# South China Sea Forum



## SinoChallenger

*U.S. Takes A Pass &#8212; For Now &#8212; On China Sea Disputes*

*The territorial disputes in the South China Seas are over, China has won*, and the U.S. couldn&#8217;t care less. But that&#8217;s not necessarily bad.

While arguments over who owns which reefs, rocks and lagoons in the South China Sea will likely drag on awhile, the U.S. is saving its powder for a more important fight: keeping vital shipping lanes free from potential interference.

*A months-long standoff over a remote reef system claimed by both China and the Philippines all but ended this weekend when the Obama administration signaled it would not intervene. That means Chinese patrol boats, which in April chased a Philippines&#8217; warship from the Scarborough Shoal, will remain there as long they want. So, too, will Chinese fishing and commercial exploration ships.*

That&#8217;s bad news for the neighbors. China has claimed virtually all of the South China Sea as its own, along with potentially huge deposits of oil, gas and other natural resources. The region includes the Spratly Islands, Scarborough Shoal and other scattered islets and shallows variously claimed by Vietnam, Malaysia, Taiwan, Indonesia and Brunei. If the U.S. won&#8217;t wade in on behalf of the Philippines, with which it shares a 60-year-old mutual defense treaty, then it sure won&#8217;t do so for anybody else. Without U.S. or other outside help, those countries will have little choice but to accept the Chinese claims, and cut whatever joint-development deals they can.

Yes, that could embolden China to make additional new demands (more on that later), but the bigger worry is whether China will use its growing air and sea power to threaten movement through the region. More than half the world&#8217;s commercial shipping passes through the South China Sea, including nearly all Mideast oil bound for Japan, South Korea, China and Southeast Asia. Just the threat of interrupting that flow could give China serious leverage in any dispute.

&#8220;The U.S. is not going to send the 7th Fleet to resolve problems with fish or coral in the South China Sea, because that is not the vital interest of the United States,&#8221; says Donald Weatherbee, fellow at the University of South Carolina&#8217;s Walker Institute of International Studies. &#8220;The vital American national interest is in freedom of navigation. (So far), China has done nothing to suggest that they are going to try to close off those waters to transit by vessels of the United States, Japan, Korea, or you name it. The minute the Chinese confronts us in that way, then it&#8217;s no longer a question of the Philippines or Indonesian national interest, it becomes a question of American national interests.&#8221;

But while Obama won&#8217;t referee competing territorial claims (urging a peaceful, diplomatic resolution &#8212; for what that&#8217;s worth), the Scarborough Shoal drama shows that such disputes won&#8217;t be cost-free for China. After meeting with Philippines President Benigno Aquino III in Washington on Friday, Obama said the U.S. will continue to build up its forces in the region, and will help allies like the Philippines do the same.

So far, the U.S. and Philippines have agreed to open the former Clark Air Base and Subic Bay naval facilities for U.S. troop rotations, port visits and training exercises; to donate two more retired U.S. Coast Guard cutters to the Philippines navy; and send radar and ocean-surveillance equipment to keep an eye on you-know-who. Although Clark and Subic were closed in the early &#8216;90s, the U.S. has kept about 600 Special Forces soldiers at a Philippines&#8217; army base in the southern part of the country for nearly a decade.

All this is part of the &#8220;re-balancing&#8221; of U.S. forces in the region. Marines are moving to Australia. The U.S. and Japan are planning joint training bases in the Marianas. Spanking-new littoral combat ships will operate out of Singapore. The U.S. insists this is unrelated to China, but of course it&#8217;s completely related.

&#8220;China is going to view this as another example of containment, no matter what the U.S. calls it,&#8221; says Jeffrey Hornung, an associate professor at the Asia-Pacific Center for Security Studies in Honolulu.

Meanwhile, China hasn&#8217;t made any friends with its handling of the Scarborough dispute. In addition to charging in with armed patrol boats and surveillance planes, it called off the visits of thousands of Chinese tourists to the Philippines, blocked imports of tens of millions of dollars of Philippines bananas, and even cancelled the highly-anticipated visit of China&#8217;s national basketball team (in poor but basketball-mad Philippines, it&#8217;s hard to know which was the harsher response).

The dispute is sure to strengthen the hand of hawks in nearby Japan, which has a China problem in its own waters. China has made strident claims to ownership of the Senkaku Islands, which it calls the Daioyu islands, ever since a Chinese fishing was seized near the islands after colliding with a Japanese coast guard cutter in 2010. Japan released the ship and crew after China responded by embargoing shipments of rare earth materials, cancelling tourist trips to Japan and arresting a handful of Japanese businessmen on spying charges. (Japan later agreed to give 10 patrol ships to the Philippines, but says that&#8217;s unrelated.)

For its part, China has played down the dispute with Japan in recent months, and has promised that it won&#8217;t interfere with anyone&#8217;s navigation rights in the South China Sea. And it would seem foolish even to try. For all its double-digit defense spending, China is still many years away from being able to challenge U.S. military power, and no doubt knows that. Nor would it seem to have much to gain; China&#8217;s economy is thoroughly dependent on sea-going trade and cutting off any shipping would mean cutting off its own, as well.

*So the U.S. is telling China it can take all the fish and oil it can grab* &#8211; but don&#8217;t try to stop any ships along the way.

U.S. Takes A Pass &#8212; For Now &#8212; On China Sea Disputes | Battleland | TIME.com


*It looks like China has taught USA a lesson about peaceful behavior* 



*Avoiding a U.S.-China War*

Relations between the United States and China are on a course that may one day lead to war. 

This month, Defense Secretary Leon Panetta announced that by 2020, 60 percent of the U.S. Navy will be deployed in the Pacific. Last November, in Australia, President Obama announced the establishment of a U.S. military base in that country, and threw down an ideological gauntlet to China with his statement that the United States will &#8220;continue to speak candidly to Beijing about the importance of upholding international norms and respecting the universal human rights of the Chinese people.&#8221;

The dangers inherent in present developments in American, Chinese and regional policies are set out in &#8220;The China Choice: Why America Should Share Power,&#8221; an important forthcoming book by the Australian international affairs expert Hugh White. As he writes, &#8220;Washington and Beijing are already sliding toward rivalry by default.&#8221; To escape this, White makes a strong argument for a &#8220;concert of powers&#8221; in Asia, as the best &#8212; and perhaps only &#8212; way that this looming confrontation can be avoided. The economic basis of such a U.S.-China agreement is indeed already in place.

The danger of conflict does not stem from a Chinese desire for global leadership. Outside East Asia, Beijing is sticking to a very cautious policy, centered on commercial advantage without military components, in part because Chinese leaders realize that it would take decades and colossal naval expenditure to allow them to mount a global challenge to the United States, and that even then they would almost certainly fail.

In East Asia, things are very different. *For most of its history, China has dominated the region. When it becomes the largest economy on earth, it will certainly seek to do so. While China cannot build up naval forces to challenge the United States in distant oceans, it would be very surprising if in future it will not be able to generate missile and air forces sufficient to deny the U.S. Navy access to the seas around China. *Moreover, China is engaged in territorial disputes with other states in the region over island groups &#8212; disputes in which Chinese popular nationalist sentiments have become heavily engaged.

With communism dead, the Chinese administration has relied very heavily &#8212; and successfully &#8212; on nationalism as an ideological support for its rule. The problem is that if clashes erupt over these islands, Beijing may find itself in a position where it cannot compromise without severe damage to its domestic legitimacy &#8212; very much the position of the European great powers in 1914.

In these disputes, Chinese nationalism collides with other nationalisms &#8212; particularly that of Vietnam, which embodies strong historical resentments. The hostility to China of Vietnam and most of the other regional states is at once America&#8217;s greatest asset and greatest danger. It means that most of China&#8217;s neighbors want the United States to remain militarily present in the region. As White argues, even if the United States were to withdraw, it is highly unlikely that these countries would submit meekly to Chinese hegemony.

But if the United States were to commit itself to a military alliance with these countries against China, Washington would risk embroiling America in their territorial disputes. In the event of a military clash between Vietnam and China, Washington would be faced with the choice of either holding aloof and seeing its credibility as an ally destroyed, or fighting China.

Neither the United States nor China would &#8220;win&#8221; the resulting war outright, but they would certainly inflict catastrophic damage on each other and on the world economy. If the conflict escalated into a nuclear exchange, modern civilization would be wrecked. Even a prolonged period of military and strategic rivalry with an economically mighty China will gravely weaken America&#8217;s global position. Indeed, U.S. overstretch is already apparent &#8212; for example in Washington&#8217;s neglect of the crumbling states of Central America.

To avoid this, *White&#8217;s suggested East Asian order would establish red lines that the United States and China would both agree not to cross &#8212; most notably a guarantee not to use force without the other&#8217;s permission, or in clear self-defense. Most sensitively of all, while China would have to renounce the use of force against Taiwan, Washington would most probably have to publicly commit itself to the reunification of Taiwan with China.

Equally important, China would have to acknowledge the legitimacy of the U.S. presence in East Asia, since this is desired by other East Asian states, and the United States would have to acknowledge the legitimacy of China&#8217;s existing political order, since it has brought economic breakthrough and greatly enhanced real freedoms to the people of China.* Under such a concert, U.S. statements like those of President Obama in support of China&#8217;s democratization would have to be jettisoned.

As White argues, such a concert of power between the United States, China and regional states would be so difficult to arrange that &#8220;it would hardly be worth considering if the alternatives were not so bad.&#8221; But as his book brings out with chilling force, the alternatives may well be catastrophic. 

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/13/opinion/avoiding-a-us-china-war.html


*Good, now we have "peace in our time."*

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## SinoChallenger

June 11 is victory for China day. Thanks to our new Supreme Leader Xi Jinping, Beijing grew some balls and wielded the PLA like a mighty sword to decapitate our enemies.

There is enough oil and gas in the South China Sea to make every single Chinese as rich as Saudi or Brunei citizens! Now nobody can stop us from taking our spoils of war. Of course, we can share with our allies, but never with dirty nations like Vietnam and Philippines.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## lem34

SinoChallenger said:


> June 11 is victory for China day. There is enough oil and gas in the South China Sea to make every single Chinese as rich as Saudi or Brunei citizens! Now nobody can stop us from taking our spoils of war. Of course, we can share with our allies, but never with dirty nations like Vietnam and Philippines.



Congrats SC. What about dirty/clean Indians??

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## SinoChallenger

Aryan_B said:


> Congrats SC. What about dirty/clean Indians??


Their turn is coming. We have not forgotten about Southern Tibet.

India provoking conflict: China | DAWN.COM

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## curioususer

SinoChallenger said:


> *There is enough oil and gas in the South China Sea to make every single Chinese as rich as Saudi or Brunei citizens!* Now nobody can stop us from taking our spoils of war. Of course, we can share with our allies, but never with dirty nations like Vietnam and Philippines.



if that was the case, china would have been like that a long time ago.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## lem34

SinoChallenger said:


> Their turn is coming. We have not forgotten about Southern Tibet.
> 
> India provoking conflict: China | DAWN.COM



I look forward to peace coming to our neighbourhood

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## SXNJ

So the U.S. is telling China it can take all the fish and oil it can grab &#8211; but don&#8217;t try to stop any ships along the way.

===================================
What we need is just oil and fish

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## OrionHunter

SinoChallenger said:


> *It looks like China has taught USA a lesson about peaceful behavior*


Oh really?  It looks nothing like it. *China can't teach lessons in 'peaceful behavior' to anyone seeing its 'unpeaceful behavior' towards nations such as :

Vietnam
Taiwan
Japan
Indonesia
Philippines
India
Australia
USA
Malaysia
Brunei*

Practice what you preach!

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## curioususer

SinoChallenger said:


> Their turn is coming. We have not forgotten about Southern Tibet.
> 
> India provoking conflict: China | DAWN.COM



 from a cheer leading country's website. are there any similar reports from any neutral countries?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## skyknight

OrionHunter said:


> Oh really?  It looks nothing like it. *China can't teach lessons in 'peaceful behavior' to anyone seeing its 'unpeaceful behavior' towards nations such as :
> 
> Vietnam
> Taiwan
> Japan
> Indonesia
> Philippines
> India
> Australia
> USA
> Malaysia
> Brunei*
> 
> Practice what you preach!


List as many countries as you can&#65292;if it can make you feel better&#12290;
I suggest you copy country names from here

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## jbond197

So when is China invading all the countries in East asia?

Aparently, China will need to take American permission before involving in any misadventures there



> White&#8217;s suggested East Asian order would establish red lines that the United States and China would both agree not to cross &#8212; most notably a guarantee not to use force without the other&#8217;s permission, or in clear self-defense.
> 
> Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...na-seas-over-china-has-won.html#ixzz1xgRuX4R2



Another interesting piece from the article



> This month, Defense Secretary Leon Panetta announced that by 2020, 60 percent of the U.S. Navy will be deployed in the Pacific. Last November, in Australia, President Obama announced the establishment of a U.S. military base in that country, and threw down an ideological gauntlet to China with his statement that the United States will &#8220;continue to speak candidly to Beijing about the importance of upholding international norms and respecting the universal human rights of the Chinese people.&#8221;
> 
> Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...na-seas-over-china-has-won.html#ixzz1xgSqKgIB


Tells the real story, now isn't it?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## T-Rex

SinoChallenger said:


> June 11 is victory for China day. Thanks to our new Supreme Leader Xi Jinping, Beijing grew some balls and wielded the PLA like a mighty sword to decapitate our enemies.
> 
> There is enough oil and gas in the South China Sea to make every single Chinese as rich as Saudi or Brunei citizens! Now nobody can stop us from taking our spoils of war. Of course, we can share with our allies, but never with dirty nations like Vietnam and Philippines.


*
It's also a victory for the friends of China. I've always said that the US never had the guts to face a powerful adversary, it chooses weak nations to intimidate. There's a lesson in it for Hu Jin Tao and Wen too. My congratulations to Xi Jinping!*

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## T-Rex

OrionHunter said:


> Oh really?  It looks nothing like it. *China can't teach lessons in 'peaceful behavior' to anyone seeing its 'unpeaceful behavior' towards nations such as :
> 
> Vietnam
> Taiwan
> Japan
> Indonesia
> Philippines
> India
> Australia
> USA
> Malaysia
> Brunei*
> 
> Practice what you preach!


*
Do we see india behaving peacefully with its neighbours? We know the answer first hand, so I would advise you to practice what you are trying to teach China. At least China doesn't use its intelligence services to rig elections for her allies in the neighbouring states, it doesn't install puppet regime to secure its hegemony over its neighbours. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about.*

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Ammyy

Aryan_B said:


> Congrats SC. What about *dirty/clean Indians*??



I dnt know how can low life like you become elite member here 



Aryan_B said:


> I look forward to *peace coming to our neighbourhood*





> China will use its growing air and sea power to *threaten movement* through the region.



Peace coming throw threatening small neighbours ???? You want same here ????

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## SinoChallenger

T-Rex said:


> *
> It's also a victory for the friends of China. I've always said that the US never had the guts to face a powerful adversary, it chooses weak nations to intimidate. There's a lesson in it for Hu Jin Tao and Wen too. My congratulations to Xi Jinping!*


Exactly! When you accept a weak and inferior position and try to kiss up to the West like a trusting child, you get heckled and called a "dictator" like Wen.











LOL Wen got schooled at Cambridge. He can put that on his CV.

But when you stand strong and proud, the enemy's arrogance is shattered and he moves on to weaker targets. It's the typical behavior of a schoolyard bully 







Never forget what our Chairman Mao taught us!  USA imperialism is a paper tiger!

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Ammyy

T-Rex said:


> *
> Do we see india behaving peacefully with its neighbours? We know the answer first hand, so I would advise you to practice what you are trying to teach China. At least China doesn't use its intelligence services to rig elections for her allies in the neighbouring states, it doesn't install puppet regime to secure its hegemony over its neighbours. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about.*



Then who save you ????


----------



## Rechoice

> Good, now we have "peace in our time."


 
wet dream of Dr. Magatons. 
Uncle Sam win, he will turn back to region with 60% Navy Forces to be deploy in next years. China got a headache now.




SinoChallenger said:


> June 11 is victory for China day. Thanks to our new Supreme Leader Xi Jinping, Beijing grew some balls and wielded the PLA like a mighty sword to decapitate our enemies.
> 
> There is enough oil and gas in the South China Sea to make every single Chinese as rich as Saudi or Brunei citizens! Now nobody can stop us from taking our spoils of war. Of course, we can share with our allies, but never with dirty nations like Vietnam and Philippines.



Ìf China invade in to other countries EZZ, necessary action shall be done to stop d&#7881;rty chinese aggressors.



SXNJ said:


> So the U.S. is telling China it can take all the fish and oil it can grab  but dont try to stop any ships along the way.
> 
> ===================================
> What we need is just oil and fish



It belong to others, no one let you rob it.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Rechoice

T-Rex said:


> *
> It's also a victory for the friends of China. I've always said that the US never had the guts to face a powerful adversary, it chooses weak nations to intimidate. There's a lesson in it for Hu Jin Tao and Wen too. My congratulations to Xi Jinping!*



Hey, false flag chinese guy. It's nothing related to victory òf china, it's shameful bullying action of uneducated Chinese.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

Oh Uncle Sam is afraid! 





Taiwanese animation

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## kkacer

China can easily win because Philiphine is a small country


----------



## scorpionx

China won!!!! wow, here comes the great self obsessed self satisfied self declared first boy of pdf class

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## OrionHunter

T-Rex said:


> Do we see india behaving peacefully with its neighbours? We know the answer first hand, so *I would advise you to practice what you are trying to teach China. At least China doesn't use its intelligence services to rig elections for her allies in the neighbouring states, it doesn't install puppet regime to secure its hegemony over its neighbours. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about.*


Idiotic reply! Clutching at straws, as usual. Your straw-man arguments aren't even funny anymore.

How does INDIA come in here? I thought we were talking about *China* giving *'lessons' in 'peace' to America?* It seems you get an orgasm of sorts every time you mention 'India'. 

Stop acting like an adopted Chinese surrogate to please a few yahoos here for some brownie points. It makes you look silly!

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## T-Rex

OrionHunter said:


> Idiotic reply! Clutching at straws, as usual. Your straw-man arguments aren't even funny anymore.
> 
> How does INDIA come in here? I thought we were talking about *China* giving *'lessons' in 'peace' to America?* It seems you get an orgasm of sorts every time you mention 'India'.
> 
> Stop acting like an adopted Chinese surrogate to please a few yahoos here for some brownie points. It makes you look silly!



*Your anger induced orgasm is quite interesting. Before lecturing China about peaceful bahaviour lecture your own country because your country isn't really a shining example of what you expect from China!*



Rechoice said:


> Hey, false flag chinese guy. It's nothing related to victory òf china, it's shameful bullying action of uneducated Chinese.


*
You're actually CIA men posing as Vietnamese, aren't you? Perhaps that's why you see everybody else in the same light.*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## OrionHunter

T-Rex said:


> You're actually CIA men posing as Vietnamese, aren't you? Perhaps that's why you see everybody else in the same light.


And you're actually a Talibani posing as a Bangladeshi. Perhaps that's why you see everybody else in the same light.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Thomas

SinoChallenger said:


> Never forget what our Chairman Mao taught us!  USA imperialism is a paper tiger!





Actually China has done the US a great favor. It's actions have opened the door for a bigger US presence in the region and the renewed the use of military bases in the Phillipines. Thank you China! 

Now start actually attacking our allies in the region instead chest thumping from planting flags on deserted atols with no defenders. And you might find out how paper tiger the US is. Remember to Obama will most likely be out of office in about 7 months.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## SinoChallenger

Let us further examine USA's surrender documents 

*Rough sea: The U.S. should stay clear of Scarborough Shoal*

June 14, 2012 12:27 am Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

The United States has occasional conflicting interests in the Pacific region, and one of them right now is where to stand in the scrap between the Philippines and China over the Scarborough Shoal.

The shoal is an area of reefs and rocks in the South China Sea, named after a 1784 shipwreck, to which both China and the Philippines lay claim. The bits of rock sticking up above the surface of the sea are uninhabited and uninhabitable, although sporadic efforts have been made to put shacks on them. The countries' real interest lies in the fish and possible undersea oil and gas that may be in the region.

The Philippines has been an ally of the United States in the Pacific. This is a point that Philippines President Benigno S. Aquino III made during a visit with President Barack Obama last week at the White House. He is seeking U.S. support in his country's competition with China for possession of the Scarborough Shoal, which the Filipinos call Panatag and the Chinese call Huangyan.

Mr. Aquino's pitch was also aimed at the American president's recent affirmation that the United States is now making a "pivot" to Asia, away from Europe, the Middle East and South Asia -- a message also delivered by Secretary of Defense Leon E. Panetta in a recent trip he made to the region.

The United States, however, does not need a new conflict with China that would require military and financial resources, particularly with the Afghanistan War not yet over and the U.S. domestic scene in need of attention. The Chinese have signaled their point of view, that a maritime dispute in the South China Sea is, in the words of Gen. Ma Xiaotian, deputy chief of staff of the People's Liberation Army, "not America's business."

It might be tempting for Mr. Obama, in the midst of a campaign, or the Pentagon, looking to protect its budget in the face of cuts, to respond to Gen. Ma's challenge, but it is much more sensible to look the other way. For the United States to confront the Chinese over some rocks sticking out of the South China Sea, even at the behest of the Philippines, makes no sense.

Rough sea: The U.S. should stay clear of Scarborough Shoal - Pittsburgh Post-Gazette


----------



## Ammyy

T-Rex said:


> *Your anger induced orgasm is quite interesting. Before lecturing China about peaceful bahaviour lecture your own country because your country isn't really a shining example of what you expect from China!*
> 
> 
> *
> You're actually CIA men posing as Vietnamese, aren't you? Perhaps that's why you see everybody else in the same light.*



I think you looks great supporter of Chinese policy for her neighbours ???? 

I think India should also start to follow these policy


----------



## Esc8781

Thomas said:


> Actually China has done the US a great favor. It's actions have opened the door for a bigger US presence in the region and the renewed the use of military bases in the Phillipines. Thank you China!
> 
> Now start actually attacking our allies in the region instead chest thumping from planting flags on deserted atols with no defenders. And you might find out how paper tiger the US is. Remember to Obama will most likely be out of office in about 7 months.


 Eww and you will vote for Mitt Romney sorry to say this, but I rather Obama more man.


----------



## SinoChallenger

*Let us continue our survey of USA's surrender documents* 

*Obama's Asia 'Bluff'*

When a leading expert on military affairs recently told a Brookings Institution meeting that President Obama&#8217;s much-touted pivot to Asia was &#8220;a bluff,&#8221; I considered the statement way off the mark. But since then, I have concluded that there is indeed less to Obama&#8217;s grand change in strategy than meets the eye. In fact, the pivot makes little sense. This suggests that one ought to look for domestic explanations.

The media points to the drawdown of American troops in the Middle East (particularly in Iraq and Afghanistan) and their increase in the Far East as exhibit one of the realignment of American military forces called for by the pivot. Actually, the new commitment to Asia is minuscule. The press refers to new deployment of 2,500 Marines in the region, but only 250 troops have actually arrived to date. The remainder are not expected to arrive for years. Furthermore, even when in full force&#8212;some say ten years from now&#8212;the Marines will add little to the 55,442 troops already stationed in the Asia-Pacific region at the end of last year, mostly in Japan (36,708), Guam (4,272) and afloat (13,618).

Defense Secretary Leon Panetta announced in early June that there also will be a shift in U.S. naval forces. While until now the United States has divided its warships roughly equally between the Atlantic and the Pacific, the Pacific will now host 60 percent of the fleet, albeit of a smaller fleet.

However, Panetta stressed that it will &#8220;take years for these concepts, and many of the investments we are making, to be fully realized.&#8221; There also will be more frequent visits by the American warships in Asian ports, and some ships will be berthed in Singapore, which is sure to delight the sailors and some local professionals but otherwise not matter much.

More significant is the question of what role these forces will play in the region. Obviously, our troops&#8212;even as augmented with a few Marines&#8212;are not meant to engage in any forthcoming military confrontation with China, with its constantly expanding and increasingly modernized army consisting of 2,285,000 active troops.

Nor is there any sign that China seeks a military confrontation with the United States. Although China&#8217;s military capacity is expanding, even the most hawkish American observers do not think China could stage such a confrontation for at least a decade. Moreover, that the Marines will be located 2,600 miles away from China reveals they are not meant to serve as a tripwire, which would entail placing them on the beaches of Taiwan or at the island chains contested in the South China Sea.

Military analysts will argue that these moves are not meant to provide a substantial realignment of military assets but rather to send a message. But as moviemaker Samuel Goldwyn famously quipped, &#8220;If you want to send a message, use Western Union.&#8221; Using troops does send a message&#8212;but is it one we wish to send?

Both Henry Kissinger and Zbigniew Brzezinski strongly favored heightened U.S. attempts to engage China as a partner in maintaining global order and urged &#8220;co-evolution&#8221; with China rather than attempts to contain it. There remains plenty of time to turn to military moves if China refuses to become a responsible stakeholder in the international order. True, China has made several rather assertive claims in the South China Sea, but these have almost uniformly involved laying claims as a starting point for negotiations. The United States may feel that it ought to support countries close to China, such as Vietnam, Malaysia and the Philippines, so that they will not risk being bullied by the rising global power. However, this can be accomplished through treaties, trade and aid without resorting to the present U.S. strategy of militarizing the conflict.

Why then the military &#8220;pivot to Asia&#8221;? It does make sense as one part of an election-year campaign, designed to deprive the GOP of one of its favorite and winning claims: that Democrats are weak on foreign policy. The more American voters concentrate on the Far East&#8212;in which no war looms and we can act as tough as we want without facing short-term consequences or exorbitant expenditures&#8212;the more they might be distracted from the shambles in Afghanistan and the resurgence of Al Qaeda in Yemen and Somalia. Hence, the better the world looks.

Mitt Romney&#8217;s hawkish statements about China and Russia suggest the Democrats are not the only ones seeking to play this card. Both sides should note, though, that the message is being received. China is likely to respond in kind by further accelerating its military buildup and repositioning some of its own forces. Indeed, it may well deepen its already considerable military ties with Pakistan. The notion that the United States could bankrupt China by involving it in an arms race, as Reagan did to speed the disintegration of the Soviet Union, is fanciful given that the United States is in more dire economic straits than is China and that China can invest in next-generation cyber weapons, space arms and antiship missiles without straining its economy.

It might be too much to hope that the Chinese authorities will understand the role domestic politics plays in our foreign policy. But one can rest assured that events in the Middle East&#8212;in Iran, Pakistan, Syria and Afghanistan&#8212;will remind us soon where the true front lines are.

_Amitai Etzioni served as a senior advisor to the Carter White House; taught at Columbia University, Harvard and The University of California at Berkeley; and is a university professor and professor of international relations at The George Washington University._

Commentary: Obama's Asia 'Bluff' | The National Interest

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## SinoChallenger

*Continuing our survey of our enemy's instrument of surrender* 

*Aquino recalls two ships from shoal*

MANILA: Philippine President Benigno Aquino has ordered the pullout of two vessels from the disputed Scarborough Shoal in the South China Sea, a top government official reported on Saturday.

gulftoday.ae | Aquino recalls two ships from shoal




*Despite the Philippines' submission to China's superpower. China state-owned newspaper continued to humiliate the Pinoys.*

*Philippines not that important to US*

Philippine President Benigno Aquino III, who just returned from the United States, gladly participated in the country's 114th Independence Day celebration. Much to his surprise, many Philippine people participated in street protests condemning U.S. intervention in their countrys internal affairs, with hundreds of them fighting with riot police near the U.S. embassy in the country.

The protests show the Philippines' mixed attitude toward the United States. The Philippine government seeks to cooperate with the United States in preventing China's "southward expansion," without considering the interests of the Philippine people. Heaps of rotting bananas, a sharp decline in the number of Chinese tourists, and the indefinite postponement of Yao Ming and his basketball teams friendly games in the Philippines do not bode well for the Philippine people who work hard to make a living.

Aquino has lost his face. He hoped that the United States could lend the Philippines a helping hand in the South China Sea issue according to the 1951 Philippines-U.S. mutual defense treaty, and the Philippines would then give the United States a foothold it needs to return to Asia. However, both U.S. President Barack Obama and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton failed to satisfy his desire.

It is not that the United States is no longer seeking to contain China, or Chinese diplomats have persuaded the U.S. government to stay out of the South China Sea issue. It is just that China, the Philippines, and the United States view the issue in different ways.

China claims sovereignty over the South China Sea, but does not reject jointly developing the disputed sea with neighboring countries. The Philippines claims an exclusive economic zone (EEZ) of 200 nautical miles from its coastline in the sea according to the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea. The United States sees the South China Sea as international waters with fuzzy sovereignty, and wants to ensure peace and the freedom of navigation in the sea for its merchant ships and warships. The superpower considers the standoff between China and the Philippines over a disputed land to be a small matter. 

Despite some differences over the sovereignty issue, China and the United States both seek to ensure peace in the entire sea, and have more common ground than the Philippines and the United States. Washington is clearly aware that China can play a far more important role than the Philippines in helping realize its global strategy. It needs China's support in a variety of issues such as the Iranian and North Korean nuclear issues.

The future of the South China Sea mainly depends on China and the United States. A visible trend is that the sea is becoming increasingly less peaceful. China's development requires smooth economic arteries and abundant resources, and there is an obvious strategic conflict between China and the United States in the South China Sea due to the country's "return to Asia" strategy. However, a peaceful South China Sea also serves the interests of all parties concerned.

The Philippines and other countries concerned will have to make a crucial choice in the coming period between actively participating in resolving the South China Sea through negotiations and continuing to confront China.

Philippines not that important to US - People's Daily Online


----------



## anon45




----------



## Rechoice

*US to help Philippines with radar: Pentagon*


WASHINGTON: The US military said on Tuesday it plans to provide a land-based radar to the Philippines, as the country faces an escalating dispute with China over territorial rights off its shore.

The radar would form part of a &#8220;watch center&#8221; to help track ships off the island nation&#8217;s coast line, a Pentagon spokeswoman said.

&#8220;We are in the initial planning stages of assisting the Philippines with a National Coast Watch Center,&#8221; Major Catherine Wilkinson told AFP.

&#8220;This center will improve their maritime domain awareness of a breadth of security issues including counter proliferation of WMD (weapons of mass destruction) to countering illegal smuggling,&#8221; she said.

The cost and the time line for the project were still being worked out, she said.

Plans to provide a powerful radar to the Philippines came after Philippine President Benigno Aquino paid a visit last week to the White House, where he was offered a robust show of support.

Manila has asked for the radar system and other military assistance to bolster its position in a row with Beijing over the Scarborough Shoal, which lies near the main Philippine island of Luzon.

China claims the area along with virtually all of the South China Sea up to the shores of other Southeast Asian nations, including Malaysia, Vietnam and the Philippines.

The move reflects Washington&#8217;s strategic shift towards Asia amid a growing rivalry with Beijing, with the South China Sea at the center of the contest, analysts said.

&#8220;Land-based radar is one of the practical ways the United States can simultaneously boost Philippine defense capabilities and signal Washington&#8217;s long-term commitment to Asia,&#8221; said Patrick Cronin, senior adviser for Asia at the Center for a New American Security, a Washington think tank.

China may choose to defuse tensions just before a gathering of the 10-member Association of Southeast Asian Nations next month, Cronin said.

&#8220;But it is also possible that China is determined to humiliate the Philippines and, indirectly, the United States,&#8221; he told AFP.

The Philippines has also expressed interest in patrol vessels and aircraft to help monitor the vast waters off its coast, where the Chinese have sent ships to assert their territorial claims.

It was unlikely the United States would look at providing military aircraft at a time when China may be preparing a conciliatory gesture, Cronin said.

&#8220;*If China persists with embarrassing the Philippines, then I have no doubt aircraft sales will follow,*&#8221; he said.

US to help Philippines with radar: Pentagon - thenews.com.pk

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Esc8781

anon45 said:


>


 That guy in the video just died June 4, 2012


----------



## kalu_miah

Rechoice said:


> Hey, false flag chinese guy. It's nothing related to victory òf china, it's shameful bullying action of uneducated Chinese.



Rechoice bro, this T-Rex guy may be from Bangladesh, because his anti-India sentiment is right-on and it seems he knows about internal situation in Bangladesh. But it is obvious that he is a shameless blind supporter of China, which is not correct Bangladeshi viewpoint in my opinion. Any Bangladeshi would support Bangladesh interest first, not China interest forgetting the multi-dimensional aspect of Bangladesh national interest. Having said that China is an ally and friendly nation to Bangladesh, there is no doubt about that. Although in my personal opinion, for our long term future, we would rather stand with ASEAN or ASEAN+, which we want to become a part of. China is not in a position to offer us that kind of close relationship.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## anon45

Esc8781 said:


> That guy in the video just died June 4, 2012


 
May he rest in peace, his work has been one of the finest troll detectors on the internet.


----------



## SinoChallenger

Now our enemies are fighting among themselves after being humiliated by China

Australia Network News:Stories:'Australians out': Philippines activists fight military visits

*'Australians out': Philippines activists fight military visits*

Australia is caught in a political row in the Philippines over American forces in Asia and the Pacific.

Anti-war and civil society groups in the Philippines are campaigning against the renewal of a military agreement with Australia.

But the country's senate leader has warned that with China flexing its muscle, now is not the time to block Australian forces.

The Visiting Forces Agreement, or VFA, with Australia goes before the Philippines senate next mnnth for a final vote on ratification.

Philippines non-government organisations see the agreement with Australia as part of a US-led military build-up in the Asian region, and plan to stage a protest outside the Australian embassy in Manila later this week.

The protesters point out - as recently announced - that America plans to station about 60 per cent of its war fleet in the Asian region by 2020.

Agreements on big US bases in the Philippines were revoked after the fall of dictator Ferdinand Marcos.

However, activist groups say since then Philippines governments have used the VFAs to effectively re-base significant US military forces there.

Corazon Fabros, lead convenor of the Stop the War Coalition in the Philippines, told Radio Australia's Asia Pacific program: "The presence of foreign troops in our country does not help in terms of maintaining peace and security."

She claims the Philippines constitution prohibits a US armed presence.

The coalition says joint military exercises are bad for local communities because they generate prostitution and sexual abuse of women.

Also, "we've had many experiences with the United States forces of injuries and damage to properties," Ms Fabros said.

"We feel that the VFA has been a way for the United States and our government to get around the prohibition against the presence of US troops in our country."

Overseas forces, she said. are not bound by local laws. "We've had a very controversial experience in the recent past, of the rape of a Filipina by a US marine.

"That had been a classic example of how a US soldier has been treated and privileged, if they commit a crime on Philippine soil."

The Philippines senate will be considering the issue of the VFA with Australia at the end of July.

Senate president Juan Ponce Enrile has warned that now is not the time to abandon the VFA with Australia - especially given China's muscle-flexing in the South China Sea.

Ms Fabros said the "China question" is often trotted out as a justification.

"We are definitely against using our territory for the training and military exercises," she told Radio Australia.

"We're not at war with any country, we need to uphold the Philippine constitution. We need strong allies, far beyond being used as military training ground and the rest and recreation of foreign troops.

"The Philippines should develop strong diplomatic ties with other countries, especially with its neighbouring nations, around Asia and the Pacific, to forge cooperation.

"We need to maintain our friendly relations, our independence, our neutrality."

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ViXuyen

Since there are so many threads in this forum regarding the Spratly Island issue, I would like to dedicate a thread to posting pictures & videos about these islands so people can have a feel of what these islands are about and the life and activities revolved around these islands. Credits go to those who took and captured these pictures and videos as I do not possess them.


Len Dao island 







An Bang island







Truong Sa Lon island







Phan Vinh island







Co Lin island







Nam Yet island







Thuyen Chai island







Nui Le island

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## ViXuyen

Da Lat island







Son Ca island







Da Lon island







Song Tu Tay island

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## S10

Most "islands" in South China Sea are simply rocks with structures built on top of them by countries with competing claims to demonstrate sovereignty and control. Vast majority do not have fresh water supply. Most of these structures were built after 1980's when disputes began to heat up. Currently Vietnam holds about 40 islands in the area. Philippines has 9 and China has 7. In terms of number of ships deployed and patrolling in the region, China has more ships than all other claimants put together. If the area wasn't a potential flashpoint, the opportunity for tourism would be immense due to lack of pollution.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

Only in the islands of Song T&#7917; Tây, Nam Y&#7871;t and Tr&#432;&#7901;ng Sa there are Vietnamese civilians living there?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ViXuyen

Trips to the islands

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vskfK50GZEo&feature=player_embedded
Chùa trên qu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeuBwScJN7Q&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hbpx1WoOiXI&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1dg1YqZwBw&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5K22Sb6MYk&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpmyUgEqd_E&feature=player_embedded

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

*A ceramic Vietnam's flag on the Truong Sa archipelago (12.4 x 25m):*

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## ViXuyen

Truong Sa Lon (this island has natural fresh water)

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

*Vietnamese citizens born in the island communes under Spratly Islands District, Khanh Hoa Province:*

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

*The pagodas on Tr&#432;&#7901;ng Sa Islands (Spratlys), Khánh Hoà province, 
Vi&#7879;t Nam:*















A Pagoda on Song T&#7917; Tây island commune, Tr&#432;&#7901;ng Sa Islands District, Khánh Hòa Province:

.............................................................................................................................















A Pagoda on Tr&#432;&#7901;ng Sa l&#7899;n island town, Tr&#432;&#7901;ng Sa Islands District, Khánh Hòa Province:

..............................................................................................................................










A Pagoda on Sinh T&#7891;n island commune, Tr&#432;&#7901;ng Sa Islands District, Khánh Hòa Province:

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## shuttler

*How can we be so kind to all these illegal immigrants?*

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## EastSea

shuttler said:


> *How can we be so kind to all these illegal immigrants?*



*Sea pirates don't have right to talk about our Islamds*

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## LetsGetRowdy

Those Latin alphabets look so out of place. Vietnam should revert back to beautiful Chu Nom.


----------



## ahfatzia

I actually feel sorry for these people living in the smallest of the shoals, constantly facing the dangerous elements of nature. I also hope they are volunteered to move there and getting good incentives instead of ordered by the government.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## dunhill

ahfatzia said:


> I actually feel sorry for these people living in the smallest of the shoals, constantly facing the dangerous elements of nature. I also hope they are volunteered to move there and getting good incentives instead of ordered by the government.



Actually, if China does not poke its noses around on these Islands then their lives are pretty *SAVE*. Don't you think?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ahfatzia

dunhill said:


> Actually, if China does not poke its noses around on these Islands then their lives are pretty *SAVE*. Don't you think?




How can I argue with a man of words.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Alchemy

It appears most appropriate that Spartly Islands should belong to Khánh Hoà province of vietnam or atleast status quo is maintained !!

Nice pics by the way

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Viet

*200-year-old manuscript on Spratly Islands found*
TUOITRE Updated : Sat, August 27, 2011,10:57 AM (GMT+0700)





_The manuscript documenting a funeral oration for soldiers based in Spratly Islands 200 years ago
Photo: Tuoitre_


A Quang Ngai official has found a manuscript honoring the deceased soldiers based in the Spratly Islands, kept by a family in Tinh Long commune, Son Tinh district for the last 200 years.

The manuscript documented a funeral oration for deceased soldiers deployed by the Nguyen Dynasty to the Spratly Islands two centuries ago, he said.

88-year-old Diep Cong Thang, owner of the manuscript, said it was copied down from the original version by his father, a priest who passed away 60 years ago.

Nguyen Dang Vu, head of the provincial culture department said he had discovered four similar manuscripts on Ly Son island, but it was the first time this document was discovered in the mainland.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## ChinaToday

With coloured banners, saluting soldiers and the national anthem playing loud and clear, China threw a birthday party yesterday for its newest city - on a tiny island in the very middle of the disputed South China Sea.
Sansha City is on Yongxing Island, less than a square mile in size and not big enough to accommodate its own airstrip - which extends into the sea either side.
It has a small permanent population of fishermen - the rest of its 1,000 residents are police, soldiers and government workers who work on the island in 'tours of duty'.






There are few 'civilian' buildings - a supermarket here, a hospital there - and fresh water has to be shipped in from China's southernmost province in a 13-hour supply mission.
But China is clearly proud of its new addition, and made a point that the world knew of its arrival.
Unlike most birthday parties, though, the neighbours were not invited. 

That is because Sansha City represents China's expanding toehold in the world's most disputed waters, portions of which are also claimed by Vietnam, the Philippines and Taiwan

Beijing has created the city administration to oversee hundreds of thousands of square miles of water where it wants to strengthen its control.
The Philippines said it does not recognise the city or its jurisdiction, and Vietnam said China's actions violated international law. The U.S. has also voiced its concern over 'unilateral moves' in the South China Sea, where it says collective diplomacy is needed to resolve competing claims.
Yongxing Island, formerly Woody Island, is 220 miles southeast from China's tropical Hainan Island






Even the name of the island is disputed among its neighbours - Vietnam refers to it as Phu Lam Island.
China approved Sansha City to 'consolidate administration' over the Paracel island chain, of which Yongxing is a part, and the nearby Spratly island chain and the Macclesfield Bank - a large, completely submerged atoll that boasts rich fishing grounds that is also claimed by Taiwan and the Philippines.
Vietnam and China both claim the Paracels, and both would have to slug it out with the Philippines, Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan to claim all or parts of the Spratlys.
China claims virtually the entire South China Sea and its island groups, and its disputes occasionally erupt into open confrontation. 

And it's not just for the good fishing. The sea is one of the world's busiest commercial shipping lanes, and sits on a potential mother load of oil and gas deposits.
Official broadcaster China Central Television aired Tuesday morning's formal establishment ceremony live from Sansha, with speeches from the new mayor and other officials.
Plaques for the Sansha Municipal Government and the Sansha Municipal Committee of the Communist Party of China were unveiled on a white-columned government building.
Mayor Xiao Jie trumpeted Sansha's important role in protecting China's sovereignty. He said the designation of Sansha as a new city was 'a wise decision made by the party and the government of China to protect the sovereign rights of China, and to strengthen the protection and the development of natural resources'.
The official Xinhua News Agency reported earlier that Sansha's jurisdiction covers just five square miles of land, including other islands and atolls in the South China Sea around Yongxing.
Crucially, the jurisdiction also covers more than 750,000 square miles of surrounding waters.

Yongxing translates to 'eternal prosperity', and Sansha means 'three sandbanks' - an apparent reference to the Chinese names for the disputed island chains and atoll - West, South and Middle Banks (or Xisha, Nansha and Zhongsha).
A description from a former People's Liberation Army officer who was among the officials overseeing the island before Sansha was established paints a picture of a harsh and isolated post where officials rotate staffing for a month at a time.

Tan Xiankun, director of the office in Hainan overseeing Xisha and other South China Sea territories, said: 'The living conditions are pretty simple. It's very humid and hot, more than 30 degrees, and there's salt everywhere. There's no fresh water, except for what's shipped in and what's collected from rain water.'
Philippines Department of Foreign Affairs spokesman Raul Hernandez said Manila had expressed its concern and registered a strong protest with Beijing over the decision to set up






He said: 'The Philippines does not recognise the Sansha City and the extent of its jurisdiction, and considers recent measures taken by China as unacceptable.
Vietnam's Foreign Ministry spokesman, Luong Thanh Nghi, said Vietnam had protested to the Chinese foreign ministry as well.
A statement said: 'China's establishment of the so-called Sansha City violated international law, seriously violating Vietnam sovereignty over the Paracel and Spratly archipelagos.'
And U.S. State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland said: 'We remain concerned should there be any unilateral moves of this kind that would seem to prejudge an issue that we have said repeatedly can only be solved by negotiations, by dialogue and by a collaborative diplomatic process among all the claimants.'
As China was celebrating its new city, the International Crisis Group think tank released a report saying that the south China Sea was becoming an arena that could easily see armed conflict.
Its report stated: 'South East Asian claimants, with Vietnam and the Philippines in the forefront, are now more forcefully defending their claims - and enlisting outside allies - with considerable energy.'
The 'outside allies' is a clear reference to Washington's move to influence the Asian balance of power by supporting China's neighbours.
The report ominously concluded that 'tensions in the South China Sea 


Read more: China celebrates 'birthday' of Sansha, a new city at the heart of disputed South China Sea (of course, the neighbours weren't invited) | Mail Online

So beautiful and happy birthday to our new city

Reactions: Like Like:
11


----------



## ahfatzia

*The Philippines said it does not recognise the city or its jurisdiction, and Vietnam said China's actions violated international law. The U.S. has also voiced its concern over 'unilateral moves' in the South China Sea, where it says collective diplomacy is needed to resolve competing claims.*


Congratulations to the new city of Sansha and wish you peace and prosperous. 

A good move by China to tell the crybabies above they can not always get what they want. There's no need for international recognitions to build your own city, I don't think.

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## faithfulguy

BEIJING (AP)  China's newest city is a tiny and remote island in the South China Sea, barely large enough to host a single airstrip. There is a post office, bank, supermarket and a hospital, but little else. Fresh water comes by freighter on a 13-hour journey from China's southernmost province.
Welcome to Sansha, China's expanding toehold in the world's most disputed waters, portions of which are also claimed by Vietnam, the Philippines and other neighbors. On Tuesday, as blustery island winds buffeted palm trees, a new mayor declared Sansha with a population of just 1,000 China's newest municipality.
Beijing has created the city administration to oversee not only the rugged outpost but hundreds of thousands of square kilometers (miles) of water, aiming to strengthen its control over disputed  and potentially oil-rich  islands.
A spokesman for the Philippines Foreign Ministry said Manila did not recognize the city or its jurisdiction. Vietnam said China's actions violated international law.
The city administration is on tiny Yongxing island, 350 kilometers (220 miles) southeast from China's tropical Hainan Island. The Cabinet approved Sansha last month to "consolidate administration" over the Paracel and Spratly island chains and the Macclesfield Bank, a large, completely submerged atoll that boasts rich fishing grounds that is also claimed by Taiwan and the Philippines.
Vietnam and China both claim the Paracels, of which Yongxing, little more than half the size of Manhattan's Central Park, is part. The two countries along with the Philippines, Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan also claim all or parts of the Spratlys.
China claims virtually the entire South China Sea and its island groups, and its disputes occasionally erupt into open confrontation. The islands, many of them occupied by garrisons from the various claimants, sit amid some of the world's busiest commercial sea lanes, along with rich fishing grounds and potential oil and gas deposits. China has approved the formal establishment of a military garrison for Sansha, though specific details have yet to be released.
Official broadcaster China Central Television aired Tuesday morning's formal establishment ceremony live from Sansha, with speeches from the city's new mayor and other officials.
The Chinese flag was raised and national anthem played before plaques for the Sansha Municipal Government and the Sansha Municipal Committee of the Communist Party of China were unveiled on a white-columned government building.
Mayor Xiao Jie trumpeted Sansha's important role in protecting China's sovereignty. He said the designation of Sansha as a new city was "a wise decision made by the party and the government of China to protect the sovereign rights of China, and to strengthen the protection and the development of natural resources."
The official Xinhua News Agency reported earlier that Sansha's jurisdiction covers just 13 sq. kilometers (5 sq. miles) of land, including other islands and atolls in the South China Sea around Yongxing, but 2 million sq. kilometers (770,000 sq. miles) of surrounding waters.
Sansha means "three sandbanks" in Mandarin and appears to refer to the Chinese names for the disputed island chains and atoll, known in Chinese as the West, South and Middle Banks, or Xisha, Nansha and Zhongsha.
A description from a former People's Liberation Army officer who was among the officials overseeing the island before Sansha was established paints a picture of a harsh and isolated post where officials took turns staffing for a month at a time. Though, he said fishermen live there all year round.
"The living conditions are pretty simple," Tan Xiankun, director of the office in Hainan overseeing Xisha and other South China Sea territories, told The Associated Press in 2010. "It's very humid and hot, more than 30 degrees, and there's salt everywhere. There's no fresh water, except for what's shipped in and what's collected from rain water."
Philippines Department of Foreign Affairs spokesman Raul Hernandez said Manila has expressed its concern and registered a strong protest with Beijing over the decision to set up a military garrison on Sansha.
"The Philippines does not recognize the Sansha city and the extent of its jurisdiction and considers recent measures taken by China as unacceptable," Hernandez told a news conference.
Vietnam's Foreign Ministry spokesman Luong Thanh Nghi said in a statement that Vietnam had protested to the Chinese foreign ministry.
"China's establishment of the so-called 'Sansha City' ... violated international law, seriously violating Vietnam sovereignty over the Paracel and Spratly archipelagoes," Nghi said.
A report released Tuesday by the International Crisis Group think tank said that although China's large claim to the South China Sea and its assertive approach has rattled other claimants, Beijing is "not stoking tensions on its own."
"South East Asian claimants, with Vietnam and the Philippines in the forefront, are now more forcefully defending their claims  and enlisting outside allies  with considerable energy," it said, a reference to Washington's move to influence the Asian balance of power by supporting China's neighbors.
The report also warned that the risk of escalation was high and urged claimants to find ways to jointly manage energy resources and fishing areas while also agreeing on a mechanism for handling incidents.
"In the absence of such a mechanism, tensions in the South China Sea could all too easily be driven to irreversible levels," it said.



China dubs tiny island new city in sea claim bid - Yahoo! News

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

*Chinas establishment of the so-called Sansha city is worthless*
15:38 | 24/07/2012

VGP - Vietnamese Foreign Ministry spokesman Luong Thanh Nghi has stated that Chinas establishment of the so-called Sansha city seriously violated international law, and Vietnams sovereignty over the two archipelagos of Hoang Sa (Paracel) and Truong Sa (Spratly), and is worthless.

Chinas Central Military Commission on July 19 approved the formation and deployment of a military garrison command of the so-called Sansha in the Phu Lam Island in the Paracel. On July 21, the Chinese side held the election of deputies of the first Peoples Congress of the so-called Sansha.

On July 24, the Vietnamese spokesman said Chinas above-mentioned activities seriously violated international laws and Vietnams sovereignty over the two archipelagoes of Hoang Sa and Truong Sa, and are worthless.

Chinas activities run counter to the consensus reached by high-ranking leaders of the two countries, violate the agreement on basic principles guiding the settlement of sea-related issues between Vietnam and China signed in October 2011, go against the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the East Sea (DOC) signed in 2002 by the ASEAN and China, and make the East Sea situations more complicated.

Vietnam resolutely opposes the above-mentioned activities of China, and demands China respect Vietnams sovereignty, and immediately stop and cancel the wrongful activities, making practical contribution to developing the Vietnam-China friendship and cooperation as well as maintaining peace and stability in the East Sea.

The Vietnamese Ministry of Foreign Affairs on July 24sent a dispatch of protest to the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

On the same day, Chairman of Da Nang Peoples Committee Van Huu Chien and Chairman of Khanh Hoa Peoples Committee Nguyen Chien Thang issued statements on the issue.

The statements say that authorities and people of Da Nang City and Khanh Hoa Province deeply concerned and dissatisfied at the Chinese Central Military Commissions official decision to form a garrison command of the so-called Sansha city on July 19 and Chinas organisation of the election of the first Municipal Peoples Congress of the so-called Sansha city on July 21, they said.

Da Nang city and Khanh Hoa Province strongly oppose and request China immediately stop activities violating international law and Vietnams law, blocking joint efforts to maintain peace and stability in the East Sea and damaging the two peoples friendship

VGP News | China

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## beijingwalker

founding ceremony of Sansha city

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## faithfulguy

Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> *China&#8217;s establishment of the so-called Sansha city is worthless*
> 15:38 | 24/07/2012
> 
> VGP - Vietnamese Foreign Ministry spokesman Luong Thanh Nghi has stated that China&#8217;s establishment of the so-called Sansha city seriously violated international law, and Vietnam&#8217;s sovereignty over the two archipelagos of Hoang Sa (Paracel) and Truong Sa (Spratly), and is worthless.
> 
> China&#8217;s Central Military Commission on July 19 approved the formation and deployment of a military garrison command of the so-called Sansha in the Phu Lam Island in the Paracel. On July 21, the Chinese side held the election of deputies of the first People&#8217;s Congress of the so-called Sansha.
> 
> On July 24, the Vietnamese spokesman said China&#8217;s above-mentioned activities seriously violated international laws and Vietnam&#8217;s sovereignty over the two archipelagoes of Hoang Sa and Truong Sa, and are worthless.
> 
> China&#8217;s activities run counter to the consensus reached by high-ranking leaders of the two countries, violate the agreement on basic principles guiding the settlement of sea-related issues between Vietnam and China signed in October 2011, go against the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the East Sea (DOC) signed in 2002 by the ASEAN and China, and make the East Sea situations more complicated.
> 
> Vietnam resolutely opposes the above-mentioned activities of China, and demands China respect Vietnam&#8217;s sovereignty, and immediately stop and cancel the wrongful activities, making practical contribution to developing the Vietnam-China friendship and cooperation as well as maintaining peace and stability in the East Sea.
> 
> The Vietnamese Ministry of Foreign Affairs on July 24sent a dispatch of protest to the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs.
> 
> On the same day, Chairman of Da Nang People&#8217;s Committee Van Huu Chien and Chairman of Khanh Hoa People&#8217;s Committee Nguyen Chien Thang issued statements on the issue.
> 
> The statements say that authorities and people of Da Nang City and Khanh Hoa Province deeply concerned and dissatisfied at the Chinese Central Military Commission&#8217;s official decision to form a garrison command of the so-called Sansha city on July 19 and China&#8217;s organisation of the election of the first Municipal People&#8217;s Congress of the so-called Sansha city on July 21, they said.
> 
> Da Nang city and Khanh Hoa Province strongly oppose and request China immediately stop activities violating international law and Vietnam&#8217;s law, blocking joint efforts to maintain peace and stability in the East Sea and damaging the two peoples&#8217; friendship
> 
> VGP News | China



I posted something from AP. All your have in response is a mouth piece article of the Vietcong government. Are all you Vietnamese here working for the government of Vietnam? Its ok if you are. This is common in communist countries.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

*Vietnam, Philippines slam China's Sea garrison plan*
By Tran Thi Minh Ha (AFP) &#8211; 22 hours ago 

HANOI &#8212; Vietnam and the Philippines on Tuesday lashed out at China's moves to establish a military garrison in the South China Sea, amid escalating tensions in the disputed waters.
Hanoi filed a formal protest with Beijing against the plan outlined by China this week to station troops in Sansha in the disputed Paracel Islands, saying it "violates international law".
Manila, which is involved in a dispute over another archipelago, the Spratly Islands, also weighed into the row, summoning the Chinese ambassador to lodge a complaint against the garrison announcement.
An intensifying spat over the South China Sea -- the site of key shipping routes and thought to have vast oil and gas reserves -- has seen a barrage of diplomatic moves between the countries with competing territorial claims.
Taiwan, one of several claimants to portions of the Spratly chain, plans to boost firepower at its base on that archipelago's biggest island Taiping from next month, Taipei's coastguard said on Tuesday.
Longer-range artillery and mortars are to be added to existing weaponry at the site, in a move that could further stoke tensions in the region.
China says it owns much of the South China Sea, while Vietnam, the Philippines, Taiwan, Brunei and Malaysia each claim portions.
The disputes have become particularly acrimonious in recent weeks, with Vietnam and the Philippines criticising what they call Chinese encroachment.
Beijing's garrison plan "violates international law, seriously violates Vietnam's sovereignty... and is invalid," Foreign Ministry spokesman Luong Thanh Nghi told AFP.
China attracted Hanoi's ire -- and sparked a series of rare protests in the Vietnamese capital -- when it last month designated Sansha as its administrative centre for the Paracels and the Spratly Islands.
The state-backed China National Offshore Oil Corporation also announced it was welcoming bids to explore oil blocks in the disputed waters, a week after Vietnam adopted a law placing the Spratlys under its sovereignty.
Nghi told AFP Tuesday that China must revoke its "wrongdoings" and urged "friendly and cooperative" relations in order to "maintain peace and stability" in the South China Sea.
China and South Vietnam once administered different parts of the Paracels but after a brief conflict in 1974 Beijing took control of the entire group of islands. Vietnam still holds several of the larger Spratlys.
A July 13 meeting of the Association of Southeast Nations broke up without a joint statement for the first time in 45 years because members could not agree on how to refer to China's behaviour in the disputed waters.
The countries are drafting a "code of conduct" to try to prevent flare-ups in the area.
Copyright © 2012 AFP. All rights reserved

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ahfatzia

faithfulguy said:


> I posted something from AP. All your have in response is a mouth piece article of the Vietcong government. Are all you Vietnamese here working for the government of Vietnam? Its ok if you are. This is common in communist countries.




It's true many western medias are trashing China these days, however, there are none come to Vietnam's rescue, especially in the SCS issues.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

faithfulguy said:


> I posted something from AP. All your have in response is a mouth piece article of the Vietcong government. Are all you Vietnamese here working for the government of Vietnam? Its ok if you are. This is common in communist countries.



No, you're wrong. 
In Vietnam there is not *"50 Cents Party"* like of CCP's. lol chinese 
I only represent the opinion of a Vietnamese people.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## EastSea

Hoang Sa is Islands of Vietnam from Ancient time. China robbed 1974.







The sovereignty stele erected by the Republic of Vietnam on Spratly Island in 1961.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

ahfatzia said:


> It's true many western medias are trashing China these days, however, there are none come to Vietnam's rescue, especially in the SCS issues.



Why Vietnam needs to be rescued? We are being robbed? Or we threatened by pirates?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ahfatzia

Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> Why Vietnam needs to be rescued? We are being robbed? Or we threatened by pirates?




Relax, it's just a figure of speech of saying no one backs your claims either, am not accusing Vietnam of any wrong doings.


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

rcrmj said:


> correct `50 cents are too much for monkey jobs``so in vietnam the vietcon only pays 5 cents



Actually, you only get 50 Maos for each comment, not 50 cents. It's just a way to call of the west. lol.



ahfatzia said:


> Relax, it's just a figure of speech of saying no one backs your claims either, am not accusing Vietnam of any wrong doings.



You're wrong. There are many people support the legitimate claims of Vietnam and the Philippines on the SCS. We claim based on UNCLOS1982, historical basis and legal basis. Only China's claim is illegal and no basis and is not internationally recognized.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/197996-us-senator-mccain-warns-china-over-move-disputed-islands.html#post3227569

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## beijingwalker

year 1974,brave Chinese navy took back the Paracels from Vietnam.
??1974?????_?_

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

beijingwalker said:


> year 1974,brave Chinese navy took back the Paracels from Vietnam.
> ??1974?????_?_



The event China has used of force to rob the Paracel Islands from Vietnam as evidence that the claims and occupation of China in the SCS is illegal.
It may be an evidence to be presented to the international court.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## beijingwalker

Yongxing island,the biggest in Paracel and Spratly,new Sansha city government set up on this island.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## ahfatzia

Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> *You're wrong.* There are many people support the legitimate claims of Vietnam and the Philippines on the SCS. We claim based on UNCLOS1982, historical basis and legal basis. Only China's claim is illegal and no basis and is not internationally recognized.
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/197996-us-senator-mccain-warns-china-over-move-disputed-islands.html#post3227569




LOL How easy the defensive term 'You are wrong' come out of your mouth these days. Are you guilty of anything? 

Read my post #6, didn't I say everyone, including John McCain here, is trashing China these days, however does it mean he support Vietnam? I got to thank you for proofing my point though as if I need it.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Martian2

*Sansha City demonstrates Chinese sovereignty and administration over South China Sea*





China's Sansha City in the South China Sea

China is creating facts on the ground.

Sansha City looks very modern. It sends a clear message of Chinese sovereignty and administration (from Sansha City) over the South China Sea.

Vietnam and the Philippines can no longer claim they're closer to the South China Sea and its islands.

China's Sansha City is the closest city to the disputed South China Sea islands. In addition to China's powerful historical claims, the proximity argument has shifted into China's favor.

[Note: Thank you to Greyboy2 for the picture.]

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## LetsGetRowdy

While others talk the talk, we walk the walk. They can only talk and cry, but talking and crying gets you no where. Congrats to our new city.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## shuttler

China Move On!

This is just Great to see this determination and actions there reinforcing our claim of sovereignty!

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## faithfulguy

Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> No, you're wrong.
> In Vietnam there is not *"50 Cents Party"* like of CCP's. lol chinese
> I only represent the opinion of a Vietnamese people.



So did you write the article you posted from the Vietnamese government's web site.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Audio

CCP playing good. 

Making a city out of military base to reinforce their claim. Behind the negotiating table they can easily say the islands populace want to be in China just how the argument is used in the Falklands and UK example.

But if i was in PLAN id be trying to get a post there. Looks very scenic.


----------



## qinglong-china



Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Vassnti

regard it as a temporary city 



> The melting spread quickly. Melt maps derived from the three satellites showed that on July 8, about 40 percent of the ice sheet's surface had melted. By July 12, 97 percent had melted.
> 
> This extreme melt event coincided with an unusually strong ridge of warm air, or a heat dome, over Greenland. The ridge was one of a series that has dominated Greenland's weather since the end of May. "Each successive ridge has been stronger than the previous one," said Mote. This latest heat dome started to move over Greenland on July 8, and then parked itself over the ice sheet about three days later. By July 16, it had begun to dissipate.
> 
> Even the area around Summit Station in central Greenland, which at 2 miles above sea level is near the highest point of the ice sheet, showed signs of melting. Such pronounced melting at Summit and across the ice sheet has not occurred since 1889, according to ice cores analyzed by Kaitlin Keegan at Dartmouth College in Hanover, N.H. A National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration weather station at Summit confirmed air temperatures hovered above or within a degree of freezing for several hours July 11-12.



NASA - Satellites See Unprecedented Greenland Ice Sheet Surface Melt

Scientists estimate that if all of Greenland's ice sheet were to melt, the global sea level would rise by 23 feet (7 meters). No more islands to argue about, problem solved.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ahfatzia

^^^LOL 23 feet, most coastal cities in the world will be in trouble. Who care about those shoals in SCS anymore.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

ahfatzia said:


> LOL How easy the defensive term 'You are wrong' come out of your mouth these days. Are you guilty of anything?
> 
> Read my post #6, didn't I say everyone, including John McCain here, is trashing China these days, however does it mean he support Vietnam? I got to thank you for proofing my point though as if I need it.





ahfatzia said:


> Relax, it's just a figure of speech of saying no one backs your claims either, am not accusing Vietnam of any wrong doings.



Idiot. It is the CCP which "is trashing China these days", not "western media". Recently China has continued with the claims illogical, illegal, greed and unfounded ... in SCS.
Just look at the claims "nine dotted line" of China. Anyone who is not an idiot also easy to recognize the absurdity of its.

Why do you think that China's claims are right, while Vietnam's claims are "wrong". lol ideological chinese.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## grandmaster

good job! china needs to work harder to build airforce and navy bases in the new city.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## dunhill

ahfatzia said:


> It's true many western medias are trashing China these days, however, there are none come to Vietnam's rescue, especially in the SCS issues.



Apparently, Viet Nam only needs Western Medias to be its witness for later on, Viet Nam will fight China then its can not be "aggressive" country as Western named Viet Nam not long ago. China don't worry, you aksed for it then you'll get it. Just wait and see!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## beijingwalker

dunhill said:


> Apparently, Viet Nam only needs Western Medias to be its witness for later on, Viet Nam will fight China then its can not be "aggressive" country as Western named Viet Nam not long ago. China don't worry, you aksed for it then you'll get it. Just wait and see!



haha,how long should we wait?bring it on to us,1974 and 1988 were decades away,all countries in the world knows that China is waiting for you attack first and your navy will be doomed for sure in less than one hour,only,yes,only Vietnamese idiots think they can attack mighty Chinese navy and win.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## terranMarine

dunhill said:


> Apparently, Viet Nam only needs Western Medias to be its witness for later on, Viet Nam will fight China then its can not be "aggressive" country as Western named Viet Nam not long ago. China don't worry, you aksed for it then you'll get it. Just wait and see!


 
Don't keep us waiting too long or we all can't see after 60 years from now. Yes you guys have been trying to tell us that you will grab the islands back. So speed things up otherwise you Viets will end up in a coffin knowing the fact Vietnam never grabbed these islands back and remains just talk talk talk to all of us on the forum. It's becoming so repetitive that it is not even worth reading seeing VN not taking extreme actions to set foot on these islands.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

terranMarine said:


> Don't keep us waiting too long or we all can't see after 60 years from now. Yes you guys have been trying to tell us that you will grab the islands back. So speed things up otherwise you Viets will end up in a coffin knowing the fact Vietnam never grabbed these islands back and remains just talk talk talk to all of us on the forum. It's becoming so repetitive that it is not even worth reading seeing VN not taking extreme actions to set foot on these islands.



We just need to wait until china collapsed and fragmented into many smaller countries. Be patient. Why not?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ahfatzia

Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> Idiot. It is the CCP which "is trashing China these days", not "western media". Recently China has continued with the claims illogical, illegal, greed and unfounded ... in SCS.
> Just look at the claims "nine dotted line" of China. Anyone who is not an idiot also easy to recognize the absurdity of its.
> 
> Why do you think that China's claims are right, while Vietnam's claims are "wrong". lol ideological chinese.




Go learn some proper English and reading skill before you talk in an international forum, otherwise you're only embarrassing yourself. Pick up some social etiquette too while you at it.



dunhill said:


> Apparently, Viet Nam only needs Western Medias to be its witness for later on, Viet Nam will fight China then its can not be "aggressive" country as Western named Viet Nam not long ago. China don't worry, you aksed for it then you'll get it. Just wait and see!




Bravo, I admire your courage.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## beijingwalker

Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> We just need to wait until china collapsed and fragmented into many smaller countries. Be patient. Why not?



that will be a long wait ahead,millions of years,by that time the country called Vietnam will be long gone in the history,so what do you wait that for?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

beijingwalker said:


> that will be a long wait ahead,millions of years,by that time the country called Vietnam will be long gone in the history,so what do you wait that for?



No, I dont think it so long. Chinese society is unstable potentially. Just wait.

BTW: Beijingwalker, How do you escape the rains recently?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

Dirty aggresors.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Sasquatch

Nice Party .

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## terranMarine

Just don't keep us waiting for too long, you do want to see Vietcongs setting foot on these islands before we all die from old age just to proof to us how right you were. What's the point to spread such statement if you can't see it happening when you are among the living?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Cyph3r

Go China! Show who's the real boss no compromise on China's sovereignty over south china sea

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

See the Chinese are happy with the new land which they robbed from Vietnam. LOL on han expansionist ideology!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Martian2

*Why is the U.S. national security adviser in Beijing and not Hanoi?*

The U.S. national security adviser is in Beijing to discuss U.S. interests. He is not in Hanoi to discuss the South China Sea with the Vietnamese. Action speaks louder than words. Those handshakes in the pictures below are thunderous. They are telling you which side the U.S. is on.

Chinese VP stresses strengthening China-U.S. ties - Xinhua | English.news.cn

"Chinese VP stresses strengthening China-U.S. ties
English.news.cn 2012-07-25 20:20:42






Chinese Vice President Xi Jinping (R) meets with U.S. National Security Advisor Thomas Donilon in Beijing, capital of China, July 25, 2012. (Xinhua/Pang Xinglei)





Chinese Vice President Xi Jinping (R) meets with U.S. National Security Advisor Thomas Donilon in Beijing, capital of China, July 25, 2012. (Xinhua/Pang Xinglei)






Chinese Vice Premier Wang Qishan (R) meets with U.S. national security advisor Thomas Donilon in Beijing, capital of China, July 25, 2012. (Xinhua/Zhang Duo)

BEIJING, July 25 (Xinhua) -- Vice President Xi Jinping said Wednesday the United States and China should strengthen mutual trust, cooperation and friendship, and properly handle differences.

In this way, the two countries can push forward bilateral relations toward the direction of cooperative partnership featuring mutual respect and mutual benefit set by the two heads of state, and explore a new model of relationship between major powers like China and the United States to benefit the two peoples and the world, Xi said.

Xi made the remarks during a meeting with U.S. National Security Advisor Thomas Donilon, noting that China-U.S. relations have been moving ahead on the whole through the last four decades.

"As times change, China and the United States are both growing, and bilateral relationship is standing at a crucial historical juncture," Xi said.

He called on the two sides to view bilateral ties from a long-term perspective and enhance exchanges in various fields and at a range of levels.

Donilon, who is on a three-day trip to China, said current U.S.-China ties are positive, stable and fruitful.

He highlighted frequent high-level contacts, effective mechanisms for communication and dialogue, as well as expanding and deepening cooperation.

The United States will enhance contact, mutual understanding and cooperation with China to jointly build a new model of relationship between the major powers of China and the United States, he told Xi.

Chinese Vice Premier Wang Qishan also met Donilon on Wednesday, and they discussed the two countries' economic relations."

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Rechoice

Hoang Sa is Islands belong to Vietnam. 






The sovereignty stele erected in 1938.

*The 1882 &#8220;Dai Nam Nhat Thong Chi&#8221; (The Geography of the Unified Dai Nam) reads:*

&#8220;Hoang Sa Islands lies in the east of Re Island (Cù lao Ré), under Binh Son District. From Sa Ky Seaport, it can take three or four days to sail to the islands under favorable wind. There are more than 130 small islands, separated by waters which can take a few watches or a few days to travel across. Within the islands is the golden sandbank spanning tens of thousands of li and thus called Van Ly Truong Sa. There are freshwater wells, and numerous birds gather on the bank. Sea products there include sea cucumbers, sea turtles, and volutes. Goods from ships wrecked by storms drift onto the bank.&#8221;

Other books completed under the Nguyen Dynasty, such as the 1821 &#8220;Lich Trieu Hien Chuong Loai Chi&#8221; (Classified Rules of Dynasties), the 1833 &#8220;Hoang Viet Du Dia Chi&#8221; (Geography of the Viet Empire), the 1876 &#8220;Viet Su Thong Giam Cuong Muc Khao Luoc&#8221; (Outline of the Viet History Chronicles) all have similar description for the Paracel Islands.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

He is convincing to cover for china. lol...


----------



## terranMarine

Any plans allowing Chinese tourists to visit?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Obambam

Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> No, I dont think it so long. Chinese society is unstable *potentially*. Just wait.


 
Anyone can be *"potentially"* unstable, let alone a society. Feel free to wait

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## dunhill

beijingwalker said:


> haha,how long should we wait?bring it on to us,1974 and 1988 were decades away,all countries in the world knows that China is waiting for you attack first and your navy will be doomed for sure in less than one hour,only,yes,only Vietnamese idiots think they can attack mighty Chinese navy and win.



Just for 6 month or less, exactly on the date of 01/2013 then China will see. We understand you so well, also we are not underestimate China for good.* We know how to fight and dare to fight*, no wonder last year we did live-fire on SCS then China already stop cutting cables. Don't you see?

*Fight for survival, we are stronger* than bunch of Chinese equal more than 1 billion people. That is a fact and no one could deny it, like a ball if you keep pressing it, then it will explodes. Is it loud and clear for you all Chinese?



terranMarine said:


> Don't keep us waiting too long or we all can't see after 60 years from now. Yes you guys have been trying to tell us that you will grab the islands back. So speed things up otherwise you Viets will end up in a coffin knowing the fact Vietnam never grabbed these islands back and remains just talk talk talk to all of us on the forum. It's becoming so repetitive that it is not even worth reading seeing VN not taking extreme actions to set foot on these islands.



No you should not be wait for long, it is coming and you just don't know it. Like I said earlier, China asked for it we will make you pleased. This time, we will head to head with China, the winner takes all.

One thing for sure that and there will be *NO CHINESE REFUGEES,* cause China made the World throwing ups from China's people.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## beijingwalker

dunhill said:


> Just for 6 month or less, exactly on the date of 01/2013 then China will see. We understand you so well, also we are not underestimate China for good.* We know how to fight and dare to fight*, no wonder last year we did live-fire on SCS then China already stop cutting cables. Don't you see?





> exactly on the date of 01/2013 then China will see.


 that's not very far off and we can wait,what if your country wont do anything on that date?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## dunhill

beijingwalker said:


> that's not very far off and we can wait,*what if* your country wont do anything on that date?



Then *what if* on that date comes and China back of from SCS? What Viet Nam could do as it called "self-defense"?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

The U.S. national security adviser is in Beijing to testing his enemy.


----------



## beijingwalker

dunhill said:


> Then *what if* on that date comes and China back of from SCS? What Viet Nam could do as it called "self-defense"?



you predicted an exact date,not me,so what if you wont do anything on that day?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ChinaToday

Let celebrate guys we will invite our dearest friends Pakistan ,Bangadesh and srilankra to join out party

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## EastSea

ChinaToday said:


> Let celebrate guys we will invite our dearest friends Pakistan ,Bangadesh and srilankra to join out party


----------



## ChinaToday

*HAPPY BIRTHDAY*

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## dunhill

beijingwalker said:


> you predicted an exact date,not me,so what if you wont do anything on that day?



The dates will be on 1/2013 and Viet Nam all forces got untied then its could do a jobs for Vietnamese. Protect and served, that also meant, within our 200 nautical mile EZZ if we see *ANY* China ships crossing that lines then we have *RIGHT* to shoot at will.

No one wants to getting any troubles but China is trouble makers. Its loves to enjoy trouble and it should has something in return. China does not need to wait for long. Clock is ticking !!!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## dunhill

Tensions in the South China Sea have risen to their highest level in at least two years in the wake of the disastrous breakup of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) foreign ministers meeting in Phnom Penh. Secretary-General Surin Pitsuwan, an eternal optimist, admitted that the summit was an "unprecedented" failure in ASEAN's history, and Indonesia's foreign minister rushed to mediate tensions between ASEAN members lest they explode again. At nearly the same time, a Chinese naval frigate ran aground in a disputed area of the sea, raising regional suspicions that Beijing was trying to bolster its claim to the entire South China Sea.

As it has over the past three years, the Obama administration has taken a cautious but firm position on South China Sea sovereignty and adjudication of disputes. While noting that the United States does not have any claim on the South China Sea, the Obama administration has more vocally backed the ASEAN claimants' rights on territorial claims, even saying that freedom of navigation and a resolution of claims accepted by all nations was a U.S. "national interest."

The sides have turned virtually uninhabited rocks into new provinces and states.
The administration also has upped its assistance to mainland Southeast Asia, such as announcing earlier this month $50 million in new funding for the Lower Mekong Initiative, a project for Mekong River nations like Laos. Regional partners of the United States like the Philippines are rapidly buying up arms, while at the same time, China and most of the Southeast Asian claimants of portions of the sea (Vietnam, the Philippines, Malaysia, Brunei, and Taiwan) are ramping up rhetoric about their claims and increasingly sending naval and "civilian" fishing boats into the sea to test adversaries' positions.

Yet at the same time, there remains some room for compromise among all sea claimants and the United States. Chinese officials recognize that their increasingly vocal positions on the sea have alienated many Southeast Asian nations and pushed countries like Vietnam and the Philippines closer to the United States. At the same time, though some ASEAN nations like Cambodia are drawing nearer to China, while others such as the Philippines are moving closer to Washington, all ASEAN nations realize that Southeast Asian states must generally provide a united front on issues if they are to be treated as a major power in East Asia.

Hardening Territorial Claims

Tensions over the South China Sea, which is strategically vital and believed to contain rich deposits of petroleum, go back decades, but over the past two years they have escalated dramatically. China, which in theory claims nearly the entire sea, has in recent years publicly advocated its claims more forcefully. This can be attributed to various causes: Perhaps U.S. economic problems distracted it from Asia in the latter half of the 2000s; China's leadership recognizes Beijing's own rising naval strength; China's government is responding to growing nationalism; China's resources companies want to expedite exploration of the sea; or some combination of these and other factors.

Then last summer, ASEAN appeared willing to simply let China move any resolution down the road by publicly celebrating the drafting of an agreement between Southeast Asian states and China to resolve South China Sea disputes peacefully. But the agreement was not a binding code of conduct, and it skirted any real resolution of key issues like overlapping territorial claims to the sea and exploration of its potential undersea resources. ASEAN's weak stand may have encouraged Beijing to take a harder-line position this year.


This spring and summer, the Southeast Asian claimants (except Malaysia, which has taken a more passive role) and China have hardened their positions by putting into place more physical manifestations of their claims. The sides have turned virtually uninhabited rocks into new provinces and states. Earlier this year, China announced that the disputed Paracel and Spratly Islands, as well as another area of the sea, have become a Chinese administrative area called Sansha City, with its own governing officials.

The dispute also has done serious damage to ASEAN claims to be able to handle important regional issues and, in the future, drive regional integration
They have begun staking out oil and gas claims as another physical manifestation of their power: China National Offshore Oil Company recently invited foreign oil companies to offer it bids to explore potential blocks that are just off of the coast of Vietnam. And they have increasingly used non-military boats to make their points. Last month, for instance, Beijing declared that it would expand the fleets of fishing vessels it will be sending to disputed regions of the sea.

Many Southeast Asian diplomats claim that these boats are essentially paramilitary vessels, yet Vietnam and the Philippines increasingly use the same types of boats to stake their claims. Meanwhile, Philippine officials are increasingly pressing Washington for higher-quality military equipment. Vietnam and the Philippines also have been inviting foreign petroleum companies to engage in joint exploration projects in contested areas.

Following the ASEAN foreign ministers' meeting, several critical indicators will show whether all sides are willing to step back from the dispute, which now increasingly threatens to turn into a shooting war. (After considerable arm-twisting from Indonesian leaders on July 20, ASEAN eventually reached what it called a consensus on the sea, but this simply papered over divisions and had little new of substance.) Observers are watching to see how publicly China discusses the new "territory" of Sansha. And many Southeast Asian officials are watching to see whether Beijing disburses large new grants or low-interest loans to Cambodia and Malaysia, the two ASEAN nations that have taken a much lower-profile approach to the sea (Cambodia virtually advocated the Chinese position during the summit).

Ultimately, Beijing's signals that it was willing to once again begin negotiating a code of conduct that would govern how ships act in disputed maritime waters would be the sign that China is stepping back from the brink. On the Southeast Asian side, Vietnam and the Philippines' willingness to call back some of their fishing boats, as well as Hanoi's willingness to stop passing resolutions in its legislature claiming portions of the sea, would be important calming signs.

ASEAN's Divisions

More than at any other time, the dispute this year also has done serious damage to ASEAN claims to be able to handle important regional issues and in the future drive regional integration. Even some of the most ardent backers of the organization now wonder whether ASEAN's traditional consensus style is defunct. This is hardly the first time the consensus approach has proven counterproductive: ASEAN failed, in the past, to take strong positions even on conflict within Southeast Asia, as occurred in East Timor in 1999, because of this adherence to consensus and noninterference, a sharp contrast from some other regional organizations like the African Union.

The desire for consensus is further challenged by the new closeness between China and some of the mainland Southeast Asian states, raising fears in the Philippines, Vietnam, and Brunei, among others, that countries like Cambodia, Laos, and even Thailand will be pawns of China.

Phnom Penh, which holds the chair of ASEAN this year, has become increasingly dependent on Chinese aid and investment. Two-way trade between China and Cambodia is estimated to roughly double between now and 2017 to $5 billion, while China has become by far the largest aid donor in Cambodia.

Laos and Thailand have become increasingly dependent on China as well. Creating a binding code of conduct signed by the Southeast Asian claimants and China seems very unlikely, at least for now.

Preventing a Conflict

The priority on all sides should be to avoid military conflict [editor's note: See CFR Contingency Planning Memorandum by expert Bonnie Glaser]. ASEAN and China both have good reasons to avoid a shooting war in the South China Sea. Even as China spars with Vietnam, the Philippines, and other countries, it is becoming the largest trading partner and one of the biggest direct investors of most Southeast Asian states since an ASEAN-China free trade area came into effect.

For the United States, avoiding conflict in the sea would help prevent the overstretch of the military, which does not want to take on the role of policing the South China Sea, while also giving Washington time to help upgrade forces and to foster greater unity among ASEAN members on the South China Sea issue. The United States should help the Southeast Asians and the Chinese develop a hotline between political and military leaders to help prevent sea incidents from escalating. In addition, the ASEAN nations could go to the International Tribunal on the Law of the Sea and solicit an opinion on the disputed claims, which might help make its position stronger. ASEAN nations and China also could work to cooperate on resource extraction from the sea.

Finally, as many ASEAN officials already have noted, if the organization is to compete with China and other Asian powers and seriously negotiate a code of conduct for the Sea, it needs to strengthen its Secretariat, giving it more powers, a higher-profile secretary-general, and far greater resources.

Sources:http://www.cfr.org/china/south-chin...dersexp-south_china_sea__from_bad_to_w-072412

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## LetsGetRowdy

Truth be told, it will only get worse before it gets better, and by better I mean China finally securing and dominating our lake. After such an event, it will be back to business as usual in the worlds most busiest shipping lanes. China will be tasked with the responsibilities of overseeing and protecting all cargo ships and vessels traveling through the South China Sea from pirates and other hostile entities.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Sasquatch

All SCS News & Discussions posted here

Fighting/Spam won't be tolerated


----------



## ahfatzia

And because of the fact the SCS is the most important sea lane for her large commercial merchant fleet trade route, China cannot afford it being controlled by someone else, including the US. She must does what it take to gain the full control of this area otherwise her economical future will be restrained by others.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## oct605032048

dunhill said:


> The dates will be on 1/2013 and Viet Nam all forces got untied then its could do a jobs for Vietnamese. Protect and served, that also meant, within our 200 nautical mile EZZ if we see *ANY* China ships crossing that lines then we have *RIGHT* to shoot at will.
> 
> No one wants to getting any troubles but China is trouble makers. Its loves to enjoy trouble and it should has something in return. China does not need to wait for long. Clock is ticking !!!



shoot at will? at yours? 
till date all China is doing is pushing forward without a fight. Any VN bullet will light the fire China needs.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## dunhill

oct605032048 said:


> shoot at will? at yours?
> till date all China is doing is pushing forward without a fight. Any VN bullet will* light the fire* China needs.



Yes, Viet Nam will shoot *ANY* China ships at will with in its EZZ has ben designated. With Chinese fishermen we will *CAPTURE* them as CMS did to us. 

China want to get troubles from its *planted* in SCS then its will get what its trying to* fruits*.


----------



## EastSea

ChinaToday said:


> *HAPPY BIRTHDAY*



The ending of aggressors.







ending ceremony for fake city.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

ahfatzia said:


> And because of the fact the SCS is the most important sea lane for her large commercial merchant fleet trade route, China cannot afford it being controlled by someone else, including the US. She must does what it take to gain the full control of this area otherwise her economical future will be restrained by others.



But Uncle Sam has controlled over the Strait of Malacca by sending modern warships to Singapore!?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ahfatzia

Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> But Uncle Sam has controlled over the Strait of Malacca by sending modern warships to Singapore!?




For now the US is doing a job of keeping the Malacca Strait open so it's not a bad idea for her to keep doing so. Save money and human resources for China. Singapore, Malaysia and Indonesia contribute most of the privacy prevention programs anyway.


----------



## Martian2

*Where are the Vietnamese and Filipino navies? The PLA Navy is waiting in the South China Sea*





A fleet of Chinese naval ships conduct combat training exercise in the South China Sea on 8 July 2012. (Chinamil.com.cn/Tan Wenwu/China)

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

ahfatzia said:


> And because of the fact the SCS is the most important sea lane for her large commercial merchant fleet trade route, China cannot afford it being controlled by someone else, including the US. She must does what it take to gain the full control of this area otherwise her economical future will be restrained by others.


 


ahfatzia said:


> For now the US is doing a job of keeping the Malacca Strait open so it's not a bad idea for her to keep doing so. Save money and human resources for China. Singapore, Malaysia and Indonesia contribute most of the privacy prevention programs anyway.



So, what is it mean when China is trying to control the East Sea (SCS) while the U.S has controlled over Malacca at Singapore's position?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ahfatzia

Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> So, what is it mean when China is trying to control the East Sea (SCS) while the U.S has controlled over Malacca at Singapore's position?




The US doesn't control the Malacca per se as you said, she's there to ensure the freedom of transverse, which coincide with China's goal anyway. Besides, unlike the US, China doesn't like yo meddle others affairs unless her national interests are at stake.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

*Truong Sa (Spratlys), Hoang Sa (Paracels) not belong to China: 1904 Chinese map*

(VOV) - *A Chinese map published in 1904 reveals that the Hoang Sa (Paracel) and Truong Sa (Spratly) Archipelagos did not belong to China.*

*According to the Map of all Chinese provinces map, printed by Shanghai Publishing House in 1904, China stretches as far south as Hainan Island.*






Purchasing the map from an elderly man in 1977, Dr. Mai Hong, former head of the Library of the Institute for the Study of Chinese and Demotic Scripts and Cultures, translated into Vietnamese that adequately represents the origin and date of the map.
The map was drawn in the Han (Chinese) script across nearly two centuries (1708 &#8211; 1904), from the Kangxi Emperor who ruled China from 1661 &#8211; 1722 to the Guangxu Emperor from 1875 &#8211; 1908, Hong said.

The emperors asked many clergymen and gifted astronomers and mathematicians to make this map, he said, adding that in 1708, King Kangxi recruited some western clergymen to draw the map of the Great Wall.

In 1711, the King continued to ask the clergymen to survey lands in 13 provinces nationwide. After that, Chinese intellectuals and western clergymen worked together for nearly 200 years to finish this map.
Among the western clergymen were Matteo Bicci from Italy, Joannes Adam Schall Von Bell from Germany, and Ferdinandus Verbiest from Belgium, Hong says.

In 1904, the Shanghai Publishing House printed this map and distributed it to all provinces of the Qing Dynasty, the last imperial dynasty of China ruling from 1644 to 1912. The introduction of the map was written by the director of a Chinese observatory.

According to Pham Hoang Quan, a local researcher on Han-Chinese and Demotic Scripts, the map, measuring 115cm long and 140cm wide, was printed on separate sheets and belonged to a group of large-scale maps.
The map&#8217;s accuracy in terms of longitude and latitude is nearly on a par with modern maps. This map was made by experts at the Observatory of the Qing Dynasty, so it can be considered official, he said.

On July 4, Dr. Mai Hong contacted the National Museum of Vietnamese History to hand over the map for display and preservation.

Truong Sa, Hoang Sa not belong to China: 1904 Chinese map - Truong Sa, Hoang Sa not belong to China: 1904 Chinese map - VOVNEWS.VN

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Martian2

We've already discussed the 1904 map. It is merely one of over 34 maps in the collection. It is a partial representation of China's territory. You have to look at all 34 maps.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

*A map of China 1904:*





The Han-Chinese map published by Shanghai Publishing House in 1904 was created across nearly two decades (1708 &#8211; 1904), from the Kangxi Emperor who ruled China from 1661 &#8211; 1722 to the Guangxu Emperor from 1875 to 1908, says Dr. Mai Hong, former head of the Library of the Institute for the Study of Chinese and Demotic Scripts and Cultures. 

Dr. Mai Hong, who bought the map in 1977, adds that this map will provide some helpful evidence that helps Vietnam get more active in resolving disputes with China over the ownership of the two islands in the East Sea. 

According to Pham Hoang Quan, a local researcher on Han-Chinese and Demotic Scripts, the map&#8217;s accuracy in terms of longitude and latitude is nearly on par with modern maps. 

&#8220;This map, measuring 115cm long and 140cm wide, was made by experts at the Observatory of the Qing Dynasty, so it can be considered official,&#8221; Quan says.



*A Map of Vietnam 1834:*




&#8220;&#272;&#7841;i Nam nh&#7845;t th&#7889;ng toàn &#273;&#7891;&#8221; (A map of Vietnam made in 1834 that claims Hoang Sa and Truong Sa are Vietnam&#8217;s territory). Source: Ban Do (Map) Publishing House. Photo by Viet Dung

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

*Senator Webb: China&#8217;s Military and Governmental Expansion into South China Sea May Be a &#8220;Violation of International Law&#8221;*

Calls on State Department to Clarify Situation

July 25, 2012

Washington, DC&#8212;Senator Jim Webb, chair of the Senate Foreign Relations East Asian and Pacific Affairs Subcommittee, today said China&#8217;s recent actions to unilaterally assert control of disputed territories in the South China Sea may be a violation of international law. He urged the U.S. State Department to clarify this situation with China and report back to Congress.

Senator Webb: China&rsquo;s Military and Governmental Expansion into South China Sea May Be a &ldquo;Violation of International Law&rdquo;

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## asean_2015

Martian2 said:


> We've already discussed the 1904 map. It is merely one of over 34 maps in the collection. It is a partial representation of China's territory. You have to look at all 34 maps.


It is a very weak argument. The map shows clearly that the paracel and spratly islands did not belong to China at least in 1904 unless the map is a fake version. The map will avoid unecessary argument between China and Vietnam about the sovereignty of these islands.

It will be very good if you can show all 34 maps and the time the maps were published.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ManilaBoy45

Latest SCS News Articles ...

The PN plans to deploy it's patrol ships back out to the Spratlys areas as soon as the weather improves to enforce the maritime laws within it's jurisdiction ... 

PHL Navy to drive off 20 Chinese vessels from Spratlys | GMA News Online | The Go-To Site for Filipinos Everywhere

Navy to deploy ships to Pag-asa

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ComeAtMeBro

ahfatzia said:


> *
> Congratulations to the new city of Sansha and wish you peace and prosperous.
> 
> A good move by China to tell the crybabies above they can not always get what they want. There's no need for international recognitions to build your own city, I don't think.*


*

Does every chinese on these board are stupid or uneducated of these international laws
They sounds like barbarians from ancient times that learns the internet to me 

Oh god I wonder what will happen to Singapore if you are the president *

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ahfatzia

ComeAtMeBro said:


> Does every chinese on these board are stupid or uneducated of these international laws
> They sounds like barbarians from ancient times that learns the internet to me
> 
> Oh god I wonder what will happen to Singapore if you are the president




You are like a freaking ghost murmuring and belittling China and Chinese in every thread without any substantiation. You only make your country looks bad if you have nothing better to contribute. This is an international forum, for Christ sake, at least make an effort to look smart.

Who wants to be a president now a days after Aquino put such a bad name in that office.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ComeAtMeBro

ahfatzia said:


> You are like a freaking ghost murmuring and belittling China and Chinese in every thread without any substantiation. You only make your country looks bad if you have nothing better to contribute. This is an international forum, for Christ sake, at least make an effort to look smart.
> 
> Who wants to be a president now a days after Aquino put such a bad name in that office.



Oh the irony~ (How about check your other post smartguy ) 

Last time I check there were no(maybe a few 1 or 2) chinese here who is repectable enough
How about try to check every thread of your chinese friend and look how they ridicule the other nation

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ManilaBoy45

Latest SCS News Articles ...

http://www.netindia123.com/netindia/showdetails.asp?id=2032571&n_date=20120727&cat=India

China names military heads of South China Sea city | WashingtonExaminer.com

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Martian2

*How do you know if the U.S. is willing to protect your country? It's easy. Look out the window.*

The Vietnamese, Filipinos, and Gambit keep claiming the United States will intervene if China starts shooting in the South China Sea. I say hogwash. The U.S. couldn't care less in 1974 when China squashed U.S. ally South Vietnam at the Paracel Islands.

Furthermore, Secretary of State Clinton has explicitly stated the U.S. has no territorial claims in the South China Sea and will remain neutral.

Finally, it is easy to know if the U.S. will militarily support your country. Just look out the window and check for American-flown F-16 fighters and soldiers on your military bases.

Poland will have American F-16 fighter jets and support personnel on its soil at the start of 2013 (see citation below). Can Vietnam or the Philippines make the same claim?

Poland and Georgia sent troops to Afghanistan to support the U.S. military. Can Vietnam or the Philippines make the same claim? If not, what does that tell you about the likelihood of U.S. help for Vietnam or the Philippines?

----------

US to station forces in Poland for first time

"*US to station forces in Poland for first time*
by Staff Writers
Washington (AFP) July 25, 2012

The Pentagon said Wednesday it plans to send a US air force detachment to Poland to support fighter jets and transport planes, marking the first time that US soldiers have been stationed there.

The announcement was made at the end of talks between US Defense Secretary Leon Panetta and his Polish counterpart Tomasz Siemoniak.

The detachment "will arrive this fall to support quarterly F-16 and C-130 deployments beginning in 2013 and will be the first US forces stationed on Polish soil," Pentagon spokesman George Little said in a statement.

"The arrival of this detachment will mark a new step forward in the relationship between United States and Poland and enable closer military cooperation."

US F-16 fighter jets and Hercules transport aircraft are to be deployed in Poland on a rotating basis as of next year, the statement said.

The ministers also discussed Poland's contribution to the international force in Afghanistan, where nearly 2,500 Polish troops are stationed in the eastern province of Ghazni, and Warsaw's participation in NATO missile defense.

Poland and Romania are each expected to host a ballistic missile interceptor site by 2018. Turkey is to host an early warning radar system."

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ViXuyen

you guys should rename this thread as "Paracel island pics" to reflect its true content.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ViXuyen



Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## thanhtung1990

Sansha city built illegally on the Paracels. Paracels belong to Vietnam.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## HongWu

thanhtung1990 said:


> Sansha city built illegally on the Paracels. Paracels belong to Vietnam.


dirty Viets can masturbate yourself to death with your Dai Viet fantasies

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## shuntmaster

shuntmaster said:


> Border disputes in China
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China has more neighbours than any country in the world, bordering on 14 other countries. Only the European Union, taken as a whole, has more bordering countries.
> 
> With so many fences to keep up, a few disputes can be expected. Here are a few from recent years.
> 
> _*India *_
> 
> Two regions are claimed by both India and China. Aksai Chin is in the disputed territory of Kashmir, at the junction of Pakistan, Tibet and India. India claims the 38,000-square-kilometre territory, currently administered by China.
> 
> Arunachal Pradesh is a state of India in the country's northeast, bordering on Bhutan, Bangladesh, Myanmar and China. Though it is under Indian administration, China calls the 90,000-square-kilometre area South Tibet.
> 
> _*Russia*_
> 
> A dispute involving three islands on the rivers that form the border between China and Russia was resolved in October 2004, in a manner King Solomon would have been proud of.
> 
> Each of the islands  Bol'shoi Ussuriiskii Island and Tarabarov Island at the juncture of the Amur and Ussuri rivers, near Khabarovsk, Russia, and Bol'shoi Island on the Argun River  was split 50-50, with half of the territory going to each country.
> 
> The uninhabited islands had symbolic importance in the control over the rivers.
> 
> _*Japan* _
> 
> The Senkaku Islands are five unpopulated islands in the East China Sea with a total are of seven square kilometres. They are under Japanese control and are considered part of the Japanese Southwest Islands, but the People's Republic of China and Taiwan each claim them as well, calling them the Diaoyutai Islands and Diaoyu Islands, respectively.
> 
> In March 2004, a group of seven Chinese activists landed on one of the islands. The Japanese government arrested them for illegal entry and deported them back to China.
> 
> _*Taiwan *_
> 
> The People's Republic of China claims Taiwan, but it is administered by the Republic of China.
> 
> _*Tibet* _
> 
> The Government of Tibet in Exile claims not only the Tibet Autonomous Region under the control of China, but also Qinghai province and parts of surrounding provinces. Tibet in Exile calls the Chinese control of Tibet an illegitimate occupation.
> 
> _*Other disputes* _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Portions of China's western border with *Tajikistan* haven't been defined.
> 
> A section of the boundary between China and *North Korea* in the Baitou Mountain area is indefinite.
> 
> The Paracel Islands in the South China Sea are administered by China, but claimed by *Vietnam and Taiwan*. There is also a dispute between China and *Vietnam* over the maritime boundaries in the Gulf of Tonkin.
> 
> The rich fishing rights and possible oil reserves of the Spratly Islands in the South China Sea are claimed by China,*Taiwan, Malaysia, the Philippines, Vietnam and possibly Brunei. *



China has territorial disuptes with most of its neigbhours, and even with some who are 100o's of miles away from its shores.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## asean_2015

HongWu said:


> dirty Viets can masturbate yourself to death with your Dai Viet fantasies


it is a very dirty comment. if I was you, I would try to prove to everyone that the Sansha city is legal. However, the maps posted in this forum indicate the illegality of the Sansha city.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## HongWu

asean_2015 said:


> it is a very dirty comment. if I was you, I would try to prove to everyone that the Sansha city is legal. However, the maps posted in this forum indicate the illegality of the Sansha city.


China needs to prove nothing. We are the most powerful nation in East Asia and we make the law. Either you obey or else like those brave but stupid Viets in 1988 Johnson Reef feed fishes 

[video]www.youtube.com/watch?v=uq30CY9nWE8[/video]

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ComeAtMeBro

Sansha city (it's not even a city anyway) is fake and illegal in the eyes of the rest of the world
Of course, chinese wouldn't accept it 

And why do chinese always like to bring back the history?
This race is actually stuck in ancient era

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

HongWu said:


> China needs to prove nothing. We are the most powerful nation in East Asia and we make the law. Either you obey or else like those brave but stupid Viets in 1988 Johnson Reef feed fishes
> 
> [video]www.youtube.com/watch?v=uq30CY9nWE8[/video]



Robbers do their job.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## tuankaqui

HongWu said:


> China needs to prove nothing. We are the most powerful nation in East Asia and we make the law. Either you obey or else like those brave but stupid Viets in 1988 Johnson Reef feed fishes


I hope you understood in a way is veracious about it.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

HongWu said:


> China needs to prove nothing. We are the most powerful nation in East Asia and we make the law. Either you obey or else like those brave but stupid Viets in 1988 Johnson Reef feed fishes
> 
> [video]www.youtube.com/watch?v=uq30CY9nWE8[/video]



Yes, in 1988 China used of warships to attack transport ships and Vietnamese soldiers unarmed to rob the islands of Vietnam. This is an evidence of the illegal occupation of China on the coral reefs in the Spratly islands of Vietnam.
The true face of the dirty robber cannot conceal.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Alfa-Fighter

Well that time Vietnam dont have powerful weapons which they can buy , in even of war they can get Barhmos ASM which can be fired from Land and from ship and within secs surface ship gone ........ a powerful missile which can move chinese Navy 300 km away. 

BTW currently company is producing missile and indian Army , Navy and Air force liked it and ordered it in huge quantity, might be 300 + will be possessed by Navy alone for 150 ships it can take down at a time. 2 for each ships.

After fulfilling indian orders then it go for other countries which russia approves.



HongWu said:


> China needs to prove nothing. We are the most powerful nation in East Asia and we make the law. Either you obey or else like those brave but stupid Viets in 1988 Johnson Reef feed fishes
> 
> [video]www.youtube.com/watch?v=uq30CY9nWE8[/video]



Well after US 60% ships roam in South China see , then we will see who will crib.....

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## T-Rex

HongWu said:


> China needs to prove nothing. We are the most powerful nation in East Asia and we make the law. Either you obey or else like those brave but stupid Viets in 1988 Johnson Reef feed fishes
> 
> [video]www.youtube.com/watch?v=uq30CY9nWE8[/video]



*China should tread carefully in South China Sea. Russia's recent moves look suspicious to me. I won't be surprised if the Russians strike a secret deal with the americans and the Vietnamese. Russia might betray China at a crucial moment. China's best bet is to somehow lure Taiwan into this dispute. That will neutralize the american input in this whole affair. Russia alone won't make any difference.*


----------



## asean_2015

By chance, I found some new maps.






1850&#28165;&#20108;&#20140;&#21313;&#20843;&#30465;&#33286;&#22320;&#22270;




1935&#20013;&#33775;&#27665;&#22283;&#20840;&#22294;




1935




1911-1949&#20013;&#33775;&#27665;&#22283;&#20840;&#22294;




1911




1908&#22823;&#28165;&#24093;&#22269;&#20840;&#22270; &#23459;&#32479;&#20803;&#24180;




1907&#22823;&#28165;&#24093;&#22283;&#20998;&#30465;&#31934;&#22294;




1936&#25919;&#27835;&#21312;&#22495;&#22294;

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## asean_2015

1908&#22823;&#28165;&#24093;&#22269;&#20840;&#22270;




1908&#22823;&#28165;&#24093;&#22269;&#20840;&#22270;




&#22823;&#28165;&#24093;&#22283;&#20998;&#30465;&#31934;&#22294;




&#22823;&#28165;&#24093;&#22283;&#20998;&#30465;&#31934;&#22294;

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## dunhill

Based on those maps has been posted, I don't see any China 9-dots-claims. *Where is it - never has one*?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Martian2

*U.S. goes to great lengths to avoid offending China*

2nd US warship sold to Philippines also stripped of guns - Yahoo! News Philippines

"*2nd US warship sold to Philippines also stripped of guns*
Asia News NetworkBy Dona Z. Pazzibugan in Manila/Philippine Daily Inquirer | Asia News Network &#8211; Tue, May 22, 2012

Manila (Philippine Daily Inquirer/ANN) - Washington has turned down Manila's request to retain the entire weapons system in the second US Coast Guard cutter the Philippines is acquiring from the United States.

Top Filipino military officials flew to the US last weekend for the ceremonial turnover on May 23 of the 378-ft USCG Dallas in North Charleston, South Carolina.

According to Defense Secretary Voltaire Gazmin, the second cutter will also have most of its weapons removed as happened with the first cutter acquired from the US by the Philippine Navy last year.

In the case of what is now the BRP Gregorio del Pilar, all its weapons were removed except for a 76-mm Oto Melara automatic cannon.

In a meeting in Washington on April 30, Gazmin personally asked his counterpart, US Defense Secretary Leon Panetta, to keep the USCG Dallas in its original state and to restore the weapons that were removed from its sister ship, the Gregorio del Pilar.

The Gregorio del Pilar is currently the biggest and most modern warship in the Philippine Navy fleet which still relies on World War II-vintage vessels.

Symbolic turnover

Armed Forces of the Philippines Chief of Staff General Jessie Dellosa and Philippine Navy Fleet commander Rear Admiral Jose Luis Alano will take possession of the Dallas during a symbolic turnover on Wednesday.

The vessel will be renamed the BRP Ramon Alcaraz, after the World War II hero and former fleet commander, and will be under the command of Navy Captain Ernesto Baldovino.

In April 1942, Alcaraz was commander one of the Philippines' three torpedo boats that shot down three of nine attacking Japanese fighter planes.

After the turnover, the Philippine Navy crew will undergo training before they sail the ship home to the Philippines."

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Martian2

dunhill said:


> Based on those maps has been posted, I don't see any China 9-dots-claims. *Where is it - never has one*?



The Chinese nine-dashed-lines map is based on the Chinese 12th century map shown below and the 1712-1721 map from the Qing Dynasty.

----------

*Spratly Islands have belonged to China since ancient times*

Ocean-faring Chinese explorers had claimed the Spratly Islands a thousand years ago.

[Source: Wikipedia article on Spratly Islands with primary sources listed in footnotes]

"Ancient Chinese maps record the "Thousand Li Stretch of Sands"; Qianli Changsha (&#21315;&#37324;&#38263;&#27801 and the "Ten-Thousand Li of Stone Pools"; Wanli Shitang (&#33836;&#37324;&#30707;&#22616,[7] which China today claims refers to the Spratly Islands. The Wanli Shitang have been explored by the Chinese since the Yuan Dynasty and may have been considered by them to have been within their national boundaries. [8][9] They are also referenced in the 13th century,[10] followed by the Ming Dynasty.[11] When the Ming Dynasty collapsed, the Qing Dynasty continued to include the territory in maps compiled in 1724,[12] 1755,[13] 1767,[14] 1810,[15] and 1817.[16] A Vietnamese map from 1834 also includes the Spratly Islands clumped in with the Paracels (a common occurrence on maps of that time) labeled as "Wanli Changsha".[17]"





By the twelfth century, names for the South China Sea islands began to appear. The Paracels and the Spratlys were referred to more consistently as Changsha and Shitang. By the mid-fourteenth century, Shitang could be accurately identified as the Spratlys. There is also evidence of Chinese naval control over some areas of the South China Sea, which resulted in complete Chinese dominion of the South China Sea in the late thirteenth century. Finally, in the fifteenth century, Zheng He's seven voyages placed the South China Sea islands on the official navigational charts. In this map, the Xisha Islands are called Shitang, and the Nansha Islands are referred to as Wansheng Shitang Yu.





The Map of South and East Ocean Sea Routes was drawn in between 1712-1721 by Qing (Ching) Dynasty Fujian (Fuchien) Province Navy Commander Shi Shibiao, the son of a famous Qing Dynasty imperial officer. This map clearly shows the sea routes, time, and descriptions from Chinese coastal ports to Japan, Laos, Vietnam, Indonesia, Brunei, Cambodia and the Philippines. On this map, the locations and names of the Southern Sea Islands (Nanhai Zhudao) are very accurate. The map shows Chinese sovereignty over the South China&#12288;Sea islands (including Nansha Islands, Xisha Islands, Zhongsha Islands and Dongsha Islands).





1834 Vietnamese map showed the islands as Chinese "Wanli Changsha."

[Note: Thank you to HuziHaidao12 for the first two pictures and captions.]

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## 3starsandasun

You ancestors just named it for their navigation. It doesnt mean it is yours. The Malay race, which comprises the majority of the ASEAN, probably was the first to discover the islands and named it as well for navigation.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Martian2

3starsandasun said:


> You ancestors just named it for their navigation. It doesnt mean it is yours. The Malay race, which comprises the majority of the ASEAN, probably was the first to discover the islands and named it as well for navigation.



You have no maps or government records to prove your speculation. You might as well claim Martians discovered it first, instead of Malays.

China has government records, maps, Chinese bones on the South China Sea islands, Chinese artifacts (such as distinctive Chinese pottery/bowls), and distinctive Chinese-built wells on the South China Sea islands.

You only have speculation. You lose. Those South China Sea islands are Chinese.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## 3starsandasun

Martian2 said:


> You have no maps or government records to prove your speculation. You might as well claim Martians discovered it first, instead of Malays.
> 
> China has government records, maps, Chinese bones on the South China Sea islands, Chinese artifacts (such as distinctive Chinese pottery/bowls), and distinctive Chinese-built wells on the South China Sea islands.
> 
> You only have speculation. You lose. Those South China Sea islands are Chinese.



Use them and present them in the proper forum - international arbitration.

Nah you wont. You'll be bitchslapped there by a lowly 3rd world Filipino representative.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Martian2

3starsandasun said:


> Use them and present them in the proper forum - international arbitration.
> 
> Nah you wont. You'll be bitchslapped there by a lowly 3rd world Filipino representative.



International arbitration is for legitimate disputes. The Philippines doesn't have a leg to stand on. You do not arbitrate islands that have belonged to China for 2,000 years. It's like saying you want to arbitrate Taiwan. The idea is preposterous.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## 3starsandasun

You just dont respect anyone's EEZ that is why you for you our countries' dispute is not legitimate. You'll lose the legal battle against us. Your only hope is to project naval power. Just the same, we have our backs covered by civilized nations. Who do you have? A very civilized North Korea? You lose.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

Martian2 said:


> The Chinese nine-dashed-lines map is based on the Chinese 12th century map shown below and the 1712-1721 map from the Qing Dynasty.
> 
> ----------
> 
> *Spratly Islands have belonged to China since ancient times*
> 
> Ocean-faring Chinese explorers had claimed the Spratly Islands a thousand years ago.
> 
> [Source: Wikipedia article on Spratly Islands with primary sources listed in footnotes]
> 
> "Ancient Chinese maps record the "Thousand Li Stretch of Sands"; Qianli Changsha (&#21315;&#37324;&#38263;&#27801 and the "Ten-Thousand Li of Stone Pools"; Wanli Shitang (&#33836;&#37324;&#30707;&#22616,[7] which China today claims refers to the Spratly Islands. The Wanli Shitang have been explored by the Chinese since the Yuan Dynasty and may have been considered by them to have been within their national boundaries. [8][9] They are also referenced in the 13th century,[10] followed by the Ming Dynasty.[11] When the Ming Dynasty collapsed, the Qing Dynasty continued to include the territory in maps compiled in 1724,[12] 1755,[13] 1767,[14] 1810,[15] and 1817.[16] A Vietnamese map from 1834 also includes the Spratly Islands clumped in with the Paracels (a common occurrence on maps of that time) labeled as "Wanli Changsha".[17]"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the twelfth century, names for the South China Sea islands began to appear. The Paracels and the Spratlys were referred to more consistently as Changsha and Shitang. By the mid-fourteenth century, Shitang could be accurately identified as the Spratlys. There is also evidence of Chinese naval control over some areas of the South China Sea, which resulted in complete Chinese dominion of the South China Sea in the late thirteenth century. Finally, in the fifteenth century, Zheng He's seven voyages placed the South China Sea islands on the official navigational charts. In this map, the Xisha Islands are called Shitang, and the Nansha Islands are referred to as Wansheng Shitang Yu.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Map of South and East Ocean Sea Routes was drawn in between 1712-1721 by Qing (Ching) Dynasty Fujian (Fuchien) Province Navy Commander Shi Shibiao, the son of a famous Qing Dynasty imperial officer. This map clearly shows the sea routes, time, and descriptions from Chinese coastal ports to Japan, Laos, Vietnam, Indonesia, Brunei, Cambodia and the Philippines. On this map, the locations and names of the Southern Sea Islands (Nanhai Zhudao) are very accurate. The map shows Chinese sovereignty over the South China&#12288;Sea islands (including Nansha Islands, Xisha Islands, Zhongsha Islands and Dongsha Islands).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1834 Vietnamese map showed the islands as Chinese "Wanli Changsha."
> 
> [Note: Thank you to HuziHaidao12 for the first two pictures and captions.]



Stop lies.
The book written in China, printed 1961 about Zheng He's voyages included the map, it showed that he was'nt in Islands of Vietnam.
In the past chinese acepted East Sea (SCS) belong to Vietnam.* Old map of China stated &#20132;&#22336;&#27915;, Sea of Giao Ch&#7881;*, Giao Chi (Kochi) was old name of Vietnam.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Martian2

There are 2,000 years of Chinese imperial records and maps. Chinese skeletons were physically discovered on the South China Sea islands. The Chinese pottery/bowls were also found on the South China Sea islands.

Some of the larger South China Sea islands have Chinese-built wells.

The evidence is overwhelming and irrefutable.

Want me to start going through them one by one? I can give you screen captures from the documentary videos of the archaeological digs on the South China Sea islands. Some of the Chinese-built wells have been there a long time.

I have never heard of an old Vietnamese or Filipino well on any of the South China Sea islands.

Below, I have provided a citation of Chinese relics from the Yuan Dynasty (1271-1368) found near Hsisha Islands in the South China Sea. Can any Vietnamese or Filipino provide a reputable citation of Vietnamese or Filipino relics in the South China Sea that predates 1368? If you can't, you have just admitted to Chinese sovereignty over the South China Sea islands.

----------

http://www.chinatravel.ws/china-guide/chinese-archeology/

"*32 cultural relics discovered in South China Sea*






Archaeological teams have discovered Yuan dynasty blue and white porcelain for the first time in the South China Sea along with 32 newly-discovered ancient sites near Hsisha Islands, the 2010 South China Sea underwater archaeological team announced on June 1.

After 35 days of underwater archaeological work, South China Sea underwater archaeology team discovered 32 underwater cultural relics and found blue and white porcelain of Yuan Dynasty in South China Sea for the first time.

Source&#65306;Xinhua News"

[Note: China's Yuan Dynasty was from 1271-1368 (see http://www.travelchinaguide.com/intro/history/yuan/)]

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## 3starsandasun

Martian2 said:


> There are 2,000 years of Chinese imperial records and maps. Chinese skeletons were physically discovered on the South China Sea islands. The Chinese pottery/bowls were also found on the South China Sea islands.
> 
> Some of the larger South China Sea islands have Chinese-built wells.
> *
> The evidence is overwhelming and irrefutable.*
> 
> Want me to start going through them one by one? I can give you screen captures from the documentary videos of the archaeological digs on the South China Sea islands. Some of the Chinese-built wells have been there a long time.
> 
> I have never heard of an old Vietnamese or Filipino well on any of the South China Sea islands.
> 
> Below, I have provided a citation of Chinese relics from the Yuan Dynasty (1271-1368) found near Hsisha Islands in the South China Sea. Can any Vietnamese or Filipino provide a reputable citation of Vietnamese or Filipino relics in the South China Sea that predates 1368? If you can't, you have just admitted to Chinese sovereignty over the South China Sea islands.
> 
> ----------
> 
> Chinese Archeology,chinese civilization
> 
> "*32 cultural relics discovered in South China Sea*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Archaeological teams have discovered Yuan dynasty blue and white porcelain for the first time in the South China Sea along with 32 newly-discovered ancient sites near Hsisha Islands, the 2010 South China Sea underwater archaeological team announced on June 1.
> 
> After 35 days of underwater archaeological work, South China Sea underwater archaeology team discovered 32 underwater cultural relics and found blue and white porcelain of Yuan Dynasty in South China Sea for the first time.
> 
> Source&#65306;Xinhua News"
> 
> [Note: China's Yuan Dynasty was from 1271-1368 (see China Yuan Dynasty (1271-1368), Mongolian, Kublai Khan, Emperors)]



So you're telling us now that you have evidence? Bring it and use it as evidence to back up your claims in the international arbitration. Make us shut up. But then again you wont. You'll prefer to use of $100 billion worth of ammunitions instead of just a piece of paper map to back up your claims. Why? Because your government knows that it has no value in the present world. Stop living in the past.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

Martian2 said:


> There are 2,000 years of Chinese imperial records and maps. Chinese skeletons were physically discovered on the South China Sea islands. The Chinese pottery/bowls were also found on the South China Sea islands.
> 
> Some of the larger South China Sea islands have Chinese-built wells.
> 
> The evidence is overwhelming and irrefutable.
> 
> Want me to start going through them one by one? I can give you screen captures from the documentary videos of the archaeological digs on the South China Sea islands. Some of the Chinese-built wells have been there a long time.
> 
> I have never heard of an old Vietnamese or Filipino well on any of the South China Sea islands.
> 
> Below, I have provided a citation of Chinese relics from the Yuan Dynasty (1271-1368) found near Hsisha Islands in the South China Sea. Can any Vietnamese or Filipino provide a reputable citation of Vietnamese or Filipino relics in the South China Sea that predates 1368? If you can't, you have just admitted to Chinese sovereignty over the South China Sea islands.
> 
> ----------
> 
> Chinese Archeology,chinese civilization
> 
> "*32 cultural relics discovered in South China Sea*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Archaeological teams have discovered Yuan dynasty blue and white porcelain for the first time in the South China Sea along with 32 newly-discovered ancient sites near Hsisha Islands, the 2010 South China Sea underwater archaeological team announced on June 1.
> 
> After 35 days of underwater archaeological work, South China Sea underwater archaeology team discovered 32 underwater cultural relics and found blue and white porcelain of Yuan Dynasty in South China Sea for the first time.
> 
> Source&#65306;Xinhua News"
> 
> [Note: China's Yuan Dynasty was from 1271-1368 (see China Yuan Dynasty (1271-1368), Mongolian, Kublai Khan, Emperors)]



There are the relices of goods of trading vessels brought from China to India or Middle East, was broken in consequence of storms on the sea.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Martian2

Rechoice said:


> There are the relices of goods of trading vessels brought from China to India or Middle East, was broken in consequence of storms on the sea.



These relics are also found on the South China Sea islands themselves along with buried Chinese skeletons.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

Martian2 said:


> These relics are also found on the South China Sea islands themselves along with buried Chinese skeletons.



Relics belong to goods of trading vessels from India. Middle East are broken by stroms, skletons is not evident they are chinese controled tha Islands in the past, if it any with ADN, there was sailors of such India or Arab ships.
Chinese skeletons buried, is available in Hanoi, Dongda hill, where Qing Man soldiers was killed when they invaded Hanoi. Tr&#7853;n &#272;&#7889;ng &#272;a - Th&#259;ng Long (30/1/1789).

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Martian2

*French oil company Elf discovered 15th century Chinese galleon in South China Sea*

BBC News | Asia-Pacific | Undersea treasure chest stirs up tensions

"Undersea treasure chest stirs up tensions
Thursday, April 29, 1999 Published at 20:40 GMT 21:40 UK
By David Willis in the South China Sea





The discovery has drawn huge crowds to Brunei's national museum

Shipwrecked treasure, recently recovered from the bottom of the South China Sea, is threatening to inflame a diplomatic row over an area believed to be rich in oil.

Divers working for the French oil company Elf, stumbled across the wreck of a 15th Century Chinese galleon containing a hoard of priceless porcelain and ceramic pieces.





Divers working for an oil company stumbled across the wreck

The ship went down off the coast of Brunei and is thought to contain one of the largest hauls of buried treasure ever uncovered.

Using the same two-seater submarine as those used to survey the Titanic, archaeologists uncovered an Aladdin's Cave of intricately painted ancient pottery.

For more than two months, a daily haul of hundreds of artefacts were hauled to the surface. Back on land, a vast hanger was built to clean and catalogue the discoveries, thought to be worth millions of dollars.
*
Timeless beauty*





The treasure haul is thought to be worth millions

"It's a fascinating project," says John Perry, Managing Director of Elf Petroleum Asia.

"The artefacts themselves, in their day may have been ordinary things in the street but today they have a timeless beauty, which is so hard to define but so real to touch."

For Brunei, a nation keen to lessen its dependence on oil revenue, the discovery has become a source of new national pride.

The artefacts provide the tiny sultanate with something money alone cannot buy - symbols of a cultural identity which, officials hope, will boost tourism.
*
Historical claims*





Hundreds of items each day have been recovered

*But the discovery of a series of such wrecks has been seized upon by China as evidence reinforcing its historical claims on the South China Sea.

Beijing says the discoveries prove Chinese vessels have been sailing the area since ancient times.
*
Five other countries in the region also lay claim to all or part of area's maritime territory - in particular to the Spratly Islands, which are reputed to hold the key to a much needed new source of oil. (article continues)"

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

Martian2 said:


> There are 2,000 years of Chinese imperial records and maps. Chinese skeletons were physically discovered on the South China Sea islands. The Chinese pottery/bowls were also found on the South China Sea islands.
> 
> Some of the larger South China Sea islands have Chinese-built wells.
> 
> The evidence is overwhelming and irrefutable.
> 
> Want me to start going through them one by one? I can give you screen captures from the documentary videos of the archaeological digs on the South China Sea islands. Some of the Chinese-built wells have been there a long time.
> 
> I have never heard of an old Vietnamese or Filipino well on any of the South China Sea islands.
> 
> Below, I have provided a citation of Chinese relics from the Yuan Dynasty (1271-1368) found near Hsisha Islands in the South China Sea. Can any Vietnamese or Filipino provide a reputable citation of Vietnamese or Filipino relics in the South China Sea that predates 1368? If you can't, you have just admitted to Chinese sovereignty over the South China Sea islands.
> 
> ----------
> 
> Chinese Archeology,chinese civilization
> 
> "*32 cultural relics discovered in South China Sea*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Archaeological teams have discovered Yuan dynasty blue and white porcelain for the first time in the South China Sea along with 32 newly-discovered ancient sites near Hsisha Islands, the 2010 South China Sea underwater archaeological team announced on June 1.
> 
> After 35 days of underwater archaeological work, South China Sea underwater archaeology team discovered 32 underwater cultural relics and found blue and white porcelain of Yuan Dynasty in South China Sea for the first time.
> 
> Source&#65306;Xinhua News"
> 
> [Note: China's Yuan Dynasty was from 1271-1368 (see China Yuan Dynasty (1271-1368), Mongolian, Kublai Khan, Emperors)]



LOL who can certify that your archaeological relics have been unearthed from the Paracel islands and Spratly Islands of Vietnam?
If the Chinese to Bach Dang River estuary, I'm sure they'll dig a lot of rotted woods from ships, skulls and bones of the Chinese, ceramic plates and bowls ... were left from 938 or 1288. And no small part of them were drifted at sea.



> In Lý-Tr&#7847;n Dynasty era, the problems of construction the naval base, set up the naval forces were in place. Specially, the Van Don port has an important role to protect the northeast sea of Vietnam. In 1077, the Vietnamese Navy fought the Battle of C&#7847;u River against the Chinese Song Dynasty forces. This was the final battle China's Song Dynasty would fight on Vietnamese land or waters. The battle lasted for several months, and ended with the victory of the Vietnamese Navy and the loss of many Song's (Chinese) sailors. This victory demonstrated the successful tactics of war and active defense of the famous Admiral Lý Th&#432;&#7901;ng Ki&#7879;t who faced a naval force several times larger than his own.[2] The Song Dynasty lost a total of 80,000 soldiers/sailors and 5,19 million ounces of gold, including all costs of the war.[3]
> *The largest battles (officially recorded in history) were three naval battles (all three are called Battle of B&#7841;ch &#272;&#7857;ng): Ngô Quy&#7873;n against the Chinese Southern Han forces in 938 (killed over 100,000 and captured a thousands Chinese sailors, killed Chinese Prince Liu Hongcao);[4] Lê Hoàn against Song Dynasty in 981; and Tr&#7847;n Qu&#7889;c Tu&#7845;n against Yuan Dynasty (Mongol) in 1288 (killed over 80,000 Yuan Mongol sailors, destroyed more than 400 Yuan ships, killed Sogetu, and captured Yuan Admiral Omar)*.[5]
> One of the greatest victories in Vietnamese Naval history was the Battle of R&#7841;ch G&#7847;m-Xoài Mút in Tay Son dynasty, during which Nguy&#7877;n Hu&#7879; (Emperor Quang Trung) defeated the Siamese (Thai) naval force. The battle occurred in present-day Ti&#7873;n Giang Province on January 19, 1785. Nguy&#7877;n Hu&#7879;'s forces completely destroyed over 50,000 Siamese sailors and 300 warships.[6]

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

Martian2 said:


> *French oil company Elf discovered 15th century Chinese galleon in South China Sea*
> 
> BBC News | Asia-Pacific | Undersea treasure chest stirs up tensions
> 
> "Undersea treasure chest stirs up tensions
> Thursday, April 29, 1999 Published at 20:40 GMT 21:40 UK
> By David Willis in the South China Sea
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The discovery has drawn huge crowds to Brunei's national museum
> 
> Shipwrecked treasure, recently recovered from the bottom of the South China Sea, is threatening to inflame a diplomatic row over an area believed to be rich in oil.
> 
> Divers working for the French oil company Elf, stumbled across the wreck of a 15th Century Chinese galleon containing a hoard of priceless porcelain and ceramic pieces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Divers working for an oil company stumbled across the wreck
> 
> The ship went down off the coast of Brunei and is thought to contain one of the largest hauls of buried treasure ever uncovered.
> 
> Using the same two-seater submarine as those used to survey the Titanic, archaeologists uncovered an Aladdin's Cave of intricately painted ancient pottery.
> 
> For more than two months, a daily haul of hundreds of artefacts were hauled to the surface. Back on land, a vast hanger was built to clean and catalogue the discoveries, thought to be worth millions of dollars.
> *
> Timeless beauty*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The treasure haul is thought to be worth millions
> 
> "It's a fascinating project," says John Perry, Managing Director of Elf Petroleum Asia.
> 
> "The artefacts themselves, in their day may have been ordinary things in the street but today they have a timeless beauty, which is so hard to define but so real to touch."
> 
> For Brunei, a nation keen to lessen its dependence on oil revenue, the discovery has become a source of new national pride.
> 
> The artefacts provide the tiny sultanate with something money alone cannot buy - symbols of a cultural identity which, officials hope, will boost tourism.
> *
> Historical claims*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hundreds of items each day have been recovered
> 
> *But the discovery of a series of such wrecks has been seized upon by China as evidence reinforcing its historical claims on the South China Sea.
> 
> Beijing says the discoveries prove Chinese vessels have been sailing the area since ancient times.
> *
> Five other countries in the region also lay claim to all or part of area's maritime territory - in particular to the Spratly Islands, which are reputed to hold the key to a much needed new source of oil. (article continues)"



Beijing think that the Chinese wrecks found at the bottom of the East Sea (SCS) were evidences to their claims in the East Sea (SCS)?  
OMG, LOL on Chinese! 

If everybody follow this logic, Europeans can claim sovereignty over all seas and all oceans.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## 3starsandasun

Wait! Martian2 is an armchair general and all of us are living in a mud hut. LOL!


----------



## tuankaqui

China slights international legislation when establishment of Sansha city.
The nine-dotted line( &#21335;&#28023;&#20061;&#27573;&#32447 infringe law United Nations Convention on Law of the Sea - UNCLOS.
There isn't china's juridical and historic base demonstrative that sansha.
The ancient maps of the china and europe endorsing island NamHai be terminally southern the china land. sansha is not china possession.
China dare not delimitted is autarchical by world court.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Martian2

*Chinese shipwreck from 15th century validates Chinese imperial records*

These historical Chinese shipwrecks and artifacts validate Chinese imperial records. Chinese imperial records do not discuss only trade routes and trade outposts that extend to Brunei. Chinese imperial records also describe the first discovery and claim of sovereignty over the South China Sea islands and maritime territories.

These historical wrecks provide additional support to authenticate Chinese imperial records.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## 3starsandasun

Use it as evidence. Otherwise, stop humiliating yourself... internationally. LOL!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Martian2

3starsandasun said:


> Use it as evidence. Otherwise, stop humiliating yourself... internationally. LOL!



No country is stupid enough to allow a bunch of non-relevant parties to vote on its indisputable 2,000-year-old sovereignty.

That is the same reason the U.S. always ignores the resolutions passed by the General Assembly at the United Nations and liberally uses its permanent veto to protect its allies, such as Israel.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## 3starsandasun

Indisputable my ***.


----------



## &#272;&#7843;o B&#7841;ch Long V&#7929;

Martian2 said:


> No country is stupid enough to allow a bunch of non-relevant parties to vote on its* indisputable* 2,000-year-old sovereignty.
> 
> That is the same reason the U.S. always ignores the resolutions passed by the General Assembly at the United Nations and liberally uses its permanent veto to protect its allies, such as Israel.



People around the world use the word "indisputable" to describe about one thing that clearly belongs to them and they have a strong base of evidences.
Chinese use the word "indisputable" to describe about anything which they don't even know how on earth they could have a base to claim it.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

asean_2015 said:


> By chance, I found some new maps.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1850&#28165;&#20108;&#20140;&#21313;&#20843;&#30465;&#33286;&#22320;&#22270;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1935&#20013;&#33775;&#27665;&#22283;&#20840;&#22294;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1935
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1911-1949&#20013;&#33775;&#27665;&#22283;&#20840;&#22294;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1911
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1908&#22823;&#28165;&#24093;&#22269;&#20840;&#22270; &#23459;&#32479;&#20803;&#24180;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1907&#22823;&#28165;&#24093;&#22283;&#20998;&#30465;&#31934;&#22294;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1936&#25919;&#27835;&#21312;&#22495;&#22294;



It is true that before 1947 the maps of China did not mention two archipelagos of Paracels and Spratlys of Vietnam, and the maps also did not have a weird U-shaped line known as "11 dotted line" or "9 dotted line".

It is easy to see that by look at the appearance of the Chinese on two archipelagos: *RoC appeared on the some islands of the two archipelagos in 1946 after it had received the task to disarm the Japanese troops. [In 1939 Japan had invaded the two archipelagos from Vietnam]*; *And PRC appeared only after it has used of force to rob the islands from Vietnam in 1974 and 1988. [Prior 1988, the PRC did not control any island in the Spratlys archipelago]*.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ComeAtMeBro

Let's just understand our chinese friends here

They can't read the truth, it's against their code of being a true chinese
It's either you agree with them or they will spew bullsht claims they called facts in their fantasy land

How to find a chinese
It's simple, they don't listen to other nation

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## asean_2015

Martian2 said:


> No country is stupid enough to allow a bunch of non-relevant parties to vote on its indisputable 2,000-year-old sovereignty.
> 
> That is the same reason the U.S. always ignores the resolutions passed by the General Assembly at the United Nations and liberally uses its permanent veto to protect its allies, such as Israel.


I though that Dao Bach Long Vy have educated you about 2000-year-old sovereignty in another topic. The ''maps'' you posted are only for fun, not the evidences. Now you repeat 2000-year-old sovereignty here. It is very pity.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Martian2

asean_2015 said:


> I though that Dao Bach Long Vy have educated you about 2000-year-old sovereignty in another topic. The ''maps'' you posted are only for fun, not the evidences. Now you repeat 2000-year-old sovereignty here. It is very pity.



How did Chinese galleons navigate the South China Sea if they didn't create ancient maps (like the ones below)?

Your stupid claim of fake Chinese maps makes no sense.

The South China Sea issue is pretty simple. We have physical proof of shipwrecked 12th and 13th century Chinese ships (from the Song and Yuan Dynasties) near the Paracel Islands. We also have a French-discovered 15th century Chinese galleon shipwreck off the coast of Brueni.

We know for a fact that China has been sailing, mapping, fishing, trading, and using the South China Sea islands and maritime territories at least as far back as the 12th or 15th century.

As far as I know, the advanced Chinese ocean sailing technology did not exist in Vietnam or the Philippines. Unless you Viets or Filipinos can point to a single ancient shipwreck, the evidence proves that you were technologically backward and landlocked.

You Viets and Filipinos could probably build a few simple rafts, but your people most certainly could not sail throughout the South China Sea like ancient Chinese.

The evidence points to only one conclusion. China is the first to discover, map, sail, claim, and use the South China Sea islands and maritime territories.

----------

*Spratly Islands have belonged to China since ancient times*

Ocean-faring Chinese explorers had claimed the Spratly Islands a thousand years ago.

[Source: Wikipedia article on Spratly Islands with primary sources listed in footnotes]

"Ancient Chinese maps record the "Thousand Li Stretch of Sands"; Qianli Changsha (&#21315;&#37324;&#38263;&#27801 and the "Ten-Thousand Li of Stone Pools"; Wanli Shitang (&#33836;&#37324;&#30707;&#22616,[7] which China today claims refers to the Spratly Islands. The Wanli Shitang have been explored by the Chinese since the Yuan Dynasty and may have been considered by them to have been within their national boundaries. [8][9] They are also referenced in the 13th century,[10] followed by the Ming Dynasty.[11] When the Ming Dynasty collapsed, the Qing Dynasty continued to include the territory in maps compiled in 1724,[12] 1755,[13] 1767,[14] 1810,[15] and 1817.[16] A Vietnamese map from 1834 also includes the Spratly Islands clumped in with the Paracels (a common occurrence on maps of that time) labeled as "Wanli Changsha".[17]"




By the twelfth century, names for the South China Sea islands began to appear. The Paracels and the Spratlys were referred to more consistently as Changsha and Shitang. By the mid-fourteenth century, Shitang could be accurately identified as the Spratlys. There is also evidence of Chinese naval control over some areas of the South China Sea, which resulted in complete Chinese dominion of the South China Sea in the late thirteenth century. Finally, in the fifteenth century, Zheng He's seven voyages placed the South China Sea islands on the official navigational charts. In this map, the Xisha Islands are called Shitang, and the Nansha Islands are referred to as Wansheng Shitang Yu.




The Map of South and East Ocean Sea Routes was drawn in between 1712-1721 by Qing (Ching) Dynasty Fujian (Fuchien) Province Navy Commander Shi Shibiao, the son of a famous Qing Dynasty imperial officer. This map clearly shows the sea routes, time, and descriptions from Chinese coastal ports to Japan, Laos, Vietnam, Indonesia, Brunei, Cambodia and the Philippines. On this map, the locations and names of the Southern Sea Islands (Nanhai Zhudao) are very accurate. The map shows Chinese sovereignty over the South China&#12288;Sea islands (including Nansha Islands, Xisha Islands, Zhongsha Islands and Dongsha Islands).




1834 Vietnamese map showed the islands as Chinese "Wanli Changsha."

[Note: Thank you to HuziHaidao12 for the first two pictures and captions.]

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

The Chinese are often proud of they have a high IQ, but I doubt this because they give evidences and said that they found the chinese shipwreck undersea from 12-13 century and so it is pretext for they claim whole SCS and the islands on it. OMG! 

While all maps of China previous 1947 did not mention the islands as well as no the hell U-shaped line of their claims.

All the Chinese repeate that SCS is "history" waters of them because they have undersea shipwrecks. lol 

But the truth of the REAL historical evidences against them.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

In the past chinese acepted East Sea (SCS) belong to Vietnam. Old map of China stated &#20132;&#22336;&#27915;, Sea of Giao Ch&#7881;, Giao Chi (Kochi) was old name of Vietnam.


Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...ina-sea-news-discussions-7.html#ixzz229sLBGLo






In the past Vietnamese used Han characters to writing, referred to original name in Vietnamese: " Dao Cat Vang" to Paracel and "Bai Cat Vang" to Spratly, Hoang Sa and Van Ly Truong Sa (brifly Truong Sa, Truong is means Long, van li) names is in Han-Viet is matter when interpreted from originality of Viet word to Chinese Han characters. 

But chinese stated "Wanli Changsha." is Spratly, it is fake argument because spratly Islands is not so long to say it's wan-li (tens thousans miles). Chinese are liars.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Martian2

Rechoice said:


> *In the past chinese acepted East Sea (SCS) belong to Vietnam.* Old map of China stated &#20132;&#22336;&#27915;, Sea of Giao Ch&#7881;, Giao Chi (Kochi) was old name of Vietnam.
> 
> 
> Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...ina-sea-news-discussions-7.html#ixzz229sLBGLo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the past Vietnamese used Han characters to writing, referred to original name in Vietnamese: " Dao Cat Vang" to Paracel and "Bai Cat Vang" to Spratly, Hoang Sa and Van Ly Truong Sa (brifly Truong Sa, Truong is means Long, van li) names is in Han-Viet is matter when interpreted from originality of Viet word to Chinese Han characters.
> 
> But chinese stated "Wanli Changsha." is Spratly, it is fake argument because spratly Islands is not so long to say it's wan-li (tens thousans miles). Chinese are liars.



Show me a citation by the government of China to support your ridiculous claim.

On a professional defense forum, we do not make silly fantasy claims. You keep doing it. Now, I'm calling you on it.

Show me a citation from a mainstream reputable source (e.g. Xinhua, Global Times, People's Daily, or China Daily) to back up your incredible claim. If you can't, shut the hell up. You keep flooding this thread with your garbage claims.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## dunhill

Martian2 said:


> Show me a citation by the government of China to support your ridiculous claim.
> 
> On a professional defense forum, we do not make silly fantasy claims. You keep doing it. Now, I'm calling you on it.
> 
> *Show me a citation from a mainstream reputable source* (e.g. Xinhua, Global Times, People's Daily, or China Daily) to back up your incredible claim. *If you can't, shut the hell up*. You keep flooding this thread with your garbage claims.



What? huh? duh !!!

You wanted all sources from *China* that you called out *REPUTABLE*? The people should *SHUT UP* that would be *YOU*.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Martian2

*Prove your ridiculous claim or else*

Prove your claim that "In the past chinese acepted East Sea (SCS) belong to Vietnam." I've seen you repeat this lie at least five times now.

If you can't, I will demand a retraction.

If you cannot prove it, I will request that the moderators ban you if you keep spreading lies.

The Chinese government represent Chinese. You claim: "In the past chinese acepted East Sea (SCS) belong to Vietnam."

Now prove it.

I want to see a citation from a mainstream Chinese government source that specifies which Chinese government official said it, when he said it, and his exact words.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## dunhill

Martian2 said:


> *Prove your ridiculous claim or else*
> 
> Prove your claim that "In the past chinese acepted East Sea (SCS) belong to Vietnam." I've seen you repeat this lie at least five times now.
> 
> If you can't, I will demand a retraction.
> 
> If you cannot prove it, I will request that the moderators ban you if you keep spreading lies.
> 
> The Chinese government represent Chinese. You claim: "In the past chinese acepted East Sea (SCS) belong to Vietnam."
> 
> Now prove it.
> 
> I want to see a citation from a mainstream Chinese government source that specifies which Chinese government official said it, when he said it, and his exact words.



Martian2: 

I don't read Chinese script on those maps has been up for this topic. I belief that you can read your own letter, then you will know for sure what is legit of the maps already has PROVED.

When you play loose cool then you got backfire. That's just a matter of fact. OK?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## starbuck

Martian2 said:


> Show me a citation from a mainstream *reputable source *(e.g. *Xinhua, Global Times, People's Daily, or China Daily*) to back up your incredible claim. If you can't, shut the hell up. You keep flooding this thread with your garbage claims.



Haha, are you JOKING all members of an international forum? )



ComeAtMeBro said:


> Sansha city (it's not even a city anyway) is fake and illegal in the eyes of the rest of the world
> Of course, chinese wouldn't accept it
> 
> And why do chinese always like to bring back the history?
> This race is actually stuck in ancient era



Friends, even they want to bring back the history, Vietnamese with confidence will show their "historical evidences" are fake, unbelievable and no value to have!

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Martian2

*I demand proof for a repeated lie that is important if true*

No. I demand proof or a retraction from Rechoice.

You are free to state your personal opinion. However, when you claim a fact by the government of China, you better back it up with a solid citation or retract your statement.

I was tolerant and let him get away with it a few times. Since he insists on repeating the lie, I demand proof.

To my knowledge, the Chinese government has never relinquished sovereignty over the South China Sea. It is completely absurd for Vietnamese Rechoice to claim: "In the past chinese acepted East Sea (SCS) belong to Vietnam."

You made the same claim over and over again. Now prove it.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## dunhill

Martian2 said:


> *I demand proof for a repeated lie that is important if true*
> 
> No. I demand proof or a retraction from Rechoice.
> 
> You are free to state your personal opinion. However, when you claim a fact by the government of China, you better back it up with a solid citation or retract your statement.
> 
> I was tolerant and let him get away with it a few times. Since he insists on repeating the lie, I demand proof.
> 
> *To my knowledge, the Chinese government has never relinquished sovereignty over the South China Sea. It is completely absurd for Vietnamese Rechoice to claim: "In the past chinese acepted East Sea (SCS) belong to Vietnam.*"
> 
> You made the same claim over and over again. Now prove it.



What I understand and also for the rest people that what China's own it will shows base on the map. For example: Hainan Island is on China maps and in every single maps, World maps included that stated "Hainan Belong to China"

So, that make very clear Hainan is belong to China and no other claims is needed to be done. Will you accepting when Viet Nam claims Beijing was belong to Viet Nam? That's really absurd right?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## SpiritHS

ChinaToday said:


> With coloured banners, saluting soldiers and the national anthem playing loud and clear, China threw a birthday party yesterday for its newest city - on a tiny island in the very middle of the disputed South China Sea.
> Sansha City is on Yongxing Island, less than a square mile in size and not big enough to accommodate its own airstrip - which extends into the sea either side.
> It has a small permanent population of fishermen - the rest of its 1,000 residents are police, soldiers and government workers who work on the island in 'tours of duty'.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are few 'civilian' buildings - a supermarket here, a hospital there - and fresh water has to be shipped in from China's southernmost province in a 13-hour supply mission.
> But China is clearly proud of its new addition, and made a point that the world knew of its arrival.
> Unlike most birthday parties, though, the neighbours were not invited.
> 
> That is because Sansha City represents China's expanding toehold in the world's most disputed waters, portions of which are also claimed by Vietnam, the Philippines and Taiwan
> 
> Beijing has created the city administration to oversee hundreds of thousands of square miles of water where it wants to strengthen its control.
> The Philippines said it does not recognise the city or its jurisdiction, and Vietnam said China's actions violated international law. The U.S. has also voiced its concern over 'unilateral moves' in the South China Sea, where it says collective diplomacy is needed to resolve competing claims.
> Yongxing Island, formerly Woody Island, is 220 miles southeast from China's tropical Hainan Island
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even the name of the island is disputed among its neighbours - Vietnam refers to it as Phu Lam Island.
> China approved Sansha City to 'consolidate administration' over the Paracel island chain, of which Yongxing is a part, and the nearby Spratly island chain and the Macclesfield Bank - a large, completely submerged atoll that boasts rich fishing grounds that is also claimed by Taiwan and the Philippines.
> Vietnam and China both claim the Paracels, and both would have to slug it out with the Philippines, Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan to claim all or parts of the Spratlys.
> China claims virtually the entire South China Sea and its island groups, and its disputes occasionally erupt into open confrontation.
> 
> And it's not just for the good fishing. The sea is one of the world's busiest commercial shipping lanes, and sits on a potential mother load of oil and gas deposits.
> Official broadcaster China Central Television aired Tuesday morning's formal establishment ceremony live from Sansha, with speeches from the new mayor and other officials.
> Plaques for the Sansha Municipal Government and the Sansha Municipal Committee of the Communist Party of China were unveiled on a white-columned government building.
> Mayor Xiao Jie trumpeted Sansha's important role in protecting China's sovereignty. He said the designation of Sansha as a new city was 'a wise decision made by the party and the government of China to protect the sovereign rights of China, and to strengthen the protection and the development of natural resources'.
> The official Xinhua News Agency reported earlier that Sansha's jurisdiction covers just five square miles of land, including other islands and atolls in the South China Sea around Yongxing.
> Crucially, the jurisdiction also covers more than 750,000 square miles of surrounding waters.
> 
> Yongxing translates to 'eternal prosperity', and Sansha means 'three sandbanks' - an apparent reference to the Chinese names for the disputed island chains and atoll - West, South and Middle Banks (or Xisha, Nansha and Zhongsha).
> A description from a former People's Liberation Army officer who was among the officials overseeing the island before Sansha was established paints a picture of a harsh and isolated post where officials rotate staffing for a month at a time.
> 
> Tan Xiankun, director of the office in Hainan overseeing Xisha and other South China Sea territories, said: 'The living conditions are pretty simple. It's very humid and hot, more than 30 degrees, and there's salt everywhere. There's no fresh water, except for what's shipped in and what's collected from rain water.'
> Philippines Department of Foreign Affairs spokesman Raul Hernandez said Manila had expressed its concern and registered a strong protest with Beijing over the decision to set up
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He said: 'The Philippines does not recognise the Sansha City and the extent of its jurisdiction, and considers recent measures taken by China as unacceptable.
> Vietnam's Foreign Ministry spokesman, Luong Thanh Nghi, said Vietnam had protested to the Chinese foreign ministry as well.
> A statement said: 'China's establishment of the so-called Sansha City violated international law, seriously violating Vietnam sovereignty over the Paracel and Spratly archipelagos.'
> And U.S. State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland said: 'We remain concerned should there be any unilateral moves of this kind that would seem to prejudge an issue that we have said repeatedly can only be solved by negotiations, by dialogue and by a collaborative diplomatic process among all the claimants.'
> As China was celebrating its new city, the International Crisis Group think tank released a report saying that the south China Sea was becoming an arena that could easily see armed conflict.
> Its report stated: 'South East Asian claimants, with Vietnam and the Philippines in the forefront, are now more forcefully defending their claims - and enlisting outside allies - with considerable energy.'
> The 'outside allies' is a clear reference to Washington's move to influence the Asian balance of power by supporting China's neighbours.
> The report ominously concluded that 'tensions in the South China Sea
> 
> 
> Read more: China celebrates 'birthday' of Sansha, a new city at the heart of disputed South China Sea (of course, the neighbours weren't invited) | Mail Online
> 
> So beautiful and happy birthday to our new city



flag of Japan, the United Kingdom, Portugal ..., has been flying like this on Chinese territory. Invading imperialists will pay the price for this folly.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## EastSea

SpiritHS said:


> flag of Japan, the United Kingdom, Portugal ..., has been flying like this on Chinese territory. Invading imperialists will pay the price for this folly.









Chinese like it ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## &#272;&#7843;o B&#7841;ch Long V&#7929;

Martian2 said:


> *Prove your ridiculous claim or else*
> 
> Prove your claim that "In the past chinese acepted East Sea (SCS) belong to Vietnam." I've seen you repeat this lie at least five times now.
> 
> If you can't, I will demand a retraction.
> 
> If you cannot prove it, I will request that the moderators ban you if you keep spreading lies.
> 
> The Chinese government represent Chinese. You claim: "In the past chinese acepted East Sea (SCS) belong to Vietnam."
> 
> Now prove it.
> 
> I want to see a citation from a mainstream Chinese government source that specifies which Chinese government official said it, when he said it, and his exact words.



May God save the King! Is that a CHINESE who was talking about "evidence"?   
Wow, it's real, wowww, oh My Majesty, His Majesty, Her Majesty, Whoever Majesty... woww Impossible! Oh my God, oh my Goat, oh my God-Emperor! Oh my Angel, Oh my Devil, Oh my Lucifer, Oh my Hitler!! It's even Martian2  UNBELIEVABLE  

To make use of the rarest moment in the history when you are talking about evidence, I have something to remind you:
1) http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...el-spratly-not-chinese-territory-13.html#post
2) Your "2000-year-old claim" in Han, Tang, Yuan or whatever dynasty. Show me now. I have been waiting for a year.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## gpit

Rechoice said:


> In the past chinese acepted East Sea (SCS) belong to Vietnam. Old map of China stated &#20132;&#22336;&#27915;, Sea of Giao Ch&#7881;, Giao Chi (Kochi) was old name of Vietnam.
> 
> 
> Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...ina-sea-news-discussions-7.html#ixzz229sLBGLo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the past Vietnamese used Han characters to writing, referred to original name in Vietnamese: " Dao Cat Vang" to Paracel and "Bai Cat Vang" to Spratly, Hoang Sa and Van Ly Truong Sa (brifly Truong Sa, Truong is means Long, van li) names is in Han-Viet is matter when interpreted from originality of Viet word to Chinese Han characters.
> 
> But chinese stated "Wanli Changsha." is Spratly, it is fake argument because spratly Islands is not so long to say it's wan-li (tens thousans miles). Chinese are liars.


 
LOL!

In the past Vietnam was part of China, so every thing Vietnam is China's.




More, &#20132;&#22336;&#27915; is the "map" has obviously different font from the rest. It can be well faked by VN government.


Answer my question that I posted 100 times: how many your internet Vietnamese understand Chinese language? 

How many of you have read your history books namely &#12298;&#23433;&#21335;&#24535;&#30053;&#12299;&#12289;&#12298;&#22823;&#36234;&#21490;&#35760;&#20840;&#20070;&#12299;&#12289;&#12298;&#22823;&#36234;&#21490;&#30053;&#12299;&#12289;&#12298;&#36234;&#21490;&#36890;&#37492;&#32434;&#30446;&#12299;&#12289;&#12298;&#21382;&#26397;&#23466;&#31456;&#31867;&#24535;&#12299;&#12289;&#12298;&#22823;&#21335;&#23454;&#24405;&#12299;?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## EastSea

gpit said:


> LOL!
> 
> In the past Vietnam was part of China, so every thing Vietnam is China's.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More, &#20132;&#22336;&#27915; is the "map" has obviously different font from the rest. It can be well faked by VN government.
> 
> 
> Answer my question that I posted 100 times: how many your internet Vietnamese understand Chinese language?
> 
> How many of you have read your history books namely &#12298;&#23433;&#21335;&#24535;&#30053;&#12299;&#12289;&#12298;&#22823;&#36234;&#21490;&#35760;&#20840;&#20070;&#12299;&#12289;&#12298;&#22823;&#36234;&#21490;&#30053;&#12299;&#12289;&#12298;&#36234;&#21490;&#36890;&#37492;&#32434;&#30446;&#12299;&#12289;&#12298;&#21382;&#26397;&#23466;&#31456;&#31867;&#24535;&#12299;&#12289;&#12298;&#22823;&#21335;&#23454;&#24405;&#12299;?



Chinese invaded, occupied temporally time to time. Vietnamese have been wiped you chinese invaders at the end by 938 year, Viets regained our independence. It's our history.

Japanese invaded in to China, Controlled Taiwan and 1/3 territory of China temporally. What do you think ? Japan can claim all area of East China Sea ? Idiot chinese you are. 
(&#20132;&#22336;&#27915 Giao Chi Sea belong to (&#20132;&#22336;&#20154;&#27665 Giao Chi People.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## &#272;&#7843;o B&#7841;ch Long V&#7929;

EastSea said:


> Chinese invaded, occupied temporally time to time. Vietnamese have been wiped you chinese invaders at the end by 938 year, Viets regained our independence. It's our history.
> 
> Japanese invaded in to China, Controlled Taiwan and 1/3 territory of China temporally. What do you think ? Japan can claim all area of East China Sea ? Idiot chinese you are.
> (&#20132;&#22336;&#27915 Giao Chi Sea belong to (&#20132;&#22336;&#20154;&#27665 Giao Chi People.



Mongolia had just taken all lands of China. So just give them the whole China.
Nah I don't think name is a good argument. Vietnamese people never use such weak argument. We have a lot of stronger evidences. Let chinese use that weak argument, because it's the only one they've got there.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## dunhill

China has *no evidences* at all, and so far China just like self-make up with a very big-thick mask on it faces.


----------



## &#272;&#7843;o B&#7841;ch Long V&#7929;

dunhill said:


> China has *no evidences* at all, and so far China just like self-make up with a very big-thick mask on it faces.



Yes, they never have evidences, but they do have weak argument, such as the "name". 
That kind of argument is stupid and ridiculous... Indian Ocean, Japan Sea, ...blah blah blah ...If you know what I mean

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Martian2

*China builds its military infrastructure in the South China Sea*





AFP/Getty Images - *A newly constructed radar dome on Chinese-controlled Subi Reef*, around 15 nautical miles northwest of the Philippine-controlled Pag-asa Islands on the disputed Spratly Islands.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## dunhill

Martian2 said:


> *China builds its military infrastructure in the South China Sea*
> 
> 
> AFP/Getty Images - *A newly constructed radar dome on Chinese-controlled Subi Reef*, a*round 15 nautical miles northwest of the Philippine*-controlled Pag-asa Islands on the disputed Spratly Islands.




See, you just prove for China that its has nothing besides using its fits. Funny thing that China always cries baby about U.S this .. U.S that ...

China already jump in the case then fights, that the only option for China to gets out the case *if* it wins.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## dunhill

&#272;&#7843;o B&#7841;ch Long V&#7929;;3256986 said:


> Yes, they never have evidences, but they do have weak argument, such as the "name".
> That kind of argument is stupid and ridiculous... Indian Ocean, Japan Sea, ...blah blah blah ...If you know what I mean



Yeah, I know exactly what you meant. China claims the* ship wreck *in SCS, not so long ago, during Viet Nam chaos, most Vietnamese during that time named "boat people" ships wrecks from Philippines, Hongkong, Macau, Thailand, Indonesia, Singapore .... so Vietnam has right to claims them all?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Martian2

dunhill said:


> See, you just prove for China that its has nothing besides using its fits. Funny thing that China always cries baby about U.S this .. U.S that ...
> 
> China already jump in the case then fights, that the only option for China to gets out the case *if* it wins.



PLA Navy will finish the Endgame

Wake up. The discussion of history and ancient artifacts is merely to lay the groundwork for China's claim.

The PLA Navy has to assert China's historical claims. It means we have to blow you idiots out of the water. That's the endgame.

----------

*Red Flag over Sansha City -- Beijing Review*






China's Jurisdiction over the South China Sea

"*China's Jurisdiction over the South China Sea*
UPDATED: July-3-2012 NO. 27 JULY 5, 2012

- China first discovered and named the reefs, islets and the surrounding waters of the Xisha, Zhongsha and Nansha islands, and has exercised sovereignty control continuously over the area.

- In A.D.110, the government of the Han Dynasty (202 B.C.- A.D.220) set up a government agency on Hainan Island, which marks the beginning of central governance over Hainan Island and the islands in the South China Sea. At that time, Chinese people often navigated on the South China Sea and lived and fished around the Xisha Islands and the Nansha Islands.

- In A.D.971, the navy of the Northern Song Dynasty (960-1127) cruised the Xisha Islands. This was the earliest record of China's naval patrol in the area.

- In the Yuan Dynasty (1271-1369), Emperor Kubla Khan sent astronomer Guo Shoujing to conduct astronomical observations in the Zhongsha Islands, which evidenced the government's sovereignty over the area.

- In 1911, the Guangdong Provincial Government of the Republic of China proclaimed that the Xisha Islands were put under the jurisdiction of Hainan's Yaxian County (currently known as Sanya City).

- After the end of the World War II, according to the Postdam Declaration issued in July 1945 and the Cairo Declaration issued in 1947, the Republic of China sent high commissioners to the Xisha Islands from 1946 to 1948 to take over the archipelago. A takeover ceremony was held on the islands, and a monument was put up to assert China's sovereignty. The government also stationed army and set up a service station for fishermen on Taiping Island, the largest of its kind in the Nansha Islands.

- In March 1959, the Central Government of the People's Republic of China set up the administrative office for the Xisha, Nansha and Zhongsha islands, which was governed by Guangdong Province.

- In October 1984, Hainan Administrative Region was set up, which took over the administrative office.

- In April 1988, Hainan Province was set up and the administrative office was put under the province.

- In June 2012, the State Council approved the establishment of Sansha City, which governs the Xisha, Zhongsha and Nansha islands and their surrounding waters. Meanwhile the administrative office for the area was abolished."

[Note: Thank you to Greyboy2 for the newslinks.]

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Hellraiser007

If we consider Historical perspective chinese cannot claim these islands. China is a signatory of International Maritime Law what ever statements coming out of China are to get the attention of Chinese people and they are empty rheotrics. The fact is China is scared of military alliance between Russia,Japan and Vietnam.
The oil drilling done by Russia and India is vietnam's oil blocks is good move and it is a stepping stone for future alliance between India and Russia, Just like in 1971 Russia can act as counter weight to Chinese misadventures and similarly India can act as counterweight.
Add to that US,Vietnam and Japan. These Chinese who are fed up with CCP propaganda are becoming too much aggressive and this menace should be terminated at this phase and World powers realized this.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## EastSea

Martian2 said:


> PLA Navy will finish the Endgame
> 
> Wake up. The discussion of history and ancient artifacts is merely to lay the groundwork for China's claim.
> 
> The PLA Navy has to assert China's historical claims. It means we have to blow you idiots out of the water. That's the endgame.
> 
> ----------
> 
> *Red Flag over Sansha City -- Beijing Review*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China's Jurisdiction over the South China Sea
> 
> "*China's Jurisdiction over the South China Sea*
> UPDATED: July-3-2012 NO. 27 JULY 5, 2012
> 
> - China first discovered and named the reefs, islets and the surrounding waters of the Xisha, Zhongsha and Nansha islands, and has exercised sovereignty control continuously over the area.
> 
> - In A.D.110, the government of the Han Dynasty (202 B.C.- A.D.220) set up a government agency on Hainan Island, which marks the beginning of central governance over Hainan Island and the islands in the South China Sea. At that time, Chinese people often navigated on the South China Sea and lived and fished around the Xisha Islands and the Nansha Islands.
> 
> - In A.D.971, the navy of the Northern Song Dynasty (960-1127) cruised the Xisha Islands. This was the earliest record of China's naval patrol in the area.
> 
> - In the Yuan Dynasty (1271-1369), Emperor Kubla Khan sent astronomer Guo Shoujing to conduct astronomical observations in the Zhongsha Islands, which evidenced the government's sovereignty over the area.
> 
> - In 1911, the Guangdong Provincial Government of the Republic of China proclaimed that the Xisha Islands were put under the jurisdiction of Hainan's Yaxian County (currently known as Sanya City).
> 
> - After the end of the World War II, according to the Postdam Declaration issued in July 1945 and the Cairo Declaration issued in 1947, the Republic of China sent high commissioners to the Xisha Islands from 1946 to 1948 to take over the archipelago. A takeover ceremony was held on the islands, and a monument was put up to assert China's sovereignty. The government also stationed army and set up a service station for fishermen on Taiping Island, the largest of its kind in the Nansha Islands.
> 
> - In March 1959, the Central Government of the People's Republic of China set up the administrative office for the Xisha, Nansha and Zhongsha islands, which was governed by Guangdong Province.
> 
> - In October 1984, Hainan Administrative Region was set up, which took over the administrative office.
> 
> - In April 1988, Hainan Province was set up and the administrative office was put under the province.
> 
> - In June 2012, the State Council approved the establishment of Sansha City, which governs the Xisha, Zhongsha and Nansha islands and their surrounding waters. Meanwhile the administrative office for the area was abolished."
> 
> [Note: Thank you to Greyboy2 for the newslinks.]



China invaded Islands of Vietnam, same as Japan invaded China, Japan flag was in China.








&#272;&#7843;o B&#7841;ch Long V&#7929;;3256957 said:


> Mongolia had just taken all lands of China. So just give them the whole China.
> Nah I don't think name is a good argument. Vietnamese people never use such weak argument. We have a lot of stronger evidences. Let chinese use that weak argument, because it's the only one they've got there.



Chinese guys are low educated, I just do some comparations for easy understanding, bro. 
Thks.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## &#272;&#7843;o B&#7841;ch Long V&#7929;

Martian2 said:


> China's Jurisdiction over the South China Sea
> 
> "*China's Jurisdiction over the South China Sea*
> UPDATED: July-3-2012 NO. 27 JULY 5, 2012
> 
> - China first discovered and named the reefs, islets and the surrounding waters of the Xisha, Zhongsha and Nansha islands, and has exercised sovereignty control continuously over the area.
> 
> - In A.D.110, the government of the Han Dynasty (202 B.C.- A.D.220) set up a government agency on Hainan Island, which marks the beginning of central governance over Hainan Island and the islands in the South China Sea. At that time, Chinese people often navigated on the South China Sea and lived and fished around the Xisha Islands and the Nansha Islands.
> 
> - In A.D.971, the navy of the Northern Song Dynasty (960-1127) cruised the Xisha Islands. This was the earliest record of China's naval patrol in the area.
> 
> - In the Yuan Dynasty (1271-1369), Emperor Kubla Khan sent astronomer Guo Shoujing to conduct astronomical observations in the Zhongsha Islands, which evidenced the government's sovereignty over the area.
> 
> - In 1911, the Guangdong Provincial Government of the Republic of China proclaimed that the Xisha Islands were put under the jurisdiction of Hainan's Yaxian County (currently known as Sanya City).
> 
> - After the end of the World War II, according to the Postdam Declaration issued in July 1945 and the Cairo Declaration issued in 1947, the Republic of China sent high commissioners to the Xisha Islands from 1946 to 1948 to take over the archipelago. A takeover ceremony was held on the islands, and a monument was put up to assert China's sovereignty. The government also stationed army and set up a service station for fishermen on Taiping Island, the largest of its kind in the Nansha Islands.
> 
> - In March 1959, the Central Government of the People's Republic of China set up the administrative office for the Xisha, Nansha and Zhongsha islands, which was governed by Guangdong Province.
> 
> - In October 1984, Hainan Administrative Region was set up, which took over the administrative office.
> 
> - In April 1988, Hainan Province was set up and the administrative office was put under the province.
> 
> - In June 2012, the State Council approved the establishment of Sansha City, which governs the Xisha, Zhongsha and Nansha islands and their surrounding waters. Meanwhile the administrative office for the area was abolished."
> 
> [Note: Thank you to Greyboy2 for the newslinks.]



I will conclude your "arguments":
Discovery (but do nothing with sovereignty) -> Fishing (but do nothing with sovereignty) -> Someone passed there (but do nothing with sovereignty) -> Mongolian Occupation (also do nothing with sovereignty) -> 600 years without any sign -> First claim 200 years later than Vietnamese and while Vietnamese is controlling those islands.

You think you would be able to win in international court with those arguments?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Martian2

&#272;&#7843;o B&#7841;ch Long V&#7929;;3258801 said:


> I will conclude your "arguments":
> Discovery (but do nothing with sovereignty) -> Fishing (but do nothing with sovereignty) -> Someone passed there (but do nothing with sovereignty) -> Mongolian Occupation (also do nothing with sovereignty) -> 600 years without any sign -> First claim 200 years later than Vietnamese and while Vietnamese is controlling those islands.
> 
> You think you would be able to win in international court with those arguments?



*The battlefield is the only recourse*

China doesn't care about biased international courts. For example, look at the current defending world champion Ye Shiwen. She has passed drug tests and the Western media still shamelessly accuse her of doping. The international court is stacked with prejudiced western judges and China will never permit an anti-Chinese international court to intercede.

In the court of public opinion, everyone can see that the South China Sea islands belong to China. Now, China will defend her historical territory through military power (e.g. see Johnson Reef in 1988).

1. China tried talking. Vietnam and the Philippines have disregarded China's historical evidence. Just like Nehru in 1962.

2. China offered a reasonable joint-development deal. Vietnam and the Philippines have flatly rejected China's compromise, which the Japanese accepted for the East China Sea.

3. China will lets its guns and missiles do the talking. Nehru found out the hard way that China will defend its sovereignty. If talking doesn't work, fighting on the battlefield is the only recourse.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## &#272;&#7843;o B&#7841;ch Long V&#7929;

Martian2 said:


> *The battlefield is the only recourse*
> 
> China doesn't care about biased international courts. For example, look at the current defending world champion Ye Shiwen. She has passed drug tests and the Western media still shamelessly accuses her of doping. The international court is stacked with prejudiced western judges and China will never permit an anti-Chinese international court to intercede.
> 
> *In the court of public opinion, everyone can see that the South China Sea islands belong to China*. Now, China will defend her historical territory through military power (e.g. see Johnson Reef in 1988).
> 
> 1. China tried talking. Vietnam and the Philippines have disregarded China's *historical evidence*. Just like Nehru in 1962.
> 
> 2. China offered a reasonable joint-development deal. Vietnam and the Philippines have flatly rejected China's compromise, which the Japanese accepted for the East China Sea.
> 
> 3. China will lets its guns and missiles do the talking. Nehru found out the hard way that China will defend its sovereignty. If talking doesn't work, fighting on the battlefield is the only recourse.



Brainwashed propagator is talking about bullying again  
It should be: 
"In the court of public opinion in China and its vassals, everyone can see that the South China Sea islands belong to China. It's the result of a huge effort from a lot of brainwashed propagators like Martian2, who always provide invisible evidence that we can't even see it" 

How many times I have educated you about your *invisible* historical evidence(s)?



&#272;&#7843;o B&#7841;ch Long V&#7929;;3252434 said:


> "Your" islands?  So just tell me about the base of your buffalo's tongue claim
> 
> 1) Your argument about "2000-year-old claim" is ridiculous, you said you "discovered" those islands, but in fact the "discovery" has nothing to do with sovereignty. Look at Colombo and his country, Spain.
> 
> 2) We have a strong base of evidences to prove that we had sovereignty over those islands before 18th-19th century.
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...tly-not-chinese-territory-13.html#post3237586
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...tly-not-chinese-territory-25.html#post3249921
> 
> 
> 
> 3) There are many many maps from your gov before 193x which also don't have Paracel and Spartly:
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...lippines-if-china-attacks-11.html#post3244021
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...tly-not-chinese-territory-24.html#post3248733
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...tly-not-chinese-territory-24.html#post3248736
> 
> 1 or 2 maps isn't a problem. But so many maps is a different story
> 
> 4) Vietnam and Philippines have been asked you to go to international court, but you always avoid. Why? You know that you don't have evidence, so if you go there, you will loose. End of story
> 
> In conclusion, they have never be your islands, you just came and invaded them in 1956, 1974, 1988. So China is the thief, the robber, the bully.




If you want to invade, just come. Your fake air-craft will fall down automatically, we don't even need to use our Su-30MK2V.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Martian2

&#272;&#7843;o B&#7841;ch Long V&#7929;;3259422 said:


> Brainwashed propagator is talking about bullying again
> 
> It should be:
> "In the court of public opinion in China and its vassals, everyone can see that the South China Sea islands belong to China. It's the result of a huge effort from a lot of brainwashed propagators like Martian2, who always provide invisible evidence that we can't even see it"
> 
> How many times I have educated you about your *invisible* historical evidence(s)?
> 
> If you want to invade, just come. Your fake air-craft will fall down automatically, we don't even need to use our Su-30MK2V.
> 
> 4) Vietnam and Philippines have been asked you to go to international court, but you always avoid. Why? You know that you don't have evidence, so if you go there, you will loose. End of story
> 
> In conclusion, they have never be your islands, you just came and invaded them in 1956, 1974, 1988. So China is the thief, the robber, the bully.



*War to put Vietnamese in your place*

It doesn't matter if you repeat your lies a thousand or a million times. No one cares.

The only thing that matters is that your navy has to face the PLA Navy in the final battle. Johnson Reef in 1988 was only a preview. I expect the PLA Navy to lay waste to your entire Vietnamese naval forces and the South China Sea issue will be settled.

It took a war in 1962 to stop Nehru's Indian Forward Policy. Similarly, it will take a war to put you Vietnamese in your place.

----------

By the way, China's new weapon system will be ready in six short years (IOC for J-20 Mighty Dragon: 2018). I hope you guys are ready for Red Storm Rising.

*New photographs of J-20 Mighty Dragon "2002"*











More new pictures from the recent test flight (side weapon bay opened)















J-20 Mighty Dragon "2002" around July 31, 2012





From a distance, the J-20 "2002" looks like a compact fighter. It appears to be the J-10 Vigorous Dragon's bigger brother. This picture was taken during the 11th test flight around July 27, 2012.

[Note: Thank you to Greyboy2 for the pictures.]

----------





Another picture from a good angle.

[Note: Thank you to No_name for the picture.]

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## &#272;&#7843;o B&#7841;ch Long V&#7929;

Martian2 said:


> It doesn't matter if you repeat your lies a thousand or a million times. No one cares.



Everyone cares. Except brainwashed propagators.



> The only thing that matters is that your navy has to face the PLA Navy in the final battle. Johnson Reef in 1988 was only a preview. I expect the PLA Navy to lay waste to your entire Vietnamese naval forces and the South China Sea issue will be settled.



You can't engage Military Engineers all the time, so don't expect your luck in 1988 will happen again. This time we have Su-30MK2V, S-300, K-300 Bastion-P, Gepard 3.9, and later we will have Kilo 636 class submarine and maybe Amur class submarine. Oh, but I don't thing we will have to use our toys, because your fake aircrafts will fall down automatically.



> It took a war in 1962 to stop Nehru's Indian Forward Policy. Similarly, it will take a war to put you Vietnamese in your place.



Take a war like 1979

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## asean_2015

Martian2 said:


> *The battlefield is the only recourse*
> 
> China doesn't care about biased international courts. For example, look at the current defending world champion Ye Shiwen. She has passed drug tests and the Western media still shamelessly accuse her of doping. The international court is stacked with prejudiced western judges and China will never permit an anti-Chinese international court to intercede.
> 
> In the court of public opinion, everyone can see that the South China Sea islands belong to China. Now, China will defend her historical territory through military power (e.g. see Johnson Reef in 1988).
> 
> 1. China tried talking. Vietnam and the Philippines have disregarded China's historical evidence. Just like Nehru in 1962.
> 
> 2. China offered a reasonable joint-development deal. Vietnam and the Philippines have flatly rejected China's compromise, which the Japanese accepted for the East China Sea.
> 
> 3. China will lets its guns and missiles do the talking. Nehru found out the hard way that China will defend its sovereignty. If talking doesn't work, fighting on the battlefield is the only recourse.


1. The historical evidence of China your posted is only for fun. As one Vietnamese guy said Discovery (but do nothing with sovereignty) -> Fishing (but do nothing with sovereignty) -> Someone passed there (but do nothing with sovereignty). The Chinese map 1904 is a very strong evidence to show the sovereignty of China. 

2. One cannot offer what he/she does not have. 

3. Letting guns and missiles do the talking are the actions of a robber.

My comment: If the war between China and Vietnam happens, I guess you still sit beside your computer and fight behind the monitor. Each family in China has only a single child. Do you want Chinese families lose their children in order to invade other countries? It will be an very unjust war. I suppose many Vietnames guys in this forum lets knowledge, evidence of sovereignty, maps, documment ... do the talking since they want to avoid a war. But it does not mean that they are afraid of war if you look again at Vietnamese history.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Hellraiser007

Martian2 said:


> *War to put Vietnamese in your place*
> 
> It doesn't matter if you repeat your lies a thousand or a million times. No one cares.
> 
> The only thing that matters is that your navy has to face the PLA Navy in the final battle. Johnson Reef in 1988 was only a preview. I expect the PLA Navy to lay waste to your entire Vietnamese naval forces and the South China Sea issue will be settled.
> 
> It took a war in 1962 to stop Nehru's Indian Forward Policy. Similarly, it will take a war to put you Vietnamese in your place.
> 
> ----------
> 
> By the way, China's new weapon system will be ready in six short years (IOC for J-20 Mighty Dragon: 2018). I hope you guys are ready for Red Storm Rising.



Largely Untested technology, I doubt the Chinese even know the air battle doctrines. When it come to Battle it is China that is going to loose its edge and will go back to two decades and your CCP knows it that is the reason for empty rheotrics.
* Guys like you can be brain washed and can be sent as human bombs*

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## grandmaster

asean_2015 said:


> 1. The historical evidence of China your posted is only for fun. As one Vietnamese guy said Discovery (but do nothing with sovereignty) -> Fishing (but do nothing with sovereignty) -> Someone passed there (but do nothing with sovereignty). The Chinese map 1904 is a very strong evidence to show the sovereignty of China.
> 
> 2. One cannot offer what he/she does not have.
> 
> 3. Letting guns and missiles do the talking are the actions of a robber.
> 
> My comment: If the war between China and Vietnam happens, I guess you still sit beside your computer and fight behind the monitor. Each family in China has only a single child. Do you want Chinese families lose their children in order to invade other countries? It will be an very unjust war. I suppose many Vietnames guys in this forum lets knowledge, evidence of sovereignty, maps, documment ... do the talking since they want to avoid a war. But it does not mean that they are afraid of war if you look again at Vietnamese history.



- your reasoning is invalid. as what you said, you said discovery and fishing do not mean sovereignty, then the evidences that you vietnamese discovered and fshed on these islands have nothing to do with your sovereignty.
- second, as vietnamese said someone passed there would do nothing with sovereingty, therefore, the maps and whatever from the west that the vietnamese and filipino use to back your claims are invalid.
- third, "Letting guns and missiles do the talking are the actions of a robber". your are unreasonable yourself, since US did that on vietnam but vietnam does not say them robber, japanese did that to asia and vietnam, but vietnamese still tries to suck up japanse and american
-forth, map of 1904 you guys showed in this forum DID NOT show the sovereignty of vietnam on these islands either. it is baseless for vietnamese to claim like that.
- your comment show your vietnamese nature, that is biased and liar. how come you state that vietnamese wants to avoid war while threatening to kill all han people? you show your biased true face! yes, chinese people have only one child and that is why china doesnt want to go for war because they afraid of losing their children. in contrast, vietnamese people have many children, that is why vietnamese and filippino are so aggressive and threaten to wage against china!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## asean_2015

grandmaster said:


> - your reasoning is invalid. as what you said, you said discovery and fishing do not mean sovereignty, then the evidences that you vietnamese discovered and fshed on these islands have nothing to do with your sovereignty.
> - second, as vietnamese said someone passed there would do nothing with sovereingty, therefore, the maps and whatever from the west that the vietnamese and filipino use to back your claims are invalid.
> - third, "Letting guns and missiles do the talking are the actions of a robber". your are unreasonable yourself, since US did that on vietnam but vietnam does not say them robber, japanese did that to asia and vietnam, but vietnamese still tries to suck up japanse and american
> -forth, map of 1904 you guys showed in this forum DID NOT show the sovereignty of vietnam on these islands either. it is baseless for vietnamese to claim like that.
> - your comment show your vietnamese nature, that is biased and liar. how come you state that vietnamese wants to avoid war while threatening to kill all han people? you show your biased true face! yes, chinese people have only one child and that is why china doesnt want to go for war because they afraid of losing their children. in contrast, vietnamese people have many children, that is why vietnamese and filippino are so aggressive and threaten to wage against china!


1. I guess the envidences of Vietnam are maps and official documents, neither dicovering nor fishing. I am waiting for a new topic which proves Vietnamese water territory in more details.
2. I did not get your point but passing is not equal to a map. 
3. I suppose that if US, Japan or any country now uses guns and missiles to do the talking with Vietnam, Vietnemese guys will call them robber as well. What do you call them if they aim at your country?
4. You should read the title of that topic again. The map 1904 did not focus on the sovereignty of Vietnam. It proves the soverignty of China. I always say that the proves of Vietnames sovereignty should be put into another topic.
5. Fisrt, you should read again the comment of the Chinese guy you cited ''China will lets its guns and missiles do the talking''. Then you get to know who threaten to kill whom.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## NiceGuy

grandmaster said:


> - your reasoning is invalid. as what you said, you said discovery and fishing do not mean sovereignty, then the evidences that you vietnamese discovered and fshed on these islands have nothing to do with your sovereignty.
> - second, as vietnamese said someone passed there would do nothing with sovereingty, therefore, the maps and whatever from the west that the vietnamese and filipino use to back your claims are invalid.
> - third, "Letting guns and missiles do the talking are the actions of a robber". your are unreasonable yourself, since US did that on vietnam but vietnam does not say them robber, japanese did that to asia and vietnam, but vietnamese still tries to suck up japanse and american
> -forth, map of 1904 you guys showed in this forum DID NOT show the sovereignty of vietnam on these islands either. it is baseless for vietnamese to claim like that.
> - your comment show your vietnamese nature, that is biased and liar. how come you state that vietnamese wants to avoid war while threatening to kill all han people? you show your biased true face! yes, chinese people have only one child and that is why china doesnt want to go for war because they afraid of losing their children. in contrast, vietnamese people have many children, that is why vietnamese and filippino are so aggressive and threaten to wage against china!


If you're a real Pakistanis, you'd better find another ally now.No chinese care about a real collaboration with your country.


> Faced with such hyperbole, I flipped across to the website of the Peoples Daily to see what it had to say about Pakistan. At the time* I looked, there was no mention of Pakistan. It did however give prominence to a story about China and India holding a strategic dialogue* to build economic ties.
> ----------------------------------------
> For China, however, as Dr. Hoyt also points out, "*the costs of a closer relationship with Pakistan may outweigh the benefits."* Not only does China have no reason to complicate its relations with the US, India, and the central Asian states of Afghanistan, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan and the rest --- all of which feel victimized or threatened to one degree of another by Pakistan's support for aggressive Islamism. China itself has been the target of Islamists in its far western province of Sinkiang.
> 
> Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...-train-peacekeeping-forces.html#ixzz22VCMAnZb
> 
> Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...-train-peacekeeping-forces.html#ixzz22VBcBW7S

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Martian2

*Three Strikes against Vietnam*

1. The United States refuses to support Vietnam and has provided $0 military aid.

2. ASEAN refuses to issue a joint communique that mentions the South China Sea issue.

3. There is no U.N. resolution to indicate support for Vietnam.

In conclusion, the world has concluded China's historical evidence of first discovery and claim of the South China Sea islands and maritime territory is compelling. Through their actions, the world has shown that they believe China is the rightful owner of the South China Sea islands.


----------



## asean_2015

Martian2 said:


> *Three Strikes against Vietnam*
> 
> 1. The United States refuses to support Vietnam and has provided $0 military aid.
> 
> 2. ASEAN refuses to issue a joint communique that mentions the South China Sea issue.
> 
> 3. There is no U.N. resolution to indicate support for Vietnam.
> 
> In conclusion, the world has concluded China's historical evidence of first discovery and claim of the South China Sea islands and maritime territory is compelling. Through their actions, the world has shown that they believe China is the rightful owner of the South China Sea islands.


I think you should learn how to make a conclusion. Simply, if the world believe China as you said, why is China always afraid of bringing the problem to an international court?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Martian2

asean_2015 said:


> I think you should learn how to make a conclusion. Simply, if the world believe China as you said, why is China always afraid of bringing the problem to an international court?



I've already answered your question many times.

China has indisputable sovereignty over the South China Sea islands and maritime territories. For proof, see China's imperial records dating from the Han Dynasty (2,000 years ago) and onwards. Also, see 12th, 13th, and 15th century shipwrecks discovered near the South China Sea islands. Don't forget the Chinese skeletons, artifacts, and wells on the South China Sea islands.

The world agrees this is a slam dunk case in China's favor. Vietnam is a trespasser and agitator. The United States, ASEAN, and U.N. have shown no support whatsoever for Vietnam.


----------



## gpit

asean_2015 said:


> 1. The historical evidence of China your posted is only for fun. As one Vietnamese guy said Discovery (but do nothing with sovereignty) -> Fishing (but do nothing with sovereignty) -> Someone passed there (but do nothing with sovereignty). The Chinese map 1904 is a very strong evidence to show the sovereignty of China.
> 
> ...



LOL!

Do you know those Vietnamese put forward the 1904 map without knowing what the map is?

Do you know Vietnamese history is all written in Chinese?

Do you know I asked then more than 10 times: do you know Chinese/ Do you read your history books in it original forms?

Do you know none of them answered back?

LOL! let's image such a clownish scene: a history illiterate waving a map like mad claiming and raving. And a learnt person passes by, asking him: do you know the language on the map? 

That's the scenario how the illiterate is getting humiliated: a history-less illiterate brags about his history.

JOKE!

And seems you are on joker's side!  then enjoy it as everybody in the world can see those posts and those rantings.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## asean_2015

Martian2 said:


> I've already answered your question many times.
> 
> China has indisputable sovereignty over the South China Sea islands and maritime territories. For proof, see China's imperial records dating from the Han Dynasty (2,000 years ago) and onwards. Also, see 12th, 13th, and 15th century shipwrecks discovered near the South China Sea islands. Don't forget the Chinese skeletons, artifacts, and wells on the South China Sea islands.
> 
> The world agrees this is a slam dunk case in China's favor. Vietnam is a trespasser and agitator. The United States, ASEAN, and U.N. have shown no support whatsoever for Vietnam.


2000-year again. I wish you can show an evidence like a real single map of your ancestor (like the map 1904) to prove the water territory. Discovering, fishing or passing has no meaning for sovereignty.

Since United States, ASEAN, and U.N. have no support for Vietnam, why does China need to be afraid of an international court?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## gpit

Rechoice said:


> In the past chinese acepted East Sea (SCS) belong to Vietnam. Old map of China stated &#20132;&#22336;&#27915;, Sea of Giao Ch&#7881;, Giao Chi (Kochi) was old name of Vietnam.
> 
> 
> Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...ina-sea-news-discussions-7.html#ixzz229sLBGLo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the past Vietnamese used Han characters to writing, referred to original name in Vietnamese: " Dao Cat Vang" to Paracel and "Bai Cat Vang" to Spratly, Hoang Sa and Van Ly Truong Sa (brifly Truong Sa, Truong is means Long, van li) names is in Han-Viet is matter when interpreted from originality of Viet word to Chinese Han characters.
> 
> But chinese stated "Wanli Changsha." is Spratly, it is fake argument because spratly Islands is not so long to say it's wan-li (tens thousans miles). Chinese are liars.



You know nothing about Chinese language. Zero!

Li Bai the famous Chinese poet wrote: "&#30333;&#21457;&#19977;&#21315;&#19976;&#65292; &#32536;&#24833;&#20284;&#20010;&#38271;&#12290;" The first statement means white hair has 3000 &#19976; long. 1&#19976; is about 10 feet. Have you ever see hair 30000 feet long?

Dude, *what makes you so difficult to stop being a laughing stock in front of the world!*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Martian2

asean_2015 said:


> 2000-year again. I wish you can show an evidence like a real single map of your ancestor (like the map 1904) to prove the water territory. Discovering, fishing or passing has no meaning for sovereignty.
> 
> Since United States, ASEAN, and U.N. have no support for Vietnam, why does China need to be afraid of an international court?



*Naive Vietnamese*

You are incredibly naive.

Vietnam is staring down the barrel of the big guns of the PLA Navy (see 1998 Johnson Reef battle on YouTube for a reminder).

Vietnam desperately needs international military support to survive more than a few days against the Chinese military machine.

Rational Chinese are not going to let outsiders decide their indisputable sovereignty. An international court has no jurisdiction.

In fact, the United States and China do not recognize the International Criminal Court (see United States and the International Criminal Court - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). So you see, there is no international criminal court.

Also, the International Court of Justice only issues advisory opinions, which are not binding (see What is the World Court and where is it located?).

Vietnam is left with China's mountain of evidence of historical sovereignty and the PLA Navy's guns. Either way, China's sovereignty over the South China Sea is indisputable.


----------



## Rechoice

gpit said:


> You know nothing about Chinese language. Zero!
> 
> Li Bai the famous Chinese poet wrote: "&#30333;&#21457;&#19977;&#21315;&#19976;&#65292; &#32536;&#24833;&#20284;&#20010;&#38271;&#12290;" The first statement means white hair has 3000 &#19976; long. 1&#19976; is about 10 feet. Have you ever see hair 30000 feet long?
> 
> Dude, *what makes you so difficult to stop being a laughing stock in front of the world!*



stop lying. it's &#24066;&#19976;, (tr&#432;&#7907;ng unit). I talken about Ly, (D&#7863;m unit), &#24066;&#37324;.
In the map of Vietnam it's stating in Han character (in the past when Viet used Han characters to writing like Japanese do until now), the name is: &#33836;&#37324;&#38263;&#27801;. Its *&#24066;&#37324;*. 1 &#24066;&#37324; (d&#7863;m) = 500 m. The meaning òf the name of Islands Spratly (Truong Sa in Vietnamese) is the Islands group very long, including archipelago reefs, ...

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## dunhill

Rechoice said:


> *stop lying*. it's &#24066;&#19976;, (tr&#432;&#7907;ng unit). I talken about D&#7863;m unit, &#24066;&#37324;.
> In the map of Vietnam it's stating in Han character (in the past when Viet used Han characters to writing like Japanese do until now), the name is: &#33836;&#37324;&#38263;&#27801;. Its *&#24066;&#37324;*. 1 &#24066;&#37324; (d&#7863;m) = 500 m. The meaning òf the name of Islands Spratly (Truong Sa in Vietnamese) is the Islands group very long, including archipelago reefs, ...



Why do you asked him to *quit *his job anyway? I like him, martian2, SinoChallenger, Hongwu, .... and a few more. They are my stress relief.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## grandmaster

asean_2015 said:


> 1. I guess the envidences of Vietnam are maps and official documents, neither dicovering nor fishing. I am waiting for a new topic which proves Vietnamese water territory in more details.
> 2. I did not get your point but passing is not equal to a map.
> 3. I suppose that if US, Japan or any country now uses guns and missiles to do the talking with Vietnam, Vietnemese guys will call them robber as well. What do you call them if they aim at your country?
> 4. You should read the title of that topic again. The map 1904 did not focus on the sovereignty of Vietnam. It proves the soverignty of China. I always say that the proves of Vietnames sovereignty should be put into another topic.
> 5. Fisrt, you should read again the comment of the Chinese guy you cited ''China will lets its guns and missiles do the talking''. Then you get to know who threaten to kill whom.



-if vietnam did not have anyone or official to manage and control these islands in 1904 then no one said vietnam had official sovereignty over these islands in this year. your maps are useless to prove your claims.
-you pretend not to get the point that backfires your reasoning! we can understand that. no problem!
-not yet any country use missile with vietnam. lets say the USA and Nato send missile to Afghanistan, dare vietnam officially say them robber in UN? in your case, china doesnt aim at vietnam, china aim to protect their islands or disputed islands if you want. cant tell them robber, but vietnam to china is robber! your logic is flawed!
-vietnamese guys want to kill all han people! it is hard to believe vietnam doesnt threaten china

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## &#272;&#7843;o B&#7841;ch Long V&#7929;

grandmaster said:


> 1) your reasoning is invalid. as what you said, you said discovery and fishing do not mean sovereignty, then the evidences that you vietnamese discovered and fshed on these islands have nothing to do with your sovereignty.
> 2) second, as vietnamese said someone passed there would do nothing with sovereingty, therefore, the maps and whatever from the west that the vietnamese and filipino use to back your claims are invalid.
> 3) third, "Letting guns and missiles do the talking are the actions of a robber". your are unreasonable yourself, since US did that on vietnam but vietnam does not say them robber, japanese did that to asia and vietnam, but vietnamese still tries to suck up japanse and american
> 4) forth, map of 1904 you guys showed in this forum DID NOT show the sovereignty of vietnam on these islands either. it is baseless for vietnamese to claim like that.
> 5) your comment show your vietnamese nature, that is biased and liar. how come you state that vietnamese wants to avoid war while threatening to kill all han people? you show your biased true face! yes, chinese people have only one child and that is why china doesnt want to go for war because they afraid of losing their children. in contrast, vietnamese people have many children, that is why vietnamese and filippino are so aggressive and threaten to wage against china!



1+2) We never use discovering, fishing, passing to claim sovereignty. We use ancient maps, documents which tell clearly about "sovereignty" and "management". 
3) It's chinese brainwashed propagators who told about "gun fire" first. We only said that: if you still want to attack us, just come, we will defend our motherland.
4) one map is not a problem. If every map before 193x missed Paracels, it's such a big problem.
5) We only said that: if you still want to attack us, just come, we will defend our motherland. I don't know how on earth our statement is known as a "threat to kill han people".

Our evidences (click on those links)


&#272;&#7843;o B&#7841;ch Long V&#7929;;3252434 said:


> "Your" islands?  So just tell me about the base of your buffalo's tongue claim
> 
> 1) Your argument about "2000-year-old claim" is ridiculous, you said you "discovered" those islands, but in fact the "discovery" has nothing to do with sovereignty. Look at Colombo and his country, Spain.
> 
> 2) We have a strong base of evidences to prove that we had sovereignty over those islands before 18th-19th century.
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...tly-not-chinese-territory-13.html#post3237586
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...tly-not-chinese-territory-25.html#post3249921
> 
> 
> 
> 3) There are many many maps from your gov before 193x which also don't have Paracel and Spartly:
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...lippines-if-china-attacks-11.html#post3244021
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...tly-not-chinese-territory-24.html#post3248733
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...tly-not-chinese-territory-24.html#post3248736
> 
> 1 or 2 maps isn't a problem. But so many maps is a different story
> 
> 
> 4) Vietnam and Philippines have been asked you to go to international court, but you always avoid. Why? You know that you don't have evidence, so if you go there, you will loose. End of story
> 
> In conclusion, they have never be your islands, you just came and invaded them in 1956, 1974, 1988. So China is the thief, the robber, the bully.





grandmaster said:


> -if vietnam did not have anyone or official to manage and control these islands in 1904 then no one said vietnam had official sovereignty over these islands in this year. your maps are useless to prove your claims.
> -you pretend not to get the point that backfires your reasoning! we can understand that. no problem!
> -not yet any country use missile with vietnam. lets say the USA and Nato send missile to Afghanistan, dare vietnam officially say them robber in UN? in your case, china doesnt aim at vietnam, china aim to protect their islands or disputed islands if you want. cant tell them robber, but vietnam to china is robber! your logic is flawed!
> -vietnamese guys want to kill all han people! it is hard to believe vietnam doesnt threaten china



1) We send "Paracel Team" to control those islands at least since 17xx. We pitched the flag there in 1816. Westerners in 18,19th Century all said "Paracels is depended on An Nam empire" or "Paracels is a feature of Cochinchina kingdom".

2) Fire back is illegal?
3) Vietnam, according to China and its influenced countries (Pakistan, Cambodia, North Korea...), is a robber. Thanks to the effort of brainwashed propagators like Martian2 and gpit, who always talk about China's invisible evidence which we can't even see it. But according to the rest of the world like Japan, India, Philippines, Russia, US..., China is the one who is bullying smaller nations in South China Sea.
4) We want to kill han chinese invaders if they attack our motherland. Is it a threat when you compare to HongWu and some other chinese who always want to nuke Vietnam?
------
@all: don't feed Martian2 and gpit, make those brainwashed propagators troll themselves.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## grandmaster

&#272;&#7843;o B&#7841;ch Long V&#7929;;3264979 said:


> 1+2) We never use discovering, fishing, passing to claim sovereignty. We use ancient maps, documents which tell clearly about "sovereignty" and "management".
> 3) It's chinese brainwashed propagators who told about "gun fire" first. We only said that: if you still want to attack us, just come, we will defend our motherland.
> 4) one map is not a problem. If every map before 193x missed Paracels, it's such a big problem.
> 5) We only said that: if you still want to attack us, just come, we will defend our motherland. I don't know how on earth our statement is known as a "threat to kill han people".
> 
> Our evidences (click on those links)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1) We send "Paracel Team" to control those islands at least since 17xx. We pitched the flag there in 1816. Westerners in 18,19th Century all said "Paracels is depended on An Nam empire" or "Paracels is a feature of Cochinchina kingdom".
> 
> 2) Fire back is illegal?
> 3) Vietnam, according to China and its influenced countries (Pakistan, Cambodia, North Korea...), is a robber. Thanks to the effort of brainwashed propagators like Martian2 and gpit, who always talk about China's invisible evidence which we can't even see it. But according to the rest of the world like Japan, India, Philippines, Russia, US..., China is the one who is bullying smaller nations in South China Sea.
> 4) We want to kill han chinese invaders if they attack our motherland. Is it a threat when you compare to HongWu and some other chinese who always want to nuke Vietnam?
> ------
> @all: don't feed Martian2 and gpit, make those brainwashed propagators troll themselves.



your english is very limited! what you have tried to prove is that china map did not show these islands. that is all and nothing more than that. that is normal. and somehow, chinese people can find any vietnam's map without these islands, then they can prove the same thing to vietnam. and all the maps you show did not prove vietnam had sovereignty over these islands.

you are very lying when you pretent and did not recite what vietnamese guys said that vietnam sent troops to cambodia to kill all chinese people in cambodia and thailand.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## dunhill

grandmaster said:


> your english is very limited! what you have tried to prove is that china map did not show these islands. that is all and nothing more than that. that is normal. and somehow, chinese people can find any vietnam's map without these islands, then they can prove the same thing to vietnam. and all the maps you show did not prove vietnam had sovereignty over these islands.
> 
> *you are very liar* when you pretent and did not recite what vietnamese guys said that* vietnam sent troops to cambodia to kill all chinese people in cambodia and thailand.*




Wait a minute, before you can tell him as a liar then you have to do very first 2 things:

1./ He did on his side that to prove whatever he demand to provide that the other can not. Even you too, base on the thing you just said/posted on your own opinion.

2./ You have to prove that yourself not to become as a liar, once you just said "Vietnam sent troops to Cambodia, Thailand to kill all Chinese people" This you have to prove, to convince that yourself as an honor with fully evidence.

Can you do that? If you can do, I'll will take his place (if him allow) due to you claim "His English very limited).

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## &#272;&#7843;o B&#7841;ch Long V&#7929;

grandmaster said:


> your english is very limited! what you have tried to prove is that china map did not show these islands. that is all and nothing more than that. that is normal. and somehow, chinese people can find any vietnam's map without these islands, then they can prove the same thing to vietnam. and all the maps you show did not prove vietnam had sovereignty over these islands.
> 
> you are very lying when you pretent and did not recite what vietnamese guys said that vietnam sent troops to cambodia to kill all chinese people in cambodia and thailand.



1) You have just avoided my evidences from ancient texts and maps.
2) I have said that: one map (or some maps) that do not have Paracels is not a problem. But every map before 193x missed Paracels, it's such a big problem.
*China don't have a single map that has Paracels before 193x. We have maps from 17xx, 18xx that have Paracels. It's the difference.* Clear?
3). You need source to prove that "Vietnamese come to Cambodia, Thailand to kill chinese people"

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## grandmaster

&#272;&#7843;o B&#7841;ch Long V&#7929;;3265087 said:


> 1) You have just avoided my evidences from ancient texts and maps.
> 2) I have said that: one map (or some maps) that do not have Paracels is not a problem. But every map before 193x missed Paracels, it's such a big problem.
> *China don't have a single map that has Paracels before 193x. We have maps from 17xx, 18xx that have Paracels. It's the difference.* Clear?
> 3). You need source to prove that "Vietnamese come to Cambodia, Thailand to kill chinese people"



here we go, what did the vietnamese admit?
http://www.defence.pk/forums/chines...eady-patrols-disputed-seas-9.html#post3121270

what you said like is like this:


NiceGuy said:


> The truth was what you took from us are just unimportant islands and shoals, they're completely have No use , killing chinese in Camb-Laos-Thailand and looted their properties from 1979 to 1988 is much better idea

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

grandmaster said:


> here we go, what did the vietnamese admit?
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/chines...eady-patrols-disputed-seas-9.html#post3121270
> 
> what you said like is like this:



It's your "source"?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## &#272;&#7843;o B&#7841;ch Long V&#7929;

grandmaster said:


> here we go, what did the vietnamese admit?
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/chines...eady-patrols-disputed-seas-9.html#post3121270
> what you said like is like this:



That kind of source? Oh well, so look at my signature, your chinese friends even want to rule the world 


Chinese Century said:


> when china speaks, the world listens!
> 
> you know why?
> 
> because this is china's world, everybody else just lives in it!


And you have accepted the fact that chinese "invisible historical evidences" are just for fun

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## dunhill

grandmaster said:


> here we go, what did the vietnamese admit?
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/chines...eady-patrols-disputed-seas-9.html#post3121270
> 
> what you said like is like this:



*Granmaster:* 

Thank you for your hard trying to provide what I asked you, but seems to me that is *not enough* and c*oncrete* for so-called evidence will back you up for whatever you just said from your previous posted.

Let me ask you this before we could go any futher: "If you see 1 people of any nations has something wrong, or abnormal, will you consider that person is represent for the entire of that/this nation?"

It must be nice that you'll looks for me a credibility of the sources from other nations said that "We are loves to kill Han's people or same statement what NiceGuy did" then I believe in you.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## grandmaster

dunhill said:


> *Granmaster:*
> 
> Thank you for your hard trying to provide what I asked you, but seems to me that is *not enough* and c*oncrete* for so-called evidence will back you up for whatever you just said from your previous posted.
> 
> Let me ask you this before we could go any futher: "If you see 1 people of any nations has something wrong, or abnormal, will you consider that person is represent for the entire of that/this nation?"
> 
> It must be nice that you'll looks for me a credibility of the sources from other nations said that "We are loves to kill Han's people or same statement what NiceGuy did" then I believe in you.



oh, OK! you are so illogic upon asking other nations about what vietnamese people do. otherwise, i.e if your logic is true, then i would do what you said and ask cambodia or china what vietnam did. yeah, there are a bunch of chinese guys in this forum! what that vietnamese Niceguy said and talked showed clearly the propaganda/information he got into his/her mind!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## dunhill

grandmaster said:


> oh, OK! you are so *illogic* upon asking other nations about what vietnamese people do. otherwise, i.e if your logic is true, then i would do what you said and ask cambodia or china what vietnam did. yeah, there are a bunch of chinese guys in this forum! what that vietnamese Niceguy said and talked showed clearly the propaganda/information he got into his/her mind!



Come on, I wish you are better than that for any conditions. So far, what I see at you that some kind of bias. I don't blame you, I respect what you think that is right, but I confidence that *YOU* are not represent for all Pakistanis, even though you worn that Pakistan flag.

Ever since you have *not enough evidence* to backing up your statement, I considering that you are *failed*. Have a nice w/end.

Hope next time or anytime *before* you tell anyone as a liar, you have to get enough that to convince them as a liar. Otherwise, that is not nice shots.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Alfa-Fighter

Martian2 said:


> I've already answered your question many times.
> 
> China has indisputable sovereignty over the South China Sea islands and maritime territories. For proof, see China's imperial records dating from the Han Dynasty (2,000 years ago) and onwards. Also, see 12th, 13th, and 15th century shipwrecks discovered near the South China Sea islands. Don't forget the Chinese skeletons, artifacts, and wells on the South China Sea islands.
> 
> The world agrees this is a slam dunk case in China's favor. Vietnam is a trespasser and agitator. The United States, ASEAN, and U.N. have shown no support whatsoever for Vietnam.



Well for your information, before Chinese started building ships , India , Malaysia and other south east asian countries do commerce trade on ships which uses south china sea. Moreover first Chinese travelled on Malay ship on sea.

May be your History on seas started at 2000 years back (Han era) but long before 2000 years ships of Malay sails over their. Therefore claim made by china is on bogus history. 

World dont agree with you, why you created and live in false impression that world is with you?



dunhill said:


> *Granmaster:*
> 
> Thank you for your hard trying to provide what I asked you, but seems to me that is *not enough* and c*oncrete* for so-called evidence will back you up for whatever you just said from your previous posted.
> 
> Let me ask you this before we could go any futher: "If you see 1 people of any nations has something wrong, or abnormal, will you consider that person is represent for the entire of that/this nation?"
> 
> It must be nice that you'll looks for me a credibility of the sources from other nations said that "We are loves to kill Han's people or same statement what NiceGuy did" then I believe in you.



Well India drilling on the block with Vietnam which claim also sought for auction, which means India didn't consider that area belong to china like other countries of the world.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## &#272;&#7843;o B&#7841;ch Long V&#7929;

grandmaster said:


> oh, OK! you are so illogic upon asking other nations about what vietnamese people do. otherwise, i.e if your logic is true, then i would do what you said and ask cambodia or china what vietnam did. yeah, there are a bunch of chinese guys in this forum! what that vietnamese Niceguy said and talked showed clearly the propaganda/information he got into his/her mind!



So go and ask your chinese friends about their "World Domination Plan" 


Chinese Century said:


> when china speaks, the world listens!
> 
> you know why?
> 
> because this is china's world, everybody else just lives in it!



 

I haven't seen any kind of "source" like yours  Don't talk about "logic" with that kind of source 



Alfa-Fighter said:


> Well for your information, before Chinese started building ships , India , Malaysia and other south east asian countries do commerce trade on ships which uses south china sea. Moreover first Chinese travelled on Malay ship on sea.
> 
> May be your History on seas started at 2000 years back (Han era) but long before 2000 years ships of Malay sails over their. Therefore claim made by china is on bogus history.
> 
> World dont agree with you, why you created and live in false impression that world is with you?



Not only Malay, Nam Viet people, old Champa people had already sailed there about 3000 years ago, according to Graham Thurgood, _From Ancient Cham to Modern Dialects: Two Thousand Years of Language Contact and Change_ (1999), page 16. 

Even their "first sailed" argument which is illegal to claim sovereignty is failed.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NiceGuy

grandmaster said:


> here we go, what did the vietnamese admit?
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/chines...eady-patrols-disputed-seas-9.html#post3121270
> 
> what you said like is like this:


hehe, wellcome back, cambodia tiger 

bcz all native ASEAN people hate chinese so they will kill and loot from chinese in ASEAN again soon, "Massacres in Indonesia" is a very good example 

Every one hate chinese-ASEAN like you, chinese in ASEAN had better prepare to the worst if China mailand dare to attack Phil or VN

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## S10

NiceGuy said:


> hehe, wellcome back, cambodia tiger
> 
> bcz all native ASEAN people hate chinese so they will kill and loot from chinese in ASEAN again soon, "Massacres in Indonesia" is a very good example
> 
> Every one hate chinese-ASEAN like you, chinese in ASEAN had better prepare to the worst if China mailand dare to attack Phil or VN


Hehe you monkeys are so funny.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## &#272;&#7843;o B&#7841;ch Long V&#7929;

S10 said:


> Hehe you monkeys are so funny.



Better than delirium patient who want to conquer the whole world.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## dunhill

S10 said:


> Hehe you *monkeys* are so funny.



It seems to me that Chinese missed its *main dishes*, due to the *conflict* with Philippines and *bananas* getting shorts for its *energies* indeed.

It's okay, Chinese can jumping up and down to drains out its energies then, Philippines will gives its *bananas* back to Chinese.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## S10

&#272;&#7843;o B&#7841;ch Long V&#7929;;3265602 said:


> Better than delirium patient who want to conquer the whole world.


You know that's funnier? Monkeys being sent to the bottom of the ocean in 1988.



dunhill said:


> It seems to me that Chinese missed its *main dishes*, due to the *conflict* with Philippines and *bananas* getting shorts for its *energies* indeed.
> 
> It's okay, Chinese can jumping up and down to drains out its energies then, Philippines will gives its *bananas* back to Chinese.


Vietnam, being the world's largest monkey zoo with nearly 88 million monkeys, needs Philippino bananas far more than we do. In fact, Flips can send all of their bug infested fruit to your wildlife habitat.


----------



## asean_2015

gpit said:


> LOL!
> 
> Do you know those Vietnamese put forward the 1904 map without knowing what the map is?
> 
> Do you know Vietnamese history is all written in Chinese?
> 
> Do you know I asked then more than 10 times: do you know Chinese/ Do you read your history books in it original forms?
> 
> Do you know none of them answered back?
> 
> LOL! let's image such a clownish scene: a history illiterate waving a map like mad claiming and raving. And a learnt person passes by, asking him: do you know the language on the map?
> 
> That's the scenario how the illiterate is getting humiliated: a history-less illiterate brags about his history.
> 
> JOKE!
> 
> And seems you are on joker's side!  then enjoy it as everybody in the world can see those posts and those rantings.


I wonder if you did read some comments in that topic. Didn't you know both of Vietnamese, Chinese and others have discussed the map together, even the name of the map? Do you know that a Chinese guy translated the title of the map to ''provinces directly''?

Do you know that Vietnamese written in different languages, not only Chinese?

I do not know where you did ask them and why they did ignore you even you asked them 10 times. Just ask Vietnamese guys. At least I know they ignored the funny 2000-year evidence... 

You can imagine as you wish. Noone controls your imagination. 

I am only interested in the truth. For me, the 2000-year evidence of China is really a joke and many Chinese still enjoy it.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## asean_2015

Martian2 said:


> *Naive Vietnamese*
> 
> You are incredibly naive.
> 
> Vietnam is staring down the barrel of the big guns of the PLA Navy (see 1998 Johnson Reef battle on YouTube for a reminder).
> 
> Vietnam desperately needs international military support to survive more than a few days against the Chinese military machine.
> 
> Rational Chinese are not going to let outsiders decide their indisputable sovereignty. An international court has no jurisdiction.
> 
> In fact, the United States and China do not recognize the International Criminal Court (see United States and the International Criminal Court - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). So you see, there is no international criminal court.
> 
> Also, the International Court of Justice only issues advisory opinions, which are not binding (see What is the World Court and where is it located?).
> 
> Vietnam is left with China's mountain of evidence of historical sovereignty and the PLA Navy's guns. Either way, China's sovereignty over the South China Sea is indisputable.


Again, I wish you can show an evidence like a real single map of your ancestor (like the map 1904) to prove the water territory. Discovering, fishing or passing has no meaning for sovereignty. Don't change the topic of the discussion.

Although China or US does not not recognize the International Criminal Court it is still an internation court since there are almost 200 contries in this world, not only China or US.

I suppose Phillipine tries to force China to present in International Court of Justice. In principle, the Court's advisory opinions are only consultative in character, but they are influential and widely respected.


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

gpit said:


> LOL!
> 
> Do you know those Vietnamese put forward the 1904 map without knowing what the map is?
> 
> Do you know Vietnamese history is all written in Chinese?
> 
> Do you know I asked then more than 10 times: do you know Chinese/ Do you read your history books in it original forms?
> 
> Do you know none of them answered back?
> 
> LOL! let's image such a clownish scene: a history illiterate waving a map like mad claiming and raving. And a learnt person passes by, asking him: do you know the language on the map?
> 
> That's the scenario how the illiterate is getting humiliated: a history-less illiterate brags about his history.
> 
> JOKE!
> 
> And seems you are on joker's side!  then enjoy it as everybody in the world can see those posts and those rantings.



We know it is an official map of China in 1904 under the Qing dynasty.
Obviously the map of china 1904 did not mention two Paracels and Spratlys of Vietnam [of course]

We are holding one [paper map of china 1904], published by "Shanghai publishing house", 1904. It is an evidence to expose the deception in the claims of china about so-called "historic territory" on the East Sea (SCS)... lol chinese!

Not all us know chinese language, but we have chinese language experts, enough to study history of China.

In the past, Vietnam had used Chinese characters, which was the result of the invasion of China on Vietnam. Although the chinese deliberately deleted the history of Vietnam by burning many the historical books of Vietnam, but with the tenacity, we defeated China by the great victories [for example Battle Bach Dang River 938, killing 100,000 Chinese soldiers in only a battle], and retain the culture of our own.

BTW: You are showing low level of your education.



> *The history of Vietnam is one of the longest continuous histories in the world, with the oldest archaeological findings showing that people have been living there as far back as over a half million years ago.[1] Ancient Vietnam was home to some of the world's earliest civilizations, with a cultural history of over 20,000 years - making them one of the world's first people who practiced agriculture.[2][3] The Red River valley forms a natural geographic and economic unit, bounded to the north and west by mountains and jungles, to the east by the sea and to the south by the Red River Delta. The needs to have a single authority to prevent floods of the Red River, cooperation in constructing hydraulic systems, trade exchange, and fight against invaders, led to the creation of the first Vietnamese states in 2879 BC.[4] The first truly influential part of history in Vietnam occurred during the Bronze Age, when the &#272;ông S&#417;n culture was in Vietnam, dramatically advancing their level of civilization. Vietnam's peculiar geography made it a difficult country to attack, which is why Vietnam under Hùng V&#432;&#417;ng was for so long an independent and self-contained state. The Âns and Qins were among the earliest foreign aggressions of Vietnam, but the ancient Vietnamese regained control of their country soon after their invasions.
> Once Vietnam did succumb to foreign rule, however, it proved unable to escape from it, and for 1,100 years, Vietnam had been successively governed by a series of foreign powers: the Hans, Eastern Hans, Eastern Wus, Cao Wei, Jins, Liu Songs, Southern Qis, Liangs, Suis, Tangs, and Southern Hans; leading to the losses of its writing system, language, and national identity. At certain periods during these 1,100 years, Vietnam was independently governed under the Tri&#7879;us, Tr&#432;ng Sisters, Anterior Lýs, Khúcs and D&#432;&#417;ng &#272;ình Ngh&#7879; - although their triumphs and reigns were brief.*


Source: Wikipedia








S10 said:


> You know that's funnier? Monkeys being sent to the bottom of the ocean in 1988.
> 
> 
> Vietnam, being the world's largest monkey zoo with nearly 88 million monkeys, needs Philippino bananas far more than we do. In fact, Flips can send all of their bug infested fruit to your wildlife habitat.



Monkeys are intelligent animals, and monkeys is better than the dogs...

Dont you know that we like to eat dog meat?
We used to slaughter 100,000 dogs or 80,000 dogs only in a day...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## 3starsandasun

Martian2 said:


> *Three Strikes against Vietnam*
> 
> 1. The United States refuses to support Vietnam and has provided $0 military aid.
> 
> 2. ASEAN refuses to issue a joint communique that mentions the South China Sea issue.
> 
> 3. There is no U.N. resolution to indicate support for Vietnam.
> 
> In conclusion, the world has concluded China's historical evidence of first discovery and claim of the South China Sea islands and maritime territory is compelling. Through their actions, the world has shown that they believe China is the rightful owner of the South China Sea islands.



1. US did not provide any monetary assistance instead enhanced their military cooperation.

2. Cambodia, who just recently recieved a lot from China and chair of the last meet, refuses. Not ASEAN as a whole.

3. Vietnam both have UNCLOS and history to back their claim. China only has their stupid 2000 year old history which no one outside of China supports.

In conclusion, the world has conluded that you're so stupid.



grandmaster said:


> chinese people have only one child and that is why china doesnt want to go for war because they afraid of losing their children. in contrast, vietnamese people have many children, that is why vietnamese and filippino are so aggressive and threaten to wage against china!



Philippines threaten to wage war? Really? A fleet of 3-5 Chinese FLEC can easily destroy our entire navy in a few minutes. Stop humiliating yourself.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## 3starsandasun

@all, I just want to make it clear that the Philippines is claiming only what the modern and civilized world allows us to claim - 200NM EEZ. Regarding war, with our own limitations being considered, we are always ready. Never in our history that we went to a foreign land and invade it. 

And with all the Chinese forumers here bragging about their military capability, all they need to do is ask their government to shoot. $100 billion Chinese military budget wont scare us but instead your country is very afraid to touch us because if you're not, you would have done so a long time ago.

International Court or just open fire.


----------



## ahfatzia

I wonder if any Vietnam's 40 occupied islands in the SCS lie within the EEZ of Philippines, if so how many?


----------



## &#272;&#7843;o B&#7841;ch Long V&#7929;

ahfatzia said:


> I wonder if any Vietnam's 40 occupied islands in the SCS lie within the EEZ of Philippines, if so how many?


Only some of them.
We control our islands, Philippines friends controls their islands and exploit resources from the sea in their EEZ. We only need the resources in our EEZ. Problem solved.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## 3starsandasun

&#272;&#7843;o B&#7841;ch Long V&#7929;;3266748 said:


> Only some of them.
> We control our islands, Philippines friends controls their islands and exploit resources from the sea in their EEZ. We only need the resources in our EEZ. Problem solved.



You catch Filipino poachers fishing within your EEZ and we catch yours in ours because by law we dont have the right to fish on your EEZ and vise versa. Now, China, do you understand the purpose of EEZ? oh wait! according from Martian2 it is the midline. LOLS!


----------



## 3starsandasun

&#272;&#7843;o B&#7841;ch Long V&#7929;;3266748 said:


> Only some of them.
> We control our islands, Philippines friends controls their islands and exploit resources from the sea in their EEZ. We only need the resources in our EEZ. Problem solved.



You catch Filipino poachers fishing within your EEZ and we catch yours in ours because by law we dont have the right to fish on your EEZ and vise versa. Now, China, do you understand the purpose of EEZ? oh wait! according from Martian2 it is the midline. LOLS!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## grandmaster

dunhill said:


> Come on, I wish you are better than that for any conditions. So far, what I see at you that some kind of bias. I don't blame you, I respect what you think that is right, but I confidence that *YOU* are not represent for all Pakistanis, even though you worn that Pakistan flag.
> 
> Ever since you have *not enough evidence* to backing up your statement, I considering that you are *failed*. Have a nice w/end.
> 
> Hope next time or anytime *before* you tell anyone as a liar, you have to get enough that to convince them as a liar. Otherwise, that is not nice shots.


you know what? i kindly let you retreat without shame intentionally by not letting Khmer and chinese people told vietnam true face as your request! howerver, you seem to be shameless! okay, because you said that all Niceguy's statements nare wrong and not represent for vietnam. and since his and your statements are the same. that is to back your claim that all islands is belong to vietnam. then, we and yourself conclude that all the statements that islands are belong to vietnam are wrong and not represent for vietnam. you always do contrast to yourself, try to hide one bad then another bad shows up!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## NiceGuy

grandmaster said:


> you know what? i kindly let you retreat without shame intentionally by not letting Khmer and chinese people told vietnam true face as your request! howerver, you seem to be shameless! okay, because you said that all Niceguy's statements nare wrong and not represent for vietnam. and since his and your statements are the same. that is to back your claim that all islands is belong to vietnam. then, we and yourself conclude that all the statements that islands are belong to vietnam are wrong and not represent for vietnam. you always do contrast to yourself, try to hide one bad then another bad shows up!


Hehe, Khmer tiger, stop using false flag again, and all VNese bro, pls don't waste time with that guy


----------



## grandmaster

3starsandasun said:


> @all, I just want to make it clear that the Philippines is claiming only what the modern and civilized world allows us to claim - 200NM EEZ. Regarding war, with our own limitations being considered, we are always ready. Never in our history that we went to a foreign land and invade it.
> 
> And with all the Chinese forumers here bragging about their military capability, all they need to do is ask their government to shoot. $100 billion Chinese military budget wont scare us but instead your country is very afraid to touch us because if you're not, you would have done so a long time ago.
> 
> International Court or just open fire.



international Court means nothing to china. just like how it is to USA. 
okay, china doesnt need to wage war against philippine. what he needs is to sanction on all products made in phillipine. to see how the president of filipino making speech while seeing his people suffering!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## asean_2015

grandmaster said:


> international Court means nothing to china. just like how it is to USA.
> okay, china doesnt need to wage war against philippine. what he needs is to sanction on all products made in phillipine. to see how the president of filipino making speech while seeing his people suffering!


Let Chinese guys declare that since you are not Chinese. But I have a question for you. Does International court means something to Canada or Pakistan?

Looking at your things such as computer, mouse, keyboard. Where did they manufactured? made in China right? China can survice thanks to export. China is not so stupid to sanction on all products made in Phillipine since Philippine will sanction back on all products made in China. However, all countries in WTO need to know and obey the international rules.


----------



## Fanling Monk

grandmaster said:


> international Court means nothing to china. just like how it is to USA.
> okay, china doesnt need to wage war against philippine. what he needs is to sanction on all products made in phillipine. to see how the president of filipino making speech while seeing his people suffering!




We don't recognize any international laws that bind and hinder our sovereignty where we have no inputs in such laws. When we signed the UNCLOS we provided many provisions as to our binding to such restrictions.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## &#272;&#7843;o B&#7841;ch Long V&#7929;

grandmaster said:


> you know what? i kindly let you retreat without shame intentionally by not letting Khmer and chinese people told vietnam true face as your request! howerver, you seem to be shameless! okay, because you said that all Niceguy's statements nare wrong and not represent for vietnam. and since his and your statements are the same. that is to back your claim that all islands is belong to vietnam. then, we and yourself conclude that all the statements that islands are belong to vietnam are wrong and not represent for vietnam. you always do contrast to yourself, try to hide one bad then another bad shows up!



You are so childish 

You want to use a comment to someone to claim that Vietnamese "killed many chinese and cambodian in cambodia". Oh well, so look at my signature, your chinese friends even want to rule the world 


Chinese Century said:


> when china speaks, the world listens!
> 
> you know why?
> 
> because this is china's world, everybody else just lives in it!



Then 



Fanling Monk said:


> We don't recognize any international laws that bind and hinder our sovereignty where we have no inputs in such laws. When we signed the UNCLOS we provided many provisions as to our binding to such restrictions.



If so, *you have to use evidence to prove your sovereignty. Invasion is not a legal evidence*


----------



## Fanling Monk

&#272;&#7843;o B&#7841;ch Long V&#7929;;3268949 said:


> If so, *you have to use evidence to prove your sovereignty. Invasion is not a legal evidence*




I believe our governments have already shown their respective proofs to each other and that's why Vietnam initiated bellicose rhetoric and aggressive actions ( military jet patrols) in recent months. 

To sum up my argument, China will show our proofs of sovereignty bilaterally to parties that are involved if asked, but she's not obliged to show to other parties that have no businesses in SCS because those are not involved have no legal rights to question China's ownerships. 

China never questioned the US's ownership of Guam or India's ownership of Andaman and Nicobar Islands, did she?


----------



## dunhill

Fanling Monk said:


> I believe our governments have already shown their respective proofs to each other and that's why Vietnam *initiated bellicose rhetoric and aggressive actions* ( military jet patrols) in recent months.
> 
> To sum up my argument, China will show our proofs of sovereignty bilaterally to parties that are involved if asked, but she's not obliged to show to other parties that have no businesses in SCS because those are not involved have no legal rights to question China's ownerships.
> 
> China never questioned the US's ownership of Guam or India's ownership of Andaman and Nicobar Islands, did she?




Let's say Viet Nam jet fighter patrolling SCS, is *aggressive* action and you disagree about it right? Yes or No? Did Viet Nam shoot any Chinese Fishermen in SCS or Chinese troop in SCS yet? If that is a No, then your so-called *rhetoric* about Viet Nam that is not a right thing to say.

Thus far, Viet Nam navy still not do any action or strong responding to China Navy or SMS in SCS yet. In returned, China did shoot, ramps Vietnamese fishermen, mascacres killing unarmed soldiers in 1988 and that make you think China is not *aggressive* and not *rhetoric*?

Come on, you can change white turns blacks, China did the same way too but don't expecting that the other will accepted.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Fanling Monk

dunhill said:


> Let's say Viet Nam jet fighter patrolling SCS, is *aggressive* action and you disagree about it right? Yes or No? Did Viet Nam shoot any Chinese Fishermen in SCS or Chinese troop in SCS yet? If that is a No, then your so-called *rhetoric* about Viet Nam that is not a right thing to say.
> 
> Thus far, Viet Nam navy still not do any action or strong responding to China Navy or SMS in SCS yet. In returned, China did shoot, ramps Vietnamese fishermen, mascacres killing unarmed soldiers in 1988 and that make you think China is not *aggressive* and not *rhetoric*?
> 
> Come on, you can change white turns blacks, China did the same way too but don't expecting that the other will accepted.




Frankly if Vietnam is strong enough she would probably do all those things and a hundred time worst.


----------



## &#272;&#7843;o B&#7841;ch Long V&#7929;

Fanling Monk said:


> I believe *our governments have already shown their respective proofs* to each other and that's why Vietnam initiated bellicose rhetoric and aggressive actions ( military jet patrols) in recent months.
> 
> To sum up my argument, China will show our proofs of sovereignty bilaterally to parties that are involved if asked, but she's not obliged to show to other parties that have no businesses in SCS because those are not involved have no legal rights to question China's ownerships.
> 
> China never questioned the US's ownership of Guam or India's ownership of Andaman and Nicobar Islands, did she?



What, when, where, why, how?
Show me that evidence. From all I see, all evidences chinese ppl have provided are all *invisible evidences*, you can't even see the! Wow

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Fanling Monk

&#272;&#7843;o B&#7841;ch Long V&#7929;;3269135 said:


> What, when, where, why, how?
> Show me that evidence. From all I see, all evidences chinese ppl have provided are all *invisible evidences*, you can't even see the! Wow




Like I said, it was my argument. Unlike Philippines, China likes to solve things quietly and away from international media. She only gets tough when facing provocations.

All these evident you guys and to some extend, our guys, have shown are weak and cannot sustain vigorous rebuttals so is senseless to waste our time to play such childish games here. I did that months ago as if somebody would listen, how silly I was!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## &#272;&#7843;o B&#7841;ch Long V&#7929;

Fanling Monk said:


> Like I said, it was my argument. Unlike Philippines, China likes to solve things quietly and away from international media. She only gets tough when facing provocations.
> 
> All these evident you guys and to some extend, our guys, have shown are weak and cannot sustain vigorous rebuttals so is senseless to waste our time to play such childish games here. I did that months ago as if somebody would listen, how silly I was!



Yeah conclusion all you have are *invisible evidences*

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## dunhill

Fanling Monk said:


> *Frankly* if Vietnam is strong enough she would probably do all those things and a hundred time worst.



*Frankly*, Viet Nam could returns fire back to China if its needed. Viet Nam does not respond back due to the high hopes that will solve problem peaceful instead of fight each other. Seems to me that problems hasn't solve yet, and China from bad to worst for its action regarding SCS claims.

If your house has a backyard and suddenly I start to claims it belong to me, and then ask my kids go into your backyard to play as its own backyard. What is the very first thing you have to do anyway? I'm just curious?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## SinoChallenger

dunhill said:


> *Frankly*, Viet Nam could returns fire back to China if its needed. Viet Nam does not respond back due to the high hopes that will solve problem peaceful instead of fight each other. Seems to me that problems hasn't solve yet, and China from bad to worst for its action regarding SCS claims.
> 
> If your house has a backyard and suddenly I start to claims it belong to me, and then ask my kids go into your backyard to play as its own backyard. What is the very first thing you have to do anyway? I'm just curious?


  

Does Vietnam want another 6 provinces to be turned into wasteland? Or to be sprayed with agent orange again until you all have big heads?


----------



## Fanling Monk

&#272;&#7843;o B&#7841;ch Long V&#7929;;3269197 said:


> Yeah conclusion all you have are *invisible evidences*




Read my previous posts you'll find I did not make any claims for I knew it would be waste of time here. Let me repeat again all proofs of ownership in this forum can not stand any rigorous scrutiny. In truth I would not believe yours as you wold not believe mine anyway then why bother.


----------



## ajtr

SinoChallenger said:


> Does Vietnam want another 6 provinces to be turned into wasteland? Or to be sprayed with agent orange again until you all have big heads?


Is your secret service agent's name is Orange just like MI6' s agent bond 007

How can you spray an agent simultaneously in 6 provinces...multitasking...eh...?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Fanling Monk

dunhill said:


> *Frankly*, Viet Nam could returns fire back to China if its needed. Viet Nam does not respond back due to the high hopes that will solve problem peaceful instead of fight each other. Seems to me that problems hasn't solve yet, and China from bad to worst for its action regarding SCS claims.
> 
> If your house has a backyard and suddenly I start to claims it belong to me, and then ask my kids go into your backyard to play as its own backyard. What is the very first thing you have to do anyway? I'm just curious?




So let see who will be the final winner if we don't go to the negotiation table.


----------



## &#272;&#7843;o B&#7841;ch Long V&#7929;

Fanling Monk said:


> Read my previous posts you'll find I did not make any claims for I knew it would be waste of time here. Let me repeat again all proofs of ownership in this forum can not stand any rigorous scrutiny. In truth I would not believe yours as *you wold not believe mine* anyway then why bother.



How can I believe you when you just don't show them  
Vietnamese pple are not chinese. We use fact and logic, while you use propaganda.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ManilaBoy45

Latest SCS News Articles, Looks Like the WAR of Words has Started ... 

US warns China against "military garrison" in South China Sea - Taiwan News Online

US hits China, pushes sea code of conduct

China hits back at US over South China Sea - The Economic Times

China rebukes US over South China Sea

US and China argue over South China Sea - FT.com

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## 3starsandasun

Fanling Monk said:


> Like I said, it was my argument. Unlike Philippines, China likes to solve things quietly and away from international media. She only gets tough when facing provocations.
> 
> All these evident you guys and to some extend, our guys, have shown are weak and cannot sustain vigorous rebuttals so is senseless to waste our time to play such childish games here. I did that months ago as if somebody would listen, how silly I was!


 
The whole world knows why you dont want to internationalize this dispute because your government wants bilateral negotiations. We're not stupid. We wont fall for that trap. 

Now, since you have THE evidences, use them in the international court to make us shut up. Otherwise, your claims and your evidences are all for brainwashed Chinese people to be prideful enough to stay brainwashed.

International court or just fire the first shot. Pick your poison.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## 3starsandasun

Fanling Monk said:


> So let see who will be the final winner if we don't go to the negotiation table.


United States of America.


----------



## 3starsandasun

Fanling Monk said:


> So let see who will be the final winner if we don't go to the negotiation table.


United States of America.


----------



## SinoChallenger

3starsandasun said:


> United States of America.


The winner's prize: taking over Subic Bay and Filipina loving them long time


----------



## dunhill

Fanling Monk said:


> So let see who will be the final winner if we don't go to the negotiation table.



U.S, Viet Nam and Philippines will wins. We need to prove to another nations that China does *greedy* and *aggressive* action due to its claims up to 80% in SCS. That's all we needed/wanted.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

*Phan Vinh island, Spratly Islands, Vietnam*

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## asean_2015

Very beautiful photos. I can see Vietnam has school, hospital and even temple in the islands. Thanks. How many people are living in Spartly islands? I guess not less than 1000 people. Could you please give some information of these photos?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## gpit

Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> We know it is an official map of China in 1904 under the Qing dynasty.
> Obviously the map of china 1904 did not mention two Paracels and Spratlys of Vietnam [of course]
> 
> We are holding one [paper map of china 1904], published by "Shanghai publishing house", 1904. It is an evidence to expose the deception in the claims of china about so-called "historic territory" on the East Sea (SCS)... lol chinese!
> 
> Not all us know chinese language, but we have chinese language experts, enough to study history of China.
> 
> In the past, Vietnam had used Chinese characters, which was the result of the invasion of China on Vietnam. Although the chinese deliberately deleted the history of Vietnam by burning many the historical books of Vietnam, but with the tenacity, we defeated China by the great victories [for example Battle Bach Dang River 938, killing 100,000 Chinese soldiers in only a battle], and retain the culture of our own.
> 
> BTW: You are showing low level of your education.
> 
> 
> Source: Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Monkeys are intelligent animals, and monkeys is better than the dogs...
> 
> Dont you know that we like to eat dog meat?
> We used to slaughter 100,000 dogs or 80,000 dogs only in a day...



So that wiki is your history?

Poor Vietnamese!


----------



## gpit

Rechoice said:


> stop lying. it's &#24066;&#19976;, (tr&#432;&#7907;ng unit). I talken about Ly, (D&#7863;m unit), &#24066;&#37324;.
> In the map of Vietnam it's stating in Han character (in the past when Viet used Han characters to writing like Japanese do until now), the name is: &#33836;&#37324;&#38263;&#27801;. Its *&#24066;&#37324;*. 1 &#24066;&#37324; (d&#7863;m) = 500 m. The meaning òf the name of Islands Spratly (Truong Sa in Vietnamese) is the Islands group very long, including archipelago reefs, ...


 
Did you read what I wrote?

I have expected it to be difficult to talk with illiterate. But yours is beyond hilarious... your lack of education and imagination is worse than any homo erectus&#8230;

According your Vietnamese logic, One foot Island should be only one foot in size.





One Foot Island

Overview of a place to visit: One Foot Island in Cook Islands - Aitutaki

LOL! Heard of inch island?





Photo of Inch Island looking north from Grianan of Aileach with Lough Swilly in the Background and foreground. The black line at right is the causeway.


Map of Inch Island in Inch Island - Ireland - An Ireland Attraction

Are both of them beyond your ill-educated Vietnamese logic?



A reminder: 1 inch = 0.0254m and 1 foot = 12 inches. 



*Funny viets based on funny logic to claim sovereignty*.


----------



## gpit

Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> We just need to wait until china collapsed and fragmented into many smaller countries. Be patient. Why not?



I think you are right. Every time China collapses, it comes back becoming bigger.

LOL! last time it collapsed in Qin Dynasty, it came back with Vietnam as China's province.



asean_2015 said:


> It is a very weak argument. The map shows clearly that the paracel and spratly islands did not belong to China at least in 1904 unless the map is a fake version. The map will avoid unecessary argument between China and Vietnam about the sovereignty of these islands.
> 
> It will be very good if you can show all 34 maps and the time the maps were published.



Did you forget Vietnam was a part of China? So whatever was Veitnam's was China's.


----------



## Martian2

*Range of China's DF-21D Anti-Ship Ballistic Missile (ASBM)*







[Note: Thank you to EastWind for the picture.]

----------

*US Naval War College: China's DF-21D ASBM costs $5 to $10.5 million per missile*





A Chinese DF-21D ASBM costs only $5 to $10.5 million. China can afford to build hundreds of them.





Out of the 100 DF-21D ASBMs fired at a single aircraft carrier, China only needs one or two hits to achieve a "soft kill" (e.g. knocked out of combat). If there are more impacts, the carrier might sink.

I have suggested China may fire 100 DF-21D ASBMs to arrive near-simultaneously and attack an aircraft carrier. However, is this economically feasible? As shown in the citation below, each DF-21D ASBM costs between $5 to $10.5 million per missile.

We'll pick the upper range and say each DF-21D ASBM costs $10 million. A bombardment of 100 DF-21D ASBMs will cost a total of $1 billion. This is a cost-effective way to attack a $5 billion aircraft carrier.

Anyway, in a war, costs don't really matter. China will attempt to sink the aircraft carrier with sufficient numbers of DF-21D ASBMs regardless of cost.

----------

From the third page at the following link from the US Naval War College:

http://www.usnwc.edu/getattachment/...9d27/The-Strategic-Implications-of-Obscurants

"While it is problematic to estimate accurately *the cost of the DF-21, sources place the unit price, in U.S. currency, between $5,000,000 and $10,500,000 per missile.[7] This seems a reasonable estimate in light of the cost of a similar weapon, the U.S. Pershing II, which adjusted for inflation would be roughly twelve million dollars per missile.* In comparison, the ballistic-missile-defense-capable SM-3 costs roughly ten million dollars per missile. At first blush, the nearly equal prices of interceptor (SM-3) and ASBM (DF-21) suggest near parity in cost ratio, but a &#8220;shoot two to kill one&#8221; doctrine means a differential of nearly ten million dollars per exchange. However, even this is misleading, as the launch platform&#8212;essentially a big truck&#8212;of the DF-21 is far less expensive than that of the SM-3, a warship. This estimate also ignores the operational and developmental challenges of intercepting an ASBM; nor does it fold in the things like purchasing power disparity, labor costs, and government controls, which all favor China. Nonetheless, this simple cost comparison is striking."


----------



## Rechoice

gpit said:


> Did you read what I wrote?
> 
> I have expected it to be difficult to talk with illiterate. But yours is beyond hilarious... your lack of education and imagination is worse than any homo erectus&#8230;
> 
> According your Vietnamese logic, One foot Island should be only one foot in size.
> 
> 
> One Foot Island
> 
> Overview of a place to visit: One Foot Island in Cook Islands - Aitutaki
> 
> LOL! Heard of inch island?
> 
> 
> Photo of Inch Island looking north from Grianan of Aileach with Lough Swilly in the Background and foreground. The black line at right is the causeway.
> 
> 
> Map of Inch Island in Inch Island - Ireland - An Ireland Attraction
> 
> Are both of them beyond your ill-educated Vietnamese logic?
> 
> 
> 
> A reminder: 1 inch = 0.0254m and 1 foot = 12 inches.
> 
> 
> 
> *Funny viets based on funny logic to claim sovereignty*.



Spratly Islands in Vietnamese: Bãi Cát dài or Truong Sa, name was writing in Han character &#33836;&#37324;&#38263;&#27801; in records of Vietnam in the past. It mean that Islands are allocated one by one, nearby in the chain of Islands, in area with surrounding should be very long in term of &#33836;&#37324; (wan ly = 10,000 &#37324; = 10,000 X 500 m = 5,000 km). *It doesn't mean it is correctly 5,000 km.*.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ayachyan

dunhill said:


> Actually, if China does not poke its noses around on these Islands then their lives are pretty *SAVE*. Don't you think?


 ahfatzia means 
are those people all volunteer to be there and not just drived by the government.
China has nothing to to with your GOV drived your people to immigrate to those islands of under viet's control

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ayachyan

asean_2015 said:


> Very beautiful photos. I can see Vietnam has school, hospital and even temple in the islands. Thanks. How many people are living in Spartly islands? I guess not less than 1000 people. Could you please give some information of these photos?


i don't know much information about those islands 
but i can tell you something of a island which is similar to the islands 
it is a island we called Yong xing and cost about 8 hours sailed from mainland China to there
such a small island that less than 500 people live there most of them are fishmen and navy sailers 
we can find fresh water there but the water there are really tough to be drunk so we use a pool to collect rain water
drinking is collected water and using island water for washing
electricity is enough and internet and mobile phone can be used there 
if you are tolerant enough of boring , live there should be good

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## &#272;&#7843;o B&#7841;ch Long V&#7929;

Bro, gpit was just trolling, he *never* want to discuss or argue. Don't loose time with him. Make him troll himself.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## &#272;&#7843;o B&#7841;ch Long V&#7929;

ayachyan said:


> ahfatzia means
> are those people all volunteer to be there and not just drived by the government.
> China has nothing to to with your GOV drived your people to immigrate to those islands of under viet's control



*All volunteer*, mates. Look at the pictures and see their smile, you will know.
Example:
Th
Translate: Young teacher volunteer to teach in Spartly. 
http://vietnamnet.vn/vn/xa-hoi/chuyen-dong-tre/45433/-em-xac-dinh-phai-ra-truong-sa--.html
Translate: Many young teachers volunteer to go to Spartly.
Just do a google translate.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

asean_2015 said:


> Very beautiful photos. I can see Vietnam has school, hospital and even temple in the islands. Thanks. How many people are living in Spartly islands? I guess not less than 1000 people. Could you please give some information of these photos?




Yes, Bro, we will continue to introduce some of images and information from the Vietnamese newspapers...

This is the statue of General Tr&#7847;n H&#432;ng &#272;&#7841;o in Song T&#7917; Tây Island.
Stone statue, 11m high, in Song T&#7917; Tây island commune, Tr&#432;&#7901;ng Sa dictrict, Khánh Hoà province, Vietnam:










*Tr&#7847;n H&#432;ng &#272;&#7841;o (1228&#8211;1300) was the Supreme Commander of &#272;&#7841;i Vi&#7879;t during the Tr&#7847;n Dynasty. Born as Prince Tr&#7847;n Qu&#7889;c Tu&#7845;n, he commanded the &#272;&#7841;i Vi&#7879;t armies that repelled two major Mongol invasions in the 13th century.[1] His multiple victories over the mighty Mongol Yuan Dynasty under Kublai Khan are considered among the greatest military feats in world history. General Tr&#7847;n H&#432;ng &#272;&#7841;o's military brilliance and prowess are reflected in many warfare treatises that he authored. Tr&#7847;n H&#432;ng &#272;&#7841;o is regarded as one of the most accomplished military tacticians in history.*


The trees in the photos that are Cây Phong Ba, in Song T&#7917; Tây island commune:

























*A Vi&#7879;t Ki&#7873;u visits Tr&#432;&#7901;ng Sa Islands, Vietnam motherland.*

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## 3starsandasun

&#272;&#7843;o B&#7841;ch Long V&#7929;;3276699 said:


> Bro, gpit was just trolling, he *never* want to discuss or argue. Don't loose time with him. Make him troll himself.


If our chinese friends are losing the argument they'll resort to bragging about their Chinese military and how it will fare over the countries with little to no external defense forces. Just stupid.

And oh wow! Chinese anti-ship missiles will really scare the US now. That's if the Chinese can even fire one on the American's symbol of strength.

Learn from history: The Germans made sure they need to defend only 1 side of their country until they decided to breakup with the allies. China doesnt have that luxury. They have NK, HK, PK and Cambodia as allies which one US ally can easily handle by her own, ie Australia, India or Japan. An all out war wont be easy for the US but China will lose terribly be back to what they were in their 2000 year old history - humiliated and back to being dirt poor.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Martian2

3starsandasun said:


> If our chinese friends are losing the argument they'll resort to bragging about their Chinese military and how it will fare over the countries with little to no external defense forces. Just stupid.
> 
> And oh wow! Chinese anti-ship missiles will really scare the US now. That's if the Chinese can even fire one on the American's symbol of strength.
> 
> Learn from history: The Germans made sure they need to defend only 1 side of their country until they decided to breakup with the allies. China doesnt have that luxury. They have NK, HK, PK and Cambodia as allies which one US ally can easily handle by her own, ie Australia, India or Japan. An all out war wont be easy for the US but China will lose terribly be back to what they were in their 2000 year old history - humiliated and back to being dirt poor.



*China is 20 Germanies*

You're retarded.

1. China has 15 times more people than Germany.

2. China is 20 times larger geographically than Germany.

3. China has at least 294 megatons of thermonuclear weapons at last count from years ago.

If Germany were present-day mega-sized China, it would have annexed all of its neighboring countries.

By the way, Filipino monkeys have no right to brag and speak on behalf of the United States. The U.S. gave your country a measly $30 million in military aid for 2012 to make you go away. That can hardly be called strong support.

No one will fight a war for Filipinos. There is no vital U.S. national interest. You Filipinos will have to eventually face the PLA Navy on your own.

In 1988, at the battle of Johnson Reef, the Vietnamese sent out their marines for a showdown with the PLA Navy. The PLA Navy wiped out all of the Vietnamese marines, except for one survivor. The Vietnamese were stupid to confront a Chinese frigate, but at least they had guts.

Come out you Filipino chickens. You and your monkey leader Aquino trash talk a lot, but where are your Filipino marines? Send them out and let the PLA Navy mow you idiots down.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## oct605032048

3starsandasun said:


> If our chinese friends are losing the argument they'll resort to bragging about their Chinese military and how it will fare over the countries with little to no external defense forces. Just stupid.
> 
> And oh wow! Chinese anti-ship missiles will really scare the US now. That's if the Chinese can even fire one on the American's symbol of strength.
> 
> Learn from history: The Germans made sure they need to defend only 1 side of their country until they decided to breakup with the allies. China doesnt have that luxury. They have NK, HK, PK and Cambodia as allies which one US ally can easily handle by her own, ie Australia, India or Japan. An all out war wont be easy for the US but China will lose terribly be back to what they were in their 2000 year old history - humiliated and back to being dirt poor.



We can certainly take you or any one dare to challenge China along with us...be back to 2000 years. 

The question is do you have a history 2000 years ago?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## 3starsandasun

Martian2 said:


> *China is 20 Germanies*
> 
> You're retarded.
> 
> 1. China has 15 times more people than Germany.
> 
> 2. China is 20 times larger geographically than Germany.
> 
> 3. China has at least 294 megatons of thermonuclear weapons at last count years ago.
> 
> If Germany were present-day mega-sized China, it would have annexed all of its neighboring countries.
> 
> By the way, Filipino monkeys have no right to brag and speak on behalf of the United States. The U.S. gave your country a measly $30 million in military aid for 2012 to make you go away. That can hardly be called strong support.
> 
> No one will fight a war for Filipinos. There is no vital U.S. national interest. You Filipinos will have to eventually face the PLA Navy on your own.
> 
> In 1988, at the battle of Johnson Reef, the Vietnamese sent out their marines for a showdown with the PLA Navy. The PLA Navy wiped out all of the Vietnamese marines, except for one survivor. The Vietnamese were stupid to confront a Chinese frigate, but at least they had guts.
> 
> Come out you Filipino chickens. You and your monkey leader Aquino trash talk a lot, but where are your Filipino marines? Send them out and let the PLA Navy mow you idiots down.


@everyone, this just proved my point.

@Martian2, We were there. We're out there. We're ready. With whatever we have, we're always ready. Are you ready? Just shoot so that we can humiliate you again 20 chinese:1 Filipino.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

Martian2 said:


> *China is 20 Germanies*
> 
> You're retarded.
> 
> 1. China has 15 times more people than Germany.
> 
> 2. China is 20 times larger geographically than Germany.
> 
> 3. China has at least 294 megatons of thermonuclear weapons at last count years ago.
> 
> If Germany were present-day mega-sized China, it would have annexed all of its neighboring countries.
> 
> By the way, Filipino monkeys have no right to brag and speak on behalf of the United States. The U.S. gave your country a measly $30 million in military aid for 2012 to make you go away. That can hardly be called strong support.
> 
> No one will fight a war for Filipinos. There is no vital U.S. national interest. You Filipinos will have to eventually face the PLA Navy on your own.
> 
> In 1988, at the battle of Johnson Reef, the Vietnamese sent out their marines for a showdown with the PLA Navy. The PLA Navy wiped out all of the Vietnamese marines, except for one survivor. The Vietnamese were stupid to confront a Chinese frigate, but at least they had guts.
> 
> Come out you Filipino chickens. You and your monkey leader Aquino trash talk a lot, but where are your Filipino marines? Send them out and let the PLA Navy mow you idiots down.



Yes, but combat capability of Chinese is not equal to 1% of Germans. Just look at the Chinese regular army (PLA) had been humiliated by the girls of Vietnamese militia force in 1979. 

In 1988 the Chinese navy "fighted" with transport ships of Vietnam naval in SCS and the soldiers had no weapons! LOL





*Sino-Vietnam war 1979*


----------



## Martian2

Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> Yes, but combat capability of Chinese is not equal to 1% of Germans. Just look at the Chinese regular army (PLA) had been humiliated by the girls of Vietnamese militia force in 1979.



You're an idiot. You pretend as if there were no German prisoners of war during World War II.

At the Battle of Stalingrad, 90,000 Germans surrendered (see citation below).

In every war, there are prisoners taken on both sides. You keep posting a few pictures to try and convince others that Vietnam won the war. What a joke.

Reference: Battle of Stalingrad &#8211; a summary


----------



## 3starsandasun

oct605032048 said:


> We can certainly take you or any one dare to challenge China along with us...be back to 2000 years.
> 
> The question is do you have a history 2000 years ago?


The Malay race shares the same history until the Age of Discovery. Our country fought all major wars in our land as an underdog. Our history wont tell you that we bowed down to anyone. But according from your 2000 history, your ancestors even kissed the feet of your former rulers just to stay alive. Pity. 

We never oppressed anyone. Never. We went to Korea to defend the South from getting run over by the communists and your country was there (200,000) and was humiliated by our 7,000 soldiers. See the point? A few monkeys *****-slapped your stupid grandpas back to being rats. In all of America's wars, we were there because they need us in whatever capacity we can. If the most intelligent people in your country thinks we're alone, you could have fired the first shot already. But no shots fired. Just a lot of warnings that were ignored. Again, a pity.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

Martian2 said:


> You're an idiot. You pretend as if there were no German prisoners of war during World War II.
> 
> At the Battle of Stalingrad, 90,000 Germans surrendered (see citation below).
> 
> In every war, there are prisoners taken on both sides. You keep posting a few pictures to try and convince others that Vietnam won the war. What a joke.
> 
> Reference: Battle of Stalingrad &#8211; a summary



But their rivals were powerful Allies [incl USA, USSR], not girls of a militia?


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> Yes, but combat capability of Chinese is not equal to 1% of Germans. Just look at the Chinese regular army (PLA) had been humiliated by the girls of Vietnamese militia force in 1979.
> 
> In 1988 the Chinese navy "fighted" with transport ships of Vietnam naval in SCS and the soldiers had no weapons! LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Sino-Vietnam war 1979*



PRC is a modern great power, and i think there is no comparison with a WWII power like the Nazi Germany and the Cold War superpower like USSR. 

This is like comparing USA and the 19th century Britain, it is comparing the apple to the orange.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Fanling Monk

Martian2 said:


> Give me a break. You talk big, but you can't back it up.
> 
> Filipinos were slaves of the Spanish. Hence, Filipinos have Spanish names like Aquino. Also, your currency is called a peso, which is similar to the Spanish peso. You Filipinos still embrace your slave legacy.
> 
> Afterwards, you were servants for the American empire.
> 
> Everyone knows that Filipinos are a slave race. You're just waiting for the next big power to enslave you again to work on the banana plantations.




According the Filipinos in this forum Vietnam is probably their next new master. They are willing to go to war with China on a 1-20 basis over one island, Huangyan, but willing to give all the islands in their EEZ to Vietnam.



dunhill said:


> U.S, Viet Nam and Philippines will wins. We need to prove to another nations that China does *greedy* and *aggressive* action due to its claims up to 80% in SCS. That's all we needed/wanted.




LOL another &#24694;&#20154;&#20808;&#21578;&#29366;. According to you Vietnam is not aggressive because she does not claim 80% but only a 100% of SCS.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

3starsandasun said:


> The Germans was successful in destryoying the major forces in Europe. Something China wont achieve in Asia. She cant even scare the Philippines for Christ's sake!



Do you mean by relative or absolute?

By the absolute comparison, the 2012 PRC is even stronger than the 1980s USSR, since by now PRC will have the strong capability of the information warfare, while in the 1980s you would have none of those things. Even a crappy modern T-72 can easily take down the most powerful German Tiger in WWII.

By the relative comparison, the 1980s USSR is stronger than the 2012 PRC, since it had smaller technogical gap with the 1980s USA than the 2012 PRC with the 2012 USA.

You guys don't possess any critical thinking skill, don't you? No matter you are just a laughing stock around the world.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

Fanling Monk said:


> According the Filipinos in this forum Vietnam is probably their next new master. They are willing to go to war with China on a 1-20 basis over one island, Huangyan, but willing to give all the islands in their EEZ to Vietnam.



We respect sovereign rights of the Philippines in their EEZs. We dont like the Chinese with the statement "2000 years of sovereignty" of China in within Philippines' EEZs! LOL


----------



## 3starsandasun

According from the history books, your country is down 0-1 in a war with the Filipinos. The most humiliating fact there was... 200,000 versus 7,000. Did we send super soldiers or China sent stupid soldiers?

We're willing to fight for what is legally ours - in the international court. Of course you know you'll lose there so you'll resort to war where we are always ready to defend the 3 Stars and the Sun with whatever we have.

You'll lose either way. Rats vs monkeys? Intellectually? Rats lose. Everything else, rats still lose.


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

Fanling Monk said:


> LOL another &#24694;&#20154;&#20808;&#21578;&#29366;. According to you Vietnam is not aggressive because she does not claim 80% but only a 100% of SCS.



We only claim what are consistent with UNCLOS1982 and evidences which we have, not the imagination like the Chinese do. LOL


----------



## 3starsandasun

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Do you mean by relative or absolute?
> 
> By the absolute comparison, the 2012 PRC is even stronger than the 1980s USSR, since by now PRC will have the strong capability of the information warfare, while in the 1980s you would have none of those things. Even a crappy modern T-72 can easily take down the most powerful German Tiger in WWII.
> 
> By the relative comparison, the 1980s USSR is stronger than the 2012 PRC, since it had smaller technogical gap with the 1980s USA than the 2012 PRC with the 2012 USA.
> 
> You guys don't possess any critical thinking skill, don't you? No matter you are just a laughing stock around the world.



Intelligent people battle wits with other intelligent people in the right forum. Your country prefers the use of might. The world knows why. LOL

Critical thinking? You're talking about T-72 versus the 1930s era German Tiger? Wow just wow!

No matter we are just a laughing stock around the world? 

Something you were for the first 2000 years of civilized history? Sorry. When Filipinos talk, people listen. When a Chinese talks, the people around mocks him. See the difference la?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

3starsandasun said:


> Intelligent people battle wits with other intelligent people in the right forum. Your country prefers the use of might. The world knows why. LOL
> 
> Critical thinking? You're talking about T-72 versus the 1930s era German Tiger? Wow just wow!



If you believe the modern PRC is weaker than the 1980s USSR or even than the WWII Nazi Germany by the absolute comparison, then you would need to get your brain checked.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Fanling Monk

Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> We only claim what are consistent with UNCLOS1982 and evidences which we have, not the imagination like the Chinese do. LOL




But isn't Philippine's claims are also consistent with UNCLOS1982 and have many evidences to back them up too.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## 3starsandasun

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> If you believe the modern PRC is weaker than the 1980s USSR or even than the WWII Nazi Germany by the absolutely comparison, then you would need to get your brain checked.


They have guts. You dont. Stop humiliating yourself.



Fanling Monk said:


> But isn't Philippine's claims are also consistent with UNCLOS1982 and have many evidences to back them up too.


International court where evidences are weighed. Those who think will lose will prefer war. Fact.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

3starsandasun said:


> They have guts. You dont. Stop humiliating yourself.



They were losers, while we didn't lose anything.

Even the Taliban fighters have more gut than the US army, but the technological difference makes the winner.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

Fanling Monk said:


> But isn't Philippine's claims are also consistent with UNCLOS1982 and have many evidences to back them up too.



Between the claims of Vietnam and the Philippines only overlap in the Spratlys area. This we had the good signal to solve together, as evidenced by Vietnam and the Philippines have agreed to joint patrols there, and Vietnam supported the Philippine government's initiative to turn the disputed area becomes a peace common development region.

But China has always opposed any peaceful solution and wants to account for all, even though China does not have any basis for its ridiculous claims.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Fanling Monk

3starsandasun said:


> International court where evidences are weighed. Those who think will lose will prefer war. Fact.




So did Philippines takes Vietnam, since she occupies 18 islands within your claim territory, to International Court? In fact you guys don't even dare to mention this fact in this forum here. Obviously you're willing to give those 18 islands to Dai Viet.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

3starsandasun said:


> Am I talking to a descendant of one of the stupid soldiers China sent in the Korean war? Waste of time.



Are you talking about this?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Fanling Monk

Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> Between the claims of Vietnam and the Philippines only overlap in the Spratlys area. This we had the good signal to solve together, as evidenced by Vietnam and the Philippines have agreed to joint patrols there, and Vietnam supported the Philippine government's initiative to turn the disputed area becomes a peace common development region.
> 
> But China has always opposed any peaceful solution and wants to account for all, even though China does not have any basis for its ridiculous claims.




If China's 80% claim is ridiculous, how about your 100% claim?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

Fanling Monk said:


> If China's 80% claim is ridiculous, how about your 100% claim?




You see, Vietnam and Malaysia made a common map between two countries' waters for submission to the UN in 2009, and Vietnam-Indonesia joint patrols along the border sea of the two countries annual, and Vietnam-Philippines joint patrols in the Spratly Islands....

Clearly, all issues between ASEAN countries, which was and are resolving peacefully.

Only the greed claims of Chinese are still there, it is illogical, baseless, illegal ... it only has the support of many warships and the big mouths of Chinese.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Fanling Monk

Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> You see, Vietnam and Malaysia made a common map between two countries' waters for submission to the UN in 2009, and Vietnam-Indonesia joint patrols along the border sea of the two countries annual, and Vietnam-Philippines joint patrols in the Spratly Islands....
> 
> Clearly, all issues between ASEAN countries, which was and are resolving peacefully.
> 
> Only the greed claims of Chinese are still there, it is illogical, baseless, illegal ... it only has the support of many warships and the big mouths of Chinese.




You keep saying China is greedy but neglect to mention Vietnam's hegemonic activities in SCS. Who give Vietnam the rights to patrol territories so far away from home and who has the authorities to give those rights. It's more of Vietnam just appoints herself to patrol those areas in dispute, isn't it?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## conan008

Vietnam always plays the trick of a thief crying Stop thief!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Rechoice

conan008 said:


> Vietnam always plays the trick of a thief crying &#8220;Stop thief!&#8221;



China did it. Vietnam controlled peaceful from hundreds years ago with out any trouble with Man Qing China. Taiwan robbed Itu Aba 1956 and China robbed Hoang Sa 1974 recently.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Fanling Monk

Indeed thief crying:"Stop the thief!" 

Vietnam never had possessions of those 40 islands until she systematically occupied them in 1974 behind everyone's back.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Rechoice

Fanling Monk said:


> Indeed thief crying:"Stop the thief!"
> 
> Vietnam never had possessions of those 40 islands until she systematically occupied them in 1974 behind everyone's back.



Chinese invaded Hoang Sa of Vietnam 1974 with force.







The Route through Qu&#7843;ng Nam map depicting Bãi Cát Vàng - the Golden Sandbank - off the coast of Qu&#7843;ng Nam, 1634.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Rechoice

LetsGetRowdy said:


> Those Latin alphabets look so out of place. Vietnam should revert back to beautiful Chu Nom.



Vietnamese is fair for old tradition. Han characters is symbol of literature class in China, Vietnamese people can make differences between them and idiot aggressive extremists controlled propaganda in China.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## &#272;&#7843;o B&#7841;ch Long V&#7929;

Martian2 said:


> You're an idiot. You pretend as if there were no German prisoners of war during World War II.
> 
> *At the Battle of Stalingrad, 90,000 Germans surrendered* (see citation below).
> 
> In every war, there are prisoners taken on both sides. You keep posting a few pictures to try and convince others that Vietnam won the war. What a joke.
> 
> Reference: Battle of Stalingrad &#8211; a summary



But they were taken by main force of USSR, not by militia women of Vietnam  That's the point there 



conan008 said:


> Vietnam always plays the trick of a thief crying &#8220;Stop thief!&#8221;



We have historical evidences and international laws to prove our sovereignty. Philippines and Malaysia have international laws. What do you have? Invisible evidence? Military power? 



Fanling Monk said:


> Indeed thief crying:"Stop the thief!"
> 
> Vietnam never had possessions of those 40 islands until she systematically occupied them *in 1974 behind everyone's back*.



*in 18th Century *

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## 3starsandasun

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Are you talking about this?


And the Chinese and North Korean casualties?


----------



## 3starsandasun

Fanling Monk said:


> So did Philippines takes Vietnam, since she occupies 18 islands within your claim territory, to International Court? In fact you guys don't even dare to mention this fact in this forum here. Obviously you're willing to give those 18 islands to Dai Viet.


No. Not yet. There's more important things to consider than that. We're not going to kill each other if that is what you want to hear. Vietnam claims is huge but they respect other nation's claims. Our islands and theirs are almost right next to each other but you wont hear any news that a Vietnamese boat tried to ram any of our ships and vice versa. We dont use fishermen to fight for our navy. We send in our navy and stand our ground, alone, against Chinese ships as high as 94. We got balls. You dont.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

Fanling Monk said:


> You keep saying China is greedy but neglect to mention Vietnam's hegemonic activities in SCS. Who give Vietnam the rights to patrol territories so far away from home and who has the authorities to give those rights. It's more of Vietnam just appoints herself to patrol those areas in dispute, isn't it?



Your silly question made &#8203;&#8203;me funny. Why is "who give"? It is the maritime boundary between Vietnam and Indonesia, Malaysia, Philppines and we patrol together, have a problem with the chinese there?

http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/168632-philipines-vietnam-navies-jointly-patrol-spratlys.html

PHL, Vietnam navies to jointly patrol Spratlys

Indonesia, Vietnam agree joint maritime patrols - Channel NewsAsia



> *PHL, Vietnam navies to jointly patrol Spratlys*
> TUESDAY, 27 MARCH 2012 18:28 RENE ACOSTA / REPORTER
> 
> THE Philippines and Vietnam have moved closer to jointly patrolling their claimed maritime territories in the disputed Spratly Group of Islands that are being aggressively claimed by China.
> The standard operating procedure for the joint patrol by the country&#8217;s Navy and the Vietnam People&#8217;s Navy (VPN) of the Northeast Cay and Southwest Cay, both on the South China Sea, was signed by Vice Admiral Alex Pama, Navy flag officer in command and the Vietnam Navy&#8217;s commander in chief Adm. Nguyen Van Hien.
> 
> Lt. Col. Omar Tonsay, Navy spokesman, said Northeast Cay is occupied by the Philippines, and it is located 45 kilometers northeast of Pag-asa, the biggest island that is currently occupied by the country.
> 
> On the other hand, the Southwest Cay is occupied by Vietnam, and it is located 3 kilometers away from Northeast Cay.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Martian2

Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> Your silly question made &#8203;&#8203;me funny. Why is "who give"? It is the maritime boundary between Vietnam and Indonesia, Malaysia, Philppines and we patrol together, have a problem with the chinese there?
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/168632-philipines-vietnam-navies-jointly-patrol-spratlys.html
> 
> PHL, Vietnam navies to jointly patrol Spratlys
> 
> Indonesia, Vietnam agree joint maritime patrols - Channel NewsAsia



*The problem with crappy Vietnamese and Filipino navies*

Did anybody tell you that two combined crappy navies still equal a crappy navy?

Vietnam has a few corvettes. The most advanced Filipino ship is a 50-year-old World War II coast guard cutter.

Your navies are total garbage. They shouldn't even be allowed to be called a navy.

A single Chinese Type 054A Jiangkai II frigate could annihilate both of your crappy navies.





Chinese Type 054A Jiangkai II Frigate


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

Fanling Monk said:


> So did Philippines takes Vietnam, since she occupies 18 islands within your claim territory, to International Court? In fact you guys don't even dare to mention this fact in this forum here. Obviously you're willing to give those 18 islands to Dai Viet.



You want Vietnam and the Philippines to act against each other and then China is beneficiaries?

We are working together to fight the greedy bully. Views of the Philippines and Vietnam are to establish an area peace and cooperation on SCS.

No one agrees with the claims greed and absurd of China.



> Main article: Philippines&#8211;Vietnam relations
> Since the end of the Cold War relations between the Philippines and Vietnam have warmed rapidly. Today the Philippines and Vietnam are economic allies and have a free trade deal with each other. Both nations are a part of Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) and Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC). The Philippines and Vietnam have conducted joint military exercises together in the South China Sea and are trying to find ways to turn the Spratly Islands from an area of conflict to an area of cooperation.
> Vietnam is also sometimes called the only communist military ally of the Philippines. *The Philippines and Vietnam are also monitoring China's expansion into the South China Sea making sure that China is no threat to either Philippine or Vietnamese islands in the South China Sea*. The Philippines also imports a large amount of writing material, clothes and other products from Vietnam. On May 2009, The Philippines signed an agreement with Vietnam to cooperate in the fight against crime and to ensure social order.[68] On January 2010, the Philippine Stock Exchange (PSE) signed a memorandum of understanding with the Vietnam bourse &#8220;for mutual collaboration and communication of information and experience&#8221; to facilitate the development and efficient operation of both securities markets.[69]


----------



## Viet

Fanling Monk said:


> Indeed thief crying:"Stop the thief!"
> 
> Vietnam never had possessions of those 40 islands until she systematically occupied them in 1974 behind everyone's back.




Surely Vietnam has controlled both Paracel and Spratly islands since ages. VN sent Naval forces to avoid these islands illegally occupied by the Chinese.





picture by HieuLe


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

Martian2 said:


> *The problem with crappy Vietnamese and Filipino navies*
> 
> Did anybody tell you that two combined crappy navies still equal a crappy navy?
> 
> Vietnam has a few corvettes. The most advanced Filipino ship is a 50-year-old World War II coast guard cutter.
> 
> Your navies are total garbage. They shouldn't even be allowed to be called a navy.
> 
> A single Chinese Type 054A Jiangkai II frigate could annihilate both of your crappy navies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chinese Type 054A Jiangkai II Frigate



OMG, as usual, you start bragging about warships, modern weapons, Megaton ...

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

*Tet flower, book roads to officially open 6.30pm*

Tuoi Tre: Fri, January 20, 2012,1:23 PM (GMT+0700) 

Since early this morning, hundreds have flocked to the flower and book roads on Mac Thi Buoi, Nguyen Hue, and Ngo Duc Ke streets for sightseeing as the festival is to open to the public from 6:30pm today (January 20).

On Mac Thi Buoi Street, books about Vietnamese history, traditional cultural values, and HCMC in the past will be put on display under the theme &#8220;Con Duong Truyen Thong&#8221; (The Street of Tradition). *The highlight of the road is books featuring Vietnam&#8217;s historical sea & island sovereignty over Paracel and Spratly islands*






Young women show off their beauty on Nguyen Hue flower road





Security guards protect the flower road before its opening ceremony scheduled at 6:30pm on January 20, 2012.





Workers during the final stages of Nguyen Hue flower road 

Ngo Duc Ke Street, named &#8220;Con Duong Tuong Lai&#8221; (The Street of Future), will gather books and documents about the city&#8217;s projects in the next few years. The street also includes children&#8217;s and braille books, as well as a playing area for children and book cafés.





Bookshelves are placed on Mac Thi Buoi Street to serve readers





Children read books on Ngo Duc Ke Street





The area featuring photos and documents about Vietnam&#8217;s historical sea & island sovereignty

Different from last year&#8217;s festival, this year&#8217;s will feature many traditional games and activities.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Fil Pacifist

Martian2 said:


> *The problem with crappy Vietnamese and Filipino navies*
> 
> Did anybody tell you that two combined crappy navies still equal a crappy navy?
> 
> Vietnam has a few corvettes. The most advanced Filipino ship is a 50-year-old World War II coast guard cutter.
> 
> Your navies are total garbage. They shouldn't even be allowed to be called a navy.
> 
> A single Chinese Type 054A Jiangkai II frigate could annihilate both of your crappy navies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chinese Type 054A Jiangkai II Frigate



Or this could kill all the Taiwanese missile boats like flies once it enters the Taiwan strait.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

*Some photos about daily life on Tr&#432;&#7901;ng Sa (Spratly) Islands, Khánh Hoà province, Vi&#7879;t Nam*:

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## 3starsandasun

Martian2 said:


> *The problem with crappy Vietnamese and Filipino navies*
> 
> Did anybody tell you that two combined crappy navies still equal a crappy navy?
> 
> Vietnam has a few corvettes. The most advanced Filipino ship is a 50-year-old World War II coast guard cutter.
> 
> Your navies are total garbage. They shouldn't even be allowed to be called a navy.
> 
> A single Chinese Type 054A Jiangkai II frigate could annihilate both of your crappy navies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chinese Type 054A Jiangkai II Frigate



"If i am losing the 2000-year-old-history argument... show off our useless military." - Martian2

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Shardul.....the lion

Viet said:


> *Tet flower, book roads to officially open 6.30pm*
> 
> Tuoi Tre: Fri, January 20, 2012,1:23 PM (GMT+0700)
> 
> Since early this morning, hundreds have flocked to the flower and book roads on Mac Thi Buoi, Nguyen Hue, and Ngo Duc Ke streets for sightseeing as the festival is to open to the public from 6:30pm today (January 20).
> 
> On Mac Thi Buoi Street, books about Vietnamese history, traditional cultural values, and HCMC in the past will be put on display under the theme &#8220;Con Duong Truyen Thong&#8221; (The Street of Tradition). *The highlight of the road is books featuring Vietnam&#8217;s historical sea & island sovereignty over Paracel and Spratly islands*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Young women show off their beauty on Nguyen Hue flower road
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Security guards protect the flower road before its opening ceremony scheduled at 6:30pm on January 20, 2012.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Workers during the final stages of Nguyen Hue flower road
> 
> Ngo Duc Ke Street, named &#8220;Con Duong Tuong Lai&#8221; (The Street of Future), will gather books and documents about the city&#8217;s projects in the next few years. The street also includes children&#8217;s and braille books, as well as a playing area for children and book cafés.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bookshelves are placed on Mac Thi Buoi Street to serve readers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Children read books on Ngo Duc Ke Street
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The area featuring photos and documents about Vietnam&#8217;s historical sea & island sovereignty
> 
> Different from last year&#8217;s festival, this year&#8217;s will feature many traditional games and activities.



Please open a new thread would love to see more images of festival.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## asean_2015

Interesting, the Chinese guy showed some weapons while the Vietnamese guy showed books and flowers.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

SinoChallenger said:


> June 11 is victory for China day. Thanks to our new Supreme Leader Xi Jinping, Beijing grew some balls and wielded the PLA like a mighty sword to decapitate our enemies.
> 
> There is enough oil and gas in the South China Sea to make every single Chinese as rich as Saudi or Brunei citizens! Now nobody can stop us from taking our spoils of war. Of course, we can share with our allies, but never with dirty nations like Vietnam and Philippines.





Sorry, what for victory again? Pls tell me more about all of the victories of China, I´m really interested.
Even today the PLA is just overestimated and overrated.


----------



## Secur

Who controls the Scarborough Shoal at the moment ?


----------



## &#272;&#7843;o B&#7841;ch Long V&#7929;

T-Rex said:


> Do we see india behaving peacefully with its neighbours? We know the answer first hand, so I would advise you to practice what you are trying to teach China. At least *China doesn't use its intelligence services to rig elections for her allies in the neighbouring states, it doesn't install puppet regime to secure its hegemony over its neighbours.* I'm sure you know what I'm talking about.



You don't say ... 
There is a country called *Cambodia* on this planet.

P/S: Dont tell me China is going to nuke all of its enemies ... Else, how can they "win" with *invisible historical evidences*


----------



## SinoChallenger

Secur said:


> Who controls the Scarborough Shoal at the moment ?


*China has full naval control over Scarborough Shoal 

We grabbed territory from Philippines like candy from a baby and nobody dared to challenge us!*

China ropes off Scarborough Shoal | Inquirer Global Nation

DFA hopes China will take out ropes at Scarborough Shoal | Inquirer Global Nation

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## WuMaoCleverbot

SinoChallenger said:


> *U.S. Takes A Pass  For Now  On China Sea Disputes*
> 
> *The territorial disputes in the South China Seas are over, China has won*, and the U.S. couldnt care less. But thats not necessarily bad.
> 
> While arguments over who owns which reefs, rocks and lagoons in the South China Sea will likely drag on awhile, the U.S. is saving its powder for a more important fight: keeping vital shipping lanes free from potential interference.
> 
> *A months-long standoff over a remote reef system claimed by both China and the Philippines all but ended this weekend when the Obama administration signaled it would not intervene. That means Chinese patrol boats, which in April chased a Philippines warship from the Scarborough Shoal, will remain there as long they want. So, too, will Chinese fishing and commercial exploration ships.*
> 
> Thats bad news for the neighbors. China has claimed virtually all of the South China Sea as its own, along with potentially huge deposits of oil, gas and other natural resources. The region includes the Spratly Islands, Scarborough Shoal and other scattered islets and shallows variously claimed by Vietnam, Malaysia, Taiwan, Indonesia and Brunei. If the U.S. wont wade in on behalf of the Philippines, with which it shares a 60-year-old mutual defense treaty, then it sure wont do so for anybody else. Without U.S. or other outside help, those countries will have little choice but to accept the Chinese claims, and cut whatever joint-development deals they can.
> 
> Yes, that could embolden China to make additional new demands (more on that later), but the bigger worry is whether China will use its growing air and sea power to threaten movement through the region. More than half the worlds commercial shipping passes through the South China Sea, including nearly all Mideast oil bound for Japan, South Korea, China and Southeast Asia. Just the threat of interrupting that flow could give China serious leverage in any dispute.
> 
> The U.S. is not going to send the 7th Fleet to resolve problems with fish or coral in the South China Sea, because that is not the vital interest of the United States, says Donald Weatherbee, fellow at the University of South Carolinas Walker Institute of International Studies. The vital American national interest is in freedom of navigation. (So far), China has done nothing to suggest that they are going to try to close off those waters to transit by vessels of the United States, Japan, Korea, or you name it. The minute the Chinese confronts us in that way, then its no longer a question of the Philippines or Indonesian national interest, it becomes a question of American national interests.
> 
> But while Obama wont referee competing territorial claims (urging a peaceful, diplomatic resolution  for what thats worth), the Scarborough Shoal drama shows that such disputes wont be cost-free for China. After meeting with Philippines President Benigno Aquino III in Washington on Friday, Obama said the U.S. will continue to build up its forces in the region, and will help allies like the Philippines do the same.
> 
> So far, the U.S. and Philippines have agreed to open the former Clark Air Base and Subic Bay naval facilities for U.S. troop rotations, port visits and training exercises; to donate two more retired U.S. Coast Guard cutters to the Philippines navy; and send radar and ocean-surveillance equipment to keep an eye on you-know-who. Although Clark and Subic were closed in the early 90s, the U.S. has kept about 600 Special Forces soldiers at a Philippines army base in the southern part of the country for nearly a decade.
> 
> All this is part of the re-balancing of U.S. forces in the region. Marines are moving to Australia. The U.S. and Japan are planning joint training bases in the Marianas. Spanking-new littoral combat ships will operate out of Singapore. The U.S. insists this is unrelated to China, but of course its completely related.
> 
> China is going to view this as another example of containment, no matter what the U.S. calls it, says Jeffrey Hornung, an associate professor at the Asia-Pacific Center for Security Studies in Honolulu.
> 
> Meanwhile, China hasnt made any friends with its handling of the Scarborough dispute. In addition to charging in with armed patrol boats and surveillance planes, it called off the visits of thousands of Chinese tourists to the Philippines, blocked imports of tens of millions of dollars of Philippines bananas, and even cancelled the highly-anticipated visit of Chinas national basketball team (in poor but basketball-mad Philippines, its hard to know which was the harsher response).
> 
> The dispute is sure to strengthen the hand of hawks in nearby Japan, which has a China problem in its own waters. China has made strident claims to ownership of the Senkaku Islands, which it calls the Daioyu islands, ever since a Chinese fishing was seized near the islands after colliding with a Japanese coast guard cutter in 2010. Japan released the ship and crew after China responded by embargoing shipments of rare earth materials, cancelling tourist trips to Japan and arresting a handful of Japanese businessmen on spying charges. (Japan later agreed to give 10 patrol ships to the Philippines, but says thats unrelated.)
> 
> For its part, China has played down the dispute with Japan in recent months, and has promised that it wont interfere with anyones navigation rights in the South China Sea. And it would seem foolish even to try. For all its double-digit defense spending, China is still many years away from being able to challenge U.S. military power, and no doubt knows that. Nor would it seem to have much to gain; Chinas economy is thoroughly dependent on sea-going trade and cutting off any shipping would mean cutting off its own, as well.
> 
> *So the U.S. is telling China it can take all the fish and oil it can grab*  but dont try to stop any ships along the way.
> 
> U.S. Takes A Pass  For Now  On China Sea Disputes | Battleland | TIME.com
> 
> 
> *It looks like China has taught USA a lesson about peaceful behavior*
> 
> 
> 
> *Avoiding a U.S.-China War*
> 
> Relations between the United States and China are on a course that may one day lead to war.
> 
> This month, Defense Secretary Leon Panetta announced that by 2020, 60 percent of the U.S. Navy will be deployed in the Pacific. Last November, in Australia, President Obama announced the establishment of a U.S. military base in that country, and threw down an ideological gauntlet to China with his statement that the United States will continue to speak candidly to Beijing about the importance of upholding international norms and respecting the universal human rights of the Chinese people.
> 
> The dangers inherent in present developments in American, Chinese and regional policies are set out in The China Choice: Why America Should Share Power, an important forthcoming book by the Australian international affairs expert Hugh White. As he writes, Washington and Beijing are already sliding toward rivalry by default. To escape this, White makes a strong argument for a concert of powers in Asia, as the best  and perhaps only  way that this looming confrontation can be avoided. The economic basis of such a U.S.-China agreement is indeed already in place.
> 
> The danger of conflict does not stem from a Chinese desire for global leadership. Outside East Asia, Beijing is sticking to a very cautious policy, centered on commercial advantage without military components, in part because Chinese leaders realize that it would take decades and colossal naval expenditure to allow them to mount a global challenge to the United States, and that even then they would almost certainly fail.
> 
> In East Asia, things are very different. *For most of its history, China has dominated the region. When it becomes the largest economy on earth, it will certainly seek to do so. While China cannot build up naval forces to challenge the United States in distant oceans, it would be very surprising if in future it will not be able to generate missile and air forces sufficient to deny the U.S. Navy access to the seas around China. *Moreover, China is engaged in territorial disputes with other states in the region over island groups  disputes in which Chinese popular nationalist sentiments have become heavily engaged.
> 
> With communism dead, the Chinese administration has relied very heavily  and successfully  on nationalism as an ideological support for its rule. The problem is that if clashes erupt over these islands, Beijing may find itself in a position where it cannot compromise without severe damage to its domestic legitimacy  very much the position of the European great powers in 1914.
> 
> In these disputes, Chinese nationalism collides with other nationalisms  particularly that of Vietnam, which embodies strong historical resentments. The hostility to China of Vietnam and most of the other regional states is at once Americas greatest asset and greatest danger. It means that most of Chinas neighbors want the United States to remain militarily present in the region. As White argues, even if the United States were to withdraw, it is highly unlikely that these countries would submit meekly to Chinese hegemony.
> 
> But if the United States were to commit itself to a military alliance with these countries against China, Washington would risk embroiling America in their territorial disputes. In the event of a military clash between Vietnam and China, Washington would be faced with the choice of either holding aloof and seeing its credibility as an ally destroyed, or fighting China.
> 
> Neither the United States nor China would win the resulting war outright, but they would certainly inflict catastrophic damage on each other and on the world economy. If the conflict escalated into a nuclear exchange, modern civilization would be wrecked. Even a prolonged period of military and strategic rivalry with an economically mighty China will gravely weaken Americas global position. Indeed, U.S. overstretch is already apparent  for example in Washingtons neglect of the crumbling states of Central America.
> 
> To avoid this, *Whites suggested East Asian order would establish red lines that the United States and China would both agree not to cross  most notably a guarantee not to use force without the others permission, or in clear self-defense. Most sensitively of all, while China would have to renounce the use of force against Taiwan, Washington would most probably have to publicly commit itself to the reunification of Taiwan with China.
> 
> Equally important, China would have to acknowledge the legitimacy of the U.S. presence in East Asia, since this is desired by other East Asian states, and the United States would have to acknowledge the legitimacy of Chinas existing political order, since it has brought economic breakthrough and greatly enhanced real freedoms to the people of China.* Under such a concert, U.S. statements like those of President Obama in support of Chinas democratization would have to be jettisoned.
> 
> As White argues, such a concert of power between the United States, China and regional states would be so difficult to arrange that it would hardly be worth considering if the alternatives were not so bad. But as his book brings out with chilling force, the alternatives may well be catastrophic.
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/13/opinion/avoiding-a-us-china-war.html
> 
> 
> *Good, now we have "peace in our time."*










Remeber this article and thread:


Embarrassment as Chinese frigate runs aground
Date
July 13, 2012 - 3:22PM

http://www.defence.pk/forums/chines...ays-navy-ship-hits-rocks-disputed-waters.html

A Chinese warship has run aground while patrolling contested waters adjacent to the Philippines in the South China Sea.
The frigate pinned itself to a reef last night at Half Moon Shoal, on the south-eastern edge of the Spratly Islands, and remains "thoroughly stuck", according to Western diplomatic sources shortly after midday local time, or 2pm AEST.
Salvage operations could be diplomatically challenging, given the vessel appears to have run aground within 200 kilometres of the Philippines coast, which is squarely within what Manila claims to be its Exclusive Economic Zone.
The stricken People's Liberation Army Navy vessel, believed to be No. 560, a Jianghu-class frigate, has in the past been involved in aggressively discouraging Filipino fishing boats from the area.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/chines...ays-navy-ship-hits-rocks-disputed-waters.html


My question is: Why did the Chinese refloated the Chinese vessel and not leave it there??? This thread is claiming "The territorial disputes in the South China Seas are over, China has won." The action of the Chinese gov't already rebutted this article ( U.S. Takes A Pass  For Now  On China Sea Disputes ). 

I think the Chinese gov't knows what red lines they are not supposed to cross if they don't want their a$$ kicked. 




SinoChallenger said:


> *China has full naval control over Scarborough Shoal
> 
> We grabbed territory from Philippines like candy from a baby and nobody dared to challenge us!*
> 
> China ropes off Scarborough Shoal | Inquirer Global Nation
> 
> DFA hopes China will take out ropes at Scarborough Shoal | Inquirer Global Nation



My question is: Why only a ROPE??? Why not build a Chinese garrison??? Those rope can be easily denied by the Chinese gov't and can be easily blamed to Chinese fishermen.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Banglar Lathial

A criminal entity like USA has no place in Asia, including the disputed territories between some East Asian countries. It would be better if diplomacy and dialogue is pursued to its fullest extent in reaching a harmonious solution to any dispute in East Asia.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## p3avi8tor69

Banglar Lathial said:


> A criminal entity like USA has no place in Asia, including the disputed territories between some East Asian countries. It would be better if diplomacy and dialogue is pursued to its fullest extent in reaching a harmonious solution to any dispute in East Asia.



Haven't you been keeping up with current events. It's your darling China who is conducting armed patrol ie gunboat diplomacy in South East Asia.


----------



## Banglar Lathial

p3avi8tor69 said:


> Haven't you been keeping up with current events. It's your darling China who is conducting armed patrol ie gunboat diplomacy in South East Asia.



Ignoring your veiled personal insults, China has so far not had a conflict with the majority of ASEAN countries. It is preferable that all parties in East Asia resort to dialogue and diplomacy to resolve any misunderstanding.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

SinoChallenger said:


> *China has full naval control over Scarborough Shoal
> We grabbed territory from Philippines like candy from a baby and nobody dared to challenge us!*




That is a lession that the Philippines should learn for the future: Do not trust the Chinese!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## LvpAK

before 1970,Philippean never mark Spratly Islands as their's on its official maps. now you say"China is win". LOL, Philippean still take 10 Islands in south china sea. 
In my eyes, you lost 10 coins,now you take back a half coin,the huangyan, and you say you win? Though I don't think nine line is fair.but the SPratly Islands no doubt is belong to china.


----------



## &#272;&#7843;o B&#7841;ch Long V&#7929;

LvpAK said:


> *before 1970,Philippean never mark Spratly Islands as their's on its official maps*. now you say"China is win". LOL, Philippean still take 10 Islands in south china sea.
> In my eyes, you lost 10 coins,now you take back a half coin,the huangyan, and you say you win? Though I don't think nine line is fair.but the SPratly Islands no doubt is belong to china.



Before 1930 Chinese never mark Paracels and Spartly Islands on their official maps while Vietnamese had marked those at least since 18th Century. And now you are talking about official maps?  What a shame 



Banglar Lathial said:


> Ignoring your veiled personal insults, China has so far not had a conflict with the majority of ASEAN countries. *It is preferable that all parties in East Asia resort to dialogue and diplomacy to resolve any misunderstanding.*



Of course, but China don't like it, because they don't have a single base of their claim, except "we occupied it from other hands by our mighty super-strong supreme Military-super-power". How can you start "dialogue and diplomacy" while you don't have a single base of your claim?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## oct605032048

Last time I remember VN was some belongings on the French colonial map in the 1930s.


----------



## EastSea

oct605032048 said:


> Last time I remember VN was some belongings on the French colonial map in the 1930s.



France invaded Vietnam, 1883-1945 France made protectorate control over Vietnam, Nguyen Kingdom of Vietnam was existed until 1945 as symbol of Vietnam Country. China was ruled by Mongolian, Manchus and Japan, Britain (until 1997) recently.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Banglar Lathial

&#272;&#7843;o B&#7841;ch Long V&#7929;;3300381 said:


> Of course, but China don't like it, because they don't have a single base of their claim, except "we occupied it from other hands by our mighty super-strong supreme Military-super-power". How can you start "dialogue and diplomacy" while you don't have a single base of your claim?




This matter should be resolved by all involved regional countries on the basis of mutual respect and understanding through dialogue and diplomatic means to avoid any misunderstanding.


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

Banglar Lathial said:


> This matter should be resolved by all involved regional countries on the basis of mutual respect and understanding through dialogue and diplomatic means to avoid any misunderstanding.



Yes, but sadly our chinese friend who always insists that it only talks "bilateral" separately from each ASEAN country, but this is not possible because the SCS is a multilateral dispute.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Hasbara Buster

SinoChallenger said:


> Never forget what our Chairman Mao taught us!  USA imperialism is a paper tiger!



And Iran's Khomeini said; "America can't do a damn thing against us." 

Mao and Khomeini really were fiercely anti-imperialist minded leaders who had dignity. As opposed to most leaders in the world today who love sucking western **** 24/7 with only a few exceptions like Chavez and Ahmadinejad. So sad!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## 3starsandasun

LvpAK said:


> before 1970,Philippean never mark Spratly Islands as their's on its official maps. now you say"China is win". LOL, Philippean still take 10 Islands in south china sea.
> In my eyes, you lost 10 coins,now you take back a half coin,the huangyan, and you say you win? Though I don't think nine line is fair.but the SPratly Islands no doubt is belong to china.


Who's Philippean? 

Our GDP may not be as high as the arrogant Chinese but our intelligence is not as low as theirs. Our elementary students already know that the people living in France are not called Francean and those in Japan as Japanian.

You have a great military to brag about but atleast try not to show how little educated you are compared to those who doesnt even have a decent military to defend its own coasts.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

"Every Communist must grasp the truth: Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun."

"Stalin is our greatest father and teacher. In the name of Chinese people and Chinese Communist Party, we celebrate comrade Stalin's seventy birthday. May he be in the best health and live a long life! Leader of both the world's working class and Communist Internationale  Ten thousand years of life to Stalin!"

Mao Zedong


----------



## Viet

You know, the Chinese love weapons such as this type of Jiangkai II Frigate. I also love to see if it can withstand TSS-N-25 Switchblade anti-ship missiles, that we can self produce with Russian support.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NewCastle2012

Give me break. I agree that you have the ability to make Nike shoes. But missiles? Show me something real or stop bragging.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## &#272;&#7843;o B&#7841;ch Long V&#7929;

NewCastle2012 said:


> Give me break. I agree that you have the ability to make Nike shoes. But missiles? Show me something real or stop bragging.



No we can't make a bullet, a grenade, a gun ...etc... We don't have money to buy tanks, fighters, missiles, warships...
Keep believing it

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

Shardul.....the lion said:


> Please open a new thread would love to see more images of festival.



I am not quite sure if the forum admins will agree?



NewCastle2012 said:


> Give me break. I agree that you have the ability to make Nike shoes. But missiles? Show me something real or stop bragging.









Head of the Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation Mikhail Dmitriyev

*Russia, Vietnam to Jointly Manufacture Anti-Ship Missiles
*

16:45 15/02/2012
MOSCOW, February 15 (RIA Novosti)

Russia and Vietnam are planning to start in 2012 joint production of a modified anti-ship missile, head of the Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation Mikhail Dmitriyev said on Wednesday.

&#8220;We are planning to build facilities in Vietnam for the production of a version of the Russian Uran [*SS-N-25 Switchblade*] missile in a project that is similar to joint Russian-Indian production of the BrahMos missile,&#8221; Dmitriyev said.

The Uran subsonic anti-ship missile can be launched from helicopters, surface ships and coastal defense batteries. It has a range of up to 250 kilometers (135 nautical miles) and carries a 145-kilogram high explosive warhead.

Russian-Indian joint venture BrahMos Aerospace Ltd, set up in 1998, manufactures supersonic cruise missiles based on the Russian-designed NPO Mashinostroyenie 3M55 Yakhont (SS-N-26).
Sea- and ground-launched versions have been successfully tested and put into service with the Indian Army and Navy.

http://en.rian.ru/world/20120215/171330093.html

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Martian2

asean_2015 said:


> Interesting, the Chinese guy showed some weapons while the Vietnamese guy showed books and flowers.



Tell me, are we on a defense forum where we discuss military weapon systems or is this a home-and-garden website?

My posts are appropriate for an armchair general.

The Vietnamese guy is a peacenik and he's the oddball on this defense forum.

Incidentally, armchair generals quote Sun Tzu's Art of War. We do not quote Gandhi (e.g. another peacenik).


----------



## &#272;&#7843;o B&#7841;ch Long V&#7929;

Martian2 said:


> Tell me, are we on a defense forum where we discuss military weapon systems or is this a home-and-garden website?
> 
> My posts are appropriate for an armchair general.
> 
> The Vietnamese guy is a peacenik and he's the oddball on this defense forum.
> 
> Incidentally, armchair generals quote Sun Tzu's Art of War. We do not quote Gandhi (e.g. another peacenik).



Just show your nukes, it's more terrified than some fake toys like paper aircraft and/or tank model...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

@Martian2:

1 unit of Type 054 frigate costs about $US 250 million
1 unit of SS-N-25 anti-ship missile costs about $US 0,5 million

Let take 2 missiles on 1 warship, so that would cost us about $ US 1 million. That would be a huge loss for the Chinese if they dare to send these costly warships into the SCS war zone.

I am not peaceful if it comes to a worst case.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NewCastle2012

Anti-ship missile is always an extremely cost-effective weapon against ships. Since SS-N-25 is a type of airborne missile, the top priority is to shot down the Su-30s or to keep them at least 200Km away.




Viet said:


> @Martian2:
> 
> 1 unit of Type 054 frigate costs about $US 250 million
> 1 unit of SS-N-25 anti-ship missile costs about $US 0,5 million
> 
> Let take 2 missiles on 1 warship, so that would cost us about $ US 1 million. That would be a huge loss for the Chinese if they dare to send these costly warships into the SCS war zone.
> 
> I am not peaceful if it comes to a worst case.


----------



## Martian2

Viet said:


> @Martian2:
> 
> 1 unit of Type 054 frigate costs about $US 250 million
> 1 unit of SS-N-25 anti-ship missile costs about $US 0,5 million
> 
> Let take 2 missiles on 1 warship, so that would cost us about $ US 1 million. That would be a huge loss for the Chinese if they dare to send these costly warships into the SCS war zone.
> 
> I am not peaceful if it comes to a worst case.



China's Type 054 Jiangkai-II frigate has a modern radar. You Vietnamese do not possess that kind of high technology.

The Jiangkai-II frigate will detect and sink your puny little corvettes long before the Jiangkai-II frigate comes within range of the tiny radars on your Vietnamese corvettes.

Buying a missile is useless if you (Vietnam) don't have a modern radar to detect the enemy (China) at great distances before they (China) detect and destroy you (Vietnam).

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## grandmaster

Martian2 said:


> China's Type 054 Jiangkai-II frigate has a modern radar. You Vietnamese do not possess that kind of high technology.
> 
> The Jiangkai-II frigate will detect and sink your puny little corvettes long before the Jiangkai-II frigate comes within range of the tiny radars on your Vietnamese corvettes.
> 
> Buying a missile is useless if you (Vietnam) don't have a modern radar to detect the enemy (China) at great distances before they (China) detect and destroy you (Vietnam).



common, it is ok to let them brag about other countries' weapons! use these weapons to kill mosquitoes is good for human being though

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Fil Pacifist

Martian2 said:


> *China is 20 Germanies*
> 
> You're retarded.
> By the way, *Filipino monkeys *have no right to brag and speak on behalf of the United States. The U.S. gave your country a measly $30 million in military aid for 2012 to make you go away. That can hardly be called strong support.
> 
> No one will fight a war for Filipinos. There is no vital U.S. national interest. You Filipinos will have to eventually face the PLA Navy on your own.
> 
> In 1988, at the battle of Johnson Reef, the Vietnamese sent out their marines for a showdown with the PLA Navy. The PLA Navy wiped out all of the Vietnamese marines, except for one survivor. The Vietnamese were stupid to confront a Chinese frigate, but at least they had guts.
> 
> Come out you Filipino chickens. You and your *monkey leader *Aquino trash talk a lot, but where are your Filipino marines? Send them out and let the PLA Navy mow you idiots down.



Why is it that this Formosan, who is acting more "HAN" than the mainlanders have this chronic obsession with monkeys? Does he also share the habits of the mainlanders who relish licking the b*tts of these little primates? 







±£ÓýÔ±ÌòºïÆ¨¹ÉÒ»Ð¡Ê±°ïÆäÅÅ±ã(Í¼)_ÍøÒ×ÐÂÎÅÖÐÐÄ

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

grandmaster said:


> common, it is ok to let them brag about other countries' weapons! use these weapons to kill mosquitoes is good for human being though



Yes, but when Russia-Vietnam "Jointly Manufacture" it will no longer the "other countries' weapons." Do you understand? View quote in # 264

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Martian2

*$1 trillion cuts in the U.S. military budget over the next ten years*

You anti-China haters need to live in the real world. The U.S. military is in the process of being gutted.

There is $1 trillion over ten years being cut from the Pentagon budget starting January 2013 (right after the presidential election). In ten years, the U.S. military will be a shadow of its current self. 

There will be no significant U.S. attempt to counterbalance China in Asia. If you're broke, you can't do squat. That's a fact.

----------

Pentagon plans for pivot to Asia need work: study | Reuters

"Pentagon plans for pivot to Asia need work: study
WASHINGTON | Fri Jul 27, 2012 5:34pm EDT
...
The Pentagon "has not adequately articulated the strategy behind its force posture planning nor aligned the strategy with resources in a way that reflects current budget realities," CSIS said in its report.

*While the Pentagon is planning to make nearly $500 billion in cuts to projected spending over the next 10 years, it is seeking to stave off an additional $500 billion in potential cuts under a process known as 'sequestration.'*"

[Note: Thank you to Paul Yih for the newslink.]

[Additional note: Sequestration is an automatic across-the-board cut to the annual U.S. budget, unless the Democrats and Republicans can agree on a budget deal. We all know hell will freeze over before Democrats (more taxes on the rich) and Republicans (lower taxes on the rich and reduced spending on everything except the military) can agree to aforesaid budget deal. Therefore, sequestration is inevitable.]

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## &#272;&#7843;o B&#7841;ch Long V&#7929;

Martian2 said:


> China's Type 054 Jiangkai-II frigate has a modern radar. You Vietnamese do not possess that kind of high technology.
> 
> The Jiangkai-II frigate will detect and sink your puny little corvettes long before the Jiangkai-II frigate comes within range of the tiny radars on your Vietnamese corvettes.
> 
> Buying a missile is useless if *you (Vietnam) don't have a modern radar to detect the enemy (China) at great distances* before they (China) detect and destroy you (Vietnam).



Czech Defense Minister Talks up High-Tech Arms Sales to Vietnam - RP Defense

Vietnam is going to buy VERA-E which can detect even F-22... 
And they said that Chinese J-20 will have a better stealth technology than F-22

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Martian2

&#272;&#7843;o B&#7841;ch Long V&#7929;;3310214 said:


> Czech Defense Minister Talks up High-Tech Arms Sales to Vietnam - RP Defense
> 
> Vietnam is going to buy VERA-E which can detect even F-22...
> And they said that Chinese J-20 will have a better stealth technology than F-22



Key word is "going to." You guys are always "going to" do something. That is pure speculation. Wait until you actually have something before you start bragging. Okay?

Right now, you Vietnamese have nothing. No Kilo submarine or VERA-E radar. Got it?


----------



## &#272;&#7843;o B&#7841;ch Long V&#7929;

Martian2 said:


> Key word is "going to." You guys are always "going to" do something. That is pure speculation. Wait until you actually have something before you start bragging. Okay?
> 
> Right now, you Vietnamese have nothing. No Kilo submarine or VERA-E radar. Got it?


 
Can China buy VERA-E?
Is China going to attack Vietnam this year?
No, and no

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Martian2

&#272;&#7843;o B&#7841;ch Long V&#7929;;3310271 said:


> Can China buy VERA-E?
> Is China going to attack Vietnam this year?
> No, and no



China has advanced second-generation naval AESA radar. Want me to post the picture again for you?

Will China attack Vietnam to defend its South China Sea sovereignty this year? It depends on Vietnamese provocations.

----------

*Next-generation AESA radar for China's Type 052C destroyer undergoes tests*

The current S-band AESA radar for China's Type 052C destroyer is convex-shaped. It has "a maximum range of 450km and a maximum resolution of 0.5 meters."

The new next-generation AESA radar is flat and square-shaped (shown below). Its capabilities are currently unknown.





Close-up view of next-generation AESA radar for China's Type 052C destroyer. Try to ignore the distracting fence.





Next-generation AESA radar for the Type 052C destroyer undergoes tests on weapon-testbed Ship #891.

[Note: Thank you to Greyboy2 for the post.]


----------



## &#272;&#7843;o B&#7841;ch Long V&#7929;

Martian2 said:


> Will China attack Vietnam to defend its South China Sea sovereignty this year? It depends on Vietnamese provocations.



Nah, to invade SCS this year... 
BTW, the answer will still be "no" 



Martian2 said:


> *Next-generation AESA radar for China's Type 052C destroyer undergoes tests*



A simple question: Can your Radar detect F-22?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Martian2

&#272;&#7843;o B&#7841;ch Long V&#7929;;3310619 said:


> A simple question: Can your Radar detect F-22?



No one knows. The F-22 is optimized for stealth in the X-band. The Chinese naval AESA radar operates in the S-band. The Chinese KJ-2000 AWACS operates in the L-band. Other Chinese ground radars operate in the low radar bands (e.g. VHF or UHF).

Theoretically, a F-22 should be visible in other radar bands. However, no one knows for sure at what distance a F-22 is visible in other radar wavelengths.


----------



## Viet

question: can Chinese warships detect incoming missiles of type of SS-N-25 Switchblade and SS-N-26 Yakhont?



Martian2 said:


> *$1 trillion cuts in the U.S. military budget over the next ten years*
> You anti-China haters need to live in the real world. The U.S. military is in the process of being gutted.
> 
> There is $1 trillion over ten years being cut from the Pentagon budget starting January 2013 (right after the presidential election). In ten years, the U.S. military will be a shadow of its current self.
> 
> There will be no significant U.S. attempt to counterbalance China in Asia. If you're broke, you can't do squat. That's a fact.
> 
> ----------



Not, if the candidats Romney/Ryan from the Republican win the election. The military cut will be abandoned, and moreover they will increase the defence budget by 10%.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Martian2

Viet said:


> question: can Chinese warships detect incoming missiles of type of SS-N-25 Switchblade and SS-N-26 Yakhont?
> 
> Not, if the candidats Romney/Ryan from the Republican win the election. The military cut will be abandoned, and moreover they will increase the defence budget by 10%.



Yes, they are easily detectable with radar or infrared. Neither Russian missile is stealthy. They can be shot down with an anti-missile missile or CIWS.

Romney has very little chance of winning. Have you seen the electoral map? Don't count on a Romney victory.


----------



## Viet

Martian2 said:


> Yes, they are easily detectable with radar or infrared. Neither Russian missile is stealthy. They can be shot down with an anti-missile missile or CIWS.




Again, how exactly can you easily detect and destroy incoming missiles of this type?
The rockets fly only few meters over the water surface when approaching a target.

I don´t believe the Russians sell junk to us.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Martian2

Viet said:


> Again, how exactly can you easily detect and destroy incoming missiles of this type?
> The rockets fly only few meters over the water surface when approaching a target.
> 
> I don´t believe the Russians sell junk to us.



*CIWS shoots down an incoming missile flying above the water at 0:32 in the video*

1. You seem to be unaware that radar can detect a submarine's tiny periscope peeking above the water surface. A missile flying meters above the water is a relatively easy target to detect with modern radars.

2. A CIWS (close in weapon system) has been proven to shoot down an incoming missile. See 0:32 in the video below.

3. There are surface radars specifically designed to guide anti-missile missiles to their target.

4. I never said the Russians are selling you junk. I just said an incoming missile can be shot down with the proper defensive weapons, which China possesses.

Goalkeeper CIWS Gun System - YouTube


----------



## NiceGuy

Martian2 said:


> *CIWS shoots down an incoming missile flying above the water at 0:32 in the video*
> 
> 1. You seem to be unaware that radar can detect a submarine's tiny periscope peeking above the water surface. A missile flying meters above the water is a relatively easy target to detect with modern radars.
> 
> 2. A CIWS (close in weapon system) has been proven to shoot down an incoming missile. See 0:32 in the video below.
> 
> 3. There are surface radars specifically designed to guide anti-missile missiles to their target.
> 
> 4. I never said the Russians are selling you junk. I just said an incoming missile can be shot down with the proper defensive weapons, which China possesses.
> 
> Goalkeeper CIWS Gun System - YouTube


If we shoot from 3 to 5 Yakhont at the same time, then you have No chance to shoot them down

Simple tactic to sink a warship: shoot more anti-ship missile than anti-anti ship missile of the warship.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Martian2

NiceGuy said:


> If we shoot from 3 to 5 Yakhont at the same time, then you have No chance to shoot them down
> 
> Simple tactic to sink a warship: shoot more anti-ship missile than anti-anti ship missile of the warship.



1. China has thousands of anti-missile missiles. China has been building missiles for decades. You Vietnamese can't afford to buy more than a handful of Russian missiles. Your strategy won't work.

2. I've already stated that advanced Chinese AESA radars can detect little Vietnamese corvettes long before Chinese warships come within range of crappy Vietnamese radars. China gets to see and shoot first at a very long range. You Vietnamese have no chance of winning.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

We have three options to fire antiship missiles: warships, aircrafts and last but not least coastal-based positions.
If a war breaks out, we are sure that Russia and the U.S. will support Vietnam with all the funny things we need for a fight.

In theory we never have a chance against China. But the reality says differently.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## NiceGuy

Martian2 said:


> 1. China has thousands of anti-missile missiles. China has been building missiles for decades. You Vietnamese can't afford to buy more than a handful of Russian missiles. Your strategy won't work.
> 
> .


how many anti-antin ship missile One warship can carry ?? your ships can't just carry thousand missiles at same time.


> 2. I've already stated that advanced Chinese AESA radars can detect little Vietnamese corvettes long before Chinese warships come within range of crappy Vietnamese radars. China gets to see and shoot first at a very long range. You Vietnamese have no chance of winning


Hehe, then where is your warship and aircraft when our su-27 patrolled near Itu-aba isl ??

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Martian2

NiceGuy said:


> how many anti-antin ship missile One warship can carry ?? your ships can't just carry thousand missiles at same time.
> 
> Hehe, then where is your warship and aircraft when our su-27 patrolled near Itu-aba isl ??



A 4,000-ton Chinese Type 054A Jiangkai II frigate can carry a lot more anti-missile missiles than your Vietnamese toy 500-ton corvettes.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## grandmaster

Martian2 said:


> A 4,000-ton Chinese Type 054A Jiangkai II frigate can carry a lot more anti-missile missiles than your Vietnamese toy 500-ton corvettes.



common, we know what degree china is at. it is not worth replying vietnamese bragging. just pretend to be scared of their stuff and ignore them, vietnamese doesnt deserve hearing such kind of frigate

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NiceGuy

Martian2 said:


> A 4,000-ton Chinese Type 054A Jiangkai II frigate can carry a lot more anti-missile missiles than your Vietnamese toy 500-ton corvettes.


And where is it when our su-27 patrolled near Itu-aba isl ?? docking at bay and cry like coward baby ?? poor you

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

Martian2 said:


> A 4,000-ton Chinese Type 054A Jiangkai II frigate can carry a lot more anti-missile missiles than your Vietnamese toy 500-ton corvettes.



It can withstand how many this type missiles:












Or this type:








grandmaster said:


> common, we know what degree china is at. it is not worth replying vietnamese bragging. just pretend to be scared of their stuff and ignore them, vietnamese doesnt deserve hearing such kind of frigate



Yes, and you deserve for what?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## &#272;&#7843;o B&#7841;ch Long V&#7929;

grandmaster said:


> common, we know what degree china is at. it is not worth replying vietnamese bragging. just pretend to be scared of their stuff and ignore them, vietnamese doesnt deserve hearing such kind of frigate



They have nukes, you know


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

*"Emotion of Truong Sa" by V&#361; Anh Tu&#7845;n:* [April 2012]

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

"Emotion of Truong Sa" by V&#361; Anh Tu&#7845;n: [April 2012]

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Martian2

*Chinese Type 054A Jiangkai II frigate has a 32-cell VLS launcher and two Type 730 CIWS*

GrandMaster is correct. I shouldn't waste my time with you Vietnamese clowns. Hence, this is my last post on China's 4,000-ton Jiangkai II frigate.





The [Type 054A Jiangkai II] frigate "Yantai" of the 11th Chinese naval escort flotilla arrives at Constanta port, about 220 km East of Bucharest, capital of Romania, July 31, 2012. (Photo/Xinhua)





Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) Navy soldiers stand on board at the frigate "Yantai" of the 11th Chinese naval escort flotilla as it arrives at Constanta port, about 220 km East of Bucharest, capital of Romania, July 31, 2012. The Chinese frigate began a five-day goodwill visit to Romania from Tuesday. (Photo/Xinhua)





New close-up pictures of Type 054A's vertical launchers all opened

1. China's Type 054A has a very powerful engine and modern long-range radar in comparison to a tiny Vietnamese corvette. It can detect and destroy a corvette beyond the range of a tiny corvette's short-range antiquated radar.

2. China's Type 054A has a 32-cell VLS (vertical launch system) that carries HQ-16 missiles, which are equivalent to American SM-2 missiles.

3. China's Type 054A has two Type 730 CIWS (close-in weapon system) for short-range defense.

Reference: Type 054A frigate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Note: Thank you to Greyboy2 for the pictures and third caption.]


----------



## NiceGuy

Martian2 said:


> Chinese Type 054A Jiangkai II frigate has a 32-cell VLS launcher and two Type 730 CIWS
> 
> GrandMaster is correct. I shouldn't waste my time with you Vietnamese clowns. Hence, this is my last post on China's 4,000-ton Jiangkai II frigate.


Useless cheap copy ship, we're controlling the sky near Itu-aba now, and we can't see that junk dares to roam around

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NewCastle2012

Vietnamese always say that Chinese members on this forum like to post photos. I find that you like to post paintings. More room for imagination, right?


NiceGuy said:


> Useless cheap copy ship, we're controlling the sky near Itu-aba now, and we can't see that junk dares to roam around


----------



## NiceGuy

NewCastle2012 said:


> Vietnamese always say that Chinese members on this forum like to post photos. I find that you like to post paintings. More room for imagination, right?


I posted a footage





, but no chinese can answer why 'mighty' Chinese Type 054A dare not face with our Su-27 near Itu-aba (or they knew Type 054A is just a Junk, but still bragging here). So, I just simply changed to new pic .That's all.


----------



## Martian2

NiceGuy said:


> I posted a footage
> 
> , but no chinese can answer why 'mighty' Chinese Type 054A dare not face with our Su-27 near Itu-aba (or they knew Type 054A is just a Junk, but still bragging here). So, I just simply changed to new pic .That's all.



*Vietnamese ant asks Chinese lion: "why haven't you stepped on me yet?"*

A stupid Vietnamese ant stands in front of a Chinese lion and asks, "why haven't you stepped on me yet?"

Answer: If we did, the world would claim we're mean. So we're waiting for the dumb ant to increase its provocation to justify a Chinese crushing of the ant. We will step on you soon enough.


----------



## sand_of_vietnam

Just a lovely song of 600 people for our islands
youtube.com/watch?v=xpeW1VhbRkQ
we love peace, we don't want a war, we always afraid of war but if it happen, we will fight as our generations did before

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## sand_of_vietnam

Martian2 said:


> *Vietnamese ant asks Chinese lion: "why haven't you stepped on me yet?"*
> 
> A stupid Vietnamese ant stands in front of a Chinese lion and asks, "why haven't you stepped on me yet?"
> 
> Answer: If we did, the world would claim we're mean. So we're waiting for the dumb ant to increase its provocation to justify a Chinese crushing of the ant. We will step on you soon enough.


The world will know the true face of the "lion" soon
around you not only an ant, there are many and also in your ear such as Tibet, Urumqi, HongKong

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## NiceGuy

Martian2 said:


> *Vietnamese ant asks Chinese lion: "why haven't you stepped on me yet?"*
> 
> A stupid Vietnamese ant stands in front of a Chinese lion and asks, "why haven't you stepped on me yet?"
> 
> Answer: If we did, the world would claim we're mean. So we're waiting for the dumb ant to increase its provocation to justify a Chinese crushing of the ant. We will step on you soon enough.


\Hehe, do I need to remind you that china is controlling by the most corrupted chinese family Xi jinping ??

War is good for low-life chinese like you bcz you can end up your worthless life like hero, but it's bad for their assests. So, just like Mr. Gadaffi, Mr. Xi would rather chose a civil war than a war with VN to protect his assests


----------



## Fil Pacifist

sand_of_vietnam said:


> The world will know the true face of the "lion" soon
> around you not only an ant, there are many and also in your ear such as Tibet, Urumqi, HongKong



His native Taiwan is also an ant.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Martian2

Fil Pacifist said:


> His native Taiwan is also an ant.



However, Taiwan can crush both the Vietnamese and Filipino navies with little effort.

Taiwan's air force has 327 modern fourth-generation fighters (e.g. F-16s, Mirage 2000s, and indigenous FCK-1s). In comparison, Vietnam only has 39 and the Philippines has ZERO fourth-generation fighters.

Taiwan is more like a terrier. We're big enough to matter and too much to handle for Third World non-industrialized countries like Vietnam and the Philippines.

Taiwan also builds its own Hsiung Feng 3 supersonic missiles. Can you Third World Vietnamese and Filipinos make the same claim?

References:

Republic of China Air Force

Hsiung Feng 3

----------





Taiwan's FCK-1 (Fighter Ching Kuo)


----------



## Fil Pacifist

Martian2 said:


> However, Taiwan can crush both the Vietnamese and Filipino navies with little effort.
> 
> Taiwan's air force has 327 modern fourth-generation fighters (e.g. F-16s, Mirage 2000s, and indigenous FCK-1s). In comparison, Vietnam only has 39 and the Philippines has ZERO fourth-generation fighters.
> 
> Taiwan is more like a terrier. We're big enough to matter and too much to handle for Third World non-industrialized countries like Vietnam and the Philippines.
> 
> Taiwan also builds its own Hsiung Feng 3 supersonic missiles. Can you Third World Vietnamese and Filipinos make the same claim?
> 
> References:
> 
> Republic of China Air Force
> 
> Hsiung Feng 3
> 
> ----------
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taiwan's FCK-1 (Fighter Ching Kuo)



So the terrier Taiwan was armed to the teeth to counter other ants like the Philippines?
That would be an overkill.
I suppose those war fighting machines you posted are to be used to defend against the lion when she decides to gobble the terrier.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Fil Pacifist

A stupid Taiwanese terrier stands in front of a Chinese lion and asks, "why haven't you gobbled me up yet?"

Answer: If we did, the world would claim we're mean. So we're waiting for the dumb terrier to declare its independence to justify a Chinese crushing of the terrier. We will gobble you up soon enough.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Hideki Yukawa

Martian2 said:


> However, Taiwan can crush both the Vietnamese and Filipino navies with little effort.
> 
> Taiwan's air force has 327 modern fourth-generation fighters (e.g. F-16s, Mirage 2000s, and indigenous FCK-1s). In comparison, Vietnam only has 39 and the Philippines has ZERO fourth-generation fighters.
> 
> Taiwan is more like a terrier. We're big enough to matter and too much to handle for Third World non-industrialized countries like Vietnam and the Philippines.



By this opinion, we can recognize a smart theory of Chinese brothers: Before any war, two country bring quantity of their weapons to compare with the opponent. Who have more is the winner and they need not to open fire. 

It helps me know why "super" PLA created a large number of trivial troops (certainly, in anniversaries, their big mouths are awesome! ) and secondhand copied weapons. In Korean war, human waves of "super" PLA prove. Very fantastic!



Fil Pacifist said:


> A stupid Taiwanese terrier stands in front of a Chinese lion and asks, "why haven't you gobbled me up yet?"
> 
> Answer: If we did, the world would claim we're mean. So we're waiting for the dumb terrier to declare its independence to justify a Chinese crushing of the terrier. We will gobble you up soon enough.



Very simple. Just one sentence. Both of them are Han, nothing different.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## notte

Martian2 said:


> 1. China has thousands of anti-missile missiles. China has been building missiles for decades. You Vietnamese can't afford to buy more than a handful of Russian missiles. Your strategy won't work.
> 
> 2. I've already stated that advanced Chinese AESA radars can detect little Vietnamese corvettes long before Chinese warships come within range of crappy Vietnamese radars. China gets to see and shoot first at a very long range. You Vietnamese have no chance of winning.


Hey friend, you have good knowledge, don't let other get you angry

You know that Earth surface is curved, don't you? At ship height, maximum detection range, double the horizon distance maybe 40 km, at that rang every radar may detect ship size target



NiceGuy said:


> \Hehe, do I need to remind you that china is controlling by the most corrupted chinese family Xi jinping ??
> 
> War is good for low-life chinese like you bcz you can end up your worthless life like hero, but it's bad for their assests. So, just like Mr. Gadaffi, Mr. Xi would rather chose a civil war than a war with VN to protect his assests


Martian is ready to sacrifice himself to kill some of his nation enemy like you and bring glory to his nation.


----------



## SinoChallenger

Hideki Yukawa said:


> By this opinion, we can recognize a smart theory of Chinese brothers: Before any war, two country bring quantity of their weapons to compare with the opponent. Who have more is the winner and they need not to open fire.
> 
> It helps me know why "super" PLA created a large number of trivial troops (certainly, in anniversaries, their big mouths are awesome! ) and secondhand copied weapons. In Korean war, human waves of "super" PLA prove. Very fantastic!


Just a few megaton nuclear blasts on Tokyo and Japan will sink into the ocean 

China already took control over Diaoyu Islands with our civilian activists. Now we are going to land on Ryukyu Islands too.


----------



## SinoChallenger

Viet said:


> We have three options to fire antiship missiles: warships, aircrafts and last but not least coastal-based positions.
> If a war breaks out, we are sure that Russia and the U.S. will support Vietnam with all the funny things we need for a fight.
> 
> In theory we never have a chance against China. But the reality says differently.


 Is that what your Vietnam propaganda says? We slaughtered you like monkeys in 74, 79, 84 and 88. Looking forward to doing it again.


----------



## &#272;&#7843;o B&#7841;ch Long V&#7929;

NOOOOOOOOO......., SinoChallenger is coming with nukes, God save the King

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Martian2

*Dead Silence meets Chinese 10-MIRV-capable DF-41 ICBM test on July 24, 2012*

The most interesting responses to China's 10-MIRV-capable DF-41 ICBM test on July 24, 2012:

1. "A Pentagon spokeswoman declined to comment on the missile test." The Pentagon does not discuss China's DF-41 ICBM test, 5,000km Underground Great Wall, JL-2 SLBM tests, or DF-21D "carrier killer" ASBM tests.

In other words, the Pentagon is useless to us for current information on the latest developments of Chinese military hardware.

2. All of the major American newspapers ignore the 10-MIRV-capable DF-41 ICBM test.

There is serious denial among the American media. China is transforming into a full-fledged thermonuclear power and the Western media pretend it's not happening.

I have to wonder if the timing of the DF-41 test is not accidental. It is possible China intentionally tested the DF-41 to warn the U.S. to stop meddling in the South China Sea. The message is: Don't make us build 500 DF-41 ICBMs and place 5,000 American cities and towns at risk.

Reference: http://freebeacon.com/manchu-missile-launch/

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Martian2 said:


> *Dead Silence meets Chinese 10-MIRV-capable DF-41 ICBM test on July 24, 2012*
> 
> The most interesting responses to China's 10-MIRV-capable DF-41 ICBM test on July 24, 2012:
> 
> 1. "A Pentagon spokeswoman declined to comment on the missile test." The Pentagon does not discuss China's DF-41 ICBM test, 5,000km Underground Great Wall, JL-2 SLBM tests, or DF-21D "carrier killer" ASBM tests.
> 
> In other words, the Pentagon is useless to us for current information on the latest developments of Chinese military hardware.
> 
> 2. All of the major American newspapers ignore the 10-MIRV-capable DF-41 ICBM test.
> 
> There is serious denial among the American media. China is transforming into a full-fledged thermonuclear power and the Western media pretend it's not happening.
> 
> I have to wonder if the timing of the DF-41 test is not accidental. It is possible China intentionally tested the DF-41 to warn the U.S. to stop meddling in the South China Sea. The message is: Don't make us build 500 DF-41 ICBMs and place 5,000 American cities and towns at risk.
> 
> Reference: http://freebeacon.com/manchu-missile-launch/



China's ICBM/SLBM will be tested periodically to ensure its reliability, just like Trident II SLBM has been tested in every year.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

*The South China Sea's Gathering Storm*
August 19, 2012, 5:53 p.m. ET
By JAMES WEBB

Since World War II, despite the costly flare-ups in Korea and Vietnam, the United States has proved to be the essential guarantor of stability in the Asian-Pacific region, even as the power cycle shifted from Japan to the Soviet Union and most recently to China. The benefits of our involvement are one of the great success stories of American and Asian history, providing the so-called second tier countries in the region the opportunity to grow economically and to mature politically.

As the region has grown more prosperous, the sovereignty issues have become more fierce. Over the past two years Japan and China have openly clashed in the Senkaku Islands, east of Taiwan and west of Okinawa, whose administration is internationally recognized to be under Japanese control. Russia and South Korea have reasserted sovereignty claims against Japan in northern waters. China and Vietnam both claim sovereignty over the Paracel Islands. China, Vietnam, the Philippines, Brunei and Malaysia all claim sovereignty over the Spratly Islands, the site of continuing confrontations between China and the Philippines.

Such disputes involve not only historical pride but also such vital matters as commercial transit, fishing rights, and potentially lucrative mineral leases in the seas that surround the thousands of miles of archipelagos. Nowhere is this growing tension clearer than in the increasingly hostile disputes in the South China Sea.

On June 21, China's State Council approved the establishment of a new national prefecture which it named Sansha, with its headquarters on Woody Island in the Paracel Islands. Called Yongxing by the Chinese, Woody Island has no indigenous population and no natural water supply, but it does sport a military-capable runway, a post office, a bank, a grocery store and a hospital.

The Paracels are more than 200 miles southeast of Hainan, mainland China's southernmost territory, and due east of Vietnam's central coast. Vietnam adamantly claims sovereignty over the island group, the site of a battle in 1974 when China attacked the Paracels in order to oust soldiers of the former South Vietnamese regime.

The potential conflicts stemming from the creation of this new Chinese prefecture extend well beyond the Paracels. Over the last six weeks the Chinese have further proclaimed that the jurisdiction of Sansha includes not just the Paracel Islands but virtually the entire South China Sea, connecting a series of Chinese territorial claims under one administrative rubric. According to China's official news agency Xinhua, the new prefecture "administers over 200 islets" and "2 million square kilometers of water." To buttress this annexation, 45 legislators have been appointed to govern the roughly 1,000 people on these islands, along with a 15-member Standing Committee, plus a mayor and a vice mayor.

These political acts have been matched by military and economic expansion. On July 22, China's Central Military Commission announced that it would deploy a garrison of soldiers to guard the islands in the area. On July 31, it announced a new policy of "regular combat-readiness patrols" in the South China Sea. And China has now begun offering oil exploration rights in locations recognized by the international community as within Vietnam's exclusive economic zone.

For all practical purposes China has unilaterally decided to annex an area that extends eastward from the East Asian mainland as far as the Philippines, and nearly as far south as the Strait of Malacca. China's new "prefecture" is nearly twice as large as the combined land masses of Vietnam, South Korea, Japan and the Philippines. Its "legislators" will directly report to the central government.

American reaction has been muted. The State Department waited until Aug. 3 before expressing official concern over China's "upgrading of its administrative level . . . and establishment of a new military garrison" in the disputed areas. The statement was carefully couched within the context of long-standing policies calling for the resolution of sovereignty issues in accordance with international law and without the use of military force.

Even so, the Chinese government responded angrily, warning that State Department officials had "confounded right and wrong, and sent a seriously wrong message." The People's Daily, a quasi-official publication, accused the U.S. of "fanning the flames and provoking division, deliberately creating antagonism with China." Its overseas edition said it was time for the U.S. to "shut up."

In truth, American vacillations have for years emboldened China. U.S. policy with respect to sovereignty issues in Asian-Pacific waters has been that we take no sides, that such matters must be settled peacefully among the parties involved. Smaller, weaker countries have repeatedly called for greater international involvement.

China, meanwhile, has insisted that all such issues be resolved bilaterally, which means either never or only under its own terms. Due to China's growing power in the region, by taking no position Washington has by default become an enabler of China's ever more aggressive acts.

The U.S., China and all of East Asia have now reached an unavoidable moment of truth. Sovereignty disputes in which parties seek peaceful resolution are one thing; flagrant, belligerent acts are quite another. How this challenge is addressed will have implications not only for the South China Sea, but also for the stability of East Asia and for the future of U.S.-China relations.

History teaches us that when unilateral acts of aggression go unanswered, the bad news never gets better with age. Nowhere is this cycle more apparent than in the alternating power shifts in East Asia. As historian Barbara Tuchman noted in her biography of U.S. Army Gen. Joseph Stillwell, it was China's plea for U.S. and League of Nations support that went unanswered following Japan's 1931 invasion of Manchuria, a neglect that "brewed the acid of appeasement that . . . opened the decade of descent to war" in Asia and beyond.

While America's attention is distracted by the presidential campaign, all of East Asia is watching what the U.S. will do about Chinese actions in the South China Sea. They know a test when they see one. They are waiting to see whether America will live up to its uncomfortable but necessary role as the true guarantor of stability in East Asia, or whether the region will again be dominated by belligerence and intimidation.

The Chinese of 1931 understood this threat and lived through the consequences of an international community's failure to address it. The question is whether the China of 2012 truly wishes to resolve issues through acceptable international standards, and whether the America of 2012 has the will and the capacity to insist that this approach is the only path toward stability.

*Mr. Webb, a Democrat, is a U.S. senator from Virginia.*

James Webb: The South China Sea's Gathering Storm - WSJ.com


----------



## Fanling Monk

I can feel the arm merchant salivating for the joys of big contracts.


----------



## Sasquatch

Post all news or discussion on the SCS in the sticky thread, moving it there.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

by the logic of many Chinese members here in the forum Vietnam never has a chance in a war against China.


----------



## giant panda

The situation in the South China Sea remains generally stable. no war


----------



## ManilaBoy45

Latest SCS News Articles ...

Government beefs up defense of Taiping in South China Sea - The China Post

US warns of divisive diplomacy in South China Sea | WashingtonExaminer.com

'Sea grab' sparks tensions in South China Sea - Worldnews.com

http://www.alaskadispatch.com/article/what-should-us-do-south-china-sea

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444184704577587483914661256.html

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## p3avi8tor69

notte said:


> Martian is ready to sacrifice himself to kill some of his nation enemy like you and bring glory to his nation.



Well the armchair general is I think American, I believe of Asian descent and I remember he mentioned he has a brother who is a US Army ranger and he even said he will fight Russian commies.

I could be wrong but that's how I remember it.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

The video shows a recent trip on a (vietnamese made) vessel to Spratly islands. Some overseas Vietnamese are among the "tourists". Sorry all in Vietnamese, but you may get an idea when looking the video.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ViXuyen

Martian2 said:


> However, Taiwan can crush both the Vietnamese and Filipino navies with little effort.
> 
> Taiwan's air force has 327 modern fourth-generation fighters (e.g. F-16s, Mirage 2000s, and indigenous FCK-1s). In comparison, Vietnam only has 39 and the Philippines has ZERO fourth-generation fighters.
> 
> Taiwan is more like a terrier. We're big enough to matter and too much to handle for Third World non-industrialized countries like Vietnam and the Philippines.
> 
> Taiwan also builds its own Hsiung Feng 3 supersonic missiles. Can you Third World Vietnamese and Filipinos make the same claim?
> 
> References:
> 
> Republic of China Air Force
> 
> Hsiung Feng 3
> 
> ----------
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taiwan's FCK-1 (Fighter Ching Kuo)


If Taiwan truly has 327 4th generation fighters that can fire A2A missile of at least 100 km then they are more than a match for the PLA's 600 fighters. The fact that Taiwan constantly asking for more F-16 is a clear indication that out of those 327 fighters, very small numbers are functional enough to launch A2A missiles; Taiwan is just blufing about their number of functional aircrafts. I'll be generous and give out of those 327 fighters, only 30 or so are capable enough for launching long ranged missiles. 

One Vietnamese Kilo-submarine (received in 2013) can easily devastate 2 ancient submarines of Taiwan and their Lafayete frigates with ease.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Abdi-Karim Elmi

Viet said:


> @Martian2:
> 
> 1 unit of Type 054 frigate costs about $US 250 million
> 1 unit of SS-N-25 anti-ship missile costs about $US 0,5 million
> 
> Let take 2 missiles on 1 warship, so that would cost us about $ US 1 million. That would be a huge loss for the Chinese if they dare to send these costly warships into the SCS war zone.
> 
> I am not peaceful if it comes to a worst case.


Not really. It will get detected by ASEA first. Then the Missile will be tacked and gets blocked by EWS and if that fails it will get intercepted by H-9 ASM/AAM. Remember Yakhont missiles are Ramjets like Projectiles. It need Oxygen suction. If the missile passes though this tier of defense then the the F-2000 Missile comes to place. The F-2000 is like PAC-3, its can intercept missiles at close range. If it fails, then another tier of defense comes into place, which is Radar blinding, Flares and the last ditch attempt which is CIWS guns which has radar guidance rather than obtical

The Type 052D is designed for Missile defense. OMG it main propose was fleet protection from Missiles not Anti-shipping like other combat vessels. It's like the argies saying they can sink a UK Type 45 with a new Exocet and Harpoon block 2.


----------



## applesauce

5Star said:


> If Taiwan truly has 327 4th generation fighters that can fire A2A missile of at least 100 km then they are more than a match for the PLA's 600 fighters. The fact that Taiwan constantly asking for more F-16 is a clear indication that out of those 327 fighters, very small numbers are functional enough to launch A2A missiles; Taiwan is just blufing about their number of functional aircrafts. I'll be generous and give out of those 327 fighters, only 30 or so are capable enough for launching long ranged missiles.
> 
> One Vietnamese Kilo-submarine (received in 2013) can easily devastate 2 ancient submarines of Taiwan and their Lafayete frigates with ease.



not very smart are you?
not all 4th gens are made equal, early f-16 (a/b) which Taiwan has is not going to do too well against say a newer j-10(and of course the B model) or j-11b (especially since PRC has more fighters) and might as well be a fish in a bucket for the up coming j-20(and j-21 if real), not to mention PRC sam systems can cover all of western taiwan and with the new ships like 052c and D, all of eastern taiwan as well. but they are more than a match for vietnams 3 dozen or so fighters.

as for ur upcoming order of kilos, their not a new threat, ROC has been facing PLAN subs(including, surprise, the kilo subs) for decades and that's a primary reason for those dozen P3C's they ordered from the US. their 2 subs are crap, yes, but those lafayete class frigates are configured for ASW work, they would have a hard time fighting off a large plan naval assault but against vietnam? they stand a pretty good chance of feeding Vietnamese ships to the fishes.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ViXuyen

applesauce said:


> not very smart are you?
> not all 4th gens are made equal, early f-16 (a/b) which Taiwan has is not going to do too well against say a newer j-10(and of course the B model) or j-11b (especially since PRC has more fighters) and might as well be a fish in a bucket for the up coming j-20(and j-21 if real), not to mention PRC sam systems can cover all of western taiwan and with the new ships like 052c and D, all of eastern taiwan as well. but they are more than a match for vietnams 3 dozen or so fighters.
> 
> as for ur upcoming order of kilos, their not a new threat, ROC has been facing PLAN subs(including, surprise, the kilo subs) for decades and that's a primary reason for those dozen P3C's they ordered from the US. their 2 subs are crap, yes, but those lafayete class frigates are configured for ASW work, they would have a hard time fighting off a large plan naval assault but against vietnam? they stand a pretty good chance of feeding Vietnamese ships to the fishes.


Hello, Taiwan has been under "sanction" for years by weapon suppliers so its really stupid to believe that most of Taiwan's 327 fighters are even functional enough to fly and even launch A2A missiles beyond 100 km; that's why Taiwan constantly wants more new fighters despite having 327fighters and 700 Patriot missiles. In another words, Taiwan is just bluffing about their air force and its functional numbers.

Flying P3C for ASW, sure you can if you even have the luxury of sparing some fighters to escort them but the current state of Taiwan airforce will not permit it to do so. Vietnam's 36 Flankers are more than enough to devastate Taiwan's airforce and surface combatants with our capabilities to launch long ranged missiles like the R-27, R-77, and the 300-km Yakhont while the Kilo-sub is capable to firing 290-km Club-S missiles and God knows how many of this missile we have produced

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## applesauce

5Star said:


> Hello, Taiwan has been under "sanction" for years by weapon suppliers so its really stupid to believe that most of Taiwan's 327 fighters are even functional enough to fly and even launch A2A missiles beyond 100 km; that's why Taiwan constantly wants more new fighters despite having 327fighters and 700 Patriot missiles. In another words, Taiwan is just bluffing about their air force and its functional numbers.
> 
> Flying P3C for ASW, sure you can if you even have the luxury of sparing some fighters to escort them but the current state of Taiwan airforce will not permit it to do so. Vietnam's 36 Flankers are more than enough to devastate Taiwan's airforce and surface combatants with our capabilities to launch long ranged missiles like the R-27, R-77, and the 300-km Yakhont while the Kilo-sub is capable to firing 290-km Club-S missiles and God knows how many of this missile we have produced



thats just a flat out lie, taiwan has been supplied by the us for years, it is only the big ticket items that are not sold recently, but spare parts and small arms continue to be sold. and i already explained why they want new planes and stuff, its because they are out matched against the pla(in both tech and numbers), but they can outgun vietnam any day of the week.

the p3c will be vulnerable against the plan-plaaf but against vietnam, ROC can certainly send a dozen or 2 fighters to escort them and if this ever comes to pass you can bet your bottom dollar that PRC will be happy to stand aside and will do everything they can to lessen the pressure so that ROC can send out these assets without worrying about its western boarder with the PRC.

and again you are presenting threats that the ROC is very familiar with, the PRC has been operating the su-27/30 and the kilo subs for many years now, you bring no new threats to the table. and while you do have the yakhont, the version you have is land base only meaning they are useless in any conflict that is more than 300 km from vietnam and any naval engagment will almost certainly be a lot futher away than that.

mean while, what answers will vietnam have against ROC's sm2 missiles(numbering in the hundreds), tomahawks, HFIII missiles, P3c's, f-16s?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## faithfulguy

5Star said:


> Hello, Taiwan has been under "sanction" for years by weapon suppliers so its really stupid to believe that most of Taiwan's 327 fighters are even functional enough to fly and even launch A2A missiles beyond 100 km; that's why Taiwan constantly wants more new fighters despite having 327fighters and 700 Patriot missiles. In another words, Taiwan is just bluffing about their air force and its functional numbers.
> 
> Flying P3C for ASW, sure you can if you even have the luxury of sparing some fighters to escort them but the current state of Taiwan airforce will not permit it to do so. Vietnam's 36 Flankers are more than enough to devastate Taiwan's airforce and surface combatants with our capabilities to launch long ranged missiles like the R-27, R-77, and the 300-km Yakhont while the Kilo-sub is capable to firing 290-km Club-S missiles and God knows how many of this missile we have produced



Its so idiotic that you Vietcong now focus on Taiwanese controlled islands when China is threatening you. Guess what, in a naval conflict between Taiwan and Vietcong, Taiwan would have the upper hand. All you do is name dropping some Russian supplied weapons without discussing how these weapons would be used. You also dismiss Taiwan's aircraft preparedness by coming up with assumptions you cannot back up.

In any given day, Taiwan will win a naval engagement. Its navy will send the "new" kilo down the ocean.


----------



## EastSea

faithfulguy said:


> Its so idiotic that you Vietcong now focus on Taiwanese controlled islands when China is threatening you. Guess what, in a naval conflict between Taiwan and Vietcong, Taiwan would have the upper hand. All you do is name dropping some Russian supplied weapons without discussing how these weapons would be used. You also dismiss Taiwan's aircraft preparedness by coming up with assumptions you cannot back up.
> 
> In any given day, Taiwan will win a naval engagement. Its navy will send the "new" kilo down the ocean.



Problems to us is Mainland China, not you Taiwanese.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NiceGuy

New school year for kids in Big Spratly island

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Viet

Abdi-Karim Elmi said:


> Not really. It will get detected by ASEA first. Then the Missile will be tacked and gets blocked by EWS and if that fails it will get intercepted by H-9 ASM/AAM. Remember Yakhont missiles are Ramjets like Projectiles. It need Oxygen suction. If the missile passes though this tier of defense then the the F-2000 Missile comes to place. The F-2000 is like PAC-3, its can intercept missiles at close range. If it fails, then another tier of defense comes into place, which is Radar blinding, Flares and the last ditch attempt which is CIWS guns which has radar guidance rather than obtical
> 
> The Type 052D is designed for Missile defense. OMG it main propose was fleet protection from Missiles not Anti-shipping like other combat vessels. It's like the argies saying they can sink a UK Type 45 with a new Exocet and Harpoon block 2.





I think employing tactics such as ambush or hit and run to surprise the enemy are the best choice. The closer we come the less time they have to response.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## james5

China's latest town is a small and distant isle in the Southern Chinese suppliers Sea, hardly large enough to coordinator just one airstrip.


----------



## Viet

*No Movement on Major Disputes as Clinton Meets With Chinese Leaders*
By STEVEN LEE MYERS and JANE PERLEZ
Published: September 5, 2012 





_President Hu Jintao of China with Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton in Beijing on Wednesday. _

BEIJING &#8212;* The United States and China clashed openly on Wednesday over two of the most contentious issues riling their relationship, the violence in Syria and growing tensions over territorial disputes in the South China Sea. *

After hours of meetings with other top leaders that began Tuesday night and continued Wednesday, Secretary of State Hillary Rodham *Clinton failed to narrow the gaps over international crises involving Iran and North Korea and the competition for dominance in the Asia-Pacific region.* China also rebuffed Mrs. Clinton&#8217;s appeals to soften its support for the government of President Bashar al-Assad of Syria. Adding to the bumps on what is likely to be Mrs. Clinton&#8217;s last visit to China as secretary of state, one of her most important appointments, a session with Vice President Xi Jinping, the likely next leader of China, was canceled.

Most important, the Chinese leadership showed no signs of buckling after months of efforts by Mrs. Clinton and her senior aides to persuade the country to be more flexible on maritime disputes in the South China Sea.

&#8220;China has sovereignty over the islands of the South China Sea and the adjacent waters,&#8221; the foreign minister, Yang Jiechi, declared flatly during a lengthy appearance with Mrs. Clinton in the Great Hall of the People on Tiananmen Square. &#8220;There is plentiful historical and jurisprudential evidence for that.&#8221;

When asked about the deepening of American military engagement in Australia and the Philippines, Mr. Yang pointedly added that the United States should reconsider its own strategy in Asia in light of &#8220;the trends of our current era and the general wish of countries in the region.&#8221; 

Mrs. Clinton and her senior aides did not come to Beijing with high expectations of resolving major differences, given China&#8217;s once-in-a-decade leadership transition beginning this fall. The highly scripted transition has been jolted by a political scandal that led to the downfall of a major party official, Bo Xilai, that revealed some of the maneuvering among the political elite. As Mrs. Clinton was wrapping up her trip, a central figure in the scandal, Wang Lijun, was charged with &#8220;bending the law for selfish ends, defection, abuse of power and bribetaking,&#8221; according to the official Xinhua news agency.

American officials said that Mrs. Clinton was not told of the looming charges against Mr. Wang during her talks on Tuesday and Wednesday, but, they said, the United States had expected that Mr. Wang would be charged at some point amid the churning internal maneuvering ahead of the transition.

At the news conference with Mr. Yang, there was little effort to paper over the two countries&#8217; differences on Syria and the territorial disputes in the South China Sea. In July, China established a military garrison and a legislative assembly on the tiny Paracel Islands, which Vietnam also claims, exacerbating the tensions there.

Mrs. Clinton, who is in the middle of a 10-day trip through Asia, has repeatedly called on China to discuss with the Association of Southeast Asian Nations a code of conduct to address disputes in the region. The Chinese have firmly resisted that idea, with Mr. Yang insisting on direct negotiations with individual countries. 

The State Department has said that China would be more likely to get its way by bargaining with individual nations than with the entire regional bloc.

In the last few months, for example, China has effectively blocked the Philippines, an ally of the United States, from gaining access to the Scarborough Shoal, known as Huangyan Island by China. The Chinese placed a rope across the entrance to the island lagoon and have kept patrol boats in the adjacent waters.

After days of hostile articles in the official Chinese news media about American interference in the region, Mr. Yang said any settlement over the South China Sea disputes should only involve those &#8220;directly concerned,&#8221; in other words, not the United States.

The foreign minister repeated China&#8217;s oft-stated policy that China would assure &#8220;the freedom and safety of navigation in the South China Sea.&#8221;

On the conflict in Syria, Mrs. Clinton reiterated American criticism of China&#8217;s veto, with Russia, of three United Nations Security Council resolutions intended to press Mr. Assad to end the violent crackdown in his country, which has claimed an estimated 20,000 lives and created a rising flood of more than 240,000 refugees, 100,000 in the last month.

&#8220;We believe that the situation in Syria is a threat to peace and stability in the entire region,&#8221; Mrs. Clinton said. &#8220;And the longer the conflict goes on, the greater the risk that it spills over borders and destabilizes neighboring countries.&#8221;

The foreign minister, Mr. Yang, countered that China opposed international interference in any other country&#8217;s internal affairs, though he expressed support for the peace proposal of the former United Nations envoy, Kofi Annan, which American and most other diplomats consider to be moot at this point. He suggested that China&#8217;s policy, not the United States&#8217;, would ultimately prove successful. &#8220;I think history will judge that China&#8217;s position on the Syrian question is a promotion of the appropriate handling and resolution&#8221; of the violence there, he said.

The Foreign Ministry said at its regular briefing that the cancellation of Mrs. Clinton&#8217;s meeting with Mr. Xi was a &#8220;normal adjustment of the itinerary.&#8221; Mr. Xi also canceled his scheduled meeting Wednesday with Singapore&#8217;s prime minister, Lee Hsien Loong. &#8220;We have reached consensus with the United States and Singapore&#8221; on the cancellations, the Foreign Ministry spokesman, Hong Lei, said. 

Diplomats in Beijing said they were told that Mr. Xi had hurt his back and said there was no reason not to believe that explanation, even though there was speculation about whether the cancellation of the meeting with Mrs. Clinton was connected to the once-in-a-decade transition, or whether it was intended as a snub.

Instead of Mr. Xi, Mrs. Clinton met with the vice premier, Li Keqiang, who is expected to become the premier early next year. Earlier Wednesday, she met with President Hu Jintao, whose term ends next year, at the Great Hall of the People. Despite the differences, Mrs. Clinton and her aides appeared satisfied with the Obama administration&#8217;s efforts to build greater openness between the two countries by creating regular consultations that allow them to endure disagreements like those on display here. She noted that President Obama and Mr. Hu have met 12 times, while she has visited Beijing five times, joking at one point that she had lost count. 

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/06/w...-clinton-meets-with-chinese-leaders.html?_r=1

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

*China's Hu urges Asia-Pacific nations to ensure peace*
_Posted: 08 September 2012 0906 hrs | Channel NewsAsia - Latest News, Singapore, Asia, World and Business News - channelnewsasia.com _





_Chinese President Hu Jintao delivers his address during the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) CEO summit in Vladivostok on September 8, 2012. (AFP/Saeed Khan)
_
VLADIVOSTOK, Russia: Chinese President *Hu Jintao* on Saturday urged all Asia-Pacific nations to help ensure peace in the region, amid a series of territorial rows that have inflamed nationalist tensions.

"To maintain peace and stability as well as the sound momentum of economic growth in the Asia-Pacific, it is in the interests of all countries in the region, it is our shared responsibility," Hu told a regional forum in Russia.

The Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) bloc's annual gathering of leaders, held this year in the Russian Pacific port of Vladivostok, was due to officially open later Saturday.

The talks, which are meant to focus on opening up trade within the 21-member group, are this year being held under the cloud of a series of territorial disputes, involving several members, including China.

Hu's call for cooler heads, at a business forum ahead of the leaders' summit, came a day after he raised South China Sea disputes in separate talks with President *Truong Tan Sang* of Vietnam and Brunei's Sultan Hassanal Bolkiah.

China claims nearly all of the South China Sea as its own. But Vietnam, Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines and Taiwan also have overlapping claims, and the disputes have for decades made the sea a potential military flashpoint.

Vietnam and the *Philippines *have accused China of ramping up a campaign of intimidation recently to enforce its claims to the South China Sea, causing a rapid decline in diplomatic relations.

In 1974, 53 Vietnamese military personnel were killed when Vietnam lost a battle for control of the Paracel Islands in the South China Sea.

In 1988, another 70 Vietnamese soldiers died when the two nations battled for control of a reef in another archipelago in the sea.

Chinese state media said Hu told Sang on Friday that Beijing and Hanoi should take a step back and work together to resolve their row peacefully.

*"There have been some difficulties with China-Vietnam relations because of the dispute in the South China Sea. This is what we don't want to see," the China Daily quoted Hu as telling Sang.*

"Hu said the two sides should keep cool-headed and restrained and avoid taking any unilateral measure that will magnify, complicate or internationalise the dispute, to prevent the issue from affecting East Asian cooperation and regional stability," it added.

He told the Sultan of Brunei the issue was "a chronic headache that should be resolved properly through dialogue and negotiations", the report said.

*The United States* has angered China by lobbying hard for a code of conduct among nations involved and insisting that freedom of navigation in the strategic sea was in its interest.

Meanwhile, China has become embroiled in an arguably even more hostile row with *Japan*, another APEC member, over competing claims to islands in the East China Sea.

China-Japan tensions have risen in recent months, spiking in the past week after Japanese media, citing government sources, said Tokyo had agreed to buy a contested group of islands in the sea from their Japanese landowners.

China responded by saying it would take all *"necessary measures"* to defend its claims to the Diaoyu islands, known in Japanese as the Senkaku chain.

*Japanese Prime Minister Yoshihiko Noda said on Friday he would not hold a customary, official meeting with Hu at APEC this weekend because of the dispute*, although he would consider informal talks.
China's Hu urges Asia-Pacific nations to ensure peace - Channel NewsAsia


----------



## Viet

all necessary measures? Sounds to me like a threat!
Will China risk a war with Japan?


----------



## ahfatzia

Viet said:


> all necessary measures? Sounds to me like a threat!
> Will China risk a war with Japan?




Yeah it's a threat but back up by muscle......


*China's defense ministry voices protest to Japan over Diaoyu Islands*

The armed forces of China are completely opposed to the Japanese government's move to "purchase" the Diaoyu Island and two of its adjacent islands, Chinese Defense Ministry Spokesman Geng Yansheng said Tuesday.

Geng issued a statement on the Japanese government's implementation of so-called "nationalization" of the Diaoyu Islands.

Despite strong opposition from the Chinese side, the Japanese government blatantly announced on Sept. 10 to "purchase" the Diaoyu Island and its affiliated Nan Xiaodao and Bei Xiaodao. This act is a severe infringment of Chinese territorial sovereignty, Geng said.

Geng said the Diaoyu Island and its affiliated islands are China's inherent territory. China has sufficient historical and jurisprudential evidence surrounding this.

Geng said the Japanese government's action and the so-called "island purchase" was totally illegal and invalid.

In the statement, Geng said since the start of the year, the Japanese government has endorsed right wing forces to clamor for the "island purchase" and even move in to "purchasing the islands" by itself. He said this severely harmed the general situation of the development in China-Japan relations.

Geng said in recent years, Japan has expanded armament under various excuses, frequently incurred tension in regional situations and repeatedly stirred up troubles on the issue of the Diaoyu islands. Such moves are worthy of high vigilance by its Asian neighbors and the international community.

*"The Chinese government and armed forces stand firm and are unshakeable in its determination and will safeguard sovereignty over the nation's territories," Geng said.

"We are watching closely the evolution of the situation and reserve the right to take reciprocal measures," Geng said. *

China's defense ministry voices protest to Japan over Diaoyu Islands - Globaltimes.cn

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

I would say this is a very strong and clear message toward Japan. I can´t remmeber that China voices a similar message against Vietnam. The situation is really escalating a bit.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## applesauce

Viet said:


> I would say this is a very strong and clear message toward Japan. I can´t remmeber that China voices a similar message against Vietnam. The situation is really escalating a bit.



yea last time the use of language approached this was right before the korean war, 1962, and sino-vietnam war

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## james5

China take the action to the southern china sea.china says that this sea is the under the border of china so no one can take any action in this sea region.


----------



## EastSea

james5 said:


> China take the action to the southern china sea.china says that this sea is the under the border of china so no one can take any action in this sea region.



we did and do what is necessary to defend our country sovereignty in our sea.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zero_wing

LvpAK said:


> before 1970,Philippean never mark Spratly Islands as their's on its official maps. now you say"China is win". LOL, Philippean still take 10 Islands in south china sea.
> In my eyes, you lost 10 coins,now you take back a half coin,the huangyan, and you say you win? Though I don't think nine line is fair.but the SPratly Islands no doubt is belong to china.



Sure whatever we have them in our maps since 1800s sir look at our old Spanish maps or is it not available in commie land?



3starsandasun said:


> Who's Philippean?
> 
> Our GDP may not be as high as the arrogant Chinese but our intelligence is not as low as theirs. Our elementary students already know that the people living in France are not called Francean and those in Japan as Japanian.
> 
> You have a great military to brag about but atleast try not to show how little educated you are compared to those who doesnt even have a decent military to defend its own coasts.



Pare hayaan no na yung mga yan arrogante lang sila wala respeto sa ibang tao ganun ng mga hayop na yan

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## 474474

Thomas said:


> Actually China has done the US a great favor. It's actions have opened the door for a bigger US presence in the region and the renewed the use of military bases in the Phillipines. Thank you China!
> 
> Now start actually attacking our allies in the region instead chest thumping from planting flags on deserted atols with no defenders. And you might find out how paper tiger the US is. Remember to Obama will most likely be out of office in about 7 months.


US has no allies, even people from your closest nato countries detest US, that much is apparent from the internet as well as living in NATO countries



Zero_wing said:


> Sure whatever we have them in our maps since 1800s sir look at our old Spanish maps or is it not available in commie land?
> 
> 
> 
> Pare hayaan no na yung mga yan arrogante lang sila wala respeto sa ibang tao ganun ng mga hayop na yan


Kobe Bryant is G.A.Y.
Now that's gonna agitate filipines more than any territorial dispute, bakala ka

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zero_wing

474474 said:


> US has no allies, even people from your closest nato countries detest US, that much is apparent from the internet as well as living in NATO countries
> 
> 
> Kobe Bryant is G.A.Y.
> Now that's gonna agitate filipines more than any territorial dispute, bakala ka



Sir points to understand 

one: its Filipino get it right i respect you Pakistanis this is your forum so please sir GIVE ME THE SAME RESPECT THAT I AM SHOWING TO YOU!

two: its do you know what you just said or your just remember some random Filipino word you remember?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Echo_419

I think that regional players have to come togther sit on a table & talk rather than showing thier millitary power 
There is not a single doubt that china is the superior player in south china sea & just japan & usa have the guts & military power to counter them


----------



## Zero_wing

Echo_419 said:


> I think that regional players have to come togther sit on a table & talk rather than showing thier millitary power
> There is not a single doubt that china is the superior player in south china sea & just japan & usa have the guts & military power to counter them



one problem china wants everything !


----------



## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Thomas said:


> Actually China has done the US a great favor. It's actions have opened the door for a bigger US presence in the region and the renewed the use of military bases in the Phillipines. Thank you China!
> 
> Now start actually attacking our allies in the region instead chest thumping from planting flags on deserted atols with no defenders. And you might find out how paper tiger the US is. Remember to Obama will most likely be out of office in about 7 months.



I like this video clip Werewolf Vs. Dracula "*the only way to kill them it's to kill you...so be it*" said Van helsin. If China want to bring all American minions (or they call allies) into submisson...the only way is prepare the direct collision course with US...we should not let US use their minions to exhaust and weakening our military capability then let them walk in and claim victory....at the earlier stage of emminent war, US should be the first to be suffer...we will fullfill american dream as "American first" slogan.


----------



## Snomannen

Countries are tools for elite groups, anyone who foolishly gets himself into their business will get nothing but dirt.


----------



## ephone

It is far from over.

japs always want to invade China due to its limited resources.

it has tried for more than thousands of years and was defeated most of the times. However, it did have its success when China was at its weakest time when it was being invaded by numerous foreign vultures after opium wars. 

Of course, japs also took advantage of China civil war between the CCP and KMT before and during WWII. 

However, now China is now a united Country (almost, just with taiwan issue unresolved but soon) again, japs' chance is really way too diminished now. 

However, japs won't give up its appetite if not being crushed once again. 



SinoChallenger said:


> *U.S. Takes A Pass  For Now  On China Sea Disputes*
> 
> *The territorial disputes in the South China Seas are over, China has won*, and the U.S. couldnt care less. But thats not necessarily bad.
> 
> While arguments over who owns which reefs, rocks and lagoons in the South China Sea will likely drag on awhile, the U.S. is saving its powder for a more important fight: keeping vital shipping lanes free from potential interference.
> 
> *A months-long standoff over a remote reef system claimed by both China and the Philippines all but ended this weekend when the Obama administration signaled it would not intervene. That means Chinese patrol boats, which in April chased a Philippines warship from the Scarborough Shoal, will remain there as long they want. So, too, will Chinese fishing and commercial exploration ships.*
> 
> Thats bad news for the neighbors. China has claimed virtually all of the South China Sea as its own, along with potentially huge deposits of oil, gas and other natural resources. The region includes the Spratly Islands, Scarborough Shoal and other scattered islets and shallows variously claimed by Vietnam, Malaysia, Taiwan, Indonesia and Brunei. If the U.S. wont wade in on behalf of the Philippines, with which it shares a 60-year-old mutual defense treaty, then it sure wont do so for anybody else. Without U.S. or other outside help, those countries will have little choice but to accept the Chinese claims, and cut whatever joint-development deals they can.
> 
> Yes, that could embolden China to make additional new demands (more on that later), but the bigger worry is whether China will use its growing air and sea power to threaten movement through the region. More than half the worlds commercial shipping passes through the South China Sea, including nearly all Mideast oil bound for Japan, South Korea, China and Southeast Asia. Just the threat of interrupting that flow could give China serious leverage in any dispute.
> 
> The U.S. is not going to send the 7th Fleet to resolve problems with fish or coral in the South China Sea, because that is not the vital interest of the United States, says Donald Weatherbee, fellow at the University of South Carolinas Walker Institute of International Studies. The vital American national interest is in freedom of navigation. (So far), China has done nothing to suggest that they are going to try to close off those waters to transit by vessels of the United States, Japan, Korea, or you name it. The minute the Chinese confronts us in that way, then its no longer a question of the Philippines or Indonesian national interest, it becomes a question of American national interests.
> 
> But while Obama wont referee competing territorial claims (urging a peaceful, diplomatic resolution  for what thats worth), the Scarborough Shoal drama shows that such disputes wont be cost-free for China. After meeting with Philippines President Benigno Aquino III in Washington on Friday, Obama said the U.S. will continue to build up its forces in the region, and will help allies like the Philippines do the same.
> 
> So far, the U.S. and Philippines have agreed to open the former Clark Air Base and Subic Bay naval facilities for U.S. troop rotations, port visits and training exercises; to donate two more retired U.S. Coast Guard cutters to the Philippines navy; and send radar and ocean-surveillance equipment to keep an eye on you-know-who. Although Clark and Subic were closed in the early 90s, the U.S. has kept about 600 Special Forces soldiers at a Philippines army base in the southern part of the country for nearly a decade.
> 
> All this is part of the re-balancing of U.S. forces in the region. Marines are moving to Australia. The U.S. and Japan are planning joint training bases in the Marianas. Spanking-new littoral combat ships will operate out of Singapore. The U.S. insists this is unrelated to China, but of course its completely related.
> 
> China is going to view this as another example of containment, no matter what the U.S. calls it, says Jeffrey Hornung, an associate professor at the Asia-Pacific Center for Security Studies in Honolulu.
> 
> Meanwhile, China hasnt made any friends with its handling of the Scarborough dispute. In addition to charging in with armed patrol boats and surveillance planes, it called off the visits of thousands of Chinese tourists to the Philippines, blocked imports of tens of millions of dollars of Philippines bananas, and even cancelled the highly-anticipated visit of Chinas national basketball team (in poor but basketball-mad Philippines, its hard to know which was the harsher response).
> 
> The dispute is sure to strengthen the hand of hawks in nearby Japan, which has a China problem in its own waters. China has made strident claims to ownership of the Senkaku Islands, which it calls the Daioyu islands, ever since a Chinese fishing was seized near the islands after colliding with a Japanese coast guard cutter in 2010. Japan released the ship and crew after China responded by embargoing shipments of rare earth materials, cancelling tourist trips to Japan and arresting a handful of Japanese businessmen on spying charges. (Japan later agreed to give 10 patrol ships to the Philippines, but says thats unrelated.)
> 
> For its part, China has played down the dispute with Japan in recent months, and has promised that it wont interfere with anyones navigation rights in the South China Sea. And it would seem foolish even to try. For all its double-digit defense spending, China is still many years away from being able to challenge U.S. military power, and no doubt knows that. Nor would it seem to have much to gain; Chinas economy is thoroughly dependent on sea-going trade and cutting off any shipping would mean cutting off its own, as well.
> 
> *So the U.S. is telling China it can take all the fish and oil it can grab*  but dont try to stop any ships along the way.
> 
> U.S. Takes A Pass  For Now  On China Sea Disputes | Battleland | TIME.com
> 
> 
> *It looks like China has taught USA a lesson about peaceful behavior*
> 
> 
> 
> *Avoiding a U.S.-China War*
> 
> Relations between the United States and China are on a course that may one day lead to war.
> 
> This month, Defense Secretary Leon Panetta announced that by 2020, 60 percent of the U.S. Navy will be deployed in the Pacific. Last November, in Australia, President Obama announced the establishment of a U.S. military base in that country, and threw down an ideological gauntlet to China with his statement that the United States will continue to speak candidly to Beijing about the importance of upholding international norms and respecting the universal human rights of the Chinese people.
> 
> The dangers inherent in present developments in American, Chinese and regional policies are set out in The China Choice: Why America Should Share Power, an important forthcoming book by the Australian international affairs expert Hugh White. As he writes, Washington and Beijing are already sliding toward rivalry by default. To escape this, White makes a strong argument for a concert of powers in Asia, as the best  and perhaps only  way that this looming confrontation can be avoided. The economic basis of such a U.S.-China agreement is indeed already in place.
> 
> The danger of conflict does not stem from a Chinese desire for global leadership. Outside East Asia, Beijing is sticking to a very cautious policy, centered on commercial advantage without military components, in part because Chinese leaders realize that it would take decades and colossal naval expenditure to allow them to mount a global challenge to the United States, and that even then they would almost certainly fail.
> 
> In East Asia, things are very different. *For most of its history, China has dominated the region. When it becomes the largest economy on earth, it will certainly seek to do so. While China cannot build up naval forces to challenge the United States in distant oceans, it would be very surprising if in future it will not be able to generate missile and air forces sufficient to deny the U.S. Navy access to the seas around China. *Moreover, China is engaged in territorial disputes with other states in the region over island groups  disputes in which Chinese popular nationalist sentiments have become heavily engaged.
> 
> With communism dead, the Chinese administration has relied very heavily  and successfully  on nationalism as an ideological support for its rule. The problem is that if clashes erupt over these islands, Beijing may find itself in a position where it cannot compromise without severe damage to its domestic legitimacy  very much the position of the European great powers in 1914.
> 
> In these disputes, Chinese nationalism collides with other nationalisms  particularly that of Vietnam, which embodies strong historical resentments. The hostility to China of Vietnam and most of the other regional states is at once Americas greatest asset and greatest danger. It means that most of Chinas neighbors want the United States to remain militarily present in the region. As White argues, even if the United States were to withdraw, it is highly unlikely that these countries would submit meekly to Chinese hegemony.
> 
> But if the United States were to commit itself to a military alliance with these countries against China, Washington would risk embroiling America in their territorial disputes. In the event of a military clash between Vietnam and China, Washington would be faced with the choice of either holding aloof and seeing its credibility as an ally destroyed, or fighting China.
> 
> Neither the United States nor China would win the resulting war outright, but they would certainly inflict catastrophic damage on each other and on the world economy. If the conflict escalated into a nuclear exchange, modern civilization would be wrecked. Even a prolonged period of military and strategic rivalry with an economically mighty China will gravely weaken Americas global position. Indeed, U.S. overstretch is already apparent  for example in Washingtons neglect of the crumbling states of Central America.
> 
> To avoid this, *Whites suggested East Asian order would establish red lines that the United States and China would both agree not to cross  most notably a guarantee not to use force without the others permission, or in clear self-defense. Most sensitively of all, while China would have to renounce the use of force against Taiwan, Washington would most probably have to publicly commit itself to the reunification of Taiwan with China.
> 
> Equally important, China would have to acknowledge the legitimacy of the U.S. presence in East Asia, since this is desired by other East Asian states, and the United States would have to acknowledge the legitimacy of Chinas existing political order, since it has brought economic breakthrough and greatly enhanced real freedoms to the people of China.* Under such a concert, U.S. statements like those of President Obama in support of Chinas democratization would have to be jettisoned.
> 
> As White argues, such a concert of power between the United States, China and regional states would be so difficult to arrange that it would hardly be worth considering if the alternatives were not so bad. But as his book brings out with chilling force, the alternatives may well be catastrophic.
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/13/opinion/avoiding-a-us-china-war.html
> 
> 
> *Good, now we have "peace in our time."*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

ephone said:


> It is far from over.
> 
> japs always want to invade China due to its limited resources.
> 
> it has tried for more than thousands of years and was defeated most of the times. However, it did have its success when China was at its weakest time when it was being invaded by numerous foreign vultures after opium wars.
> 
> Of course, japs also took advantage of China civil war between the CCP and KMT before and during WWII.
> 
> However, now China is now a united Country (almost, just with taiwan issue unresolved but soon) again, japs' chance is really way too diminished now.
> 
> However, japs won't give up its appetite if not being crushed once again.



Full agree with you, Japaneses will never give up..not in 1000 years, if they're even willing to work with a country that had nuked them twice and use their own country as unsinkable carrier for US...proven that dignity or humiliation is not important (thick face + black heart) , what count for them is support US to achieve the ultimate objectifs as what Kissenger once said"

*"Japanese's dream->China-US Nukes exchange"....*if both got seriously got harmed that will make Japanese's day: they can avenge for been nuked and for China to resist them for Asia domination during WWII.


----------



## vk17

SinoChallenger said:


> June 11 is victory for China day. Thanks to our new Supreme Leader Xi Jinping, Beijing grew some balls and wielded the PLA like a mighty sword to decapitate our enemies.
> 
> There is enough oil and gas in the South China Sea to make every single Chinese as rich as Saudi or Brunei citizens! Now nobody can stop us from taking our spoils of war. Of course, we can share with our allies, but never with dirty nations like Vietnam and Philippines.



No offence!! I was just wondering what if Chinese don't find oil or gas there!! 

Supreme Leader Xi Jinping, Beijing will really get pissed off!!! 

I know its important geo-politically but still much a ado about nothing, 

putting all the trade relations including existence of SCO at stake!!


----------



## Zero_wing

474474 said:


> Sorry, it wasnt intentional, I don't know the right spelling. So i'll just say paray from now on. And two: actually I know a lot of words, study with many parays. Putangina, mahal kita, ako dito, di ko alom, susu, walang titi, babuay and a few more



So knowing a few words gave you the right to butcher my language? If you like to know my language buy some books about it because your filipino sucks dude and other things i dont recall doing anything against Pakistan? or saying anything about it i never even been to Pakistan so i make it a rule never to say anything about a country i never set foot on its stupid to do so but i been to Hong kong and the rest of nazi china with the exception of Macau meets some good people to but the rest inhuman but getting to my point i meet a lot your countrymen friendly people so why? you love the Chinese fine but i think you should think more than just type about a language you don't understand at all.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## applesauce

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> *"Japanese's dream->China-US Nukes exchange"..*


*

why would hey want that? i'm 100% sure if that happened japan would also be nuked several times. that said any all out war with japan must be held off for at least 15 years*


----------



## Zero_wing

applesauce said:


> why would hey want that? i'm 100% sure if that happened japan would also be nuked several times. that said any all out war with japan must be held off for at least 15 years



Yes typical mainlander thinking go to war with everybody like you guys can fight a global war by yourselves idiots

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## terranMarine

Zero_wing said:


> So knowing a few words gave you the right to butcher my language? If you like to know my language buy some books about it because your filipino sucks dude and other things i dont recall doing anything against Pakistan? or saying anything about it i never even been to Pakistan so i make it a rule never to say anything about a country i never set foot on its stupid to do so but i been to Hong kong and the rest of nazi china with the exception of Macau meets some good people to but the rest inhuman but getting to my point i meet a lot your countrymen friendly people so why? you love the Chinese fine but i think you should think more than just type about a language you don't understand at all.



Referring to Nazi China now eh? I think a mod should be working now.


----------



## Zero_wing

terranMarine said:


> Referring to Nazi China now eh? I think a mod should be working now.



A big yup on that sir


----------



## applesauce

Zero_wing said:


> Yes typical mainlander thinking go to war with everybody like you guys can fight a global war by yourselves idiots



you're not much better with your "nazi china" comments


----------



## Zero_wing

applesauce said:


> you're not much better with your "nazi china" comments



Sure whatever makes you happy


----------



## Filipino

Good god, can't we all just get along


----------



## Abhishek_

Filipino said:


> Good god, can't we all just get along


apparently not


----------



## Zero_wing

Abhishek_ said:


> apparently not



Amen to that



474474 said:


> US has no allies, even people from your closest nato countries detest US, that much is apparent from the internet as well as living in NATO countries
> 
> 
> Kobe Bryant is G.A.Y.
> Now that's gonna agitate filipines more than any territorial dispute, bakala ka



Huh agitate man other guy high here in the forum Jesus that hell is wrong with the world now some non mainlander is high on make believe opium with a little white dusk coke ewan ko sayo


----------



## Viet

*PM Dung: Vietnam treasures ties with China*
_Updated : 8:00 AM, 21/09/2012 | Voice of Vietnam_






*
Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung has reaffirmed Vietnam&#8217;s consistent, long-term and strategic policy of consolidating and strengthening the friendly and comprehensive cooperative ties with China.
*
PM Dung emphasised this while meeting with *Chinese Vice President Xi Jinping* on September 20 after he arrived in Nanning, the capital of China's Guangxi Zhuang autonomous region, to attend the 9th *ASEAN-China Expo *(CAEXPO) and *China-ASEAN Business-Investment Summit *(CABIS). 

Xi applauded Dung&#8217;s attendance at the events, which, he said, reflects Vietnamese Party and State&#8217;s determination to strengthen the comprehensive strategic cooperation partnership with China and its support for CAEXPO and CABIS, practically contributing to the China-ASEAN cooperation, he added. 

On the occasion of China&#8217;s 63rd National Day, the Vietnamese PM congratulated the Chinese Government and people on the great achievements they have made under the leadership of the Communist Party of China (CPC). He also wished the upcoming 18th National Congress of the CPC a great success. 

Dung said the 9th CAEXPO is a good chance for ASEAN countries and China to increase friendship exchanges and promote their strategic partnership. 

The two leaders agreed that the Vietnam-China friendship, fostered by the two countries&#8217; generations of leaders and people, is a valuable asset of the two Parties, States and peoples that should be inherited, preserved and developed. 

*Xi stressed that the Chinese Party, State and people attach great importance to the relations with Vietnam and are ready to deepen their comprehensive strategic cooperation partnership. *

The two leaders said strengthening political trust is of great importance to both countries in the current situation. 

They highly valued the outcomes of Party General Secretary Nguyen Phu Trong&#8217;s visit to China in October 2011, Vice President Xi Jinping&#8217;s visit to Vietnam in December 2011 and most recently, the meeting between Vietnamese President Truong Tan Sang and Chinese Party General Secretary and President Hu Jintao on the sidelines of the 20th Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) Summit in Vladivostok, Russia early this month. 

The two leaders reached a number of important common perceptions and specific measures to boost bilateral ties in the future, especially maintaining and increasing visits and meetings by the two countries&#8217; high-ranking leaders. 

*The two sides will boost the practical and mutually beneficial cooperation in all aspects, particularly in economics and trade; strengthen relations between ministries, agencies and localities, and people-to-people exchange activities; enhance cooperation in regional and international issues; and the friendship between the two peoples.* 

They also agreed to persistently maintain peace and stability in the East Sea, satisfactorily resolve every issue through peaceful negotiations starting from the strategic high of the two countries&#8217; relationship. 

*PM Dung stressed that the most important thing now is that the two sides seriously implement common perceptions of the two countries&#8217; high-ranking leaders and strictly abide by the agreement on basic principles guiding the settlement of sea-related issues, as well as satisfactorily resolve disputes and newly-emerging issues through peaceful negotiations, on the basis of international law, especially the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea, and in the spirit of the Declaration on Conduct of the Parties in the East Sea (DOC), towards a Code of Conduct in the East Sea (COC). *

On behalf of the Vietnamese Party, State and Government, PM Dung invited Xi to visit Vietnam after the 18th National Congress of the CPC concludes. 

The Chinese Vice President accepted the invitation with pleasure, saying that the maintenance of high-ranking visits and meetings plays an important role in continuously strengthening and consolidating the relations between the two Parties, States and peoples.

PM Dung: Vietnam treasures ties with China - PM Dung: Vietnam treasures ties with China - VOVNEWS.VN


----------



## Viet

I always wonder, how politicians perfectly master diplomatic flowers of speech...
Anyway as long as we talk there is no war.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## djsjs

Economic cooperation helps to realize economy take-off for both VN and Guangxi.


----------



## ahfatzia

*Taiwan to deploy cannons, mortars on Taiping ( Itu Aba) in South China Sea*


Taipei (The China Post/ANN) - Taiwan's Ministry of National Defence (MND) yesterday confirmed that it will complete the installation of a certain number of cannons and mortars on Taiping Island in the South China Sea next month in a move to enhance its military presence in the disputed seas amid the escalating conflict over the region.

A total of eight sets of 40mm autocannons and a certain number of 120mm mortars will be shipped to the island by the end of August, unidentified MND sources told the Chinese-language United Evening News yesterday.

The latest weapons are expected to replace the existing 106mm recoilless guns and the 81mm mortars currently used by Taiwan's Coast Guard Administration (CGA).

The latest installation will lead to extended range and enhanced lethality, military sources said.

The CGA has been responsible for defending Taiping since the Marines were withdrawn in 1999 to ease tensions with other claimants.

Also, the MND and the CGA could hold a regular live-fire drill at some time in August in Taiping. The drill could be open to media on the demand of lawmakers, the report said.

Meanwhile, ruling Kuomintang (KMT) Legislator Lin Yu-fang, who concurrently serves as convener of the Legislature's Foreign and National Defence Committee, told local media yesterday that he could lead a delegation for a tour of the island to inspect the latest installation.

Taiping is expected to see an enhanced military presence in the near future, Lin said.

Lin has previously called on the MND to consider deploying the Tien Chien I "Sky Sword" missiles on the island to beef up defensive capabilities. But the proposal was rejected by the ministry because the move could cause political controversy.

The autocannons and mortars are to be deployed after a legislative committee demanded this May that the MND should do so on Taiping Island and Dongsha Island within six months.

Six countries - Taiwan, China, Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei and the Philippines - all claim total or partial sovereignty over the South China Sea.

Taiwan controls the Dongsha Islands, the largest island group in the South China Sea, as well as Taiping Island.

Taiwan to deploy cannons, mortars on Taiping in South China Sea - Yahoo! News Philippines


I wonder what Niceguy has to say about this. Itu Aba is his favorite island and he always wants to attack it while China is busy elsewhere.


----------



## djsjs

how about start a new thread of introducing vietnamese, topics of works, education ,economy, life ,research......forget the political and territorial disputes temporarily?
we are waiting......


----------



## Viet

Interesting, the idea..I am thinking about it.


----------



## djsjs

Viet said:


> Interesting, the idea..I am thinking about it.


Do not let us wait too long.....is one year enongh?I have no more patience


i think vietnam members will selectively ignore my proposal !!!


----------



## Viet

djsjs said:


> Do not let us wait too long.....is one year enongh?I have no more patience
> 
> i think vietnam members will selectively ignore my proposal !!!




I am a bit skeptical to open such a thread. Firstly do not want to waste other people´s time and disc space, and secondly there is not much really interesting thing about VN , it is still poor, backward, and history full of devasting wars...all bad stuffs.

Would like to know if my countrymen support the idea?


----------



## EastSea

applesauce said:


> yea last time the use of language approached this was right before the korean war, 1962, and sino-vietnam war




1962 was Sino-India war.
1979 China attacked Vietnam.


----------



## EastSea

applesauce said:


> yea last time the use of language approached this was right before the korean war, 1962, and sino-vietnam war




1962 was Sino-India war.
1979 China attacked Vietnam.


----------



## Viet

*China, Vietnam discuss Tonkin Gulf issue*
_Updated : 6:53 PM, 28/09/2012 | Voice of VN_






(VOV) - *Vietnamese and Chinese experts have emphasised that the delineation of the seas outside the Tonkin Gulf should be based on international law.*

The agreement was reached at their second round of negotiations in Beijing on September 26 and 27 during which they stressed the importance of the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS).

In friendly, frank, and constructive discussions, they reiterated their determination to accelerate negotiations in accordance with the Vietnam-China agreement on basic principles guiding the settlement of sea-related issues, which was signed in October 2011.

The experts also scheduled the third round of negotiations for early 2013, to be held in Vietnam.

China, Vietnam discuss Tonkin Gulf issue - China, Vietnam discuss Tonkin Gulf issue - VOVNEWS.VN


----------



## Viet

Seems both sides have reached an agreement how we can go forward to delineation of the seas outside the Tonkin Gulf.


----------



## Viet

For anyone interested in the Sino-Vietnamese Agreement on Maritime Boundary Delimitation in the Gulf of Tonkin, here is a web link:

http://community.middlebury.edu/~scs/docs/zou keyuan-sino-vietnam boundary delimitation.pdf


----------



## Major Shaitan Singh

MANILA The Philippines has deployed 800 more Marines and opened a new headquarters to guard its interests in the disputed Spratly Islands, which China also claims, a senior military official said Sept. 30.

Straddling vital shipping lanes and believed sitting atop vast reserves of mineral deposits, including oil, the Spratlys chain in the South China Sea has long been considered a flashpoint for conflict in the region.

Apart from the Philippines and China, the Spratlys are claimed in whole or in part by Vietnam, Brunei, Malaysia and Taiwan.

Lt. Gen. Juancho Sabban, appearing to want to assuage Beijing in particular, said the deployment was only meant as a defensive measure and should not be seen as an aggressive move.

These two battalions which arrived recently will be augmenting protection of our islands, Sabban, who heads the military garrison which has jurisdiction over the Spratlys, told AFP.

We are just on a defensive posture and are ensuring the defense of our islands. It is better to defend than retake islands once other claimants occupy them.

He said a marine brigade headquarters had also been created on the nearby Philippine province of Palawan, facing the South China Sea, to provide command and control over the forces.

The Marines will not be stationed on the Spratlys but will patrol nearby.

Sabban accused China of continually fortifying its structures on islands in the Spratlys that Beijing controls, though at present no claimant countries have manifested any offensive action.

We are not there to create a situation where it will lead to an accidental conflict and escalate into a regional problem, Sabban stressed.

China, which is in a dispute with Japan over islands in the East China Sea, has been accused of ramping up tensions in the South China Sea. The Philippines and Vietnam over the past year raised alarm over Beijings assertiveness.

China claims all of the South China Sea, which Manila calls the West Philippine Sea, even waters close to its Asian neighbors.

Sabbans announcement came just days after incoming Chinese leader Xi Jinping met a special Philippine envoy and expressed hope bilateral ties would improve.

The meeting was set months after both sides were locked in a tense standoff in Scarborough shoal, another outcrop in the South China Sea north of the Spratlys.

Philippines Sends More Troops To Guard Disputed Islands | Defense News | defensenews.com

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## KRAIT

Being left alone by US to face China, Phillipines showing its courage. We all know there is thin line between stupidity and bravery but one should see that how a nation as small as Phillipines can stay on its feet without anyone's backing.

Its a nation that has taken stance against a superpower. That's what one nation has to learn.

No matter how small or weak you are, you can take on superpower face to face with courage.

Chinese will not let them have the islands but Phillipines has marked its resolve that is comendable.

Lesson for many countries to learn from them, the countries which are way more stronger than Phillipines.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Fanling Monk

The 800 marines are more for the deterrence of Vietnam, who occupies 40 islands that surround Filipino's possessions, than against China. Taiwan took her eyes off her possessions about a year ago and faced harassment from Vietnam and now she also fortifies her Taiping (Itu Aba) Island with many military assets in placed.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## KRAIT

This move bears Significance rather than flexing muscle. The are nothing before China but these moves certainly inspire the citizenry and other nations may follow the same.

China should immediately take some action with shock and awe.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Fanling Monk

I think China welcomes this move by the Philippines, along with the recent actions by Taiwan and to a lesser extend, Malaysia, keep the real ambitious one at bay. No one in their fair mind really thinks China, at this stage and age, wants and can take all the islands in the Sprately. The claims and counter claims from China are merely for better bargain positions and deter any one player (read Vietnam) from dominating this neighborhood.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## KRAIT

Fanling Monk said:


> I think China welcomes this move by the Philippines, along with the recent actions by Taiwan and to a lesser extend, Malaysia, keep the real ambitious one at bay. No one in their fair mind really thinks China, at this stage and age, wants and can take all the islands in the Sprately. The claims and counter claims from China are merely for better bargain positions and deter any one player (read Vietnam) from dominating this neighborhood.


Sudden change in tone where many Chinese posters said they want to dominate this region and share nothing when I said Sun Tzu's teachings will be used by China by first claiming entire region then bargaining to get more portion than expected.

Nice analysis. Its a domino effect, if Phillipines took against China, other will follow. May be what Japan did is what triggered the reaction.

From my POV, China will eventually get more than what should be theirs. Win-Win situation for China.

Chinese are good businessmen.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Fanling Monk

KRAIT said:


> Sudden change in tone where many Chinese posters said they want to dominate this region and share nothing when I said Sun Tzu's teachings will be used by China by first claiming entire region then bargaining to get more portion than expected.
> 
> Nice analysis. Its a domino effect, if Phillipines took against China, other will follow. May be what Japan did is what triggered the reaction.
> 
> From my POV, China will eventually get more than what should be theirs. Win-Win situation for China.
> 
> Chinese are good businessmen.




If one follows the events in the SCS closely one would realize all China's actions were the reactions of others' actions. China always insisted on peaceful settlements, albeit bilaterally, and that proves she has no intention whatsoever to take all properties in SCS. Granted, IMO, the 9 dash line claim was a little overdone diplomatically.

China's stand on Diaoyu is non negotiable, although she doesn't mind to keep the present status-quo for the meantime. The reason for that is not what the western medias insinuated, resources, but rather 1) in her view Diaoyu in her inherent territory and 2) sea lanes around this area is the strategic gateway to the Pacific for her northern merchant and naval fleets.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Viet

We don´t have problems with the Philippines move. Generally it is fine as long as we do not consider it as a step to pose a thread. Everyone knows VN agrees too to a peaceful approach.

But Vietnam reserves the right to act aggressively to any attempts by other countries aiming to change the current status quo. Hope China and Vietnam will soon reach an agreement, the latest sign was very promising.


----------



## NewCastle2012

Not 800, less than 80? That's why you shouldn't take them for serious. 
--------------
Phl denies mass deployment of troops in disputed territories
By Alexis Romero Home Updated October 01, 2012 05:19 PM 0 comment to this post

MANILA, Philippines - The military on Monday denied reports stating that 800 Marines have been deployed to the West Philippine Sea (South China Sea) to protect the Philippines&#8217; interests in the area.

Armed Forces of the Philippines (AFP) spokesman Col. Arnulfo Burgos Jr. said only less than 80 Marine soldiers have been sent to the area to administer two Marine battalions.

&#8220;There is no truth to the published reports about the recent deployment of 800 Philippine Marines personnel in the area of the Western Command,&#8221; Burgos said in a press briefing.

&#8220;The only recent deployment in Western Command is the arrival of the 3rd Marine Brigade Headquarters Command Group last Friday composed of less than 80 personnel,&#8221; he added.

Burgos said the Marine personnel who arrived recently in Palawan would provide &#8220;command and control&#8221; to the battalions stationed in the area.

Two battalions namely the Marine Battalion Landing Teams (MBLT) 4 and 12 are currently based in the province.

&#8220;No fresh battalions have arrived. The MBLT 4 and 12 have been in the area for years now,&#8221; Burgos said.

Lt. Gen. Juancho Sabban, the commander of the Palawan-based AFP Western Command, did not say anything about the deployment of 800 Marines, he added.

When asked what prompted the AFP to move the Marine personnel to Palawan, Burgos said: &#8220;These are for operational concerns so we can improve the conduct of operation in the area. We work continuous improvement.&#8221;

He added that the move seeks to ensure the &#8220;effective management and command of troops in the area.&#8221;

A wire report published in several newspapers last week said 800 Marines have been sent to the West Philippine Sea to secure the Philippines&#8217; interest in the hotly-contested area.

The report quoted Sabban as saying that the deployment was meant as a defensive measure and should not be viewed as an aggressive move.

The additional Marine troops, the report said, would conduct patrols near the Spratly Islands, which is being claimed in whole by China and in part by the Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan.

Meanwhile, the military kept mum on China&#8217;s move to fast-track the infrastructure projects in its newly-established city of Sansha.

&#8220;We will let the DFA (Department of Foreign Affairs) answer that. For our part, the performance of our constitutional duty will continue,&#8221; Burgos said.

On Sunday, China said it is speeding up the projects in Sansha City despite the protests by the Philippines, which claims that the establishment of the city violates its sovereignty.

China said Sansha authorities started crafting development plans for the city Saturday.

The infrastructure projects in the disputed area include road construction, water supply and drainage on Yongxing Island, the seat of the city government.

China said seven roads with a total length of five kilometers will be repaired or built to improve the island's traffic situation.

A desalinator capable of processing 1,000 cubic meters of seawater a day and an inter-island transportation system are also in the works.

China also announced the start of a housing construction program with a total investment of 18.7 million yuan or $2.97 million.

China formed Sansha on July 24 to strengthen its grip on disputed areas in the West Philippine Sea. The &#8220;prefecture level&#8221; city was intended to administer three disputed islands in the West Philippine Sea.

China earlier announced that Xisha (Paracels), Zhongsha (Macclesfield bank), and Nansha (Spratlys) islands have been elevated to &#8220;prefecture status&#8221; under Sansha city from their previous county-level status.

Chinese officials said the establishment of Sansha, which means &#8220;city of three sands,&#8221; would improve China&#8217;s administrative management on the three islands.

The Philippines has protested the creation of the city, saying this would violate its sovereign rights over the waters and continental shelf in the West Philippine Sea.

The DFA said the creation of Sansha infringes into the Philippines&#8217; sovereignty over the Kalayaan Group in Spratlys and the Panatag Shoal, also known by the names Scarborough Shoal and Bajo de Masinloc.

Kalayaan is a fifth class municipality in Palawan and is located on Pag-Asa Island, one of the country&#8217;s regime of islands and reefs located in the disputed Spratlys region.

The Philippines has built a town hall, a 1.3-kilometer airstrip, a naval station, a health center and recently a kindergarten school at Pag-asa Island.

On the other hand, the Panatag Shoal is located 124 nautical miles from the nearest base point in Zambales, well within the Philippines&#8217; exclusive economic zone. The Philippines&#8217; ownership of the shoal is backed by the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS).

The Philippines had filed 10 diplomatic protests against China for violation of the country&#8217;s sovereignty under UNCLOS, the latest being China&#8217;s establishment of Sansha which covered almost all of West Philippine Sea. 

Phl denies mass deployment of troops in disputed territories » Nation » News | Philippine News | philstar.com

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NiceGuy

Fanling Monk said:


> I think China welcomes this move by the Philippines, along with the recent actions by Taiwan and to a lesser extend, Malaysia, keep the real ambitious one at bay. No one in their fair mind really thinks China, at this stage and age, wants and can take all the islands in the Sprately. The claims and counter claims from China are merely for better bargain positions and deter any one player (read Vietnam) from dominating this neighborhood.


Our no 1 priority target in SCS(east sea) is Itu-aba, TWnese there are dead meat .We just need the Right time to attack and kick them back to their tiny TW island. 

Second target will be chinese troops in Spratly and Parracel, so other ASEAN troops don't have to worry about us.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Fanling Monk

NiceGuy said:


> Our no 1 priority target in SCS(east sea) is Itu-aba, TWnese there are dead meat .We just need the Right time to attack and kick them back to their tiny TW island.
> 
> Second target will be chinese troops in Spratly and Parracel, so other ASEAN troops don't have to worry about us.




Bravo General, don't forget the old saying: The higher you aim the harder you fall.


----------



## NiceGuy

Fanling Monk said:


> Bravo General, don't forget the old saying: The higher you aim the harder you fall.





> &#7843;o v&#7879; bi&#7875;n &#273;&#7843;o b&#7857;ng v&#361; khí hi&#7879;n &#273;&#7841;i nh&#7845;t
> C&#7853;p nh&#7853;t lúc :2:00 PM, 01/10/2012
> Thi&#7871;u t&#432;&#7899;ng Nguy&#7877;n Thanh Tu&#7845;n &#8211; C&#7909;c tr&#432;&#7903;ng C&#7909;c Tuyên hu&#7845;n, T&#7893;ng c&#7909;c chính tr&#7883;, cho bi&#7871;t chúng ta b&#7843;o v&#7879; bi&#7875;n &#273;&#7843;o b&#7857;ng nh&#7919;ng v&#361; khí hi&#7879;n &#273;&#7841;i b&#7853;c nh&#7845;t th&#7871; gi&#7899;i.
> 
> Phát bi&#7875;u t&#7841;i H&#7897;i ngh&#7883; ng&#432;&#7901;i Vi&#7879;t Nam t&#7841;i n&#432;&#7899;c ngoài l&#7847;n 2 di&#7877;n ra t&#7841;i TP HCM ngày 27 và 28/9/2012, Thi&#7871;u t&#432;&#7899;ng Nguy&#7877;n Thanh Tu&#7845;n &#8211; C&#7909;c tr&#432;&#7903;ng C&#7909;c Tuyên hu&#7845;n, T&#7893;ng c&#7909;c chính tr&#7883; Quân &#273;&#7897;i Nhân dân Vi&#7879;t Nam nh&#7845;n m&#7841;nh: "Chúng ta &#273;ã trang b&#7883; tàu h&#7897; v&#7879; tên l&#7917;a có kh&#7843; n&#259;ng b&#7843;o v&#7879; cách b&#7901; 200km tr&#7903; l&#7841;i, chúng ta c&#361;ng có nh&#7919;ng tên l&#7917;a có t&#7847;m b&#7855;n 600km, và c&#7843; nh&#7919;ng tên l&#7917;a n&#7857;m trong s&#7889; nh&#7919;ng v&#361; khí hi&#7879;n &#273;&#7841;i b&#7853;c nh&#7845;t trên th&#7871; gi&#7899;i hi&#7879;n nay. Chúng ta c&#361;ng mua s&#7855;m nh&#7919;ng máy bay &#273;&#7911; s&#7913;c b&#7843;o v&#7879; qu&#7847;n &#273;&#7843;o Tr&#432;&#7901;ng Sa c&#361;ng nh&#432; Hoàng Sa".
> BAODATVIET.VN | B



translate to English


> Major General Nguyen Thanh Tuan, director of the Propaganda and Training Department, General Political Department, said" VN protects the island by the *world's most modern weapons*".
> 
> Speaking at the meeting of overseas Vietnamese who was second place in Ho Chi Minh City on 27 and *Sep.28.2012*, Major General Nguyen Thanh Tuan, director of the Propaganda and Training Department, General Political Department of the Vietnam People's Army hit strengths: "We have guardian ship missiles equipped with the ability to protect the coast 200km return, *we also have the missile has a range of 600km*, and *the missiles are among the most modern weapons in the world today*. We also purchase enough aircraft to protect the Spratly and Paracel islands. "
> ............
> For the Spratly Islands, we affirm that* we are the first to control a whole vast island,* however, with a small naval force, and facilitate the development is not high, we just doin some islands. *1971 Philippines has encroached and made &#8203;&#8203;all five islands in the eastern part of the Spratly Islands* (near the Philippines), to 1973, they occupied two islands in the north.
> 
> For *Malaysia, until in 1979 they were occupied and all 7 islands in the southern Spratly Islands*. In 1988, the opportunity our country is facing many difficulties facing the southwest border war, China has conducted reviews over 7 reefs of Vietnam in the Spratlys. Until 1995, they captured the next two points managed by the Philippines over the Spratly Islands.


TWese troops are dead meat , we will 'cook' them with our most modern missiles

The attack will start soon, surrender is their best choice now


----------



## Kyusuibu Honbu

Fanling Monk said:


> Bravo General, don't forget the old saying: The higher you aim the harder you fall.



Isn't it : "the higher you go, the harder you fall"

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## terranMarine

How soon is soon? Taiwan hasn't heard anything from VN troops taking any steps.


----------



## Fanling Monk

NiceGuy said:


> TWese troops are dead meat , we will 'cook' them with our most modern missiles
> 
> The attack will start soon, surrender is their best choice now




"Thou shall not underestimate thy enemies", King Solomon, the wise one, once said. Oh BTW, have you heard? our new carrier, the Liaoning 016, is going to station in Hainan, a very short distance from where you live. 

@ Syama Ayas

In his case, the emotional fall is more devastating than physical fall. It can create a deep withdrawal that last a life time.


----------



## NiceGuy

terranMarine said:


> How soon is soon? Taiwan hasn't heard anything from VN troops taking any steps.


in the end Next yearr, I guess.

btw: we also love suddent attack like Tet offensive in 1968 during VN war


Fanling Monk said:


> "Thou shall not underestimate thy enemies", King Solomon, the wise one, once said. Oh BTW, have you heard? our new *carrier, the Liaoning 016*, is going to station in Hainan, a very short distance from where you live


Just forget your cheap junk, during VN war, U.S used nuclear carrier and still lost badly


----------



## NiceGuy

terranMarine said:


> How soon is soon? Taiwan hasn't heard anything from VN troops taking any steps.


in the end of Next yearr, I guess.

btw: we also love suddent attack like Tet offensive in 1968 during VN war


Fanling Monk said:


> "Thou shall not underestimate thy enemies", King Solomon, the wise one, once said. Oh BTW, have you heard? our new *carrier, the Liaoning 016*, is going to station in Hainan, a very short distance from where you live


Just forget your cheap junk, during VN war, U.S used nuclear carrier and still lost badly

Compared to U.S super nuclear carrier, your Liaoning 016 is just an ant in front of an elephant.


----------



## Pakchina

Major Shaitan Singh said:


> MANILA The Philippines has deployed 800 more Marines and opened a new headquarters to guard its interests in the disputed Spratly Islands, which China also claims, a senior military official said Sept. 30.
> 
> Straddling vital shipping lanes and believed sitting atop vast reserves of mineral deposits, including oil, the Spratlys chain in the South China Sea has long been considered a flashpoint for conflict in the region.
> 
> Apart from the Philippines and China, the Spratlys are claimed in whole or in part by Vietnam, Brunei, Malaysia and Taiwan.
> 
> Lt. Gen. Juancho Sabban, appearing to want to assuage Beijing in particular, said the deployment was only meant as a defensive measure and should not be seen as an aggressive move.
> 
> These two battalions which arrived recently will be augmenting protection of our islands, Sabban, who heads the military garrison which has jurisdiction over the Spratlys, told AFP.
> 
> We are just on a defensive posture and are ensuring the defense of our islands. It is better to defend than retake islands once other claimants occupy them.
> 
> He said a marine brigade headquarters had also been created on the nearby Philippine province of Palawan, facing the South China Sea, to provide command and control over the forces.
> 
> The Marines will not be stationed on the Spratlys but will patrol nearby.
> 
> Sabban accused China of continually fortifying its structures on islands in the Spratlys that Beijing controls, though at present no claimant countries have manifested any offensive action.
> 
> We are not there to create a situation where it will lead to an accidental conflict and escalate into a regional problem, Sabban stressed.
> 
> China, which is in a dispute with Japan over islands in the East China Sea, has been accused of ramping up tensions in the South China Sea. The Philippines and Vietnam over the past year raised alarm over Beijings assertiveness.
> 
> China claims all of the South China Sea, which Manila calls the West Philippine Sea, even waters close to its Asian neighbors.
> 
> Sabbans announcement came just days after incoming Chinese leader Xi Jinping met a special Philippine envoy and expressed hope bilateral ties would improve.
> 
> The meeting was set months after both sides were locked in a tense standoff in Scarborough shoal, another outcrop in the South China Sea north of the Spratlys.
> 
> Philippines Sends More Troops To Guard Disputed Islands | Defense News | defensenews.com



Hey Scatlander, the only country which is ramping tension is the US which is imposing a new colonial rule, no need to be an expert in foreign policy to conclude that the US is behind all the tensions in Asia. The US sees that its influence is declining amid China growing economic influence. So in view of restoring its influence, the US is imposing a divide and rule plolicy by blaming everything on China which is portrayed as the World evil to replace the ex-USSR, Bin Laden etc. It is the US which is pushing the Philippines to bash China while the Philippines Government is pushing hard to restore relation coz they know that the only country which could invest in their country is China and not the US. The Philippines is begging to meet the forthcoming new Chinese President and sending envoy to Beijing to restore relations but at the same time Philippines must satisfy the US demand by continuing to add flame in the current tension with China. Same thing with Japan, the Japanese Government has just beg and send envoys to restore relations with China while it is addting tension to the territorial claims at the request of the US which wants China to pay for its support to Syria and Iran.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Kyusuibu Honbu

Diamond_Gold said:


> *BTW, how are the Real Assamese doing now? I meant those who are living perpertually high up in the mountain ones and why was their numbers keep in check while those so-called "indigenous" and the illegal immigrants are now taking over their lands and properties?*



Do you believe that those illegal immigrants should be driven out?


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

Good, next time there will be more of friendly football matches between the two navies Vietnam-Philippines in Spratlys...

Philippines, Vietnam try football diplomacy in Spratlys | Inquirer Global Nation


----------



## Viet

Calm down. There will be no any wars in the SCS as long as the negotiation is ongoing.
I will get nervous if the talk breaks down.


----------



## NiceGuy

Viet said:


> Calm down. There will be no any wars in the SCS as long as the negotiation is ongoing.
> I will get nervous if the talk breaks down.



In new year of 1968, we had a 'cease fire' agreement with U.S and suddenly we launched a full-scale attack to them 

We could repeat this tactic with Chinese-TWese agrressors


----------



## terranMarine

NiceGuy said:


> In new year of 1968, we had a 'cease fire' agreement with U.S and suddenly we launched a full-scale attack to them
> 
> We could repeat this tactic with Chinese-TWese agrressors



Why didn't your generals think of that? You should re-educate them about history and repeat the same tactic.


----------



## Viet

terranMarine said:


> Why didn't your generals think of that? You should re-educate them about history and repeat the same tactic.




No war!

Vietnam and China agreed at the last round of negotiation in Beijing, on how to mark the future border lines between the two parties in the SCS: based on the international laws, NOT on outdated nor self drawn maps, 
that means China has given up the ridiculous position of 9-dash-line.


----------



## terranMarine

Your buddy has some ideas of repeating history by launching a surprise attack. You should tell him that VN won't be taking any of those islands administrated by Taiwan back.


----------



## Viet

terranMarine said:


> Your buddy has some ideas of repeating history by launching a surprise attack. You should tell him that VN won't be taking any of those islands administrated by Taiwan back.




I don´t need to tell him. He is not the commander in chief.


----------



## terranMarine

Yes some day dreamer must be reminded of that fact


----------



## OrionHunter

Here's Spratlys Islands that clearly shows that they are well within the EEZ of the Philippines and a million miles away from the Chinese coastline. However the Han Dynasty keeps producing mythological maps made by the great bearded ones, somewhere around 3000 BC! 







By violently establishing their claim on the Spartly Islands, the Chinese Communist Party hopes to prepare for technological advances in deep sea drilling and mining, so they have the ability to directly profit from the area&#8217;s natural resources&#8211; and cause irreversible environmental damage in the process.

*The Chinese Communist Party's claim on the Spratlys is bizarre, belligerent and absolutely ridiculous!! *


----------



## Fanling Monk

NiceGuy said:


> Just forget your cheap junk, during VN war, U.S used nuclear carrier and still lost badly
> 
> Compared to U.S super nuclear carrier, your Liaoning 016 is just an ant in front of an elephant.




I smell something sour, is it outdated grape or some innate fear? Yeah, the glories of the past war and I sincerely admire Vietnam for that. But then man made tunnel diggings do not go well under the sea and that takes away one of the biggest advantage your troop have in fighting- sneak attacks and guerrilla warfare.


----------



## Tshering22

Philippines has more guts than our government. At least it is standing up for its rights.


----------



## Zero_wing

Pakchina said:


> Hey Scatlander, the only country which is ramping tension is the US which is imposing a new colonial rule, no need to be an expert in foreign policy to conclude that the US is behind all the tensions in Asia. The US sees that its influence is declining amid China growing economic influence. So in view of restoring its influence, the US is imposing a divide and rule plolicy by blaming everything on China which is portrayed as the World evil to replace the ex-USSR, Bin Laden etc. It is the US which is pushing the Philippines to bash China while the Philippines Government is pushing hard to restore relation coz they know that the only country which could invest in their country is China and not the US. The Philippines is begging to meet the forthcoming new Chinese President and sending envoy to Beijing to restore relations but at the same time Philippines must satisfy the US demand by continuing to add flame in the current tension with China. Same thing with Japan, the Japanese Government has just beg and send envoys to restore relations with China while it is addting tension to the territorial claims at the request of the US which wants China to pay for its support to Syria and Iran.



Hahahaha one that's full of bull because we are pulling investments out many countries we can live without china our largest investors are Korea, US, Japan, Uk and the European Union, and Russia then china which we are getting less of so we can live without useless china besides her economy is going down soon

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## gpit

NiceGuy said:


> translate to English
> 
> "Major General Nguyen Thanh Tuan, director of the Propaganda and Training Department, General Political Department, said" VN protects the island by the world's most modern weapons".
> 
> ...



*It is a miracle that one of the most backward countries in the world has the world's most modern weapons*.


----------



## NiceGuy

gpit said:


> *It is a miracle that one of the most backward countries in the world has the world's most modern weapons*.


We're long time ally of former Soviet and Russia now, so it's not hard to have Missile technology transfer from Russia

Even our nuclear capable plus anti-carrier missile Shaddock alone is far better than any China's anti-ship missile

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## faithfulguy

NiceGuy said:


> We're long time ally of former Soviet and Russia now, so it's not hard to have Missile technology transfer from Russia
> 
> Even our nuclear capable plus anti-carrier missile Shaddock alone is far better than any China's anti-ship missile



This is an old piece of crap that is retired by Russia. How can a missile with CEP of 3000m hit a ship consistently. Are you sure that Russian are your friends? You need to get a more modern missile from them.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Kyusuibu Honbu

Diamond_Gold said:


> Yeah, including the indians also because you guys are the 1st batch of illegal immigrants to grab their lands, IMHO.
> 
> BTW, if you guys are really sincere, go and ask only the indigenous ASSAMESE whose have been living on that piece of lands for many many many many many ... generations (even way before the british india existed) whether they want indians to leave as well.
> 
> Please do the needful things to show case that india is indeed the world democratic country by not depreiving others to make their choices. And thank you for your generous gesture to allow me to speak my mind. LOLOL...



Good to know one Sinaporean who says Bangladeshis in Assam should leave.


----------



## NiceGuy

faithfulguy said:


> This is an old piece of crap that is retired by Russia. How can a missile with CEP of 3000m hit a ship consistently.


We've collaborated with Russian experts to upgrade the missile for long time already. it has Mach 2.5 now

btw: CEP of 3000m is for land attack version developed in 50's , the antiship version in 60's have much better CEP and now it's CEP is much much better


> The P-6 [SS-N-3a Shaddock] is a *more accurate cruise missile* later developed for targeting US Aircraft carriers. This radar-homing missile is launched from Echo II and Juliett submarines and flies to a maximum range of 220 nm at a cruise speed of* Mach 1.2. *A 2200-lb conventional or nuclear warhead is estimated for the SS-N-3a
> SS-N-3 / SSC-1a Shaddock - Russian / Soviet Nuclear Forces





faithfulguy said:


> Are you sure that Russian are your friends? .You need to get a more modern missile from them



Russia just sold us K300P Bastion-P, a very powerful mobile coastal defence missile system and specially she sell weapons to us on Creadit. Only true and longtime friend will do like that.

btw: I don't know if your China sell all of her weapons to Pakistan on Credit or not.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

gpit said:


> *It is a miracle that one of the most backward countries in the world has the world's most modern weapons*.





It is a miracle, that you are so ashamed of your origin country. And it is amazing to see a backward country defeated the more advanced one several times since ancient times.

Do you want to try? just send your warships into our waters, and we will see how fast they sink!

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## applesauce

Viet said:


> It is a miracle, that you are so ashamed of your origin country. And it is amazing to see a backward country defeated the more advanced one several times since ancient times.
> 
> Do you want to try? just send your warships into our waters, and we will see how fast they sink!



chinese warships have been sailing in what u claim to be your waters for...well since even before the founding of the peoples republic, vietnam tried shooting at our ships once in 1974,just once and the result was the fishes got fat from feeding on your sailors. oh the ships are sill hanging around

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

applesauce said:


> *chinese warships* have been sailing in what u claim to be your waters for...well since even before the founding of the peoples republic, vietnam tried shooting at our ships once in 1974,just once and the result was the fishes got fat from feeding on your sailors. oh the ships are sill hanging around



So did Vietnamese warships.

Second, I admit the battle of Paracels was a huge defeat for the South Vietnamese Navy, and was a big disgrace and treason from our former US ally. All South Vietnamese never forget this.

Third, I can tell you about our Naval victory of the battles of Bach Dang river in ancient times, where we sent the invasion forces of Imperial China and Mogolian into the bottom of the sea!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## gpit

Viet said:


> For anyone interested in the Sino-Vietnamese Agreement on Maritime Boundary Delimitation in the Gulf of Tonkin, here is a web link:
> 
> http://community.middlebury.edu/~scs/docs/zou keyuan-sino-vietnam boundary delimitation.pdf



Sure. Let me provide my personal opinion.

I remember a business course that teaches that a contract is meaningful only if the two parties are sincere in the business. Otherwise any contract is as useless as BS.

Vietnam PM Van earlier agreed in writing that VN supports China&#8217;s claim of Spratly is Chinese territory, 




and now all sorts of Vietnamese are attempting to deny that in a clownish way, because they believe Vn no longer needs China.

Really doubt how meaningful current agreement will be *given Vietnamese past unsincere and untrustworthy behavior*. China must not think the agreement will settle anything: in the future the Viets may will negate whatever they agree today, because unfortunately to VN as now VN still relies on Chinese economy.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Fanling Monk

*Look what I found, an old map from Qing Dynasty (1644-1911) *


----------



## Viet

Fanling Monk said:


> *Look what I found, an old map from Qing Dynasty (1644-1911) *




Ok...but you forgot to show us the maps which did not inlcude the large parts of China today.


----------



## Viet

gpit said:


> Sure. Let me provide my personal opinion.
> 
> I remember a business course that teaches that a contract is meaningful only if the two parties are sincere in the business. Otherwise any contract is as useless as BS.
> 
> Vietnam PM Van earlier agreed in writing that VN supports Chinas claim of Spratly is Chinese territory,




Again, at that time only the North Vietnamese National Assembly had the absolute authority to declare and decide about sovernrity. Not the government or the prime minister.

This piece of paper is worthless. Anyway the paper does not mention anything related to the South China Sea and Islands.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

gpit said:


> Sure. Let me provide my personal opinion.
> 
> I remember a business course that teaches that a contract is meaningful only if the two parties are sincere in the business. Otherwise any contract is as useless as BS.
> 
> Vietnam PM Van earlier agreed in writing that VN supports Chinas claim of Spratly is Chinese territory,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and now all sorts of Vietnamese are attempting to deny that in a clownish way, because they believe Vn no longer needs China.
> 
> Really doubt how meaningful current agreement will be *given Vietnamese past unsincere and untrustworthy behavior*. China must not think the agreement will settle anything: in the future the Viets may will negate whatever they agree today, because unfortunately to VN as now VN still relies on Chinese economy.



North Vietnam didn't have rights over Islands of South Vietnam. Geneva 1954 China and north Vietnam signed it. China have to know it. Chinese stop lying about nature of the letter.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## EastSea

Fanling Monk said:


> *Look what I found, an old map from Qing Dynasty (1644-1911) *



Idiot, stop lying.
nine dash created by KMT 1947, no in time of QuingMan.
Here is true map of Chine printed in China when Man Quing ruled China.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

EastSea said:


> North Vietnam didn't have rights over Islands of South Vietnam. Geneva 1954 China and north Vietnam signed it. China have to know it. Chinese stop lying about nature of the letter.




That´s right. If people followed Chinese logic, then North Korea had the right to cede parts of South Korea to Japan or Vietnam.

If I understand the last agreement in Beijing correctly, then
- Vietnam agrees with China to bilateral negotiation
- China agrees with Vietnam that a future sea border will base on the international laws, NOT on ancient maps or self-drawn, or self-made history!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zero_wing

Please your own topics about Vietnam if you want but china is not getting its way


----------



## grandmaster

Viet said:


> That´s right. If people followed Chinese logic, then North Korea had the right to cede parts of South Korea to Japan or Vietnam.
> 
> If I understand the last agreement in Beijing correctly, then
> - Vietnam agrees with China to bilateral negotiation
> - China agrees with Vietnam that a future sea border will base on the international laws, NOT on ancient maps or self-drawn, or self-made history!



if following your logic, then which then current ruling party and the governemt of vietnam would not exist! that is not what the reality is. please stop giving illusive idea and reasoning crap!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

grandmaster said:


> if following your logic, then which then current ruling party and the governemt of vietnam would not exist! that is not what the reality is. please stop giving illusive idea and reasoning crap!



You have to read the relative document signed by Representatives of both side for settlement the dispute on sea before troll here.


----------



## gpit

Viet said:


> Again, at that time only the North Vietnamese National Assembly had the absolute authority to declare and decide about sovernrity. Not the government or the prime minister.
> 
> This piece of paper is worthless. Anyway the paper does not mention anything related to the South China Sea and Islands.



Your PM Vans formal note says:

We would like to inform you that the Government of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam has noted and support the September 4, 1958 declaration by the Peoples Republic of China regarding territorial waters of China.



"

OK. The paper from your worthless state leaders is all worthless, including the worthless Tokin Gulf agreement.


----------



## gpit

EastSea said:


> North Vietnam didn't have rights over Islands of South Vietnam. Geneva 1954 China and north Vietnam signed it. China have to know it. Chinese stop lying about nature of the letter.




I have no dispute that Vietnamese leaders are shameless and trust-worthless: they even dare to give somebody else the stuffs that are not theirs. 


Is that your Viet comm&#8217;s behavior? Are your today&#8217;s leaders doing the same thing withTokin Gulf?

If next time somebody overthrows your government, will the agreement still be in effect?


Again, all focuses on one conclusion: Vietnamese leaders are not trustworthy and shameless.


----------



## gpit

Viet said:


> That´s right. If people followed Chinese logic, then North Korea had the right to cede parts of South Korea to Japan or Vietnam.
> 
> ...




The point here is that North Korean leaders are more shameful than your leaders that NK leader won't sign anything as such, but your shameless leaders would.

Your VN leaders are more shameful and worthless than NK Kim dynasty.


----------



## Viet

grandmaster said:


> if following your logic, then which then current ruling party and the governemt of vietnam would not exist! that is not what the reality is. please stop giving illusive idea and reasoning crap!



I think China does not need any advice abroad. And it is not your business.




gpit said:


> The point here is that North Korean leaders are more shameful than your leaders that NK leader won't sign anything as such, but your shameless leaders would.
> Your VN leaders are more shameful and worthless than NK Kim dynasty.



No need to cry and talk nonsense!
You can go to Chinese leaders and blame them for listening to us.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

gpit said:


> I have no dispute that Vietnamese leaders are shameless and trust-worthless: they even dare to give somebody else the stuffs that are not theirs.
> 
> 
> Is that your Viet comm&#8217;s behavior? Are your today&#8217;s leaders doing the same thing withTokin Gulf?
> 
> If next time somebody overthrows your government, will the agreement still be in effect?
> 
> 
> Again, all focuses on one conclusion: Vietnamese leaders are not trustworthy and shameless.



It's shameful for China, when lies about nature of the letter from PVD, he writeen about 12 miles and respected it from legal position of North Vietnam, and didn't mentioned about Islands becourse its belong to South Vietnam after Geneva Aggreement 1954 signed by both China and Nort Vietnam.

1889, business ship Imezi Maru transported bronze for Britain, was robbed by Chinese sea pirates on sea near by Paracel. Cantonese Governor answered to the protest of related authority that Island not belong to China so China don't have responsible about such accident.

China is liar, shameless and trust-worthless.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Zero_wing

EastSea said:


> It's shameful for China, when lies about nature of the letter from PVD, he writeen about 12 miles and respected it from legal position of North Vietnam, and didn't mentioned about Islands becourse its belong to South Vietnam after Geneva Aggreement 1954 signed by both China and Nort Vietnam.
> 
> 1889, business ship Imezi Maru transported bronze for Britain, was robbed by Chinese sea pirates on sea near by Paracel. Cantonese Governor answered to the protest of related authority that Island not belong to China so China don't have responsible about such accident.
> 
> China is liar, shameless and trust-worthless.



Other epic fail for imperialism


----------



## Snomannen

This thread gave me cancer.


----------



## Zero_wing

KirovAirship said:


> This thread gave me cancer.



then see a doctor

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NiceGuy

> HANOI Oct 9 (Reuters) - TNK Vietnam, a subsidiary of Russia's third-largest oil producer TNK-BP, said on Tuesday it has started gas production at the Lan Do field off Vietnam's coast.
> 
> Production began on Sunday at the field, 28 kilometres east of Lan Tay Platform in *Block 06.1*, the company said in a statement.
> 
> The production at Lan Do field will help the company sell 2 billion cubic metres of gas annually. TNK-BP, half owned by BP , acquired a 35-percent stake from BP and became the operator of Block 06.1 in 2011.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNK Vietnam says starts Vietnam gas production | Energy & Oil | Reuters


Block 06.1 is inside Chinese Cow's Tongue

............

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## SinoChallenger

It's not even in the 9 section line. Vietnam just revealed its cowardice.






China should still spank Vietnam though, just for drilling anywhere in the world

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NiceGuy

SinoChallenger said:


> It's not even in the 9 section line. Vietnam just revealed its cowardice.
> 
> 
> China should still spank Vietnam though, just for drilling anywhere in the world


Making yourself happy now ?? check again the map, block 06.1 is Inside your stupid cow's tongue




Chinese cow's tongue is Black dash

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

It is not a disputed zone.

No one acknowledges China's cow tongue.

China's cow tongue is worthless, why could call it as a disputed zone while it lies entirely within EEZ of Vietnam?


*Above all: This is a good good good news for one of oil and gas joint-ventures Vietnam - Russia
Cheer!*


BTW: Lan &#272;&#7887; Oilfield = Red Orchid Oilfield

Lan &#272;&#7887;:

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## veekysingh

djsjs said:


> A children's song
> &#23567;&#32769;&#40736;&#65292;&#19978;&#28783;&#21488;&#65292; &#12288;&#12288;
> &#20599;&#27833;&#21507;&#65292;&#19979;&#19981;&#26469;&#12290; &#12288;&#12288;
> &#29483;&#26469;&#20102;&#65292;&#23475;&#24597;&#20102;&#65292; &#12288;&#12288;
> &#21653;&#22108;&#21653;&#22108;&#28378;&#19979;&#26469;&#12290;



 &#23567;&#38382;&#39064; &#12290;&#12290; &#20013;&#22269; &#32769;&#29240;&#65288;&#20420;&#32599;&#26031;&#65289;&#36319;&#30528;&#36234;&#21335;

congrates to vietnam,  they are doing good after all this bullying.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Hellraiser007

Congrats Vietnam establish some nuclear reactors in your country so that you can grow economically.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Viet

Great news!


----------



## Shardul.....the lion

Indeed a great development.

Indeed a great development.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

SinoChallenger said:


> No need to be so eager. I fully support spanking Vietnam whether or not it's in our 9 section line. Just because PLA needs some practice.




You are welcome to send your high-profile aircraft carrier into our waters. We will see how fast it sinks. Loser!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

Plexyre said:


> Anyways, congrats with the gas production




Thanks, I am a little bit surprised, coming from a Chinese.


> The area "lies entirely within Vietnam's 200-nautical-mile exclusive economic zone and continental shelf," said Vietnam Ministry of Foreign Affairs spokesman Luong Thanh Nghi, Bloomberg News reported. "This is absolutely not a disputed area."


----------



## Hellraiser007

Hoang Anh Tuan, Director-General of the Institute for Foreign Policy and Strategic Studies at the Diplomatic Academy of Vietnam, explains that Regrettably, China does not yet recognize the extent to which its aggressive course in the South China Sea is damaging its diplomacy with neighboring countries.
-
A respected characteristic of a truly global power lies in its ability to admit and move beyond historical misadventures.
-

-
EAST WEST CENTER
-
ASIA PACIFIC BULLETIN
-
NUMBER 181, SEPTEMBER 27, 2012
-
Chinese Strategic Miscalculations in the
South China Sea
-
BY HOANG ANH TUAN
-
Just less than a decade ago, China ranked as the worlds fifth largest economy. Since then,
high domestic economic growth has enabled it to surpass Japan as the second largest global
economy, and China is now poised to overtake the United States as the worlds largest
economy, possibly within the next 10 to 20 years. With a huge population and a dynamic
economic foundation, there is every reason to believe that China could very well one day
become the worlds largest economy. However, attaining that level of economic prowess
is no guarantee of superpower status. It took the United States over 75 years and two
world wars to become a global superpower in terms of both economic and military
supremacy.
-
This suggests that even if China does ascend to become the worlds largest economy, it
will not automatically transform itself into the most powerful nation. The key lesson for
China is that it needs to develop a technologically advanced economy enhanced by good
governance, effective policy making, and respected global citizenship supported by levelheaded
diplomacy. Sustaining superpower status is no small challenge. History is full of
accounts of failed superpowers that collapsed into obscurity by virtue of succumbing to
competitors, committing strategic blunders that squandered resources, compromising the
interests of their citizenry, or misjudging the intentions of rivals.
-
For China, the South China Sea dispute represents the kind of challenge that could
determine whether or how China will indeed ascend to superpower status. Regrettably,
China does not yet recognize the extent to which its aggressive course in the South China
Sea is damaging its diplomacy with neighboring countries.
-
First, sovereignty disputes with some ASEAN neighbors have severely weakened China's
standing in the region and beyond. The deterioration of Chinas relationship with the
West after the 1989 Tiananmen Square incident should be a strong reminder to Beijing of
its recent strategic errors in judgment. During that period, ASEAN played an important
role as a conduit for China to the outside world. Indeed, it is in large part due to Chinas
relationship with ASEAN that China was able to gradually resume normal diplomatic
relations with the West.
-
Chinas current assertiveness in the South China Sea is now slowly but surely eroding its
positive image with its ASEAN neighbors as a peacefully rising power. Without exception,
countries within Southeast Asia and beyond are very cautious of Chinas rise. Even as
Chinas national economic and global stature increase, its influence, image and soft
power abroad is declining dramatically.
-
Second, Chinas aggressiveness has resulted in the United States reprioritizing its global
strategy with its pivot or rebalance toward the Asia-Pacific region. This policy
adjustment by the United States has given Chinese policymakers serious reason for concern and activated the fear that China might again end up being contained in much the
same way as the former Soviet Union during the Cold War.
-
China now sees US hands in both its internal and external affairs. Examples this year of
US influence in Chinas domestic affairs include Wang Lijun, Chongqings former police
chief, applying to the US Consulate in Chengdu for political asylum and the blind lawyer,
Chen Guangcheng, fleeing to the US Embassy in Beijing. Throughout the region, US allies
including Japan, South Korea and the Philippines have all upgraded their already strong
military cooperation with the United States. If China continues to ignore the interests or
concerns of its neighbors who have a stake in the South China Sea, its aggressiveness is
likely to galvanize increased regional cooperation with the United States.
-
Third, troubles with close neighbors also affect the image and position of China in the
world. The most important condition for any country aspiring to ascend to global power
status is to maintain good relations with its neighbors. However, if China is unable or
unwilling to maintain a cordial relationship with its closest neighbors, how can countries
further afield trust and respect this aspiring superpower? As long as China is unable to
maintain a significant level of trust and friendship with its neighbors, benevolent global
power status for China is likely to remain a pipe dream.
-
Fourth, Chinas dramatic assertion of unilateral sovereignty over the South China Sea has
adversely affected the peaceful environment China desperately needs to become a global
power. If conflict does break out, it is likely to have a sustained, widespread and long-term
detrimental impact on the regional economic and security situation in the region. China
itself would severely be impacted as nearly 80 percent of its oil imports and the majority of
its goods, imports and exports, flow through the Strait of Malacca and other South China
Sea routes.
-
Central to the dispute is Chinas claim of sovereignty over the U-shaped line that it claims
to have inherited from the Kuomintang government, and which was only officially
submitted to the UN Commission on the Limits of the Continental Shelf in 2009. As the
lines are not based on any legal foundation and have no specific geographical coordinates,
they leave room for inconsistent explanations from China. It should be noted that the
Chinese U-shaped line covers 80 percent of the South China Sea, while China only
administers 15 percent of that area.
-
Chinas unilateral claims of sovereignty over the years to the South China Sea has made the majority of Chinese citizenry mistakenly believe that China does indeed own the entire
area within the U-shaped line and that the line makes up Chinas southern border.
However, newly discovered maps in 1904 dating from the Qing Dynasty do not show the
Paracel and Spratlys Islands. Instead, it is Hainan Island that is depicted as Chinas
southern most border. Unfortunately, this U-shaped line is now very much like a bone in
Chinas throat that it cannot swallow or remove.
-
A respected characteristic of a truly global power lies in its ability to admit and move
beyond historical misadventures. US efforts to normalize relations with Vietnam are a case
in point. China is a great civilization which gave birth to great men like Laozi, Confucius,
and Li Shizen, and by following the teachings of these renowned philosophers China
should be capable of overcoming its miscalculations in its South China Sea policy.
-
First and foremost, China should take constructive steps to bring about an amicable
conclusion to negotiations on the Code of Conduct (COC) in the South China Sea, and
implement a face-saving policy renouncing once and for all its U-shaped line. Obviously,
this will be a difficult decision for China to take. However, the international dividend and
return for Chinas peaceful rise would ripple far beyond the neighborhood and confines of
the South China Sea.

http://www.eastwestcenter.org/sites/default/files/private/apb_181.pdf

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

If China rejects to recognise international laws, then they must leave the treaty!
Otherwise we could play the same game: we claim parts of the East China Sea off China´s coast.



United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
*United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea*





*
Internal waters*
Covers all water and waterways on the landward side of the baseline. The coastal state is free to set laws, regulate use, and use any resource. Foreign vessels have no right of passage within internal waters.

*Territorial waters*
Out to 12 nautical miles (22 kilometres; 14 miles) from the baseline, the coastal state is free to set laws, regulate use, and use any resource. Vessels were given the right of innocent passage through any territorial waters, with strategic straits allowing the passage of military craft as transit passage, in that naval vessels are allowed to maintain postures that would be illegal in territorial waters. "Innocent passage" is defined by the convention as passing through waters in an expeditious and continuous manner, which is not "prejudicial to the peace, good order or the security" of the coastal state. Fishing, polluting, weapons practice, and spying are not "innocent", and submarines and other underwater vehicles are required to navigate on the surface and to show their flag. Nations can also temporarily suspend innocent passage in specific areas of their territorial seas, if doing so is essential for the protection of its security.

*Archipelagic waters*
The convention set the definition of Archipelagic States in Part IV, which also defines how the state can draw its territorial borders. A baseline is drawn between the outermost points of the outermost islands, subject to these points being sufficiently close to one another. All waters inside this baseline are designated Archipelagic Waters. The state has full sovereignty over these waters (like internal waters), but foreign vessels have right of innocent passage through archipelagic waters (like territorial waters).

*Contiguous zone*
Beyond the 12 nautical mile limit, there is a further 12 nautical miles from the territorial sea baseline limit, the contiguous zone, in which a state can continue to enforce laws in four specific areas: customs, taxation, immigration and pollution, if the infringement started within the state's territory or territorial waters, or if this infringement is about to occur within the state's territory or territorial waters.[4] This makes the contiguous zone a hot pursuit area.
*
Exclusive economic zones (EEZs)*
These extend from the edge of the territorial sea out to 200 nautical miles (370 kilometres; 230 miles) from the baseline. Within this area, the coastal nation has sole exploitation rights over all natural resources. In casual use, the term may include the territorial sea and even the continental shelf. The EEZs were introduced to halt the increasingly heated clashes over fishing rights, although oil was also becoming important. The success of an offshore oil platform in the Gulf of Mexico in 1947 was soon repeated elsewhere in the world, and by 1970 it was technically feasible to operate in waters 4000 metres deep. Foreign nations have the freedom of navigation and overflight, subject to the regulation of the coastal states. Foreign states may also lay submarine pipes and cables.

*Continental shelf*
The continental shelf is defined as the natural prolongation of the land territory to the continental margin&#8217;s outer edge, or 200 nautical miles from the coastal state&#8217;s baseline, whichever is greater. A state&#8217;s continental shelf may exceed 200 nautical miles until the natural prolongation ends. However, it may never exceed 350 nautical miles (650 kilometres; 400 miles) from the baseline; or it may never exceed 100 nautical miles (190 kilometres; 120 miles) beyond the 2,500 meter isobath (the line connecting the depth of 2,500 meters). Coastal states have the right to harvest mineral and non-living material in the subsoil of its continental shelf, to the exclusion of others. Coastal states also have exclusive control over living resources "attached" to the continental shelf, but not to creatures living in the water column beyond the exclusive economic zone.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ChinaToday

Viet said:


> If China rejects to recognise international laws, then they must leave the treaty!
> Otherwise we could play the same game: we claim parts of the East China Sea off China´s coast.
> 
> 
> 
> United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> *United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Internal waters*
> Covers all water and waterways on the landward side of the baseline. The coastal state is free to set laws, regulate use, and use any resource. Foreign vessels have no right of passage within internal waters.
> 
> *Territorial waters*
> Out to 12 nautical miles (22 kilometres; 14 miles) from the baseline, the coastal state is free to set laws, regulate use, and use any resource. Vessels were given the right of innocent passage through any territorial waters, with strategic straits allowing the passage of military craft as transit passage, in that naval vessels are allowed to maintain postures that would be illegal in territorial waters. "Innocent passage" is defined by the convention as passing through waters in an expeditious and continuous manner, which is not "prejudicial to the peace, good order or the security" of the coastal state. Fishing, polluting, weapons practice, and spying are not "innocent", and submarines and other underwater vehicles are required to navigate on the surface and to show their flag. Nations can also temporarily suspend innocent passage in specific areas of their territorial seas, if doing so is essential for the protection of its security.
> 
> *Archipelagic waters*
> The convention set the definition of Archipelagic States in Part IV, which also defines how the state can draw its territorial borders. A baseline is drawn between the outermost points of the outermost islands, subject to these points being sufficiently close to one another. All waters inside this baseline are designated Archipelagic Waters. The state has full sovereignty over these waters (like internal waters), but foreign vessels have right of innocent passage through archipelagic waters (like territorial waters).
> 
> *Contiguous zone*
> Beyond the 12 nautical mile limit, there is a further 12 nautical miles from the territorial sea baseline limit, the contiguous zone, in which a state can continue to enforce laws in four specific areas: customs, taxation, immigration and pollution, if the infringement started within the state's territory or territorial waters, or if this infringement is about to occur within the state's territory or territorial waters.[4] This makes the contiguous zone a hot pursuit area.
> *
> Exclusive economic zones (EEZs)*
> These extend from the edge of the territorial sea out to 200 nautical miles (370 kilometres; 230 miles) from the baseline. Within this area, the coastal nation has sole exploitation rights over all natural resources. In casual use, the term may include the territorial sea and even the continental shelf. The EEZs were introduced to halt the increasingly heated clashes over fishing rights, although oil was also becoming important. The success of an offshore oil platform in the Gulf of Mexico in 1947 was soon repeated elsewhere in the world, and by 1970 it was technically feasible to operate in waters 4000 metres deep. Foreign nations have the freedom of navigation and overflight, subject to the regulation of the coastal states. Foreign states may also lay submarine pipes and cables.
> 
> *Continental shelf*
> The continental shelf is defined as the natural prolongation of the land territory to the continental margin&#8217;s outer edge, or 200 nautical miles from the coastal state&#8217;s baseline, whichever is greater. A state&#8217;s continental shelf may exceed 200 nautical miles until the natural prolongation ends. However, it may never exceed 350 nautical miles (650 kilometres; 400 miles) from the baseline; or it may never exceed 100 nautical miles (190 kilometres; 120 miles) beyond the 2,500 meter isobath (the line connecting the depth of 2,500 meters). Coastal states have the right to harvest mineral and non-living material in the subsoil of its continental shelf, to the exclusion of others. Coastal states also have exclusive control over living resources "attached" to the continental shelf, but not to creatures living in the water column beyond the exclusive economic zone.



you tell me according to this International law of the sea falkland belong to argentina or britian


----------



## Viet

I found a pic from Hoàng Anh Tu&#7845;n:





Director-General Hoàng Anh Tu&#7845;n, Head of the Institute for Foreign Policy and Strategic Studie (VN) - right
Director-General Michael Clark, Royal United Services Institute for Defense and Security Studies (UK) - left
Signing a memorandum of understanding (MoU) of cooperation in London on October 25, 2011

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

ChinaToday said:


> you tell me according to this International law of the sea falkland belong to argentina or britian



It's difference case. 
All native people are living in Falkland and in Argentina were immigration there in the same time in the past. PM Cameron said he will agree that Falkland can join to Argentina if people living Falkland will voting for that.
But Argentina don't give it up.

Islands belong to Vietnam from time of Nguyen Warlord 1600 until Nguyen Dynasty, we controlled Islands peacefully, continously in the past. Man Quing Dynasty China's accepted and Map printed in China did'nt drawn up Islands of Vietnam.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Fanling Monk

*South China Sea Fleet in training* 








A marine brigade under the South China Sea Fleet of the Navy of the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) carried out training on such subjects as rapid assembly and loading, long-range maneuver, and beach seizing and landing on the eve of the National Day, 2012, so as to enhance the actual combat capability of the troop. Separately.....

China will use more drones to increase surveillance over its coastal waters, expand its marine surveillance scope, and enhance overall management and control over its territorial waters, including waters around the Huangyan and Diaoyu islands, Suyan Rock, as well as Xisha, Zhongsha, and Nansha islands. 

http://english.people.com.cn/90786/7971378.html


----------



## EastSea

Fanling Monk said:


> *South China Sea Fleet in training*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A marine brigade under the South China Sea Fleet of the Navy of the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) carried out training on such subjects as rapid assembly and loading, long-range maneuver, and beach seizing and landing on the eve of the National Day, 2012, so as to enhance the actual combat capability of the troop. Separately.....
> 
> China will use more drones to increase surveillance over its coastal waters, expand its marine surveillance scope, and enhance overall management and control over its territorial waters, including waters around the Huangyan and Diaoyu islands, Suyan Rock, as well as Xisha, Zhongsha, and Nansha islands.
> 
> China to use drones to enhance marine surveillance - People's Daily Online



Dont have you more photos ? with big war ships ? China's claim is baseless and illegal. Kido bullying.


----------



## Viet

ChinaToday said:


> you tell me according to this International law of the sea falkland belong to argentina or britian



Don´t mix up one thing with the other. There are a lot of similar cases in the world not only the one you mention. Have a look on the world map, and see who are the owners of all the small islands the Pacific and Atlantic, mostly the Super Powers: the US, Britain, French, etc...

Anyway, first, Falkland islands locate more than 250 nautical miles east of the coast of mainland South America and surely do not lie in the territorial waters of Argentina.
Second, the British re-asserted sovereignty over Falklands in 1832. End of the story.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Minjitta

I guess gulf of Mexico belong to Mexico?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Fanling Monk

EastSea said:


> Dont have you more photos ? with big war ships ? China's claim is baseless and illegal. Kido bullying.




There's no need for warships in SCS, &#26432;&#40481;&#28937;&#29992;&#29275;&#20992; or anywhere. We reserve those to defend our motherland against the Mighty One. However if you insist on seeing more pictures, I got an interest one here:








Don't be afraid, we have a no-shoot-first policy with you guys.


----------



## Minjitta

Nice plane does it come with batteries

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

@Fanling Monk

am I blind?
I see rockets duplicated? And why are they all red?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NiceGuy

Fanling Monk said:


> There's no need for warships in SCS, &#26432;&#40481;&#28937;&#29992;&#29275;&#20992; or anywhere. We reserve those to defend our motherland against the Mighty One. However if you insist on seeing more pictures, I got an interest one here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't be afraid, we have a no-shoot-first policy with you guys.


Oh, very nice pic from 'photoshop' army, so, we're sucking oil inside your cow's tongue now, what can you do to us ?? do you have the guts to fight with our amry ??

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## EastSea

Minjitta said:


> I guess gulf of Mexico belong to Mexico?



Is Indian ocean belong to India ?

In ancient time Chinese called our East Sea: Jiao Zhi Sea, &#20132; &#22336; &#27915; the Sea belong to Jiao Zhi people (Vietnamese).

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

The Beijing´s September agreement this year states clear: the future sea border between the VN-CN will base on international laws!

*That means China has abandoned the absurd 9-dash-line claim.*


----------



## Viet

Legal Basis of Vietnam's Claims

*THE SPRATLYS: LEGAL BASIS OF THE CLAIM OF THE SOCIALIST REPUBLIC OF VIETNAM*

ATTY. MANUEL J. LASERNA JR.
Professor of Law, Far Eastern University (FEU) Institute of Law, Manila

*INTRODUCTION*

This paper will limit itself to the legal basis of the claim of the Socialist Republic of Vietnam to the Spratlys. It will not discuss the legal positions of the other state-claimants. In addition, the author will discuss the geography of the Paracels and the Spratlys, the islands controlled by the individual state-claimants, recent political developments in relation to the Spratlys, and the legal position of the Republic of the Philippines. The author relied heavily on the following primary materials published by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Vietnam:

1. White Paper on the Hoang Sa (Paracel) and Truong Sa (Spratly) Islands. Saigon: Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Republic of Vietnam, 1975.

2. Vietnam's Sovereignty Over the Hoang Sa and Truong Sa Archipelagoes. Hanoi: Information and Press Department, Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Socialist Republic of Vietnam, 1979.

3. The Hoang Sa and Truong Sa Archipelagoes: Vietnamese Territories. Hanoi: Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Socialist Republic of Vietnam, 1981.

4. Dossier: The Hoang Sa and Truong Sa Archipelagoes (Paracels and Spratly), Part I and Part II. Hanoi: Vietnam Courier, 1981.

5. Situation of the Paracels and Spratly at the End of 1993. An unpublished listing of islands in the Paracels and the Spratlys. Manila: Embassy of the Socialist Republic of Vietnam, 1999.
*
GEOGRAPHY: PARACELS AND SPRATLYS*






The Paracels and the Spratlys are located in the South China Sea.
The Vietnamese call the Spratlys "Truong Sa". They call the Paracels "Huong Sa". China calls the Spratlys "Nansha" and the Paracels "Xisha". The Philippines calls the Spratlys the "Kalayaan Group of Islands" (or "Freedomland").
The Spratlys is a group of small islands, reefs, shoals and cays located between 8 degrees and 11 degrees, 40 minutes North latitude. It is located 250 miles from Cam Ranh Bay, 280 miles from Pahn Thiet, and 210 kilometers from Hon Hai ( all located in Vietnam).
In relation to the other major claimants, the distances of the Spratlys are as follows:
* To Hainan Island (China) 580 miles
* To Palawan (Philippines) 310 miles
* To Taiwan 900 miles

The Spratlys contains nine (9) islands of relatively significant size:
1. Truong Sa or Spratly Island proper
2. An Bang or Amboyna Cay
3. Sinh Tonh or Sin Cowe
4. Thai Binh or Itu-Aba
5. Thi Tu
6. Loai Ta
7. Song Tu Tay or South West Cay
8. Song Tu Dong or North East Cay

The Spratlys links the Pacific Ocean and the Indian Ocean. All its islands are coral, low and small, about 5 to 6 meters above water, spread over 160,000 to 180,000 square kilometers of sea zone (or 12 times that of the Paracels), with a total land area of 10 square kilometers only. The Paracels also has a total land area of 10 square kilometers spread over a sea zone of 15,000 to 16,000 square kilometers.

Vietnamese ancient history treated both the Paracels and the Spratlys as one entity. Due to advances in the sciences of navigation and geography, such group is now divided into two as the Paracels and the Spratlys.

The ancient Vietnamese names for the Paracels and the Spratlys (as a group) are:
1. Bai Cat Vang (Golden Sandbank)
2. Hoang Sa
3. Van Ly Hoang Sa
4. Dai Truong Sa
5. Van Ly Truong Sa
*
THE CLAIMANTS AND THE ISLANDS UNDER THEIR CONTROL*

Vietnam claims the whole of the Paracels and the Spratlys as part of its national territory.

In the Spratlys, *Vietnam *controls 21 islands, reefs, shoals, and cays:

1. Da Lat (Ladd Reef)
2. Dao Truong Sa (Spratly Island)
3. Da Tay (West London Reef)
4. Da Giua (Central London Reef)
5. Da Dong (East London Reef)
6. Dao An Bang (Amboyan Reef)
7. Thuyen Chai (Barque Canada Reef)
8. Da Phan Vinh (Pearson Reef)
9. Bai Toc Tan (Alison Reef)
10. Da Nui Le (Cornwallis South Reef)
11. Da Tien Nu (Tennent Reef)
12. Da Lon (Great Discovery Reef)
13. Da Len Dao (Landsdowne Reef)
14. Da Hi Gen
15. Dao Sinh Ton (Sin Cowe Island)
16. Da Gri-san
17. Dao Nam Yet (Namyit Island)
18. Dao Son Ca (Sand Cay)
19. Da Nui Thi (Petley Reef)
20. Dao Song Tu Tay (South West Cay)
21. Da Nam (South Reef)

The *Philippines *control the following islands in the Spratlys:

1. Dao Song Tu Dong (Parola or North East Cay)
2. Dao Dua (Ben Lac) (Likas or West York Island)
3. Dao Thi Tu (Pag-asa or Thitu Island)
4. Dao Binh Nguyen (Patag or Flat Island)
5. Dao Vinh Vien (Lawak or Nansham Island)
6. Dao Cong Do (Rizal or Commodore Reef)
7. Con San Ho Lan Can (Panata or Lamkian Cay)
8. Dao Loai Ta (Kota or Loaita Island)

*China *controls the following islands in the Spratlys:

1. Da Chu Thap (Fiery Cross Reef)
2. Da Chau Vien (Cuarteron Reef)
3. Da Gac Ma (Johnson Reef)
4. Da Hu-go (Hughes Reef)
5. Da Gaven (Gaven Reef)
6. Da Su-bi (Subi Reef)
7. Mischief Reef

*Malaysia *controls the following islands in the Spratlys:

1. Da Ky Van (Mariveles Reef or Terumbu Mantanani)
2. Da Kieu Ngua (Ardasier Reef or Terumbu Ubi)
3. Da Hoa Lau (Swallow Reef or Terumbu Layang)

*Taiwan *controls Dao Ba Binh island (Itu Aba Island or Taiping Dao Island).
*
VIETNAMESE LEGAL POSITION*

An 1838 Vietnamese map by Phan Huy Chu entitled Dai Nam Nhat Thong Toan Do mentioned the Spratlys under the name Van Ly Truong Sa as part of Vietnamese national territory. The ancient name of Vietnam was "The Kingdom of Annam."

Other ancient maps relied on by Vietnam are the following:
1. "Toan Tap Thien Nam Tu Chi Lao Do Thu" (Route Map from the Capital to the Four Directions), 17th century, prepared by Do Ba Aka Cong Dao. It depicts the Paracels and the Spratlys as part of Quang Ngai District, Quang Nam province of Vietnam.
2. "Giap Ngo Binh Nam Do," circa 1774, prepared by Bui The Dat.
3. "Phu Bien Tap Luc," 18th century, prepared by Le Qui Don (1726-1784). It also shows the Paracels and the Spratlys as part of Quang Ngai district.
4. "Dai Nam Nhat Thong Toan Do", a Vietnamese Atlas, 1838.
5. "Dai Nam Nhat Thong Chi", 1882, a book written under the Nguyen Dynasty (1802-1945), which showed the Paracels and the Spratlys as part of Quang Nai province.
In 1852 France colonized the southern part of Vietnam, called Cochinchina.

In 1933 the Spratlys were "incorporated into the French colony of Cochinchina". France took "official possession of the islands." Three French ships, the Alerte, Astrabale, and De Lanessa, visited the Spratlys and officially declared the following islands as French territory:

1. Spratly Island
2. Amboine Caye
3. Bombay Castle Shallows
4. Fiery Cross (or Investigation)
5. Cape Pedaran
6. London Reefs
7. Itu Aba
8. Tizard Bank
9. Loaita Bank
10. Thi Thu Reef
11. North Latrang
12. North Danger

After taking possession of the Spratlys, the French Ministry of Foreign Affairs published a notice in the French Journal Official, dated July 26, 1933 (page 7837).
Notice of occupation was made by France to interested countries on July 24 to September 25, 1933. Except for Japan, "no state xxx raised any protest." Three powers "remained silent xxx: the United States (occupying the Philippines), China, and the Netherlands (then occupying Indonesia) xxx."

Japan protested the notice of occupation made by France on the ground that in the past Japanese companies had exploited phosphate on some of the islands. Vietnam claims that such exploitation was made without permission from France and that Japan had not attempted to take possession of the Spratlys in the concept of an owner.

The French Governor-General of Indochina "signed Decree No. 4762-CP, dated December 12, 1933, making the Spratlys part of the Cochinchina province of Ba-Ria" (now Phuoc Tuy province).

In 1934 France conducted a "geographic and geological study" of the Spratlys.
In 1938 the Indochina Meteorological Service set up a weather station on Itu-Aba island which remained under French control from 1938 to 1941. When World War II erupted in 1941 Japan took control of said weather station.
In 1939 the Japanese military government announced its decision to take possession of the Spratlys. France protested on April 4, 1939 when Japan announced it had placed the Spratlys "under its jurisdiction." In 1941 Japan forcibly took over the islands as part of its World War II strategy.

During the last War, France defended the Spratlys from Japanese military forces.
In the 1951 "San Francisco Peace Treaty" Japan relinquished all titles and claims to the Paracel Islands and the Spratlys Islands.

After the Japanese defeat in 1945, France "returned Cochinchina to Vietnam xxx. Thereafter, Vietnamese sovereignty over the Truong Sa Islands faced claims from other countries in the area (whose) military occupied some of the islands of the archipelago."
Vietnam claims that in 1939 the British Ministry of Foreign Affairs had declared "that France exercised full sovereignty over the Spratly Archipelago."

In 1949 Vietnam "inherited" from France all former French rights over the Paracel Islands and the Spratlys Islands.

Vietnam emphasizes "actual exercise of sovereignty over mere geographic contiguity" as a basic ground for its claim.

Rebutting the claim of the Philippines, Vietnam states in its official White Paper, thus:

x x x.

Since the United States did not act (in 1933) where a Philippine claim could have been made, this indicates that there was no ground for a challenge of French rights on behalf of the Philippines. It was only 35 years later (1968) after the French took possession of the Spratly Islands that Philippine troops, taking advantage of the war situation in the Republic of Vietnam, surreptitiously occupied some islands in the Vietnamese archipelago (Loai Ta, Thi Tu, and Song Tu Dong).

x x x.

Vietnam claims that the following four World War II basic documents on territorial settlements do not contain any clause contrary to the sovereignty of Vietnam over the Paracel Islands and the Spratly Islands, to wit:

1. 1951 San Francisco Peace Treaty
2. 1943 Cairo Declaration
3. 1945 Yalta Agreement
4. 1945 Potsdam Declaration

Vietnam also claims that the Peace Treaty between the Republic of China (Taiwan) and Japan on April 28, 1952 merely repeated the 1951 San Francisco Peace Treaty and that it did not mention any country in favor of which Japan renounced its claim during World War II.
Vietnam brands as erroneous the Philippine theory that the Spratly Islands were "res nullius" when Tomas Cloma "pretended to 'discover' the Vietnamese Truong Sa islands in 1956". Cloma named the islands "Freedomland" or "Kalayaan". It covers most of the Spratlys.
In May 1956, "after Cloma created his so-called 'Freedomland', the French charge d'affaires in Manila xxx reminded the Philippine government of the French rights resulting from the 1933 occupation."

In 1956 France completed its troops withdrawal from Indochina.

From 1956 to 1963, Vietnamese naval troops built "sovereignty steles" in the Spratlys:
1. August 1956 - cruiser Tuy Dong
(HQ-4)
2. 1961 - cruisers Dan Kiel and

Van Dan landed on Song Tu Tay (SouthWest Cay), Thi Tu, Loai Ta, An Bang.
3. 1962 - cruisers Tuy Dong and Tay Kiet landed on Truong Sa (Spratly Island proper) and Nam Ai (Nam Yit).
4. 1963 - all sovereignty steles were rebuilt by cruisers Hung Giang and Chi Lang.

Vietnam assails China for its repeated refusal to accede to France's suggestion to resolve the Paracel and Spratly issues thru the international court. On August 24, 1951 China attacked French and Philippine claims on the Spratlys which China considered as "outposts of Chinese territories."

On June 8, 1956 Taiwan sent troops to occupy Thai Binh Island (Itu Aba). It is the largest island in the Spratlys. Vietnam claims that "as late as December 1973, the Far Eastern Economic Review of Hongkong reported that a marker still stood there with the inscription: 'France - Ile Itu Aba et Dependences - 10 Aout 1933."

Vietnam claims that since 1956 it has publicly reiterated thru public announcements and press statements worldwide its sovereignty over the Spratlys. It argues that during the negotiation for the 1951 San Francisco Peace Conference, its Foreign Minister Vu Van Mau of the Republic of Vietnam reaffirmed Vietnam's rights over the Spratlys which China and the Philippines did not challenge.

It claims that on June 28, 1974 during the conference on the United Nations Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) in Caracas it reaffirmed its sovereignty over the Paracels and the Spratlys.
It reminds the Philippines that on July 13, 1971 during the Asia Pacific (ASPAC) Conference in Manila, the Republic of Vietnam, thru its Foreign Minister Tran Van Lam, "reaffirmed Vietnamese sovereignty" over the Paracels and the Spratlys.

Vietnam believes that the Spratlys issue "must be settled in accordance with international law and the Charter of the United Nations."

The most aggressive claimant in the region is China. In 1909 it seized some islands in Xisha (the Paracels). In 1946 it seized Itu Aba (in the Spratlys) and Phu Lan Island (in the Paracels). In 1950's it seized additional Hoang Sa (Paracels) islands, which it forcibly repeated in 1974. Vietnam claims that these acts were unlawful and that the United States in 1974 conspired with China for the take-over of the Paracels.

Assailing China for its allegedly ulterior goal of converting the whole of the South China Sea as a huge "communist Chinese lake", Vietnam stated in its White Paper, thus:

x x x.

The islands , islets, shoals and banks that the People's Republic of China claims as 'the outposts of Chinese territory' cover the entire South China Sea, and would virtually convert the whole sea into a communist Chinese lake.

x x x.

*PHILIPPINE LEGAL POSITION
*
Presidential Decree No. 1596 claims title to the Kalayaan Group of Islands.
The Philippine Government registered its claim with the United Nations Secretariat on May 20, 1980, with a technical description of Kalayaan.

Kalayaan was "discovered" by Tomas Cloma, a Filipino seafarer, between 1947 to 1956, and named it Freedom Land. Cloma ceded his rights to the Philippine Government, which created a municipality out of it as part of Palawan province. Kalayaan is located 400 kilometers west of Palawan and is made up of 53 islands, reefs cays, and shoals.

The Philippines bases its claim to the Spratlys on the legal principles of "discovery" and "occupation" (exercise of sovereignty and jurisdiction). It claims that the Kalayaan was res nullius when "discovered" by Cloma.

The first ever attempt of the Philippines to claim ownership of the Spratly Islands was in 1947 when, shortly after independence in 1946, it demanded that the "New Southern Islands" which were occupied by Japan during the Second World War be given to the Philippines.
A Filipino political scientist, Prof. Estrella D. Solidum, has done an extensive study on the Spratlys issue on the occasion of the 1998 Philippine Centennial Independence Celebration, which this researcher quotes extensively, thus:

x x x.

In 1956, Filipino navigator Tomas Cloma asserted ownership over the Spratly Island Group by issuing a "Proclamation to the Whole World." Ownership was claimed based on discovery and occupation of the territory, which Cloma re-named "Freedomland," consisting of 33 islands of sand cays, sand bars, coral reefs, and fishing grounds involving an area of 64,976 square miles.
xxx In 1971, the Philippine Government sent a diplomatic note to Taipei demanding that the Chinese garrison on Itu Aba, the largest island in the group, be immediately withdrawn. The Note argued that the garrison constituted a threat to the security of the Philippines, which had a legal claim to the island through discovery and occupation, and which island group was within the archipelagic territory of the Philippines. It further argued that the garrison was not called for, because Chinese occupation (of) some of the islands represented only de facto trusteeship of said islands on behalf of the World War II allies.

In 1974, the Philippine government declared that it had garrisoned five of the islands. On 11 June 1978, President Marcos issued Presidential Decree 1596, placing most of the islands, cays, shoals, and reefs within Philippine territory and naming them collectively as the Kalayaan Island Group. Some Filipino nationals have settled there, even with a local government established in one of the islands. The Philippine has possession of seven islands. These have been integrated as a municipality of the province of Palawan. Another Presidential Decree was issued on the same date as PD 1596, PD 1599, proclaiming a 200-mile exclusive economic zone for the Philippines x x x.

The present claimants to the Spratlys are the following countries: the People's Republic of China, Republic of China (Taiwan), both claiming historic rights since the Yuan Dynasty before the 1400s; Malaysia which in 1980 claimed that is continental shelf extends as far as the Spratlys and even part of the Palawan islands; Brunei; and the Philippines whose claim to sovereignty appears on Tomas Cloma's occupation proclamation in 1956. The Philippine has claimed that the Spratlys are a case of territorium nullius, a territory over which there is no effective sovereignty and is thus open to occupation and ownership.

xxx

(A)lthough the Philippines is the latest of all active claimants, it may be the first to make an assertion of title and to take actions to support its claims for ownership and sovereignty.
The legal grounds for the Philippine claim as stated in Presidential Decree 1596 are 1) the islands are part of the continental margin of the Philippine archipelago; 2) the islands do no belong to any state and the Philippine has made effective occupation; and 3) claims by other states had lapsed because of abandonment.

x x x 

Several proposals have been made for the peaceful use of the Spratlys but the particular suggestion of China for the joint development has been based on assumed acknowledgment by others of its sovereignty over the Spratlys.

x x x.

Former Ambassador Rodolfo Arizala, in a legal article, has criticized the apparent confusion or lack of coherence in the legal stance and international strategy of the Philippines in relation to its claim in the Spratlys, thus:

x x x.

Despite the existence of Presidential decree No. 1596 declaring the Kalayaan Group as part of the Philippine territory; the reservation we made at Montengo Bay, Jamaica in 1982, concerning Kalayaan Islands; and the various Executive Orders issued on the subject mentioned above[1], it appears we do not have yet a clear and consistent concept regarding the nature of our claim in the Spratlys in so far as Kalayaan Island Group is concerned. x x x.
However, if we consider now that Mischief or Panganiban Reef is part of our exclusive economic zone (EEZ), then it weakens our claim that the Kalayaan Island Group is part of our national territory because we admit that we not own said territory. For under Article 58 of the UNCLOS, the exclusive economic zone (EEZ) is considered part of the high seas and "no State may validly purport to subject any part of the high seas to its sovereignty, according to Article 87 of the same Convention. We have no absolute right to prohibit or hinder the passage of foreign vessels as well as the building of structures in the area due to "freedom of navigation" and other freedoms guaranteed in Article 87 of the UNCLOS.

x x x.

In view of all the foregoing, it appears advisable that the Philippines articulate in clear language whether it considers the Mischief or Panganiban Reef and the Kalayaan Island Group as part of its exclusive economic zone or of its territory as stated in Presidential Decree No. 1596 and the reservation No. 4 of the Declaration made by the Philippines on 10 December 1982 at Montengo Bay, Jamaica. If in the latter case, (claim of sovereignty as owner), the Philippines should show that it has legal and valid title and it exercises effective acts of sovereignty recognized by international law. x x x.
*
REVIEW OF PHILIPPINE RELATIONS WITH
CHINA, ASEAN, AND EUROPE ON THE SPRATLYS ISSUE
*
The Philippine-Chinese controversy over the Spratlys erupted during the term of Pres. Fidel V. Ramos and has continued during the present term of Pres. Joseph Ejercito Estrada.
A Filipino international relations professor, Benito Lim, has made a recent study of the effects of the Spratlys issue on Philippine-Chinese relations, which this researcher quotes extensively, thus:

x x x.

The most controversial issue between the Philippines and China during the Ramos administration centered on rival claims on the Spratlys islands west of Palawan. Purported Chinese fishermen kept coming to the islets, as installations have been already built on some of the Kalayaan island group claimed by the Philippines. This occurred even after an agreement was signed during President Ramos' state visit to the P.R.C. The agreement stated that both countries would shelve the sovereignty issue, and adhere to the ASEAN Manila Declaration enjoining all claimants in the Spratlys to settle their conflicting claims peacefully.
The P.R.C. occupation of Panganiban Reef (Mischief) in the Kalayaan Islands, discovered in early 1995, the recurrent entry of Chinese patrol boats and fishing vessels, and the attempted occupation of the Scarborough Shoal, have not only engaged the attention of the Ramos government but have led to confrontational behavior that marked Philippine-P.R.C. diplomacy over the spratlys. 

x x x.

x x x.

xxx

(O)fficials from the Department of Foreign Affairs xxx have managed to convince the Chinese to sign a Code of Conduct agreement on the procedure and protocol in future actions in the Spratlys. xxx. The Code has become the current basis for resolving differences between the two countries.

x x x.

Unless all claimants give thought to an agreement or a protocol detailing more binding and realistic means of conserving and sharing these resources, the agenda of all claimants on sovereignty may harden, deterring all future negotiations.

x x x.

The Ramos administration xxx has achieved a milestone in initiating the Code of Conduct. x x x.
x x x.

Prof. Lim made a more recent inventory (1998) of the islands controlled by each of the claimants, thus:

China, Taiwan and Vietnam claim all the islands in the Spratlys. The Philippines essentially claims only the western section of the Spratlys, or the Kalayaan Island Group, an assortment of about 51 islands, islets, reef, shoals, cays, and rocks, depending whether it is high or low tide, the group is nearest to Palawan but which also contains most of the larger islands in the archipelago. Malaysia claims only three islands it presently occupies, as well as Amboyna Cay which is held by Vietnam. Brunei has staked its claim to Louisa Reef, one of the Southern Shoals of the Spratlys which is underwater. Vietnam occupies 25 islands with its main base on Spratly Island (Truong Sa). The Philippine holds eight islands with its base on Thi'tu Island (Pag-Asa). China holds eight islands. Malaysia has three and has opened Shallow Reef (Torumbu Layang-Layang). Taiwan holds Itu Aba, the largest of the islands.

x x x

The issue of ownership was raised with the P.R.C. when Senator Salvador Laurel visited China in March 1972.

x x x.

Indonesia, a non-claimant state, believes that it is possible to bring the claimant states together to resolve their conflicts peacefully and renounce the use of force to settle their claims. Indonesia has hosted several conferences to discuss the problems and find peaceful solutions. ASEAN also adopted the Manila Declaration of 1992 by which the claimants agreed to settle conflicts peacefully.

Another Filipino international relations professor, Alma Ocampo-Salvador, has conducted a study on Philippine-European relations in relation to the Spratlys issue, which this researcher quotes, thus:

x x x.

Through ASEAN, the Philippines has been engaged in political dialogue with the European Union most actively under the Ramos government. The structures available for political dialogue include the ASEAN-E.U. Ministerial Meetings where regional issues such as the Spratly islands conflict have been addressed, at one time resulting in the issuance by the E.U. of a declaration in support of a peaceful resolution of the problem. Regional issues are also discussed within the framework of the ASEAN Regional Forum where the E.U. ministers participate in the discussion of security issues along with other ASEAN dialogue partners such as the United States, Russia and China.
x x x.

x x x.

*CONCLUSION*

The consensus among the Asean members is to peacefully resolve the Spratlys issue within the Asean mechanism and/or multilaterally among the claimants themselves and not to internationalize the issue by involving nuclear powers which are remotely affected by the issue, such as the United States. This is a correct approach which coincides with Asian values.
There is a general agreement among the claimants to explore the concept of joint-venture type of economic development of the Spratlys. This is warranted by the current economic crisis facing the region.

Vietnam, like the Philippines, is ready to settle the issue peacefully in accordance with international law and the Charter of the United Nations. Other claimants assume the same attitude. What is needed, though, is a series of confidence-building measures among them to inspire them to sit before the negotiating table and resolve the issue amicably, with one goal in mind: regional and world stability, peace and prosperity.

Paracel and Spratly Islands Forum: Legal Basis of Vietnam's Claims

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## WuMaoCleverbot

Viet said:


> *
> GEOGRAPHY: PARACELS AND SPRATLYS*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Paracels and the Spratlys are located in the South China Sea.
> The Vietnamese call the Spratlys "Truong Sa". They call the Paracels "Huong Sa". China calls the Spratlys "Nansha" and the Paracels "Xisha". The Philippines calls the Spratlys the "Kalayaan Group of Islands" (or "Freedomland").
> The Spratlys is a group of small islands, reefs, shoals and cays located between 8 degrees and 11 degrees, 40 minutes North latitude. It is located 250 miles from Cam Ranh Bay, 280 miles from Pahn Thiet, and 210 kilometers from Hon Hai ( all located in Vietnam).
> In relation to the other major claimants, the distances of the Spratlys are as follows:
> * To Hainan Island (China) 580 miles
> * To Palawan (Philippines) 310 miles
> * To Taiwan 900 miles
> 
> 
> Paracel and Spratly Islands Forum: Legal Basis of Vietnam's Claims





China is 1000 miles away from Spratly of the Philippines
Taiwan is 800 Miles away
Philippines is 163 miles away and within 200 Nautical Miles Economic zone accoring to UNCLOS
Vietnam more than 200 Miles
Malaysia- Is just within their 200 Miles but overlapping as they enter to the Philippine Waters
Brunei - Expected to have 200 NMEEZ a favor from UNCLOS 
Indonesia - Expected to have 200 NMEEZ a favor from UNCLOS

Distances of spratly islands to the claimant


----------



## WuMaoCleverbot

Found this:

*West Philippine Sea*

The Spratlys Archipelago 

The Spratlys disputed Islands is 90% within 200 Nautical Miles Exclusive Economic Zone of the Philippines and is located in the West Philippines Sea or also known as South China Sea.

At the moment the Spratlys Archipelago is administered by the Philippines; the adjacent country of which supposed to be governed by the Sultanate State of Sulu, the Original territorial owner of the Spratlys Archipelago but loosen its power to govern the territory and just transferred its territorial rights to the government of the Philippines in 1960's.

The Spratlys is severely contested by some other claimants such as Brunei, Taiwan, China, Vietnam, Malaysia and Indonesia. Prior to the application of the UNCLOS or United Nations Convention on Laws of Sea to solve the disputes, only the Philippines, Vietnam and China are contesting ownership to the archipelago but after the UNCLOS was introduce to solve the disputes, the 200 Nautical Miles Exclusive Economic Zone of the neighboring countries applied and it triggered Brunei and other countries to claim their part.

China and Taiwan's claim for Spratlys is not according to the UNCLOS but based on what they believe that they owned as they mapped the Spratlys as an archipelago that they named and known back to the old kingdoms in the ancient story.

China recently become aggressive in its claim of the Spratlys as it is believed to have the huge deposit of Oil and Gas in line with the Arabian Gulf.

The Spratlys Archipelago is comprised of less than five square kilometers of land area, spread over more than 400,000 square kilometers of sea. The Spratlys, as they are called, are part of the three archipelagos of the South China Sea, comprising more than 30,000 islands and reefs and which so complicates geography, governance and economics in that region of Southeast Asia. Such small and remote islands have little economic value in themselves, but are important in establishing international boundaries. There are no native islanders but there are rich fishing grounds and initial surveys indicate the islands may contain significant oil and gas.

About 45 islands are occupied by relatively small numbers of military forces from the People's Republic of China, the Republic of China (Taiwan), Malaysia, the Philippines, and Vietnam. Brunei has claimed an *EEZ* in the southeastern part of the Spratlys.

*Exclusive Economic Zone, under the law of the sea, an EEZ is a sea zone over which a state has special rights over the exploration and use of marine resources.

The Disputed Spratlys is within the Philippine Waters. The Philippines is the legal owner of the islands in the Spratlys as it is within 200 Nautical Mile Exclusive Economic Zone said United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS)

THE PHILIPPINES AND THE ARCHIPELAGIC DOCTRINE

Archipelago is defined as a sea or part of a sea studded with islands, often synonymous with island groups, or as a large group of islands in an extensive body of water, such as sea. (De Leon, 1991)

In various conferences of the United Nations on the Law of the Sea, the Philippines and other archipelago states proposed that an archipelagic state composed of groups of islands forming a state is a single unit, with the islands and the waters within the baselines as internal waters. By this concept (archipelagic doctrine), an archipelago shall be regarded as a single unit, so that the waters around, between, and connecting the islands of the archipelago, irrespective of their breadth and dimensions, form part of the internal waters of the state, subject to its exclusive sovereignty.

Despite the opposition of maritime powers, the Philippines and four other states (Indonesia, Papua New Guinea, Fiji and Bahamas) got the approval in the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea held in Jamaica last December 10, 1982. They were qualified as archipelagic states. The archipelagic doctrine is now incorporated in Chapter IV of the said convention. It legalizes the unity of land, water and people into a single entity

The Philippines bolstered the archipelagic principle in defining its territory when it included in Article 1 of the 1987 Constitution the following:

"The national territory comprises the Philippine Archipelago, with all the islands and waters embraced therein xxx"; and

"The waters around, between and connecting the islands of the archipelago, regardless of their dimensions, form part of the internal waters of the Philippines."

On the strength of these assertions, the Philippines Archipelago is considered as one integrated unit instead of being divided into more than seven thousand islands. The outermost of our archipelago are connected with straight baselines and all waters inside the baselines are considered as internal waters. This makes the large bodies of waters connecting the islands of the archipelago like Mindanao Sea, Sulo Sea and the Sibuyan Sea part of the Philippines as its internal waters, similar to the rivers and lakes found within the islands themselves.

The archipelagic principle however is subject to the following limitations:

a) respect for the right of the ship and other states to pass through the territorial as well as archipelagic waters

b) respect to right of innocent passage

c) respect for passage through archipelagic sea lanes subject to the promulgation by local authorities of pertinent rules and regulations.

The Philippines & the Spratly Islands History- Srivijaya Empire in 1400 (The Sultanate State of Sulu)

Back to Majapahit and Sri Vijaya Empire in year 7000 or 7th century (The ancient kingdom in Indonesia and Malay Archipelago) the territory is extended from the North Borneo, Palawan, and the Spratlys of the Philippines' territory.

The Sultanate State of Sulu was established during that regime which area includes Part of Mindanao (Cotabato, Lanao, Zamboanga Peninsula), Basilan, Sulu Sea, and Sulu.

During the 14 century or year 1400 the King /Sultan of Brunei give as gift to his cousin Sultan of Sultanate of Sulu the North Borneo, Palawan and the Spratlys for helping him to win a battle. The China recognized the Sultanate State of Sulu that includes the North Borneo, Palawan and the Spratlys archipelago.

When the Spain invaded the Philippines in year 1621, the sultanate state of Sulu remains un-conquered but portion of the territory was controlled by Spain including the whole Island of Mindanao, and Palawan.

When the Britain gives independence to Malaysia, North Borneo is under a lease agreement which is until now is recognized by Malaysia was illegally included reason why the Sultan of Sulu calling the Malaysian Government to stop controlling his land North Borneo (Sabah) which is also link to Spratlys.

The Sultan of Sulu turnover his territorial and proprietary rights of the State to the Republic of the Philippines including the Palawan and the Spratlys in 1960s.

Spratlys Islands or Kalayaan Island Group is just within the Philippines' proximity and 200 Nautical Miles Exclusive Economic Zone - under the International Laws Sea - UNCLOS. The Philippines as the closest and archipelagic country of the Spratly island with another Five Asian countries claim the Spratly Islands including - China, Taiwan, Vietnam, Malaysia and Brunei. Disputes among these six parties have led to various minor military skirmishes, the detention of fisherfolk and diplomatic rows in the past three decades.

Control of the Spratlys is important since the region is supposed to contain large deposits of oil, gas, hydrocarbon and mineral resources. The islands are also strategically located in the sea lanes for commerce and transport in the South China Sea which is very close to the Palawan Province of the Philippines with a distant less than 200 nautical miles; a bases that Philippines has a legal ground that those islands are part of the Philippines.

The Spratlys consist of about 26 islands and islets and 7 groups of rocks in the South China Sea found approximately between the latitude of 4 degrees to 11 degrees 30'N. and longitude 109 degrees 30'E. They have a maritime area of 160,000 square kilometers and an insular area of about 170 hectares.

The Spratlys are popular among fishermen. However, they are considered dangerous for commercial navigation. Maps from the early part of the last century have advised seamen to avoid passing through them.

Japan explored the Spratlys for military reasons during World War II. The British Admiralty and U.S. Navy have also ordered some top secret missions there. But the U.S. Navy never released the new charts of the Spratlys to civilian authorities. Writer Francois-Xavier Bonnet wonders about the role of the Spratlys during the Vietnam War.

In 1933 a Philippine senator protested the French annexation of the Spratlys. A parliamentary committee studied the issue but the U.S. government, which controlled the Philippines at that time, did not take an interest in the matter.

In 1946 Vice President Elpidio Quirino claimed the Spratlys on behalf of the Philippine government. A year later, the Philippine Secretary of Foreign Affairs declared that the "New Southern Islands" previously occupied by Japan during World War II were part of Philippine territory.

In 1955 the Philippine military reported that the Spratly island group was of "vital proximity" to the country. The following year, Filipino navigator and businessman Tomas Cloma issued a "proclamation to the whole world" claiming ownership and occupation of the Spratlys. Cloma sent six letters to the government about the need to settle the question of ownership of the islands.

The vice president of the Philippines replied in 1957, assuring Cloma that the government "does not regard with indifference the economic exploitation and settlement of these uninhabited and unoccupied islands by Philippine nationals."

According to Filipino law professor Haydee Yorac, the Cloma Proclamation was the first assertion of title to the Spratlys after Japan renounced its ownership of the islands in 1951 and 1952.

In 1978 President Ferdinand Marcos issued a proclamation declaring ownership of most of the islands in the Spratlys. The area was renamed the Kalayaan (Freedom) Island Group. The proclamation laid the following basis for the Philippine claim: "By virtue of their proximity and as part of the continental margin of the Philippine archipelago"; that "they do not legally belong to any state or nation, but by reason of history; indispensable need, and effective occupation and control established in accordance with international law"; and while other states have laid claims to some of these areas, their claims have lapsed by abandonment and cannot prevail over that of the Philippines on legal, historical, and equitable ground."

In 1995 President Fidel Ramos articulated the Philippine position regarding the Spratlys issue. He said "I would like to clarify that the Philippines does not only claim eight islands in the south China Sea but owns all islands and waters in the Spratlys as defined in the presidential decree issued by former President Marcos."

Militarization of the Spratlys started in the 1970s. The Philippines sent a military contingent to occupy some of the islands in 1971. After four years, the Philippines had already established a military presence in six islands. Today, the Philippines occupies eight islands in the area.

West Philippines Sea » Hikot Online Network


----------



## Viet

Do you want to know the real intention of the Chinese?
Just read it´s website such as this one: People Daily - the official newspaper of the Communist Party of China! 

Enjoy.




> *China's strategy for development of resources in S. China Sea*
> September 19, 2012*
> 
> The United States has taken firm steps to "return to Asia," making it unrealistic to expect the superpower to stay out of the South China Sea issue. However, *China can still deal with or even counterbalance the United States through certain measures, including joining forces with Russia* and enhancing cooperation with U.S. oil companies in developing oil resources in the South China Sea to increase common interests with the United States.
> 
> *Striking down enemies one by one is China's core strategy for dealing with the other five countries that each claim parts of the South China Sea. *As *Indonesia and Brunei's *sovereignty claims have little overlap with China's nine-dotted line, and the two countries have not issued any clear territorial claims, *China can increase investment and support for the two countries.*
> 
> *As for Vietnam, the Philippines, and Malaysia, China can impose economic sanctions against them and restrict imports from the three countries through a variety of trade measures*. If China can bring huge economic losses to these risk takers and weaken the leadership of their ruling parties, these countries will definitely return to the negotiating table. The real victory in safeguarding territorial waters and natural resources is not defeating enemies, but intimidating them into not initiating a vicious game with China over oil and gas resources in the South China Sea in the first place.
> 
> 
> China's strategy for development of resources in S. China Sea (2) - People's Daily Online

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

So after Japan, China would target Vietnam, the Philippines, and Malaysia?
They officially call us *enemy*.

Great!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

Vietnam (Dai Viet and Viet Thuong-Champa) has been controlled Islands from ancient time when Chinese called the Sea "Giao Chi Sea". Giao Chi is the name of Vietnam in ancient time (Kochi in Sout Asia language and Jiaozhi in Han Chinese). Bien Dong is the our name of sea in Vietnamese. 

*Vietnam claimed, controlled continously and peacefully in the past. *It's legal evidence. Map of Dai Viet 1834 is stating the Islands belong to Vietnam.


----------



## Fanling Monk

*China's South China Sea Fleet holds anti-submarine training*


































*A destroyer flotilla under the South China Sea Fleet of the Navy of the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) conducted an anti-submarine training recently, in a bid to temper the anti-submarine capability of the troops.*

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## EastSea

*Robbers are still bullying, let they go to hell .*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Fanling Monk

Yeah, when China has a defensive naval training, it's call 'robbers' bullying', but when the US had her 22 nation naval drill it's call 'having fun on the beach' with the boys. US hosts world's largest naval exercises in Hawaii - The China Post 

The Hawaii 'Beach Boys' lead by daddy US: Australia, Canada, Chile, Colombia, France, India, Indonesia, Japan, Korea, Malaysia, Mexico, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Peru, Philippines, Russia, Singapore, Thailand, Tonga, the United Kingdom. Someone is missing here.

And how about this week's drill with Thailand along with a invitation to Myanmar too. This is call bullying.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

*US Aircraft Carrier Cruises Disputed Asian Seas*
By CHRIS BRUMMITT Associated Press
HO CHI MINH CITY, Vietnam October 20, 2012 (AP)

America sent a nuclear-powered aircraft carrier on a cruise through the South China Sea on Saturday, projecting its power in waters that are fast becoming a focal point of its strategic rivalry with Beijing.

The USS George Washington's mission could raise hackles in China, which is locked in disputes with Vietnam, the Philippines and other governments over ownership of islands in the region.

It will likely reassure the jittery smaller nations of Washington's support in their tussles with China, whose growing economic and military might is leading to a greater assertiveness in pressing its claims in the South China Sea. The United States is building closer economic and military alliances with Vietnam and other nations in the region as part of a "pivot" away from the Middle East to Asia.

China is also locked in an unexpectedly fierce dispute with American ally Japan over the ownership of islands in the nearby East China Sea. On Friday, Beijing staged military exercises near the islands to demonstrate its ability to enforce its claims.

China claims nearly all of the South China Sea, where the U.S. says it has a national interest in ensuring freedom of navigation in an area crossed by vital shipping lanes. Vietnam, the Philippines and several other Asian nations also claim parts of the sea.

The U.S. Navy regularly patrols the Asia-Pacific region, and the trip by the George Washington off the coast of Vietnam is its second in two years.

A second aircraft carrier, the USS John C. Stennis, is also conducting operations in the western Pacific region, according to the U.S. Pacific Fleet.

"China will take this as another expression by the United States of its desire to maintain regional domination," said Denny Roy, a senior fellow at the East-West Center in Hawaii. "The U.S also wants to send a message to the region that it is here for the long haul .... and that it wants to back up international law."

Vietnam is pleased to accept help from its one-time foe America as a hedge against its giant neighbor China. It has reacted angrily to recent moves by Beijing to establish a garrison on one of the Paracel islands, which Vietnam also claims. The United States also criticized the move by Beijing.

"Vietnam requests China to respect the sovereignty of Vietnam and refrain from taking any other similar wrongdoings," the Foreign Ministry said this month.

While most analysts believe military confrontation in the waters is highly unlikely, they say tensions are likely to increase as China continues pressing its claims and building its navy.

US Aircraft Carrier Cruises Disputed Asian Seas - ABC News

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

*US aircraft carrier cruises disputed Asian seas
*
Oc 20 2012 | thehindubusinessline.com





Carrier USS George Washington

HO CHI MINH CITY (VIETNAM), OCTOBER 20: 
*America sent a nuclear-powered aircraft carrier on a cruise through the South China Sea today, projecting its power in waters that are fast becoming a focal point of its strategic rivalry with Beijing.*

The USS George Washington&#8217;s mission could raise hackles in *China*, which is locked in disputes with Vietnam, the Philippines and other Governments over ownership of islands in the region.

It will likely reassure the jittery smaller nations of Washington&#8217;s support in their tussles with China, whose growing economic and military might is leading to a greater assertiveness in pressing its claims in the South China Sea.

*The US is building closer economic and military alliances with Vietnam* and other nations in the region as part of a &#8220;pivot&#8221; away from West Asia to Asia.

China is also locked in an unexpectedly fierce dispute with American ally *Japan *over the ownership of islands in the nearby East China Sea. On Friday, Beijing staged military exercises near the islands to demonstrate its ability to enforce its claims.

China claims nearly all of the South China Sea, where the US says it has a national interest in ensuring freedom of navigation in an area crossed by vital shipping lanes.

Vietnam, the Philippines and several other Asian nations also claim parts of the sea.

The US Navy regularly patrols the Asia-Pacific region, and the trip by the George Washington off the coast of Vietnam is its second in two years.

A second aircraft carrier, the *USS John C. Stennis*, is also conducting operations in the western Pacific region, according to the US Pacific Fleet.

&#8220;China will take this as another expression by the US of its desire to maintain regional domination,&#8221; said Denny Roy, a senior fellow at the East-West Center in Hawaii.

&#8220;The US also wants to send a message to the region that it is here for the long haul .... and that it wants to back up international law.&#8221;

*Vietnam is pleased to accept help from its one-time foe America as a hedge against its giant neighbour China. It has reacted angrily to recent moves by Beijing to establish a garrison on one of the Paracel islands, which Vietnam also claims.
*
The US also criticised the move by Beijing.

Business Line : News / International : US aircraft carrier cruises disputed Asian seas

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Viet

It´s an open party. Anyone can join.






USS George Washington (CVN 73) Carrier Strike Group formation





the flight deck of the aircraft carrier USS George Washington





USS George Washington





Rocket fired from USS George Washington





An F/A-18C Hornet lands aboard USS George Washington

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

USS George Washington (CVN 73)

121015-N-ZT599-205

121017-N-ZT599-205 SOUTH CHINA SEA (Oct. 17, 2012) A F/A-18E Super Hornet from the &#8220;Royal Maces&#8221; of Strike Fighter Squadron (VFA) 27 conducts an arrested landing on the flight deck of the U.S. Navy&#8217;s forward-deployed aircraft carrier USS George Washington (CVN 73) during routine flight operations. George Washington and its embarked air wing, Carrier Air Wing (CVW) 5, provide a combat-ready force that protects and defends the collective maritime interest of the U.S. and its allies and partners in the Asia-Pacific region. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Seaman Apprentice Brian H. Abel/RELEASED)






121015-N-ZT599-143

121017-N-ZT599-143 SOUTH CHINA SEA (Oct. 17, 2012) F/A-18F Super Hornets from the &#8220;Diamondbacks&#8221; of Strike Fighter Squadron (VFA) 102 prepare to launch on the flight deck of the U.S. Navy&#8217;s forward-deployed aircraft carrier USS George Washington (CVN 73) during routine flight operations. George Washington and its embarked air wing, Carrier Air Wing (CVW) 5, provide a combat-ready force that protects and defends the collective maritime interest of the U.S. and its allies and partners in the Asia-Pacific region. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Seaman Apprentice Brian H. Abel/RELEASED)






121015-N-ZT599-152

121017-N-ZT599-152 SOUTH CHINA SEA (Oct. 17, 2012) A F/A-18F Super Hornet from the &#8220;Diamondbacks&#8221; of Strike Fighter Squadron (VFA) 102 launches from the flight deck of the U.S. Navy&#8217;s forward-deployed aircraft carrier USS George Washington (CVN 73) during routine flight operations. George Washington and its embarked air wing, Carrier Air Wing (CVW) 5, provide a combat-ready force that protects and defends the collective maritime interest of the U.S. and its allies and partners in the Asia-Pacific region. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Seaman Apprentice Brian H. Abel/RELEASED)






121015-N-ZT599-157

121017-N-ZT599-157 SOUTH CHINA SEA (Oct. 17, 2012) A F/A-18F Super Hornet from the &#8220;Diamondbacks&#8221; of Strike Fighter Squadron (VFA) 102 launches from the flight deck of the U.S. Navy&#8217;s forward-deployed aircraft carrier USS George Washington (CVN 73) during routine flight operations. George Washington and its embarked air wing, Carrier Air Wing (CVW) 5, provide a combat-ready force that protects and defends the collective maritime interest of the U.S. and its allies and partners in the Asia-Pacific region. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Seaman Apprentice Brian H. Abel/RELEASED)






121015-N-ZT599-201

121017-N-ZT599-201 SOUTH CHINA SEA (Oct. 17, 2012) A F/A-18E Super Hornet from the &#8220;Royal Maces&#8221; of Strike Fighter Squadron (VFA) 27 conducts an arrested landing on the flight deck of the U.S. Navy&#8217;s forward-deployed aircraft carrier USS George Washington (CVN 73) during routine flight operations. George Washington and its embarked air wing, Carrier Air Wing (CVW) 5, provide a combat-ready force that protects and defends the collective maritime interest of the U.S. and its allies and partners in the Asia-Pacific region. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Seaman Apprentice Brian H. Abel/RELEASED)


*Source: Facebook /USS-George-Washington*

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Viet

It´s time to tie closer with Washington!






U.S. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta, left, receives a photo album of his visit to Vietnam from Gen. Vu Chien Thang upon his departure at Noi Bai International Airport in Hanoi, Vietnam Tuesday, June 5, 2012.






Vietnamese Defense Minister Phung Quang Thanh (L front) hosts a welcome ceremony for U.S. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta (C front) in Hanoi, capital of Vietnam, June 4, 2012. Panetta arrived in Vietnam on Sunday, kicking off a three-day visit to the country. (Xinhua/Li Dan)

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## mohamad_india

be ready guys now china will issue warnings and send its power full AC to counter it

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-far-east/198394-south-china-sea-news-discussions-27.html#post3517475

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## mohamad_india

awesome pics


----------



## Viet

mohamad_india said:


> be ready guys now china will issue warnings and send its power full AC to counter it




India as a friend from Vietnam is welcome to send your Carrier to us. As I said previously, it is an open party.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## sweetgrape

Do not exaggerate its influence, that's free international lane, they have done these many times, they always cruise in SCS.
This is a sensitive time, someone hype this just to make new tension on SCS, Maybe USN want to embolden philippine, Viet, just like what they always do, the empty promise!



mohamad_india said:


> be ready guys now china will issue warnings and send its power full AC to  counter it


The US AC not make china nervious, but seems make you exciting first, hehe!



Viet said:


> India as a friend from Vietnam is welcome to send your Carrier to us. As I said previously, it is an open party.


That's a big challenge to india, hehe, kidding!
If India AC can come to SCS, that's a better party, If they can visit to Viet or Philippine with US AC together, that's much better!!


----------



## shuntmaster

When can we expect to see the pics of the PLAN's Liaoning ACC in the SCS? 

How does PLAN Liaoning compares with USS George Washington?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

U.S. Carrier George Washington Goes on Patrol in South China Sea
By Bloomberg News - Oct 20, 2012 10:41 AM GMT+0700

The USS George Washington, the U.S. Navy&#8217;s Yokosuka, Japan-based aircraft carrier, is on patrol in the South China Sea, a U.S. Seventh Fleet spokesman said.
&#8220;This is part of a typical patrol that she conducts throughout the area of operations,&#8221; Seventh Fleet spokesman Anthony Falvo said in a phone interview today. &#8220;We regularly patrol the Asia Pacific, have done so for many years and will continue to do so.&#8221;

U.S. Carrier George Washington Goes on Patrol in South China Sea - Bloomberg

*********************

I'm sure that China did not dare to send any message "you are entering Chinese waters" when U.S. warships patrol SCS. 
But the Chinese love to say "you are entering Chinese waters" with Indian warships in same case.
Why?

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## S10

Nice ships, hopefully China will have fleets like that, preferrably within 20 years.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## yusheng

???????????xzren|2012-10-11_????_????


In Chinese military websites there are several famously known commentators who usually have official or military background and usually firstly issue the first photos and news about new Chinese weapons and new military plans. They have deep and wide effects on Chinese military fans.
Here I translated one of the latest comments for PDF friends, excluding Chinese who can read the original.

Title: United States dare not weaken China at the expense of entire Japan

Powerful nations can not only rely on plots to exist long on this planet. Once unmasked, its superiority will soon finish without actual strength support. It is a time that accumulations of growth and decline of strength is occurring in different countries.

The first strategy United States took against China is military deterrence, however, facing China unyielding reactions, military means to solve China is not a choice, on the contrary, outside military pressure caused rapid Chinese military expanding, and therefore, the present US strategy is to create tension along China. From this respect, China should pay close attention to the situation in Indo-China Peninsula, northwest, and India.

As I said earlier, except some days ago to bombard N. Korean fishing boat, US didnt use this pawn for a while. Now, the missile extended-range specifically tensed the peninsula. The concrete reason of the emerging of S. Korean is that Japanese right-wing dared not to plunge into adventures, and US also does not have the guts to expense Japan now. Even when US deployed two aircraft carriers, the Japanese did not raise its voice; on the contrary, it is China that raised voice, several major generals tried to provocate Japan by talking loudly the issue of Okinawa. Why is Japan so low? Because Japan has seen US has no will now to wage a war against China. That is to say, US will not fight hard in bloody battles to guard the border for Japan. Then it is not surprising the peninsula suddenly become acute.

What Japan can do is based on not only his masters face but also the Japanese political ecology. US is clearly understanding that Japan tried to use US military forces in and around Japan to benefit Japan, so we say that US is in a dilemma: to assemble large scale force in front of China is not a shot term task, what will China do when she see this happen? Only a fool will just sit and watch without any action. Followed by advance provocation and conflict, what will US do then? China will not wait till US gets ready. After all, there are only such two or three lines that US can use to assemble force to enter Asia-Pacific.

Turks shelling Syria is a kind of test; therefore Russia's attitude is very critical and expecting Russia will have no reaction is unrealistic. No news yet but that does not say that there is no action. Sure there will be. And will not be small, will come out tomorrow.
..
Europe and the US have the same original, egoism first. Someone threw slop to China, said Germany poisoning is form Chinese strawberry with the intention to give Germany pressure in the relationship with China. However there is message that China is planning to exhibit hands in the European debt problem, which is clear one is not willing to see.

The same old trick deterrence with force by US is less and less effective, however, practice against Huawei in US, apparently wanted to make a demonstration effect, aiming directly to Chinese economy. China must answer seriously. With the less effective of its military power in the world, its emphasizing to employ smart power" or soft power is actually taking a public conspiracy ". China should deal with it.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

shuntmaster said:


> When can we expect to see the pics of the PLAN's Liaoning ACC in the SCS?
> 
> How does PLAN Liaoning compares with USS George Washington?



Liaoning is a long step of PLAN, 
however, it cannot compare with US aircraft carriers.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## shuntmaster

Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> Liaoning is a long step of PLAN,
> however, it cannot compare with US aircraft carriers.



As per the Chinese fanboys here, Liaoning is next best thing to happen after instant noodles.
What is the use of Liaoning then, if it cannot take on other ACC's? To scare away Vietnamese and Phillippino fishing boats?

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

shuntmaster said:


> As per the Chinese fanboys here, Liaoning is next best thing to happen after instant noodles.
> What is the use of Liaoning then, if it cannot take on other ACC's? *To scare away Vietnamese and Phillippino fishing boats*?



Exactly. Bullying small ASEAN countries that is the only strong point of PLAN.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Minjitta

Chinese don't needed to worried, Chinese leader have said they only fishing boat and bomb to counter US war ships.


----------



## Fanling Monk

*China's South China Sea Fleet holds anti-submarine training*


































*A destroyer flotilla under the South China Sea Fleet of the Navy of the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) conducted an anti-submarine training recently, in a bid to temper the anti-submarine capability of the troops.

*

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Viet

Yahooo...the party can begin!
Did we send out an invitation to Japan Navy already?



*Vietnam Navy*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Fanling Monk

Viet said:


> Yahooo...the party can begin!
> Did *we* send out an invitation to Japan Navy already?




We? You're talking as you're in charged here. The bald eagle doesn't like any two bit bird fly over its head, you know.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

Fanling Monk said:


> We? You're talking as you're in charged here. The bald eagle doesn't like any two bit bird fly over its head, you know.




Are you a speaker of PLA?
Hm...who staged military exercise lately in the dispute area on October 3, although we signed an agreement of Conduct of the Parties in the East Sea (DOC)?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Fanling Monk

Viet said:


> Are you a speaker of PLA?
> Hm...who staged military exercise lately in the dispute area on October 3, although *we signed* an agreement of Conduct of the Parties in the* East Sea *(DOC)?




Hmm....you lost me here, buddy, your 'we' and 'East Sea' is a little confusing for me.


----------



## Viet

Fanling Monk said:


> Hmm....you lost me here, buddy, your 'we' and 'East Sea' is a little confusing for me.




Relax, take a seat, and enjoy the show

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Fanling Monk

Viet said:


> Relax, take a seat, and enjoy the show




Indeed I'm, your tangle with Uncle Sam will be over in a few minutes and the dancing floor belongs to us alone.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Fanling Monk

*China practices stopping "illegal entry" near disputed seas*








(Reuters) - China's navy and civilian maritime patrol vessels practiced on Friday stopping "illegal entry" into Chinese waters in the East China Sea, state media said, an area where Beijing is embroiled in a territorial dispute with Japan.

State news agency Xinhua said the drill was the largest in recent years, made up of 11 vessels, eight aircraft and more than 1,000 sailors.

While the report made no mention of tensions with Japan over a group of uninhabited islands in the East China Sea, it left little doubt the maneuvers were aimed at sending a message to Tokyo.

"The drill included simulations of illegal entry, obstruction, harassment and intentional interference by foreign vessels when Chinese ships of the fishery administration and marine surveillance agency patrolled," Xinhua said.

The exercise, it said, "was aimed at improving coordination between the navy and administrative patrol vessels, as well as sharpening their response to emergencies in order to safeguard China's territorial sovereignty and maritime interests".

Japanese Defense Minister Satoshi Morimoto, quoted by his ministry's Internet site, said he would not comment on the nature or purpose of the exercises.

But he added in comments to reporters: "Regardless of their activities, we remain vigilant in the waters and airspace where our country is in charge."

Chinese fishery patrol ships and Japan's coast guard have faced off in recent weeks in the seas around what China calls the Diaoyu Islands and Japan the Senkaku islands. Taiwan also claims them.

Violent protests and calls for boycotts of Japanese products broke out across China in mid-September after Japan bought some of the islets from their private owner.

China practices stopping illegal entry near disputed seas | Reuters

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Obambam

AFP: Japan, US to cancel island drill: report



> *Japan, US to cancel island drill: report *





> (AFP) *6 hours ago*
> 
> TOKYO  Japan and the US are dropping plans for a joint drill to simulate the retaking of a remote island from foreign forces amid a row between Tokyo and Beijing over a disputed archipelago, a report said.
> 
> The governments are set to cancel the drill as it could provoke further anger from China after a row escalated when Japan last month nationalised some of the disputed islands, also claimed by Beijing, Jiji Press reported late Friday.
> 
> The decision to cancel the drill, which would have involved an island that is not part of the disputed chain, was in line with the views of Prime Minister Yoshihiko Noda's office, the news agency quoted government sources as saying.
> 
> No official was immediately available for comment at the Japanese defence ministry.According to earlier Japanese news reports, the exercise would have been part of broader joint Japan-US manoeuvres due to start in early November.The drill would have used an uninhabited island, Irisunajima, near the main Okinawan island in southern Japan, and would have seen Japanese and US troops make an amphibious and airborne landing, the reports said.
> 
> Like the disputed islands, tiny Irisunajima is also in the East China Sea but hundreds of kilometres (miles) away from the archipelago at the centre of the row between China and Japan.Japan and China have long been at loggerheads over the sovereignty of the rocky outcrops known as the Senkakus in Japan and Diaoyus in China.
> 
> The Tokyo-administered island chain is uninhabited, but the seabed below them is thought to contain valuable natural resources, such as oil.The dispute flared in August and September with landings by nationalists from both sides and the subsequent nationalisation of the islands by Tokyo.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## WS-10 Engine

When the paper tiger USN sees the mighty DF-21D, the yanks will run away just like they did in the Korean War.

All those US navy vessels are nothing but sitting ducks for Chinese missiles. The yanks don't have any counter, none, zero, nothing, zilch.

Our quiet subs will already be stalking noisy American subs just like we did in the past. USN is all show and no substance.
US military is overhyped and overrated.

Our YJ-83 can skull f**k all 11 carrier powderpuff groups in the USN.

Reactions: Like Like:

3


----------



## anon45

WS-10 Engine said:


> When the paper tiger USN sees the mighty DF-21D, the yanks will run away just like they did in the Korean War.
> 
> All those US navy vessels are nothing but sitting ducks for Chinese missiles. The yanks don't have any counter, none, zero, nothing, zilch.
> 
> Our quiet subs will already be stalking noisy American subs just like we did in the past. USN is all show and no substance.
> US military is overhyped and overrated.
> 
> Our YJ-83 can skull f**k all 11 carrier powderpuff groups in the USN.



All fluff no substance to back it up 

Your own leaders call you a liar, we all know you are full of it, you aren't convincing anyone


----------



## SHAMK9

Viet said:


> As I said previously, it is an open party.


Can PN join in?


----------



## Kinetic

Viet said:


> *US aircraft carrier cruises disputed Asian seas
> *
> Oc 20 2012 | thehindubusinessline.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carrier USS George Washington



What a country!! very neighbor is a foe... Japan, Taiwan, Korea, Philippines, India, Vietnam, US... the list goes on.



SHAMK9 said:


> Can PN join in?



What what?


----------



## AUSTERLITZ

Another abolition of the chinese admirality board coming up in case war breaks outala battle of yalu river when japanese torpedo boats destroy chinese fleet of steel battleships due to incompetence of chinese sailors.

In any case the main danger to be posed for the chinese will not only be carriers but japan's very potent submarine force.Add to that USN seawolfs.


----------



## Viet

WS-10 Engine said:


> When the paper tiger USN sees the mighty *DF-21D*, the yanks will run away just like they did in the Korean War.
> 
> All those US navy vessels are nothing but sitting ducks for Chinese missiles. The yanks don't have any counter, none, zero, nothing, zilch.
> 
> Our quiet subs will already be stalking noisy American subs just like we did in the past. USN is all show and no substance.
> US military is overhyped and overrated.
> 
> Our YJ-83 can skull f**k all 11 carrier powderpuff groups in the USN.




Come on man, it is a peaceful barbecue party. Don´t run mad and start a WW III!


----------



## Obambam

anon45 said:


> All fluff no substance to back it up
> 
> Your own leaders call you a liar, we all know you are full of it, you aren't convincing anyone

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Snomannen

Kinetic said:


> What a country!! very neighbor is a foe... Japan, Taiwan, Korea, Philippines, India, Vietnam, US... the list goes on.



China's neighbors: [14+3 (Phi & SK & US)] 
"Foes": [7] (not included Taiwan since Taiwan is not a country)

India's neighbors: [5]
"Foes": [3 + 0.5 (SL?)]

What a country.


----------



## anon45

Obambam said:


> cannot argue my point and so posts a random and irrelevent image.



That it? you may stop posting now


----------



## Obambam

anon45 said:


> That it? you may stop posting now



Boy you take the biscuit 

USS George Washington was based in Japan and last weekend was in the Andaman Sea doing joint maneuvers with the USS John C. Stennis. 

If anyone bothered to look at a map, one would note that the route back to Yokohama from the Andaman Sea goes through the South China Sea. Only a genius like you would send it around Australia for its return home to Japan. Apparently they do not like the idea of carriers ploughing their way through the very very narrow and shallow Torres Strait, which would add many thousands of miles and many more days to the trip. 

Yes, stop your whining and move along. There is nothing '_To See Here_'. It was just a routine carrier transit as it heads to its home port.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Kyusuibu Honbu

KirovAirship said:


> India's neighbors: [5]
> "Foes": [3 + 0.5 (SL?)]



Can you name these 3 foes?

I mean Beside Pakistan and China.



Viet said:


> India as a friend from Vietnam is welcome to send your Carrier to us. As I said previously, it is an open party.



Thank you!

But Indian carrier is primarily meant for Indian Ocean.


----------



## Kloitra

KirovAirship said:


> China's neighbors: [14+3 (Phi & SK & US)]
> "Foes": [7] (not included Taiwan since Taiwan is not a country)
> 
> India's neighbors: [5]
> "Foes": [3 + 0.5 (SL?)]
> 
> What a country.



Correct yourself. India's neighbors: Shares land border with 6, close maritime proximity to 4.
'foes': 2, of which 1 has problem with half its neighbors.


----------



## Snomannen

Syama Ayas said:


> Can you name these 3 foes?
> 
> I mean Beside Pakistan and China.



Mr.Bengal of course.
No? Neither do I, it's based on somebody's logic, not mine.



Kloitra said:


> Correct yourself. India's neighbors: Shares land border with 6, close maritime proximity to 4.
> 'foes': 2, of which 1 has problem with half its neighbors.



Tell this to Kinetic, not me.


----------



## Kloitra

KirovAirship said:


> Tell this to Kinetic, not me.



He is not getting his numbers wrong regarding India. I couldn't even find his comments regarding India.


----------



## Snomannen

Kloitra said:


> He is not getting his numbers wrong regarding India. I couldn't even find his comments regarding India.



I never said that he gets the numbers wrong.


----------



## Snomannen

So here is the second edit, 'out of soebody's logic' edition.

China's neighbors: [14+2 (Phi & SK)]
"Foes": [4 (I,V,J,P)]

India's neighbors: [6+2 (M & SL)] 
"Foes": [2]

What aaaa country.


----------



## Kloitra

KirovAirship said:


> So here is the second edit, 'out of soebody's logic' edition.
> 
> China's neighbors: [14+2 (Phi & SK)]
> "Foes": [4 (I,V,J,P)]
> 
> India's neighbors: [6+2 (M & SL)]
> "Foes": [2]
> 
> What aaaa country.



Out of somebody's logic...
So what the entire world believes, and is true by definition, is someone's logic. And even than you could not properly correct yourself, as India has 4 maritime neighbors, or so the world believe.
I am sure Macao's educational system is better than that, why give it a bad name?


----------



## ARSENAL6

anon45 said:


> All fluff no substance to back it up
> 
> Your own leaders call you a liar, we all know you are full of it, you aren't convincing anyone



Dude Afganistan please deal with Afganistan then come back with that comment


----------



## Esc8781

ARSENAL6 said:


> Dude Afganistan please deal with Afganistan then come back with that comment


Please deal with Iran by yourself please.


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

*Vietnamese officials visit USS George Washington*
21/10/2012 | 13:07:00







A delegation of Vietnamese officials visited the supercarrier USS George Washington on October 20. The visit was made at the invitation of the US Embassy in Vietnam. 

The visit took place during the supercarrier&#8217;s passage through international waters near the country. 

The delegation of Vietnamese officials was introduced to the ship&#8217;s activities and the daily life of its crew members. The two sides held exchanges to increase their mutual understanding. 

This is the third visit of a Vietnamese delegation to the USS George Washington since 2010.-VNA

Vietnamese officials visit USS George Washington -- Vietnam+ (VietnamPlus)

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## anon45

Obambam said:


> Boy you take the biscuit
> 
> USS George Washington was based in Japan and last weekend was in the Andaman Sea doing joint maneuvers with the USS John C. Stennis.
> 
> If anyone bothered to look at a map, one would note that the route back to Yokohama from the Andaman Sea goes through the South China Sea. Only a genius like you would send it around Australia for its return home to Japan. Apparently they do not like the idea of carriers ploughing their way through the very very narrow and shallow Torres Strait, which would add many thousands of miles and many more days to the trip.
> 
> Yes, stop your whining and move along. There is nothing '_To See Here_'. It was just a routine carrier transit as it heads to its home port.



What in the blazes are you talking about? you drunk?  Who denied the George Washington's patrol was routine? It is and will remain so. The Stennis taking its sweet time is not routine, it is a message to China and a message to our allies that the US is not leaving. 2 birds one stone.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

SHAMK9 said:


> Can PN join in?



Do you take any side in the dispute?

If you stay neutral, you may visit us next time. At present we are overcrowded because the Chinese stormed the party. Hopefully they don´t start to riot.


----------



## Viet

anon45 said:


> What in the blazes are you talking about? you drunk?  Who denied the George Washington's patrol was routine? It is and will remain so. The Stennis taking its sweet time is not routine, it is a message to China and a message to our allies that the US is not leaving. 2 birds one stone.





Correct. Ignore the Chinese fool. We made a visit on the USS George Washington on October 20. And the Carrier will make a port call in Manila on October 24, Wednesday. The US is sending a clear message to Beijing. Don't mess with us!




> *US Navy super carrier to visit Manila*
> 
> US USS George Washington Aircraft Carrier US Navy's largest aircraft carriers is scheduled to arrive in Manila Wednesday Oct 24 2012.
> 
> In a press statement, the US Embassy in Manila said the nuclear-powered USS George Washington will visit the Philippines on October 24, Wednesday, "for a goodwill visit that will further enhance the strong historic ties between the United States and the Republic of the Philippines."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US USS George Washington Aircraft supercarrier Arrive Vietnam, Philippines - USS George Washington - Zimbio

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

Obambam said:


> Boy you take the biscuit
> 
> USS George Washington was based in Japan and last weekend was in the Andaman Sea doing joint maneuvers with the USS John C. Stennis.
> 
> If anyone bothered to look at a map, one would note that the route back to Yokohama from the Andaman Sea goes through the South China Sea. Only a genius like you would send it around Australia for its return home to Japan. Apparently they do not like the idea of carriers ploughing their way through the very very narrow and shallow Torres Strait, which would add many thousands of miles and many more days to the trip.
> 
> Yes, stop your whining and move along. There is nothing '_To See Here_'. It was just a routine carrier transit as it heads to its home port.









So, the international sea lane through SCS is an U.S national interest. Good when you understand that.

This hurts "Chinese dream" who want to make SCS as their own "Chinese lake".

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Kyusuibu Honbu

KirovAirship said:


> Mr.Bengal of course.
> No? Neither do I, it's based on somebody's logic, not mine.



Mr.Bengal is India's foe? Can you tell what Mr.Bengal has in military arsenal specific to address Indian threat?


----------



## Viet

Distinguished visitors from *Vietnam *observe flight operations during a tour of the U.S. Navy's forward-deployed aircraft carrier USS George Washington (CVN 73). 

(U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist Seaman Tatiana Avery/RELEASED).
SOUTH CHINA SEA (Oct. 20. 2012)

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## shuttler

that is why the us tax payers are in great pain when us deficit keeps ballooning to the size of the moon. what a waste of resources just to show some muscle!

one aircraft carrier is much easier target than shooting a sitting duck for our missiles. bring on the whole fleet if you want to make a noise! Losers!!


----------



## shuttler

Kinetic said:


> What a country!! very neighbor is a foe... Japan, Taiwan, Korea, Philippines, India, Vietnam, US... the list goes on.
> 
> What what?



Taiwan is not our foe. some taiwanese are just becoming delusional and sometimes turn on the cheerleading mode
US is not our neighbour. it has enemies all over the world

in asia our enemy no 1 is japan and cheerleading indians and vietcongs are getting closer to be on par with the japanese. the pinoys are too small to be worthy of any concern

indians have one of the biggest enemies within their land - the insurgents! what a shining superpower wannabe!


----------



## illusion8

shuttler said:


> Taiwan is not our foe. some taiwanese are just becoming delusional and sometimes turn on the cheerleading mode
> US is not our neighbour. it has enemies all over the world
> 
> in asia our enemy no 1 is japan and cheerleading indians and vietcongs are getting closer to be on par with the japanese. the pinoys are too small to be worthy of any concern
> 
> indians have one of the biggest enemies within their land - the insurgents! what a shining superpower wannabe!



There's some problems with some HKer's not wanting too close a relationship with China...right? How's your relations with Mongolia and Cambodia.


----------



## TruthSeeker

Vive Vietnam-USA friendship!! The USA has many, many very successful Vietnamese-American citizens. These new Americans would love for their country (the USA) to be a peaceful economic and strategic partner with Vietnam. There is no good reason that iphones, and many other high-tech American designed products, couldn't be manufactured in Vietnam instead of China. Let's make it happen!! Who needs China?? Let the Chinese trade with themselves ......

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zero_wing

shuttler said:


> Taiwan is not our foe. some taiwanese are just becoming delusional and sometimes turn on the cheerleading mode
> US is not our neighbour. it has enemies all over the world
> 
> in asia our enemy no 1 is japan and cheerleading indians and vietcongs are getting closer to be on par with the japanese. the pinoys are too small to be worthy of any concern
> 
> indians have one of the biggest enemies within their land - the insurgents! what a shining superpower wannabe!




Us too small i think its tool that is too small or brain start reading not just mao


----------



## shuttler

Zero_wing said:


> Us too small i think its tool that is too small or brain start reading not just mao



Let our Hongkong police force to deal with you! They have a score to settle!


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

I think that after Cam Ranh port upgrade is complete, we should let US aircraft carriers and US submarines to visit and resupply if they wish.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zero_wing

shuttler said:


> Let our Hongkong police force to deal with you! They have a score to settle!



Really then send them over for human rights training or do you like to personally be train by our boys in blue ? 

Sir read the topic and stick to it or your old wise maps tell otherwise maoist


----------



## S.U.R.B.

TruthSeeker said:


> Vive Vietnam-USA friendship!! The USA has many, many very successful Vietnamese-American citizens. These new Americans would love for their country (the USA) to be a peaceful economic and strategic partner with Vietnam. There is no good reason that iphones, and many other high-tech American designed products, couldn't be manufactured in Vietnam instead of China. Let's make it happen!! Who needs China??  Let the Chinese trade with themselves ......




Well, China, the largest foreign holder of United States debt, said that Washington needed to "cure its addiction to debts" and "live within its means."( year-2011)
Yeah, who needs China?

Global financial crisis is not an old story & i'm just supposing that it was a short term memory malfunction.



> Holding a G7 meeting without China today is like expecting the League of Nations without the US to tackle totalitarianism in the 1930s.


----------



## Viet

*Vietnamese Distinguished Visitors Tour George Washington
*
_Story Number: NNS121020-08Release Date: 10/20/2012 5:11:00 PM
By Mass Communication Specialist Seaman Tatiana Avery, USS George Washington Public Affairs _






_Distinguished visitors from Vietnam on board of USS George Washington
_
USS GEORGE WASHINGTON, At Sea (NNS) -- Distinguished visitors from *Vietnam *visited the U.S. Navy's forward-deployed aircraft carrier USS George Washington (CVN 73) for a tour of the ship, Oct. 20.

Fourteen representatives from the U.S. Embassy in Hanoi, and military officials and business leaders toured the Nimitz-class aircraft carrier's navigation bridge, combat directions center, air operations, hangar bay and flight deck to better understand U.S. aircraft carrier operations and the crew.

Although George Washington has never conducted a port visit to Vietnam, this was not the first time the ship had Vietnamese visitors aboard; George Washington had the opportunity to host visitors from Vietnam in 2011.

*"We are partnered with all nations with the intention to work together to provide maritime security for the world,"* said Capt. Carlos Sardiello, George Washington's executive officer. *"We are always happy to have the opportunity to host the citizens of Vietnam on our ship."
*
While touring the ship, the group was also escorted by *four Sailors of Vietnamese descent stationed aboard George Washington.*

"To actually see Vietnamese citizens come on to our ship and get to speak with them was a great opportunity that we don't get very often," said Machinist's Mate 3rd Class Quan Tran, from Baltimore. "They were interested to know about our lives about the ship and exactly what it is that we do."

The visitors spoke with both high and low ranking members of the George Washington crew to better understand the ties and common goal of security and stability in the Asia-Pacific region.

Upon their departure, the visitors extended their deepest thanks to the crew of the George Washington and expressed hopes that *the aircraft carrier could make a future visit to Vietnam in order to foster ties between the two countries.*

"I give kudos to everyone on the ship who work together to make something so amazing and gigantic work in order to protect this region," said An T. Le, consul general for the U.S. Consulate General, Ho Chi Minh City. "The fact that 5,500 Sailors can all work so cohesively is extremely impressive."

George Washington is the flagship of the George Washington Carrier Strike Group (GWCSG), the U.S. Navy's only continuously forward-deployed carrier strike group operating out of Yokosuka, Japan. GWCSG is currently conducting a routine patrol in the U.S. 7th Fleet area of operations.

For more news from USS George Washington (CVN 73), visit Command Home Page.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> I think that after Cam Ranh port upgrade is complete, we should let US aircraft carriers and US submarines to visit and resupply if they wish.



The US Navy clearly wants access to Cam Ranh bay at regular basis. That said the US Defence Minister at the last visit to Vietnam. The VN government should allow it.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## shuttler

Viet said:


> The US Navy clearly wants access to Cam Ranh bay at regular basis. That said the US Defence Minister at the last visit to Vietnam. The VN government should allow it.



do you think the russians will be happy about that?


----------



## Viet

The core of Vietnamese Navy: the Gepards


----------



## Death Rattle

Nice Frigates

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

shuttler said:


> do you think the russians will be happy about that?



We are a sovereign nation, we decide based on own national interests. 

But I think before the VN government makes a decision, it will take all other factors from other major players including China, America, India, Japan and of course Russia into the consideration.
As a small nation it is not easy for us to do what we want to do. China is the main factor behind all vietnamese thinkings.

Anyway I think the Russians will not oppose the deal.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Snomannen

Kloitra said:


> Out of somebody's logic...
> So what the entire world believes, and is true by definition, is someone's logic. And even than you could not properly correct yourself, as India has 4 maritime neighbors, or so the world believe.
> I am sure Macao's educational system is better than that, why give it a bad name?



Believe what. Someone was talking about "foes", so I join his topic and also talk about "foes".
You are a funny guy with a weird mind, my lovely friend.


----------



## Snomannen

Syama Ayas said:


> Mr.Bengal is India's foe? Can you tell what Mr.Bengal has in military arsenal specific to address Indian threat?



You haven't read the second sentence.


----------



## Viet

*Talks to begin soon on East Sea conduct
*
_Updated October, 26 2012 10:46:51 | Vietnam News_





_Foreign Ministry spokesperson Luong Thanh Nghi. (Photo: VNA)_

HA NOI (VNS) &#8212; Viet Nam hopes ASEAN and *China *can soon start official negotiations on a Code of Conduct of Parties in the East Sea (COC), which will contribute to maintaining peace, stability, cooperation and development in the region, Foreign Ministry spokesperson Luong Thanh Nghi said while responding to questions on Viet Nam's viewpoints over* Indonesia's draft COC* at the ministry's regular press briefing in Ha Noi on October 25.

Nghi also said that ASEAN has been accelerating official consultations between ASEAN and China for the building of a COC. *ASEAN Foreign Ministers approved all the necessary documents in July.* Indonesia has made a draft with more specific and detailed contents, Nghi said, which ASEAN countries will continue to discuss.

At the press briefing, the spokesperson also announced that Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev would visit Viet Nam from November 6-7.

Nghi said this would be a particularly important visit given that the two countries have lifted their relationship to the level of a comprehensive strategic partnership.

It is expected that the two sides will discuss measures to further enhance their ties as well as international and regional issues of mutual concern. &#8212; VNS


Talks to begin soon on East Sea conduct - Politics & Laws | Politics, Business, Economy, Society, Life, Sports - VietNam News - VietNam News

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

Here is the official video from the visit (the music annoys a bit).

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zero_wing

Fanling Monk said:


> *China's South China Sea Fleet holds anti-submarine training*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *A destroyer flotilla under the South China Sea Fleet of the Navy of the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) conducted an anti-submarine training recently, in a bid to temper the anti-submarine capability of the troops.*



Am looking at new artificial coral reef


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

*US Navy to guard &#8216;freedom of navigation&#8217; in Asia*
26-Oct-2012 Intellasia | AFP | 7:56 AM

The captain of a US supercarrier said Thursday the US Navy&#8217;s presence in Asia would help safeguard &#8220;freedom of navigation&#8221;, amid China&#8217;s claims to sovereignty over vast waters in the region.

The commander of the USS George Washington, which is on a port call to the Philippine capital, said the United States was not taking sides in territorial disputes but stood firmly for keeping sea lanes open.

&#8220;One of the reasons we deploy throughout the region is so we can carry forth the banner of freedom of navigation. It is very important to us given the trade that travels throughout the region on the seas,&#8221; Captain Gregory Fenton said.

US Navy to guard &#8216;freedom of navigation&#8217; in Asia - Intellasia East Asia News

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Joe Shearer

sweetgrape said:


> Do not exaggerate its influence, that's free international lane, they have done these many times, they always cruise in SCS.
> This is a sensitive time, someone hype this just to make new tension on SCS, Maybe USN want to embolden philippine, Viet, just like what they always do, the empty promise!
> 
> The US AC not make china nervious, but seems make you exciting first, hehe!
> 
> 
> That's a big challenge to india, hehe, kidding!
> If India AC can come to SCS, that's a better party, If they can visit to Viet or Philippine with US AC together, that's much better!!



If these are open seas, why did the PLAN keep tracking Indian warships during their transit, and keep sending them insolent messages?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## SinoChallenger

Joe Shearer said:


> If these are open seas, why did the PLAN keep tracking Indian warships during their transit, and keep sending them insolent messages?


Open to everybody but india, obviously, because you are the enemy.


----------



## applesauce

Joe Shearer said:


> If these are open seas, why did the PLAN keep tracking Indian warships during their transit,



whats wrong with tracking ships? every serious military power tracks every other power



Joe Shearer said:


> and keep sending them insolent messages?



this never happened, if the Indian leadership believes some ten year broadcasting into an open channel then you got far bigger problems to worry about than china


----------



## applesauce

Zero_wing said:


> Am looking at new artificial coral reef



u mean artifical coral reef builder, using materials supplied by the PN ...i would say fleet but u only have like 5 ships worth mentioning lol


----------



## Viet

*Source: USS George Washington (CVN 73)*

General quarters drill aboard the U.S. Navy's forward-deployed aircraft carrier USS George Washington (CVN 73). 

George Washington and its embarked air wing, Carrier Air Wing (CVW) 5, provide a combat-ready force that protects and defends the collective maritime interest of the U.S. and its allies and partners in the Asia-Pacific region. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 3rd Class Jacob I. Allison/RELEASED) BT947








121020-N-BT947-015 SOUTH CHINA SEA (Oct. 20, 2012) Quartermaster 3rd Class Joel Seragalindo, from Sabana Grando, Puerto Rico.







121020-N-BT947-024 SOUTH CHINA SEA (Oct. 20, 2012) Boatswain's Mate 3rd Class Diana Deleon, from Bakersville, Calif.







121020-N-BT947-029 SOUTH CHINA SEA (Oct. 20, 2012) Quartermaster Seaman Giaus Iriaka, from Queens, New York, charts a course by hand 







121020-N-BT947-064 SOUTH CHINA SEA (Oct. 20, 2012) Operations Specialist Seaman Rachel Brown, from Cypress, Texas, operates the SPA-25 radar tracking system.







121020-N-BT947-088 SOUTH CHINA SEA (Oct. 20, 2012) Operations Specialist 2nd Class Chris Norton, from Midwest City, Ok., charts the ship's course on a dead reckoning tracker (DRT).







121020-N-BT947-107 SOUTH CHINA SEA (Oct. 20, 2012) Operations Specialist 3rd Class Deondre Quinn, from Saint Louis, operates the ship's self defense station.







121020-N-SF704-002 SOUTH CHINA SEA (Oct. 20, 2012) Machinists Mate 1st Class Jason Jackson, from Versailles, Ky.






121020-N-XF988-039 SOUTH CHINA SEA (Oct. 20, 2012) Cmdr. Jerry Stokes, air operations officer aboard the U.S. Navys forward-deployed aircraft carrier USS George Washington (CVN 73), discusses flight operations with international journalists during a tour of the ship.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zero_wing

applesauce said:


> u mean artifical coral reef builder, using materials supplied by the PN ...i would say fleet but u only have like 5 ships worth mentioning lol



nope am pretty sure its your ships  i mean its not just the PN there's US, Japan, Vietnam etc so ya thank you for helping the fish like you people know our ships ha laughable in your part


----------



## SinoChallenger

Zero_wing said:


> nope am pretty sure its your ships  i mean its not just the PN there's US, Japan, Vietnam etc so ya thank you for helping the fish like you people know our ships ha laughable in your part


So why didn't they save you when China spanked you like a baby and took Scarborough Shoal like candy?


----------



## Zero_wing

SinoChallenger said:


> So why didn't they save you when China spanked you like a baby and took Scarborough Shoal like candy?



Well you didn't one we had an agreement that both countries withdraw from the area but only mine followed that agreement meaning you people have no true word but we are still in control because our ships can still come and go in the area i was told by one of my cost guard friends that we are running circles on those chinese invader ships and when our new PCG ships (brand new) from Japan comes will be cooling you off with sea water all the way back to china 500 miles away  and FYI sir if you have no effective control in the area its not a victory so ya right! go back home invader and deal with you lose and still waiting for your nukes? and i see you have taken your meds today good for you! i hope you feel better! and please continue to take them

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Fanling Monk

*South China Sea Fleet holds drills*


A South China Sea Fleet marine brigade has recently conducted drills to enhance its efficiency in dealing with marine emergencies. The exercise involved judging water situations, strengthening cooperation capability between the seaborne command post and bank bases, and improving other overall emergency operation skills.





































South China Sea Fleet holds drills- China.org.cn

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## yusheng

Type 071 amphibious transport dock






The Type 071 (Yuzhao-class) are amphibious warfare ships of the People's Republic of China's People's Liberation Army Navy. They are built by the Shanghai-based Hudong-Zhonghua Shipyard, and the first entered service in late-2007.

The Type 071 has a capacity of one marine battalion, including 500-800 troops, and 15-20 amphibious armoured vehicles. Troops and equipment may be deployed to over longer distances and to more difficult terrain by hovercraft and helicopters. The well deck may hold four Yuyi-class LCAC.

The ship is armed with one 76 mm gun and four 30 mm close-in weapon systems.

The Type 071 may operate as the flagship of a task force. As with similar ships, it may also conduct humanitarian and civilian evacuation missions in addition to amphibious landing.











Type: Amphibious transport dock 
Displacement: 19,000 long tons (19,000 t) 
Length: 210 m (689 ft 0 in) 
Beam: 28 m (91 ft 10 in) 
Draft: 7 m (23 ft 0 in) 
Propulsion: CODAD
4 × SEMT Pielstick 16 PC2.6 V400 diesel engines, 47,200 hp (35,197 kW)
2 × shafts [1] 




Speed: 22 knots (41 km/h; 25 mph)+ 
Range: 6,000 nmi (11,000 km) at 18 knots (33 km/h; 21 mph) 
Boats & landing
craft carried:  4 × air-cushioned landing craft
 2 × landing craft on port/starboard davits 
Capacity: 15-20 armoured vehicles 
Troops: 500-800 troops 


and new type 081 is said to be under construction:

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## SinoChallenger

Zero_wing said:


> Well you didn't one we had an agreement that both countries withdraw from the area but only mine followed that agreement meaning you people have no true word but we are still in control because our ships can still come and go in the area i was told by one of my cost guard friends that we are running circles on those chinese invader ships and when our new PCG ships (brand new) from Japan comes will be cooling you off with sea water all the way back to china 500 miles away  and FYI sir if you have no effective control in the area its not a victory so ya right! go back home invader and deal with you lose and still waiting for your nukes? and i see you have taken your meds today good for you! i hope you feel better! and please continue to take them


  You are afraid of the rope with we tied to Scarborough Shoal and afraid to enter the lagoon.

Keep dreaming. What happened to that capital warship you brought out last time to threaten our fisherman?


----------



## EastSea

US carrier passes through S. China Sea


Philippine media say the US aircraft carrier, the George Washington, passed through the South China Sea on Saturday, on its way to the Philippines.
The ship will also pass through waters around Huangyan Island. The aircraft carrier is accompanied by at least two destroyers. It will arrive in the Philippines on Wednesday, for a four-day visit.
The US embassy in the Philippines says the visit is aimed at improving historical relations between the US and the Philippines.

US carrier passes through S. China Sea CCTV News - CNTV English

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Zero_wing

SinoChallenger said:


> You are afraid of the rope with we tied to Scarborough Shoal and afraid to enter the lagoon.
> 
> Keep dreaming. What happened to that capital warship you brought out last time to threaten our fisherman?



Its not a dream we been passing inside you have no control of the area your trespassing your poachers are a problem



EastSea said:


> US carrier passes through S. China Sea
> 
> 
> Philippine media say the US aircraft carrier, the George Washington, passed through the South China Sea on Saturday, on its way to the Philippines.
> The ship will also pass through waters around Huangyan Island. The aircraft carrier is accompanied by at least two destroyers. It will arrive in the Philippines on Wednesday, for a four-day visit.
> The US embassy in the Philippines says the visit is aimed at improving historical relations between the US and the Philippines.
> 
> US carrier passes through S. China Sea CCTV News - CNTV English



its not Huangyan Island its Scarborough Shoal or Panatag Shoal in filipino stop supporting our chinese enemy

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## yusheng

[video]http://www.56.com/w61/play_album-aid-10004985_vid-NzIwOTE2NjQ.html[/video]

it happened 2007, hope not again.


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

Truong Sa Islands (Spratlys):

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## yusheng

whole map of South China Sea:
http://files1.**********/uploadfiles/bbs/2003/11/22/2010147_20436.17.jpg


Vietnam has many islands there, 





though the bigest one is held by Taiwan&#65306;Taiping Island











Since all claim it, what will happen in the future?


----------



## Minjitta

ahfatzia said:


> I actually feel sorry for these people living in the smallest of the shoals, constantly facing the dangerous elements of nature. I also hope they are volunteered to move there and getting good incentives instead of ordered by the government.


These people move to these islands got a lot of incentives such as, free housing, no taxes, no electricity bill, free health care.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## NiceGuy

Minjitta said:


> These people move to these islands got a lot of incentives such as, free housing, no taxes, no electricity bill, free health care.


Many sacrificed their lives with No incentives during 70s-90s .

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

yusheng said:


> whole map of South China Sea:
> http://files1.**********/uploadfiles/bbs/2003/11/22/2010147_20436.17.jpg
> 
> 
> Vietnam has many islands there,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> though the bigest one is held by Taiwan&#65306;Taiping Island



The maps are illegal, because:
- They painted 9-dotted line, an illegal claim of China.
- They still showed Hong Kong belongs to UK and Macau belongs to Portugue

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

Last update 19/10/2012 13:30:00 (GMT+7)
*Historic maps support VN's island sovereignty*

VietNamNet Bridge &#8211; As many as 80 old maps published between 1826 and 1980, of which 10 indicated Hoang Sa (Paracel) Islands and the Truong Sa (Spratly) Islands belong to Viet Nam, will be handed over to Da Nang's Institute for Socio-Economic Development next month. 

The maps are part of a collection belonging to the president of the Institute for Vietnamese Culture and Education (IVCE), Tran Thang, an American with Vietnamese origin. The institute is a non-profit organisation founded in New York in 2000.

Thang said by email earlier this week the ancient maps were published in England, America, France, Germany and Scotland.

He said he bought them from antique shops in the US, England and Poland.

"As Vietnamese, we all have an obligation to preserve our country and to take part in shaping the future of Vietnamese society," Thang said in the email.

"In the map collection, 70 maps indicate that the frontier of Southern China is Hainan island and 10 maps indicate that the Paracels belongs to Viet Nam," he said.

"During my collecting of antique maps, I found two Postal Atlas Map of China books which were published by the Directorate General of Posts, Ministry of Transportation of the Republic of China in 1919 (consisting of 49 maps) and in 1933 (29 maps) and one Atlas of the Chinese Empire, published by the China Inland Mission in 1909 (23 maps). 

None of the three books list the Paracels and Spratlys in the maps and index pages."

Thang said he was going to donate all the maps to the Da Nang-based Institute for Socio-Economic Development (ISED) which had been studying Paracels and Spratlys issues.

ISED vice director Tran Duc Anh Son said the collection of old maps was significant evidence that the two archipelagoes belonged to Viet Nam.

"We can classify that the collection comprises of three kinds of maps: 68 old maps of China showing that China did not have the Paracel and Spratly islands; six maps that indicate those islands belonged to Viet Nam; five maps of the Southeast Asian region that show Paracel and Spratly archipelagoes are under Viet Nam sovereignty," Son said.

"We would display the map collection at the city's Hoang Sa Islands District museum. We plan to show off the collection in the &#8216;Sea and Islands Week' to be held in Khanh Hoa Province next April," he said.

He said Thang had bought the maps with his own money and some from his friends.

Son, who has been doing a social science study on "Viet Nam's sovereignty over the Hoang Sa Islands" for primary schools, said he would include information from the collection in his study.

Ly Son Island, 30km offshore from Quang Ngai Province, still preserve Am Linh Pagoda, which was a worshipping place for seamen who had been dispatched to the Paracel Islands in the Nguyen dynasty, since the 17th century.

A museum of the two archipelagoes displays over 200 ancient documents and 100 objects which prove that Paracel and Spratly islands belong to Viet Nam.





*Navigating the past: An old map of China dating back to 1933 
that was published by the Ministry of Transport of the Republic of China. 
The map shows the southern extent of China as being Hainan Island.*






Historical evidence: An old map of Viet Nam, 
which was printed by Prevost Bellin in Germany, 
also shows that the southern extent of China as being Hainan Island.


Historic maps support VN's island sovereignty - News VietNamNet

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

Last update 22/10/2012 09:38:00 (GMT+7)
*Int&#8217;l scholars reject China&#8217;s East Sea (SCS) demands*

VietNamNet Bridge &#8211; International scholars have presented evidence at a recent workshop in Paris, rejecting China&#8217;s sovereignty claim in the East Sea (SCS), especially its U-shaped line.

About 300 delegates, including many scholars on Asia studies from France and other countries, presented reports on international law, political and economic challenges in the East Sea, and solutions to the ongoing marine dispute in the region.

The presentations concentrated on the role of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) in the matter, the possibility of bringing the case to an international tribunal, or authenticating the historical evidence given by China.

Professor Monique Chemillier Gendreau from the Paris Diderot University in France, Professor Erik Franckx from Vrije University Brussels in Belgium, and Professor David Scott from Brunel University in the UK made an in-depth analysis of China&#8217;s U-shaped line and confirmed that the Chinese map is not in line with international norms and practices. 

Professor Gendreau quoted current international law saying a nation can only claim sovereignty over an island if the island has existed under its jurisdiction for a long time and an administrative system has been established there. 

International law requires clear evidence while Chinese arguments are based on history books or literary works, she said, citing evidence that Vietnam established its administrative organisation to govern the Hoang Sa archipelago from the 18th to the mid 19th century under the French colonialists. 

More importantly, no regional countries objected to the management until the administration of South Vietnam legally took over the group of islands, said the French professor. 

Several French documents show that in the 1930s the Chinese administration was still confused about the Truong Sa archipelago, another group of disputed islands in the East Sea, and did not mention them on its national map. 

Experts confirmed that China&#8217;s wording such as &#8216;adjacent&#8217; or &#8216;historic&#8217; waters are not used in international treaties, including the 1982 Montego Bay Declaration to which China has acceded. 

They once again underlined the importance of the East Sea to global geo-politics and trade, especially regarding the exploitation of large reserves of crude oil, that have prompted a number of countries to enter the dispute. 

In a panel discussion, naval experts and representatives of government officials, including Christian Lechrvy, advisor to French President Francois Hollande, all agreed that the situation in the East Sea is very complex. 

However, they ruled out the possibility of a traditional military clash, reasoning that all regional countries possess modern weapons and none wants to become involved in a confrontation without a high possibility of success. They said the bottom line is finding a common voice amongst all parties concerned. 

Lechervy spoke of the East Sea disputes amongst several regional countries that have been ongoing since 2008 and downplayed worries about a diplomatic impasse. He said multilateral forums will help solve the disputes peacefully. 

Experts stressed that the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) must be observed to define marine boundaries and common fishing grounds, and to conduct joint patrols at sea. 

They called on parties concerned not to build more military bases on disputed islands, and deploy civil and police forces to maintain security instead. 

They held that all parties concerned and other countries like the US and France need to take a constructive attitude and make positive contributions to negotiations in order to ease the situation in the East Sea, which is a common international issue. 

Professor Gendreau even recommended turning the East Sea into an international sea area subject to international law which could benefit all countries concerned and ensure peace throughout the entire region.

Int

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

Ready to protect Spratly islands:

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## yusheng



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

yusheng said:


>

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zero_wing

yusheng said:


>



back at you sir that fits your bill

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## yusheng

S. China Sea fleet holds landing drill
11-05-2012 14:26 BJT 

Watch Video

Video 2

The Chinese Navy&#8217;s South China Sea Fleet has held a landing drill in waters of the South China Sea. The drill involved a formation of destroyers, frigates, landing ships and submarines. The formation first practised using electromagnetic interference equipment. 

Meanwhile, a missile was launched to practice defending against incoming aircraft and missiles. Artillery on board ships then fired at fixed targets on shore. 

As the drill continued, damage to ships and casualties were simulated. 

Under cover of the fleet formation, amphibious armored vehicles, and hovercrafts launched the last wave of attacks on enemy targets, and reclaimed islands occupied by enemy forces.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

yusheng said:


>



.........

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

*U.S. Navy*
*121031-N-TG831-189
SOUTH CHINA SEA (Oct. 31, 2012) Sailors assigned to the Arleigh Burke-class guided-missile destroyer USS McCampbell (DDG 85) conduct a replenishment-at-sea with the Military Sealift Command fleet replenishment oiler USNS Amelia Earheart (T-AKE 6). McCampbell is part of the George Washington Carrier Strike Group, the U.S. Navys only continuously forward-deployed carrier strike group, based out of Yokosuka, Japan, and is currently conducting a routine patrol in the western Pacific region supporting regional security and stability of the vital Asia-Pacific region. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist Seaman Declan Barnes/Released) U.S. Navy  Gerald Andre Battle, Frank Nguyen Ngoc Thach và Antoni Jorge Gonzalez*


----------



## cirr

The Vietnamses must love the Americans, for the latter killed hundreds of thousands of the former, burned down thousands of villages and gave the whole country a chemical-wash.

The Americans are now back!

In order for the Vietnamses to love the Americans, the latter must redo what it did during the 1960s and 70s.

Such is the irony and logic of history and human mind.


----------



## Kyusuibu Honbu

applesauce said:


> this never happened, *if the Indian leadership believes some ten year broadcasting into an open channel* then you got far bigger problems to worry about than china



What is the bolded part supposed to mean


----------



## gambit

cirr said:


> The Vietnamses must love the Americans, for the latter killed hundreds of thousands of the former, burned down thousands of villages and gave the whole country a chemical-wash.
> 
> The Americans are now back!
> 
> In order for the Vietnamses to love the Americans, the latter must redo what it did during the 1960s and 70s.
> 
> Such is the irony and logic of history and human mind.


If you have to resort to this kind of hyperboles, it means you have no credible arguments. By the way, given how China adopts many things 'Western' considering how China was carved up by the Europeans, how much love does China have for them?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

cirr said:


> The Vietnamses must love the Americans, for the latter killed hundreds of thousands of the former, burned down thousands of villages and gave the whole country a chemical-wash.
> 
> *The Americans are now back*!
> 
> In order for the Vietnamses to love the Americans, the latter must redo what it did during the 1960s and 70s.
> 
> Such is the irony and logic of history and human mind.




The US comes back as friend. How is about China?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## jhungary

What the american do here is simple, sending a message said "WE ARE HERE TO STAY"

With the latest development of Australia housing 2500 US Marine started this year, we can see more US/Asian-Oceanian(Never used this word before, am i correct?)

Currently a US 7th Fleet ship will stop at Yokosuka, Japan (Home Base) Pusan, Korea, Keilong or Hong Kong, Guam, Pakistan, India, Thailand, Indonesia, Philippines, PNG, Australia (Either Brisbane or Perth) New Zealand, Vietnam. 

If a Chinese Navy ship goes out at sea, they can stop at Pakistan, Hong Kong, then it need to turn back....

Although i am not really pro-anything to begin with, you can't help but see how US Foreign Relation trump China....

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## gambit

Viet said:


> The US comes back as friend. *How is about China?*


As conqueror.


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

cirr said:


> The Vietnamses must love the Americans, for the latter killed hundreds of thousands of the former, burned down thousands of villages and gave the whole country a chemical-wash.
> 
> The Americans are now back!
> 
> In order for the Vietnamses to love the Americans, the latter must redo what it did during the 1960s and 70s.
> 
> Such is the irony and logic of history and human mind.



If we keep hatred with our former-enemies, China is ranked as No 1.

Do you encourage that ? [keeping hatred].

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## WS-10 Engine

gambit said:


> As conqueror.



Who is the conqueror?
Conquered who?


----------



## BigDaddyWatch

Right now i fear America's economic weakness far more than America's military strength. There is no chance of China and America getting into a direct military confrontation but the effect of the coming economic collapse in America and the dollar will hurt the people not only in China but around the world much more. The Americans are such a tease, what scoundrels they are getting the world on a dollar standard and then print the currency into oblivions.


----------



## Zero_wing

yusheng said:


> S. China Sea fleet holds landing drill
> 11-05-2012 14:26 BJT
> 
> Watch Video
> 
> Video 2
> 
> The Chinese Navy&#8217;s South China Sea Fleet has held a landing drill in waters of the South China Sea. The drill involved a formation of destroyers, frigates, landing ships and submarines. The formation first practised using electromagnetic interference equipment.
> 
> Meanwhile, a missile was launched to practice defending against incoming aircraft and missiles. Artillery on board ships then fired at fixed targets on shore.
> 
> As the drill continued, damage to ships and casualties were simulated.
> 
> Under cover of the fleet formation, amphibious armored vehicles, and hovercrafts launched the last wave of attacks on enemy targets, and reclaimed islands occupied by enemy forces.



Target practice for our new spike missiles and our terradores (Marksman's) and other claimants which can defend themselves do yourselves a favor stop being warmongers and better solve this diplomatically like everyone else love to do why do you people love war think you can win against the whole world

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## yusheng

Zero_wing said:


> Target practice for our new spike missiles and our terradores (Marksman's) and other claimants which can defend themselves do yourselves a favor stop being warmongers and better solve this diplomatically like everyone else love to do why do you people love war think you can win against the whole world




We don't love war. 

but the mission of PLA is defending our country and our people, of course they need exercise, and i can of course report the drill. 

why not show our muscle to those who have illusion?

if you think the drill spot is your territory, why not give us a so called missile?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## jhungary

Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> If we keep hatred with our former-enemies, China is ranked as No 1.
> 
> Do you encourage that ? [keeping hatred].



There are no definite or absolute enemy in this world anymore, any of your enemy can be your friend under some circumstance, or any of your friend could suddently turn against you at some time.

We see that in the history many many time. How Hilter Betray Russia and how Russia betray Poland, How Germany become Allied foremost important power after WW2, how Japan become US Allied after WW2. How US help Iran and finally turn against them, How Egypt and Israel are on Status Quo after 40 years of war, How Tailban help and betray first soviet union then the US.

I can't even name them all and those are just in the recent 100 years. When you fought a war, you fought with the government, not the country, when the regime has fall, so should the hatred. People who keep their hatred and think too much in the past will NOT progress as they will just ended up hating everybody, there are nothing but self regret in the end, China will never be a superpower if they cannot figure this out, doesn't matter how strong their economic are. YOu will have no friend, and most of your power is coming from your friend as one country, no matter how big is it, cannot survive.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zero_wing

jhungary said:


> There are no definite or absolute enemy in this world anymore, any of your enemy can be your friend under some circumstance, or any of your friend could suddently turn against you at some time.
> 
> We see that in the history many many time. How Hilter Betray Russia and how Russia betray Poland, How Germany become Allied foremost important power after WW2, how Japan become US Allied after WW2. How US help Iran and finally turn against them, How Egypt and Israel are on Status Quo after 40 years of war, How Tailban help and betray first soviet union then the US.
> 
> I can't even name them all and those are just in the recent 100 years. When you fought a war, you fought with the government, not the country, when the regime has fall, so should the hatred. People who keep their hatred and think too much in the past will NOT progress as they will just ended up hating everybody, there are nothing but self regret in the end, China will never be a superpower if they cannot figure this out, doesn't matter how strong their economic are. YOu will have no friend, and most of your power is coming from your friend as one country, no matter how big is it, cannot survive.



No true words were ever spoken now its up to our chinese forumers to understand and think about

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

jhungary said:


> There are no definite or absolute enemy in this world anymore, any of your enemy can be your friend under some circumstance, or any of your friend could suddently turn against you at some time.
> 
> We see that in the history many many time. How Hilter Betray Russia and how Russia betray Poland, How Germany become Allied foremost important power after WW2, how Japan become US Allied after WW2. How US help Iran and finally turn against them, How Egypt and Israel are on Status Quo after 40 years of war, How Tailban help and betray first soviet union then the US.
> 
> I can't even name them all and those are just in the recent 100 years. When you fought a war, you fought with the government, not the country, when the regime has fall, so should the hatred. People who keep their hatred and think too much in the past will NOT progress as they will just ended up hating everybody, there are nothing but self regret in the end, China will never be a superpower if they cannot figure this out, doesn't matter how strong their economic are. YOu will have no friend, and most of your power is coming from your friend as one country, no matter how big is it, cannot survive.



Our *Chinese friends want us Vietnamse keep hatred with Americans forever*, but they (Chinese) ignore their own invasions of our country.

In fact, China has been causing us most of troubles:
- They were the first guys invaded our country (in 207 BC), and they were also the last guys to invade our country (until 1988)
- They had most numbers of invasions our country.
- They targeted even Vietnamese civilians professedly with a policy of "scorched earth" the most brutal.
- Today they are still occupied illegally some territory of Vietnam after 1974 military invasion at Paracel Islands of Vietnam.
- Today they are still often threatening to attack us....


----------



## WuMaoCleverbot

*EU agencies back PH stand on sea dispute*
By Joyce Pangco Panares | Posted on Nov. 06, 2012 at 12:01am

The European Council, the European Commission, and European countries Switzerland and Norway have thrown their support behind the Philippines&#8217; position to resolve the territorial dispute in the West Philippine Sea through a multilateral approach.

This was after President Benigno Aquino III raised the issue on the dispute in the West Philippine Sea during his bilateral meetings with Swiss President Eveline Widner-Schlumpf, Norwegian Prime Minister Jen Stoltenberg, European Council President Herman von Rompuy and European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso on Monday.


In Laos. President Benigno Aquino III is greeted by Laos&#8217; President Choummaly Sayasone, center, and his wife Sayasone as he arrives for the 9th Asia-Europe Meeting.
&#8220;The President noted the increasing importance of maritime security in the west Philippine Sea. There was agreement that it is a matter of international interest considering that significant amount of world trade passes through that body of water,&#8221; Presidential Communications Operations Office Secretary Herminio Coloma said in an interview from Vientiane.

&#8220;Switzerland and the EU and to some extent also, Norway, indicated their full support to the Philippines in terms of our position that conflicts or disputes in that area are to be resolved peacefully and following international laws. And in particular, they expressed support for an Asean-centric approach, which has always been the position of President Aquino considering that four out of the ten member-states of Asean have specific stakes in the West Philippine Sea,&#8221; Coloma added.

Coloma said Mr. Aquino&#8217;s European counterparts agreed that &#8220;the only logical approach to any conflict resolution would have to be multilateral.&#8221;

The Philippines earlier figured in a heated row with China over the Panatag Shoal, with Beijing insisting on a bilateral solution to the conflicting claims.

The Philippines, however, has been pushing for a legally binding Code of Conduct to govern the territorial disputes.

Manila has also raised the possibility of bringing up its claim before the United Nations International Tribunal on the Law of the Seas.

EU agencies back PH stand on sea dispute - Manila Standard Today

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## EastSea

Vietnam prepared for worst,

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## HongWu

Zero_wing said:


> Target practice for our new spike missiles and our terradores (Marksman's) and other claimants which can defend themselves do yourselves a favor stop being warmongers and better solve this diplomatically like everyone else love to do why do you people love war think you can win against the whole world


We don't need to fight again the whole world. Just some pathetic, corrupt, poor and big-mouthed nations including Philippines. We can snap your back like a twig.


----------



## HongWu

EastSea said:


> Vietnam prepared for worst,


Ready for agent orange spraying? 




WuMaoCleverbot said:


> *EU agencies back PH stand on sea dispute*
> By Joyce Pangco Panares | Posted on Nov. 06, 2012 at 12:01am


How pathetic. EU said nothing about backing Philippines!

Brussels firmly supports "a rules-based and peaceful resolution of disputes in the said maritime area in accordance with international law."

EU to PH: We support peace in South China Sea

 Pinoys go home losing to China again


----------



## Viet

*Beijing's Senkaku goal: Sub 'safe haven' in South China Sea*

*Quest for isles a strategic aim: former MSDF rear admiral*





_Silent service?: A Chinese submarine takes part in an international fleet review to celebrate the 60th anniversary of the founding of the People's Liberation Army Navy in Qingdao, Shandong Province, in April 2009. REUTERS/KYODO_

By REIJI YOSHIDA
Staff writer

What's at stake in the smoldering diplomatic crisis with China over the uninhabited *Senkaku *Islands, which only seem to attract fishing boats and ultranationalists?





_Sub-chaser: Sumihiko Kawamura, ex-commander of the Maritime Self-Defense Force's antisubmarine air wing, is interviewed recently in Chiyoda Ward, Tokyo. REIJI YOSHIDA_

Many Japanese observers say Beijing, which claims the Japan-controlled islets in the *East China Sea* and calls them Diaoyu, is trying to secure natural resources in the surrounding area, whereas China says the islets were captured by Japan in the 1890s at the start of its aggression toward China.

But according to *Sumihiko Kawamura*, a former rear admiral and commander of the Maritime Self-Defense Force's antisubmarine air wing, Beijing has a more critical but less-articulated goal that, if achieved, could tip strategic military superiority from the United States to China in the Pacific.

Kawamura believes Beijing is trying to turn the *South China Sea* into "a safe haven" for its nuclear-powered submarines, which are armed with ballistic missiles that can reach the United States. For that purpose, seizing the Senkakus &#8212; just 190 km east of Taiwan and close to the northern gateway to the South China Sea &#8212; is indispensable, Kawamura says.

*Submarine-launched ballistic missiles* (SLBMs) are considered China's only viable option to maintain a strong nuclear deterrent against the U.S., because *America has identified all of China's ICBM silos and could easily destroy them in a pre-emptive nuclear strike*, he says.

If Beijing maintains a *second-strike capability *with SLBMs that can reach the *U.S. mainland*, Kawamura says, this risk would possibly dissuade America from intervening in a major conflict involving China.

"This is directly related to the nuclear strategy of China. China will never give up the Senkakus," the former vice principal of the Joint Staff College of the Self-Defense Forces said during a recent interview with The Japan Times.

"This is just the beginning. Even if it takes 100 years, Beijing will try to seize the islands" to turn the South China Sea into a safe haven for its missile subs, he said.

Kawamura indicated the MSDF has the capability, with the U.S. Navy, to contain China's submarines within the South China Sea, which is partially enclosed by Taiwan, the Philippines, Malaysia and *Vietnam*.

The MSDF's nonnuclear "ultraquiet" submarines, working together with the U.S. Navy, can find, track and even sink any Chinese submarine that tries to enter the Pacific Ocean by crossing anywhere along a sea line that runs from the Japanese main islands to the Philippines via Okinawa and Taiwan, Kawamura said. The Chinese navy calls the line the First Island Chain, given its strategic importance.

*"(We can) sink Chinese submarines anytime we want if it comes to a showdown" *in the Pacific Ocean, said Kawamura, who in August published a book detailing a possible Japanese-Chinese military clash over the Senkaku Islands.

"No option is left (for China) except for trying to make the South China Sea a safe haven and defending submarines carrying nuclear missiles there," Kawamura said.

According to The New York Times, Xiong Guangkai, then deputy chief of staff of the People's Liberation Army, threatened the U.S. in 1995, saying China would consider launching a nuclear attack on Los Angeles if the U.S. were to intervene in a Taiwan conflict.

In 2005, Maj. Gen. Zhu Chenghu sparked a sensation by telling reporters that Beijing would have no choice but to conduct a pre-emptive nuclear strike against American cities if China faced the prospect of defeat in a conventional conflict over Taiwan.

"Japan has been protected by the *nuclear umbrella of the U.S*. If the U.S. cannot fully trust its deterrence power (against China), the U.S. won't interfere in" military conflicts between Japan and China, nor those involving Taiwan, he said.

Recently, China started calling the South China Sea one of its "core interests," signaling that no compromise would be acceptable and the use of force wouldn't be ruled out to protect its interests in the area.

China has also opened a large naval base on Hainan Island in the South China Sea that reportedly can accommodate as many as 20 submarines. This is part of the strategy to provide its nuclear-armed subs with a safe haven, Kawamura said.

Experts believe China's SLBMs have a maximum range of about 8,000 km. This means the lower 48 states in the U.S. would be out of reach from submarines in the South China Sea.

But China is working to extend the range of its SLBMs so they can hit the U.S. without its subs having to venture too far into the Pacific, according to Kawamura.

He said he believes China is being forced to follow the same tactic the Soviet Navy adopted during the Cold War.

The MSDF and U.S. Navy were able to track "almost all of the Soviet submarines" and thereby minimized the SLBM threat in the Pacific, Kawamura said.

As part of its nuclear deterrence against the U.S., the Soviet Union tried to turn the Sea of Okhotsk into "a bastion" for its nuclear sub fleet by crowding many surface warships and subs there.

China still lacks the technology to make its submarines stealthy. They are far noisier and easier to track than the Soviet subs, Kawamura said.

"When navigating, Chinese submarines sound like they are pounding a drum or bell," he said.

He believes that for now, the *MSDF has supremacy over the Chinese navy*, particularly because of its advanced antisubmarine warfare capabilities.

Submarine warfare could be the decisive element in a modern naval engagement. At present, China has only four antisubmarine aircraft, whereas 77 MSDF P-3C sub hunters regularly patrol the seas around Japan.

"As far as submarine warfare is concerned, China still doesn't have the ability to do what we were doing 30 years ago (to counter Soviet submarines). They are 30 years behind us," Kawamura said.

China recently launched its *first aircraft carrier*, the Liaoning, sparking a media sensation. But the carrier's operational theater would be restricted to just the South China Sea if a real war broke out, given its various technological limitations, Kawamura said.

Echoing many other military analysts, Kawamura noted China lacks the catapult technology to launch heavy carrier-based jets.

China's subs also aren't quiet enough to protect a carrier. The Liaoning would only "fall prey to" MSDF submarines even if it is dispatched, for example, to the East China Sea in the case of a war with Japan, Kawamura said.

"I don't think China will able to have an aircraft carrier that really performs within 10 years or so," he added.

*If China were to attack and try to seize the Senkaku Islands now, it might be able to temporarily occupy them*. But the occupation would not last long and the Chinese would eventually lose because the MSDF can easily cut off the maritime logistical lines for any occupiers, Kawamura said.

"If China has analyzed (the MSDF's capability) in a calm manner, I don't think it will resort to force. But there can be an accidental escalation" leading to a military clash, he said.

Chinese leaders may also try to use military force to attack the Senkakus to divert the frustration of the Chinese people, Kawamura warned.

He thus urged the government to enact legislation to ease regulations on the MSDF and Japan Coast Guard to allow them to fire warning shots against foreign ships approaching the islets. Otherwise, Chinese ships will keep coming back to the Senkakus for years to show they effectively control the territory, he said.


Beijing's Senkaku goal: Sub 'safe haven' in South China Sea | The Japan Times Online

The Japan Times
(C) All rights reserved

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

HongWu said:


> Ready for agent orange spra




It appears to me that many Chinese love such stuff. You know what, just give me your home address then you will get sprayed for free.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## notte

Viet said:


> *Submarine-launched ballistic missiles* (SLBMs) are considered China's only viable option to maintain a strong nuclear deterrent against the U.S., because *America has identified all of China's ICBM silos and could easily destroy them in a pre-emptive nuclear strike*, he says.


Wtf is this ****? Silo has hardened case and nuclear warhead is not bunker buster, how the f*** could it guarantee 100% silos of one of the most invested branch of PLA, are destroyed? And we also have many mobile systems, a preemptive strike will guarantee the destruction of the whole USA

This dude is just stupid, hope Japan has more of this type of officer.


----------



## Viet

yusheng said:


> S. China Sea fleet holds landing drill
> 11-05-2012 14:26 BJT
> 
> Watch Video
> 
> Video 2
> 
> The Chinese Navy&#8217;s South China Sea Fleet has held a landing drill in waters of the South China Sea. The drill involved a formation of destroyers, frigates, landing ships and submarines. The formation first practised using electromagnetic interference equipment.
> 
> Meanwhile, a missile was launched to practice defending against incoming aircraft and missiles. Artillery on board ships then fired at fixed targets on shore.
> 
> As the drill continued, damage to ships and casualties were simulated.
> 
> Under cover of the fleet formation, amphibious armored vehicles, and hovercrafts launched the last wave of attacks on enemy targets, and reclaimed islands occupied by enemy forces.






We are waiting! 





"Taratul" class of Viet Nam Navy

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Zero_wing

HongWu said:


> We don't need to fight again the whole world. Just some pathetic, corrupt, poor and big-mouthed nations including Philippines. We can snap your back like a twig.



And again point proven chinese warmongers are like yourselves instead of proving me wrong just proves me right! Really ok how come no attack happen yet if we and the rest of the region is so easy? and again if you people don't know we are no a tiger economy our corruption days are behind but again if your too stupid not to see it its not my problem. 

Back on topic a multilateral diplomacy is the only way out of this your way china way is just for china not for all and this defending you selves is simply not true you have nothing to defend its not yours its for the ASEAN countries really our EZZs and national territories and continental shelf china is simply too far away.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

HongWu said:


> Ready for agent orange spraying?
> 
> 
> How pathetic. EU said nothing about backing Philippines!
> 
> Brussels firmly supports "a rules-based and peaceful resolution of disputes in the said maritime area in accordance with international law."
> 
> EU to PH: We support peace in South China Sea
> 
> Pinoys go home losing to China again



You are nursed too much with milk poisioned with Melamine.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## yusheng

China's first deep-water rig to drill in South China Sea

we are there
05-07-2012 22:18 BJT 
BEIJING, May 7 (Xinhua) -- 

The first deep-water drilling rig developed in China will be put into service in the South China Sea on Wednesday, the country's largest offshore oil producer said Monday.

The sixth-generation semi-submersible CNOOC 981 will begin operations in a sea area 320 kilometers southeast of Hong Kong at a water depth of 1,500 meters, China National Offshore Oil Corp. (CNOOC) said in a press release.







Workers are seen as a helicopter land on the 
sixth-generation semi-submersible CNOOC 981 at
the South China Sea, 320 kilometers southeast 
of Hong Kong, south China, May 7, 2012. The
CNOOC 981 will begin operations in a sea area 
at a water depth of 1,500 meters, China National
Offshore Oil Corp. (CNOOC) said in a press 
release. This is the first deep-water drilling
rig developed in China. (Xinhua/Jin Liangkuai)



It will be the first independent deep-water oil drilling by a Chinese company, marking "a substantial step" made by the country's deep-sea oil industry, CNOOC said.

About 70 percent of oil and gas reserves in the resource-rich South China Sea is contained in 1.54 million square km of deep-water regions, or sea areas with depths of over 300 meters.

However, most of China's current offshore oil exploration is conducted less than 300 meters below the surface.

The South China Sea is estimated to have 23 billion to 30 billion tonnes of oil and 16 trillion cubic meters of natural gas, accounting for one-third of China's total oil and gas resources.

CNOOC 981 oil rig can reach 10, 000m


video
05-09-2012 08:39 BJT 

The first deep-water drilling rig developed in China is set to begin work in the South China Sea. China National Offshore Oil Corporation said the CNOOC 981 will be the first independent deep-water oil drilling by a Chinese company.

Operations will begin on Wednesday in waters around 320 kilometres south-east of Hong Kong at a depth of 1, 500 meters. About 70 percent of oil and gas reserves in the resource-rich South China Sea are contained in areas with depths of over 300 meters. 

But most of China&#8217;s current offshore oil exploration is conducted in water depths less than that. The South China Sea is estimated to account for one-third of China&#8217;s total oil and gas resources. 





Photo taken on May 7, 2012 shows the sixth-generation semi-submersible CNOOC 981 at
the South China Sea, 320 kilometers southeast of Hong Kong, south China. The CNOOC
981 will begin operations in a sea area at a water depth of 1,500 meters, China
National Offshore Oil Corp. (CNOOC) said in a press release. This is the first
deep-water drilling rig developed in China. 






Photo taken on May 7, 2012 shows the sixth-generation semi-submersible CNOOC 981 at
the South China Sea in China, 320 kilometers southeast of Hong Kong, south China.
The CNOOC 981 will begin operations in a sea area at a water depth of 1,500 meters,
China National Offshore Oil Corp. (CNOOC) said in a press release. This is the first
deep-water drilling rig developed in China.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## yusheng

China's 1st deep-water rig to begin operations in sea area

vedio



Play Video 2


The first deep-water drilling rig developed in China will be put into service in the South China Sea this morning, said the country&#8217;s largest offshore oil producer China&#8217;s National Offshore Oil Cooperation, or CNOOC. The sixth-generation semi-submersible CNOOC 981 will begin operation in a sea area 320 kilometers southeast of Hong Kong, at a water depth of 1,500 meters.

It will be the first independent deep-water oil drilling done by a Chinese company.





Photo taken on May 8, 2012 shows central control room of the sixth-generation semi
-submersible CNOOC 981 at the South China Sea, 320 kilometers southeast of Hong Kong,
south China. The CNOOC 981 will begin operations in a sea area at a water depth of
1,500 meters, China National Offshore Oil Corp. (CNOOC) said in a press release. This
is the first deep-water drilling rig developed in China. (Xinhua/Jin Liangkuai) 


The "CNOOC 981" can dig as deep as 10,000 meters underground. The deck platform is as big as a football field. It weighs more than 30,000 tons and stands over 136 meters tall. With advanced technology, it is called the "Aircraft carrier" of ocean equipment.

The CNOOC 981 took 6 years to build. It was towed to the east part of the South China Sea in February for a trial operation.

The South China Sea is estimated to have at least 23 billion tons of oil and 16 trillion cubic meters of natural gas, accounting for one-third of China&#8217;s total oil and gas resources.

About 70 percent of oil and gas reserves in the resource-rich South China Sea is contained in sea areas with depths of over 300 meters.

At present, most of China&#8217;s current offshore oil exploration is conducted less than 300 meters below the surface.

China&#8217;s dependence on oil imports has always been a source of concern for the government, which has actively been pushing its oil and gas companies to explore existing reserves and branch out overseas.

In 2011, China imported 57% of the oil it consumed.





A technician checks the sixth-generation semi-submersible CNOOC 981 at the South
China Sea, 320 kilometers southeast of Hong Kong, south China, May 8, 2012.
(Xinhua/Jin Liangkuai)

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## WuMaoCleverbot

HongWu said:


> Ready for agent orange spraying?
> 
> 
> How pathetic. EU said nothing about backing Philippines!
> 
> Brussels firmly supports "a rules-based and peaceful resolution of disputes in the said maritime area in accordance with international law."
> 
> EU to PH: We support peace in South China Sea
> 
> Pinoys go home losing to China again



Philippine claim is based on international law while China's ridiculous 9-dash claim is not supported by any international law. We support peace while China wants the SCS disputes be settled by coercion, economic, political and/or military pressures.

To sum up

1. No International Law supports China's 9 dash claim

2. No Legitimate country supports China's 9 dash claim

3. Modern Historical and Archaeological findings contradicts with China's Historical Claim


Maybe you should read these:

*No LEGITIMATE Country Supports China&#8217;s 9 Dash Claim

They want International Law to be used SPECIFICALLY UNCLOS which CHINA SIGNED!
*
ASEAN (CAMBODIA, MYANMAR, BURMA, Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, Vietnam, Singapore, Brunei, Philippines)
Six-point principle reiterates ASEAN

ASEAN countries have agreed on the bloc&#8217;s six-point principles which include: Full implementation of the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the East Sea (2002) and using International Law to settle dispute, including the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS)

RUSSIA 

Del Rosario meets Russian counterpart in Moscow visit | Inquirer Global Nation

Russia Pronounce its support to the Philippines over Spratly disputes with china and other claimants. Russia is supporting the Philippines' stand that RULES based on transparency and diplomacy should be used to resolve maritime issues.


INDIA 

The Hindu : News : India for peaceful resolution of South China sea dispute

International Law must be used to resolve dispute

EUROPEAN UNION

EU ready to play vital role in West Philippine Sea dispute | New Europe

EU-Asia Center director Fraser Cameron said during a forum in Manila that the EU supports a rules-based international system and liberty of navigation. The EU believes that territorial disputes should be resolved &#8220;in accordance with international law"

NEW ZEALAND

New Zealand backs Philippine position on Spratlys | Inquirer Global Nation

New Zealand backs Philippine position on Spratlys

New Zealand supports the position of the Philippines and other allies that claimants to the Spratly chain of islands must heed the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS)

MALAYSIA

http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/global-filipino/world/05/29/12/malaysia-backs-ph-dispute-vs-china

Malaysia is supporting the Philippines' stand that Manila's dispute with China over ownership of Scarborough shoal should be resolved based on the United Nations Convention on Law of the Sea (UNCLOS)

VIETNAM 
Vietnamese Back Philippines

1) Support for the &#8220;sovereign rights&#8221; of the Philippines in the Scarborough Shoal.
2) Opposition to China&#8217;s use of the &#8220;nine-dashed line&#8221; to make overlapping claims with the Exclusive Economic Zones and continental shelves of the Philippines, Vietnam and other ASEAN countries, as well as opposition to &#8220;China&#8217;s actions and threats of force,&#8221; 
3) Support for the Philippines&#8217; proposal to submit the dispute at Scarborough Shoal to the International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea (ITLOS).

JAPAN

Philippines gets Japan support on Spratlys dispute | Inquirer Global Nation

President Aquino and Noda &#8220;confirmed that freedom of navigation, unimpeded commerce, and compliance with established international law including the UNCLOS and the peaceful settlement of disputes serve the interests of the two countries and the whole region.&#8221; 

AUSTRALIA

Philippine News The #1 Newspaper Since 1961

Australia said those involved in the territorial dispute &#8212; Brunei, China, Malaysia, Philippines, and Taiwan &#8212; should adhere to UNCLOS, which codifies the international law of the sea.


USA

Hillary Clinton: Stop using intimidation in asserting Spratlys claims | Sun.Star

They should be following international law, the rule of law, the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (Unclos),

INDONESIA

http://www.businessmirror.com.ph/home/nation/20700-indonesia-supports-phl-stand-on-spratlys

Indonesia supports PHL stand on Spratlys

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

yusheng said:


> China's first deep-water rig to drill in South China Sea
> 
> we are there
> 05-07-2012 22:18 BJT
> BEIJING, May 7 (Xinhua) --
> 
> The first deep-water drilling rig developed in China will be put into service in the South China Sea on Wednesday, the country's largest offshore oil producer said Monday.
> 
> The sixth-generation semi-submersible CNOOC 981 will begin operations in a sea area 320 kilometers southeast of Hong Kong at a water depth of 1,500 meters, China National Offshore Oil Corp. (CNOOC) said in a press release.



No matter if China drills oil or naval exercise within China's EEZs. But if they do that within of Vietnam's EEZs (within 200nm from Vietnam's coast), we'll shoot to sink it by our coast missiles systems.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Viet

The greedy Chinese have set up some oil blocks in the for Vietnam UN approved economic limits?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## HongWu

Viet said:


> The greedy Chinese have set up some oil blocks in the for Vietnam UN approved economic limits?


UN doesn't have Type 052D with land-attack cruise missiles. Keep hoping somebody will come save you.


----------



## Zero_wing

HongWu said:


> UN doesn't have Type 052D with land-attack cruise missiles. Keep hoping somebody will come save you.



Still waiting for you to break our backs

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## yusheng

China maritime vessel "Haixun 31" to visit US

09-05-2012 00:21 BJT 

Watch Video
Play Video
Chinese Maritime Safety Administration (MSA) ship the &#8217;Haixun 31&#8217; will arrive in Hawaii for a 5-day visit at the invitation of the US Coast Guard. 

The Haixun 31 is to be met by a parade of ships that include the Coast Guard Cutter Galveston Island and a fireboat from the Honolulu Fire Department, the "Moku Ahi." The Chinese Maritime Safety Administration and the US Coast Guard are scheduled to conduct a joint search and rescue table top exercise and an on-water exercise in Honolulu. These exercises will serve as the building blocks for a cooperative partnership and facilitate discussions on maritime search and rescue and environmental protection. 

When commenting on the first visit to the US by a chinese maritime vessel, Commander of 14th Coast Guard District Rear. Adm, Charles Ray called this an opportunity to strengthen the two sides&#8217; relationship on a number of common maritime missions. He added that the "historic engagement further improves the coordination of search and rescue operations at sea".

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## yusheng

China, US conduct sea exercise in Hawaii

09-07-2012 20:21 BJT 



Play Video

A Chinese Maritime Safety Administration ship has made a historic visit to Honolulu of the United States to improve civilian maritime cooperation. The Chinese ship, together with the US coast guard, has conducted a joint search and rescue exercise. 

Chinas Haixun 31 patrol boat pulls out of Honolulu harbour, with U.S. Coast Guard officers as well as officials from Chinas Maritime Safety Administration, or MSA, on board.





Visiting Chinese Maritime Safety Administration ship, Haixun 31, and the U.S. Coast 
Guard conducted a joint search and rescue excise at 10 a.m., on Sept. 6 (U.S. local
time) in Honolulu. This is the first time that the two sides have teamed up to 
conduct sea exercise. (People's Daily Online Photo) 


The Hiaxun 31 is in Hawaii on a historic visit - the first by an MSA ship to the United States - to conduct this search-and-rescue drill with the U.S. Coast Guard. As part of the exercise, two MSA officers travelled on the Coast Guards ship, the Galveston Island.

A few hours earlier, the Coast Guard left a dummy adrift in the Pacific Ocean to act as a hypothetical stranded person. A search helicopter from the Haixun 31 scoured the waters until the crew located the dummy and brought it back to the Chinese ship, where a Coast Guard helicopter later lifted it to safety.

The idea of course is that cooperation between the two countries will go well beyond controlled situations just a few kilometers off the coast of Hawaii. Under international maritime agreements, the United States has rights to patrol thousands of kilometers of the Pacific Ocean, as does China, so there is huge scope for these kinds of joint operations in the future. 

The benefit today is the development of communications we need in order to effectively manage rescue at sea.

Captain Jonathan Rice, US coast guard, said, "Doing exercises like these will help lay the groundwork for better communications and coordination in the future.

There are no scheduled plans as of now, but the next step for the Chinese-US maritime relationship could be for a Coast Guard to make a similar visit to China.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Fanling Monk

*Chinese navy completes military drill in the Pacific*


The North Sea Fleet of the People's Liberation Army Navy has completed a military exercise in western areas of the Pacific Ocean.

The exercise was the first large-scale action aimed at testing the coordination between different forces.

A seven-vessel fleet participated in the exercise, China Central Television reported. A number of records were broken in the exercise, which was conducted in early and mid October, the report said.

The exercise focused on defense techniques against warplanes and submarines, according to the PLA Daily.

The fleet, with the Harbin as its commanding ship, conducted multi-disciplinary training in different areas of the west Pacific after it entered the ocean through the Miyako Strait, an important waterway linking the East China Sea and the Pacific.


Chinese navy completes military drill in the Pacific - People's Daily Online











































Even though they are preparing for combats but are unlikely to be used. Our CMS are capable enough to handle the enemies in the SCS and East China Sea.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zero_wing

Fanling Monk said:


> *Chinese navy completes military drill in the Pacific*
> 
> 
> The North Sea Fleet of the People's Liberation Army Navy has completed a military exercise in western areas of the Pacific Ocean.
> 
> The exercise was the first large-scale action aimed at testing the coordination between different forces.
> 
> A seven-vessel fleet participated in the exercise, China Central Television reported. A number of records were broken in the exercise, which was conducted in early and mid October, the report said.
> 
> The exercise focused on defense techniques against warplanes and submarines, according to the PLA Daily.
> 
> The fleet, with the Harbin as its commanding ship, conducted multi-disciplinary training in different areas of the west Pacific after it entered the ocean through the Miyako Strait, an important waterway linking the East China Sea and the Pacific.
> 
> 
> Chinese navy completes military drill in the Pacific - People's Daily Online
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even though they are preparing for combats but are unlikely to be used. Our CMS are capable enough to handle the enemies in the SCS and East China Sea.



Wow excellent intel thank guys


----------



## EastSea

Zero_wing said:


> Wow excellent intel thank guys



MSU News: U.S. military seeks more access in Philippines.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## yusheng

China is going to uproot the small islands on SCS

There are too many small island on SCS, when PLA take them back, China decided to uproot them by giant machines, and willl collect the rocks and sands to build up one bigger island in some good position.










this is sand collect ship, 166 meter long, propelled by 22320kw engine, can collect sand 29830 tons in an hour from the 90 meters deep. 










this is rock digger ship, propelled by 19700kw engine, see its head digger, which has 4200kw power, can eat coral reef like cracker.

both ships can transport sands and rock they collect to indicated position, now we can choose a good position to build a good big island in SCS.

in the next 30 years, SCS will have an other look.

of course it is none of U.S. business. thank god if U.S. can get rid of its financial crises without China help.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## yusheng

China speeds up construction of newly founded city of Sansha

09-29-2012 22:15 BJT 
Text:A A A |Email More Sharing ServicesShare | Share on facebookShare on myspaceShare on googleShare on twitter

VIDEO: Construction work in Sansha City well underway


SANSHA, Sept. 29 (Xinhua) -- Authorities with the newly established city of Sansha, located in the South China Sea, on Saturday began mapping out development plans for four infrastructure projects and started a housing program as the building of the island city revs up.





Photo taken on July 24, 2012 shows a coast of Yongxing Island, south China's Hainan Province. A ceremony marking the inauguration of Sansha, China's southernmost city, took place Tuesday on Yongxing Island. The island, the largest of the Xisha Islands and in the South China Sea, is the seat of the municipal government of the newly established archipelago city. 


The infrastructure projects include road construction, water supply and drainage on Yongxing Island, where the city government is seated.

According to the plan, seven roads with a total length of five kilometers will be repaired or built to improve the island's traffic situation.

Meanwhile, a desalinator capable of processing 1,000 cubic meters of seawater a day will be built on the island to ensure fresh water supplies.

The projects also include the construction of inter-island transportation and a dock, as well as the development of Zhaoshu Island.

On Saturday, Mayor of Sansha Xiao Jie announced the beginning of a housing construction program with a total investment of 18.7 million yuan (2.97 million U.S. dollars).

Sansha was officially set up on July 24 on Yongxing Island to administer the Xisha, Zhongsha and Nansha islands and their surrounding waters in the South China Sea.

Over the past two months, the government has been working to build the island into a city of harmony between human and nature, said Zhang Geng, executive vice mayor of Sansha

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## yusheng

Infrastructure boost planned for China's youngest city

10-26-2012 15:45 BJT 
Text:A A A |Email More Sharing ServicesShare | Share on facebookShare on myspaceShare on googleShare on twitter

video

ideo 2

HAIKOU, Oct. 26 (Xinhua) -- Plans have been announced to speed up infrastructure construction in the newly established Sansha City in the South China Seato fully tap into the island city's rich natural resources.

"We will accelerate construction projects in Sansha in sectors including traffic, telecommunication, water and electricity supply, logistics and sewage treatment," said Jiang Dingzhi, governor of China's southernmost province of Hainan, home to Sansha.







Speaking at a conference on oceanic exploitation on Thursday, he said the province will also prioritize building service bases for resource development.

Further support will be given to develop the fishery, tourism, gas and oil sectors, according to the governor.

China's youngest city, officially set up in July on Yongxing Island to administer the Xisha, Zhongsha and Nansha islands and their surrounding waters, is planning four infrastructure projects and started a housing program last month.

The projects include road construction, water supply and drainage on Yongxing Island, where the city government is seated.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

*Ancient documents prove Vietnams control over Paracel Islands (photo)*

VietNamNet Bridge  Many documents dated back to the 18th and early 20th centuries, which are published in the Hoang Sa (Paracel Islands) Yearbook, demonstrate Vietnams uninterrupted management over this archipelago.





An instruction issued by a general of the Tay Son Dynasty dated February 14, 1786, instructed the Hoang Sa flotilla to send four boats to Hoang Sa to carry gold, silver, bronze and seafood products to the capital.





A document discovered in My Loi village, Phu Loc district in the central province of Thua Thien-Hue with contents of a lawsuit between My Toan and An Bang wards over the dispute of a broken ship of the Hoang Sa flotilla which drifted into the shore. According to this document, the Hoang Sa flotilla operated in 1760, under the reign of King Le Hien Tong. This flotilla was responsible to manage and explore specialties from Hoang Sa Archipelago. The document was in Chinese scripts, on day do (do paper).





A four-page document preserved by the Dang family on Ly Son Island of the central province of Quang Ngai, which noted that on April 15, 1834, Quang Ngai officials sent three ships to guard Hoang Sa Archipelago. Researchers said that this document contains valuable information, including the names and the hometown of each soldier.





A wood-block of the Nguyen Dynasty, in the Dai Nam Thuc Luc Chinh Bien De Nhi Ky historical book, 1836, noted that Hoang Sa was part of Vietnams territory.





One of the reports of Da Nang authorities dated June 26, 1830, sent to the court said that Vietnamese soldiers on Hoang Sa archipelago rescued a French cargo ship in Hoang Sa waters.





A report to King Minh Mang dated July 13, 1837 about a trip to Hoang Sa of the Hoang Sa flotilla.





Another report dated June 21, 1838, to the King about the exploration and mapping of Hoang Sa Archipelago.





Instruction No.10 of King Bao Dai on the transfer of Hoang Sa Archipelago from Quang Ngai province to Thua Thien provinces management.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## yusheng

unfortunately&#65292;east sea&#65292;all documents you show here are in Chinese, you can not read them&#65292; understand them. should i translate for you?


----------



## Fanling Monk

Zero_wing said:


> Wow excellent intel thank guys




You're very much welcome, Bro. You see, by show you our cards, we want sound judgements from Aquino so that he won't go over his head thinking of some irrational actions. No matter how much arms he buys will not be enough to counter us but it should be enough to deter Vietnam from further infringe on you precious properties though.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## djsjs

EastSea said:


> *Ancient documents prove Vietnam&#8217;s control over Paracel Islands (photo)*
> 
> VietNamNet Bridge &#8211; Many documents dated back to the 18th and early 20th centuries, which are published in the Hoang Sa (Paracel Islands) Yearbook, demonstrate Vietnam&#8217;s uninterrupted management over this archipelago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An instruction issued by a general of the Tay Son Dynasty dated February 14, 1786, instructed the Hoang Sa flotilla to send four boats to Hoang Sa to carry gold, silver, bronze and seafood products to the capital.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A document discovered in My Loi village, Phu Loc district in the central province of Thua Thien-Hue with contents of a lawsuit between My Toan and An Bang wards over the dispute of a broken ship of the Hoang Sa flotilla which drifted into the shore. According to this document, the Hoang Sa flotilla operated in 1760, under the reign of King Le Hien Tong. This flotilla was responsible to manage and explore specialties from Hoang Sa Archipelago. The document was in Chinese scripts, on day do (do paper).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A four-page document preserved by the Dang family on Ly Son Island of the central province of Quang Ngai, which noted that on April 15, 1834, Quang Ngai officials sent three ships to guard Hoang Sa Archipelago. Researchers said that this document contains valuable information, including the names and the hometown of each soldier.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A wood-block of the Nguyen Dynasty, in the Dai Nam Thuc Luc Chinh Bien De Nhi Ky historical book, 1836, noted that Hoang Sa was part of Vietnam&#8217;s territory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of the reports of Da Nang authorities dated June 26, 1830, sent to the court said that Vietnamese soldiers on Hoang Sa archipelago rescued a French cargo ship in Hoang Sa waters.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A report to King Minh Mang dated July 13, 1837 about a trip to Hoang Sa of the Hoang Sa flotilla.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another report dated June 21, 1838, to the King about the exploration and mapping of Hoang Sa Archipelago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Instruction No.10 of King Bao Dai on the transfer of Hoang Sa Archipelago from Quang Ngai province to Thua Thien province&#8217;s management.


good ,these pictures can prove vietnam was part of China.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zero_wing

Fanling Monk said:


> You're very much welcome, Bro. You see, by show you our cards, we want sound judgements from Aquino so that he won't go over his head thinking of some irrational actions. No matter how much arms he buys will not be enough to counter us but it should be enough to deter Vietnam from further infringe on you precious properties though.




So what? like you guys can do anything but just say bad talk to other people! You still don't get do you you never have any effective control over the west sea why? because its impossible you have a lot of people in that area are you telling me you people are willing to kills all of Asia to have a body of water plus your actions are now building a higher anti chineses sentiments on key players in the area expect your client states , The only thing saving you people are foreign investments your country which by the why sir is moving out of china since your pay roll is on the rise so that shield of yours is not being remove so keep this up your threats and again thanks for the intel our MPAC's and our new CF18 will know who and how now hehehehehe

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## EastSea

yusheng said:


> unfortunately&#65292;east sea&#65292;all documents you show here are in Chinese, you can not read them&#65292; understand them. should i translate for you?



Yes, unfortunately we has been used Hanji for writing in the past. Atleast educated Chinese can understand all this documents and know that Islands belong to Vietnam from ancient time.
I learnt Hanji for my hoppy, I can translate my Family History book (&#23478;&#35676 in to Vietnamese writing with Latin Alphabet.



djsjs said:


> good ,these pictures can prove vietnam was part of China.



Chinese invaded in to Vietnam around thousand years, we have been wipped you from Vietnam around thousand year. We will take back our Islands Paracel in future.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## djsjs

EastSea said:


> Chinese invaded in to Vietnam around thousand years, we have been wipped you from Vietnam around thousand year. We will take back our Islands Paracel in future.



I was in a cold sweat for your declaration of war.if we both want to solve the dispute by war,god knows what hell will happen.but at least i am sure that no insurance company will give you guarantee that vietnam will still in the world map after the next war,especially if the opponent is China.

as for myself ,i hope every of our bombs are made for japan and one day bloom beautiful flowers there.Our army did not practice for too long a time.the next sparring is destined to be the most tragic.hope Vietnam's luck is not so bad!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ahfatzia

Taiping Island, owned and administered by Taiwan since 1946. Although not as developed as Vietnam's Spratly, it has the most potent air force in SCS. Now she's extending the runway and moves some of her naval assets there.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## applesauce

EastSea said:


> Yes, unfortunately we has been used Hanji for writing in the past. Atleast educated Chinese can understand all this documents and know that Islands belong to Vietnam from ancient time.
> I learnt Hanji for my hoppy, I can translate my Family History book (&#23478;&#35676 in to Vietnamese writing with Latin Alphabet.
> 
> 
> 
> Chinese invaded in to Vietnam around thousand years, we have been wipped you from Vietnam around thousand year. We will take back our Islands Paracel in future.




so if the islands were Vietnamese, and Vietnam was a part of china that would mean the island were in fact Chinese. now Vietnam eventually gain independence from china however than in no ways support vietnams claims on the islands


----------



## EastSea

djsjs said:


> I was in a cold sweat for your declaration of war.if we both want to solve the dispute by war,god knows what hell will happen.but at least i am sure that no insurance company will give you guarantee that vietnam will still in the world map after the next war,especially if the opponent is China.
> 
> as for myself ,i hope every of our bombs are made for japan and one day bloom beautiful flowers there.Our army did not practice for too long a time.the next sparring is destined to be the most tragic.hope Vietnam's luck is not so bad!



China robbed Paracel of Vietnam 1974 with force, it was illegal action under rules of international law what china signed.

I don't think China can atack Japan.



ahfatzia said:


> Taiping Island, owned and administered by Taiwan since 1946. Although not as developed as Vietnam's Spratly, it has the most potent air force in SCS. Now she's extending the runway and moves some of her naval assets there.



Itu Aba was controlled by Vietnam from ancient time.





Before WW II there was Radio communication of Vietnam (under protectorate of France). 1939 Japan occupied Itu Aba. 
KMT ROC withdrawn from Itu Aba after Chongjing aggreement signed with France 1946, accepted that Ba Binh (Itu Aba) and Spratly Islands belong to Vietnam. 1956 Taiwan robbed again Itu Aba with force, it was also illegal action of aggressor.



applesauce said:


> so if the islands were Vietnamese, and Vietnam was a part of china that would mean the island were in fact Chinese. now Vietnam eventually gain independence from china however than in no ways support vietnams claims on the islands



China invaded in to Vietnam as aggressor, temporally. Vietnam regained Independence from China 938 year AC, including Islands belong to Vietnam from ancient time. In the past China's Dynasties accepted and Chinese called our East Sea: Jiao Zhi Sea, the Sea of Jiao Zhi People (Vietnamese today) and China maps printed in the past didn't included Islands of Vietnam.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

ahfatzia said:


> Taiping Island, owned and administered by *Taiwan *since 1946. Although not as developed as Vietnam's Spratly, it has the most potent air force in SCS. Now she's extending the runway and moves some of her naval assets there.




Relax...Taiwan and Vietnam are friends, I don´t see any future confrontations between them.


----------



## ahfatzia

Viet said:


> Relax...Taiwan and Vietnam are friends, I don´t see any future confrontations between them.




Hey it's not me that worrying about you guys. There got to be a reason why Taiwan arms Taiping to the teeth after all.


----------



## Rechoice

ahfatzia said:


> Hey it's not me that worrying about you guys. There got to be a reason why Taiwan arms Taiping to the teeth after all.



Problem for us is aggressive extremists in mainland China.
Vietnam has right to take back Itu Aba, becouse it belong to Vietnam under rule of international law.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Rechoice said:


> Problem for us is aggressive extremists in mainland China.
> Vietnam has right to take back Itu Aba, becouse it belong to Vietnam under rule of international law.



We wish you could go ahead and take it, it will provide us a good excuse to teach you a good lesson, meanwhile allow us to regain the direct control of the Taiping Island from KMT.


----------



## ahfatzia

Rechoice said:


> Problem for us is aggressive extremists in mainland China.
> Vietnam has right to take back Itu Aba, becouse it belong to Vietnam under rule of international law.




I don't who should I believe, you or you fellow compatriot Viet, because he said no and you say yes. But no matter, as I said before, Taiwan is arming Taiping to the teeth and if Vietnam tries to start something she might loose a couple of islands in the SCS.


----------



## Rechoice

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> We wish you could go ahead and take it, it will provide us a good excuse to teach you a good lesson, meanwhile allow us to regain the direct control of the Taiping Island from KMT.



You have to learn the lession about the rules of international law and obey it first and hand back Islands of Vietnam. China is illegally robbed with force, this action is no permitted.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

121110-N-ZZ999-035

121110-N-ZZ999-035 *PHILIPPINE SEA* (*Nov. 10, 2012*) Sailors aboard the U.S. Navy&#8217;s forward-deployed aircraft carrier USS George Washington (CVN 73) attach crates of ordnance to a MH-60S helicopter from the &#8220;Island Knights&#8221; of Helicopter Sea Combat Squadron (HSC) 25 during a replenishment-at-sea with the Military Sealift Command dry cargo and ammunition ship USNS Amelia Earhart (T-AKE 6). George Washington and its embarked air wing, Carrier Air Wing (CVW) 5 work together to support and defend the collective maritime interests of the U.S. and its allies and partners in the Asia-Pacific region. (U.S. Navy photo by Damage Controlman Fireman Hilary Payton/RELEASED)

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## gpit

Many Vietnamese in this forum are so bellicose and belligerent, yet ignorant and history-less &#8211; never seen in real life... really an eye opener

Untrustworthy.


----------



## Rechoice

History evidences approved that Islands belong to Vietnam from ancient time, Vietnam controlled peacefully in may hundreds year with out trouble with China.
Only bellicose and belligerent, brainwashed ignorant and history-less chinese threaten and bullying by posting idiot things here on PDF.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

gpit said:


> Many Vietnamese in this forum are so bellicose and belligerent, yet ignorant and history-less &#8211; never seen in real life... really an eye opener
> 
> Untrustworthy.



No, We Vietnamese are always friendly and hospitable with friends, but we always fight steadfastly against the invaders. If any greedy enemy wants to invade our territories and waters, we'll spank them as usual (like we have done many times for Chinese, 3 times for Mongolian, one time for France, one time for USA and one time for Khmer Rouge...). We dont have many resources, but we fought with understanding instead of stupid Human Wave tactic!

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Viet

ahfatzia said:


> *I don't who should I believe,* you or you fellow compatriot Viet, because he said no and you say yes. But no matter, as I said before, Taiwan is arming Taiping to the teeth and if Vietnam tries to start something she might loose a couple of islands in the SCS.




The Vietnamese government repeatly declares, it does not seek a military solution and does not threaten using force. All current disputes are subject of negotiations. End of the story.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

djsjs said:


> I was in a cold sweat for your declaration of war.if we both want to solve the dispute by war,god knows what hell will happen.but at least i am sure that no insurance company will give you guarantee that *vietnam will still in the world map after the next war,especially if the opponent is China.
> *
> as for myself ,i hope every of our bombs are made for japan and one day bloom beautiful flowers there.Our army did not practice for too long a time.the next sparring is destined to be the most tragic.hope Vietnam's luck is not so bad!




That doesn´t sound nice to me. Care your words! 

Personally I don´t see any risks of armed confrontations between us and all other claimants in this f... dispute. Not yet and nor in the future. A war between China and Japan is more likely. Again, the official policy of Vietnamese government is a peaceful approach.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## NiceGuy

djsjs said:


> I was in a cold sweat for your declaration of war.if we both want to solve the dispute by war,god knows what hell will happen.but at least i am sure that no insurance company will give you guarantee that *vietnam will still in the world map after the next war*,especially if the opponent is China.


That's why,people don't highly appreciate China's IQ here,lots of Chinese clowns like you, Hongwu,Sino Challenge etc 

My suggestion is: read again 'Story of Ah Q ' if you forget your national character

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## djsjs

NiceGuy said:


> That's why,people don't highly appreciate China's IQ here,lots of Chinese clowns like you, Hongwu,Sino Challenge etc
> 
> My suggestion is: read again 'Story of Ah Q ' if you forget your national character



whether you agree what i told you ,it is truth.accept it........as you accept born in vietnam.something in the world are unchangeable for us.
history show us a warlike Vietnam.No matter how you hide it.....


----------



## NiceGuy

djsjs said:


> whether you agree what i told you ,it is truth.accept it........as you accept born in vietnam.something in the world are unchangeable for us.
> history show us a warlike Vietnam.No matter how you hide it.....


Yeah, I also accept that Ah Q's character (big mouth and coward )is your national character 


> The story traces the "adventures" of Ah Q, a man from the rural peasant class with little education and no definite occupation. Ah Q is *famous for "spiritual victories",* Lu Xun's euphemism for *self-talk and self-deception even when faced with extreme defeat or humiliation.* Ah Q is a bully to the less fortunate but fearful of those who are above him in rank, strength, or power. He persuades himself mentally that h*e is spiritually "superior" to his oppressors* even as he succumbs to their tyranny and suppression. Lu Xun exposes Ah Q's extreme faults as symptomatic of the Chinese national character of his time. The ending of the piece &#8211; when Ah Q is carted off to execution for a minor crime &#8211; is equally poignant and satirical.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_True_Story_of_Ah_Q

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ahfatzia

*US remains neutral in S. and E. China seas *









*US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and Australian Foreign Minister Senator Bob Carr Wednesday reaffirmed their countries' neutrality on territorial disputes across the South and East China seas.*

*In the official AUSMIN 2012 Joint Communique, the United States and Australia said both nations sought a peaceful resolution to South and East China sea disputes while also welcoming a "strong, prosperous and peaceful China, which plays a constructive role in promoting regional security and prosperity."*

*Senator Carr told reporters in Perth that the meetings included "no language of containment" regarding China and that the United States and Australia "do not take sides on competing territorial claims."
*
The official communique stressed the importance of respecting sovereign territory.

*"We reaffirmed that we do not take a position on competing territorial claims in the South China Sea. We share a common interest, with other members of the international community, in the maintenance of peace and stability, respect for international law, freedom of navigation, and unimpeded lawful commerce."*

*"We reaffirmed that we do not take a position on competing claims for sovereignty in the East China Sea and urged that the issue be resolved through peaceful means."*

Clinton also stressed that increased cooperation with China is mutually beneficial to all stakeholders in the Asia-Pacific.

*"So this is not a zero sum competition,"* she said, adding *"The entire region can benefit from a peaceful rise of China and as I' ve said many times we welcome a strong and prosperous China that plays a constructive and greater role in world affairs."*

*"The Pacific is big enough for all of us,"* Clinton also said.

AUSMIN is the annual forum for bilateral consultations, held alternating between Australia and the United States.

US remains neutral in S. and E. China seas - China.org.cn


The Dow has plunged since the reelection of Obama and haven't have a single up day as of today. The 'big money' will not fully participate in the market until there are signs that the US and China are on the same track economically and geopolitical. 

China has always welcome the US as a partner and hopefully, this is the first sign the US wants to reciprocate in kind since the election.


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

ahfatzia said:


> *US remains neutral in S. and E. China seas *
> 
> *The official communique stressed the importance of respecting sovereign territory.*
> 
> *"We reaffirmed that we do not take a position on competing territorial claims in the South China Sea. We share a common interest, with other members of the international community, in the maintenance of peace and stability, respect for international law, freedom of navigation, and unimpeded lawful commerce."*



Just the things above will be done. Southeast Asian countries and Japan welcome these things.

Bravo to the world police!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

ahfatzia said:


> *US remains neutral in S. and E. China seas *
> 
> "So this is not a zero sum competition," she said, adding "The entire region can benefit from* a peaceful rise of China* and as I' ve said many times we welcome a strong and prosperous China that plays a constructive and greater role in world affairs."
> *"The Pacific is big enough for all of us,"* Clinton also said.




I hope all the best for a peaceful rise of China, and find the remark from the US secretary of States of "The Pacific is big enough for all of us" very interesting. I believe it is the first time that someone from the US government said it. A clear goahead sign for China.


----------



## WuMaoCleverbot

*SPECIAL REPORT | Subic: It looks like a US base, it acts like a US base, but is it a US base?*
By: John O'Callaghan and Manuel Mogato, Reuters
November 14, 2012 1:21 PM

Excerpt:
SUBIC BAY, Philippines - From his office window, Roberto Garcia watches workers repair the USS Emory S. Land, a submarine support vessel that is part of a US military buildup as Washington turns its attention to fast-growing Asia and a newly assertive China.

The Philippines, Australia and other parts of the region have seen a resurgence of US warships, planes and personnel since President Barack Obama announced a "pivot" in foreign, economic and security policy towards Asia late last year.

Washington insists the shift is not about containing China or a permanent return to military bases of the past. But it is sometimes tough to tell the difference at Subic Bay, a deepwater port near vital sea lanes and border disputes in the South China Sea that have raised tensions between China and Southeast Asian nations.

"Every month we have ships coming. A few weeks ago, we had the submarines, we've had the aircraft carriers," said Garcia, chairman of the Subic Bay Metropolitan Authority, which oversees an economic zone built on the former US base. "They cannot find this kind of facility anywhere else in Asia."

The territorial tensions and the US shift towards the region will be high on the agenda when Obama visits Southeast Asia in coming days.

The Pentagon says the United States has "no intention of re-establishing bases in the Philippines."

But activity in Subic, a breezy coastal city about 80 kilometers (50 miles) north of Manila that has the feel of a tidy American suburb with shopping malls, fast-food outlets and well-lit streets, resembles a buildup.

As of October, 70 US Navy ships had passed through Subic, more than the 55 in 2011 and the 51 in 2010.

The Pentagon says more than 100 US planes stop over each month at Clark, another former US base located between Manila and Subic.

"It's like leasing a car as opposed to buying it - all the advantages of ownership with a reduced risk," said James Hardy, Asia-Pacific editor of IHS Jane's Defense Weekly.

"If you look at Subic, the US will be leveraging Philippine bases and assets, privately owned assets, and all at a fraction of the monetary and political price of taking back ownership of the base. It gives the US the same strategic reach that basing would have done but without all the hassle."

US forces were evicted from Subic and Clark, the last and largest of their bases in the Philippines, in 1992. They revived close ties from 2000 with war games, frequent visits and by helping against communist and Muslim insurgents.

Emphasizing Subic's renewed role , South Korea's Hanjin Heavy Industries, which has invested $2 billion in the port's shipyards, signed an agreement this spring with AMSEC, a unit of Pentagon contractor Huntington Ingalls Industries, to set up a maintenance and logistics hub to serve US warships.

As a Pacific power, the United States has an interest in freedom of navigation, stability, respect for international law and unimpeded, lawful commerce across sea lanes, said Major Catherine Wilkinson, a Pentagon spokeswoman.

"Our military presence in the region helps to maintain peace and prosperity in the Asia-Pacific," she told Reuters.

SPECIAL REPORT | Subic: It looks like a US base, it acts like a US base, but is it a US base? - InterAksyon.com

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ahfatzia

Viet said:


> I hope all the best for a peaceful rise of China, and find the remark from the US secretary of States of "The Pacific is big enough for all of us" very interesting. I believe it is the first time that someone from the US government said it. A clear goahead sign for China.




LOL I like the way you and Bach Dang pick a line or two from her speech and alter the whole meaning of what she's saying. The whole purpose of her speech is to tell every party that's concerned she'll not be involve in these disputes and support peaceful resolutions. She neither said the US is going to be the policeman nor there's a need to to police this area, after all, these water is not the off shores of Somalia.

Simply put, leave us alone on your petty disputes, we have better things to do.

........
Just as everyone expected her tone changed as soon as the election is over - from a tiger lady to a pu sy cat whereas China is concern.


*US or China? Clinton says Australia needn't choose*


Australia -- U.S. Secretary of State *Hillary Clinton assured Australians they do not have to choose between the United States, their most important security ally, and China, their primary trading partner,* as she ended a visit to the important Pacific ally Thursday.

Clinton and Defense Secretary Leon Panetta were attending an annual security summit with their Australian counterparts, Foreign Minister Bob Carr and Defense Minister Stephen Smith, aimed at deepening military links as the United States shifts its might to the Asia-Pacific.

She used her final speech in Australia in the city of Adelaide, the heartland of Australia's military manufacturing industry, to reject criticisms that Australia's enhanced ties with the United States would come at the cost of its burgeoning relationship with China.

*"I know there are some who present a false choice: That Australia needs to choose between its longstanding ties to the United States and its emerging links with China," *Clinton said.

*"Well, that kind of zero-sum thinking only leads to negative-sum results,"* she added.

Clinton's comments followed a speech on Wednesday by former prime minister* Paul Keating, a hero of the ruling Labor Party, in which he said Australia's "former sphere of influence is diminishing."*

*Keating blamed a lack of foreign policy independence, arguing that Australia had "rolled backed into an easy accommodation with the foreign policy objectives of the United States."
*
Speaking hours before China's new leadership was announced in Beijing, Clinton said the United States supported Australia's foreign policy objectives in the Asia-Pacific region.

*"We support Australia having strong multifaceted ties with every nation in the Asia-Pacific, indeed in the world, including China, just as we seek the same,"* she said.

Full story: http://www.chinapost.com.tw/asia/australia/2012/11/15/361080/US-or.htm

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## NiceGuy

ahfatzia said:


> *US or China? Clinton says Australia needn't choose*
> 
> ]


US is strong but far, China is near and big mouth but weak, so No one need to chose either US or China. 

Shake hand with VietNam to build up an 'ASEAN + +' solidarity is the best choice for all

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ahfatzia

NiceGuy said:


> US is strong but far, China is near and big mouth but weak, so No one need to chose either US or China.
> 
> Shake hand with VietNam to build up an 'ASEAN + +' solidarity is the best choice for all




Actually the choice belongs to your generation. Your elders made the mistake and chose the wrong backer in Soviet Union in the late 60s because its name bears the resembling of 'so Viet'. If they had chosen China the war against the US would've won much earlier with less fatalities and there would no 1979 war as well. The Paracel might become Friendship Isles now a days. 

And your GDP probably at least triple than what's now.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NiceGuy

ahfatzia said:


> Actually the choice belongs to your generation. Your elders* made the mistake* and chose the wrong backer in Soviet Union in the late 60s because its name bears the resembling of 'so Viet'. If they had chosen China the war against the US would've won much earlier with less fatalities and there would no 1979 war as well.
> 
> And your GDP probably at least triple than what's now.


Their mistake was that They couldn't capture Chinese-Thai King in Bangkok, so now, we have to do it again to kick bad Chinese out of ASEAN region for the benefit of 'ASEAN + + 'solidarity


> The Paracel might become Friendship Isles now a days.


Thanks, but no thanks the Paracel belong to us all .


----------



## yusheng

NiceGuy said:


> Their mistake was that They couldn't capture Chinese-Thai King in Bangkok, so now, we have to do it again to kick bad Chinese out of ASEAN region for the benefit of 'ASEAN + + 'solidarity
> 
> Thanks, but no thanks the Paracel belong to us all .





Lol&#65292; seems Viet is the leader of the ASEAN, but in fact, no one seriously takes Viet as a player even in ASEAN, i think this time , viet will be disappointed in this summit again. 

Wait and see.


----------



## EastSea

yusheng said:


> Lol&#65292; seems Viet is the leader of the ASEAN, but in fact, no one seriously takes Viet as a player even in ASEAN, i think this time , viet will be disappointed in this summit again.
> 
> Wait and see.




Cambodia friend can play something to get money from China. China can pay, wait and see. In future Cambodian can say about such Loan from China that: There is dirty money, like Hussen said about such Loan from USA in the past.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

*Hanoi facing false, unfair accusations of ganging up against Beijing*
_Global Times | 2012-11-11 20:35:04
By Bui Hong Phuc | former Vietnam ambassador to China_

As China's neighbor, Vietnam has a better understanding of China than it does of Vietnam. The Vietnamese know that China is an outstanding country with a centuries-old history and splendid civilization. They also remember the material and spiritual help provided by China.

Nowadays, the Vietnamese get their stories about China via newspaper and TV every day, and are glad to see that China has become the second biggest economy in the world.

It's unfortunate that some Chinese don't know enough about Vietnam.

Many groundless accusations - Vietnam is drawing the US into the South China Sea disputes, or the US is making Vietnam an ally to contain China - have repeatedly appeared on Chinese media reports, making Chinese believe such accusations are based on facts.

Seeking an independent, diverse and multilateral diplomacy, trying to make friends with countries all over the world, *never allying with a country to confront another, never joining a military alliance and never allowing other countries to station troops in Vietnam*, are the principles of Vietnam's foreign policy.

Vietnam has stated many times that it won't undertake any military cooperation with other countries in the Cam Ranh Bay.

Every time Vietnam conducts any activity with the US, some Chinese media immediately raise questions such as "Is Vietnam moving toward the US to confront China?"

In fact, compared with the activities between China and the US, the cooperation between Vietnam and the US is not even worth mentioning. Can Vietnam also say that China is allying with the US to confront Vietnam when China and the US cooperate?

The US pivot to Asia is a result of the country's strategic adjustment made out of its own interests.

The *South China Sea* issue is one of three problems left over from the history of Sino-Vietnamese territorial disputes. Through mutual efforts, the land border dispute has been resolved and demarcation of the Beibu Gulf has been completed.

As for the maritime issue, both sides should stick to negotiations, be calm and restrained so as not to affect the stability of the bilateral relations.

China and Vietnam should actively change ideas on transitional and short-term measures of joint cooperation and development and also seek a solution that is acceptable to both sides.

During the period of fighting for national liberation, the two countries supported each other. People from both countries know that friendship should be most valued and maintained in bilateral relations.

The author is former Vietnam ambassador to China. opinion@globaltimes.com.cn

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## HongWu

The new Chinese leadership knows Vietnam cannot be trusted and also knows that Vietnam talks big because it is actually very political fragile and VCP can be overthrown anytime.

At the right moment, our new leader Xi Jinping will put a strangle-hold on Vietnam and cause it to collapse into anarchy. Then we can take over again.


----------



## EastSea

HongWu said:


> The new Chinese leadership knows Vietnam cannot be trusted and also knows that Vietnam talks big because it is actually very political fragile and VCP can be overthrown anytime.
> 
> At the right moment, our new leader Xi Jinping will put a strangle-hold on Vietnam and cause it to collapse into anarchy. Then we can take over again.



I think dictatorship regime in China will collapse first, then Tibet, Xin Gang, Inner Mongolia, Manchu Guo to be independence States. he he.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

cirr said:


> The Vietnamses must love the Americans, for the latter killed hundreds of thousands of the former, burned down thousands of villages and gave the whole country a chemical-wash.
> 
> The Americans are now back!
> 
> In order for the Vietnamses to love the Americans, the latter must redo what it did during the 1960s and 70s.
> 
> Such is the irony and logic of history and human mind.



1979, aggressors chinese killed thousands of innocent Vietnamese, we don't forget that.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## yusheng

Chinese marine troops hold drills

10-24-2012 16:00 BJT 



Play VideoA South China Sea Fleet marine brigade has conducted coordinated drills to practice disembarking from helicopters to ships. 

The exercise involved teams of landing ships, helicopters, tanks, warships, and assault vessels to transfer in difficult waters. The drill aims to speed up boarding for marine troops and strengthen their combat capability. 

After successfully disembarking, the troops quickly took up good positions to shoot at targets. 

At the same time, tanks collaborated with landing ships to board and disembark. 






A South China Sea Fleet marine brigade has conducted coordinated drills to practice
disembarking from helicopters to ships. 







A South China Sea Fleet marine brigade has conducted coordinated drills to practice
disembarking from helicopters to ships. 







A South China Sea Fleet marine brigade has conducted coordinated drills to practice
disembarking from helicopters to ships.


----------



## WuMaoCleverbot

*Philippines to call for common stand on territorial disputes*
By Michael Lim Ubac in Manila/Philippine Daily Inquirer | Asia News Network &#8211; Fri, Nov 16, 2012

Excerpt:
Manila (Philippine Daily Inquirer/ANN) - This time, Philippine President Benigno Aquino III will do the talking in Phnom Penh, Cambodia, and he will insist that Southeast Asian nations take a common stand on territorial disputes with China in the West Philippine Sea (South China Sea).
Aquino leaves for the Cambodian capital today to attend the 21st plenary session of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (Asean) that observers expect will be dominated by a raft of territorial rows.

Philippines to call for common stand on territorial disputes - Yahoo! News Philippines

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zero_wing

EastSea said:


> 1979, aggressors chinese killed thousands of innocent Vietnamese, we don't forget that.



Wow epic fail for our chinese forumers


----------



## Viet

ahfatzia said:


> LOL *I like the way you and Bach Dang pick a line* or two from her speech and alter the whole meaning of what she's saying. The whole purpose of her speech is to tell every party that's concerned she'll not be involve in these disputes and support peaceful resolutions. She neither said the US is going to be the policeman nor there's a need to to police this area, after all, these water is not the off shores of Somalia.
> 
> *Simply put, leave us alone on your petty disputes, we have better things to do.*



He he he...You should better know me, I have some sense of humor, in contrast to some humorless Chinese members here in the forum. Sure, the US says one thing, and does the opposite. Just see their moves ahead of the East Asia summit in Cambodia.

No, the world is not big enough to two superpowers. The US will never leave Asia. China must deal with it.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## applesauce

Syama Ayas said:


> What is the bolded part supposed to mean



there was one incident in which a supposed chinese captain told an indian ships to leave chinese waters in the scs

the broadcast was done in english without a chinese accent
it was over an open channel which any one could access
no proof the person was chinese other than them say "hurr this is chinese captain"
indian ships never saw any chinese ships in vicinity just heard the broadcast
was huge news and "proof" of chinese "agression"

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Kyusuibu Honbu

applesauce said:


> there was one incident in which a supposed chinese captain told an indian ships to leave chinese waters in the scs
> 
> the broadcast was done in english without a chinese accent
> it was over an open channel which any one could access
> no proof the person was chinese other than them say "hurr this is chinese captain"
> indian ships never saw any chinese ships in vicinity just heard the broadcast
> was huge news and "proof" of chinese "agression"



Source for the above incident?


----------



## kurup

Syama Ayas said:


> Source for the above incident?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Bobby

China's pant is wet now.....


----------



## JSCh

Assault ship INS Airavat was not confronted by China: Indian Navy

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

*Still tough on Japan, China takes a softer tack with other countries*
November 17, 2012| asahi.com






_A Chinese flag flies from one of the two newly-finished concrete structures on the Mischief Reef off the disputed Spratlys group of islands in the South China Sea in this aerial photo taken on Feb. 8, 1999. The State Department said that the Chinese construction on the disputed islands is potentially provocative, and urged China to continue direct discussions with all parties involved. China claims the structures are only for their fishermen seeking shelter. (AP Photo) _


The territorial dispute over the *Senkaku *Islands between Japan and China has hurt the Japanese economy, cast doubt on exchange programs between the two nations and led to a wave of animosity from both Chinese and Japanese citizens.

But for other countries embroiled in territorial disputes with Beijing, the row with Japan has provided a breather, as China attempts to garner international support by taking a softer approach in settling these claims.

China's different stances were clearly evident at the Asia-Europe Meeting held in Laos in November.

At a session on Nov. 6, *Prime Minister Yoshihiko Noda *and *Yang Jiechi, China's foreign minister*, exchanged harsh words of criticism over the Senkakus.

At that same session,* Vietnamese Prime Minister* Nguyen Tan Dung said, "Disputes must be resolved based on international law and treaties."

And *Philippine President Benigno Aquino III *said, "Disputes should be resolved fairly based on international law."

In order to deal with territorial disputes in the South China Sea, the Association of Southeast Asian Nations has been seeking to compile a code of conduct that would legally require peaceful resolution of such disputes. The international body has been holding informal talks with China about the issue, but Beijing has taken a passive stance, leading to the comments by Dung and Aquino, even as they stopped short of naming China as the target of their criticism.

In a marked contrast to the harsh words he had for Japan, Yang took a decidedly calmer approach in responding to the Southeast Asian nations.

"China's position has remained consistent based on historical and legal grounds," Yang said. "There have been no issues related to navigational freedom and safety in the South China Sea until now nor will such issues arise in the future."

As recently as April, ships from China and the Philippines were involved in a standoff near the Scarborough Shoal in the South China Sea, leading to a rapid worsening in bilateral relations.

Now, however, there are signs of change.

On Oct. 19, Fu Ying, a vice foreign minister, visited Manila and handed Aquino a message from Chinese President Hu Jintao that said emphasis should be placed on friendly relations between the two nations.

Chinese media described the visit as an "ice-melting" trip.

And Aquino has acknowledged that the situation in the South China Sea has improved considerably.

China has, in fact, temporarily softened its aggressive stance, reducing the number of maritime surveillance ships dispatched to the area.

A high-ranking Philippine government official said one aim behind the more cordial approach in the South China Sea was to avoid being isolated internationally as China deepened its confrontation with Japan.

Vietnam views the development in a similar light.

A government source said, "With China turning its attention to Japan, the aggressive action toward Vietnam has been relaxed, and we are relieved."

*Vietnam launched one of its largest maritime patrol ships* in October with an eye toward China's maritime advances. But rather than only strengthening maritime patrol activities, Vietnam would like nothing better than to avoid stirring up more trouble with China.

Due to these developments, Japanese government officials are concerned about how Cambodia will act as the host of the ASEAN summit that begins on Nov. 18 as well as the East Asia summit to follow.

In the July meeting of ASEAN foreign ministers, Cambodia handled the proceedings in a manner favorable to China.

This seemingly preferential treatment led to resistance from the Philippines and Vietnam, which contributed to the highly unusual development of no joint statement being released at the conclusion of that meeting.

At the *ASEAN *Regional Forum meeting immediately after the foreign ministers' meeting, Cambodia refused to include wording in the chairman's statement about freedom of navigation in the South China Sea that Japan, the United States and Australia had called for. China did not want such wording included.

*The worst-case scenario for Japan* at the East Asia summit will be if the chairman's statement refers to the Senkakus issue as a territorial dispute in response to such requests from China.

While Japan is the largest provider of aid to *Cambodia*, its confidence is now shaky.

On Nov. 5, Noda met with Prime Minister Hun Sen. Foreign Minister Koichiro Genba also sent a letter and other officials, including former ambassadors and a deputy chief Cabinet secretary, have been dispatched to Phnom Penh to ensure the summit proceeds in a favorable direction.

Japan has long been connected to territorial disputes in the South China Sea. During World War II, the Japanese military occupied most of the islands there, but its defeat immediately set off fierce competition for control.

Fuel was added to the fire when bountiful petroleum reserves that China has described as the "second Persian Gulf" were discovered under the sea.

While there are no definitive figures for total petroleum reserves in the South China Sea, a 2008 report by the U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) gave a variety of estimates, including one of 28 billion barrels, made by the U.S. Geological Survey, as well as one of *213 billion barrels*, made by China.

At the same time, EIA statistics for confirmed reserves that could be mined for profit put *Saudia Arabia *with the world's largest reserves of 267 billion barrels, while China was found to have 20.4 billion barrels.

A sharp increase in petroleum demand and the rapid increase in petroleum prices pushed China to strengthen its arguments for territorial sovereignty over the South China Sea.

The waters near the *Senkakus*, which are called the Diaoyu Islands in China, are estimated to have about *3 billion barrels* of petroleum reserves. About 40 years ago, one estimate for those waters had reserves of about 100 billion barrels, and analysts have used that latter figure in explaining why China has begun asserting its claims to the islands in the recent past.

The territorial dispute in the *South China Sea* was temporarily tabled in 2005, and the state-run petroleum companies of China, Vietnam and the Philippines began joint exploration. However, cooperative efforts soon failed following minor tussles.

Since then, the three nations have proceeded with separate resource development projects.

Last June, China National Offshore Oil Corp. announced plans to begin resource development in waters near Vietnam. The Vietnamese Foreign Ministry issued a protest statement, and Do Van Hau, the president and CEO of Petrovietnam, held a news conference in which he called China's move "illegal."

Since the area is part of Vietnam's exclusive economic zone, Vietnam had proceeded with development while partnering with the United States, Russia and India. The nine drilling zones announced by China overlapped with the waters where Vietnam had been developing.

*Petrovietnam *is considering joint development with Japanese companies in about 20 drilling zones in the South China Sea off the coast of Da Nang in central Vietnam. But though there were initial plans to hold an explanatory meeting in July, the process has come to a standstill following the trouble with China.

A source at a Japanese company said, "While the resources are attractive, we do not want to shoulder the risk of disputes. We will take a wait-and-see attitude for the time being."

(This article was written by Manabu Sasaki in Hanoi and Takeshi Fujitani in Vientiane.)


Still tough on Japan, China takes a softer tack with other countries - AJW by The Asahi Shimbun


----------



## SpArK

*India Backs Proposed Code of Conduct for South China Sea​*
India today backed the* proposed Code of Conduct to be established between ASEAN and China to govern the use of the resource-rich South China Sea even as differences cropped up in the 10-nation South East Asian grouping over "internationalising" the issue.*

The support by India, which has also been involved in a tiff with China over use of resources in the disputed mineral-rich maritime region, came a day ahead of the East Asia Summit where the issue is expected to come up. Prime Minister Manmohan Singh will be attending the Summit meet.

"We support efforts to arrive at a Code of Conduct and firm up measures by which South China Sea *will be an area of cooperation*," Foreign Secretary Ranjan Mathai told reporters here.

Asked whether the issue would be discussed at the East Asia Summit (EAS) tomorrow, he said, "leaders can discuss any issue they wish... Obviously when leaders meet they would take up issues which are of immediate concern but these issues should be discussed in the light of need for EAS to have overriding priority of building of bridges of cooperation among various countries".

Citing the Prime Minister, Mathai said he has emphasised that EAS is important as a forum for acceleration economic development and enhancing ecomomic interests of all the countries.

Over a year ago, India was involved in a tiff with China which objected to its exploration of hydrocarbons off the Vietnamese coast.

Mathai's statement came against the backdrop of differences among the ASEAN members, with the Philippines refusing to agree with Cambodia to not to "internationalise" the dispute. 

Philippines has said that it has the "inherent right to defend its national interests when deemed necessary".

Cambodia, this year's ASEAN chair and host of the summit, said yesterday that Southeast Asian leaders had agreed not to "internationalise" the disputes and would confine negotiations to those between the bloc and China.

Japanese Prime Minister Yoshihiko Noda also chipped in warning that the South China Sea was of concern to the international community and could impact peace and stability in the region.

*ASEAN members Vietnam, the Philippines, Malaysia and Brunei, as well as Taiwan, have claims to parts of the sea, which is home to some of the world's most important shipping lanes and believed to be rich in fossil fuels.*

*But China insists it has sovereign rights to virtually all of the sea.*

FILED ON: NOV 19, 2012

India Backs Proposed Code of Conduct for South China Sea | news.outlookindia.com

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Viet

good move India! that will increase the pulse of uncle Wen a bit.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Viet

*China's Stance*


&#9670;China is committed to a peaceful resolution of the South China Sea issue through bilateral dialogues and consultations with related parties. We will not resort to the use of force or the threat of force. China is safeguarding its own legitimate rights, not infringing upon others.

South China Sea Conflict - Global Times


----------



## auspice

Thanks India! Well without the support of the international community, the Philippines does not have the military capability to stop China from aggressively turning the West Philippine Sea into a maritime Tibet. China will succumb to international pressure. This matter is for international tribunal to settle. China is afraid to submit herself to this venue because she has no ammunition to use there.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## auspice

Anyone with half a brain knows it is China driving the conflicts and creating tension.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## WuMaoCleverbot

*&#8216;PH To Defend National Interests&#8217;*
By ELLSON A. QUISMORIO
November 19, 2012, 7:05pm

PHNOM PENH, Cambodia &#8212; President Benigno S. Aquino III on Monday said the Philippines would defend its national interests as it disagreed with the notion of 2012 Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) Chair Cambodia that a &#8220;consensus&#8221; had been reached as to the issue of the South China Sea.

Presidential Communications Operations Office (PCOO) Secretary Herminio Coloma, Jr., in a press briefing with Filipino journalists at the Landscape Hotel here, said Aquino made the statement just as Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen, acting as the chair, was about to adjourn the ASEAN-Japan Summit on Monday morning.

&#8220;President Aquino raised his hand and he was acknowledged and he made a significant intervention,&#8221; Coloma said.

&#8220;There were several views expressed yesterday on ASEAN unity which we did not realize would be translated into an ASEAN consensus. For the record, this was not our understanding. The ASEAN route is not the only route for us. As a sovereign state, it is our right to defend our national interests,&#8221; the Malacañang official quoted Aquino as saying.

According to Coloma, Hun Sen responded by duly acknowledging the statement of Aquino, saying it would be reflected in the record of the meeting.

Coloma said the President&#8217;s intervention came during the Chair&#8217;s closing remarks in the Japan Summit, wherein the latter touched on the subject of the South China Sea.

&#8220;He pointed out that ASEAN has a solid document which is the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties (DoC) which was promulgated in 2002 and that there are guidelines to implement which are the six-point principles,&#8221; Coloma said of PM Hun Sen.

&#8220;And then he mentioned an ASEAN-China framework and it was at this point that I noticed the President raise his hand to make the intervention. So that is the context of what happened.&#8221;

Philippine Foreign Affairs Secretary Albert del Rosario said Hun Sen came up with contentious &#8220;ASEAN consensus&#8221; during Sunday&#8217;s ASEAN retreat session.

&#8220;At the ASEAN retreat yesterday, various views were expressed on ASEAN unity, which were translated by the Chair into an ASEAN consensus. This was not the understanding of the Philippines and at least one other country,&#8221; Del Rosario said in a text message to Coloma that was passed on to the media present at the briefing.

&#8220;When the Chair in the ASEAN-Japan meeting alluded to this, the President indicated that the Philippines was not in accord; That, while the Philippines was for ASEAN unity, it has the inherent right to defend its national interest when deemed necessary.&#8221;

Del Rosario also confirmed that the Philippine position was reflected in a formal letter to the Chair, with copies furnished to all foreign ministers in the regional grouping.

&#8220;The contents of the letter and what the President said were practically the same,&#8221; Coloma said, adding that the letter was dated November 18.

Coloma believes that the mention of an &#8220;ASEAN-China framework&#8221; by Chair and 21st ASEAN Summit host Cambodia implies doing away with the other options that countries with maritime disputes in the region would normally have at their disposal.

&#8220;When you say ASEAN-China, the immediate implication is you are excluding the other options or avenues for resolution that is available to a state like ours,&#8221; the Palace official said.

The Philippines, which is embroiled in a territorial row with China over several resource-rich islands in the West Philippine Sea (South China Sea), has been seeking to resolve the issue using principles of international law, particularly those under the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), in the continued absence of a Code of Conduct (CoC).

Last Saturday, Cambodian Minister of Foreign Affairs Kao Kim Hourn said there is no time frame for the completion of the CoC, which the 10-member ASEAN must draft with its dialogue partner China.

Coloma bared that Vietnam Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung and Japanese Prime Minister Yoshihiko Noda also batted for the early formulation of the CoC, the peaceful resolution of disputes, freedom of navigation and the 1982 UNCLOS during the meetings.

Asked if the Philippines was somehow deviating from the ASEAN Summit&#8217;s overall theme of centrality and unity with what Aquino spoke about, Coloma said that the President was still being consistent.

&#8220;ASEAN centrality is a general principle that has broad applications. That cannot be construed to apply only to a single issue. So maybe there&#8217;s no inconsistently in affirming ASEAN centrality while at the same time asserting that, as a sovereign state, we have the inherent right to defend our national interests in a way that is appropriate or that the leader of the country would deem to be appropriate.&#8221;

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zero_wing

Viet said:


> *China's Stance*
> 
> 
> &#9670;China is committed to a peaceful resolution of the South China Sea issue through bilateral dialogues and consultations with related parties. We will not resort to the use of force or the threat of force. China is safeguarding its own legitimate rights, not infringing upon others.
> 
> South China Sea Conflict - Global Times



Well the problem of that is its trick a plot to overwhelm the countries with disputes with china so its no different from a military solution ! only a stupid country would agree on that term


----------



## WuMaoCleverbot

*Aquino asks China to pull out ships from Scarborough - DFA chief*
By: Veronica Uy, InterAksyon.com
November 21, 2012 4:18 PM

Excerpt:
MANILA, Philippines - President Benigno Aquino III has asked China to pull out its three ships from Scarborough Shoal, Department of Foreign Affairs (DFA) Secretary Albert del Rosario told reporters Wednesday.

Asked if the President explicitly asked this of China, Del Rosario said: &#8220;In accordance with UNCLOS (United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea) and the DOC (Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea), the President called on all parties to respect the EEZ (Exclusive Economic Zone) and the continental shelf of all coastal states irrespective of their size or naval power.

&#8220;That said, the President called on our northern neighbor to respect our EEZ and withdraw their vessels which remain in Bajo de Masinloc.&#8221;

Earlier, the DFA chief said three Chinese government vessels remained in the rock formations that form part of the territory of Masinloc town in Zambales.

Aquino asks China to pull out ships from Scarborough - DFA chief - InterAksyon.com

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## doidoi2

I actually welcome the US presence in the SCS. Peace right now is essential to progress. What china needs now isn't war, but peace to continue to develop. 

Let the Americans pay for the peace. It's actually to China's benefit that they're there. It will keep the extremists and the lunatics in line.


----------



## 帅的一匹

Pak2 said:


> WHY WE OPPOSE TO THE FASCIST COMMUNIST C REGIME.


Even China is not under rule of CCP, we Chinese also will take those Islands. WTF it does with communist regime?



auspice said:


> Thanks India! Well without the support of the international community, the Philippines does not have the military capability to stop China from aggressively turning the West Philippine Sea into a maritime Tibet. China will succumb to international pressure. This matter is for international tribunal to settle. China is afraid to submit herself to this venue because she has no ammunition to use there.


International tribunal? In your dream


----------



## EastSea

wanglaokan said:


> Even China is not under rule of CCP, we Chinese also will take those Islands. WTF it does with communist regime?
> 
> 
> International tribunal? In your dream



China don't have right to take Islands which belong to others. So China is fear to go to International Arbitration, very clear.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## WuMaoCleverbot

*PHL protests China's stamping of its e-passports with West PHL Sea map*
MICHAELA DEL CALLAR November 22, 2012 3:38pm

The Philippines on Thursday protested China&#8217;s inclusion of a map of the entire West Philippine Sea (also called South China Sea) in its new electronic passports, calling it &#8220;unacceptable&#8221; and an infringement on the country's sovereignty. 

In its boldest assertion to date, Beijing released a new batch of e-passports bearing the map of the disputed area, where the Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan have overlapping claims on several territories but is being owned by China in its entirety.

&#8220;The Philippines strongly protests the inclusion of the nine-dash lines in the e-passport as such image covers an area that is clearly part of the Philippines&#8217; territory and maritime domain,&#8221; said Manila&#8217;s note verbale or diplomatic note to China which was read by Foreign Affairs Secretary Albert del Rosario to the media.

Claimants have been locked in decades of disputes over mostly barren but potentially resource-rich waters in the West Philippine Sea.

China, Vietnam and the Philippines have particularly figured in separate fresh altercations last year and this year that have sparked Asian and international concerns over a possible major armed clash that could threaten access to and the passage of commercial and cargo ships in the busy waters.

&#8220;The Philippines does not accept the validity of the nine-dash lines that amount to an excessive declaration of maritime space in violation of international law,&#8221; Del Rosario continued, referring to China&#8217;s U-shaped nine-dotted line claim that covers most of the sea.

Philippine officials transmitted its protest to the Chinese Embassy in Manila on Wednesday.

&#8220;We are expecting a reply soon,&#8221; said Foreign Affairs spokesman Raul Hernandez when asked if Manila would ask Beijing to recall the passports.

Vietnam, another claimant, has already complained about the new passports.

The Chinese Embassy in Manila has not yet returned GMA News Online's request for a reaction as of this posting.

In its protest, Manila accused China of violating a non-aggression pact that Beijing signed with the Association of South East Asian Nations which calls on all claimants &#8220;to refrain from actions that complicate and escalate the dispute.&#8221;

&#8220;The Philippines demands that China respect the territory and maritime domain of the Philippines,&#8221; the protest letter said.

It also reiterated that the West Philippine Sea including &#8220;the waters, islands, rocks and other maritime features in its continental shelf within the 200-nautical mile from the baselines form an integral part of the Philippine territory and maritime jurisdiction.&#8221;

Manila has long considered elevating its disputes with China to a mediation body in the United Nations. 

The Philippines can not just ignore China's action, Hernandez said, noting that allowing Beijing to continue issuing the said passport with a map that violates the country's sovereignty would mean submission to Beijing&#8217;s claim.

&#8220;The passport will be used by Chinese nationals and if they carry that kind of map that violates our sovereignty and if we allow that then it would mean acquiescence to their claim of the whole of South China Sea,&#8221; Hernandez said. 

"Our Constitution says we have to protect our sovereignty and we owe it to our nation to do so," he said. &#8212; RSJ/KG, GMA News

PHL protests China&#39;s stamping of its e-passports with West PHL Sea map | News | GMA News Online | The Go-To Site for Filipinos Everywhere

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Viet

doidoi2 said:


> *I actually welcome the US presence in the SCS*. Peace right now is essential to progress. What china needs now isn't war, but peace to continue to develop.
> 
> Let the Americans pay for the peace. It's actually to China's benefit that they're there. It will keep the extremists and the lunatics in line.




You are a rare exception who sees different from the rest of Chinese members here.
Good to see that.


----------



## Pak2

They start producing these phony documents, Classic Chinese strategy.lol


----------



## Pak2

So far i can see it,,every countries surrounding Asean region,they are happy with the way US treat them.


----------



## Maxtini

Multilateral dispute must be discussed multilaterally~ China's insistence of bilateral talk is ridiculously illogical

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## yusheng

China publishes 1st official map of Sansha city









_A working staff presents the map of Sansha city at Xidan Books Building in Beijing, capital of China, Nov. 24, 2012. The first official map of the newly-established Sansha city in south China's Hainan Province was published on Saturday. (Xinhua/Liu Changlong)_






_Photo taken on Nov. 24, 2012 shows the map of Sansha city which is for sale at Xidan Books Building in Beijing, capital of China. The first official map of the newly-established Sansha city in south China's Hainan Province was published on Saturday. (Xinhua/Liu Changlong) _






_A citizen looks through the map of Sansha city at Xidan Books Building in Beijing, capital of China, Nov. 24, 2012. The first official map of the newly-established Sansha city in south China's Hainan Province was published on Saturday. (Xinhua/Liu Changlong) _






_A man presents the map of Sansha city at Xidan Books Building in Beijing, capital of China, Nov. 24, 2012. The first official map of the newly-established Sansha city in south China's Hainan Province was published on Saturday. (Xinhua/Liu Changlong) _

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Pak2

The countries which involve with China just print there own map the problem is done. By doing this acts mean they invide the other countries to treat their bride map like a piece of toilet paper.


----------



## NiceGuy

Pak2 said:


> The countries which involve with China just print there own map the problem is done. By doing this acts mean they invide the other countries to treat their bride map like a piece of toilet paper.


Vi&#7879;t Nam-Phil-Malay-Brunei also have overlapping claims in SCS(east sea), if we do the same like China, then it means ASEAN nations will fight against one another ,too.

Just let's those Chinese happy for few more time.....in 1979 evil China govt. backstabded VN, many Chinese happy and then in 1989 those 'happy' Chinese got massacred in Tienanmen, China govt. had to return our Laosan mountain that they occupied during VN-China war and begged for friendship with Vn after that .

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zheng He

China is building a massive marine coastguard with multiple surveillance vessels and developing a marine engineering equipment industry to drill for oil & gas. Already the oil drilling rig 981 is in operation. 
With Hu Jintao saying China should be a maritime power, you can bet he PLAN will get new naval platforms in the near future. I expect more carriers, nuclear submarines, LHDs and other power projecting platforms to be under development as we speak.

China already built Sansha City. I expect more things like this. Others can bark all they want, but without advanced drilling equipment to look for oil & gas, without marine surveillance vessels and without big naval power.....Vietnam and Philippines are absolutely powerless to stop China.

With the 2nd largest economy and 2nd largest military budget, China can pour absolutely ENORMOUS resources of all types to secure the South China Sea. Competing with China in China's own back yard with the resources China currently has and will have In the future is one of the most pointless exercises there is.

As time goes by, China's hold on the South China Sea will only increase as China gains more capabilities. Making the issue international will not stop China, it will just make China more determined and push hardliners into power positions.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

Zheng He said:


> China is building a massive marine coastguard with multiple surveillance vessels and developing a marine engineering equipment industry to drill for oil & gas. Already the oil drilling rig 981 is in operation.
> With Hu Jintao saying China should be a maritime power, you can bet he PLAN will get new naval platforms in the near future. I expect more carriers, nuclear submarines, LHDs and other power projecting platforms to be under development as we speak.
> 
> China already built Sansha City. I expect more things like this. Others can bark all they want, but without advanced drilling equipment to look for oil & gas, without marine surveillance vessels and without big naval power.....Vietnam and Philippines are absolutely powerless to stop China.
> 
> With the 2nd largest economy and 2nd largest military budget, China can pour absolutely ENORMOUS resources of all types to secure the South China Sea. Competing with China in China's own back yard with the resources China currently has and will have In the future is one of the most pointless exercises there is.
> 
> As time goes by, China's hold on the South China Sea will only increase as China gains more capabilities. Making the issue international will not stop China, it will just make China more determined and push hardliners into power positions.



Chinese guardship ran away from our sea.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Viet

*More maps back claim over island sovereignty* 
Updated November, 26 2012 10:28:00 | Vietnam News






_One of 90 maps that have been donated to central Da Nang City, indicating the Hoang Sa and Truong Sa belong to Viet Nam. The map, printed by Prevost Bellin in Germany in 1747, shows the southern extent of China as being Hainan Island. &#8212; Photo Courtesy of Tran Thang

_
DA NANG (VNS)&#8212; The central *city of Da Nang* has received a collection of 90 maps published between 1826 and 1980, 10 of which indicate the Hoang Sa (Paracel) and Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelagoes belong to Viet Nam, the chairman of the city's Hoang Sa District People's Committee, Dang Cong Ngu, told Viet Nam News yesterday.

"We have invited historians, archaeologists, lawyers and researchers to evaluate the collection before making it public," Ngu said. "The collection has been preserved with strict precautions and is significant evidence that the two archipelagoes belong to Viet Nam."

The donor, Institute for Vietnamese Culture and Education (IVCE) director Tran Thang, said by email yesterday that he had travelled to the US, England and Poland between July and October to collect the old maps, using his own funds and some from his friends.

"It cost US$12,000 to buy the collection," he told Viet Nam News via email. "I'm still searching for more maps to donate a more perfect collection to Da Nang in the future."

*He spent $8,000 to buy two books of Postal Atlas Maps of China which were published by the Directorate General of Posts of the Ministry of Transportation of the Republic of China in 1919 (consisting of 49 maps) and in 1933 (29 maps), as well as one Atlas of the Chinese Empire, published by the China Inland Mission in 1909 (23 maps). None of the three books list Hoang Sa and Truong Sa in the maps or index pages. Hoang Sa District plans to display the collection during Sea and Islands Week in Khanh Hoa Province next April. &#8212; VNS*

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

Zheng He said:


> China is building a massive marine coastguard with multiple surveillance vessels and developing a marine engineering equipment industry to drill for oil & gas. Already the oil drilling rig 981 is in operation.
> With Hu Jintao saying China should be a maritime power, you can bet he PLAN will get new naval platforms in the near future. I expect more carriers, nuclear submarines, LHDs and other power projecting platforms to be under development as we speak.
> 
> China already built Sansha City. I expect more things like this. Others can bark all they want, but without advanced drilling equipment to look for oil & gas, without marine surveillance vessels and without big naval power.....*Vietnam *and Philippines are absolutely powerless to stop China.
> 
> With the 2nd largest economy and 2nd largest military budget, China can pour absolutely ENORMOUS resources of all types to secure the South China Sea. Competing with China in China's own back yard with the resources China currently has and will have In the future is one of the most pointless exercises there is.
> 
> As time goes by, China's hold on the South China Sea will only increase as China gains more capabilities. Making the issue international will not stop China, it will just make China more determined and push hardliners into power positions.




Enjoy you ban, you fool!

If you and some Chinese warmongers haven´t noticed, we have strengthened our defence capability along the entire coast, all potential enemy warships risk deadly encounter such as with our SS-N-26 Yakhont supersonic cruise missles!





_The Yakhont cruise missile is a highly accurate Russian weapon with a 300-kilometer range, capable of carrying a warhead of up to 200 kilograms._

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## S10

Viet said:


> Enjoy you ban, you fool!
> 
> If you and some Chinese warmongers haven´t noticed, we have strengthened our defence capability along the entire coast, all potential enemy warships risk deadly encounter such as with our SS-N-26 Yakhont supersonic cruise missles!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _The Yakhont cruise missile is a highly accurate Russian weapon with a 300-kilometer range, capable of carrying a warhead of up to 200 kilograms._


Would an adult man be afraid of a child wielding a butter knife? Hoping one missile will keep you safe is a sure sign of weakness. In the age of network-centric warfare, Vietnam stands no chance against China militarily.


----------



## Viet

S10 said:


> Would an adult man be afraid of a child wielding a butter knife? Hoping one missile will keep you safe is a sure sign of weakness. In the age of network-centric warfare, *Vietnam stands no chance against China militarily*.



Yakhont can sink your cheap carrier in one shot. 

In theory, we have no chance against China. But do you have any idea, why we kicked your a... constantly? Learn the history!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

S10 said:


> Would an adult man be afraid of a child wielding a butter knife? Hoping one missile will keep you safe is a sure sign of weakness. In the age of network-centric warfare, Vietnam stands no chance against China militarily.



A boy big, fat and bullying that does not mean he is an adult man.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## S10

Viet said:


> Yakhont can sink your cheap carrier in one shot.
> 
> In theory, we have no chance against China. But do you have any idea, why we kicked your a... constantly? Learn the history!


How are you going to aquire target when your radars are jammed and your communication are shut down? How do you intend to provide mid-way guidance to your toy missile? How do you intend to get through layers of air defence to reach the carrier? Let's just ignore all that like you Viets usually do, claiming one Yakhont can sink a carrier is beyond stupid, even for your standards. 

History? Do you mean?

1. You being colonized by us for over a 1000 years?
2. All that captured border area we still hold back from 1979?
3. The islands we captured in 1988?

You no more kicked our *** than you did to the Americans. Just because we decided it's not worth the trouble of holding your country down, does not mean you "kicked ***". It's like someone is getting tired of beating you up, and then you claim victory for not dying.



Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> A boy big, fat and bullying that does not mean he is an adult man.


Do test us and see what happens. Everytime we send our aircraft down to South China Sea you guys run faster than rats.


----------



## Rechoice

S10 said:


> How are you going to aquire target when your radars are jammed and your communication are shut down? How do you intend to provide mid-way guidance to your toy missile? How do you intend to get through layers of air defence to reach the carrier? Let's just ignore all that like you Viets usually do, claiming one Yakhont can sink a carrier is beyond stupid, even for your standards.
> 
> History? Do you mean?
> 
> 1. You being colonized by us for over a 1000 years?
> 2. All that captured border area we still hold back from 1979?
> 3. The islands we captured in 1988?
> 
> You no more kicked our *** than you did to the Americans. Just because we decided it's not worth the trouble of holding your country down, does not mean you "kicked ***". It's like someone is getting tired of beating you up, and then you claim victory for not dying.
> 
> 
> Do test us and see what happens. Everytime we send our aircraft down to South China Sea you guys run faster than rats.



Look at yourself first who controlled you in the past.
Hey, here chinese ship ran out very fast like rats.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## applesauce

sigh..

its has a 300 km range and is land based, china doesnt even need its navy to invade vietnam as there is a fairly long land boarder, if we're fighting over the islands yakhont is going to be useless cause the islands are much more than 300 kms away from vietnam mainland.


----------



## S10

Rechoice said:


> Look at yourself first who controlled you in the past.
> Hey, here chinese ship ran out very fast like rats.


We've been your masters, while I can't say the same for the other way around. The video only proves Viets only engage when you see a civilian agency, while you flee faster than rats everytime we send out military patrol.


----------



## Rechoice

applesauce said:


> sigh..
> 
> its has a 300 km range and is land based, china doesnt even need its navy to invade vietnam as there is a fairly long land boarder, if we're fighting over the islands yakhont is going to be useless cause the islands are much more than 300 kms away from vietnam mainland.



Yakhont can destroy the ship in distance far way more than 300 km, that why Yakhont was choiced for our Navy.


----------



## S10

applesauce said:


> sigh..
> 
> its has a 300 km range and is land based, china doesnt even need its navy to invade vietnam as there is a fairly long land boarder, if we're fighting over the islands yakhont is going to be useless cause the islands are much more than 300 kms away from vietnam mainland.


These Viets have no concept of mid-course guidance, thus they keep bragging about 300km range despite they do not have the capability to attack target at that distance. They do not understand the target needs to be illuminated by a radar and positional data fed back to the missile during its flight.


----------



## Rechoice

S10 said:


> We've been your masters, while I can't say the same for the other way around. The video only proves Viets only engage when you see a civilian agency, while you flee faster than rats everytime we send out military patrol.



Yes, You : Manchu controlled China in the past but no Viet, 

&#272;&#7889;ng &#272;a is the place where, over 200 years ago, Emperor Quang Trung (reigning 1788-1792) defeated the 290,000-strong Qing invading army. In the evening of the 4th and on the 5th days of the 1st lunar month &#8211; that is 29-30 January 1789 &#8211; the enemy redoubt in Kh&#432;&#417;ng Th&#432;&#7907;ng was overwhelmed by Vietnamese forces and its Commanding Officer, General S&#7847;m Nghi &#272;&#7889;ngi (Manchu Commandor), committed suicide. Thereafter, the Commander-in-Chief of the Expeditionary Corps, General Tôn S&#297; Ngh&#7883;, hurried away from the Vietnamese capital and ran back to China in panic.

When chinese is using surveillanceships we send out in the same categorical Police guard-ship to stop chinese provocatuers.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## S10

Rechoice said:


> Yes, You : Manchu controlled China in the past but no Viet,
> 
> &#272;&#7889;ng &#272;a is the place where, over 200 years ago, Emperor Quang Trung (reigning 1788-1792) defeated the 290,000-strong Qing invading army. In the evening of the 4th and on the 5th days of the 1st lunar month &#8211; that is 29-30 January 1789 &#8211; the enemy redoubt in Kh&#432;&#417;ng Th&#432;&#7907;ng was overwhelmed by Vietnamese forces and its Commanding Officer, General S&#7847;m Nghi &#272;&#7889;ngi (Manchu Commandor), committed suicide. Thereafter, the Commander-in-Chief of the Expeditionary Corps, General Tôn S&#297; Ngh&#7883;, hurried away from the Vietnamese capital and ran back to China in panic.
> 
> When chinese is using surveillanceships we send out in the same categorical Police guard-ship to stop chinese provocatuers.


We've been your masters on and off since Qin dynasty more than 2000 years ago. Can you say the same the other way around? Of course you can't, because your history revolves around you being colonized by foreign powers.

Where was your airforce when we patrolled the area? Staying home like little scared monkeys.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

S10 said:


> We've been your masters on and off since Qin dynasty more than 2000 years ago. Can you say the same the other way around? Of course you can't, because your history revolves around you being colonized by foreign powers.
> 
> Where was your airforce when we patrolled the area? Staying home like little scared monkeys.



Base on your idiot logic: Japanse and Braitain were you masters recently.

Our airforce Vietnam sends fighter jets to patrol Spratly. A pair of Su-27 fighter jets has embarked on regular patrols of the Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelago in the East Sea, a state military newspaper reported recently. Vietnam began the missions June 15, sending the Russian-made Sukhoi fighters from Phu Cat airport in central Binh Dinh Province, according to Dat Viet newspaper.
It was air division 372&#8217;s first regular flight to the area. One of two other main air divisions, 370, started flight patrols to Truong Sa in 1988.
Combat pilots Le Hong Son and Nguyen Hong Tuan, both 31, flew the two jets for the 1,300 kilometers, roundtrip, between Phu Cat and Truong Sa.
&#8220;I feel moved,&#8221; Son said as he held a bouquet of flowers presented to him upon returning to the mainland.
&#8220;I could see my comrades on the island waving flags and hands to greet me. I could see the lighthouse on it clearly.&#8221;

Vietnam sends fighter jets to patrol Spratly

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## applesauce

octopus said:


> ...



no sir unlike you i list things that actually happened, not stuff like hurr durr india super power while million starve to death



Syama Ayas said:


> Source for the above incident?



heres a piece that mentions it

India, China Navies Face-Off


----------



## S10

Rechoice said:


> Base on your idiot logic: Japanse and Braitain were you masters recently.
> 
> Our airforce Vietnam sends fighter jets to patrol Spratly. A pair of Su-27 fighter jets has embarked on regular patrols of the Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelago in the East Sea, a state military newspaper reported recently. Vietnam began the missions June 15, sending the Russian-made Sukhoi fighters from Phu Cat airport in central Binh Dinh Province, according to Dat Viet newspaper.
> It was air division 372&#8217;s first regular flight to the area. One of two other main air divisions, 370, started flight patrols to Truong Sa in 1988.
> Combat pilots Le Hong Son and Nguyen Hong Tuan, both 31, flew the two jets for the 1,300 kilometers, roundtrip, between Phu Cat and Truong Sa.
> &#8220;I feel moved,&#8221; Son said as he held a bouquet of flowers presented to him upon returning to the mainland.
> &#8220;I could see my comrades on the island waving flags and hands to greet me. I could see the lighthouse on it clearly.&#8221;
> 
> Vietnam sends fighter jets to patrol Spratly


Japanese never managed to control more than 1/3 of China. Britain never managed to control more than 1/100 of China. Sure they invaded, but they couldn't colonize the country. You on the other hand, were thoroughly colonized kept as obediant slaves. You even adopted a Western alphbet writing system like good little pets.

Maybe you should talk to your Su-30 pilots about their experience of getting their planes locked on more than a dozen times. They haven't popped their head back out whenever we showed up since.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

S10 said:


> Japanese never managed to control more than 1/3 of China. Britain never managed to control more than 1/100 of China. Sure they invaded, but they couldn't colonize the country. You on the other hand, were thoroughly colonized kept as obediant slaves. You even adopted a Western alphbet writing system like good little pets.
> 
> Maybe you should talk to your Su-30 pilots about their experience of getting their planes locked on more than a dozen times. They haven't popped their head back out whenever we showed up since.



very sad, my answer was deleted. Look at yourself first.
Hanji and Latin alphabet is innocent symbol for wrtting, it's world wide used. Don't forget that we have been wipped out all invaders who invaded in to Vietnam.


----------



## auspice

When you are claiming a piece of territory on the other side of the sea, so far from your own, it can properly be called greed and aggression. You Chinese behave like that because you have been humiliated by Europeans at the time when you thought you have the most advanced civilization.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## kurup

applesauce said:


> no sir unlike you i list things that actually happened, not stuff like hurr durr india super power while million starve to death
> 
> 
> 
> heres a piece that mentions it
> 
> India, China Navies Face-Off




Unlike you sir we donot have to resort to poor and toilets to prove our points.

Assault ship INS Airavat was not confronted by China: Indian Navy - Economic Times


----------



## Kyusuibu Honbu

applesauce said:


> no sir unlike you i list things that actually happened, not stuff like hurr durr india super power *while million starve to death*



What is it with Chinese members and their ritual to mention figures of starvation deaths in India with no recent verified source?




> heres a piece that mentions it
> 
> India, China Navies Face-Off



The article mentions everything what you said except the Chinese accent part.


----------



## notte

auspice said:


> When you are claiming a piece of territory on the other side of the sea, so far from your own, it can properly be called greed and aggression. You Chinese behave like that because you have been humiliated by Europeans at the time when you thought you have the most advanced civilization.


Yeah yeah we are greed and aggression, so what? We behave what we like, do you like it?

We are still no match for the EU or US, we know that but it is the problem of the future. Now we are only bullying countries like you, let see what EU will do? And let see what you can do? Oh we are partly colonized in the past if you like, but that is the past, now we are strong and aggressive, and nothing else matter. Do you have any excuse?

Oh the China is coming, shout louder then see who will help you? Maybe the Viets? OK both of you should shout louder, maybe the Indians or the Americans may hear your helpless voices, help me, help me. Maybe they will give you some money or hardware. Oh we really want the no1 position of the USA and we really want you to drag more money from the US and keep them in spending on nonsense countries like you. The US want to race with China? We accept it, let see who will bankrupt first.


----------



## S10

auspice said:


> When you are claiming a piece of territory on the other side of the sea, so far from your own, it can properly be called greed and aggression. You Chinese behave like that because you have been humiliated by Europeans at the time when you thought you have the most advanced civilization.


Since you Flips and Viets whine so much, I'm going to put it in simple terms for you. You can think of us as the devil and we couldn't care less. Borders have always been fluidic, changing depending on the power of the state. That's the hard truth of history. Everybody can bring all sorts of historical evidence and then argue for eternity without result. In the end only economic and military power matter. The rise of every great power in history has been accompanied by expansion of their territory, and China would be no different than Romans, Mongols, Spanish, British and American that came before us.

If that's too complicated for you, then simply this: Law of the Jungle.


----------



## Rechoice

S10 said:


> Since you Flips and Viets whine so much, I'm going to put it in simple terms for you. You can think of us as the devil and we couldn't care less. Borders have always been fluidic, changing depending on the power of the state. That's the hard truth of history. Everybody can bring all sorts of historical evidence and then argue for eternity without result. In the end only economic and military power matter. The rise of every great power in history has been accompanied by expansion of their territory, and China would be no different than Romans, Mongols, Spanish, British and American that came before us.
> 
> If that's too complicated for you, then simply this: Law of the Jungle.



Law of Jungle apply for animals not for humankind.



S10 said:


> Since you Flips and Viets whine so much, I'm going to put it in simple terms for you. You can think of us as the devil and we couldn't care less. Borders have always been fluidic, changing depending on the power of the state. That's the hard truth of history. Everybody can bring all sorts of historical evidence and then argue for eternity without result. In the end only economic and military power matter. The rise of every great power in history has been accompanied by expansion of their territory, and China would be no different than Romans, Mongols, Spanish, British and American that came before us.
> 
> If that's too complicated for you, then simply this: Law of the Jungle.



Law of Jungle apply for animals not for humankind.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## S10

Rechoice said:


> Law of Jungle apply for animals not for humankind.
> 
> 
> 
> Law of Jungle apply for animals not for humankind.


Look in a history book Viet. Which great power in history did not expand their border? Or do you Viets prefer to live in a fantasy world?

- Persia
- Greece
- Carthage
- Rome
- Han
- Tang
- Umayyad
- Mongol
- Ottoman
- Spain
- Portugal
- Netherland
- British
- American

All of these went on a path of conquest. It's the natural cycle of rising powers.


----------



## Rechoice

S10 said:


> Look in a history book Viet. Which great power in history did not expand their border? Or do you Viets prefer to live in a fantasy world?
> 
> - Persia
> - Greece
> - Carthage
> - Rome
> - Han
> - Tang
> - Umayyad
> - Mongol
> - Ottoman
> - Spain
> - Portugal
> - Netherland
> - British
> - American
> 
> All of these went on a path of conquest. It's the natural cycle of rising powers.



You forget that all of them were going to collapse. I think China and US will share same fate.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## S10

Rechoice said:


> You forget that all of them were going to collapse. I think China and US will share same fate.


All empires rise and fall, and we are no different. We fell before and now we're on our way to the top again. Whether we rise or fall, you Viets are irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. The only reason why we even talk about you is because you're being pests in our steps.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Maxtini

S10 said:


> Look in a history book Viet. Which great power in history did not expand their border? Or do you Viets prefer to live in a fantasy world?
> 
> - Persia
> - Greece
> - Carthage
> - Rome
> - Han
> - Tang
> - Umayyad
> - Mongol
> - Ottoman
> - Spain
> - Portugal
> - Netherland
> - British
> - American
> 
> All of these went on a path of conquest. It's the natural cycle of rising powers.



It's good that you realize China is as imperialistic as those great power used to have. So why do the chinese government and most of those mainland chinese continue hypocritically condemning Japanese trying to playdown what they've done in WW2 to most east asia, While at the same time the chinese themselves playdown the history of China conquering Vietnam, East Turkestan, and Tibet at its height of power?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## S10

Maxtini said:


> It's good that you realize China is as imperialistic as those great power used to have. So why do the chinese government and most of those mainland chinese continue hypocritically condemning Japanese trying to playdown what they've done in WW2 to most east asia, While at the same time the chinese themselves playdown the history of China conquering Vietnam, East Turkestan, and Tibet at its height of power?


Playdown history of conquering Vietnam? We're quite proud of it. As far as your "East Turkestan" goes, Han people settled in that area long before the Turkic tribes arrived. As far as Tibet, we inherited the borders of Republic of China, our previous government and we drove out the leeching monks preying on the Tibetans.

I don't hold anything against Japan for the atrocities, and I certainly don't care if they deny it. It makes it that much easier when we repaid them in blood.


----------



## Viet

S10 said:


> Look in a history book Viet. Which great power in history did not expand their border? Or do you Viets prefer to live in a fantasy world?
> 
> - Persia
> - Greece
> - Carthage
> - Rome
> - Han
> - Tang
> - Umayyad
> - Mongol
> - Ottoman
> - Spain
> - Portugal
> - Netherland
> - British
> - American
> 
> All of these went on a path of conquest. It's the natural cycle of rising powers.



The problem for China is Vietnam is not a easy meal as history shows.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## S10

Viet said:


> The problem for China is Vietnam is not a easy meal as history shows.


No, it's not easy to hold on to, but it can be conquered. Besides, we don't want you anyway. The only reason you appear on our radar is because you sit on a few islands that we claim.


----------



## Rechoice

S10 said:


> All empires rise and fall, and we are no different. We fell before and now we're on our way to the top again. Whether we rise or fall, you Viets are irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. The only reason why we even talk about you is because you're being pests in our steps.



China is going to split in to many countries, is good for peace of world.



S10 said:


> Playdown history of conquering Vietnam? We're quite proud of it. As far as your "East Turkestan" goes, Han people settled in that area long before the Turkic tribes arrived. As far as Tibet, we inherited the borders of Republic of China, our previous government and we drove out the leeching monks preying on the Tibetans.
> 
> I don't hold anything against Japan for the atrocities, and I certainly don't care if they deny it. It makes it that much easier when we repaid them in blood.



When Japan conquered China, Manchuria was independence state, good for you Manchu boy, and you can claim that you are Manchuria citizen, based on your father-blood line.


----------



## S10

Rechoice said:


> China is going to split in to many countries, is good for peace of world.


Don't drink Agent Orange too much. However, Vietnam being bombed back a few decades is a very real possibility.



> When Japan conquered China, Manchuria was independence state, good for you Manchu boy, and you can claim that you are Manchuria citizen, based on your father-blood line.


Japan never managed to conquer China. At best they only held about 1/3 of Chinese territory before their defeat in WWII. By blood, I am only 1/4 Manchurian, thus I am an ethnic Han. I understand you have a poor education system in Vietnam and you're royally stupid because of it. I don't blame you.


----------



## Maxtini

S10 said:


> Playdown history of conquering Vietnam? *We're quite proud of it*. As far as your "East Turkestan" goes, Han people settled in that area long before the Turkic tribes arrived. As far as Tibet, we inherited the borders of Republic of China, our previous government and we drove out the leeching monks preying on the Tibetans.
> 
> I don't hold anything against Japan for the atrocities, and I certainly don't care if they deny it. It makes it that much easier when we repaid them in blood.



And that's why China will only recieve hostility and suspicion from neighbouring countries, especially with ASEAN, Japan, and South Korea. All talk of "peaceful rising", yet glorifying and proud of the imperialistic past of China of conquering Vietnam.

As far as the tendencies goes, most Chinese don't regret anything about their past of conquering other regions/countries and always justifying them by saying it is "part of China since ancient time". I'm shocked by how many of my Chinese friends boasting proudly of the failed attempt of the Yuan Dynasty (Mongolian actually) to conquer Japan. Even claiming that should there were no typhoon back then, Japan would be part of China now.

This chauvinistic attitude by Chinese would naturally in turn invites hostilities, yet the propaganda by the Chinese government always protray those foreign countries (especially Japan and America) as the "evil" countries trying to make enemies to China. Your reply of "proud of conquering vietnam" actually confirm this tendencies.

FYI, I'm Chinese literate and constanly pass by to watch news and television programs aired on CCTV and Phoenix TV, and I could guaranteed 100% that they're all full of chauvinistic messages there constantly feeding the Chinese public of how noble/great the Chinese are since ancient time and how evil/treacherous the foreign countries are (especially Japan).

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Viet

People´s daily and Global times are two examples how China sees the world. 

China is as victim, others are the bad guys. At present they love to thrash and throw rubbish on Japan, Vietnam, Philippines and America, because of disputes in the East and South China Sea.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

S10 said:


> These Viets have no concept of* mid-course guidance*, thus they keep bragging about 300km range despite they do not have the capability to attack target at that distance. They do not understand the target needs to be illuminated by a radar and positional data fed back to the missile during its flight.



(source: Internet)
The *Yakhont*-type antiship missile is designed to combat naval surface-ship groupings and single ships under heavy fire and electronic counteraction. 

After launch, Yakhont's SS-N-26 early descent to a low altitude, combined with its supersonic speed and seaskimming flight mode in the homing phase, make it possible to avoid detection and tracking of the missile by even the target's most sophisticated air defense systems. 

The missile is noted for: 
- over-the-horizon range; 
- true "fire-and-forget" performance; 
- flexible flight path ("low", "high - low"); 
- supersonic speed at all flight phases; 
- multi-platform capability permitting their use by surface ships of all major classes, submarines and ground-based launchers.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cirr

Deal with these&#65306;

China Fishery 312
















CMS 9020


----------



## cirr

Four CMS ships that joined the fleet in the last month or so:

CMS 110:






CMS 137(departed for Diaoyu Islands 28.11.2012):






CMS 168:






CMS 169:


----------



## cirr

5872-ton China Fishery 206:

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## gpit

Rechoice said:


> China is going to split in to many countries, is good for peace of world.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



China broke up several times in the history. What's big deal?

Much to your horror, *you may not have the history knowledge that every time China broke up, it reunified with bigger territory.*

And what is relevant to your Viets is that many times China reunified, Vietnam became a province of China.

The oldest being when Qin dynasty broke up and Han unified China, Vietnam became China's province (under first Chinese domination in 111 BC, as your history called it).

Whereas the 4th Chinese domination of Vietnam (again as you call it), this is when Ming Dynasty chased out Yuan after China broke up and Vietnam thought it was the time to make trouble, and it ended up being China&#8217;s province.

Often, when Vietnam became part of China, its civilization got an unprecedented boost. Of course, it is not to deny that there were many instances that Viets were suppressed by their rulers, just as there were more instances that ordinary Chinese were suppressed by their rulers.


----------



## gpit

*China publishes 1st official map of Sansha city*

BEIJING, Nov. 25 (Xinhuanet) -- The first official map of the newly-established city of Sansha is now available in major bookstores across the country. It is the first map that reflects the geological information of China&#8217;s Sansha City and South China Sea islands in a comprehensive, accurate and specific manner.

The map has been verified by a unit in charge of surveying, mapping and navigation under *the General Staff Headquarters of the People&#8217;s Liberation Army* and was approved by the General Administration of Press and Publication.

The map shows the geological locations, oceanic terrain, natural resources, marine and land transportation, airports and harbors as well as administrative boundaries of the city and the islands. Images of Yongxing Island, where the Sansha city government is seated, is emphasized in the map.

China publishes 1st official map of Sansha city - Xinhua | English.news.cn


----------



## gpit

*Patrols in Hainan get more power to stop illegal sea entry*

Globaltimes.cn | 2012-11-28 14:40:00 
By Globaltimes.cn Share on twitterShare on facebookShare on sinaweiboShare on google_plusoneMore Sharing Services0 E-mail Print 

Latest News 

Hainan gives police power to stop illegal sea entry

Border patrol police in China's southernmost province of Hainan on Tuesday were given the power to embark on and check ships which illegally enter its waters.

Detailed Regulations 

A newly revised maritime regulation was enacted by the Standing Committee of Hainan Provincial People's Congress on November 27.

&#9733;The regulation defines six practices of illegal activities of foreign ships or crews. These include illegal landing on the islands under the jurisdiction of Hainan, damaging coastal defense facilities or facilities for production and living, and carrying out publicity campaigns that endanger China's national security.

&#9733;The police can land on, check, seize and expel foreign ships illegally entering the island province's sea areas.

&#9733;Hainan border police are entitled to use these measures to stop the illegally entering ships or to force them into changing or reversing course

&#9733;According to the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea, foreign ships are only allowed to make inoffensive passage through China's territorial waters, meaning they can neither stop nor drop anchor.

&#9733;In the past, when foreign ships broke the UN convention, the best thing our patrol force could do was chase them out of China's waters. This new regulation will change that situation and grant the patrol force the legal means to actually do its job.

Source: Xinhua-Global Times

Patrols in Hainan get more power to stop illegal sea entry - Globaltimes.cn

-------------

*Hainan gives police power to stop illegal sea entry*
China.org.cn | 2012-11-28 14:46:21 
By Agencies

Border patrol police in China's southernmost province of Hainan on Tuesday were given the power to embark on and check ships which illegally enter its waters.

*The police can land on, check, seize and expel foreign ships illegally entering the island province's sea areas*, according to a newly revised maritime regulation enacted by the Standing Committee of Hainan Provincial People's Congress.

"Hainan border police are entitled to use these measures to stop the illegally entering ships or to force them into changing or reversing course," it said.

The regulation defines six practices of illegal activities of foreign ships or crews. These include illegal landing on the islands under the jurisdiction of Hainan, damaging the coastal defense facilities or facilities for production and living, and carrying out publicity campaigns that endanger China's national security. 

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/746991.shtml


----------



## Pak2

The Chinese are selective in their bullying activities. They pick on smaller countries which they know don't have firepower as strong as theirs. Look what happened last July in the part of Sea of Japan which lies within Russia's exclusive economic zone. Chinese fishing ships were fired upon and detained by Russian Coast Guard. What did China do? Beg Russia for the release of their fishermen and detained vessels.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Rechoice

gpit said:


> China broke up several times in the history. What's big deal?
> 
> Much to your horror, *you may not have the history knowledge that every time China broke up, it reunified with bigger territory.*
> 
> And what is relevant to your Viets is that many times China reunified, Vietnam became a province of China.
> 
> The oldest being when Qin dynasty broke up and Han unified China, Vietnam became China's province (under first Chinese domination in 111 BC, as your history called it).
> 
> Whereas the 4th Chinese domination of Vietnam (again as you call it), this is when Ming Dynasty chased out Yuan after China broke up and Vietnam thought it was the time to make trouble, and it ended up being China&#8217;s province.
> 
> Often, when Vietnam became part of China, its civilization got an unprecedented boost. Of course, it is not to deny that there were many instances that Viets were suppressed by their rulers, just as there were more instances that ordinary Chinese were suppressed by their rulers.



At the end, chinese invaders ran away from Vietnam, it's a conclusion of history. In fact chinese were ruled by invaders, no thing was more.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Maxtini

Pak2 said:


> The Chinese are selective in their bullying activities. They pick on smaller countries which they know don't have firepower as strong as theirs. Look what happened last July in the part of Sea of Japan which lies within Russia's exclusive economic zone. Chinese fishing ships were fired upon and detained by Russian Coast Guard. What did China do? Beg Russia for the release of their fishermen and detained vessels.



South Korea has also repeatedly shoot Chinese fishermen who entered Korean EEZ, and the Chinese has been queit all along. 

"_It may be surprising to learn that, of the many maritime disputes in Asia, one of the most violent in the past few years has occurred between South Korea and China in the Yellow Sea.

On 16 October a 44-year-old Chinese fisherman died when hit by a rubber bullet fired by a member of the Republic of Korea Coast Guard, which had stopped a Chinese trawler fishing illegally in South Korea&#8217;s exclusive economic zone (EEZ). Past incidents include the death of two Chinese fishermen in December 2010, the killing of an ROK coast guardsman and the wounding of another in December 2011, and the wounding of four ROK fishing inspectors in April 2012. All of these incidents have involved suspected illegal fishing by Chinese vessels.

........
South Korean officials have cracked down on illegal fishing and doubled the fines for those who are caught. *China&#8217;s response to South Korea&#8217;s actions and to the violence has been relatively muted*. A spokesman for the Foreign Ministry noted &#8216;The Chinese side regrets that the relevant incident caused the death of an ROK coastguard, which is an unfortunate event. Currently the relevant authorities in China and South Korea are in close communication on investigating this situation. China is ready to work closely with South Korea to properly settle the issue.&#8217; South Korea and China have also held meetings for a fishing cooperation committee and established a hotline to help manage these incidents._"

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

Bravo South Korea!

ASEAN countries around SCS should learn from S.Korea!


----------



## Knight of Tang

No hurry. We won't be that stupid to deal with all of our problems simultaneously, there must be a priority 
As for S.Korea, they still have some value for us to fool around Japs, it won't be a problem to China at all since there's another Korea waiting for their chance for all the time...


Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> Bravo South Korea!
> 
> ASEAN countries around SCS should learn from S.Korea!


----------



## Viet

cirr said:


> Four CMS ships that joined the fleet in the last month or so:
> 
> CMS 110:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMS 137(departed for Diaoyu Islands 28.11.2012):




We are ready for water battles! Here comes a new Vietnam-built patrol vessel:

The DN 2000, at 90m long, 14m wide and 7m high, VN Marine Police biggest ship so far and can sail at 21 nautical miles per hour. The vessels crew includes 40 persons, the rescue team having 30 persons. Besides, it also has a landing platform for a Ka-28 naval helicopter (Russia).

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

*Hainans New Maritime Regulations: A Preliminary Analysis*
By M. Taylor Fravel
December 1, 2012





*Hainans Peoples Congress recently approved new regulations for the management of public order for coastal and border defense. Part of the regulations authorizes public security units to inspect, detain or expel foreign ships illegally entering waters under Hainans jurisdiction.* * As a result, initial reporting and analysis indicated that the regulations may provide a basis for China to challenge freedom of navigation in the vast disputed waters of the South China Sea.*

*As the full-text of the regulations have not been published, such conclusions are, at the very least, premature.* Moreover, based on information that is currently available, the regulations will likely focus on the activities of foreign ships and personnel within Hainans 12 nautical mile territorial seas and along Hainans coast, including its islands. The basis for this conclusion is analysis of a partial summary of the regulations that Xinhua published. 

The regulations govern the activities of Hainans public security border defense units (gong'an bianfang jiguan). This refers to Chinas public security border defense troops, which are part of the People's Armed Police but fall under the Ministry of Public Security and include the Maritime Police (haijing, also referred to as Chinas Coast Guard). These public security units are tasked with maintaining public order in China's border and coastal areas, including port security and immigration. However, they are not responsible for maintaining law and order within China's Exclusive Economic Zones (EEZ) or any maritime zone beyond the 12 nautical mile territorial sea. The China Marine Surveillance force under the State Oceanic Administration holds the primary responsibility for these duties along with the Maritime Safety Administration and Fisheries Law Enforcement Command. 

The details of the Hainan regulations indicate that the conditions under which public security border defense units are authorized to engage foreign vessels is limited. Here's the key paragraph from Xinhua:

&#12298;&#26465;&#20363;&#12299;&#23545;&#22806;&#22269;&#33337;&#33334;&#21450;&#20854;&#20154;&#21592;&#65292;&#36827;&#20837;&#28023;&#21335;&#31649;&#36758;&#28023;&#22495;&#19981;&#24471;&#26377;&#36829;&#21453;&#27839;&#28023;&#36793;&#38450;&#27835;&#23433;&#31649;&#29702;&#30340;&#34892;&#20026;&#36827;&#34892;&#20102;&#30028;&#23450;&#65292;&#21253;&#25324;&#65306;&#36890;&#36807;&#28023;&#21335;&#31649;&#36758;&#39046;&#28023;&#28023;&#22495;&#26102;&#38750;&#27861;&#20572;&#33337;&#25110;&#32773;&#19979;&#38170;&#65292;&#23547;&#34885;&#28363;&#20107;&#65307;&#26410;&#32463;&#26597;&#39564;&#20934;&#35768;&#25797;&#33258;&#20986;&#22659;&#20837;&#22659;&#25110;&#32773;&#26410;&#32463;&#25209;&#20934;&#25797;&#33258;&#25913;&#21464;&#20986;&#22659;&#20837;&#22659;&#21475;&#23736;&#65307;&#38750;&#27861;&#30331;&#19978;&#28023;&#21335;&#31649;&#36758;&#23707;&#23679;&#65307;&#30772;&#22351;&#28023;&#21335;&#31649;&#36758;&#23707;&#23679;&#19978;&#30340;&#28023;&#38450;&#35774;&#26045;&#25110;&#32773;&#29983;&#20135;&#29983;&#27963;&#35774;&#26045;&#65307;&#23454;&#26045;&#20405;&#29359;&#22269;&#23478;&#20027;&#26435;&#25110;&#32773;&#21361;&#23475;&#22269;&#23478;&#23433;&#20840;&#30340;&#23459;&#20256;&#27963;&#21160;&#21644;&#20854;&#20182;&#27861;&#24459;&#12289;&#27861;&#35268;&#35268;&#23450;&#36829;&#21453;&#27839;&#28023;&#36793;&#38450;&#27835;&#23433;&#31649;&#29702;&#30340;&#34892;&#20026;&#12290;

The paragraph defines six actions that could warrant boarding or other interference with foreign vessels: 1) vessels that stop or anchor with the 12 nautical mile territorial sea (linghai) or try to pick a quarrel, 2) vessels that enter ports without approval or inspection, 3) the illegal landing on islands under the administration of Hainan, 4) the destruction of coastal defenses or production facilities on islands under the administration of Hainan, 5) violations of national sovereignty or propaganda activities that threaten national security, and 6) other actions that threaten the management of public order in coastal and border areas.

The only maritime zone mentioned specifically in the regulations is China's 12 nautical mile territorial sea, where it enjoys more or less the equivalent of sovereign powers under the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea. There is no specific reference to boarding foreign vessels in other zones such as the EEZ, though apparent language from the preamble refers broadly to "waters under Hainan's administration" that could include areas in the South China Sea beyond 12 nautical miles. Nevertheless, the actions outlined above are all concern with Chinese territory or territorial waters  not the much larger maritime areas that press accounts have suggested. This is, moreover, consistent with the duties of the China's public security border defense units that are the subject of the regulations. 

The impact on disputed areas in the South China Sea is likely to be minimal in the short to medium-term. In the regulations, the reference to the islands under Hainans administration indicates that they could be used to justify or rationalize the interference with the navigation of foreign vessels in territorial waters around islands and other features that China either occupies or claims in the South China Sea. However, the Chinese navy and not public security border forces are responsible for the defense of the islands that China holds. Whether public security units are granted a greater role in disputed areas is a key indicator to track.

In addition, Hainan is not the only Chinese province to pass new regulations governing public order in coastal and border areas. Within the past week, Zhejiang and Hebei have also passed similar regulations. Importantly, Hebei is not adjacent to any disputed maritime areas. This suggests a broader effort among coastal provinces to strengthen the management of public order in border and coastal areas and not a specific focus on disputed areas, though the regulations are relevant as discussed above.

In sum, although the regulations establish a legal basis for Hainans public security border defense units to board or seize foreign vessels on or near disputed islands, they are unlikely to result in a major change in China's behavior in the disputed waters of the South China Sea. Policing Chinas EEZ is the responsibility of the China Marine Surveillance and the Fisheries Law Enforcement Command, not public security units. Nevertheless, given the applicability to disputed islands and adjacent territorial waters, China should clarify when and where these regulations apply.

M. Taylor Fravel is an Associate Professor of Political Science and member of the Security Studies Program at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. He can be followed on Twitter @fravel.


----------



## WuMaoCleverbot

*China&#8217;s 'new rule' in South China Sea is threat to all countries &#8212; DFA*
December 1, 2012 2:49pm

Chinese authorities&#8217; reported plan to board and search ships that "illegally" enter the South China Sea, which includes the West Philippine Sea, is a &#8220;direct threat&#8221; to all countries, the Department of Foreign Affairs said Saturday.

&#8220;If media reports are accurate, this planned action by China is illegal and will validate... pronouncements by the Philippines that China&#8217;s claim of indisputable sovereignty over virtually the entire South China Sea is not only an excessive claim but a threat to all countries,&#8221; the DFA said in a statement.

Quoting from the official China Daily, Reuters earlier reported that a new rule, which will come into effect on Jan. 1, will allow police in the southern Chinese province of Hainan to board and seize control of foreign ships that "illegally enter" Chinese waters and order them to change course or stop sailing.

&#8220;If media reports are accurate, then China's planned action will be a gross violation of the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea (DoC), international law, particularly UNCLOS, and a direct threat to the entire international community as it violates not only the maritime domain of coastal states established under UNCLOS, but also impedes the fundamental freedom of navigation and lawful commerce,&#8221; DFA said.

Apart from Philippines and China, other countries such as Taiwan, Vietnam, Brunei and Malaysia claim various parts of the South China Sea as part of their territories.

Earlier, ASEAN (Association of Southeast Asian Nations) Secretary-General Surin Pitsuwan noted that China&#8217;s plan will escalate tension in the region.

"My reaction is (this is) certainly an escalation of the tension that has already been building. And it is a very serious turn of events," he said.

On December 12, South China Sea claimants &#8211; excluding China &#8211; will hold a meeting in Manila discussing &#8220;viable options to move the issue forward&#8221; and find a &#8220;peaceful resolution&#8221; to the unresolved territorial row in the disputed seas.

Taiwan, Vietnam, Brunei and Malaysia are set to attend the meeting, which will be hosted by the Philippines.

Manila and Beijing&#8217;s standoff began in April after Chinese vessels were caught poaching in Panatag (Scarborough) Shoal. Before Filipino authorities can make arrests, Chinese ships blocked their path. &#8212; Rouchelle R. Dinglasan /LBG, GMA News

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Viet

We are going to take tough actions against violators of our waters, too!



*Vietnam´s Fishery Control Forces to join sea sovereignty protection*
TUOITRENEWS A+ A-
Updated : Sat, December 1, 2012,2:53 PM (GMT+0700)





_Vietnam´s Fishery Control Forces is responsible for checking, supervising, preventing and dealing with fishing boats or foreign vessels that break into Vietnam&#8217;s exclusive economic zone, Vietnam&#8217;s continent shelf and Vietnam&#8217;s waters._






*Vietnam&#8217;s fishery control forces *will take part in defending the country&#8217;s sovereignty over sea territory, according to a *new decree that will take effect on January 25, 2013.*

Under Decree102/2012/ND-CP of the Government on the organization and operation of fishery control forces, these forces are the State&#8217;s specialized units that is set up under the Ministry of Agriculture and Rural Development&#8217;s Fisheries General Department. 

According to the decree, *fishery control forces will check and inspect fishery activities in the country&#8217;s sea areas* to protect fishermen at sea and handle violations of regulations on fisheries.

Fishery controllers have the right to* impose administrative penalties or preventive measures against violations of regulations on fisheries by domestic or foreign individual and organizations that carry out fishery activities in Vietnam&#8217;s sea areas.
*
Fishery control units will also take part in defending the country&#8217;s sovereignty, sovereignty rights, and jurisdictions over sea territory under applicable laws and rules.

In addition, these units are required to join international cooperation activities in the field of fisheries under international treaties to which Vietnam has signed or acceded. These forces are also expected to take part in anti-disaster activities and coordination of search and rescue operations.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cirr

More ships join the rank:


----------



## cirr

Viet said:


> We are ready for water battles! Here comes a new Vietnam-built patrol vessel:
> 
> The DN 2000, at 90m long, 14m wide and 7m high, VN Marine Police biggest ship so far and can sail at 21 nautical miles per hour. The vessels crew includes 40 persons, the rescue team having 30 persons. Besides, it also has a landing platform for a Ka-28 naval helicopter (Russia).



Be patient, for 2013 is the year during which upwards of 60 of various so-called "public service" ships, will be launched at various shipyards in China. I will post pictures as and when they become available. If China so decides, it would be cakewalk for the country to build hundreds of such ships a year with tonnage ranging from several hundreds to several thousands or more. Indeed that's exactly what China intends to do in the next 3-5 years. By 2015 there will be so many CMS, CFS, CCS and CCP ships patrolling the South China Sea that one might find the place a pond than a sea. Give us some time. Ok?


----------



## cirr

Freshly minted for having some fun in the South China Sea&#65306;


----------



## EastSea

cirr said:


> Be patient, for 2013 is the year during which upwards of 60 of various so-called "public service" ships, will be launched at various shipyards in China. I will post pictures as and when they become available. If China so decides, it would be cakewalk for the country to build hundreds of such ships a year with tonnage ranging from several hundreds to several thousands or more. Indeed that's exactly what China intends to do in the next 3-5 years. By 2015 there will be so many CMS, CFS, CCS and CCP ships patrolling the South China Sea that one might find the place a pond than a sea. Give us some time. Ok?



we can do what is necessary for defend our sea and Islands.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## NiceGuy

Let's cover the whole SCS(east sea) by sea mines, then all China-Taiwan's oil tankers, merchans ship passing through will sail to Hell, HongKong-Taiwan-Macau surely will go back to poor and dirty fishing villages

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cirr

Are you saying you are ready for cave life&#65311;

China will be quite happy to oblige if you ever dare as much as stick up a finger&#12290;


----------



## cirr

2.12.2012 Two additional ships join the ranks of CMS&#65306;












 More are on their way&#12290;


----------



## Viet

cirr said:


> 2.12.2012 Two additional ships join the ranks of CMS&#65306;
> More are on their way&#12290;



that is not fair.


----------



## Soryu

gpit said:


> China broke up several times in the history. What's big deal?
> 
> Much to your horror, *you may not have the history knowledge that every time China broke up, it reunified with bigger territory.*
> 
> And what is relevant to your Viets is that many times China reunified, Vietnam became a province of China.
> 
> The oldest being when Qin dynasty broke up and Han unified China, Vietnam became China's province (under first Chinese domination in 111 BC, as your history called it).
> 
> Whereas the 4th Chinese domination of Vietnam (again as you call it), this is when Ming Dynasty chased out Yuan after China broke up and Vietnam thought it was the time to make trouble, and it ended up being Chinas province.
> 
> Often, when Vietnam became part of China, its civilization got an unprecedented boost. Of course, it is not to deny that there were many instances that Viets were suppressed by their rulers, just as there were more instances that ordinary Chinese were suppressed by their rulers.



Pls, You should study hard about history before you speak,

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Viet

This article is more than one year old, though it is still fresh since situation has not changed much in the South China Sea.




*Billiards in the East Sea*
Posted on July 6, 2011 vietnamnet | by Michael Auslin (WSJ)








VietNamNet Bridge &#8211; In the South China Sea (East Sea), *China is playing billiards, while America is playing some version of Capture the Flag. *For Beijing, the goal is to knock the other billiard balls off the table, leaving itself in control. Washington, on the other hand, is trying to keep Beijing from capturing the flag of regional hegemony.

American policy makers need to recognize they&#8217;re playing a different game from the Chinese and adjust their strategy. While shifting to billiards is too provocative for Washington, if trends continue, it may soon find itself behind the eight ball with few options for maintaining its stabilizing role in the region.

Observers have two different interpretations of what the Chinese challenge actually is. *Many in Washington believe that China threatens freedom of navigation in the South China Sea*, thereby potentially harming U.S. national interests, including uncontested passage of U.S. Navy ships, the free flow of global economic trade and maritime lifelines to U.S. allies such as Japan and South Korea.

By contrast, many in Southeast Asia believe that the issue is one of control over territorial resources. By some estimates, the region holds as much as 30 billion barrels of oil and over 200 trillion cubic feet of natural gas. While dozens of oil fields are already being explored, it is the ability to control future exploration and exploitation of such resources that is driving China&#8217;s behavior.

Beijing&#8217;s claim of the entire East Sea puts it into a position to contest the ownership of territories that contain proven resources. The most likely flashpoints are the Spratly and Paracel Islands, each of which is claimed by multiple nations, including China, Taiwan, *Vietnam *and the Philippines. This is the same dynamic at play in the dispute between *Japan *and China over the Senkaku Islands.

China&#8217;s territorial claims can be most effectively exercised by having the capability both to move anywhere in the region&#8217;s waters as well as to prevent other nations from navigating freely. Thus, harassing and shadowing the navies and maritime exploration vessels of other countries serves as a de facto test of Beijing&#8217;s strength and influence. As the surface fleet of its Navy grows, its ability to deploy and cover more territory takes on added meaning with the displays of assertiveness of the past years.

There is little reason to believe that Beijing has any thought (let alone the ability) to seriously hamper regional navigation; such blatantly aggressive moves would be immediately challenged by the U.S. Navy. Yet, making clear its ability to do so can result in political pressure being put on smaller nations to surrender or modify their territorial claims and to curb their legitimate maritime activities.

This all may not quite amount to a strategy, but it certainly resembles the tactics of the billiard table. Beijing targets the billiard balls of its neighbors, trying to knock them off the table one by one.

In response, Southeast Asian countries have started clamoring for the U.S. to intervene. The *Philippines *last week said that its 1951 defense treaty with the U.S. would cover Chinese threats.

But the U.S. answer isn&#8217;t so easy. If Washington pushes too hard and asks Southeast Asian nations to significantly increase joint maritime activities, it will likely find that Hanoi, Manila, Jakarta and the rest fear making China an enemy even more than they fear China acting as a bully. Too little response by the Americans, however, will convince the smaller nations that they might have no choice but to accede to China&#8217;s wishes.

In balancing these concerns, Washington has ended up playing a completely different game. As a status quo power, Washington has largely been reactive to Chinese testing of the limits of regional norms. Instead of punishing China for its provocations, American policy has tried to reassure Beijing of America&#8217;s goodwill and convince Chinese leaders that it poses no threat to China&#8217;s growing influence. It is hoped this will induce the Chinese to act responsibly, even when tweaked by smaller nations.

*The best way forward is to recognize China&#8217;s game, start playing it and then rig the table. *Washington should seek to expand the billiard table by putting more balls into play. *India *has just announced plans to increase naval patrols in the Andaman and Nicobar Islands, which lie at the Indian Ocean entrance to the Malacca Strait. Japan has made a strategic shift to focus on its &#8220;southwestern island wall&#8221; stretching from Kyushu to just north of Taiwan. *Australia *will be modernizing and doubling its submarine fleet over the next decade.

Then Washington should induce these partners to play a bigger role near disputed waters through greater engagement with Southeast Asian nations. Further, U.S. and allied ships should shadow Chinese vessels when they start to approach contested territory and move quickly to areas where incidents have occurred.

More broadly, Washington&#8217;s goal, executed through *Hawaii-based Pacific Command,* should be to create a more active maritime community of interests in the Indo-Pacific arc and to counter Chinese moves where they occur. Greater sharing of intelligence resources, joint training, coordinated (if not joint) patrols and the like will provide the measure of security necessary to ensure smaller nations that their international rights are being protected.* U.S. and allied ships should have no compunction about shadowing Chinese naval vessels when they start to approach contested territory*.

Finally, political bluntness, such as that of U.S. Senator Jim Webb, who warned of a coming &#8220;*Munich moment*&#8221; in Asia, will clarify the issues at stake. Whether it wants to or not, America will have to start nudging some billiard balls around the table.

Michael Auslin (WSJ)

* Mr. Auslin is the director of Japan studies at the American Enterprise Institute and a columnist for WSJ.com. He is the author of &#8220;Pacific Cosmopolitans: A Cultural History of U.S.-Japan Relations&#8221; (Harvard University Press, 2011).

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

*Indian navy ready to deploy to South China Sea as tensions climb*
HANOI/NEW DELHI | Tue Dec 4, 2012 7:46am IST

(Reuters) - India has declared itself ready to deploy naval vessels to the South China Sea to protect its oil-exploration interests there, a potential new escalation of tensions in a disputed area where fears of armed conflict have been growing steadily.

India's naval chief made the statement on Monday just as Vietnam's state oil and gas company, Petrovietnam, accused Chinese boats of sabotaging an exploration operation by cutting a seismic cable being towed behind a Vietnamese vessel.

Petrovietnam said the seismic vessel, Binh Minh 02, had been operating outside the Gulf of Tonkin when the cable was severed on Friday. It had earlier been surveying the Nam Con Son basin further south -- an area where Indian state-run explorer Oil and Natural Gas Corp (ONGC) has a stake in a Vietnamese gas field.

Indian Navy Chief Admiral D.K Joshi said that, while India was not a territorial claimant in the South China Sea, it was prepared to act, if necessary, to protect its maritime and economic interests in the region.

"When the requirement is there, for example, in situations where our country's interests are involved, for example ONGC ... we will be required to go there and we are prepared for that," Joshi told a news conference.

"Now, are we preparing for it? Are we having exercises of that nature? The short answer is yes," he said.

Petrovietnam posted on its website comments made by the deputy head of exploration, Pham Viet Dung, to a journalist from Vietnam's Petrotimes that the seismic cable was quickly repaired and the survey resumed the following day.

"The blatant violation of Vietnamese waters by Chinese fishing vessels not only violates the sovereignty ... of Vietnam but also interferes in the normal operations of Vietnamese fishermen and affects the maritime activities of Petrovietnam," Dung was quoted as saying.

Indian navy ready to deploy to South China Sea as tensions climb | Reuters

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

*Singapore concerned over China's South China Sea rule*
By Kevin Lim, Reuters
Posted at 12/03/2012

SINGAPORE - Singapore expressed concern on Monday over China's plan to board and search ships sailing in what it considers its territory in the South China Sea, as tension grows over Beijing's sovereignty claims in busy Southeast Asian waters.

"Singapore is concerned about this recent turn of events," the Ministry of Foreign Affairs said in response to a recent Chinese media report on new rules that will allow police in the southern Chinese province of Hainan to board and seize control of foreign ships which "illegally enter" its waters from Jan. 1.

Wealthy Singapore, home to the world's second-busiest container port, is the second Southeast Asian country to publicly express concern over the new rules after the Philippines on Saturday condemned the Chinese plan as illegal.

http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/global-filipino/world/12/03/12/singapore-concerned-over-chinas-south-china-sea-rule

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

*China&#8217;s 'new rule' in South China Sea is threat to all countries &#8212; DFA*
December 1, 2012 2:49pm

Chinese authorities&#8217; reported plan to board and search ships that "illegally" enter the South China Sea, which includes the West Philippine Sea, is a &#8220;direct threat&#8221; to all countries, the Department of Foreign Affairs said Saturday.

&#8220;If media reports are accurate, this planned action by China is illegal and will validate... pronouncements by the Philippines that China&#8217;s claim of indisputable sovereignty over virtually the entire South China Sea is not only an excessive claim but a threat to all countries,&#8221; the DFA said in a statement.

Quoting from the official China Daily, Reuters earlier reported that a new rule, which will come into effect on Jan. 1, will allow police in the southern Chinese province of Hainan to board and seize control of foreign ships that "illegally enter" Chinese waters and order them to change course or stop sailing.

&#8220;If media reports are accurate, then China's planned action will be a gross violation of the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea (DoC), international law, particularly UNCLOS, and a direct threat to the entire international community as it violates not only the maritime domain of coastal states established under UNCLOS, but also impedes the fundamental freedom of navigation and lawful commerce,&#8221; DFA said.

Apart from Philippines and China, other countries such as Taiwan, Vietnam, Brunei and Malaysia claim various parts of the South China Sea as part of their territories.

Earlier, ASEAN (Association of Southeast Asian Nations) Secretary-General Surin Pitsuwan noted that China&#8217;s plan will escalate tension in the region.

"My reaction is (this is) certainly an escalation of the tension that has already been building. And it is a very serious turn of events," he said.

On December 12, South China Sea claimants &#8211; excluding China &#8211; will hold a meeting in Manila discussing &#8220;viable options to move the issue forward&#8221; and find a &#8220;peaceful resolution&#8221; to the unresolved territorial row in the disputed seas.

Taiwan, Vietnam, Brunei and Malaysia are set to attend the meeting, which will be hosted by the Philippines.

Manila and Beijing&#8217;s standoff began in April after Chinese vessels were caught poaching in Panatag (Scarborough) Shoal. Before Filipino authorities can make arrests, Chinese ships blocked their path. &#8212; Rouchelle R. Dinglasan /LBG, GMA News

China&rsquo;s &#39;new rule&#39; in South China Sea is threat to all countries &mdash; DFA | News | GMA News Online | The Go-To Site for Filipinos Everywhere

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

Now It is time for the whole world stand up to *protect Freedom of Navigation* in SCS!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

How many DDGs are there under construction in this group of photos taken of JN Shipyard this morning 4.12.2012&#65311;


























No prizes for guessing right&#12290;


----------



## cirr

Also at JN Shipyard are Yuanwang-21 the Launch Vehicle Transporter&#65306;






and Yuming&#65292;48000-ton teaching practice ship for Shanghai Maritine University:






Yuanwang-7&#12289;a couple of Type 039B submarines&#12289;several minesweepers/hunters and LCACs are also under construction at the same No. 3
Production Line&#65292;a line that is mostly dedicated to the building of naval assets at JN&#12290;

As for Production Lines 1 and 2&#65292; well&#12290;&#12290;&#12290; later will be put into good use soon&#12290;A grand drama is about to be unveiled&#12290;


----------



## HongWu

Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> *China&#8217;s 'new rule' in South China Sea is threat to all countries &#8212; DFA*
> December 1, 2012 2:49pm
> 
> Chinese authorities&#8217; reported plan to board and search ships that "illegally" enter the South China Sea, which includes the West Philippine Sea, is a &#8220;direct threat&#8221; to all countries, the Department of Foreign Affairs said Saturday.
> 
> &#8220;If media reports are accurate, this planned action by China is illegal and will validate... pronouncements by the Philippines that China&#8217;s claim of indisputable sovereignty over virtually the entire South China Sea is not only an excessive claim but a threat to all countries,&#8221; the DFA said in a statement.
> 
> Quoting from the official China Daily, Reuters earlier reported that a new rule, which will come into effect on Jan. 1, will allow police in the southern Chinese province of Hainan to board and seize control of foreign ships that "illegally enter" Chinese waters and order them to change course or stop sailing.
> 
> &#8220;If media reports are accurate, then China's planned action will be a gross violation of the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea (DoC), international law, particularly UNCLOS, and a direct threat to the entire international community as it violates not only the maritime domain of coastal states established under UNCLOS, but also impedes the fundamental freedom of navigation and lawful commerce,&#8221; DFA said.
> 
> Apart from Philippines and China, other countries such as Taiwan, Vietnam, Brunei and Malaysia claim various parts of the South China Sea as part of their territories.
> 
> Earlier, ASEAN (Association of Southeast Asian Nations) Secretary-General Surin Pitsuwan noted that China&#8217;s plan will escalate tension in the region.
> 
> "My reaction is (this is) certainly an escalation of the tension that has already been building. And it is a very serious turn of events," he said.
> 
> On December 12, South China Sea claimants &#8211; excluding China &#8211; will hold a meeting in Manila discussing &#8220;viable options to move the issue forward&#8221; and find a &#8220;peaceful resolution&#8221; to the unresolved territorial row in the disputed seas.
> 
> Taiwan, Vietnam, Brunei and Malaysia are set to attend the meeting, which will be hosted by the Philippines.
> 
> Manila and Beijing&#8217;s standoff began in April after Chinese vessels were caught poaching in Panatag (Scarborough) Shoal. Before Filipino authorities can make arrests, Chinese ships blocked their path. &#8212; Rouchelle R. Dinglasan /LBG, GMA News
> 
> China&rsquo;s &#39;new rule&#39; in South China Sea is threat to all countries &mdash; DFA | News | GMA News Online | The Go-To Site for Filipinos Everywhere


  Last time USA left its ally Philippines alone to fight China over Scarborough Shoal. This time Viets can cry and beg again when our coast guard bullies your fisherman and cuts your oil exploration cables. Our aircraft carrier and J-15 need some live target practice.


----------



## Pak2

Are you Chinese Spy HongWu?


----------



## Viet

HongWu said:


> Last time USA left its ally Philippines alone to fight China over Scarborough Shoal. This time Viets can cry and beg again *when our coast guard bullies your fisherman and cuts your oil exploration cables*. Our aircraft carrier and J-15 need some live target practice.




Don´t dare to repeat the same provocation!

If the PLA leaders haven´t noticed, the Vietnamese government will not tolerate any further provocations. Any foreign vessels that break into Vietnams exclusive economic zone (EEZ), continent shelf and internal waters without prior permission are military targets. Our east coast equipped with the latest cruise missiles funtions like a giant battle ship covering the entire South China Sea. Just feel free and send your junk carrier into disputed waters.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

*Vietnam Marine Police seize 11 Indonesian pirates*
Tuoitrenews | 
Updated : Fri, November 23, 2012,10:45 AM (GMT+0700)






Vietnamese marine police escort the pirates to its office in Vung Tau
Photo: Tuoi Tre


Vietnam marine police detained 11 pirates who had attacked and commandeered a *Malaysian*-flagged ship, forcing nine sailors to leave the ship in a life raft off Vietnam&#8217;s southern Vung Tau city.

At 9:30 pm yesterday a police boat of the Vietnam Marine Police Department landed in Vung Tau bringing along 11 pirates who had been arrested on the Zafirah ship they had robbed after forcing all nine crewmembers to leave the ship in a life raft.

According to initial testimonies of the pirates, they all are Indonesians.

Earlier on the afternoon of November 19, the Department received messages from the *Pirate Information Center* under the International Maritime Bureau located in* Kuala Lumpur*, Malaysia that the Zafirah had gone missing and it could have been attacked by pirates.

The latest location of the ship where the ship&#8217;s owner could contact the crew was about 110 nautical miles from Vietnam&#8217;s exclusive economic zone.

Ordered by the Department,* five police boats were deployed to track down the ship in distress*. On November 20, the police found out that the ship had entered Vietnam&#8217;s territorial waters and changed its directions continuously to avoid detection.

On the morning of November 21, two local fishing boats, BV95192 and BV92350, found nine Zafirah sailors &#8211; five Burmese and four Indonesians &#8211; drifting on a life raft and rescued them.

Yesterday morning a rescue boat from the Vietnam Maritime Rescue Coordination Center (MRCC) took these sailors to Vung Tau.






Colonel Dao Quang Hien (R), Chief of Staff of the Ba Ria-Vung Tau Province Border Guard, received the Zafirah ship's captain, Sann Winnaung, and other crewmembers in Vung Tau yesterday morning (Photo: Tuoi Tre)

The ship&#8217;s captain, Sann Winnaung, a 56-year-old Burmese, told Vietnamese sea police that the pirates, all wearing masks, threatened that they would kill any sailors who resisted them.

The pirates then stole the ship after dropping all nine crewmembers on the life raft, the victims said.

At 2:20 Thursday two police boats spotted the stolen ship and signaled to ask it to stop. Police used loudspeakers to call on the pirates to surrender, but they rejected the calling and continued sailing.
*
Colonel Le Xuan Thanh, commander of the Zone III Maritime Police, ordered his staff to open fire to attack the pirates.*

At 4:50 pm police seized all of the 11 pirates and no casualties occurred during the attack and seizure, police said.





Saved crewmembers were taken safely to Vung Tau yesterday morning (Photo: Tuoi Tre)





Rescued sailors talking with a deputy director of the Vung Tau MRCC, Luong Truong Phi (L) (Photo: Tuoi Tre)


----------



## Rechoice

*Chinese ships cut cable of VN vessel*
VietNamNet Bridge &#8211; The Viet Nam National Oil and Gas Group (PetroVietnam) yesterday, Dec 3, confirmed an incident involving one of its ships and Chinese vessels.







Answering questions from the media, Deputy Head of PetroVietnam's Search and Exploration Division Pham Viet Dung said that the incident happened at 4:05am last Friday when the Binh Minh 02 was attempting to carry out a seismic survey on the Vietnamese continental shelf around the Bac Bo (Tonkin) Gulf.

The ship reportedly encountered a number of Chinese fishing boats and sent warning signals asking them to leave the area the ship was working in. Two Chinese boats numbered 16025 and 16028 ran up behind Binh Minh 02, cutting the Vietnamese ship's seismic survey cables.

Following the incident, PetroVietnam immediately ordered relevant departments and the ship's crew to rectify the problem. By 2pm on Saturday, all the cables had been repaired and the ship had resumed work.

Dung objected to the action and requested relevant agencies to ask Chinese citizens to respect Viet Nam's sovereignty and not interfere with the operations of Vietnamese ships, including seismic survey ships belonging to PetroVietnam.

A similar incident happened in May last year when three Chinese ships cut the cables of Binh Minh 02 while it was carrying out an exploratory mission. 

VietNamNet/VNS

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cirr

As if it were not enough&#65292;and following #605&#65292;the skeletons of 2 more Type 052D DDGs were spotted at JN&#65306;


----------



## Zero_wing

HongWu said:


> Last time USA left its ally Philippines alone to fight China over Scarborough Shoal. This time Viets can cry and beg again when our coast guard bullies your fisherman and cuts your oil exploration cables. Our aircraft carrier and J-15 need some live target practice.



Really the reason you won because you lied about withdrawing your government requested us to talk and for that to happen both countries ships must withdraw from the area! that's how you won by lying? Just like what you people are doing in Africa some great victory next time we will get even so were not mad we are waiting for the right chance lets if you can bully us when our new planes/ship arrive since they are ready to sail we can be faster than your drydocks ships will be as the saying goes dont get mad get even and thank you for telling the whole world that your jerks with some need of @$$kicking i can't wait to see those cheap planes become junk after we get our hands on new planes from From Italy/South Korea/ America and the rest and our weapons from Europe and American and south American which coming in two months time and the first months of next year So thank you again you arrogant jerks.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Minjitta

Chinese ships cut cable of VN vessel
HA NOI (VNS) The Viet Nam National Oil and Gas Group (PetroVietnam) yesterday confirmed an incident involving one of its ships and Chinese vessels.
Answering questions from the media, Deputy Head of PetroVietnam's Search and Exploration Division Pham Viet Dung said that the incident happened at 4:05am last Friday when the Binh Minh 02 was attempting to carry out a seismic survey on the Vietnamese continental shelf around the Bac Bo (Tonkin) Gulf.
The ship reportedly encountered a number of Chinese fishing boats and sent warning signals asking them to leave the area the ship was working in. Two Chinese boats numbered 16025 and 16028 ran up behind Binh Minh 02, cutting the Vietnamese ship's seismic survey cables.
Following the incident, PetroVietnam immediately ordered relevant departments and the ship's crew to rectify the problem. By 2pm on Saturday, all the cables had been repaired and the ship had resumed work.
Dung objected to the action and requested relevant agencies to ask Chinese citizens to respect Viet Nam's sovereignty and not interfere with the operations of Vietnamese ships, including seismic survey ships belonging to PetroVietnam.
A similar incident happened in May last year when three Chinese ships cut the cables of Binh Minh 02 while it was carrying out an exploratory mission.  VNS

Chinese ships cut cable of VN vessel - Politics & Laws | Politics, Business, Economy, Society, Life, Sports - VietNam News - VietNam News


----------



## Minjitta

Vietnam protests as Chinese ships again harass Vietnamese vessel 

The Vietnamese Foreign Ministry summoned a Chinese embassy representative Monday to protest the latest incident at sea when a Vietnamese ship had its cables cut by Chinese fishing vessels, news webiste Petrotimes reported.

The ministry handed over a diplomatic note to the Chinese envoy about the incident that occurred on November 30.

International experts warn that such action by Chinese ships in Vietnamese waters for the second time in nearly two years shows China will be unrelenting in staking its territorial claims in the East Sea, internationally known as the South China Sea.

Speaking to Thanh Nien on the phone Monday after PetroVietnams news website Petrotimes reported that the groups exploration vessel Binh Minh 02 was harassed -- the same ship that was targeted 18 months ago -- Carl Thayer, a maritime analyst at the University of New South Wales in Canberra, said the latest incident was a highly provocative act.

It means that countries like Vietnam would find it more difficult to get foreign companies to work with them, if China keeps this up, he said.

While it is unclear if the Chinese government is involved in the recent incidents, the new passports printed with the nine-dash line showing Chinas claims over 90 percent of the East Sea, and the harassment of Binh Minh 02 indicated that China will be unrelenting in trying to stake out its claims, he said.

He noted that since a code of conduct aimed at easing tensions in the East Sea would be finalized between ASEAN and China in two years' time, China is stepping up provocation while it still can, and there is no pressure on it to play the game diplomatically.

Kerry Brown, former head of the Asia Program at Chatham House, a London-based think tank, said China's latest act signals it is in no mood to compromise on maritime border issues.

But it is not yet a hard strategic move, but largely a gesture, he said.

This is a game China is playing to feel out the space it has around it and also assert some sort of strength to itself.

Pressure has to be put on China so it goes the international legal route and acts like a major power, not plays these old-style games that undermine its moral standing and reveal its insecurity and uncertainty.

Petrotimes quoted Pham Viet Dung, deputy chief of PetroVietnam's exploration and search department and chief of its East Sea Office, as saying that two Chinese fishing ships went past the stern of the Binh Minh 02 and severed its cables at around 4.05 a.m. on November 30 when it was about to start seismic exploration in Vinh Bac Bo (the Gulf on Tonkin).

It happened some 43 nautical miles southeast of Con Co Island off Vietnams north-central province of Quang Tri, and 20 nautical miles on the Vietnamese side of the Vietnam-China median line in the Gulf of Tonkin, Dung said.

PetroVietnam ordered the broken cables quickly fixed and the Binh Minh 02 resumed normal work at around 2 p.m. the next day, he said. It has been carrying out seismic exploration of Vietnams continental shelf since May.

According to Dung, many Chinese fishing ships had been operating there before the vessel arrived, and Vietnamese agencies had warned them to leave.

Recently many Chinese ships have illegally entered Vietnamese waters to fish, mainly in the area between Con Co Island and the south of Tri Ton Island in the Hoang Sa Archipelago, he said.

There have been days when there were more than 100 of them, and they intentionally keep entering Vietnamese waters despite orders to leave from Vietnamese authorities, he said.

That Chinese fishing ships enter Vietnamese waters for fishing not only infringes on Vietnams sovereignty, but also obstructs the normal activities of Vietnamese fishermen and affects PetroVietnams activities at sea.

PetroVietnam has asked Chinese authorities to educate their citizens about respecting Vietnamese sovereignty, he said.

In May last year Binh Minh 02 had its cables severed by a Chinese marine surveillance vessel some 80 nautical miles off Nha Trang, and 370 nautical miles south of China's Hainan Island.

Two weeks later, the Viking II, a Norwegian ship contracted by a joint venture between PetroVietnam Technical Services Corporation and the French-owned CGG Veritas, was also harassed by Chinese ships when it was operating near the Dai Hung oil field 270 kilometers off the southern province of Vung Tau.

Thank you China for creating opportunity for Japan and Vietnam relation much closer, and maybe India too.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Minjitta

Thank you China for giving Japan, Vietnam and maybe India an opportunity to be close friends.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## gpit

Soryu said:


> Pls, You should study hard about history before you speak,



This is my study of *your history* how first Chinese domination of Vietnam occurred after Qin when China was broke up and Han (west Han) reunified China and then annexed Vietnam.

As sumptuous Vietnamese killed all Han diplomats then killed Han soldiers and cheating to Han emperor, but Han &#20239;&#27874;&#23558;&#20891;&#36335;&#21338;&#24503; made Vietnam (today&#8217;s north Vietnam) China&#8217;s province :

&#21525;&#22025;&#36930;&#19979;&#20196;&#22269;&#20013;&#26352;&#65306;&#8220;&#29579;&#24180;&#23569;&#12290;&#22826;&#21518;&#65292;&#26412;&#27721;&#20154;&#20063;&#12290;&#21448;&#19982;&#27721;&#20351;&#32773;&#20081;&#65292;&#19987;&#27442;&#20869;&#38468;&#65292;&#23613;&#25345;&#20808;&#29579;&#23453;&#22120;&#20837;&#29486;&#20110;&#27721;&#65292;&#20197;&#33258;&#23194;&#65292;&#22810;&#20174;&#20154;&#65288;&#20035;&#30456;&#20174;&#20043;&#20154;&#20063;&#65289;&#65292;&#34892;&#33267;&#38271;&#23433;&#65292;&#34383;&#21334;&#20197;&#20026;&#31461;&#20166;&#65292;&#33258;&#21462;&#19968;&#26102;&#20043;&#21033;&#65292;&#26080;&#39038;&#36213;&#27663;&#31038;&#31287;&#65292;&#20026;&#19975;&#19990;&#35745;&#34385;&#20043;&#24847;&#12290;&#8221;&#20035;&#19982;&#20854;&#24351;&#23558;&#21330;&#25915;&#29579;&#65292;&#36930;&#24337;&#29579;&#19982;&#22826;&#21518;&#65292;&#23613;&#26432;&#27721;&#20351;&#32773;&#65292;&#36963;&#20154;&#21578;&#33485;&#26791;&#31206;&#29579;&#21450;&#35832;&#37089;&#37009;&#65292;&#31435;&#26126;&#29579;&#38271;&#23376;&#26415;&#38451;&#20399;&#24314;&#24503;&#20026;&#29579;&#12290;&#29579;&#24050;&#36935;&#23475;&#65292;&#35877;&#26352;&#21696;&#29579;&#12290;


&#26102;&#65292;&#20908;&#21313;&#19968;&#26376;&#65292;&#23472;&#30456;&#21525;&#22025;&#26082;&#31435;&#29579;&#65292;&#32780;&#38889;&#21315;&#31179;&#20853;&#20837;&#22659;&#65292;&#30772;&#25968;&#23567;&#37009;&#12290;&#22025;&#20035;&#24320;&#30452;&#36947;&#32473;&#39135;&#65292;&#26410;&#33267;&#30058;&#31162;&#22235;&#21313;&#37324;&#65292;&#20986;&#20853;&#20987;&#21315;&#31179;&#31561;&#28781;&#20043;&#12290;&#20351;&#20154;&#20989;&#23553;&#27721;&#20351;&#33410;&#32622;&#22622;&#19978;&#65288;&#21363;&#22823;&#24254;&#23725;&#21517;&#65289;&#12290;&#22909;&#20026;&#35881;&#36766;&#65288;&#27450;&#35784;&#20043;&#35821;&#20063;&#65289;&#65292;&#20197;&#35874;&#32618;&#65292;&#21457;&#20853;&#23432;&#35201;&#23475;&#22788;&#12290;&#27721;&#24093;&#38395;&#20043;&#65292;&#36963;&#20239;&#27874;&#23558;&#20891;&#36335;&#21338;&#24503;&#20986;&#26690;&#38451;&#65292;&#27004;&#33337;&#23558;&#20891;&#26472;&#20166;&#20986;&#35947;&#31456;&#65292;&#25096;&#33337;&#23558;&#20891;&#20005;&#65288;&#21517;&#20005;&#65292;&#21490;&#22833;&#20854;&#22995;&#65289;&#20986;&#38646;&#38517;&#65292;&#19979;&#28625;&#23558;&#20891;&#30002;&#65288;&#21517;&#30002;&#65292;&#21490;&#22833;&#20854;&#22995;&#65289;&#19979;&#33485;&#26791;&#65292;&#39536;&#20041;&#20399;&#36149;&#65288;&#21517;&#36149;&#65292;&#21490;&#22833;&#20854;&#22995;&#65289;&#21457;&#22812;&#37070;&#20853;&#65292;&#19979;&#29250;&#29249;&#27743;&#65292;&#21688;&#20250;&#30058;&#31162;&#12290;

...

&#24218;&#21320;&#65292;&#20803;&#24180;&#12290;&#27721;&#20803;&#40718;&#20845;&#24180;&#65288;*&#20844;&#20803;&#21069;&#19968;&#19968;&#19968;&#24180;*)

&#65297;&#20908;&#65292;&#27721;&#26472;&#20166;&#31934;&#20853;&#20061;&#21315;&#65292;&#20808;&#38519;&#23547;&#38527;&#65292;&#30772;&#30707;&#38376;&#65288;&#22025;&#31215;&#30707;&#20110;&#27743;&#65292;&#26352;&#30707;&#38376;&#65289;&#65292;&#24471;&#25105;&#31903;&#33337;&#65292;&#22240;&#25512;&#20854;&#33337;&#65292;&#20197;&#25968;&#19975;&#20154;&#24453;&#20239;&#27874;&#23558;&#20891;&#36335;&#21338;&#24503;&#12290;&#21338;&#24503;&#26352;&#65306;&#8220;&#22240;&#36947;&#36828;&#21518;&#26399;&#19982;&#27004;&#33337;&#20250;&#33267;&#30058;&#31162;&#12290;&#8221;&#26102;&#26377;&#21315;&#20313;&#20154;&#65292;&#36930;&#20465;&#36827;&#65292;&#26472;&#20166;&#21069;&#33267;&#30058;&#31162;&#12290;&#29579;&#21450;&#22025;&#30342;&#23432;&#12290;&#26472;&#20166;&#33258;&#25321;&#20415;&#65292;&#23621;&#19996;&#21335;&#38754;&#65292;&#36335;&#21338;&#24503;&#23621;&#35199;&#21271;&#38754;&#12290;&#20250;&#26286;&#65292;&#20166;&#25915;&#36133;&#20043;&#65292;&#32437;&#28779;&#28903;&#22478;&#12290;&#21338;&#24503;&#19981;&#30693;&#20853;&#22810;&#23569;&#65292;&#20035;&#20026;&#33829;&#65292;&#36963;&#20351;&#25307;&#38477;&#32773;&#65292;&#36176;&#20197;&#21360;&#32502;&#65292;&#22797;&#32437;&#20196;&#30456;&#25307;&#12290;&#27004;&#33337;&#23558;&#20891;&#26472;&#20166;&#21147;&#25915;&#65292;&#21453;&#39537;&#20837;&#36335;&#21338;&#24503;&#33829;&#20891;&#20013;&#12290;&#40654;&#65288;&#27604;&#20063;&#65289;&#26086;&#65292;&#22478;&#20013;&#30342;&#38477;&#12290;&#29579;&#21450;&#22025;&#19982;&#25968;&#30334;&#20154;&#22812;&#36208;&#20837;&#28023;&#12290;&#21338;&#24503;&#21448;&#38382;&#38477;&#32773;&#30693;&#22025;&#25152;&#22312;&#65292;&#36963;&#20154;&#36861;&#20043;&#12290;&#26657;&#23561;&#21496;&#39532;&#33487;&#24344;&#24471;&#29579;&#65292;&#36234;&#37070;&#37117;&#31293;&#65288;&#19968;&#20271;&#23385;&#37117;&#65289;&#24471;&#22025;&#12290;&#26102;&#65292;&#19979;&#28625;&#12289;&#25096;&#33337;&#23558;&#20891;&#20853;&#21450;&#39536;&#20041;&#20399;&#25152;&#21457;&#22812;&#37070;&#20853;&#26410;&#19979;&#65292;&#32780;*&#25105;&#36234;&#24050;&#20026;&#36335;&#21338;&#24503;&#12289;&#26472;&#20166;&#25152;&#24179;&#30691;*&#65288;&#26102;&#65292;&#25105;&#36234;&#20196;&#19977;&#20351;&#32773;&#29301;&#29275;&#19977;&#30334;&#22836;&#65292;&#25658;&#37202;&#19968;&#21315;&#38047;&#65292;&#25345;&#20132;&#36286;&#12289;&#20061;&#30495;&#12289;&#26085;&#21335;&#19977;&#37089;&#25143;&#31821;&#36814;&#38477;&#12290;&#36335;&#21338;&#24503;&#22240;&#25308;&#19977;&#20351;&#32773;&#20026;&#19977;&#37089;&#22826;&#23432;&#65292;&#27835;&#27665;&#22914;&#25925;&#65289;&#12290;

Note that I highlighted the year this happened: since 111BC Vietnam (north Vietnam) became part of Han (West Han), which you call first Chinese domination.

I don't mind if you call this CPC propaganda , but I read it from *YOUR history book* called &#12298;&#22823;&#36234;&#21490;&#35760;&#20840;&#20070;&#12299; &#12298;&#22823;&#36234;&#21490;&#35760;&#20840;&#20070;&#12299; online reading 

_So it is you who have to read YOUR HISTORY!_ 

It is relevant to YOU, not much to me.

Oh, I'm sorry, are you capable of reading your history? 

BTW, I love your historian's writing, and attitude, very much. &#27835;&#27665;&#22914;&#25925; means _*business as usual*_.


----------



## Soryu

gpit said:


> This is my study of *your history* how first Chinese domination of Vietnam occurred after Qin when China was broke up and Han (west Han) reunified China and then annexed Vietnam.
> 
> As sumptuous Vietnamese killed all Han diplomats then killed Han soldiers and cheating to Han emperor, but Han &#20239;&#27874;&#23558;&#20891;&#36335;&#21338;&#24503; made Vietnam (today&#8217;s north Vietnam) China&#8217;s province :
> 
> &#21525;&#22025;&#36930;&#19979;&#20196;&#22269;&#20013;&#26352;&#65306;&#8220;&#29579;&#24180;&#23569;&#12290;&#22826;&#21518;&#65292;&#26412;&#27721;&#20154;&#20063;&#12290;&#21448;&#19982;&#27721;&#20351;&#32773;&#20081;&#65292;&#19987;&#27442;&#20869;&#38468;&#65292;&#23613;&#25345;&#20808;&#29579;&#23453;&#22120;&#20837;&#29486;&#20110;&#27721;&#65292;&#20197;&#33258;&#23194;&#65292;&#22810;&#20174;&#20154;&#65288;&#20035;&#30456;&#20174;&#20043;&#20154;&#20063;&#65289;&#65292;&#34892;&#33267;&#38271;&#23433;&#65292;&#34383;&#21334;&#20197;&#20026;&#31461;&#20166;&#65292;&#33258;&#21462;&#19968;&#26102;&#20043;&#21033;&#65292;&#26080;&#39038;&#36213;&#27663;&#31038;&#31287;&#65292;&#20026;&#19975;&#19990;&#35745;&#34385;&#20043;&#24847;&#12290;&#8221;&#20035;&#19982;&#20854;&#24351;&#23558;&#21330;&#25915;&#29579;&#65292;&#36930;&#24337;&#29579;&#19982;&#22826;&#21518;&#65292;&#23613;&#26432;&#27721;&#20351;&#32773;&#65292;&#36963;&#20154;&#21578;&#33485;&#26791;&#31206;&#29579;&#21450;&#35832;&#37089;&#37009;&#65292;&#31435;&#26126;&#29579;&#38271;&#23376;&#26415;&#38451;&#20399;&#24314;&#24503;&#20026;&#29579;&#12290;&#29579;&#24050;&#36935;&#23475;&#65292;&#35877;&#26352;&#21696;&#29579;&#12290;
> 
> 
> &#26102;&#65292;&#20908;&#21313;&#19968;&#26376;&#65292;&#23472;&#30456;&#21525;&#22025;&#26082;&#31435;&#29579;&#65292;&#32780;&#38889;&#21315;&#31179;&#20853;&#20837;&#22659;&#65292;&#30772;&#25968;&#23567;&#37009;&#12290;&#22025;&#20035;&#24320;&#30452;&#36947;&#32473;&#39135;&#65292;&#26410;&#33267;&#30058;&#31162;&#22235;&#21313;&#37324;&#65292;&#20986;&#20853;&#20987;&#21315;&#31179;&#31561;&#28781;&#20043;&#12290;&#20351;&#20154;&#20989;&#23553;&#27721;&#20351;&#33410;&#32622;&#22622;&#19978;&#65288;&#21363;&#22823;&#24254;&#23725;&#21517;&#65289;&#12290;&#22909;&#20026;&#35881;&#36766;&#65288;&#27450;&#35784;&#20043;&#35821;&#20063;&#65289;&#65292;&#20197;&#35874;&#32618;&#65292;&#21457;&#20853;&#23432;&#35201;&#23475;&#22788;&#12290;&#27721;&#24093;&#38395;&#20043;&#65292;&#36963;&#20239;&#27874;&#23558;&#20891;&#36335;&#21338;&#24503;&#20986;&#26690;&#38451;&#65292;&#27004;&#33337;&#23558;&#20891;&#26472;&#20166;&#20986;&#35947;&#31456;&#65292;&#25096;&#33337;&#23558;&#20891;&#20005;&#65288;&#21517;&#20005;&#65292;&#21490;&#22833;&#20854;&#22995;&#65289;&#20986;&#38646;&#38517;&#65292;&#19979;&#28625;&#23558;&#20891;&#30002;&#65288;&#21517;&#30002;&#65292;&#21490;&#22833;&#20854;&#22995;&#65289;&#19979;&#33485;&#26791;&#65292;&#39536;&#20041;&#20399;&#36149;&#65288;&#21517;&#36149;&#65292;&#21490;&#22833;&#20854;&#22995;&#65289;&#21457;&#22812;&#37070;&#20853;&#65292;&#19979;&#29250;&#29249;&#27743;&#65292;&#21688;&#20250;&#30058;&#31162;&#12290;
> 
> ...
> 
> &#24218;&#21320;&#65292;&#20803;&#24180;&#12290;&#27721;&#20803;&#40718;&#20845;&#24180;&#65288;*&#20844;&#20803;&#21069;&#19968;&#19968;&#19968;&#24180;*)
> 
> &#65297;&#20908;&#65292;&#27721;&#26472;&#20166;&#31934;&#20853;&#20061;&#21315;&#65292;&#20808;&#38519;&#23547;&#38527;&#65292;&#30772;&#30707;&#38376;&#65288;&#22025;&#31215;&#30707;&#20110;&#27743;&#65292;&#26352;&#30707;&#38376;&#65289;&#65292;&#24471;&#25105;&#31903;&#33337;&#65292;&#22240;&#25512;&#20854;&#33337;&#65292;&#20197;&#25968;&#19975;&#20154;&#24453;&#20239;&#27874;&#23558;&#20891;&#36335;&#21338;&#24503;&#12290;&#21338;&#24503;&#26352;&#65306;&#8220;&#22240;&#36947;&#36828;&#21518;&#26399;&#19982;&#27004;&#33337;&#20250;&#33267;&#30058;&#31162;&#12290;&#8221;&#26102;&#26377;&#21315;&#20313;&#20154;&#65292;&#36930;&#20465;&#36827;&#65292;&#26472;&#20166;&#21069;&#33267;&#30058;&#31162;&#12290;&#29579;&#21450;&#22025;&#30342;&#23432;&#12290;&#26472;&#20166;&#33258;&#25321;&#20415;&#65292;&#23621;&#19996;&#21335;&#38754;&#65292;&#36335;&#21338;&#24503;&#23621;&#35199;&#21271;&#38754;&#12290;&#20250;&#26286;&#65292;&#20166;&#25915;&#36133;&#20043;&#65292;&#32437;&#28779;&#28903;&#22478;&#12290;&#21338;&#24503;&#19981;&#30693;&#20853;&#22810;&#23569;&#65292;&#20035;&#20026;&#33829;&#65292;&#36963;&#20351;&#25307;&#38477;&#32773;&#65292;&#36176;&#20197;&#21360;&#32502;&#65292;&#22797;&#32437;&#20196;&#30456;&#25307;&#12290;&#27004;&#33337;&#23558;&#20891;&#26472;&#20166;&#21147;&#25915;&#65292;&#21453;&#39537;&#20837;&#36335;&#21338;&#24503;&#33829;&#20891;&#20013;&#12290;&#40654;&#65288;&#27604;&#20063;&#65289;&#26086;&#65292;&#22478;&#20013;&#30342;&#38477;&#12290;&#29579;&#21450;&#22025;&#19982;&#25968;&#30334;&#20154;&#22812;&#36208;&#20837;&#28023;&#12290;&#21338;&#24503;&#21448;&#38382;&#38477;&#32773;&#30693;&#22025;&#25152;&#22312;&#65292;&#36963;&#20154;&#36861;&#20043;&#12290;&#26657;&#23561;&#21496;&#39532;&#33487;&#24344;&#24471;&#29579;&#65292;&#36234;&#37070;&#37117;&#31293;&#65288;&#19968;&#20271;&#23385;&#37117;&#65289;&#24471;&#22025;&#12290;&#26102;&#65292;&#19979;&#28625;&#12289;&#25096;&#33337;&#23558;&#20891;&#20853;&#21450;&#39536;&#20041;&#20399;&#25152;&#21457;&#22812;&#37070;&#20853;&#26410;&#19979;&#65292;&#32780;*&#25105;&#36234;&#24050;&#20026;&#36335;&#21338;&#24503;&#12289;&#26472;&#20166;&#25152;&#24179;&#30691;*&#65288;&#26102;&#65292;&#25105;&#36234;&#20196;&#19977;&#20351;&#32773;&#29301;&#29275;&#19977;&#30334;&#22836;&#65292;&#25658;&#37202;&#19968;&#21315;&#38047;&#65292;&#25345;&#20132;&#36286;&#12289;&#20061;&#30495;&#12289;&#26085;&#21335;&#19977;&#37089;&#25143;&#31821;&#36814;&#38477;&#12290;&#36335;&#21338;&#24503;&#22240;&#25308;&#19977;&#20351;&#32773;&#20026;&#19977;&#37089;&#22826;&#23432;&#65292;&#27835;&#27665;&#22914;&#25925;&#65289;&#12290;
> 
> Note that I highlighted the year this happened: since 111BC Vietnam (north Vietnam) became part of Han (West Han), which you call first Chinese domination.
> 
> I don't mind if you call this CPC propaganda , but I read it from *YOUR history book* called &#12298;&#22823;&#36234;&#21490;&#35760;&#20840;&#20070;&#12299;
> 
> _So it is you who have to read YOUR HISTORY!_
> 
> It is relevant to YOU, not much to me.
> 
> Oh, I'm sorry, are you capable of reading your history?
> 
> BTW, I love your historian's writing, and attitude, very much. &#27835;&#27665;&#22914;&#25925; means _*business as usual*_.


You should "study hard" for how you post on english forum! 
You should understand what you said it in early! 
You think you know and others don't know!? 
Sometime you guys say it like you know about others and others don't know about you. You feel superior about that, right!? How poor....!



> China broke up several times in the history. What's big deal?
> 
> Much to your horror, you may not have the history knowledge that every time China broke up, it reunified with bigger territory.
> 
> And what is relevant to your Viets is that many times China reunified, Vietnam became a province of China.
> 
> The oldest being when Qin dynasty broke up and Han unified China, Vietnam became China's province (under first Chinese domination in 111 BC, as your history called it).
> 
> *Whereas the 4th Chinese domination of Vietnam (again as you call it), this is when Ming Dynasty chased out Yuan after China broke up and Vietnam thought it was the time to make trouble, and it ended up being China&#8217;s province.*
> 
> Often, when Vietnam became part of China, its civilization got an unprecedented boost. Of course, it is not to deny that there were many instances that Viets were suppressed by their rulers, just as there were more instances that ordinary Chinese were suppressed by their rulers.


Where're your proof!?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Rechoice

gpit said:


> This is my study of *your history* how first Chinese domination of Vietnam occurred after Qin when China was broke up and Han (west Han) reunified China and then annexed Vietnam.
> 
> As sumptuous Vietnamese killed all Han diplomats then killed Han soldiers and cheating to Han emperor, but Han &#20239;&#27874;&#23558;&#20891;&#36335;&#21338;&#24503; made Vietnam (todays north Vietnam) Chinas province :
> 
> &#21525;&#22025;&#36930;&#19979;&#20196;&#22269;&#20013;&#26352;&#65306;&#29579;&#24180;&#23569;&#12290;&#22826;&#21518;&#65292;&#26412;&#27721;&#20154;&#20063;&#12290;&#21448;&#19982;&#27721;&#20351;&#32773;&#20081;&#65292;&#19987;&#27442;&#20869;&#38468;&#65292;&#23613;&#25345;&#20808;&#29579;&#23453;&#22120;&#20837;&#29486;&#20110;&#27721;&#65292;&#20197;&#33258;&#23194;&#65292;&#22810;&#20174;&#20154;&#65288;&#20035;&#30456;&#20174;&#20043;&#20154;&#20063;&#65289;&#65292;&#34892;&#33267;&#38271;&#23433;&#65292;&#34383;&#21334;&#20197;&#20026;&#31461;&#20166;&#65292;&#33258;&#21462;&#19968;&#26102;&#20043;&#21033;&#65292;&#26080;&#39038;&#36213;&#27663;&#31038;&#31287;&#65292;&#20026;&#19975;&#19990;&#35745;&#34385;&#20043;&#24847;&#12290;&#20035;&#19982;&#20854;&#24351;&#23558;&#21330;&#25915;&#29579;&#65292;&#36930;&#24337;&#29579;&#19982;&#22826;&#21518;&#65292;&#23613;&#26432;&#27721;&#20351;&#32773;&#65292;&#36963;&#20154;&#21578;&#33485;&#26791;&#31206;&#29579;&#21450;&#35832;&#37089;&#37009;&#65292;&#31435;&#26126;&#29579;&#38271;&#23376;&#26415;&#38451;&#20399;&#24314;&#24503;&#20026;&#29579;&#12290;&#29579;&#24050;&#36935;&#23475;&#65292;&#35877;&#26352;&#21696;&#29579;&#12290;
> 
> 
> &#26102;&#65292;&#20908;&#21313;&#19968;&#26376;&#65292;&#23472;&#30456;&#21525;&#22025;&#26082;&#31435;&#29579;&#65292;&#32780;&#38889;&#21315;&#31179;&#20853;&#20837;&#22659;&#65292;&#30772;&#25968;&#23567;&#37009;&#12290;&#22025;&#20035;&#24320;&#30452;&#36947;&#32473;&#39135;&#65292;&#26410;&#33267;&#30058;&#31162;&#22235;&#21313;&#37324;&#65292;&#20986;&#20853;&#20987;&#21315;&#31179;&#31561;&#28781;&#20043;&#12290;&#20351;&#20154;&#20989;&#23553;&#27721;&#20351;&#33410;&#32622;&#22622;&#19978;&#65288;&#21363;&#22823;&#24254;&#23725;&#21517;&#65289;&#12290;&#22909;&#20026;&#35881;&#36766;&#65288;&#27450;&#35784;&#20043;&#35821;&#20063;&#65289;&#65292;&#20197;&#35874;&#32618;&#65292;&#21457;&#20853;&#23432;&#35201;&#23475;&#22788;&#12290;&#27721;&#24093;&#38395;&#20043;&#65292;&#36963;&#20239;&#27874;&#23558;&#20891;&#36335;&#21338;&#24503;&#20986;&#26690;&#38451;&#65292;&#27004;&#33337;&#23558;&#20891;&#26472;&#20166;&#20986;&#35947;&#31456;&#65292;&#25096;&#33337;&#23558;&#20891;&#20005;&#65288;&#21517;&#20005;&#65292;&#21490;&#22833;&#20854;&#22995;&#65289;&#20986;&#38646;&#38517;&#65292;&#19979;&#28625;&#23558;&#20891;&#30002;&#65288;&#21517;&#30002;&#65292;&#21490;&#22833;&#20854;&#22995;&#65289;&#19979;&#33485;&#26791;&#65292;&#39536;&#20041;&#20399;&#36149;&#65288;&#21517;&#36149;&#65292;&#21490;&#22833;&#20854;&#22995;&#65289;&#21457;&#22812;&#37070;&#20853;&#65292;&#19979;&#29250;&#29249;&#27743;&#65292;&#21688;&#20250;&#30058;&#31162;&#12290;
> 
> ...
> 
> &#24218;&#21320;&#65292;&#20803;&#24180;&#12290;&#27721;&#20803;&#40718;&#20845;&#24180;&#65288;*&#20844;&#20803;&#21069;&#19968;&#19968;&#19968;&#24180;*)
> 
> &#65297;&#20908;&#65292;&#27721;&#26472;&#20166;&#31934;&#20853;&#20061;&#21315;&#65292;&#20808;&#38519;&#23547;&#38527;&#65292;&#30772;&#30707;&#38376;&#65288;&#22025;&#31215;&#30707;&#20110;&#27743;&#65292;&#26352;&#30707;&#38376;&#65289;&#65292;&#24471;&#25105;&#31903;&#33337;&#65292;&#22240;&#25512;&#20854;&#33337;&#65292;&#20197;&#25968;&#19975;&#20154;&#24453;&#20239;&#27874;&#23558;&#20891;&#36335;&#21338;&#24503;&#12290;&#21338;&#24503;&#26352;&#65306;&#22240;&#36947;&#36828;&#21518;&#26399;&#19982;&#27004;&#33337;&#20250;&#33267;&#30058;&#31162;&#12290;&#26102;&#26377;&#21315;&#20313;&#20154;&#65292;&#36930;&#20465;&#36827;&#65292;&#26472;&#20166;&#21069;&#33267;&#30058;&#31162;&#12290;&#29579;&#21450;&#22025;&#30342;&#23432;&#12290;&#26472;&#20166;&#33258;&#25321;&#20415;&#65292;&#23621;&#19996;&#21335;&#38754;&#65292;&#36335;&#21338;&#24503;&#23621;&#35199;&#21271;&#38754;&#12290;&#20250;&#26286;&#65292;&#20166;&#25915;&#36133;&#20043;&#65292;&#32437;&#28779;&#28903;&#22478;&#12290;&#21338;&#24503;&#19981;&#30693;&#20853;&#22810;&#23569;&#65292;&#20035;&#20026;&#33829;&#65292;&#36963;&#20351;&#25307;&#38477;&#32773;&#65292;&#36176;&#20197;&#21360;&#32502;&#65292;&#22797;&#32437;&#20196;&#30456;&#25307;&#12290;&#27004;&#33337;&#23558;&#20891;&#26472;&#20166;&#21147;&#25915;&#65292;&#21453;&#39537;&#20837;&#36335;&#21338;&#24503;&#33829;&#20891;&#20013;&#12290;&#40654;&#65288;&#27604;&#20063;&#65289;&#26086;&#65292;&#22478;&#20013;&#30342;&#38477;&#12290;&#29579;&#21450;&#22025;&#19982;&#25968;&#30334;&#20154;&#22812;&#36208;&#20837;&#28023;&#12290;&#21338;&#24503;&#21448;&#38382;&#38477;&#32773;&#30693;&#22025;&#25152;&#22312;&#65292;&#36963;&#20154;&#36861;&#20043;&#12290;&#26657;&#23561;&#21496;&#39532;&#33487;&#24344;&#24471;&#29579;&#65292;&#36234;&#37070;&#37117;&#31293;&#65288;&#19968;&#20271;&#23385;&#37117;&#65289;&#24471;&#22025;&#12290;&#26102;&#65292;&#19979;&#28625;&#12289;&#25096;&#33337;&#23558;&#20891;&#20853;&#21450;&#39536;&#20041;&#20399;&#25152;&#21457;&#22812;&#37070;&#20853;&#26410;&#19979;&#65292;&#32780;*&#25105;&#36234;&#24050;&#20026;&#36335;&#21338;&#24503;&#12289;&#26472;&#20166;&#25152;&#24179;&#30691;*&#65288;&#26102;&#65292;&#25105;&#36234;&#20196;&#19977;&#20351;&#32773;&#29301;&#29275;&#19977;&#30334;&#22836;&#65292;&#25658;&#37202;&#19968;&#21315;&#38047;&#65292;&#25345;&#20132;&#36286;&#12289;&#20061;&#30495;&#12289;&#26085;&#21335;&#19977;&#37089;&#25143;&#31821;&#36814;&#38477;&#12290;&#36335;&#21338;&#24503;&#22240;&#25308;&#19977;&#20351;&#32773;&#20026;&#19977;&#37089;&#22826;&#23432;&#65292;&#27835;&#27665;&#22914;&#25925;&#65289;&#12290;
> 
> Note that I highlighted the year this happened: since 111BC Vietnam (north Vietnam) became part of Han (West Han), which you call first Chinese domination.
> 
> I don't mind if you call this CPC propaganda , but I read it from *YOUR history book* called &#12298;&#22823;&#36234;&#21490;&#35760;&#20840;&#20070;&#12299; &#12298;&#22823;&#36234;&#21490;&#35760;&#20840;&#20070;&#12299; online reading
> 
> _So it is you who have to read YOUR HISTORY!_
> 
> It is relevant to YOU, not much to me.
> 
> Oh, I'm sorry, are you capable of reading your history?
> 
> BTW, I love your historian's writing, and attitude, very much. &#27835;&#27665;&#22914;&#25925; means _*business as usual*_.



We did it with all aggressors invaded in to Vietnam in the past. Don't forget that China was province of Mongolian, Manchus and Japan recently.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## gpit

Rechoice said:


> We did it with all aggressors invaded in to Vietnam in the past. Don't forget that China was province of Mongolian, Manchus and Japan recently.



China was a province of Mongols, or Japan? What was the name of the province? I know a China's province was called An Nam.  The name means peaceful Vietnam, because you were perceived perhaps as unpeaceful and trouble making. That is perhaps why a Vietnamese thinks the friendship between Vietnam and China is unbelievable even today http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...ietnam-welcomes-cpc-military-delegations.html, exactly as a trouble-maker or trouble-lover would behave. 

LOL! I expect nothing but laughing stocks from a history imbecile like you! 

The Mongolians said China should be our country and Chinese culture and tradition should be our culture and tradition, and please let us enjoy your goodies by us using force against you.

If you know the Chinese, read how the Mongolians said when they declare the establishment of Yuan Dynasty å¿½å¿&#8230;ç&#402;&#710; - ç¶*å&#376;ºç&#8482;¾ç§&#8216;ï¼&#338;è&#8225;ªç&#8221;±ç&#353;&#8222;ç&#8482;¾ç§&#8216;å&#8230;¨æ&#8250;¸ . Otherwise read <On China> by Dr. Henry Kissinger, former US Secretary of State, his description of that history.

What from Vietnam was the similar, just read your history books like &#12298;&#22823;&#36234;&#21490;&#35760;&#20840;&#20070;&#12299;. You admired Chinese culture and used Chinese standard, such as &#26149;&#31179;&#22823;&#20041; to measure yourself. 

Read your own book to figure out what you are.


----------



## Rechoice

gpit said:


> China was a province of Mongols, or Japan? What was the name of the province? I know a China's province was called An Nam.  The name means peaceful Vietnam, because you were perceived perhaps as unpeaceful and trouble making. That is perhaps why a Vietnamese thinks the friendship between Vietnam and China is unbelievable even today http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...ietnam-welcomes-cpc-military-delegations.html, exactly as a trouble-maker or trouble-lover would behave.
> 
> LOL! I expect nothing but laughing stocks from a history imbecile like you!
> 
> The Mongolians said China should be our country and Chinese culture and tradition should be our culture and tradition, and please let us enjoy your goodies by us using force against you.
> 
> If you know the Chinese, read how the Mongolians said when they declare the establishment of Yuan Dynasty å¿½å¿&#8230;ç&#402;&#710; - ç¶*å&#376;ºç&#8482;¾ç§&#8216;ï¼&#338;è&#8225;ªç&#8221;±ç&#353;&#8222;ç&#8482;¾ç§&#8216;å&#8230;¨æ&#8250;¸ . Otherwise read <On China> by Dr. Henry Kissinger, former US Secretary of State, his description of that history.
> 
> What from Vietnam was the similar, just read your history books like &#12298;&#22823;&#36234;&#21490;&#35760;&#20840;&#20070;&#12299;. You admired Chinese culture and used Chinese standard, such as &#26149;&#31179;&#22823;&#20041; to measure yourself.
> 
> Read your own book to figure out what you are.



It was similiar that in the past China and Vietnam suffered ivasion of foreigners. vietnam consisdered invaders were enemy, we tried to wiped them out. You Chinese accepted they are your ruler.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Soryu

gpit said:


> China was a province of Mongols, or Japan? What was the name of the province? I know a China's province was called An Nam.  The name means peaceful Vietnam, because you were perceived perhaps as unpeaceful and trouble making. That is perhaps why a Vietnamese thinks the friendship between Vietnam and China is unbelievable even today , exactly as a trouble-maker or trouble-lover would behave.
> 
> LOL! I expect nothing but laughing stocks from a history imbecile like you!
> 
> The Mongolians said China should be our country and Chinese culture and tradition should be our culture and tradition, and please let us enjoy your goodies by us using force against you.
> 
> If you know the Chinese, read how the Mongolians said when they declare the establishment of Yuan Dynasty . Otherwise read <On China> by Dr. Henry Kissinger, former US Secretary of State, his description of that history.
> 
> What from Vietnam was the similar, just read your history books like &#12298;&#22823;&#36234;&#21490;&#35760;&#20840;&#20070;&#12299;. You admired Chinese culture and used Chinese standard, such as &#26149;&#31179;&#22823;&#20041; to measure yourself.
> 
> Read your own book to figure out what you are.



I think you are american with Chinese origin so I say this to you: If you want say about Vietnamese history to Vietnamese, you should read about that with english course (neutral if you can find that). 
You say about history conflict between two country, but you used document on China site to make me believe on that, what happen with your thought!? China claim almost everything of others country belong to her, and we should believe on things china said !??
Show me some proof of things you said above!
If you don't care about those we believe in it or not, so what's your point when you post it at here!???

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Soryu

gpit said:


> China was a province of Mongols, or Japan? What was the name of the province? I know a China's province was called An Nam.  The name means peaceful Vietnam, because you were perceived perhaps as unpeaceful and trouble making. That is perhaps why a Vietnamese thinks the friendship between Vietnam and China is unbelievable even today , exactly as a trouble-maker or trouble-lover would behave.
> 
> LOL! I expect nothing but laughing stocks from a history imbecile like you!
> 
> The Mongolians said China should be our country and Chinese culture and tradition should be our culture and tradition, and please let us enjoy your goodies by us using force against you.
> 
> If you know the Chinese, read how the Mongolians said when they declare the establishment of Yuan Dynasty . Otherwise read <On China> by Dr. Henry Kissinger, former US Secretary of State, his description of that history.
> 
> What from Vietnam was the similar, just read your history books like &#12298;&#22823;&#36234;&#21490;&#35760;&#20840;&#20070;&#12299;. You admired Chinese culture and used Chinese standard, such as &#26149;&#31179;&#22823;&#20041; to measure yourself.
> 
> Read your own book to figure out what you are.



I think you are american with Chinese origin so I say this to you: If you want say about Vietnamese history to Vietnamese, you should read about that with english course (neutral if you can find that). 

You say about history conflict between two country, but you used document on China site to make me believe on that, what happen with your thought!? China claim almost everything of others country belong to her, and we should believe on things china said !??
Show me some proof of things you said above!

If you don't care about those we believe in it or not, so what's your point when you post it at here!???

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## gpit

Rechoice said:


> It was similiar that in the past China and Vietnam suffered ivasion of foreigners. vietnam consisdered invaders were enemy, we tried to wiped them out. You Chinese accepted they are your ruler.



China has 56 races. One of the minorities became the ruler of China, China is still Chinese.

To add to your knowledge base, Mongolians in China have 5 million in population. In Mongol, it has only 1 million. Which one is more Mongolian?

Man? The Manchurian are standard Chinese. Do a pitiful you know why the official Chinese is called Manderine?

You wipe them out that is why you are backward in cultural development. Just like the USA, if it were to wipe out Irish, German, Spanish,... only let British stay, that America would be as a sh!thole as your Vietnam.

You are very myopic, and pitifully narrow minded. That is precisely your politics is a copy of China's but with much lower efficiency, and your economy is in such abysmal (5% this year right? ).




Soryu said:


> I think you are american with Chinese origin so I say this to you: If you want say about Vietnamese history to Vietnamese, you should read about that with english course (neutral if you can find that).
> You say about history conflict between two country, but you used document on China site to make me believe on that, what happen with your thought!? China claim almost everything of others country belong to her, and we should believe on things china said !??
> Show me some proof of things you said above!
> If you don't care about those we believe in it or not, so what's your point when you post it at here!???




Your logic is ridiculous, to say the least.

In a free world like USA or China, we have access to original documents, without subject to any manipulation (by English or other languages). 

*Vietnam history is documented overwhelmingly in Chinese*, why should I read manipulated English one? Dude, if there are authenticate history books (like&#12298;&#23433;&#21335;&#24535;&#30053;&#12299;&#12289;&#12298;&#22823;&#36234;&#21490;&#35760;&#20840;&#20070;&#12299;&#12289;&#12298;&#22823;&#36234;&#21490;&#30053;&#12299;&#12289;&#12298;&#36234;&#21490;&#36890;&#37492;&#32434;&#30446;&#12299;&#12289;&#12298;&#21382;&#26397;&#23466;&#31456;&#31867;&#24535;&#12299;&#12289;&#12298;&#22823;&#21335;&#23454;&#24405, why do anyone need secondhand scr@p? I am intending to read all of them, if there is a chance. That is why I have already collected those names. And I know which parts of the books were likely modified by the old Chinese imperialists. And I believe Mao Ze Dong (or Zhou Enlai) personally apologized to Viet commi about any atrocities his ancestors may committed towards Vietnamese. And the fact is, lots of Vietnamese were also involved in committing the same atrocities or to help the Chinese commit them.

In addition, in thousands of years, there were no Vietnamese as a nation, as Vietnamese were part of Chinese. 

Can you tell me what&#8217;s wrong with the document on Chinese site? Can you then tell me any discrepancy in terms of the contents whether it is from that site vs any other site (for instance your Dai Viet site, if any?) I can also point you to another Chinese site that contains the same document that is a copy from Japanese site. I only see the contents are the same. That is all my concern.

Back to us. This is what that differentiates us: I love the knowledge whereas you love emotion with not much rationality. A typical example is, due to your crooked thinking, *you would probably think download the book from other site would make your Vietnam history different from download it from a Chinese site.* What about buy the book from google? &#22823;&#36234;&#21490;&#35352;&#20840;&#26360; - &#21555;&#22763;&#36899; - Google Books
? Or read from wiki? https://zh.wikisource.org/zh/大越史記全書/卷首


----------



## ManilaBoy45

Dispute Flares Over Energy in South China Sea
By JANE PERLEZ
Published: December 4, 2012 

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/05/w...south-china-sea.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&_r=0

BEIJING  China and two of its neighbors, Vietnam and India, were locked in a new dispute on Tuesday over energy exploration in the South China Sea, a signal that Beijing plans to continue its hard line in the increasingly contentious waterway.


----------



## Rechoice

gpit said:


> China has 56 races. One of the minorities became the ruler of China, China is still Chinese.
> 
> To add to your knowledge base, Mongolians in China have 5 million in population. In Mongol, it has only 1 million. Which one is more Mongolian?
> 
> Man? The Manchurian are standard Chinese. Do a pitiful you know why the official Chinese is called Manderine?
> 
> You wipe them out that is why you are backward in cultural development. Just like the USA, if it were to wipe out Irish, German, Spanish,... only let British stay, that America would be as a sh!thole as your Vietnam.
> 
> You are very myopic, and pitifully narrow minded. That is precisely your politics is a copy of China's but with much lower efficiency, and your economy is in such abysmal (5% this year right? ).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your logic is ridiculous, to say the least.
> 
> In a free world like USA or China, we have access to original documents, without subject to any manipulation (by English or other languages).
> 
> *Vietnam history is documented overwhelmingly in Chinese*, why should I read manipulated English one? Dude, if there are authenticate history books (like&#12298;&#23433;&#21335;&#24535;&#30053;&#12299;&#12289;&#12298;&#22823;&#36234;&#21490;&#35760;&#20840;&#20070;&#12299;&#12289;&#12298;&#22823;&#36234;&#21490;&#30053;&#12299;&#12289;&#12298;&#36234;&#21490;&#36890;&#37492;&#32434;&#30446;&#12299;&#12289;&#12298;&#21382;&#26397;&#23466;&#31456;&#31867;&#24535;&#12299;&#12289;&#12298;&#22823;&#21335;&#23454;&#24405, why do anyone need secondhand scr@p? I am intending to read all of them, if there is a chance. That is why I have already collected those names. And I know which parts of the books were likely modified by the old Chinese imperialists. And I believe Mao Ze Dong (or Zhou Enlai) personally apologized to Viet commi about any atrocities his ancestors may committed towards Vietnamese. And the fact is, lots of Vietnamese were also involved in committing the same atrocities or to help the Chinese commit them.
> 
> In addition, in thousands of years, there were no Vietnamese as a nation, as Vietnamese were part of Chinese.
> 
> Can you tell me whats wrong with the document on Chinese site? Can you then tell me any discrepancy in terms of the contents whether it is from that site vs any other site (for instance your Dai Viet site, if any?) I can also point you to another Chinese site that contains the same document that is a copy from Japanese site. I only see the contents are the same. That is all my concern.
> 
> Back to us. This is what that differentiates us: I love the knowledge whereas you love emotion with not much rationality. A typical example is, due to your crooked thinking, *you would probably think download the book from other site would make your Vietnam history different from download it from a Chinese site.* What about buy the book from google? &#22823;&#36234;&#21490;&#35352;&#20840;&#26360; - &#21555;&#22763;&#36899; - Google Books
> ? Or read from wiki? https://zh.wikisource.org/zh/大越史記全書/卷首



My comment on your post about Mandarine and Mongolian, mod deleted it. 
Now is about histories of USA and UK in comparation with Vietnam and China; North Amerika was colony of Britain and gained his independence from United kingdom, but Vietnam *regained* his independence from China. You said you have been reading &#12298;&#22823;&#36234;&#21490;&#35760;&#20840;&#20070;&#12299;, you have to know well that before the time when Chinese (Qin) expended to the southern area if China mainland, Vietnam was existed as independence state mamed: Au Lac and our Emperor was Hung Vuong and late on An Duong Vuong ( &#23433;&#26264;&#29579. Zhiao Da of Nan Yue Guo is backstabbed An Duong Vuong, betrayed Peace Aggreement with Vietnam. it' was difference story.

the feudalism in Asia based on Confucian idea in China and Vietnam was backward and low efficiency. There is reason why China and Vietnam was losers when facing with western capitalists in the last centuries.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

CMS 17 - the build-up continues

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

CMS 110&#65306;

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ahfatzia

*China to rule the seas - unmanned*


n the cold blue waters between China and Japan, a Chinese fishing craft collided with two Japanese coast guard patrol boats near the uninhabited islands in the East China Sea known as the Diaoyu Islands in China and the Senkaku Islands in Japan. Following the collision on September 7, 2010, coastguards boarded the trawler and arrested the Chinese crew and captain. Following the incident, anti-Japanese protests were held in many Chinese cities, Chinese tour groups visiting Japan were recalled, and a decision was made to suspend the export of rare earths to Japan. [1]

The strength of reaction in this seemingly small-scale maritime accident is a symptom of a deeply rooted conflict. The islands
occupy a sensitive position in China-Japan relations - they were first seized by Japan in the Sino-Japanese war of 1894-5, with the annexation of Taiwan and Korea, followed by the invasion of China by Japan in the 1930s. [2]

The conflict continued as the waters were filled with ships again in October 2012, this time naval ships. The Chinese Navy's East Sea Fleet and civilian maritime patrol agencies conducted their annual joint maneuvers simulating a situation where Japanese law enforcement vessels obstruct and interfere with Chinese maritime surveillance and fisheries administration vessels. The simulated scenario included a collision in which the Chinese ships are damaged and personnel are hurt and fall into the water, requiring further support of a frigate, a hospital ship, a tugboat, advanced fighters and helicopters for support, cover and emergency rescue. [3]

Advance in time to just a few short years later: it is 2015, and drones are returning to special unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) bases, crossing disputed national airspace while surveying activity around the respective islands. [4] The searching multispectral sensor scopes the waters for signs of civilian and military activity near the territories. Tensions heighten due to the ever-present, ever-watching, barely seen spots in the sky.

These scenarios give context to China's recently declared intention to deploy marine surveillance drones to track activity around the archipelagos - an action that may set a precedent for dealing with controversial, disputed territories throughout the region. China's use of drones facilitates an old strategy of perception politics that helps enforce its territorial claims over disputed islands. Drones also expand China's regional military power as they induce broad, invasive footprints of surveillance. Additionally, drones reduce the necessity of maintaining diplomatic sensitivity because they are a dehumanizing tool that further distances surveyors and objects of surveillance, the bullet and the target.

China is developing civilian and military varieties of drone technologies as part of a strategy to "accelerate its transition from territorial air defense to both offensive and defense operations, and to increase its capabilities for carrying out reconnaissance... " [5] The PLA Air Force is investing in long-range reconnaissance and armed drones, [6] and at a pace and lack of transparency disturbing to regional and US military interests. In 2010, China revealed nearly 25 different models of drones at the Zhuhai air show - whereas reports indicate that two years earlier China had displayed only a few models. [7]

The expansion of indigenous drone technology results from US intervention in the early 2000s, when the US leaned on Israel to stop exports of the Harpy UAV to China in response to Taiwanese concerns that the nearly 100 drones would threaten the island's security. [8] At this year's Zhuhai air show, the China Aerospace Science & Industry Corp (CASIC) revealed six new drone models (military and civilian), and Aviation Industry Corp of China marketed an armed Wing Loong UAV. [9]

With future estimates of the value of the Chinese drone industry reaching the billions of dollars, [10] China's rapid development of drone technology is coalescing with regional development into a near future of persistent drone use within Asia. [11] One study conducted by the Teal Group Corporation projects that the Asia-Pacific market for drones may exceed US$8.6 billion, with the number of drones near 7,552 over the next decade. [12] While drones require state investment, Southeast Asia is catching up in the race for drone technology.

And the gods of war flash mischievous grins anew - the emerging drone market in China and broader Asia is an early sign that past intermittent tensions in the region may evolve into persistent conflict.

In past flare-ups between China and Japan over the uninhabited island territories, the tension is perpetuated by nationalist activist groups from the respective states provoking action from the opposing militaries. As the earlier narratives indicated, the flare-up occurs, states rekindle power-flexing rhetoric and economic threats, but eventually tensions dwindle to a smolder, with the parties returning to their corners. And the islands remain relatively non-governmental territories. But, when China begins actively deploying drones for constant surveillance over the islands, China will effectively be establishing territorial domination as a persistent military presence that represents a shift to territorial sovereignty.

The final piece of drone-induced power politics is the dehumanizing nature of drones. Drones are a paradigm-shifting weapon that relax the perceived need for multi-perspective dialogue. Drones create social distance by facilitating dehumanization of opposing parties: they reduce the mutual risk of human cost in both surveillance and strike operations.

British Army officer and former drone operator James Jeffrey, who piloted drone operations in Afghanistan, described the dehumanization that drones facilitate:

"It [drones] makes it [attacks] a lot more acceptable, a lot more palatable; it's on a computer screen... within 10 minutes you've forgotten that it happened and you've moved on. You dehumanize the enemy further, which always happens in war, but it takes it to another... degree." [13]

As dehumanization and increasing social distance become ingratiated in the international relations culture - on a regional and global level - the incentive to understand alternative parties' perspectives diminishes rapidly.

Prior incidents of territorial clashes over the East China Sea islands have generally been characterized by face-to-face encounters with the 'opposition', but future drone activity escalates the potential for perpetual war and reduces the quality of security. Conflict actors may long for the peaceful tension of years past when adversaries had to physically engage with the persons that opposed them.

All factors combined, the subtle shift from human engagement to machines in Asia enhances a perception of China's territorial sovereignty in various arenas of regional disputes, which may lead to a path to perpetual conflict.

And, while it is difficult to accurately predict the consequences of evolving drone activity, it is necessary to explore the potential uses and ramifications of drones. Asia's drone development and proposed future drone use are a signal to governments and societies that a brave new world is fast approaching of Platonic perception politics, surveillance and military conflict. *The 'winners' in that world will be those able to adapt the new politics and technology to specific power goals. Today, China looks to be a winner.*

Asia Times Online :: China to rule the seas - unmanned

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

large coast guard ships are built by Damen Shipyard (Holland) and Shipyard Song Thu company (Vietnam) in license.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-.../Subject/3b/bd/da/48/Tau-CSB-8001-2.jpg[/IMG]


----------



## Viet

Yahoo! we will have some more fun 



*Vietnam sets up marine unit to protect fishermen, resources *
Thanh Nien News | Thursday, December 06, 2012 09:30:00































Vietnamese Coast Guard


The Vietnamese government will establish a *Fisheries Management Department *next month to patrol the seas, protect fishermen, and generally enforce the law.

The unit will *start operating from January 25* under the Directorate of Fisheries.

Luu Van Huy, head of the directorate's Inspection and Legislation Department, was quoted by Nguoi Lao Dong newspaper Tuesday as saying the new department would be a &#8220;civilian&#8221; force whose job would include protecting marine resources.

To be assisted by soldiers, they will make sure certain fishing areas are used for the right purposes, in the right seasons, and by licensed fishermen. Its inspectors will check if the fishing nets follow requirements related to knot size, and combat the use of electricity, poison, and explosives for fishing.

They can impose cash penalties on violators and even suspend fishing.

*The unit will represent the Vietnamese government to inspect foreign boats in Vietnamese waters and impose penalties if required, and protect Vietnamese fishermen in foreign waters.*

Dr Tran Cong Truc, former head of a government archives containing sovereignty documents, said the unit would also assist the Coast Guard and Navy in protecting the country&#8217;s sovereignty.

*Chinese aggression *in Vietnam&#8217;s eastern waters has been on the rise recently. Many of their boats have attacked Vietnamese fishermen, including with weapons, and held Vietnamese fishermen and their boats for ransom.

Last July a fleet of *30 fishing vessels from China&#8217;s* island province of Hainan came to fishing grounds in the Truong Sa (Spratly) Islands belonging to Vietnam with the protection of a naval patrol boat.

*The new unit will have well-equipped boats* that can stay for days at sea and operate in winds of up to level 9 or 88 kilometers per hour.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

Gee&#65292;lots of CMS ships&#65306;


----------



## cirr

MSA 01 to visit Australia in May 2013&#65306;











Having been constantly harrased by CMS and CFA ships&#65292;Vietnam and the Philippines are yet to confront MSA and CCG vessels&#12290;


----------



## cirr

&#8220;MSA 22&#8221; launched at WC Shipyard on 07.12.2012&#65306;








http://www.dsti.net/Information/ViewPoint/60295

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## gpit

Rechoice said:


> My comment on your post about Mandarine and Mongolian, mod deleted it.
> Now is about histories of USA and UK in comparation with Vietnam and China; North Amerika was colony of Britain and gained his independence from United kingdom, but Vietnam *regained* his independence from China. You said you have been reading &#12298;&#22823;&#36234;&#21490;&#35760;&#20840;&#20070;&#12299;, you have to know well that before the time when Chinese (Qin) expended to the southern area if China mainland, Vietnam was existed as independence state mamed: Au Lac and our Emperor was Hung Vuong and late on An Duong Vuong ( &#23433;&#26264;&#29579. Zhiao Da of Nan Yue Guo is backstabbed An Duong Vuong, betrayed Peace Aggreement with Vietnam. it' was difference story.
> 
> the feudalism in Asia based on Confucian idea in China and Vietnam was backward and low efficiency. There is reason why China and Vietnam was losers when facing with western capitalists in the last centuries.




I oppose deleting posts unless some grossly abusive languages are employed ...

I don&#8217;t know how and when you can get rid of your crooked thinking, but one sure way is to educate yourself by reading more books from all sides.

China was composed of many independent states, too. So what!

In fact, lots of ancient Vietnamese ran away from Vietnamese brutality and worked for the Chinese, and made their historical achievement with their name in Hall of Fame. Your people &#26446;&#32705;&#20210; is such a person. Quote (&#22823;&#36234;&#21490;&#35352;&#20840;&#26360;/&#22806;&#32000;&#21367;&#20043;&#19968: &#8220;&#31206;&#20341;&#20845;&#22283;&#65292;&#31281;&#30343;&#24093;&#12290;&#26178;&#25105;&#20132;&#36286;&#24904;&#24265;&#20154;&#26446;&#32705;&#20210;&#65292;&#36523;&#38263;&#20108;&#19976;&#19977;&#23610;&#12290;&#23569;&#26178;&#24448;&#37111;&#21543;&#20379;&#21147;&#24441;&#65292;&#28858;&#38263;&#23448;&#25152;&#31518;&#12290;&#36930;&#20837;&#20181;&#31206;&#65292;&#33267;&#21496;&#38583;&#26657;&#23561;&#12290;&#22987;&#30343;&#24471;&#22825;&#19979;&#65292;&#20351;&#23559;&#20853;&#23432;&#33256;&#27950;&#65292;&#32882;&#25391;&#21256;&#22900;&#65292;&#21450;&#32769;&#27512;&#30000;&#37324;&#21330;&#12290;&#22987;&#30343;&#20197;&#28858;&#30064;&#65292;&#37956;&#37509;&#28858;&#20687;&#65292;&#32622;&#21688;&#38525;&#21496;&#39340;&#38272;&#65292;&#33145;&#20013;&#23481;&#25976;&#21313;&#20154;&#65292;&#28659;&#25622;&#21205;&#20043;&#65292;&#21256;&#22900;&#20197;&#28858;&#29983;&#26657;&#23561;&#65292;&#19981;&#25954;&#29359; &#8220;https://zh.wikisource.org/wiki/大越史記全書/外紀卷之一
Briefly: &#26446;&#32705;&#20210; was tall. He was beaten by (Vietnamese) official and ran into Qin and became an official, upto the rank of &#21496;&#38583;&#26657;&#23561;. Qin Emperor made him guard against Huns and scared the Huns till he retired to his farm and died there. Emperor thought it was extraordinary, and made a bronze status of him, with a few dozen people inside, shaking it. Huns though he was still alive, daring not invade. 

While you are allowed to argue, but at least your famous historian &#40654;&#25991;&#20241; agreed that the Chinese Zhao Tuo (&#36249;&#20311was the first who established a country called Vietnam in today&#8217;s sense, implying that before that era, Vietnam were merely composed of stateless tribes. He thus said (quote) &#8220;&#36213;&#27494;&#24093;&#33021;*&#24320;&#25299;&#25105;&#36234;*&#65292;&#32780;&#33258;&#24093;&#20854;&#22269;&#65292;&#19982;&#27721;&#25239;&#34913;&#65292;&#20070;&#31216;&#32769;&#22827;&#65292;*&#20026;&#25105;&#36234;&#20513;&#22987;&#24093;&#29579;&#20043;&#22522;&#19994;*&#65292;&#20854;&#21151;&#21487;&#35859;&#22823;&#30691;&#12290;&#8221;( &#22823;&#36234;&#21490;&#35760;&#20840;&#20070;/&#22806;&#32426;&#21367;&#20043;&#20108;, https://zh.wikisource.org/wiki/大越史記全書/外紀卷之二 ) briefly: Zhao Wu Di (Zhao Tuo) can *establish my Vietnam*, and self-enthrones in the state, balancing against Han Dynasty, *starting the foundations of Vietnam Dynasties for us*, the contribution is extraordinary.

Here we can derive two important conclusions: 1) before Zhao Tuo, Vietnam politically was composed of tribes fighting each other among themselves. None of them could call themselves Vietnam in today&#8217;s sense. A country called Vietnam in today&#8217;s sense was simply not there. 2) the country called Vietnam in today&#8217;s sense, politically and culturally, was established by a Chinese called Zhao Tuo as recognized by your Vietnamese, which could distinguish itself from northern Han Dynasty and defend itself against the northern.

The Chinese mentality seems very different from yours. They never say Mongolians are not ours and Manchurians are foreigners, very much like citizens in USA who never say Mexican or African Americans are not Americans. They consider all other racial components of the country as their same countryman. 

In Vietnam, the Chinese were the major component being suppressed as Vietnam communists took over the power. They want to purge Hoa (Chinese) ethnically because they foolishly believe Vietnam has to be ruled by Vietnamese race, similar to Hitler's idea. This is one of the reasons why your Vietnam today is still a sh!thole of economy.

Even today, in this forum, overwhelmingly larger amount of internet Vietnamese demonstrate their the kinds of thoughts via various posts, such as mocking Mongolian or Manchurian invasion of China.

The deep misunderstanding lies in the difference between Chinese and Vietnamese mentalities shaped by geography and over the millenniums of history : 1) China geographically centers in Asia: people moving around Asia have a larger chance to come to China, whereas Vietnam sits in a corner of Indo-China peninsular, with much less temptation for land traveler which was much affordable in old times. Thus, the Chinese are broader minded than Vietnamese. 2) When the Mongolians and Manchurians invaded China, they did not think Chinese culture was inferior and needed to be wiped out or replaced (like British invasion of India or French/China invasion of Vietnam). Rather, those then semi-foreigners believed China&#8217;s culture was superior to their owns but the Chinese rulers needed to be replaced. And those invaders relentlessly adopted/enjoyed Chinese language/culture/tradition as their own. Unlike India or Vietnam situation, where mostly local languages were replaced or suppressed due to being considered less useful or inferior. For the 2nd aspect, please read Dr. Henry Kissinger&#8217;s book <On China>.

This is how Chinese culture and language has never been interrupted despite of so many invasions in the past, and nearly after every breaking up of the country, China reunified with even bigger territory: those &#8220;barbarians&#8221; loved to be civilized or sinicized.

In your guys pitiful thinking, as if bring up Manchurian flag would shame the Chinese, the fact is no Chinese cares  as in Chinese internet, enormous amount of flags from various reasons can be viewed. Do you know the &#8220;Iron blood 13-star&#8221; flag? Do you know Qing navy dragon flag? (BTW, dragon is a typical sign of Chinese culture, but the Manchurian desperately attempted to claim to inherit  . Pitifully and regrettably, not many Manchurian today can write their own backward writings. ) Do you know Chinese Soviet Central Government flag when Mao Ze Dong proposed those provinces should be independent from China? LOL! More importantly, do you know the history and meanings of those flags? Probably not, as *you boys bring out those flags with a toddler&#8217;s mentality*: pitiful and laughable. 

I think while I respect Vietnamese self-determination (to some destination of either prosperity or destitute), missing out Chinese boat is pretty pitiful and de-sinicization is lamentable as it will, if not handled properly, come with huge collateral damage deep to the root of your country.

And even funnier today: *the friendship between Vietnam and China is considered unbelievable by some your internet Vietnamese!* 

Do your Vietnamese only believe in wars with China? If so, you must be crazy!

BTW, you are not losing to western capitalism, you are losing to your own by the fact that you don't make people live better and only think of war at the expense of their blood. If you keep your foolish ideology while keep people uneducated and poor, and, in your particular case, advocate war against China, you will eventually lose your country as many times happened in your history.


----------



## ahfatzia

*Philippines puts off 4-way South China Sea talks*


MANILA -- *The Philippines said Friday it had put off four-way talks due next week over rival claims to the South China Sea but downplayed suggestions the postponement was because of pressure from Beijing.*

The Philippines, Brunei, Malaysia and Vietnam had been scheduled to meet on Wednesday but China, which wants disputes settled bilaterally, had not been invited.

But Foreign department spokesman Raul Hernandez told reporters: *&#8220;It will not happen this coming Dec. 12 ... because of [/B]scheduling problems. But the parties are working on&#8221; coming up with a new date.

He said he was unaware of any pressure being applied by Beijing to scuttle the Manila meeting.

The meeting of deputy foreign ministers had been part of Philippine efforts to push for a multilateral solution to the disputes.

China claims most of the sea including waters close to the shores of its neighbors.

Taiwan, like China, claims most of the sea, which includes some of the world's most important shipping lanes and is believed to be rich in fossil fuels.

Tensions have increased steadily over the past two years, with the Philippines and Vietnam accusing China of increasingly aggressive diplomatic tactics to stake its claims.

Relations between the Philippines and China have become particularly tense since patrol vessels by both countries engaged in a standoff over the Scarborough Shoal in April.

Philippines puts off 4-way South China Sea talks - The China Post*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

> I oppose deleting posts unless some grossly abusive languages are employed ...
> 
> I don&#8217;t know how and when you can get rid of your crooked thinking, but one sure way is to educate yourself by reading more books from all sides.
> 
> China was composed of many independent states, too. So what!


*Originally Posted by gpit* 

Ancient Vietnam was home to some of the world's earliest civilizations and societies - making them one of the world's first people who practiced agriculture.[2][3] The Red River valley formed a natural geographic and economic unit, bounded to the north and west by mountains and jungles, to the east by the sea and to the south by the Red River Delta. The need to have a single authority to prevent floods of the Red River, to cooperate in constructing hydraulic systems, trade exchange, and to fight invaders, led to the creation of the *first Vietnamese states in 2879 BC.*[4] The first truly influential part of history in Vietnam occurred during the Bronze Age, when the &#272;ông S&#417;n culture dramatically advanced the civilization. Vietnam's peculiar geography made it a difficult country to attack, which is why Vietnam under Hùng V&#432;&#417;ngwas for so long an independent and self-contained state. The Âns and Qins were among the earliest foreign aggressors of Vietnam, but the ancient Vietnamese managed to regain control of the country soon after the invasions.



> In fact, lots of ancient Vietnamese ran away from Vietnamese brutality and worked for the Chinese, and made their historical achievement with their name in Hall of Fame. Your people &#26446;&#32705;&#20210; is such a person. Quote (&#22823;&#36234;&#21490;&#35352;&#20840;&#26360;/&#22806;&#32000;&#21367;&#20043;&#19968: &#8220;&#31206;&#20341;&#20845;&#22283;&#65292;&#31281;&#30343;&#24093;&#12290;&#26178;&#25105;&#20132;&#36286;&#24904;&#24265;&#20154;&#26446;&#32705;&#20210;&#65292;&#36523;&#38263;&#20108;&#19976;&#19977;&#23610;&#12290;&#23569;&#26178;&#24448;&#37111;&#21543;&#20379;&#21147;&#24441;&#65292;&#28858;&#38263;&#23448;&#25152;&#31518;&#12290;&#36930;&#20837;&#20181;&#31206;&#65292;&#33267;&#21496;&#38583;&#26657;&#23561;&#12290;&#22987;&#30343;&#24471;&#22825;&#19979;&#65292;&#20351;&#23559;&#20853;&#23432;&#33256;&#27950;&#65292;&#32882;&#25391;&#21256;&#22900;&#65292;&#21450;&#32769;&#27512;&#30000;&#37324;&#21330;&#12290;&#22987;&#30343;&#20197;&#28858;&#30064;&#65292;&#37956;&#37509;&#28858;&#20687;&#65292;&#32622;&#21688;&#38525;&#21496;&#39340;&#38272;&#65292;&#33145;&#20013;&#23481;&#25976;&#21313;&#20154;&#65292;&#28659;&#25622;&#21205;&#20043;&#65292;&#21256;&#22900;&#20197;&#28858;&#29983;&#26657;&#23561;&#65292;&#19981;&#25954;&#29359; &#8220;https://zh.wikisource.org/wiki/大越史記全書/外紀卷之一
> Briefly: &#26446;&#32705;&#20210; was tall. He was beaten by (Vietnamese) official and ran into Qin and became an official, upto the rank of &#21496;&#38583;&#26657;&#23561;. Qin Emperor made him guard against Huns and scared the Huns till he retired to his farm and died there. Emperor thought it was extraordinary, and made a bronze status of him, with a few dozen people inside, shaking it. Huns though he was still alive, daring not invade.



Yes, a lot of Vietnamese went to China based on many reason. &#26446;&#32705;&#20210; , Lý Ông Tr&#7885;ng is one of them. I can say more, for exemple:
L&#432;u Ph&#432;&#417;ng í famous with his poet in Zhang An in China in acient time. Nguy&#7877;n An, who built Forbidden City in Peking in Ming Dynastry China, City was declared a World Heritage Site in 1987, and is listed by UNESCO as the largest collection of preserved ancient wooden structures in the world. or Nguy&#7877;n S&#417;n, he is the first foreigner promoted to rank General of PLA after 1949



> While you are allowed to argue, but at least your famous historian &#40654;&#25991;&#20241; agreed that the Chinese Zhao Tuo (&#36249;&#20311was the first who established a country called Vietnam in today&#8217;s sense, implying that before that era, Vietnam were merely composed of stateless tribes. He thus said (quote) &#8220;&#36213;&#27494;&#24093;&#33021;*&#24320;&#25299;&#25105;&#36234;*&#65292;&#32780;&#33258;&#24093;&#20854;&#22269;&#65292;&#19982;&#27721;&#25239;&#34913;&#65292;&#20070;&#31216;&#32769;&#22827;&#65292;*&#20026;&#25105;&#36234;&#20513;&#22987;&#24093;&#29579;&#20043;&#22522;&#19994;*&#65292;&#20854;&#21151;&#21487;&#35859;&#22823;&#30691;&#12290;&#8221;( &#22823;&#36234;&#21490;&#35760;&#20840;&#20070;/&#22806;&#32426;&#21367;&#20043;&#20108;, https://zh.wikisource.org/wiki/大越史記全書/外紀卷之二 ) briefly: Zhao Wu Di (Zhao Tuo) can *establish my Vietnam*, and self-enthrones in the state, balancing against Han Dynasty, *starting the foundations of Vietnam Dynasties for us*, the contribution is extraordinary.
> 
> Here we can derive two important conclusions: 1) before Zhao Tuo, Vietnam politically was composed of tribes fighting each other among themselves. None of them could call themselves Vietnam in today&#8217;s sense. A country called Vietnam in today&#8217;s sense was simply not there. 2) the country called Vietnam in today&#8217;s sense, politically and culturally, was established by a Chinese called Zhao Tuo as recognized by your Vietnamese, which could distinguish itself from northern Han Dynasty and defend itself against the northern.



&#40654;&#25991;&#20241;(Lê Van H&#432;u) hás been made mistaken when he comment about Tri&#7879;u Dynasty (207 &#8211; 111 BC) . Others Vietnamese historian critized it, until Ngô Thì S&#297; (&#21555;&#26178;&#22763 has been corrected and Zhao Dynasty period was considered same the Hans, Tang ... was invaded and temporally controlled Vietnam.

before time of Zhao Da invaded in to Vietnam, there was existed our two emperor:
 H&#7891;ng Bàng Period/Dynasty (2879 &#8211; 258 BC)
In Hong Bang period of Vietnam was ruled by Hung Vuong Emperors. Evidence of the earliest established society other than the Iron Age &#272;ông S&#417;n culture in Northern Vietnam was found in C&#7893; Loa, an ancient city situated near present-day Hà N&#7897;i.
Th&#7909;c Dynasty (257 &#8211; 207 BC)
Main articles: An D&#432;&#417;ng V&#432;&#417;ng and Co Loa Citadel
By the 3rd century BC, another Viet group, the Âu Vi&#7879;t, emigrated from present-day southern China to the Red River delta and mixed with the indigenous V&#259;n Lang population. In 258 BC, a new kingdom, Âu L&#7841;c, emerged as the union of the Âu Vi&#7879;t and the L&#7841;c Vi&#7879;t, with Th&#7909;c Phán proclaiming himself "An D&#432;&#417;ng V&#432;&#417;ng" ("King An D&#432;&#417;ng"). At his capital, C&#7893; Loa, he built many concentric walls around the city for defensive purposes. These walls, together with skilled Âu L&#7841;c archers, kept the capital safe from invaders. However, records showed that espionage resulted in the downfall of An D&#432;&#417;ng V&#432;&#417;ng when Zhao Da betrayed the peace aggreement .



> The Chinese mentality seems very different from yours. They never say Mongolians are not ours and Manchurians are foreigners, very much like citizens in USA who never say Mexican or African Americans are not Americans. They consider all other racial components of the country as their same countryman.



You lies, same as Tibetans, Mongolians and Manchurian don't think so. I don't like to post here evidences.



> In Vietnam, the Chinese were the major component being suppressed as Vietnam communists took over the power.



You lies, there was Soviet Union. Ho Chi Minh and his camrades were studied first in Moscow. I think after went Jien An red area of Communist China, Ho Chi Minh has known more about communism in China.
Not China, France colonial Govt pushed Vietnam to Communist state, when France govt denied proposal of Ho Chi Minh that Viet become indendence state in France Federation, but France belived that the can win in one month.
Dont forget that Ho Chinh released IndoChina Communist party and established Vietnam Democraty Part and Socialist Part in the same time from earlt years 1940s.



> They want to purge Hoa (Chinese) ethnically because they foolishly believe Vietnam has to be ruled by Vietnamese race, similar to Hitler's idea. This is one of the reasons why your Vietnam today is still a sh!thole of economy



Why chinese don't accept that Japanese and Britain control China ?



> Even today, in this forum, overwhelmingly larger amount of internet Vietnamese demonstrate their the kinds of thoughts via various posts, such as mocking Mongolian or Manchurian invasion of China.



We don&#8217;t like to insulting Chinese people about that, just to reminder Chinese netizens that in the past both Chinese and Vietnamese people were suffered demages in life and other violations when invaders invaded in to her country.



> The deep misunderstanding lies in the difference between Chinese and Vietnamese mentalities shaped by geography and over the millenniums of history : 1) China geographically centers in Asia: people moving around Asia have a larger chance to come to China, whereas Vietnam sits in a corner of Indo-China peninsular, with much less temptation for land traveler which was much affordable in old times. Thus, the Chinese are broader minded than Vietnamese. 2) When the Mongolians and Manchurians invaded China, they did not think Chinese culture was inferior and needed to be wiped out or replaced (like British invasion of India or French/China invasion of Vietnam). Rather, those then semi-foreigners believed China&#8217;s culture was superior to their owns but the Chinese rulers needed to be replaced. And those invaders relentlessly adopted/enjoyed Chinese language/culture/tradition as their own. Unlike India or Vietnam situation, where mostly local languages were replaced or suppressed due to being considered less useful or inferior. For the 2nd aspect, please read Dr. Henry Kissinger&#8217;s book <On China>.
> 
> This is how Chinese culture and language has never been interrupted despite of so many invasions in the past, and nearly after every breaking up of the country, China reunified with even bigger territory: those &#8220;barbarians&#8221; loved to be civilized or sinicized.



You are still lying about yourself. Kissinger is a cheater, he can let chinese trink chinese tee with chemical sugar. 
Friederich Engel said: Who rule someon else, he is the slaves.



> In your guys pitiful thinking, as if bring up Manchurian flag would shame the Chinese, the fact is no Chinese cares as in Chinese internet, enormous amount of flags from various reasons can be viewed. Do you know the &#8220;Iron blood 13-star&#8221; flag? Do you know Qing navy dragon flag? (BTW, dragon is a typical sign of Chinese culture, but the Manchurian desperately attempted to claim to inherit . Pitifully and regrettably, not many Manchurian today can write their own backward writings. ) Do you know Chinese Soviet Central Government flag when Mao Ze Dong proposed those provinces should be independent from China? LOL! More importantly, do you know the history and meanings of those flags? Probably not, as you boys bring out those flags with a toddler&#8217;s mentality: pitiful and laughable.



The people in Tibet, Uijgur, Inner Mongolia, Manchuris don&#8217;t think so, it&#8217;s no need tp post here same picture about protesting there.



> I think while I respect Vietnamese self-determination (to some destination of either prosperity or destitute), missing out Chinese boat is pretty pitiful and de-sinicization is lamentable as it will, if not handled properly, come with huge collateral damage deep to the root of your country.
> 
> And even funnier today: the friendship between Vietnam and China is considered unbelievable by some your internet Vietnamese!
> 
> Do your Vietnamese only believe in wars with China? If so, you must be crazy!
> 
> BTW, you are not losing to western capitalism, you are losing to your own by the fact that you don't make people live better and only think of war at the expense of their blood. If you keep your foolish ideology while keep people uneducated and poor, and, in your particular case, advocate war against China, you will eventually lose your country as many times happened in your history.



It reported in Vietnam that in forum in China today, Chinese govt let extremist loadly wow for war against Vietnam. It's double face of China govt.

Vietnamese don&#8217;t like to go to war with any country in the world. We have to protect and defende souvereignity of our country only

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Rechoice said:


> *Originally Posted by gpit*
> 
> Ancient Vietnam was home to some of the world's earliest civilizations and societies - making them one of the world's first people who practiced agriculture.[2][3] *The Red River valley formed a natural geographic and economic unit, bounded to the north and west by mountains and jungles, to the east by the sea and to the south by the Red River Delta.* The need to have a single authority to prevent floods of the Red River, to cooperate in constructing hydraulic systems, trade exchange, and to fight invaders, led to the creation of the *first Vietnamese states in 2879 BC.*[4] The first truly influential part of history in Vietnam occurred during the Bronze Age, when the &#272;ông S&#417;n culture dramatically advanced the civilization. Vietnam's peculiar geography made it a difficult country to attack, which is why Vietnam under Hùng V&#432;&#417;ngwas for so long an independent and self-contained state. The Âns and Qins were among the earliest foreign aggressors of Vietnam, but the ancient Vietnamese managed to regain control of the country soon after the invasions.



You people indeed belong to the Red River Delta, while the Chinese people belong to the Yellow River and Yangzi River.


----------



## Viet

More from Vietnamese Coast Guard 















200 tons Patrol Vessel





400 tons Patrol Vessel





2500 tons Patrol/Rescue Vessel

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## jhungary

I don't quite understand something. What is the Chinese claim to Spratly Island? 

I would understand the Chinese have stake in the paracel as they are close to Hainan Island. But to claim spratly island which is that further out to sea. what stake the claim? 

I don't mean to agrue but i honeslt don't know.


----------



## dreamer53320

jhungary said:


> I don't quite understand something. What is the Chinese claim to Spratly Island?
> 
> I would understand the Chinese have stake in the paracel as they are close to Hainan Island. But to claim spratly island which is that further out to sea. what stake the claim?
> 
> I don't mean to agrue but i honeslt don't know.



I'm just giving you some guideline, not asserting anything 

you can check the 11 dotted line claim first, during the Republic of China era, then follow the history up to today's PRC's 9 dotted line claim

PS: actually those are the more recent history.....but you can also check the history of ming dynasty voyage and during Qing dynasty's voyage


----------



## Rechoice

dreamer53320 said:


> I'm just giving you some guideline, not asserting anything
> 
> you can check the 11 dotted line claim first, during the Republic of China era, then follow the history up to today's PRC's 9 dotted line claim
> 
> PS: actually those are the more recent history.....but you can also check the history of ming dynasty voyage and during Qing dynasty's voyage



11 dash line was idea of some ROC officers recently 1947 after WW II. China PRC claimed it with 9 dash-line 2009 to UNCLOS. 11 dash-line and 9 dash-line is baseless.
China claim, saying : Historical evidents in old books, however such kind of evidents were demonstrated are very vague, no words mentioned that there was territory of China, intentionally necglected all statements in old books of China confirmed that: Islands were belong to others.

The book printed in China around 1550 with the name: &#28023;&#20116;(H&#7843;i Ng&#361 written by &#40644;&#20013;(Hoàn Trung) stated that : Spratly islands, is the sand islands belong to barbarian state in West-Southern of China (Vietnam today).
by the year 1898 when Chinese sea pirates robbed Imezi Maru Japanese ship transported goods for Britain in Paracel area, authority protested in China, Cantonese Governor answered that: Islands not belong to China, so China don't have responsibility about such incidents.

The truth is that in the past Man Quing Dynasty acepted Islands belong to Vietnam.


----------



## cirr

Here comes CCG&#8216;s 3000-tonne Type 818 and 2000-tonne Type718 Patrol Ships&#65306;







Construction to commence soon&#12290;


----------



## cirr

jhungary said:


> I don't quite understand something. What is the Chinese claim to Spratly Island?
> 
> I would understand the Chinese have stake in the paracel as they are close to Hainan Island. But to claim spratly island which is that further out to sea. what stake the claim?
> 
> I don't mean to agrue but i honeslt don't know.



I also happen to fail to understand the UK&#8217;s claim to the Folklands&#12289;or why are the Greek Islands dotted close to and along the Turkish coast line&#12290; As a matter of fact&#65292;I am puzzled by the fact that tiny european countries and the US claim sovereignty over so many islands in the Pacific Ocean, the Indian Ocean&#65292;the Atlantic Ocean etc&#12290;I believe it is all part of the &#65288;colonial&#65289;history&#65311;Right&#65311;

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

cirr said:


> I also happen to fail to understand the UK&#8217;s claim to the Folklands&#12289;or why are the Greek Islands dotted close to and along the Turkish coast line&#12290; As a matter of fact&#65292;I am puzzled by the fact that tiny european countries and the US claim sovereignty over so many islands in the Pacific Ocean, the Indian Ocean&#65292;the Atlantic Ocean etc&#12290;I believe it is all part of the &#65288;colonial&#65289;history&#65311;Right&#65311;



Vietnam controlled Islands as intergrated territory first in East Sea of Vietnam.
Why China don't claim Falkland and Hawai ?


----------



## Rechoice

*Vietnam breaks up anti-China protests*

The protests in Ho Chi Minh City and Hanoi were quickly dispersed by police.

Tensions are high after an incident last month in which Hanoi accused Beijing of cutting the cables of a Vietnamese oil exploration ship.

Vietnam is also unhappy at a map in new Chinese passports that shows disputed areas of the South China Sea as Chinese territory.

Hundreds of people are reported to have taken part in the protests on Sunday morning against what they see as Chinese aggression and expansionism.

But the rallies were quickly stopped by the security police - after just 45 minutes in Ho Chi Minh City and half-an-hour in Hanoi.

Protesters told the BBC that Hanoi police had detained more than 20 activists. 

Public anger

The BBC's Nga Pham says it is the first anti-China protest in Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam's largest city, in more than a year.

Public demonstrations are extremely rare in Vietnam, where the government makes social and political stability its top priority.

Police have been trying hard to prevent demonstrations, but this time it seems public anger was too great to suppress, our correspondent says.

Tensions over maritime claims in the region have been rising.

Vietnam and the Philippines accuse China of growing assertiveness around disputed islands and shoals.

The Vietnam National Oil and Gas Group (PetroVietnam) said Chinese fishing boats had sabotaged one of its oil survey vessels last month in the South China Sea.

Vietnam, the Philippines and Taiwan have also complained to China about the new passport map, saying it is an infringement of their sovereignty.

Vietnam and the Philippines are refusing to stamp the new Chinese passports and are instead issuing visas on separate sheets of paper.



BBC News - Vietnam breaks up anti-China protests

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## jhungary

dreamer53320 said:


> I'm just giving you some guideline, not asserting anything
> 
> you can check the 11 dotted line claim first, during the Republic of China era, then follow the history up to today's PRC's 9 dotted line claim
> 
> PS: actually those are the more recent history.....but you can also check the history of ming dynasty voyage and during Qing dynasty's voyage



SO, basically, both ROC and China are claim from the same Acient Boundary extended beyond Vietnam coast. Now, as my knowledge, when Vietnam become an Independent country and cede from China (ROC in 1911 is the sucession of Imperial China) in 938 AD, are there any document mentioned the ceding of vietnam included the spratly and paracel island??



cirr said:


> I also happen to fail to understand the UK&#8217;s claim to the Folklands&#12289;or why are the Greek Islands dotted close to and along the Turkish coast line&#12290; As a matter of fact&#65292;I am puzzled by the fact that tiny european countries and the US claim sovereignty over so many islands in the Pacific Ocean, the Indian Ocean&#65292;the Atlantic Ocean etc&#12290;I believe it is all part of the &#65288;colonial&#65289;history&#65311;Right&#65311;



Well, i ask a question and i got a troll answer.

First off, *it's Falkland Islands. not Folklands Island.*
Secondly, It's not that the UK wanted Falkland, but the Falkland people wanted to remain British, there are no Claim or whatever. The reason why Falkland become UK territories is the same why Australia was a former British Colony, which is, Britain Settle in Falkland first, they repel attack after attack from Argentina even America. The only different is, Falkland like to remain with the British, while Australian want their own identity.

Every Island US claim are legitmate, there are no doubt about it. If you are implying US and the west occupied any territories illegally i can tell you to STFU, all west claim on their own territories are all according to UN Public Law Forum and Law of Sovereignty. For the uneducated here is my info on law of sovereignty

http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/222879-anyone-even-know-how-land-dispute-resolved.html

Sovereignty is coming from a time where there are free for all when there are no one occupied with those island, Now it's nearly impossible now. We have all those territories for more than 100 years, if they want to leave the Union, they can leave, but all choose to stay, so what is your point??

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

cirr said:


> Here comes CCG&#8216;s 3000-tonne Type 818 and 2000-tonne Type718 Patrol Ships&#65306;
> Construction to commence soon&#12290;



No problem. I hear Vietnam marine police is waiting for delivery of some advanced patrol vessels from Japan. I hope they come soon

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

The protests in Ho Chi Minh City and Hanoi were quickly dispersed by police.






In Hanoi.






In Hochiminh City.

and more here.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## SinoChallenger

Rechoice said:


> The protests in Ho Chi Minh City and Hanoi were quickly dispersed by police.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In Hanoi.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In Hochiminh City.
> 
> and more here.


Look at the terrible bruality of the Vietnamese regime. These poor protestors just want to express their dissatisfaction with the way Vietnam is too weak to confront China. The world should help the opposition group in Vietnam for humanitarian reasons.


----------



## Soryu

SinoChallenger said:


> Look at the terrible bruality of the Vietnamese regime. These poor protestors just want to express their dissatisfaction with the way Vietnam is too weak to confront China. The world should help the opposition group in Vietnam for humanitarian reasons.



You are best chinese tro.ll that I ever seen

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zero_wing

Soryu said:


> You are best chinese tro.ll that I ever seen



Amen for that comrade

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## terranMarine

There are several categories regarding the ownership/claimants/controllers of these islands/reefs/shoals/banks

Spratly Islands dispute - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Spratly Islands dispute - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Spratly Islands dispute - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Spratly Islands dispute - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Spratly Islands dispute - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia








Another source describing how many islands are occupied by each country.
China Claims 90% of Spratly Islands, Actually Controls 13% | News, Investment commentary and Geopolitical analysis of China, India and emerging Asia

I created this thread for informative purposes so that we know the numbers of areas and the respective names that each of our country control and claim in the Spratly. I use the word "areas" because there's a distinction between islands/reefs/shoals and banks.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ahfatzia

*The 52 Spratly Islands plus smaller territories are currently controlled by *

*Vietnam (40), the Philippines (9), China (7), Malaysia (5) and Taiwan (1)*







China Claims 90% of Spratly Islands, Actually Controls 13% | News, Investment commentary and Geopolitical analysis of China, India and emerging Asia

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## W.11

make spartly independent country

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

CMS ships under construction at HPS&#65306;



























If my memory still serves&#65292;this shipyard alone has won orders for the so-called public-service ships in dozens&#12290;And China&#65292;should it so wish&#65292;can devote dozens of shipyards to the task of building hundreds of such ships&#65292;on a rate of one a week&#12290;So if you fancy a competition in this area&#65292;BRING IT ON&#65292;NOW&#65281;


----------



## cirr

Type 056 corvettes being built at the same shipyard&#65306;











Construction of Type 054As to resume at HPS soon&#12290;






Rescue ship&#65306;


----------



## cirr

A retired DDG waiting to be converted into a CMS ship&#65306;






See&#65292;China does not like to waste anything&#65292;not even an old warhorse that had been in service for over 30 years&#12290;


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

[:::~Spartacus~:::];3684757 said:


> make spartly independent country



LOL!!!

All Hail the Republic of Morac-Songhreti-Meads.





I'm perplexed because This is one of the stupidest idea I ever heard, but at the same time its also the smartest one. I know you probably just kidding around, but it will actually solve most of the problem.




> Each countries have even placed their history at stake as to who really owns the Spratlys. If the countries involved in this delicate territorial imbroglio and military installations would be built on every island then it would be like the trenches of the Western Front in the harrowing years of 1914-1918. Perhaps a nasty arms race that would further alienate China from the ASEAN would be a dreadful scenario.
> 
> Debates will be debates. Vietnam based its claim on the French administration of Indochina prior to their independence. China has a long historical basis for such claims on the island while Taiwan, a successor state of the PRC, also had its claim pinned on that argument. Being a former Japanese colony, islands (then named Shinnan Shoto) were incorporated as part of Taiwan. Malaysia classified the Spratlys as part of Sabah.
> 
> We don't have to believe the tall tales of eccentric Filipino adventurer / businessman Tomas Cloma or any form of propaganda and historical fiction but there is this "lost kingdom" of the Spratly Islands that is shrouded in both myth and legend.
> 
> On May 15, 1956, Filipino businessman Tomas Cloma claimed a number of reefs and islands in the Spratlys under the name "Free Territory of Freedomland." In a tense diplomatic situation during that time, Cloma almost provoked an international incident on July 7, 1956 when he presented the Republic of China (Taiwan) with a lowered flag on Itu Aba, which was previously hoisted by the ROC Navy. A landing party from the Republic of Vietnam (South Vietnam) raised their flag on the same island a month later. As the Republic of China moved to occupy the main island in response, Cloma sold his claim to the Philippine government, which annexed (de jure) the islands in 1978, calling them "Kalayaan."




Spratly Islands - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Spratly Islands dispute - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Spratly Islands
Republic of Morac-Songhrati-Meads
Kingdom of Colonia St John | Spratly Islands | South China Sea
Vermeintliche Staaten im Spratly-Inselarchipel

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

cirr said:


> Rescue ship&#65306;



It will do his good job to rescue young chinese boys from death when chinese leader become mad..

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Rechoice

*Philippines backs rearming of Japan*

High quality global journalism requires investment. Please share this article with others using the link below, do not cut & paste the article. See our Ts&Cs and Copyright Policy for more detail. Email ftsales.support@ft.com to buy additional rights. Philippines backs rearming of Japan - FT.com

The Philippines would strongly support a rearmed Japan shorn of its pacifist constitution as a counterweight to the growing military assertiveness of China, according to the Philippine *foreign minister.
&#8220;We would welcome that very much,&#8221; Albert del Rosario told the Financial Times in an interview. &#8220;We are looking for balancing factors in the region and Japan could be a significant balancing factor.&#8221;
High quality global journalism requires investment. Please share this article with others using the link below, do not cut & paste the article. See our Ts&Cs and Copyright Policy for more detail. Email ftsales.support@ft.com to buy additional rights. Philippines backs rearming of Japan - FT.com

The unusual statement, which risks upsetting Beijing, reflects alarm in Manila at what it sees as Chinese provocation over the South China Sea, virtually all of which is claimed by Beijing. It also comes days before an election in Japan that could see the return as prime minister of Shinzo Abe, who is committed to revising Japan&#8217;s pacifist constitution and to beefing up its military.
A constitutional revision that upgraded Japan&#8217;s Self-Defence Forces to a fully fledged military would allow it far more freedom to operate and could change the military balance in Asia. In spite of its official pacifism, Japan&#8217;s armed forces do not lack for hardware. Its navy has about 50 large surface ships, compared with China&#8217;s 70-odd.
Support from other Asian nations for a rearmed Japan could embolden Mr Abe to change the constitution.
Beijing has long raised the spectre of a return of Japanese militarism. The attitude towards Japanese rearmament in the Philippines, itself colonised by Japan, suggests regional fears of an assertive China may be beginning to trump memories of Japan&#8217;s aggressive wartime actions.
This month, the Philippines objected strongly to an announcement that maritime police from China&#8217;s Hainan province would intercept ships entering what it considered its territorial waters.
Beijing has started issuing passports that include a map of its &#8220;nine-dash&#8221; claim to almost the entire South China Sea, parts of which are also claimed by Vietnam, the Philippines, Brunei, Taiwan and Indonesia. The Philippines has refused to stamp the new passports in protest.
&#8220;The Philippines has contended all along that the nine-dash claim is an excessive claim that violates international law,&#8221; Mr del Rosario said.
Southeast Asian countries concerned about what they see as an abrupt change in China&#8217;s &#8220;peaceful-rise&#8221; diplomacy have welcomed the renewed commitment to the region by the US in the form of its &#8220;pivot&#8221;. Mr del Rosario said Manila had agreed to more US ship visits and more joint training exercises.
The region is also closely watching Beijing&#8217;s stand-off with Tokyo over the Japanese-controlled Senkaku islands, known as the Diaoyu in China.
Regional countries have struggled to present a united front against China, which prefers to deal with each capital bilaterally. Last June, the Association of Southeast Asian Nations failed to issue a final communiqué after Cambodia refused to endorse language referring to recent naval stand-offs with China.
In July, Japan and the Philippines signed a five-year agreement to strengthen military co-operation though exchanges of personnel and technology. Japan is providing 12 new patrol ships for the Philippine coast guard, financed with a combination of soft loans and foreign aid grants.
Philippines backs rearming of Japan - FT.com

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cirr

Rechoice said:


> It will do his good job to rescue young chinese boys from death when chinese leader become mad..



The noose around your neck is tightening&#12290;

China will do to you what the US has been doing to Cuba for ages&#12290;

Hard lives for you lot ahead&#12290;Be prepared to abandon ship&#12290;


----------



## shuntmaster

As China's clout grows, sea policy proves unfathomable


Shanghai: Imagine if the US state of Hawaii passed a law allowing harbour police to board and seize foreign boats operating up to 1,000 km (600 miles) from Honolulu.

That, in effect, is what happened in China about a week ago. The tropical province of Hainan, home to beachfront resorts and one of China's largest naval bases, authorised a unit of the police to interdict foreign vessels operating "illegally" in the island's waters, which, according to China, include much of the heavily disputed South China Sea.

At a time when the global community is looking to the world's second-biggest economy and a burgeoning superpower for increasing maturity and leadership on the international stage, China's opaque and disjointed foreign policy process is causing confusion and escalating tensions throughout its backyard.

Vietnam and the Philippines, which claim sovereignty over swathes of the South China Sea along with Brunei, Malaysia and Taiwan, have issued verbal protests against the Hainan rules.
India, which jointly conducts some oil exploration with Vietnam in the South China Sea, said last week it was prepared to send navy ships to the region to safeguard its interests. And the United States has publicly asked Beijing for clarification as to what, if anything, the new rules mean -- thus far to no avail.

"It is really unclear, I think, to most nations (what the regulations mean)," US Ambassador to Beijing Gary Locke told Reuters last week. "Until we really understand what these things are, there is no way to comment. First we need clarification of the extent, the purpose and the reach of these regulations."

The fact that a provincial government can unilaterally worsen one of China's most sensitive diplomatic problems highlights the dysfunctionality, and potential danger, of policy-making in this arena, analysts say.

"It shows what a mess Chinese foreign policy is when it comes to the South China Sea," said a Western diplomat in China, speaking on condition of anonymity.

According to a report by the International Crisis Group (ICG) earlier this year, no fewer than 11 government entities -- from the tourism administration to the navy -- play a role in the South China Sea. All, the ICG said, have the potential to take action that could cause diplomatic fallout.

SOVEREIGN CLAIM

That's precisely what happened in the case of the Hainan regulations. In an interview with Reuters, Wu Shicun, the senior official in the province's foreign affairs office, said he thought the rules passed by the local People's Congress would have been passed up the chain to Beijing for comment.

But when pressed, he said because he's not a part of the People's Congress he couldn't say for sure if Beijing had, in fact, even seen the new rules before they became official.

Attempts to coordinate between the myriad agencies have so far failed, and while there is a growing recognition in official circles that a problem exists, change will not likely be swift, despite a recent leadership transition, most analysts believe.

Meanwhile, disputes in the volatile Sea continue to arise. Last week, Vietnam claimed that Chinese fishing boats sabotaged one of its oil and gas research vessels. The ICG report says Chinese fishing boats have been encouraged in some cases to press outward by provincial governments.

Another source of recent, regional irritation was a map printed in new Chinese passports depicting sections of disputed territory, including the South China Sea, as belonging to China.
Zhu Feng, at Peking University's Center for International and Strategic Studies, said the passports, which were for ordinary citizens, were issued by China's Ministry of Public Security (MPS).

"I think the MPS saw that they needed to do something to show their support for China's sovereign claim, but I don't think they won any support from the Foreign Ministry," he said.

The Foreign Ministry issues passports for government officials, and Zheng noted that their passports were unchanged and carried no such map.

That points towards a big part of the problem: the Foreign Ministry has a mandate to coordinate among the various players, but it doesn't have the bureaucratic clout to do so effectively.

"The Foreign Ministry is low down on the pecking order and there are competing departments making different decisions. It's not joined up at all," said the diplomat.

In recent news conferences, ministry spokesman Hong Lei has appeared poorly briefed on the Hainan maritime rules, giving the impression the ministry itself may be playing catch-up.

A Reuters correspondent asked specifically on Friday which agency was in charge of South China Sea policy coordination. Hong gave a one-sentence response: "What I want to point out is that China manages the sea in accordance with the law."

JOINING THE DOTS

Another complicating factor in the competing territorial claims in the South China Sea is that Beijing itself has left ambiguous exactly what the "nine-dash line" on Chinese maps of the region implies. The line, which loops south along Vietnam and back up by the Philippines, appears to delineate China's territorial claims.

But it's not so simple. Carlyle Thayer, a South China Sea specialist at the University of New South Wales in Australia, said in 26 academic conferences he has attended in the past two years, repeated questions to multiple Chinese scholars about just what the line means yielded no clear answer.

"No one in China can tell you what that means," he said. "You have competing actors all backing Chinese sovereignty in an area where no one knows where it is, so it's inherently ambiguous."

Chinese government agencies had different opinions, said a senior diplomat, who has been assigned to a Southeast Asian embassy in Beijing.

"China does not even have the exact coordinates of its expansive claim in the area, making it quite difficult to determine where its claims begin and end," he said. "We have been asking them for their exact coordinates and they cannot present them to us."

Ambiguity may, some analysts argue, leave Beijing a little wiggle room to make some compromises should the disputes escalate, as diplomats in the region now fear they may. But "on the other hand," said Thayer, "they are under extraordinary pressure" now to communicate clearly and specifically what China's position is.

The government has recognised the need for better coordination, but progress is likely to be halting at best.

For the foreseeable future, the new leadership under Communist Party boss Xi Jinping would focus mostly on domestic issues, with foreign policy taking a back seat, said Stephanie Kleine-Ahlbrandt, author of the International Crisis Group's report on China's South China Sea policy.

"In that context, we are going to pretty much expect to see no substantial changes in China's foreign policy." 

© Thomson Reuters 2012


----------



## shuntmaster

As China's clout grows, sea policy proves unfathomable


Shanghai: Imagine if the US state of Hawaii passed a law allowing harbour police to board and seize foreign boats operating up to 1,000 km (600 miles) from Honolulu.

That, in effect, is what happened in China about a week ago. The tropical province of Hainan, home to beachfront resorts and one of China's largest naval bases, authorised a unit of the police to interdict foreign vessels operating "illegally" in the island's waters, which, according to China, include much of the heavily disputed South China Sea.

At a time when the global community is looking to the world's second-biggest economy and a burgeoning superpower for increasing maturity and leadership on the international stage, China's opaque and disjointed foreign policy process is causing confusion and escalating tensions throughout its backyard.

Vietnam and the Philippines, which claim sovereignty over swathes of the South China Sea along with Brunei, Malaysia and Taiwan, have issued verbal protests against the Hainan rules.
India, which jointly conducts some oil exploration with Vietnam in the South China Sea, said last week it was prepared to send navy ships to the region to safeguard its interests. And the United States has publicly asked Beijing for clarification as to what, if anything, the new rules mean -- thus far to no avail.

"It is really unclear, I think, to most nations (what the regulations mean)," US Ambassador to Beijing Gary Locke told Reuters last week. "Until we really understand what these things are, there is no way to comment. First we need clarification of the extent, the purpose and the reach of these regulations."

The fact that a provincial government can unilaterally worsen one of China's most sensitive diplomatic problems highlights the dysfunctionality, and potential danger, of policy-making in this arena, analysts say.

"It shows what a mess Chinese foreign policy is when it comes to the South China Sea," said a Western diplomat in China, speaking on condition of anonymity.

According to a report by the International Crisis Group (ICG) earlier this year, no fewer than 11 government entities -- from the tourism administration to the navy -- play a role in the South China Sea. All, the ICG said, have the potential to take action that could cause diplomatic fallout.

SOVEREIGN CLAIM

That's precisely what happened in the case of the Hainan regulations. In an interview with Reuters, Wu Shicun, the senior official in the province's foreign affairs office, said he thought the rules passed by the local People's Congress would have been passed up the chain to Beijing for comment.

But when pressed, he said because he's not a part of the People's Congress he couldn't say for sure if Beijing had, in fact, even seen the new rules before they became official.

Attempts to coordinate between the myriad agencies have so far failed, and while there is a growing recognition in official circles that a problem exists, change will not likely be swift, despite a recent leadership transition, most analysts believe.

Meanwhile, disputes in the volatile Sea continue to arise. Last week, Vietnam claimed that Chinese fishing boats sabotaged one of its oil and gas research vessels. The ICG report says Chinese fishing boats have been encouraged in some cases to press outward by provincial governments.

Another source of recent, regional irritation was a map printed in new Chinese passports depicting sections of disputed territory, including the South China Sea, as belonging to China.
Zhu Feng, at Peking University's Center for International and Strategic Studies, said the passports, which were for ordinary citizens, were issued by China's Ministry of Public Security (MPS).

"I think the MPS saw that they needed to do something to show their support for China's sovereign claim, but I don't think they won any support from the Foreign Ministry," he said.

The Foreign Ministry issues passports for government officials, and Zheng noted that their passports were unchanged and carried no such map.

That points towards a big part of the problem: the Foreign Ministry has a mandate to coordinate among the various players, but it doesn't have the bureaucratic clout to do so effectively.

"The Foreign Ministry is low down on the pecking order and there are competing departments making different decisions. It's not joined up at all," said the diplomat.

In recent news conferences, ministry spokesman Hong Lei has appeared poorly briefed on the Hainan maritime rules, giving the impression the ministry itself may be playing catch-up.

A Reuters correspondent asked specifically on Friday which agency was in charge of South China Sea policy coordination. Hong gave a one-sentence response: "What I want to point out is that China manages the sea in accordance with the law."

JOINING THE DOTS

Another complicating factor in the competing territorial claims in the South China Sea is that Beijing itself has left ambiguous exactly what the "nine-dash line" on Chinese maps of the region implies. The line, which loops south along Vietnam and back up by the Philippines, appears to delineate China's territorial claims.

But it's not so simple. Carlyle Thayer, a South China Sea specialist at the University of New South Wales in Australia, said in 26 academic conferences he has attended in the past two years, repeated questions to multiple Chinese scholars about just what the line means yielded no clear answer.

"No one in China can tell you what that means," he said. "You have competing actors all backing Chinese sovereignty in an area where no one knows where it is, so it's inherently ambiguous."

Chinese government agencies had different opinions, said a senior diplomat, who has been assigned to a Southeast Asian embassy in Beijing.

"China does not even have the exact coordinates of its expansive claim in the area, making it quite difficult to determine where its claims begin and end," he said. "We have been asking them for their exact coordinates and they cannot present them to us."

Ambiguity may, some analysts argue, leave Beijing a little wiggle room to make some compromises should the disputes escalate, as diplomats in the region now fear they may. But "on the other hand," said Thayer, "they are under extraordinary pressure" now to communicate clearly and specifically what China's position is.

The government has recognised the need for better coordination, but progress is likely to be halting at best.

For the foreseeable future, the new leadership under Communist Party boss Xi Jinping would focus mostly on domestic issues, with foreign policy taking a back seat, said Stephanie Kleine-Ahlbrandt, author of the International Crisis Group's report on China's South China Sea policy.

"In that context, we are going to pretty much expect to see no substantial changes in China's foreign policy." 

© Thomson Reuters 2012

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

cirr said:


> The noose around your neck is tightening&#12290;
> China will do to you what the US has been doing to Cuba for ages&#12290;
> 
> *Hard lives for you lot ahead*&#12290;Be prepared to abandon ship&#12290;



But we can still manage to become top investor #1 in Laos overtaking China 
Similar in Cambodia, Vietnam overtakes other ASEAN nations.

Vietnam to remain Laos' biggest investor - Xinhua | English.news.cn

http://vietnamnews.vn/Economy/220656/vn-big-investor-in-cambodia.html

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## S10

Malaysia and Brunei are both playing this smart. They kept quiet while they extract oil from the area, then selling them to China at discounted prices. It's the loudmouths that will always receive the beating.


----------



## Rechoice

Islands belong to Vietnam from long time ago, from many hundreds year ago, we didn't have any troubles with others. The disputed is just arose recently in the last century. hey.

Ancient map of Vietnam stated that Island Paracel and Spratly is part of Vietnam.


----------



## Viet

*Firm stance for Vietnam fishermen on East Sea*
tuoi tre
Updated : Sat, December 8, 2012,2:50 PM (GMT+0700) 






_Fishermen of Khanh Hoa Province are unloading tuna fish at the Hon Ron Fish Port in Nha Trang after their fishing trip on East Sea - Photo: Tuoi Tre

_
*Series of measures have been carried out to assist Vietnamese fishermen working on East Sea*, including the provision of logistics and ship-repair services, rescue and channels of communications organized by administrative and coastguard units.

*The actions from Vietnam reply the words announced by Chinese authorities that have created tensions* after the government of China&#8217;s Hainan island said they would permit their forces to check, seize and expel any boats and ships entering maritime waters of the East Sea that China claims its sovereignty. China wrongly claims an area of around 80 percent of East Sea spanning from the coasts of Vietnam to the Philippines and down close to Malaysia.

Colonel Nguyen Quoc Binh, deputy chief of the coastguard unit of the central Da Nang City, confirmed that, &#8220;We always stand side by side with Vietnamese fishermen at sea especially when facing any trouble or obstacle."

*&#8220;We always send forces offshore to prevent and stop Chinese ships illegally entering the maritime waters of Vietnam,&#8221; *he added.

Le Van Truc, deputy chairman of the People&#8217;s Committee of the central Phu Yen Province, assured that, *&#8220;We request our fishermen to report immediately any difficulty you face at sea via Icom system and our coastguard units will work out measures to protect you.&#8221;*

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

2 of 3 Airbus C212-400 maritime patrol aircrafts have been delivered to Vietnam Marine Police

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## djsjs

Viet said:


> 2 of 3 Airbus C212-400 maritime patrol aircrafts have been delivered to Vietnam Marine Police



are they paid with cash or loan from oversea banks?yesteday you told us vietnam has no money for civil airplanes


----------



## Viet

djsjs said:


> are they paid with cash or loan from oversea banks?yesteday you told us vietnam has no money for civil airplanes



No info how the deal is financed. What I told you is true, Vietnam is still a developing country, having no money for extravagance.


----------



## djsjs

Viet said:


> No info how the deal is financed. What I told you is true, Vietnam is still a developing country, having no money for extravagance.



You want to buy 16 second-hand Su27 from Ukraine.they are bargains!


----------



## Rechoice

Viet said:


> No info how the deal is financed. What I told you is true, Vietnam is still a developing country, having no money for extravagance.



I think it was financing by Ministry Of Security because Marine Police is under control of Bo Cong An.



djsjs said:


> You want to buy 16 second-hand Su27 from Ukraine.they are bargains!



It's 18 SU 30K. 
Lô 18 máy bay Su-30K c&#7911;a Nga b&#7883; &#7871;?


----------



## djsjs

Rechoice said:


> I think it was financing by Ministry Of Security because Marine Police is under control of Bo Cong An.
> 
> 
> 
> It's 18 SU 30K.
> Lô 18 máy bay Su-30K c&#7911;a Nga b&#7883; &#7871;?



two will crash in transit!and the others need to be repaired with su27 parts.and wish the parts are all made in ukraine ,rather than bought from China.


----------



## Rechoice

djsjs said:


> two will crash in transit!and the others need to be repaired with su27 parts.and wish the parts are all made in ukraine ,rather than bought from China.



SU 27 is going to out of date. Maintenance fee and spar parts will be rise.
SU 27 model was copied in China with J-serie number but it is fake product.


----------



## cirr

CMS 9020 about to jump into the fray&#65306;


----------



## cirr

DDG 131&#65292;another retired warship being transformed into a CMS ship at a Naval Shipyard in Shanghai&#65306;


----------



## Viet

@cirr
What the hell! You are transforming warships into civil coast guard vessels?


----------



## Viet

I think we should do the same trick in converting warships (Molniya missile corvette) into peaceful patrol vessels.


----------



## Rechoice

Viet said:


> I think we should do the same trick in converting warships (Molniya missile corvette) into peaceful patrol vessels.



We have been did it with old warships used from time of VNCH. Frigate Molniya missile ships are brand-new.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## djsjs

Viet said:


> @cirr
> What the hell! You are transforming warships into civil coast guard vessels?



it is a commom way in every coastal country.
what makes you feel uncomfortable is that our maritime law enforcement vessels are larger than your warships.


----------



## NiceGuy

Viet said:


> I think we should do the same trick in converting warships (Molniya missile corvette) into peaceful patrol vessels.


No, we should not, just cover the SCS(east sea)with sea mine, shoot China ships directly and start a war if they wanna fight, let's teach them a lesson again and see their economy collapse

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## NewCastle2012

Just Do It! It will be so funny if you remove the armaments from your precious NAVY ships. 



Viet said:


> I think we should do the same trick in converting warships (Molniya missile corvette) into peaceful patrol vessels.



You are always the man! If you can covert the whole SCS with sea mines, I bow to you 


NiceGuy said:


> No, we should not, just cover the SCS(east sea)with sea mine, shoot China ships directly and start a war if they wanna fight, let's teach them a lesson again and see their economy collapse


----------



## NiceGuy

NewCastle2012 said:


> Just Do It! It will be so funny if you remove the armaments from your precious NAVY ships.
> 
> 
> 
> You are always the man! If you can covert the whole SCS with sea mines, I bow to you


All we need to do is just a sea mine line, from the nearest Spratly island to our land, then No China ships can pass through afterward


----------



## Viet

NewCastle2012 said:


> Just Do It! It will be so funny* if you remove the armaments from your precious NAVY ships. *
> 
> You are always the man! If you can covert the whole SCS with sea mines, I bow to you



Who says we remove the canons and missiles from the vessels? No, we just paint them with another color, one from the Vietnam Marine Police.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

*Vietnam circulates report on UNCLOS implementation*
VNA
Updated : Wed, December 12, 2012,10:37 AM (GMT+0700) 







EEZ Waters Of Viet Nam


(output of the article)

As a country with 3,260km of coastline, *Vietnam *&#8217;s interest in the sea is significant. Aware of the significance of the sea, Vietnam has actively participated in the process of UNCLOS negotiations and made considerable efforts in implementing the Convention. It always upholds the purposes and objectives of the UNCLOS.

2. ...The Ratification Resolution of Vietnam reaffirmed the sovereignty of the Socialist Republic of Vietnam over its internal waters, territorial sea, sovereign rights and jurisdiction over the *Contiguous Zone, Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf *based on the provisions of the UNCLOS and principles of international law, and called on other countries to respect the above-mentioned rights of Vietnam .

5. ... Vietnam has signed: 
#the Agreement with *Thailand *on Maritime Delimitation on 9 August 1997; 
#The Agreement with *China *on the Delimitation of the Tonkin Gulf and on Fishery Cooperation on 25 December 2000, and 
#the Agreement with *Indonesia *on the Delimitation of Continental Shelf on 26 June 2003. 

Vietnam are currently involved in
#negotiations for delimitation of the area outside the mouth of Tonkin Gulf with *China*, 
#negotiations for the delimitation of Exclusive Economic Zone with *Indonesia *
and will conduct negotiations on sea-related issues with other neighboring countries. 

6. ...joint-development cooperation...with *Malaysia *the Memorandum of Understanding for the cooperation in exploration and exploitation of petroleum in a defined area of the continental shelf involving the two countries, which has been effectively implemented. 

Vietnam is currently engaged in negotiations with *Thailand *and *Malaysia *on cooperation in the Vietnam &#8211; Thailand &#8211; Malaysia Tripartite Overlapping Continental Shelf Claim Area.

Vietnam has fully abided by and will continue to act in accordance with the purposes and objectives and provisions of the UNCLOS, and urge other countries to take the same course of action.

full text here:
Vietnam circulates report on UNCLOS implementation - Vietnam politics news - TuoiTreNews

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

*Indian coast guard ship &#8220;ICGS Samrat&#8221; visits HCM City (Saigon)*
_Q&#272;ND - Monday, December 03, 2012, 20:13 (GMT+7)_

PANO - The &#8220;ICGS Samrat&#8221;, an Indian coast guard ship, led by Captain Mukesh Purohit, deputy commander and deputy inspector-general of the Indian Coast Guard, with 22 officers and 115 sailors on board, anchored at Ho Chi Minh City port, starting their friendly visit to Vietnam on the morning of December 2nd. 

Established in 1978, the *Indian Coast Guard has had 156 ships*, with capacity ranging from 200 to 4,300 tonnes, and 45 aircraft. The &#8220;ICGS Samrat&#8221;, an advanced patrol vessel, is 105m long, 12.9m wide and has capacity of 2,300 tonnes. It is equipped with a Chetak helicopter and several weapons. Following are some photos of the reception ceremony.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ahfatzia

*US military to increase presence in Philippines*








MANILA - US and Philippine officials are expected to agree on an increase in the number of US military ships, aircraft and troops rotating through the Philippines, Filipino officials said, as tensions simmer with China over its maritime claims.

Senior US and Philippine officials met on Wednesday in Manila to discuss strengthening security and economic ties at a time of growing tension over China's aggressive sovereignty claims over vast stretches of the disputed South China Sea.

Philippine defence and diplomatic officials said they expected to see more US ships, aircraft and troops for training exercises and disaster and relief operations.

"What we are discussing right now is increasing the rotational presence of US forces," Carlos Sorreta, the foreign ministry's Assistant Secretary for American Affairs, told reporters. A five-year joint US-Philippine military exercise plan would be approved this week, he added.

The size of the increase in the US military assets in the Philippines, a former US colony, was unclear.

But it comes as the Philippines, Australia and other parts of the region have seen a resurgence of US warships, planes and personnel under Washington's so-called "pivot" in foreign, economic and security policy towards Asia announced last year.

US and Philippine officials say there is no plan to revive permanent US military bases in the Philippines - the last ones were closed in 1992 - and that the increased presence would help provide relief during disasters such as a typhoon last week that killed more than 700 people.

"The increase rotation presence is in areas where we have been traditionally exercising," said Sorreta. "There are other areas for example where we have been experiencing more disasters. So we might be expanding exercises there."

Wary of Washington's intentions, China is building up its own military. Its claims over most of the South China Sea have set it directly against US allies Vietnam and the Philippines, while Brunei, Taiwan and Malaysia also claim parts of the mineral-rich waters.

One US official said Washington was not ready to wade directly into the territorial dispute in the South China Sea and instead would focus on strengthening security ties with long-standing allies such as the Philippines.

"I don't think you'll see any real movement on the South China Sea," the US official said.

"I'm sure it will come up, but we aren't trying to step in and 'solve' that issue. We really want the solution to be done by the claimants themselves and are hoping the Code of Conduct discussions move forward," said the official, referring to a Code of Conduct aimed at easing the risk of naval flashpoints.

Sorreta told Reuters the Philippines also favoured an increased deployment of US aircraft and ships "so we can make use of them when the need arises", citing last week's typhoon.

He said they would also welcome more US humanitarian supplies.

US military to increase presence in Philippines


My congratulations to Aquino, daddy's proud son.


----------



## Oldman1

ahfatzia said:


> *US military to increase presence in Philippines*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MANILA - US and Philippine officials are expected to agree on an increase in the number of US military ships, aircraft and troops rotating through the Philippines, Filipino officials said, as tensions simmer with China over its maritime claims.
> 
> Senior US and Philippine officials met on Wednesday in Manila to discuss strengthening security and economic ties at a time of growing tension over China's aggressive sovereignty claims over vast stretches of the disputed South China Sea.
> 
> Philippine defence and diplomatic officials said they expected to see more US ships, aircraft and troops for training exercises and disaster and relief operations.
> 
> "What we are discussing right now is increasing the rotational presence of US forces," Carlos Sorreta, the foreign ministry's Assistant Secretary for American Affairs, told reporters. A five-year joint US-Philippine military exercise plan would be approved this week, he added.
> 
> The size of the increase in the US military assets in the Philippines, a former US colony, was unclear.
> 
> But it comes as the Philippines, Australia and other parts of the region have seen a resurgence of US warships, planes and personnel under Washington's so-called "pivot" in foreign, economic and security policy towards Asia announced last year.
> 
> US and Philippine officials say there is no plan to revive permanent US military bases in the Philippines - the last ones were closed in 1992 - and that the increased presence would help provide relief during disasters such as a typhoon last week that killed more than 700 people.
> 
> "The increase rotation presence is in areas where we have been traditionally exercising," said Sorreta. "There are other areas for example where we have been experiencing more disasters. So we might be expanding exercises there."
> 
> Wary of Washington's intentions, China is building up its own military. Its claims over most of the South China Sea have set it directly against US allies Vietnam and the Philippines, while Brunei, Taiwan and Malaysia also claim parts of the mineral-rich waters.
> 
> One US official said Washington was not ready to wade directly into the territorial dispute in the South China Sea and instead would focus on strengthening security ties with long-standing allies such as the Philippines.
> 
> "I don't think you'll see any real movement on the South China Sea," the US official said.
> 
> "I'm sure it will come up, but we aren't trying to step in and 'solve' that issue. We really want the solution to be done by the claimants themselves and are hoping the Code of Conduct discussions move forward," said the official, referring to a Code of Conduct aimed at easing the risk of naval flashpoints.
> 
> Sorreta told Reuters the Philippines also favoured an increased deployment of US aircraft and ships "so we can make use of them when the need arises", citing last week's typhoon.
> 
> He said they would also welcome more US humanitarian supplies.
> 
> US military to increase presence in Philippines
> 
> 
> My congratulations to Aquino, daddy's proud son.



Congrats to China for making it possible.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ahfatzia

Oldman1 said:


> Congrats to China for making it possible.




LOL You should congratulate yourself and thank China for finally getting your wishes. Good luck to you two.


----------



## terranMarine

ahfatzia said:


> LOL You should congratulate yourself and thank China for finally getting your wishes. Good luck to you two.



Pinoy women are gonna share the same fate as those poor Okinawa and South Korean girls. God save those girls from GI rapists.


----------



## cirr

&#8220;China Fishery 35318&#8221; launched at Fujian Lixin Shipbuilding Engineering Co. Ltd. on 12.12.2012 &#65288;an auspiciou date&#65311;&#65289;


----------



## cirr

"China Fishery 35901" starts its maiden voyage 29.11.2019:


----------



## cirr

*China shipbuilder to start infrastructure, energy projects in Sansha*

Xinhua | 2012-11-27 13:37:11 

By Agencies 

China's major ship-building conglomerate will start infrastructure, energy and water resources projects in Sansha, the country's southernmost city in the South China Sea, local officials said Tuesday.

The Sansha Municipal Government on Monday signed a package of cooperation agreements with China Shipbuilding Industry Corporation, the state-owned conglomerate that engages in manufacturing and scientific research in a number of maritime industries.

Details of the agreements were not immediately available, but officials said enhanced cooperation on key projects in infrastructure development, energy and water resources is expected.

The aim of the deals, the officials said, is "to safeguard sovereignty and serve the country's maritime power strategy."

Sansha is China's youngest city. It was officially set up in July on Yongxing Island in the South China Sea to administer the Xisha, Zhongsha and Nansha islands and their surrounding waters.

Development has sped up in recent months on the islands under the jurisdiction of Sansha. Construction on a desalinator has begun. When completed in December 2013, it will supply clean water to nearby islets and reefs, as well as passing ships.

China shipbuilder to start infrastructure, energy projects in Sansha - Globaltimes.cn


----------



## Viet

The gang of 4 is ready for action


----------



## SinoChallenger

terranMarine said:


> Pinoy women are gonna share the same fate as those poor Okinawa and South Korean girls. God save those girls from GI rapists.


No don't save the Pinoys or South Koreans. They pay the price for their decisions.


----------



## Zero_wing

ahfatzia said:


> LOL You should congratulate yourself and thank China for finally getting your wishes. Good luck to you two.



And your still playing that card really you real show your true colors mainlander



terranMarine said:


> Pinoy women are gonna share the same fate as those poor Okinawa and South Korean girls. God save those girls from GI rapists.



Really why are offended your weapons are too small hahahahha 



SinoChallenger said:


> No don't save the Pinoys or South Koreans. They pay the price for their decisions.



Ya and we all look forward marching to the streets of Beijing just like Japan in World War 2 man must be humilating to be defend by small country not only once but many times man so bad!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cirr

&#8220;Exploration 225&#8221; is ready&#65288;30.10.2012&#65289;for seismic studies in the South China Sea&#65306;


----------



## Audio

U.S. military to increase presence in Philippines

A certain junior tank "thinker" and the chi bots will not approve! 




cirr said:


> &#8220;Exploration 225&#8221; is ready&#65288;30.10.2012&#65289;for seismic studies in the South China Sea&#65306;



So when is it going? i can see by the amount of how much of it is submerged it is not even fully loaded with fuel and other things. 30.10.2012 is long gone btw, i dont know what you meant with that date.


----------



## Soryu

Viet said:


> @cirr
> What the hell! You are transforming warships into civil coast guard vessels?



Don't worry, bro. They have many ship, but they still hold nothing if they don't have have justice and rights for their claim. They still not being the center of this world like their name ( or like their thought ).

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Soryu

S10 said:


> Malaysia and Brunei are both playing this smart. They kept quiet while they extract oil from the area, then selling them to China at discounted prices. It's the loudmouths that will always receive the beating.


You are SENIOR MEMBERS but you speak like a tro.ll. 
How could you touch Malay and Brunei if you can not solve with VietNam and Phillipin!?


ahfatzia said:


> *The 52 Spratly Islands plus smaller territories are currently controlled by *
> 
> *Vietnam (40), the Philippines (9), China (7), Malaysia (5) and Taiwan (1)*



Do you have better res of this map!?


----------



## NewCastle2012

All the land marks are written in Chinese. Why is it not a Chinese map?


Rechoice said:


> Islands belong to Vietnam from long time ago, from many hundreds year ago, we didn't have any troubles with others. The disputed is just arose recently in the last century. hey.
> 
> Ancient map of Vietnam stated that Island Paracel and Spratly is part of Vietnam.


----------



## Fattyacids

Soryu said:


> You are SENIOR MEMBERS but you speak like a tro.ll.
> How could you touch Malay and Brunei if you can not solve with VietNam and Phillipin!?
> 
> 
> Do you have better res of this map!?



It's a children crayon drawing.



NewCastle2012 said:


> All the land marks are written in Chinese. Why is it not a Chinese map?



It's a children crayon drawing.


----------



## Soryu

NewCastle2012 said:


> All the land marks are written in Chinese. Why is it not a Chinese map?



So what was wrote on that map !?


----------



## NewCastle2012

The names we gave to the SCS islands in the ancient times and I don't see your country's name. Oh, wait a minute. Your country did not exist at that time. 


Soryu said:


> So what was wrote on that map !?


----------



## Rechoice

This is part of "Full map of Great Viet" here. 
&#8220;&#272;&#7841;i Nam nh&#7845;t th&#7889;ng toàn &#273;&#7891;&#8221; when Vietnam used Hanji for writing. "Da nan i tong quan do" Educated Chinese can understand.


----------



## Soryu

NewCastle2012 said:


> The names we gave to the SCS islands in the ancient times and I don't see your country's name. Oh, wait a minute. Your country did not exist at that time.



Could you answer in exactly way for my question!? Not bla bla.... please!



> So what was wrote on that map !?


----------



## NewCastle2012

I blame myself. I fell into the same trap again. 

From Vietnamese: .... A question.
From Chinese: Answer the question with patience. 
From Vietnamese: Could you answer my question and not trolling? 

Your location is "In the GOOD we trust"? I blame myself for even wasting my time to answer your posts. 


Soryu said:


> Could you answer in exactly way for my question!? Not bla bla.... please!



Could you tell others that "Han Ji" is Chinese so well educated people from other parts of the world can understand what you are talking about? 



Rechoice said:


> This is part of "Full map of Great Viet" here.
> &#8220;&#272;&#7841;i Nam nh&#7845;t th&#7889;ng toàn &#273;&#7891;&#8221; when Vietnam used Hanji for writing. "Da nan i tong quan do" Educated Chinese can understand.


----------



## Soryu

NewCastle2012 said:


> I blame myself. I fell into the same trap again.
> 
> From Vietnamese: .... A question.
> From Chinese: Answer the question with patience.
> From Vietnamese: Could you answer my question and not trolling?
> 
> Your location is "In the GOOD we trust"? I blame myself for even wasting my time to answer your posts.
> 
> 
> Could you tell others that "Han Ji" is Chinese so well educated people from other parts of the world can understand what you are talking about?



LOL, Someone can explain for me that which he bla bla about!?

I asking you that: "What was wrote on that map!?"
because this stupid:


> All the land marks are written in Chinese. Why is it not a Chinese map?



P/S: you trap yourself with arrogant! LOL

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Rechoice

NewCastle2012 said:


> I blame myself. I fell into the same trap again.
> 
> From Vietnamese: .... A question.
> From Chinese: Answer the question with patience.
> From Vietnamese: Could you answer my question and not trolling?
> 
> Your location is "In the GOOD we trust"? I blame myself for even wasting my time to answer your posts.
> 
> 
> Could you tell others that "Han Ji" is Chinese so well educated people from other parts of the world can understand what you are talking about?



Your avatar show you are Chinese.
In the past Vietnam used Han Characters (Han Ji) for writing, like Japanese has been used until now. In the map is clearly stating that "Great United Viet Full map". There are Paracel and Spratly Islands are part of Vietnam territory. Understand ?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cirr

Soryu said:


> Don't worry, bro. They have many ship, but they still hold nothing if they don't have have justice and rights for their claim. They still not being the center of this world like their name ( or like their thought ).



Don't worry&#12290;You will be evicted out of those islands and reefs you illegally occupied one by one&#12290;

You are a tiny part in the grand scheme of things&#65292;more an irritation than anything else&#12290;You will be fully taken care of when the time comes&#12290; And time is on China's side&#12290;

Be patient&#12290;

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

cirr said:


> Don't worry&#12290;You will be evicted out of those islands and reefs you illegally occupied one by one&#12290;
> 
> You are a tiny part in the grand scheme of things&#65292;more an irritation than anything else&#12290;You will be fully taken care of when the time comes&#12290; And time is on China's side&#12290;
> 
> Be patient&#12290;



Rober has his big mouth.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cirr

CMS 4067 launched&#65306;


----------



## Viet

cirr said:


> Don't worry&#12290;You will be evicted out of those islands and reefs you illegally occupied one by one&#12290;
> You are a tiny part in the grand scheme of things&#65292;more an irritation than anything else&#12290;You will be fully taken care of when the time comes&#12290; And time is on China's side&#12290;
> 
> Be patient&#12290;



If you haven´t noticed, we produce enough cruise missiles such as SS-N-25 Switchblade to keep all of your warships out of SCS. And one missile is dedicated to stop your big mouth. 





Russia to Help Vietnam Produce Anti-Ship Missiles, RIA Says - Bloomberg
http://en.rian.ru/world/20120215/171330093.html


----------



## S10

Soryu said:


> You are SENIOR MEMBERS but you speak like a tro.ll.
> How could you touch Malay and Brunei if you can not solve with VietNam and Phillipin!?


Bit by bit, we're squeezing you both out of the area and your governments know it. It's only a matter of time, hence you are crying as loud as possible. By in the realm of international politics, money and power talks. You have neither. That's why you only get empty words of assurances, but not substantial help. Give it 20 years and see if you still control any island.



Viet said:


> If you haven´t noticed, we produce enough cruise missiles such as SS-N-25 Switchblade to keep all of your warships out of SCS. And one missile is dedicated to stop your big mouth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia to Help Vietnam Produce Anti-Ship Missiles, RIA Says - Bloomberg
> http://en.rian.ru/world/20120215/171330093.html


A sure sign of an obsolete military and people is the belief in one "magical' weapon system that will keep them safe. China went through the same phrase in 1990's before realizing how ridiculous it was. The difference is when you realize it, you have neither the money or the industrial capability to completely overhaul your military.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## auspice

S10 said:


> Bit by bit, we're squeezing you both out of the area and your governments know it. It's only a matter of time, hence you are crying as loud as possible. By in the realm of international politics, money and power talks. You have neither. That's why you only get empty words of assurances, but not substantial help. Give it 20 years and see if you still control any island.
> 
> 
> A sure sign of an obsolete military and people is the belief in one "magical' weapon system that will keep them safe. China went through the same phrase in 1990's before realizing how ridiculous it was. The difference is when you realize it, you have neither the money or the industrial capability to completely overhaul your military.


You talk nonsense. The day will come when all the nations on earth will rebel against a super bully China. And it is forth coming. You have antagonized your neighbors along your boarder. Vietnam knows you so much regarding cheating on your boarder claim. Russia knows you fully well when you claim that "small" island along your boarder with Russia which could have triggered a mortal war between you two. You claim Taiwan, you claim Tibet, etc. In short, you are the head ache and eye sore of the world.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## S10

auspice said:


> You talk nonsense. The day will come when all the nations on earth will rebel against a super bully China. And it is forth coming. You have antagonized your neighbors along your boarder. Vietnam knows you so much regarding cheating on your boarder claim. Russia knows you fully well when you claim that "small" island along your boarder with Russia which could have triggered a mortal war between you two. You claim Taiwan, you claim Tibet, etc. In short, you are the head ache and eye sore of the world.


You read too much fantasy. Did anybody come to your aid when Americans raped and colonized you? Of course nobody did, because your country has no influence. In truth, China only has you Flips and Viets to deal with in South China Sea. You have a misguided sense of security, walking into a fight thinking you have imaginary friends to help you. We really don't care whether you stand in our way or not, since your country is so irrelevant. We have both money and power, while you have none of these. You are truly stupid if you think people will help you against China, poised to become the largest economy on earth in 10 years.

People tends to befriend the successful and avoid the losers. Your country is a loser on the international stage and nobody will give you any real support except empty words. Hell, we even rendered you irrelevant in ASEAN.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

S10 said:


> You read too much fantasy. Did anybody come to your aid when Americans raped and colonized you? Of course nobody did, because your country has no influence. In truth, China only has you Flips and Viets to deal with in South China Sea. You have a misguided sense of security, walking into a fight thinking you have imaginary friends to help you. We really don't care whether you stand in our way or not, since your country is so irrelevant. We have both money and power, while you have none of these. You are truly stupid if you think people will help you against China, poised to become the largest economy on earth in 10 years.
> 
> People tends to befriend the successful and avoid the losers. Your country is a loser on the international stage and nobody will give you any real support except empty words. Hell, we even rendered you irrelevant in ASEAN.



In human world, Philippine and Vietnam has the strongest power is that the legal rights on Scarborough Shoal and Vietnam on Paracel Islands under rules of internal law. China is fear to go to Arbitration International Court of Justice in Hague following suggestion of Philippine.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

S10 said:


> Bit by bit, we're squeezing you both out of the area and your governments know it. It's only a matter of time, hence you are crying as loud as possible. By in the realm of international politics, money and power talks. You have neither. That's why you only get empty words of assurances, but not substantial help. Give it 20 years and see if you still control any island.
> 
> 
> A sure sign of an obsolete military and people is the belief in one "magical' weapon system that will keep them safe. China went through the same phrase in 1990's before realizing how ridiculous it was. The difference is when you realize it, you have neither the money or the industrial capability to completely overhaul your military.



You don't give any proof about your right with CSS and 9-dots-line or something real about situation, you just bla bla about "how about VietNam, Phillippine, Malay, Brunei doing this and that... !? And China will wipe out other, China will rule this area with her shjt!" LOL

Sorry to said, in this time, you just said like a stupid.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## S10

Rechoice said:


> In human world, Philippine and Vietnam has the strongest power is that the legal rights on Scarborough Shoal and Vietnam on Paracel Islands under rules of internal law. China is fear to go to Arbitration International Court of Justice in Hague following suggestion of Philippine.


That's funny. In the 1980's and 1990's, you didn't bring up taking the case to UN when you were harassing our fishermen. Now that we're squeezing you out of the area, you're crying. So you can dish it but can't take it? Too bad. Everybody claims they have the right, but in the real world power determines your borders. Flips and Viets have no concept of Realpolitik.


----------



## S10

Soryu said:


> You don't give any proof about your right with CSS and 9-dots-line or something real about situation, you just bla bla about "how about VietNam, Phillippine, Malay, Brunei doing this and that... !? And China will wipe out other, China will rule this area with her shjt!" LOL
> 
> Sorry to said, in this time, you just said like a stupid.


The proof has been debated to death for months. This is not going to resolved through words. We kept quiet on this issue for the longest time, despite your harassment. Now the tables have turned and you suddenly want to talk. We were the first ones to discover the island, and first ones to patrol it. When we were sailing the area, you were still smearing sh*t on each other in monkey caves.

Since you won't negotiate in bilateral dialogue, we're going to act unilaterally.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Soryu

S10 said:


> You read too much fantasy. Did anybody come to your aid when Americans raped and colonized you? Of course nobody did, because your country has no influence. In truth, China only has you Flips and Viets to deal with in South China Sea. You have a misguided sense of security, walking into a fight thinking you have imaginary friends to help you. We really don't care whether you stand in our way or not, since your country is so irrelevant. We have both money and power, while you have none of these. You are truly stupid if you think people will help you against China, poised to become the largest economy on earth in 10 years.
> 
> People tends to befriend the successful and avoid the losers. Your country is a loser on the international stage and nobody will give you any real support except empty words. Hell, we even rendered you irrelevant in ASEAN.


I'm sorry to say this to you, S10:
_China maybe is the successful, but you are not! The way you said made you like a loser, arrogant, mental ill just want to take something from other because yourself are loser and feel humiliated just like in very many fictions in China site_ ( Did you know about those!? )

In early post, you said that Malay and Brunei steal oil in silent from China, but now you say china has only Viet and Flips to deal, and nobody will stop China Empire.
Wake up, boy, maybe in your head, China just rule by the law of jungle, but this world is not.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Rechoice

S10 said:


> That's funny. In the 1980's and 1990's, you didn't bring up taking the case to UN when you were harassing our fishermen. Now that we're squeezing you out of the area, you're crying. So you can dish it but can't take it? Too bad. Everybody claims they have the right, but in the real world power determines your borders. Flips and Viets have no concept of Realpolitik.



China is illegaly robbed Islands of Vietnam, but can't swallow it.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Soryu

S10 said:


> The proof has been debated to death for months. This is not going to resolved through words. We kept quiet on this issue for the longest time, despite your harassment. Now the tables have turned and you suddenly want to talk. We were the first ones to discover the island, and first ones to patrol it. When we were sailing the area, you were still smearing sh*t on each other in monkey caves.
> 
> Since you won't negotiate in bilateral dialogue, we're going to act unilaterally.



Oh, big mouth! You just say that over and over, and yet no proof with your insult words. 
Who is loser!? Can you bring some proof!? Can you explain about what are 9-dots-line (copy and paste some if you can not speak by yourself about that)!? And stop stupid action with insult words if you guys realy is the successful like you said.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Soryu

S10 said:


> The proof has been debated to death for months. This is not going to resolved through words. We kept quiet on this issue for the longest time, despite your harassment. Now the tables have turned and you suddenly want to talk. We were the first ones to discover the island, and first ones to patrol it. When we were sailing the area, you were still smearing sh*t on each other in monkey caves.
> 
> Since you won't negotiate in bilateral dialogue, we're going to act unilaterally.


If you really have rights and proofs about your claim in SCS, why did you have to refuse to bring the case go to Arbitration International Court of Justice!?


Rechoice said:


> In human world, Philippine and Vietnam has the strongest power is that the legal rights on Scarborough Shoal and Vietnam on Paracel Islands under rules of internal law. China is fear to go to Arbitration International Court of Justice in Hague following suggestion of Philippine.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## S10

Soryu said:


> I'm sorry to say this to you, S10:
> _China maybe is the successful, but you are not! The way you said made you like a loser, arrogant, mental ill just want to take something from other because yourself are loser and feel humiliated just like in very many fictions in China site_ ( Did you know about those!? )
> 
> In early post, you said that Malay and Brunei steal oil in silent from China, but now you say china has only Viet and Flips to deal, and nobody will stop China Empire.
> Wake up, boy, maybe in your head, China just rule by the law of jungle, but this world is not.


Heh, you're quite pathetic. The only ones humiliated recently are your worthless countrymen. How many of your fishing boat did we detain? How many of your cables did we cut? We got your den of thieves contained within our 9 dotted lines. Oh by the way, this world does work according to laws of the jungle, called Realpolitik. Malaysia and Brunei are not openly opposing us, thus they can be negotiated with. Vietnam on the other hand, heh good luck. We're known to wreck infrastructures when we use military force.



Soryu said:


> If you really have rights and proofs about your claim in SCS, why did you have to refuse to bring the case go to Arbitration International Court of Justice!?


When you were busy stealing islands in the 1980's, you didn't mention the court. Now you're getting your *** beaten, you suddenly want a court hearing? The verdict has already been delivered to your country.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## S10

Rechoice said:


> China is illegaly robbed Islands of Vietnam, but can't swallow it.


It's our island, and you're loitering on it. Expect eviction soon. I don't think you will have any islands to speak of in 20 years.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

S10 said:


> It's our island, and you're loitering on it. Expect eviction soon. I don't think you will have any islands to speak of in 20 years.



In the past Man Quing was big Emperor but the accepted the truth that Islands belong to Vietnam then we didn't have troubles with China from ancient time to recently 19th century. Chine claim to Islands of Vietnam is illegally. In any case Islands are part of Vietnam for ever.


----------



## jbond197

S10 said:


> It's our island, and you're loitering on it. Expect eviction soon. I don't think you will have any islands to speak of in 20 years.



It's not a cake that China can easily consume.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## S10

Rechoice said:


> In the past Man Quing was big Emperor but the accepted the truth that Islands belong to Vietnam then we didn't have troubles with China from ancient time to recently 19th century. Chine claim to Islands of Vietnam is illegally. In any case Islands are part of Vietnam for ever.


Keep saying that to yourself and maybe we'll let you look at it once in a while.



jbond197 said:


> It's not a cake that China can easily consume.


No, we're not going to evict them within a day. This is just the beginning. We kept silent for the longest time to avoid confrontations, but they took it as a sign of weakness. Now that they realized China isn't going to let them off the hook, they ***** and cry about going to court.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## EastSea

S10 said:


> Keep saying that to yourself and maybe we'll let you look at it once in a while.
> 
> 
> No, we're not going to evict them within a day. This is just the beginning. We kept silent for the longest time to avoid confrontations, but they took it as a sign of weakness. Now that they realized China isn't going to let them off the hook, they ***** and cry about going to court.



Chinese was silent in the past because China didn't have right to claim, in facts chinese didn't considered Island belong to China. In old book of china our East Sea was called as Jiao Zhi Sea, the Sea of Giao Chi people (Kochi or C&#417; Ch&#7881; the ancient time, Kochi is word came from South Asia). Vietnam controlled peacefully, officially from many hundreds years in the past.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## S10

EastSea said:


> Chinese was silent in the past because China didn't have right to claim, in facts chinese didn't considered Island belong to China. In old book of china our East Sea was called as Jiao Zhi Sea, the Sea of Giao Chi people (Kochi or C&#417; Ch&#7881; the ancient time, Kochi is word came from South Asia). Vietnam controlled peacefully, officially from many hundreds years in the past.


We maintained the same claim since 1949. We kept quiet hoping to faciliate better relationship in the past, but you took advantage of that. Now you are going to pay for your crimes. Also, South China Sea was called &#28072;&#28023;&#12289;&#27832;&#28023; in ancient China, that Jiao Zhi Sea claim is a lie. We have sailed the sea since Eastern Han dynasty, when you are still cave monkeys.


----------



## Rechoice

S10 said:


> We maintained the same claim since 1949. We kept quiet hoping to faciliate better relationship in the past, but you took advantage of that. Now you are going to pay for your crimes. Also, South China Sea was called &#28072;&#28023;&#12289;&#27832;&#28023; in ancient China, that Jiao Zhi Sea claim is a lie. We have sailed the sea since Eastern Han dynasty, when you are still cave monkeys.



Lying is chinese character.
Here under is Chinese map in book "wo bi zhi" printed in China. It's stating "Jiao Zhi Yang" in map.







These old Chinese maps from Chinese historical sources (from 1561 until 1909) indicate that the southernmost border of China ends with Hainan Island. No where does it indicate that the archipelagos of Paracel and Spratly were a part of China. This is in contrast to the ancient maps of Vietnam, which all depicted clearly that these two archipelagos were part of Vietnam.

Here under is the map " Full map of United Great Viet".


----------



## Zero_wing

S10 said:


> We maintained the same claim since 1949. We kept quiet hoping to faciliate better relationship in the past, but you took advantage of that. Now you are going to pay for your crimes. Also, South China Sea was called &#28072;&#28023;&#12289;&#27832;&#28023; in ancient China, that Jiao Zhi Sea claim is a lie. We have sailed the sea since Eastern Han dynasty, when you are still cave monkeys.



Wow your idea of peace blow my mind imperialist

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

S10 said:


> We maintained the same claim since 1949. We kept quiet hoping to faciliate better relationship in the past, but you took advantage of that. Now you are going to pay for your crimes. Also, South China Sea was called &#28072;&#28023;&#12289;&#27832;&#28023; in ancient China, that Jiao Zhi Sea claim is a lie. We have sailed the sea since Eastern Han dynasty, when you are still cave monkeys.



You idiot!

Where did you get your education? in a CCP youth school or in the Red guard?

Eastern Han dynasty began since 25 AD, whereas Vietnam´s Hung Emperor dated back since 2800 BC! Ancient Vietnam was one of the first country which did wet-rice cultivation. Check the map of the Han´s: no islands were drawn in the southern sea!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Minjitta

jhungary said:


> I don't quite understand something. What is the Chinese claim to Spratly Island?
> 
> I would understand the Chinese have stake in the paracel as they are close to Hainan Island. But to claim spratly island which is that further out to sea. what stake the claim?
> 
> I don't mean to agrue but i honeslt don't know.


Dont worry China News claim Hawaii belong to China too so dont be surprise.LOL

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Kolaps

Because 100 years ago, no one own these islands. And Republic of China was the first who claimed, while at the time, there was no modern country of Vietnam, Philippine and Malaysia.

If the recent established Vietnam and Philippine can easily claim islands that already belong to someone else, theoretically, based on this thinking, not just China, everyone can claim Hawaii as well and another islands. What a chaos.


----------



## Rechoice

Kolaps said:


> Because 100 years ago, no one own these islands. And Republic of China was the first who claimed, while at the time, there was no modern country of Vietnam, Philippine and Malaysia.
> 
> If the recent established Vietnam and Philippine can easily claim islands that already belong to someone else, theoretically, based on this thinking, not just China, everyone can claim Hawaii as well and another islands. What a chaos.



You lies.
Full map of United Vietnam of Nguyen Dynasty from 1836 stating that Islands are part of Vietnam.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Kolaps

That is the main problem with Vietnam. Their claim is based on old territory from the Nguyen Dynasty, not modern territory from French colonial period.


----------



## Viet

Kolaps said:


> That is the main problem with Vietnam. Their claim is based on old territory from the *Nguyen Dynasty*, not modern territory from French colonial period.



Why should it be a problem?

China occupied and ruled Vietnam for 1,000 years, while France for 100 years. Vietnam was and is always Vietnam, so its claims. The soul and characters of a nation matter. Considering the 5,000 years history of Vietnam, the times were just a moment of time.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Rechoice

Kolaps said:


> That is the main problem with Vietnam. Their claim is based on old territory from the Nguyen Dynasty, not modern territory from French colonial period.



idiot, you have to learn more to troll nonsens here.
Nguyen Kingdom of Vietnam is officially existed until 1945. France was protectorate to Nguyen Kingdom Vietnam's only.

Vietnamese were living in Hoang Sa in the time.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Kolaps

What about this:

*"Declaration of the Government of the People's Republic of China on China's Territorial Sea (September 4&#65292; 1958)"* in Chinese.



> &#20013;&#21326;&#20154;&#27665;&#20849;&#21644;&#22269;&#25919;&#24220;&#23459;&#24067;
> 
> &#12288;&#12288;&#65288;&#19968;&#65289;&#20013;&#21326;&#20154;&#27665;&#20849;&#21644;&#22269;&#30340;&#39046;&#28023;&#23485;&#24230;&#20026;12&#28023;&#37324;&#12290;&#36825;&#39033;&#35268;&#23450;&#36866;&#29992;&#20110;&#20013;&#21326;&#20154;&#27665;&#20849;&#21644;&#22269;&#30340;&#19968;&#20999;&#39046;&#22303;&#65292;&#21253;&#25324;&#20013;&#22269;&#22823;&#38470;&#21450; &#20854;&#27839;&#28023;&#23707;&#23679;&#65292;&#21644;&#21516;&#22823;&#38470;&#21450;&#20854;&#27839;&#28023;&#23707;&#23679;&#38548;&#26377;&#20844;&#28023;&#30340;&#21488;&#28286;&#21450;&#20854;&#21608;&#22260;&#21508;&#23707;&#12289;&#28558;&#28246;&#21015;&#23707;&#12289;&#19996;&#27801;&#32676;&#23707;&#12289;&#35199;&#27801;&#32676;&#23707;&#12289;&#20013;&#27801;&#32676;&#23707;&#12289; &#21335;&#27801;&#32676;&#23707;&#20197;&#21450;&#20854;&#20182;&#23646;&#20110;&#20013;&#22269;&#30340;&#23707;&#23679;&#12290;
> 
> &#12288;&#12288;&#65288;&#20108;&#65289;&#20013;&#22269;&#22823;&#38470;&#21450;&#20854;&#27839;&#28023;&#23707;&#23679;&#30340;&#39046;&#28023;&#20197;&#36830;&#25509;&#22823;&#38470;&#23736;&#19978;&#21644;&#27839;&#28023;&#23736;&#22806;&#32536;&#23707;&#23679;&#19978;&#21508;&#22522;&#28857;&#20043;&#38388;&#30340;&#21508;&#30452;&#32447;&#20026;&#22522;&#32447;&#65292;&#20174;&#22522;&#32447; &#21521;&#22806;&#24310;&#20280;12&#28023;&#37324;&#30340;&#27700;&#22495;&#26159;&#20013;&#22269;&#30340;&#39046;&#28023;&#12290;&#22312;&#22522;&#32447;&#20197;&#20869;&#30340;&#27700;&#22495;&#65292;&#21253;&#25324;&#28196;&#28023;&#28286;&#12289;&#29756;&#24030;&#28023;&#23777;&#22312;&#20869;&#12289;&#37117;&#26159;&#20013;&#22269;&#30340;&#20869;&#28023;&#12289;&#22312;&#22522; &#32447;&#20197;&#20869;&#30340;&#23707;&#23679;&#65292;&#21253;&#25324;&#19996;&#24341;&#23707;&#12289;&#39640;&#30331;&#23707;&#12289;&#39532;&#31062;&#21015;&#23707;&#12289;&#30333;&#29356;&#21015;&#23707;&#12289;&#20044;&#23731;&#23707;&#12289;&#22823;&#23567;&#37329;&#38376;&#23707;&#12289;&#22823;&#25285;&#23707;&#12289;&#20108;&#25285;&#23707;&#12289;&#19996;&#30855;&#23707;&#22312;&#20869; &#65292;&#37117;&#26159;&#20013;&#22269;&#30340;&#20869;&#28023;&#12290;
> 
> &#12288;&#12288;&#65288;&#19977;&#65289;&#19968;&#20999;&#22806;&#22269;&#39134;&#26426;&#21644;&#20891;&#29992;&#33337;&#33334;&#65292;&#26410;&#32463;&#20013;&#21326;&#20154;&#27665;&#20849;&#21644;&#22269;&#25919;&#24220;&#30340;&#35768;&#21487;&#65292;&#19981;&#24471;&#36827;&#20837;&#20013;&#22269;&#30340;&#39046;&#28023;&#21644;&#39046;&#28023; &#19978;&#31354;&#12290;
> 
> &#12288;&#12288;&#20219;&#20309;&#22806;&#22269;&#33337;&#33334;&#22312;&#20013;&#22269;&#39046;&#28023;&#33322;&#34892;&#65292;&#24517;&#39035;&#36981;&#23432;&#20013;&#21326;&#20154;&#27665;&#20849;&#21644;&#22269;&#25919;&#24220;&#30340;&#26377;&#20851;&#27861;&#20196;&#12290;
> 
> &#12288;&#12288;&#65288;&#22235;&#65289;&#20197;&#19978;&#65288;&#19968;&#65289;&#65288;&#20108;&#65289;&#20004;&#39033;&#35268;&#23450;&#30340;&#21407;&#21017;&#21516;&#26679;&#36866;&#29992;&#20110;&#21488;&#28286;&#21450;&#20854;&#21608;&#22260;&#21508;&#23707;&#12289;&#28558;&#28246;&#21015;&#23707;&#12289;&#19996;&#27801;&#32676;&#23707;&#12289;&#35199;&#27801;&#32676;&#23707;&#12289;&#21335; &#27801;&#32676;&#23707;&#20197;&#21450;&#20854;&#20182;&#23646;&#20110;&#20013;&#22269;&#30340;&#23707;&#23679;&#12290;
> 
> &#12288;&#12288;&#21488;&#28286;&#21644;&#28558;&#28246;&#22320;&#21306;&#29616;&#22312;&#20173;&#28982;&#34987;&#32654;&#22269;&#27494;&#21147;&#20405;&#21344;&#65292;&#36825;&#26159;&#20405;&#29359;&#20013;&#21326;&#20154;&#27665;&#20849;&#21644;&#22269;&#39046;&#22303;&#23436;&#25972;&#30340;&#21644;&#20027;&#26435;&#30340;&#38750;&#27861;&#34892;&#20026;&#12290;&#21488;&#28286;&#21644;&#28558; &#28246;&#31561;&#22320;&#23578;&#24453;&#25910;&#22797;&#65292;&#20013;&#21326;&#20154;&#27665;&#20849;&#21644;&#22269;&#25919;&#24220;&#26377;&#26435;&#37319;&#21462;&#19968;&#20999;&#36866;&#24403;&#30340;&#26041;&#27861;&#22312;&#36866;&#24403;&#30340;&#26102;&#20505;&#65292;&#25910;&#22797;&#36825;&#20123;&#22320;&#21306;&#65292;&#36825;&#26159;&#20013;&#22269;&#30340;&#20869;&#25919;&#65292; &#19981;&#23481;&#22806;&#22269;&#24178;&#28041;&#12290;



English translation:



> Declaration of the Government of the People's Republic of China on China's Territorial Sea &#65288;September 4&#65292; 1958&#65289;
> 
> &#12288;&#12288;The Government of the People's Republic of China declares&#65306;
> 
> &#12288;&#12288;1. The breadth of the territorial sea of the People's Republic of China shall be twelve nautical miles. This provision applies to all territories of the People's Republic of China including the Chinese mainland and its coastal islands&#65292; as well as Taiwan and its surrounding islands&#65292; the Penghu Islands&#65292; the Dongsha Islands&#65292; the Xisha Islands&#65292; the Zhongsha Islands&#65292; the Nansha Islands and all other islands belonging to China which are separated from the mainland and its coastal islands by the high seas.
> 
> 2. China's territorial sea along the mainland and its coastal islands takes as its baseline the line composed of the straight lines connecting bas-points on the mainland coast and on the outermost coastal islands&#65307; the water area extending twelve nautical miles outward from this baseline is China's territorial sea. The water areas inside the baseline&#65292; including Bohai Bayand the Chiung chow Straits&#65292; are Chinese inland waters. The islands inside the base line&#65292; including Tungyin Island&#65292; Kaoteng Island&#65292; the Matsu Islands&#65292; the Paichuan Islands&#65292; Wuchiu Island&#65292; the Grater And Lesser Quemoy Islands&#65292; Tatan Island&#65292; Erhtan Island and Tungting Island&#65292; are islands of the Chinese inland waters.
> 
> &#12288;&#12288;3. No foreign aircraft and no foreign vessels for military use may enter China's territorial sea and the air space above it without the permission of the Government of the People's Republic of China.
> 
> &#12288;&#12288;While navigation Chinese territorial sea&#65292; every foreign vessel must observe the relevant laws of the People's Republic of China and regulations of its government.
> 
> &#12288;&#12288;4. The principles provided in paragraphs &#65288;2&#65289; and &#65288;3&#65289; apply also to Taiwan and its surrounding islands&#65292; the Penghu Islands&#65292; the Dongsha Islands&#65292; the Xisha Islands&#65292; the Zhongsha Islands&#65292; the Nansha islands&#65292; and all other islands belonging to China.
> 
> &#12288;&#12288;The Taiwan and Penghu areas are still occupied by the United States armed force. This is anunlawful encroachment on the territorial integrity and sovereignty of the People's Republic of China. Taiwan&#65292; Penghu and such other areas are yet to be recovered&#65292; and the Government of the People's Republic of china has the right to recover these area by all suitable means at a suitable time. This is China's internal affair&#65292; in which no foreign interference is tolerated.




Vietnam respond:






Translation:



> The Democratic Republic of Vietnam's Government agreed to terms of China's public statment in 9-4-1958 about China's sea territory claim.The Democratic Republic of Vietnam Government respect it, and will direct all Agencies to absolute respect the 12 nautical miles sea territory of China in all matters with the People's Republic of China in the East Sea.
> 
> sincerely.
> 
> Hanoi 14-9-1958.



Well, it's not Republic of China document, but People's Republic of China.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Rechoice

Chinese can stop lying about nature of such letter from Noth VN PM.

following the Geneva Agreement 1954, Vietnam was divided in two states: North Vietnam and South Vietnam. China PRC and North Vietnam signed it. The Islands Paracel and Spratly belong to South Vietnam. North Vietnam didn't have right over Island of South Vietnam. In the same case, North Korea can not agree that Dokdo belong to Japan.

In the letter of North Vietnam PM stated that north Vietnam *agreed and respected 12 sea mile for coast-line only* and didn't mentioned about Islands (wording is "China's Territorial Sea" in China's Decraration" stated. . This letter is invalid for China PRC claim Islands of Vietnam today. In the past, Taiwan recognized South Vietnam as Independence state. 1956 when Taiwanese illegally occupied Itu Aba of South Vietnam, Republic of Vietnam has been protested this action.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Kolaps

Rechoice said:


> Chinese can stop lying about nature of such letter from Noth VN PM.
> 
> following the Geneva Agreement 1954, Vietnam was divided in two states: North Vietnam and South Vietnam. China PRC and North Vietnam signed it. The Islands Paracel and Spratly belong to South Vietnam. North Vietnam didn't have right over Island of South Vietnam. In the same case, North Korea can not agree that Dokdo belong to Japan.
> 
> In the letter of North Vietnam PM stated that north Vietnam *agreed and respected 12 sea mile for coast-line only* and didn't mentioned about Islands (wording is "China's Territorial Sea" in China's Decraration" stated. . This letter is invalid for China PRC claim Islands of Vietnam today. In the past, Taiwan recognized South Vietnam as Independence state. 1956 when Taiwanese illegally occupied Itu Aba of South Vietnam, Republic of Vietnam has been protested this action.



You mean Vietnam didn't exist before the united Vietnam? And all Vietnam claim before that is not valid?

Well, Republic of China is continuing exist since 1911.


----------



## Zero_wing

Kolaps said:


> You mean Vietnam didn't exist before the united Vietnam? And all Vietnam claim before that is not valid?
> 
> Well, Republic of China is continuing exist since 1911.



Sir it does not matter how old a country is we have rules here its called international law UNCLOS is one of them you can't claim all of the Islands and a whole sea too no country on earth has done that ad yet both you nationalist and communist insist to follow your own rules you people have no rights to say which is not valid because your claim are no valid in fact its not even logical and last time i check china is a land mass not archipelago so my country has great chance to claim ownership of some of the islands under our EZZ for Vietnam maybe some close to them but not all but for china and Taiwan obviously none one is a landmass which does not have huge EZZ or anything and historical rights is not evidence in international court and china has no jurisdiction over the area we did its just recently because china has build more ship and harass people in the are including mine Taiwan is just claiming no harassment from you guys thank god for that but still like china too far away and too impossible establish one and your political situation is problem too your the Republic of china not the Republic of Taiwan so your the real Government of China not People's republic so please solve that one first and then be more lawful and go to ITCLOS as mandated by International Law.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## gpit

Rechoice said:


> You lies.
> Full map of United Vietnam of Nguyen Dynasty from 1836 stating that Islands are part of Vietnam.



Don't forget Vietnam was part of China.

Thus everything Vietnam was China's, even your language in the map is Chinese.

Yes you divorced a few hundred years ago. *Do you have a divorce agreement* as to which asset belonging to whom/

No, you don't.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

Kolaps said:


> You mean Vietnam didn't exist before the united Vietnam? And all Vietnam claim before that is not valid?
> 
> Well, Republic of China is continuing exist since 1911.


\
Kid, base on your logic China doesnt exist up to now, only people are living in mainland and in Farmosa Island,



gpit said:


> Don't forget Vietnam was part of China.
> 
> Thus everything Vietnam was China's, even your language in the map is Chinese.
> 
> Yes you divorced a few hundred years ago. *Do you have a divorce agreement* as to which asset belonging to whom/
> 
> No, you don't.



Chinese aggressors invaded in to Vietnam and ran away, the invasion was finished. End.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Soryu

Kolaps said:


> Because 100 years ago, no one own these islands. And Republic of China was the first who claimed, while at the time, there was no modern country of Vietnam, Philippine and Malaysia.
> 
> If the recent established Vietnam and Philippine can easily claim islands that already belong to someone else, theoretically, based on this thinking, not just China, everyone can claim Hawaii as well and another islands. What a chaos.





Kolaps said:


> That is the main problem with Vietnam. Their claim is based on old territory from the Nguyen Dynasty, not modern territory from French colonial period.





Kolaps said:


> What about this:
> 
> *"Declaration of the Government of the People's Republic of China on China's Territorial Sea (September 4&#65292; 1958)"* in Chinese.
> 
> English translation:
> 
> Vietnam respond:
> 
> Translation:
> Well, it's not Republic of China document, but People's Republic of China.





Kolaps said:


> You mean Vietnam didn't exist before the united Vietnam? And all Vietnam claim before that is not valid?
> 
> Well, Republic of China is continuing exist since 1911.



Lady and gentleman, can you see it!? This is logic of mighty China, turn around with fake proof and pretend like innocent ( but - or stupid ).

_He said that none a country claim Islands, so China claim it ( and with that shjt, many Chinese said that their action - attack and robbery - just are defend their claim... LOL ) 

When you show him proof about our sovereignty, he spout out that "not modern territory from French colonial period"
When you show him proof about our sovereignty in "modern territory from French colonial period", he show the letter that he don't know "what is it" or pretend don't know about true of that paper.
When you explain about "the letter of North Vietnam PM", then he ignore about this and spoke out that "Vietnam didn't exist before the united Vietnam? And all Vietnam claim before that is not valid?"_

Hey *Kolaps*, are you really stupid!? Did you know that PRC claim Taiwan is a part can not be separated. And nobody made recognition ROC like a country.
Andso, when you said that stupid thing with your logic, you mean that 11-dots-line and ROC's claim are nothing connection with PRC.
So, what is base for PRC occupied any Islands in SCS!?

Is he really don't know or he just pretend about it!? Well, I guess you know......



gpit said:


> Don't forget Vietnam was part of China.
> 
> Thus everything Vietnam was China's, even your language in the map is Chinese.
> 
> Yes you divorced a few hundred years ago. *Do you have a divorce agreement* as to which asset belonging to whom/
> 
> No, you don't.



And this tro.ll don't spout out anything to correct his teammate but just turn another trash words with no value for anything. ( he talked in swanky way at before that he know many, many thing about China and VietNam - by read some books of China... LOL )

Some Chinese said that their don't perform "violent", but will perform "right way". This is "right way" of China, LOL.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Kolaps

Soryu said:


> Hey Kolaps, are you really stupid!? Did you know that PRC claim Taiwan is a part can not be separated. And nobody made recognition ROC like a country.
> 
> Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...na-sea-news-discussions-50.html#ixzz2FTywCcPU



So the nature of a real Vietnamese bully finally show up. Just because Republic of China is small now and in difficult position, so you took the opportunity to steal?

Isn't you guys always ranting about being bullied? Suddenly you guys talk different things? You guys are real criminal pretending as victims.

Just respect Republic of China, please.

............................................

Actually, we all need to grow up and be a mature man. We can't talk about historical territory anymore, based on historical kingdoms that is no longer exist. We should accepting the modern territory we get after European colonization.

China itself, lost a lot of land like outer Manchuria, outer Mongolia, and outer Xinjiang. SE Asia full of this kind of problems. But all people are accepting the reality and move on.


----------



## EastSea

Kolaps said:


> So the nature of a real Vietnamese bully finally show up. Just because Republic of China is small now and in difficult position, so you took the opportunity to steal?
> 
> Isn't you guys always ranting about being bullied? Suddenly you guys talk different things? You guys are real criminal pretending as victims.
> 
> Just respect Republic of China, please.
> 
> ............................................
> 
> Actually, we all need to grow up and be a mature man. We can't talk about historical territory anymore, based on historical kingdoms that is no longer exist. We should accepting the modern territory we get after European colonization.
> 
> China itself, lost a lot of land like outer Manchuria, outer Mongolia, and outer Xinjiang. SE Asia full of this kind of problems. But all people are accepting the reality and move on.



Good boy, after European colonization, Islands were still under official control of Nguyen Kingdom Vietnam's.
China PRC and ROC don't have right to Claim Islands and Sea wichs belong to Vietnam.


----------



## Type 055

China's military power - YouTube

War!War!!War!!! - YouTube


Any PLA fans, you will like these 2 videos.
Long live the People's Liberation Army!


----------



## EastSea

*Vietnam Military today.*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

gpit said:


> Don't forget Vietnam was part of China.
> 
> Thus everything Vietnam was China's, even your language in the map is Chinese.
> 
> Yes you divorced a few hundred years ago. *Do you have a divorce agreement* as to which asset belonging to whom/
> 
> No, you don't.




Following your logic, China was part of Japan. Thus everything China was Japan's. Where is your divorce agreement?

Imperial China illegally occupied ancient Vietnam by invasions and forced the Vietnamese to become sinicized. We kicked your a... out of Vietnam at the end of the day.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## gpit

Rechoice said:


> ...
> 
> 
> 
> Chinese aggressors invaded in to Vietnam and ran away, the invasion was finished. End.




Vietnam as a country was "made by China". Vietnam was founded by a Chinese called Zhao Tuo;

Read what your Vietnamese famous historian &#21555;&#22763;&#36899; said about him:


> &#36249;&#27494;&#24093;&#33021;*&#38283;&#25299;&#25105;&#36234;*&#65292;&#32780;&#33258;&#24093;&#20854;&#22283;&#65292;&#33287;&#28450;&#25239;&#34913;&#65292;&#26360;&#31281;&#32769;&#22827;&#65292;*&#28858;&#25105;&#36234;&#20513;&#22987;&#24093;&#29579;&#20043;&#22522;&#26989;*&#65292;&#20854;&#21151;&#21487;&#35586;&#22823;&#30691;&#12290;
> 
> &#22823;&#36234;&#21490;&#35352;&#20840;&#26360;/&#22806;&#32000;&#21367;&#20043;&#20108;



Briefly: *Wu Di Zhao created my Vietnam*, making himself Emperor of the country, against Han Dynasty, books call him "Old Guy", *laying the foundation for Vietnamese Dynasties*, the contribution is extraordinary.

If you want to make it in your way, it was Vietnamese that stole Vietnam from China.

Getting a bit history of yourself wouldn't kill you.


----------



## gpit

Viet said:


> Following your logic, China was part of Japan. Thus everything China was Japan's. Where is your divorce agreement?
> 
> Imperial China illegally occupied ancient Vietnam by invasions and forced the Vietnamese to become sinicized. We kicked your a... out of Vietnam at the end of the day.




Buddy, you are completely lost. 

1) *Vietnam was founded by a Chinese* called Zhao Tuo, China was *never *founded by any Japanese.

2) Vietnamese used Chinese language to record Vietnamese history, China never used Japanese language to record its history. Instead, Japanese used Chinese language to record its history.

3) Whole ancient Vietnam was once a part of China, japan only occupied 25% of China.

4) Japan finally signed the Instrument of Surrender Japanese Instrument of Surrender - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia to China and the Allies. China never surrendered to Vietnam. Instead *Vietnam surrendered many times to China*.

5) In Japanese occupation's hay-day, Japan occupied only for maximum 8 years of some pockets of China. *China had Vietnam for thousands of years*.

Your education system is thorough failure, not only in teaching you proper history, but also depriving your rational and logical thinking capability. You are next to mad man.


----------



## Rechoice

gpit said:


> Vietnam as a country was "made by China". Vietnam was founded by a Chinese called Zhao Tuo;
> 
> Read what your Vietnamese famous historian &#21555;&#22763;&#36899; said about him:
> 
> 
> Briefly: *Wu Di Zhao created my Vietnam*, making himself Emperor of the country, against Han Dynasty, books call him "Old Guy", *laying the foundation for Vietnamese Dynasties*, the contribution is extraordinary.
> 
> If you want to make it in your way, it was Vietnamese that stole Vietnam from China.
> 
> Getting a bit history of yourself wouldn't kill you.



You have wrongly translated comment of Ngo Sy Lien &#21555;&#22763;&#36899; in to English* &#25105;&#36234;* in his statement *our Viet means Nan Yue Guo the country Zhao Da created*,* including Guangdong and Guangxi.* 
If you (China) agree, we Vietnam can claim both Guangdong and Guangxi belong to Vietnam.

You can read more here.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

A quick but incomplete summary of &#8221;public-service&#8220; ships under construction or planned&#65306;

2X6800-tonne Large Salvage Vessels
4X5000-toone CMS Law Enforcement Vessels
4X4000-tonne CMS Salvage - Law Enforcement Vessels
2X4000-tonne CMS Scientific Research Vessels
10X3000-tonne CMS Law Enforcement Vessels
1X3000-tonne CFA Law Enforcement Vessel with 2 options
4X1000-tonne CFA Law Enforcement Vessels with 6 options
New project&#65306;2X10000-tonne plus CMS Law Enforcement Vessels&#65292; to be built at No. 436 Naval Shipyard in Shanghai

http://www.shipol.com.cn/xw/xcdd/247631.htm 

Note that the above is in addition to 32 1000-tonne&#12289;1500-tonne and 3000-tonne ships being built for CMS' provincial branches&#12290;


----------



## gpit

Rechoice said:


> You have wrongly translated comment of Ngo Sy Lien &#21555;&#22763;&#36899; in to English* &#25105;&#36234;* in his statement *our Viet means Nan Yue Guo the country Zhao Da created*,* including Guangdong and Guangxi.*
> If you (China) agree, we Vietnam can claim both Guangdong and Guangxi belong to Vietnam.
> 
> You can read more here.



Zhao Tuo, *as a Chinese*, rose up in China (of course) and settled down in Vietnam. So, according to your logic, Vietnam should be a part of China's Guangdong and/or Guangxi, or divided a piece for each.

BTW, you can claim whole China if you are a part of of China, more than just Guandong or Guandxi. You are allowed to rule the whole China. That may be a brighter picture for you whole Vietnamese than you now shrink in such a small corner...


----------



## EastSea

gpit said:


> Zhao Tuo, *as a Chinese*, rose up in China (of course) and settled down in Vietnam. So, according to your logic, Vietnam should be a part of China's Guangdong and/or Guangxi, or divided a piece for each.
> 
> BTW, you can claim whole China if you are a part of of China, more than just Guandong or Guandxi. You are allowed to rule the whole China. That may be a brighter picture for you whole Vietnamese than you now shrink in such a small corner...




Guangdong and Guangxi join to Viet, they can change his name to Vietxi and Vietdong. Nan Yue Guo will formed include three independence states same as ASEAN. All the policy line shall be made base on consensus.


----------



## djsjs

EastSea said:


> Guangdong and Guangxi join to Viet, they can change his name to Vietxi and Vietdong. Nan Yue Guo will formed include three independence states same as ASEAN. All the policy line shall be made base on consensus.



actually, &#36234;(we use &#31908; now) is abbreviation of Guangdong.


----------



## SinoChallenger

WPR Article | Philippines Running Out of Options in South China Sea Disputes

MANILA -- Earlier this year, the Philippines and China teetered on the brink of direct military confrontation over the Scarborough Shoal in the South China Sea, precipitating a series of high-stakes diplomatic exchanges that prevented open conflict but left the underlying dispute unresolved.

Although the episode jolted the Filipino leadership into recognizing the perils of armed brinkmanship with China, Manila&#8217;s subsequent diplomatic approach to the conflict has achieved little. After almost seven months of intensive diplomatic engagement with China and the states of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN), regional maritime tensions are still on the rise. Now, facing a potentially more assertive China under a new leadership, and in the absence of an effective regional approach to the ongoing territorial disputes, the Philippines seems to be running out of diplomatic options.


----------



## cirr

CCG&#65288;China Coast Guard&#65289;35003 is on active service&#65306;


----------



## EastSea

self deleted.


----------



## cirr

"MSA 21" has just been reassigned to the South China Sea:


----------



## Zero_wing

SinoChallenger said:


> WPR Article | Philippines Running Out of Options in South China Sea Disputes
> 
> MANILA -- Earlier this year, the Philippines and China teetered on the brink of direct military confrontation over the Scarborough Shoal in the South China Sea, precipitating a series of high-stakes diplomatic exchanges that prevented open conflict but left the underlying dispute unresolved.
> 
> Although the episode jolted the Filipino leadership into recognizing the perils of armed brinkmanship with China, Manilas subsequent diplomatic approach to the conflict has achieved little. After almost seven months of intensive diplomatic engagement with China and the states of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN), regional maritime tensions are still on the rise. Now, facing a potentially more assertive China under a new leadership, and in the absence of an effective regional approach to the ongoing territorial disputes, the Philippines seems to be running out of diplomatic options.



Running out or gain some result and have you taken your meds?


----------



## beijingwalker

China to Invest $1.6 Billion on Disputed Islands, Herald Reports
By Bloomberg News - 2012-12-25T02:54:41Z



> China plans to spend more than $1 billion building an airport, piers and other infrastructure on islands at the center of a territorial dispute with Vietnam and the Philippines, the 21st Century Business Herald reported.
> 
> The central government approved plans to invest 10 billion yuan ($1.6 billion) in infrastructure for areas administered by the city of Sansha, the newspaper reported today, citing Jiang Dingzhi, governor of Hainan province, which holds jurisdiction over the city. China set up Sansha in June to oversee the Paracel and Spratly islands, parts of which are also occupied or claimed by Vietnam, the Philippines, Taiwan, Malaysia and Brunei.
> 
> Tensions between China and its neighbors in the South China Sea have spurred concern that competing territorial claims will disrupt economic relations between the Association of Southeast Asian Nations and the groups largest trading partner. A dispute over control of the Diaoyu, or Senkaku, islands in the East China Sea is also weighing on trade between China and Japan.
> 
> The funds for Sansha will also be spent on marine law enforcement and ocean fisheries, according to the 21st Century Herald, which is based in the southern city of Guangzhou. Construction of some facilities has already started, the newspaper reported, without giving more detail.
> 
> Vietnam Ousted
> 
> Sansha is located on Yongxing, the largest island in the Paracels, with an area of 2.1 square kilometers (0.8 square miles). China ousted Vietnam from the 30 islets and reefs that comprise the Paracels, known as Xisha in China and Hoang Sa in Vietnam, in a 1974 battle that killed 71 soldiers.
> 
> Sanshas immediate work is for airports, ports, piers and other important infrastructure, as well as law enforcement vessels, supply ships and other projects to be established, Hainan Governor Jiang was quoted as saying by the newspaper. In the long term, we need to implement a platform for Sanshas development.


----------



## beijingwalker

$1 billion on a small island..?what construction pojects does the government want to build there,must be made of gold..


----------



## cirr

China's Hainan Island build *one thousand one hundred and eighty eight* 850-tonne standard displacement steel fishing vessels&#65306;

º£ÄÏ£º³ËÊÆÔì´ó´¬ Ñï·«´³Éîº£

plus two 1500-tonne transport ships&#65292;three 3000-tonne transport ships and one 6000-tonne supply ship to go with the fishing fleet&#12290; 



Oh Mighty&#65292;the South China Sea is fast becoming a fish pond&#12290;

Oh Mighty&#65292;the South China Sea is fast becoming a fish pond&#12290;


----------



## terranMarine

beijingwalker said:


> $1 billion on a small island..?what construction pojects does the government want to build there,must be made of gold..



Casino's made of gold?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## KRAIT

beijingwalker said:


> $1 billion on a small island..?what construction pojects does the government want to build there,must be made of gold..


Holiday destination. Rich people like to spend money on new places with privacy after all.


----------



## EastSea

cirr said:


> China's Hainan Island build *one thousand one hundred and eighty eight* 850-tonne standard displacement steel fishing vessels&#65306;
> 
> º£ÄÏ£º³ËÊÆÔì´ó´¬ Ñï·«´³Éîº£
> 
> plus two 1500-tonne transport ships&#65292;three 3000-tonne transport ships and one 6000-tonne supply ship to go with the fishing fleet&#12290;
> 
> 
> 
> Oh Mighty&#65292;the South China Sea is fast becoming a fish pond&#12290;
> 
> Oh Mighty&#65292;the South China Sea is fast becoming a fish pond&#12290;



Who get benefit ? The corruption group made a lobby (guan xi) for such hilarious investment can take a money first.


----------



## cirr

EastSea said:


> Who get benefit ? The corruption group made a lobby (guan xi) for such hilarious investment can take a money first.



These vessels are bigger and stronger than your tiny and pathetic gun boats&#12290;

These 850-tonne beauties of steel are gonna give you a run for your money. Not?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## dunhill

Let me be clear for all Chinese on high hope and wishful thinking.

1. If you think you had all Islands been stolen from Viet Nam that will save then dream on. Cause China already has Viet Nam more than 1000 years then what? Viet Nam still take it back from time to time and piece by pieces.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ahfatzia

A satellite photo of *Yongxing Island &#27704;&#20852;&#23707;*







Closer look






The future


----------



## ChinaToday

dunhill said:


> Let me be clear for all Chinese on high hope and wishful thinking.
> 
> 1. If you think you had all Islands been stolen from Viet Nam that will save then dream on. Cause China already has Viet Nam more than 1000 years then what? Viet Nam still take it back from time to time and piece by pieces.




please come to visit our island you are welcome


----------



## ChinaToday

very good news indeed congrats to china


----------



## Sasquatch

*Stick to the topic I have already given infractions and deleted spam. *


----------



## jhungary

cirr said:


> These vessels are bigger and stronger than your tiny and pathetic gun boats&#12290;
> 
> *These 850-tonne beauties of steel are gonna give you a run for your money&#65292;not*&#12290;



You just negate your sentence in case you have not notice.

What you said mean your ship will not make vietnamese ship a run for their money.........You are hinting that your ship are inferior.........

Usually when you put the not behind a whole sentence mean what you just said will never happen or not true........

I am just pointing out this, no offence intented.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

cirr said:


> These vessels are bigger and stronger than your tiny and pathetic gun boats&#12290;
> 
> These 850-tonne beauties of steel are gonna give you a run for your money&#65292;not&#12290;



850 tone is useless in area Islands with rocks under sea level. 



ChinaToday said:


> please come to visit our island you are welcome



Robber has his big mouth.


----------



## cirr

The production of Type 022 resumes?







Will they be deployed in the South China Sea together with a couple of "mother" ships? 

The Pond will soon be teeming with Chinese ships, so many Chinese ships that there will be no room left for what you know.


----------



## NiceGuy

KRAIT said:


> Holiday destination. Rich people like to spend money on new places with privacy after all.


Rich men won't visit those disputed isls bcz they dont wanna die. Its just a waste to invest 1 bil there.China can't even put any oil rig in disputed zone so far,so left alone they so called casino and resort.


----------



## EastSea

cirr said:


> The production of Type 022 resumes?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Will they be deployed in the South China Sea together with a couple of "mother" ships?
> 
> The Pond will soon be teeming with Chinese ships, so many Chinese ships that there will be no room left for what you know.



They occupied room and places by ports first. pls to go on but have to be respective to rule of international law for free navigation. china can spend money for benzin for idiot travelling, but don't violate other country territory.
useless big toy.


----------



## NiceGuy

EastSea said:


> They occupied room and places by ports first. pls to go on but have to be respective to rule of international law for free navigation. china can spend money for benzin for idiot travelling, but don't violate other country territory.
> useless big toy.


Its a waste to talk with them abt international law coz they only use jungle law to rule their country and treat their neighbours.just simply sink their ship and start a new war to teach them a lesson again.thats how to make them listen to us

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

Hope the Chinese still remember the agreement and keep their words!




> *China, Vietnam vow to solve South China Sea issue on basis of consensus*
> _English.news.cn 2012-09-20 21:38:28	_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Chinese Vice President Xi Jinping (R) meets with Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung as they attend the 9th China-ASEAN (Association of Southeast Asian Nations) Expo in Nanning, capital of south China's Guangxi Zhuang Autonomous Region, Sept. 20, 2012. (Xinhua/Xie Huanchi)
> _
> NANNING, Sept. 20 (Xinhua) -- China and Vietnam agreed on Thursday to implement a consensus reached previously by the leaders of both countries regarding the South China Sea so as to solve the issue via negotiations and dialogue.
> 
> In his meeting with Vietnam Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung in south China's city of Nanning, Vice President Xi Jinping said issues regarding the South China Sea do not represent the entirety of China-Vietnam relations, but will affect their ties if improperly dealt with.
> 
> Both leaders have reached many important agreements regarding the sea and the two countries should earnestly implement them, said Xi.
> 
> "This is also vital for the smooth development of bilateral cooperation," said the vice president.
> 
> Echoing Xi's remarks, Dung, who is in China for the ninth China-ASEAN Expo (CAEXPO), said Vietnam and China should conscientiously implement the consensus, despite the fact that the two countries hold different views on the South China Sea.
> 
> *The issue should be properly solved through negotiation and dialogue from a strategic height and in the spirit of brotherhood and comradeship*, said Dung, adding that Vietnam will not let the issue affect the overall state of bilateral ties.
> 
> Xi said China hopes to maintain close communication with Vietnam during an east Asia summit to be held later this year so as to jointly promote east Asian cooperation.
> 
> Dung said Vietnam will always remember and appreciate the valuable assistance provided by China, adding that it is the top priority of Vietnam's foreign policy to develop cooperation with China.
> 
> Vietnam is ready to exert all its efforts to cherish and safeguard its traditional friendship with China, Dung said.


----------



## djsjs

Viet said:


> Hope the Chinese still remember the agreement and keep their words!



*Dung said Vietnam will always remember and appreciate the valuable assistance provided by China, adding that it is the top priority of Vietnam's foreign policy to develop cooperation with China.
*
if only it is not the biggest lie in the world


----------



## EastSea

djsjs said:


> *Dung said Vietnam will always remember and appreciate the valuable assistance provided by China, adding that it is the top priority of Vietnam's foreign policy to develop cooperation with China.
> *
> if only it is not the biggest lie in the world



Whos have been living in Vietnam from time of 1975-1990, Vietnam was facing with embargo of US and wars of China against Vietnam (Polpot and border war 1979) can understand true face of China. Who is biggest liar in the world ? China !


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Philippines shores up Spratly Islands' defence - YouTube

The Philippines have my support


----------



## hoangsa

The world support which country ?

This time... No nation support China. Lonely nation. How powerful US is ! but they still need and do many things to get agreement from other nations. That is the right way to last long. China is still aiming powerful, not really powerful yet...but acting like evil...become lonely nation. Up and down soon.


----------



## djsjs

hoangsa said:


> The world support which country ?


most of the countries support PRC,others support ROC.


----------



## Sasquatch

*Taiwan to start oil exploration in S China Sea*



Taiwan will launch oil exploration efforts in waters off Itu Aba Island (Taiping Island, &#22826;&#24179;&#23798 next year, in a move that is likely to raise tensions with other claimants to a series of islets in the South China Sea.

During a meeting at the legislature in Taipei yesterday, Bureau of Energy officials confirmed that the Ministry of Economic Affairs&#8217; Bureau of Mines, in cooperation with CPC Corp, Taiwan (CPC, &#21488;&#28771;&#20013;&#27833, would send ships to waters near Itu Aba to conduct exploration for potential oil resources next year.

Bureau of Energy Director-General Jerry Ou (&#27472;&#22025;&#29790 told the Foreign Affairs and National Defense Committee that a monthly budget of NT$17 million (US$583,670) would be allocated to fund the efforts.

Ou said that as Taiwan is almost entirely dependent on imports for its oil supply, it was imperative for the nation to diversify its energy sources.

Though unproven, the South China Sea is believed to contain important oil and gas resources. Taiwan, China, Vietnam, the Philippines, Malaysia and Brunei all lay claim to parts of the area.

Administered by Taiwan, Itu Aba is the largest islet in the disputed Spratly Islands (Nansha Islands, &#21335;&#27801;&#32676;&#23798. It lies about 1,400km from Greater Kaohsiung.

In 2008, Taiwan finished constrcution of a 1,150m airstrip on the island. Earlier this year, the Coast Guard Administration &#8212; which is mandated with defending sovereignty over the island &#8212; augmented its equipment on Itu Aba with a supply of T63 120mm mortar systems and L/60 40mm anti-aircraft guns, sparking protests among other claimants, including Vietnam and the Philippines.

Asking for a progress report, Chinese Nationalist Party (KMT) Legislator Lin Yu-fang (&#26519;&#37057;&#26041, a strong supporter of Taiwan playing a more muscular role in the area, was assured that the plan had advanced past the &#8220;paperwork phase&#8221; and would be initiated as early as next month.

It has yet to be confirmed whether the exploration boats will be accompanied by coast guard vessels.

KMT Legislator Chen Cheng-hsiang (&#38515;&#37806;&#28248 said the government should actively mine the waters near the Spratlys and the Pratas Islands (Dongsha Islands, &#26481;&#27801;&#32676;&#23798 and establish a forward base in the area to oversee energy, fishing and environmental protection.

He also said a multilateral center should be established to lower the risks of sovereignty disputes with other countries.

On March 22, two coast guard speedboats were dispatched to intercept a pair of Vietnamese patrol vessels that had entered waters near Taiping, prompting the Ministry of Foreign Affairs to file a protest with Hanoi.

Two other ships entered waters near the island on March 26. The coast guard subsequently denied reports that shots had been fired during the incident.

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2012/12/28/2003551168


----------



## EastSea

*Vietnam ask Taiwan to cancel military exercises in Spratly (Truong Sa)*

Posted by admin on Aug 23, 2012 | 1 Comment







Ministry of Foreign Affairs today opposed the plan of Taiwan-fire exercises on the island of Itu Aba, Truong Sa, and requested to cancel the activities violate the sovereignty of Vietnam over Spratly Islands.

http://tinmoidoday.com/viet-nam-yeu-cau-dai-loan-huy-tap-tran-o-truong-sa/
.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ahfatzia

*Philippines objects to new Chinese gunboat in South China Sea*






_Chinese surveillance ships off huangyan_


MANILA: *The Philippines* on Friday said it *"strongly objects"* to *China's deployment* *of a new patrol vessel in the South China Sea*, where the two countries have a seething maritime territorial dispute.

Such patrols will not boost China's claim to the disputed territory where the two countries have had a standoff since April, Department of Foreign Affairs spokesman Raul Hernandez said in a statement.

*"The Philippines strongly objects to the Chinese patrol of Philippine maritime domain in the West Philippine Sea," *the statement said, using the local name for the South China Sea.

It called on China to *respect the country's "territorial sovereignty and EEZ"*, referring to the Philippines' 200-nautical-mile exclusive economic zone.

China's official Xinhua news agency said on Thursday *an ocean-going patrol vessel equipped with a helipad would be deployed to the South China Sea, the first of its kind in the area.
*
In late November, China said it had granted its border patrol police the right to board and turn away foreign ships entering the disputed waters, raising fears of a confrontation.

Both the Philippines and China have overlapping claims over parts of the South China Sea, a major shipping route that is also believed to hold vast mineral resources.

Tensions between China and the Philippines have risen in the area since April after ships from both countries had a standoff over a rock outcropping known as the Scarborough Shoal.

While the Philippines has withdrawn its ships, it says China reneged on an agreement to pull out its own vessels.

China claims the shoal as well as nearly all of the South China Sea, even waters close to the coasts of neighbouring countries. The Philippines says the shoal is well within its EEZ.

Philippines objects to new Chinese gunboat in South China Sea - Channel NewsAsia

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

djsjs said:


> most of the countries support PRC,others support ROC.



can you pls be more precise? which country supports your claim in the SCS?


----------



## Knight of Tang

I've never seen such a mindless shxthead from jungles itself acting like human beings and talking 'bout "international law" while spraying shxts like "start a new war", what kind of creatures it would be I'm really curious. 
This...thing even expects China to "listen to" it! What a bloody joke. We can hardly hear what you're barking, not to even speak of "listen to".
STFU and don't ever disgrace your own nation and blemish your flag! 


NiceGuy said:


> Its a waste to talk with them abt international law coz they only use jungle law to rule their country and treat their neighbours.just simply sink their ship and start a new war to teach them a lesson again.thats how to make them listen to us


----------



## Knight of Tang

Does the territory claim need to be supported by a third party? 



Viet said:


> can you pls be more precise? which country supports your claim in the SCS?


----------



## Knight of Tang

What agreement you're referring to? I wonder if you people read 'bout this article carefully and see what your leader was saying?
Those words like "brotherhood" and "comradeship" sounds really sarcastic to me now!
Actually, as a traditional Chinese, I never had such a great hostility against vietnam before I join this forum and see many vietnamese' resentfulness against China. According to what I was taught as a child, and in our media, vietnam always showed up as a friend that share the similar ideology with us in spite of that war (very little advocacy of that actually), at least not the bloody enemy(I bet most of the Chinese feel the same as I do)! 
But now I will update my thoughts towards this entire nation and definitely tell my friend 'bout how you see about us. Some of your posts are really hard to accept, especially that "NiceGuy" Shxthead, he's totally out of his mind... 


Viet said:


> Hope the Chinese still remember the agreement and keep their words!


----------



## Rechoice

Knight of Tang said:


> What agreement you're referring to? I wonder if you people read 'bout this article carefully and see what your leader was saying?
> Those words like "brotherhood" and "comradeship" sounds really sarcastic to me now!
> Actually, as a traditional Chinese, I never had such a great hostility against vietnam before I join this forum and see many vietnamese' resentfulness against China. According to what I was taught as a child, and in our media, vietnam always showed up as a friend that share the similar ideology with us in spite of that war (very little advocacy of that actually), at least not the bloody enemy(I bet most of the Chinese feel the same as I do)!
> But now I will update my thoughts towards this entire nation and definitely tell my friend 'bout how you see about us. Some of your posts are really hard to accept, especially that "NiceGuy" Shxthead, he's totally out of his mind...



Global Time news of CPC reported that, in China is 95% of netizens agree to use force to rob the rest of Islands of Vietnam. You can read posts of SinoChallenger .


----------



## cirr

&#8220;CMS 5001&#8221; launched at WC on 28.12.2012&#65306;


----------



## cirr

China to upgrade the State Oceanic Administration to the Ministry of Oceanic Affairs&#65306;

?????????????????????_????_???


----------



## Rechoice

cirr said:


> China to upgrade the State Oceanic Administration to the Ministry of Oceanic Affairs&#65306;
> 
> ?????????????????????_????_???



so that China can claim hundred-dash sea territory include all Pacific Ocean.


----------



## WuMaoCleverbot

*China, the professional squatter in Southeast Asia*
GOTCHA By Jarius Bondoc (The Philippine Star) | Updated December 31, 2012 - 12:00am

Professional squatters usually work in syndicate. Using fake titles and maps they grab large tracts of land and waterways from real owners. For semblance of possession they build fences and passageways, workplaces and shelters. They refuse appeals to prove their rights in court, for they know they would lose against the true owners. Instead they employ armed bands to enforce their land-grab, and publicists to distort the truth. Respecting no one, they flout the law and public outrage. They delay inevitable eviction with blarney or harassment. Meantime, they profit from the illegal takeover, by directly exploiting resources or by subletting.

There are a billion squatters worldwide, mostly penurious and landless, and only a handful of land-grab syndicates. The biggest of the latter is China&#8217;s dictatorial party.

China uses baseless ancient rights and maps to lay claim to the entire South China Sea and scores of islets, shoals, and reefs. Such claim goes against geologic science and international law, particularly freedom of navigation. But China is unperturbed. It also ignores verified historical accounts and maps, particularly of Vietnam and the Philippines, about the Paracel and the Spratly archipelagoes and landforms abutting their shores. It flouts the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea, even if it is a signatory, by disrespecting the 200-mile exclusive economic zones of the two countries, and of Malaysia and Brunei.

*China has built military facilities in three of the islets and reefs, feigning at first to be doing so for fishermen of all nations*. In pretense of true ownership, its navy patrols the seawaters, as if that would make genuine its unfounded nine-dash line map. Recently it clashed with Vietnamese sailors in the Paracels, and harassed Filipino marine surveyors and fishermen in the Recto Bank and Panatag Shoal.

The Philippines has challenged China to settle the claim once and for all before the International Tribunal on the Law of the Sea. But China refuses. It knows it has no chance of winning. That&#8217;s why it uses instead armed might and guile, including putting up traitorous public officials and pseudo-journalists as spokesmen. Because the Philippines refuses to be cowered or fooled, China also employs trade and tourism embargoes. It plays deaf to world opinion about its undiplomatic breaks of UN pacts, and mobilizes vassal states to thwart those that stand up to it.

China chatters about a supposed peaceful economic rise and joint use of the disputed area. But all that aims only to avoid peaceful resolution. One cannot expect peace from an avaricious bully-squatter whose real intent is to build an invisible Great Wall across the Pacific Ocean.

Like a true professional squatter, China is ravaging the sea like there&#8217;s no tomorrow. Fake owners think not of conserving resources in the grabbed territory. China scours the sea of marine life, even endangered species, for food and ornaments. It is slurping petroleum from offshore wells close to Vietnam, and has leased out parts of these to privateers. Nonstop too is the search for undersea minerals and rare-earth metals.

http://www.philstar.com/opinion/2012-12-31/891676/china-professional-squatter-southeast-asia

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Viet

WuMaoCleverbot said:


> *China, the professional squatter in Southeast Asia*
> GOTCHA By Jarius Bondoc (The Philippine Star) | Updated December 31, 2012 - 12:00am
> 
> China, the professional squatter in Southeast Asia | Opinion, News, The Philippine Star | philstar.com



The Philippines must send more patrol vessels and planes to counter the assertive Chinese.
Words alone never impress them!


----------



## djsjs

Viet said:


> The Philippines must send more patrol vessels and planes to counter the assertive Chinese.
> Words alone never impress them!


Even so, Vietnam is the country most likely to be punished ,for you are more guilty than Filipinos.
btw,it looks like you've received your year-end awards from your Propaganda Department and started to work again.


----------



## Knight of Tang

I'm really curious about where did you find your confidence to say those provocative words, sounds like you can even "*impress*" us with more than your words...your leaders won't be that sure I'm afraid...


Viet said:


> The Philippines must send more patrol vessels and planes to counter the assertive Chinese.
> Words alone never impress them!


----------



## cirr

More and bigger CMS vessels are on their way&#65306;

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ahfatzia

*China says "board and search" sea rules limited to Hainan coast*


BEIJING - *Contentious new rules allowing Chinese police to board vessels deemed breaking the law off the southern island of Hainan are only valid within a narrow coastal zone, the government said on Monday, seeking to calm regional tensions.*

The regulations, which go into effect in the new year, sparked widespread concern in Southeast Asia that China was taking a tougher line on the disputed South China Sea, where several nations are involved in a bitter territorial dispute.

Worries were compounded as Hainan is technically the province which has jurisdiction over China's extensive South China Seas claims, raising the possibility Chinese police could board ships anywhere in those waters.

But Chinese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying said the scope of Hainan's rules, announced by state media in November, represented no change from regulations passed in 1999 *limiting enforcement to within 12 nautical miles of Hainan's coast.*

*"What I want to stress is that these local rules were formulated by the Hainan provincial government to strengthen border controls over the coast and maritime management,"* Hua told a daily news briefing.

*"Their aim is to tackle crime at sea and maintain peace on the seas. There is no change to the scope of how these rules are used compared to the 1999 rules,"* she added, without elaborating.

It is the first time the Chinese government has provided a detailed explanation of where the rules would be applied.

Southeast Asia's top diplomat had warned that they could spark naval clashes and hurt the region's economy, while the US government said it was seeking clarification.

China is in an increasingly angry dispute with neighbours including the Philippines, Taiwan, Vietnam, Brunei and Malaysia over claims to parts of the potentially oil and gas-rich South China Sea.

China lays claim to almost the whole of the sea, which is criss-crossed by crucial shipping lanes.

Hua repeated that the Chinese government's stance had not changed, and that it advocated resolving the issue by talks between the claimant nations.

"I think that all sides should adopt a fair and objective attitude towards this and be constructive and show goodwill towards the reading of these rules."

China says "board and search" sea rules limited to Hainan coast


Just as I though, local officials misinterpretation of the rules.


----------



## Knight of Tang

That's what we called "*impressive*"


cirr said:


> More and bigger CMS vessels are on their way&#65306;



Sounds a little bit disappointing but since Hainan can legislate its local rule, so does Sansha...I hope it's just a matter of time.


ahfatzia said:


> *China says "board and search" sea rules limited to Hainan coast*
> 
> 
> BEIJING - *Contentious new rules allowing Chinese police to board vessels deemed breaking the law off the southern island of Hainan are only valid within a narrow coastal zone, the government said on Monday, seeking to calm regional tensions.*
> 
> The regulations, which go into effect in the new year, sparked widespread concern in Southeast Asia that China was taking a tougher line on the disputed South China Sea, where several nations are involved in a bitter territorial dispute.
> 
> Worries were compounded as Hainan is technically the province which has jurisdiction over China's extensive South China Seas claims, raising the possibility Chinese police could board ships anywhere in those waters.
> 
> But Chinese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying said the scope of Hainan's rules, announced by state media in November, represented no change from regulations passed in 1999 *limiting enforcement to within 12 nautical miles of Hainan's coast.*
> 
> *"What I want to stress is that these local rules were formulated by the Hainan provincial government to strengthen border controls over the coast and maritime management,"* Hua told a daily news briefing.
> 
> *"Their aim is to tackle crime at sea and maintain peace on the seas. There is no change to the scope of how these rules are used compared to the 1999 rules,"* she added, without elaborating.
> 
> It is the first time the Chinese government has provided a detailed explanation of where the rules would be applied.
> 
> Southeast Asia's top diplomat had warned that they could spark naval clashes and hurt the region's economy, while the US government said it was seeking clarification.
> 
> China is in an increasingly angry dispute with neighbours including the Philippines, Taiwan, Vietnam, Brunei and Malaysia over claims to parts of the potentially oil and gas-rich South China Sea.
> 
> China lays claim to almost the whole of the sea, which is criss-crossed by crucial shipping lanes.
> 
> Hua repeated that the Chinese government's stance had not changed, and that it advocated resolving the issue by talks between the claimant nations.
> 
> "I think that all sides should adopt a fair and objective attitude towards this and be constructive and show goodwill towards the reading of these rules."
> 
> China says "board and search" sea rules limited to Hainan coast
> 
> 
> Just as I though, local officials misinterpretation of the rules.


----------



## hoangsa

> But Chinese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying said the scope of Hainan's rules, announced by state media in November, represented no change from regulations passed in 1999 limiting enforcement to within 12 nautical miles of Hainan's coast.



just like a little boy announcement...yesterday say that, today say this, tomorrow say another...ha...ha...you announce whatever you like...people do not care...just because your announcement is not reliable.

If you want to a great nation with respect from others...firstly act & annouce like a gentlemen...please!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Knight of Tang

The problem is a gentleman can never communicate efficiently enough with a barbarian...
Your broken words made a great illustration of what I said above. Hard time in US hmm?


hoangsa said:


> just like a little boy announcement...yesterday say that, today say this, tomorrow say another...ha...ha...you announce whatever you like...people do not care...just because your announcement is not reliable.
> 
> If you want to a great nation with respect from others...firstly act & annouce like a gentlemen...please!


----------



## WuMaoCleverbot

*&#8216;Chinese warship harassed Phl boats off Kalayaan&#8217;*
By Jaime Laude (The Philippine Star) | Updated January 1, 2013 - 12:00am

MANILA, Philippines - A Chinese amphibious warship twice harassed a four-boat convoy of Kalayaan town while delivering food and other household supplies to the inhabitants of Pag-Asa Island last Oct. 27, according to the mayor of the island town.

Mayor Eugenio Bito-onon, who recently returned to mainland Palawan from the island town, said a silver gray warship with bow No. 995 directly sailed towards and crossed the path of M/T Queen Seagull, a 200-ton vessel owned and operated by the local government of Kalayaan island town in the Spratlys.

The vessel, a cargo and supply ship, is being used to haul supplies from mainland Palawan to the civilian residents in Pag-Asa island, the seat of the Kalayaan island municipality that comprises the country&#8217;s seven regime of islands and two reefs in the hotly-contested region.

Bito-onon said their boats were already five hours away from Pag-Asa island after spending four nights and four days in Lawak island due to bad weather.

The convoy was with 12 Vietnamese fishing boats, a Chinese aquarium ship and four Filipino fishing boats from Batangas and General Santos City when the Chinese warship cut the path of M/T Seagull, which was then towing a utility boat with civilian passengers followed by a twin-engine motorboat that was also towing another utility boat loaded with fishing gear for local fishermen in Pag-Asa.

&#8220;We thought that Chinese warship was just heading back to Hainan from one of their occupied islands, as it was sailing north coming from southern part of the Spratlys. But we saw it again heading back towards our position, threatening to ram the utility boat being towed by M/T Seagull Queen, triggering panic among the civilians passengers,&#8221; Bito-onon told The STAR.

http://www.philstar.com/headlines/2013/01/01/892056/chinese-warship-harassed-phl-boats-kalayaan


----------



## Viet

djsjs said:


> Even so, Vietnam is the country most likely to be punished ,for you are more guilty than Filipinos.
> btw,it looks like you've received your year-end awards from* your Propaganda Department* and started to work again.



Your guess is wrong. I work for my own company, not for the government. I am currently a holiday trip through Vietnam. On the streets I can see many banners voicing for a strong defence in the SCS. Talking seriously, the Philippines shall increase their defence spending to better protect their assets and act more agressively in the SCS, otherwise they lose.

As for Vietnam, the first priority is to strengthen the Navy, too.



cirr said:


> More and bigger CMS vessels are on their way&#65306;



do you work for the government?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

Knight of Tang said:


> What agreement you're referring to? I wonder if you people read 'bout this article carefully and see what your leader was saying?


the agreement that both sides want to work on a peaceful solution, based on consensus.



> Those words like "brotherhood" and "comradeship" sounds really sarcastic to me now!


well, they were indeed comrades in the wars against France and America. Nothing is sarcastic.
Basically when Vietnamese leaders visit China, they always mention the good side of China. They surely know the bad side of China, too, though they never say in public.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## SinoChallenger

WuMaoCleverbot said:


> *&#8216;Chinese warship harassed Phl boats off Kalayaan&#8217;*
> By Jaime Laude (The Philippine Star) | Updated January 1, 2013 - 12:00am
> 
> MANILA, Philippines - A Chinese amphibious warship twice harassed a four-boat convoy of Kalayaan town while delivering food and other household supplies to the inhabitants of Pag-Asa Island last Oct. 27, according to the mayor of the island town.
> 
> Mayor Eugenio Bito-onon, who recently returned to mainland Palawan from the island town, said a silver gray warship with bow No. 995 directly sailed towards and crossed the path of M/T Queen Seagull, a 200-ton vessel owned and operated by the local government of Kalayaan island town in the Spratlys.
> 
> The vessel, a cargo and supply ship, is being used to haul supplies from mainland Palawan to the civilian residents in Pag-Asa island, the seat of the Kalayaan island municipality that comprises the country&#8217;s seven regime of islands and two reefs in the hotly-contested region.
> 
> Bito-onon said their boats were already five hours away from Pag-Asa island after spending four nights and four days in Lawak island due to bad weather.
> 
> The convoy was with 12 Vietnamese fishing boats, a Chinese aquarium ship and four Filipino fishing boats from Batangas and General Santos City when the Chinese warship cut the path of M/T Seagull, which was then towing a utility boat with civilian passengers followed by a twin-engine motorboat that was also towing another utility boat loaded with fishing gear for local fishermen in Pag-Asa.
> 
> &#8220;We thought that Chinese warship was just heading back to Hainan from one of their occupied islands, as it was sailing north coming from southern part of the Spratlys. But we saw it again heading back towards our position, threatening to ram the utility boat being towed by M/T Seagull Queen, triggering panic among the civilians passengers,&#8221; Bito-onon told The STAR.
> 
> http://www.philstar.com/headlines/2013/01/01/892056/chinese-warship-harassed-phl-boats-kalayaan


Our amphibious warship is preparing to take back our Nansha Islands from illegal Pinoy squatters.




EastSea said:


> *Vietnam ask Taiwan to cancel military exercises in Spratly (Truong Sa)*
> 
> Posted by admin on Aug 23, 2012 | 1 Comment
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ministry of Foreign Affairs today opposed the plan of Taiwan-fire exercises on the island of Itu Aba, Truong Sa, and requested to cancel the activities violate the sovereignty of Vietnam over Spratly Islands.
> 
> http://tinmoidoday.com/viet-nam-yeu-cau-dai-loan-huy-tap-tran-o-truong-sa/
> .


Taiwan's navy can take on Vietnam anytime and anywhere, so Vietnam is afraid.




ahfatzia said:


> *Philippines objects to new Chinese gunboat in South China Sea*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Chinese surveillance ships off huangyan_
> 
> 
> MANILA: *The Philippines* on Friday said it *"strongly objects"* to *China's deployment* *of a new patrol vessel in the South China Sea*, where the two countries have a seething maritime territorial dispute.
> 
> Such patrols will not boost China's claim to the disputed territory where the two countries have had a standoff since April, Department of Foreign Affairs spokesman Raul Hernandez said in a statement.
> 
> *"The Philippines strongly objects to the Chinese patrol of Philippine maritime domain in the West Philippine Sea," *the statement said, using the local name for the South China Sea.
> 
> It called on China to *respect the country's "territorial sovereignty and EEZ"*, referring to the Philippines' 200-nautical-mile exclusive economic zone.
> 
> China's official Xinhua news agency said on Thursday *an ocean-going patrol vessel equipped with a helipad would be deployed to the South China Sea, the first of its kind in the area.
> *
> In late November, China said it had granted its border patrol police the right to board and turn away foreign ships entering the disputed waters, raising fears of a confrontation.
> 
> Both the Philippines and China have overlapping claims over parts of the South China Sea, a major shipping route that is also believed to hold vast mineral resources.
> 
> Tensions between China and the Philippines have risen in the area since April after ships from both countries had a standoff over a rock outcropping known as the Scarborough Shoal.
> 
> While the Philippines has withdrawn its ships, it says China reneged on an agreement to pull out its own vessels.
> 
> China claims the shoal as well as nearly all of the South China Sea, even waters close to the coasts of neighbouring countries. The Philippines says the shoal is well within its EEZ.
> 
> Philippines objects to new Chinese gunboat in South China Sea - Channel NewsAsia


Whining will not stop our warships from taking back our Nansha Islands.


----------



## beijingwalker

Chinese ships begin patrolling disputed South China Sea areas
Last Updated: Tuesday, January 01, 2013, 21:25


> Beijing: China's marine surveillance ships today began patrolling the disputed South China Sea, implementing a controversial order to border police to board and search ships entering disputed areas which Beijing considers its territorial waters.
> 
> China's State Oceanic Administration (SOA) said its two vessels aided by a surveillance aircraft patrolled waters near the Beibu Gulf of the South China Sea, where Vietnam recently complained of harassment of Chinese vessels obstructing its survey ship.
> 
> One of the oil platforms, Ledong 22-1, told patrolling fleet that no oil leak had taken place, nor had they been harassed by foreign vessels lately, state-run Xinhua news agency reported.
> 
> Early last month Petro Vietnam alleged that Chinese fishing boats sabotaged one of its seismic survey ships 69 km from the small island of Con Co in the South China Sea.
> 
> It said two Chinese fishing boats had cut across cables being laid by the survey vessel Binh Minh 2 off the coast of central Vietnam.
> 
> Reacting to Hanoi's allegation Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman, Hong Lei told media here on Dec 6 that "Vietnam's allegation is inconsistent with facts".
> 
> "To our knowledge the sea area claimed by Vietnam is in the overlapping areas between China's Hainan island and Vietnam and our side Beibu Gulf," he said.
> 
> In November last year the local legislature of China's Hainan authorised provincial border police to board or seize foreign ships that illegally enter the province's waters and order them to change course or stop sailing from January 1.
> 
> According to the order activities such as entering the island province's waters without permission, damaging coastal defence facilities, and engaging in publicity that threatens national security are illegal, excerpts of the order published in the official media at that time said.
> 
> If foreign ships or crew members violate the regulations, Hainan police have the right to take over the ships or their communications systems, under the revised regulations, the orders said.
> 
> China virtually claims ownership to the entire South China Sea.
> 
> Besides Vietnam; Philippines, Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan too have disputes with China over the disputed islands in the South China Sea as well as the extent of territorial waters.
> 
> Philippines and Vietnam have raised objections over the maps printed in China's e-passports claiming the sovereignty over the disputed areas.


----------



## problemfreeleader

USA igniting world warIII But US grand strategy is clear. Just as the US sought to contain the Soviet Union during the Cold War by surrounding it with American allies and bases, so Washington plans to do with China.America is creating a sweeping arc of allies and bases that begins in Singapore, and moves northeast to the Philippines, then Taiwan, Okinawa, Japan, and South Korea, neatly bottling up China&#8217;s expanding naval forces. India is being encouraged to build powerful naval forces that can threaten China&#8217;s oil routes to the Mideast and keep its navy out of the Indian Ocean.


----------



## Cherokee

From NHK
NHK?????

The Philippines has begun stationing elite marines on some of the Spratly Islands in the South China Sea.

China, Taiwan, Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei and the Philippines claim sovereignty over all or some of the Spratlys.

High-ranking Philippine military officers said their country has started to deploy marines on the 9 islands and shoals since October. The country had already stationed naval officers there. The military says personnel numbers have almost doubled on some of the islands.

Before the deployment, the elite Marines underwent training to protect the islands. They have been equipped with upgraded weapons.

The Philippines also began expanding its military facility on the island of Lawak to accommodate tools and personnel for drilling and other operations. The country is developing oil and natural gas in waters near the island.

China is also increasing its military presence in the South China Sea to boost its claims to maritime interests in the area. An NHK reporter says the Philippines' deployment is intended to solidify its defense of the islands and shoals. 



Philippines puts marines on Spratly Islands : Zeke






Found one more interesting Pic

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Markus

Good move by Philippines.

Middle finger to Chinese bullying.


----------



## auspice

*Professional squatters usually work in syndicate. Using fake titles and maps they grab large tracts of land and waterways from real owners*. For semblance of possession they build fences and passageways, workplaces and shelters. They refuse appeals to prove their rights in court, for they know they would lose against the true owners. Instead they employ armed bands to enforce their land-grab, and publicists to distort the truth. Respecting no one, they flout the law and public outrage. They delay inevitable eviction with blarney or harassment. Meantime, they profit from the illegal takeover, by directly exploiting resources or by subletting.

There are a billion squatters worldwide, mostly penurious and landless, and only a handful of land-grab syndicates. The biggest of the latter is China&#8217;s dictatorial party.

China uses baseless ancient rights and maps to lay claim to the entire South China Sea and scores of islets, shoals, and reefs. Such claim goes against geologic science and international law, particularly freedom of navigation. But China is unperturbed. It also ignores verified historical accounts and maps, particularly of Vietnam and the Philippines, about the Paracel and the Spratly archipelagoes and landforms abutting their shores. It flouts the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea, even if it is a signatory, by disrespecting the 200-mile exclusive economic zones of the two countries, and of Malaysia and Brunei.

China has built military facilities in three of the islets and reefs, feigning at first to be doing so for fishermen of all nations. In pretense of true ownership, its navy patrols the seawaters, as if that would make genuine its unfounded nine-dash line map. Recently it clashed with Vietnamese sailors in the Paracels, and harassed Filipino marine surveyors and fishermen in the Recto Bank and Panatag Shoal.

*The Philippines has challenged China to settle the claim once and for all before the International Tribunal on the Law of the Sea. But China refuses. It knows it has no chance of winning. That&#8217;s why it uses instead armed might and guile, including putting up traitorous public officials and pseudo-journalists as spokesmen.* Because the Philippines refuses to be cowered or fooled, China also employs trade and tourism embargoes. It plays deaf to world opinion about its undiplomatic breaks of UN pacts, and mobilizes vassal states to thwart those that stand up to it.

China chatters about a supposed peaceful economic rise and joint use of the disputed area. But all that aims only to avoid peaceful resolution. One cannot expect peace from an avaricious bully-squatter whose real intent is to build an invisible Great Wall across the Pacific Ocean.

Like a true professional squatter, China is ravaging the sea like there&#8217;s no tomorrow. Fake owners think not of conserving resources in the grabbed territory. China scours the sea of marine life, even endangered species, for food and ornaments. It is slurping petroleum from offshore wells close to Vietnam, and has leased out parts of these to privateers. Nonstop too is the search for undersea minerals and rare-earth metals.


China, the professional squatter in Southeast Asia | Opinion, News, The Philippine Star | philstar.com

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## OrionHunter

Time to grab some popcorn, sit back, and enjoy the mayhem about to unfold on your TV screens! Exiting days ahead!


----------



## auspice

China is walking the big stick now. If unchallenged, it will become normal and cement their claim.






Can you imagine they actually claimed (9 dash-lines) or the whole of the West Philippine Sea (South China Sea)? just leaving enough space as beach for other countries. Maybe 5km from the shore and everything is China's? From the Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## beijingwalker

Vietnam ocean rights draw Taiwan protest
By Joseph Yeh, The China Post
January 4, 2013, 12:02 am TWN



> TAIPEI, Taiwan -- Taiwan's Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MOFA) yesterday issued a strong protest against a newly adopted Vietnamese law that lays claim to two disputed island chains in the South China Sea, a MOFA official said yesterday.
> 
> The Vietnamese Ocean law that officially took effect on Jan. 1 lists the Paracel islands and the Spratly islands as Vietnamese territory. The legislation concerns the management and development of Vietnam's territorial waters and exclusive economic zones.
> *
> Asked to comment, MOFA spokesman Steve Hsia yesterday called the move &#8220;illegal and void.&#8221;*
> 
> *He reiterated the Republic of China's sovereignty claim over the two island chains,* stressing that the South East Asian country's &#8220;unilateral&#8221; move will not be recognized by the Taiwan government.
> 
> *The Spratly Islands and the Paracel Islands, known respectively as the Nansha Islands (&#21335;&#27801;&#32676;&#23798 and the Shisha Islands (&#35199;&#27801;&#32676;&#23798 in Taiwan, as well as their surrounding waters, sea beds, and subsoil, are an inherent part of the territory of the R.O.C.,* he noted.
> 
> The Taiwanese government has expressed its severe protest to Vietnam's representative office, he added.
> 
> Taiwan reiterates that it maintains the principles of &#8220;safeguarding sovereignty, shelving disputes, pursuing peace and reciprocity, and promoting joint exploration,&#8221; and is willing to work with other countries involved to harvest the resources of the South China Sea, he said.
> 
> The law was initially passed by Vietnam's legislature in June, 2012, and it officially took effect Jan. 1.
> 
> *China, which also claims the two island chains, also condemned the Vietnamese move on Dec. 31, 2012 as &#8220;illegal and void.&#8221;*


----------



## beijingwalker

Compatriots across Taiwan Strait should work together to protect sovereignty: FM
(Xinhua)
08:17, September 25, 2012


> BEIJING, Sept. 24 (Xinhua) -- *A spokesman for China's Foreign Ministry on Monday said that compatriots across the Taiwan Strait should work together to protect national sovereignty and territorial integrity, placing the Chinese nation's sense of honor at the forefront.*
> 
> Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong Lei made the remarks during a regular press briefing when commenting on a question about Taiwanese fishing boats sailing to the Diaoyu Islands.
> 
> *Hong added that compatriots from both sides of the Strait should jointly safeguard the overall and fundamental interests of the Chinese nation.
> *
> China's resolve and will to safeguard its national territorial integrity is firm, Hong said, noting that Chinese maritime surveillance ships have been patrolling and conducting law enforcement activities, and will continue to do so, in waters surrounding the Diaoyu Islands in an exercise of the country's jurisdiction.


----------



## EastSea

*Vietnam protests Taiwan&#8217;s moves in Spratly *
Last Updated: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:00:00

The Ministry of Foreign Affairs&#8217;s National Border Committee on Wednesday condemned Taiwan&#8217;s plan to extend a runway on Ba Binh Island in the Truong Sa (Spratly) Archipelago, which is sovereign Vietnamese territory..
A spokesman for Vietnam&#8217;s National Border Committee said Vietnam has sufficient legal and historical evidence to affirm its sovereignty over the Truong Sa and Hoang Sa (Paracel) archipelagos.

"Activities by parties in the Truong Sa archipelago without Vietnam's permission violate Vietnam's sovereignty and international laws, especially the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea, and go against the spirit of the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the East Sea (DOC) while also causing tension in the East Sea," he said.

The committee also warned Taiwan to desist from such activities in future.


----------



## Rechoice

*@ beijimhwalker*

The photo is related to Senkaku Islands of Japan. 





The fate of 14 Diaoyu Island activist compatriots in Japan has affected the hearts of our countrymen. This reporter learned from the Foreign Ministry that yesterday, Chinese Foreign Ministry Deputy Minister Zhang Zhijun called Japanese Foreign Affairs Deputy Minister Kenichiro Sasae and once again raised solemn protests and negotiations concerning Japans illegal detainment of Chinese citizens and ships, pressing the Japanese side to immediately and unconditionally release both persons and ships, and requesting the Japanese side He urged the Japanese side to ensure the safety, dignity, and basic rights of the Chinese activists.






Japan To Deport & Return 14 Hong Kong Diaoyu Island Activists  chinaSMACK

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

vietnamese soldiers patrol an island in truong-sa-spratly-archipelago

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zero_wing

Rechoice said:


> *@ beijimhwalker*
> 
> The photo is related to Senkaku Islands of Japan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The fate of 14 Diaoyu Island activist compatriots in Japan has affected the hearts of our countrymen. This reporter learned from the Foreign Ministry that yesterday, Chinese Foreign Ministry Deputy Minister Zhang Zhijun called Japanese Foreign Affairs Deputy Minister Kenichiro Sasae and once again raised solemn protests and negotiations concerning Japan&#8217;s illegal detainment of Chinese citizens and ships, pressing the Japanese side to immediately and unconditionally release both persons and ships, and requesting the Japanese side He urged the Japanese side to ensure the safety, dignity, and basic rights of the Chinese activists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Japan To Deport & Return 14 Hong Kong Diaoyu Island Activists &#8211; chinaSMACK



This how to handle chinese arrogance

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Vitchilo

China is at it again...
Chinese plane again spotted near Senkaku Islands | Kyodo News


> Chinese plane again spotted near Senkaku Islands
> 
> A Chinese government airplane was again spotted Saturday near the Japan-administered Senkaku Islands in the East China Sea, the Defense Ministry said.
> 
> The ministry said the Y12 propeller plane belonging to China's State Oceanic Administration flew in airspace about 100 kilometers away from the islets, which Beijing claims and calls Diaoyu.
> 
> The Air Self-Defense Force scrambled fighter jets after noticing the Chinese plane in the area in the morning, the ministry said, adding it did not enter Japanese airspace.



China is so weak, they won't even send the plane in the Senkaku's airspace. Who's spanking who again?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

one of Vietnamese observation posts in the SCS - near spratlys

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## haidian

Vietnamese Complain As Chinese 3G Comes to Disputed Spratly Islands
Jan 7, 2013 at 17:22 PM by Anh-Minh Do, in Asia 



> In the ongoing dispute over the Spratly Islands claimed by China and Vietnam, the latest development is that China is opening up 3G services on the islands, not only to Chinese soldiers but also for the countrys fishermen.
> 
> The development will be yet another drop of lemon in the souring of Sino-Vietnamese relations in the past year. The Vietnamese government even voiced its complaint on nguyentandung.org, the Vietnamese Prime Ministers website. The island disputes recently ignited with anti-China protests in May 2011 after Chinese patrol boats attacked two Vietnamese oil exploration ships near the Spratly Islands.
> 
> *Chinese soldiers and fishermen will now be able to text message, call, and chat online with family back home over the new 3G network. This upgrade to 3G from regular cellular coverage* (started in 2011) and *the recent 3G network in the disputed Paracel Islands in July 2012 signals a more permanent Chinese presence on the rocky outposts.
> *
> 
> This news comes just a couple of weeks after a Chinese computer game was banned in Vietnam for showing the contested islands as being Chinese in the in-game maps.
> 
> The Spratly Islands are claimed by six different countries in total, including Brunei, the Peoples Republic of China, Malaysia, the Philippines, Taiwan, and Vietnam.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## rashid.sarwar

What if any would be a peaceful solution for this dispute???


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

rashid.sarwar said:


> What if any would be a peaceful solution for this dispute???



Speak'eth good english please

& Yes, a peaceful solution must be found.


----------



## NiceGuy

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Speak'eth good english please
> 
> & Yes, a peaceful solution must be find.


I'm pretty sure that there's No such kind of "a peaceful solution " for the invader to our sovereignty

As I told u guys here, war may start at about mid 2013. Just wait and see.


----------



## Skull and Bones

Just install high powered cell phone jammers in those area, problem solved.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

NiceGuy said:


> I'm pretty sure that there's No such kind of "a peaceful solution " for the invader to our sovereignty
> 
> As I told u guys here, war may start at about mid 2013. Just wait and see.



Only if you have exhausted every options. I still believe that the Pen is mightier than the sword.


----------



## SinoChallenger

NiceGuy said:


> I'm pretty sure that there's No such kind of "a peaceful solution " for the invader to our sovereignty
> 
> As I told u guys here, war may start at about mid 2013. Just wait and see.


Good. When PLA tanks roll into Hanoi, Chinese companies can set up factories for cheap local labor and make lots of money.


----------



## haidian

Skull and Bones said:


> Just install high powered cell phone jammers in those area, problem solved.



Will you come to do this job?practice what you preach please.



NiceGuy said:


> I'm pretty sure that there's No such kind of "a peaceful solution " for the invader to our sovereignty
> 
> As I told u guys here, war may start at about mid 2013. Just wait and see.



war will be started by whom?Vietnam or China?


----------



## Skull and Bones

haidian said:


> Will you come to do this job?practice what you preach please.



If they pay me enough, then hell i will as a third party contractor. And installing cell phone jammer of 900 and 2100 frequency band will jam all Chinese mobile frequency (dual band), while Vietnamese 1800 band will still work (Tri Band).

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## haidian

Skull and Bones said:


> If they pay me enough, then hell i will as a third party contractor. And installing cell phone jammer of 900 and 2100 frequency band will jam all Chinese mobile frequency (dual band), while Vietnamese 1800 band will still work (Tri Band).



lol,so should I expect to see the project carried out or shouldn't I?


----------



## NiceGuy

haidian said:


> Will you come to do this job?practice what you preach please.
> 
> 
> 
> war will be started by whom?Vietnam or China?


by VietNam,l guess.We also started first in war with France,US and in overthrowing China's ally Pol Pot in1979.


----------



## Skull and Bones

haidian said:


> lol,so should I expect to see the project carried out or shouldn't I?



Don't ask me, ask Vietnamese members here. Their land, their wish, i can only offer solutions to tackle their problems.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## haidian

NiceGuy said:


> by VietNam,l guess.We also started first in war with France,US and in overthrowing China's ally Pol Pot



lol,you will start a war against China in mid 2013...hilarious,that's like a suicide mission for your country,mid 2013 is not really that far off,let wait and see.you are out of your mind,man,you want to start a war against a giant country which is 100 times stronger than you..ok,go ahead,and by the way where exactly would you start this upcoming war?on the sea or land?


----------



## NewCastle2012

Dude, check your previous posts. You asked us to wait for Jan 1st, 2013. 


NiceGuy said:


> I'm pretty sure that there's No such kind of "a peaceful solution " for the invader to our sovereignty
> 
> As I told u guys here, war may start at about mid 2013. Just wait and see.


----------



## Always Neutral

NiceGuy said:


> I'm pretty sure that there's No such kind of "a peaceful solution " for the invader to our sovereignty
> 
> As I told u guys here, war may start at about mid 2013. Just wait and see.



And Sino Challenger is bothered about Falklands?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NiceGuy

haidian said:


> lol,you will start a war against China in mid 2013...hilarious,that's like a suicide mission for your country,mid 2013 is not really that far off,let wait and see.you are out of your mind,man,you want to start a war against a giant country which is 100 times stronger than you..ok,go ahead,and by the way where exactly would you start this upcoming war?on the sea or land?


We started the war with US first, too.China is far weaker than US,who cares if u're big or small? We overthrowed ur ally Pol Pot,u couldn't do anything to stop us. If u invade VN,then war is inevitable.let's see who will have the last laugh


----------



## NiceGuy

Always Neutral said:


> And Sino Challenger is bothered about Falklands?



I don't understand what u mean?


----------



## Always Neutral

NiceGuy said:


> I don't understand what u mean?



I said Chinese like to pontificate about the right when it come to Falkland but love to bully their neigbours. When it comes to a fight we know how they ran away from Taiwan and Vietnam.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## haidian

Always Neutral said:


> I said Chinese like to pontificate about the right when it come to Falkland but love to bully their neigbours. When it comes to a fight we know how they ran away from Taiwan and Vietnam.


really,how come you even dared not to put up a fight when we took back Hongkong,and you are right about one thing,all Chinese people believe that Islas Malvinas belong to Argentina,sooner or later you have to give it back to its rightful owner.


----------



## NiceGuy

Always Neutral said:


> I said Chinese like to pontificate about the right when it come to Falkland but love to bully their neigbours. When it comes to a fight we know how they ran away from Taiwan and Vietnam.


I think it must be another hard war for VN.US may support Taiwan when we attack Itu-aba isl.we don't care abt China navy,but US seven fleet is big trouble.


----------



## haidian

NiceGuy said:


> We started the war with US first, too.China is far weaker than US,who cares if u're big or small? We overthrowed ur ally Pol Pot,u couldn't do anything to stop us. If u invade VN,then war is inevitable.let's see who will have the last laugh



without China and Russia's help ,you are nothing,China's aid was the deciding edge in your war agaisnt US.and you said that you would start the war against China in mid 2013,Then what do you mean by saying


> If u invade VN,then war is inevitable.let's see who will have the last laugh


you said you would attack China first,right?that's what "start"a war means.



NiceGuy said:


> *I think it must be another hard war for VN.US may support Taiwan when we attack Itu-aba isl.we don't care abt China navy,but US seven fleet is big trouble.*


lol,I have to give it to you,that's a good one.


----------



## NiceGuy

haidian said:


> without China and Russia's help ,you are nothing,China's aid was the deciding edge in your war agaisnt US.and you said that you would start the war against China in mid 2013,Then what do you mean by saying
> you said you would attack China first,right?


Russia still support Vn against China in SCS(east sea), she's gonna build a new sub-marine base for us,too. 


> that's what "start"a war means.
> 
> 
> lol,I have to give it to you,that's a good one.


We should start war with Taiwan at Itu Aba first coz that isl has fresh water and it's quite big,too.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## haidian

NiceGuy said:


> We should start war with Taiwan at Itu Aba first coz that isl has fresh water and it's quite big,too.



put your money where your mouth is.


----------



## HeyAya

Calm Down.Angry Young man.


NiceGuy said:


> We started the war with US first, too.China is far weaker than US,who cares if u're big or small? We overthrowed ur ally Pol Pot,u couldn't do anything to stop us. If u invade VN,then war is inevitable.let's see who will have the last laugh


----------



## EastSea

*PH cautious on China oil offer*

The Philippines is taking with caution Chinese Ambassador Ma Keqing&#8217;s declaration of Beijing&#8217;s openness to a joint exploration for oil and gas in the West Philippine Sea (South China Sea), a position more recently reiterated by China&#8217;s foreign ministry to show its commitment to a peaceful resolution of the maritime dispute embroiling both countries.
Foreign Secretary Albert del Rosario said Monday any joint development in disputed territories in the West Philippine Sea should abide by Philippine laws and any business talks should be led by the private sector.
&#8220;We take a guarded position on China&#8217;s statement on joint development,&#8221; said Del Rosario in a text message to the Philippine Daily Inquirer.
&#8220;Any commercial negotiations on oil exploration should be left to the private sector parties concerned to undertake. Any exploration agreement in the West Philippine Sea must be in accordance with Philippine law,&#8221; the country&#8217;s top diplomat said.
In an interview with the Inquirer staff last month, Ma expressed China&#8217;s willingness to jointly explore oil and mineral riches in the West Philippine Sea, saying that &#8220;it is a still very valid formula&#8221; as border disputes may not be solved &#8220;in the very short term.&#8221;
Chinese Vice Foreign Minister Zhang Zhijun later said in a speech in Beijing that &#8220;joint development may still well be a practical approach&#8221; in resolving the maritime dispute, asserting that China was against the use of force to settle the issue.
Del Rosario declined to comment further when asked how the seeming openness of the Chinese would impact on the debate on sovereignty over islands in the contested areas.
The Philippines, China, Taiwan, Vietnam, Malaysia and Brunei have conflicting claims over territories in the West Philippine Sea which are believed to be rich in oil, mineral and marine resources.
The China National Offshore Oil Corp. (CNOOC) is known to have started deep-water drilling in parts of the South China Sea.
Taiwan&#8217;s Bureau of Mines and state-run oil supplier CPC Corp. have announced plans to begin oil and gas exploration in the waters around Ligao, the biggest island in the disputed Spratlys chain that the Taiwanese call Taiping.
The Philippines meanwhile has oil exploration contracts in parts of the Spratlys within its exclusive economic zone. These are with CNOOC and are held by Filipino businessmen Manuel V. Pangilinan and Ricky Razon through Forum Energy.
China&#8217;s statements asserting its commitment to a peaceful resolution to the maritime disputes come amid actions the Philippines has viewed as violations of international law, including the entry of Chinese patrol boats in the disputed waters and the holding of military drills and construction of new infrastructure on one large island.
China established Sansha City on the island as an extension of its southern province of Hainan last year to govern the whole of the Spratlys island chain. It is known to have some 1,000 civilians and 6,000 troops as permanent residents on Sansha.
The Philippines has brought the dispute to the United Nations but China refuses to recognize the world body&#8217;s authority, preferring, it has said, to deal bilaterally with the countries it is in conflict with.

PH cautious on China oil offer | Inquirer Global Nation

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## auspice

Well that idea of Ma if apply to them surely China will NEVER engage other country to explore their claimed territory. The issue of territory (whether there is gas or none) must be cleared first to every country/claimant before business venture. It's blatantly unfair to the Filipino people who have natural and legal rights to all the resources within the Philippine territories and Exclusive Economic Zone. It is just a euphemistic way of giving up sovereignty.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Soryu

NiceGuy said:


> by VietNam,l guess.We also started first in war with France,US and in overthrowing China's ally Pol Pot in1979.



I don't think so, it's not us at first. We had concessions them, but they pressed on our limit...then...


----------



## hoangsa

US on 3 Jan officially declare to give up neutral attitude in Senkaku problem. US supports Japan and Senkaku under US's protection, means if China invade Senkaku, US will open fight ( to make China into 3 or 5 or 10 nations, who know ). What do you say Sino invaders ? Shaking like a wet dog...huh ? then turn back and try to bite smallers to take back government/s face in front of her people... ha ha.

Go ahead we are waiting to kick your ash out of the East sea.


----------



## Viet

*Vietnam Law enforcers at sea*
Q&#272;ND - Monday, January 07, 2013, 20:38 (GMT+7)

PANO - In spite of having different missions, troops of Marine Police Region 1 and Drug Enforcement Unit 1, under the Vietnam Marine Police Department, have worked together on disseminating laws to fishermen to prevent drug trafficking, protect national sovereignty and the environment, and ensure security at sea.

PANO (people' s army newspaper online) would like to introduce some photos of the troops&#8217; activities.






Cadres from Drug Enforcement Unit 1 disseminating laws to fishermen in Hai Phong City





Cadres from Drug Enforcement Unit 1 disseminating laws to fishermen in Quang Ninh province





Cadres from Drug Enforcement Unit 1 disseminating laws to students in Pham Ngu Lao High School in Thuy Nguyen, Hai Phong City





Flotilla 101&#8217;s troops of the Vietnam Marine Police Region 1 taking a break on a ship

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

*New chief seeks early action on SCS dispute*
Yohanna Ririhena, The Jakarta Post, Jakarta | Headlines | Thu, January 10 2013, 12:02 PM





_We are solid: Foreign Minister Marty Natalegawa (center) holds the hands of outgoing ASEAN secretary-general Surin Pitsuwan (right) and incoming ASEAN Secretary-General Le Luong Minh during the ASEAN chief handover ceremony at ASEAN Secretariat in Jakarta on Wednesday. (JP/Jerry Adiguna)We are solid: Foreign Minister Marty Natalegawa (center) holds the hands of outgoing ASEAN secretary-general Surin Pitsuwan (right) and incoming ASEAN Secretary-General Le Luong Minh during the ASEAN chief handover ceremony at ASEAN Secretariat in Jakarta on Wednesday. (JP/Jerry Adiguna)_

Acknowledging the complicated South China Sea (SCS) issue, the new ASEAN Secretary-General Le Luong Minh called on ASEAN members on Wednesday to boost efforts to begin negotiations with China to conclude the Code of Conduct (CoC).

&#8220;ASEAN should speed up efforts to negotiate with China to achieve an early conclusion for a Code of Conduct on the South China Sea,&#8221; Minh said in his inaugural remarks during the transfer of office ceremony, witnessed by Foreign Minister Marty Natalegawa and outgoing ASEAN secretary-general Surin Pitsuwan at the ASEAN Secretariat in Jakarta.

He said the agreement between ASEAN and China on the guidelines for implementing the Declaration on Conduct of parties in the South China Sea (DoC), ASEAN&#8217;s six-point principles on the South China Sea and the adoption of the ASEAN-China Joint Statement on the occasion of the 10th Anniversary of the DoC, would serve as &#8220;the good ground&#8221; to resolve the territorial dispute.

Minh highlighted the sensitivity of the South China Sea. As an important international sea lane, the area is not only echoing the issue of peace and stability for countries in the ASEAN region, but also of maritime security and the safety of navigation for many countries.

*China and four ASEAN member states have overlapped claims on the South China Sea. Many fear that the disputes could potentially become Asia&#8217;s next flash points for armed conflicts.*

The conclusion of CoC is significant in ensuring effective and timely implementation of the ASEAN Political and Security Community Blueprints, especially the measures relating to shaping and sharing standardized conduct, to confidence building, conflict prevention and resolution, he said.

Minh also underlined the need for ASEAN to work together on its focus to build the community with three pillars.

Before assuming his post as ASEAN&#8217;s secretary-general, Minh was Vietnam&#8217;s deputy minister for foreign affairs. His appointment was formally endorsed by the ASEAN leaders at the 21st ASEAN Summit in Cambodia in November 2012. His five-year tenure started from Jan. 1, 2013 and will last until Dec. 31, 2017.

Surin underlined the need for ASEAN to develop several strategies and initiatives to keep the association relevant and maintain its centrality.

*He also urged ASEAN to settle the gaps &#8212; both inside and between &#8212; member states.*

New chief seeks early action on SCS dispute | The Jakarta Post

The Dispute should be solved through diplomacy not armed conflict.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cirr

CMS 19&#65306;






and 4 newly commissioned CMS speedboats&#65288;No. 76&#12289;77&#12289;86 and 87&#65289;&#65306;


----------



## EastSea

One of our ship, ready to heading with sea pirate ships in our EZZ.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Fsjal

Vietnam is a joke. China's military is 20 years ahead of Vietnam.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Fsjal

Why does US send carriers to places they do not own? Why don't they just stay at there own waters.


----------



## Fsjal

A Foreign Ministry spokesman on Monday urged the Philippines not to complicate the situation in the South China Sea, as recent media reports have stated that the country may build infrastructure on the Nansha Islands.

"We have seen the reports and will closely watch the development of the situation," spokesman Hong Lei said during a regular news briefing.

Hong said China has indisputable sovereignty over the Nansha Islands and their adjacent waters and opposes any move that could impair China's sovereignty.

"We hope the country concerned will adhere to the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea (DOC) and not take any action that could complicate the issue," he said.
---------------------------------
The region needs peace, not war. Even if China is more superior, war will only hurt their economy.


----------



## Fsjal

NiceGuy said:


> We're long time ally of former Soviet and Russia now, so it's not hard to have Missile technology transfer from Russia
> 
> Even our nuclear capable plus anti-carrier missile Shaddock alone is far better than any China's anti-ship missile



Those missiles are old. They are slow and inaccurate. Also their size makes it easy for China's Type 730 CIWS.



faithfulguy said:


> This is an old piece of crap that is retired by Russia. How can a missile with CEP of 3000m hit a ship consistently. Are you sure that Russian are your friends? You need to get a more modern missile from them.



Even China's YJ-12 is even better. Vietnam's anti ship missiles are utter garbage. 
Also Vietnam's ships do make a great coral reef, as long as they are clean.


----------



## terranMarine

Just look at the Middle East, it's a total war zone. Muslims fighting each other and US meddling and military operations have disrupted peace so their defence industry can flourish. If Japan remains stubborn, Vietnam and Philippines wants to make things worse by plotting with the US in an attempt to contain China and if India wants to add fuel into fire then the Asian region will become the next Middle East. Last but not least we have North Korea increasing tensions too.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Always Neutral

gpit said:


> *It is a miracle that one of the most backward countries in the world has the world's most modern weapons*.



Yet they beat you, France and the US when invaded them?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Fsjal

Viet said:


> If you haven´t noticed, we produce enough cruise missiles such as SS-N-25 Switchblade to keep all of your warships out of SCS. And one missile is dedicated to stop your big mouth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia to Help Vietnam Produce Anti-Ship Missiles, RIA Says - Bloomberg
> Russia, Vietnam to Jointly Manufacture Anti-Ship Missiles | World | RIA Novosti



The Chinese have developed a missile called YJ-12. Range is 400km and is supersonic. Vietnam can't make a decent missile, but China can



EastSea said:


> They occupied room and places by ports first. pls to go on but have to be respective to rule of international law for free navigation. china can spend money for benzin for idiot travelling, but don't violate other country territory.
> useless big toy.



Better than Vietnamese floating garbage. You Vietnamese dream big, but at the end of the day, you go home sulking because China is years ahead of Vietnam in almost everything.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## auspice

^ Shut your f.i.l.t.h.y mouth false flagger!

China is an outright full-faced liar, a traitor and must not be trusted in any way. They have showed their true color and their real ambition to annex the entire South China Sea. They are not for peace they are for acquisition of what is not theirs.

All these military provocations by Beijing is doing more harm to China's claim than good. Putting the management of the Paracel, Spratlys and other island under the city of Sansha while other countries protest will add more wounds to China's claim. According Article 52 of the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties, any territory acquired by force is null and void. Keep it up Beijing! You're soon going down 6 feet under the ground with your claim.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Vitchilo

Why doesn't Russia sell Brahmos to Vietnam instead?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## EastSea

Vitchilo said:


> Why doesn't Russia sell Brahmos to Vietnam instead?



Thks for good idea, I think we can follow discussion with them.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

Vitchilo said:


> Why doesn't Russia sell Brahmos to Vietnam instead?


Because they were sell &#1071;&#1093;&#1086;&#1085;&#1090; (Yakhont) to us and many ASM missiles, in the future, when we have more money, we will get more of them.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Knight of Tang

You finally get to know what kind of mouth is on your face.


auspice said:


> ^ Shut your *f.i.l.t.h.y mouth* false flagger!


blah blah blah...haven't you got anything new to $hit off?


auspice said:


> China is an outright full-faced liar, a traitor and must not be trusted in any way. They have showed their true color and their real ambition to annex the entire South China Sea. They are not for peace they are for acquisition of what is not theirs.


Well, we'd kindly say to you ladies: "after you"


auspice said:


> All these military provocations by Beijing is doing more harm to China's claim than good. Putting the management of the Paracel, Spratlys and other island under the city of Sansha while other countries protest will add more wounds to China's claim. According Article 52 of the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties, any territory acquired by force is null and void. Keep it up Beijing! *You're soon going down 6 feet under the ground with your claim.*


----------



## Malaya

*Brunei to seek South China Sea code of conduct*

BANDAR SERI BEGAWAN, Brunei: Brunei will pursue a binding code of conduct among competing South China Sea claimants as a top priority during its ASEAN chairmanship, officials said Monday.

The tiny, oil-rich sultanate has assumed the chair of the 10-member Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) for 2013 at a time when tension over sweeping Chinese claims to the sea have rattled the region.

"Brunei sees this as a key threat to regional security and would like to resolve the issue through dialogue with all claimants, including China," said a foreign ministry official, who declined to be named.

ASEAN members Vietnam, the Philippines, Malaysia and Brunei, as well as Taiwan, also have claims to parts of the sea, one of the world's most important shipping lanes and believed to be rich in fossil fuels.

Simmering tensions over the issue have risen in the past two years, with the Philippines and Vietnam accusing China of becoming increasingly aggressive in staking its claims.

Cambodia's 2012 ASEAN chairmanship was marked by sharp regional discord over the affair.

The rancour led to unprecedented infighting at an ASEAN foreign ministers' meeting in Phnom Penh in July, which ended for the first time in the bloc's 45-year history without a joint communique.

As chair, Cambodia -- a close China ally -- was accused of resisting efforts by the Philippines and Vietnam to take a more aggressive position against the Chinese.

Efforts to secure a legally binding code of conduct involving ASEAN and China have floundered for years amid Beijing's insistence on handling disputes bilaterally with individual countries, while ASEAN wants to speak as a group.

China and ASEAN signed a broad declaration in 2002 pledging the parties would handle disputes peacefully and not take actions that threaten peace and stability.

During an ASEAN summit in November, the organisation called on China to get serious in working toward a binding code of conduct.

Brunei will host ASEAN leader summits in April and October.

Brunei to seek South China Sea code of conduct - Channel NewsAsia

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Malaya

*Thailand seeks talks on South China Sea*

Thailand will try to find a common position among Asean members on the South China Sea, a senior diplomat says.

Sihasak Phuangketkaew, permanent secretary at the Foreign Ministry, said that as a coordinator of Asean-China relations, Thailand will seek a common Asean position on the disputed waters for the bloc's talks on the issue with China.

Asean has appointed Thailand as its country coordinator for Asean-China relations from July 2012 to July 2015.

Thailand also plans to hold separate talks with each of the countries that lay claim to disputed areas, as attempts to resolve the conflicts in larger meetings failed last year.

Asean members the Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia and Brunei lay claim to parts of the South China Sea. China and Taiwan also claim large parts.

Each country's position on the matter differs, Mr Sihasak said, with domestic politics and nationalism major factors in determining how Asean countries have so far approached the topic.

It will not be an easy task to seek a common Asean position, as the sea harbours significant oil and natural gas reserves which are critical to the various nations' energy security, he said.

Indonesia is using the issue as a platform to demonstrate its regional leadership, but Mr Sihasak said Jakarta and Bangkok should work closely to settle this quarrel.

However, negotiations with China will depend on its willingness to engage, he said. He hopes the change in China's leadership in March will lead to a more relaxed stance on the matter in Beijing.

Asean and China should look at the big picture and Beijing should not regard a common Asean position as an attempt to pressure the new leadership, Mr Sihasak said. Instead, a common position will reinforce a centralised Asean approach to regional security, something China will benefit from, he added.

As long as the South China Sea is a source of conflict, most countries in the region will look to the US to counter-balance China's influence. Acknowledging this should make China more flexible, to prevent Asean from reaching out to the US too much, said Mr Sihasak.

He also praised the US for taking a softer stance on the South China Sea during the East Asia Summit in Cambodia last November.

Previously, the US strongly supported the Philippines' claims. Now it says it would instead like all parties to engage in negotiations without provoking China or backing the Philippines too much.

Thailand seeks talks on South China Sea | Bangkok Post: news

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

*Vietnam slams China for East Sea activities*
1/15/2013 8:17:00 AM Voice of Vietnam





_Foreign Ministry spokesperson Luong Thanh Nghi_

(VOV) - Foreign Ministry spokesperson Luong Thanh Nghi on January 14 condemned Chinas recent activities in the East Sea, particularly the *Hoang Sa* and *Truong Sa* archipelagoes, saying they seriously violate Vietnams sovereignty, sovereign right and jurisdiction in the area.

Nghi was answering questions about Vietnams response to a number of recent activities by China in the East Sea, especially its official announcement and enforcement of coastal border security regulations for Hainan, the exercise on Quang Hoa island of the Hoang Sa archipelago, the provision of 3D and CDMA services on Chu Thap (Stone Cross) of the Truong Sa archipelago, and the approval of the Sanya City cruise tourism development plan (2012-2022), which included tours to islands in the Hoang Sa archipelago.

Those activities further complicated the situation in the East Sea and ran counter to the spirit of the Declaration on Conduct of the Parties in the East Sea (DOC), Nghi said, describing them as unhelpful to peace and stability in the region, as well as Vietnam-China relations.
*
Vietnam resolutely opposed those wrongful activities and demanded China to immediately cancel them, the official said.*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

*Visiting Spratly Archipelago (Vietnam)
*




A delegation of the Central Committee of Vietnam Women&#8217;s Union, led by Truong Thi Ai Nhien, Deputy-Chairwoman of the Union, visiting troops and islanders on islands of Truong Sa (Spratly) Archipelago in May, 2012. 






200 delegates onboard the &#8220;HQ 572&#8221;, designed and built by Vietnam to carry troops, heading for the sunrise.






A naval soldier on Da Nam Island guiding a speedboat carrying visitors to the island






Gifts, books, newspapers and tools from the mainland arriving on the island 






Exchange between representatives from Quang Binh Provincial Women&#8217;s Union and Second-Lieutenant Nguyen Xuan Thuy on Co Lin Island. During the visit, the delegation spent some time visiting and giving encouragement to troops on islands of Spratly Archipelago. 






Delegation members singing together with troops on the island 






First visit of representatives from the Nam Dinh Provincial Buddhist Church to Spratly Archipelago and Song Tu Tay Island.






Changes on Spratly. Big projects, such as the Commemorative House of late President Ho Chi Minh, the Martyrs Monument on Truong Sa, a temple, to name but a few, built over the past years. On May 5th, the Statue of General Tran Hung Dao unveiled on Song Tu Tay Island.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

*Visiting Spratly Archipelago (Vietnam)*






At present, many people settling down on Spratly Archipelago. Children on islands have an opportunity to schools built on these islands. 






In the moonlight, scenery of islands like cities at sea. Freshwater, vegetables, electricity, phone, television and internet access meeting demand of troops and islanders.






Delegation bursting into tears in a ceremony to commemorate martyrs. 






Delegation taking part in a flag-flying and a parade by troops on Truong Sa. 






Visiting fish farming areas on Da Tay Island

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

CFA 312 returns after sea trials&#65306;
















CMS 9030 about to be launched&#65306;


----------



## EastSea

Vietnam guard ships.


----------



## Fsjal

terranMarine said:


> Just look at the Middle East, it's a total war zone. Muslims fighting each other and US meddling and military operations have disrupted peace so their defence industry can flourish. If Japan remains stubborn, Vietnam and Philippines wants to make things worse by plotting with the US in an attempt to contain China and if India wants to add fuel into fire then the Asian region will become the next Middle East. Last but not least we have North Korea increasing tensions too.



What happens if there is no oil? Who is to blame? What is the consequences?


----------



## Viet

*Vietnamese Naval ships transport Tet gifts to offshore soldiers*
1/14/2013 9:06:29 AM Voice of Vietnam






defence platform





Con Dao island






(VOV) -On January 13, two naval ships left the coastal city of Vung Tau, southern Ba Ria-Vung Tau province, carrying New Year gifts for officers and soldiers stationed at* offshore marine defence platforms* and Con Dao island. 

One vessel will deliver goods to Tu Chinh, Phuc Nguyen, Que Duong, Huyen Tran and Ba Ke defence platforms. The second will unload its cargo at platform DK1/10 and *Con Dao island*. 

The supplies include fragrant rice, pork, sweets, and peach flowers donated by individuals, agencies and organisations from across the country to help the officers and soldiers enjoy an authentic traditional *Lunar New Year*.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cirr

In addition to the 36 1000-tonne and 1500-tonne vessels that are under active construction for the CMS provincial fleets, work has also started on the following:

Board No. - sizes - *displacement* - Shipyard 

CMS:
XXX - 98×15.2×7.8 - *3980* - HP 
XXX - 98×15.2×7.8 - *3980* - HP &#12288; 
XXX - 98×15.2×7.8 - *3980* - HP &#12288; 
XXX - 98×15.2×7.8 - *3980* - HP &#12288; 
XXX - 98×15.2×7.8 - *3980* - HP &#12288; 
XXX - 98×15.2×7.8 - *3980* - WC &#12288; 
XXX - 98×15.2×7.8 - *3980* - WC &#12288; 
XXX - 98×15.2×7.8 - *3980* - WC &#12288; 
XXX - 98×15.2×7.8 - *3980* - WC &#12288; 
XXX - 98×15.2×7.8 - *3980* - WC &#12288; 
XXX - 110×15×4.5 - *3450* - XX &#12288; 
XXX - 110×15×4.5 - *3450* - XX &#12288; 
XXX - 110×15×4.5 - *3450* - XX &#12288; 
XXX - 110×15×4.5 *3450* - XX &#12288; 
XXX - 110×15×4.5 *3450* - XX &#12288; 
XXX - 110×15×4.5 *3450* - XX &#12288; 
XXX - 99×15.2×7.6 - *4896* - HP &#12288; 
XXX - 99×15.2×7.6 - *4896* - HP &#12288; 
XXX - 99×15.2×7.6 - *4896* - HP &#12288; 
XXX - 99×15.2×7.6 - *4896* - HP &#12288; 
XXX - 128.6×16×7.9 - *5418* - WC &#12288; 
XXX - 128.6×16×7.9 - *5418* - WC&#12288; 
XXX - 128.6×16×7.9 - *5418* - WC &#12288; 
XXX - 128.6×16×7.9 - *5418* - WC &#12288; 
XXX - ×&#65311;×&#65311;×&#65311;- *12000* - JN &#12288; 
XXX - ×&#65311;×&#65311;×&#65311;- *12000* - JN
&#12288; 
China Fishery Administration: 
XXX - 110×15×4.5 - *3450* - XX 
XXX - 110×15×4.5 - *3450* - XX &#12288; 
XXX - 110×15×4.5 - *3450* - XX &#12288; 
XXX - 110×15×4.5 - *3450* - XX &#12288; 
XXX - 110×15×4.5 - *3450* - XX&#12288; 
XXX - 110×15×4.5 - *3450* - XX &#12288; 
XXX - 110×15×4.5 - *3450* - XX&#12288; 
XXX - 110×15×4.5 - *3450* - XX&#12288; 
XXX - 110×15×4.5 - *3450* - XX &#12288; 
XXX - 110×15×4.5 - *3450* - XX &#12288; 
XXX - 110×15×4.5 - *3450* - XX &#12288; 
XXX - 83.26×11.6×4.06 *1600* &#65311;- XX&#12288; 
XXX - 83.26×11.6×4.06 *1600* &#65311;- XX &#12288; 
XXX - 83.26×11.6×4.06 *1600* &#65311;- XX &#12288; 

China Coast Guard:
1XX - 120×&#65311;×&#65311;- *3000* &#65311;- XX 

There are two more naval assets awaiting conversion into CMS ships, making a total of 43 vessels and a standard displacement of some *178500* tonnes. 

Knowing an industrial might that China is, you guys won't have to wait long to see all these, and more, prowling the South China Sea and the East Sea.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Soryu

How many time I heard this!? ..... 


> Knowing an industrial might that China is, you guys won't have to wait long to see all these, and more, prowling the South China Sea and the East Sea.


----------



## cirr

Some of the new vessels are an upgrade of this &#8220;CMS 50&#8221;&#65306;

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

*Vietnam&#8217;s sea and islands on Saigon&#8217;s roads this lunar New Year*

VietNamNet Bridge &#8211; With the theme &#8220;Vietnam&#8217;s Heart,&#8221; the Nguyen Hue flower road in HCM City will highlight the idea of popularity and the country&#8217;s position. 

The flower road will open from February 7 to 13. Below is the overall perspective of the Nguyen Hue flower road this lunar New Year.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cirr

At least 8 vessesl&#65292;6 CMS ships and 2 Type 056 FFGs&#65292;under construction at HPS&#65306;






Why 8&#65311;There are &#65288;at least&#65289;4 more being assembled in the hangars&#12290;

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

_Vietnamese fishing boats anchor around the marine defense platform DK1 in the East Sea._

As per statistic of 2012, more than *33,200 Vietnamese boats* and some 700,000 fishermen operate within a 1,200 kilometer range, from Thanh Hoa to Binh Thuan provinces.

I think we must step up adding more marine defense platforms into the South China Sea increasing our monitoring on the ground.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Soryu

China just live with lies.


Martian2 said:


> *Spratly Islands have belonged to China since ancient times*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1834 Vietnamese map showed the islands as Chinese "Wanli Changsha."
> 
> [Note: Thank you to HuziHaidao12 for the first two pictures and captions.]


Why the China Islands were appearance in Vietnam map!? Lol, Island belong to Vietnam, and was draw in Vietnam map

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## yusheng

a trans post:

South China Sea Clash:Chinese vessels urge away Vietnamese navy ships 
China Marine Surveillance ships warned off Vietnamese navy vessel by bumping into it in south china sea, The Vietnamese vessel backed off, changing course and left eventually

********.com - South China Sea Clash:Chinese vessels urge away Vietnamese navy ships

original&#65306;http://www.56.com/u51/v_NzIwOTE2NjQ.html#st=4&fromoutpvid=NzIwOTE2NjQ&


----------



## EastSea

yusheng said:


> a trans post:
> 
> South China Sea Clash:Chinese vessels urge away Vietnamese navy ships
> China Marine Surveillance ships warned off Vietnamese navy vessel by bumping into it in south china sea, The Vietnamese vessel backed off, changing course and left eventually
> 
> ********.com - South China Sea Clash:Chinese vessels urge away Vietnamese navy ships
> 
> original&#65306;å¤ªç¹ä¹ç»åäºï¼æµ·çåå¼ä»¬ï¼å¥½æ*·çï¼ å¥½å*©å*ç»ä½*ä»¬æ¬åç¤¼äºï¼_è§é¢å¨çº¿è§ ç - 56.com



DN - 29 is civil cargo ship registered in Da Nang Vietnam. Chinese ships is violated free navigation Internationale law. Chinese are sea pirates.


----------



## Soryu

yusheng said:


> a trans post:
> 
> South China Sea Clash:Chinese vessels urge away Vietnamese navy ships
> China Marine Surveillance ships warned off Vietnamese navy vessel by bumping into it in south china sea, The Vietnamese vessel backed off, changing course and left eventually
> 
> ********.com - South China Sea Clash:Chinese vessels urge away Vietnamese navy ships
> 
> original&#65306;å¤ªç¹ä¹ç»åäºï¼æµ·çåå¼ä»¬ï¼å¥½æ*·çï¼å¥½å*©å*ç»ä½*ä»¬æ¬åç¤¼äºï¼_è§é¢å¨çº¿è§ç - 56.com


China craps again, nothing in video show proof of things like you said. China ships enter Vietnam's EEZ and were blocking by Vietnamese's ships made operation mission "BM-06".

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cirr

Delivered and launched&#65306;











A small &#65288;large for the monkeys&#65289;MSA vessel commissioned&#65306;

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## hoangsa

Abe's diamond to answer a fierce China. China is becoming a dangerous monster in front of her neighbor nations. Too unwise.

Return Hoang Sa to Vietnam right now then nothing happen otherwise you loose much more.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

*Historic maps support Vietnam's island sovereignty*
Q&#272;ND - Thursday, October 18, 2012, 21:10 (GMT+7)





_A Chinese map does not include Paracel and Spratly Islands_

An American with Vietnamese origin will hand over *90 old maps published between 1826 and 1980*, which contain further evidence of Vietnam&#8217;s sovereignty over Hoang Sa (Paracel) and Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelagoes, to Da Nang's Institute for Socio-Economic Development (ISED) next month.

The maps are part of a collection belonging to the president of the Institute for Vietnamese Culture and Education (IVCE), Tran Thang. The institute is a non-profit organisation founded in New York in 2000.

ISED vice director Tran Duc Anh Son said the collection of old maps comprises of three kinds of maps: 
*# 68 maps showing that China did not have Hoang Sa and Truong Sa archipelagoes; 
# six maps indicating that those islands belonged to Vietnam; 
# five maps of the Southeast Asian region showing that Hoang Sa and Truong Sa archipelagoes are under Vietnam sovereignty.*

"The city's Hoang Sa island district has a plan to build an exhibition hall and we would display the map collection there,&#8221; Son said, adding that the institute plans to show off the collection in the &#8216;Sea and Islands Week' to be held in Khanh Hoa province next April.

Source: VNA

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## djsjs

Viet said:


> *Historic maps support Vietnam's island sovereignty*
> Q&#272;ND - Thursday, October 18, 2012, 21:10 (GMT+7)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _A Chinese map does not include Paracel and Spratly Islands_
> 
> An American with Vietnamese origin will hand over *90 old maps published between 1826 and 1980*, which contain further evidence of Vietnam&#8217;s sovereignty over Hoang Sa (Paracel) and Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelagoes, to Da Nang's Institute for Socio-Economic Development (ISED) next month.
> 
> The maps are part of a collection belonging to the president of the Institute for Vietnamese Culture and Education (IVCE), Tran Thang. The institute is a non-profit organisation founded in New York in 2000.
> 
> ISED vice director Tran Duc Anh Son said the collection of old maps comprises of three kinds of maps:
> *# 68 maps showing that China did not have Hoang Sa and Truong Sa archipelagoes;
> # six maps indicating that those islands belonged to Vietnam;
> # five maps of the Southeast Asian region showing that Hoang Sa and Truong Sa archipelagoes are under Vietnam sovereignty.*
> 
> "The city's Hoang Sa island district has a plan to build an exhibition hall and we would display the map collection there,&#8221; Son said, adding that the institute plans to show off the collection in the &#8216;Sea and Islands Week' to be held in Khanh Hoa province next April.
> 
> Source: VNA


this map makes me feel frustrated.go ask if Mongols agree with the map. and we lost Sakhalin in 1860


----------



## Viet

_The memorial Monument dedicated to members of the Hoang Sa (Paracel) Fleet on Ly Son Island. Photo: VNA_






_The Administrative Headquarters of Vietnam on Hoang Sa (Paracel) Island before 1945_

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Soryu

I just saw this on MP:






user post this who said about: "*Iskander E ???*" and "... somewhere in Vietnam"
If this was real, that'll be big surprise and unbelievable thing.

P/S: don't know where I should post it, so I post it here...

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## EastSea

djsjs said:


> this map makes me feel frustrated.go ask if Mongols agree with the map. and we lost Sakhalin in 1860



The map show that Islands in the past China didn't have Islands Paracel and Spratly. and Mongols and Russian can say in the past China illegally claimed territoriality of them.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Malaya

*PH takes China to UN arbitral tribunal*






MANILA, Philippines  The Department of Foreign Affairs (DFA) on Tuesday announced that the Philippines has taken the step of bringing its West Philippine Sea (South China Sea) territorial disputes to China before an Arbitral Tribunal under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) to achieve a peaceful and durable solution to the disputes. The announcement was made by Foreign Affairs Secretary Albert Del Rosario. 

Del Rosario, in a press conference, said that a note verbale detailing the notification and statement of claim that challenges before the Arbitral Tribunal the validity of Chinas nine-dash claim to almost the entire South China Sea (SCS) including the West Philippine Sea and to desist from unlawful activities that violate the sovereign rights and jurisdiction of the Philippines under the 1982 UNCLOS was handed to Chinese Ambassador to the Philippines Ma Keqing at around 1 p.m. Tuesday.

The Philippines has exhausted almost all political and diplomatic avenues for a peaceful negotiated settlement of its maritime dispute with ChinaTo this day, a solution is still elusive. We hope that the Arbitral Proceedings shall bring this dispute to a durable solution, Del Rosario said. We hope that China would join us in this aspiration, Del Rosario said. Del Rosario noted that Solicitor General Francis H. Jardeleza has been tasked as the legal representative for the Philippines in these Arbitral proceedings. The lead counsel of the Philippines is Paul Reichler of Foley and Hoag LLP, he said.

PH takes China to UN arbitral tribunal | Inquirer Global Nation

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Viet

Malaya said:


> *PH takes China to UN arbitral tribunal*



Respect, go ahead Philippines!

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Malaya

*Philippine Foreign secretary Albert del Rosario (L) and solicitor general Francis Jardeleza during in Manila on January 22, 2013.
*

*Statement: The Secretary of Foreign Affairs on the UNCLOS Arbitral Proceedings against China, January 22, 2013*

*Statement of Secretary Albert del Rosario:*

_On the UNCLOS Arbitral Proceedings against China to achieve a peaceful and durable solution to the dispute in the West Philippine Sea
_
[Released on January 22, 2013]

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen of the print and broadcast media.

I have the honor to introduce to you the Honorable Solicitor General of the Philippines Francis H. Jardeleza who stands with me here today.

This afternoon, the Philippines has taken the step of bringing China before an Arbitral Tribunal under Article 287 and Annex VII of the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) in order to achieve a peaceful and durable solution to the dispute over the West Philippine Sea (WPS).

At around one o&#8217;clock this afternoon, the Chinese Ambassador to the Philippines H.E. Ma Keqing was summoned to the Department of Foreign Affairs and was handed a Note Verbale by Assistant Secretary Teresa Lazaro. The Note Verbale contains the Notification and Statement of Claim that challenges before the Arbitral Tribunal the validity of China&#8217;s nine-dash line claim to almost the entire South China Sea (SCS) including the WPS and to desist from unlawful activities that violate the sovereign rights and jurisdiction of the Philippines under the 1982 UNCLOS.

I furnish you with a copy of the Note Verbale with the Notification and Statement of Claim.

This Notification initiates the arbitral proceedings under Article 287 and Annex VII of UNCLOS.

The initiation of Arbitral Proceedings against China on the nine-dash line is an operationalization of President Aquino&#8217;s policy for a peaceful and rules-based resolution of disputes in the WPS in accordance with international law specifically UNCLOS.

The Philippines has exhausted almost all political and diplomatic avenues for a peaceful negotiated settlement of its maritime dispute with China. On numerous occasions, dating back to 1995, the Philippines has been exchanging views with China to peacefully settle these disputes. To this day, a solution is still elusive. We hope that the Arbitral Proceedings shall bring this dispute to a durable solution.

Our legal position before this UNCLOS Arbitral Tribunal is explained in this carefully crafted Notification and Statement of Claim. I invite the media to study closely the legal document we have given you so as to accurately report on the Philippine legal position.

Allow me, however, to highlight some salient points in the Notification and Statement of Claim:

The Philippines asserts that China&#8217;s so-called nine-dash line claim that encompasses virtually the entire South China Sea/West Philippine Sea is contrary to UNCLOS and thus unlawful.
Within the maritime area encompassed by the 9-dash line, China has also laid claim to, occupied and built structures on certain submerged banks, reefs and low tide elevations that do not qualify as islands under UNCLOS, but are parts of the Philippine continental shelf, or the international seabed. In addition, China has occupied certain small, uninhabitable coral projections that are barely above water at high tide, and which are &#8220;rocks&#8221; under Article 121 (3) of UNCLOS.
China has interfered with the lawful exercise by the Philippines of its rights within its legitimate maritime zones, as well as to the aforementioned features and their surrounding waters.
The Philippines is conscious of China&#8217;s Declaration of August 25, 2008 under Article 298 of UNCLOS (regarding optional exceptions to the compulsory proceedings), and has avoided raising subjects or making claims that China has, by virtue of that Declaration, excluded from arbitral jurisdiction.
In this context, the Philippines is requesting the Arbitral Tribunal to issue an Award that, among others:

- Declares that China&#8217;s rights in regard to maritime areas in the South China Sea, like the rights of the Philippines, are those that are established by UNCLOS, and consist of its rights to a Territorial Sea and Contiguous Zone under Part II of UNCLOS, to an EEZ under Part V, and to a Continental Shelf under Part VI;

- Declares that China&#8217;s maritime claims in the SCS based on its so-called nine-dash line are contrary to UNCLOS and invalid;

- Requires China to bring its domestic legislation into conformity with its obligations under UNCLOS; and

- Requires that China desist from activities that violate the rights of the Philippines in its maritime domain in the West Philippine Sea.

The Philippines asserts that the Arbitral Tribunal has jurisdiction to hear and make an award based on its Notification and Statement of Claim because the dispute is about the interpretation and application by States Parties of their obligations under the UNCLOS. Article 287 (1) of UNCLOS provides that &#8220;settlement of disputes concerning the interpretation and application of this Convention&#8221; may be referred by the Parties for resolution under Part XV of UNCLOS.

The Philippines further asserts that the claim is well founded in fact and law based on the Notification and Statement of Claims and supplementary documents that will be submitted in the course of the arbitral proceedings.

Solicitor General Francis H. Jardeleza is the agent or legal representative for the Philippines in this Arbitral Proceedings. The lead counsel of the Philippines is Mr. Paul Reichler of Foley and Hoag LLP.

The Philippines has always asserted that international law including UNCLOS will be the great equalizer in resolving this dispute over the West Philippine Sea.

While we proceed with the legal track, the Philippines continuous to exert all efforts to move forward and enhance its relations with China on the basis of mutual respect.

We strongly believe that this action is the appropriate response to put our diplomatic relations in its proper context.

We hope that China would join us in this aspiration.

This ends our press briefing, ladies and gentlemen.

We will give you a set of questions with corresponding responses to complete your information.

We thank you as we understand you have a deadline to meet.

Statement: The Secretary of Foreign Affairs on the UNCLOS Arbitral Proceedings against China, January 22, 2013 | Official Gazette of the Republic of the Philippines

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Malaya

Related news

Philippines takes territorial fight with China to international tribunal - CNN.com

BBC News - Philippines 'to take South China Sea row to court'

Philippines Taking S. China Sea Fight to Tribunal | TIME.com

Philippines takes China to United Nations over sea row: Straight Times

Philippines seeks U.N. help to resolve maritime row with China | Reuters

Philippines takes China to UN court over sea row: Voice of Russia

Philippines to bring South China Sea dispute with Beijing to tribunal: The Guardian

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## shuttler

CNTV.cn

*Philippines fines US for stranded ship*

01-22-2013 21:55 BJT

Philippines Transportation and Communications Secretary Joseph Abaya says his countrys government has filed a claim for damages over the grounded US minesweeper "Guardian" in the southern Philippines Reefs.

Authorities say they have fined the US Navy for "non-payment of conservation fee" and "obstruction of law enforcement officer". And they will decide additional fines after the ship has been extricated and the damage to the reefs has been properly assessed.

Experts and authorities say it may take 7-10 days to fully assess the destruction. But according to the World Wide Fund for Nature, the window of opportunity to safely remove the ship is closing fast as rough weather is expected to worsen over the next few days.

*****************************

*Philippines protest against US ship grounding in world heritage site*

01-21-2013 21:50 BJT

CNTV.cn





_Dozens of Filipino environmentalists have held a rally near the US Embassy in Manila._

Dozens of Filipino environmentalists have held a rally near the US Embassy in Manila. They protested against the recent grounding of a US Navy Minesweeper in a world heritage site: the Tubbataha Reef National Park.

Protesters called for the government to junk an agreement between US and Philippine troops to hold joint exercises. The Philippines said Monday it would file damage claims against the US for the damage its vessel has caused. Philippine President Benigno Aquino has given instructions not to allow the US navy to salvage its grounded ship without Philippine involvement, in order to minimize damage to coral reefs.

The USS Guardian struck a coral reef in the early hours of last Thursday. No oil spill has yet been detected. US Navy ships have recently increased visits to Philippine ports, as a result of a redeployment of US forces in the Asia-Pacific region.








Malaya said:


> Related news
> 
> Philippines takes territorial fight with China to international tribunal - CNN.com
> 
> BBC News - Philippines 'to take South China Sea row to court'
> 
> Philippines Taking S. China Sea Fight to Tribunal | TIME.com
> 
> Philippines takes China to United Nations over sea row: Straight Times
> 
> Philippines seeks U.N. help to resolve maritime row with China | Reuters
> 
> Philippines takes China to UN court over sea row: Voice of Russia
> 
> Philippines to bring South China Sea dispute with Beijing to tribunal: The Guardian




What a waste of time and money!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Gooo

What exactly is the UN going to do to China?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

Gooo said:


> What exactly is the UN going to do to China?



Claim of China is illegal, violated terms and conditions of UNCLOS, china has been signed and have to respect it..

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## auspice

shuttler said:


> CNTV.cn
> 
> *Philippines fines US for stranded ship*
> 
> 01-22-2013 21:55 BJT
> 
> Philippines Transportation and Communications Secretary Joseph Abaya says his countrys government has filed a claim for damages over the grounded US minesweeper "Guardian" in the southern Philippines Reefs.
> 
> Authorities say they have fined the US Navy for "non-payment of conservation fee" and "obstruction of law enforcement officer". And they will decide additional fines after the ship has been extricated and the damage to the reefs has been properly assessed.
> 
> Experts and authorities say it may take 7-10 days to fully assess the destruction. But according to the World Wide Fund for Nature, the window of opportunity to safely remove the ship is closing fast as rough weather is expected to worsen over the next few days.
> 
> *****************************
> 
> *Philippines protest against US ship grounding in world heritage site*
> 
> 01-21-2013 21:50 BJT
> 
> CNTV.cn
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Dozens of Filipino environmentalists have held a rally near the US Embassy in Manila._
> 
> Dozens of Filipino environmentalists have held a rally near the US Embassy in Manila. They protested against the recent grounding of a US Navy Minesweeper in a world heritage site: the Tubbataha Reef National Park.
> 
> Protesters called for the government to junk an agreement between US and Philippine troops to hold joint exercises. The Philippines said Monday it would file damage claims against the US for the damage its vessel has caused. Philippine President Benigno Aquino has given instructions not to allow the US navy to salvage its grounded ship without Philippine involvement, in order to minimize damage to coral reefs.
> 
> The USS Guardian struck a coral reef in the early hours of last Thursday. No oil spill has yet been detected. US Navy ships have recently increased visits to Philippine ports, as a result of a redeployment of US forces in the Asia-Pacific region.
> 
> What a waste of time and money!


*Philippines named 'most romantic destination' by Chinese*






PHILIPPINES - It's more romantic in the Philippines. Just ask China.

*Despite the still unresolved dispute over territories in the West Philippine Sea, China seems to be getting chummy with the Philippines on the tourism front.*

Romance is in the air.

The Philippines was named the Most Romantic Destination in a consumer poll of Shanghai Morning Post, a daily circulated in one of China's most densely populated cities, the Department of Foreign Affairs (DFA) said yesterday.

Philippines named 'most romantic destination' by Chinese

Well its more ROMANTIC in the PHILIPPINES to date CHINA in UN. 



Gooo said:


> What exactly is the UN going to do to China?


That should be interesting.

I hope the Chinese have the balls to face the complaint head on and not resort to their trademark strategy of blackmail and intimidation. China has a big land but small mind.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Viet

China repeately annouces that it "has indisputable sovereignty" over the South China Sea islands and adjacent waters, and urges the disputes should be settled by parties concerned through negotiations.

But how can we negotiate if China insists its claim is indisputable? Besides, China´s actions on the ground speak clearly what it has in mind.



Gooo said:


> What exactly is the UN going to do to China?



The conflict is internationalized, things will be more interesting. Who knows at the end of the day, the UN would impose a trade embargo on China.


----------



## djsjs

Viet said:


> China repeately annouces that it "has indisputable sovereignty" over the South China Sea islands and adjacent waters, and urges the disputes should be settled by parties concerned through negotiations.
> 
> But how can we negotiate if China insists its claim is indisputable? Besides, China´s actions on the ground speak clearly what it has in mind.



reject to talk ,so what would you want ?call some accomplices for help as what a rogue always do?


----------



## hurt

Viet said:


> The conflict is internationalized, things will be more interesting. Who knows at the end of the day, the UN would impose a trade embargo on China.



This is so funny,UN would impose a trade embargo on a wielding permanent member.

UN do nothing&#12288;&#65353;&#65358;&#12288;vietnam war&#65292;&#65321;&#65364;&#12288;should be same in South China Sea.


----------



## Viet

djsjs said:


> reject to talk ,so what would you want ?call some accomplices for help as what a *rogue *always do?



As for Vietnam, we continue negotiating with China despite of numerous provocations: cut of our vessel cable, new passport visa with nine dash line, live fire drill military exercise, selling of drilling rights in our EEZ to name a few.

Check again of the definition of a rogue state!

As for Phlippines, it has the right to put the dispute on the international court. China has no say.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zero_wing

hurt said:


> This is so funny,UN would impose a trade embargo on a wielding permanent member.
> 
> UN do nothing&#12288;&#65353;&#65358;&#12288;vietnam war&#65292;&#65321;&#65364;&#12288;should be same in South China Sea.



Then you people have (a lot) noting to worry about! and please all talk no action and your so called economic measure was nothing we Filipinos are still here! Salita lang yan!


----------



## shuttler

Gooo said:


> What exactly is the UN going to do to China?



They cant. The pinoys are presenting themselves another foolish attempt



Viet said:


> Check again of the definition of a rogue state!
> 
> As for Phlippines, it has the right to put the dispute on the international court. China has no say.



rogue state - usa
rogue state followers in asia: japan, vietnam, india, rok, pinoys

as for pinoys, there have no right to claim the islands as we have the historical rights to claim the ownership of the territories


----------



## shuttler

auspice said:


> *Philippines named 'most romantic destination' by Chinese*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PHILIPPINES - It's more romantic in the Philippines. Just ask China.
> 
> *Despite the still unresolved dispute over territories in the West Philippine Sea, China seems to be getting chummy with the Philippines on the tourism front.*
> 
> Romance is in the air.
> 
> The Philippines was named the Most Romantic Destination in a consumer poll of Shanghai Morning Post, a daily circulated in one of China's most densely populated cities, the Department of Foreign Affairs (DFA) said yesterday.
> 
> Philippines named 'most romantic destination' by Chinese
> 
> Well its more ROMANTIC in the PHILIPPINES to date CHINA in UN.



LOL, a little bit of favour from us for your impoverished state. We are not against the people of the Philippines in whom we have plenty of successful ethnic folks there. Your president is a boot licking idiot who relishes his former colonial master for a very small pittance return




> That should be interesting.
> 
> I hope the Chinese have the balls to face the complaint head on and not resort to their trademark strategy of blackmail and intimidation. China has a big land but small mind.



let's see what going to happen pinoy ( or a false flagger)! All the best you are doing is to create nuisance and toiling for a joke!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## djsjs

Viet said:


> As for Vietnam, we continue negotiating with China despite of numerous provocations: cut of our vessel cable, new passport visa with nine dash line, live fire drill military exercise, selling of drilling rights in our EEZ to name a few.
> 
> Check again of the definition of a rogue state!



really? You gave your govement a slap in the face as it has already claimed it a accident.btw,where is your so called world No.3 army?don't they well payed?


----------



## hurt

Zero_wing said:


> Then you people have (a lot) noting to worry about! and please all talk no action and your so called economic measure was nothing we Filipinos are still here! Salita lang yan!



Filipinos already disappeared in Huangyan Island&#12290;

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

hurt said:


> Filipinos already *disappeared *in Huangyan Island&#12290;



That makes us more wariness of difference between China´s talk and action on the ground.





_somewhere in the South China Sea_


----------



## hurt

Viet said:


> That makes us more wariness of difference between China´s talk and action on the ground.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _somewhere in the South China Sea_



LOL

The difference between you give back and we get it back by myself.


----------



## Malaya

shuttler said:


> They cant. *The pinoys are presenting themselves another foolish attempt*
> rogue state - usa
> rogue state followers in asia: japan, vietnam, india, rok, pinoys
> as for *pinoys, there have no right to claim the islands as we have the historical rights to claim the ownership of the territories*


Then why are you afraid to have this arbitrated in international tribunal? In UN court both parties can lay each other's grounds. Let's see which argument is stronger, as simple as that. The Philippines will tell you that the Philippines all along has been administering this area since it became a country. What is only obvious is that China's greed has gone beyond everyone's imagination. If China will reject Manila's suggestion then its just an indication that it cannot validate its territorial claim.



shuttler said:


> LOL, a little bit of favour from us for your impoverished state. We are not against the people of the Philippines in whom we have plenty of successful ethnic folks there. *Your president is a boot licking idiot who relishes his former colonial master for a very small pittance return*



This filing of the complaint at UNCLOS is the much awaited move of our Filipino-Chinese President to once and for all expunge everyone's cynicism of his real motive anent China's intrusion in the West Philippine Sea. Such endeavor to seek solution from the UN is the legal process, it promotes peace and harmony to all nation claimants.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Zero_wing

hurt said:


> Filipinos already disappeared in Huangyan Island&#12290;



You kidding me so what the hell is this then:
Philippine Coast Guard outsmarted 8 Chinese Ships en route Scarborough Shoal

Philippine Coast Guard outsmarted 8 Chinese Ships en route Scarborough Shoal.avi - YouTube

What's wrong did the government not like this too bad island daw yung bato? that so stupid! is a shoal not an island! even that you don't even know my god so pathetic? Enjoy the video losers!


----------



## Malaya

China should be mindful with their response with regard to Philippines action, otherwise it would contradict to their statement that they want to resolve the dispute in a peaceful manner which is by the way the *UN is the means to settle this peacefully* when all methods had been exhausted.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## shuttler

Malaya said:


> Then why are you afraid to have this arbitrated in international tribunal? In UN court both parties can lay each other's grounds. Let's see which argument is stronger, as simple as that. The Philippines will tell you that the Philippines all along has been administering this area since it became a country. What is only obvious is that China's greed has gone beyond everyone's imagination. If China will reject Manila's suggestion then it&#8217;s just an indication that it cannot validate its territorial claim.
> 
> 
> 
> *This filing of the complaint at UNCLOS is the much awaited move of our Filipino-Chinese President to once and for all expunge everyone's cynicism of his real motive anent China's intrusion in the West Philippine Sea. Such endeavor to seek solution from the UN is the legal process, it promotes peace and harmony to all nation claimants*.



We wont bat an eyelash for it. I repeat: You are wasting your time and money. Back off and out and dont continue playing an american puppet. Then we help build your country which is devastated by the imperialists!


----------



## Zero_wing

shuttler said:


> We wont bat an eyelash for it. I repeat: You are wasting your time and money. Back off and out and dont continue playing an american puppet. Then we help build your country which is devastated by the imperialists!



Wow really great counter argument see the UN suckers and don't hid in your wife underpants Come on really? if were American puppets they would better armed us like they did in 1950s They been trying their best to not give us even the most modest equipment in the first place! why do you think we just got two cutters while other countries are offering us warship fully armed and complete with spare parts and other high grade weapons? so that alone defeats your argument! Other is we are Nation of Islands under International law we have first priority over islands we control and china does not have any control over this islands and china last time i check is a land lock country so tell me when did you become an archipelago nation? and really i remember we kick your @$$ all the way in that time you know Korean War Gangnam Style may i add. Please American puppets that counter argument? That so lame! that's your best argument! Help strip us with our natural resources without paying taxes is what your doing here and in Africa and others that your helping quote and quote stealing from. Helping my country what a joke! The Japanese are doing that The American the European Union they are helping your kind are just exploiting and importing cheap copy paste products sino ginagago niyo? please! Typical Chinese Imperialist trying to copy every known bad guy in history and you people say the Japanese are worse? and even advocate to exterminate them in the 21st century for something that their old people did yup that solves everything? Killing people so (un)civilized of you folks.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Malaya

Imagine a neighborhood is neighbor &#8220;A&#8221; just recently got rich and managed to purchase some guns. Then he got quite confident and tried to harass neighbor &#8220;B&#8221; regarding some disputes over land and just grab it, against the rules of the neighborhood. Naturally the whole neighborhood would support neighbor &#8220;B&#8221; because NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW. Unfortunately neighbor &#8220;A&#8221; is just too greedy, and just plainly do not recognize the law of the neighborhood. 

Ultimately we can predict that what will happen is that the neighborhood would decide to contain the aggressiveness of neighbor &#8220;A&#8221;. This is the most plausible scenario of the future.

If the thief really wants peace he shouldn't have stolen in the first place. Fake maps and history wont stand in court, so now its only option is to take it by force. Now it looks like the land grabber is telling the land owner, "if you go to court, you are a trouble maker and american puppet". What a twisted logic it has.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zero_wing

Malaya said:


> Imagine a neighborhood is neighbor &#8220;A&#8221; just recently got rich and managed to purchase some guns. Then he got quite confident and tried to harass neighbor &#8220;B&#8221; regarding some disputes over land and just grab it, against the rules of the neighborhood. Naturally the whole neighborhood would support neighbor &#8220;B&#8221; because NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW. Unfortunately neighbor &#8220;A&#8221; is just too greedy, and just plainly do not recognize the law of the neighborhood.
> 
> Ultimately we can predict that what will happen is that the neighborhood would decide to contain the aggressiveness of neighbor &#8220;A&#8221;. This is the most plausible scenario of the future.
> 
> If the thief really wants peace he shouldn't have stolen in the first place. Fake maps and history wont stand in court, so now its only option is to take it by force. Now it looks like the land grabber is telling the land owner, "if you go to court, you are a trouble maker and american puppet". What a twisted logic it has.



Wala pare gayan yung tao wala alam na nagmamurunog parang sawa lang bad trip lang mga yan wala na sila ma sosoto hahahaaha


----------



## Malaya

Zero_wing said:


> Wala pare gayan yung tao wala alam na nagmamurunog parang sawa lang bad trip lang mga yan wala na sila ma sosoto hahahaaha


Tama ka dyan kabayan ayaw nila ng mapayapang paraan eh, gusto nila may kasamang dahas. Porket malakas sila at mahina kalaban nila eh kakayan kayanin lang nila tayo, Ayaw lumaban ng patas kasi alam nila talo sila. Pakshet na mga tsekwang yan! demonyo

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

*HSV- 6613 Ocean surveillance ship*, designed by the Damen Group (Netherlands) and constructed at the Song Thu Company (Vietnam)

Displacement: 1,500 tons full load
Length: 66.3 metres
Beam: 13.2 metres
Speed: up to 10 knots (12 mph)
Range: 5,000 nautical miles
Endurance: 60 days
Name: Tran Dai Nghia Ocean surveillance ship

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## hurt

Zero_wing said:


> You kidding me so what the hell is this then:
> Philippine Coast Guard outsmarted 8 Chinese Ships en route Scarborough Shoal
> 
> Philippine Coast Guard outsmarted 8 Chinese Ships en route Scarborough Shoal.avi - YouTube
> 
> What's wrong did the government not like this too bad island daw yung bato? that so stupid! is a shoal not an island! even that you don't even know my god so pathetic? Enjoy the video losers!





Published on Jun 19, 2012


----------



## Zero_wing

hurt said:


> Published on Jun 19, 2012



So were still doing as i post so no dice on you


----------



## Viet

*Spratly Islands (Vietnam)
*





Amboyna Cay






Pearson Reef






West London Reef






Collins Reef






Landsdowne Reef






Namyit Island






Sin Cowe Island






Cornwallis South Reef

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Viet

*Spratly Islands (Vietnam)*

One of the most beautiful islands




South West Cay

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## hurt

Zero_wing said:


> So were still doing as i post so no dice on you



In your dream?



Viet said:


> *Spratly Islands (Vietnam)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> South West Cay




Do not worry.will be soon


----------



## Viet

hurt said:


> Do not worry.will be soon



Don´t act stupid things! 

All islands are strongly defended: by airforce, naval surface ships, submarines, coastal cruise missiles (e.i. SS-N-26 Yakhont anti-ship missiles, range of 300km) and mobile marine corps. Second, we patrol the South China Sea regularly with Sukhoi Su-27 Flanker. Third, the entire sea region is monitored by our marine defence platforms.

Vietnam's military buildup in the South China Sea


----------



## Soryu

Viet said:


> Don´t act stupid things!
> 
> All islands are strongly defended: by airforce, naval surface ships, submarines, coastal cruise missiles (e.i. SS-N-26 Yakhont anti-ship missiles, range of 300km) and mobile marine corps. Second, we patrol the South China Sea regularly with Sukhoi Su-27 Flanker. Third, the entire sea region is monitored by our marine defence platforms.
> 
> Vietnam's military buildup in the South China Sea


Don't worry bro, his orgasm just got too long, and when he wake up, he'll drying because truth in real life. 
P/S: China will got nothing with his mouth.


----------



## hurt

Viet said:


> Don´t act stupid things!
> 
> All islands are strongly defended: by airforce, naval surface ships, submarines, coastal cruise missiles (e.i. SS-N-26 Yakhont anti-ship missiles, range of 300km) and mobile marine corps. Second, we patrol the South China Sea regularly with Sukhoi Su-27 Flanker. Third, the entire sea region is monitored by our marine defence platforms.
> 
> Vietnam's military buildup in the South China Sea



strongly defended
airforce
naval surface ships
submarines
coastal cruise missiles 
mobile marine corps
Su-27 
puny

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

@hurt

why is all so funny? oh, I failed to mention of sea mines.


----------



## Malaya

*Palace confident PHL-China ties will remain strong*

Malacañang does not expect the country's relationship with China to sour despite the Department of Foreign Affairs' (DFA) decision to bring the long-standing territorial dispute to international arbitration.

*&#8220;Let me emphasize that this is not the end-all and be-all of RP-China relations,&#8221; *presidential spokesperson Edwin Lacierda said at a briefing Wednesday.

DFA's decision to bring the issue to the UN arbitration body was the strongest step taken by the Aquino administration against perceived Chinese aggression in the West Philippine Sea.

But according to maritime laws expert Prof. Jay Batongbacal of the UP Law Center, the government can only "hope" that what the DFA did will not have adverse effects on Philippine-China relations.

In an interview on "24 Oras" aired on Wednesday, Batongbacal said DFA's move "can possibly increase tension."

"Sinabi na nila (China) last year na they may not like this and they may consider it a provocative act," Batongbacal said. "We can only hope that this will not affect trade, this will not affect cultural exchanges, etc."

Lacierda said the Philippines and China have relationships in many levels.

*"We have an active engagement with China in other matters, in other fields, and so we abstract this issue of the West Philippine Sea from our RP-China relations as a whole and we believe that we can continue to move forward in our people-to-people engagement, in our trade relations with China,&#8221;* he said.

Lacierda believes Chinese officials share his opinion.

*"This is not the crux of our RP-China relations and China itself does not intend to view the RP-China relations as the West Philippine Sea [as] our only issue. When we visited [China], for instance, both [Interior and Local Government] Secretary Mar Roxas and Mr. Xi Jinping agreed on that this is not the end-all and be-all of China-RP relations,&#8221;* he said.

For security expert Rommel Banlaoi, it all boils down to proper explanation by the Philippines to China.

"Dapat maipalawag natin sa China na we value our relationship, na we recognize China as our important neighbor, an we value the role of China as a major power in the maintenance of regional peace and instability," he said in the "24 Oras" report.

"But at the same time, we have difference sa issue ng South China and we want to settle this in a peaceful manner and that is why we are putting that in international arbitration

Lacierda, meanwhile, touted China&#8217;s recent declaration of the Philippines as the most romantic destination for tourists.

*&#8220;By the way, China just called us the &#8216;most romantic&#8217; destination. So we are very romantic and we will continue to spread the romance to our Chinese friends,&#8221;* Lacierda said, implying that tourist arrivals will not be affected despite the pending case between China and the Philippines.

The Philippines and China have been locked in a territorial dispute over the Panatag (Scarborough) Shoal since April.

Both countries are also among six claimants to the Spratly Islands, which China calls Nansha Islands. The other claimants include Brunei, Malaysia, Taiwan, and Vietnam.

The Aquino administration earlier favored peaceful negotiations and country-to-country relations with China in resolving the dispute. It elevated the issue to the international arbitration in protest of China&#8217;s so-called nine-dash claim to almost the entire South China Sea, including the West Philippine Sea. &#8212; Patricia Denise Chiu/KBK, GMA News

Palace confident PHL-China ties will remain strong | News | GMA News Online | The Go-To Site for Filipinos Everywhere


----------



## shuttler

Zero_wing said:


> Wow really great counter argument see the UN suckers and don't hid in your wife underpants Come on really? if were American puppets they would better armed us like they did in 1950s They been trying their best to not give us even the most modest equipment in the first place! why do you think we just got two cutters while other countries are offering us warship fully armed and complete with spare parts and other high grade weapons? so that alone defeats your argument!
> 
> Other is we are Nation of Islands under International law we have first priority over islands we control and china does not have any control over this islands and china last time i check is a land lock country so tell me when did you become an archipelago nation? and really i remember we kick your @$$ all the way in that time you know Korean War Gangnam Style may i add. Please American puppets that counter argument? That so lame! that's your best argument! Help strip us with our natural resources without paying taxes is what your doing here and in Africa and others that your helping quote and quote stealing from. Helping my country what a joke! The Japanese are doing that The American the European Union they are helping your kind are just exploiting and importing cheap copy paste products sino ginagago niyo? please! Typical Chinese Imperialist trying to copy every known bad guy in history and you people say the Japanese are worse? and even advocate to exterminate them in the 21st century for something that their old people did yup that solves everything? Killing people so (un)civilized of you folks.



There is no argument in the first place poor pinoy. you cant resort to calling your family members to strengthen your babbling. The islands belong to China period

Your stupid president doesnt even know the criteria for claiming sovereignty of the islands and the useless effect of filing sh^t with the tribunal.

and your colonial dad who gave you a piece of second hand junk with which you are licking it like ice-cream! hahaha!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## hurt

Viet said:


> @hurt
> 
> why is all so funny? oh, I failed to mention of sea mines.



airforce: 12 Su-27 24 Su-30 some MiG-21bis Su-22M
naval surface ships: 2 Gepard 3.9,2 Molniya class,6 Tarantul-I class 
submarines:0-6
coastal cruise missiles :40 SS-N-26 
mobile marine corps 
Su-27 :12 

overestimate yourself


----------



## shuttler

Viet said:


> *&#21335;&#27801;&#32676;&#23707; Nansha qundao &#65288;China&#65289;*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amboyna Cay
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pearson Reef
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> West London Reef
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Collins Reef
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Landsdowne Reef
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Namyit Island
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sin Cowe Island
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cornwallis South Reef



These are sheds good for holding our construction teams for their rebuilding of the shoals, archipelagoes,reefs, atolls. Tell your government to offer a price of those structures. We shall pay for them upon our occupation of the territories


----------



## shuttler

Viet said:


> *&#21335;&#27801;&#32676;&#23707; Nansha qundao (China)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> South West Cay



We will turn that into our fishermen's harbour in due course.


----------



## shuttler

Viet said:


> *HSV- 6613 Ocean surveillance ship*, designed by the Damen Group (Netherlands) and constructed at the Song Thu Company (Vietnam)
> 
> Displacement: 1,500 tons full load
> Length: 66.3 metres
> Beam: 13.2 metres
> Speed: up to 10 knots (12 mph)
> Range: 5,000 nautical miles
> Endurance: 60 days
> Name: Tran Dai Nghia Ocean surveillance ship



where do you get your engine, radar and steel plates from?


----------



## Zero_wing

shuttler said:


> There is no argument in the first place poor pinoy. you cant resort to calling your family members to strengthen your babbling. The islands belong to China period
> 
> Your stupid president doesnt even know the criteria for claiming sovereignty of the islands and the useless effect of filing sh^t with the tribunal.
> 
> and your colonial dad who gave you a piece of second hand junk with which you are licking it like ice-cream! hahaha!



Really? thank you for proving my point of china real colors thank you very much

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

shuttler said:


> where do you get your engine, radar and steel plates from?



Do you work for the government of China?


----------



## Viet

hurt said:


> airforce: 12 Su-27 24 Su-30 *some MiG-21bis Su-22M*
> naval surface ships: 2 Gepard 3.9,2 Molniya class,6 Tarantul-I class
> submarines:0-6
> coastal cruise missiles :40 SS-N-26
> mobile marine corps
> Su-27 :12
> 
> overestimate yourself




Dude, don´t laugh, we have enough strength to discourage any venture from China! You are free to fire the first shot.

We have some surprises for you, such as this: our 200 MIG-21s and 145 Sukhoi Su-22s can carry antiship missiles from type Kh-25 (SS-N-25 'Switchblade') being capable to sink any ships in the South China Sea.





_Su-22M4 carries two KH-25 missile (photo : ttvnol)_





_Kh-25 cruise missle
_
Vietnam Fighter Get More New Missiles - RP Defense

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## shuttler

Viet said:


> Do you work for the government of China?



No. 
Why?

So you dont have the info!


----------



## Viet

shuttler said:


> No.
> Why?
> So you dont have the info!



Because of your aggressive comments some posts earlier.
Correct, I searched but did not find any source. However, I am pretty sure, all is made in Vietnam.

The surveillance ship is driven by 4 diesel engines. Since 2010 the Vietnamese company VINASHIN can produce Mitsubishi low-speed marine diesel engines (each 6,230 kW or 8,400 bhp) under License.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## shuttler

Viet said:


> Because of your aggressive comments some posts earlier.



No. I was stating what is our viewpoint on the subject matter



> Correct, I searched but did not find any source. However, I am pretty sure, all is made in Vietnam.





> The surveillance ship is driven by 4 diesel engines. Since 2010 the Vietnamese company VINASHIN can produce Mitsubishi low-speed marine diesel engines (each 6,230 kW or 8,400 bhp) under License.



I am sure Vietnam is capable of doing that. It is looking rather sturdy and as a surveillance / patrol boat, the radar is important.

The CCTV news here has disclosed your country's acquisition of some 300-range very powerful missiles from Russia. You are deploying the missiles in your northern border with us and they can reach the province capital of Guangxi.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

shuttler said:


> The CCTV news here has disclosed your country's acquisition of some 300-range very powerful missiles from Russia. You are deploying the missiles in your northern border with us and they can reach the province capital of Guangxi.



Come on, China military is much more powerful, we will never start a war, you probably know that. Besides, since last year China has set up a new missile brigade in its southern province of Guangdong, with long range missiles (1,200 km) that can hit Vietnam´s capital Hanoi.

What is your opinion?

http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-far-east/191978-china-forms-missile-brigade-south-china-sea.html

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Audio

> LONDON  U.S. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta called on NATO to become a more flexible fighting force that can tackle a broad range of conflicts and urged European allies to join the Pentagons shift to the Asia-Pacific region.



Panetta: NATO Needs to Join U.S. Rebalance to Asia-Pacific | Defense News |

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

shuttler said:


> No. I was stating what is our viewpoint on the subject matter
> I am sure Vietnam is capable of doing that. It is looking rather sturdy and as a surveillance / patrol boat, the radar is important.
> 
> The CCTV news here has disclosed your country's acquisition of some 300-range very powerful missiles from Russia. You are deploying the missiles in your northern border with us and they can reach the province capital of Guangxi.


What's missiles!? If it's about Iskander-E, I don't think we will aim a big target like city. (If Vietnam really had that Tactical Ballistic Missile)


Viet said:


> Come on, China military is much more powerful, we will never start a war, you probably know that. Besides, since last year China has set up a new missile brigade in its southern province of Guangdong, with long range missiles (1,200 km) that can hit Vietnam´s capital Hanoi.
> 
> What is your opinion?
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-far-east/191978-china-forms-missile-brigade-south-china-sea.html


Don't worry, we still hold one S-300 battalion at Hanoi, and we'll get S-300PMU-2, soon.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Malaya

*House, Senate pass resolution backing case vs China*






MANILA, Philippines - The Senate and the House of Representatives approved separate resolutions on Wednesday expressing support for President Aquino&#8217;s decision to file an arbitration case against China as the last option for a peaceful settlement of the West Philippine Sea dispute.

The Senate passed Senate Resolution 931 while the House unanimously adopted House Resolution 3004.

&#8220;The Philippines has exhausted almost all available tools, mechanisms and fora for the peaceful settlement of the disputes with China under its three-track approach, namely: political, diplomatic and legal track, which includes inviting China to bring the matter peacefully under any of the available dispute settlement mechanisms under Part 15 of UNCLOS (United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea),&#8221; the resolution stated.

&#8220;China&#8217;s claim in the West Philippine Sea under the nine-dash line is expansive and inconsistent with the provisions of UNCLOS,&#8221; it said.

The Senate noted that the nine-dash line claim of China encroaches on the legitimate maritime entitlements of the Philippines and other coastal states in the South China Sea, &#8220;thus violating their legitimate rights under international law, specifically UNCLOS.&#8221;

Both China and the Philippines are signatories to the UNCLOS, which prescribes the maritime entitlements of coastal states in terms of territorial sea contiguous zone, 200-mile exclusive economic zone and continental shelf.

Senators lamented that China has steadily and forcefully asserted its nine-dash line claim in the West Philippine Sea despite protests by the Philippine government.

The Senate said the utilization of the option of international arbitration does not preclude the Philippines from continuing to explore and utilize other possible modalities in its three-track approach for the peaceful settlement of disputes in the West Philippine Sea.

Majority Leader Vicente Sotto III introduced the Senate resolution after a recent briefing with Palace officials and the leaders of Congress at Malacañang.

The House resolution, which was authored by Speaker Feliciano Belmonte Jr., called on Filipinos to unite to protect the sovereign rights and jurisdiction of the Philippines in the disputed area.

Co-authored by Majority Leader Neptali Gonzales and Minority Leader Danilo Suarez of Quezon, the resolution said the Philippines has no other recourse but to institute compulsory arbitration proceedings against China.

China declined an earlier offer of the Philippines to bring the matter peacefully under any of the available dispute settlement mechanisms under Part 15 of UNCLOS, it stated.

&#8220;China violates not only the rights and jurisdictions of the Philippines but also of other coastal states by claiming virtually the entire South China Sea through its nine-dash line claim. China further violates the rights and jurisdictions of the Philippines through its continuous aggressive assertion of its nine-dash line claim in the West Philippine Sea,&#8217;&#8221; the House resolution said.

*No choice*

Malacañang said the Philippines has no choice but to seek third party intervention because of Beijing&#8217;s &#8220;firm and stubborn&#8221; nine-dash claim.

Presidential spokesman Edwin Lacierda said Manila&#8217;s decision to go to the United Nations would not complicate matters but show its commitment to a peaceful resolution of the dispute.

&#8220;There are three tracks that we&#8217;re exploring. We have approached it from the diplomatic, from the political, now we&#8217;re availing of the legal approach,&#8221; Lacierda said.

&#8220;It does not take away the fact that in the diplomatic (track) we&#8217;re still part of the ASEAN. We&#8217;re continuing to draft the Code of Conduct for the South China Sea,&#8221; he added. ASEAN refers to the ten-member Association of Southeast Asian Nations.

Lacierda said the best option to resolve the situation at this time is &#8220;to go to an arbitral tribunal, a third party where the rule of law and a rules-based approach to resolve the disputes can be made.&#8221;

*&#8216;No effect&#8217;*

The Department of Foreign Affairs (DFA) is optimistic that the action of the government will have no effect on its bilateral relations.

&#8220;We&#8217;re positive that we&#8217;ll be focused on enhancing relationship as far as trade and investment are concerned,&#8221; DFA spokesman Raul Hernandez said.

A Chinese state-owned news agency report said observers consider Manila&#8217;s high-profile lawsuit as &#8220;political posturing&#8221; and it has shown little willingness for one-on-one negotiations on relevant disputes.

In a China Daily report, Yang Baoyun, an expert on Southeast Asian studies at Peking University, said the international court would take the case seriously on the precondition that both parties approve the case, adding that Manila knows Beijing is unlikely to respond.

Beijing, in response to the Philippines&#8217; seeking United Nations arbitration over its territorial claims, has warned Manila against any moves that may complicate or escalate tensions between the two nations.

Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong Lei said on Wednesday that Beijing supports bilateral negotiation with the countries involved. With Aurea Calica, Pia Lee-Brago

http://www.philstar.com/headlines/2...-senate-pass-resolution-backing-case-vs-china

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Viet

*Spratly Islands Occupation status*

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Fsjal

shuttler said:


> where do you get your engine, radar and steel plates from?



Probably Russia. Vietnam does not have capability to make the radar.



Viet said:


> Don´t act stupid things!
> 
> All islands are strongly defended: by airforce, naval surface ships, submarines, coastal cruise missiles (e.i. SS-N-26 Yakhont anti-ship missiles, range of 300km) and mobile marine corps. Second, we patrol the South China Sea regularly with Sukhoi Su-27 Flanker. Third, the entire sea region is monitored by our marine defence platforms.
> 
> Vietnam's military buildup in the South China Sea



Do not underestimate China. The Chinese have YJ-12 missiles that are more advance than SS-N-26 and your Su-27 is no match for J-11B, J-31 and J-20. 

Also China's marines are more trained and have better tech.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Fsjal

Viet said:


> That makes us more wariness of difference between China´s talk and action on the ground.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _somewhere in the South China Sea_



Hahahahahahahahahahaha. Looks like from some video game.


----------



## Viet

Fsjal said:


> Hahahahahahahahahahaha. Looks like from some video game.



No, it is reality. Look again you troll, pic was taken at sundown. Here is another pic of our twin defence platforms in the SCS:

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Soryu

Viet said:


> No, it is reality. Look again you troll, pic was taken at sundown. Here is another pic of our twin defence platforms in the SCS:


Keep post it bros, great pic. I want see what could China do with some big mouth here! 
It's just fool troll, let he act for this thread more funny a bit with this China clown.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## WuMaoCleverbot

*Aquino alleges China harassed Philippine boats*

Agence France-Presse
6:41 pm | Saturday, January 26th, 2013

MANILA, PhilippinesPresident Benigno Aquino has accused China of harassing two Philippine fishing boats in disputed West Philippine Sea (South China Sea) waters, allegedly driving out one that had sheltered from rough seas.

Speaking on the sidelines of the World Economic Forum in Switzerland, Aquino said the two Scarborough Shoal incidents had led to Manila seeking United Nations arbitration this week over the territorial dispute.

Aquino, who did not say when the incidents occurred, said Chinese vessels approached to within nine meters (10 yards) of a Filipino fishing boat near the shoal.

While they (Chinese vessels) were approaching, their horns were supposedly blaring at full blast, causing apprehension to our fishing vessel, he said, according to a transcript released by the government on Saturday.

A second Filipino boat was driven out by Chinese vessels shortly after it took shelter near the shoal, he added.
*According to the affidavit (crews depositions), they were told to go back to the rough waters.*

The shoal, located closer to the Philippine island of Luzon than the Chinese mainland, has been a source of friction since April last year when Chinese vessels stopped the Philippine Navy from arresting alleged Chinese poachers.

Aquino, saying only that the incidents were the latest in a series of assertive Chinese actions in the area, stressed the Scarborough Shoal  which Manila calls Bajo de Masinloc and China calls Huangyan island  and its surrounding waters are part of the Philippines exclusive economic zone.

China claims most of the West Philippine Sea, including waters and islands close to the shores of its neighbours.
Foreign Secretary Albert del Rosario however this week said Manila had taken China to a UN tribunal to challenge its claim to most of the sea, including territory belonging to the archipelago, and would ask the arbitration panel to declare Chinese claims in the area invalid.

Aquino said he could not allow China to claim effective control over Bajo de Masinloc by ordering our vessels out, as this could encourage Beijing to move into the Philippine-claimed and allegedly resource-rich Reed Bank.

*We are not threatening anybody, but if we dont stand up for our rights, who do we expect will be standing up for our rights? Aquino said.*

Chinas embassy spokesmen could not be reached for comment Saturday.

Aquino alleges China harassed Philippine boats | Inquirer Global Nation


*"Isole Dell' Indie, diuise in Filippine, Molucche, e della Sonda..." *
created in the 1690s by Vincenzo Maria Coronelliin in Venice






Isole Dell&#39; Indie, diuise in Filippine, Molucche, e della Sonda . . . - Barry Lawrence Ruderman Antique Maps Inc.

A 1690"s map showing Spratlys as part of the Philippines.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## WuMaoCleverbot

*Arbitration*
SKETCHES By Ana Marie Pamintuan | Updated January 28, 2013 - 12:00am

People are asking whether the Philippine case has any chance of success. Perhaps the Aquino administration was inspired by the success of Bangladesh in taking its maritime dispute with Myanmar to the International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea (ITLOS).

After 38 years of feuding with Myanmar, Bangladesh brought the case to the ITLOS in October 2009. On March 14 last year, the tribunal, voting 21 to 1, handed down its final verdict, which cannot be appealed: Bangladesh has an exclusive economic zone (EEZ) in the Bay of Bengal covering 111,000 square kilometers, plus an exclusive 12-mile territorial sea around St. Martin&#8217;s Island.

*The Philippines, according to the DFA, also got tired of talking with the Chinese and getting nowhere.*

Bangladesh is waiting for another ITLOS ruling, expected next year, in its dispute with India over the western part of the Bay of Bengal.

As far away as South America, where Peru has brought Chile to the International Court of Justice (ICJ) in The Hague, the progress of the Philippine action is being watched.

The case filed by Peru two years ago involves moving national boundaries drawn in the sea and based on a continental shelf shared by the two countries. If this dispute can be resolved, our claim should be easier to settle.

The Philippines chose the UN arbitral tribunal over the ICJ, ITLOS and special arbitral tribunal.

Last Wednesday DFA officials briefed foreign ambassadors about the Philippine move. The diplomats mostly wanted to know if the decision of the arbitral tribunal would be binding on China. Yes, according to the DFA, although some neutral diplomats aren&#8217;t so sure if this is the case in matters involving China&#8217;s national security, for example.

A Q&A released by the DFA explained the goals of the case: &#8220;We hope that the arbitral tribunal will issue an award in accordance with international law that will direct China to respect our sovereign rights and jurisdiction over our EEZ, continental shelf, contiguous zone, and territorial sea over the West Philippine Sea, and to desist from undertaking unlawful acts that violate our rights.&#8221;

I&#8217;ve been told that the Philippine challenge is meant chiefly to clarify the country&#8217;s maritime entitlements and not to settle the territorial dispute. But winning the case will bolster our territorial claims, allow us to freely exploit all resources within our EEZ, and keep out intruders, whose EEZ we don&#8217;t encroach on or claim as our own.

All countries should welcome peaceful mechanisms, based on rules agreed upon by the international community, to settle such disputes. Armed conflict is costly; only the defense industry benefits from it.

Even China should support this mechanism, which it can tap to settle its maritime dispute with its neighbor Japan.

A news report from Davos, Switzerland last week said senior Chinese planning official Zhang Xiaoqiang had told the World Economic Forum that his country wanted to &#8220;build up more global development partnerships.&#8221;

Zhang said China would &#8220;continue to play an important role as a responsible developing country.&#8221;

*Responsible players on the world stage should have no problem abiding by international rules.*

As the dinner hosted by the Chinese for Basilio showed, the maritime dispute should not stop other aspects of friendly bilateral relations from moving on.

Arbitration | Opinion, News, The Philippine Star | philstar.com

*P-Noy&#8217;s actions on Panatag based on law, sovereignty*
GOTCHA By Jarius Bondoc | Updated January 28, 2013 - 12:00am

Tummy before sovereignty. That&#8217;s an emerging line against Philippine repulsion of China&#8217;s sea incursions. Tycoon Manny Pangilinan reissued his statement for joint economic use of marine resources. This, after President Noynoy Aquino decided to take the sovereignty issue to the United Nations arbitral tribunal.

Pangilinan says his is a practical and moral question: &#8220;Are you prepared to set aside, but not surrender, your claim of sovereignty over the area, so you could go on and develop the area jointly? Or should you stick to the moral position that this is ours, no matter what happens? In which case, quite likely, it will never be developed, at least not in our lifetime.&#8221;

Pangilinan is referring to the Recto (Reed) Bank west of Palawan, an oil reserve where Malacañang has allowed his firm to extract. China is claiming the entire South China (West Philippine) Sea, and has been chasing Filipino scientific and fishing vessels out of the area. Pangilinan is in preliminary talks for China&#8217;s offshore oil state firm jointly to mine his concession.

Aquino took the UN route last week due to China&#8217;s invasion of Panatag (Scarborough) Shoal, west of Zambales. Invoking a baseless nine-dash line map, China has been driving Filipino fishermen away from their traditional fishing grounds. Panatag is closer to Luzon than Recto is to Palawan.

The President explains his decision: &#8220;If we don&#8217;t do this approach then, what is the next step (in China&#8217;s seizure of Philippine reefs and shoals)? Is it Recto Bank next? What else? We&#8217;ve been, I think, very patient. We believe we&#8217;ve been complying with the request in the interest of maintaining good relations. But unfortunately, there has been no reciprocation. Hence, I am, by workings of the Constitution, and by the oath that I undertook, I swore to defend this country, and we are doing this under international law, in a peaceful manner.&#8221;

Aquino knows that the Baselines Law expressly declares Panatag as part of the national territory. The President is sworn to defend the national territory. The President does so either by going to war against the invader or bringing it to UN dispute settlement. He has chosen the peaceful route that is in fact preferred by international law. It is a wise decision. For, the Philippines can defeat China in the legal arena, but not (yet) in naval war in the South China Sea.

Recto Bank is within the Philippines&#8217; 200-mile exclusive economic zone under the UN Law of the Sea. The Constitution deems the resources in the EEZ to belong to the State (read: Filipino people). It mandates the State to protect the marine wealth in the nation&#8217;s archipelagic waters, territorial sea, and EEZ, for the exclusive use of Filipinos.

Joint use has been China&#8217;s slogan for two decades about Panatag and Recto. Meaning, it wants 50-percent share in the resources within the Philippine EEZ. Yet it reserves exclusively to itself its own EEZ. In effect, *China is telling the Philippines: &#8220;What is yours is mine, but what is mine is mine alone. If you disagree, then my Navy will stop you from enjoying your own resources.&#8221;*

Must Filipinos repel China&#8217;s bullying? Some disagree, arguing that the hungry hordes cannot eat sovereignty. For them, sating the mortal tummy is nobler than securing the nation. Such line is so pathetically patay-gutom (desperate).

http://www.philstar.com/opinion/2013/01/28/901865/p-noys-actions-panatag-based-law-sovereignty

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

Spratlys (Vietnam) - landing on a defence platform, taking the sick to the hospital on a Spratly Island.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Malaya

*East Sea tensions heat up as Philippines approaches UN tribunal *






China stands to either lose the propaganda war or get embroiled in an awkward tussle neither party is likely to win as the Philippines prepares to ask that a UN tribunal intervene in the long-festering territorial dispute in the East Sea, analysts say.

Vietnam, another claimant to part of the potentially resource-rich East Sea (internationally known as the South China Sea), should wait for the outcome of the Philippines' move before deciding if it would follow suit, they say.

&#8220;If I were Vietnam I would wait to see how this plays out &#8211; China's reaction may be fierce, or the tribunal may not accept the case, or the effort may be futile,&#8221; said Mark Valencia, a Hawaii-based expert on the East Sea dispute.

Manila will ask a tribunal of the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), to which both China and the Philippines are signatories, to order a halt to China's activities that the Philippines says violates its sovereignty, Reuters reported Wednesday (January 23).

During the last two years, Vietnam and the Philippines have accused China of wanton aggression in staking out its claims in the area, which is thought to hold vast untapped reserves of oil and natural gas. The area also straddles key shipping lanes through which more than half the globe&#8217;s oil tanker traffic passes.

China and four members of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) &#8211; Vietnam, the Philippines, Malaysia and Brunei &#8211; are parties to sovereignty disputes over the East Sea.

China brazenly claims the largest area, covering most of the sea&#8217;s 1.7 million square kilometers.

Though this has been emphatically rejected by the other claimants and independent experts, analysts warn that Beijing is unlikely to back down from its expansive claims in the region, stretching from the eastern Himalayas to the East Sea.

Manila says the Chinese stance led to a standoff last year over rich fishing grounds around the Scarborough Shoal, a formation much closer to the Philippine coast than to China&#8217;s shores, AFP reported Tuesday.

The Philippines demands in its submission that China &#8220;desist from unlawful activities that violate the sovereign rights and jurisdiction of the Philippines under the 1982 UNCLOS.&#8221;

China hit back Wednesday, with Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong Lei saying the Philippines move would only worsen the status quo. He also accused Manila of &#8220;occupying some of China's islands in the South China Sea,&#8221; according to Reuters.

*Under international law, China is entitled to opt out of compulsory arbitration on sovereignty or boundary delimitations. It could simply say that it is not going to participate in arbitration; if it agreed to arbitration, then the decision of the tribunal would be binding.

&#8220;If the UNCLOS Arbitral Tribunal took up the case &#8211; which it can do with or without China's participation &#8211; and ruled favorably for the Philippines, this would undermine the legal basis of China's claim to &#8216;indisputable sovereignty&#8217; over the entire South China Sea,&#8221;* Carl Thayer, a maritime expert at the University of New South Wales in Australia, said.

&#8220;A legal decision of this nature would carry enormous normative and moral weight with the international community. It would provide legal grounds for any action the Philippines felt necessary to defend its sovereignty.

&#8220;China has thirty days to respond and name its representative to the tribunal. If it does not respond, the chairman of the International Tribunal on the Law of the Sea (ITLOS) has the authority to appoint four of the five members of the tribunal.&#8221;

While the UN tribunal would have no mandate to enforce its decisions, analysts said it could be at least a propaganda victory for the Philippines, especially if China plays this badly, leaving Beijing in between a rock and a hard place.

&#8220;If [China] decides to opt out of arbitration, it loses the PR war, but if it decides to respond, then it would get into a very messy process in which no one might be a winner,&#8221; Sam Bateman, a maritime expert at the S. Rajaratnam School of International Studies in Singapore, said.

The move by the Philippines would be &#8220;a bold political gesture anticipating a negative response from China that would lead to a further round of criticisms of China's lack of cooperation and assertiveness,&#8221; he said.

*Tough tone*

The Philippines is a staunch ally of the US and so is Japan, which has also been caught up in a territorial dispute with China in the East China Sea.

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, meeting last week with Foreign Minister Fumio Kishida of Japan's new right-leaning government, issued a veiled warning over the islands known as the Senkakus in Japanese and the Diaoyu in Chinese, AFP reported.

The US opposes "any unilateral actions that would seek to undermine Japanese administration" of the largely uninhabited islands, Clinton was quoted by the newswire as saying in response to growing accounts of Chinese ships and planes in the area.

China said it was "strongly dissatisfied with and resolutely opposes" Clinton's remarks and the state-run Xinhua news agency said that Obama "failed to significantly enhance strategic trust" between the countries in his first term, AFP said.

Since President Barrack Obama announced a &#8220;pivot&#8221; toward the economically resilient Asia-Pacific region in late 2011, the US has maintained it will play a neutral role in both the East China Sea and South China Sea disputes.

But critics say the US &#8220;rebalance&#8221; toward Asia in foreign and defense policy has seen Obama starting his second term with his administration adopting a tough tone on China over the East China Sea dispute. The &#8220;pivot&#8221; has already aggravated the South China Sea dispute and increased tensions between the two superpowers, analysts say.

The analysts expected no major shift in foreign policies during Obama&#8217;s second term &#8211; that appears to be as much military strategy as political. China will remain a major US concern &#8211; and likewise for China, they said.

&#8220;In 2013, the two new teams, in Washington and Beijing, will

test each other's nerves and muscles,&#8221; said Alexander Vuving, a security analyst at the Asia-Pacific Center for Security Studies in Hawaii.

&#8220;One thing is for sure, in my view, that the US will go ahead

with its &#8216;rebalance&#8217; to Asia. Also, I think [Chinese party chief] Xi Jinping will not be a dove, either,&#8221; Vuving said.

&#8220;So tensions in the South China Sea will continue to increase. But much will depend on how things go in terms of economics in both China and the US.&#8221;

Vietnam latest news - Thanh Nien Daily | East Sea tensions heat up as Philippines approaches UN tribunal

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Fsjal

Will there be peace in the region?


----------



## NiceGuy

Fsjal said:


> Will there be peace in the region?


If U want Peace, then prepare for War


----------



## Soryu

Fsjal said:


> Will there be peace in the region?



Not with your fool! (and nothing with your troll) 

Maps at Sparty Islands:

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Malaya

*Aquino stands by UN arbitration of dispute with China*






DAVOS, Switzerland&#8212;President Benigno Aquino stood firm on the Philippines&#8217; decision to seek United Nations arbitration of its territorial dispute with China, saying this action was backed by a consensus among the three branches of government.
In a chat with Philippine journalists on the sidelines of the World Economic Forum annual meeting, Aquino shrugged off concerns that taking the arbitration route would complicate gas exploration activities in the West Philippine Sea, as the Manila government calls part of the South China Sea that it claims to be part of Philippine territory. Aquino was specifically asked about the concern aired by businessman Manuel V. Pangilinan, chair of Philex Petroleum Corp. which is in talks with the state-owned China National Offshore Oil Corp. (CNOOC) on Recto Bank gas exploration subject to a framework acceptable to both the Philippine and Chinese governments.

In the first place, Aquino said, the partnership offer of CNOOC to Pangilinan&#8217;s group was still at a very early stage.
Secondly, the President said, the Philippines had justifiable reasons to take the arbitration route given recurring incidents of intrusion by Chinese vessels into Philippine seas. The President cited two separate maritime incidents in Bajo de Masinloc. &#8216;
Based on affidavits shown to him, the President said, two Chinese vessels were just about 10 yards away from the demarcation line. &#8220;And when you&#8217;re talking about ships, they don&#8217;t have brakes, right? Ten yards is just too close. While they were approaching, their horns were at full blast,&#8221; Mr. Aquino said.

On incident No. 2, the allegation of the affiant was that while sheltering inside Bajo de Masinloc, they were &#8220;observed,&#8221; and eventually approached and ordered out of the shoal when they were taking shelter from rough waters, the President said.
Citing the affidavit, the President said the Filipino vessels were told to go back to the rough waters even as Bajo de Masinloc, under UNCLOS (United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea), was part of of the country&#8217;s exclusive economic zone .
&#8220;So I think the record is very clear. From the incident in Bajo de Masinloc, we have tried to de-escalate the situation. We have tried to adhere to all of their request&#8230;. And instead of a de-escalation, there seems to be an escalation on their end,&#8221; the President said.

&#8220;With all due respect to Mr. Pangilinan, what am I supposed to do? I consulted the leadership of both chambers of Houses, both chambers, to include the minority leadership of both and (they were) okay,&#8221; he said.
Before taking this route, Mr. Aquino said the Executive branch invited the judiciary, which unfortunately was in an en banc session on the day a meeting was called on the issue. The President said even past presidents like Fidel V. Ramos and Joseph Estrada were invited to share their experiences. &#8220;So we brought the matter before them and there was unanimity. I won&#8217;t exaggerate, but really, nobody objected to going into this arbitration mode. I think, the choice is very, very clear,&#8221; Aquino said.
One option for the Philippines is to let the status quo remain whereas China was claiming effective control over Bajo de Masinloc and ordering Philippine vessels out.

&#8220;And if we don&#8217;t do this approach then, what is the next step? Is it Reed Bank next or Recto Bank? What else? We&#8217;ve been, I think, very patient. We believe we&#8217;ve been complying with the request in the interest of maintaining good relations but unfortunately, there has been no reciprocation. Hence, I am, by workings of the Constitution, and by the oath that I undertook, I swore to defend this country, and we are doing this under international law, in a peaceful manner&#8221; he said.
Aquino said the Philippines was not trying to threaten anybody. &#8220;But if we don&#8217;t stand up for our rights, who we do expect will be standing up for our rights?&#8221; he said.

But Pangilinan, in a statement, aired what he said was a very practical and moral question: &#8220;Are you prepared to set aside, but not surrender, your claim on sovereignty over the area, so you could go on and develop the area jointly or should you stick to the moral position that this is ours and no matter what happens this is ours? In which case, quite likely, it will never be developed, at least not in our lifetime.&#8221;

Aquino stands by UN arbitration of dispute with China | Inquirer Global Nation


----------



## Malaya

Let all the peace-loving Filipinos and Asians pray for a truly peaceful and fair resolution of the case in the U.N. In the meantime, China must refrain from aggravating the issue by restraining all its military adventurism.


----------



## Fsjal

NiceGuy said:


> If U want Peace, then prepare for War



Are you a warmonger?

Would you let your soldiers die just because of an island?



Malaya said:


> Let all the peace-loving Filipinos and Asians pray for a truly peaceful and fair resolution of the case in the U.N. In the meantime, China must refrain from aggravating the issue by restraining all its military adventurism.



If China was to stop, should'nt we do the same, including Vietnam and Malaysia.


----------



## NiceGuy

Fsjal said:


> Are you a warmonger?
> 
> Would you let your soldiers die just because of an island?


U dont know abt that motto ?its the only way to bring peace back to the region


> Si vis pacem, para bellum is a Latin adage translated as, "If you wish for peace, prepare for war" (usually interpreted as meaning peace through strength&#8212;a strong society being less likely to be attacked by enemies). The adage was adapted from a statement found in Book 3 of Latin author Publius Flavius Vegetius Renatus's tract De Re Militari (4th- or 5th-century),[1] although the idea it conveys is also present in earlier works, such as Plato's Nomoi (Laws)
> Si vis pacem, para bellum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia





> . If China was to stop, should'nt we do the same, including Vietnam and Malaysia


but first of all,can u speak Filipinos?


----------



## Malaya

Fsjal said:


> If China was to stop, should'nt we do the same, including Vietnam and Malaysia.


You think they will? 



NiceGuy said:


> U dont know abt that motto ?its the only way to bring peace back to the region
> but first of all,can u speak Filipinos?


He's not a Filipino

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Malaya

*Legal route to resolve South China Sea dispute a political minefield*

*Simon Tay says the Philippines' decision to take its South China Sea island dispute with China to UN arbitration will set in motion a legal process that, unless carefully managed, could lead to political fallout*






The legal process begun by the Philippines to challenge claims by China to the South China Sea surprised the region. International arbitration is allowed under the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea, but the move adds urgency and new elements to a trying political scene.

Relations between the two nations over competing claims have been tense in the past year, with vessels standing off for months near Scarborough Shoal. The issue also affected Asean unity last year, when then chairman Cambodia could find no compromise wording for an official statement.

What does this new move portend? At first glance, it is a legitimate step, supported by the various calls for parties to use international law, rather than force. China has accepted the UN convention and now faces a difficult choice.

Arbitration for this sea treaty is compulsory and a timeline will unfold in the coming weeks in which the International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea will require arbitrators to be nominated and a schedule set out for the case. If Beijing refuses to participate, these proceedings can still go ahead without it.

If China does take part, it can challenge the questions that can be addressed. The scope of jurisdiction in this particular provision is limited and cannot include issues like sovereignty over the rocks.

Even if China participates and loses, it can refuse to comply and there will be no penalties or police to enforce the ruling. Global public opinion could, however, be affected. Manila's legal move must therefore be seen in a broader political context.

Some Chinese will suspect a conspiracy or concert against them. The United States' rebalancing to the region has co- incided with the resurgence of the long-standing disputes in the South China Sea. Philippine President Benigno Aquino has invited American forces to consider arrangements to visit his country for extended periods. This is in sharp contrast to the past Corazon Aquino administration that ordered the closure of US bases.

Japan's role will also be questioned. Representing the new Shinzo Abe administration, Foreign Minister Fumio Kishida chose Manila as his first overseas visit. There, he promised to provide coast guard vessels and found a welcome for the idea that Japan should re-arm.

This comes amid increased tension between Tokyo and Beijing over the Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands. Some will therefore question the coincidence that the legal challenge has come so soon after the visit. Another coincidence is that the tribunal for the law of the sea has a Japanese national as its president - Shunji Yanai - although he is not under instruction from Tokyo.

It is therefore for the better that steps be taken to stabilise relations. The new Chinese Communist Party chief, Xi Jinping , has called for co-operation to handle "sensitive" issues effectively and in a timely manner. This came when China received Natsuo Yamaguchi, leader of the New Komeito party, the junior coalition member in the current government.

The future tenor of US-China ties is harder to read as key appointments to the state and defence departments are still pending and new Chinese leaders are settling in. President Barack Obama did, however, set clear priorities in his inaugural address that focus on domestic issues. Moreover, having trumpeted the coming end to a decade of war, Obama should be cautious about engaging in potential Asian conflicts, even if allies wish otherwise.

In this context, it is critical that the Association of Southeast Asian Nations maintains its neutrality. Although the Philippines is a member of the group, others in Asean - whether collectively or individually - were not consulted on the legal challenge. The Singapore government, for example, has said it first heard about it through the media. Manila's right to take this route was also acknowledged as its own national decision.

However, Asean neutrality cannot mean inactivity. On the contrary, the current Asean chair - Brunei - must work with others in the group to rebuild trust, with the aim of beginning negotiations on a code of conduct for activities in the contested areas.

Last year's July 12 statement on Asean's six-point principles on the South China Sea bears reiteration. It will be critical that China is a part of this negotiation - as much as the Philippines and other claimants - and not feel that the 10 smaller countries are ganging up.

The legal process will move ahead - quickly and quite inexorably. It must also be expected that China will use economic and other levers to express its displeasure with Manila. The Philippines is testing China's intentions in law but its own endurance will be tested in economic and political spheres.

Challenging China under the UN convention is a decision by the Aquino administration that international law allows and no other country can stop. But what others in the region can and must do is help prevent the legal process from creating a political mess.

http://www.scmp.com/comment/insight...ute-resolve-south-china-sea-dispute-political

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Malaya




----------



## Malaya

*Spain to turn over some 70 historical maps to strengthen PH claim over disputed territories*

InterAksyon.com
The online news portal of TV5

*MANILA, Philippines - Two days before China comes out with its official maps that highlight territories in South China Sea, which are also being claimed by the Philippines, Spanish Ambassador to Manila Jorge Domecq said his country is willing to turn over to the Philippines some 70 of the latter's historical maps. *

Domecq made the announcement on Tuesday at the sidelines of the sixth Tribuna España-Filipinas, a high-dialogue between the two countries held at the AIM Conference Center in Makati City.

During the event, Domecq was asked what could Spain contribute to further strengthen the Philippines' claim over the disputed territories in the West Philippine Sea (South China Sea) given that Madrid and Manila shared hundreds of years of historical heritage. 

*"I think that is something that you probably have to dig into the archives (for)&#8230; I can send it to you, where you have around 70 maps, which are a private collection, and then you can draw your conclusion," Domecq replied. *

Sen. Edgardo Angara also owns a vast collection of Philippine maps dating back to Spanish colonial times, which include an old map showing that Scarborough (Panatag or Bajo de Masinloc) Shoal belongs to the Philippines. China refers to the rock fomation as Huangyan Island. 

According to Angara, it is clear that the shoal was part of the Philippines' cartography during the Spanish colonial area. The senator said there is map made in 1734 that shows that Panatag was already part of the Phillippine Islands, which was then under Spanish colonial rule. 

China has been firm on its stand that it owns the entire South China Sea, citing its historical inheritance and the nine-dash-line on its ancient map.

But a senior official from the Philippine Department of Foreign Affairs (DFA), who requested anonimity for lack of authority to speak on the matter, said that with or without the old maps from Spain, the Philippines would win its case against China.

Earlier this month, the Philippines filed a case against China over its excessive territorial claims before the Arbitral Tribunal of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (Unclos). 

"China&#8217;s claim is not based on the Unclos, it is based allegedly on some other laws. Ours is an entitlement, therefore legally, we have territorial sovereignty [over the West Philippine Sea]. So between the two of us, I don't have the burden of truth, you [China] have the burden of truth,&#8221; the senior DFA official told InterAksyon.com in an interview on Tuesday. 

According to the DFA official, the Philippines is entitled to the 200-nautical-mile exclusive economic zone provided by the Unclos.

&#8220;We are the one who has entitlement, theirs are [just] claims. We don't have to prove ourselves...the law already proved it. They are the ones with a claim that's not based on a written law, but on their own concept of laws, so why put a burden on me [Philippines]?,&#8221; the official said.

China is set to come out with its new official maps showing the 130 islands and islets of the South China Sea or the nine-dash-line claims, including the islands and waters that the Philippines, Vietnam, Brunei and Malaysia also claim. 

The new maps, which for the first time put the disputed islands in South China Sea in equal scale to that of the Chinese mainland, are published by China's national map publisher SinoMaps Press and will be available to the public by end of January this year. The maps also feature islands in East China Sea being claimed by Japan. 

DFA spokesman Raul Hernandez on Tuesday said the department was still waiting for the Philippine Embassy in Beijing to verify the existence of the new map highlighting the disputed territories. 

&#8220;As we have said, we are still asking our embassy in Beijing for verification regarding the map and the extent of the coverage of the map,&#8221; Hernandez told reporters.

He said the DFA would "act accordingly" as soon as it sees the new China maps and the extent of their coverage. 

If the maps cover parts of the Philippine territory the DFA will again "file a protest" against China&#8217;s action, according to Hernandez.

http://www.interaksyon.com/article/...strengthen-ph-claim-over-disputed-territories

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Malaya

*US lawmakers back PHL decision to take China disputes to UN arbitration*

A visiting US congressional delegation expressed support on Tuesday to the Philippine government&#8217;s decision to take long standing territorial disputes with China before a United Nations arbitration body.

Foreign Affairs Assistant Secretary Carlos Sorreta said the five-man US delegation led by Congressman Edward Royce (Republican, California), chairman of the House committee on Foreign Affairs, &#8220;expressed their full support&#8221; to Manila&#8217;s efforts &#8220;to resolve the situation in a peaceful manner and in accordance to the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea.&#8221;

&#8220;There were some discussion on the details of our actions and they were very interested in the merits of our arguments. They&#8217;re very supportive of it,&#8221; Sorreta told reporters after the group met Philippine officials led by Secretary Albert del Rosario at the Department of Foreign Affairs.

The US lawmakers&#8217; backing is among the first foreign expression of support to the Philippine government&#8217;s filing last week of an arbitration case before the UN to try to declare China&#8217;s expansive claim to the South China Sea, part of which is known as West Philippine Sea.

China has yet to officially declare if it would get involved in the landmark case, Sorreta said.

From Manila, the US delegation will proceed to Beijing and would likely discuss the territorial disputes with Chinese officials, Sorreta said.

Other members of the US delegation are Representatives Tom Marino (Republican, Pennsylvania), Eliot Engel (Democratic, New York), Vern Buchanan (Republican, Florida), and Matt Salmon (Republican, Arizona). 

&#8220;They are very, very interested in the issue. They asked us, they asked the Secretary for details and the Secretary briefed them. They are very interested in the peaceful resolution of this issue,&#8221; Sorreta said.

Philippine Ambassador to Washington Jose Cuisia, who was present at the meeting, said Del Rosario explained to the US lawmakers that Manila needed to go on a legal track because the country&#8217;s efforts at diplomacy and moves to settle it through the Association of South East Asian Nations (ASEAN), &#8220;have not yielded any results.&#8221;

Manila has maintained that a rules-based approach is the only legitimate way in addressing disputes through a legal framework such as the UNCLOS.

UNCLOS is a 1982 accord by 163 countries that aims to govern the use of offshore areas and sets territorial limits of coastal states. The Philippines and China are both signatories to the treaty.

Alarmed by China&#8217;s expansionist moves, which the Philippines called &#8220;unlawful&#8221; and &#8220;invalid,&#8221; the government of President Benigno S. Aquino III took a bold step last week when it elevated its long-standing maritime rift with Beijing before the UN. 

China is citing historical entitlements as basis for its huge claims over the South China Sea.

The South China Sea is dotted with islands, shoals, cays, reefs and rock formations and is believed to be rich in oil and natural gas. It is claimed in part or in whole by China, Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan.

The resource-rich waters is an international waterway where more than 50 percent of the world's merchant fleet tonnage pass each year.

Many have feared the conflicts could be Asia's next flashpoint. &#8212;KG, GMA News

US lawmakers back PHL decision to take China disputes to UN arbitration | News | GMA News Online | The Go-To Site for Filipinos Everywhere

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

^^^ sound like we care


----------



## Viet

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> ^^^ sound like we care


Regardless of you like ot not, the Philippines´s decision to take the dispute to international court is a serious attack on China´s claims in the SCS.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## hurt

Viet said:


> Regardless of you like ot not, the Philippines´s decision to take the dispute to international court is a serious attack on China´s claims in the SCS.



it's useless struggle


----------



## Viet

hurt said:


> it's useless struggle


You fool. We know of your arrogance, hence we are stepping up our monitoring in the South China Sea. Every single ship in the region is tracked.
















_A radar operator of the Vietnamese army is on duty on Song Tu Tay island of the Truong Sa archipelago -Photo: Tuoi Tre_

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## hurt

Viet said:


> You fool. We know of your arrogance, hence we are stepping up our monitoring in the South China Sea. Every single ship in the region is tracked.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _A radar operator of the Vietnamese army is on duty on Song Tu Tay island of the Truong Sa archipelago -Photo: Tuoi Tre_



Then&#65311;What you do with those ships


----------



## Viet

hurt said:


> Then&#65311;What you do with those ships


You are so funny. Why do we monitor all naval activities in the region? Use your brain!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Soryu

Viet said:


> You are so funny. Why do we monitor all naval activities in the region? Use your brain!


Are you forgot, Viet!? Their brains just full with mess of arrogant in here!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

*Vietnam's Naval infantry*
I Think this pic was take at Sparty Islands or Cam Ranh naval base because we see sea at background.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## hurt

Viet said:


> You are so funny. Why do we monitor all naval activities in the region? Use your brain!



Plz keep detailed records ,chinese thank you



Soryu said:


> *Vietnam's Naval infantry*
> I Think this pic was take at Sparty Islands or Cam Ranh naval base because we see sea at background.



Wheel armored vehicle and Infantry VS warship!
Nice game!


----------



## Zero_wing

hurt said:


> it's useless struggle



What it hasn't even started yet? what's wrong have hard time thinking? No one left to screw ideas from cheap copy cats? 

Anyway the Philippines is on the right here we have the documents and a lot countries are helping us so again chinese warmongers imperialist what are you talking about useless struggle maybe you people should just accept the true that illogical claims are nothing but a child's tantrum being done by 5,000 year old bonjing (Man who acts like a baby) who needs to accepts facts and should act like a civilized member of the International Community well its up to you folks if you like to continue on this but we do what we can ang tama ay tama ng mali ay mali yun ang totoo (what is right is right what is wrong is wrong that's the truth)

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## hurt

Zero_wing said:


> What it hasn't even started yet? what's wrong have hard time thinking? No one left to screw ideas from cheap copy cats?
> 
> Anyway the Philippines is on the right here we have the documents and a lot countries are helping us so again chinese warmongers imperialist what are you talking about useless struggle maybe you people should just accept the true that illogical claims are nothing but a child's tantrum being done by 5,000 year old bonjing (Man who acts like a baby) who needs to accepts facts and should act like a civilized member of the International Community well its up to you folks if you like to continue on this but we do what we can ang tama ay tama ng mali ay mali yun ang totoo (what is right is right what is wrong is wrong that's the truth)



You have no right in SCS.
Don't Rely On Your Wishful Thinking.


----------



## Zero_wing

hurt said:


> You have no right in SCS.
> Don't Rely On Your Wishful Thinking.



Oh please were not even taking the whole West Philippine Sea only part of it which granted to countries like us by International law and our own constitution and please don't use words you don't understand. One china is land mass while the Philippines is an archipelago country meaning a nation of Islands under archipelagic doctrine of International law archipelago which again a country made out of islands have continuous line of territory between islands meaning in between islands its one straight line its Philippine territory otherwise the economic and national security of island countries would be endanger because foreign ships can just go in between them without reservation and they can take the area resource even if its close to the nation in question plus we are only claiming an area which rightfully ours to being with unlike your Imperialist Government who claims over all of the West Philippines Sea we are only claiming the kalayaan Isalands near to Palawan and our 200 EZZ and Panatag Shoal (Scarborough Shoal) and all of the resources of the area which is accordingly by our constitutions up to present (the constitution of 1989) and doctrines under international law and treaties and we have control over the Area since pre espanic times china has not conquered us even though you tried countless times (Chinese Pirate attacks as early as 16th century) plus we are protecting the endemic species that you are kill through extinction because of your Imperialism and your greedy and some old traditional meals which has no relevance in modern medicine so if you have no evidence to rip off our to make up just give it up your insults are nothing your just angry you have no more avenue to run your stupid claims again you people are like children trying to reason your way out of trouble yourselves cause. You people love economic pressuring and threatening countries with military force (your so called bilateral solution) Is and insult to civilized law general.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## hurt

Zero_wing said:


> Oh please were not even taking the whole West Philippine Sea only part of it which granted to countries like us by International law and our own constitution and please don't use words you don't understand. One china is land mass while the Philippines is an archipelago country meaning a nation of Islands under archipelagic doctrine of International law archipelago which again a country made out of islands have continuous line of territory between islands meaning in between islands its one straight line its Philippine territory otherwise the economic and national security of island countries would be endanger because foreign ships can just go in between them without reservation and they can take the area resource even if its close to the nation in question plus we are only claiming an area which rightfully ours to being with unlike your Imperialist Government who claims over all of the West Philippines Sea we are only claiming the kalayaan Isalands near to Palawan and our 200 EZZ and Panatag Shoal (Scarborough Shoal) and all of the resources of the area which is accordingly by our constitutions up to present (the constitution of 1989) and doctrines under international law and treaties and we have control over the Area since pre espanic times china has not conquered us even though you tried countless times (Chinese Pirate attacks as early as 16th century) plus we are protecting the endemic species that you are kill through extinction because of your Imperialism and your greedy and some old traditional meals which has no relevance in modern medicine so if you have no evidence to rip off our to make up just give it up your insults are nothing your just angry you have no more avenue to run your stupid claims again you people are like children trying to reason your way out of trouble yourselves cause. You people love economic pressuring and threatening countries with military force (your so called bilateral solution) Is and insult to civilized law general.



Everything is nonsense.
The only determining factor is National Strength.


----------



## Zero_wing

hurt said:


> Everything is nonsense.
> The only determining factor is National Strength.



See as i said no logical argument just bullying tactics man i know you people have no more ideas see you in court jerks!


----------



## hurt

Zero_wing said:


> See as i said no logical argument just bullying tactics man i know you people have no more ideas see you in court jerks!



court ?
Court never constraint USA.
now same to us.


----------



## hurt

Zero_wing said:


> See as i said no logical argument just bullying tactics man i know you people have no more ideas see you in court jerks!



I deeply sympathize with you.
I know what your feelings,because we endure oppression about 100 years.
Now is your turn,JUST ENJOY ITThis is what you deserve.-----Island Thief


----------



## Viet

@Zero_wing

Discussing with Chinese trolls over such topics is useless, what counts is actions on the ground. Philippines should copy what the Chinese are doing in the East China Sea dispute: sending patrol boats and planes into the disputed zone!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zero_wing

hurt said:


> court ?
> Court never constraint USA.
> now same to us.



Like we care what you think as nations in the world we have an obligation to follow observe international law that is the worse reply ever.


----------



## Zero_wing

hurt said:


> I deeply sympathize with you.
> I know what your feelings,because we endure oppression about 100 years.
> Now is your turn,JUST ENJOY ITThis is what you deserve.-----Island Thief



Hahaha we are thieves? how can one steal something that we already owned its becoming a problem because of your Imperials ambition and your bullying and arrogance now prepare your so called evidence and prepare to lose badly.


----------



## hurt

Zero_wing said:


> Hahaha we are thieves? how can one steal something that we already owned its becoming a problem because of your Imperials ambition and your bullying and arrogance now prepare your so called evidence and prepare to lose badly.



You enter my living room to mark your name on my table when I sleep. 
Now you say that you already owned the table.


----------



## Zero_wing

hurt said:


> You enter my living room to mark your name on my table when I sleep.
> Now you say that you already owned the table.



Hey that's my line? the theft is saying the victims line? wow weird world you people live in. This just proves you have no more reasons to tell me just trolling reply's man you people are pitiful pathetic bunch of trollers.


----------



## hurt

Zero_wing said:


> Hey that's my line? the theft is saying the victims line? wow weird world you people live in. This just proves you have no more reasons to tell me just trolling reply's man you people are pitiful pathetic bunch of trollers.



In 1935, the Philippines was granted Commonwealth status. Plans for independence over the next decade were interrupted by World War II when the Japanese Empire invaded and established a puppet government. Many atrocities and war crimes were committed during the war such as the Bataan Death March and the Manila massacre that culminated during the Battle of Manila. Allied troops defeated the Japanese in 1945. By the end of the war it is estimated over a million Filipinos had died.
On July 4, 1946, the Philippines attained its independence.[6] Immediately after World War II, the Philippines faced a number of challenges. The country had to be rebuilt from the ravages of war. It also had to come to terms with Japanese collaborators. Meanwhile, disgruntled remnants of the Hukbalahap communist rebel army that had previously fought against and resisted the Japanese continued to roam the rural regions. This threat to the government was dealt with by Secretary of National Defense and later President Ramon Magsaysay, but sporadic cases of communist insurgency continued to flare up long afterward. In 1965, Ferdinand Marcos was elected president. Nearing the end of his second term and constitutionally barred from seeking a third, he declared martial law on September 21, 1972. By using political divisions, the tension of the Cold War, and the specter of communist rebellion and Islamic insurgency as justifications, he governed by decree.







Its less than 100 years that Philippines as a Independent States.

you stolen my Thitu Island In 1971/4/18.

Chinese fishermans historically called the island Tie Zhi (&#38081;&#23769, sometime misrefered as "Tiezhi Island" (&#38081;&#23769;&#23707; Tiezhi Dao); however, Tiezhi Reef (&#38081;&#23769;&#30977 refers to another rock in South China Sea, 7.5 km northeast of this island.[citation needed] The modern Chinese name of the island was taken from the one of the battleships "Chung-yeh" (Chinese: &#20013;&#26989;&#34399;; pinyin: Zhongye Hao) sent by the Chinese government during the Republic of China era to regain control of the island in 1946.[1] A tiny joss house built by Chinese during the Qing Dynasty still stands in the middle of the island.[citation needed]
From 1930 to 1933, French colonial Government in French Indochina sent naval troops to Spratlys, including Thitu Island. On December 21, 1933, Gouverneur M. J. Krautheimer in Cochinchina (now Vietnam) decided to annex the Spratlys to Ba Ria Province.[2]
During 1970-1971, Philippines sent troops to occupy Thitu Island and some others in Spratlys.[3]

Thitu Island - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Island Thief&#65281;


----------



## hurt

Zero_wing said:


> Hey that's my line? the theft is saying the victims line? wow weird world you people live in. This just proves you have no more reasons to tell me just trolling reply's man you people are pitiful pathetic bunch of trollers.



Let us read this joke.



> In 1947, Tomas Cloma, a Filipino adventurer and a fishing magnate, "discovered" a group of several uninhabited and unoccupied islands/islets in the vastness of the Luzon Sea.
> On May 11, 1956, together with 40 men, Tomas Cloma took formal possession of the islands, lying some 380 miles west of the southern end of Palawan and named it &#8220;Free Territory of Freedomland." Four days later on May 15, 1956, Cloma issued and posted copies of his &#8220;Notice to the Whole World&#8221; on each of the islands as a decisive manifestation of unwavering claim over the territory.
> Then on May 31, 1956, Tomas Cloma declared the establishment of the Free Territory of Freedomland, ten days after he sent his second representation to the Secretary of Foreign Affairs, informing the latter that the territory claimed was named "Freedomland".



It looks like that a ant find a New World in my garden.

*"discovered"*

A map made by Chinese Government in 1947.





A map made by Chinese Publishing house in 1937


----------



## Soryu

Both of these maps show nothing like China hold sovereignty of Islands, it's simply show a map draw by ROC until 1947 when they had intentions claim all SCS at the time ROC became winner and ally of US after the end of WW2

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zero_wing

Yup you people have no sovereign control over them you people are just taking islands by force and building military facilities in territories of other countries namely us and ASEAN so that's called stealing and threatening or also known as aggression.


----------



## 帅的一匹

Viet said:


> @Zero_wing
> 
> Discussing with Chinese trolls over such topics is useless, what counts is actions on the ground. Philippines should copy what the Chinese are doing in the East China Sea dispute: sending patrol boats and planes into the disputed zone!


You pay for them? Shameless asking Filipinos challenge china and Vietcong behind the stage. We know what you got in your guts.


----------



## 帅的一匹

We took the Huang Yan island, and you are not allowed to get there. What you gonna do instead of suicide? You dont have choice but accepting it. We will ignore your appeal on the so called international court , cause only
Power speaks. Don't wate time and get a life anywhere else. Huang Yan Island is belonging to China forever.


----------



## 帅的一匹

Your president said you will be back at Huang Yan Island when weather conditions turns better, why not now? Cause it is not yours at the very beginning?

Reed table mount is also belonging to PRC, we will take it back any time from now.


----------



## Zero_wing

Sure sure whatever child.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Fsjal

wanglaokan said:


> Your president said you will be back at Huang Yan Island when weather conditions turns better, why not now? Cause it is not yours at the very beginning?
> 
> Reed table mount is also belonging to PRC, we will take it back any time from now.



What so important about Reed Table Mount? 
If Philippines discovered some Rare Earth Material there China would be the first to send their warships to the area.


----------



## Zero_wing

Fsjal said:


> What so important about Reed Table Mount?
> If Philippines discovered some Rare Earth Material there China would be the first to send their warships to the area.



Sir please read one we are following UNCLOS two we are island country we are claim only what is under our control and nothing more were are not claim a whole sea (china's nine dash claim) which all experts agree is well down stupid? No nation has done what china is claiming so please stop using Australia flag or my country flag you chinese troll use your own or are you ashamed of your own flag? Beside using peoples flags is one of the very lowest of Insults i believe you are better than that if your not (if am wrong) then you are really uncivilized troll.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## 帅的一匹

How do you know he is a falseflagger? Or you are just falsify the story? We will control the table mount Island in order to protect our soverign integrity.


----------



## Zero_wing

wanglaokan said:


> How do you know he is a falseflagger? Or you are just falsify the story? We will control the table mount Island in order to protect our soverign integrity.



Yup because hes chinese using an Aussie (sorry for the real Australians) and Philippine flag the lowest action one can take really bad play but only civilized people know, Man why am telling you this your potty mouth of course your uncivilized.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Fsjal

Zero_wing said:


> Yup because hes chinese using an Aussie (sorry for the real Australians) and Philippine flag the lowest action one can take really bad play but only civilized people know, Man why am telling you this your potty mouth of course your uncivilized.



If I am a false flagger then you are one. Actually everyone here in PDF is one.



wanglaokan said:


> How do you know he is a falseflagger? Or you are just falsify the story? We will control the table mount Island in order to protect our soverign integrity.



He is just insecure maybe? I don't know but he could be.


----------



## cirr

CMS 8002&#65288;1st of the thirty-six 1000-tonne and 1500-tonne CMS vessels under construction&#65289; formally inducted&#65306;

http://you.video.sina.com.cn/api/si...t6nknynt71+iJw5ZVQ+OZIrfO4kK6S/TAclA8Gg/s.swf









CMS 9020 has completed its sea trials and is going through the final patches before induction&#65306;








HPS is churning out CMS vessels like a sausage maker&#65306;


----------



## Zero_wing

Fsjal said:


> If I am a false flagger then you are one. Actually everyone here in PDF is one.
> 
> 
> 
> He is just insecure maybe? I don't know but he could be.



Hahahaha what kind of reply is that


----------



## p3avi8tor69

Fsjal said:


> If I am a false flagger then you are one. Actually everyone here in PDF is one.
> 
> 
> 
> He is just insecure maybe? I don't know but he could be.



He is full of nonsense, trash talk, juvenile insults and poor attempts to look intellectual. He is just frustrated at the hopelessness.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## GR!FF!N

What is a lake in maritime strategy? Japanese prime minister Shinzo Abe published an op-ed in Project Syndicate last week maintaining that Chinese power is increasingly transfiguring the South China Sea into Lake Beijing. That sounds ominous. To counteract Chinas primacy in southern waters, argues Abe, Japan must augment its combat and police capabilities while forging a diamond with the United States, Australia, and India to defend the commons in East and South Asia. That sounds like a multinational lake presided over by the regions leading liberal republics. Presumably the European equivalent would be NATO trusteeship over the Mediterranean Sea.

The idea of a lake has a long provenance. Many moons ago, while researching Alfred Thayer Mahans influence in Imperial Germany, I stumbled across a 1907 issue of National Geographic that exuded triumphalism. The normally staid magazine ran a map showing American flags scattered all across the Pacific basin, from Hawaii to the Philippine Islands. The flags depicted the islands wrested from Spain in 1898. The caption proudly proclaimed that the Pacific Ocean wasand would remainan American Ocean. And so it was. Writing a century later, pundit Robert Kaplan maintained that the Pacific has been a veritable American naval lake since World War II.

By no means is the United States the first seagoing state to declare this or that body of water its own. In the 1950s Indian sea-power proponent K. B. Vaidya declared that the Indian Ocean must become an Indian Lake guarded by forward-deployed eastern, southern, and western fleets. A vibrant oceangoing navy would work some alchemy, transforming inward-looking India into the supreme and undisputed master of regional waters.

But again, what precisely do sea-power enthusiasts mean when they deem some expanse a lake belonging to some seafaring nation? A lake must have geographic, military, and political components. Geography provides the arena within which nations play out their destinies. Strength, as Clausewitz defines it, is a product of force and resolve.

Lets break the concept down. First, designating a compact or enclosed sea a national lake is one thing. Declaring de facto supremacy over the worlds largest ocean, as National Geographic did on Americas behalf, borders on hubris. Boundless ambition begets strategic overextension and all of the maladies it entails. Thats what Walter Lippmann meant when he accused interwar American administrations of monstrous imprudence for letting Asia-Pacific commitments outstrip naval means.

Second, claiming a lake means commanding the waters within in the Mahanian sense. Mahan famously portrayed maritime command as amassing overbearing power to drive enemy fleets from vital waters in wartime. Peacetime command means fielding a force able to overawe and overshadow rival fleetsopening up vistas for deterrence, coercion, and confident naval diplomacy of all varieties. Thats a high standard to meet. And the bigger the lake, the higher the standard.

And third, theres the question of political resolve or, more accurately, political intentions. For what purpose does a seafaring nation claim a lake for itself? Theres no obvious general rule implicit within the concept. Power is a neutral thing. A nautical suzerain can be benign and self-denying, as I believe the United States has been since 1945 and India will be once it consummates its naval project. Few stay up nights worrying about the U.S. or Indian naval juggernauts trampling their interests.

But power can be abused. That seems to be Prime Minister Abes message vis-à-vis China. Abe frets that Beijing will misuse its naval might within Lake Beijing, to the detriment of Japan and other seagoing nations. It cannot be trusted to use its power responsibly. Chinese leaders have done little to allay such concerns. Just the opposite.

The concept of a lake isnt a bad yardstick for measuring Chinese sea power. Is Beijing indeed intent on primacy in the South China Sea and other expanses, to the extent of seeing them as Chinese lakes? Does it possess sufficient naval and military power to make itself the master of the waters within? How large a margin of superiority can the PLA amass in the face of regional competitors? And to what uses would Beijing put its marine primacy once achieved?

Food for thought.

The South China Sea: &#8220;Lake Beijing&#8221;

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

*Vietnam drives away 3,000 Chinese fishing boats*

Tuoitrenews
Updated : Mon, January 14, 2013,12:28 PM (GMT+0700)





_officers and soldiers of the Marine Police Zone 1 train in observing and detecting targets at sea._










_high speed patrol boats of the Vietnam Marine Police Department - Photo: Dat Viet_

Over a one month period of conducting sea patrols, *Vietnamese marine police* units drove away 2,988 Chinese fishing boats that encroached upon Vietnam&#8217;s sovereign ocean territory.

These boats entered waters off of Vietnam&#8217;s north and central regions, the department said.

These patrols are aimed at boosting a crackdown on crime at sea before, during and after the coming Tet (Lunar New Year) holiday, which falls on February 10, the department said.

The marine police reported on the illegal operations of five Chinese boats before releasing them.

Last year the Vietnamese marine police detected 1, 268 violations of Vietnam&#8217;s sea territories by foreign boats, the department reported.

*The police also found more than 100 Chinese law-enforcement, research and exploration ships* operating in the East Sea, including the sea of Vietnam&#8217;s Truong Sa (Spratly) and Hoang Sa (Paracel) archipelagoes. A number of these ships violated Vietnam&#8217;s sea sovereignty with the aim of threatening, preventing, and sabotaging the country&#8217;s maritime economic activities.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Zero_wing

p3avi8tor69 said:


> He is full of nonsense, trash talk, juvenile insults and poor attempts to look intellectual. He is just frustrated at the hopelessness.



And this comes from a person with no contribution here talk like he does? oh please spare me your idiotic rants.


----------



## Fsjal

Zero_wing said:


> And this comes from a person with no contribution here talk like he does? oh please spare me your idiotic rants.



I don't think he is ranting.


----------



## Zero_wing

Fsjal said:


> I don't think he is ranting.



Sir do i care what you think?


----------



## Fsjal

China's Plan To Sink US Navy - Business Insider

China's plan to sink US fleet.


----------



## Rechoice

Fsjal said:


> China's Plan To Sink US Navy - Business Insider
> 
> China's plan to sink US fleet.



We can waiting for ever.


----------



## p3avi8tor69

Fsjal said:


> China's Plan To Sink US Navy - Business Insider
> 
> China's plan to sink US fleet.



What a dumb article.


----------



## Fsjal

p3avi8tor69 said:


> What a dumb article.



Agree
I read it and laugh at the missile intercepting plan part.


----------



## NiceGuy

New year in Spratly

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## EastSea

Khanh Hoa, Province Of Vietnam:
Displaying four maps to show the Hoang Sa (Paracel) and Truong Sa (Spratly) belong to Vietnamese territory.
[06/02/2013]

From the second to the fifth of February 2013, Khanh Hoa appropriate authorities deploy the installation of four ancient maps to show Paracel and Spratly Islands belong to Vietnamese territory at fifteen locations on Khanh Hoa Province. These maps originated from the Qing Dynasty (China), The Ming Dynasty (Vietnam) and France.







Accordingly, the four maps include: Hoàng tri&#7873;u tr&#7921;c t&#7881;nh &#273;&#7883;a d&#432; toàn &#273;&#7891; (a Chinese administrative map of provincial boundaries), published under the Qing Dynasty in 1904, which shows that the Southern point of China at that time ended at Hainan island only, not Tay Sa and Nam Sa Islands, means Paracel and the Spratly Islands belong to Vietnam; the second map is An Nam dai quoc hoa do (the Map of the Great Country of An Nam) drawn by Jean Louis Taberd of France in 1838, which depicts the Paracel seu Cat Vang archipelago belongs to the territory of Vietnam;* the third map is a map of Indochinese meteorological stations, the French established in 1940, showed that meteorological Stations in Pattle (Hoang Sa) and Itu Aba (Spratly) were the two most important meteorological stations in Indochina; *the last map is Dai Nam thong nhat toan do (the Complete Map of Unified Dai Nam), published under the Minh Mang reign in 1834. It showed that Hoang Sa and Van Ly Truong Sa belong to Vietnams territory;
As known, these maps are displayed at: Khanh Hoa conference centre (46 Tran Phu Street, Nha Trang city), Nha Trang Oceanology Institue, Cau Da Tourism port, Nha Trang Station, Nha Trang University, Cam Ranh international Airport and some administrative offices in Khanh Hoa province. The displaying of four maps is to popularize for local, domestic and international guests to understand more about territory and sovereignty of Vietnam when they come to Khanh Hoa province.

C

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## WuMaoCleverbot

*Philippines draws German backing on sea disputes with China*
By Fat Reyes in Manila/Philippine Daily Inquirer | Asia News Network &#8211; Fri, Feb 8, 2013

Manila (Philippine Daily Inquirer/ANN) - [B]A German foreign minister yesterday expressed his country's support for the Philippine position to solve its sea disputes with China under international law,[/B] saying that peaceful resolution was best for the two countries.

In a press briefing yesterday, German Federal Foreign Minister Guido said that the Philippines' territorial disputes with China over the West Philippine Sea (South China Sea) were discussed during a meeting with Philippine diplomats and officials and that his country remained supportive of peaceful resolution of the disputes.

"We appeal to all sides to resolve all the questions in accordance with international law and in a peaceful and cooperative way," Westerwelle said in a statement.
Westerwelle and a 12-man delegation from Germany were in Manila for a two-day visit, the first by Germany's top diplomat to the Philippines in 12 years.

For his part, Foreign Affairs Secretary Albert Del Rosario said that he conveyed to his foreign counterpart the Philippine initiative to bring the territorial disputes before an arbitral tribunal under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (Unclos) to "clearly establish the county's sovereign rights and jurisdiction over its maritime entitlements in the West Philippine Sea."

"I asked him to continue supporting the Philippine effort for a peaceful and durable solution to this dispute," Del Rosario said in a statement.

Westerwelle, when asked by reporters to explain Germany's support, Del Rosario said that a German professor of international public law was appointed as a judge to the tribunal, and that "all countries in the region, the European Union, have an interest in a stable and peaceful development."

"The Association of Southeast Asian Nations (Asean) and Chinese economies are closely linked by a free trade agreement and this shows us (that) everyone gains from cooperation and not confrontation," Westerwelle added.

In its "notification of statement and claim" filed before the UN, the Philippines said that it had appointed Judge Rudiger Wolfrum, a German professor of international law who served as president of the International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea from 2005 to 2008, as part of the arbitral panel .

China claims nearly the entire West Philippine Sea (South China Sea), while the Philippines, Brunei, Malaysia, Vietnam and *Taiwan* have claims to parts of it.

Invoking the Unclos, the Philippines haled China to the UN arbitral tribunal in hopes of compelling Beijing to respect Manila's exclusive economic zone (EEZ) and continental shelf encompassing territories in the West Philippine Sea.

China, however, had maintained that it has indisputable sovereignty over the area and that talks should only be on a bilateral basis with the countries directly involved.

Del Rosario, during the briefing, noted that based on his understanding, the Philippines' international partners, including the European Union, had taken the position that "we should seek a peaceful resolution to this dispute and the process of arbitration is considered a peaceful means in seeking this resolution."

Del Rosario also noted that the Philippines and Germany were taking steps to "re-invigorate defence relations" and that a delegation from the German Ministry of Defence (MOD) would be visiting Manila next week to "conduct bilateral discussions" with Philippine defence officials.

Asked whether discussions would involve exchanges in military training or procurement of defence equipment, Del Rosario just said that years ago, the two countries had an agreement which led to the training of Philippine military men in Germany and that the visit of German defence officials was part of a "current initiative to revisit and expand that."

"There will be a German military delegation that will be arriving to revisit this initiative and to work themselves into the possible drafting of a memorandum of understanding that would formalise other means of cooperation," he said.

Philippines draws German backing on sea disputes with China - Yahoo! News Philippines

I thought China and Taiwan have similar claim...the writer must be wrong.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## WuMaoCleverbot

*Japan plans to give patrol boats to Manila - report*
By: Agence France-Presse
February 11, 2013 10:40 AM

TOKYO - Japan plans to donate patrol boats costing *$11 million each* to the Philippines, ramping up regional efforts to monitor China's maritime activity in disputed waters, a newspaper said Monday.

The Japanese government plans to finance the deal in its fiscal 2013 budget starting in April and hopes to officially sign it early next year, the Nikkei business daily reported.

Japan will then provide the Philippines with the newly built patrol vessels, which will cost more than one billion yen ($11 million) each, the newspaper said, without specifying the number of boats on offer.

Both countries are locked in separate territorial disputes with China.

Japan's dispute is over a group of uninhabited islands in the East China Sea known as the Senkakus in Japan and the Diaoyus in China.

The Philippines is one of several Southeast Asian countries, including Vietnam, that are rowing with China over claims to parts of the South China Sea. Two of the hotspots are the Spratly islands and Scarborough Shoal.

The Japanese coastguard also plans to train Philippine and Vietnamese personnel as part of additional efforts to boost security cooperation with Southeast Asia, the Nikkei said.

In the fiscal 2013 budget draft, 2.5 billion yen has been allotted for such expenditure, it said.

Last month, Japanese Foreign Minister Fumio Kishida visited Manila and called for stronger ties with the Philippines to help ensure regional peace.

Japan's coastguard last month said it would create a special unit comprising 10 new large patrol boats to boost its surveillance of the Senkaku/Diaoyu islands.

The long-running row over the islands intensified in September when Tokyo nationalised part of the chain, triggering fury in Beijing and huge anti-Japan demonstrations across China.

In the most serious high-seas incident yet, Japan last week said that a Chinese frigate locked its weapon-targeting radar on a Japanese navy vessel on January 30. China has angrily denied the charge.


Japan plans to give patrol boats to Manila - report - InterAksyon.com

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Viet

@WuMaoCleverbot

Not bad, very generous from the Japanese. $11 million each per boat. Philippines can expect 10 vessels, so $110 mil. I read you have some $100 bil forex, just wonder why Japan donates and not sell?


----------



## Soryu

Viet said:


> @WuMaoCleverbot
> 
> Not bad, very generous from the Japanese. $11 million each per boat. Philippines can expect 10 vessels, so $110 mil. I read you have some $100 bil forex, just wonder why Japan donates and not sell?


Well, News appeared in long time ago, some sources said Japan donates for free, some said with credits, and some said Japan sell the ships.
I think second or third story is more realistic.


----------



## Viet

*Vietnam courts India as likely protector in sea spat*

Nirmala Ganapathy/ The Straits Times
Publication Date : 18-01-2013








As* China continues to press its claims on islands in the South China Sea*, worrying far smaller rivals, Vietnam is cozying up to a potential protector - India.

Top Indian and Vietnamese officials have been busy visiting each other, and are planning more flights and more trade between the two nations.

"There is some increase in engagement... and China is a factor in bilateral ties," said Professor Srikanth Kondapalli at Jawaharlal Nehru University. *"Vietnam also would like to have somebody who can help them in the South China Sea."*

India is not directly involved in the long-time territorial dispute, but its oil exploration there has irritated China, which claims almost the entire South China Sea, including the Paracel and Spratly group of islands, putting it in direct confrontation with Vietnam and the Philippines.

While India is not ready to play any role in the territorial claims, it has been quietly stepping up its engagement with Vietnam on other fronts.






_Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung and Indian Vice President Mohammad Hamid Ansari (Photo: VNA)
_

On a four-day visit that ended yesterday, *India's Vice-President* Hamid Ansari called Vietnam a "a regional power in Southeast Asia". And when Vietnam's Deputy Prime Minister Vu Van Ninh visited India last week, India's External Affairs Minister Salman Khurshid described Vietnam as a "major pillar of India's Look East policy".

*Vietnam has been urging India to play a direct role in the South China Sea* dispute, even persuading India to continue exploring for gas till March next year in a block off the Vietnamese coast, an area claimed by China.

India and Vietnam have agreed to add flights this year between Hanoi, Ho Chi Minh City and Delhi and set up a joint commission for trade. India is building a cultural centre in Hanoi.
*
Indian conglomerate Tata is in talks with Vietnam's officials to finalise a site to build a US$5 billion steel plant.*

"Our close ties and cooperation with Vietnam are important in the context of the new trends that are emerging in the region and also in the context of the emerging regional architecture," said Sanjay Bhattacharyya, a joint secretary in India's Ministry of External Affairs.

Indian companies are already involved in 70 projects in Vietnam in areas like agriculture, fertilisers and IT with the two countries looking at increasing their bilateral trade from US$4 billion last year to US$7 billion by 2015.

India has given Vietnam a line of credit of around US$4.6 billion, most of which is for a hydropower project.

While Vietnam has obvious economic interests in courting India, another factor is "the fear of China", said Dr Sachin Chaturvedi, a senior fellow at the Research and Information System for Developing Countries, an autonomous think-tank under the Ministry of External Affairs.
*
"Vietnam sees India as a more pragmatic partner,"* he said.

Nor has India completely ruled out intervening in the South China Sea dispute.

Last month, India's navy chief D.K. Joshi said the navy would respond if India's interests were involved.

"Not that we expect to be in those waters very, very frequently, but when the requirement is there, for example in situations where our country's interests are involved, we will be required to go there," he said.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zero_wing

Soryu said:


> Well, News appeared in long time ago, some sources said Japan donates for free, some said with credits, and some said Japan sell the ships.
> I think second or third story is more realistic.



Its a soft loan just like any other Japanese assistance we been getting a lot of that lately our economy is picking maybe is the reason

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Malaya

WuMaoCleverbot said:


> *Philippines draws German backing on sea disputes with China*
> By Fat Reyes in Manila/Philippine Daily Inquirer | Asia News Network &#8211; Fri, Feb 8, 2013
> 
> Manila (Philippine Daily Inquirer/ANN) - [B]A German foreign minister yesterday expressed his country's support for the Philippine position to solve its sea disputes with China under international law,[/B] saying that peaceful resolution was best for the two countries.
> 
> In a press briefing yesterday, German Federal Foreign Minister Guido said that the Philippines' territorial disputes with China over the West Philippine Sea (South China Sea) were discussed during a meeting with Philippine diplomats and officials and that his country remained supportive of peaceful resolution of the disputes.
> 
> "We appeal to all sides to resolve all the questions in accordance with international law and in a peaceful and cooperative way," Westerwelle said in a statement.
> Westerwelle and a 12-man delegation from Germany were in Manila for a two-day visit, the first by Germany's top diplomat to the Philippines in 12 years.
> 
> For his part, Foreign Affairs Secretary Albert Del Rosario said that he conveyed to his foreign counterpart the Philippine initiative to bring the territorial disputes before an arbitral tribunal under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (Unclos) to "clearly establish the county's sovereign rights and jurisdiction over its maritime entitlements in the West Philippine Sea."
> 
> "I asked him to continue supporting the Philippine effort for a peaceful and durable solution to this dispute," Del Rosario said in a statement.
> 
> Westerwelle, when asked by reporters to explain Germany's support, Del Rosario said that a German professor of international public law was appointed as a judge to the tribunal, and that "all countries in the region, the European Union, have an interest in a stable and peaceful development."
> 
> "The Association of Southeast Asian Nations (Asean) and Chinese economies are closely linked by a free trade agreement and this shows us (that) everyone gains from cooperation and not confrontation," Westerwelle added.
> 
> In its "notification of statement and claim" filed before the UN, the Philippines said that it had appointed Judge Rudiger Wolfrum, a German professor of international law who served as president of the International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea from 2005 to 2008, as part of the arbitral panel .
> 
> China claims nearly the entire West Philippine Sea (South China Sea), while the Philippines, Brunei, Malaysia, Vietnam and *Taiwan* have claims to parts of it.
> 
> Invoking the Unclos, the Philippines haled China to the UN arbitral tribunal in hopes of compelling Beijing to respect Manila's exclusive economic zone (EEZ) and continental shelf encompassing territories in the West Philippine Sea.
> 
> China, however, had maintained that it has indisputable sovereignty over the area and that talks should only be on a bilateral basis with the countries directly involved.
> 
> Del Rosario, during the briefing, noted that based on his understanding, the Philippines' international partners, including the European Union, had taken the position that "we should seek a peaceful resolution to this dispute and the process of arbitration is considered a peaceful means in seeking this resolution."
> 
> Del Rosario also noted that the Philippines and Germany were taking steps to "re-invigorate defence relations" and that a delegation from the German Ministry of Defence (MOD) would be visiting Manila next week to "conduct bilateral discussions" with Philippine defence officials.
> 
> Asked whether discussions would involve exchanges in military training or procurement of defence equipment, Del Rosario just said that years ago, the two countries had an agreement which led to the training of Philippine military men in Germany and that the visit of German defence officials was part of a "current initiative to revisit and expand that."
> 
> "There will be a German military delegation that will be arriving to revisit this initiative and to work themselves into the possible drafting of a memorandum of understanding that would formalise other means of cooperation," he said.


It was a good sign that our country is getting more support in International Community especially Europe.

Lets continue our fight in diplomatic way and peaceful means while we are building our country's credible defense system. It will takes time to become fully equipped militarily but we have to be serious and our government should strengthen and enhance more relations to gain support.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Malaya

*Philippines expects to get 10 Japanese patrol boats *

MANILA, Philippines&#8212;The Philippines said Tuesday it expects to get 10 new Japanese patrol boats within 18 months, as it tries to strengthen its sea defense capabilities amid a deepening territorial row with China.

Foreign Affairs Secretary Albert del Rosario said the boats were 40-meter (132-foot) vessels to be used by the Philippine coast guard.

&#8220;With the approval of Japanese parliament, the boats could be ready by next year,&#8221; Del Rosario said in a text message.

*&#8220;All 10 are financed by official development assistance from Japan and are soft loans,&#8221; *he said without specifying the cost of each boat.

DFA spokesman and Assistant Secretary Raul Hernandez has said that Manila asked Tokyo in December for the loan program for 10 patrol boats.

*&#8220;This is actually to upgrade the equipment of our Philippine Coast Guard for it to be able to do its mandate to monitor our seas, and make sure that there will be no intrusions in our maritime zones,&#8221;* Hernandez said.

The Nikkei, a Japanese business daily, reported on Monday that Japan planned to donate patrol boats costing $11 million each to the Philippines, a move it linked to regional efforts to monitor China&#8217;s maritime activity.

Japan and the Philippines are embroiled in separate territorial disputes with China.

The Philippines&#8217; dispute with China involves overlapping claims to parts of the South China Sea, which is believed to sit above vast amounts of oil and gas.

China claims most of the South China Sea, including waters approaching the coast of the Philippines and other Southeast Asian countries.

Tensions between China and the Philippines escalated dramatically in April last year when vessels from both countries became locked in a standoff at Scarborough Shoal, a rich fishing ground.

The shoal is about 230 kilometers (140 miles) west of the Philippines&#8217; main island of Luzon. The Philippines says that China has maintained vessels at the shoal to bolster its claim, reneging on an agreement to pull them out.

The Philippines has conceded its poorly equipped navy and coast guard are of little deterrence to China.

Their fleets are made up mostly of ageing, second-hand vessels, many of which date back to World War II.

Philippines expects to get 10 Japanese patrol boats | Inquirer Global Nation


----------



## Khitan21

Viet said:


> Although this thread is not about Vietnam, I can share my thoughts with you, my 10-point plan to resolve the dispute in the South China Sea. I posted the points some time ago. The idea is based on the current status-quo and a peaceful approach:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1# China abandons the 9-dash-claim
> 2# Vietnam accepts China sovereignty over Paracels including surrounding territorial waters (12 nautical miles)
> 3# China accepts Vietnam sovereignty over currently occupied Spratly islands including surrounding territorial waters (12 nautical miles)
> 4# Vietnam accepts China sovereignty over currently occupied Spratly islands including surrounding territorial waters (12 nautical miles)
> 5# both China and Vietnam give each other fishing rights in surrounding waters of Paracels and Spratlys, both cooperate in searching for oil/gas reserves in the SCS
> 6# China accepts Vietnam´s EEZ and continential shelf (200 nautical miles and beyond)
> 7# the SCS administratively to divide into 2 halfs (check map: the parralel line under Paracel islands), North part goes to China, South to Vietnam
> 8# China and Vietnam sign a 50-year non-aggression pact
> 9# China and Vietnam guarantee free navigation to all nations
> 10# China and Vietnam agree on regulary join patrols along the common sea border



That sounds like a great plan, I wonder why the Two Nations haven't talked more about this? I understand why China needs spartly islands; Not so much wanting the resource but rather China doesn't want to be contained by the US, but I think China can resolve that issue by working with Vietnam instead of claiming sovereignty over the entire spartly islands, that way China won't be as contained and they will have a more friendlier relationship with Vietnam

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

Khitan21 said:


> That sounds like a great plan, I wonder why the Two Nations haven't talked more about this? I understand why China needs spartly islands; Not so much wanting the resource but rather China doesn't want to be contained by the US, but I think China can resolve that issue by working with Vietnam instead of claiming sovereignty over the entire spartly islands, that way China won't be as contained and they will have a more friendlier relationship with Vietnam


I think VN has never accept that! 
Not like dispute with other country in SCS, China and Vietnam have conflict at both Paracel and Spratly Islands which battles began from China side to occupied Islands from Vietnam with military forces.


----------



## Viet

Khitan21 said:


> That sounds like a great plan, *I wonder why the Two Nations haven't talked more about this?* I understand why China needs spartly islands; Not so much wanting the resource but rather China doesn't want to be contained by the US, but I think China can resolve that issue by working with Vietnam instead of claiming sovereignty over the entire spartly islands, that way China won't be as contained and they will have a more friendlier relationship with Vietnam


As far as I know, both parties have been in talks since years. Difficult talks of course since the SCS issue not only has high stakes on the table but involves nationalistic sentiment.

If I am correct: last year in Beijing, we reached an agreement that the future sea border between China and Vietnam will base on the current status quo, peaceful solution, international laws (e.i. UNCLOS) and regional committments (e.i. Code of Conducts). In addition both sides want to step up the negotiation by meeting twice per year. Based on these, I made "my SCS-plan". 

If both parties are willing to meet halfway, I think a solution is possible.


----------



## Viet

Soryu said:


> I think VN has never accept that!
> Not like dispute with other country in SCS, China and Vietnam have conflict at both Paracel and Spratly Islands which battles began from China side to occupied Islands from Vietnam with military forces.


You´re right with China´s past aggressions. But we cannot undo the past. I am just pragmatic and seek a good solution for us. The current dispute with China is not good for us in the long run. Taking back the Paracels by force is not an option, I believe.

Just my personal thoughts.


----------



## cirr

&#8220;CFA 312" in service&#65306;


----------



## EastSea

A company under the Defense Ministry on Tuesday launched the ship, one of the most advanced ships used by the Vietnamese marine police.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## hurt

EastSea said:


> A company under the Defense Ministry on Tuesday launched the ship, one of the most advanced ships used by the Vietnamese marine police.



one of the most advanced ships&#65311;

I think that its the only one.


----------



## hurt

EastSea said:


> A company under the Defense Ministry on Tuesday launched the ship, one of the most advanced ships used by the Vietnamese marine police.



Sorry, only two


----------



## EastSea

hurt said:


> Sorry, only two



We have more. Today, VMP is equipped with modern facilities, including a fleet of ships consisting of K206, DN-2000, TT-200, 3500 CV rescue ship, high-speed patrol ships of 120 and 140, a CASA 212-400 aircraft, MS 600 spy device, various kinds of radar, devices for reconnaissance and detecting drug crime and other equipment.


----------



## Malaya

*Philippines pulls China-made globes*






*Chinese-made globes depicting "misinformation" by reflecting Beijing's claim to almost the entire South China Sea have been removed from bookstore shelves in the Philippines.
*
The globes feature a "nine-dash line", long used by China to demonstrate its territorial claims over waters and islands that are disputed by other Asian nations, including the Philippines.

Bookshops selling the globes have agreed to withdraw them from sale after the Philippine government informed them of the controversy, according to a report in the South China Morning Post.

"The DFA has been able to validate that educational globes which reflect China's nine-dash lines encompassing the South China Sea are being retailed locally by establishments that are totally unaware about the maritime disputes between the Philippines and China," Department of Foreign Affairs (DFA) spokesman Raul Hernandez said.

*"The management of these establishments are proactively prepared to discuss with the DFA remedies to be able to address the misinformation contained in the educational globes. The Philippines asserts that China's nine-dash line claim is an excessive claim in violation of international law."

The plastic globes initially drew the ire of Filipino Facebook users, who brought them to the attention of the government and the media. *

A spokeswoman for the National Book store, where the globes were on sale, said that it was willing to remove them from sale and had notified the supplier.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/335936/philippines-pulls-chinese-made-globes

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Malaya

*Kerry supports PH move on South China Sea
*
*MANILA, Philippines - New US Secretary of State John Kerry supports the Philippines' decision to take to international arbitration its dispute with China over the West Philippine Sea, Foreign Secretary Albert del Rosario said on Thursday, February 14.
*
During a telephone conversation last night, Kerry gave his support for the efforts of the Philippines to resolve the conflicting claims through the rule of law, particularly the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), Del Rosario explained in a statement issued by the Department of Foreign Affairs (DFA).

&#8220;I discussed with Secretary Kerry our initiative of bringing the West Philippine Sea issue to arbitration under UNCLOS. I emphasized the importance of this initiative to the future stability of our region in particular and to the future efficacy of international law in general,&#8221; he added.

The Philippines' top diplomat also recalled that Kerry already pushed for a peaceful resolution of the dispute when he was a Senator.

*&#8220;Secretary Kerry was a moving force behind a Senate resolution on the peaceful settlement of disputes in the West Philippine Sea,&#8221; the DFA chief said.
*
Both countries also agreed on working together to build stronger relations between the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) and the United States.

*In particular, Del Rosario mentioned the US offer to train ASEAN seafarers, an initiative in which the Philippines can take a lead on.

The global shipping industry, which carries 80% of international trade, employs about 1.2 million seafarers, the bulk of whom are Filipinos. 
*
Rappler.com: Kerry supports PH move on South China Sea

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## hurt

EastSea said:


> We have more. Today, VMP is equipped with modern facilities, including a fleet of ships consisting of K206, DN-2000, TT-200, 3500 CV rescue ship, high-speed patrol ships of 120 and 140, a CASA 212-400 aircraft, MS 600 spy device, various kinds of radar, devices for reconnaissance and detecting drug crime and other equipment.



What is K206 and 3500 CV ? 
only 2 DN-2000s 2500 tons 
12 TT-200s 200 tons ,only are boats.

Only 8 ships big than 1,000tons include 4 tugs.
Too weak.


----------



## NiceGuy

Viet said:


> You´re right with China´s past aggressions. But we cannot undo the past. I am just pragmatic and seek a good solution for us. The current dispute with China is not good for us in the long run. Taking back the Paracels by force is not an option, I believe.
> 
> Just my personal thoughts.


Only one solution that sound reasonable:China help VN to take over Itu-aba, VN help China when it attacks Taiwan.Other disupte isles remain status quo.Both win

Control Itu-aba also means VN got unsinkable aircraft carrier in SCS(east sea),it helps us to control the whole dispute region.


----------



## Viet

NiceGuy said:


> Only one solution that sound reasonable:*China help VN to take over Itu-aba*, VN help China when it attacks Taiwan.Other disupte isles remain status quo.Both win
> 
> Control Itu-aba also means VN got unsinkable aircraft carrier in SCS(east sea),it helps us to control the whole dispute region.


LOL I don´t believe that China will agree to the deal.


----------



## djsjs

NiceGuy said:


> Only one solution that sound reasonable:China help VN to take over Itu-aba, VN help China when it attacks Taiwan.Other disupte isles remain status quo.Both win
> 
> Control Itu-aba also means VN got unsinkable aircraft carrier in SCS(east sea),it helps us to control the whole dispute region.



you want to help chinese kill chinese? guess if vietnam invade taiwan,what will we do ?


----------



## Viet

To illustrate the importance of South China Sea as energy sea lane (source: US energy information administration)

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NiceGuy

Viet said:


> LOL I don´t believe that China will agree to the deal.


I just give them the way to save their reputation,we're dealing with US to kick those Chinese TW out of Itu-aba now.with or without China,we still have many ways to take it back



djsjs said:


> you want to help chinese kill chinese? guess if vietnam invade taiwan,what will we do ?


We attack Itu-aba and you only can sit and watch. wanna fight with us?we will sink ur cheap copy warship in no time,your army is only use to take some Photoshp pictures,no use in real combat.We only worry when US support TW and sanction VN. 

We just give u a chance to save your face.catch it...or lose all


----------



## djsjs

NiceGuy said:


> We attack Itu-aba and you only can sit and watch. wanna fight with us?we will sink ur cheap copy warship in no time,your army is only use to take some Photoshp pictures,no use in real combat.We only worry when US support TW and sanction VN.
> 
> We just give u a chance to save your face.catch it...or lose all



no more troll please!


----------



## NiceGuy

djsjs said:


> no more troll please!



Troll? U knew we fired to TW troop in Itu-aba last year,right. This year,we may take some more serious actions to those TWese troops


----------



## faithfulguy

NiceGuy said:


> Troll? U knew we fired to TW troop in Itu-aba last year,right. This year,we may take some more serious actions to those TWese troops



If Vietcong do that, than Hanoi, Saigon and all other Vietcong occupied cities would be going down in flames. Vietcong belongs to only one place, the jungle, where you guys are from. The free people of Vietnam do not need Vietcong.


----------



## EastSea

hurt said:


> one of the most advanced ships&#65311;
> 
> I think that its *the only one*.





hurt said:


> *Sorry, only two*





hurt said:


> What is K206 and 3500 CV ?
> only 2 DN-2000s 2500 tons
> 12 TT-200s 200 tons ,only are boats.
> 
> Only 8 ships big than 1,000tons include 4 tugs.
> *Too weak*.



idiot trolls,


----------



## chinapakistan

NiceGuy said:


> I just give them the way to save their reputation,we're dealing with US to kick those Chinese TW out of Itu-aba now.with or without China,we still have many ways to take it back
> 
> 
> We attack Itu-aba and you only can sit and watch. wanna fight with us?we will sink ur cheap copy warship in no time,your army is only use to take some Photoshp pictures,no use in real combat.We only worry when US support TW and sanction VN.
> 
> We just give u a chance to save your face.catch it...or lose all



You need to see a doctor, seriously.


----------



## Malaya

*EU lawmakers to China : Face PHL before UN tribunal*

A group of European Union (EU) lawmakers visiting the Philippines on Friday said China should join the arbitration process initiated by the Philippines before the United Nations to resolve territorial rifts in the South China Sea and prevent a military conflict.

Although the EU says it does not take sides to the sea row involving the Philippines, China, Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan, the European parliamentarians said they see the Philippines&#8217; legal action as a &#8220;good move&#8221; to enable a peaceful solution to the conflicts.

*&#8220;The EU is on the side of the Philippines,&#8221; *delegation chairman Werner Langen told a press conference. *&#8220;It is in the interest of all the EU states that through the adherence to international agreements we solve these questions and solve the question of natural resources.&#8221;
*
*The EU lawmakers&#8217; backing adds a crucial voice to the Philippine decision to initiate arbitration process under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) to try to declare as &#8220;illegal&#8221; China&#8217;s expansive claim to the South China Sea, part of which is known in the Philippines as West Philippine Sea.
*
China has until February 21 to declare officially if it would get involved in the landmark case.

&#8220;The way chosen by the administration through arbitration is the way to do it,&#8221; Langen said.&#8221;We hope China will accept this because it takes two to tango, to come to a solution.&#8221;

The lawmakers said they find unsettling and a &#8220;threat to international trade&#8221; what they call China&#8217;s &#8220;expansionist policy&#8221; in the region, including in the South China Sea, amid its rapid military build-up.

&#8220;We need here direct talks and also international talks in order to find a solution. Otherwise you will see an arms race going on in this part of the world and this is never good for humanity,&#8221; said delegation vice-chairman Robert Goebbels.

The delegation, headed by Langen, is on a five-day visit to the Philippines to see first-hand the economic and social developments in the country. They held series of meetings with their Philippine counterparts in Congress and various government officials, including Foreign Secretary Albert del Rosario.

Four members of Association of South East Asian Nations &#8211; Philippines, Vietnam, Brunei and Malaysia - have claims in the resource-rich waters. As a bloc, it has wanted to deal with the disputes as a regional group, a stance opposed by China, which wants bilateral negotiations to solve the overlapping claims without any international interference, specifically from its regarded regional military rival, the United States.

Manila has maintained that a rules-based approach is the only legitimate way in addressing disputes through a legal framework such as the UNCLOS.

UNCLOS is a 1982 accord by 163 countries that aims to govern the use of offshore areas and sets territorial limits of coastal states. The Philippines and China are both signatories to the treaty.

China is citing historical entitlements as basis for its huge claims over the South China Sea, a strategic waterway dotted with islands, shoals, cays, reefs and rock formations and is believed to be rich in oil and natural gas.

Many have feared the conflicts could be Asia's next flashpoint.

*&#8220;The E.U. is very sympathetic to the Philippine claims and we see the way chosen by the administration to try to have this arbitration is a good one because that will force the Chinese to eventually accept arbitration,&#8221; *Goebbels said. - Michaela del Callar, VVP, GMA News

EU lawmakers to China : Face PHL before UN tribunal | News | GMA News Online

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

faithfulguy said:


> If Vietcong do that, than Hanoi, Saigon and all other Vietcong occupied cities would be going down in flames. *Vietcong *belongs to only one place, the jungle, where you guys are from. The free people of Vietnam do not need Vietcong.


You don´t need to explode. Niceguy trolls too much. 

Yeah, you can trust his words. He will establish an troll army to invade Taiwan. Sure. And if you haven´t noticed Vietcong was a guerrilla army and does no longer exist.

As far as I know Vietnam officials denied Taiwanese accusation that Vietnamese coast guard fired on the island. Many assumed Taiwan just invented the incident as pretext to move heavy weapons onto the Taiping Island.


----------



## djsjs

Taiwan needs to strengthen its military presence on Taiping island.


----------



## faithfulguy

Viet said:


> You don´t need to explode. Niceguy trolls too much.
> 
> Yeah, you can trust his words. He will establish an troll army to invade Taiwan. Sure. And if you haven´t noticed Vietcong was a guerrilla army and does no longer exist.
> 
> As far as I know Vietnam officials denied Taiwanese accusation that Vietnamese coast guard fired on the island. Many assumed Taiwan just invented the incident as pretext to move heavy weapons onto the Taiping Island.



Vietcong is now absorbed into the Vietnamese government. So the Vietnamese gov is now called Vietcong.
I won't be surprise if Vietcong would try to take over Taiwanese territory. Vietcong need to be in constant warfare to get its people to support Vietcong.


----------



## Viet

djsjs said:


> Taiwan needs to strengthen its military presence on Taiping island.


...says China 

Actually the Reed Bank lying east off Palawan is the jackpot.

Reed Bank 'holds huge oil, gas reserves'


----------



## Zero_wing

Viet said:


> ...says China
> 
> Actually the Reed Bank lying east off Palawan is the jackpot.
> 
> Reed Bank 'holds huge oil, gas reserves'



Well that's china's logic claim one island then take all


----------



## Viet

faithfulguy said:


> *Vietcong *is now absorbed into the Vietnamese government. So the Vietnamese gov is now called Vietcong.


Says a illiterate Taiwanese. Should I repeat to you again:
Vietcong was a South Vietnamese guerrilla army and does no longer exist. After the unification, the whole organisation was desolved. Only North Vietnamese remained in the government.


faithfulguy said:


> I won't be surprise if Vietcong would try to take over Taiwanese territory.


Unfortunately it will never happen. Since ancient times we have the policy "never start a war with China, never fire the first shot".


faithfulguy said:


> Vietcong need to be in constant warfare to get its people to support Vietcong.


This is really BS! Does China need wars to get support from the people?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## White Lightning

*China-Japan island dispute: Beijing orders helicopter units to be combat ready*


----------



## NiceGuy

Viet said:


> As far as I know Vietnam officials denied Taiwanese accusation that Vietnamese coast guard fired on the island. Many assumed Taiwan just invented the incident as pretext to move heavy weapons onto the Taiping Island.


Denied ? Where is the link,bro ?



faithfulguy said:


> Vietcong is now absorbed into the Vietnamese government. So the Vietnamese gov is now called Vietcong.
> I won't be surprise if Vietcong would try to take over Taiwanese territory. Vietcong need to be in constant warfare to get its people to support Vietcong.


Because we always win, so we will keep fighting until we can bring all of our enemies down to our knee


----------



## EastSea

White Lightning said:


> *China-Japan island dispute: Beijing orders helicopter units to be combat ready*



off topic. east China sea.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

Viet said:


> Says a illiterate Taiwanese. Should I repeat to you again:
> Vietcong was a South Vietnamese guerrilla army and does no longer exist. After the unification, the whole organisation was desolved. Only North Vietnamese remained in the government.
> 
> Unfortunately it will never happen. Since ancient times we have the policy "never start a war with China, never fire the first shot".
> 
> This is really BS! Does China need wars to get support from the people?


Just leave that idiot arrogant alone, no use when you try to explain something with guy like that (he was banned, but maybe he get new ID user).


----------



## illusion8

Washington: China has been waging a quiet campaign, using ancient documents, academic research, maps and technical data to bolster its territorial claims in the East China Sea. 

According to the Washington Post, Chinas attention to maps and other documents has intensified, which has brought a spats of a new kind. 

*The most recent began shortly after Christmas when a Japanese publication posted what it claimed was a 1950 Chinese government document unearthed in Chinas own archives calling the disputed islands by their Japanese name, implying that Beijing then regarded the islands as Japanese, the report said. *

*Chinas embassy in Japan sidestepped the question of the documents authenticity, saying that even if the document exists, it wont change the consistent position of the Chinese government. *

According to the report, the embassy later dismissed the whole thing as a Japanese attempt to support their wrong stance with an anonymous reference document. 

*But just weeks after, with little explanation, the Chinas Ministry of Foreign Affairs shut down access to a large portion of its archival documents. *

A staffer at the archive last week said that the closure was due to an upgrading of the system, but was unable to say when the work would be complete. 

The bitter feud between China and Japan over a handful of rocky outcroppings may seem frivolous. But the fight carries great weight domestically for both countries  and huge implications for the United States. 

According to the report, if the military bluster and threats continue, *US diplomats and experts fear, it could lead to a military miscalculation and, in the worst case, an actual war that could draw in the United States, as an treaty-bound ally of Japan. *

*Chinas increasingly aggressive posture on such claims is driven by a heady mixture of nationalism and strategic and economic interests. *

There has also been a flurry of official interest in Chinas documentary backing for its territorial claims. 

Several seminars and conferences were convened by government-affiliated think tanks. 

At one high-profile gathering in Shanghai, scholars concluded with a five-point consensus to pool together our wisdom and to safeguard the sovereignty of the Diaoyu Islands and to oppose Japans violation. 

Chinas State Council issued a 5,200-word white paper that laid out, point by exhaustive point, Chinas case. 

This fall, key historical documents, atlases and journals were assembled into an exhibit at Chinas National Library. 

The librarys official statement included a sneering reference to the sheer historical lie of Japans claims, and the displays included records from imperial envoys stretching back to the Ming dynasty in the 1300s. 

Maps  ancient and modern  have been a particular area of focus, with the governments scientific and academic subsidiaries pumping out atlases, three-dimensional graphs and sketches of both disputed areas, the report said. 

*New passports were outfitted with maps that include a dotted area that pointedly marks Chinas claimed portions of the South China Sea. Even weather reports on state-run television have been amended to add forecasts for disputed areas, it added. *

According to the report, some international scholars, however, question how much credibility the recent burst of historical studies and technical data adds to Chinas claims  *especially given the fact that most think tanks and universities in China remain firmly in the grip of the Communist Party and its government. *

Chinese scholars have defended their work as sound, even as some are trying to build credibility by relying less on Chinese documents and instead finding foreign materials to support Chinas claims, it added. 

`China wages quiet war of maps with neighbours`

China's fake map's propaganda

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Cherokee

Even our Maps , Shows areas we don't control and if someone prints it without it , we go hullabaloo over it . 

Why it shouldn't be the same case with China and its Stand .

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Srinivas

If India shows the maps of Mauryan Empire and Chola empire then lot countries has to join Indian union

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

China is a liar. They invented the 9-dash-line und claimed everything in the South China Sea as theirs.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## illusion8

Viet said:


> China is a liar. They invented the 9-dash-line und claimed everything in the South China Sea as theirs.



Even the Vietnamese maps and claims are way off...right?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

illusion8 said:


> Even the Vietnamese maps and claims are way off...right?


The differences between China and Vietnam are:

- Vietnamese maps show Paracels and Spratlys as part of territory since Nguyen dynasty (1800 century), China not.
- Vietnam has permanent residents and infrastructures on the islands such as schools, kindergarten, army posts, weather stations, roads, etc..., China not.

In short, China is a liar and aggressor.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Srinivas

Viet said:


> The differences between China and Vietnam are:
> 
> - Vietnamese maps show Paracels and Spratlys as part of territory since Nguyen dynasty (1800 century), China not.
> - Vietnam has permanent residents and infrastructures on the islands such as schools, kindergarten, army posts, weather stations, roads, etc..., China not.
> 
> In short, China is a liar and aggressor.



Chinese show the maps of Yuan (mongol) Dynasty this is the time at which China is at its peak and want to claim every thing in it.

Instead why not they look at the point in history at which china is at low i.r Tibet and Xingxang are independent and leave those regions


----------



## amidamaru

just because they seen it as their own in the past, doesnt mean it it theirs now.

borders changed all over history, thats just the way it is... china need to deal with it and move on.


----------



## chinapakistan

amidamaru said:


> just because they seen it as their own in the past, doesnt mean it it theirs now.
> 
> borders changed all over history, thats just the way it is... china need to deal with it and move on.



Do you mean we should not talk the history and just take them using muscle just like what america british people did to amerindian?


----------



## Viet

amidamaru said:


> *just because they seen it as their own in the past, doesnt mean it it theirs now.*
> borders changed all over history, thats just the way it is... china need to deal with it and move on.


Correct. The SC Sea claim of China is based more or less on this one statement: "we (fishermen) discovered and gave them names since ...times".

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## chinapakistan

Sarjen said:


> no he meant to just shut up and not to be greedy....
> 
> what would be the Chinese reaction if we claim the Indian ocean and don't allow Chinese ships to pass through or we give tickets to the Chinese ships....after all the ocean has our name on it



Just do that, please, what stop you doing that?  soft nation~~


----------



## Ayush

every country has an official stand, so does china.


being an indian, I oppose this, but being neutral, I see nothing wrong with their approach.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## scorpionx

Ayush said:


> every country has an official stand, so does china.
> 
> 
> being an indian, I oppose this, but being neutral, I see nothing wrong with their approach.



I hope they should not mind our stand on Dalai lama issue then.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

Ayush said:


> every country has an official stand, so does china.
> being an indian, I oppose this, but being neutral, *I see nothing wrong with their approach.*


Sure, everyone is freely to express opinions, even stupid comments.

Historic maps support Vietnam's island sovereignty - People

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Ayush

scorpionx said:


> I hope they should not mind our stand on Dalai lama issue then.



they will sir. 
as I said, being an indian, I do oppose their stand, so being chinese they will oppose us.

but then, if u ask a sane chinese, how does he think of our stand as a neutral person, I think he will say the same.

they show their official stand, and we show ours.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## scorpionx

Ayush said:


> they will sir.
> as I said, being an indian, I do oppose their stand, so being chinese they will oppose us.
> 
> but then, if u ask a sane chinese, how does he think of our stand as a neutral person, I think he will say the same.
> 
> they show their official stand, and we show ours.


Actually I do not oppose their stance either. International politics is like a chess game.If the chinese gets chance its natural they will try to check mate Indians. Even if we take their massive economy and defence spending into account I do believe India can do enough to keep the Chinese on the toe as it is doing to us.

PS: Please do not call me "sir",me still look like a student

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Ayush

Viet said:


> Sure, everyone is freely to express opinions, even stupid comments.
> 
> Historic maps support Vietnam's island sovereignty - People



mate, read post 18 and 19.



scorpionx said:


> Actually I do not oppose their stance either. International politics is like a chess game.If the chinese gets chance its natural they will try to check mate Indians. Even if we take their massive economy and defence spending into account I do believe India can do enough to keep the Chinese on the toe as it is doing to us.
> 
> PS: Please do not call me "sir",me still look like a student



fine.
btw, what do you do sir, I mean friend.


----------



## Ayush

scorpionx said:


> BE (Electrical) working in a thermal power plant. *Made in China*



I am a future mechanical engineer. I was earlier thinking of EEE (electrical and electronics) but finally went for mechanical, due to the fear of electronics.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## djsjs

Viet said:


> Sure, everyone is freely to express opinions, even stupid comments.
> 
> Historic maps support Vietnam's island sovereignty - People



vietnam "evidence" is untenable,you may say ours are fake, too.however ,the past is not important. we'd better look ahead.

Your patriotic enthusiasm may lead you to support a tough move of your govenment.but what you have to face is a big country and would soon be world top both in econemy and military. so your govenment have only two choices,surrender or destroyed.though you can join in some kind of anti-China alliance,which will only delay the sentence but not change the final result.
vietnam should carefully weigh the way of survive.
harsh reality



Viet said:


> Sure, everyone is freely to express opinions, even stupid comments.
> 
> Historic maps support Vietnam's island sovereignty - People



vietnam "evidence" is untenable,you may say ours are fake, too.however ,the past is not important. we'd better look ahead.

Your patriotic enthusiasm may lead you to support a tough move of your govenment.but what you have to face is a big country and would soon be world top both in econemy and military. so your govenment have only two choices,surrender or destroyed.though you can join in some kind of anti-China alliance,which will only delay the sentence but not change the final result.
vietnam should carefully weigh the way of survive.
harsh reality


----------



## mastaan

djsjs said:


> vietnam "evidence" is untenable,you may say ours are fake, too.however ,the past is not important. we'd better look ahead.
> 
> Your patriotic enthusiasm may lead you to support a tough move of your govenment.but what you have to face is a big country and would soon be world top both in econemy and military. so your govenment have only two choices,surrender or destroyed.though you can join in some kind of anti-China alliance,which will only delay the sentence but not change the final result.
> vietnam should carefully weigh the way of survive.
> harsh reality



It is quite funny how 'anyone' in this world would tell a 'Vietnamese' about 'surrender or we destroy you'. US was at its peak, militarily and economically when it did that and rest as they say is history  

The days of destruction via weapons to conquer nations are over since early 1900 and today, ONLY diplomacy can lead to solutions. 

I can sense the pride at China being a Global Power, which actually is quite well placed. But, that does not entitle you to just be able to walk over Viets... At least history demonstrates that a Country like Vietnam would not roll over just because you have a great military and economy... But, suit yourself!

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## RIMPAC

Why do Indians cry about everything? Every slight thing, they think its such a massive deal.
Indians have an obsession with China. 
They try soooo hard to be like us and get the attention we get 
Try harder, much much harder.


----------



## Viet

djsjs said:


> vietnam "evidence" is untenable,you may say ours are fake, too.however ,the past is not important. we'd better look ahead.
> 
> Your patriotic enthusiasm may lead you to support a tough move of your govenment.but what you have to face is a big country and would soon be world top both in econemy and military. so your govenment have only two choices,*surrender or destroyed*.though you can join in some kind of anti-China alliance,which will only delay the sentence but not change the final result.
> vietnam should carefully weigh the way of survive.
> harsh reality


I must admit you sound so funny, a comedian. Surrender or destroyed? what a question! Maybe I remind you some of our previous encounters. Do you remember of the defeat of the Qing dynasty in 1788? No?

The Vietnamese army led by general Nguyen Hue butchered the invading soldiers of Great Qing Empire in the 5 day battle during the Vietnamese lunar new year holiday Tet of 1788. So if you have a chance to visit Vietnam, you can visit the "Chinese hill" in Hanoi, where 200,000 Chinese soldiers were buried.

harsh reality!






Vietnamese general Nguyen Hue (1753-1792)






Chinese cementary (Hanoi)

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Malaya

The nine dashes were points in the vast seas East of Vietnam and West of the Philippines where Chinese fishermen went fishing in ancient times. They have to mark it in order to know the locations where fish abound. Even Filipinos and Vietnamese fishermen went to these areas. Being nearer to shores, there was no need for Filipino fishermen to mark the areas. 






China's rejection of Philippines suggestion that both countries elevate their dispute in the West Philippine Sea (South China Sea) to the UNCLOS is an indication that China may not be able to validate its territorial claim. They know they can't wax their fairy tale arguments this time and those maps that they pulled straight out from Davy Jones locker will be useless in legal court.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Snomannen

Viet said:


> I must admit you sound so funny, a comedian. Surrender or destroyed? what a question! Maybe I remind you some of our previous encounters. Do you remember of the defeat of the Qing dynasty in 1788? No?
> 
> The Vietnamese army led by general Nguyen Hue butchered the invading soldiers of Great Qing Empire in the 5 day battle during the Vietnamese lunar new year holiday Tet of 1788. So if you have a chance to visit Vietnam, you can visit the "Chinese hill" in Hanoi, where 200,000 Chinese soldiers were buried.
> 
> harsh reality!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vietnamese general Nguyen Hue (1753-1792)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chinese cementary (Hanoi)



200,000 Chinese soldiers? There were only 15,000 Chinese + 20,000 (Nha Hau Le) Vietnamese were involved and even not all of them are soldiers.
Where did you get the number.


----------



## Viet

KirovAirship said:


> 200,000 Chinese soldiers? There were only 15,000 Chinese + 20,000 (Nha Hau Le) Vietnamese were involved and even not all of them are soldiers.
> Where did you get the number.


Actually 30,000 soldiers were killed and 3,400 captured in the battle of 1788, even the Chinese generals Xu Shiheng, Shang Weisheng, Zhang Chaolong and Cen Yidong were killed in action. 

I got the number of 200,000 from an Internet source. I guess the cementary was for killed Chinese soldiers of ancient Sino-VN wars.

Battle of Ng

Re-edit: among the casualty were 15,000 Qing troops (including soldiers and porters) and
20,000 Lê Dynasty supporters, as you quoted.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## HongWu

Yes, Chinese wages are so high it can quiet any war over maps between us and neighbors!


----------



## Snomannen

Viet said:


> Actually 30,000 Chinese soldiers were killed and 3,400 captured in the battle of 1788, even the Chinese generals Xu Shiheng, Shang Weisheng, Zhang Chaolong and Cen Yidong were killed in action.
> 
> I got the number of 200,000 from an Internet source. I guess the cementary was for killed Chinese soldiers of ancient Sino-VN wars.
> 
> Battle of Ng



The number of 30,000 is based on the Annals of the Dai Nam 
and the number of 15,000 Chinese + 20,000 (Nha Hau Le) Vietnamese is based on the Draft History of Qing.

Many Qing generals were killed, but I don't think that the number from Vietnam is actually real.


----------



## djsjs

mastaan said:


> It is quite funny how 'anyone' in this world would tell a 'Vietnamese' about 'surrender or we destroy you'. US was at its peak, militarily and economically when it did that and rest as they say is history
> 
> The days of destruction via weapons to conquer nations are over since early 1900 and today, ONLY diplomacy can lead to solutions.
> 
> I can sense the pride at China being a Global Power, which actually is quite well placed. But, that does not entitle you to just be able to walk over Viets... At least history demonstrates that a Country like Vietnam would not roll over just because you have a great military and economy... But, suit yourself!



As a spectator you will never get painful. so say whatever you want.
btw, US is on other side of the Earth, what it lost is only some scrap metal and some solders which is nothing , but vietnam lost so many civilian and development of half a centery .even US lost 10 times more, vietnam still can't affort the game.



Viet said:


> I must admit you sound so funny, a comedian. Surrender or destroyed? what a question! Maybe I remind you some of our previous encounters. Do you remember of the defeat of the Qing dynasty in 1788? No?
> 
> The Vietnamese army led by general Nguyen Hue butchered the invading soldiers of Great Qing Empire in the 5 day battle during the Vietnamese lunar new year holiday Tet of 1788. So if you have a chance to visit Vietnam, you can visit the "Chinese hill" in Hanoi, where 200,000 Chinese soldiers were buried.
> 
> harsh reality!



stories don't save your life. no chicanery can help you , face what you have to face.


----------



## Soryu

illusion8 said:


> Even the Vietnamese maps and claims are way off...right?


You wrong!
We just claim for our EEZ and Paracels and Spratlys as part of territory since Nguyen dynasty (1800 century), which China invade in the end of Vietnam War. We not claim all SCS!


djsjs said:


> vietnam "evidence" is untenable,you may say ours are fake, too.however ,the past is not important. we'd better look ahead.
> 
> Your patriotic enthusiasm may lead you to support a tough move of your govenment.but what you have to face is a big country and would soon be world top both in econemy and military. so your govenment have only two choices,surrender or destroyed.though you can join in some kind of anti-China alliance,which will only delay the sentence but not change the final result.
> vietnam should carefully weigh the way of survive.
> harsh reality


Huh, you even don't understand about situation but you spoke too loud, kid!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## mastaan

djsjs said:


> As a spectator you will never get painful. so say whatever you want.
> btw, US is on other side of the Earth, what it lost is only some scrap metal and some solders which is nothing , but vietnam lost so many civilian and development of half a centery .even US lost 10 times more, vietnam still can't affort the game.



Viets did not lose the war and US had to withdraw. You honeycoat it anyway, that is the fact. So, with that 'some scrap' metal, US did lose some respect and stature. What US did and did not achieve in the world is for the world to see. 

Viets lost half a century, but they kept their independence to themselves. Not sure if you will understand that concept to appreciate it. Else, by going to your logic, even Chinese or for that matter Indians should have just rolled over and let Japanese and British respectively stay in their territories out of fear of going back half a century. 

Like I said, being powerful is a nice thing, but getting grandeurish delusions is another thing... No growing economy can afford a war. It is as simple as that. But, the real question is why is there this sudden spurt in new found aggression towards thy neighbors? I just don't get that part.

But, don't understand what is the point of explaining that to you. Stay happy with your multi trillion dollar economy story and the belief that you could get your will accepted by others just because you have few bombs and what not! The real world fortunately doesn't work that way, irrespective of whether you accept it or not.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## djsjs

mastaan said:


> Viets did not lose the war and US had to withdraw. You honeycoat it anyway, that is the fact. So, with that 'some scrap' metal, US did lose some respect and stature. What US did and did not achieve in the world is for the world to see.
> 
> Viets lost half a century, but they kept their independence to themselves. Not sure if you will understand that concept to appreciate it. Else, by going to your logic, even Chinese or for that matter Indians should have just rolled over and let Japanese and British respectively stay in their territories out of fear of going back half a century.



the war US vs. vietnam is about live or die, it was in mainland vietnam, so no choice, they had to fight.

things are absolutely different between vietnam and china, it is only about money. they don't have to lose life for some islands that* don't belong to them*(nothing serious even belong to them).as we china don't care if some wars in future,if they don't either,go on the game . If the casualties are the same, vietnam extinct while we lose a province,and god knows if vietnam will be so lucky.i just give my adivce.
i know my words are a bit domineering, but that's the fact, face it . nothing in the world is fair, if china was not weak during the past 200 years ,their would not be such islands dusputes, we have to face it ,too.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

djsjs said:


> the war US vs. vietnam is about live or die, it was in mainland vietnam, so no choice, they had to fight.
> 
> things are absolutely different between vietnam and china, it is only about money. they don't have to lose life for some islands that* don't belong to them*(nothing serious even belong to them).as we china don't care if some wars in future,if they don't either,go on the game . If the casualties are the same, vietnam extinct while we lose a province,and god knows if vietnam will be so lucky.i just give my adivce.
> i know my words are a bit domineering, but that's the fact, face it . nothing in the world is fair, if china was not weak during the past 200 years ,their would not be such islands dusputes, we have to face it ,too.



was china weak in 200 years in compassion with his neighbors ? No. In the past Cantonese Governor recognized that: "Paracel not belong to China, then china don't have responsibility about incidents in the area". It is truth, China face with truth that Islands and SCS not belong to China.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Viet

djsjs said:


> saliva battle can not help you, is it hard to understand?


I understand you well. We have enough deterrence to discourage any venture from China.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Malaya

*China formally rejects UN arbitration on West Philippine Sea issue
*February 19, 2013

*China has officially rejected the Philippines' move to elevate the long-running territorial dispute over the South China Sea before a U.N. arbitration tribunal.
*
In a statement, the Department of Foreign Affairs (DFA) said it received Tuesday afternoon from Chinese Ambassador to the Philippines Ma Keqing a Note Verbale stating that China is rejecting and returning the Philippines&#8217; Notification and Statement of Claim.

In its Note Verbale, *China reiterated its often stated position that it has indisputable sovereignty over the entire South China Sea encompassed by its nine-dash line claim, which covers nearly the entirety of the sea, including areas that are well within Philippine territory and several disputed islands.
*
Despite this setback, *the Philippines &#8220;remains committed to Arbitration which is a friendly, peaceful and durable form of dispute settlement that should be welcomed by all,&#8221;* the DFA said in the statement.

According to Chinese state news Xinhua, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong Lei, at a briefing in Beijing, said the Philippines&#8217; note and statement of notification and claim have &#8220;serious mistakes both in facts and law.&#8221; 

Although widely expected, China&#8217;s move was still a blow to Philippine government's efforts to take a legal track in confronting China on overlapping claims in the resource-rich waters, called West Philippine Sea by Manila, which have long been a source of diplomatic and maritime tensions.

*Philippine officials have said that the arbitration process would proceed even if China would decide to ignore it but Chinese experts have asserted otherwise.
*
The tribunal, which would operate under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, would decide whether the arbitration case could be heard even in the absence of China.

*Manila initiated an arbitration process under the UNCLOS on January 21 to try to declare as &#8220;illegal&#8221; China&#8217;s expansive claim to the South China Sea.* &#8212; Michaela del Callar/KBK, GMA News

China formally rejects UN arbitration on West Philippine Sea issue | News | GMA News Online



*China rejects Philippine effort at UN mediation over South China Sea territorial dispute*


BEIJING &#8211; China says it has rejected the Philippines' attempt to seek international arbitration over conflicting claims to territory in the South China Sea.
Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong Lei said Tuesday that China's ambassador to Manila, Ma Keqing, had returned Manila's formal notification of the move to a Philippine Department of Foreign Affairs official. Hong said the proposal was historically and legally incorrect and contained unacceptable accusations against China.
The Philippines informed China last month of its plans to take the countries' conflicting claims to a tribunal operating under the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea. It wants the panel to declare Beijing's moves in the potentially oil-rich waters unlawful.
Six governments have overlapping claims in the South China Sea. China claims sovereignty over virtually all of it.


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/0...mediation-over-south-china-sea/#ixzz2LLXti87v

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Zero_wing

Viet said:


> So you troll have made up your mind, any plans when and where to start a war?
> Have you noticed? Philippines is mocking you a bit by calling a international court.



Well this rejection of a peaceful settlement is proves that their claims are made up well why risk being proven wrong and lying at the same time while you can use military force. 

Other moral victory for us



djsjs said:


> how many time should i tell you??? stories cann't save your life.



And we all told you acting like an arrogant jerk will not get you anything

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## hoangsa

*China rejects Philippine effort at UN mediation over South China Sea territorial dispute*

*What a shame* ! big country, big mouth, big muscle but small heart is proved again. Come on, China! If you are so sure, just bring the issue out, don't be peace just on your mouth, violent in fact . 

Be a gentleman, please act like real number 2 nation of the world

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Zero_wing

hoangsa said:


> *China rejects Philippine effort at UN mediation over South China Sea territorial dispute*
> 
> *What a shame* ! big country, big mouth, big muscle but small heart is proved again. Come on, China! If you are so sure, just bring the issue out, don't be peace just on your mouth, violent in fact .
> 
> Be a gentleman, please act like real number 2 nation of the world



Well folks that's a burn about a burn that's a second degree burn


----------



## Rechoice

China don't have right on East Sea of Vietnam and West Philippine Sea, nine dash map is hilarious.
China says it has rejected the Philippines' attempt to seek international arbitration over conflicting claims to territory in the South China Sea. It showed a true face of China.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## auspice

Malaya said:


> *China formally rejects UN arbitration on West Philippine Sea issue
> *February 19, 2013
> 
> *China has officially rejected the Philippines' move to elevate the long-running territorial dispute over the South China Sea before a U.N. arbitration tribunal.
> *
> In a statement, the Department of Foreign Affairs (DFA) said it received Tuesday afternoon from Chinese Ambassador to the Philippines Ma Keqing a Note Verbale stating that China is rejecting and returning the Philippines&#8217; Notification and Statement of Claim.
> 
> In its Note Verbale, *China reiterated its often stated position that it has indisputable sovereignty over the entire South China Sea encompassed by its nine-dash line claim, which covers nearly the entirety of the sea, including areas that are well within Philippine territory and several disputed islands.
> *
> Despite this setback, *the Philippines &#8220;remains committed to Arbitration which is a friendly, peaceful and durable form of dispute settlement that should be welcomed by all,&#8221;* the DFA said in the statement.
> 
> According to Chinese state news Xinhua, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong Lei, at a briefing in Beijing, said the Philippines&#8217; note and statement of notification and claim have &#8220;serious mistakes both in facts and law.&#8221;
> 
> Although widely expected, China&#8217;s move was still a blow to Philippine government's efforts to take a legal track in confronting China on overlapping claims in the resource-rich waters, called West Philippine Sea by Manila, which have long been a source of diplomatic and maritime tensions.
> 
> *Philippine officials have said that the arbitration process would proceed even if China would decide to ignore it but Chinese experts have asserted otherwise.
> *
> The tribunal, which would operate under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, would decide whether the arbitration case could be heard even in the absence of China.
> 
> *Manila initiated an arbitration process under the UNCLOS on January 21 to try to declare as &#8220;illegal&#8221; China&#8217;s expansive claim to the South China Sea.* &#8212; Michaela del Callar/KBK, GMA News
> 
> China formally rejects UN arbitration on West Philippine Sea issue | News | GMA News Online
> 
> 
> 
> *China rejects Philippine effort at UN mediation over South China Sea territorial dispute*
> 
> 
> BEIJING &#8211; China says it has rejected the Philippines' attempt to seek international arbitration over conflicting claims to territory in the South China Sea.
> Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong Lei said Tuesday that China's ambassador to Manila, Ma Keqing, had returned Manila's formal notification of the move to a Philippine Department of Foreign Affairs official. Hong said the proposal was historically and legally incorrect and contained unacceptable accusations against China.
> The Philippines informed China last month of its plans to take the countries' conflicting claims to a tribunal operating under the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea. It wants the panel to declare Beijing's moves in the potentially oil-rich waters unlawful.
> Six governments have overlapping claims in the South China Sea. China claims sovereignty over virtually all of it.
> 
> 
> Read more: China rejects Philippine effort at UN mediation over South China Sea territorial dispute | Fox News


Well as expected and it's proven Chinese are just good in reinventing their history that&#8217;s why they are avoiding arbitration.

Filipinos and Vietnamese cannot trust these people, they never live to their commitments, and in short they stab your back while you&#8217;re at sleep. If you give them a bite, they will eat you up bit by bit until nothing is left.

Anyway the Philippines has all the international laws on her side. Unlike that hooligan shameless thief.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## zxmint

It just dose not make any sense to quarrel at this issue here. You cannot get more supporters, anti-China guys would still be anti-China guys, friends are still friends, audiences are still audiences. I do not know if some guys are really laughing at China that it dares not to make a tougher move? Where does your confidence come from??? I dont like wars, cuz it will cause your country full of casualties, that is terrible. Face to the fact, China is just too close to you geographically. You can never get rid of this unless you ruin yourself.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## zxmint

hoangsa said:


> *China rejects Philippine effort at UN mediation over South China Sea territorial dispute*
> 
> *What a shame* ! big country, big mouth, big muscle but small heart is proved again. Come on, China! If you are so sure, just bring the issue out, don't be peace just on your mouth, violent in fact .
> 
> Be a gentleman, please act like real number 2 nation of the world



Are there any Vietnamese get killed by Chinese out there? I could understand your feelings, it is always hard to give up any territory under your control, no matter whether they are originally belong to you. Just like US will never give Texas back to Mexico, unless there is one day that Mexico become a stronger power that US has no choice but send it back.

But dont be that shortsighted. Honestly, I think Vietnam is the most promising country in Southeast Asia because you also believe in Confucious and you are always following our steps. You have a relatively better industry system also. It is foolish to be against with a such a giant and powerful neighbor. A wiser choice is to take advantage of it.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

zxmint said:


> Are there any Vietnamese get killed by Chinese out there? I could understand your feelings, it is always hard to give up any territory under your control, no matter whether they are originally belong to you. Just like US will never give Texas back to Mexico, unless there is one day that Mexico become a stronger power that US has no choice but send it back.
> 
> But dont be that shortsighted. Honestly, I think Vietnam is the most promising country in Southeast Asia because you also believe in Confucious and you are always following our steps. You have a relatively better industry system also. It is foolish to be against with a such a giant and powerful neighbor. A wiser choice is to take advantage of it.



Mexico to USA is similiar as Tibetant, Uijgur and Manchuria to China.

We do our best to protect country's sovereignity only.


----------



## Vitchilo

> Mexico to USA is similiar as Tibetant, Uijgur and Manchuria to China.


What are you smoking? Americans don't want to invade and annex Mexico.


----------



## Malaya

*Japan supports PH's move to resolve sea row with China before U.N. tribunal*







MANILA, Philippines - Japan has thrown its support behind the Philippines' move to resolve its dispute with China over territiories in the West Philippine Sea through the United Nations arbitration tribunal, according to the Department of Foreign Affairs (DFA). 

The DFA on Friday said Japan had expressed its support through a delegation that went to the Philippines to discuss maritime cooperation between the two countries that would help boost Manila's capability in protectiing its territories. 

&#8220;Both sides shared the recognition that the issues in the South China Sea is a matter of great interests for the whole international community being directly related to regional peace and stability, and the the issue should be settled peacefully in accordance with the relevant international laws such as the Unclos,&#8221; Japan and the Philippines' joint statement said.

The Philippine delegation is headed by Gilberto Asuque, DFA assistant secretary, as chairperson and Henry Bensurto, DFA special assistant, as co-chair. 

The Japanese delegation is led by Kenji Kanasugi, deputy director-general for Southwest and Southeast Asian Affairs of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. 

The DFA said that during a closed-door meeting, Japan's representatives said the country had expressed its intention to continue supporting the Philippine Coast Guard's capacity-building. 

It was earlier reported that Japan would grant the Philippines a $10-million soft loan for the purchase of 10 brand new multi-role response vessels that would be deployed to the West Philippine Sea.

Japan and the Philippines' joint statement, however, did not mention if the loan was discussed during the dialogue.

It said the delegations from the two countries exchanged views on programs and actions "to promote cooperation in the maritime field, particularly in maritime security, freedom of navigation and safety at sea."

"They also exchanged views on regional maritime issues and shared the best practices in efforts to combat piracy, especially on the maritime law enforcement capabilities of countries near piracy-prone areas," the statement added.

Regarding the issues on piracy and armed robbery in Asian countries and Somalia, the two countries agreed to further strengthen their efforts in addressing the said problems through the utilization of the Regional Cooperation Agreement on Combating Piracy and Armed Robbery against Ships in Asia and other frameworks.

Japan will also assist the Philippines in helping other countries near piracy-prone areas enforce maritime laws, the Japanese Embassy in Manila said.

Japan also has its own territorial dispute with China over islands in the East China Sea, which Japan calls Senkakus but referred to as Diaoyus by China. 

Japan supports PH's move to resolve sea row with China before U.N. tribunal - InterAksyon.com

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## chinapakistan

hoangsa said:


> *China rejects Philippine effort at UN mediation over South China Sea territorial dispute*
> 
> *What a shame* ! big country, big mouth, big muscle but small heart is proved again. Come on, China! If you are so sure, just bring the issue out, don't be peace just on your mouth, violent in fact .
> 
> Be a gentleman, please act like real number 2 nation of the world



Korean also rejected japanese effort at UN mediation about the dispute island. Kid, that is normal in adult world, it is very common action of a strong man ignoring some tiny week man..

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zero_wing

chinapakistan said:


> Korean also rejected japanese effort at UN mediation about the dispute island. Kid, that is normal in adult world, it is very common action of a strong man ignoring some tiny week man..



Well its ok! We know that theft hate court rooms

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## p3avi8tor69

No that China ignored the Philippines, what are the Pinoys going to do now?


----------



## Rechoice

p3avi8tor69 said:


> No that China ignored the Philippines, what are the Pinoys going to do now?



Phl benefits from China's refusal to join arbitration
By Alexis Romero (philstar.com) | Updated February 22, 2013 - 4:47pm

MANILA, Philippines - Defense Secretary Voltaire Gazmin said Friday that China's refusal to participate in the arbitration process on the West Philippine Sea (South China Sea) dispute is favorable to the Philippines.

Gazmin said Chinas decision would raise questions as to why it does not want to face the arbitration tribunal.

E di mas maganda para sa atin pag hindi sila mag-participate (It would be favorable for us if they [China] do not participate), Gazmin said in an interview.

Well, the natural reaction is why they dont want to face the tribunal he added. Gazmin noted that the arbitration process would continue even if China had rejected it. Whether they reject or not, the case will proceed even if they do not participate, he said. Last month, the Philippines challenged Chinas territorial claim to most of the West Philippine Sea before an international tribunal of the United Nations (UN).

China claims almost the entire West Philippine Sea and the East Sea. The area, delineated by a so-called nine-dash line, covers more than 100 islets, atolls and reefs.

The Philippines believes Chinas nine-dash line, which outlined its claims over most of the sea is illegal. Chinas claims also overlap with those of the Philippines, Malaysia, Taiwan, Brunei and Vietnam.

The Philippines hopes the international tribunal would declare Chinas claim in the West Philippine Sea as contrary to the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS).

The Philippines also asked China to desist from unlawful activities that violate its sovereign rights and jurisdiction.

In explaining the governments decision to bring the dispute to the UN tribunal, Foreign Affairs Secretary Albert del Rosario said the Philippines has tried almost all avenues for a peaceful settlement of the territorial row.

On Tuesday, China rejected the conduct of international proceedings on the dispute and insisted that the row should be settled through bilateral talks.

Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong Lei said the notice of arbitration forwarded by the Philippines have serious mistakes both in fact and law.

China reiterated that it has indisputable sovereignty over the entire West Philippine Sea, a claim that the Philippines has described as excessive.

The Philippines, however, said the refusal of China to join the proceedings will not derail the arbitration process.

*Chinas action will not interfere with the process of arbitration initiated by the Philippines on 22 January 2013. The Arbitration will proceed under Annex VII of UNCLOS and the 5-member arbitration panel will be formed with or without China, the Foreign Affairs department said in a statement.*

The Philippines remains committed to arbitration which is a friendly, peaceful and durable form of dispute settlement that should be welcomed by all, it added.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## ManilaBoy45

Fishermen Caught Out by South China Sea Spat 

Author: By Tomas Etzler for CNN
Published: Feb 18 2013 09:55:08 PM EST 

Fishermen caught out by South China Sea spat | News - Home

LUZON, Philippines (CNN) -

A year ago, a fisherman Efren Forones came back from fishing trips with up to three and half tons of fish. In return he was able to buy 15 to 20 kilos of rice for his family every month and was planning to send at least one of his six children to college.

Not any more.

He now returns with just 400 kilos of catch at best, meaning he can only afford one to two kilos of rice a month, while school for his children is an expensive luxury and out of the question.

The reason? He says he can longer fish in the fertile waters around Scarborough Shoal.

A cluster of uninhabitable sand banks and small rocks set in a shallow azure water lagoon about 130 miles (200 km) west from the Philippine island of Luzon, Scarborough Shoal is one of a number of territories at the center of an international dispute in the South China Sea.

He says the Shoal is the most important fishing ground in this region. "They (the Chinese) shoo us away, will not allow Filipinos to come near the area," he says. "They are the only ones that can fish there, not us. We lost Scarborough and it is hard. We earn nothing."

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## DENIEL

whats on the post


----------



## DENIEL

i used to think chinese and vietnam were sharing the same ancestors,cultures. most people living in south of china thought they were both vietnam and chinese ....


----------



## Soryu

DENIEL said:


> i used to think chinese and vietnam were sharing the same ancestors,cultures. most people living in south of china thought they were both vietnam and chinese ....


It's may be right, but The problem is some Chinese nowaday feel so arrogant and angry for past, also for their current life in China social with many stress and problems, feel sorry for their self-respect. And they want satisfy themselves with some actions.

I guess you saw the news!? Chinese protest are about disputed turn out bloodly riot and looting, Japanese and Vietnamese not like that! 

@NiceGuy: I guess you get that on Fb, right!? Well, It's just cheap way for a poor store own by fool people used a stupid trick and think some idiots will step in that store by those stupid words.
You can see those stupid throughout Chinese protest against Japan and that show the world how low some Chinese is it.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Soryu

*Nearly 300 Chinese people to see data on the Paracel Islands*
Well, news write on Vietnamese page, so I used Google translate for time...

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## DENIEL

Soryu said:


> It's may be right, but The problem is some Chinese nowaday feel so arrogant and angry for past, also for their current life in China social with many stress and problems, feel sorry for their self-respect. And they want satisfy themselves with some actions.
> 
> I guess you saw the news!? Chinese protest are about disputed turn out bloodly riot and looting, Japanese and Vietnamese not like that!
> 
> @NiceGuy: I guess you get that on Fb, right!? Well, It's just cheap way for a poor store own by fool people used a stupid trick and think some idiots will step in that store by those stupid words.
> You can see those stupid throughout Chinese protest against Japan and that show the world how low some Chinese is it.



yea ,but it was some chinese ,most chinese i have seen were modest,the disputed island between china and japan is not the same thing with vietnam .my friend


----------



## Soryu

DENIEL said:


> yea ,but it was some chinese ,most chinese i have seen were modest,the disputed island between china and japan is not the same thing with vietnam .my friend


Of course, I said that some, not all, and those disputed have different points, friend. Indeed, I don't hate China and chinese for first, but many things and many people were take wrong way.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

You guys will see lots of this floating around in the SCS in the not-too-distant future&#65306;







Specifically designed and made for wide deployment in the SCS&#65292;the Offshore Combined Floating Wind Power Generation Platform is composed of 9 XD93-2000kW WTGs&#65292;with the right octagonal structure having a radiu of apprx 820m&#12290;

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

cirr said:


> You guys will see lots of this floating around in the SCS in the not-too-distant future&#65306;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Specifically designed and made for wide deployment in the SCS&#65292;the Offshore Combined Floating Wind Power Generation Platform is composed of 9 XD93-2000kW WTGs&#65292;with the right octagonal structure having a radiu of apprx 820m&#12290;



Is 1 kg TNT enough ?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Viet

p3avi8tor69 said:


> No that China ignored the Philippines, *what are the Pinoys going to do now?*


I suggest Philippines should copy China. We remember of last year riot in China, where demonstrators and rioters staged weeklong protest against Japan. Philippines should remain peaceful though.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

cirr said:


> You guys will see lots of this floating around in the SCS* in the not-too-distant future*&#65306;
> 
> Specifically designed and made for wide deployment in the SCS&#65292;the Offshore Combined Floating Wind Power Generation Platform is composed of 9 XD93-2000kW WTGs&#65292;with the right octagonal structure having a radiu of apprx 820m&#12290;




Don´t provoke us and stay outside of our waters, otherwise...











VN´s Maritime Police and Border Guard ships

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Soryu

Rechoice said:


> Is 1 kg TNT enough ?



No need for us do anything, it will be sink by SCS winds and storms in anyway...

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## chinapakistan

Arguing here does not change anything. 
Is there any posiblity to let american go back to UK and give America back to Amerindian, who has 100% right and evidence to own that land, by arguing?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

Well, I know somebody live in jungle so they lack human knowledge and argument...well, We just need teach them...

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## PITA

Teach what? Hooked on Phonics?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## EastSea

PITA said:


> Teach what? Hooked on Phonics?


how big boy but bad boy, thought that he live in jungle must to learn !

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

PITA said:


> Teach what? Hooked on Phonics?


Well, if you don't know, so it's mean....

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Fsjal

Soryu said:


> No need for us do anything, it will be sink by SCS winds and storms in anyway...



50-50 maybe?

Can we get back on discussing instead of arguing.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

in Spratly Islands....

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cirr

A flotilla consisting of China MSA-31&#12289;MSA-21 andMSA-166 started the SCS patrol on 26.02.2013&#65306;
















The regular patrol will last 16 days and cover some 2000 nautical miles&#12290;

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

Our warships can protect our EZZ under rules of international laws. Sea pirates go to hell.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Soryu

Rechoice said:


> Our warships can protect our EZZ under rules of international laws. Sea pirates go to hell.


Don't worry, bro. We alway watching them, and kick them out if they violated our water.
Well, I just see many funny comment below this article... 
Restaurant in China puts up this sign: "This shop does not receive the Japanese, the Vietnamese, the Philippines, and dog"*|* The Feed*|* SPOT.ph

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cirr

&#8220;CMS 4072&#8221; launched at HPS&#65306;






More to come&#12290;Many more&#12290; And larger&#12290;Far larger&#12290;

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

The 1st Type 056 FFG &#8220;582-Bengbu&#8221; commissioned&#12290;Soon tens of this will be seen ploughing waters in the SCS&#65306;


























Kick some weak and stupid ***&#12290;

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## EastSea

free navigation, but don't provocate idiot things on our EZZ sea territory.


----------



## Soryu

Nice ships and nice target ..........

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

Soryu said:


> Nice ships and nice target ..........



It's correct, preparing for worst, we have enough toys here.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Fsjal

EastSea said:


> It's correct, preparing for worst, we have enough toys here.



But the Chinese has Type 730 CIWS and HQ-9 and HQ-16 SAM. Also, they have YJ-62 cruise missiles to eliminate anti-ship coastal batteries.



Soryu said:


> Nice ships and nice target ..........



You guys also have nice ships.


----------



## cirr

Anti-frogman automatic grenade launcher&#65306;


























Let's drench the retards in a bloodbath&#12290;

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

good mental drug but dead bodies will not turn home

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

*Japanese coast guard delegation visits Vietnam *


Thanh Nien News
Last Updated: Friday, March 01, 2013 05:00:00





Vice Admiral Kiyoshi Saishoji (L) are talking to Major General Nguyen Van Tuong in the Japan Coast Guard's visit to Vietnam from February 27 to March 1, 2013.


*A Japan Coast Guard delegation* visited Thursday the Marine Police Zone 3, a unit of Vietnam&#8217;s Marine Police Department based in the southern province of Ba Ria-Vung Tau, as part of its three-day visit to Vietnam.

During the delgation&#8217;s visit to Ba Ria-Vung Tau and Ho Chi Minh City, the Japanese delegation also met with *Major General Nguyen Van Tuong*, the political commissar of Vietnam&#8217;s Marine Police Department, according to a Quan Doi Nhan Dan (People&#8217;s Army) report on Thursday.

*Vice Admiral Kiyoshi Saishoji*, Deputy Director General of the Japan Coast Guard&#8217;s Guard and Rescue Department, said Vietnam and Japan must enhance their long-established ties through activities including patrolling, law enforcement, combating piracy and search and rescue sea missions.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

We can learn from the Japan´s coast guard how to spray water affectively to Chinese vessels. 






a Japan Coast Guard patrol ship (R) spraying water at a fishing boat (L) that is carrying Taiwanese activists


----------



## chinapakistan

EastSea said:


> good mental drug but dead bodies will not turn home



Same words to your countryman, or you think every one in your army is just superman, never die?



Viet said:


> We can learn from the Japan´s coast guard how to spray water affectively to Chinese vessels.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> a Japan Coast Guard patrol ship (R) spraying water at a fishing boat (L) that is carrying Taiwanese activists



Japan can do that to Taiwan is because compared to Japan, Taiwan is too weak, militarily, economically. That is not a good case study for vietnam against china.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## chinapakistan

EastSea said:


> It's correct, preparing for worst, we have enough toys here.



Your toys are nothing in front of PLA's hardware. If there is a war, what you can do is to do what you did to US.


----------



## Fsjal

cirr said:


> Anti-frogman automatic grenade launcher&#65306;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let's drench the retards in a bloodbath&#12290;



Love how the dancers (I think?) pose in front of the launcher.


----------



## Viet

cirr said:


> Anti-frogman automatic grenade launcher&#65306;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let's drench the retards in a bloodbath&#12290;


where is the pic taken? any X-Y coordinate?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

Vietnam army SSM Scud-B/Scud-C installations, variant:
Scud B, range 300 km, warhead 985 kg
Scud C, range 550km, warhead 770 kg

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## EastSea

chinapakistan said:


> Your toys are nothing in front of PLA's hardware. If there is a war, what you can do is to do what you did to US.



You are low educated boy, do you know about Ton-kin accident in Vietnam - US war ? Muddox warship of 7th flottia was destroyed by our navy.

The Gulf of Tonkin Incident was the two naval skirmishes between North Vietnam&#8217;s torpedo boats and the United States Navy destroyers. It took place in the waters of the Gulf of Tonkin on August 2 and August 4, 1964. On August 2, 1964, while conducting intelligence-collecting operations in hostile waters off the coast of North Vietnam, *the US destroyer USS Maddox was attacked by three North Vietnamese Navy torpedo boats of the 135th Torpedo Squadron*.


----------



## yusheng

Taiwan is going to conduct Military drill at Taiping Island on early April

In the drills which involve light and heavy weaponry, mortars and howitzers were fired at targets on the sea. The drills started on early April and will last seveal days.

Taiping Island is the biggest island in Nansha, boasting valuable clean water resources.

some one will express strong protest against the drill as usuall, but will be neglected as usall.


Last Sep. (2012), Taiwan made similar drill on the island and got mainland's applauds.


this is the article from China News Service (CNS)
Mainland applauds Taiwan&#8217;s Taiping drill
2012-09-04 10:16 Global Times comment 
Taiwan is conducting a live-ammunition military drill on Taiping Island of the Nansha Islands, the first such exercise by Taiwan in the South China Sea since regional disputes escalated this year.

We appreciate this exercise, which helps protect Chinese sovereignty.

Vietnam's protest against Taiwan's drill should be neglected. The Nansha Islands belong to China, which is an unshakable bottom line insisted upon by Chinese society. Taiwan, despite its economic ties with Vietnam and the Philippines, has overcome their opposition and made pragmatic efforts to safeguard Chinese sovereignty.

Territorial issues have remained unaddressed since the first half of last century. They are difficult to approach and solve today, despite rising maritime and sovereignty awareness across Asia.

In recent years, the Chinese mainland has been taking countermeasures to fight provocations over sovereignty by the Philippines, Vietnam and Japan, while also wrangling with the "smart power" diplomacy of the US in the Pacific. But Taiwan has its unique advantages in safeguarding Chinese sovereignty.

The hyping-up of the "China threat" mainly targets the mainland. Taiwan's efforts to protect Chinese sovereignty will not raise excessive suspicions, and it will not be labeled as a "bully."

Meanwhile, Taiwan is close to the Diaoyu Islands, which are under the administration of Taiwan's Ilan county. Taiping Island, the biggest island of the Nansha Islands, is under Taiwan's practical control.

Compared with the mainland, it is easy and convenient for Taiwan to take steps to protect sovereignty.

It is not that we want to shake off the mainland's responsibilities. Its comprehensive strength determines that the mainland must undertake the lion's share in such tasks. However, the mainland faces a complex strategic environment.

We understand Taiwan's special relationship with the US and the dilemma that Taiwan authorities face.

The US is using maritime territorial disputes to check the mainland's rise, and it does not want to see Taiwan help the mainland over territorial disputes in East Asia.

Nonetheless, Taiwan cannot remain as a bystander. It must look at the interests of the entire Chinese people, and act in the current island disputes in East Asia.

This drill on the Taiping Island comes at a good time. The mainland is building up its naval strength and reinforcing law enforcement in waters surrounding disputed islands. It is prepared for more possible frictions with regional countries in the future. In this process, actions by Taiwan like this drill will help stress Chinese claims.

Along with the growth of the mainland and the deepening of ties across the Taiwan Straits, Taiwan needs to change its habit of often being in lockstep with the US.

This is not a requirement by the mainland, but is prompted by the changing political landscape in the Asia-Pacific. Taiwan leaders should embrace this change.


----------



## Soryu

Viet said:


> where is the pic taken? any X-Y coordinate?


Spartly Islands for sure......


----------



## yusheng

Viet said:


> where is the pic taken? any X-Y coordinate?



&#27704;&#26257;&#30977;&#65292; 9°37&#8242;0&#8243;N 112°58&#8242;0&#8243;E&#65279; / &#65279;9.616667°N 112.966667°E&#65279; / 9.616667; 112.966667






æ°¸æç¤ - ç»´åºç¾ç§ï¼èªç±çç¾ç§å¨ä¹¦

















ÄÃ¡ Chá»¯ Tháº*p â Wikipedia tiáº¿ng Viá»t


----------



## jhungary

EastSea said:


> You are low educated boy, do you know about Ton-kin accident in Vietnam - US war ? Muddox warship of 7th flottia was destroyed by our navy.
> 
> The Gulf of Tonkin Incident was the two naval skirmishes between North Vietnams torpedo boats and the United States Navy destroyers. It took place in the waters of the Gulf of Tonkin on August 2 and August 4, 1964. On August 2, 1964, while conducting intelligence-collecting operations in hostile waters off the coast of North Vietnam, *the US destroyer USS Maddox was attacked by three North Vietnamese Navy torpedo boats of the 135th Torpedo Squadron*.



Since when did the Maddox destroyed by the North Vietnamese.........

Maddox finished his tour with the US Navy and transferred to ROCN as Po Yang in the 1972.

And most recent researched show that even the first strike was a fake, some historian believe USS maddox is hitted with a dry run of Vietnamese torpedo. Not an actual strike

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Fsjal

Viet said:


> Vietnam army SSM Scud-B/Scud-C installations, variant:
> Scud B, range 300 km, warhead 985 kg
> Scud C, range 550km, warhead 770 kg



Lol, these missiles are old. They take long just to get ready. As for DF-15 and DF-11, they are more accurate and only take minutes to get ready.


----------



## Viet

yusheng said:


> &#27704;&#26257;&#30977;&#65292; 9°37&#8242;0&#8243;N 112°58&#8242;0&#8243;E&#65279; / &#65279;9.616667°N 112.966667°E&#65279; / 9.616667; 112.966667
> [/url]


Oh, thanks. Our missiles are ready to destroy the target, just in case you start a war. 



Fsjal said:


> Lol, these missiles are old. They take long just to get ready. As for DF-15 and DF-11, they are more accurate and only take minutes to get ready.


old or not, they are good enough to erase a small islet in the SC sea. BTW Vietnam can self-produce Scud-B tactical missiles.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Viet

*Vietnam´s Sovereignty exhibition attracts visitors*


Updated : 2/22/2013 10:44:57 AM
Voice of VN





The exhibition on Hoang Sa island attract the participation of all classes of people, school pupils. (Photo: Tuoi tre)






visitors

















Postal Atlas of China published in 1933 shows China&#8217;s territory stretching as far as Hainan island (Photo: danangcity.gov.vn)


The exhibition showcasing newly-discovered documents relating to *Vietnam&#8217;s sovereignty over Hoang Sa (Paracel) archipelago* was wrapped up in the central city of Danang on February 21. 

*The event attracted thousands of domestic and foreign visitors,* among them about *300 were from China*, more than 100 from Japan and 500 from West European countries. They expressed their support for truth and justice that they learned through the documents at the event. 

Dang Cong Ngu, Chairman of the Hoang Sa district People&#8217;s Committee, said visitors&#8217; opinions written in the museum&#8217;s comment book revealed that they supported the organisation of the exhibition for the first time. 
Many condemned China&#8217;s illegal occupation of the Hoang Sa Archipelago. 

The exhibition, the largest of its kind to date, included *125 collections of maps*, three atlases and 102 books published in Western countries during the 18th and 19th centuries. *The documents, originally in English, German, French, Spanish, Italian and Dutch, and translated into Vietnamese*, affirm Vietnam&#8217;s sovereignty over Hoang Sa and Truong Sa archipelagoes.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## EastSea

jhungary said:


> Since when did the Maddox destroyed by the North Vietnamese.........
> 
> Maddox finished his tour with the US Navy and transferred to ROCN as Po Yang in the 1972.
> 
> And most recent researched show that even the first strike was a fake, some historian believe USS maddox is hitted with a dry run of Vietnamese torpedo. Not an actual strike



All aggressors can produce and modify the news (USA or China) in such manner as they want. The truth was that our Torpedo have been opened fire on provocateur, enemy's ship.







Photo taken from USS Maddox during the incident, showing three North Vietnamese motor torpedo boats





A North Vietnamese P-4 engaging USS Maddox.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## jhungary

EastSea said:


> All aggressors can produce and modify the news (USA or China) in such manner as they want. The truth was that our Torpedo have been opened fire on provocateur, enemy's ship.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Photo taken from USS Maddox during the incident, showing three North Vietnamese motor torpedo boats
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A North Vietnamese P-4 engaging USS Maddox.



Maybe in your dream the USS MAddox (DD-731) was destroyedby Heroic North Vietnamese navy torpedo boat. With loss with all hand perhaps?

Then explain to me how the second fake engagement which is the actual clause of the Vietnam War occur? If Maddox is destroyed by your Heroic Navy in the first one??

Fact to the matter is, USS Maddox taken 1 14.7mm cannon hit and no casualty. And stuck off Naval Register and transferred to ROCN. 

Now, are you ready to tell me ROCN bought a ghost ship from us? Or they bought a wreck from Gulf of Tokin??






USS Madox DD-731 in 1966 (The bottom ship with pennant 731 on bow)

USS Maddox (DD-731) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Dude, do you even know how America got involved in Vietnam war?
Or you are just Nice Guy Number 2??

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NiceGuy

jhungary said:


> Dude, do you even know how America got involved in Vietnam war?
> Or you are just Nice Guy Number 2??


You got involve coz VN is in the center of ASEAN , so US also can control Malacca plus China and protecting the oil-food supply route to Guam from Cam Ranh bay-VN.

Just like Mongol barbarian,US got humiliated defeated and they're going to collapse like Mongol empire after that defeat





Communist revival is ineviable,and USSR-Cuba brothers will soon enslave ur people


----------



## chinapakistan

EastSea said:


> All aggressors can produce and modify the news (USA or China) in such manner as they want. The truth was that our Torpedo have been opened fire on provocateur, enemy's ship.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Photo taken from USS Maddox during the incident, showing three North Vietnamese motor torpedo boats
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A North Vietnamese P-4 engaging USS Maddox.



Indeed I were low educated, I can not reach ur level.there is no way I can get high score in a Vietnam version history test.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Fsjal

chinapakistan said:


> Indeed I were low educated, I can not reach ur level.there is no way I can get high score in a Vietnam version history test.



Did USS Maddox really got sunk?
If did, the Vietnamese wins hands down.


----------



## Viet

*Vietnamese Coast Guard on patrol *

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## jhungary

Fsjal said:


> Did USS Maddox really got sunk?
> If did, the Vietnamese wins hands down.



Well, if USS maddox did not got sunk by Vietnamese navy then all their "Score" are comign from "imaginary" performance of there Vietnamese Individual Brain

If it did got sunk by the Vietnamese, then the 2nd Fake "Ghost Engagement" can never occur and the Whole Vietnam war did not happen, then those "Score" are also coming from the "imaginary" Performance of these Vietnamese Brain

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## jhungary

Viet said:


> *Vietnamese Coast Guard on patrol *



I think Vietnam need more Sub rather than surface vessel. You probbaly cannot go head to head with China in Surface ship but you can do soemthing like the German did in WW2 to blockade the whole SCS with sub.


----------



## Soryu

jhungary said:


> I think Vietnam need more Sub rather than surface vessel. You probbaly cannot go head to head with China in Surface ship but you can do soemthing like the German did in WW2 to blockade the whole SCS with sub.



China does not used same tactics like England and "the war" is different in here SCS. They don't want fire first shoot also become a bad boy, so they used civilian ships with light arm.

We need improve number of patrol vessel to control situation, Filippine lose in scarborough because they not hold enough ships.

For first step, 6 Kilo is enough, number of our submarines is more than any ASEAN country. VN need time to train and fit new toys in Navy for tactic combine all force in defense.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## jhungary

Soryu said:


> China does not used same tactics like England and "the war" is different in here SCS. They don't want fire first shoot also become a bad boy, so they used civilian ships with light arm.
> 
> We need improve number of patrol vessel to control situation, Filippine lose in scarborough because they not hold enough ships.
> 
> For first step, 6 Kilo is enough, number of our submarines is more than any ASEAN country. VN need time to train and fit new toys in Navy for tactic combine all force in defense.



Patrol boat only good at Early warning and intel gathering. If you want to keep tab on the Chinese Navy, then Patrol boat is the way to go. But in case of a stand off in SCS, Vietnam need something that can break the circle, surface ship will be powerless against the PLAN. Sub on the other hand can balance the fight.



EastSea said:


> It was the truth that our Torpedos have been opened fire on US Navy warship ? What does it mean ? Can you understand ?



*Dude, open fire and sunk is two different concept. Can you even understand that??*

You open fire *DOES NOT EQUAL TO *you destroy such ship.

In WW2, US used 170,000 Torpedo against Japanese Warship, so does that mean we sunk 170,000 Japanese warship??
If what you think uis true, then the 7th Fleet would already no longer exist as i think Vietnam, regardless how small it is, could have fired more than 100 torpedo toward American Warship. We only have 96 War ship in 7th Fleet. So should i say the Base in Japan and the Bases in Peral Harbor is actually empty?

If you cannot understand such a simple thing then i cannot help you LOL :coffee


----------



## EastSea

chinapakistan said:


> High educated in vietnam version history guy, if you prefer to living virtualized world, no way stops you.You can think whatever you wanna think, it does not affect the real world any.



Very poor idea, low educated boy. 

It was not "virtualized world". It was truth: 1954 France Colonie, 1973 Uncle Sam, and 1979 Mr. Ah Q (note that it means China, you may don't understand who is this) went home.
1965 the US destroyer USS Maddox was attacked by three North Vietnamese Navy torpedo boats. And now, if China is still going to be mad man, what have to do with him when we have more weapon, like 6 kilos imported from Russia and Bastion missile ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

jhungary said:


> Patrol boat only good at Early warning and intel gathering. If you want to keep tab on the Chinese Navy, then Patrol boat is the way to go. But in case of a stand off in SCS, Vietnam need something that can break the circle, surface ship will be powerless against the PLAN. Sub on the other hand can balance the fight.


I say it clear, 6 Kilo are enough until 2020 - 2025, when you gone too much in arms race, others can think you want wars and aggression. We just need weapons for defense,.....

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

jhungary said:


> *I think Vietnam need more Sub rather than surface vessel.* You probbaly cannot go head to head with China in Surface ship but you can do soemthing like the German did in WW2 to blockade the whole SCS with sub.


You are right. More subs are necessary, more modern ones especialy from Russia and Japan.
The Russia defence minister is currently visiting Vietnam and submarine base Camranh. Besides, VN´s Prime Minister is going to visit Russia later this year. So we may see some deals.

Anyway all cost money, I am not sure if we can afford what we wish. 



Soryu said:


> I say it clear, 6 Kilo are enough until 2020 - 2025, when you gone too much in arms race, others can think you want wars and aggression. We just need weapons for defense,.....


We need more than 6. China has more than 60 subs.
We don´t have any destroyer, while China has a dozen. We need a creditable deterrence in the SC sea..

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Soryu

Viet said:


> You are right. More subs are necessary, more modern ones especialy from Russia and Japan.
> The Russia defence minister is currently visiting Vietnam and submarine base Camranh. Besides, VN´s Prime Minister is going to visit Russia later this year. So we may see some deals.
> 
> Anyway all cost money, I am not sure if we can afford what we wish.
> 
> 
> We need more than 6. China has more than 60 subs.
> We don´t have any destroyer, while China has a dozen. We need a creditable deterrence in the SC sea..


Bro, You forgot the fact that China is big country and face with America, Japan, India.... and need forces for defend a big country also her interests and responsible. 

We not build a army, navy, airforce to match her, but to ensure if war break out, things which they got less than the lost. That preven some hawks go to the wars, and lend a hand to pigeons.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

Soryu said:


> Bro, You forgot the fact that *China is big country *and face with America, Japan, India.... and need forces for defend a big country also her interests and responsible.
> 
> We not build a army, navy, airforce to match her, but to ensure if war break out, things which they got less than the lost. That preven some hawks go to the wars, and lend a hand to pigeons.


But we have to calculate with the worst case that we face with China alone, like in the battle of Paracels of 1974, border war of 1979 and Johnson South Reef Skirmish of 1988. Giving the strength 1:10 compared to China naval force, we MUST step up adding more naval assets.

A weak country is a subject of blackmail of others.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Soryu

Viet said:


> But we have to calculate with the worst case that we face with China alone, like in the battle of Paracels of 1974, border war of 1979 and Johnson South Reef Skirmish of 1988. Giving the strength 1:10 compared to China naval force, we MUST step up adding more naval assets.
> 
> A weak country is a subject of blackmail of others.



_ Well, If situation become worst like that, only case is world war or China was become only superpower on this World and so far superior the others and still so evil, do anything which they want . In that case, hell for this world and us.

_ We're not weak either. Look at Filippine and some other ASEAN, though they rich more than us, anyone could said that they're stronger and got better in war than us!?

_ Our economy still need conversion, recovery and restructuring. 
_ We shall remember that, even naval base for submarine's fleet not bulding yet, and money for operation and remain it and Sub are cost very much, more than cost of all 6 Submarine.
_ I don't say like VN not buy any Sub more, bro. But for now to until 2020, VN need train, fit, and build-up many things, exam is people for professional army, also science, economy for boost defense industry. 
_ When life of people was good, rich, unite and country will strong, nobody can beat us. 

P/S: no b&#7909;ng, r&#7891;i &#273;&#7901;i s&#7889;ng kh&#7845;m khá cái anh &#417;i, anh &#7903; &#272;&#7913;c ko bi&#7871;t ngh&#297; sao ch&#7913; em ngh&#297; VN mình còn ì &#7841;ch l&#7855;m, chính sách thì c&#7913; c&#7913;ng nh&#7855;c vì ko dám buông ra, buông ra s&#7907; m&#7845;t ki&#7875;m soát, l&#7853;t &#273;&#7893;, suy y&#7871;u...!

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## EastSea

jhungary said:


> *Dude, open fire and sunk is two different concept. Can you even understand that??*
> 
> You open fire *DOES NOT EQUAL TO *you destroy such ship.
> 
> In WW2, US used 170,000 Torpedo against Japanese Warship, so does that mean we sunk 170,000 Japanese warship??
> If what you think uis true, then the 7th Fleet would already no longer exist as i think Vietnam, regardless how small it is, could have fired more than 100 torpedo toward American Warship. We only have 96 War ship in 7th Fleet. So should i say the Base in Japan and the Bases in Peral Harbor is actually empty?
> 
> If you cannot understand such a simple thing then i cannot help you LOL :coffee



You can not understand, what does the Tonkin Incident mean ! It's clear that we sended clear message to the USA provocateurs, "USA have to go home". At the end by Paris Peace Accords of 1973, USA finished his adventure in Vietnam.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## jhungary

Soryu said:


> I say it clear, 6 Kilo are enough until 2020 - 2025, when you gone too much in arms race, others can think you want wars and aggression. We just need weapons for defense,.....



No, 6 is not enought, even for defence.



Viet said:


> You are right. More subs are necessary, more modern ones especialy from Russia and Japan.
> The Russia defence minister is currently visiting Vietnam and submarine base Camranh. Besides, VN´s Prime Minister is going to visit Russia later this year. So we may see some deals.
> 
> Anyway all cost money, I am not sure if we can afford what we wish.
> 
> 
> We need more than 6. China has more than 60 subs.
> We don´t have any destroyer, while China has a dozen. We need a creditable deterrence in the SC sea..





Soryu said:


> Bro, You forgot the fact that China is big country and face with America, Japan, India.... and need forces for defend a big country also her interests and responsible.
> 
> We not build a army, navy, airforce to match her, but to ensure if war break out, things which they got less than the lost. That preven some hawks go to the wars, and lend a hand to pigeons.



The tactical situation in Vietnam is actually more or less the same with Japan. The only different between those 2 are, Vietnam is poor while Japan is rich. 

The solution however, is the same. Either vietnam boost up their shore patrol ability, or roll over and die. 

I am not talking about an all out race with China, as there are no way in probably 500 years Vietnam can catup up on par with the spending Chinese does, but building a sub is a mean of deterring any potential enemy for a naval engagement. Cause sub is the only offensive weapon in Naval Arsenal other than an Aircraft Carrier. And sub is way way way cheaper to build and easier to train than an a Aircraft carrier. 

Vietnam should focus on this, instead of land base missile or aircraft and patrol craft which only look pretty but have no or low value on any Seaborne target.



Soryu said:


> _ Well, If situation become worst like that, only case is world war or China was become only superpower on this World and so far superior the others and still so evil, do anything which they want . In that case, hell for this world and us.
> 
> _ We're not weak either. Look at Filippine and some other ASEAN, though they rich more than us, anyone could said that they're stronger and got better in war than us!?
> 
> _ Our economy still need conversion, recovery and restructuring.
> _ We shall remember that, even naval base for submarine's fleet not bulding yet, and money for operation and remain it and Sub are cost very much, more than cost of all 6 Submarine.
> _ I don't say like VN not buy any Sub more, bro. But for now to until 2020, VN need train, fit, and build-up many things, exam is people for professional army, also science, economy for boost defense industry.
> _ When life of people was good, rich, unite and country will strong, nobody can beat us.
> 
> P/S: no b&#7909;ng, r&#7891;i &#273;&#7901;i s&#7889;ng kh&#7845;m khá cái anh &#417;i, anh &#7903; &#272;&#7913;c ko bi&#7871;t ngh&#297; sao ch&#7913; em ngh&#297; VN mình còn ì &#7841;ch l&#7855;m, chính sách thì c&#7913; c&#7913;ng nh&#7855;c vì ko dám buông ra, buông ra s&#7907; m&#7845;t ki&#7875;m soát, l&#7853;t &#273;&#7893;, suy y&#7871;u...!



Getting it real is good, only if you have time. I understand where you coming from but unless some X-factor coming out from Vietnam, Vietnam will always a smaller market than China, hence Vietnam will always have a smaller economy than China on a 1 on 1 par.

The only real goal for Vietnamese Military as i can see is try to catch up and pull up against the Chinese so that they don't get left behind by the Chinese for long. And every year you do not do that and waiting on your economy to recover, it take about 3 to 4 years more to catch up. if you focus on your economy for long and ignore the serious gap between your Military, then when Vietnam become a prosper country, there may not be a vietnam to begin with.....

Realistically, you are right. But you guys are facing a uncomformal enemy, and what you don't see yet is, you guys a lagging way bebind. You do not have time to wait on your economy, by the it would be too late. You need to do your economy and Military parallely.

And if you use philippine as your pivot point, you will be plainly quite wrong to begin with, as Philippine are a very special case.
Philippine are under full US Protection until 1992. When they decided to kick us all out without a sound defence plan itself. THen economy crisis hit and they cannot do anything nor can they recover without our help. Hence the crappy military now. They don't need a military to defend themselve before then it's too late when they realise they need it and they have no money to afford it.



EastSea said:


> You can not understand, what does the Tonkin Incident mean ! It's clear that we sended clear message to the USA provocateurs, "USA have to go home". At the end by Paris Peace Accords of 1973, USA finished his adventure in Vietnam.



I don't oppose the idea of Vietnam war being a useless war where we do not have a clear goal of objective to start and come out with nothing but several thousand killed and kills half a millions of Vietnamese.

I do maintain the term Vietnam War is just a state sponsored largest Spree killing going on the history of the world. The war of Vietnam serve no purpose to us, to anyone. 

But saying the Maddox is destroyed is plainly wrong, regardless of the aim of Vietnam war. They are not destroyed then. i don't care what purpose the Vietnamese think it meant, when they are not destroyed, they are not destroyed, plain and simple

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

jhungary said:


> I don't oppose the idea of Vietnam war being a useless war where we do not have a clear goal of objective to start and come out with nothing but several thousand killed and kills half a millions of Vietnamese.
> 
> I do maintain the term Vietnam War is just a state sponsored largest Spree killing going on the history of the world. The war of Vietnam serve no purpose to us, to anyone.
> 
> But saying the Maddox is destroyed is plainly wrong, regardless of the aim of Vietnam war. They are not destroyed then. i don't care what purpose the Vietnamese think it meant, when they are not destroyed, they are not destroyed, plain and simple



No, US had clear target to start the war against Viet, like China, to keep Vietnam in two states and weak. Saigon Regime refused proposal of Ho Chi Minh to start general election to unify country following the term of Geneva accord 1954.
For the Maddox, you can say that there was in safe. But it's reported that Maddox was hit by one torpedo, and one of the American aircraft had been shot down. You can now denied it.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

jhungary said:


> *No, 6 is not enought, even for defence.*
> The tactical situation in Vietnam is actually more or less the same with Japan. The only different between those 2 are, Vietnam is poor while Japan is rich.


Yeah, no way, 6 subs are clearly not enough for the giant ocean, stretching from the border to China to the Gulf of Thailand, not to mention the Straits of Malacca. We may send 4 on patrol at any given time, while 2 remain on standby.



jhungary said:


> The solution however, is the same. Either vietnam boost up their shore patrol ability, or roll over and die.
> 
> I am not talking about an all out race with China, as there are no way in probably 500 years Vietnam can catup up on par with the spending Chinese does, but building a sub is* a mean of deterring any potential enemy for a naval engagement.* Cause sub is the only offensive weapon in Naval Arsenal other than an Aircraft Carrier. And sub is way way way cheaper to build and easier to train than an a Aircraft carrier.
> Vietnam should focus on this, instead of land base missile or aircraft and patrol craft which only look pretty but have no or low value on any Seaborne target.


We (Vietnam) need a combination of land base missiles, surface warships, aircrafts and patrol crafts as well as subs. A creditable deterrence will discourage any enemies to attack us.




jhungary said:


> Getting it real is good, only if you have time. I understand where you coming from but unless some X-factor coming out from Vietnam, Vietnam will always a smaller market than China, hence Vietnam will always have a smaller economy than China on a 1 on 1 par.
> 
> The only real goal for Vietnamese Military as i can see is try to catch up and pull up against the Chinese so that they don't get left behind by the Chinese for long. And every year you do not do that and waiting on your economy to recover, it take about 3 to 4 years more to catch up. *if you focus on your economy for long and ignore the serious gap between your Military, then when Vietnam become a prosper country, there may not be a vietnam to begin with.....*
> 
> Realistically, you are right. But you guys are facing a uncomformal enemy, and what you don't see yet is, you guys a lagging way bebind. You do not have time to wait on your economy, by the it would be too late. You need to do your economy and Military parallely.
> 
> And if you use philippine as your pivot point, you will be plainly quite wrong to begin with, as Philippine are a very special case.
> Philippine are under full US Protection until 1992. When they decided to kick us all out without a sound defence plan itself. THen economy crisis hit and they cannot do anything nor can they recover without our help. Hence the crappy military now. They don't need a military to defend themselve before then it's too late when they realise they need it and they have no money to afford it.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't oppose the idea of Vietnam war being a useless war where we do not have a clear goal of objective to start and come out with nothing but several thousand killed and kills half a millions of Vietnamese.
> 
> I do maintain the term Vietnam War is just a state sponsored largest Spree killing going on the history of the world. The war of Vietnam serve no purpose to us, to anyone.
> 
> But saying the Maddox is destroyed is plainly wrong, regardless of the aim of Vietnam war. They are not destroyed then. i don't care what purpose the Vietnamese think it meant, when they are not destroyed, they are not destroyed, plain and simple


First the defence, second the economy. A weak country is at mercy of aggressors!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## zxmint

EastSea said:


> Very poor idea, low educated boy.
> 
> It was not "virtualized world". It was truth: 1954 France Colonie, 1973 Uncle Sam, and 1979 Mr. Ah Q (note that it means China, you may don't understand who is this) went home.
> 1965 the US destroyer USS Maddox was attacked by three North Vietnamese Navy torpedo boats. And now, if China is still going to be mad man, what have to do with him when we have more weapon, like 6 kilos imported from Russia and Bastion missile ?


It makes yourself looked so funny to say Viets "won" those wars by yourselves. At least very few people in China would say we defeated Japanese and drove them out by ourselves in WWII. Not to mention you obviously lost the one in 1979. Although we Chinese are not quite proud of that, it is ridiculous for you to claim the victory when the war occurred in your land and it was your people who suffered the pain of war.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

zxmint said:


> It makes yourself looked so funny to say Viets "won" those wars by yourselves. At least very few people in China would say we defeated Japanese and drove them out by ourselves in WWII. Not to mention you obviously lost the one in 1979. Although we Chinese are not quite proud of that, it is ridiculous for you to claim the victory when the war occurred in your land and it was your people who suffered the pain of war.



You are liar, read again my post, no word "win" or "won" there. I stated only that" It was truth: *1954 France Colonie, 1973 Uncle Sam, and 1979 Mr. Ah Q (note that it means China, you may don't understand who is this) went home.*

The Sino-Vietnam war is innitated by China, When China sided to Uncle Sam, PLA invaded in our soil, it's crime, many thousands Vietnamese were killed or wounded by brutal PLA, nothing to proud for that. It's a shameful for China, big boy but bad boy with something unstable in mentality.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## NiceGuy

zxmint said:


> It makes yourself looked so funny to say Viets "won" those wars by yourselves. At least very few people in China would say we defeated Japanese and drove them out by ourselves in WWII. Not to mention you obviously lost the one in 1979. Although we Chinese are not quite proud of that, it is ridiculous for you to claim the victory when the war occurred in your land and it was your people who suffered the pain of war.


we won and China+US lost.So now,we control China's economy and Guam's life in our hands now. When VN+Russia navy decide to cut off oil trade route from Middle East passing through Malacca and SCS(east sea) , then China+ Guam will collapse 

VN+Russia navy base in Cam Ranh-VN are controlling ur life now,without oil from Middle east,China will collapse in 3 weeks, do u realise that u r loser and ur life is in our hands now?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Fsjal

EastSea said:


> You are liar, read again my post, no word "win" or "won" there. I stated only that" It was truth: *1954 France Colonie, 1973 Uncle Sam, and 1979 Mr. Ah Q (note that it means China, you may don't understand who is this) went home.*
> 
> The Sino-Vietnam war is innitated by China, When China sided to Uncle Sam, PLA invaded in our soil, it's crime, many thousands Vietnamese were killed or wounded by brutal PLA, nothing to proud for that. It's a shameful for China, big boy but bad boy with something unstable in mentality.



"Brutal PLA"

I heard the NVA and Viet Cong were brutal themselves.


----------



## EastSea

Fsjal said:


> "Brutal PLA"
> 
> I heard the NVA and Viet Cong were brutal themselves.



You heard it from propaganda of CCP.
The Chinese cultural revolution caused the death of 30 million people (source: the current Chinese government), but many died of hunger.
*How many people died in China's Cultural Revolution?*

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zero_wing

Fsjal said:


> "Brutal PLA"
> 
> I heard the NVA and Viet Cong were brutal themselves.



Sure sure and your a true Filipino right?


----------



## EastSea

Zero_wing said:


> Sure sure and your a true Filipino right?



He don't care about Philippine fishermen were harassed by PLA soldiers in uniform of surveillance personal-staff from China.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Fsjal

Zero_wing said:


> Sure sure and your a true Filipino right?



Yes I am. Calling me a false flagger is useless. If you say I am false flagger, I'll change my flag for your comfort. Is that alright?



EastSea said:


> He don't care about Philippine fishermen were harassed by PLA soldiers in uniform of surveillance personal-staff from China.



I do care. These PLA soldiers should stop. BTW, Vietnam should stop claiming the SC Sea.


----------



## EastSea

Fsjal said:


> I do care. These PLA soldiers should stop. BTW, Vietnam should stop claiming the SC Sea.



Paracel and Spratly belong to Vietnam from old time, Islands have been stating as part of our country.








We are ready to discuss with China and Pinoy friends to solve this dispute base on rules of international law. But Philippine people have to protect Scarborough Shoals first. You can join for the demonstration to prtotest against china aggressors.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## chinapakistan

NiceGuy said:


> we won and China+US lost.So now,we control China's economy and Guam's life in our hands now. When VN+Russia navy decide to cut off oil trade route from Middle East passing through Malacca and SCS(east sea) , then China+ Guam will collapse
> 
> VN+Russia navy base in Cam Ranh-VN are controlling ur life now,without oil from Middle east,China will collapse in 3 weeks, do u realise that u r loser and ur life is in our hands now?



You know, I like SF movies.


----------



## NiceGuy

chinapakistan said:


> You know, I like SF movies.


Brother Bear is back and willing to take control Malacca strait now.all u can do is just to keep sobbing and hope Russia-VN's navy will not cut off ur throat 


> .
> Russia&#8217;s Minister of Defense, General Sergei Shoigu will be in Vietnam on March 4-5 to discuss bilateral military ties, according to the website of Russia&#8217;s defense ministry. Shoigu's two-day trip to Vietnam follows his three-day visit to Myanmar.
> 
> General Shoigu is scheduled to meet with his Vietnamese counterpart, General Phung Quang Thanh, and Vietnamese President Truong Tan Sang.
> 
> According to the Russian Ministry of Defense, the two sides will hold talks on bilateral military ties, as well as security issues within the Asia-Pacific region.
> 
> Shoigu and his delegation will visit Khanh Hoa Province&#8217;s Cam Ranh port, which was Russia&#8217;s largest naval base outside its territory until 2002.
> 
> Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...se-minister-visits-vietnam.html#ixzz2MjNn0dBA



Once day,maybe Russia's bomer carrying nuke missile will come back to VN,too.

Tu-142 in Cam Ranh base before 1990


----------



## Fsjal

EastSea said:


> Paracel and Spratly belong to Vietnam from old time, Islands have been stating as part of our country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We are ready to discuss with China and Pinoy friends to solve this dispute base on rules of international law. But Philippine people have to protect Scarborough Shoals first. You can join for the demonstration to prtotest against china aggressors.



Ok, we can have it the peaceful way. But the thing is China uses historic claims. Also, doesn't Vietnam and China use same map?


----------



## EastSea

Fsjal said:


> Ok, we can have it the peaceful way. But the thing is China uses historic claims. Also, doesn't Vietnam and China use same map?



Not the same map, the map has been made from time of Nguyen Dynasty stating clear That " Great Nam Emperor" Vietnam today.
in the ancient map, chinese recognized that "Jiao Zhi Sea" mean Sea of Cao Chi people". No where is SCS in ancient time.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## EastSea

Phl, Vietnam agree to boost defense cooperation

MANILA, Philippines - Defense officials of the Philippines and Vietnam have agreed to explore ways to boost the defense cooperation between their countries.

The Defense department said Wednesday that the matter was discussed during the meeting of the Joint Defense Cooperation Working Group of the two countries last week in Manila.

&#8220;The meeting served as a mechanism for reviewing bilateral defense cooperation leading to a discussion of specific proposals on how to enhance defense cooperation between the two countries,&#8221; the department said in a statement.

&#8220;With a Memorandum of Agreement on Defense Cooperation signed in 2010, both sides identified mechanisms to substantiate the agreement,&#8221; it added.

The mechanisms include &#8220;practical cooperative activities&#8221; in the West Philippine Sea (South China Sea) and the east that seek to enhance confidence among their respective personnel.

The West Philippine Sea has been the subject of a long-standing territorial dispute in the region. China claims virtually the entire area while the Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia Taiwan and Brunei have overlapping claims.

Other mechanisms being considered include defense and military officials exchanges, personnel exchanges, information-sharing, analyst-to-analyst exchanges.

The two countries also exchanged updates on the situation in the West Philippine Sea and other regional issues.

&#8220;The Philippines emphasized the importance it accords to the peaceful approach to the issue and stressed that it is principle that underpins the country&#8217;s decision to bring the matter to the International Arbitral Tribunal of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Seas,&#8221; the Defense department said.

Defense Assistant Secretary Raymund Quilop led the Philippine delegation while Maj. Gen. Vu Chien Than, director of the foreign relations department of Vietnam&#8217;s Ministry of Defense headed the Vietnamese contingent. &#8211; Alexis Romero

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Soryu

Fsjal said:


> Yes I am. Calling me a false flagger is useless. If you say I am false flagger, I'll change my flag for your comfort. Is that alright?
> 
> I do care. These PLA soldiers should stop. BTW, Vietnam should stop claiming the SC Sea.


If you change your original flag for others comfort, so you're not Filippine.

Vietnam did not claiming SC sea, again, we claim our EEZ along Paracel and Spartly Islands. You said you not Chinese and you living in Australia but noone will believe you because what you said... 


jhungary said:


> No, 6 is not enought, even for defence.
> 
> The tactical situation in Vietnam is actually more or less the same with Japan. The only different between those 2 are, Vietnam is poor while Japan is rich.
> 
> The solution however, is the same. Either vietnam boost up their shore patrol ability, or roll over and die.
> 
> I am not talking about an all out race with China, as there are no way in probably 500 years Vietnam can catup up on par with the spending Chinese does, but building a sub is a mean of deterring any potential enemy for a naval engagement. Cause sub is the only offensive weapon in Naval Arsenal other than an Aircraft Carrier. And sub is way way way cheaper to build and easier to train than an a Aircraft carrier.
> 
> Vietnam should focus on this, instead of land base missile or aircraft and patrol craft which only look pretty but have no or low value on any Seaborne target.
> 
> 
> 
> Getting it real is good, only if you have time. I understand where you coming from but unless some X-factor coming out from Vietnam, Vietnam will always a smaller market than China, hence Vietnam will always have a smaller economy than China on a 1 on 1 par.
> 
> The only real goal for Vietnamese Military as i can see is try to catch up and pull up against the Chinese so that they don't get left behind by the Chinese for long. And every year you do not do that and waiting on your economy to recover, it take about 3 to 4 years more to catch up. if you focus on your economy for long and ignore the serious gap between your Military, then when Vietnam become a prosper country, there may not be a vietnam to begin with.....
> 
> Realistically, you are right. But you guys are facing a uncomformal enemy, and what you don't see yet is, you guys a lagging way bebind. You do not have time to wait on your economy, by the it would be too late. You need to do your economy and Military parallely.
> 
> And if you use philippine as your pivot point, you will be plainly quite wrong to begin with, as Philippine are a very special case.
> Philippine are under full US Protection until 1992. When they decided to kick us all out without a sound defence plan itself. THen economy crisis hit and they cannot do anything nor can they recover without our help. Hence the crappy military now. They don't need a military to defend themselve before then it's too late when they realise they need it and they have no money to afford it.



You have problems with your argument because you view our situation with American and Australian way. (Many of your opinion is same with me, so no need to said about it more!)

We're not US and Aussies, so we can't spend near 40 billions dollars for twelve Sub, and yet, not to say about others stuff.

Submarine in our tactic is not offensive weapon. I'm sure you know that China have 12 Kilo and dozen other SSK for now, but we still buy Kilo, Why!?

SCS is not blue ocean where Aircraft carrier team is dominated force and Vietnam has a long coastline along with the South China Sea which it's mean we have advantage for defend. We just need our force alway be ready and wait for enemy fell on the trap, our combine forces will give them tickets to go visit God of Sea.

Sub is good for silence strike, but just focus on this with innocent thought that China will go in trap so easy is idiot. 

I just said it with Viet, and will say it again for you, Jhungry. You're not VNese and you don't understand China enough like us!
China was not play only in SCS, they strike us on many sections: economy, diplomatic, culture....
We still good in military defense, but worse on economy section at now. New toys need time to learn how play with it either.

Why did people said that China can challenged US now!? Is it because China grow too much enough for now!? It's just a part of story, another like everyone know that US in economy problems and weakness in some place.

Let China troll with you and focus too much in military defense which it's mean winning for China because just like you said: VN never could cacth up China size.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Malaya

Soryu said:


> If you change your original flag for others comfort, so you're not Filippine.
> 
> Vietnam did not claiming SC sea, again, we claim our EEZ along Paracel and Spartly Islands. You said you not Chinese and you living in Australia but noone will believe you because what you said...


That insane guy is obviously Chinese. He doesn't have any slightest idea on what he is spitting on the air.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## gpit

EastSea said:


> No, US had clear target to start the war against Viet, like China, to keep Vietnam in two states and weak. Saigon Regime refused proposal of Ho Chi Minh to start general election to unify country following the term of Geneva accord 1954.
> For the Maddox, you can say that there was in safe. But it's reported that Maddox was hit by one torpedo, and one of the American aircraft had been shot down. You can now denied it.



Looks like you are more than just an ingrate, and an ignoramus of your own history, you also lack the modern history of Sino-Vietnam relationship.

China since 1949 has been all for a unified Vietnam, which now proves to be a big big mistake committed by stupid CCP.


----------



## Rechoice

gpit said:


> Looks like you are more than just an ingrate, and an ignoramus of your own history, you also lack the modern history of Sino-Vietnam relationship.
> 
> China since 1949 has been all for a unified Vietnam, which now proves to be a big big mistake committed by stupid CCP.



Propaganda of CPC is big big liar. Zhuo En Lai PM shaked hands with France 1954 to divide Vietnam, it was true double face of China. China liked that to push Vietnam to fighting against USA until last Vietnamese, and keep the situation in Vietnam unchanged. USA backed regim in Saigon to rejected Unification the country peacefully.

China has a dirty policy against Vietnam, with wet dream that to be boss in region. China media was almos silent when Vietcong taken power in Saigon 1975.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## gpit

Rechoice said:


> Propaganda of CPC is big big liar. Zhuo En Lai PM shaked hands with France 1954 to divide Vietnam, it was true double face of China. China liked that to push Vietnam to fighting against USA until last Vietnamese, and keep the situation in Vietnam unchanged. USA backed regim in Saigon to rejected Unification the country peacefully.
> 
> China has a dirty policy against Vietnam, with wet dream that to be boss in region. China media was almos silent when Vietcong taken power in Saigon 1975.




A complete BS!

Read this 






Oops, you lost your language. No wonder you history-less people are so easily being fooled. 

Here is the translation for your convenience:

People's Daily:

"Chairman Mao Zedong, Chairman of National People's Congress Zhu De , Prime Minister Hua Guofeng convey the warmest congratulations to Vietnamese Chairman ... (can't guess as it is clipped off. Possibly &#23385;&#24503;&#32988;, Tôn &#272;&#7913;c Th&#7855;ng), first General Secretary Li Sun (Lê Du&#7849;n&#65295;&#40654;&#31565, Chairman Chang Zeng (&#38271;&#24449;,Tr&#432;&#7901;ng Chinh), Prime minister Fan Wentong (&#33539;&#25991;&#21516;, Ph&#7841;m V&#259;n &#272;&#7891;ng) on the unification of Vietnam country"


Looks like your people are not only ungrateful but also gullible and, therefore, untrustworthy in making statement.


----------



## Rechoice

gpit said:


> A complete BS!
> 
> Read this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oops, you lost your language. No wonder you history-less people are so easily being fooled.
> 
> Here is the translation for your convenience:
> 
> People's Daily:
> 
> "Chairman Mao Zedong, Chairman of National People's Congress Zhu De , Prime Minister Hua Guofeng convey the warmest congratulations to Vietnamese Chairman ... (can't guess as it is clipped off. Possibly &#23385;&#24503;&#32988;, Tôn &#272;&#7913;c Th&#7855;ng), first General Secretary Li Sun (Lê Du&#7849;n&#65295;&#40654;&#31565, Chairman Chang Zeng (&#38271;&#24449;,Tr&#432;&#7901;ng Chinh), Prime minister Fan Wentong (&#33539;&#25991;&#21516;, Ph&#7841;m V&#259;n &#272;&#7891;ng) on the realization of Vietnam country"
> 
> 
> Looks like your people are not only ungrateful but also gullible and, therefore, untrustworthy in making statement.



I said " almost silent " ha, ha, its was the truth that China was very sadly, but China couldn't shoot a mouth simply. After unification of Vietnam 1976, China backed Khmer Rouge to attack Vietnam.

Its the true face of China: talk and do is not the same.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

gpit said:


> Looks like you are more than just an ingrate, and an ignoramus of your own history, you also lack the modern history of Sino-Vietnam relationship.
> 
> *China since 1949 has been all for a unified Vietnam*, which now proves to be a big big mistake committed by stupid CCP.


You lie! Since centuries China plays a game with the goal: keeping Vietnam weak, poor and divided, waiting for a chance to take it back to China´s empire. Your dream day and night.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Soryu

gpit said:


> A complete BS!
> 
> Read this
> 
> Oops, you lost your language. No wonder you history-less people are so easily being fooled.
> 
> Here is the translation for your convenience:
> 
> People's Daily:
> 
> "Chairman Mao Zedong, Chairman of National People's Congress Zhu De , Prime Minister Hua Guofeng convey the warmest congratulations to Vietnamese Chairman ... (can't guess as it is clipped off. Possibly &#23385;&#24503;&#32988;, Tôn &#272;&#7913;c Th&#7855;ng), first General Secretary Li Sun (Lê Du&#7849;n&#65295;&#40654;&#31565, Chairman Chang Zeng (&#38271;&#24449;,Tr&#432;&#7901;ng Chinh), Prime minister Fan Wentong (&#33539;&#25991;&#21516;, Ph&#7841;m V&#259;n &#272;&#7891;ng) on the unification of Vietnam country"
> 
> 
> Looks like your people are not only ungrateful but also gullible and, therefore, untrustworthy in making statement.


Oh, VNese, why did you need waste time with this one!? 

1. He is idiot, and don't understand what's political and what did happening! He lack knowledge to read history.
2. He just like "china true color" in past, pretend himself is innocent, give a hand to shake, another hand hold a knife to threaten...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

Island and marine sovereignty in the Constitution


VietNamNet Bridge - *"Vietnams sovereignty over the sea and the islands, especially the Truong Sa (Spratly) and Hoang Sa (Paracel) archipelagos must be powerfully shown in the Constitution," *said Mr. Tran Ngoc Dinh, from the Hanoi Law University -- at a recent workshop on the draft amendments to the Constitution 1992 in Hanoi on March 1.







At the meeting, the most discussed content is the provisions on human rights and citizenship. The participants said that the draft Constitution moving the human rights and citizenship from chapter 5 to chapter 2 is a step forward.

A number of additional rights in the draft amendments are new and humane but they are unfeasible. For example, the provision on peoples right to live in a healthy environment. 

According to Dr. Nguyen Van Cuong, Deputy Director of the Institute of Legal Sciences, Ministry of Justice, this rule is difficult to implement "in the context of economic development, with the process of industrialization and mining activities... ".

The Hanoi Law Universitys Tran Ngoc Dinh said that the inclusion of the rights that are unable to implement affects the dignity of the Constitution.

Related to article 26 on freedom of speech, press and demonstration, Dinh said that the use of the phrase "prescribed by law" may lead to ambiguous interpretations and facilitate law enacting agencies to explain law subjectively. So, the principles of respect for human rights and freedom "are only given to the National Assembly to issue."

Commenting on article 21, which says "everyone has the right to live," Dr. Do Thi Van Anh, from the Trade Union University, said that the concept of "people" and "citizens" should be considered. Because if we see the right to live is the right of everyone, "we will have to abandon the death penalty because there is no right to execution of death row".

Dr. Nguyen Van Cuong emphasized the backwardness of the local government organization model in three levels: provincial, district and commune; each level has People's Council and People's Committee. According to him, this is the model that has existed from the centrally planned economy.

When Vietnam switched to the market mechanism, the governments role has changed from the dominant role in the game into one of the "players" in the game. To play well, that player must be quick response and dynamic," he said.

In particular, in the dynamic cities, this model is more inappropriate. Ho Chi Minh City and Da Nang have longed for having a mechanism to establish more dynamic urban authorities, which is different with the countryside.

Dr. Cuong said: "In the current model, the Peoples Committee operates in the collective mechanism, so it is extremely difficult for dividing individual and group responsibilities."

Mr. Cuong proposed that the Constitution should only prescribe that centrally-governed cities must have the Peoples Council. The district and commune levels should only have administrative agencies. He also proposed to remove the term People's Committee to replace by the term state administrative agencies in the locality.

At the conference, many people said that the draft Constitution removes Article 66 on the role of the young generation, the youth organizations in society; in the development of the country is a step backwards.

Meanwhile, the forces from 0-30 years account for more than 50% of the population. Other countries in the world see the young generation as the owner in the future and the current owner of the country. So Article 66 should not be removed.

My Hoa

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## zxmint

NiceGuy said:


> we won and China+US lost.So now,we control China's economy and Guam's life in our hands now. When VN+Russia navy decide to cut off oil trade route from Middle East passing through Malacca and SCS(east sea) , then China+ Guam will collapse
> 
> VN+Russia navy base in Cam Ranh-VN are controlling ur life now,without oil from Middle east,China will collapse in 3 weeks, do u realise that u r loser and ur life is in our hands now?


Well,well, keep dreaming~~~Whatever, you are not eligible to be viewed as an enemy of China. Russians cut off China's supply route? What kind of Russians you are talking about here? Russians from Mars? They don't have the ability nor will to do that.



NiceGuy said:


> we won and China+US lost.So now,we control China's economy and Guam's life in our hands now. When VN+Russia navy decide to cut off oil trade route from Middle East passing through Malacca and SCS(east sea) , then China+ Guam will collapse
> 
> VN+Russia navy base in Cam Ranh-VN are controlling ur life now,without oil from Middle east,China will collapse in 3 weeks, do u realise that u r loser and ur life is in our hands now?


Well,well, keep dreaming~~~Whatever, you are not eligible to be viewed as an enemy of China. Russians cut off China's supply route? What kind of Russians you are talking about here? Russians from Mars? They don't have the ability nor will to do that.


----------



## S10

Soon to be effective, the government will merge its Fisheries Law Enforcement Command, China Marine Surveillance, Maritime Safety Administration and Customs into a single unified entity. After the merger, all of its vessels would likely be armed, since the new agency is paramilitary in nature instead of a civilian department. The new agency will be named China Maritime Police.






????????????? ?????????25? - 2013?? - ???

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cirr

*China begins fishery patrols in S China Sea*

Xinhua, March 10, 2013

China's fishery authority said Sunday that this year's regular fishery patrols in the South China Sea have been launched to ensure the safety and legitimate interests of Chinese fishermen.

By Sunday, 21 medium and large patrol ships and over 3,000 personnel had been dispatched to missions in key fishery areas, according to Liu Guimao, a senior official with the South China Sea Fishery Administration under the Ministry of Agriculture.

China's fishery administration ships are currently patrolling waters off the Huangyan Islands, Meiji Reef, Nansha Islands, Xisha Islands and the Beibu Gulf, said Liu.

Liu said the patrols are expected to last for weeks, without giving an exact timeline.

China begins fishery patrols in S China Sea- China.org.cn


----------



## cirr

*China marine surveillance detachment stationed in Sansha City*

Updated: 2013-03-10 02:05(Xinhua) 

SANSHA, Hainan - A China Marine Surveillance (CMS) detachment was officially stationed in the nation's southernmost city of Sansha on Saturday.

Yang Zhong, deputy head of the detachment, said the team will carry out regular patrolling and observation missions including the management of maritime space and protection of marine ecology and islands.

"It means CMS has enhanced its administrative management of the Sansha waters, and effectively covered the whole South China Sea," said Zhang Weijian, an official with CMS's South Sea fleet.

As China's youngest city, Sansha was officially set up in July last year on Yongxing Island in the South China Sea. The city administers three island groups -- Xisha, Zhongsha and Nansha -- and their surrounding waters in the South China Sea.

China marine surveillance detachment stationed in Sansha City|Politics|chinadaily.com.cn


----------



## EastSea

*VN reaffirms sovereignty over Hoang Sa, Truong Sa*


07:31 | 08/03/2013

VGP - Viet Nam affirms its sovereignty over Hoang Sa (Paracel) and Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelagoes. 

Foreign Ministry Spokesperson Luong Thanh Nghi said at a regular press briefing in Ha Noi on March 7 as he answered reporters&#8217; queries regarding Viet Nam&#8217;s response to the recent Chinese sea patrol in the East Sea , including the country&#8217;s two archipelagoes. 

All actions in the region that take place without Viet Nam&#8217;s permission are violations of its sovereignty which the country resolutely opposes, the official added.-VNA

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Skyman

Excellent. Lets see these fools try and mess with us.


----------



## cirr

It's high time to bring the currently scattered maritime law enforcement agencies under one unfied command&#12290;

The new National Oceanic Administration&#65288;NOA&#65289; will have well over 1000 vessels of various sizes at its disposable&#12290;


----------



## cirr

*China to restructure oceanic administration, enhance maritime law enforcement* 

English.news.cn 2013-03-10 08:12:57 





_Photo taken on March 10, 2013 shows the office building of the National Oceanic Administration in Beijing, capital of China. China plans to restructure the country's top oceanic administration to enhance maritime law enforcement and better protect and use its oceanic resources.The move will bring China's maritime law enforcement forces, currently scattered in different ministries, under the unified management of one single administration, according to a report delivered to the annual parliamentary session on Sunday. (Xinhua/Chen Shugen)_ 

BEIJING, March 10 (Xinhua) -- China plans to restructure the country's top oceanic administration to enhance maritime law enforcement and better protect and use its oceanic resources.

The move will bring China's maritime law enforcement forces, currently scattered in different ministries, under the unified management of one single administration, according to a report to be delivered by State Councilor Ma Kai at the annual parliamentary session on Sunday.

*The new agency, still named National Oceanic Administration (NOA), will have under its control the coast guard forces of the Public Security Ministry, the fisheries law enforcement command of the Agriculture Ministry, and the maritime anti-smuggling police of the General Administration of Customs. The NOA used to only have one maritime law enforcement department, China Marine Surveillance.*

The move aims at solving the problems of low efficiency in maritime law enforcement, improving protection and use of oceanic resources, and better safeguarding the country's maritime rights and interests, according to the report.

*The proposed administration, under the Ministry of Land and Resources, will carry out law enforcement activities in the name of China maritime police bureau and under the operational direction of the Ministry of Public Security.*

Apart from law enforcement, other functions of the new administration include outlining oceanic development plan, supervising and managing the use of sea waters, and protecting oceanic environment, the report says.

*A high-level consultation and coordinating body, the National Oceanic Commission, will also be set up to formulate oceanic development strategies and coordinate important oceanic affairs*, according to the report.

*The specific work of the commission will be carried out by the new NOA*, the report says.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2013-03/10/c_132221768.htm


----------



## Skyman

Watch the Viets, Pinoys, Japs cry about this. SCS and ECS is our pond.


----------



## Viet

Skyman said:


> Watch the *Viets*, Pinoys, Japs cry about this. SCS and ECS is our pond.


Watch until we self produce en masse submarines and surface warships, and then we both will have more fun.



Russia to Provide Naval Support for Vietnam

MAR 6, 2013
"*Russia agreed on Tuesday to help train the navy and build new ships for Vietnam* as defense ministers of the two Cold War allies held talks in Hanoi, which is seeking to counterbalance China&#8217;s maritime influence in the region, Radio Free Asia reports. Vietnamese Defense Minister General Phung Quang Thanh told reporters after the talks with his Russian counterpart Sergei Shoigu that Hanoi will also continue to buy military equipment from Moscow."

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Zero_wing

Skyman said:


> Watch the Viets, Pinoys, Japs cry about this. SCS and ECS is our pond.



We cry please our new warship and cost guards will gun with high pressure water so please i hope your ready to get wet on your way home

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## siegecrossbow

Major step forward in the modernization of Maritime Patrol.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

Zero_wing said:


> We cry please our new warship and cost guards will gun with high pressure water so please i hope your ready to get wet on your way home


Yeah, you are to receive some modern patrol ships from Japan, right?
Make them wet.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

Skyman said:


> Watch the Viets, Pinoys, Japs cry about this. SCS and ECS is our pond.



Well, sorry kid, instead, we will laugh for that.


> After the merger, all of its vessels would likely be armed, since the new agency is paramilitary in nature instead of a civilian department. The new agency will be named China Maritime Police.


It's easier for us when we point our gun at warships.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Skyman

Viet said:


> Watch until we self produce en masse submarines and surface warships, and then we both will have more fun.
> 
> 
> 
> MAR 6, 2013
> "*Russia agreed on Tuesday to help train the navy and build new ships for Vietnam* as defense ministers of the two Cold War allies held talks in Hanoi, which is seeking to counterbalance China&#8217;s maritime influence in the region, Radio Free Asia reports. Vietnamese Defense Minister General Phung Quang Thanh told reporters after the talks with his Russian counterpart Sergei Shoigu that Hanoi will also continue to buy military equipment from Moscow."



You are only looking at once side of the equation. Go read what we are producing. 
&#8226; 36 new cutters by 2015 for Marine Surveillance.
&#8226; 80+ type 022 missile boats already in service.
&#8226; 30+ type 056 corvettes with strong Anti-Submarine and Anti-Ship capabilities.
&#8226; 20+ type 054A frigates and in the future type 054B frigate.
&#8226; 10+ type 052D destroyers and 6 type 052C destroyers.
&#8226; 10+ type 055 cruisers (12,000 tons with 128 VLS) construction to start this year.
&#8226; 7 type 041 submarine with AIP already constructed (many more to be constructed).
&#8226; 12 type 095 nuclear attack submarine to be constructed (2 already constructed).
&#8226; 3 type 071 LPDs (20,000 tons) in service and more to be constructed (8-10 LPDs eventually).
&#8226; 6 type 075 LHD (40,000 tons) to be constructed.
&#8226; 6 aircraft carriers to be constructed (2 conventional 60,000 tons and 4 nuclear 100,000 tons)

China is the largest shipbuilder, we can produce ships at will because of our massive industrial might and our manufacturing capabilities. We have the vast amounts of money needed, we have the talent pool (engineers and scientists), we have a large workforce, and the political will to make sure the South China Sea and East China Sea is our pond!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Skyman

Viet said:


> Yeah, you are to receive some modern patrol ships from Japan, right?
> Make them wet.



The difference is, Viets and Pinoys have to import your ships whereas we can make our own ships. Even IF you miraculously manage to sink our ships , we can quickly produce more ships. WHEN we sink your limited number of ships, you have no more since you don't have the industrial might like we do.
Not only can we make large ships but we can make them quickly too. That's a game changer.
Even a shrimp like Japan is scared and you think baby shrimps like Viets and Pinoys have ANY chance?
Even when our navy was small and outdated we still humiliated your navy in 1974 and 1988. 
This is a different era kid.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Soryu

Skyman said:


> You are only looking at once side of the equation. Go read what we are producing.
> &#8226; 36 new cutters by 2015 for Marine Surveillance.
> &#8226; 30+ type 056 corvettes with strong Anti-Submarine and Anti-Ship capabilities.
> &#8226; 80+ type 022 missile boats already in service.
> &#8226; 20+ type 054A frigates and in the future type 054B frigate.
> &#8226; 10+ type 052D destroyers and 6 type 052C destroyers.
> &#8226; 10+ type 055 cruisers (12,000 tons with 128 VLS) construction to start this year.
> &#8226; 7 type 041 submarine with AIP already constructed (many more to be constructed).
> 
> China is the largest shipbuilder, we can produce ships at will because of our massive industrial might and our manufacturing capabilities. We have the vast amounts of money needed, we have the talent pool (engineers and scientists), we have a large workforce, and the political will to make sure the South China Sea and East China Sea is our pond!


LOL, So many young people in China just crying about military power, but I wonder how many people was ready gone to battles if the wars were happen.

Type 056 with 4 ASuW missiles and type 360 radar + 6 torpedo is strong Anti-Submarine and Anti-Ship capabilities!?
Type 055 is just fan boy's production, until now.
Type 041 AIP Sub? I heard about this from 2009, but until now, nothing came to real.

China to restructure oceanic administration, enhance maritime law enforcement is point on table, but that will not help China control all SCS and ECS like you dreaming.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Methu_Xie

Vietnamhouzi is shouting


----------



## cirr

Skyman said:


> You are only looking at once side of the equation. Go read what we are producing.
> &#8226; 36 new cutters by 2015 for Marine Surveillance.
> &#8226; 80+ type 022 missile boats already in service.
> &#8226; 30+ type 056 corvettes with strong Anti-Submarine and Anti-Ship capabilities.
> &#8226; 20+ type 054A frigates and in the future type 054B frigate.
> &#8226; 10+ type 052D destroyers and 6 type 052C destroyers.
> &#8226; 10+ type 055 cruisers (12,000 tons with 128 VLS) construction to start this year.
> &#8226; 7 type 041 submarine with AIP already constructed (many more to be constructed).
> &#8226; 12 type 095 nuclear attack submarine to be constructed (2 already constructed).
> &#8226; 3 type 071 LPDs (20,000 tons) in service and more to be constructed (8-10 LPDs eventually).
> &#8226; 6 type 075 LHD (40,000 tons) to be constructed.
> &#8226; 6 aircraft carriers to be constructed (2 conventional 60,000 tons and 4 nuclear 100,000 tons)
> 
> China is the largest shipbuilder, we can produce ships at will because of our massive industrial might and our manufacturing capabilities. We have the vast amounts of money needed, we have the talent pool (engineers and scientists), we have a large workforce, and the political will to make sure the South China Sea and East China Sea is our pond!



A few JH-7Bs with stand-off missiles like the YJ-12 and a couple of 056s are all that it takes to wipe out the tiny Vietnamse navy.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Skyman

Soryu said:


> LOL, So many young people in China just crying about military power, but I wonder how many people was ready gone to battles if the wars were happen.
> 
> Type 056 with 4 ASuW missiles and type 360 radar + 6 torpedo is strong Anti-Submarine and Anti-Ship capabilities!?
> Type 055 is just fan boy's production, until now.
> Type 041 AIP Sub? I heard about this from 2009, but until now, nothing came to real.
> 
> China to restructure oceanic administration, enhance maritime law enforcement is point on table, but that will not help China control all SCS and ECS like you dreaming.



Kid, the type 056 is more capable than anything the little Viet navy have. To make things worse for little Viets is that we are making ATLEAST 30+ Type 056 corvettes possibly much much more. We have quality and quantity! Over 30 of these babies is more than good enough to put the entire Vietnamese navy into the scrap heap of history!
The type 055 cruiser will begin construction this year, the only fan boys are Viets thinking they can take on the PLAN. Dream on kiddo 
Type 041 AIP submarine is already in service with the PLAN, 7 have already finished construction. Not my fault you don't keep up with PLAN developments.

Oh yes it will, under a unified maritime law enforcement agency we can coordinate things in a far more efficient way. All our marine surveillance ships from different agencies will be under one agency.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

Skyman said:


> Kid, the type 056 is more capable than anything the little Viet navy have. To make things worse for little Viets is that we are making ATLEAST 30+ Type 056 corvettes possibly much much more. We have quality and quantity! Over 30 of these babies is more than good enough to put the entire Vietnamese navy into the scrap heap of history!
> The type 055 cruiser will begin construction this year, the only fan boys are Viets thinking they can take on the PLAN. Dream on kiddo
> Type 041 AIP submarine is already in service with the PLAN, 7 have already finished construction. Not my fault you don't keep up with PLAN developments.
> 
> Oh yes it will, under a unified maritime law enforcement agency we can coordinate things in a far more efficient way. All our marine surveillance ships from different agencies will be under one agency.


You shout so loud but not even answer direct to my question, kid.

why type 056 strong with Anti-Submarine and Anti-Ship capabilities with those limit equipment!?
The type 055 cruiser will begin construction this year!? so where's proof about this shjt!?
Type 041 AIP submarine is already in service with the PLAN, , 7 have already finished construction!? 
I never saw proof of Type 041 with AIP (like photo of Sub with number on it for identification). I just read the report said one with hull No. 330 launch in 2004. That end.

You chinese crying all days and nights that how mighty China destroy us, but your Government do shjt for you about that. Keep dreaming, your idiot make nothing to harm for us.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Soryu said:


> You shout so loud but not even answer direct to my question, kid.
> 
> why type 056 strong with Anti-Submarine and Anti-Ship capabilities with those limit equipment!?
> The type 055 cruiser will begin construction this year!? so where's proof about this shjt!?
> Type 041 AIP submarine is already in service with the PLAN, , 7 have already finished construction!?
> I never saw proof of Type 041 with AIP (like photo of Sub with number on it for identification). I just read the report said one with hull No. 330 launch in 2004. That end.
> 
> You chinese crying all days and nights that how mighty China destroy us, but your Government do shjt for you about that. Keep dreaming, your idiot make nothing to harm for us.



The Type 056 corvettes are only the pawns of the PLAN, they are only operated by 60 navy officers and can be easily grouped in huge number.

The 21th century modern warfare is about the weapons, the brave stone age people can never stand a chance against the technologically sophisticated army.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Soryu said:


> You shout so loud but not even answer direct to my question, kid.
> 
> 
> The type 055 cruiser will begin construction this year!? so where's proof about this shjt!?



The same people who leaked the info about Type 052D last year.

The Type 055 is just a 2X enlarged version of Type 052D, same 4X AESA radars, double VLS units, 4X QC-280 gas turbines instead of 2.

Before the Type 052D came out, many people like you also believed it is bullsh!t.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

Skyman said:


> The difference is, Viets and Pinoys have to import your ships whereas we can make our own ships.


Not correct. right now we self produce most of our patrol vessels, and some types of surface warships (Molniya Corvettes). 


Skyman said:


> Even IF you miraculously manage to sink our ships , we can quickly produce more ships. WHEN we sink your limited number of ships, you have no more since you don't have the industrial might like we do.
> Not only can we make large ships but we can make them quickly too. That's a game changer.


Vietnam has a long coast line that is used as a giant aircraft carrier. We have enough cruise missiles to sink 1,000 vessels. No worry. 
Even we are inferior in number of warships. That´s true.


Skyman said:


> Even a shrimp like Japan is scared and you think baby shrimps like Viets and Pinoys have ANY chance?
> Even when our navy was small and outdated we still humiliated your navy in 1974 and 1988.
> This is a different era kid.


We will never forget your 1974 and 1988 agressions like you never forget the Senkakus.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Skyman

Soryu said:


> Who is Toon, false flag troll!?
> 
> Just leave that mental kid alone, bro.
> He crying how powerful China being, but until now, with those bullshjt power, China government can not even contral North Korea, The Chinese government has been opposed by many countries, Chinese scholars spoke like a joke around when others scholars question them about their ridiculous claim.
> 
> If China so powerful like that, Why did she action like a weak women!? Why did China don't wipe out Japan, VN, Filippinos... for you, virgin corner kid!?



We are just building up our capabilities with each passing year so time is on our side. It's better to achieve our objective without firing a shot. It saves alot of resources.
The longer we wait, the stronger we get. Those islands are not going anywhere.


----------



## Zero_wing

All the Nationalist racist chinese here thinks its would be see to go to war and win? go ahead try us can you win against coalition of countries you pi$$ off? remember it took 8 countries to bring china before and Japan alone can sink haft of your people oppressor navy to the bottom of the ocean with the US follow up not even that loan your so proud can save your @$$ and we defeated you guys before and so as the Viets so why do you insist losing again? your fighting a coalition now its not a nice idea to fight a large group of countries? its not good at all but please do your worse if you people love war so much do it then? See what happens.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

Skyman said:


> We are just building up our capabilities with each passing year so time is on our side. It's better to achieve our objective without firing a shot. It saves alot of resources.
> The longer we wait, the stronger we get. Those islands are not going anywhere.



Islands are properties of others, chinese sea pirates can't rob it illegally.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

A little bit long the article but worth reading




Foreign Policy

*China and Vietnam: Danger in the South China Sea*


John D. Ciorciari & Jessica Chen Weiss
January 10, 2013 CHINA US Focus | Perspectives shaping the world's most important bilateral relationship







John D. Ciorciari






Jessica Chen Weiss


*The Sino-Vietnamese dispute in the South China Sea has intensified since 2009*, as thirst for offshore energy reserves increases. China and Vietnam have taken very different approaches to advance their respective claims, and each carries important dangers that must be managed carefully to avoid locking the parties&#8212;and perhaps the surrounding region&#8212;into a path toward conflict. 

The latest round in the dispute began several weeks ago, when Vietnam accused a Chinese fishing boat of &#8220;seriously violating Vietnam&#8217;s sovereignty&#8221; by cutting a seismic cable of a Petro Vietnam vessel exploring the seabed near the Gulf of Tonkin. The incident was a replay of a similar altercation in May 2011, prompting the expansion of Vietnamese maritime patrols and the latest outburst in a series of public protests. The anti-China rallies in Vietnam drew roughly 200 people and dissipated only after Vietnamese authorities detained 22 of the protesters. China maintains that the sovereignty of the South China Sea is &#8220;undisputed&#8221; and opposes any unilateral energy exploration efforts by rival claimants. China has focused on deterring other states from exploration or other activities that would help establish footholds and solidify rival claims. 

*China *has typically conducted patrols with nonmilitary vessels belonging to civilian agencies, including maritime affairs and fisheries. Yet in perhaps an early indication that Xi Jinping does not intend to take a gentler approach than his predecessor, on January 1 new rules took effect authorizing the Hainan police to board and search boats in at least some disputed waters, most likely around the Paracel Islands. China is also boosting its naval power, most recently by contracting for four Russian attack submarines and transferring two destroyers and nine other naval vessels to its maritime surveillance fleet.

China has also pursued a wedge strategy, trying to prevent its smaller rivals from ganging up on Beijing in multilateral talks or seeking protection from extra-regional powers. For example, the state-affiliated Chinese paper Global Times warned in July 2012 that Vietnam would &#8220;feel pain&#8221; if it facilitated the U.S. return to the region, asserting that the United States would use its position to force political change in Hanoi. 








In December, the state-owned China Daily published an opinion piece arguing that throughout 2012, &#8220;some Southeast Asian countries attempted to put bilateral disputes under multilateral frameworks,&#8221; and the United States and Japan &#8220;took the opportunity to add fuel to the fire, trying to stir up the troubled waters.&#8221; Domestically, China has framed the South China Sea issue as part of a larger struggle against a tightening ring of U.S.-led containment&#8212;a narrative that taps into popular nationalism but also reflects genuine strategic concerns.

Although Vietnam has also tried to strengthen its navy, its inability to match China&#8217;s might has led it to seek foreign support. Vietnam has worked with the Philippines and other states to &#8220;multilateralize&#8221; the issue in regional forums including ASEAN, APEC, and the East Asia Summit. Although some ASEAN officials have criticized Vietnam for provoking China, most interested parties have joined in Vietnam&#8217;s call for a multilateral resolution, forcing China to play diplomatic defense.

*Vietnam *has had success &#8220;internationalizing&#8221; the dispute as well, taking advantage of the convergent interests of the United States and other major powers to enlist their help. U.S. Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta&#8217;s visit to Cam Ranh Bay, naval visits to three Vietnamese ports, and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton&#8217;s push for a multilateral code of conduct&#8212;all reinforced the U.S. tilt toward Vietnam in 2012. After the latest cable-cutting incident in December, an Indian admiral also announced that India is undertaking exercises to protect its interests in the South China Sea, including an agreement with Petro Vietnam enabling India&#8217;s state oil and gas firm to explore disputed areas off Vietnam&#8217;s southern coast.

Internally, Vietnam has allowed numerous anti-China protests to occur since June 2011&#8212;a marked contrast to its swift repression of similar protests in 2007. The communist leadership remains wary of political protests but has been loath to crack down on anti-China demonstrations for fear of appearing &#8220;anti-nationalistic.&#8221; Moreover, many of the protesters&#8217; placards feature English language slogans about international law, making them resonant with Vietnam&#8217;s diplomatic effort to broadcast grievances and seek foreign support. 

*Both states&#8217; strategies are risky*. China&#8217;s assertiveness may harden alliances, accelerate defense spending around the region, and reduce space for future compromises. Clumsy diplomatic moves&#8212;such as printing passports with the disputed territories on a map of China and pressuring Cambodia to do its bidding in recent ASEAN discussions on the South China Sea&#8212;only add to the backlash. As the contest intensifies, nationalist voices gain leverage in Beijing and limit China&#8217;s ability to back down. 

Vietnam&#8217;s toleration of anti-China protesters&#8212;many of whom have criticized the government for selling out to China&#8212;may have a similar effect. Moreover, Hanoi&#8217;s balancing tactics irritate Beijing, fuel Chinese nationalism, and add to the PRC&#8217;s sense of encirclement. China has ample military and economic means to punish Hanoi, and it is unclear that Vietnam&#8217;s friends will stand by its side if push comes to shove. 

*Escalation is not in either state&#8217;s interest.* Vietnam would risk a humiliating defeat, and China would only contribute to the containment regime it fears by waging war. The real danger lies in domestic politics that could compel both states to escalate when further incidents occur at sea. The more China and Vietnam indulge nationalism to boost their domestic appeal, draw attention, or signal resolve, the less room will remain for compromise.

The* United States* also has a pivotal role, not by confronting China directly&#8212;which would prompt Chinese countermeasures and encourage reckless behavior by Vietnam&#8212;but in supporting freedom of navigation and peaceful dispute resolution. Agreement on sovereignty is highly unlikely in the near future, but incremental progress is possible. 

The goal of diplomacy now should be to create space for China, Vietnam, and other claimants to make progress toward a code of conduct and joint development of energy resources. Although these measures will not solve the South China Sea disputes, they will help make the problem more tractable, steering away from the territorial issues that inflame the greatest nationalist passions.



*John D. Ciorciari* is an assistant professor at the Gerald R. Ford School of Public Policy, University of Michigan, and author of The Limits of Alignment: Southeast Asia and the Great Powers since 1975 (Georgetown University Press, 2010).

*Jessica Chen Weiss* is an assistant professor in the Department of Political Science at Yale University and author of Powerful Patriots: Nationalist Protest in China&#8217;s Foreign Relations (book manuscript under review).

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## HongWu

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The 21th century modern warfare is about the weapons, the brave stone age people can never stand a chance against the technologically sophisticated army.


I would not call them "brave" -- we saw them go down without a fight in 1988!

China drives out Vietnam fishing vessels from South China sea | Firstpost

Chinese maritime surveillance vessels, which were aggressively patrolling the disputed waters in the South China Sea, today drove out two Vietnam- registered fishing ships, state media reported.

The Vietnamese vessels were spotted this morning in the South China Sea near the Xisha Islands, which Hanoi calls as Paracel islands.

They were suspected of illegal fishing within Chinas territorial waters, state news agency Xinhua said, adding that they were driven out of the waters by two China Marine Surveillance ships.

China has stepped up patrols in the South China Sea last year and for the first time deployed a helicopter on board the ship.

The fleet is conducting regular patrols of the Xisha Islands, which are now administered by Sansha City, which was set up in July last year, the report said.

State-run CCTV reported Marine Surveillance detachment on a nine day patrol finished patrol of the Yongle Archipelago of the Xisha Islands this morning. Law enforcement personnel landed on nine islands of the Yongle Archipelago and a helicopter took aerial photos.

An official with the detachment said they will build files for the islands.

The Islands, along with the Zhongsha and Nansha Islands, are administered by Chinas Sansha City.

This is Chinas first such patrol around the Xishas since Sansha City was set up in July last year, the CCTV reported.

China has been asserting it territorial claims over South China Sea since last year countering the claims of Philippines, Vietnam, Brunei and Malaysia over a host of islands resulting in the tensions Beijing and these countries.

While stepping up patrols in the South China Sea China asserts that there is no threat to international shipping in the region.

Besides tensions in the South China Sea, China also experiencing heightened tensions with Japan over the disputes islands in the East China Sea.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Rechoice

*Obama, Sultan of Brunei Discuss Asian Maritime Tensions*







Kent Klein
March 12, 2013



WHITE HOUSE &#8212; President Barack Obama met with the visiting Sultan of Brunei Tuesday to discuss mediation of maritime disputes between several Asian countries.

Obama praised the Sultan as &#8220;a key leader in the Southeast Asian region&#8221; and thanked him for trying to ease tensions between China and Japan and the Philippines over ownership of islands in the South China and East China Seas. China has recently increased patrols near those islands.

Obama said Asian countries involved in the maritime disputes should abide rule of law and international standards to ease tensions in the region.

&#8220;His Majesty has shown great leadership in trying to bring the countries together, to make sure that everybody is abiding by basic precepts of rule of law and international standards, so that conflicts can be resolved peacefully and effectively, and that everybody is bought in to that kind of structure," Obama said.

The U.S. Director of National Intelligence James Clapper told lawmakers Tuesday that China&#8217;s tougher attitude in the maritime disputes is partly a response to the U.S. strategic &#8220;pivot&#8221; toward the Asia-Pacific region.

Addressing a U.S. Senate committee about his annual assessment of worldwide threats, Clapper said China&#8217;s new leaders are facing internal challenges that could grow into domestic unrest, so they are likely to maintain an uncompromising stance on foreign policy.

Clapper also said new leaders in Beijing, due to take office this week, see the increased U.S. attention to the Asia-Pacific as an attempt to undermine China&#8217;s position in the region.

U.S. National Security Adviser Tom Donilon Monday denied any such intention of Washington&#8217;s policy shift.

The Asia-Pacific maritime disputes are likely to be discussed at the East Asia Summit and the U.S.-ASEAN Summit, both of which Brunei will host in October.

President Obama is expected to attend the U.S.-ASEAN gathering, which he said will deal with a wide range of issues, including trade and the world economy.

Obama pointed out that he is the ninth U.S. president to hold office during the Sultan&#8217;s 45-year reign. He also said the Sultan&#8217;s interest in aircraft makes him perhaps the only head of state to pilot his own Boeing 747 airliner to Washington.
Print
Comment (1)
Share:

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Soryu

HongWu said:


> I would not call them "brave" -- we saw them go down without a fight in 1988!
> 
> China drives out Vietnam fishing vessels from South China sea | Firstpost


So you don't have a brain that you think PLA did not take control all Islands when VN "go down without a fight in 1988"  ( I'm sure it's same shjt about 1979 in your head... LOL )

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Rechoice

*Families of Vietnamese martyrs to visit Truong Sa for memorial *

Vietnamese naval forces will organize a trip to the Truong Sa (Spratly) Archipelago for the families of three soldiers who were killed during a Chinese attack on its reef in 1988.
The trip was proposed the Ho Chi Minh City-based Bien Dao Doan Tau Khong So Company after *the family of soldier Doan Dac Hoach told Thanh Nien in an interview in May that they wanted to visit the place where their son died.*

They plan to place flowers in the sea and burn incense to honor their son and his comrades.

The families of Hoach and the two other soldiers &#8211; Nguyen Thanh Hai and Bui Ba Kien -- will attend the trip, but more details have yet to be released.

*The three soldiers died with 61 others on March 14, 1988 when Chinese soldiers launched a military assault against Gac Ma (Johnson South Reef or Chigua Reef), Len Dao (Lansdowne Reef) and Co Lin (Johnson North/Collins Reef) in a flagrant effort to seize the Spratly Islands and gain control over the entire East Sea.*

Thanks to their brave resistance, Vietnam maintained its sovereignty over Len Dao and Co Lin, while China began its occupation of Gac Ma.

Thanh Nien newspaper, which has organized several meetings with the families of the martyrs nationwide to commemorate their sacrifice, is calling on contributions from local philanthropists to help the families of other slain soldiers have the same opportunity.

Earlier on July 2, Thanh Nien organized a ceremony to commemorate the sacrifice of two martyrs who died while protecting the DK1 oil platform from a typhoon in January of 1991.

At the ceremony held in the central province of Quang Binh, the newspaper, in collaboration with the Asia Foods Corporation, gave VND20 million (US$945) to each of the families of martyrs Pham Tao and Ho Cong Hien.

Tao and Hien were among nine naval sailors who died as the result of typhoons since the oil platform was built in July 1989 as a base designed to both provide support to fishermen and play a role in national defense.

Thanh Nien has recently also organized ceremonies for other soldiers throughout Vietnam, pledging money to their families.







Memoring for Vietnamese martyrs killed by Chinese aggressor in Gac Ma 25 year ago.
Photo link.
http://tinngan.vn/Truong-Sa-va-ky-uc-ve-tran-chien-25-nam-truoc_1-16-386858.html

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Viet

Chinese teaching books for kids with &#8220;U-shaped line&#8221; confiscated


Last update 14/03/2013 (GMT+7) 0 0 12345
Vietnam Net





_Nhan Van bookstore looks like a library_


VietNamNet Bridge -*At least 2,000 books teaching Chinese language for children *that are published and released in Vietnam were detected to include Chinese maps with the "U-shaped line."

On March 12, the authorities of District 10, HCM City, inspected the Nhan Van Bookstore, No. 875 Cach Mang Thang Tam Street, District 10, and discovered a Chinese book for children having a Chinese map with the "U-shaped line," which seriously violates *Vietnam&#8217;s sovereignty*.

The *Nhan Van Bookstore *showed a number of documents, including the decision of the HCM City General Publishing House signed on July 25, 2011, on the re-printing of the book, with 2,000 copies. The publishing partners of the book are the Education JSC and the Intelligent World Technology Company.

The bookstore also provided the copyright authorizing contract of the book between the A Dong Communications Co., Ltd., based in District 11 and the Nhan Van Culture Co., Ltd. in Tan Binh District.

*The inspectors confiscated 132 books. The case will be reported to the HCM City authorities.*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

Vietnam wants stronger ASEAN-Japan defence ties


13/03/2013 | 21:26:00
Vietnam Net

[




_Japanese Vice Defence Minister Akinori Eto delivers speech at ASEAN&#8211;Japan defence cooperation conference in Tokyo. &#8212;Photo vov.vn_






_VN´s Deputy Defence Minister Nguyen Chi Vinh_


Deputy Defence Minister Nguyen Chi Vinh has expressed his hope that *ASEAN member nations and Japan* will enhance links to ensure maritime security and comply with international law. 

At the fourth deputy-ministerial level ASEAN&#8211;Japan defence cooperation conference in *Tokyo *on March 13, Vinh said countries should adopt a proper awareness of regional security, especially the interpretation and application of the 1982 U*nited Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS)*, and standardise behaviour to international law in an open and transparent manner to ensure maritime security and safety as well as peace in the region. 

*Major General Vu Tien Trong*, Head of the Institute for Defence International Relations, said the event focuses its discussion on the emerging risks of maritime disputes, which require settlement via cooperation based on international law and the 1982 UNCLOS. 

Participants at the event hailed Vietnam &#8217;s role and contributions to regional defence and security cooperation over the past time. 





_Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe poses with senior defence officials from ASEAN countries for a photo at the prime minister's official residence in Tokyo on March 12, 2013.&#8212; Photo AFP/VNA_


*Japan *pledges to work actively and responsibly within the framework of cooperation mechanisms like the ASEAN Regional Forum and the ASEAN Defence Ministers&#8217; Meeting-Plus, Abe said.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Viet

Protest in Vietnam on anniversary of China clash


March 14, 2013 04:57 AM EST | 
huffingtonpost





_A man shouts anti-China slogans during a protest in Hanoi on June 5, 2011._





_Protesters chant anti-China slogans while standing at a war martyrs monument during an anti-China protest in Hanoi on July 2012. Photo: REUTERS_





_Anti-China protesters shout anti-China slogans as they attend a flower-laying ceremony to mark the 25th anniversary of the 1988 naval battle between China and Vietnam near Spratly reefs, at a public park in Hanoi, on Thursday, March 14, 2013.-- PHOTO: REUTERS_


HANOI, Vietnam &#8212; *Vietnamese activists shouting anti-China slogans have marked the 25th anniversary of a bloody naval battle with China* with a rare public protest.

State media covered the anniversary, but didn't report on the small protest, held Thursday at a statue of a nationalist leader in Hanoi. Vietnam's one-party government is vulnerable to charges that it is not tough enough on China and doesn't usually allow open protests.

Around 20 people staged the brief demonstration, shouting slogans against Beijing.

The clashes in 1988 in the* Spratly Islands *in the South China Sea killed 64 Vietnamese troops. No Chinese were killed.

China's current assertiveness in pushing its territorial ambitions in the South China Sea is raising regional tensions. The Philippines, Brunei, Malaysia Taiwan and Vietnam all have claims in the waters.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Viet

A small group of 20 protesters voiced their anger against China, and this small group was large enough to draw international intention.
Many world media reported about the demonstration in Hanoi.

Rest in peace for our fallen soldiers

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## cirr

Part 1&#65306;
http://player.youku.com/player.php/sid/XNDc3Mjk0NDUy/v.swf

Part 2&#65306;
http://you.video.sina.com.cn/api/si...JA1cQ0/XM5GQYtoD5S7SAtkEqDhATZg4cfsh0x8/s.swf


----------



## Soryu

your video so hard to load, so I give up to view that shjt...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## eddieInUK

Nationalism is on the way.


----------



## Skyman

Those are our islands and we just kicked out your ships. That's the only thing that matters. Protest all you want.


----------



## HongWu

They dropped into the water like rocks and didn't even get a chance to fire back. Just blown away like dummy targets.


----------



## Zero_wing

HongWu said:


> They dropped into the water like rocks and didn't even get a chance to fire back. Just blown away like dummy targets.



Really so you just admit to be there please tell us more on how you kill people?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

HongWu said:


> They dropped into the water like rocks and didn't even get a chance to fire back. Just blown away like dummy targets.


Did you know how many enemies we were kill to gain our independent, even you Chinese!?
And did you know how many dead body appeared when Japan occupied China!? I think you young buffalo crying like mad that Chinese fate in that time even worse than anyone in this world !? 
But you like dead, huh. so let greeting those and laugh when time come up in years.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

HongWu said:


> They dropped into the water like rocks and didn't even get a chance to fire back. Just blown away like dummy targets.


no worry, we are waiting for a chance to pay back. Give us some time.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## armchairPrivate

In the picture there is 1988 on the guy's shirt. In a few years, there will be another number like 2017 added to the shirt. In a few more years, another number. The odds are lending towards the Chinese favourably as the years pass.

In Chuang Tse (Zhuangzi) Inner Chapters (which was written over 2000 years ago) told a story about selling hats to the Viet people. So China and Viet go back a long way, whether Viet was under the Chinese rule or was it an independent state.

Looks like the struggles will go on.


----------



## terranMarine

Viet said:


> no worry, we are waiting for a chance to pay back. Give us some time.



You want to pay back? Vietnam better be ready to be ruled by China again if Vietnam have the guts to pay us back.


----------



## gpit

Viet said:


> no worry, we are waiting for a chance to pay back. Give us some time.



When the time comes you become a part of China again, as the history shows again and again.

Waiting for it, us too&#8230;



armchairPrivate said:


> In the picture there is 1988 on the guy's shirt. In a few years, there will be another number like 2017 added to the shirt. In a few more years, another number. The odds are lending towards the Chinese favourably as the years pass.
> 
> In Chuang Tse (Zhuangzi) Inner Chapters (which was written over 2000 years ago) told a story about selling hats to the Viet people. So China and Viet go back a long way, whether Viet was under the Chinese rule or was it an independent state.
> 
> Looks like the struggles will go on.




I think the Chinese already concluded that they don&#8217;t want to rule the ingrates unless the they force the Chinese to do so. History already shows that&#8230; Oops the ingrates don&#8217;t have a thing called history in their own language.


----------



## armchairPrivate

What you said might be true.

Viet used to be called Annam (peacful south) by the Chinese. A popular spot for the Chinese to vacation in.

Viet and China will always have a VERY close tie, but Viet have at time shown to be cantankerous.


----------



## Rechoice

Protest in Vietnam on anniversary of China sea pirates attacked on Vietnam's Island Gac Ma.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## hurt

Rechoice said:


> Protest in Vietnam on anniversary of China sea pirates attacked on Vietnam's Island Gac Ma.



There are some people so happy in your pic

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

hurt said:


> There are some people so happy in your pic



They are happy, becourse Police no disturb and they can do what they like.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## hurt

Rechoice said:


> They are happy, becourse Police no disturb and they can do what they like.








But i think they join a festival 

Let us happy together


----------



## Rechoice

Dirty chinese aggressors go hell.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

terranMarine said:


> You want to pay back? Vietnam better be ready to be ruled by China again if Vietnam have the guts to pay us back.


some Chinese said that wherever has Chinese's bones, that should be lands of China. Very very many Chinese's bones in VietNam, Do you want to know how many and why those bones were in there!?


gpit said:


> When the time comes you become a part of China again, as the history shows again and again.
> 
> Waiting for it, us too&#8230;
> 
> I think the Chinese already concluded that they don&#8217;t want to rule the ingrates unless the they force the Chinese to do so. History already shows that&#8230; Oops the ingrates don&#8217;t have a thing called history in their own language.


You show your color as America but yet spout out scrap about China-Vietnam relationship. History already shows that people like you were nothing but bugs, and true ingrates.


hurt said:


> But i think they join a festival
> 
> Let us happy together


Yet, they happy, because they protest China in peace atmostphere about China illegal and evil action. 
And nobody crazy like Chinese when they made the riots to protest Japan...( kill other just because he drove a Toyota car, robbery the stores and many stupid actions, and finally, was beat by police like crazy ***)

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## hurt

Soryu said:


> some Chinese said that wherever has Chinese's bones, that should be lands of China. Very very many Chinese's bones in VietNam, Do you want to know how many and why those bones were in there!?
> 
> You show your color as America but yet spout out scrap about China-Vietnam relationship. History already shows that people like you were nothing but bugs, and true ingrates.
> 
> Yet, they happy, because they protest China in peace atmostphere about China illegal and evil action.
> And nobody crazy like Chinese when they made the riots to protest Japan...( kill other just because he drove a Toyota car, robbery the stores and many stupid actions, and finally, was beat by police like crazy ***)



HAPPY!HAPPY!!


----------



## faithfulguy

Viet said:


> Vietnam wants stronger ASEAN-Japan defence ties
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe poses with senior defence officials from ASEAN countries for a photo at the prime minister's official residence in Tokyo on March 12, 2013.&#8212; Photo AFP/VNA_
> 
> 
> *Japan *pledges to work actively and responsibly within the framework of cooperation mechanisms like the ASEAN Regional Forum and the ASEAN Defence Ministers&#8217; Meeting-Plus, Abe said.



The photo above remind me of the photo of another Japanese Prime Minister


----------



## Soryu

hurt said:


> HAPPY!HAPPY!!


Happy when compared with young buffalo from Chinese was beat and jail by police because criminal actions. 



faithfulguy said:


> This photo remind me of this photo of another Japanese Prime Minister
> 
> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/38/Greater_East_Asia_Conference.JPG


So you want return the time in past, right!? Look like you love that.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## faithfulguy

Soryu said:


> So you happy for chinese in 1939-1945 time, great. I understand. I feel sorry for your parent.



Who rule Vietnam between 1939 and 1945? Is it Vichy France and then Japan. I wonder why would Japan invade French Indochina in 1941 when Vichy France was already pro Axis. BTW, how long was Vietnam part of French colony. Also, parle vou France?


----------



## Soryu

faithfulguy said:


> Who rule Vietnam between 1939 and 1945? Is it Vichy France and then Japan. I wonder why would Japan invade French Indochina in 1941 when Vichy France was already pro Axis. BTW, how long was Vietnam part of French colony. Also, parle vou France?


I don't understand what u mean, you read books and you will know history and not be stupid like that guy.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Sasquatch

Please remain civil as otherwise it could result in infractions and a possible ban.


----------



## Soryu

Hu Songshan said:


> Please remain civil as otherwise it could result in infractions and a possible ban.


All ok and understanding if some chinese stop their troll. Sorry for trouble you 

@chinapakistan: read this, if you don't understand what he mean, go to hell:


hurt said:


> But i think they join a festival
> 
> Let us happy together


Eastsea and I never said anything like we happy about terrible event in China past, but when you try to make fun by bring on Vietnam wounds, I will remind you somethings. That all.


_*South China Sea News & Discussions*_ - No troll, please.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## chinapakistan

Soryu said:


> @chinapakistan: read this, if you don't understand what he mean, go to hell:



I said CSC war and WW2 are different.

1. No one knows CSC war is whose fault, who shot first. If you believe that was china, why can not chinese believe that was you? People celebrate in 15, Aug for winning WW2, any fault? There is nothing wrong for a chinese to celebrate a victory of CSC War.

2. The dead men are soldiers, not common people.

Let us see what/who did your country man make fun on? It is WW2 and they are the raped women and innocent victims of massacre.

If you can not understand what I said, I do not need you to go to hell, just do not talk to me, you are the same level with that anti humanlity vietnam guy.



Soryu said:


> Eastsea and I never said anything like we happy about terrible event in China past, but when you try to make fun by bring on Vietnam wounds, I will remind you somethings. That all.
> 
> 
> _*South China Sea News & Discussions*_ - No troll, please.



Do not be ridiculous, your countryman made fun on raped chinese women and innocent chinese common victims of massacre, and you just thanked that.


----------



## Viet

faithfulguy said:


> Who rule Vietnam between 1939 and 1945? Is it Vichy France and then Japan. *I wonder why would Japan invade French Indochina* in 1941 when Vichy France was already pro Axis. BTW, how long was Vietnam part of French colony. Also, parle vou France?


The reason why Japan wanted Vietnam and Indochina respectively was similar to why China invaded Vietnam again and again: *people, land and resources*. Particularly VN was ruled by the French and Japanese between 1939 and 1945. France controlled Vietnam nearly 100 years.

Besides France, China and Japan, Vietnam has seen many invaders coming and going in the long history: Champa, Siams. Mongols, British, Loatens...not to forget their allies including from Australia, New Zealand, Philippines, Korea, India, Pakistan, etc...just to name a few.

Vietnam is a member of La Francophonie, a club of French speaking countries.

Oh...I forgot the US presence. The Americians belonged to one of the worst groups of invaders. No doubt.


----------



## Soryu

1. You are stupid crap.
or
2. You are troll crap.


chinapakistan said:


> I said CSC war and WW2 are different.
> 
> 1. No one knows CSC war is whose fault, who shot first. If you believe that was china, why can not chinese believe that was you? People celebrate in 15, Aug for winning WW2, any fault? There is nothing wrong for a chinese to celebrate a victory of CSC War.
> 
> 2. The dead men are soldiers, not common people.
> 
> Let us see what/who did your country man make fun on? It is WW2 and they are the raped women and innocent victims of massacre.
> 
> If you can not understand what I said, I do not need you to go to hell, just do not talk to me, you are the same level with that anti humanlity vietnam guy.
> 
> 
> 
> Do not be ridiculous, your countryman made fun on raped chinese women and innocent chinese common victims of massacre, and you just thanked that.


Did Japan invade China by military force and kill Chinese!? - yes!
Did China invade Vietnam by military force and kill Vietnamese in 1974, 1979, 1988!? - yes!

_Your shjt First shot is no matter what in any case that China invade and occupied Islands by military force, now they claim those Island with argument they discoveried and know them in long time, some other idiot used Terra nullius for the claim.

A question I asked Chinese sometime: Why did they stop campaign when they win so easy like you believed in naval battle!?

It's because VN occupied Island after 1975 from Republic of Vietnam collapsed, and station in there. When China attacked, VN's force was thin because VN has to send troop to Cambodia in a long time, and just station in some Islands, rest part was empty. China invade was stop because we have tight defend in those Islands. So who is invader!?

Who was support khmer-rough for them attack Vietnam, and kill Vietnamese people innocent!? - China PRC!
Who attack Vietnam in 1979 to help khmer-rough escape their defeat!? - China PRC!

_You spoke same shjt from hurt_: _*I asked you again*_: *Can you quote any words I and Eastsea said we happy about terrible event in China Past!?*
And nothing about raped chinese women and innocent chinese common victims of massacre!

Your holy crap brother said we have happy face look liked in festival when hold a ceremony for our soldier sacrifice themselve for nation.
He troll with a picture show some VNese smile when they protest China actions in 2012, they smile because they chanting patriotic slogans and songs.

I asked him that if he happy with wars and dead body, so he happy 1939-1945 time!? He answer he happy, and he don't happy for VN. I repeat his words, he run away because nothing more he can troll...

If you don't understand, go hell with him and eat anything he give you. He can not troll us, but a Chinese member rush in the trap,... crap...

P/S: take the tour this forum, sure you will see chinese shjt men bring on VNese women with insult words.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## chinapakistan

Soryu said:


> 1. You are stupid crap.
> or
> 2. You are troll crap.
> 
> Did Japan invade China by military force and kill Chinese!? - yes!
> Did China invade Vietnam by military force and kill Vietnamese in 1974, 1979, 1988!? - yes!
> 
> _Your shjt First shot is no matter what in any case that China invade and occupied Islands by military force, now they claim those Island with argument they discoveried and know them in long time, some other idiot used Terra nullius for the claim.
> 
> A question I asked Chinese sometime: Why did they stop campaign when they win so easy like you believed in naval battle!?
> 
> It's because VN occupied Island after 1975 from Republic of Vietnam collapsed, and station in there. When China attacked, VN's force was thin because VN has to send troop to Cambodia in a long time, and just station in some Islands, rest part was empty. China invade was stop because we have tight defend in those Islands. So who is invader!?
> 
> Who was support khmer-rough for them attack Vietnam, and kill Vietnamese people innocent!? - China PRC!
> Who attack Vietnam in 1979 to help khmer-rough escape their defeat!? - China PRC!
> 
> _You spoke same shjt from hurt_: _*I asked you again*_: *Can you quote any words I and Eastsea said we happy about terrible event in China Past!?*
> And nothing about raped chinese women and innocent chinese common victims of massacre!
> 
> Your holy crap brother said we have happy face look liked in festival when hold a ceremony for our soldier sacrifice themselve for nation.
> He troll with a picture show some VNese smile when they protest China actions in 2012, they smile because they chanting patriotic slogans and songs.
> 
> If you don't understand, go hell with him and eat anything he give you. He can not troll us, but a Chinese member rush in the trap,... crap...
> 
> P/S: take the tour this forum, sure you will see chinese shjt men bring on VNese women with insult words. you holy stupid crap.



*You are ridiculous, you know what you nuts guys said is deleted by the Mods so I can not quote how you crazy guys made fun on raped women and innocent victims in WW2*. And I said many times the whole world share the same sense on WW2 which is Japan and German did bad, but CSC war is different. No common sense on it, why must what said by Vietnamese be truth! What is wrong of a Chinese to celebrate a victory of a war against her enemy? 

But you and your nuts countrymen made fun on raped women and innocent victims of WW2 are totally different, you guys are crazy anti humanity nuts. Did your teacher teach you guys to make fun on raped women and innocent victims?

I do not speak to anti humanity nuts as I said, you are one of them and you are worse than them, you even denied the truth, just stop talking to me.


----------



## Soryu

chinapakistan said:


> *You are ridiculous, you know what you nuts guys said is deleted by the Mods so I can not quote how you crazy guys made fun on raped women and innocent victims in WW2*. And I said many times the whole world share the same sense on WW2 which is Japan and German did bad, but CSC war is different. No common sense on it, why must what said by Vietnamese is truth! What is wrong about a Chinese celebrate on a victory?
> 
> But you and your nuts countrymen made fun on raped women and innocent victims of WW2 are totally different, you guys are crazy anti humanity nuts. Did your teacher teach you guys to make fun on raped women and innocent victims?
> 
> I do not speak to anti humanity nuts as I said, you are one of them and you are worse than them, you even denied the truth, just stop talking to me.


_Hey, I asking you a last question, crap_: 

*Are you happy like you were in a festival when you hold a ceremony for your soldier sacrifice themselve for nation.*

I sure you will answer:


chinapakistan said:


> *Yes, I very happy*


Good crap. and good bye

P/S:I just asked you before Mod appeared, you do your crap.

Kid, I asked you twice, not one, crying like mad not help you know what happend. If you want, go ask Mod ban me and Eastsea who you think was insult and make fun whatever you think we does.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## chinapakistan

Soryu said:


> _Hey, I asking you a last question, crap_:
> 
> *Are you happy like you were in a festival when you hold a ceremony for your soldier sacrifice themselve for nation.*
> 
> I sure you will answer:
> 
> Good crap. and good bye
> 
> P/S:I just asked you before Mod appeared, you do your crap.



I can not believe how ridiculous can a guy be! *You even just made up a fake quota, nuts! You are crazy, you need medicine. Even a blind know your question is after Mods deleted the posts. Can you be more shameless? 
*
And about your stupid question, My answer is I would not be happy,* I think you guys should not in case of 1988 war. So what? Can this be the reason for you guys to act like nuts to make fun on raped women and innocent victims in WW2? *
What are you talking about, it is just like when people celebrate the victory of WW2, then Japan jump out to say "hi you guys , you should be happy that many innocent people were killed and women were raped in WW2". Japanese do not do that or do not dare to do, *But the same words came out from you countryman's dirty hole and you nuts thanked that.*


----------



## EastSea

chinapakistan said:


> I can not believe how ridiculous can a guy be! *You even just made up a fake quota, nuts! You are crazy, you need medicine. Even a blind know your question is after Mods deleted the posts. Can you be more shameless?
> *
> And about your stupid question, My answer is I would not be happy,* I think you guys should not in case of 1988 war. So what? Can this be the reason for you guys to act like nuts to make fun on raped women and innocent victims in WW2? *
> What are you talking about, it is just like when people celebrate the victory of WW2, then Japan jump out to say "hi you guys , you should be happy that many innocent people were killed and women were raped in WW2". Japanese do not do that or do not dare to do, *But the same words came out from you countryman's dirty hole and you nuts thanked that.*



1979 China attacked Vietnam on north border. 1988 China attacked Vietnam on sea, robbed Gac Ma of Vietnam. Many Vietnamese were killed by Chinese PLA. China is aggressor, criminal same as Japanese in WW II in China.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Soryu

EastSea said:


> 1979 China attacked Vietnam on north border. 1988 China attacked Vietnam on sea, robbed Gac Ma of Vietnam. Many Vietnamese were killed by Chinese PLA. China is aggressor, criminal same as Japanese in WW II in China.


just leave him alone bro.
I think we shouldn't touch this guy. He is one of young buffalo in our term (tr&#7867; trâu) or is angry women type. Both case should were not touch, waste time or trouble in discusses. 

His buddy admit he like to count body dead and happy festival face when they hold a ceremony for respect their elders, so we feel sorry for him (hurt), but this stupid guy crying like mad how insult we do to victims of wars. 

What was international community common sense about khmer-rough!?
Who was back and support khmer-rough kill millions (1/4) Cambodia people and thousands Vietnamese in border!? 

Is he stupid or troll!? Who know hell...all like crap.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## faithfulguy

Viet said:


> The reason why Japan wanted Vietnam and Indochina respectively was similar to why China invaded Vietnam again and again: *people, land and resources*. Particularly VN was ruled by the French and Japanese between 1939 and 1945. France controlled Vietnam nearly 100 years.
> 
> Besides France, China and Japan, Vietnam has seen many invaders coming and going in the long history: Champa, Siams. Mongols, British, Loatens...not to forget their allies including from Australia, New Zealand, Philippines, Korea, India, Pakistan, etc...just to name a few.
> 
> Vietnam is a member of La Francophonie, a club of French speaking countries.
> 
> Oh...I forgot the US presence. The Americians belonged to one of the worst groups of invaders. No doubt.



1 correction, Champa was invaded by Vietnam, not the other way around. Today's south Vietnam is not Vietnamese land, but Champa land. Before you point fingers, first give the Champa land back to the people of Champa.


----------



## EastSea

faithfulguy said:


> 1 correction, Champa was invaded by Vietnam, not the other way around. Today's south Vietnam is not Vietnamese land, but Champa land. Before you point fingers, first give the Champa land back to the people of Champa.



The was Champa's failure. They liked to annexed Vietnam to them to unitify the country. In our history, Champa invaded continually in to Vietnam. Three time Champa occupied Hanoi. At the end, Champa paid his price, we Vietnamese unified the country.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## faithfulguy

EastSea said:


> The was Champa's failure. They liked to annexed Vietnam to them to unitify the country. In our history, Champa invaded continually in to Vietnam. Three time Champa occupied Hanoi. At the end, Champa paid his price, we Vietnamese unified the country.



This is an attitude of an invader. The southern part of Vietnam belongs to Champa that Vietnam illegally occupied. So its not a unification of Vietnam, but an invasion, annexation and destruction of Champa by Vietnam. The next Vietnamese target is Cambodia and Laos. Any reasonable nation would ensure that Vietnam does not achieve its imperialistic scheme.


----------



## Rechoice

EastSea said:


> The was Champa's failure. They liked to annexed Vietnam to them to unitify the country. In our history, Champa invaded continually in to Vietnam. Three time Champa occupied Hanoi. At the end, Champa paid his price, we Vietnamese unified the country.



In the past, Champa (Viet Thuong) and Lac Viet, Au Viet formed the country with the name in Chinese An Nam Guo &#23433;&#21335;&#22269;.

Here is old map printed in China, the name "&#23433;&#21335;&#22269;'" is stating in the middle map to country's related.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## EastSea

faithfulguy said:


> This is an attitude of an invader. The southern part of Vietnam belongs to Champa that Vietnam illegally occupied. So its not a unification of Vietnam, but an invasion, annexation and destruction of Champa by Vietnam. The next Vietnamese target is Cambodia and Laos. Any reasonable nation would ensure that Vietnam does not achieve its imperialistic scheme.



Base on your logic, China illegally occupied Taiwan, Tibet, Xin Gang, Woyue, Dongyue, NanYue, Yangyue, Minyue, Inner Mongolia, Manchuria.... 
You can declare Independence of Republic Formosa now.
In reality, Taiwan was independent state from ancient time until 1700 years.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Viet

faithfulguy said:


> This is an attitude of an invader. The southern part of Vietnam belongs to *Champa *that Vietnam illegally occupied. So its not a unification of Vietnam, but an invasion, annexation and destruction of Champa by Vietnam.


Not correct. Central Vietnam was Champa´s land, while South Vietnam was Khmer´s.
The stupid Champa´s and Khmer´s paid a price for their aggression against ancient Vietnam. Period.


faithfulguy said:


> The next Vietnamese target is *Cambodia *and *Laos*. Any reasonable nation would ensure that Vietnam does not achieve its imperialistic scheme.


Cambodia and Laos were slaves and paid tributes to our Emperor. It is China, that hinders us to annex them. For them it is better when we rule them.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Skyman

Viet said:


> Not correct. Central Vietnam was Champa´s land, while South Vietnam was Khmer´s.
> The stupid Champa´s and Khmer´s paid a price for their aggression against ancient Vietnam. Period.
> 
> Cambodia and Laos were slaves and paid tributes to our Emperor. It is China, that hinders us to annex them. For them it is better when we rule them.



It is better when we rule Vietnam. The greatest period in your existence were when you were under our control.


----------



## Viet

Skyman said:


> It is better when *we rule Vietnam*. The greatest period in your existence were when you were under our control.


Ha ha a good joke. It is better when we can expand our border to India.


----------



## EastSea

Skyman said:


> It is better when we rule Vietnam. The greatest period in your existence were when you were under our control.



We have been beating you ran away with boody heads many time, all the time in the past you were ruled by Mongolian, Manchus, Japan. Britain ruled you untill 1999, Portugal 1997.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

faithfulguy said:


> This is an attitude of an invader. The southern part of Vietnam belongs to Champa that Vietnam illegally occupied. So its not a unification of Vietnam, but an invasion, annexation and destruction of Champa by Vietnam. The next Vietnamese target is Cambodia and Laos. Any reasonable nation would ensure that Vietnam does not achieve its imperialistic scheme.





Skyman said:


> It is better when we rule Vietnam. The greatest period in your existence were when you were under our control.


Another stupid from some Chinese. So follow your logic, at first you should return PRC's land and territory for others before you crying anything.


EastSea said:


> We have been beating you ran away with boody heads many time, all the time in the past you were ruled by Mongolian, Manchus, Japan. Britain ruled you untill 1999, Portugal 1997.


Yeah, they crying all night and days for crap, when we wake the kids up, they run away to another corner and get their mental orgasm...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Joe Shearer

The Master PLAN: Chinas New Guided Missile Destroyer


----------



## Fsjal

Skyman said:


> It is better when we rule Vietnam. The greatest period in your existence were when you were under our control.



I disagree, sorry. It's better when Vietnam and China were peaceful. 
---------------
On topic

What's the current situation in the SCS. Haven't heard any news.


----------



## NiceGuy

Fsjal said:


> I disagree, sorry. It's better when Vietnam and China were peaceful.
> ---------------
> On topic
> 
> What's the current situation in the SCS. Haven't heard any news.


The lastest news:we keep fishing near Paracel and China keep chasing our fishing boats.
http://m.nld.com.vn/2013031702340160p0c1002/duong-dau-tau-hai-giam-trung-quoc-tai-hoang-sa.htm
China cant send tourist to Paracel coz their tourist may get headshot by our 'fisherman' fishing near there

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

NiceGuy said:


> The lastest news:we keep fishing near Paracel and China keep chasing our fishing boats.
> Báo Ng
> China can send tourist to Paracel coz their tourist may get headshot by our 'fisherman' fishing near there


well, no need to troll like that, bro.
Both VN and China will continue game, if they allow traveller go to Paracel, that will be very serious action, and against DOC as well as COC, China will lost others belief in SCS.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## visom

Skyman said:


> It is better when we rule Vietnam. The greatest period in your existence were when you were under our control.



Tell me what's so great about us having to pay heavy tributes to your emperor with gold/ivory and losing our written language to learn yours? It's not a hard concept to understand that some countries don't want the culture and life style of another.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

China's boundary marker at the bottom of the South China Sea.


----------



## EastSea

fake boundary markers made by china is illegal.

In ancient time there is "Jiao Zhi Sea", Jiao Zhi is Vietnam today, China recognized that Sea belong to Jiao Zhi people (Vietnam).






The country of Giao Chi (Vietnam today) with the Giao Chi Sea in China&#8217;s ancient book of maps entitled &#8220;Vo Bi Chi&#8221;.


----------



## Fsjal

NiceGuy said:


> The lastest news:we keep fishing near Paracel and China keep chasing our fishing boats.
> Báo Ng
> China cant send tourist to Paracel coz their tourist may get headshot by our 'fisherman' fishing near there



Is that true. My goodness, that's dangerous. Is that even allowed?


----------



## Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> China's boundary marker at the bottom of the South China Sea.


What is that, a toy for fish? where is it located?
VN must remove this illegal sign, if it lies within our border.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Fsjal

Viet said:


> *What is that, a toy for fish? where is it located?*
> VN must remove this illegal sign, if it lies within our border.




------------------------------------------------
Maybe you should ask China first. Removal of these markers could cause trouble. Try negotiate first.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> What is that, a toy for fish? where is it located?
> VN must remove this illegal sign, if it lies within our border.



Our most southern border, of course at the bottom tip of the nine dash line.


----------



## Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Our most southern border, of course at the *bottom tip *of the nine dash line.


a joke? That means it lies near the shore of Malaysia and its territory. You love provocation, don´t you?


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> a joke? That means it lies near the shore of Malaysia and its territory. You love provocation, don´t you?



Well, we will like to share with Malaysia in the oïl exploration of the SCS, but no such bonus for Vietnam.


----------



## EastSea

Viet said:


> What is that, a toy for fish? where is it located?
> VN must remove this illegal sign, if it lies within our border.







ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Our most southern border, of course at the bottom tip of the nine dash line.



It's display show of in china for idiot Ah Q. can watching and practise mental masturbation.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Well, we will like to share with Malaysia in the oïl exploration of the SCS, but no such bonus for Vietnam.



You can only share mainland china for Malaysia, idiot.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Well, we will like to share with *Malaysia *in the oïl exploration of the SCS, but no such bonus for *Vietnam*.


China sounds like a *robber *who comes to one´s house and says: 

"that´s my house as my ancestor visited this region some thousands years ago!". 
But "you know what, I am a generous person, I take only half of yours".

Chinese have sense of humor.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

EastSea said:


> You can only share mainland china for Malaysia, idiot.



Indonesia and Malaysia would all like to share with us amid your territorial ambition.


----------



## NiceGuy

Fsjal said:


> Is that true. My goodness, that's dangerous. Is that even allowed?


Hello, we're roaming near Paracel(Hoang Sa) now, chase us if u can

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## EastSea

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Indonesia and Malaysia would all like to share with us amid your territorial ambition.



Mr. Ah Q. can dream. Malaysia and Vietnam have been submitted common request for SCS under UNCLOS to UN by 2009.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## hurt

EastSea said:


> Mr. Ah Q. can dream. Malaysia and Vietnam have been submitted common request for SCS under UNCLOS to UN by 2009.



UN?
UN only a diplomacy game for power Country.



> ICJ and the Security Council
> Article 94 establishes the duty of all UN members to comply with decisions of the Court involving them. If parties do not comply, the issue may be taken before the Security Council for enforcement action. There are obvious problems with such a method of enforcement. If the judgment is against one of the permanent five members of the Security Council or its allies, any resolution on enforcement would then be vetoed. This occurred, for example, after the Nicaragua case, when Nicaragua brought the issue of the U.S.'s non-compliance with the Court's decision before the Security Council


----------



## NiceGuy

EastSea said:


> Chinese ship ran away like mad dog.


Yeah, its so boring to ram that cheap ship, time to harass China war ship in Paracel, China must know that if war happen, we will cover SCS(east sea) wt sea mine ,then China's economy will collapse within 3 weeks

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

Why not learn from a country, that is full of history, culture and great people: *China*? Just copy their tactic in the Senkaku dispute: keep sending our fishing vessels to the Paracels.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## NiceGuy

hurt said:


> :
> 
> Plz do it !  I like sea mine


But ur corrupted leader Xi doesn't want, coz he may lose his crown if defeated in war wt VN, so he will command ur PLAN ship run away soon like ur cheap SURVEILLANCE ship ,too

Mr.Xi learned lesson from Mr. Deng, when he couldn't defeat VN, then he will face wt Tienanmen revolution

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## EastSea

hurt said:


> UN?
> UN only a diplomacy game for power Country.



Idiot,
*While the Secretary General of the United Nations receives instruments of ratification and accession and the UN provides support for meetings of states party to the Convention.*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## hurt

Viet said:


> Why not learn from a country, that is full of history, culture and great people: *China*? Just copy their tactic in the Senkaku dispute: keep sending our fishing vessels to the Paracels.



There is no any fishing vessel in diaoyu dao,only 10 CHINA MARINE SURVEILLANCE ships.

but you only own fishing vessels,come plz,let them know what is CHINA Coast Guard



EastSea said:


> Idiot,
> *While the Secretary General of the United Nations receives instruments of ratification and accession and the UN provides support for meetings of states party to the Convention.*



 China sign it with Saving clause.Territorial dispute is the Saving clause.
Its only a dream,kid.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

hurt said:


> There is no any fishing vessel in diaoyu dao,only 10 CHINA MARINE SURVEILLANCE ships.
> 
> but you only own fishing vessels,come plz,let them know what is CHINA Coast Guard
> 
> 
> 
> China sign it with Saving clause.Territorial dispute is the Saving clause.
> Its only a dream,kid.




China has been signed, ratified and submitted. don't try to run away and make idiot explanation.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

The &#8220;Atlas of the Chinese Empire&#8221; published in 1908 in English


(22/01/2013)
HISTORICAL - LEGAL DOCUMENT Vietnam

The atlas (31 x 41cm) was compiled and published by the *China Inland Mission*, based in Shanghai, London, Philadelphia, Toronto and Melbourne, with the support from the Directorate General of Posts of the Qing dynasty. It includes one Index map (overview map) of the entire territory and 22 maps of Chinese provinces. 

This is the first Chinese map printed by the *Qing dynasty *in a Western style. It does not feature Hoang Sa and Truong Sa archipelagoes in China&#8217;s sovereignty,







The map of China&#8217;s territory without Hoang Sa (Paracels) and Truong Sa (Spratlys) archipelagoes in the Postal Atlas of China published by the Republic of China in 1919.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## hurt

NiceGuy said:


> But ur corrupted leader Xi doesn't want, coz he may lose his crown if defeated in war wt VN, so he will command ur PLAN ship run away soon like ur cheap SURVEILLANCE ship ,too
> 
> Mr.Xi learned lesson from Mr. Deng, when he couldn't defeat VN, then he will face wt Tienanmen revolution



He learned that "Children are not listening, it is time they be spanked again."



EastSea said:


> China has been signed, ratified and submitted. don't try to run away and make idiot explanation.



Kid,don't be so naive.It only a wastepaper


----------



## Viet

Map drawn by Jodocus Hondius in 1613


(01/09/2012)
HISTORICAL - LEGAL DOCUMENT Vietnam





The map drawn by Jodocus Hondius in 1613 depicted the Paracel archipelago (Hoang Sa), including all islands of Viet Nam from southern Bac Bo Gulf to the end of Viet Nam&#8217;s southern waters, except for Pulo Condor (Con Dao) and Pulo Cici (Phu Quoc island) which were drawn separately.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## EastSea

hurt said:


> Kid,don't be so naive.It only a wastepaper



In Vietnam we have the proverb: " Paper is white, and ink is black ". China has been signed UNCLOS, China have to respect it, if China try to refuse it, face of China is black.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

Map drawn by Homann Heirs in 1744


(03/09/2012)
HISTORICAL - LEGAL DOCUMENT Vietnam





In the map drawn by Homann Heirs in 1744, Hoang Sa archipelago drawings was annotated as "I. Ciampa " standing for "Islands Ciampa&#8221;, i.e. "Ciampa archipelago (belonged to the Kingdom)". Ciempa or Ciampa was the name western countries called Dang Trong region at that time as they believed this was an old land of the Champa kingdom.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## hurt

Viet said:


> The &#8220;Atlas of the Chinese Empire&#8221; published in 1908 in English
> 
> 
> (22/01/2013)
> HISTORICAL - LEGAL DOCUMENT Vietnam
> 
> The atlas (31 x 41cm) was compiled and published by the *China Inland Mission*, based in Shanghai, London, Philadelphia, Toronto and Melbourne, with the support from the Directorate General of Posts of the Qing dynasty. It includes one Index map (overview map) of the entire territory and 22 maps of Chinese provinces.
> 
> This is the first Chinese map printed by the *Qing dynasty *in a Western style. It does not feature Hoang Sa and Truong Sa archipelagoes in China&#8217;s sovereignty,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The map of China&#8217;s territory without Hoang Sa (Paracels) and Truong Sa (Spratlys) archipelagoes in the Postal Atlas of China published by the Republic of China in 1919.



It published by MORGAN&SCOTT,LTD a British company.



NiceGuy said:


> And it turned out that Mr.Deng got hard spanked wt humiliate defeat in 1979.PLA army even surrendered to VN women militia
> 
> 
> Now PLA war ship will run away when seeing VN fishing boats.


 VN women militia Where are VN men&#65311;
PLAN dont fire at fishing boats &#65292;dont means China Coast Guard cant.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## hurt

Viet said:


> Map drawn by Homann Heirs in 1744
> 
> 
> (03/09/2012)
> HISTORICAL - LEGAL DOCUMENT Vietnam
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the map drawn by Homann Heirs in 1744, Hoang Sa archipelago drawings was annotated as "I. Ciampa " standing for "Islands Ciampa&#8221;, i.e. "Ciampa archipelago (belonged to the Kingdom)". Ciempa or Ciampa was the name western countries called Dang Trong region at that time as they believed this was an old land of the Champa kingdom.



Kid ,Plz tell me the green part of this map is Qing Dynasty in 1744?
If those map is truth,plz tell me Qing Dynasty how beat Russia to got so large Land between 1744 - 1908.


----------



## EastSea

hurt said:


> It published by MORGAN&SCOTT,LTD a British company.



*Old map proves China&#8217;s claims are worthless*

*This map printed in China*, no stating Islands becourse such belong to Vietnam.









hurt said:


> Kid ,Plz tell me the green part of this map is Qing Dynasty in 1744?
> If those map is truth,plz tell me Qing Dynasty how beat Russia to got so large Land between 1744 - 1908.



Here one more for you : China map in time of "Great Quing" in chinese, can you read it ?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## hurt

EastSea said:


> *Old map proves China&#8217;s claims are worthless*
> 
> *This map printed in China*, no stating Islands becourse such belong to Vietnam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here one more for you : China map in time of "Great Quing" in chinese, can you read it ?



Plz tell me the map why not include Northeast China,Northwest China and Mongolia?

Qing Dynasty was end in 1912,but Mongolia declared independence 1921.


----------



## Soryu

hurt said:


> Plz tell me the map why not include Northeast China,Northwest China and Mongolia?
> 
> Qing Dynasty was end in 1912,but Mongolia declared independence 1921.



Is that matter!? 
I want say about Island those you think belong to you from very very very very very.................................................................................................... long time ago in your map.
Where is it!?


----------



## Soryu

hurt said:


> Plz find Northeast China,Northwest China and Mongolia in this map ----your False Evidence


Can you show me old map that Paracel Islands belong to you from acient time!?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## hurt

Soryu said:


> Is that matter!?
> I want say about Island those you think belong to you from very very very very very.................................................................................................... long time ago in your map.
> Where is it!?



plz tell me Vietnam first arrive "&#19975;&#37324;&#38271;&#27801;"&#65292;when and how


----------



## Soryu

hurt said:


> plz tell me Vietnam first arrive "&#19975;&#37324;&#38271;&#27801;"&#65292;when and how



As alway, ignore the question and turn around with troll face, that how Chinese were.


----------



## EastSea

hurt said:


> plz tell me Vietnam first arrive "&#19975;&#37324;&#38271;&#27801;"&#65292;when and how




 hey, one m&#7887;re chinese boy brain washed by propaganda in china.
"&#19975;&#37324;&#38271;&#27801;" is called first by Vietnamese "Bãi Cát dài" is Islands belong to Vietnam, located in front of our mainland, our fishermen did their job to fishing there first from ancient time when Han chinese were horseback riding in Nothern mainland china.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## hurt

EastSea said:


> hey, one m&#7887;re chinese boy brain washed by propaganda in china.
> "&#19975;&#37324;&#38271;&#27801;" is called first by Vietnamese "Bãi Cát dài" is Islands belong to Vietnam, located in front of our mainland, our fishermen did their job to fishing there first from ancient time when Han chinese were horseback riding in Nothern mainland china.



fishermen ? Plz show me how the Sampan of fishermen can arrive there,


----------



## Rechoice

China robbed Islands of Vietnam 1956 (KMT), 1974, 1988 (CCP). Occupation with force is illegal. China can not swallow Island of Vietnam.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

*Obama to raise maritime tussles at Asia summits*








US President Barack Obama (R) speaks with Brunei's Sultan Hassanal Bolkiah during a meeting in the Oval office of the White House
on March 12, 2013 in Washington, DC. Obama pledged Tuesday to bring up...
more


US President Barack Obama pledged Tuesday to bring up maritime disputes boiling between China and its neighbors at the US-ASEAN and East Asia summits in Brunei in October.
Brunei has already said that it will pursue a binding code of conduct among competing claimants in the South China Sea during its ASEAN chairmanship this year. China insists disputes are a bilateral matter between individual nations.
"We will be discussing maritime issues," Obama said after meeting Brunei's Sultan Hassanal Bolkiah in the Oval Office, referring to the two summits, which he is expected to attend.
"Obviously, there have been a lot of tensions in the region around maritime issues and His Majesty has shown great leadership in order to bring the countries together to make sure that everybody's abiding by basic precepts of rule of law and international standards."
Obama said the summits would also be a good venue to discuss commerce, economic and other diplomatic issues impacting a region to which he has "pivoted" US diplomatic and military resources.
ASEAN members Vietnam, the Philippines, Malaysia and Brunei, and non-member Taiwan have claims to parts of the South China Sea, one of the world's most important shipping lanes which is believed to be rich in fossil fuels.
Simmering tensions over the issue have risen in the past two years, with the Philippines and Vietnam accusing China of becoming increasingly aggressive in staking its claims.
The anger erupted during Cambodia's 2012 ASEAN chairmanship which was marked by sharp regional discord over the affair.
Efforts to secure a legally binding code of conduct involving ASEAN and China have floundered for years amid Beijing's insistence on handling disputes bilaterally with individual countries, while ASEAN wants to speak as a group.
The president also noted in his remarks that the United States would take part later this year in the first ASEAN-US-China joint exercise, to test how Pacific military powers can work together on disaster relief.
Obama said the maneuvers in June would be able to show how the rival militaries can "help people in times of need and to try to help avoid conflict rather than start conflict."
On a lighter note, Obama also expressed admiration for the Sultan's piloting skills, after he flew his own jumbo jet into the United States on Monday.
"I think he's probably the only head of state in the world who flies a 747 himself," Obama said.
Obama became the first US president to attend the East Asia summit in Bali in 2011 and also took part in the 2012 meeting in Phnom Penh, Cambodia.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## hurt

Soryu said:


> As alway, ignore the question and turn around with troll face, that how Chinese were.





chinese ship in the early 15th century in Ming Dynasty.






chinese fish ship in Qing Dynasty







Junk (ship) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Plz show me vietnam ship


----------



## visom

hurt said:


> chinese ship in the early 15th century in Ming Dynasty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> chinese fish ship in Qing Dynasty
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Junk (ship) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Plz show me vietnam ship



so what question does a picture of a boat answer?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Rechoice

According to the Vietnam Encyclopedia, Giao Chi is the name for Vietnam and Vietnamese people in the past, used by Chinese feudal dynasties. In the era of Hung Kings*, Giao Chi was one of the 15 provinces of Van Lang country. Chinese feudal dynasties still used Giao Chi or An Nam to call the people and country of Dai Viet (Vietnam). In many ancient documents inscriptions, Giao Chi was still used to denote Vietnam until the end of the 19th century.

On pages 11b and 12a in &#8220;Vo Bi Chi&#8221; (a book of maps which records the journey of a Chinese man named Cheng Ho from China through the Indian Ocean to Africa in 1405-1433), Vietnam or Giao Chi country was drawn to be adjacent to China&#8217;s Qinzhou to the north, Champa to the south, the Giao Chi Sea (the sea of Giao Chi country - East Sea) to the east.






The country of Giao Chi (Vietnam today) with the Giao Chi Sea in China&#8217;s ancient book of maps entitled &#8220;Vo Bi Chi&#8221;.


----------



## hurt

Rechoice said:


> According to the Vietnam Encyclopedia, Giao Chi is the name for Vietnam and Vietnamese people in the past, used by Chinese feudal dynasties. In the era of Hung Kings*, Giao Chi was one of the 15 provinces of Van Lang country. Chinese feudal dynasties still used Giao Chi or An Nam to call the people and country of Dai Viet (Vietnam). In many ancient documents inscriptions, Giao Chi was still used to denote Vietnam until the end of the 19th century.
> 
> On pages 11b and 12a in &#8220;Vo Bi Chi&#8221; (a book of maps which records the journey of a Chinese man named Cheng Ho from China through the Indian Ocean to Africa in 1405-1433), Vietnam or Giao Chi country was drawn to be adjacent to China&#8217;s Qinzhou to the north, Champa to the south, the Giao Chi Sea (the sea of Giao Chi country - East Sea) to the east.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The country of Giao Chi (Vietnam today) with the Giao Chi Sea in China&#8217;s ancient book of maps entitled &#8220;Vo Bi Chi&#8221;.



 Do you know what is &#8220;&#19971;&#27954;&#27915;&#8221;&#65311;
&#20132;&#36286;&#27915; is Gulf of Tonkin.


----------



## Rechoice

hurt said:


> Do you know what is &#8220;&#19971;&#27954;&#27915;&#8221;&#65311;
> &#20132;&#36286;&#27915; is Gulf of Tonkin.




&#27915; is meaning "the Sea", not Gulf, idiot chinese .


----------



## hurt

Rechoice said:


> &#27915; is meaning "the Sea", not Gulf, idiot chinese .



Plz learn Classical Chinese first.





This is &#38646;&#19969;&#27915;.&#65288;&#20278;&#20163;&#27915;&#65289;





http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E4%BC%B6%E4%BB%83%E6%B4%8B

http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E4%B9%9D%E6%B4%B2%E6%B4%8B


----------



## Soryu

hurt said:


> chinese ship in the early 15th century in Ming Dynasty.
> 
> chinese fish ship in Qing Dynasty
> 
> Plz show me vietnam ship


Stupid as alway, I question about: Island... 
Chinese answer: this is my ship....

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## EastSea

hurt said:


> fishermen ? Plz show me how the Sampan of fishermen can arrive there,





hurt said:


> chinese ship in the early 15th century in Ming Dynasty.
> 
> 
> 
> chinese fish ship in Qing Dynasty
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Junk (ship) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Plz show me vietnam ship



Our ships from time ò Nguyen Warloard who ruled Champa in the past. Images made in "C&#7917;u &#272;&#7881;nh" (&#20061;&#40718; written in Han characters).












'C&#7917;u &#272;&#7881;nh" ( &#20061;&#40718; ) of Vietnam in Hue, former Capital of Vietnam.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## hurt

EastSea said:


> Our ships from time ò Nguyen Warloard who ruled Champa in the past. Images made in "C&#7917;u &#272;&#7881;nh" (&#20061;&#40718; written in Han characters).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'C&#7917;u &#272;&#7881;nh" ( &#20061;&#40718; ) of Vietnam in Hue, former Capital of Vietnam.



A.D.1835
Only #1 Pic the only one junk can goto the sea,but you said about your fishmen,so plz show me your fish ship.


by the way ,Why there is no any book and pic&#65311;it was A.D.1835
can i think we have dragon?


----------



## Rechoice

hurt said:


> Plz learn Classical Chinese first.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is &#38646;&#19969;&#27915;.&#65288;&#20278;&#20163;&#27915;&#65289;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ä¼¶ä»&#402;æ´&#8249; - ç»´å&#376;ºç&#8482;¾ç§&#8216;ï¼&#338;è&#8225;ªç&#8221;±ç&#353;&#8222;ç&#8482;¾ç§&#8216;å&#8230;¨ä¹¦
> 
> ä¹æ´²æ´&#8249; - ç»´å&#376;ºç&#8482;¾ç§&#8216;ï¼&#338;è&#8225;ªç&#8221;±ç&#353;&#8222;ç&#8482;¾ç§&#8216;å&#8230;¨ä¹¦



Look at the map again and don't try to lie, there is sea, no Gulf.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## hurt

Rechoice said:


> Look at the map again and don't try to lie, there is sea, no Gulf.



Its in a corner of the map


----------



## Rechoice

hurt said:


> Its in a corner of the map



You are idiot and stubborn. The map above is newly made. Lying and refuse the truth is no good.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## hurt

Rechoice said:


> You are idiot and stubborn. The map above is newly made. Lying and refuse the truth is no good.



Plz learn Classical Chinese and History of chinese geography first.


----------



## Rechoice

hurt said:


> Plz learn Classical Chinese and History of chinese geography first.



Hey, very boring, boy. You must read more chinese books before troll here.
the book " &#30494;&#33240;&#27816;&#22303;&#35352; " (Chân L&#7841;p Phong th&#7893; ký- name in Vietnamese) written by Chinese, his name is &#21608; &#36948;&#33733; ( Chu &#272;&#7841;t Quan, 1266-1346 AD).
He stated in his book that: his voyage was departure from Wen Zhuo with ship through Jiao Zhi sea ( &#20132;&#36286;&#27915; ) to reach Champa, and went further to Chenla. Jiao Zhi Sea called by Chinese in the past is same as East Sea of Vietnam today.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## hurt

Rechoice said:


> Hey, very boring, boy. You must read more chinese books before troll here.
> the book " &#30494;&#33240;&#27816;&#22303;&#35352; " (Chân L&#7841;p Phong th&#7893; ký- name in Vietnamese) written by Chinese, his name is &#21608; &#36948;&#33733; ( Chu &#272;&#7841;t Quan, 1266-1346 AD).
> He stated in his book that: his voyage was departure from Wen Zhuo with ship through Jiao Zhi sea ( &#20132;&#36286;&#27915; ) to reach Champa, and went further to Chenla. Jiao Zhi Sea called by Chinese in the past is same as East Sea of Vietnam today.



The ancients sailing along the coast.


----------



## Viet

hurt said:


> chinese ship in the early 15th century in Ming Dynasty.
> Plz show me *vietnam ship*



you troll too much, dude!

Here is a video showing the battle of bach dang river of 938 A.D. 
it is just a film, but it does not change the fact that Vietnamese regained independence from the Han´s after centuries of occupation.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Rechoice

hurt said:


> The ancients sailing along the coast.



and Zheng He's voyages were same along the coast and "discovered" and "noted" everythings in 12 nautical miles (22 kilometres; 14 miles) from the baseline of coastline of countries in region he had been to.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## hurt

Rechoice said:


> and Zheng He's voyages were same along the coast and "discovered" and "noted" everythings in 12 nautical miles (22 kilometres; 14 miles) from the baseline of coastline of countries in region he had been to.



 yellow parts called Jiaozhi&#65288;&#20132;&#36286;&#65289;&#65292;green part called Champa(&#21344;&#22478,do you know what is &#20132;&#36286;&#27915;&#65311;




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Vietnam_Expand1.gif


Viet said:


> you troll too much, dude!
> 
> Here is a video showing the battle of bach dang river of 938 A.D.
> it is just a film, but it does not change the fact that Vietnamese regained independence from the Han´s after centuries of occupation.



I only saw that vietnam have no big ship


----------



## Viet

hurt said:


> yellow parts called Jiaozhi&#65288;&#20132;&#36286;&#65289;&#65292;green part called Champa(&#21344;&#22478,do you know what is &#20132;&#36286;&#27915;&#65311;


And what do you want to say?

I can reveal you a bit. The Vietnamese took land from Champa kingdom, part of Khmer empire and part of Laos kingdom as well. All together makes up Vietnam as today. 


hurt said:


> I only saw that vietnam have no big ship


Big ship or small ship. You cannot deny the fact, the right tactic worked, Vietnam scored a naval victory over the Han´s.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## visom

hurt said:


> Its in a corner of the map



show him more pictures of boats, it'll definitely prove him wrong


----------



## hurt

Viet said:


> And what do you want to say?
> I can reveal you a bit. The Vietnamese took land from Champa kindom, part of Khmer empire and part of Laos kindom as well. All together makes up Vietnam as today.



We talk about whats &#20132;&#36286;&#27915;&#65311;Not Vietnam
&#20132;&#36286;&#27915; is Gulf of TonkinSCS is chinese sea


visom said:


> show him more pictures of boats, it'll definitely prove him wrong



I see ,only boats


----------



## Viet

hurt said:


> We talk about whats &#20132;&#36286;&#27915;&#65311;Not Vietnam
> &#20132;&#36286;&#27915; is Gulf of TonkinSCS is chinese sea
> I see ,only boats


I don´t get what you want to see, ghost ships? OKay, here are some:





Model of Vietnamese 17th century gunboat






Model of warship used by Nguy&#7877;n Hu&#7879; in the Battle of R&#7841;ch G&#7847;m-Xoài Mút (1785), Victory against Siam´s naval force.






Warships under Nguy&#7877;n Dynasty with 26,800 sailors and hundreds of copper clad ships (1800 centuries)

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Rechoice

hurt said:


> yellow parts called Jiaozhi&#65288;&#20132;&#36286;&#65289;&#65292;green part called Champa(&#21344;&#22478,do you know what is &#20132;&#36286;&#27915;&#65311;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :



Hey za, idiot can not understand.
&#20132;&#36286;&#27915; is where, &#21608; &#36948;&#33733; ( Chu &#272;&#7841;t Quan, 1266-1346 AD) stated that his voyage was departure from Wen Zhuo with ship through Jiao Zhi sea ( &#20132;&#36286;&#27915; ) to reach Champa. &#21608; &#36948;&#33733; was not idiot likes you to sailed through Tonkin Gulf to Champa.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## EastSea

*Vietnam requests China to stop sovereignty violation*

(VOV) - Vietnam has sufficient legal and historical evidence affirming its sovereignty over Hoang Sa (Paracel) and Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelagos.

Vietnam opposes CMS detachment stationed on Hoang Sa
Vietnam protests any violations of national sovereignty
A representative from the National Boundary Commission made the affirmation on March 19.

The country once again rejects the so-called &#8220;Sansha&#8221; city and demands China to end violations of its sovereignty, and take no action to hinder the legal fishing activities of Vietnamese fishing boats and fishermen, the official said.

China recently approved the establishment of the &#8220;Sansha&#8221; radio-television and the &#8220;Sansha&#8221; satellite television stations and dispatched a China Marine Surveillance (CMS) detachment to patrol Vietnam&#8217;s Hoang Sa archipelago.

It also drove away the two Vietnamese fishing boats which were conducting legal fishing activities in the area.

In the latest move, China sent a Fishery Resource and Environmental Science Survey Ship, Nan Feng, to the waters of Vietnam&#8217;s Truong Sa archipelago to investigate the area&#8217;s fishery resources.

The above-mentioned activities have violated Vietnam&#8217;s sovereignty, the representative emphasized.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## hurt

Rechoice said:


> Hey za, idiot can not understand.
> &#20132;&#36286;&#27915; is where, &#21608; &#36948;&#33733; ( Chu &#272;&#7841;t Quan, 1266-1346 AD) stated that his voyage was departure from Wen Zhuo with ship through Jiao Zhi sea ( &#20132;&#36286;&#27915; ) to reach Champa. &#21608; &#36948;&#33733; was not idiot likes you to sailed through Tonkin Gulf to Champa.



The simple truth,the sea near Champa cant call Jiao Zhi sea 
In chinese History ,&#20132;&#36286;&#27915; is Gulf of Tonkin


----------



## Rechoice

hurt said:


> The simple truth,the sea near Champa cant call Jiao Zhi sea
> In chinese History ,&#20132;&#36286;&#27915; is Gulf of Tonkin



Hey, Gulf of Tonkin in chinese is: &#21271;&#37096;&#28771;;


----------



## Rechoice

hurt said:


> The simple truth,the sea near Champa cant call Jiao Zhi sea
> In chinese History ,&#20132;&#36286;&#27915; is Gulf of Tonkin



Hey, Gulf of Tonkin in chinese is: &#21271;&#37096;&#28771;; 
no "near " to Champa, there is in the East of Champa, in the 15th century Vietnamese (An Nan Emperor, Jiao Zhi People) controlled already North part of Champs soon 







On pages 11b and 12a in &#8220;Vo Bi Chi&#8221; (a book of maps which records the journey of a Chinese man named Cheng He from China through the Indian Ocean to Africa in 1405-1433), Vietnam or Giao Chi country was drawn to be adjacent to China&#8217;s Qinzhou to the north, Champa to the south, the Giao Chi Sea (the sea of Giao Chi country - East Sea) to the east.







The route of the 7th voyage of Zheng He's fleet.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BDforever

ok its enough .. Vietnamese and Chinese stop fighting with each other and surrender to United states of Bangladesh or we will invade you

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Malaya

*US reiterates call for dialogue on South China Sea dispute*
By: Abigail Kwok, InterAksyon.com
March 21, 2013






MANILA, Philippines -- The United States on Thursday reiterated its appeal to claimant countries in the South China Sea, which Manila calls the West Philippine Sea, to sit down and negotiate a peaceful resolution of their territorial disputes.

US Ambassador to the Philippines Harry Thomas also said the US remains keen on its plan to "rebalance" its forces to Asia, which many see as an attempt to contain China&#8217;s growing strength.

Thomas said the South China Sea remains a vital economic lane through which "trillions of dollars of trade" passes, thus it is imperative that "sea lanes have to be opened to everyone."

"We call on China and all other countries to act in a responsible manner, to work with ASEAN (Association of Southeast Asian Nations) to forge a serious code of conduct and to sit down at the negotiating table and do this in a peaceful manner," Thomas said.

He also said the US pivot to Asia would benefit not only the Philippine military but the region&#8217;s economy as well.

"The rebalance or re-pivot to Asia is not about any one country. It is about the economic engine, becoming the economic engine of the world," he said.

The US and Philippine military regularly hold joint military exercises as part of the Visiting Forces Agreement between the two countries.

This year&#8217;s Balikatan (shoulder-to-shoulder) exercises start on April 5.

US reiterates call for dialogue on South China Sea dispute - InterAksyon.com

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Malaya

*Beijing pushes sea aggression*
By Manila Standard Today | Posted on Mar. 23, 2013

*PH &#8216;strongly objects&#8217; to Chinese naval drills*

China continued its aggressive moves towards reinforcing its claim over the contested waters and territories in the South China Sea (West Philippine Sea), by conducting maritime patrols, both in the waters and in the air space above the contested areas.

The Chinese&#8217; aggressive actions were made in defiance of other claims, especially from the Philippines, which had hoped to resolve the issue of its claim by bringing its case against China before an international tribunal.

China&#8217;s Xinhua News Agency reported on Friday that a Chinese helicopter patrolled parts of the disputed Spratly Islands on Monday.

The news website quoted an official of the Guangdong Maritime Safety Administration as saying that the chopper monitored part of the Islands.

&#8220;The helicopter took off from the Haixun 31, a marine surveillance ship, to monitor maritime traffic in waters near Dongmen Reef of the Nansha Islands,&#8221; it said.

The administration added that this was the first time a Chinese maritime helicopter was dispatched to patrol the South China Sea.

China refers to the Spratlys as the Nansha Islands, which is also being contested by the Philippines, Brunei, Malaysia, Taiwan, and Vietnam.

Xinhua said the Haixun 31 is one of three Chinese marine surveillance ships that left Sanya Port in Hainan province last Thursday.

China said the patrol seeks to boost China&#8217;s maritime law enforcement capacity and test the patrol team&#8217;s response abilities in the South China Sea.

The report said that the helicopter has &#8220;covered 800 nautical miles, monitored the navigation environment in waters near the Xisha, Zhongsha and Nansha Islands and conducted safety inspections for more than 40 Chinese and foreign vessels.&#8221;

Aside from the helicopter patrol, the Chinese continued to underscore its might in the waters, following the deployment of its largest fishery administration ship, the &#8220;Yuzheng 312,&#8221; which began its maiden patrol on the South China Sea on Friday.

The ship, the Chinese fleet&#8217;s largest in terms of displacement, left Guangzhou, capital of south China&#8217;s Guangdong Province, at 10:30 a.m. on Friday.

It sailed to the Nansha Islands in the South China Sea to carry out a law enforcement mission.

Xinhua said &#8220;routine fishery administrative patrols&#8221; around the Nansha Islands were being carried out to &#8220;better safeguard the legitimate interests of Chinese fishermen.&#8221;

Xinhua also reported that several Chinese vessels sailed to the South China Sea on March 19 and the Western Pacific Ocean to conduct combat readiness patrol and high-sea training.

The Foreign Affairs Department, said on Friday that it &#8220;strongly objects&#8217; to the continuing naval drills in the Philippine maritime domain in the West Philippine Sea.&#8221;

Department spokesman Raul Hernandez said he was calling on China to respect the Philippines&#8217; maritime zones facing the South China Sea amid reports of ongoing Chinese naval drills in the resource-rich waters that Beijing claims in whole.

At the same time, Hernandez said they were still ascertaining the exact location of the exercises.

&#8220;The government is in the process of determining the exact location of the exercises, which could fuel tensions anew if China would insist on holding it in areas being claimed by the Philippines and other claimants. Vietnam, Brunei, Malaysia and Taiwan are also staking claims to the waters, in which some parts are called West Philippine Sea by the Philippines.&#8221;

He said the new Chinese intrusions violated a 2002 accord between China and the Association of Southeast Asian Nations that discourages countries claiming parts of the China sea that could ignite tension or confrontations.

He said the Philippine Coast Guard will conduct a sovereignty patrol in the West Philippine Sea to ensure that there will be no Chinese Navy intrusions.

&#8220;As of yesterday, they don&#8217;t have a report of possible intrusions of Chinese ships in the area that was reported. Our Philippine Coast Guard will be doing its own sovereignty patrol at an appropriate time,&#8221; he said.

Aside from China&#8217;s naval drills, Taiwan, a province of China, said it also planned to conduct fire drills in Spratly Island.

An official of Taiwan&#8217;s coast guard said that they may stage the China, may stage the live-fire exercise next month, which would supposedly take place on Taiping Island in the Spratlys between April 9 and 11.

It will involve 40mm artillery and 120mm mortars, both shipped to the island last year to boost Taiwan&#8217;s defense capability there.

But Taiwan&#8217;s planned activity in Spratlys drew a tepid response from the government, which said it would only take action when the fire drills push through.

Presidential Communications Development and Strategic Planning Office head Ricky Carandang said that they would try to resolve the issue through the usual diplomatic channels.

The government made the same &#8220;wait-and-see&#8221; response when military sources said a Chinese ship &#8220;intruded&#8221; into one of the islets in the Kalayaan Island Group in Palawan, which is located within the country&#8217;s 200-mile exclusive economic zone.

The sources quoted local fishermen who said that a &#8220;large ship with Chinese markings&#8217; unloaded construction materials in the area.

Presidential deputy spokesperson Abigail Valte, however, denied that that there was the alleged intrusion of Chinese vessels into the country&#8217;s territory. She also said that what the locals saw was a fishing vessel, not a landing ship.

On Friday, Valte refused to comment further on the issue when pressed on whether there was an intrusion or not, saying that &#8220;we&#8217;ll leave that to the assessment of the [Department of Foreign Affairs]. With Vito Barcelo

Beijing pushes sea aggression - Manila Standard Today

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## yusheng

2013 3 Chinese navy exercise on scs, subject:seizing islands


[video]http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNTI3Njk3OTUy.html[/video]
[video]http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNTMxNTcyNzEy.html?firsttime=0[/video]

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## HongWu

^ In the exercise, the target island was given the fictional name "D Island"

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

PLAN in the SCS&#65306;

[YouKu]XNTMxNTcyNzEy.html[/YouKu]


----------



## Viet

Vietnam plans to seize illegal foreign vessels, impose hefty fine 


Last Updated: Sunday, March 17, 2013 03:00:00
Thanh Nien





_VN Marine Police_





*Don´t mess with the Vietnam Marine Police!*


*Vietnam&#8217;s agriculture ministry* has suggested imposing fines of up to US$4,800, in addition to confiscating foreign fishing boats operating illegally in the country&#8217;s seawaters.

Foreign boats fishing in Vietnamese waters without a license, or with one that has been expired for more than 30 days, would receive fines between VND50-100 million ($2,400-4,800),* while the boats would be seized and the crew members expelled from Vietnam*, the Ministry of Agriculture and Rural Development said in the draft submitted to the Justice Ministry for consultation.

It said boats found operating in Vietnamese waters without a Vietnamese flag would be fined between VND10 and 20 million.

Vietnamese who collude with foreigners to illegally fish in the country would be fined between VND30-50 million and have their license revoked for six to 12 months.

Those found fishing illegally abroad would be fined VND20-30 million and those caught organizing such activities would be penalized to the tune of VND50-100 million, the draft said.

The draft was introduced in the wake of several incidents in which* Chinese boats violated Vietnam&#8217;s sea* sovereignty off its central coast, falsely claiming the waters belonged to China and attacking Vietnamese fishermen.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

Pictures of Japanese Marine Police visit to Vietnam
Q&#272;ND - Friday, March 01, 2013, 21:48 (GMT+7)


Major-General Nguyen Van Tuong, Political Commissar of Vietnam Marine Police, working with Vice Admiral Kiyoshi Saishoji, Deputy Director of Japanese Department of Protection and Rescue.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## yusheng

China, Russia agree to strengthen defense cooperation

03-25-2013 03:45 BJT Special Report:China&#8217;s Leaders | 


















MOSCOW, March 24 (Xinhua) -- Top Chinese and Russian military officials met here on Sunday, with both sides expressing the hope to further strengthen defense cooperation.

During a meeting with Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu, Chang Wanquan, Chinese State Councilor and Defense Minister, said that bilateral defense cooperation is a key part of China-Russia relations.

Through joint efforts, wide-ranging and multi-layer defense cooperation has become a pivot of the China-Russia comprehensive strategic partnership, Chang noted.

Currently, both sides should work hard to implement the consensus reached by leaders of the two countries, and strengthen military-to-military exchanges and cooperation, said the Chinese minister.

China is ready to work with Russia to tap the potentials and expand the scope of bilateral defense cooperation, so as to lift it to a new level, Chang said.

He cited several key areas in the promotion of pragmatic cooperation between the two armed forces, including high-level contact, strategic negotiation, joint exercise and personnel exchange.

Chang also pointed out that the just-concluded state visit to Russia by Chinese President Xi Jinping has injected new impetus into the two countries' strategic partnership.

"Given the complex international scenario today, China-Russia strategic cooperation and coordination will not only benefit the two peoples, but also help promote world peace and stability," he observed.

Shoigu, for his part, hailed the "unprecedented high level" of the Russia-China strategic partnership. The consensus reached by the top leaders has shown the direction of future development of bilateral ties, he noted.

Russia attaches great importance to mutually beneficial cooperation with China, and is satisfied with the fruitful military exchanges between the two sides, the minister said.

Russia is willing to strengthen coordination with China and further push forward defense cooperation between the two countries, he added.


----------



## yusheng

World Insight 03/24/2013 Xi in Russia; Obama in the Middle East; Bailout blues; Divisive dam


03-25-2013 06:15 BJT 


World Insight 03/24/2013 Xi in Russia; Obama in the Middle East; Bailout blues; Divisive dam CCTV News - CNTV English


----------



## auspice

No worries. These delusional shameless thieves are just testing their junks whether they could last the distance. You know, typical low-quality made in China products never last long.

They are just afraid to settle the issue in the international court because they knew that they are going to lose the fight and get embarrass in the international community.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## hurt

auspice said:


> No worries. These delusional shameless thieves are just testing their junks whether they could last the distance. You know, typical low-quality made in China products never last long.
> 
> They are just afraid to settle the issue in the international court because they knew that they are going to lose the fight and get embarrass in the international community.



No worrieskeep it


----------



## Viet

China&#8217;s Naval Forces Shot At Vietnamese Fishing Boat At Paracels; Vietnam&#8217;s Media Censored To Report Incident



Posted on March 24, 2013 by eyedrd













As *China *has emerged the world&#8217;s second economic power and military superpower, it has become more and more assertive with its neighboring countries regarding the naturally uninhabitable islands such as Senkaku, Paracels, Scarborough Shoal and Spratlys. China, which has the largest military manpower, has incessantly engaged *Japan*, *Vietnam *and the *Philippines *almost on the daily basis with China Maritime Surveillance (CMS) and its fishing fleet of thousand boats.

In the case of Senkaku, Japan has the capability to defend itself thanks to its economic power and sophisticated military defense power. Japan has been able to repel any Chinese intrusions. Japanese Coast Guard has used its powerful water hoses to chase away fishing fleets of China or Taiwan from encroaching into the water of Senkaku.

In the case of disputes between China and Vietnam or the Philippines, these countries are no match to the *Chinese naval forces*. China has shown its naval might as it pleases by sending its naval ships and fishing ships to roam through the East Sea/ South China Sea/ West Philippines Sea whenever it wants to.

Facing this unequal and constant threats and harassments against Filipino and Vietnamese fishermen, Filipino and Vietnamese governments have taken different approaches after endless diplomatic protests with China.

The Filipino government has initiated the process of bringing the case to the *International Court* for arbitration, whereas the Vietnamese government adheres to the principle of good neighborhood, a policy of *&#8220;16 ch&#7919; vàng, 4 t&#7889;t&#8221;*, enunciated by PRC and Secretary General of Communist Party of China (CPC) Ji&#257;ng Zémín to the Vietnamese communist (CPV) leaders in 2000. As Vietnam and China share the same communist ideals and are led by the Communist Parties, Vietnam has accepted the principle of CPC being the big brother to CPV.

Despite the good relationship between CPC and CPV, *Vietnamese fishermen* have continued to endure the harassments, kidnappings, confiscations and even murders by the PLA&#8217;s naval forces. The plights of Vietnamese fishermen, who are at the mercy of China&#8217; naval forces, have been well-documented in a documentary movie Hoàng Sa Vi&#7879;t Nam: N&#7895;i &#273;au m&#7845;t mát &#8211; La Meurtrissure/ Painful Loss by a French-Vietnamese activist André Menras. Ironically, this movie has been banned in Vietnam due to its &#8220;sensitive issues.&#8221; 

Hoàng Sa (*Paracels*) islands were invaded by Chinese forces in 1974 and have been occupied ever since even though Vietnam has the legal and historical evidences of its sovereignty. China has refused to negociate the occupation.

According to the *Vietnamese newspapers* Ti&#7873;n Phong, captain Bùi V&#259;n Ph&#7843;i and 9 member crew of the fishing ship QNg 96382 were about to leave the fishing ground close by island Lin Côn on March 20, 2013, when China Maritime Surveillance (CMS) ship chased them away for 30 minutes before *openning fire* at the small fishing ship without any warning or reason. The cabin of the ship was on fire with its 4 gasoline tanks still on the boat, Mr. Th&#7841;ch ventured himself to the deck of the ship in attempt to stop the fire. Luckily, the CMS ship had left the scene. The crew has safely returned to shore on March 22, 2013. 




















According to the captain, Mr. Ph&#7843;i estimates the cost of repair the ship and the loss of sea catches can amount to a few dozen thousands of USD.

There have been 4 incidents taken place in March around Hoàng Sa (Paracels); the two Vetnamese fishing boats were chased away earlier this month was widely reported by China&#8217;s media. Mr. Ph&#7843;i&#8217;s ship QNg 96382 was one of these two ships, which were chased away on March 13.

Two days earlier, March 11, two another boats, also from Quang Ngai, faced the same situation. Bui Tan Thanh, the captain of the QNg 96679 TS boat, said when his boat, with 18 fishermen on board, was operating off *Linh Con Island*, a part of Hoang Sa, a Chinese ship appeared and scared his boat away by using hose reels to spray water into his vessel. The Chinese ship was escorted by a Chinese marine police boat that used a loudspeaker to deliver a warning in Vietnamese that the fishing boat had to leave the sea area, Thanh said.

Le Khoi, the owner of another boat, said a *Chinese ship* had sprayed water through hose reels into his boat, causing the cabin&#8217;s window to be broken. The crew of the boat had to pump water out and sailed as fast as possible towards Ly Son Island, Khoi said.

On March 17, the fishing boat QNg 50949 Captain Bùi V&#259;n Trung was boarded by the CMS personel and the boat was ransacked and the sea catches were stolen.

It is so amazing about the courage of these Vietnamese fishermen to put their lives at the mercy of China&#8217;s naval forces in order to make a living for their families and also to defend the national sovereignty.

*These escalations and the use of lethal force by the Chinese naval forces *were initially reported by the state news media Ti&#7873;n Phong; however, the coverage was taken down 8 hours later without any explanation.


China's Naval Forces Shot At Vietnamese Fishing Boat At Paracels; Vietnam's Media Censored To Report Incident - The medical and societal journal of a vitreo-retinal surgeon. | Eye Dr DeLengocky


----------



## Viet

peaceful rise of China?

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Ayush

feel sad for the boat owners...their livelihood is affected..

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Hellraiser007

Viet said:


> peaceful rise of China?



Arrest those guys who shot at the Vietnamese boat 

So that an inquiry can be conducted.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Viet

Ayush said:


> feel sad for the boat owners...their livelihood is affected..


Chinese love to play the victim card in the Senkaku island dispute. But in the SC sea, they are rude and agressive, especially against Vietnam and Philippines.



Hellraiser007 said:


> *Arrest *those guys who shot at the Vietnamese boat
> So that an inquiry can be conducted.


Chinese come with big guns. Big bully.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Hellraiser007

Viet said:


> Chinese come with big guns. Big bully.



I think protesting at the embassies and massive propaganda will do the trick, internationalize the issue through media, Since China is a signatory of UNCLOS.

Chinese CCP is afraid of protests

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## xuxu1457

welcome&#65292; China should drive away illegal fishing boats, 
by the way, China Maritime Surveillance is not exist before March, not navy, but Chinese maritime police


----------



## Viet

Hellraiser007 said:


> I think protesting at the embassies and massive propaganda will do the trick, internationalize the issue through media, Since China is a signatory of *UNCLOS*.


Vietnam government is committed to a peaceful solution, and wishes international mediation, while China opposes any steps involving other nations and insists on bilateral negotiation.

Their strategy is clear: China wants to subjugate smaller and weaker nations by its overwhelming power. Its phrase of "a peaceful rise" is just a cheap rhetoric.

As for UNCLOS, China does not respect VN´s 200 nautical miles, but demands VN to respect its own. They are *clown*. 


Hellraiser007 said:


> I
> Chinese CCP is afraid of *protests *


If VN government´s strategy of a peaceful approach fails, you will see massive protests in the country.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## itaskol

Hellraiser007 said:


> Chinese CCP is afraid of protests


maybe vietnam CCP is afraid of protests.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

xuxu1457 said:


> welcome&#65292; China should drive away illegal fishing boats,
> by the way, *China *Maritime Surveillance is not exist before March, not navy, but Chinese maritime police


What ever you call them: they are all government controlled vessels. You play a policy of intimidation, just count the numbers of military drills you carry out in the SC sea.

As for China´s illegal fishing boats in our waters, don´t cry if we are going to act tough now.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## qinglong-china

The boat went our seas and provoke, then portray himself as a victim. Too mean


----------



## Viet

itaskol said:


> maybe vietnam CCP is afraid of protests.


Street protests are not welcome, neither in VN nor in China. BTW I can post here some pictures of Vietnamese protests in overseas, so you can enjoy.





> "...
> Vietnamese government adheres to the principle of good neighborhood, a policy of &#8220;16 ch&#7919; vàng, 4 t&#7889;t&#8221;, enunciated by PRC and Secretary General of Communist Party of China (CPC) *Ji&#257;ng Zémín* to the Vietnamese communist (CPV) leaders in 2000. As Vietnam and China share the same communist ideals and are led by the Communist Parties, Vietnam has accepted the principle of CPC being the big brother to CPV."
> 
> Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...mese-fishing-boat-paracels.html#ixzz2OXMAQxZ1


----------



## xuxu1457

Viet said:


> What ever you call them: they are all government controlled vessels. You play a policy of intimidation, just count the numbers of military drills you carry out in the SC sea.
> 
> As for China´s illegal fishing boats in our waters, don´t cry if we are going to act tough now.



Its very common things, VN should familiar with this, Fishery ship 308 drivered VN QNg 96679(with 10 tons of illegal fishing tuna) at March 13, after Discourage invalid&#65292;1239 Enforcement vessel used water cannons.
VN Fishing boats should be careful, not catch fish at China's exclusive economic zone&#65292;
or call for help from VN navy or escape quickly

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## john.mccainn

just another vietnam ccp propaganda.
next pls....

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Viet said:


> As for China´s* illegal fishing boats in our waters, don´t cry if we are going to act tough now.*



LOL. A pot calling the kettle black. Didn't the article said that Paracel is China occupied territory.



> Hoàng Sa (Paracels) islands were invaded by Chinese forces in 1974 and have been occupied ever since even though Vietnam has the legal and historical evidences of its sovereignty. China has refused to negociate the occupation.



Beside the point, Illegal fishing must be eradicated & I approve of the Chinese decision albeit a little to drastic for my taste. If you must know the Vietnamese (&other SEA countries) also have a habit of entering other country water. 

* Indonesia to release 33 Vietnamese fishermen*

| VNS | February 07, 2013 03:02 PM

Indonesia releases 33 Vietnamese Fishermen ahead of Lunar New Year - YouTube

Thirty-three Vietnamese fishermen detained for entering Indonesia&#8217;s territorial waters illegally will be released to enable them return home for the upcoming Tet (Lunar New Year) holidays, authorities in West Kalimanan Province have said.

The Vietnamese Embassy in Indonesia sent a working delegation to visit West Kalimanan from February 3-6.

The delegation asked the provincial authorities to work with the Vietnamese fishermen who&#8217;d been sentenced and imprisoned in Pontianak, the capital of West Kalimanan, on the basis of humanitarian considerations. The province was asked to consider releasing those who had behaved well under detention.

Cornelis M.H., Governor of West Kalimatan, praised the efforts of the Vietnamese delegation and said he would support expediting the work of relevant agencies to release another 15 fishermen soon.

*According to West Kalimatan authorities, 54 Vietnamese fishing boats have been caught since 2009 and about 260 fishermen sentenced for violating territorial waters, and most of them were imprisoned in Pontianak. *

Indonesia to release 33 Vietnamese fishermen | DTiNews - Dan Tri International, the news gateway of Vietnam

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Viet

Vietnamese protests in overseas







Vietnamese democracy activists protest in front of the Chinese embassy in Ottawa. (Wei Wu/The Epoch Times)






Vietnamese Protest Against Chinese Aggression in Melbourne, Australia






Vietnamese Protest Against Chinese Aggression in Houston, TX






Vietnamese Protest Against Chinese Aggression in San Francisco, CA






Vietnamese Protest Against Chinese Aggression In Seattle, WA






Vietnamese Protest Against Chinese Aggression In Oslo, Norway.






Vietnamese Protest Against Chinese Aggression In Germany






Vietnamese Protest China in Czech Republic

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## xuxu1457

10 Vietnamese fishermen rescued near China's Sansha - Xinhua | English.news.cn
*10 Vietnamese fishermen rescued near China's Sansha*
English.news.cn 2012-08-10 20:46:50 
GUANGZHOU, Aug. 10 (Xinhua) -- Ten Vietnamese fishermen were rescued Thursday after their boat ran aground near China's newly-founded city of Sansha in the South China Sea, China's maritime authorities said Friday.

The South China Sea Rescue Bureau said it received a report early Thursday morning that Vietnamese-flagged fishing boat QNG92443 ran aground in waters of the Xisha islands following an engine failure.

The ship was located at the Langhua Reef, about 60 nautical miles south of Yongxing Island, where the government seat of Sansha is stationed.

The bureau said it immediately dispatched a vehicle to the site and rescued 10 Vietnamese fishermen, who were found floating at sea on pontoons, at 3 p.m.

The fishermen have been sent to Yongxing Island, the bureau added.

China started forming the government of Sansha in mid-July. It is a prefecture-level city that administers the Xisha, Zhongsha and Nansha islands and the surrounding waters in the South China Sea.
*Philippines arrests 12 Vietnamese fishermen*
Philippines arrests 12 Vietnamese fishermen
MANILA, Philippines (AP) &#8212; Philippine officials say 12 Vietnamese fishermen have been arrested for poaching endangered marine turtles, black corals and reef fishes in southern Philippines waters.
Philippine fisheries bureau head Asis Perez said Wednesday the Vietnamese and their Malaysian-flagged fishing boat were apprehended Monday by coast guard and fisheries bureau operatives 23 nautical miles (43 kilometers) off Jolo Island's Pangutaran township.
The coast guard says inside the boat were 50 pieces of dead marine turtles, five bundles of black corals and reef fishes including the high-value but vanishing Napoleon wrasse.
Perez says three other foreign fishing boats spotted in the same area managed to flee toward Malaysia.
He says administrative and criminal cases are being prepared against the fishermen.

*108 Vietnamese fishermen arrested by Tailand*
108 Vietnamese fishermen arrested - The Nation




Naval and other Thai authorities yesterday arrested 108 Vietnamese fishermen aboard 10 foreign trawlers that violated Thailand's territorial waters in the upper Gulf of Thailand.

The three-day and two-night operation, which started on Thursday, was prompted by complaints filed by Thai fishermen that dozens of Vietnamese trawlers had encroached on Thai waters north of Koh Samet to catch giant cuttlefish.

Royal Navy Vice Admiral Chumphol Wongwekin led the operation in conjunction with five other Thai agencies, encircling the foreign trawlers that were scattered over some 20 nautical miles.

On Friday, Thai authorities, with the help of three warships and two combat helicopters, managed to arrest 108 Vietnamese aboard 10 trawlers, while 10 other foreign vessels managed to escape.
*China releases 21 Vietnamese fishermen*
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2012-04/20/content_15103922.htm
PLS search "Vietnamese fishermen" on google, you will find.........

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

john.mccainn said:


> just another vietnam ccp *propaganda*.
> next pls....


You call propaganda, but we call "improving picture of Vietnam as a peaceful nation". 



Reashot Xigwin said:


> LOL. A pot calling the kettle black. Didn't the article said that Paracel is China occupied territory.
> ...


Come on, Indonesia should support Vietnam. If Vietnam fails, then you will be the next victim. Don´t be naive.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Ayush

really,they are protesting.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

Protestors shout anti-China slogans and hold banners as they march towards the *Chinese embassy *in downtown Hanoi on December 9, 2012

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

Ayush said:


> really,they are *protesting*.



Yes, even in Japan!






Vietnamese in Japan rally against China

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Fsjal

Viet said:


> You call propaganda, but we call "improving picture of Vietnam as a peaceful nation".
> 
> 
> Come on,* Indonesia should support Vietnam*. If Vietnam fails, then you will be the next victim. Don´t be naive.



I don't think that's possible. Indonesia has good relations with China.
----------------------------------------------
I think it's good China reacted, but why shoot the fishermen, too extreme. Anyway, the boat was near Chinese controlled islands.


----------



## xuxu1457

Fsjal said:


> I don't think that's possible. Indonesia has good relations with China.
> ----------------------------------------------
> I think it's good China reacted, but why shoot the fishermen, too extreme. Anyway, the boat was near Chinese controlled islands.


shoot with Water cannons, not true Gun




just like

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Ayush

Viet said:


> Yes, even in Japan!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vietnamese in Japan rally against China



best of luck to you.

we are allies.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## john.mccainn

xuxu1457 said:


> shoot with Water cannons, not true Gun
> 
> 
> 
> 
> just like



apparently the Vietnamese were so scared of water. lol


----------



## twocents

Fsjal said:


> I don't think that's possible. Indonesia has good relations with China.
> ----------------------------------------------
> I think it's good China reacted, but why shoot the fishermen, too extreme. Anyway, the boat was near Chinese controlled islands.



The same boat was found fishing illegally in Chinese waters on March 13 and was chased away by China Marine Surveillance. A week later (March 20) it returned. The second time around warning flares were shot over the boat and apparently one of the flares landed on top of the the boat's awning leading to a small fire. The news was carried on a Chinese web site. Here's the link----http://lt.cjdby.net/thread-1569995-1-1.html


----------



## +4vsgorillas-Apebane

auspice said:


> No worries. These delusional shameless thieves are just testing their junks whether they could last the distance. You know, typical low-quality made in China products never last long.
> 
> They are just afraid to settle the issue in the international court because they knew that they are going to lose the fight and get embarrass in the international community.



Ha
Only small insignificant countries need to answer to the international community. In my opinion, sending naval ships is a waste when a chicken is all we need. We go to the islands, land and kill a chicken in front of the camera. Watch the monkeys flee....

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

Chinese are sea pirates, robbed our Islands, chinese go to hell.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Yukio

No one likes a big bully and arrogant neighbor

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## EastSea

same relation was in the past.







Russian don't forget 1969, PLA attacked Russia border. 
In 1965, the Soviets had 195,000 soldiers on the Sino-Russo border. By 1971, Soviet strength had increased from 13 to 44 Divisions, with 1000 supporting aircraft. * 658,000 Soviet Red Army soldiers faced over 1.5 million Chinese of the Peoples Liberation Army.

On March 2nd, 1969 the Sino-Soviet Border Conflict began with 9 months of combat.


----------



## john.mccainn

@ Yukio
cmon japs dont forgot your history lesson ok
who do you think that invaded all of south east asia ?


----------



## Viet

@Yukio

Great to see someone from Japan. You should post more on this forum. We must join force to counter China.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

john.mccainn said:


> @ Yukio
> cmon japs dont forgot your history lesson ok
> who do you think that invaded all of south east asia ?



Japan and US will punish you again, idiot chinese are aggressors.


----------



## john.mccainn

EastSea said:


> Japan and US will punish you again, idiot chinese are aggressors.



we'll deal with them later. 
but first we will give vietnam some lesson.
Do not so cocky when you do not carry big stick.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

Viet said:


> Chinas Naval Forces Shot At Vietnamese Fishing Boat At Paracels; Vietnams Media Censored To Report Incident


I saw it in Vietnam news , it 's not censored in Vietnam.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## john.mccainn

Soryu said:


> I saw it in Vietnam news , *it 's not censored in Vietnam*.



hahahaha at the moment i saw that claim, i laughed so hard.





damn you Vietnamese so freakin funny than indian.
some small example here 
Internet censorship in Vietnam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | Vietnam censorship concern grows
http://cpj.org/reports/2012/09/vietnams-press-freedom-shrinks-despite-open-economy.php


----------



## EastSea

*Polish judge to represent China in Philippine arbitration proceedings*
2013-03-25 01:06:51 GMT2013-03-25 09:06:51(Beijing Time) SINA.com






Polish judge Stanislaw Pawlak will represent China in the arbitral proceedings initiated by the Philippines over the territorial dispute in the South China Sea, a senior Philippine government official said on Sunday, March 24.
Pawlak was appointed last week by the International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea (ITLOS) president, Japanese judge Shunji Yanai, after China "failed to designate its own representative within the 60-day deadline established by the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS)".
The next step will be for Yanai to nominate within 30 days the 3 remaining members of the arbitration panel that will examine the case, the official added.
German judge and former ITLOS President Rudy Wolfrum was picked to represent the Philippines after Manila presented its Notification and Statement of Claim in the UN arbitration on January 22.
China on February 19 officially rejected the proceedings, saying that the Philippine government had compiled a "factually flawed and false" claim and claiming it has sufficient historical and jurisprudential evidence to support its sovereignty over the South China Sea.
In accordance with this policy, Beijing refused to nominate its representative in the panel, forcing ITLOS to make the choice.
UNCLOS establishes that once the 5 members are confirmed, they will hear the arguments of both parties and decide on the merit of the case.
(Agencies)

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cnleio

I had said, here say again. 

China should close our border ports between North Vietnam and China, forbid border trades and limit migration movement,restrict exports to Vietnam, let vietnamese to enjoy good quality and higher price "made in Japan" and "made in USA".

Increase imports from other SouthEast Asia countries, build high-speed railway connect with Thailand,Cambodia and Laos,extending to Singapore. If Vietnamese wanna jump out to against China, we should use all economic sanctions to punish them and distribute benefits which Vietnam get from China development to other SouthEast Asia countries.

What China need to do, just make bad environments around Vietnam and let them keep crying. If Vietnam shoot first, We r in.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cnleio

self-delete

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

xuxu1457 said:


> Its very common things, VN should familiar with this, Fishery ship 308 drivered VN QNg 96679(with 10 tons of illegal fishing tuna) at March 13, after Discourage invalid&#65292;1239 Enforcement vessel used water cannons.
> VN Fishing boats should be careful, not catch fish at China's exclusive economic zone&#65292;
> or call for help from VN navy or escape quickly


Where's China's exclusive economic zone?  Did you know what is EEZ? 


john.mccainn said:


> just another vietnam ccp propaganda.
> next pls....


What's it mean "ccp"? 


Reashot Xigwin said:


> LOL. A pot calling the kettle black. Didn't the article said that Paracel is China occupied territory.
> 
> Beside the point, Illegal fishing must be eradicated & I approve of the Chinese decision albeit a little to drastic for my taste. If you must know the Vietnamese (&other SEA countries) also have a habit of entering other country water.


You occupied it by military force and it'll become your territory!? Hey, another bullshjt from jungle, huh?


Fsjal said:


> I don't think that's possible. Indonesia has good relations with China.
> ----------------------------------------------
> I think it's good China reacted, but why shoot the fishermen, too extreme. Anyway, the boat was near Chinese controlled islands.


They used AK and fire on Vietnamese ships from very long, a drity move when their mouth spoke: "peace, peace..."


john.mccainn said:


> @ Yukio
> cmon japs dont forgot your history lesson ok
> who do you think that invaded all of south east asia ?


huh, what can you do with them? Like lesson in 1939? 



john.mccainn said:


> hahahaha at the moment i saw that claim, i laughed so hard.
> damn you Vietnamese so freakin funny than indian.
> some small example here
> Internet censorship in Vietnam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | Vietnam censorship concern grows
> http://cpj.org/reports/2012/09/vietnams-press-freedom-shrinks-despite-open-economy.php


BBC and Wiki? Did you guys said that western propaganda tool,don't you? 
And did you know Vienamese?


cnleio said:


> I had said, here say again.
> 
> China should close our border ports between North Vietnam and China, forbid border trades and limit migration movement,restrict exports to Vietnam, let vietnamese to enjoy good quality and higher price "made in Japan" and "made in USA".
> 
> Increase imports from other SouthEast Asia countries, build high-speed railway connect with Thailand,Cambodia and Laos,extending to Singapore. If Vietnamese wanna jump out to against China, we should use all economic sanctions to punish them and distribute benefits which Vietnam get from China development to other SouthEast Asia countries.
> 
> What China need to do, just make bad environments around Vietnam and let them keep crying. If Vietnam shoot first, We r in.


Do it, please, we just wait for this stupid move ...


----------



## EastSea

cnleio said:


> I had said, here say again.
> 
> China should close our border ports between North Vietnam and China, forbid border trades and limit migration movement,restrict exports to Vietnam, let vietnamese to enjoy good quality and higher price "made in Japan" and "made in USA".
> 
> Increase imports from other SouthEast Asia countries, build high-speed railway connect with Thailand,Cambodia and Laos,extending to Singapore. If Vietnamese wanna jump out to against China, we should use all economic sanctions to punish them and distribute benefits which Vietnam get from China development to other SouthEast Asia countries.
> 
> What China need to do, just make bad environments around Vietnam and let them keep crying. If Vietnam shoot first, We r in.



Just do it, no talking and talking. we can stop deficit from China, very good.
build high-speed railway is not benifit, it don't help you to control ASEAN, wet dream.


----------



## cnleio

These Vietnamese still laugh here, and never see the problem of Vietnamese themselves.

For current Vietnamese government, the big trouble is not China. Fatal troubles for VCP and their government r those ppl who waving the old ROV's yellow flags living abroad, and pro-democracy protests in Vietnam. China never kill VCP, but these Vietnamese someday might bury VCP's government.

Ur VCP need China, coz they need supports from Chinese comrades.Or they will die.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

cnleio said:


> These Vietnamese still laugh here, and never see the problem of Vietnamese themselves.
> 
> For current Vietnamese government, the big trouble is not China. Fatal troubles for VCP and their government r those ppl who waving the old ROV's yellow flags living abroad, and pro-democracy protests in Vietnam. China never kill VCP, but these Vietnamese someday might bury VCP's government.


Yellow flags is their memory flag which they bring along when they lose in war, so they used it.
Vietnam has it problem, and we'll solve it with peace. lol

And you should do like you said, do it, don't just bullshjt!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## john.mccainn

Soryu said:


> BBC and Wiki? Did you guys said that western propaganda tool,don't you?
> And did you know Vienamese?



Oops i forgot the fact that Vietnam were Democracy.
silly me 

Vietnam latest news - Thanh Nien Daily | Trap of censorship
VIETNAM Internet censorship tightening in Vietnam - Asia News
vietnam-jails-bloggers-for-online-dissent

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cnleio

Soryu said:


> Yellow flags is their memory flag which they bring along when they lose in war, so they used it.
> Vietnam has it problem, and we'll solve it with peace. lol


LOL, their memory flay is still illegal in VCP's Vietnam today, ur police will arrest them ASAP and throw into the prison. 
VCP welcome red China more than those ROV's survivor, they really r the enemy for VCP and Vietnam government. China never kill VCP, but they will only accept Republic of Vietnam (The South Vietnam).


----------



## Soryu

cnleio said:


> LOL, their memory flay is still illegal in VCP's Vietnam today, ur police will arrest them ASAP and throw into the prison.
> VCP welcome red China more than those ROV's survivor, they really r the enemy for VCP and Vietnam government. China never kill VCP, but they will.


You said like you know them, huh. So what did they do, can you say some shjt? 
From bullshjt like stop export to Vietnam, stop travel, close border, all speak hero keybroad, and now, he said like he know internal issue of Vietnam...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## john.mccainn

Soryu said:


> You said like you know them, huh. So what did they do, can you say some shjt?
> From bullshjt like stop export to Vietnam, stop travel, close border, all speak hero keybroad, and now, he said like he know internal issue of Vietnam...



so so scared already huh.
talks about bullshit stuff,there is no way china can surpass vietnam on that fields, trust me i knew
A pot calling the kettle black

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cnleio

Soryu said:


> You said like you know them, huh. So what did they do, can you say some shjt?
> From bullshjt like stop export to Vietnam, stop travel, close border, all speak hero keybroad, and now, he said like he know internal issue of Vietnam...


Now kiss ur yellow memory flag. Look, how those ppl "like" VCP's government...











I said ROV's flag still illegal in Vietnam coz i have been in North of Vietnam twice, i had asked local Vietnamese ppl.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## EastSea

Don't worry, we have another flag from time of Nguyen Dynasty 1803 - 1885 years. It include both Red and Yellow color.






http://beat.vn/forum/showthread.php?790661-Buon-Chuyen-Co-Viet-Nam-Qua-Cac-Thoi-Dai

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Soryu

cnleio said:


> Now kiss ur yellow memory flag. Look, how those ppl "like" VCP's government...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I said ROV's flag still illegal in Vietnam coz i have been in North of Vietnam twice, i had asked local Vietnamese ppl.


You just ignore my question and continue show off your stupid on this kind of stuff again, and again, cnleio.
I did not said it legal, because we must solve issue of war from past. Can you wave ROC's flag like legal and official flag in mainland.?

What's stupid troll post, go back your topic in China defense box cnleio, Mod will wipe out bullshjt that we talking anyway, so stop it, chinese warrior keybroad!


----------



## john.mccainn

EastSea said:


> Don't worry, we have another flag from time of Nguyen Dynasty 1803 - 1885 years. It include both Red and Yellow color.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/URL]



i bet if Japanese see that flag they will though you were their vassal state.
lol
just paint the yellow with white and add the little sun flare strip

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## sweetgrape

cnleio said:


> Now kiss ur yellow memory flag. Look, how those ppl "like" VCP's government...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I said ROV's flag still illegal in Vietnam coz i have been in North of Vietnam twice, i had asked local Vietnamese ppl.


We don't care about these so-called demonstration, I think their government are more nervous about these, hehe!!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

john.mccainn said:


> i bet if Japanese see that flag they will though you were their vassal state.
> lol
> just paint the yellow with white and add the little sun flare strip



You are wrong, Japan's flag as a sun-disc flag was adopted as the national flag for merchant ships under Proclamation No. 57 of Meiji 3 *(issued on February 27, 1870)*
*Great Nam Emperor's flag has been created from 1802 *by Warlord Nguyen Anh, 1803 became National flag when Nguyen Anh proclaimed himself as Gia Long Emperor of Vietnam. Japanese copied the idea from Vietnamese. *In this matter Japan is vassal state of Vietnam. *

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## john.mccainn

EastSea said:


> You are wrong, Japan's flag as a sun-disc flag was adopted as the national flag for merchant ships under Proclamation No. 57 of Meiji 3 *(issued on February 27, 1870)*
> *Great Nam Emperor's flag has been created from 1802 *by Warlord Nguyen Anh, 1803 became National flag when Nguyen Anh proclaimed himself as Gia Long Emperor of Vietnam. Japanese copied the idea from Vietnamese. *In this matter Japan is vassal state of Vietnam. *



ow ow bad dog bad dog 
now new claim yup the whole world belong to vietnam no doubt about it.
cheers.
now you broke your master heart did you aware that.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

john.mccainn said:


> ow ow bad dog bad dog
> now new claim yup the whole world belong to vietnam no doubt about it.
> 
> cheers.



He he, you are bad owl, bad owl bad owl, bad owl .

Vietnam flag (Nguyen Dynasty) 1802.
Japan's flag 1870, too late. I's different, idiot boy

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Malaya

*Polish judge to represent China in PH arbitration*






MANILA, Philippines - Polish judge Stanislaw Pawlak will represent China in the arbitral proceedings initiated by the Philippines over the territorial dispute in the West Philippine Sea (South China Sea), a senior government official told Rappler on Sunday, March 24.

Pawlak was appointed last week by the International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea (ITLOS) president, Japanese judge Shunji Yanai, after China failed to designate its own representative within the 60-day deadline established by the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS).

The next step will be for Yanai to nominate within 30 days the 3 remaining members of the arbitration panel that will examine the case, the official added.

German judge and former ITLOS President Rudy Wolfrum was picked to represent the Philippines after Manila presented its Notification and Statement of Claim in the UN arbitration on January 22.

China on February 19 officially rejected the proceedings, saying that the Philippine government had compiled a "factually flawed and false" claim and claiming it has sufficient historical and jurisprudential evidence to support its sovereignty over the whole South China Sea.

In accordance with this policy, Beijing refused to nominate its representative in the panel, forcing ITLOS to make the choice.

UNCLOS establishes that once the 5 members are confirmed, they will hear the arguments of both parties and decide on the merit of the case.

Over the past two years Manila has complained about Beijing's increasing assertiveness in enforcing its claims, particularly over areas believed to be rich in oil and natural gas reserves.

China's stance led to a standoff last year with the Philippines over rich fishing grounds around Scarborough Shoal, a rocky outcrop much closer to the Philippine coast than to China's shores. - with reports from Carlos Santamaria/Rappler.com

Polish judge to represent China in PH arbitration

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## zxmint

Rechoice said:


> *Obama to raise maritime tussles at Asia summits*
> 
> 
> 
> US President Barack Obama (R) speaks with Brunei's Sultan Hassanal Bolkiah during a meeting in the Oval office of the White House
> on March 12, 2013 in Washington, DC. Obama pledged Tuesday to bring up...
> more
> 
> 
> US President Barack Obama pledged Tuesday to bring up maritime disputes boiling between China and its neighbors at the US-ASEAN and East Asia summits in Brunei in October.
> Brunei has already said that it will pursue a binding code of conduct among competing claimants in the South China Sea during its ASEAN chairmanship this year. China insists disputes are a bilateral matter between individual nations.
> "We will be discussing maritime issues," Obama said after meeting Brunei's Sultan Hassanal Bolkiah in the Oval Office, referring to the two summits, which he is expected to attend.
> "Obviously, there have been a lot of tensions in the region around maritime issues and His Majesty has shown great leadership in order to bring the countries together to make sure that everybody's abiding by basic precepts of rule of law and international standards."
> Obama said the summits would also be a good venue to discuss commerce, economic and other diplomatic issues impacting a region to which he has "pivoted" US diplomatic and military resources.
> ASEAN members Vietnam, the Philippines, Malaysia and Brunei, and non-member Taiwan have claims to parts of the South China Sea, one of the world's most important shipping lanes which is believed to be rich in fossil fuels.
> Simmering tensions over the issue have risen in the past two years, with the Philippines and Vietnam accusing China of becoming increasingly aggressive in staking its claims.
> The anger erupted during Cambodia's 2012 ASEAN chairmanship which was marked by sharp regional discord over the affair.
> Efforts to secure a legally binding code of conduct involving ASEAN and China have floundered for years amid Beijing's insistence on handling disputes bilaterally with individual countries, while ASEAN wants to speak as a group.
> The president also noted in his remarks that the United States would take part later this year in the first ASEAN-US-China joint exercise, to test how Pacific military powers can work together on disaster relief.
> Obama said the maneuvers in June would be able to show how the rival militaries can "help people in times of need and to try to help avoid conflict rather than start conflict."
> On a lighter note, Obama also expressed admiration for the Sultan's piloting skills, after he flew his own jumbo jet into the United States on Monday.
> "I think he's probably the only head of state in the world who flies a 747 himself," Obama said.
> Obama became the first US president to attend the East Asia summit in Bali in 2011 and also took part in the 2012 meeting in Phnom Penh, Cambodia.


Topple your own "soft, incompetent" communist government first and then knees down in front of the Americans. Isn't it what the "elites" of Vietnam thinking when protesting China's invasion in appearance?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

EastSea said:


> He he, you are bad owl, bad owl bad owl, bad owl .
> 
> Vietnam flag (Nguyen Dynasty) 1802.
> Japan's flag 1870, too late. I's different, idiot boy


If he want be a dog, let him do that. Mod will wipe out that idiot, anyway.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

zxmint said:


> Topple your own "soft, incompetent" communist government first and then knees down in front of the Americans. Isn't it what the "elites" of Vietnam thinking when protesting China's invasion in appearance?



China' Mao and Deng have been kneed first 1972 before Nixon to normalization relation with Uncle Sam, he he, kid. Americans and Chinese ran away 1973 and 1979.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## zxmint

EastSea said:


> China' Mao and Deng have been kneed first 1972 before Nixon to normalization relation with Uncle Sam, he he, kid. Americans and Chinese ran away 1973 and 1979.



You should know the difference between toppling a government of a big country like China and toppling a government of a much smaller one like Vietnam. Not to say the opposite power in Vietnam is much stronger than that in China. BTW, it is really unwise to compare relationships between two big guys and the relationship between one big guy and a dwarf. Don't feel bad and face to the reality my boy. The worst thing for you Viets is the "Big Viet Dream". There is nothing shame to admit you live in a small country.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## zxmint

Malaya said:


> *Polish judge to represent China in PH arbitration*
> 
> 
> MANILA, Philippines - Polish judge Stanislaw Pawlak will represent China in the arbitral proceedings initiated by the Philippines over the territorial dispute in the West Philippine Sea (South China Sea), a senior government official told Rappler on Sunday, March 24.
> 
> Pawlak was appointed last week by the International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea (ITLOS) president, Japanese judge Shunji Yanai, after China failed to designate its own representative within the 60-day deadline established by the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS).
> 
> The next step will be for Yanai to nominate within 30 days the 3 remaining members of the arbitration panel that will examine the case, the official added.
> 
> German judge and former ITLOS President Rudy Wolfrum was picked to represent the Philippines after Manila presented its Notification and Statement of Claim in the UN arbitration on January 22.
> 
> China on February 19 officially rejected the proceedings, saying that the Philippine government had compiled a "factually flawed and false" claim and claiming it has sufficient historical and jurisprudential evidence to support its sovereignty over the whole South China Sea.
> 
> In accordance with this policy, Beijing refused to nominate its representative in the panel, forcing ITLOS to make the choice.
> 
> UNCLOS establishes that once the 5 members are confirmed, they will hear the arguments of both parties and decide on the merit of the case.
> 
> Over the past two years Manila has complained about Beijing's increasing assertiveness in enforcing its claims, particularly over areas believed to be rich in oil and natural gas reserves.
> 
> China's stance led to a standoff last year with the Philippines over rich fishing grounds around Scarborough Shoal, a rocky outcrop much closer to the Philippine coast than to China's shores. - with reports from Carlos Santamaria/Rappler.com



It does not have to be so tedious, really. Just be a little more straightforward, claim that China is an invader. No idiots would expect fairness from the so called "International Court". One day US take charge of the world, one day those international organizations are its tools.
Honestly, Chinese people do not care how you are against them at all. It just like in a flock of lions, when a strange male lion starts to fight against the old lion King, all of the females would stand at the side of the old guy. It could only be changed when the old guy dies or close to die.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Bob Ong

Malaya said:


> *Polish judge to represent China in PH arbitration*
> 
> MANILA, Philippines - Polish judge Stanislaw Pawlak will represent China in the arbitral proceedings initiated by the Philippines over the territorial dispute in the West Philippine Sea (South China Sea), a senior government official told Rappler on Sunday, March 24.
> 
> Pawlak was appointed last week by the International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea (ITLOS) president, Japanese judge Shunji Yanai, after China failed to designate its own representative within the 60-day deadline established by the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS).
> 
> The next step will be for Yanai to nominate within 30 days the 3 remaining members of the arbitration panel that will examine the case, the official added.
> 
> German judge and former ITLOS President Rudy Wolfrum was picked to represent the Philippines after Manila presented its Notification and Statement of Claim in the UN arbitration on January 22.
> 
> China on February 19 officially rejected the proceedings, saying that the Philippine government had compiled a "factually flawed and false" claim and claiming it has sufficient historical and jurisprudential evidence to support its sovereignty over the whole South China Sea.
> 
> In accordance with this policy, Beijing refused to nominate its representative in the panel, forcing ITLOS to make the choice.
> 
> UNCLOS establishes that once the 5 members are confirmed, they will hear the arguments of both parties and decide on the merit of the case.
> 
> Over the past two years Manila has complained about Beijing's increasing assertiveness in enforcing its claims, particularly over areas believed to be rich in oil and natural gas reserves.
> 
> China's stance led to a standoff last year with the Philippines over rich fishing grounds around Scarborough Shoal, a rocky outcrop much closer to the Philippine coast than to China's shores. - with reports from Carlos Santamaria/Rappler.com


Let the legal truth to come out.

Let us see who do things contrary to what is a decent in the international community who is thirst of wealth and power. 

Good luck.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## zxmint

Bob Ong said:


> Let the legal truth to come out.
> 
> Let us see who do things contrary to what is a decent in the international community who is thirst of wealth and power.
> 
> Good luck.



Yeah, good luck. We are looking forward to being accused as invaders by the "International Court" and let's see what actual actions could be taken.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## EastSea

zxmint said:


> You should know the difference between toppling a government of a big country like China and toppling a government of a much smaller one like Vietnam. Not to say the opposite power in Vietnam is much stronger than that in China. BTW, it is really unwise to compare relationships between two big guys and the relationship between one big guy and a dwarf. Don't feel bad and face to the reality my boy. The worst thing for you Viets is the "Big Viet Dream". There is nothing shame to admit you live in a small country.



the difference between China and USA is that Uncle Sam control Taiwan, but China dare not do nothing to unitify the country. It's the difference, kid.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## peaceful

EastSea said:


> the difference between China and USA is that Uncle Sam control Taiwan, but China dare not do nothing to unitify the country. It's the difference, kid.



last time when I checked, your loser nation was controlled by different countries for thousands years. 

one day loser, always loser.


----------



## john.mccainn

EastSea said:


> the difference between China and USA is that Uncle Sam control Taiwan, but *China dare not do nothing to unitify the country*. It's the difference, kid.



thank you for your supports for acknowledge Taiwan as part of China.
you should do the same for parcel and spratly islands tho.
hopes Philippines do same as like you do.
cheers

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

peaceful said:


> last time when I checked, your loser nation was controlled by different countries for thousands years.
> 
> one day loser, always loser.



China was controlled by Mongolian, Manchus, Japan, Britain, Portugal until 1999. You are lucky when you are separated from mainland China. Taiwanese are winner 



john.mccainn said:


> thank you for your supports for acknowledge Taiwan as part of China.
> you should do the same for parcel and spratly islands tho.
> hopes Philippines do same as like you do.
> cheers



Taiwan in reality regained their Independence soon, it was Formosa Republic in the past, just the name different Taiwan Republic, cheers.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## HongWu

Viet said:


> Vietnam government is committed to a peaceful solution, and wishes international mediation, while China opposes any steps involving other nations and insists on bilateral negotiation.
> 
> Their strategy is clear: China wants to subjugate smaller and weaker nations by its overwhelming power. Its phrase of "a peaceful rise" is just a cheap rhetoric.
> 
> As for UNCLOS, China does not respect VN´s 200 nautical miles, but demands VN to respect its own. They are *clown*.


 We are your masters for 1000 years. Now you know why. As soon as we open fire you fall to your knees. Stay out of the South China Sea unless you want our tanks to pay a visit to Hanoi.


----------



## HongWu

Malaya said:


> *Polish judge to represent China in PH arbitration*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MANILA, Philippines - Polish judge Stanislaw Pawlak will represent China in the arbitral proceedings initiated by the Philippines over the territorial dispute in the West Philippine Sea (South China Sea), a senior government official told Rappler on Sunday, March 24.
> 
> Pawlak was appointed last week by the International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea (ITLOS) president, Japanese judge Shunji Yanai, after China failed to designate its own representative within the 60-day deadline established by the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS).
> 
> The next step will be for Yanai to nominate within 30 days the 3 remaining members of the arbitration panel that will examine the case, the official added.
> 
> German judge and former ITLOS President Rudy Wolfrum was picked to represent the Philippines after Manila presented its Notification and Statement of Claim in the UN arbitration on January 22.
> 
> China on February 19 officially rejected the proceedings, saying that the Philippine government had compiled a "factually flawed and false" claim and claiming it has sufficient historical and jurisprudential evidence to support its sovereignty over the whole South China Sea.
> 
> In accordance with this policy, Beijing refused to nominate its representative in the panel, forcing ITLOS to make the choice.
> 
> UNCLOS establishes that once the 5 members are confirmed, they will hear the arguments of both parties and decide on the merit of the case.
> 
> Over the past two years Manila has complained about Beijing's increasing assertiveness in enforcing its claims, particularly over areas believed to be rich in oil and natural gas reserves.
> 
> China's stance led to a standoff last year with the Philippines over rich fishing grounds around Scarborough Shoal, a rocky outcrop much closer to the Philippine coast than to China's shores. - with reports from Carlos Santamaria/Rappler.com
> 
> Polish judge to represent China in PH arbitration


It's time to launch our missiles at the tribunal to let them know who's in charge. But admittedly they have a sense of humor appointing a Polish judge to represent China. 

Don't worry Filipinos, we did not forget you. Our navy is doing live fire military exercises right off of your coast!

China runs naval drills off PH shores - Manila Standard Today


----------



## Viet

HongWu said:


> We are your masters for 1000 years. Now you know why. As soon as we open fire you fall to your knees. Stay out of the South China Sea unless you want our *tanks *to pay a visit to Hanoi.



great! you mean your leaders run mad again and send poor brainwashed peasants like you to the front as cannon fodder?





destroyed PLA tanks





PLA prisoners

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## djsjs

Viet said:


> great! you mean your leaders run mad again and send poor brainwashed peasants like you to the front as cannon fodder?
> 
> 
> 
> detroyed PLA tanks
> 
> 
> 
> PLA prisoners


good,you mean Vietnam is strong and we are weak,very good,and i know many Vietnamese have same thought with you.
so lets just swallow it quietly no matter whose tooth is broken down.DO NOT CRY ALL OVER THE WORLD,
it is stupid crying here and there for a country has beat US,China,France....


----------



## Malaya

HongWu said:


> *It's time to launch our missiles at the tribunal to let them know who's in charge.* But admittedly they have a sense of humor appointing a Polish judge to represent China.
> 
> Don't worry Filipinos, we did not forget you. Our navy is doing live fire military exercises right off of your coast!
> 
> China runs naval drills off PH shores - Manila Standard Today


Oh Please enough of threats. Just do it if you can. 

Only the UN international tribunal should decide what is legal and what is illegal. Not China, not the Philippines. Only in this way the dispute can be resolved and world peace through the rule of law be preserved. Don't worry about the Polish judge to represent your country at the Tribunal. I'm sure, he's also an expert.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Malaya

zxmint said:


> It does not have to be so tedious, really. Just be a little more straightforward, claim that China is an invader. No idiots would expect fairness from the so called "International Court". One day US take charge of the world, one day those international organizations are its tools.
> Honestly, Chinese people do not care how you are against them at all. It just like in a flock of lions, when a strange male lion starts to fight against the old lion King, all of the females would stand at the side of the old guy. It could only be changed when the old guy dies or close to die.


China is establishing itself as a major player in the world. If China wants the whole world to listen, she should not bully its neighbors. 

The issue here is not war between nations of unequal powers but fairness and justice. This is a question of sovereignty. If the UN is to be regarded as a viable venue to resolve issues such as this one, then it has to give existing international laws a chance to clear things up regardless of who the claimants are.

The veto being exercised by China in the security council is one of the reasons of your arrogance in world affairs and your recent prosperity made your country an abusive bully.


----------



## terranMarine

A mere Philippines not a member of the security council and no veto right can only be jealous of the 5 permanent members. If that is what you call arrogance and bullies so be it. Better not challenge China or worse things will hit you, Japan is feeling it already

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

djsjs said:


> good,you mean *Vietnam is strong* and we are weak,very good,and i know many Vietnamese have same thought with you.
> so lets just swallow it quietly no matter whose tooth is broken down.DO NOT CRY ALL OVER THE WORLD,
> it is stupid crying here and there for a country has beat US,China,France....


I think you have a problem like many of your countrymen. You like to twist the facts, right and wrong, black and white. My response was primarily for HongWu´s clown with tanks in Hanoi. Vietnam is not a pushover, as Chinese you are suposed to know that. 

As for crying, that´s not fair game China vs Vietnam, so we need help and support from others. No surprise.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## terranMarine

Vietnam is no pushover facing weaker nations. Experience the full might of China and you will just see just how a pushover Vietnam really is.


----------



## Zero_wing

terranMarine said:


> A mere Philippines not a member of the security council and no veto right can only be jealous of the 5 permanent members. If that is what you call arrogance and bullies so be it. Better not challenge China or worse things will hit you, Japan is feeling it already



Please from all the nations you you people made enemies with will make your veto powers is nothing more than paper weight and plus how about the other nations with that same power would they agree to support china please challenging and defeating china like this without the use of arms will be sweet so please threaten us more chewangs racist jerks stunts is like pissing in the wind plus its not a security matter its dispute so no veto powers here oh whats wrong?


----------



## terranMarine

Go cry somewhere else, you are becoming a crybaby here. When will you grow up and talk with reasons among adults here?


----------



## djsjs

Viet said:


> I think you have a problem like many of your countrymen. You like to twist the facts, right and wrong, black and white. My response was primarily for HongWu´s clown with tanks in Hanoi. Vietnam is not a pushover, as Chinese you are suposed to know that. As for crying, that´s not fair game China vs Vietnam, so we need help and support from others. No surprise.


i mean no matter your tank in Beijing or ours in hanoi or what other things happening,lets just keep quiet.haha...
you should know nobody would die for you or us in the world.


----------



## Viet

djsjs said:


> i mean no matter *your tank in Beijing* or ours in hanoi or what other things happening,lets just keep quiet.haha...
> you should know nobody would die for you or us in the world.


Our tanks in Beijing? you joke!

Maybe you can answer the question which was raised some tine ago by me, but no Chinese wants to answer: In the long common Sino-VN history over 2,000 years, why China has chosen Vietnam for expansion, and not other immedidate neighbors such as Korea, Laos, Thailand and Burma?

Those countries could be taken with ease by China.


----------



## longyi

Haha! Indeed why? 

Perhaps the others weren't as belligerent as the Viets and didn't make troubles on China's border towns?

There got to be a reason(s) for sure.


----------



## djsjs

Viet said:


> Our tanks in Beijing? you joke!
> Maybe you can answer the question which was raised some tine ago by me, but no Chinese wants to answer: In the long common Sino-VN history over 2,000 years, why China has chosen Vietnam for expansion, and not other immedidate neighbors such as Korea, Laos, Thailand and Burma?
> Those countries could be taken with ease by China.


haha,in the past 2000 years Chinese went there and founded empire or local govt and brought Chinese civilization there.so we accept Vietnam or north Vietnam as part of China emotionally.unlucky no central govt in history has interest in Vietnam,for it is too far from our capital.or else we are talking in Mandarin now.


----------



## EastSea

djsjs said:


> haha,in the past 2000 years Chinese went there and founded empire or local govt and brought Chinese civilization there.so we accept Vietnam or north Vietnam as part of China emotionally.unlucky no central govt in history has interest in Vietnam,for it is too far from our capital.or else we are talking in Mandarin now.



Chinese were slaves of Mongolian to Japanese, all kind of invders in the past. Slaves didn't have right to dream.



terranMarine said:


> Perhaps Viets are like pests that needs to be wiped out. Ancient Chinese probably saw that a long time ago and picked Vietnam as prey



Your ancestors ran away from Vietnam with bloody heads, don't lie kid.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## visom

Just reading what all these posters write here just makes me mad.

I've never seen so many idiotic statements, racist remarks, and war threats in 1 single site on the internet than here. Know what's worst? Some of your english is so poor that I have trouble trying to understand you.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

I think you just ignore them, If there is a war were happend in future, they will ran away and abandon their comdares because they just fight with their mouth.

P/S: Th&#7857;ng b&#7921;a nó cái câu: "quân t&#7917; &#273;&#7897;ng kh&#7849;u &#273;éo &#273;&#7897;ng &#273;&#7853;y" &#273;&#7845;y còn gì anh em nh&#7881;. )


----------



## Soryu

longyi said:


> Haha! Indeed why?
> 
> Perhaps the others weren't as belligerent as the Viets and didn't make troubles on China's border towns?
> 
> There got to be a reason(s) for sure.


Good excuse reason for invade others, that why China paid same fate in 19th and 20th century, right!? 


terranMarine said:


> Perhaps Viets are like pests that needs to be wiped out. Ancient Chinese probably saw that a long time ago and picked Vietnam as prey


And We did wipe guys like you out our country like d*gs. Read history to know more....

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## terranMarine

Soryu said:


> Good excuse reason for invade others, that why China paid same fate in 19th and 20th century, right!?
> 
> And We did wipe guys like you out our country like d*gs. Read history to know more....



As far as i know Vietnam was ruled by China for over a thousand years while your country never dared to attack China. Now learn some real history primate


----------



## Rechoice

terranMarine said:


> As far as i know Vietnam was ruled by China for over a thousand years while your country never dared to attack China. Now learn some real history primate



You are ruled by Mongolian... to Japanese, there is enough for you, idiot .

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Soryu

terranMarine said:


> As far as i know Vietnam was ruled by China for over a thousand years while your country never dared to attack China. Now learn some real history primate


Oh, why would we attacked you in your land!? We love peace and were not robber like someone.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Rechoice

HongWu said:


> We are your masters for 1000 years. Now you know why. As soon as we open fire you fall to your knees. Stay out of the South China Sea unless you want our tanks to pay a visit to Hanoi.



Chinese kneed long enough before Mongolian, no tired ? You avatar reminder me to Man Quing people, who ruled you until 1912 last century.


----------



## Rechoice

self deleted.


----------



## Viet

visom said:


> Just reading what all these posters write here just makes me *mad*.
> 
> I've never seen so many idiotic statements, racist remarks, and war threats in 1 single site on the internet than here.


No need to take posted comments here too serious. Consider those posts as entertaiment or as trolls.


visom said:


> JKnow what's worst? Some of your *english *is so poor that I have trouble trying to understand you.


Many of us speak English as second or third language.


----------



## Viva_Viet

> China denies firing at Vietnamese boat
> (0) |
> |
> 
> inShare
> Published: March. 26, 2013 at 11:50 PM
> 
> BEIJING, March 26 (UPI) -- China's navy dismissed Vietnam's claim that Chinese ships fired on a Vietnamese fishing boat in the South China Sea in an incident that has drawn U.S. concern.
> 
> A Chinese navy official, who was not named, dismissed Vietnam's complaint as sheer fabrication, China's official Xinhua News Agency reported.
> 
> Vietnam, in its protest, said in the incident which occurred a week ago, Chinese ships chased and shot at a Vietnamese boat fishing in Vietnamese waters in the South China Sea's Paracel islands, setting the boat on fire. The islands are called Hoang Sa by Vietnam and Xisha Islands by China.
> 
> In a protest note, Vietnam demanded China investigate the incident and compensate Vietnamese fishermen, Vietnam News reported.
> 
> Vietnamese Foreign Ministry spokesman Luong Thanh Nghi said China's action violated his country's sovereignty over the Hoang Sa archipelago and was a serious breach of the agreement on the basic principles guiding the settlement of sea issues between Vietnam and China.
> 
> The Chinese navy official said four Vietnamese fishing boats illegally entered and fished in the territorial waters off China's Xisha Islands and that a crew aboard a Chinese patrolling vessel tried repeatedly to persuade the Vietnamese boats to leave by whistle blowing, shouting and hand flag guiding, but all the efforts failed, Xinhua reported.
> 
> The report said the Chinese vessel then fired two warning signal shells into the sky. The official was quoted as saying no weapons were fired and that no Vietnamese boat caught fire.
> 
> Claiming Xisha Islands are part of Chinese territory, the official said Vietnamese fishing boats have illegally entered China's territorial waters frequently in recent years.
> 
> Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong Lei also said China has indisputable sovereignty over the Xisha Islands and their adjacent waters, and that the Vietnamese fishing boat had entered the waters for "illegal fishing operations".
> 
> "According to confirmation by relevant parties, no harm was done to the Vietnamese ship at that time and place," Hong said.
> 
> The latest incident highlights China's growing assertive claims to much of the South China Sea, despite overlapping claims to some of the islands by neighboring countries including Vietnam. As free passage through the sea is critical for global commerce, China's claims have become a source of major international concern.
> 
> *Responding to a question on the latest incident*, State Department spokesman *Patrick Ventrell expressed U.S. concerns*, while noting more information was being sought.
> 
> "As a Pacific nation, the U.S. has a national interest in the maintenance of peace and stability, respect for international law, freedom of navigation, and unimpeded lawful commerce in the South China Sea," he said. "So we strongly oppose the threat or use of force or coercion by any claimant to advance its claims in the South China Sea."
> 
> Ventrell said such incidents underline the need for "a code of conduct, so that these can be dealt with in a transparent and rules-based way."


Very funny US expresses its concern over this incident 

U.S should take Vn bribe and support VN to kick TWese out of Itu-aba isl ,too. love u soo much Mr. President Obama


----------



## Viet

Viva_Viet said:


> Very funny US expresses its concern over this incident
> *U.S should take Vn bribe *and support VN to kick TWese out of Itu-aba isl ,too. love u soo much Mr. President Obama


bro, are you serious?


----------



## Viva_Viet

Viet said:


> bro, are you serious?



Every man has his price ,bro. China bribed US and attack VN in 1974,1979, so we can bribe Mr.Obama to gain his support too.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Bob Ong

zxmint said:


> Yeah, good luck. We are looking forward to being accused as invaders by the "International Court" and let's see what actual actions could be taken.


Sometimes the use of military force is a sign of weakness especially when venues for arguing ones case are deliberately ignored.


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Viva_Viet said:


> Every man has his price ,bro. China bribed US and attack VN in 1974,1979, so we can bribe Mr.Obama to gain his support too.



With what, Vietnamese Robusta?


----------



## Viva_Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> With what, Vietnamese Robusta?


No idea, but it's valueable enough to make US expresses its concern over China's aggression to our fishing boats

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Viva_Viet said:


> No idea, but it's valueable enough to make US expresses its concern over China's aggression to our fishing boats



Doesn't the article said that the Fishermen entered Chinese occupied territory?



> Hoàng Sa (Paracels) islands were invaded by Chinese forces in 1974 and have been occupied ever since even though Vietnam has the legal and historical evidences of its sovereignty. China has refused to negociate the occupation.



& only thing that the Chinese did wrong is to shoot at the boat instead of taking them in for trespassing & judge them as such.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## walle

The US expresses concern on a lot of things, but rarely do they have the cojones to do anything about it. They certain havn't got any when it comes to its sugardaddy.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## BDforever

*Exercises in James Shoal include the landing of amphibious craft on Beijing's most southern territorial claim.*

China has deployed some of its most sophisticated Navy vessels to the eastern coast of Malaysia.

Wednesday's report from the Xinhua news agency is thought to be a play by Beijing to reinforce territorial claims to part of the South China Sea.

Al Jazeera's Rob McBride, reporting from Hong Kong, said military exercises, beginning on Saturday, have "taken many Asian neighbours and military analysts by surprise".

The exercises included the landing of amphibious craft just off the James Shoal, 80 kilometres off the Malaysian coast.

The James Shoal is China's most southerly territorial claim.

It is among several disputed parts of the South China Sea, including the Spratly Islands, that the People's Republic says belong to Beijing.

Our correspondent said the exercise culminated in a ceremony on James Shoal where soldiers and marines promised "to defend Chinese sovereignty".

The move, said Al Jazeera's McBride, could also be Beijing's answer to Washington's so-called "pivot strategy", which would see the US move more resources to East Asia.

Vietnamese boat 'attack'

Vietnam had accused China of opening fire on a fishing boat in the disputed South China Sea on Monday, but Beijing has denied the charges.

The Chinese navy stated that the claim was a "sheer fabrication".

"There is no such things that Chinese vessel fired with weapons or the Vietnames boats caught fire," a Chinese naval official told the state-owned Xinhua news agency.

Vietnam's foreign ministry had said on Monday that a fishing boat was "chased and shot at by a Chinese vessel" and called the incident a "serious violation of its sovereignty". 

source: Chinese navy exercises 'surprise' neighbours - Asia-Pacific - Al Jazeera English

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Aegis DDG

China's provocative action towards the SCS nations shows how the Red CPC views SE Asians in general.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Hellraiser007

BDforever said:


>



Truth really hurts, isn't it.

China is doing the things in SCS which are against UNCLOS. This will back fire on them on International arena. Countries will not trust them for their double standards.

Plus more countries will move into American Umbrella.

When USA went for poll related to UNHRC, even Russia did not vote in that.

The moment China goes to war with any country in SCS there is a chance of anti China alliance in Asia backed by USA is on the cards.

These guys are willfully taking initiatives to destroy what they have built on common chinese blood.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

*PLA Navy amphibious task force reaches Malaysia 'to defend South China sea'*

*A Chinese amphibious task force sparks jitters around the region by reaching the southernmost waters of its claimed domain*






_Chinese Navy's amphibious landing ship Jinggangshan is seen during a training with a hovercraft in waters near Hainan Province on March 20, 2013. Photo: Xinhua_





_Chinese navy vessels at James Shoal yesterday. Photo: SCMP Pictures_

A fully equipped PLA amphibious task force has reached China's southernmost claimed possession in the South China Sea in an unprecedented show of force that is raising eyebrows across the region.

The four-ship flotilla headed by the landing ship Jinggangshan visited James Shoal - some 80 kilometres from Malaysia, less than 200 kilometres from Brunei and 1,800 kilometres from the mainland coast - close to the outer limits of China's "nine-dash line", by which it lays claim to virtually the entire South China Sea.






A Xinhua report yesterday described marines and crew gathering on the deck of the Jinggangshan - one of the PLA Navy's three 200-metre landing ships - to pledge to "defend the South China Sea, maintain national sovereignty and strive towards the dream of a strong China".

"It was a surprisingly strong message in sending out this task force, on such a new operational role from previous PLAN [PLA Navy] patrols in the region," said Gary Li, a senior analyst with IHS Fairplay in London.

*"It is not just a few ships here and there, but a krack amphibious landing ship carrying marines and hovercraft and backed by some of the best escort ships in the PLAN fleet," he said, adding that jet fighters had also been used to cover the task force.*

[


*"We've never seen anything like this that far south in terms of quantity or quality ... it is hard to know whether it is just coincidence, but it does seem to reflect [President] Xi Jinping's desire for more practical operationally based exercises."*

The landing ships are considered some of the most sophisticated vessels in the PLA and are thought to be key to any strategy to invade Taiwan. Their deployments are closely watched by regional rivals. The first of the landing ships, Kunlunshan, has been used in anti-piracy work off the Horn of Africa.

Photos circulating on mainland websites show marines storming beaches, backed by hovercrafts and helicopters dispatched from the Jinggangshan during several days of exercises that saw them visit all of China's holdings in the Spratly Islands.

*The PLA took six Spratlys reefs and shoals from Vietnam in a sea battle 25 years ago this month.*

*The ships are due to head back north, crossing into the western Pacific for further drills via the Bashi channel between Taiwan and the Philippines, Xinhua said.*

News of the Jinggangshan's appearance off James Shoal last night sparked chatter among military officials in the region.

"That is quite a show of sovereignty - an amphibious task force," said one military attaché monitoring developments. "It has got everyone talking.
The Spratlys is one thing, but turning up at James Shoal is quite another. Once again, China is showing it is quite unafraid to send a message to the region

"The Spratlys is one thing, but turning up at James Shoal is quite another. Once again, China is showing it is quite unafraid to send a message to the region - and in a year when Asean is chaired by Brunei, turning up down there in such a fashion is pretty strong symbolism."

PLA deployments into the South China Sea in 2009 and 2010 sparked fears across the region of a new assertiveness by Beijing. Those concerns in turn prompted fresh moves by several Southeast Asian nations to force the long-simmering South China Sea dispute back on to the regional agenda - and forge closer ties with the US.

PLA Navy amphibious task force reaches Malaysia 'to defend South China sea' | South China Morning Post

This is how close James Shoal is to Malaysia

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## terranMarine

Soryu said:


> Oh, why would we attacked you in your land!? We love peace and were not robber like someone.



When Khmer Rouge attacked VN, the vietcongs fought back and invaded Cambodia plus occupied the country for some years. PLA did help attacking you mofo but what did VN do? Exactly no guts to invade China.


----------



## scorpionx

What is happening between China and Vietnam? It's very difficult to solve a problem when one or both the party are lying.


----------



## BDforever

1. Do not feel ashamed to praise others if they do really great, if you do not then you have ego problem, ego will bring you down.
2.


bangbros said:


> *instead of working to making ur own nation greater *..



do you dare to explain what are we doing wrong in that bold part ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Genesis

I really think the nations involved should just lay things on the table. 

What do people really want the seas for? It's resources and not build houses right? Then discuss it, who gets what, how much, a concession here and there by every party could suit everyone just fine. With a resource project such as this, investment, corporation is needed anyways, so multiple parties being involved is a given anyways. 

Right now everyone is in the dark, nobody knows what China wants and why it wants it. China don't understand what the others want and why they want it.

In the end I see the countries working together anyways, so what's this "conflict" really for...?


----------



## jhungary

visom said:


> Just reading what all these posters write here just makes me mad.
> 
> I've never seen so many idiotic statements, racist remarks, and war threats in 1 single site on the internet than here. Know what's worst? Some of your english is so poor that I have trouble trying to understand you.



Dude, you know what??

Most of the people here are teenagers, they don't know what's what and only seens fit to have their loud mouth display. 
Maybe a war is good for them. They will either learn to be mature or be killed outright, then it can spare us all the war, racist, delirious chest thumping talk.

I laugh at most of them and move on. Try to learn how to read post selectively

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

*Chinese navy exercises 'surprise' neighbours*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifyDzyI9yik

China has deployed some of its most sophisticated Navy vessels to the eastern coast of Malaysia.

Wednesday's report from the Xinhua news agency is thought to be a play by Beijing to reinforce territorial claims to part of the South China Sea.

Al Jazeera's Rob McBride, reporting from Hong Kong, said military exercises, beginning on Saturday, have "taken many Asian neighbours and military analysts by surprise".

The exercises included the landing of amphibious craft just off the James Shoal, 80 kilometres off the Malaysian coast.

The James Shoal is China's most southerly territorial claim.

It is among several disputed parts of the South China Sea, including the Spratly Islands, that the People's Republic says belong to Beijing.

Our correspondent said the exercise culminated in a ceremony on James Shoal where soldiers and marines promised "to defend Chinese sovereignty".

The move, said Al Jazeera's McBride, could also be Beijing's answer to Washington's so-called "pivot strategy", which would see the US move more resources to East Asia.

*Vietnamese boat 'attack'*

Vietnam had accused China of opening fire on a fishing boat in the disputed South China Sea on Monday, but Beijing has denied the charges.

The Chinese navy stated that the claim was a "sheer fabrication".

"There is no such things that Chinese vessel fired with weapons or the Vietnames boats caught fire," a Chinese naval official told the state-owned Xinhua news agency.

Vietnam's foreign ministry had said on Monday that a fishing boat was "chased and shot at by a Chinese vessel" and called the incident a "serious violation of its sovereignty".

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## longyi

Soryu said:


> Good excuse reason for invade others, that why China paid same fate in 19th and 20th century, right!?




My point wasn't who won and lost, which were open for interpretations anyway. 

The question was why China picked fights only with Vietnam but not the others that share common borders with her. So I gave two reasons: 1) Vietnam was more militarily active than the others. Hey it takes two hands to clap. 2) Vietnam has been known to take adventures across the border from time to time. 

And history did prove my two points were corrected since China rarely fought with her other neighbors who respected their respective borders with China. So if you don't agree or have some opinions to add I'm all ear.




........


*China patrols disputed waters, denies firing on boat*


BEIJING: *China's* increasingly powerful *navy has denied firing on a Vietnamese boat in disputed waters in the South China Sea,* state media said on Wednesday, as its craft made wide-ranging patrols of the region.

The denial came during naval patrols which on Tuesday took Chinese ships within 80 kilometres (50 miles) of the Malaysian coast, amid rising international tensions over the disputed sea.

*The navy described a Vietnamese claim that Chinese vessels had fired on one of its fishing boats as "sheer fabrication",* Xinhua news agency reported.

Vietnam's foreign ministry said on Monday a fishing boat was "chased and shot at by a Chinese vessel" and had its cabin set ablaze. Hanoi called the incident a "serious violation" of its sovereignty.

*"There is no such things that Chinese vessel fired with weapons or the Vietnamese boats caught fire," *Xinhua quoted a Chinese naval official as saying, adding that the Chinese vessel had fired *"two warning signal shells"*.

Xinhua said four Chinese naval ships are currently patrolling around the Spratly Islands, a collection of islets and reefs which are also wholly or partly claimed by Vietnam, the Philippines, Taiwan, Malaysia and Brunei.

It said the ships on Tuesday had reached the James Shoal, a collection of submerged rocks 80 kilometres off Malaysia and about 1,800 kilometres from the Chinese mainland.

The shoal marks the extreme limit of China's claims in the region, which it bases on a map published in the 1940s.

Ships in the patrol include the Jinggangshan, China's largest amphibious landing ship, Xinhua said.

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_asiapacific/view/1262706/1/.html

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## zxmint

Bob Ong said:


> Sometimes the use of military force is a sign of weakness especially when venues for arguing ones case are deliberately ignored.


Accept or not, only power works through the international community. International laws or rules are made by great powers to rule this world, and they are cheaper than a void paper if there are something against the great powers' interests. US also refuse to accept some international rules. 
Let's see what your voice would be like when US keep falling down and quit Asia. Don't let us down~~~


----------



## zxmint

Viva_Viet said:


> Every man has his price ,bro. China bribed US and attack VN in 1974,1979, so we can bribe Mr.Obama to gain his support too.



Bribe US to fight against China for VN? Are U Kidding me? How much or what could you pay them then?
You are still living in a drum or do not want to admit the fact that US is just making use of you and hoping you become its cannon fodder.


----------



## zxmint

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Doesn't the article said that the Fishermen entered Chinese occupied territory?
> 
> 
> 
> & only thing that the Chinese did wrong is to shoot at the boat instead of taking them in for trespassing & judge them as such.



That is a lie. We did not shoot them, but just lunched a signal detonator. BTW, most Chinese people blame their government's weakness on this kind of dispute and think highly of what Russians did toward Japanese fishermen.


----------



## zxmint

Viet said:


> Our tanks in Beijing? you joke!
> 
> Maybe you can answer the question which was raised some tine ago by me, but no Chinese wants to answer: In the long common Sino-VN history over 2,000 years, why China has chosen Vietnam for expansion, and not other immedidate neighbors such as Korea, Laos, Thailand and Burma?
> 
> Those countries could be taken with ease by China.



Why always Viet? You are asking an interesting question. Let me tell you why. First of all, just think about where your civilization came from. In ancient years, China is not only a definition of politics , it was not only a country, but a huge civilization area including Central China, Mongolia, Tibet, Korea and Vietnam. Yes, we for sure admit you as an independent country now. But to be honest, Vietnam, at least Northern Viet was a part of China's territory since 2000 years ago. But because of many complicated factors, it is inevitable that you became independent. Another reason is that Korea was more obedient to China in history and we view it as an extremely important part of national interests. That is why we fought against Japanese for Koreans several times in history.


----------



## zxmint

Malaya said:


> China is establishing itself as a major player in the world. If China wants the whole world to listen, she should not bully its neighbors.
> 
> The issue here is not war between nations of unequal powers but fairness and justice. This is a question of sovereignty. If the UN is to be regarded as a viable venue to resolve issues such as this one, then it has to give existing international laws a chance to clear things up regardless of who the claimants are.
> 
> The veto being exercised by China in the security council is one of the reasons of your arrogance in world affairs and your recent prosperity made your country an abusive bully.


Tell me, who gave fairness and justice when 8 countries invaded China together in 1900? And who gave you fairness when US and Spain fought against each other for the control of your land and people? This world is just so cruel indeed!

And you really don't know why there are so many voices against China? Because of its arrogance? Why don't you blame Americans then? US starts 3 wars in past 15 years and killed millions of people and you still think it is a nation of "fairness" and "justice". So it really teaches us what is the exact definition of this two terms.


----------



## zxmint

EastSea said:


> the difference between China and USA is that Uncle Sam control Taiwan, but China dare not do nothing to unitify the country. It's the difference, kid.


Such stupid words is why we always look you down...A monkey is laughing at a lion for it dares not fight against an elephant. Idiot.



john.mccainn said:


> thank you for your supports for acknowledge Taiwan as part of China.
> you should do the same for parcel and spratly islands tho.
> hopes Philippines do same as like you do.
> cheers


Sorry, what is Parcel Island? I cannot even find it even in a dictionary and I only know the Xisha Islands.


----------



## Soryu

terranMarine said:


> _*When Khmer Rouge attacked VN, the vietcongs fought back and invaded Cambodia plus occupied the country for some years. PLA did help attacking you mofo but what did VN do*_? Exactly no guts to invade China.


LOL, What did you have a brain for? Troll? 


scorpionx said:


> What is happening between China and Vietnam? It's very difficult to solve a problem when one or both the party are lying.


Some chinese arrogant can't take their mouth off, of course. 


longyi said:


> My point wasn't who won and lost, which were open for interpretations anyway.
> 
> The question was why China picked fights only with Vietnam but not the others that share common borders with her. So I gave two reasons: 1) Vietnam was more militarily active than the others. Hey it takes two hands to clap. 2) Vietnam has been known to take adventures across the border from time to time.
> 
> And history did prove my two points were corrected since China rarely fought with her other neighbors who respected their respective borders with China. So if you don't agree or have some opinions to add I'm all ear.


LOL, you kidding so much, What's happened with Korea, Mongolia, Manchuria, .... then?
You big, you mighty, you invade others, then it became our fault, 


zxmint said:


> Why always Viet? You are asking an interesting question. Let me tell you why. First of all, just think about where your civilization came from. In ancient years, China is not only a definition of politics , it was not only a country, but a huge civilization area including Central China, Mongolia, Tibet, Korea and Vietnam. Yes, we for sure admit you as an independent country now. But to be honest, Vietnam, at least Northern Viet was a part of China's territory since 2000 years ago. But because of many complicated factors, it is inevitable that you became independent. Another reason is that Korea was more obedient to China in history and we view it as an extremely important part of national interests. That is why we fought against Japanese for Koreans several times in history.





zxmint said:


> Tell me, who gave fairness and justice when 8 countries invaded China together in 1900? And who gave you fairness when US and Spain fought against each other for the control of your land and people? This world is just so cruel indeed!
> 
> And you really don't know why there are so many voices against China? Because of its arrogance? Why don't you blame Americans then? US starts 3 wars in past 15 years and killed millions of people and you still think it is a nation of "fairness" and "justice". So it really teaches us what is the exact definition of this two terms.


 This how they call double standard 


zxmint said:


> Such stupid words is why we always look you down...A monkey is laughing at a lion for it dares not fight against an elephant. Idiot.


If that's how world were, so you're mere dog, do you?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## terranMarine

Lost arguments primate? VN went after Cambodia and not China proofs VN never had the power to attack us in the first place.


----------



## zxmint

Soryu said:


> LOL,
> 
> Some chinese arrogant can't take their mouth off, of course.
> 
> LOL, you kidding so much, What's happened with Korea, Mongolia, Manchuria, .... then?
> You big, you mighty, you invade others, then it became our fault,
> 
> 
> This how they call double standard
> 
> If that's how world were, so you're mere dog, do you?


No one calls you monkey and those offensive words do not make any sense but bring shame on yourself. I won't talk to anyone who can't understand analogy.


----------



## Soryu

zxmint said:


> No one calls you monkey and those offensive words do not make any sense but bring shame on yourself. I won't talk to anyone who can't understand analogy.


Others troll, you troll (or you wrong?) and I troll! problem? 

P/S: no need to explain, I read some your net fiction, and I know bullshjt in there. Are you read it?


----------



## EastSea

zxmint said:


> Such stupid words is why we always look you down...A monkey is laughing at a lion for it dares not fight against an elephant. Idiot.



he, he, China is bigger she is elephant, Uncle Sam is lion.


----------



## HongWu

scorpionx said:


> What is happening between China and Vietnam? It's very difficult to solve a problem when one or both the party are lying.


PLAN is using Vietnam for target practice against just like 1974 and 1988


----------



## scorpionx

HongWu said:


> PLAN is using Vietnam for target practice against just like 1974 and 1988



Don't live with arrogance.Sometime it_ back fires._

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Viet

terranMarine said:


> Lost arguments primate? VN went after Cambodia and not China proofs *VN never had the power to attack us *in the first place.



Who says that Vietnam never had the power to attack China?

In the Sino-Vietnam war of 1075, the Vietnamese army launched a preemptive strike on Guangdong and Guangxi. And again in the war of 1979, when our army conducted raid in China´s border regions and destroyed supporting PLA artillery installations.

Sure there were only two raids, nothing if compare to your attacks on Vietnam.


*History of Vietnam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia*

The Lý Dynasty had two major wars with *Song China*, and a few conquests against neighboring *Champa *in the south. The most notable battle took place on Chinese territory in 1075 AD. 

Upon learning that a Song invasion was imminent, *the Lý army and navy totaling about 100,000 men under the command of Lý Th&#432;&#7901;ng Ki&#7879;t, Tông &#272;&#7843;n used amphibious operations to preemptively destroy three Song military installations at Yong Zhou, Qin Zhou, and Lian Zhou in present-day Guangdong and Guangxi,* and killed 100,000 Chinese. 

The Song Dynasty took revenge and invaded &#272;&#7841;i Vi&#7879;t in 1076, but the Song troops were held back at the Battle of Nh&#432; Nguy&#7879;t River commonly known as the C&#7847;u river, now in B&#7855;c Ninh province about 40 km from the current capital, Hanoi. Neither side was able to force a victory, so the Lý Dynasty proposed a truce, which the Song emperor accepted. 

Champa and the powerful Khmer Empire took advantage of the Lý Dynasty's distraction with the Chinese to pillage the south of the country. Together they invaded Vietnam in 1128 and 1132. Further invasions followed in the subsequent decades.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## HongWu

Malaya said:


> China is establishing itself as a major player in the world. If China wants the whole world to listen, she should not bully its neighbors.


We prefer to bully and make ourself richer and more powerful. Don't care whether you listen or not.


----------



## Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> *Chinese navy exercises 'surprise' neighbours*
> China has deployed some of its most sophisticated Navy vessels to the eastern coast of Malaysia.
> 
> Wednesday's report from the Xinhua news agency is thought to be a play by Beijing to reinforce territorial claims to part of the South China Sea.
> 
> Al Jazeera's Rob McBride, reporting from Hong Kong, said military exercises, beginning on Saturday, have "taken many Asian neighbours and military analysts by surprise".
> 
> The exercises included the landing of amphibious craft just off the *James Shoal, 80 kilometres off the Malaysian coast.*
> 
> The James Shoal is China's most southerly territorial claim.
> 
> It is among several disputed parts of the South China Sea, including the Spratly Islands, that the People's Republic says belong to Beijing.
> 
> Our correspondent said the exercise culminated in a ceremony on James Shoal where soldiers and marines promised "to defend Chinese sovereignty".
> 
> The move, said Al Jazeera's McBride, could also be Beijing's answer to Washington's so-called "pivot strategy", which would see the US move more resources to East Asia.


Chinese love provocation, I see. On one side, they claim to be peaceful, but on the other side they act aggressive on the ground. Though China must know that others will take counteraction, especially the Vietnamese government. Tit for tat.

Anyway this navy exercise off the James Shoal, 80 kilometres off the Malaysian coast, can only anger Malaysia, and not Vietnam. Why? first, nobody in VN is impressed by such show of force. Second, this exercise occured out of the Vietnamese claim (including EEZ) in the SC sea:






200 miles based on UNCLOS






Vietnam EEZ

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Soryu

Viet said:


> Chinese love provocation, I see. On one side, they claim to be peaceful, but on the other side they act aggressive on the ground. Though China must know that others will take counteraction, especially the Vietnamese government. Tit for tat.
> 
> Anyway this navy exercise off the James Shoal, 80 kilometres off the Malaysian coast, can only anger Malaysia, and not Vietnam. Why? first, nobody in VN is impressed by such show of force. Second, this exercise occured out of the Vietnamese claim (including EEZ) in the SC sea:
> 
> 200 miles based on UNCLOS
> Vietnam EEZ


Well, They just fire on our fishmen ship, we were protest very strong in my view and Maybe they were predict that and made exercises on other way. Like I know, the ships used to went our EEZ was CMS ship, their navy never dare to step that close.

In case of Jame shoal if they went to there and went off, so not so serious but surprise because they allowed their media report that action. They want check ASEAN countries.


----------



## Malaya

Greed and arrogance does not satisfy 
















*James Shoal* is only 80 km from the Malaysian coast and about 1800 km from the Chinese mainland.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Malaya

zxmint said:


> Tell me, who gave fairness and justice when 8 countries invaded China together in 1900? And who gave you fairness when US and Spain fought against each other for the control of your land and people? This world is just so cruel indeed!
> 
> And you really don't know why there are so many voices against China? Because of its arrogance? Why don't you blame Americans then? US starts 3 wars in past 15 years and killed millions of people and you still think it is a nation of "fairness" and "justice". So it really teaches us what is the exact definition of this two terms.


We are now in the 21st century, living in a civilized world and governed by laws. 

China must honor the territorial rights of other countries. We are no longer living in the ancient times where there is no law exists and countries were not yet discovered. Wake up! Your claim over your neighbors' exclusive economic zones is grave blunder. You pushed all your neighbors around in the area. You&#8217;re the only one doing all the provoking, waddling about showing off how mighty you think you are, but the fact remains, your posturing is all because of your insatiable greed for more natural resources in areas clearly you don&#8217;t own.

The world will know further how arrogance by reason of economic and military superiority is not the proper way to insist an old and decaying argument of the nine dash line. Remember Hitler what he did in Germany, You are following that line by insisting your supposed "indisputable" sovereignty on a territory that is so far away from your nearest seashore. It defies logic that you don't possess.


----------



## Malaya

HongWu said:


> *We prefer to bully and make ourself richer and more powerful*. Don't care whether you listen or not.


Did you missed taking your medications? 

Your greed will soon backfire in your face.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Malaya

*Is China Bullying Its Neighbors Over Some Rocks in South China Sea?*
Jinyoung Parkin 
World, Asia

Signs of escalating tension are shoring up in the South China Sea as Hanoi and Beijing go head to head over a &#8220;trawler attack.&#8221; Vietnam accused a Chinese vessel of chasing and firing on a Vietnamese fishing vessel near Paracel Islands on March 20, lodging a formal complaint with the Chinese Embassy in Hanoi and demanding punishment of those responsible of this &#8220;very serious&#8221; incident. China responded by stating that the unspecified actions by the Chinese vessel were &#8220;legitimate and reasonable&#8221; against illegal fishing activity by Vietnamese fishermen. 

This incident and its diplomatic handling bear more significance than its seemingly trivial cover, since any small event can flare up the decades-long brawl over contested islands in South China Sea. Both China and Vietnam claim the Paracel islands and the Spratly islands in South China Sea, along with the Philippines, Taiwan, Malaysia, and Brunei that also claim and/or occupy some parts of the disputed territory. This instance of Beijing-Hanoi back-and-forth, which might either escalate further or subside, we are yet to see, is not an isolated incident. We have seen more small-scale incidents around the disputed islands over the last few years, especially between China and Japan over Senkaku/Diaoyu Island. 

There have been many analyses regarding why China and other countries are so protective of these islands, which in fact are no more than small rocks that are either too small to be inhabited by people or submerged under water half of the time. Some say it&#8217;s about gas or oil underneath the islands, fishing rights, or securing Sea Lines of Communications (SLOCs) for overseas trades. Others say it&#8217;s about growing nationalistic sentiments in the region, China trying to be the regional hegemon, or China reacting to Obama&#8217;s &#8220;pivot to Asia.&#8221; While no conclusion can be made in this short article, the answer is probably some combination of all these factors. 

What we can conclude for sure, though, is that these acts of muscle-flexing in the South China Sea fundamentally clash with China&#8217;s vital interests of maintaining stable and productive relations with its neighbors. After all, Beijing&#8217;s first and foremost goal lies in keeping its people happy and therefore democratic-revolution-free by sustaining its unprecedented economic growth. And Beijing can do that only if it continues its flourishing trade relations within the Southeast Asian region and secure the sea routes through which most of its overseas trades are done. Indeed, much of Beijing&#8217;s diplomatic capital has been invested on this mission.

Last Thursday, after a phone conversation with Vietnamese Communist Party chief Nguyen Phu Trong, President Xi Jinping stated that China will &#8220;work with Vietnam to enhance bilateral exchanges and cooperation in various fields.&#8221; Trong responded by emphasizing the great importance of the &#8220;traditional friendship with China&#8221; and vowing to &#8220;push forward ties as to contribute to peace and development in the region and the world at large.&#8221; Underlying these high-level schmoozing are, however, decades-long territorial disputes that can crumble these efforts for peace and development by just one or two military altercations in the sea.

To be fair, China was only exercising its legitimate rights, according to its Foreign Ministry, and other countries would have probably done the same if a foreign vessel approached one of the islands they occupy. In fact, generally speaking, China has shown much restraint in using violence. However, China cannot help looking like a bully in most of its conflict situations with its neighbors, especially with its naval power growing at the speed and magnitude that has been making other Asian countries very nervous. It&#8217;s about time that China reevaluates its long-term and short-term priorities, understand the discrepancy between its actions and how they appear to others, and take tangible measures that are dedicated to maintain peace and stability in the region.

Is China Bullying Its Neighbors Over Some Rocks in South China Sea?


----------



## Malaya

*South China Sea dispute getting hot*
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS MARCH 27, 2013

Vietnam has accused a Chinese vessel of firing a flare on a Vietnamese fishing boat that set its cabin alight in the disputed South China Sea, where rival claims to gas-rich waters have strained relations between the countries.

The Vietnamese government did not say if anyone was injured in the incident last Wednesday but called it "very serious." It lodged a formal complaint with the Chinese Embassy in Hanoi.

The United States also said it was concerned by the incident, and was seeking information about it from both sides.

The fishing boat was near the Paracel islands when an unidentified Chinese vessel chased it and fired the flare, the government said in a statement issued late Monday. Hanoi demanded that China punish those responsible and pay reparations to the fishermen whose boat was damaged.

Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong Lei said China had taken unspecified but "legitimate and reasonable" actions against Vietnamese boats working illegally in Chinese waters. He denied that any boats had been damaged, but gave few other details.

There have been other clashes in the waters, often related to claims of illegal fishing or violations of Chinese unilaterally imposed fishing moratoriums.

Vietnam and China each claim large parts of the South China Sea. The Philippines, Malaysia, Taiwan and Brunei also maintain that parts of the sea are theirs.


Read more: http://www.theprovince.com/South+China+dispute+getting/8157717/story.html#ixzz2OqTHmoVb

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## longyi

I wonder it has anything to do with the Sabah conflict: 

1) has an understanding with Malaysia if Philippines claims Sabah they'll be on the same side, or

2) taking advantage of the conflict to reiterate her position vis-a-vis James Shoal. 

Just thinking out loud.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## zxmint

Malaya said:


> We are now in the 21st century, living in a civilized world and governed by laws.
> 
> China must honor the territorial rights of other countries. We are no longer living in the ancient times where there is no law exists and countries were not yet discovered. Wake up! Your claim over your neighbors' exclusive economic zones is grave blunder. You pushed all your neighbors around in the area. Youre the only one doing all the provoking, waddling about showing off how mighty you think you are, but the fact remains, your posturing is all because of your insatiable greed for more natural resources in areas clearly you dont own.
> 
> The world will know further how arrogance by reason of economic and military superiority is not the proper way to insist an old and decaying argument of the nine dash line. Remember Hitler what he did in Germany, You are following that line by insisting your supposed "indisputable" sovereignty on a territory that is so far away from your nearest seashore. It defies logic that you don't possess.


So tell me if it is reasonable to get your belongings from gangsters and thieves? Don't pretend to be bullied and attempt to keep your stolen property forever. That is what Chinese people think: we just take what belongs to us originally. We never ask for other countries' territories and won't accept them even if you send us.

And tell me how far away that Hawaii locates from US's nearest seashore? It is a funny way to judge the ownership of territories. You have made enough numbers of jokes, go ahead if you wanna go on.


----------



## zxmint

The fact out there in SCS is about several thieves don't want to return their stolen property and claim to be bullied when the owner ask them to return. It seems like that the owner really need to take some actual actions. No words work toward thieves.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## zxmint

Viet said:


> Who says that Vietnam never had the power to attack China?
> 
> In the Sino-Vietnam war of 1075, the Vietnamese army launched a preemptive strike on Guangdong and Guangxi. And again in the war of 1979, when our army conducted raid in China´s border regions and destroyed supporting PLA artillery installations.
> 
> Sure there were only two raids, nothing if compare to your attacks on Vietnam.
> 
> 
> *History of Vietnam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia*
> 
> The Lý Dynasty had two major wars with *Song China*, and a few conquests against neighboring *Champa *in the south. The most notable battle took place on Chinese territory in 1075 AD.
> 
> Upon learning that a Song invasion was imminent, *the Lý army and navy totaling about 100,000 men under the command of Lý Th&#432;&#7901;ng Ki&#7879;t, Tông &#272;&#7843;n used amphibious operations to preemptively destroy three Song military installations at Yong Zhou, Qin Zhou, and Lian Zhou in present-day Guangdong and Guangxi,* and killed 100,000 Chinese.
> 
> The Song Dynasty took revenge and invaded &#272;&#7841;i Vi&#7879;t in 1076, but the Song troops were held back at the Battle of Nh&#432; Nguy&#7879;t River commonly known as the C&#7847;u river, now in B&#7855;c Ninh province about 40 km from the current capital, Hanoi. Neither side was able to force a victory, so the Lý Dynasty proposed a truce, which the Song emperor accepted.
> 
> Champa and the powerful Khmer Empire took advantage of the Lý Dynasty's distraction with the Chinese to pillage the south of the country. Together they invaded Vietnam in 1128 and 1132. Further invasions followed in the subsequent decades.



Yeah, you are damn right, Viet is a real big actual threats to China and we should not look down you so much. Does that make you satisfied and feel better?


----------



## Viet

zxmint said:


> Yeah, you are damn right, Viet is a real big actual threats to China and we should not look down you so much. *Does that make you satisfied and feel better?*


No need to be sarcastic. My post was responded to @terranMarine, saying that Vietnam never had the power to invade China. Anyway the raids were merely the reactions to your aggression against us. Nothing more.

Actually ancient Vietnam had more than enough chances to teach you aggressive Chinese a lession. But we did not want to.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## scobydoo

That PLAN exercise in James Shoal raises concern on the Indonesian military forum because that's so close to Natuna. Natuna is one of the richest oil reserves in SCS.






China needs a lot of oil to sustain economic growth. Chinese always silent about Natuna (its still not clear whether the nine dash claim including Natuna or not), but sometimes their attitude show something different.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## walle

China is just buying time without softening it's stance, 5, 10 years down the track she will be powerful enough to dictate the rules in SCS. None of the countries in dispute can match china, economically, militarily or culturally, they also lack support from the international community. For self assurance, they seems to think countries with no stake in SCS will miraculously forgive their own interests and help them. Wake up you self delusional trolls, countries have no allies only interests.

It's embarrassing some viet trolls think the US would give 2 shits about them.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

China could dream as she can, in fact china invite Uncle Sam to present at your door, idiot.


----------



## terranMarine

Viet said:


> No need to be sarcastic. My post was responded to @terranMarine, saying that Vietnam never had the power to invade China. Anyway the raids were merely the reactions to your aggression against us. Nothing more.
> 
> Actually ancient Vietnam had more than enough chances to teach you aggressive Chinese a lession. But we did not want to.



Don't overreact, Vietnam never had the power to invade China in ancient times and VN could only pick Cambodia as target for retaliation and did not choose to attack China despite the PLA did help Khmer Rouge attack you mofos.
If VN did had that kind of power it would have done so, just keep smoking pots if you truly believe VN was ever much stronger than China.


----------



## NiceGuy

terranMarine said:


> Don't overreact, Vietnam never had the power to invade China in ancient times and VN could only pick Cambodia as target for retaliation and did not choose to attack China despite the PLA did help Khmer Rouge attack you mofos.
> If VN did had that kind of power it would have done so, just keep smoking pots if you truly believe VN was ever much stronger than China.


We gain Nothing to attack a country with billion of people living in barren land. Think abt attacking China is just like to think abt occuopying Shahara desert



. 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Russian ships conduct firing practice in SCS(east sea)*
(Xinhua)
21:10, March 28, 2013

MOSCOW, March 28 (Xinhua) -- A group of six Russian navy warships conducted firing exercises in the SCS the country's Pacific Fleet said Thursday.

"A big anti-submarine ship Admiral Panteleyev has conducted artillery shooting exercises in the South China Sea. The sea targets were destroyed," Pacific Fleet spokesman Roman Martov told local media.

Ka-27 carrier-born helicopters made several sorties in a simulated enemy submarine search. The crews also tested their ships' survival capabilities, Martov said.

The Russian ships, including one big anti-submarine ship, three landing ships, a tanker and a rescue vessel, are on their way to the Gulf of Aden where they will protect navigation against piracy.

This is the ninth mission by the Pacific Fleet to Somali shores.

Russian ships conduct firing practice in South China Sea - People's Daily Online

Welcome back to Cam Ranh bay, brother bear

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## terranMarine

barren land? Go look at your jungle primate


----------



## Soryu

Viet said:


> No need to be sarcastic. My post was responded to @terranMarine, saying that Vietnam never had the power to invade China. Anyway the raids were merely the reactions to your aggression against us. Nothing more.
> 
> Actually ancient Vietnam had more than enough chances to teach you aggressive Chinese a lession. But we did not want to.


Well, no need to respond that stupid arrogant, he can not accept the true. You can see idiot in his post:

He said China was back Khmer rough attacked us, and We counter attack Khmer-rough, So China attacked us to help Khmer-rough.
It's clear, China was betrayed us at first, they feel proud when they can used Cambodia along their PLA damage us, but coward to admit their betrayal with us.
We were want peace at lastest, but when Khmer-rough prepared to launch a all out war on us, we must take them down, but China can't take it.

Their stupid pride and arrogant so hard to accept the true like alway: When said about shake hand with America 1972, they said that's political and power in region and international, but when said about 1979, they crying about morality and ungraceful because we fefused to join with them against USSR in 1969. 



terranMarine said:


> Don't overreact, Vietnam never had the power to invade China in ancient times and VN could only pick Cambodia as target for retaliation and did not choose to attack China despite the PLA did help Khmer Rouge attack you mofos.
> If VN did had that kind of power it would have done so, just keep smoking pots if you truly believe VN was ever much stronger than China.





walle said:


> It's embarrassing some viet trolls think the US would give 2 shits about them.


I don't know about that as well as 1972 event but it's seem like you really like shjts, you can find it in your house...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NiceGuy

terranMarine said:


> barren land? Go look at your jungle primate


Barren and polluted land. people don't have enough safe and healthy food in China
1,3 billion people , only 120 million hectares of arable land with one tenth is extremely polluted


> One Tenth Of Arable Land In China Suffers From Pollution
> 
> China has about *120 million hectares of arable land, 13 percent of its land area*.
> by Staff Writers
> Beijing (XNA) Nov 09, 2006
> China's* pollution problems have damaged 10 million hectares, or one tenth,* of the country's arable land, said the environment watchdog Tuesday as it called for expanding grass-roots monitoring staff in the rural areas. China faces "grave" soil pollution that jeopardizes the ecology, food safety, people's health and the sustainable development of agriculture, according to the State Environmental Protection Administration (SEPA).
> 
> It is estimated that each year 12 million tons of grain are contaminated by heavy metals in the soil, causing direct economic losses of more than 20 billion yuan (around 2.5 billion U.S. dollars), the SEPA said.
> 
> Irrigated sewage, scrap metal and acid rain are blamed for contaminated crops.
> 
> China has about 120 million hectares of arable land, 13 percent of its land area.
> 
> Despite the efforts of SEPA's 160,000 environmental officials, China's environmental picture shows little optimism.
> 
> Pollution prevention is weak, especially in the rural areas, the SEPA said, adding that there is currently no legislation concerning soil and poultry raising pollution.
> 
> Though an excess of one million factories in the country are generating pollution, there are only 50,000 environmental monitoring and inspection personnel at various levels, SEPA said.
> One Tenth Of Arable Land In China Suffers From Pollution

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

CMS 2032 launched at HPS on 28.03.2013&#65306;











What's on the right is another CMS vessel&#65288;#6 from HPS&#65289; that's been brought on the building berth for only 3 weeks&#12290;

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

cirr said:


> CMS 2032 launched at HPS on 28.03.2013&#65306;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's on the right is another CMS vessel&#65288;#6 from HPS&#65289; that's been brought on the building berth for only 3 weeks&#12290;



= 100 kg TNT, enough

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

Shipyards that have won orders to build 1000-tonne and above CMS vessels are&#65306;

&#65288;1&#65289;HPS
&#65288;2&#65289;WCS
&#65288;3&#65289;GJS

Yards that have orders for 600-1000 tonne ships are&#65306;

&#65288;1&#65289;XGS
&#65288;2&#65289;XJS
&#65288;3&#65289;XCS
&#65288;4&#65289;HHS
&#65288;5&#65289;CDS
&#65288;6&#65289;NHS
&#65288;7&#65289;4806

etc&#12290;&#12290;&#12290;


----------



## zxmint

Viet said:


> No need to be sarcastic. My post was responded to @terranMarine, saying that Vietnam never had the power to invade China. Anyway the raids were merely the reactions to your aggression against us. Nothing more.
> 
> Actually ancient Vietnam had more than enough chances to teach you aggressive Chinese a lession. But we did not want to.


Yeah, you Viets were so charitable that you gave up chances to **** China up which had long been one of most advanced and powerful country in the world. I really appreciate that~~~. Keep moving. We are looking forward to being taught by you. And there is one thing I have to praise you: You are really full of talents of humorousness.


----------



## HongWu

Malaya said:


> We are now in the 21st century, living in a civilized world and governed by laws.
> 
> China must honor the territorial rights of other countries. We are no longer living in the ancient times where there is no law exists and countries were not yet discovered. Wake up! Your claim over your neighbors' exclusive economic zones is grave blunder. You pushed all your neighbors around in the area. You&#8217;re the only one doing all the provoking, waddling about showing off how mighty you think you are, but the fact remains, your posturing is all because of your insatiable greed for more natural resources in areas clearly you don&#8217;t own.
> 
> The world will know further how arrogance by reason of economic and military superiority is not the proper way to insist an old and decaying argument of the nine dash line. Remember Hitler what he did in Germany, You are following that line by insisting your supposed "indisputable" sovereignty on a territory that is so far away from your nearest seashore. It defies logic that you don't possess.


Keep deluding yourself. We are coming to colonize you like other nations you worship already did 



NiceGuy said:


> Welcome back to Cam Ranh bay, brother bear


Now you want to beg Russia to save you from China 

Look at the last time they stood by while we inflicted 100,000 civilian casualties on you. This time our tanks will roll into Hanoi for 10x or 100x more casualties!


----------



## zxmint

walle said:


> China is just buying time without softening it's stance, 5, 10 years down the track she will be powerful enough to dictate the rules in SCS. None of the countries in dispute can match china, economically, militarily or culturally, they also lack support from the international community. For self assurance, they seems to think countries with no stake in SCS will miraculously forgive their own interests and help them. Wake up you self delusional trolls, countries have no allies only interests.
> 
> It's embarrassing some viet trolls think the US would give 2 shits about them.


Really not necessary to wake them up and it's boring to talk to Viets and Filipinos ...I found we have much more common topics with Americans.



HongWu said:


> Keep deluding yourself. We are coming to colonize you like other nations you worship already did
> 
> Now you want to beg Russia to save you from China
> 
> Look at the last time they stood by while we inflicted 100,000 civilian casualties on you. This time our tanks will roll into Hanoi for 10x or 100x more casualties!



Is it fun to threat a country much weaker than ours? They are even unqualified to be our enemies. So just stop freaking them out.


----------



## EastSea

HongWu said:


> Keep deluding yourself. We are coming to colonize you like other nations you worship already did
> 
> Now you want to beg Russia to save you from China
> 
> Look at the last time they stood by while we inflicted 100,000 civilian casualties on you. This time our tanks will roll into Hanoi for 10x or 100x more casualties!



Your tanks will destroyed like this.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

scobydoo said:


> That PLAN exercise in James Shoal raises *concern on the Indonesian military forum *because that's so close to Natuna. Natuna is one of the richest oil reserves in SCS.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China needs a lot of oil to sustain economic growth. Chinese always silent about *Natuna *(its still not clear whether the nine dash claim including Natuna or not), but sometimes their attitude show something different.


I hope you Indonesia wake up, along with Malaysia.

It is just obvious that China continues a policy of intimidation: first Vietnam and Phillippines, now Malaysia. Indonesia and Brunei will be the next ones. To think otherwise is just native.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## djsjs

EastSea said:


> Your tanks will destroyed like this.



haha,you . have proved how powerful you are.
so DO NOT cry any more.no matter what happens lets both keep quiet.hope you can win the game.
remember,DO NOT CRY


----------



## djsjs

Viet said:


> I hope you Indonesia wake up, along with Malaysia.
> It is just obvious that China continues a policy of intimidation: first Vietnam and Phillippines, now Malaysia. Indonesia and Brunei will be the next ones. To think otherwise is just native.


CRYING........
dont you know that no matter how big your antiChina alliance is,the first destroyed would forever be your dear motherland if war is coming.


----------



## Viet

djsjs said:


> CRYING........
> dont you know that no matter how big your antiChina alliance is,the first destroyed would forever be your dear motherland if war is coming.


promoting...not crying

I think the 10 ASEAN countries should unite under the Vietnamese banner. What is better: Chinese or Vietnamese rule over SE Asia? The latter is better, for sure.


----------



## john.mccainn

Viet said:


> promoting...not crying
> 
> I think the 10 ASEAN countries should unite under the Vietnamese banner. What is better: Chinese or Vietnamese rule over SE Asia? The latter is better, for sure.



hahahahha are you nuts ?
better for you to consult to psychiatrist.


----------



## djsjs

Viet said:


> promoting...not cryingI think the 10 ASEAN countries should unite under the Vietnamese banner. What is better: Chinese or Vietnamese rule over SE Asia? The latter is better, for sure.


we are not interested in rolling SE ASIA.the only country who has such hobby is your daiViet!


----------



## Soryu

Well, djsjs seem like want our shjt, so he crying that China want get our country ( they said we said all delusion, dreaming, crying or shjt..., but he want it and crying about it so much)

Same on zxmint kid, he praise me when I said I admit mighty of China, he want every Vietnamese act like me, but very angry when I said Vietnam will accept China just at time when she was strong and GOOD enough...

Well, So he bring up "betray" chorus that China government sing for his ears and said China no need we accept anything. LOL

If he say so, what did they doing all around here? Crying all days about how mighty of China and how China can destroy anyone stand against _his arrogant_. What did they gain from those crap words? Would China do like they said? Is that everyone respect and admit mighty of China (or Chinese?) >>> All bullshjt

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

djsjs said:


> we are not interested in rolling SE ASIA.the only country who has such hobby is your daiViet!


It doesn´t matter if you like it or not. Thanks to your aggressive moves against Vietnam and others in the region, we can convince them all to unite under our banner. 

Dai Viet is not only a phrase but a promised land, you know.


----------



## djsjs

Viet said:


> It doesn´t matter if you like it or not. Thanks to your aggressive moves against Vietnam and others in the region, we can convince them all to unite under our banner. Dai Viet is not only a phrase but a promised land, you know.


wet dream.can you explain what the promised land is?


----------



## Viet

djsjs said:


> wet dream.can you explain what the promised land is?


_the Promised Land - in the Bible: Canaan, the land promised by God to Abraham and his descendants; Gen. 12:7_

Under &#272;&#7841;i Vi&#7879;t (&#22823;&#36234; "Great Viet"), all Southeast Asians would enjoy prosperity and security under protection of Vietnam. Any single nation in the region is too small if it stands alone. United, we will change the history. Dai Viet= a promised land.

I know you are against the idea. But who cares?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## djsjs

Viet said:


> _the Promised Land - in the Bible: Canaan, the land promised by God to Abraham and his descendants; Gen. 12:7_
> Under &#272;&#7841;i Vi&#7879;t (&#22823;&#36234; "Great Viet"), all Southeast Asians would enjoy prosperity and security under protection of Vietnam. Any single nation in the region is too small if it stands alone. United, we will change the history. Dai Viet= a promised land.
> I know you are against the idea. But who cares?


you dont even know the meaning of your country name,not to mention &#36234;&#65292;and before knowing all above,&#22823;&#36234; is just a joke


----------



## Viet

djsjs said:


> you dont even know the meaning of your country name,not to mention &#36234;&#65292;and before knowing all above,&#22823;&#36234; is just a joke


_&#272;&#7841;i Vi&#7879;t (&#22823;&#36234; [&#599;âj&#704; vj&#601;&#768;t], literally "Great Viet") is the official name of Vietnamese dynasties beginning with the rule of Lý Thánh Tông (r. 1054&#8211;1072), the third king of the Lý Dynasty. 
_
Dai Viet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## djsjs

Viet said:


> _&#272;&#7841;i Vi&#7879;t (&#22823;&#36234; [&#599;âj&#704; vj&#601;&#768;t], literally "Great Viet") is the official name of Vietnamese dynasties beginning with the rule of Lý Thánh Tông (r. 1054&#8211;1072), the third king of the Lý Dynasty.
> _
> Dai Viet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


what is the meaning of Vietnam?


----------



## Viet

djsjs said:


> what is the meaning of *Vietnam*?


You are funny. I think you troll a bit.

Vietnam literally means Viet living in the south (nam=south). Why south? Because Vietnam lies south of China. What else?


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Viet said:


> promoting...not crying
> 
> I think the 10 ASEAN countries should unite under the Vietnamese banner. What is better: Chinese or Vietnamese rule over SE Asia? The latter is better, for sure.



You do realize that Vietnam is the lowest performer among ASEAN major 6


----------



## djsjs

Viet said:


> You are funny. I think you troll a bit.
> 
> Vietnam literally means Viet living in the south (nam=south). Why south? Because Vietnam lies south of China. What else?



haha,yes nam=south. but it seems you don't really know the meaning of _viet_.before your country got the name_ vietnam_ ,_viet_ didn't refer to vietnam or vietnamnese.
btw, do you know how and when did your country god the name _vietnam_?


----------



## HongWu

Viet said:


> I hope you Indonesia wake up, along with Malaysia.
> 
> It is just obvious that China continues a policy of intimidation: first Vietnam and Phillippines, now Malaysia. Indonesia and Brunei will be the next ones. To think otherwise is just native.


Yes our policy is intimidation. If you try to challenge us then our policy is crush you with tanks!


----------



## zxmint

HongWu said:


> A cockroach will not die until you kill it. You are just deluding yourself like a weakling. A war to finish Vietnam and make them serve our interests is inevitable.


You are too young too simple. Wars cannot solve every problem, or US has long conquered the world. Every war must has clear purpose and can bring us much bigger benefits than costs. It would be a waste of energy and money to fight a large scale war against Vietnam or Philippines. They will for sure bow to us actively when we become strong enough that no power could parallel us in this area.


----------



## HongWu

zxmint said:


> You are too young too simple. Wars cannot solve every problem, or US has long conquered the world. Every war must has clear purpose and can bring us much bigger benefits than costs. It would be a waste of energy and money to fight a large scale war against Vietnam or Philippines. They will for sure bow to us actively when we become strong enough that no power could parallel us in this area.


You must be a coward at heart to think they are so cowardly. You need to inflict 10% casualties before they will bow. Brave countries you must inflict 20% casualties! All problems can be solved by inflicting massive casualties on enemies. Only cowards delude themselves otherwise.


----------



## djsjs

@HongWu 
what is the meaning of your name and where are your from?please tell me in Chinese


----------



## zxmint

HongWu said:


> You must be a coward at heart to think they are so cowardly. You need to inflict 10% casualties before they will bow. Brave countries you must inflict 20% casualties! All problems can be solved by inflicting massive casualties on enemies. Only cowards delude themselves otherwise.



It is quite easy to defeat Viet but always more difficult to recover the order and peace. See what happened in Iraq and Afghanistan, we really don't want to see one of our neighbors become a source of turmoil and terrorism. That does not match our interests. And suggest you restrain your meaningless,aggressive words again, or I'll really doubt if you are true Chinese.


----------



## zxmint

Reashot Xigwin said:


> You do realize that Vietnam is the lowest performer among ASEAN major 6



Even Chinese never talk about ruling over SE Asia but now this Viet is talking...Could you help me find an adj. to describe him?


----------



## zxmint

Viet said:


> _the Promised Land - in the Bible: Canaan, the land promised by God to Abraham and his descendants; Gen. 12:7_
> 
> Under &#272;&#7841;i Vi&#7879;t (&#22823;&#36234; "Great Viet"), all Southeast Asians would enjoy prosperity and security under protection of Vietnam. Any single nation in the region is too small if it stands alone. United, we will change the history. Dai Viet= a promised land.
> 
> 
> 
> I know you are against the idea. But who cares?



Appreciate your confidence from nowhere, just like North Koreans. Dai Viet? Even Dai(&#22823;&#65289;is a Chinese word. Invent your own language before your dreams! BTW, I have to admit that Viets never lack the sense of humor and never mind making themselves a big joke to please others. That is respectful.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

djsjs said:


> haha,yes nam=south. but it seems you don't really know the meaning of _viet_.before your country got the name_ vietnam_ ,_viet_ didn't refer to vietnam or vietnamnese.
> btw, do you know how and* when did your country god the name vietnam*?


LOL...are we now in a history teaching class?

Vietnam has many names in the long history, more than 2 dozens. The term "Vi&#7879;t" is cognate with the Chinese word "*Yue*", a name applied in ancient times to various non-Chinese groups who lived in what is now southern China and northern Vietnam.


2879&#8211;2524 BC	Xích Qu&#7927;
2524&#8211;258 BC	V&#259;n Lang
257&#8211;207 BC	Âu L&#7841;c
207&#8211;111 BC	Nam Vi&#7879;t
111 BC&#8211;39 AD	Giao Ch&#7881;
40&#8211;43	L&#297;nh Nam
43&#8211;299	Giao Ch&#7881;
299&#8211;544	Giao Châu
544&#8211;602	V&#7841;n Xuân
602&#8211;679	Giao Châu
679&#8211;757	An Nam
757&#8211;766	Tr&#7845;n Nam
766&#8211;866	An Nam
866&#8211;967	T&#297;nh H&#7843;i quân
968&#8211;1054	&#272;&#7841;i C&#7891; Vi&#7879;t
1054&#8211;1400	&#272;&#7841;i Vi&#7879;t
1400&#8211;1407	&#272;&#7841;i Ngu
1407&#8211;1427	Giao Ch&#7881;
1428&#8211;1804	&#272;&#7841;i Vi&#7879;t
1804&#8211;1839	Vi&#7879;t Nam
1839&#8211;1887	&#272;&#7841;i Nam
1887&#8211;1945	French Indochina (Tonkin, Annam, & Cochinchina)
from 1945	Vi&#7879;t Nam



Actually at the beginning of 1800 century the Nguyen Emperor wanted to name the country as "Nam Viet", but China opposed it because it feared Vietnam could claim South of China.







Nam-Viet 200bc

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

*China will not be passive in sea disputes*


Global Times | 2013-3-29 0:03:01 







Chinese naval fleets recently conducted patrols on the South China Sea, reaching as far as *Zengmu Reef*, the southernmost part of Chinese territory. In an oath-taking ceremony on board Tuesday, the troops and officials vowed to safeguard China's sovereignty.

Earlier this month, a Chinese vessel fired two warning signal shells into the sky to prevent illegal fishing operations by *Vietnamese fishermen*. Both showed China's firm determination to insist upon its stance amid the South China Sea disputes.

*Washington *expressed its concerns in both cases, reinforcing its attitude that the US can interfere in the South China Sea issue any time.

Despite the fact that John Kerry, the new US secretary of state, has stepped into office and some side effects brought by his predecessor's aggressive approach are in decline, the US stance on the South China Sea will not fundamentally change. Behind China's frictions with the Philippines and Vietnam is actually the rivalry between Beijing and Washington over the South China Sea.

After Hillary Clinton's four-year intervention into the South China Sea issue with her "smart power" diplomacy, and Manila and Hanoi's frictions with Beijing, all kinds of risks within the South China Sea issue have become evident. All parties involved now have a clearer understanding of each other's national strength and determination.

China, through powerful countermeasures against Manila and Hanoi's provocations, has changed its passive status. Beijing had been worried that frictions on the South China Sea would cause deterioration in its surrounding environment and thus undermine its period of strategic opportunities. Now most of its concerns have been dispelled.

Crises like the* Huangyan Island* standoff have made one thing explicit - those were, after all, conflicts between countries whose strength were unequally matched. Manila and Hanoi would not have any chance of victory if the South China Sea issue escalated into a confrontation of national strength.

China has no plan to wage a war and recover all the islands illegally occupied by the Philippines and Vietnam. However, China has become more resolute in terms of strikes against the two's provocations. 

China's growing leverage over the South China Sea issue stems from stable domestic development. Meanwhile, *Manila *and *Hanoi *are witnessing a reduced ability to provoke Beijing over those disputes. Washington is also seeing an increasing number of restraints in its South China Sea policy. The Philippines and Vietnam would face more troubles if they choose to seek fierce confrontation with China.

China should focus on peaceful development. But meanwhile, it is not afraid of adopting resolute measures to protect core national interests. China should avoid external misjudgments toward it, which is pivotal to the nation's long-term strategic environment.


China will not be passive in sea disputes - Frontpage - OP-ED - Globaltimes.cn


----------



## HongWu

The Viets learned that lesson when we opened fire on them last week.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

HongWu said:


> The Viets learned that lesson when we opened fire on them last week.



Chinese sea pirates showed off his aggressive face, dirty enemy.


----------



## Viet

I believe China is becoming a clown nation. The PLA stages endless military exercises in the East and South China Sea, and its media posts endless hate speeches against neighbors. Recently China´s navy even shot at a Vietnamese fishing vessel and conducted landing maneuver near Malaysia coast.

However they love to play the victim card, accusing Vietnam, Philippines and others of provocations. I´m afraid that Chinese military leaders vow to copy N. Korea style of provocation, turning the entire region into a battle field.

*Mr Xi, where are you?*

PS: for anyone, who is not aware: Global Times is the mouthpiece of the Communist Party of China.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## john.mccainn

goooooood news


----------



## djsjs

Viet said:


> I believe China is becoming a clown nation. The PLA stages endless military exercises in the East and South China Sea, and its media posts endless hate speeches against neighbors. Recently China´s navy even shot at a Vietnamese fishing vessel and conducted landing maneuver near Malaysia coast.
> 
> However they love to play the victim card, accusing Vietnam, Philippines and others of provocations. I´m afraid that Chinese military leaders vow to copy N. Korea style of provocation, turning the entire region into a battle field.
> 
> Mr Xi, where are you?
> 
> PS: for anyone, who is not aware: Global Times is the mouthpiece of the Communist Party of China.



don't you know that Mr Xi was born in a military family?


----------



## Srinivas

Viet said:


> I believe China is becoming a clown nation. The PLA stages endless military exercises in the East and South China Sea, and its media posts endless hate speeches against neighbors. Recently China´s navy even shot at a Vietnamese fishing vessel and conducted landing maneuver near Malaysia coast.
> 
> However they love to play the victim card, accusing Vietnam, Philippines and others of provocations. I´m afraid that Chinese military leaders vow to copy N. Korea style of provocation, turning the entire region into a battle field.
> 
> Mr Xi, where are you?
> 
> PS: for anyone, who is not aware: Global Times is the mouthpiece of the Communist Party of China.



The one who got strength off late and never know the supremacy will always behave like a bully and in a confused manner. The disputes in SCS and East Sea will do damage to China more than any country there.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

*Japanese Study Warns of China's Rising Military Assertiveness*


VOA News
March 29, 2013

A Japanese government-funded study published Friday is warning that China is becoming less afraid of angering its neighbors as it pursues a bolder maritime policy.

The annual report by the National Institute for Defense Studies said China's rising national strength and enhanced military capabilities are helping drive Beijing's rising assertiveness.

China-Japan relations have suffered since September when Tokyo nationalized a group of East China Sea islands that have been the focus of a decades-long dispute.

Beijing responded angrily. It began sending regular government ships to patrol the Japanese-controlled islands, in what observers say is an effort to establish de facto control of the area.

The Japanese report Friday said signs of Chinese aggression were evident before the island purchase. It said China's actions "clearly reveal it was meticulously preparing measures for advancing its claim over the islands from a very early stage."

Ralph Cossa, president of the Hawaii-based Pacific Forum, says the Japanese report is an attempt to "throw the ball back in China's court."

"The Chinese have said the problem was the nationalization of those islands, that this changed the status quo, and that it is all Japan's fault," said Cossa. "So the Japanese are trying to point out that the Chinese were already preparing to do this, they were already flexing their muscles in the South China Sea and they were already doing other things."

Cossa says there is a degree of truth to the argument of both sides. But he says the report will not likely change Japan's foreign policy since it is already well aware of what it is dealing with in China.

He says China may continue to "annoy" and "bully" the Japanese over the island issue, but he does not foresee a wider conflict between the two Asian powers.

"The real question is now that [Chinese President] Xi Jinping has fully come to power, will he want to defuse some of this or will he want to continue to ratchet it up?" asked Cossa. "We've seen some signals in both directions, so I think it's a little too soon to tell."

Observers are also watching Japan's new leader, Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, who is known for his nationalistic views and has taken a firm stance on the island issue since coming to power.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

Srinivas said:


> The one who got strength off late and never know the supremacy will always behave like a *bully *and in a confused manner. The disputes in SCS and East Sea will do damage to China more than any country there.


In short the big bully hits the road and threatens others around the corner. The most funny part is, the bully cries "foul".

One must know, Chinese navy recently conducted a war game in the Zengmu Reef (James Shoal), claiming it is China´s southernmost part. But where the hell is the 'southernmost point of Chinese territory'?

It lies actually under the sea: in a depth of 22 metres (72 ft)! It is invisible.


----------



## Srinivas

Viet said:


> In short the big bully hits the road and threatens others around the corner. The most funny part is, the bully cries "foul".
> 
> One must know, Chinese navy recently conducted a war game in the Zengmu Reef (James Shoal), claiming it is China´s southernmost part. But where the hell is the 'southernmost point of Chinese territory'?
> 
> It lies actually under the sea: in a depth of 22 metres (72 ft)! It is invisible.




Soon the bully will realize the policy of it in SCS is a failure and should not have done the bullying.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## deep hacker here

vietnam is india friend
india will save vietnam
chinese are scared
lol

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Fsjal

China and Vietnam should stop. This dispute is going no where. I say it's best to reach an agreement and send all fishing ships from both nations back home.


----------



## Viet

djsjs said:


> don't you know that Mr Xi was born in a military family?


Do you know if Xi still has the control over the army? I wonder if you can laugh when China becomes a military dictatorship.


----------



## shuttler

Fsjal said:


> China and Vietnam should stop. This dispute is going no where. I say it's best to reach an agreement and send all fishing ships from both nations back home.



This dispute will continue for real because vietnamese are belligerent in nature and we are ready to protect our territory intact!



Viet said:


> Do you know if Xi still has the control over the army? I wonder if you can laugh when China becomes a military dictatorship.



It aint matter who is in control and what label you insert into our name

As long as sovereignty is concerned we wont let up!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

deep hacker here said:


> *vietnam is india friend*
> india will save vietnam
> chinese are scared
> lol


Yeah, Vietnam welcomes you in the region. Let us staging some fun games. 



shuttler said:


> This dispute will continue for real because vietnamese are belligerent in nature and we are ready to protect our territory intact!


You moron. Your territory? can you tell me how you discovered the James Shoal?


shuttler said:


> It aint matter who is in control and what label you insert into our name
> 
> As long as *sovereignty *is concerned we wont let up!


You don´t want to end up as cannon fodder, do you?

Mr Xi repeatly demands the PLA must be loyal to him and the party. Why? Because he fears the PLA does not follow him. Wake up!


----------



## shuttler

Viet said:


> Yeah, Vietnam welcomes you in the region. Let us staging some fun games.



you will end up having your last breath in a second




> You moron. Your territory? can you tell me how you discovered the James Shoal?



you were a vassal state to us when our people were fishing in the terrirtory



> You don´t want to end up as cannon fodder, do you?



yeah cant want please fire the first shot and we are glad to end this never ending whining from the vietcongs for good!



> Mr Xi repeatly demands the PLA must be loyal to him and the party. Why? Because he fears the PLA does not follow him.



If it was not because of Xi and Hu, vietnam's illegal occupation in SCS would have ended long ago

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

POLITICS
*China puts itself above int&#8217;l law: Carl Thayer*


TUOITRENEWS
UPDATED : 03/29/2013 11:36 GMT + 7





_Captain Pham Quang Thanh on the fishing boat that was fired at by a Chinese naval boat off Hoang Sa (Paracel) Islands of Vietnam on March 20, 2013
_

*Commenting on the fact that a Chinese naval ship recently fired at a Vietnamese fishing boat *off Vietnam&#8217;s Hoang Sa (Pacacel) Islands in the East Sea, an Australian professor said that &#8220;if China steps up aggressive actions it will be counter-productive. China puts itself above international law by engaging in dangerous practices.&#8221;

Emeritus Professor Carlyle A. Thayer at the School of Humanities and Social Sciences under the University of New South Wales at the Australian Defense Force Academy in Canberra, made the statement in an interview with Tuoi Tre on Thursday.

When asked by Tuoi Tre about his comments on the incident that took place on March 20, the professor said, &#8220;As a consequence of China&#8217;s raising the status of Sansha city to a prefecture and establishing a military garrison, the People&#8217;s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) has been given enhanced responsibility to enforce China&#8217;s jurisdiction around the Paracel Islands.

&#8220;Vietnam can expect more incidents involving its fishermen as the weather improves. In May China will once again impose its unilateral fishing ban. China will step up patrols.&#8221;

The professor also said that *&#8220;it is rare for the PLAN to be directly involved in fishing incidents. The firing of the flares directly at a Vietnamese fishing boat is an irresponsible and dangerous act.* But it is better than firing live rounds. At the moment it is best to view this incident as an isolated one. If more PLAN ships become involved in enforcing Chinese jurisdiction against fishermen using similar tactics it will be a sign of the enhanced role of the military in policy-making towards the East Sea.&#8221;

He also answered some other questions from Tuoi Tre.

*Q: Do you see any motives behind this new incident? Is this because of the new leadership transition or the new arms deals with Russia that China wanted to test Vietnam's reactions or is it a test to the US as John Kerry is soon heading for a first Asia trip in two weeks' time?*

A: I would caution against finding larger causes for what I believe should be taken as an isolated incident. It is more likely that Chinese naval captains have been given wide latitude in their operations and can operate with impunity against Vietnamese or Filipino fishermen without fear of punishment. I doubt that firing flares at a Vietnamese fishing craft was designed to test Vietnam&#8217;s reactions. The Vietnamese government responded appropriately by lodging a formal protest.

The new leadership is now only beginning to unify China&#8217;s many of civilian enforcement agencies. It will take some time to co-ordinate their activities. I do not see this incident related to Russian arms sales to China. But it is likely China will show stronger determination in dealing with Secretary Kerry on maritime issues. But the dispute with China and Japan has higher priority. 

If China steps up aggressive actions in the East Sea it will be counter-productive. In my view the cause of this incident is a result of Chinese arrogance in asserting their claims to sovereignty in the East Sea and giving their local authorities too much leeway in dealing with encounters with foreign craft. China puts itself above international law by engaging in dangerous and unsafe practices.

*Q: Is there anything we can do for now as the fishing harassment has been going on for quite some time already? *

A: Vietnamese fishermen will always face harassment from Chinese authorities &#8211; whether civilian or military &#8211; because of the stance that the Chinese government has taken. If China really wanted to promote its peaceful rise and turn the East Sea into a region of &#8220;peace, cooperation and development,&#8221; it would negotiate a fishing agreement with Vietnam that permitted regulated fishing in disputed waters. Already the fisheries are being depleted due to overfishing and environmental pollution. 

Chinese fishermen are going further south to catch fish. Rather than act unilaterally, China should be seeking win-win solutions such as cooperating with other littoral states in effective fisheries management.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

shuttler said:


> you will end up having your last breath in a second


Do you want to threat India? You should know India is not a pushover.



Sanchez said:


> Oh, we are so scared of an Indian-Viet alliance! We know how capable they are in the rate of rape cases...
> What if they stop sending *Viet girls *over the border? We are really scared...


Do you want to be banned?


----------



## Luffy 500

Srinivas said:


> The one who got strength off late and never know the supremacy will always behave like a bully and in a confused manner.



Just like Indians started doing after 1000 year muslim rule. Its like pot calling the kettle black even though the pot here is India where as the kettle may not be all that black.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## djsjs

Viet said:


> Yeah, Vietnam welcomes you in the region. Let us staging some fun games. You moron. Your territory? can you tell me how you discovered the James Shoal?You don´t want to end up as cannon fodder, do you?Mr Xi repeatly demands the PLA must be loyal to him and the party. Why? Because he fears the PLA does not follow him. Wake up!


i remember you guys only troll in threads in relative to Vietnam or SCS.seems you took new orders that to troll in every thread about China!wish you get more money simultaneously

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Srinivas

Luffy 500 said:


> Just like Indians started doing after 1000 year muslim rule. Its like pot calling the kettle black even though the pot here is India where as the kettle may not be all that black.



Post reported for trolling, waste of time to discuss here


----------



## HongWu

Viet said:


> POLITICS
> *China puts itself above int&#8217;l law: Carl Thayer*


International law does not have 3000 nuclear weapons, stealth fighters and aircraft carriers! 

Vietnam will not finally learn it's lesson until the tanks crash through the border!




Fsjal said:


> China and Vietnam should stop. This dispute is going no where. I say it's best to reach an agreement and send all fishing ships from both nations back home.


Sovereignty over islands in the South China Sea is non-negotiable. But China could make a deal on sharing fishery and other resources. We have been saying this since the 1960s.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## EastSea

HongWu said:


> International law does not have 3000 nuclear weapons, stealth fighters and aircraft carriers!
> 
> Vietnam will not finally learn it's lesson until the tanks crash through the border!
> 
> 
> Sovereignty over the South China Sea is non-negotiable. But China could make a deal on sharing fishery and other resources.



base on number of nuclear weapons, stealth fighters and aircraft carriers Uncle Sam is your master, China copied such toys to bullying his neighbors, in reality toys made in China are fake and usless.

Islands belong to Vietnam from ancient time, Man Quing Dynasty China recognized it. Occupation with force is illegal.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

Viet said:


> Do you want to threat India? You should know India is not a pushover.
> 
> 
> Do you want to be banned?


He want to be a loser. He can't not say anything value to satisfies his stupid arrogant (well, chinese didn't have any value on this section), so he insult us.

Idiot alway like that, I thought you already know that.!?


----------



## mahatir

China is simply defending itself from american run puppets , Trust me America will not defend vietnam in an event of war , try to be smart and stay away from china .

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## peaceful

it was highly regrettable for the shooting in March, a Chinese navy ship fired but didn't sink the vietnamese boat.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## EastSea

peaceful said:


> it was highly regrettable for the shooting in March, a Chinese navy ship fired but didn't sink the vietnamese boat.



It's showed of aggressive face of China. Paracel Islands belong to Vietnam from ancient time. There is traditional fisher area of Vietnamese fishermen. China robbed Islands 1974, but can not swallow our Islands.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

mahatir said:


> China is simply defending itself from american run puppets , Trust me America will not defend vietnam in an event of war , try to be smart and stay away from china .



Vietnam defend the sovereignty of country, not depend on USA is by our side or not, idiot.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cirr

MSA 01&#65306;


----------



## EastSea

SU 30 MKI is in training course,.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Fsjal

China says its navy visited its southernmost territorial claim during military drills in the disputed Spratly Islands in the South China Sea.
The visit to James Shoal followed exercises that began Saturday marking a high-profile show of China's determination to stake its claim to territory in an area that is disputed by Vietnam, the Philippines, Taiwan, Malaysia and Brunei.
The official People's Daily online said Wednesday that one destroyer, two frigates and an amphibious landing ship took part in the drills around Chinese-controlled outcroppings. They involved hovercraft, ship-born helicopters, amphibious tanks, and land-based fighters and bombers, and were followed by a ceremonial visit Tuesday to James Shoal farther south.
The area is surrounded by shipping lanes and rich fishing grounds claimed in whole or in part by neighboring countries.


Read more: China holds landing exercises in South China Sea - Las Vegas Sun News



EastSea said:


> SU 30 MKI is in training course,.



Wrong plane. It's Su-30MK2V


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

EastSea said:


> Chinese air force jet crashes during air show.
> The Associated Press
> Posted : Friday Oct 14, 2011 8:18:24 EDT
> BEIJING &#8212; A Chinese air force jet crashed at an air show on Friday, leaving one of the pilots missing and presumed dead.



2 pilot dead & you laugh at their demise? Very classy. 

& wrong topic, genius. 

*Indonesia protested over China passports*

By Lionel Barber, David Pilling and Ben Bland in Jakarta





Marty Natalegawa©Getty

Indonesia has revealed that it protested to Beijing about China&#8217;s publication in its passports of its &#8220;nine-dash line&#8221; claim to almost the entire South China Sea.

Beijing&#8217;s decision to print the new map last year prompted protests from the Philippines and Vietnam, which also claim large parts of the South China Sea. India, which has a border dispute with China, also criticised Beijing&#8217;s move.

Marty Natalegawa, Indonesia&#8217;s foreign minister, told the Financial Times in an interview that Indonesia lodged a protest with Beijing several weeks after the new passports were issued,

&#8220;We said that usage of that passport should not be inferred as being a recognition of that claim,&#8221; he said. &#8220;We exercised nice low key diplomacy but getting our point across.&#8221;

At the time that the dispute arose last year, Mr Natalegawa said China&#8217;s move was &#8220;disingenuous&#8221; and that Beijing was &#8220;testing the water to see its neighbours&#8217; reactions&#8221;, according to the Jakarta Post.





_A page from a new Chinese passport shows a map that includes an area in the South China Sea inside a line of dashes representing maritime territory claimed by China. The Philippines, Vietnam, Taiwan, India &#8211; and now Indonesia &#8211; have criticised the map saying the new design violates their sovereignty. (Reuters photo)_

*But Indonesia made no public statement at the time about the fact that the nine-dash line cuts through its Exclusive Economic Zone in the gas-rich Natuna Sea, where international energy companies such as ExxonMobil and Total are operating.*

*Indonesia has long tried to play down its territorial dispute with Beijing for fear of upsetting relations with China, which is a key trade and investment partner.*

&#8220;We believe that by doing quiet diplomacy we get a better result,&#8221; said Evi Fitriani, an international relations expert at the University of Indonesia. &#8220;So I'm quite surprised that the foreign minister admitted making this protest.&#8221;

Ristian Atriandi Supriyanto, a maritime security analyst at S Rajaratnam School of International Studies in Singapore, said Indonesia was reluctant to increase tensions with China for fear of inflaming public opinion and risking a damaging economic backlash from Beijing.

*But he argued that there was an &#8220;increasing risk that Indonesia will be drawn into the fray&#8221; as China&#8217;s navy continues to grow at a much faster rate than Indonesia&#8217;s already inferior maritime forces.*

*As a thriving, young democracy and a member of the Group of 20 world&#8217;s largest economies, Indonesia is keen to play a more active role in regional and global diplomacy. But the rise of China and the recent US &#8220;pivot&#8221; to Asia have made it more difficult for Jakarta to maintain its traditional position of not aligning with any major powers while remaining friends with all.*

*&#8220;Indonesia is worried about China but they are more worried about being seen to be in any particular camp,&#8221; said a senior western diplomat in Jakarta.*

*Mr Natalegawa has spearheaded Indonesia&#8217;s rise on the world stage since he was appointed as foreign minister by President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono in 2009.*

*&#8220;We&#8217;ve been trying to be the country that connects the dots and brings different elements together in an appropriate and measured way,&#8221; he told the FT interview, citing Indonesia&#8217;s efforts to convince southeast Asian nations to form a united position on how to resolve maritime disputes with China and to encourage the repressive military junta that ruled Myanmar until 2011 to open up.*

But, despite his hopes for collaborative, multilateral diplomacy, the foreign minister accepted that the peace and stability that has allowed Asia to become a key driver of the global economy could come under threat because of the emergence of China as a major power.

&#8220;China&#8217;s rise, how it transpires, how it plays out, will really determine the state of the region, whether it&#8217;s part of the solution or part of the problem,&#8221; he said.

But, with some in Beijing fearing that the US rebalance toward Asia is designed to contain China, Mr Natalegawa warned that countries should be careful not to antagonise China unnecessarily.

*&#8220;In Indonesia on the whole we see China&#8217;s rise as an opportunity rather than a threat,&#8221; he said. &#8220;It&#8217;s how we respond to it that could become a threat.&#8221;*

High quality global journalism requires investment. Please share this article with others using the link below, do not cut & paste the article. See our Ts&Cs and Copyright Policy for more detail. Email ftsales.support@ft.com to buy additional rights. Indonesia protested over China passports - FT.com


----------



## Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> *Indonesia protested over China passports*
> 
> By Lionel Barber, David Pilling and Ben Bland in Jakarta


I read the news some days ago, that surprised me a bit. I had thought Indonesia never dared to critisise or protest against the big bully. I just wonder why you published the note now. 

Not because China navy staged a landing manouver before your house door?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Viet said:


> I read the news some days ago, that surprised me a bit. I had thought Indonesia never dared to critisise or protest against the big bully. I just wonder why you published the note now.
> 
> Not because China navy staged a landing manouver before your house door?






> &#8220;In Indonesia on the whole we see China&#8217;s rise as an opportunity rather than a threat,&#8221; he said. &#8220;It&#8217;s how we respond to it that could become a threat.&#8221;



The Foreign Minister merely send a note of protest, but it still doesn't mean whether will we react on it. China is Indonesia most important trading partner & we prefer to keep things in the down-low.



> &#8220;Indonesia is worried about China but they are more worried about being seen to be in any particular camp,&#8221; said a senior western diplomat in Jakarta.



In the meantime let's all see where this is going.


----------



## hurt

Viet said:


> I read the news some days ago, that surprised me a bit. I had thought Indonesia never dared to critisise or protest against the big bully. I just wonder why you published the note now.
> 
> Not because China navy staged a landing manouver before your house door?



In SCS ,you are the only target

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

hurt said:


> In SCS ,*you are the only target*


I doubt it´s true. Your target is hegemony over East and South China Sea, hence you are bullying Japan, Vietnam, Philippines, Malaysia, Brunei and Indonesia. Those countries have stakes in the region.

I think it is time for Japan and Vietnam to more coordinate their actions, form an alliance of the willings and stop you greedy Chinese.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## hurt

Viet said:


> I doubt it´s true. Your target is hegemony over East and South China Sea, hence you are bullying Japan, Vietnam, Philippines, Malaysia, Brunei and Indonesia. Those countries have stakes in the region.
> 
> I think it is time for Japan and Vietnam to more coordinate their actions, form an alliance of the willings and stop you greedy Chinese.



Malaysia and Indonesia have good relationship with china.

Philippines too weak. 

Japan?Hope for the best.No approval from US,they can do nothing.

I think that the only battle is between us.prepare for it


----------



## Viet

hurt said:


> Malaysia and Indonesia have good relationship with china.


I hope they will wake up one day and join a Vietnam-led alliance. 


hurt said:


> Philippines too weak.


 United we are strong, you know. Your aggressive policy makes us easier to convince all 9 ASEAN states to unite under Vietnamese banner.


hurt said:


> Japan?Hope for the best.No approval from US,they can do nothing.
> 
> I think that the only battle is between us.prepare for it


You are wrong. Japan alone can lift up all self-imposed restrictions. You are to blame that Japan will re-arm.


----------



## hurt

Viet said:


> I hope they will wake up one day and join a Vietnam-led alliance.
> 
> 
> United we are strong, you know. Your aggressive policy makes us easier to convince all 9 ASEAN states to unite under Vietnamese banner].:


daydreamTwo rich country led by your poor Vietnam

They both powerful than your poor Vietnam.



Viet said:


> You are wrong. Japan alone can lift up all self-imposed restrictions. You are to blame that Japan will re-arm.


Never.There are lots of US Occupation army in japan

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## hurt

Viet said:


> I hope they will wake up one day and join a Vietnam-led alliance.
> United we are strong, you know. Your aggressive policy makes us easier to convince all 9 ASEAN states to unite under Vietnamese banner.



ASEAN GDP nominal 2011 based on IMF data
Indonesia: 895.854 billions (1,211 billions)
Thailand: 376.989 billions (602.216 billions)
Malaysia: 307.178 billions (447.980 billions)
Singapore: 267.941 billions (314.906 billions)
Philippines: 257.890 billions (416.678 billions)
Vietnam: 137.681 billions (299 billions)

There 5 countries rich than you poor Vietnam.

Indonesia
Thailand
Malaysia
Burma
There 4 countries military powful than you weak Vietnam.

Lao&#65292;Indonesia and Malaysia have good relationship with china.
Thailand,Burma and Cambodia are chinese brothers.
Singapore is a ethnic Chinese country
under Vietnamese banner.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## king of pop

5Star said:


> Da Lat island
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Son Ca island
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Da Lon island
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Song Tu Tay island



well, i want to say "SORRY" to u. because my previous posts on Vietnam.....and i give such a rude comments on Vietnam. so please forgive me. and I have not shame to say sorry because its my guilty. and we know that India and Vietnam and Taipei are good frends. and India happily sell our arms to both country if u want to buy....

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## king of pop

5Star said:


> Da Lat island
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Son Ca island
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Da Lon island
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Song Tu Tay island


well i want to say "SORRY"
because my previous posts on Vietnam.....and i give such a rude comments on Vietnam. so please forgive me. and I have not shame to say sorry because its my guilty. and we know that India and Vietnam and Taipei are good frends. and India happily sell our arms to both country if u want to buy....

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

hurt said:


> daydreamTwo rich country led by your poor Vietnam
> They both powerful than your poor Vietnam.


Poor or rich is not important factor, more decisive is our IQ. Anyway what you see it is just a snapshot of time. Don´t forget, for over 1,000 years Vietnam was and is the only country in SE Asia, that is capable to challenge and stop China´s southwards expansion. 

Here is my plan: all other ASEAN states should pour money into Vietnam´s economy and army. Within a decade, Vietnam will become rich and powerful. Game over for you!


hurt said:


> d
> Never.There are lots of US Occupation army in japan


You know nothing of Japan´s politic. Should I repeat? Mr Abe can scrap the postwar constitutions if he wins the 2/3 votes of lawmakers and afterwards the majority of citizen votes in the national referendum. America has no veto right.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## NiceGuy

hurt said:


> daydreamTwo rich country led by your poor Vietnam
> 
> They both powerful than your poor Vietnam.


more powerful than us ?what a cheap joke,no ASEAN nations except VN have ballistic and nuke capable ballistic missile.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Soryu

@Viet: no need to step on his troll post, he just a hero keybroad and loser in real life, If he was a real citizen of mighty PRC that he said, so he should working hard to help pathetic life in his country, help improve power and good things for China, but he want to be stupid in here, so .... well, the rest is bullshjt.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## hurt

NiceGuy said:


> more powerful than us ?what a cheap joke,no ASEAN nations except VN have ballistic and nuke capable ballistic missile.



you means that poor Scud?
Can them reach Bangkok,Naypyidaw,Jakarta or Kuala Lumpur?
Plz tell me where are you nuke?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## faithfulguy

Viet said:


> I hope they will wake up one day and join a Vietnam-led alliance.
> United we are strong, you know. Your aggressive policy makes us easier to convince all 9 ASEAN states to unite under Vietnamese banner.
> 
> You are wrong. Japan alone can lift up all self-imposed restrictions. You are to blame that Japan will re-arm.




The only country that is big and strong enough to assert leadership in SE Asia is Indonesia, not the puny little Vietcongs. So the term "Vietnam led" does not make sense. Saved it.



Viet said:


> Poor or rich is not important factor, more decisive is our IQ. Anyway what you see it is just a snapshot of time. Don´t forget, for over 1,000 years Vietnam was and is the only country in SE Asia, that is capable to challenge and stop China´s southwards expansion.
> 
> Here is my plan: all other ASEAN states should pour money into Vietnam´s economy and army. Within a decade, Vietnam will become rich and powerful. Game over for you!
> 
> You know nothing of Japan´s politic. Should I repeat? Mr Abe can scrap the postwar constitutions if he wins the 2/3 votes of lawmakers and afterwards the majority of citizen votes in the national referendum. America has no veto right.



The American military in Japan is the veto power itself.



NiceGuy said:


> more powerful than us ?what a cheap joke,no ASEAN nations except VN have ballistic and nuke capable ballistic missile.



Stop being delusional that you have nuclear weapons. Vietcong is very weak besides digging rat holes. Follow the lead of Indonesia and Malaysia.


----------



## Soryu

Erase, 'cause I think no need to talking anything with idiot warrior keybroad in here... haizzz

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NiceGuy

faithfulguy said:


> Stop being delusional that you have nuclear weapons. Vietcong is very weak besides digging rat holes. Follow the lead of Indonesia and Malaysia.


Oh yeah,we r very weak,so dont just stay in U.S and bark,let go back to China ,grab a gun and fight now,lm sure that u will be the first one go home in body bag

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## shuttler

Viet said:


> I hope they will wake up one day and join a Vietnam-led alliance.



vietnam-led alliance of ghosts?



> United we are strong, you know. Your aggressive policy makes us easier to convince all 9 ASEAN states to unite under Vietnamese banner.



you people are fighting against one another. Where is the alliance?



> You are wrong. Japan alone can lift up all self-imposed restrictions. You are to blame that Japan will re-arm.



the japanese are also busy fighting with the russians and both koreans over their conflicts. How can it have the time to take care of you?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Sanchez

Viet said:


> LOL...are we now in a history teaching class?
> 
> Vietnam has many names in the long history, more than 2 dozens. The term "Vi&#7879;t" is cognate with the Chinese word "*Yue*", a name applied in ancient times to various non-Chinese groups who lived in what is now southern China and northern Vietnam.
> 
> 
> 28792524 BC	Xích Qu&#7927;
> 2524258 BC	V&#259;n Lang
> 257207 BC	Âu L&#7841;c
> 207111 BC	Nam Vi&#7879;t
> 111 BC39 AD	Giao Ch&#7881;
> 4043	L&#297;nh Nam
> 43299	Giao Ch&#7881;
> 299544	Giao Châu
> 544602	V&#7841;n Xuân
> 602679	Giao Châu
> 679757	An Nam
> 757766	Tr&#7845;n Nam
> 766866	An Nam
> 866967	T&#297;nh H&#7843;i quân
> 9681054	&#272;&#7841;i C&#7891; Vi&#7879;t
> 10541400	&#272;&#7841;i Vi&#7879;t
> 14001407	&#272;&#7841;i Ngu
> 14071427	Giao Ch&#7881;
> 14281804	&#272;&#7841;i Vi&#7879;t
> 18041839	Vi&#7879;t Nam
> 18391887	&#272;&#7841;i Nam
> 18871945	French Indochina (Tonkin, Annam, & Cochinchina)
> from 1945	Vi&#7879;t Nam
> 
> 
> 
> Actually at the beginning of 1800 century the Nguyen Emperor wanted to name the country as "Nam Viet", but China opposed it because it feared Vietnam could claim South of China.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nam-Viet 200bc



It's wrong to claim Nam Viet as part of your history. It was purely Chinese kindom in South China, and later they extended their territory into present day Vietnam. You could play around your first thousand years being Chinese and the second thousand years under Chinese, funny isn't it?



Viet said:


> LOL...are we now in a history teaching class?
> 
> Vietnam has many names in the long history, more than 2 dozens. The term "Vi&#7879;t" is cognate with the Chinese word "*Yue*", a name applied in ancient times to various non-Chinese groups who lived in what is now southern China and northern Vietnam.
> 
> 
> 28792524 BC	Xích Qu&#7927;
> 2524258 BC	V&#259;n Lang
> 257207 BC	Âu L&#7841;c
> 207111 BC	Nam Vi&#7879;t
> 111 BC39 AD	Giao Ch&#7881;
> 4043	L&#297;nh Nam
> 43299	Giao Ch&#7881;
> 299544	Giao Châu
> 544602	V&#7841;n Xuân
> 602679	Giao Châu
> 679757	An Nam
> 757766	Tr&#7845;n Nam
> 766866	An Nam
> 866967	T&#297;nh H&#7843;i quân
> 9681054	&#272;&#7841;i C&#7891; Vi&#7879;t
> 10541400	&#272;&#7841;i Vi&#7879;t
> 14001407	&#272;&#7841;i Ngu
> 14071427	Giao Ch&#7881;
> 14281804	&#272;&#7841;i Vi&#7879;t
> 18041839	Vi&#7879;t Nam
> 18391887	&#272;&#7841;i Nam
> 18871945	French Indochina (Tonkin, Annam, & Cochinchina)
> from 1945	Vi&#7879;t Nam
> 
> 
> 
> Actually at the beginning of 1800 century the Nguyen Emperor wanted to name the country as "Nam Viet", but China opposed it because it feared Vietnam could claim South of China.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nam-Viet 200bc



It's wrong to claim Nam Viet as part of your history. It was purely Chinese kindom in South China, and later they extended their territory into present day Vietnam. You could play around your first thousand years being Chinese and the second thousand years under Chinese, funny isn't it?


----------



## ViXuyen

faithfulguy said:


> The only country that is big and strong enough to assert leadership in SE Asia is Indonesia, not the puny little Vietcongs. So the term "Vietnam led" does not make sense. Saved it.
> 
> 
> 
> The American military in Japan is the veto power itself.
> 
> 
> 
> Stop being delusional that you have nuclear weapons. Vietcong is very weak besides digging rat holes. Follow the lead of Indonesia and Malaysia.


And China is keep losing over and over again to the weak and puny Viet Cong throughout history; how pathetic can it get for a Supa Bowah or supa bowah wannabe

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Fsjal

China denies starting fire on Vietnamese fishing boat | World news | guardian.co.uk


China has admitted firing flares at a Vietnamese fishing boat but denied the vessel caught fire as a result during a confrontation in disputed waters of the South China Sea.

Sailors on board a Chinese navy craft fired two flares at four Vietnamese boats that had earlier failed to respond to whistles, shouts and signal flags demanding that they cease fishing and leave the area, which China claims as its territorial waters, the defence ministry in Beijing said in a statement.

It said the ships were fishing off the Paracel Islands, which China regards as its own, on 20 March and both flares burned out in the air. Chinese forces did not fire weapons and no Vietnamese boats caught fire, the ministry said.

Vietnam also claims the Paracels and has said one of the boat's cabins caught fire in the incident, which it called "very serious". The government lodged a formal complaint with the Chinese embassy in Hanoi seeking compensation for the alleged damage and punishment of the Chinese sailors responsible.

Vietnam says the fishing boat was near the Paracels when an unidentified Chinese vessel chased it and fired the flare. China's navy responded that this was a "complete fabrication".

Chinese foreign ministry spokesman Hong Lei said on Tuesday that China had taken unspecified but "legitimate and reasonable" actions against Vietnamese boats working illegally in Chinese waters. He denied that any boats had been damaged.

Vietnam and China each claim large parts of the South China Sea. The Philippines, Malaysia, Taiwan and Brunei also maintain that parts of the sea are theirs.

Meanwhile China says its navy visited its southernmost territorial claim during military drills in the disputed Spratly Islands in the South China Sea.

The visit to James Shoal followed exercises that began on Saturday marking a high-profile show of China's determination to stake its claim to territory in the area.

The official People's Daily online said on Wednesday that one destroyer, two frigates and an amphibious landing ship took part in the drills around Chinese-controlled outcroppings. They involved hovercraft, ship-borne helicopters, amphibious tanks and land-based fighters and bombers, and were followed by a ceremonial visit on Tuesday to James Shoal farther south.

The area is surrounded by shipping lanes and rich fishing grounds claimed in whole or in part by neighbouring countries.



5Star said:


> And China is keep losing over and over again to the weak and puny Viet Cong throughout history; how pathetic can it get for a Supa Bowah or supa bowah wannabe



Vietnam is definitely a Supa Dupa Hypa Bowah


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

*The South China Sea, pivots and Indonesia*
Chappy Hakim, Jakarta | Opinion | Wed, April 03 2013, 11:01 AM


In the last three years, there have been a lot of seminars, workshops and panel discussions on the same topic, namely the South China Sea.

At a domestic level, Indonesia has held discussions on the South China Sea five times. These discussions were not taken lightly. Even experts from developed countries were invited to participate to provide more insight. The South China Sea is a very popular issue that most everyone, including the person on the street, has been talking about zealously.

The competing claims in the South China Sea are not something new. The area borders a great number of nations; naturally, it has been a long-standing source of conflicts. Disputes over several competing claims for various parts of the area are unlikely to be resolved within the short term.

*There are a number of reasons behind these claims. Take, for example, the dispute over the Spratly Islands &#8212; an area comprising 45 islands, which has been claimed in whole or in part by Vietnam, China, Taiwan, Malaysia, The Philippines and even Brunei Darussalam.*

One could imagine the scale of complications when dealing with such claims. Not to mention China, which forwarded its bid on the islands based on claims dating from the 15th century and the Ming Dynasty. So the potential for conflict has been there all along. For decades, nations around the South China Sea have used the issue of competing claims as a reason to prepare their armies for battle.

One interesting point is that in the past two or three years, discussion of the claims have typically been followed by discussions of the US&#8217; so-called Asia pivot. The US position has been affected by its economic problems, to the extent that the two men campaigning to be president last year put forward their differing views about China, either as a friend or foe. This happened simultaneously with the emergence of China&#8217;s economic power, which has consequently been accompanied by a massive increase in China&#8217;s defense budget and defense capabilities.

The last factor is a crucial, propelling the US to shift its attention to Asia under the aegis of the pivot, which several observers have said was a manifestation of US concerns on China&#8217;s growing influence and power. Others, meanwhile, have opined that the pivot was driven by the trauma caused by the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor during World War II. Thomas Friedman even described the surprise attack as the origins of American military failure.

Developments were taken to a new level when reports surfaced about a potential revitalization of the US&#8217; former military bases at Clark Field and Subic Bay in the Philippines, which some said would be done to bolster the US defense position in Singapore.

The most shocking reports have been that US Marines might be posted with US military aircraft to Darwin, Australia, with the mission of natural disaster management. This is absurd, as there has never been such a precedent.

*As if all this news was not alarming enough, Indonesia has had the privilege to be the recipient of a US grant for a huge number of American-made F-16 jet fighters. This is an unthinkable &#8220;kindness&#8221;, as previously the Air Force has had extreme difficulties in even getting spare parts for such fighter aircraft. Other reports say that Indonesia will be granted C-130H Hercules aircraft from Australia.*

*Meanwhile, the US Congress&#8217; unanimous approval of the purchase of AH-64 Apache attack helicopters by the Indonesian Military (TNI) has added another level of complication. A statement by the deputy defense minister that the purchase was not done in response to a US offer but instead to bolster the TNI&#8217;s defensive posture has stirred up the situation further.*

Unconsciously or not, can all these reports above be understood as part of the US pivot to Asia? People are starting to wonder why now. Given that the South China Sea has been a source of potential conflict for decades, why has the US decided to act now? Is it due to American fears over Chinese economic growth?

* One thing for sure, the locus of economic development has shifted, slowly but surely, from the Atlantic to the Indian and Pacific Oceans. The question for us to answer is how can the South China Sea disputes benefit Indonesia, economically or otherwise?*

_The writer is a former Air Force chief of staff._

The South China Sea, pivots and Indonesia | The Jakarta Post


----------



## cirr

CMS 8003 launched&#65306;


----------



## cirr

Mass production of 300-tonne CFA ships begins&#65306;






Belonging to the CMS's Guangxi Autonomous Region Fleet, these vessels will mainly be deployed in the Beibu Bay and drive away or detain illegal fishing boats from Vietnam.


----------



## hurt

cirr said:


> Mass production of 300-tonne CFA ships begins&#65306;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Belonging to the CMS's Guangxi Autonomous Region Fleet, these vessels will mainly be deployed in the Beibu Bay and drive away or detain illegal fishing boats from Vietnam.









Same type


----------



## hurt

cirr said:


> CMS 8003 launched&#65306;


----------



## Viet

Sanchez said:


> It's wrong to claim *Nam Viet as part of your history*. It was purely Chinese kindom in *South China*, and later they extended their territory into present day Vietnam. You could play around your first thousand years being Chinese and the second thousand years under Chinese, funny isn't it?








You are wrong. Nam Viet had been *an independent country* as it did not follow any orders and commands from Han´s. Nam Viet was populated by the Yue´s from South China, and the Viets from North Vietnam. The tribes Yue/Viet make up 90 per cent of Vietnam´s polulation today. And you say: Nam Viet cannot be as part of our history?

Well, for a long period of time many Vietnam´s emperors had seen the country as *South China Kingdom *or part of Sinosphere. So you are right in this part. You could say: there were two China´s: North and South China.





Sinosphere

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## hurt

Viet said:


> You are wrong. Nam Viet had been an independent country as it did not follow any orders and commands from Han´s. Nam Viet was populated by the Yue´s from South China, and the Viets from North Vietnam. The tribes Yue/Viet make up 90 per cent of Vietnam´s polulation today. And you say: Nam Viet cannot be as part of our history?
> 
> Well, for a long period of time many Vietnam´s emperors had seen the country as South China Kingdom or part of Sinosphere. So you are right in this part. You could say: there were two China´s: North and South China.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sinosphere



&#27809;&#25991;&#21270;


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> You are wrong. Nam Viet had been *an independent country* as it did not follow any orders and commands from Han´s. Nam Viet was populated by the Yue´s from South China, and the Viets from North Vietnam. The tribes Yue/Viet make up 90 per cent of Vietnam´s polulation today. And you say: Nam Viet cannot be as part of our history?
> 
> Well, for a long period of time many Vietnam´s emperors had seen the country as *South China Kingdom *or part of Sinosphere. So you are right in this part. You could say: there were two China´s: North and South China.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sinosphere



South China and North China as two countries exists only in your imagination.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## hurt

Viet said:


> You are wrong. Nam Viet had been *an independent country* as it did not follow any orders and commands from Han´s. Nam Viet was populated by the Yue´s from South China, and the Viets from North Vietnam. The tribes Yue/Viet make up 90 per cent of Vietnam´s polulation today. And you say: Nam Viet cannot be as part of our history?
> 
> Well, for a long period of time many Vietnam´s emperors had seen the country as *South China Kingdom *or part of Sinosphere. So you are right in this part. You could say: there were two China´s: North and South China.



The king of Nanyue is Zhao Tuo.
Zhao was born in around 230 BC in Zhending,which is in Hebei province nowadays,


----------



## Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> *South China* and North China as two countries exists only in your imagination.



No, that picture was seen by many Vietnamese emperors. Sure, China was not amused. 





_Noon gate at Hue citadel in Central Vietnam_


----------



## NiceGuy

No sighting of Chinese warships near waters, says KL
Yong Yen Nie
The Straits Times
Publication Date : 02-04-2013

The Malaysian government said its navy did not notice Chinese warships near its waters last Tuesday, despite China's assertion that it had sent four ships carrying troops and helicopters to the southernmost tip of its territorial claims in the South China Sea.

China had said its warships had gone to James Shoal, some 80km from Malaysian waters.

Malaysia's Foreign Ministry said it has taken note of the reports from Chinese state media but declined to comment further.

"Malaysia conducts regular patrols in the South China Sea but upon checking with the Royal Malaysian Navy and Malaysian Maritime Enforcement Agency, they did not report any sightings of the said Chinese navy ships within the vicinity of Malaysia," the spokesman for Wisma Putra, or the foreign ministry, told The Straits Times yesterday.

In an unprecedented move, Beijing undertook naval exercises at the southernmost point of its claims in the disputed waters, with its naval crew pledging to protect China's territorial sovereignty in the South China Sea.

Observers say this was the first time Chinese state media had publicised the naval theatrics and could be sending a signal to South-east Asian countries that it might resort to using force to get the islands.

Apart from China's navy possibly not entering waters claimed by Malaysia itself, analysts say another reason why Kuala Lumpur is downplaying China's move could be that it is currently focused on domestic affairs, with general elections just weeks away and the government still cracking down on Sulu militants in Sabah.

"The Malaysian government is seen to have turned more inward by focusing on domestic policies in recent years and it is more important for the government to drive out the Sulu militants and monitor people's movements in Sabah than respond to external movements at this point in time," Dr Joseph Liow, Associate Dean of the S. Rajaratnam School of International Studies, Nanyang Technological University, told The Straits Times.

Some 200 militants intruded into Sabah nearly two months ago, pressing long-ago claims on parts of the state.

The disruption has caused unhappiness among locals in Sabah, traditionally the ruling Barisan Nasional's stronghold in winning federal power in the general elections.

So "it's not surprising that Malaysia may not have kept its eye on the ball on the Chinese naval fleet's movement off Malaysia's coast," Dr Liow said.

Maritime analysts say the naval exercises could be an annual affair, as China steps up its territorial claims on the South China Sea islands, with parts also claimed by Vietnam and the Philippines.

Malaysia, Brunei and Indonesia have also laid claim to the nearby islands.

"There is little Southeast Asian countries can do about it, as none of the Asean countries have the size or resources to take on China," Dr Hamzah Ahmad, an academic specialising in maritime law and security at Universiti Malaya, told The Straits Times.

"Malaysia is likely to avoid confrontation with China so long as the economic ties China has with the region are not disrupted."
http://www.asianewsnet.net/No-sighting-of-Chinese-warships-near-waters-says-K-44876.html

It seems like Mr. 'Ah Q 'Xi Jinping made a Fake news in Jame shoal to fool all Chinese peasants

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

*China, ASEAN agree to develop code of conduct in South China Sea*


(Xinhua)
10:25, April 03, 2013 





BEIJING, April 2 (Xinhua) -- *All participants in the 19th China-ASEAN* (Association of Southeast Asian Nations) Senior Officials' Consultation have agreed to work toward a code of conduct in the South China Sea.

A Chinese Foreign Ministry press release on Tuesday said after the conclusion of the consultation it was agreed that all parties will commit themselves to fully implement the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea.

They will make joint efforts toward *"a code of conduct in the South China Sea" *and continue to exchange views on the issue.

According to the press release, China and ASEAN also agreed to co-host celebrations on the 10th anniversary of the establishment of the China-ASEAN strategic partnership and further expand friendly communication and cooperation in all fields.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Rechoice

hurt said:


> &#27809;&#25991;&#21270;



You have good rumor sens, &#27809;&#25991;&#21270;, yes, it's very funy.



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> South China and North China as two countries exists only in your imagination.



Han Emperor Liu Bang, was the founder and first emperor of the Han Dynasty in North, Zhao Tuo he founded is called the Zhao Dynasty in South, Nan Yue Guo.



hurt said:


> The king of Nanyue is Zhao Tuo.
> Zhao was born in around 230 BC in Zhending,which is in Hebei province nowadays,



Chiang Kai-shek came from Wo Yue in mainland, but he ruled Taiwan as independence state.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## HongWu

Viet said:


> *China, ASEAN agree to develop code of conduct in South China Sea*
> 
> 
> (Xinhua)
> 10:25, April 03, 2013
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BEIJING, April 2 (Xinhua) -- *All participants in the 19th China-ASEAN* (Association of Southeast Asian Nations) Senior Officials' Consultation have agreed to work toward a code of conduct in the South China Sea.
> 
> A Chinese Foreign Ministry press release on Tuesday said after the conclusion of the consultation it was agreed that all parties will commit themselves to fully implement the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea.
> 
> They will make joint efforts toward *"a code of conduct in the South China Sea" *and continue to exchange views on the issue.
> 
> According to the press release, China and ASEAN also agreed to co-host celebrations on the 10th anniversary of the establishment of the China-ASEAN strategic partnership and further expand friendly communication and cooperation in all fields.


Looks like China's recent amphibious island assault exercises and opening fire intimidated Vietnam and Philippines into submission.




ChineseTiger1986 said:


> South China and North China as two countries exists only in your imagination.


Yes South China aka Vietnam has the third most powerful army in the world.


----------



## hurt

Rechoice said:


> Chiang Kai-shek came from Wo Yue in mainland, but he ruled Taiwan as independence state.



Taiwan dont recognized In UN and will be a province of china very soon.
Are you want same as Taiwan ?


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Rechoice said:


> Chiang Kai-shek came from Wo Yue in mainland, but he ruled Taiwan as independence state.



Yeah, Chiang Kai Shek is a Viet, go take this trash with you, but Taiwan belongs to China.


----------



## Viet

hurt said:


> The king of *Nanyue *is Zhao Tuo.
> Zhao was born in around 230 BC in Zhending,which is in Hebei province nowadays,


Wait a moment. Can you tell me the names of all non-Han´s who ruled China?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

NiceGuy said:


> *No sighting of Chinese warships near waters, says KL*
> 
> It seems like Mr. 'Ah Q 'Xi Jinping made a Fake news in Jame shoal to fool all Chinese peasants


lol ...where were the CN warships? Maybe they produced the pics in a photoshop factory, as usual.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## hurt

Viet said:


> Wait a moment. Can you tell me the names of all non-Han´s who ruled China?



China officially recognizes 56 distinct ethnic groups,It is a country of 56 distinct ethnic groups ,not a country of Han.


----------



## Viet

hurt said:


> China officially recognizes 56 distinct ethnic groups,It is a country of 56 distinct ethnic groups ,not a country of Han.


I know whoever ruled China became Chinese. I wonder if the Viets ruled China one day, would we become Chinese, too?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> I know whoever ruled China became Chinese. *I wonder if the Viets ruled China one day, would we become Chinese, too?*



Have a nice dream then.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

hurt said:


> Taiwan dont recognized In UN and will be a province of china very soon.
> Are you want same as Taiwan ?



In the past, there wasn't UN, only Liu Bang and Zhao Tuo ruled his country. Taiwan is today "oversea territory" of Uncla Sam, Taiwanese enjoyed their life under protectorate of Uncle Sam indeed. 
We have been beating USA went home 1973, China 1979.



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Yeah, Chiang Kai Shek is a Viet, go take this trash with you, but Taiwan belongs to China.



China don't have chance to take Taiwan back, never

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Rechoice said:


> China don't have chance to take Taiwan back, never



Well, China has more chance to take Taiwan back than Vietnam exists as country in the next 20 years.


----------



## Soryu

Viet said:


> I know whoever ruled China became Chinese. I wonder if the Viets ruled China one day, would we become Chinese, too?



Not really, just some, "china" was country mergered from many ethnic and nations in history, with Confucianism and ideology of China, made them became chinese.


----------



## Viet

hurt said:


> We must go back home when we destroy all useful things of vietnam next time. We do not want the occupation of Vietnam&#12290;


Keep your brain updated a bit, dude. China CPC addicts to Vietnam´s demand of a Code of Conduct for the SC Sea. We scored another victory over the bully. You can go home, the war is canceled.

*
China, ASEAN agree to develop code of conduct in South China Sea*
Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...a-sea-news-discussions-117.html#ixzz2PUGSj6ku

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## faithfulguy

hurt said:


> if necessary&#65292;Any time.
> But There is no need to do it for a so weak vietnam.



There won't be any land battles between China and Vietnam. But a naval battle is likely. 

Vietnam can't even handle a smaller country like Taiwan. But some of Vietcongs are shamelessly talking about stopping the USN. In another word, the Vietcong bragging in here is no different from the Lil fat Kim bragging.


----------



## Viet

faithfulguy said:


> Why all the violence? The Taiwanese only want a better mail order bride deal. Or in another word, more bangs for a buck.


Look around you idiot, before you make such statement. 

First, make sure your mother is not from Vietnam. Second, nobody from your relatives and friends are from VN, either. Otherwise, they will spank your ***. Don´t tell me that I didn´t warn you.


----------



## Rechoice

faithfulguy said:


> There won't be any land battles between China and Vietnam. But a naval battle is likely.
> 
> Vietnam can't even handle a smaller country like Taiwan. But some of Vietcongs are shamelessly talking about stopping the USN. In another word, the Vietcong bragging in here is no different from the Lil fat Kim bragging.



Taiwan is under protection of Uncle Sam. Itu Aba belong to Vietnam from ancient time, we will take it back.


----------



## faithfulguy

Viet said:


> Look around you idiot, before you make such statement.
> 
> First, make sure your mother is not from Vietnam. Second, nobody from your relatives and friends are from VN, either. Otherwise, they will spank your ***. Don´t tell me that I didn´t warn you.



I have no Vietnamese relative. But you most likely have Chinese relatives as most modern Vietnamese is a mixture of Chinese and Vietnamese tribes from the old days. 

I have to admit that some Vietnamese brides are very attractive though. No wonder the GIs were happy when they love a long time.



Rechoice said:


> Taiwan is under protection of Uncle Sam. Itu Aba belong to Vietnam from ancient time, we will take it back.



If it belong to Vietnam, than how come Taiwan is in control of the island? Maybe your French overlord would no longer claim those islands at the time?

Maybe you should start digging a hole to that island.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

faithfulguy said:


> Why all the violence? The Taiwanese only want a better mail order bride deal. Or in another word, more bangs for a buck.



Number of Chinese ethnic in Vietnam is reduced recently, around 850.000 now, mostly in Mekong Delta, do you know why ?


----------



## Rechoice

faithfulguy said:


> I have no Vietnamese relative. But you most likely have Chinese relatives as most modern Vietnamese is a mixture of Chinese and Vietnamese tribes from the old days.
> 
> I have to admit that some Vietnamese brides are very attractive though. No wonder the GIs were happy when they love a long time.
> 
> If it belong to Vietnam, than how come Taiwan is in control of the island? Maybe your French overlord would no longer claim those islands at the time?
> 
> Maybe you should start digging a hole to that island.



For the bribes most of them are in original fujian ren. You can take back to Taiwan all ethnic chinese.
Taiwan robbed Island Itu Aba 1956 with force, it's illegal occupations.


----------



## yusheng

China, Brunei issue joint communique, vowing to boost ties  

English.news.cn 2013-04-05 23:42:13 

Xinhua Weibo
_





Chinese President Xi Jinping (L) accompanies Brunei's Sultan Hassanal Bolkiah (C) 
to inspect the guard of honor during a welcoming ceremony held by President Xi Jinping for 
Sultan Hassanal Bolkiah in Beijing, capital of China, April 5, 2013. [Xinhua/Liu Weibing]_ 



BEIJING, April 5 (Xinhua) -- China and Brunei issued a joint communique Friday, pledging to deepen relations and boost cooperation in all areas.

The two countries reiterated their mutual respect for sovereignty, territorial integrity and non-interference in each other's internal affairs, according to the communique.

Brunei reiterated that it will continue to adhere to the one China policy and support the peaceful development of relations across the Taiwan Strait and the peaceful reunification of China, the communique said.

The two countries agreed to establish a relationship of strategic cooperation in a bid to promote the peace, stability and prosperity of the two countries and the region at large, it said.

The two sides agreed to further boost economic, trade cooperation and carry out close cooperation in transportation, telecommunications, infrastructure construction and finance, it said.

The two sides also agreed to strengthen cooperation and communication in energy, agriculture, security, healthcare, culture, sports, education, tourism, religion, personnel exchanges and various other areas.

China extended congratulation to Brunei on assuming the rotating chair of ASEAN in 2013, and pledged full support for Brunei in hosting a series of important meetings, the communique said.

The two countries reaffirmed their commitments to maintaining peace and stability in the South China Sea and urged all relevant parties to continue to exercise self-restraint, deepen mutual trust and strengthen cooperation, according to the communique.

They underscored the importance of resolving territorial and jurisdictional disputes through peaceful dialogue and consultation by sovereign states directly involved in accordance with universally recognized principles of international laws, including the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, it said.

The two sides hope the countries concerned will further carry out the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea, and make efforts toward drawing up "a code of conduct in the South China Sea," it said.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## JohnSeb

The whole South China Sea is "MINE"

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Rechoice

*President Obama Meets With the Sultan of Brunei*

POSTED BY MEGAN SLACK / MARCH 13, 2013








On March 12, 2013, President Obama hosted His Majesty the Sultan of Brunei for a bilateral meeting in the Oval Office to affirm the relationship between our two countries that dates back more than 160 years.

The two leaders discussed their shared interest in a strong, peaceful, and prosperous Asia-Pacific region, and continued cooperation between our nations on a range of issues.

With Brunei set to host October's ASEAN East Asia Summit meeting, President Obama said they would be working together on "everything from how we deal with issues of energy and climate change to how we expand commerce, potentially through the Trans-Pacific Partnership that has the opportunity of creating jobs and prosperity here in the United States but also throughout the region."

President Obama also said that His Majesty has shown great leadership around maritime issues in the Asia-Pacific region, and noted his work to help youth in Southeast Asia learn English, which can help expand commerce and strengthen ties between the United States and the area.

Read full remarks from the meeting here.

Editor's Note: This entry originally appeared on the White House Blog.


----------



## Fsjal

Rechoice said:


> Taiwan is under protection of Uncle Sam. Itu Aba belong to Vietnam from ancient time, we will take it back.



Itu Aba belongs to Philippines...


----------



## faithfulguy

Fsjal said:


> Itu Aba belongs to Philippines...



So the Vietnames and Philippines are fight each other for Taiwanese land. This is neo imperialism.


----------



## Rechoice

faithfulguy said:


> So the Vietnames and Philippines are fight each other for Taiwanese land. This is neo imperialism.



Taiwan land is where the Formosa Repuplic was. Taiwan was part of Japan 1895-1945.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## faithfulguy

Rechoice said:


> Taiwan land is where the Formosa Repuplic was. Taiwan was part of Japan 1895-1945.



You should read up on history before making any comments.


----------



## Rechoice

faithfulguy said:


> You should read up on history before making any comments.



*Japanese rule*
Main articles: Taiwan under Japanese rule and Republic of Formosa
The Qing Dynasty was defeated in the First Sino-Japanese War (1894&#8211;1895) and Taiwan and Penghu were ceded in full sovereignty to the Empire of Japan. 

Read more. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Fsjal

faithfulguy said:


> So the Vietnames and Philippines are fight each other for Taiwanese land. This is neo imperialism.



Well since it's Taiwan's island as well, you can join too


----------



## Malaya

Fsjal said:


> Well since it's Taiwan's island as well, you can join too


Taiwan needs to be slapped in the face to wake it up from dreaming. It can't even announce independence from China and still not a sovereign nation, so how can they claim anything without being a country of their own?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## djsjs

Malaya said:


> Taiwan needs to be slapped in the face to wake it up from dreaming. It can't even announce independence from China and still not a sovereign nation, so how can they claim anything without being a country of their own?


why dont you guys give Taiwan a slap?hope you are brave enough to try.guess who will win?the 23 million population Taiwan or 96 million Philippine?though Taiwan navy is weak,enough to destroy your motherland

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Malaya

djsjs said:


> why dont you guys give Taiwan a slap?hope you are brave enough to try.guess who will win?the 23 million population Taiwan or 96 million Philippine?though Taiwan navy is weak,enough to destroy your motherland


Well Taiwan is also an ally of the US.

It may still be an advantage for us anyway against China because Taiwan is fiercely anti-communist and a strongly allied to the U.S.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## djsjs

Malaya said:


> Well Taiwan is also an ally of the US.
> 
> It may still be an advantage for us anyway against China because Taiwan is fiercely anti-communist and a strongly allied to the U.S.


^^ isn't it a slap to yourself for your post #1770?


----------



## cirr

PLAN new toy to join the melee in the SCS&#65306;

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Devil Soul

China To Open Disputed Islands To Tourism: Official
Boao, China, April 7, 2013 (AFP) -China is to open disputed South China Sea islands up to tourism this month, state media reported Sunday, a move likely to inflame a long-running territorial row with its neighbours.

The plans to allow tourists to visit the Paracel Islands before the May Day holiday is the latest stage in Beijing's development of the territory, which has previously angered Vietnam and caused concern in Washington.

Vietnam and China have a longstanding territorial row over the Paracel Islands. Hanoi last month accused a Chinese vessel of firing on one of its fishing boats which had sailed in disputed waters in the area.

The plan to allow cruise tours follows rapid development of infrastructure in a new city -- Sansha -- along with the establishment of an army garrison on one of the Paracels last year.

Tourists can only visit the islands on cruise ships as the hotels are inadequate, news agency Xinhua said, citing Tan Li, executive vice governor of the southern province of Hainan.

Tan was speaking on Saturday at the Boao Forum for Asia, which is being held in Hainan.

The report quoted a tourist company as saying its cruise ship was ready to take almost 2,000 passengers on a tour of the islands.

"The tour prices will be relatively high due to the high costs of tourism infrastructure construction," said Huang Huaru, general manager of the Hainan-based agency.

Officials said last month they were exploring tourist possibilities for Sansha, according to Xinhua, but no time frame was set.

Beijing claims most of the South China Sea, which is home to vital shipping lanes and substantial proven and estimated oil and gas deposits.

It has occupied the Paracels, known as Xisha in Chinese, since a brief war with South Vietnam in 1974.
Taiwan and ASEAN members the Philippines, Brunei and Malaysia all have rival claims to parts of the sea, while the United States is also watching China's increased assertiveness closely.


----------



## Rechoice

cirr said:


> PLAN new toy to join the melee in the SCS&#65306;



100kg TNT + 100kg TNT = 200 Kg TNT, sure enough.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NiceGuy

> "The tour prices will be relatively high due to the high costs of tourism infrastructure construction," said Huang Huaru, general manager of the Hainan-based agency.
> 
> Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...d-islands-tourism-official.html#ixzz2PmRtI7PP


No rich Chinese will risk their lives to travel to those dispute islands coz they may get headshot by our fishermen fishing aroud there

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ChinaToday

Very good news i definitely will visit the area next time i go to china



NiceGuy said:


> No rich Chinese will risk their lives to travel to those dispute islands coz they may get headshot by our fishermen fishing aroud there



You are using your imagination too much to post is it kinda retard you know?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Beast

ChinaToday said:


> Very good news i definitely will visit the area next time i go to china
> 
> 
> 
> You are using your imagination too much to post is it kinda retard you know?



He's a troller, don't bother by him...

Vietnam and China are friends. 

3 Chinese navy ships visit Vietnam - People's Daily Online
















You see the Vietnam government even welcome Chinese warship to Ho Chin Mn City and greet us with cheers!

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Viet

I wonder if there is anything to see on the islands? Most of the times the tiny islands are under sea level. Maybe Chinese tourists want to become fish meal for sharks waiting for them.

Have a nice meal. sharks!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Beast

Viet said:


> I wonder if there is anything to see on the islands? Most of the times the tiny islands are under sea level. Maybe Chinese tourists want to become fish meal for sharks waiting for them.
> 
> Have a nice meal. sharks!



I think is the other way round. Shark fin is one of the Chinese delicacy in China.


----------



## Viet

I think we will stage another street protest before* the Chinese embassy* in Berlin!


----------



## Beast

Viet said:


> I think we will stage another street protest before* the Chinese embassy* in Berlin!



Save your trouble. Even Vietnam communism government is suppressing any further protest against China in vietnam. China as your neighbour is a fact that might not even change in another 1000 years. You see my above post of Vietnam inviting PLAN to Ho Chin Min city for friendship visit. If Vietnam government dont see a problem , So what's the problem?


----------



## Fsjal

Viet said:


> I think we will stage another street protest before* the Chinese embassy* in Berlin!



How come they use South Vietnamese flags? I thought South Vietnam reunified with North Vietnam
----OFF TOPIC----
BTW, in second last picture where the woman holds a Tibet flag, the Tibet dispute is an internal affair of China.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Martian2

*Two critical facts*

1. The islands and seas within China's nine-dashed-lines map were discovered and claimed by China 2,000 years ago. China was the first discoverer and claimant of the South China Seas.

You can read about China's historical claims to the South China Seas over the last 2,000 years in the Chinese imperial dynastic records. There are also plenty of Chinese shipwrecks, buried bones, and buried artifacts (including wells) within the nine-dashed-lines map. China was there first and it belongs to them.

2. Among the South China Sea claimants, only one of the countries has a real navy (see videos below).

Combining points #1 (e.g. only China is the legitimate owner) and #2 (e.g. only China has the naval power to back its claims), it is clear that only China can claim sovereignty over the South China Seas.






"*Published on Feb 13, 2013*

A People's Liberation Army Navy fleet is on their way to Qingdao Port in northeast China after they finished intensive training missions in the West Pacific. During the training, the fleet held drills about attacks and defense, air defense and anti-submarine and over-the-horizon attack. Meanwhile, the training tested tactics, technical performances and computerized remote capacity of supplies."

----------






"*Published on Nov 23, 2012*

The Chinese People's Liberation Army Navy recently carried out live ammunition drills in the South China Sea and East China Sea. Vessel-airplane confrontation, vessel-submarine confrontation, air-defense and light weapon shootings were completed in the drills."

[Note: Don't bring up the United States. The U.S. does not recognize UNCLOS, is not a claimant to the South China Sea territory, and a Chinese megaton EMP warhead can easily neutralize any American surface fleet.]


----------



## Fsjal

Martian2 said:


> *Two critical facts*
> 
> 1. The islands and seas within China's nine-dashed-lines map were discovered and claimed by China 2,000 years ago. China was the first discoverer and claimant of the South China Seas.
> 
> You can read about China's historical claims to the South China Seas over the last 2,000 years in the Chinese imperial dynastic records. There are also plenty of Chinese shipwrecks, buried bones, and buried artifacts (including wells) within the nine-dashed-lines map. China was there first and it belongs to them.
> 
> 2. Among the South China Sea claimants, only one of the countries has a real navy (see videos below).
> 
> Combining points #1 (e.g. only China is the legitimate owner) and #2 (e.g. only China has the naval power to back its claims), it is clear that only China can claim sovereignty over the South China Seas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "*Published on Feb 13, 2013*
> 
> A People's Liberation Army Navy fleet is on their way to Qingdao Port in northeast China after they finished intensive training missions in the West Pacific. During the training, the fleet held drills about attacks and defense, air defense and anti-submarine and over-the-horizon attack. Meanwhile, the training tested tactics, technical performances and computerized remote capacity of supplies."
> 
> ----------
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "*Published on Nov 23, 2012*
> 
> The Chinese People's Liberation Army Navy recently carried out live ammunition drills in the South China Sea and East China Sea. Vessel-airplane confrontation, vessel-submarine confrontation, air-defense and light weapon shootings were completed in the drills."
> 
> [Note: Don't bring up the United States. The U.S. does not recognize UNCLOS, is not a claimant to the South China Sea territory, and Chinese megaton EMP warheads can easily neutralize any American surface fleet.]



So much for this dispute. Makes it harder for my government to claim it, but they can persuade the people by looking like the victim


----------



## Viet

Beast said:


> I think is the other way round. Shark fin is one of the *Chinese delicacy* in China.


I know. A true Chinese eats everything that moves, and things that don´t move, either.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## djsjs

Viet said:


> I know. A true Chinese eats everything that moves, and things that don´t move, either.


Hey!almost everyone here knows what we eat,but only Chinese know what you eat.
anyway ,l like the poem in the picture,especially the first sentence,&#21335;&#22269;(south country) is named with central empire as the reference system,and the &#21335;&#24093;(south king) are mostly Chinese,in fact the nobles are mostly Chinese too,only the poor are Vietnamnese.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

djsjs said:


> Hey!almost everyone here knows what we eat,but only Chinese know what you eat.
> anyway ,l like the poem in the picture,especially the first sentence,&#21335;&#22269;(south country) is named with central empire as the reference system,and the &#21335;&#24093;(south king) are mostly Chinese,in fact the nobles are mostly Chinese too,only the poor are Vietnamnese.


Well, tradionally Vietnam sees China as Central Kingdom or North Empire, while it sees itself as South Kingdom. Not poor Vietnamese. Where do you get: south Kings were mostly Chinese, and the nobles Chinese, too?

*Lý Th&#432;&#7901;ng Ki&#7879;t (1019&#8211;1105)*
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ly_Thuong_Kiet

*Vietnam&#8217;s first Declaration of Independence*

Nam qu&#7889;c s&#417;n hà Nam &#273;&#7871; c&#432;,
Ti&#7879;t nhiên &#273;&#7883;nh ph&#7853;n t&#7841;i thiên th&#432;.
Nh&#432; hà ngh&#7883;ch l&#7895; lai xâm ph&#7841;m,
Nh&#7919; &#273;&#7859;ng hành khan th&#7911; b&#7841;i h&#432;.

Over Mountains and Rivers of the South, reigns the Emperor of the South
As it stands written forever in the Book of Heaven
How dare those barbarians invade our land?
Your armies, without pity, will be annihilated.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Srinivas

@Viet are those Islands under Vietnam jurisdiction according to UNCLOS?


----------



## shuttler

NiceGuy said:


> No rich Chinese will risk their lives to travel to those dispute islands coz they may get headshot by our fishermen fishing aroud there



vietcong pirates dressing up as fishermen trying to commit homicide(s) on innocent tourists in Chinese waters!



Beast said:


> He's a troller, don't bother by him...
> 
> Vietnam and China are friends.
> 
> 3 Chinese navy ships visit Vietnam - People's Daily Online




We have to sort out friends from villains. The vietcong pirates have to be caught and punished

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## djsjs

@Viet
didnt your history teacher tell you that the kings of Nhà H&#7853;u Lý were Fujianese descendants&#65311;
in fact even your family name were from China.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## shuttler

Viet said:


> I think we will stage another street protest before* the Chinese embassy* in Berlin!
> http://www.unser-vietnam.de/images/stories/ereignisreich/Demo_Berlin_01.10.2011/7.jpg[/IMG]



Were you there amongst the revelers? It looks like less than 100 trouble makers there!



>



Nice adoption of our civilzation!



Viet said:


> I know. A true Chinese eats everything that moves, and things that don´t move, either.



So to become our enemy, you do the opposite to ours:

vietcongs eat everything that doesnt move, and things that move either?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## longyi

*The only hotel on disputed SCS*









Only hotel on disputed Paracels

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

China is a dirty sea pirate.


----------



## NiceGuy

Beast said:


> He's a troller, don't bother by him...
> 
> Vietnam and China are friends.
> 
> 3 Chinese navy ships visit Vietnam - People's Daily Online
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You see the Vietnam government even welcome Chinese warship to Ho Chin Mn City and greet us with cheers!


If you come to VN with goodwill, of course we will welcome you, that's normal. But if you try to mess up wt us, then we will teach you another lesson after 1979


----------



## NiceGuy

Martian2 said:


> *Two critical facts*
> 
> 1. The islands and seas within China's nine-dashed-lines map were discovered and claimed by China 2,000 years ago. China was the first discoverer and claimant of the South China Seas.
> 
> You can read about China's historical claims to the South China Seas over the last 2,000 years in the Chinese imperial dynastic records. There are also plenty of Chinese shipwrecks, buried bones, and buried artifacts (including wells) within the nine-dashed-lines map. China was there first and it belongs to them.
> 
> ]


Poor loser, try to fool himself like Ah Q, if you have enough evidence, then go to International court and talk, don't talk crap here


> *China refuses to participate in South China Sea arbitration*
> 
> He noted that continuation of the proceedings will require China to defend the nine-dash line as a singular exception to the system of maritime zones established by UNCLOS.
> 
> &#8220;Most scholars agree that the nine-dash line is indefensible in international law, and is precisely the kind of exaggerated maritime claim that UNCLOS was designed to suppress. The inherent weakness of the position is therefore a serious disincentive for China,&#8221; he said.
> CHINA REFUSES TO PARTICIPATE IN SOUTH CHINA SEA ARBITRATION - Asia Pacific Defense Forum in English





Martian2 said:


> 2. Among the South China Sea claimants, only one of the countries has a real navy (see videos below).
> 
> Combining points #1 (e.g. only China is the legitimate owner) and #2 (e.g. only China has the naval power to back its claims), it is clear that only China can claim sovereignty over the South China Seas.


Your cheap and low quality navy have No use in real combat. All kind of your warship can be sunk easily with our Shaddockm Yakhont, just forget the idea abt intercepting our anti-ship missile, we just simply shoot more missile than your anti-anti ship missile in your warship, then it surely wil be sunk

Game over for cheap and low quality PLAN, if you dont belive in what I said, then feel free to join in your PLAN and fight with VN, you can be the first one sunk with your cheap warship

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## armchairPrivate

I strongly suggest those Viet Minhs such as NiceGuy and whatnots book a cruise to the XIsha Islands and have a grant time. If you catch a fish or two, I assure you the Chinese would not fire on you.


----------



## cirr

Rechoice said:


> 100kg TNT + 100kg TNT = 200 Kg TNT, sure enough.



I hear the sound of a loser crying&#12290;


----------



## Martian2

I've been busy on Bloomberg (see last paragraph and citation below). I've made my presence felt in the mainstream media. What have you Viet nationalists accomplished lately besides trash-talking on this forum?

----------

*China's 2006 declared exemption from UNCLOS with regard to maritime boundaries*

China

*"China exempted itself in 2006 from disputes that involve sea boundaries, historic bays, military activities or initiatives of the UN Security Council."*

Declarations or Statements upon UNCLOS ratification

"China

[Original: Chinese]

Upon ratification (7 June 1996)1/:

In accordance with the decision of the Standing Committee of the Eighth National People's Congress of the People's Republic of China at its nineteenth session, the President of the People's Republic of China has hereby ratified the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea of 10 December 1982 and at the same time made the following statement:

1. In accordance with the provisions of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, the People's Republic of China shall enjoy sovereign rights and jurisdiction over an exclusive economic zone of 200 nautical miles and the continental shelf.

2. The People's Republic of China will effect, through consultations, the delimitation of the boundary of the maritime jurisdiction with the States with coasts opposite or adjacent to China respectively on the basis of international law and in accordance with the principle of equitability.

3. The People's Republic of China reaffirms its sovereignty over all its archipelagos and islands as listed in article 2 of the Law of the People's Republic of China on the territorial sea and the contiguous zone, which was promulgated on 25 February 1992.

4. The People's Republic of China reaffirms that the provisions of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea concerning innocent passage through the territorial sea shall not prejudice the right of a coastal State to request, in accordance with its laws and regulations, a foreign State to obtain advance approval from or give prior notification to the coastal State for the passage of its warships through the territorial sea of the coastal State.

*Declaration made after ratification (25 August 2006)

Declaration under article 298:

The Government of the People's Republic of China does not accept any of the procedures provided for in Section 2 of Part XV of the Convention with respect to all the categories of disputes referred to in paragraph 1 (a) (b) and (c) of Article 298 of the Convention.*"

----------

My comment on Bloomberg:

"Martin Su 3 minutes ago

UNCLOS has two serious problems.

1. The United States has refused to ratify UNCLOS (ie. UN Convention on the Law of the Sea). Therefore, UNCLOS is not international law.

2. China has arguably the world's second-strongest navy. China has publicly proclaimed it does not recognize UNCLOS jurisdiction over China's maritime boundaries.

In conclusion, the world's two most powerful maritime nations do not recognize UNCLOS authority over maritime law or boundaries. Hence, UNCLOS is not international law and it is only mere guidelines recognized by weak countries."

Reference link: China


----------



## cirr

5418-tonne &#8220;MSA 01&#8221; undergoing last trials before her maiden voyage to Australia&#65306;











It won't be long before dilapidated vessels of a certain monkey are chased&#12289;banished or detained by this beauty on the open SCS&#12290;

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ViXuyen

Martian2 said:


> I've been busy on Bloomberg (see last paragraph and citation below). I've made my presence felt in the mainstream media. What have you Viet nationalists accomplished lately besides trash-talking on this forum?


You can bi tch all you want to the white men, if you fail to control the Sprately, you're still considered as a weak nation.


----------



## Martian2

5Star said:


> You can bi tch all you want to the white men, if you fail to control the Sprately, you're still considered as a weak nation.



China does control the Spratlys. It is you weak Viets that are trying to garner American naval help. I'm out there on Bloomberg, BusinessWeek, Navy Times, etc. to convince Americans that there is no basis to help Southeast Asians. I think it's working.

While you Viets were hyperventilating in here, I was out there changing people's minds.

Presently, I rarely see an American publication claiming UNCLOS is international law. Similarly, I rarely see that claim in the comment sections anymore by Westerners. I've been out there for months informing everyone that the United States does not recognize UNCLOS. I think the message got through.

Feel free to keep mouthing off in here. I'll be out there in the mainstream media changing the view of mainstream Westerners. My goal is to remove as much Western public support for Vietnam as much as possible, because I think you Viets are late-coming trespassers on 2,000-year-old Chinese territory.

----------

My comment on Bloomberg:

"Martin Su 3 minutes ago

UNCLOS has two serious problems.

1. The United States has refused to ratify UNCLOS (ie. UN Convention on the Law of the Sea). Therefore, UNCLOS is not international law.

2. China has arguably the world's second-strongest navy. China has publicly proclaimed it does not recognize UNCLOS jurisdiction over China's maritime boundaries.

In conclusion, the world's two most powerful maritime nations do not recognize UNCLOS authority over maritime law or boundaries. Hence, UNCLOS is not international law and it is only mere guidelines recognized by weak countries."

Reference link: China


----------



## ViXuyen

Martian2 said:


> China does control the Spratlys. It is you weak Viets that are trying to garner American naval help. I'm out there on Bloomberg, BusinessWeek, Navy Times, etc. to convince Americans that there is no basis to help Southeast Asians. I think it's working.
> 
> I rarely see an American publication claiming UNCLOS is international law. Similarly, I rarely see that same claim in the comment sections anymore. I've been out there for months informing everyone that the United States does not recognize UNCLOS. I think the message got through.


We don't care what you Chinese cry infront of the white men, we do not recognize their opinions. Their opinions/laws/bibles are only worthy if they fit our agenda and I don't mind telling you we're very thick skinned about this. 

You will have to take it away from us and the best time is NOW. The Spratlys is in our hand and you can bi t ch all day that you want, nobody cares about a weak China who has to bit ch to the white men about its territory getting control by Viet Nam.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## NiceGuy

armchairPrivate said:


> I strongly suggest those Viet Minhs such as NiceGuy and whatnots book a cruise to the XIsha Islands and have a grant time. If you catch a fish or two, I assure you the Chinese would not fire on you.


Sorry,l dont wanna cruise on that China Titanic ship,my life is not valualess and cheap like you guys

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## NiceGuy

Martian2 said:


> China does control the Spratlys. It is you weak Viets that are trying to garner American naval help. I'm out there on Bloomberg, BusinessWeek, Navy Times, etc. to convince Americans that there is no basis to help Southeast Asians. I think it's working.
> 
> While you Viets were hyperventilating in here, I was out there changing people's minds.
> 
> Presently, I rarely see an American publication claiming UNCLOS is international law. Similarly, I rarely see that claim in the comment sections anymore by Westerners. I've been out there for months informing everyone that the United States does not recognize UNCLOS. I think the message got through.
> 
> Feel free to keep mouthing off in here. I'll be out there in the mainstream media changing the view of mainstream Westerners. My goal is to remove as much Western public support for Vietnam as much as possible, because I think you Viets are late-coming trespassers on 2,000-year-old Chinese territory.
> 
> ----------
> 
> My comment on Bloomberg:
> 
> "Martin Su 3 minutes ago
> 
> UNCLOS has two serious problems.
> 
> 1. The United States has refused to ratify UNCLOS (ie. UN Convention on the Law of the Sea). Therefore, UNCLOS is not international law.
> 
> 2. China has arguably the world's second-strongest navy. China has publicly proclaimed it does not recognize UNCLOS jurisdiction over China's maritime boundaries.
> 
> In conclusion, the world's two most powerful maritime nations do not recognize UNCLOS authority over maritime law or boundaries. Hence, UNCLOS is not international law and it is only mere guidelines recognized by weak countries."
> 
> Reference link: China


Who told u that China control Spratly ?i

If u strongly believe China cheap warship can have some use in real combat,then why u still in U.S,licking Black & white men's boots instead of Going back to China ,join PLAN and fight wt us ?Or what u r really thinking now is that it's much much better to lick Black& white's boots to earn money for living than dying in vain wt PLAN ?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Martian2

NiceGuy said:


> Who told u that China control Spratly ?if u believe China cheap warship can have some use in real combat,then why u still in U.S,licking Black & white mne's boots instead of Going back to China ,join PLAN and fight wt us ?



China controls the Spratlys and the rest of the South China Sea. See the two video citations below from "Russia Today." Surely, your eyes can see the proof. No amount of text from you Viets can change the truth. The PLA Navy is the master of the Spratlys and the South China Sea.

----------

*Two critical facts*

1. The islands and seas within China's nine-dashed-lines map were discovered and claimed by China 2,000 years ago. China was the first discoverer and claimant of the South China Seas.

You can read about China's historical claims to the South China Seas over the last 2,000 years in the Chinese imperial dynastic records. There are also plenty of Chinese shipwrecks, buried bones, and buried artifacts (including wells) within the nine-dashed-lines map. China was there first and it belongs to them.

2. Among the South China Sea claimants, only one of the countries has a real navy (see videos below).

Combining points #1 (e.g. only China is the legitimate owner) and #2 (e.g. only China has the naval power to back its claims), it is clear that only China can claim sovereignty over the South China Seas.






"*Published on Feb 13, 2013*

A People's Liberation Army Navy fleet is on their way to Qingdao Port in northeast China after they finished intensive training missions in the West Pacific. During the training, the fleet held drills about attacks and defense, air defense and anti-submarine and over-the-horizon attack. Meanwhile, the training tested tactics, technical performances and computerized remote capacity of supplies."

----------






"*Published on Nov 23, 2012*

The Chinese People's Liberation Army Navy recently carried out live ammunition drills in the South China Sea and East China Sea. Vessel-airplane confrontation, vessel-submarine confrontation, air-defense and light weapon shootings were completed in the drills."

[Note: Don't bring up the United States. The U.S. does not recognize UNCLOS, is not a claimant to the South China Sea territory, and a Chinese megaton EMP warhead can easily neutralize any American surface fleet.]

----------

Chinese submarines cruise South China Sea - People's Daily Online

*Chinese submarines cruise South China Sea*
&#65288;China Military Online&#65289; 08:47, January 25, 2013






A submarine of a submarine flotilla of the South China Sea Fleet under the Navy of the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) is cruising in the South China Sea on a sunny day in mid-January 2013. (China Military Online)





Upon its arrival at the predetermined sea area, the submarine started the drill of laying underwater mines. (China Military Online)





Upon its arrival at the predetermined sea area, the submarine started the drill of laying underwater mines. (China Military Online)

The depth sensor finally read 200 meters. Luo Zuyun, captain of the submarine, said that in this depth we could eliminate the threat from satellite-sounding and the natural noises of the sea with a positive sound velocity gradient could drown out those of the submarine, therefore, the submarine could remain undiscovered in the sea.

Upon its arrival at the predetermined sea area, the submarine started the drill of laying underwater mines. In recent years, the flotilla has completed actual-troop live-ammunition drills on such subjects as underwater torpedo salvo, underwater over-the-horizon missile attack, underwater concealed mining and blockade and great depth navigation, and joint military exercises on such important subjects as joint attack and joint blockade in cooperation with surface ships and aviation force.


----------



## NiceGuy

Martian2 said:


> China controls the Spratlys and the rest of the South China Sea. See the two video citations below from "Russia Today." Surely, your eyes can see the proof. No amount of text from you Viets can change the truth. The PLA Navy is the master of the Spratlys and the South China Sea.
> 
> ----------



LOL, masturbation is dangerous to health and mind

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Martian2

*China controls entire islands in the South China Sea. Vietnam controls a few shacks.*

You forgot something important. Chinese-Taipei controls the largest island. China controls most of the other large-sized islands. You Vietnamese are squatting on some tiny rocks. You can't put a flag on a map and claim to control the same real estate.

For example, China controls Sansha City on Yongxing Island. Notice that Sansha City has a very long runway to land Chinese aircraft. Do you see the plane in the bottom-right of the picture?





"The island of Sansha City, The State Council has approved the set China plans to establish a prefecture-level city called Sansha at the Island of Yongxing (also known as Woody Island), to manage the Xisha, Zhongsha and Nansha islands and their surrounding areas in the South China Sea." (Source: China Announces Intention to Garrison Disputed South China Sea | Defense Update - Military Technology & Defense News)

----------

In contrast, Vietnam controls shacks on tiny rocks in the South China Sea.





Vietnam controls shacks in the South China Sea. "Vietnamese installation on Collins Reef (Johnson North Reef) &#39740;&#21898;&#30977;, Union Group &#20061;&#31456;&#32676;&#30977;, Spratly Islands." (Source: Adventure, regret, anger: one Global Times reporter&#8217;s epic South China Sea journey | southseaconversations)


----------



## Beast

NiceGuy said:


> Who told u that China control Spratly ?i
> 
> If u strongly believe China cheap warship can have some use in real combat,then why u still in U.S,licking Black & white men's boots instead of Going back to China ,join PLAN and fight wt us ?Or what u r really thinking now is that it's much much better to lick Black& white's boots to earn money for living than dying in vain wt PLAN ?



Cheap warship by China? You mean the same warship that Sunk VN warships and killed 46 Vietnamese militia sailors in 1989 spratly island battle? 

So you are saying Vietnamese navy is 10 times worst than PLAN? Are you insulting your own navy? 



NiceGuy said:


> Sorry,l dont wanna cruise on that China Titanic ship,my life is not valualess and cheap like you guys



Vietnamese life is even cheaper than Chinese. And yours is the cheapest

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Beast

5Star said:


> We don't care what you Chinese cry infront of the white men, we do not recognize their opinions. Their opinions/laws/bibles are only worthy if they fit our agenda and I don't mind telling you we're very thick skinned about this.
> 
> You will have to take it away from us and the best time is NOW. The Spratlys is in our hand and you can bi t ch all day that you want, nobody cares about a weak China who has to bit ch to the white men about its territory getting control by Viet Nam.



Aren't t you the same one inviting US 7 fleet to your water for exercise and suxking up to the white man for protection? Talking about coward, so who is the one? You weakling vietnam are to weak to fight PLAN. So you need to kowtow to the same white master who rape and murder 3 million Vietnamese 30 years ago. 
Dog even have more pride than you fanboy Vietnamese.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NiceGuy

Beast said:


> Cheap warship by China? You mean the same warship that Sunk VN warships and killed 46 Vietnamese militia sailors in 1989 spratly island battle?
> 
> So you are saying Vietnamese navy is 10 times worst than PLAN? Are you insulting your own navy?


That couldn't count as naval battle, we had No warship, no anti-ship missile that time.

We don't need Naval fleet to sink your cheap warship in SCS(east sea) coz this sea is too small for full scale naval abttle, anti-ship missile is enough. got it low IQ boy ?


> Vietnamese life is even cheaper than Chinese. And yours is the cheapest


Only low life people wanna drown on your Titanic ship when cruising to dispute zone, Chinese lives are so cheap, that's why they willing to die wt a bulet hole in their head in Paracel

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ViXuyen

I don't care what you guys say or what your white men think, it does not change anything about us controlling the Spratley. Here again are the pictures of the islands that we control . We even control Truong Sa Lon island which has fresh water
http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-far-east/196058-south-china-sea-news-discussions.html

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NiceGuy

Martian2 said:


> *China controls entire islands in the South China Sea. Vietnam controls a few shacks.*
> 
> You forgot something important. Chinese-Taipei controls the largest island. China controls most of the other large-sized islands. You Vietnamese are squatting on some tiny rocks. You can't put a flag on a map and claim to control the same real estate.
> )


Chinese-Taipei are still alive just bcz they lick US's boots and beg for protection. Chinese-Taipei have No voice in the conflict. We will take Itu-aba back when U.S fall bcz of economics problem.

This isl's name is 'Big Spratly' controlled by VN.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

Srinivas said:


> @Viet are those Islands under Vietnam jurisdiction according to *UNCLOS*?


Yes, some parts of Paracel islands are about 400km from VN´s coast line, so within reach of Vietnam´s EEZ of 370km (200 nautical miles per UNLCOS).

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Beast

NiceGuy said:


> That couldn't count as naval battle, we had No warship, no anti-ship missile that time.
> 
> We don't need Naval fleet to sink your cheap warship in SCS(east sea) coz this sea is too small for full scale naval abttle, anti-ship missile is enough. got it low IQ boy ?
> 
> Only low life people wanna drown on your Titanic ship when cruising to dispute zone, Chinese lives are so cheap, that's why they willing to die wt a bulet hole in their head in Paracel



So much of your cheap talk. When you lose, you would not count as battle? You say then it will be?  
Go one corner and cry, you loser!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Srinivas

Viet said:


> Yes, some parts of Paracel islands are about 400km from VN´s coast line, so within reach of Vietnam´s EEZ of 370km (200 nautical miles per UNLCOS).



It is good idea to send your 1000 Fisher men trawlers and protesters

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## walle

Get real, Vietnam has no capabilities to take any islands. How do you plan to take the island back when you have no sea worthy assault ships to even try? Quit hallucinating, Vietnam has no capacity now or in the distant future to assert its claims using force. Its gap between the other countries is just too big.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Fsjal

Vietnam should not engage on the Chinese, and the same with China vice versa. Vietnam lacks capability while China would cripple their own economy.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

djsjs said:


> @Viet
> didnt your history teacher tell you that the kings of Nhà H&#7853;u Lý were *Fujianese *descendants&#65311;
> in fact even your family name were from China.


The Sino-Vietnam relationship is complicated, its history shows many common points, has good and bad sides. We are very similar, more than any other two nations in the world.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Beast

Srinivas said:


> It is good idea to send your 1000 Fisher men trawlers and protesters



Another loser come here and cry foul? Evade question of your Indian navy lack of projection power in any ocean and need to talk nonsense here. You too, go one corner and cry.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Srinivas

Beast said:


> Another loser come here and cry foul? Evade question of your Indian navy lack of projection power in any ocean and need to talk nonsense here. You too, go one corner and cry.



Chinese logic and debating skills are well known by the way you lost your argument in that debate, as usual you people won't agree

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Beast

Srinivas said:


> Chinese logic and debating skills are well known by the way you lost your argument in that debate, as usual you people won't agree



Indian thick skin mentality and master of lying is for all to see. Facts are not needed and fantasy is your prove. I heard the deal with rafale just fall out? I guess you Indian can just go one corner and cry mummy.


----------



## Rechoice

cirr said:


> I hear the sound of a loser crying&#12290;



You can not hear nothing when TNT is getting to explosion.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Srinivas

Beast said:


> Indian thick skin mentality and master of lying is for all to see. Facts are not needed and fantasy is your prove. I heard the deal with rafale just fall out? I guess you Indian can just go one corner and cry mummy.



Rafale is not concelled we are bargaining for 100 % tech transfer, not like you who build airframes and try to steal tech related to Engine , Radar and Avionics. 

You airforce official came out and cried that chinese are too bent up on listening to orders and they cannot innovate 

India will buy the tech and build up on that. Ever heard about AMCA a true 5th gen fighter not like your canard J20 which is an absurd for stealth tech.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Rechoice

djsjs said:


> @Viet
> didnt your history teacher tell you that the kings of Nhà H&#7853;u Lý were Fujianese descendants&#65311;
> in fact even your family name were from China.





Viet said:


> The Sino-Vietnam relationship is complicated, its history shows many common points, has good and bad sides. We are very similar, more than any other two nations in the world.



Chinese have a habitat to lying, like H&#7891; Chí Minh ís Chinese. 

Lý Công U&#7849;n came from village &#272;ình B&#7843;ng, B&#7855;c Ninh province near Hà N&#7897;i, where are living Kinh people.

Read more.Nhà Lý và &#273;ây n&#7919;a 
&#32993;&#24535;&#26126;&#29983;&#24179;&#32771; http://trieunguyen.kilu.de/HoChiMinhBinhSanhKhao.html

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Maxtini

> My comment on Bloomberg:
> 
> "Martin Su 3 minutes ago
> 
> UNCLOS has two serious problems.
> 
> 1. The United States has refused to ratify UNCLOS (ie. UN Convention on the Law of the Sea). Therefore, UNCLOS is not international law.
> 
> 2. China has arguably the world's second-strongest navy. China has publicly proclaimed it does not recognize UNCLOS jurisdiction over China's maritime boundaries.
> 
> In conclusion, the world's two most powerful maritime nations do not recognize UNCLOS authority over maritime law or boundaries. Hence, UNCLOS is not international law and it is only mere guidelines recognized by weak countries."


Congratulation, China has become the new United States!

I find it really amusing that for since the formation of People's Republic of China, China always denouncing US for it unilateral and arrogant attitude towards international convention and law.

Now, once China become stronger militarily, it behaves just like what US did and do. Maybe even worse, as China did ratified UNCLOS, while US decided not to sign and ratify it.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Cyberian

China to let tourists visit disputed South China Sea islets
_Monday, April 08, 2013_

*BEIJING*: China will this month start allowing tourists to visit the Paracel Islands, one of a group of disputed islets and reefs in the South China Sea, state news agency Xinhua said, a move likely to irk rival claimant Vietnam. 

A cruise ship that can accommodate 1,965 passengers is ready for sailing to the Paracels, known in Chinese as Xisha, Xinhua reported, citing ship owner Haihang Group Corp. 

Hainan Harbour and Shipping Holdings Co is building another cruise ship. 

*Tourists will eat and sleep on the cruise ships and can land on the islands for sightseeing* ahead of Labour Day on May 1, Tan Li, vice governor of Chinas southernmost island province of Hainan, told Xinhua late on Saturday. 

There is only one hotel with 56 rooms on the two-sq-km Woody Island, the largest island in the Paracels, the agency said. 

Prices will be relatively high due to the high costs of tourism infrastructure construction, Huang Huaru, general manager of a tourism agency in Hainan, told Xinhua. 

*Last year, China approved the formal establishment of a military garrison in Sansha city, which is located on Woody Island. The city administers the mostly uninhabited islands in the South China Sea which China claims. *

Tan said local authorities will build more supply ships and infrastructure in Sansha, including ports, water supply and sewage treatment facilities. 

*China took full control of the Paracels - a cluster of close to 40 islets, outcrops and reefs - in 1974 after a naval showdown with the then South Vietnam, and there have been incidents ever since.* Taiwan also claims the Paracels. 

Last month Vietnam accused China of opening fire on a fishing boat near the Paracels and burning down its cabin, charges Beijing denied. 

Vietnam, Taiwan, Brunei, Malaysia and the Philippines also claim other parts of the South China Sea, including the Spratly Islands. China has a separate dispute with Japan in the East China Sea. reuters

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan


----------



## Rechoice

Paracels Islands is part of Vietnam territory. China occupied illegally with force 1974.











Vietnam has been controlled Islands from ancient time, Chinese are aggressors.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## JSCh

Maxtini said:


> Congratulation, China has become the new United States!
> 
> I find it really amusing that for since the formation of People's Republic of China, China always denouncing US for it unilateral and arrogant attitude towards international convention and law.
> 
> Now, once China become stronger militarily, it behaves just like what US did and do. Maybe even worse, as China did ratified UNCLOS, while US decided not to sign and ratify it.


Declarations or Statements upon UNCLOS ratification


> Introduction:
> 
> Article 310 of the Convention allows States and entities to make declarations or statements regarding its application at the time of signing, ratifying or acceding to the Convention, which do not purport to exclude or modify the legal effect of the provisions of the Convention.
> Article 310 reads:
> 
> "Article 310. Declarations and statements "Article 309 does not preclude a State, when signing, ratifying or acceding to this Convention, from making declarations or statements, however phrased or named, with a view, inter alia, to the harmonization of its laws and regulations with the provisions of this Convention, provided that such declarations or statements do not purport to exclude or to modify the legal effect of the provisions of this Convention in their application to that State."
> 
> *Article 287, paragraph 1, provides that States and entities, when signing, ratifying or acceding to the Convention, or at any time thereafter, may make declarations specifying the forums for the settlement of disputes which they accept.*
> Article 287, paragraph 1, reads:
> 
> "Article 287. Choice of procedure "When signing, ratifying or acceding to this Convention or at any time thereafter, a State shall be free to choose, by means of a written declaration, one or more of the following means for the settlement of disputes concerning the interpretation or application of this Convention:
> 
> (a) the International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea established in accordance with Annex VI;
> (b) the International Court of Justice;
> (c) an arbitral tribunal constituted in accordance with Annex VII;
> (d) a special arbitral tribunal constituted in accordance with Annex VIII for one or more of the categories of disputes specified therein."
> 
> In addition, article 298, paragraph 1, allows States and entities to declare that they exclude the application of the compulsory binding procedures for the settlement of disputes under the Convention in respect of certain specified categories kinds of disputes. Article 298, paragraph 1, reads:
> 
> "Article 298. Optional exceptions to applicability of section 2
> 
> "1. When signing, ratifying or acceding to this Convention or at any time thereafter, a State may, without prejudice to the obligations arising under section 1, declare in writing that it does not accept any one or more of the procedures provided for in section 2 with respect to one or more of the following categories of disputes:
> 
> (a)(i) disputes concerning the interpretation or application of articles 15, 74 and 83 relating to sea boundary delimitations, or those involving historic bays or titles, provided that a State having made such a declaration shall, when such a dispute arises subsequent to the entry into force of this Convention and where no agreement within a reasonable period of time is reached in negotiations between the parties, at the request of any party to the dispute, accept submission of the matter to conciliation under Annex V, section 2; and provided further that any dispute that necessarily involves the concurrent consideration of any unsettled dispute concerning sovereignty or other rights over continental or insular land territory shall be excluded form such submission;
> (ii) after the conciliation commission has presented its report, which shall state the reasons on which it is based, the parties shall negotiate an agreement on the basis of that report; if these negotiations do not result in an agreement, the parties shall, by mutual consent, submit the question to one of the procedures provided for in section 2, unless the parties otherwise agree;
> (iii) this subparagraph does not apply to any sea boundary dispute finally settled by an arrangement between the parties, or to any such dispute which is to be settled in accordance with a bilateral or multilateral agreement binding upon those parties;
> 
> (b) disputes concerning military activities, including military activities by government vessels and aircraft engaged in non-commercial service, and disputes concerning law enforcement activities in regard to the exercise of sovereign rights or jurisdiction excluded from the jurisdiction of a court or tribunal under article 297, paragraph 2 or 3;
> 
> (c) disputes in respect of which the Security Council of the United Nations is exercising the functions assigned to it by the Charter of the United Nations, unless the Security Council decides to remove the matter from its agenda or calls upon the parties to settle it by the means provided for in this Convention."


In another word, it is within the UNCLOS charter that countries are allowed to make declaration on what they chose to abide by. And they are allowed to do this at any time they want to. The UNCLOS is after all termed just as a convention.


----------



## hurt

Rechoice said:


> Paracels Islands is part of Vietnam territory. China occupied illegally with force 1974.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vietnam has been controlled Islands from ancient time, Chinese are aggressors.



China has been controlled Vietnam from ancient time,Vietnam are rebel

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## faithfulguy

Srinivas said:


> Rafale is not concelled we are bargaining for 100 % tech transfer, not like you who build airframes and try to steal tech related to Engine , Radar and Avionics.
> 
> You airforce official came out and cried that chinese are too bent up on listening to orders and they cannot innovate
> 
> India will buy the tech and build up on that. Ever heard about AMCA a true 5th gen fighter not like your canard J20 which is an absurd for stealth tech.



I think AMCA will be the 6th generation fighter. Not a 5th generation fighter.


----------



## cirr

Fsjal said:


> Vietnam should not engage on the Chinese, and the same with China vice versa. Vietnam lacks capability while China would cripple their own economy.



Vietnam cripple China's economy&#65311;

The size of the Vietnamese economy is only 60% that of Yunnan&#8216;s&#65292;a province that borders Vietnam and is considered one of China's poorer regions&#12290;


----------



## faithfulguy

cirr said:


> Vietnam cripple China's economy&#65311;
> 
> The size of the Vietnamese economy is only 60% that of Yunnan&#8216;s&#65292;a province that borders Vietnam and is considered one of China's poorer regions&#12290;



What he is saying is that if China go to war with Vietnam, China's economy would be crippled by the war itself.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## JSCh

Declarations or Statements upon UNCLOS ratification


> Philippines
> 
> Understanding made upon signature (10 December 1982) and confirmed upon ratification (8 May 1984) 8/ 9/
> 
> 1. The signing of the Convention by the Government of the Republic of the Philippines shall not in any manner impair or prejudice the sovereign rights of the Republic of the Philippines under and arising from the Constitution of the Philippines.
> 
> 2. Such signing shall not in any manner affect the sovereign rights of the Republic of the Philippines as successor of the United States of America, under and arising out of the Treaty of Paris between Spain and the United States of America of 10 December 1898, and the Treaty of Washington between the United States of America and Great Britain of 2 January 1930.
> 
> 3. Such signing shall not diminish or in any manner affect the rights and obligations of the contracting parties under the Mutual Defence Treaty between the Philippines and the United States of America of 30 August 1951 and its related interpretative instruments; nor those under any other pertinent bilateral or multilateral treaty or agreement to which the Philippines is a party.
> 
> *4. Such signing shall not in any manner impair or prejudice the sovereignty of the Republic of the Philippines over any territory over which it exercises sovereign authority, such as the Kalayaan Islands, and the waters appurtenant thereto.*
> 
> 5. The Convention shall not be construed as amending in any manner any pertinent laws and Presidential Decrees or Proclamation of the Republic of the Philippines; the Government of the Republic of the Philippines maintains and reserves the right and authority to make any amendments to such laws, decrees or proclamations pursuant to the provisions of the Philippines Constitution.
> 
> 6. The provisions of the Convention on archipelagic passage through sea lanes do not nullify or impair the sovereignty of the Philippines as an archipelagic State over the sea lanes and do not deprive it of authority to enact legislation to protect its sovereignty, independence and security.
> 
> 7. The concept of archipelagic waters is similar to the concept of internal waters under the Constitution of the Philippines, *and removes straits connecting these waters with the economic zone or high sea from the rights of foreign vessels to transit passage for international navigation.*
> 
> 8. The agreement of the Republic of the Philippines to the submission for peaceful resolution, under any of the procedures provided in the Convention, of disputes under article 298 shall not be considered as a derogation of Philippines sovereignty.


Kalayaan, Palawan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


> *The Spratly Archipelago or the Spratlys is the international reference to the entire archipelago wherein the Kalayaan Chain of Islands is located.* In so far as claims are concerned, the People's Republic of China (PRC), the Republic of China (ROC; on Taiwan) and Vietnam claim the entire archipelago. The Philippines essentially claims the eastern section of the Spratlys, which is near to Palawan. Malaysia occupies seven reefs. It is unknown whether Brunei claims Louisa Reef in the southern part of the Spratlys which is still underwater or not. Unlike other claimants, Brunei does not maintain any military presence in the Spratlys.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## faithfulguy

These islands would be great resort islands. Each island could be an all inclusive resort with its own beaches, coral reefs for scuba diving, surfing, paragliding, etc. Americans, Europeans and Japanese like these kind of vacation. Maybe Chinese would learning to appreciate tropical resorts.


----------



## Sonyuke_Songpaisan

Rechoice said:


> Paracels Islands is part of Vietnam territory. China occupied illegally with force 1974.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vietnam has been controlled Islands from ancient time, Chinese are aggressors.


&#65321;&#65350;&#12288;&#65369;&#65359;&#65365;&#12288;&#65347;&#65345;&#65358;&#12288;&#65360;&#65362;&#65359;&#65366;&#65349;&#12288;&#65364;&#65352;&#65345;&#65364;&#12288;&#65364;&#65352;&#65359;&#65363;&#65349;&#12288;&#65353;&#65363;&#65356;&#65349;&#65364;&#65363;&#12288;&#65345;&#65362;&#65349;&#12288;&#65369;&#65359;&#65365;&#65362;&#65363;&#65292;&#12288;&#65364;&#65352;&#65349;&#65358;&#12288;&#65367;&#65349;&#12288;&#65347;&#65345;&#65358;&#12288;&#65360;&#65362;&#65359;&#65366;&#65349;&#12288;&#65364;&#65352;&#65345;&#65364;&#12288;&#65334;&#65353;&#65349;&#65364;&#65358;&#65345;&#65357;&#65349;&#12288;&#65353;&#65363;&#12288;&#65359;&#65365;&#65362;&#65363;


----------



## JSCh

Declarations or Statements upon UNCLOS ratification


> Malaysia
> 
> 
> 
> Upon ratification (14 October 1996):
> 
> In accordance with article 310 of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, the Government of Malaysia makes the following declarations:
> 
> *1. The Malaysian Government is not bound by any domestic legislation or by any declaration issued by other States upon signature or ratification of this Convention. Malaysia reserves the right to state its position concerning all such legislations or declarations at the appropriate time. In particular, Malaysia's ratification of the Convention in no way constitutes recognition of the maritime claims of any other State having signed or ratified the Convention, where such claims are inconsistent with the relevant principles of international law and the provisions of the Convention on the Law of the Sea and which are prejudicial to the sovereign rights and jurisdiction of Malaysia in its maritime areas.*
> 
> 2. The Malaysian Government understands that the provisions of article 301, prohibiting "any threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the principles of international law embodied in the Charter of the United Nations", apply in particular to the maritime areas under the sovereignty or jurisdiction of the coastal State.
> 
> 3. The Malaysian Government also understands that the provisions of the Convention do not authorize other States to carry out military exercises or manoeuvres, in particular those involving the use of weapons or explosives in the exclusive economic zone without the consent of the coastal State.
> 
> 4. In view of the inherent danger entailed in the passage of nuclear-powered vessels or vessels carrying nuclear material or other material of a similar nature and in view of the provision of article 22, paragraph 2, of the Convention on the Law of the Sea concerning the right of the coastal State to confine the passage of such vessels to sea lanes designated by the State within its territorial sea, as well as that of article 23 of the Convention, which requires such vessels to carry documents and observe special precautionary measures as specified by international agreements, the Malaysian Government, with all of the above in mind, requires the aforesaid vessels to obtain prior authorization of passage before entering the territorial sea of Malaysia until such time as the international agreements referred to in article 23 are concluded and Malaysia becomes a party thereto. Under all circumstances, the flag State of such vessels shall assume all responsibility for any loss or damage resulting from the passage of such vessels within the territorial sea of Malaysia.
> 
> 5. The Malaysian Government also wishes to reiterate the statement relating to article 233 of the Convention in its application to the Straits of Malacca and Singapore which has been annexed to a letter dated 28 April 1982 transmitted to the President of the Third United Nations Conference on the Law of the Sea.
> 
> 6. The ratification of the Convention by the Malaysian Government shall not in any manner affect its rights and obligations under any agreements and treaties on maritime matters entered into which the Malaysian Government is a party.
> 
> 7. The Malaysian Government interprets article 74 and article 83 to the effect that in the absence of agreement on the delimitation of the exclusive economic zone or continental shelf or other maritime zones, for an equitable solution to be achieved, the boundary shall be the median line, namely a line every point of which is equidistant from the nearest points of the baselines from which the breadth of the territorial sea of Malaysia and of such other States is measured.
> 
> Malaysia is also of the view that in accordance with the provisions of the Convention, namely article 56 and article 76, if the maritime area is less [than] or to a distance of 200 nautical miles from the baselines, the boundary for the continental shelf and the exclusive economic zone shall be on the same line (identical).
> 
> 8. The Malaysian Government declares, without prejudice to article 303 of the Convention on the Law of the Sea, that any objects of an archaeological and historical nature found within the maritime areas over which it exerts sovereignty or jurisdiction shall not be removed, without its prior notification and consent.


----------



## JSCh

Declarations or Statements upon UNCLOS ratification


> China
> 
> [Original: Chinese]
> 
> Upon ratification (7 June 1996)1/:
> 
> In accordance with the decision of the Standing Committee of the Eighth National People's Congress of the People's Republic of China at its nineteenth session, the President of the People's Republic of China has hereby ratified the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea of 10 December 1982 and at the same time made the following statement:
> 
> 1. In accordance with the provisions of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, the People's Republic of China shall enjoy sovereign rights and jurisdiction over an exclusive economic zone of 200 nautical miles and the continental shelf.
> 
> 2. The People's Republic of China will effect, through consultations, the delimitation of the boundary of the maritime jurisdiction with the States with coasts opposite or adjacent to China respectively on the basis of international law and in accordance with the principle of equitability.
> 
> *3. The People's Republic of China reaffirms its sovereignty over all its archipelagos and islands as listed in article 2 of the Law of the People's Republic of China on the territorial sea and the contiguous zone, which was promulgated on 25 February 1992.*
> 
> 4. The People's Republic of China reaffirms that the provisions of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea concerning innocent passage through the territorial sea shall not prejudice the right of a coastal State to request, in accordance with its laws and regulations, a foreign State to obtain advance approval from or give prior notification to the coastal State for the passage of its warships through the territorial sea of the coastal State.
> 
> Declaration made after ratification (25 August 2006)
> 
> Declaration under article 298:
> 
> *The Government of the People's Republic of China does not accept any of the procedures provided for in Section 2 of Part XV of the Convention with respect to all the categories of disputes referred to in paragraph 1 (a) (b) and (c) of Article 298 of the Convention.*



 SUBMISSION IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE DEPOSIT OBLIGATIONS PURSUANT TO THE UNITED NATIONS CONVENTION ON THE LAW OF THE SEA (UNCLOS) -- CHINA


----------



## Rechoice

hurt said:


> China has been controlled Vietnam from ancient time,Vietnam are rebel





Sonyuke_Songpaisan said:


> &#65321;&#65350;&#12288;&#65369;&#65359;&#65365;&#12288;&#65347;&#65345;&#65358;&#12288;&#65360;&#65362;&#65359;&#65366;&#65349;&#12288;&#65364;&#65352;&#65345;&#65364;&#12288;&#65364;&#65352;&#65359;&#65363;&#65349;&#12288;&#65353;&#65363;&#65356;&#65349;&#65364;&#65363;&#12288;&#65345;&#65362;&#65349;&#12288;&#65369;&#65359;&#65365;&#65362;&#65363;&#65292;&#12288;&#65364;&#65352;&#65349;&#65358;&#12288;&#65367;&#65349;&#12288;&#65347;&#65345;&#65358;&#12288;&#65360;&#65362;&#65359;&#65366;&#65349;&#12288;&#65364;&#65352;&#65345;&#65364;&#12288;&#65334;&#65353;&#65349;&#65364;&#65358;&#65345;&#65357;&#65349;&#12288;&#65353;&#65363;&#12288;&#65359;&#65365;&#65362;&#65363;


Chinese aggressors invaded in to Vietnam, we have been beating you ran away from Vietnam many time.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## JSCh

Declarations or Statements upon UNCLOS ratification


> Viet Nam
> 
> Upon ratification (25 July 1994) 13/:
> 
> The Socialist Republic of Viet Nam, by ratifying the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, expresses its determination to join the international community in the establishment of an equitable legal order and in the promotion of maritime development and cooperation.
> 
> *The National Assembly reaffirms the sovereignty of the Socialist Republic of Viet Nam over its internal waters and territorial sea; the sovereign rights and jurisdiction in the contiguous zone, the exclusive economic zone and the continental shelf of Viet Nam, based on the provisions of the Convention and principles of international law; and calls on other countries to respect the above-said rights of Viet Nam.
> *
> The National Assembly reiterates Viet Nam's sovereignty over the Hoang Sa and Truong Sa archipelagoes and its position to settle those disputes relating to territorial claims as well as other disputes in the Eastern Sea through peaceful negotiations in the spirit of equality, mutual respect and understanding, and with due respect of international law, particularly the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, and of the sovereign rights and jurisdiction of the coastal States over their respective continental shelves and exclusive economic zones; the concerned parties should, while exerting active efforts to promote negotiations for a fundamental and long-term solution, maintain stability on the basis of the status quo, refrain from any act that may further complicate the situation and from the use of force or threat of force.
> 
> *The National Assembly [differentiates] between the settlement of the dispute over the Hoang Sa and Truong Sa archipelagoes and the defence of the continental shelf and maritime zones falling under Viet Nam's sovereignty, rights and jurisdiction,* based on the principles and standards specified in the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea.
> 
> The National Assembly [authorizes] the National Assembly's Standing Committee and the Government to review all relevant national legislation to consider necessary amendments in conformity with the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, and to safeguard the interests of Viet Nam.
> 
> *The National Assembly authorizes the Government to undertake effective measures for the management and defence of the continental shelf and maritime zones of Viet Nam.*

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## JSCh

Republic of China (Taiwan) did not sign the UNCLOS. However,

Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Republic of China (Taiwan)


> *Declaration of the Republic of China on the Outer Limits of Its Continental Shelf*
> 
> No. 003 12 May, 2009 The Republic of China (ROC), as a Contracting Party to the 1958 Geneva Convention on the Continental Shelf, enjoys sovereign rights over its continental shelf under international law. The principles of the 1958 Convention have been incorporated into the relevant provisions of the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS). Moreover, customary international law also confirms that coastal states possess sovereign rights over the exploration of continental shelf and the exploration of natural resources thereof. This Government has long supported such basic tenets. As a matter of fact, this Government promulgated the Law on the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf of the Republic of China on 21 January 1998, in which Article 2 stipulates that the continental shelf of the Republic of China is the submerged area that extents throughout the natural prolongation of its land territory to the outer edge of the continental margin.* The Government of the Republic of China reiterates that the Diaoyutai Islands, Nansha Islands (Spratly Islands), Shisha Islands (Paracel Islands), Chungsha Islands (Macclesfield Islands), and Tungsha Islands (Pratas Islands) as well as their surrounding waters are the inherent territories and waters of the Republic of China based on the indisputable sovereignty titles justified by historic, geographic and international legal grounds. Under international law, the Republic of China enjoys all the rights and interests over the foregoing islands, as well as the surrounding waters and sea-bed and subsoil thereof. The claims made or occupation undertaken over them by any other state for whatever reason and by whatever means will be void and null in the eyes of international law.* As a costal State, the Republic of China since 2006 has actively initiated an investigation and related preparatory work for collecting the scientific data needed to establish its claims over the outer limits of its continental shelf in accordance with Article 76 of the UNCLOS as well as the requirements of the Scientific and Technical Guidelines of the Commission on the Limits of the Continental Shelf. As indicated by the materials collected through the said investigation undertaken by this Government, the continental margin to the east of Taiwan and the continental margin along the East China Sea to the northeast of Taiwan can be used by this country to claim its extended continental shelf. The related scientific evidence proves that the span of natural prolongation of the continental shelf of this country goes beyond 200 nautical miles from the territorial sea baselines in the "Eastern Taiwan Waters" and the "East China Sea Waters". Parts of such extended continental shelf overlap with the continental shelf claimed by the neighboring countries of the Republic of China. This Government has recruited experts in the legal, policy, scientific and technical fields to make every endeavor in the preparatory work for the drawing up of the outer limits of the continental shelf of the ROC.*As this Country was not invited to participate in the negotiation and signing of the UNCLOS, it was unable to become a party state to the UNCLOS. As a result, this government is not legally bound by the SPLOS/72 and SPLOS/183 decisions made by the Meetings of the Contracting Parties to the UNCLOS.* Accordingly, the making of claims over the extended continental shelf by this country is not constrained by the date of 12 May 2009. After this date, this country shall remain entitled to make claims on the outer limits of its extended continental shelf beyond 200 nautical miles with respect to the waters of the East China Sea, the Eastern Taiwan, and the South China Sea. Article 76, paragraph 10 of the UNCLOS provides, [t]he provisions of this article are without prejudice to the question of delimitation of the continental shelf between States with opposite or adjacent coasts. Since this country and its neighboring countries have not reached any agreements on the maritime delimitation of the surrounding waters, the resolution of the issues regarding the maritime delimitation between this country and its neighboring countries should be made in accordance with international law and the equitable principle through the conclusion of an agreement. Pending the conclusion of such an agreement, the government of the Republic of China calls upon all concerned parties in the region to assist in preserving the regional maritime legal order. Together we should maintain regional peace and stable development and substantively promote positive relations under the principle of joint exploitation and resources-sharing.&#65288;E&#65289;


----------



## terranMarine

Rechoice said:


> Chinese aggressors invaded in to Vietnam, we have been beating you ran away from Vietnam many time.



So why haven't you taken Xisha back by now?


----------



## Rechoice

terranMarine said:


> So why haven't you taken Xisha back by now?



China used force to rob Islands of Vietnam 1974, this action is illegal under rules of International Laws. China can not swallow Island of Vietnam.


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

terranMarine said:


> So why haven't you taken Xisha back by now?



I heard some of those guys saying that Guangdong and Guangxi belongs to them as well.


----------



## terranMarine

Rechoice said:


> China used force to rob Islands of Vietnam 1974, this action is illegal under rules of International Laws. China can not swallow Island of Vietnam.



You are avoiding my question, you said you vietcongs beat us many times. So why can't you beat us and grab the islands now? The answer is obvious and you are ashamed to admit it cause it will contradict your perception of VN beating China many times.



Chinese-Dragon said:


> I heard some of those guys saying that Guangdong and Guangxi belongs to them as well.



I'm surprised they haven't said they have defeated China many times so China has been part of their empire. We should have been colonized by those viets according to their delusions.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Rechoice

Chinese-Dragon said:


> I heard some of those guys saying that Guangdong and Guangxi belongs to them as well.



You are Nan Yue Guo people, you have lost your identity, you are ruled by Hans. You can fight with Hans and regain independence of Nan Yue State.



terranMarine said:


> You are avoiding my question, you said you vietcongs beat us many times. So why can't you beat us and grab the islands now? The answer is obvious and you are ashamed to admit it cause it will contradict your perception of VN beating China many times.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm surprised they haven't said they have defeated China many times so China has been part of their empire. We should have been colonized by those viets according to their delusions.



at the end of invasion of Chinese, your ancestors ran away, forget It ? let Mongolian and Mancus rule you, it was enough.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

Rechoice said:


> You are Nan Yue Guo people, you have lost your identity, you are ruled by Hans. You can fight with Hans and regain independence of Nan Yue State.



We are Han.  DNA tests show that both North and South Chinese share the same DNA.

In any case, I am a Hong Kong Cantonese of Hakka descent. Which means my ancestors came from the North China plains, the heartland of Chinese civilization.

Only 7 million Chinese people in my small city alone, have double the GDP of the entire country of Vietnam which has 100 million people. We are as different as night and day.

And forget about Guangdong. Guangdong province alone, has an annual output of $1 trillion, more than most countries.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

*No country *in the world recognises the Paracel islands belong to China. So pirates from China: pls pack your stuffs and leave the islands!

_*Ancient documents prove Vietnam's control over Paracel Islands*_






An instruction issued by a general of the Tay Son Dynasty dated February 14, 1786, instructed the Hoang Sa flotilla to send four boats to Hoang Sa to carry gold, silver, bronze and seafood products to the capital.







A document discovered in My Loi village, Phu Loc district in the central province of Thua Thien-Hue with contents of a lawsuit between My Toan and An Bang wards over the dispute of a broken ship of the Hoang Sa flotilla which drifted into the shore. According to this document, the Hoang Sa flotilla operated in 1760, under the reign of King Le Hien Tong. This flotilla was responsible to manage and explore specialties from Hoang Sa Archipelago. The document was in Chinese scripts, on day do (do paper).







A four-page document preserved by the Dang family on Ly Son Island of the central province of Quang Ngai, which noted that on April 15, 1834, Quang Ngai officials sent three ships to guard Hoang Sa Archipelago. Researchers said that this document contains valuable information, including the names and the hometown of each soldier.







A wood-block of the Nguyen Dynasty, in the Dai Nam Thuc Luc Chinh Bien De Nhi Ky historical book, 1836, noted that Hoang Sa was part of Vietnam's territory.







One of the reports of Da Nang authorities dated June 26, 1830, sent to the court said that Vietnamese soldiers on Hoang Sa archipelago rescued a French cargo ship in Hoang Sa waters.







A report to King Minh Mang dated July 13, 1837 about a trip to Hoang Sa of the Hoang Sa flotilla.







Another report dated June 21, 1838, to the King about the exploration and mapping of Hoang Sa Archipelago.







A document with King Bao Dai's approval dated February 3, 1939, on Vietnam's management over and sending troops to Hoang Sa.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

Viet said:


> *No country *in the world recognises the Paracel islands belong to China. So pirates from China: pls pack your stuffs and leave the islands!



What country in the world said that the Paracel islands belong to Vietnam?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

Chinese-Dragon said:


> We are Han.  DNA tests show that both North and South Chinese share the same DNA.
> 
> In any case, I am a Hong Kong Cantonese of Hakka descent. Which means my ancestors came from the North China plains, the heartland of Chinese civilization.
> 
> Only 7 million Chinese people in my small city alone, have double the GDP of the entire country of Vietnam which has 100 million people. We are as different as night and day.
> 
> And forget about Guangdong. Guangdong province alone, has an annual output of $1 trillion, more than most countries.



DNA don't say nothing about this matter, most of USA citizens can share same DNA with people in Europe Continent. Cantonese (Nan Yue ren) or Pandi people and you Hakka (guest people) not Hans. Nan Yue was lost. You have lost your original identity, it's truth. You are ruled by Hans, GDP don't say nothing when you are slaves of Hans now.


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

Rechoice said:


> DNA don't say nothing about this matter, most of USA citizens can share same DNA with people in Europe Continent. Cantonese (Nan Yue ren) or Pandi people and you Hakka (guest people) not Hans. Nan Yue was lost. You have lost your original identity, it's truth. You are ruled by Hans, GDP don't say nothing when you are slaves of Hans now.



We are Han, we are the descendants of the Huaxia as proven by DNA. 

And GDP says a lot when my small city alone has double the GDP of the entire country of Vietnam.

You simply have no leverage at all.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

Chinese-Dragon said:


> What country in the world said that the Paracel islands belong to Vietnam?



Who said that Islands belong to China ?


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

Rechoice said:


> Who said that Islands belong to China ?



We hold the Islands, and not one country in the entire world has a problem with it besides you.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

Chinese-Dragon said:


> *What country in the world* said that the Paracel islands belong to Vietnam?


The world sees Paracels is disputed between VN and CN.


----------



## Maxtini

JSCh said:


> In another word, it is within the UNCLOS charter that countries are allowed to make declaration on what they chose to abide by. And they are allowed to do this at any time they want to. The UNCLOS is after all termed just as a convention.



First, you need to read more carefully what those articles pertained to.
"In addition, article 298, paragraph 1, allows States and entities to declare that they exclude the application of the compulsory binding procedures *for the settlement of disputes* under the Convention in respect of certain specified categories kinds of disputes"

States may choose not to abide or bound by the* settlement of disputes *provided by the articles. Just as exemplified by the recent case brought by the Philippines, China has the right not to abide the ITLOS decision (one of the procedure for settlement of dispute). 

However, It does not equate that states may choose not to abide whichever articles in UNCLOS. China cannot in any case, as a signatory of UNCLOS, declared that reef/banks/rocks that cannot sustain economic/livelihood of human has EEZ enjoyed by ordinary islands. This is exemplifed by the case of Okinotorishima of Japan, which, in accordance to UNCLOS, was not an island, and hence does have any EEZ. Japan, as signatory of UNCLOS, cannot choose not to abide by this decision. It may unilaterally chose to ignore this decision, but it might undermine the comitment and honour of Japan towards international rules and convention.

The Chinese decision to claim nearly all south china sea by its U-shaped nine-dash line clearly does not comply with UNCLOS. China may reject the settlement of dispute regarding this claim, but this does not necessarily mean it can arbitrarily drawn any line that principally does not allowed by the UNCLOS.

China may claim historical rights over south china sea, but the claim itself is quite weak and will be easily challenged by neighboring parties in South-East Asia. Note that maritime south-east asian was predominated Austronesian, whose realm has long been sea travelling. If historical rights were to be brought upon UNCLOS, south-east asian and pacific islanders might be able to claim ridiculously large area of seas encompassing nearly all of the pacific ocean.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

Chinese-Dragon said:


> I heard some of those guys saying that *Guangdong and Guangxi *belongs to them as well.


Indeed Nam Viet consisted of those as well.


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

Viet said:


> Indeed Nam Viet consisted of those as well.



And the part that is modern day Vietnam is just a bunch of rebels who broke off.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

Chao To, King of Nam Viet


----------



## jhungary

Martian2 said:


> *Two critical facts*
> 
> 1. *The islands and seas within China's nine-dashed-lines map were discovered *and claimed by China 2,000 years ago. China was the first discoverer and claimant of the South China Seas.
> 
> You can read about China's historical claims to the South China Seas over the last 2,000 years in the Chinese imperial dynastic records. There are also plenty of Chinese shipwrecks, buried bones, and buried artifacts (including wells) within the nine-dashed-lines map. China was there first and it belongs to them.
> 
> 2. Among the South China Sea claimants, only one of the countries has a real navy (see videos below).
> 
> Combining points #1 (e.g. only China is the legitimate owner) and #2 (e.g. only China has the naval power to back its claims), it is clear that only China can claim sovereignty over the South China Seas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "*Published on Feb 13, 2013*
> 
> A People's Liberation Army Navy fleet is on their way to Qingdao Port in northeast China after they finished intensive training missions in the West Pacific. During the training, the fleet held drills about attacks and defense, air defense and anti-submarine and over-the-horizon attack. Meanwhile, the training tested tactics, technical performances and computerized remote capacity of supplies."
> 
> ----------
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "*Published on Nov 23, 2012*
> 
> The Chinese People's Liberation Army Navy recently carried out live ammunition drills in the South China Sea and East China Sea. Vessel-airplane confrontation, vessel-submarine confrontation, air-defense and light weapon shootings were completed in the drills."
> 
> [Note: Don't bring up the United States. The U.S. does not recognize UNCLOS, is not a claimant to the South China Sea territory, and a Chinese megaton EMP warhead can easily neutralize any American surface fleet.]



*Well, international law require more than a pure "Discovery" to claim a landmass.* and i am not talking about the puny UNCLOS. (actually UNCLOS does not define national border)

International law as per UN Public Law Forum require a functioning government, a living or lived settlement to allow a government claim any landmass. You need to fullfill the *Terra Nullius* clause when you claim a land mass, not just call the land you discover and claim it's yours....

Also, using a Megaton EMP warhead is the same as using any Megaton Nuclear Weapon. The moment you use them on US warship, prepare to eat a retailatory nuclear strike on your own land. Will China want to lose all the inhibitian risking over a small landmass. I don't really think so.

I have comment this over and over again, you need more than UNCLOS and discovery to claim a landmass. 

http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/222879-anyone-even-know-how-land-dispute-resolved.html

So considered this, your word proved nothing...

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> Chao To, King of Nam Viet



Those people you call them "Baiyue", how come they were dressing like Han?

Here is another so-called "Baiyue" ruler, while much closer to Han than to Viet.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cnleio

All u r historian

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Cantonese and Hakka are both Han.
> 
> You keep talking about slaves of Han, do you know that was you, right?



We regained our independence, Hans army went home. It's different.



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Those people you call them "Baiyue", how come they were dressing like Han?
> 
> Here is another so-called "Baiyue" ruler, while much closer to Han than to Viet.



You are right, Cantonese are Nan Yue people and Wo Yue people so called "Baiyue". Viets people no ralated to Baiyue.

Viet King "Hung Vuong" dressing is different for "GauJian"

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## jhungary

Maxtini said:


> First, you need to read more carefully what those articles pertained to.
> "In addition, article 298, paragraph 1, allows States and entities to declare that they exclude the application of the compulsory binding procedures *for the settlement of disputes* under the Convention in respect of certain specified categories kinds of disputes"
> 
> States may choose not to abide or bound by the* settlement of disputes *provided by the articles. Just as exemplified by the recent case brought by the Philippines, China has the right not to abide the ITLOS decision (one of the procedure for settlement of dispute).
> 
> However, It does not equate that states may choose not to abide whichever articles in UNCLOS. China cannot in any case, as a signatory of UNCLOS, declared that reef/banks/rocks that cannot sustain economic/livelihood of human has EEZ enjoyed by ordinary islands. This is exemplifed by the case of Okinotorishima of Japan, which, in accordance to UNCLOS, was not an island, and hence does have any EEZ. Japan, as signatory of UNCLOS, cannot choose not to abide by this decision. It may unilaterally chose to ignore this decision, but it might undermine the comitment and honour of Japan towards international rules and convention.
> 
> The Chinese decision to claim nearly all south china sea by its U-shaped nine-dash line clearly does not comply with UNCLOS. China may reject the settlement of dispute regarding this claim, but this does not necessarily mean it can arbitrarily drawn any line that principally does not allowed by the UNCLOS.
> 
> China may claim historical rights over south china sea, but the claim itself is quite weak and will be easily challenged by neighboring parties in South-East Asia. Note that maritime south-east asian was predominated Austronesian, whose realm has long been sea travelling. If historical rights were to be brought upon UNCLOS, south-east asian and pacific islanders might be able to claim ridiculously large area of seas encompassing nearly all of the pacific ocean.



This is probably the most Sane agrument i have heard for a long long time in this forum

Unratify UNCLOS does not mean you are not bound by international court decision, you just choose to ignore what it said.
There are way to settle this dispute once and for all. But China for some reason do not want to use them

By the way dispute in UNCLOS does not mean a dispute to any landmass. UNCLOS is a law or standard that define 3 things

1.)International Waterway (Territorial water, Contigious Zone, and EEZ)
2.)What you can do with which
3.)and arbritation process

Claiming an island is neither one of the 3. So claiming an island far away from you is not something you can rely on UNCLOS to solve.....


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

In fact, Nanyue was even ruled by North Chinese, Zhao Tuo brought a lot of Qin soldiers there to marry with the local women.

And you expect to be closer to Viet?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Those people you call them "Baiyue", how come they were dressing like Han?
> Here is another so-called "Baiyue" ruler, while much closer to Han than to Viet.




Vietnam landscape changed with the times and history, so the rulers.

2879&#8211;258	*H&#7891;ng Bàng Dynasty (Hung Vuong)*
257&#8211;207	Th&#7909;c Dynasty
207&#8211;111	*Tri&#7879;u Dynasty (Nam Viet)*
111&#8211;39	1st Chinese domination
40&#8211;43	Tr&#432;ng Sisters
43&#8211;544	2nd Chinese domination
544&#8211;602	Early Lý Dynasty
602&#8211;938	3rd Chinese domination
939&#8211;967	Ngô Dynasty
968&#8211;980	&#272;inh Dynasty
980&#8211;1009	Early Lê Dynasty
1009&#8211;1225	Later Lý Dynasty
1225&#8211;1400	Tr&#7847;n Dynasty
1400&#8211;1407	H&#7891; Dynasty
1407&#8211;1427	4th Chinese domination
1428&#8211;1788	Later Lê Dynasty
1527&#8211;1592	&#8226; M&#7841;c Dynasty
1545&#8211;1787	&#8226; Tr&#7883;nh Lords
1558&#8211;1777	&#8226; Nguy&#7877;n Lords
1778&#8211;1802	Tây S&#417;n Dynasty
1802&#8211;1945	Nguy&#7877;n Dynasty
1858&#8211;1945	&#8226; French imperialism
from 1945 Republic
1975 Vietnam reunification






Hung Vuong, the ruler of Hong Bang






Chao To, the ruler of Nam Viet

Han´s influence began with the Trieu´s Dynasty.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## walle

faithfulguy said:


> What he is saying is that if China go to war with Vietnam, China's economy would be crippled by the war itself.



A war with Vietnam will be a shooting match in the air and on the seas, there's no reason to occupy Vietnam, it wouldn't affect China as much as it would on Vietnam. 

China really need a war to reassert itself in the region and maintain peace.

And with China's sea bound commerce so closely tied with rest of the world, Viets wouldn't dare to touch any chinese bound ships in the SCS.


----------



## Rechoice

Yes, you can read my comments posted above, Cantonese (Nanyue people) ruled by Hans whose came from North China.
Viets (Kinh people) are different from Cantonese, Hakka, Fujian_ren. I don't say that Viets are closer to Baiyue.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

Hung Vuong

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

But Guangdong and Guangxi were never belong to Vietnam bro, there were local people non-Han aborigines lived there, but later the migrating Hans married and mixed with them, but not with Vietnamese.

So you have to make the clear distinction here, Cantonese have non-Han admixture, but it doesn't mean they are Viets.

We Han people are very patriarchal, as long as we have the homogenous Huaxia Y-DNA, we don't care much of having some exotic heterogeneous female lineages in our bloodline.

The more you wanna prove the Vietness of Cantonese, the more embarassing for your people, since it does show how Chinese men loved to screw your women since the ancient time, while you Viet men just watching aside and can do nothing about it.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

@ChineseTiger1986

There are many small and big differences between the Viets and Han´s, not only in the DNA and other things. One important aspect is while the Han´s are patriarchal, traditionally the Viets women have more rights and equal to the men. This was one of the reasons leading to the split and independence of Vietnam.






Trung sisters, the first Queen´s of independent Vietnam (40-43)

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

*ASEAN chief pushes RI to act on South China Sea dispute*
Bagus BT Saragih, The Jakarta Post, Jakarta | World | Tue, April 09 2013, 11:43 AM

ASEAN Secretary-general Le Luong Minh utilized his meeting with President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono on Monday to ask for Indonesia&#8217;s help to address the South China Sea territorial dispute which grew more tense following China&#8217;s move to allow tourists to visit the disputed Paracel Islands.

Minh, formerly Vietnamese deputy foreign minister, paid a courtesy visit to Yudhoyono at his office on Monday. It was the first formal meeting between the two leaders since Minh was inaugurated on Jan. 7.

&#8220;I appreciate Indonesia and President Yudhoyono for the strengthening of ASEAN, especially in progress towards the ASEAN community,&#8221; Minh told the press.

Minh&#8217;s meeting with Yudhoyono focuses on the establishment of the ASEAN community by 2015 and ways to reduce tension in the South China Sea, disputed by China, four ASEAN members (Brunei Darussalam, Malaysia, Philippines, Vietnam) and Taiwan.

&#8220;To be able to achieve the ASEAN community and focus on progress, we need to have an environment of peace and stability and a standard code of conduct is very important in this context. We look forward to coordinating with member states especially Indonesia,&#8221; he said.

Presidential foreign affairs spokesman Teuku Faizasyah said that Yudhoyono highlighted the importance of a rule-based ASEAN with good policy coordination. &#8220;That is the fundamental condition we need for the ASEAN community. Peace and stability are the keys,&#8221; he said.

Faizasyah acknowledged that Indonesia had been expected to play a bigger role in helping to resolve the issue.

Early this year, Minh expressed his hope that ASEAN would speed up negotiations with China on a code of conduct on the South China Sea.

Disagreement on the South China Sea prevented members from issuing a joint communique after the 2012 ASEAN Ministerial Meeting in Phnom Penh, Cambodia, in July, last year.

Foreign Minister Marty Natalegawa emerged as a volunteer troubleshooter with a 36-hour round of shuttle diplomacy, meeting his counterparts in the Philippines, Vietnam, Cambodia and Singapore, which resulted in the Six-Points on the South China Sea

Minh applauded Marty&#8217;s effort to maintain ASEAN&#8217;s centrality and unity. &#8220;I especially appreciate the continuation by Indonesia in the maintenance of ASEAN and the strengthening of the regional grouping,&#8221; he said.

China and Vietnam are involved in row again regarding the Paracel Islands after a report on Sunday said that a Chinese cruise ship that can accommodate almost 2,000 passengers is ready to sail for the Paracels, known in Chinese as Xisha.

&#8220;Tourists will eat and sleep on the cruise ships and land on the islands for sightseeing&#8221; ahead of Labor Day on May 1, Tan Li, vice governor of China&#8217;s southernmost province of Hainan, said, according to Xinhua.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Maxtini

jhungary said:


> This is probably the most Sane agrument i have heard for a long long time in this forum
> 
> Unratify UNCLOS does not mean you are not bound by international court decision, you just choose to ignore what it said.
> There are way to settle this dispute once and for all. But China for some reason do not want to use them
> 
> By the way dispute in UNCLOS does not mean a dispute to any landmass. UNCLOS is a law or standard that define 3 things
> 
> 1.)International Waterway (Territorial water, Contigious Zone, and EEZ)
> 2.)What you can do with which
> 3.)and arbritation process
> 
> Claiming an island is neither one of the 3. So claiming an island far away from you is not something you can rely on UNCLOS to solve.....



Claiming reefs/rocks/banks on South China Sea is of course different matter, but claiming the sea surrounding them is the matter of UNCLOS. The problem with China is that their U-shaped claim does not simply based on the islands within SCS nor comply with UNCLOS. There are several studies that analyze and explore several scenarios of "what happen if spratly and paracel islands actually entitled EEZ". Their calculation showed that China's claim exceed what is entitled under UNCLOS.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Raphael

Vietnamese historical revisionists are so scary and misguided and revolting. You are not the successor state to Nanyue, because it was a state founded by a Qin dynasty military commander (Zhao Tuo). You are a rebel province which wanted to escape "Chinese imperialism", and then hypocritically decided to imperialize and annex the independent Champa Kingdom.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## JSCh

Maxtini said:


> First, you need to read more carefully what those articles pertained to.
> "In addition, article 298, paragraph 1, allows States and entities to declare that they exclude the application of the compulsory binding procedures *for the settlement of disputes* under the Convention in respect of certain specified categories kinds of disputes"
> 
> States may choose not to abide or bound by the* settlement of disputes *provided by the articles. Just as exemplified by the recent case brought by the Philippines, China has the right not to abide the ITLOS decision (one of the procedure for settlement of dispute).
> 
> However, It does not equate that states may choose not to abide whichever articles in UNCLOS. China cannot in any case, as a signatory of UNCLOS, declared that reef/banks/rocks that cannot sustain economic/livelihood of human has EEZ enjoyed by ordinary islands. This is exemplifed by the case of Okinotorishima of Japan, which, in accordance to UNCLOS, was not an island, and hence does have any EEZ. Japan, as signatory of UNCLOS, cannot choose not to abide by this decision. It may unilaterally chose to ignore this decision, but it might undermine the comitment and honour of Japan towards international rules and convention.
> 
> The Chinese decision to claim nearly all south china sea by its U-shaped nine-dash line clearly does not comply with UNCLOS. China may reject the settlement of dispute regarding this claim, but this does not necessarily mean it can arbitrarily drawn any line that principally does not allowed by the UNCLOS.
> 
> China may claim historical rights over south china sea, but the claim itself is quite weak and will be easily challenged by neighboring parties in South-East Asia. Note that maritime south-east asian was predominated Austronesian, whose realm has long been sea travelling. If historical rights were to be brought upon UNCLOS, south-east asian and pacific islanders might be able to claim ridiculously large area of seas encompassing nearly all of the pacific ocean.


As is clear by the declaration of the respective claimants that none of them are willing to subject themselves to UNCLOS when they feels that their sovereignty is infringe upon. 

The UNCLOS is not legal binding as long as one of the claimant is unwilling to subject themselves to it. Hence the UNCLOS look to me more like a political/propaganda tools that is used whenever it suit any of the claimant. And it is unlikely that UNCLOS is a practical solution to the problem.


----------



## longyi

The key here is Vietnam. If ASEAN can influence Vietnam to dismiss her claims on SCS, which are almost similar to China's, I think China will soften her stance. But it's an unlikely scenario though.


----------



## Viet

Martian2 said:


> China controls the Spratlys and the rest of the South China Sea. See the two video citations below from "Russia Today." Surely, your eyes can see the proof. No amount of text from you Viets can change the truth. The PLA Navy is the master of the Spratlys and the South China Sea.
> 
> ----------
> 
> *Two critical facts*
> 
> 1. The islands and seas within China's nine-dashed-lines map were discovered and claimed by China 2,000 years ago. China was the first discoverer and claimant of the South China Seas.
> 
> You can read about China's historical claims to the South China Seas over the last 2,000 years in the Chinese imperial dynastic records. There are also plenty of Chinese shipwrecks, buried bones, and buried artifacts (including wells) within the nine-dashed-lines map. China was there first and it belongs to them.
> 
> 2. Among the South China Sea claimants, only one of the countries has a real navy (see videos below).
> 
> Combining points #1 (e.g. only China is the legitimate owner) and #2 (e.g. only China has the naval power to back its claims), it is clear that only China can claim sovereignty over the South China Seas.
> 
> -------....


I am telling you facts here:

First, Vietnam doesn´t care of your lawless claim. We continue to exploit oil and gas within our EEZ waters, while China not anything in your so-called 9-dash-line. China navy does not control the SC sea. Your vessels sail through usually for 1 week or 2 and return home. Our navy and aircraft units patrol regulary the region.

Second, you are free to fire the first shot.






pic from economist.com

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

Raphael said:


> Vietnamese historical revisionists are so scary and misguided revolting. You are not the successor state to Nanyue, because it was a state founded by a Qin dynasty military commander (Zhao Tuo). You are a rebel province which wanted to escape "Chinese imperialism", and then hypocritically decided to imperialize and annex the independent Champa Kingdom.



Zhao Tuo was born in Hebei province in northern China.

No amount of historical revisionism could possibly turn him into a Vietnamese.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Rechoice

longyi said:


> The key here is Vietnam. If ASEAN can influence Vietnam to dismiss her claims on SCS, which are almost similar to China's, I think China will soften her stance. But it's an unlikely scenario though.



Islands belong to Vietnam from long time in the past without troubles with neighbors, The Complete Map of the Unified Dai Nam indicated that "Hoang Sa" and "Van Ly Truong Sa" are Vietnamese territories. These islands were depicted to be further offshore compared to those near the Central coast.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Rechoice

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Zhao Tuo was born in Hebei province in northern China.
> 
> No amount of historical revisionism could possibly turn him into a Vietnamese.



In June 1776, Thomas Jefferson declared "UNITED STATES OF AMERICA", he was English in native, but he is founder of USA and USA became independence state splited from UK, England.
It's nothing wrong here, if Zhiao Tuo was Han chinese, Nanyue should be independence state and became member of UN.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Raphael

Rechoice said:


> In June 1776, Thomas Jefferson declared "UNITED STATES OF AMERICA", he was English in native, but he is founder of USA and USA became independence state splited from UK, England.



Thomas Jefferson was (one) founder of the USA, a sovereign state which, from the perspective of international law, still exists 2.5 centuries later. So we don't even need to talk about succession of states here. But you can't connect Nanyue to any subsequent Viet state. Nanyue was completely annexed by the Han dynasty, and any Viet state that emerged centuries later did so from a Chinese dynasty.

And the other important distinction is that Jefferson (and other Founding Fathers) wanted to create a new country with that was culturally and philosophically distinct from Britain. Zhao Tuo's Nanyue was intent on sinicizing the region. His most important policy achievement was introducing Chinese culture, language, writing, agriculture, bureaucracy. It's so absurd and masochistic for you to claim a state that was intent on erasing the primitive tribal "Viet" culture of the natives.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

longyi said:


> The key here is Vietnam. *If ASEAN can influence Vietnam to dismiss her claims on SCS,* which are almost similar to China's, I think China will soften her stance. But it's an unlikely scenario though.


Have you heard the latest news?

Kim Jung Un wants to US to cede Guam to N. Korea. So pls feel free and do it, I think Uncle Kim will soften the tone against the United States.


----------



## Maxtini

JSCh said:


> As is clear by the declaration of the respective claimants that none of them are willing to subject themselves to UNCLOS when they feels that their sovereignty is infringe upon.
> 
> The UNCLOS is not legal binding as long as one of the claimant is unwilling to subject themselves to it. Hence the UNCLOS look to me more like a political/propaganda tools that is used whenever it suit any of the claimant. And it is unlikely that UNCLOS is a practical solution to the problem.



Once ratified, a treaty/convention/agreement will be legally binding regardless of what individual country intrepret. A country may choose to ignore the treaty, but with consequences that might tarnish its commitment and honour. 

You also need to differentiate between valid dispute arising from overlap EEZ permissible under UNCLOS with that dispute of arbitrary claim of non complaiant with UNCLOS (China's U-shaped claim). The former is legally compliant with UNCLOS, while the later isn't.

As far as i know, most signatory parties of UNCLOS have been so far complied with UNCLOS in laying their EEZ claim. Dispute arises where two countries EEZ overlap with each other, but both claim are stil valid under UNCLOS. The Malaysian, philippines, and Bruneian claims are valid under UNCLOS, although the claims overlap each other. In fact they are no known countries that try to claim EEZ beyond what is permissible under UNCLOS with the exception of China's and Vietnam's claim. Even US has been so far does not claim beyond UNCLOS 200 nm EEZ limit despite its non ratifying status.

Seeveral countries have been successful in resolving EEZ dispute under UNCLOS. Examples are: India/Bangladesh/Myanmar dispute over Bay of Bengal, Vietnam/Indonesia EEZ dispute over north Natuna Sea, Indonesia/Australia EEZ boundaries, Norway/Russia Svalbard dispute. I dont think with this ample examples could you say that UNCLOS is not legally binding.


----------



## terranMarine

Rechoice said:


> at the end of invasion of Chinese, your ancestors ran away, forget It ? let Mongolian and Mancus rule you, it was enough.



Still can't explain why you can't grab Xisha back eh after your many victories eh?


----------



## jhungary

Maxtini said:


> Claiming reefs/rocks/banks on South China Sea is of course different matter, but claiming the sea surrounding them is the matter of UNCLOS. The problem with China is that their U-shaped claim does not simply based on the islands within SCS nor comply with UNCLOS. There are several studies that analyze and explore several scenarios of "what happen if spratly and paracel islands actually entitled EEZ". Their calculation showed that China's claim exceed what is entitled under UNCLOS.



You are right, but from what the Chinese Claim, the UNCLOS present a double Jeapordy case here.

Chinese claim the land are theirs or the land are the extension of their seabed, so it's obiviously the 9 *** line is the extent of what all that island expanded. (If the landmass are their's, then each island would have an extended EEZ on each and every island they claim.)

For UNCLOS to work, China need to first proof the island are there in the first place, if so, then the EEZ expansion is legally under internatonal law defined. If not, if the island does not belong to the Chinese, then Chinese cannot have the EEZ extented over these island chain. 

However, UNCLOS only come into play when China extented their intention to expand their EEZ by more than 200nm, say they want to set their EEZ to 400nm, then they are bounded by UNCLOS, otherwise it's a matter of international border dispute.
Bear in mind, EEZ still consider "*International Water*" there are no national boundary in one's EEZ. You cannot claim the EEZ is yours unless you have a land mass that mark the coastal boundary, that's where those rock are coming in to plays.

*YOU CANNOT OWN AN EXCLUISIVE ECONOMIC ZONE AS IT COUNTED AS INTERNATIONAL WATER UNDER UNCLOS*

If you look at the EEZ of the Philippine you would know the Northern island Chain of Philippine serve as the extension of the EEZ with them marked as national boundry. Without those island chain, their EEZ cannot exceed 200nm (It's nearly 400 with the island chain). It's the same case in SCS, if they can proof the Island is theirs, then they can proof that was their EEZ, it's simple as that.






Notice how Cordillera Administrative region in philippine expanded their EEZ beyond 200nm? It's the same claim the Chinese are using. It's always about the land, not about the EEZ. If you have the land, you *WILL* have the EEZ

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## jhungary

longyi said:


> The key here is Vietnam. If ASEAN can influence Vietnam to dismiss her claims on SCS, which are almost similar to China's, I think China will soften her stance. But it's an unlikely scenario though.



i wonder why ASEAN want to influence Vietnam to dismiss their claim?? China wasn't even part of ASEAN to begin with...

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## jhungary

Rechoice said:


> In June 1776, Thomas Jefferson declared "UNITED STATES OF AMERICA", he was English in native, but he is founder of USA and USA became independence state splited from UK, England.
> It's nothing wrong here, if Zhiao Tuo was Han chinese, Nanyue should be independence state and became member of UN.





Raphael said:


> Thomas Jefferson was (one) founder of the USA, a sovereign state which, from the perspective of international law, still exists 2.5 centuries later. So we don't even need to talk about succession of states here. But you can't connect Nanyue to any subsequent Viet state. Nanyue was completely annexed by the Han dynasty, and any Viet state that emerged centuries later did so from a Chinese dynasty.
> 
> And the other important distinction is that Jefferson (and other Founding Fathers) wanted to create a new country with that was culturally and philosophically distinct from Britain. Zhao Tuo's Nanyue was intent on sinicizing the region. His most important policy achievement was introducing Chinese culture, language, writing, agriculture, bureaucracy. It's so absurd and masochistic for you to claim a state that was intent on erasing the primitive tribal "Viet" culture of the natives.



Technically speaking, Thomas Jefferson was *STATELESS* when he founded America. The moment he fought British Troop, he is committing treason, he stopped being a Briton the moment he fired on his own man. Hence he is not a Brits for about a year before or immediately before he founded United States....Depending on how you defined "Treason"

Not much value into this but just making things right and try to preserve history

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## longyi

jhungary said:


> i wonder why ASEAN want to influence Vietnam to dismiss their claim?? China wasn't even part of ASEAN to begin with...




Isn't it obvious? One of the most important reason China is sticking to the 9-*** line claim is because Vietnam is claiming almost the same and occupies most of the rocks in the area. This action shows Vietnam's motive on SCS is not benign. These sea lanes are, unarguably, the most important sea routes for Chinese merchant fleets and there's no way China's going to allow Vietnam, oe any country for that matter, to have hegemony by building military assets over this area. The claim will allow China options to take actions if she feels anyone is taking over SCS.

If ASEAN countries want peace in these water, in which is coincide with China's aim, they must deal with one of their ambitious member first. If Vietnam gives up on her SCS claim I'm sure China will follow suit. For China those oil under the seabed is not as important as having good relationships with ASEAN. Frankly I think most of them know what the situation is but no one wants to be the bad guy to talk with the Viets.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

terranMarine said:


> Still can't explain why you can't grab Xisha back eh after your many victories eh?



Islands are part of Vietnam territory, China can't swallow our Islands, we will take back with force if peaceful negotiation is fail. It's clear for you.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NiceGuy

terranMarine said:


> Still can't explain why you can't grab Xisha back eh after your many victories eh?


Paracel is just a group of small rocks,no strategic position,as long as China cant drill oil there,then u can keep controling those useless rocks


----------



## NiceGuy

longyi said:


> Isn't it obvious? One of the most important reason China is sticking to the 9-*** line claim is because Vietnam is claiming almost the same and occupies most of the rocks in the area. This action shows Vietnam's motive on SCS is not benign. These sea lanes are, unarguably, the most important sea routes for Chinese merchant fleets and there's no way China's going to allow Vietnam, oe any country for that matter, to have hegemony by building military assets over this area. The claim will allow China options to take actions if she feels anyone is taking over SCS.
> 
> If ASEAN countries want peace in these water, in which is coincide with China's aim, they must deal with one of their ambitious member first. If Vietnam gives up on her SCS claim I'm sure China will follow suit. For China those oil under the seabed is not as important as having good relationships with ASEAN. Frankly I think most of them know what the situation is but no one wants to be the bad guy to talk with the Viets.



Want us to give up our claim?so,try to defeat us....but China's amry is too weak,you Chinese only win VN with Ah Q's 'spiritual victory' 

The fate of ur economy is in our hand now,accept it,no choice for u

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## longyi

^^^ What a man! I think the mafia should had a "wise guy" like you.


----------



## jhungary

longyi said:


> Isn't it obvious? One of the most important reason China is sticking to the 9-*** line claim is because Vietnam is claiming almost the same and occupies most of the rocks in the area. This action shows Vietnam's motive on SCS is not benign. These sea lanes are, unarguably, the most important sea routes for Chinese merchant fleets and there's no way China's going to allow Vietnam, oe any country for that matter, to have hegemony by building military assets over this area. The claim will allow China options to take actions if she feels anyone is taking over SCS.
> 
> If ASEAN countries want peace in these water, in which is coincide with China's aim, they must deal with one of their ambitious member first. If Vietnam gives up on her SCS claim I'm sure China will follow suit. For China those oil under the seabed is not as important as having good relationships with ASEAN. Frankly I think most of them know what the situation is but no one wants to be the bad guy to talk with the Viets.



To my best knowledge. No.

Depend on which Vietnamese told you what their claim to be. The official Vietnam claim is NOT the whole SCS like the Chinese did.

Vietnam claim the part of SCS as follow
-Spratly Islands (Collective country) 
-Paracel Islands (mainly China and Vietnam)
-Gulf of Thailand (Part of South West SCS)

To which Vietnam only contested West/North West and South West of SCS along their coastline via their EEZ.

Chinese 9 dotted line have claim to all SCS except the Singaporean Strait and Gulf of Thailand....(That's all SCS except the South West part)







Two claim are different. I don't know how you can get the Vietnamese Claim to compare to the Chinese 9 dotted line claim. This is the first thing you need to realise.

Second thing is, there are no one wanted war over SCS, vietnam included. If you say ASEAN should face Chinese Pressure and order its member to back down their claim and admitted the Chinese 9 dotted claim is legimate. How is it differnet than blackmail??

*Don't want war is one thing, relent and give in to blackmail is another*. The aim of ASEAN is to put these dispute into international arbitration. However what China did now is as if they do not want the easy way out. They wanted their claim but they don't want to get touched by the international bodies. This is kind of dogy if you asked me. Seems to me, China is the only country wanted to fight it out, not the other way around.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ViXuyen

Vietnam's claims are the Paracel Island (robbed at gun point by China in 1974) and the Spratly Island chain. Vietnam's claims to these two island chains are non-negotiable whether the country was a democratic in 1974 or communist now. However, Vietnam does not claim the international sea lane betwen Viet Nam's coast and the Spratly.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## JSCh

Maxtini said:


> Once ratified, a treaty/convention/agreement will be legally binding regardless of what individual country intrepret. A country may choose to ignore the treaty, but with consequences that might tarnish its commitment and honour.


The fact that the UNCLOS allow an exception declaration when countries sign/rectify the UNCLOS means that countries are allowed to specify their obligation when entering a treaty/convention/agreement. In any agreement when party is allow to specify their commitment then they are only obliged to that commitment. How you interpret their commitment/non-commitment is your own political opinion.



Maxtini said:


> You also need to differentiate between valid dispute arising from overlap EEZ permissible under UNCLOS with that dispute of arbitrary claim of non complaiant with UNCLOS (China's U-shaped claim). The former is legally compliant with UNCLOS, while the later isn't.
> 
> As far as i know, most signatory parties of UNCLOS have been so far complied with UNCLOS in laying their EEZ claim. Dispute arises where two countries EEZ overlap with each other, but both claim are stil valid under UNCLOS. The Malaysian, philippines, and Bruneian claims are valid under UNCLOS, although the claims overlap each other. In fact they are no known countries that try to claim EEZ beyond what is permissible under UNCLOS with the exception of China's and Vietnam's claim. Even US has been so far does not claim beyond UNCLOS 200 nm EEZ limit despite its non ratifying status.


FYI, Philippines claim the "Kalayaan island groups"(KIG), 






UNCLOS define EEZ, therefore of course claim of EEZ has to be based on UNCLOS. But there is not law that say claim has to be based on EEZ. 


Maxtini said:


> Seeveral countries have been successful in resolving EEZ dispute under UNCLOS. Examples are: India/Bangladesh/Myanmar dispute over Bay of Bengal, Vietnam/Indonesia EEZ dispute over north Natuna Sea, Indonesia/Australia EEZ boundaries, Norway/Russia Svalbard dispute. I dont think with this ample examples could you say that UNCLOS is not legally binding.


UNCLOS is legally binding when all claimant/parties agree to be subjected by it, same as territory claim by ICJ.
and also
Exclusive economic zone - Disputes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## peaceful

5Star said:


> Vietnam's claims are the Paracel Island (robbed at gun point by China in 1974) and the Spratly Island chain. Vietnam's claims to these two island chains are non-negotiable whether the country was a democratic in 1974 or communist now. However, Vietnam does not claim the international sea lane betwen Viet Nam's coast and the Spratly.



vietnam can of course claim it, it will stay as a claim. 

we spent over $100 billion USD on defense every single year, your capital is 200km away from the Chinese border, your economy and armed forces are just a joke compared to ours. think about this first.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## peaceful

jhungary said:


> *Don't want war is one thing, relent and give in to blackmail is another*. The aim of ASEAN is to put these dispute into international arbitration. However what China did now is as if they do not want the easy way out. They wanted their claim but they don't want to get touched by the international bodies. This is kind of dogy if you asked me. Seems to me, China is the only country wanted to fight it out, not the other way around.



How about shut up the big mouth and read the UNCLOS first? 

International arbitration can't be forced onto any country, this is written clearly into the UNCLOS. The so called easy way out is to let ASEAN nations to withdraw their illegal claims. We are playing nice to them, this won't always be the case in the future. Claiming the SCS is the blackmail here. 

The whole issue is clear: withdraw the claims or face our navy. That is bloody simple.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

peaceful said:


> How about shut up the big mouth and read the UNCLOS first?
> 
> International arbitration can't be forced onto any country, this is written clearly into the UNCLOS. The so called easy way out is to let ASEAN nations to withdraw their illegal claims. We are playing nice to them, this won't always be the case in the future. Claiming the SCS is the blackmail here.
> 
> *The whole issue is clear: withdraw the claims or face our navy. That is bloody simple.*


No problem, bring your navy. We need some test targets for our subs.






As for China´s crybabies, we continue to exploit oil/gas within our EEZ. Don´t care of f... 9-dash!




T_he first 90m water-depth jack-up drilling rig and the Moc Tinh oil rig at the Vung Tau Petroleum Port_

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## ViXuyen

peaceful said:


> vietnam can of course claim it, it will stay as a claim.
> 
> we spent over $100 billion USD on defense every single year, your capital is 200km away from the Chinese border, your economy and armed forces are just a joke compared to ours. think about this first.


How pathetic for you to spend $100 billion USD a year when we only spend $1 billion USD/year but you can't even control the Spratley? What a joke! china can only sit aside and watch Viet Nam control the Spratley with impunity. We control most of the big islands and continue to build more structure on them, we patrol this area at will, we shoot at your fishermen whenever we like, we ram your marine police ship for sports, our tourists come and go to these islands whenever they wish. Not yet, we send several thousand fishing boats to fish in the Paracel Island to keep your maritime patrol units run wild. We do all of these when our Navy does not have a submarine fleet yet. Once we have our submarine fleet in a couple of years, china will look much weaker to us than it is NOW.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

peaceful said:


> vietnam can of course claim it, it will stay as a claim.
> 
> we spent over $100 billion USD on defense every single year, your capital is 200km away from the Chinese border, your economy and armed forces are just a joke compared to ours. think about this first.


We still explore and take oil in 9-dash-line,... your mighty military is joke, LOL. 


terranMarine said:


> Still can't explain why you can't grab Xisha back eh after your many victories eh?


Can you explain Why PRC couldn't take Taiwan back until now!? Is that your military was bullshjt!? 


longyi said:


> Isn't it obvious? One of the most important reason China is sticking to the 9-*** line claim is because Vietnam is claiming almost the same and occupies most of the rocks in the area. This action shows Vietnam's motive on SCS is not benign. These sea lanes are, unarguably, the most important sea routes for Chinese merchant fleets and there's no way China's going to allow Vietnam, oe any country for that matter, to have hegemony by building military assets over this area. The claim will allow China options to take actions if she feels anyone is taking over SCS.
> 
> If ASEAN countries want peace in these water, in which is coincide with China's aim, they must deal with one of their ambitious member first. If Vietnam gives up on her SCS claim I'm sure China will follow suit. For China those oil under the seabed is not as important as having good relationships with ASEAN. Frankly I think most of them know what the situation is but no one wants to be the bad guy to talk with the Viets.


LOL, your "I sure" is bullshjt, you know!? 
_ Sometime bring up right and wrong, sometime bring up political, you guys alway messing around with stuff to cover your action as good side. 

_ Vietnam never claim all over SCS, Vietnam claim 200nm EEZ and 2 Islands group are Paracel and Spartly because we have many actions and made living from those Islands.

_ Some chinese guys said China claim Islands because they discovered them at first, some said they claim because they saw in map and think Islands were Terra nullius condition, and now you bring up this bullshjt ...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## longyi

^^^ Look who's BSing. China wasn't the one who originally claim the 9 *** line but she, might as well, continues the claim as a preemptive measure against certain mogemonist who has the whole SCS on it sight. China will never allow any one country who controls her most important sea route near her border, disregard their legitimacy of their claims. Mark my word.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Fsjal

Viet said:


> No problem, bring your navy. We need some test targets for our subs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for China´s crybabies, we continue to exploit oil/gas within our EEZ. Don´t care of f... 9-dash!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> T_he first 90m water-depth jack-up drilling rig and the Moc Tinh oil rig at the Vung Tau Petroleum Port_



Taiwanese submarine: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/85/SS793_Submarines1.jpg

Chinese oil rig: China builds mega deep-sea oil rig - China.org.cn


----------



## NiceGuy

peaceful said:


> How about shut up the big mouth and read the UNCLOS first?
> 
> International arbitration can't be forced onto any country, this is written clearly into the UNCLOS. The so called easy way out is to let ASEAN nations to withdraw their illegal claims. We are playing nice to them, this won't always be the case in the future. Claiming the SCS is the blackmail here.
> 
> The whole issue is clear: withdraw the claims or face our navy. That is bloody simple.


How abt joining PLAN, become a crew member of China's cheap warship and fight with us ? We will sink your cheap ship immediately,so u can shut ur mouth up forever.

Of course,you dare not join PLAN and fight wt us, u r coward but big mouth like ur fore father Ah Q.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## NiceGuy

longyi said:


> ^^^ Look who's BSing. China wasn't the one who originally claim the 9 *** line but she, might as well, continues the claim as a preemptive measure against certain mogemonist who has the whole SCS on it sight. China will never allow any one country who controls her most important sea route near her border, disregard their legitimacy of their claims. Mark my word.



Oki,we VN mark ur word,and then what next ? Wanna learn another 1979 war when China was pushed back by VN militia women and Tienanmen revolt happend after that coz China wasted too much money in fighting wt VN?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## jhungary

peaceful said:


> How about shut up the big mouth and read the UNCLOS first?
> 
> International arbitration can't be forced onto any country, this is written clearly into the UNCLOS. The so called easy way out is to let ASEAN nations to withdraw their illegal claims. We are playing nice to them, this won't always be the case in the future. Claiming the SCS is the blackmail here.
> 
> The whole issue is clear: withdraw the claims or face our navy. That is bloody simple.



Dude, before i need to read more on UNCLOS, please read carefully on what i wrote before.....

*I SAID UNCLOS IS USELESS TO SOLVE THESE KIND OF DISPUTE.*

The rest of the post are meaningless. Not really any point to reply.

Just one thing, when bullet start flying, are you going be the one who stand in the front? Or you are just gonna hide behind your couch and computer like an arm chair general that you are??

You talk the talk, but did you walk the walk?? I wonder

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## yusheng

Chinese Marines Show How It Is Done

April 9, 2013: On March 19 a Chinese task force (a destroyer, two frigates, and a Type 071 amphibious ship) left a southern Chinese port for a South China Sea training exercise. This included landing marines and combat vehicles on small islands using hovercraft. This is just the sort of thing China threatens to do if anyone opposes their claims (to all the uninhabited islets and reefs in the South China Sea) and establishes more manned outposts. China is making it clear how they will deal with such &#8220;intrusions.&#8221; One of these landing exercises took place 80 kilometers off the coast of Malaysia and 1,800 kilometers from mainland China. 

Chinese designed Jingsah II class LCACs (Landing Craft Air Cushion or hovercraft) are being used on Chinas Type 071 amphibious ships. These 70 ton hovercraft can carry 15 tons of cargo, personnel, or vehicles. The first Jingsah IIs entered service in the 1980s, but it was two decades before a lot of them appeared. That was done in order to equip the Type 071 ships. 






China's third Type 071 class amphibious ship entered service late last year with the South China Sea Fleet. The first one entered service five years ago. The 071s are LPD (landing ship dock) type vessels. Type 071 armament consists of a 76mm gun, four 30mm anti-missile autocannon, and four 18 tube decoy/chaff dispensers (for anti-missile work). Each 071 is believed to cost about $300 million. A fourth 071 is under construction. 

These LPDs are 210 meters (689 foot) long, 20,000 ton amphibious ships with a flight deck for up to four helicopters and a well deck in the rear for landing craft. It normally carries four hovercraft in the well and two smaller landing craft suspended on davits. The ship can carry up to 800 troops (500 are more common) and up to 20 armored vehicles. The 071 class ships are similar to the American 25,000 ton San Antonio class or the French 21,500 ton Mistral class. The 071s have the smallest crew (120) compared to 180 in the Mistral and 396 for the San Antonio.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## yusheng

The Chinese Solution For The South China Sea

"chinese rural dog" for SCS

March 11, 2013: Last August the Chinese Navy received its first Type 056 corvette. After extensive testing at sea, this ship (hull number 582) entered service on February 24th. There are at least twenty more 056s under construction and 4-5 more will enter service this year. These ships appear to be playing a crucial role in Chinese efforts to seize control of the South China Sea. 







The Type 056s are 1,400 ton ships armed with four C-903 anti-ship missiles (200 kilometers range), a FL-3000N anti-aircraft missile (nine kilometers range) launcher (with eight missiles), two 30mm remotely controlled autocannon and one 76mm gun. The ship has air and sea search radars plus a helicopter platform in the rear and will be used mainly for coastal patrol. The ship is highly automated and has a crew of only 60. 






The 056s will replace an aging fleet of Type 053 class frigates. It was one of these ships (the Dongguan) that ran aground on a reef off the Philippines coast near Half Moon Shoal two years ago. This happened 111 kilometers from the Philippines (Palawan Island) and over 1,100 kilometers from the Chinese mainland. Letting a 2,400 ton warship (carrying a crew of 200) move around in these shallow and treacherous waters at night was asking for trouble. The waters west of the Philippines (including all the reefs, shoals, atolls, and islets claimed by China) are shallow and full of obstacles just under the water. Even shallow draft fishing boats proceed carefully and usually just in daylight. GPS and recent efforts to fully map (chart) the area have made it safer but only for those who proceed with care. China eventually got the Dongguan off the reef. A Type 056, which has a shallower draft and more modern navigation systems, would probably not have gone aground in the first place. 

China recently upgraded the Dongguan and the other five Type 053H1G frigates, apparently in order keep them in service for another decade or more. Originally built in the 1990s, the six Type 053H1G ships were the last of 53 Type 053s built over about twenty years. Based on the older Russian Riga class frigate, the Chinese expanded the original 1,400 ton Riga (armed with depth charges, three 100mm guns, and torpedoes) design, to a missile laden 2,500 ton vessel equipped with modern electronics. The few Type 053s still in service are mainly used for coastal patrol. But the 053 design grew too large for this job, and the smaller Type 056 sets that right.

Reactions: Like Like:
 1


----------



## yusheng

The Next Vietnam War 

by James Dunnigan

April 8, 2011

China and Vietnam are escalating their low-key struggle to solidify control over the Spratly Islands. Apparently Vietnam believes its improving ties with Russia and the United States will keep the Chinese from crushing their small southern neighbor. The Spratlys are a group of some 100 islets, atolls, and reefs that total only about 5 square kilometers of land, but sprawl across some 410,000 square kilometers of the South China Sea. Set amid some of the world's most productive fishing grounds, the islands are believed to have enormous oil and gas reserves. Several nations have overlapping claims on the group. About 45 of the islands are currently occupied by small numbers of military personnel. China claims them all, but occupies only 8, Vietnam has occupied or marked 25, the Philippines 8, Malaysia 6, and Taiwan one. 

Two years ago, Taiwan built a 1,150 meter long, and 30 meter wide air strip on Itu Aba, one of the Spratly Islands, 500 kilometers to the south. Called Taiping Island by the Taiwanese, Ita Aba is one of the largest of Spratly Islands, at about 120 acres (489,600 square meters). It has been in Taiwanese hands since the mid-1950s, and has largely been used as a way station for fishermen. The island is also claimed by the Vietnamese, who call it Thai Binh. Taiwan has long maintained a small military presence on the island, and the new air strip is meant to cement that control. Protests were made by Vietnam, which controls the largest group of islands, and the Philippines, which also claims Itu Aba island. The Vietnamese earlier refurbished an old South Vietnamese airstrip on Big Spratly Island. Recently, both the Chinese and Vietnamese were seen building more structures, including armed bunkers, on the Spratly islands they occupy. Malaysia has built an air strip on its Spratly island, which it uses to fly in tourists looking for prime scuba diving.

In 1988, China and Vietnam fought a naval battle, off the Spratly islands. The Chinese victory, in which a Chinese warship sank a Vietnamese transport carrying troops headed for one of the disputed islands, was followed by Chinese troops establishing garrisons on some of the islands. In 1992, Chinese marines landed on Da Lac reef, in the Spratly Islands. In 1995, Chinese marines occupied Mischief Reef, which was claimed by the Philippines.

The small countries all fear that China will eventually make good on its long-standing claim to all the Spratlys, as well as all similar islands and reefs in the South China Sea. At that point, the international community will have to worry about continued free passage through an area that currently sees about two trillion dollars worth of cargo moved through each year. 

The problem here is that China has a very different concept of "coastal waters" than does the rest of the world. International law (the 1994 Law of the Sea treaty) recognizes the waters 22 kilometers from land as under the jurisdiction of the nation controlling the nearest land. That means ships cannot enter these "territorial waters" without permission. Moreover, the waters 360 kilometers from land are considered the Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ), of the nation controlling the nearest land. The EEZ owner can control who fishes there, and extract natural resources (mostly oil and gas) from the ocean floor. But the EEZ owner cannot prohibit free passage, or the laying of pipelines and communications cables. China claims that foreign military ships cannot enter its EEZ, and sometimes uses force (usually with Chinese owned fishing or cargo ships) to try and persuade them to leave. It is feared that eventually China will use one of its growing number of warships to challenge some foreign warship "invading" its EEZ. The 1994 treaty says nothing about blocking warships from your EEZ, but some nations believe it is allowed. China is simply doing what China has been doing for centuries, trying to impose its will on neighbors, or anyone venturing into what China considers areas under its control.

For the last two centuries, China has been prevented from exercising its "traditional rights" in nearby waters because of the superior power of foreign navies (first the cannon armed European sailing ships, then, in the 19th century, newly built steel warships from Japan). However, since the communist took over China 60 years ago, there have been increasingly violent attempts to reassert Chinese control over areas that have long (for centuries) been considered part of the "Middle Kingdom" (or China, as in the "center of the world").


----------



## Viet

*Stennis Strike Group Operates in the South China Sea*


Story Number: NNS130407-02 Release Date: 4/7/2013 8:55:00 AM A A A 
By Mass Communications Specialist 2nd Class Kathleen O'Keefe




SOUTH CHINA SEA (April 5, 2013) The guided-missile cruiser USS Mobile Bay (CG 53) pulls the alongside the aircraft carrier USS John C. Stennis (CVN 74). John C. Stennis is deployed to the U.S. 7th Fleet area of responsibility conducting maritime security operations and theater security cooperation efforts.


*SOUTH CHINA SEA* (NNS) -- The Nimitz-class aircraft carrier USS John C. Stennis (CVN 74) conducted flight operations April 5 in conjunction with maritime security patrols while steaming across the South China Sea.

Stennis routinely performs aircraft launch and recovery operations in cooperation with other U.S. ships in its strike group to enhance regional security and maintain operational readiness. 

"We are excited to be back in 7th Fleet and the South China Sea," said Capt. John Beaver, commander of Destroyer Squadron 21. "We have long standing partnerships in this region and an ongoing presence here is evidence of our enduring commitment to the peace and stability of Southeast Asia." 

Crisscrossing the South China Sea are vital international shipping lanes where nearly one-third of the world's shipping passes through. The sea and small islands inside it are also subject to territorial disputes by many countries in the region due in part to the belief that the area contains large oil and gas reserves.

The John C. Stennis Carrier Strike Group (JCSCSG) entered the South China Sea April 4 after concluding a successful three-day port visit to the Republic of *Singapore *where Stennis hosted a formal reception for distinguished guests from Singapore and the U.S. Embassy. Sailors also took part in community relations projects and experienced local cultures. 

Stennis entered U.S. 7th Fleet March 26 after spending nearly five months in U.S. 5th Fleet supporting Operation Enduring Freedom. The strike group also participated in theater security cooperation exercises with ships from nations who are equally committed to this region including the Royal Navy frigate HMS Monmouth (F 235), the French destroyer FS Chevalier Paul (D621), and the Royal Australian Navy frigate HMAS Toowoomba (FFH 156). 

The John C. Stennis Carrier Strike Group, consisting of Stennis, Carrier Air Wing Nine (CVW 9), Destroyer Squadron 21 and guided-missile cruiser USS Mobile Bay (CG 53), is forward deployed to the U.S. 7th Fleet area of responsibility promoting maritime security operations and theater security cooperation efforts.

_For more information on JCSCSG, visit www.stennis.navy.mil or www.facebook.com/stennis74.> 
For more information, visit www.navy.mil, www.facebook.com/usnavy, or www.twitter.com/usnavy.> 
For more news from USS John C. Stennis (CVN 74), visit www.navy.mil/local/cvn74/._

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Maxtini

JSCh said:


> UNCLOS define EEZ, therefore of course claim of EEZ has to be based on UNCLOS. *But there is not law that say claim has to be based on EEZ. *
> 
> UNCLOS is legally binding when all claimant/parties agree to be subjected by it, same as territory claim by ICJ.
> and also



???
I don;t understand you language? UNCLOS set precedence for the existence of EEZ, before UNCLOS, there are no concept such as EEZ or archipelago water, and a country's sovereign territorial waters only extend beyond 6 km from it's coastline. 

States that did not enforce UNCLOS, only have 6 km sovereign territorial waters beyond its coastline, such as the case of Aegean Sea of Greece.

So it is impossible not to invoke UNCLOS to claim an EEZ, except states that arrogant enough to do what it wants such as China and US.

As per Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties, which China ratified (well, US did not to ratified it), article 11 states that:
"*Article 11*
_The consent of a State to be bound by a treaty may be expressed by signature, exchange of
instruments constituting a treaty, ratification, acceptance, approval or accession, or by any other means if so agreed"
_

Furthermore:
"*Article 27*
_A party may not invoke the provisions of its *internal law as justification for its failure to perform
a treaty*. This rule is with out prejudice to article 46._"

The very act of China to ratified the Law of Treaties and UNCLOS itself meant China agree to be bound by the treaty. It does not matter whether other countries ratified the treaty or not, once came into force (UNCLOS came into force in 1994), all ratified countries will be bound by it. US, which did not ratify the treaty, won't be bound anyway.

And so we came back to the conclusion that I made earlier:*
"China has become worse than United States, arrogant enough to act unilaterally against international law and convention it ratified."*

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

Maxtini said:


> ???
> The very act of China to ratified the Law of Treaties and *UNCLOS *itself meant China agree to be bound by the treaty. It does not matter whether other countries ratified the treaty or not, once came into force (UNCLOS came into force in 1994), all ratified countries will be bound by it. US, which did not ratify the treaty, won't be bound anyway.
> 
> And so we came back to the conclusion that I made earlier:*
> "China has become worse than United States, arrogant enough to act unilaterally against international law and convention it ratified."*


Exactly, in short China signed the treaty but does not respect VN´s EEZ, while it expects Vietnam to respect its boundary. Their so-called f... 9-dash stands above everything, as they lie to the world without shame they discovered the sea since bla bla times (but just made it public recently).

Who says Chinese have no sense of humor?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## JSCh

Maxtini said:


> ???
> I don;t understand you language? UNCLOS set precedence for the existence of EEZ, before UNCLOS, there are no concept such as EEZ or archipelago water, and a country's sovereign territorial waters only extend beyond 6 km from it's coastline.
> 
> States that did not enforce UNCLOS, only have 6 km sovereign territorial waters beyond its coastline, such as the case of Aegean Sea of Greece.
> 
> So it is impossible not to invoke UNCLOS to claim an EEZ, except states that arrogant enough to do what it wants such as China and US.
> 
> As per Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties, which China ratified (well, US did not to ratified it), article 11 states that:
> "*Article 11*
> _The consent of a State to be bound by a treaty may be expressed by signature, exchange of
> instruments constituting a treaty, ratification, acceptance, approval or accession, or by any other means if so agreed"
> _
> 
> Furthermore:
> "*Article 27*
> _A party may not invoke the provisions of its *internal law as justification for its failure to perform
> a treaty*. This rule is with out prejudice to article 46._"
> 
> The very act of China to ratified the Law of Treaties and UNCLOS itself meant China agree to be bound by the treaty. It does not matter whether other countries ratified the treaty or not, once came into force (UNCLOS came into force in 1994), all ratified countries will be bound by it. US, which did not ratify the treaty, won't be bound anyway.
> 
> And so we came back to the conclusion that I made earlier:*
> "China has become worse than United States, arrogant enough to act unilaterally against international law and convention it ratified."*


Declarations or Statements upon UNCLOS ratification
Article 310, 287 and 298 are all part of UNCLOS. China invoke all three articles as is within her right under UNCLOS. 
All this articles are part of the treaty that member state signed/rectified. They are presented as part of UNCLOS.


----------



## Maxtini

jhungary said:


> You are right, but from what the Chinese Claim, the UNCLOS present a double Jeapordy case here.
> 
> Chinese claim the land are theirs or the land are the extension of their seabed, so it's obiviously the 9 *** line is the extent of what all that island expanded. (If the landmass are their's, then each island would have an extended EEZ on each and every island they claim.)



I don't think Chinese claim are base on extended seabed. Especially towards the claim of North Natuna sea. Extension of 200 nm won't reach Natuna Sea, as such China call them "traditional fisihing ground area" (&#20013;&#22269;&#20256;&#32479;&#25429;&#40060;&#21306.



> For UNCLOS to work, China need to first proof the island are there in the first place, if so, then the EEZ expansion is legally under internatonal law defined. If not, if the island does not belong to the Chinese, then Chinese cannot have the EEZ extented over these island chain.


You assume the 9 dash line defines the EEZ, but it's not, as in order to claim, you need to declared your baseline, coordinates, and delimitation, etc. China has been so far fail to make such declaration. Otherwise, the shape of China's claim won't be smooth U line, but rigid such as Malaysia's and Phillipines claim.



> However, UNCLOS only come into play when China extented their intention to expand their EEZ by more than 200nm, say they want to set their EEZ to 400nm, then they are bounded by UNCLOS, otherwise it's a matter of international border dispute.
> Bear in mind, EEZ still consider "*International Water*" there are no national boundary in one's EEZ. You cannot claim the EEZ is yours unless you have a land mass that mark the coastal boundary, that's where those rock are coming in to plays.



Rocks does not constitute coastal boundary. British Rockall rock is the classic example. Although it was administered and control by the British, it was ignored in defining British EEZ.



> *YOU CANNOT OWN AN EXCLUISIVE ECONOMIC ZONE AS IT COUNTED AS INTERNATIONAL WATER UNDER UNCLOS*


But you own the resources, that's why a lot of dispute flares up.



> If you look at the EEZ of the Philippine you would know the Northern island Chain of Philippine serve as the *extension of the EEZ* with them marked as national boundry. Without those island chain, their EEZ cannot exceed 200nm (It's nearly 400 with the island chain). It's the same case in SCS, if they can proof the Island is theirs, then they can proof that was their EEZ, it's simple as that.
> 
> Notice how Cordillera Administrative region in philippine expanded their EEZ beyond 200nm? It's the same claim the Chinese are using. It's always about the land, not about the EEZ. If you have the land, you *WILL* have the EEZ



I think you misunderstand how EEZ is drawn.
Archipelagic States (Philippines, Indonesia, Japan etc) are entitled to draw their baseline connecting each of their islands, all water inside those baseline are considered internal water (complete sovereignty) and is not EEZ. The dark blue is internal water and the lightest is the EEZ extended 200 nm from the baseline. The EEZ still extends 200 nm, not 400 nm as you assume.

Notice that the Philippines does not draw its baseline on Scarborough shoal and spratlys, that's because they are *constitute of reefs and banks, which accroding to UNCLOS, cannot be used to draw baseline*

Even if they can be used to draw baseline, they will be treated as their own regimes. China cannot draw baseline connecting its mainland to paracel and spratly because simply China is not archiplagic states. Their islands are to be drawn baseline separately from the Mainland. Under UNCLOS, it is impossible to have that kind of U-shape.

It ashame I cannot post image to clarify my statement because my posts are less than 30.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Maxtini

JSCh said:


> Article 310, 287 and 298 are all part of UNCLOS. China invoke all three articles as is within her right under UNCLOS.
> All this articles are part of the treaty that member state signed/rectified. They are presented as part of UNCLOS.



Article 310 allow signing state to make a declarations, but clearly say it may not "purport to exclude or to modify the legal effect of the provisions of this Convention". It does not simply say, because China make a declaration, it may choose not to be bound by any of the UNCLOS article.
_
"Article 310. Declarations and statements "Article 309 does not preclude a State, when signing, ratifying or acceding to this Convention, from making declarations or statements, however phrased or named, with a view, inter alia, to the harmonization of its laws and regulations with the provisions of this Convention, provided that such declarations or statements *do not purport to exclude or to modify the legal effect of the provisions of this Convention in their application to that State*."_

Article 287 and 298 specified that if dispute occured, state can choose which forum the dispute be settled or exclude the compulsory binding procedure. It does not mean China can arbitrarily draw boundary line that does not conform UNCLOS.

"Article 287, paragraph 1, provides that States and entities, when signing, ratifying or acceding to the Convention, or at any time thereafter,* may make declarations specifying the forums for the settlement of disputes which they accept.*"
"In addition, article 298, paragraph 1, allows States and entities to declare that they exclude the application of the compulsory binding procedures for the *settlement of disputes* under the Convention in respect of certain specified categories kinds of disputes"

None of article 310, 287, 298 say China may not legally bound by UNCLOS.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Malaya

China really needs to revisit one of the provisions of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea III (UNCLOS III), specifically the Exclusive Economic Zones (EEZs), and understand this law. This EEZs by definition "extend from the edge of the territorial sea out to 200 nautical miles from the baseline. Within this area, the coastal nation has sole exploitation rights over all natural resources. 

In casual use, the term may include the territorial sea and even the continental shelf. The EEZs were introduced to halt the increasingly heated clashes over fishing rights, although oil was also becoming important." China seems to show they lack knowledge about this law, they pretend to know more but it just doesn't show. They really need to learn more and think more like responsible people do. Geographically, China is not even located within 200 miles (320 km) of the Spratly Islands- Google Earth and the world map will prove this. 

Their contention that the Spratlys are theirs because it is in South China Sea, even if beyond 200 nautical miles from their territorial baseline as allowed in the UNCLOS III, shows their lack of knowledge of the law. Indian Ocean is a huge ocean named after the country India but it doesn't mean India owns it (Chinese people should learn about this). Likewise, South China sea is not owned by China, it is only named after their country. Ownership of the Spratly Islands is governed by the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea. Obviously China doesn't understand the provision of this law.


----------



## Malaya

China's position hasn't changed. It's using its superior size and military strength to bully its weaker neighbors to claim those islands that are thousands of miles away from its shores. 











*80 km* from the Malaysian coast 

*1800 km* from the Chinese mainland

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## shuttler

Malaya said:


> China's position hasn't changed. It's using its superior size and military strength to bully its weaker neighbors to claim those islands that are thousands of miles away from its shores.
> 
> *80 km* from the Malaysian coast
> 
> *1800 km* from the Chinese mainland



Distance is not a factor in considering historic sovereign territories owned by China. 

China is not bullying any one. If we are, Philippines is now in ashes.



yusheng said:


> "chinese rural dog" for SCS



What is this?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## jhungary

Maybe you misread the Chinese claim.......



Maxtini said:


> I don't think Chinese claim are base on extended seabed. Especially towards the claim of North Natuna sea. Extension of 200 nm won't reach Natuna Sea, as such China call them "traditional fisihing ground area" (&#20013;&#22269;&#20256;&#32479;&#25429;&#40060;&#21306.



No. Chinese claim based on the Archipelagic waters. It's based on Sovereignty Island ownership like Cooks island and Christmas island owned by Australia Hence their baseline and territories water, not EEZ, extended from the outermost point of the 9 dotted line. The catch is, China purpose all those island chain are part of their whole Archipelagic baselines. (IE 1 island instead of 500)

Australian EEZ






China is using the claim Australian made in their EEZ in regard of Heard and McDonald Islands, Christmas Island, Cocos Islands, Norfolk Island and Macquarie Island

They are external territories not Archipelagic states.

Same as US claiming Guam, Puerto, Hawaii and other external territories.....

If Chinese claim baselines have to work, China need to show proof that they own the island (The whole things) in the first place. 

Also, Natuna island chain is a collective islands Archipelago itself unchallenged by Indonesian authority. The Chinese are claiming the Water over NE part (Which touching the claimant Spartly Islands EEZ). You have mistaken the Natuna and the water near the Natuna. 



> You assume the 9 dash line defines the EEZ, but it's not, as in order to claim, you need to declared your baseline, coordinates, and delimitation, etc. China has been so far fail to make such declaration. Otherwise, the shape of China's claim won't be smooth U line, but rigid such as Malaysia's and Phillipines claim.



I do not assume 9 dash line defines the EEZ. 9 dotted line define the Line of control. China did not claim 9 dotted line as their EEZ, China claim all within 9 dotted line are to be their territorial water as they are the part of Archipelagic baselines the once own.




> Rocks does not constitute coastal boundary. British Rockall rock is the classic example. Although it was administered and control by the British, it was ignored in defining British EEZ.
> 
> But you own the resources, that's why a lot of dispute flares up.



Rock does not count as Archipelago, this point you are right, but a collective of island (including rock) counted as a Archipelagic baselines. This is as defines as Part IV of UNCLOS.

The British Rockfall rock does not have any island that related to, it's very much extremely different than the SCS as you have a lot of island some habitable and some uninhabitable some even have functioning airfield in it. The problem is, under UNCLOS, if you count the Archipelagic baselines, you have to includes both rock and island. as their extended Baseline.

The rock in itself does not count for anything, but if they are accompanied by rock. Given the rock is not 12 nm off the island, they are part of something called "Inland Water"

Quote on UNCLOS Part IV article 46



> "archipelago" means a group of islands, including parts of islands, interconnecting waters and other natural features which are so closely interrelated that such islands, waters and *other natural features* form an intrinsic geographical, economic and political entity, or which historically have been regarded as such



Rock is a natural features



> I think you misunderstand how EEZ is drawn.
> Archipelagic States (Philippines, Indonesia, Japan etc) are entitled to draw their baseline connecting each of their islands, all water inside those baseline are considered internal water (complete sovereignty) and is not EEZ. The dark blue is internal water and the lightest is the EEZ extended 200 nm from the baseline. The EEZ still extends 200 nm, not 400 nm as you assume.
> 
> Notice that the Philippines does not draw its baseline on Scarborough shoal and spratlys, that's because they are *constitute of reefs and banks, which accroding to UNCLOS, cannot be used to draw baseline*
> 
> Even if they can be used to draw baseline, they will be treated as their own regimes. China cannot draw baseline connecting its mainland to paracel and spratly because simply China is not archiplagic states. Their islands are to be drawn baseline separately from the Mainland. Under UNCLOS, it is impossible to have that kind of U-shape.
> 
> It ashame I cannot post image to clarify my statement because my posts are less than 30.



I think you misunderstood what I said.

If China want to claim the EEZ to 400nm off their baseline, they need to talk to UNCLOS about it.

However, if it stayed 200nm but they claim the land mass over some island. The ownership of those land have nothing to do with UNCLOS. *If they can claim owner ship* of those island, they do not even need to talk to UNCLOS to explain their EEZ, as they are given.

My point being, people focus on China violate the UNCLOS. But if China can indeed proof the island belong to their in the first place, while they need to see if the claim of external territories are justified first. Which is NOT The matter of *UNCLOS*.

UNCLOS have not authority in this case, they are claiming the island, NOT the EEZ.


----------



## yusheng

shuttler said:


> "chinese rural dog" for SCS
> 
> What is this?



to Shuttler:

As wolf was nickname of submarine, Chinese rural dog &#20013;&#21326;&#30000;&#22253;&#29356; is only a nickname for this new indigenous corvette in some chinese military websites. Just neglect it if you don't like it.



about bullying, what our authorities doing now on the seas is just actions protecting our rights, you can easy to find how the viet and phili authorities have done to our fishermen. in the near future, they will burst into more loud sobs from time to time, but we just do what we should do.

There is no "bullying", there are disputes, disputes are not bullying. 


negotiation is good to solve the disputes, but needs economic and military power to support when they still believe in power and try to unite or to lead Jap or Us in the disputes.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## shuttler

We can just add 4 stars on each of all the paintings and the territories are ours. Thank you vietnam for the paintjobs!

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Fsjal

shuttler said:


> We can just add 4 stars on each of all the paintings and the territories are ours. Thank you vietnam for the paintjobs!



Wouldn't that be graffiti since you are just adding 4 more stars. Pretty much everyone in Vietnam would rage

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## yusheng

jhungary said:


> Same as US claiming Guam, Puerto, Hawaii and other external territories.....
> 
> If Chinese claim baselines have to work, China need to show proof that they own the island (The whole things) in the first place.



Since you are so erudite, could you tell us how US show proof these islands are US territories in the first place, and also please tell us how US shows the proof the American is US territories in the first place?

Maybe we can learn how to do for us, you know we have territories disputes on the seas and on the lands. and could you tell me what if some countries don't join in some international laws or keep reservations on some items. is there any super police there, the God?

And if possible, could you give us a more whole pictures how this human being world runs? you act as lawyer, lawyer earns more in US and lots of them in US, but crimes has not reduced yet there, why?


----------



## EastSea

shuttler said:


> We can just add 4 stars on each of all the paintings and the territories are ours. Thank you vietnam for the paintjobs!




When Tibetan, East Turkestan, Inner Mongolia and Manchuria are independence states. China flag is only one star in corner. I's Corner Guo, not Centre Guo.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zero_wing

Well its china what can i say its still an Empire


----------



## Maxtini

jhungary said:


> Maybe you misread the Chinese claim.......
> 
> No. Chinese claim based on the Archipelagic waters. It's based on Sovereignty Island ownership like Cooks island and Christmas island owned by Australia Hence their baseline and territories water, not EEZ, *extended from the outermost point of the 9 dotted line*. The catch is, China purpose all those island chain are part of their whole Archipelagic baselines. (IE 1 island instead of 500)



Yes~ China claim the islands, but you cannot connect those islands with mainland to form a contigous baseline (U-shaped claim). In Australian example, McDonald Islands, Christmas Island, Cocos Islands, Norfolk Island and Macquarie Island do not connect to Mainland Australia. They are to be their own regime.



> Also, Natuna island chain is a collective islands Archipelago itself unchallenged by Indonesian authority. The Chinese are claiming the Water over NE part (Which touching the claimant Spartly Islands EEZ). You have mistaken the Natuna and the water near the Natuna.


I'm not mistaken, I say "Natuna *Sea*". The Chinese claim the water North East of Natuna, which is outside the range of 200 nm from spratly. Spratly Islands EEZ won't touch Natuna's EEZ. (sigh~ I wish I can post image to show that)



> I do not assume 9 dash line defines the EEZ. 9 dotted line define the Line of control. China did not claim 9 dotted line as their EEZ, China claim all within 9 dotted line are to be their territorial water as they are the part of Archipelagic baselines the once own.



Archipelagic baseline are drawn by connecting islands, what Islands did China connect to get the shape of 9-dotted line? There aren't any. Do you know the extend and location of paracel and spratlys? It's not that they spread all over chinese U-shaped claim.



> Rock does not count as Archipelago, this point you are right, but a collective of island (including rock) counted as a Archipelagic baselines. This is as defines as Part IV of UNCLOS.
> 
> The British Rockfall rock does not have any island that related to, it's very much extremely different than the SCS as you have a lot of island some habitable and some uninhabitable some even have functioning airfield in it. The problem is, under UNCLOS, if you count the Archipelagic baselines, you have to includes both rock and island. as their extended Baseline.



Please read the article more carefully:
_"An archipelagic State may draw straight archipelagic baselines joining the outermost points of the *outermost islands* and *drying reefs of the archipelago* provided that within such baselines are included *the main islands and an area in which the ratio of the area of the water to the area of the land, including atolls, is between 1 to 1 and 9 to 1*."_

In the case of SCS, I don't think there are so called "Main Island" on Chinese side, furthermore, it requires the ratio of water/land equal to 1 to 1 or 9 to 1. The Main Island in this case is unfortunately Phillipines' Palawan Island, but even when Philippines try to draw its baseline encompassing Spratly, the ratio of water/land are more than 9 to 1, which is not compliant to UNCLOS. In the end, Philippines choose not to draw its baseline on Spratlys.



> I think you misunderstood what I said.
> 
> If China want to claim the EEZ to 400nm off their baseline, they need to talk to UNCLOS about it.


Yes! they are claiming more than 200 nm! And even more no baseline are provided, that's why Chinese claim is not compliant with UNCLOS.



> However, if it stayed 200nm but they claim the land mass over some island. The ownership of those land have nothing to do with UNCLOS. *If they can claim owner ship* of those island, they do not even need to talk to UNCLOS to explain their EEZ, as they are given.


Unfortunately, their claim exceed what the UNCLOS entitled, and that's why China are not UNCLOS compliant. To my knowledge, China has not been submitting it's baseline regarding its claim on paracel and spratlys. It just draw the U-shaped line arbitrarily, in contrast with what Philippines, Malaysia, and Brunei did. And that's why I'm stressing that China have not been compliant with UNCLOS.



> My point being, people focus on China violate the UNCLOS. But if China can indeed proof the island belong to their in the first place, while they need to see if the claim of external territories are justified first. Which is NOT The matter of *UNCLOS*.


Because their claim are not base on declared baseline and UNCLOS. Ownership of Island is different matter, but the sea around it is matter of UNCLOS. But the fact that China made their claim not based on UNCLOS despite its ratification is enough to show Chinese intention not to abide by UNCLOS.



> UNCLOS have not authority in this case, they are claiming the island, NOT the EEZ.


In the case of Malaysia, Brunei, and Philippines, of course UNCLOS did not have authority to settle the dispute, because their claim has been UNCLOS compliant.
But, i'm stressing, 
*Chinese claim is not UNCLOS compliant*, which is of course the matter of UNCLOS.

No matter how you drawn the baseline, you cannot get Chinese 9-dotted line. That's what I'm stressing. If you insist that Chinese 9-dash line is UNCLOS compliant, please enlighten me what are the coordinates the Chinese has declared as their baseline (required by UNCLOS), how they are drawns, and what is the distance the extension of their claim based on the baseline!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## jhungary

yusheng said:


> Since you are so erudite, could you tell us how US show proof these islands are US territories in the first place, and also please tell us how US shows the proof the American is US territories in the first place?
> 
> Maybe we can learn how to do for us, you know we have territories disputes on the seas and on the lands. and could you tell me what if some countries don't join in some international laws or keep reservations on some items. is there any super police there, the God?
> 
> And if possible, could you give us a more whole pictures how this human being world runs? you act as lawyer, lawyer earns more in US and lots of them in US, but crimes has not reduced yet there, why?



Dude. 

Each and every Territories US claim is undisputed. If you want, I can list them one by one to you

Overall US territories today






*Guam* - First discovered in 2000 BC by Indonesian. First civilization established on 1565 by Spanish Garrison, same year they build an outpost on Guam. Same year Guam was colonised by the Spanish.

US took control of Guam after 1898 Spanish-American war in which Guam was ceded to the United States as well as Philippine, Puerto Rico, Cuba and Jamaica as part of *Treaty of Paris*. 

US lost Guam during WW2 by an act of war with the Japanese, recapture Guam in 1945. Have been administrating Guam ever since.

*Commonwealth of Northern Marianna Island (CMNI)* - First discovered by Asutro-Indonesian by 2000 BC, first settled civilisation (recorded) in 1521 by Spanish explorer of Ferdinand Magellan. First colonised with Guam in 1565 by Miguel López de Legazpi and established Crowned colony of Spain. 

Ceded to the US as per treaty of Paris after 1898 Spanish-American War alongside Philippine, Guam, Cuba, Puerto Rico and Jamaica. US lost control briefly by act of war during 1941-1945. US recapture the Marianas in 1945, administering the island ever since.

*Puerto Rico *- Discovered by Columbus in 1493. Colonised and established Spanish settlement on 1508. US Invaded Puerto Rico as part of Spanish-American War in 1896 as per treaty of Paris. US have since been administering Puerto Rico ever since.

*US Virgin Island* - Discovered by Columbus in 1490s. Named by him at second voyage. First settled by Danish on 1672, France bought the settlement on 1733, again became a Danish colony in 1755, bought by United States on 1917 from Danish via Treaty of the Danish West Indies. 

*Territories of Hawai'i *- Established into Kingdom of Hawai'i after uniting all of the Hawaiian island. The kingdom was overthrown by the British and established a briefly Republic of Hawai'i by a Pro-UK and Pro-US government. Republic of Hawai'i was annexed by the United States in 1898 by the US military. The territories ceased to exist after 1959 when territories of Hawai'i joined the Union of United States

*Territories of Alaska* - Formed as Russian America by Russian in 1648 by Semyon Dezhnev. Russian began to settle in the island by 1740, settler from Russian Siberia region settle in Alaska in the 1700s and establish local community around the same time. Russian America was sold to United States by 1867 with 2 cents per acre as part of the sell off of Russian American company. US Army administrating the Department of Alaska after the civilian government was formed and District of Alaska was born. Incorporated into Territories of Alaska in 1912, becoming a State on 1959.

*Palmyra Atoll *- Sighted by the American on 1798, first claimed by American in 1859, was annexed by Kingdom of Hawai'i in 1862. British Claimed the atoll in 1889, but ownership return to Kingdom of Hawai'i, in 1898, Palmyra was annexed alongside with Hawai'i into US territories.

Below is a brief history of brief US territories

*American Samoa* - First discovered by French during 1800. By 1830, British Missionary settle on the island. Island ownership transferred to Germany and US after Tripartite Convention or Treaty of Berlin in 1899, and US colonised the American Part of Samoa the same year. Remain a colony since.

*Wake Island *- First discovered by Spanish in 1568, explorer by the US in 1840 found the island uninhabited. US Annex the uninhabited island in 1899

*
Midway Island *- First sighted by the US Captain N.C. Middlebrooks, US conducted survey and found no settlement and annexed the island for Guano Production. Administrated by the US Navy since.

*Johnston Atoll *- First sighted by American in 1796, named by British on Dec 14 1807. Both Kingdom of Hawai'i and US claim the Island. Transfer to US control via Reciprocity Treaty of 1875. Been under US Control since.

*Baker and Howland Island* - Discovered by the American on 1818, American Guano company acquire the island in 1857. Procession controlled by US since. Colonisation by the US between 1933-1935. Currently uninhibited.

*Jarvis Island *- Discovered by the British in August 21 1821. Annexed to the US in February 27 1858.

*Kingsman Reef* - Discovered by American in June 14, 1798, claimed by the US on 1856 for guano mining. Uninhibited ever since.

US Also claim the current disputed island, none occupied by the US

*Bajo Nuevo Bank* - US claim the island on November 22 1869 with Guano Island Act, currently Columbian Administrating the island
*Serranilla Bank *- US claim the island on 19th century with Guano Island act, currently administered by Columbian
*Navassa Island* - US claim the island on August 18, 1856, no functioning government present in Navassa Island at this moment. Also claimed by Haiti

*United States of America *- First sighted by the and landed by Spain 1513, colonised by the French, British and Spanish during 1600-1700. Government of United States was formed in 1725 from the original 13 British Colony. We kick all their arse since.

So, ignorant one. If you want US to teach you how to claim Island. You better go make some war now. All our overseas territories (except Alaska) was claimed either by Fighting or Annexation. Start a war in SCS and you may be able to claim the SCS, but then you may also go home empty handed. Your call

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## jhungary

Maxtini said:


> Yes~ China claim the islands, but you cannot connect those islands with mainland to form a contigous baseline (U-shaped claim). In Australian example, McDonald Islands, Christmas Island, Cocos Islands, Norfolk Island and Macquarie Island do not connect to Mainland Australia. They are to be their own regime.



Dude, I only said claim, I did not say the Chinese legally own the Island.

When you are a judge on ITOC, you can judge if Chinese claim is legit.

The Australian Overseas Territories are all incorporated into Mainland Australia. It's the same (Same tax, same lax, same restriction) if you are in one of those place or with the mainland Australia. Except for Norfolk Island. They are not connected to Australia, but they are part of Australia.



> I'm not mistaken, I say "Natuna *Sea*". The Chinese claim the water North East of Natuna, which is outside the range of 200 nm from spratly. Spratly Islands EEZ won't touch Natuna's EEZ. (sigh~ I wish I can post image to show that)



Actually it does. Let me show you on the google map.

The north-eastern part of Natuna is only 350 nm (less than 400nm that separate 2 EEZ) form the southern-most tip of Spratly Island 

This is a linear distant from Google map it show 350 nm

Google Maps Distance Calculator



> Archipelagic baseline are drawn by connecting islands, what Islands did China connect to get the shape of 9-dotted line? There aren't any. Do you know the extend and location of paracel and spratlys? It's not that they spread all over chinese U-shaped claim.



Chinese claim are not Based on Archipelagic baseline...........AS I said, it's a line of control (Like the one in Indian-Pakistan-Chinese border)

So, again, let me reuse the Australian example. Which island or mainland Christmas Island are close to Australian Mainland?? No. They are 1000 mile away, does that mean we should give Indonesian back the Christmas Island as we are also "Illegally" occupied the Christmas island??



> Please read the article more carefully:
> _"An archipelagic State may draw straight archipelagic baselines joining the outermost points of the *outermost islands* and *drying reefs of the archipelago* provided that within such baselines are included *the main islands and an area in which the ratio of the area of the water to the area of the land, including atolls, is between 1 to 1 and 9 to 1*."_
> 
> In the case of SCS, I don't think there are so called "Main Island" on Chinese side, furthermore, it requires the ratio of water/land equal to 1 to 1 or 9 to 1. The Main Island in this case is unfortunately Phillipines' Palawan Island, but even when Philippines try to draw its baseline encompassing Spratly, the ratio of water/land are more than 9 to 1, which is not compliant to UNCLOS. In the end, Philippines choose not to draw its baseline on Spratlys.



Again, China does not claim the 9 Dotted Line via the archipelagic State claim. That's where you got it wrong at first.

Chinese 9 dotted line is not a EEZ or archipelagic baseline. It's an actual line of control. Do I need to tell you what is a line of Control??



> Yes! they are claiming more than 200 nm! And even more no baseline are provided, that's why Chinese claim is not compliant with UNCLOS.
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, their claim exceed what the UNCLOS entitled, and that's why China are not UNCLOS compliant. To my knowledge, China has not been submitting it's baseline regarding its claim on paracel and spratlys. It just draw the U-shaped line arbitrarily, in contrast with what Philippines, Malaysia, and Brunei did. And that's why I'm stressing that China have not been compliant with UNCLOS.






> Because their claim are not base on declared baseline and UNCLOS. Ownership of Island is different matter, but the sea around it is matter of UNCLOS. But the fact that China made their claim not based on UNCLOS despite its ratification is enough to show Chinese intention not to abide by UNCLOS.





> In the case of Malaysia, Brunei, and Philippines, of course UNCLOS did not have authority to settle the dispute, because their claim has been UNCLOS compliant.
> But, i'm stressing,
> *Chinese claim is not UNCLOS compliant*, which is of course the matter of UNCLOS.
> 
> No matter how you drawn the baseline, you cannot get Chinese 9-dotted line. That's what I'm stressing. If you insist that Chinese 9-dash line is UNCLOS compliant, please enlighten me what are the coordinates the Chinese has declared as their baseline (required by UNCLOS), how they are drawns, and what is the distance the extension of their claim based on the baseline!



No, they are not claiming their EEZ, they are claiming the land. Claiming the land is differnet than claiming the EEZ, how do you not understand the different.

You keep talking about the EEZ, you also admitted yourselves China is claiming the island in the first paragraph, How hard is it to understand, IF THEY CAN CLAIM THE LAND, THE EEZ WILL COME WITH THE LAND BORDER. Thus you don't stop on their EEZ, you stop them from claiming their land. EEZ always goes with a land-mass. It's automatically given. If China do not have the land, they cannot claim the EEZ, and if they still do, then it's the matter of UNCLOS. Not before the claim of the land is settled...



China Claim IS NOT ABOUT UNCLOS. You have some sort of fixation on UNCLOS. Dude. you want to give them the land but you don't want to give up the EEZ? IT's not possible.......


----------



## shuttler

EastSea said:


> When Tibetan, East Turkestan, Inner Mongolia and Manchuria are independence states. China flag is only one star in corner. I's Corner Guo, not Centre Guo.



You can bring with those in your sleep and hope that is going to happen in you snooze



Viet said:


> show me your "historic sovereign title"!



go back to a million thread about the our sovereignty claims, MORON!



> such a retard and stupid comment from a Chinese, as usual.



I am not anticipating retards can understand intellectual comments esp from vietcongs

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## shuttler

Fsjal said:


> Wouldn't that be graffiti since you are just adding 4 more stars. Pretty much everyone in Vietnam would rage



vietcongs have done the hard works, and we just add 4 little stars on every one of the original vietcong's graffiti which they call flags for vietcongs

well if the vietcongs feel angry, be our guests:

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

yusheng said:


> Chinese Marines Show How It Is Done
> 
> Chinese designed Jingsah II class LCACs (Landing Craft Air Cushion or hovercraft) are being used on Chinas Type 071 amphibious ships. These 70 ton hovercraft can carry 15 tons of cargo, personnel, or vehicles. The first Jingsah IIs entered service in the 1980s, but it was two decades before a lot of them appeared. That was done in order to equip the Type 071 ships.


A hit of Yakhont antiship missile will turn this vessel into scrap metal.


----------



## Maxtini

jhungary said:


> Dude, I only said claim, I did not say the Chinese legally own the Island.
> 
> When you are a judge on ITOC, you can judge if Chinese claim is legit.
> 
> The Australian Overseas Territories are all incorporated into Mainland Australia. It's the same (Same tax, same lax, same restriction) if you are in one of those place or with the mainland Australia. Except for Norfolk Island. They are not connected to Australia, but they are part of Australia.



Sigh~ I'm talking "connection" in term of physical claim. The sea between Christmas Island and Mainland Australia do not take into the form of U shaped as what China did.



> Actually it does. Let me show you on the google map.
> 
> The north-eastern part of Natuna is only 350 nm (less than 400nm that separate 2 EEZ) form the southern-most tip of Spratly Island
> 
> This is a linear distant from Google map it show 350 nm



I don't know which reefs/banks have you been pointing, but from the calculation drawn according to UNCLOS, it is impossible to touch Natuna EEZ:
Go to: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Baselines_of_Eastern_Asia_English.png



> Chinese claim are not Based on Archipelagic baseline...........AS I said, it's a line of control (Like the one in Indian-Pakistan-Chinese border)


There is nothing called "line of control" in UNCLOS, except China unilaterally decided so against UNCLOS it ratified. (which is why I've argued it has become worse than US) 

The only control a state might have on the sea is through territorial water entitled by extending 12 nm from coastline or baseline.



> So, again, let me reuse the Australian example. Which island or mainland Christmas Island are close to Australian Mainland?? No. They are 1000 mile away, does that mean we should give Indonesian back the Christmas Island as we are also "Illegally" occupied the Christmas island??



I don't see the relevancy here. Christmas Island are Australian territory, but the sea between Christmas Island and Mainland Australia is not Australian territorial/Internal Water. Australian do not demarcate "line of control" between Mainland Australia and Christmas Island. The Australia only has 12 nm territorial water "control" surrounding christmas Island. This is of course comply with UNCLOS

In contrast, the Chinese claim internal/territorial water by its U-shaped claim, which I said does not comply with UNCLOS.



> Again, China does not claim the 9 Dotted Line via the archipelagic State claim. That's where you got it wrong at first.



And hence its non-compliance with UNCLOS. UNCLOS states that territorial water as well as EEZ are drawn base on coastal line or baseline connecting outermost islands. If a non-archipelagic states have archipelagoes, its archipelagoes will be treated seperately and be drawn baseline separately from Mainland, as in the case of Australian Christmas Island, which territorial sea are drawn separately from Mainland.



> Chinese 9 dotted line is not a EEZ or archipelagic baseline. It's an actual line of control. Do I need to tell you what is a line of Control??



As I said, UNCLOS don't recognize arbitrary line of control on the sea. The actual line of control is the territorial water drawn 12 nm from the baseline either from mainland coatal line or archipelagic baseline. 



> No, they are not claiming their EEZ, they are claiming the land. Claiming the land is differnet than claiming the EEZ, how do you not understand the different.


So why did the Chinese not compliant with UNCLOS in drawing their U-shaped claim? Claiming and Island is different matter as I said, drawing EEZ is different. The fact is, China claim SCS as its internal water (you said it) even before it has asserted its ownership, and thus non-compliance with UNCLOS



> You keep talking about the EEZ, you also admitted yourselves China is claiming the island in the first paragraph, How hard is it to understand, IF THEY CAN CLAIM THE LAND, THE EEZ WILL COME WITH THE LAND BORDER. Thus you don't stop on their EEZ, you stop them from claiming their land. EEZ always goes with a land-mass. It's automatically given. If China do not have the land, they cannot claim the EEZ, and if they still do, then it's the matter of UNCLOS. Not before the claim of the land is settled...



I don't say the SCS island ownership dispute can be solved through UNCLOS. I just merely assert that China did not comply with UNCLOS, please read my first post regarding this matter. Claiming an Island also means claiming the EEZ surrounding it, at least when you're claiming an island, the EEZ drawn must be compliant with UNCLOS, which Malaysia, Philippines, and Brunei did. But, in the case of China, even if, I stressed "if", China own the islands, it has chose not to comply with UNCLOS by drawing the 9-dashed line as internal water, an hence arrogant to ignore UNCLOS it ratified. 

This is different from Philippines, Brunei, and Malaysia claim. They claim the islands, but they comply with UNCLOS in laying their claim of EEZ if they own the island.

The U-shaped claim as I said is not compliance with UNCLOS. A countries might claim an island with its EEZ defined just like Philippines, Malaysia, and Brunei. In Australian example, it claim portion of Antarctic (which no other countries recognize) and the sea surrounding it based on UNCLOS. In this case Australia comply with UNCLOS even if the ownership of Antarctic is disputed.

China didn't even bother to comply to UNCLOS, which is why I said it has become arrogant like US and the point of this lengthy debate.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## shuttler

Viet said:


> A hit of Yakhont antiship missile will turn this vessel into scrap metal.



As a matter of greatly improved diplomatic, strategic and trade relationship, Russia has promised us to insert a tiny chip into each of these missiles which will cause the rocket engines to veer off from their paths and fall into SCS!


----------



## yusheng

jhungary said:


> Dude.
> 
> Each and every Territories US claim is undisputed. If you want, I can list them one by one to you
> 
> Overall US territories today
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Guam* - First discovered in 2000 BC by Indonesian. First civilization established on 1565 by Spanish Garrison, same year they build an outpost on Guam. Same year Guam was colonised by the Spanish.
> 
> US took control of Guam after 1898 Spanish-American war in which Guam was ceded to the United States as well as Philippine, Puerto Rico, Cuba and Jamaica as part of *Treaty of Paris*.




Please don't make personal attack, i am not dude, you are not either.

yes, some undisputed now, all the disputes will be solved sooner or later by any means, i don't see US made it undisputed by negotiation. 

i agree with you too that war is the only way. so please shut up about internaional laws here and be integrate.

want to act as God , be God first, fortunately fake and selfish God is going down.


----------



## EastSea

shuttler said:


> As a matter of greatly improved diplomatic, strategic and trade relationship, Russia has promised us to insert a tiny chip into each of these missiles which will cause the rocket engines to veer off from their paths and fall into SCS!



O, kid. Russian known well about betrayal mentality of Chinese. You attacked Russia 1969.
Russia is trusted nation, don't like traitor Chinese.


----------



## shuttler

EastSea said:


> O, kid. Russian known well about betrayal mentality of Chinese. You attacked Russia 1969.
> Russia is trusted nation, don't like traitor Chinese.



infant! It will take you 40 years to learn basic geopolitics 101!


----------



## EastSea

shuttler said:


> You can bring with those in your sleep and hope that is going to happen in you snooze
> 
> 
> 
> go back to a million thread about the our sovereignty claims, MORON!
> 
> 
> 
> I am not anticipating retards can understand intellectual comments esp from vietcongs



Tibet people burn themselves to protest against China occoupation, It's evidence for that Tibet will be independence State.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

EastSea said:


> O, kid. Russian known well about betrayal mentality of Chinese. You attacked Russia 1969.
> Russia is trusted nation, don't like traitor Chinese.



Russians don't trust us, but they also think you are worthless.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## shuttler

EastSea said:


> Tibet people burn themselves to protest against China occoupation, It's evidence for that Tibet will be independence State.



Xizang has millions of folks. I guess all of them should have burnt themselves right now according to what you said!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

shuttler said:


> infant! It will take you 40 years to learn basic geopolitics 101!



You can learn from here, kid.

The Sino-Soviet border conflict (&#20013;&#33487;&#36793;&#30028;&#20914;&#31361 was a seven-month military conflict between the Soviet Union and China at the height of the Sino-Soviet split in 1969. The most serious of these border clashes occurred in March 1969 in the vicinity of Zhenbao Island (&#29645;&#23453;&#23707 on the Ussuri River, also known as Damanskii Island (&#1054;&#1089;&#1090;&#1088;&#1086;&#1074; &#1044;&#1072;&#1084;&#1072;&#1085;&#1089;&#1082;&#1080;&#1081 in Russia. Chinese historians most commonly refer to the conflict by the Zhenbao Island incident (&#29645;&#23453;&#23707;&#33258;&#21355;&#21453;&#20987;&#25112 [4] The conflict was finally resolved with future border demarcations.

Sino-Soviet border conflict - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## shuttler

EastSea said:


> You can learn from here, kid.
> 
> The Sino-Soviet border conflict (&#20013;&#33487;&#36793;&#30028;&#20914;&#31361 was a seven-month military conflict between the Soviet Union and China at the height of the Sino-Soviet split in 1969. The most serious of these border clashes occurred in March 1969 in the vicinity of Zhenbao Island (&#29645;&#23453;&#23707 on the Ussuri River, also known as Damanskii Island (&#1054;&#1089;&#1090;&#1088;&#1086;&#1074; &#1044;&#1072;&#1084;&#1072;&#1085;&#1089;&#1082;&#1080;&#1081 in Russia. Chinese historians most commonly refer to the conflict by the Zhenbao Island incident (&#29645;&#23453;&#23707;&#33258;&#21355;&#21453;&#20987;&#25112 [4] The conflict was finally resolved with future border demarcations.
> 
> Sino-Soviet border conflict - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Nanny: go and fetch an updated paper on China-Russia relationship!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Russians don't trust us, but they also think you are worthless.



You lie, Russian don't say that.



shuttler said:


> Xizang has millions of folks. I guess all of them should have burnt themselves right now according to what you said!



Yes, Tibetan can do it untill they regain independence from Hans.



shuttler said:


> Nanny: go and fetch an updated paper on China-Russia relationship!



Yes, under bullying of Japan and Uncla Sam, Chinese return to old master: Russia. Mentality of Chinese is unstable.


----------



## JSCh

Maxtini said:


> Article 310 allow signing state to make a declarations, but clearly say it may not "purport to exclude or to modify the legal effect of the provisions of this Convention". It does not simply say, because China make a declaration, it may choose not to be bound by any of the UNCLOS article.
> _
> "Article 310. Declarations and statements "Article 309 does not preclude a State, when signing, ratifying or acceding to this Convention, from making declarations or statements, however phrased or named, with a view, inter alia, to the harmonization of its laws and regulations with the provisions of this Convention, provided that such declarations or statements *do not purport to exclude or to modify the legal effect of the provisions of this Convention in their application to that State*."_
> 
> Article 287 and 298 specified that if dispute occured, state can choose which forum the dispute be settled or exclude the compulsory binding procedure. It does not mean China can arbitrarily draw boundary line that does not conform UNCLOS.
> 
> "Article 287, paragraph 1, provides that States and entities, when signing, ratifying or acceding to the Convention, or at any time thereafter,* may make declarations specifying the forums for the settlement of disputes which they accept.*"
> "In addition, article 298, paragraph 1, allows States and entities to declare that they exclude the application of the compulsory binding procedures for the *settlement of disputes* under the Convention in respect of certain specified categories kinds of disputes"
> 
> None of article 310, 287, 298 say China may not legally bound by UNCLOS.


 SUBMISSION IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE DEPOSIT OBLIGATIONS PURSUANT TO THE UNITED NATIONS CONVENTION ON THE LAW OF THE SEA (UNCLOS) - CHINA


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

EastSea said:


> Yes, under bullying of *Japan* and Uncla Sam, Chinese return to old master: Russia. Mentality of Chinese is unstable.



You need to check who is the one being bullied.


----------



## EastSea

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> You need to check who is the one being bullied.



Both sides are insulting mutual, in reality china is afraid from both Japan and Uncle Sam.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

The bullier got hurt, WTF is that? 

Japan's economic growth hurt by row with China: World Bank - Indian Express

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

EastSea said:


> Both sides are insulting mutual, in reality china is afraid from both Japan and Uncle Sam.



And this is CPC's proper answer for Nippon and its master.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The bullier got hurt, WTF is that?
> 
> Japan's economic growth hurt by row with China: World Bank - Indian Express



Don't think like children, Japan can change his investment policy, and don't let them depend on China's market and they can go to ASEAN.



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> And this is CPC's proper answer for Nippon and its master.



Talking is easy. Losses will be born by both side.


----------



## shuttler

EastSea said:


> You lie, Russian don't say that.



Nanny dont cry. Go back to your kitchen where you belong. Current news is too much for you



> Yes, Tibetan can do it untill they regain independence from Hans.



they are free to go to vietnam for a change



> Yes, under bullying of Japan and Uncla Sam, Chinese return to old master: Russia. Mentality of Chinese is unstable.



it is you who call usa "uncle" - typical slavery mindset for vietcongs

I am giving you an update in case you have burnt the newspaper as fuel for your meals:

the japanese's hands are full with the leaks from their nuke plants and North Koreans' missile threats and the troublesome american g.i.s

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Fsjal

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> You need to check who is the one being bullied.



"Never give in to THE TOKYO RIGHT WING EXTREMISTS"

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## EastSea

shuttler said:


> Nanny dont cry. Go back to your kitchen where you belong. Current news is too much for you



Your troll is meaningless.



> they are free to go to vietnam for a change



Tibetan will die in his homeland, respective nation, they can have their own country.



> it is you who call usa "uncle" - typical slavery mindset for vietcongs
> 
> I am giving you an update in case you have burnt the newspaper as fuel for your meals:
> 
> the japanese's hands are full with the leaks from their nuke plants and North Koreans' missile threats and the troublesome american g.i.s



I call USA "Uncle Sam" for fun. We have beating "Uncle Sam" ran awy from Vietnam.
China begged Uncle Sam Nixon to drop in Peking 1972, and kneed 1979 in Washington before Uncle Sam to get permission for war against Vietnam, made revenge for your master Uncle Sam. It's true face of of China.

accident at Nuke power plant can happen everywhere in the world, Cheknoburn and Fukushima, and possible can be on China also. North Korea can threat Japan and Uncle Sam with nuke, but China is cowardice dare not threat Uncle Sam when he control Taiwan.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## shuttler

EastSea said:


> Your troll is meaningless.



you are funny nanny Eastsea. Look your rice is burning in the kitchen!



> Tibetan will die in his homeland, respective nation, they can have their own country.



Tell your government to give these separatist a place to stay and form their country in vietnam if you have so much feeling towards them



> I call USA "Uncle Sam" for fun. We have beating "Uncle Sam" ran awy from Vietnam.
> China begged Uncle Sam Nixon to drop in Peking 1972, and kneed 1979 in Washington before Uncle Sam to get permission for war against Vietnam, made revenge for your master Uncle Sam. It's true face of of China.



you are sleeping with uncle this and uncle that even in your dreams



> accident at Nuke power plant can happen everywhere in the world, Cheknoburn and Fukushima, and possible can be on China also.



Thank heavens we have the safetest nuke plant records in the world



> North Korea can threat Japan and Uncle Sam with nuke, but China is cowardice dare not threat Uncle Sam when he control Taiwan.



There another "uncle" obsession again!

The yankies can't do jack on Taiwan. Taiwanese are exploiting the yankies! well done!

Wait for the DPRK's nukes which will land on your roof when you are cooking in the kitchen nanny!

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## EastSea

shuttler said:


> you are funny nanny Eastsea. Look your rice is burning in the kitchen!



Also it as, you are cooking and typing keyboard now, you are worry about your rice. To be care, you will be insulted by your mother if rice is burn.
Note that I don't care about kitchen, my wife's job she cook for me, she set up electric rice cooker, it's finish.



> Tell your government to give these separatist a place to stay and form their country in vietnam if you have so much feeling towards them



Our separatists were H'mong people, their homeland in China, they can turn back to China. 



> you are sleeping with uncle this and uncle that even in your dreams



I said we beating "Uncle" ran away with bloody heads.



> Thank heavens we have the safetest nuke plant records in the world



To be carefully, it should happen in any time. All the contractors is big mouth when they can sign the contract with hug amount money and they have been paid enough pension to it.



> There another "uncle" obsession again!
> 
> The yankies can't do jack on Taiwan. Taiwanese are exploiting the yankies! well done!
> 
> Wait for the DPRK's nukes which will land on your roof when you are cooking in the kitchen nanny!



Ya, you let Taiwan sleep with Uncle to get money, well done!
We don't have problem with North Korea now, just you chinese use Korean to discuss with USA to take positive position on region. North Korea can "mistaken" change the direction of nuke to the traitor nearby him.


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

A very, very interesting article from Yale...

*Winning Without a Fight in the South China Sea*
*Who needs a navy? China launches cruise ships to mark South China Sea claims*
Marvin Ott
YaleGlobal, 10 April 2013

China has the largest military in Asia, and expenditures on Chinese navy, coast guard and air force are second only to that of the United States. Still, China is pressing new forces into protecting sweeping claims in the South China Sea  cruise ships and tourists. For decades Chinese maps have shown a U-shaped swathe with dotted lines suggesting maritime claims cutting into 200-mile offshore exclusive economic zones of neighboring states, as protected by the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea. Nationalistic tensions are rising over the competing claims, with reported incidents of shots exchanged by fishing vessels and patrol boats. The US official position is maintenance of international sea lanes and resolution of territorial disputes without military force, explains Marvin Ott, senior scholar on Asia with the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars. In a war without battles, China tries to win with tactics like splitting ASEAN members, applying economic leverage, and bolstering legal claims by deploying fishing, research, surveillance and cruise vessels.  YaleGlobal






_Sovereignty games: China plans to send cruise ships full of tourists to assert control over disputed South China Sea islands (top); Vietnamese protest against Chinese patrol attack on Vietnamese fishermen in what they consider to be their waters_

WASHINGTON: Chinas launch of its first aircraft carrier caught the worlds attention in 2012. With the reconditioned Russian vessel, China would enforce its extensive claims on the South China Sea, observers speculated, though pressing the Liaoning into active duty was years away.

*Earlier this month China introduced of a more effective weapons system to assert its territorial claims  a cruise ship with thousands of tourists. Deployment of a tourist boat along with myriad other vessels to establish its claims in the South China Sea has given new meaning to Chinas claim of a peaceful rise.*

Since the 1950s, Chinese maps have shown nine elongated lines along the coastline of China and Southeast Asia to mark its territorial control. Effort to clarify meaning of that U-shaped line tended to become lost in a miasma of contradictory, confusing statements. Even if intended as a sovereign boundary, the lines were not taken seriously. But in 2009, China submitted that map to the UN as marking its indisputable sovereignty. Chinas actions since have left no doubt that the most senior levels of the Chinese government view the U-shaped line as a legitimate, enforceable, maritime boundary.

A series of incidents with Southeast Asian neighbors involving Chinese fishing and patrol vessels and strident public claims raised public awareness in July 2010 when US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton called on China to resolve the dispute peacefully. China responded by stepping up enforcement capabilities and deploying a smorgasbord of government maritime agencies: the Maritime Safety Administration, the Fisheries Law Enforcement Command, the State Oceanic Administration, and China Marine Surveillance, not to mention the China Coast Guard under the Ministry of Public Security and provincial-level maritime authorities, most notably those of Hainan Island  all distinct from rapid growth of the Chinese navy and air force. 

*Chinas first aircraft carrier received much attention; for the near future its not an operational military asset.*

*Chinas first aircraft carrier received much attention, but for the near future its a training platform, not an operational military asset. Maritime police in their multiple manifestations are another matter. *

Growth of that force is spelled out by the Beijing correspondent for The Los Angeles Times: For example, since 2000 the Chinese military has transferred 11 former warships to the Marine Surveillance agency, which has built 13 ships of its own and plans 36 more. The Fisheries Law Enforcement Command recently took control of a former warship equipped with a helicopter landing pad. Those new vessels are kept busy. The US Pacific Command estimates that the number of long-range patrols by Chinese maritime police in the South China Sea has tripled since 2008. As one US naval officer observed in the Times article, Chinese maritime surveillance cutters have no other mission but to harass other nations into submitting to Chinas expansive claims. They have cut cables towing Vietnamese sonar arrays, arrested and intimidated Southeast Asian fishermen, harassed US naval vessels and, in one case, erected a barrier to establish Chinas exclusive control. These non-naval Chinese vessels are not equipped with military weapons, but demonstrate prowess with water cannons and grappling hooks  sparking frustration and a sense of helplessness among Chinas neighboring countries.

*China may have shot itself in the foot strategically, but not at the tactical level. Southeast Asian countries lack the capability to match the Chinese on or over the water with military or coast guard assets, a gap in capabilities growing monthly. Bluntly put, Chinese maritime enforcement agencies can muscle other Southeast Asians aside at will  with Vietnamese military outposts being the principle possible exception. Meanwhile, the US has long declared that it takes no position on territorial claims in the South China Sea, insisting on two principles: maintenance of international sea lanes in the area as a global commons and resolution of territorial disputes without using military force. By using unarmed coast guard forces to enforce claims, China exploits vulnerability in the US position.*

*By using unarmed coast guard forces to enforce claims, China exploits vulnerability in the US position.*

Consider what happened at Scarborough Shoal, an atoll claimed by the Philippines and much closer to the Philippines than to China. Chinese maritime police prevented Philippine counterparts from arresting Chinese fishermen poaching protected species and then placed a cable across the lagoon that effectively excluded Philippine fishermen from their traditional waters  under the nose of the US Navy, which had no basis for intervening. Scarborough Shoal illustrates an increasingly evident Chinese tactic: Seize a vulnerable outcrop, establish permanent presence and defend it with nonmilitary assets. At this point, theres little to suggest that Washington has developed, even conceptually, an effective counter.

Chinas leverage over Southeast Asia includes a major economic component. As late as the 1990s, the US and Japan were major economic partners of Southeast Asia. No longer  China has displaced both to become the major trading partner to the region  while its investment footprint continues to grow rapidly. The linkages go beyond simply exporting goods, services and money. With the ASEAN-China Free Trade Agreement as a centerpiece, China has negotiated a plethora of economic agreements with the region including an array of infrastructure projects linking Southeast Asia with southern interior China. Chinese companies are building impressive rail, road and riverine networks plus power grids and ports  knitting Southeast Asia and China together in an integrated economic unit. It doesnt take great acumen to imagine how these linkages and related dependencies can be used for strategic leverage and to disrupt other regional ties. At the 2012 ASEAN Foreign Ministers Meeting hosted by Cambodia, a dispute arose when the Philippines insisted that the joint communiqué concluding the gathering contain a reference to Chinese actions in the South China Sea. The Cambodian chairman refused, and the meeting dissolved in acrimony. Cambodian officials privately made it clear that they acted in response to a demand from China, backed by threat of severe economic consequences if Phnom Penh did not comply. In effect, Beijing demonstrated capability to veto any united position in ASEAN regarding the South China Sea. 

*Chinas neighbors dont dare shoot at a vessel in what they consider their territory if the ship carries tourists.*

Chinas introduction of a tourist cruise boat in the contested waters presents the region with another challenge. No Southeast neighbors would dare to shoot at a vessel in what they consider their territory if the ship carries civilian tourists.

*It can be argued that Chinas decision to strip away the veil of ambiguity over its territorial intentions in the South China Sea was a strategic blunder. Its generated alarm in Southeast Asia, particularly in governments that have their own claims in the area  Vietnam, Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines and even Indonesia. It also produced the US pivot toward Asia, including statements by the Secretary of Defense that US forces would be redeployed to Asia and those redeployments would be shielded from budget cuts. Governments in Vietnam, the Philippines, Singapore and Indonesia have moved overtly to strengthen security cooperation with the US. A region once broadly relaxed and well-disposed toward China is now very much on edge.*

The strategic future of Southeast Asia and its maritime precincts is neither cut and dried nor predictable. China has staked out a dramatic, even brazen, claim, one lacking support in international law, to territory not under its historical control. However dubious the claim may be on merits, China has developed the tactics and leverage to make that claim a first-order strategic challenge to the region and the US. 


Marvin Ott is a public policy scholar with the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars and adjunct professor and visiting research scholar with Johns Hopkins University.

Winning Without A Fight In The South China Sea

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## NiceGuy

> China&#8217;s neighbors don&#8217;t dare shoot at a vessel in what they consider their territory if the ship carries tourists
> 
> Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...a-sea-news-discussions-131.html#ixzz2QG95KqvI


But we dare to ram. And I dont think rich Chinese will risk their precious lives to cruise to disputed zone

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## shuttler

NiceGuy said:


> But we dare to ram. And I dont think rich Chinese will risk their precious lives to cruise to disputed zone



we are waiting for your &#8220;ram&#8221;&#65281;Dont chicken out&#65281;

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## shuttler

EastSea said:


> Also it as, you are cooking and typing keyboard now, you are worry about your rice. To be care, you will be insulted by your mother if rice is burn.



We dined outside tonight. Have had some very nice dishes of fish, beef and vegies.



> Note that I don't care about kitchen, my wife's job she cook for me, she set up electric rice cooker, it's finish.



Thanks for revealing you are a lesbian nanny!



> Our separatists were H'mong people, their homeland in China, they can turn back to China.



Ah, dont know this before. Now you have your sore spot to tell!




> I said we beating "Uncle" ran away with bloody heads.



you revere usa more than your "uncle" - slavery mindsets




> To be carefully, it should happen in any time. All the contractors is big mouth when they can sign the contract with hug amount money and they have been paid enough pension to it.



We are very careful with contractual undertakings. China is getting better! 



> Ya, you let Taiwan sleep with Uncle to get money, well done!



Taiwanese has all the capabilities and intelligence to take advantage of foreign trades with US and other parts of the world.
Sleeping with americans is your country's expertise.



> We don't have problem with North Korea now, just you Chinese use Korean to discuss with USA to take positive position on region. North Korea can "mistaken" change the direction of nuke to the traitor nearby him.



I dont think the Koreans have any trouble with you but it so happens their missiles go astray and land on your roof while you and your wife are cooking. They accidentally help us wipe out the pirates of South China Sea! Hahahah!


----------



## jhungary

yusheng said:


> Please don't make personal attack, i am not dude, you are not either.
> 
> yes, some undisputed now, all the disputes will be solved sooner or later by any means, i don't see US made it undisputed by negotiation.
> 
> i agree with you too that war is the only way. so please shut up about internaional laws here and be integrate.
> 
> want to act as God , be God first, fortunately fake and selfish God is going down.




Lol if you consider dude is an insult..........AS IF LOL...

Common Sample of Chinese Fail, ask if US territories is legit and got stuff the f'ed up....LOL

World changed, it's isn't 1500 AD anymore, war does not solve dispute, if you want war so badly, why don't you start one already, instead of chest thumping out here.

Also. I ask this to any Chinese member here talking about war. When bullet start flying, are you gonna be the one in front, or you are going to hide behind your sofa and your couch just like an arm chair general you are??

If you talk the talk, PLEASE DO walk the walk, otherwise you are just blowing hot air. 

War maybe good to Chinese, it kills off the dumb and dumber


----------



## jhungary

Maxtini said:


> Sigh~ I'm talking "connection" in term of physical claim. The sea between Christmas Island and Mainland Australia do not take into the form of U shaped as what China did.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know which reefs/banks have you been pointing, but from the calculation drawn according to UNCLOS, it is impossible to touch Natuna EEZ:
> Go to: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Baselines_of_Eastern_Asia_English.png
> 
> 
> There is nothing called "line of control" in UNCLOS, except China unilaterally decided so against UNCLOS it ratified. (which is why I've argued it has become worse than US)
> 
> The only control a state might have on the sea is through territorial water entitled by extending 12 nm from coastline or baseline.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't see the relevancy here. Christmas Island are Australian territory, but the sea between Christmas Island and Mainland Australia is not Australian territorial/Internal Water. Australian do not demarcate "line of control" between Mainland Australia and Christmas Island. The Australia only has 12 nm territorial water "control" surrounding christmas Island. This is of course comply with UNCLOS
> 
> In contrast, the Chinese claim internal/territorial water by its U-shaped claim, which I said does not comply with UNCLOS.
> 
> 
> 
> And hence its non-compliance with UNCLOS. UNCLOS states that territorial water as well as EEZ are drawn base on coastal line or baseline connecting outermost islands. If a non-archipelagic states have archipelagoes, its archipelagoes will be treated seperately and be drawn baseline separately from Mainland, as in the case of Australian Christmas Island, which territorial sea are drawn separately from Mainland.
> 
> 
> 
> As I said, UNCLOS don't recognize arbitrary line of control on the sea. The actual line of control is the territorial water drawn 12 nm from the baseline either from mainland coatal line or archipelagic baseline.
> 
> 
> So why did the Chinese not compliant with UNCLOS in drawing their U-shaped claim? Claiming and Island is different matter as I said, drawing EEZ is different. The fact is, China claim SCS as its internal water (you said it) even before it has asserted its ownership, and thus non-compliance with UNCLOS
> 
> 
> 
> I don't say the SCS island ownership dispute can be solved through UNCLOS. I just merely assert that China did not comply with UNCLOS, please read my first post regarding this matter. Claiming an Island also means claiming the EEZ surrounding it, at least when you're claiming an island, the EEZ drawn must be compliant with UNCLOS, which Malaysia, Philippines, and Brunei did. But, in the case of China, even if, I stressed "if", China own the islands, it has chose not to comply with UNCLOS by drawing the 9-dashed line as internal water, an hence arrogant to ignore UNCLOS it ratified.
> 
> This is different from Philippines, Brunei, and Malaysia claim. They claim the islands, but they comply with UNCLOS in laying their claim of EEZ if they own the island.
> 
> The U-shaped claim as I said is not compliance with UNCLOS. A countries might claim an island with its EEZ defined just like Philippines, Malaysia, and Brunei. In Australian example, it claim portion of Antarctic (which no other countries recognize) and the sea surrounding it based on UNCLOS. In this case Australia comply with UNCLOS even if the ownership of Antarctic is disputed.
> 
> China didn't even bother to comply to UNCLOS, which is why I said it has become arrogant like US and the point of this lengthy debate.



Well, I am not gonna reply one by one and I probably will not reply you anymore. I don't think we are at the same level.

First of all. Australian Claim of Christmas Island and most US territories Claim is not about a any shape line. Chinese can cliam sovereignty of any island in any dotted line in the world, it does not need to be sparsely nor shaped. It only need to make sense. *Since you and me is not a judge, we have no right to reject the claim (the connection) make sense or not*. They can claim it, that does not mean they own it. It's neither about any shape line, form or base. 

Second of all. The coordinate I gave is Amboyna Cay Island in Spratly chain to north-eastern part of Natuna Island

I did not use name, I punch in the coordinate and according to Wikipedia the Coordinate of Amboyna Cay island is 7.88333°N 112.917°E. 

Amboyna Cay - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now, punch it in with the Google map and see it for yourselves. 

Thirdly, I am not talking about UNCLOS. UNCLOS only cover 3 things.

1 Definition of Territorial Water, Contiguous Zone, EEZ
2 What you can do within each and every one
3 How you can settle dispute.

You keep saying the 9 dotted line the Chinese claiming is for it's own EEZ. *YOU ARE WRONG. * I can show you, you don't need to read the rest of the post but the following part is important.

EEZ only allow the country that have it to enforce it sole right for economic activities, such as fishery, mineral mining. However, it does not give right to the host country to stop shipping. EEZ still have freedom of navigation within, as if it was in international water. The reason why Japan, US and Australia are concern not because they will fish or drill oil in SCS. But they need the shipping lane open. Chinese claim is on the Island itself. Which make the island part of their extended land border, if the claim are successful. It will make the whole SCS Chinese's internal water. BY the China can set their own rule on who have Nav right and who can enter, thus effectively blocked off the whole SCS.

UNCLOS cannot stop China making claim that they own then island. They can only enforce the law on the sea, not on the land. 
So UNCLOS is just useless on Chinese claim

Forget about island, forget about the EEZ, if Chinese successfully claim the islands in SCS are their sovereignty, then the whole SCS will be their internal water. And it will as the law is set on UNCLOS. Can they claim the islands or not is not the matter of UNCLOS directly. Which you still believe their claim is based on UNCLOS and EEZ, which is not correct 

I don't think you understand my point, or you won't change you mind, and I won't change my mind either, you don't need to reply me anymore or we will just got in to this eternal tangle of you said I said.


----------



## EastSea

shuttler said:


> We dined outside tonight. Have had some very nice dishes of fish, beef and vegies.



Good luck for you, no chicken, viruse H7N9 is available every where in China now.



> Thanks for revealing you are a lesbian nanny!



No ! &#26029;&#34966;&#20043;&#30294; is invented from long time by Chinese.




> Ah, dont know this before. Now you have your sore spot to tell!



native land of H'mong people was in China. Chinese copied Ban Co story from them.



> you revere usa more than your "uncle" - slavery mindsets



we fought against them, but china kneed and begged USA let you to join to UN. 



> We are very careful with contractual undertakings. China is getting better!



No evidence for that, just waiting for serious accident could be in near future. You can' sleep well with old technology.



> Taiwanese has all the capabilities and intelligence to take advantage of foreign trades with US and other parts of the world.
> Sleeping with americans is your country's expertise.



We have been handling with them as invaders, beating them ran away, but you proud for that USA control Taiwan like "ho" and you said that she is "intelligence", it's true Confucius idea now in China.





> I dont think the Koreans have any trouble with you but it so happens their missiles go astray and land on your roof while you and your wife are cooking. They accidentally help us wipe out the pirates of South China Sea! Hahahah!



No, they can help us wipe out aggressive neighbor of both from map of world,

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ViXuyen

shuttler said:


> As a matter of greatly improved diplomatic, strategic and trade relationship, Russia has promised us to insert a tiny chip into each of these missiles which will cause the rocket engines to veer off from their paths and fall into SCS!


Epic chinamen simpletons. 

You no longer buy stuff from Russia, you are currently ripping them off after you receive tech transfer from them. Even India is on its way to become self reliant in weapon production. Is Russia stupid enough to lose a customer like Viet Nam knowing that their Russian's arms market is keep getting smaller?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## yusheng

jhungary said:


> Lol if you consider dude is an insult..........AS IF LOL...
> 
> Common Sample of Chinese Fail, ask if US territories is legit and got stuff the f'ed up....LOL
> 
> World changed, it's isn't 1500 AD anymore, war does not solve dispute, if you want war so badly, why don't you start one already, instead of chest thumping out here.
> 
> Also. I ask this to any Chinese member here talking about war. When bullet start flying, are you gonna be the one in front, or you are going to hide behind your sofa and your couch just like an arm chair general you are??
> 
> If you talk the talk, PLEASE DO walk the walk, otherwise you are just blowing hot air.
> 
> War maybe good to Chinese, it kills off the dumb and dumber





ok, the dude

if you are happy to be called dude.

when i asked you the suggestions about disputes, you said war; when i agree with you, you said war is not good. what really you want to say?

or do you say that only US can declare a war on this earth?

or you can not reason rationally like a snake tried to bite his own tail, but i see you posted the longest here, please go and find a shrink.

i have to show a degree of respect for the Vietnamese members, at least they are fighting for their interests here, rather than pretending. 

save your hypocritical words.


----------



## jhungary

yusheng said:


> ok, the dude
> 
> if you are happy to be called dude.
> 
> when i asked you the suggestions about disputes, you said war; when i agree with you, you said war is not good. what really you want to say?
> 
> or do you say that only US can declare a war on this earth?
> 
> or you can not reason rationally like a snake tried to bite his own tail, but i see you posted the longest here, please go and find a shrink.
> 
> i have to show a degree of respect for the Vietnamese members, at least they are fighting for their interests here, rather than pretending.
> 
> save your hypocritical words.



*Do you even know what's the black tag on my username mean??*

It mean a Military Professional. That mean I was in the Military, may or may not fought a war.

I do not say War is not a good method to solve the problem in SCS. I am just saying, less talking, more acting. You join the Military like me and go fought for your country freedom. Otherwise it's not point pushing war if you are going to ask somebody to fight it for you.

I have seen war, you want to see what I saw??

If you are not going to join the fight to safeguard your national interest, then please talk about peaceful resolution. Otherwise just talking about war here is just getting old. Keep hearing retard Chinese blowing trumpet and talk about war to other nation when he or she him/herself have no idea what a war looks like, except what they saw on the TV.


----------



## NiceGuy

shuttler said:


> we are waiting for your &#8220;ram&#8221;&#65281;Dont chicken out&#65281;


We don't waste our time to ram those poor & low-life Chinese like you bcz ur life is valualess. We ram the Rich one who can afford to buy the ship's ticket

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Malaya

*Philippines' UN appeal on Scarborough standoff will also benefit China - DFA chief*






*MANILA &#8211; The Philippines&#8217; request for arbitral proceedings under the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) will also benefit China, Foreign Affairs Secretary Albert Del Rosario told his peers in Brunei. *

Speaking at the ASEAN Foreign Ministers&#8217; Meeting in Bandar Seri Begawan, Del Rosario said that the process will clarify for both the Philippines and China their respective lawful maritime entitlements in the South China Sea under UNCLOS. 

This would also help the rising superpower provide responsible leadership toward fostering stability in the region, he said.

*&#8220;For the Philippines, it will clearly define what is legitimately ours, specifically maritime entitlements under UNCLOS with regards to our fishing rights, rights to resources and rights to enforce our laws within our Exclusive Economic Zone,&#8221;* the secretary explained. 

*&#8220;For ASEAN and the rest of the global community, the clarification of maritime entitlements under UNCLOS would assure peace, security, stability, and freedom of navigation in the region,&#8221;* he added.

The secretary seems to be reacting to the views made by Dr. Ruan Zongze, vice president and senior research fellow at the Beijing-based China Institute of International Studies (CIIS) under the Ministy of Foreign Affairs.

In a forum last March, Ruan said China won&#8217;t participate in the UN proceedings because China has no basis for participating in that process and would only be negatively affected by its participation. He also said the core issues of sovereignty and territorial integrity cannot be solved by an international arbitration.

Del Rosario also said the proceedings is a peaceful means to resort the conflict.

&#8220;The Philippines shall always adhere to the peaceful settlement of disputes through lawful, non-coercive, and transparent means that promote the healthy functioning of an equitable and rules-based international system,&#8221; the secretary said.
*
UN arbitration has no effect on PH position on Code of Conduct*

Del Rosario also reiterated that the Philippines&#8217; desire to have a legally binding Code of the Conduct in the South China Sea (COC) has not changed. 

*&#8220;We will continue to work with ASEAN and China in crafting the COC and in implementing our commitments under the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea (DOC),&#8221;* the secretary said.

Again, this seems a reaction to Ruan&#8217;s view that going to the UN would derail the drafting and the adoption of the COC.

To ASEAN, which is said to issue a statement on the conflict in the South China Sea, Del Rosario urged the regional bloc to focus on solidarity in taking a stronger position on violations of the DOC.

Philippines' UN appeal on Scarborough standoff will also benefit China - DFA chief - InterAksyon.com

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Malaya

*PH to stick with arbitration under UNCLOS to pursue Spratly claims*
By Jerry E. Esplanada
Philippine Daily Inquirer

*MANILA, Philippines &#8212; The Philippines reiterated, on Thursday, its commitment to the peaceful settlement of its claims in the West Philippine Sea or the South China Sea area through arbitration proceedings under the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, or UNCLOS.
*
Speaking before the Association of Southeast Asian Nations&#8217; foreign ministers meeting in Bandar Seri Begawan, Foreign Affairs Secretary Albert del Rosario emphasized on Thursday, that *&#8220;the Philippines&#8217; recourse to arbitration is firmly rooted in the tradition of good global citizenship.&#8221;*

*&#8220;The Philippines shall always adhere to the peaceful settlements of disputes through lawful, non-coercive and transparent means that promote the healthy functioning of an equitable and rules-based international system,&#8221; *said the Department of Foreign Affairs head.

Del Rosario asserted that Manila&#8217;s arbitration initiative, &#8220;when objectively considered, will benefit all parties.&#8221;

*&#8220;For the Philippines, it will clearly define what is legitimately ours, specifically maritime entitlements under the UNCLOS with regards to our fishing rights to resources and our right to enforce our laws within our Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ),&#8221;* he said.

*For China*, *&#8220;an arbitration award will finally clarify its lawful maritime entitlements in the South China Sea,&#8221;* he pointed out.

*&#8220;This will enable China to provide responsible leadership towards fostering stability in the region,&#8221; *according to Del Rosario.

At the same time, he reiterated that &#8220;the Philippines&#8217; desire to have a legally binding Code of Conduct in the South China Sea has not changed.&#8221;

*&#8220;We will continue to work with ASEAN and China in crafting the COC and in implementing our commitments under the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea (DOC),&#8221; he said, adding ASEAN should &#8220;focus on solidarity in taking a stronger position on violations of the DOC.&#8221;*

In a related development, the DFA said China had yet to respond to the Philippines&#8217; request for clarification of its new maritime rules in the West Philippine Sea.

*Beijing* *&#8220;did not reply to our note (verbale),&#8221;* Assistant Secretary Raul Hernandez told the Philippine Daily Inquirer.

Sometime in late December, China sent its first patrol vessel to disputed parts of the West Philippine Sea ahead of its enforcement of new rules that authorized Chinese border police to board search and expel foreign vessels from waters Beijing considers its territory.

The patrol chief Haixun 21 reportedly sailed into the high seas under the administration of the Maritime Safety Administration of Hanan Province from which China administers the West Philippine Sea.

Del Rosario then said that if the reports proved correct, the Philippines would ask the Chinese why they were patrolling and in what areas.

The new rules came into effect on January 1, but ASEAN nations and the United States had asked China for clarification on their purpose and extent.

China claims almost the entire West Philippine Sea, but the Philippines, Malaysia, Vietnam and Brunei claim parts of the sea within their EEZs. Taiwan also claims some islands in the same sea.

The Philippines and Vietnam are the more strident claimants, both pressing for the resolution of their claims according to UNCLOS and for a code of conduct in the region to prevent the conflicting claims from erupting into armed clashes.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## peaceful

Malaya said:


> *PH to stick with arbitration under UNCLOS to pursue Spratly claims*
> By Jerry E. Esplanada
> Philippine Daily Inquirer
> 
> *MANILA, Philippines &#8212; The Philippines reiterated, on Thursday, its commitment to the peaceful settlement of its claims in the West Philippine Sea or the South China Sea area through arbitration proceedings under the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, or UNCLOS.
> *


*

dude, time to grow up, as a founding member of UN, do you seriously believe UN treaties are used to protect thug states like PH?*


----------



## Malaya

peaceful said:


> dude, time to grow up, as a founding member of UN, do you seriously believe UN treaties are used to protect thug states like PH?


As a responsible member of the UN. The Philippines is talking of settling the issue at the United Nations. The Philippine claims are based on use, location, historical records, occupation and many other criteria. These criteria all give ample evidence for international law to decide. But why China refuses to have this issue settle at the United Nations? Are you afraid of the truth? is it because the whole world knows, there is no country in the world that controls that vast amount of water? Who is living a fantasy now? 

Well if you claim the whole South China Sea and islands as yours, FIGHT for it DIPLOMATICALLY. This is the 21st Century, not some King Kong Dynasty. The International court interprets the law of the civilized nations.If the UN court says it belongs to you, then we will give it to you. If the UN court says the Philippines is correct then China is against the rest of the world if they will not comply. That's why it's a good move to include the UN, such endeavor to seek solution is the legal process, it promotes peace and harmony to all nation claimants.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## auspice

peaceful said:


> dude, time to grow up, as a founding member of UN, do you seriously believe UN treaties are used to protect thug states like PH?


It doesn't give you and your Communist daddy the right to bully other nations based on some "Historical Fairy Tales", you don't right a wrong by doing another wrong, genius. Does Taiwan wholeheartedly wants to be ruled by China right now? Can you name me a single country or island who loves to be ruled by the Chinese Communists? Got an idea? 

I'm not trying to be all high mighty 'cos what I'm saying are just truth and what's real. China is acting the way it is 'cos of the sole reason that it is so envious and jealous of the West, trying to copy something that is impossible to copy. But anyway, the Chinese is awesome in copying and counterfeiting anyway so maybe they can somehow, although, it would be low quality for sure. 

Chinese always cheat specially in business, they engage themselves in unfair trade practices, they exported their products around the world tainted with lead, melamine, formalin, cyanide just to name a few, unmindful of the harmful effects to humans. Slowly creeping to advance their interest by hook or by crook.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## auspice

double post


----------



## Bob Ong

Malaya said:


> *PH to stick with arbitration under UNCLOS to pursue Spratly claims*
> By Jerry E. Esplanada
> Philippine Daily Inquirer
> 
> *MANILA, Philippines &#8212; The Philippines reiterated, on Thursday, its commitment to the peaceful settlement of its claims in the West Philippine Sea or the South China Sea area through arbitration proceedings under the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, or UNCLOS.
> *
> Speaking before the Association of Southeast Asian Nations&#8217; foreign ministers meeting in Bandar Seri Begawan, Foreign Affairs Secretary Albert del Rosario emphasized on Thursday, that *&#8220;the Philippines&#8217; recourse to arbitration is firmly rooted in the tradition of good global citizenship.&#8221;*
> 
> *&#8220;The Philippines shall always adhere to the peaceful settlements of disputes through lawful, non-coercive and transparent means that promote the healthy functioning of an equitable and rules-based international system,&#8221; *said the Department of Foreign Affairs head.
> 
> Del Rosario asserted that Manila&#8217;s arbitration initiative, &#8220;when objectively considered, will benefit all parties.&#8221;
> 
> *&#8220;For the Philippines, it will clearly define what is legitimately ours, specifically maritime entitlements under the UNCLOS with regards to our fishing rights to resources and our right to enforce our laws within our Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ),&#8221;* he said.
> 
> *For China*, *&#8220;an arbitration award will finally clarify its lawful maritime entitlements in the South China Sea,&#8221;* he pointed out.
> 
> *&#8220;This will enable China to provide responsible leadership towards fostering stability in the region,&#8221; *according to Del Rosario.
> 
> At the same time, he reiterated that &#8220;the Philippines&#8217; desire to have a legally binding Code of Conduct in the South China Sea has not changed.&#8221;
> 
> *&#8220;We will continue to work with ASEAN and China in crafting the COC and in implementing our commitments under the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea (DOC),&#8221; he said, adding ASEAN should &#8220;focus on solidarity in taking a stronger position on violations of the DOC.&#8221;*
> 
> In a related development, the DFA said China had yet to respond to the Philippines&#8217; request for clarification of its new maritime rules in the West Philippine Sea.
> 
> *Beijing* *&#8220;did not reply to our note (verbale),&#8221;* Assistant Secretary Raul Hernandez told the Philippine Daily Inquirer.
> 
> Sometime in late December, China sent its first patrol vessel to disputed parts of the West Philippine Sea ahead of its enforcement of new rules that authorized Chinese border police to board search and expel foreign vessels from waters Beijing considers its territory.
> 
> The patrol chief Haixun 21 reportedly sailed into the high seas under the administration of the Maritime Safety Administration of Hanan Province from which China administers the West Philippine Sea.
> 
> Del Rosario then said that if the reports proved correct, the Philippines would ask the Chinese why they were patrolling and in what areas.
> 
> The new rules came into effect on January 1, but ASEAN nations and the United States had asked China for clarification on their purpose and extent.
> 
> China claims almost the entire West Philippine Sea, but the Philippines, Malaysia, Vietnam and Brunei claim parts of the sea within their EEZs. Taiwan also claims some islands in the same sea.
> 
> The Philippines and Vietnam are the more strident claimants, both pressing for the resolution of their claims according to UNCLOS and for a code of conduct in the region to prevent the conflicting claims from erupting into armed clashes.


It is a wise move because it would be regrettable if the Philippines would be caught by surprised by the illegal aggressiveness of China to claim the whole South China Sea/East Sea/West Philippine Sea.



peaceful said:


> dude, time to grow up, as a founding member of UN, do you seriously believe UN treaties are used to protect thug states like PH?


Philippines' request for action by the United Nations on the sea disputes is only right and proper so that right perspectives are put into placed where the Philippines' claim for sovereignty over the disputed islands are concerned.



Malaya said:


> As a responsible member of the UN. The Philippines is talking of settling the issue at the United Nations. The Philippine claims are based on use, location, historical records, occupation and many other criteria. These criteria all give ample evidence for international law to decide. But why China refuses to have this issue settle at the United Nations? Are you afraid of the truth? is it because the whole world knows, there is no country in the world that controls that vast amount of water? Who is living a fantasy now?
> 
> Well if you claim the whole South China Sea and islands as yours, FIGHT for it DIPLOMATICALLY. This is the 21st Century, not some King Kong Dynasty. The International court interprets the law of the civilized nations.If the UN court says it belongs to you, then we will give it to you. If the UN court says the Philippines is correct then China is against the rest of the world if they will not comply. That's why it's a good move to include the UN, such endeavor to seek solution is the legal process, it promotes peace and harmony to all nation claimants.


Could'nt agree more. Besides the nine-dashed line is not anywhere in UNCLOS, so basically, it's an excessive claim. Nothing in UNCLOS documents could legally substantiate that line. Of course, China has resorted to "ancient" maps, which in itself are dubious. The nine-dash line has never been clarified by China. No coordinates were even sent to the UN to clarify which features China claims. In other words, China is playing the role of strategic ambiguity to claim as much features in the SCS/ES/WPhS as possible.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Bob Ong

*Asean Ministers Emphasized On Peaceful Resolution Of South China Sea*

From Rohani Mohd Ibrahim

BANDAR SERI BEGAWAN, April 11 (Bernama) -- The Asean Ministers Meeting In Preparation for the 22nd Asean Summit Thursday emphasised the importance of maintaining peace, stability, mutual trust and cooperation to enhance maritime security and ensure peaceful resolution of disputes in the South China Sea, a statement from Brunei Foreign Affairs and Trade Ministry said.

The statement which was issued after the two-day meeting ended today, said ensuring peaceful resolution of disputes in the South China Sea is in accordance with the universally recognised principles of international law, including the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS).

"The Asean Ministers also reiterated the need for all parties to exercise self-restraint in conducting activities that would complicate or escalate disputes.

"The ministers further reiterated their statement on the six-point principles on the South China Sea and emphasised the need to maintain momentum on dialogue and consultations following the positive outcome of the 19th Asean-China Senior Officials Consultations," it added.

The statement said the ministers tasked their Senior Officials to work actively with China on the way forward for the early conclusion of the Code of Conduct on the basis of consensus.

On the last day of the meeting today, Brunei's Foreign Affairs and Trade Minister Prince Mohamed Bolkiah chaired three meetings which included Asean Ministerial Meeting, the 9th Asean Political and Security Community Council (APSC) and the 12th Asean Coordinating Council in preparation for the 22nd Asean Summit on April 24 and 25.

All the meetings were held at the International Convention Centre (ICC) here.

Malaysia's Foreign Affairs Ministry secretary-general Tan Sri Mohd Radzi Abdul Rahman represented Malaysia in all three meetings.

Besides peaceful resolution for South China Sea, the statement said, the meetings today also discussed the progress made since the 21st Asean Summit in November 2012, and also exchanged views on regional and international matters of mutual interest.

"This include political and security cooperation, the widening acceptance of the Treaty of Amity and Cooperation in South East Asia, ongoing work on the publication of the Asean Security Outlook and received reports from various Asean bodies for submission to the Asean leaders," it said.

Meanwhile, in a separate statement earlier today, the Brunei Foreign Affairs and Trade Ministry said, last night Prince Mohamed Bolkiah hosted a dinner for the Asean Foreign Ministers, at the ICC here.

During the dinner, he briefed colleagues and the new Asean Secretary-general Le Luong Ming on the preparations for the 22nd Asean Summit.

--BERNAMA

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Bob Ong

*China points finger at US over Asia-Pacific tensions*
Reuters in Beijing
Tuesday, 16 April, 2013 

China&#8217;s defence ministry made a thinly veiled attack on the United States on Tuesday for increasing tensions in the Asia-Pacific by ramping up its military presence and alliances in the region, days after the top US diplomat visited Beijing.

China is uneasy with what the United States has called the &#8220;rebalancing&#8221; of forces as Washington winds down the war in Afghanistan and renews its attention in the Asia-Pacific.

China says the policy has emboldened Japan, the Philippines and Vietnam in longstanding territorial disputes.

China faces &#8220;multiple and complicated security threats&#8221; despite its growing influence, the Ministry of Defence said in its annual white paper, adding that the US strategy meant &#8220;profound changes&#8221; for the region.

&#8220;There are some countries which are strengthening their Asia Pacific military alliances, expanding their military presence in the region and frequently make the situation there tenser,&#8221; the ministry said in the 40-page document, in a clear reference to the United States.

Such moves &#8220;do not accord with the developments of the times and are not conducive towards maintaining regional peace and stability&#8221;, ministry spokesman Yang Yujun told reporters.

The official People&#8217;s Liberation Army Daily went further, saying in a commentary on Monday China needed to beef up its defences to deal with a hostile West bent on undermining it.

&#8220;Hostile Western forces have intensified their strategy to westernise and split China, and employed every possible means to contain and control our country&#8217;s development,&#8221; it said.

On Monday, US Secretary of State John Kerry defended the re-orientation of US foreign policy towards Asia as he ended a trip to the region dominated by concerns about North Korea&#8217;s nuclear programme.

While China has been angered by North Korea&#8217;s behaviour, including its third nuclear test in February, it has also made clear it considers US displays of force in response to Pyongyang&#8217;s behaviour to be a worrisome development.

China is North Korea&#8217;s most important diplomatic and financial backer &#8211; the two fought together in the 1950-53 Korean war &#8211; although the ministry&#8217;s Yang would not be drawn on the subject aside from repeating a call for peace and dialogue.

China&#8217;s own military moves have worried the region too.

China unveiled another double-digit rise in military expenditure last month, to 740.6 billion yuan (US$119 billion) for this year, and is involved in protracted and often ugly disputes over a series of islands in the East and South China Seas.

&#8220;On the issues concerning China&#8217;s territorial sovereignty and maritime rights and interests, some neighbouring countries are taking actions that complicate or exacerbate the situation, and Japan is making trouble over the Diaoyu Islands issue,&#8221; the white paper said.

The dispute with Japan over the uninhabited islands, which China calls the Diaoyu and Japan calls Senkaku, has escalated in recent months to the point where China and Japan have scrambled fighter jets and patrol ships shadow each other.

The waters around the islands in the East China Sea are rich fishing grounds and have potentially huge oil and gas reserves.

Vietnam, Taiwan, Brunei, Malaysia and the Philippines also have conflicting claims with China in parts of the South China Sea. China lays claim to almost the whole of the sea, which is criss-crossed by crucial shipping lanes.

The US shift comes as China boosts military spending and builds submarines, surface ships and anti-ship ballistic missiles as part of its naval modernisation, and has tested emerging technology aimed at destroying missiles in mid-air.

China has repeatedly said the world has nothing to fear from its military spending, which it says is needed for legitimate defensive purposes in a complex and changing world, and that the sums spent pale in comparison with US defence expenditure.


----------



## p3avi8tor69

UNCLOS resolutions/decisions are meaningless if it cannot be enforced. Philippines would probably edge China in the dispute if Pinoys can get their act together but any legal victory is meaningless if it cannot be enforced in other words, if no one gives a crap then nothing comes out of it. As of now nobody gives a crap except the Pinoys. Even mighty America will not wade into meaningless territorial disputes especially when the disputes have no bearing or benefit to us.

You can parade with a sign saying you won but it would be shallow as the world doesn't care or cannot care as to not upset their relations with China.


----------



## Zero_wing

peaceful said:


> dude, time to grow up, as a founding member of UN, do you seriously believe UN treaties are used to protect thug states like PH?



Yes one the Philippine is archipelago state so yes one of the agenda of UNCLOS is to protect nation of archipelago countries like the Philippines two it was the Republic of china was the Founding member as too is the Philippines 1945 so what makes you people so special hack we were the first Asian country to have a Person to become President of the UN General Assembly so again what makes you people special?



p3avi8tor69 said:


> UNCLOS resolutions/decisions are meaningless if it cannot be enforced. Philippines would probably edge China in the dispute if Pinoys can get their act together but any legal victory is meaningless if it cannot be enforced in other words, if no one gives a crap then nothing comes out of it. As of now nobody gives a crap except the Pinoys. Even mighty America will not wade into meaningless territorial disputes especially when the disputes have no bearing or benefit to us.
> 
> You can parade with a sign saying you won but it would be shallow as the world doesn't care or cannot care as to not upset their relations with China.



So What chinese are you saying that force is the only way typical chinese logic!


----------



## p3avi8tor69

First of all I am not Chinese. I am an American who proudly served the best Navy of the world. Second, you need to re read my post. Just to sum it up, nobody cares about your dispute with China. You may win in Unclos but who's going to enforce your victory? Wake up, your government could not even get ASEAN to support you in your pissing match with the Chinese, and you are a founding member of ASEAN. That is just to show how weak your country is, diplomatically. And your little foray into Sabah has further weaken your already weak diplomatic influence.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zero_wing

p3avi8tor69 said:


> First of all I am not Chinese. I am an American who proudly served the best Navy of the world. Second, you need to re read my post. Just to sum it up, nobody cares about your dispute with China. You may win in Unclos but who's going to enforce your victory? Wake up, your government could not even get ASEAN to support you in your pissing match with the Chinese, and you are a founding member of ASEAN. That is just to show how weak your country is, diplomatically. And your little foray into Sabah has further weaken your already weak diplomatic influence.



Ya sure and am the capt. of the USS America!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## mahatir

shuttler said:


> you are funny nanny Eastsea. Look your rice is burning in the kitchen!
> 
> 
> 
> Tell your government to give these separatist a place to stay and form their country in vietnam if you have so much feeling towards them
> 
> 
> 
> you are sleeping with uncle this and uncle that even in your dreams
> 
> 
> 
> Thank heavens we have the safetest nuke plant records in the world
> 
> 
> 
> There another "uncle" obsession again!
> 
> The yankies can't do jack on Taiwan. Taiwanese are exploiting the yankies! well done!
> 
> Wait for the DPRK's nukes which will land on your roof when you are cooking in the kitchen nanny!



By the way Philipines was forced on us in ASEAN by the west , we never wanted these useless Western puppets .



shuttler said:


> We dined outside tonight. Have had some very nice dishes of fish, beef and vegies.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for revealing you are a lesbian nanny!
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, dont know this before. Now you have your sore spot to tell!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you revere usa more than your "uncle" - slavery mindsets
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We are very careful with contractual undertakings. China is getting better!
> 
> 
> 
> Taiwanese has all the capabilities and intelligence to take advantage of foreign trades with US and other parts of the world.
> Sleeping with americans is your country's expertise.
> 
> 
> 
> I dont think the Koreans have any trouble with you but it so happens their missiles go astray and land on your roof while you and your wife are cooking. They accidentally help us wipe out the pirates of South China Sea! Hahahah!



There is no way we could compare between China and Vietnam , this is more like comparing between lion and a mouse

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Bob Ong

If Philippines wins the case, I don&#8217;t think the US will leave the Philippines alone in this issue. When push comes to shove, the US will side with the Philippines. But, due to current economic considerations, you will never hear this openly in America's diplomatic channels. US announced that they are neutral regarding SCC status quo. Of course this is just but normal. Tomorrow's announcement may be different. Action always speaks louder than words. (Besides no country will ever shout to the public her future plan of actions as far as political and military strategies are concerned.) Whether China chooses to ignore the ruling of UNCLOS or not, or whether the ruling can be enforced, it does not matter. The ruling will still create a legal and moral weight to the international community. If at the end of the day if a FIRE is shot due to ignoring of latter due to defense of the other, then the international powers will be supporting the one wins this arbitration case.


----------



## NiceGuy

mahatir said:


> By the way Philipines was forced on us in ASEAN by the west , we never wanted these useless Western puppets .
> 
> 
> 
> There is no way we could compare between China and Vietnam , this is more like comparing between lion and a mouse


new false flagger ?Phil is one of ASEAN members and we VN support Phil, ur cheap words cant change the fact,dude.

As for the comparison between VN & China,if u think China can overwhelm VN in SCs(east sea), then dare u bet all of ur money on it ? Or all u can do is just to put some cheap insult to smaller nations

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Fsjal

p3avi8tor69 said:


> First of all I am not Chinese. I am an American who proudly served the best Navy of the world. Second, you need to re read my post. Just to sum it up, nobody cares about your dispute with China. You may win in Unclos but who's going to enforce your victory? Wake up, your government could not even get ASEAN to support you in your pissing match with the Chinese, and you are a founding member of ASEAN. That is just to show how weak your country is, diplomatically. And your little foray into Sabah has further weaken your already weak diplomatic influence.



That makes you a professional at least. Yes, no one really cares about the dispute with China since they have no hope on us, and also we have very little influence in ASEAN. Even Cambodia has more influence because of them being backed by China.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## shuttler

mahatir said:


> There is no way we could compare between China and Vietnam , this is more like comparing between lion and a mouse



We hate to make a comparison of these things but to focus working towards our goals

But many times trolls are asking for it!


----------



## USAHawk785

That's one strong "mouse", strong enough to force the retreat of the PLA from North Vietnam after they failed to take Hanoi in the Sino-Vietnamese War of 1979, at the same time, failing to prevent the Vietnamese toppling of the Beijing-backed Khmer Rouge. Big time strategic failure.

That "mouse" is one Mighty Mouse.... 



mahatir said:


> By the way Philipines was forced on us in ASEAN by the west , we never wanted these useless Western puppets .
> 
> 
> 
> There is no way we could compare between China and Vietnam , this is more like comparing between lion and a mouse



Cambodia has more influence? lol. Ridiculous. 



Fsjal said:


> That makes you a professional at least. Yes, no one really cares about the dispute with China since they have no hope on us, and also we have very little influence in ASEAN. Even Cambodia has more influence because of them being backed by China.



The Philippines is doing it the right way. 



Malaya said:


> As a responsible member of the UN. The Philippines is talking of settling the issue at the United Nations. The Philippine claims are based on use, location, historical records, occupation and many other criteria. These criteria all give ample evidence for international law to decide. But why China refuses to have this issue settle at the United Nations? Are you afraid of the truth? is it because the whole world knows, there is no country in the world that controls that vast amount of water? Who is living a fantasy now?
> 
> Well if you claim the whole South China Sea and islands as yours, FIGHT for it DIPLOMATICALLY. This is the 21st Century, not some King Kong Dynasty. The International court interprets the law of the civilized nations.If the UN court says it belongs to you, then we will give it to you. If the UN court says the Philippines is correct then China is against the rest of the world if they will not comply. That's why it's a good move to include the UN, such endeavor to seek solution is the legal process, it promotes peace and harmony to all nation claimants.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## shuttler

USAHawk785 said:


> That's one strong "mouse", strong enough to force the retreat of the PLA from North Vietnam after they failed to take Hanoi in the Sino-Vietnamese War of 1979, at the same time, failing to prevent the Vietnamese toppling of the Beijing-backed Khmer Rouge. Big time strategic failure.
> 
> That "mouse" is one Mighty Mouse....



Mighty mouse is in usa - which has to retreat from vietnam, korea, iraq, afghanistan, iran, somalia ...





> Cambodia has more influence? lol. Ridiculous. the Philippines is doing it the right way.



by asking their dad for rusty semi-broken second hands for free? or just about the worth of a dime to usa?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## USAHawk785

There is no denial of the tenacity and temerity of the Vietnamese fighting spirit. Despite the immense firepower of the US Airforce, and the US Navy, they were able to gain control of South Vietnam. 

The Chinese 'strategic' withdrawal from Vietnam's northern provinces was nothing more than a face-saving decision. 

The objective, secure the salvation of Cambodia by refocusing the Vietnamese Army from Cambodia to Vietnam, was already lost. The Vietnamese were able to arrest further PLA advances towards Hanoi. The Vietnamese were able to arrest the PLA with Vietnamese militia, not regular soldiers. 

Quite impressive. Honestly. I give the Viets that. 

To this day, Cambodia remains a pawn of Vietnam. Hun Sen is at the mercy of Hanoi. 

China is nothing more than a second 'daddy' for the Khmers. Cambodia's # 1 daddy is Vietnam.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## p3avi8tor69

Zero_wing said:


> Ya sure and am the capt. of the USS America!




No wonder you have become the joke of the site.

And what is your qualification? Let me see a call center agent.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## mahatir

USAHawk785 said:


> That's one strong "mouse", strong enough to force the retreat of the PLA from North Vietnam after they failed to take Hanoi in the Sino-Vietnamese War of 1979, at the same time, failing to prevent the Vietnamese toppling of the Beijing-backed Khmer Rouge. Big time strategic failure.
> 
> That "mouse" is one Mighty Mouse....
> 
> .



China conquered half of northern Vietnam during the short war and the vietcong ceded border towns to china , never to forget that China took over the strategic paracel Islands after defeating vietnam , that was their main aim. 

The chinese leadership did not continue into vietnam fearing actions from the stronger soviet union at that time , they had bases in vietnam during that time .

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## USAHawk785

*Addendum*:

Laos and Cambodia are both pawns of Vietnam. Of course, at the irritation of Thailand.

Why so depreciative? Call center agents in the Philippines are highly educated; many of them hold nursing, medical, even engineering degrees. Don't be infantile and narcissistic. 



p3avi8tor69 said:


> No wonder you have become the joke of the site.
> 
> And what is your qualification? Let me see a call center agent.



Strategic withdrawal. Period. 



mahatir said:


> China conquered half of northern Vietnam during the short war and the vietcong ceded border towns to china , never to forget that China took over the strategic paracel Islands after defeating vietnam , that was their main aim.
> 
> The chinese leadership did not continue into vietnam fearing actions from the stronger soviet union at that time , they had bases in vietnam during that time .

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## mahatir

shuttler said:


> We hate to make a comparison of these things but to focus working towards our goals
> 
> But many times trolls are asking for it!



True China should continue its domestic development , today power is not just about military but mainly economic power. Just look at Germany they now pretty much run the Euro Zone even though they do not have nuclear power , its all because of their economic might and they are humilaiting the rest of europe including France and Britain

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## p3avi8tor69

Fsjal said:


> That makes you a professional at least. Yes, no one really cares about the dispute with China since they have no hope on us, and also we have very little influence in ASEAN. Even Cambodia has more influence because of them being backed by China.



The Philippines has no influence because it is a poor nation with a huge diaspora working menial jobs in other countries. Just look at how Hong Kong treats the Philippines. HK has a travel black ban on the Philippines. The only other country on that list is Syria. Next, the denial of residency to the Filipino maid even though residency rules says the maid should have been given residency. It all boils down to zero respect for Pinoys. Even here in PDF Pinoys don't get much respect when they are represented by retards like Zero_wing.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## mahatir

USAHawk785 said:


> *Addendum*:
> 
> Laos and Cambodia are both pawns of Vietnam. Of course, at the irritation of Thailand.
> 
> Why so depreciative? Call center agents in the Philippines are highly educated; many of them hold nursing, medical, even engineering degrees. Don't be infantile and narcissistic.
> 
> 
> 
> Strategic withdrawal. Period.



Not really they still hold paracel islands till this day including the lands vietcong ceded back in 1980s .

Laos , Burma and Cambodia are China's puppets today .

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## shuttler

mahatir said:


> True China should continue its domestic development , today power is not just about military but mainly economic power. Just look at Germany they now pretty much run the Euro Zone even though they do not have nuclear power , its all because of their economic might and they are humilaiting the rest of europe including France and Britain



Thank you! The Germans are doing great to their country. They are deeply remorseful of what they did in WW2. The usa are far from that level yet&#65281;

Peace is most important for any country to advance. Let us hope there is not going to be any war in Asia, esp in the Peninsula now where provocations from the usa and military rebuttals from Kim are going on like comedies everyday!


----------



## USAHawk785

mahatir said:


> Not really they still hold paracel islands till this day including the lands vietcong ceded back in 1980s .
> 
> Laos , Burma and Cambodia are China's puppets today .



Laos is under the Vietnamese sphere of influence, and so is Cambodia. It is in her (Vietnam's) national interest to retain superfluous political, economic and military clout in these two countries as a means to counter Thailand, which is Vietnam's # 1 concern in South East Asia.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## USAHawk785

Laos is under the Vietnamese sphere of influence, and so is Cambodia. It is in her (Vietnam's) national interest to retain superfluous political, economic and military clout in these two countries as a means to counter Thailand, which is Vietnam's # 1 concern in South East Asia.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## USAHawk785

mahatir said:


> Not really they still hold paracel islands till this day including the lands vietcong ceded back in 1980s .
> 
> Laos , Burma and Cambodia are China's puppets today .



Laos is under the Vietnamese sphere of influence, and so is Cambodia. It is in her (Vietnam's) national interest to retain superfluous political, economic and military clout in these two countries as a means to counter Thailand, which is Vietnam's # 1 concern in South East Asia.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## p3avi8tor69

USAHawk785 said:


> *Addendum*:
> 
> Laos and Cambodia are both pawns of Vietnam. Of course, at the irritation of Thailand.
> 
> Why so depreciative? Call center agents in the Philippines are highly educated; many of them hold nursing, medical, even engineering degrees. Don't be infantile and narcissistic.



You misread the comment was for zero_wing. I never meant to insult call center agents. But since you brought the topic up, if Pinoys really have medical/engineering degrees then why are they toiling for jobs that pay $5k a year when the average medical doctor in the Philippines makes at least 5 times that much and engineers 3x?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## p3avi8tor69

double post


----------



## jhungary

I think people here are having some sort of double standard.

When US use its own influence and refused to wait for International Body to begin war in Iraq, Chinese member here jump up and down.

When China refuse UN intervention for land dispute, miraculously, all Chinese member jump up and rejoice. And blame the American, which have nothing to do with the whole dispute. LOL

Also, for a country that claim they don't mind other business and express disgust every time country like US and UK engage in other business. They sure very nosy about the ASEAN.

If that is not double standard, then I don't know what is.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## p3avi8tor69

double post

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## jhungary

I think people here are having some sort of double standard.

When US use its own influence and refused to wait for International Body to begin war in Iraq, Chinese member here jump up and down.

When China refuse UN intervention for land dispute, miraculously, all Chinese member jump up and rejoice. And blame the American, which have nothing to do with the whole dispute. LOL

Also, for a country that claim they don't mind other business and express disgust every time country like US and UK engage in other business. They sure very nosy about the ASEAN.

If that is not double standard, then I don't know what is.


----------



## NiceGuy

mahatir said:


> Not really they still hold paracel islands till this day including the lands vietcong ceded back in 1980s .
> 
> Laos , Burma and Cambodia are China's puppets today .


We control Laos-Camb's army,many VNese are general in Laos-Camb army now


----------



## NiceGuy

Self &#273;eleted...same post


----------



## NiceGuy

mahatir said:


> Not really they still hold paracel islands till this day including the lands vietcong ceded back in 1980s .
> 
> Laos , Burma and Cambodia are China's puppets today .


Paracel ils are just small & useless rocks only,and having no strategic position,too,so,China can occupy it as long as China cant drill any oil from there. Fooling urself abt Laos-Camb cant help u to change the Truth 


> In the 1980s, Laos and Cambodia had once more become Vietnam's client states. Laos, with a communist party long nurtured by the Vietnamese, entered the relationship with docility; Cambodia, however, under a ruthless, but anti-Vietnamese dictatorship of its own, resisted being drawn into the Vietnamese orbit. Tension between the two states escalated into open warfare and, in 1978, Hanoi launched an invasion that toppled the Pol Pot regime in Phnom Penh. In 1987 Cambodia remained a state governed precariously by a regime installed by Hanoi, its activities constrained by the presence of a substantial Vietnamese occupation force and a tenacious insurgency in the countryside.
> 
> Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-far-east/227105-vietnam-laos-cambodia.html#ixzz2QhXS579L

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ManilaBoy45

Aquino Pushes for Agreement in Disputed Waters During ASEAN Summit 

Manila Bulletin

By Madel Sabater-Namit
Published: April 17, 2013 


The Philippines will continue to push for the full implementation of the Code of Conduct in the South China Sea as President Benigno S. Aquino embarks on a two-day Leaders&#8217; Summit at the 22nd Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) Summit in Bandar Seri Begawan, Brunei next week.President Aquino leaves for Brunei on April 24 and will be back in Manila on April 25.

Cabinet members who will be joining President Aquino in the ASEAN Summit include Secretary to the Cabinet Jose Rene Almendras, Foreign Affairs Secretary Albert del Rosario, Trade Secretary Gregory Domingo, and Communications Secretary Herminio Coloma, Jr.Department of Foreign Affairs (DFA) spokesperson Asec. Raul Hernandez, in a press briefing in Malacanang on Wednesday, said maritime security and cooperation will be one of the agendas to be pushed by the Philippines during the ASEAN Summit.

&#8220;In the 22nd ASEAN Summit, the Philippines will continue to advocate maritime security and cooperation, to push for the full and effective implementation of the Declaration of the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea, for the early conclusion of a substantive and legally binding Code of Conduct,&#8221; Hernandez said.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## USAHawk785

p3avi8tor69 said:


> You misread the comment was for zero_wing. I never meant to insult call center agents. But since you brought the topic up, if Pinoys really have medical/engineering degrees then why are they toiling for jobs that pay $5k a year when the average medical doctor in the Philippines makes at least 5 times that much and engineers 3x?



Well, based on my interaction with Filipinos (and this interaction is constant, considering I'm a surgeon in a very prominent hospital in Chicago, most of the nursing staff , medical techs and a considerable number of our physicians/surgeons being of Filipino background), due to the lack of jobs in engineering, medicine, and nursing, these grads are going into call center work due to the job prospects. 

The pay for nurses and physicians in the Philippines is not as high as compared to the west, which is the catalyst for the immigration of Filipino educated professionals in the fields of Engineering, Medicine, Nursing, Medical Technology, Pharmacy etc to the west and/or other nations in need of their services. 

Nurses in the Philippines average at around 10-15 thousand pesos a month, some call center agents make 15-20 thousand pesos. 

You do the math. 

Anyone who dares to say Filipnos are not respected is sublimely fooling himself/herself. A very good friend of mine, a senior cardiothoracic surgeon at Rush University Hospital is a Filipino. A fine surgeon, I might add.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## USAHawk785

jhungary said:


> I think people here are having some sort of double standard.
> 
> When US use its own influence and refused to wait for International Body to begin war in Iraq, Chinese member here jump up and down.
> 
> When China refuse UN intervention for land dispute, miraculously, all Chinese member jump up and rejoice. And blame the American, which have nothing to do with the whole dispute. LOL
> 
> Also, for a country that claim they don't mind other business and express disgust every time country like US and UK engage in other business. They sure very nosy about the ASEAN.
> 
> If that is not double standard, then I don't know what is.




Good morning Swede,

I appreciate your observation. Direct and unmitigated.


----------



## Fsjal

Laos is a joke to Thailand, and same with Cambodia. Anyway, Thailand is influenced by USA and China. Vietnam does not stand a chance.



NiceGuy said:


> We control Laos-Camb's army,many VNese are general in Laos-Camb army now



Well, why does Cambodia army use Chinese weapons? 

Is this part of a Vietnam DREAM



NiceGuy said:


> Paracel ils are just small & *useless rocks only,and having no strategic position,too,so,China can occupy it as long as China cant drill any oil from there*. Fooling urself abt Laos-Camb cant help u to change the Truth



"USELESS" and yet you don't want China to drill oil?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NiceGuy

Fsjal said:


> Laos is a joke to Thailand, and same with Cambodia. Anyway, Thailand is influenced by USA and China. Vietnam does not stand a chance.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, why does Cambodia army use Chinese weapons?


Why can not use China's weapon ?VN also use China's weapon specially during VN war,too.


> "USELESS" and yet you don't want China to drill oil?
> 
> Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...a-sea-news-discussions-134.html#ixzz2QiBp6ls6


And China still cant drill now

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## shuttler

ManilaBoy45 said:


> Aquino Pushes for Agreement in Disputed Waters During ASEAN Summit
> Manila Bulletin
> By Madel Sabater-Namit
> Published: April 17, 2013
> 
> The Philippines will continue to push for the ,,blah blah .



no-one except the vietcong delegates are listening to him. 

Keep pushing into the next millenium, aquino! 

His efforts are asking for more rusty semi-broken american warships for free!



NiceGuy said:


> Why can not use China's weapon ?*VN also use China's weapon specially during VN war,too.
> *



shooting at the arses of many GIs! and your conscience call!



USAHawk785 said:


> Good morning Swede,
> 
> I appreciate your observation. Direct and unmitigated.



how naive, taking childish face values for an answer and rendering appreciation

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## shuttler

&#20013;&#22269;&#28023;&#20107;&#26368;&#20808;&#36827;&#25191;&#27861;&#33337;&#8220;&#28023;&#24033;01&#8221;China Maritime's most advanced law enforcement ship "Coast Guard 01" 

&#19979;&#36733;&#32452;&#22270;&#20013;&#22269;&#32593; china.com.cn&#12288;&#12288;&#26102;&#38388; date&#65306; 2013-Apr-16







2013 &#24180; 4&#26376;15&#26085;

&#8220;&#28023;&#24033;01&#8221;&#33337;&#20572;&#38752;&#22312;&#19978;&#28023;&#24066;&#40644;&#28006;&#27743;&#36793;&#30340;&#30721;&#22836;&#12290;&#24403;&#26085;&#65292;&#35760;&#32773;&#26469;&#21040;&#21363;&#23558;&#21015;&#32534;&#26381;&#24441;&#30340;&#8220;&#28023;&#24033;01&#8221;&#33337;&#65292;&#29992;&#38236;&#22836;&#25581;&#24320;&#20854;&#31070;&#31192;&#30340;&#38754;&#32433;&#12290;&#8220;&#28023;&#24033;01&#8221;&#24635;&#38271;128.6&#31859;&#65292;&#35774;&#35745;&#25490;&#27700;&#37327;5418&#21544;&#65292;&#23454;&#27979;&#33322;&#36895;20.8&#33410;&#65292;&#32493;&#33322;&#21147;&#36229;&#36807;1&#19975;&#28023;&#37324;&#65292;&#26381;&#24441;&#21518;&#30001;&#19978;&#28023;&#28023;&#20107;&#23616;&#31649;&#29702;&#65292;&#26159;&#25105;&#22269;&#28023;&#20107;&#31995;&#32479;&#30446;&#21069;&#35268;&#27169;&#26368;&#22823;&#12289;&#35013;&#22791;&#26368;&#20808;&#36827;&#12289;&#32508;&#21512;&#33021;&#21147;&#26368;&#24378;&#30340;&#25191;&#27861;&#33337;&#65292;&#20027;&#35201;&#29992;&#20110;&#22312;&#20013;&#22269;&#31649;&#36758;&#27700;&#22495;&#36827;&#34892;&#28023;&#20107;&#30417;&#31649;&#12289;&#28023;&#19978;&#20154;&#21629;&#25937;&#29983;&#21644;&#20197;&#28023;&#19978;&#20154;&#21629;&#25937;&#29983;&#20026;&#30446;&#30340;&#30340;&#33337;&#33334;&#25937;&#21161;&#12289;&#28023;&#19978;&#33337;&#33334;&#28322;&#27833;&#30417;&#27979;&#21644;&#24212;&#24613;&#22788;&#32622;&#12289;&#24212;&#23545;&#28023;&#19978;&#31361;&#21457;&#20107;&#20214;&#21644;&#22269;&#38469;&#20132;&#27969;&#21512;&#20316;&#31561;&#20219;&#21153;&#12290;&#26032;&#21326;&#31038;&#35760;&#32773;&#38472;&#39134; &#25668;

April 15, 2013

"Coast Guard 01" boat docked at the pier of the Huangpu River, Shanghai. Day, the reporter came to the ship the upcoming column programmed serving "Coast Guard 01", used the camera to reveal its mysterious veil. "Coast Guard 01" total length of 128.6 meters, the design displacement of 5418 tons, measured speed 20.8 knots, cruising over 10,000 sea miles, the service managed by the Shanghai Maritime Bureau, China's maritime system is the largest, most advanced equipment, the most comprehensive ability enforcement vessels, mainly for maritime regulatory waters under Chinese jurisdiction of Life at Sea, life-saving and life-saving of life at sea for the purpose of ship salvage, offshore oil spill monitoring and emergency response, to respond to emergencies at sea and international exchanges and cooperation and other tasks. Xinhua News Agency reporter Chen Feishe


























Courtesy for photos below: wenxuecity















Google translation


----------



## jhungary

USAHawk785 said:


> Good morning Swede,
> 
> I appreciate your observation. Direct and unmitigated.



LOL That's because this is the point........


----------



## Soryu

mahatir said:


> China conquered half of northern Vietnam during the short war and the vietcong ceded border towns to china , never to forget that China took over the strategic paracel Islands after defeating vietnam , that was their main aim.
> 
> The chinese leadership did not continue into vietnam fearing actions from the stronger soviet union at that time , they had bases in vietnam during that time .


LOL, big mighty China conquered half of northern Vietnam when all main forces of Vietnam in Cambodia, and retreat with "victory" and then began upgrade their military with Western's support.  
Fear Soviet Union!? China has America daddy on their back, 

They can take all Paracel and a part of Spartly because they aim at good chance, and nowaday, when Chinese said Vietnam power just was a joke to China, we still drill and explore oil from SCS, we still can play with them in this game well. (Well, well, when I said to this point, Chinese alway bring up economy, industry, Viets problem to cover their Ah-Q victory spirit...  )

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Bob Ong

mahatir said:


> By the way Philipines was forced on us in ASEAN by the west , we never wanted these useless Western puppets .
> 
> There is no way we could compare between China and Vietnam , this is more like comparing between lion and a mouse


and you think you are so special that China won't mess with you? FYI they are already in your Johnson Reef. 

Vietnam, which is a much more capable country than Malaysia got their cables cut-off by Chinese vessels. It won't be long until China starts harassing you or any country because they virtually claim the entire South China Sea as theirs, no exception.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Bob Ong

*PH, U.S. military aim for territorial defense force*

By Ronron Calunsod, Kyodo News

Posted at 04/17/2013 

*MANILA - The Philippines and U.S. military are considering the development of a force capable of handling the Philippines' strategic interest in the South China Sea, a high-ranking U.S. military official said Wednesday.*

The statement comes amid rising tension between China and other neighboring countries over some disputed areas in the South China Sea.

During the closing of the two countries' military exercises dubbed Balikatan (Shoulder-to-Shoulder) 2013, Lt. Gen. Terry Robling, commander of the U.S. Marine Corps Forces in the Pacific, said that while the territorial disputes in the Asia-Pacific region will have to be worked on through diplomatic channels, "having a strong defense" is also one tool that can be used, although, he hopes, as a last resort.

"One of the things that I talked to (Philippine military chief) Gen. (Emmanuel) Bautista about was a roadmap for us training with the armed forces of the Philippines," Robling told reporters.

He said they hoped to get the forces to the point of a "national maneuver force" that is best designed for territorial defense.

"I think, at some point, that will happen, but probably, not in the next exercise," he added.

The Philippines remains locked in a territorial row with China over parts of the Spratly group of islands and the Scarborough Shoal in the South China Sea. Tensions flared up in 2011, with the Philippines bringing the issue before the United Nations for arbitration.

The dispute has prompted the Philippine military to shift its strategic focus to territorial defense from internal security threats, which had concentrated on the suppression of the Abu Sayyaf terrorist group and communist rebels.

Last year, two missions under the umbrella of Balikatan 2012 were conducted in waters off Palawan province in the central Philippines which is close to the South China Sea, although officials of both countries stated those were not directed at China.

Maj. Gen. Virgilio Domingo, the Balikatan 2013 exercise director from the Philippine side, said officials for Balikatan 2014 will have to discuss whether similar drills will be held again in Palawan.

China for the first time participated Monday in a multinational maritime disaster response tabletop discussion under Balikatan 2013. Beijing's representative joined other delegates from Australia, Indonesia, Japan, Malaysia, New Zealand, Thailand, South Korea and Vietnam.

Hailing it as an accomplishment by itself, China's participation was also regarded by Robling as "very significant" not only in showing the transparency of Balikatan, but also toward the objective of making China a "better partner in the future" in the aspect of humanitarian assistance and disaster response.

"Humanitarian affairs and disaster relief operations -- there is no one country that has domain over that. We need every country in the region to be able to hold together and help countries in need," Robling said.

In his formal remarks at Wednesday's closing ceremony, Robling said Balikatan 2013, which opened April 5, not only strengthened the Philippines and U.S. forces' combined ability to defend each other, but it also "improved the multinational military and civilian disaster response coordination in Southeast Asia and throughout the region."

"We continue to share our long-standing relationship that has contributed to the regional security and stability, one deeply rooted in the Balikatan spirit of cooperation," he said.

Even with the fresh threats from North Korea, Balikatan proved to be an opportunity for the Philippines and the United States to ensure their "operational readiness" against "any emergency that both our countries may face," Domingo added.

"For whatever assistance the United States may require, or we may require from them, I guess, this Balikatan exercise is a test of how we can work together, shoulder to shoulder," he said.

Officials of both countries, meanwhile, expressed interest in eventually expanding Balikatan in the future to include other countries such as Australia and Japan.

Domingo said Australia's participation, for example, "will improve and broaden the perspective of the joint and combined exercises," noting its own unique capabilities.

Some 8,000 American and Philippine troops participated in Balikatan 2013, which also included engineering and humanitarian projects, and with the United States sending C-130s, F-18 Hornets and MV-22 Ospreys.

==Kyodo

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## shuttler

Bob Ong said:


> and you think you are so special that China won't mess with you? FYI they are already in your Johnson Reef.



just because we have more respect for Malaysia than the vietcong and the Philippines (under the present aquino government).



> Vietnam, which is a much more capable country than Malaysia got their cables cut-off by Chinese vessels. It won't be long until China starts harassing you or any country because they virtually claim the entire South China Sea as theirs, no exception.



Malaysians are more reasonable people. They can talk.

vietcongs and aquino are stupid rogue privates who cant do jack except pulling thier dad's legs for help!



Bob Ong said:


> *PH, U.S. military aim for territorial defense force*
> 
> By Ronron Calunsod, Kyodo News
> 
> Posted at 04/17/2013
> 
> *MANILA - The Philippines and U.S. military are considering the development of a force capable of handling the Philippines' strategic interest in the South China Sea, a high-ranking U.S. military official said Wednesday.* .................
> Some 8,000 American and Philippine troops participated in Balikatan 2013, which also included engineering and humanitarian projects, and with the United States sending C-130s, F-18 Hornets and MV-22 Osprey
> 
> ==Kyodo



excellent move

bring the yankies in let them exhaust themselves to the brink training one of the weakest forces of the world.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## USAHawk785

shuttler said:


> just because we have more respect for Malaysia than the vietcong and the Philippines (under the present aquino government).
> 
> 
> 
> Malaysians are more reasonable people. They can talk.
> 
> vietcongs and aquino are stupid rogue privates who cant do jack except pulling thier dad's legs for help!
> 
> 
> 
> excellent move
> 
> bring the yankies in let them exhaust themselves to the brink training one of the weakest forces of the world.



Its part of American strategic calculus, the Philippines' warm relationship with us will eventually lead to carrier battle group operations with our Filipino friends. There are 6 carrier battle groups in the Asia-Pacific Region, the Philippines and the regions around it is of strategic importance. 

Our presence in and around the Philippines' and their territorial waters will increase over time. Who will dare touch Philippines when the Hyperpower is there? lol.



Bob Ong said:


> and you think you are so special that China won't mess with you? FYI they are already in your Johnson Reef.
> 
> Vietnam, which is a much more capable country than Malaysia got their cables cut-off by Chinese vessels. It won't be long until China starts harassing you or any country because they virtually claim the entire South China Sea as theirs, no exception.



Who really deals with Malaysia? She is of no strategic importance to any country. She is flanked with Thailand to the north, Singapore to her center, and the giant Indonesia to her south. A shrimp among whales.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## jhungary

USAHawk785 said:


> Its part of American strategic calculus, the Philippines' warm relationship with us will eventually lead to carrier battle group operations with our Filipino friends. There are 6 carrier battle groups in the Asia-Pacific Region, the Philippines and the regions around it is of strategic importance.
> 
> Our presence in and around the Philippines' and their territorial waters will increase over time. Who will dare touch Philippines when the Hyperpower is there? lol.
> 
> Who really deals with Malaysia? She is of no strategic importance to any country. She is flanked with Thailand to the north, Singapore to her center, and the giant Indonesia to her south. A shrimp among whales.



Well, the Actual Chinese leadership is not as incompetent like some of the Member here. They would think twice before loading off American into a dispute that not really our cup of teas. 

The problem is China current have no power against the US in the Pacific. At best they can only rage a limited campaign inside their side of South China Sea. They would still trump the Vietnamese, Philippine or Any other country on the vicinity even with US help. However, things will not be the same if they are to face American in American ships

Chinese leadership is playing the right card at the moment. They let the whole things stew, not too engage and not too coarse. The fact is this, they would have a better chance now and without dragging the American in. Once we are in, the whole game will need to rewrite.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Sasquatch

Lets get back on topic now.


----------



## Bob Ong

shuttler said:


> just because we have more respect for Malaysia than the vietcong and the Philippines (under the present aquino government).
> 
> 
> 
> Malaysians are more reasonable people. They can talk.
> 
> vietcongs and aquino are stupid rogue privates who cant do jack except pulling thier dad's legs for help!
> 
> 
> 
> excellent move
> 
> bring the yankies in let them exhaust themselves to the brink training one of the weakest forces of the world.


Of course China would try to appeal to Malaysia, which 25% of their population is Chinese, to side with them as a classic 'divide and conquer' tactic. China will become more involved in race relations in Malaysia and may even use anti-Chinese riots as a pretext to invade in order to protect Chinese people. 

On the other hand the Philippines will not agree on bilateral talks with China, as we all know how your country can stealthily work an upper hand by intimidation, misrepresentation, and all sorts of bullying tactics to press its preposterous illusion of sovereignty over these territorial waters. Let the UNCLOS take its course over the matter and the US consistent backing is no less timely and highly important.


----------



## Bob Ong

*Time &#8216;ripe&#8217; for Asean, China code of conduct &#8212; Phl*
(The Philippine Star) | Updated April 18, 2013







MANILA, Philippines - The time is &#8220;ripe&#8221; for the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) and China to have a legally binding code of conduct to prevent occupation of disputed and non-disputed areas in West Philippine Sea and Panatag Shoal.

In a press briefing at Malacañang, Foreign Affairs spokesman Raul Hernandez said &#8220;China has said that they will only discuss this with ASEAN when the time is ripe.&#8221;

&#8220;We are hoping that the time is ripe now for such discussion because this actually would be very good for the region, and will put peace and stability and freedom of navigation in the area that we are talking about,&#8221; Hernandez said.

He announced that President Aquino would attend the 22nd ASEAN leaders&#8217; summit in Bandar Seri Begawan, Brunei on April 24 and 25.

The summit&#8217;s theme for this year is &#8220;Our People, Our Future Together,&#8221; emphasizing the importance of ASEAN citizens in realizing the vision of an ASEAN community by 2015.

&#8220;As to the DOC (Declaration on the Code of Conduct in the South China Sea), I think there is really a need to implement that because some of the provisions that were laid out in that document have not been fully implemented,&#8221; Hernandez said.

&#8220;We are talking about provisions like not inhabiting islands in the West Philippine Sea, which some countries have newly inhabited. So those are the things that have to be discussed and decisions have to be made for the full implementation of the DOC,&#8221; he said.

Hernandez cited the intrusions in the Bajo de Masinloc (Panatag or Scarborough Shoal) by the Chinese.

&#8220;That should not be the case. That is a violation of the provisions of the DOC. What we need to do is to be able to implement those provisions to the full so that peace and stability in the region can be undertaken.&#8221;

He said the Philippines would continue to advocate maritime security and cooperation, push for the full and effective implementation of the DOC as well as the early conclusion of a substantive and legally binding code of conduct, and review the ASEAN Charter to streamline the work and meetings of ASEAN.

Hernandez said they are hopeful that negotiations on the code of conduct would start soon for the interest of all parties concerned.

&#8220;I think ASEAN is ready to push this with China so that a substantive and legally binding Code of Conduct would be crafted as soon as possible,&#8221; Hernandez said.

Chinese occupation of the Panatag Shoal started on April 10, 2012, when surveillance vessels from Beijing barred the Philippine Navy from arresting Chinese poachers who had illegally harvested endangered marine species in the shoal.

Three Chinese vessels have remained in Panatag (Scarborough) Shoal over a year after Beijing intruded into the Philippine-owned area.

Philippine officials want the Panatag incident tackled in ASEAN and included in the documents of the regional grouping because it is within the country&#8217;s exclusive economic zone and has not been considered a disputed area until the Chinese adopted a nine-dash-line policy, claiming the whole of the West Philippine Sea and encroaching on other countries&#8217; territories.

Hernandez said it is up to ASEAN senior ministers to come up with an agreement on the code of conduct that would be shown and discussed with the Chinese.

*No effect on UN case*

Hernandez said the Philippine efforts to have a legally binding code of conduct would not affect arbitral proceedings it initiated against China under the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) to clarify its maritime entitlements in the West Philippine Sea. &#8211; Aurea Calica, Jaime Laude

&#8220;We brought China to an arbitral tribunal last Jan. 22nd to challenge China&#8217;s excessive claim &#8211; which they call the &#8216;nine-dash line&#8217; &#8211; which, for us, is not only excessive but something that is contrary to international law, specifically the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea.&#8221;

&#8220;We were able to appoint our judge and, about several weeks ago, the president of ITLOS (International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea) was also able to appoint another judge for the panel. &#8211; Aurea Calica, Jaime Laude

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## shuttler

USAHawk785 said:


> Its part of American strategic calculus, the Philippines' warm relationship with us will eventually lead to carrier battle group operations with our Filipino friends. There are 6 carrier battle groups in the Asia-Pacific Region, the Philippines and the regions around it is of strategic importance.



6 carrier battle groups. wow I think you are going to have more than 10 CBGs. You should build more to bankrupt your treasury and make the green backs cheaper than the cheapest toilet paper

sinking just one us cvn is costing the us taxpayers 10 billion dollars (may be less for the rusty rudders), but it is all value for money for our missiles



> Our presence in and around the Philippines' and their territorial waters will increase over time. Who will dare touch Philippines when the Hyperpower is there? lol.



we dont want to touch the philippines. we just want the us hawks to stick their rusty guns within their pants



> Who really deals with Malaysia? She is of no strategic importance to any country. She is flanked with Thailand to the north, Singapore to her center, and the giant Indonesia to her south. A shrimp among whales.



which are the whales - the ones that end up as delicious sushi on the japanese munchers dinner table?

PS: nice pic of a Filipino nurse in a us (?) clinic

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## shuttler

jhungary said:


> Well, the Actual Chinese leadership is not as incompetent like some of the Member here. They would think twice before loading off American into a dispute that not really our cup of teas.



what is "loading off" 
who is carrying the load in the first place
you wrote: "the Actual Chinese leadership is not as incompetent like some of the Member here" - I correct it as"
" the us politicians are hawkishly incompetent and in any case are not as foolish as many of the non-Chinese flagged trolls here".



> The problem is China current have no power against the US in the Pacific.



Once in a million times your are correct in delineating the S China Sea from the Pacific



> At best they can only rage a limited campaign inside their side of South China Sea


. 

haha "campaign" are we going for a 'blood donation campaign"!




> They would still trump the Vietnamese, Philippine or Any other country on the vicinity even with US help. However, things will not be the same if they are to face American in American ships



beautiful english "face American in American ships" what a great comedy line!



> Chinese leadership is playing the right card at the moment. They let the whole things stew, not too engage and not too coarse.



what is "not too engage and not to coarse?" - your "HKenglish" never fail to supply new meanings to modern english



> The fact is this, they would have a better chance now and without dragging the American in. Once we are in, the whole game will need to rewrite.



who is "we" - HK, China, Sweden, uk, usa, or elsewhere?

did the americans say they have never left the Pacific? what do you mean "not dragging them in"? do you see them having military drills around the clock in the Pacific making provocations?


----------



## shuttler

Bob Ong said:


> Of course China would try to appeal to Malaysia, which 25% of their population is Chinese, to side with them as a classic 'divide and conquer' tactic. China will become more involved in race relations in Malaysia and may even use anti-Chinese riots as a pretext to invade in order to protect Chinese people.



that is you illusion. the americans and the west have been exercising the 'divide and conquer" rule in Asia and everywhere - live and sound



> On the other hand the Philippines will not agree on bilateral talks with China, as we all know how your country can stealthily work an upper hand by intimidation, misrepresentation, and all sorts of bullying tactics to press its preposterous illusion of sovereignty over these territorial waters. Let the UNCLOS take its course over the matter and the US consistent backing is no less timely and highly important.



UNCLO can do no jack to the territorial affairs

We are not bullying anyone. And you have to stop bullying our fishermen captured under your infringement of territorial rights pretext.

We have our methods of claiming the territories back. All your accusations are irrelevant however!



Bob Ong said:


> *Time &#8216;ripe&#8217; for Asean, China code of conduct &#8212; Phl*
> (The Philippine Star) | Updated April 18, 2013
> 
> MANILA, Philippines - The time is &#8220;ripe&#8221; for the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) ....was also able to appoint



OMG is this a pic of our Diaoyu Islands?






What do our Diaoyu Islands have to do with ASEAN and the philippines?

I will suggest your government to save the energy and concentrate on your internal problems

No-one with the exception of cheerleading americans, indians, some HK righwingers and a few english-literate vietnamese will read it.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## jhungary

shuttler said:


> what is "loading off"
> who is carrying the load in the first place
> you wrote: "the Actual Chinese leadership is not as incompetent like some of the Member here" - I correct it as"
> " the us politicians are hawkishly incompetent and in any case are not as foolish as many of the non-Chinese flagged trolls here".
> 
> Once in a million times your are correct in delineating the S China Sea from the Pacific.
> 
> haha "campaign" are we going for a 'blood donation campaign"!
> 
> beautiful english "face American in American ships" what a great comedy line!
> 
> what is "not too engage and not to coarse?" - your "HKenglish" never fail to supply new meanings to modern english
> 
> who is "we" - HK, China, Sweden, uk, usa, or elsewhere?
> 
> did the americans say they have never left the Pacific? what do you mean "not dragging them in"? do you see them having military drills around the clock in the Pacific making provocations?



Your stupidity never stopped to amaze me. Ok, I will mate you in three now.



> what is "loading off"
> who is carrying the load in the first place
> you wrote: "the Actual Chinese leadership is not as incompetent like some of the Member here" - I correct it as"
> " the us politicians are hawkishly incompetent and in any case are not as foolish as many of the non-Chinese flagged trolls here".



Loading off = Pissing off, a slang that come from the phase "Take a load off", but I guess not-even-High-School-Standard Chinese will not know this. Fair Enough

By the way, that would be the worse grammar I have ever seen, even during the time I teach ESL in the local learning annex.

But then what's the point?? If I correct you, then you will start to write proper, what's the fun with it then?? 



> Once in a million times your are correct in delineating the S China Sea from the Pacific



Only once in a millions? Com'on, you can do better than that eh?



> haha "campaign" are we going for a 'blood donation campaign"!



Honestly you guys will need it once you **** off with the wrong tail here. There will be Chinese blood flow among the SCS and paint the whole SCS red, and that day on, SCS have to be refer to as South Chinese Blood Sea. 

Make an effort now, before most Chinese was killed in the ensued conflict



> beautiful english "face American in American ships" what a great comedy line!



Well, because Chinese in Chinese ship is rubbish. And rubbish is ugly LMAFO



> what is "not too engage and not to coarse?" - your "HKenglish" never fail to supply new meanings to modern English



Dictionary is your friend when you have a low to no vocab base.



> who is "we" - HK, China, Sweden, uk, usa, or elsewhere?
> 
> did the americans say they have never left the Pacific? what do you mean "not dragging them in"? do you see them having military drills around the clock in the Pacific making provocations?



Lol we = we, no need to explain who we are talking about here, if you think you need to react to provocation, please do attack us, "we" will let you see what is war and what is provocation. 

And did you say you want to down our 10 billion $ CBG? Well, just do it, it may even be fun, maybe I will reenlist in the Navy just to kill your Fellow Chinese then LOL. But beware, the moment you sink our CBG, that is, if you manage to do it, that mean we are at war. Our remaining 5 CBG with a combine ship of 25 Ageis Destroyer, 7 Cruiser and 10 Frigate will fire 1000 Cruise missile toward you China land. As well as our allied in the Japan, Taiwan, South Korea and Philippine. I would think Vietnam would be more than gladly to punish you as well. So, by then, I hope you don't live in the eastern seaboard in China, as there will be inferno. LOL

I may re-enlist and join the US Navy, I would have fun killing those Chinese sailor.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## shuttler

jhungary said:


> Your stupidity never stopped to amaze me. Ok, I will mate you in three now.
> .....
> 
> I may re-enlist and join the US Navy, I would have fun killing those Chinese sailor.



my answers to your hk right wing nonsense here:

post no 113


----------



## jhungary

shuttler said:


> my answers to your trash here:
> 
> post no 113



lol One big moron cannot even copy and paste on the same thread

ARE YOU HAVING PROBLEM FOLLOWING SIMPLE INSTRUCTION??

It's maybe high time to visit your doctor again.

Let me quote matthew perry from Friends. 
*-OH MY GOD !!!!!*






how are you going to defend the SCS if you manage to copy and paste your reply on the wrong thread??

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Soryu

Chinese bla bla bla ... is best weapon of them ....


----------



## Viet

jhungary said:


> Your stupidity never stopped to amaze me. Ok, I will mate you in three now.
> 
> ...
> And did you say you want to down our 10 billion $ CBG? Well, just do it, it may even be fun, maybe I will reenlist in the Navy just to kill your Fellow Chinese then LOL. But beware, the moment you sink our CBG, that is, if you manage to do it, that mean we are at war. Our remaining 5 CBG with a combine ship of 25 Ageis Destroyer, 7 Cruiser and 10 Frigate will fire 1000 Cruise missile toward you China land. As well as our allied in the Japan, Taiwan, South Korea and Philippine.
> 
> I would think *Vietnam *would be more than gladly to punish you as well. So, by then, I hope you don't live in the eastern seaboard in China, as there will be inferno. LOL
> 
> I may re-enlist and join the US Navy, I would have fun killing those Chinese sailor.


I always enjoy reading your posts. Lol.
Sure, Vietnam welcomes when the Americans spank the Chinese.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## mahatir

shuttler said:


> Thank you! The Germans are doing great to their country. They are deeply remorseful of what they did in WW2. The usa are far from that level yet&#65281;
> 
> Peace is most important for any country to advance. Let us hope there is not going to be any war in Asia, esp in the Peninsula now where provocations from the usa and military rebuttals from Kim are going on like comedies everyday!



Actually I forgot that John Kerry became America's foreign minister , he is a cool dude more interested in Trade and Investment . I only blame the Japanese bastards for the current problems in Asia , ABE is the one who pushed Obama to announce his so called " Asia Pivot " but again you forgot that USA only cares about defending Israel so I do not expect much in Asia . 

Obama lived part of his childhood in Indonesia so that is why he is somehow interested in the region but once he leaves the next American president will return back to the usual American policies of protecting Israel and concentrating on the middle east thus leaving Asia . 

We Just can continue with out daily projects and continue economic integration between China and ASEAN .

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## mahatir

USAHawk785 said:


> Its part of American strategic calculus, the Philippines' warm relationship with us will eventually lead to carrier battle group operations with our Filipino friends. There are 6 carrier battle groups in the Asia-Pacific Region, the Philippines and the regions around it is of strategic importance.
> 
> Our presence in and around the Philippines' and their territorial waters will increase over time. Who will dare touch Philippines when the Hyperpower is there? lol.
> 
> 
> 
> Who really deals with Malaysia? She is of no strategic importance to any country. She is flanked with Thailand to the north, Singapore to her center, and the giant Indonesia to her south. A shrimp among whales.



Yeah right clown you forgot to add that Indonesia is one of the most Anti-American countries in southeast Asia , 95% of Indonesia are muslims and have been protesting yearly in front of the US embassy over the American genocide in Iraq . 

Singapore ? hahaha , 80% of singapore are ethnic chinese 
Thailand ? 15% of thailand are ethnic chinese and control the economy back there , the current prime minister is originally chinese and most thailand exports go to china . 

Listen clown no one in Asia is interested in confronting China , this is only a cheap game played by Japan to get the USA into this region but again you will gain nothing Just like how you did 40 years ago . 

USA should focus on defending Israel and the next American president will return to the " middle east pivot " lol .



Viet said:


> I always enjoy reading your posts. Lol.
> Sure, Vietnam welcomes when the Americans spank the Chinese.



China is driving vietnam into an arms race to get your bankrupt dickhead , you will be screwed without a bullet .

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## shuttler

mahatir said:


> Actually I forgot that John Kerry became America's foreign minister , he is a cool dude more interested in Trade and Investment . I only blame the Japanese bastards for the current problems in Asia , ABE is the one who pushed Obama to announce his so called " Asia Pivot " but again you forgot that USA only cares about defending Israel so I do not expect much in Asia .
> 
> Obama lived part of his childhood in Indonesia so that is why he is somehow interested in the region but once he leaves the next American president will return back to the usual American policies of protecting Israel and concentrating on the middle east thus leaving Asia .
> 
> We Just can continue with out daily projects and continue economic integration between China and ASEAN .



I agree. Kerry is a more matured and very experienced diplomat than the red-neck clinton.
He has gone through the hard combat times in the vietnam war and should have a lot of reflections over america's involvement which ended up another disaster. 

It is indeed a multipolar sphere and the relationships are so much interwined that the collapse of one power does not exactly give the gain to the other. 

During america's hardest times, we are still helping them finance their economy. If they are smart, they should know what do all these gestures mean; and dont forget N Korea!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## mahatir

shuttler said:


> I agree. Kerry is a more matured and very experienced diplomat than the red-neck clinton.
> He has gone through the hard combat times in the vietnam war and should have a lot of reflections over america's involvement which ended up another disaster.
> 
> It is indeed a multipolar sphere and the relationships are so much interwined that the collapse of one power does not exactly give the gain to the other.
> 
> During america's hardest times, we are still helping them finance their economy. If they are smart, they should know what do all these gestures mean; and dont forget N Korea!



To be even honest USA will not find a better friend than China , China is a country that does not export revolution or trying to enforce a certain ideology on others . 

The Americans already have their own problems with Arabs and Russians apart from their commitment in defending Israel so it does not make sense opening another front in Asia . 

The USA is also reducing its military spending over the next 10 years which pretty much explains that they will not really be involved in any issues concerning Asia , they are just sending out gestures to make their Japanese friends feel better. 

China should not give much attention to vietnam , they are no more than clowns , the main problem is Japan really , they are the ones pushing America into this issue . The Japanese are going crazy over the growing chinese influence in countries like malaysia , indonesia and thailand . 

I do not really like North Korea , I think if both koreas unite then the American influence in the korean peninsula would diminsh . I support one united Korea without any foreign forces including the American one. 

Have your heard of the RCEP its a supposedly calls for a big common market between ASEAN with China , Korea , india , Australia , japan and Newzealand it calls for deepening the trade between member states and eliminating tarrifs . 

Already China has a free Trade agreement with ASEAN and South korea only Australia and Newzealand that need to join in .

http://www.eastasiaforum.org/2012/08/27/asias-regional-comprehensive-economic-partnership/

Regional comprehensive economic partnership

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

USS Freedom Arrives in Singapore for First Rotational Deployment

Navy News Service

SINGAPORE, April 18, 2013 &#8211; The Navy's first littoral combat ship USS Freedom arrived here today, highlighting the next phase of the ship&#8217;s deployment to Southeast Asia.







"Freedom has met every milestone of this deployment on time and with the professionalism you would expect of U.S. Navy sailors," said Navy Cmdr. Timothy Wilke, USS Freedom&#8217;s commanding officer. "I'm proud of Freedom's accomplishments to date, but I'm also looking forward to putting the ship through its paces over the next several months while deployed more than 8,000 miles from homeport."
Announced at the 2011 Shangri-La Dialogue regional security conference here, Freedom's maiden overseas deployment began with a March 1 departure from its San Diego homeport. The first-in-class ship has since transited the Pacific Ocean, entered the 7th Fleet area of responsibility, and made port visits in Hawaii, Guam and, most recently, in Manila. Additional port visits will occur throughout the deployment.
As with other parts of this deployment, lessons learned from logistics and maintenance support during the transit and port visits will inform follow-on rotational deployments, as well as the overall littoral combat ship program, officials said.
Next month, Freedom will participate in the International Maritime Defence Exhibition and Conference here. In the following months, Freedom will join regional navies and other 7th Fleet units in select phases of exercises Cooperation Afloat Readiness and Training and Southeast Asia Cooperation and Training. Occurring throughout Southeast Asia, both exercises provide Freedom opportunities to train extensively with comparable-sized ships.
"We plan on spending most of our time here in Southeast Asia. This will be Freedom's neighborhood for the next eight months," Wilke said. "We are eager to get out and about, work with other regional navies and share best practices during exercises, port visits and maritime security operations."
Fast, agile, and mission-focused, littoral combat ship platforms are designed to employ modular mission packages that can be configured for three separate purposes: surface warfare, mine countermeasures, or anti-submarine warfare. Freedom will be initially manned by its "Gold" crew of 91 sailors, including mission package personnel and an aviation detachment to operate an embarked MH-60 helicopter.
Freedom will remain homeported in San Diego throughout this rotational deployment to Southeast Asia. Midway through the deployment, the ship&#8217;s "Blue" crew, commanded by Navy Cmdr. Patrick C. Thien, will take over.

Related Sites:
USS Freedom

Defense.gov News Article: USS Freedom Arrives in Singapore for First Rotational Deployment

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## jhungary

Viet said:


> I always enjoy reading your posts. Lol.
> Sure, Vietnam welcomes when the Americans spank the Chinese.



lol some people think they are at the top of the world, but in fact what he know about his perfect little world is not perceived as the same as what other people think. 

It's time for some member to wake up and smell the gunpowder


----------



## USAHawk785

USS Freedom. Beautiful beast.















USS Independence , flanked by the USS Freedom.



jhungary said:


> lol some people think they are at the top of the world, but in fact what he know about his perfect little world is not perceived as the same as what other people think.
> 
> It's time for some member to wake up and smell the gunpowder



The weak only have words. Mere pawns in the greater American strategic plan for the Asia-Pacific.


----------



## jhungary

USAHawk785 said:


> USS Freedom. Beautiful beast.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> USS Independence , flanked by the USS Freedom.
> 
> The weak only have words. Mere pawns in the greater American strategic plan for the Asia-Pacific.



The reason why China cannot be even measure up with the SU successes during the cold war is because Russia simply does not does it alone. Both US and Russia was big not because of how big it is within themselves or how many ship, army they have at any moment. But rather how many satellite states we both have during the cold war. 

A strong country made strong not by themselves but rather on how many country that are willing to support them. No country in this world can do it alone. China fail to see it, they simply closed up themselves for so long the only credible and truly friends state are North Korea. And it also look frisky at this moment. The situation in Asia, if continue on ahead without any change will only split Asia in part anti-China and part pro-china. and when you cannot even emerge from your own continent undisputed, how are you going to claim world number 1??

Soft power is the Achilles Heel on what stopping China to become great. Another part of the failure is their citizens are so satisfied with their government and did not demand and change for the positive.


----------



## longyi

LOL bunch of warmonging "experts" stroking each other with IOU tissue paper!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## USAHawk785

jhungary said:


> The reason why China cannot be even measure up with the SU successes during the cold war is because Russia simply does not does it alone. Both US and Russia was big not because of how big it is within themselves or how many ship, army they have at any moment. But rather how many satellite states we both have during the cold war.
> 
> A strong country made strong not by themselves but rather on how many country that are willing to support them. No country in this world can do it alone. China fail to see it, they simply closed up themselves for so long the only credible and truly friends state are North Korea. And it also look frisky at this moment. The situation in Asia, if continue on ahead without any change will only split Asia in part anti-China and part pro-china. and when you cannot even emerge from your own continent undisputed, how are you going to claim world number 1??
> 
> Soft power is the Achilles Heel on what stopping China to become great. Another part of the failure is their citizens are so satisfied with their government and did not demand and change for the positive.




Good analysis, I would also like to add that our military and naval presence in Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, the Philippines, Singapore, Thailand, Australia and New Zealand in addition to our naval presence in Guam solidifies our practically unchallenged hegemony over Asia-Pacific. 

The Chinese Governments' headstrong territorial claims , which have led to excitement in Japan and the Philippines, only plays to our favor. The United States will utilize this opportunity to support our strategic partners in the region as pretext to champion our hegemony and preserve it.

The problem with the Chinese is their historical claims , and their historical relations with their irritated neighbours. Its quite interesting to see how much hate there is between some Chinese posters against their Vietnamese neighbors. Such unprecedented hatred between Asian peoples.

As the saying goes, Divide and Conquer.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## jhungary

USAHawk785 said:


> Good analysis, I would also like to add that our military and naval presence in Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, the Philippines, Singapore, Thailand, Australia and New Zealand in addition to our naval presence in Guam solidifies our practically unchallenged hegemony over Asia-Pacific.
> 
> The Chinese Governments' headstrong territorial claims , which have led to excitement in Japan and the Philippines, only plays to our favor. The United States will utilize this opportunity to support our strategic partners in the region as pretext to champion our hegemony and preserve it.
> 
> The problem with the Chinese is their historical claims , and their historical relations with their irritated neighbours. Its quite interesting to see how much hate there is between some Chinese posters against their Vietnamese neighbors. Such unprecedented hatred between Asian peoples.
> 
> As the saying goes, Divide and Conquer.



There are ways, and there are WAYS, to solve any problem. Until I see a day that Chinese start an military organisation like NATO but flushed with Chinese allies. China cannot afford to talk strong. Unlike North Korea....

Indeed China always behind the three no principle. No Force, No Outside interdiction and No Engagement. Which consider all the Chinese member here, which is a sane and correct response with a big country like China.

Chinese leadership is not stupid, they have a good thing going with their economy, why they need to throw away their luxury car and their PS3 and let squat around the SCS fighting?? They are not stupid you know...


----------



## p3avi8tor69

Zero_wing said:


> Sure sure and your the great and powerful harry potter fighting the one who can not be named! hahahahaha!  just admit it already! your just other stinky old CH&ck here to dirty the topic nothing more why can't you people use your own flags?



I noticed you changed you changed your flag to the American flag. Now who is the false flagger huh? Or do you now want to be known an American? My flag has always been what it was since day one, unlike you who switches flags.

BTW I have noticed you have consistently included racial insults like "*stinky old CH&ck*". Does your racial insults give you a rise? If so, then you really are a lost soul.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## USAHawk785

jhungary said:


> There are ways, and there are WAYS, to solve any problem. Until I see a day that Chinese start an military organisation like NATO but flushed with Chinese allies. China cannot afford to talk strong. Unlike North Korea....
> 
> Indeed China always behind the three no principle. No Force, No Outside interdiction and No Engagement. Which consider all the Chinese member here, which is a sane and correct response with a big country like China.
> 
> Chinese leadership is not stupid, they have a good thing going with their economy, why they need to throw away their luxury car and their PS3 and let squat around the SCS fighting?? They are not stupid you know...



But of course...


----------



## Fsjal

p3avi8tor69 said:


> I noticed you changed you changed your flag to the American flag. Now who is the false flagger huh? Or do you now want to be known an American? My flag has always been what it was since day one, unlike you who switches flags.
> 
> BTW I have noticed you have consistently included racial insults like "*stinky old CH&ck*". Does your racial insults give you a rise? If so, then you really are a lost soul.



He is ashamed of being Filipino. He also thinks he's inferior.
--------
http://www.eurasiareview.com/18042013-china-consolidates-claim-in-south-china-sea-analysis/

It has barely been a month since the 12th National People&#8217;s Congress ended, with new appointees to various ministries and committees in the State Council. While one would have expected the new dispensation to settle down, one area that has seen plenty of activity, albeit unobtrusive, is the South China Sea. In 2012, China upped the ante on all fronts on issue. Diplomatically, it stalled the &#8220;Code of Conduct&#8221; at the 20th ASEAN Summit in Phnom Penh; politically, it declared the South China Sea as a &#8220;core national interest&#8221; and &#8220;non-negotiable&#8221;; and militarily, it raised a new military garrison on Yongking island with a mandate to administer and control over 200 islets, sand banks and reefs in the Xisha, Nansha and Zhongsha islands, and over 2 million square kilometers of waters within the &#8220;nine dash line&#8221; of the South China Sea.


----------



## ManilaBoy45

China Keeps Probing

Philippines: Chinese Vessels Remains Stationed at Scarborough Shoal

April 10, 2013: China continues to maintain patrol boats at the Filipino Scarborough Shoal in violation of a deal made last June. Not only did Chinese patrol boats soon return to Scarborough Shoal but Chinese fishing boats are again operating there and even erected a flimsy barrier (with rowboats, rope, and fishing nets) across the entrance to the lagoon and dared Filipino fishing boats to cross it. Scarborough Shoal is in waters the Philippines claim (according to international law). 

The shoal is only 250 kilometers from the Philippines and 1,200 kilometers from China. Despite this, China claims ownership of Scarborough Shoal but has not yet used deadly force to assert that claim. What China is apparently doing is sending patrol boats from their fishery protection service to protect their fishermen. According to China, they are in compliance with the June deal, as they never agreed that Chinese fishing boats could not operate around Scarborough Shoal. The Philippines does not agree but has refrained from sending warships to the shoal and chasing the Chinese fishing boats away.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

mahatir said:


> Yeah right clown you forgot to add that Indonesia is one of the most Anti-American countries in southeast Asia , 95% of Indonesia are muslims and have been protesting yearly in front of the US embassy over the American genocide in Iraq .
> 
> Singapore ? hahaha , 80% of singapore are ethnic chinese
> Thailand ? 15% of thailand are ethnic chinese and control the economy back there , the current prime minister is originally chinese and most thailand exports go to china .
> 
> Listen clown no one in Asia is interested in confronting China , this is only a cheap game played by Japan to get the USA into this region but again you will gain nothing Just like how you did 40 years ago .
> 
> USA should focus on defending Israel and the next American president will return to the " middle east pivot " lol .
> 
> China is driving *vietnam *into an arms race to get your bankrupt dickhead , you will be screwed without a bullet .


You are such an idiot. China is the one who creates tension among its neighbors. Its aim is clear: hegemony in East and South East Asia. As for VN, we need more cooperations and supports from ASEAN, as well as from Japan, America and Russia. The stronger is Vietnam, the better it is for all.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## mahatir

USAHawk785 said:


> Good analysis, I would also like to add that our military and naval presence in Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, the Philippines, Singapore, Thailand, Australia and New Zealand in addition to our naval presence in Guam solidifies our practically unchallenged hegemony over Asia-Pacific.
> 
> The Chinese Governments' headstrong territorial claims , which have led to excitement in Japan and the Philippines, only plays to our favor. The United States will utilize this opportunity to support our strategic partners in the region as pretext to champion our hegemony and preserve it.
> 
> The problem with the Chinese is their historical claims , and their historical relations with their irritated neighbours. Its quite interesting to see how much hate there is between some Chinese posters against their Vietnamese neighbors. Such unprecedented hatred between Asian peoples.
> 
> As the saying goes, Divide and Conquer.



what a clown



Viet said:


> You are such an idiot. China is the one who creates tension among its neighbors. Its aim is clear: hegemony in East and South East Asia. As for VN, we need more cooperations and supports from ASEAN, as well as from Japan, America and Russia. The stronger is Vietnam, the better it is for all.



China is driving you into bankruptcy stupid through an arm race , keep wasting money on military while your people continue escaping on boats to malaysia .

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## VietHome

China is dangerously aggressive in taking other people's lands. The country is a hungry beast that eats away other people's resources to satisfy its ever-growing expansionism. The only country in the world with border disputes with nearly all of its neighbors!! I don't believe for a second China "peaceful rise." They show their true color when people are not looking. Many Vietnamese died in 1988 to prove this fact. This is a Youtube video about that story. Caution: Graphic material. I have had to swallow my tears watching this.

go to youtube address /watch?v=NdZ3nZv9j8Q

Note: This is a video shot by Chinese propaganda machine, so it has been heavily edited and the commentary there is not to be trusted. The truth is, anticipating China's sneaky move to claim the island, Vietnam sent an unarmed landing craft and people over there first. China lost the competition and decided to use ship's cannon to shoot at Vietnamese soliders. Couldn't believe in their eyes that a "big, peaceful country" can act as such petty maniacal beast, these heroes died with their beloved flag wrapped around themselves. They died for their country, for one day the world will realize China's true nature.

The island name is &#272;á G&#7841;c Ma (Johnson South Reef). The date is 3/14/1988

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## selvan33

*East China Sea: China Says Japan Escalating Island Dispute By Scrambling Jets; China Urges Talks Over Disputed Islands*







China accused Japan on Thursday of ratcheting up maritime tensions by scrambling jets to monitor Chinese aircrafts that approach a group of disputed islands in the East China Sea.

The remarks from the Chinese foreign ministry followed a Japanese defense ministry statement on Wednesday that the number of scrambles against Chinese planes nearly doubled to 306 in the year that ended in March, Reuters news agency reported.

That accounted for an increase in the overall number from 425 to 567, the highest level in 22 years, Japan's defense ministry said.


Chinese foreign ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying said China remained resolute in defending its claim to the islands, but it wanted to reach a solution through dialogue and negotiation.

"We all know Japan has continuously provoked and escalated tensions over the Diaoyu," Hua Chunying was quoted as saying by the Associated Press news agency.

&#8220;What Japan needs to do is, not send more planes, but show sincerity and action and talk with China,&#8221; she added.

Beijing, in a defense white paper issued on Tuesday, had accused Japan of creating trouble by nationalizing the disputed islands.

&#8220;On the issues concerning China&#8217;s territorial sovereignty and maritime rights and interests, some neighboring countries are taking actions that complicate or exacerbate the situation, and Japan is making trouble over the issue of the Diaoyu Islands,&#8221; the Chinese government statement said.

Tokyo responded immediately by protesting the paper through diplomatic channels, repeating that there was no territorial dispute between the two countries because the islands were Japanese territory, Japan&#8217;s Kyodo news agency reported.

The dispute over the uninhabited islands, known as the Senkaku Islands in Japan and the Diaoyu Islands in China, escalated on Sept.11 last year, when the Japanese government announced the signing of a contract worth 2.05 billion yen ($26 million) to buy three of the five main islands from their private owner.

The islands, which lie some 200km (124 miles) off Japan's Okinawa island and beyond China's 200 nautical mile (370km) exclusive economic zone, are surrounded by an area rich in fisheries and are believed to contain significant hydrocarbon resources.

China has laid claim to the islands since the U.N. returned them to Japanese sovereignty in accordance with the Okinawa Reversion Agreement that ended the U.S. occupation of Okinawa. Despite the normalization of relations between China and Japan in 1972, repeated tussles involving fishing and patrol boats from China, Japan, Taiwan and Hong Kong have occurred in the past.
*East China Sea: China Says Japan Escalating Island Dispute By Scrambling Jets; China Urges Talks Over Disputed Islands*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## jhungary

selvan33 said:


> *East China Sea: China Says Japan Escalating Island Dispute By Scrambling Jets; China Urges Talks Over Disputed Islands*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China accused Japan on Thursday of ratcheting up maritime tensions by scrambling jets to monitor Chinese aircrafts that approach a group of disputed islands in the East China Sea.
> 
> The remarks from the Chinese foreign ministry followed a Japanese defense ministry statement on Wednesday that the number of scrambles against Chinese planes nearly doubled to 306 in the year that ended in March, Reuters news agency reported.
> 
> That accounted for an increase in the overall number from 425 to 567, the highest level in 22 years, Japan's defense ministry said.
> 
> 
> Chinese foreign ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying said China remained resolute in defending its claim to the islands, but it wanted to reach a solution through dialogue and negotiation.
> 
> "We all know Japan has continuously provoked and escalated tensions over the Diaoyu," Hua Chunying was quoted as saying by the Associated Press news agency.
> 
> &#8220;What Japan needs to do is, not send more planes, but show sincerity and action and talk with China,&#8221; she added.
> 
> Beijing, in a defense white paper issued on Tuesday, had accused Japan of creating trouble by nationalizing the disputed islands.
> 
> &#8220;On the issues concerning China&#8217;s territorial sovereignty and maritime rights and interests, some neighboring countries are taking actions that complicate or exacerbate the situation, and Japan is making trouble over the issue of the Diaoyu Islands,&#8221; the Chinese government statement said.
> 
> Tokyo responded immediately by protesting the paper through diplomatic channels, repeating that there was no territorial dispute between the two countries because the islands were Japanese territory, Japan&#8217;s Kyodo news agency reported.
> 
> The dispute over the uninhabited islands, known as the Senkaku Islands in Japan and the Diaoyu Islands in China, escalated on Sept.11 last year, when the Japanese government announced the signing of a contract worth 2.05 billion yen ($26 million) to buy three of the five main islands from their private owner.
> 
> The islands, which lie some 200km (124 miles) off Japan's Okinawa island and beyond China's 200 nautical mile (370km) exclusive economic zone, are surrounded by an area rich in fisheries and are believed to contain significant hydrocarbon resources.
> 
> China has laid claim to the islands since the U.N. returned them to Japanese sovereignty in accordance with the Okinawa Reversion Agreement that ended the U.S. occupation of Okinawa. Despite the normalization of relations between China and Japan in 1972, repeated tussles involving fishing and patrol boats from China, Japan, Taiwan and Hong Kong have occurred in the past.
> *East China Sea: China Says Japan Escalating Island Dispute By Scrambling Jets; China Urges Talks Over Disputed Islands*



Aren't this post misplaced??

Topic is South China Sea, not Senkaku


----------



## selvan33

jhungary said:


> Aren't this post misplaced??
> 
> Topic is South China Sea, not Senkaku



oops. am sorry.


----------



## Soryu

mahatir said:


> what a clown
> 
> China is driving you into bankruptcy stupid through an arm race , keep wasting money on military while your people continue escaping on boats to malaysia .


So you living in 198x time.... what old hag ....

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Malaya

VietHome said:


> China is dangerously aggressive in taking other people's lands. The country is a hungry beast that eats away other people's resources to satisfy its ever-growing expansionism. The only country in the world with border disputes with nearly all of its neighbors!! I don't believe for a second China "peaceful rise." They show their true color when people are not looking. Many Vietnamese died in 1988 to prove this fact. This is a Youtube video about that story. Caution: Graphic material. I have had to swallow my tears watching this.
> 
> go to youtube address /watch?v=NdZ3nZv9j8Q
> 
> Note: This is a video shot by Chinese propaganda machine, so it has been heavily edited and the commentary there is not to be trusted. The truth is, anticipating China's sneaky move to claim the island, Vietnam sent an unarmed landing craft and people over there first. China lost the competition and decided to use ship's cannon to shoot at Vietnamese soliders. Couldn't believe in their eyes that a "big, peaceful country" can act as such petty maniacal beast, these heroes died with their beloved flag wrapped around themselves. They died for their country, for one day the world will realize China's true nature.
> 
> The island name is &#272;á G&#7841;c Ma (Johnson South Reef). The date is 3/14/1988


China does not understand any civilized law, especially the ones crafted by the international countries. Though, they're predecessors signed the UNCLOS, unfortunately, the newbies in their politburo, do not understand what is all about. Pity on these Chinese, since they were inculcated since their childhood, that the only laws only to be followed are the only words spoken by their leaders.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Rechoice

mahatir said:


> what a clown
> 
> 
> 
> China is driving you into bankruptcy stupid through an arm race , keep wasting money on military while your people continue escaping on boats to malaysia .



Don't forget that Hua people escaped from mainland China to Phi, Malaysia, Indonesia, Singapore and South Vietnam in the past were Boat people. Same story was repeated 1978 from Vietnam, most of boat people were Hua.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

USAHawk785 said:


> Good analysis, I would also like to add that our military and naval presence in Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, the Philippines, Singapore, Thailand, Australia and New Zealand in addition to our naval presence in Guam solidifies our practically unchallenged hegemony over Asia-Pacific.
> 
> The *Chinese Governments' headstrong territorial claims* , which have led to excitement in Japan and the Philippines, only plays to our favor. The United States will utilize this opportunity to support our strategic partners in the region as pretext to champion our hegemony and preserve it.
> 
> The problem with the Chinese is their historical claims , and their historical relations with their irritated neighbours. Its quite interesting to see how much hate there is between some Chinese posters against their *Vietnamese *neighbors. Such unprecedented hatred between Asian peoples.
> 
> As the saying goes, Divide and Conquer.


My friend, actually Chinese love to bully the weak and kowtow to the mighty. The presence of America is necessary to stop any venture from China. The peace and prospertity in the Asia-Pacific region is too important. 

As Viet we are best informed about their attitude. China´s territorial claims base on fresh air.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ViXuyen

mahatir said:


> China is driving vietnam into an arms race to get your bankrupt dickhead , you will be screwed without a bullet .


malaysia should start worrying; you guys are a joke just like the Filipino a couple of years ago for kissing Chinese as s. The Chinese have returned the Flip a favor for kissing their as s by swallowing a shoal right next to the Phillipines. Believe me, you weak and pathetic malay are the next sheep in line for the Chinese. The Chinese in malaysia have already screwed you up by owning more than 50% of your economy and turning you native malay into 2nd class citizen right on your homeland Look at malaysia's 40 richest and anyone can tell, most of those 40 are Chinse, not your pathetic malay

Viet Nam only spends about $1 billon a year in arms purchase while the Chinese spend $100 billion a year but we control most of the Spratly; we won't ever go bankrupted so you can rest your mind

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## USAHawk785

5Star said:


> malaysia should start worrying; you guys are a joke just like the Filipino a couple of years ago for kissing Chinese as s. The Chinese have returned the Flip a favor for kissing their as s by swallowing a shoal right next to the Phillipines. Believe me, you weak and pathetic malay are the next sheep in line for the Chinese. The Chinese in malaysia have already screwed you up by owning more than 50% of your economy and turning you native malay into 2nd class citizen right on your homeland Look at malaysia's 40 richest and anyone can tell, most of those 40 are Chinse, not your pathetic malay
> 
> Viet Nam only spends about $1 billon a year in arms purchase while the Chinese spend $100 billion a year but we control most of the Spratly; we won't ever go bankrupted so you can rest your mind



No, the ethnic Malays have what African Americans of the United States have, a sense of entitlement. In Malaysia they call this 'Bumiputra', similar to the US' Affirmative Action policy. 

You're right tho, the Chinese minority controls the economy of Malaysia. The brown-skinned Malays of Malaysia merely hold military positions and or governmental positions. The economy is controlled by the Chinese. 

Malaysia also has a racist policy where the Indian Malaysians are considered bottom in the totem pole.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## USAHawk785

5Star said:


> malaysia should start worrying; you guys are a joke just like the Filipino a couple of years ago for kissing Chinese as s. The Chinese have returned the Flip a favor for kissing their as s by swallowing a shoal right next to the Phillipines. Believe me, you weak and pathetic malay are the next sheep in line for the Chinese. The Chinese in malaysia have already screwed you up by owning more than 50% of your economy and turning you native malay into 2nd class citizen right on your homeland Look at malaysia's 40 richest and anyone can tell, most of those 40 are Chinse, not your pathetic malay
> 
> Viet Nam only spends about $1 billon a year in arms purchase while the Chinese spend $100 billion a year but we control most of the Spratly; we won't ever go bankrupted so you can rest your mind



There is a striking dichotomy between Malaysia and the Philippines, tho. The Philippines cannot be touched, as it is a strategic and major Non-NATO ally of the United States. The US will never allow the Philippines to be touched by any other foreign power. 

As for Malaysia, she has no major ally to support her in a hypothetical war with China. She has no nuclear umbrella.


----------



## mahatir

USAHawk785 said:


> There is a striking dichotomy between Malaysia and the Philippines, tho. The Philippines cannot be touched, as it is a strategic and major Non-NATO ally of the United States. The US will never allow the Philippines to be touched by any other foreign power.
> 
> As for Malaysia, she has no major ally to support her in a hypothetical war with China. She has no nuclear umbrella.



We have 2 major Ally China and Indonesia , by the way we bombed the philippines border during the sabah conflict 2 month ago and killed over 100 philipinos what did the united states do ? nothing . 

The chinese Navy took over James Shoal and continuously passes into philipines waters what did your united states do ? nothing 

Your Nato is broken up clown , both Germany and France are against the united states and you really have no allies except britain who I would question their future commitment to any war. 

south korea is locked with north and if the north unites with south then they will turn against your ******* country , as for Japan its no more than a toothless *****



5Star said:


> malaysia should start worrying; you guys are a joke just like the Filipino a couple of years ago for kissing Chinese as s. The Chinese have returned the Flip a favor for kissing their as s by swallowing a shoal right next to the Phillipines. Believe me, you weak and pathetic malay are the next sheep in line for the Chinese. The Chinese in malaysia have already screwed you up by owning more than 50% of your economy and turning you native malay into 2nd class citizen right on your homeland Look at malaysia's 40 richest and anyone can tell, most of those 40 are Chinse, not your pathetic malay
> 
> Viet Nam only spends about $1 billon a year in arms purchase while the Chinese spend $100 billion a year but we control most of the Spratly; we won't ever go bankrupted so you can rest your mind



LOL you will be Isolated in Asean vietcong thailand , indonesia and malaysia all against your ****** country , as for philippines we no they are nothing better than being maids in our country. 

Malaysia economy is triple vietnam's economy yet we have 1/4 your populations, show how " strong " your country is clown .

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## mahatir

USAHawk785 said:


> No, the ethnic Malays have what African Americans of the United States have, a sense of entitlement. In Malaysia they call this 'Bumiputra', similar to the US' Affirmative Action policy.
> 
> You're right tho, the Chinese minority controls the economy of Malaysia. The brown-skinned Malays of Malaysia merely hold military positions and or governmental positions. The economy is controlled by the Chinese.
> 
> Malaysia also has a racist policy where the Indian Malaysians are considered bottom in the totem pole.



China limited the philippines access to James shoal for over a year now , we have not seen any move from USA . 

Malaysia is a key to the south east china conflict , from Malaysia China could easily siege vietnam in an event of war . 

Remember clown there is a conflict between Vietnam and Thailand and they would love to crush vietnam if it becomes vulnerable both countries had a war before . 

Philippines has its own conflict with Indonesia again another key country in the region and already in alliance with China. 

you forgot to add Russia , another country that is allied to China , Putin's first official visit was to China and China's first official visit was to Russia . 

The USA will be alone in this one , I advice you to get the **** out , you have no beef in this region and your Foreign Minister Kerry understood this, he is a wise man .

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zero_wing

We Have what with Indonesia? man are ok?


----------



## HongWu

China spanked Philippines and Japan and grabbed control over disputed islands. Still waiting for American response.


----------



## mahatir

Zero_wing said:


> We Have what with Indonesia? man are ok?



Both China and Indonesia are building major ports in Indonesia for dual purpose naval&civilian 

Pelindo II to build 3 new ports within 2 years | The Jakarta Post

China is also helping Indonesia with producing " Anti-shipping " missile 

Indonesia, China to Sign Missile Production Agreement

Why do you think Indonesia would Choose China in producing Naval missiles ? it clearly shows where Indonesia stands , they choose to be neutral on the surface but also militarly working with China. 

Indonesia has given the PLA navy permission to use Indonesian waters to spy and monitor the philippines . 

At the end both Indonesia and Malaysia are muslim countries and they understand that the so called " Asia pivot " is not about china but rather attacking Muslims living in Indonesia and Malaysia , it is understandable why both countries are supporting china 

A strong China will ensure the Independence of Malaysia and Indonesia from the threats of Christian aggression lead by philippines and the west. 

Indonesians have watched on TV what happened to Muslims in the middle east at the hands of Americans , they are have their reasons in supporting China and the one china policy .



HongWu said:


> China spanked Philippines and Japan and grabbed control over disputed islands. Still waiting for American response.



Excellent , A strong China is needed for an Independent Asia from foreign influence .

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

@mahatir 

are you a Malay or just a Chinese clown? My guess is if China continues to bully Malaysia, then the day is not far, when the Malays kick all Chinese a@@ out of the country.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## mahatir

Viet said:


> @mahatir
> 
> are you a Malay or just a Chinese clown? My guess is if China continues to bully Malaysia, then the day is not far, when the Malays kick all Chinese a@@ out of the country.



LOL Clown Chinese lived here for more than 1000 years and China never bullied Mayalisa , instead China helped Malaysia develop and prosper . The ruling party in Malaysia is composed of a Coalition of Malays and Chinese . 

We are here talking about saving Asia from foreign occupation and the only Country capable of stopping Foreign interference is China along with its friends in Malaysia and Indonesia . 

China , Malaysia and Indonesia together have a population of 1.6 billion people and all our three countries are rich in resources and have well educated population , our economies combined cross 10 trillion dollars and its expected after 10 years China will have the largest Economy and Indonesia will be the 8th largest Economy. 

We are creating a new global order in Asia that is self sufficient and independent from Foreign influence , if Vietnam wants to be an American ***** like Japan , then that is your choice .

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## HongWu

jhungary said:


> And did you say you want to down our 10 billion $ CBG? Well, just do it, it may even be fun, maybe I will reenlist in the Navy just to kill your Fellow Chinese then LOL. But beware, the moment you sink our CBG, that is, if you manage to do it, that mean we are at war. Our remaining 5 CBG with a combine ship of 25 Ageis Destroyer, 7 Cruiser and 10 Frigate will fire 1000 Cruise missile toward you China land. As well as our allied in the Japan, Taiwan, South Korea and Philippines would think Vietnam would be more than gladly to punish you as well. So, by then, I hope you don't live in the eastern seaboard in China, as there will be inferno. LOL
> 
> I may re-enlist and join the US Navy, I would have fun killing those Chinese sailor.


You are nothing but a half Vietnamese American. We Chinese slaughtered Americans in Korea and Vietnamese in numerous border wars. This time our ICBM can vaporize all US cities with over a hundred thousand population


----------



## mahatir

HongWu said:


> You are nothing but a half Vietnamese American. We Chinese slaughtered Americans in Korea and Vietnamese in numerous border wars. This time our ICBM can vaporize all US cities with over a hundred thousand population



I was even suggesting replacing Vietnam and Philippines with China in ASEAN , it would give the organization a great boast and power if China Joined .


----------



## Soryu

mahatir said:


> LOL you will be Isolated in Asean vietcong thailand , indonesia and malaysia all against your ****** country , as for philippines we no they are nothing better than being maids in our country.
> 
> Malaysia economy is triple vietnam's economy yet we have 1/4 your populations, show how " strong " your country is clown .


Isolated by What and for what!? LOL, kneeling at before China and slew your tail, and you think China will become your ally!?

Lol, You should learn from Philippines, unless Malay given enough benefits for China, just wet dream to think you can share same place on SCS.

Compared to economy size was show how idiot you are. Vietnam economic just rise up from 1990, no strange when we still lag behind some nation in region.



mahatir said:


> I was even suggesting replacing Vietnam and Philippines with China in ASEAN , it would give the organization a great boast and power if China Joined .


Well, good suggesting. Do it, please. And you can turning your tail when Chinese made a voice: tsk tsk tsk ....


----------



## mahatir

Soryu said:


> Isolated by What and for what!? LOL, kneeling at before China and slew your tail, and you think China will become your ally!?
> 
> Lol, You should learn from Philippines, unless Malay given enough benefits for China, just wet dream to think you can share same place on SCS.
> 
> Compared to economy size was show how idiot you are. Vietnam economic just rise up from 1990, no strange when we still lag behind some nation in region.



Malaysia was under occupation until 1963 and after that the country was subject to american bullying for 10 years until mahatir ruled and developed the country in the 1985 , so pretty much started like vietnam to . 

As I told you we know China for more than 1000 years , the Chinese lived in malaysia for more than 1000 years , its their country Just like how its the malay's country . 

You are completely brainwashed , China has opened its markets for Malaysian companies and now it is our largest export destination . The Chinese public banks have given billions of low interest loans to help malaysia in developing its infastructure. 

As I told you Indonesia , Malaysia and China have a common interest in reducing foreign influence in Asia as the 3 countries in the past suffered from Western and Japanese Imperialism . 

If you want to be a slave to the white man then that is your problem not mine .

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## HongWu

mahatir said:


> I was even suggesting replacing Vietnam and Philippines with China in ASEAN , it would give the organization a great boast and power if China Joined .


Yes SE Asians know Vietnamese think they are the king of SE Asia. But in reality they are poor and delusional. Philippines has been licking Westerners for too long they think they are Western.


----------



## Soryu

mahatir said:


> Malaysia was under occupation until 1963 and after that the country was subject to american bullying for 10 years until mahatir ruled and developed the country in the 1985 , so pretty much started like vietnam to .
> 
> As I told you we know China for more than 1000 years , the Chinese lived in malaysia for more than 1000 years , its their country Just like how its the malay's country .
> 
> You are completely brainwashed , China has opened its markets for Malaysian companies and now it is our largest export destination . The Chinese public banks have given billions of low interest loans to help malaysia in developing its infastructure.
> 
> As I told you Indonesia , Malaysia and China have a common interest in reducing foreign influence in Asia as the 3 countries in the past suffered from Western and Japanese Imperialism .
> 
> If you want to be a slave to the white man then that is your problem not mine .


If you want to be a slave, so just turning your tail and dreaming.

Chinese was lived in Vietnam even longer in over 2000 year, so I consider we know Chinese better than you!? We lived and fight to each other and know many things about both side.
So stop your bullshjt when you think you know chinese more than us. 
When Vietnamese said "fighting to the end of independence", Chinese said "stop, American very strong, just wait for more, more, and more..." (just like how divived Korean, and China will hold North Korea in poor, isolated in their arm).

And I will remind you: Who was kneel at before America in 1972 and strike at Vietnamese's back!? At the end of 1972, USA was bombard like mad on North Vietnam.... lol.

Chinese give you some pieces and you think them like a God.


----------



## mahatir

HongWu said:


> Yes SE Asians know Vietnamese think they are the king of SE Asia. But in reality they are poor and delusional. Philippines has been licking Westerners for too long they think they are Western.



The USA itself has been secretly negotiating with China in unifying Korea in return for withdrawing from the whole region . The Vietcongs are dumb to believe that America will save them in an event of war with China . The vietcongs do not understand that it was China that saved them from USA . 

I know China is a patient country and looks for long term goals , this is just a matter of time and already USA is reducing its military budget , in a settlement agreement between both sides the USA will sell both Vietnam and Phillipines . 

Vietnam is only digging its own grave with its current behaviour , no one in SE Asia like Vietnam's foreign policy , they always had problems with Thailand , Cambodia and Malaysia .

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## mahatir

Soryu said:


> If you want to be a slave, so just turning your tail and dreaming.
> 
> Chinese was lived in Vietnam even longer in over 2000 year, so I consider we know Chinese better than you!? We lived and fight to each other and know many things about both side.
> So stop your bullshjt when you think you know chinese more than us.
> When Vietnamese said "fighting to the end of independence", Chinese said "stop, American very strong, just wait for more, more, and more..." (just like how divived Korean, and China will hold North Korea in poor, isolated in their arm).
> 
> And I will remind you: Who was kneel at before America in 1972 and strike at Vietnamese's back!? At the end of 1972, USA was bombard like mad on North Vietnam.... lol.
> 
> Chinese give you some pieces and you think them like a God.



China saved your *** during the War in Vietnam , they trained your soldiers , gave you weapons and allowed the Soviets to transport weapons to Vietnam through China borders. 

The Chinese only raped you After vietnam war when the Vietcong started bullying neighbouring countries like Cambodia and Thailand . The reason your economy until today is fucked was due to your countries imperialistic ambition in waging wars on neighbouring Countries but you failed and the Chinese put you back into your place. 

China does not want to have war with Vietnam , but it will crush Vietnam if it misbehaves , remember China could turn your country into dust if they wanted .

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Soryu

mahatir said:


> The USA itself has been secretly negotiating with China in unifying Korea in return for withdrawing from the whole region . The Vietcongs are dumb to believe that America will save them in an event of war with China . The vietcongs do not understand that it was China that saved them from USA .
> 
> I know China is a patient country and looks for long term goals , this is just a matter of time and already USA is reducing its military budget , in a settlement agreement between both sides the USA will sell both Vietnam and Phillipines .
> 
> Vietnam is only digging its own grave with its current behaviour , no one in SE Asia like Vietnam's foreign policy , they always had problems with Thailand , Cambodia and Malaysia .


Think this and that, secrectly ... etc. It's like you are leader of PRC or you are GOD, maybe...? 

LOL, keep turning your tail for your master please and dreaming, good luck .... tsk tsk tsk ... 



mahatir said:


> China saved your *** during the War in Vietnam , they trained your soldiers , gave you weapons and allowed the Soviets to transport weapons to Vietnam through China borders.
> 
> The Chinese only raped you After vietnam war when the Vietcong started bullying neighbouring countries like Cambodia and Thailand . The reason your economy until today is fucked was due to your countries imperialistic ambition in waging wars on neighbouring Countries but you failed and the Chinese put you back into your place.
> 
> China does not want to have war with Vietnam , but it will crush Vietnam if it misbehaves , remember China could turn your country into dust if they wanted .


1. Like bullshjt if I did not know about that, kid ... 

2. So You are Genocide man want to kill all Cambodian and Vietnamese!? So prepare yourself to meet Pol-pot in hell... 

3.Do it, please ...

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## scobydoo

mahatir said:


> Both China and Indonesia are building major ports in Indonesia for dual purpose naval&civilian
> 
> Pelindo II to build 3 new ports within 2 years | The Jakarta Post
> 
> China is also helping Indonesia with producing " Anti-shipping " missile
> 
> Indonesia, China to Sign Missile Production Agreement
> 
> Why do you think Indonesia would Choose China in producing Naval missiles ? it clearly shows where Indonesia stands , they choose to be neutral on the surface but also militarly working with China.
> 
> Indonesia has given the PLA navy permission to use Indonesian waters to spy and monitor the philippines .
> 
> At the end both Indonesia and Malaysia are muslim countries and they understand that the so called " Asia pivot " is not about china but rather attacking Muslims living in Indonesia and Malaysia , it is understandable why both countries are supporting china
> 
> A strong China will ensure the Independence of Malaysia and Indonesia from the threats of Christian aggression lead by philippines and the west.
> 
> Indonesians have watched on TV what happened to Muslims in the middle east at the hands of Americans , they are have their reasons in supporting China and the one china policy .
> 
> 
> 
> Excellent , A strong China is needed for an Independent Asia from foreign influence .


Since when Indonesia allow its territory for other country to spying others? Our constitution doesn't allow that. 

Indonesia is not muslim country dude, our law guarantees freedom of 6 religion, and applying equal treatment to all 6 religion. Indonesia dont support any claimant on SCS issues

I don't know where do you get all these political view about Indonesia, but its totally wrong.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## USAHawk785

scobydoo said:


> Since when Indonesia allow its territory for other country to spying others? Our constitution doesn't allow that.
> 
> Indonesia is not muslim country dude, our law guarantees freedom of 6 religion, and applying equal treatment to all 6 religion. Indonesia dont support any claimant on SCS issues
> 
> I don't know where do you get all these political view about Indonesia, but its totally wrong.



Well said, clearly mahatir is a delusional, kowtowing quack.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Zero_wing

mahatir said:


> I was even suggesting replacing Vietnam and Philippines with China in ASEAN , it would give the organization a great boast and power if China Joined .



Are crazy one the China is outside of the South east Asia region hence the word "Association of Southeast Asian Nations" two the Philippines is founding member of ASEAN if the Philippines leave ASEAN its founding member it will be just like shooting your own foot in short it ASEAN will lose legitimacy and unity in fact it does not just go for the founding members but also all the members of the Organization remember its trying to be community and its already pushing hard for it now you trying to suggesting to break it up by removing countries that are Anti Chinese Imperialist? Only Maoist brainless chinko Imperial would even think like that! I mean its bad enough you total Cambodia a puppet state (well they need the money) Making the future of ASEAN grim and you wanna turn it to a modern day WARSAW pact with your country as the Modern USSR! (man this Chinko Imperials come up with really imbecilic ideas and suggestions) I think we got other false flagger chinko Imperialist troll who needs to have common sense and brain.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## HongWu

mahatir said:


> The USA itself has been secretly negotiating with China in unifying Korea in return for withdrawing from the whole region . The Vietcongs are dumb to believe that America will save them in an event of war with China . The vietcongs do not understand that it was China that saved them from USA .
> 
> I know China is a patient country and looks for long term goals , this is just a matter of time and already USA is reducing its military budget , in a settlement agreement between both sides the USA will sell both Vietnam and Phillipines .
> 
> Vietnam is only digging its own grave with its current behaviour , no one in SE Asia like Vietnam's foreign policy , they always had problems with Thailand , Cambodia and Malaysia .


Vietnamese and Filipinos think they are clever by allying themselves with USA against China. Aquino III outsmarted himself last year because China is so powerful we can confront USA directly in a naval war within the first island chain. We called their bluff and Philippines lost the disputed island. Now we are doing the same thing with Vietnam. I am just waiting for Vietnam to make a blunder like Aquino III and it's all over for Hanoi because we share a land border with them.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zero_wing

HongWu said:


> Vietnamese and Filipinos think they are clever by allying themselves with USA against China. Aquino III outsmarted himself last year because China is so powerful we can confront USA directly in a naval war within the first island chain. We called their bluff and Philippines lost the disputed island. Now we are doing the same thing with Vietnam. I am just waiting for Vietnam to make a blunder like Aquino III and it's all over for Hanoi because we share a land border with them.



Wow sir are you high? really maybe in your country history books it said that you won but you guys won a few islands but overall you guys could not subdue Vietnam they were battle harden you guys fell apart most of your battles with them they manage to content your invasion but they had big casualties so in truth nobody won that war it was stalemate but in terms of defense i say Vietnam did well if you say this not true why did Vietnam still exist today then? Don't tell me you were you show mercy because that's not true if you did that belief that you won should not exist it would say that a peace deal has been made but both countries claim victory again it was a stalemate a draw so deal with it other is you wining against the US Navy is other opium generated fantasy (should stop using that $h#t) one you never went on any naval engagement ever the Us has two the US navy can fight 3 wars in period of 100 years while most of your technology is copied poorly or stole from others it does not far against the US superior technology which one of the most advance you can sick a few ships but in the end your PLA navy will be corals reefs so please do so if you have the power to do so.

On my country one the only mistake President Aquino made is believing china to honor agreement that was made during the standoff so that's it but if i was the President i would send half of the Philippine Navy in the back of the Philippine Coast Guard and ask Aid to US and our Regional Allies to back us up and then Complain to the UN for gross violation of the code of conduct and endangering world peace in that way china will be heavy criticized for doing so and force to withdraw or risk international condemnation for using force not even your International position and your set in the security council can protect you with that mess so you have to either withdraw of continue and risk a new War. Oh ya would say to me why would the Us give a damn well not just MDT America has strategic interest and economic ones in the Philippines plus we got lobbying groups in the States and the Filipino American Vote not to mention Americans living the Philippines plus relationship history etc and other countries have invests here not unless china is willing to compensate many would still support the Philippines and attack legitimate peace loving country is bad press for china and not to mention you guys made a lot of enemies so take your pick a few reason vs a lot of good reason its seems your country will lose hard no matter what you do.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## USAHawk785

mahatir said:


> We have 2 major Ally China and Indonesia , by the way we bombed the philippines border during the sabah conflict 2 month ago and killed over 100 philipinos what did the united states do ? nothing .
> 
> The chinese Navy took over James Shoal and continuously passes into philipines waters what did your united states do ? nothing
> 
> Your Nato is broken up clown , both Germany and France are against the united states and you really have no allies except britain who I would question their future commitment to any war.
> 
> south korea is locked with north and if the north unites with south then they will turn against your ******* country , as for Japan its no more than a toothless *****
> 
> 
> 
> LOL you will be Isolated in Asean vietcong thailand , indonesia and malaysia all against your ****** country , as for philippines we no they are nothing better than being maids in our country.
> 
> Malaysia economy is triple vietnam's economy yet we have 1/4 your populations, show how " strong " your country is clown .



Allies? lol ! The Indonesian military [TNI] views Malaysia as its major threat. Lest you forget the territorial confrontation Jakarta has had with Kuala Lumpur regard Sipadan. You're an isolated nation, a shrimp among whales. Your nation is surrounded on all sides ; Thailand's Royal Thai Armed Forces to the north, Singapore to your center, and the giant Indonesia and the TNI to your south. 

In case of a war, in the event that ASEAN collapsed, Malaysia would be gobbled up.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## mahatir

USAHawk785 said:


> Allies? lol ! The Indonesian military [TNI] views Malaysia as its major threat. Lest you forget the territorial confrontation Jakarta has had with Kuala Lumpur regard Sipadan. You're an isolated nation, a shrimp among whales. Your nation is surrounded on all sides ; Thailand's Royal Thai Armed Forces to the north, Singapore to your center, and the giant Indonesia and the TNI to your south.
> 
> In case of a war, in the event that ASEAN collapsed, Malaysia would be gobbled up. And who would save your brown-skinned malays and their bhumiputra 'rights' ? lol.
> 
> Get back to reality, bud. Too much cannabis truly negatively impacts your coherence and neurocognitive acuity.



what a clown , stupid Indonesians and Malaysians are originally Malay , we speak the same language and share same religion LOL. 

Singapore are Chinese 
Thailand 15% chinese and allied with China " they have issues with vietnam to " . 
Philippines no comment , they were fucked by us recently in sabah conflict. 
Indonesia and Malaysia share same ethnicity and religion . 

Bottom line you have no chance in this region clown

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zero_wing

mahatir said:


> what a clown , stupid Indonesians and Malaysians are originally Malay , we speak the same language and share same religion LOL.
> 
> Singapore are Chinese
> Thailand 15% chinese and allied with China " they have issues with vietnam to " .
> Philippines no comment , they were fucked by us recently in sabah conflict.
> Indonesia and Malaysia share same ethnicity and religion .
> 
> Bottom line you have no chance in this region clown



Really? you do realized the Philippines did send them there it was moros idea to go there beside they owned that area anyway they are still there so why do mean you F@ck them over? they will be a pain to you so good luck with that beside you people armed and train them so its karma see how do like being trolled


----------



## Malaya

mahatir said:


> We have 2 major Ally China and Indonesia ,


Are you dreaming? Indonesia your ally?


> by the way we bombed the philippines border during the sabah conflict 2 month ago and killed over 100 philipinos what did the united states do ? nothing .


You mean this?







You have unleashed all your military might to quell a small size of determined Tausug Mujahideens but with a disappointing outcome and a huge embarrassment to your amateur army.

Don&#8217;t worry Malaysia will experience what the Philippines has experience and even worse.



> The chinese Navy took over James Shoal and continuously passes into philipines waters what did your united states do ? nothing


LOL the Chinese is already in Malaysian territories and has 4 warships anchored in James Shoal to supervise the construction of a military installation there. They are claiming all the Islands and waters in and around that area which Malaysia considered part of its territory. For sure ethnic Chinese in Malaysia will welcome China with open arms since they fear your country is becoming an Islamic state.



> LOL you will be Isolated in Asean vietcong thailand , indonesia and malaysia all against your ****** country , as for philippines we no they are nothing better than being maids in our country.
> 
> Malaysia economy is triple vietnam's economy yet we have 1/4 your populations, show how " strong " your country is clown .



You think you have a lot of friends within ASEAN? Singapore should kick your butt out; you Malaysians maltreated Singaporeans, leading to riots and their eventual pull out of the federation. Singapore should ban all Malaysians coming into its territory, and guard its borders heavily. The land-grabbers are way too close. Ask people at Aceh Indonesia and south Thailand. I used to admire Mahathir, I did not know he is crook, a big-ticket crook. Japs export cars, Koreans export high-tech gadgets, Taiwan sells computer parts, etc and Malaysia? It is a smuggler of arms, trainer of secessionist groups, supporter and exporter of small wars.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Malaya

HongWu said:


> China spanked Philippines and Japan and grabbed control over disputed islands. *Still waiting for American response.*


China don't have balls. The Philippines and Japan is waiting for your first shot.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## hurt

Malaya said:


> China don't have balls. The Philippines and japan is waiting for your first shot.




There is Philippines.
There is japan.
but there is no Philippines and japan

you only face it by youself. No one can help you


----------



## Malaya

hurt said:


> There is Philippines.
> There is japan.
> but there is no Philippines and japan
> 
> you only face it by youself. No one can help you


CHINA in reality has no appetite to wage war... it can't even touch a small island called TAIWAN.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## hurt

Malaya said:


> CHINA in reality has no appetite to wage war... it can't even touch a small island called TAIWAN.



All of People are Chinese citizensin in taiwan .We need Chinese citizensin alive include soldiers of taiwan.
But there is no much chinese citizensin in Philippines,We never mind Philippines.....

PS.Philippines too weak.The taiwan Army of a small island can destroy Philippines so easy.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Malaya

hurt said:


> All of People are Chinese citizensin in taiwan .We need Chinese citizensin alive include soldiers of taiwan.
> But there is no much chinese citizensin in Philippines,We never mind Philippines.....
> 
> PS.*Philippines too weak.The taiwan Army of a small island can destroy Philippines so easy*.


Don't worry that won't happen. Taiwan and the Philippines have good economic and bilateral relations. Besides both are also strong US allies.

China really deserves a thorn on its side, like Taiwan. 

Aside from Japan, Vietnam, Philippines, S. Korea, India etc

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Zero_wing

hurt said:


> because you too weak



Weakness is not a sin and so what if we are weak the question is who is the aggressor here? That is answerable by the answer china is the greatest aggression the so called peaceful rise is lie just like everything in china and china is the new Nazi Japanese Empire and Fascist Italy in the 21st century same mind set too one both think of others as lower than themselves two you want to glory in war three expand territories base on old maps old mind set etc.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Bob Ong

Zero_wing said:


> Weakness is not a sin and so what if we are weak the question is who is the aggressor here? That is answerable by the answer china is the greatest aggression the so called peaceful rise is lie just like everything in china and china is the new Nazi Japanese Empire and Fascist Italy in the 21st century same mind set too one both think of others as lower than themselves two you want to glory in war three expand territories base on old maps old mind set etc.


I think what he means is China's case is *extremely weak*. 

They are afraid to settle the issue in the international court because they knew that they are going to lose the fight and get embarrass in the international community.

China can fool their own people but they cannot fool us.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Zero_wing said:


> *Weakness is not a sin* and so what if we are weak the question is who is the aggressor here? That is answerable by the answer china is the greatest aggression the so called peaceful rise is lie just like everything in china and china is the new Nazi Japanese Empire and Fascist Italy in the 21st century same mind set too one both think of others as lower than themselves two you want to glory in war three expand territories base on old maps old mind set etc.



Weakness is not a sin, but ignorance is.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Zero_wing

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Weakness is not a sin, but ignorance is.



Yup that's the problem! The Problem is you guys are the ignorant once here that's the problem! face it no matter what you Imperials say its not going to change your faults the True is you think you can push people from there birth right their livelihoods their Sovereignty because you think your strong sir you just a factory that's the only thing saving you nothing more your luckily because of that but people are sick and tried of your warmongering and your cheap copying soon or later you lose that economic shield of yours the rate your going that's happening fast so ya keep it up your killing yourselves that's fine. 

We have Allies plus you mange to anger a lot of countries with your war mongering and saber ratting and Just because your bigger does not make you stronger and beside in Korean War a bunch of Filipino quartermasters and cooks, drivers manage to stop you a whole division of your PVA while the Americans and the rest could not so that's saying something 300 plus versus a whole division on a bridge and plus a small country have stop you too 1979 so miracles do happen. I mean its like this strike us the whole world will have your head so please do so it would be damaging for us but at less you end up like Imperial Japan, Nazi Germany, Facist Italy so you can join in Hell.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Fsjal

^APPLY COLD WATER TO BURNS^
ouch. That's gotta burn


----------



## hurt

Bob Ong said:


> I think what he means is China's case is *extremely weak*.
> 
> They are afraid to settle the issue in the international court because they knew that they are going to lose the fight and get embarrass in the international community.
> 
> China can fool their own people but they cannot fool us.



the international court 
Its only a joke.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zero_wing

hurt said:


> the international court
> Its only a joke.



Ok so why are member of the UN then why did sign UNCLOS if its all a joke or maybe like the rest of the Empire's population your just ignorant about International law?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## hurt

Zero_wing said:


> Ok so why are member of the UN then why did sign UNCLOS if its all a joke or maybe like the rest of the Empire's population your just ignorant about International law?



Plz read the reserved Terms of every member of the UN


----------



## hurt

Zero_wing said:


> Ok so why are member of the UN then why did sign UNCLOS if its all a joke or maybe like the rest of the Empire's population your just ignorant about International law?



If it not a joke ,there is no Falklands problem in today.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zero_wing

hurt said:


> If it not a joke ,there is no Falklands problem in today.



See you don't even know the difference that why your people are $tupid hahahaha

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## hurt

Zero_wing said:


> See you don't even know the difference that why your people are $tupid hahahaha



difference &#65311;
If two Country own enough power ,then UNCLOS is useful.
but ....
Stupid is only for a man who think UNCLOS is useful

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zero_wing

hurt said:


> difference &#65311;
> If two Country own enough power ,then UNCLOS is useful.
> but ....
> Stupid is only for a man who think UNCLOS is useful



Sure sure and mao killed millions was struck of genus  look Imperial the rest of the world live in the 21st century you live in a cave so its pretty understandable why you have no idea what international law is?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## hurt

Zero_wing said:


> Sure sure and mao killed millions was struck of genus  look Imperial the rest of the world live in the 21st century you live in a cave so its pretty understandable why you have no idea what international law is?



international law ?
It only for powerful country to constraint yous.
Ignorance as you 
UNCLOS cant do adjudication Sovereignty dispute when any country Disagree.
Plz read what is the content of Appeal about poor Philippines in International Tribunal


----------



## cirr

A new toy soon to be spotted in the SCS&#65306;

http://you.video.sina.com.cn/api/si...AyYJMXNb9wH4SrfA8ZH8XoLHcwydP4n1BQuYa9Y/s.swf

Sitting 12 and carrying 1.2 tons of cargoes&#65292;the CYG-11 marine WIG manufactured by Hainan YingGe WIG Co. Ltd., is capable of 210 km per hour at 1-4m over the sea level&#65306;

















The company has completed design of the CYG-40 which can carry 40 passengers and 4 tons of cargoes&#12290;

The CYG-100&#12289;CYG-150 and CYG-200 are also under development&#12290;

???????????????????


----------



## Bob Ong

hurt said:


> the international court
> Its only a joke.


Here we go again, China's plan of domination.

Be a responsible member of the international community. If you only strictly follow the law of the sea set by UNCLOS, everything will be in order. The problem is your greed it's getting bigger and bigger just like your population.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Bob Ong

server problem (double post)


----------



## Bob Ong

*Aquino hopeful about talks on West Philippine Sea code of conduct*
By TJ Burgonio
Philippine Daily Inquirer
Tuesday, April 23rd, 2013







MANILA, PhilippinesPresident Benigno Aquino III is flying to Brunei Wednesday for the Association of Southeast Asian Nations summit, optimistic that the push for talks on the code of conduct in the (West Philippine Sea) South China Sea with China would prosper.

The Asean has reached a consensus to push for an early conclusion of negotiations on a legally binding code of conduct that would govern any conflict over overlapping claims in the international waterway between member-countries and China.

Were optimistic that well see progress because of the 22nd summit, one of the Presidents spokespersons, Abigail Valte, said at a Malacañang news briefing.

Valte observed that Brunei has updated its priorities in its chairmanship of Asean this year following last years Asean consensus that the time was ripe to negotiate a code of conduct on the West Philippine Sea.

Sultan Hassanal Bolkiah of Brunei week flew to Manila last week for a brief state visit to discuss the agenda of the summit with Aquino.

The Associated Press reported that a draft statement to be issued after the summit would reaffirm the Asean leaders commitment to ensure peaceful resolution of conflicts in the waterway in accordance with international law without resorting to the threat or use of force.

The Asean leaders would call for an early adoption of the code of conduct with Beijing, which has maintained that the time wasnt ripe for it, and preferred to negotiate with individual claimants.

The Philippines, Brunei, Malaysia and Vietnam of Asean, as well as China and Taiwan have overlapping claims over the West Philippine Sea that over the last few years has become a flashpoint for conflict.

Observers said the tense standoff between Philippines and Chinese vessels at the Scarborough Shoal in April last year underlined the importance of a code of conduct with Beijing.

Aquino is flying Wednesday afternoon for the opening of the summit in Bandar Seri Begawan with three Chinese surveillance ships still in the area, despite earlier agreement by both countries to withdraw.

The continuing intrusion is a violation of the Declaration of the Conduct of Parties in the West Philippine Sea, a 2002 non-aggression accord, foreign affairs officials said.

The brief, two-day summit opens with a working dinner hosted by Bolkiah on Wednesday night. The next day at the Retreat Session, the leaders will exchange views on regional and international issues, and the future of the regional bloc.

Aquino will also join his counterparts in the 9th Brunei-Indonesia-Malaysia-Philippines East Asean Growth Area (BIMP-EAGA) Summit after the retreat session.

Joining the President are Foreign Secretary Albert del Rosario, Finance Secretary Cesar Purisima, Trade Secretary Gregory Domingo, Socio-Economic Planning Secretary Arsenio Balisacan, Cabinet Secretary Rene Almendras and presidential spokesperson Secretary Edwin Lacierda.

Apart from pushing for the code, the Philippines has challenged Chinas claim over most of the West Philippine Sea by filing a notification and statement of claim with the United Nations.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## hurt

Bob Ong said:


> Here we go again, China's plan of domination.
> 
> Be a responsible member of the international community. If you only strictly follow the law of the sea set by UNCLOS, everything will be in order. The problem is your greed it's getting bigger and bigger just like your population.



Waiting Plz.You will know the result

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## shuttler

Malaya said:


> China don't have balls. The Philippines and Japan is waiting for your first shot.



You were looking at inside of your pants and those of the japanese shown on dvds

We are in control of &#40644;&#23721;&#23707; Huangyan Dao and maintaining routine petrol of Diaoyu Islands!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## shuttler

Bob Ong said:


> Here we go again, China's plan of domination.



we have given you an option. The option was mentioned in one of your post. Domination comes with our growing strength. it is
normal for one country to confirm and remind intruders of their sovereignty claims.



> Be a responsible member of the international community. If you only strictly follow the law of the sea set by UNCLOS, everything will be in order. The problem is your greed it's getting bigger and bigger just like your population.



We always are a responsible member. The international law does not apply to one's sovereignty territory. That is not greed but grace and magnanimity when we offer to your government for co-exploration of resources in our area

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Bob Ong

shuttler said:


> we have given you an option. The option was mentioned in one of your post. Domination comes with our growing strength. it is
> normal for one country to confirm and remind intruders of their sovereignty claims.
> 
> 
> 
> We always are a responsible member. The international law does not apply to one's sovereignty territory. That is not greed but grace and magnanimity when we offer to your government for co-exploration of resources in our area


So you are now saying that what China is doing now is justified?

Your country based sovereignty through a historical map. You NEVER even clarified the basis of your claim. 

The "nine-dotted-lines" map essentially encompasses the whole South China Sea. 






The map carries no clear explanation as to the legal basis, the method of drawing used, the status of those separated dotted lines and to claim your neighbors' exclusive economic zones is grave blunder. You can't mark lines on waters. 

Obviously your ridiculous claim is only an excuse to justify your thirst for oil even to the extent of ignoring the provisions of the UNCLOS of which your country is a signatory.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## shuttler

Bob Ong said:


> So you are now saying that what China is doing now is justified?
> 
> Your country based sovereignty through a historical map. You NEVER even clarified the basis of your claim. The "nine-dotted-lines" map essentially encompasses the whole South China Sea.
> 
> The map carries no clear explanation as to the legal basis, the method of drawing used, the status of those separated dotted lines and to claim your neighbors' exclusive economic zones is grave blunder. You can't mark lines on waters.



We are justified for the rightful claim of our land in history which includes the Map among all other things regardless of international laws which apply to international areas



> Obviously your ridiculous claim is only an excuse to justify your thirst for oil because you know that the South China Sea is rich in oil reserves. Even to the extent of ignoring the provisions of the UNCLOS of which your country is a signatory.



we asked you for joint-explorations didnt we?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zero_wing

Hahaha really how come your killing of endanger species and using methods that are internationally illegal and using hostility to take ships and territories not part and have been locally govern by the respective countries of the area. responsible tell that to the people how have been killed or in the hospital both your own country and the occupied territories and the country your now invading and the people you so called helping in Africa (stealing resources and collocating with corrupt leaders of the countries your stealing from) Responsible ha! What a Joke!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Bob Ong

shuttler said:


> We are justified for the rightful claim of our land in history which includes the Map among all other things regardless of international laws which apply to international areas
> 
> 
> 
> we asked you for joint-explorations didnt we?


You are right about the sharing of responsibility for the development of the resources but certainly not on a 50:50 basis. If it is our territory, then, we have control of the venture and it has to be operated under Philippines laws. 

A joint venture on a 50:50 basis would simply not be workable because China would simply do what they want anyway. Someone has to be in control. Once that's resolved then by all means let's have a joint venture.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## shuttler

Bob Ong said:


> You are right about the sharing of responsibility for the development of the resources but certainly not on a 50:50 basis. If it is our territory, then, we have control of the venture and it has to be operated under Philippines laws.
> 
> A joint venture on a 50:50 basis would simply not be workable because China would simply do what they want anyway. Someone has to be in control. Once that's resolved then by all means let's have a joint venture.



the sharing can be negotiable
we want sovereignty because we dont want to be boxed in by the us-japanese collusion
if your government can accept the terms, we can help elevate the Philippines to the next level higher up, through our economic, science & tech co-operations as well as for the improvment of your harbours, infrastructures at affordable prices!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zero_wing

AKA its stupid and we are not stupid we are weak for now but not stupid! I mean one you want us to share the resource of our own waters and lands and you don't even wanna follow our laws and claim majority of the resources for yourselves leaving us with cents as income and you call that far and sharing hahahahahaha man that's good imbecilic idea i have ever heard and regardless of what? Sir international law may not be strong as Municipal Law but still its a Law, A law design to benefit all nations in the world while you wanna follow it in your own convenience in your mindset in reality it must be followed upon because majority of nations agree to it for mutual benefit and protection so please try to understand logic real logic

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Soryu

shuttler said:


> we have given you an option. The option was mentioned in one of your post. Domination comes with our growing strength. it is
> normal for one country to confirm and remind intruders of their sovereignty claims.
> 
> 
> 
> We always are a responsible member. The international law does not apply to one's sovereignty territory. That is not greed but grace and magnanimity when we offer to your government for co-exploration of resources in our area





shuttler said:


> the sharing can be negotiated
> we want sovereignty because we dont want to be boxed in by the us-japanese collusion
> if your government can accept the terms, we can help elevate the Philippines to the next level higher up, through our economic, science & tech co-operations as well as for the improvment of your harbours, infrastructures at affordable prices!


Chinese face alway thick like this. 
On one side they said those Islands and Sea were their "core interests" and non-controversy, but on other side, they said "hey, We can share you something and co-operations in somewhere, just recognition those thing which we claim belong to us, and we have all right on those, OK!" ...

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## shuttler

Soryu said:


> Chinese face alway thick like this.
> On one side they said those Islands and Sea were their "core interests" and non-controversy, but on other side, they said "hey, We can share you something and co-operations in somewhere, just recognition those thing which we claim belong to us, and we have all right on those, OK!" ...



you vietcong bullies still live in stone age

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

shuttler said:


> you vietcong bullies still live in stone age



Head of Mr. Ah Q is empty don't has nothing to troll.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

shuttler said:


> you vietcong bullies still live in stone age



Yeah, We live in stone age and drill oils in SCS,...

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Vitchilo

> you vietcong bullies still live in stone age


Yeah the bully lives in the stone age... makes total sense. Usually the bully is the one with power pushing the weaker people around... according to you, the bully would be CHINA since China is stronger than Vietnam... so you would be right... China is the bully.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Malaya

shuttler said:


> You were looking at inside of your pants and those of the japanese shown on dvds
> 
> We are in control of &#40644;&#23721;&#23707; Huangyan Dao and maintaining routine petrol of Diaoyu Islands!


Well Japan will not give up its claim to this island. They are occupying it and ready for war in case other countries force them to do so. China will be gauge in this area and Japan is ready to confront you in this situation.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Malaya

Bob Ong said:


> Here we go again, China's plan of domination.
> 
> Be a responsible member of the international community. If you only strictly follow the law of the sea set by UNCLOS, everything will be in order. The problem is your greed it's getting bigger and bigger just like your population.


China is too much afraid to lose its legal battle in UNCLOS on its imaginary and unsubstantiated nine-idiot line claim because it will lose face and more importantly lose its claims on the rich resource of West Philippine Sea. They should take history lessons of its false idiot-line claim. It&#8217;s groundless from historical and legal perspectives. 



Soryu said:


> Chinese face alway thick like this.
> On one side they said those Islands and Sea were their "core interests" and non-controversy, but on other side, they said "hey, We can share you something and co-operations in somewhere, just recognition those thing which we claim belong to us, and we have all right on those, OK!" ...


The Chinese double talk simply makes it more obvious.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Malaya

*European Parliament adopts resolution supporting PHL arbitration on the WPS issue*




*European parliament backs arbitration*
By Pia Lee-Brago (The Philippine Star) | Updated April 24, 2013







MANILA, Philippines - The European parliament adopted a resolution on March 14 approving a report that included its support for the Philippines&#8217; arbitration initiative, under the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), in clarifying the country&#8217;s maritime entitlements in the West Philippine Sea (South China Sea), the Department of Foreign Affairs (DFA) announced yesterday.

In the report, a paragraph on the West Philippine Sea stated that the parliament *&#8220;underlines the global importance of the South China Sea through which one third of the world&#8217;s trade passes; is alarmed at the escalating tension and therefore urgently appeals to all parties involved to refrain from unilateral political and military actions, to tone down statements and to settle their conflicting territorial claims in the South China Seas by means of international arbitration in accordance with international law, in particular the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea, in order to ensure regional stability.&#8221;*

The report, prepared by the parliament&#8217;s committee on foreign affairs on European Union-China relations, likewise called on China to &#8220;commit itself to observing the UN Charter and international law in pursuit of its goals abroad.&#8221;

&#8220;The European parliament&#8217;s resolution is a milestone in the efforts of our country to generate awareness and support for our arbitration efforts,&#8221; Foreign Affairs Secretary Albert del Rosario said.

*&#8220;The recourse to arbitration is firmly rooted in the tradition of good global citizenship. We are strongly committed to seeing this arbitration through and there should be no doubts about our resolve to clarify our maritime entitlements in the West Philippine Sea peacefully and in accordance with the rule of law,&#8221;* he stressed.

The European parliament represents the largest transnational democratic electorate in the world, with some 375 million eligible voters in 2009.

A United States Senate resolution on the peaceful settlement of disputes in the West Philippine Sea was unanimously passed in 2012.

European parliament backs arbitration | Headlines, News, The Philippine Star | philstar.com

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Malaya

*Peaceful solution to sea row: Phl no longer lone wolf*
By Aurea Calica (The Philippine Star) | Updated April 25, 2013 






*BANDAR SERI BEGAWAN &#8212; The Philippines is no longer a lone wolf in pushing for a peaceful resolution of regional maritime disputes, with the international community &#8211; and not just the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) &#8211; recognizing the issue&#8217;s importance.*

President Aquino arrived here yesterday for the ASEAN summit where he is expected to continue pushing for a code of conduct in the South China Sea.

*The Philippines wants ASEAN to be united in pressing for a code of conduct as it deals with China, which claims virtually the entire South China Sea*.

&#8220;The Philippines has championed several causes in ASEAN and of course it is not a secret to all of you that in the beginning we seem to be lone wolves,&#8221; Philippine Permanent Representative to the ASEAN Ambassador Elizabeth Buensuceso said in an interview here Tuesday.

&#8220;Now, everyone is upholding what we call the Code of Conduct in the South China Sea&#8212;it&#8217;s a very popular topic nowadays. Who championed that? The Philippines - we championed the cause of the rule of law in settling international disputes,&#8221; she said.

Buensuceso said the Philippines persevered not only in championing peaceful resolution of disputes but also in protecting migrant workers&#8217; human rights, and ensuring a drugs-free ASEAN among other issues.

&#8220;There are many areas in the ASEAN cooperation wherein the voice of the Philippines prevailed although sometimes it looks like we&#8217;re the only ones talking,&#8221; she said.

During the meetings of senior officials and foreign ministers here prior to the leaders&#8217; summit, a statement issued &#8220;contains the very elements that the Philippines has been fighting for,&#8221; Buensuceso said.

&#8220;We have already the elements that have been agreed upon by the ASEAN Ministers,&#8221; Foreign Affairs spokesman Raul Hernandez said.

These are the six-point principles that include the full implementation of the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties (COC) in the West Philippine Sea, Guidelines for the Implementation of the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties, early conclusion of a regional COC, full respect for the universally recognized principles of international law including the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), continued exercise of self-restraint and non-use of force by all parties, and the peaceful resolution of disputes in accordance with universally recognized principles of international law including the UNCLOS.

China does not want to internationalize the issue and even rejected the Philippines&#8217; move for a UN arbitration to settle the dispute.

China wanted to deal with the conflict bilaterally with the other claimants such as Brunei, Malaysia, and Vietnam.

In Cambodia last year, the ASEAN summit became controversial as Phnom Penh was accused of siding with China and sabotaging the joint statements of the bloc.

&#8220;The six principles have been agreed upon and the elements of a code of conduct have been agreed upon by all ASEAN (members). They agreed that these should be the content of a code of conduct,&#8221; Buensuceso said.

*She said the Philippines is optimistic that the leaders would come up with a constructive statement, especially on maintaining peace and stability in the region.*

Even with the achievements and headways, Buensuceso said, &#8220;we&#8217;re not going to rest on our laurels.&#8221;

&#8220;In this summit we will urge the ASEAN-member countries to be forward-looking. What now after the so-called blueprint (that) will end in 2015 is accomplished? What is the future of ASEAN? How will ASEAN play a role in the international community? So the future of ASEAN is one&#8212;the other challenge also is how to make ASEAN the driver of movements in this region,&#8221; she said.

According to Buensuceso, ASEAN wants to be unanimous in tackling issues, and to become a single market by integrating economically.

She said the &#8220;clout&#8221; of the ASEAN could no longer be denied in the international community with countries falling in line to deal with it now. &#8211;Pia Lee-Brago

Peaceful solution to sea row: Phl no longer lone wolf | Headlines, News, The Philippine Star | philstar.com

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Malaya

*ASEAN talks 'in right direction'*
BY RAPPLER.COM
04/25/2013 





*
PEACEFUL RESOLUTION. President Benigno Aquino III makes a fresh push for a code of conduct for the South China Sea at the 22nd ASEAN Summit.*

*MANILA, Philippines - The first day of the 22nd ASEAN Summit in Bandar Seri Begawan delved right into the most contentious issue facing the region -- the creation of a Code of Code for the South China Sea (West Philippine Sea)*.

President Benigno Aquino III said this is* "a step in the right direction" *towards adopting a legally-binding code of conduct for the South China Sea to prevent conflict over the territory.

So far, the talks are "sober and calm" and Aquino is optimistic that the time would be ripe for the code of conduct.

*"There might be a consensus that is reached that really pushes the matter forward to really define everybody&#8217;s entitlements and obligations. So, instead of being put on a very low priority, it has been put on, in effect -- we're not saying in a dominant position&#8212;but it is one of the priority areas and nobody has objected, and everybody was listening and discussing it. So that, I think, is a step in the right direction,"* he said.

*This is a far cry from last year when the ASEAN -- for the first time in history -- failed to issue a joint communique due to resistance from the chair, Cambodia -- a known ally of China -- over the South China Sea issue.*

This year, Aquino said Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen has so far not intervened in the talks but there will be further sessions Thursday.

The current chair, Sultan of Brunei Hassanal Bolkiah, earlier said one of his priorities during his term would be to see a code of conduct agreed between ASEAN and China.

*"It's really great that it the first night we're here, the very first meeting and it's already been included in the topics. So, we should really be thankful that the whole of the ASEAN is willing to discuss this instead of, you know, putting it on the backburner. That, I think, is already a help,"* Aquino said.

"After 10 years, where are we? It's not even just 10 years, this is already the 11th year (that a code of conduct is being pursued), but where are we? Now, more or less at the early part of the year we're already discussing it," he added.

Even if the ASEAN finally arrives at a consensus on the code of conduct, Aquino reiterated that the Philippines will continue to pursue its case against China under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) to further resolve the issue through legal means.

*"Our goal is to be clarified. We don't want to heat up the situation. If I say something, they need to answer. So this is a process, let's use all avenues open for all of us to finally come up with something that is definitive: what are your entitlements, what are your obligations,"* he said.

"And then have that&#8212;have a permanence of... with clarity because that's how you determine how you behave with each other, as opposed to differing interpretations of what constitutes correct behavior," he added.

The two-day summit ends Thursday, April 25. - Rappler.com

ASEAN talks 'in right direction'

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Fsjal

ASEAN leaders stress peace in South China Sea - China.org.cn

Southeast Asian leaders on Thursday reaffirmed the importance of peace, stability and maritime security in the South China Sea and the collective commitments under the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea (DOC).

"We reaffirmed the collective commitments under the DOC to ensuring the peaceful resolution of disputes in accordance with universally recognized principles of international law, including the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, without resorting to the threat or use of force, while exercising self- restraint in the conduct of activities," said an official statement.

The leaders also looked forward to continued engagement with China in implementing the DOC in a "full and effective manner," including through mutually agreed joint cooperative activities and projects, said the Chairman's Statement of the 22nd summit of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN), held here on April 24-25.

The ASEAN leaders have tasked their ministers "to continue to work actively with China on the way forward for the early conclusion of a Code of Conduct in the South China Sea on the basis of consensus," the statement added.
--------
In Brunei, a Softer Tone on China - Southeast Asia Real Time - WSJ

Southeast Asian leaders meeting in Brunei for an annual summit are toning down their rhetoric on regional differences over China&#8217;s incursions in the South China Sea that in the past have soured these kinds of meetings.

The goal, officials here say, is to avoid a breakdown like the one last summer at which Association of Southeast Asian Nations foreign ministers failed to issue a closing statement &#8212; a rare event for ASEAN &#8212; because of differences over how aggressive a tone to take on the South China Sea.

In order to keep emotions from rising too high, Brunei, which holds the rotating chairmanship of ASEAN this year, had a clear strategy: let countries with territorial claims to the sea, like the Philippines and Vietnam, air their feelings early, and make it clear that the dispute is on the agenda and will be addressed in the formal communique.

That is in contrast with the approach taken by the 2012 ASEAN chair Cambodia, which started out insisting that South China Sea issues were outside of the scope of the ASEAN agenda. That was met by demands from the Philippines that ASEAN take China to task by mentioning specific incidents where it was accused of overstepping its bounds in disputed territory.

This time, Brunei aims to steer clear of deadlines or any confrontational language that might ruffle China&#8217;s allies in the regional bloc, like Cambodia and Thailand. So far, ASEAN officials seem to be sticking to the script, calling for progress toward a binding code of conduct that would govern activities in disputed territories by China and Southeast Asian rival claimants.

Officials said ASEAN leaders discussed South China Sea issues at a working dinner Wednesday and again Thursday morning as the formal leaders&#8217; meetings opened.

&#8220;It&#8217;s a good thing that at the first meeting the issue has already become part of the topic. So we should really be thankful that the whole of the ASEAN is willing to discuss this instead of putting it on the backburner,&#8221; Philippine President Benigno Aquino said in a briefing with reporters late Wednesday evening.

Sihasak Phuangketkeow, Thailand&#8217;s permanent secretary for foreign affairs, said the focus for this ASEAN summit is smoothing over disagreements so parties can move forward on a binding code of conduct, without setting a firm timeline for that to happen.

&#8220;The overlapping claims have been there for a long time, and I think what we need to do is de-escalate the tensions,&#8221; he said in an interview.

In a related development, the U.N. tribunal on the Law of the Sea that is hearing the Philippines arbitration claim against China with regard to its territorial claims in the South China Sea has finished appointing all five members of the arbitration panel, Philippine foreign affairs secretary Albert Del Rosario told The Wall Street Journal.
------------
I just hope Brunei don't take sides. I want them to be neutral and unbiased

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

cirr said:


> A new toy soon to be spotted in the SCS&#65306;
> ..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The company has completed design of the CYG-40 which can carry 40 passengers and 4 tons of cargoes&#12290;
> The CYG-100&#12289;CYG-150 and CYG-200 are also under development&#12290;
> 
> ???????????????????



no toy, but reality:


----------



## Fsjal

^Hey! no war here^

Anyway, those vehicles look garbage. A single ZBD-2000 Amphibious Tank could wipe 'em out

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Soryu

Viet said:


> no toy, but reality:


I want to mention with you, Viet brother, "don't reply to troll dog" (you know what I mean, I think!)

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Malaya

*Vietnam denounces China over map, oceanic development plan *
April 25






The Ministry of Foreign Affairs has condemned China for releasing a map and announcing its so-called 12th Five-Year-Plan of National Oceanic Development, in which it claims sovereignty over Vietnams Truong Sa (Paracel) and Hoang Sa (Spratly) archipelagoes.

Ministry spokesman Luong Thanh Nghi said Wednesday the map and the plan are totally valueless.

Vietnam affirms its indisputable sovereignty over the Hoang Sa and Truong Sa archipelagoes, sovereignty and jurisdiction rights over the exclusive economic zone and continental shelf in the East Sea as is laid out in the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, Nghi said. 

He told the press the release of the map and the announcement of the plan seriously violated Vietnams sovereignty.

He added that such actions breach international law and an agreement on basic principles guiding the settlement of sea-related issues between Vietnam and China, and are not in line with the spirit of the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the East Sea (DOC).

Such actions raise tensions and complicate the situation in the East Sea, he said.
Arduous agreement

Southeast Asian leaders are set to wrap up a summit on Thursday dominated by efforts to defuse tensions over the East Sea, internationally known as the South China Sea, AFP reported.

The 10-member Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) endured deep divisions last year over how to handle rows with China over the sea, and leaders have been focused at this week's talks in Brunei on rebuilding unity, the newswire said.

China and four ASEAN members including Vietnam, the Philippines, Malaysia and Brunei all claim territory in the East Sea. 

Chinas claim is the largest, covering most of the seas 648,000 square miles (1.7 million square km), a move that has been emphatically rejected by international scholars.

The area is thought to hold vast untapped reserves of oil and natural gas that could potentially place China, the Philippines, Vietnam and other claimant nations alongside the likes of Saudi Arabia, Russia and Qatar.

A slew of squabbles between China and ASEAN claimants in the disputed East Sea have prompted protracted negotiations on a formal code of conduct aimed at easing tensions in the waters.

In 2002 the parties involved issued the political Declaration of Conduct (DOC) and China finally agreed in July 2011 to guidelines for its implementation, saying it was open to different formulas and initiatives.

China has proposed that ASEAN and Beijing hold a special meeting to hasten progress on the code of conduct

But analysts said a legally binding robust code of conduct (CoC) is just off the Chinese radar of interest.

"Information regarding the proposed talks between ASEAN and China on a CoC is vague, including dates. I do not expect a major breakthrough on this issue any time soon," said Ian Storey, a maritime expert with the Institute of Southeast Asian Studies in Singapore.

Philippine President Benigno Aquino said Wednesday he was nevertheless happy ASEAN was now at least united in trying to ensure the disputes did not "become bloody", AFP reported.

"So there is unity of purpose and one can always be hopeful that that will lead to something more concrete," he was quoted by the newswire as saying.

Vietnam latest news - Thanh Nien Daily | Vietnam denounces China over map, oceanic development plan





*PH, Vietnam see eye to eye on sea disputes*
By Willard Cheng, ABS-CBN News
Posted at 04/25/2013

BANDAR SERI BEGAWAN, BRUNEIPresident Aquino met with Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung in a bilateral meeting at the sidelines of the ASEAN summit.

*Presidential spokesperson Edwin Lacierda said Vietnam expressed support for the Philippine position on the maritime disputes in the South China Sea.*

Both the Philippines and Vietnam are both locked in a territorial dispute with China over portions of the South China Sea.

Lacierda said the two leaders also tackled economic cooperation between the two countries.

*Both leaders happy with the progress of economic relations and discussed ways on how to further enhance. Both countries acknowledged the improvement of maritime security between the two countries and Vietnam expressed support for the Philippines international initiatives on this matter,* presidential spokesperson Edwin Lacierda said in a text message.

The bilateral meeting happened despite an earlier pronouncement of the Philippine Department of Foreign Affairs that Aquino would have no bilateral meeting at the sidelines of the summit.

PH, Vietnam see eye to eye on sea disputes | ABS-CBN News

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Malaya

*China rejects international arbitration over South China Sea*
Beijing, April 26, 2013

*China on Friday rejected the Philippines' move for international arbitration by a UN body over islands in the South China Sea claimed by both the countries.*

The Philippines had applied for arbitration by the international tribunal on the Law of the Sea, which has now set up a committee to hear the case.

Chinese foreign ministry spokesperson Hua Chunying said China rejected this process and its attitude on the issue will not change.

She said China preferred the issue to be settle bilaterally though negotiations.

The Philippines had in January asking a UN tribunal to order a halt to Beijing's activities that it said violated Philippine sovereignty over the islands, surrounded by potentially energy-rich waters.

The Philippines calls the islets as Spartleys while China calls them as Nansha.

Besides establishing its administrative control over these areas, China in recent months also pressed its naval and surveillance vessels to aggressively patrol the South China Sea areas.

China claims most of South China Sea as its own.

The claim is contested by the Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia and Brunei besides Taiwan.

China rejects international arbitration over South China Sea - Hindustan Times




*ITLOS completes five-man tribunal that will hear PHL case vs. China*
MICHAELA DEL CALLARApril 25, 2013

The Philippines&#8217; case against China took another step forward after a United Nations arbitration body named the last three judges in the five-man tribunal that will hear Manila&#8217;s complaint over what it calls Beijing&#8217;s &#8220;excessive&#8221; claim to the South China Sea.

&#8220;We are hoping that this case that we filed with the tribunal will proceed as soon as possible,&#8221; Foreign Affairs spokesman Raul Hernandez told a press briefing Thursday.

*International Tribunal on the Law of the Sea (ITLOS) President Shunji Yanai *on April 24 transmitted a letter to Philippine Solicitor General Francis Jardeleza, head of the Philippine legal team on the arbitration case, *informing Manila of the appointment of Mr. Jean-Pierre Cot (France), Mr. Chris Pinto (Sri Lanka), and Mr. Alfred Soons (The Netherlands.)*

Yanai earlier appointed Mr. Stanislaw Pawlak (Poland) as the second member of the tribunal who will represent China in the proceedings. The Philippines, on the other hand, nominated Mr. Rudiger Wolfrum (Germany) to the tribunal.

*Illegal*

Manila took a bold step when it initiated an arbitration process under the U.N. Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) on January 21 to try to declare as &#8220;illegal&#8221; China&#8217;s nine-dash claim, which covers nearly the entire resource-rich waters, where some parts are called West Philippine Sea by the Philippines.

China has resisted the Philippines&#8217; move to let a U.N. body intervene in the disputes, saying the case was legally infirm and carried unacceptable allegations.

China, Taiwan, Philippines, Vietnam, Brunei and Malaysia have overlapping claims on the islands, shoals and reefs in the South China Sea, where undersea gas deposits have been discovered in several areas.

Hernandez said the five-member arbitral tribunal will first determine if they have jurisdiction over the Philippine case before an actual hearing takes place.

The Philippine government, he said, is &#8220;very confident&#8221; that the case will be taken up by the tribunal and that the country will be awarded its maritime entitlements in the South China Sea.

&#8220;The nine-dash claim of China has no validity as far as the international law, particularly the UNCLOS, is concerned&#8221; Hernandez said. 

*UNCLOS*

UNCLOS is a 1982 accord by 163 countries that aims to govern the use of offshore areas and sets territorial limits of coastal states. It also allows member-states to seek legal remedy on territorial disputes through mediation.

The Philippines and China are both signatories to the treaty.

Manila insisted that arbitration is &#8220;a peaceful and durable form of dispute settlement pursuant to international law.&#8221;

China, which frowns upon efforts to involve a third party in the disputes, prefers to negotiate one on one with other claimants which would give it advantage because of its sheer size compared to rival claimants which are smaller and have less military force. &#8212; KBK, GMA News

ITLOS completes five-man tribunal that will hear PHL case vs. China | News | GMA News Online

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Malaya

*Asean tells China: It&#8217;s time to talk*
By Michael Lim Ubac
Philippine Daily Inquirer
April 27th, 2013






*MANILA, Philippines&#8212;In agreeing to engage China in negotiations for a code of conduct in the West Philippine Sea (South China Sea), the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (Asean) is sending a clear message to Beijing: It&#8217;s time to view the territorial disputes in the sea as a regional problem and they must be solved through regional, not bilateral, action.*

Foreign Secretary Albert del Rosario took time out from his work on to explain to journalists the ramifications of Thursday&#8217;s Asean agreement in Brunei to unite and talk to China about crafting a code of conduct in the West Philippine Sea that would prevent the conflicting territorial claims in the region from erupting in armed confrontations.

Speaking at a briefing for reporters in Malacañang, Del Rosario said that this time, Asean is determined to compel China to sit down with the bloc&#8217;s 10 members and negotiate a code of conduct with them.

*Asean priority*

He said Brunei, this year&#8217;s Asean chair, made the talks with China on the code a priority for the bloc.

*&#8220;I think Asean is fully ready to do this. I think the next step belongs to China,&#8221;* Del Rosario said.

He said Asean had worked out the &#8220;fundamental elements&#8221; of a code of conduct &#8220;a long time ago&#8221; but China refused to engage, saying &#8220;the time was not right.&#8221;

China refuses to discuss its territorial disputes with its Southeast Asian neighbors in any international forum. It prefers to discuss the disputes through bilateral talks with the other claimants.

Asean members Vietnam, the Philippines, Malaysia and Brunei, as well as Taiwan, claim parts of the West Philippine Sea, almost all of which China insists is its territory.

Asean efforts to craft a code of conduct in the West Philippine Sea all but collapsed last year at a summit chaired by Cambodia, a close economic ally of China, when the group failed to agree on how to approach the issue with China.

*Solid stand*

But in Brunei on Wednesday and Thursday, Asean presented a &#8220;solid&#8221; stand to pursue the effort, Del Rosario said.

The 10 members of the association resolved to effectively enforce the Declaration of Conduct in the South China Sea between Asean and China, and to expedite the conclusion of a code of conduct in the sea with China, Del Rosario said.

He said President Aquino took a central role in the discussion of the code during the two-day summit in Brunei.

*UN arbitration*

*&#8220;He talked at length about arbitration, about its importance, about the fact that it&#8217;s an open, friendly and durable solution to the disputes in the West Philippine Sea,&#8221;* Del Rosario said, referring to the Philippines&#8217; arbitration case against China in the United Nations (UN).

*&#8220;He also talked about the benefits to all countries, starting with China. He emphasized that it clarifies the maritime entitlements of China, especially to its own constituents, in terms of what its expectations should be in accordance with international law,&#8221;* he said.

*&#8220;It&#8217;s good for the Philippines because it will define what is ours,&#8221; *he said, referring to a UN clarification of the Philippines&#8217; rights in its 22-kilometer exclusive economic zone provided for by the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea.


Asean tells China: It&#8217;s time to talk

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Malaya

*PH won&#8217;t give up claims to South China Sea territories*
By Michael Lim Ubac
Philippine Daily Inquirer
April 27th, 2013






MANILA, Philippines&#8212;The Aquino administration turned the tables on Beijing on Saturday, accusing the Chinese government of occupying a piece of Philippine territory in the South China Sea.

*A Palace spokesperson made it clear that Manila was not about to surrender areas in the South China Sea it claims to be part of the Philippines&#8217; exclusive economic zone and refers to as the West Philippine Sea, a day after China claimed that the Philippines was trying to legalize its occupation of islands in the disputed area by going to the United Nations International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea or ITLOS.*

&#8220;What&#8217;s our position when it comes to Bajo de Masinloc? That&#8217;s ours. And we will continue to exercise sovereignty over our territory,&#8221; said Palace spokeswoman Abigail Valte Valte in a radio interview.

Valte reminded China that the Aquino administration had already filed the case in the ITLOS, &#8220;and we are waiting for developments on that.&#8221;

When asked by phone if the Philippine government was still hoping that China would change its mind and accede to an arbitration process by a third party, Valte said, &#8220;It is the position of the Philippine government that taking the case before the arbitral tribunal is well within the framework we have chosen to adopt, which is a rules-based approach.&#8221;

Foreign Secretary Albert del Rosario, for his part, accused Beijing of occupying Bajo de Masinloc, one of the other names for the Scarbourough Shoal, an outcropping of rocks in a shallow section of the West Philippine Sea.

*&#8220;The Chinese have tried to establish a de facto occupation of Bajo de Masinloc. When we last checked, I think they had two maritime surveillance vessels there, and then they had a fisheries law enforcement boat. So they have three vessels there,&#8221;* he said in a briefing at the Palace Friday.

He said this prompted the government to avail itself of the option of seeking international arbitration under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS).

*&#8220;That train has left the station, and we are trying to proceed with that. We believe that that will yield the results that we&#8217;re after in terms of providing a durable solution. Any solution that we would have come up with, short of a solution that is derived from the [UNCLOS], I think, at best, would be a transactional solution, and not a durable one,&#8221;* said Del Rosario.

He said the UN arbitral tribunal might begin deliberations on the merits of the Philippine case by July, and that the deliberations would proceed even without the participation of China.

Del Rosario said the tribunal&#8217;s decision would be &#8220;final and unappealable.&#8221;

Del Rosario did not make it a secret that the government of President Aquino was counting on Vietnam and the rest of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations for support in the country&#8217;s decision to seek international arbitration.

&#8220;And we also are looking at the solidity and the very good working arrangements that we have in terms of our cooperation on maritime security. We are trying to see how that can be improved,&#8221; he said, referring to warming bilateral relations between the Philippines and Vietnam, which has its own territorial dispute with China over the Paracel islands in the South China Sea.

*&#8220;We&#8217;re happy about our cooperation, as I said, on the South China Sea. We received the compliments of Vietnam&#8230; their agreement [with our decision] in terms of what we&#8217;re trying to do, the processes that we&#8217;ve adopted. And they&#8217;re fully on board in terms of cooperating with us. We agreed on how well we are doing in terms of other regional cooperation, and essentially that was it,&#8221;* said Del Rosario.

During his two-day attendance at the 22nd Asean summit in Brunei early this week, President Aquino held bilateral talks with Vietnam Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung.

Both leaders were upbeat over &#8220;the progress of economic relations&#8221; between the two countries as they agreed to &#8220;further enhance&#8221; and strengthen relations, said the Palace.

Told that Filipino fishermen were now barred from entering Bajo de Masinloc by Chinese authorities, he said: &#8220;We have to take a position that we need to move in concert with what our legal advisers are able to provide us in terms of guidance. And right now, they believe that we should give priority to the arbitration case.&#8221;





*ITLOS to decide jurisdiction over Phl-China dispute*
(philstar.com)






*MANILA, Philippines - Foreign Affairs Secretary Albert del Rosario on Friday said the refusal of China to participate in the arbitration case regarding the territorial disputes in the South China Sea would not stop the proceedings.
*
Del Rosario also said the members of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations have finally agreed to press China for the formulation of a Code of Conduct on the South China Sea.

In a briefing in Malacañang on Friday, Del Rosario said that during the Association of Southeast Asian Nations Summit held in Brunei earlier this week, meetings have been planned to "manifest solidarity" among ASEAN members to press for a Code of Conduct.

"I had the impression, good and positive impression, there's solidarity in terms of readiness to convince China that we should move (forward) with the Code of Conduct," Del Rosario said about the just-concluded meeting.

In 2012, ASEAN failed to issue a common statement regarding China's activities in the South China Sea. Cambodia, an ally of China, chaired the ASEAN Summit last year

He said two meetings, one in China, would be scheduled to discuss the issue.

Meanwhile, following the completion of five arbitrators to hear the Philippines' case against China, the DFA chief said the tribunal will first determine if it can hear the case or not.

*"We also expect very soon the arbitration tribunal to ascertain whether they have jurisdiction [over the case] by July. By July, this will have been determined,"* Del Rosario added.

He also said he is confident that the International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea will rule that the case is within its jurisdiction.

Meanwhile, Del Rosario said Sabah was not taken up during the ASEAN meeting because it was not in the meeting's agenda.

He said the Philippines and Malaysia will discuss the issue on a bilateral basis as is custom among ASEAN member states.

"Historically, if there are rather disputes between member states, we discuss first on a bilateral basis and we selected that route," Del Rosario said.

ITLOS to decide jurisdiction over Phl-China dispute | Nation, News, The Philippine Star | philstar.com

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

Yeaaaah, Vietnam supports Philippines´s stance in the dispute with China.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## USAHawk785

Good Job, ASEAN ! Good Job, Philippines !

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## HongWu

China orders the Philippines to withdraw from Spratlys or else military action will follow!

Thitu island is coming back to China just like Scarborough Shoal.

Philippines accused of trying to 'illegally' occupy South China Sea territories - Telegraph

Philippines rejects China's call to withdraw from disputed islands | Sun.Star

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## USAHawk785

And the Nimitz Strike Group is just around the corner.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Zero_wing

Ya and that order can kiss our @$$ china as no right to order the Philippines since its our waters anyway so we ORDER YOU JERKS TO SUCK OUR STICKS AND LEAVE OUR WATERS AND ISLANDS AND WITHDRAW YOUR OCCUPATION FORCES.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Fsjal

^These guys^



HongWu said:


> China orders the Philippines to withdraw from Spratlys or else military action will follow!
> 
> Thitu island is coming back to China just like Scarborough Shoal.
> 
> Philippines accused of trying to 'illegally' occupy South China Sea territories - Telegraph
> 
> Philippines rejects China's call to withdraw from disputed islands | Sun.Star



We will withdraw, if your boats did the same.


----------



## HongWu

USAHawk785 said:


> And the Nimitz Strike Group is just around the corner.


We know.... because we need exact coordinates to launch our DF-21D 




Fsjal said:


> We will withdraw, if your boats did the same.


China offered to share for decades but Aquino III crossed the line. It's a pity because his mother was respected in China. While Aquino III is still Philippines' leader, I can offer no guarantee China will not teach Philippines a lesson to make an example for other countries.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

CMS 2168 launched at HPS today 28.04.2013&#65306;


----------



## Viet

*Vietnam, China hold sea-related negotiations*


Updated : 4/25/2013 5:56:54 PM Voice of Vietnam






(VOV) -Working teams representing Vietnam and China have completed the third round of less contentious negotiations on cooperation at sea in *Beijing*.

The April 22&#8211;24 negotiations accorded with the consensus between higher-level Vietnamese and Chinese leaders as well as the stipulations of the* Vietnam-China Agreement on Basic Principles Guiding the Settlement of Maritime Issues* signed on October 11, 2011.

Both sides exchanged opinions and discussed measures to protect the maritime environment, boost cooperation on science and technology, and collaborate on search & rescue services and natural disaster response.

They agreed to prioritise increasing joint search & rescue efforts, researching and managing the island and *Tonkin Gulf *maritime environments between Vietnam and China, and comparing vestigial Holocene sediments found in the Red River Delta and Changjiang River Delta.

Both sides agreed to hold the fourth round of less contentious sea-related negotiations in *Vietnam *in the second half of this year.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cirr

6&#65288;4+1+1&#65289; CMS vessels seen under construction at HPS&#65306;

4





1





1





All pics taken today 28.04.2013 

More&#65292;far more&#65292;and bigger CMS ships in the pipeline&#12290;


----------



## Viet

Let see what and who comes to visit? Here is a surprise: C125 missiles

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Zero_wing

HongWu said:


> We know.... because we need exact coordinates to launch our DF-21D
> 
> 
> China offered to share for decades but Aquino III crossed the line. It's a pity because his mother was respected in China. While Aquino III is still Philippines' leader, I can offer no guarantee China will not teach Philippines a lesson to make an example for other countries.



We he's been going great can't say about your country his reforms and his solution have made this country great so calling him names and criticizing his leadership will not do your invasion justice your so called indisputable claims are impossible and childish with no legal or logical foundation and if you attack us go ahead then it will end china for sure since the Philippines is using all peaceful means to end this peaceful and you using a military solution it would destroy china's so called peaceful rise and will end both your military and economic domination much faster much more (your on your way) you can bark all this foolish warmongering and racist criticism about my country so please do so see what happens to china. Its the Victim countries last laugh really.

Its funny you claim Japan was and still is evil and yet your on the path they took in the 1930s meaning you people have not learn anything from the war while the rest of us have and seek a peaceful solution you advocate for violence typical imperialist


----------



## longyi

*Chinese tourists sail to disputed islands*









BEIJING: The first Chinese tour ship to visit disputed South China Sea islands set sail on Sunday, state media reported, a move likely to stoke a long-running territorial row between Beijing and its neighbours.

Plans to allow tourists to visit the Paracel Islands is the latest stage in China's development of the territory, which has previously angered Vietnam and caused concern in Washington.

Vietnam and China have a longstanding territorial row over the Paracel Islands. Hanoi last month accused a Chinese vessel of firing on one of its fishing boats which had sailed in disputed waters in the area.

*Up to 100 passengers paid a ticket price between 7,000 yuan ($1,135) and 9,000 yuan for the four-day voyage, which is set to become a monthly or twice monthly trip if the maiden trip proves successful,* the Global Times said.

Only passengers in "good health, which includes having a normal weight" are permitted on the trip, the newspaper added, in a report which cites the Shanghai Morning Post.

The plan to allow cruise tours follows rapid development of infrastructure in a new city -- Sansha -- along with the establishment of an army garrison in the Paracels last year.

A named commentary in the Global Times defended the decision to allow tourists to visit the islands, which are known as Xisha in China.

"China's Xisha tourism has nothing to do with its neighbouring countries," said Ju Hailong, a research fellow at the Institute of Southeast Asian Studies at Jinan University, in the southern city of Guangzhou.

"Those who want to manipulate China's moves to make trouble are not admirers of international law and regional security."

Officials earlier this month confirmed they would open up the Islands to tourism.

China has occupied the Paracels since a brief war with South Vietnam in 1974. It is a cluster of about 40 islets, sandbanks and reefs.

Taiwan, the Philippines, Brunei and Malaysia all have rival claims to parts of the South China Sea, while the United States is also watching Beijing's increased assertiveness.

In his address opening China's parliament last month, former Premier Wen Jiabao said Beijing should "develop the marine economy... and safeguard China's maritime rights and interests".


Chinese tourists sail to disputed islands - Channel NewsAsia


The CPC is very business oriented, I must say.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## HongWu

^ Lucky. I want to go for May holiday. Maybe will see some Vietnamese "navy" vessels sunk by PLAN.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

longyi said:


> *Chinese tourists sail to disputed islands*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BEIJING: The first Chinese tour ship to visit disputed South China Sea islands set sail on Sunday, state media reported, a move likely to stoke a long-running territorial row between Beijing and its neighbours.
> 
> Plans to allow tourists to visit the Paracel Islands is the latest stage in China's development of the territory, which has previously angered Vietnam and caused concern in Washington.
> 
> Vietnam and China have a longstanding territorial row over the Paracel Islands. Hanoi last month accused a Chinese vessel of firing on one of its fishing boats which had sailed in disputed waters in the area.
> 
> *Up to 100 passengers paid a ticket price between 7,000 yuan ($1,135) and 9,000 yuan for the four-day voyage, which is set to become a monthly or twice monthly trip if the maiden trip proves successful,* the Global Times said.
> 
> Only passengers in "good health, which includes having a normal weight" are permitted on the trip, the newspaper added, in a report which cites the Shanghai Morning Post.
> 
> The plan to allow cruise tours follows rapid development of infrastructure in a new city -- Sansha -- along with the establishment of an army garrison in the Paracels last year.
> 
> A named commentary in the Global Times defended the decision to allow tourists to visit the islands, which are known as Xisha in China.
> 
> "China's Xisha tourism has nothing to do with its neighbouring countries," said Ju Hailong, a research fellow at the Institute of Southeast Asian Studies at Jinan University, in the southern city of Guangzhou.
> 
> "Those who want to manipulate China's moves to make trouble are not admirers of international law and regional security."
> 
> Officials earlier this month confirmed they would open up the Islands to tourism.
> 
> China has occupied the Paracels since a brief war with South Vietnam in 1974. It is a cluster of about 40 islets, sandbanks and reefs.
> 
> Taiwan, the Philippines, Brunei and Malaysia all have rival claims to parts of the South China Sea, while the United States is also watching Beijing's increased assertiveness.
> 
> In his address opening China's parliament last month, former Premier Wen Jiabao said Beijing should "develop the marine economy... and safeguard China's maritime rights and interests".
> 
> 
> Chinese tourists sail to disputed islands - Channel NewsAsia
> 
> 
> The CPC is very business oriented, I must say.




Chinese aggressors go to hell. 

*Viet Nam stands up for East Sea*


VietNamNet Bridge &#8211; Viet Nam has reiterated that it will adopt every suitable peaceful measure to defend its sovereignty, jurisdiction and legitimate national interests in the East Sea in accordance with the UN Charter, international law and the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (1982 UNCLOS).

Foreign Ministry spokesperson Luong Thanh Nghi said this in Ha Noi on Friday, April 26. He was answering reporters' questions on Viet Nam's response to the International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea (ITLOS)'s appointment of arbitrators to the ad hoc arbitration tribunal established pursuant to Annex VII of the 1982 UNCLOS.

Nghi said Viet Nam learned that on January 22, the Philippines' foreign ministry sent the Chinese embassy a diplomatic note on the Philippines' proceedings against China to the tribunal. 

"As a coastal country with its legal and legitimate national rights and interests in the East Sea, Viet Nam takes an interest in and keeps a close watch on the process of the law suit", he said.

He added that Viet Nam had sufficient legal and historical evidence and management realities affirming sovereignty, sovereign rights and jurisdiction over its waters in accordance with the 1982 UNCLOS, and other international treaties.

*s"Viet Nam once again affirms its sovereignty over Hoang Sa and Truong Sa archipelagoes, as well as sovereignty, sovereign rights and jurisdiction over its internal and territorial waters, contiguous zone, exclusive economic zone and continental shelf in the Eat Sea",* said Nghi.

Viet Nam has suggested that concerned parties implement the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the East Sea (DOC) signed between ASEAN member nations and China in 2002, and the Joint Declaration of the 15th ASEAN-China Summit on the occasion of the 10th anniversary of the DOC, he said.

The spokesperson added that Viet Nam hoped ASEAN member states and China would "promptly conduct official negotiations to formulate a Code of Conduct in the East Sea (COC)".

Source: VNS

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Malaya

HongWu said:


> China orders the Philippines to withdraw from Spratlys or else *military action will follow!*
> 
> Thitu island is coming back to China just like Scarborough Shoal.
> 
> Philippines accused of trying to 'illegally' occupy South China Sea territories - Telegraph
> Philippines rejects China's call to withdraw from disputed islands | Sun.Star





HongWu said:


> China offered to share for decades but Aquino III crossed the line. It's a pity because his mother was respected in China. While Aquino III is still Philippines' leader, *I can offer no guarantee China will not teach Philippines a lesson to make an example for other countries.*


Well you have to understand that you have more to lose than to gain if the war breaks-out in the West Philippines Sea/South China Sea. If you attack us, there is a big chance for other world powers to join the war in other fronts to grab the opportunity and establish a "new world order" minus the dead dragon. 

ASEAN would be on our side and Japan has all the reason to help us as allies, not to mention the US. Taiwan would also have the chance to bring her fight openly together with other nations joining the war against China. 

It's the classical "Flea Attack" tactics. Bite the dog in different parts until it goes crazy where to scratch. 

So go ahead. We'll just wait for your first shot.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## HongWu

^ You are still waiting for USA to help you against PLAN attack on Scarborough Shoal last year

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Fsjal

By the looks of Vietnam's air defense, China could just launch standoff missiles in safe range. 

Anyway, I just hope no one attacks first



EastSea said:


> Let Japanese rule you again.



ONly if you let the French come back and rule you


----------



## EastSea

Fsjal said:


> By the looks of Vietnam's air defense, China could just launch standoff missiles in safe range.
> 
> Anyway, I just hope no one attacks first
> 
> 
> 
> ONly if you let the French come back and rule you



We beated them ran away.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zero_wing

I guess he did not know the battle of Battle of Dien Bien Phu

Reactions: Like Like:
 2


----------



## Malaya

HongWu said:


> ^ You are still waiting for USA to help you against PLAN attack on Scarborough Shoal last year


Don't worry we'll get back at Scarborough Shoal. While we're beefing up our Armed Forces by way of procurement of modern equipment. We are also waiting for the decision of UNCLOS. Once there's a final decision to legitimize our claim. We can enforce our sovereign rights over the shoals that will soon cannot be disputed and your refusal to comply with the decision will make lose your honor, standing and credibility in the world. We may call on the UN to help us enforce the decision with the help of our allies. 















Pag-Asa or Thitu Island is a different case because we have a military and civilian population living there.

The long standing Mutual Defense Treaty especially the Article 4 that gives power to the US to act, an attack on the Philippine registered air, ships or land especially if that is a military assets will be an attack also to the US sovereignty. The Visiting Forces Agreement, another arm of that MDT that will make rapid response of the US since their assets are already here in the Philippine waters. The US can easily call a coalition of forces if needed.

so Good Luck to your first shot

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

longyi said:


> *Chinese tourists sail to disputed islands*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The CPC is very business oriented, I must say.


9,000 yuan for the four-day voyage? crazy! who will visit the islands? corrupt CPC officials probably.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Malaya

*Chinese defense minister meets senior Philippine military officer*






Chinese State Councilor and Defense Minister Chang Wanquan (2nd R) meets with Philippine Defense Undersecretary Honorio Azcueta (2nd L) in Beijing, capital of China, April 28, 2013. (Xinhua/Wang Ye)


----------



## Viet

A Vietnamese is US Consulate General to Vietnam. He visits Hoang Sa (Spratlys) administration recently. Hope the Americans will support Vietnam to increase the pressure on the Chinese in the dispute.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Le



*US Consul General works with Hoang Sa (Spratlys) administration*


Updated : 4/26/2013 10:42:28 AM











(VOV) - A delegation of the *US Consulate General* led by Consul General Le Thanh An recently visited and held a working session with the Hoang Sa island district People&#8217;s Committee.

Dang Cong Ngu, Chairman of the Hoang Sa district People&#8217;s Committee, briefed his guests on the local administration&#8217;s operations and future development orientations. 

The US Consulate General voiced their support for peaceful settlement of *sovereign disputes *in the East Sea.

They stressed the need for close cooperation between concerned parties to ensure sovereignty, peace, stability, maritime security and freedom, as well as normal trade liberalisation in the East Sea, in line with international law, especially the 1982 UN Convention o the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS). 

The *Hoang Sa island district *was established in January 1997 under the management of the Danang municipal People&#8217;s Committee.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Malaya

*PH sovereignty based on Unclos, principles of international law*

*The Department of Foreign Affairs*






(_Editor&#8217;s Note: The following is the position paper from the Department of Foreign Affairs on the Philippine standoff with China at Panatag Shoal, also known as Bajo de Masinloc and Scarborough Shoal, in the West Philippine Sea_.)

Bajo de Masinloc is an integral part of the Philippine territory. It is part of the Municipality of Masinloc, Province of Zambales. It is located 124 nautical miles (220 kilometers) west of Zambales and is within the 200- nautical-mile (370 kilometers) exclusive economic zone (EEZ) and Philippine continental shelf.

A Philippine Navy surveillance aircraft, patrolling the area to enforce the Philippine Fisheries Code and marine environment laws, spotted eight Chinese fishing vessels anchored inside the Bajo de Masinloc (Panatag Shoal) on Sunday, April 8, 2012. On April 10, the Philippine Navy sent the BRP Gregorio del Pilar to the area. In accordance with established rules of engagement, an inspection team was dispatched and it reported finding large amounts of illegally collected corals, giant clams and live sharks in the compartments of the Chinese fishing vessels.

The actions of the Chinese fishing vessels are a serious violation of the Philippines&#8217; sovereignty and maritime jurisdiction. The poaching of endangered marine resources is a violation of the Fisheries Code and the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Flora and Fauna (CITES).

*Basis of sovereignty*

Bajo de Masinloc (international name, Scarborough Shoal) is not an island. Bajo de Masinloc is also not part of the Spratlys.

Bajo de Masinloc is a ring-shaped coral reef, which has several rocks encircling a lagoon. About five of these rocks are above water during high tide. Some of these rocks are about three meters high and can be seen above the water. The rest of the rocks and reefs are submerged during high tide.

Bajo de Masinloc&#8217;s chain of reefs and rocks is about 124 nautical miles (220 km) from the nearest coast of Luzon and approximately 472 nautical miles (850 km) from the nearest coast of China. Bajo de Masinloc is located approximately along latitude 15°08&#8217;N and longitude 117°45&#8217;E. The rocks of Bajo de Masinloc are situated north of the Spratlys.

Obviously then the rocks of Bajo de Masinloc are also within the 200 nautical mile EEZ and the 200 nautical mile continental shelf of the Philippines.

*Distinction*

A distinction has to be made between the rocks of Bajo de Masinloc and the larger body of water and continental shelf where the geological features are situated. The rights or nature of rights of the Philippines over Bajo de Masinloc are different from the rights it exercises over the larger body of water and continental shelf.

The Philippines exercises full sovereignty and jurisdiction over the rocks of Bajo de Masinloc, and sovereign rights over the waters and continental shelf where the rocks of Bajo de Masinloc are situated.

The basis of Philippine sovereignty and jurisdiction over the rocks of Bajo de Masinloc is distinct from that of its sovereign rights over the larger body of water and continental shelf.

*A. Public international law*

The rocks of Bajo de Masinloc are Philippine territory.

The basis of Philippine sovereignty and jurisdiction over the rocks is not premised on the cession by Spain of the Philippine archipelago to the United States under the Treaty of Paris. That the rocks of Bajo de Masinloc are not included or within the limits of the Treaty of Paris, as alleged by China, is therefore immaterial and of no consequence.

Philippine sovereignty and jurisdiction over the rocks is likewise not premised on proximity or the fact that the rocks are within its 200 nautical mile EEZ or continental shelf under the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (Unclos). Although the Philippines necessarily exercises sovereign rights over its EEZ and continental shelf, the reason why the rocks of Bajo de Masinloc are Philippine territory is anchored on other principles of public international law.

As decided in a number of cases by international courts or tribunals, most notably the Palmas Island Case, a mode for acquiring territorial ownership over a piece of real estate is effective exercise of jurisdiction. In the Palmas case, sovereignty over the Palmas Island was adjudged in favor of the Netherlands on the basis of &#8220;effective exercise of jurisdiction&#8221; although the island may have been historically discovered by Spain and historically ceded to the United States in the Treaty of Paris.

In the case of Bajo de Masinloc, the Philippines, since it gained independence, has exercised both effective occupation and effective jurisdiction over Bajo de Masinloc.

The name Bajo de Masinloc (which means Shallows of Masinloc or Masinloc Shoal) itself identifies the shoal as a particular political subdivision of the Philippine province of Zambales, known as Masinloc.

*Maps*

One of the earliest known and most accurate maps of the area, named Carta Hydrographical y Chorographica de las Yslas Filipinas by Fr. Pedro Murillo Velarde, SJ, and published in 1734, showed Bajo de Masinloc as part of Zambales.

The name Bajo de Masinloc was given to the shoal by the Spanish colonizers. In 1792, another map, drawn by the Alejandro Malaspina expedition and published in 1808 in Madrid, Spain, also showed Bajo de Masinloc as part of Philippine territory. This map showed the route of the Malaspina expedition to and around the shoal. It was reproduced in the Atlas of the 1939 Philippine Census.

The Mapa General, Islas Filipinas, Observatorio de Manila published in 1990 by the US Coast and Geodetic Survey, also showed Bajo de Masinloc as part of the Philippines.

Philippine flags have been erected on some of the islets of the shoal, including a flag raised on an 8.3-meter high flag pole in 1965 and another Philippine flag raised by Congressmen Roque Ablan and Jose Yap in 1997. In 1965, the Philippines built and operated a small lighthouse on one of the islets in the shoal. In 1992, the Philippine Navy rehabilitated the lighthouse and reported it to the International Maritime Organization for publication in the List of Lights (currently this lighthouse is not working).

Bajo de Masinloc was also used as target range by Philippine and US naval forces stationed in Subic Bay in Zambales. The Philippines&#8217; Department of Environment and Natural Resources together with the University of the Philippines has also been conducting scientific, topographic, and marine studies in the shoal. Filipino fishermen have always considered the shoal their fishing grounds because of its proximity to the coast of southwest Luzon.

*Archipelagic baselines*

In 2009, when the Philippines passed an amended Archipelagic Baselines Law fully consistent with Unclos, Bajo de Masinloc was classified under the &#8220;Regime of Islands&#8221; consistent with the Law of the Sea.

&#8220;Section 2. The baseline in the following areas over which the Philippines likewise exercises sovereignty and jurisdiction shall be determined as &#8220;Regime of Islands&#8221; under the Republic of the Philippines consistent with Article 121 of the Unclos:

a) The Kalayaan Island Group as constituted under Presidential Decree No. 1596; and

b) Bajo de Masinloc, also known as Scarborough Shoal.&#8221;

*Comments on Chinese claims*
*Question:*

But what about the historical claim of China over Bajo de Masinloc (Scarborough Shoal)? Does China have superior right over Bajo de Masinloc on the basis of its so-called historical claim? China is claiming Bajo de Masinloc based on historical arguments, claiming it to have been discovered by the Yuan Dynasty. China is also claiming that Bajo de Masinloc has been reflected in various official Chinese maps and has been named by China in various official documents.

*Answer:*

Chinese assertions based on historical claims must be substantiated by a clear historic title. It should be noted that under public international law, historical claims are not historical titles. A claim by itself, including historical claim, could not be a basis for acquiring a territory.

Under international law, the modes of acquiring a territory are: discovery, effective occupation, prescription, cession and accretion. Also, under public international law, for a historical claim to mature into a historical title, a mere showing of long usage is not enough.

Other criteria have to be satisfied, such as that the usage must be open, continuous, adverse or in the concept of an owner, peaceful and acquiesced by other states. Mere silence by other states to one&#8217;s claim is not acquiescence under international law. Acquiescence must be affirmative such that other states recognize the claim as a right on the part of the claimant that other states ought to respect as a matter of duty. There is no indication that the international community has acquiesced to China&#8217;s so-called historical claim.

Naming and placing on maps are also not bases in determining sovereignty. In international case law relating to questions of sovereignty and ownership of land features, names and maps are not significant factors in the determination of international tribunals&#8217; determination of sovereignty.

*Question:*

*What about China&#8217;s claims that Bajo de Masinloc is traditional fishing waters of Chinese fishermen?*

*Answer:*

Under international law, fishing rights are not a mode of acquiring sovereignty (or even sovereign rights) over an area. Neither could it be construed that the act of fishing by Chinese fishermen is a sovereign act of a state nor can it be considered a display of state authority. Fishing is an economic activity done by private individuals. For occupation to be effective there has to be clear demonstration of the intention and will of a state to act as sovereign and there has to be peaceful and continuous display of state authority, which the Philippines has consistently demonstrated.

Besides, when Unclos took effect, it has precisely appropriated various maritime zones to coastal states, eliminating so-called historical waters and justly appropriating the resources of the seas to coastal states to which the seas are appurtenant. &#8220;Traditional fishing rights&#8221; is in fact mentioned only in Article 51 of Unclos, which calls for archipelagic states to respect such rights, if such exist, in its archipelagic waters.

It should also be noted, that in this particular case, the activities of these so-called fishermen can be hardly described as fishing. The evidence culled by the Philippine Navy showed clearly that these are poaching, involving the harvesting of endangered marine species, which is illegal in the Philippines and illegal under international law, specifically the CITES.

*B. Basis of sovereign rights*

As earlier indicated, there is a distinction between the rocks of Bajo Masinloc and the waters around them. The question of ownership of the rocks is governed by the principles of public international law relating to modes for acquiring territories. On the other hand, the extent of its adjacent waters is governed by Unclos. The waters outside of the maritime area of Bajo de Masinloc are also governed by Unclos.

As noted, there are only about five rocks in Bajo de Masinloc that are above water during high tide. The rest are submerged during high tide. Accordingly, these rocks have only 12 nautical miles maximum territorial waters under Article 121 of Unclos. Since the Philippines has sovereignty over the rocks of Bajo de Masinloc, it follows that it has also sovereignty over their 12 nautical miles territorial waters.

*Question:*

But what about the waters outside the 12 nautical miles territorial waters of the rocks of Bajo de Masinloc, what is the nature of these waters including the continental shelves? Which state has sovereign rights over them?

*Answer:*

As noted, Bajo de Masinloc is located approximately at latitude 15°08&#8217;N and longitude 117°45&#8217;E. It is approximately 124 nautical miles off the nearest coast of Zambales. Clearly, the rocks of Bajo de Masinloc are within the 200 nautical miles EEZ and continental shelf of the Philippines.

Therefore, the waters and continental shelves outside of the 12 nautical miles territorial waters of the rocks of Bajo de Masinloc appropriately belong to the EEZ and continental shelf of the Philippines. As such, the Philippines exercises exclusive sovereign rights to explore and exploit the resources within these areas to the exclusion of other countries under Unclos. Part V of Unclos, specifically provides that the Philippines exercises exclusive sovereign rights to explore, exploit, conserve and manage resources whether living or nonliving, in this area. Although other states have the right of freedom of navigation over these areas, such rights could not be exercised to the detriment of the internationally recognized sovereign rights of the Philippines to explore and exploit the resources in its 200 nautical miles EEZ and continental shelf. To do otherwise would be in violation of international law, specifically Unclos.

Therefore, the current action of the Chinese surveillance vessels within the Philippine EEZ is obviously inconsistent with its right of freedom of navigation and in violation of the sovereign rights of the Philippines under Unclos. It must also be noted that the Chinese fishermen earlier apprehended by Philippine law enforcement agents may have poached not only in Bajo de Masinloc but likely also in the EEZ of the Philippines. Therefore, these poachers have violated the sovereign rights of the Philippines under Unclos.

*PH archeological vessel*

The Philippine National Museum has been undertaking an official marine archaeological survey in the vicinity of Bajo de Masinloc.
The archaeological survey is being conducted by the Philippine National Museum on board the Philippine-flag MY Saranggani.
Chinese maritime surveillance vessels have been harassing the MY Saranggani. The Philippines has strongly protested the harassments by the Chinese side. The actions by the Chinese vessels are in violation of the sovereign right and jurisdiction of the Philippines to conduct marine research or studies in its EEZ.

*Endangered species*

The Philippine Navy, during a routine sovereignty patrol, saw eight fishing vessels moored at Bajo de Masinloc on April 10. The Philippine side inspected the vessels and discovered that they were Chinese fishing vessels and on board were illegally obtained endangered corals and giant clams in violation of the Philippine Fisheries Code

The Philippines staunchly protects its marine environment from any form of illegal fishing and poaching. It is a state party to the CITES and Convention on Biological Diversity.

This illicit activity has also undermined the work of the Philippine government as a member of the Coral Triangle Initiative.

The coral colonies in Bajo de Masinloc have been in existence for centuries.

*Current situation*

The Philippines is committed to the process of consultations with China toward a peaceful and diplomatic solution to the situation.

As the Department of Foreign Affairs works toward a diplomatic solution, the Philippine Coast Guard is in the area and is continuing to enforce relevant Philippine laws.

PH sovereignty based on Unclos, principles of international law | Inquirer Global Nation


----------



## romia

It seems the phillipino here are apt to believe the US would join in to fight china for illigal possession of chinese island by ur 2 Country Philipino and Viet in Southern sea of China.What a group of idiot.
The US never do business at a loss.It hardly to imagine they would involve a risk of nuclear war with China just for the stolen islands.

Not to mention the others ,maybe only the Japanese dog will&#65292;and we will happily on present of all the people who are love peace and justice on earth to give them A devastating blow and perish them who launched the WWII and millions of innocent people(including a considerable amount of philipino ,and vietnamese as well.) been massacred by these Japanese bitches.so go on,Japanese bitches.

So pls go to bed ,and have a good US help dream ,hahahaha

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## romia

I would very likely to tell ur philipino and viet friends.
what the core policy to China by US govrn it to restrain the development of the chinese.Its by no means to them to involve a direct confrontation to China .

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Malaya

romia said:


> *It seems the phillipino here are apt to believe the US would join in to fight china for illigal possession of chinese island by ur 2 Country Philipino and Viet in Southern sea of China*.What a group of idiot.
> The US never do business at a loss.It hardly to imagine they would involve a risk of nuclear war with China just for the stolen islands.
> 
> Not to mention the others ,maybe only the Japanese dog will&#65292;and we will happily on present of all the people who are love peace and justice on earth to give them A devastating blow and perish them who launched the WWII and millions of innocent people(including a considerable amount of philipino ,and vietnamese as well.) been massacred by these Japanese bitches.so go on,Japanese bitches.
> 
> *So pls go to bed ,and have a good US help dream* ,hahahaha


You are making a severe error in your perception of the US-Filipino alliance and history. There is no other nation that owes its independence, culture, and history to the United States as the Filipino nation does.

Even your international legal experts know too well that we can invoke our Mutual Defense Treaty with the US even if only a vessel or aircraft is fired upon. What more if you fired and invade our island with military assets and civilian population? 

The US honors its obligations and would be forced to oblige and protect us. To not do so, would do irreparable harm to its position worldwide. Its commitment to other alliances (e.g. NATO) would be called into question. Political and military stability in South East Asia is shaken and the balance of power especially in Asia is no longer true. U.S. guarantees would lose their value and I don't think that will happen.

So if you think you have enough courage to invade our Pag-Asa or Thitu Island go ahead. 

Wish you luck


----------



## Malaya

romia said:


> I would very likely to tell ur philipino and viet friends.
> what the core policy to China by US govrn it to restrain the development of the chinese.Its by no means to them to involve a direct confrontation to China .


China says: "Philippines and Vietnam" to use &#8220;diplomatic wisdom&#8221; to resolve tensions in the West Philippine Sea," while you are maintaining your *"diplomatic greed"* in claiming the whole South China Sea. 

Do you expect the Vietnamese and the Filipinos just to say amen to your insinuation that you owned the whole Sea and islands by virtue of historic rights?

Ok Let's reverse the situation, if the Vietnamese and the Filipinos claim the sea lane from your shore up to the distance equivalent to what you Chinese claims what would you say? 

Tsk tsk Well truly, truly your country is a peace loving country. 

You love to take a piece of Philippines, piece of Vietnam, piece of Malaysia, piece of Japan and India.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Bad news from the ASEAN summit last week.

*ASEAN&#8217;s procrastination in the South China Sea*
Yeremia Lalisang, Jakarta | Opinion | Tue, April 30 2013, 10:59 AM


*A South China Sea discussion was expected to be the highlight of the 22nd ASEAN Summit in Bandar Seri Begawan last week, considering the increased assertiveness of both China and claimant states from Southeast Asia, but the discussion did not materialize.*

*The summit did not conclude with a strong statement on the issue, discouraging any future efforts to settle the dispute peacefully.*

*Scholars agree that ASEAN&#8211;China relations have never been better in the last 16 years. This is mainly a result of increased economic ties and the considerable growth in trade volume between the two parties.*

Such a phenomenon is one of the most important pillars of both China and ASEAN member states&#8217; economic growth. China is regarded as the new center of attraction, offering the member states wide-ranging flexibilities, fruitful economic relations and openness to multilateral frameworks that are significantly different from the US&#8211;Japan
alliance model.

*However, China&#8217;s engagement with ASEAN states has been continuously limited and filled with uncertainty. Until now, the region has not fallen within Beijing&#8217;s sphere of influence. In this regard, ASEAN has been successful in restraining China&#8217;s influence in the region. ASEAN has relentlessly engaged China through institutional involvements and multilateral frameworks.*

*Within such limitations, China&#8217;s objectives remain clear and consistent. Chinese officials aim at create a stable periphery that would contribute positively to its economic growth. The quest for a strong economy has encouraged China to offer flexibility and be more accommodating in its interactions with Southeast Asian states.*

*In doing so, China expects to counter the &#8220;China threat theory&#8221; that finds fertile ground as its economic and military capability continues to grow. As former premier Wen Jianbao once said, China should be viewed as a &#8220;friendly elephant&#8221;. Such an image will support China&#8217;s long-term interests as a potential superpower in the international system.*

______________________

The South China Sea would certainly be regarded by China as a strategic interest in its energy security framework.


*The image of a &#8220;friendly elephant&#8221;, however, fails to manifest in the case of South China Sea disputes. While both sides took the confidence-building measure of signing the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties*
to the South China Sea in 2002, ASEAN states have been haunted by China&#8217;s pattern of assertiveness in managing the territorial disputes in which it is involved.

The Taiwan Missile Crisis in the mid-1990s and the occupation of Mischief Reef in 1995 and 1998 demonstrated the way an assertive China tends to deal with territorial disputes.

*These examples suggest that it is even more plausible that a stronger China in the 21st century will use force as an instrument in the settlement of territorial disputes.*

As if confirming such a belief,* China declared in 2012 that the South China Sea was its &#8220;core interest&#8221;, meaning that China&#8217;s claim to the territory is non-negotiable.* Beijing seems willing to use military force to respond to any party who challenges the status quo.

China&#8217;s policies and behavior in managing the recent disputes will prove how strong Beijing&#8217;s commitment is to maintaining stability in the region. In other words, they will test the lower limit of Beijing&#8217;s interest in its interactions with ASEAN.

*The issue of national unity is frequently utilized by the nationalist faction in China&#8217;s domestic politics to push the government to be more assertive, which limits the flexibility of policymakers in Beijing. On the other hand, it is clear to them that such a move could be counterproductive to the country&#8217;s interests in advancing its national economy.*

This highlights the urgency for ASEAN to push China to make significant progress in addressing the territorial disputes in the South China Sea for at least three reasons.

*First, with regard to its slowing economic might, Beijing should be concerned with preventing any potential conflict on its periphery that could negatively impact its economic performance. In line with its significant role as a source of legitimacy, China&#8217;s economic development is still the priority of the Communist regime in Beijing.*

*Second, any non-cooperation measure leading to the failure of maintaining peace and stability in the region would allow other major powers, such as the US and Japan, to intensify their influence in the region, at the expense of Beijing&#8217;s leadership and position in the regional balance of power. Moreover, internationalizing the dispute is something that Beijing has always tried to avoid.*

*Finally, it would be better for ASEAN to accelerate its progress now before China grows even bigger, as its demand for energy will also increase to support its economic wheel. The South China Sea, with its potential energy reserves, would certainly be regarded by China as a strategic interest in its energy security framework.*

In its relations with ASEAN, the way China manages the South China Sea issue will showcase how China, as a great power, treats its neighbors. Assertiveness and inflexibility would only create a negative image of China, which is projected to play a more considerable role in global affairs in the future.

*On the other hand, how ASEAN proceeds in managing this dispute will show what kind of regional institution ASEAN is. Having failed to achieve any significant development last year in Phnom Penh with ASEAN unable to merge contending interests internally, less meaningful progress was made in Bandar Seri Begawan this year.*

With both internal and external limitations facing policymakers in Beijing, ASEAN still appears reluctant to issue the kind of strong statements necessary to show its commitment to making significant progress in managing the dispute.

This strategy of buying time, from the perspective of ASEAN&#8211;China relations, will not result in peaceful dispute settlement. China is continuing to grow larger both militarily and economically.

Any further delay in settling this dispute will only allow China to raise its bargaining power relative to ASEAN&#8217;s.

*When the situation arises in which ASEAN cannot catch up with China, that will be the time when peaceful dispute settlement is no longer plausible.*

_The writer is managing director of the ASEAN Study Center at the University of Indonesia&#8217;s (UI) school of social and political sciences in Depok, West Java._

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Fsjal

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Bad news from the ASEAN summit last week.
> 
> *ASEAN&#8217;s procrastination in the South China Sea*
> Yeremia Lalisang, Jakarta | Opinion | Tue, April 30 2013, 10:59 AM
> 
> 
> *A South China Sea discussion was expected to be the highlight of the 22nd ASEAN Summit in Bandar Seri Begawan last week, considering the increased assertiveness of both China and claimant states from Southeast Asia, but the discussion did not materialize.*
> 
> *The summit did not conclude with a strong statement on the issue, discouraging any future efforts to settle the dispute peacefully.*
> 
> *Scholars agree that ASEAN&#8211;China relations have never been better in the last 16 years. This is mainly a result of increased economic ties and the considerable growth in trade volume between the two parties.*
> 
> Such a phenomenon is one of the most important pillars of both China and ASEAN member states&#8217; economic growth. China is regarded as the new center of attraction, offering the member states wide-ranging flexibilities, fruitful economic relations and openness to multilateral frameworks that are significantly different from the US&#8211;Japan
> alliance model.
> 
> *However, China&#8217;s engagement with ASEAN states has been continuously limited and filled with uncertainty. Until now, the region has not fallen within Beijing&#8217;s sphere of influence. In this regard, ASEAN has been successful in restraining China&#8217;s influence in the region. ASEAN has relentlessly engaged China through institutional involvements and multilateral frameworks.*
> 
> *Within such limitations, China&#8217;s objectives remain clear and consistent. Chinese officials aim at create a stable periphery that would contribute positively to its economic growth. The quest for a strong economy has encouraged China to offer flexibility and be more accommodating in its interactions with Southeast Asian states.*
> 
> *In doing so, China expects to counter the &#8220;China threat theory&#8221; that finds fertile ground as its economic and military capability continues to grow. As former premier Wen Jianbao once said, China should be viewed as a &#8220;friendly elephant&#8221;. Such an image will support China&#8217;s long-term interests as a potential superpower in the international system.*
> 
> ______________________
> 
> The South China Sea would certainly be regarded by China as a strategic interest in its energy security framework.
> 
> 
> *The image of a &#8220;friendly elephant&#8221;, however, fails to manifest in the case of South China Sea disputes. While both sides took the confidence-building measure of signing the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties*
> to the South China Sea in 2002, ASEAN states have been haunted by China&#8217;s pattern of assertiveness in managing the territorial disputes in which it is involved.
> 
> The Taiwan Missile Crisis in the mid-1990s and the occupation of Mischief Reef in 1995 and 1998 demonstrated the way an assertive China tends to deal with territorial disputes.
> 
> *These examples suggest that it is even more plausible that a stronger China in the 21st century will use force as an instrument in the settlement of territorial disputes.*
> 
> As if confirming such a belief,* China declared in 2012 that the South China Sea was its &#8220;core interest&#8221;, meaning that China&#8217;s claim to the territory is non-negotiable.* Beijing seems willing to use military force to respond to any party who challenges the status quo.
> 
> China&#8217;s policies and behavior in managing the recent disputes will prove how strong Beijing&#8217;s commitment is to maintaining stability in the region. In other words, they will test the lower limit of Beijing&#8217;s interest in its interactions with ASEAN.
> 
> *The issue of national unity is frequently utilized by the nationalist faction in China&#8217;s domestic politics to push the government to be more assertive, which limits the flexibility of policymakers in Beijing. On the other hand, it is clear to them that such a move could be counterproductive to the country&#8217;s interests in advancing its national economy.*
> 
> This highlights the urgency for ASEAN to push China to make significant progress in addressing the territorial disputes in the South China Sea for at least three reasons.
> 
> *First, with regard to its slowing economic might, Beijing should be concerned with preventing any potential conflict on its periphery that could negatively impact its economic performance. In line with its significant role as a source of legitimacy, China&#8217;s economic development is still the priority of the Communist regime in Beijing.*
> 
> *Second, any non-cooperation measure leading to the failure of maintaining peace and stability in the region would allow other major powers, such as the US and Japan, to intensify their influence in the region, at the expense of Beijing&#8217;s leadership and position in the regional balance of power. Moreover, internationalizing the dispute is something that Beijing has always tried to avoid.*
> 
> *Finally, it would be better for ASEAN to accelerate its progress now before China grows even bigger, as its demand for energy will also increase to support its economic wheel. The South China Sea, with its potential energy reserves, would certainly be regarded by China as a strategic interest in its energy security framework.*
> 
> In its relations with ASEAN, the way China manages the South China Sea issue will showcase how China, as a great power, treats its neighbors. Assertiveness and inflexibility would only create a negative image of China, which is projected to play a more considerable role in global affairs in the future.
> 
> *On the other hand, how ASEAN proceeds in managing this dispute will show what kind of regional institution ASEAN is. Having failed to achieve any significant development last year in Phnom Penh with ASEAN unable to merge contending interests internally, less meaningful progress was made in Bandar Seri Begawan this year.*
> 
> With both internal and external limitations facing policymakers in Beijing, ASEAN still appears reluctant to issue the kind of strong statements necessary to show its commitment to making significant progress in managing the dispute.
> 
> This strategy of buying time, from the perspective of ASEAN&#8211;China relations, will not result in peaceful dispute settlement. China is continuing to grow larger both militarily and economically.
> 
> Any further delay in settling this dispute will only allow China to raise its bargaining power relative to ASEAN&#8217;s.
> 
> *When the situation arises in which ASEAN cannot catch up with China, that will be the time when peaceful dispute settlement is no longer plausible.*
> 
> _The writer is managing director of the ASEAN Study Center at the University of Indonesia&#8217;s (UI) school of social and political sciences in Depok, West Java._



I didn't know the summit was last week. Anyway, it shows us that ASEAN is not strong enough, even if we are united. Anyway, it is too late, since China is growing fast, and even united, we might not see a settlement in the dispute.


----------



## EastSea

romia said:


> It seems the phillipino here are apt to believe the US would join in to fight china for illigal possession of chinese island by ur 2 Country Philipino and Viet in Southern sea of China.What a group of idiot.
> The US never do business at a loss.It hardly to imagine they would involve a risk of nuclear war with China just for the stolen islands.
> 
> Not to mention the others ,maybe only the Japanese dog will&#65292;and we will happily on present of all the people who are love peace and justice on earth to give them A devastating blow and perish them who launched the WWII and millions of innocent people(including a considerable amount of philipino ,and vietnamese as well.) been massacred by these Japanese bitches.so go on,Japanese bitches.
> 
> So pls go to bed ,and have a good US help dream ,hahahaha







romia said:


> I would very likely to tell ur philipino and viet friends.
> what the core policy to China by US govrn it to restrain the development of the chinese.Its by no means to them to involve a direct confrontation to China .



Paracel and Spratly belong to Vietnam from long time. Chinese robbed our Islands 1956 and 1974, dirty aggressors, don't open big mouth to bullying us.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## EastSea

self deleted.


----------



## walle

ASEAN isnt united in the first place, economic interests trumps all. Xi jinping at the recent baoao forums told the world that china will be putting a 10 trillion usd pie for people to compete for within the next few years, 400million Chinese will travel abroad and 500 billion worth of Chinese investments. It was a stern message to all the countries around china, warm relations with china will ensure you get a slice but atagonise china at your own expense.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Malaya

*Intl arbitration panel ready to hear PH case against China*
By Tarra Quismundo
Philippine Daily Inquirer







*Judge Shunji Yanai, president of the International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea, has appointed the last three members of the panel of five international arbitrators that would hear the Philippines case against Chinas claims in the West Philippine Sea, the Department of Foreign Affairs*

*MANILA, PhilippinesThe panel of five international arbitrators that would hear the Philippines case against Chinas claims in the West Philippine Sea (South China Sea) has been completed, the Department of Foreign Affairs (DFA) said *

DFA spokesman Raul Hernandez said that Judge Shunji Yanai, president of the International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea (Itlos), had appointed the last three members of the panel.

That means the case is moving and, as expected, we are hoping that this case that we filed in the tribunal will proceed as soon as possible, said Hernandez in a press briefing.

In a letter dated April 24, Yanai informed Solicitor General Francis Jardeleza, head of the Philippine legal team pursuing the case, that the panel had been completed.

The newly appointed arbitrators are Judge Chris Pinto (Sri Lanka), who will serve as panel president, and Itlos judges Jean-Pierre Cot (France) and Alfred Soons (The Netherlands).

In March, Yanai appointed Polish Itlos Judge Stanislaw Pawlak to join his fellow Judge Rudiger Wolfrum (Germany) in the panel. The Philippines nominated Wolfrum to the panel upon filing its case on Jan. 22.

The Philippines filed the case against China in an ad hoc arbitral panel in hopes of halting its incursions into established Philippine maritime borders in the West Philippine Sea. The move also sought to invalidate Chinas nine-dash line claim in the waters, which the Philippines asserts encroaches on its exclusive economic zone.

China has rejected the proceedings, citing indisputable sovereignty over the potentially resource-rich territories. The process will, however, continue even without the participation of China, as stipulated in the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (Unclos).

The Itlos president took on the task of completing the panel upon Chinas refusal to take part in the proceedings. Parties involved are supposed to nominate their panel members.

The five-member arbitral tribunal will organize itself and establish its own rules. They will establish whether they have jurisdiction to hear the case, said Hernandez.

*We are very confident that this will be taken up by the tribunal and that the tribunal will award us as far as our maritime entitlements in the West Philippine Sea is concerned and declare that Chinas nine-dash line claim has no validity as far as international law and Unclos is concerned,* he said.





*Vietnam Protests Against China Tourism Activities in Paracels*
April 30, 2013

By Nguyen Pham Muoi

*HANOI--Vietnam has voiced objections against China for carrying out a number of tourist activities in Hoang Sa archipelago, also known as the Paracels, including opening a Xinhua bookstore on Phu Lam Island and preparing for a fishing contest in the area, a Vietnamese Ministry of Foreign Affairs spokesman said Tuesday*.

Asserting Vietnam's indisputable rights over the Hoang Sa archipelago, spokesman Luong Thanh Nghi said the moves by China have "seriously violated the sovereignty of Vietnam, acting against the basic principles guiding the settlement of sea-related issues between Vietnam and China as well as against the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea between the ASEAN and China, raising tensions and complicating the situation in the East Sea."

Vietnam made the statement in response to a Xinhua report on Sunday about the first group of about 200 Chinese tourists to the archipelago. The activity is part of China's plan to develop tourism in islands in the Paracels. Xinhua said that China will organize more tours depending on the outcome of the first trip.

As Hanoi requested China stop the alleged sovereignty violations, Danang city also protested the Chinese moves. The Paracel archipelago, which is about 170 miles offshore from the central city of Danang, is under the municipal administration.

"Bringing Chinese tourists to the Hoang Sa violates the sovereignty of Vietnam, causing discontent for the authority and people of Danang. We strongly object those violations and request China to promptly put an end to organizing tours and other activities in Hoang Sa," said Danang Mayor Van Huu Chien.

Vietnam Protests Against China Tourism Activities in Paracels - WSJ.com

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Malaya

*Sino sea tour: Palace clueless on the issue*
By Joyce Pangco Panares | Posted on Apr. 30, 2013






A Malacañang official said Monday the government will* &#8220;burn the bridge when we get there&#8221;* when asked on the possibility that the Chinese may send tourist ships to the areas within the country&#8217;s 200-nautical-mile zone in the highly-disputed South China Sea (West Philippine Sea).

*&#8220;As long as they don&#8217;t enter our sovereign [waters],&#8221;* presidential spokesman Edwin Lacierda said.

*&#8220;Let&#8217;s burn the bridge when we get there. They are not there (Philippine territory) yet.&#8221;*

The Palace&#8217;s reaction came amid reports that Beijing had sent tourist ships to Paracel Islands, one of three major islands in the South China Sea which is also being contested by Vietnam.

Vietnam and China have a longstanding territorial row over the Paracels.

Last month, Hanoi accused a Chinese vessel of firing at one of its fishing boats which had sailed in disputed waters in the area.

The report on the Chinese tour said that some 100 passengers paid at least 7,000 yuan or $1,135 for each ticket for the four-day voyage.

&#8220;China&#8217;s Xisha tourism has nothing to do with its neighboring countries,&#8221; Ju Hailong, a research fellow at the Institute of Southeast Asian Studies at Jinan University, told reporters.

&#8220;Those who want to manipulate China&#8217;s moves to make trouble are not admirers of international law and regional security,&#8221; he added.

Earlier, Foreign Affairs Secretary Albert del Rosario admitted that China was trying to establish a &#8220;de facto occupation&#8221; in the Bajo de Masinloc or Scarborough Shoal.

At present, there are three Chinese boats in the shoal &#8211; two maritime surveillance ships and one Fisheries Law Enforcement Command vessel.

There have also been reports of Filipino fishermen complaining that they have been barred by the Chinese boats from plying the disputed waters.

Del Rosario admitted that a military response was not an option at this point as the country&#8217;s legal experts have advised the government to focus on its arbitration case filed before the United Nations International Tribunal on the Law of the Seas.

The Hamburg-based ITLOS has already completed the five-man arbitration panel, and will decide by July if it has jurisdiction over the case lodged by Manila questioning Beijing&#8217;s nine-dash line policy claiming the entire West Philippine Sea.

Del Rosario said the Association of Southeast Asian Nations is hopeful that China would be cooperative in drafting of a binding Code of Conduct that will govern maritime disputes in the area.

Meanwhile, administration candidates reiterated their call for the Chinese government to respect international laws of the sea in dealing with the territorial disputes, stressing that a peaceful solution to the crisis should prevail as a top priority of all nation-claimants.

Presidential cousin Bam Aquino, Aurora Rep. Juan Edgardo Angara, re-electionist Sen. Francis Escudero and Grace Poe, of the Liberal Party-led Team PNoy said the Chinese government should stop bullying the country with its continued invasion of islands in the resource-rich sea that are being contested by countries which have their own separate territorial claims.

They also backed the government&#8217;s position seeking a UN ruling on dispute.

&#8220;We support President Benigno Aquino III&#8217;s position to take up the issue of territorial disputes with China to the United Nations. We reiterate that this matter should be resolved by using all available diplomatic channels, and with only the best interests of the Filipino people in mind,&#8221; Aquino said.

Angara said China should join all claimants in pursuing all diplomatic means to end the disputes and consider a possible joint exploration of the islands believed to be rich in resources, especially oil reserves.

&#8220;We appeal to Chinese government to pursue all diplomatic ways in finding solution to the territorial disputes and cooperate to the possibility that all claimants may opt to enter into a joint exploration for the benefit of everybody,&#8221; Angara said.

Escudero said the Aquino government did the right thing in bringing the matter before the United Nations.

&#8220;The fact that China is complaining is best proof that what PNoy did is in the best interest of the country, not of China,&#8221; Escudero said, after China accused the country of trying to legalize its occupation of islands in the West Philippine Sea by going to UN.

Poe agreed with Escudero, as she said that China should not refuse to settle the disputes before the UN body as a responsible nation adhering to peaceful and joint exploration of the West Philippine Sea for the benefits of all nation-claimants.

&#8220;I support the position of our government to bring the issue of the West Philippine Sea to the United Nations. I believe that both the Philippines and China are responsible members of the community of nations, and the United Nations is a venue where disagreements can be settled in a peaceful and civilized manner,&#8221; Poe said.

&#8220;We are all counting on China to do its utmost in working with us. China should be concerned of its reputation as a nation that abides by the rule of law and should manifest a sense of being a responsible member of the community of nations,&#8221; he said. With Maricel V. Cruz

Sino sea tour: Palace clueless on the issue - Manila Standard Today




*ASEAN, Chinese FMs to meet over S China Sea disputes*
2013-04-29 
JAKARTA - Secretary-General of Association of South East Asian Nations (ASEAN) Le Luong Minh said on Monday that foreign ministers of ASEAN member countries will have a meeting with their Chinese counterpart in Beijing to further discuss peaceful settlement on territorial disputes in the South China Sea.

"The meeting between ASEAN foreign affairs ministers and Chinese foreign affairs minister has been scheduled in August or September this year in Beijing," Minh told Xinhua on the sidelines of a media briefing on the results of the recent high-profile ASEAN Summit held in Bandar Seri Begawan, Brunei.

He said that during the summit, all ASEAN members agreed to assign their foreign ministries to continue to work actively with China on the way forward for early conclusion of a Code of Conduct in the South China Sea (COC) on the basis of consensus. 

In his briefing, Minh said that ASEAN leaders reaffirmed the importance of peace, stability and maritime security in the region. They also underscored the importance of the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea (DOC), ASEAN's six-point Principles on the South China Sea and the Joint Statement of the 10th anniversary of the DOC.

"In this regard, we reaffirmed the collective commitments under the DOC to ensuring the peaceful resolution of dispute in accordance with universally recognized principles of international law, including the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea without resorting to the threat or use of force, while exercising self-restraint in the conduct of activities," Minh said in the briefing.

He added that ASEAN is looking forward to continued engagement with China in implementing the DOC in a full and effective manner, including through mutually agreed joint cooperative activities and projects.

ASEAN, Chinese FMs to meet over S China Sea disputes |Politics |chinadaily.com.cn

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Malaya

*Phl Navy chief slams Chinese maneuvers in disputed sea*
By Jose Katigbak, STAR Washington Bureau (The Philippine Star)

*WASHINGTON &#8211; Philippine Navy chief Vice Admiral Jose Luis Alano said Chinese naval maneuvers in the West Philippine Sea (South China Sea) and use of non-military maritime vessels way beyond its coastlines to advance sovereignty claims to most of the sea were both &#8220;aggressive and excessive.&#8221;*

Alano, who was appointed Flag Officer in Command of the Philippine Navy last December, met with Admiral Jonathan Greenert, chief of US Naval Operations, at the Pentagon on Thursday to discuss the security situation in the South China Sea and navy-to-navy issues.

News reports from China said the PLA Navy dispatched a large contingent of ships to circumnavigate the South China Sea last month, a maneuver likened to marking Chinese territory.

Beijing&#8217;s claim to the South China Sea is based on its so-called nine-dash map which shows a U-shaped area encompassing most of the sea, including territories claimed by the Philippines, Vietnam, Brunei, Malaysia and Taiwan.

Alano will travel on Friday to North Charleston, South Carolina to inspect the second of two Coast Guard cutters that the Philippines has acquired from the US.

The 378-foot Hamilton-class vessel Dallas, rechristened BRP Ramon Alcaraz, is in the final stages of refurbishing and refitting and will soon join the BRP Gregorio del Pilar, the first US Coast Guard cutter acquired by Manila in 2011 for duty in the West Philippine Sea.

Alcaraz was officially handed over to the Philippines in May 2012 and should have been operating in Philippine waters by now.

But unexpected technical problems and upgrades on the ship have caused some delays and Alano said he expected the Alcaraz to set sail for the Philippines around the third week of June.

He said Alcaraz has been fitted with two new secondary guns &#8211; fully automated Mk 38 25mm bushmaster cannons &#8211; and a modern radar system. The Gregorio del Pilar will be fitted with similar new cannons.

A complement of 88 Filipino officers and crew under the command of Capt. Ernesto Baldovino have been living aboard the Alcaraz while it has been undergoing repairs to familiarize themselves with all the technical, mechanical and computerized aspects of the ship.

They will be joined by a six-member technical working group including training evaluation experts scheduled to arrive from Manila next month to give the vessel and crew the final go ahead to cross the Pacific to its new home in the Philippines.

In an interview with The STAR on his arrival in Washington on Wednesday, Alano said the prestige of the Philippine Navy was on the rise because of the acquisition of new firepower and the due recognition it was receiving from the government and the public.

Morale was high, more graduates of the Philippine Military Academy were opting for naval careers and the service was attracting more interest from recruits with technical and computer skills, he said. 

The Philippines last year expressed an interest in acquiring a third Hamilton class Coast Guard ship but is not now actively pursuing it.

Alano said given the current exigencies to create a credible maritime defense force, interest has shifted to purchasing new vessels and helicopters to extend the range of these vessels.

He said the Philippines was looking at proposals from several countries for two new 2,000-ton frigates with full surface and anti-air and anti-submarine capabilities.

It was also interested in acquiring strategic sealift vessels to give the Navy the capability to transport heavy cargo and large numbers of troops.

The Philippines was also in negotiations for the acquisition of three AW109 lightweight helicopters built by the Anglo-Italian manufacturer AgustaWestland which can be used for medevac (medical evacuation), search-and-rescue and military roles.

&#8220;We should receive them by next year,&#8221; Alano said.

Additionally, he said the Navy has received six Philippine-made multi-purpose attack craft and more are being programmed for acquisition.

http://www.philstar.com/headlines/2...vy-chief-slams-chinese-maneuvers-disputed-sea

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Viet

romia said:


> I would very likely to tell ur philipino and *viet *friends.
> what the core policy to China by* US govrn* it to restrain the development of the chinese.Its by no means to them to involve a direct confrontation to China .


Our army is good enough to stop any venture from greedy China, be sure!



walle said:


> *ASEAN *isnt united in the first place, economic interests trumps all. Xi jinping at the recent baoao forums told the world that china will be putting a 10 trillion usd pie for people to compete for within the next few years, 400million Chinese will travel abroad and 500 billion worth of Chinese investments. It was a stern message to all the countries around china, warm relations with china will ensure you get a slice but *atagonise *china at your own expense.


according to your logic, all nations around China should give up their territories if they want to benefit trades and investments with China.

What a retard!



Fsjal said:


> I didn't know the summit was last week. Anyway, it shows us that ASEAN is not strong enough, even if we are united. Anyway, it is too late, since China is growing fast, and even united, we might not see a settlement in the dispute.


Maybe you can stop your mouth for a while. That would help all of us.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## auspice

China is the modern evil nation of the world.

LIES, CRUEL, DECEITS, TOXIC, BULLY, HOLLOW THREATS, SUB-STANDARD, FAKE, DEFECTIVE, BACKWARD CIVILIZATION, MELAMINE, FETUS, MERCURY, LEAD, POISONOUS etc. 

These are some how to best describe China.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Psyops

auspice said:


> China is the modern evil nation of the world.
> 
> LIES, CRUEL, DECEITS, TOXIC, BULLY, HOLLOW THREATS, SUB-STANDARD, FAKE, DEFECTIVE, BACKWARD CIVILIZATION, MELAMINE, FETUS, MERCURY, LEAD, POISONOUS etc.
> 
> These are some how to best describe China.



Now go look in the mirror and you will find all those words apply to tiny Philippines and Vietnam. Go on kiddo.


----------



## HongWu

auspice said:


> China is the modern evil nation of the world.
> 
> LIES, CRUEL, DECEITS, TOXIC, BULLY, HOLLOW THREATS, SUB-STANDARD, FAKE, DEFECTIVE, BACKWARD CIVILIZATION, MELAMINE, FETUS, MERCURY, LEAD, POISONOUS etc.
> 
> These are some how to best describe China.


Is that the homework your grade 3 teacher assigned?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

A new spy satellite is set to be in space being capable to monitor all activities in the SC Sea.


Wednesday, May 1, 2013
*Astrium is set to deliver Vietnam&#8217;s first Earth observation satellite*

The Vietnamese satellite VNREDSat-1, built by Astrium, is scheduled for launch from Kourou on 03 May. Astrium also built the satellite *ground control segment and the image receiving and processing stations in Vietnam.*(photos : hanoimoi)





_(Photo: VNREDSat-1: Earth observation optical satellite system for Vietnam - Space Programme | Astrium)_

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Malaya

*The judges of the nine-dash lines*
By Atty. Harry Roque Jr. | Posted on May. 02, 2013






The arbitration initiated by the Philippines against China impugning the validity of Chinas nine-dash lines appear to be on track. Last week, pursuant to the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea, the Japanese president of the International Tribunal on the Law of the Sea (ITLOS) completed the five-man tribunal that will rule on the Philippines arbitral claims. Initially, the Philippines appointed its nominee to the panel, the German Judge at the ITLOS, Professor Rudiger Wolfrum. Later, the ITLOS president appointed a Polish academic to act as Chinas arbitrator to the panel, Mr. Stanislaw Pawlak. Last week, the three remaining arbitrators were appointed: Mr. Jean-Pierre Cot of France, Mr. Chris Pinto of Sri Lanka, and Mr. Alfred Soons of the Netherlands.

A jurist once remarked that the law is what the Judges say it is. This means that while the Philippines has claimed that Chinas nine-dash lines is contrary to the UNCLOS, the five-man tribunal will be the sole judge of whether this is in fact the case. Before they can decide the issue on the merits, they have first to rule whether the Philippines submissions are covered by the compulsory and binding dispute procedure under UNCLOS; that is, that it involves issues relating to application and interpretation of the Convention; and that the issues are not covered by any of Chinas reservations, to wit: disputes involving maritime delimitation; military activities, including military activities by government vessels and aircraft engaged in non-commercial service; and disputes concerning law enforcement activities in regard to the exercise of sovereign rights or jurisdiction.

Since this five-man tribunal will rule on whether China can treat the South China Sea as its lake,a lot hinges on who these appointed arbitrators are. Fortunately, in an effort perhaps to convince China that the Tribunal will arrive at the correct decision, the ITLOS President, despite the pending maritime disputes existing between his own state of Japan and China, appointed perhaps the most qualified arbitrators to rule on the issues of both jurisdiction and the merits.

Here is a short summary of who these arbitrators are:

MR. CHRIS PINTO  Member of the Sri Lanka bar and Barrister at the Inner temple, London. Graduate of University of Sri Lanka (Peradeniya), LL.B; and University of Cambridge: LL.M (International Law). Honorary Ll. D from University of Colombo (Sri Lanka). Former .Legal Officer, International Atomic Energy Agency, Vienna. (1960-1963); Attorney, World Bank, Washington, D.C. (1963-1967) The Legal Adviser, Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Sri Lanka. (1967-1977) Member, Sri Lanka Delegation to the U.N. Conference on the Law of Treaties, Vienna. (1968-1969)Ambassador of Sri Lanka to Germany and Austria. (1977-1982)Member and Chairman, U.N. International Law Commission, Geneva.(1973-1982) ;Member (later Chairman), Sri Lankan Delegation, Third U.N. Conference on the Law of the Sea. (1973-1982) Secretary-General, Iran-United States Claims Tribunal, The Hague. (1982 to present) Secretary-General, Iran-United States Claims Tribunal.

Member (Sri Lanka), Permanent Court of Arbitration, The Hague.Alternate Member (Sri Lanka), International Court of Arbitration of the International Chamber of Commerce, Paris.Sole arbitrator in dispute between Singapore firm and Sri Lanka State Timber Corporation (Permanent Court of Arbitration); President of Five Member Tribunal in marine environmental dispute Between Malaysia and Singapore. (Under Annex VII of the UNCLOS).

Source: ÖÐ¹ú¹ú¼ÊÃ³Ò×ÖÙ²ÃÎ¯Ô±»á»ªÄÏ·Ö»á

JUDGE JEAN-PIERRE COT  Member of the Tribunal (ITLOS) since 1 October 2002; re-elected as from 1 October 2011; President of the Chamber for Marine Environment Disputes 2008-2011. Licence en droit, Docteur en droit public, Paris Law Faculty (19551965); Agrégé des facultés de droit et des sciences économiques (1966). Professor of public and international law and Dean, University of Amiens (19661969); Professor of public and international law, University of Paris-I (Panthéon-Sorbonne) (19691998); Emeritus Professor, University of Paris-I (1999present); Associate Research Fellow, Université Libre de Bruxelles (1999present); Counsel and Advocate in a number of cases before the International Court of Justice: Frontier Dispute (Burkina Faso/Republic of Mali), Territorial Dispute (Libyan Arab Jamahiriya/Chad), Kasikili/Sedudu Islands (Botswana/Namibia), Armed activities on the territory of the Congo (Democratic Republic of the Congo v. Burundi), Land and Maritime Boundary between Cameroon and Nigeria (Cameroon v. Nigeria), Sovereignty over Pulau Litigan and Pulau Sipadan (Indonesia/Malaysia); Member of an arbitral tribunal of the International Chamber of Commerce; Counsel and advocate, arbitral tribunal, France/UNESCO; President of an arbitral tribunal established within the framework of the European Development Fund; Judge ad hoc, International Court of Justice, Maritime Delimitation in the Black Sea (Romania v. Ukraine),Aerial Herbicide Spraying (Ecuador v. Colombia), Territorial and Maritime Dispute (Nicaragua v. Colombia) and Temple of Preah Vihear, Interpretation (Cambodia v. Thailand).

Source: www.itlos.org: Judge Jean-Pierre Cot

MR.ALFRED H.A.SOONS,

Studied law at Utrecht University, The Netherlands, followed by postgraduate studies in international law at the University of Washington (Seattle, USA) and Cambridge University (UK). He obtained a PhD-degree at Utrecht University in 1982. Professor of public international law and director of the Netherlands Institute for the Law of the Sea (NILOS) at Utrecht University in 1987. Acted as counsel and arbitrator he has been involved in international litigation at the International Court of Justice and arbitral tribunals.

The judges of the nine-dash lines - Manila Standard Today


----------



## Malaya

*Foreign Affairs Secretary Albert del Rosario* said core issue in the maritime dispute is Beijing's claim *"that they have indisputable ownership of the entire South China Sea."*

*He said that once the arbitral tribunal organizes itself and establishes its rules, it will need to determine whether it has jurisdiction over the case. "After they do that, then they are ready to judge the merits of the case,"* he said.

Del Rosario said the Philippines has repeatedly told Beijing that the West Philippine Sea is not the sum total of Philippine relations with China, adding that arbitration is a peaceful and friendly means of settling the dispute.

*"I was explaining that for China, it is a chance to clarify their maritime entitlements. For the Philippines, it is a chance to demonstrate what is ours in accordance with international law and to be able to define our fishing rights, our rights to our natural resources and the right to enforce our laws,"* he said.

*"For all of the other nations in this community of nations, it removes the threat of not having freedom of navigation. That's what's good about this arbitartion. Win or lose, we can have that expectation,"* he added.


----------



## Viet

*Vietnam Su-30MK2 patrol the Spratlys*

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## BoXilai

Viet said:


> A new spy satellite is set to be in space being capable to monitor all activities in the SC Sea.
> 
> 
> Wednesday, May 1, 2013
> *Astrium is set to deliver Vietnams first Earth observation satellite*
> 
> The Vietnamese satellite VNREDSat-1, built by Astrium, is scheduled for launch from Kourou on 03 May. Astrium also built the satellite *ground control segment and the image receiving and processing stations in Vietnam.*



Such a good news. I have heard this plan a long time ago.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## USAHawk785

Its applaud-able that the Philippines chose the continuity of its foreign policy prefers diplomacy to forward military policy. It is to the best interest of affected parties in the South China Sea to maintain the freedom of navigation at the same time respect the territorial waters of affected nations as proscribed by UNCLOS.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

As always Indonesia is call upon to fix the problems . While the rest of "them" bickers like old fishwives. 


> *China closer to South China Sea Code of Conduct, Marty says*
> Bagus BT Saragih, The Jakarta Post, Jakarta | Headlines | Fri, May 03 2013, 9:43 AM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Money talks: China&#8217;s Foreign Minister Wang Yi (right) addresses the press in Jakarta on Thursday, while Coordinating Economic Minister Hatta Rajasa looks on. (JP/R. Berto Wedhatama)_
> 
> Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi met with his Indonesian counterpart Marty Natalegawa in Jakarta on Thursday as part of his six-day ASEAN tour, a move believed to be part of China&#8217;s attempt to regain its diplomatic grip within the Southeast Asian grouping.
> 
> *At the joint press conference held after the meeting, Marty applauded his Chinese counterpart saying the Asian superpower had shown indication that it agreed to pursue a peaceful solution to the territorial disputes in the resource-rich South China Sea.*
> 
> *&#8220;Mr. Wang Yi and I have just agreed to push the discussion of the South China Sea CoC [Code of Conduct] through the ASEAN-China Working Group mechanism,&#8221; Marty said.*
> 
> Wang, echoed Marty&#8217;s statement, saying China would always support efforts to settle disputes in the South China Sea through consultation with relevant countries.
> 
> *&#8220;China will do its best to maintain peace and stability in the area. This will not change,&#8221; he said. &#8220;China&#8217;s relationship with Indonesia is one of our most important international ties because it covers very wide fields.&#8221;*
> 
> *Indonesia, the biggest economy in Southeast Asia*, was the second country visited by Wang after Thailand in this first foreign trip since his appointment in March. His next destinations are Singapore and Brunei Darussalam.
> 
> Wang&#8217;s decision to visit ASEAN countries first led analysts to posit that China is concerned with renewing its relationship with Southeast Asian nations, particularly with influential powers like Indonesia.
> 
> Wang&#8217;s tour to ASEAN countries resembled the so-called &#8220;shuttle diplomacy&#8221; carried out by Marty, immediately after the ASEAN Ministerial Meeting in Phnom Penh, Cambodia, in July 2012, failed to issue a joint communiqué for the first time in the grouping&#8217;s 45-year history.
> 
> *Then ASEAN&#8217;s chair, Cambodia, which was considered by many as an ally to China, refused to have the South China Sea issue mentioned in the communiqué.*
> 
> *Marty then volunteered to be a troubleshooter by visiting his counterparts in the Philippines, Vietnam, Cambodia and Singapore, which resulted in ASEAN&#8217;s Six-Point Principles on the South China Sea.*
> 
> Wang&#8217;s current trip was made following the ASEAN 22nd summit in Bandar Seri Begawan, Brunei Darussalam, last month, which many considered to be a success particularly on the issue of the territorial disputes.
> 
> Observers said ASEAN managed to come together in the summit, and moved on from the Phnom Penh fiasco.
> 
> *Hikmahanto Juwana, an international law expert from the University of Indonesia, said China would always rely on Indonesia to deal with ASEAN.*
> 
> *&#8220;Indonesia has always been important to China, not only because it is the biggest economy in the region, but also because Indonesia is not one of the South China Sea claimants. Its power and neutrality has always made all relevant parties to give attention to any of Indonesia&#8217;s moves,&#8221; Hikmahanto said.*
> 
> Later on Thursday, Wang also held a meeting with Coordinating Economic Minister Hatta Rajasa. The two discussed plans to expand trade and investment between the two countries.
> 
> *According to the Trade Ministry, Indonesia-China trade volume in 2012 reached US$51 billion with a deficit of $7.7 billion at the Indonesian side. The volume represented a 21.4 percent increase from $49 billion in 2011.*
> 
> *In the conference, Wang also disclosed about China&#8217;s plan to open a consular service in Denpasar, Bali.*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Malaya

USAHawk785 said:


> Its applaud-able that the Philippines chose the continuity of its foreign policy prefers diplomacy to forward military policy. *It is to the best interest of affected parties in the South China Sea to maintain the freedom of navigation at the same time respect the territorial waters of affected nations as proscribed by UNCLOS.*


I agree. Also, territorial claims are clearly defined under International Law. 

Both Philippines and China are signatory to the law. So, let the court determine what rightfully belongs to each country.


----------



## VietHome

I hope Philippines gains more traction in this case. Beijing's urgent move to visit four ASEAN countries proves that they are shaking their boots. After all, they know China will lose in a fair court. No amount of rationale can explain away blatant robbery.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Malaya

VietHome said:


> I hope Philippines gains more traction in this case. Beijing's urgent move to visit four ASEAN countries proves that they are shaking their boots. *After all, they know China will lose in a fair court. No amount of rationale can explain away blatant robbery.*


When someone refuses to go to court, it is because they are either guilty, or their case is weak or just fiction





Well even a five year old child can easily see China's claim as ridiculous. They know they will embarrass themselves trying to defend their ludicrous nine-dash idiot line claim


----------



## Malaya

*ASEAN Summit in Brunei Finds More Common Ground*
By Luke Hunt

May 2, 2013






At the latest summit of the Association of South East Asian Nations (ASEAN) in Brunei leaders provided a refreshing change to the infighting and bickering which characterized the 12 months since April 2012 when Cambodia &#8211; with some dabbling from China &#8211; was host.

Divisions remained, however, and agreements on touchy subjects like how to handle overlapping claims and best deal with Beijing in the South China Sea were as elusive as ever.

Beijing could not resist having another shot at The Philippines, issuing a critical statement on Manila&#8217;s push for an international verdict on disputed islands and demanding the withdrawal of all personnel and closure of facilities from islands that it said Manila was occupying. 

According to Philippine Foreign Secretary Albert del Rosario, ASEAN is ready to deal with China as a bloc on the issue. However, China wants bilateral negotiations with ASEAN members only and refuses to have the dispute heard in an international court.

&#8220;I think the next step belongs to China,&#8221; del Rosario said at a post ASEAN briefing.

Despite the territorial disputes, trade between ASEAN countries and China continues to boom and in Southeast Asia&#8217;s favor with Beijing running a trade deficit of $23 billion in 2012, up 37 percent from the previous year. This in itself is putting pressure on ASEAN leaders to find a peaceful solution to the diplomatic and sometimes military standoffs in the South China Sea.

Once again, there was little insight offered on what shape the ASEAN Economic Community (AEC) might take once it is launched at the end of 2015, although talk of seamless trade among the ten members and their trading partners gave some meaningful food for thought. Whatever shape the AEC ultimately takes, it is becoming increasingly obvious that the group will belong to big business leaders with the right political connections who can take advantage of removing tariffs and laws that impede cross-border traffic.

Leaders insisted the launch of the AEC was on schedule with 77 percent of the work now done. They declared that May 9 will be the start date for negotiations on a vast free trade area with key partners China, India, Japan, Australia and New Zealand.

There was also push towards admitting East Timor as the trading bloc&#8217;s 11th member, although ASEAN Secretary General Le Luong Minh indicated this is still some time off.

By Summit&#8217;s end the relief was palpable that ASEAN had managed to avoid a repeat of last year&#8217;s public squabbling and put on a business-like performance with a unified front to the 600 million people who make up the bloc. If nothing else, this must give organizers something to smile about.

ASEAN Summit in Brunei Finds More Common Ground | ASEAN Beat




*Asean upbeat on sea code
But PH to pursue case vs China filed in UN tribunal
*By TJ A. Burgonio
Philippine Daily Inquirer






BANDAR SERI BEGAWAN&#8212;President Aquino emerged from the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (Asean) summit on Thursday upbeat about the prospects of a maritime code of conduct with China to minimize the risk of conflict in the West Philippine Sea (South China Sea).

But even with an Asean agreement to engage China in talks for good behavior at sea, Aquino has made it clear that Manila is not going to withdraw its arbitration case in the United Nations even if Beijing withdraws its surveillance ships from Philippine territory in the West Philippine Sea.

A code of conduct is intended to prevent conflicting territorial claims in the sea from erupting into violence, but the case the Aquino administration has brought to the UN arbitral tribunal aims to force China to recognize the Philippines&#8217; exclusive economic zone.

*Everybody happy*

Aquino said the Philippines filed the notification and claim in the United Nations precisely to clarify its maritime borders with China under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (Unclos).

Aquino and other Asean leaders adjourned the two-day summit on Thursday with an agreement to engage China in talks for a code of conduct, a complete departure from last year&#8217;s summits in Phnom Penh.

*&#8220;We&#8217;re very happy. The President was very happy. The delegation was very happy,&#8221; *said Cabinet Secretary Rene Almendras, who joined the President, Foreign Secretary Albert del Rosario and Trade Secretary Gregory Domingo at the leaders&#8217; Retreat Session.

After the session at the palatial Prime Minister&#8217;s Office (PMO), the Philippine officials came away with the impression that Asean was &#8220;definitely united,&#8221; Almendras said in a chance interview before the presidential delegation motored to the airport for the flight back to Manila.

*&#8220;It was a very good meeting. It was very productive,&#8221; *he said inside the cavernous stone and marble building Brunei&#8217;s Sultan Hassanal Bolkiah had ordered built for the annual two-day summit. *&#8220;You realize that the effectivity of Asean is based on its centrality.&#8221;*

*Engaging China*

Bolkiah, chairman of Asean this year, said the region&#8217;s leaders looked forward to a *&#8220;continued engagement&#8221; with China in implementing the 2002 Declaration of Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea (DOC) between Asean and China.
*
&#8220;We tasked our ministers to continue to work actively with China on the way forward for the early conclusion of a code of conduct in the South China Sea on the basis of consensus,&#8221; he said in a press conference, reading from a prepared statement.

Asean hoped to forge a binding code of conduct with China to replace the DOC, which has failed to stop clashes in the disputed waters. China has balked at this, arguing the time is not ripe yet and preferring to deal with individual claimants.

The Philippines, Brunei, Malaysia and Vietnam, as well as China and Taiwan have overlapping claims over islands, atolls and islets in the West Philippine Sea believed to be sitting atop vast oil and gas reserves.

The sea is also home to sea lanes through which a third of global trade passes every year.

*Consensus*

*&#8220;The consensus is that Asean would move forward and try to work with China to make it happen,&#8221;* Del Rosario said in an interview.

Thailand, which has the role of Asean coordinator with China, proposed a meeting among Asean foreign ministers ahead of an Asean-China meeting expected in August to forge solidarity on the code of conduct, Del Rosario said.

&#8220;I think there is a meeting between Asean and China sometime in the second half [of the year]. What Thailand has done is that they called a meeting prior to that among Asean foreign ministers so we can establish solidarity in approaching that problem,&#8221; Del Rosario said.

According to Del Rosario, the Asean leaders tackled the* &#8220;expeditious conclusion of the code of conduct,&#8221; and had a discussion &#8220;on getting everyone in accord with the full implementation of the DOC.&#8221;
*
Asean endured unprecedented infighting last year as the Philippines and Vietnam failed to persuade the bloc to send a united message of concern to China.

Cambodia, a close China ally that held the rotating chair of Asean in 2012, blocked the efforts of the Philippines and Vietnam.

*Pleased*

Philippine President Benigno Aquino said after Wednesday&#8217;s dinner he was pleased Brunei&#8217;s Sultan Hassanal Bolkiah had made the South China Sea issue a top priority at the summit, and that Asean had rebuilt some unity on the issue.

*&#8220;Everybody is interested in having a peaceful resolution and also in voicing &#8230; concern that there have been increasing disputes,&#8221; *Aquino told reporters.

*&#8220;We should really be thankful that the whole of the Asean is willing to discuss this instead of putting it on the backburner.&#8221;*

In last year&#8217;s meetings in Phnom Penh, Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen reportedly stalled moves by the leaders of the claimant-nations to get the conflict mentioned in a postsummit joint statement.

Aquino rebuked Hun Sen in the second meeting in Phnom Penh last year for claiming that the regional bloc had reached a consensus against internationalizing the issue.

*Going nowhere*

Analysts said Asean&#8217;s calls for China to agree on a legally binding code of conduct for the sea would likely lead nowhere.
Asean and China first agreed to work on a code in 2002, but the Asian economic superpower has since refused to discuss it further.

&#8220;China was never enthusiastic about a code of conduct, as it does not want to sign an agreement that will constrain its sovereignty-building activities,&#8221; Ian Storey, a senior fellow at the Institute of Southeast Asian Studies, said.

But Aquino said he was happy that Asean leaders had at least united in trying to ensure the disputes over territory in the sea did not &#8220;become bloody.&#8221;

&#8220;So there is unity of purpose and one can always be hopeful that will lead to something more concrete,&#8221; he said.

The Philippines and China remain in a standoff at Panatag Shoal (Scarborough Shoal) off Zambales province, with Beijing keeping allegedly armed vessels in the area despite an agreement last June for the two countries to withdraw their ships to ease tensions in the disputed waters.

With China insisting on claiming the area within the Philippines&#8217; exclusive economic zone, Manila brought the dispute to the United Nations last month for arbitration.

*No case withdrawal*

On Wednesday, Mr. Aquino told reporters that the Philippines will not drop its case against China even if Beijing pulls out its surveillance ships from Panatag Shoal.

&#8220;That can&#8217;t be withdrawn,&#8221; Mr. Aquino said. Any deal for withdrawal will be susceptible to a &#8220;change in mood&#8221; later on, he said.
The President stressed that Manila filed the case in the United Nations to clarify its borders with China under the Unclos.

&#8220;What we&#8217;re after here is clarification for both parties,&#8221; he said. &#8220;I don&#8217;t want to heighten the tension by demanding that they respond to this. This is a process. We have to go to all the avenues open for all of us to finally come up with something that is definitive: what are your entitlements, what are your obligations.&#8221;

Manila filed the case, asking the United Nations to compel Beijing to respect the Philippines&#8217; rights to exclusively explore and exploit resources within its exclusive economic zone and continental shelf, as provided for in the Unclos.

The Philippines ratified the Unclos in 1984 and China in 1996. But the two countries have conflicting interpretations of the provisions, especially on the scope of the 22-kilometer exclusive economic zone.&#8212;With a report from AFP

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> As always Indonesia is call upon to fix the problems . While the rest of "them" bickers like old fishwives.


Either you are naive or blind, probably both. Chinese FM repeated at the meeting the f... BS: the SC Sea is theirs and indisputed. I wonder why are you so proud of Indonesia? Don´t you see that China just fools you?


----------



## Viet

Action on the ground speaks louder! Gazprom along with PetroVietnam will tap the gas deposits in the SC Sea. And for some internet Chinese here on the forum, who are interested, Gazprom will drill within your 9-dash-line.


*
Gazprom to Drill Vietnam Offshore Gas in June
*

16:33 18/04/2013





MOSCOW, April 18 (RIA Novosti) &#8211;* Russian energy giant* Gazprom plans to start gas production off Vietnam&#8217;s coast in June, Gazprom Deputy CEO Vitaly Markelov said on Thursday.

In 2012, Gazprom received stakes in developing Blocks 05-2 and 05-3 in the southeastern part of the South China Sea. Two gas condensate fields have been opened in the blocks, Moc Tinh (05-3) and Hai Tchach (05-2 and 05-3) with reserves estimated at 55.6 billion cubic meters of gas and 25 million tons of gas condensate.

The deposits are located some* 320 km from the Vung Tau coast area*. The Nam Con Son underwater gas pipeline is in close proximity to the blocks. The deposits are 100-135 meters deep water.

&#8220;It is planned to build 16 exploitation wells to develop the deposits. Currently, the project is at the deposit development infrastructure stage. Work continues to build the fourth exploitation well at the WHP-MT1 extracting platform (the Moc Tinh deposit). 

*Gas extraction is expected to start in June 2013*,&#8221; Markelov told Gazprom magazine.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Viet said:


> Either you are naive or blind, probably both. Chinese FM repeated at the meeting the f... BS: the SC Sea is theirs and indisputed. I wonder why are you so proud of Indonesia? Don´t you see that China just fools you?



How are we being fooled exactly? Care to explain how  What have you done exactly to remedy the issues in hand. At least Indonesia done something to get the Chinese side to agree on a code of conduct.


----------



## USAHawk785

Malaya said:


> When someone refuses to go to court, it is because they are either guilty, or their case is weak or just fiction
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well even a five year old child can easily see China's claim as ridiculous. They know they will embarrass themselves trying to defend their ludicrous nine-dash idiot line claim



Absolutely. In a court of law, a party that fails to attend court will be defeated , in addition it is considered contempt. The Philippines maintains the moral high ground in this situation and holds on to its position by shear principle. This is the very reason why it has received unprecedented international support from the United States, the European Union as well as most of ASEAN and why China has received condemnation.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> How are we being fooled exactly? Care to explain how  What have you done exactly to remedy the issues in hand. At least Indonesia done something to get the Chinese side to agree on a code of conduct.


Don´t you see that China plays the classical game "devide and conquer"? Why did you fail to see the trap that all are only cheap rhetorics of China on new "code of conduct", on peaceful negotiation, on everything just to fool the audience?

Open your eyes! Look at the current situation on Japan, Philippines and India. Looks as if China wants to recognise Vietnamese claim in the SC Sea, and takes more aggressive moves on others as compensation. Take care on your country Indonesia. You will be the next victim!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Viet said:


> Don´t you see that China plays the classical game "devide and conquer"? Why did you fail to see the trap that all are only cheap rhetorics of China on new "code of conduct", on peaceful negotiation, on everything just to fool the audience?
> 
> Open your eyes! Look at the current situation on Japan, Philippines and India. Looks as if China wants to recognise Vietnamese claim in the SC Sea, and takes more aggressive moves on others as compensation. Take care on your country Indonesia. You will be the next victim!



You should write this down & be a novelist . Not everything someone do is cloak&dagger. All side prefer a peaceful negotiation & all side want to benefit from the negotiation. Such as drilling right, fishing right & etc.

You are Fear mongering right now, can't you present more realistic claim like cornering the ASEAN market with newly caught fish from SCS or the SCS oil will be monopolized by China. Those are more realistic claim than what you're offering. What insurance does the Chinese will try to take Indonesia? Our trade exceed $51 billions. It won't be on their best interest to tick us off, think about it, we are currently a Neutral power they can count on, but if they decide to "take us" instead of a Neutral power they will get a Hostile one & even if they try to "make us their next victim" we can unilaterally increase tariff on them, hold any cargoes bound to China or we can ask the US to aid us against the Chinese & many more. Don't try the first & the second one though, it will cause horrendous damage to the Economy.


----------



## Soryu

Viet said:


> Either you are naive or blind, probably both. Chinese FM repeated at the meeting the f... BS: the SC Sea is theirs and indisputed. I wonder why are you so proud of Indonesia? Don´t you see that China just fools you?


Well, China was want fool all of us about SCS, for sure. But Would Indonesia be fool. I don't think so, let wait...


Reashot Xigwin said:


> How are we being fooled exactly? Care to explain how  What have you done exactly to remedy the issues in hand. At least Indonesia done something to get the Chinese side to agree on a code of conduct.


Everyone has their own way. 
Maybe You didn't see, but Vietnam was most trying side to solve SCS issue. We were the side has disputed with China more than any country. If Vietnam was stepped back when China was pressing us, so why did they must have negotiation with us (ASEAN) when they can gain almost things they claim !?
Even when Filippine has US as ally, they still must step back at first because they know they will loses if they played hard with China. They didn't know about China and not prepared anything to face with this wolf.


Viet said:


> Don´t you see that China plays the classical game "devide and conquer"? Why did you fail to see the trap that all are only cheap rhetorics of China on new "code of conduct", on peaceful negotiation, on everything just to fool the audience?
> 
> Open your eyes! Look at the current situation on Japan, Philippines and India. Looks as if China wants to recognise Vietnamese claim in the SC Sea, and takes more aggressive moves on others as compensation. Take care on your country Indonesia. You will be the next victim!


China want play that game for sure, they also want press us to accept their claims and win this battle but not shoot a bullet.
We also like that.

Both side want peace but has different mean, their aggressive and threaten to make us accept their claims, so just claim and to unite.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoXilai

Vitchilo said:


> HongWu : what kind of Chinese redneck trash are you?
> 
> Seriously, you're no better than American neo-con trash or Japanese ``we never invaded anyone during WW2`` trash... go back to your cave.



He has been banned many times since I known this forums. The reasons for him always are racist words or comments that against humanity. If you read more comments of him you will recognize he is a new fascist!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

Viet said:


> Don´t you see that China plays the classical game "devide and conquer"? Why did you fail to see the trap that all are only cheap rhetorics of China on new "code of conduct", on peaceful negotiation, on everything just to fool the audience?
> 
> Open your eyes! Look at the current situation on Japan, Philippines and India. Looks as if China wants to recognise Vietnamese claim in the SC Sea, and takes more aggressive moves on others as compensation. Take care on your country Indonesia. You will be the next victim!



@Viet+: don't care too much for this guy Reashot Xigwin he is chinese living in Indoneseia.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NiceGuy

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Our trade exceed $51 billions. It won't be on their best interest to tick us off, think about it, we are currently a Neutral power they can count on, but if they decide to "take us" instead of a Neutral power they will get a Hostile one & even if they try to "make us their next victim" we can unilaterally increase tariff on them, hold any cargoes bound to China or we can ask the US to aid us against the Chinese & many more. Don't try the first & the second one though, it will cause horrendous damage to the Economy.


what can u do if US refuse to aid u against China,and even US aid Aussie to invade u instead ?

Dont hope China can aid u against US-Aussie.


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

NiceGuy said:


> what can u do if US refuse to aid u against China,and even US aid Aussie to invade u instead ?
> 
> Dont hope China can aid u against US-Aussie.



supposition have no place in discussion.


----------



## HongWu

NiceGuy said:


> what can u do if US refuse to aid u against China,and even US aid Aussie to invade u instead ?
> 
> Dont hope China can aid u against US-Aussie.


China helped Vietnam to liberate itself from both France and USA before you backstabbed us

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## NiceGuy

HongWu said:


> China helped Vietnam to liberate itself from both France and USA before you backstabbed us


help my @$$,if China didnt help North VN,then South VN would 'liberate' the North VN.we dont need ur so called 'help' to unite VN,idiot

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NiceGuy

Reashot Xigwin said:


> supposition have no place in discussion.


whatever,dont forget that VN-Phil-Aussie are ur neighbours,not China.When US-Aussia invade u,only Phil-VN can help u,not China .


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

NiceGuy said:


> whatever,dont forget that VN-Phil-Aussie are ur neighbours,not China.When US-Aussia invade u,only Phil-VN can help u,not China .



Same logic applies to you, Russia is not your neighbor, but China is, so expect Russia can save you from China's invasion.


----------



## HongWu

NiceGuy said:


> help my @$$,if China didnt help North VN,then South VN would 'liberate' the North VN.we dont need ur so called 'help' to unite VN,idiot


So you are a supporter of colonial South Vietnam against communist North Vietnam? 

The VCP secret police will deal with you shortly

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

HongWu said:


> So you are a supporter of colonial South Vietnam against communist North Vietnam?
> 
> The VCP secret police will deal with you shortly



It is true, Vietcong will first kill those ROV lovers rather than fighting PRC whom they still consider as their big brother.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NiceGuy

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Same logic applies to you, Russia is not your neighbor, but China is, so expect Russia can save you from China's invasion.


But China is too weak and coward, we can.kick.ur @$$ out of our fertile land easily again & again anytime we want



HongWu said:


> So you are a supporter of colonial South Vietnam against communist North Vietnam?
> 
> The VCP secret police will deal with you shortly



Whatever, we dont need ur ' cheap help' to unite VN.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

NiceGuy said:


> But China is too weak and coward, we can.kick.ur @$$ easily anytime we want



LMAO, two nukes from China, Vietnam is a burning hellhole.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## faithfulguy

Chill out, there is not land dispute between Vietnam and China. China only has land dispute with India. How about Vietnam?


----------



## Malaya

*Del Rosario: Taking sea case to arbitration was last resort*
By Michael Lim Ubac, Tarra Quismundo
Philippine Daily Inquirer






*MANILA, Philippines&#8212;The Aquino administration on Saturday said it sought United Nations arbitration as a &#8220;last resort&#8221; because China had refused to withdraw its ships from Bajo de Masinloc (Scarborough Shoal), which the country insists is within Philippine territory.*

Foreign Secretary Albert del Rosario pointed out that it was China&#8212;not the Philippines&#8212;that was now occupying the contested shoal.

Del Rosario was answering China&#8217;s accusation that the Philippines&#8217; resort to international arbitration was an attempt to &#8220;cover in a cloak of legality its occupation of Chinese islands and reefs in the South China Sea.&#8221; China was referring to the Philippines&#8217; occupation of some areas in the contested Spratlys group of islands.

The Philippines last week informed China that it had asked the Arbitral Tribunal under the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) to declare as illegal China&#8217;s nine-dash-line map, which claims almost all the islands in the South China Sea and encompasses territories the Philippines believes it rightfully owns.

China has said it was against internationalizing the issue and proposed bilateral negotiations instead. The Philippines&#8217; move also came as the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (Asean), of which the Philippines is a founding member, continued talks to draw up a code of conduct to prevent conflicts regarding territorial claims in the South China Sea.

Del Rosario said the country formally sought the assistance of the Arbitral Tribunal after all other remedies had been exhausted.

*&#8220;The Philippine choice of arbitration under Unclos is the last resort for a peaceful resolution on disputes in the West Philippine Sea after exhaustion of political and diplomatic approaches,&#8221;* Del Rosario told the Inquirer by phone on Saturday.

On Friday, in a briefing at Malacañang, he said, &#8220;The Chinese have tried to establish a de facto occupation of Bajo de Masinloc. When we last checked, I think they had two maritime surveillance vessels there and then they had a fisheries law enforcement boat. So they have three vessels there.

He said this was what prompted the government to avail itself of the option of international arbitration.

&#8220;That train has left the station and we are trying to proceed with that. We believe that will yield the results that we&#8217;re after in terms of providing a durable solution. Any solution that we would have come up with, short of a solution that is derived from the (Unclos), I think at best (would be) a transactional solution and not a durable one,&#8221; said Del Rosario.

According to him, Manila had three approaches to deal with the sea dispute: political, diplomatic (through bilateral relations) and legal.

&#8220;I think that we have significantly moved, of course, in parallel to try and utilize all of those approaches. And we got to a point where we felt that as far as the political and the diplomatic approaches are concerned, we had exerted every possible effort there and yielded no results. So we have filed an arbitration case,&#8221; he said.

*&#8220;For the Philippines, it will clarify what is ours. It will define our maritime entitlements related to fishing, access to natural resources and law enforcement in our exclusive economic zone in accordance with Unclos,&#8221;* he said.

&#8220;For all other nations, it will remove the threat to freedom of navigation from the region,&#8221; Del Rosario said.

*The Philippines believes China&#8217;s nine-dash line is an &#8220;excessive declaration&#8221; of its maritime territory, as it encompasses all of the West Philippine Sea, including territories closer to the Philippine shoreline than to China&#8217;s*.


----------



## Fsjal

Indonesia is a suspicious "ally" of China. Anyway, they should not intervene, since they have no disputes there.


----------



## Malaya

Fsjal said:


> *Indonesia is a suspicious* "ally" of China. Anyway, they should not intervene, since they have no disputes there.


Heck you're even more suspicious than them false flagger. Only fools would believe you

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## NiceGuy

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> LMAO, two nukes from China, Vietnam is a burning hellhole.


We can enrich uranium to make nuke and fire to u ,too.anyway:ur corrupted leaders are too coward to nuke VN


faithfulguy said:


> Chill out, there is not land dispute between Vietnam and China. China only has land dispute with India. How about Vietnam?
> 
> Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...a-sea-news-discussions-147.html#ixzz2SIneH4PC


we just wanna control our islands and water territory in scs(east sea) coz we can control China's economy from there


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

NiceGuy said:


> We can enrich uranium to make nuke and fire to u ,too.anyway:ur corrupted leaders are too coward to nuke VN



Come on, making nuke is too much for your coconut brain.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## deep hacker here

why china hates vietnam vietnam is such a peacefull place, i can understand hating japan usa but vietnam. why



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Come on, making nuke is too much for your coconut brain.



coconut and u have testicle size.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## VietHome

Anyone bragging about using Nuclear Weapon on other people when he/she loses moral arguments is a complete waste of intellectual knowledge privileged upon him/her. Chickenhawk school yard bullies talk big when they are not the one fighting in a war. Chinese Party's member families, capitalist princes/princesses will gloat about obliterating other countries while unemployed city dwellers and rural peasants are the ones dying.

Fighting is not all about strength; it's about guts. A fail boy may die from beating but he will make sure to bite off a finger from the fat bully. That's why throughout their history, Chinese imperials hate Vietnam the most. It's like a thorn on their sight that continues to exist despite their repeated attempts to subjugate. After all, Vietnam is a road block preventing Chinese empire from expanding to South Asia. Again, it's all about guts my friends. When you are ready to kill someone, you must be ready to die as well. If the US, France, and Japan had read Vietnam's history with China, they would have prevented defeats in this land.

That said, China has a very lousy record of conquests. Back to the fat bully analogy earlier, they always ended up being conquered by smaller nations. From Mongolia, Manchuria, European countries to Japan, "heavenly empire" is nothing but a legend in their own mind. I would not say China is a paper tiger, but Vietnam or any other countries have nothing to be scared of. We only need to keep keen eyes on them. As history has shown, big mouth up North is just good at talking.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Sasquatch

Alright get back on the actual topic, I will start handing out infractions after this.


----------



## cirr

CMS 8003 by XJS almost at the ready&#65306;












for some fun in the SCS&#12290;

This 650-tonne &#8220;minnow&#8221; is big enough for monkeys in the said region&#12290;

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

Vietnam Navy missile boats visit to ZhangJiang military port of PRC

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## jhungary

Viet said:


> Vietnam Navy missile boats visit to ZhangJiang military port of PRC



Did I see it right or the Vietnamese boat hoisting a Chinese flag on its ship mast??? I think it's not allowed under international rules....


----------



## EastSea

US sailors hang up a Vietnamese flag atop a visiting destoryer in 2010.

US Navy says no S.China Sea link to Vietnam visit

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Malaya

*U.S. backs ASEAN on Code of Conduct and reaffirms support for PHL arbitration move
A May 6, 2013, press release from the Department of Foreign Affairs*






*Undersecretary of Foreign Affairs for Policy Evan P. Garcia (4th from left) with US and ASEAN Senior Officials, including Acting Assistant Secretary Joseph Yun of the U.S. State Department (7th from left), US Ambassador to ASEAN David Carden, (6th from left) and Director-General for ASEAN Affairs of Myanmar U Aung Lynn (5th from left).*

ASEAN and United States Senior Officials met in Washington DC last May 2-3 to deepen ASEAN-U.S. cooperation and discuss regional and international developments at the 26th ASEAN-U.S. Dialogue. The U.S. and Myanmar served as Co-Chairs of the meeting.

*Discussion on South China Sea and Code of Conduct*

Senior Officials exchanged views on the South China Sea and other maritime disputes. ASEAN countries reaffirmed ASEAN&#8217;s Six Point Principles on the South China Sea and briefed the U.S. on their efforts to move forward to develop a legally binding Code of Conduct (COC) with China. The United States expressed support for ASEAN&#8217;s collective efforts on the COC.

Undersecretary of Foreign Affairs for Policy Evan P. Garcia said the need for a COC was made more urgent by recent developments in the West Philippine Sea. He stated that despite the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea (DOC) and calls by ASEAN and Dialogue Partners to exercise restraint and avoid any action that will escalate tension, &#8220;concerns regarding destabilizing activities remain.&#8221;

*U.S. supports arbitration as a means of peaceful settlement of disputes in accordance with international law*

Undersecretary Garcia also gave an update on the Philippines&#8217; recourse to international arbitration under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), citing that it *&#8220;is rooted in good global citizenship and will benefit all parties as it will clarify maritime entitlements under UNCLOS.&#8221; * He added that this* &#8220;will help assure peace, security and stability in the region and contribute to its continued economic growth and prosperity.&#8221;*

The U.S. emphasized the importance of upholding the rule of international law in the South China Sea and opposed the use or threat of force to advance claims in the region.

U.S. Deputy Secretary of State William Burns, as well as Mr. Joseph Yun, Acting Assistant Secretary for East Asia and head of the U.S. delegation to the ASEAN-U.S. Dialogue, reaffirmed the right of any state to use mechanisms under international law for the peaceful and just settlement of disputes, including arbitration.

&#8220;The Philippines welcomes the support of the U.S. and other countries for our efforts to resolve outstanding issues in the West Philippine Sea through peaceful means and consistent with the rule of law and our obligations under UNCLOS,&#8221; said Undersecretary Garcia.

&#8220;The zeal of the Philippines to conclude a Code of Conduct has not changed. This is not inconsistent with our arbitration efforts. In fact, these are mutually supportive of each other as both are deeply rooted in the rule of law and the peaceful settlement of international disputes,&#8221; the Undersecretary pointed out.

The meeting also discussed preparations for the ASEAN Post Ministerial Conference with the US and ASEAN-US Leaders&#8217; Summit scheduled later this year.

ASEAN-US dialogue relations were established in 1977. Starting with discussions on political and security matters in its early stages, the dialogue has expanded to other issues such as climate change, biodiversity, food and energy security, disaster risk reduction, and maritime security.

dfa.gov.ph


U.S. backs ASEAN on Code of Conduct and reaffirms support for PHL arbitration move | Official Gazette of the Republic of the Philippines

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Nike

wow vietnam has so many military muscles at their hands

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## HongWu

China spanks Vietnam at Mischief Reef!


----------



## Soryu

jhungary said:


> Did I see it right or the Vietnamese boat hoisting a Chinese flag on its ship mast??? I think it's not allowed under international rules....



Like I know, It's normal action. When you go to other countries's territorial waters, you have two flags on your ship, one is your nation flag, other is that country flag.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

_Pictured: U.S. Navy Captain James Fanell, deputy chief of staff for intelligence and information operations, US Pacific Fleet
_

&#8220;They are taking control of maritime areas that have never been administered or controlled in the last 5,000 years by any regime called China,&#8221; said Capt. James Fanell, deputy chief of staff for intelligence and information operations at the US Pacific fleet headquarters in Hawaii.

He said China&#8217;s navy was using &#8220;civil proxy&#8221; maritime security ships to advance Beijing&#8217;s sovereignty claims.

&#8220;They now regularly challenge exclusive economic-zone resource rights that South Korea, Japan, the Philippines, Malaysia, Brunei, Indonesia and *Vietnam *once thought were guaranteed to them by the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea,&#8221; Fanell told a defense conference in San Diego.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## EastSea

HongWu said:


> China spanks Vietnam at Mischief Reef!



cowardice Chinese, you dare not show the boat identification number.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Malaya

*SolGen: We want legal, not just moral, victory in West PHL Sea row*

*The Philippines will not settle for just a "moral victory" in the latest chapter of its territorial row with China over parts of the West Philippine Sea.*

Philippine Solicitor General Francis Jardeleza stressed this as he discussed the matter with academics in the United States, the Department of Foreign Affairs said Sunday.

*&#8220;It would be in the international community&#8217;s overall interest to persuade China to respect such decision, since the repudiation would only hurt the system of international law on which countries both powerful and weak rely,&#8221; *he said, according to an article posted on the DFA website.

Jardeleza was also quoted in the DFA article as saying the Philippines "is seeking a legal, and not just a moral, victory."

He stressed these points in response to questions on what options the Philippines could take if it wins a judgment that may be ignored by China.

The Solicitor General spoke at events at Harvard University, New York University (NYU) and the Council on Foreign Relations, a leading Manhattan-based think tank, on the Philippines&#8217; maritime arbitration case against China in the International Tribunal on the Law of the Sea (ITLOS).

Jardeleza visited Harvard University on April 23, and NYU and the Council on Foreign Relations on April 24.

"Many of the academics applauded the Philippines&#8217; recourse to the rule of law, led by Professor Jerome Cohen of NYU who is a leading American expert on Chinese law," the DFA said.

Jardeleza contested China&#8217;s interpretation and application of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), specifically its nine-dash line claim.

He said the nine-dash line claim interferes with the exercise by the Philippines of its sovereign rights and jurisdiction in its exclusive economic zone and continental shelf.

Also, Jardeleza reiterated the Philippines&#8217; overriding position that resort to arbitration is &#8220;a form of peaceful settlement of disputes.&#8221;

He said the outcome could benefit the Philippines, China, as well as the region and the world, by contributing to the predictability of interstate relations through the common standards set by UNCLOS, to which both countries are parties.

&#8220;Our meetings this week with the leading academic communities, while informal, was very informative, convivial and interactive,&#8221; he said.

*ASEAN role*

Jardeleza said the Philippines also relies on the Association of Southeast Asian Nations, of which it is a member, to help resolve the issue.

&#8220;Our ASEAN partners have always known and acknowledged that taking a legal, in addition to a diplomatic, approach is a sovereign option. This was brought to bear last year when the Philippines was having a hard time gaining ASEAN&#8217;s consensus on the matter,&#8221; he said. &#8212; BM, GMA News

SolGen: We want legal, not just moral, victory in West PHL Sea row | News | GMA News Online


----------



## Viet

Let see if the Chinese dare to harass the Russian bear?


*Russian ship surveys Truong Sa*

Updated : 5/5/2013 6:05:17 PM Voice of Vietnam





(VOV) - The ship Academician Oparin from the Russian Academy of Sciences left Nha Trang city to survey Vietnamese waters including the *Truong Sa (Spratly)* island district in the central province of Khanh Hoa.

The two month fact-finding trip involves 22 Russian scientists and 12 scientists from the *Vietnam Academy of Science and Technology *(VAST) who will survey the sea areas in Vietnam.

Launched in 1985, the 73 meter long, 15 meter wide Academician Oparin is specially designed for scientific oceanic research and functions as a mobile laboratory at sea.

VAST Chairman Professor Dr Chau Van Minh said this is the fourth time the ship has visited Vietnam to conduct a comprehensive survey on the biodiversity and biochemical makeup of the East Sea, which could help protect *Vietnam&#8217;s sovereignty *over its seas and islands.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## cirr

Freshly launched CMS 5030 at Guilin XJS&#65306;







More toys on their way to join the melee/fun in the SCS&#12290;


----------



## cirr

CMS vessels launched in the last year or so&#65306;

No&#12290; shipyard

1K class

8002 HPS
9020 HPS
5001 WCS
9030 HPS
4072 HPS
2032 HPS
2168 HPS

600-ton class &#65306;

4067 HHS
8027 XMS
1116 GJS
8003 XJS
5030 XJS
7038 NHS

More&#65292;far more are in the pipeline&#12290;

Bigger&#65292;far bigger ships are awaiting construction&#12290;

The more than 10 shipyards tasked to build these babies are short of docks&#12290;


----------



## EastSea

cirr said:


> CMS vessels launched in the last year or so&#65306;
> 
> No&#12290; shipyard
> 
> 1K class
> 
> 8002 HPS
> 9020 HPS
> 5001 WCS
> 9030 HPS
> 4072 HPS
> 2032 HPS
> 2168 HPS
> 
> 600-ton class &#65306;
> 
> 4067 HHS
> 8027 XMS
> 1116 GJS
> 8003 XJS
> 5030 XJS
> 7038 NHS
> 
> More&#65292;far more are in the pipeline&#12290;
> 
> Bigger&#65292;far bigger ships are awaiting construction&#12290;
> 
> The more than 10 shipyards tasked to build these babies are short of docks&#12290;



corruption officials got pension money first, Chinese people paid tax for such useless toys.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Soryu

cirr said:


> More&#65292;far more are in the pipeline&#12290;
> 
> Bigger&#65292;far bigger ships are awaiting construction&#12290;
> 
> The more than 10 shipyards tasked to build these babies are short of docks&#12290;


Were bigger, faster, more and more to get the issue better !?
I don't think so, those ship will be useless toys if COC were complete. Even it's not, those ship will be encounter with VMA and VPN ships.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cirr

CMS 1001 launched today at HPS&#65306;











Monkeys who remain monkeys will be given a hard chase in the open sea by this beauty&#12290;


----------



## cirr

Coming up next will be Tianjin 1.5k&#12290;

By the way&#65292;this LiJian&#65288;SharpSword&#65289; UCAV will bomb the crap out of the monkeys&#65306;

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zero_wing

cirr said:


> Coming up next will be Tianjin 1.5k&#12290;
> 
> By the way&#65292;this LiJian&#65288;SharpSword&#65289; UCAV will bomb the crap out of the monkeys&#65306;



Oh wow so this the result of the data you stole from the Americans good luck caring your your threats !


----------



## cirr

Stolen&#65311;

Only the retards or the brainwashed would believe such nonsense made up by the Americans&#12290;

If it is so easy to steal&#65292;why don't you people take a leaf out of China's book&#65311;

It would save you poor people billions in research and development&#12290;

Your precious foreign exchanges would be better spent on improving the living standard of your people&#12290;

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

Coming up next is the first ton 1.5k &#8221;CMS 9010&#8220; belonging to Guangdong Provincial Fleet&#12290;

A real beauty in its own class&#65281;

Hold your breath&#12290;


----------



## Viet

VN shall mass produce such toys of UAV (Vietnam made), while continuing to increase their performance. Maybe the UAVs will be able to carry *missiles *one day. Hold your breath, too, idiot!

Some data of the biggest unmanned aircraft prototype:

weight: 170 kg
speed: 180 kph
radius: 100 km 
elevation: 3,000 meters
operating hours: six
onboard: cameras for both day and nighttime use, fitted with scientific devices, and programmed flying routes

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## shuttler

Viet said:


> VN shall mass produce such toys of UAV (Vietnam made), while continuing to increase their performance. Maybe the UAVs will be able to carry *missiles *one day. Hold your breath, too, idiot!
> 
> Some data of the biggest unmanned aircraft prototype:
> 
> weight: 170 kg
> speed: 180 kph
> radius: 100 km
> elevation: 3,000 meters
> operating hours: six
> onboard: cameras for both day and nighttime use, fitted with scientific devices, and programmed flying routes



you are a joke vietcongs!

we have these on offer. How many do you want? USD100~300 a piece; 50 pieces minimum / order.
















This one under US$100 a piece








[YouKu]XMzIzOTE0NjI0[/YouKu]

[tudou]BJpwK0KZl5I[/tudou]


dont let your uavs scare the sea birds!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

shuttler said:


> you are a joke vietcongs!
> 
> we have these on offer. How many do you want? USD100~300 a piece; 50 pieces minimum / order.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This one under US$100 a piece
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [YouKu]XMzIzOTE0NjI0[/YouKu]
> 
> [tudou]BJpwK0KZl5I[/tudou]
> 
> 
> dont let your uavs scare the sea birds!



fake toys, will fell down by winds.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Fsjal

Viet said:


> VN shall mass produce such toys of UAV (Vietnam made), while continuing to increase their performance. Maybe the UAVs will be able to carry *missiles *one day. Hold your breath, too, idiot!
> 
> Some data of the biggest unmanned aircraft prototype:
> 
> weight: 170 kg
> speed: 180 kph
> radius: *100 km*
> elevation:* 3,000 meters*
> operating hours: *six*
> onboard: cameras for both day and nighttime use, fitted with scientific devices, and programmed flying routes



A range of 100KM 

Endurance of 6 hours. 

Heard of the Soar Eagle HALE UAV. Anyway, your UAV would be more like a battlefield recon UAV

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## romia

steal for US ?hahahah

You're really brainwashed by the US .stupid


----------



## Zero_wing

romia said:


> steal for US ?hahahah
> 
> You're really brainwashed by the US .stupid



wow you should talk


----------



## Martian2

*China's February 1948 nine-dash line map*

Some of you may be wondering why it is perfectly legal for Taiwanese fishermen to fish southwards within 200 miles from Taiwan's coast, but it is illegal for Filipino fishermen to fish 200-miles westward toward the Spratly Islands.

The reason is due to China's February 1948 nine-dash line map. This Chinese map had been in existence for fifty years and no ASEAN government complained. Also, the Chinese sovereignty map predates 1982 UNCLOS and is grandfathered in under the historical exception.

Thus, it is perfectly legal for the Taiwanese fisherman to fish 164 miles south of Taiwan under UNCLOS.

It is also completely illegal for Filipino fishermen to fish in Chinese waters that trespass the 1948 Chinese nine dash-line map.

The two situations are completely different.






China's 1947 map depicting the "eleven-dotted-line"


----------



## Rechoice

Martian2 said:


> *China's February 1948 nine-dash line map*
> 
> Some of you may be wondering why it is perfectly legal for Taiwanese fishermen to fish southwards within 200 miles from Taiwan's coast, but it is illegal for Filipino fishermen to fish 200-miles westward toward the Spratly Islands.
> 
> The reason is due to China's February 1948 nine-dash line map. This Chinese map had been in existence for fifty years and no ASEAN government complained. Also, the Chinese sovereignty map predates 1982 UNCLOS and is grandfathered in under the historical exception.
> 
> Thus, it is perfectly legal for the Taiwanese fisherman to fish 164 miles south of Taiwan under UNCLOS.
> 
> It is also completely illegal for Filipino fishermen to fish in Chinese waters that trespass the 1948 Chinese nine dash-line map.
> 
> The two situations are completely different.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China's 1947 map depicting the "eleven-dotted-line"



China can produce any fake products if she want, including map, idiot Ah Q ! .

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Zero_wing

Wow no other country in the world claims a whole sea non but china next time they would claim my country oh way what's this? 

China TV "claims" Philippines as Chinese territory - YouTube
China TV &#8216;claims&#8217; Philippines as Chinese territory

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Zero_wing

Wow no other country in the world claims a whole sea non but china next time they would claim my country oh way what's this? 

China TV "claims" Philippines as Chinese territory - YouTube
China TV claims Philippines as Chinese territory


----------



## Minjitta

Zero_wing said:


> Wow no other country in the world claims a whole sea non but china next time they would claim my country oh way what's this?
> 
> China TV "claims" Philippines as Chinese territory - YouTube
> China TV claims Philippines as Chinese territory


NEXT In Line Please!!! Malaysia, Indonesia, Hawaii, Alaska .........

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

So you were living in cave in USA, I know ... tsk tsk tsk ...  


Martian2 said:


> *China's February 1948 nine-dash line map*
> 
> Some of you may be wondering why it is perfectly legal for Taiwanese fishermen to fish southwards within 200 miles from Taiwan's coast, but it is illegal for Filipino fishermen to fish 200-miles westward toward the Spratly Islands.
> 
> The reason is due to China's February 1948 nine-dash line map. This Chinese map had been in existence for fifty years and no ASEAN government complained. Also, the Chinese sovereignty map predates 1982 UNCLOS and is grandfathered in under the historical exception.
> 
> Thus, it is perfectly legal for the Taiwanese fisherman to fish 164 miles south of Taiwan under UNCLOS.
> 
> It is also completely illegal for Filipino fishermen to fish in Chinese waters that trespass the 1948 Chinese nine dash-line map.
> 
> The two situations are completely different.
> 
> China's 1947 map depicting the "eleven-dotted-line"


----------



## Zero_wing

Soryu said:


> So you were living in cave in USA, I know ... tsk tsk tsk ...



Sir a moron is a moron this chinese think they are the master race i though that thing die out after the Nazi's die out but still some people are stupid enough not to learn from history

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NiceGuy

Vietnam protests Chinas fishing ban in East Sea


Vietnams Ministry of Foreign Affairs on May 15 protested against Chinas unilateral implementation of a ban on fishing in the East Sea. 

Foreign Ministry spokesperson Luong Thanh Nghi made the protest while answering reporters queries on Vietnams response to Chinas promulgation of the ban on fishing in the East Sea in 2013 from 12.00 AM, May 16 till 12.00 AM, August 1 which encompasses some portions of Vietnams waters. 

Chinas unilateral implementation of the ban on fishing in the East Sea in 2013 which encompasses some portions of Vietnams waters violates Vietnams sovereignty over Hoang Sa (Paracel) archipelago, its sovereign rights and jurisdiction over its exclusive economic zone and continental shelf under the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, said Nghi. 

He added that the ban goes against the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the East Sea (DOC). 

Vietnam opposes and declares Chinas aforementioned unilateral decision null and void, the spokesperson stressed.-VNA
Vietnam protests China

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Malaya

*India to raise stakes in South China Sea*
Saubhadra Chatterji and Jayanth Jacob, Hindustan Times New Delhi, May 15, 2013

Despite Chinese unease about India&#8217;s growing energy ties with Vietnam, New Delhi is set to pump in $145.94 million in a gas field in the politically sensitive region.

Though this particular investment is not in an area where the Chinese have a territorial dispute with Vietnam, the Indian move does have strategic implications. The Union cabinet will consider this proposal on Thursday.

The Indian investment is aimed at raising the stake of ONGC&#8217;s foreign arm OVL in the joint venture for gas field 06.1 in Nam Con Son basin off Vietnam&#8217;s south coast. Currently, OVL owns 45% stake while BP (British Petroleum) has 35% and PetroVietnam owns the remaining 20% share.

With BP exiting from the venture to raise money to offset the loss incurred in the Gulf of Mexico oil spill, OVL is eyeing the controlling stake in the venture. In fact, New Delhi had already used its diplomatic clout with Vietnam to ensure that OVL gets the chance to buy BP&#8217;s shares. Under Chinese pressure, Vietnam is keen to have as many foreign companies as possible in its energy sector, most of which are in the contested South China Sea.

Apart from two offshore gas fields, the venture also runs a pipeline and a power project.

In the past, China had raised serious objections to OVL&#8217;s participation in oil blocks 127 and 128 in South China Sea off Vietnam coast. While China claimed sovereignty in these areas, Vietnam cited its sovereignty rights over Blocks 127 and 128 according to the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, 1982.

&#8220;This particular gas block is not in a disputed area. We have been there for a while and this project is giving us good returns as well. It makes immense business sense to stay there and no political reasons are attached to the move,&#8221; an official, familiar with the development, said.

There are many potentially oil and gas-rich islands on the South China Sea, which are facing territorial disputes.

India to raise stakes in South China Sea - Hindustan Times

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Malaya

*Kalayaan island posts fastest vote*
By Jaime Laude (The Philippine Star) 






MANILA, Philippines - Voting on Kalayaan island in the hotly contested Spratly archipelago was over in just six hours, the fastest ever recorded in the country&#8217;s history.

First Lieutenant Cherryl Tindog, Western Command (Wescom) spokesperson, said voting on the island, which is part of Palawan, started at 7 a.m. yesterday and ended at 1 p.m., with all 288 registered voters casting their ballots.

&#8220;The polls on the island started as scheduled and remained peaceful. The provincial Comelec (Commission on Elections) had announced earlier that the election in Kalayaan was expected to finish earlier than the rest of the province,&#8221; Tindog said.

Election paraphernalia were flown to the island before the May 13 elections and registered voters based at the Kalayaan&#8217;s satellite office in Puerto Princesa flew home to vote yesterday.

Tindog said they were awaiting results of the three-cornered political contest for mayor.

Aside from incumbent Mayor Eugenio Bito-onon, Puerto Princesa City-based businessman Noel Osorio and Rosendo Mantes, a retired military man, are contesting the mayoralty post in the island town located in the middle of territorial conflict among Spratlys-claimant countries, like China, Vietnam, Malaysia, Taiwan and Brunei.

Kalayaan island posts fastest vote | Headlines, News, The Philippine Star | philstar.com

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Soryu

Feel sorry for Philippine fishing-men, but now they know what's "play with China". Unfortunate they were not join with Vietnam and Malaysia in 2009, but want alone to deal with China .



> *In a disputed reef, Philippines sees face of Chinese domination*
> 
> _*Scarborough Shoal, a mecca for fishermen, is claimed by both countries, and the fight over it and other territory in the South China Sea threatens to entangle the U.S.*_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Luz Farones Macario, the wife of a fisherman, now sells meat at the market in Masinloc, Philippines, because the Chinese declared a fishing ban at Scarborough Shoal. (Barbara Demick /Los Angeles Times / May 9, 2013)_
> 
> 
> By Barbara Demick, Los Angeles Times
> 
> May 14, 2013, 6:43 p.m.
> 
> MASINLOC, Philippines  The fishermen were sailing the azure waters off the Philippine coast when Richard Caneda saw the morning sunlight glinting off a vessel "bigger than the biggest ship in the Philippine navy."
> 
> Caneda could see a red Chinese flag. The words "Chinese Maritime Surveillance" were written on the ship's side.
> 
> The ship came close enough that Caneda could see crew members on deck making hand gestures as though to shoo away a fly. Caneda, who had moved from the fishing boat to a tiny skiff to haul in nets left out overnight, soon saw a large gun mounted on the ship's deck pivoting directly toward him. A helicopter whirred overhead.
> 
> The fishermen fled, leaving their nets and catch behind.
> 
> "We were scared. We were angry. We were frustrated. That is our livelihood," Caneda, 34, a now-unemployed father of three who lives in a shantytown in Masinloc, said of the November encounter.
> 
> It happened near the reef known as Scarborough Shoal, 130 miles off the coast of the Philippines' largest island, Luzon, and barely 200 miles from Manila, the Philippine capital. Claimed by both China and the Philippines, the mostly underwater reef has come to represent the dangers of Chinese expansionism.
> 
> "Scarborough today  tomorrow the world," read banners at an anti-China demonstration last year in Manila.
> 
> In its quest to become a maritime power and to tap potential undersea oil and gas reserves, China is asserting sovereignty over various islands, rocks and reefs dangerously close to the shores of Japan, South Korea, Malaysia, Brunei, Vietnam, Indonesia and the Philippines.
> 
> Beijing and Taipei, Taiwan, condemned the Philippines on Friday for the shooting death of an unarmed 65-year-old Taiwanese fisherman in the disputed waters of the South China Sea. Philippine authorities said a coast guard ship fired on the Taiwanese vessel a day earlier in an area to the north of Luzon, but only in an attempt to disable the engine to prevent being rammed.
> 
> On Wednesday, the Philippines issued an official apology in a response to a midnight deadline set by Taiwan, which had threatened economic retaliation.
> 
> Along with Japan's Senkaku islands (known as Diaoyu to the Chinese), the Scarborough Shoal is the area's most hotly contested territory, the scene of dozens of too-close calls during the last year.
> 
> For more than a year, Chinese ships have patrolled Scarborough Shoal, chasing away Philippine fisherman and maintaining what Philippine Foreign Secretary Albert del Rosario calls "a de facto occupation."
> 
> Despite pledges of neutrality from Washington, the dispute could easily entangle the United States, resurrecting Cold War alliances and putting to the test the Obama administration's so-called pivot toward Asia.
> 
> For most of the 20th century, the U.S. Navy had its largest overseas base at nearby Subic Bay in the Philippines, and the Navy used to conduct firing exercises at Scarborough Shoal. Feeling that the Americans had worn out their welcome, Manila asked the Navy to leave in 1992. But last year, a few U.S. vessels were readmitted on a rotating basis, and Filipinos increasingly are expressing regret about the American departure.
> 
> "If the Americans were still at Subic Bay, the Chinese wouldn't dare do this to us," Caneda said.
> 
> In January, the Philippines asked a United Nations tribunal to determine the status of the reef. But the process could take years, and China has indicated it will not abide by the decision.
> 
> In the meantime, the Philippines finds itself outgunned, outmaneuvered and outspent. The Chinese have run a rope across the mouth of a lagoon inside the triangular-shaped shoal, where Filipinos have fished for generations, and in recent weeks have declared a 15-mile fishing ban around the reef.
> 
> The dispute has devastated the fragile economy of the fishing communities in coastal Luzon. The shoal used to attract so many fishing boats that at night with their lights shining, it looked like an illuminated city at sea.
> 
> Fishermen say the shoal was where they went to get the biggest and best fish: Spanish mackerel, Pacific cod, tuna and lapu lapu, a giant grouper. A 25-man ship could bring back $17,000 worth of fish in a single trip.
> 
> "The income from fishing is cut in half," said Julius Sumaling, a fishing boat captain who says it's not worth the gas anymore to go out with his ship, the San Pedro, now docked south of Masinloc, a town of 51,000 on the coast.
> 
> Joseph Morate, who sells squid at the main market in Masinloc, said he took his 15-year-old daughter out of school because he could no longer afford the $4 a day in transportation costs and needed her to baby-sit younger children.
> 
> "All I have to sell is squid because the Chinese are chasing us away from the quality fish," Morate said.
> 
> At the main market, many of the white tile tables where fish used to be displayed are now mostly empty or used by vendors selling meat.
> 
> Luz Farones Macario, whose husband runs one of the biggest fishing fleets in Masinloc, with three large boats, now sells frozen chicken legs, ham and sausage.
> 
> "All of these aisles were full of fish. Now, no more," she said. "Why are the Chinese being so selfish when there is so much fish in the sea?"
> 
> According to Filipinos, the generations of fishing at the shoal were interrupted only when the reef was used as a firing range. It is more than 500 miles from the southern tip of China's southernmost island, Hainan.
> 
> Beijing, however, has produced records showing that the territory was explored and charted as far back as 1279 by the 13th century astronomer Guo Shoujing, who surveyed the region for the emperor Kublai Khan.
> 
> China has produced a U-shaped map that gives it sovereignty over almost all the South China Sea up to the borders of Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei and Indonesia.
> 
> Shen Dingli, an international relations expert at Shanghai's Fudan University, says the Philippines did not actively assert its claim to the shoal until 1992.
> 
> "For a long time, China has claimed all rocks in the entire South China Sea," Shen said, speaking at an international conference last week in Seoul. "Prior to 1992, the Philippines made no official disagreement, so we view it as a virtual admission of China's claim."
> 
> The Chinese have also denied using force, saying the ships it dispatches belong only to China Marine Surveillance and the Fisheries Law Enforcement Command, civilian agencies that are not supposed to carry weapons. Photographs in Chinese state media, however, clearly show some of the marine surveillance ships with guns mounted on their decks.
> 
> Experts in maritime law say part of the issue is that China is a much older country than its neighbors, with a more meticulous system of record-keeping.
> 
> "The Philippines didn't even have a central government until Spanish colonial times," said Carlyle Thayer, professor emeritus at the Australian Defense Force Academy. "The local Malay people didn't keep records the way the Chinese did.
> 
> "But the fact that you have records doesn't extinguish the rights of the native people," Thayer said.
> 
> The name Scarborough comes from a boat that was shipwrecked there in 1784. Filipinos also call it the Bajo de Masinloc  a name that dates to Spanish colonial times  while the Chinese have named it Huangyan, or "Yellow Rock."
> 
> By many accounts, the reef was a favorite fishing spot for numerous groups for years, and relations were friendly enough that fishermen often bartered goods  Chinese liquor and instant noodles for Philippine mangoes and papaya.
> 
> The current spat dates to April 11, 2012, when Chinese fishermen were accused of poaching giant clams and sharks, protected species. The Philippines sent a naval ship to arrest the Chinese fishermen, who in turn radioed for help from China Marine Surveillance.
> 
> After a two-month standoff, a deal was brokered by the United States for both sides to withdraw from the shoal.
> 
> The Chinese never left.
> 
> In a disputed reef, Philippines sees face of Chinese domination - latimes.com

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## VietHome

^ the Philippines need to booster their defenses, especially in regard to surface ship forces. They need to build bigger marine surveillance ships to counter PRC threat. Japan can be a big help in this area. The Philippines should buy coastal defense systems, preferably from Russia since the West did not put emphasis in this area. Missile ships have to be purchase, air force need more capable planes and anti-ship missiles. 

All of these need to be done fast, the enemy is at the gate now. That Scarborough Reefs is just few hundred km away from Subic Port. That's why China disregarded international law to capture the reefs. Their main target is to set up a radar base to monitor this Port.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Zero_wing

VietHome said:


> ^ the Philippines need to booster their defenses, especially in regard to surface ship forces. They need to build bigger marine surveillance ships to counter PRC threat. Japan can be a big help in this area. The Philippines should buy coastal defense systems, preferably from Russia since the West did not put emphasis in this area. Missile ships have to be purchase, air force need more capable planes and anti-ship missiles.
> 
> All of these need to be done fast, the enemy is at the gate now. That Scarborough Reefs is just few hundred km away from Subic Port. That's why China disregarded international law to capture the reefs. Their main target is to set up a radar base to monitor this Port.



Don't worry our ships from Japan will becoming with our planes from Korea and Italy as well and after that 3 years from now our new ship from Korea and our new helicopters from Italy so its ok let them have a few ours of fun but as the filipino saying goes may araw rin sila!

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## VietHome

Zero_wing said:


> Don't worry our ships from Japan will becoming with our planes from Korea and Italy as well and after that 3 years from now our new ship from Korea and our new helicopters from Italy so its ok let them have a few ours of fun but as the filipino saying goes may araw rin sila!


I hope that your government pull enough political courage into defense. It has been a concern from some of my Filipino's friends that corruptions might hinder money for national security. 

Btw, have you thought about coastal defense missiles? Those will be very effective weapons against off-shore attacks from You-Know-Who.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Martian2

*Taiwanese air power and its effect on South China Sea*

*Taiwan has Asia's second-largest air force (after China)*

The Taiwanese Air Force has 326 fourth-generation fighters, which is larger than the Japanese Air Force with 273 fourth-generation fighters.

If you ask me, "how did Taiwan end up with such a large air force?" My best guess is that the United States pressures Taiwan to keep buying military equipment. Taiwan has a large forex and relatively low national debt (42% of GDP). The United States expects purchases of roughly $10 billion every three years.

----------

Taiwanese pilots (including F-16) have trained at Luke Air Force base in Arizona for 55 years

Luke Air Force Base - Fact Sheet (Printable) : 56TH OPERATIONS GROUP

"Training foreign pilots is not new to Luke Air Force Base. The first foreign students to train in the "Valley of the Sun" were Chinese pilots during World War II. In February 1942, the first Chinese pilots were trained in the P-40 Warhawk, P-47 Thunderbolt and eventually the P-51 Mustang. These pilots had a major impact in the defense of China. Many of these pilots became members of a Taiwan squadron designated 21st Fighter Squadron "Blackjacks." The Blackjacks were one of the most successful squadrons during the war and were unmatched in their aerial victories against Japanese forces. Concurrently, the U.S. 21st Fighter Squadron was in the China theater attacking Japanese forces with the P-40 Warhawk and P-51 Mustang. *It is in recognition of the exploits of both of these squadrons that the 21st Fighter Squadron "Gamblers" was activated at Luke 21st Fighter Squadron began training Taiwan pilots in February 1997, 55 years to the month that the first Chinese pilots began training here at Luke.*"

F-16 Air Forces - United States of America :: F-16.net





Two F-16A Block 20 aircraft on a training mission over the Arizonan desert, seen from the backseat of an F-16B Block 20. These aircraft are operated by the 21st FS 'Gamblers' at Luke AFB on behalf of the Republic of China and are used to train RoCAF pilots [ROCAF photo]

"Foreign Air Forces

Two F-16A block 20 aircraft on a training mission over the Arizonan desert, seen from the backseat of an F-16B Block 20. These aircraft are operated by the 21st FS 'Gamblers' at Luke AFB on behalf of the Republic of China and are used to train RoCAF pilots

Luke AFB is also host to a number of (semi-)permanent detachments from foreign airforces. These detachments provide training for F-16 pilots from their respective airforces, working in close cooperation with USAF instructors and profiting from the training facilities at Luke. More permanent detachments often get a dedicated USAF squadron designation. The first country to do so was Singapore. In the early nineties, the RSAF based a number of ex-Thunderbirds aircraft at Luke AFB for training purposes. Ever since then, the RSAF has maintained a permanent detachment at Luke, which uses the 425th FS "Black Widows" designation. Currenty, this detachment is equipped with the latest block 52 aircraft. *The second country to receive pilot training was Taiwan. A number of Taiwanese F-16 block 20 aircraft were dispatched to the 21st FS "Gamblers" at Luke AFB for this purpose.* Other international customers are trained at the Air National Guard facilities at Tucson. Singapore also maintains a detachment with the ACC's 27th FW at Cannon AFB, New Mexico."

----------

*Taiwan owns Taiping Island and can affect Vietnamese coast or western Philippines*

Taiwan owns the largest island (e.g. Taiping Island) and airfield in the South China Sea.










Taiwan's South China Sea Taiping Island runway

----------

A long time ago, Taiwan was the most industrialized of the South China Sea claimants and claimed Taiping Island first.

Taiwan is an old industrialized country. Taiwan's nominal per-capita GDP exceeded Portugal's in 2012. By 2014, according to the IMF, Taiwan's nominal per-capita GDP will exceed Greece.

Taiping Island | Wikipedia

"Taiping Island is the largest of the Spratly Islands in the South China Sea,[1] and the only one where fresh water is available.[citation needed] The island is elliptical in shape being 1.4 km in length and 0.4 km in width. It is part of the Tizard Bank (Zheng He Reefs; &#37165;&#21644;&#32676;&#30977, one of seven reefs in the Spratly Islands near the centre of the South China Sea. The Taiping Island Airport is the most prominent artificial feature on the island.

The island is administered by the Republic of China (Taiwan), as part of Cijin, Kaohsiung. It is also claimed by the People's Republic of China, the Philippines and Vietnam. The distance from Kaohsiung to Taiping Island is about 1,600 km (990 mi). The nearby Zhongzhou Reef is also under the possession of the ROC."

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Malaya

*EU supports ASEAN in South China Sea issue*
BY ACE TAMAYO
POSTED ON 05/17/2013

*MANILA, Philippines &#8211; The Department of Foreign Affairs (DFA) disclosed on Friday, May 17, that a meeting between senior officials of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) and the European Union (UN) was held in Ho Chi Minh, Vietnam to discuss disputes in the South China Sea.*

In a statement, the DFA said that the EU reiterated its support *&#8220;for the peaceful settlement of disputes in the South China Sea in accordance with international law, including the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS).&#8221;*

DFA reported that the EU underscored its interest in peace, maritime security, stability, freedom of navigation, and unimpeded commerce in the South China Sea and called on* &#8220;concerned parties to clarify their claims on the basis of UNCLOS.&#8221;*

Foreign Affairs Undersecretary Evan P. Garcia, who was the lead speaker on maritime security cooperation on May 15, discussed with the European leaders ASEAN&#8217;s efforts to push for a Code of Conduct (COC) with China, and the Philippines&#8217; recourse to UNCLOS arbitration as *&#8220;a means to promote a peaceful and rules-based solution to disputes in the West Philippine Sea.&#8221;*

&#8220;The Philippines highly appreciates the EU&#8217;s support for the peaceful settlement of disputes in accordance with international law, including UNCLOS,&#8221; Undersecretary Garcia said.

On January 22, the Philippines decided to elevate the territorial dispute over the West Philippine Sea to Annex VII arbitration under the UNCLOS as the standoff between the Philippine Navy and Chinese fishing vessels that entered Scarborough Shoal continues a year since it began.

he government wants the tribunal to declare *China's 9-Dash claim as "invalid" and "unlawful."*

During the 22nd ASEAN summit on April 25, southeast Asian leaders called for urgent talks with China to ensure that increasingly tense territorial disputes over the South China Sea do not escalate into violence. &#8211; Rappler.com

EU supports ASEAN in South China Sea issue



VietHome said:


> I hope that your government pull enough political courage into defense. It has been a concern from some of my Filipino's friends that corruptions might hinder money for national security.
> 
> Btw, have you thought about coastal defense missiles? Those will be very effective weapons against off-shore attacks from You-Know-Who.


Couldn't agree more. Hoping Pnoy's administration will go full throttle to upgrade and modernize our military hardware and facilities. Our country needs this improved militarization to defend our territories from internal and external invasion.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Malaya

*PAG-ASA ISLAND *

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Fsjal

^Never heard of so called "West Philippine Sea"^

Anyway, a potential target for Viet and Chinese planes

Also the runway needs repairing.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zero_wing

To the troll well now you know so run along now the adults are talking anyway kabayan malaya nice pic saan may university na rin jan sunod tapos palingke SM dapat or Robinson para hindi na sila pumunta ng Puerto kaya gusto ko si Hagidon (hindi ko alam kung tama spelling ko ng last name niya) Kabayan sino binoto mo sa midterm elections?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Malaya

Zero_wing said:


> To the troll well now you know so run along now the adults are talking anyway kabayan malaya nice pic saan may university na rin jan sunod tapos palingke SM dapat or Robinson para hindi na sila pumunta ng Puerto kaya gusto ko si Hagidon (hindi ko alam kung tama spelling ko ng last name niya) Kabayan sino binoto mo sa midterm elections?


Hopefully in the future lagyan rin nila ng mall pati gawing tourist destination yan. Am sure mang gagalaiti yang mga Instsik na yan hehe...binoto ko rin si Hagedorn.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Fsjal

^The island is too small for a mall.^

It's always shop, shop shop. A resort wouldn't be bad, if the island was a bit bigger

Anyway, Pag-Asa island lacks any decent facilities for warplanes, let alone being targeted by Chinese planes. The island is defenseless




Q-5 attack planes




Su-27 fighter plane




JH-7 fighter bomber

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zero_wing

Malaya said:


> Hopefully in the future lagyan rin nila ng mall pati gawing tourist destination yan. Am sure mang gagalaiti yang mga Instsik na yan hehe...binoto ko rin si Hagedorn.



Nice bro saan nga pero Ayala ako mas maganda sila gumawa may dating kasi kay sa SM at Robinson sa Ayala lahat para may makati tayo sa Kalayaan hahahahaha Hindi seriyoso ako sana Ayala nga.



Fsjal said:


> ^The island is too small for a mall.^
> 
> It's always shop, shop shop. A resort wouldn't be bad, if the island was a bit bigger
> 
> Anyway, Pag-Asa island lacks any decent facilities for warplanes, let alone being targeted by Chinese planes. The island is defenseless
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Q-5 attack planes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Su-27 fighter plane
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JH-7 fighter bomber



Those are cheap copies please they can't lift itself so did you enjoy using free world internet troll?







VietHome said:


> I hope that your government pull enough political courage into defense. It has been a concern from some of my Filipino's friends that corruptions might hinder money for national security.
> 
> Btw, have you thought about coastal defense missiles? Those will be very effective weapons against off-shore attacks from You-Know-Who.



They are but our budget on defense is limited as for missile defense its on Phase 3 of the modernization plan but its going to be other decade to have one again limited budget and that damn bidding process i prefer G2G Government to Government no fuss at all clean as clean transaction but people in the DND prefer bidding.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Minjitta

China sweet talk to Phillipines to go against Vietnam (not joint Vietnam and Malaysia in the UN) and promised not to take Phillipines islands, guess Phillipines got suck punch by China.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Soryu

Minjitta said:


> China sweet talk to Phillipines to go against Vietnam (not joint Vietnam and Malaysia in the UN) and promised not to take Phillipines islands, guess Phillipines got suck punch by China.



Their trick were success, lucky that USA was speaking want return Asia-Pacific in time... so China will slow down a bit, but not stop.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zero_wing

3 PN Vessels Drive Away 3 Boats from China - Manila Standard Today

By Francisco Tuyay | Posted on May. 18, 2013 at 12:02am | 4,455 views

Philippine Navy ships used &#8220;bashing maneuvers&#8221; to drive away three fishing boats from mainland China that tried to occupy an island off Palawan in the West Philippine Sea on Tuesday, military sources said.

The fishing boats were in the vicinity of Ayungin Reef, also known as the Second Thomas Reef, when the Philippine Navy ships arrived and made &#8220;circling maneuvers&#8221; that forced the Chinese to move out, the source said.&#8220;They were forced to back-off several miles from Ayungin Reef after our ships arrived in the area,&#8221; said the source who spoke to the Manila Standard on condition of anonymity.Ayungin Reef, which is adjacent to Mischief Reef or Panganiban Reef, is only 150 miles off Palawan and 620 miles from southwest China. It was occupied by the Philippines in 1973.

The Chinese has occupied Scarborough Shoal or Bajo de Masinloc, which the Philippines has claimed as part of its territory. Filipino fishermen have been barred from entering the area.The Philippine Navy has sent three ships&#8212;a Peacock Class offshore patrol, a frigate-type PS 74, and Personnel Carrer bessel PS 71&#8212;to the area to prevent the Chinese from coming back, the source said.&#8220;At present they [the three fishing boats] are seen stationary several miles off Ayungin Reef. We are monitoring their movements,&#8221; the source said.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-far-east/253123-chinese-occupation-plot-foiled.html#ixzz2Tir0XbOR

Mabuhay ng Republika! Saludo ako sa PN

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Minjitta

Soryu said:


> Their trick were success, lucky that USA was speaking want return Asia-Pacific in time... so China will slow down a bit, but not stop.


the old saying never trust China words and always monitor China actions

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zero_wing

Minjitta said:


> the old saying never trust China words and always monitor China actions



Exactly! This people are pirates they have no word at all! 

Anyway victory news for us:

Chinese foiled from occupying island
By Francisco Tuyay | Posted on May. 18, 2013 at 12:02am | 3,718 views


Philippine Navy ships used &#8220;bashing maneuvers&#8221; to drive away three fishing boats from mainland China that tried to occupy an island off Palawan in the West Philippine Sea on Tuesday, military sources said.

The fishing boats were in the vicinity of Ayungin Reef, also known as the Second Thomas Reef, when the Philippine Navy ships arrived and made &#8220;circling maneuvers&#8221; that forced the Chinese to move out, the source said.

&#8220;They were forced to back-off several miles from Ayungin Reef after our ships arrived in the area,&#8221; said the source who spoke to the Manila Standard on condition of anonymity.


----------



## cirr

4500-ton CFA 311 patrolling the SCS&#65306;
















and protecting the fishing flottila

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NiceGuy

Manmohan-Li talks: PM takes tough line on incursion issue
Pranab Dhal Samanta : New Delhi | Mon May 20 2013, 08:26 hrs





*India rejects request to back Beijing stand on South China Sea (PTI)
*
Prime Minister Manmohan Singh on Sunday sought to draw the red line on border incursions with China, making it clear to his Chinese counterpart Li Keqiang that peace and tranquillity on the boundary is at the &#8220;foundation&#8221; of this relationship and must be maintained.

In his hour-long interaction with Li ahead of their private dinner, sources said, Singh highlighted the fact that though there were existing mechanisms to deal with any misunderstanding on the ground, it still took a long time to resolve the recent incursion at Depsang.

Both leaders agreed that the two special representatives on the boundary question must look into this issue and examine the efficacy of existing mechanisms while coming up with ways to improve them.

On the issue of trans-boundary rivers, sources said, both sides have largely agreed on an expanded exchange of information on river data but the Chinese side is unwilling to spell out if this would include advance information on construction of dams. The understanding in the joint statement, as of now, reflects an improvement to the existing practice.

Even at the bilateral meeting, when the PM raised this issue, Li is said to have conveyed that China has been sensitive to the concerns of lower riparian countries. Overall, sources said, Li was extremely warm in his interaction with Singh, looking to move beyond the recent incursion issue.

However, negotiations on the joint statement have been far more tough, leading to more exclusions in a bid to arrive at a common understanding.

*China, for instance, wanted the statement to endorse its position on South China Sea in the context of security in the Asia Pacific, which meant recognising that the disputes there were internal issues of each country and ought to be resolved bilaterally. It made a strong pitch, but India turned it down saying these were international waters where accepted laws of sea apply.*

As a result, there is likely to be a mention of Asia Pacific, but only as an area where both countries have interest in maintaining peace and security.
................
Manmohan-Li talks: PM takes tough line on incursion issue - Indian Express Mobile

Manmohan-Li talks: PM takes tough line on incursion issue
Pranab Dhal Samanta : New Delhi | Mon May 20 2013, 08:26 hrs

India rejects request to back Beijing stand on South China Sea (PTI)
A A
Prime Minister Manmohan Singh on Sunday sought to draw the red line on border incursions with China, making it clear to his Chinese counterpart Li Keqiang that peace and tranquillity on the boundary is at the &#8220;foundation&#8221; of this relationship and must be maintained.

In his hour-long interaction with Li ahead of their private dinner, sources said, Singh highlighted the fact that though there were existing mechanisms to deal with any misunderstanding on the ground, it still took a long time to resolve the recent incursion at Depsang.

Both leaders agreed that the two special representatives on the boundary question must look into this issue and examine the efficacy of existing mechanisms while coming up with ways to improve them.

On the issue of trans-boundary rivers, sources said, both sides have largely agreed on an expanded exchange of information on river data but the Chinese side is unwilling to spell out if this would include advance information on construction of dams. The understanding in the joint statement, as of now, reflects an improvement to the existing practice.

Even at the bilateral meeting, when the PM raised this issue, Li is said to have conveyed that China has been sensitive to the concerns of lower riparian countries. Overall, sources said, Li was extremely warm in his interaction with Singh, looking to move beyond the recent incursion issue.

However, negotiations on the joint statement have been far more tough, leading to more exclusions in a bid to arrive at a common understanding.

China, for instance, wanted the statement to endorse its position on South China Sea in the context of security in the Asia Pacific, which meant recognising that the disputes there were internal issues of each country and ought to be resolved bilaterally. It made a strong pitch, but India turned it down saying these were international waters where accepted laws of sea apply.

As a result, there is likely to be a mention of Asia Pacific, but only as an area where both countries have interest in maintaining peace and security.
................
Manmohan-Li talks: PM takes tough line on incursion issue - Indian Express Mobile

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ManilaBoy45

Philippines Boosts Military to Resist 'Bullies' Amid China Dispute

$1.8 Billion in Military Upgrade

Published on May 21, 2013 | 5:47 PM

Philippine President Benigno Aquino III addresses the media shortly after leading the 115th Philippine Navy anniversary celebration at Fort San Felipe, Cavite city, south-west of Manila, Philippines on Tuesday, May 21, 2013. Mr Aquino on Tuesday announced a US$1.8 billion (S$2.26 billion) military upgrade to help defend his country's maritime territory against "bullies", amid an ever-worsening dispute with China. 

In thinly veiled comments referring to China, Mr Aquino vowed during a speech to mark the navy's 115th anniversary that the armed forces would be given the resources necessary to protect Philippine sovereignty."We have a clear message to the world: The Philippines is for Filipinos, and we have the capability to resist bullies entering our backyard," Mr Aquino told naval chiefs.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## hurt

ManilaBoy45 said:


> Philippines Boosts Military to Resist 'Bullies' Amid China Dispute




$1.8 Billion 
Navy


----------



## Yukio

*Japan to fast track coast guard vessels donation to the Philippines*







The plan for Japan to provide coast guard patrol ships to the Philippines will be accelerated, according to Japanese officials. Foreign Minister Fumio Kishida and Philippine Foreign Secretary Albert del Rosario are expected to sign the final plan at their meeting in Tokyo on Wednesday.

Manila formally requested 10 coast guard patrol ship from Japan last December. A fact-finding mission, which includes experts from the Japan International Cooperation Agency, was sent by the Japanese government this May to assess the situation. They will also work with officials in coming up with the equipment preferences and also devising with plans to operate the patrol ships once they are turned over. The delivery for the vessels are expected to begin by next fiscal year from April 2014. Each ship is expected to cost more than 1 billion yen (approx. 9.74 million dollars) and will be part of the official development assistance of Japan to the Philippines.

The fast-tracking of this plan is also due to the increasing activities of China in the South China Sea. The Philippines is currently involved in a territorial dispute over the Spratly Islands and the Scarborough Shoal. The ships and the plan being developed is to strengthen the capacity of the Philippine&#8217;s maritime police against possible actions by China over the row. Japan is considering providing assistance to Vietnam, who is also involved in a dispute with China over boundaries and territories in the maritime region as well.

Japan to fast track coast guard vessels donation to the Philippines - The Japan Daily Press

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## hurt

Yukio said:


> *Japan to fast track coast guard vessels donation to the Philippines*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The plan for Japan to provide coast guard patrol ships to the Philippines will be accelerated, according to Japanese officials. Foreign Minister Fumio Kishida and Philippine Foreign Secretary Albert del Rosario are expected to sign the final plan at their meeting in Tokyo on Wednesday.
> 
> Manila formally requested 10 coast guard patrol ship from Japan last December. A fact-finding mission, which includes experts from the Japan International Cooperation Agency, was sent by the Japanese government this May to assess the situation. They will also work with officials in coming up with the equipment preferences and also devising with plans to operate the patrol ships once they are turned over. The delivery for the vessels are expected to begin by next fiscal year from April 2014. Each ship is expected to cost more than 1 billion yen (approx. 9.74 million dollars) and will be part of the official development assistance of Japan to the Philippines.
> 
> The fast-tracking of this plan is also due to the increasing activities of China in the South China Sea. The Philippines is currently involved in a territorial dispute over the Spratly Islands and the Scarborough Shoal. The ships and the plan being developed is to strengthen the capacity of the Philippine&#8217;s maritime police against possible actions by China over the row. Japan is considering providing assistance to Vietnam, who is also involved in a dispute with China over boundaries and territories in the maritime region as well.
> 
> Japan to fast track coast guard vessels donation to the Philippines - The Japan Daily Press



Your pic is Hida-class patrol vessel,1800 tons.7.9 billion yen (approx. 77 million dollars) per ship.

This is the right one. 197 tons.But Japan Coast Guard's BIZAN class 2 billion yen (approx. 19.5 million dollars) per ship,its Less equipped version?
No C4I,No Armament,No Pump-jet?


----------



## hurt

Yukio said:


> *Japan to fast track coast guard vessels donation to the Philippines*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The plan for Japan to provide coast guard patrol ships to the Philippines will be accelerated, according to Japanese officials. Foreign Minister Fumio Kishida and Philippine Foreign Secretary Albert del Rosario are expected to sign the final plan at their meeting in Tokyo on Wednesday.
> 
> Manila formally requested 10 coast guard patrol ship from Japan last December. A fact-finding mission, which includes experts from the Japan International Cooperation Agency, was sent by the Japanese government this May to assess the situation. They will also work with officials in coming up with the equipment preferences and also devising with plans to operate the patrol ships once they are turned over. The delivery for the vessels are expected to begin by next fiscal year from April 2014. Each ship is expected to cost more than 1 billion yen (approx. 9.74 million dollars) and will be part of the official development assistance of Japan to the Philippines.
> 
> The fast-tracking of this plan is also due to the increasing activities of China in the South China Sea. The Philippines is currently involved in a territorial dispute over the Spratly Islands and the Scarborough Shoal. The ships and the plan being developed is to strengthen the capacity of the Philippine&#8217;s maritime police against possible actions by China over the row. Japan is considering providing assistance to Vietnam, who is also involved in a dispute with China over boundaries and territories in the maritime region as well.
> 
> Japan to fast track coast guard vessels donation to the Philippines - The Japan Daily Press



&#12501;&#12451;&#12522;&#12500;&#12531;&#12399;&#12289;&#21335;&#12471;&#12490;&#28023;&#12398;&#19968;&#37096;&#12391;&#20013;&#22269;&#12392;&#38936;&#26377;&#27177;&#12434;&#20105;&#12387;&#12390;&#12356;&#12427;&#12290;&#26152;&#24180;12&#26376;&#12395;&#26085;&#26412;&#12395;40&#12513;&#12540;&#12488;&#12523;&#32026;&#12398;&#24033;&#35222;&#33337;10&#38587;&#12434;&#25552;&#20379;&#12377;&#12427;&#12424;&#12358;&#27491;&#24335;&#35201;&#35531;&#12375;&#12383;&#12290;&#65297;&#38587;&#24403;&#12383;&#12426;&#21313;&#25968;&#20740;&#20870;&#12434;&#35211;&#36796;&#12415;&#12289;&#25919;&#24220;&#38283;&#30330;&#25588;&#21161;&#65288;&#65327;&#65316;&#65313;&#65289;&#12398;&#20870;&#20511;&#27454;&#12434;&#20805;&#12390;&#12289;&#65298;&#65296;&#65297;&#65300;&#24180;&#24230;&#20197;&#38477;&#12395;&#38918;&#27425;&#24341;&#12365;&#28193;&#12377;&#32771;&#12360;&#12384;&#12290;

&#21313;&#25968;&#20740;&#20870; = 1 billion yen?
I think it means that near 2 billion yen.

by the way, ODA is not donation.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ManilaBoy45

Chinese Fishing Vessels Continue to Poach in Philippine Waters

Fishermen From China Continues Illegal Activity Near Ayungin Reef

Posted on May 22nd, 2013

Chinese fishing vessels escorted by a naval ship continue to poach in Philippine waters, Department of National Defense (DND) Secretary Voltaire Gazmin said yesterday, according to mb.com.The DND Secretary added that Chinese fishermen are fishing off the Philippine-occupied Ayngin Shoal.He also said: Theyre fishing in our territory.The ships were flying the Chinese flag, according to the Secretary.

President of the Philippines Benigno Aquino III called on China to respect the countrys territorial jurisdiction and warned that they are ready to fight back against any threat, the Associated Press informed.He also announced plans of the Philippines to buy more warships and aircrafts, including submarine attack helicopters.


----------



## EastSea

hurt said:


> &#12501;&#12451;&#12522;&#12500;&#12531;&#12399;&#12289;&#21335;&#12471;&#12490;&#28023;&#12398;&#19968;&#37096;&#12391;&#20013;&#22269;&#12392;&#38936;&#26377;&#27177;&#12434;&#20105;&#12387;&#12390;&#12356;&#12427;&#12290;&#26152;&#24180;12&#26376;&#12395;&#26085;&#26412;&#12395;40&#12513;&#12540;&#12488;&#12523;&#32026;&#12398;&#24033;&#35222;&#33337;10&#38587;&#12434;&#25552;&#20379;&#12377;&#12427;&#12424;&#12358;&#27491;&#24335;&#35201;&#35531;&#12375;&#12383;&#12290;&#65297;&#38587;&#24403;&#12383;&#12426;&#21313;&#25968;&#20740;&#20870;&#12434;&#35211;&#36796;&#12415;&#12289;&#25919;&#24220;&#38283;&#30330;&#25588;&#21161;&#65288;&#65327;&#65316;&#65313;&#65289;&#12398;&#20870;&#20511;&#27454;&#12434;&#20805;&#12390;&#12289;&#65298;&#65296;&#65297;&#65300;&#24180;&#24230;&#20197;&#38477;&#12395;&#38918;&#27425;&#24341;&#12365;&#28193;&#12377;&#32771;&#12360;&#12384;&#12290;
> 
> &#21313;&#25968;&#20740;&#20870; = 1 billion yen?
> I think it means that near 2 billion yen.
> 
> by the way, ODA is not donation.



if ODA loan agreement should be signed by next meeting, funding is made under control by JICA following laws and regulations in Japan , is included the condition stated that: "Refund shall be deemed to null", the project can be consider as "donation".
I think, Philippine govt has to bear the amount understood as counterfund for training personal staff and other fee should be born to put the ships in to operation.


----------



## hurt

EastSea said:


> if ODA loan agreement should be signed by next meeting, funding is made under control by JICA following laws and regulations in Japan , is included the condition stated that: "Refund shall be deemed to null", the project can be consider as "donation".
> I think, Philippine govt has to bear the amount understood as counterfund for training personal staff and other fee should be born to put the ships in to operation.



No way
There is only $1.1 billion ODA(donates from Japan) from 1999 until 2012.
And Philippine need Refund $6 billion ODA loan until 2013.
This pic is ODA Budget of japan per year,Budget being reduced




Those ships cost more than $0.2 billion include training personal staff.
Its a joke --Refund shall be deemed to null cheers:
there is a way for it,send your donates from Japan to Philippine


----------



## Viet

hurt said:


> No way
> There is only $1.1 billion ODA(donates from Japan) from 1999 until 2012.
> *And Philippine need Refund $6 billion ODA loan until 2013.*
> This pic is ODA Budget of japan per year,Budget being reduced


any source for the bold part?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## hurt

Viet said:


> any source for the bold part?



???: ???? ?????? ODA??????http://www.mofa.go.jp/policy/oda/data/pdfs/philippines.pdf


----------



## Viet

hurt said:


> ???: ???? ?????? ODA??????http://www.mofa.go.jp/policy/oda/data/pdfs/philippines.pdf


you genius, there is nothing inside that supports your argument, as far as I see.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

hurt said:


> No way
> There is only $1.1 billion ODA(donates from Japan) from 1999 until 2012.
> And Philippine need Refund $6 billion ODA loan until 2013.
> This pic is ODA Budget of japan per year,Budget being reduced
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those ships cost more than $0.2 billion include training personal staff.
> Its a joke --Refund shall be deemed to null cheers:
> there is a way for it,send your donates from Japan to Philippine



You don't have basic knowledge about thís matter, don't troll it just showed your ignorance.


----------



## hurt

EastSea said:


> You don't have basic knowledge about thís matter, don't troll it just showed your ignorance.



Japan no enough Budget to donates for you.
Japanese said that "Refund shall be deemed to null" means use Technical Cooperation (Equipment provision part) to Refund .
But Equipment provision for Philippine total is $0.24 billion from 1975 until 2012.
Dont show your "knowledge" about japan to me . 
ignorance kid


----------



## hurt

Viet said:


> you genius, there is nothing inside that supports your argument, as far as I see.



Can you read it ?
Can you understand what japanese officer talk about?
Wake up from your dream,poor beggar
http://www.mofa.go.jp/mofaj/gaiko/oda/shiryo/kuni/12_databook/pdfs/01-06.pdf


----------



## ManilaBoy45

Philippines Activity on Ren'ai Reef Draws Chinese Caution

Construction Activity Onboard Stranded WW2 Warship - Globaltimes.cn

Global Times | 2013-5-23 0:13:01 
By Chang Meng and Qiu Yongzheng

Chinese navy and marine surveillance forces are closely monitoring activities conducted by the Philippines on a vessel stranded on the Ren'ai Reef in the South China Sea, a source close to the matter told the Global Times.The Philippines filed a protest with the Chinese embassy in Manila Tuesday that the recent presence of a Chinese warship and two marine surveillance vessels near the reef was "illegal and proactive."

Chinese foreign ministry spokesman Hong Lei responded Wednesday that the Ren'ai Reef is part of China's Nansha Islands, and that China has indisputable sovereignty over them and their adjacent waters, adding that Chinese ships are entitled to regularly patrol there.The Philippines sent three military vessels on May 9 after spotting the Chinese ships.

The source also told the Global Times that the Philippine vessels carried a large amount of construction materials to repair a worn-out warship that has been stranded there since May 9, 1999 due to an alleged leak at the bottom, adding that the country has been sending garrison soldiers to gain de facto control to the reef and refused to withdraw the ship.


----------



## EastSea

hurt said:


> Japan no enough Budget to donates for you.
> Japanese said that "Refund shall be deemed to null" means use Technical Cooperation (Equipment provision part) to Refund .
> But Equipment provision for Philippine total is $0.24 billion from 1975 until 2012.
> Dont show your "knowledge" about japan to me .
> ignorance kid



any amount concerned no need to pay back, it's donation, idiot chinese boy.


----------



## hurt

EastSea said:


> any amount concerned no need to pay back, it's donation, idiot chinese boy.



idiot viet boy ,Do you know that Japan ODA&#12288;include &#20870;&#20511;&#27454;, &#28961;&#20767;&#36039;&#37329;&#21332;&#21147;, &#25216;&#34899;&#21332;&#21147; three parts?


----------



## EastSea

hurt said:


> idiot viet boy ,Do you know that Japan ODA&#12288;include &#20870;&#20511;&#27454;, &#28961;&#20767;&#36039;&#37329;&#21332;&#21147;, &#25216;&#34899;&#21332;&#21147; three parts?



What kind of strokes here, it's cooperation for assistance, in case of don't have a benefit, no one in the world received ODA from Japan other than Japan Govt can forgive the debt in future. It's nature ODA loan, understand ?


----------



## hurt

EastSea said:


> any amount concerned no need to pay back, it's donation, idiot chinese boy.



&#12501;&#12451;&#12522;&#12500;&#12531;&#12399;&#12289;&#21335;&#12471;&#12490;&#28023;&#12398;&#19968;&#37096;&#12391;&#20013;&#22269;&#12392;&#38936;&#26377;&#27177;&#12434;&#20105;&#12387;&#12390;&#12356;&#12427;&#12290;&#26152;&#24180;12&#26376;&#12395;&#26085;&#26412;&#12395;40&#12513;&#12540;&#12488;&#12523;&#32026;&#12398;&#24033;&#35222;&#33337;10&#38587;&#12434;&#25552;&#20379;&#12377;&#12427;&#12424;&#12358;&#27491;&#24335;&#35201;&#35531;&#12375;&#12383;&#12290;&#65297;&#38587;&#24403;&#12383;&#12426;&#21313;&#25968;&#20740;&#20870;&#12434;&#35211;&#36796;&#12415;&#12289;&#25919;&#24220;&#38283;&#30330;&#25588;&#21161;&#65288;&#65327;&#65316;&#65313;&#65289;&#12398;&#20870;&#20511;&#27454;&#12434;&#20805;&#12390;&#12289;&#65298;&#65296;&#65297;&#65300;&#24180;&#24230;&#20197;&#38477;&#12395;&#38918;&#27425;&#24341;&#12365;&#28193;&#12377;&#32771;&#12360;&#12384;&#12290;

&#12371;&#12428;&#12395;&#23550;&#12375;&#12390;&#26085;&#26412;&#20596;&#12399;&#12289;ODA&#12398;&#36039;&#37329;&#12434;&#27963;&#29992;&#12375;&#12289;&#20013;&#21476;&#12391;&#12399;&#12394;&#12367;&#26032;&#36896;&#12398;&#24033;&#35222;&#33337;&#12434;&#20379;&#19982;&#12377;&#12427;&#26041;&#21521;&#12391;&#26908;&#35342;&#12377;&#12427;&#26041;&#37341;&#12290;&#12384;&#12364;&#12505;&#12488;&#12490;&#12512;&#12398;&#28023;&#19978;&#35686;&#23519;&#12399;&#36557;&#12398;&#19968;&#37096;&#12391;&#12354;&#12427;&#12371;&#12392;&#12363;&#12425;&#12289;&#36557;&#32068;&#32340;&#12408;&#12398;ODA&#25552;&#20379;&#12434;&#31105;&#12376;&#12427;ODA&#22823;&#32177;&#12364;&#12493;&#12483;&#12463;&#12395;&#12394;&#12426;&#12289;&#36039;&#37329;&#12398;&#25163;&#24403;&#12390;&#12364;&#12391;&#12365;&#12394;&#12367;&#12394;&#12387;&#12383;&#12290;

Japan ODA include &#20870;&#20511;&#27454;, &#28961;&#20767;&#36039;&#37329;&#21332;&#21147;, &#25216;&#34899;&#21332;&#21147; 3 parts.
&#28961;&#20767;&#36039;&#37329;&#21332;&#21147; and &#25216;&#34899;&#21332;&#21147; are donation.

&#20870;&#20511;&#27454; is loan.
Japan give ODA loan to Philippines to buy the ships.It need to Refund .
ODA cant for Military aid,So Vietnam cant get same loan from ODA for Patrol.

idiot Beggar.

Your Government Refund Japan ODA loan per year,but you think its donation.


----------



## EastSea

hurt said:


> &#12501;&#12451;&#12522;&#12500;&#12531;&#12399;&#12289;&#21335;&#12471;&#12490;&#28023;&#12398;&#19968;&#37096;&#12391;&#20013;&#22269;&#12392;&#38936;&#26377;&#27177;&#12434;&#20105;&#12387;&#12390;&#12356;&#12427;&#12290;&#26152;&#24180;12&#26376;&#12395;&#26085;&#26412;&#12395;40&#12513;&#12540;&#12488;&#12523;&#32026;&#12398;&#24033;&#35222;&#33337;10&#38587;&#12434;&#25552;&#20379;&#12377;&#12427;&#12424;&#12358;&#27491;&#24335;&#35201;&#35531;&#12375;&#12383;&#12290;&#65297;&#38587;&#24403;&#12383;&#12426;&#21313;&#25968;&#20740;&#20870;&#12434;&#35211;&#36796;&#12415;&#12289;&#25919;&#24220;&#38283;&#30330;&#25588;&#21161;&#65288;&#65327;&#65316;&#65313;&#65289;&#12398;&#20870;&#20511;&#27454;&#12434;&#20805;&#12390;&#12289;&#65298;&#65296;&#65297;&#65300;&#24180;&#24230;&#20197;&#38477;&#12395;&#38918;&#27425;&#24341;&#12365;&#28193;&#12377;&#32771;&#12360;&#12384;&#12290;
> 
> &#12371;&#12428;&#12395;&#23550;&#12375;&#12390;&#26085;&#26412;&#20596;&#12399;&#12289;ODA&#12398;&#36039;&#37329;&#12434;&#27963;&#29992;&#12375;&#12289;&#20013;&#21476;&#12391;&#12399;&#12394;&#12367;&#26032;&#36896;&#12398;&#24033;&#35222;&#33337;&#12434;&#20379;&#19982;&#12377;&#12427;&#26041;&#21521;&#12391;&#26908;&#35342;&#12377;&#12427;&#26041;&#37341;&#12290;&#12384;&#12364;&#12505;&#12488;&#12490;&#12512;&#12398;&#28023;&#19978;&#35686;&#23519;&#12399;&#36557;&#12398;&#19968;&#37096;&#12391;&#12354;&#12427;&#12371;&#12392;&#12363;&#12425;&#12289;&#36557;&#32068;&#32340;&#12408;&#12398;ODA&#25552;&#20379;&#12434;&#31105;&#12376;&#12427;ODA&#22823;&#32177;&#12364;&#12493;&#12483;&#12463;&#12395;&#12394;&#12426;&#12289;&#36039;&#37329;&#12398;&#25163;&#24403;&#12390;&#12364;&#12391;&#12365;&#12394;&#12367;&#12394;&#12387;&#12383;&#12290;
> 
> Japan ODA include &#20870;&#20511;&#27454;, &#28961;&#20767;&#36039;&#37329;&#21332;&#21147;, &#25216;&#34899;&#21332;&#21147; 3 parts.
> &#28961;&#20767;&#36039;&#37329;&#21332;&#21147; and &#25216;&#34899;&#21332;&#21147; are donation.
> 
> &#20870;&#20511;&#27454; is loan.
> Japan give ODA loan to Philippines to buy the ships.It need to Refund .
> ODA cant for Military aid,So Vietnam cant get same loan from ODA for Patrol.
> 
> idiot Beggar.
> 
> Your Government Refund Japan ODA loan per year,but you think its donation.



China received huge amount ODA money from Japan, China is biggest idiot beggar in the world.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## hurt

EastSea said:


> What kind of strokes here, it's cooperation for assistance, in case of don't have a benefit, no one in the world received ODA from Japan other than Japan Govt can forgive the debt in future. It's nature ODA loan, understand ?



Japan Govt forgive the debt total 7 billion from 2003 until 2012 &#65292;Excluded Philippines and Vietnam.
???: [ODA] ODA????????????????????????????

&#12288;Because you do not belong to Heavily Indebted Poor Countries

MOFA: Japan's Comprehensive Plan for Development and Debt Relief for Heavily Indebted Poor Countries



EastSea said:


> China received huge amount ODA money from Japan, China is biggest idiot beggar in the world.



ODA for China stop from 2007. your beggar 
And we never drean in Japan Govt can forgive the debt


----------



## EastSea

hurt said:


> Japan Govt forgive the debt total 7 billion from 2003 until 2012 &#65292;Excluded Philippines and Vietnam.
> ???: [ODA] ODA????????????????????????????
> 
> &#12288;Because you do not belong to Heavily Indebted Poor Countries
> 
> MOFA: Japan's Comprehensive Plan for Development and Debt Relief for Heavily Indebted Poor Countries
> 
> 
> 
> ODA for China stop from 2007. your beggar
> And we never drean in Japan Govt can forgive the debt



Don't try to deny the truth, China is biggest beggar to Japan.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## hurt

EastSea said:


> Don't try to deny the truth, China is biggest beggar to Japan.



You are beggar now


----------



## EastSea

hurt said:


> You are beggar now



They have been did a servey and submitted proposal first to us for cooperation for both side interest, it's a different.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## hurt

EastSea said:


> They have been did a servey and submitted proposal first to us for cooperation for both side interest, it's a different.



The only purpose of Developed country loan to Developing country is own more money.
different?Do not be naive


----------



## EastSea

hurt said:


> The only purpose of Developed country loan to Developing country is own more money.
> different?Do not be naive



It's nothing wrong if we can earn also more money than nothing, understand ?


----------



## hurt

EastSea said:


> It's nothing wrong if we can earn also more money than nothing, understand ?



Are you a Martian?


----------



## Soryu

What's bullshjt troll over here...???

Stop it boys....

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

hurt said:


> Can you read it ?
> Can you understand what japanese officer talk about?
> Wake up from your dream,poor beggar
> [/URL]


Arrogance is a dead sin, you idiot.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## EastSea

hurt said:


> Are you a Martian?



are you Ah Q ?


----------



## hoangsa

20 May 2013, at 15 degree 21' North, 111 degree 28' East, 130 nautical mile only from Qu&#7843;ng Ngãi. Chinese armed white ship number 32001 and 15 other metal ships bullied only 1 Vietnamese fishing wooden ship. Chinese ships tried to hit to kill.






Serious crack along the boat body because armed Chineses ship hit yesterday.





A deadly attack from the Chinese ship to make this heavy anchor stab deeply into the wooden boat.

See more at http://giaoduc.net.vn/Xa-hoi/Tu-Hoa...Quang-Ngai-bi-uy-hiep-va-dam-toi-ta/298258.gd

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## panyimao

Vietnam is the escape China, sooner or later to destroy your country, and in the forum you can obscenity, the actual situation in your country is a group of scum, so someday our army approaching you know the capital of regret, when too late, quarrel who will, wait, no matter how you say you can not change the fate of nations.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Soryu

panyimao said:


> Vietnam is the escape China, sooner or later to destroy your country, and in the forum you can obscenity, the actual situation in your country is a group of scum, so someday our army approaching you know the capital of regret, when too late, quarrel who will, wait, no matter how you say you can not change the fate of nations.


Did you know how many time your elder want that, dreaming that, and talk about that, huh?
And what's the fact !? Can you tell !?, lol 
Hope you came Vietnam and do it by yourself, bullshjt chinese men ...


----------



## EastSea

panyimao said:


> Vietnam is the escape China, sooner or later to destroy your country, and in the forum you can obscenity, the actual situation in your country is a group of scum, so someday our army approaching you know the capital of regret, when too late, quarrel who will, wait, no matter how you say you can not change the fate of nations.



one more idiot chinese, is mental ill, Japanese will rule you again.


----------



## Eliter

The idea of strong defense is mobility, not being confined in one old rusted cage mark with Bullseye for easy target ....... they were being treated like a circus animals , its inhumane, very amateurish idea. Apparently the AFP and the Commander and Chief has selfish view on humanity.


----------



## Eliter

MANILA, Philippines -- The crews of Chinese fishing vessels that have encroached on Ayungin Reef, part of the Kalayaan Island Group of Palawan, have reportedly begun erecting metal and rope structures, a well-placed source told InterAksyon on Thursday.

&#8220;There are five to eight Chinese fishing vessels that entered our reef conducting surveys inside our Ayungin Reef. Our latest report is that the Chinese were unloading big ropes and planting metal structures on our reef,&#8221; the source, a ranking military officer who spoke on condition he was not named, said.


----------



## Eliter

Filipino fishermen pay price of sea disputes
MASINLOC, Zambales&#8212;Along the northwestern coast of Luzon, poor children with claw hammers clamber aboard an abandoned fishing vessel to pry loose and steal rusty nails from its deck. It&#8217;s become a familiar sight in villages where some fishermen have been forced to give up their livelihoods since China took control of their fishing haven last year.
Fishermen say Chinese maritime surveillance ships have shooed them off Panatag Shoal (Scarborough Shoal) in the West Philippine Sea (South China Sea) and roped off the entrance to the vast lagoon that had been their fishing paradise for decades.
Now, they say, they can&#8217;t even count on the Chinese to give them shelter there from a potentially deadly storm.
Some have paddled back in dugouts to sneak into the lagoon&#8212;teeming with pricey yellowfin and skipjack tuna, red grouper, blue marlin and lobster&#8212;while their mother boats hide from a distance.

But other Filipino fishermen in the northwestern towns of Masinloc in Zambales province and Infanta in Pangasinan province have sold their boats, or simply abandoned them on the coast, and turned to other work, including raising pigs in their backyards.

Fish trader Joey Legazpi has sold most of his 12 outrigger boats, which largely depended on Panatag&#8217;s pristine fishing waters, and opened a small food store in Infanta.

&#8220;It&#8217;s gone,&#8221; Legazpi said, noting that the Philippines&#8217; ill-equipped forces are no match for China&#8217;s mammoth military. &#8220;We&#8217;ve lost hope we can get Panatag back.&#8221;

Territorial conflicts

Large swarms of fishing fleets are getting entangled in an expanding labyrinth of Asian territorial conflicts.

The stakes are rising as China and other rival claimants in the West Philippine Sea pour more air, naval and paramilitary forces into the area, increasing the risk of confrontations.

Chinese maritime surveillance ships took control of Panatag Shoal, which Beijing calls Huangyan Island, and roped off the entrance to its vast fishing lagoon following a two-month standoff with Philippine government ships last year.

The chain of reefs and rocks 230 kilometers west of Zambales falls under its 370-km exclusive economic zone, Filipino officials say.

The area lies about 870 km from China&#8217;s nearest coast. Some other islands in the West Philippine Sea claimed by China are much closer than that, but those are also claimed by other countries, including Taiwan and Vietnam.

Many other areas of the sea are volatile. Vietnam lodged a protest in March after claiming its fishermen were fired upon by a Chinese ship, damaging their boat.

Two weeks ago, Filipino coast guards killed a Taiwanese fisherman in a confrontation with a fishing vessel. Manila has apologized but Taiwan has retaliated by freezing jobs for Filipinos, recalling its envoy and cutting trade exchanges.

Positions hardened

Ian Storey, senior fellow at the Institute of Southeast Asian Studies in Singapore, said rival claimants had hardened their positions and tried to bolster their sovereignty claims through national legislation or before the United Nations.

Beijing, which has aggressively asserted claims to virtually the entire sea and separately to a string of East China Sea islands it contests with Japan, has turned to administrative acts and chased away fishermen it accuses of intrusion.

&#8220;The prospect of a resolution to the various disputes in the [West Philippine Sea] is very dim,&#8221; Storey said.

Filipino fishermen in Masinloc and Infanta who had journeyed to Panatag Shoal for years told The Associated Press that Chinese surveillance ships had driven them away and pursued them in dangerous cat-and-mouse chases.

&#8220;Our fishermen have become scared,&#8221; said Mayor Desiree Edora of Masinloc, a fishing town that claims jurisdiction over the shoal.

&#8220;What power do they have? The other side has (defense) equipment and what do the fishermen have? Only Styrofoam, ice and so forth&#8212;so what they did was to leave to save their lives,&#8221; she said.

Alarmed by the recent territorial tensions, Southeast Asian countries have sought a legally binding code of conduct with China to discourage belligerent behavior and prevent fighting.

But Beijing has not clearly said so far when it would sit down to discuss the proposal.

Chased away

Joynes Pursines, skipper of the Queen Kim Urich, said that he and his men were chased away from Panatag Shoal three times late last year.

At one point, he said, his outrigger boat was hemmed in by two ships, their deafening horn blowing repeatedly close by and the Chinese waving red flags.

&#8220;We thought they&#8217;d ram us,&#8221; he said. The Chinese ships chased him for about 5.5 km and backed away when Pursines&#8217; ship was about 18 km from the shoal.

Legazpi said the dispute over the shoal put the lives of their fishermen at risk when fierce monsoon winds threatened to lash their boats late last year.

They could not enter the shallow, calm waters of Panatag Shoal&#8217;s 130-sq-km lagoon, because Chinese surveillance ships stood guard nearby.

&#8220;How can they do that when it&#8217;s the law of the sea that people in distress should be helped?&#8221; Legazpi asked.

&#8220;My men just returned home and cut short their fishing trip. Nobody wanted to go missing at sea because there won&#8217;t be any death certificate and their families wouldn&#8217;t get any benefit,&#8221; he said.

He said seven of his fishermen disappeared when a storm hit the shoal in 2005.

The Associated Press sought comment on the fishermen&#8217;s claims from the Chinese foreign ministry in Beijing but it did not reply.

Philippine officials have protested China&#8217;s blockade of the lagoon.

Making ends meet

Macario Forones, a fish trader in Masinloc, is now among those who are raising pigs to make ends meet.

&#8220;I used to have up to 60 fishermen working with me. Now all of them are gone,&#8221; he said.

He sent outrigger boats into the shoal for a time, but stopped after the Chinese moved their ships to discourage such efforts.

But Forones is not giving up. He had his outrigger boat reinforced, hoping he will soon be able to send it back to the shoal.

His boat stood brightly with a new coat of white and orange paint on Masinloc&#8217;s coast as a nearby abandoned vessel rotted under the sun.


----------



## Eliter

EDITORIAL - Creeping occupation 
What is ours is ours, the President and commander-in-chief said at the anniversary of the 115-year-old Philippine Navy. His defense chief echoed the statement yesterday, vowing that the Armed Forces of the Philippines would &#8220;fight to the last soldier&#8221; for &#8220;what is ours.&#8221;

&#8220;Ours&#8221; refers to Ayungin Reef in the Spratlys &#8211; part of Palawan&#8217;s Kalayaan Island Group &#8211; which is now reportedly surrounded by Chinese fishing and maritime surveillance vessels. The Chinese maneuver, reported a few days ago, is reminiscent of their creeping occupation of Panganiban or Mischief Reef near Ayungin starting in 1993, and of Panatag or Scarborough Shoal off Zambales starting last year.

The reefs are all a long way from China&#8217;s 200-mile exclusive economic zone, but the world&#8217;s second largest economy is using its wealth to build up its defense capability and aggressively stake its claim over nearly the entire waters around it. If China could find a way to include Palawan&#8217;s Tubbataha Reef within its bizarre &#8220;nine-dash line&#8221; &#8211; the area that it claims as its maritime territory, which at low tide could include the beaches of its Southeast Asian neighbors &#8211; it would do so, the better to harvest endangered sea turtles and scaly anteaters.

Even if the nine-dash line cannot be extended to Tubbataha in the Sulu Sea, the Chinese can stake a claim on other reefs and islets dotting the West Philippine Sea. The Philippines will have to do more than talk tough to stop the Chinese. Already, Filipino fishermen have been forced out of their traditional fishing grounds off Zambales by Chinese vessels, and the same is now happening in Ayungin.

By the time the case brought by Manila to the United Nations for arbitral proceedings is settled, the Chinese would have occupied more spits of rock and coral in Philippine waters &#8211; and there is no assurance that they would abide by any UN ruling that favors the Philippines.

No one is coming to help the Philippines shoo away intruders: not Uncle Sam, not other Western countries, and not the other members of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations. All of these countries have an interest in staying on the good side of Beijing. We are on our own here. If we assert that &#8220;what is ours is ours,&#8221; we should go beyond bluster; the AFP should do a better job of upholding national sovereignty over Philippine territory.

Foreign ships harass mayor of disputed isle

PUERTO PRINCESA CITY&#8212;The mayor of Kalayaan town in Palawan was harassed by two unidentified vessels while traveling with around 200 others by sea toward midnight on Thursday.

Mayor Eugenio Bito-onon of Kalayaan, which governs Pag-asa and four other islets in the Spratlys claimed by the Philippines, said they left Pag-asa Island on Wednesday, two days after casting their votes.

He said they were on their way to Puerto Princesa, about 280 nautical miles away, on board a municipal boat and passing by the Ayungin Shoal when the two vessels approached them.

Ayungin Shoal is about 100 nautical miles from Pag-asa and near Mischief Reef, which is occupied by China.

The vessels looked like big military naval vessels, said Bito-onon, who arrived here Friday afternoon.

He said the vessels came as close as 30 meters, following them for about an hour with heavy


----------



## Eliter

Philippines vows to defend territory against China

The Philippines vowed Thursday to fight China "to the last man standing", as a Chinese warship patrolled around a remote reef occupied by a handful of Filipino marines in disputed waters.

In the latest flare-up over competing claims to parts of the South China Sea, the Philippines this week denounced the "provocative and illegal presence" of the warship and a fleet of Chinese fishing vessels near Second Thomas Shoal.

After China brushed off the protest and insisted it owned the tiny reef and islets that are home to rich fishing grounds, the Philippines on Thursday ramped up the rhetoric against its much more powerful rival.

"To the last soldier standing, we will fight for what is ours," Defence Secretary Voltaire Gazmin told reporters when asked if the Philippines would bow to Chinese intimidation and pull its forces from the shoal.

However Gazmin said the Philippines was not intending to send any military reinforcements to the area, and there had been no confrontations between the two sides at the shoal since the Chinese vessels arrived early this month.

Second Thomas Shoal is one of nine Filipino-occupied islands or islets in the Spratly Islands chain.

It lies about 200 kilometres (120 miles) northwest of the Philippine island of Palawan, the nearest major landmass, and more than 1,000 kilometres from China's Hainan island.

The shoal is guarded by a handful of Filipino marines, believed to number fewer than 10, aboard a World War II-era ship that was deliberately grounded there in the late 1990s to serve as a base.

China says it has sovereign rights over nearly all of the South China Sea, even waters far away from its main landmass and approaching the coasts of Southeast Asian countries.

The Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan also claim parts of the sea, and the area has for decades been regarded as a potential trigger for major military conflict in the region.

All claimants, except Brunei, have troops stationed on various islands and atolls in the Spratlys -- the biggest archipelago in the sea -- to assert their claims.

Regional tensions have escalated in recent years as China has taken more aggressive steps to assert its claims to the sea, which is believed to sit atop vast reserves of oil and gas worth billions of dollars.

China has established a new city to oversee the area and deployed navy vessels on wide-ranging patrols of the sea, with its ships reaching as far as 80 kilometres from Malaysia's coast.

China last year also took control of Scarborough Shoal, another bountiful fishing area far closer to the Filipino landmass than China's, after a stand-off between vessels from both countries ended with the Philippines retreating.

Second Thomas Shoal is about 40 kilometres east of Mischief Reef, a Philippine-claimed outcrop that China has occupied since 1995.

Second Thomas Shoal and Mischief Reef are within the Philippines' internationally recognised exclusive economic zone.

"They should not be there. They do not have the right to be there," foreign department spokesman Raul Hernandez told AFP via text message on Thursday when asked the Chinese presence at Second Thomas Shoal.

"No one should doubt the resolve of the Filipino people to defend what is ours in that area."

President Benigno Aquino on Tuesday announced a planned $1.8-billion military upgrade to defend the country's maritime territory against "bullies".

But China's announced defence budget of $115 billion this year is nearly 100 times more than that of the Philippines.


----------



## Eliter

Manila protests against Chinese ships in Nansha Islands

TheN0GJ&#65533;&#65533;Cltested the &#8220;illegal&#8221; presence of a Chinese warship, two surveillance vessels and fishing boats off a shoal in Nansha Islands, the South China Sea, in the latest territorial squabble between the Asian countries, Philippine officials said Tuesday.

Department of Foreign Affairs spokesman Raul Hernandez said the Philippines denounced the "provocative and illegal presence" of Beijing's ships off Ayungin Shoal (China&#8217;s Ren&#8217;ai Reef) in the South China Sea, adding the area is "an integral part of our national territory."

Chinese diplomats did not immediately react to the protest, which Hernandez said was filed two weeks ago at the Chinese Embassy in Manila.

Philippine Defense Secretary Voltaire Gazmin said another protest might be lodged if authorities confirm that two ships which &#8220;chased a Philippine official's ferry boat&#8221; last week were Chinese government vessels.

Ren&#8217;ai Reef is currently under the jurisdiction of Sansha city, which was created last year for the administration of islands in the South China Sea. In May, 1999, after a Philippine landing ship ran aground in the north-west tip of Ren&#8217;ai Reef due to a leak problem, Manila deployed troops to the reef, which has been under its de facto control since. 

(Agencies)


----------



## Eliter

Philippines says to fight China over another reef


2013-05-24 01:33:44 GMT2013-05-24 09:33:44(Beijing Time) SINA.com


The Philippines vowed Thursday to fight China "to the last man standing", as a Chinese warship patrolled around Reai Reef in South China Sea.

In the latest flare-up over competing claims to parts of the South China Sea, the Philippines this week denounced the "provocative and illegal presence" of the warship and a fleet of Chinese fishing vessels near Reai Reef.

After China brushed off the protest and insisted it owned the reef and islets that are home to rich fishing grounds, the Philippines on Thursday ramped up the rhetoric against its much more powerful rival.

"To the last soldier standing, we will fight for what is ours," Defence Secretary Voltaire Gazmin told reporters.

However Gazmin said the Philippines was not intending to send any military reinforcements to the area, and there had been no confrontations between the two sides at the reef since the Chinese vessels arrived early this month.

"They should not be there. They do not have the right to be there," foreign department spokesman Raul Hernandez told AFP via text message on Thursday.

"No one should doubt the resolve of the Filipino people to defend what is ours in that area."

Renai Reef is currently under the jurisdiction of Sansha city, which was created last year for the administration of islands in the South China Sea. In May, 1999, after a Philippine landing ship ran aground in the north-west tip of Renai Reef due to a leak problem, Manila deployed troops to the reef, which has been under its de facto control since.

(Agencies)


----------



## Eliter

Taiwanese boat 'not in Philippine waters'

2013-05-21 23:17:49 GMT2013-05-22 07:17:49(Beijing Time) SINA.com


Taiwan released a satellite record of the route of a fishing boat fired on by Philippine coast guards yesterday, flatly rejecting Manila's allegations it had intruded into Philippine waters.

The killing of crew member Hung Shih-cheng, 65, sparked outrage in Taiwan, and a series of economic sanctions against the Philippines.

Taiwan's Fisheries Agency said the voyage data recorder from the fishing boat showed it was not in Philippine waters when it came under fire on May 9.

"The satellite records indicated that the "Guang Ta Hsin 28" had been fishing within Taiwan's exclusive economic zone throughout," the agency's deputy chief Tsay Tzu-yaw said.

The satellite record showed the ship was positioned at 122 degrees and 55 minutes east and 19 degrees and 59 minutes north when it was attacked at 10:12am. The economic zones claimed by the two sides overlap.

"Since the Philippine authorities repeatedly alleged that the fishing boat had intruded into their waters, then why not make public the video records they claim they have taken from the coast guard boat?" Tsay said.

The Philippines said it would make "coordinated efforts" with Taiwan to look into the incident.

Its coast guards claimed that the fishing boat intruded into Philippine waters and tried to ram their vessel, forcing them to open fire.

Taiwan leader Ma Ying-jeou called the killing "cold-blooded murder" after an initial inquiry showed the boat had more than 50 bullet holes and no signs of ramming.

Philippine Justice Secretary Leila de Lima said on Monday that an investigation team would fly to Taiwan to examine the fishing boat and interview survivors.

De Lima said the Taiwanese investigators would be given access to their evidence, including statements from the coast guard.

Philippine President Benigno Aquino has personally apologized for the incident but Taiwan rejected his apology and announced sanctions.

These include a ban on the hiring of new Philippine workers, recalling its envoy and staging a naval drill in waters off the northern Philippines.

Taipei has repeatedly pressed Manila to issue a formal government apology, compensate the fisherman's family and apprehend the killer.

(Agencies)


----------



## Eliter

Filipinos told to limit activities in Taiwan

2013-05-20 06:06:27 GMT2013-05-20 14:06:27(Beijing Time) SINA.com


Philippine authorities have told Filipino workers to limit their activities in Taiwan following the Philippine Coast Guard's slaying of a Taiwanese fisherman.

Violence against Filipinos in Taiwan has escalated since fisherman Hung Shih-chen was killed on May 9.

The violence has prompted Taiwan to freeze hiring new Filipino workers, the Daily Inquirer reported. President Benigno Aquino apologized for the killing, but the Taiwanese found this unacceptable, the Daily Inquirer said.

Antonio Basilio, resident representative of the Manila Economic and Cultural Office (Meco) in Taiwan, issued the advisory to thousands of Filipinos as the numbers of attacks rise on some of the 87,000 Filipinos working in Taipei.

"Basilio issued an advisory to our countrymen to limit their going out," deputy Philippine presidential spokeswoman Abigail Valte said. "They should avoid doing the unnecessary things, in other words, to keep within their workplace and their homes."

Any Filipino maltreated by a Taiwanese employer should promptly contact Meco so officials can work to ensure they get justice, she said.

Meco Chairman Amadeo Perez said the attack on a Filipino by a gang of youths wielding a bat has been confirmed and other cases were being documented.

Taiwanese President Ma Ying-jeou asked Taiwanese to act decently toward Filipinos.

(Agencies)


----------



## Zero_wing

Man this people just can't stop


----------



## Eliter

Taiwan urges joint investigation into fatal shooting

2013-05-19 23:30:46 GMT2013-05-20 07:30:46(Beijing Time) Shanghai Daily


Taiwan yesterday repeated calls for a joint investigation into the killing of a fisherman by Philippine coast guards.

A team of investigators returned to Taiwan on Saturday, accusing the Philippines of failing to honor an agreement on a joint probe.

"The decision to send the investigators to Manila came only after the Philippine government had agreed to let us do so," Chen Ming-tang, Taiwan's deputy justice minister, told reporters.

Chen said a joint inquiry was the only way to establish the truth of the May 9 shooting of Hung Shih-cheng.

"While our investigators can provide them with evidence they have collected, Filipino investigators can come to Taiwan to gather evidence, including talking to the other witnesses on board the fishing boat at the time of the shooting," Chen said.

The coast guard has said the fishing vessel intruded into Philippine waters and tried to ram its patrol boat. Chen denied any intrusion, citing a voyage data recorder on the fishing boat.

Taiwan has rejected Manila's apology and slapped sanctions on the Philippines, including a ban on the hiring of new workers, recalling its representative to Manila and staging a drill in waters off the northern Philippines.

Amadeo Perez, a personal envoy from Philippine President Benigno Aquino was forced to return home last Thursday after Taipei rejected an apology he conveyed from Aquino.

Taipei has repeatedly pressed Manila to issue a formal government apology, to compensate the fisherman's family and to apprehend the killer.

In Manila, Perez said his country was waiting for tempers to cool.

Comments by Taiwanese investigators branding the incident as murder have complicated the situation, Perez, chairman of the Manila Economic and Cultural Office, said.

"We are waiting for the right time because I was told by the secretary-general for Asian affairs, we should wait for the temperature in Taiwan to cool," Perez told DZMM radio.

Perez said Taiwan wanted Aquino personally to write a letter of apology, but this could be considered a violation of Manila's one-China policy.

But he thanked Ma for his promise to protect Filipinos working in Taiwan after a Filipino worker was attacked.


----------



## Eliter

Philippine activity on Ren&#8217;ai Reef draws Chinese caution

2013-05-22 23:42:36 GMT2013-05-23 07:42:36(Beijing Time) Global Times


Chinese navy and marine surveillance forces are closely monitoring activities conducted by the Philippines on a vessel stranded on the Ren'ai Reef in the South China Sea, a source close to the matter told the Global Times.

The Philippines filed a protest with the Chinese embassy in Manila Tuesday that the recent presence of a Chinese warship and two marine surveillance vessels near the reef was "illegal and proactive."

Chinese foreign ministry spokesman Hong Lei responded Wednesday that the Ren'ai Reef is part of China's Nansha Islands, and that China has indisputable sovereignty over them and their adjacent waters, adding that Chinese ships are entitled to regularly patrol there.

The Philippines sent three military vessels on May 9 after spotting the Chinese ships.

The source also told the Global Times that the Philippine vessels carried a large amount of construction materials to repair a worn-out warship that has been stranded there since May 9, 1999 due to an alleged leak at the bottom, adding that the country has been sending garrison soldiers to gain de facto control to the reef and refused to withdraw the ship.

"The ship has been sinking and deteriorating rapidly this year, the Philippines have been trying to fix it to reinforce their control," said the source, adding that the Chinese military is patrolling to prevent further moves.

The Xinhua News Agency earlier reported that a sea-air patrol to the reef was conducted in March.

Zhu Zhenming, a researcher with the Institute of South East Asian Studies at Yunnan Academy of Social Sciences, told the Global Times that the Philippines' tougher attitude over the South China Sea dispute indicates that it felt it had the backing of big powers including the US and Japan.

"Philippine President Benigno Aquino has formed a heroic image and won domestic support by acting tough against China. The economic growth in the past few years also earned him more confidence but the Philippines' military power is still small," said Zhu.

Aquino announced Tuesday he would allocate $1.8 billion to upgrade the country's maritime defense, vowing to protect Philippine sovereignty and resist bullies.


----------



## Eliter

Philippine president orders investigation over Taiwanese fisherman&#8217;s death

2013-05-13 08:20:36 GMT2013-05-13 16:20:36(Beijing Time) SINA.com


Philippine president Benigno Aquino has ordered the Department of Foreign Affairs to make sure that last week&#8217;s killing of a Taiwanese fisherman does not result in unwanted repercussions.

The order came a few days after Taiwan leader Ma Ying-jeou indicated that his government may consider sanctions against the Philippines following the &#8220;brutal, cold-blooded&#8221; murder of an unarmed Taiwanese fisherman.

At the same time, Aquino noted that the commander of the Coast Guard vessel involved in the shooting has already arrived in Manila to undergo investigation.

"Our Department of Foreign Affairs is in touch with their counterparts precisely not let the incident have repercussions not wanted by any sector," Aquino said in an interview in Tarlac aired over state-run Radyo ng Bayan on Monday.

"We will review if all the processes were correct," he added.

The President, however, declined to answer questions on the ultimatum Taipei reportedly gave the Philippines to make a formal apology and compensation to the family of Hung Shih-Cheng, the 65-year-old fisherman who was killed last week off the waters of Batanes.

"That is not the report that we have been receiving from MECO (Manila Economic Cooperation Office)," he said.

According to Taiwan's Central News Agency, MECO resident representative Antonio Basilio traveled to the Liouchiou Island in the southern region to personally apologize and offer his condolences of Hung's family over the weekend.

"Speaking through an interpreter, Basilio said the incident resulted from a misunderstanding," the CNA report said.

(Agencies)


----------



## Eliter

Philippine Coast Guard admits killing Taiwanese fisherman

2013-05-10 05:38:24 GMT2013-05-10 13:38:24(Beijing Time) SINA.com


The Philippine Coast Guard on Friday admitted responsibility for the death of a Taiwanese fisherman the day before, but said its personnel acted in self-defense when the foreign fishing vessel attempted to ram one of its ships.

A report by Radio Station DZMM said PCG commandant Admiral Rodolfo Isorena has ordered a thorough investigation of the incident in which Taiwanese fisherman as Hung Shih-Cheng, 65, died.

The report said the Coast Guard ship BFAR MCS 3001 fired at the fishing vessel "Guang Ta Hsin 28" which had a crew of three Taiwanese and an Indonesian.

The PCG ship was attempting to accost the Guang Ta Hsin 28 and two other Taiwanese vessels.

However, the Guang Ta Hsin 28 reportedly headed for the PCG vessel to ram it, prompting its crew to open fire.

Earlier, Chinese media reported the incident involved the Philippine Navy.

The Navy denied any involvement and said all vessels of Naval Forces Northern Luzon were in port at Subic or in Sual, Pangasinan.

"The Philippine Navy denies any involvement in, much as we were saddened by, the news about an incident where a Taiwanese fisherman was reportedly shot and the wound led to his death," Navy spokesman Colonel Edgard Arevalo, said.

A report run by the Chinese news agency Xinhua, quoted Tsay Tzu-yaw, deputy head of Taiwan's fishery administration, as saying a Philippine military ship opened fire on the fishing boat some 180 nautical miles off Erluanbi, the southernmost tip of Taiwan.

The Xinhua report also said the Filipino ship continued to chase and fire at the fleeing Taiwanese vessel, which sustained heavy damage.

&#8220;We strongly protest and condemn that a Philippine government boat attacked our fishing boat and demand the Philippines formally apologize, apprehend the murderer and compensate,&#8221; a statement from Taiwan authorities said.

Asked about the report, Philippine Foreign Secretary Albert del Rosario said: "We cannot confirm it. We will check that."

The Philippine Navy on Friday denied reports in Chinese media that its personnel killed a Taiwanese fisherman Thursday morning.

(Agencies)


----------



## Eliter

&#38468;&#65306;&#36234;&#21335;&#34892;&#25919;&#21306;&#21010;&#31616;&#34920;&#65288;&#26469;&#28304;&#33258;&#32500;&#22522;&#30334;&#31185;&#65289;

&#20013;&#25991;&#21517;&#31216; &#36234;&#25991;&#21517;&#31216; &#30465;&#20250; &#20154;&#21475; &#38754;&#31215;

&#23433;&#27743;&#30465; T&#7881;nh An Giang &#40857;&#24029;&#24066; 2,099,400 3,406&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;

&#21271;&#27743;&#30465; T&#7881;nh B&#7855;c Giang  &#21271;&#27743;&#24066; 1,522,000 3,822&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;

&#21271;&#27701;&#20214;&#30465; T&#7881;nh B&#7855;c K&#7841;n &#21271;&#27701;&#20214;&#24066; 283,000 4,795&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;

&#34180;&#23534;&#30465; T&#7881;nh B&#7841;c Liêu &#34180;&#23534;&#24066; 756,800 2,521&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;

&#21271;&#23425;&#30465; T&#7881;nh B&#7855;c Ninh &#21271;&#23425;&#24066; 957,700 804&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;

&#24052;&#22320;&#22836;&#39039;&#30465; T&#7881;nh Bà R&#7883;a &#8211; V&#361;ng Tàu &#22836;&#39039;&#24066; 839,000 1,975&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;

&#27103;&#26917;&#30465; T&#7881;nh B&#7871;n Tre &#27103;&#26917;&#24066; 1,308,200 2,287&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;

&#24179;&#23450;&#30465; T&#7881;nh Bình &#272;&#7883;nh &#24402;&#20161;&#24066; 1,481,000 6,076&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;

&#24179;&#38451;&#30465; T&#7881;nh Bình D&#432;&#417;ng &#22303;&#40857;&#26408;&#24066; 768,100 2,696&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;

&#24179;&#31119;&#30465; T&#7881;nh Bình Ph&#432;&#7899;c &#19996;&#24069;&#24066; 708,100 6,856&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;

&#24179;&#39034;&#30465; T&#7881;nh Bình Thu&#7853;n &#34281;&#20999;&#24066; 1,079,700 7,828&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;

&#37329;&#29935;&#30465; T&#7881;nh Cà Mau &#37329;&#29935;&#24066; 1,158,000 5,192&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;

&#33465;&#33524;&#24066;&#65288;&#30452;&#36758;&#24066;&#65289; Thành ph&#7889; C&#7847;n Th&#417; 1,112,000 1,390&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;

&#39640;&#24179;&#30465; T&#7881;nh Cao B&#7857;ng &#39640;&#24179;&#24066; 501,800 6,691&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;

&#22810;&#20048;&#30465; T&#7881;nh &#272;&#259;k L&#259;k &#37030;&#32654;&#34560;&#24066; 1,667,000 13,062&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;

&#24471;&#20892;&#30465; T&#7881;nh &#272;&#259;k Nông &#22025;&#20041;&#24066; 363,000 6,514&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;

&#23704;&#28207;&#65288;&#30452;&#36758;&#24066;&#65289; Thành ph&#7889; &#272;à N&#7861;ng 715,000 1,256&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;


----------



## HongWu

hoangsa said:


> 20 May 2013, at 15 degree 21' North, 111 degree 28' East, 130 nautical mile only from Qu&#7843;ng Ngãi. Chinese armed white ship number 32001 and 15 other metal ships bullied only 1 Vietnamese fishing wooden ship. Chinese ships tried to hit to kill.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Serious crack along the boat body because armed Chineses ship hit yesterday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A deadly attack from the Chinese ship to make this heavy anchor stab deeply into the wooden boat.
> 
> See more at T


China is attacking Vietnamese and Filipinos because you are our enemies. I can't wait until Vietnam tries to make a move on the Sino-Vietnamese border then our PLA armored divisions will roll into Hanoi


----------



## Eliter

&#20013;&#25991;&#21517;&#31216; &#36234;&#25991;&#21517;&#31216; &#30465;&#20250; &#20154;&#21475; &#38754;&#31215;

&#22880;&#36793;&#30465; T&#7881;nh &#272;i&#7879;n Biên &#22880;&#36793;&#24220;&#24066; 440,300 8,544&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;

&#21516;&#22856;&#30465; T&#7881;nh &#272;&#7891;ng Nai &#36793;&#21644;&#24066; 2,067,200 5,895&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;

&#21516;&#22612;&#30465; T&#7881;nh &#272;&#7891;ng Tháp &#39640;&#23725;&#24066; 1,592,600 3,238&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;

&#22025;&#33713;&#30465; T&#7881;nh Gia Lai &#27874;&#26469;&#21476;&#24066; 1,048,000 15,496&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;

&#27827;&#27743;&#30465; T&#7881;nh Hà Giang &#27827;&#27743;&#24066; 625,700 7,884&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;

&#28023;&#38451;&#30465; T&#7881;nh H&#7843;i D&#432;&#417;ng &#28023;&#38451;&#24066; 1,670,800 1,648&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;

&#28023;&#38450;&#24066; &#65288;&#30452;&#36758;&#24066;&#65289; Thành ph&#7889; H&#7843;i Phòng 1,711,100 1,503&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;

&#27827;&#21335;&#30465; T&#7881;nh Hà Nam &#24220;&#37324;&#24066; 800,400 849&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;

&#27827;&#20869;&#24066; &#65288;&#30452;&#36758;&#24066;&#65289; Th&#7911; &#273;ô Hà N&#7897;i 2,154,900 921&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;

&#27827;&#35199;&#30465; T&#7881;nh Hà Tây &#27827;&#19996;&#24066; 2,432,000 2,192&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;

&#27827;&#38745;&#30465; T&#7881;nh Hà T&#297;nh &#27827;&#38745;&#24066; 1,284,900 6,056&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;

&#21644;&#24179;&#30465; T&#7881;nh Hòa Bình &#21644;&#24179;&#24066; 774,100 4,663&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;


----------



## Eliter

&#20013;&#25991;&#21517;&#31216; &#36234;&#25991;&#21517;&#31216; &#30465;&#20250; &#20154;&#21475; &#38754;&#31215;
&#32993;&#24535;&#26126;&#24066; &#65288;&#30452;&#36758;&#24066;&#65289; Thành ph&#7889; H&#7891; Chí Minh 5,378,100 2,095&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;

&#21518;&#27743;&#30465; T&#7881;nh H&#7853;u Giang &#28205;&#28165;&#24066; 766,000 1,608&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;

&#20852;&#23433;&#30465; T&#7881;nh H&#432;ng Yên &#20852;&#23433;&#24066; 1,091,000 928&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;

&#24198;&#21644;&#30465; T&#7881;nh Khánh Hòa &#33469;&#24196;&#24066; 1,066,300 5,197&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;

&#24314;&#27743;&#30465; T&#7881;nh Kiên Giang &#36842;&#30707;&#24066; 1,542,800 6,269&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;

&#26118;&#23913;&#30465; T&#7881;nh Kon Tum &#26118;&#23913;&#24066; 330,700 9,615&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;

&#33713;&#24030;&#30465; T&#7881;nh Lai Châu &#33713;&#24030;&#24066; 227,600 7,365&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;

&#26519;&#21516;&#30465; T&#7881;nh Lâm &#272;&#7891;ng &#22823;&#21499;&#24066; 1,049,900 9,765&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;

&#35845;&#23665;&#30465; T&#7881;nh L&#7841;ng S&#417;n &#35845;&#23665;&#24066; 715,300 8,305&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;

&#32769;&#34903;&#30465; T&#7881;nh Lào Cai &#32769;&#34903;&#24066; 616,500 8,057&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;

&#38534;&#23433;&#30465; T&#7881;nh Long An &#26032;&#23433;&#24066; 1,384,000 4,492&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;

&#21335;&#23450;&#30465; T&#7881;nh Nam &#272;&#7883;nh &#21335;&#23450;&#24066; 1,916,400 1,637&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;

&#20041;&#23433;&#30465; T&#7881;nh Ngh&#7879; An &#33635;&#24066; 2,913,600 16,487&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;

&#23425;&#24179;&#30465; T&#7881;nh Ninh Bình &#23425;&#24179;&#24066; 891,800 1,382&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;

&#23425;&#39034;&#30465; T&#7881;nh Ninh Thu&#7853;n &#34281;&#26391;-&#22612;&#21344;&#24066; 531,700 3,360&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;

&#23500;&#23551;&#30465; T&#7881;nh Phú Th&#7885; &#36234;&#27744;&#24066; 1,288,400 3,519&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;

&#23500;&#23433;&#30465; T&#7881;nh Phú Yên &#32485;&#21644;&#24066; 811,400 5,045&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;

&#24191;&#24179;&#30465; T&#7881;nh Qu&#7843;ng Bình &#27934;&#28023;&#24066; 812,600 8,025&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;

&#24191;&#21335;&#30465; T&#7881;nh Qu&#7843;ng Nam &#19977;&#23696;&#24066; 1,402,700 10,408&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;

&#24191;&#20041;&#30465; T&#7881;nh Qu&#7843;ng Ngãi &#24191;&#20041;&#24066; 1,206,400 5,135&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;

&#24191;&#23425;&#30465; T&#7881;nh Qu&#7843;ng Ninh &#19979;&#40857;&#24066; 1,029,900 5,899&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;

&#24191;&#27835;&#30465; T&#7881;nh Qu&#7843;ng Tr&#7883; &#19996;&#27827;&#24066; 588,600 4,746&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;

&#26388;&#24196;&#30465; T&#7881;nh Sóc Tr&#259;ng &#26388;&#24196;&#24066; 1,213,400 3,223&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;

&#23665;&#33821;&#30465; T&#7881;nh S&#417;n La &#23665;&#33821;&#24066; 922,200 14,055&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;

&#35199;&#23425;&#30465; T&#7881;nh Tây Ninh &#35199;&#23425;&#24066; 989,800 4,028&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;

&#22826;&#24179;&#30465; T&#7881;nh Thái Bình &#22826;&#24179;&#24066; 1,814,700 1,542&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;

&#22826;&#21407;&#30465; T&#7881;nh Thái Nguyên &#22826;&#21407;&#24066; 1.046.000 3.563&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;

&#28165;&#21270;&#30465; T&#7881;nh Thanh Hóa &#28165;&#21270;&#24066; 3,509,600 11,106&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;

&#25215;&#22825;&#39034;&#21270;&#30465; T&#7881;nh Th&#7915;a Thiên &#8211; Hu&#7871; &#39034;&#21270;&#24066; 1,078,900 5,009&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;

&#21069;&#27743;&#30465; T&#7881;nh Ti&#7873;n Giang &#32654;&#33659;&#24066; 1,635,700 2,367&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;

&#33590;&#33635;&#30465; T&#7881;nh Trà Vinh &#33590;&#33635;&#24066; 989,000 2,226&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;

&#23459;&#20809;&#30465; T&#7881;nh Tuyên Quang &#23459;&#20809;&#24066; 692,500 5,868&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;

&#27704;&#38534;&#30465; T&#7881;nh V&#297;nh Long &#27704;&#38534;&#24066; 1,023,400 1,475&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;

&#27704;&#31119;&#30465; T&#7881;nh V&#297;nh Phúc &#27704;&#23433;&#24066; 1,115,700 1,371&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;

&#23433;&#27803;&#30465; T&#7881;nh Yên Bái &#23433;&#27803;&#24066; 699,900 6,883&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Eliter

&#25105;&#22269;&#26631;&#20934;&#22320;&#21517; &#36234;&#21335;&#20266;&#31216;

&#35199;&#27801;&#32676;&#23707; &#40644;&#27801;&#32676;&#23707;&#65288;Q&#272; Hoàng Sa&#65289;

&#21271;&#30977; &#21271;&#28393;&#65288;bãi &#273;a B&#7855;c&#65289;

&#35199;&#27801;&#27954; &#26408;&#23707;&#65288;&#273;&#7843;o Cây&#65289;

&#36213;&#36848;&#23707; &#21271;&#23707;&#65288;&#273;&#7843;o B&#7855;c&#65289;

&#20013;&#23707; &#20013;&#23707;&#65288;&#273;&#7843;o Trung&#65289;

&#21335;&#23707; &#21335;&#23707;&#65288;&#273;&#7843;o Nam&#65289;

&#35199;&#26032;&#27801;&#27954; &#35199;&#27801;&#27954;&#65288;c&#7891;n cát Tây&#65289;

&#27704;&#20852;&#23707; &#23500;&#26519;&#23707;&#65288;&#273;&#7843;o Phú Lâm&#65289;

&#38134;&#30782;&#28393; &#24179;&#23665;&#28393;&#65288;bãi Bình S&#417;n&#65289;

&#19996;&#23707; &#28789;&#26118;&#23707;&#65288;&#273;&#7843;o Linh Côn&#65289;

&#39640;&#23574;&#30707; &#30707;&#22612;&#65288;hòn Tháp&#65289;


----------



## Eliter

&#29577;&#21828;&#30977; &#29141;&#23376;&#30710;&#65288;&#273;á Chim Én&#65289;

&#28010;&#33457;&#30977; &#39134;&#28010;&#30707;&#65288;&#273;á Bông Bay&#65289;

&#20840;&#23500;&#23707; &#27779;&#33457;&#23707;&#65288;&#273;&#7843;o &#7888;c Hoa&#65289;

&#29642;&#29786;&#23707; &#40644;&#27801;&#23707;&#65288;&#273;&#7843;o Hoàng Sa&#65289;

&#29976;&#27849;&#23707; &#21451;&#26085;&#23707;&#65288;&#272;. H&#7919;u Nh&#7853;t&#65289;

&#37329;&#38134;&#23707; &#20809;&#26144;&#23707;&#65288;&#272;. Quang Ánh&#65289;

&#30707;&#23679; &#38256;&#20992;&#23679;&#65288;&#272;. L&#432;&#7905;i Li&#7873;m&#65289;

&#26187;&#21375;&#23707; &#21807;&#26790;&#23707;&#65288;&#272;. Duy M&#7897;ng&#65289;

&#29723;&#33322;&#23707; &#20809;&#21644;&#23707;&#65288;&#272;. Quang Hòa&#65289;

&#21326;&#20809;&#30977; &#20984;&#30707;&#65288;&#273;á L&#7891;i&#65289;

&#30424;&#30707;&#23679; &#30333;&#40863;&#23707;&#65288;&#272;. B&#7841;ch Quy&#65289;

&#20013;&#24314;&#23707; &#30693;&#23562;&#23707;&#65288;&#272;. Tri Tôn&#65289;


----------



## Eliter

&#21335;&#27801;&#32676;&#23707; &#38271;&#27801;&#32676;&#23707;&#65288;Q&#272; Tr&#432;&#7901;ng Sa&#65289;

&#21271;&#23376;&#23707;&#65288;&#33778;&#21344;&#65289; &#19996;&#21452;&#23376;&#23707;&#65288;&#273;&#7843;o Song T&#7917; &#272;ông&#65289;

&#21335;&#23376;&#23707;&#65288;&#36234;&#21344;&#65289; &#35199;&#21452;&#23376;&#23707;&#65288;&#273;&#7843;o Song T&#7917; Tây&#65289;

&#27704;&#30331;&#26263;&#27801; &#21449;&#23376;&#28393;&#65288;bãi &#272;inh Ba&#65289;

&#65371;&#27492;&#22788;&#26631;&#20986;&#273;á B&#7855;c&#65288;&#21271;&#30977;&#65289;&#12289;&#273;á Nam&#65288;&#21335;&#30977;&#65289;&#65292;&#273;á Nam&#22312;&#20048;&#26031;&#26263;&#27801;&#30340;&#20301;&#32622;&#19978;&#65292;&#21363;&#22856;&#32599;&#30977;&#65373;

&#22856;&#32599;&#30977;&#65288;&#36234;&#21344;&#65289; &#21335;&#30977;&#65288;&#273;á Nam&#65289;


----------



## Eliter

&#20013;&#19994;&#23707;&#65288;&#33778;&#21344;&#65289; &#35799;&#24605;&#23707;&#65288;&#273;&#7843;o Thi T&#7913;&#65289;

&#38081;&#32447;&#30977; &#24576;&#24681;&#30977;&#65288;&#273;á Hoài Ân&#65289;

&#28186;&#30887;&#30977;&#65288;&#25105;&#22269;&#25511;&#21046;&#65289; &#28186;&#30887;&#30977;&#65288;&#273;á Xu Bi&#65289;

&#33945;&#33258;&#30977; &#23433;&#32769;&#30977;&#65288;&#273;á An Lão&#65289;

&#38271;&#28393; &#27704;&#22909;&#30977;&#65288;&#273;á V&#297;nh H&#7843;o&#65289;

&#26472;&#20449;&#27801;&#27954; &#23433;&#20161;&#27801;&#27954;&#65288;bãi An nh&#417;n&#65289;

&#21335;&#38053;&#23707;&#65288;&#33778;&#21344;&#65289; &#31867;&#27086;&#23707;&#65288;&#273;&#7843;o Lo&#7841;i Ta&#65289;

&#35199;&#26376;&#23707;&#65288;&#33778;&#21344;&#65289; &#27103;&#20048;&#23707;&#65288;&#273;&#7843;o B&#7871;n L&#7841;c&#65289;

&#28779;&#33406;&#30977; &#23567;&#40104;&#30707;&#23707;&#65288;&#272;. &#272;á Nhám&#65289;


----------



## Eliter

&#36153;&#20449;&#23707;&#65288;&#33778;&#21344;&#65289; &#24179;&#21407;&#23707;&#65288;&#273;ão Bình Nguyên&#65289;

&#39532;&#27426;&#23707;&#65288;&#33778;&#21344;&#65289; &#27704;&#36828;&#23707;&#65288;&#273;ão V&#297;nh Vi&#7877;n&#65289;

&#22823;&#28170;&#28393; &#34442;&#23376;&#31389;&#28393;&#65288;bãi T&#7893; Mu&#7895;i&#65289;

&#31036;&#20048;&#28393; &#27700;&#33609;&#28393;&#65288;bãi C&#7887; Rong&#65289;

&#23433;&#22616;&#28393; &#40493;&#22068;&#28393;&#65288;bãi M&#7887; V&#7883;t&#65289;

&#23433;&#22616;&#30977; &#19977;&#26071;&#40060;&#30977;&#65288;&#273;á Ba C&#7901;&#65289;

&#40078;&#34276;&#30977; &#26354;&#35282;&#30707;&#65288;&#273;á Khúc Giác&#65289;

&#21335;&#26041;&#27973;&#28393; &#35199;&#21335;&#27973;&#28393;&#65288;bãi Tây Nam&#65289;


----------



## Eliter

&#20116;&#26041;&#30977;&#65288;&#25105;&#22269;&#25511;&#21046;&#65289; &#28023;&#21442;&#28393;&#65288;bãi H&#7843;i Sâm&#65289;

&#31108;&#27801;&#30977; &#38470;&#27743;&#30977;&#65288;&#273;á L&#7909;c Giang&#65289;

&#19977;&#35282;&#30977; &#40857;&#28023;&#30977;&#65288;&#273;á Long H&#7843;i&#65289;

&#32654;&#27982;&#30977;&#65288;&#25105;&#22269;&#25511;&#21046;&#65289; &#22260;&#24062;&#29615;&#30977;&#65288;&#273;á Vành Kh&#259;n&#65289;

&#23433;&#36798;&#30977;&#65288;&#36234;&#21344;&#65289; &#27877;&#29141;&#65288;&#23433;&#36798;&#65289;&#30977;&#65288;&#273;á Én &#272;&#7845;t&#65289;

&#33334;&#20848;&#30977;&#65288;&#36234;&#21344;&#65289; &#26623;&#23665;&#30977;&#65288;&#273;á Núi Th&#7883;&#65289;

&#25958;&#35878;&#27801;&#27954;&#65288;&#36234;&#21344;&#65289; &#20113;&#38592;&#23707;&#65288;&#273;&#7843;o S&#417;n Ca&#65289;

&#22826;&#24179;&#23707;&#65288;&#25105;&#22269;&#21488;&#28286;&#24403;&#23616;&#25511;&#21046;&#65289; &#24052;&#24179;&#23707;&#65288;&#273;&#7843;o Ba Bình&#65289;

&#40511;&#24229;&#23707;&#65288;&#36234;&#21344;&#65289; &#21335;&#35858;&#23707;&#65288;&#273;&#7843;o Nam Y&#7871;t&#65289;

&#24247;&#20048;&#30977; &#33853;&#30707;&#65288;&#273;á L&#7841;c&#65289;

&#21335;&#34224;&#30977;&#65288;&#25105;&#22269;&#25511;&#21046;&#65289; &#40481;&#28392;&#30707;&#65288;&#273;á Ga Ven&#65289;


----------



## Soryu

Eliter said:


> &#20013;&#25991;&#21517;&#31216; &#36234;&#25991;&#21517;&#31216; &#30465;&#20250; &#20154;&#21475; &#38754;&#31215;
> &#32993;&#24535;&#26126;&#24066; &#65288;&#30452;&#36758;&#24066;&#65289; Thành ph&#7889; H&#7891; Chí Minh 5,378,100 2,095&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;


What's mean when you post that info in this topic?

And stop with chinese in here, this is English forum, so using English, Kid.


----------



## Eliter

&#31119;&#31108;&#23546;&#30977; &#33609;&#26408;&#24217;&#30977;&#65288;&#273;á &#272;&#7873;n Cây C&#7887;&#65289;

&#22823;&#29616;&#30977;&#65288;&#36234;&#21344;&#65289; &#22823;&#30977;&#65288;&#273;á L&#7899;n&#65289;

&#27704;&#26257;&#30977;&#65288;&#25105;&#22269;&#25511;&#21046;&#65289; &#21313;&#23383;&#30977;&#65288;&#273;á Ch&#7919; Th&#7853;p&#65289;

&#26223;&#23439;&#23707;&#65288;&#36234;&#21344;&#65289; &#29983;&#23384;&#23707;&#65288;&#273;ão Sinh T&#7891;n&#65289;

&#39740;&#21898;&#30977;&#65288;&#36234;&#21344;&#65289; &#26519;&#22993;&#23064;&#30977;&#65288;&#273;á Cô Lin&#65289;

&#36196;&#29916;&#30977;&#65288;&#25105;&#22269;&#25511;&#21046;&#65289; &#39740;&#40575;&#35282;&#30977;&#65288;&#273;á G&#7841;c Ma&#65289;

&#29756;&#30977;&#65288;&#36234;&#21344;&#65289; &#24102;&#20992;&#30977;&#65288;&#273;á Len &#272;ao&#65289;

&#28467;&#28330;&#30977; &#19996;&#29983;&#23384;&#23707;&#65288;&#272;. Sinh T&#7891;n &#272;ông&#65289;

&#25153;&#21442;&#30977;  &#23433;&#24179;&#30977;&#65288;&#273;á An Bình&#65289;

&#26579;&#38738;&#27801;&#27954;&#65288;&#36234;&#21344;&#65289; &#24605;&#20041;&#30977;&#65288;&#273;á T&#432; Ngh&#297;a&#65289;

&#29275;&#36717;&#30977; &#19977;&#22836;&#30977;&#65288;&#273;á Ba &#272;&#7847;u&#65289;

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Eliter

Sorry
must have 30 posts in order to post links PIC etc
It is 23.
.....+7


----------



## Eliter

&#20161;&#29233;&#30977;&#65288;&#25105;&#22269;&#25511;&#21046;&#65289; &#33609;&#34276;&#28393;&#65288;bãi C&#7887; Mây&#65289;

&#21322;&#36335;&#30977; &#20315;&#23546;&#30977;&#65288;&#273;á Ph&#7853;t T&#7921;&#65289;

&#20185;&#23486;&#30977; &#27801;&#20853;&#65288;&#20185;&#23486;&#65289;&#28393;&#65288;bãi Sa Bin&#65289;

&#20185;&#23077;&#30977;&#65288;&#25105;&#22269;&#25511;&#21046;&#65289; &#29577;&#27849;&#30977;&#65288;&#273;á Su&#7889;i Ng&#7885;c&#65289;

&#20449;&#20041;&#30977;&#65288;&#25105;&#22269;&#25511;&#21046;&#65289; &#35937;&#29273;&#27849;&#28393;&#65288;bãi Su&#7889;i Ngà&#65289;

&#21322;&#26376;&#30977; &#21322;&#26376;&#28393;&#65288;bãi Tr&#259;ng Khuy&#7871;t&#65289;

&#21496;&#20196;&#30977;&#65288;&#33778;&#21344;&#65289; &#20844;&#24230;&#30977;&#65288;&#273;á Công &#272;o&#65289;


----------



## Eliter

&#26080;&#20060;&#30977;&#65288;&#36234;&#21344;&#65289; &#20185;&#22899;&#30977;&#65288;&#273;á Tiên N&#7919;&#65289;

&#29577;&#35834;&#30977; &#22993;&#23064;&#23665;&#65288;&#273;á Núi Cô&#65289;

&#21335;&#21326;&#30977;&#65288;&#36234;&#21344;&#65289; &#34476;&#40493;&#23665;&#65288;&#273;á Núi Le&#65289;

&#20845;&#38376;&#30977;&#65288;&#36234;&#21344;&#65289; &#36895;&#29642;&#30977;&#65288;&#273;á T&#7889;c Tan&#65289;

&#27605;&#29983;&#30977;&#65288;&#36234;&#21344;&#65289; &#34281;&#33635;&#23707;&#65288;&#273;&#7843;o Phan Vinh&#65289;

&#30707;&#30424;&#20180; &#24930;&#23665;&#65288;&#273;á Núi Mon&#65289;


----------



## Eliter

&#21326;&#38451;&#30977;&#65288;&#25105;&#22269;&#25511;&#21046;&#65289; &#29645;&#29664;&#30977;&#65288;&#273;á Châu Viên&#65289;

&#19996;&#30977;&#65288;&#36234;&#21344;&#65289; &#19996;&#30977;&#65288;&#273;á &#272;ông&#65289;

&#20013;&#30977;&#65288;&#36234;&#21344;&#65289; &#19996;&#38271;&#27801;&#23707;&#65288;&#273;&#7843;o Tr&#432;&#7901;ng Sa &#272;ông&#65289;

&#35199;&#30977;&#65288;&#36234;&#21344;&#65289; &#35199;&#30977;&#65288;&#273;&#7843;o Tây&#65289;

&#21335;&#23041;&#23707;&#65288;&#36234;&#21344;&#65289; &#38271;&#27801;&#23707;&#65288;&#273;&#7843;o Tr&#432;&#7901;ng Sa&#65289;

&#26085;&#31215;&#30977;&#65288;&#36234;&#21344;&#65289; &#32418;&#26408;&#65288;&#25289;&#29305;&#65289;&#30977;&#65288;&#273;á Lát&#65289;


----------



## Eliter

&#26575;&#30977;&#65288;&#36234;&#21344;&#65289; &#28180;&#33337;&#30977;&#65288;&#273;á Thuy&#7873;n Chài&#65289;

&#23433;&#27874;&#27801;&#27954;&#65288;&#36234;&#21344;&#65289; &#23433;&#37030;&#23707;&#65288;&#273;&#7843;o An Bang&#65289;

&#21335;&#28023;&#30977;&#65288;&#39532;&#21344;&#65289; &#22855;&#38395;&#30977;&#65288;&#273;á K&#7923; Vân&#65289;

&#20809;&#26143;&#30977;&#65288;&#39532;&#21344;&#65289; &#27801;&#27849;&#30977;&#65288;&#273;á Su&#7889;i Cát&#65289;

&#24377;&#20024;&#30977;&#65288;&#39532;&#21344;&#65289; &#33446;&#33457;&#30977;&#65288;&#273;á Hoa Lau&#65289;

&#20809;&#26143;&#20180;&#30977;&#65288;&#39532;&#21344;&#65289; &#39556;&#39532;&#30707;&#65288;&#273;á Kiêu Ng&#7921;a&#65289;

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Eliter

&#23433;&#28193;&#28393;&#65288;&#39532;&#21344;&#65289; &#39556;&#39532;&#28393;&#65288;bãi Kiêu Ng&#7921;a&#65289;

&#27014;&#20122;&#26263;&#27801;&#65288;&#39532;&#21344;&#65289; &#25506;&#38505;&#27801;&#27954;&#65288;bãi Thám Hi&#7875;m&#65289;

&#31800;&#31637;&#30977;&#65288;&#39532;&#21344;&#65289; &#24681;&#21152;&#65288;&#38170;&#65289;&#30977;&#65288;&#273;á En Ca&#65289;

&#28010;&#21475;&#30977;&#65288;&#39532;&#21344;&#65289; &#26118;&#34411;&#30977;&#65288;&#273;á Sâu&#65289;

&#19977;&#35282;&#30977;&#65288;&#39532;&#21344;&#65289; &#22025;&#20250;&#30977;&#65288;&#273;á Gia H&#7897;i&#65289;


----------



## Eliter

&#21335;&#34183;&#28393;&#65288;&#36234;&#21344;&#65289; &#20572;&#20113;&#28393;&#65288;bãi V&#361;ng Mây&#65289;

&#34028;&#21187;&#22561;&#65288;&#36234;&#21344;&#65289; &#24052;&#22564;&#30977;&#65288;&#273;á Ba Kè&#65289;

&#37329;&#30462;&#26263;&#27801;&#65288;&#36234;&#21344;&#65289; &#19969;&#27801;&#65288;bãi &#272;inh&#65289;

&#24191;&#38597;&#28393;&#65288;&#36234;&#21344;&#65289; &#31119;&#33805;&#28393;&#65288;bãi Phúc T&#7847;n&#65289;

&#20154;&#39567;&#28393;&#65288;&#36234;&#21344;&#65289; &#29572;&#29645;&#28393;&#65288;bãi Huy&#7873;n Trân&#65289;

&#26446;&#20934;&#28393;&#65288;&#36234;&#21344;&#65289; &#26690;&#22616;&#28393;&#65288;bãi Qu&#7871; &#272;&#432;&#7901;ng&#65289;

&#35199;&#21355;&#28393;&#65288;&#36234;&#21344;&#65289; &#31119;&#21407;&#28393;&#65288;bãi Phúc Nguyên&#65289;

&#19975;&#23433;&#28393;&#65288;&#36234;&#21344;&#65289; &#24605;&#25919;&#28393;&#65288;bãi T&#432; Chính&#65289;

&#30343;&#36335;&#30977; &#28023;&#33609;&#30977;&#65288;&#273;á Sác L&#7889;t&#65289;

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Eliter

Nanhai Islands or South China Sea Islands

P.R.China National Atlas 2000







2255X3200


----------



## Eliter

Dongsha Islands or Pratas Islands

&#19996;&#27801;&#23707; Dongsha Island or Pratas Island
&#19996;&#27801;&#30977; Dongsha Reef

2420X3703


----------



## Eliter

Xisha Islands or Paracel Islands
&#35199;&#27801;&#32676;&#23707;
3785X2986


----------



## Eliter

Zhenghe Qunjiao, Tizzard Bank and Reefs
Jiuzhang Qundjiao, Union Banks and Reef, Union Tablemount
2140X2769


----------



## Viet

Eliter said:


> &#20013;&#25991;&#21517;&#31216; &#36234;&#25991;&#21517;&#31216; &#30465;&#20250; &#20154;&#21475; &#38754;&#31215;
> &#32993;&#24535;&#26126;&#24066; &#65288;&#30452;&#36758;&#24066;&#65289; Thành ph&#7889; H&#7891; Chí Minh 5,378,100 2,095&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;
> 
> &#21518;&#27743;&#30465; T&#7881;nh H&#7853;u Giang &#28205;&#28165;&#24066; 766,000 1,608&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;
> 
> &#20852;&#23433;&#30465; T&#7881;nh H&#432;ng Yên &#20852;&#23433;&#24066; 1,091,000 928&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;
> 
> &#24198;&#21644;&#30465; T&#7881;nh Khánh Hòa &#33469;&#24196;&#24066; 1,066,300 5,197&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;
> 
> &#24314;&#27743;&#30465; T&#7881;nh Kiên Giang &#36842;&#30707;&#24066; 1,542,800 6,269&#24179;&#26041;&#20844;&#37324;
> ...


Welcome to the forum! Thanks for the translations. Just curious, where do you get the info?


----------



## EastSea

Vietnam territories's names can be writing in Han Ji. Here is Map of Great Nam Emperor in ancient time when our ancestor used Han Ji for writing like Japanese use Kan Ji today..







or here, Vietnam territories names were translated and writing with Latin Alphabet.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

HongWu said:


> China is attacking Vietnamese and Filipinos because you are our enemies. I can't wait until Vietnam tries to make a move on the Sino-Vietnamese border then our PLA armored divisions will roll into Hanoi



We can wait until Japanese and their allies tanks will roll in to Peking.


----------



## Eliter

Xisha Islands or Paracel Islands&#35199;&#27801;&#32676;&#23707;
&#27704;&#20048;&#29615;&#30977; Crescent Group
&#37329;&#38134;&#23707; Jinyin Dao, Money Island
&#32666;&#32650;&#30977; Lingyang Jiao, Lin-yang Chiao, Antelope Reef
&#31568;&#20180;&#27801;&#27954; Kuangzai Shazhou 
&#29976;&#27849;&#23707;(round island) Ganquan Dao, Robert Island 
&#29642;&#29786;&#23707; Shanhu Dao, Shan-hu Tao, Pattle Island 
&#20840;&#23500;&#23707; Quanfu Dao 
&#40493;&#20844;&#23707; Yagong Dao 
&#38134;&#23679;Yin Yu (Silver islet), Observation Bank 
&#38134;&#23679;&#20180;Yinyuzai (Silver islet small or junior) 
&#21688;&#33293;&#23679; Xianshe Yu 
&#30707;&#23679;Shi Yu (Stone islet) 
&#26187;&#21375;&#23707;Jinqing Dao, Drummond Island 
&#29723;&#33322;&#23707;(tripod, tripod island big, tripod island) Chenhang Dao, Duncan Island 
&#24191;&#37329;&#23707;(tripod islet, tripod islet small) Guangjin Dao 

3936X3025

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Eliter

Ren'ai Jiao, Second Thomas Reef &#20161;&#29233;&#30977;

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

In ancient time, chinese recognized there is Jiao Zhi Sea, the Sea of Jiao Zhi people (Vietnamese).

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

*Hoang Sa Truong Sa belong to Vietnam.*

Vietnam has sufficient historical and legal evidence to prove its sovereignty over the Hoang Sa (Paracel) and Truong Sa (Spratly) Islands, which the country occupied peacefully in the 17th century and has since exercised its jurisdiction over them.







Monument for Hoang Sa naval fleet. The Fleet established by Nguyen Dynasty Vietnam.

Prior to the 17th century, the two archipelagos belonged to no other nation in the region or from other parts of the world.
After political and historical changes in Vietnam, the region as well as the world in the 20th century, the Hoang Sa islands and part of the Truong Sa archipelago were illegally occupied by many different countries. However, the Vietnamese nation, no matter what regime is in power, has never renounced its sovereignty over both archipelagos and has always asserted they are an inseparable part of Vietnam.
Protecting sovereignty over Hoang Sa and Truong Sa is an important, long-term national cause for Vietnam.
In the island district of Ly Son, Quang Ngai province, there is the historic Am Linh Tu pagoda dedicated to the Hoang Sa naval heroes who sacrificed their lives to assert and protect Vietnam&#8217;s sovereignty over the Hoang Sa islands nearly 300 years ago. Ly Son Island also has a museum and monument for the Hoang Sa naval fleet.
Inside the royal citadel in Hue, there are nine bronze urns cast under the Nguyen Dynasty in the 19th century which are considered Vietnam&#8217;s pictorial encyclopedia. The largest urn, Cao dinh, bears the image of the East Sea with the short, clear caption: Dong Hai (East Sea).
A gallery of Hoang Sa-related documents is located at the Department of Home Affairs of Danang city, where the Hoang Sa island district People&#8217;s Committee is headquartered.
In July 2010, Danang named its two longest and most beautiful roads after the Hoang Sa and Truong Sa islands. Ho Chi Minh City also has Hoang Sa and Truong Sa Roads along Nhieu Loc Canal in Tan Binh District and District 3.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Eliter

EastSea said:


> In ancient time, chinese recognized there is Jiao Zhi Sea, the Sea of Jiao Zhi people (Vietnamese).



Jiao Zhi Sea=Jiao Zhi people (Vietnamese)?!

Sea of Japan=?
South China Sea=?
Indian Ocean=?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Eliter

Nansha Qundao, Nansha Islands, Spratly Islands &#21335;&#27801;&#32676;&#23707;

Nanzi Dao, South-west cay &#21335;&#23376;&#23707;
2950X1825

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Eliter

Nansha Qundao, Nansha Islands, Spratly Islands &#21335;&#27801;&#32676;&#23707;

Shuangzi Qunjiao, the Two Islands, North Danger Reef or N. Danger Cay &#21452;&#23376;&#32676;&#30977;

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

Eliter said:


> Jiao Zhi Sea=Jiao Zhi people (Vietnamese)?!
> 
> Sea of Japan=?
> South China Sea=?
> Indian Ocean=?



Vietnam controlled Islands from ancient time, with out any trouble with Man Quing dynasty China. So chinese called it be course they recognizet that Vietnamese controlled Islands.
Idiot chinese a robbed our Islands with force illegally some of them in 1956, 1974, 1984, 1988 recently.


----------



## EastSea

*1904 China map admits Paracel, Spratly not Chinese territory
*








A Chinese language expert in Vietnam has an official map of China from 1904 that does not show Hoang Sa (Paracel) and Truong Sa (Spratly) islands as belonging to that country.

The map possessed by Mai Hong, former head of the archive at the Han Nom Institute that studies ancient Vietnamese language and its influence by Chinese, for more than 30 years shows Hainan Island as China&#8217;s southernmost tip.

The two archipelagoes off Vietnam&#8217;s central coast are not shown in the map.

But now China claims the islands despite lots of historical evidence showing Vietnam&#8217;s existence on the islands before anyone else.

A Vietnamese map from 1834 includes the two islands.

Hong said the colored-paper map was made during the Qing Dynasty era and published by the Shanghai Publishing House.

Hong said the Chinese descriptions on the map indicate it took from 1708 to 1904, from the time of Emperor Guangxi to that of Guangxu, to complete it.

The kings sent scholars and experts, including Westerners such as Johann Adam Schall von Bell and Ferdinand Verbiest, to all of China's then 13 provinces for the task, he said.

The foreword was written by the then director of an observatory.

Hong had bought the map from a familiar book seller for his institute. &#8220;He showed me the map and suggested that I should buy it. It cost more than my one month salary.&#8221;

On July 4 he handed over the well-preserved, 115 cm x 140 cm map to the Vietnam National History Museum in Hanoi. A handover ceremony is being held Tuesday with several historians attending.

&#8220;I think this map can provide some very good information for Vietnam&#8217;s defense at international negotiations. A proof from China themselves will save us from (verbal) attacks.&#8221;

Vietnam latest news - Thanh Nien Daily | 1904 China map admits Paracel, Spratly not Chinese territory

With narrow-minded nationalism, deception, aggression..., Chinese hope continue to deception international community. action that is trampling on international law of the chinese.


----------



## Eliter

Nansha Qundao, Nansha Islands, Spratly Islands &#21335;&#27801;&#32676;&#23707;

Chigua Jiao, Johnson Reef &#36196;&#29916;&#30977;
Guihan Jiao, Collins Reef &#39740;&#21898;&#30977;
2980X2718

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

*Old western maps: Hoang Sa, Truong Sa belong to Vietnam
*


VietNamNet Bridge &#8211; Many old western maps show that Vietnam has established its sovereignty over the Truong Sa (Spratly) and Hoang Sa (Paracel) archipelagos for over five centuries, said a local researcher.






A map made by Jodocus Hondius in 1613.


Tran Duc Anh Son, Deputy Director of the Danang Institute for Socio-economic Development, said he has collected 56 western maps including one made by Livro da Marinjaria FM Pinnto in 1560, one by Gerard Mercetor in the late 16th century, and another made by Stielers Handatla in 1891.
All the maps, drawn in pictographs or scripts, show that both the Hoang Sa and Truong Sa are part of Vietnam, named Cauchi, Cochi, Cochinchina, or Cochinnhine by Western countries.
In the map made by Jodocus Hondius in 1613, the Frael (Hoang Sa) archipelago includes all the islands from the Tonkin Gulf to Vietnam&#8217;s southern sea, except for Condor (Con Dao) and Pulo Cici (Phu Quoc), which were drawn separately.

In another map drawn by W. Blaeu in 1645, the Frael (Hoang Sa) archipelago is connected with Pulo Secca de Mare (Phu Quy island), Pulo Cambir (Cu Lao Xanh), and Cullo Canton (Ly Son island), creating a group of islands belonging to Dang Trong (Vietnam&#8217;s Southern region).
Especially, the caption Paracel seu Cat Vang (Paracel or Cat Vang) in a map made by Bishop Jean-Louis Taberd, which was written in Han (Chinese), Quoc Ngu (standard Vietnamese) and Latin languages, means that Hoang Sa islands belong to Vietnam.
This means, Son said, many Western cartographers, experts and discoverers have recognized the Hoang Sa archipelago as part of Vietnam, which they called Cochinchine, Cochinchina, or Annam.
These maps are precious documents which confirm Vietnam has long exercised its sovereignty over the Hoang Sa and Truong Sa archipelagos.
VietNamNet/VOV


----------



## Eliter

OK&#65292;I see.....



[/IMG]

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Eliter

EastSea said:


> *Old western maps: Hoang Sa, Truong Sa belong to Vietnam
> *
> 
> 
> VietNamNet Bridge &#8211; Many old western maps show that Vietnam has established its sovereignty over the Truong Sa (Spratly) and Hoang Sa (Paracel) archipelagos for over five centuries, said a local researcher.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A map made by Jodocus Hondius in 1613.
> 
> 
> Tran Duc Anh Son, Deputy Director of the Danang Institute for Socio-economic Development, said he has collected 56 western maps including one made by Livro da Marinjaria FM Pinnto in 1560, one by Gerard Mercetor in the late 16th century, and another made by Stielers Handatla in 1891.
> All the maps, drawn in pictographs or scripts, show that both the Hoang Sa and Truong Sa are part of Vietnam, named Cauchi, Cochi, Cochinchina, or Cochinnhine by Western countries.
> In the map made by Jodocus Hondius in 1613, the Frael (Hoang Sa) archipelago includes all the islands from the Tonkin Gulf to Vietnam&#8217;s southern sea, except for Condor (Con Dao) and Pulo Cici (Phu Quoc), which were drawn separately.
> 
> In another map drawn by W. Blaeu in 1645, the Frael (Hoang Sa) archipelago is connected with Pulo Secca de Mare (Phu Quy island), Pulo Cambir (Cu Lao Xanh), and Cullo Canton (Ly Son island), creating a group of islands belonging to Dang Trong (Vietnam&#8217;s Southern region).
> Especially, the caption Paracel seu Cat Vang (Paracel or Cat Vang) in a map made by Bishop Jean-Louis Taberd, which was written in Han (Chinese), Quoc Ngu (standard Vietnamese) and Latin languages, means that Hoang Sa islands belong to Vietnam.
> This means, Son said, many Western cartographers, experts and discoverers have recognized the Hoang Sa archipelago as part of Vietnam, which they called Cochinchine, Cochinchina, or Annam.
> These maps are precious documents which confirm Vietnam has long exercised its sovereignty over the Hoang Sa and Truong Sa archipelagos.
> VietNamNet/VOV



HERE&#65281; Vietnam Tr&#432;&#7901;ng Sa Hoàng Sa

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

Eliter said:


> OK&#65292;I see.....
> 
> 
> 
> [/IMG]



In old time there is deviation is aceptable, in any case Vietnamese drawn up the Islands closer to main land is to demostration that all the Island in East sea of Vietnam is our territory.

Look here this map made by westerner is not so correct in distance from Main land Vietnam to the Islands. But westerner understood that the Islands belong to Vietnam. Understand idiot Chinese boy ?






Danvilleen's Indochina map in 1735 also demonstrated that Paracel and Spratly Island belong to Vietnam,


----------



## Eliter

EastSea said:


> In old time there is deviation is aceptable, in any case Vietnamese drawn up the Islands closer to main land is to demostration that all the Island in East sea of Vietnam is our territory.
> 
> Look here this map made by westerner is not so correct in distance from Main land Vietnam to the Islands. But westerner understood that the Islands belong to Vietnam. Understand idiot Chinese boy ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Danvilleen's Indochina map in 1735 also demonstrated that Paracel and Spratly Island belong to Vietnam,



This map isn't Vietnamese map.Ancient Vietnamese was idiot thief.


----------



## EastSea

Eliter said:


> This map isn't Vietnamese map.Ancient Vietnamese was idiot thief.



Chinese are idiot sea pirates. Look here, in time of Man Quing Dynasty the "full map" of China with last point is Hainan Island, who is the thief here ? China is the thief, understand ?. Idiot robber, but big mouth.






(I think you can read chinese title of the map)

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## xuxu1457

EastSea said:


> Chinese are idiot sea pirates. Look here, in time of Man Quing Dynasty the "full map" of China with last point is Hainan Island, who is the thief here ? China is the thief, understand ?. Idiot robber, but big mouth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (I think you can read chinese title of the map)


The map is "Dynasty Directly controled area map", 200years ago, useless, at that time Russia is still at EU, US hadn't reach west sea line; In history, VN has been a part of China four times, do you really want back as history???

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Eliter

xuxu1457 said:


> The map is "Dynasty Directly controled area map", 200years ago, useless, at that time Russia is still at EU, US hadn't reach west sea line; In history, VN has been a part of China four times, do you really want back as history???



1911 Vietnam map(Indo-china)





[/IMG]




[/IMG]




[/IMG]

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## EastSea

xuxu1457 said:


> The map is "Dynasty Directly controled area map", 200years ago, useless, at that time Russia is still at EU, US hadn't reach west sea line; In history, VN has been a part of China four times, do you really want back as history???



Idiot boy, it's *full map* of china 1904 year. What does "full map" mean ?
Problem is that chinese are liars about historic evidents. Don't for get that Chinese Canton Governor in 1898 year denied that Paracel belong to China when Japanese ship Imezi Maru was robed in the Paracel region


----------



## EastSea

This map is useless for you to debate, you are idiot boy.
Problem is "map of Great Nam Emperor" was made far more early than it.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## xuxu1457

EastSea said:


> Idiot boy, it's *full map* of china 1904 year. What does "full map" mean ?
> Don't for get that Chinese Canton Governor in 1898 year denied that Paracel belong to China when Japanese ship Imezi Maru was robed in the Paracel region


&#30343;&#26397;&#30452;&#30465;&#22320;&#22495;&#20840;&#22270;--&#30452;&#30465;means-- directely countroled province, begin from Kangxi(1700) to 1904

Ming Dynasty(1368-1644)

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

Eliter said:


> 1911 Vietnam map(Indo-china)
> 
> 
> 
> [/IMG]


This map is okay, re-establishing of Indochina under Vietnamese rule

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

xuxu1457 said:


> &#30343;&#26397;&#30452;&#30465;&#22320;&#22495;&#20840;&#22270;--&#30452;&#30465;means-- directely countroled province, begin from Kangxi(1700) to 1904
> 
> Ming Dynasty(1368-1644)



Good, Paracel and Spratly Islands no controlled by China, so no included.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## xuxu1457

EastSea said:


> Good, Paracel and Spratly Islands no controlled by China, so no included.



Funny, at that time the islands are all uninhabited islands, US is also not included so Us belong to VN, hope you are happy now!!!!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Eliter

Viet said:


> This map is okay, re-establishing of Indochina under Vietnamese rule


======================
under France rule !
Where are Hoang Sa & Truong Sa?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

Eliter said:


> ======================
> under France rule !
> Where are Hoang Sa & Truong Sa?


under Vietnamese rule, dude! First Laos and Cambodia, later others can voluntarily join the "VN friendship club". Why not return to the former status that Vietnam had in ancient times?

Hoang Sa=Paracel islands
Truong Sa=Spratly islands


----------



## EastSea

xuxu1457 said:


> Funny, at that time the islands are all uninhabited islands, US is also not included so Us belong to VN, hope you are happy now!!!!



In the past, our warloard Nguyen Hoang and his descendant ruled South Vietnam and sea area, he created the Flotia with name Hoang Sa and his sailors were responsible to control Hoang Sa and Truong Sa Islands.
In the island district of Ly Son, Quang Ngai province, there is the *historic Am Linh Tu pagoda dedicated to the Hoang Sa naval heroes who sacrificed their lives to assert and protect Vietnam&#8217;s sovereignty over the Hoang Sa islands nearly 300 years ago*. Ly Son Island also has a museum and monument for the Hoang Sa naval fleet.




Eliter said:


> ======================
> under France rule !
> Where are Hoang Sa & Truong Sa?



You have to learn more, kid.
Vietnam was nominally a protectorate where the Nguy&#7877;n Dynasty still ruled, and Tonkin had a French governor with local governments run by Vietnamese officials. Formality, France exersized protectorate on Vietnam, our Ngyen Dynasty Emperor is stil existed until 1945 when Ho Chi Minh has taken the power. Hoang Sa and Truong Sa is controlled by authority related.






Vietnamese are living on Hoang Sa Island in France Colony time.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

xuxu1457 said:


> Funny, at that time the islands are all uninhabited islands, US is also not included so Us belong to VN, hope you are happy now!!!!


Not correct. Paracel and Spratly islands have been inhabited since the Nguyen Dynasty (18 century). China attacked South Vietnam in the moment, when it was weak and engaged in the civil war.


BATTLE FOR THE PARACEL ISLANDS (1974)







South Vietnamese Navy in the battle





CAPTAIN Ha Van Ngac (he died in the battle, his ship HQ-10 was sunk).

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

Chinese naval vessels in the battle of Paracels






South Vietnam vessel


















fallen south Vietnamese soldiers

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

officers of South Vietnam Navy


----------



## Eliter

Xisha Islands or Paracel Islands(&#35199;&#27801;&#32676;&#23707
&#23459;&#24503;&#32676;&#23707; Amphitrite Group&#12290;
&#27704;&#20852;&#23707;&#65306;Woody Island
&#30707;&#23707;&#65306;Rocky Island
&#19971;&#36830;&#23679;&#65306;
&#36213;&#36848;&#23707;&#65306;Tree Island
&#35199;&#27801;&#27954;&#65306;West Sand 
&#38134;&#30782;&#28393;&#65306;Iltis Bank
&#36213;&#36848;&#38376;&#65306;Zappe Pass&#12290;

2532X3736

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

*U.S. newspaper confirms "Spratlys and Paracels belong to Vietnam"*

VietNamNet Bridge &#8211; The American Journal &#8220;Christian Science Monitor&#8221; recently published an article on the collection of maps proving Vietnam&#8217;s sovereignty over the Paracel and Spratly Islands of a Vietnamese American, Mr. Tran Dinh Thang.







This is the first article in the U.S. that has the statement "Paracel and Spratly Islands belong to Vietnam" though it was personally made by Thang.

Thang has collected 150 maps and three Chinese ancient atlases, which indicate that the Paracels and the Spratlys were never a part of China.
Below is the article of Mai Ngoc Chau, who is studying M.A of Journalism in Boston about Thang. 

*Obligation to keep the country*

In 1995 Tran Dinh Thang invited Prof. Tran Van Khe, an expert on traditional Vietnamese music to give a talk at the University of Connecticut (UConn). That summer, the distinguished professor, who taught at the Sorbonne University in Paris, visited the UConn campus.

His talk became part of UConn history. It drew an audience of more than 300, but one-third of them were protesters against Vietnam's government.

At that time Thang was a third-year mechanical engineering student and served as chairman of the Vietnamese Student Association. The incident didn't discourage Thang. Instead, he realized meeting with a Vietnamese cultural icon had aroused his love for his home country. 

"[Professor Khe's] talks gave me inner strength to pursue cultural exchanges," says Thang, who's gone on to host talks on Vietnam at other Connecticut universities, found a Vietnamese magazine, and help Vietnamese students come to the United States to study.

Now his passion for all things Vietnamese has combined with another passion: collecting old maps. Thang has collected 150 ancient Chinese maps and three ancient atlases that indicate that the Paracel and Spratly Islands in the East Sea have never been part of China, as it has long claimed, but instead belong to Vietnam.

Experts on the East Sea say that if the dispute over the islands were taken to the International Court of Justice, Thang's map collection might be used as historical evidence to disprove China's claim.

"As a Vietnamese, I have the obligation to preserve my country," says Thang, who adds that he often finds his inspirations turning into actions "no matter day or night."

Thang arrived in America with his parents in 1991. After settling in West Hartford, Thang continued his studies in mechanical engineering at UConn. He received a second degree in management and engineering before working first for Electric Boat and then Pratt & Whitney.

Last summer, Thang expanded his passion for Vietnamese antiquities into a new area. It drew little interest from fellow collectors, but it made headlines in Vietnam.

One evening last July, Thang checked the news from Vietnam. His eyes landed on a headline that read "Ancient map proves Vietnam's sovereignty over Paracel and Spratly Islands."

He devoured the story. An idea flashed through his mind. He turned to eBay and typed in terms such as "Chinese maps," "Indies maps," and "Hainan Island."

"The story that a researcher in Vietnam found and donated a 1904 Chinese map drawn by the Chinese under the Qing regime from the 18th to 19th century inspired me to search for Chinese maps published by Western countries," Thang says. "Western people's works are often based on scientific grounds, so I think ancient maps they depicted could be scientific evidence to prove Vietnam's sovereignty."

Since that summer evening, Thang has continued his online search, called historians, and consulted East Sea experts from the US to Vietnam. His collection eventually grew to total 150 maps and three atlases. They were published in England, the US, France, Germany, Canada, Scotland, Australia, India, and China from 1626 to 1980.

"Some 80 maps and three atlases indicate the frontier of southern China is Hainan Island, and 50 maps indicate the Paracel and Spratly Islands belong to Vietnam," he says.

"Thang's findings provide us with more scientific and historical evidence to prove Vietnam's sovereignty over Hoang Sa (Paracels) and Truong Sa (Spratlys), and refute China's groundless claim over these two islands," says Dr. Tran Duc Anh Son, deputy head of the Da Nang Institute for Socio-Economic Development.

Thang's collection shows contradictions to China's claim to "indisputable sovereignty" over the islands, adds Carl Thayer, a professor emeritus at the University of New South Wales in Australia and an expert on the East Sea.

*Heart in Vietnam*

Together with friends in 1996 he started a Vietnamese magazine to promote awareness of Vietnam's culture called Nhip Song (Rhythm of Life). The 124-page annual features Vietnamese history, society, literature, and art, and draws on the expertise of many Vietnamese scholars and artists in the US, Vietnam, and elsewhere. The magazine reaches out to Vietnamese-Americans of all political positions.

In 2000 Thang brought his cultural exchanges to a new level. Backed by several high-profile overseas Vietnamese scholars, he founded the Institute for Vietnamese Culture & Education (IVCE). 

Besides presenting cultural programs, his nonprofit group travels to Vietnam to offer workshops on how to participate in student exchanges in the US and assistance with exchange program applications.

"We believe students who have the opportunity to study abroad will bring back with them ideas and concepts from American universities that can contribute to the development of Vietnam," says Thang, who still serves as president of IVCE.

For the past 12 years, Thang has shuttled between the US and Vietnam, holding about 60 summer workshops on "studying in America" with help from hundreds of Vietnamese-Americans, who offer guidance based on their firsthand experiences. Dozens of Vietnamese and US universities have now partnered with IVCE to exchange delegations and establish cooperative programs.

At the same time, IVCE has presented 44 events across the US, introducing audiences to Vietnamese classical music, folk art, painting, literature, documentaries, and feature films.

"He lives in America, but his heart is in Vietnam," says Hong Anh, a movie star and film producer in Vietnam who joined Thang in November 2012 to tour American universities in the Northeast.

"Thang has been devoted to many programs benefiting Vietnam in different ways," says Professor Khe, who has become his mentor. "But he never boasts about what he's done."

Thang says he is glad that last November he donated his map collection on the Paracel and Spratly Islands to the Da Nang Institute for Socio-Economic Development. "No one forced me, but I feel the obligation to work for my country," he says. "It's a mission in my life."

Lao Dong

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ManilaBoy45

Taiwan Protests Philippine Ships in Disputed Sea

PN Vessels on Routine Patrols | GulfNews.com

AFP | Published: 18:48 May 25, 2013

Taipei: Taiwan on Saturday protested to the Philippines for sending naval ships to disputed South China Sea islands in the latest diplomatic spat between the two governments.

The foreign ministry expresses its serious concern and firm opposition over the Philippines dispatch of naval vessels to Renai [Second Thomas] Shoal in the Spratly Islands, it said in a statement.

Taiwans government denies all unlawful claims to sovereignty over, or occupation of, these areas by other countries it said.The statement did not say when and how many Philippine ships were allegedly sent to the area or for how long.


----------



## Eliter

U.S. official naval map (Nautical Charts) confirms "Spratlys belong to China"

Spratlys island and Reef named By Chinese Name

Nautical Charts 93044 93047













Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...-news-discussions-159.html#ixzz2UMY6n78Dnaval

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## EastSea

*Int&#8217;l scholars reject China&#8217;s East Sea demands*


VietNamNet Bridge &#8211; International scholars have presented evidence at a recent workshop in Paris, rejecting China&#8217;s sovereignty claim in the East Sea, especially its U-shaped line.





Da Tay is one of the islands of the Truong Sa archipelago.


About 300 delegates, including many scholars on Asia studies from France and other countries, presented reports on international law, political and economic challenges in the East Sea, and solutions to the ongoing marine dispute in the region.

The presentations concentrated on the role of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) in the matter, the possibility of bringing the case to an international tribunal, or authenticating the historical evidence given by China.

Professor Monique Chemillier Gendreau from the Paris Diderot University in France, Professor Erik Franckx from Vrije University Brussels in Belgium, and Professor David Scott from Brunel University in the UK made an in-depth analysis of China&#8217;s U-shaped line and confirmed that the Chinese map is not in line with international norms and practices. 

Professor Gendreau quoted current international law saying a nation can only claim sovereignty over an island if the island has existed under its jurisdiction for a long time and an administrative system has been established there. 

International law requires clear evidence while Chinese arguments are based on history books or literary works, she said, citing evidence that Vietnam established its administrative organisation to govern the Hoang Sa archipelago from the 18th to the mid 19th century under the French colonialists. 

More importantly, no regional countries objected to the management until the administration of South Vietnam legally took over the group of islands, said the French professor. 

Several French documents show that in the 1930s the Chinese administration was still confused about the Truong Sa archipelago, another group of disputed islands in the East Sea, and did not mention them on its national map. 

Experts confirmed that China&#8217;s wording such as &#8216;adjacent&#8217; or &#8216;historic&#8217; waters are not used in international treaties, including the 1982 Montego Bay Declaration to which China has acceded. 

They once again underlined the importance of the East Sea to global geo-politics and trade, especially regarding the exploitation of large reserves of crude oil, that have prompted a number of countries to enter the dispute. 

In a panel discussion, naval experts and representatives of government officials, including Christian Lechrvy, advisor to French President Francois Hollande, all agreed that the situation in the East Sea is very complex. 

However, they ruled out the possibility of a traditional military clash, reasoning that all regional countries possess modern weapons and none wants to become involved in a confrontation without a high possibility of success. They said the bottom line is finding a common voice amongst all parties concerned. 

Lechervy spoke of the East Sea disputes amongst several regional countries that have been ongoing since 2008 and downplayed worries about a diplomatic impasse. He said multilateral forums will help solve the disputes peacefully. 

Experts stressed that the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) must be observed to define marine boundaries and common fishing grounds, and to conduct joint patrols at sea. 

They called on parties concerned not to build more military bases on disputed islands, and deploy civil and police forces to maintain security instead. 

They held that all parties concerned and other countries like the US and France need to take a constructive attitude and make positive contributions to negotiations in order to ease the situation in the East Sea, which is a common international issue. 

Professor Gendreau even recommended turning the East Sea into an international sea area subject to international law which could benefit all countries concerned and ensure peace throughout the entire region. 

VietNamNet/VOV

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Eliter

Vietnam official map confirms "Spratlys and Paracels belong to China"

Spratlys and Paracels named By Chinese Name

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Eliter

EastSea said:


> *Int&#8217;l scholars reject China&#8217;s East Sea demands*
> 
> 
> VietNamNet Bridge &#8211; International scholars have presented evidence at a recent workshop in Paris, rejecting China&#8217;s sovereignty claim in the East Sea, especially its U-shaped line.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Da Tay is one of the islands of the Truong Sa archipelago.
> 
> 
> About 300 delegates, including many scholars on Asia studies from France and other countries, presented reports on international law, political and economic challenges in the East Sea, and solutions to the ongoing marine dispute in the region.
> 
> The presentations concentrated on the role of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) in the matter, the possibility of bringing the case to an international tribunal, or authenticating the historical evidence given by China.
> 
> Professor Monique Chemillier Gendreau from the Paris Diderot University in France, Professor Erik Franckx from Vrije University Brussels in Belgium, and Professor David Scott from Brunel University in the UK made an in-depth analysis of China&#8217;s U-shaped line and confirmed that the Chinese map is not in line with international norms and practices.
> 
> Professor Gendreau quoted current international law saying a nation can only claim sovereignty over an island if the island has existed under its jurisdiction for a long time and an administrative system has been established there.
> 
> International law requires clear evidence while Chinese arguments are based on history books or literary works, she said, citing evidence that Vietnam established its administrative organisation to govern the Hoang Sa archipelago from the 18th to the mid 19th century under the French colonialists.
> 
> More importantly, no regional countries objected to the management until the administration of South Vietnam legally took over the group of islands, said the French professor.
> 
> Several French documents show that in the 1930s the Chinese administration was still confused about the Truong Sa archipelago, another group of disputed islands in the East Sea, and did not mention them on its national map.
> 
> Experts confirmed that China&#8217;s wording such as &#8216;adjacent&#8217; or &#8216;historic&#8217; waters are not used in international treaties, including the 1982 Montego Bay Declaration to which China has acceded.
> 
> They once again underlined the importance of the East Sea to global geo-politics and trade, especially regarding the exploitation of large reserves of crude oil, that have prompted a number of countries to enter the dispute.
> 
> In a panel discussion, naval experts and representatives of government officials, including Christian Lechrvy, advisor to French President Francois Hollande, all agreed that the situation in the East Sea is very complex.
> 
> However, they ruled out the possibility of a traditional military clash, reasoning that all regional countries possess modern weapons and none wants to become involved in a confrontation without a high possibility of success. They said the bottom line is finding a common voice amongst all parties concerned.
> 
> Lechervy spoke of the East Sea disputes amongst several regional countries that have been ongoing since 2008 and downplayed worries about a diplomatic impasse. He said multilateral forums will help solve the disputes peacefully.
> 
> Experts stressed that the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) must be observed to define marine boundaries and common fishing grounds, and to conduct joint patrols at sea.
> 
> They called on parties concerned not to build more military bases on disputed islands, and deploy civil and police forces to maintain security instead.
> 
> They held that all parties concerned and other countries like the US and France need to take a constructive attitude and make positive contributions to negotiations in order to ease the situation in the East Sea, which is a common international issue.
> 
> Professor Gendreau even recommended turning the East Sea into an international sea area subject to international law which could benefit all countries concerned and ensure peace throughout the entire region.
> 
> VietNamNet/VOV



Nansha Qundao, Nansha Islands, Spratly Islands (&#20013;&#22269;&#21335;&#27801;&#32676;&#23707
Xi Jiao, West Reef or West London Reef &#65288;&#35199;&#30977;&#65289;

2120X1670


----------



## Martian2

*Chinese 1948 South China Sea map predates 1959 U.S. annexation of Hawaii*

Can you sue the United States in any U.N. court to challenge the American annexation of Hawaii in 1959? Obviously, no.

Therefore, can you sue China in any U.N. court to challenge the 1948 Chinese territorial map (which reflects 2,000 years of sovereignty over the South China Sea since its discovery by the Han Dynasty)?

The answer is also clearly "no." The United States will tell you to go frack off if you try to question U.S. sovereignty over Hawaii. Similarly, China is telling the Philippines (and UNCLOS if necessary) to frack off over 2,000-year-old Chinese islands in the South China Sea as reflected in the 1948 nine-dash-line map.






Reference for 1959 U.S. annexation of Hawaii: Hawaii - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## jhungary

Martian2 said:


> *Chinese 1948 South China Sea map predates 1959 U.S. annexation of Hawaii*
> 
> Can you sue the United States in any U.N. court to challenge the American annexation of Hawaii in 1959? Obviously, no.
> 
> Therefore, can you sue China in any U.N. court to challenge the 1948 Chinese territorial map (which reflects 2,000 years of sovereignty over the South China Sea since its discovery by the Han Dynasty)?
> 
> The answer is also clearly "no." The United States will tell you to go frack off if you try to question U.S. sovereignty over Hawaii. Similarly, China is telling the Philippines (and UNCLOS if necessary) to frack off over 2,000-year-old Chinese islands in the South China Sea as reflected in the 1948 nine-dash-line map.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reference for 1959 U.S. annexation of Hawaii: Hawaii - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



umm......Hawai'i (By the way, no places were *EVER* called Hawaii) is not annexed in 1959, US annexed Hawai'i in 1898. Strongly recommend that you get your fact right first.

Hawai'i joined the Federation in 1959, by no mean they were just annexed in 1959.....

Hawaii - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



> He met with three annexationists from Hawaii: Lorrin Thurston, Francis March Hatch and William Ansel Kinney. *After negotiations, in June 1897, Secretary of State John Sherman agreed to a treaty of annexation with these representatives of the Republic of Hawaii*



LMFAO


----------



## Martian2

jhungary said:


> umm......Hawai'i (By the way, no places were *EVER* called Hawaii) is not annexed in 1959, US annexed Hawai'i in 1898. Strongly recommend that you get your fact right first.
> 
> Hawai'i joined the Federation in 1959, by no mean they were just annexed in 1959.....
> 
> Hawaii - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> LMFAO



Try reading English:

"*In 1900, Hawaii was granted self-governance* and retained &#699;Iolani Palace as the territorial capitol building. Despite several attempts to become a state, Hawaii remained a territory for sixty years."


----------



## jhungary

Martian2 said:


> Try reading English:
> 
> "*In 1900, Hawaii was granted self-governance* and retained &#699;Iolani Palace as the territorial capitol building. Despite several attempts to become a state, Hawaii remained a territory for sixty years."





> He met with three annexationists from Hawaii: Lorrin Thurston, Francis March Hatch and William Ansel Kinney. *After negotiations, in June 1897, Secretary of State John Sherman agreed to a treaty of annexation with these representatives of the Republic of Hawaii *
> 
> Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...a-sea-news-discussions-159.html#ixzz2UN6IvjAP



Read the above post, THANK YOU

*AGAIN, ANNEXATION AND FEDERATION ARE 2 DIFFERENT THINGS*.........

many US territories were Annexed* BUT NEVER *federated into US States. I say again, US Annexed Hawai'i in 1897/1898. Hawai'i become the 50th States in 1959, that does not mean US start owning Hawai'i in 1959. If English for you is a problem, I strongly recommend that you pop down to your nearest co-op store and get a book called "*DICTIONARY*"


----------



## Martian2

jhungary said:


> Read the above post, THANK YOU



*Events that come later negate earlier events. Duh!*

You're annoying. Does 1900 come after 1897?

1897 - some treaty or other

1900 - self-governance <== This is controlling, because it comes later in chronological time. Idiot.

----------

*Use your brain*

Think about it. If Hawaii had already been annexed in 1897, why did the United States have to annex Hawaii in 1959?

The obvious answer is that Hawaii was a self-governing territory and Hawaiians had to vote/accept in becoming an U.S. state.

Hawaii

"*In March 1959, Congress passed the Hawaii Admission Act and U.S. President Dwight D. Eisenhower signed it into law.[58]* (The act excluded Palmyra Atoll, part of the Kingdom and Territory of Hawaii, from the new state.) *On June 27 of that year, a referendum asked residents of Hawaii to vote on the statehood bill. Hawaii voted 17 to 1 to accept. The choices were to accept the Act or to remain a territory*, without the option of independence.[59][60] *The United Nations Special Committee on Decolonization later removed Hawaii from the United Nations list of Non-Self-Governing Territories.*"


----------



## jhungary

Martian2 said:


> *Events that come later negate earlier events. Duh!*
> 
> You're annoying. Does 1900 come after 1897?
> 
> 1897 - some treaty or other
> 
> 1900 - self-governance <== This is controlling, because it comes later in chronological time. Idiot.
> 
> ----------
> 
> *Use your brain*
> 
> Think about it. If Hawaii had already been annexed in 1897, why did the United States have to annex Hawaii in 1959?



lol, you want to say US start controlling Hawai'i in 1900 or in 1959? Please make up your mind first, moron


----------



## Martian2

jhungary said:


> lol, you want to say US start controlling Hawai'i in 1900 or in 1959? Please make up your mind first, moron



How many times do I have to say this?

The United States annexed Hawaii in 1959.


----------



## jhungary

Martian2 said:


> How many times do I have to say this?
> 
> The United States annexed Hawaii in 1959.



How many time do I have to say this, the TREATY of ANNEXATION was signed in 1897. 

Granted Self Governance is the act of Unincorporated territories of the United States. Does that mean US do not control such territories? *NO*

In act, many US territories are *GRANTED SELF-GOVERNANCE *by the US federal government.

Guam, US Virgin Island and American Samoa for an example

So, do US need to Annex them again to claim ownership AGAIN??

OMG, you are beyond help....You need High School level US history, Stats


----------



## Martian2

jhungary said:


> How many time do I have to say this, the TREATY of ANNEXATION was signed in 1897.
> 
> Granted Self Governance is the act of Unincorporated territories of the United States. Does that mean US do not control such territories? *NO*
> 
> In act, many US territories are *GRANTED SELF-GOVERNANCE *by the US federal government.
> 
> Guam, US Virgin Island and American Samoa for an example
> 
> So, do US need to Annex them again to claim ownership AGAIN??
> 
> OMG, you are beyond help....You need High School level US history, Stats



*Lesson in simple English for the illiterate*

How can the U.S. be in control when Hawaii was granted self-governance in 1900?

Do you know what self-governance means? It's plain English, but you don't seem to comprehend.

Let me break it down for you.

SELF: Hawaiians
Governing: ruling yourself

SELF-GOVERNING: Hawaiians ruling Hawaiians

Do you understand now?

----------

The rest of you should ignore the crazy person and just read my original post (see below).

*Chinese 1948 South China Sea map predates 1959 U.S. annexation of Hawaii*

Can you sue the United States in any U.N. court to challenge the American annexation of Hawaii in 1959? Obviously, no.

Therefore, can you sue China in any U.N. court to challenge the 1948 Chinese territorial map (which reflects 2,000 years of sovereignty over the South China Sea since its discovery by the Han Dynasty)?

The answer is also clearly "no." The United States will tell you to go frack off if you try to question U.S. sovereignty over Hawaii. Similarly, China is telling the Philippines (and UNCLOS if necessary) to frack off over 2,000-year-old Chinese islands in the South China Sea as reflected in the 1948 nine-dash-line map.






Reference for 1959 U.S. annexation of Hawaii: Hawaii - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## jhungary

Martian2 said:


> *Lesson in simple English for the illiterate*
> 
> How can the U.S. be in control when Hawaii was granted self-governance in 1900?
> 
> Do you know what self-governance means? It's plain English, but you don't seem to comprehend.
> 
> Let me break it down for you.
> 
> SELF: Hawaiians
> Governing: ruling yourself
> 
> SELF-GOVERNING: Hawaiians ruling Hawaiians
> 
> Do you understand now?
> 
> ----------
> 
> The rest of you should ignore the crazy person and just read my original post (see below).
> 
> *Chinese 1948 South China Sea map predates 1959 U.S. annexation of Hawaii*
> 
> Can you sue the United States in any U.N. court to challenge the American annexation of Hawaii in 1959? Obviously, no.
> 
> Therefore, can you sue China in any U.N. court to challenge the 1948 Chinese territorial map (which reflects 2,000 years of sovereignty over the South China Sea since its discovery by the Han Dynasty)?
> 
> The answer is also clearly "no." The United States will tell you to go frack off if you try to question U.S. sovereignty over Hawaii. Similarly, China is telling the Philippines (and UNCLOS if necessary) to frack off over 2,000-year-old Chinese islands in the South China Sea as reflected in the 1948 nine-dash-line map.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reference for 1959 U.S. annexation of Hawaii: Hawaii - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



That's why I said you are a moron



> *In the 1950s the power of the plantation owners was finally broken by descendants of immigrant laborers. Because they were born in a U.S. territory, they were legal U.S. citizens*. The Hawaii Republican Party, strongly supported by plantation owners, was voted out of office. The Democratic Party of Hawaii dominated politics for 40 years. Expecting to gain full voting rights, Hawaii's residents actively campaigned for statehood.



This parts mean the resident Born in Hawai'i *BEFORE *US Become 50th US States ARE US Citizens. How does Hawai'ian gain US Citizenship if they are not already annexed into US territories then is beyond me.



> In March 1959, Congress passed the Hawaii Admission Act and U.S. President Dwight D. Eisenhower signed it into law.[58] (The act excluded Palmyra Atoll, part of the Kingdom and Territory of Hawaii, from the new state.) On June 27 of that year, a referendum asked residents of Hawaii to vote on the statehood bill. Hawaii voted 17 to 1 to accept. The choices were to accept the Act or to remain a territory, without the option of independence.[59][60] *The United Nations Special Committee on Decolonization later removed Hawaii from the United Nations list of Non-Self-Governing Territories*.



this paragraph states that UN recognise Hawai'i as a *NON-SELF-GOVERNING Territories*. Do you even know what this mean??

Hawai'i were self governing during 1897 (or 1900 as you said) to 1959, that does not mean it DOES NOT BELONG TO THE US.

Sir, these 2 paragraph proved you wrong.

Plus you obiviously do not know what is Self Governing.

Hong Kong was self Govern from the UK before 1997 turn over, does that mean HK is NOT an UK Colony before 1997?? Many US territories are self govern. That does not mean they do not belong to the US. This is very simple English, I don't really know why you do not understand

Self - Hawai'ian but they are also American and Legal US citizens
SELF-GOVERNING: Hawaiians ruling Hawaiians both US citizens So........what's your point??

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Martian2

jhungary said:


> That's why I said you are a moron
> 
> This parts mean the resident Born in Hawai'i *BEFORE *US Become 50th US States ARE US Citizens. How does Hawai'ian gain US Citizenship if they are not already annexed into US territories then is beyond me.
> 
> this paragraph states that UN recognise Hawai'i as a *NON-SELF-GOVERNING Territories*. Do you even know what this mean??
> 
> Hawai'i were self governing during 1897 (or 1900 as you said) to 1959, that does not mean it DOES NOT BELONG TO THE US.
> 
> Sir, these 2 paragraph proved you wrong.



*Is self-governing Puerto Rico part of the United States? Yes or No?*

Let me ask you a simple question.

Is Puerto Rico part of the United States? Yes or No?

Now, go look at a map of the United States. Do you see Puerto Rico included as part of the United States?

Puerto Rico is a self-governing commonwealth. Since Puerto Rico is not part of the United States, how could self-governing Hawaii (from 1900-1959) possibly be part of the United States? Do you see your problem now?


----------



## jhungary

Martian2 said:


> *Is self-governing Puerto Rico part of the United States? Yes or No?*
> 
> Let me ask you a simple question.
> 
> Is Puerto Rico part of the United States? Yes or No?
> 
> Now, go look at a map of the United States. Do you see Puerto Rico included as part of the United States?
> 
> Moving along, Puerto Rico is a self-governing commonwealth. Since Puerto Rico is not part of the United States, how could self-governing Hawaii (from 1900-1959) possibly be part of the United States? Do you see your problem now?



I can't resist but to do a Chandler Bing OH.MY.GOD

Look at the maps of United States, did you see anything but the 50 US States?

Does that mean EVERY Part of US overseas territories does NOT BELONG to the United States? And hence oversea US territories is NOT PART of UNITED STATES? Thus, they are not really part of USA??

Annexation - the action of annexing something, especially territory: (Oxford dictionary)
Federation - 1a group of states with a central government but independence in internal affairs (oxford dictionary)

So, using the same logic as you

Falklands is not part of the UK
Christmas Island is not Part of the Australia
Diego Garcia is not part of the UK

Get your facts right

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territories_of_the_United_States



Martian2 said:


> *Is self-governing Puerto Rico part of the United States? Yes or No?*
> 
> Let me ask you a simple question.
> 
> Is Puerto Rico part of the United States? Yes or No?
> 
> Now, go look at a map of the United States. Do you see Puerto Rico included as part of the United States?
> 
> Puerto Rico is a self-governing commonwealth. Since Puerto Rico is not part of the United States, how could self-governing Hawaii (from 1900-1959) possibly be part of the United States? Do you see your problem now?



Then let me ask you one question

*DID US ANNEXED PUERTO RICO? YES OR NO??*
*DID US ANNEXED US VIRGIN ISLAND? YES OR NO?
DID US ANNEXED GUAM? YES OR NO?
DID US ANNEXED AMERICAN SAMOA? YES OR NO?*

So you are saying now Puerto Rico is not part of United States LMFAOROLF 
Oh my god, jesus @gambit @Audio @USAHawk785 @Viet @Juice Check this out Chinese Troll at his best.......

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Martian2

*Post a map or you lose*

Since you can't post a map of the United States that includes Puerto Rico as part of its territory, I can only conclude you forfeit.

You lose. This discussion is over. You had your chance to prove your case by posting a map.

At least I posted a map of China, including the nine-dashed-line map in 1948.

In conclusion, the annexation of Hawaii occurred in 1959 after the Hawaiians took a vote.

Obviously, if the Hawaiians had voted down annexation then Hawaii would have remained self-governing and not have been annexed into the United States in 1959.

----------

Hawaii

"*In March 1959, Congress passed the Hawaii Admission Act and U.S. President Dwight D. Eisenhower signed it into law.[58]* (The act excluded Palmyra Atoll, part of the Kingdom and Territory of Hawaii, from the new state.) *On June 27 of that year, a referendum asked residents of Hawaii to vote on the statehood bill. Hawaii voted 17 to 1 to accept. The choices were to accept the Act or to remain a territory*, without the option of independence.[59][60] *The United Nations Special Committee on Decolonization later removed Hawaii from the United Nations list of Non-Self-Governing Territories.*"


----------



## Minjitta

Eliter said:


> Vietnam official map confirms "Spratlys and Paracels belong to China"
> 
> Spratlys and Paracels named By Chinese Name


LOL !! another FAKE China made map that have Vietnamese words printed on it. good job of faking China

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## jhungary

Martian2 said:


> *Post a map or you lose*
> 
> Since you can't post a map of the United States that includes Puerto Rico as part of its territory, I can only conclude you forfeit.
> 
> You lose. This discussion is over. You had your chance to prove your case by posting a map.
> 
> At least I posted a map of China, including the nine-dashed-line map in 1948.
> 
> In conclusion, the annexation of Hawaii occurred in 1959 after the Hawaiians took a vote.



How about from Home : ENERGY STAR (US Government Webpage ".gov")

ENERGY STAR






What do you think what "PR" mean?? Political Ramification, perhaps?? Oh, I don't really know what PR stand for.....Maybe Public Relation??


----------



## Martian2

jhungary said:


> How about from Home : ENERGY STAR (US Government Webpage)
> 
> ENERGY STAR
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What do you think what "PR" mean?? Political Ramification, perhaps??



*A historical fact that China's 1948 map preceded U.S. annexation of Hawaii*

I asked you to post a map. I take it you still can't find a map of the United States with Puerto Rico on it.

Do you want me to post China's 1948 nine-dash-line map again to show sovereignty over the South China Sea?

A map shows the sovereign claim of a nation. China's 1948 nine-dash-line map preceded the U.S. 1959 annexation of Hawaii. It's a simple historical fact.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## jhungary

Martian2 said:


> *Post a map or you lose*
> 
> Since you can't post a map of the United States that includes Puerto Rico as part of its territory, I can only conclude you forfeit.
> 
> You lose. This discussion is over. You had your chance to prove your case by posting a map.
> 
> At least I posted a map of China, including the nine-dashed-line map in 1948.
> 
> In conclusion, the annexation of Hawaii occurred in 1959 after the Hawaiians took a vote.
> 
> Obviously, if the Hawaiians had voted down annexation then Hawaii would have remained self-governing and not have been annexed into the United States in 1959.
> 
> ----------
> 
> Hawaii
> 
> "*In March 1959, Congress passed the Hawaii Admission Act and U.S. President Dwight D. Eisenhower signed it into law.[58]* (The act excluded Palmyra Atoll, part of the Kingdom and Territory of Hawaii, from the new state.) *On June 27 of that year, a referendum asked residents of Hawaii to vote on the statehood bill. Hawaii voted 17 to 1 to accept. The choices were to accept the Act or to remain a territory*, without the option of independence.[59][60] *The United Nations Special Committee on Decolonization later removed Hawaii from the United Nations list of Non-Self-Governing Territories.*"



IN case you do not realise, I won



Martian2 said:


> *A historical fact that China's 1948 map preceded U.S. annexation of Hawaii*
> 
> I asked you to post a map. I take it you still can't find a map of the United States with Puerto Rico on it.
> 
> Do you want me to post China's 1948 nine-dash-line map again to show sovereignty over the South China Sea?
> 
> A map shows the sovereign claim of a nation. China's 1948 nine-dash-line map precedes the U.S. annexation of Hawaii. It's a simple historical fact.



lol... you still don't admit that you lose, even tho I post a map from US GOVERNMENTAL WEBPAGE states that Puerto Rico is part of US territories. 

Seriously, you lose, nothing you say matter

Here I go again


----------



## Minjitta

Martian2 said:


> *Post a map or you lose*
> 
> Since you can't post a map of the United States that includes Puerto Rico as part of its territory, I can only conclude you forfeit.
> 
> You lose. This discussion is over. You had your chance to prove your case by posting a map.
> 
> At least I posted a map of China, including the nine-dashed-line map in 1948.
> 
> In conclusion, the annexation of Hawaii occurred in 1959 after the Hawaiians took a vote.
> 
> Obviously, if the Hawaiians had voted down annexation then Hawaii would have remained self-governing and not have been annexed into the United States in 1959.
> 
> ----------
> 
> Hawaii
> 
> "*In March 1959, Congress passed the Hawaii Admission Act and U.S. President Dwight D. Eisenhower signed it into law.[58]* (The act excluded Palmyra Atoll, part of the Kingdom and Territory of Hawaii, from the new state.) *On June 27 of that year, a referendum asked residents of Hawaii to vote on the statehood bill. Hawaii voted 17 to 1 to accept. The choices were to accept the Act or to remain a territory*, without the option of independence.[59][60] *The United Nations Special Committee on Decolonization later removed Hawaii from the United Nations list of Non-Self-Governing Territories.*"



So china only have 1 map from 1948 what happen before 1948 where was china, and why China not manage those islands since 1948.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Martian2

Minjitta said:


> So china only have 1 map from 1948 what happen before 1948 where was china, and why China not manage those islands since 1948.



*Map is easy to understand*

China has imperial records claiming the South China Sea and its islands for 2,000 years.

I focus on the maps, because it's easier for some simple-minded people to understand.

A map is visual and when I say the South China Sea territory shown on the nine-dash-line map has been part of China since 1948 (or 65 years ago), most people understand it's been Chinese territory for three generations based solely on the unchallenged map.

----------

*Trying to discuss calculus with a monkey*

At JHungary, I never disputed it (e.g. Hawaii or Puerto Rico) was/is a self-governing territory. I just said it wasn't part of the United States. Do you understand the distinction?

A self-governing territory can be associated with a country, but it's not part of your country until Congress passes a law on admission and the self-governing territory decides to accept. Do you understand these legal hurdles and procedures?

I feel like I'm trying to discuss calculus with a monkey. You don't seem to understand the subtle differences.


----------



## jhungary

Martian2 said:


> "*In March 1959, Congress passed the Hawaii Admission Act and U.S. President Dwight D. Eisenhower signed it into law.[58]* (The act excluded Palmyra Atoll, part of the Kingdom and Territory of Hawaii, from the new state.) *On June 27 of that year, a referendum asked residents of Hawaii to vote on the statehood bill. Hawaii voted 17 to 1 to accept. The choices were to accept the Act or to remain a territory*, without the option of independence.[59][60] *The United Nations Special Committee on Decolonization later removed Hawaii from the United Nations list of Non-Self-Governing Territories.*"



From this map 






http://www.energystar.gov/images/new_homes/partners/US.png

maybe Guam and PR both are US States?? I don't know 

 I win, you lose, period


----------



## Minjitta

jhungary said:


> IN case you do not realise, I won
> 
> 
> 
> lol... you still don't admit that you lose, even tho I post a map from US GOVERNMENTAL WEBPAGE states that Puerto Rico is part of US territories.
> 
> Seriously, you lose, nothing you say matter
> 
> Here I go again



Congratulation you got my vote you won, hands down


----------



## jhungary

Minjitta said:


> Congratulation you got my vote you won, hands down



lol, stupid guy think he can troll me 

The moment he extend the challenge stating if I can find a map of US including Puerto Rico, he loses.

Yet, he still wanted to Twist the fact presented on the table, PUBLICLY. 

If Chinese member here get this kind of level of intelligent, I can see how "Legitimate" all their claim will be


----------



## Martian2

jhungary said:


> lol, stupid guy think he can troll me
> 
> The moment he extend the challenge stating if I can find a map of US including Puerto Rico, he loses.
> 
> Yet, he still wanted to Twist the fact presented on the table, PUBLICLY.
> 
> If Chinese member here get this kind of level of intelligent, I can see how "Legitimate" all their claim will be



*No point arguing if you can't understand the distinction*

I give up. The monkey wins, because he can't tell the difference between sovereign U.S soil and a self-governing territory.

The U.N. is at loggerheads with the U.S. over self-governing Puerto Rico. Thus, I'm afraid I have to insist Puerto Rico is not part of the United States. However, I'm not willing to argue the point to death. It should be obvious to anyone with common sense that Puerto Rico is a self-governing territory.

----------

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_Rico#Within_the_United_States

"*In 2006,[107] 2007,[108] 2009,[109] 2010,[110] and 2011[111] the United Nations Special Committee on Decolonization passed resolutions calling on the United States to expedite a process "that would allow Puerto Ricans to fully exercise their inalienable right to self-determination and independence",[112]* and to release all Puerto Rican political prisoners in U.S. prisons, to clean up, decontaminate and return the lands in the islands of Vieques and Culebra to the people of Puerto Rico, to perform a probe into U.S. human rights violations on the island and a probe into the killing by the FBI of pro-independence leader Filiberto Ojeda Rios."


----------



## jhungary

Martian2 said:


> *Post a map or you lose*



Well, more, if you want.

SelectUSA






https://www.bja.gov/annualreport/default.aspx






State Legislature Websites - THOMAS (Library of Congress)






Are you really living in the US??



Martian2 said:


> *No point arguing if you can't understand the distinction*
> 
> I give up. The monkey wins, because he can't tell the difference between sovereign U.S soil and a self-governing territory.



lol. So you are saying US territories is not part of the US, then how come almost all Federal Governmental website says otherwise?? 

If I have to choice between Federal US government information and yours' info, I will choose the US Government anyday.

Admit it, you lose, the moment you say Puerto is not Part of US 

Who say US do not have Sovereign right on US territories even if that mean they are unincorped territories to the US? You obviously do not understand the word "Sovereignty" and the word "Territories"

If you live in any US states (Lower 48 states) go to any federal plaza and ask "If US have Sovereign right to Puerto Rico" to any of your federal official, and see what they tell you? No point arguing with monkey who only insult other when they are losing.

You lose, I win, and it will always be like this


----------



## Martian2

*If you can't vote for an U.S. President, you're not American*

Self-governing territories are not part of the United States until they are annexed by Congress and approved by the self-governing population.

Can Puerto Ricans vote for an American president? No.

Why not? Because Puerto Ricans are not full American citizens.

----------

When does Puerto Rico become part of the United States? When Congress votes to admit Puerto Rico and Puerto Ricans vote to accept. Until that time, Puerto Rico has not been annexed by the United States.

Are we in agreement now?


----------



## Minjitta

Martian2 said:


> *Map is easy to understand*
> 
> China has imperial records claiming the South China Sea and its islands for 2,000 years.
> 
> I focus on the maps, because it's easier for some simple-minded people to understand.
> 
> A map is visual and when I say the South China Sea territory shown on the nine-dash-line map has been part of China since 1948 (or 65 years ago), most people understand it's been Chinese territory for three generations based solely on the unchallenged map.
> 
> ----------
> 
> *Trying to discuss calculus with a monkey*
> 
> At JHungary, I never disputed it (e.g. Hawaii or Puerto Rico) was/is a self-governing territory. I just said it wasn't part of the United States. Do you understand the distinction?
> 
> A self-governing territory can be associated with a country, but it's not part of your country until Congress passes a law on admission and the self-governing territory decides to accept. Do you understand these legal hurdles and procedures?
> 
> I feel like I'm trying to discuss calculus with a monkey. You don't seem to understand the subtle differences.



Can you please show China 2000 years of record that show those islands belong to China, and why China have to claim those islands if China have those 2000 years old records, and why the world doesn't recognize those islands belong to China?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Martian2

Minjitta said:


> Can you please show China 2000 years of record that show those islands belong to China, and why China have to claim those islands if China have those 2000 years old records, and why the world doesn't recognize those islands belong to China?



*Feel free to reprise the 1988 Johnson Reef incident*

This is not a game where other nations get to voice their useless opinions.

The PLA Navy is patrolling the South China Sea and any country that disagrees is free to send their navy. Vietnam learned that the hard way at Johnson Reef in 1988. If you want to try again, be my guest.

----------

Anyway, don't challenge China's 1948 nine-dash-line map and you'll be in good shape.

Citation:

*Chinese 1948 South China Sea map predates 1959 U.S. annexation of Hawaii*

Can you sue the United States in any U.N. court to challenge the American annexation of Hawaii in 1959? Obviously, no.

Therefore, can you sue China in any U.N. court to challenge the 1948 Chinese territorial map (which reflects 2,000 years of sovereignty over the South China Sea since its discovery by the Han Dynasty)?

The answer is also clearly "no." The United States will tell you to go frack off if you try to question U.S. sovereignty over Hawaii. Similarly, China is telling the Philippines (and UNCLOS if necessary) to frack off over 2,000-year-old Chinese islands in the South China Sea as reflected in the 1948 nine-dash-line map.







Reference for 1959 U.S. annexation of Hawaii: Hawaii - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## jhungary

Martian2 said:


> *If you can't vote for an U.S. President, you're not American*
> 
> Self-governing territories are not part of the United States until they are annexed by Congress and approved by the self-governing population.
> 
> Can Puerto Ricans vote for an American president? No.
> 
> *Why not? Because Puerto Ricans are not full American citizens*.



Actually, they can, if Puerto Rican live IN one of the 50th US STATES.



> To say that the Constitution does not require extension of federal voting rights to U.S. territories residents does not, however, exclude the possibility that the Constitution may permit their enfranchisement under another source of law.



Voting rights in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



> *Puerto Rico is a territory under the sovereignty of the federal government*, *but is not part of any state*. It has been organized (given a measure of self-rule by the Congress) subject to the Congress&#8217; plenary powers under the territorial clause of Article IV, sec. 3, of the U.S. Constitution.[1] In the U.S. House of Representatives, Puerto Rico is entitled to a Resident Commissioner, a delegate who is not allowed to vote on the floor of the House, but can vote on procedural matters and in House committees. In most other U.S. overseas (and historically pre-state) territories, a similar representative position is styled Delegate.



Federal voting rights in Puerto Rico - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This explain the voting things is not "Targeted" by Citizens. But rather the location. US Citizens of the 50 States cannot vote in the Presidential Primary if they too live in US overseas territories. As with Convicted Felon. Does that mean those people is not American??

The territories is excluded on the account of they are NOT part of the "United States" (The states) non-state hooded territories. Hence There are no representation to those people. Not because they are not part of the US (the sovereign country)

So, well, again, you are wrong

And well, I got to go, have dinner plan, not that I don't want to mate you in three for another hour, but I got a life to go to. If you want more, come back tomorrow.


----------



## Minjitta

Martian2 said:


> *Feel free to reprise the 1988 Johnson Reef incident*
> 
> This is not a game where other nations get to voice their useless opinions.
> 
> The PLA Navy is patrolling the South China Sea and any country that disagrees is free to send their navy. Vietnam learned that the hard way at Johnson Reef in 1988. If you want to try again, be my guest.
> 
> ----------
> 
> Anyway, don't challenge China's 1948 nine-dash-line map and you'll be in good shape.
> 
> Citation:
> 
> *Chinese 1948 South China Sea map predates 1959 U.S. annexation of Hawaii*
> 
> Can you sue the United States in any U.N. court to challenge the American annexation of Hawaii in 1959? Obviously, no.
> 
> Therefore, can you sue China in any U.N. court to challenge the 1948 Chinese territorial map (which reflects 2,000 years of sovereignty over the South China Sea since its discovery by the Han Dynasty)?
> 
> The answer is also clearly "no." The United States will tell you to go frack off if you try to question U.S. sovereignty over Hawaii. Similarly, China is telling the Philippines (and UNCLOS if necessary) to frack off over 2,000-year-old Chinese islands in the South China Sea as reflected in the 1948 nine-dash-line map.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reference for 1959 U.S. annexation of Hawaii: Hawaii - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



NO BODY BACK DOWN TO CHINA
1988 incident was cowerly act by PLA, killing unarmed men, and you got hype over that. it's just show your Chinese characters.
Btw why are you hidden behind your true coler (2USA Flags )

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zero_wing

Pointless arguments by pointless people the Chinese love to fight everyone for the sake of feeling superior to others why can't they just leave people alone and allow everyone to live in peace.


----------



## Minjitta

jhungary said:


> lol, stupid guy think he can troll me
> 
> The moment he extend the challenge stating if I can find a map of US including Puerto Rico, he loses.
> 
> Yet, he still wanted to Twist the fact presented on the table, PUBLICLY.
> 
> If Chinese member here get this kind of level of intelligent, I can see how "Legitimate" all their claim will be



I guess you haven't been to forums with Chinese discus there thought on islands they claims.


----------



## Martian2

I've changed the title to remove any ambiguity.

----------

*Chinese 1948 South China Sea map predates 1959 U.S. annexation of Hawaii as a state*

Can you sue the United States in any U.N. court to challenge the American annexation of Hawaii in 1959 as a state? Obviously, no.

Therefore, can you sue China in any U.N. court to challenge the 1948 Chinese territorial map (which reflects 2,000 years of sovereignty over the South China Sea since its discovery by the Han Dynasty)?

The answer is also clearly "no." The United States will tell you to go frack off if you try to question U.S. sovereignty over Hawaii. Similarly, China is telling the Philippines (and UNCLOS if necessary) to frack off over 2,000-year-old Chinese islands in the South China Sea as reflected in the 1948 nine-dash-line map.






Reference for 1959 U.S. annexation of Hawaii as a state: Hawaii - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

----------



Minjitta said:


> NO BODY BACK DOWN TO CHINA
> 1988 incident was cowerly act by PLA, killing unarmed men, and you got hype over that. it's just show your Chinese characters.
> Btw why are you hidden behind your true coler (2USA Flags )



They were all armed. Go look at the YouTube video. Every Vietnamese marine had a machine gun in his hands as he marched FORWARD and shot to threaten the Chinese motor boat and frigate.

I live in Boston and I've been an American citizen for decades. However, I've always disclosed that I'm a Chinese-American of Taiwanese origin if anyone asked.


----------



## USAHawk785

jhungary said:


> I can't resist but to do a Chandler Bing OH.MY.GOD
> 
> Look at the maps of United States, did you see anything but the 50 US States?
> 
> Does that mean EVERY Part of US overseas territories does NOT BELONG to the United States? And hence oversea US territories is NOT PART of UNITED STATES? Thus, they are not really part of USA??
> 
> Annexation - the action of annexing something, especially territory: (Oxford dictionary)
> Federation - 1a group of states with a central government but independence in internal affairs (oxford dictionary)
> 
> So, using the same logic as you
> 
> Falklands is not part of the UK
> Christmas Island is not Part of the Australia
> Diego Garcia is not part of the UK
> 
> Get your facts right
> 
> Territories of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> Then let me ask you one question
> 
> *DID US ANNEXED PUERTO RICO? YES OR NO??*
> *DID US ANNEXED US VIRGIN ISLAND? YES OR NO?
> DID US ANNEXED GUAM? YES OR NO?
> DID US ANNEXED AMERICAN SAMOA? YES OR NO?*
> 
> So you are saying now Puerto Rico is not part of United States LMFAOROLF
> Oh my god, jesus @gambit @Audio @USAHawk785 @Viet @Juice Check this out Chinese Troll at his best.......




Don't waste your time on that double-dealing nincompoop.


----------



## Eliter

Mar/6/2013 
Nansha Qundao, Nansha Islands, Spratly Islands &#21335;&#27801;&#32676;&#23707;
Ren'ai Jiao, Second Thomas Reef &#20161;&#29233;&#30977;

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

Eliter said:


> Vietnam official map confirms "Spratlys and Paracels belong to China"
> 
> Spratlys and Paracels named By Chinese Name




Haha, it's the evident for that chinese are traitors, *this map made in China*. *In the time of "communist brothers" but chinese communists has been cheated Vietnamese communists. Chinese did their job*. 

Bonus for you again Chinese map here.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Eliter

EastSea said:


> Haha, it's the evident for that chinese are traitors, *this map made in China*. In the time of "communist brothers" but chinese communists has been cheated Vietnamese communists. Chinese did their job.
> 
> Bonus for you again Chinese map here.



Plese,offer testimony.

September.4.1958,China government was declared Chinese territorial waters included Xi sha Islands(Paracel Islands ) and Nan sha Islands(Spratly Islands ).

September.14.1958,Vietnam government was present a note to China government. declared"agree and support".

this note made in China too?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## EastSea

Eliter said:


> Plese,offer testimony.



It's reported that in the time of "friendship" Vietnam-China, chinese promised they "help" Vietnam to print the map, even for VNA, but chinese have been wrongly changed the names of our Islands.

Don't you feel any as shamefully for China.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

Eliter said:


> Plese,offer testimony.
> 
> September.4.1958,China government was declared Chinese territorial waters included Xi sha Islands(Paracel Islands ) and Nan sha Islands(Spratly Islands ).
> 
> September.14.1958,Vietnam government was present a note to China government. declared"agree and support".
> 
> this note made in China too?



You are idiot.

After 1954, by *Geneve aggreement signed by China and North Vietnam, * Vietnam was divided in two States. Islands are located below 17 pararell so Islands belong to us South Vietnamese people.
1/ North Vietnam don't have right over Islands of South Vietnam.
2/ The letter (by personnally) stated only North Vietnam will be respected 12 coustline of maind land China only and didn't mentioned about the Islands.
1/ Any case this is useless paper for China.

Do you understand, idiot chinese boy ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

Martian2 said:


> *A historical fact that China's 1948 map preceded U.S. annexation of Hawaii*
> I asked you to post a map. I take it you still can't find a map of the United States with Puerto Rico on it.
> 
> Do you want me to post *China's 1948 nine-dash-line map* again to show sovereignty over the South China Sea?
> 
> A map shows the sovereign claim of a nation. China's 1948 nine-dash-line map preceded the U.S. 1959 annexation of Hawaii. It's a simple historical fact.


Nobody in the world outside China believes in your self-fake map. Show me *evidence *that China held sovereign over the South Sea before you took parts from it from Vietnam. Don´t tell me that you will send the Navy if I don´t believe it.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

jhungary said:


> I can't resist but to do a Chandler Bing OH.MY.GOD
> 
> So you are saying now Puerto Rico is not part of United States LMFAOROLF
> Oh my god, jesus @gambit @Audio @USAHawk785 @Viet @Juice Check this out Chinese Troll at his best.......


Why not copy "Chinese" style? I can invent something like such thing: Japan discovered China in ancient times, so China belongs to Japan.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Eliter

EastSea said:


> You are idiot.
> 
> After 1954, by *Geneve aggreement signed by China and North Vietnam, *Islands are located below 17 pararell so Islands belong to us South Vietnamese people.
> 1/ North Vietnam don't have right over Islands of South Vietnam.
> 2/ The letter (by personnally) stated only North Vietnam will be respected 12 coustline of maind land China only and didn't mentioned about the Islands.
> 1/ Any case this is useless paper for China.
> 
> Do you understand, idiot chinese boy ?



idiot reply.history of knowledge as poor.
You said 50% Vietnamese(North Vietnam) was agreed Xi sha Islands(Paracel Islands ) and Nan sha Islands(Spratly Islands ) belong to China.
================



Nansha Qundao, Nansha Islands, Spratly Islands(&#21335;&#27801;&#32676;&#23707
Jiuzhang Qundjiao, Union Banks and Reef, Union Tablemount &#20061;&#31456;&#32676;&#30977;

3600X2930

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## romia

Bullshit!
Japanese dog found China in ancient times?when and where?DASHABI

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

Eliter said:


> idiot reply.history of knowledge as poor.
> You said 50% Vietnamese(North Vietnam) was agreed Xi sha Islands(Paracel Islands ) and Nan sha Islands(Spratly Islands ) belong to China.
> ================
> 
> 
> 
> Nansha Qundao, Nansha Islands, Spratly Islands(&#21335;&#27801;&#32676;&#23707
> Jiuzhang Qundjiao, Union Banks and Reef, Union Tablemount &#20061;&#31456;&#32676;&#30977;
> 
> 3600X2930




You are liar.
Your troll admitted that your English is very poor, idiot boy. You do not understand Geneve Aggreement 1954, or in other words The Geneva Conference (April 26 &#8211; July 20, 1954[1]) was a conference which took place in Geneva, Switzerland, signed by North Vietnam and China PRC with France 1954.
North Vietnamese do not have right over Islands of South Vietnam to "agree" as you lie. The letter of PM PVD didn't do that. North Corea can't say any words about sovereignty of South Korea over Dokdo. Lying is chinese job.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Soryu

Eliter said:


> Plese,offer testimony.
> 
> September.4.1958,China government was declared Chinese territorial waters included Xi sha Islands(Paracel Islands ) and Nan sha Islands(Spratly Islands ).
> 
> September.14.1958,Vietnam government was present a note to China government. declared"agree and support".
> 
> this note made in China too?


China: we have proof about our sovereignty over Island.

Vietnam: where's it?

China: ........... bla bla bla ... ....

Vietnam: where is it? Here is your map and our map, Nothing show it belong to china, but show it belong to VietNam.

China: .... We have th letter your Prime Misnister sign and agree with our claim!

Vietnam: That letter was said to agree with your 12nm territorial waters!

China: ... idiot, bla bla bla,.... bullshjt, bla bla bla,... ungraceful, bla bla bla ... we will destroy Vietnam, bla bla bla... we will teach you another lesson ... bla bla bla...

Vietnam: Where's your proof about your claim over two Islands !?

China: ................................ bla bla bla ..............

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zero_wing

EastSea said:


> You are liar.
> Your troll admitted that your English is very poor, idiot boy. You do not understand Geneve Aggreement 1954, or in other words The Geneva Conference (April 26 &#8211; July 20, 1954[1]) was a conference which took place in Geneva, Switzerland, signed by North Vietnam and China PRC with France 1954.
> North Vietnamese do not have right over Islands of South Vietnam to "agree" as you lie. The letter of PM PVD didn't do that. North Corea can't say any words about sovereignty of South Korea over Dokdo. Lying is chinese job.



They are trolls idiot who love to pick fight with no logic what so ever

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## hoangsa

China is using jungle law and muscle law. Discussion here is just for fun. They are no way to understand the international law of modern law. They are thinking they are in chaos time of three kingdoms .

Unlucky China' neighbors like Vietnam or Philippine are weaker but will stand still bravely and strongly in front of a perverse China. South East Asian Sea will become sea of fire to burn all of supplier Chinese ships, while US and Japan are ready to use muscle to teach China which age they are living.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cirr

The PLA Army &#65288;note&#65306;not PLAN&#65289; has an existing force of 181 such ships for the baboons and monkeys in the SCS&#65292;and can easily convert hundreds&#65292;if not thousands more&#65292; of similar or bigger vessels for the same use&#65306;






 Pic taken of a recent exercise in the SCS&#12290;

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

DDG 153 seen docked at a naval port during her recent sea trial&#65306;






FFG 597 &#8220;Qinzhou&#8221; nearly ready for the Hong Kong PLAN Garrison&#65306;

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Eliter

Soryu said:


> China: we have proof about our sovereignty over Island.
> 
> Vietnam: where's it?
> 
> China: ........... bla bla bla ... ....
> 
> Vietnam: where is it? Here is your map and our map, Nothing show it belong to china, but show it belong to VietNam.
> 
> China: .... We have th letter your Prime Misnister sign and agree with our claim!
> 
> Vietnam: That letter was said to agree with your 12nm territorial waters!
> 
> China: ... idiot, bla bla bla,.... bullshjt, bla bla bla,... ungraceful, bla bla bla ... we will destroy Vietnam, bla bla bla... we will teach you another lesson ... bla bla bla...
> 
> Vietnam: Where's your proof about your claim over two Islands !?
> 
> China: ................................ bla bla bla ..............



You are liar.Look here!


----------



## Soryu

*China's sovereignty story*:

We were claim this Islands > It's useless and not reliable > we have proof about > It's fake and not reliable > we have your words accept our claim > It's your failure proof and useless > we have our PLA for rob anything that we want > It's useless, fail and not reliable, thief ....

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

Eliter said:


> You are liar.Look here!



You were lied by your Government and some greedy man:

No matter your "included", our PM Pham Van Dong just agreed with PRC's 12 nm territorial waters, nothing more.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Eliter

Soryu said:


> You were lied by your Government and some greedy man:
> 
> No matter your "included", our PM Pham Van Dong just agreed with PRC's 12 nm territorial waters, nothing more.



Then,Pham Van Dong Government's map


----------



## Soryu

Eliter said:


> Then,Pham Van Dong Government's map


What's proven that image is PVD government map, but was not propaganda image from PRC ?

Why did Chinese scholars not show that map in any international & regional conference about SCS ?

...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## VietHome

Qing Dynasty Map in 1904 printed by Shanghai Publishing House showed that Chinese territory stops at Hainan Islands. End of story






Truong Sa, Hoang Sa not belong to China: 1904 Chinese map - News VietNamNet

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## VietHome

Further questions on Pham Van Dong's letter, read my post here. 

http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...shi-channel-between-taiwan-philippines-8.html

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

Eliter said:


> Then,Pham Van Dong Government's map



This map printed in China and chinese illegally changed names of our Islands. Idiot chinese, you are thief. Don't open big mouth to lie.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## gambit

> Martian2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> *If you can't vote for an U.S. President, you're not American*
> 
> Self-governing territories are not part of the United States until they are annexed by Congress and approved by the self-governing population.
> 
> Can Puerto Ricans vote for an American president? No.
> 
> Why not? Because Puerto Ricans are not full American citizens.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jhungary said:
> 
> 
> 
> As with Convicted Felon. Does that mean those people is not American??
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

*Marty*,

You are confused between the theoretical concept of 'sovereignty' versus the practical day to day issues of 'governance'. The example of convicted felons hits your argument right between the eyes.

Governance and governments are about establishing rules and regulations applicable inside political associations and boundaries. Sovereignty is the greater theory that oversees and enables governance and governments. The US is not confined to the geographically contiguous 48 states but include any territories upon which US laws rules supreme.

Do you have any university level Political Science educkashun at all?

Self governance does not equal to sovereignty.

Self governance is the *FREEDOM GRANTED BY A GREATER SOVEREIGN POWER* to create unique rules and regulations believed to be necessary within a territory. If we go by your flawed argument, any degrees of governing autonomy automatically completely negate sovereignty and that mean China should give up Taiwan and Tibet, no?

With the convicted felon analogy, voting rights falls under governance and this specific right is negated by certain conditions, in this case it is a high crime, but the person who is denied this privilege is still under the sovereign power of the US government.

Again, Marty: Do you have any university level Political Science educkashun at all? Do you even read any political science books, not Internet blogs, written by political philosophers or even political operatives of any level whose contents are formulated for public consumption, and that whose contents *ARE NOT* approved by the Chinese government?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

EastSea said:


> This map printed in China and chinese illegally changed names of our Islands. Idiot chinese, you are thief. Don't open big mouth to lie.



Can you tell me the story about that fake map? I didn't know about that bullshjt map ...


----------



## Martian2

*Getting ready for prime time in mainstream media*

Dear Gambit, I do not "have any university level Political Science educkashun (sic) at all?" (your words in quotes)

I'm simply floating the idea that China's 1948 nine-dash-line map is much older than the U.S. annexation of Hawaii as a state. I have already changed the title of my post to avert any confusion between annexing Hawaii as a state and annexing Hawaii as a territory.

As a practical matter, I posted my idea in preparation to counter any unfavorable UNCLOS decision. While China has the legal power as an UNSC Permanent Five to veto any UNCLOS decision, I'm reaching for a deeper level of victory.

I want everyone to know that suing China over its 1948 nine-dash-line map is just as ridiculous as suing the United States over its 1959 annexation of Hawaii as a state.

In conclusion, I don't really care if any of you anti-Chinese forum members are not willing to listen to my ideas. The important thing is that you can't seem to find any real weakness in my argument and it is ready for prime time. I will roll out my idea in the mainstream media around June or July this year (after the UNCLOS decision to hear the case) if necessary.

----------

Related post:

*Chinese 1948 South China Sea map predates 1959 U.S. annexation of Hawaii as a state*

Can you sue the United States in any U.N. court to challenge the American annexation of Hawaii in 1959 as a state? Obviously, no.

Therefore, can you sue China in any U.N. court to challenge the 1948 Chinese territorial map (which reflects 2,000 years of sovereignty over the South China Sea since its discovery by the Han Dynasty)?

The answer is also clearly "no." The United States will tell you to go frack off if you try to question U.S. sovereignty over Hawaii. Similarly, China is telling the Philippines (and UNCLOS if necessary) to frack off over 2,000-year-old Chinese islands in the South China Sea as reflected in the 1948 nine-dash-line map.






Reference for 1959 U.S. annexation of Hawaii as a state: Hawaii - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## gambit

Martian2 said:


> *Getting ready for prime time in mainstream media*
> 
> Dear Gambit, *I do not "have any university level Political Science educkashun at all?"* (your words in quote)
> 
> I'm simply floating the idea that China's 1948 nine-dash-line map is much older than the U.S. annexation of Hawaii as a state. I have already changed the title of my post to avert any confusion between annexing Hawaii as a state and annexing Hawaii as a territory.
> 
> As a practical matter, I posted my idea in preparation to counter any unfavorable UNCLOS decision. While China has the legal power as an UNSC Permanent Five to veto any UNCLOS decision, I'm reaching for a deeper level of victory.
> 
> I want everyone to know that suing China over its 1948 nine-dash-line map is just as ridiculous as suing the United States over its 1959 annexation of Hawaii as a state.
> 
> In conclusion, I don't really care if any of you anti-Chinese forum members are not willing to listen to my ideas. The important thing is that you can't seem to find any real weakness in my argument and it is ready for prime time. I will roll out my idea in the mainstream media around June or July this year (after the UNCLOS decision to hear the case) if necessary.


Then what make you think whatever arguments you presented will have any philosophical impact? More likely you are doing this just so you can claim you did it out for your own ego?

You confused sovereignty and governance and you think your drivel about what China claimed but cannot prove will make a difference?


----------



## jhungary

Martian2 said:


> *Getting ready for prime time in mainstream media*



This will be the last post regarding this issue.

What you claim is, Hawai'i are self governed and the Puerto Rico does not have voting right hence Hawai'i and Puerto Rico does not consider part of USA?? Hence Hawai'i are "annexed" and become part of the USA when Hawai'i apply to join the Statehood in 1959??

*This is what you claim. Am I correct??*

Let's look at a few places from around the world

*Hong Kong* - Hong Kong is currently a self governed autonomic territories of China. Hong Kong is ruled by Hong Kong Resident and under a One country two system from China (&#28207;&#20154;&#27835;&#28207;,&#19968;&#22283;&#20841;&#21046 Hong Kong Resident in HK cannot be stand for voting nor does have any voting privilege on any Chinese Provincial or Local Election. Nor can anyone from HK vote for People Congress. Hong Kong have a land border with China, uses different travel document than Mainland Chinese. Chinese born in Hong Kong Does not automatically granted HK residence.

So, given what you are saying is true, that a self-governed territories does not have voting privilege does not consider a part of their mother country, then Hong Kong should also not consider part of China.

*Macau *- Macau is also a self governed autonomic territories of China. Macau Government comprise of Macau Resident only and like Hong Kong, Macau is under 1 country 2 system. Macau resident residing in Macau does not have voting right (Either voting or standing) in any local or provincial election. Nor People in Macau have any voting privilege to run for People Congress in China.

So are you also consider Macau not part of China? Because they also self governed and does not have voting right in China??

*Taiwan* - Taiwan is claimed to be a Province of People Republic of China and currently under self governed control. People in Taiwan currently governing the Government of Taiwan and people in Taiwan does not have voting right what so ever on Chinese provincial or local election. Nor do they have power to run for people congress.

So are you saying until the day Taiwan reunited with China then that is the same day China "annexed" Taiwan? That imply Taiwan is independent BEFORE said reunion exist. That contrary to the Chinese political means that Taiwan is part of China even before any reunion exist.

In short. Let's take a step back.

*If you are willing to conceive that Hong Kong currently is not part of China, I am willing to conceive that Puerto Rico is NOT part of USA

If you are willing to conceive that Macau currently is not part of China, I am willing to conceive that Guam is NOT part of USA

If you are willing to conceive that Taiwan is independent territories before Reunion with China, I am willing to conceive that Hawai'i are annexed by the American in 1959*

can you do that??

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Soryu

Your trick is useless and fail.
We see through it, kid. 

Hawaii has it own people, they was accept and joined to Union with USA, so no one protest or challenge it.
But in case of Spartly and Paracel Islands, you were rob them from others, you attacked other and rob it.

Your discovery was useless proof, no map show it belong to you at before 1948 ( legal map must has records of number, name, detail ... about object on it ).
If you saw it, you want it, you claim it, so Should we do it with the moon, huh? You can claim it, because you discoverd it from many thousand years .... 


Martian2 said:


> *Getting ready for prime time in mainstream media*
> 
> bla bla bla ...................................
> ----------
> 
> Related post:
> 
> *Chinese 1948 South China Sea map predates 1959 U.S. annexation of Hawaii as a state*
> 
> Can you sue the United States in any U.N. court to challenge the American annexation of Hawaii in 1959 as a state? Obviously, no.
> 
> Therefore, can you sue China in any U.N. court to challenge the 1948 Chinese territorial map (which reflects 2,000 years of sovereignty over the South China Sea since its discovery by the Han Dynasty)?
> 
> The answer is also clearly "no." The United States will tell you to go frack off if you try to question U.S. sovereignty over Hawaii. Similarly, China is telling the Philippines (and UNCLOS if necessary) to frack off over 2,000-year-old Chinese islands in the South China Sea as reflected in the 1948 nine-dash-line map.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reference for 1959 U.S. annexation of Hawaii as a state: Hawaii - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



First, say about discovery, claim, >>> fail >>> use a letter was written to agree with your 12 nm territorial water as proof about your claim >>> fail >>> then show off USA's case as rules for your claim >>> fail ... 

I guess as usual, last words from chinese is still military power of PLA and robbery.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Martian2

*Ambiguity had been removed*

At JHungary, what is wrong with you?

I already changed the title of my post. There is no ambiguity.

It is now 100% correct, which I intend to post in the mainstream media.

You criticized and I fixed my title. When the appropriate time arrives, my post (with the corrected amended title) will be posted on many major mainstream news organizations.

You have served your function, which is to help me write bullet-proof posts for the mainstream media.


----------



## gambit

Martian2 said:


> *Ambiguity had been removed*
> 
> At JHungary, what is wrong with you?
> 
> I already changed the title of my post. There is no ambiguity.
> 
> It is now 100% correct, which I intend to post in the mainstream media.
> 
> You criticized and I fixed my title. When the appropriate time arrives, my post (with the corrected amended title) will be posted on many major mainstream news organizations.
> 
> You have served your function, which is to help me write bullet-proof posts for the mainstream media.


You have been 'pwned'.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## jhungary

Soryu said:


> Your trick is useless and fail.
> We see through it, kid.
> 
> Hawaii has it own people, they was accept and joined to Union with USA, so no one protest or challenge it.
> But in case of Spartly and Paracel Islands, you were rob them from others, you attacked other and rob it.
> 
> Your discovery was useless proof, no map show it belong to you at before 1948 ( legal map must has records of number, name, detail ... about object on it ).
> If you saw it, you want it, you claim it, so Should we do it with the moon, huh? You can claim it, because you discoverd it from many thousand years ....
> 
> 
> First, say about discovery, claim, >>> fail >>> use a letter was written to agree with your 12 nm territorial water as proof about your claim >>> fail >>> then show off USA's case as rules for your claim >>> fail ...
> 
> I guess as usual, last words from chinese is still military power of PLA and robbery.



lol, it's about time to drink some coffee and relax, let the clown post his "View" on the internet and get laugh at like a clown that he is, nobody is listening to him anyway. Just let him troll. Otherwise he will not get the 50 Cents he so well deserved.

We are just here to post our view, not to make people live a harsh life. Just let him be


----------



## Martian2

*Reality Check*

I put up with you anti-China guys, because you help me think through my positions.

As a reality check, you should acknowledge that I'm the person with a noticeable presence in the mainstream media (such as BusinessWeek, Reuters, Washington Times, and United Press International). I have something to say.

You guys don't even exist.

----------

Citation:

*Thank you to everyone that answered my request for your support*

I want to express my gratitude to all 35 people that supported my post on BusinessWeek against the Philippines. I only know the names of two of you (e.g. Liang and Aurorae).

I am grateful to the 33 anonymous people that voted for my comment to give it added weight during the early days of the Taiwan-Philippine dispute.

Muchas gracias!






Source link: Taiwan Demands Probe With Philippines Into Fisherman Death (1) - Businessweek

----------

I was on Reuters to support Taiwan President Ma Ying-jeou against the Philippines on May 13, 2013.






Source link: Taiwan gives Philippines ultimatum after fatal shooting of fisherman | Reuters

----------

In case you're wondering, I'm still pounding away at the Philippines. Here is my comment at The Washington Times on May 23, 2013.






Source link: Inside China: Taiwan, China vie for toughness - Washington Times

----------

As the relentless keyboard warrior, here I am criticizing the Philippines on United Press International (UPI) on May 24, 2013.

I will be in the mainstream western media forever to remind the Philippines of their crimes until they start to behave in a civilized manner.






Source link: Philippines to spend $1.8 billion on defense upgrades - UPI.com


----------



## gambit

Martian2 said:


> *Chinese 1948 South China Sea map predates 1959 U.S. annexation of Hawaii*
> 
> Can you sue the United States in any U.N. court to challenge the American annexation of Hawaii in 1959? Obviously, no.
> 
> Therefore, can you sue China in any U.N. court to challenge the 1948 Chinese territorial map (which reflects 2,000 years of sovereignty over the South China Sea since its discovery by the Han Dynasty)?
> 
> The answer is also clearly "no." The United States will tell you to go frack off if you try to question U.S. sovereignty over Hawaii. Similarly, China is telling the Philippines (and UNCLOS if necessary) to frack off over 2,000-year-old Chinese islands in the South China Sea as reflected in the 1948 nine-dash-line map.


This is where you are wrong. As usual.

Of course anyone can take the US to court to contest US sovereignty over any territory. Do you even understand why there is a legal contestant system in the first place? Apparently -- *NOT*.

When you contest someone over an issue in the legal system, you are effectively saying that you want to resolve a conflict in a peaceful and *MORAL* manner. Civilized peoples throughout the ages and over the world have *ALWAYS* have a morally compelling conflict resolution system. The words 'morally compelling conflict resolution' mean all contestants agreed to obey a verbal ruling regarding the conflict. That verbal ruling can only come from one place: The moral foundation of that civilization.

It does not matter if that verbal ruling is from a single judge or a panel of respected arbiters. What matters is that there is such a system in place, that conflicts are *FIRST* diverted to that system, and that contestants are willing to obey the ruling from that system. This removes the need for a government, be it a democracy or a monarchy or even a tribal chief, to resort to physical coercion. The system needs a moral people in order to function.

So you are wrong. If the US government wants to tell you to frack off, it will do so in a polite manner through this system. The US government is a contestant in a conflict, so is anyone willing to take the US government to court.

So can any or all of the other Asian powers take Imperial China to the international court system to try to resolve the South China Sea conflict? Absolutely. They can morally one-up Imperial China by telling the world they are willing to obey a morally compelling ruling from a panel of respected experts.


----------



## gambit

Martian2 said:


> *Reality Check*
> 
> I put up with you anti-China guys, *because you help me think through my positions.*


Good, that means you are learning -- from us. 



Martian2 said:


> As a reality check, you should acknowledge that I'm the person with a noticeable presence in the mainstream media (such as BusinessWeek, Reuters, Washington Times, and United Press International). I have something to say.


Stroking your ego here is not going to help. Others also will read how you are often proven wrong on many things. They will use what they learned and will let their governments know of their support.



Martian2 said:


> You guys don't even exist.


Neither do you.


----------



## Minjitta

Viet said:


> Why not copy "Chinese" style? I can invent something like such thing: Japan discovered China in ancient times, so China belongs to Japan.


Half of China today belong to Great Viet, with that history Viet Nam have better argument than China with those islands.


----------



## longyi

Since the Great Viet defeated the Americans they can lay claim to America too, isn't it?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## jhungary

This is what he said



> As a reality check, you should acknowledge that I'm the person with a *noticeable presence* in the mainstream media (such as BusinessWeek, Reuters, Washington Times, and United Press International). I have something to say.
> 
> Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...a-sea-news-discussions-163.html#ixzz2US9qfh3p



but I can't find anything on him on any of the media outlet, where are your "Noticeable Present"??

So, you comment on some Article and make you a "Noticeable Person"?? How does that work??

Then I am an international sensation as I post my comment on different platform, Swedish and Danish Nu, Chinese News Media outlet and Espanol speaking outlet.


----------



## Minjitta

longyi said:


> Since the Great Viet defeated the Americans they can lay claim to America too, isn't it?


Since when Viet defeat America in America?


----------



## jhungary

Minjitta said:


> Since when Viet defeat America in America?



Since when the 9 dash line comes out from the Chinese mouth.

If the 9 Dash line claim is true, then Viet must also had defeated US in American Soil....

Alternative history lol

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## longyi

Minjitta said:


> Since when Viet defeat America in America?




LOL did I say that?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Minjitta

jhungary said:


> Since when the 9 dash line comes out from the Chinese mouth.
> 
> If the 9 Dash line claim is true, then Viet must also had defeated US in American Soil....
> 
> Alternative history lol


These double standard clowns got no clues what going on around them



longyi said:


> LOL did I say that?


your brain are washed up by your beloved PLA


----------



## Rechoice

Minjitta said:


> Half of China today belong to Great Viet, with that history Viet Nam have better argument than China with those islands.



Yes, all such "Yue" Guo in China like Wo Yue, Min Yue, Nam Yue, Dong Yue... amd Bai Yue, were Lands of Viet. But after reunification we have to let them proclaim their own territories and become independence states.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## longyi

Minjitta said:


> your brain are washed up by your beloved PLA




Your judgement is blurred by the hatred of China. 

If you have read my post correctly I didn't mention anything about China. I was just so amazed the Great Viet lay claim on half of China so blatantly like you did.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## jhungary

gambit said:


> *Marty*,
> 
> You are confused between the theoretical concept of 'sovereignty' versus the practical day to day issues of 'governance'. The example of convicted felons hits your argument right between the eyes.
> 
> Governance and governments are about establishing rules and regulations applicable inside political associations and boundaries. Sovereignty is the greater theory that oversees and enables governance and governments. The US is not confined to the geographically contiguous 48 states but include any territories upon which US laws rules supreme.
> 
> Do you have any university level Political Science educkashun at all?
> 
> Self governance does not equal to sovereignty.
> 
> Self governance is the *FREEDOM GRANTED BY A GREATER SOVEREIGN POWER* to create unique rules and regulations believed to be necessary within a territory. If we go by your flawed argument, any degrees of governing autonomy automatically completely negate sovereignty and that mean China should give up Taiwan and Tibet, no?
> 
> With the convicted felon analogy, voting rights falls under governance and this specific right is negated by certain conditions, in this case it is a high crime, but the person who is denied this privilege is still under the sovereign power of the US government.
> 
> Again, Marty: Do you have any university level Political Science educkashun at all? Do you even read any political science books, not Internet blogs, written by political philosophers or even political operatives of any level whose contents are formulated for public consumption, and that whose contents *ARE NOT* approved by the Chinese government?



started to lose interest talking sense to this guy...........

By the way, I should be more clarified on my point, Convicted Felon are disenfranchisement for voting are limited by some form of "retribution" being pays or paid. 

Say for an example, some states in the US recognise a convicted felon to have voting right as long as he pays for his crime committed. However each states does have their unique "recovery" process and some states forbid Felon in different degree from "Recovering" their right to vote. Some states literally ban all type of felon outright. While some listed the extreme crime or crime related to sexual misconduct as a reason of non-recovery.


----------



## Minjitta

longyi said:


> Your judgement is blurred by the hatred of China.
> 
> If you have read my post correctly I didn't mention anything about China. I was just so amazed the Great Viet lay claim on half of China so blatantly like you did.


I don't hate China, just hated when Chinese twist thing around. 
when is the last time you or other Chinese asked them self why the whole world against China?
btw my wife is Chinese from Hainam, and she hated mainland Chinese especially the Hans.


----------



## jhungary

Minjitta said:


> I don't hate China, just hated when Chinese twist thing around.
> when is the last time you or other Chinese asked them self why the whole world against China?
> btw my wife is Chinese from Hainam, and she hated mainland Chinese especially the Hans.



lol dude, I am part Chinese I lived in China/Hong Kong for a duration of over 20 years. Yet I still got the label of Chinese Hater.

For Chinese member here, those who don't follow their stream are all Chinese Hater, what you are or to some extend what your wife is, does not give them anything 

You can be a Chinese and hate China in their eyes, this is perfectly normal


----------



## longyi

Minjitta said:


> *I don't hate China,* just hated when Chinese twist thing around.
> when is the last time you or other Chinese asked them self why the whole world against China?
> btw my wife is Chinese from Hainam, and she hated mainland Chinese especially the Hans.





Just go check your post history to see if they match your claim above. And you also by labeling me: "*your brain are washed up by your beloved PLA*" without knowing me and the history of my post show your bias.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## VietHome

Martian2 said:


> I put up with you anti-China guys, because you help me think through my positions.
> 
> As a reality check, you should acknowledge that I'm the person with a noticeable presence in the mainstream media (such as BusinessWeek, Reuters, Washington Times, and United Press International). I have something to say.
> 
> You guys don't even exist.


First of all, it's not about "anti-china," it's about being against People Republic of China and its principal, the Communist Party of China's bullying behaviors toward smaller nations. A country that takes away other's land by force should not be able to claim moral superiority. Most of the posters from all over the world, besides China and Pakistan, are trying to make sure the aggressor's claim of false moral high-ground does not go unchallenged. 

I must say, being an internet warrior does not mean your views are the *truth*. If you are ready to post opinionated misinformation, you should be ready to defend it.

I have posted in many American forums, talking about geo-politics all over the world. But I have never boasted myself as authoritative in the issues. 

I have read many forum posts in my life, but your thread on "Philippine killing of Taiwanese fisherman is crime against humanity" is the most jaw-dropping one in term of its sheer ridiculousness. 



Martian2 said:


> I want to express my gratitude to all 35 people that supported my post on BusinessWeek against the Philippines. I only know the names of two of you (e.g. Liang and Aurorae).
> 
> I am grateful to the 33 anonymous people that voted for my comment to give it added weight during the early days of the Taiwan-Philippine dispute.
> 
> Muchas gracias!


Again, the fact that you posted on American's forum *does not make you right*. However, it will guarantee more people will see how ridiculous PRC's cheer-leading opinions are.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Eliter

The picture is a jape


----------



## Eliter

Picture failure.uploading again.


September.4.1958,China government was declared Chinese territorial waters included Xi sha Islands(Paracel Islands ) and Nan sha Islands(Spratly Islands ).

September.14.1958,Vietnam government was present a note to China government. declared"agree and support".

















&#8220;Comrade Prime Minister,

&#12288;&#12288;We have the honour to bring to your knowledge that the Government of the DRVN recognizes and supports the declaration dated 4th September, 1958 of the Government of the PRC fixing the width of the Chinese territorial waters. The Government of the DRVN respects this decision and will give instructions to its State bodies to respect the 12-mile width of the territorial waters of China in all their relations in the maritime field with the PRC. I address to you, comrade Prime Minister, the assurance of my distinguished consideration&#8221;.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Minjitta

to Martian2
is this the video you referring to the 1988 mass murder by PLA
YouTube

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Minjitta

Eliter said:


> Picture failure.uploading again.
> 
> 
> September.4.1958,China government was declared Chinese territorial waters included Xi sha Islands(Paracel Islands ) and Nan sha Islands(Spratly Islands ).
> 
> September.14.1958,Vietnam government was present a note to China government. declared"agree and support".


Why would China needed PND letter when China claim spartly islands since 1948. If PVD letter that much value to China, then China needed to go to the UN Court with that letter as a proof.
so when China going to the UN Court with PND letter?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Eliter

Minjitta said:


> Why would China needed PND letter when China claim spartly islands since 1948. If PVD letter that much value to China, then China needed to go to the UN Court with that letter as a proof.
> so when China going to the UN Court with PND letter?



&#36234;&#21335;&#24635;&#29702;&#33539;&#25991;&#21516;&#33268;&#21608;&#24681;&#26469;&#24635;&#29702;&#30340;&#22806;&#20132;&#25991;&#20070;

&#12288;&#12288;&#8220;Comrade Prime Minister,

&#12288;&#12288;We have the honour to bring to your knowledge that the Government of the DRVN recognizes and supports the declaration dated 4th September, 1958 of the Government of the PRC fixing the width of the Chinese territorial waters. The Government of the DRVN respects this decision and will give instructions to its State bodies to respect the 12-mile width of the territorial waters of China in all their relations in the maritime field with the PRC. I address to you, comrade Prime Minister, the assurance of my distinguished consideration&#8221;.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

Ok, first, if you gonna quote someone's letter, please refer to his title correctly. Pham Van Dong was not Vietnam Primer, he was Vietnam Prime Minister during the times that letter was written. Since you seems awfully unfamiliar with Soviet's style of governance, I will tell you right now that Prime Minister is not the representative head of Vietnam, nor the actual person yielding the most power. The representative head of Vietnam is the President of Vietnam, who at the time was Truong Chinh. The group yields the most power in Vietnam is the Politburo. The group that has any power of passing laws or approving Treaties is the National Assembly (or Congress)

So given that lay out of the land, my first point are in order:

1) Pham Van Dong has no authority to approve the concession of lands nor he can proactively 
conceded future lands acquired. That power rest solely on National Assembly according to Democratic Republic of Vietnam's (North Vietnam) Constitution. Thus, that letter bare no legality in under Vietnam's law.

2) North Vietnam did not have the power of give away lands it does not own under international laws. This is common sense. A person cannot sell what he/she does not own. Nations relationship are the same way. *North Vietnam cannot give away Paracel or Spratly islands because those belonged to South Vietnam under the Geneva Convention*. It's like North Korea cannot give away Seoul to the China because it's not North Korea to give. Thus that letter bare no legality under International law. 

3) Finally, the letter is not a Concession Declaration and the texts in this short letter never mention the give away of Paracel or Spratly islands. In case you think the above two points are not convincing enough. The letter is not a Concession Declaration because it did not have definitive words such as "abandon claims," "concede." "acknowledge ownership of" those specific islands. "Respecting claim" is tame and does means much anyways. PRC's spoke man always parroting the same lines that 'PRC respects other nations' territories,' yet they violate those territories on the daily basis. 

In conclusion, the Pham Van Dong's letter that you used as utmost proof is illegitimate under Vietnam Laws, illegitimate under International Laws, and not a Concession Declaration of anything let alone naming specific give-away territories. 

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...tween-taiwan-philippines-8.html#ixzz2UMirebzh



> &#36234;&#21335;&#24635;&#29702;&#33539;&#25991;&#21516;&#33268;&#21608;&#24681;&#26469;&#24635;&#29702;&#30340;&#22806;&#20132;&#25991;&#20070;
> 
> &#12288;&#12288;&#8220;Comrade Prime Minister,
> 
> &#12288;&#12288;We have the honour to bring to your knowledge that the Government of the DRVN recognizes and supports the declaration dated 4th September, 1958 of the Government of the PRC fixing the width of the Chinese territorial waters. *The Government of the DRVN respects this decision and will give instructions to its State bodies to respect the 12-mile width of the territorial waters of China in all their relations in the maritime field with the PRC.* I address to you, comrade Prime Minister, the assurance of my distinguished consideration&#8221;.
> 
> Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...a-sea-news-discussions-165.html#ixzz2UMnw3giu



12 miles of coustline of maindland China only, which related to North Vietnam.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Minjitta

Rechoice said:


> Ok, first, if you gonna quote someone's letter, please refer to his title correctly. Pham Van Dong was not Vietnam Primer, he was Vietnam Prime Minister during the times that letter was written. Since you seems awfully unfamiliar with Soviet's style of governance, I will tell you right now that Prime Minister is not the representative head of Vietnam, nor the actual person yielding the most power. The representative head of Vietnam is the President of Vietnam, who at the time was Truong Chinh. The group yields the most power in Vietnam is the Politburo. The group that has any power of passing laws or approving Treaties is the National Assembly (or Congress)
> 
> So given that lay out of the land, my first point are in order:
> 
> 1) Pham Van Dong has no authority to approve the concession of lands nor he can proactively
> conceded future lands acquired. That power rest solely on National Assembly according to Democratic Republic of Vietnam's (North Vietnam) Constitution. Thus, that letter bare no legality in under Vietnam's law.
> 
> 2) North Vietnam did not have the power of give away lands it does not own under international laws. This is common sense. A person cannot sell what he/she does not own. Nations relationship are the same way. *North Vietnam cannot give away Paracel or Spratly islands because those belonged to South Vietnam under the Geneva Convention*. It's like North Korea cannot give away Seoul to the China because it's not North Korea to give. Thus that letter bare no legality under International law.
> 
> 3) Finally, the letter is not a Concession Declaration and the texts in this short letter never mention the give away of Paracel or Spratly islands. In case you think the above two points are not convincing enough. The letter is not a Concession Declaration because it did not have definitive words such as "abandon claims," "concede." "acknowledge ownership of" those specific islands. "Respecting claim" is tame and does means much anyways. PRC's spoke man always parroting the same lines that 'PRC respects other nations' territories,' yet they violate those territories on the daily basis.
> 
> In conclusion, the Pham Van Dong's letter that you used as utmost proof is illegitimate under Vietnam Laws, illegitimate under International Laws, and not a Concession Declaration of anything let alone naming specific give-away territories.
> 
> Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...tween-taiwan-philippines-8.html#ixzz2UMirebzh


There are no point to argue with these twisted, double standard, and brain washed human.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Martian2

jhungary said:


> This is what he said
> 
> but I can't find anything on him on any of the media outlet, where are your "Noticeable Present"??
> 
> So, you comment on some Article and make you a "Noticeable Person"?? How does that work??
> 
> Then I am an international sensation as I post my comment on different platform, Swedish and Danish Nu, Chinese News Media outlet and Espanol speaking outlet.



*I can make a difference sometimes*

You are not looking hard enough. Here are more citations (see below). The most prominent is the screen-grab from USA Today. I'm pretty sure the whole United States saw my comment on USA Today.

My effect on the mainstream media is indirect. For example, the media claimed China was manipulating its currency. I challenged the mainstream media with my comment that China's currency had appreciated by 30% in six years.

Within 18 hours of my comments being posted on UPI and many other sites (which I can't remember anymore), Reuters modified their story to mention that the Chinese currency had appreciated 30% in six years. This happened across all major newspapers. The lone holdout was CNN. CNN reported that China's currency had appreciated more than 20% in five years.

I can make a difference sometimes.

With regard to the Taiwan-Philippine dispute, I'm pretty sure I was the first person to point out that the Philippine murder of the Taiwanese fisherman occurred within Taiwan's 200-mile EEZ. It took a few days, but major news organizations started pointing that out too.

Finally, I think you're delusional in comparing your posts on Swedish and Danish Nu to my posts on major American newspapers like BusinessWeek, Reuters, Bloomberg News, UPI, USA Today, CNN, ABC News, CNBC, etc.

----------

*Year 2011 in retrospective*

I would say that the two most important China-related issues (where I interjected my opinions) were the Chinese currency debate in October and the South China Sea in June of this year.

To clarify, I didn't just post on USA Today. I also posted on UPI (United Press International), CNN, Washington Post, Los Angeles Times, Wall Stree Journal, NASDAQ, and a lot of other mainstream websites. I was virtually everywhere in the mainstream press under my pseudonyms "Martian" and "China Lee."

From my October 28, 2011 post:

*I indirectly challenged the American Media's credibility*

Earlier this month, I indirectly challenged the American media's credibility. If you want a good laugh, read the article by USA Today (link: http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/st...56/1?csp=34news) as they bashed China:



> "We cannot continue to let China flaunt the rules," Sen. Chuck Schumer, a Democrat, said. If action isn't taken, "we may never recover as a country. This is serious stuff."
> 
> Economists agree that the yuan is undervalued by 25% to 30% against the dollar; some put it as high as 40%. The result is that Chinese goods are increasingly cheaper in the United States and U.S. products more expensive in China.


If I was ignorant of the truth, I would be pretty upset too! My God, according to USA Today, those Chinese are cheating and undervaluing their currency! It is a pretty upsetting article until you read the second comment (reproduced below), which is located at the end of the article. Ooops! Never mind! Ha ha ha. I posted the truth for the entire country to see.





USA Today forgot to tell its readers that China's currency has already appreciated 30% in the last six years.

I thought I would share the story before I forget it in another few weeks.

I also posted in the comment section of YouTube videos regarding China's currency. See example below.

Senate Votes to Consider Anti-China Bill - YouTube

I should tell you the rest of the story. For days prior to my posts, the Western Media only printed stories about China undervaluing its currency by 25 to 40% and there were a few sporadic articles that mentioned China had appreciated its currency by 7% since 2010.

Eighteen hours after I posted my comment everywhere (that China's currency had appreciated by 30% in the last six years), Reuters published its first story that China had appreciated its currency by 30% since 2005. After Reuters, major publications also published the fact that China's currency had appreciated by 30%. The exception was CNN. CNN wrote that China's currency had appreciated by "over 20%."

The Western media have a choice. They can tell their readers the truth or I'll do it for them.

----------

My posts in the mainstream media on the South China Sea were relevant to the debate. After I pointed out that the South China Sea and islands were discovered and claimed by China for 1,400 years, the mainstream media changed their articles and incorporated this historical fact.

Within 12 hours after my first batch of posts, I noticed the Guardian was the first to acknowledge the Chinese side of the story. Reuters followed. Next was CNN. After that, all major news publications started printing that the Chinese had a thousand-year-old claim to the South China Sea islands.

From my June 24, 2011 post:

*Checkmate*

Peter, you and all of the China-haters are too late. I have posted everywhere in the mainstream media (e.g. Boston Globe, CNBC, CNN, Miami Herald, NASDAQ, Reuters, Sacramento Bee, Wall Street Journal, Washington Post, Washington Times, etc.) and YouTube over the last 12 days.

This is my reaction to the stubborn Vietnamese posters that came into the Chinese sub-forum and raised a ruckus.

Look in the comment section and the number of "*China Lee*" comments. Who do you think had the last laugh? You or me?

-----

Here is an example:

Rivals push to rename the South China Sea &#8211; Global Public Square - CNN.com Blogs

-----

I am also on foreign websites, such as this one in India.

http://www.2point6billion.com/news/2011/06...1#comment-97287

-----

On The Hill's Congress Blog, Senator Inhofe makes his point and I make mine in the first comment.

http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/for...ot-be-tolerated

-----

Senator McCain makes his point in an article and I present the counterpoint in the first comment. Where have you been Peter? You missed the party.

http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/blo...ost.aspx?ID=452

----------

From my June 25, 2011 post:

*The mouse that roared*

I forgot to mention something important. On 10% of the Western news sites, I was censored. San Francisco Chronicle, The Seattle Times, and a few other newspapers deleted my comment on China's 1,400-year-old first discovery of Paracel Islands. Also, Reuters decided to ban me from commenting after I posted a different comment on a second China-Vietnam article.

Nevertheless, I cannot be censored. I simply move to other news services, such as The Diplomat or Foreign Policy. The more that some newspapers try to censor me (by deleting my comment or refusing to post it), the more determined I become to be heard. The Long Island Press held my comment for review by a moderator for four days and then quietly deleted my submission request.

It is ironic that every time they censored my comment, I received a boost in energy and determination to post on ten more websites. I think I have made over two hundred posts on news sites and YouTube during the last 12 days.

The moral of the story is that if you try to censor this mouse, I will roar!

-----

See fifth full comment (e.g. don't count the replies to original comments):

China to US: Keep Out | China Power

See second full comment:

South China Sea or me? | Prestowitz

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## gambit

jhungary said:


> started to lose interest talking sense to this guy...........
> 
> By the way, I should be more clarified on my point, Convicted Felon are disenfranchisement for voting are limited by some form of "retribution" being pays or paid.
> 
> Say for an example, some states in the US recognise a convicted felon to have voting right as long as he pays for his crime committed. However *each states does have their unique "recovery" process* and some states forbid Felon in different degree from "Recovering" their right to vote. Some states literally ban all type of felon outright. While some listed the extreme crime or crime related to sexual misconduct as a reason of non-recovery.


This simply means Marty is utterly incompetent in this debate when he confused sovereignty with governance. The two ideas are related but not the same. The diversity equals the freedom granted by a sovereign power -- the US -- to each entity in this federation. No different with the association with Puerto Rico.


----------



## cirr

China Transmission won an order for 31 propulstion systems for government law enforcement vessels:

???31???ö_??_??????


























It must be fun seeing hundreds of CCG vessels banishing baboons and monkeys in the SCS in a couple of years.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## EastSea

can not seen nothing, propaganda trashes fail.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Soryu

Eliter said:


> Picture failure.uploading again.
> 
> 
> September.4.1958,China government was declared Chinese territorial waters included Xi sha Islands(Paracel Islands ) and Nan sha Islands(Spratly Islands ).
> 
> September.14.1958,Vietnam government was present a note to China government. declared"agree and support".
> 
> &#8220;Comrade Prime Minister,
> 
> &#12288;&#12288;We have the honour to bring to your knowledge that the Government of the DRVN recognizes and supports the declaration dated 4th September, 1958 of the Government *of the PRC fixing the width of the Chinese territorial waters*. The Government of the DRVN respects this decision and will give instructions to its State bodies to respect *the 12-mile width of the territorial waters of China in all their relations in the maritime field with the PRC*. I address to you, comrade Prime Minister, *the assurance of my distinguished consideration*&#8221;.



Correct for you, Kid.  ( since you didn't know Vietnamese and was brain wash by your Government ) 



> &#8220;Comrade Prime Minister,
> 
> &#12288;&#12288;We have the honour to bring to your knowledge that the Government of the DRVN recognizes and supports the declaration dated 4th September, 1958 of the Government of *the PRC declaration about the Chinese territorial waters*. The Government of the DRVN respects this decision and will give instructions to its State bodies to *respect the 12 nautical mile of the territorial waters of China, in all relations (between Vietnam - China PRC ) in the maritime field with the PRC*. We (I) address to you, comrade Prime Minister, *the most respectfully greeting*&#8221;.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Eliter

Soryu said:


> Correct for you, Kid.  ( since you didn't know Vietnamese and was brain wash by your Government )



This official political map was published by Vietnam(DRVN) Government 1958.
Everybody can't find Hoàng Sa and Tr&#432;ong Sa.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Minjitta

Eliter said:


> This official political map was published by Vietnam(DRVN) Government 1958.
> Everybody can't find Hoàng Sa and Tr&#432;ong Sa.



simple because it made in China look at the right bottom corner prints in Chinese

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Soryu

Eliter said:


> This official political map was published by Vietnam(DRVN) Government 1958.
> Everybody can't find Hoàng Sa and Tr&#432;ong Sa.



This map was printed by PRC Government who was want take Islands from Vietnam. Can we expect our Islands's name appear on this map!?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

*Old atlas affirms Vietnam&#8217;s sovereignty over Hoang Sa, Truong Sa*

The Vietnam Buddhist Sangha Central Committee on August 28 announced an atlas under the Guangxu reign of the Chinese Qing dynasty, proving Hainan Island to be the last Chinese strip of land in the region.

The book was kept in the Phuoc Trang bookcase at the house of Tran Dinh Ba (1867-1933), who copied it when he worked as the Minister of Justice under the Khai Dinh reign (1916-1925). 

The book is now preserved by Ba&#8217;s descendant, researcher Tran Dinh Son, who is currently living in Ho Chi Minh City . 





Researcher Tran Dinh Son debuts the book (Source: VNA)


The &#8220;Dia du do khao&#8221; (geographical and administrative atlas) has a hardback covered with red silk. It includes 65 pages with Chinese characters on both sides and is divided into 20 sections with 20 detailed maps attached.

Prof. Cao Huy Thuan, lecturer of Law and Politics at the French Picardi University , described researcher Son&#8217;s contributions as providing new evidence to affirm Vietnam &#8217;s sovereignty over Hoang Sa and Truong Sa archipelagoes and that China itself recognised Hainan Island as the last strip of its border. 

According to Son, *there are still big rocks in Yu Lin, the southern most point of Hainan Island, carved with the words &#8220;ends of the world&#8221; and &#8220;boundless sea and sky&#8221; proving that the Chinese government, since the Qing dynasty, did not recognised Hoang Sa (called Xisha by China) as its territory*.-VNA

http://en.vietnamplus.vn/Home/Old-atlas-affirms-Vietnams-sovereignty-over-Hoang-Sa-Truong-Sa/20128/28234.vnplus

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zero_wing

Well they love more resources because the chinese are greedy f@cks stealing from allies and foe alike is not enough for them so they claim wholes seas next time they claim the whole world

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Eliter

Minjitta said:


> simple because it made in China look at the right bottom corner prints in Chinese



That Words was a Chinese reader take notes by himself who was studied Vietnamese language.

Vietnamese! Can you take me a official map was published by Vietnam(DRVN) before 1972 included Hoàng Sa and Tr&#432;ong Sa?

you can't take them.That maps nothingness.

This official map was published by Vietnam(DRVN) Government 1966.
Everybody can't find Hoàng Sa and Tr&#432;ong Sa.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Eliter

Nansha Qundao, Nansha Islands, Spratly Islands,China (&#20013;&#22269; &#21335;&#27801;&#32676;&#23707

Bai Jiao, Barque Canada Reef(&#26575;&#30977

2009X2049

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

*China old atlas affirms Vietnam&#8217;s sovereignty over Hoang Sa, Truong Sa*






there are still big rocks in Yu Lin, the southern most point of Hainan Island, carved with the words &#8220;ends of the world&#8221; and &#8220;boundless sea and sky&#8221; proving that the Chinese government, since the Qing dynasty, did not recognised Hoang Sa (called Xisha by China) as its territory.

*Most important thing related to the atlas is that: officially Chinese govt has been stating by word in atlas under the Guangxu reign of the Chinese Qing dynasty, proving Hainan Island to be the last Chinese strip of land in the region. There of, China have to obey all terms, condition in UNCLOS without any historic exception, *


This is the main meaning of debate about China map in Atlas, understand thief boy ?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Soryu

Eliter said:


> That Words was a Chinese reader take notes by himself who was studied Vietnamese language.
> 
> Vietnamese! Can you take me a official map was published by Vietnam(DRVN) before 1972 included Hoàng Sa and Tr&#432;ong Sa?
> 
> you can't take them.That maps nothingness.
> 
> This official map was published by Vietnam(DRVN) Government 1966.
> Everybody can't find Hoàng Sa and Tr&#432;ong Sa.



Are you blind!? Did you not see many maps draw by Vietnamese and Western people from Nguyen Dynasty era and in French colonial era (draw by Colony Government ) that we were post in this topic !?.

A old question for you: Why did chinese scholars not show that map as a proof in any International & Regional Conference about SCS !?

LOL, simple your proof and argument are fail, fake and useless as legal proof in case.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## EastSea

Maps of Islands of Vietnam.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## jhungary

gambit said:


> This simply means Marty is utterly incompetent in this debate when he confused sovereignty with governance. The two ideas are related but not the same. The diversity equals the freedom granted by a sovereign power -- the US -- to each entity in this federation. No different with the association with Puerto Rico.



lol, I now suspect the guy not even living in the US to begin with. Or at least not educated in the US, as far as I remember, you are require to pass US history to graduate from any US Public High School and get your diploma. Well, personally I did not attend High School in the US. Somebody told me this.

His knowledge of America indicate that he either do not know anything about how US government on both States level and Federal Level work, or he simply lying infavour of his point. Even my niece who brought up in Australia know more about US than this guy who claim he lived in Boston.


----------



## Eliter

EastSea said:


> Maps of Islands of Vietnam.




Vietnamese! Can you take me the map Which year published?


----------



## Rechoice

The map of Great Nam Emperor.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## hurt

Rechoice said:


> The map of Great Nam Emperor.



you show your wrong map again

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## faithfulguy

Its time for everyone to develop the islands together instead of constant bickering.


----------



## Rechoice

hurt said:


> you show your wrong map again



You are blind, don't seen nothing.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NiceGuy

Eliter said:


> Vietnamese! Can you take me the map Which year published?


Before 1975,south VN gov controlled those isl, this is the map published by Shouth VN gov before 1975.u can see 'Viet Nam Cong Hoa( republic of VietNam ) on the upper left conner





North VN didnt control those isl,just like North Korea has no right to cede Seoul to China, North VN prime minister' letter to China is nothing but Trash used to cheat idiot China leader

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Eliter

Soryu said:


> Are you blind!? Did you not see many maps draw by Vietnamese and Western people from Nguyen Dynasty era and in French colonial era (draw by Colony Government ) that we were post in this topic !?.
> 
> A old question for you: Why did chinese scholars not show that map as a proof in any International & Regional Conference about SCS !?
> 
> LOL, simple your proof and argument are fail, fake and useless as legal proof in case.




1&#12289;Nguyen Dynasty map was Forged document by French colonizer.

2&#12289; French colonial map ( published by Colony Government ) ?
Vietnamese! Look here!This map was published by France 1912 or 1935.Everybody can't find Hoàng Sa and Tr&#432;ong Sa.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## hurt

Rechoice said:


> You are blind, don't seen nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/QUOTE
> 
> I cant find any islands in Modern maps at same place.


----------



## Rechoice

hurt said:


> Rechoice said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are blind, don't seen nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/QUOTE
> 
> I cant find any islands in Modern maps at same place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For ancient map, demonstration the territory is most important thing, idea for confirm that Islands belong to Vietnam's mainland, so Islands were drawn up closer, Do you understand ?
Click to expand...

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Rechoice

Eliter said:


> 1&#12289;Nguyen Dynasty map was Forged document by French colonizer.
> 
> 2&#12289; French colonial map ( published by Colony Government ) ?
> Vietnamese! Look here!This map was published by France 1912 or 1935.Everybody can't find Hoàng Sa and Tr&#432;ong Sa.



Nguyen Dynaty "Great Nam Emperor"'s map was made before Colonial time, Your question is idiot.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## hurt

Rechoice said:


> Nguyen Dynaty "Great Nam Emperor"'s map was made before Colonial time, Your question is idiot.



it was made before Colonial time,why not say those marks are Luzon?
Your idiot ancients dont konw whats distance,maybe dont know whats size.


----------



## Rechoice

hurt said:


> it was made before Colonial time,why not say those marks are Luzon?
> Your idiot ancients dont konw whats distance,maybe dont know whats size.



You are sill showed you are stupid . Look again map below, can you read Han Ji ? Vietnamese stated " &#33836;&#37324;&#38263;&#27801; " or in English " Ten thousands miles". It's size òf our Íslands

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## hurt

Rechoice said:


> You are sill showed you are stupid . Look again map below, can you read Han Ji ? Vietnamese stated " &#33836;&#37324;&#38263;&#27801; " or in English " Ten thousands miles". It's size òf our Íslands



Vietnamese ?


----------



## Soryu

Rechoice said:


> You are blind, don't seen nothing.


Just ignore him, bro. 
He's just idiot clown who was condemned by others chinese member because his bullshjt post... 


Eliter said:


> 1&#12289;Nguyen Dynasty map was Forged document by French colonizer.
> 
> 2&#12289; French colonial map ( published by Colony Government ) ?
> Vietnamese! Look here!This map was published by France 1912 or 1935.Everybody can't find Hoàng Sa and Tr&#432;ong Sa.


1. Nguyen Dynasty era maps was draw by both Vietnamese ( Nguyen Dynasty ) and Western people like travellers, traders, and missionaries.

2. I didn't see your image, it's not display ...

3. If those maps can use as proofs for PRC's claim, Why did they not show off that in any SCS conference !?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

But, China Passprt's map not included tiny point to Senkaku.


----------



## Krueger

Thanh Nien News 
May 28, 2013

Vietnam has accused a Chinese vessel of attacking a Vietnamse fishing boat off the coast of Vietnam's Paracel (Hoang Sa) Islands, calling the incident a breach of international maritime law.

*"This is a very serious case, violating Vietnam's sovereignty, threatening the lives and sabotaging the properties of Vietnamese fishermen,"* Luong Thanh Nghi, the Foreign Ministry spokesman, said in a statement late Monday.

The attack is against the spirit of the talks in which Beijing committed to fully follow the Declaration on the Conduct of the Parties in the South China Sea (DOC), Nghi said.

*"Vietnam resolutely opposes this and demands that China investigate and strictly deal with the above wrongdoings and compensate for the damages carried by Vietnamese fishermen,"* he said.

He also said Vietnamese Foreign Ministry officials on Sunday met representatives of the Chinese embassy in Hanoi. The Vietnamese officials handed over a diplomatic note objecting to the attack, he added.

Tran Van Trung, captain of the attacked vessel, said the incident had happened on May 20 when he and 15 crew members were some 27 nautical miles off Quang Ngai Province's Tri Ton Island of the Paracels, when they were surrounded by a fleet of 18 Chinese boats. The waters where the incident took place has been considered Vietnam's exclusive economic zone.

The Chinese boats continuously forced him to drive his boat away, Trung was quoted by Tuoi Tre (Youth) newspaper as saying. The Chinese forces filmed and photographed them as well, he said.

Later a red boat twice crashed into the Vietnamese boat, causing VND100 million (US$4,689) in damages, according to the Tuoi Tre report.

In March, Vietnam also said a Chinese ship fired flares at four Vietnamese fishing boats from Quang Ngai Province that were fishing in their traditional fishing grounds in the Paracels, a move Vietnam criticized as inhumane and dangerous.
Over the years, hundreds of Vietnamese fishermen and their crews have fallen prey to Chinas increasingly aggressive patrols around the disputed islands in the East Sea, internationally known as the South China Sea.

China and four members of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN)  Vietnam, the Philippines, Malaysia and Brunei  are embroiled in sovereignty disputes over the East Sea, internationally known as the South China Sea.

China illegally claims sovereignty over 80 percent of the East Sea.

The waters are thought to hold vast untapped reserves of oil and natural gas that could potentially place China, the Philippines, Vietnam, and other claimant nations alongside the likes of Saudi Arabia, Russia, and Qatar.

In 1974, taking advantage of the withdrawal of the American troops from the Vietnam War, China invaded the Paracel Islands. A brief but bloody naval battle with the forces of the then US-backed Republic of Vietnam ensued.

Vietnams behemoth northern neighbor has illegally occupied the islands ever since. But a post-1975 united Vietnam has never relinquished its ownership of the Paracel Islands and continues to keep military bases and other facilities on the Spratly Islands.

Vietnam has also recently voiced its opposition to and dismissed Chinas unilateral ban on fishing in the East Sea that is effective until August.

Vietnam said the banned area encompasses its waters and violates its sovereignty over the Paracels.

To make matter worse, in early this month, China sent one of its largest fishing fleets on record to the disputed Spratly (Truong Sa) Islands, a move analysts say that will inevitably deplete fish stocks further, affecting Southeast Asian littoral states that rely heavily on the same fisheries. 

By doing so, analysts say Beijing can dare others to try to expel Chinese fishing boats from one expanse while daring other nations' fishing boats to enter another expanse patrolled by Chinese vessels.

"China will continue to creatively seek new ways to assert its claims commensurate with its increased presence in the area and widening power gap vis-a-vis the other claimants," said Ristian Supriyanto, a maritime expert with the S. Rajaratnam School of International Studies in Singapore.

"Although these assertions are actually disregarded by the other claimants, they are enough to demonstrate Chinese resolve," Supriyanto told Thanh Nien News.

The analysts say if China is not opposed by claimant states, its actions will lay the foundation to claim that littoral states have acquiesced and accepted China's territorial claim.

By dispatching its own fishing fleet to one zone (the Spratlys) while forbidding others to fish in another (the Paracels), "China considers the case regarding the Paracels with Vietnam 'closed'," said Mark Valencia, a Hawaii-based expert on the dispute.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## faithfulguy

Its time for all the parties to get together and jointly develop South China Sea.


----------



## Krueger

Taipei, May 27 (CNA) *China should hit out when necessary to resolve rows over some shoals in the South China Sea that are unlawfully occupied by other countries*, a Chinese scholar has urged.

In a recent interview with a Shanghai-based radio, Han Xudong, a professor at the PLA National Defense University, issued the call on grounds that it is hard to settle the territorial disputes in that region through soft power such as "diplomatic maneuvering" and China "should strike at any time when necessary against any attempt by other countries to take control of the islets there."

*"Diplomacy only leverages when backed by military might,"* he said, questioning why China cannot make military moves now that the Renai Shoal and Scarborough Shoal are the sovereign territory of China?

Since China's marine power now is strong enough to protect national interests and rights, China should exercise its diplomatic and military clouts interactively to achieve its aim, he contended.

*Conflict between China and the Philippines over the Renai Shoal caught international attention last week after Manila accused Chinese warships of "illegally and provocatively" circling the area*, foreign wire services reported.

The Philippines dispatched ships to Renai Shoal, also known as Second Thomas Shoal, in the Spratly Islands, where a handful of marines were living on a grounded ship -- a former U.S. tank-landing vessel that was intentionally abandoned by Filipino authorities to serve as a base in that area.

Han said that the Philippines has long been coveting shoals in the South China Sea and taking control of them since its independence after World War II, at a time when China was mired in internal fighting and its marine forces were powerless.

Even until the 1980s, China's Navy was still weak and those shoals in the South China Sea were beyond the reach of its power, he said.

The lack of attention paid to the region over the long term allowed the Philippines to send marines to station in waters near the Renai Shoal in 1999 and claim sovereignty over it, he said.

That same year, China's embassy in Yugoslavia was shelled by the United States and the bombardment made Beijing realize the fact that it should strengthen its marine power to safeguard its maritime interests. 

(By Lawrence Chiu and Flor Wang)


----------



## armchairPrivate

Vietminhs!

Go cry to uncle sam, or to your bear friend.

Or better yet, get a big hug from your pinoy buddy.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## faithfulguy

armchairPrivate said:


> Vietminhs!
> 
> Go cry to uncle sam, or to your bear friend.



Their best friend in here is India. I feel sorry for the Vietnamese that fought against the Japanese, French and Americans and now their children and grandchildren are asking India, a western wannabe country, to come help.


----------



## Okemos

Cool story, bro, lol.


----------



## armchairPrivate

^^^^
^^^
India is only a "friend" to Vietnam on pdf.
In real life, Vietnam has no friends.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Okemos

I concur, lets get to action! Endless bickering won't settle any disputes. Plus, the PLA need to be tested in real water. Also wars can help economy when our economy is too saturated with domestic investment. Wars spur technological breakthrough, inspire national morale, so all those "intellectuals" whining on Sina Weibo can shut up. haha . /wink


----------



## neehar

as long as china sticks to its "aggressive diplomacy" its going to have problems in scs.


----------



## Eliter

EastSea said:


> But, China Passprt's map not included tiny point to Senkaku.
> [/IMG]



You are dementia???

China vast territory
Passprt very small,Passprt's map is a diagrammatic sketch,can't include all


----------



## sweetouch

no more 'peaceful' rise


----------



## GR!FF!N

Not going to happen.China will never risk another push to form "Anti Chinese Nato".plus,this is going to be funnier...their ridiculous demands of 9 dotted line and shoals/islands in it is making it a laughing stock in front of whole world and its the violation of UNCLOS itself.also,other countries too are taking hard stand on this matter and buying equipment that will make China "Devil to pay"..China willn't risk another full fledged war.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Juice

Blow hot air when necessary....Chinese "scholar" (probably from one of those "world class" Chinese air-conditioning colleges)

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## xuxu1457

Philippine Defense Secretary said &#8220;Fight to the last man with China&#8221;, is this declare a war&#65311;&#65311;&#65311;
UK can fight for a island 10000KM away, so...... who knows
India and US...always laugh China has no combat experience for 30 years, so why not

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Eliter

New CHINA COAST GUARD


----------



## EastSea

Stone mark of sovereignty of Vietnam in Hoang Sa in Colonial time, noted "France republic - Annam Kingdom"

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Soryu

China pirates just dare to bullying small fishing-boat, they were not dare to complain when our VMP and VPN ships ramp on their CMS ship

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

These scholars will never step on combat area, so very easy and good for them bla bla bla ....


----------



## Developereo

Krueger said:


> Shanghai-based radio



I guess China also has their version of "Fairly Unbalanced" experts.


----------



## VietHome

Because I love maps, I will give our PRC friends some pretty maps to look at

Everyone in the world has recognized Paracel and Spratly belongs to Vietnam since the early years of their exploration in Asia

At the time, Vietnam was separated into two nation-states known as Tunquin (North) and Cochinchina (South) All the maps here recognized Paracel and Spartly under Cochinchina's administration. 

Map by Jodocus Hondius in 1613






Map by W. Blaeu in 1645






Map by Visscher in 1680






Map by Homann Heirs in 1744






Map by Mariette in 1790






This one by Joachim Ottens in 1710






And this pretty boy drawn by Amsterdam's firm Covens and Mortier around 1760






Notice that all those maps drawn many centuries ago look more professional and accurate than the Cow-tongue (Nine-dash) map drawn by the Republic of China (Taiwan, not even PRC) in 1948!!!

This is the map PRC drew themselves in 1950, after they won over mainland China 






I think PRC needs to take over ROC first before they can claim Taiwan's Cow-tongue (Nine-dash) map theirs.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Hellraiser007

Developereo said:


> I guess China also has their version of "Fairly Unbalanced" experts.



Those guys sitting in USA have no support in the public, people do not care that much about Fox news,etc....etc....

You cannot compare it with the CCP media which is what Chinese people see and brainwashed.


----------



## Hellraiser007

faithfulguy said:


> Their best friend in here is India. I feel sorry for the Vietnamese that fought against the Japanese, French and Americans and now their children and grandchildren are asking India, a western wannabe country, to come help.



We are not western wannabe country, every body knows Chinese obsession with White man.

India-Vietnam relations stretch for deecades, India also helped Vietnam during Vietnam war.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## VietHome

Some pictures of the damages caused by PRC "hooligan" action in the above incident May 2013. The boat was attacked by a China Marine Surveillance ship hull number 264. Note that the fishing boat was running away from those ships, but was relentlessly chased by a pack of China Marine Surveillance ships, a show of bullish behavior. 

The side of the boat was cracked by the hit
















The anchor was pushed into the hull by the violent force

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## xuxu1457

Welcome, Illegal fishing should be drove out, at least they didn't do as Filipino using gun

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## VietHome

xuxu1457 said:


> Welcome, Illegal fishing should be drove out, at least they didn't do as Filipino using *gun*



That happened two months ago in case anyone has intentionally "forgotten"

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Shinigami

faithfulguy said:


> Their best friend in here is India. I feel sorry for the Vietnamese that fought against the Japanese, French and Americans and now their children and grandchildren are asking India, a western wannabe country, to come help.



why are you obsessed with us? this topic has nothing to do with india

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## xuxu1457

VietHome said:


> That happened two months ago in case anyone has intentionally "forgotten"



That time using water gun, if real gun, you can't see them again

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## VietHome

xuxu1457 said:


> That time using *water gun*, if real gun, you *can't see them again*



Please, your PLA's statements even debunked your point. After several days of "Strongly deny" the incident as "sheer fabrication" by PRC's Foreign Ministry, your Defend Ministry finally coughed up that its ship shot flare at the boat, causing explosion and fire. The water gun was probably used to keep the boat from sinking, preventing China from facing an uproar similar to the Philippines incident. That's why we can "see them again." 

BBC News - China 'fired flares' at Vietnam boat in South China Sea

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## GR!FF!N

faithfulguy said:


> Their best friend in here is India. I feel sorry for the Vietnamese that fought against the Japanese, French and Americans and now their children and grandchildren are asking India, a western wannabe country, to come help.



China is much more "western wannabe country" than India.infact even you are staying in West when you're lecturing about East.and their best friend isn't India,its Russia.but why you're dragging us in this thread??It has nothing on India.obsessed I guess....

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Shinigami

GR!FF!N said:


> China is much more "western wannabe country" than India.infact even you are staying in West when you're lecturing about East.and their best friend isn't India,its Russia.but why you're dragging us in this thread??It has nothing on India.obsessed I guess....



compared to east asian countries, india is nowhere near "western wannabe".

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## VietHome

"According to The News Strait Times, Indian Navy sends 4 warships to south China sea in order to perform a series of operations with the Southeast Asian countries, (coming to Vietnam scheduled beginning on May 29)."

Asitimes: Indian warships equipped with ship killer missiles sailing to south China sea

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## xuxu1457

VietHome said:


> Please, your PLA's statements even debunked your point. After several days of "Strongly deny" the incident as "sheer fabrication" by PRC's Foreign Ministry, your Defend Ministry finally coughed up that its ship shot flare at the boat, causing explosion and fire. The water gun was probably used to keep the boat from sinking, preventing China from facing an uproar similar to the Philippines incident. That's why we can "see them again."
> 
> BBC News - China 'fired flares' at Vietnam boat in South China Sea


Yea, any Bullet left that boat??? You get "evidence" from UK????? 10000km away, Tai Wan boat left 42 Bullets, gun with 2km range, VN is scared of water gun!!!


----------



## VietHome

xuxu1457 said:


> Yea, any *Bullet left that boat*??? You get "evidence" from UK????? 10000km away, Tai Wan boat left 42 Bullets, gun with 2km range, VN is scared of water gun!!!



You said "water gun," stop beating around the bushes.

Here is the proof that you want. UK's BBC is many times more reputable than Xinhua News. Chinese propaganda media is bad for your health

"the Chinese Navy 786 "Mannings" boat found and chase expelled, chasing nearly 30 minutes, the Chinese naval vessels fired warning shots and fired flares, Vietnam The fishing boat was hit and caught fire. Upon seeing the Chinese ships stopped chasing."

********.com - Chinese navy opens fire at Vietnamese fishing boat in South China Sea

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## xuxu1457

VietHome said:


> You said "water gun," stop beating around the bushes.
> 
> Here is the proof that you want. UK's BBC is many times more reputable than Xinhua News. Chinese propaganda media is bad for your health
> 
> "the Chinese Navy 786 "Mannings" boat found and chase expelled, chasing nearly 30 minutes, the Chinese naval vessels fired warning shots and fired flares, Vietnam The fishing boat was hit and caught fire. Upon seeing the Chinese ships stopped chasing."
> 
> ********.com - Chinese navy opens fire at Vietnamese fishing boat in South China Sea


&#8220;fired warning shots and fired flares&#8221;&#65292; that must be navy, warning shots, but VN boat don't care about warning, so If real fire is OK, in US, if you don't care about police's warning, police can shoot you, no problem

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cirr

China Coast Guard(CCG), we are here, we are coming, in a big way, in a very big way:






Here we come.


----------



## VietHome

xuxu1457 said:


> &#8220;fired warning shots and fired flares&#8221;&#65292; that must be navy, warning shots, but VN boat don't care about warning, so If real fire is OK, in US, if you don't care about police's warning, police can shoot you, no problem


Again, you continue to run away from my evidence exposing that you are wrong by saying "water gun." I gave you picture, statements, and a video clip. I've started to believe that you will cling to a lie even if truth stares at you in the face. 

Aside from that, are you a sailor? Do you know that seamen fear fire the most? Shooting fire at a boat is even more dangerous than small bullets because fire can bring the boat down. Most naval battleships were sunk by fire, not bullet holes. You see bullet holes on the Taiwanese ship, but it still retains its shape, not turning into ash like the roof of Vietnamese boat. 

Shooting fire at a boat is the utmost aggressive thing to do. This is an act of war since it can kill the entire crew on the boat. That's why people used flaming arrows for ancient navel battles. Honestly, do you even watch your Chinese's historical war movies?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## xuxu1457

VietHome said:


> Again, you continue to run away from my evidence exposing that you are wrong by saying "water gun." I gave you picture, statements, and a video clip. I've started to believe that you will cling to a lie even if truth stares at you in the face.
> 
> Aside from that, are you a sailor? Do you know that seamen fear fire the most? Shooting fire at a boat is even more dangerous than small bullets because fire can bring the boat down. Most naval battleships were sunk by fire, not bullet holes. You see bullet holes on the Taiwanese ship, but it still retains its shape, not turning into ash like the roof of Vietnamese boat.
> 
> Shooting fire at a boat is the utmost aggressive thing to do. This is an act of war since it can kill the entire crew on the boat. That's why people used flaming arrows for ancient navel battles. Honestly, do you even watch your Chinese's historical war movies?


Funny, you mixed two times, Coast Guard using water gun, 




navy ship without water gun, warning----warning fire---fire flares----fire, VN ship should stop Illegal fishing&#12290;
If ship don't leave, you will get that


----------



## cirr

Shipbuilders on the Hainan Island are in the midst of building *10000* fishing vessels such as thses:











With standard displacement of 300-500 tons and built of hard steel, they are bigger and stronger than the baboons' and monkeys' patrol boats.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Eliter

VietHome said:


> Notice that all those maps drawn many centuries ago look more professional and accurate than the Cow-tongue (Nine-dash) map drawn by the Republic of China (Taiwan, not even PRC) in 1948!!!
> 
> This is the map PRC drew themselves in 1950, after they won over mainland China
> 
> 
> I think PRC needs to take over ROC first before they can claim Taiwan's Cow-tongue (Nine-dash) map theirs.



1 Can you affirm the RPC 1950 map was RPC official map?or It was printed by other foreign country(for example the United Kingdom)?
2 Other maps was error map drawed by foreign country. no other homologous document prove them.

1950 RPC official map


----------



## VietHome

xuxu1457 said:


> Funny, you mixed two times, Coast Guard using water gun,
> 
> <picture>
> 
> navy ship without water gun, warning----warning fire---fire flares----fire, VN ship should stop Illegal fishing&#12290;
> If ship don't leave, you will get that


What makes you think navy ships do not have water gun? Have you ever been in a situation where someone fire flares at you? Witness it and come back to tell me whether flares can cause fire.

There is nothing illegal about fishing in our EEZ. Go to the South China Sea thread to debate me.




cirr said:


> Shipbuilders on the Hainan Island are in the midst of building *10000* fishing vessels such as thses:
> 
> <picture>
> 
> With standard displacement of 300-500 tons and built of hard steel, they are bigger and stronger than the baboons' and monkeys' patrol boats.


Continue to talk like this then PRC cheerleaders should stop feeling touchy when people all over the world call your country "bully." Accept that title proudly. There is nothing "peaceful" about "China rises"

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## HongWu

VietHome said:


> Continue to talk like this then PRC cheerleaders should stop feeling touchy when people all over the world call your country "bully." Accept that title proudly. There is nothing "peaceful" about "China rises"


The time for peace is over. Against baboons and monkeys China will use chemical and biological attacks!


----------



## VietHome

HongWu said:


> The time for peace is over. Against baboons and monkeys China will use chemical and biological attacks!


At least this guy is being honest about it, unlike CCP's officials and CCP's apologists who sugar-coat everything the regime does. 

People that are honest get more respect than those that are not. Still, "live by the sword, die by the sword," those who likes war should be the first to enlist. Prove to PRC that you are ready to die so that China can claim more territory by fighting against the world.


----------



## INDIC

faithfulguy said:


> Their best friend in here is India. I feel sorry for the Vietnamese that fought against the Japanese, French and Americans and now their children and grandchildren are asking India, a western wannabe country, to come help.



The western powers helped the Chinese to keep their nation as one piece. If western countries hadn't come majority of Han homeland and Taiwan would have been Japanese provinces and North-Eastern China will be an independent Manchu homeland called "Manchukou". But I see Chinese hate the same people who rescued them.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## visom

I saw this article on yahoo news today as well and these were some of the comments.








armchairPrivate said:


> Vietminhs!
> 
> Go cry to uncle sam, or to your bear friend.
> 
> Or better yet, get a big hug from your pinoy buddy.



I like your new 'title' underneath your user name. It suits you well.



HongWu said:


> The time for peace is over. Against baboons and monkeys China will use chemical and biological attacks!



I'd like to see you be right in the front lines of war.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## sweetouch

hmm pay back time?


----------



## Okemos

Hellraiser007 said:


> Those guys sitting in USA have no support in the public, people do not care that much about Fox news,etc....etc....
> 
> You cannot compare it with the CCP media which is what Chinese people see and brainwashed.



I am brain washed, and you are brain damaged. Keep regurgitating your same anti-China nonsense over and over. That might cure you!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Hellraiser007

Okemos said:


> I am brain washed, and you are brain damaged. Keep regurgitating your same anti-China nonsense over and over. That might cure you!



 for that. No content in your post


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## rott

neehar said:


> as long as china sticks to its "aggressive diplomacy" its going to have problems in scs.



Aggressive diplomacy? Would you or any Indian sit by and let Pakistan occupy the whole of Kashmir?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## rott

Hellraiser007 said:


> We are not western wannabe country, every body knows Chinese obsession with White man.
> 
> India-Vietnam relations stretch for deecades, India also helped Vietnam during Vietnam war.



Mind I remind you - Fair and Lovely Cream?


----------



## IamINDIA

faithfulguy said:


> Their best friend in here is India. I feel sorry for the Vietnamese that fought against the Japanese, French and Americans and now their children and grandchildren are asking India, a western wannabe country, to come help.



dude.... do you know that not long ago i visited a rural Chinese school and first thing the girls there asked my white friend was, do you know Justin Bieber and Taylor swift? at least hear Indian children have local celebrity idols but in china it seems all the children like western stars...
thus my conclusion is that the Chinese want to be more western than Indians want to be western.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## gambit

Hellraiser007 said:


> Those guys sitting in USA have no support in the public, people do not care that much about *Fox news*,etc....etc....
> 
> You cannot compare it with the CCP media which is what Chinese people see and brainwashed.


I find the Muslims' obsession with Fox News to be as fascinating and entertaining as with the Jews. But that is for a different discussion...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zero_wing

I say let them do it it will prove that this so called peaceful (cr@p) rise does not exist sure many will die but in the end the world will finish out china as global threat and new china will rise an hoping a more better one so i say let them attack in the end its their funeral.


----------



## walle

IamINDIA said:


> dude.... do you know that not long ago i visited a rural Chinese school and first thing the girls there asked my white friend was, do you know Justin Bieber and Taylor swift? at least hear Indian children have local celebrity idols but in china it seems all the children like western stars...
> thus my conclusion is that the Chinese want to be more western than Indians want to be western.



Why does India pride itself on "speaking English",having a stereotypical western form of governance that is obviously failing. And more importantly why are your call centers trying so hard to mimic western accents.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## IamINDIA

walle said:


> Why does India pride itself on "speaking English",having a stereotypical western form of governance that is obviously failing. And more importantly why are your call centers trying so hard to mimic western accents.



don't worry we will pride ourselves in speaking in mandarin and Cantonese with an accent soon 

about our governance, it has its up sides and down sides but it isn't a total failure.


----------



## Cyberian

Have the Vietnamese learnt any lessons from this? Can we expect to see a Chinese fishing boat rammed by the Vietnamese Navy in retaliation?


----------



## EastSea

Eliter said:


> 1 Can you affirm the RPC 1950 map was RPC official map?or It was printed by other foreign country(for example the United Kingdom)?
> 2 Other maps was error map drawed by foreign country. no other homologous document prove them.
> 
> 1950 RPC official map



your posted máp or photos disappeared, don't seen nothing now. 







Ship of Vietnam Marine Police.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

*Vietnam Says Chinese Vessel Rammed Fishing Boat Off its Coast*


Vietnam said a Chinese ship rammed a fishing boat off its coast and demanded compensation, marking the first incident between the neighboring countries since China announced a unilateral fishing ban earlier this month.
The May 20 clash involved a Vietnamese vessel from the central province of Quang Ngai carrying 15 fisherman, according to a statement posted yesterday on the website of Vietnam&#8217;s Ministry of Foreign Affairs. It took place within Vietnam&#8217;s exclusive economic zone, according to the statement, which didn&#8217;t specify an exact location.
&#8220;The actions of the Chinese ships seriously infringed upon Vietnamese sovereignty, rights and jurisdiction in the Eastern Sea, damaging the property and threatening the lives of Vietnamese fishermen,&#8221; the Ministry of Foreign Affairs said, referring to the South China Sea.
Competition for fish, oil and gas in the South China Sea has increased tensions in recent years as countries become more assertive in enforcing territorial claims. Taiwan President Ma Ying-jeou this month froze the hiring of Filipino workers and urged citizens to avoid visiting the Philippines after one of its Coast Guard crews killed a 65-year-old Taiwanese fishermen.
China imposed a unilateral fishing ban in the South China Sea from May 16 to Aug. 1, an annual stipulation that has been in effect since 1999. Vietnam said on May 16 the prohibition violates its sovereignty in parts of the waters.
Depleted Fisheries
China&#8217;s increased capability to defend its maritime claims combined with depleted fishing resources in areas near its shores has led to increased tension with neighboring countries, according to Zhang Hong Zhou, a senior analyst at the S. Rajaratnam School of International Studies.
&#8220;Unilateral action against each other&#8217;s fishermen will cause bigger problems,&#8221; he said by phone. &#8220;It can easily become a major diplomatic and security conflict if you can&#8217;t handle it well.&#8221;
In March, the two countries sparred after Vietnam said a Chinese ship fired on Vietnamese fishermen near the Paracel Islands, which China took from Vietnam in a 1974 battle. China said its actions were necessary and the boat wasn&#8217;t damaged.
The Philippines on May 21 said it planned to file a diplomatic protest against China after a Chinese naval vessel escorted a fishing ship near a South China Sea shoal patrolled by Filipino soldiers.
An exclusive economic zone refers to an area of sovereignty stretching 200 nautical miles from a country&#8217;s coastal baseline, according to the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea.
To contact Bloomberg News staff for this story: Daniel Ten Kate in Bangkok at dtenkate@bloomberg.net; Jason Folkmanis in Ho Chi Minh City at folkmanis@bloomberg.net
To contact the editor responsible for this story: Rosalind Mathieson at rmathieson3@bloomberg.net


Vietnam Says Chinese Vessel Rammed Fishing Boat Off its Coast - Bloomberg

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ManilaBoy45

Ilang Mangingisdang Pilipino, Pinaputukan ng mga Tsino sa Panatag Shoal

China Opens Fire on Filipino Fishermen at Scarborough Shoal | Balitanghali | GMA News Online

Date posted: May 28, 2013 1:03pm

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## hurt

EastSea said:


> Ship of Vietnam Marine Police.



where is it? When Chinese Vessel Rammed your Fishing Boat.


----------



## visom

walle said:


> Why does India pride itself on "speaking English",having a stereotypical western form of governance that is obviously failing. And more importantly why are your call centers trying so hard to mimic western accents.



Because it is for business purposes; to communicate easier with western customer, which makes alot of sense.
Why does China go for beauty standards of western country when their own is perfectly fine?


----------



## hurt

Vietnam will get more like this


----------



## NiceGuy

SUPARCO said:


> Have the Vietnamese learnt any lessons from this? Can we expect to see a Chinese fishing boat rammed by the Vietnamese Navy in retaliation?



No,we wont,we just simply find some excuse to portray China as the next "evil empire",and we r poor victims, and idiot Chinese keep taking the bait


----------



## Zero_wing

hurt said:


> where is it? When Chinese Vessel Rammed your Fishing Boat.



Ya keep that up alienate all of your neighbors as we filipinos would sa may araw ka rin be ready


----------



## jhungary

IamINDIA said:


> dude.... do you know that not long ago i visited a rural Chinese school and first thing the girls there asked my white friend was, do you know Justin Bieber and Taylor swift? at least hear Indian children have local celebrity idols but in china it seems all the children like western stars...
> thus my conclusion is that the Chinese want to be more western than Indians want to be western.



and Justin bieber and taylor swift no less.........Why they like white trash like that??



visom said:


> Because it is for business purposes; to communicate easier with western customer, which makes alot of sense.
> Why does China go for beauty standards of western country when their own is perfectly fine?



There are a reason why there are more people learning English then there are people learning Chinese (Does not count learning them as first language) 

English is an international Language. Even China have English classes in their Middle/High School. But we don't have Chinese classes in our Middle/High School. 

Notice you even need to write in English, not Chinese, in this forum,* RIGHT HERE*.


----------



## Rechoice

hurt said:


> where is it? When Chinese Vessel Rammed your Fishing Boat.




Chinese ran away like mad dog in SCS.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## hurt

Rechoice said:


> Chinese ran away like mad dog in SCS.



Good job,China Marine Surveillance



Rechoice said:


> Chinese ran away like mad dog in SCS.




When your video is end ,it show this,Nice job,PLAN

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

Chinese sea pirates go to hell.


----------



## Rechoice

hurt said:


> Good job,China Marine Surveillance
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When your video is end ,it show this,Nice job,PLAN



Job of sea pirates, mad dog. chinese PLA aggressors go to hell.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## hurt

Rechoice said:


> Job of sea pirates, mad dog. chinese PLA aggressors go to hell.



hell is for you.PLAN and CCG will send you to there.


----------



## faithfulguy

walle said:


> Why does India pride itself on "speaking English",having a stereotypical western form of governance that is obviously failing. And more importantly why are your call centers trying so hard to mimic western accents.



Not only western accents. When they failed at the accents, they come up with an American first and LAST name. You can hear with the Indian accent said "yello, this ease Mike Jones, out can I yalf you"



jhungary said:


> and Justin bieber and taylor swift no less.........Why they like white trash like that??
> 
> 
> 
> There are a reason why there are more people learning English then there are people learning Chinese (Does not count learning them as first language)
> 
> English is an international Language. Even China have English classes in their Middle/High School. But we don't have Chinese classes in our Middle/High School.
> 
> Notice you even need to write in English, not Chinese, in this forum,* RIGHT HERE*.



Actually, our high school is starting to offer Mandarin. And many Indians are signing up for those classes.


----------



## hurt

Rechoice said:


> Chinese sea pirates go to hell.



Chinese send Vietnamese sea pirates go to hell.


----------



## jhungary

faithfulguy said:


> Not only western accents. When they failed at the accents, they come up with an American first and LAST name. You can hear with the Indian accent said "yello, this ease Mike Jones, out can I yalf you"
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, our high school is starting to offer Mandarin. And many Indians are signing up for those classes.



Offer Mandarin as an elective or core subject? Hence forcing all the student to study mandarin or let them choose?

You are forced to study English in China.


----------



## visom

hurt said:


> Vietnam will get more like this



Shut up, boat boy.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## faithfulguy

jhungary said:


> Offer Mandarin as an elective or core subject? Hence forcing all the student to study mandarin or let them choose?
> 
> You are forced to study English in China.



Foreign languages are all electives. English is the international language so its imperative that all nations learn English.


----------



## jhungary

faithfulguy said:


> Foreign languages are all electives. English is the international language so its imperative that all nations learn English.



hence my point lol.


----------



## faithfulguy

jhungary said:


> hence my point lol.



since English is the international language, learning English is a must. However, I was responding to your #37. Its actually a great idea for Americans to learn another language and Mandarin will become more and more popular in American schools as it become more useful.


----------



## BoXilai

armchairPrivate said:


> Vietminhs!
> 
> Go cry to uncle sam, or to your bear friend.
> 
> Or better yet, get a big hug from your pinoy buddy.



Did you post your comment from a mental institution?

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Rechoice

hurt said:


> Chinese send Vietnamese sea pirates go to hell.



hell is for dirty chinese aggressors, sea pirates.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## hurt

Rechoice said:


> hell is for dirty chinese aggressors, sea pirates.




hell is for dirty &#65292;chinese will send Vietnamese aggressors and Vietnamese sea pirates to there.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

hurt said:


> hell is for dirty &#65292;chinese will send Vietnamese aggressors and Vietnamese sea pirates to there.


Ch

Idiot chinese make noise on sea, so let your leaders have been taken away from China 230 bill US$, to escape from hell they go to USA.
China is hell for idiot people, are cheated by " China Dram", but there is hell.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Minjitta

hurt said:


> where is it? When Chinese Vessel Rammed your Fishing Boat.



hehehe unlike China, Vietnam Marine Police doesn't use coward tactics on small Chinese fishermen.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Minjitta

India market her Bramos to Malaysia, Philipines, and Vietnam

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## hurt

Minjitta said:


> hehehe unlike China, Vietnam Marine Police doesn't use coward tactics on small Chinese fishermen.



Vietnam Marine Police afraid to publicize it for you.They are realy sea pirates.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## hurt

Rechoice said:


> Ch
> 
> Idiot chinese make noise on sea, so let your leaders have been taken away from China 230 bill US$, to escape from hell they go to USA.
> China is hell for idiot people, are cheated by " China Dram", but there is hell.



noise? Not only noise.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Stop harassing and stay away from our research vessels!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

China marine police now Coast guard has ermerged as a full-time harassment organisation.


----------



## Viet

VN needs more help from Japan. They can print the money and give it to us. 


*Japanese Vice Admiral Kiyoshi Saishoji visits Vietnamese naval officers (Photo: Tuoi Tre) February 27. 2013*

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Hellraiser007

rott said:


> Mind I remind you - Fair and Lovely Cream?



Post reported for racist comment, But by the way I am fair and good looking.


----------



## Malaya

*US Aircraft Carrier "menaces" China's ships in the south China sea*
Monday, May 27, 2013

(Infonet.vn) As China and Philippines tensions in the disputed South China Sea at the Second Thomas Reef, the U.S. aircraft carrier USS Nimitz conducted military drills in the area, making China nervous. 





*
Black Knights 154 taking off from The USS Nimitz*

On 21 to 23 May 2013, USS Nimitz had rehearsal time for aircraft taking-off and landing, military drills and supplies in the South China Sea close to the Philippines, the purpose of this exercise was to protect maritime security, support islands defending.

Chinese media said that the U.S. has the "menace" of Chinese ships operating in waters near the Spratly Islands.






*Preparing for the exercises*

On May 15, USS Nimitz (CVN 68) of the U.S. Navy 7th Fleet has coordinated joint exercises with fleets of Korea and Japan in the East China Sea. After the completion of this exercise, the journey of the USS Nimitz quite mysterious.






*F/A-18 regularly taking off*






On May 22, on the website of the U.S. Navy published a picture showing U.S. Ambassador in Singapore David Adelman presented on USS Nimitz with the notes "East Sea, the aircraft carrier". That means after finishing exercises with South Korea and Japan, U.S. Nimitz was sent to the South China Sea.






*MH-60S Sea Hawk landing on the USS Nimitz*

In addition, U.S. Navy photos showed that E-2C aircraft took off from the aircraft carrier Nimitz, conducted performance rehearsal. Shortly thereafter, the U.S. Navy website posted two pictures that F/A-18 fighter jets taking off from the aircraft carrier, and also note that the USS Nimitz in the South China Sea.






*Practice with M240 gun*

Chinese media analysis that U.S. military is rarely revealed clearly position of USS Nimitz. "Global Times" quoted a Chinese source said: "Americans generally do not want to reveal to others the U.S. military ships' position, particularly in the South China Sea. Moreover, the Philippines and Taiwan are stressed about the Taiwanese fishermen shot dead, China and the Philippines tense at the Second Thomas Reef, then this action can be understood as the U.S. threatened the Chinese ship in the disputed area with the Philippines ".






*The aircraft carrier USS Nimitz (CVN 68) and the Military Sealift Command fast combat support ship USNS Rainier (T-AOE 7) transit alongside each other to conduct a replenishment-at-sea.*

"Global Times" newspaper analysis, the USS Nimitz exercises in the South China Sea this time shows that Americans want to "enhance naval cooperation with Southeast Asian countries, the determination to protect the interests of the allies ". On the other hand, this also has a direct relationship to the outcome of the current in the South China Sea.






*Sailors assigned to Helicopter Maritime Strike Squadron (HSM) 75 perform helicopter maintenance on the flight deck of the aircraft carrier USS Nimitz (CVN 68).*

The newspaper quoted an analyst saying, "This carrier has been operating in the area known as the West Philippine Sea, as in this area, reconnaissance aircraft E-2C regularly take off, one of the practice, on the other hand is spying activities of Chinese and Taiwanese vessels in these waters. According to available information, the U.S. ship shall protect shipping vessels and assist in the air and on the sea for defending the islands, attacking against ships, this is clearly expressed intent of the US to protect the Phiippines. " 

Tàu sân bay M

ASITIMES

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Minjitta

hurt said:


> Vietnam Marine Police afraid to publicize it for you.They are realy sea pirates.



Then why don't you show me Vietnam Marine Police pirating the seas.
btw really not realy


----------



## Soryu

SUPARCO said:


> Have the Vietnamese learnt any lessons from this? Can we expect to see a Chinese fishing boat rammed by the Vietnamese Navy in retaliation?



Dude, you should learn more to know about what's happen in there or shut your mouth.
Don't open it just because you see china like a close friend. I note you that we were very close friend to china like brothers at before you come and kiss their hand


----------



## hurt

Malaya said:


> *US Aircraft Carrier "menaces" China's ships in the south China sea*
> Monday, May 27, 2013
> 
> (Infonet.vn) As China and Philippines tensions in the disputed South China Sea at the Second Thomas Reef, the U.S. aircraft carrier USS Nimitz conducted military drills in the area, making China nervous.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Black Knights 154 taking off from The USS Nimitz*
> 
> On 21 to 23 May 2013, USS Nimitz had rehearsal time for aircraft taking-off and landing, military drills and supplies in the South China Sea close to the Philippines, the purpose of this exercise was to protect maritime security, support islands defending.
> 
> Chinese media said that the U.S. has the "menace" of Chinese ships operating in waters near the Spratly Islands.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Preparing for the exercises*
> 
> On May 15, USS Nimitz (CVN 68) of the U.S. Navy 7th Fleet has coordinated joint exercises with fleets of Korea and Japan in the East China Sea. After the completion of this exercise, the journey of the USS Nimitz quite mysterious.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *F/A-18 regularly taking off*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On May 22, on the website of the U.S. Navy published a picture showing U.S. Ambassador in Singapore David Adelman presented on USS Nimitz with the notes "East Sea, the aircraft carrier". That means after finishing exercises with South Korea and Japan, U.S. Nimitz was sent to the South China Sea.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *MH-60S Sea Hawk landing on the USS Nimitz*
> 
> In addition, U.S. Navy photos showed that E-2C aircraft took off from the aircraft carrier Nimitz, conducted performance rehearsal. Shortly thereafter, the U.S. Navy website posted two pictures that F/A-18 fighter jets taking off from the aircraft carrier, and also note that the USS Nimitz in the South China Sea.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Practice with M240 gun*
> 
> Chinese media analysis that U.S. military is rarely revealed clearly position of USS Nimitz. "Global Times" quoted a Chinese source said: "Americans generally do not want to reveal to others the U.S. military ships' position, particularly in the South China Sea. Moreover, the Philippines and Taiwan are stressed about the Taiwanese fishermen shot dead, China and the Philippines tense at the Second Thomas Reef, then this action can be understood as the U.S. threatened the Chinese ship in the disputed area with the Philippines ".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *The aircraft carrier USS Nimitz (CVN 68) and the Military Sealift Command fast combat support ship USNS Rainier (T-AOE 7) transit alongside each other to conduct a replenishment-at-sea.*
> 
> "Global Times" newspaper analysis, the USS Nimitz exercises in the South China Sea this time shows that Americans want to "enhance naval cooperation with Southeast Asian countries, the determination to protect the interests of the allies ". On the other hand, this also has a direct relationship to the outcome of the current in the South China Sea.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Sailors assigned to Helicopter Maritime Strike Squadron (HSM) 75 perform helicopter maintenance on the flight deck of the aircraft carrier USS Nimitz (CVN 68).*
> 
> The newspaper quoted an analyst saying, "This carrier has been operating in the area known as the West Philippine Sea, as in this area, reconnaissance aircraft E-2C regularly take off, one of the practice, on the other hand is spying activities of Chinese and Taiwanese vessels in these waters. According to available information, the U.S. ship shall protect shipping vessels and assist in the air and on the sea for defending the islands, attacking against ships, this is clearly expressed intent of the US to protect the Phiippines. "
> 
> Tàu sân bay M
> 
> ASITIMES

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

hurt said:


>



China think she is strong . Saddam had the same idea.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## romia

The world dominate language depend upon the influence or power of a culture or a nation.
No doubt ,the US is No1 &#65292;nowadays.but not forever.
Why the Mandrine become more and more popular in many countries,and even in US.
That's the evidence as the power growth of China

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## jhungary

romia said:


> The world dominate language depend upon the influence or power of a culture or a nation.
> No doubt ,the US is No1 &#65292;nowadays.but not forever.
> Why the Mandrine become more and more popular in many countries,and even in US.
> That's the evidence as the power growth of China



The reason why there are many people speak mandarin is simply because there are more Chinese than American, European and Australian combine......Chinese high School are forced to learn English while US high School have Chinese as elective, that's saying something there.


----------



## ManilaBoy45

South China Sea Tension Mounts Near Filipino Shipwreck


2nd Thomas Shoal Standoff Continues

By Manuel Mogato

MANILA (Reuters) - A wrecked navy transport ship perched on a remote coral reef could be the next flashpoint in the South China Sea, where China and five other claimants bitterly dispute territory.

The Philippines is accusing China of encroachment after three Chinese ships, including a naval frigate, converged just 5 nautical miles from an old transport ship that Manila ran aground on a reef in 1999 to mark its territory.Philippine officials say they fear the Chinese ships will block supplies to about a dozen Filipino marines stationed in abject conditions on the rusting ship, raising tensions over one of Asia's biggest security issues.

The area, known as Second Thomas Shoal, is a strategic gateway to Reed Bank, believed to be rich in oil and natural gas. In 2010, Manila awarded an Anglo-Filipino consortium a license to explore for gas on Reed Bank but drilling stalled last year due to the presence of Chinese ships.Manila says Reed Bank, about 80 nautical miles west of Palawan island at the southwestern end of the Philippine archipelago, is within the country's 200-nautical mile exclusive economic zone.






Philippine Military Academy (PMA) cadets move ashore from a navy ship during a joint field training exercise at the Marines' training centre in Ternate, Cavite city, south of Manila May 29, 2013. REUTERS/Romeo Ranoco

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## soaringeagle

Actually, English is the global language because most text on modern knowledge is written in English, sure they can be translated, but to understand it best AND get innovations from it nothing beats having the understanding of the original language.



romia said:


> The world dominate language depend upon the influence or power of a culture or a nation.
> No doubt ,the US is No1 &#65292;nowadays.but not forever.
> Why the Mandrine become more and more popular in many countries,and even in US.
> That's the evidence as the power growth of China


----------



## Minjitta

EastSea said:


> China think she is strong . Saddam had the same idea.



China are strong no doubt it here, but her self illusion as a country center of earth is wrong, and China wanted to dominate the world will not come to reality. Even false flagger like China rise in peace will not fool any nations. No country can dominate earth alone. Look at USA she needed other Western nations and other Eastern Nations to stand by her side to get the power and position she is in as today.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## 帅的一匹

Stop being a crying baby......



jhungary said:


> The reason why there are many people speak mandarin is simply because there are more Chinese than American, European and Australian combine......Chinese high School are forced to learn English while US high School have Chinese as elective, that's saying something there.



If we don't learn english, then clowns can denigrate China without any debunk.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Pinoy

Filipinos calls China a 'greedy-thief nation&#8217;












Mischief Reef used to be controlled by PH before 1995

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## HongWu

We are blocking their supplies and soon we will wipe them out with PGM strikes.


----------



## HongWu

LOL at the Viets crying and whining but nobody cares about them.

Now we can clean them out from SCS


----------



## EastSea

HongWu said:


> LOL at the Viets crying and whining but nobody cares about them.
> 
> Now we can clean them out from SCS



take to nuke for quick, kid.


----------



## EastSea

hurt said:


> noise? Not only noise.



and open big mouth loudly bully people in area.



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Stop harassing and stay away from our research vessels!



he he, no research nothing, just steal fishes in EZZ of other countries !


----------



## Zero_wing

Sure whatever


----------



## HongWu

Zero_wing said:


> Sure whatever


That's what you thought before we grabbed Scarborough Shoal from you like candy from a baby!


----------



## Eliter

1767 CHINA MAP

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Eliter

*Nansha Qundao, Nansha Islands, Spratly Islands(&#20013;&#22269;&#21335;&#27801;&#32676;&#23707

Dunqian Shazhou, Sandy Cay(&#25958;&#35878;&#27801;&#27954*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zero_wing

HongWu said:


> That's what you thought before we grabbed Scarborough Shoal from you like candy from a baby!



Hahahahahaha


----------



## EastSea

Eliter said:


> 1767 CHINA MAP



Good photoshop works with painting colors, fake products made in China in 21th century.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

Eliter said:


> 1767 CHINA MAP


Look like a nice map, can you tell me who's draw this map, and in which book?

Where're Vietnam, Korea, Japan, Hainan in this map?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## p3avi8tor69

HongWu said:


> That's what you thought before we grabbed Scarborough Shoal from you like candy from a baby!



The Ayungin shoals are next. Even the Pinoy foreign minister had to anxiously explain to the Chinese Ambassador that incoming ships are meant to supply some stranded Pinoy soldiers, no doubt doing his best not to anger the Chinese.

If Pinoys can't protect what they claim as their own, might as well give it up and end this nonsense posturing.


----------



## Malaya

There was no "last soldier standing" or Philippine military presence in Mischief Reef which were occupied by China.

Ayungin Reef is part of the Kalayaan Islands, a municipality of Palawan with Pag-asa Island as capital, and composed of 6 islets, 2 cays (parts of larger reefs/shoals) and 2 reefs/shoals. These areas are rich fishing grounds and part of our sovereignty.

We shouldn't give in to the endless bullying of the greedy China and MUST defend our western territories until the sea claims the last of our brave sailors. The acquisition of modern naval hardwares must be fast-tracked including the promised Japanese coast guard.




Pinoy said:


> Filipinos calls China a 'greedy-thief nation&#8217;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mischief Reef used to be controlled by PH before 1995


----------



## Malaya

EastSea said:


> Good photoshop works with painting colors, fake products made in China in 21th century.


I think Chinese are tired of making fake items,now they are making fake stories and even making fake historical accounts and maps.


----------



## Eliter

1799&#24180;&#33521;&#22269;&#12298;&#20122;&#27954;&#22320;&#22270;&#12299;&#35777;&#26126;
1799 Great Britain's &#12298;Map of Aisa&#12299;can prove&#65306;

15-18&#19990;&#32426;&#35199;&#26041;&#21476;&#22320;&#22270;&#19978;&#30340;"Paracel"&#19981;&#26159;&#29616;&#22312;&#30340;&#35199;&#27801;&#32676;&#23707;
15&#65293;18 centuries Occident map's "Paracels" not modern map's Paracel Islands.

&#36234;&#21335;&#25152;&#35859;&#40644;&#27801;&#21644;&#38271;&#27801;&#19981;&#26159;&#20013;&#22269;&#30340;&#35199;&#27801;&#32676;&#23707;&#21644;&#21335;&#27801;&#32676;&#23707;
1834 Vietnamese map's &#40644;&#27801;&#65288;Hoàng Sa&#65289;&#12289;&#38263;&#27801;&#65288;Tr&#432;&#7901;ng Sa&#65289;not Chinese Paracel Islands and Spratly Islands.

&#24863;&#35874;&#26366;&#33399;&#33674;

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cirr

CMS 2169&#65292;seen on the right in the picture&#65292;launched today&#65306;






It is the 8th vessel of the same class from HPS&#12290;

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cirr

More and bigger vessels on their way&#65306;











1.5k CMS vessel under construction at WCS

Tiny HPS busy with various sorts of law enforcement ships&#65306;











Churning out ships like sausages

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

The berth cycle for CMS 2169 is 21 days&#12290;

And this is in peace time and with one shipyard only&#12290;

During time of war&#65292;the Chinese Machine is able to turn out ships at a rate that will&#65292;well&#65292;&#12290;&#12290;&#12290;&#12290;

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

Eliter said:


> 1799&#24180;&#33521;&#22269;&#12298;&#20122;&#27954;&#22320;&#22270;&#12299;&#35777;&#26126;
> 1799 Great Britain's &#12298;Map of Aisa&#12299;can prove&#65306;
> 
> 15-18&#19990;&#32426;&#35199;&#26041;&#21476;&#22320;&#22270;&#19978;&#30340;"Paracel"&#19981;&#26159;&#29616;&#22312;&#30340;&#35199;&#27801;&#32676;&#23707;
> 15&#65293;18 centuries Occident map's "Paracels" not modern map's Paracel Islands.
> 
> &#36234;&#21335;&#25152;&#35859;&#40644;&#27801;&#21644;&#38271;&#27801;&#19981;&#26159;&#20013;&#22269;&#30340;&#35199;&#27801;&#32676;&#23707;&#21644;&#21335;&#27801;&#32676;&#23707;
> 1834 Vietnamese map's &#40644;&#27801;&#65288;Hoàng Sa&#65289;&#12289;&#38263;&#27801;&#65288;Tr&#432;&#7901;ng Sa&#65289;not Chinese Paracel Islands and Spratly Islands.
> 
> &#24863;&#35874;&#26366;&#33399;&#33674;



This map and map of United Great Nam Emperor 1934 is different map. Don't make fake explanation on it, Chinese liar !

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

CCG here we come&#65306;











By 2015&#65292; the CCG will become a paramilitary force with tens of maritime patrol aircrafts and over 1000 ships of various sizes&#65292;including 300 with displacements ranging from 1000 to 12000 tons&#12290;

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

Map by Visscher in 1680

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

Chuandong Shipbuilding & Heavy Engineering Co. in Sichuan province also joins the construction boom&#65306;






3 ships&#65292;with 1st delivery 10 months after the commencement of building on 28.05.2013&#65292;and the 2nd and 3rd one and two months after the 1st&#65292;respectively&#12290;

All 3 ships will be delivered to CFS&#65288;now part of CCG&#65289; before 28.05.2014.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

Guangzhou Shipbuilding International starts building of *five* 3000-tonne CFS&#65288;now CCG&#65289;on 22.05.2013&#65306;






Note those five 9-figured numbers&#12290;






Steel cutting ceremony&#12290;

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

Vietnam marine police ships.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

CWS has also won an order for 5 3000-tonne CCG ships&#65292;in addition to its previous orders for 1000-tonne and 1500-tonne ships&#12290;

As a matter of fact&#65292;we will see CWS&#8216;s 3k ship before GSI's&#65292;for the former started half year earlier than the latter&#12290;

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Soryu

Eliter said:


> 1799&#24180;&#33521;&#22269;&#12298;&#20122;&#27954;&#22320;&#22270;&#12299;&#35777;&#26126;
> 1799 Great Britain's &#12298;Map of Aisa&#12299;can prove&#65306;
> 
> 15-18&#19990;&#32426;&#35199;&#26041;&#21476;&#22320;&#22270;&#19978;&#30340;"Paracel"&#19981;&#26159;&#29616;&#22312;&#30340;&#35199;&#27801;&#32676;&#23707;
> 15&#65293;18 centuries Occident map's "Paracels" not modern map's Paracel Islands.
> 
> &#36234;&#21335;&#25152;&#35859;&#40644;&#27801;&#21644;&#38271;&#27801;&#19981;&#26159;&#20013;&#22269;&#30340;&#35199;&#27801;&#32676;&#23707;&#21644;&#21335;&#27801;&#32676;&#23707;
> 1834 Vietnamese map's &#40644;&#27801;&#65288;Hoàng Sa&#65289;&#12289;&#38263;&#27801;&#65288;Tr&#432;&#7901;ng Sa&#65289;not Chinese Paracel Islands and Spratly Islands.
> 
> &#24863;&#35874;&#26366;&#33399;&#33674;


Again, you show off a new map, But I feel very hard to believe your explain, because *"paracel Islands" was name given by Western people for "group of Islands in SCS, offshore from Vietnam"* and they were also write it was saw under our control, that was written in many document.

_ So, If this "Paracel" was not "modern Paracel" that you said, What's it!?
_ Can you show me the full map in high resolution like "small-part map"!?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Malaya

*Defense chief: Philippines not violating DOC, China is*
By Alexis Romero (philstar.com) May 30, 2013 

MANILA, Philippines - Defense Secretary Voltaire Gazmin on Thursday maintained that the Philippines has been complying with the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea (DOC) and that it was China who has been violating it.

&#8220;Well, we&#8217;ve been adhering to the [declaration]. We&#8217;ve been following the DOC. We did not violate anything,&#8221; Gazmin told reporters in an interview.

When asked if China is adhering to the declaration, the defense chief said, "No, they don&#8217;t. That&#8217;s why we have filed successive protests.&#8221;

Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong Lei has been quoted by state-run news agency Xinhua as saying that relevant countries should &#8220;fully and earnestly implement&#8221; the DOC.

He also called on the countries to &#8220;refrain from actions that could amplify or complicate the issue, and avoid any action that could undermine peace and stability in the region.&#8221;

Despite China&#8217;s violations of the DOC, the Philippines will continue to strive to deescalate tensions in the West Philippine Sea.

&#8220;We have to avoid escalating the problem since we have already filed cases [(before the international tribunal] to avoid jeopardizing legal proceedings,&#8221; Gazmin said.

The Philippines has been protesting the aggressive actions of China in the West Philippine Sea, including the deployment of Sino ships in areas within its exclusive economic zone.

The latest of these actions is the sending of three Chiense vessels in the Ayungin Shoal off Palawan early this month.

Ayungin Shoal, which China calls Ren'ai Jiao, is 105.77 nautical miles from Palawan and forms part of the Philippines&#8217; 200 nautical mile exclusive economic zone.

It is part of the Kalayaan Island Group off Palawan and is one of the areas occupied by the Philippines in the West Philippine Sea.

On May 10, the Philippines filed a protest against China for its illegal deployment of vessels around the shoal.

The Philippines scored the provocative presence of two Chinese maritime surveillance vessel and one warship around the area in violation of the international law.

China, however, continues to insist that it has &#8220;indisputable sovereignty&#8221; over the Ayungin Shoal therefore its vessels can conduct patrols there.

China claims virtually the entire West Philippine Sea while the Philippines, Malaysia, Vietnam, Brunei and Taiwan have overlapping claims in the area.

Defense chief: Philippines not violating DOC, China is | Headlines, News, The Philippine Star | philstar.com

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Malaya

*China fears PH may build structures in Ayungin Shoal*






*Defense Secretary Voltaire Gazmin and Chinese Ambassador talking about the Ayungin Shoal issue in an informal talk in Camp Aguinaldo.*

By Alexis Romero, The Philippine Star
05/30/2013 | 05/30/2013 

MANILA, Philippines - China has expressed concern that the Philippines might build structures in Ayungin Shoal, an area well within Manila&#8217;s exclusive economic zone.

China, which has set up structures in areas it is claiming in the West Philippine Sea, raised the issue during an informal talk between Chinese Ambassador Ma Keqing and Defense Secretary Voltaire Gazmin at Camp Aguinaldo, Quezon City yesterday.

Gazmin assured the ambassador that the government is sending ships to the shoal to deliver supplies to soldiers monitoring the area.

&#8220;They were concerned that the Philippines is coming up with structures, additional structures in the Ayungin Shoal,&#8221; the defense chief told reporters.

&#8220;I told her that the ship that is moving toward Ayungin Shoal is only for provisions of food and water for soldiers who are there,&#8221; he added.

In an apparent effort to defuse tensions, the Philippines assured China that it has no plans to build infrastructure on Ayungin Shoal.

&#8220;The ships are also for the rotation of troops. We cannot place people there permanently. They&#8217;ll go insane,&#8221; Gazmin said.

Chinese envoy initiated the talk

Ma evaded questions about West Philippine Sea issues, saying that her talk with Gazmin was mainly about friendly relations between China and the Philippines.

&#8220;We also talked about the balanced relations. I think China is ready to develop cooperation and very good exchanges between the two sides because this year is the year of friendly exchanges between our two countries,&#8221; she said.

When asked whether they talked about the Philippines&#8217; diplomatic protest against China, Ma said: &#8220;Sorry, I really have to go. See you later.&#8221;

Ma was the one who initiated the informal talk with Gazmin, which lasted about 10 minutes. She sought an audience with Gazmin on the sidelines of the celebration of the Peacekeepers Day at Camp Aguinaldo.

Gazmin ushered her to a corner of the Armed Forces Commissioned Officers Club.

&#8220;I&#8217;d like to talk to the secretary. I have a message for him,&#8221; Ma was quoted by a source as saying.

Nobody heard the conversation between Gazmin and Ma, who both appeared serious. They, however, were seen smiling at each other as they parted.

Ayungin Shoal is 105.77 nautical miles from Palawan and is well within the Philippines&#8217; 200-nautical mile exclusive economic zone.

It is part of the Kalayaan Island Group off Palawan and one of the areas occupied by the Philippines in the West Philippine Sea.

On May 10, the Philippines filed a protest against China for its illegal deployment of vessels around Ayungin Shoal.

The protest decried the provocative presence of two Chinese maritime surveillance vessels and one warship in the area, which violated international law.

China claims virtually the entire South China Sea while the Philippines, Malaysia, Vietnam, Brunei and Taiwan have overlapping claims in the area.

*Chinese strategy*

China is now employing tactics lifted from &#8220;Go,&#8221; an ancient Chinese board game, to restrict and isolate all Filipino troops deployed in the disputed Spratlys.

In the board game, two players, using white and black pieces or &#8220;stones,&#8221; alternately move their respective pieces until their opponent is left with no more room to maneuver as his position has been completely encircled.

&#8220;What is happening there now is akin to the Philippines and China employing their respective strategies. A simple analogy to this is that China is playing the game Go to surround the opponent&#8217;s pieces until we are deprived of any moves out there,&#8221; said a former naval officer who requested anonymity.

Unfortunately, he said while China is employing an ancient strategy to have total domination over South China Sea, the Philippines continues to pursue a different tack.

&#8220;Unfortunately for us, we look at it as either a game of chess or checkers. Our strategy is not appropriate to check the Chinese strategy,&#8221; he said.

He warned that if China continues its game, it may eventually isolate Filipino troops to the point that the military may find it difficult to conduct troop rotation and resupply operations in the islands occupied by Filipino forces in the area.

Navy chief Vice Admiral Jose Luis Alano said yesterday that despite the presence of these Chinese vessels, the Philippine Navy is not backing down from its mandate as force provider in the region.

Alano also assured the troops deployed in Ayungin Shoal on board the Navy&#8217;s logistic ship BRP Sierra Madre &#8211; which ran aground in the area years ago &#8211; that they will continue to receive their supplies and other needs.

&#8220;We have agreed among ourselves (Spratlys claimant countries) to have a status quo that reprovisioning for all troops who have long been deployed in the region will not be hampered. We need to have the reprovisioning to be able to sustain our people that are deployed in the West Philippine Sea,&#8221; Alano said.

Alano also said the mere presence of the Navy ship in Ayungin further bolstered the country&#8217;s territorial claim over the area, not to mention that the place is very close to Palawan and well within the Philippines&#8217; exclusive economic zone. &#8211; With Jaime Laude, Michelle Zoleta

China fears PH may build structures in Ayungin Shoal | ABS-CBN News


China cannot be trusted. They act like the peacemakers in front of cameras but behind they are traitors and selfish land grabber.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Malaya

*VP on Ayungin: If necessary, fight until the last man*






ABS-CBNnews.com
05/30/2013 

MANILA - Vice-President Jejomar Binay on Thursday said the Philippines will "fight until the last man" if necessary against the intrusion of Chinese ships in Ayungin shoal off Palawan.

He, however, conceded that the Philippines has already reacted by filing a diplomatic protest before Beijing, which is a more peaceful solution to the issue.

"I think we had already reacted. If it is necessary we have to fight until the last man. Pero, we are preempting kasi remember we had further case for arbitration. That is a peaceful [solution]," he told reporters.

Malacañang earlier said the Philippines is not sending a vessel to counter the presence of Chinese ships in Ayungin shoal off Palawan.

Deputy presidential spokesperson Abigail Valte said the Philippines has chosen to take the peaceful path in addressing the issue.

The Chinese intrusion is already the subject of a diplomatic protest filed by the Philippines. Less than 10 personnel of the Philippine Marines are reportedly guarding the shoal.

"As mentioned to me by the President, we have deliberately chosen not to respond to provocative statements or actions given that we have already chosen the path of peaceful resolution and exhausting diplomatic means to do so," Valte said.

The Palace said that taking the diplomatic approach in resolving the issue is "not inconsistent" with the Philippines' desire to establish its "minimum credible defense posture."

The President recently announced the plan to acquire additional military assets to boost the Navy's capability to patrol the country's borders.[/img]

http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/nation/05/30/13/vp-ayungin-if-necessary-fight-until-last-man

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zero_wing

Let fortify our territories

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Pinoy

Malaya said:


> *China fears PH may build structures in Ayungin Shoal*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Defense Secretary Voltaire Gazmin and Chinese Ambassador talking about the Ayungin Shoal issue in an informal talk in Camp Aguinaldo.*
> 
> By Alexis Romero, The Philippine Star
> 05/30/2013 | 05/30/2013
> 
> MANILA, Philippines - China has expressed concern that the Philippines might build structures in Ayungin Shoal, an area well within Manilas exclusive economic zone.
> 
> China, which has set up structures in areas it is claiming in the West Philippine Sea, raised the issue during an informal talk between Chinese Ambassador Ma Keqing and Defense Secretary Voltaire Gazmin at Camp Aguinaldo, Quezon City yesterday.
> 
> Gazmin assured the ambassador that the government is sending ships to the shoal to deliver supplies to soldiers monitoring the area.
> 
> They were concerned that the Philippines is coming up with structures, additional structures in the Ayungin Shoal, the defense chief told reporters.
> 
> I told her that the ship that is moving toward Ayungin Shoal is only for provisions of food and water for soldiers who are there, he added.
> 
> In an apparent effort to defuse tensions, the Philippines assured China that it has no plans to build infrastructure on Ayungin Shoal.
> 
> The ships are also for the rotation of troops. We cannot place people there permanently. Theyll go insane, Gazmin said.
> 
> Chinese envoy initiated the talk
> 
> Ma evaded questions about West Philippine Sea issues, saying that her talk with Gazmin was mainly about friendly relations between China and the Philippines.
> 
> We also talked about the balanced relations. I think China is ready to develop cooperation and very good exchanges between the two sides because this year is the year of friendly exchanges between our two countries, she said.
> 
> When asked whether they talked about the Philippines diplomatic protest against China, Ma said: Sorry, I really have to go. See you later.
> 
> Ma was the one who initiated the informal talk with Gazmin, which lasted about 10 minutes. She sought an audience with Gazmin on the sidelines of the celebration of the Peacekeepers Day at Camp Aguinaldo.
> 
> Gazmin ushered her to a corner of the Armed Forces Commissioned Officers Club.
> 
> Id like to talk to the secretary. I have a message for him, Ma was quoted by a source as saying.
> 
> Nobody heard the conversation between Gazmin and Ma, who both appeared serious. They, however, were seen smiling at each other as they parted.
> 
> Ayungin Shoal is 105.77 nautical miles from Palawan and is well within the Philippines 200-nautical mile exclusive economic zone.
> 
> It is part of the Kalayaan Island Group off Palawan and one of the areas occupied by the Philippines in the West Philippine Sea.
> 
> On May 10, the Philippines filed a protest against China for its illegal deployment of vessels around Ayungin Shoal.
> 
> The protest decried the provocative presence of two Chinese maritime surveillance vessels and one warship in the area, which violated international law.
> 
> China claims virtually the entire South China Sea while the Philippines, Malaysia, Vietnam, Brunei and Taiwan have overlapping claims in the area.
> 
> *Chinese strategy*
> 
> China is now employing tactics lifted from Go, an ancient Chinese board game, to restrict and isolate all Filipino troops deployed in the disputed Spratlys.
> 
> In the board game, two players, using white and black pieces or stones, alternately move their respective pieces until their opponent is left with no more room to maneuver as his position has been completely encircled.
> 
> What is happening there now is akin to the Philippines and China employing their respective strategies. A simple analogy to this is that China is playing the game Go to surround the opponents pieces until we are deprived of any moves out there, said a former naval officer who requested anonymity.
> 
> Unfortunately, he said while China is employing an ancient strategy to have total domination over South China Sea, the Philippines continues to pursue a different tack.
> 
> Unfortunately for us, we look at it as either a game of chess or checkers. Our strategy is not appropriate to check the Chinese strategy, he said.
> 
> He warned that if China continues its game, it may eventually isolate Filipino troops to the point that the military may find it difficult to conduct troop rotation and resupply operations in the islands occupied by Filipino forces in the area.
> 
> Navy chief Vice Admiral Jose Luis Alano said yesterday that despite the presence of these Chinese vessels, the Philippine Navy is not backing down from its mandate as force provider in the region.
> 
> Alano also assured the troops deployed in Ayungin Shoal on board the Navys logistic ship BRP Sierra Madre  which ran aground in the area years ago  that they will continue to receive their supplies and other needs.
> 
> We have agreed among ourselves (Spratlys claimant countries) to have a status quo that reprovisioning for all troops who have long been deployed in the region will not be hampered. We need to have the reprovisioning to be able to sustain our people that are deployed in the West Philippine Sea, Alano said.
> 
> Alano also said the mere presence of the Navy ship in Ayungin further bolstered the countrys territorial claim over the area, not to mention that the place is very close to Palawan and well within the Philippines exclusive economic zone.  With Jaime Laude, Michelle Zoleta
> 
> China fears PH may build structures in Ayungin Shoal | ABS-CBN News
> 
> 
> China cannot be trusted. They act like the peacemakers in front of cameras but behind they are traitors and selfish land grabber.


It is only right that our country station more assets in the area as you know China will say something totally opposite of what they are doing. They will bully their way in these reefs and next thing you knew they will say another fishing shelter.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Eliter

1818&#24180;&#27861;&#22269;&#12298;&#19990;&#30028;&#22320;&#22270;&#38598;&#12299;&#35777;&#26126;
1818 France &#12298;Grand Atlas Universel&#12299;can prove&#65306;

15-18&#19990;&#32426;&#35199;&#26041;&#21476;&#22320;&#22270;&#19978;&#30340;"Paracel"&#19981;&#26159;&#29616;&#22312;&#30340;&#35199;&#27801;&#32676;&#23707;
15&#65293;18 centuries Occident map's "Paracels" not modern map's Paracel Islands.

&#36234;&#21335;1834&#24180;&#22320;&#22270;&#19978;&#40644;&#27801;&#21644;&#38271;&#27801;&#19981;&#26159;&#20013;&#22269;&#30340;&#35199;&#27801;&#32676;&#23707;&#21644;&#21335;&#27801;&#32676;&#23707;
1834 Vietnamese map's &#40644;&#27801;&#65288;Hoàng Sa&#65289;&#12289;&#38263;&#27801;&#65288;Truong Sa&#65289;not Chinese Paracel Islands and Spratly Islands.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Soryu

Eliter said:


> 1818&#24180;&#27861;&#22269;&#12298;&#19990;&#30028;&#22320;&#22270;&#38598;&#12299;&#35777;&#26126;
> 1818 France &#12298;Grand Atlas Universel&#12299;can prove&#65306;
> 
> 15-18&#19990;&#32426;&#35199;&#26041;&#21476;&#22320;&#22270;&#19978;&#30340;"Paracel"&#19981;&#26159;&#29616;&#22312;&#30340;&#35199;&#27801;&#32676;&#23707;
> 15&#65293;18 centuries Occident map's "Paracels" not modern map's Paracel Islands.
> 
> &#36234;&#21335;1834&#24180;&#22320;&#22270;&#19978;&#40644;&#27801;&#21644;&#38271;&#27801;&#19981;&#26159;&#20013;&#22269;&#30340;&#35199;&#27801;&#32676;&#23707;&#21644;&#21335;&#27801;&#32676;&#23707;
> 1834 Vietnamese map's &#40644;&#27801;&#65288;Hoàng Sa&#65289;&#12289;&#38263;&#27801;&#65288;Truong Sa&#65289;not Chinese Paracel Islands and Spratly Islands.


_ Again, I was asking you: If old "Paracel" was not "modern Paracel", So what's it? Where's it gone?
_ Why's no name group Islands become "modern Paracel"!? What's proof to proven that Islands are your "Paracel" that you said!?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## EastSea

Map of Vietnam's Islands.

Hoang Sa and Truong Sa belong to Vietnam.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Eliter

Soryu said:


> _ Again, I was asking you: If old "Paracel" was not "modern Paracel", So what's it? Where's it gone?
> _ Why's no name group Islands become "modern Paracel"!? What's proof to proven that Islands are your "Paracel" that you said!?



1834 Vietnamese map was plagiarized Occident map's Paracels.
But That Paracels was illusion.
Western confirmed that illusion in 1840s. then use "Paracel" named another islands, that Chinses Xisha islands.

1834&#24180;&#22823;&#21335;&#19968;&#32479;&#22270;&#21117;&#31363;&#20102;&#35199;&#26041;&#22320;&#22270;&#19978;&#30340;Paracels.
&#20294;&#26159;&#24403;&#26102;&#35199;&#26041;&#22320;&#22270;&#19978;&#30340;Paracels&#23601;&#26159;&#24187;&#24819;
1840&#21069;&#21518;&#35199;&#26041;&#20154;&#35748;&#35782;&#21040;&#38169;&#35823;&#12290;&#21448;&#23558;Paracels&#21629;&#21517;&#20102;&#21478;&#19968;&#20010;&#32676;&#23707;&#65292;&#37027;&#23601;&#26159;&#20013;&#22269;&#30340;&#35199;&#27801;&#32676;&#23707;&#12290;

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## p3avi8tor69

Zero_wing said:


> Let fortify our territories



Fortify with what, paintball guns? You do not have the means. You and your barrio buddies are all talk and hot air. 

The Armed Forces of the Pinoys have no jet aircraft, no SAMs not even manpads, no SSMs, no torpedoes, no sonar, no military grade radars, no modern artillery (the artillery pieces numbering less than 40 for the whole military) where left over howitzers from WW2. Your entire airfarce consist of 16 Vietnam war era Hueys, 8 Polish dual engined transport choppers, 2 Vietnam era twin engined turboprop COIN bombers and 3 refurbished C130's. So let me ask you how will you fortify your territories?

Kid give up the islands and just concentrate on building up your tiny economy. No need to claim what you cannot protect.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

China has only one Island named "Hai Nan" in SCS. 







Postal Atlas of China published in 1933 shows that Guangdong province and Hainan as the southernmost point of China.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Soryu

Eliter said:


> 1834 Vietnamese map was plagiarized Occident map's Paracels.
> But That Paracels was illusion.
> Western confirmed that illusion in 1840s. then use "Paracel" named another islands, that Chinses Xisha islands.
> 
> 1834&#24180;&#22823;&#21335;&#19968;&#32479;&#22270;&#21117;&#31363;&#20102;&#35199;&#26041;&#22320;&#22270;&#19978;&#30340;Paracels.
> &#20294;&#26159;&#24403;&#26102;&#35199;&#26041;&#22320;&#22270;&#19978;&#30340;Paracels&#23601;&#26159;&#24187;&#24819;
> 1840&#21069;&#21518;&#35199;&#26041;&#20154;&#35748;&#35782;&#21040;&#38169;&#35823;&#12290;&#21448;&#23558;Paracels&#21629;&#21517;&#20102;&#21478;&#19968;&#20010;&#32676;&#23707;&#65292;&#37027;&#23601;&#26159;&#20013;&#22269;&#30340;&#35199;&#27801;&#32676;&#23707;&#12290;



Your arguments are nothing but pointless words. Which's documents about "Western confirmed that illusion in 1840s"!?
What's document, maps can proven China's sovereignty over Paracel and Spartly Islands!?
Or you want consider "other's document" was mistake, so you can used your "history records" to claim it!?

Your documents and arguments have no point can solve the issue in here, no chinese scholars bring it on International or Regional Conference until now.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Fsjal

Oh no, Aquino fortify forts. Oh the humanity.

We are already being defeated. The Chinese have good deployment of marines. They have:




Su-30MKK strike fighter




Q-5 attacker 

And also HQ-9 and HQ-16 SAM.


----------



## Zero_wing

p3avi8tor69 said:


> Fortify with what, paintball guns? You do not have the means. You and your barrio buddies are all talk and hot air.
> 
> The Armed Forces of the Pinoys have no jet aircraft, no SAMs not even manpads, no SSMs, no torpedoes, no sonar, no military grade radars, no modern artillery (the artillery pieces numbering less than 40 for the whole military) where left over howitzers from WW2. Your entire airfarce consist of 16 Vietnam war era Hueys, 8 Polish dual engined transport choppers, 2 Vietnam era twin engined turboprop COIN bombers and 3 refurbished C130's. So let me ask you how will you fortify your territories?
> 
> Kid give up the islands and just concentrate on building up your tiny economy. No need to claim what you cannot protect.



You do realized we just out grew china hahaha anyway true we are still a long way no doubt but we are in the level so you tut is really funny shows how brainless you are with your constant bashing as for islands its in UNCLOS and the Constitution of this country we have to defend what is ours i guess you have heard of Archipelagic doctrine before? from your post shows a lot about you typical chewa again hulik ka na kalbo hahahaha  Man that's so funny



Fsjal said:


> Oh no, Aquino fortify forts. Oh the humanity.
> 
> We are already being defeated. The Chinese have good deployment of marines. They have:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Su-30MKK strike fighter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Q-5 attacker
> 
> And also HQ-9 and HQ-16 SAM.



Wow nice paper weight i think the viets can make this plane into fireballs before they get near us at less they have original planes and not some rip off junk

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Bob Ong

Malaya said:


> *China fears PH may build structures in Ayungin Shoal*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Defense Secretary Voltaire Gazmin and Chinese Ambassador talking about the Ayungin Shoal issue in an informal talk in Camp Aguinaldo.*
> 
> By Alexis Romero, The Philippine Star
> 05/30/2013 | 05/30/2013
> 
> MANILA, Philippines - China has expressed concern that the Philippines might build structures in Ayungin Shoal, an area well within Manilas exclusive economic zone.
> 
> China, which has set up structures in areas it is claiming in the West Philippine Sea, raised the issue during an informal talk between Chinese Ambassador Ma Keqing and Defense Secretary Voltaire Gazmin at Camp Aguinaldo, Quezon City yesterday.
> 
> Gazmin assured the ambassador that the government is sending ships to the shoal to deliver supplies to soldiers monitoring the area.
> 
> They were concerned that the Philippines is coming up with structures, additional structures in the Ayungin Shoal, the defense chief told reporters.
> 
> I told her that the ship that is moving toward Ayungin Shoal is only for provisions of food and water for soldiers who are there, he added.
> 
> In an apparent effort to defuse tensions, the Philippines assured China that it has no plans to build infrastructure on Ayungin Shoal.
> 
> The ships are also for the rotation of troops. We cannot place people there permanently. Theyll go insane, Gazmin said.
> 
> Chinese envoy initiated the talk
> 
> Ma evaded questions about West Philippine Sea issues, saying that her talk with Gazmin was mainly about friendly relations between China and the Philippines.
> 
> We also talked about the balanced relations. I think China is ready to develop cooperation and very good exchanges between the two sides because this year is the year of friendly exchanges between our two countries, she said.
> 
> When asked whether they talked about the Philippines diplomatic protest against China, Ma said: Sorry, I really have to go. See you later.
> 
> Ma was the one who initiated the informal talk with Gazmin, which lasted about 10 minutes. She sought an audience with Gazmin on the sidelines of the celebration of the Peacekeepers Day at Camp Aguinaldo.
> 
> Gazmin ushered her to a corner of the Armed Forces Commissioned Officers Club.
> 
> Id like to talk to the secretary. I have a message for him, Ma was quoted by a source as saying.
> 
> Nobody heard the conversation between Gazmin and Ma, who both appeared serious. They, however, were seen smiling at each other as they parted.
> 
> Ayungin Shoal is 105.77 nautical miles from Palawan and is well within the Philippines 200-nautical mile exclusive economic zone.
> 
> It is part of the Kalayaan Island Group off Palawan and one of the areas occupied by the Philippines in the West Philippine Sea.
> 
> On May 10, the Philippines filed a protest against China for its illegal deployment of vessels around Ayungin Shoal.
> 
> The protest decried the provocative presence of two Chinese maritime surveillance vessels and one warship in the area, which violated international law.
> 
> China claims virtually the entire South China Sea while the Philippines, Malaysia, Vietnam, Brunei and Taiwan have overlapping claims in the area.
> 
> *Chinese strategy*
> 
> China is now employing tactics lifted from Go, an ancient Chinese board game, to restrict and isolate all Filipino troops deployed in the disputed Spratlys.
> 
> In the board game, two players, using white and black pieces or stones, alternately move their respective pieces until their opponent is left with no more room to maneuver as his position has been completely encircled.
> 
> What is happening there now is akin to the Philippines and China employing their respective strategies. A simple analogy to this is that China is playing the game Go to surround the opponents pieces until we are deprived of any moves out there, said a former naval officer who requested anonymity.
> 
> Unfortunately, he said while China is employing an ancient strategy to have total domination over South China Sea, the Philippines continues to pursue a different tack.
> 
> Unfortunately for us, we look at it as either a game of chess or checkers. Our strategy is not appropriate to check the Chinese strategy, he said.
> 
> He warned that if China continues its game, it may eventually isolate Filipino troops to the point that the military may find it difficult to conduct troop rotation and resupply operations in the islands occupied by Filipino forces in the area.
> 
> Navy chief Vice Admiral Jose Luis Alano said yesterday that despite the presence of these Chinese vessels, the Philippine Navy is not backing down from its mandate as force provider in the region.
> 
> Alano also assured the troops deployed in Ayungin Shoal on board the Navys logistic ship BRP Sierra Madre  which ran aground in the area years ago  that they will continue to receive their supplies and other needs.
> 
> We have agreed among ourselves (Spratlys claimant countries) to have a status quo that reprovisioning for all troops who have long been deployed in the region will not be hampered. We need to have the reprovisioning to be able to sustain our people that are deployed in the West Philippine Sea, Alano said.
> 
> Alano also said the mere presence of the Navy ship in Ayungin further bolstered the countrys territorial claim over the area, not to mention that the place is very close to Palawan and well within the Philippines exclusive economic zone.  With Jaime Laude, Michelle Zoleta
> 
> China fears PH may build structures in Ayungin Shoal | ABS-CBN News
> 
> 
> China cannot be trusted. They act like the peacemakers in front of cameras but behind they are traitors and selfish land grabber.


Who the hell think these Chinese thieves are? We can build structures, whatever we want in our country. Don't believe that stupid Chinese Ambassador, she has been a double talker and a liar. We don't need an approval of Chinese. Ayungin reef is clearly ours.


----------



## p3avi8tor69

Zero_wing said:


> You do realized we just out grew china hahaha anyway true we are still a long way no doubt but we are in the level so you tut is really funny shows how brainless you are with your constant bashing as for islands its in UNCLOS and the Constitution of this country we have to defend what is ours i guess you have heard of Archipelagic doctrine before? fshows a lot about you typical chewa again hulik ka nakalbo hahahaha Man that'plane into fireballs before they get near us at less they have original planes and not some rip off junk



You said you wanted to fortify, I answered you with details of your mimlitary capability yet you once again evaded when you are faced with facts You as always resorted to personal insults because you have nothing substantial to reply with.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

The 1330-tonne CMS&#65288;CCG&#65289;1118 luanched on 31.05.2013 at GJS&#65288;of CSSC&#65289; in Guangxi Autonomous Region&#65292;China&#65306;






The SCS has a new member&#12290;

More to come&#65292;a lot more&#12290;

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

Another vessel seen being painted China Coast Guard&#65288;CCG&#65289;&#65306;

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Fsjal

cirr said:


> The 1330-tonne CMS&#65288;CCG&#65289;1118 luanched on 31.05.2013 at GJS&#65288;of CSSC&#65289; in Guangxi Autonomous Region&#65292;China&#65306;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The SCS has a new member&#12290;
> 
> More to come&#65292;a lot more&#12290;



How much?

10?


----------



## Minjitta

cirr said:


> Another vessel seen being painted China Coast Guard&#65288;CCG&#65289;&#65306;


it the same boat got ramped by Vietnam Marine Police boat LOL!!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## HongWu

Minjitta said:


> it the same boat got ramped by Vietnam Marine Police boat LOL!!


 Keep crying to your daddy. Nobody cares when Chinese coast guard abuses your fisherman in our South China Sea.


----------



## EastSea

HongWu said:


> Keep crying to your daddy. Nobody cares when Chinese coast guard abuses your fisherman in our South China Sea.



China is big boy, but bad boy and uneducated.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cirr

Minjitta said:


> it the same boat got ramped by Vietnam Marine Police boat LOL!!



Having your usual dose of wet dreams again&#65311;

Your tiny boats are nothing' but saipans in the eyes of the CCG&#12290;

CMS&#65288;CCG&#65289;5001 formally inducted 51.05.3013&#65306;
















The vessel is expected to start patroling in the ESC, inluding waters near the Diaoyu Islands, in June or July.



Fsjal said:


> How much?
> 
> 10?



Hundreds with tonnages ranging from 600 right up to 12500.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## EastSea

Chinese are aggressive sea pirates, so reason why you were enslaving by Japanese in the past.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zero_wing

p3avi8tor69 said:


> You said you wanted to fortify, I answered you with details of your mimlitary capability yet you once again evaded when you are faced with facts You as always resorted to personal insults because you have nothing substantial to reply with.



Sound like the chinese not me or any Non imperial here


----------



## Minjitta

cirr said:


> Having your usual dose of wet dreams again&#65311;
> 
> Your tiny boats are nothing' but saipans in the *eyes of the CCG*&#12290;
> 
> CMS&#65288;CCG&#65289;5001 formally inducted 51.05.3013&#65306;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The vessel is expected to start patroling in the ESC, inluding waters near the Diaoyu Islands, in June or July.
> 
> 
> 
> Hundreds with tonnages ranging from 600 right up to 12500.



Didn't know your have a big eyes LOL!!



HongWu said:


> Keep crying to your daddy. Nobody cares when Chinese coast guard abuses your fisherman in our South China Sea.



and nobody cares when your cousins got shot for being intruder to Philippines

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Eliter

Nansha Qundao, Nansha Islands, Spratly Islands &#20013;&#22269;&#21335;&#27801;&#32676;&#23707;
141 &#26579;&#38738;&#19996;&#30977; Ross Reef
142&#26579;&#38738;&#27801;&#27954; Grierson Reef 
143&#40857;&#34430;&#30977; Bamford Reef

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Fsjal

Does anyone know how many Chinese and Vietnamese military posts there are in the Spratly?


----------



## EastSea



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## walle

^ propaganda?


----------



## Eliter

Vietnamese police break up anti-China protest

Vietnamese police break up anti-China protest - SFGate

HANOI, Vietnam (AP) &#8212; Police detained about 15 anti-China protesters Sunday during a march in the Vietnamese capital that showed the domestic pressure the government faces when dealing with Beijing's muscular approach to territorial claims in the South China Sea.

Scuffles broke out as police hauled ringleaders or especially vocal protesters into buses during the rally, a rare show of dissent in the tightly controlled one-party state.

Some members of the ruling Communist Party fear that popular anger over China, its ideological ally and biggest trading partner, could easily bleed into a broader protest movement against its rule. The party already faces growing calls for reform because of economic malaise, corruption and the free spread of information critical toward it over the Internet.

Sunday's protest was advertised via Internet blogs and Facebook pages.

It took place in the heart of Hanoi, around Hoan Kiem Lake, a popular Sunday morning spot for locals and foreign tourists to walk and sip coffee in cafes.

"Down with the henchmen of China, down with the traitors," one detainee shouted through the window of a government bus taking him away.

Authorities warned via loudspeakers that those marching should disperse, but also said the government was determined to defend its sovereignty against China.

Uniformed and plainclothes security officers outnumbered the approximately 150 protesters, who included men, women and children, some holding banners calling China a "bully."

It was unclear whether those detained would be charged. Typically, people detained at protests like this are released after a few hours.

"The government is not doing enough, it must do more (against China)," said Nguyen Quang A, a well-known economist who took part in the march.

Vietnam and China have long sparred over who owns the South China Sea, a dispute that also involves the Philippines, Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan.

Over the last two years, America's diplomatic tilt to Southeast Asia and energy-hungry China's growing assertiveness in the waters has focused international attention on the issue.

This past week, the Vietnamese government alleged a Chinese vessel had rammed into a Vietnamese fishing boat, damaging it. China said it had done nothing wrong. The deputies of the Communist Party-controlled national assembly urged the government to take stronger action to defend the country's sovereignty and protect its fishermen.

In Singapore on Sunday, Vietnamese Deputy Minister of National Defense Col.-Gen. Nguyen Chi Vinh told a security conference that the region has not enjoyed stability and called for protection for fishermen and to "avoid the use of force against the fishermen by all means."

In the summer of 2011, there were two months of weekly anti-Chinese protests in Hanoi, an unprecedented show of popular anger in the country.

There also were demonstrations against Beijing in 2012, but police broke them up, gradually using more force as it became clear they were becoming a source of domestic opposition to the party.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## filipino_american

UNCLOS is not the only INTERNATIONAL LAW the Philippines base their claim from.

Others are:

1. Terra Nullius and

2. EFFECTIVE Jurisdiction.

The Island of PALMAS was historically part of the Philippines. Spain gave it to the AMERICANS thru the TREATY OF PARIS. The Philippines EVEN HAD THE TITLE, but the International Court gave it to Indonesia because of their EFFECTIVE JURISDICTION.

Yes the PHILIPPINES HAD THE TITLE HISTORICALLY and LEGALLY, but UNDER INTERNATIONAL LAW, the occupation must be CONTINUOUS, UNINTERRUPTED, and ACTUAL EVIDENCE of JURISDICTION must be shown. That's why the Philippines lost to INDONESIA even though HISTORICALLY the island was theirs.

Other than the PALMAS ISLAND ISSUE, there's also a couple of International Court cases that honored EFFECTIVE JURISDICTION over HISTORICAL CLAIMS like the:

1. Clipperton Island (Mexico-France) Case

2. The Minquiers and Ecrehos Case (France/United Kingdom) Case

3. Indonesia-Malaysia Island Dipute

In the CASE of SPRATLYS, the PHILIPPINES has maintained effective jurisdiction of the ISLANDS. The Philippines HAVE MAINTAINED EFFECTIVE JURISDICTION.

Under International Law, CHINA'S FAKE TITLE is NO MATCH with the Philippines EFFECTIVE JURISDICTION based on the 4 ICJ CASES ABOVE.

Also, according to "TRUE" History, the CHINESE were actually late comers to the South China Sea. The Malays people ruled the South China Sea according to Anthropologists, Archaeologists and Asian Historians.


----------



## filipino_american

The Treaty of Paris will not affect the Philippines' Case
The International Court Ignored the TREATY OF PARIS
see the OFFICIAL ICJ RULING:http://untreaty.un.org/cod/riaa/cases/vol_II/829-871.pdf

Palmas/ Miangas Island Case: 4 April 1928

US (for the Philippines) V. Netherlands (for Indonesia)

Palmas/ Miangas Island is now part of Indonesia. 

The court favored the NETHERLANDS because of EFFECTIVE JURISDICTION.

The court ignored the treaty of paris.

The Palmas/ Miangas Island was INCLUDED in the Treaty of Paris between Spain and the USA as PART OF THE PHILIPPINES. It was well within the BOUNDARIES of the treaty of paris.

But the court favored the NETHERLANDS because of EFFECTIVE JURISDICTION even though the U.S. HAD MAPS from SPAIN TO PROVE they own the Islands

THE TREATY OF PARIS IS OF NO CONSEQUENCES

AGAIN

THE TREATY OF PARIS IS OF NO CONSEQUENCES

THE INTERNATIONAL COURT FAVORED

EFFECTIVE JURISDICTION 

OVER

THE TREATY OF PARIS


----------



## filipino_american

In the case of Scarborough shoal and the Spraltys, the Philippines has exercised both effective occupation and effective jurisdiction. 

FACT: CHINA NEVER REALLY CONTROLLED THE ISLANDS.

1. The Philippines currently controls 7 Spratly Islands, China has ZERO. China only controls reefs which are under water. Per UNCLOS, the waters above those reefs are part of the Philippines' EEZ. So China' is occupying the reefs illegally!

Scarborough Shoal - Chinese ships just recently started staying there, to be exact just since April 2012, which is more like a form of HARASSMENT rather than effective jurisdiction. Under UN Charter, INVASION is Illegal. The Philippines Case VS China in the Permanent Court of Arbitration will take care of this. The 5 judges are complete already.

2. After the Treaty of Paris was signed, the Philippines under American rule decided a shipwreck case in the Scarborough shoal AND NOT CHINA! Showing Scarborough was under the Philippines Jurisdiction and Not CHINA during that time.

3. THE PHILIPPINES has ARRESTED A LOT OF ILLEGAL CHINESE, VIETNAMESE, AND TAIWANESE FISHERMEN IN SCARBOROUGH SHOAL WITHOUT ANY PROTEST FROM CHINA, VIETNAM OR TAIWAN. CHINA PROTESTED JUST RECENTLY. 

SAME WITH THE SPRATLYS, THE PHILIPPINES HAS ARRESTED ILLEGAL CHINESE, VIETNAMESE, AND MALAYSIANS WITHOUT ANY PROTEST FROM THEIR RESPECTED COUNTIRES.

FACT: CHINA NEVER ARRESTED FILIPINO FISHERMEN IN THE DISPUTED ISLANDS.

THE PHILIPPINES HAS ALSO CAPTURED ILLEGAL CHINESE FISHING BOATS

4. THE PHILIPPINE NAVY AND COASTGUARD HAVE ALWAYS BEEN PATROLLING THE ISLANDS. 

5. Scarborough Shoal was also used as an impact range by Philippine and U.S. Naval Forces stationed in Subic Bay in Zambales for defense purposes.

FACT: CHINA NEVER PROTESTED. 

6. The Phil. has also been conducting scientific, topographic, and marine studies in the disputed islands 

7. Filipino fishermen have been fishing in the disputed areas since prehistory

8. The Philippines has a municipality in the disputed islands called Pag-Asa. You can find houses, a school, military posts, and other infrastructures.

----------------------------

China never controlled the ISLANDS, under EFFECTIVE JURISDICTION, the Philippines will win the case.


----------



## filipino_american

Evidence of Philippines Jurisdiction over Scarborough

The Philippine Supreme Court (under American control) decided a case involving a shipwreck in Scarborough and NOT CHINA. The shipwreck predates China&#8217;s 1935 claim.

ERLANGER & GALINGER, Plaintiffs-Appellants , vs. THE SWEDISH EAST ASIATIC CO.,(LTD.) ET AL., defendants. THE "OELWERKE TEUTONIA" and NEW ZEALAND INSURANCE CO.(LTD.), appellants.

The Philippines decided the CASE and NOT CHINA!

The lawsuit was decided by the Philippines&#8217; top court in 1916 &#8211; led by Filipino Chief Justice Cayetano Arellano 

A clear evidence that the Philippines was exercising jurisdiction over the shoal during that period.

This case is a proof that the Philippines was responsible to shipwrecks in the Scarborough

THE DECISION AND COPY OF THE CASE CAN BE VIEWED HERE: G.R. No. L-10051

Ancient Chinese Maps did not include the Spratlys and Scarborough.

Chinese Territory ends at Hainan Island

The southernmost point in China, called Tianya Haijiao or &#8220;the End of the World&#8221;, is on Hainan Island. 

Ancient Chinese Maps

1. Year 1461





- 
A Ming Dynasty map published in 1461. Scarborough and Spratly Islands were not in the map.

2. Year 1561




- 
A map of the Yuan Dynasty drawn in 1561 showed the Island of Hainan as China&#8217;s southernmost territory.

3. Year 1653




- 
Another Chinese map drawn in 1653 showed the Hainan Island as its southernmost boundary.

4. China&#8217;s map in 1728




- 
Again, no Scarborough or Spratly Islands were not in the map

5. A map of Guangdong province in 1897




- 
Hainan Island was the end of their territory.

6. 1904 Chinese Map




]

7. 1905 




- 
Qing Dynasty in 1905

8. Qing Empire published by Shanghai company in 1908






to be continued.....

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## filipino_american

Continuation...

Ancient Chinese Maps did not include the Spratlys and Scarborough

9. 1909 




- 
A Qing Dynasty&#8217;s map in 1909 also showed Hainan Island as China&#8217;s southernmost land.

10. 1912




- 
China&#8217;s map during the revolution published in 1912 by Japan&#8217;s Osaka publisher.

11. 1926




- 
Republic of China

12. 1935




-
Republic of China

13. Europe, Africa and Asia by China in 1939.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## filipino_american

Old Italian Map Supports the Philippines' Claim






The Italians used the word &#8220;PANACOT&#8221;, the Spanish name of the Scarborough 

Shoal.

The Italians named BAJO DE PARAGUA (The Spanish of the Spratlys)&#8220;LOS BAJOS 

DE PARAGUA&#8221;.

Paragua is the Spanish name of the Island of Palawan

Bajo de Paragua means under Palawan

----

More OLD MAPS to be posted

Old European Maps showed Scarborough and Spratlys were not part of CHINA

BRITISH OLD MAPS

1.





2.





3.





4.





5.





6.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## filipino_american

OLD FRENCH MAPS showed Scarborough and Spratlys were not part of CHINA

1.





2.





3.





4.





5.





6.





7.





8.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## gpit

filipino_american said:


> In the case of Scarborough shoal and the Spraltys, the Philippines has exercised both effective occupation and effective jurisdiction.
> 
> FACT: CHINA NEVER REALLY CONTROLLED THE ISLANDS.
> 
> 1. The Philippines currently controls 7 Spratly Islands, China has ZERO. China only controls reefs which are under water. Per UNCLOS, the waters above those reefs are part of the Philippines' EEZ. So China' is occupying the reefs illegally!
> 
> Scarborough Shoal - Chinese ships just recently started staying there, to be exact just since April 2012, which is more like a form of HARASSMENT rather than effective jurisdiction. Under UN Charter INVASION is Illegal. The Philippines Case VS China in the Permanent Court of Arbitration will take case of this.
> 
> ...




Last time I heard a comment from a PLA officer who predicted that if the Philippines led by inept Aquino keep making trouble against Taiwan fishing men and mainland, *sooner or later* the 7 illegally occupied islands will be in Chinese hands.


----------



## filipino_american

OLD FRENCH MAPS showed Scarborough and Spratlys were not part of CHINA

9.






OLD ITALIAN MAP






OLD DUTCH MAP showed Scarborough and Spratlys were not part of CHINA






Old AMERICAN Map showed Scarborough and Spratlys were not part of CHINA





Other EUROPEAN MAP 






To Sum Up

1. Old European Maps support the Philippines Claim

2. Old European and American Maps showed Scarborough and the Spratlys were not part of China

3. Maps published by CHINA also did not include Scarborough and the Spratlys

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## filipino_american

European Old Maps Support the Philippines' Scarborough and Spratly Islands claim

Old Spanish Maps of the Philippines

1.





2.





Old British Empire Maps Support the Philippines' Claim

1.



- 

zoomed in version:





The British used the word &#8220;PANACOT&#8221;, the FILIPINO name of the Scarborough Shoal.

The British named BAJO DE PARAGUA (The Spanish of the Spratlys)&#8220;SHELVES OF PARAGO&#8221;.

Paragua is the Spanish name of the Island of Palawan

Bajo de Paragua means under Palawan

2.



-1804

3.



- 1828

Old Italian Map Supports the Philippines' Claim






The Italians used the word &#8220;PANACOT&#8221;, the FILIPINO name of the Scarborough Shoal.

The Italians named BAJO DE PARAGUA (The Spanish of the Spratlys)&#8220;LOS BAJOS DE PARAGUA&#8221;.

Paragua is the Spanish name of the Island of Palawan

Bajo de Paragua means under Palawan


----------



## filipino_american

European Old Maps Support the Philippines' Scarborough and Spratly Islands claim

French Old Maps

1.





The French used the word &#8220;PANACOT&#8221;, the FILIPINO name of the Scarborough Shoal. 

The French also used the word &#8220;BAJO DE PARAGUA&#8221;, the Spanish name of the Spratly Islands. 

2.





1826 Map &#8211; Scarborough and Spratlys part of the Philippines

3.





4.





5.





6.



- Spratlys same color with the Philippines, different color with Vietnam.

7.



- The Islands are of the same color as the Philippines.

8. The French describing the Sultanates of Brunei and Sulu (?) who ruled the Spratlys, Palawan, Most of Mindanao, Sulu, Mindanao, and most of BORNEO.




- 

Spratly same color with Palawan and Borneo.

To Sum Up

1. Old European Maps support the Philippines Claim

2. Old European and American Maps showed Scarborough and the Spratlys were 

not part of China

3. Maps published by CHINA also did not include Scarborough and the 

Spratlys


----------



## filipino_american

gpit said:


> Last time I heard a comment from a PLA officer who predicted that if the Philippines led by inept Aquino keep making trouble against Taiwan fishing men and mainland, *sooner or later* the 7 illegally occupied islands will be in Chinese hands.



The South China Sea is very important strategically, militarily, and ECONOMICALLY to the USA, Japan, Taiwan, South Korea, India, and to the ASEAN.

The U.S. will defend the SOUTH CHINA SEA from CHINA *not because of the Philippines.*, but because of its VALUE.

What will happen to Japan, S. Korea, Vietnam, Taiwan etc. if CHINA gets the SOUTH CHINA SEA? The South China Sea is their LIFE LINE.

Again the U.S. and its allies including Australia and India will protect the south china sea *because of its value and NOT JUST because of the Philippines.*

They would rather have the PHILIPPINES administer the AREA than COMMUNIST CHINA.

The aircraft carriers of the U.S. in the South China Sea and Indian Warships visiting SCS Claimants: Malaysia, Vietnam and the Philippines recently is a CLEAR WARNING TO CHINA.

Also, how can CHINA claim LEGALLY when NO International Law support her claim.

Also, as of today, NO COUNTRY SUPPORTS and RECOGNIZES CHINA'S FANTASY 9 dash claim.

___

Chinese ruler's MULTIPLE and CONTINUOUS rejection to take the ISSUE before INTERNATIONAL COURTS is a DIRECT admission that they cannot PROVE their FANTASY 9 dash claim UNDER ANY INTERNATIONAL LAW. Superpowers like the USA have lost in the International Courts when they invoked HISTORICAL CLAIMS (Palmas-Miangas Case). So, China cannot say the COURT is BIAS.

If China believes that her HISTORICAL CLAIM is VALID then why is she scared of the court? Just use your common sense. You dont have to think deep.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

China Coast Guard&#65288;CCG&#65289;2166&#65306;

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

CMS 1118 launched on 31.05.2013 and CMS 5001 formally inducted on 02.06.2013:











CCG 3368:






MSA Haixun 1 ready to go:


----------



## cirr

Type 056 corvette 597 formally handed over to PLAN Hong Kong Garrison(according to the red banners):






You guys are gonna see lots of this beauty, and her numerous sister ships, in the SCS in the future.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## soaringeagle

Hmmm, reinforced bulbous bow, bow thrust-er, helipad and missile tube option if desired, quite nice.
With the current ship building capacity, one every two weeks will be quite achievable.


----------



## filipino_american

cirr said:


> Type 056 corvette 597 formally handed over to PLAN Hong Kong Garrison(according to the red banners):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You guys are gonna see lots of this beauty, and her numerous sister ships, in the SCS in the future.



The USA/NATO, Japan, India, South Korea, Australia, New Zealand, and MOST ASEAN Nations

will keep the South China Sea Open.

The SCS is the LIFE LINE of Japan, South Korea, Taiwan etc.

They are dependent on the Middle East Oil and most of their ECONOMIC transactions pass on the SCS.

Also, the SCS is ECONOMICALLY and STRATEGICALLY important to the Countries I have mentioned above.

India trades with Japan, ASEAN etc.

The US will have a great disadvantage if the Communists get the SCS.

The SCS must remain open

Do you think those countries will let CHINA take over and choke their economies and interests?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## filipino_american

cirr said:


> China Coast Guard&#65288;CCG&#65289;2166&#65306;



Those ships will be kicked out of the SCS soon

5-Member UNCLOS Arbitral Tribunal Fully Constituted

5-Member UNCLOS Arbitral Tribunal Fully Constituted

25 April 2013- The Department of Foreign Affairs announced today that the President of the International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea (ITLOS) has appointed the remaining three members of the five-member UNCLOS Arbitral Tribunal including the President that will hear the Statement of the Claim filed by the Philippines against China on the West Philippine Sea.

The members of the Arbitral Tribunal are:

Judge Chris Pinto (Sri Lanka), President;
Judge Rüdiger Wolfrum (Germany), Member, current ITLOS Judge;
Judge Stanislaw Pawlak (Poland), Member, current ITLOS Judge;
Judge Jean-Pierre Cot (France), Member, current ITLOS Judge; and
Judge Alfred Soons (The Netherlands), Member.

-------

Once China's 9 dash claim gets invalidated by the court, USA, NATO and the ASIA-PACIFIC NATO (Japan, Australia etc.) WILL HAVE THE LEGAL REASON to keep the SCS Open by Confronting CHINA to follow INTERNATIONAL LAW

They will enforce the International Court's decision.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## hurt

filipino_american said:


> Those ships will be kicked out of the SCS soon
> 
> 5-Member UNCLOS Arbitral Tribunal Fully Constituted
> 
> 5-Member UNCLOS Arbitral Tribunal Fully Constituted
> 
> 25 April 2013- The Department of Foreign Affairs announced today that the President of the International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea (ITLOS) has appointed the remaining three members of the five-member UNCLOS Arbitral Tribunal including the President that will hear the Statement of the Claim filed by the Philippines against China on the West Philippine Sea.
> 
> The members of the Arbitral Tribunal are:
> 
> Judge Chris Pinto (Sri Lanka), President;
> Judge Rüdiger Wolfrum (Germany), Member, current ITLOS Judge;
> Judge Stanislaw Pawlak (Poland), Member, current ITLOS Judge;
> Judge Jean-Pierre Cot (France), Member, current ITLOS Judge; and
> Judge Alfred Soons (The Netherlands), Member.
> 
> -------
> 
> Once China's 9 dash claim gets invalidated by the court, USA, NATO and the ASIA-PACIFIC NATO (Japan, Australia etc.) WILL HAVE THE LEGAL REASON to keep the SCS Open by Confronting CHINA to follow INTERNATIONAL LAW
> 
> They will enforce the International Court's decision.



What's The Date Today?



filipino_american said:


> The USA/NATO, Japan, India, South Korea, Australia, New Zealand, and MOST ASEAN Nations
> 
> will keep the South China Sea Open.
> 
> The SCS is the LIFE LINE of Japan, South Korea, Taiwan etc.
> 
> They are dependent on the Middle East Oil and most of their ECONOMIC transactions pass on the SCS.
> 
> Also, the SCS is ECONOMICALLY and STRATEGICALLY important to the Countries I have mentioned above.
> 
> India trades with Japan, ASEAN etc.
> 
> The US will have a great disadvantage if the Communists get the SCS.
> 
> The SCS must remain open
> 
> Do you think they will let CHINA take over?



US use it for poor Philippines


----------



## cirr

Beijing May 31, 2013 Last Updated at 17:27 IST 

*China builds benthal observation system to study oceans*

Chinese scientists have finished building the country's first benthal observation system to study the deepest zones of the oceans. 

*The system located in waters near the city of Sanya in Hainan Province* is part of efforts to build *a large-scale benthal observation network*, according to a source from the South China Sea Institute of Oceanology under the Chinese Academy of Sciences (CAS). 

Benthal refers to the deepest zone or region of the ocean. 

The system was jointly designed by the CAS South China Sea Institute of Oceanology, the Shenyang Institute of Automation and the Institute of Acoustics, state-run Xinhua news agency reported.








This means that henceforth all submarine activities in the SCS are under constant and close watch.


----------



## filipino_american

hurt said:


> What's The Date Today?
> 
> 
> 
> US use it for poor Philippines



The Procedure will take up to 4 years just like other Cases.

But I don't think you will be able to laugh once your 9 dash claim gets invalidated lol 

China will LOSE FACE and WILL BE CONDEMNED world wide hahahah!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## hurt

filipino_american said:


> The Procedure will take up to 4 years just like other Cases.
> 
> But I don't think you will be able to laugh once your 9 dash claim gets invalidated lol
> 
> China will LOSE FACE and WILL BE CONDEMNED world wide hahahah!



4 years? 
There will no Philippines in SCS.


----------



## cirr

HPS on 01.06.2013:






Not captured by the pic above are 1 Type 056 corvette on the lower left corner behind the trees, 2 brand new CMS 1330-tonne vessels on the lower right corner, 2 Type 056 corvettes and 1 Type 054A FFG in the right hangar, an unknown number of a new class of CMS vessels in the left and right hangars, plus numerous components and sections ashore. 

And this is only a tiny part of the shipbuilding capability that China has deployed to build hundreds of naval and law enforcement ships.


----------



## Zero_wing

So we have four years to build a fleet wow tall order


----------



## Eliter

Xisha Islands or Paracel Islands(&#20013;&#22269;&#35199;&#27801;&#32676;&#23707
&#20013;&#24314;&#23707; Triton Island[/SIZE]


----------



## filipino_american

hurt said:


> 4 years?
> There will no Philippines in SCS.



How confident are you?

You can't even fire at any Philippine Ships ahahahaha!


----------



## Zero_wing

filipino_american said:


> How confident are you?
> 
> You can't even fire at any Philippine Ships ahahahaha!



let them hey chinese trolls fire all that you got oh wait you people just did and we vermin you hate so much is still here! losers


----------



## filipino_american

The CHAMPA KINGDOM (7th century through to 1832)






The kingdom of Champa was a "MALAY" kingdom that controlled what is now central Vietnam from approximately the 7th century through to 1832. They speak Cham, a Malayo-Polynesian language.

The Ancient name of the SOUTH CHINA SEA was the CHAM SEA. Named after the POWERFUL MALAY KINGDOM OF CHAMPA. The Europeans renamed the area SOUTH CHINA SEA just during the European Colonial Era.

The South China Sea was RULED by the OLD MALAYS (ancestors of the Taiwanese Aborigines, Filipinos, Malaysians, Indonesians, and CHAMPA VIETS) from TAIWAN, CENTRAL AND SOUTHERN VIETNAM, to the rest of the MALAY ARCHIPELAGO according to the ARCHAEOLOGISTS, ANTHROPOLOGISTS and HISTORIANS.

World Historians are LAUGHING for SURE AT CHINA'S FIRST DISCOVERY CLAIM 

The OLD MALAY people MOVED OUT OF TAIWAN to populate CENTRAL VIETNAM, the Philippines and the rest of the MALAY Archipelago long long time ago before the CHINESE learned sea navigation. 

The CHINESE PEOPLE were late comers to the South CHINA SEA.


----------



## cirr

CCG 2350











ready to kick some azz&#12290;


----------



## Eliter

Nansha Qundao, Nansha Islands, Spratly Islands (&#21335;&#27801;&#32676;&#23707
Mahuan Dao, Nanshan Island &#39532;&#27426;&#23707;
Feixin Dao, Flat Island &#36153;&#20449;&#23707;
Wufang Jiao, Jackson Atoll &#20116;&#26041;&#30977;


----------



## neehar

rott said:


> Aggressive diplomacy? Would you or any Indian sit by and let Pakistan occupy the whole of Kashmir?



we had our differences fought wars both conventional and proxy and people started to realize that it can be only solved with diplomacy not military might.and china is doing the same mistake now..guess why all ur scs neighbors are moving closer to america??so much for the "peaceful "rise of china.


----------



## hurt

Zero_wing said:


> So we have four years to build a fleet wow tall order



Let us see your "fleet"


----------



## filipino_american

hurt said:


> Let us see your "fleet"




The International Court's Decision will be OUR MOST LETHAL and STRONGEST FLEET.

Once the decision has been made in favor of the Philippines,

China will lose face

China will be shamed

China will suffer International Condemnation if she doesn't follow the ruling

China will be called a *ROGUE NATION* like North Korea if she doesn't follow the ruling

China will be called a *NON LAW ABIDING COUNTRY* if she doesn't follow the ruling


China will be FORCED to withdraw her boats.

The RULE OF THE LAW will prevail.

and the Philippines will WIN without even firing a single shot!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## hurt

filipino_american said:


> The International Court's Decision will be OUR MOST LETHAL and STRONGEST FLEET.
> 
> Once the decision has been made in favor of the Philippines,
> 
> China will lose face
> 
> China will be shamed
> 
> China will suffer International Condemnation if she doesn't follow the ruling
> 
> China will be called a *ROGUE NATION* like North Korea if she doesn't follow the ruling
> 
> China will be called a *NON LAW ABIDING COUNTRY* if she doesn't follow the ruling
> 
> 
> China will be FORCED to withdraw her boats.
> 
> The RULE OF THE LAW will prevail.
> 
> and the Philippines will WIN without even firing a single shot!



Please rely on aliens


----------



## Pinoy

There is a great chance that the Philippines will win the case it brought against China in the United Nations. A favorable UN ruling will dash any hope for China's imagined nine-dash line map. 

China knows that a UN ruling will also legalize the possible entry of US forces in the enforcement of a UN mandate. America's pivot will have a legal foothold that would place China in a bind. It is significant to note that China is using North Korea as a leverage to appease the US to gain more time in securing the vast West Philippine Sea but a UN resolution will thwart it eventually.

This is one of the reasons why China hates so much the Philippines for bringing the issue to the UN. Once the UN resolution was made, the ASEAN nations will find a stronger common ground to stand against China.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## hurt

Pinoy said:


> There is a great chance that the Philippines will win the case it brought against China in the United Nations. A favorable UN ruling will dash any hope for China's imagined nine-dash line map.
> 
> China knows that a UN ruling will also legalize the possible entry of US forces in the enforcement of a UN mandate. America's pivot will have a legal foothold that would place China in a bind. It is significant to note that China is using North Korea as a leverage to appease the US to gain more time in securing the vast West Philippine Sea but a UN resolution will thwart it eventually.
> 
> This is one of the reasons why China hates so much the Philippines for bringing the issue to the UN. Once the UN resolution was made, the ASEAN nations will find a stronger common ground to stand against China.



There is not any chance


----------



## Pinoy

hurt said:


> There is not any chance


China is doomed!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## hurt

Pinoy said:


> China is doomed!



Plz face itCruel reality


----------



## Zero_wing

hurt said:


> Plz face itCruel reality



Man you love to troll around


----------



## hurt

Zero_wing said:


> Man you love to troll around


Men you Love unrealistic fantasy.


----------



## Zero_wing

hurt said:


> Men you Love unrealistic fantasy.



Really says the guy from the country trying to take a whole sea


----------



## HongWu

Spain and USA ruled the whole Philippines so why not?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## filipino_american

hurt said:


> Please rely on aliens



 Stop fantasizing and hallucinating 

 Please WAKE up 

 Your FANTASY 9 dash claim is UNREAL


----------



## filipino_american

hurt said:


> There is not any chance



Stop Fantasizing! 

Your 9 dash claim is only a FANTASY lmao! 

The UN COURT will WAKE U UP SOON

The UN COURT will SLAP your FACE HARD to make sure you WAKE UP hahahah 

 lmao zedong!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## filipino_american

Pinoy said:


> There is a great chance that the Philippines will win the case it brought against China in the United Nations. A favorable UN ruling will dash any hope for China's imagined nine-dash line map.
> 
> China knows that a UN ruling will also legalize the possible entry of US forces in the enforcement of a UN mandate. America's pivot will have a legal foothold that would place China in a bind. It is significant to note that China is using North Korea as a leverage to appease the US to gain more time in securing the vast West Philippine Sea but a UN resolution will thwart it eventually.
> 
> This is one of the reasons why China hates so much the Philippines for bringing the issue to the UN. Once the UN resolution was made, the ASEAN nations will find a stronger common ground to stand against China.




China is CHALLENGING the Integrity of UNCLOS

China is CHALLENGING the Integrity of International Laws

China is CHALLENGING the Integrity of the UNITED NATIONS

China is EVOLVING in to a ROUGE NATION like NORTH KOREA

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## filipino_american

HongWu said:


> Spain and USA ruled the whole Philippines so why not?



We are now in the MODERN World.

The RAPE of NANKING has passed

We have now INTERNATIONAL LAWS to follow.

We have UNITED NATIONS now.

If you dont follow the LAW, NANKING will be raped again. Remember that

LMAO ZEDONG!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cirr

Unmanned Survey Craft carries out its first measurements in the SCS&#65306;







Top speed&#65306;18 nots


----------



## Zero_wing

cirr said:


> Unmanned Survey Craft carries out its first measurements in the SCS&#65306;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Top speed&#65306;18 nots



pirated from the Israelis man china stole that too


----------



## HongWu

filipino_american said:


> We are now in the MODERN World.
> 
> The RAPE of NANKING has passed
> 
> We have now INTERNATIONAL LAWS to follow.
> 
> We have UNITED NATIONS now.
> 
> If you dont follow the LAW, NANKING will be raped again. Remember that
> 
> LMAO ZEDONG!


Your colonial masters couldn't save you when we grabbed Scarborough Shoal. We grabbed Ayungin Shoal and you are still crying for daddy. After the Spanish, Americans and Japanese raped you Pinoys you worship them. It's time for China to continue the long tradition of foreign masters for the Pinoys!


----------



## Zero_wing

HongWu said:


> Your colonial masters couldn't save you when we grabbed Scarborough Shoal. We grabbed Ayungin Shoal and you are still crying for daddy. After the Spanish, Americans and Japanese raped you Pinoys you worship them. It's time for China to continue the long tradition of foreign masters for the Pinoys!



Wow so its a shoal not an island so your occupying it good to know your admitting that peaceful rise is a myth

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## filipino_american

cirr said:


> Unmanned Survey Craft carries out its first measurements in the SCS&#65306;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Top speed&#65306;18 nots



Another vessel to be kicked out of the SCS by the UN Court soon out of shame.

hahahah


----------



## filipino_american

HongWu said:


> Your colonial masters couldn't save you when we grabbed Scarborough Shoal. We grabbed Ayungin Shoal and you are still crying for daddy. After the Spanish, Americans and Japanese raped you Pinoys you worship them. It's time for China to continue the long tradition of foreign masters for the Pinoys!



I don't think you can invade the Ayungin. Filipino troops are there.

Also we actually have to THANK you for invading Scarborough reef, again reef. The issue was INTERNATIONALIZED. ROGUE CHINA was in the front page everyday. Also, we were able to SUE CHINA. China gave us the GO SIGNAL TO SUE THEM. China gave us the GO SIGNAL for AFP modernization. China gave the GO SIGNAL for the American ASIA Pivot.

The case has been filed. Once we get the LEGAL papers from the court, China know what to do next. Walk out of the REEFS and features they illegally occupy OUT OF SHAME.

hahahaha!

Again, thank you for the GO SIGNAL.

lamo zedong!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## HongWu

filipino_american said:


> I don't think you can invade the Ayungin. Filipino troops are there.
> 
> Also we actually have to THANK you for invading Scarborough reef, again reef. The issue was INTERNATIONALIZED. ROGUE CHINA was in the front page everyday. Also, we were able to SUE CHINA. China gave us the GO SIGNAL TO SUE THEM. China gave us the GO SIGNAL for AFP modernization. China gave the GO SIGNAL for the American ASIA Pivot.
> 
> The case has been filed. Once we get the LEGAL papers from the court, China know what to do next. Walk out of the REEFS and features they illegally occupy OUT OF SHAME.
> 
> hahahaha!
> 
> Again, thank you for the GO SIGNAL.
> 
> lamo zedong!


 Keep begging your colonial masters....


----------



## Eliter

Xisha Islands or Paracel Islands &#20013;&#22269;&#35199;&#27801;&#32676;&#23707;
&#29642;&#29786;&#23707; Pattle Island


----------



## Malaya

*US to block moves to seize control of disputed seas*
(The Philippine Star) | June 6, 2013






*KUALA LUMPUR &#8211; The United States will oppose moves by any country to seize control of disputed areas in the South China Sea by force, the top American military commander in the Pacific said yesterday.*

Adm. Samuel Locklear added that rival claimants might need to seek compromises to resolve the feud over potentially oil-rich territories.

The commander of US Pacific Command did not mention any country by name, but China&#8217;s increasingly aggressive claims to disputed islands have triggered worries about confrontations with others, including the Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia and Brunei.

*&#8220;We will oppose the change of status quo by force by anyone,&#8221; *Locklear told reporters during a visit to Malaysia.

*&#8220;We need to retain the status quo until we get to a code of conduct or a solution by party nations that is peacefully accepted.&#8221;*

Southeast Asian governments want a legally binding code of conduct with China to deter hostile actions and prevent fighting. But Beijing has not clearly said when it would discuss the proposal.

Locklear said the US would not take sides but added that a code of conduct that enables maritime officers &#8220;to understand the boundaries of what they can do (would be) in the best interest for a peaceful solution.&#8221;

He nevertheless said tensions were unlikely to escalate badly because the countries &#8220;understand this could be a long process, they understand restraint.&#8221;

China has sought to resolve disputes through bilateral talks.

*Locklear visit*

Locklear is expected to visit Manila on June 6 to 7 to discuss security matters with his Philippine counterparts.

&#8220;During his visit, Admiral Locklear will consult with defense officials in the Philippine government on a range of common security challenges,&#8221; the US embassy in Manila said without elaborating.

Locklear will meet with Armed Forces chief Gen. Emmanuel Bautista and Defense Secretary Voltaire Gazmin. His visit will not be open to the media.

Locklear&#8217;s visit follows his attendance at the recently concluded Shangri-La Dialogue in Singapore where he met with security officials from the region.

Last week, *US Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel reaffirmed Washington&#8217;s commitment to the Mutual Defense Treaty with Manila, now embroiled in a territorial row with China.*

Hagel made the commitment during a meeting with Gazmin on the sidelines of the Shangri-La Dialogue.

The defense department has welcomed Hagel&#8217;s statement and is hopeful that the US will continue backing efforts to maintain freedom of navigation in the Asia Pacific region.

* &#8220;We look forward to the continuous and more active role of the US in contributing to the freedom of navigation in the region,&#8221; *defense department spokesman Peter Galvez told The STAR in a recent interview.

Tensions in the West Philippine Sea mounted last month after China deployed three ships around Ayungin Shoal, within the Philippines&#8217; exclusive economic zone.

The Philippines has protested China&#8217;s illegal deployment of vessels in its territory in violation of international law. The protest, however, fell on deaf ears as China continued to send ships and vessels around the shoal, just 105.77 nautical miles from Palawan.

Latest monitoring by Philippine authorities showed that at least three Chinese ships have remained in the area.

China&#8217;s intrusion is not limited to Ayungin Shoal as Chinese ships continue to patrol the Panatag (Scarborough) Shoal, a Philippine-owned area located 124 nautical miles from the nearest base point in Zambales. &#8211; AP, Alexis Romero

US to block moves to seize control of disputed seas | Headlines, News, The Philippine Star | philstar.com


----------



## Malaya

*China, ASEAN nations discuss South China Sea issue: spokesman*

BEIJING, June 6 (Xinhua) -- Representatives of China and the 10-member Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) recently met and discussed the South China Sea issue, a Foreign Ministry spokesman said Thursday.

The eighth joint work group meeting on implementing the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea (DOC) took place in Bangkok on May 29, spokesman Hong Lei told a daily press briefing.

Hong's comments came after Acting US Assistant Secretary of State Joseph Yun on Wednesday said China and the ASEAN countries made progress during a meeting last week.

Hong did not specify details, but said the meeting was of great significance and recognized the positive progress made in implementing the DOC in 2012, including cooperation in disaster prevention and reduction and maritime ecology.

All parties agreed to fully and effectively implement the DOC and mapped out the work plan for 2013-2014, Hong said.

China, Thailand, Indonesia and Cambodia have raised nearly 10 cooperative proposals like setting up the China-ASEAN maritime emergency rescue hotline, Hong said.

The meeting also looked into how to promote the Code of Conduct of the South China Sea (COC) and enhance its understanding among countries, Hong said.

The meeting agreed to maintain dialogue and negotiations and decided to hold the ninth joint working group meeting in Beijing later this year, Hong added. 

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2013-06/06/c_132436221.htm


----------



## Malaya

*Taiwan hopes to join South China Sea dialogue: MOFA*
2013/06/06 






Taipei, June 6 (CNA) Taiwan looks forward to taking part in a South China Sea-related dialogue and mechanism, and working with other countries in the area to maintain regional peace and stability, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MOFA) said Thursday.

The ministry was responding to remarks made a day earlier by Joseph Yun, the U.S. acting assistant secretary of state for East Asian and Pacific affairs, in which he said the recent diplomatic rift between Taiwan and the Philippines over a fatal shooting has highlighted the importance of formulating a code of conduct for disputes over the South China Sea.

Yun was referring to the shooting death of a Taiwanese fisherman by a Philippine coast guard patrol vessel in the overlapping waters of the two countries' exclusive economic zones May 9. The killing has put the two countries at loggerheads.

Noting that China and the 10-member Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) are expected to begin negotiations on a code of conduct for disputes over the South China Sea, Yun said he sees no reason that other related parties should be exempted from observation of the code of conduct.

Yun made the remarks at a South China Sea conference sponsored by the Center for Strategic and International Studies, a Washington-based think tank.

Responding to Yun's statements, MOFA spokeswoman Anna Kao said all island chains in the South China Sea are the Republic of China's sovereign territory, as are the waters surrounding them.

The ROC is nevertheless willing to shelve disputes and cooperate with neighboring countries in exploring resources in the region, in line with the principles of reciprocity and peaceful solutions to disputes, she said.

"We also hope that the ROC will be invited to participate in dialogue and mechanism related with South China Sea issues," Kao said, adding that Taiwan is more than willing to collaborate with neighboring countries in pursuing regional peace and stability.

On Taiwan-U.S. relations, Kao said the government has been promoting bilateral engagement in a low-key and surprise-free approach since President Ma Ying-jeou assumed office in 2008.

Over the past few years, she said, Taiwan-U.S. dialogue and interaction have been growing smoothly without any glitches. 

Taiwan hopes to join South China Sea dialogue: MOFA | Latest | FOCUS TAIWAN - CNA ENGLISH NEWS


----------



## Malaya

*UNCLOS does not support China's claims, US naval expert says*






By Jojo Malig, ABS-CBNNews.com
Posted at 06/06/2013

MANILA, Philippines - China is rejecting the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) to settle disputes in the West Philippine Sea because Beijing knows its claim is not supported by the international law, a US naval expert said Thursday.

Peter Dutton, a professor of Strategic Studies and director of the China Maritime Studies Institute at the U.S. Naval War College, said at a Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS) conference in Washington, DC, that China has not fully adopted UNCLOS' rules.

"China has refused international law because they know it does not support their claims," he said. "States deviate from international norms when [these] does not meet their objectives and have power to shield selves from non-compliance."

He added that instead of allowing UNCLOS and the International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea (ITLOS) to settle disputes in the region, China has been using non-militarized coercion in the West Philippine Sea since 2008 to stake its claim.

"Not history, not power, but international law should be used to decide issues in the South China Sea," he stressed.

"The most significant strength of an international treaty law is to establish norms and expected behavior," he added.

Dutton said China's use of coercion and force prompted the Philippines to bring its domestic law up to international standards.

Dr. Nguyen Dang Thang of the Vietnam Lawyers' Association told the gathering that there should be no tension in the West Philippine Sea if nations uphold UNCLOS.

*'Constitution for oceans'*

"UNCLOS is a constitution for the oceans," he said.

He added that China cannot selectively use UNCLOS' provisions. "If you apply UNCLOS, you apply it fully," he said.

Thang said that under international law, "There is no clear legal basis for China's claim over the South China Sea."

Henry S. Bensurto, Jr., secretary-general of the Philippine Department of Foreign Affairs' Commission on Maritime and Ocean Affairs, said any management of disputes in the West Philippine Sea must be based on international law.

"International law becomes a common language in the West Philippine Sea, yet the interpretation can differ from state to state," he said.

He added that a "future based on international law is more stable than future based on power or coercion."

"The general rule with UNCLOS is compulsory jurisdiction," he said.
*
Chiang Kai-shek's 9-dash line*

Bensurto also dismissed China's claim on West Philippine Sea, particularly Beijing's 9-dash line map that was created by Chiang Kai-shek and renegade Kuomintang forces in Taiwan. 

"[Under UNCLOS,) you are not supposed to occupy unoccupied features," he said, referring to China's claim. 

"How can you have historical claims to continental shelf? A continental shelf is a modern concept," he added.

Supreme Court Senior Associate Justice Antonio Carpio earlier said China's 9-dash line claim to almost the entire West Philippine Sea violates UNCLOS.

"China's 9-dashed line claim converts the South China Sea into an internal Chinese lake, allowing China to unilaterally appropriate for itself what belongs to other sovereign coastal states, in defiance of UNCLOS," he said.

"China's 9-dashed line claim simply cannot co-exist with UNCLOS &#8211;one kills the other," Carpio said. "To uphold China's 9-dashed line claim is to wipe out centuries of progressing the law of the sea."

Dr. Xinjung Zhang, an associate professor of Public International Law at the Tsinghua University Law School, defended China's stand. 

"China's arguments regarding the Philippines' claim are reasonable based on Article 286 of UNCLOS," he claimed.

*Disputes under ITLOS*

Article 286, however, states that any dispute concerning the interpretation or application of UNCLOS should be to an international court or tribunal, specifically ITLOS. 

"If the court rules in favor of Philippines and China does not accept, the Philippines can use this in negotiations," he said, insisting that Manila and Beijing should just settle their dispute through bilateral talks.

De La Salle University professor Dr. Renato C. De Castro, meanwhile, said the Aquino administration will press on in its bid to have the dispute settled under UNCLOS and not either by force or by bilateral talks.

"Under this administration, the Philippines will not back out from the UN arbitration process," he said.

Bonnie Glaser, the CSIS' senior adviser for Asia, Freeman Chair in China Studies, praised the Philippines for bringing up the issue at an international tribunal under UNCLOS.

"Countries should take their disputes to international courts for settlements," she said.

She also expressed disappointment at the Association of Southeast Asian Nations for remaining silent on the Scarborough Shoal standoff between the Philippines and China last year.

http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/focus/06/06/13/unclos-does-not-support-chinas-claims-us-naval-expert-says


----------



## Malaya

*Amid territorial dispute with China, Philippines turns into showcase site of US warships*






*MANILA, Philippines - Amid its territorial dispute with China, the Philippines has turned into a popular site to showcase the warships of the United States. This year alone, the several US destroyers have visited Philippine shores.*

On Thursday, the US Embassy in Manila said its Navy submarine tender USS Frank Cable (AS 40) and submarine USS Asheville (SSN 758) will arrive in Subic Bay on June 7 and June 8, respectively.

The USS Frank Cable is its second time to visit the country this year.

The US calls such visits &#8220;routine port calls&#8221; but they notably come every time China presses its claims over the Spratly Islands.

But the Chinese warships, and maritime and fishing vessels now &#8220;guarding&#8221; the Ayungin Reef. China has also maintained its &#8220;presence&#8221; at the Panatag (Scarborough) Shoal off Masinloc, Zambales, where Filipino fishermen could not go anymore for fear of harassment or possible arrest or execution for &#8220;intrusion.&#8221;

Earlier, citing the nuclear threat of North Korea, Defense Secretary Voltaire Gazmin and Foreign Affairs Secretary Albert del Rosario said the US military may use the country as a military base in case of &#8220;extreme emergency.&#8221; 

In fact, since January this year US warships that already visited the country include USS Freedom (LCS1), USS Tortuga (LSD46), USS Ohio, USS Decatur, USS Emory S. Land (AS39), USS Blue Ridge USS Stockdale (DDG106), USS Cheyenne (SSN773), USS Guardian (MCM5), which met its demise at Tubbataha Reef, among others.

&#8220;During their visit, the Frank Cable and Asheville will refuel and receive supplies, and the crew will be given opportunities for community service in nearby areas as well as rest and recreation,&#8221; the US embassy said.

The L.Y. Spear-class USS Frank Cable (AS-40) was commissioned in 1980. It is nearly 200 meters long and has a crew of 1,500. The Frank Cable serves as the US 7th Fleet&#8217;s mobile repair and support platform. The ship is named after Frank Taylor Cable, one of the pioneers in the development of submarines for the US Navy. It is homeported in Guam.

Named for the city of Asheville, North Carolina and commissioned in 1991, the USS Asheville is a Los Angeles-class submarine. It is 91 meters long, and has a top speed of 32 knots underwater. The Asheville is homeported in San Diego, California.

Also, US Pacific Command chief Admiral Samuel J. Locklear III arrived in Thursday for a meeting &#8220;with his counterparts.&#8221;

Locklear will stay in the country for two days.

*It must also be noted that defense ministers from the Asia Pacific nations had just met for a security conference in Singapore where it a reported that the US reaffirmed its 62-year-old Mutual Defense Treaty with the Philippines.*

Amid territorial dispute with China, Philippines becomes venue to showcase US warships - InterAksyon.com

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Minjitta

Don't get your hope too high with US help, be prepare to joint all Asian countries to defense Asia from China when US leave Asia.
US are building up the heat in Asia so Asia can destroy her self then US will come back and take Asia with less trouble.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cirr

Another CMS&#65288;CCG&#65289;vessel launched at WCS in Wuhan&#65292;Central China&#65306;














CCG 3103&#65306;

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

A new Type 052C DDG about to join the PLAN East Sea Fleet&#65306;

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cirr

CCG 3210&#65306;

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Eliter

Malaysia invade and occupy the Nansha Islands
&#39532;&#26469;&#35199;&#20122;&#21344;&#39046;&#20013;&#22269;&#21335;&#27801;&#32676;&#23707;&#23707;&#30977;&#24773;&#20917;

1999 &#31800;&#31637;&#30977; Boji Jiao, Erica Reef
1999 &#27014;&#20122;&#26263;&#27801; Yuya Ansha, Investigator Shoal
1986 &#21335;&#28023;&#30977; Nanhai Jiao, Mariveles Reef
1986 &#20809;&#26143;&#20180;&#30977; Guangxingzai Jiao, Ardasier Reef
1983 &#24377;&#20024;&#30977; Danwan Jiao, Swallow Reef

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Fsjal

While the Chinese are building new warships, Phil navy still waits for the second frigate, which is no match for Chinese warships. Also, the Phil marines don't even have proper military outposts. Rather, just old, rusty ships that have been aground.


----------



## HongWu

Fsjal said:


> While the Chinese are building new warships, Phil navy still waits for the second frigate, which is no match for Chinese warships. Also, the Phil marines don't even have proper military outposts. Rather, just old, rusty ships that have been aground.


Philippines needs to stand with an Asia free from the yoke of Western imperialism. Aquino III's mother took some steps in the right direction but her son brought back the colonialist.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zero_wing

HongWu said:


> Philippines needs to stand with an Asia free from the yoke of Western imperialism. Aquino III's mother took some steps in the right direction but her son brought back the colonialist.



We need to stand up to you guys the west is not stealing form us you are so cut the crap and get your medicine


----------



## cirr

CMS(CCG) 1013 launched:

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

@cirr: you post many pic, but can you update info about their spec, equipments... !?


----------



## EastSea

cirr said:


> CMS(CCG) 1013 launched:



If you have benzin, you can run around on sea following rules of free navigation.
But there is big target for our anti-ship missiles division to training to capture goal for firing, .

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zero_wing

Thank you comrade cirr for the intel


----------



## filipino_american

HongWu said:


> Keep begging your colonial masters....



and keep using your Mongol COLONIST'S MAP 



cirr said:


> Another CMS&#65288;CCG&#65289;vessel launched at WCS in Wuhan&#65292;Central China&#65306;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CCG 3103&#65306;





cirr said:


> A new Type 052C DDG about to join the PLAN East Sea Fleet&#65306;



"MADE IN CHINA" ships hmmmm.......

*Very High Quality I suppose*

lmao zedong

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## filipino_american

Fsjal said:


> While the Chinese are building new warships, Phil navy still waits for the second frigate, which is no match for Chinese warships. Also, the Phil marines don't even have proper military outposts. Rather, just old, rusty ships that have been aground.



Wu Mao is that you?



HongWu said:


> Philippines needs to stand with an Asia free from the yoke of Western imperialism. Aquino III's mother took some steps in the right direction but her son brought back the colonialist.



You want Asia free from the yoke of Western imperialism? 

Then destroy the ROOT. Destroy North Korea and the CCP.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Fsjal

filipino_american said:


> Wu Mao is that you?
> 
> 
> 
> You want Asia free from the yoke of Western imperialism?
> 
> Then destroy the ROOT. Destroy North Korea and the CCP.



Zero_wing, what are you doing?



HongWu said:


> After being enslaved by Spanish, Japanese and Americans since the beginning of your history..... they forced your young girls to say "me love you long time big GI"...... is that the best you low IQ primates can come up with?
> 
> 
> First we take back Thitu Island and make Philippines disintegrate into a *tribal regions again*



We already are


----------



## Zero_wing

Oh please you guys are running out of so called logic racist comments or stereotyping in almost every topic in the forum please you don't know anything just what you can find in the interest and your not even using properly. I guess when your country is hitting rock bottom its the only thing you can do laughable

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Bob Ong

China is a modern ugly giant pirate worm. China's strategy is 'what is your is ours, and what is our is solely ours.' If you disagree, our navy will take your natural maritime resources by force'

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Bob Ong

Fsjal said:


> Zero_wing, what are you doing?
> 
> 
> We already are


This false flagger thief here is spreading lies. Crazy Hong Wu is also among them.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zero_wing

Bob Ong said:


> This false flagger thief here is spreading lies. Crazy Hong Wu is also among them.



kala ko ako hehehe hayan mo na yung gagong yun troll monster lang super triper ba trip niya lang yan

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Hawaii's Finest

There's totally going to be a war cuz of some stupid islands that have no people living in them. LOL

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## WuMaoCleverbot

*US senators blast China's use of force in sea disputes*

By Jojo Malig, ABS-CBNnews.com
Posted at 06/13/2013 12:22 AM | Updated as of 06/13/2013 12:35 AM

MANILA, Philippines - *US senators have filed a resolution condemning China's use of threats and force in territorial disputes with other countries.*

Senate Resolution 167, filed on Monday by Senators Robert Menendrez (Democrat, New Jersey), Marco Antonio Rubio (Republican, Florida), and Ben Cardin (Democrat, Maryland), also urges countries contesting ownership of parts of the West Philippine Sea and East China Sea to create and approve a code of conduct to avoid conflicts.

Menendez chairs the US Senate Committee on Foreign Relations, while Rubio is being touted as a possible Republican presidential candidate in the 2016 elections.

The resolution, which has been referred to the Committee on Foreign Relations, cited many dangerous incidents involving Chinese actions in the West Philippine Sea and the East China Sea.

These include Chinese vessels cutting the seismic survey cables of a Vietnamese oil exploration ship in May 2011; Chinese vessels barricading the entrance to the Scarborough Reef lagoon in April 2012; China issuing an official map that defines its contested "9-dash line'' as China's national border; and, since May 8, 2013, Chinese naval and marine surveillance ships maintaining a regular presence in waters around the Second Thomas Shoal, located approximately 105 nautical miles northwest of Palawan.

It also cited a Department of State spokesperson expressing concern in 2012 over China's upgrading of the administrative level of Sansha City in the West Philippine Sea and the establishment of a new military garrison in the contested area.

The resolution added that in January 2013, a Chinese naval ship allegedly fixed its weapons-targeting radar on Japanese vessels near the Senkaku islands, and on April 23, 2013, 8 Chinese marine surveillance ships entered the 12-nautical-mile territorial zone off the Senkaku Islands, further escalating regional tensions.

The senators said Beijing recently took other unilateral steps, including declaring the Senkaku Islands a "core interest", "improperly drawing'' baselines around the Senkaku Islands, and maintaining a military presence around the islands that are under control by Japan.

The resolution is asking the US Senate to condemn "the use of coercion, threats, or force by naval, maritime security, or fishing vessels and military or civilian aircraft in the South China Sea and the East China Sea to assert disputed maritime or territorial claims or alter the status quo."

It urged all parties in the disputed areas to exercise self-restraint to prevent any acts in that would escalate tensions.

The resolution, which highlighted US interests in ensuring freedom of navigation and overflight in the Asia-Pacific, urged member-states of ASEAN and China to develop a code of conduct of parties in the West Philippine Sea.

It said claimants in the West Philippine Sea should resolve disputes through processes that adhere to international law, including via international arbitration.

The resolution also supports the alliances forged by the US Armed Forces with other countries in the region to ensure peace.

US senators blast China's use of force in sea disputes | ABS-CBN News

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Psyops

Those are our islands and we are patrolling them. We do what we want, when we want, how we want. Why? Because we are mighty China. That's why!!!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Malaya

filipino_american said:


> Wu Mao is that you?
> 
> You want Asia free from the yoke of Western imperialism?
> 
> Then destroy the ROOT. Destroy North Korea and the CCP.


The 50 Cent Party are Internet commentators (&#32593;&#32476;&#35780;&#35770;&#21592;, &#32178;&#32097;&#35413;&#35542;&#21729;, w&#462;ngluò pínglùn yuán) hired by the government of the People's Republic of China (both local and central) or the Communist Party to post comments favorable towards party policies in an attempt to shape and sway public opinion on various Internet message boards.[1][2] The commentators are said to be paid fifty cent of Renminbi for every post that either steers a discussion away from anti-party or sensitive content on domestic websites, bulletin board systems, and chatrooms,[3] or that advances the Communist party line.

*Salary*

The English version of China-based Global Times reported that Changsha Publicity Department's Internet commentators were paid 0.5 yuan per post, which is considered as the origin of the term "50 Cent Party". However, according to the local party-building website, *the basic salary of such commentators was 600 yuan* in 2006.

In 2010, the Internet commentators from Hengyang Municipal Committee Party School were paid 0.1 yuan per post and less than 100 yuan's monthly bonus.

A county-level discipline inspection commission's Internet commentator from Hunan Province told Global Times that a 500 word article is worth 40 yuan on local websites and 200 yuan on national sites.

Paid Internet Chinese trolls

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

Three newly-launched vessels built at GJS&#65292;including CMS&#65288;CCG&#65289;1118&#65292; about to join the law enforcement force&#65306;

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

Bubr ploughing waves in the SCS soon&#65306;


























These shots were taken at *Longxue Shipbuilding Base* in Guangzhou where more Zubrs will be built in the next couple of years&#12290;


----------



## cirr

CCG 3175 receiving a new coat of paint&#65306;











Ready to give the baboons and monkeys a hard chsase in the SCS&#12290;

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Inoyasha2

EastSea said:


> Fake products made in China, it will be clashed like airplane MA60 in Myanmar.



Was the same accident at Kupang, Eastern Indonesia a several days ago.



> *Merpati MA60 crash lands in Indonesia*
> Jun. 10, 2013 Karen Walker
> 
> A Merpati Nusantara Airlines MA60 turboprop made a hard landing at El Tari airport in Kupang, Indonesia, Monday, seriously damaging the aircraft and injuring some passengers.
> 
> According to Channel NewsAsia, officials said there were 52 people onboard, including crew. Between two and eight people were said to have sustained minor injuries according to different local reports.
> 
> Merpati operates 14 Chinese-made Xian Aircraft Industrial Corp. MA60s.
> 
> A Merpati MA60 crashed in 2011 near Kaimana Airport in Indonesia, killing all 21 passengers and six crew aboard.





taken from *atwonline.com*


_damn cant post the pic yet..._

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Soryu

cirr said:


> Bubr ploughing waves in the SCS soon&#65306;
> 
> These shots were taken at *Longxue Shipbuilding Base* in Guangzhou where more Zubrs will be built in the next couple of years&#12290;


LOL, at before LiaoNing's commission, Chinese keep spout out how mighty of China and how scary for Vietnam, Philippine ships in SCS, but then ... the Casino just for show off 

Zubr's not enough capable endurance for long range in SCS, if you want to play with this toys, it'll better for ECS - Japan sea, but, of course, PRC has no balls to play rough with Japan-USA. 


Inoyasha2 said:


> Was the same accident at Kupang, Eastern Indonesia a several days ago.
> 
> 
> 
> taken from *atwonline.com*
> 
> _damn cant post the pic yet..._


Well, careful with Chinese products, it's good way to live.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zero_wing

Psyops said:


> Those are our islands and we are patrolling them. We do what we want, when we want, how we want. Why? Because we are mighty China. That's why!!!



And yet you sign unclos and yet your still wrong and your the only one i mean all of you chinese believe that crap and no one else

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Fsjal

cirr said:


> Three newly-launched vessels built at GJS&#65292;including CMS&#65288;CCG&#65289;1118&#65292; about to join the law enforcement force&#65306;



Are water cannons necessary? 
Just in case...


----------



## auspice

Illegal fishing, poaching, grabbing, robbing, stealing, polluting, bullying, gun-toting, spying, sabotaging, bribing, hacking, counterfeiting... name anything evil, China has it all.

This greedy giant crocodile is a rogue state run by gun-toting gangsters. Truly, EVIL China is a grave danger to world peace and stability.

We look forward to the hanging to death of these gangster idiotic Chinese leaders and generals. People who live by the gun will die by the gun.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Psyops

auspice said:


> Illegal fishing, poaching, grabbing, robbing, stealing, polluting, bullying, gun-toting, spying, sabotaging, bribing, hacking, counterfeiting... name anything evil, China has it all.
> 
> This greedy giant crocodile is a rogue state run by gun-toting gangsters. Truly, EVIL China is a grave danger to world peace and stability.
> 
> We look forward to the hanging to death of these gangster idiotic Chinese leaders and generals. People who live by the gun will die by the gun.



 I feel your helplessness in your post.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## soaringeagle

Relax, no need to flatter yourself, your small Islands kingdom is not even of any significant interest to CN.



auspice said:


> Illegal fishing, poaching, grabbing, robbing, stealing, polluting, bullying, gun-toting, spying, sabotaging, bribing, hacking, counterfeiting... name anything evil, China has it all.
> 
> This greedy giant crocodile is a rogue state run by gun-toting gangsters. Truly, EVIL China is a grave danger to world peace and stability.
> 
> We look forward to the hanging to death of these gangster idiotic Chinese leaders and generals. People who live by the gun will die by the gun.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Fsjal

auspice said:


> Illegal fishing, poaching, grabbing, robbing, stealing, polluting, bullying, gun-toting, spying, sabotaging, bribing, hacking, counterfeiting... name anything evil, China has it all.
> 
> This greedy giant crocodile is a rogue state run by gun-toting gangsters. Truly, EVIL China is a grave danger to world peace and stability.
> 
> We look forward to the hanging to death of these gangster idiotic Chinese leaders and generals. People who live by the gun will die by the gun.



Stop lecturing yourself and deal with it


----------



## Zero_wing

Fsjal said:


> Stop lecturing yourself and deal with it



Really now you run out of trolls post?


----------



## filipino_american

*China invoked UNCLOS vs Japan but CHINA ignores the Philippines UNCLOS claim against China.
*
(Reuters) - The United Nations is planning to consider later this year the scientific validity of a claim by China that a group of disputed islands in the East China Sea are part of its territory, although Japan says the world body should not be involved.

Tensions over the uninhabited islands - located near rich fishing grounds and potentially huge oil-and-gas reserves - flared after Japan's government purchased them from a private Japanese owner in September, sparking violent anti-Japanese protests across China and a military standoff.

Taiwan also claims the islands, known as the Diaoyu islands in China, the Senkaku islands in Japan and Tiaoyutai in Taiwan.

In a submission to the U.N. Commission on the Limits of the Continental Shelf, China claims that the continental shelf in the East China Sea is a natural prolongation of China's land territory and that it includes the disputed islands.

Under the U.N. convention, a country can extend its 200-nautical-mile economic zone if it can prove that the continental shelf is a natural extension of its land mass. The U.N. commission assesses the scientific validity of claims, but any disputes have to be resolved between states, not by the commission.

China said the "Diaoyu Dao upfold zone" - the islands - is located between the East China Sea shelf basin and the Okinawa Trough. "The Okinawa Trough is the natural termination of the continental shelf of (the East China Sea)," it said.

---

China invoked UNCLOS vs Japan but CHINA ignores the Philippines UNCLOS claim against China.

China invokes UNCLOS in claiming sovereignty over the Diaoyu/Senkaku Islands.

*Are the CHINESE CRAZY?????? They say

1. Diaoyu/Senkaku - UNCLOS can be used
2. Scarborough/Spraltys - UNCLOS is ILLEGGAL

The Chinese government is contradicting itself.

China&#8217;s move to use Unclos in its dispute with Japan should bolster the Philippines&#8217; position to settle its own territorial conflict with China with the international body.

CHINA MUST BE CRAZY!*

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## filipino_american

Psyops said:


> Those are our islands and we are patrolling them. We do what we want, when we want, how we want. Why? Because we are mighty China. That's why!!!



US *STEALTH* submarines are patrolling those islands too following your MADE IN CHINA BOATS *unnoticed*! yeah!

US Aircraft Carriers are also constantly there guarding the Philippines.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Fsjal

filipino_american said:


> US *STEALTH* submarines are patrolling those islands too following your MADE IN CHINA BOATS *unnoticed*! yeah!
> 
> US Aircraft Carriers are also constantly there guarding the Philippines.



Meanwhile, Chinese submarines patrol Scarborough Shoal and Chinese UAVs spy on Philippine marine bases


----------



## cirr

CCG 3210&#65306;







CCG 3102&#65306;

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

Tiny HPS is brimming with PLAN and CCG assets&#65306;




































That makes a total of 14 vessels&#65292;excluding those under construction in the two covered berths&#12290;

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## nufix

cirr said:


> Tiny HPS is brimming with PLAN and CCG assets&#65306;



I am impressed by the size of these ship, given the role of these ships that is mainly for Coastal Patrol and Guard. How are the specs sir? The Tonnage and overall length.


----------



## Malaya

*Global protest set at UN against China expansionism*

INQUIRER.net US Bureau
Saturday, June 15th, 2013

NEW YORKA U.S. group critical of Chinas claim on islands off the Philippines will hold a protest rally at the United Nations headquarters here on July 24.

The U.S. Pinoys for Good Governance (USP4GG) is denouncing Chinas latest incursion in Ayungin Reef, located just 105 nautical miles from Palawan.

Rep. Walden Bello of the Akbayan partylist announced that his group is joining the July 24 mass action in the Philippines and will encourage its supporters throughout the world to join in global actions to denounce Chinas provocative actions in the Ayungin Reef.

China seized the Philippines Mischief Reef in 1994, then our Scarborough Shoal last year, stated Loida Nicolas Lewis, the national chair of USP4GG and former national chair of the National Federation of Filipino American Associations (NaFFAA).

This year, China is set to invade and occupy the Ayungin Reef. We refuse to accept Chinas expansionist agenda.

*Sansha anniversary*

Lewis explained that July 24 marks the first anniversary of Chinas establishment of the Sansha City Prefecture, which Beijing mandated to have jurisdiction over more than two million square kilometers of the South China Sea (West Philippine Sea), including islands and reefs in the Spratlys that are within the 200-mile exclusive economic zone of the Philippines.

The Philippine Department of Foreign Affairs (DFA) protested the creation of the Sansha Prefecture, after learning that its jurisdiction covered the Kalayaan Island Group in the Spratlys, which is an integral part of the Philippine territory falling under the municipality of Kalayaan in Palawan province.

Sansha City has been a subject of a Philippine protest as its administrative jurisdiction encompasses Philippine territory and maritime zones in the West Philippine Sea, DFA spokesman Raul Hernandez said.

The USP4GG said the July 24 action at the United Nations would include simultaneous town hall meetings to discuss the China threat in Filipino communities throughout the United States. It would also call on the U.S. communities of the claimant countries whose territories are being invaded by Chinese ships from the Sansha Prefecture. All patriotic Filipinos should join in the July 4 denunciation of Chinas imperialist activities in the South China/West Philippine Sea, the group stated.

*Gross violation*

Philippine Secretary of Foreign Affairs Albert del Rosario asserted that the creation of the Sansha Prefecture was in gross violation of the Declaration of Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea (DOC), a ten-year-old document that aims to deter use of force among countries claiming resource-rich territories in the South China Sea, including China, Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei, Taiwan and the Philippines.

Beijing announced that beginning January 1 Chinese naval ships from the Sansha Prefecture would begin patrolling the waters in the South China Sea under its jurisdiction.

On May 8, Philippine maritime surveillance vessels spotted three Chinese naval ships surrounding the Ayungin Reef (Second Thomas Shoal), which is located just 105 nautical miles from Palawan, well within the 200-mile exclusive economic zone of the Philippines. The Ayungin Reef is guarded by a Philippine marine detachment on board the BRP Sierra Madre, which is permanently moored on the reef to protect it.

We will not allow China to establish a blockade to prevent the Philippine Navy from replenishing the Philippine marine base at Ayungin with personnel and materials, declared Ted Laguatan, spokesman of the USP4GG. We support Philippine Defense Secretary Voltaire Gazmins vow to defend Ayungin to the last soldier standing.

The Ayungin Reef is considered the gateway to the Recto Bank, which the U.S. Energy Information Agency (EIA) estimates to contain 2.5 billion barrels of oil and 25.5 trillion cubic feet of natural gas. In his July 25, 2011 State of the Nation Address (SONA), Pres. Benigno S. Aquino III declared: What is ours is ours; setting foot on Recto Bank is no different from setting foot on Recto Avenue.

*UNCLOS claim*

On January 22, the Philippines formally filed its claim against China before the United Nations Arbitral Tribunal under Article 287 and Annex VII of the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS). The Philippines asserted that Chinas nine-dash line claim that encompasses virtually the entire South China Sea/West Philippine Sea is contrary to UNCLOS and is thus unlawful.

The Philippines also charged that within the maritime area encompassed by the nine-dash line, China has also laid claim to, occupied and built structures on certain submerged banks, reefs and low tide elevations that do not qualify as islands under UNCLOS, but are parts of the Philippine continental shelf, or the international seabed and has interfered with the lawful exercise by the Philippines of its rights within its legitimate maritime zones, as well as to the aforementioned features and their surrounding waters.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Fsjal

^BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA^

Sympathizers. No one will hear them


----------



## Malaya



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Fsjal

^nice propaganda^

But again, like what I said, no ONE WILL HEAR THEM!


----------



## Globenim

"Global protest against China"

speak 

"Handful of Pinoys living overseas throwing some tantrum"

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## filipino_american

Fsjal said:


> Meanwhile, Chinese submarines patrol Scarborough Shoal and Chinese UAVs spy on Philippine marine bases



As I've told you US STEALTH submarines are there unnoticed. US spy planes as well are there. Subic bay which is very close to Scarborough hosts a *SECRET US BATTLE READY TEAM*. tee hee



Fsjal said:


> ^nice propaganda^
> 
> But again, like what I said, no ONE WILL HEAR THEM!



Hahaha, how many countries support your 9 dash claim??? Can you name at least 3 other than ROUGE NORTH KOREA, China's best friend.

The truth is NO COUNTRY SUPPORTS you FANTASY 9 dash claim

l*mao zedong!*


----------



## faithfulguy

filipino_american said:


> US *STEALTH* submarines are patrolling those islands too following your MADE IN CHINA BOATS *unnoticed*! yeah!
> 
> US Aircraft Carriers are also constantly there guarding the Philippines.



US should not be fighting a war for Philippines. Asian people should take care of Asian's own problems.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zero_wing

faithfulguy said:


> US should not be fighting a war for Philippines. Asian people should take care of Asian's own problems.



You mean i can bully all the nations i want to because am bigger than all of you smaller countries and correction we did not ask America to fight for us we just ask if America will honor the MDT which they say they will but they never get in for us they made it clear they want this thing to be solve peacefully by International law which we have been doing its only china and taiwan who is the problem here you people are too greedy and steal and poach around area and its not just America you people angered off Japanese, Vietnam and us (you jerks and your mainland counter parts) and concerns countries Indonesia and Malaysia and Singapore so as far as Asians goes you got Philippines, Japan and Vietnam and also i forgot India! now the US and the European Union as well (trade troubles) man angered off a lot of countries your public enemy no.1 of the plant keep it up

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Fsjal

filipino_american said:


> As I've told you US STEALTH submarines are there unnoticed. US spy planes as well are there. Subic bay which is very close to Scarborough hosts a *SECRET US BATTLE READY TEAM*. tee hee
> 
> 
> 
> Hahaha, how many countries support your 9 dash claim??? Can you name at least 3 other than ROUGE NORTH KOREA, China's best friend.
> 
> The truth is NO COUNTRY SUPPORTS you FANTASY 9 dash claim
> 
> l*mao zedong!*



Well then Subic Base will be a target for DF-21C MRBM, CJ-10 cruise missiles and Chinese H-6 bombers. 
How about Clark? Does it have a secret American battalion there? If do, then Clark would be a another good target.


----------



## KAL-EL

Fsjal said:


> Well then Subic Base will be a target for DF-21C MRBM, CJ-10 cruise missiles and Chinese H-6 bombers.
> How about Clark? Does it have a secret American battalion there? If do, then Clark would be a another good target.



Yes they can be targeted, just as Chinese bases can also easily be targeted. it works both ways my friend. Please try to be realistic pertaining to both sides.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Soryu

Fsjal said:


> Well then Subic Base will be a target for DF-21C MRBM, CJ-10 cruise missiles and Chinese H-6 bombers.
> How about Clark? Does it have a secret American battalion there? If do, then Clark would be a another good target.



The false flagger show his true color and flag now, but still is the same in thought, lol...

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Fsjal

KAL-EL said:


> Yes they can be targeted, just as Chinese bases can also easily be targeted. it works both ways my friend. Please try to be realistic pertaining to both sides.



Well, the submarine base in Hainan is a potential target. The thing is, the US needs to blow it up by using bunker buster bombs, which means that the plane must fly into Chinese airspace, which will be risky, but success rate could be 50-60% (depends on plane and the Chinese SAM systems stationed in the base)


----------



## filipino_american

faithfulguy said:


> US should not be fighting a war for Philippines. Asian people should take care of Asian's own problems.



And China is the *most hated *Asian country by Asians. The US is the *SOLE SUPERPOWER*. The US is backed by NATO, JAPAN, South Korea, Taiwan, Australia, Thailand, and Indonesia. The US is *ANTI-COMMUIST*. The US by TREATY has to defend the Philippines. Too bad for SUPER POWER WANNABE CHINA.



Fsjal said:


> Well then Subic Base will be a target for DF-21C MRBM, CJ-10 cruise missiles and Chinese H-6 bombers.
> How about Clark? Does it have a secret American battalion there? If do, then Clark would be a another good target.



lol MADE IN CHINA products???? *Quality is not good*. hahahahah.

The CHINESE are way way way inferior to American Military. You attack the US, you attack NATO and the world. China will be alone in the south china sea.


----------



## Soryu

*Vietnam modern fighter in Spartly Islands:*


----------



## filipino_american

*Vietnam Supports UNCLOS

VN's statement at UN meeting on UNCLOS

(VGP - 12/06/2013) - Viet Nam&#8217;s Permanent Representative to the United Nations Ambassador Le Hoai Trung took the floor at the 23 rd meeting of State Parties to the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea, which is taking place in New York from June 10-14.*

The following is the full text of Ambassador Trung&#8217;s statement. 

&#8220;Mr. President, 
Distinguished Delegates,

&#8220;First of all, on behalf of the Delegation of Viet Nam, I wish to convey our warmest congratulation to you for being elected as President of the Twenty-Third Meeting of the States Parties to the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS). I strongly believe that with your vast experience and commitment, you will lead this important Meeting to great success. My Delegation wishes to express our thanks to the UN Legal Counsel, Madame Patricia O&#8217;Brien for her continued attention and contribution to the promotion and implementation of the UNCLOS. Viet Nam takes this opportunity to warmly congratulate Ecuador, Swaziland and Timor-Leste on becoming States Parties to the UNCLOS. 

&#8220;My Government highly appreciates the efforts to handle the increasing workload of the International Sea-bed Authority, the International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea and the Commission on Limit of the Continental Shelf. In the past year, the International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea has been able to manifest its role in the consideration of cases brought before it, made important judgments and applied the provisional measures in conformity with the UNCLOS. We welcome the decision of the Commission on Limit of the Continental Shelf to increase the number of meetings and the working time of each session to expedite the consideration of submissions made by States Parties. My Government encourages the Commission to continue to improve its methodology of work and make timely recommendations on measures that States Parties should take to help the Commission fulfill effectively its heavy workload. 

&#8220;Mr. President, 
Distinguished Delegates,

&#8220;The debate on the report by the United Nations Secretary-General relating to the implementation of the UNCLOS is an important opportunity for the States Parties to provide information and exchange views on the issues emerging from the implementation of the UNCLOS, draw out good lessons or experiences in dealing with problems and challenges and promoting the goals and principles enshrined in the Convention. 

&#8220;Viet Nam is a coastal state on the East Sea (or the South China Sea ), a semi-closed sea. Most of the East Sea&#8217;s coastal states, including Viet Nam, are developing countries and States Parties to the UNCLOS. Incomes generated from the use and exploitation of this sea make important contribution to the economies of these coastal states. Therefore, the maintenance of peace, security and cooperation for sustainable use and development of the East Sea on the basis of the UNCLOS are exceptionally important interests of the coastal states. To promote these interests, the ASEAN countries and China signed the Declaration on Conducts of Parties in the South China Sea in 2002, under the framework of which a number of cooperative projects have been discussed, such as exchange of information and data on marine scientific research, joint search and rescue of people in distress at sea, joint researches on marine bio-diversity and developing a Code of Conduct in this sea. 

&#8220;Just like other regions of the world, in the East Sea, fishing is a traditional means of living of hundreds of millions of people, and many of them are the poor coastal communities. Providing safe and stable conditions for fishermen when they go out to the sea to earn for their living are responsibilities for all governments. In recent years, the East Sea witnessed numerous incidents whereas fishermen, operating in their traditional fishing grounds, which may fall within persistent disputes on territorial and maritime entitlement, were harassed, arrested and detained or even became victims of the use of arms. Pending solutions for the disputes on territorial and maritime entitlement, the UNCLOS has provisions requesting the States Parties concerned to negotiate for provisional arrangements aimed at promoting optimum exploitation of the living resources in safe and sustainable conditions. To this end, the concerned States Parties need to cooperate in good faith and may consider mobilizing the technical assistance of appropriate international specialized agencies. Conducting unilateral coercive actions, such as imposing fishing bans or using military or para-military ships to enforce the domestic laws in disputed areas shall only further complicate the situation, in contravention of the purposes and principles of the UNCLOS. 

&#8220;Finally, Mr. President and Delegates,

&#8220;Complying with its obligations under the UNCLOS, in 2012, Viet Nam promulgated the Law on Maritime Zones of Viet Nam , which took effect on January 1, 2013. The Law sets out the principles to define the limits and the legal regime of the maritime zones of Viet Nam, the specific authority of the Vietnamese agencies in charge of managing and monitoring all the activities conducted by individuals and entities in Viet Nam&#8217;s maritime zones and dealing with violations of the Law. The Law also stipulates the principles governing international cooperation as well as dispute settlements. The provisions of the Law are aimed at protecting and promoting the legitimate rights and interests of Viet Nam and other countries in accordance with the UNCLOS. Following the provisions of the Law and the UNCLOS, the Government of Viet Nam will continue to improve and implement the National Overall Plan for Sustainable Marine Economic Development, including stepping international cooperation to address the issues of common regional and global concerns in the oceans and seas. 

&#8220;Thank you for your attention&#8221;.

http://www.vietnamembassy-arabsaudi.org/en/news_object_view?newsPath=/vnemb.vn/tin_hddn/ns130613152339

-----------------------------------------

UNCLOS will bring peace in the SCS

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Malaya

*PHL Navy welcomes Indian Navy officers*






*The Philippine Navy (PN) welcomes the Indian Navy (IN) ships at South Harbor, Manila, as they arrived for a five-day goodwill visit from June 12-16. Under the command of Rear Admiral Ajit Kumar, are the INS Saptura, a Shivalik-class stealth multi-role frigate, INS Shakti (A57), a Deepak-class fleet tanker, INS Ranvijay (D55), a Rajput class destroyer, and INS Kirch (P62), a Kora class corvette. NPAO*


----------



## Malaya

*Philippines has 'contingency plans' to defend isles*

By Ronron Calunsod, Kyodo News

MANILA, Philippines - The Philippines has "contingency plans" in place to defend disputed territories in the South China Sea, a top security official said Thursday.

"We have contingency plans for that. We are ready," National Security Council deputy chief Vicente Agdamag said at an annual forum organized by the Philippine Air Force.

The retired Navy officer did not disclose any details of the plans in his remarks, which came one day after President Benigno Aquino urged other countries to respect his country's territorial sovereignty and vowed not to "back down from any challenge."

But Agdamag said the Philippines still needs to improve its capabilities "for surveillance, monitoring, transport, mobilization and reaction" in order to forge a "credible defense capability to protect our maritime and strategic interests."

"We are recommending that we commit to increase our investment for defense from 0.5 percent to 1 percent of the GDP (gross domestic product)," he said.

He added the Philippines must in the meantime enhance its security alliance with the United States.

Tensions remain high between Manila and Beijing due to the continuing presence of Chinese vessels at the disputed Scarborough Shoal and the Second Thomas Shoal in the South China Sea.

China claims virtually the entire South China Sea, a major commercial sea lane with rich marine resources and believed to contain large deposits of oil and natural gas.

Aside from the Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan are also laying claim over some territories in the sea.

China and the Philippines began strongly asserting their respective claims in 2010 after Chinese vessels tried to stop a Philippine energy surveillance team from conducting its exploration activities at the disputed Reed Bank in March of that year.

Despite budget constraints, the Philippine government has allocated a budget of 75 billion pesos (almost $1.8 billion) for national defense over the next five years.

Defense Secretary Voltaire Gazmin said at the same forum that with this money, the air force, for example, should be able to acquire "potent and dependable assets and platforms."

Air force chief Lauro Catalino dela Cruz said there is already a recommendation to acquire 12 new fighter aircraft, three medium-lift aircraft, two light-lift aircraft, three radar systems for use at the western part of the country facing the South China Sea, eight combat utility helicopters and 10 attack helicopters.

He said FA-50 fighter aircraft, which may be sourced from South Korea, Italy or Sweden, could be acquired by mid-2015.

"Part of territorial defense is being able to go to that particular place at the shortest and fastest time. With the technology right now, it can only be done by that aircraft. That aircraft has the range, the speed and the capability," he said.

In October 2005, the Philippines decommissioned its F-5 jets, effectively losing capability to deal with external threats.

The Philippine Navy is also set to boost its patrol capabilities in the disputed areas with the expected arrival in August of the country's second battle-ready Hamilton-class cutter from the United States.

While building up its military, Agdamag said the Philippines must also pursue healthy and friendly relations with China and "work closely with regional partners" to be able to shape a "benign China that respects the world order and the global and regional commons."

He said this would allow the Philippines to "buy time" to grow further its economy and expand its military capabilities, citing 10 years as the minimum for a sustained economic growth of 7 percent-8 percent "to grow our capability upgrade programs."

Philippines has 'contingency plans' to defend isles | ABS-CBN News


----------



## Malaya

*Philippines to Acquire Israeli Missiles*






*In the midst of a territorial dispute with China in the Western Philippine Sea, the state is interested in procuring missile systems from Rafael and IMI*

In the wake of the increased tension with China over a territorial dispute in the western Philippine Sea, the Philippine newspaper Manila Standard is reporting the Philippine government is planning to procure guided antiaircraft systems from Israel.

According to the newspaper, the missiles and launch systems that are being considered are produced by Rafael and Israel Military Industries (IMI), and Philippine Secretary of Defense Voltaire Gazmin is expected to arrive in Israel this week in order to close the details of the deal. The Philippine source who conveyed the information to the newspaper claimed that once an agreement has been concluded, the systems could reach the state within three to six months.

Efforts are underway in the Philippines to upgrade the state's military capabilities, which includes the procurement of new aircraft and naval vessels, and the state intends to procure additional measures and products in the framework of government-to-government deals.

Philippines to Acquire Israeli Missiles


----------



## Fsjal

filipino_american said:


> And China is the *most hated *Asian country by Asians. The US is the *SOLE SUPERPOWER*. The US is backed by NATO, JAPAN, South Korea, Taiwan, Australia, Thailand, and Indonesia. The US is *ANTI-COMMUIST*. The US by TREATY has to defend the Philippines. Too bad for SUPER POWER WANNABE CHINA.
> 
> 
> 
> lol MADE IN CHINA products???? *Quality is not good*. hahahahah.
> 
> The CHINESE are* way way way inferior to American Military*. You attack the US, you attack NATO and the world. China will be alone in the south china sea.



Useless troll. The Chinese are catching up. They are only 10 years behind.

Anyway, Philippines is 30-40 years behind China


----------



## Eliter

China fisherman are destroying coral reef to look for giant clam.

16 Jun 2013,Meiji Jiao(&#32654;&#27982;&#30977-Mischief Reef,Nansha Islands-Spratly Islands


----------



## Zero_wing

chinese imperialism at work

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Fsjal

How about the Philippines?

What are your marines doing? Swimming?


----------



## Zero_wing

Fsjal said:


> How about the Philippines?
> 
> What are your marines doing? Swimming?



what running out troll post troll face?


----------



## cirr

CCG&#8216;s standard issue&#65311;

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

Ready to ramming on SCS.


----------



## Soryu

DN-2000 series will come sea soon, just wait and see

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## VietHome

Soryu said:


> DN-2000 series will come sea soon, just wait and see


It is laid down and operational already 






btw, here is a rough layout

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Soryu

VietHome said:


> It is laid down and operational already
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> btw, here is a rough layout



Well, I mean fully commission in SCS. Just saw Pics on MP.
Was it commission or just trial!? FB was down, so I can't go to Comdare commissar page to asking.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Malaya

*Phl, US troops to hold drills near Panatag*
By Jaime Laude (The Philippine Star) | June 19, 2013 






MANILA, Philippines - Naval forces of the Philippines and the United States are set to conduct joint exercises next week in the waters of Zambales near Panatag Shoal, an area claimed by the Philippines which Chinese ships have occupied.

*Next weeks joint naval exercises will be just 20 nautical miles from Panatag Shoal,* a senior security official who declined to be named said.

The Philippine Navy is sending the BRP Gregorio del Pilar along with smaller ships to the joint naval maneuver called Cooperation Afloat Readiness Training or CARAT. Philippine Coast Guard vessels will also join CARAT. The naval exercise is from June 27 to July 2.

The joint exercise will involve amphibious landing as well as humanitarian activities in coastal areas in Northern Luzon.

Panatag Shoal, located just 124 nautical miles off the coast of Zambales, is now under Chinas de facto control. Philippine vessels temporarily abandoned the area supposedly to ease tensions with China after a botched arrest of Chinese poachers. Since the departure of Philippine forces, Chinese gunboats and surveillance vessels have been guarding the shoal round-the-clock to keep Filipino fishermen at bay.

Ahead of the CARAT launching, US Secretary of the Navy Ray Mabus met yesterday with defense and military officials at Camp Aguinaldo led by Defense Secretary Voltaire Gazmin, AFP chief Gen. Emmanuel Bautista and Navy chief Vice Admiral Jose Luis Alano.

The meeting reportedly focused on regional security issues and on Philippine-US defense and military relations, the defense department said. Mabus met with the Philippine officials for nearly an hour.

Mabus, accompanied by US Ambassador Harry Thomas, declined to grant media interview after the meeting.

The representatives from the two departments discussed security issues in the Asia-Pacific region, modernization efforts and the USs commitment to provide humanitarian assistance in times of disasters and calamities, a statement from the Department of National Defense said.

The US embassy, meanwhile, said Mabus three-day visit was reflective of the importance the US holds for its strong and enduring relationship with the Philippines.

*As we rebalance to the Pacific, our alliance with the Philippines has never been more important than it is today. I look forward to exploring opportunities to work with the Philippine Armed Forces to build greater maritime capacity and increase security and stability in the region,* the US embassy quoted Mabus as describing his visit to the country.

Thomas, when asked if the maritime issue with China was discussed or if the US is ready to aid the Philippines in a confrontation with China, said he does not comment on hypothetical scenarios.

*We want to ensure freedom of navigation, no economic coercion and these sea lanes are open and it is important for all of us that that we need to adhere to the code of conduct,* he said.

We discussed these things on the table. As we have said, we always stand by our treaty commitment. The question is hypothetical and I think nobody wants to go to war. We want peace, Thomas said.

Phl, US troops to hold drills near Panatag | Headlines, News, The Philippine Star | philstar.com


----------



## Malaya

*Phl, China stand firm on territorial claims*
By Pia Lee-Brago (The Philippine Star) | Updated June 19, 2013 






MANILA, Philippines - The Philippines and China are standing firm on their respective positions on maritime territorial disputes but are committed to keeping peace in the region and improving bilateral relations.

This was stressed by delegates of the two countries to the 19th Philippines-China Foreign Ministry Consultations (FMC) in Beijing held last June 14.

In the meeting, Philippine and Chinese representatives discussed developments in bilateral relations between the two countries, and how they could further strengthen cooperation in trade, defense and security, socio-cultural and people-to-people exchanges, among others.

The officials also witnessed the Exchange of Instruments of Ratification of the Philippines-China Consular Agreement. This clarifies procedures and defines time frames to better protect and provide assistance to Filipino and Chinese nationals in each other&#8217;s country.

Foreign Affairs Under-secretary for policy Evan Garcia and Chinese Vice Foreign Minister Liu Zhenmin led the Philippine and Chinese delegations, respectively.

The foreign ministry consultations were followed by a courtesy call by the Philippine delegation, led by Garcia, on Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi.

In the same event, the two sides stressed the need to promote mutual trust as well as cooperation in achieving goals beneficial to both countries.

Manila also strongly asked China to refrain from dictating what actions the Philippines can exercise within its own maritime domain.

Last month, the Department of Foreign Affairs (DFA) said the rotation as well as positioning of soldiers in disputed areas held by the Philippines - particularly in Ayungin Shoal - should not be questioned by China because such moves were part of Manila&#8217;s sovereign and humanitarian duties.

The DFA issued the statement following Chinese ambassador Ma Keqing&#8217;s raising concerns before Defense Secretary Voltaire Gazmin over Manila&#8217;s setting up of structures in Ayungin Shoal.

*&#8220;The Philippines exercises jurisdiction and sovereign rights over its exclusive economic zone (EEZ) and continental shelf (CS) in the West Philippine Sea and has all the right to undertake lawful activities within its maritime domain without any interference or objection by any other state,&#8221; *DFA spokesman Raul Hernandez said.

*&#8220;China is not in a position to dictate on what the Philippines can do within its maritime domain,&#8221; *Hernandez said. The DFA also urged China to withdraw and leave the Philippines EEZ and continental shelf.

Phl, China stand firm on territorial claims | Headlines, News, The Philippine Star | philstar.com

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Malaya




----------



## Malaya

*Time for a South China Sea Council*
by Scott J. Shackelford
Assistant Professor of Business Law and Ethics, Indiana University, Kelley School of Business

06/18/2013 

On the face of it, there seems to be little similarly between the Arctic and the South China Sea. The Arctic, after all, is ice-covered, limiting navigation at least for now, and the Arctic Circle is home to only some 4 million people, whereas the South China Sea is the second most used sea-lane in the world and is bordered by 10 nations with a combined population of approximately 1.9 billion. But dig deeper and similarities multiply. Both areas, for example, contain significant resources, and as a result are confronting territorial disputes. Yet while the Arctic States have been able to keep the peace and move toward sustainably developing an area that could be home to 25 percent of the world's undiscovered oil reserves through the regional Arctic Council, the South China Sea has been described as a "powder keg." The time has come to apply the lessons of the Arctic and form a South China Sea Council (SCSC).

The Arctic Council was established in 1996 as a forum for promoting cooperation between the Arctic bordering states, which include Canada, Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway, Russia, Sweden, and the United States. The original aims were modest, including conducting joint scientific studies on climate change, petroleum drilling, and Arctic shipping. It was not until 2011 that the first binding treaty came into effect involving search and rescue. Now, though, the importance of the Arctic Council has reached a tipping point. Last month, the Council met and admitted five Asian states as observers, including Japan, India, China, South Korea, and Singapore, with the EU's application pending, at an event attended by U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry.

Starting small and building on common ground, such as sustainable development and search and rescue, has proved to be an effective catalyst enabling the mission creep now evident in the Council. At the last meeting, a new agreement was signed on oil pollution and emergency preparedness. In short, as was reported by Heather Exner-Pirot in the Arctic Dispatch, "[t]he Arctic Council has come of age. It is productive and collegial. It focuses appropriately on common environmental security challenges, and it is making good progress on addressing these." Can the same be accomplished in the South China Sea?

The story of the Arctic Council should inform efforts to improve regional cooperation in the South China Sea. China, Taiwan, Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei, and the Philippines, for example, could begin by working on common environmental concerns such as marine pollution in the same way that the Arctic countries signed the Arctic Environmental Protection Strategy in 1991, which became a stepping-stone to the formation of the Council. The South China Sea nations could then establish a Council with a limited mandate, such as the sustainable development of the area, and work toward agreements on scientific collaboration and issues such as search and rescue before moving on to more difficult territorial and security concerns.

Even though the Arctic Council enjoys a limited mandate from its member states, it has been successful at environmental governance and diffusing tensions in a potentially volatile region. The Council has already achieved considerable success in generating knowledge about the Arctic and bringing added attention to the region in global forums. Although the analogy is certainly not perfect, the United States and other Arctic nations should encourage the South China Sea nations establish a SCSC without delay. With some luck, a pole of peace could be replicated to cool tensions in a regional hotspot. And you never know, before long the Arctic nations could be applying to the SCSC for observer status.

Scott J. Shackelford: Time for a South China Sea Council


----------



## Malaya

*US official hits China maritime &#8216;bullying&#8217;*
By AP (The Philippine Star) | Updated June 22, 2013






WASHINGTON &#8211; The nominee to become the top US diplomat in East Asia delivered pointed comments about China in his confirmation hearing Thursday, saying there&#8217;s no place for &#8220;coercion and bullying&#8221; in the region&#8217;s seas.

Danny Russel told a Senate panel that he will do everything in his power to &#8220;lower the temperature&#8221; in territorial disputes in the South and East China Seas and push claimants, including China, toward diplomacy.

He also said it was &#8220;unacceptable&#8221; for China to demand only bilateral negotiations with the other claimants, and voiced strong US support for efforts by Southeast Asia to negotiate as a bloc and frame a &#8220;code of conduct&#8221; to manage the disputes &#8211; an issue to be taken up at regional security talks in Brunei later this month.

Russel is currently White House senior director for Asian affairs. He is nominee to become assistant secretary for East Asian and Pacific Affairs, replacing Kurt Campbell, who resigned in February to enter business.

Russel is a 28-year career diplomat, less ebullient than Campbell, with long experience in Japan and Korea. His association with Asia began in his 20s when he spent three years studying martial arts in Japan.

He has played a central role in the Obama administration&#8217;s strategic &#8220;pivot&#8221; to Asia that&#8217;s seen the US stake out a diplomatic position on maritime issues that has irked Beijing, with Washington saying it has a national interest in the peaceful resolution of disputes in the South China Sea.

Six governments have overlapping claims to tiny reefs and islands across those resource-rich waters, with China claiming it has sovereignty over virtually all of it. While the US itself is not a claimant, it says it has a stake in the freedom of navigation in its busy sea lanes, which are crucial to world trade.

&#8220;I certainly will do everything in my power to try to lower the temperature, push claimants including China into a diplomatic track and continue to warn them that the region in which China will flourish is a region of law, a region of order and a region of respect for neighbors, not one in which there is space for coercion and bullying,&#8221; Russel said.

He said that President Barack Obama and Secretary of State John Kerry have raised the issue of China&#8217;s behavior on the seas with its leaders, and the Chinese &#8220;are in no doubt that America stands by our allies.&#8221;

The most volatile maritime disputes involving China in the past couple of years have involved US treaty allies, the Philippines and Japan &#8211; nations whom Beijing has blamed for triggering tensions.

While acknowledging US-China competition, Russel said the US supports the rise of China that is stable, prosperous and abides by international rules and norms. He said the US seeks &#8220;practical cooperation&#8221; that benefits both countries and the region.

He said positive cooperation with China would be &#8220;essential&#8221; in getting North Korea to abandon its nuclear weapons.

Russel confirmed that he has visited Pyongyang during his time at the White House. He said helping to achieve a halt or rollback in the North&#8217;s atomic program would be a top priority if he becomes assistant secretary of state.

The full Senate must confirm his appointment. 

*China slams &#8216;illegal occupation&#8217; of reef*

China condemned yesterday what it called the &#8220;illegal occupation&#8221; of a disputed coral reef by the Philippines, and vowed to protect its sovereignty after Manila moved new soldiers and supplies to the remote location.

The Second Thomas shoal, known in the Philippines as Ayungin Reef and in China as the Ren&#8217;ai Reef, is at the center of the latest territorial dispute between Beijing and Manila. Both countries have been locked in a decades-old territorial squabble.

The Philippines is accusing China of encroachment after three Chinese ships, including a naval frigate, converged just five nautical miles (nine kilometers) from an old transport ship that Manila ran aground on a reef in 1999 to mark its territory.

&#8220;China&#8217;s determination to safeguard its national sovereignty is resolute and unwavering and we will never accept any form of illegal occupation of the Ren&#8217;ai Reef by the Philippines,&#8221; Chinese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying told a regular briefing.

Armed Forces of the Philippines chief Gen. Emmanuel Bautista told reporters on Wednesday the military had brought in a fresh team to replace soldiers stationed on the wrecked ship on the reef and replenished their supplies, including food, water and fuel.

China&#8217;s claims over islands, reefs and atolls in resource-rich waters off its south coast and to the east of mainland Southeast Asia have set it directly against Vietnam and the Philippines, while Brunei, Taiwan and Malaysia also lay claim to parts.

The Second Thomas Shoal, a strategic gateway to Recto (Reed) Bank, believed to be rich in oil and natural gas, is one of several possible flashpoints in the South China Sea that could force the US to intervene in defense of its Southeast Asian allies.

US official hits China maritime


----------



## Malaya

*China hits Philippines for 'illegal occupation' of reef*
Reuters
06/21/2013 

BEIJING - China condemned on Friday what it called the "illegal occupation" of a disputed coral reef by the Philippines, and vowed to protect its sovereignty after Manila moved new soldiers and supplies to the remote location.

The Second Thomas Shoal, known in China as the Ren'ai reef, is at the centre of the latest territorial dispute between Beijing and Manila. Both countries have been locked in a decades-old territorial squabble over the South China Sea.

The Philippines is accusing China of encroachment after three Chinese ships, including a naval frigate, converged just 5 nautical miles (9 km) from an old transport ship that Manila ran aground on a reef in 1999 to mark its territory.

"China's determination to safeguard its national sovereignty is resolute and unwavering and (we) will never accept any form of illegal occupation of the Ren'ai reef by the Philippines," Chinese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying told a regular briefing.

Philippine Armed Forces chief General Emmanuel Bautista told reporters on Wednesday the military had brought in a fresh team to replace soldiers stationed on the wrecked ship on the reef and replenished their supplies, including food, water and fuel.

China's claims over islands, reefs and atolls in resource-rich waters off its south coast and to the east of mainland Southeast Asia have set it directly against Vietnam and the Philippines, while Brunei, Taiwan and Malaysia also lay claim to parts.

The Second Thomas Shoal, a strategic gateway to Reed Bank, believed to be rich in oil and natural gas, is one of several possible flashpoints in the South China Sea that could force the United States to intervene in defense of its Southeast Asian allies.

In 2010, Manila awarded an Anglo-Filipino consortium a license to explore for gas on Reed Bank, but drilling stalled last year, because of the presence of Chinese ships.

Manila says Reed Bank, about 80 nautical miles (148 km) west of Palawan island at the southwestern end of the Philippine archipelago, is within the country's 200-nautical mile (370 km) exclusive economic zone.

Beijing says it is part of the Spratlys, a group of 250 uninhabitable islets spread over 165,000 square miles, claimed entirely by China, Taiwan and Vietnam and in part by Malaysia, Brunei and the Philippines.

http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/nation/06/21/13/china-hits-philippines-illegal-occupation-reef


----------



## Malaya

*PH, US naval exercises to include live fire drills
*
Friday, 21 June 2013






MANILA, Philippines - Six US and Philippine warships and 1,000 American and Filipino sailors and servicemen will take part in a joint naval exercise in Ayungin Shoal from June 27 to July 2, close to Panatag Shoal off the coast of Zambales, now under the de facto control of China.

Navy spokesman Lt. Cmdr. Gregory Fabic said the US Navy ships will take part in the exercises alongside Philippine Navy and Coast Guard vessels and aircraft, Philippine Marines, and Navy and Coast Guard special operations teams.

&#8220;This was planned way back in 2010. Whatever happened since then was purely coincidental,&#8221; he said.

Fabic said the maneuvers would be held over 12,347 square kilometers of waters.

&#8220;We will focus on communications, naval surface operations, counterterrorism and maritime security,&#8221; he said.

Ensign Bernard Sabado of Naval Forces Northern Luzon Public Affairs Office said the joint naval exercises dubbed Cooperation Afloat Readiness and Training (CARAT) will include live fire drills, maritime interdiction, ship boarding and seizure, as well as aerial surveillance.

&#8220;In-port&#8221; activities will be conducted in several areas of Northern and Central Luzon and Southern Tagalog, specifically at the former US bases in Subic Bay in Zambales and at Clark Field in Pampanga and at the Philippine Marine training base in Ternate, Cavite.

China has been imposing a three-layered naval and maritime defense around Panatag Shoal since last year, effectively driving away Filipino fishermen from getting closer to fish.

Located 124 nautical miles from mainland Zambales, Panatag Shoal has been a traditional Filipino fishing ground until last year when China illegally occupied it.

A Chinese frigate is currently imposing a 20-nautical mile security perimeter from the shoal.

Two to three maritime and surveillance ships are also positioned in the inner perimeter and have been guarding the entrance to the Panatag lagoon on a rotation basis.

The military has rotated troops on Kalayaan island, including those deployed in Ayungin Shoal, where Chinese ships have taken up positions for more than a month now.

Armed Force chief Gen. Emmanuel Bautista said the re-provisioning for the troops has been carried out without any hostile action.

&#8220;Periodically, we are doing this troop rotation,&#8221; he said.

&#8220;We are also re-supplying them. Not only those deployed at Ayungin but those in other islets.&#8221;

The Palawan-based Armed Forces Western Command (Wescom) under Lt. Gen. Rustico Guerrero has operational jurisdiction over Kalayaan island, Pag-Asa island and nearby islets in the Spratlys.

Since last month, Chinese ships have surrounded Ayungin Shoal, about 120 nautical miles from Rizal, Palawan.

http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/nation/m...h-us-naval-exercises-include-live-fire-drills

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

CMS&#65288;CCG&#65289;7008 launched at WCS on 25.06.2013&#65306;







This is the 1st vessel of a new class with standard displacement of 1750 tonnes&#12290;

More to come&#65292;a lot more&#12290;

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

cirr said:


> CMS&#65288;CCG&#65289;7008 launched at WCS on 25.06.2013&#65306;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the 1st vessel of a new class with standard displacement of 1750 tonnes&#12290;
> 
> More to come&#65292;a lot more&#12290;



You meaning all the ships that in your post come to SCS !?


----------



## cirr

Soryu said:


> You meaning all the ships that in your post come to SCS !?



Not all&#65292;but there will be some 500 CCG and other law enforcement vessels with standard displacements ranging from 600 tonnes to 12000 tonnes patrolling the SCS by 2020.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

CMS 9020&#65292; CMS 9030 and CMS Helicopter B7072 formally inducted 25.05.2013&#65306;

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

cirr said:


> Not all&#65292;but there will be some 500 CCG and other law enforcement vessels with standard displacements ranging from 600 tonnes to 12000 tonnes patrolling the SCS by 2020.


12000 tones!? What's type of those ships!?

A logistics ship for resupply to fishing-ship or ...!?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## hurt




----------



## Oldman1

Confrontation over the South China Sea 'doomed', China tells claimants

BEIJING (Reuters) - Countries with territorial claims in the South China Sea that look for help from third parties will find their efforts "futile", China's Foreign Minister Wang Yi warned on Thursday, adding that the path of confrontation would be "doomed".

Beijing's assertion of sovereignty over a vast stretch of the South China Sea has set it directly against Vietnam and the Philippines, while Brunei, Taiwan and Malaysia also lay claim to other parts of the sea, making it Asia's biggest potential military troublespot.

At stake are potentially massive offshore oil reserves. The seas also lie on shipping lanes and fishing grounds.

Wang didn't name any third countries, but the United States is a close ally of Taiwan and the Philippines, and has good or improving relations with the other nations laying claim to all or part of the South China Sea.

"If certain claimant countries choose confrontation, that path will be doomed," Wang said after a speech at the annual Tsinghua World Peace Forum.

"If such countries try to reinforce their poorly grounded claims through the help of external forces, that will be futile and will eventually prove to be a strategic miscalculation not worth the effort."

The Philippine military said this week it had revived plans to build new air and naval bases at Subic Bay, a former U.S. naval base that American forces could use to counter China's creeping presence in the South China Sea.

Wang's comments came days before the minister is due to attend a meeting of foreign ministers of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations grouping in Brunei from Saturday to Tuesday.

The 10-member ASEAN hopes to reach a legally binding Code of Conduct to manage maritime conduct in disputed areas. For now a watered-down "Declaration of Conduct" is in place.

The path to a Code of Conduct will be slow and deliberate, Wang said, adding that the Declaration of Conduct was a commitment made by China and the 10 ASEAN countries and China would continue to abide by it.

"The right way is to fully implement the Declaration, and in this process, move forward with the Code in a gradual way," Wang said.


----------



## Genesis

not really, they could build up enough to match Japan as to not achieve victory, but enough to deter and cause heavy casualties.

Though I got to say it seems unlikely for Philippines, Vietnam or any of those nations to even come close to Japan.

US and China both got WMDs, I am pretty sure US will support her allies, but I am unsure at what point. Against a country such as China, I think the US will at least think about when to do something. I doubt they would at first shot, but might if things get too serious, like if a Capital has been taken or something of that nature. 

If it's just a few skirmishes here and there. The US will most likely sell weapons, but the chances of actual involvement are slim


----------



## Wholegrain

The Philippines claims are illegitimate because they made up their claim after they got independence in 1945 when French Indochina and the Republic of China already claimed and occupied the islands in the 1930s. The Spratlys were used by fishermen, France occupied it with military forces and the Republic of China protested and counterclaimed. Japan invaded and occupied them, and at the end of the war China was assigned to receive the Japanese surrender from the Spratlys (and in northern French indochina as well).

The American administration of the Philippines lodged no claims and did not occupy the Spratly islands. Vietnam inherited its claim from French Indochina. 

Taiwan's claims are the same as mainland China's.

Malaysia does not really care about the islands at all. Its not important to them.

Malaysia's Mahathir says China is no threat - AJW by The Asahi Shimbun

Malaysia's Mahathir says China is no threat



> November 09, 2011
> 
> By KAZUTO TSUKAMOTO / Correspondent
> Mahathir Mohamad, who served as Malaysian prime minister for 22 years, said China poses no threat to the nations of Southeast Asia or the world, in a recent interview with The Asahi Shimbun.
> 
> With the East Asia summit scheduled for later this month, Mahathir, 85, was asked about how nations should deal with an emerging China as well as his views on Japan in the wake of the Great East Japan Earthquake......
> 
> Q: What are your thoughts about the confrontation between China and some members of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations, which includes Malaysia, over territorial rights to islands in the South China Sea?
> 
> A: We don't like having outside people come in and urge ASEAN countries to confront China, which is what the United States wants us to do. We think that ASEAN countries can settle this problem by themselves. There is no fear on the freedom of the sea for the United States or anybody. These are international trading routes because a lot of foreign ships will want to go to China and transport things from China to other parts of the world. How can you stop that?


----------



## Rechoice

*Hoang Sa, Truong Sa are Sovereign to Viet Nam*
(09/10/2012)

Over hundreds of years, from dynasty to dynasty, Viet Nam has controlled Hoang Sa and ruong Sa Archipelagoes, continuously and peacefully. 


The Toan Tap Thien Nam Tu Chi Lo Do Thu (a collection of maps from the capital reaching out in all four directions), compiled in the 17th century by a scribe called Do Ba or sometimes Cong Dao, provided footnotes on the map of Quang Nghia prefecture in Quang Nam saying that, there is an elongated sandbank lying in the middle of the sea known as Bai Cat Vang, and that every year, in the last month of winter, the Nguyen(1) rulers send eighteen boats there to collect ship wrecked cargo, mainly jewellery, gold and silver coins, weapons and ammunition.
In the map of Dang Trong (Southern Viet Nam) called Giap Ngo Binh Nam Do (a map to pacify the South in the year of Giap Ngo) by the Duke of Doan County, Bui The Dat in 1774, Bai Cat Vang was also identified as Vietnamese territory(2).
During his assignment in Southern Viet Nam, academic Le Quy Don (17261784) compiled the 1776 Phu Bien Tap Luc (a Record of Pacification on the Frontier) on the history, geography and administration of Southern Viet Nam under the Nguyen Lords from 15581775. In this work, Le Quy Don stated that the Dai Truong Sa Island Group (including Hoang Sa and Truong Sa Archipelagoes) was under the jurisdiction of Quang Ngai prefecture.
Located at the sea mouth of An Vinh commune(3) in Binh Son district, Quang Nghia prefecture, there is an offshore island(6)called Re, 30 dam(5) in size. It takes four watches by boat to reach the island, on which there is a village called Tu Chinh with where the inhabitants grow beans. Further out, is Dai Truong Sa Island, where abundant sea life and ship wrecked cargo could be found. It takes the Hoang Sa flotilla, which was founded to visit the island, three days and nights to reach there, where it is found to be near an area called Bac Hai.
The Dai Nam Nhat Thong Toan Do (a map of the unified Dai Nam), the map of Viet Nam under the Nguyen Dynasty in 1838, clearly depicted Hoang Sa and Van Ly Truong Sa, as Vietnamese territory.
The Dai Nam Nhat Thong Chi (the geography of the unified Dai Nam), the collection of geographical books completed in 1882(6) by the Nguyen Dynasty (18021845), the Office for National History defined Hoang Sa Island as Vietnamese territory under the administration of Quang Nghia province. In paragraphs describing the topography of Quang Nghia province, the book records that To the east (of Quang Nghia province), there is a sandy islands -- Hoang Sa island, where the sand and waters alternate and form trenches. To the west, a mountainous region stands like a bulwark. To the south, the province borders with Binh Dinh province, separated by the Ben Da mountain pass. To the north, it borders with Quang Nam province, marked by the Sa Tho Creek.

Hoang Sa, Truong Sa are Sovereign to Viet Nam

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Rechoice

double post


----------



## NiceGuy

Stupid China issue another cheap joke warning and those 50cent warriors jumping up and down again,nothing news

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Malaya

*US destroyer joins CARAT exercise*
By Ric Sapnu (The Philippine Star) | Updated June 28, 2013






SUBIC BAY FREEPORT , Philippines &#8211; The guided-missile destroyer USS Fitzgerald (DDG 62) docked at Alava Pier here yesterday to take part in the 19th Philippines-US Cooperation Afloat Readiness and Training (CARAT) exercise.

Philippine and US Naval forces kicked off the CARAT at the West Philippine Sea after an opening ceremony at this former US naval base.

Two more supply ships, the USNS Washington Chamber and USNS Salvor, will arrive today in Subic Bay for the offloading of supplies and equipment for the joint exercise.

Two sea assets and one helicopter of the Philippine Coast Guard (PCG) would also take part in the CARAT.

PCG Fleet commander Commodore Eduardo Gongona said they would be using their 56-meter multi-purpose vessel and the presidential ship BRP-EDSA (SARV-002) with K-9, medical and personnel from the Coast Guard&#8217;s Subic station.

The PCG Air Group would also dispatch its Bo-105 rescue helicopter (PCG Helo-1636) to participate in the military games.

The 19th CARAT is a series of bilateral naval exercises between the US Navy and the armed forces of Bangladesh, Brunei, Cambodia, Indonesia, Malaysia, the Philippines, Singapore, Thailand and Timor-Leste.

The exercises are a boost to the Philippines&#8217; poorly equipped military as it struggles with rising Chinese aggression.

&#8220;The goal of these exercises is to further boost cooperation... between the two armed forces and further streamline responses to counterterrorism and maritime security,&#8221; deputy presidential spokesperson Abigail Valte said.

The Chinese embassy in Manila released a statement yesterday cautioning the Philippines and the United states not to exacerbate tensions in the area with its exercises.

&#8220;We hope relevant sides should take actions that are beneficial for maintaining peace and stability in the region, not the other way around,&#8221; the statement said, citing a foreign ministry spokesman in Beijing.

Philippine Navy spokesman Lieutenant Commander Gregory Fabic said some of the CARAT exercises would be held between Luzon and Panatag (Scarborough) Shoal.

Specifically, Fabic said some of the drills would be 108 kilometers east of Panatag Shoal in sea lanes within Philippine territory. Chinese vessels had virtually taken over the shoal and prevented Filipino fishermen from fishing in the area.

Nevertheless, Fabic stressed the war games were not meant to provoke China.

&#8220;While the exercises will be between Panatag Shoal and the main island of Luzon, the focus is inter-operability and not targeted against the Chinese,&#8221; Fabic said.

The six-day exercises are an annual event but this year they will be held off the west coast of Luzon, close to Panatag Shoal off Zambales province, which China insists it owns.

The Philippines will deploy its flagship, the BRP Gregorio del Pilar, as well as other navy and coast guard vessels, Fabic said.

About 500 US forces and another 500 Filipino troops will take part in the exercises, according to Fabic.

He said among the highlights was an exercise designed to intercept suspected enemy ships, board them and seize materials they may be carrying that could pose a danger to allies.

There will also be simulated counterterrorism exercises, as well as training in disaster response and increasing proficiency in naval gunnery, he added.

CARAT began in 1995, and has since occurred in several locations throughout the Philippines, including Cebu (2009), Subic Bay (2010), Puerto Princesa City (2011) and General Santos City (2012).

The training events in each CARAT phase are tailored based on available assets and mutual training goals across a broad range of naval capabilities, according to the US embassy Information Office advisory.

CARAT Philippines 2013 will focus on maritime security operations, maritime domain awareness and information sharing.&#8211; With Evelyn Macairan

http://www.philstar.com/headlines/2013/06/28/959159/us-destroyer-joins-carat-exercise

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Malaya

*New Philippine base will send message to China - expert*

ABS-CBNnews.com
06/27/2013 






MANILA - A new Philippine naval base that US troops can access will send a strong message to China, a security expert said Thursday.

Political science professor and defense expert Clarita Carlos said it will tell Beijing that Manila has the capability to defend itself, with the help of Washington.

*"Remember you have the mutual defence treaty, and given all the provocations from China in trying to get for herself all those islands, reefs, ecetera, and other features in the South China Sea, I think this is one way of telegraphing to her, we also have the capability if we want to, of course supported by the United States of America,"* Carlos said.

"So I would imagine, there would be more visits of U.S. naval personnel here and there would be more joint and combined exercises. Nothing wrong with that," she added.

The Philippine military wants to build new air and naval bases at Subic Bay, coinciding with a resurgence of US warships, planes and personnel in the region as Washington turns its attention to a newly assertive China and continues to shift foreign, economic and security policy towards Asia.

*A 30-hectare area has been identified for a P10-billion base development.*

The US visits have become more frequent as Beijing grows more assertive in the South China Sea, which is claimed entirely by China, Taiwan and Vietnam and in part by Malaysia, Brunei and the Philippines -- one of Asia's biggest flashpoints.

The frequency of US Navy ships passing through Subic has increased dramatically, underlining its strategic importance near vital sea lines and just 130 nautical miles (241 km) east of Scarborough Shoal, a rock formation controlled by China since a tense two-month standoff with the Philippines in 2012.

This year alone, 72 US warships and submarines visited Subic, compared with 88 for all of 2012, 54 in 2011 and 51 in 2010, official data showed.

*Japan access*

Defense Secretary Voltaire Gazmin on Thursday said Japan can also be given access to Philippines military bases amid a rising security threat from China.

He said the government is still drafting a plan that would allow US forces to spend more time on Filipino bases, something that could also be offered to Japan's military later.

"If and when there is agreement on the access, then there will be equipment coming in from the (United) States," Gazmin told a joint news conference in Manila after meeting with visiting Japan Defence Minister Itsunori Onodera.

"Now as far as Japan is concerned, we do welcome other countries -- particularly Japan since Japan is a strategic partner -- in accordance with our existing protocols."

The US had tens of thousands of troops stationed in the Philippines, at the Clark Air Base and Subic Naval Base north of Manila, until the early 1990s.

The United States, a former colonial ruler of the Philippines, was forced to abandon the bases amid anti-US sentiment and a row over rent. The constitution now bans any permanent foreign bases in the Philippines.

However the Clark and Subic facilities, now partly converted to business use, still host and service US military aircraft and warships on short-term exercises.

One of those began Thursday in waters between the Philippines' main island of Luzon and a disputed shoal now occupied by China.

*Wargames in West Philippine Sea*

The annual exercises were launched in Subic Bay, a former US naval base.

Officials said the drills are aimed at improving mutual operations between the two allies in maintaining regional security, addressing trafficking and smuggling, and responding to disasters.

"It also sends a message to our neighbours that our navies share a common interest in keeping our seas and littorals open for safe commerce and the usual interactions of seafaring states," Exercise Director for the Philippines, Ruel Saonoy, said.

Though some exercises will be held in waters facing the disputed Scarborough Shoal, where Chinese and Philippine vessels faced off last year, naval commanders from the US and Philippines were quick to say that the exercises were routine, and were not related to maritime tensions.

"I don't think it (exercises) will amount to anything as far as tension is concerned. We don't speak of tensions here but we speak of maritime cooperation," Vice Commander of the Philippine navy, Edgardo Tamayo, said.

Commander of US Navy Task Force 73, Rear Admiral Thomas Carney, said the drills are part of US strategic rebalance to Asia.

"It's certainly part of the rebalance that the U.S. is looking to reinforce not only militarily but economically and politically with Asia," he said.

The Philippines has accused China of "encroachment" near another disputed, the Second Thomas Shoal, a coral reef where Manila recently beefed up its small military presence, diplomatic sources told Reuters.

China in turn has accused the Philippines of "illegal occupation" of the reef, which is a strategic gateway to an area believed to be rich in oil and natural gas. - with reports from Reuters, Agence France-Presse

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Malaya

*US, PH forces off Panatag Shoal
&#8216;War games not meant to intimidate China&#8217;*
By Nikko Dizon
Philippine Daily Inquirer






The Philippine Navy&#8217;s flagship, the BRP Gregorio del Pilar, is back in the waters near Panatag Shoal (Scarborough Shoal), this time not for a face-off with Chinese warships over disputed territory in the West Philippine Sea (South China Sea) but for five days of joint maneuvers with the United States Navy.

The Philippines&#8217; first warship will be participating in war games with a fleet of American naval vessels led by the guided-missile destroyer USS Fitzgerald.

Panatag Shoal is a reef in the Philippine Sea claimed by both the Philippines and China and was the site of a maritime standoff between the two countries that lasted more than two months last year.

*Far from Panatag*

But the war games will take place 108 kilometers away from the disputed shoal, Lt. Cmdr. Gregory Fabic, spokesman for the Philippine Navy, said last week.

With the joint maneuvers playing out that far from the shoal, reportedly still guarded by three Chinese coastal patrol vessels, the Philippines and the United States do not expect China to view the exercises as &#8220;intimidation,&#8221; Fabic said.

The war games, called Exercise Cooperation Afloat Readiness and Training (Carat) 2013, begin Thursday and will run up to July 2.

Fabic said holding Carat near Panatag Shoal and other areas off northern Luzon had been planned long before the standoff with China at the reef last year.

The Naval Forces Northern Luzon is the primary Philippine Navy unit responsible for the exercise.

&#8220;The Carat 2013 major objectives are to enhance the current Philippine Navy and US capabilities in naval operations &#8230; such as communication, naval gunnery, at-sea operations, maritime interdiction and humanitarian assistance and disaster response operations and increase the level of interoperability between the Philippine Navy and the US Navy in the conduct of combined naval operations,&#8221; a statement from the Naval Forces Northern Luzon said Wednesday.

It said the exercises would include in-port and at-sea events, individual and unit training, and engagement with the local community, among other activities.

Aside from BRP Gregorio del Pilar (PF-15), a PN Aircraft (Islander), Special Boat Team, Diving Team of Naval Special Operations Group (NAVSOG), Construction Team from the Naval Engineers and Philippine Marine Corps company will participate in the military exercises &#8220;to test their readiness and capability,&#8221; the Navy said.

It added that the Philippine Coast Guard would have one of its flagships, the BRP Edsa, joining the war games, as well as a helicopter, its diving team, and a visit, board, search and seizure team.

Aside from the USS Fitzgerald, the US Navy will have its salvage ships, the USNS Safeguard and USNS Salvor in the waters off Zambales.

Members of the US Marine Corps and other specialized personnel will also participate in the war games.

The USS Fitzgerald was sent to the Korean Peninsula last April amid tensions between South and North Korea. It also participated in the joint military exercises between the United States and South Korea, rankling the North.

*In arbitration*

Technically, the Philippines and China remain in a standoff at Panatag Shoal.

Philippine ships withdrew from the shoal in mid-June last year at the height of a storm to ease tensions in the area.

But despite an agreement to withdraw, the Chinese ships never left and even cordoned off the mouth of the shoal&#8217;s lagoon to prevent the entry of fishing boats from other countries.

With nothing to match China&#8217;s military might, the Philippines took the dispute to the United Nations in January for arbitration.

The Philippines and China also have rival claims in the Spratly archipelago, a scattering of islets, reefs and atolls in the middle of the West Philippine Sea believed to be sitting atop vast deposits of oil and gas.

Brunei, Malaysia, Vietnam and Taiwan also claim parts of the Spratlys in rivalry with China, which claims nearly all of the sea as its territory.

*Japan&#8217;s defense chief*

China is also locked in a territorial dispute with Japan over a group of islands in the East China Sea known to the Japanese as the Senkakus but which the Chinese call Diaoyus.

Defense Secretary Voltaire Gazmin is meeting Thursday with Japanese Defense Minister Itsunori Onodera, who is visiting the Philippines for two days.

Whether the meeting between Gazmin and Onodera has to do with their countries&#8217; territorial dispute with China is unclear, as there was no word about it in the advisory issued by the Department of National Defense on Wednesday.

A recent news report from Japan Times (News on Japan, Asia Pacific and the world | The Japan Times) said that Onodera &#8220;plans to discuss with Philippine Defense Secretary Voltaire Gazmin the current tensions in the region and to work out a coordinated response toward China.&#8221;

But even this was unofficial, as the Japanese report quoted an unnamed government source.

From Manila, Onodera will fly to Hawaii supposedly to discuss with US officials its territorial row with China.

Wednesday&#8217;s advisory said that Onodera will arrive at the defense department at 10 a.m. and will be given arrival honors.

*Limited press con*

Onodera will meet with journalists after his call and lunch with Gazmin.

The advisory said Onodera would entertain &#8220;a maximum of two questions each from the Japanese media (including members of the Foreign Correspondents Association of the Philippines) and Filipino defense reporters.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Malaya

*Philippines wants to give US, Japan access to bases*

*The Philippines said Thursday it was looking to give the United States and Japan greater access to its military bases, as it seeks to counter what it perceives as a rising security threat from China.*







*Philippine Defence Secretary Voltaire Gazmin (R) speaks as his Japanese counterpart Itsunori Onodera listens during a joint press conference in Manila. (AFP PHOTO / TED ALJIBE)*

*MANILA: The Philippines said Thursday it was looking to give the United States and Japan greater access to its military bases, as it seeks to counter what it perceives as a rising security threat from China.*

The government is initially drafting a plan that would allow US forces to spend more time on Filipino bases, something that could also be offered to Japan's military later, Defence Secretary Voltaire Gazmin said.

"If and when there is agreement on the access, then there will be equipment coming in from the (United) States," Gazmin told a joint news conference in Manila after meeting with visiting Japan Defence Minister Itsunori Onodera.

"Now as far as Japan is concerned, we do welcome other countries -- particularly Japan since Japan is a strategic partner -- in accordance with our existing protocols."

President Benigno Aquino had already stated that the Philippines would welcome an increased US military presence, amid tense disputes with China over competing claims to parts of the South China Sea.

However Gazmin's comments indicated the Philippines was hoping to expand on the standard military exercises that the two nations' armed forces regularly engage in.

"Modalities for the increased rotational presence are right now being examined. One modality is the conduct of high-value, high-impact exercise," Gazmin said, without elaborating.

However Gazmin emphasised the plan would not see any new bases or a permanent US presence in the Philippines.

The United States had tens of thousands of troops stationed in the Philippines, at the Clark Air Base and Subic Naval Base north of Manila, until the early 1990s.

The United States, a former colonial ruler of the Philippines, was forced to abandon the bases amid anti-US sentiment and a row over rent. The constitution now bans any permanent foreign bases in the Philippines.

However the Clark and Subic facilities, now partly converted to business use, still host and service US military aircraft and warships on short-term exercises.

One of those began Thursday in waters between the Philippines' main island of Luzon and a disputed shoal now occupied by China.

Several hundred US Special Forces troops have also been rotating through the southern Philippines since early 2002 to train Filipino soldiers who are fighting Islamic militants.

Philippines wants to give US, Japan access to bases - Channel NewsAsia

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Malaya

*Japan vows to help Philippines amid China sea row*






*Visiting Japanese Defence Minister Itsunori Onodera (left) hugs his Philippine counterpart Voltaire Gazmin after a joint press conference in Manila on Thursday, June 27, 2013. Japan pledged on Thursday to help the Philippines defend its "remote islands", as both governments expressed concern over China's robust moves to stake its claims to disputed Asian waters. -- PHOTO: AFP*

MANILA (AFP) - Japan pledged Thursday to help the Philippines defend its "remote islands", as both governments expressed concern over China's robust moves to stake its claims to disputed Asian waters.

Japanese Defence Minister Itsunori Onodera said China's contentious claim to nearly all of the South China Sea and its territorial dispute with Japan in the East China Sea were discussed during top-level talks in Manila.

"We agreed that we will further co-operate in terms of the defence of remote islands... the defence of territorial seas as well as protection of maritime interests," Mr Onodera told a joint news conference.

"We face a very similar situation in the East China Sea of Japan. The Japan side is very concerned that this kind of situation in the South China Sea could affect the situation in the East China Sea," he said, speaking through an interpreter.

Japan vows to help Philippines amid China sea row

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Fsjal

Well, China seems unafraid.
Anyway, let the masters come back home.


----------



## BoXilai

The Philippines may still believes that military bases of the U.S Army will makes Chinese scares and American will reacts stronger in their conflicts in the SCS. I saw these opinions in mind of many South Vietnam officers/generals before 1975. They may have not changed much in opinion of relation with the U.S after a long time. 

When American invaded Vietnam, I saw Thailand, The Philippines invited their "ally" to their country to used military bases, sent troops to Vietnam vehemently. And when tension between The U.S and North Korea rising, their President one more time keep the deportment of previous leaders generation. To be honest, if I have a friend who has genitive like that in my life, I'm sure I will feel shame when known him and start to disdain that guy. Really!


----------



## Malaya

*Indonesia, Vietnam, Code of Conduct in South China Sea.*
Fri, June 28 2013

Jakarta (ANTARA News) - Indonesia and Vietnam agreed to continue to encourage discussions to find agreement for the implementation of "Code of Conduct" in South China Sea.

"We have discussed situation in East Sea or South China Sea with an aim of assuring peaceful solutions of all problems in the region according to international law with a spirit of finding peaceful resolution," President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono said in a joint press conference with visiting Vietnamese President Truong Tan Sang here on Thursday.

He said Indonesia and Vietnam had common view with regard to code of ethics in South china Sea.

"We also wish what has been agreed between ASEAN and China could be continued to move from declaration of conduct towards code of conduct which will certainly be good for all countries connected with South China Sea," he said.

President Yudhoyono said Indonesia and Vietnam had also agreed to support each other with regard to the two countries` nominations various positions in the US such as including membership in the UN Security Council.

President Truong Tan Sang arrived here on Thursday afternoon for a two-day state visit.

President Yudhoyono and First Lady Any Yudhoyono welcomed President Truong Tan Sang and First Lady Mai Tinh Hanh in a state ceremony at the Merdeka Palace.

After the ceremony the two heads of state held a private meeting which was then followed a bilateral meeting.

President Yudhoyono held a state dinner in honor of President Truong Tan Sang in the evening.

Antara News : Indonesia, Vietnam, Code of Conduct in South China Sea.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Malaya

*US, Philippines start military exercise in South China Sea*






Naval forces from the Philippines and the United States have started a massive six-day joint military exercise in the South China Sea, adding to tensions with China.

A fleet of American naval vessels including two warships has been deployed to the region to take part in the drills which are being led by the guided-missile destroyer USS Fitzgerald.

About 500 American and 500 Filipino sailors will take part in the war games which will be held from June 27 to July 2.

The drills will take place off the west coast of Philippines' main island of Luzon, close to Scarborough Shoal.

The Scarborough Shoal is a reef located in the strategically vital South China Sea which both China and the Philippines claim as their own territory.

However, the Philippines says China has, for more than a year, effectively occupied Scarborough Shoal where the two countries engaged in a maritime standoff last year.

The U.S. announced in 2011 that it would increase joint training exercises with the Philippines in order to counter China&#8217;s growing influence in the region.

On Thursday, the Chinese embassy in Manila released a statement warning the Philippines and the U.S. not to increase tensions in the area with their war games.

"We hope relevant sides should take actions that are beneficial for maintaining peace and stability in the region, not the other way around," the statement said, citing a foreign ministry spokesman in Beijing.

The Obama administration has been trying to encircle and contain China with a new strategy called the &#8220;Asia Pivot.&#8221;

The aggressive policy involves surging American military presence throughout the region, including in the Philippines, Japan, Australia, Guam, South Korea and Singapore among other countries.

A study last year by David Shambaugh, the director of the China Policy Program at George Washington University shows that the U.S. and China are heading toward a more strained relationship with increased mutual distrust.

PressTV - US, Philippines hold war games

Reactions: Like Like:

1


----------



## Malaya



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Malaya

*US passed resolution condemning intimidation by China*
June 27, 2013






United States Senate Committee on Foreign Relations recently has passed a resolution condemning China's actions related to the territorial dispute in the East China Sea and South China Sea. ANT&#272; reported on June 27. 

Japanese media reported on June 15 that a bipartisan group of U.S. senators has introduced a resolution condemning intimidation by China in its assertion of territorial claims in the South and East China Seas and reaffirming the U.S. support for the peaceful resolution of territorial disputes in the region. 

The resolution, put forward by Robert Menendez (D-New Jersey), Chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee, and other senators on the committee, is expected to be approved at a plenary session of the Senate after passing the committee.

It warns against threatening moves by China to claim sovereignty over the Japanese-controlled Senkaku Islands in the East China Sea.

The U.S. government "acknowledges that they are under the administration of Japan and opposes any unilateral actions that would seek to undermine such administration," the resolution says. 

It also says the government "affirms that the unilateral actions of a third party will not affect" that acknowledgement and "remains committed" under the U.S.-Japan security treaty to "respond to any armed attack in the territories under the administration of Japan." 

In an other move, on June 26, Sankei newspaper reported that Japan's Defense Ministry is considering developing long-range ballistic missile with a range of 400-500 km, in order to prevent a potential attack on Senkaku islands / Diaoyu. Ballistic missile is expected to be located on the island of Okinawa, southern Japan. If this project is done, this will be the first time the Japanese Self-Defense Forces are equipped with far ranged attack weapons.

*From The Philippines: *

Department of Foreign Affairs spokesperson Raul Hernandez on Friday welcomed US Senate Resolution 167, filed June 10 in an effort to ease tensions in the South China Sea and the East China Sea.

The resolution, filed by US Senator Robert and his co-sponsors Senators Benjamin Cardin, Marco Rubio and Bob Corker, particularly cited China&#8217;s aggressive assertion of its nine-dash line claim in regional waters and sought to calm the tense air among claimants. 

&#8220;We understand that the resolution has yet to undergo the necessary congressional process before it is passed by the US Senate, nonetheless, we extend our appreciation on the mere fact that some US senators have deigned it necessary to express their views on a fundamental issue that affects the peace and stability of the Asia-Pacific region,&#8221; Hernandez said in a statement issued Friday afternoon.

Hernandez said the Philippines &#8220;especially appreciates the reaffirmation of the peaceful resolution of disputes,&#8221; earlier expressed by top US officials in supporting the Philippines.

The resolution noted recent tension in Asia-Pacific waters, including Chinese incursions into the Ayungin and Panatag Shoals within the Philippines&#8217; exclusive economic zone in the West Philippine Sea, as the Manila government refers to part of the South China Sea.

It also cited China&#8217;s &#8220;unilateral steps&#8221; in laying claim to the Japanese-controlled Senkaku Islands (Diaoyu Islands to the Chinese) in the East China Sea.

The resolution also made reference to the Philippines&#8217; arbitration bid against China in the United Nations, a process that seeks to clarify maritime boundaries in the West Philippine Sea, stop Chinese incursions into the country&#8217;s EEZ and nullify China&#8217;s nine-dash line claim to the waters.

It sought the US Senate&#8217;s condemnation of &#8220;the use of coercion, threats, or force&#8230; to assert disputed maritime or territorial claims or alter the status quo&#8221; and &#8220;strongly urges that all parties&#8230; to exercise self-restraint&#8221; in undertaking their respective activities within the waters.

The Philippines, China, Taiwan, Vietnam, Malaysia and Brunei have been asserting their respective claims to parts of the South China Sea while Japan and China bicker over the East China Sea islands.

The resolution also expressed support for peaceful and diplomatic means of settling maritime disputes and for the United States&#8217; political and military role in maintaining stability in the waters.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Bienvenido

Oldman1 said:


> BEIJING (Reuters) - *Countries with territorial claims in the South China Sea that look for help from third parties will find their efforts "futile", China's Foreign Minister Wang Yi warned on Thursday, adding that the path of confrontation would be "doomed".*
> 
> Beijing's assertion of sovereignty over a vast stretch of the South China Sea has set it directly against Vietnam and the Philippines, while Brunei, Taiwan and Malaysia also lay claim to other parts of the sea, making it Asia's biggest potential military troublespot.
> 
> At stake are potentially massive offshore oil reserves. The seas also lie on shipping lanes and fishing grounds.
> 
> Wang didn't name any third countries, but the United States is a close ally of Taiwan and the Philippines, and has good or improving relations with the other nations laying claim to all or part of the South China Sea.
> 
> "If certain claimant countries choose confrontation, that path will be doomed," Wang said after a speech at the annual Tsinghua World Peace Forum.
> 
> "If such countries try to reinforce their poorly grounded claims through the help of external forces, that will be futile and will eventually prove to be a strategic miscalculation not worth the effort."
> 
> The Philippine military said this week it had revived plans to build new air and naval bases at Subic Bay, a former U.S. naval base that American forces could use to counter China's creeping presence in the South China Sea.
> 
> Wang's comments came days before the minister is due to attend a meeting of foreign ministers of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations grouping in Brunei from Saturday to Tuesday.
> 
> The 10-member ASEAN hopes to reach a legally binding Code of Conduct to manage maritime conduct in disputed areas. For now a watered-down "Declaration of Conduct" is in place.
> 
> The path to a Code of Conduct will be slow and deliberate, Wang said, adding that the Declaration of Conduct was a commitment made by China and the 10 ASEAN countries and China would continue to abide by it.
> 
> "The right way is to fully implement the Declaration, and in this process, move forward with the Code in a gradual way," Wang said.


Yeah, we know it's doomed for China. Chinese fears a conflict that would undermine their economic and financial capability. Of course, all countries involved would suffer nevertheless, but China for sure would suffer most. So talking peace and respect to one's territory and 200 nautical miles economic zone would be the start.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## peaceful

it is so funny that losers still dream support from their masters. 

guys, wake up, you are nothing other than a loser nation, the US doesn't have the obiligation to protect and fight a full out war with China. 

one day loser, always loser.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zero_wing

peaceful said:


> it is so funny that losers still dream support from their masters.
> 
> guys, wake up, you are nothing other than a loser nation, the US doesn't have the obiligation to protect and fight a full out war with China.
> 
> one day loser, always loser.



Wow so says the chinese aggressors

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Malaya

*Chinese media warns of "counterstrike" in South China Sea dispute*
29 Jun 2013

*Chinese state media accused the Philippines of using the ASEAN group of nations as an "accomplice" in the violation of its sovereignty claims in the South China Sea on Saturday, and warned of a potential "counterstrike"*

BEIJING: Chinese state media accused the Philippines of using the ASEAN group of nations as an "accomplice" in the violation of its sovereignty claims in the South China Sea on Saturday, and warned of a potential "counterstrike".

The editorial in the overseas edition of the People's Daily, from China's ruling Communist Party, came as the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) was due to meet in Brunei, with disputes in the sea expected to dominate discussions.

The Philippines, which has sought closer ties with Washington amid territorial disputes with Beijing, "calls on the United States as 'patron'" and uses ASEAN as an "accomplice," the editorial said.

It added that the Phillipines was guilty of "seven sins," including the "illegal occupation" of parts of the Spratly Islands, strengthening control over disputed coral reefs, inviting foreign companies to develop oil and gas resources in disputed waters, and promoting the "internationalisation" of the sea.

"If the Philippines continues to provoke China... a counterstrike will be hard to avoid," the editorial said.

Members of the ASEAN group hope to reach a legally-binding code of conduct aimed at easing tensions over disputed areas in the sea, which is claimed almost in its entirety by Beijing, leading to long-running disputes with several neighbouring countries including the Philippines.

China has resisted ASEAN efforts to create a legally-binding code to govern conduct on the sea, and analysts say Beijing will continue to oppose any agreement weakening its claims.

The Philippines this year sought UN arbitration over its dispute with China, a move condemned by Beijing.

A US destroyer joined the Philippine Navy's flagship this week for military exercises close to the Scarborough Shoal, which China insists it owns.

Countries around the region have boosted spending on their navies in recent years in response to tensions, raising fears of a military conflict. 

Chinese media warns of "counterstrike" in South China Sea dispute - Channel NewsAsia


----------



## Malaya

*Be ready for 'counterstrike,' PH warned by China media*
06/29/2013 






MANILA, Philippines (Updated) - The Philippines should brace itself for a possible "counterstrike" should Beijing continue to be provoked in the South China Sea (West Philippine Sea).

The warning was contained in a front-page commentary published Saturday in the state-owned People's Daily.

"If the Philippines continues to provoke China... a counterstrike will be hard to avoid," the editorial said.

The overseas edition of the People's Daily slammed the Philippines for committing "seven sins" in the South China Sea. These include the supposed illegal occupation of the Spratly islands, inviting foreign capital to engage in oil ang gas development, and internationalizing the disputed waters, a report that appeared in the South China Morning Post said.

The comments come a day before an Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) meeting in Brunei, where ministers from member-countries will attempt to forge a legally binding "code of conduct" on the West Philippine Sea.

People's Daily called out ASEAN for becoming an "accomplice" and also criticized the Philippines for calling on the United States to act as a "patron," according to the report.

Members of the military are presently holding war games with the United States near the Scarborough Shoal.

In a joint press conference with visiting Japanese Defense Minister Itsunori Onodera on Friday, Defense Secretary Voltaire Gazmin said the government wants to give the United States and Japan more access to military bases.

Stirring up trouble

China slammed the plans. In an article published in People's Daily on Friday, China's Foreign Ministry spokesperson Hua Chunying was quoted as saying that China is "glad" to see other countries develop relations but is opposed to "relevant countries' moves to form factions, stir up trouble, deliberately play up tensions in the region and mislead international opinion."

In another People's Daily report, Chen Qinghong, a Chinese expert on Philippine Studies, acccused the Philippines of using its US ties to strengthen its military force.

"The Philippines hopes to seek more support from the US to balance China's increasing power in the region, so that it is sufficiently emboldened to bargain with China on the South China Sea issue," Chen said.

Amid concerns that the war games could provoke China, Philippine Navy spokesman Lieutenant Commander Gregory Fabic earlier said the exercises are not targeted against the Chinese and will instead focus on inter-operability.

Aside from China and the Philippines, Brunei, Malaysia, and Vietnam have also posted their respective claims on the disputed territory. - with Agence France-Presse


----------



## Malaya

*DFA: China's 'counterstrike' statement provocative*
By XIANNE ARCANGEL, GMA News June 29, 2013

The Department of Foreign Affairs on Saturday said China's warning of an inevitable "counterstrike" against the Philippines is a provocative statement that has "no place in the relations of civilized nations."

In a text message to GMA News Online, DFA spokesperson Raul Hernandez said China is obligated under international law, specifically the United Nations Charter "to pursue a peaceful resolution of disputes &#8211; meaning without the use of force [or] the threat to use forces."

China's state media warned on Saturday a "counterstrike" against the Philippines was inevitable if it continues to provoke Beijing in the West Philippine Sea (South China Sea).

The overseas edition of the People's Daily, the official newspaper of the Chinese Communist Party, said in a front-page commentary that the Philippines had committed "seven sins" in the West Philippine Sea, including the "illegal occupation" of the Spratly Islands, inviting foreign capital to engage in oil and gas development in the disputed waters and promoting the "internationalization" of the waters.

China's statement comes on the heels of Defense Secretary Voltaire Gazmin's confirmation on Thursday of a plan to give the United States and its allies access to military bases in the Philippines.

However, Malcañang on Saturday clarified the plan is not yet final as the Department of National Defense is still studying it to make sure it will be done in accordance with the 1987 Constitution and the 1999 Visiting Forces Agreement.

On the other hand, Hernandez called on China "to be a responsible member in the community of nations" and resolve territorial disputes in the West Philippine Sea through the "rules-based, transparent, binding and non-provocative" mechanism of the UN Charter.

The DFA spokesperson in particular cited Part XV of the UN Convention of the Law of the Sea, which provides that "State Parties shall settle any dispute between them" by peaceful means.

"A peaceful and rules-based resolution to the disputes in the West Philippine Sea is durable and beneficial to all and will ensure peace and stability in the region," Hernandez said.

The People's Daily commentary is not the first time this week that China issued a statement regarding territorial disputes in the West Philippine Sea.

China's Foreign Minister Wang Yi warned Thursday that countries with territorial claims in the South China Sea that look for help from third parties will find their efforts "futile" and that confrontation over the area is "doomed."

Wang's speech at the Tsinghua World Peace Forum coincided with the start of the US-Philippines naval forces' military exercises off Luzon's west coast.

But Philippine Navy has insisted the war games, being held just a few miles away from the disputed Panatag (Scarborough) Shoal, were not meant to provoke China. &#8212; LBG, GMA News


----------



## Malaya

*Malaysia respects PH decision to bring sea row to UN*

by Pia Lee-Brago, The Philippine Star
06/29/2013

MANILA, Philippines - Malaysia respects the Philippines&#8217; decision to bring its territorial dispute with China to a United Nations tribunal, a Malaysian official said recently.

Malaysian Foreign Minister Anifah Aman, who was in Manila for a working visit, told Foreign Affairs Secretary Albert del Rosario last Thursday that Malaysia had also resorted to international legal adjudication in the past.

During a meeting, Del Rosario briefed Anifah on the two rules-based components of the Philippines&#8217; approach to the West Philippine Sea issue: the arbitration case filed by the Philippines and the Code of Conduct.

Both expressed support for the expeditious beginning of negotiations on the Code of Conduct, which will be taken up at the 46th ASEAN Foreign Ministers&#8217; Meeting (AMM) to be held in Brunei starting today until July 2.

Anifah and Del Rosario also discussed the strengthening of bilateral relations between the Philippines and Malaysia, including the convening of the 8th Joint Commission Meeting (JCM) preferably within the year.

The JCM, which will be hosted by Malaysia, is the main bilateral consultative mechanism between the Philippines and Malaysia.

Del Rosario thanked his counterpart for Malaysia&#8217;s commitment to the peace talks between the government and the Moro Islamic Liberation Front (MILF) and requested their support for the closure of the tripartite review process.

The two ministers also discussed cooperation in relation to the standoff in Lahad Datu, Sabah, between the army of the Sulu sultanate and Malaysian security forces.

Anifah&#8217;s visit was his first trip to an Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) capital following his reappointment as foreign minister.

Last October, Anifah was also in Manila with Prime Minister Najib Razak for the signing of the framework agreement between the government and the MILF.


----------



## Malaya

*PH slams China for retaliation threat*
By Tarra Quismundo
Philippine Daily Inquirer

Saturday, June 29th, 2013






*MANILA, Philippines&#8212;The Philippines scored China&#8217;s &#8220;provocative&#8221; threat of retaliation in the West Philippine Sea (South China Sea) on Saturday, urging Beijing to defer instead to peaceful means of resolving maritime disputes under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea.*

In a statement, the Department of Foreign Affairs reminded China of its obligation under international law to settle disputes without the use of threat or force.

&#8220;China has an obligation under international law, especially the UN Charter, to pursue a peaceful resolution of disputes, meaning without the use of force, the threat to use force such as this recent provocative statement of a counterstrike,&#8221; said DFA spokesperson Raul Hernandez.

&#8220;There is no place in the relations of civilized nations to use such provocative language,&#8221; he added.

Hernandez made the statement in response to the Chinese People&#8217;s Daily&#8217;s scathing commentary on the Philippines on Saturday, which warned of a &#8220;counterstrike&#8221; as it accused Manila of &#8220;seven sins&#8221; in the disputed West Philippine Sea, which is how the Philippine government calls part of the South China Sea that is within in exclusive economic zone.

Among other things, the paper, a mouthpiece of the Chinese Communist Party, accused the Philippines of &#8220;illegal occupation&#8221; of the Spratly Islands, part of which Manila contends to be within its exclusive economic zone.

The commentary also blasted the Philippines for advocating the &#8220;internationalization&#8221; of the waters, a critical international sea lane that has been under the close watch of Philippine allies, the United States in particular.

China issued its criticism amid war games between the Philippines and the US Navy off the Panatag (Scarborough) Shoal, a territory in the West Philippine Sea that saw a tense standoff between Philippine and Chinese ships last year. At least three Chinese patrol vessels are known to still be in the area.

The commentary also came out as leaders of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations met in Brunei in hopes of drafting a legally binding Code of Conduct that is aimed at ensuring peace in the disputed waters.

Despite Beijing&#8217;s sharp statements, the DFA called for sobriety and invoked peace in hopes of averting further escalation of tensions.

&#8220;We call on China to be a responsible member in the community of nations. The way towards a peaceful resolution of disputes is through the dispute resolution mechanism under the UN Charter, which is rules-based, transparent, binding and non-provocative,&#8221; said Hernandez.

&#8220;A peaceful and rules-based resolution to the disputes in the West Philippine Sea is durable and beneficial to all and will ensure peace and stability in the region,&#8221; he added.

The Philippines haled China to arbitral proceedings in the United Nations in January in a bid to peacefully settle the maritime dispute. The move has gained the support of the United States, the European Parliament and Japan, which also has a dispute with China in the East China Sea.

Now pending before a five-member arbitral tribunal, the legal action seeks to prevent further Chinese incursions into established Philippine maritime boundaries in the West Philippine Sea and to invalidate Beijing&#8217;s &#8220;excessive&#8221; nine-dash line claim encompassing almost all of the South China Sea.

China has rejected the proceedings, asserting &#8220;indisputable sovereignty&#8221; over the West Philippine Sea. It has been calling for a bilateral solution to its territorial disputes with the Philippines, Vietnam, Brunei, Malaysia, and Taiwan. The Philippines has meanwhile been pushing for a multilateral approach.


----------



## Malaya

*US trains Philippines on how to use drones amid China fears*






* US Navy serviceman (left) prepares to launch an Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (UAV) with Philippine Navy servicemen aboard a patrol boat during a joint annual military exercise called Carat at former US military base Sangley Point in Cavite city, west of Manila on June 28, 2013. US troops trained their Philippine counterparts how to use surveillance drones on Friday, as Manila seeks to boost military ties with Washington and counter what it perceives as a rising security threat from China. -- PHOTO: REUTERS*


----------



## Malaya

*US, Japan to establish military bases in the Philippines*
By Joseph Santolan 
29 June 2013






On June 27, at a press conference in Quezon City, Philippines, Philippine Defense Minister Voltaire Gazmin and his Japanese counterpart, Itsunori Onodera, announced that the Philippines would establish basing arrangements with both the US and Japanese militaries. China was the explicit target of this move allowing the US and Japan to station military personnel and equipment in the Philippines.

At the press conference, Gazmin called China &#8220;the oppressive neighbor&#8221; and the &#8220;bully at our doorstep.&#8221; He stated, &#8220;At this point in time, we cannot stand alone. We need allies. If we don&#8217;t do this, we will be bullied by bigger powers and that is what is happening now: there is China, sitting on our territory.&#8221;Onodera is in the Philippines on a two-day official visit. In discussions of the disputed waters of the South China Sea, he pledged to help the Philippines defend &#8220;its remote islands.&#8221;

Onodera also announced that Japan would officially back the Philippines&#8217; claim of territorial sovereignty, which is currently being adjudicated by the United National Commission on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS). These statements constitute an unprecedented acknowledgement by Japan of the validity of the Philippine claim to the disputed waters.

There is a continuing, two-month armed stand-off between Philippine marines stationed on one of the islands in question and the Chinese navy.

&#8220;We agreed that we will further cooperate in terms of the defense of remote islands... the defense of territorial seas as well as protection of maritime interests,&#8221; Onodera continued. He stated that Japan was &#8220;very concerned that this kind of situation in the South China Sea could affect the situation in the East China Sea,&#8221; referring to ongoing Sino-Japanese disputes over the Senkaku/Diaoyu islands.

Both Defense Ministers called for an increased US military presence in the region, and specifically for basing US forces in the Philippines. Onodera said that &#8220;both sides agreed that the US presence is a very important public asset in East Asia.&#8221;

The Chinese embassy in Manila issued a statement Thursday, asking the Philippines and the United States &#8220;not to exacerbate tensions in the area.&#8221; Beijing&#8217;s response to Filipino-Japanese talks was sharper. Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi denounced them as the &#8220;path of confrontation,&#8221; stating that they are &#8220;doomed.&#8221; He added that countries that &#8220;try to reinforce their poorly grounded claims through the help of external forces&#8221; would find the strategy a &#8220;miscalculation not worth the effort.&#8221;

There is an escalating US intervention to include US allies in the region in military alliances directed against China. Recent years have not only seen Washington back Japanese claims on the Senkaku/Diaoyu islands, but also develop military bases in Australia and basing agreements for US littoral combat ships in Singapore.

Preparations to restore the basing of the US military in the Philippines have been long in the making. They were made public in January 2012, during the 2+2 meeting held in Washington between then-US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and Defense Secretary Leon Panetta and their Philippine counterparts . The details of the basing arrangements are now becoming clearer. Manila is preparing a 70-acre facility at the former Subic Naval Base to house US warships and fighter planes. Upgrades on the site will cost some US$230 million. An airbase is being prepared on Cagayan de Oro, on the southern island of Mindanao.

Some of these bases are now being prepared for Japanese troops and equipment, as well. While the troops stationed in the Philippines would be rotated in and out of the country, this would constitute the permanent stationing the so-called &#8216;self-defense forces&#8217; outside Japan. If carried through, this unprecedented move would mark the reemergence of Japan as an global imperialist military power.

This move is a further step in Tokyo&#8217;s long-standing drive to remilitarize Japan, with Washington&#8217;s backing. The Philippines have played a key role in this process. In December 2012, Philippine Foreign Secretary Albert del Rosario told the Financial Times that Manila would support the scrapping of the so-called pacifist clause in the Japanese constitution, which has inhibited Japanese remilitarization, citing tensions with China as the justification.

Gazmin said that Manila would &#8220;allow the United States, Japan and other allies access to its military bases under the plan to roll back China&#8217;s expansive claims in the West Philippine Sea [South China Sea].&#8221; What other &#8220;allies&#8221; were also discussing basing arrangements with the Philippines was not disclosed.

The twentieth century saw the Philippines subjected to the brutal colonial rule of two imperialist powers, the United States and Japan, both of which the Filipino ruling class collaborated with. Under the leadership of President Benigno Aquino, they are actively functioning as the proxies of the same imperialist powers. As Washington recklessly pursues its drive to encircle China, the Philippines is being prepared as the staging point for a global war.

The Philippine constitution explicitly bans all &#8220;foreign military bases, troops, or facilities.&#8221; This ban is being cynically circumvented by having the Philippine government maintain the base facilities, at which the foreign troops are stationed as so-called &#8220;guests.&#8221;
During the meeting between Onodera and Gazmin, Washington launched a six-day joint military training exercise with Philippines in South China Sea. Five hundred US military personnel and an equal number of Filipinos are engaged in a series of war games of a calculatedly provocative nature.

The USS Fitzgerald, a guided missile destroyer, and the BRP Gregorio del Pilar, the Philippine navy's flagship, staged naval maneuvers in waters less than 50 miles from the disputed shoal where Filipino marines are occupying a facility surrounded Chinese naval vessels. The exercise&#8217;s stated aim was &#8220;to intercept suspected enemy ships, board them and seize materials they may be carrying that could pose a danger to allies.&#8221;

The use of the terms &#8220;enemy ships&#8221; and &#8220;allies&#8221; is a marked escalation of rhetoric previously used to justify the war games. Previous war games allegedly targeted regional piracy, conducted rescue operations, or defended maritime trade. The 2013 Cooperation Afloat Readiness and Training (CARAT) exercises are now couched in the language of global war.

At Cavite naval base, six miles south of Manila, US military personnel trained their Filipino counterparts in the use of unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs). They launched and remotely guided Puma surveillance drones from a boat in the South China Sea. The Philippine navy also received training in naval gunnery.

The intensifying US military drive in the region finds expression in the fact that in first five months of 2013, 72 US warships and submarines have visited Subic Bay, compared with 88 for the entirety of 2012; 54 in 2011; and 51 in 2010, according to Filipino government figures.

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/06/29/phil-j29.html


----------



## Malaya

U.S. navy soldiers and their Philippine counterparts disembark from a speed boat after a surveillance operation training during a joint military exercises between the Philippines and the United States at the South China Sea, June 28, 2013. The Philippines and U.S. Naval forces began joint military exercises codenamed Cooperation Afloat Readiness and Training (CARAT) at the South China Sea on June 27 to enhance the capability of both sides through practical exercises and lectures.






*U.S. navy soldiers and their Philippine counterparts disembark from a speed boat after a surveillance operation training*






*A U.S. navy soldier (L) instructs his Philippine counterpart*





*
U.S. navy soldiers and their Philippine counterparts operate a boat *






*U.S. navy soldiers and their Philippine counterparts launch an unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) *

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

*The Philippines should prepare for a showdown. I believe it is more than just rhetoric. *



*China media warns Philippines of "counterstrike" in Sth China Sea*


BEIJING, June 29 | Fri Jun 28, 2013 10:36pm EDT





_New recruits of the Chinese Navy march with their guns during the parade marking the end of their first training session in Qingdao, Shandong province, March 4, 2013.
Credit: Reuters/Stringer_


(Reuters) - *China's state media* warned on Saturday that a "counterstrike" against the Philippines was inevitable if it continues to provoke Beijing in the South China Sea, potentially Asia's biggest military troublespot.

The warning comes as ministers from both countries attend an Association of Southeast Asian Nations meeting in Brunei, starting Saturday, which hopes to reach a legally binding code of conduct to manage maritime conduct in disputed areas.

At stake are potentially massive offshore oil reserves. The seas also lie on shipping lanes and fishing grounds.

Both China and the Philippines have been locked in a decades-old territorial squabble over the South China Sea, with tensions flaring after the Philippines moved new soldiers and supplies last week to a disputed coral reef, prompting Beijing to condemn Manila's "illegal occupation".

The overseas edition of the *People's Daily*, the official newspaper of the Chinese Communist Party, said in a front-page commentary that the Philippines had committed "seven sins" in the South China Sea.

These include the "illegal occupation" of the Spratly Islands, inviting foreign capital to engage in oil and gas development in the disputed waters and promoting the "internationalisation" of the waters, said the commentary.

The Philippines has called on the United States to act as a "patron", while ASEAN has become an "accomplice," said the commentary, which does not amount to official policy but can reflect the government's thinking.

*"The Philippines, knowing that it's weak, believes that 'a crying child will have milk to drink'," *the People's Daily said, accusing Manila of resorting to many "unscrupulous" tricks in the disputed waters.

Beijing's assertion of sovereignty over a vast stretch of the South China Sea has set it directly against Vietnam and the Philippines, while Brunei, Taiwan and Malaysia also lay claim to other parts of the sea.

The 10-member *ASEAN *hopes to reach a legally binding Code of Conduct to manage maritime conduct in disputed areas. For now a watered-down "Declaration of Conduct" is in place.

On Thursday, China's Foreign Minister Wang Yi warned that countries with territorial claims in the South China Sea that look for help from third parties will find their efforts "futile", adding that the path of confrontation would be "doomed".

Last week, China vowed to protect its sovereignty over the *Second Thomas Shoal*, known in China as the Ren'ai reef. The Philippines is accusing China of encroachment after three Chinese ships, including a naval frigate, converged just five nautical miles (nine km) from an old transport ship that Manila ran aground on a reef in 1999 to mark its territory.

Last year, China and the Philippines were locked in a tense two-month standoff at the Scarborough Shoal, which is only about 124 nautical miles off the Philippine coast. Chinese ships now control the shoal, often chasing away Filipino fishermen. (Reporting by Sui-Lee Wee; Editing by Michael Perry)


China media warns Philippines of counterstrike in Sth China Sea | Reuters


----------



## Viet

some pics from the Philippines, US in war games in the SC Sea, June 28, 2013.






_US destroyer USS Fitzgerald
_


----------



## Hellraiser007

What these Chinese are thinking themselves .....


----------



## Viet

Hellraiser007 said:


> What these Chinese are thinking themselves .....


They think China is the center of the world, as middle kingdom. Everything belongs to the Emperor, the son of heaven.


----------



## Hellraiser007

Viet said:


> They think China is the center of the world, as middle kingdom. Everything belongs to the Emperor, the son of heaven.



If they continue like this they will be doomed for sure, I like the present CCP it is digging it own grave .


* They are thinking by inflicting fear in the neighbors they can claim the lands with out war, But that is not going to happen.*


----------



## Zero_wing

Let them the Philippines will defend itself but we never give in we solve this problem with accordance with the UN charter and international law let the Imperial chinamen do what they will they will doom anyway

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## sweetouch

Viet said:


> *The Philippines should prepare for a showdown. I believe it is more than just rhetoric. *
> 
> 
> 
> *China media warns Philippines of "counterstrike" in Sth China Sea*
> 
> 
> BEIJING, June 29 | Fri Jun 28, 2013 10:36pm EDT
> 
> 
> _New recruits of the Chinese Navy march with their guns during the parade marking the end of their first training session in Qingdao, Shandong province, March 4, 2013.
> Credit: Reuters/Stringer_
> 
> 
> (Reuters) - *China's state media* warned on Saturday that a "counterstrike" against the Philippines was inevitable if it continues to provoke Beijing in the South China Sea, potentially Asia's biggest military troublespot.
> 
> The warning comes as ministers from both countries attend an Association of Southeast Asian Nations meeting in Brunei, starting Saturday, which hopes to reach a legally binding code of conduct to manage maritime conduct in disputed areas.
> 
> At stake are potentially massive offshore oil reserves. The seas also lie on shipping lanes and fishing grounds.
> 
> Both China and the Philippines have been locked in a decades-old territorial squabble over the South China Sea, with tensions flaring after the Philippines moved new soldiers and supplies last week to a disputed coral reef, prompting Beijing to condemn Manila's "illegal occupation".
> 
> The overseas edition of the *People's Daily*, the official newspaper of the Chinese Communist Party, said in a front-page commentary that the Philippines had committed "seven sins" in the South China Sea.
> 
> These include the "illegal occupation" of the Spratly Islands, inviting foreign capital to engage in oil and gas development in the disputed waters and promoting the "internationalisation" of the waters, said the commentary.
> 
> *The Philippines has called on the United States to act as a "patron", while ASEAN has become an "accomplice," *said the commentary, which does not amount to official policy but can reflect the government's thinking.
> 
> *"The Philippines, knowing that it's weak, believes that 'a crying child will have milk to drink'," *the People's Daily said, accusing Manila of resorting to many "unscrupulous" tricks in the disputed waters.
> 
> Beijing's assertion of sovereignty over a vast stretch of the South China Sea has set it directly against Vietnam and the Philippines, while Brunei, Taiwan and Malaysia also lay claim to other parts of the sea.
> 
> The 10-member *ASEAN *hopes to reach a legally binding Code of Conduct to manage maritime conduct in disputed areas. For now a watered-down "Declaration of Conduct" is in place.
> 
> On Thursday, China's Foreign Minister Wang Yi warned that countries with territorial claims in the South China Sea that look for help from third parties will find their efforts "futile", adding that the path of confrontation would be "doomed".
> 
> Last week, China vowed to protect its sovereignty over the *Second Thomas Shoal*, known in China as the Ren'ai reef. The Philippines is accusing China of encroachment after three Chinese ships, including a naval frigate, converged just five nautical miles (nine km) from an old transport ship that Manila ran aground on a reef in 1999 to mark its territory.
> 
> Last year, China and the Philippines were locked in a tense two-month standoff at the Scarborough Shoal, which is only about 124 nautical miles off the Philippine coast. Chinese ships now control the shoal, often chasing away Filipino fishermen. (Reporting by Sui-Lee Wee; Editing by Michael Perry)


how did ASEAN become accomplice?


----------



## Type 052D

Zero_wing said:


> Let them the Philippines will defend itself but we never give in we solve this problem with accordance with the UN charter and international law let the Imperial chinamen do what they will they will doom anyway



With what? Phinoy's military might !? You don't even an proper functioning 4th generation fighter aircraft!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## walle

Yawn.... How many times has pinoy barked, and china warned in response. This is getting boring, china is in control of the disputed area right now, if the pinoy wants come and take it and we will see what happens. Pinoys are sly faced little ungrateful shits, need a good smacking.

This type of crap will only continue yearly because pinoys and us conduct exercises annually. No country on this planet has an appetite going directly against china. The US rhetoric is filled with endless domestic politics, but they can't do **** all to china.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Fsjal

Philippines won't stand a chance against China.

Philippine military lacks the size and the firepower and tech to defend their islands from the Chinese.

All the Philippines can do is call their master to protect them.



Zero_wing said:


> Let them the Philippines will defend itself but we never give in we solve this problem with accordance with the UN charter and international law let the Imperial chinamen do what they will they will doom anyway



Your military does not even have any proper warship or even a true fighter jet.
Your military does not stand a chance. Even if the Philippine military was modernizing, still no chance, and why did it take so long to start the modernizing program?


----------



## Zero_wing

Type 052D said:


> With what? Phinoy's military might !? You don't even an proper functioning 4th generation fighter aircraft!



Dude did i say anything about military might see what your problem is? you think force can solve your problems and forcing people to your will not help you you figure it out for yourselves if you people have a brain cell left


----------



## Zero_wing

Fsjal said:


> Philippines won't stand a chance against China.
> 
> Philippine military lacks the size and the firepower and tech to defend their islands from the Chinese.
> 
> All the Philippines can do is call their master to protect them.
> 
> 
> 
> Your military does not even have any proper warship or even a true fighter jet.
> Your military does not stand a chance. Even if the Philippine military was modernizing, still no chance, and why did it take so long to start the modernizing program?



Yes we do they are old though but more are coming the Goyo class (Hamilton class) are just for fill in for the real thing warships take years to make laying making testing and deliver i guess due to your country's poor safety and rush system making anything you making more the question is how do they far in the real world? as for the modernization we have a lot of projects line up and non of them can be brought and use time and money so of who can rip off some unlike your cheap copying country can and again we are not matching china unlike you people we live the real world we do what we can and what our limited budget can bring and i think many Filipinos already told you imperial wanna be's chekwas peke that we are after credible defense and diplomacy and using international law meaning just to defend ourselves and our approach to the problem you people made is diplomacy and international law not to take again NOT to take china on with military buying free its impossible we are still doing a diplomatic approach in accordance with international law and the UN Charter which from what i can i tell you chekwas no nothing about just threats and military pictures that provides military intel on your so called peaceful ahem liar (aggressive) rise



sweetouch said:


> how did ASEAN become accomplice?



Its a mouth piece its not real news just propaganda let them say what they want to at less you know what china really is


----------



## Viet

Zero_wing said:


> Let them the Philippines will defend itself but we never give in we solve this problem with accordance with the UN charter and international law let the Imperial chinamen do what they will
> they will doom anyway


Good luck to you, all the best from Vietnam. The Chinese begin to behave badly, insulting not only the Philippines, but others calling ASEAN as accomplice.


----------



## Viet

walle said:


> Yawn.... How many times has pinoy barked, and *china warned in response*. This is getting boring, china is in control of the disputed area right now, if the pinoy wants come and take it and we will see what happens. Pinoys are sly faced little ungrateful shits, need a good smacking.
> 
> This type of crap will only continue yearly because pinoys and us conduct exercises annually. No country on this planet has an appetite going directly against china. The US rhetoric is filled with endless domestic politics, but they can't do **** all to china.


well, if it remains just a war rhetoric, than we all can relax, can´t we?


----------



## Zero_wing

Viet said:


> Good luck to you, all the best from Vietnam. The Chinese begin to behave badly, insulting not only the Philippines, but others calling ASEAN as accomplice.



Let them be concentrate on defense building and international mechanism let the fools be


----------



## Viet

Zero_wing said:


> Let them be concentrate on defense building and international mechanism let the fools be


don´t rely too much on uncle Sam, build up your strength. The cowards and betrayer deserted her ally South Vietnam in the battle of Paracels in 1974.


----------



## EastSea

Viet said:


> don´t rely too much on uncle Sam, build up your strength. The cowards and betrayer deserted her ally South Vietnam in the battle of Paracels in 1974.



It was not so simple, Uncla Sam known well that he can return to region in future.


----------



## Fsjal

Zero_wing said:


> Yes we do they are old though but more are coming the Goyo class (Hamilton class) are just for fill in for the real thing warships take years to make laying making testing and deliver i guess due to your country's *poor safety* and rush system making anything you making more the question is how do they far in the real world? as for the modernization we have a lot of projects line up and non of them can be brought and use time and money so of who can rip off some unlike your cheap copying country can and again we are not matching china unlike you people we live the real world we do what we can and what our limited budget can bring and i think many Filipinos already told you imperial wanna be's chekwas peke that we are after credible defense and diplomacy and using international law meaning just to defend ourselves and our approach to the problem you people made is diplomacy and international law not to take again NOT to take china on with military buying free its impossible we are still doing a diplomatic approach in accordance with international law and the UN Charter which from what i can i tell you chekwas no nothing about just threats and military pictures that provides military intel on your so called peaceful ahem liar (aggressive) rise
> 
> 
> 
> Its a mouth piece its not real news just propaganda let them say what they want to at less you know what china really is



"Poor Safety"?

Oh please, have you seen the warships? Have you seen the inside of a Type 052C destroyer or Type 056 corvette, which is better then the inside of the BRP Ramon Alcaraz and BRP Gregorio Del Pilar. 

And these ships are safe. The reason why they are quickly made is because the workers work hard to finish them. Anyway, the Chinese navy takes great care, compare to Philippines.

The Goyo class don't need to get shot by missiles. They can sink themselves.


----------



## Viet

EastSea said:


> It was not so simple, Uncla Sam known well that he can return to region in future.


You never know for sure about America, neither China. They surely don´t want to destroy each other, and could work an agreement out, and uncle Sam would leave her allies, now Japan, S Korea, Taiwan and the Philippines alone in their fate.


----------



## Zero_wing

Fsjal said:


> "Poor Safety"?
> 
> Oh please, have you seen the warships? Have you seen the inside of a Type 052C destroyer or Type 056 corvette, which is better then the inside of the BRP Ramon Alcaraz and BRP Gregorio Del Pilar.
> 
> And these ships are safe. The reason why they are quickly made is because the workers work hard to finish them. Anyway, the Chinese navy takes great care, compare to Philippines.
> 
> The Goyo class don't need to get shot by missiles. They can sink themselves.



Oh please spare me your idiocy one do think we want to fire the first well just wait forever that is for sure you be doing it then do it your post just point out how brainless you and kind are



Viet said:


> don´t rely too much on uncle Sam, build up your strength. The cowards and betrayer deserted her ally South Vietnam in the battle of Paracels in 1974.



We are not if you can see how we are modernizing but we have limited time and money we have other priorities too let them talk the talk and not walk this losers are just morons with cheap copies but am not saying they not dangerous but am saying let them dig their own graves for their aggression.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

VPA Navy HQ-11 vs PLAN 570

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Malaya

*PHL: Chinese military in South China Sea threatens peace*
June 30, 2013 

BANDAR SERI BEGAWAN - The Philippines said Sunday that an increasing Chinese military and paramilitary presence in the disputed South China Sea was a threat to regional peace.

Foreign Affairs Secretary Albert Del Rosario made the statement in a press release issued at a regional security forum attended by his counterparts from the 10-member Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) and China.

"Del Rosario today expressed serious concern over the increasing militarization of the South China Sea," the statement said.

He said there was a "massive presence of Chinese military and paramilitary ships" at two groups of islets within the Philippines' exclusive economic zone called Scarborough Shoal and Second Thomas Shoal.

Del Rosario described the Chinese military presence at these islets as "threats to efforts to maintain maritime peace and stability in the region."

Del Rosario said the Chinese actions violated a pact made in 2002 in which rival claimants to the sea pledged not to take any actions that may increase tensions.

The declaration on conduct signed by ASEAN nations and China also committed rival claimants to resolve their disputes "without resorting to the threat or use of force."

"We reiterate our continued advocacy for a peaceful and rules-based settlement of disputes in accordance with universally recognised principles of international law," Del Rosario said.

China claims nearly all of the strategically vital and potentially resource-rich South China Sea, even waters approaching the coasts of neighbouring countries.

ASEAN members the Philippines, Vietnam, Brunei and Malaysia, as well as Taiwan, also have competing claims to parts of the sea.

The rivalries have for decades been a source of regional tension, with China and Vietnam fighting deadly battles for control of some islands in the sea.

Tensions have built in recent years with the Philippines, Vietnam and some other countries expressing concern at increasingly assertive Chinese military and diplomatic tactics to assert control of the sea.

Manila says China has effectively occupied Scarborough Shoal, a rich fishing ground far closer to Philippine land than Chinese, for more than a year.

The Philippines says China has recently also deployed vessels to intimidate a tiny Philippine garrison on Second Thomas Shoal that has been stationed there since the mid 1990s. &#8212; Agence France-Presse


----------



## Fsjal

Soryu said:


> VPA Navy HQ-11 vs PLAN 570



Wait, when did China and Vietnam start sending warships near each other?

Anyway, I wonder who will win?


----------



## Malaya

*Any use of force in South China Sea not acceptable to India: Salman Khurshid*
Sachin Parashar, TNN | Jul 1, 2013

BANDAR SERI BEGAWAN: Ahead of India-ASEAN Post Ministerial Conference, foreign minister Salman Khurshid on Monday said India will reject any use of force in the South China Sea where several Asean countries are locked in a territorial dispute with China. Later in the day, Khurshid will also have a bilateral meeting with his Chinese counterpart Wang Yi.

Khurshid was replying to a query here about India's position about the call for a freedom of navigation by some Asean nations for a code of conduct in South China Sea. 

"The Code of conduct is a work in progress but at part of the broad principles, we support freedom of navigation in South China Sea; the use of force is something which India rejects,'' said Khurshid. 

The ongoing 46th Asean foreign ministers' meeting here has seen China, in a bid to prevent further escalation of strife, agreeing to hold official consultations over the issue. This was after Beijing's latest stand-off with Philippines which saw its foreign minister accusing China of increasing militarization in the region. 

Apart from his bilateral with Wang, Khurshid is slated to have 9 other bilateral meetings Monday, including with his counterparts from Bangladesh, Canada, Cambodia and North Korea. About his meeting with the North Korean foreign minister, Khurshid said he was looking to firmly'' convey India's message over the issue of non-proliferation.


----------



## Malaya

*Spanish military offers aid to modernize AFP*






Spain&#8217;s Vice-Minister of Defense Constantino Mendez Martinez said his country is willing to provide equipment to help modernize the Armed Forces of the Philippines (AFP). Martinez arrived in the Philippines last Sunday accompanied by Spanish military officials to meet with officials of the military and the defense department. He was also accompanied by executives of several Spanish companies engaged in the supply and services of defense systems engineering consultancy; information systems and electronic radars; aircraft; ammunition and mortars; and disasters and emergency situations. 

Martinez said Spain has naval and air assets that may be offered to the Philippines upon the request of the AFP. 

The Aquino administration has vowed to support the AFP&#8217;s capability upgrade program to boost its territorial defense capabilities. 

The government aims to acquire lead-in jet trainers, surface attack aircraft, air defense radars, long-range patrol aircraft and closed air support aircraft for the Air Force. It also seeks to buy new equipment for the Army. 

Not to be left out, the Navy will be provided with strategic sea-lift vessels with amphibious capability, off-shore patrol vessels, naval helicopters, coast watch stations, and weather-heavy endurance cutters.


----------



## Malaya

*Kerry affirms US' commitment to Asia Pacific*
Published on Jul 01, 2013	
*
US Secretary of State John Kerry has given ASEAN countries and the Asia Pacific community the United States' strongest commitment of its involvement in the security and stability of the region.*






BANDAR SERI BEGAWAN: US Secretary of State John Kerry has given ASEAN countries and the Asia Pacific community the United States' strongest commitment of its involvement in the security and stability of the region.

Addressing ASEAN's foreign ministers at the ASEAN-US dialogue in Brunei on Monday, Mr Kerry said the US hopes to increase its efforts in this regard.

He said some people have wondered whether in the second term of the Obama administration and with a new Secretary of State, if the US was going to continue on the path that it has been on as far as the Asia Pacific region is concerned.

Mr Kerry said he wants to put those concerns to rest.

He explained, "We are committed to ensure a peaceful, stable and prosperous Southeast Asia and that is why we are working together on a whole range of traditional and non-traditional security issues from wildlife trafficking to human trafficking, to non-proliferation, humanitarian assistance and disaster relief and so much more.

*"As a Pacific nation, we take our responsibilities seriously and we will continue to build an active and enduring presence in every respect and one of the most important ways we will do that is in our partnership with all of you through ASEAN."*

In particular, Mr Kerry said the US is focused on two issues of concern - maritime security and cyber security.

The Asia-Pacific region, he said is home to the world's busiest ports and critical sea lanes.

He said what happened in the region matters to the US and the global community.

Turning to the South China Sea disputes, Mr Kerry elaborated, "With regards to the South China Sea, I would say this. As a Pacific nation and the resident power, the United States has a national interest in the maintenance of peace and stability, respect for international law, unimpeded lawful commerce and freedom of navigation in the South China Sea.

*"While we do not take a position on a competing territorial claim, we have a strong interest in the manner in which the disputes in the South China Sea are addressed and in the conduct of the parties. We very much hope to see progress soon on a substantive Code of Conduct in order to help maintain stability in this vital region."*

The US is also working with ASEAN to improve cyber security and combat cyber crime.

Mr Kerry said the US is very eager to help ASEAN member states build capacity in this area to ensure that all countries are protected against cyber threats and reduce the risks these threats carry.

He feels that a significant part of the 21st century history will be written in Asia and much of it will be written in Southeast Asia and that is why the US believes that its relations with ASEAN is of the highest importance.

Addressing three areas - economic opportunities, political security and people-to people ties, Mr Kerry said the US supports ASEAN's economic integration goals and it is strongly encouraging the grouping as it pursues them.

He said: "We recognise the strong economic dynamism of your region and people and as it is true everywhere, we are only going to be able to capture the energy of Southeast Asia in its massive and growing, overwhelmingly young population, if we answer their aspirations. We support ASEAN's goals of dynamic integrated economies and establishing the ASEAN Economic Community by the end of 2015 and we will invest significantly in technical assistance to support these goals."

Mr Kerry said President Barack Obama is very much looking forward to his visit to Brunei in October for the East Asia Summit.

Kerry affirms US' commitment to Asia Pacific - Channel NewsAsia

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Malaya

*US warship goes on &#8216;PATROL&#8217; mode*
By Florante S. Solmerin | Posted on Jun. 30, 2013







The United States has deployed a warship to patrol its area of responsibility in the Asia-Pacific region, according to an article posted on the 7th Fleet website.

&#8220;The forward-deployed amphibious assault ship USS Bonhomme Richard completed embarkation of Marines from the 31st Marine Expeditionary Unit (MEU) in support of joint force operations in the U.S. 7th Fleet area of responsibility, &#8221; the website said in its June 25 post.

USS Bonhomme Richard was loaded with &#8220;more than 100 vehicles and 300 pieces of equipment after weeks of preparations before it left Sasebo, Japan, it said.

The warship deployed after American forces and Philippine troops began their annual military exercises in an area near the Scarborough Shoal, which China insists it owns.

The US presence in the Asia Pacific is very important, according to Japanese Defense Minister Itsunori Onodera, speaking to reporters after a meeting with his Philippine counterpart Votaire Gazmin.

&#8220;The US presence is very important. We talked about rebalance strategy of United States but we did not talk about any in the future specific equipment of the US forces,&#8221; he said.

The two officials discussed the possibility of a joint hosting of aerial exercises with the US MV-22 Osprey aircraft.

Gazmin said the government can possibly forge an agreement based on the Visiting Forces Agreement to give greater access to military base and facilities of visiting American and Japanese forces.

USS Bonhomme Richard was loaded with equipment and troops as well as logistics.

&#8220;This patrol will also feature MV-22 Osprey tiltrotor aircraft, assigned to Marine Medium Tiltrotor Squadron (VMM) 265, embarked as part of the ACE for its first forward-deployed patrol with Bonhomme Richard,&#8221; the article said.

The former USS Guardian minesweeper that met its demise on Tubbataha Reef in Sulu Sea, Palawan belonged to the naval fleet.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Malaya

*Aquino vows to rebuild air force by 2016*
Agence France-Presse
07/01/2013 






*MANILA - Philippine President Benigno Aquino vowed Monday to acquire fighter jets, air defense radar and other equipment within three years to bolster the country's weak air force, amid a territorial dispute with China.*

*"I assure you that before I step down from office, our skies will be guarded by modern air assets," *he said in a speech during a visit at an air base in Clark, north of Manila. The speech was broadcast live on radio and television.

*Among these are "lead-in fighters, long-range patrol aircraft, close-air-support aircraft", as well as transport planes, attack- and multi-use helicopters, air defense radar and flight simulators.*

He gave no details of the aircraft and equipment, or the terms for their acquisition.

In January an Aquino spokesman announced the government would buy 12 South Korean FA-50 fighter jets to be used for "training, interdiction and disaster response".

The Philippines, a former US colony, retired the last of its US-designed F-5 fighters in 2005 and lacks air defense.

Aquino, whose-six-year term ends in mid-2016, has set about modernizing the military in his first three years in office as tensions rise with China over overlapping territorial claims to islands and waters in the West Philippine Sea (South China Sea).

The main focus was initially the navy with the acquisition of two Hamilton-class cutters decommissioned by the US Coast Guard.

The first of the two refurbished vessels became the Philippine Navy's flagship in 2011, replacing a warship initially built for the US Navy in World War II.

The second cutter is set to arrive in the Philippines later this year.

Aquino said Monday he was committed to reversing the under-spending on military capability that he said had characterized the Philippines since the early 1990s.

"Over the past decades the air force had its wings broken and we relied on old and rickety planes and equipment," he said.

Parliament has since authorized the defense department to spend 75 billion pesos ($1.7 billion) on modernizing the military over the next five years, Aquino added.

This is on top the more than 19 billion pesos that it had spent over the past three years for this purpose.

Between 1992 and 2010, the Philippines had spent just 33 billion pesos for military modernization, Aquino said.

http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/nation/07/01/13/aquino-vows-rebuild-air-force-2016


----------



## Malaya

*&#8216;China action threat to peace&#8217;*
By AFP | Jul. 01, 2013






*DFA chief: Sino buildup violated &#8216;02 declaration*

THE Philippines accused China on Sunday of a massive military buildup in the disputed South China Sea, warning at a regional security forum that the Asian giant&#8217;s tactics were a threat to peace.

The statement by Foreign Secretary Albert Del Rosario ensured that the growing row over rival claims to the strategically vital and potentially resource-rich sea would again be a key focus of the annual four-day ministerial meeting of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN).

&#8220;Del Rosario today expressed serious concern over the increasing militarization of the South China Sea,&#8221; said a Philippine government statement released on the first day of the event in the Brunei capital.

Del Rosario said there was a &#8220;massive presence of Chinese military and paramilitary ships&#8221; at two groups of islets within the Philippines&#8217; exclusive economic zone, called Scarborough Shoal and Ayungin (Second Thomas) Shoal.

Del Rosario described the Chinese presence at these islets as &#8220;threats to efforts to maintain maritime peace and stability in the region.&#8221;

He said the persistence of destabilizing actions in the South China Sea posed serious challenges for the entire region.

Del Rosario did not give details of the alleged buildup but said the Chinese actions violated a pact in 2002 in which rival claimants to the sea pledged not to take any actions that may increase tensions.

The Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea signed by the 10-member ASEAN and China also committed claimants to settle their disputes &#8220;without resorting to the threat or use of force.&#8221;

China claims nearly all of the sea, even waters approaching the coasts of neighboring countries.

ASEAN members the Philippines, Vietnam, Brunei and Malaysia, as well as Taiwan, also have competing claims to parts of the sea.

The rivalries have been a source of regional tension for decades, with China and Vietnam fighting battles in 1974 and 1988 for control of some islands in which dozens of Vietnamese soldiers died.

Tensions have again grown in recent years with the Philippines, Vietnam and some other countries expressing concern at increasingly assertive Chinese military and diplomatic tactics to stress control of the sea.

Setting the tone for the Brunei event, a powerful arm of China&#8217;s state-run media warned the Philippines on Saturday that its defiance could lead to aggressive Chinese action.

&#8220;If the Philippines continues to provoke China&#8230; a counterstrike will be hard to avoid,&#8221; said a commentary run by the People&#8217;s Daily, the mouthpiece of the ruling Communist Party.

Del Rosario on Sunday expressed alarm at such rhetoric.

&#8220;The statement on counterstrike is an irresponsible one. We condemn any threats of use of force. We condemn that. And we continue to pursue the resolution of our disputes in a peaceful way,&#8221; he said.

ASEAN has been trying for more than a decade to secure agreement from China on a legally binding code of conduct that would govern actions in the South China Sea.

China has resisted agreeing to the code, wary of making any concessions that may weaken its claim to the sea.

Nevertheless, Indonesian Foreign Minister Marty Natalegawa said ASEAN would continue to press its case with China in Brunei.

&#8220;We will be really zeroing in on the need for the code of conduct,&#8221; Natalegawa told reporters on Saturday.

The talks will expand on Monday and Tuesday to include the United States, China, Japan, Russia and other countries across the Asia-Pacific, providing the platform for face-to-face diplomacy on many of the world&#8217;s hot-button issues.

US Secretary of State John Kerry is expected to hold a series of rapid-fire meetings with his counterparts from the world&#8217;s major powers, including Russia&#8217;s Sergei Lavrov and China&#8217;s Wang Yi.

The United States has been frustrated in recent weeks by perceived Chinese and Russian help for fugitive intelligence leaker Edward Snowden, who is at Moscow&#8217;s airport after being allowed to leave the Chinese territory of Hong Kong.

Japanese Foreign Minister Fumio Kishida and his South Korean counterpart, Yun Byung-Se, are also set to hold direct talks in Brunei, the first ministerial meeting between the two countries under their new governments. With Macon Ramos-Araneta

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Malaya

*Give Australia, ASEAN access to PH bases*
BY CARMELA FONBUENA
07/01/2013 






MANILA, Philippines - Former defense secretary Gilberto Teodoro Jr supports a government plan to give the United States and Japan more access to Philippine military bases. He said the same access should be given to Australia and ASEAN countries.

"I favor optimizing access to Philippine bases not only for Japan and the US, but also for other friendly States, such as the ASEAN states and Australia," Teodoro told Rappler on Monday, July 1, when asked to comment on the government plan.

"This will facilitate confidence building and interoperability between our forces and those of others," Teodoro added.

Defense Secretary Voltaire Gazmin said the government is drafting plans to allow US forces to spend extended time on the Philippines' military bases. He said the same plan will be offered to Japan's military.

*READ: PH wants to give US, Japan access to bases*

Teodoro argued defense exchanges have various benefits, including assisting the Philippine government in improving its disaster preparedness.

"This is useful not merely for traditional defense concerns but also for non-traditional ones such as Humaniatarian Assistance and Disaster Response (HADR), Peace Keeping Operations (PKO), and responding to pandemics, to name a few," Teodoro said in an e-mail to Rappler.

Teodoro ran for president in 2010 but lost to his cousin, President Benigno Aquino III. He continues to speak on security and defense-related matters.

*Concerned camps*

Various camps are critical of the government's plan to open access to its bases, notably the one in Subic, Olongapo City. Leftist group Bayan called on government and various sectors to "reject US intervention and manipulation."

"The Philippine government is grossly mistaken if it thinks that the US is the key to defending our national sovereignty. The US is merely out to take advantage of the dispute so that it can position itself strategically in Asia," Bayan said in a statement on Sunday, June 30.

The Philippine Daily Inquirer also ran a July 1 editorial critical of the plan. It reads: "A decision to host allied military forces inside Philippine bases, however, should not be taken lightly; meetings and supply arrangements and joint exercises can all be justified as the Armed Forces of the Philippines&#8217; belated attempts at capacity-building. Allowing foreign troops from allies with a stake in the ongoing South China Sea disputes to operate in and&#8212;the crucial difference&#8212;from Philippine military bases is much harder to rationalize."

Teodoro said what's important is for government to craft policy guidelines that will guarantee the protection of Philippine interests.

"I used the term optimizing in order to underscore the importance of having carefully crafted policy guidelines on the matter, which shall take into account our national and international interests, responsibilities, and obligations," he explained.

*Aggressive China*

The plan to give the US and Japan more access to the country's military bases comes at a difficult time for Philippine-China relations.

On Saturday, June 29, China's state-run media warned that the Philippines should brace itself for a possible "counterstrike should Beijing continue to be provoked in the South China Sea (West Philippine Sea).

The Philippines has accused China of "massive" military buildup in the disputed West Philippine Sea. In a statement released on the first day of the annual Asia-Pacific talks in Brunei, the Philippines warned that the Asian giant's tactics threatened peace in the region.

Japan earlier pledged to help the Philippines defend its "remote islands," as both governments expressed concern over China's robust moves to stake its claims to disputed Asian waters.

*READ: Japan vows to help PH amid China Sea row*

"We agreed that we will further cooperate in terms of the defense of remote islands... the defense of territorial seas as well as protection of maritime interests," Japanese Defense Minister Itsunori Onodera told a joint news conference.

The Philippine military also recently held war games with the United States near the disputed Scarborough Shoal. It is a part of a 6-day Cooperation Afloat Readiness and Training (CARAT) exercises that involved 3 US Navy vessels, including the USS Fitzgerald, a guided missile destroyer.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Malaya

*AFP modernization now making significant headway
*
By Priam Nepomuceno






MANILA, July 01 (PNA) -- Like a phoenix slowly rising from the ashes, the Armed Forces of the Philippines is making significant headway in developing its minimum-credible deterrent capability.

This is also called the ability to forestall attempts by intruders attempting to violate the country's maritime, aerial and land territories, thanks to the commitment given by President Benigno S. Aquino III to the military.

The latter allocated around P75 billion to modernize the AFP. This money will be spent within five years.

"It is a step forward, a keen capability upgrade for all of our forces. We may not be comparable to other countries in the totality of equipage but the (modernization) program addresses a lot of our tactical and operational needs," AFP spokesperson Brig. Gen. Domingo Tutaan said of the development.

Highlighting this focus is the BRP Ramon Alcaraz (PF-16), the second Hamilton-class cutter acquired by the Aquino administration from the Americans, is now on its way home and is expected to be in Philippine territory by first week of August.

The Aquino government utilized more than USD15 million in refurbishing and re-equipping this ship.

The ship, which naval experts said is more heavily-armed that its sistership, the BRP Gregorio Del Pilar (PF-15), is expected to be in service by next September.

It is expected to improve the country's domain awareness capability or the capacity to detect, deter and pursue intruders in the Philippines' vast territorial waters

Aside from the BRP Ramon Alcaraz, the Philippine Navy is expecting the delivery of three AW-109 naval choppers by December courtesy of AgustaWestland.

As of this posting, the flight and maintenance crew of these aircraft are now undergoing training at Sesto Calende, Italy (and) these are avionics and maintenance trainings.

"The PN is also very thankful to the present administration for the continued support that the Navy is receiving," PN spokesperson Lt. Cmdr. Gregory Fabic stressed emphasized.

The contract for the three AW-109 naval helicopters were signed last April and will be delivered this coming December.

These choppers are worth around P1.33 billion.

"With the support we are getting from the present administration and the capability upgrade and modernization efforts in place, the officers and men of the PN are esteemed to serve the country and the people," he added.

Aside from these, Fabic said equipment in the pipeline includes three more multi-purpose assault craft, a anti-submarine helicopter, engineering and other support equipment.

Recently, the Dept. of National Defense announced that it is allocating P4-billion for two strategic sealift vessels and another P18-billion to acquire two brand-new missile-firing frigates as to fully boost the deterrent capability of the PN.

Fabic's earlier sentiments was also echoed by Philippine Air Force spokesperson Col. Miguel Ernesto Okol who stressed that he is very confident with the way the Aquino government is conducting the AFP's modernization.

"Most of (big) ticket items (equipment upgrade for the PAF) we have requested for has been approved," he added.

This includes the so-called surface attack aircraft, lead-in fighter aircraft, surveillance radars, medium lift and light transport and long-range patrol aircraft.

Recently, the PAF has completed the delivery of its eight W-3A "Sokol" combat utility helicopters with the last four being delivered last Nov. 26, 2012 and Feb. 17 this year.

The first batch of four was delivered in sometimes in 2011. These "Sokols' were commissioned and place in PAF service in March 9, 2012.

Aside from this, the Air Force has also beefed up the number of Lockheed C-130 "Hercules" aircraft from one to three, thanks to the ongoing modernization and upgrade programs.

The additional C-130s were activated during the latter part of 2012.

Besides this, DND observers said that the Philippines is now on the closing stages of the contract regarding the acquisition of 12 South Korean F/A -50 "Golden Eagle" jet aircraft which is touted to be the PAF's interim fighter aircraft.

It has allocated P18 billion for this program.

The Government Procurement Policy Board earlier gave the DND the "green-light" to start pre-negotiations with the South Korean government for 12 F/A 50 aircraft last January.

This boost to Philippine military equippage was made possible by the Dec. 11, 2012 signing of President Aquino signing of Republic Act No. 10349 which amends Republic Act No. 7898 or the AFP Modernization Act.

The amendment will "boost the AFP's capability upgrade program as it shifts from internal to external defense capability."

With the passage of the law, the military will be able to push for the acquisition of equipment which is listed in our medium term (2013-2017) acquisition list.

"(This amendment will extend) the implementation of our modernization and capability upgrade program will also provide greater opportunities and enough time for us to finally achieve a minimum credible defense posture which will help us in better fulfilling our mandate to protect the people and the state," the AFP stressed.

Republic Act No. 10349 has a budget of P75 billion for the first five years of implementation subject to the capacity of the DND to utilize and implement the program in accordance with the Defense System of Management.

The new law exempts certain major defense purchases such as aircraft, vessels, tanks, armored vehicles, communications equipment and high-powered firearms from public bidding.

It also exempts from value-added tax and customs duties the sale and importation of weapons, equipment and ammunition to the AFP which are directly and exclusively used for its projects, undertakings, activities and programs.

Republic Act 10349 also institutionalizes the defense system of management, which incorporates a collegial and collaborative planning and decision-making process by senior defense and military leaders.

It also allows additional funding from public-private partnerships entered into by the DND as well as multi-year contracts.

This law will hopefully repair the damage caused by long years of neglect to the military which during the 1960s up to the 70's was considered to be Southeast Asia's best.

DND undersecretary for finance, munitions, installations, and materiel Fernando Manalo earlier said that the signing and passage of the revised AFP Modernization Act will definitely make the military more capable of carrying out its constitutional mandate.

"This law will give the AFP a minimal credible deterrent posture," he emphasized.

Aside from defense equipment, engineering and search-and-rescue materiel will also be acquired, Manalo pointed out, giving the Philippines more assets in its peace and community development. (PNA)
HBC/PFN

http://www.pna.gov.ph/index.php?idn&sid&nid&rid=539672

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Malaya

*China threats unacceptable*
Published: 2 Jul 2013 

*Chinese officials began their meeting with Asean foreign ministers in Brunei this week by accusing their 10 neighbours of an anti-Beijing conspiracy over disputed South China Sea territory. China singled out the Philippines, calling Manila a provocateur and threatening war.*

It was hardly a display of Chinese diplomacy at its best. Now, China has agreed to discuss a code of conduct with ASEAN, but Beijing clearly is going to take a hard line in the talks.

Read more at China threats unacceptable | Bangkok Post: opinion


----------



## Malaya

*Amid South China Sea tension, PH calls for more ASEAN-US ties on maritime security*
By: InterAksyon.com
July 2, 2013 






*MANILA - Amid the Philippines&#8217; unresolved territorial dispute with China, Foreign Affairs Secretary Albert del Rosario has called for an expanded ASEAN-United States cooperation on maritime security.*

Del Rosario issued the call in his address of the ASEAN-US Post Ministerial Conference in Bandar Seri Begawan, Brunei Darussalam on Monday, noting that maritime security is gaining greater importance in the dialogue partnership.

His suggestion, contained in a news release from the Department of Foreign Affairs, came a few days after he accused China of militarizing the South China Sea (or West Philippine Sea to the Philippines). Del Rosario pointed to "massive presence of Chinese military and paramilitary ships" at two groups of islets within the Philippines' exclusive economic zone called Scarborough Shoal and Second Thomas Shoal. He described the Chinese military presence at these islets as "threats to efforts to maintain maritime peace and stability in the region."

*&#8220;To prevent disputes from escalating into conflict,&#8221;* del Rosario also called for the *&#8220;full and effective implementation&#8221; of the ASEAN-China Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea (DOC) in the meantime that a regional code of conduct is yet to be negotiated and concluded.*

The pact, which was signed in 2002, enjoins all claimants from actions that would tend to escalate tension in the area. However, it will be noted that according to Philippine authorities, since April last year, Chinese fishing vessels continue to occupy the Scarborough Shoals off Zambales, keeping Filipino fishermen from the fish-rich outcrop.

At the same time, Chinese authorities have bristled at the joint naval exercises of the Philippines and the United States near the Scarborough Schoal, which is 230 kilometers (140 miles) east of Luzon and 1,200 kilometers from the nearest major Chinese landmass.

China claims nearly all of the strategically vital South China Sea, even waters close to the shores of its smaller neighbors.

Tensions between China and other claimants to the sea, particularly the Philippines and Vietnam, have escalated in recent years amid a series of Chinese political and military actions to assert its claims to the waters.

Amid South China Sea tension, PH calls for more ASEAN-US ties on maritime security - InterAksyon.com


----------



## Malaya

*Gazmin on China threat: Irresponsible*
By Jaime Laude (The Philippine Star) 
July 2, 2013 






*MANILA, Philippines - Beijing was being &#8220;irresponsible&#8221; by threatening a &#8220;counterstrike&#8221; in response to the Philippines&#8217; offering its allies access to its air and naval facilities, Defense Secretary Voltaire Gazmin said yesterday.*

Gazmin said that while he is not worried about China&#8217;s threat, he is exhorting Beijing to be more circumspect and not to resort to intimidation and coercion in settling disputes with the Philippines and its neighbors.

Gazmin issued the statement shortly before flying to Clark air base to attend the celebration of the 66th anniversary of the Philippine Air Force.

On Saturday, the People&#8217;s Daily &#8211; the mouthpiece of the ruling Chinese Communist Party &#8211; said the Philippines was inviting a counterstrike for &#8220;provoking&#8221; Beijing.

*In a commentary, the newspaper also accused the Philippines of making the Association of Southeast Asian Nations an &#8220;accomplice&#8221; in the &#8220;violation&#8221; of China&#8217;s &#8220;sovereignty&#8221; over some islets and shoals in the West Philippine Sea.*

Related story: Chinese news analyst calls Phl a 'troublemaker' in SE Asia

Gazmin said he agrees with Foreign Affairs Secretary Albert del Rosario&#8217;s reprimanding Beijing and reminding it of the preeminence of international law in settling issues.

Del Rosario had also said China&#8217;s provocative statement had no place among civilized nations.

DFA spokesman Raul Hernandez said China is obliged under international laws, specifically the United Nations Charter, &#8220;to pursue a peaceful resolution of disputes &#8211; meaning without the use of force or the threat to use force.&#8221;

*&#8220;We call on China to be a responsible member in the community of nations,&#8221;* Hernandez said.

The People&#8217;s Daily said that among the &#8220;sins&#8221; committed by the Philippines were its &#8220;illegal occupation&#8221; of the Kalayaan Island Group, inviting foreign companies to engage in oil and gas development in the disputed waters and internationalizing the territorial conflict.

The commentary said that if Manila continues to assert its position on the issue, &#8220;a counterstrike will be hard to avoid.&#8221;

China, citing what it calls historical facts, has been laying claim to almost the entire South China Sea and West Philippine Sea. Aside from the Philippines and China, Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan also have claims in the potentially resource rich areas in the South China Sea and West Philippine Sea.

A senior administration lawmaker, for his part, described China&#8217;s &#8220;counterstrike&#8221; threat as &#8220;saber rattling.&#8221;

&#8220;That&#8217;s all there is to it. I don&#8217;t think China would want to start a war that may have imponderable consequences,&#8221; Isabela Rep. Giorgidi Aggabao, a member of the House committee on foreign affairs in the 15th Congress, said.

Aggabao said such a counterstrike would, for one thing, inevitably push Japan to rearm.

For another, the US will have a pretext to hasten its &#8220;pivot to Asia.&#8221;

&#8220;In sum, it would not be in the interest of China to strike,&#8221; he said.

*Mutually beneficial*

In a press briefing, DFA&#8217;s Hernandez said the Philippines would open its bases to the United States only if it would be sure of benefits. He also stressed that such an arrangement would be in accordance with the Philippine Constitution and pertinent laws.

He said discussions on the matter are ongoing, particularly on an increased rotational presence of US forces in the country.

&#8220;We continue to talk and define with the US the parameters of this rotational presence,&#8221; Hernandez said.

&#8220;Most of the activities now that we have with the US fall under the Mutual Defense Treaty (MDT) and the Visiting Forces Agreement (VFA),&#8221; he added.

&#8220;What is important is whatever policies we are able to negotiate with the US, it should be mutually beneficial for both the Philippines and the US and that is in accordance with our laws, especially with our Constitution,&#8221; he added.

While Gazmin announced the country&#8217;s readiness to open its bases to allies, he clarified that there is no plan to build new bases just to accommodate the US and other allies, saying the Constitution prohibits it.

Gazmin said the access agreement was brought up during the Two Plus Two ministerial consultations held in Washington last year.

*CARAT ends*

Meanwhile, the joint Philippine-US naval exercise called Cooperation Afloat Readiness and Training (CARAT) ends today.

Lt. Col. Ramon Zagala, Armed Forces of the Philippines spokesman, said that this year&#8217;s joint naval exercise has equipped Filipino and US sailors with additional skills and techniques in naval warfare and in dealing with various types of sea- and land-based calamities.

&#8220;The key word here is interoperability. We learned from them and they&#8217;ve learned from us,&#8221; Zagala said.

The joint naval exercise was held barely 20 nautical miles from Panatag Shoal, a rich Filipino fishing ground only 124 nautical miles from mainland Zambales, but which is currently under the de facto control of China.

The Naval Forces Northern Luzon (Navfornol), however, barred the media from covering the actual naval maneuver and directed journalists instead to Subic to cover their land-based joint civic action activities as well as a concert.

Officials who declined to be named said the media restriction was apparently imposed so as not to intimidate China, whose vessels operate unhampered in the area.

Ensign Bernard Sabado, this year&#8217;s CARAT spokesman, said today&#8217;s closing ceremonies, as decided by both Philippine and US organizers, would be closed to media.

In Oyon Bay in Masinloc, members of a militant group yesterday held a fluvial protest against the presence of US warships taking part in the CARAT joint military exercise. With Paolo Romero, Pia Lee-Brago

http://www.philstar.com/headlines/2013/07/02/960602/gazmin-china-threat-irresponsible


----------



## Fsjal

Looks like Philippines can't do it alone...


----------



## Zero_wing

Well you guys are threat to all nations in the region


----------



## Malaya

*Palace: Philippines not a &#8216;troublemaker&#8217;*






*MALACAÑANG dismissed Tuesday the accusation of a Chinese analyst that the Philippines is a "troublemaker" in the region amid the territorial disputes of the two countries.*

Presidential spokesperson Edwin Lacierda said that the government does not need to dignify all statements coming from Beijing newspapers or news analysts.

*"What is clear is that the Philippines has availed of the right approach &#8211; rules based, the right process &#8211; arbitration and the right venue &#8211; Unclos arbitral tribunal,"* he said in a text message.

A Chinese news analyst has called the Philippines as a "troublemaker" in the region. He claimed that Manila was sabotaging China's diplomatic relations with other countries, including the United States and Japan.

He also accused Foreign Affairs Secretary Albert del Rosario of "poisoning the atmosphere" in the Association of Southeast Asian Nations foreign ministers' meeting.

Presidential Communication Development and Strategic Planning Office Secretary Ramon Carandang in a separate text message expressed belief that the international community does not see the Philippines as a troublemaker.

*"I believe that international perception of the Philippines remains positive due to our proactive efforts to explain to the world what our perspective is on this and other issues,"* he said.

The Philippines has brought up its territorial row with China before the United Nations Arbitral Tribunal. (SDR/Sunnex)


****************

*Philippines demonized*

Meanwhile, the Philippines is being demonized as aggressor by state-controlled media in China, an official who requested anonymity said.

The official said Beijing mounted a propaganda campaign against the Philippines immediately after its forces took control of Panatag Shoal. Accounts by the state media said Manila had deployed dozens of warships including frigates in the South China Sea to expand Philippine territory and harassed Chinese fishermen.

*&#8220;They have been bombarding their own people with wrong information through their controlled media outlets,&#8221;* the source said.

A survey done at the height of the Panatag standoff purportedly showed that most Chinese &#8211; blinded by state propaganda &#8211; were eager to join an invasion of the Philippines, the source said.

*&#8220;They do not even know where Pag-Asa Island is, yet the mere mention of Nansha Islands, the Chinese without any qualm will jump and declare that the area belongs to them,&#8221; *the source said.

*&#8220;Contrary to Beijing&#8217;s propaganda they have been peddling with their own people, we don&#8217;t even have a missile-firing ship and don&#8217;t have that much naval assets to confront the intruding Chinese warships in the West Philippine Sea. It&#8217;s their own gunboats which have been harassing us out there in the Spratlys,&#8221;* he stressed.

At the Supreme Court, militant groups yesterday filed an urgent motion for Temporary Environmental

Protection Orders (TEPO) against the activities of US forces in the country. The motion is part of an earlier petition for Writ of Kalikasan filed in connection with the grounding of the USS Guardian at Tubbataha Reef.

Palawan Bishop Pedro Arigo led the petitioners.

&#8220;The growing rotational presence in the country of these US troops renders our marine protected areas highly vulnerable to destruction and degradation given the influx of military personnel, weaponry and naval and ground vessels,&#8221; said Bayan secretary-general Renato Reyes. &#8211; With Aurea Calica, Pia Lee-Brago, Jaime Laude, Rhodina Villanueva


----------



## Fsjal

"They don't even know where Pag-Asa island is"

So do they think the Chinese are dumb. 

They know where the bloody island is located. Its just that they don't recognized the name. The real name is Thitu, not this so called "Pag-Asa"

The Chinese sends UAVs everyday to monitor Philippine boats.

Anyway, the Chinese are targeting the island's impoverished airfields. A couple of YJ-62 cruise missiles and not a single plane will fly.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## hoangsa

Bad new : China is too big and too strong in comparision with her neighbors, Chinese like expanding their land by all means.
Good new : China almost has no friend or ally nowaday, to be more and more isolated. Name 3 countries which like and believe in China. It is really hard.


----------



## Fsjal

hoangsa said:


> Bad new : China is too big and too strong in comparision with her neighbors, Chinese like expanding their land by all means.
> Good new : China almost has no friend or ally nowaday, to be more and more isolated. Name 3 countries which like and believe in China. It is really hard.



-Pakistan
-Sudan
-Myanmar

And a couple more like Bangladesh and Nepal.

Where is my medal?????


----------



## Zero_wing

Like? maybe paid hahahaha like ask the African continent us and the rest of the ASEAN your stupid mouthpiece said as accomplices


----------



## Zero_wing

walle990 said:


> Philippine is inviting all the parties to its base which allows easy targeting for the chinese with their ballistic missiles.



Again with the threats go ahead we all know nothings going to happen.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

_VPA Navy's Gepard 3.9 frigate - HQ-11_ *vs* _PLAN's Type 054A frigate - 570_  (higher res)

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Malaya

*Rivals play down China's overture in South China Sea, no breakthrough*
By Manuel Mogato and Stuart Grudgings
BANDAR SERI BEGAWAN | Wed Jul 3, 2013 






*(Reuters) - Philippine Foreign Minister Albert del Rosario walked into a regional security forum this week to hear his Chinese counterpart Wang Yi reel off a list of complaints against Manila for stirring tensions over the South China Sea.*

*Del Rosario was not scheduled to speak, but after hearing Wang's speech at Sunday's closed-door meeting in the kingdom of Brunei, he raised his hand and proceeded to rebut China's allegations one by one, according to Philippine diplomats.* The Singapore foreign minister called it *"testy exchanges"*.

The departure from the usual diplomatic niceties that mark such multilateral gatherings was the latest display of animosity over competing claims in the oil-rich South China Sea, one of Asia's most dangerous military flashpoints.

Despite rare progress towards easing tensions between China and Southeast Asian nations at the Brunei meeting, a binding agreement remains a distant prospect, with Beijing seen in no rush to limit a growing naval reach that is alarming neighbours such as Vietnam and the Philippines.

*"My response was simply that the core issue is that China has taken the position that they have indisputable sovereignty over nearly the entire South China Sea,"* Del Rosario told reporters later. *"Since that is a grossly excessive claim, we need to settle this in accordance with international law. So I asked everyone to support that."*

China's agreement later that day to hold talks with Southeast Asia on maritime rules appeared to mark a new chapter in efforts to resolve the dispute. After years of resisting efforts by the 10-member Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) to start talks on the proposed Code of Conduct, China said it would host talks between senior officials in September.

The code however would not touch on countries' territorial claims but would set "rules of the road" for actions by ships, aiming to minimise the risk of a misstep that could lead to conflict.

The talks to be held in China are relatively low-level and were carefully described in the joint ASEAN-China statement on Sunday as "consultations" rather than "negotiations" - an important nuance that signals that no real progress is likely.

China also succeeded in securing ASEAN's agreement to involve a board of experts such as academics and former diplomats - so-called "eminent persons" - in guiding the process. ASEAN countries had previously been against this, amid concerns it will result in further delays.

A senior U.S. administration official who attended the Brunei meeting said the new talks were welcome, but by no means a breakthrough.

"It's not enough to simply promise some form of talks in the run-up to a multilateral meeting as a way of abating criticism and creating the appearance of progress," the official said.

"There has to be a full-fledged effort to try to work out in practical terms what a mechanism or set of mechanisms would be (to lower tensions)."

*GROWING MILITARISATION*

Friction over the South China Sea, one of the world's most important waterways, has surged as China uses its growing naval might to more forcefully assert its vast claims over the oil and gas rich sea, raising fears of a military clash. Four ASEAN nations, including Vietnam and the Philippines, have overlapping claims with China.

Washington, an ally of the Philippines and also Vietnam, has not taken sides, but Secretary of State John Kerry reiterated in Brunei its strategic interest in freedom of navigation through the busy sea and desire to see a Code of Conduct signed quickly.

Those risks have risen in recent weeks as three Chinese ships have converged just 5 nautical miles from a small reef where the Philippines maintains a small military force.

China has condemned the Philippine presence at the Second Thomas Shoal as an "illegal occupation", even though the reef is within Manila's 200-nautical mile economic exclusion zone.

The encroachment is part of China's strategy of sending ships to far-flung parts of the sea to protect fishing fleets and press its sovereignty claims, which Manila condemned this week as causing "increasing militarisation."

Las month, Chinese state media warned that a "counterstrike" against the Philippines was inevitable if it continued to provoke Beijing in the South China Sea.

The Philippines has one of the least equipped militaries in Asia, but is pursuing a $1.8 billion modernisation programme and has revived plans to build new air and naval bases at Subic, just 124 miles from one of the contentious areas on the South China Sea.

*Philippine President Benigno Aquino*, who retires in 2016, said last week:* "Rest assured that before I step down from office, guarding our skies are new and modern equipment like lead-in fighters, long-range patrol aircraft, close air support aircraft, light-lift fixed-wing aircraft, medium-lift aircraft, attack helicopters, combat utility helicopters and air defence radars."*

On Sunday, Beijing complaints against Manila included: the Philippines' decision this year to appeal for U.N. arbitration over maritime claims without informing China and its joint military exercises last week with the United States near a disputed shoal.

Wang also condemned the Philippines for grounding an old navy ship in the Second Thomas Shoal to claim the area.

China and the Philippines accuse each other of violating the Declaration of Conduct, a non-binding confidence-building agreement on maritime conduct signed by China and ASEAN in 2002. Such differences could be another obstacle to agreeing a more comprehensive pact as China has stressed that countries must first show good faith by abiding by the DoC.

Still, the Philippines appeared to welcome the progress at the Brunei meeting, even if it was scant.

"It's more than a chit-chat," Evan Garcia, the Philippines' deputy foreign secretary told reporters. "We have to start the process."

Thailand's foreign minister described Sunday's agreement as "very significant", but most other ASEAN ministers gave it a more cautious welcome.

"The quality of the process is as important as the result. We want to make sure that we (use) every possible opportunity for as much consultation as possible," said Marty Natalegawa, Indonesia's foreign minister.

*"Breakthrough makes it sound very dramatic."*

(Additional reporting by Megha Rajagopalan and Lesley Wroughton; Editing by Raju Gopalakrishnan)

Rivals play down China's overture in South China Sea, no breakthrough | Reuters


----------



## Malaya

*China's 'behavior' needs even larger PHL defense spending - NSC*

*A ranking official of the National Security Council on Thursday detailed China's &#8220;aggressive behavior&#8221; in the West Philippine Sea, as he called for additional defense spending to uphold the Philippines' interests in the region.*

Retired Navy Rear Admiral Vicente Agdamag, now Deputy Director General of the NSC Secretariat, said China&#8217;s actions confirmed its* &#8220;clear intention to consolidate its control&#8221;* over the disputed areas in line with the Chinese government&#8217;s nine-dash line claim.

&#8220;It started, actually, in March 2011 when a Chinese patrol ship challenged MV Veritas Voyager conducting a survey for Forum Energy, 85 nautical miles off Palawan,&#8221; he said, referring to an incident at the Reed Bank in the Spratly Islands.

Defense and military officials said two Chinese ships harassed the Department of Energy-commissioned survey ship. The Chinese ships told the crew of the Filipino ship to cease their activities because that was part of Chinese territory.

The Chinese vessels left when the AFP Western Command, based in Puerto Princesa City, promptly dispatched a Navy BN-2 Islander maritime patrol aircraft and an Air Force OV-10 light attack/reconnaissance aircraft. No armed confrontation was reported.

Agdamag also cited how Chinese ships prevented a Philippine Navy vessel, the BRP Gregorio del Pilar, from arresting Chinese fishermen caught illegally fishing at the Scarborough Shoal, locally known as the Bajo de Masiloc, in April last year.

The incident triggered a standoff between the China and Philippines, though China now is in virtual control of the shoal. The Philippine government withdrew its two ships from the shoal due to inclement weather, leaving China in complete control of the area, which is about 124 nautical miles from Zambales.

&#8220;Lately, we received reports that [Chinese] surveillance ships are imposing a 24 kilometer wide ban on fishing in the area. They are imposing an exclusion zone already in Bajo de Masinloc,&#8221; said Agdamag.

As of April this year, he said there were nine Chinese vessels at the shoal &#8211; five Fisheries Law Enforcement Command (FLEC) vessels and four Chinese Maritime Surveillance ships.

He also cited China&#8217;s establishment of Sansha City in Woody Island near China and Vietnam &#8220;to oversee and exercise the administrative control&#8221; over its claimed islands in the West Philippine Sea.

Agdamag also noted China&#8217;s issuance of passports showing a nine-dash line map and threats to board foreign vessels in the disputed areas.

He also said Pagasa town Mayor Eugenio Bitoonon was harassed twice by Chinese vessels &#8211; once in November last year and the latest just last May &#8211; at the disputed areas.

Last February, Agdamag said three Chinese Navy ships entered the West Philippine Sea to conduct patrol and training missions and anti-piracy drills. A month later, several Chinese &#8220;modern warships&#8221; were also dispatch to the Bashi channel, between Taiwan and the Philippines, for training missions.

Also last March, a Chinese destroyer, two frigates, an amphibious ship and helicopters and amphibious tanks conducted an eight-day military drill in the Spratly Islands. The Spratlys is being claim in part or in whole by the Philippines, China, Taiwan, Malaysia, Brunei and Vietnam.

&#8220;Right now, there are 18 maritime surveillance ships operating in our area,&#8220; the official also said. He did not say if there were FLECs or Chinese military ships still within Philippine territory.

*Further increase in defense expenditures*

Agdamag said the issue is being addressed by political, diplomatic, and legal actions taken against China.

He said the military is establishing a* &#8220;minimum deterrent capability,&#8221;* alluding to the military&#8217;s modernization program. President Aquino recently signed the modernization law allocating P75 billion for the implementation of the military modernization program until the end of his term in 2016.

Nevertheless, the official said his office is recommending a further increase in defense expenditures.* &#8220;We are recommending that we commit an increase in our investment for defense, from .5 to 1 percent of the GDP (Gross National Product),&#8221;* he said.

Agdamag explained that their proposed increase is on top of the budget of the defense and military establishment which is equivalent to 1.1 percent of the national budget.

*&#8220;We are recommending an additional of .5 to 1 percent (of GDP), not only to be at par with our neighbors, [but] more importantly to develop a modicum of a credible defense capability to protect our maritime and strategic interest,&#8221;* he said.

Agdamag added that the country also needed to enhance its security relations with other countries, specially with the US, &#8220;when it is still able to deter China&#8221;, to buy time for the Philippines to develop its military capability.

&#8220;We need to pursue a healthy and friendly relationship with China and work with her for regional peace and prosperity.... to buy us time to grow our economy and expand our military capabilities,&#8221; he explained further.

*&#8220;So right now, we are buying time, we need at least 10 years with sustained economic growth of 7 to eight percent in order to grow our capability upgrade program.&#8221;*

Also, Agdamag disclosed an ongoing review of the *&#8220;contingency plans&#8221; *of the AFP&#8217;s Northern Luzon Command and Western Command, as per Executive Order 82 issued by President Aquino last year.

NOLCOM has responsibility over the Scarborough Shoal, while WESCOM has the West Philippine Sea as its area of concern. &#8212; DVM, GMA News


----------



## Malaya

Fsjal said:


> -Pakistan
> -Sudan
> -Myanmar
> 
> And a couple more like Bangladesh and Nepal.
> 
> Where is my medal?????


LOL all terrorist and rogue states. 

Anyway Myanmar is no longer your ally. Replace it to North Korea instead.


----------



## Fsjal

Malaya said:


> LOL all terrorist and rogue states.
> 
> Anyway Myanmar is no longer your ally. Replace it to North Korea instead.



Here are some more nations-

-Iran
-Saudi Arabia
-Indonesia
-Thailand
-Venezuela
-Cuba

And more...

How about Philippines? Where is your friends...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Malaya

Fsjal said:


> Here are some more nations-
> 
> -Iran
> -Saudi Arabia
> -Indonesia
> -Thailand
> -Venezuela
> -Cuba
> 
> And more...
> 
> How about Philippines? Where is your friends...


US
Japan
S. Korea
Canada
Australia
New Zealand
ASEAN
Israel
India
EU (esp. UK and España) 
Unión Latina 

and a lot more (except those unfriendly/rogue/terrorist states)


----------



## Malaya

*PHL govt welcomes China's decision to hold talks on sea code*
By ANDREO C. CALONZO
GMA News July 4, 2013

*The Philippine government on Thursday described as a "forward step" China's decision to discuss a code of conduct on the South China Sea with the Philippines and other Southeast Asian countries.*

At a press briefing, presidential spokesperson Edwin Lacierda said the Philippines is ready to discuss its draft of the code with Chinese officials to try to diffuse tension at the South China Sea.

*"We have already drafted the code of conduct, and we have asked them to discuss it with us. China has already said that they are discussing with us, so this is a step in the right direction,"* Lacierda said.

The President's spokesperson refused to "speculate" when asked if the Philippine government thinks China is only using talks on the code as a delaying tactic.

On Monday, Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi said his country has agreed to hold "official consultations" on a proposed code of conduct on the South China Sea with Southeast Asian nations.

*Sea dispute*

China is asserting its historial claim on the entire South China Sea.

The Philippines, however, is claiming its ownership of some parts of the South China Sea&#8212;which it calls the West Philippine Sea&#8212;under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea. 

Vietnam, Malaysia and Brunei also have claims over parts of the South China Sea. 

Lacierda said that the Philippines will continue to seek international arbitration on its territorial dispute with China while talks on the sea code are ongoing.

*"We have used the proper approaches, rules-based. We are using the right process, arbitration. We are using the proper venue, the UNCLOS arbitrary tribunal to settle all the issues on these disputes. We have used the approach that is acceptable to the community of nations,"* the President's spokesperson said. 

Last January, the Philippines brought its territorial dispute with China before a United Nations tribunal, asking Beijing &#8220;to desist from unlawful activities that violate the sovereign rights and jurisdiction of the Philippines under the UNCLOS. &#8212;KG, GMA News

PHL govt welcomes China&#39;s decision to hold talks on sea code | News | GMA News Online


----------



## hurt

Soryu said:


> _VPA Navy's Gepard 3.9 frigate - HQ-11_ *vs* _PLAN's Type 054A frigate - 570_  (higher res)



VS?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## EastSea

hurt said:


> VS?




Like this ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## hurt

EastSea said:


> Like this ?


Like this!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Soryu

You just are bullshjt troll
And you show off Chinese color like this:_ invader, aggressor, and genocide_


----------



## hurt

Soryu said:


> You just are bullshjt troll
> And you show off Chinese color like this:_ invader, aggressor, and genocide_



If you like* VS* ,I must to show you realy *VS*.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## hurt

EastSea said:


> Yes, you showed of really like this.



Dont forget your dead number.

We remember them as Martyr&#65292;but your government even dont tell your poeple the killed number of your military

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Fsjal

hurt said:


> Dont forget your dead number.
> 
> We remember them as Martyr&#65292;but your government even dont tell your poeple the killed number of your military



Because Vietnam government used innocent civilians as soldiers. Also, the PLA would of eliminated large numbers of them.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

hurt said:


> Dont forget your dead number.
> 
> We remember them as Martyr&#65292;but your government even dont tell your poeple the killed number of your military



He paid his life for stupid Deng Xiaoping, idiot dirty aggressor died in our soil.

Vietnamese people don't forget young people were killed by dirty chinese aggressors by Paracel 1974 and Gac Ma rocks 1984.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## hurt

EastSea said:


> He paid his life for stupid Deng Xiaoping, idiot dirty aggressor died in our soil.
> 
> Vietnamese people don't forget young people were killed by dirty chinese aggressors by Paracel 1974 and Gac Ma rocks 1984.



No,he killed lots monkeys,its worth

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## EastSea

hurt said:


> No,he killed lots monkeys,its worth



Lots of chinese monkeys here.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## hurt

EastSea said:


> Lots of chinese monkeys here.



They are the hunter who dead in hunting monkey.
Hunters own tomb but monkey dead wilderness

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## EastSea

hurt said:


> They are the hunter who dead in hunting monkey.
> Hunters own tomb but monkey dead wilderness



chinese thiefs invaded in neighbor soil were shot dead like wild animals.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zero_wing

hurt said:


> Problems?You steal our islands is The most important problem .



Oh please this coming from guy who's country has no respect for international law and other peoples territories and have disputes with almost all of its neighbors? i think the world would agree that china is the bad guy here



hurt said:


> They are the hunter who dead in hunting monkey.
> Hunters own tomb but monkey dead wilderness



Racist f@ct alert what no more evidence just pointless racist arrogant punts ha you chekwa are just sore losers


----------



## Fsjal

^Hypocrite^

Funny thing is, you are also arrogant and racist.

Stop using derogatory words like ch*nk and chekwa

From where you come from, people there are unethical.


----------



## cirr

CMS&#65288;CCG&#65289;1002 launched at HPS on 06.07.2013&#65306;


----------



## cirr

CCG 3412&#65306;

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Malaya

*Asean appears more united on South China Sea issues*
July 7, 2013

*What a difference a year - or, more to the point - a new host makes.*

*Around this time last year, the Association of Southeast Asian Nations reeled from an unexpected scandal: the failure for the first time to issue a joint communique after a leaders' summit. China had pressured host Cambodia, its close ally, not to allow any mention of the South China Sea disputes in the traditional closing statement; both the Philippines and Vietnam vigourously objected, but in the end Cambodia chose to side, not with its ASEAN partners, but with China.*

Chinese overreach had immediate regional consequences. Beijing's aggressive conduct in the South China Sea attracted renewed international attention. Cambodia felt the urgent need to repair its relations with neighbouring Vietnam, one of the claimant countries. Not least, the largest ASEAN member, Indonesia, began a form of shuttle diplomacy, with support from Singapore, to try to repair the unexpected damage to ASEAN unity.

This Indonesian initiative, it became clear over last weekend, during the ASEAN summit hosted by Brunei, has effectively strengthened Asean's resolve to commit China to a binding "code of conduct", one which will govern maritime disputes as well as maritime cooperation in the region.

*"We have to have the code of conduct,"* Indonesian Foreign Minister Marty Natalegawa said in Bandar Seri Begawan. *"Otherwise, uncertainty will prevail."*

With new Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi taking part in ASEAN exchanges for the first time, the association reached an agreement with Beijing to begin official consultations on the code of conduct, to lead to formal talks in September.

The language of the communique is worth a close read. The 90th paragraph of a 98-paragraph communique reads in full: "We discussed the situation and recent developments in the South China Sea. In this regard, we appreciated the exchange of views on the issues including initiatives and approaches to enhance trust, confidence and dialogue, and address incidents in the South China Sea. We also noted suggestions for a hotline of communication, as well as search and rescue of persons and vessels in distress. We further reaffirmed the importance of peace, stability and maritime security in the region. We underscored the importance of the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea (DOC), Asean's Six-Point Principles on the South China Sea, and the Asean-China Joint Statement on the 10th Anniversary of the DOC. In this regard, we reaffirmed the collective commitments under the DOC to ensuring the resolution of disputes by peaceful means in accordance with universally recognised principles of international law, including the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, without resorting to the threat or use of force, while exercising self-restraint in the conduct of activities."

*This is exactly the Philippine position, and it is good to see it restated in an official ASEAN statement. Even more important for resolving regional tensions is the last sentence of the next paragraph: "Taking into account the importance of the 10th anniversary of the Asean-China Strategic Partnership in 2013, we look forward to the formal consultations between ASEAN and China at the SOM [Senior Officials' Meeting] level on the COC [Code of Conduct] with an aim to reach an early conclusion of a Code of Conduct in the South China Sea, which will serve to enhance peace, stability and prosperity in the region."*

*It may be that Cambodia has realised that its membership in ASEAN loses much of its potency if it is perceived as a Chinese proxy; it may be that Sultan Bolkiah of Brunei has put his entire weight behind the Indonesian initiative; it may be that Chinese assertiveness in advancing its claims to almost the entire South China Sea, and the refusal of both the Philippines and Vietnam to back down, has had the effect of strengthening ASEAN conviction about its "centrality in the evolving regional architecture" - in the words of the communique.*

Whatever the reason, China has finally heard from ASEAN again on the vexing issue of competing maritime claims in the South China Sea. That is no small thing.

Asean appears more united on South China Sea issues - The Nation

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Fsjal

cirr said:


> CCG 3412&#65306;



Does it carry weapons?

And if it does, what weapons are they?


----------



## Zero_wing

troll as ever you loser never change


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Malaya said:


> *Give Australia, ASEAN access to PH bases*
> BY CARMELA FONBUENA
> 07/01/2013
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MANILA, Philippines - Former defense secretary Gilberto Teodoro Jr supports a government plan to give the United States and Japan more access to Philippine military bases. He said the same access should be given to Australia and ASEAN countries.
> 
> "I favor optimizing access to Philippine bases not only for Japan and the US, but also for other friendly States, such as the ASEAN states and Australia," Teodoro told Rappler on Monday, July 1, when asked to comment on the government plan.
> 
> "This will facilitate confidence building and interoperability between our forces and those of others," Teodoro added.
> 
> Defense Secretary Voltaire Gazmin said the government is drafting plans to allow US forces to spend extended time on the Philippines' military bases. He said the same plan will be offered to Japan's military.
> 
> *READ: PH wants to give US, Japan access to bases*
> 
> Teodoro argued defense exchanges have various benefits, including assisting the Philippine government in improving its disaster preparedness.
> 
> "This is useful not merely for traditional defense concerns but also for non-traditional ones such as Humaniatarian Assistance and Disaster Response (HADR), Peace Keeping Operations (PKO), and responding to pandemics, to name a few," Teodoro said in an e-mail to Rappler.
> 
> Teodoro ran for president in 2010 but lost to his cousin, President Benigno Aquino III. He continues to speak on security and defense-related matters.
> 
> *Concerned camps*
> 
> Various camps are critical of the government's plan to open access to its bases, notably the one in Subic, Olongapo City. Leftist group Bayan called on government and various sectors to "reject US intervention and manipulation."
> 
> "The Philippine government is grossly mistaken if it thinks that the US is the key to defending our national sovereignty. The US is merely out to take advantage of the dispute so that it can position itself strategically in Asia," Bayan said in a statement on Sunday, June 30.
> 
> The Philippine Daily Inquirer also ran a July 1 editorial critical of the plan. It reads: "A decision to host allied military forces inside Philippine bases, however, should not be taken lightly; meetings and supply arrangements and joint exercises can all be justified as the Armed Forces of the Philippines belated attempts at capacity-building. Allowing foreign troops from allies with a stake in the ongoing South China Sea disputes to operate in andthe crucial differencefrom Philippine military bases is much harder to rationalize."
> 
> Teodoro said what's important is for government to craft policy guidelines that will guarantee the protection of Philippine interests.
> 
> "I used the term optimizing in order to underscore the importance of having carefully crafted policy guidelines on the matter, which shall take into account our national and international interests, responsibilities, and obligations," he explained.
> 
> *Aggressive China*
> 
> The plan to give the US and Japan more access to the country's military bases comes at a difficult time for Philippine-China relations.
> 
> On Saturday, June 29, China's state-run media warned that the Philippines should brace itself for a possible "counterstrike should Beijing continue to be provoked in the South China Sea (West Philippine Sea).
> 
> The Philippines has accused China of "massive" military buildup in the disputed West Philippine Sea. In a statement released on the first day of the annual Asia-Pacific talks in Brunei, the Philippines warned that the Asian giant's tactics threatened peace in the region.
> 
> Japan earlier pledged to help the Philippines defend its "remote islands," as both governments expressed concern over China's robust moves to stake its claims to disputed Asian waters.
> 
> *READ: Japan vows to help PH amid China Sea row*
> 
> "We agreed that we will further cooperate in terms of the defense of remote islands... the defense of territorial seas as well as protection of maritime interests," Japanese Defense Minister Itsunori Onodera told a joint news conference.
> 
> The Philippine military also recently held war games with the United States near the disputed Scarborough Shoal. It is a part of a 6-day Cooperation Afloat Readiness and Training (CARAT) exercises that involved 3 US Navy vessels, including the USS Fitzgerald, a guided missile destroyer.



Wait a second, is Aquino saying he want to lease PH military bases (pimp PH sovereignty) to other country?


----------



## Zero_wing

Nope its still a Philippine military base under the Philippines it just means it allows allied countries to stay conduct joint training and exercise and resupply and refuel etc noting major its still under the VFA or Vising Force agreement but this time more allied countries would be allowed not just America. Indonesia should look into it as well


----------



## HongWu

Look at those Pinoys cowering in fear.... they know they are helpless in the face of a PLAN attack.

PREMATURE REJOICING | Chinese Navy ship, fishing boats still in Ayungin - InterAksyon.com


----------



## Zero_wing

Man so far away from the truth i think your the people that afraid of all the nations you angered 
Made in China: A US-Japan-Philippines Axis? | Flashpoints | The Diplomat
Philippines Seeks Air Defense Systems From Israel | Flashpoints | The Diplomat

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Malaya

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Wait a second, is Aquino saying he want to lease PH military bases (pimp PH sovereignty) to other country?


nah we will just let our allies (Japan and US) come in and use our military facilities. It is a preventive measure to maintain peace and security for the Filipino people against the greed of other nation. It is in the best interest of our country to have the presence of strong allies to deter any threat from the biggest bully in the world while at the same time we are modernizing and enhancing our Armed Forces.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Malaya

HongWu said:


> Look at those Pinoys cowering in fear.... they know they are helpless in the face of a PLAN attack.
> 
> PREMATURE REJOICING | Chinese Navy ship, fishing boats still in Ayungin - InterAksyon.com


Your greed is definitely bringing it nowhere but to consternation of other nations. Your head has swollen due to your economic growth but this is only temporary and you will surely find yourself back to the quagmire you have been before.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Malaya

Zero_wing said:


> Man so far away from the truth i think your the people that afraid of all the nations you angered
> Made in China: A US-Japan-Philippines Axis? | Flashpoints | The Diplomat
> Philippines Seeks Air Defense Systems From Israel | Flashpoints | The Diplomat


That's what they get for being so disrespectful to the rights and sovereignty of other countries. Nowadays countries whom they bullied will do whatever it takes even if it is a desperate one to bring them down...While it is true that they are growing fast militarily and economically, their enemies are also growing fast in economic and military partnership for a sole purpose...to contain their rising power. This is the biggest mistake they make. They grow plants in a very large garden and yet they grow also weeds with them...Weeds that eventually take all the nourishment from the precious plants they grow.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Malaya

*PH: China turning sea into its lake*
By Tarra Quismundo
Philippine Daily Inquirer
Thursday, July 11th, 2013







*MANILA, Philippines&#8212;China is turning the West Philippine Sea (South China Sea) into &#8220;one country&#8217;s lake,&#8221; Foreign Secretary Albert del Rosario said on Tuesday, pressing Manila&#8217;s effort to roll back Beijing&#8217;s expansive claims in the strategic waterway.*

Speaking before an experts&#8217; roundtable on maritime security in Brussels, Belgium, Del Rosario said China&#8217;s assertion of ownership over almost all of the sea could restrict freedom of navigation in sea-lanes critical to global trade.

Del Rosario also reiterated the Philippines&#8217; bid for a peaceful resolution to its territorial dispute with China in the West Philippine Sea by bringing it to the United Nations for arbitration.

*Citing China&#8217;s &#8220;overwhelming naval and maritime presence far beyond its mainland shores,&#8221; Del Rosario accused Beijing of &#8220;raising regional tensions&#8221; in the sea, a clear reference to incursions of Chinese vessels into shoals and islets well within the Philippines&#8217; 360-kilometer exclusive economic zone.*

China&#8217;s &#8220;unilateral coercive actions,&#8221; Del Rosario said, also seemed to be an assertion of sovereignty over the territories within Beijing&#8217;s self-proclaimed &#8220;nine-dash line,&#8221; which encompasses most of the sea, including waters within the economic exclusion zones of Southeast Asian nations.

*Del Rosario again criticized China for its nine-dash claim in the sea, saying the delineation is &#8220;extremely close to the coasts of other littoral states.&#8221;
*
*Arbitrary claims*

*&#8220;Arbitrary claims to maritime territory could also be arbitrarily invoked to regulate passage of ships through the large swath of maritime areas the nine-dash line encloses. On its face, this expansive claim could turn an international body of water into a lake of one nation,&#8221;* Del Rosario warned his audience, which included members of the European Parliament, the diplomatic corps, Belgian government and European Union (EU) officials and European think tanks.

Besides the Philippines, Brunei, Malaysia, Vietnam and Taiwan claim territories in the West Philippine Sea, where islets, atolls and reefs are believed to be sitting on vast deposits of oil and gas.

Del Rosario&#8217;s remarks in Brussels echoed statements he made on June 30 before foreign ministers of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (Asean) and dialogue partners in Brunei, where he blasted China for its &#8220;massive military buildup&#8221; in the West Philippine Sea.

After disappearing for a few days last week, Chinese ships have returned to Panatag Shoal (Scarborough Shoal), a rich fishing ground west of Zambales within the Philippines&#8217; exclusive economic zone.

Three Chinese vessels have also converged on Ayungin Shoal (Second Thomas Shoal) in the Philippines&#8217; part of the Spratly archipelago in the middle of the West Philippine Sea.

*More complex*

Del Rosario touched on other regional security concerns such as the dispute between China and Japan over a group of islands in the East China Sea and tensions on the Korean Peninsula, but he described the West Philippine Sea rivalry as &#8220;more complex.&#8221;

&#8220;We must manage the maritime territorial disputes that have come to recent prominence in the East and South China Seas. 

These constitute the major security issues in the region&#8217;s seas. The overlapping multiple disputes in the South China Sea are the more complex, involving the legal rights of several littoral states over territories, maritime zones, fishing grounds, natural resource areas, transport and other uses of the sea,&#8221; Del Rosario said.

*&#8220;We cannot afford to ignore these issues. Sweeping them under the rug may not work indefinitely. At some point, we must focus on their resolution, or at the very least, on their management in order to preempt the escalation of tensions,&#8221;* Del Rosario said.

He underscored the West Philippine Sea&#8217;s importance to Europe, pointing out that the sea is a gateway to Asia.

&#8220;The importance of the South China Sea in European trade cannot be overemphasized. In fact, the opening of maritime trade routes spanning Europe, Asia and the Americas ushered in the modern world. The first great era of globalization was driven by trade in the age of sail,&#8221; he said.

*&#8220;Ensuring the unfettered access of ships and maritime commerce through the region is therefore of interest not only to Asia and Europe, but to the international community as well,&#8221;* he said.

*Last resort*

Del Rosario explained the Philippines&#8217; decision to seek UN arbitration to resolve its territorial dispute with China, saying China&#8217;s &#8220;unilateral claim &#8230; must pass the bar of international law and conform in particular to the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (Unclos).&#8221;

The Philippines invoked Unclos in seeking UN arbitration to invalidate China&#8217;s nine-dash-line claim and halt its incursions into the country&#8217;s established maritime boundaries in the disputed waters.

China has refused to take part in the proceedings, but the process is continuing under Unclos provisions.

*&#8220;The Philippines had exhausted almost all political and diplomatic avenues for a peaceful negotiated settlement of its maritime dispute with China. Our last resort therefore when confronted with increasing incursions into our territory was to utilize the legal track, which also covered the management of disputes,&#8221;* Del Rosario said.

In March, the European Parliament expressed support for the Philippines&#8217; peaceful approach to solving its territorial dispute with China, a position its members reiterated to Del Rosario during their meeting on Tuesday.

During his three-day visit to Belgium, Del Rosario also secured the support of European Council President Herman Van Rompuy in their first meeting on July 8.

The council is the EU&#8217;s policy-making body.

*Right path*

The Department of Foreign Affairs said Van Rompuy called the Philippines&#8217; arbitration bid &#8220;the right path to take&#8221; in seeking a legal remedy against China.

Amid the pending arbitration, the Philippines continues to seek a dialogue with China in hopes of settling the maritime dispute.

On the sidelines of the Asean ministerial meeting in Brunei, Del Rosario invited Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi for &#8220;consultations&#8221; in Manila after &#8220;testy exchanges&#8221; between them during a closed session.

He said Wang told him that he would consider his invitation.

Toward the close of the meeting, China agreed to open &#8220;formal consultations&#8221; with Asean on a proposed code of conduct in the West Philippine Sea.

The consultations will be held in Beijing in September.


----------



## Malaya

*UN arbitral tribunal on PH case vs China meets in Hamburg on jurisdiction*
By: Veronica C. Uy, InterAksyon.com
July 10, 2013






*MANILA - The five-member United Nations tribunal that will hear the arbitration case the Philippines sought over its territorial dispute with China is now meeting in Hamburg, where it will decide whether it has jurisdiction over the case, University of the Philippines law professor Atty. Harry Roque said.*

Roque, of UP&#8217;s Institute of International Legal Studies, said the tribunal would have to* &#8220;examine its own jurisdiction&#8221; *over the case that the Philippines filed January this year over China&#8217;s objections.

He said the panel *&#8220;would have to convince itself that number one, the case is covered by the compulsory and binding dispute settlement procedures of UNCLOS. That is, that the dispute involves only interpretation and application of UNCLOS,&#8221;* he said.

UNCLOS stands for the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea.

If the tribunal answers yes to the first question, then it would have to decide whether its jurisdiction is not covered by reservations made by China, he said. Among China&#8217;s expressed reservations are on maritime delimitation and operation of law enforcement for purposes of sovereign rights.

If the court decides that it has jurisdiction, then it &#8220;will ask the Philippines to make its submissions, including factual evidence,&#8221; Roque explained.

The meeting would be the first for the arbitral tribunal since the membership to that body was completed in April, he added.

The meeting was delayed after one of the arbitrators, Prof. Chris Pinto &#8220;voluntarily recused himself from the tribunal because he is married to a Filipina.&#8221; Pinto is Sri Lankan.

Roque said &#8220;Prof. Pinto is a very close friend of the Institute of International Legal Studies, that&#8217;s why we consider it a big loss.&#8221;

Another member from a third world country, Thomas Mensah of Ghana, was named Pinto&#8217;s replacement.

Hamburg likely seat of arbitration

Roque said Hamburg will likely be established as the seat of arbitration.

*The Philippines is questioning China&#8217;s &#8220;nine-dash line&#8221; as basis for its sweeping claims in the South China Sea. *

The Philippines claims parts of the South China Sea and refers to them as the West Philippine Sea.

China, which insists on a bilateral solution to the conflict, rejected the arbitration in February, saying the Philippines&#8217; case was legally infirm.

Along with 161 other countries, both the Philippines and China are signatories to the 1982 accord allowing them to seek legal remedy on territorial disputes.

Aside from the Philippines and China, Brunei, Malaysia, Taiwan and Vietnam have overlapping claims over the resource-rich waters.

UN arbitral tribunal on PH case vs China meets in Hamburg on jurisdiction - InterAksyon.com

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Malaya

*Del Rosario at EU: 'Peaceful' efforts to end sea row 'unsuccessful'*
By Camille Diola (philstar.com)






*MANILA, Philippines - Foreign Affairs Secretary Albert del Rosario on Tuesday reported to officials of the European Union in Brussels, Belgium that the Philippines' "peaceful" approach to settle disputes with China have failed.*

*"The Philippines undertook many efforts to peacefully engage China and settle these disputes. However, these were unsuccessful,"* Del Rosario said, explaining the overlapping disputes at sea with China as the major claimant.

Del Rosario said in a roundtable discussion that the country has *"exhausted almost all political and diplomatic avenues"* in peacefully negotiating a settlement with China, which he said has "projected an overwhelming naval and maritime presence far beyond its mainland shores."

*"Our last resort, therefore, when confronted with increasing incursions into our territory, was to utilize the legal track which also covered the management of disputes," Del Rosario said.*

He emphasized that the country seeks a *"rules-based" resolution *on the conflict through third-party arbitration and the crafting of the Code of Conduct with its Southeast Asian neighbors.

*"The five-member panel of the arbitration tribunal has already been completed ... I have no doubt that they will look at the merits of the case on the basis of law,"* Del Rosario said.

The diplomatic official also took time in convincing the European dignitaries of the importance of the South China Sea in European trade, saying that the shipping lanes must remain free of military perils.

*"Ensuring the unfettered access of ships and maritime commerce through the region is ... of interest not only to Asia and Europe, but to the international community as well,"* Del Rosario said.

*According to a statement by the Department of Foreign Affairs on Wednesday, European Parliament members have expressed their support for the country's approaches to the sea row, particularly its respect for the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea or UNCLOS in the meeting with Del Rosario.*

Del Rosario is in Belgium and Luxembourg for a three-day diplomatic visit when he also met Luxembourg Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Affairs Minister Jean Asselborn seeking to renew the two countries' bilateral ties.

http://www.philstar.com/headlines/2...-eu-peaceful-efforts-end-sea-row-unsuccessful

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Malaya

*The China challenge*
BREAKTHROUGH By Elfren S. Cruz (The Philippine Star) | July 11, 2013






There are reports that there was a heated verbal exchange between the Philippine Foreign Affairs Secretary and the Minister of Foreign Affairs of China during the recently concluded ASEAN China forum. Chinese ships have also returned to the Panatag shoals.

Once again we are forced to ask whether there is any way we can ever normalize relations with China or will tensions continue to be the defining framework for future Philippines &#8212; China relations.

Chito Sta, Romana, former executive producer of the American Broadcasting Corporation in Beijing and an acknowledged China expert, describes how China&#8217;s global strategy and posture has dramatically changed in the past two and a half decades.

After the collapse of the Soviet Union and the end of the Cold War, the United States was seen as the sole superpower in the world. After the 1989 Tiananmen Square massacre, the Chinese leaders were very concerned with the issue of the survival of the Communist regime. During the period 1989-1991 China&#8217;s primary predicament was how to avoid a collapse similar to what happened to the Soviet Union and other Eastern European communist regimes.

In the early 1990s, under the leadership of Deng, China&#8217;s strategy on how to deal with a world dominated by a single superpower was: &#8220; keep a low profile, bide our time, build our capabilities.&#8221; The simpler translation was a &#8220;hide and bide&#8221; strategy.

Today, China is prepared to prepare to oppose any US-led resolution to end the Assad rule in Syria. However, in 1991 when the United States and its allies proposed a UN resolution for an invasion of Iraq, China abstained on the vote instead of casting a veto.. This was also the period when China improved relations with South Korea, Japan and its Asian neighbors.

In 2003, Chinese leaders introduced a new strategy to define the rise in Chinese power. This was the &#8220;peaceful rise&#8221; term which was replaced by &#8220;peaceful development&#8221; in 2004. The primary motive was to address increasing international concern about the increasing &#8220;China threat.&#8221;

With the global financial crisis and recession in the West in 2008, Chinese analysts begun to point to a shift in the strategic balance of power. They pointed to a declining dominance of the United States and the rise of emerging powers like Brazil, Russia, India, and China or BRICs. It was perceived, in China, that there was now a shift from a unipolar world, dominated by the USA, to a multi-polar global trend of &#8220;declining West and rising East.&#8221;

There was an internal debate on whether China should continue Deng&#8217;s &#8220;hide and bide&#8221; strategy or consider that it was now a major power that needed to play a bigger role in international affairs. The continuing financial crisis in the West and its weakening economic position emboldened China to modify Deng&#8217;s &#8220;hide and &#8220;bide&#8221; strategy and initiate a more assertive policy. While it was still willing to cooperate with the United States, it now takes tougher position on issues it considers as &#8220;core interests.&#8221;

The term &#8220;core interests&#8221; was first used by a Chinese leader in 2003 in relation to the issue of sovereignty over Taiwan. Since 2004, the term has become more frequently used by Chinese leaders and diplomats. It was used in the issue of Tibet. Then in May 2009, China wrote an official letter to the UN Secretary General from the China UN Mission which said:

&#8220;China has indisputable sovereignty over the islands in the South China Sea and the adjacent waters, and enjoys sovereign rights and jurisdiction over the relevant waters as well as the seabed and subsoil thereof.&#8221;

China now has the military and naval power to back up its territorial assertions. This has led to recent confrontations with its neighbors Japan, India, Philippines and Vietnam. In trying to predict possible scenarios, the major unknown at this point is the response of the United States in the event of any major incident between the Philippines and China. There is clearly an increasing intensity in the geopolitical rivalry between the United States and China.

However, the USA is apparently pursuing a policy of competition and cooperation. In its &#8220;pivot to Asia&#8221; the United States intends to enlarge its military and naval presence in Asia. However, while there is increasing competition in the political and military spheres, China&#8217;s trade with the USA (estimated $446 billion annually} continues to be a major economic reality. Also China remains as the top foreign holder of US government debt estimated at $1.16 trillion.

The United States has never officially acknowledged our territorial claims in the West Philippine Sea. At this point, we need to accept the reality that we cannot expect the United States to help us defend any of territories presently under dispute with China.

It is clear that without a really major provocation, such as invasion of Taiwan or Luzon, there will be no American &#8220;cavalry&#8221; coming to our rescue.

We must continue to engage China without fear since we are protecting territorial sovereignty. However, at the same time there is a need to continue bilateral talks at the highest level. Fortunately, there will be some opportunities for these quiet talks.

In August there will be a meeting of ASEAN foreign ministers with China in Beijing. In September the talks on the Code of Conduct in the disputed areas will be held in Beijing. In September 20 to 24, the Philippines will host the ASEAN Expo in Nanning and both presidents of China and the Philippines are expected to attend.

The two pronged approach of &#8220;conflict and cooperation&#8221; with China, similar to that of the USA and Vietnam ,will continue to be the Philippines&#8217; best strategy because war is not an option.

The China challenge | Opinion, News, The Philippine Star | philstar.com


----------



## Viet

India should abondon their fear before China and resumes drilling oil with us in the SC Sea. Our EEZ waters are undisputed. 


Welcome India's stand on South China Sea, says Vietnam


_IANS | New Delhi July 12, 2013 Last Updated at 18:35 IST
Business Standard
_





_VN Foreign Minister Pham Binh Minh met Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh in New Delhi on July 12_






_VN Foreign Minister Pham Binh Minh who is paying an official visit to India from July 10-12 and his Indian counterpart Salman Khurshid._


Observing that maritime disputes in the South China Sea had arisen due to one nation's claim to "80 percent" of the waters, which was "too much", Vietnam Friday said it welcomes the stand by India on maintaining peace and stability and securing maritime lanes in the sea over which China has shown increasing assertiveness.

Vietnamese Foreign Minister Pham Binh Minh, at a talk here Friday, said the situation in the South China Sea was complicated due to the claim over the Paracel and Spratly islands by countries in the region, including China.

"The claim of one country is too much, covering 80 percent of South China Sea... so the dispute arose," he said at a talk at the Indian Council of World Affairs (ICWA).

He said the 10-member ASEAN grouping favoured freedom of navigation and rights over their economic zones. He said ASEAN and China are holding official negotiations on a Code of Conduct for maritime rights in the South China Sea.

"We must respect international law and the UN law of the sea," he said.

"In this we regard we appreciate the stand of India in maintaining peace and securing maritime lanes," the Vietnamese minister said, referring to the speech by External Affairs Minister Salman Khurshid in Brunei earlier this month at the 20th ASEAN Regional Forum meeting.

Khurshid had stressed the need to "reaffirm the importance of unimpeded right of passage and other maritime rights in accordance with accepted principles of international law... these principles should be respected by all".

"Khurshid rejected the use of force and we welcome the stand by India," said Pham Binh Minh.

On Thursday, Pham Binh Minh had said India was welcome to explore for oil and gas in its exclusive economic zone in the South China Sea. China has not been happy about India's ONGC Videsh exploring for oil and gas in the sea.

The Vietnamese minister also said Friday that with greater connectivity and economic linkages, "Asia and Pacific and South Asia could be inter-linked into what is the called Indo-Pacific".

The greater linkages of South Asia with East Asia and the Pacific "reflect the idea that we all share a common prosperity, our destinies are intertwined and ASEAN plays a crucial role as a bridge linking the regions".

Asserting that ASEAN, especially Vietnam, "holds India is great value", the Vietnamese minister described India as an economic powerhouse and appreciated India's role as a key player in the region.

Direct flights between Vietnam and India would take place in November, which would boost tourism and people-to-people contact between their two countries, he said.

_Welcome India's stand on South China Sea, says Vietnam | Business Standard_

Reactions: Like Like:
11


----------



## Viet

East Sea and Vietnam´s EEZ

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Shardul.....the lion

Vietnam is blessed with huge coastline and oil rich zones and cursed to have big bully neighbor

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## SirHatesALot

Only way to stand up to china is by improving economy and military.
I hope India-Vietnam relations improve.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Hellraiser007

Long live India - Vietnam good Relations.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Psyops

If the PLAN decides to sink Indian ships, India is powerless to do anything about it. Type 056 corvettes and type 022 FAC is good enough to sink the entire Indian navy. We hold all the cards, if we decide to play hardball with India like we did in April, India will back down and give us concessions.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Hellraiser007

Psyops said:


> If the PLAN decides to sink Indian ships, India is powerless to do anything about it. Type 056 corvettes and type 022 FAC is good enough to sink the entire Indian navy. We hold all the cards, if we decide to play hardball with India like we did in April, India will back down and give us concessions.



It is boring to hear the warnings from Chinese, The drilling is going on and is about to be expanded to other blocks,do what ever you want. ......

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## SirHatesALot

Psyops said:


> If the PLAN decides to sink Indian ships, India is powerless to do anything about it. Type 056 corvettes and type 022 FAC is good enough to sink the entire Indian navy. We hold all the cards, if we decide to play hardball with India like we did in April, India will back down and give us concessions.



How do you play Hardball while holding cards?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## gslv mk3

Psyops said:


> If the PLAN decides to sink Indian ships, India is powerless to do anything about it.* Type 056 corvettes and type 022 FAC* is good enough to sink the entire Indian navy. We hold all the cards, if we decide to play hardball with India like we did in April, India will back down and give us concessions.



Your Navy wont even dare to bring that 2000 tonne corvette near a inian Kamorta class corvette,let alone a 6000 tonne Indian frigate


----------



## walle

Indian ships can't even make it into SCS. They are a joke.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Tshering22

Psyops said:


> If the PLAN decides to sink Indian ships, India is powerless to do anything about it. Type 056 corvettes and type 022 FAC is good enough to sink the entire Indian navy. We hold all the cards, if we decide to play hardball with India like we did in April, India will back down and give us concessions.



This Suckular weakling regime is there only until next march.. So play all you want.

Once it is kicked out in elections, your playtime is going to be over. So laugh all you can, jeer all you can now.


----------



## newdelhinsa

Chinese wet dreams will remain wet and they will be bogged down from all sides because of their erratic tendencies.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Hellraiser007

India to give $19 million, patrol boats to Vietnam - The New Indian Express

As Vietnam acknowledged India&#8217;s right to explore oil and gas in offshore blocks in the South China Sea, New Delhi has offered an additional soft loan of $19.5 million, a PARAM supercomputer and patrol boats to the southeast Asian nation.Visiting Vietnam Foreign Minister Pham Binh Minh said the dispute on the South China Sea did feature in the joint commission meeting, which he co-chaired with External Affairs Minister Salman Khurshid.

&#8220;I had discussions on a wide range of issues of mutual interest. The South China Sea or East Sea was discussed,&#8221; the Vietnamese minister said.

He said both sides reaffirmed that all the countries bordering the South China Sea have a right to their exclusive economic zones. He also said India should pursue &#8220;exploration and exploitation work in the exclusive economic zone of Vietnam&#8221;. In response, Khurshid said India expressed its commitment to continue &#8220;our cooperation on oil and gas in Vietnam&#8221;, adding that these were &#8220;commercial ventures by Indian companies&#8221;.

A part of ONGC Videsh&#8217;s offshore block 128 is claimed by China, which has staked a claim to the region rich in hydrocarbons. China has increasingly been assertive about its claims, especially vis-à-vis the South China Sea and its territorial claims with Japan. Khurshid, who recently attended an Asean summit in Brunei Darussalam, said there had been increasing convergence of views towards negotiating a code of conduct within the regional grouping. He noted that India had also said that any contentious issue should be settled in a peaceful manner, through dialogues.

Khurshid described the supply patrol boats to Vietnam as &#8220;a major and unique step for expression of friendship&#8221;. The $19.5 million loan is for setting up the Nam Trai-IV hydropower project and the Binh Bo pumping station in Vietnam. With this soft loan, India&#8217;s total 17 lines of credits to the country will stand at $164.5 million.

*The indigenously-developed PARAM supercomputer that India is giving Vietnam costs `4.7 crore and will be used in multiple applications.*

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## indian_foxhound

good hear such news...


----------



## hkdas

Psyops said:


> If the PLAN decides to sink Indian ships, India is powerless to do anything about it. Type 056 corvettes and type 022 FAC is good enough to sink the entire Indian navy. We hold all the cards, if we decide to play hardball with India like we did in April, India will back down and give us concessions.



PLAN can do nothing. India navy ships are there for over 2 years and PLAN had done nothing. only warnings by radio and Indian navy never mind this kind of s**ts and continue their sailing

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## rcrmj

let see how the corporation between the two primitive factor driven economies will play out in SCS in near future``

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## beijingwalker

welcome..reality check

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cnleio

The weak always wish to borrow other's balls. 
Whatever Indian coming in SOC Sea or American, the CHINA COAST GUARD & China Maritime Surveillance & PLAN ships still patrolling inside the Nine dashes and prepare to cut off any cable from Vietnam.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Wholegrain

Shardul.....the lion said:


> Vietnam is blessed with huge coastline and oil rich zones and cursed to have big bully neighbor



They weren't blessed with it. They conducted a brutal invasion of Champa (now Southern Vietnam) and massacred the majority of the Cham population and replaced them with Vietnamese. They then stole the Mekong Delta from Cambodia. There are Utsuls in China descended from Cham refugees fleeing the Vietnamese invasion.



gslv mk3 said:


> Your Navy wont even dare to bring that 2000 tonne corvette near a inian Kamorta class corvette,let alone a 6000 tonne Indian frigate





gslv mk3 said:


> Chinese megaton Brainfarts...



China does not need its own naval forces to counter Indian ships in the south china sea. It can destroy Indian ships with land based missles.

China's Plan To Sink US Navy - Business Insider

Chinas New Missile May Create a No-Go Zone for U.S. Fleet - Bloomberg

Chinese Missiles Could Close U.S. Bases in Attack, Report Says - Bloomberg


----------



## Viet

Hellraiser007 said:


> Long live India - Vietnam good Relations.


man, you must increase your presence in the SC Sea. Let do some fun games.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Hellraiser007

Viet said:


> man, you must increase your presence in the SC Sea. Let us do some fun games.



Sure  , the drilling will continue and the activity there of India will be increased.
India has give its voice about SCS and International Laws in the recent summit and India - Vietnam strategic co operation will be increased down the time. 
The trade connectivity and India's entry into the ASEAN and Pacific rim countries is a significant move in our look east policy. 
India and Vietnam are going to be future manufacturing bases and Japan and S.Korea are keen to invest in the our countries.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Viet

BLACKGOLD said:


> Only way to stand up to china is by improving economy and military.
> I hope India-Vietnam relations improve.


100 per cent, we must stand united against the bully. The Chinese are rude and greedy, we must stop them before it is too late.



Hellraiser007 said:


> Sure  , the drilling will continue and the activity there of India will be increased.
> India has give its voice about SCS and International Laws in the recent summit and India - Vietnam strategic co operation will be increased down the time.
> The trade connectivity and India's entry into the ASEAN and Pacific rim countries is a significant move in our look east policy.
> India and Vietnam are going to be future manufacturing bases and Japan and S.Korea are keen to invest in the our countries.


Yes, if they come to the Indian Ocean, than you come to the SC Sea.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Hellraiser007

Viet said:


> Yes, if they come to the Indian Ocean, than you come to the SC Sea.



They come to Indian Ocean which is already occupied by India .... 

We have Islands all over IOR close to India and we are setting up bases in all strategic locations, we are also building bases for our marines. IN is growing very fast and can take on any formidable foe. We will get one aircraft carrier this year end and two more are planned.
Our Destroyers,frigates, corvettes and other combatants are inducted very fast

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Rocky rock

*Obama warns China against &#8216;coercion&#8217; at sea*

US President Barack Obama warned China on Thursday against the using force or intimidation in its tense maritime disputes with its neighbours and urged a peaceful resolution.

Obama, meeting Chinese officials who were in Washington for wide-ranging talks, &#8220;urged China to manage its maritime disputes with its neighbours peacefully, without the use of intimidation or coercion,&#8221; a White House statement said.

Tensions have steadily risen between China and Japan, which accuses its growing neighbour of sending an increasing number of ships to exert its claim over sparsely populated islands managed by Tokyo in the East China Sea.

The Philippines and Vietnam have also charged that China has used assertive means to exert claims in the conflict-riven South China Sea, although tensions have abated slightly with Hanoi in recent weeks.

State Councilor Yang Jiechi, addressing a press event at the end of the two days of talks, said that China supported &#8220;freedom of navigation in all oceans&#8221; and &#8220;will continue to firmly implement its policy.&#8221;

The United States since 2010 has repeatedly been outspoken over the South China Sea, saying that it has a national interest in ensuring freedom of navigation but does not take sides on individual claims.

With an eye on the tensions, the United States has boosted military cooperation with Japan and the Philippines - which are both treaty-bound allies - as well as with former war adversary Vietnam.

http://globalnation.inquirer.net/80569/obama-warns-china-against-coercion-at-sea

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Shardul.....the lion

Wholegrain said:


> They weren't blessed with it. They conducted a brutal invasion of Champa (now Southern Vietnam) and massacred the majority of the Cham population and replaced them with Vietnamese. They then stole the Mekong Delta from Cambodia. There are Utsuls in China descended from Cham refugees fleeing the Vietnamese invasion.




Just like Manchus captured Han China then Xinjianag and tibet.....

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Wholegrain

Shardul.....the lion said:


> Just like Manchus captured Han China then Xinjianag and tibet.....



You mean how like the British created India from dozens of disunified states?


----------



## ephone

Warned China??? Ha ha ha.


----------



## Zero_wing

Man good just like two imperial government create many enemies here


----------



## Silverblaze




----------



## EastSea

Wholegrain said:


> You mean how like the British created India from dozens of disunified states?



Man Qing created China. Without Man people, how many countries should be in mainland chine today ?


----------



## Minjitta

ephone said:


> Warned China??? Ha ha ha.




lol like if china cares, right china?


----------



## tranquilium

Mr. Pot, please meet Mr. Kettle.


----------



## Rocky rock

*this was the reply from china: State Councilor Yang Jiechi, addressing a press event at the end of the two days of talks, said that China supported &#8220;freedom of navigation in all oceans&#8221; and &#8220;will continue to firmly implement its policy.&#8221;  *


----------



## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

drone bhajane gey.....


----------



## Bienvenido

*PH slaps China with 8 facts vs 'baseless' claim*
BY PATERNO ESMAQUEL II
07/15/2013 

MANILA, Philippines  Point by point, the Philippines rebuffed China on Monday, July 15, after the Chinese Foreign Ministry said the Philippines' Department of Foreign Affairs (DFA) lied in Belgium about the West Philippine Sea (South China Sea) dispute.

In a press conference, DFA spokesman Raul Hernandez presented 8 facts to belie the statement made by Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Hua Chunying last Friday, July 12.

Hernandez took exception to this statement by Hua: The Philippines' claim that it had exhausted almost all political and diplomatic avenues for a peaceful settlement of the dispute is completely not true.

Hua was referring to a speech by Philippine Foreign Secretary Albert del Rosario in Brussels, Belgium, last July 9, about the maritime dispute between the Philippines and China.

In turn, Hernandez said on Monday, *The Chinese statement is baseless.* He also blasted *Chinas rigid position that goes:* Tanggapin ninyo na amin ang buong South China Sea bago tayo mag-usap. *(First accept that the whole South China Sea is ours before we start talking.)*

*8 points vs China*

For the record, Hernandez said, we wish to present the facts as follows:

1. As we had previously stated on numerous occasions, the Philippines and China have been exchanging views on these disputes in attempts to achieve negotiated solutions since the first Philippines-China Bilateral Consultations on the South China Sea Issue were held in August 1995. However, despite more than 17 years of consultations, no progress has been made.

2. Since intrusions in the Bajo de Masinloc started in April 2012 alone, we have had nearly 50 consultations with China.

3. On maritime talks indicated by China in the ASEAN meetings in Brunei, we clarify that, in fact, the Philippines invited China to hold informal talks. This was held early last year, including a two-day session in Manila. Subsequent plans to meet further were overtaken by continuing intrusions by China, especially in Bajo de Masinloc since April last year.

4. We had all along been indicating publicly our 3-track approach of diplomatic, political, and legal tracks, including arbitration.

5. Prior to our filing of the arbitration case, in contradiction with Chinas declaration in the ASEAN meetings in Brunei that we did not signal a possible Philippine arbitration track, we did invite China to join us in bringing the issue to a dispute settlement mechanism to resolve the issue on a long-term basis. This was officially communicated through a note verbale dated April 26, 2012. In its official response to our note verbale, China stated that our proposal was a 'none ground' issue and it urged the Philippines 'to refrain from any infringement on Chinas territorial sovereignty.'

6. Prior to this, on various occasions, we had verbally invited China to join us in ITLOS. In fact, during the very first official visit of Secretary Albert F del Rosario to China in July 2011, he proposed to Chinese top leaders to jointly bring this issue to ITLOS for adjudication. During the visit, Secretary Del Rosario met at length with Foreign Minister Yang Jiechi who subsequently brought the Secretary to meet with then Vice President Xi Jinping.

7. Secretary Albert F del Rosario visited Beijing 3 times with an invitation for the Chinese Foreign Minister to visit Manila for consultations. Up to now, we are awaiting a favorable response to our renewed invitations.

8. In all of these dialogues, China has consistently maintained its hard line position of indisputable sovereignty over the South China Sea, including the West Philippine Sea, based on historical facts. The Chinese unequivocal message: Tanggapin ninyo na amin ang buong South China Sea bago tayo mag-usap. It has, therefore, become impossible to continue bilateral discussions on disputes in the West Philippine Sea with China on the basis of this rigid position. This led us to finally resort to arbitration under Annex VII of the UNCLOS.

'Peaceful' move but...

Hernandez added the Philippines remains steadfast in peacefully resolving the dispute before the International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea (ITLOS). The arbitral tribunal to settle the dispute is now in place, he noted.

China, however, has rejected the proceedings initiated by the Philippines.

We moreover reiterate that the Philippines adheres to the agreement reached between the leaders of the Philippines and China in 2011 not to let the maritime disputes affect the broader picture of friendship and cooperation between the two countries, Hernandez said.

The Philippines and China remain caught in a decades-long dispute over portions of the West Philippine Sea.

To help settle the issue, Del Rosario has invited Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi to visit the Philippines. This was after reportedly testy exchanges between them in the recent Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) forum in Brunei.

Territorial disputes also drive a wedge between China and other members of the ASEAN  Brunei, Malaysia, and Vietnam.  Rappler.com

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

Wholegrain said:


> They weren't blessed with it. They conducted a brutal invasion of *Champa *(now Southern Vietnam) and massacred the majority of the Cham population and replaced them with Vietnamese. They then stole the Mekong Delta from Cambodia. There are Utsuls in China descended from Cham refugees fleeing the Vietnamese invasion.


They could thank you for what happened to them. They just paid a price for their aggression against Vietnam.

Actually the Kingdom of Champa and Khmer Empire were the two most powerful nations in SE Asia. Over centuries they posed a serious threat to Vietnam. Encouraged by China (Ming Dynasty), they kept attacking us and killed our people, until we said enough is enough. At the end of the day we wiped them off the map.

When the Vietnamese army conquered the Champa capital of Vijaya in 1471, we burned the city to the ground and butchered them until the last man, the Khmers suffered similar fate. Especially the Chams did a mistake and calculated with Chinese help in case of Vietnamese invasion. A clear message was sent out to other nations in SE Asia: don´t mess with us, and it is not wise to side with China as they cannot help you, stay neutral! 

I think this message is still understood, even after 600 years.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## ephone

What do you think???


Minjitta said:


> lol like if china cares, right china?


----------



## ViXuyen

Viet said:


> They could thank you for what happened to them. They just paid a price for their aggression against Vietnam.
> 
> Actually the Kingdom of Champa and Khmer Empire were the two most powerful nations in SE Asia. Over centuries they posed a serious threat to Vietnam. Encouraged by China (Ming Dynasty), they kept attacking us and killed our people, until we said enough is enough. At the end of the day we wiped them off the map.
> 
> When the Vietnamese army conquered the Champa capital of Vijaya in 1471, we burned the city to the ground and butchered them until the last man, the Khmers suffered similar fate. Especially the Chams did a mistake and calculated with Chinese help in case of Vietnamese invasion. A clear message was sent out to other nations in SE Asia: don´t mess with us, and it is not wise to side with China as they cannot help you, stay neutral!
> 
> I think this message is still understood, even after 600 years.


Viet Nam annexed the Mekong Delta from Cambodia without losing one single soldier; epic victory of total ownage.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Malaya

*UN tribunal gives PH, China until Aug. 5 to comment on draft rules to govern case - DFA*
By: InterAksyon.com
July 16, 2013

*MANILA - The Arbitral Tribunal that has been appointed to hear the case brought by the Philippines against China under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea has given the two parties until August 5 to comment on the draft rules that would govern the hearing of the case.*

This was contained in a joint statement by the Department of Foreign Affairs and the Office of the Solicitor General released Tuesday announcing that the tribunal was formally constituted July 11 at The Hague.

The arbitral proceedings are now officially under way, said the joint announcement.

At its first meeting on July 11, the Arbitral Tribunal approved a draft set of Rules of Procedure to govern the proceedings. In its request for comments on the draft by August 5, the tribunal asked the two countries to propose a schedule for the submission of their written pleadings.

According to the DFA and the OSG, the Philippine government and its Counsel are now studying the draft rules of procedure, and will submit comments and a proposed schedule for the written pleadings as requested by the tribunal.

The Philippine government is pleased that the Arbitral Tribunal is now formally constituted, and that the arbitration process has begun. The department and the OSG have pledged their fullest cooperation with the tribunal, in order to assure a fair, impartial, and efficient process that produces a final and binding judgment in conformity with international law, the joint announcement said.

The department said it will issue statements from time to time to keep the public informed about the progress of the arbitration. Information will also be made available to the public on the website of the Permanent Court of Arbitration, PCA-CPA. 

The Hague is seat of arbitration

At their first meeting on July 11, the president and members of the tribunal also designated The Hague as the seat of the arbitration and the Permanent Court of Arbitration as the registry for the proceedings.

Both the Philippines and China had previously been requested to submit their views on these two matters, and the Philippines consented to both.

The Philippines is questioning Chinas nine-dash line as basis for its sweeping claims in the South China Sea under Annex VII of the UNCLOS.

The Philippines claims parts of the South China Sea and refers to them as the West Philippine Sea.

China, which insists on a bilateral solution to the conflict, rejected the arbitration in February, saying the Philippines case was legally infirm.

Along with 161 other countries, both the Philippines and China are signatories to the 1982 accord allowing them to seek legal remedy on territorial disputes.

Aside from the Philippines and China, Brunei, Malaysia, Taiwan and Vietnam have overlapping claims over the resource-rich waters.

UN tribunal gives PH, China until Aug. 5 to comment on draft rules to govern case - DFA - InterAksyon.com


----------



## Malaya

*Hearings on PH, China dispute begin*
BY PATERNO ESMAQUEL II
POSTED ON 07/16/2013 







*MANILA, Philippines &#8211; Despite opposition from Beijing, the designated arbitral tribunal has begun to hear the Philippines&#8217; unprecedented case against China over the West Philippine Sea (South China Sea).*

The Department of Foreign Affairs (DFA) and the Office of the Solicitor General (OSG) jointly made this announcement Tuesday, July 16, days after another heated exchange between the Philippines and China.

The tribunal &#8220;was formally constituted and held its first meeting on July 11 at the Hague, the Netherlands,&#8221; DFA spokesman Raul Hernandez said in a press briefing.

*&#8220;The arbitral proceedings are now officially under way,&#8221;* Hernandez added.

China, however, has repeatedly rejected the proceedings initiated by the Philippines under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS).

Hernandez said the process will continue despite this, as the tribunal consults both parties "in every step of the way."

*Will the Philippines win the case by default, given that China snubs it?* Hernandez replied that *the case "will be heard on its merits,"* and a*dded the Philippines has a "big advantage"*

*"We brought this case because we feel that we have a big advantage considering the provisions of international law, particularly UNCLOS, and it has always been our position that the 9-dash line claim of China has been expansive, excessive, and illegal as far as international law is concerned,"* Hernandez said.

*The battleground*

For the next few months, or even years, the battleground in this case is in the Hague, the Netherlands.

Hernandez said the president and members of the tribunal have chosen this "as the seat of the arbitration and the permanent court of arbitration as the registry for the proceedings."

He said the Philippines &#8220;consented to both.&#8221; He added that the tribunal asked both parties for comments by August 5, and requested them to propose a schedule for their written pleadings.

*&#8220;The Philippine government is pleased that the arbitral tribunal is now formally constituted, and that the arbitration process has begun. The department and the OSG have pledged their fullest cooperation with the tribunal, in order to assure a fair, impartial, and efficient process that produces a final and binding judgment in conformity with international law,&#8221;* the DFA said.

The International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea (ITLOS) has named a topnotch maritime judge as president of the arbitral tribunal in the Philippines' case against China. Thomas Mensah, an 81-year-old judge from Ghana and the first ITLOS head, presides over the 5-member arbitral tribunal.

The West Philippine Sea dispute heated up again in the past few days, after the Chinese Foreign Ministry said the Philippines lied in Belgium about their territorial row.

On Monday, July 15, Hernandez presented 8 facts to belie the statement made by Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Hua Chunying last Friday, July 12.

The Philppines, among other members of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN), has sought to peacefully resolve its territorial row with China. It is, for instance, part of upcoming meetings with China so &#8220;that we can have a discussion on a way forward,&#8221; Foreign Secretary Albert del Rosario said.

Del Rosario has also invited Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi to visit the Philippines despite reportedly &#8220;testy exchanges&#8221; between them at a recent ASEAN meeting.

Hearings on PH, China dispute begin

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Malaya

*China hits Manila as UN arbitration proceedings on Spratlys dispute start*
By Tarra Quismundo
Philippine Daily Inquirer
Wednesday, July 17th, 2013

*MANILA, Philippines &#8211; With the Philippines&#8217; arbitration bid progressing before the United Nations, Beijing has blasted Manila for its legal recourse to settle maritime disputes in the West Philippine Sea (South China Sea), and accused the Philippines of deviating from the agreed upon guidelines of discipline, as well as provoking tensions in the disputed waters.*

In strongly worded remarks, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson Hua Chunying scored the Philippines for its &#8220;indifference&#8221; to China&#8217;s position and charged Manila with discrediting Beijing before the international community.

&#8220;We are firmly opposed to the Philippines&#8217; indifference to China&#8217;s lawful rights and interests and legitimate concerns as well as its willful act of pushing for international arbitration,&#8221; said Hua in a statement posted on the Chinese Foreign Ministry&#8217;s website on Tuesday.

&#8220;It is difficult for China to understand how the Philippines could continue to play up the issue of the South China Sea, distort the facts and smear China,&#8221; she added.

Hua issued the comments as a rebuff to Department of Foreign Affairs (DFA) spokesperson&#8217;s eight-point statement on Monday, where the official defended the Philippines&#8217; move to seek UN arbitration to halt Chinese incursions into its maritime zones in the disputed waters and invalidate China&#8217;s nine-dash line claim.

The five-member arbitral tribunal has just initiated proceedings on the Philippines&#8217; case at The Hague, continuing despite China&#8217;s refusal to take part in the process.

*Assistant Secretary Raul Hernandez said Monday that &#8220;it has become impossible to continue bilateral discussions&#8221; with China given its &#8220;rigid&#8221; and &#8220;hard line position of indisputable sovereignty&#8221; over the West Philippine Sea following more than 17 years of failed negotiations and consultations.*

He maintained that the Philippines has always been committed to peacefully resolving the discord and to work towards a binding Code of Conduct to institutionalize the bounds of discipline among claimant states, upgrading the current Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea (DOC).

Hua&#8217;s retort on Tuesday continues a string of fiery exchanges between Manila and Beijing of late, including verbal swaps between Foreign Affairs Secretary Albert Del Rosario and Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi behind closed doors in June&#8217;s Association of Southeast Asian Nations (Asean) ministerial meetings in Brunei.

As he appealed for a peaceful resolution to the dispute, Del Rosario also recently scored China&#8217;s incursions in the West Philippine Sea before members of the European Parliament, Belgian officials and maritime experts in Brussels, saying Beijing&#8217;s military buildup presents a challenge to freedom of navigation in critical international sea lanes in the disputed waters.

China maintains vessels at the Ayungin (Second Thomas) Shoal off Palawan and the Panatag (Scarborough) Shoal off Zambales, the site of a tense standoff between the two countries last year, despite repeated appeals from the Philippines for Beijing to respect the country&#8217;s exclusive economic zone.

But Beijing saw the Philippines&#8217; moves as an act meant to taint China.

&#8220;It is difficult for China to understand how could the Philippines continue to play up the issue of the South China Sea, distort the facts and smear China,&#8221; said Hua.

&#8220;It is regrettable that over recent years, the Philippines has changed its attitude and approach in handling the issue, gone back on its consensus with China, broken its commitment in the DOC, cast aside the framework of dialogue upheld by a majority of countries, refused to cooperate, aggravated the situation and set off the incident of the Huangyan Island (Panatag Shoal) by harassing Chinese civilians with warships, casting a shadow over China-Philippine relations and peace and stability of the South China Sea,&#8221; Hua said.

Hua further blamed the Philippines for provoking tensions in the waters, scoring the country&#8217;s presence in parts of the Spratly Islands (Nansha to the Chinese).

&#8220;The Philippines&#8217; illegal occupation of some of the islands and reefs of China&#8217;s Nansha Islands is the direct cause to the South China Sea dispute between China and the Philippines. China sticks to the longstanding position of safeguarding national territorial sovereignty, which is totally legitimate,&#8221; said Hua.

She asserted Beijing&#8217;s commitment to regional peace and stability and its long-standing position of seeking bilateral negotiations to settle the international maritime dispute, which also involves claimants Vietnam, Brunei, Malaysia and Taiwan.
On the contrary, the Philippines has long been seeking a multi-lateral approach, engaging venues like the Asean to take a unified approach in settling the dispute with China.

Since last year, the Philippines has filed a flurry of diplomatic protests to Chinese actions concerning the West Philippine Sea, including the establishment of a new city to administer almost all of the disputed territories, the stamping of maps bearing the questioned nine-dash line on new Chinese passports and the conduct of military drills and patrols in contested waters.


----------



## Malaya

China hits PH 'smear job' during ASEAN meet
ABS-CBNnews.com
Posted at 07/17/2013

*MANILA - A Chinese official on Tuesday scored the Philippines for refusing to resolve a territorial dispute through bilateral means and for seeking international arbitration to resolve the conflict.*

In a statement, China's Foreign Ministry Spokesperson Hua Chunying said Beijing stays committed to solving the territorial dispute through bilateral negotiations "in accordance with relevant regulations of international law and the spirit of the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea."

*"We regret that the Philippines stated that it has become impossible to continue bilateral discussions with China, and are dissatisfied with its refusal to diplomatic negotiation and closure of the door to dialogue. We are firmly opposed to the Philippines' indifference to China's lawful rights and interests and legitimate concerns as well as its willful act of pushing for international arbitration,"* Hua said.

Hua said China and the Philippines earlier reached a consensus to resolve bilateral disputes through negotiation. The official noted that the China National Offshore Oil Corporation and Philippine National Oil Company signed an agreement for joint marine seismic undertaking on certain areas of the South China Sea, which later included Vietnam.

"However, it is regrettable that over recent years, the Philippines has changed its attitude and approach in handling the issue, gone back on its consensus with China, broken its commitment in the DOC, cast aside the framework of dialogue upheld by a majority of countries, refused to cooperate, aggravated the situation and set off the incident of the Huangyan Island by harassing Chinese civilians with warships, casting a shadow over China-Philippine relations and peace and stability of the South China Sea," Hua said.

The official noted that the Philippines "publicly criticized China during the recently held ASEAN Foreign Ministers' Meetings, regardless of the consensus among ASEAN countries, and thus was reasonably refuted by China."

"It is difficult for China to understand how could the Philippines continue to play up the issue of the South China Sea, distort the facts and smear China."

Foreign Affairs Secretary Albert del Rosario earlier accused China of increased militarization in the disputed West Philippine Sea (South China Sea), saying Beijing&#8217;s tactics were a threat to peace in the region.

Del Rosario issued a statement after a People&#8217;s Daily report warned of a &#8220;counterstrike&#8221; if the Philippines continued to provoke China in the West Philippine Sea.

Del Rosario has said China&#8217;s position to settle the dispute on a bilateral basis is not correct because there are at least four other ASEAN claimants to the various areas of the South China Sea, &#8220;and so we believe that a multilateral approach is the way to do this.&#8221;

China lays claim to nearly the entire South China Sea and the islands that are also being claimed by Japan in the East China Sea.

The area, delineated by the so-called nine-dash line of China, covers over 100 islets, atolls and reefs.

The Philippine claim in the Spratly Islands covers eight islands and reefs.

Aside from the Philippines and China, the Spratlys is also being claimed in whole or in part by Taiwan, Vietnam, Brunei and Malaysia. With a report from Agence France-Presse

China hits PH 'smear job' during ASEAN meet | ABS-CBN News


----------



## Malaya

*US to get wider access to South China Sea for military warships and aircraft*
Published July 16, 2013






*The US has expanded negotiations with Manila and is seeking to build facilities and storage sites in the Philippines, as well as gain greater access to bases for its aircraft and warships. Bases the US is considering are all facing the South China Sea.*

Talks for greater US military presence in the South China Sea comes as the territorial dispute between China and the Philippines is heating up. Since February, the Philippine military has complained that Chinese navy and government vessels have increased their presence in the disputed area.

Ambassador Jose Cuisia this week told reporters that the Philippines plans to provide the US with greater access to its bases on a temporary and rotational basis, which would bolster its defense. Although Manila will not provide permanent basing rights to the US, it would allow the US to have a wider presence in the South China Sea.

The 1998 Visiting Forces agreement allows US forces to maintain a rotational presence in the Philippines, but Washington is now looking to expand upon that and fund its own facilities.

&#8220;We need to expand (the 1998 pact) further because we may have to build some additional facilities,&#8221; Cuisia said during a press conference in Manila. Such facilities would be funded for &#8220;joint use&#8221; and would allow the US to store its military equipment and supplies in the Philippines. Cuisia claims that such facilities would allow the country to be prepared for potential humanitarian aid and disaster relief efforts.

&#8220;Then whenever it&#8217;s needed it&#8217;s so much easier to use that equipment because it&#8217;s already there,&#8221; Cuisia said.

Facilities and military bases that the US wants to use for its aircraft and warships are facing the South China Sea, which would allow Washington to operate its warships and aircraft near the disputed territory.






*(L-R) Philippine Foreign Affairs Undersecretary Erlinda Basilio, Philippine Ambassador to the US Jose Cuisia, US Assistant Secretary of Defense Mark Lippert and US Assistant Secretary of State for East Asian and Pacific Affairs Kurt Campbell (AFP Photo / Jay Directo)*

The Philippine military last month told Reuters that it plans to restore air and naval bases at Subic Bay, which is a former US Navy facility that would provide the US with a strategic location in the region. Military and diplomatic sources this month told Reuters that all of the military facilities that the US is requesting greater access to are facing China.

The US has already used Subic Bay for ship visits, and US defense contractor Huntington Ingalls Industries last year set up an operation to service US Navy ships. James Hardly, Asia-Pacific editor for HIS Jane&#8217;s Defense Weekly, told the New York Times that this might be an indication that the US will keep its warships and aircraft in the Philippines in the long run.

*&#8220;Certainly the buildup in Subic by companies that expect to support the US military suggests and expectation that this is going to be a semi permanent presence,&#8221;* he said.

Carl Baker, program director of the Pacific Forum of the Center for Strategic and International Studies, told Voice of America that talks of a base-sharing plan is another indicator that the US may be creating a permanent presence in the Philippines.

*&#8220;I think that&#8217;s sort of the model that they&#8217;re following,&#8221; he said. &#8220;So they can put people on these bases on a more permanent basis without calling it &#8216;permanent basing.&#8217;&#8221;*

News of the expanded US presence in the Philippines may ignite further anger in Chinese officials as tensions between the two Asian nations remain high. In late 2012, the US announced that it would increase its number of troops, aircraft and ships that rotate through the Philippines &#8211; a statement that angered Chinese officials and prompted Chinese media to describe the Philippines as troublemakers seeking conflict. At the time, Chinese Communist Party Chief Xi Jinping urged his military to prepare for a struggle.

The Philippines is currently locked in a dispute with China over claims in the South China Sea, in particular the resource-rich Scarborough Shoal and Second Thomas Shoal. Cuisia told reporters that informal talks between Manila and Washington have reached the ministerial level, and that both sides are hoping to strike a deal before President Benigno Aquino steps down in 2016.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Malaya

*Philippine Group Plans Global Anti-China Protests*
By Zachary Keck
July 18, 2013






*On Wednesday a new coalition of Philippine groups announced their intention to hold anti-China protests across the world on July 24.*

The West Philippine Sea (South China Sea) coalition said that it will convene protests over the South China Sea dispute on July 24 in various cities around the world, including Manila, various cities in the U.S., London, Rome, Sydney, Copenhagen, and Israel, among others, local media outlets reported, citing a press conference the coalition held on Wednesday. The protests will be held outside Chinese embassies and consulate buildings, the group said.

The West Philippine Sea coalition is comprised of numerous former Philippine officials, led by former Interior Secretary Rafael Alunan III and including former National Security Adviser Rolio Golez. Local media described the coalition as consisting of &#8220;former government officials, youth leaders, netizens and even Filipino-Americans,&#8221; while others noted that musicians and artists would also be participating in the rallies.

Golez told reporters on Wednesday that, *&#8220;This protest rally is only going to be the start of something that we intend to become bigger, not only in the Philippines but worldwide, in order to tell the world what is happening in our backyard &#8211; the bullying that's being done by our big neighbor.&#8221;*

Meanwhile, Alunan said that *July 24 was a &#8220;global day of protests.&#8221; He added: &#8220;We protest the belligerent and blatant disregard of international laws in the West Philippine Sea. We ask China to respect the rule of law and be a good neighbor.&#8221;*

Vonz Santos, head of the NGO U.S. Pinoys for Good Governance, said his group was leading the effort in North America, where it is planning protests in Washington DC, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Chicago, Houston, Denver, and Atlanta.

The U.S. Pinoys for Good Governance has previously organized protests in U.S. cities over the South China Sea issue, which have been attended by hundreds of people.

The main site of the protests in the Philippines will be outside the Chinese Consulate in Makati City in metro Manila. Local newspapers said crowds of up to 5,000 people were expected to attend.

A similar protest outside the Chinese Consulate in May 2012 only drew about 200 protestors, way below the expected number of attendees.

Protests over sovereignty issues are common in much of the region, including Vietnam, which like the Philippines is often at odds with China over overlapping claims of sovereignty in the South China Sea.

China itself has witnessed numerous anti-Japan protests, most recently last year after Japan moved to nationalize the Diaoyu/Senkaku Islands.

China and the Philippines have been at odds over overlapping claims in the South China Sea for years, which has led to prolonged standoffs on a number of occasions. Last year a standoff over the Scarborough Shoal saw China effectively seize control of the area through conducting frequent patrols.

The Philippines have sought to counter this move by bolstering its own defenses while strengthening ties to key allies like the United States and Japan.

*Last month the Philippines announced it was considering giving Washington and Tokyo increased access to a naval base in Subic Bay to both Washington and Tokyo. Reuters reported on Tuesday the agreement currently being negotiated between the U.S. and the Philippines is far more expansive than public announcements let on.*

The Philippines has also appealed to international tribunals to help mediate its dispute with China. Just this week the Philippines announced that a five-member tribunal under the U.N. Convention on the Law of the Sea had convened to hear Filipino complaints against China. The Philippines had asked China to join it in seeking international adjudication for their dispute, but Beijing demurred.

Philippine Group Plans Global Anti-China Protests | ASEAN Beat | The Diplomat

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Malaya

*Pinoys urged to join anti-China rally July 24* 
Thursday, 18 July 2013 






*THE newly formed West Philippine Sea Coalition (WPSC) yesterday urged Filipinos worldwide to join on July 24 the simultaneous global protest rallies against China&#8217;s &#8220;shoal-grabbing&#8221; in the West Philippine Sea.*

Former National Security Adviser Roilo Golez, one of the convenors of the WPSC, said the rally in the Philippines will be staged in front of the Chinese consulate in Makati City from noon to 2 p.m. on July 24.

*Golez said at least 5,000 are expected to attend including the Filipino artists from the F.U. Movement or Filipinos Unite Movement, which includes popular figures such as Noel Cabangon, Charice Pempengco, Billy Joe Crawford, and Anne Curtis.*

Singer Leah Navarro will lead the Philippine national anthem during the rally. 

Coalition spokesman TJ Besa said the rally will be conducted in a peaceful manner.

Vonz Santos of the US Pinoys for Good Governance (USPGG) said his group will hold demonstrations at the Chinese Embassy in Washington D.C. and at Chinese consulates in Los Angeles, Chicago, Houston and Saipan.

Santos said protests are also planned in front of Chinese government offices in Denver and Atlanta. A press statement said similar demonstrations will be staged in Rome, London, Sydney, Copenhagen and Phnom Penh.

The coalition said similar activities will be held in Chinese facilities in Singapore.

*&#8220;This protest rally is about telling the world about what&#8217;s happening in our backyard&#8230; The bullying being done by our big neighbor China,&#8221;* Golez said.

&#8220;We call on Filipinos everywhere to rise and stand as one united nation in dignified defiance in the face of China&#8217;s threats of war every time we object to its unwarranted violations within our EEZ (exclusive economic zone),&#8221; he added.

The WPSC is composed of various groups such as Di Pasisiil Movement which Golez heads, Former Senior Government Officials (FSGO), Akbayan, Rebolusyonaryong Alyansang Makabansa, US Pinoys for Good Governance (USPGG), and several religious groups, among others.

Former interior secretary Rafael Alunan, co-convenor of the WPS Coalition, said the group is not against the Chinese people &#8220;but against your government&#8217;s policy of intimidation and intrusion into our exclusive economic zone.&#8221;

Alunan also said the WPSC is asking China &#8220;to take the peaceful path toward dispute resolution to prove its claims before ITLOS (International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea).&#8221; &#8211; With Victor Reyes

Malaya Business News Online - Philippine Business News | Online News Philippines - Pinoys urged to join anti-China rally July 24

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Malaya

*Army to shift to territorial defense
Nolcom chief Catapang says troops ready to defend PH vs China aggression*
By Tonette Orejas
Inquirer Central Luzon
Wednesday, July 17th, 2013






*CITY OF SAN FERNANDO&#8212;The military&#8217;s Northern Luzon Command (Nolcom) is shifting its operations from internal security to territorial defense in 2014, focusing on the Luzon coastlines amid disputes over marine boundaries in Southeast Asia, the new Nolcom chief said on Wednesday.*

Maj. Gen. Gregorio Pio Catapang Jr. revealed the new thrust two weeks after he assumed leadership of the AFP command, which operates in the Ilocos, Cagayan, Cordillera and Central Luzon regions.

Nolcom has jurisdiction over the Bajo de Masinloc, also known as Scarborough Shoal in Zambales, which is being claimed by China. President Aquino has publicly stated that his administration would give the United States and Japan wider access to Philippine bases to protect the country&#8217;s territory.

*Gas rich*

Also in Nolcom&#8217;s area of concern is the gas and mineral-rich Benham Rise off northeastern Luzon.

Nolcom oversees the 5th and 7th Infantry Divisions of the Philippine Army, 1st Air Division of the Philippine Air Force and the Naval Forces Northern Luzon of the Philippine Navy.

Replying to questions the Inquirer sent to him by e-mail, Catapang said he would begin to &#8220;integrate the capability of major services operationally controlled by Nolcom in conducting joint operations so that we can transition from internal security operations to territorial defense.&#8221;

He said the responsiveness of the* Armed Forces of the Philippines is adjusting to a** &#8220;very globalized world [where] the threats to our national security will likewise be global.&#8221;*

*&#8220;Of course, we have to protect our 7,100 plus islands against global threats such as terrorism, climate change, international crimes and maritime security, plus protect our interest in exclusive economic zones,&#8221; *he said.

*2013 target*

By the end of 2013, Nolcom should have declared the four regions &#8220;peaceful and ready for further development,&#8221; he said.

As of June, Nolcom had assessed the insurgency in the four regions as having been &#8220;reduced to a very minimal level,&#8221; which would allow it to shift priorities next year, Catapang said.

He said remnants of the New People&#8217;s Army (NPA) that killed nine policemen in two recent ambushes in Luzon are being hunted down.

He described as &#8220;desperate moves&#8221; the rebel attacks on policemen on May 27 in Cagayan where eight policemen were killed, and on July 28 in Tadian, Mt. Province, where a policeman was killed among more than 90 officers who were jogging in the mountains.

*Core competency*

&#8220;In the absence of a clear headway toward a negotiated peace settlement between the government and the Communist Party of the Philippines, the NPA remnants will [fight] to survive,&#8221; Catapang said.

He said the attacks were meant &#8220;to highlight that there are still NPA remnants and spoilers that can sow fear in the area.&#8221;
The police would take the lead role in internal security operations, with the AFP providing support role, he said.

&#8220;We will not give up our core competency in fighting the remnants of the NPA to maintain our skills for guerrilla warfare,&#8221; he said, clarifying that the Scout Rangers and Special Forces would focus on military operations. &#8220;This will free our infantry battalions to train for territorial defense,&#8221; he said.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Malaya

*Philippines urges China: Be a 'responsible nation'*
By Louis Bacani (philstar.com) | July 18, 2013

*MANILA, Philippines - The verbal tussle between officials of the Philippines and China continues with the Department of Foreign Affairs (DFA) on Thursday urging the Asian giant to be a "responsible nation" in the West Philippine Sea dispute.*

In a statement, DFA spokesperson Raul Hernandez said China has no choice but to follow the rule of law since the international arbitration for the case filed by the Philippines against China on the territorial dispute is now underway.

*&#8220;To be accepted as a responsible nation, China has no choice. It must show to the international community its respect for the rule of law, including the mechanism of arbitration which is being pursued by the Philippines to clearly define respective maritime entitlements in the South China Sea,"* Hernandez said.

He also said China can end the ongoing sea dispute by *"defining what the core issue is."*

*"China claims indisputable sovereignty over nearly all of the South China Sea through its nine-dash line claim, which is an excessive claim that is in gross violation of the international law,&#8221; *he said.

Earlier this week, China's Foreign Ministry Spokesperson Hua Chunying accused the Philippines of allegedly continuing "to play up the issue of the South China Sea, distort the facts and smear China."

Malacañang refused to comment on China's latest statement, but reasserted that the country has legal basis to bring its territorial case against China before the United Nations (UN) amid criticisms from the Asian giant.

Presidential spokesperson Edwin Lacierda welcomed the decision of the UN arbitration tribunal to start hearing the case of the Philippines against China on the West Philippine Sea dispute.

*"We have always maintained that we have legal basis to bring the case before the arbitral tribunal. Certainly, this is a step that we welcome and we hope that this will be resolved in an expeditious manner,"* Lacierda said at a televised press briefing on Thursday.

Part of the issues that are going to be handled by the arbitral tribunal will be on jurisdiction, according to the Palace official.

*"Knowing that we filed it in the arbitral tribunal, we have already anticipated that the issue on jurisdiction will be raised. And, therefore, our lawyers, both the Solicitor General and the other lawyers involved, are fully cognizant of that particular issue," *said Lacierda.

The Philippines decided to take the legal action against China after exhausting all other means to peacefully settle their disputes in the West Philippine Sea, part of the South China Sea which Beijing claims is part of its historical sovereign territory.

The country is seeking to stop Chinese incursions into its exclusive economic zone in the West Philippine Sea and to invalidate China&#8217;s sweeping claim to the disputed waters.

Philippines urges China: Be a 'responsible nation' | Headlines, News, The Philippine Star | philstar.com

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Malaya

*China must respect rule of law - DFA*
By Pia Gutierrez, ABS-CBN News
07/18/2013






*MANILA - The Department of Foreign Affairs (DFA) said that China has no choice but to show respect for the rule of law if they want to be accepted by the international community as a responsible nation.*

Foreign Affairs Spokesman Raul Hernandez said that this includes "the mechanism of arbitration which is being pursued by the Philippines to clearly define their respected maritime entitlements in the South China Sea."

The DFA issued this statement Thursday in response to Chinese Foreign Minister Hua Chunying's claim that the Philippines has continued to show "indifference to China's lawful rights and interests and legitimate concerns," adding that they continue to oppose the "(Philippines') willful act of pushing for international arbitration."

Hua said the Philippines' actions cast a shadow over the stability of the South China Sea as well as the relations of the two countries.

The DFA, however, said China can just as easily end the dispute over South China sea by defining what the core issue is: China's excessive claim of indisputable sovereignty over nearly all of the which is an excessive claim, in gross violation of international law.

This exchange comes amid plans of groups of Filipinos to hold a Global Day of Protest against China on July 24.

Groups are scheduled to hold rallies on Chinese embassies worldwide in protest over China's continuing claim of disputed territories at the West Philippine Sea.

Hernandez said that though the government is not sanctioning these moves, Filipinos have all the right to express in a peaceful manner their position on this maritime dispute.

He said this is unlikely to affect the conduct of the ongoing international arbitration, as the international tribunal will proceed based on its rules and with the merits of the case.

China must respect rule of law - DFA | ABS-CBN News

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Malaya

*Global survey: 2 in 5 Filipinos see China an 'enemy'*
By Camille Diola (philstar.com) | Updated July 19, 2013






*MANILA, Philippines - China's image in the Philippines is largely negative due to the tension over the West Philippines Sea with one in four Filipinos say the Asian giant has become the country's foe.*

A global survey by Pew Research Center released on Thursday finds that in 2013, *39 percent of the population consider the Asian giant as an "enemy," while 35 percent think China is "neither."*

*Only 22 percent of Filipinos see China as a "partner."*

Among the countries that have a standing territorial disputes with China, it is also the Filipinos who say the sea row with China is a "big problem" in the country.

*About 90 percent of Filipinos find the dispute over the West Philippine Sea a headache for the nation. Most of the Japanese (82 percent), South Koreans (77 percent) and Indonesians (62 percent) also think the tension with China is a "big problem."*

Several Filipinos--at 22 percent--say China is or will be the world's leading superpower, but most still think the US is and will continue to be at the top globally.

*"More than six-in-ten in Japan (67 percent), the Philippines (67 percent), and South Korea (61 percent) name the US as the leading economic power,"* the study said.

Moreover, more Asians including Filipinos are troubled about China's growing military power.

*"Nearly all the Japanese (96 percent) and South Koreans (91 percent) and strong majorities of Australians (71 percent) and Filipinos (68 percent) think China's expanding martial capabilities are bad for their country,"* the report said.

The Japanese have given China the worst ratings in the survey with only 5 percent of them expressing a positive view.

"Territorial frictions with China are considered major problems in South Korea and the Philippines, although unlike Japan, South Koreans and Filipinos are divided in their overall assessments of China," the report said.

Young adult Filipinos, however, have a slightly more positive views about China with 54 percent of 18 to 29 years old find the country favorable. Only 38 percent of Filipinos over age 50 favor China, while 50 percent of those within the 39 to 40 age bracket have a positive opinion of it.

*Filipinos find America 'favorable'*

When it comes to the world's major military and economic powers, the United States has a more positive image in the Philippines than China does.

The Pew study showed that almost *nine in 10 or 85 percent of Filipinos favor the US, while only one in two or 48 percent of the population find China favorable*.

Most of the people in the country also think that the US is an ally, with only three percent saying they see it as an enemy and 13 percent think the US is neither a friend nor foe.

*The Philippines' positive perception of America is recorded the highest in Asia and fourth globally. The US is seen as an ally by 90 percent in Israel, 88 percent in El Salvador and 84 percent in Senegal.*

Filipinos' positive opinion of the America, however, has slight dwindled since 2002 when 90 percent of Filipinos saw the country favorable.

Global survey: 2 in 5 Filipinos see China an 'enemy' | Headlines, News, The Philippine Star | philstar.com

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ViXuyen

This is Moc Tinh-Hai Thach project aka Block 5.2. This block is 370 km from Viet Nam's shore. In 2007, British Petroleum pulled out because of Chinese pressure but Viet Nam continue on with it. So much for Vietnam giving "concession" to China

Construction of the project
bien dong 1 nhat ky cong truong - YouTube

Launch of its jacket
H

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cirr



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

ViXuyen said:


> This is Moc Tinh-Hai Thach project aka Block 5.2. This block is 370 km from Viet Nam's shore. In 2007, British Petroleum pulled out because of Chinese pressure but Viet Nam continue on with it. So much for Vietnam giving "concession" to China
> 
> Construction of the project
> bien dong 1 nhat ky cong truong - YouTube
> 
> Launch of its jacket
> H



*CNOOC, BP sign PSC in South China Sea*

HOUSTON, July 16

07/16/2013

By OGJ editors 

CNOOC, BP sign PSC in South China Sea - Oil & Gas Journal

BP will always choose China over Vietnam&#12290;

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ViXuyen

cirr said:


> *CNOOC, BP sign PSC in South China Sea*
> 
> HOUSTON, July 16
> 
> 07/16/2013
> 
> By OGJ editors
> 
> CNOOC, BP sign PSC in South China Sea - Oil & Gas Journal
> 
> BP will always choose China over Vietnam&#12290;


Congratulation!. You now get to share the profits with BP. On the other hand, Viet Nam does not have to share a buck of profit with BP as they completely pulled out of block 5.2

Thank you China

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Soryu

block 5.2 laid in Vietnam's EEZ, so it's ok for us to do anything that we want.
China can do anything with BP on their shore ...


----------



## cirr

500-ton *county-level* Fishery Law enforcement vessel launched:












This class is enough for dealing with the baboons and monkeys in the SCS.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## yowhenyo

cirr said:


> 500-ton *county-level* Fishery Law enforcement vessel launched:
> 
> This class is enough for dealing with the baboons and monkeys in the SCS.



Why would it deal with it's own crew??

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

yowhenyo said:


> Why would it deal with it's own crew??



Well, some monkey want funny, so they build it and play. Just wonder how many monkey that ship can carry !?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

youthful of Vietnamese people in South West Cay , Spartly Island

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cirr

More ships to plough the waves in the SCS&#65306;






3 CMS&#65288;CCG&#65289;vessels of 1300 tons&#12289;1800 tons and 4000 tons under construction&#65306;






All will be launched in a month&#12290;

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

4 CCG vessels and 3 CMS vessels patrolling counterclock wise around the Diaoyu Islands according to Japanese report&#65306;





















All pics are courtesy of the Japs&#12290;

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

On your mark - set - go&#65281;






The 1st digit denotes the operation area of the vessel&#65292;with &#8221;3&#8220; for the SCS&#12290;

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Soryu

cirr said:


> 4 CCG vessels and 3 CMS vessels patrolling counterclock wise around the Diaoyu Islands according to Japanese report&#65306;
> All pics are courtesy of the Japs&#12290;


This is "South China Sea News & Discussions" Topic, kid.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zero_wing

Ya guys keep doing what your doing make everyone hate you it just makes our job easier

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

Soryu said:


> This is "South China Sea News & Discussions" Topic, kid.



Right&#12290;HPS is in Guangzhou facing the SCS&#12290;

Vessels produced by this shipyard will play a major role in any future conflict in the SCS&#12290;

Stop the cheap talking&#12290;Do something concrete&#12290;

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

cirr said:


> bla bla bla bla....



You need to go to meet doctor, kid.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Malaya

*Vietnam president: We oppose China's nine-dash line claim*
Friday, 26 July, 2013






Vietnam&#8217;s president on Thursday voiced firm opposition to China&#8217;s claims in the South China Sea but declined to back a Philippine bid to take the row to a UN tribunal.

On a visit to Washington, President Truong Tan Sang rejected China&#8217;s so-called &#8220;nine-dash line&#8221; through which it claims virtually all of the strategic sea including islands close to neighbouring countries.

&#8220;We cannot find any legal foundation or scientific basis for such a claim and therefore it is the consistent policy of Vietnam to oppose the nine-dash line plan by China,&#8221; Sang told the Center for Strategic and International Studies.

But Sang declined comment when asked if Vietnam would join the Philippines which in January said it was asking an arbitration panel of the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea to declare China&#8217;s claims invalid.

&#8220;As a member of the United Nations, the Philippines has the legal right to carry on with any proceedings they would like,&#8221; Sang said.

The Philippines and Vietnam have led criticism of what they consider increasingly assertive claims by China in the South China Sea.

The Philippines has had especially tense relations with China, which seized the Scarborough Shoal, an outcrop claimed by Manila, after a two-month naval standoff last year.

But friction has eased slightly between Vietnam and China, with Sang visiting Beijing last month and agreeing to set up a hotline to try to prevent mishaps from escalating.

China separately has increasingly butted heads with Japan, which fears that Beijing is trying to exert control over resource-rich waters in the East China Sea.

Sang earlier Thursday met US President Barack Obama, who encouraged calm in the South China Sea.

Sang and Obama in a joint statement called for &#8220;the settlement of disputes by peaceful means&#8221; and renewed support for a code of conduct to manage potential mishaps.

Vietnam president: We oppose China's nine-dash line claim | South China Morning Post

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Malaya

*300 Filipinos in Rome protest China &#8216;intrusion&#8217;*
By Albert Dilao Madrigal
INQUIRER.net contributor
Friday, July 26th, 2013






ROME&#8211;Some 300 Filipinos in Rome, Italy took a time out from their work Thursday to hold a protest rally against China&#8217;s &#8220;intrusion&#8221; in the West Philippine Seas (South China Sea).

Organized by various Filipino communities in Rome, the peaceful rally was held at the historic plaza of Piazza Del Popolo, which is one of Rome&#8217;s main tourist spots.

China claims nearly all of the West Philippine Sea, even waters approaching the coasts of neighbouring countries.

Asean members the Philippines, Vietnam, Brunei and Malaysia also have competing claims to parts of the sea, as does Taiwan.

The rivalries have for decades been a source of regional tension, with China and Vietnam fighting battles in 1974 and 1988 for control of some islands in which dozens of Vietnamese soldiers died.

Tensions have again grown in recent years with the Philippines, Vietnam and some other countries expressing concern at increasingly assertive Chinese military and diplomatic tactics to stress control over the sea. With *Agence France-Presse*






*A Filipina holds a placard denouncing China&#8217;s &#8220;aggressive stance&#8221; in the West Philippine Sea*


----------



## Malaya

*Loud protests in US cities hit China&#8217;s &#8216;aggression&#8217;*
By Mandy Chavez, Vivian Zalvidea Araullo
INQUIRER.net US Bureau
Thursday, July 25th, 2013







SAN FRANCISCO&#8211;Some 500 members of the Filipino and Vietnamese American communities staged a protest rally in front of the Chinese consulate in San Francisco Wednesday (Thursday Manila time).

Seven Filipino World War 2 veterans chained themselves to the entrance of the consulate. No arrests were made.

A large contingent of Vietnamese protesters chanted continuously, demanding that China get out of Vietnam and the Philippines. Vietnamese war veterans ripped and trampled on the Chinese flags.

This was one of the biggest joint rallies by communities from the two Asean neighbors ever since Chinese expansionism in Southeast Asia became the geopolitical issue that it is now.

&#8220;They are here to defend the Philippines&#8217; and Vietnam&#8217;s sovereignty against Chinese aggression,&#8221; said Rudy Asercion, commissioner of the Veterans War Memorial Commission. The rally dispersed peacefully.

Filipinos in major cities in the US and other countries gathered in front of Chinese embassies and consulates to rally against &#8220;Chinese aggression in the West Philippine seas.&#8221;






*Vietnamese protesters joined Filipinos in San Francisco protest against &#8220;China&#8217;s aggression.&#8221; PHOTO/Mandy Chavez*

he US Pinoys for Good Governance (USPGG), organized the protests. The group strongly supported the candidacy of President Benigno Aquino III in 2010. The protests marked one year after China created the Sansha Prefecture, which administers several island groups in the disputed South China Sea.

In New York City, Filipino activists demonstrated in front of the United Nations headquarters to denounce China&#8217;s &#8220;aggression and continued occupation&#8221; of Philippine territory.

&#8220;We are here at the United Nations so that they will declare that China has no basis in international Law,&#8221; said USPGG president Loida Nicolas Lewis. Protesters came as from as far away as Connecticut and Boston.

In Washington, DC, Celestino Almeda, 96, Filipino American WWII veteran held up a map with China&#8217;s 200-mile exclusive economic zone under the United Nation&#8217;s Convention of Laws of the Seas (UNCLOS) cut away from the West Philippine Sea and Vietnam Sea. The protest rally was held in front of the Embassy of China.

Likewise, Trinh Nguyen-Mau, co-chair of the Vietnamese Community of DC-Maryland-Virginia pointed out to the news media the 200-mile exclusive economic zones of Vietnam on the map with the West Philippine Sea and the South China Sea.






*Celestino Almeda, 96-year-old WWII veteran, cuts out China&#8217;s economic zone out of West Philippine Sea and Vietnam Sea map. PHOTO/ Eric Lachica*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Malaya

*Filipinos tell China: Bad feng shui to take what isn't yours*
BY PATERNO ESMAQUEL II






*GLOBAL PROTEST.' Hundreds of protesters troop to the Chinese consulate to denounce Beijing's 'bullying' over the West Philippine Sea. *

MANILA, Philippines &#8211; Marimi de la Fuente quietly held up a homemade poster Wednesday, July 24, as groups swelled in front of the Chinese consulate in Makati City to protest China&#8217;s incursions in the West Philippine Sea (South China Sea).

&#8220;Bad feng shui to take what isn&#8217;t yours,&#8221; her poster said.

De la Fuente wasn't among the groups that organized the rally, but she came anyway to protest &#8220;Chinese aggression and their imperialism.&#8221; (Watch Rappler's video report below.)






She joined hundreds who trooped to the World Center, which houses the Chinese consulate, at noon on Wednesday.

The newly formed West Philippine Sea Coalition led the protest, which stretched until past 1 pm.

De la Fuente said: &#8220;I have nothing against the Chinese people. I have everything against the Chinese government. They&#8217;re bullying our government. That&#8217;s why I&#8217;m here. I want them to know that they cannot bully the Filipino people.&#8221;






*BAD LUCK. Marimi de la Fuente says China's territorial incursion is 'bad feng shui.' Photo by Rappler/Paterno Esmaquel II*

The rally came as the Philippines and China engaged in a word war over their territorial dispute.

The Philippine government on Wednesday disowned the protest. "No, we do not have a hand on this," presidential spokesman Edwin Lacierda said.

In an apparent reaction to the rally, the Chinese consulate on Wednesday closed its visa section "for security reasons."

*Like Jericho&#8217;s walls*

Singing the Philippine national anthem twice, protesters considered the rally a show of patriotism.






*FOR BEIJING. Protesters blow their horns to reenact the fall of Jericho*

Several times during the two-hour event, a Christian group also blew horns to reenact the biblical story of the fall of Jericho.

In the Bible, the Israelites conquered Jericho after priests marched for 6 days and, on the 7th day, blew their horns. Jericho&#8217;s walls collapsed &#8211; which protesters also want to happen to China in its territorial row with the Philippines.

Wearing a collarless shirt, former Sen Rene Saguisag said he attended the rally as an &#8220;ordinary citizen&#8221; to support the movement against China&#8217;s claims.

He said it&#8217;s time the Philippines put its foot down, after China&#8217;s incursions in the Ayungin and Scarborough Shoals.






*'IT'S OURS.' One of the protest leaders, former National Security Adviser Roilo Golez, shows maps to disprove China's territorial claims. *

&#8220;We have to take a stand, dahil 'yung Ayungin, Scarborough, pinipitik na lang tayo eh. It&#8217;s our own self interest. Hindi sa Kano, hindi sa Intsik, hindi sa Hapon, kundi kung anong ikabubuti ng Pilipino, dahil ayoko na paglaki ng mga apo ko, problema pa rin ito,&#8221; Saguisag said.

*(We have to take a stand, because in Ayungin and Scarborough, China is picking on us. It&#8217;s our own self-interest. Not for the Americans, not for the Chinese, not for the Japanese, but for Filipinos, because I don&#8217;t want my grandchildren to grow up with this problem unresolved.)*

*War? So what?*

Saguisag deflected concerns that the protest could worsen the rift between Manila and Beijing.





*
POLICE BARRICADE. Policemen block protesters from going near the building that houses the Chinese consulate. *

&#8220;Kaysa naman pipi tayo na hindi natin pinapaano ang ano natin. Eh ano kung lumala? Giyera sa Tsina? Ang ikinakatakot ko pag nagkagiyera sa Tsina, baka manalo tayo eh,&#8221; the former senator said.

*(That&#8217;s better than keeping quiet about this. So what if it worsens? War with China? My fear is that if we&#8217;re caught in a war with China, we could even win.)*

He said the rally will make China &#8220;pay a little attention. This will be noticed, I&#8217;m sure.&#8221;

Organizers said similar rallies were scheduled in other countries, such as Australia, Canada, and the United States.






*RALLY ORGANIZERS. The West Philippine Sea Coalition urges Filipinos to protest against China's claims through other means.*

One of the protest leaders, former Interior Secretary Rafael Alunan III, said Filipinos should use social media and other means to protest against China.

&#8220;We&#8217;re asking Filipinos to take leadership wherever they are,&#8221; Alunan said. &#8211; Rappler.com

Filipinos tell China: Bad feng shui to take what isn't yours


----------



## Malaya

*Protests In The Philippines Over China's Claims On Scarborough Shoal Shut Down Chinese Visa Office*
By Michelle FlorCruz
on July 25 2013






China is continuing to stake its claim on various areas off its mainland, upsetting several of its neighboring Asian countries, including Japan, Malaysia and Vietnam. Now, protests in the Philippines against China&#8217;s claims over disputed maritime territory and the Scarborough Shoal, known to the Chinese as Huangyan Island, have escalated, prompting China to close its visa offices in Manila over safety concerns.

Hundreds of Filipinos gathered outside the visa offices on the one-year anniversary of Beijing&#8217;s declaration of the new Sansha prefecture-level city in the Paracel Islands to oversee its other claims in the South China Sea. Among the protesters was Rafael Alunan, a Filipino businessman who wanted to ensure that the protests were not against the people but rather &#8220;against your government&#8217;s policy of home invasion in our exclusive economic zone&#8221; and intended for the demonstration to be peaceful. Still, Alunan&#8217;s words had some bite.* &#8220;We have a long history of resistance, and you are well advised that Filipinos get angry badly,&#8221; *he told reporters from the South China Morning Post.

The group of roughly 500 protesters gathered outside singing traditional nationalist songs, holding picket signs with statements like &#8220;China, get out of our waters&#8221; while yelling about the country&#8217;s &#8220;gunboat diplomacy&#8221; and other similar sentiments, even garnering support from Filipino political figures. In attendance were former congresswoman Risa Hontiveros-Baraquel, former congressman and chair to the House defense committee Rolio Golez, and Senator Rene Saguisag.

Also showing their support were a small group of Vietnamese, who chose to join the rally because state restrictions on assemblies of people in their home nation are much tougher. *&#8220;We Vietnamese like to stand beside you in this struggle against an aggressive China,&#8221;* Ngo Van Kha, 24, from Hanoi, said. Besides China, Vietnam and the Philippines, three other governments are claiming territory in the South China Sea: Brunei, Malaysia and Taiwan. Though the islands seem to be clusters of barely inhabited land, the gas reserves and potential mineral deposits, as well as maritime shipping lanes, are valuable to all parties involved.

As China continues to be at the center of the disputes, Southeast Asian countries are finding alliances with each other. When Japan&#8217;s Prime Minister Shinzo Abe visits Manila this weekend, maritime security and political cooperation in regards to the countries' respective disputes with China will likely be on the agenda. Japan is engaged in an ongoing tug-of-war over the Diaoyu/Senkaku Islands located in the East China Sea. In perhaps the most volatile situation regarding China and disputed territories, both nations have started flexing their military muscle around the disputed territory via ships and aircraft.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Malaya



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Malaya

*China's new '10-dash line map' eats into PHL territory; Manila protests*
By MICHAELA DEL CALLARJuly 26, 2013

*The Philippines has protested China's recent publication of a new "10-dash line" map that places sprawling offshore territories it claims within Beijing's "national boundaries," officials said Friday.*

In a confidential June 7, 2013 note verbale handed to the Chinese Embassy in Manila, the Department of Foreign Affairs (DFA) said it "protests the reference to those dash lines as China's national boundaries."

*The new Chinese map, which was first published last January by China's state mapping authority Sinomap Press, features 10-dash lines instead of the popularly known "nine" dashes to mark a huge swath of the South China Sea in a tongue-shaped encirclement as Chinese territory.
*
Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines, Taiwan and Vietnam have been contesting China's massive claim of the territory.

Nine dashes in the new Chinese map are in the South China Sea and a tenth dash has been placed near Taiwan, apparently to signify that territory's status as a Chinese province, analysts said.






*Reinforcing territorial claims*

An analyst said the new map was another step by China to reinforce its territorial claims amid a series of territorial confrontations in recent years and the legal challenge posed by Manila against Beijing's claims before an international arbitration tribunal.

Professor Carl Thayer of the University of New South Wales at the Australian Defence Force Academy said "the significance of China's latest map of the South China Sea lies not in its ten-dash lines but the naming of numerous features in the South China Sea that had not been listed on previous maps."

"China appear to be laying the ground for claiming sovereignty of every feature, such as reefs, shoals as well as rocks, islets and islands," Thayer told GMA News Online by e-mail.

"Asian claimants should issue official statements reiterating their claims to sovereignty over features in the South China Sea. They should also state unequivocally that naming a feature on a map so recently will not be taken as evidence of sovereignty by any international court of legal tribunal," Thayer said.

"Maps, in international law, are only pieces of information. The key to sovereignty is to demonstrate long-standing continuous occupation and administration over features in the South China Sea," he added.

*Strong objection*

The DFA stated in its protest that it "strongly objects to the indication that the nine-dash lines are China's national boundaries in the West Philippine Sea/South China Sea."

The Philippine government has adopted the name West Philippine Sea to refer to parts of the South China Sea that are also being claimed by China.

Vietnam has also squared off with China in the contested region due to recent maritime confrontations. Many countries are threatened that the conflicts could suddenly turn violent, even by accident, and result in a major armed conflict in Asia.

China claims "indisputable sovereignty" over the entire waters, where undersea gas deposits have been discovered in several areas. China's claims overlaps with the offshore territories claimed by Asian neighbors surrounding the South China Sea.

*UNCLOS*

The Philippines has sought international arbitration and asked a tribunal formed under United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) and based in The Hague to declare China's massive territorial claim as illegal and invalid.

The DFA reiterated its position in the note verbale that China's claim "has no basis under international law, particularly the 1982 UNCLOS.&#8221;

UNCLOS is a 1982 accord by 163 countries, including the Philippines and China, that aims to govern the use of offshore areas and sets territorial limits of coastal states.

"Like other littoral states in the South China Sea, China is a state party to the UNCLOS and as such its maritime areas are only those which are established by UNCLOS. Maritime claims of China based on the nine-dash line are contrary to UNCLOS and invalid," the document said.

China's nine-dash line claim in the South China Sea, it added, "encroaches on the sovereign rights and jurisdiction of the Philippines" and in Bajo de Masinloc or Scarborough Shoal, site of a standoff last year between Chinese and Philippine ships.

The Philippines maintains that Scarborough lies within its Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ) as mandated by the UNCLOS.

The standoff temporarily ended in June last year when President Benigno S. Aquino III ordered the withdrawal of Philippine vessels in the area due to bad weather. China's ships stayed put and Chinese authorities set up barriers at the narrow mouth of the shoal to block non-Chinese fishermen from gaining entry, including Filipino fishermen.

American officials have warned that it was in the US national interest that the disputes are resolved peacefully and freedom of navigation is guaranteed in the contested waters. &#8212; KBK, GMA News

China's new '10-dash line map' eats into PHL territory; Manila protests | News | GMA News Online

WTF?


----------



## Slavery

Protest and cry all you want, nothing will stop us.


----------



## rcrmj

the very next day after the pathetic protests, the phinos went back for their usual maid jobs

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zero_wing

Racist much oh please this just the start! Please keep it up so alliance of free nations will finally put you in your place. With the Nazi Germany and The old Empire of Japan and Arrogant old Italy

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Slavery

Zero_wing said:


> Racist much oh please this just the start! Please keep it up so alliance of free nations will finally put you in your place. With the Nazi Germany and The old Empire of Japan and Arrogant old Italy



When you get free from your American master, then lets talk. Pinoys are world renowned for their maids.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zero_wing

Slavery said:


> When you get free from your American master, then lets talk. Pinoys are world renowned for their maids.



Again racist b.s which is noting hell only you imperialist chekwas believe that! while studies and statistics and common sense are simply not in your side just like your claims! to a sea and since you love that i will do the same: Wow this coming from the largest producres of fakes and dangerous products and the world main source of prostitutes hahahaha. Sure when you have brain and learn to some hygiene will talk but will stick to protest see who do you like that! Again blame the American? again is that the best you can do?hahahaha losers Cut the b.s only an idiot would say that! and point proven! This is the result of your arrogance you facing India, Japan, Us ,Vietnam and Yes the US so again its just like world war 2 please read some history i mean real history not the b.s issue you were given at your brainwashing facilities you call schools.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## gpit

Looks like a lot of clowns jumping up and down these days&#8230;.


Chinese civilization has grown for thousands of years among protests, and even invasion(!) by surrounding &#8220;barbarians&#8221;. It only becomes even greater and shinier.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

gpit said:


> Looks like a lot of clowns jumping up and down these days&#8230;.
> 
> 
> Chinese civilization has grown for thousands of years among protests, and even invasion(!) by surrounding &#8220;barbarians&#8221;. It only becomes even greater and shinier.



Chinese civilization is that "bad feng hui to take what is'nt your".

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## longyi

*Fish the real hazard in South China Seas
* By Lucio Blanco Pitlo III 



The hydrocarbon potential of the South China Sea (SCS) has become a source of tension between the littoral states of the region and, to a certain extent, a number of outside actors. However, the SCS's significance to global oil and gas supplies is overhyped. Instead, it is the region's fisheries rather than fossil fuels that have the potential to ignite a regional conflict.

*Fish not fuel*

Put simply, speculation that the SCS constitutes a "second Persian Gulf" lacks substance. According to the US Energy Information Administration (EIA), the region's offshore energy resources - at just over 11 billion barrels of oil and 190 trillion cubic feet of natural gas - are comparable to European supplies.

Contrary to popular belief, most of SCS's oil and gas resources are in non-disputed territory, closer to the shores of coastal states. Factors such as technological challenges, inadequate seismic studies, plus huge costs and political risks also place serious limits on deep-water drilling farther into the SCS.

But while the value of oil and gas resources in the SCS remains the subject of debate, the potential value of its fishery and aquaculture resources is not in doubt. Currently, the SCS accounts for one-tenth of the world's global fisheries catch, and plays host to a multi-billion dollar fishing industry. Fish protein accounts for more than 22% of the average Asian diet and growing incomes across Asia will inevitably raise demand.

Initially, fishing across much of the South China Sea was not even a matter of geopolitical concern. For decades, fishermen were oblivious to maritime boundaries and international maritime laws, with littoral states often turning a blind eye to their activities.

This has changed in recent years. Dwindling fisheries around coastal areas and long range commercial fishing have pushed the fishing frontier farther into the disputed waters of the SCS. As a result, fishing has now become a politically sensitive and emotionally charged national security issue for claimant countries.

*The politics of fish*

After years of relative state neglect, fishermen across the region are now receiving increased government and public support. A nascent fishing lobby is emerging in several countries advocating better state assistance and support for fishermen encroaching into territorial waters.

However, the growing securitization of the SCS' maritime and territorial disputes puts the fishermen of the region in a precarious position. No longer are they innocent actors making a livelihood: increasingly they are viewed as agents of their home governments and pawns in the maritime policies of their respective states.

This viewpoint is not entirely unjustified given the significant trend in some countries - most notably China - that has seen marked increase in coordination and physical support between fishermen and maritime authorities.

For instance, in April 2012, Chinese fishermen in the Scarborough Shoal, about to be apprehended for illegal fishing, were able to radio Chinese Maritime Surveillance (CMS) ships to intercede on their behalf. The fishermen were caught capturing endangered, protected marine species, including giant clams; however, the intervention by the CMS effectively prevented their arrest by the Philippine maritime authorities.

China has also increased its SCS patrols significantly in the last decade - going from 477 in 2005 to 1,235 in 2009. Though the assertion of state presence worked to the fishermen's advantage in this case, in the long-run such precedents are detrimental to the security of fishing industries in regional states, and those who depend on them.

As distinctions between private economic interests and geopolitical objectives grow blurred, private economic activities become politically tainted. Relatively "neutral" projects, such as constructing shelters for protection during typhoons, are now seen with suspicion and alarm: previous experience has shown that such shelters can eventually turn into military bases or be used for dual purposes. 

A case in point was the Chinese occupation of Mischief Reef, a feature in the Philippines' Kalayaan Island Group and within its 200 nautical mile exclusive economic zone. Though in 1995 the project was allegedly for the construction of fishermen shelters, by 1998 it had evolved into a military garrison. Fishermen who enter contested waters are now seen as challenging a coastal state's sovereignty. Such intrusions provoke calls among claimants for stronger penalties for illegal fishing, making it difficult for governments to release foreign offenders for fear of domestic backlash.

The passing of domestic laws that formalize maritime claims in the SCS is also a worrying development. Since fishermen are known to migrate to neighboring areas where maritime law enforcement is weaker, this incentivizes aggrieved local fishermen to compel their government to take a tougher stance on the issue. What results is a competitive dynamic between disputants to build up their naval and coast guard assets, exacerbating tensions and contributing to further regional instability.

Overlapping EEZ claims and the squabble for resource access has already spurred a regional naval arms race, with China in the lead in constructing patrol, coastal defense, and warships, to be deployed over the next decade.

*Spare the fishermen*

This dynamic is unsustainable. Alongside the need to safeguard livelihoods, the migratory nature of living marine resources needs a collaborative joint strategy between littoral states if marine resources are to be managed sustainably. At present, this trans-boundary issue does not receive the attention it deserves in international maritime law, which grants "exclusive" territorial rights over a maritime area, contributing to a tragedy of the marine commons.

Agreements on fishing seasons, maximum catch limits, prohibition on the capture of certain marine species and protection from unilateral arrests are among the "neutral" issues that may facilitate dialogue without spilling over into geopolitics. The last thing individual fishermen need is to get caught in a political standoff, or become modern day soldiers of territorial expansion. This blurring between civilian and state interests leaves them vulnerable as legitimate targets of neighboring governments, in whose waters they used to fish long before such tensions surfaced. 

Asia Times Online :: Fish the real hazard in South China Seas


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

EastSea said:


> Chinese civilization is that "bad feng hui to take what is'nt your".



That's the root of the problem lies, its a disputed territories. As in it could belong to China or whoever. I think the guy mean Bad Karma.


----------



## Zero_wing

Well china wants the wold system back if you have big military you rule all typical imperial bull those days have pass they dont want rules only their rules what bull


----------



## Snowden

Zero_wing said:


> Well china wants the wold system back if you have big military you rule all typical imperial bull those days have pass they dont want rules only their rules what bull



What the hell are you talking about? Learn to speak proper English so we can understand you.


----------



## cirr

CMS 7028 launched







at Chuandong Shipbuilding & Heavy Industry Co. Ltd&#12290;in Chongqing 

Looks though more and more shipyards are taking part in the building of law enforcement vessels&#12290;


----------



## Zero_wing

Snowden said:


> What the hell are you talking about? Learn to speak proper English so we can understand you.



Then have you eyes check


----------



## Assault Rifle

Philippines to move air force, navy camps for faster access to disputed South China Sea areas.
Published July 28, 2013
Associated Press

MANILA, Philippines  The Philippine defense chief and a confidential report say the country plans to relocate major air force and navy camps to a former U.S. naval base north of Manila to provide faster access to waters and islets being contested by China in the South China Sea.
Defense Secretary Voltaire Gazmin said Sunday that as soon as relocation funds are available the government will move the air force and navy, and their aircraft and warships to Subic Bay, a trade port since the 1992 departure of the U.S. Navy.
A confidential defense department document obtained by The Associated Press says Subic's strategic location will cut travel time for fighter planes compared with Clark airfield also north of Manila, where some air force aircraft are located.

Philippines to move air force, navy camps for faster access to disputed South China Sea areas. | Fox News


----------



## SirHatesALot

Peace people,talk peace.


----------



## Nike

i don't know with the title of this thread because it will lead to some misleading, we already know Phil. Air Force doesn't operate single jet Fighter aircraft right now, and about the warships there is no any worth single warship need to be called because they are just a relic from WW II. Maybe my words look harsh but Philliphine Armed Force need to reconstruction their armed forces from start to battle alleged corruption and their sloth bureaucracy systems and their Parliament.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Zero_wing

We are we buying 12 jets from South Korea and ships from other countries as well but will still continue since the plan is five years for the modernization efforts i mean weapons are not like cars we can buy so easily since we have to bid and later order and wait for the said weapon to get here it will take us years to wait and decades to fully modernized and our efforts are only for minimum defensive posture and reflecting our budget again we are not talking about easy fast so like everything we have to wait


----------



## Anonymous_CryptoSpy

go baby go.being home the charms.show some real steels.great move,though late.

I smell noodles burning.... gosh no one is gonna eat

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Nike

Zero_wing said:


> We are we buying 12 jets from South Korea and ships from other countries as well but will still continue since the plan is five years for the modernization efforts i mean weapons are not like cars we can buy so easily since we have to bid and later order and wait for the said weapon to get here it will take us years to wait and decades to fully modernized and our efforts are only for minimum defensive posture and reflecting our budget again we are not talking about easy fast so like everything we have to wait



You need more efforts and drastic measures than what your government already had done in previous days and years if you want to face China and other contestants in SCS races of claims. You must noted what the Malaysian doing to your government when they facing Sulu Sultanate problems in their countries, "They ignores your defence Forces capabilities!!". 

I will put it straighfordwardly, even with economic hardship and poverty ridden problems Ethiopia had a more decent Armed Forces than you peoples. Honestly your government is more corrupt and bureaucratic than what we have here. Decisions is coming too late and even without a good result afterthat. What i can see is even your government cannot complete the purchasing of 21 units second hand Huey's in the same frame times Indonesian needed to producing more than 24 new Bell 412 EP. Philliphine with more than 280 billions US dollar GDP and more than 90 millions populations will be proper to have decent eQuipment for your armed forces like the Vietnam or Algeria did have.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cirr

An ant doing its level best to shake a giant tree&#65311;

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

cirr said:


> An ant doing its level best to shake a giant tree&#65311;



Dont you know "ants" as Britain, Portugal, Japan... divided the "giant cake" China and captured HK, Macau... until recently?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zero_wing

madokafc said:


> You need more efforts and drastic measures than what your government already had done in previous days and years if you want to face China and other contestants in SCS races of claims. You must noted what the Malaysian doing to your government when they facing Sulu Sultanate problems in their countries, "They ignores your defence Forces capabilities!!".
> 
> I will put it straighfordwardly, even with economic hardship and poverty ridden problems Ethiopia had a more decent Armed Forces than you peoples. Honestly your government is more corrupt and bureaucratic than what we have here. Decisions is coming too late and even without a good result afterthat. What i can see is even your government cannot complete the purchasing of 21 units second hand Huey's in the same frame times Indonesian needed to producing more than 24 new Bell 412 EP. Philliphine with more than 280 billions US dollar GDP and more than 90 millions populations will be proper to have decent eQuipment for your armed forces like the Vietnam or Algeria did have.



As the president said we have other problems and we need to address those too we buy hardware but we need to spend wisely


----------



## Nike

Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> Dont you know "ants" as Britain, Portugal, Japan... divided the "giant cake" China and captured HK, Macau... until recently?



The China back in 19th and 20th Century is more fragile, bureaucratyc, inefficient, corrupt and fragmented while plagued by dissident and unrest and Civil war in unimaginable by 20th century standards than they are right now. The China right now what we called the United China, even the western world itself must put notion and taken careful steps while deal with them. Right now it is a reality if they calling themselves as a Giant tree. And you must put into your notes, Britain, France, USA and Japan was the aspiring superpower and global military power at their height, they are ain't ant at all. Even ASEAN regions cannot escape from their predatory ambitions right?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Snomannen

Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> Dont you know "ants" as Britain, Portugal, Japan... divided the "giant cake" China and captured HK, Macau... until recently?



Britain, Portugal ard Japan WERE/are not ants.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## grandmaster

move faster! china is waiting for phiLickPoop out there!

Reactions: Like Like:
 2


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

Yes, a country with over 100 million people as PH that is not called an "ant", although smaller than China "giant cake"...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Luftwaffe

madokafc said:


> You need more efforts and drastic measures than what your government already had done in previous days and years if you want to face China and other contestants in SCS races of claims. You must noted what the Malaysian doing to your government when they facing Sulu Sultanate problems in their countries, "They ignores your defence Forces capabilities!!".
> 
> I will put it straighfordwardly, even with economic hardship and poverty ridden problems Ethiopia had a more decent Armed Forces than you peoples. Honestly your government is more corrupt and bureaucratic than what we have here. Decisions is coming too late and even without a good result afterthat. What i can see is even your government cannot complete the purchasing of 21 units second hand Huey's in the same frame times Indonesian needed to producing more than 24 new Bell 412 EP. Philliphine with more than 280 billions US dollar GDP and more than 90 millions populations will be proper to have decent eQuipment for your armed forces like the Vietnam or Algeria did have.



I've been telling them Philippines Government is the most corrupt and that reason they are corrupt is US has made them corrupt and takes its share out of it. The Armed Forces need restructuring ground up the so called Ally US has sold trash to Philippines and keep offering them 1960's equipment, I Think Philippines has all the rights to modernization their Armed Forces. 

In a country where basic grocery is expensive I don't know how people manage to live there should be a revolution to over throw such corrupt government but seems unlikely due to US meddling.


----------



## Luftwaffe

cirr said:


> An ant doing its level best to shake a giant tree&#65311;



Hi, I'm in Chinese Block but this sort of proudness plunges Nations. You might have disputes with Philippines but they are Nation and humans that should be respected...every man and woman works to survive people may call them whatever they have every right to live and survive abusing them would interpret someone's low esteem no pun intended my friend.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Wholegrain

Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> Dont you know "ants" as Britain, Portugal, Japan... divided the "giant cake" China and captured HK, Macau... until recently?



 another Viet with no knowledge of history.

China DEFEATED Portugal at Tamao when it tried to attack China. Macau was *voluntarily leased* by Ming China to Portugal. Can you name the nonexistent war in which Portugal conquered Macau?

As for Britain, it already colonized Canada, parts of Africa, Singapore and then India by the time it reached China. It used Indian sepoys and Indian based fleets which were resupplied in Singapore and Malaya against China. It also used Congreve Rockets which were based off of Tipu Sultan's Mysore Rockets. So the entire British India was used against China. It was not an ant.



Zero_wing said:


> Take an easy guys we still building our defenses the chekwa trolls will burn the forum red with this hahahaha


 @Hu Songshan this is over the tenth time he has used this slur. If i used the n-word I'm sure I would have been BANNED already.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Nike

Luftwaffe said:


> I've been telling them Philippines Government is the most corrupt and that reason they are corrupt is US has made them corrupt and takes its share out of it. The Armed Forces need restructuring ground up the so called Ally US has sold trash to Philippines and keep offering them 1960's equipment, I Think Philippines has all the rights to modernization their Armed Forces.
> 
> In a country where basic grocery is expensive I don't know how people manage to live there should be a revolution to over throw such corrupt government but seems unlikely due to US meddling.



Not really US had made them the loser here, however Philliphine is one their key ally in Pasific region. PAF had made several contribution to US and UN military contingent while combating Communies backs in Korea War and Vietnam War. With US full military support Phillphine itself was the major regional power in ASEAN region second only after Indonesia in Soekarno era. Still in 70 era they had a formidable military power for an ASEAN countries in which they possesing some of the most advanced military aircraft and helicopter at the time, like F5, Corsair, UH 1 Huey and so on. But, i don't know what happened to Philliphine after People Power came to their house, their economic progress and military programs like had been halted forever. For first instance we can only blame for the corruption, because their alleged rampant corruption habit it is the same as in Indonesia altough i don't know which is the worst between those two. 


While people power came in Philliphine in 80 decades, US fully support those democratization transitions in Phil. while trying to save those Marcos family and keep close relations with Philliphine new government. US itself never want to see one of their close allies is so weak in military and economicaly. Several times US had offering modernizations program for PAF, but long delay and sloth bureaucratic systems in Phil. made those modernizations program took forever to become reality. As an example, After the enactment of the 1995 AFP Modernization Act, the PAF made renewed calls to purchase several fighter aircraft, with the initial plan of having 36 multirole fighters in a span of 15 years.[5] Offers included the American Lockheed Martin F-16C/D Falcon and McDonnell Douglas (now Boeing) F-18C/D Hornet, French Dassault Mirage 2000-5, and the Russian Mikoyan MiG-29. US had made several offering of used F 16 blok 32, like US offer to Indonesia, but Philliphine had made decisions to reject those offer while keep saying if those F 16 is doesn't had any value anymore.

Their Navy plan is the same, as abrupt as ever. They continue to reject Maestrale class fregate in which had full armament and will boost their Naval capacity greatly in short time, while they keep the decisions to operate some junks like Cutter class former USCGuard. It is no surprise if PNavy doesn't operate a single missile corvette or fregate till this date, so how they can hoping to face PLAN in SCS, even PLAN just need to send a skuadron of their Type 56 corvette to wipe out all of Philliphine Navy vessels. In this situations even i can made an bold assumption if Brunai riverine Navy can defeat the larger but outdated Navy of Philliphine. 

Yet, you can see Japan is same with Philliphine as they key ally of USA hegemon in Pasific area, but yet Japan still continue to build their defence capability and right now Japan still held the positions of the most modern Naval forces of any Asiatic races beside China and Korea. Same case here with other US key ally's like Australia, South Korea they still develop their respectiv armed forces amid guarante of security have been provide by US mutual alliances.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Luftwaffe

@madokafc, what do we call it at miscalculation and poor judgement by those Philippines government. 

I still say if Argentina can keep A-4 operational so does Brazil A-4/F-5s I don't know why Philippines ditched F-5.


----------



## Nike

Luftwaffe said:


> @madokafc, what do we call it at miscalculation and poor judgement by those Philippines government.
> 
> I still say if Argentina can keep A-4 operational so does Brazil A-4/F-5s I don't know why Philippines ditched F-5.



interestingly enough besides 37 units F5 PAF also operate some Vought F8 Crusader (35 units), but they placed it in open base when Mt. Pinatubo erupted. What a moron to placing those expensive machine in open base near eruptive mouintain in first place. 

Simply because they are not interested to keeping those machines flying and operational while they prefer to allocate the funds itself for other stuff. Their government always have lame excuse to justifying their stupid reasons for not to modernize their armed forces or keeping the armed forces into one of efective combat forces.

And still it is just like a joke to me, if Philliphine trying to compete in SCS race of claims with those armed forces. Besides the China side, actually they must be wary too with Vietnamese and Malaysian intention and interest in those area especially when you are talking about abundant natural resources like Oil ,gas and others earth minerals and the Viets too have a nature to over claims his area of interest .

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Luftwaffe

madokafc said:


> interestingly enough besides 37 units F5 PAF also operate some Vought F8 Crusader (35 units), but they placed it in open base when Mt. Pinatubo erupted. What a moron to placing those expensive machine in open base near eruptive mouintain in first place.
> 
> Simply because they are not interested to keeping those machines flying and operational while they prefer to allocate the funds itself for other stuff. Their government always have lame excuse to justifying their stupid reasons for not to modernize their armed forces or keeping the armed forces into one of efective combat forces.
> 
> And still it is just like a joke to me, if Philliphine trying to compete in SCS race of claims with those armed forces. Besides the China side, actually they must be wary too with Vietnamese and Malaysian intention and interest in those area especially when you are talking about abundant natural resources like Oil ,gas and others earth minerals and the Viets too have a nature to over claims his area of interest .



Interesting! but here is something Iranians got F-14s in late 1970s they got all the infrastructures with it the American standards that still stands including those famous concrete hangers, wonder if US help PHAF invested in it. So what would be the fate of KAI FA-50 in service with PHAF is unknown i hope they don't end up in storage. 

Not sure but even with those islands in hand Philippines won't be able to take full advantage the government is corrupt enough disorganized and without technocrats and visionary political personalities.


----------



## sweetouch

*Manila is on a mission impossible*
2013-07-29 07:09
By Wang Hui (China Daily)

In his state of the nation address delivered on July 22, Philippine President Benigno Aquino avoided the territorial dispute with China in the South China Sea, a move perceived by some as showing "good judgment". But Aquino's sidestepping of the South China Sea dispute should not lure others into believing that the Philippines is keen on ratcheting down the tensions.

Actions speak louder than words. In January, Manila drummed up an attempt to seek an international arbitration tribunal verdict on the disputed territories. This is just another of the tricks Manila has been playing in recent years to try and claim for itself Chinese islands and islets in the South China Sea.

To build up the momentum for such an ill-advised quest, Manila has seized every opportunity to play up the issue of international arbitration, disregarding China's opposition and the regional consensus to resolve the South China Sea disputes at the bilateral level. Last week, the spokesman for the Philippine department of foreign affairs even said that it is now impossible for the country to continue bilateral discussions with China over the dispute and the country is seeking international arbitration under Annex VII of the United Nations Convention on the Laws of the Seas.

Manila's wishful thinking is that by evoking UNCLOS, to which both Beijing and Manila are a signatory nation, there might be a chance that the international court will support its ill-grounded maritime territorial claims, which will muddle the waters and taint China's image in the world arena.

However, its new farce is doomed to failure, as it does not have a legal basis for its claim.

True, under Annex VII of UNCLOS, countries with disputes over maritime territories could seek international arbitration. But, is UNCLOS applicable to the dispute between China and the Philippines in the South China Sea? A delve into the UN convention will tell us that the answer is probably not.

In fact, both countries have proclaimed they will not accept compulsory arbitration on territorial disputes. On August 25, 2006, in a statement submitted to the UN general-secretary, the Chinese government made a declaration in pursuance of Article 298 of UNCLOS, which allows States and entities to declare that they exclude the application of the compulsory binding procedures for the settlement of disputes, including arbitration. Other countries in the Asia-Pacific, such as Australia, the Republic of Korea and Thailand have issued similar statements.

For its part, the Philippines made a 2002 declaration that the signing of UNCLOS would not impair or prejudice the sovereignty it exercises over any territory. In other words, when it comes to territorial disputes, Manila too does not recognize UNCLOS. It is crystal clear then that the international court has no jurisdiction over the dispute between China and the Philippines.
So why is it so keen on pressing ahead with arbitration?

On Jan 22, Manila said it "does not seek a determination of which party enjoys sovereignty over the islands claimed by both of them". But it later also publicly stated that the purpose of initiating the arbitration was to achieve a "durable solution" to the dispute in the South China Sea between the two countries.

By initiating the arbitration on the basis of its illegal occupation, the Philippines has attempted to distort the basic facts, deny China's territorial sovereignty and hide its illegal occupation behind a cloak of legality.

The arbitration farce is also politically driven, as Aquino wants to divert his compatriots' attention from domestic problems and boost his own popularity through whipping up nationalistic sentiments in the country. But, the massive gathering of protesters in Manila on Monday while Aquino was delivering his speech sends a clear signal to Aquino that he cannot always pin his hopes on boosting popularity by playing the nationalism card.

As its arbitration antic is doomed to hit a wall, Manila should make a wise choice now. The Philippines should stop infringing upon China's territorial waters, refrain from internationalizing the dispute and opt for resolving the issue at the bilateral level.

_The author is a senior writer with China Daily._


----------



## NiceGuy

rcrmj said:


> amusing m0nkey logic lol, Brits, Portuguese and Japanese will be very unhappy that you call them ants at the height of their power in the past``
> 
> and if put your line of context into play, viets will be the *excrement *of those ants to be precisely


Is it the reason why China wanna 'eat' us from century to century ??

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Nike

Luftwaffe said:


> Interesting! but here is something Iranians got F-14s in late 1970s they got all the infrastructures with it the American standards that still stands including those famous concrete hangers, wonder if US help PHAF invested in it. So what would be the fate of KAI FA-50 in service with PHAF is unknown i hope they don't end up in storage.
> 
> Not sure but even with those islands in hand Philippines won't be able to take full advantage the government is corrupt enough disorganized and without technocrats and visionary political personalities.



sorry for too late to reply

Iran in one hand always have a preferences about western stuff and technology, they are very satisfied with the performance of their Tomcats and Phantom during Irak Iran war but the attrition rate for both plane is very high and despite that Iran somehow manages to operate their Phantom and Tomcats until this day. Maybe we can call what Iranian government doing to keeping their Phantom and Tomcats still flying as determination and stubborness hehee. I think Subic and Clark was the most largest US bases in South East Asia even more larger and complex during their days than what they had in Saipan and Okinawa before US left Subic and Clark in 80 decades. And wonderfully, those Phillipines doesn't use Clark airfield as it should. 

Yes i am too still wondering how the Phillipine handle these FA 50 Jet Fighters if Korean delivered them someday in the near future. Even 12 jet fighters cannot make any diference when we compare them what PLAAF or PLAN Naval Aviation had in their long list, Phillipine AF still need a lot of jet fighters (and they must adding modern surface combatant ships and Submarine forces) if they wanna have more voice in those races of South China Sea. But looking at their government bureaucracy and behavior right now we can say this will be a mere fantasy from a friend.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Yukio

*Abe offers maritime help for Philippines amid China row*
AFP-JIJI
JUL 27, 2013

MANILA  Prime Minister Shinzo Abe pledged Saturday to increase maritime cooperation with the Philippines amid growing territorial disputes with China.

For Japan, the Philippines is a strategic partner with whom we share fundamental values and many strategic interests, Abe told a joint news conference with President Benigno Aquino III after they held talks in Manila.

In order to further reinforce this relationship . . . we confirm continued assistance to the capacity-building of the Philippine Coast Guard.

While Japan is being pressured by China over the Senkaku Islands in the East China Sea, the Philippines is also having to deal with Chinese territorial claims.

Japan announced earlier this year it will extend yen loans to allow the Philippines to purchase 10 Japanese patrol vessels.

The Philippines ill-equipped maritime assets have been at the forefront of tense encounters with navy and maritime surveillance vessels from China, which claims most of the South China Sea, including areas close to the Filipino coast.

China seized the Scarborough Shoal, a South China Sea outcropping just 230 km east of the main Philippine island of Luzon, last year after Manila backed down from a lengthy standoff.

This year the Philippines has complained about the presence of Chinese vessels near Second Thomas Shoal in the Spratly islands.

The prime minister and I agreed to strengthen maritime cooperation, which is a pillar of our strategic partnership, Aquino said Saturday.

We reviewed the security challenges that confront our nations and pledged to cooperate in advancing our common advocacy for responsible action from international players.

We believe this can be done by upholding the rule of law in international affairs and finding just and peaceful solutions to our territorial disputes and maritime concerns.

Abe said he intends to use his partys decisive victory in the Upper House election last weekend to pursue his vision of Japans role in the region.

Against this backdrop I intend to further proceed with strategic diplomacy which will contribute to regional and global peace and security, he said. I intend to attach particular importance to our relationship with ASEAN.

Members of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations  Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines and Vietnam  have overlapping territorial claims in the South China Sea besides having to deal with China flexing its muscles.

Defense Minister Itsunori Onodera, who visited the Philippines last month, said the two countries will cooperate in terms of the defense of remote islands . . . as well as protection of maritime interests.

Summit in Singapore

*SINGAPORE*
Kyodo

Japan and Singapore have agreed to strengthen economic cooperation, confirming plans to jointly promote the export of infrastructure systems to other countries.

During their meeting Friday in Singapore, Prime Minister Shinzo Abe and Singapore Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong also confirmed plans to coordinate moves in negotiating for the Trans-Pacific Partnership trade agreement and another large free-trade bloc known as the Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership, which encompasses East Asia.

Abe said at a joint news conference after their talks that he and Lee agreed to strengthen cooperation between the two countries defense forces, especially for disaster and rescue operations.

Lee said they exchanged views on overlapping territorial disputes, an apparent reference to Chinas territorial claims.

I expressed the hope that the countries concerned would manage these differences peacefully and in accordance with international law. . . . But I also expressed the hope that issues should not affect the overall stability of the region, Lee said. We all benefit from a stable Asia.

Abe offers maritime help for Philippines amid China row | The Japan Times

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cirr

New CCG vessels in the makings&#65306;












Also note the horizontally placed reddish section in the 2nd pic. It probably belongs to the 20th Type 054A frigate&#12290;


----------



## EastSea

*Russia to Hand Over &#8216;Black Hole&#8217; Sub to Vietnam in November*


MOSCOW, July 29 (RIA Novosti) &#8211; The first of six Russian submarines, dubbed by the US Navy as &#8220;black holes in the ocean&#8221; because they are nearly undetectable when submerged, will be delivered to Vietnam in November, the shipbuilder said Monday.
The Varshavyanka class (Project 636M) of diesel-electric submarines have very low noise emission and can hit targets at long distances without being detected by an enemy&#8217;s anti-submarine warfare assets.

&#8220;We are expecting the signing of the acceptance act and the sub&#8217;s sailing to Vietnam in November,&#8221; the press service of Admiralty Shipyards said from St. Petersburg.
The submarine successfully completed 100-day sea trials in July while the Vietnamese crew has been in training since April this year, the shipbuilder said in a statement.
&#8220;The vessel showed excellent maneuverability and reliable work of all mechanisms during the trials,&#8221; the statement said.

Vietnam ordered a fleet of six Russian-made submarines in 2009, seen as an effort to counterbalance China&#8217;s expanding maritime influence in the region. The contract, which also stipulates the training of Vietnamese submarine crews in Russia, is reportedly worth $2 billion.
All six boats are being built at Admiralty Shipyards. They are due for delivery by 2016.
The Varshavyanka class is an improvement on the Kilo, with more advanced stealth technology and an extended combat range. The vessels displace 3,100 tons, reach speeds of 20 knots, can dive to 300 meters and carry crews of 52 people.

The submarines, which feature 533-milimeter torpedo tubes and are armed with torpedoes, mines and Kalibr 3M54 (NATO SS-N-27 Sizzler) cruise missiles, are mainly intended for anti-shipping and anti-submarine missions in relatively shallow waters.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...-hole-sub-vietnam-november.html#ixzz2ahsEZmzD

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cirr

4000-tonne CCG 3401 is nearly ready for launch&#65306;

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

_Chinese state vessels act increasingly aggressive, the modern pirates at Sea 
_

Two Vietnamese fishing vessels attacked in Hoang Sa

Last update 14:03 | 11/07/2013 0 0






_The damaged boat of Mr. Vuong_


VietNamNet Bridge &#8211; A Chinese ship attacked two fishing boats from Ly Son island district, Quang Ngai province in the waters of Hoang Sa of Vietnam, causing losses of about $30,000.

After three days leaving the port of Ly Son to the sea of Hoang Sa (Paracel Islands) to catch holothurians, at 7am on July 7, 15 fishermen on board of the fishing vessel QNg 96 787 of Mr. Vo Minh Vuong were unexpectedly attacked by sailors from a Chinese ship, No. 306, painted in white, with Chinese characters on the two broadsides.

Many people from the Chinese vessel penetrated into the Vietnamese fishing vessel and used knives to cut off 720m of gas wire into small pieces, robbed a lot of equipment, fishing tools, one ton of fish and 5,000 liters of diesel, totaling about VND400 million ($20,000).

Some Chinese men also used crowbars and hammers to smash the cabin windows abd used knives to chop down cabinet doors and the covers of the hold.

After the attack, Mr. Vuong&#8217;s boat was heavily damaged. Captain Vuong was also beaten with electric batons and fainted on board.

The same day, another fishing boat of Mr. Vai Van Cuong was also attacked and robbed by the Chinese ship No. 306 at 9am, with total losses of more than VND200 million ($10,000).

The local authorities verified the two attacks and reported to the central government.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Yukio

*China slams US resolution on South, East China Sea disputes*
Beijing August 1, 2013 

China today said it opposes a US Senate resolution on disputes in the East China Sea and South China Sea as it wrongly blamed the country, disregarding facts. 

Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson Hua Chunying said the resolution places blame on the Chinese side without regard for history and facts, "sending a wrong message." 

The US Senate approved the resolution on Monday, "reaffirming the strong support of the United States for the peaceful resolution of territorial, sovereignty and jurisdictional disputes in the Asia-Pacific maritime domains." 

The resolution puts pressure on China in regards to territorial disputes in the East China Sea and South China Sea. 

"The disputed islands in the East China Sea and in the South China Sea, are both part of China's territory and have been since ancient times. Due to historical factors, however, some of China's neighbours have disputed China's ownership of the islands," state-run Xinhua news agency quoted Hua as saying. 

Relations between China and Japan soured following the Japanese government's unilateral move to "nationalise" part of the islands in the East China Sea, last September. 

In the South China Sea, a Philippine warship entered waters off disputed island under the pretext of "protecting sovereignty" to harass Chinese fishermen who were taking shelter in a lagoon during a storm in April 2012, Hua said. 

The Philippines also recently sent fresh troops and supplies to the Ren'ai Reef, where it grounded a warship illegally in 1999. 

Despite China's repeated requests that it tow the ship, the Philippines has failed to honour its commitment to do so, citing "technical problems", Hua said. 

However, Manila accused China of "encroaching on its territory" after Chinese maritime surveillance ships patrolled waters near the Ren'ai Reef, she said. 

The Chinese side is strongly opposed to the US Senate resolution and "has lodged solemn representations to the US side," Hua said. 

"We urge relevant US senators to respect the facts and correct their mistakes so as not to make matters and the regional situation more complicated," she added.

China slams US resolution on South, East China Sea disputes | Business Standard

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cirr

CCG 2151 here I come

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## EastSea

*Hanoi backs Manila on sea strategy*


By Sara Susanne D. Fabunan | Posted on Aug. 02, 2013 at 12:02am | 1,410 views

3
THE Philippines again found itself allied with Vietnam against China after Hanoi on Thursday assured its support of Manila&#8217;s case before the Arbitral Tribunal contesting Beijing&#8217;s excessive claims in the South China Sea.

Foreign Affairs Secretary Albert del Rosario said Vietnam was still supporting Manila&#8217;s decision to bring its dispute with China before the Arbitral Tribunal after his 7th bilateral meeting with Vietnamese Foreign Minister Pham Binh Minh.

&#8220;They are very supportive of that [the Philippine&#8217;s arbitration case against China],&#8221; Del Rosario said.

&#8220;We&#8217;re discussing the possibility that we may be able to cooperate closely with them in terms of the settlement of the dispute.&#8221;

Manila and Hanoi&#8217;s diplomatic relations soured somewhat after a report said Vietnam had entered into an agreement with China to explore the resources in the disputed South China Sea, which is considered rich in oil and gas.

But del Rosario said Vietnam did not enter into any agreement with China that would violate Hanoi&#8217;s laws.

He said even China had been offering to both the Philippines and Vietnam a &#8220;joint development proposal&#8221; on gas exploration, but neither Hanoi nor Manila had agreed to it.

&#8220;I think they said that China is proposing a joint development with them, but I think they have taken the same position as ourselves,&#8221; Del Rosario said.

&#8220;A joint venture is possible if it is consistent with the laws of Vietnam, and in our case with the laws of the Philippines.&#8221;

When asked if Vietnam will join the arbitration, del Rosario said &#8220;possibly.&#8221;

&#8220;That&#8217;s one option. Of course it is a possibility that we may be able to cooperate closely with them in terms of the settlement of the dispute.&#8221;

Del Rosario said that in the coming meeting of the 10-member Association of Southeast Asian Nations in Thailand in August, Hanoi and Manila had decided to convince the other Asean members, including the other claimants Malaysia and Brunei, not to settle for mere consultations with China but demand a &#8220;negotiation stage&#8221; in September.

He said once the Asean agreed to their proposals, they would bring up the matter during the Asean-China meeting in September.

The September meeting in Beijing is the first time that China has agreed to hold consultations with the Asean as a bloc in the drafting of a Code of Conduct, which is seen as a way of managing the territorial disputes in the South China Sea.

Del Rosario and Pham met on Thursday to discuss the growing maritime disputes in the South China sea and the ways of settling those.

&#8220;Vietnam has been very clear in advocating the peaceful resolution of the disputes according to international law,&#8221; he said.

The Philippines filed a case against China&#8217;s claims over the South China Area before the Arbitral Tribunal.

Beijing claims nearly all of the sea&#8212;even the waters close to the Philippines and other neighbors.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Pinoy

*Manila to move air force, navy near disputed sea*
The Associated Press
3 August 2013






MANILA, Philippines (AP)  The Philippines plans to relocate major air force and navy camps to a former U.S. naval base northwest of Manila to gain faster access to waters being contested by China in the South China Sea, according to the countrys defense chief and a confidential government report.

Defense Secretary Voltaire Gazmin said July 28 that as soon as relocation funds are available the government plans to transfer air force and naval forces and their fleets of aircraft and warships to Subic Bay, which has become a busy free port since the 1992 departure of the U.S. Navy.

Its for the protection of our West Philippine Sea, Gazmin said using the name adopted by the Philippine government for the disputed South China Sea.

Subic Bay is a natural deep harbor that can accommodate two large warships acquired recently by the Philippines from the United States, a defense treaty ally, he said, especially compared to shallower harbor at the naval fleet base at Sangley Point in Cavite province, south of Manila.

The first U.S. Coast Guard cutter was relaunched as the Philippines largest warship in 2011. President Benigno Aquino III will lead ceremonies on Aug. 6 to welcome the second ship at Subic, the Philippine navy said.

A confidential defense department document obtained by The Associated Press says Subics location will cut reaction time by fighter aircraft to contested South China Sea areas by more than three minutes compared with flying from Clark airfield, also north of Manila, where some air force planes are based.

It will provide the armed forces of the Philippines strategic location, direct and shorter access to support West Philippine Sea theater of operations, the document said.

The report said the cost of repairs and improvements for an air force base in Subic would be at least 5.1 billion pesos ($119 million). It said that compares with an estimated 11 billion pesos ($256 million) that it would cost to build a new air force base, because the vast Subic complex about 80 kilometers (50 miles) west of Manila already has a world-class runway and aviation facilities.

Relocating about 250 air force officers and men to Subic, along with increased rotational presence of foreign visiting forces would bolster business and trade at the port, the military document said.

Subics international airport has been underutilized since U.S. courier giant FedEx transferred its lucrative regional hub from Subic to China in 2009, officials said.

The Philippines plans to grant visiting U.S. forces, ships and aircraft temporary access to more of its military camps to allow for a larger number of joint military exercises than are currently staged each year.

A larger U.S. presence could be used for disaster response and serve as a deterrent to what Philippine officials say have been recent aggressive intrusions by China into its territorials waters.

The Philippines has backed Washingtons efforts to reassert its military presence in Asia as a counterweight to Chinas rise. While it has taken diplomatic steps to deal with Chinas sweeping territorial claims in the South China Sea, the Philippines has struggled to upgrade its military, one of Asias weakest.

Philippine vessels backed off from the disputed Scarborough Shoal last year after weeks of a tense standoff with Chinese surveillance ship, a move that gave China effective control over the vast fishing ground off the countrys northwest.

Many fear the territorial conflicts in the South China Sea, which also involve Brunei, Malaysia, Vietnam and Taiwan, could set off a serious conflict that could threaten Asias growing economies.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Pinoy

*Philippines says US spy planes monitoring China at sea*
Agence France-Presse






_Philippines says US Navy P-3 Orion surveillance aircraft frequently fly over disputed areas of the South China Sea. _

The Philippines said on Wednesday that US spy planes were providing crucial intelligence on Chinese military activities in disputed areas of the South China Sea.

US Navy P-3 Orion surveillance aircraft frequently fly over areas that the Philippines says are within its legal territory but where China has deployed military vessels, said Foreign Secretary Albert del Rosario.

&#8220;I think it&#8217;s of significant importance for us,&#8221; del Rosario told reporters, when asked about the value of the information gathered by the spy planes.

&#8220;We do have an interest in terms of what is going on with our exclusive economic zone, within our continental shelf, and we want to know if there are any intrusions.&#8221;

China claims nearly all of the sea, even waters close to the Philippines and other neighbours.

Analysts have long warned that China&#8217;s overlapping claims with the Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan could be a flashpoint of armed conflict.

Tensions have risen in recent years as China has adopted more aggressive diplomatic and military tactics to assert its claims to the potentially resource-rich waters.

The Philippines has repeatedly called on the United States, its former colonial master and close military ally, for help in resisting China.

While the United States insists it will not take sides in the South China Sea dispute, it has helped to upgrade the Philippines&#8217; military capabilities.

When asked if the spy plane surveillance on China may jar with the United States&#8217; insistence of neutrality in the maritime dispute, del Rosario emphasised the close US-Philippine ties.

He pointed out the allies had a mutual defence treaty, which calls on each party to help the other in times of external aggression.

He also said the United States was keen to maintain peace in the Asia-Pacific region and ensure freedom of navigation in the South China Sea.

&#8220;I think it is in that context that we believe they have a right to be there,&#8221; he said.

&#8220;It is also because we&#8217;d like them to be there, that is the bottom line.&#8221;

When asked how long the spy planes had been flying over the Philippine-claimed waters of the South China Sea, del Rosario said since at least he became foreign secretary in 2010.

He gave no further details on the timeframe but said the spy planes operated mostly, but not exclusively, during times of joint military exercises between the Philippines and the United States.

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/1293369/philippines-says-us-spy-planes-monitoring-china-sea

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

MSA&#65292;China's third pillar of maritime law enforcement  

053





154





168

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zero_wing

nice pics thanks for the intel imperialist


----------



## cirr

CCG 3401 launched on 03.08.2013 at HPS&#65306;






More in the pipeline&#12290;

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

http : // killerapps foreignpolicy com / posts/2013/07/29/us_deploying_jets_around_asia_to_keep_china_surrou nded

The United States Air Force will dramatically expand its military presence across the Pacific this year, sending jets to Thailand, India, Singapore, and Australia, according to the service's top general in the region.

For a major chunk of America's military community, the so-called "pivot to Asia" might seem like nothing more than an empty catchphrase, especially with the Middle East once again in flames. But for the Air Force at least, the shift is very real. And the idea behind its pivot is simple: ring China with U.S. and allied forces, just like the West did to the Soviet Union, back in the Cold War.

U.S. military officials constantly say they aren't trying to contain China; they're working with the Chinese and other Pacific nations to "maintain stability" in the region. Still, a ring of bases looks an awful lot like something we've seen before.

In Australia, for example, the Air Force will dispatch "fighters, tankers, and at some point in the future, maybe bombers on a rotational basis," said Gen. Herbert "Hawk" Carlisle, chief of U.S. Air Force operations in the Pacific, during a breakfast with reporters in Washington on July 29. The jets will likely start their Australian presence sometime in the next year at the Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF) base at Darwin (already crowded with Marines), before moving to nearby RAAF Base Tindal, according to the four-star general.

This is just the start of the Air Force's plan to expand its presence in Asia, according to Carlisle. In addition to the Australian deployments, the Air Force will be sending jets to Changi East air base in Singapore, Korat air base in Thailand, a site in India, and possibly bases at Kubi Point and Puerto Princesa in the Philippines and airfields in Indonesia and Malaysia.

All of this helps the United States develop a network of bases in the region and build ties to allies that operate American equipment and know how to work with the U.S. military.

"One of the main tenets of our strategy is to expand engagement and interoperability and integration &#8230; with our friends' and partners' militaries," said Carlisle.

"The only defense budgets in the world that are climbing are in Asia," said the general. This means the United States is working to grow its network of American-armed Pacific allies that can, in effect, bolster the U.S. presence there.

"We exercise together; we train together; we build their capability; and we also get familiar with them and the environment," said Carlisle, who promised such collaboration "will pay tremendous dividends."

Carlisle insists that the service isn't planning on building large amounts of infrastructure across Southeast Asia to support permanent U.S. garrisons. Instead, it will have a steady stream of U.S. and northern Pacific-based units rotating into existing airfields in the region.

"We're not gonna build any more bases in the Pacific" to support the U.S. Air Force's increased presence there, said Carlisle.

The Air Force is taking a page from its Cold War playbook designed to keep the Soviets from invading Europe and will constantly deploy units based in the United States and the northern Pacific to a string of airfields in Southeast Asia.

"Back in the late great days of the Cold War, we had a thing called Checkered Flag: We rotated almost every CONUS [Continental United States] unit to Europe," said Carlisle, "Every two years, every unit would go and work out of a collateral operating base in Europe. We're turning to that in the Pacific."

Right now, the U.S. Air Force has nine main major bases scattered throughout the Pacific, from Alaska and Hawaii to Guam, Japan, and Korea. While these sites will see some rotational aircraft pass through, they're already pretty crowded with aircraft that are permanently based in those locations. This means the air service will start regularly sending aircraft to countries it hasn't had a presence in since the Cold War.

"In a lot of ways we'll move increasingly south and east with our rotational presence," said Carlisle. "The most capable platforms will be rotated into the Pacific."

This means the Air Force will sent large numbers of F-22 Raptors, F-35 Joint Strike Fighters, and B-2 stealth bombers to the region, according to Carlisle (who pointed out that the first permanent overseas base for the F-35 will be in the Pacific).

Remember, the Navy and Marines have already started their pivot to Asia, with the Navy basing littoral combat ships in Singapore and the Marines sending troops on their aforementioned deployments to Australia. Meanwhile, the Marine Corps is also refurbishing old World War II airfields on Pacific Islands. These bare-bones strips, like the one on Tinian, would be used by American forces in case their main bases are targeted by Chinese ballistic missiles.

U.S. officials keep saying that these deployments to the Pacific will be just for a short while. But these rotating troops will still need support staff waiting for them at all of these sites -- which means America's expansion in the Pacific be anything but temporary.

Is this the real "String of Pearl" ?

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...asia-keep-china-surrounded.html#ixzz2axwAcpz3

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## beijingwalker

*China says in no hurry to sign South China Sea accord*
2 hours ago 


> BEIJING (Reuters) - China is in no rush to sign a proposed agreement on maritime rules with Southeast Asia governing behavior in the disputed South China Sea,* and countries should not have unrealistic expectations*, the Chinese foreign minister said on Monday.
> 
> After years of resisting efforts by the 10-member Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) to start talks on the proposed Code of Conduct, China said it would host talks between senior officials in September.
> 
> Washington has not taken sides, but Secretary of State John Kerry reiterated in Brunei last month the U.S. strategic interest in freedom of navigation through the busy sea and desire to see a Code of Conduct signed quickly.
> 
> Speaking in the Vietnamese capital Hanoi, Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi said a lot more work on the Code of Conduct (CoC) was needed.
> 
> "China believes that there should be no rush. Certain countries are hoping that the CoC can be agreed on overnight. These countries are having unrealistic expectations," China's official Xinhua news agency paraphrased Wang as saying.
> 
> "...The CoC concerns the interests of various parties and its formulation demands a heavy load of coordination work," he added. "No individual countries should impose their will on others."
> 
> Previous efforts to discuss the Code of Conduct had failed "due to disturbances from certain parties", Wang said, without naming any countries.
> 
> "Instead of making disturbances, parties should make efforts that are conducive to the process so as to create the necessary conditions and atmosphere," said Wang.
> 
> Friction over the South China Sea, one of the world's most important waterways, has surged as China uses its growing naval might to more forcefully assert its vast claims over the oil- and gas-rich sea, raising fears of a military clash.
> 
> Four ASEAN nations, including Vietnam and the Philippines, have overlapping claims with China.
> 
> China and the Philippines accuse each other of violating the Declaration of Conduct, a non-binding confidence-building agreement on maritime conduct signed by China and ASEAN in 2002.
> 
> Such differences could be another obstacle to agreeing on a more comprehensive pact as China has stressed that countries must first show good faith by abiding by the DoC.
> 
> Critics say China is intent on cementing its claims over the sea through its superior and growing naval might, and has little interest in rushing to agree to a code of conduct.
> 
> Divisions among ASEAN over the maritime dispute burst into the open a year ago when a summit chaired by Chinese ally Cambodia failed to issue a closing communique for the first time in the group's 45-year history.
> 
> (Reporting by Ben Blanchard; Editing by Nick Macfie)



http://news.**********/china-says-no-hurry-sign-south-china-sea-100237920.html

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

*Vietnam, Philippines boost marine cooperation*

VietNamNet Bridge &#8211; Senior officials from the Philippines and Vietnam have underscored sea and ocean cooperation as the cornerstone of the two countries&#8217; relations.





Foreign Minister Pham Binh Minh and his Philippine counterpart Albert F. Del Rosario. (Photo: AFP)


The point was made at the 7th session of the Vietnam-Philippines Bilateral Cooperation Committee, which was co-chaired by Foreign Minister Pham Binh Minh and his counterpart Albert F. Del Rosario in Manila, the Philippines, on July 31-August 1.
The officials voiced their pleasure at the establishment of a sea and ocean joint committee at the foreign deputy ministerial level and a group of legal experts on marine issues, which serve as effective bilateral mechanisms to boost the two countries&#8217; dialogues and collaboration in sea-related issues.
They discussed ways to effectively implement cooperation agreements to address oil spills, along with sea search and rescue.
Discussing matters on the East Sea, the two sides upheld the principles of ASEAN on ensuring peace, stability, security, maritime safety and freedom, settling disputes by peaceful means in compliance with international law, especially the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, carrying out the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the East Sea (DOC) and ASEAN&#8217;s Declaration on Six-point Principles on the East Sea, and advancing towards the early building of a Code of Conduct in the East Sea (COC).
Turning to security-defence cooperation, the two FMs agreed to continue implementing the Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) on enhancing information exchanges between their two naval forces and the agreement to establish a hotline between Vietnamese maritime police and Filipino coastguards and join efforts to handle non-conventional security challenges.
They highly valued the robust bilateral trade, which recorded nearly 3 billion USD last year, and is expected to further increase in the coming time.
They also welcomed the signed agreement on rice supply for 2014-2016 and consented to step up negotiations for completing the Protocol on Agricultural Cooperation and successfully implement the agreement on Fishery Cooperation focusing on aquatic research and farming.
The settlement of cases involved the two countries&#8217; fishermen and ships violating each other&#8217;s waters areas will be handled on the basis of humanitarian spirit and bilateral friendship, the officials said.
They came up with an agreement to boost bilateral cooperation in other fields -- energy security, culture, education-training, science-technology, environment, social welfare and development.
The officials agreed to maintain exchanges between senior officials and the people in order to enhance mutual trust and understanding.
FM Minh visited the Philippines on July 31-August 1, at the invitation of Albert F. Del Rosario.
The next event will be hosted by Vietnam in 2015.
VNA/VNS/VOV
Tags:Vietnam, Philippines, marine cooperat


----------



## StarCraft_ZT

Visiting Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi (left) shakes hands with Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung in Hanoi on Monday. Photo: AFP







Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi (left) shakes hands with his Vietnamese counterpart Pham Binh Minh in Hanoi, Vietnam, on Sunday. Photo: Xinhua

Beijing tells Asean to be realistic in hopes for South China Sea code

All parties with territorial disputes over the South China Sea should have "realistic expectations" and take "a gradual approach" to a proposed code of conduct aimed at defusing maritime tensions in the region, China's foreign minister said in Hanoi yesterday.

Wang Yi , who wraps up a six-day visit to four South East Asian countries today, said Beijing was open to dialogue on a Code of Conduct for the South China Sea (CoC), but warned that patience would be needed.

"Some countries are looking for a quick fix [to the disputes] and are hoping to thrash out a code in a day; this approach is neither realistic nor serious," Xinhua quoted Wang as saying yesterday.

The CoC involved multiple national interests and as such required a "delicate and complex" negotiating process, Wang added.

Analysts say Wang was referring to the Philippines's recent bid to take the maritime row to the United Nations in hope of solving it promptly.

One analyst believed Beijing did not want Manila to go to the UN. "It would attract too much attention. China would prefer to bind South China Sea claimants into a bureaucratic process that it can control, exploiting Asean disunity," said Alex Neill, a Shangri-la dialogue senior fellow at the International Institute of Strategic Studies.

Previous efforts to discuss the CoC failed because of "disturbances" from irrelevant parties, Wang said, in a thinly veiled message to the US, a long-term ally with the Philippines.

"Instead of making disturbances, parties should make efforts that are conducive to the process so as to create the necessary conditions and atmosphere," Wang said.

Wang stressed that any progress on the new framework would be dependent on countries following a confidence-building "declaration of conduct" agreed upon in 2002, which Beijing accuses Manila of violating.

The Philippines and Vietnam have led criticism of what they consider increasingly assertive claims by China in the South China Sea.

Top diplomats from both countries agreed last week in Manila to work closely to deal with their territorial disputes with Beijing. Vietnamese Foreign Minister Pham Binh Minh also said that Hanoi supported Manila's move to take the issue of South China Sea disputes to the International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea.

"Wang is trying to head off any unity among Asean [the Association of Southeast Asian Nations] members against China ahead of the next Asean summit [in October]," Neill said.

While China has been eager to smooth tensions with Vietnam, it has shunned Manila. In May, Wang visited Indonesia, Thailand, Singapore and Brunei in his first official visits since the former ambassador to Japan was appointed foreign minister. The just-concluded trip covers Vietnam, Malaysia, Thailand and Laos. Last month, Beijing blasted Manila for turning to the UN to seek arbitration over their maritime disputes, and accused the country of provoking tensions.

"I could see why Wang would've wanted to refer to Manila [in his comments]," said Kerry Brown, professor of political science at the University of Sydney.

"China would have lots of reasons to utterly resist the UN being dragged in, as they would argue this is an internal issue, and for the Philippines to try to use this as leverage would seem to them to be theatrical posturing,"

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## StarCraft_ZT

Vietnam prioritises fostering ties with China

General Secretary of the Communist Party of Vietnam Nguyen Phu Trong has stated that fostering the friendly neighbourliness and comprehensive strategic cooperative partnership with China is Vietnam&#8217;s consistent guideline and also a top priority in its external policy. 

While receiving Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi in Hanoi on August 5, the Party leader expressed his hope that the two countries will do their best to fully implement agreements reached by their high-ranking leaders, and strengthen practical and effective cooperation in all areas. 

The two countries should settle all existing problems satisfactorily through peaceful negotiations in accordance with international law and their signed relevant documents in order to make their friendship stable and healthy, for the benefit of the two peoples, as well as for peace, stability, development and prosperity in the region and the world. 

For his part, Wang informed the host of the outcomes of the talks with his Vietnamese counterpart Pham Binh Minh, affirming the Chinese Party and Government attach importance to the relationship with Vietnam. 

He said his country wants together with Vietnam to strengthen cooperation in all fields, thus contributing to deepening the two countries&#8217; comprehensive strategic cooperative partnership.-VNA

(VOV) - Vietnam gives top priority to boosting the friendship, neighbourliness and comprehensive strategic cooperation partnership with China.

Party leader Nguyen Phu Trong reiterated Vietnam&#8217;s consistent policy while receiving Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi in Hanoi on August 5.

He welcomed Wang&#8217;s visit and noted that bilateral relations have developed strongly in recent times through high-level reciprocal visits. He conveyed his best wishes to General Secretary-President Xi Jinping and other senior Chinese leaders.

Trong expressed his hope that both countries should make a greater effort to concretise and realise agreements reached by their top leaders to effectively strengthen cooperation in all areas.

He urged both sides to reasonably address pending issues through peaceful negotiations in line with international law and related agreements they have signed, in order to develop their bilateral relationship in a stable, healthy manner, for mutual interests and for peace, stability and prosperous development in the region and the world.

Wang briefed Trong on the results of his talks with Vietnamese Foreign Minister Pham Binh Minh, and confirmed that the Party, State and government of China attach great importance to relations with Vietnam.

China wants to expand cooperation in all areas with Vietnam to deepen the comprehensive strategic cooperation partnership between the two countries, he said. 

Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi is paying an official visit to Vietnam from August 3-6 at the invitation of his Vietnamese counterpart Pham Binh Minh.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ManilaBoy45

Philippines Vows Intensified Sea Patrols

Talks Underway for 3rd Hamilton Class| Fox News

By Jason Gutierrez
Published August 06, 2013

SUBIC BAY, Philippines (AFP)  The Philippines promised intensified sea patrols on Tuesday as it welcomed the arrival of a second warship from the United States to bolster its defences during a maritime dispute with China.President Benigno Aquino led the navy in welcoming the BRP Ramon Alcaraz, a Hamilton-class cutter that had been decommissioned by the US coast guard and acquired by Manila.The ship berthed at Subic, a former American naval base on the west coast of the main island of Luzon facing the South China Sea where the Philippines has festering territorial disputes with China."Now that BRP Alcaraz has arrived, we will surely intensify our patrols in the Philippines' exclusive economic zone," Aquino said in a speech as the US envoy to Manila and other officials cheered."It will also boost our capability to counter any threat," he said.Aquino made no direct reference to China, which has claims in the South China Sea overlapping those of the Philippines and other nations.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

cirr said:


> MSA&#65292;China's third pillar of maritime law enforcement
> 168


can you tell me how many ships are destined for the East Sea and is any of them wants to enter our EEZ?


----------



## Viet

*Agreement between the Government of the Socialist Republic of Viet Nam and the Government of the Republic of Indonesia concerning the delimitation of the continental shelf boundary
*

(23/06/2003)








The Government of the Socialist Republic of Viet Nam and the Government of the Republic of Indonesia (hereinafter referred to as the &#8220;Contracting Parties&#8221

TAKING INTO ACCOUNT the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea signed at Montego Bay on 10 December 1982 to which the Socialist Republic of Viet Nam and the Republic of Indonesia are State Parties;
DESIRING to strengthen and further develop the friendly relations existing between the two countries;
DESIRING to establish the boundary of the continental shelves between Viet Nam and Indonesia;
HAVE AGREED as follows:

Article 1
(1) The boundary between the Vietnamese and the Indonesian continental shelves is defined by the straight lines connecting the following points specified by coordinates and in the sequence given below:

Point
Latitude
Longitude
20
06°05&#8217;48&#8221; N
105°49&#8217;12&#8221; E
H
06°15&#8217;00&#8221; N
106°12&#8217;00&#8221; E
H1
06°15&#8217;00&#8221; N
106°19&#8217;01&#8221; E
A4
06°20&#8217;59.88&#8221; N
106°39&#8217;37.67&#8221; E
X1
06°50&#8217;15&#8221; N
109°17&#8217;13&#8221; E

The boundary line shall thence run straight to the point at the coordinate of latitude 06° 18&#8217; 12&#8221; N, Longitude 109° 38&#8217; 36&#8221; E (Point 25).
(2) The straight lines and coordinates of the points specified in Paragraph (1) of this Article are geodetic lines and geographical coordinates computed on the World Geodetic System 1984 Datum (WGS84) and shown on the British Admiralty Chart No.3482, on 1:1,500.000 scale published in 1997, which is attached as an Annex to this Agreement. The boundary shown on the Chart attached to this Agreement is for the purpose of illustration only.
(3) The actual location on the sea of the points and the straight lines referred to in Paragraph (1) of this Article shall be determined by methods to be mutually agreed upon by the competent authorities of the Contracting Parties.
(4) For the purpose of Paragraph (3) of this Article, the competent authority of the Socialist Republic of Viet Nam shall be the Department of Survey and Mapping of the Ministry of Natural Resources and Environment and the competent authority of the Republic of Indonesia shall be the Hydro-Oceanographic Agency of the Indonesia Navy.

Article 2
This Agreement shall not in any way affect any future agreement which may be entered into between the Contracting Parties relating to delimitation of the exclusive economic zone boundary.

Article 3
The Contracting Parties shall consult with each other with a view to coordinating their policies in accordance with the international law on the protection of the marine environment.

Article 4
If any single geological petroleum or natural gas structure, or if any other mineral deposit beneath the seabed, extends across the boundary line referred to in Paragraph (1) of Article 1, the Contracting Parties shall inform each other of all information concerned and shall seek to reach agreement as to the manner in which the structure or deposit shall be most effectively exploited and on the equitable sharing of the benefits arising from such exploitation.

Article 5
Any dispute between the Contracting Parties arising out of the interpretation or implementation of this Agreement shall be settled peacefully by consultation or negotiation.

Article 6
(1) This Agreement shall be ratified in accordance with the constitutional requirements of the Contracting Parties.
(2) This Agreement shall enter into force on the date of the exchange of the instruments of ratification.
IN WITNEES WHEREOF the undersigned, being duly authorized thereto by their respective Governments, have signed this Agreement.

DONE at Ha noi, this 26th day of June two thousand and three in duplicate in the Indonesian, Vietnamese and English languages, all texts being equally authentic. In case of any divergence of the interpretation of this Agreement, the English text shall prevail.

FOR THE GOVERNMENT
OF THE SOCIALIST REPUBLIC
OF VIET NAM

(signed)

Nguyen Dy Nien
Foreign Minister

FOR THE GOVERNMENT
OF THE REPUBLIC
OF INDONESIA

(signed)

N. Hassan Wirajuda
Foreign Minister


Agreement between the Government of the Socialist Republic of Viet Nam and the Government of the Republic of Indonesia concerning the delimitation of the continental shelf boundary

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cirr

Blooming everywhere&#65306;

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

Hamilton Class Cutter Philippines


----------



## cirr

Let's build more&#65306;






CCG 3401 and 3402&#65292;CMS xxxx&#12290;&#12290;&#12290;the lot

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

*Beijing tells Asean to be "realistic" in hopes for South China Sea code of conduct*

Foreign Minister Wang Yi says China is open to dialogue on proposed code of conduct, but parties should keep their expectations in check
Tuesday, 06 August, 2013, 8:41am





Visiting Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi (left) shakes hands with Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung in Hanoi on Monday. Photo: AFP

*All parties with territorial disputes over the South China Sea should have "realistic expectations" and take "a gradual approach" to a proposed code of conduct aimed at defusing maritime tensions in the region, China's foreign minister said in Hanoi yesterday.*

Wang Yi , who wraps up a six-day visit to four South East Asian countries today, said Beijing was open to dialogue on a Code of Conduct for the South China Sea (CoC), but warned that patience would be needed.

*"Some countries are looking for a quick fix [to the disputes] and are hoping to thrash out a code in a day; this approach is neither realistic nor serious," Xinhua quoted Wang as saying yesterday.*

The CoC involved multiple national interests and as such required a "delicate and complex" negotiating process, Wang added.

Analysts say Wang was referring to the Philippines's recent bid to take the maritime row to the United Nations in hope of solving it promptly.

*One analyst believed Beijing did not want Manila to go to the UN. "It would attract too much attention. China would prefer to bind South China Sea claimants into a bureaucratic process that it can control, exploiting Asean disunity," said Alex Neill, a Shangri-la dialogue senior fellow at the International Institute of Strategic Studies.*

Previous efforts to discuss the CoC failed because of "disturbances" from irrelevant parties, Wang said, in a thinly veiled message to the US, a long-term ally with the Philippines.

"Instead of making disturbances, parties should make efforts that are conducive to the process so as to create the necessary conditions and atmosphere," Wang said.

Wang stressed that any progress on the new framework would be dependent on countries following a confidence-building "declaration of conduct" agreed upon in 2002, which Beijing accuses Manila of violating.

The Philippines and Vietnam have led criticism of what they consider increasingly assertive claims by China in the South China Sea.

Top diplomats from both countries agreed last week in Manila to work closely to deal with their territorial disputes with Beijing. Vietnamese Foreign Minister Pham Binh Minh also said that Hanoi supported Manila's move to take the issue of South China Sea disputes to the International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea.

*"Wang is trying to head off any unity among Asean [the Association of Southeast Asian Nations] members against China ahead of the next Asean summit [in October]," Neill said.*

*While China has been eager to smooth tensions with Vietnam, it has shunned Manila*. In May, Wang visited Indonesia, Thailand, Singapore and Brunei in his first official visits since the former ambassador to Japan was appointed foreign minister. The just-concluded trip covers Vietnam, Malaysia, Thailand and Laos. Last month, Beijing blasted Manila for turning to the UN to seek arbitration over their maritime disputes, and accused the country of provoking tensions.

"I could see why Wang would've wanted to refer to Manila [in his comments]," said Kerry Brown, professor of political science at the University of Sydney.

*"China would have lots of reasons to utterly resist the UN being dragged in, as they would argue this is an internal issue, and for the Philippines to try to use this as leverage would seem to them to be theatrical posturing,"*

Beijing tells Asean to be realistic in hopes for South China Sea code of conduct | South China Morning Post

Always trust the Chinese to find a way around something.


----------



## Pinoy

*PHL ignores China&#8217;s three-way proposal to address sea disputes*
August 6, 2013






The Philippines on Tuesday ignored China&#8217;s three-way proposal to address the long-running disputes in the South China Sea, saying the problem lies in Beijing&#8217;s massive claim over the resource-rich waters.

Last week, Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi said the territorial rifts can be resolved through consultation and negotiation, the implementation of the non-binding Code of Conduct in the South China Sea and joint exploration.

But at a news briefing, Foreign Affairs spokesperson Raul Hernandez said: *&#8220;Can we once again re-direct China to the core issue which is its claim of indisputable sovereignty over nearly all of the South China Sea under its nine-dash line position*.&#8221;  

Manila&#8217;s statement is the latest manifestation of longstanding territorial feud between China and the Philippines over South China Sea territories that have reignited in recent years by tense confrontations between Chinese and Philippine vessels in two disputed shoals &#8211; Panatag (Scarborough) and Ayungin (Second Thomas Reef) &#8211; off Manila&#8217;s western coasts.

China&#8217;s massive claim to the South China Sea and its persistent incursions in Philippine waters have prompted Manila to seek legal recourse through international arbitration under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea or UNCLOS. The Philippines refers to portions of the South China Sea as West Philippine Sea.

The ill-equipped Philippine military is no match to China&#8217;s, but the Philippines believes that justice can be dispensed equally through international law.

China refused to join the arbitration, saying the basis of Manila&#8217;s arguments are groundless.

*&#8220;The Philippines has asserted before the arbitral tribunal to which China has been invited but has refused to participate that the nine-dash line claim is expansive, excessive and in gross violation of international law, specifically the UNCLOS. This is the core issue and it behooves China to address it,&#8221;* Hernandez said.

Competing claims to the South China Sea, a strategic waterway believed to be sitting atop huge gas and oil deposits, by the Philippines, China, Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan have sparked occasional violence and now regarded as a potential regional flashpoint for armed conflict

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> *Beijing tells Asean to be "realistic" in hopes for South China Sea code of conduct*
> ...
> Always trust the Chinese to find a way around something.


we will see what steps China makes and if we can trust them.


----------



## cirr

CCG 2112&#65306;


----------



## Rechoice



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Beast

[video]http://video.sina.com.cn/p/news/c/v/2013-08-08/121762761183.html[/video]

Video of the actual footage of PCG shooting ROC fishing boat...





PCG start shooting at unarmed ROC fishing boat.





PCG crew laughing after shooting and killing of the ROC unarmed fishing boat crew onboard.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## EastSea

Chinese aggressors fired on Vietnam fishermen boats.






M

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Fsjal

Rechoice said:


> Hamilton Class Cutter Philippines



Fanboi's wet dream only



Beast said:


> [video]http://video.sina.com.cn/p/news/c/v/2013-08-08/121762761183.html[/video]
> 
> Video of the actual footage of PCG shooting ROC fishing boat...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PCG start shooting at unarmed ROC fishing boat.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PCG crew laughing after shooting and killing of the ROC unarmed fishing boat crew onboard.



Hi, sorry if I was not here for a while.

It is such a horrible thing to see. Those coast guards deserve execution


----------



## cirr

CCG 1115






CCG 1123

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## EastSea

*Philippines Seek Talks on Expanding U.S. Access to its Military Bases*


VOA News
August 08, 2013

Philippine officials say the nation is seeking fresh talks with the United States on expanding U.S. access to its military bases, as tensions with China rise over competing territorial claims in the South China Sea.

In a joint letter to Philippine lawmakers, Foreign Secretary Albert del Rosario and Defense Secretary Voltaire Gazmin said the talks will focus on "a possible framework agreement" for "an increased [U.S.] rotational presence." 

U.S. officials by late Thursday had not confirmed any talks, but said a framework agreement would increase opportunities for joint military training and exercises that could include other regional partners.

Manila's push to bolster its defenses comes as China presses maritime claims to most of the mineral and energy-rich South China Sea. For their part, the Philippines, Vietnam, Taiwan, Malaysia and Brunei are seeking to defend their sea borders against what those governments see as Chinese naval and fishing intrusions.

Earlier this week, the Philippines took formal possession of a refurbished former U.S. Coast Guard cutter obtained under a bilateral military alliance with Washington. The vessel joins another former U.S. cutter recommissioned by the Philippines in 2011.

Vietnam has also welcomed closer military ties with the United States, and has allowed U.S. Navy supply ships to dock for repairs and maintenance in recent years.

Rumors swirled this week in official Vietnamese media that the United States was considering suspending a ban on the export of lethal weapons to the Hanoi government. 

However, there has been no official confirmation of those deliberations. Analysts have cautioned against expecting any such concessions from Washington without evidence of significant improvement in Vietnam's human rights record.
Philippines Seek Talks on Expanding U.S. Access to its Military Bases

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## HongWu

EastSea said:


> Chinese aggressors fired on Vietnam fishermen boats.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M


Teach them to stay away from the South China Sea!


----------



## Rechoice

HongWu said:


> Teach them to stay away from the South China Sea!



Hoang Sa is our Islands, Chinese aggressors occupied with force illegally.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Pinoy

Fsjal said:


> Fanboi's wet dream only
> 
> 
> 
> Hi, sorry if I was not here for a while.
> 
> It is such a horrible thing to see. Those coast guards deserve execution


The video was edited! I saw the unedited one and I didn't see anything wrong. Laughing is a big deal? The mere fact that they have entered to our water and the coast guard did a warning shot, for me, am actually soooo HAPPY with a big smile killing Taiwanese thieves


----------



## Pinoy

*ASEAN vows unity on South China Sea - Thai official*
August 15, 2013

BANGKOK - Southeast Asian nations on Wednesday vowed unity in pressing China to accept a binding code of conduct for handling disputes in the South China Sea, the Thai foreign ministry said.

Competing claims to the sea have for decades stirred tension in the region and the waterway, which is believed to sit atop vast deposits of oil and natural gas, has long been seen as one of Asia's potential military flashpoints.

Foreign ministers from the 10-member Association of Southeast Asian Nations agreed "to speak in one voice" while seeking an "early conclusion of a code of conduct", a foreign ministry spokesman told AFP, without giving a timeframe.

The ministers, who held a two-day informal meeting in Thailand's Hua Hin resort town, will meet Chinese officials in Beijing at the end of the month.

*"ASEAN will have to speak with one voice and be unified. This does not mean speaking against anyone... ASEAN is united so it's easy to discuss and talk with it,"* the spokesman added.

*"The code of conduct should have the objective of enhancing confidence between ASEAN and China... and preventing any untoward incidents from taking place in the South China Sea."
*
ASEAN has been trying for more than a decade to secure agreement from China on a legally binding code of conduct.

China claims nearly all of the sea, even waters approaching the coasts of neighboring countries. It has resisted agreeing to the code, wary of giving any concessions that may weaken its claim.

A regional security forum in June saw ASEAN bridge internal divisions over the code.

Last year Cambodia, a staunch ally of China and ASEAN's chair at the time, had refused to endorse a Philippine push for a tougher line with Beijing on the issue.

On Wednesday Cambodia's deputy prime minister agreed to the unified ASEAN position on the code, the Thai spokesman said after the two-day discussions ended.

ASEAN members the Philippines, Vietnam, Brunei and Malaysia, as well as Taiwan, also claim parts of the sea.

China has refused to upgrade a 2002 "declaration of conduct" into a legally binding code, instead preferring to negotiate individually with each country.

The Philippines and Vietnam have in recent years accused it of increasingly aggressive actions to exert claims to the sea.

Chinese government vessels seized the Scarborough Shoal, a South China Sea outcrop just 230 kilometers (140 miles) east of the main Philippine island of Luzon, last year. &#8212; Agence France-Presse

ASEAN vows unity on South China Sea - Thai official | News | GMA News Online

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## p3avi8tor69

Pinoy said:


> The video was edited! I saw the unedited one and I didn't see anything wrong. Laughing is a big deal? The mere fact that they have entered to our water and the coast guard did a warning shot, for me, am actually soooo HAPPY with a big smile killing Taiwanese thieves




Then you have no moral or ethical compass. Shooting at a boat that was not a threat to your safety constitutes murder. Even your government is charging your unprofessional and psychotic coast guard with murder.



EastSea said:


> *Philippines Seek Talks on Expanding U.S. Access to its Military Bases*
> 
> 
> VOA News
> August 08, 2013
> 
> Philippine officials say the nation is seeking fresh talks with the United States on expanding U.S. access to its military bases, as tensions with China rise over competing territorial claims in the South China Sea.
> 
> In a joint letter to Philippine lawmakers, Foreign Secretary Albert del Rosario and Defense Secretary Voltaire Gazmin said the talks will focus on "a possible framework agreement" for "an increased [U.S.] rotational presence."
> 
> U.S. officials by late Thursday had not confirmed any talks, but said a framework agreement would increase opportunities for joint military training and exercises that could include other regional partners.
> 
> Manila's push to bolster its defenses comes as China presses maritime claims to most of the mineral and energy-rich South China Sea. For their part, the Philippines, Vietnam, Taiwan, Malaysia and Brunei are seeking to defend their sea borders against what those governments see as Chinese naval and fishing intrusions.
> 
> Earlier this week, the Philippines took formal possession of a refurbished former U.S. Coast Guard cutter obtained under a bilateral military alliance with Washington. The vessel joins another former U.S. cutter recommissioned by the Philippines in 2011.
> 
> Vietnam has also welcomed closer military ties with the United States, and has allowed U.S. Navy supply ships to dock for repairs and maintenance in recent years.
> 
> Rumors swirled this week in official Vietnamese media that the United States was considering suspending a ban on the export of lethal weapons to the Hanoi government.
> 
> However, there has been no official confirmation of those deliberations. Analysts have cautioned against expecting any such concessions from Washington without evidence of significant improvement in Vietnam's human rights record.
> Philippines Seek Talks on Expanding U.S. Access to its Military Bases



Fantastic, we used to pay the Pinoys rent for the 2 bases and now we are getting them rent free. A big thanks for the not so bright Pinoys, we get bases for free.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zero_wing

p3avi8tor69 said:


> Then you have no moral or ethical compass. Shooting at a boat that was not a threat to your safety constitutes murder. Even your government is charging your unprofessional and psychotic coast guard with murder.
> 
> 
> 
> Fantastic, we used to pay the Pinoys rent for the 2 bases and now we are getting them rent free. A big thanks for the not so bright Pinoys, we get bases for free.



Wow do you know the deference? typical imperialist just typical use your brain for once your comments just show what type of person you are


----------



## Fsjal

Zero_wing said:


> Wow do you know the *deference*? typical imperialist just typical use your brain for once your comments just show what type of person you are


Check your spelling mate. Also, those imperialists are responsible for your nation's defense, the ones who trained your soldiers.


----------



## Zero_wing

Fsjal said:


> Check your spelling mate. Also, those imperialists are responsible for your nation's defense, the ones who trained your soldiers.



Wow come on dude really how is the chinese responsible for my country defense? people can make mistake so your filipino now? dude admitted your condescending d! with bad case on stupidity and minor of lying syndrome really dude?


----------



## Fsjal

Zero_wing said:


> Wow come on dude really how is the chinese responsible for my country defense? people can make mistake so your filipino now? dude admitted your condescending d! with bad case on stupidity and minor of lying syndrome really dude?


I was talking about the American army, not the Chinese.


----------



## Zero_wing

Sure sure his real American


----------



## cirr

*CMS 3105*






ready for launch shortly&#12290;

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

&#8220;Xiangyanghong 10&#8221;&#65292;a research ship for scientific studies and resource explorations in the SCS&#65306;

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

*Vietnam Marine police receives three modern patrol ships*


Updated : 8/26/2013 2:04:47 PM
Voice of Vietnam






(VOV) - Three more well-equipped ships were handed over to the Vietnam Marine Police to increase their patrol capacity in the countrys territorial waters.

They are able to resist bad weather at sea and transfer data and images to the Vietnam Marine Polices Information Centre for processing through satellite systems.

The ships will be used for sea patrols to safeguard national sovereignty, protect natural resources, prevent environmental pollution, and deal with violations against sea laws.

They will be used for joint international patrols to strengthen cooperation and maintain safety, order, peace and stability at sea.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## hurt

Viet said:


> *Vietnam Marine police receives three modern patrol ships*
> 
> 
> Updated : 8/26/2013 2:04:47 PM
> Voice of Vietnam
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (VOV) - Three more well-equipped ships were handed over to the Vietnam Marine Police to increase their patrol capacity in the country&#8217;s territorial waters.
> 
> They are able to resist bad weather at sea and transfer data and images to the Vietnam Marine Police&#8217;s Information Centre for processing through satellite systems.
> 
> The ships will be used for sea patrols to safeguard national sovereignty, protect natural resources, prevent environmental pollution, and deal with violations against sea laws.
> 
> They will be used for joint international patrols to strengthen cooperation and maintain safety, order, peace and stability at sea.



Three *more well-equipped *ships

CSB-8003 : korea coast guard's HAN-RIVER class 1003
*Commissioned in 1983*
Displacement:	1,000 tonnes


CSB-2015,CSB-2016:korea coast guard's Haeuri(type B) class 
267
*Commissioned in 1981*
271
*Commissioned in 1982*
Displacement:	280 tonnes

As patrol vessel for coast gurard ,they are too old,especially it made by korea before 1985&#12290;

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

hurt said:


> Three *more well-equipped *ships
> 
> As patrol vessel for coast gurard ,they are too old,especially it made by korea before 1985&#12290;


pay more attentions to the cannons


----------



## hurt

Viet said:


> pay more attentions to the cannons



cannons!

Russian 25MM *2M-3* :*Designed in 1947 ,In Service from 1953*
Stop product in 1984.

Weapon






*product by china are called Type 61,all replace by Type 61-1 from 1972,now only old Type 037 (replace by type 056 soon)and type 62 use it.*





*well-equipped*

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Soryu

hurt said:


> cannons!
> 
> *well-equipped*


It's enough for Vietnamese maritime police to hunting down many coward dogs in SCS (and even in here)

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## BoXilai

hurt said:


> cannons!
> 
> Russian 25MM *2M-3* :*Designed in 1947 ,In Service from 1953*
> Stop product in 1984.
> 
> Weapon
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *product by china are called Type 61,all replace by Type 61-1 from 1972,now only old Type 037 (replace by type 056 soon)and type 62 use it.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *well-equipped*



Your eyes may be too small.


----------



## hurt

Soryu said:


> It's enough for Vietnamese maritime police to hunting down many coward dogs in SCS (and even in here)



Yes&#65292;2M-3 is enough to hurting lots of coward dogs in SCS like we done in Johnson South Reef Skirmish and Battle of the Paracel Islands.
hundreds coward dogs
2M-3 biggest victories!

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## NiceGuy

hurt said:


> Yes&#65292;2M-3 is enough to hurting lots of coward dogs in SCS like we done in Johnson South Reef Skirmish and Battle of the Paracel Islands.
> hundreds coward dogs
> 2M-3 biggest victories!


That time, we were busy to kill and kick out Chinese in VN-Laos-Camb-border of Thailand, this time is different


----------



## hurt

NiceGuy said:


> That time, we were busy to kill and kick out Chinese in VN-Laos-Camb-border of Thailand, this time is different



Yes,your navy always are busy in land.
The hundreds coward dogs of vietem navy were busy to be killed in that time.


----------



## NiceGuy

hurt said:


> Yes,your navy always are busy in land.
> The hundreds coward dogs of vietem navy were busy to be killed in that time.


We were too poor, we didnt have enough money to buy warship that time. Things changed now, those disloyal and Chinese traitors in Laos-Camb have been killed and kicked out all already, its time to hunt Chinese in SCS(east sea)


----------



## hurt

NiceGuy said:


> We were too poor, we didnt have enough money to buy warship that time. Things changed now, those disloyal and Chinese traitors in Laos-Camb have been killed and kicked out all already, its time to hunt Chinese in SCS(east sea)



South Vietnam navy own lots warship&#65292;but became coward dogs.
You are same.
Hunting is already begin,but you are the prey.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Fsjal

Why would coast guards use autocannons??? I thought they use water cannons?
BTW, that autocannon are 'definitely' advance.


----------



## Soryu

hurt said:


> Yes&#65292;2M-3 is enough to hurting lots of coward dogs in SCS like we done in Johnson South Reef Skirmish and Battle of the Paracel Islands.
> hundreds coward dogs
> 2M-3 biggest victories!



Vietnamese soldiers with only AK rifle and bare hand were face off to Chinese soldiers with auto-cannons.
And you barking in here with your keybroad so loud !

So, who's coward dogs !? Asking anyone, even your fellow Chinese to get the answer.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Fsjal

Philippines says China withdraws invitation for President Aquino to visit trade fair - The Washington Post

MANILA, Philippines &#8212; The Philippines and China, already locked in a territorial dispute, engaged in a diplomatic tussle Thursday, with the Philippine president canceling a visit to a trade fair in China after being told to stay away, and Beijing saying it never invited him in the first place.

A spokesman for the Philippine Department of Foreign Affairs, Raul Hernandez, said President Benigno Aquino III had decided not to make the daylong visit to the China-ASEAN Expo scheduled for next Tuesday in the southern city of Nanning.

Hernandez said China had invited the Philippines to send a high-level delegation to the trade fair a few months ago. Aquino said Wednesday that he would go, but word came from China later in the day that he should not visit, Hernandez said.

&#8220;The president has decided not to proceed ... taking into consideration China&#8217;s request for the president to visit China at a more conducive time,&#8221; he said in a statement.

The Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman&#8217;s office said Beijing had not invited Aquino to attend the expo.

&#8220;China never extended an invitation to the Philippine president,&#8221; it said in a statement sent to The Associated Press.

Speaking Wednesday, Aquino told reporters: &#8220;You may be surprised, I will travel next week. It&#8217;s quite a long trip to China. I will leave at 5 in the morning and will be back at 5 in the afternoon.&#8221;

&#8220;I don&#8217;t want to overstay our welcome there,&#8221; he added.

The Philippines is this year&#8217;s &#8220;country of honor&#8221; at the trade fair, which takes place in China every year to highlight trade exchanges between Beijing and the 10-member Association of Southeast Asian Nations.

The Philippines and China have been embroiled in an increasingly antagonistic territorial dispute in the South China Sea.

Last year, China seized a shoal near the northwestern coast of the Philippines, and this year it demanded that the Philippine navy withdraw from Second Thomas Shoal farther south.

The Philippines has further incensed China by seeking U.N. arbitration to solve the disputes.

Dwarfed by China&#8217;s mammoth military, the Philippines also has started negotiations with Washington to allow a larger number of U.S. troops to have access to local military camps, where they could pre-position ships, assault helicopters and high-tech surveillance aircraft in close proximity to the South China Sea.

China sought to use economic pressure to sway Manila, and in the latest sign of Beijing&#8217;s growing assertiveness, reorganized its coast guard to beef up its ability to police its maritime claims.

The visit&#8217;s cancellation was announced as China was hosting ASEAN foreign ministers ahead of talks in China next month on how to implement a 2002 agreement on peacefully handling disagreements.

Referring to the South China Sea territorial dispute, Thai Foreign Minister Surapong Tovichakchaikul told reporters that ASEAN anticipated the September discussions would be &#8220;constructive and substantive.&#8221;

ASEAN nations have been pushing for a code of conduct governing interactions in the area, but China has been reluctant to negotiate with the group as a whole, preferring to deal with nations bilaterally as a way of bringing its full size, economic influence, and political heft to bear on its much smaller neighbors.

China claims virtually the entire South China Sea and its island groups on historical grounds. The Philippines, Vietnam, Brunei, Malaysia and Taiwan have rejected that, sparking fears that the disputes might turn violent.

Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi reiterated China&#8217;s reluctance to discuss territorial disputes with ASEAN as a bloc, while emphasizing the importance Beijing places on regional stability.

&#8220;We do not believe one individual position should replace that of ASEAN, and cannot let our own individual relations be affected by one&#8217;s selfish interests,&#8221; Wang said.
--------
Definitely not the right time for Aquino to visit China.


----------



## Zero_wing

And nothing will be lost big deal


----------



## cirr

1750-ton CMS 3015 launched&#65306;


----------



## Zero_wing

Nice intel thanks


----------



## 帅的一匹

Soryu said:


> Vietnamese soldiers with only AK rifle and bare hand were face off to Chinese soldiers with auto-cannons.
> And you barking in here with your keybroad so loud !
> 
> So, who's coward dogs !? Asking anyone, even your fellow Chinese to get the answer.


Vietnam troll


----------



## Fsjal

Zero_wing said:


> Nice intel thanks



If you are referring to the CMS 3015, then you must think those are intels, when in fact the Chinese did not post any of the ships's performance, size, etc...

Anyway, what are you going to do to the ship, ram it like what we did to the Taiwanese fisherman?


----------



## Lightningbolt

Zero_wing said:


> And nothing will be lost big deal



Getting so emotional


----------



## Soryu

hurt said:


> Very angry!
> 
> Now who ask us army to help


And What's help, kid !?


wanglaokan said:


> Vietnam troll



look at your buddy and ask yourself who's want some shjt ...


----------



## longyi

*Taiwan set to spend US$100 mil. on work at disputed Spratlys*



TAIPEI -- Taiwan plans to spend more than US$100 million to build a dock big enough for warships in the disputed Spratly islands, a legislator said Thursday, as other claimants strengthen their regional military presence.

The plan submitted to parliament Thursday by the coastguard would cost TW$3.4 billion (US$112.4 million). Sources said the spending is expected to be approved.

The dock will be an upgrade on the existing pier at the Taiwan-controlled island of Taiping, the biggest island in the Spratlys. It is scheduled to become operational in 2016.

National security authorities have decided to expedite the project as the other countries in the region have been increasing their naval and air force deployment in the past few years, further complicating the issue, legislator Lin Yu-fang said in a statement.

Once it is completed, large supply ships and even naval frigates will be able to berth, said Lin, a legislator from the ruling Kuomintang party who sits on parliament's defense committee.

The current pier caters only to small patrol boats.

Once the dock work is completed the runway on Taiping will be extended, Lin said.

Taiwan built a 1,150-meter (3,800-foot) runway on Taiping in mid-2006, despite protests from other countries with claims to the disputed island group.

Taiwan, Vietnam, Brunei, China, Malaysia, and the Philippines claim all or part of the potentially oil-rich Spratlys.

All claimants except Brunei have troops based on some part of the archipelago of more than 100 islets, reefs and atolls, which have a total land mass of less than 5 square kilometers (2 square miles).

Overlapping claims in the South China Sea are seen as a potential military flashpoint, and there has been a series of disputes in recent years.

The Philippines and Vietnam have been strengthening their military deployment in the sea after complaining that China is becoming increasingly aggressive in asserting its own claims. 

Taiwan set to spend US$100 mil. on work at disputed Spratlys - The China Post

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zero_wing

Fsjal said:


> If you are referring to the CMS 3015, then you must think those are intels, when in fact the Chinese did not post any of the ships's performance, size, etc...
> 
> Anyway, what are you going to do to the ship, ram it like what we did to the Taiwanese fisherman?



What the hell do you care? you dont even know who the hell you are?


----------



## Zero_wing

Not really am saying its not a lose i mean the US defense sec is here so going to china is waste of time besides it just solidify our suspicions that china can not keep its word on anything and you people wonder why non of your neighbors trust you or want to solve the problem using your 19th century gun boat diplomacy (bilateral)


----------



## Zero_wing

Lightningbolt said:


> He is a real Pinoy. You are just a fraud.



Thanks for calling me real Filipino and him fraud jerk off


----------



## hurt

Soryu said:


> So it's really no help to you !? how pity, feel sorry for you.



Nice 2M-3


----------



## cirr

CMS 4001 and CMS 4002 were launched on 31.08.2013 and 02.09.2013 respectively at WCS&#65306;







Îä´¬Á½ËÒÇ§¶Ö¼¶º£¼à´¬Â½ÐøÏÂË®£¨Í¼£© ¡ª ÐÂÎÅÊÓµã ¡ª ¹ú·À¿Æ¼¼ÐÅÏ¢Íø ÖÐ¹ú×îÈ¨ÍþµÄ¹ú·À¿Æ¼¼ÐÅÏ¢µÄ×¨ÒµÃÅ»§ ¹ú¼Ê¾üÊÂÐÂÎÅ ¹úÄÚ¾üÊÂÐÂÎÅ ÈÈµã¾üÊÂ×¨Ìâ ÖÐ¹ú¶À¼ÒµÄ¾üÊÂÍ¼Æ¬ ¾üÊÂÊÓÆµ


----------



## EastSea

cirr said:


> CMS 4001 and CMS 4002 were launched on 31.08.2013 and 02.09.2013 respectively at WCS&#65306;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Îä´¬Á½ËÒÇ§¶Ö¼¶º£¼à´¬Â½ÐøÏÂË®£¨Í¼£© ¡ª ÐÂÎÅÊÓµã ¡ª ¹ú·À¿Æ¼¼ÐÅÏ¢Íø ÖÐ¹ú×îÈ¨ÍþµÄ¹ú·À¿Æ¼¼ÐÅÏ¢µÄ×¨ÒµÃÅ»§ ¹ú¼Ê¾üÊÂÐÂÎÅ ¹úÄÚ¾üÊÂÐÂÎÅ ÈÈµã¾üÊÂ×¨Ìâ ÖÐ¹ú¶À¼ÒµÄ¾üÊÂÍ¼Æ¬ ¾üÊÂÊÓÆµ



I think the shipyard have to pay hug amount pension money for "Guanxi" to have contract to build such useless toys. 



> The 46-year-old Mr. Li, who gave only his surname, said he works for China Rongsheng Heavy Industries Group Holdings Ltd. 1101.HK -3.13% The company Friday said it is struggling to pay employees and suppliers and is in talks with its bankers for more credit. Rongsheng also is seeking financial help from the government and shareholders amid a prolonged industry slump.




China Rongsheng Shipyard's Struggles Illustrate Beijing's Dilemma


----------



## Zero_wing

Wow nice intel


----------



## Krueger

Friday, 06 September, 2013 







The Philippines has recalled its ambassador to China for consultations, the foreign affairs department said yesterday amid fresh tensions in a seething maritime territorial row.

Ambassador Erlinda Basilio flew back to Manila as the defence department this week accused China of laying 75 concrete blocks on disputed territory in the South China Sea, foreign affairs department spokesman Raul Hernandez said.

"She was asked to come home for consultations, and she will (be in Manila) for the next few days," Hernandez said.

He said Basilio was advising Philippine officials on how to handle the alleged Chinese actions at the Scarborough Shoal, a rocky outcrop about 220 kilometres off the main Philippine island of Luzon, within the country's internationally recognised exclusive economic zone. The outcrop, which China calls Huangyan Island, is about 650 kilometres from Hainan , the nearest major Chinese land mass.

Asked if Manila would lodge a diplomatic protest or undertake other options, Hernandez said: "We are still studying the matter."

The Philippine foreign ministry earlier said President Benigno Aquino had called off a planned trip to China for a trade fair after Chinese authorities imposed conditions on the trip.

The concrete blocks have raised concerns in Manila that China could be planning construction, as it did on Philippine-claimed Mischief Reef in another area of the sea in 1995.

Foreign ministry spokesman Hong Lei said it was the Philippines which was causing the problems. "The Scarborough Shoal is China's intrinsic territory. The Philippines should respect China's sovereignty," he told a daily news briefing.

"If the Philippines really is paying attention to and cares about the Code of Conduct for the South China Sea, it ought to earnestly stand by, and put into effect the Declaration of Conduct, and create a good environment and conditions for talks on the Code of Conduct, and not make trouble out of nothing and cause incidents."

On Wednesday, he rejected the Philippine allegations of block-laying.

China claims most of the South China Sea, including waters close to the coasts of its neighbours.

Brunei, Malaysia, Taiwan and Vietnam also have competing claims to parts of the South China Sea, and the rivalries have been a source of tension for decades.

The Philippines engaged China in a tense stand-off at Scarborough Shoal last year.

Manila has said the Chinese have effectively taken control of the shoal by stationing vessels there and preventing Philippine fishermen from entering the area.

In January the government asked a United Nations tribunal to rule on the validity of the Chinese claims to most of the sea. China has rejected the move, but has said it wants to solve disputes through bilateral negotiations with concerned parties.

Manila recalls Beijing ambassador amid row over Scarborough Shoal | South China Morning Post


----------



## Sonyuke_Songpaisan

Countries like phil are so noisy. NObody wants pay attention to them in china.


----------



## xunzi

We don't care.


----------



## Zero_wing

Did i ask you? in the first place? what you think?


----------



## Viet

Vietnam establishes seaplane squadron


English.news.cn 2013-09-06 12:10:44 













HANOI, Sept. 6 (Xinhua) -- Vietnamese Navy held a ceremony to announce the decision of forming a DHC-6 seaplane squadron, which is supposed to manage all relevant combat-ready and training activities, local Tien Phong (Pioneer) news website reported on Friday.

At the ceremony held on Thursday in northern Vietnamese city of Hai Phong, Vice Admiral Pham Ngoc Minh, the Navy's chief of staff, said the establishment of the DHC-6 seaplane squadron, along with the EC-225 helicopter squadron, the Navy's first squadron formed on Dec. 25, 2011, are steps to building up the modern regular Navy and fulfilling the task of safeguarding *Vietnam's sovereignty over territorial waters and islands*.

Viking Air aircraft manufacturer and its subsidiary Pacific Aviation held a graduation ceremony for 8 Vietnamese pilots mastering DHC-6 Twin Otter Series 400, also known as the Guardian 400, in Canada on July 10.

In May 2010, Vietnam's Navy signed with Viking Air a contract on buying six Guardian 400s. According to the Canadian manufacturer, the seaplanes is fully-equipped for transport, maritime patrol and surveillance, resupply, search and rescue purposes.

Of the total, three are specially equipped for maritime patrol and coastal surveillance.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Fsjal

Vietnam isn't the only one sending planes to the South China Sea. The Philippine Navy sends planes to watch on Chinese ship movements.

Also, China has satellites, spying on the sea, under the disguise as geographic sats.


----------



## cirr

CMS 8001 launched a couple of days ago at HPS&#65306;






More&#65292;lots more&#65292;on their way&#12290;


----------



## Minjitta

cirr said:


> CMS 8001 launched a couple of days ago at HPS&#65306;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More&#65292;lots more&#65292;on their way&#12290;


Congraduation 
Great trade off 1 Ship for 1 missile

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## hurt

Minjitta said:


> Congraduation
> Great trade off 1 Ship for 1 missile







I think so too.


----------



## Minjitta

hurt said:


> I think so too.


LOL How can you shoot the photo shop ship


----------



## hurt

Minjitta said:


> LOL How can you shoot the photo shop ship



Wellcome to shoot our real ship,waiting it


----------



## faithfulguy

hurt said:


> Wellcome to shoot our real ship,waiting it



Why is Vietnam trying to take on China alone in SCS. Isn't that suicidal as Vietnamese navy barely can handle China's coast guard. Forget about real naval engagements.


----------



## Soryu

faithfulguy said:


> Why is Vietnam trying to take on China alone in SCS. Isn't that suicidal as Vietnamese navy barely can handle China's coast guard. Forget about real naval engagements.



So you think who dared to playing with PRC CMS on SCS at all the time until now !?


----------



## hurt

faithfulguy said:


> Why is Vietnam trying to take on China alone in SCS. Isn't that suicidal as Vietnamese navy barely can handle China's coast guard. Forget about real naval engagements.



Great trade off 1 Ship for 1 missile.
Great trade off 1 Navy for 1 ship.
Waiting them.



Soryu said:


> So you think who dared to playing with PRC CMS on SCS at all the time until now !?



Shoot them plz


----------



## faithfulguy

hurt said:


> Great trade off 1 Ship for 1 missile.
> Great trade off 1 Navy for 1 ship.
> Waiting them.
> 
> 
> 
> Shoot them plz



If there is a naval war breaking out now, Vietnamese navy has no chance. They are more of a coast guard navy. A brown water navy.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

*4000-ton CCG 2401 launched today at HPS*&#65306;





















More&#65292;lots more&#65292;in bursting pipeline&#12290;



Minjitta said:


> Congraduation
> Great trade off 1 Ship for 1 missile



If you ever dare as much as fire one &#65288;Russian made) missile at any Chinese ship, it means the total annihilation of the Vietnamese Navy as we know it.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Soryu

cirr said:


> *4000-ton CCG 2401 launched today at HPS*&#65306;
> 
> 
> If you ever dare as much as fire one &#65288;Russian made) missile at any Chinese ship, it means the total annihilation of the Vietnamese Navy as we know it.



LOL, Chinese speak loud as ever, but even when We destroyed Khmer-rouge and slap on your face in 1979, and still, here we stand.

We ram on you everyday when you try to sneak in our sea, and what's mighty PRC do until now!?
PRC can only fire on fishing-ship or cut civilian-ship's cable. 
This is not 1988, when you bow down to USA and get her help to push VN around with war.


----------



## Fsjal

Soryu said:


> LOL, Chinese speak loud as ever, but even when *We destroyed Khmer-rouge and slap on your face in 1979, and still, here we stand.*
> 
> We ram on you everyday when you try to sneak in our sea, and what's mighty PRC do until now!?
> PRC can only fire on fishing-ship or cut civilian-ship's cable.
> *This is not 1988*, when you bow down to USA and get her help to push VN around with war.



This ain't 1979.

China is years ahead of Vietnam in military tech and tactics. The Vietnam War is over. War is fought with advance technology.

BTW, you're an ironic clown.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Edison Chen

Soryu said:


> LOL, Chinese speak loud as ever, but even when We destroyed Khmer-rouge and slap on your face in 1979, and still, here we stand.
> 
> We ram on you everyday when you try to sneak in our sea, and what's mighty PRC do until now!?
> PRC can only fire on fishing-ship or cut civilian-ship's cable.
> This is not 1988, when you bow down to USA and get her help to push VN around with war.



Vietnamese, please just face the reality. If you wanna find excuse or defend yourself with worthless facts, as you go. Today what is happening right now is, we are pushing you into the corner step by step. Our future 10,000 ton CCG and 12,000 ton Type 055 will bury you deep under the SCS.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

On Sept. 10th 2013&#65292;a groundbreaking ceremony was held of the construction of a new type of 3500-ton *electric propulsion* fishery law enforcement vessel at Wuchang Shipbuilding Co., Ltd.&#65306;












Launch in 2014.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Soryu

Fsjal said:


> This ain't 1979.
> 
> China is years ahead of Vietnam in military tech and tactics. The Vietnam War is over. War is fought with advance technology.
> 
> BTW, you're an ironic clown.


Stop quote my post. I don't want waste time with false-flagger troll do.g .


Edison Chen said:


> Vietnamese, please just face the reality. If you wanna find excuse or defend yourself with worthless facts, as you go. Today what is happening right now is, we are pushing you into the corner step by step. Our future 10,000 ton CCG and 12,000 ton Type 055 will bury you deep under the SCS.



Reality!?

So why did mighty PRC still do nothing but *war on newspaper, until now
We ramed on your CMS Ship whenever you sneak in our water, and what can you do !?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

I am sure&#65292;absolutely sure&#65292;that our neighbours in the SCS&#65292;especially Vietnam and the Philippines&#65292;would very much enjoy the company of the following ships in the not-too-distant future&#65306;

Zubirs










Type 056As and Type 054As










CCGs 2401 and 3401










More CCGs and Type 056s


----------



## cirr

Another double-hull in the making






Miles and miles of blocks






Enough for dozens of FFGs&#12289;law enforcement ships, surveillance ships and other auxiliary/support vesselss&#12290;


----------



## Minjitta

cirr said:


> Another double-hull in the making
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Miles and miles of blocks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Enough for dozens of FFGs&#12289;law enforcement ships, surveillance ships and other auxiliary/support vesselss&#12290;


Alot of Chinese BIG Targets

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## hurt

Minjitta said:


> Alot of Chinese BIG Targets



Ok&#65292;shoot them plz


----------



## punjabilion

MANILA - The Philippines and the
United States will begin war games
near disputed South China Sea
waters this week, showcasing fast-
expanding military ties and likely
further stoking tensions with China.
The annual exercises, which involve
2,300 marines from both sides, will
take place amid the backdrop of
ongoing negotiations to further
increase an American military
presence and the deployment of its
hardware in the former US colony.
They also come three weeks before
US President Barack Obama is due to
visit Manila, a huge moment for the
Philippines as it looks for US support
amid a worsening row with China
over rival claims to parts of the
South China Sea. The Chinese will
view these military exercises as yet
another example of the Philippines
stirring up tensions in the South
China Sea and of the US taking
advantage of the situation to
increase its military presence,
regional security expert Ian Storey
told AFP.
Beijing, which insists it has
sovereignty to nearly all of the South
China Sea, has repeatedly railed at
the Philippines for refusing to back
down in the territorial dispute and
seeking to draw the US closer.
Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei and
Taiwan also have competing claims
to parts of the sea, which is believed
to sit atop vast deposits of fossil
fuels, but China has been
particularly angered at the
Philippines for being the most vocal.
For the Philippines, the dispute will
continue to be the central driver of
efforts to intensify its alliance with
the US, according to Storey, a senior
fellow at the Institute of Southeast
Asian Studies in Singapore.
The Philippine-US Amphibious
Landing Exercises (Phiblex) will
begin on Wednesday at a naval base
in Zambales, a province on the
western coast of Luzon island facing
the South China Sea.
It is about 220 kilometres (135
miles) from Scarborough Shoal, a
group of rocky outcrops in the
Philippines internationally
recognised exclusive economic zone
which has been occupied by Chinese
vessels since last year.
Scarborough Shoal has become the
prime focus of the territorial dispute
in recent weeks, with the Philippines
accusing China of erecting concrete
structures there.
The war games, which will last three
weeks, will involve two US warships
and live ground fire exercises,
according to the Philippine military.
Staff planning exercises will also be
held that will increase the
capability to conduct bilateral
maritime security and territorial
defence operation, the US embassy
said in a statement.
Neither side, however, would release
the specific locations for the sea
drills.
The exercises take place as the allies
are moving closer to a planned deal
that would expand the US troop
presence in the Philippines, which
wants the agreement struck before
the end of the year.
The pact would allow the United
States to bring military hardware on
to local bases, and formalise more
US troop visits.
The United States had a permanent
military presence at two bases in the
Philippines until 1992.
The bases were closed amid
nationalist opposition, but the
current administration of President
Benigno Aquino has rallied pro-US
sentiment to counter China.
Even ahead of the pact, there has
been a surge in recent years of US
troops passing through the
Philippines, according to John
Blaxland, a security and defence
analyst at the Australia National
Universitys College of Asia and the
Pacific.
This has dovetailed with Obamas
strategic pivot to Asia, which in
turn has fuelled long-held Chinese
concerns about the US trying to
encircle China.
The Philippines is one of the most
enthusiastic supporters for the
rebalancing in Asia, and the US is
very happy to have regained routine
access, if not formal basing at the
naval and air facilities there,
Blaxland told AFP.
Storey also said that independent
research data showed there had
been an increase in US military
visits.
The number of US warships making
calls in the Philippines has
increased dramatically to 80 this
year, he said.
A Philippine Navy officer, who asked
not to be named, confirmed the
increase in port calls to Manila as
well as in Subic, the former US naval
base in Zambales.
AFP asked the US embassy in Manila
for data on US military visits to the
Philippines in recent years, but no
information was provided

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Abu Zolfiqar

renewed focus to SE Asia....


----------



## punjabilion

source = nation.com.pk. my mobile does nt support link. sorry


----------



## punjabilion

usa and philippines should make a friendship treaty, like india and russia did in 1971.


----------



## EastSea

hurt said:


> Ok&#65292;shoot them plz



if they do idiot thing in our EZZ.


----------



## Fsjal

Why is this even news?

America needs to GTFO. Nosy jingoistic fools. This is not their dispute in the sea. They only want oil, greedy capitalist fat cats.



punjabilion said:


> usa and philippines should make a friendship treaty, like india and russia did in 1971.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_Defense_Treaty_(U.S.%E2%80%93Philippines)

Why do you even care? Your country isn't even part of this.


----------



## Srinivas

In my view this is good for Philippines, You people are yet to know the true intentions of CCP. So better have a counter weight to Chinese bullying.

* To tell you the first thing Chinese did after the credit crisis in July is go to USA for dialogue. *

China is behaving like a shadow. It is not opposing USA neither it is welcoming it. 



Fsjal said:


> Why is this even news?
> 
> America needs to GTFO. Nosy jingoistic fools. This is not their dispute in the sea. They only want oil, greedy capitalist fat cats.
> 
> 
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_Defense_Treaty_(U.S.%E2%80%93Philippines)
> 
> Why do you even care? Your country isn't even part of this.


----------



## Fsjal

Srinivas said:


> In my view this is good for Philippines, You people are yet to know the true intentions of CCP. So better have a counter weight to Chinese bullying.
> 
> * To tell you the first thing Chinese did after the credit crisis in July is go to USA for dialogue. *
> 
> China is behaving like a shadow. It is not opposing USA neither it is welcoming it.



We don't need the US. We can do this ourselves. Anyway, China has yet to fire the first shot.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## punjabilion

Fsjal said:


> We don't need the US. We can do this ourselves. Anyway, China has yet to fire the first shot.



plz make ur mind first what u wanna say.


----------



## hurt

EastSea said:


> if they do idiot thing in our EZZ.



They can do every thing in our EZZ,shoot them plz


----------



## Zero_wing

anti filipino clowns are just that clowns pay attention to them



Edison Chen said:


> No, USA walk the dog in SCS. They send out the dog to bark.
> 
> No no no no...I want to revise my words, actually they are insulting the dog.  Japan could be a qualified dog, Philippines is even less than dog, they are nothing but air.


 
Well looks like your upset your not getting your way commie bihon clown


----------



## Minjitta

hurt said:


> They can do every thing in our EZZ,shoot them plz


We dont cowardly shoot fisherman.... 
but when real war start by Chinese then all bets are off.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Minjitta

hurt said:


> They can do every thing in our EZZ,shoot them plz


We dont cowardly shoot fisherman.... 
but when real war start by Chinese then all bets are off.


----------



## hurt

Minjitta said:


> We dont cowardly shoot fisherman....
> but when real war start by Chinese then all bets are off.



Plz,waiting for you.
Your viets are all bark and no bite.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## hurt

EastSea said:


> Chinese is mad Dog ! all most neighbors were bitten !



China own 18(23) neighbors, why just strick your few rogue states?


----------



## Tambram

EastSea said:


> Chinese is mad Dog ! all most neighbors were bitten !



Indians will be with you against the Chinese.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## hurt

Tambram said:


> Indians will be with you against the Chinese.



you&#65311;loser
If we attack viet now,what can you do for poor viet?


----------



## Tambram

hurt said:


> you&#65311;loser
> If we attack viet now,what can you do for poor viet?



Negotiations are going on for arming them with Nuclear missiles for use against barbarians.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Edison Chen

Tambram said:


> Indians will be with you against the Chinese.



Fvck off, 3rd world peasant, please build more toilet and try to use napkins when pull your **** out of hole.


----------



## EastSea

Chinese robbers can not swallow our Islands .






Viet Nam&#8217;s sovereignty stele on Hoang Sa Islands,

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## faithfulguy

EastSea said:


> Chinese robbers can not swallow our Islands .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Viet Nam&#8217;s sovereignty stele on Hoang Sa Islands,



If I go to an island and make one of this, does that automatically make it mine?


----------



## Genesis

Minjitta said:


> We dont cowardly shoot fisherman....
> but when real war start by Chinese then all bets are off.



shooting fisherman is the proud skill of the Filipino navy. We have never done it. Get your facts straight.


----------



## EastSea

faithfulguy said:


> If I go to an island and make one of this, does that automatically make it mine?



It was installed from time of Nguyen Dynasty in the past when Man Qing China's ( Cantonese Governor) considered Islands not belong to China. If China invaded with force, every action its illegal.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## hurt

Tambram said:


> Negotiations are going on for arming them with Nuclear missiles for use against barbarians.



Idiot



EastSea said:


> It was installed from time of Nguyen Dynasty in the past when Man Qing China's ( Cantonese Governor) considered Islands not belong to China. If China invaded with force, every action its illegal.



those islands never belong to viet

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NiceGuy

hurt said:


> those islands never belong to viet


What ever, we r controlling almost all islands in Spratly now, and we can destroy your economy in 3 weeks with a mine line from our nearest island(Vanguard bank) to our shoal whenever we want

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## hurt

NiceGuy said:


> What ever, we r controlling almost all islands in Spratly now, and we can destroy your economy in 3 weeks with a mine line from our nearest island(Vanguard bank) to our shoal whenever we want


What ever,You will lost them soon.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Fsjal

NiceGuy said:


> What ever, we r controlling almost all islands in Spratly now, and *we can destroy your economy in 3 weeks* with a mine line from our nearest island(Vanguard bank) to our shoal whenever we want



Impossible. China's economy is like a behemoth, while Vietnam's economy is like a mice.


----------



## NiceGuy

hurt said:


> What ever,You will lost them soon.


Poor Ah Q wt "spiritual victories" wet dream 

The Fate of Your economy is in our hands now 



Fsjal said:


> Impossible. China's economy is like a behemoth, while Vietnam's economy is like a mice.


Impossible ?? whatever, lets wait and see

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Fsjal

NiceGuy said:


> Poor Ah Q wt "spiritual victories" wet dream
> 
> The Fate of Your economy is in our hands now
> 
> 
> Impossible ?? whatever, lets wait and see



Please, learn economics and business before you bark. Anyway, do they not have economics in Vietnamese schools?


----------



## hurt

NiceGuy said:


> Poor Ah Q wt "spiritual victories" wet dream
> 
> The Fate of Your economy is in our hands now
> 
> 
> Impossible ?? whatever, lets wait and see


China GDP in 2012: $8227 billions

Vietnam GDP in 2012:$ 138 billions

In your hands?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## GR!FF!N

A series of high-level ASEAN meetings culminated in Suzhou, China on September 15, when senior officials from the forum for the first time met to formally discuss the possibility of a code of conduct (COC) in the South China Sea. According to the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the meeting ended positively, with an agreement to seek gradual progress and consensus through consultations, though no deadlines or details about the joint working group that will carry out the task were made available.

It is likely that the development is an attempt by Beijing to woo ASEAN once again, given the skepticism among member countries towards China in recent years. Most media reports from ASEAN countries reflect the national disbelief that China is indeed keen on creating a COC in a timely manner. Singapore-based Channel News Asia, for example, reported on the meeting under the headline "Beijing open to code of conduct in South China Sea, but not now," suggesting that China still seemed more comfortable bringing up the issue bilaterally than in multinational forums. The sole exception was the Thai media, which claimed that the ball had been set rolling for a speedy resolution and quickly suggested that as the coordinator of China-ASEAN relations, Thailand is the only nation poised to act as a tough broker  more so because of its non-claimant nature in the dispute. Even the Chinese state-owned media  the Peoples Daily  bracketed the COC issue with past violations of the 2002 Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea (DOC), suggesting that a new, binding code would be meaningless if earlier agreements were not upheld.

It seems China might have agreed in principle to a COC, but it is not ready to make the adjustments necessary to draw up a functioning document. It has successfully managed to coerce and arm-twist its neighbors in the region by virtue of its vastly larger size and stronger military, seen as recently in March 2013 when it held amphibious landing exercises to defend the South China Sea near the Spratly Islands, barely 50 miles off the coast of Malaysia. Its claim to most of the South China Sea through the nine-dashed line, which seems to have been expanded to a ten-dash-line in the latest maps, is also unlikely to stand scrutiny if a COC came into force. For China, therefore, Xi Jinpings July exhortation to a Politburo study session suggesting that resolving maritime territorial disputes did not mean abandoning "core national interests" still holds paramount.

Yet it is not just China that wants to go slow on the COC. If a code of conduct is finalized, all major claimants in the region will either have to justify or retract from projects of strategic and economic interest to them including, but not limited to, the U.S. rebalance to Asia. Vietnams offshore exploration projects with countries like Russia and India, for example, while within its EEZ, have faced constant objections from China that has claimed these areas as its own. It is unlikely that China will allow the COC to proceed as long as these projects continue. The COC may also affect the budding U.S.-Vietnam military cooperation as well as other military relationships like the recent Indian $100-million credit line to Vietnam for patrol boats for the same disputed waters. Similarly, the Philippines, which is set to welcome back U.S. Navy vessels after two decades and is expecting its first visit from U.S. President Barack Obama next month, is unlikely to agree to give up its recent diplomatic gains. Singapore too, has enjoyed long security ties with the U.S. which are slated for an upgrade with plans to berth American littoral combat ships there as part of the rebalance. Malaysias recent claim that it is less worried than other claimants are about Chinese patrol boats in the disputed waters shows that the constituents of ASEAN are not as united on keeping China in check as previously believed. It is also unclear how proceedings at the UN Arbitral Tribunal in the Hague, which the Philippines has approached, will affect the COC.

Given the current political dynamics of Southeast Asia, it is unlikely that any country labors under the belief that the South China Sea issue can be resolved with a code of conduct. For most it is another way of keeping China in check. The road to the COC, therefore, is likely to be a circuitous one, balancing Chinas great power aspirations on the one hand, and the interests of smaller countries in accruing economic and security benefits from the region on the other.


A Code of Conduct for the South China Sea? | Flashpoints | The Diplomat

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

Vietnam, China working group discuss sea cooperation


English.news.cn | 2013-09-26 22:00:08 | Editor: An

HANOI, Sept. 26 (Xinhua) -- The working group on Vietnam-China cooperation in less sensitive issues at sea agreed on two joint cooperation projects during their fourth round of negotiations which ended Thursday in Vietnam's capital Hanoi.

During the three-day negotiation, the two sides reached consensus to conduct joint research on management of marine and island environment in the Tonkin Gulf, reported Vietnam's state- run online radio Voice of Vietnam.

They will also conduct comparative research on Holocene sedimentary deposits in Vietnam's Red River Delta and in China's Yangtze River Delta.

The two sides agreed to work closely together to soon sign the two projects in order to start the implementation in late 2013.

The fifth round of negotiations is scheduled to take place in China in the first half of 2014.


Vietnam, China working group discuss sea cooperation - Xinhua | English.news.cn

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zero_wing

Fsjal said:


> Impossible. China's economy is like a behemoth, while Vietnam's economy is like a mice.



You mean bubble ready to blow

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## bolo

Zero_wing said:


> You mean bubble ready to blow



&#36051;&#20180;&#35498;&#36027;&#35441;&#12290;
Many experts have predicted since 1990 but never came true. I call their bs all the time.


----------



## cirr

CCG 31101


----------



## EastSea



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zero_wing

bolo said:


> &#36051;&#20180;&#35498;&#36027;&#35441;&#12290;
> Many experts have predicted since 1990 but never came true. I call their bs all the time.



Really now i guess being the best preforming economy is just bs huh? Speaking of bs you people should know about all that you people wrote the book on bull after all i mean lying about your economic status is all time low ya suck on that jerk


----------



## cirr

CCG 3383


----------



## Rechoice



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cirr

[YouKu]XNjE2MjY5NDg4[/YouKu]

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Fsjal



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Krueger

Agence France-Presse
October 4, 2013 
*
China has to learn to "play by the rules" and the Philippines must sharply boost its defences to keep South China Sea territorial spats from escalating, two former US officials said Friday.*

The Philippines has consistently accused China of aggressively pressing its claim to most of the South China Sea, even up to the coasts of neighbours like the Philippines, raising tensions in the Asia-Pacific region.

Speaking at the sidelines of a maritime security forum in Manila, ex-US defence undersecretary Walter Slocombe stressed that no one wanted to see a confrontation with China over territory.
*
"We (military allies the Philippines and the United States) must find a way to defend our interests and our sovereignty, the rule of law and the proposition that issues like this are to be resolved peacefully and not by the threat of the use of force."*

He warned: "There is a real danger of an incident blowing up and becoming a source of a much bigger conflict."

*Dennis Blair, former commander of US forces in the Pacific, added: "We have to convince China that as it involves the rest of the region and the world in solving its problems, it has to play by the rules whether those rules are in business, diplomacy or in military force."*

Both men said they could not fully explain why China was now pressing its territorial claims.

It could be a case of leaders manipulating nationalism, a mistaken assumption that the United States was withdrawing from Asia, or even the belief of some important Chinese figures that "China should run the world", Slocombe said.

China's restiveness had produced negative reactions, said Slocombe, who was in the Pentagon when Bill Clinton was US president.* "In a very short time, China has made the US very popular in the Western Pacific."*

But while the Philippines is relying on the United States to back it up against China, Slocombe said it must also undertake a serious effort to develop "a minimum deterrent military capacity".

"The Philippines needs to do a strategic analysis of what it needs to do for its maritime defence," added Blair, the US Pacific commander in 1999-2002.

This would include a multi-year programme to acquire modern weapons, properly train its personnel and develop military doctrines and mechanisms, and "organise itself in a more effective manner".

Such a programme for the poorly-armed Philippines "will not only support its relations with China but will find a much more willing and able and ready partner from its treaty ally, the United States", he added.

China must 'play by the rules', Philippines must arm: US experts | GlobalPost

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## elis

Play by the rules, this sentence coming out from the USA who create Al Qaeda and call them democrats in Syria is so sarcastic

They use massively chemical weapons, cluster bombs, depleted uranium...

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Fsjal

> Dennis Blair, former commander of US forces in the Pacific, added: "We have to convince China *that as it involves the rest of the region and the world* in solving its problems, it has to play by the rules whether those rules are in business, diplomacy or in military force."
> 
> Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...ppines-must-arm-us-experts.html#ixzz2gnmfSctZ



How does this involve the world? How does this involve the US?

Nosy Americans. Why can't they stick their noses in somebody else's problem.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## tranquilium

Here is a counter proposal. US should not invade sovereign nations, bomb the crap of them and overthrown democratically elected government. I would say its pot calling kettle black, but in this case the pot is at least five shades darker than the kettle.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## hurt

Who's rules?

US show us the only rule is power.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Genesis

These stupid conflicts will solve themselves.

Once we have spent over 100 billion consistently and nearing or surpassing 200 billion in spending a year, well, I don't need to tell people who visits a defense forum what that means.

Once our economy reaches 15 Trillion which means our Per capita will be around $11,000 nominal and much more PPP, then our economy and living standard will greatly exceed every dispute nation sans japan.

At that point our dominance would be clear and well.....

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cirr

I agree that the Philippines must arm itself to the teeth&#12290;

It is the right of every nation&#12290;

The US&#65292;as the sole ally of the Phiippines&#65292;must provide&#65292;free of charge and any other conditions&#65292;all the hardware and trainings that are required to make its ally a force that's at least comparable to Vietnam&#12290;

20 billion UDS a year and for 20 years should perhaps do it&#12290;

Is the US ready to shoulder its responsibility&#65311;

The US is a pancake that's being spread increasingly thin&#12290;

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## cirr

[YouKu]XNTY3MjAwOTky[/YouKu]

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## xunzi

America, when are you going to play by the rule and ratify UNCLOS?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## sincity

US only pivot back to Asia and make all the Chinese jumpy, China can't rule this world as long as US still dominate military for another 20 yrs.

By the time China sniff world domination most of the Chinese poster in here will probably die before they see China rule the world.


----------



## xunzi

sincity said:


> US only pivot back to Asia and make all the Chinese jumpy, China can't rule this world as long as US still dominate military for another 20 yrs.
> 
> By the time China sniff world domination most of the Chinese poster in here will probably die before they see China rule the world.


We don't need to rule the world. We want to rule our region like you are ruling the North America region.


----------



## Therealtruth

There really are no rules. As far as super powers are concerned. This is in line with Americas stated strategy of their pivot to Asia.


----------



## faithfulguy

The American rule is that America should take care of America's problem. And let people of Asia take care of themselves. I support Ron Paul's foreign policy and that is to take care of America first. America is for Americans and Asia is for Asians.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## walle

more appropriate title should be the two country should play by america's rule or he will cry like a little ******.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## bolo

Depends if China is ready for superpower status or not. Listen and play by rules mean not ready.


----------



## peaceful

China will of course play by the rules, the rules defined by China and its allies. Rules made by the US can be kept in rubbish bins, a nation with its government shut twice in 20 years don't have to tell others how to run their countries. 

Philippines should also be armed, no doubt about that, a civil war in Philippines needs all those weapons.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zero_wing

peaceful said:


> China will of course play by the rules, the rules defined by China and its allies. Rules made by the US can be kept in rubbish bins, a nation with its government shut twice in 20 years don't have to tell others how to run their countries.
> 
> Philippines should also be armed, no doubt about that, a civil war in Philippines needs all those weapons.



What? So International law is nothing to you? And what civil war?


----------



## bolo

Zero_wing said:


> What? So International law is nothing to you? And what civil war?



Western made laws. Nuff said. US breaks international laws when it suits its strategic needs, China should do the same if not done so already


----------



## Zero_wing

bolo said:


> Western made laws. Nuff said. US breaks international laws when it suits its strategic needs, China should do the same if not done so already



Wow way to rationalized stupid there chief! So your solution is to break yourselves and screw everyone else? Tell me why is china part of the UN and its security council if its just going to break the rules that its obligated to protect? In scale of 1 to f how f are you?


----------



## bolo

Zero_wing said:


> Wow way to rationalized stupid there chief! So your solution is to break yourselves and screw everyone else? Tell me why is china part of the UN and its security council if its just going to break the rules that its obligated to protect? In scale of 1 to f how f are you?



US and Western countries break "international laws" when it suits them but no one cries foul. Japan breaks international laws, no one cries foul. But when supposedly China does it, the "international community" is up in arms. 

Don't use UN council as an argument point because if US want to invade another country , not even veto votes from the council can stop them. So the UN council is a joke. Disband that organization.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zero_wing

bolo said:


> US and Western countries break "international laws" when it suits them but no one cries foul. Japan breaks international laws, no one cries foul. But when supposedly China does it, the "international community" is up in arms.
> 
> Don't use UN council as an argument point because if US want to invade another country , not even veto votes from the council can stop them. So the UN council is a joke. Disband that organization.



So your telling me to bring back world war 2 condition were people kill millions to gain others territory again how f are you?


----------



## Snomannen

Play by the rules? You mean Chinese rules.


----------



## auspice

China's greed is destabilizing the whole of Southeast and East Asian region. It is following in the footsteps of the former imperialist Japan during WWII and could suffer the same fate, that is thermonuclear bombs exploding within its midst.


----------



## Solomon2

xunzi said:


> America, when are you going to play by the rule and ratify UNCLOS?


There are good reasons for the U.S. not to. The first one I recall was that it would extend U.S. sovereignty to places it doesn't care to pick a fight over sea borders, up near the Arctic (Russia & Canada). Another is that since China trashed it by adding a letter and actions claiming that UNCLOS means whatever China's Communist Party says it means then UNCLOS isn't worth the paper it's written on.


----------



## Tanja

Really interesting analysis about South China Sea


FNOTW: Analysis the South China Sea: China should be worried (part 2)

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Tanja

Unbelievable, the situation got worse 




FNOTW: Analysis the South China Sea situation (part 1)


----------



## Genesis

Tanja said:


> Unbelievable, the situation got worse
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FNOTW: Analysis the South China Sea situation (part 1)



22 million men and women died during WW2 for China, about 2 million military death. Against a military power that far overpowers us, we didn't back down.

Unlike the soviets, who had a massive industry and at the end even better techs than the germans, we fought with no guns or food, or cloth. 

When we sent troops to India for training under the Americans, for our X force, Chinese army in India, some even froze to death due to the low temperature of flying over the Himalayas. We can't put jackets on them due to the high cost of the war.

Even then 100,000 students joined the army to form an army that was able to defeat the most elite Japanese army, that took top prize in capturing Nanjing our capital, 1-2 in casualty and won an victory unimaginable even for the Americans.


Now look at the SCS countries Philippines, and whatever other small countries with less per capita income than African countries. Less manufacturing than any of our han dominated provinces, less military tech than our coast guards. Who can compare with Japan? Then or now.

The only country out of the bunch I respect is Vietnam, a country that also fought to the last man against America. 

Give up our claims? In your dreams


----------



## Zero_wing

Genesis said:


> 22 million men and women died during WW2 for China, about 2 million military death. Against a military power that far overpowers us, we didn't back down.
> 
> Unlike the soviets, who had a massive industry and at the end even better techs than the germans, we fought with no guns or food, or cloth.
> 
> When we sent troops to India for training under the Americans, for our X force, Chinese army in India, some even froze to death due to the low temperature of flying over the Himalayas. We can't put jackets on them due to the high cost of the war.
> 
> Even then 100,000 students joined the army to form an army that was able to defeat the most elite Japanese army, that took top prize in capturing Nanjing our capital, 1-2 in casualty and won an victory unimaginable even for the Americans.
> 
> 
> Now look at the SCS countries Philippines, and whatever other small countries with less per capita income than African countries. Less manufacturing than any of our han dominated provinces, less military tech than our coast guards. Who can compare with Japan? Then or now.
> 
> The only country out of the bunch I respect is Vietnam, a country that also fought to the last man against America.
> 
> Give up our claims? In your dreams



correction those guys were Cannon fodder because the Nationalist and the commies were too preoccupied to fight and only fought together and made a little difference but it was the US and the British and the rest of the Allied countries who help end the war so your so called pretty commie half truths and whole lies excuses for history is not worth the paper it is written on


----------



## Genesis

Zero_wing said:


> correction those guys were Cannon fodder because the Nationalist and the commies were too preoccupied to fight and only fought together and made a little difference but it was the US and the British and the rest of the Allied countries who help end the war so your so called pretty commie half truths and whole lies excuses for history is not worth the paper it is written on



Is this guy Communist propaganda as well?

Professor Rana Mitter - Academic Staff - Faculty of Oriental Studies - University of Oxford
Forgotten Ally: China's World War II, 1937-1945: Rana Mitter: 9780618894253: Amazon.com: Books
To understand China's foreign policy, look to World War II - The Drum Opinion (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)


The british retreated like cowards, in fact King George VI honored Sun Li Ren with the Commander of the British Empire (Order of the British Empire) medal.

Liren Sun | World War II Database

Because we saved their *** in Burma, also they folded like the french in the pacific region to the Japanese.

Americans was but 1000 men and the flying tiger squad. They can no more than annoy the Japanese.

Battle of West Hunan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Second Guangxi Campaign - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


A full scale counter attack by us was on the cards, if anything the Americans ruined the party by dropping the bombs, we would have wiped our humiliation by destroying the remaining Japanese. 

Discredit us all you want, history is written and facts are facts. Anywhere you read on this subject you will see this.


----------



## Zero_wing

Genesis said:


> Is this guy Communist propaganda as well?
> 
> Professor Rana Mitter - Academic Staff - Faculty of Oriental Studies - University of Oxford
> Forgotten Ally: China's World War II, 1937-1945: Rana Mitter: 9780618894253: Amazon.com: Books
> To understand China's foreign policy, look to World War II - The Drum Opinion (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
> 
> 
> The british retreated like cowards, in fact King George VI honored Sun Li Ren with the Commander of the British Empire (Order of the British Empire) medal.
> 
> Liren Sun | World War II Database
> 
> Because we saved their *** in Burma, also they folded like the french in the pacific region to the Japanese.
> 
> Americans was but 1000 men and the flying tiger squad. They can no more than annoy the Japanese.
> 
> Battle of West Hunan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> Second Guangxi Campaign - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> A full scale counter attack by us was on the cards, if anything the Americans ruined the party by dropping the bombs, we would have wiped our humiliation by destroying the remaining Japanese.
> 
> Discredit us all you want, history is written and facts are facts. Anywhere you read on this subject you will see this.



blah blah etc etc full air no facts just typical talk to the air no one is taking your so called history as real


----------



## Saleem

Krueger said:


> Agence France-Presse
> October 4, 2013
> *
> China has to learn to "play by the rules" and the Philippines must sharply boost its defences to keep South China Sea territorial spats from escalating, two former US officials said Friday.*
> 
> The Philippines has consistently accused China of aggressively pressing its claim to most of the South China Sea, even up to the coasts of neighbours like the Philippines, raising tensions in the Asia-Pacific region.
> 
> Speaking at the sidelines of a maritime security forum in Manila, ex-US defence undersecretary Walter Slocombe stressed that no one wanted to see a confrontation with China over territory.
> *
> "We (military allies the Philippines and the United States) must find a way to defend our interests and our sovereignty, the rule of law and the proposition that issues like this are to be resolved peacefully and not by the threat of the use of force."*
> 
> He warned: "There is a real danger of an incident blowing up and becoming a source of a much bigger conflict."
> 
> *Dennis Blair, former commander of US forces in the Pacific, added: "We have to convince China that as it involves the rest of the region and the world in solving its problems, it has to play by the rules whether those rules are in business, diplomacy or in military force."*
> 
> Both men said they could not fully explain why China was now pressing its territorial claims.
> 
> It could be a case of leaders manipulating nationalism, a mistaken assumption that the United States was withdrawing from Asia, or even the belief of some important Chinese figures that "China should run the world", Slocombe said.
> 
> China's restiveness had produced negative reactions, said Slocombe, who was in the Pentagon when Bill Clinton was US president.* "In a very short time, China has made the US very popular in the Western Pacific."*
> 
> But while the Philippines is relying on the United States to back it up against China, Slocombe said it must also undertake a serious effort to develop "a minimum deterrent military capacity".
> 
> "The Philippines needs to do a strategic analysis of what it needs to do for its maritime defence," added Blair, the US Pacific commander in 1999-2002.
> 
> This would include a multi-year programme to acquire modern weapons, properly train its personnel and develop military doctrines and mechanisms, and "organise itself in a more effective manner".
> 
> Such a programme for the poorly-armed Philippines "will not only support its relations with China but will find a much more willing and able and ready partner from its treaty ally, the United States", he added.
> 
> China must 'play by the rules', Philippines must arm: US experts | GlobalPost



yes china must play by the rules and stay a slave of the imperial powers---it should know its place----


----------



## Solomon2

Sanchez said:


> For Americans you are no more than a dog, a beggar or a sucker. When you cann't bark or provide women's pleasure for your masters you are finished. Don't you feel Philippines like prostitutes having been fukked so many times and for so long...


You're late to the party. Yeah, that might have been how the Filipinos felt. Past tense. The Philippines shut down the U.S. bases in their country two decades ago. Today they know better than they did before that it's not the U.S. who seeks to f--k them.


----------



## bolo

Zero_wing said:


> So your telling me to bring back world war 2 condition were people kill millions to gain others territory again how f are you?



when one kisses white *** expect shitty breath.


----------



## Krueger

Global Times | 2013-10-7
By Li Kaisheng

Common sense tells us that major powers usually predominate in the game of international politics. However, among the claimants in the South China Sea issue, the Philippines, a much smaller and less powerful nation than China, continues to provoke and seems to take the initiative in recent years by raising various complaints against China on this issue. 

It did not only provoke the tension on Huangyan Island in April 2012, but repeatedly forced the South China Sea issue into the agendas of some meetings attended by ASEAN countries. 

Earlier this year, Manila intentionally and unilaterally handed the issue to the UN arbitral tribunal, asking for a magnification of the issue, and the arbitration is still up in the air. 

Recently its navy claimed that they were talking about the possibility of removing the concrete blocks on Huangyan Island, allegedly installed by China.

Similar cases, small but perennial, are too many to list. China has been upholding a much tougher attitude in the last couple of years, but its current position still seems on the defensive. 

The current situation is partly caused by the two nations' foreign policies. China is still under the influence of its long-lasting policy of "hiding one's capacities and biding one's time," while the Philippines is becoming more provocative under the Benigno Aquino III administration. 

In the political sphere of East and Southeast Asia, being "small and weak" is not a disadvantage, but an advantage for smaller powers under some special circumstances. 

The reason why the Philippines can translate its small size and weak strength into an advantage comes from the particularity of the maritime disputes in East and Southeast Asia. 

Although the South China Sea issue remains a traditional security issue whose solution largely depends on national strength and military power, often it is the power of rules instead of strength and force that plays an important role. 

From the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea to the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea or the envisaged Code of Conduct in the South China Sea, whoever makes the rules and uses them well will take the initiative in the game. 

As long as the smaller countries have a good command of diplomatic skills and a profound knowledge of the rules, they will be hardly outmatched by the major powers.

The Philippines has also been given a fail-safe mechanism by the US, so that when diplomacy does not work, the US will have its back. 

Washington and Manila have a long-standing military alliance, and US President Barack Obama's "pivot to Asia" policy has also stimulated Manila's confidence to roll up its sleeves.

Manila knows that as long as Washington's core interests can be guaranteed, the US will never engage in a fight with China just for the sake of the Philippines. 

Nonetheless, Manila has been aware that although military confrontation with China is doomed, it is very likely to occupy the high ground of public opinion and perceived morality.

When international disputes break out, the international community usually shows sympathy to the disadvantaged party, even to the extent that the rights and wrongs of the issue will be ignored. Major powers are often labeled as hegemonies and bullies, and the smaller ones as victims.

What's more, in the eyes of Westerners, the Philippines is a democracy while China is a so-called communist "autocracy." This disparity adds weight to Manila's claim. 

The more sympathy the Philippines gets, the more accusations China will have to face. 

Although China has started to resort to multiple strategies to deal with the Philippines' provocations, it still remains the disadvantageous side, and some of its decisive actions even backfired, making the Philippines acquire more sympathy and support from the international community. 

Given such circumstances, how to make wise use of rules in the South China Sea and change the current disadvantageous position will be a direct challenge for Chinese diplomacy in the future.

The author is an associate research fellow at the Institute of International Relations, Shanghai Academy of Social Sciences. opinion@globaltimes.com.cn

Time to use rules well in maritime disputes - OP-ED - Globaltimes.cn

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## bolo

Krueger said:


> Global Times | 2013-10-7
> By Li Kaisheng
> 
> Common sense tells us that major powers usually predominate in the game of international politics. However, among the claimants in the South China Sea issue, the Philippines, a much smaller and less powerful nation than China, continues to provoke and seems to take the initiative in recent years by raising various complaints against China on this issue.
> 
> It did not only provoke the tension on Huangyan Island in April 2012, but repeatedly forced the South China Sea issue into the agendas of some meetings attended by ASEAN countries.
> 
> Earlier this year, Manila intentionally and unilaterally handed the issue to the UN arbitral tribunal, asking for a magnification of the issue, and the arbitration is still up in the air.
> 
> Recently its navy claimed that they were talking about the possibility of removing the concrete blocks on Huangyan Island, allegedly installed by China.
> 
> Similar cases, small but perennial, are too many to list. China has been upholding a much tougher attitude in the last couple of years, but its current position still seems on the defensive.
> 
> The current situation is partly caused by the two nations' foreign policies. China is still under the influence of its long-lasting policy of "hiding one's capacities and biding one's time," while the Philippines is becoming more provocative under the Benigno Aquino III administration.
> 
> In the political sphere of East and Southeast Asia, being "small and weak" is not a disadvantage, but an advantage for smaller powers under some special circumstances.
> 
> The reason why the Philippines can translate its small size and weak strength into an advantage comes from the particularity of the maritime disputes in East and Southeast Asia.
> 
> Although the South China Sea issue remains a traditional security issue whose solution largely depends on national strength and military power, often it is the power of rules instead of strength and force that plays an important role.
> 
> From the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea to the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea or the envisaged Code of Conduct in the South China Sea, whoever makes the rules and uses them well will take the initiative in the game.
> 
> As long as the smaller countries have a good command of diplomatic skills and a profound knowledge of the rules, they will be hardly outmatched by the major powers.
> 
> The Philippines has also been given a fail-safe mechanism by the US, so that when diplomacy does not work, the US will have its back.
> 
> Washington and Manila have a long-standing military alliance, and US President Barack Obama's "pivot to Asia" policy has also stimulated Manila's confidence to roll up its sleeves.
> 
> Manila knows that as long as Washington's core interests can be guaranteed, the US will never engage in a fight with China just for the sake of the Philippines.
> 
> Nonetheless, Manila has been aware that although military confrontation with China is doomed, it is very likely to occupy the high ground of public opinion and perceived morality.
> 
> When international disputes break out, the international community usually shows sympathy to the disadvantaged party, even to the extent that the rights and wrongs of the issue will be ignored. Major powers are often labeled as hegemonies and bullies, and the smaller ones as victims.
> 
> What's more, in the eyes of Westerners, the Philippines is a democracy while China is a so-called communist "autocracy." This disparity adds weight to Manila's claim.
> 
> The more sympathy the Philippines gets, the more accusations China will have to face.
> 
> *Although China has started to resort to multiple strategies to deal with the Philippines' provocations, it still remains the disadvantageous side, and some of its decisive actions even backfired, making the Philippines acquire more sympathy and support from the international community. *
> 
> Given such circumstances, how to make wise use of rules in the South China Sea and change the current disadvantageous position will be a direct challenge for Chinese diplomacy in the future.
> 
> The author is an associate research fellow at the Institute of International Relations, Shanghai Academy of Social Sciences. opinion@globaltimes.com.cn
> 
> Time to use rules well in maritime disputes - OP-ED - Globaltimes.cn



First of all, strong countries do not care what other countries think. Maybe China isn't as strong as US make them to be. Just like an Alpha male, they do what they want and when they want regardless of what others think.

Second, CCP has the worse PR people working for them. Americans killed over 2 million Vietnamese and Vietnamese still love Americans long time. America dropped two atom bombs in Japan, Japs love America. Killed millions of Koreans during Korean war and South Koreans love Americans. It's time for China to take some PR lessons from US.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## GR!FF!N

bolo said:


> First of all, strong countries do not care what other countries think. Maybe China isn't as strong as US make them to be. Just like an Alpha male, they do what they want and when they want regardless of what others think.
> 
> *Second, CCP has the worse PR people working for them. Americans killed over 2 million Vietnamese and Vietnamese still love Americans long time. America dropped two atom bombs in Japan, Japs love America. Killed millions of Koreans during Korean war and South Koreans love Americans. It's time for China to take some PR lessons from US.*



 

some logic indeed..by the way,CCP's tyrannical rule killed around 30-40 million during a great leap as well as cultural revolution..Chinese love CCP for that..don't you agree???

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Kolaps

Everyone know...it's not the Philippine nor Japanese who are aggressive.

It's US.

And somehow...it's not North Korea nor South Korea. Even not Taiwan and HK too.

I just want to say, EAST ASIAN are a bunch of IDIOTS!


----------



## Zero_wing

bolo said:


> First of all, strong countries do not care what other countries think. Maybe China isn't as strong as US make them to be. Just like an Alpha male, they do what they want and when they want regardless of what others think.
> 
> Second, CCP has the worse PR people working for them. Americans killed over 2 million Vietnamese and Vietnamese still love Americans long time. America dropped two atom bombs in Japan, Japs love America. Killed millions of Koreans during Korean war and South Koreans love Americans. It's time for China to take some PR lessons from US.



Wow so protect our waters is working for the Americans nice lies comrade



Kolaps said:


> Everyone know...it's not the Philippine nor Japanese who are aggressive.
> 
> It's US.
> 
> And somehow...it's not North Korea nor South Korea. Even not Taiwan and HK too.
> 
> I just want to say, EAST ASIAN are a bunch of IDIOTS!



Correction everyone knows china is the ONLY AGGRESSOR here no one but china so stop making $hit up


----------



## Zero_wing

bolo said:


> when one kisses white *** expect shitty breath.



blah blah so uncivilized


----------



## Bob Ong

I think China wanted to have mind games with us thinking that a small country like ours would fall like a piece of paper. When the result of the arbitrary is out in Philippines' favor then whatever the Philippine government decides to do in West Philippine Sea will be done lawfully and democratically. Philippines will then be able to defend its sovereignty without fear of condemnation from the international community. Philippines must not delay the approval of allowing access to U.S., Japan and other allies. The sooner this get done, the better for Philippines national security and interest.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

Groundbreaking ceremonies held recently at HPS and WCS for the buildings of 6 3000-ton class fishery law enforcement vessels&#65306;







All are with electric propulsion system&#65288;EPS&#65289;&#65292;indicating that the next generation of PLAN FFGs are to use similar military grade EPS&#12290;

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

comrade cirr, this thread is about SC Sea, and not about promoting China´s ship building industry. Pls refrain from advertising.

thank you.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Fsjal

China will only stop their aggression if everyone agrees to work together.

But no, no one wants to work together. Instead, their is an arms race between China and Philippines, although China is decades ahead.

If everyone stops their rhetoric behavior, then this issue would be solved much more easily.


----------



## Zero_wing

Fsjal said:


> China will only stop their aggression if everyone agrees to work together.
> 
> But no, no one wants to work together. Instead, their is an arms race between China and Philippines, although China is decades ahead.
> 
> If everyone stops their rhetoric behavior, then this issue would be solved much more easily.



Wow what true citizen of china so full of it


----------



## xunzi

The author makes some good points. It is human nature to favor the underdog in any dispute. China PR is still a young child and needs to learn a lot from the US media manipulation of public sentiment. However because of our political system, it limits our ability to maximize PR strength like the US. That is not to say we can't improve our PR image.


----------



## Zero_wing

xunzi said:


> The author makes some good points. It is human nature to favor the underdog in any dispute. China PR is still a young child and needs to learn a lot from the US media manipulation of public sentiment. However because of our political system, it limits our ability to maximize PR strength like the US. That is not to say we can't improve our PR image.



Well what we all expect on people controlled by there government hahahahahahaha


----------



## Destro

Zero_wing said:


> Well what we all expect on people controlled by there government hahahahahahaha



Shut your mouth Pinoy. Getting tired of your anti-China rants. We are a peace loving nation with peace loving people. We are the good guys fighting against the bad guys (Japan, US, Philippines, Vietnam, India). Good guys always end up winning. We stand for peace and never seek hegemony.


----------



## bolo

GR!FF!N said:


> some logic indeed..by the way,CCP's tyrannical rule killed around 30-40 million during a great leap as well as cultural revolution..Chinese love CCP for that..don't you agree???



i would like to educate you on real Chinese history instead of western pov on Chinese history but i do not like to make indians smarter.


----------



## GR!FF!N

bolo said:


> i would like to educate you on real Chinese history instead of western pov on Chinese history but i do not like to make indians smarter.



and we don't need CCP stuff..well,you can hope that I know more history about China than some Chinese trolls here as I view China as a fascinating and great country,not something to be treated so badly,neither domestically,nor in international arenas..


----------



## TheNoob

i dont really get it.

Why still love and side with the thing that killed the most of you in the past?

its just like giving them a free BJ to make them not to do it again.....


----------



## Krueger

*President Benigno Aquino III on Wednesday, October 9, echoed a common position among countries on the South China Sea disputes: &#8220;Follow the rule of law.&#8221;*

His message sounded conventional, except that, for Aquino, following the rule of law involves a move that China strongly rejects. He referred to the unprecedented case that the Philippines filed against China before a United Nations tribunal.

In a statement for the 23rd Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) Summit in Brunei, the President said the Philippines' case against China is &#8220;anchored on international law.&#8221;

*&#8220;Clearly: Our development as a region cannot be realized in an international environment where the rule of law does not exist. Thus, the recognition of the rule of law ensures that every member state&#8217;s interest is upheld and respected,&#8221;* Aquino said, without explicitly hitting Beijing.

He added: &#8220;In the context of intertwining interests in the sea known by many names &#8211; which is west of the Philippines, east of Vietnam, north of Malaysia, south of China &#8211; the challenge that confronts one is a challenge that confronts all.

&#8220;This sea known by many names, a problem now, presents an opportunity for ASEAN and all other parties to collectively exercise the observance of the rule of law,&#8221; he said.

*Aquino's statement is likely to agitate Beijing, which in 2012 called Aquino &#8220;rude&#8221; for bringing up the Philippines' maritime dispute with China in an ASEAN meeting.*

China detests the &#8220;internationalization&#8221; of South China Sea disputes, and prefers bilateral talks with each of the countries involved. It finds the UN case unacceptable because it involves a third party.

The Philippines, on the other hand, pursues its case against China after it said it &#8220;had exhausted almost all political and diplomatic avenues for a peaceful settlement of the dispute.&#8221;

Chinese Premier Li Keqiang, on the other hand, on Wednesday called for a "South China Sea a sea of peace, friendship, and cooperation."

"A peaceful South China Sea is a blessing for all," Li told leaders during the ASEAN Summit.






*'What better gift?'*

*In veiled criticism of China, Aquino also urged ASEAN and China to keep the &#8220;status quo&#8221; since having crafted the Declaration on the Conduct (DOC) of Parties in the South China Sea in 2002.*

He brought this up after the Philippines accused China of building concrete facilities in the disputed Panatag (Scarborough) Shoal &#8211; a claim China has denied.

The President cited paragraph 5 of the DOC, which states: &#8220;The parties undertake to exercise self-restraint in the conduct of activities that would complicate or escalate disputes and affect peace and stability including, among others, refraining from action of inhabiting on the presently uninhabited islands, reefs, shoals, cays, and other features and to handle their differences in a constructive manner.&#8221;

*Aquino pushed for the &#8220;expeditious conclusion&#8221; of the ASEAN-China Code of Conduct (COC) on the South China Sea.*

The COC &#8220;would guide all parties in creating conditions for the peaceful and durable settlement of disputes,&#8221; according to a primer by the University of the Philippines' Asian Center and its Institute for Maritime Affairs and Law of the Sea.

Without a COC, a DOC on the South China Sea is in place. &#8220;While the Declaration is not legally binding, it commits the parties to consultative and peaceful processes of dispute settlement,&#8221; the UP primer said.

Aquino on Wednesday said he is &#8220;pleased&#8221; that the first official ASEAN-China consultations on the COC took place in Suzhou, China, in September.

He said: &#8220;All parties &#8211; both ASEAN and non-ASEAN, claimant or non-claimant &#8211; have stated: Follow the rule of law. In 2002, we tried to come up with a Code of Conduct. We failed. We came up with guidelines that became the DOC. What better gift to all our peoples than to follow all these sincere words by meaningful actions?&#8221;






*'Stick to dialogue'*

China, for its part, upheld its long-standing position on South China Sea disputes &#8211; to avoid &#8220;internationalization&#8221; and to promote dialogue.

In a written interview with ASEAN media on Tuesday, October 8, Li said: &#8220;The Chinese government is firmly committed to the path of peaceful development, and is unshakable in its resolve to uphold national sovereignty and territorial integrity.

&#8220;China and ASEAN countries should stick to dialogue and cooperation and effectively safeguard peace and stability in the South China Sea,&#8221; he said.

Li also pushed for adherence to the DOC. He said China, after all, rises in stature peacefully.

&#8220;We have no reason to change our path of peaceful development. China's cultural values uphold the principle of 'not doing to others what you don't want others to do to you,'&#8221; he explained.

&#8220;China will in no way follow the old pattern of 'seeking hegemony after becoming strong.'&#8221; &#8211; with reports from Agence France-Presse

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## sweetgrape

Its hair is very little, and face is a little ugly, it need hair transplant and face-lift, will be liked by female something more.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## sweetouch

Kolaps said:


> Everyone know...it's not the Philippine nor Japanese who are aggressive.
> 
> It's US.
> 
> And somehow...it's not North Korea nor South Korea. Even not Taiwan and HK too.
> 
> I just want to say, EAST ASIAN are a bunch of IDIOTS!


I think the US is preparing for war against China in the future even if they are still trading and borrowing from them.


----------



## xunzi

Zero_wing said:


> Well what we all expect on people controlled by there government hahahahahahaha


You Pinoy are an annoying brat. China as an adult was trying to make a living (ie, our fishermen fishing there) and you Navy, out of nowhere, trying to arrest an adult doing his jobs. So we **** you on the head. You fall down and going around crying like a baby. No amount of our attempt to cool you down works.. "Oh big bad China is cocking my head!"... Well you deserve it considered you instigated and annoyed an adult trying to make a living.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Fsjal

xunzi said:


> You Pinoy are an annoying brat. China as an adult was trying to make a living (ie, our fishermen fishing there) and you Navy, out of nowhere, trying to arrest an adult doing his jobs. So we **** you on the head. You fall down and going around crying like a baby. No amount of our attempt to cool you down works.. "Oh big bad China is cocking my head!"... Well you deserve it considered you instigated and annoyed an adult trying to make a living.



Aquino wanted to flex his "muscles" to impress Uncle Sam. 

It's a sad truth.


----------



## Fsjal

One does not simply say "follow the rule" when himself isn't following the rules itself.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## killerjo

sweetgrape said:


> Its hair is very little, and face is a little ugly, it need hair transplant and face-lift, will be liked by female something more.



LOL


----------



## GR!FF!N

Fsjal said:


> One does not simply say "follow the rule" when himself isn't following the rules itself.



what rules of Sea Philippines failed to follow??


----------



## Genesis

Srinivas said:


> In chinese language Patent laws, fake, piracy and International maritime laws do not translate well and are like no meaning ......



Don't pretend that India doesn't copy, you just can't do it on our level. FBI goes after drug lords not dealers, dealers are sometimes looked the otherway, but the dealer is breaking the law just the same.

Piracy is a problem everywhere. Sweden has piracy problems, a lot of sites are based there. Americans pirate, so do everyone. You are telling me you never DLed a show or movie? 

There are lots of legal sites in China that stream movies and tv shows for FREE, legally. 

As to international law, those are laws not made by China, why should we obey them. Who ever made it obey it. I know you guys are comfortable under a foreign law, but we, not so much.


For all your copy and crap, don't pretend India is a hub of innovation or money, so either India has nothing or most is cheap copied crap.

Cause new expensive stuff isn't in India.


As to this Aquino, he forgets China has never been a colony. Not as comfortable following your American master's laws.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## freshmint

sweetgrape said:


> Its hair is very little, and face is a little ugly, it need hair transplant and face-lift, will be liked by female something more.




BBC News - Fighting grey: Why do China's leaders dye their hair?

Why do China's leaders dye their hair?

Just for zen: How China's leaders dye their hair black, not out of vanity but because they are so terrified of standing out | Mail Online

No comments on the severely slant eyes of Chinese Maoists.

and what about the physical structure of Chines leaders???

Animal protein is highly exaggerated. Example Chinese Maoists who eat so much animal protein everyday.


----------



## Srinivas

Let me put a simple question to you mate.

Did china not signed UNCLOS which are drafted by UN?

If yes why not respect them?





Genesis said:


> Don't pretend that India doesn't copy, you just can't do it on our level. FBI goes after drug lords not dealers, dealers are sometimes looked the otherway, but the dealer is breaking the law just the same.
> 
> Piracy is a problem everywhere. Sweden has piracy problems, a lot of sites are based there. Americans pirate, so do everyone. You are telling me you never DLed a show or movie?
> 
> There are lots of legal sites in China that stream movies and tv shows for FREE, legally.
> 
> As to international law, those are laws not made by China, why should we obey them. Who ever made it obey it. I know you guys are comfortable under a foreign law, but we, not so much.
> 
> 
> For all your copy and crap, don't pretend India is a hub of innovation or money, so either India has nothing or most is cheap copied crap.
> 
> Cause new expensive stuff isn't in India.
> 
> 
> As to this Aquino, he forgets China has never been a colony. Not as comfortable following your American master's laws.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Genesis

Srinivas said:


> Let me put a simple question to you mate.
> 
> Did china not signed UNCLOS which are drafted by UN?
> 
> If yes why not respect them?



You got Princes that signed away their land and became British India, why did you go Independent? What's different between then and now?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Srinivas

Genesis said:


> You got Princes that signed away their land and became British India, why did you go Independent? What's different between then and now?



India was colonized in the past, But the present situation is Indians controlling UK companies by acquiring prestigious British brands. This is like reverse colonization from India what British East India company did to India.


----------



## GR!FF!N

Genesis said:


> You got Princes that signed away their land and became British India, why did you go Independent? What's different between then and now?



we can kick England's a$$ now in cricket field,which was not possible that time..LOL..

we pity you guys,those who never know what a democracy is..those who are reeling under a tyrannical regime,whose every word,every movement is being monitored by millions of CCP bots..


----------



## Genesis

Srinivas said:


> India was colonized in the past, But the present situation is Indians controlling UK companies by acquiring prestigious British brands. This is like reverse colonization from India what British East India company did to India.



I'm not talking about that, I'm just saying, you were once "cool" with being colonized, what changed?
@GR!FF!N

You pity us, ok, if most of your population can spare a moment of their constant struggle of simply living, to pity us, that's cool with me.

You got less per capita than Sudan, that place is hunted by wars at all times. When you are poorer than a war torn nation, you got bigger problems than democracy.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## killerjo

Again India vs China started... 

Bhaion in chiinion ko jeene kyu nahi dete tum log


----------



## Srinivas

Nobody is cool with colonization in India, this is one of the darkest periods of our history and culture.

The difference between African nations and India is, India is moving forward where as African nations are not yet.



Genesis said:


> I'm not talking about that, I'm just saying, you were once "cool" with being colonized, what changed?
> @GR!FF!N
> 
> You pity us, ok, if most of your population can spare a moment of their constant struggle of simply living, to pity us, that's cool with me.
> 
> You got less per capita than Sudan, that place is hunted by wars at all times. When you are poorer than a war torn nation, you got bigger problems than democracy.


----------



## Genesis

Srinivas said:


> The difference between African nations and India is, India is moving forward where as African nations are not yet.



That was not at you but the other guy.

Anyways, it's the same story of India colonization. First India was weak, colonized. China was weak, so we signed. Then you became independent, cause British can no longer control India and guess what changed between China then and now.

IT wasn't a fair law then and it isn't now.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## grandtiger

Good job Aquino. World community needs to watch out for these chinis, cheating and not following the law seems to run in their blood.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## freshmint

Genesis said:


> You got Princes that signed away their land and became British India, why did you go Independent? What's different between then and now?



India was a colony only in name. the British never dared interfere with their lives or dictate where they could live or not unlike in China where a mass murderer rapist like Mao is worshiped and nobody can ask questions about what happened to 50-70-100 million+ poor helpless Chinese who died from 1935-1976 due to his policies and to fulfill his grand wishes.

Scholars Continue to Reveal Mao's Monstrosities

Twentieth Century Atlas - Death Tolls

Mao's Great Leap Forward 'killed 45 million in four years' - News - Books - The Independent

The Chinese Maoists will never go unpunished for these heinous crimes against the Chinese people.

Mao lived in palatial villas and ate lavishly like Chinese emperors while the poor helpless people starved to death.

What is different in your condition then under Mao and now when you can be forcibly relocated anytime against your wishes or put into labor camp without anybody knowing about you???


----------



## Hafizzz

freshmint said:


> India was a colony only in name. the British never dared interfere with their lives or dictate where they could live or not unlike in China where a mass murderer rapist like Mao is worshiped and nobody can ask questions about what happened to 50-70-100 million+ poor helpless Chinese who died from 1935-1976 due to his policies and to fulfill his grand wishes.
> 
> Scholars Continue to Reveal Mao's Monstrosities
> 
> Twentieth Century Atlas - Death Tolls
> 
> Mao's Great Leap Forward 'killed 45 million in four years' - News - Books - The Independent
> 
> The Chinese Maoists will never go unpunished for these heinous crimes against the Chinese people.
> 
> Mao lived in palatial villas and ate lavishly like Chinese emperors while the poor helpless people starved to death.
> 
> What is different in your condition then under Mao and now when you can be forcibly relocated anytime against your wishes or put into labor camp without anybody knowing about you???



Just like India is a "democracy" in name only ?

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Genesis

freshmint said:


> India was a colony only in name. the British never dared interfere with their lives or dictate where they could live or not unlike in China where a mass murderer rapist like Mao is worshiped and nobody can ask questions about what happened to 50-70-100 million+ poor helpless Chinese who died from 1935-1976 due to his policies and to fulfill his grand wishes.
> 
> Scholars Continue to Reveal Mao's Monstrosities
> 
> Twentieth Century Atlas - Death Tolls
> 
> Mao's Great Leap Forward 'killed 45 million in four years' - News - Books - The Independent
> 
> The Chinese Maoists will never go unpunished for these heinous crimes against the Chinese people.
> 
> Mao lived in palatial villas and ate lavishly like Chinese emperors while the poor helpless people starved to death.
> 
> What is different in your condition then under Mao and now when you can be forcibly relocated anytime against your wishes or put into labor camp without anybody knowing about you???



Funny you don't bring up the Soviets where practically the same crap happened, and for that little population, pretty much the same scale.

The Chinese maoists have already been purged, by those that survived the purge by Maoists, what do you think Deng and his people did when they took power.

Mao is actually not a spender, he isn't like those African dudes, not to say he is better, but money isn't a goal much like Stalin. They are true communists.



The labor camps are prisons, actual prisons for criminals. A lot of Chinese people support it. We dont' like this compassion crap. When we do take into consideration of compassion, people riot for harsher sentence. I can show proof. 

As to what's different? 1950-60s we were worse than India, 70s we were still a tad worse, 80s we were about same, 90s, we got a little better, 2000s, we got a lot better.

Today? We got better social welfare, better luxury goods, better living conditions, better infrastructure, better everything. Though the only thing that's still the same? We are about as corrupt as you, but your democracy should make up for it right? OR at least according to some, democracy makes corruption almost desirable.

So you ask what's different? We are much much better than you economically, that's what.


----------



## BigDaddyWatch

Aquino need to follow the law himself before lecturing others and stop claiming territory that is not his own. Didn't the Philipinnes and Malaysia had a altercation earlier this year ? Wasn't that about territorial disputes ? Didn't Philipinnes coast guard shot dead a Taiwanese fisherman earlier this year in "disputed" waters. That issue still hasn't been resolved yet.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## killerjo

Genesis said:


> Funny you don't bring up the Soviets where practically the same crap happened, and for that little population, pretty much the same scale.
> 
> The Chinese maoists have already been purged, by those that survived the purge by Maoists, what do you think Deng and his people did when they took power.
> 
> Mao is actually not a spender, he isn't like those African dudes, not to say he is better, but money isn't a goal much like Stalin. They are true communists.
> 
> 
> 
> The labor camps are prisons, actual prisons for criminals. A lot of Chinese people support it. We dont' like this compassion crap. When we do take into consideration of compassion, people riot for harsher sentence. I can show proof.
> 
> As to what's different? 1950-60s we were worse than India, 70s we were still a tad worse, 80s we were about same, 90s, we got a little better, 2000s, we got a lot better.
> 
> Today? We got better social welfare, better luxury goods, better living conditions, better infrastructure, better everything. Though the only thing that's still the same? We are about as corrupt as you, but your democracy should make up for it right? OR at least according to some, democracy makes corruption almost desirable.
> 
> So you ask what's different? We are much much better than you economically, that's what.


China is better than India... who the hell is disagreeing to it?? 

Please stop comparing China with India.. You should be comparing yourself with USA.


----------



## GR!FF!N

Genesis said:


> I'm not talking about that, I'm just saying, you were once "cool" with being colonized, what changed?
> @GR!FF!N
> 
> You pity us, ok, if most of your population can spare a moment of their constant struggle of simply living, to pity us, that's cool with me.
> 
> You got less per capita than Sudan, that place is hunted by wars at all times. When you are poorer than a war torn nation, you got bigger problems than democracy.



see,told you..you guys only understand Per Capita,GDP,Hunger Index etc..but what about Freedom of speech,one pillar of the Democracy??do you want to live in a world where there is every basic need will be fulfilled,but there'll not be any freedom???seriously you should watch one movie that I'll suggest,OLDBOY..

Oldboy (2003 film) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

one of the best asian movie ever..you might learn what freedom is..

as for hunger and other index in which Indian failed,do the CCP already removed those from China???we have massive program to provide food,water,road,electricity,education,housing etc..may be within a decade,we'll almost eradicate these problems,as you know,within a decade,we lifted 12% of our population(actually its more than that,cause huge boom of population within a decade) or some 140 million people from poverty even in massive corruption and within another decade,we hope to lift over 200 million.these aren't doctored or face saving reports.but at least these poor people makes their own govt,have a say how to formulate their own well being and have right to express their own opinion against govt,not like you guys who are going to choose your own govt ever..


----------



## Genesis

GR!FF!N said:


> see,told you..you guys only understand Per Capita,GDP,Hunger Index etc..but what about Freedom of speech,one pillar of the Democracy??do you want to live in a world where there is every basic need will be fulfilled,but there'll not be any freedom???seriously you should watch one movie that I'll suggest,OLDBOY..
> 
> Oldboy (2003 film) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> one of the best asian movie ever..you might learn what freedom is..
> 
> as for hunger and other index in which Indian failed,do the CCP already removed those from China???we have massive program to provide poor food,water,road,electricity,education,housing etc..may be within a decade,we'll almost eradicate these problems,as you know,within a decade,we lifted 12% of our population(actually its more than that,cause huge boom of population within a decade) or some 140 million people from poverty even in massive corruption and within another decade,we hope to lift over 200 million.these aren't doctored or face saving reports.but at least these poor people makes their own govt,have a say how to formulate their own well being and have right to express their own opinion against govt,not like you guys who are going to choose your own govt ever..



According to you a bum is the best profession, can do whatever he want and money not important.

Also don't compare India to China in reducing poverty, India may be second, but it's not a close second.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Fsjal

GR!FF!N said:


> what rules of Sea Philippines failed to follow??



They shot a Taiwanese fishermen. Do you think it's fair to shoot a fisherman???

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Fsjal

Chinese Premier Li Keqiang attends China-ASEAN summit CCTV News - CNTV English

_In Brunei, 23rd Summit of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations is underway in the capital Bandar Seri Begawan. Chinese Premier Li Keqiang is attending the summit and expressed China&#8217;s views on promoting cooperation and development in the region.
Ten years of strategic partnership between China and ASEAN.
At the 16th China-ASEAN Summit, the two sides have discussed deepening cooperation in a number of fields.

The main topics include developing the China-ASEAN free trade area, setting up an Asian infrastructure investment bank and expanding regional maritime cooperation.
"From 2002 to 2012, trade volume between China and ASEAN countries grew by an average rate of 23.6 percent. Last year, trade volume reached 400 billion US dollars. China has become ASEAN&#8217;s largest trading partner," Li Keqiang said.
While trade is high in the agenda, the long-seething territorial disputes in South China Sea are also being discussed.
"Disputes in South China Sea should be addressed through negotiations among countries directly concerned. China and ASEAN countries are willing to maintain peace and stability in the South China Sea. Relevant countries should work for joint development before these disputes are resolved," Li Keqiang said.
Brunei is the first leg of Premier Li Keqiang&#8217;s Southeast Asia trip. He will also visit Thailand and Vietnam._

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Fattyacids

Srinivas said:


> Nobody is cool with colonization in India, this is one of the darkest periods of our history and culture.
> 
> The difference between African nations and India is, India is moving forward where as African nations are not yet.



You were proud to be British Raj, English became the elite language and your constitution is written in English.

No really, your GDP per capita is lower than some african countries, poverty level higher.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Fattyacids

GR!FF!N said:


> see,told you..you guys only understand Per Capita,GDP,Hunger Index etc..but what about Freedom of speech,one pillar of the Democracy??do you want to live in a world where there is every basic need will be fulfilled,but there'll not be any freedom???seriously you should watch one movie that I'll suggest,OLDBOY..
> 
> Oldboy (2003 film) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> one of the best asian movie ever..you might learn what freedom is..
> 
> as for hunger and other index in which Indian failed,do the CCP already removed those from China???we have massive program to provide food,water,road,electricity,education,housing etc..may be within a decade,we'll almost eradicate these problems,as you know,within a decade,we lifted 12% of our population(actually its more than that,cause huge boom of population within a decade) or some 140 million people from poverty even in massive corruption and within another decade,we hope to lift over 200 million.these aren't doctored or face saving reports.but at least these poor people makes their own govt,have a say how to formulate their own well being and have right to express their own opinion against govt,not like you guys who are going to choose your own govt ever..



Which version are you referring to?


----------



## Fattyacids

self delete


----------



## Namin

> Chinese Premier Li Keqiang attends China-ASEAN summit CCTV News - CNTV English
> 
> In Brunei, 23rd Summit of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations is underway in the capital Bandar Seri Begawan. Chinese Premier Li Keqiang is attending the summit and expressed China&#8217;s views on promoting cooperation and development in the region.
> Ten years of strategic partnership between China and ASEAN.
> At the 16th China-ASEAN Summit, the two sides have discussed deepening cooperation in a number of fields.
> 
> The main topics include developing the China-ASEAN free trade area, setting up an Asian infrastructure investment bank and expanding regional maritime cooperation.
> "From 2002 to 2012, trade volume between China and ASEAN countries grew by an average rate of 23.6 percent. Last year, trade volume reached 400 billion US dollars. China has become ASEAN&#8217;s largest trading partner," Li Keqiang said.
> While trade is high in the agenda, the long-seething territorial disputes in South China Sea are also being discussed.
> "Disputes in South China Sea should be addressed through negotiations among countries directly concerned. China and ASEAN countries are willing to maintain peace and stability in the South China Sea. Relevant countries should work for joint development before these disputes are resolved," Li Keqiang said.
> Brunei is the first leg of Premier Li Keqiang&#8217;s Southeast Asia trip. He will also visit Thailand and Vietnam.




It&#8217;s just diplomatic statement. Look at Chinese history before hearing from Chinese leaders:
1.	Chinese people loved Qin Shi Huang although he killed all Confucius students and burnt all their books, which teach Chinese to keep promise. However, this man united China and Chinese people accept the deal.
2.	Chinese people loved Liu Bang although he killed all of his loyal and contributed subordinates instead of giving them prosperous life as he promised. Chinese people accept the deal because they lived well under his dynasty.
3.	Chinese people loved Li Shi Min of Tang Dynasty although he deceived and killed his brothers. However, he successfully expanded China, Chinese people accept the deal.
4.	Chinese people hated Song Dynasty founder although he is ethical but lost many benefits to other kingdoms in north China.
5.	Chinese people loved Zhu Yuanzhang although he killed all of his loyal and contributed subordinates instead of giving them prosperous life as he promised. However, Chinese people accept the deal because his dynasty regained grounds lost by Song Dynasty.
6.	Chinese people loved Qing dynasty founder although he killed half of Han at that time. However, Chinese have biggest area under Qing Empire, Chinese people accept the deal.
7.	About respected Mao, founder of PRC. His subordinates respected him but waited until his death to kill his wife. Anyway, Chinese people should continuously respect him as a hero of liberating China.
*From those reasons, we can see that PRC Chinese leaders have to gain benefits for Chinese because their people don&#8217;t care that they keep promises or not but they must make benefits for Chinese. Otherwise, not needing China enemy, Chinese people will take them down first. Americans just don&#8217;t understand Chinese as they said Chinese people are brain-washed. Chinese people are exactly the ones who take full control of China. American lost in Vietnam because they did not understand Vietnamese, I&#8217;m afraid that will repeat again in the case of China. Don&#8217;t need to blame PRC government leaders, actually they are ethical persons, but they must play by the rule of Chinese people. That rule can be seen clearly in Chinese history.*


----------



## NiceGuy

Namin said:


> Its just diplomatic statement. Look at Chinese history before hearing from Chinese leaders:
> 1.	Chinese people loved Qin Shi Huang although he killed all Confucius students and burnt all their books, which teach Chinese to keep promise. However, this man united China and Chinese people accept the deal.
> 2.	Chinese people loved Liu Bang although he killed all of his loyal and contributed subordinates instead of giving them prosperous life as he promised. Chinese people accept the deal because they lived well under his dynasty.
> 3.	Chinese people loved Li Shi Min of Tang Dynasty although he deceived and killed his brothers. However, he successfully expanded China, Chinese people accept the deal.
> 4.	Chinese people hated Song Dynasty founder although he is ethical but lost many benefits to other kingdoms in north China.
> 5.	Chinese people loved Zhu Yuanzhang although he killed all of his loyal and contributed subordinates instead of giving them prosperous life as he promised. However, Chinese people accept the deal because his dynasty regained grounds lost by Song Dynasty.
> 6.	Chinese people loved Qing dynasty founder although he killed half of Han at that time. However, Chinese have biggest area under Qing Empire, Chinese people accept the deal.
> 7.	About respected Mao, founder of PRC. His subordinates respected him but waited until his death to kill his wife. Anyway, Chinese people should continuously respect him as a hero of liberating China.
> *From those reasons, we can see that PRC Chinese leaders have to gain benefits for Chinese because their people dont care that they keep promises or not but they must make benefits for Chinese. Otherwise, not needing China enemy, Chinese people will take them down first. Americans just dont understand Chinese as they said Chinese people are brain-washed. Chinese people are exactly the ones who take full control of China. American lost in Vietnam because they did not understand Vietnamese, Im afraid that will repeat again in the case of China. Dont need to blame PRC government leaders, actually they are ethical persons, but they must play by the rule of Chinese people. That rule can be seen clearly in Chinese history.*


China is just a weak, coward but big mouth nation, all US need to do is just sent all best weapons and lots of money to support VN plus support VN to control Thailand, Sing in order to control Kra cannal and Malacca strait, then China will be a docile puppy for good


----------



## Srinivas

Just go through the entire thread and read my posts..



Fattyacids said:


> You were proud to be British Raj, English became the elite language and your constitution is written in English.
> 
> No really, your GDP per capita is lower than some african countries, poverty level higher.


----------



## bolo

rules by that you mean the white men's rules? No thanks. White men sign treaty that say Spratley belong to China after ww2, than they say no, it belongs to (name your country other than China). 

White men sign treaty with native Indians. Pure Native Indians no longer exist. 

About time China quit playing by white men's rules.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Namin

NiceGuy said:


> China is just a weak, coward but big mouth nation, all US need to do is just sent all best weapons and lots of money to support VN plus support VN to control Thailand, Sing in order to control Kra cannal and Malacca strait, then China will be a docile puppy for good



I supposed you lived in Vn but you are not communists ( I am communists although I am not the member of communist party). You and those people brain-washed by western media will lose if keep underestimating China. You didn't learn any thing from the spirit of General Giap " Don't underestimate any whole people who decided to stand up". Remember that our ancestors, Nguyen Trai and le loi, when they defeated Ming troops in Vn, the first thing they did was to prepare boats for them to return China. As I said, the whole Chinese people desired East Vietnam sea, don't blame PRC government. If you blame PRC government, you was tricked by US. And when you underestimate Chinese people, they actually are very happy about your stupidity. Vietnamese will not lose to China because we understand Chinese people well.


----------



## NiceGuy

Namin said:


> I supposed you lived in Vn but you are not communists ( I am communists although I am not the member of communist party). You and those people brain-washed by western media will lose if keep underestimating China. You didn't learn any thing from the spirit of General Giap " Don't underestimate any whole people who decided to stand up". Remember that our ancestors, Nguyen Trai and le loi, when they defeated Ming troops in Vn, the first thing they did was to prepare boats for them to return China. As I said, the whole Chinese people desired East Vietnam sea, don't blame PRC government. If you blame PRC government, you was tricked by US. And when you underestimate Chinese people, they actually are very happy about your stupidity. Vietnamese will not lose to China because we understand Chinese people well.


Then do u remember what our Emperor Nguyen Hue said abt China ?? Do u think he underestimate China ??


> Ng&#432;&#7901;i ch&#7871;t là quân xâm l&#432;&#7907;c nhà Thanh. Ng&#432;&#7901;i làm gi&#7895; cho h&#7885; là nh&#7919;ng ng&#432;&#7901;i làm nên chi&#7871;n th&#7855;ng th&#7847;n t&#7889;c n&#259;m K&#7927; D&#7853;u [1789]. Vi&#7879;t Nam S&#7917; l&#432;&#7907;c c&#7911;a Tr&#7847;n Tr&#7885;ng Kim chép: "H&#7897;i quân &#7903; núi Tam &#272;i&#7879;p ngày 20 tháng ch&#7841;p n&#259;m M&#7853;u Thân [1788], vua Quang Trung nói v&#7899;i ba quân: "Chúng nó sang phen này là mua cái ch&#7871;t &#273;ó thôi. Ta ra chuy&#7871;n này thân coi vi&#7879;c quân &#273;ánh gi&#7919;, &#273;ã &#273;&#7883;nh m&#7865;o r&#7889;i, *&#273;u&#7893;i quân Tàu v&#7873; ch&#7859;ng qua ch&#7881; trong m&#432;&#417;i ngày là xong vi&#7879;c*. Nh&#432;ng ch&#7881; ngh&#297; chúng là n&#432;&#7899;c l&#7899;n g&#7845;p m&#432;&#7901;i l&#7847;n n&#432;&#7899;c ta, sau khi chúng thua m&#7897;t tr&#7853;n r&#7891;i t&#7845;t chúng l&#7845;y làm x&#7845;u h&#7893;, l&#7841;i m&#432;u báo thù, nh&#432; th&#7871; thì &#273;ánh nhau mãi không thôi, dân ta h&#7841;i nhi&#7873;u, ta sao n&#7905; th&#7871;. V&#7853;y &#273;ánh xong tr&#7853;n này, ta ph&#7843;i nh&#7901; Thì Nhi&#7879;m dùng l&#7901;i nói cho khéo &#273;&#7875; &#273;ình ch&#7881; vi&#7879;c chi&#7871;n tranh. &#272;&#7907;i m&#432;&#417;i n&#259;m n&#7919;a, n&#432;&#7899;c ta d&#432;&#7905;ng &#273;&#432;&#7907;c s&#7913;c phú c&#432;&#7901;ng r&#7891;i, thì ta không c&#7847;n ph&#7843;i s&#7907; chúng n&#7919;a".1



Seem like u need to grow up before u can post some useful comments here.


----------



## Namin

NiceGuy said:


> Then do u remember what our Emperor Nguyen Hue said abt China ?? Do u think he underestimate China ??
> 
> 
> Seem like u need to grow up before u can post some useful comments here.


You confused here. Qing Empire at that time didnot represent Han people (or whole Chinese people). That's why it's weak and lost to Westerners. Nguyen Hue didnot underestimate Chinese people. *Situation of Han people at that time is the same with Vietnamese before Bach Dang victory*. 
You are the ones who still does not grow up. If you grew, you have to trust in human factors as Gen. Giap trusts, but not only in modern Western weapons. If you want to consider China weak. Wait until the day we can build modern weapons ourselves and don't have to buy old-fashioned weapons of Russia. As a mechanical engineer, I believed that day will come sooner or later.


----------



## S10

He sent ships to harass Chinese fishermen and got slapped. Now he wants to talk about law after getting thrown around? He lost his chance last year.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NiceGuy

Namin said:


> You confused here. Qing Empire at that time didnot represent Han people (or whole Chinese people). That's why it's weak and lost to Westerners. Nguyen Hue didnot underestimate Chinese people. *Situation of Han people at that time is the same with Vietnamese before Bach Dang victory*.


what do you mean ?? u mentioned to Le Loi, Nguyen Trai who fought against Ming troops, and suddenly, u said: "Situation of Han people at that time is the same with Vietnamese before Bach Dang victory" ???U mean : Ming dynasty was so stupid , so they let the Manchu to conquer them easily ?? 

btw: u claimed yourself as a communist, then do u know what is communist society and how to get there ??


----------



## Namin

NiceGuy said:


> what do you mean ?? u mentioned to Le Loi, Nguyen Trai who fought against Ming troops, and suddenly, u said: "Situation of Han people at that time is the same with Vietnamese before Bach Dang victory" ???U mean : Ming dynasty was so stupid , so they let the Manchu to conquer them easily ??
> 
> btw: u claimed yourself as a communist, then do u know what is communist society and how to get there ??



You can blame Ming dynasty, Qing dynasty (but it's not politely to say they are stupid). Because we, international communists, don't consider those dynasties as the true representative of their people. But please note that we respect labourers around the world including those in China. It's the same that we don't consider Nguyen Dynasty as true representative of Vietnam people.
btw: if u are not communists, I don't force to to change your ideology as well as I don't condemn your ideology. But I want to remind you that Vietnam communists are in the position to negotiate with Chinese communist because we are comrades. There is what called international friendship among communists. Chinese always respected their own faces, they consider negotiating with us because they don't want to be blamed as disrespecting international communism movement. 
If you were not communist, Chinese just ignore you easily. Because then you just represent a small nation. It's similar with the case of Syria, where America don't care about negotiating with them because america is a big nation. Then Chinese can say that you are not in the position that can negotiate with them. Although, I protest that kind of attitude towards small nation of big nations.
Anyway, I am a friendly communist, I respect your own ideology.


----------



## NiceGuy

Namin said:


> You can blame Ming dynasty, Qing dynasty (but it's not politely to say they are stupid). Because we, international communists, don't consider those dynasties as the true representative of their people. But please note that we respect labourers around the world including those in China. It's the same that we don't consider Nguyen Dynasty as true representative of Vietnam people.
> btw: if u are not communists, I don't force to to change your ideology as well as I don't condemn your ideology. But I want to remind you that Vietnam communists are in the position to negotiate with Chinese communist because we are comrades. There is what called international friendship among communists. Chinese always respected their own faces, they consider negotiating with us because they don't want to be blamed as disrespecting international communism movement.
> If you were not communist, Chinese just ignore you easily. Because then you just represent a small nation. It's similar with the case of Syria, where America don't care about negotiating with them because america is a big nation. Then Chinese can say that you are not in the position that can negotiate with them. Although, I protest that kind of attitude towards small nation of big nations.
> Anyway, I am a friendly communist, I respect your own ideology.



Problem is even our VN leader also dont know what exactly is communist society (coz no one ever come there), so why do u so pround of yourself as a communist when u can not define what is it ?? 

R u still too young to even understand what u say ??


----------



## Namin

I don't claim myself communist easily. I was educated with Communism and studied many communism book when I was at high school and university. I joined Ho chi Minh youth communist community long a ago. At least I paid time to study international politics but you even don't care about that. You just captured your scattered knowledge from Western media and internet. And you cam here with a trust in mind that you can defeat educated Chinese in debate. How snail you are! even you already grew old but you don't pay time to study, you still can not win any debate about international politics. How can I explain with you about the communist society when you don't understand any thing about communism or international politics?


NiceGuy said:


> Problem is even our VN leader also dont know what exactly is communist society (coz no one ever come there), so why do u so pround of yourself as a communist when u can not define what is it ??
> 
> R u still too young to even understand what u say ??


----------



## NiceGuy

Namin said:


> I don't claim myself communist easily. I was educated with Communism and studied many communism book when I was at high school and university. I joined Ho chi Minh youth communist community long a ago. At least I paid time to study international politics but you even don't care about that. You just captured your scattered knowledge from Western media and internet. And you cam here with a trust in mind that you can defeat educated Chinese in debate. How snail you are! even you already grew old but you don't pay time to study, you still can not win any debate about international politics. How can I explain with you about the communist society when you don't understand any thing about communism or international politics?


ok, you "study" alot abt communism, but the Truth is even our VN leaders also dont know how communist society look like , so can u know more than them after "study" (or being brain washed) alot ??

Can u name anyone in Vn know exactly how communist society look like ?? Mr Trong or Mr Dung ???


----------



## Soryu

Viet said:


> comrade cirr, this thread is about SC Sea, and not about promoting China´s ship building industry. Pls refrain from advertising.
> 
> thank you.



Maybe he is sale employer of China shipbuilding company, so he need to advertise for them if he want to sell those cheap products 

P/S: mà th&#7871; quái nào các &#273;&#7891;ng chí VN quay ra cãi nhau nh&#7881;.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## NiceGuy

Soryu said:


> Maybe he is sale employer of China shipbuilding company, so he need to advertise for them if he want to sell those cheap products
> 
> P/S: mà th&#7871; quái nào các &#273;&#7891;ng chí VN quay ra cãi nhau nh&#7881;.


I just help Namin to grow up , may be he's just 20 or 21 years old 

back to the topic


> The 23 rd ASEAN Summit and related meetings closed in Brunei&#8217;s capital city Bandar Seri Begawan on October 10, wrapping up the year Brunei plays ASEAN Chair.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During the summit and related meetings, ASEAN leaders focused their discussions on the formation of an ASEAN Community which is scheduled to be completed by 2015.
> 
> They voiced their support for building ASEAN&#8217;s post-2015 vision and agreed to boost regional linkage and connectivity and further deepen relations between the ten-member group and its partners while promoting the bloc&#8217;s central role and enhancing its contributions to peace, stability and development in the region.
> 
> ASEAN and its partners touched upon and proposed a range of practical measures in order to promote peace, stability, security and development cooperation in the region.
> 
> They unanimously agreed to continue prioritising cooperation in economics, trade, investment, natural disaster management, culture and education, and narrowing development gap.
> 
> They will work more closely with each other to handle non-traditional security challenges such as energy and food security, epidemics and climate change.
> 
> *The leaders also devoted much time to deliberating regional and international issues of mutual concern, including the East Sea question.*
> 
> *They stressed the significance of the maintenance of peace, security and stability in the region as well as the East Sea, the peaceful settlement of disputes, the observance of international law and the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law on the Sea, the full and efficient implementation of the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the East Sea, and the early achievement of a Code of Conduct in the East Sea.*
> 
> At the end of the meetings, ASEAN leaders and their partners approved a spate of important documents, including the Declaration on the ASEAN Community&#8217;s Post-2015 Vision, the Declaration on Youth Entrepreneurship and Employment, the Declaration on Strengthening Social Protection, the Declaration on the Elimination of Violence Against Women and Elimination of Violence Against Children, the Declaration on Enhancing Cooperation in Disaster Management, the Declaration on Non-communicable Diseases and the Declaration on the 8 th East Asia Summit on Food Security.
> 
> At the closing ceremony, Brunei handed over the ASEAN Chair in 2014 to Myanmar.
> 
> The same day, the fifth ASEAN-UN Summit was convened, seeing ASEAN and UN leaders agreeing to continue implementing the ASEAN-UN Joint Declaration on a Comprehensive Partnership and boost cooperation in various areas such as maritime security and safety, food and energy security and climate change, and Millennium Development Goals implementation.
> 
> Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung delivered a speech at the Summit, emphasising on the need for the two sides to step up the implementation of commitments they reached, especially in prioritised areas of mutual concern.
> 
> He called on the UN to closely partner with and help ASEAN countries fulfil the UN Millennium Development Goals.
> 
> *In terms of regional peace and security, PM Dung proposed the UN strongly back ASEAN&#8217;s principles on the East Sea issue as stated in the Declaration on Six-point Principles on the East Sea issued in July last year. *
> 
> Vietnam will soon take part in UN peacekeeping missions, firstly in engineering, army medicine and military observance, for peace, stability and development in the region and the world at large, he affirmed.-VNA
> http://en.vietnamplus.vn/Home/23rd-ASEAN-Summit-wraps-up-in-Brunei/201310/40047.vnplus


----------



## Namin

NiceGuy said:


> I just help Namin to grow up , may be he's just 20 or 21 years old
> 
> back to the topic



Niceguy, in my first post, I just want to tell that ASEAN should not trust statement of Chinese leaders, because they will not keep any promise if it doesn't bring benefits for the whole Chinese people. I also cited many facts in Chinese history to prove that.
I just want other people to understand viewpoint of a Vietnam communist about this sea dispute, and importantly we shouldn't underestimate the strength of Chinese people.
If you want to win your enemy, you have to understand them clearly first. Western medias tried to brainwash every body that Chinese people are brainwashed. If they were really brainwashed, then we don't have to worry about China growth.


----------



## EastSea

Namin said:


> Niceguy, in my first post, I just want to tell that ASEAN should not trust statement of Chinese leaders, because they will not keep any promise if it doesn't bring benefits for the whole Chinese people. I also cited many facts in Chinese history to prove that.
> I just want other people to understand viewpoint of a Vietnam communist about this sea dispute, and importantly we shouldn't underestimate the strength of Chinese people.
> If you want to win your enemy, you have to understand them clearly first. Western medias tried to brainwash every body that Chinese people are brainwashed. If they were really brainwashed, then we don't have to worry about China growth.



you are too naive, bro.


----------



## Namin

EastSea said:


> you are too naive, bro.



you can consider me naive. Because Vietnam communists were too naive that in 1958 and 1974, our Chinese comrades backstabbed us when we were busy fighting with Imperialism to promote international communism movement.


----------



## Soryu

Namin said:


> Niceguy, in my first post, I just want to tell that ASEAN should not trust statement of Chinese leaders, because they will not keep any promise if it doesn't bring benefits for the whole Chinese people. I also cited many facts in Chinese history to prove that.
> I just want other people to understand viewpoint of a Vietnam communist about this sea dispute, and importantly we shouldn't underestimate the strength of Chinese people.
> If you want to win your enemy, you have to understand them clearly first. Western medias tried to brainwash every body that Chinese people are brainwashed. If they were really brainwashed, then we don't have to worry about China growth.



We know that, bro. No need to teach us what's store in Chinese head. 
And of course, no need to tell us what's Vietnamese Government viewpoint. If you want to explain it to Chinese member, well... it's seem like a impossible mission, .

P/S: read more in this box, and find out what's happened in here, bro.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## EastSea

Namin said:


> you can consider me naive. Because Vietnam communists were too naive that in 1958 and 1974, our Chinese comrades backstabbed us when we were busy fighting with Imperialism to promote international communism movement.



You said in your early post that you are not member of VCP, why do you call them as "comrades" ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NiceGuy

Namin said:


> you can consider me naive. Because Vietnam communists were too naive that in 1958 and 1974, our Chinese comrades backstabbed us when we were busy fighting with Imperialism to promote international communism movement.



U r too naive coz u called yourself as a communist when u dont know what communist is and how communist society look like ? Why dont u call yourself as GOD instead, u dont know how GOD look like too , bro

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Namin

EastSea said:


> You said in your early post that you are not member of VCP, why do you call them as "comrades" ?



Ok, many of our soldiers in Vietnam war are not members of VCP, but they call each other comrades. 
Actually, joining a communist party does not guarantee of being a communist.
Lenin said that "one who read all of communism books but doesn't live one's life among labourers, is not a communist"
So you only need to understand communism spirit and implement it in your laboring life among labourers to be a true communist.
Anyway, young people in Vietnam, who joined Ho Chi Minh Youth Communist Community, should be a young communist.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

Các anh ch&#7885;c mem m&#7899;i ghê quá, &#273;&#7875; ng&#432;&#7901;i ta quen sân &#273;ã ch&#7913; ....

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Namin

NiceGuy said:


> U r too naive coz u called yourself as a communist when u dont know what communist is and how communist society look like ? Why dont u call yourself as GOD instead, u dont know how GOD look like too , bro



Lenin said that "one who read all of communism books but doesn't live one's life among labourers, is not a communist"
So you only need to understand communism spirit and implement it in your laboring life among labourers to be a true communist.
Anyway, young people in Vietnam, who joined Ho Chi Minh Youth Communist Community, should be a young communist.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zero_wing

Destro said:


> Shut your mouth Pinoy. Getting tired of your anti-China rants. We are a peace loving nation with peace loving people. We are the good guys fighting against the bad guys (Japan, US, Philippines, Vietnam, India). Good guys always end up winning. We stand for peace and never seek hegemony.



Oh please action speak louder than words and please you have no right to call me pinoy! its like the N word for black people to us only we have the right to call each other that and your not in any position to demand anything from me you arrogant fool! stand for peace my @$$ while building military post in some other country's water how stupid do you think we are? its pretty obvious who the bad guy here troll deal with it. Arrogant piece of $h^t!



xunzi said:


> You Pinoy are an annoying brat. China as an adult was trying to make a living (ie, our fishermen fishing there) and you Navy, out of nowhere, trying to arrest an adult doing his jobs. So we **** you on the head. You fall down and going around crying like a baby. No amount of our attempt to cool you down works.. "Oh big bad China is cocking my head!"... Well you deserve it considered you instigated and annoyed an adult trying to make a living.



Just like yelling like crazy at someone and that's some is president talking to other president oh please cry your own @$$ off Jerk! If you want peace do good to others china is so far from our Islands why go there that's called Invading genus don't give me that like if you know what you talking about stupid troll!


----------



## EastSea

Namin said:


> Ok, many of our soldiers in Vietnam war are not members of VCP, but they call each other comrades.
> Actually, joining a communist party does not guarantee of being a communist.
> Lenin said that "one who read all of communism books but doesn't live one's life among labourers, is not a communist"
> So you only need to understand communism spirit and implement it in your laboring life among labourers to be a true communist.
> Anyway, young people in Vietnam, who joined Ho Chi Minh Youth Communist Community, should be a young communist.



what do you think about concept "laborers" in speaks of Lenin mean, in beginning of last century ? muscle workers ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

MSA 0611 launched&#65306;


----------



## Zero_wing

Ha then your threat to world peace so your finally shown your true selves!


----------



## bandit

I read this news yesterday, i was expecting Philippines to be bombarded out of existence by megatons upon megatons of nuclear missiles?

What happened chinese friends, the missiles failed to fly


----------



## Namin

EastSea said:


> what do you think about concept "laborers" in speaks of Lenin mean, in beginning of last century ? muscle workers ?



"labourers" in speaks of Lenin does contain "professional technical workers", and various kinds of workers. Lenin also suggested that every people can elect the chief country leader as the way Americans elect their president. Actually, I follow communism of Marx-Lenin, not exact the same kind with Vietnam communism or Maoism. There are hundreds of books about the Marx-Leninism but I only can understand a few of them. If you want to know more about that, you should read some books, I can not explain here as it goes far from the topic.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## xunzi

Zero_wing said:


> Just like yelling like crazy at someone and that's some is president talking to other president oh please cry your own @$$ off Jerk! If you want peace do good to others china is so far from our Islands why go there that's called Invading genus don't give me that like if you know what you talking about stupid troll!


Are you an incomprehensible idiot? I cannot understand what you are trying to say. You are from an insignificant country that want publicly. You ain't going to have it.


----------



## sweetouch

No one can force China to follow the law


----------



## Zero_wing

xunzi said:


> Are you an incomprehensible idiot? I cannot understand what you are trying to say. You are from an insignificant country that want publicly. You ain't going to have it.



Ha in your F up dreams you stupid imperialist, It because your trying to make sense of a stupid concept that is long dead if you want imperialism 19th century make a time machine and go there! As if you have brains your just fool who knows how to type but with no brains on the subject just what he is told. 

In scale on 1 to f how f are you?


----------



## DaiViet

Listen compatriots, you can't beat China if you kept following behind them. For the entire Vietnamese history never once invade China because simply Vietnamese have been influenced by the Chinese and keep following them. The Chinese knew that therefore they keep forcing Vietnam to be like them, a mini China so they can easily control Vietnam. You need to come up with different strategies of economic and politic reforms if ever think of beat China.

See how Japan, Manchu, Mongol and Westerns were able to beat Chinese because these countries have different structure of government and economic systems.

The current Vietnam political system is an copy of China,therefore Vietnam economic and military will never surpass China, let not think about beat them in war, what I meant beat them in war is not the same as repel their invasions but to invade them like Mongol, Manchu, Japan and Westerns did in the past. You need to be like Japan or France, Germany which have different model of governmental system if you ever think of counter China.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## DaiViet

For the whole time, South China Sea was not a part of China empire. Now they aggressively claim the whole China Sea belong to them. Anyone with common sense already see this is a ridiculous claim. 

You come to other people house and you claim it is yours. Now you said you are on defense to protect your house? What is up with this Chinese journalist's common sense? Let not talk about who is on defensive and who is not.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

DaiViet said:


> Listen compatriots, you can't beat China if you kept following behind them. For the entire Vietnamese history never once invade China because simply Vietnamese have been influenced by the Chinese and keep following them. The Chinese knew that therefore they keep forcing Vietnam to be like them, a mini China so they can easily control Vietnam. You need to come up with different strategies of economic and politic reforms if ever think of beat China.
> 
> See how Japan, Manchu, Mongol and Westerns were able to beat Chinese because these countries have different structure of government and economic systems.
> 
> The current Vietnam political system is an copy of China,therefore Vietnam economic and military will never surpass China, let not think about beat them in war, what I meant beat them in war is not the same as repel their invasions but to invade them like Mongol, Manchu, Japan and Westerns did in the past. You need to be like Japan or France, Germany which have different model of governmental system if you ever think of counter China.



I like to say that there is no "beat" but ready to "defend" our self first. T&#7921; c&#7913;u tr&#432;&#7899;c khi tr&#7901;i c&#7913;u. and the model of politic system is both copied from Stalin model, not from China. Problem ís how to change it without riots and violations.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Bienvenido

Krueger said:


> Global Times | 2013-10-7
> By Li Kaisheng
> 
> Common sense tells us that major powers usually predominate in the game of international politics. However, among the claimants in the South China Sea issue, the Philippines, a much smaller and less powerful nation than China, continues to provoke and seems to take the initiative in recent years by raising various complaints against China on this issue.
> 
> It did not only provoke the tension on Huangyan Island in April 2012, but repeatedly forced the South China Sea issue into the agendas of some meetings attended by ASEAN countries.
> 
> Earlier this year, Manila intentionally and unilaterally handed the issue to the UN arbitral tribunal, asking for a magnification of the issue, and the arbitration is still up in the air.
> 
> Recently its navy claimed that they were talking about the possibility of removing the concrete blocks on Huangyan Island, allegedly installed by China.
> 
> Similar cases, small but perennial, are too many to list. China has been upholding a much tougher attitude in the last couple of years, but its current position still seems on the defensive.
> 
> The current situation is partly caused by the two nations' foreign policies. China is still under the influence of its long-lasting policy of "hiding one's capacities and biding one's time," while the Philippines is becoming more provocative under the Benigno Aquino III administration.
> 
> In the political sphere of East and Southeast Asia, being "small and weak" is not a disadvantage, but an advantage for smaller powers under some special circumstances.
> 
> The reason why the Philippines can translate its small size and weak strength into an advantage comes from the particularity of the maritime disputes in East and Southeast Asia.
> 
> Although the South China Sea issue remains a traditional security issue whose solution largely depends on national strength and military power, often it is the power of rules instead of strength and force that plays an important role.
> 
> From the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea to the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea or the envisaged Code of Conduct in the South China Sea, whoever makes the rules and uses them well will take the initiative in the game.
> 
> As long as the smaller countries have a good command of diplomatic skills and a profound knowledge of the rules, they will be hardly outmatched by the major powers.
> 
> The Philippines has also been given a fail-safe mechanism by the US, so that when diplomacy does not work, the US will have its back.
> 
> Washington and Manila have a long-standing military alliance, and US President Barack Obama's "pivot to Asia" policy has also stimulated Manila's confidence to roll up its sleeves.
> 
> Manila knows that as long as Washington's core interests can be guaranteed, the US will never engage in a fight with China just for the sake of the Philippines.
> 
> Nonetheless, Manila has been aware that although military confrontation with China is doomed, it is very likely to occupy the high ground of public opinion and perceived morality.
> 
> When international disputes break out, the international community usually shows sympathy to the disadvantaged party, even to the extent that the rights and wrongs of the issue will be ignored. Major powers are often labeled as hegemonies and bullies, and the smaller ones as victims.
> 
> What's more, in the eyes of Westerners, the Philippines is a democracy while China is a so-called communist "autocracy." This disparity adds weight to Manila's claim.
> 
> The more sympathy the Philippines gets, the more accusations China will have to face.
> 
> Although China has started to resort to multiple strategies to deal with the Philippines' provocations, it still remains the disadvantageous side, and some of its decisive actions even backfired, making the Philippines acquire more sympathy and support from the international community.
> 
> Given such circumstances, how to make wise use of rules in the South China Sea and change the current disadvantageous position will be a direct challenge for Chinese diplomacy in the future.
> 
> The author is an associate research fellow at the Institute of International Relations, Shanghai Academy of Social Sciences. opinion@globaltimes.com.cn
> 
> Time to use rules well in maritime disputes - OP-ED - Globaltimes.cn









Never in history of any civilized country in the world where a nation claimed to own an entire body of Sea, except now China.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

Our political system is different from Chinese's structure, although we both are communist.

Best way is improve yourself power, first is culture, education, and follow it will be economy, technology, military ...

Culture is very important, Chinese know it, they have a mighty culture and take it advantage to build up their power.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Bienvenido

China doesn't want the UN to interfere with its action because they knew then that they don't have any proof and they cannot support their claim.






Well the entire world will never ever recognize China's moronic and baseless nine-dash claim.


----------



## bolo

Zero_wing said:


> Ha then your threat to world peace so your finally shown your true selves!



funny how you talk tough but you dont live in the pilippines. Get it through your skull, there is no such thing as world peace. Never will never will be.


----------



## HongWu

LOL we took Scarborough Shoal from you like candy from a baby! 

Still waiting for daddy to save you..... so you offer them naval bases together with young Pinoy ladies dancing on bar tables

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Bienvenido

HongWu said:


> LOL we took Scarborough Shoal from you like candy from a baby!
> 
> Still waiting for daddy to save you..... so you offer them naval bases together with young Pinoy ladies dancing on bar tables


This is a case of a big bully with no brains and a trouble maker in this peaceful region.

I applaud Aquino for standing up to a bully.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## xunzi

Zero_wing said:


> Ha in your F up dreams you stupid imperialist, It because your trying to make sense of a stupid concept that is long dead if you want imperialism 19th century make a time machine and go there! As if you have brains your just fool who knows how to type but with no brains on the subject just what he is told.
> 
> In scale on 1 to f how f are you?


Talk to me when your country becomes more significant because I ain't going to give you any more publicly. I'm sorry, my Filipino friend.


----------



## Kolaps

Krueger said:


> *President Benigno Aquino III on Wednesday, October 9, echoed a common position among countries on the South China Sea disputes: &#8220;Follow the rule of law.&#8221;*
> 
> ...........................................



If Taiwan is not included in the meeting, it will be illegal!

I think, Taiwan will get a big chunk of South China Sea, as all these SE Asia countries didn't exist at the time.

This is a modern day, people can't claim based on temporary historical border. If that so, Indonesia can claim Malaysia and Philippine. Cambodia can claim South Vietnam. But that is not the way how it works.

Republic of China will get a huge chuck of South China Sea. All the recent illegal occupations and flag take down acts will go away.


Philippine will get nothing. Their border, was defined clearly during the colonial era and the independent day.

I just want to say, people should be responsible by his words. If he said, follow the rule of law, so be it. No protest after that!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Kolaps

sweetouch said:


> I think the US is preparing for war against China in the future even if they are still trading and borrowing from them.



Was is always being prepared during peace.

China is always bad in PR. China actually can use US military power as an excuse for his own gain. Just like US use China military modernization as an excuse to expand their military projection to East Asia.

Btw, which country who don't modernize his military equipment to be always up to date, which country still using sword and arrow, or WW2 equipment. Excuse is just excuse, simple as that.

As usual, communist is always an idiot.


----------



## gambit

Genesis said:


> As to international law, those are laws not made by China, *why should we obey them.* Who ever made it obey it.


Then China should at least get off the UN Security Council if not out of the UN itself. But in being nominally a member of the UN, not talking about sitting on its top body, China is morally obligated to at least consider international laws.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## punjabiboy

China came under heavy pressure Oct.10 as U.S. and Japan both geared up to take on the South China Sea dispute during summit rounds despite Beijings reluctance to address the issue in public forums.

U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry will press China and Southeast Asian nations to discuss the South China Sea dispute at an Asian summit, a senior U.S. official said. Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, who was also attending, said late on Oct. 9 that the South China Sea dispute was a matter of concern to the entire region. In pointed remarks, he said Tokyo would continue to cooperate with the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) in resolving the row, according to Reuters.

US Secretary of State John Kerry told reporters on the sidelines of an East Asia Summit in Brunei that such a code was needed, Agence France Presse reported.

A code of conduct is a necessity for the long term, but nations can also reduce the risk of miscommunication and miscalculation by taking steps today, Kerry said, according to a copy of his remarks to the summit.

Kerry did not single out any countries by name, but China has come under growing pressure over its claims to virtually all of the body of water, and acts interpreted by some of its neighbours as aggressive.
Kerry added all claimants have a responsibility to clarify and align their claims with international law.

US role

Prime Minister Shinzo Abe of Japan, which itself is embroiled in a heated dispute with China over islands and waters between the two powers, told reporters he looked forward to the early conclusion of a code of conduct which is legally binding.

The sea should be ruled by law and not by force, he added.

China has resisted discussing the territorial issue with the 10-member ASEAN, preferring to settle disputes in the South China Sea through negotiations with individual claimants. It has also frowned at what it sees as U.S. meddling in a regional issue.

China claims almost the entire oil- and gas-rich South China Sea, overlapping with claims from Taiwan, Malaysia, Brunei, the Philippines and Vietnam, the last four are members of ASEAN.

The row is one of the regions biggest flashpoints amid Chinas military build-up and the U.S. strategic pivot back to Asia signaled by the Obama administration in 2011.

The Chinese consistently indicate their view that difficult issues that might fall outside the comfort zone of any member need not be discussed, the U.S. official said. 

That is not a view that is held by the U.S., or, I believe, many if not most of the EAS member states, but we will find out, the official added. 

In a speech to ASEAN leaders reported by Kyodo news agency, Japans Abe came out squarely in favor of the Southeast Asian grouping.

Japan has its own territorial dispute with China over islands in the East China Sea and Abe said there were moves aimed at changing the status quo by force in the South China Sea.
China under international pressure over islands dispute, 10 October 2013

Japan sends big patrol ship to Diaoyus
Japan sends big patrol ship to Diaoyus | South China Morning Post

Japan Increases Security Around Disputed Islands

Japanese Deputy Cabinet Secretary Katsunobu Kato said Wednesday that Tokyo will stand firm in its position on the islands, but hopes for a diplomatic resolution to the tensions.

"We will take all measures necessary to protect our sovereignty, territory and airspace as necessary while also looking to react in a calm manner," her said. "We do not want to escalate the situation from the Japanese side. We look to continue to talk with the Chinese side and improve the situation."

A government spokesman on Tuesday said Japan has not ruled out deploying officials to the uninhabited island chain, a comment that drew a sharp rebuke by Beijing.

China's foreign ministry said Beijing was "gravely concerned" by the remarks and warned that Japan will have to "accept the consequences" if it "recklessly makes provocative moves."

Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe has called for high-level talks to resolve the dispute. But China has rejected his offer as insincere, saying Tokyo must first make concessions to reduce tensions.

At sea, meanwhile, government patrols ships and airplanes from both countries continued to engage in minor standoffs and confrontations, raising fears of a military clash.

On Tuesday, Japan formally complained to Beijing over the presence of eight Chinese government ships in the area. The Japanese coastguard says the flotilla was the biggest of its kind since April.

On Monday, Japan scrambled fighter jets in the East China Sea after it spotted what it said was an unmanned aircraft flying toward Japan.

The islands, known as Senkaku in Japan and Diaoyu in China, are uninhabited, but surrounded by rich fishing ground and potential energy deposits.

Japan annexed the islets in the late 19th century. China claimed sovereignty over the archipelago in 1971, saying ancient maps show it has been Chinese territory for centuries.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## punjabiboy

Japan Increases Security Around Disputed Islands
necessary to protect our sovereignty, territory and airspace as necessary while also looking to react in a calm manner," her said. "We do not want to escalate the situation from the Japanese side. We look to continue to talk with the Chinese side and improve the situation."

A government spokesman on Tuesday said Japan has not ruled out deploying officials to the uninhabited island chain, a comment that drew a sharp rebuke by Beijing.

China's foreign ministry said Beijing was "gravely concerned" by the remarks and warned that Japan will have to "accept the consequences" if it "recklessly makes provocative moves."

Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe has called for high-level talks to resolve the dispute. But China has rejected his offer as insincere, saying Tokyo must first make concessions to reduce tensions.

At sea, meanwhile, government patrols ships and airplanes from both countries continued to engage in minor standoffs and confrontations, raising fears of a military clash.

On Tuesday, Japan formally complained to Beijing over the presence of eight Chinese government ships in the area. The Japanese coastguard says the flotilla was the biggest of its kind since April.

On Monday, Japan scrambled fighter jets in the East China Sea after it spotted what it said was an unmanned aircraft flying toward Japan.

The islands, known as Senkaku in Japan and Diaoyu in China, are uninhabited, but surrounded by rich fishing ground and potential energy deposits.

Japan annexed the islets in the late 19th century. China claimed sovereignty over the archipelago in 1971, saying ancient maps show it has been Chinese territory for centuries.
Japan Increases Security Around Disputed Islands

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## punjabiboy

China military tells U.S. not to encourage Japan over isles

BEIJING (Reuters) - China's military told the United States this week not to support Japan, nor let it do as it pleased, over a group of disputed islands in the East China Sea, the Chinese Defense Ministry said on Friday.

Ties between the world's second- and third-biggest economies have been strained over the uninhabited islands, controlled by Japan but claimed by both countries. The isles are known as the Senkaku in Japan and the Diaoyu in China.

A year ago on Wednesday, the Japanese government bought three of the islands from a private owner, inflaming anger, and setting off big anti-Japan protests, in China.

Aircraft and ships from the two countries have played cat-and-mouse in the vicinity of the islands ever since, raising fears of conflict, perhaps sparked by an accident.

Wang Guanzhong, Deputy Chief of General Staff of China's People's Liberation Army, said during scheduled talks with U.S. counterparts in Beijing that China was determined to defend its territory, but had all along exercised restraint.

"This issue should not become a problem between China and the United States, and China hopes that the United States does not become a third party in this issue," the Defence Ministry quoted Wang as telling U.S. Under Secretary of Defense for Policy James Miller.

"The United States should maintain a consistent stance and policy, not send wrong signals nor support and connive with the relevant country to do as they please," Wang added.

He said China hoped the United States would handle the issue appropriately to ensure it did not affect mutual strategic trust.

The ministry cited Miller as saying in response that the United States did not take a position on the sovereignty issue, called for all sides to exercise restraint and supported China to use diplomatic means to resolve the matter.

China has long harbored suspicions about U.S. interest in the dispute as the U.S.-Japan security treaty commits the United States to intervene in defence of Japan if there is an attack on Japanese-administered territory.

The United States also has a hefty military presence in Japan, including on the southern island of Okinawa, which is close to the disputed islands.
http://news.**********/china-military-tells-u-not-encourage-japan-over-041422796.html

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zero_wing

They can suck it


----------



## Zero_wing

bolo said:


> funny how you talk tough but you dont live in the pilippines. Get it through your skull, there is no such thing as world peace. Never will never will be.



Typical Imperialist this is fragile peace and your intention is to break it and send us back to world war 2 and here you guys were always talking how china was a victim of said war and hate the Japanese for it now you wanna do the same thing? what type of logic is that? and you have no right to ask me a personal question! your not my friend or anything to me so why should i answer your question? Just stick to the topic or f off if have nothing else to say!


----------



## xunzi

LOL The international consists of Japan, USA, and a few "troublemaker" in Southeast Asia. When the Muslim sphere spoke, then we can "reconsider".

Right now, I am very please with our foreign policy game of "passive-aggressive" stance to play mind game with everyone. LMAO Let be honest here, Japan is using China threat to re-militarize and we are using the dispute and US's pivot to ram up our military defense without the fear of "international condemnation". When I say "international", I mean "international" and not just the USA, the western hemisphere, and a few of her puppet allies in Asia. LOL


----------



## Götterdämmerung

Nobody really pays attention here in the EU, besides the odd articles on page 20 that appears every other month. From governmental sides there is a deafening silence.


----------



## dray

China doesn't stand a chance against Japan with their largely obsolete arsenal. Hope they don't lose their country over a tiny island dispute.


----------



## HongWu

Bienvenido said:


> This is a case of a big bully with no brains and a trouble maker in this peaceful region.
> 
> I applaud Aquino for standing up to a bully.


You wanna see trouble? Now we will arm the Moro separatists will advanced weaponry so they can demolish the Pinoy army and liberate their nation from your occupation.



Zero_wing said:


> Typical Imperialist this is fragile peace and your intention is to break it and send us back to world war 2 and here you guys were always talking how china was a victim of said war and hate the Japanese for it now you wanna do the same thing? what type of logic is that? and you have no right to ask me a personal question! your not my friend or anything to me so why should i answer your question? Just stick to the topic or f off if have nothing else to say!


The real imperialists are the occupiers of the Moros people. China must give them nuclear backpacks so they can launch terror attacks against Manila.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## HongWu

Mere talking won't stop the PLA or PLAN. When the time comes, a massive launch of 3000 nuclear warheads against our enemies would relieve all pent up pressure!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Glorino

After the second world war which country Philippines or China increased its land mass by 45% through invasion
Dear readers spend a little time to think about it


----------



## Apothecary

HongWu said:


> You wanna see trouble? Now we will arm the Moro separatists will advanced weaponry so they can demolish the Pinoy army and liberate their nation from your occupation.
> 
> The real imperialists are the occupiers of the Moros people. China must give them nuclear backpacks so they can launch terror attacks against Manila.



I didn't know that china supports terrorist and separtist group that has ties with al queda and uses
children to plant I.E.D. bombs and use their own people as hostages and living shields.

Wow, you must be a real fuc.king idiot.


----------



## Zero_wing

HongWu said:


> You wanna see trouble? Now we will arm the Moro separatists will advanced weaponry so they can demolish the Pinoy army and liberate their nation from your occupation.
> 
> The real imperialists are the occupiers of the Moros people. China must give them nuclear backpacks so they can launch terror attacks against Manila.



Blah blah blah typical moron who knows to use space bar hey guys look at mental ill who can do stuff with computer.


----------



## Zero_wing

Ha your talking about other countries as if you know things but look around you moron your country is no paradise ha jokes on you! your just other fool who knows to say bad things about others but have huge faults and too arrogant and too stupid to accept and improve yourselves. Your in no position to say things you arrogant fool your just other chinese fool who knows to use a space and things he knows things go f yourself.


----------



## bolo

Zero_wing said:


> Typical Imperialist this is fragile peace and your intention is to break it and send us back to world war 2 and here you guys were always talking how china was a victim of said war and hate the Japanese for it now you wanna do the same thing? what type of logic is that? and you have no right to ask me a personal question! your not my friend or anything to me so why should i answer your question? Just stick to the topic or f off if have nothing else to say!



lol. Imperialist? Do you know the meaning of that? lol. why do you bring Japanese with your post when the topic has nothing to do with them. When did I ever post anything about China as a victim in ww2 ? 

And you say I'm off topic, what a joke.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zero_wing

bolo said:


> lol. Imperialist? Do you know the meaning of that? lol. why do you bring Japanese with your post when the topic has nothing to do with them. When did I ever post anything about China as a victim in ww2 ?
> 
> And you say I'm off topic, what a joke.



I am most your countrymen are always saying it i just cut off the typical chinese propaganda of " we won against the Japanese myth" As if they help out the Allies at all ha anyway building bases without consent, claiming a whole sea ( the ONLY country in the plant who does) is the very definition of Imperialism please don't act like you have any brain cells troll.


----------



## Zero_wing

And yet nothing happen go take your meds you troll


----------



## DaiViet

EastSea said:


> I like to say that there is no "beat" but ready to "defend" our self first. T&#7921; c&#7913;u tr&#432;&#7899;c khi tr&#7901;i c&#7913;u. and the model of politic system is both copied from Stalin model, not from China. Problem ís how to change it without riots and violations.



Why you can only think of defense instead of offense? Vietnam has been on defense for over thousands can you ever think of offense? Look at Japan, it is small nation too, but in its history never once China can bully Japan, it was another way around. The Senkkaku dispute, China loud mouth all they want but who is the one administrates the Senkkaku? It is Japan. Similar situation between China and Vietnam, but why isn't Vietnam administrate the Hoang Sa?

How can Japan was able 2 bully China but Vietnam can not? (When Chinese nationalists hear Japan bullies China they get angry, when they hear Vietnam will bully them, they will laugh, why is that?) Does China dare to bully France, Britain, or Germany despite these countries smaller size than Vietnam? Because their economics and military are strong thus they have strong allies such as the NATO. 

Vietnam has always been following China, like little boy following big fat brother, and this big fat brother often abuse the little boy. What the little boy doing is nothing but biting his teeth and taking the beat. Can this little boy be smarter stop following this big fat bully and go somewhere learn some different type of martial art, join a league then come back and ask what's up. Instead of spending time walking behind this big fat bully with hope that he will teach you something or protect you from being bullying. The fact is this big fat bully not great, his background often got bullies by other smaller boys.

The political system of China and Vietnam is the same, Communism-one party with half free market model. Both adopted Soviet system. Soviet threw the communism away. China keeps the political the same and introduce free market. Vietnam does the same keeps the political system and introduce free market.

Japan-Constitutional Monarchy with full free enterprise model.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## William Hung

DaiViet said:


> How can Japan was able 2 bully China but Vietnam can not?...
> 
> ...The political system of China and Vietnam is the same, Communism-one party with half free market model...
> 
> ...Japan-Constitutional Monarchy with full free enterprise model.



Japan was able to bully the rest of Asia by opening up to the outside world and begin to industrialize during the Meiji period. In that same period (actually before the period) the Chinese and Vietnamese Monarchy shut itself from the outside world, got weak and then eventually got bullied by western foreigners.

China, under the leadership of the CCP, was able to overtake the Japanese economy. So how are you going to compare Japanese "constitutional monarchy" and Chinese communism now? 

Stop dreaming of bullying China if Vietnam is still relying on ODAs and foreign aids.


----------



## DaiViet

Black Flag said:


> Japan was able to bully the rest of Asia by opening up to the outside world and begin to industrialize during the Meiji period. In that same period (actually before the period) the Chinese and Vietnamese Monarchy shut itself from the outside world, got weak and then eventually got bullied by western foreigners.



There you go, is this what I have been saying. The Nguyen Dynasty Vietnam was dumb enough to copy China closed its door to foreign trade while Japan was smarter they did not copy China and did go on its own way. Japan have their political system Constitutional Monarchy with full free trade enterprise. Vietnam is still have half azz Market economic which called social-market which the same as China where SOE account for most of its economic, even worse Vietnam SOEs are a complete failure . How does Vietnam ever beat China with the economic model copy from China even worse Vietnam did not do it right when copy from China?

It is like some cheap China iPhone copy can never beat genuine iPhone from Apple.



> China, under the leadership of the CCP, was able to *overtake the Japanese economy*. So how are you going to compare Japanese "constitutional monarchy" and Chinese communism now?



Over take Japanese economy by what? GDP or GDP per capita? Chinese has 1.3 billion of course its total output must larger than Japan which has only 128 millions. By GDP per capita, you Chinese are poor compare with Japan, GDP per capita Japan =$46,000 while China = 6,000.

In a country, a person make only $6000 USD and saying that his country economic richer than a country who make $46,000 USD. This is only simple macro and yet this Chinese do not understand.



> Stop dreaming of bullying China if Vietnam is still relying on ODAs and foreign aids.


Vietnam can never bully China as I have mentioned above when they are too dumb to follow/copy China and they still have not realized that.


----------



## William Hung

DaiViet said:


> Over take Japanese economy by what? GDP or GDP per capita? Chinese has 1.3 billion of course its total output must larger than Japan which has only 128 millions. By GDP per capita, you Chinese are poor compare with Japan, GDP per capita Japan =$46,000 while China = 6,000.
> 
> In a country, a person make only $6000 USD and *saying that his country economic richer than a country who make $46,000 USD*. This is only simple macro and yet *this Chinese do not understand.*



Obviously GDP, not GDP per capita. From this perspective, China is in fact richer than Japan eventhough the average Chinese earns less than average Japanese. You're the one who doesn't understand. In world politics, GDP per capital doesn't matter (unless you're an activist or some kind of NGOs or saint). Since you love talking about countries bullying other countries, GPD is all that matters.

Brunei, Malaysia, Thailand, etc. have higher GDP per capita than China. But they all need to suck up to China for their economy and trade. Japan had to tone down their anti-China rhetorics recently. Why? because they found out the hard truth that China can hurt them bad, economically. Even a few years back, several European countries had to ask China for help during the global financial crisis. All these countries I mentioned have higher GDP per capita than PRC but that doesn't mean sh!t.




> Vietnam can never bully China as I have mentioned above when they are too dumb to follow/copy China and they still have not realized that.



I know what you're trying to say. You want to say that countries like Vietnam need to overthrow their Communist government and fully open up their market. After that, Vietnam will be as strong and rich as South Korea and Japan. That is only a wet dream. Having western democratic constitution and having a free market does not guarantee your country will be super rich. Just look at Cambodia and Philippines, they are democratic with a free market but they're not super rich are they?

Also look at the oversea Vietnamese community in countries like Australia, Canada and UK. They live in democratic countries with free market but their community is filled with criminals, drug dealers, tax evader, people who cheat the welfare system, etc. It looks just exactly like those SOEs in vietnam. I know all this because I have stayed in Australia before and seen the Vietnamese community there. The Chinese community in Australia has those kind of people too but not as much as the Vietnamese, per capita

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Krueger

CHINA'S WORLD | October 14, 2013

*A Washington Lawyer Helps Manila Challenge Beijing's Sea Claims*







*Lawyer Paul Reichler points to the area in dispute on a map in his office in Washington, D.C.*

Paul Reichler, a Washington-based lawyer, has spent much of his career representing small countries against big ones: Nicaragua versus the U.S.; Georgia versus Russia; Mauritius versus the U.K., Bangladesh versus India.

His first big victory made headlines in the 1980s when the International Court of Justice in The Hague ruled that U.S. support for Contra rebels trying to overthrow the left-wing Sandinista government of Nicaragua violated international law.

*That's one reason to pay attention to the case he launched this year at a United Nations arbitration body: the Philippines versus China.*






*Lawyer Paul Reichler, who specializes in international public law, is taking China to court on behalf of the Philippines over a dispute in the South China Sea.*

Mr. Reichler is the lead lawyer representing Manila in its legal challenge against China's claim to almost all of the South China Sea, signified by the "nine-dash line"-a U-shaped protrusion on Chinese maps that brushes the coastlines of smaller states, including the Philippines, Brunei, Malaysia and Vietnam.

The Philippines brought the case in January under the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, which governs the world's oceans. China is a signatory. The heart of the case is that the line has no basis under the U.N. convention, which states that coastal states are entitled to a territorial sea extending 12 nautical miles as well as a 200-mile economic exclusion zone in which they have rights to fish and extract undersea resources.

"Of course we're aware of the enormity of taking on a country like China. We'd be foolish not to" be aware, says Mr. Reichler, a litigator with the U.S. law firm Foley Hoag.

The Arbitral Tribunal has appointed a five-person panel of judges and issued a timetable for handling the case, including a deadline for the Philippines to submit its evidence by March 30 next year.

*It's the first time that Beijing has been taken to a U.N. tribunal and China is furious. Most recently, it showed its displeasure by making clear that Philippine President Benigno Aquino III wouldn't be welcome at a trade event in southern China in August. The Chinese Foreign Ministry didn't respond to requests for comment on the arbitration action. But Beijing has said it will ignore the legal proceedings, without giving any reasons.
*
China insists that territorial disputes over islands in the South China Sea should be settled through bilateral negotiation under its frequently stated principle of "shelving disputes and going in for joint development." The sea contains potentially vast reserves of oil and natural gas. In addition, Beijing maintains that the nine-dash line presents no obstacle to freedom of navigation in a stretch of water that carries a third of global tradea major U.S. concern.

*Beijing's refusal to participate hasn't stopped the case going ahead. It could even speed its resolution: Mr. Reichler says that if China doesn't take part, the case could wrap up by the end of 2014. Such cases can otherwise drag on for up to five years.*

To some skeptics, Manila's challenge is quixotic. Even if the tribunal decides it has jurisdiction over the case, and then finds in Manila's favor, Beijing could simply ignore the verdict.

Yet there are more than legal considerations at stake. The case is also significant for what it will signify about the way that China views the world.

China's self-image is wrapped up in its own sense of victimhood at the hands of imperialist powers led by Britain starting in the mid-19th century. That, in turn, has driven a Chinese foreign policy that professes to treat all countries equally, large or small, rich or poor.

But now that China is a global player, and dominates its own backyard, neighbors are asking anxious questions. Will it seek to work within existing international laws, or try to bend them to suit its purposes? As it acquires a blue-water navy to project power far from its own shores, will it be more tempted to use force to settle territorial disputes? And how will it treat smaller countries, like the Philippines, that feel bullied by China's growing military might?

Mr. Reichler is counting on international opinion to sway China's response toward any judgment that doesn't go China's way. "It's a terrible blow to a state's prestige to defy a tribunal's decision," he says.

*From the Philippines' point of view, legal action was the last option after diplomacy failed. China wouldn't budge from its claim to "indisputable sovereignty" over the whole sea*, say officials in Manila, and it was steadily encroaching on Philippine territory. Last year, Chinese ships fenced off the Scarborough Shoal, a fishermen's haven just west of Manila. China says the Philippines navy was harassing Chinese fishermen.

Manila conducted a global search for legal counsel before settling on Mr. Reichler. "We wanted the best," says one high-placed Philippine official.

China uses history to support its claims to the South China Sea and all its land features. These date back to its own imperial days centuries ago, when China treated its neighbors as mere vassals. However, the nine-dash line itself was first published on a map in 1947 by the Chinese Kuomintang government, and the Communists inherited it after the civil war that brought the Communists, led by Chairman Mao, to power.

The line extends almost to Indonesia, some 900 miles from China's southernmost territory, Hainan Island. Such a far-reaching claim has no parallel anywhere in the world.

As for the islands, rocks and reefs that fall within the line, Mr. Reichler makes a technical argument in the Philippines' case. The convention rules that a habitable island is entitled to a 200-mile economic exclusion zone. A rock that juts out of the sea gets 12 miles. A semisubmerged reef gets nothing.

Mr. Reichler's argument is that all the sea features that the Philippines disputes with China are either rocks or reefs. And, therefore, even if China owns them, it has only limited rights to the surrounding resources.

*His legal team is pulling together a massive document to support that contention consisting of aerial photographs, naval charts, hydrology reports and geographical findings. "I'm not in a position to say how China will react," he says. "My job is to say [to the Philippines]: 'This is a good case for you to win or not.'"*

Philippines Challenges Beijing's Claims in the South China Sea -- in Court - WSJ.com

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## DaiViet

Black Flag said:


> *Obviously GDP, not GDP per capita. From this perspective, China is in fact richer than Japan eventhough the average Chinese earns less than average Japanese*. You're the one who doesn't understand. In world politics, GDP per capital doesn't matter (unless you're an activist or some kind of NGOs or saint). Since you love talking about countries bullying other countries, GPD is all that matters.
> 
> Brunei, Malaysia, Thailand, etc. have higher GDP per capita than China. But they all need to suck up to China for their economy and trade. Japan had to tone down their anti-China rhetorics recently. Why? because they found out the hard truth that China can hurt them bad, economically. Even a few years back, several European countries had to ask China for help during the global financial crisis. All these countries I mentioned have higher GDP per capita than PRC but that doesn't mean sh!t.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know what you're trying to say. You want to say that countries like Vietnam need to overthrow their Communist government and fully open up their market. After that, Vietnam will be as strong and rich as South Korea and Japan. That is only a wet dream. Having western democratic constitution and having a free market does not guarantee your country will be super rich. Just look at Cambodia and Philippines, they are democratic with a free market but they're not super rich are they?
> 
> Also look at the oversea Vietnamese community in countries like Australia, Canada and UK. They live in democratic countries with free market but their community is filled with criminals, drug dealers, tax evader, people who cheat the welfare system, etc. It looks just exactly like those SOEs in vietnam. I know all this because I have stayed in Australia before and seen the Vietnamese community there. The Chinese community in Australia has those kind of people too but not as much as the Vietnamese, per capita



Hahaha I stopped there, the first sentence has so much contradictions that I do not bother to read the rest of the post. China is richer than Japan? Another delusional Chinese extremist.


----------



## sweetouch

The international community is silently watching the outcome of this undertaking. Hope the problem will be solved amicably.


----------



## Srinivas

Right thing to do, when the nations are signatory of UNCLOS.


----------



## William Hung

DaiViet said:


> Hahaha *I stopped there*, the first sentence has so much contradictions that I do not bother to read the rest of the post. China is richer than Japan? Another delusional Chinese extremist.



Good boy, I'm happy you've stopped. I know you've read the rest of the post and got nothing intelligent to reply.

China is indeed richer than Japan. Just accept that fact. Whether it's GDP, growth rate, PPP, foreign exchage reserves, etc, China is on top of Japan.

The only thing you have to argue with is GDP per capita. Too bad that doesn't mean much. Timor-leste and Papa new guinea both have higher GDP per capita than Vietnam. So according to your logic, Timor-leste and PNG are both richer than Vietnam and Vietnam should should tremble in fear because they both can come and bully Vietnam any time. 

Don't be angry because I exposed you as an anti-communist. All of your posts are basically stupid anti-VCP and anti-CCP rhetorics. I bet you are an oversea vietnamese or have relation with oversea anti-communists.



DaiViet said:


> Hahaha *I stopped there*, the first sentence has so much contradictions that I do not bother to read the rest of the post. China is richer than Japan? Another delusional Chinese extremist.



Good boy, I'm happy you've stopped. I know you've read the rest of the post and got nothing intelligent to reply.

China is indeed richer than Japan. Just accept that fact. Whether it's GDP, growth rate, PPP, foreign exchage reserves, etc, China is on top of Japan.

The only thing you have to argue with is GDP per capita. Too bad that doesn't mean much. Timor-leste and Papa new guinea both have higher GDP per capita than Vietnam. So according to your logic, Timor-leste and PNG are both richer than Vietnam and Vietnam should should tremble in fear because they both can come and bully Vietnam any time. 

Don't be angry because I exposed you as an anti-communist. All of your posts are basically stupid anti-VCP and anti-CCP rhetorics. I bet you are an oversea vietnamese or have relation with oversea anti-communists.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## sincity

Can Native Indian Bring US to court and win back their land? Can South Tibet and Tibet bring both China and Indian to court and win back their land? This lawsuit has no merit at all.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Krueger

October 15, 2013

*Q&A: Taking China to Court *

_In a long career as an international arbitrator, Paul Reichler of U.S. law firm Foley Hoag.

Now, he&#8217;s launched legal proceedings against China on behalf of the Philippines over its claim to almost the entire South China Sea &#8211; everything within a &#8220;nine-dash line&#8221; &#8211; under the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea. The case is being handled by a tribunal sitting in The Hague.

China Real Time caught up with Mr. Reichler, the son of a famed baseball writer for the Associated Press, in his penthouse apartment in Washington, D.C., with some follow-up questions by email. Edited excerpts:
_






*Where are we in the proceedings?*

The Arbitral Tribunal has adopted rules of procedure, which include a schedule. The Philippines is required to submit its memorial (its main written pleading), which addresses both jurisdiction and merits issues, by March 30, 2014. Normally, the respondent state (in this case China) would be given an equal amount of time (eight months) to submit its counter-memorial. Then, in the normal sequence, the parties would have had a second round of written pleadings, with the Philippines getting four or five months to submit a reply, and China getting the same amount of time to submit a rejoinder. However, since China has announced that it will not actively participate in the arbitration, the tribunal only fixed the date for the filing of the Philippines&#8217; memorial.

*How soon could we get a result?*

Arbitrations under the Law of the Sea Convention have normally taken between three and five years from beginning to end. However, in all those cases, there were two parties fighting it out. The proceedings will go a lot faster in this case if China holds to its current position not to actively participate. Since the tribunal has not yet decided on the procedure after the Philippines submits its memorial, it is difficult to predict how long beyond that date it will take to complete the arbitration. I imagine that, after reading our memorial, the members of the Tribunal will place themselves in China&#8217;s position and try to identify counter-arguments China might have made, and then give us a chance to address these hypothetical counter-arguments as well as any questions the members of the tribunal might have. I think the post-memorial process could take anywhere from six to 12 months [bringing us to] somewhere between April and October 2014 for the completion of the case.

*What exactly is Manila&#8217;s legal case?*

The Philippines&#8217; core claims are these:

1. The nine-dash line is inconsistent with international law, as set forth in the U.N. Convention on the Law of the Sea, and does not indicate China&#8217;s maritime entitlements in the South China Sea, which are limited to a 12-mile territorial sea, and a 200-mile continental shelf and exclusive economic zone.

2. The Philippines, like China (and the other coastal states along the South China Sea), has entitlements to a 12-mile territorial sea, and a 200-mile continental shelf and exclusive economic zone.

3. Scarborough Shoal is a &#8220;rock&#8221;, as defined in Article 121(3) of UNCLOS, such that it generates a maritime entitlement only to a 12-mile territorial sea, and not to a 200-mile continental shelf or exclusive economic zone. Thus, all of the water beyond 12 miles from Scarborough Shoal falls within the maritime entitlements of the Philippines, and not of China, out to a distance of 200 miles from the coast of Luzon.

4. Of the eight features in the Spratlys occupied by China, five are either submerged reefs or low-tide elevations (upon which China has constructed installations), which generate no maritime entitlement, and three are &#8220;rocks&#8221; that generate entitlements only out to 12 miles. The conclusion is that China&#8217;s maritime entitlements in the South China Sea, beyond 200 miles from its mainland coast, are very limited. It is possible that China gets nothing from these features. Sovereignty over Scarborough and the three Spratly rocks is contested, and the tribunal does not have jurisdiction to decide questions of sovereignty over islands.

*Who will speak for China on the tribunal?*

The arbitrators are required to satisfy themselves that the Philippines&#8217; claims are well-grounded in fact and law. They have many means at their disposal to do this. They can access publicly available maps and charts, and scholarly studies of the insular features put in issue by the Philippines. They can hire technical experts to advise them. They can review China&#8217;s laws, decrees and announcements and explanations about the nine-dash line, and its other maritime claims in the South China Sea.

*Does Foley Hoag worry about offending China?*

[In previous legal cases] my Foley Hoag colleagues and I faced a choice: fight for justice, or avoid antagonizing the rich and powerful who could, if we cultivated them instead of suing them, become very profitable clients for the firm. Because we became lawyers to fight for justice, we have never hesitated in making these choices.

*What if China simply ignores a judgment that goes against it?*

In more than 95% of international cases &#8212; litigation and arbitration before various international courts and tribunals &#8212; the states comply with the judgment, even if they are unhappy with it. There are at least two reasons for this. First is reputation and the influence that comes with it. The second reason is that many states understand it is to their advantage, and the advantage of others, to live in a rules-based system. Now, in the case of China, we see a country that is a great power that wishes to project its influence across the international community. China also advertises itself as the anti-imperialist great power, in contrast to the U.S., Russia and others. Think of the economic advantages that will accrue to the richest and most powerful nation in the region if these disputes are resolved and investment in resource extraction from the South China Sea begins.

Q&A: Paul Reichler of Law Firm Foley Hoag on Representing Philippines Vs. China Over South China Sea Claims - Southeast Asia Real Time - WSJ

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## GR!FF!N

sincity said:


> *Can Native Indian Bring US to court and win back their land?* Can South Tibet and Tibet bring both China and Indian to court and win back their land? This lawsuit has no merit at all.




buddy,are you sure from USA???then you shouldn't ask this question in the red..

read this...



> The Sioux have declined to accept the money,[31] because acceptance would legally terminate Sioux demands for return of the Black Hills.* The money remains in a Bureau of Indian Affairs account accruing compound interest and as of 2010 the amount is reported to exceed $570 million. As of Aug. 24, 2011 the Sioux interest on their money has compounded to over 1 billion dollars.*



United States v. Sioux Nation of Indians - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


as for Tibet vs China(I don't know why you're dragging India as Tawang became part of India due to Simla Accord as well as Anglo-Russian Accord which Tibet itself signed),China don't recognise Tibet as separate entity.unless we see China being disintegrate like SU,there is very little Chance that Tibet will ever gain independence.

as for Philippines' move to International Arbitration court,its a smart move.if China fight this in court,they'll surely loose(as their claim is so ridiculous).and if they not,Philippines will come victorious and prove to the whole world that China is unfairly claiming those islands/shoals/water.its a win win scenario.China may patrol as much as they wish,but if they loose the case,they'll be seen as an aggressor by the whole world.just like our winning against Pakistan (almost,as they are now claiming conspiracy)shut them up.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Aneso

Notwithstanding China's commitment to implement Declaration of the Conduct of Parties in South China Sea (DOC) based on the norms of International Law and to formulate and implement the Code of Conduct (COC) as well as to resolve the South China Sea disputes peacefully through negotiations, its policies are working just in the opposite direction escalating tension in the region. The serious implications of its aggressive acts and postures are palpable to all who have interests in the South China Sea (SCS).

China following a well-crafted strategy is systematically moving to establish its control over the area it claims in SCS. As a first step, it formed a Committee of thirteen agencies/departments in February 2012 to fabricate evidence and publicise its claims over the most area in SCS shown through the nine dotted lines. After it made recommendations, China in its new biometric passports projected all the areas in the SCS as belonging to China. These passports also show parts of India as belonging to China. This act of China generated a strong reaction in the neighbouring countries as also in other countries using SCS for trade. While both Vietnam and the Philippines refused to stamp the Chinese travel documents, India began to stamp its own version of the Indian Territory. Jakarta called the Chinese act as counter-productive and the US described these Chinese passports as unhelpful to the resolution of disputes. The second step was the establishment of the prefectural level city of Sansha to administer the Paracel and Spratly Islands in June 2012. Soon after this, China created a military command base there. And as the third step of its strategy, China declared that its police in the Southern Chinese Island of Hainan on the SCS has been authorised to board and search any ship they deem illegal in the "Chinese waters". The new regulations are to be enforced from the 1st January 2013.

All these acts of China are in fact potential triggers for conflicts in the region. China is also continuing with its provocative actions. On 30th November, 2012 Vietnam accused a Chinese fishing boat for cutting the cables of its exploration vessel Binh Minh 02. On expected lines, China on the other hand stated that Vietnam expelled its fishing vessels from its waters. The cutting of cables by China has been criticised even by Chinese security experts like Professor Zhu Feng of International Relations at Peking University. China has also stated that its patrol boats would be around Scarborough Shoal. Such provocative acts can result into a conflict. China is now seen as creator of hurdles in the steps being taken by ASEAN to resolve the issue peacefully. The Chinese reluctance to discuss the issue at multilateral forums continues. The ASEAN July meeting in Cambodia clearly established that China keeps on using its influence on Cambodia, the present Chair of ASEAN to ensure that the SCS disputes are not properly discussed. Even the recent ASEAN Summit reflected that the issue remains hostage to the Chinese policy of not allowing proper discussion and projection of the disputes. The neighbours of China also see that the Chinese modernisation of the armed forces at a break-neck speed is not meant to defend its interests but to threaten them into submission. The recent landing of J 15 on the newly acquired air-craft carrier has alarmed the powers interested in the region. They also note that Chinese official defence budget has crossed $106 bn this year. 

The Chinese policies and posture are causing an armed race in the SCS region. While Vietnam and Philippines are looking to acquire arms to counter the Chinese activities, Japan is also re-orienting its defence policy. Outside powers are now becoming more assertive in stating that they intend to protect the freedom of navigation. In addition, they are also guided by their strategic objectives. US not only have Asia pivot policy but are clearly taking steps to protect the US interests by enhancing their presences in this region. The situation can be rightly termed as alarming. The security experts in China's neighbouring nations are getting seriously concerned about the Chinese activities. Their security experts point out that modernisation of the Chinese Navy is a major security concern. They point out that the Chinese rise is not peaceful. They are suggesting that suitable up-gradation of their armed forces is imperative in view of developing security environment. 

An assessment of the situation reveal clearly that the Chinese posturing and activities have moved up from being merely "a concern" to "a serious threat" to the region's stability. Such Chinese activities have made the situation highly explosive. Even an unintended incident can act as a trigger for a conflict. Today the South China Sea stands very close to a conflict than ever before. The moot question is whether something can be done at this stage or not to save the world from a conflict. The Chinese leaders, who have great sense for learning from historical experiences, should be able to see that their activities are not in their interests. They are getting marginalised in the International Community. The present policy of International Community of managing and engaging China has limits and the moment China crosses the proverbial Rubicon, the concerned powers would abandon this policy and resort to arms to protect their interests. It may be recalled that before the Second World War, UK had adopted the policy of "Appeasement" which was also followed by France and others to a point but when Hitler's Germany decided to attack Poland, they abandoned it and the war followed. Peace loving people do not like to hear the "sound of cannons" but when it comes to protecting their national interests, they would not mind listening to cancerous sound of guns. 

Chinese new leadership which has interest in expanding the trade with ASEAN, should see that these nations provide an excellent market for their products. Another aspect that the Chinese should realise is the fact that the South China Sea disputes are multi-lateral in nature and have to be discussed at multi-lateral forums involving all parties in the disputes. Fortunately there are some experts in China who understand this aspect. 

The International Community too has a responsibility in nudging and pressurising all the involved nations to come to an agreement. There had not been sufficient pressure on China to abandon the present posture which is not conducive for peace. The International Community has been in fact whetting the appetite of China by following a policy of inaction. There has been a view amongst the security community that China is testing waters by provocative steps and is gauging the tolerance limit. The time has come that a unified approach is adopted to deal with China. Keeping in view the Chinese economic interests, China would not be able to ignore such an action. The International Community should put pressure on China to stop provocative steps and take steps for the resolution of the issue. There are number of drafts which have been produced by experts for Code of Conduct (COC) for South China Sea. These should be seriously considered rather than waiting for suitable environment. The implementation of an agreed COC would at least ensure that no untoward incident takes place. 

The coming India ASEAN meet in the third week of this month would be another opportunity to discuss the South China Sea issue and come up with some reasonable suggestion. It is understood that final resolution may be difficult to arrive at but COC can be evolved for ensuring peace in the region. The India should take a lead in this direction. India has sufficient experience in dealing with China. Despite 15 rounds of talks there has been practically no progress on the border issue. In addition like in the SCS China continues with provocative actions like intruding on the Indian Territory, writing China on the Indian rocks and objecting presence of Indians from the North East India or J&K in military delegations. Two former Special Representatives and former National Security Advisors of India had noted the Chinese game plan. While Sri M.K.Narayanan had stated that China is playing a waiting game, late Sri Brijesh Mishra had pointed out the need to take help of US to resolve all the issues including our interests in the SCS. The recent round of talks clearly indicated the Chinese strategy of not dealing with the issue of the border dispute but avoiding the main issue by projecting that the talks have broader goals of development, mutual cooperation and inclusive growth. In the past Chinese had come up with double meaning guidelines and frameworks. Indian leadership needs to see this clearly and work out a strategy with ASEAN and other nations for the resolution of its border issue and the SCS which is important to all.

By SD Pradhan, The Times of India.


----------



## Bienvenido

sincity said:


> Can Native Indian Bring US to court and win back their land? Can South Tibet and Tibet bring both China and Indian to court and win back their land? This lawsuit has no merit at all.


I remember Chinese FM Spokeperson Hong Lei saying that "China has sufficient historical and jurisprudence evidence to support its claim to the Nansha islands, which are located in the South China Sea and their adjacent waters."

I was like really? Come on then why can't you submit yourself to the international arbitration body? 

If you are a responsible member of the international community, then you should not turn your back but rather face the accusation you are claiming to be false, and prove that it is indeed false. Am I right?

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Bienvenido

sincity said:


> This lawsuit has no merit at all.


Does this mean that if a Neanderthal comes out now and say "I own the world because me and my forefathers was the first one to walk the earth" would make them owner of 5 continent? Can Armstrong say I own the moon because historically I was the first man to walk on it. Things must be governed by rule of law and not a greed.


----------



## northeast

What can a toothless western puppet tribunal do to china today.I think we have made it clear that we legally own the SCS and we don't give a **** about what westerners think.This whole tribunal thing is only a joke that even more funnier than the so call UN army got beaten upside down in NK&#65292;this time they don't even have the guts to form an army&#65292;lol.


----------



## Bienvenido

northeast said:


> What can a toothless western puppet tribunal do to china today.I think we have made it clear that we legally own the SCS and we don't give a **** about what westerners think.This whole tribunal thing is only a joke that even more funnier than the so call UN army got beaten upside down in NK&#65292;this time they don't even have the guts to form an army&#65292;lol.


You are just allergic to legal means because you thrive on doing illegal things.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## northeast

Bienvenido said:


> You are just allergic to legal means because you thrive on doing illegal things.


We don't need to do what is legal according to westerners' laws.We are the next superpower&#65292;we need a new law that fit our own profit like what US and Europe doing.


----------



## Bienvenido

northeast said:


> We don't need to do what is legal according to westerners' laws.We are the next superpower&#65292;we need a new law that fit our own profit like what US and Europe doing.


Now your accusing the UN arbitration as a westerners' laws is the lamest excuse I've heard from. What next "super power"? If you can't follow the international laws that we have all agreed and signed upon then you have no place in the international community. You should be isolated and sanctioned like your favorite rogue pet N. Korea.


----------



## northeast

Bienvenido said:


> Now your accusing the UN arbitration as a westerners' laws is the lamest excuse I've heard from. What next "super power"? If you can't follow the international laws that we have all agreed and signed upon then you have no place in the international community. You should be isolated and sanctioned like your favorite rogue pet N. Korea.


Of course it's westerners' law,and even according to the law,the UN arbitration don't have the right to judge who owns SCS&#65292;not to mention they don't have any means to force China to follow their out-dated law.So all these things mean that the whole thing is just another boring Blame China game.


----------



## Bienvenido

northeast said:


> Of course they are westerners' law&#65292;and even according to the law&#65292;the
> UN arbitration don't have the right to judge who owns SCS&#65292;not to mention they don't have any means to force China to follow their out-dated law.So all these things mean that the whole thing is just another boring &#8221;Blame China&#8221; game.


It only proves China don't have any respect. You are enemy of the free world masquerading as friend. You cannot use SCS as "extension chord" to connect your maritime boundary to our territorial waters. Anyway this action does not in anyway complicate the purpose and intent of our country. The same action will not only strengthen our position but will amass sympathies form other countries and the UN as well. No nation who adheres to the principle of the UN will do such thing, unless you are ready to be isolated. The pressure is now yours.


----------



## j20dragon

Bienvenido said:


> It only proves China don't have any respect. You are enemy of the free world masquerading as friend. You cannot use SCS as "extension chord" to connect your maritime boundary to our territorial waters. Anyway this action does not in anyway complicate the purpose and intent of our country. The same action will not only strengthen our position but will amass sympathies form other countries and the UN as well. No nation who adheres to the principle of the UN will do such thing, unless you are ready to be isolated. The pressure is now yours.



I always find it laughable that people think the UNCLOS arbitration will force our hand, or can even claim we violate the law. Truth of the matter is, we have the "ace card" which turn UNCLOS into a game of "he says, she says", endless debate without ever providing concrete evidence. Shall we look at our "ace card"?

To understand UNCLOS, everyone must understand that each country has the "right" to make a declaration before ratification of any new law on UNCLOS for what each states agree and NOT agree. 

China made this "key" statement, which is extremely important regarding dispute settlement and UNCLOS.



> Upon ratification (7 June 1996)1/:
> 
> In accordance with the decision of the Standing Committee of the Eighth National People's Congress of the People's Republic of China at its nineteenth session, the President of the People's Republic of China has hereby ratified the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea of 10 December 1982 and at the same time made the following statement:
> 
> 1. In accordance with the provisions of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, the People's Republic of China shall enjoy sovereign rights and jurisdiction over an exclusive economic zone of 200 nautical miles and the continental shelf.
> 
> 2. The People's Republic of China will effect, through consultations, the delimitation of the boundary of the maritime jurisdiction with the States with coasts opposite or adjacent to China respectively on the basis of international law and in accordance with the principle of equitability.
> 
> 3. The People's Republic of China reaffirms its sovereignty over all its archipelagos and islands as listed in article 2 of the Law of the People's Republic of China on the territorial sea and the contiguous zone, which was promulgated on 25 February 1992.
> 
> 4. The People's Republic of China reaffirms that the provisions of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea concerning innocent passage through the territorial sea shall not prejudice the right of a coastal State to request, in accordance with its laws and regulations, a foreign State to obtain advance approval from or give prior notification to the coastal State for the passage of its warships through the territorial sea of the coastal State.
> 
> Declaration made after ratification (25 August 2006)
> 
> Declaration under article 298:
> 
> *The Government of the People's Republic of China* does *not accept* any of the *procedures *provided for in *Section 2 of Part XV of the Convention* with respect to all the categories of disputes referred to in *paragraph 1 (a) (b) and (c) of Article 298 of the Convention*.



Shall we look in detail of what we will not agree when ratifying the new law?



> *Article 298*
> 
> Optional exceptions to applicability of section 2
> 
> 1.	When signing, ratifying or acceding to this Convention or at any time thereafter, a State may, without prejudice to the obligations arising under section 1, declare in writing that it does not accept any one or more of the procedures provided for in section 2 with respect to one or more of the following categories of disputes:
> 
> (a) (i)	disputes concerning the interpretation or application of *articles 15, 74 and 83* relating to sea boundary delimitations, or those involving historic bays or titles, provided that a State having made such a declaration shall, when such a dispute arises subsequent to the entry into force of this Convention and where no agreement within a reasonable period of time is reached in negotiations between the parties, at the request of any party to the dispute, accept submission of the matter to conciliation under Annex V, section 2; and provided further that any dispute that necessarily involves the concurrent consideration of any unsettled dispute concerning sovereignty or other rights over continental or insular land territory shall be excluded from such submission;
> 
> (ii)	after the conciliation commission has presented its report, which shall state the reasons on which it is based, the parties shall negotiate an agreement on the basis of that report; if these negotiations do not result in an agreement, the parties shall, by mutual consent, submit the question to one of the procedures provided for in section 2, unless the parties otherwise agree;
> 
> (iii)	this subparagraph does not apply to any sea boundary dispute finally settled by an arrangement between the parties, or to any such dispute which is to be settled in accordance with a bilateral or multilateral agreement binding upon those parties;
> 
> (b)	disputes concerning military activities, including military activities by government vessels and aircraft engaged in non-commercial service, and disputes concerning law enforcement activities in regard to the exercise of sovereign rights or jurisdiction excluded from the jurisdiction of a court or tribunal under article 297, paragraph 2 or 3;
> 
> (c)	disputes in respect of which the Security Council of the United Nations is exercising the functions assigned to it by the Charter of the United Nations, unless the Security Council decides to remove the matter from its agenda or calls upon the parties to settle it by the means provided for in this Convention.


Shall we look deeper in the Article 15, 74, 83 that we did not agree with?



> *Article15*
> 
> Delimitation of the territorial sea between States
> 
> with opposite or adjacent coasts
> 
> Where the coasts of two States are opposite or adjacent to each other, neither of the two States is entitled, failing agreement between them to the contrary, to extend its territorial sea beyond the median line every point of which is equidistant from the nearest points on the baselines from which the breadth of the territorial seas of each of the two States is measured. The above provision does not apply, however, where it is necessary by reason of historic title or other special circumstances to delimit the territorial seas of the two States in a way which is at variance therewith.
> 
> *Article 74
> *
> Delimitation of the exclusive economic zone
> 
> between States with opposite or adjacent coasts
> 
> 1.	The delimitation of the exclusive economic zone between States with opposite or adjacent coasts shall be effected by agreement on the basis of international law, as referred to in Article 38 of the Statute of the International Court of Justice, in order to achieve an equitable solution.
> 
> 2.	If no agreement can be reached within a reasonable period of time, the States concerned shall resort to the procedures provided for in Part XV.
> 
> 3.	Pending agreement as provided for in paragraph 1, the States concerned, in a spirit of understanding and cooperation, shall make every effort to enter into provisional arrangements of a practical nature and, during this transitional period, not to jeopardize or hamper the reaching of the final agreement. Such arrangements shall be without prejudice to the final delimitation.
> 
> 4.	Where there is an agreement in force between the States concerned, questions relating to the delimitation of the exclusive economic zone shall be determined in accordance with the provisions of that agreement.
> 
> *Article 83
> *
> Delimitation of the continental shelf
> 
> between States with opposite or adjacent coasts
> 
> 1.	The delimitation of the continental shelf between States with opposite or adjacent coasts shall be effected by agreement on the basis of international law, as referred to in Article 38 of the Statute of the International Court of Justice, in order to achieve an equitable solution.
> 
> 2.	If no agreement can be reached within a reasonable period of time, the States concerned shall resort to the procedures provided for in Part XV.
> 
> 3.	Pending agreement as provided for in paragraph 1, the States concerned, in a spirit of understanding and cooperation, shall make every effort to enter into provisional arrangements of a practical nature and, during this transitional period, not to jeopardize or hamper the reaching of the final agreement. Such arrangements shall be without prejudice to the final delimitation.
> 
> 4.	Where there is an agreement in force between the States concerned, questions relating to the delimitation of the continental shelf shall be determined in accordance with the provisions of that agreement.



Fact is we do not accept these articles and disputing states have no right to infringe on our territorial claim when we agreed when ratified UNCLOS. These are what we said when ratified:

*"The People's Republic of China reaffirms its sovereignty over all its archipelagos and islands as listed in article 2 of the Law of the People's Republic of China on the territorial sea and the contiguous zone, which was promulgated on 25 February 1992."
*

In other words, we always reaffirm our territorial claims. It is up to other dispute parties to prove our territorial claims are invalid, which is a tough task considered we have many historical evidence, treaties, and among the legal right of acquiescence of disputing states. If you understand the legal definition of "Acquiescence" in the court of law, you will understand why our territorial rights are unchallenged. 

So why didn't we agree to arbitration, you may ask, if we are confident to win any territorial dispute? It's simple. First, there is no legal procedure that can force our hand. Second, we did not violate any UNCLOS by making that "Declaration" and as such UNCLOS credibility is intact when a great power, as China, did not break any agreements we obligated to follow... And lastly, the 9-dotted line may lack sufficient "moral" justification to make a claim, which is why we are hesitated to clearly clarified as a strategic attempt to keep disputing countries from "guessing" or attempting to understand a strategy to advance their interest. 

We can win all territorial disputes in the court of law but we will lose the moral justification. We understand this, which is why we will not go to arbitration.


----------



## Viet

Bienvenido said:


> I remember Chinese FM Spokeperson Hong Lei saying that "China has sufficient *historical and jurisprudence evidence* to support its claim to the Nansha islands, which are located in the South China Sea and their adjacent waters."
> 
> I was like really? Come on then why can't you submit yourself to the international arbitration body?
> 
> If you are a responsible member of the international community, then you should not turn your back but rather face the accusation you are claiming to be false, and prove that it is indeed false. Am I right?


Chinese are naked, their so-called historical and jurisprudence evidence are based on thin air and lie. Good move Pinoy.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## j20dragon

Viet said:


> Chinese are naked, their so-called historical and jurisprudence evidence are based on thin air and lie. Good move Pinoy.


Truth is, and every non-observers already know... Your Vietnamese regime is using the same "historical and jurisprudence" to justify their claim. LOL Another fact is when it comes to "understand the law and manipulation of law", both Vietnam and Philippine are not smart enough, which is why your government is hiring western lawyers to fight for you.


----------



## walle

lol this man represented Nicaragua vs the US, the US lost that one but did anything change? They gave the International court the middle finger and carried on their business.


----------



## j20dragon

LOL When it comes to international law, China and the USA are the best at manipulating it to our advantage. We understand each other too well. Different approach, but same outcome. The US chose to ignore UNCLOS completely, while we participated but only the one favorable to our national interest. This give us a leeway to maneuver everything. HAHA I must admit, we Chinese are inherently smarter than most country.


----------



## GR!FF!N

northeast said:


> We don't need to do what is legal according to westerners' laws.We are the next superpower&#65292;we need a new law that fit our own profit like what US and Europe doing.



But China is still heading the "Westerner's UN's Security Council"????shouldn't they leave that biased and corrupt organisation immediately???or is it China just wants to enjoy all the benefits of UN but oppose to follow its rules??


----------



## Minjitta

EastSea said:


> I like to say that there is no "beat" but ready to "defend" our self first. T&#7921; c&#7913;u tr&#432;&#7899;c khi tr&#7901;i c&#7913;u. and the model of politic system is both copied from Stalin model, not from China. Problem ís how to change it without riots and violations.


Vn needed to change her society, better education, health care, inftustructor, no corruption, only then the country transforms it self for the better.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## EastSea

no comment.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Soryu

Minjitta said:


> Vn needed to change her society, better education, health care, inftustructor, no corruption, only then the country transforms it self for the better.



We alway want those thing, all of us, bro.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

CCG 3174&#65306;


----------



## Bienvenido

j20dragon said:


> I always find it laughable that people think the UNCLOS arbitration will force our hand, or can even claim we violate the law. Truth of the matter is, we have the "ace card" which turn UNCLOS into a game of "he says, she says", endless debate without ever providing concrete evidence. Shall we look at our "ace card"?
> 
> To understand UNCLOS, everyone must understand that each country has the "right" to make a declaration before ratification of any new law on UNCLOS for what each states agree and NOT agree.
> 
> China made this "key" statement, which is extremely important regarding dispute settlement and UNCLOS.
> 
> 
> 
> Shall we look in detail of what we will not agree when ratifying the new law?
> 
> 
> Shall we look deeper in the Article 15, 74, 83 that we did not agree with?
> 
> 
> 
> Fact is we do not accept these articles and disputing states have no right to infringe on our territorial claim when we agreed when ratified UNCLOS. These are what we said when ratified:
> 
> *"The People's Republic of China reaffirms its sovereignty over all its archipelagos and islands as listed in article 2 of the Law of the People's Republic of China on the territorial sea and the contiguous zone, which was promulgated on 25 February 1992."
> *
> 
> In other words, we always reaffirm our territorial claims. It is up to other dispute parties to prove our territorial claims are invalid, which is a tough task considered we have many historical evidence, treaties, and among the legal right of acquiescence of disputing states. If you understand the legal definition of "Acquiescence" in the court of law, you will understand why our territorial rights are unchallenged.
> 
> So why didn't we agree to arbitration, you may ask, if we are confident to win any territorial dispute? It's simple. First, there is no legal procedure that can force our hand. Second, we did not violate any UNCLOS by making that "Declaration" and as such UNCLOS credibility is intact when a great power, as China, did not break any agreements we obligated to follow... And lastly, the 9-dotted line may lack sufficient "moral" justification to make a claim, which is why we are hesitated to clearly clarified as a strategic attempt to keep disputing countries from "guessing" or attempting to understand a strategy to advance their interest.
> 
> We can win all territorial disputes in the court of law but we will lose the moral justification. We understand this, which is why we will not go to arbitration.



First off, let me start with this question. Do you think you can do a better job in leading the free world? 

When you ratified the UNCLOS in 1996, you made a statement that you enjoy sovereign rights over its exclusive economic zone of 200 nm and the continental shelf. You also stated a law it passed in 1992 claiming islands in South China Sea including Taiwan and other disputed islands. Keep in mind that the UNCLOS was written in 1982. In both statements, Your country also stated that you will abide and respect the international law. 

If others are to respect China's 200nm EEZ and continental shelf, then you should in return respect your neighbors' territories. Even if you do not accept Sec 2 of Part XV of the Convention (which China did in 2006), Art 74 and 76 clearly defines the issue in South China Sea. 

Going back to my question above, You are establishing yourself as a major player in the world. But if you want the whole world to listen, you should not treat your neighbor like this. If you really want to settle the dispute then there are several choices. 

1. Choice of procedure under article 287 of the Convention
2. International Court of Justice
3. International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea
4. Arbitrators and Conciliators

Clearly, you don't want any international involvement because you don't want the international community to see you for what you really are. 

The way I see it. The reasons for you not participating in the UN tribunal because:

1. Philippines way of initiating the process are law-full and right. Your country, however wants to prolong the issue to maintain the status quo which is legal limbo and defacto Chinese rule through intimidation and force. Use of force is not amicable.

2. You delayed for as long as possible the signing of the Code of Conduct which was requested as early as 1995. This is not amicable.

3. You have no faith in the final outcome because you know you are breaking the laws that you yourselves agreed to and easily use it in your favor. This is not amicable as it is duplicitous.

4. The way Philippines handled the process is law-full and was forced by you (China) as a last resort. You want to prolong the current ambiguous status quo and be able to defacto enforce your rule in the South China Sea through force of arms. This is not amicable.

5. You still occupies Mischief reef which Chinese government admitted in 1996 was Philippine territory and that you will only use it as fisherman's sanctuary. You lied and built military structures. Now Scarborough shoals. This duplicitous and criminal behavior is not amicable.

Anyway I believe once the tribunal decides that the Philippines' claim is legitimate under UNCLOS, our claim will be legally recognized by the UN under UNCLOS. That will cement the grounds of our claim further and if you do not respect our entitlement, you will suffer badly especially your reputation around the world more so now that you looked at as a rising great power. Failure to cooperate would also further antagonize other Asian states Japan, India, Vietnam and other claimants in the dispute. Last possibility is that this could now be used as a valid raison d'être of an alliance among the smaller claimant nations against you.


----------



## Bienvenido

delete


----------



## Bienvenido

LOL so the topic was already merged here. I still can see a lot of topic running as a separate thread related to SCS that can also be merged here, yet there are also topics related to Chinese economy that they can also merged too. Not just SCS. Hmm seems they only choose 'some' what's not good for their eyes? 

Peace!


----------



## Bob Ong

Bienvenido said:


> I remember Chinese FM Spokeperson Hong Lei saying that "China has sufficient historical and jurisprudence evidence to support its claim to the Nansha islands, which are located in the South China Sea and their adjacent waters."
> 
> I was like really? Come on then why can't you submit yourself to the international arbitration body?
> 
> If you are a responsible member of the international community, then you should not turn your back but rather face the accusation you are claiming to be false, and prove that it is indeed false. Am I right?


Dear China: if you claim those islands as yours, FIGHT for it DIPLOMATICALLY in UN Court! This is the 21st Century, not some Dynasty!


----------



## Minjitta

Soryu said:


> We alway want those thing, all of us, bro.


Want is one thing question is does the government have the WILL. This will effects a lot of private interest groups that leads to current corruptions.



cirr said:


> CCG 3174&#65306;



hehehe it china coast guard not South China Coast guard, so who care.


----------



## Eliter

157	&#21335;&#27801;	&#35199;&#26376;&#23707;
X&#299;yuè D&#462;o	11o05	115o02	&#32418;&#33609;&#23769;	Xiyue Dao, West York Island





ä¼*æ*å¾æçåæµ·å²ç¤å½±åå¾ï¼æ´æ°å¤ªå¹³å²å¾ï¼ -


----------



## Eliter

122	&#21335;&#27801;	&#22826;&#24179;&#23707;
Tàipíng D&#462;o	10o23&#8217;	114o22&#8217;	&#40644;&#23665;&#39532; &#40644;&#23665;&#39532;&#23769; Taiping Dao, Itu Aba Island






ä¼*æ*å¾æçåæµ·å²ç¤å½±åå¾ï¼æ´æ°å¤ªå¹³å²å¾ï¼ -


----------



## GR!FF!N

The Royal Malaysian Navy (RMN) is creating a marine corps and establishing a new naval base in the South China Sea near waters it disputes with China, IHS Janes reported this week, citing a press release from Defense Minister Hishammuddin Tun Hussein.

According to the defense ministers statement, the new naval base will be built in Bintulu on the South China Sea (SCS) for the explicit purpose of protecting nearby waters and oil reserves. As Janes points out, however, the base will be located just 60 miles from the James Shoal, an area in the South China Sea claimed by both Malaysia and China.

Back in March a PLA amphibious task force conducted a large naval exercise in the James Shoal.

It is not just a few ships here and there, but a crack amphibious landing ship carrying marines and hovercraft and backed by some of the best escort ships in the PLAN fleet, Gary Li, a senior analyst with IHS Fairplay, told Asian Correspondent at the time.

We've never seen anything like this that far south in terms of quantity or quality  it is hard to know whether it is just coincidence, but it does seem to reflect [President] Xi Jinping's desire for more practical operationally based exercises, Li added.

IHS Janes said that establishment of the Marine Corps will be partly used to deal with Sulu militants who have caused unrest in Sabah in eastern Malaysia. The Marine Corps will be drawn from Malaysias existing services as the overall size of the armed forces is capped. It has not been determined which of the services the Marine Corps will fall under.

IHS Janes said that Malaysia will rely on the expertise of the U.S. Marines Corps (USMC) to help develop the new Marine force.

Malaysia is keen to draw on the USMC's expertise and has been in discussions with the United States (US) over support, training and expertise exchange, the report said.

Initially, the Malaysian marine corps will lack an amphibious naval platform as the RMNs only amphibious ship, the Newport-class landing ship-tank KD Sri Inderapura, was destroyed in a fire in 2009. It is currently in discussions with both France and South Korea over acquiring a landing platform deck (LPD). The U.S. has also offered Malaysia the LPD USS Denver after it decommissions it in 2014. U.S.-based defense companies are also discussing selling Malaysia the AH-1Z Super Cobra attack helicopters.

Malaysias decision to establish a naval base in the South China Sea is in line with other Southeast Asian nations that are locked in territorial disputes with China over the waters. As The Diplomat reported last week, the Philippines is creating a new naval base on Oyster Bay, Palawan Island. Vietnam is similarly expanding its Cam Ranh Bay naval base and offering foreign navies greater access to it. 


Malaysia to Establish Marine Corps and South China Sea Naval Base | Flashpoints | The Diplomat

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Rechoice

Eliter said:


> 122	&#21335;&#27801;	&#22826;&#24179;&#23707;
> Tàipíng D&#462;o	10o23&#8217;	114o22&#8217;	&#40644;&#23665;&#39532; &#40644;&#23665;&#39532;&#23769; Taiping Dao, Itu Aba Island
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ä¼*æ&#8217;*å&#8250;¾æ&#8211;&#8225;ç&#8240;&#710;å&#8212;æµ·å²&#8250;ç¤å½±å&#402;å&#8250;¾ï¼&#710;æ&#8250;´æ&#8211;°å¤ªå¹³å²&#8250;å&#8250;¾ï¼&#8240; -



illegally occupied by Taiwan in 1956.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## j20dragon

SOUTHEAST ASIA
October 21, 2013
By Lucio Blanco Pitlo III and Amruta Karambelkar

Among the claimants and littoral states of the South China Sea (SCS), the Philippines and Vietnam have been the most vocal in expressing their alarm and concern over growing Chinese assertiveness in this strategic and resource-rich regional commons. Because of their power asymmetry vis-à-vis China, which has the most extensive claims to the SCS, Manila and Hanoi have been supporters of the U.S. pivot to Asia, to balance against Beijings growing maritime power projection, while also using diplomatic outreach to cultivate as many supporters as possible. The Philippines has been bolstering its defense and maritime law enforcement with the help of the U.S. and Japan. Vietnam is meanwhile relying on its traditional partners  India and Russia  as additional cushions against possible excesses of Chinas rise to power in the region. Both countries are also seeking support from ASEAN.

The SCS dispute took a notable turn when Philippines went to UN arbitration to challenge Chinas nine-dashed line. The claimants had to that point sought to manage the dispute through regional mechanisms and bilateral talks. Not surprisingly, then, Manilas move has irked Beijing, which has been insistent on not internationalizing the dispute. While it may be premature to assess Manilas strategy at this stage, it is interesting to examine the factors that led to parallels, as well as variances, in the strategies taken by Manila and Hanoi via-à-vis Chinas increasing assertiveness in the SCS.

Vietnams strategies are shaped by its history, economy and geographical proximity with China. Vietnams economy is highly reliant on its trade and investments with China and this dependency limits Vietnams actions. Yet of all the disputants, it is Vietnam that has lost the most ground to China in the SCS  the Paracels in 1974 and part of the Spratlys (Johnson South Reef and Fiery Cross Reef) in 1988. Hence, Hanoi has many axes to grind against China in the SCS. Both countries have also contested offshore blocks each has awarded to foreign energy players and have traded accusations of arrests and harassment of their fishermen. However, alongside these clashes are positive milestones such as the demarcation of their common land boundary, establishment of a joint fishing zone in Tonkin Gulf and more recently the creation of a fishery hotline that could greatly aid in mitigating incidents at sea arising from overlapping fishing grounds. As two socialist countries with a history of competition and cooperation (they were Cold War and Vietnam War allies), many channels, official and semi-official, including Party-to-Party talks, have served as platforms to ensure that tensions are kept at manageable levels and not allowed to affect other aspects of bilateral relations, notably trade and investment. In fact, just recently, the two countries signed 12 agreements to enhance bilateral cooperation in the areas of trade, infrastructure, energy and maritime affairs, and set up a working group to look into joint exploration in SCS.

This status quo would seem to be an achievement of Chinese diplomacy, mitigating conflict with Vietnam at a time when Beijing is embroiled in another dispute with the Philippines, likewise over the SCS. When it comes to Vietnam, China would seem to have employed the right strategy at the right time. Bilateral relations therefore appear unhindered despite the territorial and maritime disputes, giving Vietnam little motivation to do what the Philippines has done, and challenge Beijings claims before an international body.

Of course, Vietnam has continued to raise the SCS in ASEAN forums. It is also trying to improve relations with the U.S., and is consulting with the Philippines on mutual concerns. Although Vietnam has shown some support for Manilas move to arbitrate, this backing is unlikely to graduate to a united Hanoi-Manila front versus Beijing. Again, Hanoi is constrained in its options for dealing with Beijing, and cannot afford a bold stand, save for fiery rhetoric. It will continue to express its dissatisfaction with China through the likes of the ASEAN Regional Forum, which serves as an international outlet given the participation of extra regional powers. Meanwhile, like other ASEAN countries, and especially those with SCS claims, Vietnam will watch closely the outcome of Manilas arbitration bid and may reshape its strategies accordingly. Given Manilas legal challenge, it can be argued that the Chinese leadership may be more willing to compromise with Hanoi just to isolate Manila and prevent the creation of a united front against Beijings sweeping SCS claims.

The Philippines SCS strategy, meanwhile, is motivated by a perceived Chinese westward push at its expense. Despite long administering the largest features in the Spratlys, Manilas military capabilities are limited. The occupation of Mischief Reef came about two years after the removal of the U.S. bases, and marked the point at which the much talked-about China threat became a reality. Since then, Beijing has intensified its fortifications and naval presence in the area. As a militarily disadvantaged state, Manilas fallback rested on its 1951 Mutual Defense Treaty with the U.S.. But warming Sino-U.S. relations, especially on the economic front, may put limits on what Manila can expect from its traditional ally. The fear that a Sino-U.S. understanding on the SCS, wherein Washington tacitly acquiesces to Beijing consolidating its position in the semi-enclosed sea, may also become an emerging consideration, making it imperative for the Philippines to diversify its security partners to give it more room for independent action. Nonetheless, the U.S. remains important to the Philippines for trade and security, despite the ups and downs in relations. Manila closed the U.S. bases in Subic and Clark in 1991 but allowed U.S. forces to come back in 1999 through the Visiting Forces Agreement, and has since been a major ally in the war against terrorism. Manila is a natural partner in Washingtons rebalancing strategy. The Philippines is also strengthening ties with Japan, which has its own disputes with China, in the East China Sea. This power web can help the Philippines absorb retaliatory measures from China, and as such may have emboldened Manila to take a stand against Beijing.

It might therefore be said that power arrangements and alignments dictate the strategies of Vietnam and the Philippines. Moreover, in contrast to Vietnam, the Philippines does not have a large trade and investment dependency with China, as the U.S. and Japan are still its primary primary trade and aid partners. True, Sino-Philippine economic ties have been growing, and certainly the Philippines felt the effects of Chinas decision to curb banana imports and block tourism. However, the comparatively low level of economic engagement means that Chinese economic sanctions are not enough to make Manila bend, at least for now. For instance, the Philippines has been able to offset the loss of the Chinese market for its bananas by exporting to the U.S.

Nevertheless, the rise of China and relative decline of the U.S. will continue to cast a long shadow over the SCS. Although some ASEAN countries have welcomed the U.S. rebalancing, most have developed deep economic ties with China over the years. The SCS thus has the potential to become a divisive issue within the regional grouping. This creates the impression among some Philippine leaders that ASEAN may no longer be a reliable or effective forum for engaging China on the SCS issue. Countries that have traditional and unresolved disputes with China, like Japan and India, may extend some support to smaller SCS claimants, but their commitment when push comes to shove remains to be seen.

The SCS has strategic, security, economic and political importance for both the Philippines and Vietnam. Both countries see their claimed SCS areas as vital elements of national security, important trade channels, traditional fishing grounds and a source of indigenous offshore energy resources, not to mention as integral components of their territory. However, particular historical, economic and politico-security considerations have prompted the two countries to develop divergent SCS strategies, especially in terms of dealing with China.

---------------------

Looks like the Vietnamese is smarter than Filipino. In fact, I applause the Vietnamese for being smart afterall they are a historically a sinosphere country as oppose to the Philippine.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Minjitta

To all SCS dispute nations bring your LOCK to lockup SCS


----------



## Dillinger

@Chinese-Dragon Makes no sense, pardon me but I haven't been keeping track of the far east, since I haven't heard of any overt tensions between PRC and Malaysia. They might have a dispute in the SCS but so far Malaysia wasn't sounding the bugle about it. What gives, what sort of relations does Malaysia have with the States and Japan?

Its odd though. Australia is just about to get its LHD (Navantia's Athlas 26000/Canberra, the first of a pair), Japan has understood the worth of a LHA with the larger Izumo and Textron LCAC combo, South Korea already operates the Dokdo. It seems as if everyone in the region is going majorly amphib (something that used to be strictly the US's purview in the last two decades). Now even India is going the LHD way. Lets not forget China's Type-071 LPDs and the Zubr (the latter meant for independent and relatively short legged ops). Let us see what sort of force projection Malaysia is planing, a pair of LPDs will do the job (from DCNS, Navantia or perhaps the Netherlands might pitch in with its co-developed amphib). Good times ahead for the OEMs.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Krueger

As a saying goes offense is the best defense.


----------



## Zero_wing

Oh please trying to make us fight and how are you measure intelligence what is your credentials to make such an assessment?

While everyone knows this front is nothing more than fit by you imperials because your not getting what you guys want heck your claims have no real basis on anything.


----------



## Rechoice

*Malaysia to construct naval base in disputed South China Sea.*

Malaysia's defense minister Hishammuddin Hussein declared on Oct. 10 that a new naval base will be constructed in the Bintulu Division of Sarawak, which is only 100 kilometers away from James Shoal, the southernmost point of the disputed Spratly islands, reports the Janes Defense Weekly.

The move aims to solidify the Malaysia's position over the disputed South China Sea, and the primary mission of the Royal Malaysian Navy base will be to protect its oil reserves in the surrounding areas, the report said. The defense minister said that a new Marine Corps unit will also be established for amphibious operations in Bintulu to defend the eastern Malaysian state from Sulu rebels. Hussein said that most of the unit's personnel will be drawn from the other three branches of the Malaysian armed forces. Meanwhile, he added that Malaysian security forces had successfully defeated a Sulu incursion in Sabah earlier this year.

The Janes Defense Weekly pointed out that the bulk of this new marine unit stationed in Bintulu will be redesignated from one of the 10th Parachute brigade's three battalions. In addition, officers and enlisted men from the 9th Royal Malay Regiment and 8th Royal Ranger Regiment may also be drawn because most of them have already received training in amphibious warfare and have experience in conducting joint landing exercises with the United States and France.

Hussein did not mention the potential threat of China to the sovereignty of Malaysia in the South China Sea, however. The People's Liberation Army Navy conducted an exercise on Mar. 26 near James Shoal in a show of strength that the Spratly islands is part of China's territory. Regarding Hussien's annoucements, the Global Times, a tabloid under the auspices of the Communist Party mouthpiece the People's Daily, said that the Malaysian navy may launch an amphibious attack from the new naval base in Bintulu.

The Spratly islands are contested territory in the South China Sea. The group of more than 750 reefs, islets, atolls, cays and islands are claimed in whole or in part by China, Malaysia, the Philippines, Brunei, Vietnam and Taiwan.

Malaysia to construct naval base in disputed South China Sea

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Eliter

248	&#20013;&#22269;&#21335;&#27801;	&#35199;&#30977;
China Nansha Islands X&#299; Ji&#257;o
8o49&#8217; - 8o53&#8217;	112o12&#8217; - 112o17&#8217;	
&#22823;&#24324;&#40763;	Xi Jiao
West Reef or West London Reef

1851X1520 1.3M






large pic 3702X3704 2.8M RAR

????248???????????_Eliter_????

??_Eliter_????

ä¼*æ*å¾æçåæµ·å²ç¤å½±åå¾ï¼æ´æ° è¥¿ç¤ é«æ¸å¾ï¼ -


----------



## Eliter

247 &#20013;&#22269;&#21335;&#27801; &#20013;&#30977;
China Nansha Islands Zh&#333;ng Ji&#257;o	
8o55&#8217;	112o22&#8217;	&#24324;&#40763;&#20180;	
Zhong Jiao, Central Reef

1920X3030 2.3M





large pic 3840X6060 6.8M RAR
ä¼*æ*å¾æçåæµ·å²ç¤å½±åå¾ï¼æ´æ° ä¸*ç¤ é«æ¸å¾ï¼ -

Eliter_????


----------



## longyi

(Reuters) - Philippine President Benigno Aquino said on Wednesday the concrete blocks found on a disputed shoal in the South China Sea are "very old", backtracking on Manila's earlier accusation that China was building new structures in the area.

In an embarrassing twist after foreign affairs and defense officials had accused China of preparing to build new structures on Scarborough Shoal, a group of rocks about 120 nautical miles off the coast of the main island of Luzon, Aquino said the blocks found within the shoal "are not a new phenomenon" and "some of them have barnacles attached to them."








Manila backtracks on South China Sea accusation against China | Reuters

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Pinoy

*PNoy bullish on code of conduct in West PH Sea*
Posted at 10/23/2013 






MANILA  President Benigno Aquino III remains bullish on the crafting of a binding code of conduct (COC) in the South China Sea.

At the Presidential Forum of the Foreign Correspondents Association of the Philippines (FOCAP), Aquino pointed out that the first meeting has already been held in Suzhou, China to discuss the formulation of the code aimed at easing tensions in the disputed territory, recognized in the Philippines as the West Philippine Sea.

The president said the Philippines will continue to pursue arbitration before the International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea despite China's refusal to take part in the proceedings.

"From the time in 2002 to 2013, we are starting to sit down and everybody has to show that image of cooperating and crafting the COC, which will undoubtedly ease the tension," Aquino said.

"We are undergoing arbitration. We are pursuing a second track with the COC. At the end of the day, either or both will seek to clarify everybody's entitlement with regards to this body of water."

Aquino said the code is important as the Declaration on the Conduct of the Parties in the South China Sea, which was crafted in 2002, was merely "motherhood principles, which had no operational components and was not in a sense legally binding."

- ANC Dateline Philippines, 23 October 2013

PNoy bullish on code of conduct in West PH Sea | ABS-CBN News


----------



## Pinoy

*India signs &#8216;West Philippine Sea&#8217; statement*
Shubhajit Roy : New Delhi, Tue Oct 22 2013

As Prime Minister Manmohan Singh meets the Chinese leadership in Beijing, India has signed a joint statement with Philippines which mentions South China Sea as 'West Philippine Sea' and has supported peaceful resolution of the dispute over the name, in accordance with the "freedom of navigation" and "rule of law".

Delhi's position in the face of an assertive Beijing on the South China Sea dispute came about in the joint statement after the 2nd meeting of the Philippines-India Joint Commission on Bilateral Cooperation on Monday in Manila.

Usually, India does not refer to South China Sea by any other name and only its internationally-used nomenclature.

India's position has been carefully crafted and the latest position was articulated by the Prime Minister at the East Asia summit in Brunei Daressalam on October 10.

With Delhi keeping a close watch on China's military modernisation and muscle-flexing on the South China Sea, it has always maintained that sovereignty over areas of the South China Sea is disputed between many countries in the region.

India signs West Philippine Sea statement - Indian Express


----------



## cirr

28.10.2013 CCG 2337 after receiving a major face-lift：


----------



## Fsjal

cirr said:


> 28.10.2013 CCG 2337 after receiving a major face-lift：


What's this "face lift" you are talking about?


----------



## Fsjal

http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/stor...sean-do-for-a-south-china-sea-code-of-conduct

On 14–15 September 2013, senior diplomats from China and the 10 ASEAN countries gathered in Suzhou, China, to discuss many subjects, most notably the process of hammering out a “code of conduct” (CoC) for the South China Sea.

For many, the talks have provided a degree of reassurance about improved freedom and safety of navigation in the hotly disputed sea — after all, a large percentage of the world’s trade, including shipments of oil, passes through the South China Sea. Some regional powers also saw the event as an opportunity to keep a closer eye on China; and nobody wants a conflict or even a quasi-military confrontation to disrupt what are generally regarded as peaceful – and lucrative – channels of trade.

But those who expect the ASEAN–China discussions to result in some kind of breakthrough that will lead quickly to a resolution are bound to be disappointed. There are several reasons for this, all having to do with fundamental differences between China and ASEAN on a variety of issues pertaining to a proposed CoC for the South China Sea.
The first is that, while ASEAN keeps calling for the “early conclusion” of a CoC, China has insisted on going slow. Beijing has been demanding the full and effective implementation of the 2002 Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea (DoC) before the conclusion of a CoC. (The DoC itself calls for “the adoption of a code of conduct in the South China Sea.”)

At their last formal meeting, on 30 June 2013, the ASEAN foreign ministers said they looked forward to “formal consultations between ASEAN and China at the SOM [senior officials’ meeting] level on the COC with an aim to reach an early conclusion of a Code of Conduct in the South China Sea.” On the other hand, shortly after the ASEAN and Chinese foreign ministers had agreed to engage in “official consultations” on the code “within the framework of the implementation of the DOC”, Xinhua news agency quoted Wang Yi, China’s new foreign minister, as warning against rushing work on the CoC.

Another issue is the coverage of the proposed CoC. Vietnam insists on the inclusion of the Paracel Islandsin any discussion on the South China Sea, for example, but China refuses to discuss the topic. In any case, China has not sufficiently elaborated on the nature of its nine-dash line by providing exact coordinates. So, where would the proposed CoC apply? How would it be enforced? The difficulty of these questions and the intractability of the disagreements around them forced the downgrading of the initial CoC to a DoC in 2002.

Another problem is the Chinese insistence on conducting bilateral discussions with individual claimants, all of which are ASEAN member states, and none of which is anywhere near matching China’s military power. Moreover, some of the Spratly Islands are claimed by more than two parties. How can there be “bilateral” negotiations in such cases?

ASEAN as a group has long been in talks with China and other parties about the South China Sea; in March 1995, as a reaction to Philippine complaints about China’s occupation of Mischief Reef, all ASEAN foreign ministers issued a statement expressing their “serious concern over recent developments which affect peace and stability in the South China Sea.” But most fundamental is the disagreement about how to reconcile the claimants’ national interests and the rule of international law. Although claimants in the South China Sea often justify their claims in high-minded terms, history shows that these same countries pursue their claims for strategic and commercial reasons. 

On the other hand, there is international law, with which all countries must comply and which is usually regarded as a refuge of weak states. Which should prevail when they come into conflict – national interest or the rule of law?

This is a difficult question. When pursuing its perceived national interest, a country’s ability to compromise is often reduced. Negotiations are made more complicated by the influence of increasing numbers of people. This, in turn, is aided by a combination of government policy and revolutionary technologies. It is a reality that negotiators have to take into account.

Nevertheless, the ASEAN–China consultations on the proposed CoC would function better if each party clarified what its national interests really are, and if assurances were given that those interests would be protected in any future compromise. They would also be more effective if mutual trust were strengthened, so that disputes over claims do not erupt into violent conflict.

This is the most that official consultations on a CoC for the South China Sea can achieve; but they are already considerable triumphs. It must be remembered that neither ASEAN nor any ASEAN–China forum is an adjudicating body that can ‘resolve’ sovereignty or other jurisdictional conflicts. However, everybody has an interest in regional peace and stability, the maintenance of the rule of law in international relations, the freedom and safety of navigation and overflight, and the cohesion of ASEAN.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## longyi

*China, Malaysia to hold first joint military drills*







_Chinese Defence Minister Chang Wanquan holds a welcoming ceremony for Malaysia's visiting Defence Minister Hishammuddin Hussein. Photo: Xinhua_



The People's Liberation Army and the Malaysian military will hold their first-ever joint exercises next year, the Malaysian defence minister said yesterday, despite their rival claims to the South China Sea.

The announcement by Hishammuddin Hussein, who is in Beijing to meet military leaders, follows President Xi Jinping's visit to Kuala Lumpur earlier this month, in which the two countries pledged closer ties.

"Malaysia and China are expected to launch our first joint exercise in 2014 after the memorandum of understanding on defence co-operation was signed in 2005," Hishammuddin said in a statement.

The statement gave no details on the planned drills such as their location, scale, or which military branches would be involved. They would be the first-ever drills between the two countries' armed forces.

Hishammuddin, who met his counterpart, General Chang Wanquan , also said he invited Chang to visit Malaysia's South China Sea naval base of Mawilla 2 on Borneo.

The visit would be aimed at launching a "direct-contact" relationship with China's fleet in the South China Sea.

The resource-rich water body has become a potential military flashpoint in recent years as Beijing has pressed its claim to nearly all of it. Malaysia, Brunei, the Philippines, Vietnam and Taiwan also have various claims - some overlapping - to the sea, a vital thoroughfare for world trade and shipping traffic.

The 10-member Association of Southeast Asian Nations, of which Malaysia, Brunei, the Philippines and Vietnam are members, has sought to present a united front against China.

It was not immediately clear how Malaysia's warming defence ties with China would be received in other Asean capitals. While the Philippines and Vietnam have been involved in tense confrontations with China over the issue, Malaysia has sought to keep a lower profile.


http://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/1343727/china-malaysia-hold-first-joint-military-drills

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## longyi

Just as I though last year, China begins to negotiate with other claimants of SCS disputes bilaterally, as she always insisted that's what she'll do in the past. I'm also very sure Vietnam, Malaysia and Brunei will be more than satisfied through these processes.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zero_wing

Or disenfranchise only by International law and the international process that this problem that china made for itself can be solve with complete resolution and understanding among the Nations involved if china continue to insist on its medieval ways it will have other years of humiliation on its history


----------



## bolo

Zero_wing said:


> Or disenfranchise only by International law and the international process that this problem that china made for itself can be solve with complete resolution and understanding among the Nations involved if china continue to insist on its medieval ways it will have other years of humiliation on its history


He who is powerful makes the laws. Try again kiddo. 

Phillipines have been humiliated throughout her history. Used by virtually every powers around the world like a disposable pawn in a chess game.


----------



## Zero_wing

bolo said:


> He who is powerful makes the laws. Try again kiddo.
> 
> Phillipines have been humiliated throughout her history. Used by virtually every powers around the world like a disposable pawn in a chess game.



Keep your nazi mentality to your head am talking about international law here jerk off and really so what did you call the opium wars and the boxer rebellion, the Sino Japanese war, World War2 etc as far as humiliation goes you people had your @$$ handed to a million times over ha that makes you more pathetic then us because your independent nation only in paper while trying to regain our Independence by sword and words ha jokes on you people


----------



## longyi

*Aquino rebalances his China position*


MANILA - After months of diplomatic confrontation, Philippine President Benigno Aquino is seeking to re-engage China by dialing down bilateral tensions and promoting the language of dialogue and cooperation. Significantly, the move comes in the wake of US President Barack Obama's recent cancellation of a scheduled tour of Asia, including a planned trip to Manila to hammer out a new bilateral security pact.

Downplaying local criticism of China's purported ambivalence towards reaching a multilateral resolution to the ongoing territorial disputes in the South China Sea, Aquino has opted to welcome Beijing's agreement in principle to negotiate a binding code of 
conduct (CoC) through the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN).

Contradicting his own cabinet members, namely Secretary of Defense Voltaire Gazmin, Aquino has vigorously denied earlier accusations that China has placed concrete blocks at the contested Scarborough Shoal, purportedly as a prelude to establishing military fortifications in the area.

At the same time, his government is conditionally supporting negotiations between major Filipino and Chinese companies to jointly develop hydrocarbon resources in the Reed Bank, a contested feature off the coast of the Philippines' island province of Palawan.

Since the formal announcement of the US's so-called "pivot" to Asia in late-2011, the Philippines has ever more confidently stepped up its efforts to defend its maritime territorial claims against China. In turn, Beijing has escalated its paramilitary maneuvers in the Western Pacific and largely shunned the negotiation of a CoC to govern the ongoing disputes. As tensions have spiked, Sino-Philippine relations have reached their lowest point in decades.

Until now, the Philippines' South China Sea policy has been largely determined by the Department of Foreign Affairs (DFA), led by the energetic and sometimes controversial Foreign Affairs Secretary Albert Del Rosario. He has been praised domestically by increasingly nationalistic constituencies for his vigorous attempts to rally international support against China's rising assertiveness in the South China Sea.

Del Rosario has also emerged as one of the more determined regional players, alongside leaders in Tokyo and Singapore, to welcome the larger American strategic footprint in Asia promised by the "pivot" policy. That has bestowed a measure of legitimacy to Washington's regional designs to redeploy as much as 60% of its naval assets to the region, but also opened Del Rosario to criticism in China and elsewhere that he is overtly pro-American and anti-China.

Many Filipinos support the government's attempts to push back against Chinese claims in the South China Sea, with civil society organizations staging increasingly larger rallies to express their solidarity with Filipino troops defending contested maritime features while branding China as a regional "bully". After decades of living in Washington's shadow, many nationalist figures who contributed to the eviction of US military bases in Subic and Clark in the immediate post-Cold War period now see a new opportunity to unify the country against China's perceived threat to Philippine territorial integrity.

The Armed Forces of the Philippines (AFP), long ignored and underfunded by their political masters, now also has external justification to modernize deterrent capabilities and for a boost to annual budget allocations. Confronting China has paid considerable political dividends for Aquino, an often emotive "David vs Goliath" narrative that resonates deeply in the predominantly Catholic country. Critics, however, believe that the government’s current stance smacks of a moralistic battle devoid of calculated strategic thinking.

Beneath this emotionally charged surface, there is a vibrant debate - not least among top policy-makers, academics, and opinion-makers - over how best to defend the country's territorial integrity. For the critics of Aquino's current approach, the preferred policy, notwithstanding China's contribution to the militarization of the disputes, would have been much more cognizant of Beijing's strategic sensitivities and domestic political dynamics - from the rise of popular nationalism to the growing influence of hawkish elements within and associated with the People's Liberation Army's (PLA) Navy.

The alternative view - in contrast to the Del Rosario faction's emphasis on a combination of aggressive diplomacy and expanded military cooperation with strategic allies like the US and Japan - accentuates the importance of bilateral economic ties with China, the relative futility of the Philippines' legal challenge to Beijing's "9-dashline doctrine" at The Hague without a mechanism to enforce any verdict, and the counter-productive upshot of overreliance on foreign strategic allies. 

For his critics, Del Rosario's assertive nationalism is laudable to the extent that it reflects the growing anxiety among many Filipinos vis-a-vis China. His stance, they believe, channels a popular exasperation with Beijing's apparent decision to undermine its decades-long "charm offensive" characterized by generous foreign aid and investment to regional countries for the marginal strategic advantage of exerting sovereignty over a group of uninhabited islands and rocks in the South China Sea. 

The government's current approach, critics contend, has only served to embolden Chinese hawks to tighten the screws on Manila, step up military operations in the contested waters, and shun constructive diplomacy. At the same time, there is seemingly little evidence to suggest that either Washington or Tokyo will decisively come to the Philippines' rescue in the event of an armed confrontation with China over contested maritime territories. 

*Questionable commitment*

Obama's absence at the recent Asia Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) and ASEAN summits has added momentum to local calls for re-engagement with China. The fourth round of Philippines-US negotiations in early October aimed at expanding Washington's rotational military presence in the country failed to provide a major breakthrough, with top Filipino negotiators pointing to "major gaps in the critical provisions" of the new proposed framework agreement.

"There's more work needed to be done on these provisions that will define this agreement. Both parties recognize that we have to work on them with more deliberation," said Defense Undersecretary Pio Lorenzo Batino after the inconclusive round of talks. Foreign Affairs Assistant Secretary Carlos Sorreta, the spokesperson of the Philippine negotiating panel, also noted a lack of agreement over "major details of the substantive issues", with the necessity to "make sure that this agreement would be mutually beneficial."

Although the exact details of the ongoing negotiations are unknown, with critics lambasting their lack of transparency and raising concerns about the constitutionality of the process, news reports have suggested that disagreements center on the nature and duration of "pre-positioning" of US defense equipment and "ownership" of the equipment to be prepositioned and proposed facilities to be installed by the US at Clark and Subic.

How American forces will specifically aid their Filipino counterparts in maritime defense activities in the South China Sea, the "added-value" of a new agreement beyond the Visiting Forces Agreement that already facilitates annual and sustained joint exercises, as well as what type of equipment may be leased to Filipino forces on a rotational basis, have all apparently vexed the negotiations. Obama's scheduled, then canceled, October 11-12 visit to Manila was supposed to iron out these substantial differences.

Treading a line between "assertive deterrence" and "pragmatic engagement", Aquino has frequently reconfigured Philippine foreign policy during his three years in office. From 2010-2011, Aquino empowered the Del Rosario faction to re-draw the DFA's China strategy, which was largely focused on enhancing bilateral trade and investment relations during the previous Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo administration.

When Filipino and Chinese forces squared off over the Scarborough Shoal in mid-2012, Aquino sanctioned "backdoor diplomacy" - effectively bypassing the DFA - to avoid a direct armed confrontation. When it became clear that China would not disengage from the contested shoal, Aquino shifted back into deterrence mode by supporting the DFA's push to step up defense cooperation with the US and file a formal legal complaint against China at the United Nations.

The policy motivated an outpouring of nationalistic support for a more assertive diplomacy but also resulted in deeper tensions in the South China Sea, with Beijing buttressing its military maneuvers in the contested areas and rebuking the Philippines' decision to seek international legal arbitration. Diplomatic channels effectively collapsed, with Chinese leaders refusing to meet their Filipino counterparts. Bilateral ties arguably hit a new nadir in August when Beijing withdrew an earlier invitation to Aquino to attend a China-hosted trade fair.

With stalled negotiations on a new security deal with the US and Obama's recent no-show in Manila, Aquino has sought to dial down tensions and explore alternative channels of cooperation with China. Most significantly, perhaps, his government is exploring the idea of joint development of certain energy-rich maritime areas it contests with China. Beijing has in recent weeks made similar joint development overtures towards Vietnam and Brunei.

The Philippine-owned Forum Energy and Chinese state-owned oil company China National Offshore Oil Corporation are now negotiating a joint-exploration venture in the hydrocarbon-rich Reed Bank, site to an estimated 16.6 trillion cubic feet of natural gas and 416 million barrels of oil. The talks have provided Manila with an opportunity to re-open communication channels with Beijing and temporarily shelve sovereignty issues in order to purse mutual economic interests - injecting a constructive atmosphere into bilateral relations which will be crucial to any future territorial agreement.

With Washington driving a hard bargain on a new security pact, Aquino seems increasingly keen to engage rather than confront Beijing. China's growing regional prominence and America's perceived strategic absence has added urgency to a tactical reconsideration in Manila, especially as ASEAN focuses its attention on fostering economic ties and integration (rather than territorial disputes) with China. But as Aquino pursues a more conciliatory tack, it's not clear yet his overtures will be reciprocated by a peeved Beijing.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/SEA-01-051113.html


As the old saying goes: There'll be no peace if you can't live peacefully with your immediate neighbors. Aquino is learning.


----------



## bolo

Zero_wing said:


> Keep your nazi mentality to your head am talking about international law here jerk off and really so what did you call the opium wars and the boxer rebellion, the Sino Japanese war, World War2 etc as far as humiliation goes you people had your @$$ handed to a million times over ha that makes you more pathetic then us because your independent nation only in paper while trying to regain our Independence by sword and words ha jokes on you people



LOL. You love to resort to labeling people and name calling as that is the basis of most of your arguments. I'll say it one more time and don't bother replying, I'm through schooling you.

Little fish do not mess with big fish. 

You can name all those Zero-Wing-modified-twisted events where China was humiliated in the past, but the bottom line is our country is stronger than before and still intact. At least most of our population do not have surnames like Cortez, Santiago, Ramirez, Cordeiro, etc like you people. Wonder how you guys have such foreign Spanish surnames?  


longyi said:


> *Aquino rebalances his China position*
> 
> 
> MANILA - After months of diplomatic confrontation, Philippine President Benigno Aquino is seeking to re-engage China by dialing down bilateral tensions and promoting the language of dialogue and cooperation. Significantly, the move comes in the wake of US President Barack Obama's recent cancellation of a scheduled tour of Asia, including a planned trip to Manila to hammer out a new bilateral security pact.
> 
> Downplaying local criticism of China's purported ambivalence towards reaching a multilateral resolution to the ongoing territorial disputes in the South China Sea, Aquino has opted to welcome Beijing's agreement in principle to negotiate a binding code of
> conduct (CoC) through the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN).
> 
> Contradicting his own cabinet members, namely Secretary of Defense Voltaire Gazmin, Aquino has vigorously denied earlier accusations that China has placed concrete blocks at the contested Scarborough Shoal, purportedly as a prelude to establishing military fortifications in the area.
> 
> At the same time, his government is conditionally supporting negotiations between major Filipino and Chinese companies to jointly develop hydrocarbon resources in the Reed Bank, a contested feature off the coast of the Philippines' island province of Palawan.
> 
> Since the formal announcement of the US's so-called "pivot" to Asia in late-2011, the Philippines has ever more confidently stepped up its efforts to defend its maritime territorial claims against China. In turn, Beijing has escalated its paramilitary maneuvers in the Western Pacific and largely shunned the negotiation of a CoC to govern the ongoing disputes. As tensions have spiked, Sino-Philippine relations have reached their lowest point in decades.
> 
> Until now, the Philippines' South China Sea policy has been largely determined by the Department of Foreign Affairs (DFA), led by the energetic and sometimes controversial Foreign Affairs Secretary Albert Del Rosario. He has been praised domestically by increasingly nationalistic constituencies for his vigorous attempts to rally international support against China's rising assertiveness in the South China Sea.
> 
> Del Rosario has also emerged as one of the more determined regional players, alongside leaders in Tokyo and Singapore, to welcome the larger American strategic footprint in Asia promised by the "pivot" policy. That has bestowed a measure of legitimacy to Washington's regional designs to redeploy as much as 60% of its naval assets to the region, but also opened Del Rosario to criticism in China and elsewhere that he is overtly pro-American and anti-China.
> 
> Many Filipinos support the government's attempts to push back against Chinese claims in the South China Sea, with civil society organizations staging increasingly larger rallies to express their solidarity with Filipino troops defending contested maritime features while branding China as a regional "bully". After decades of living in Washington's shadow, many nationalist figures who contributed to the eviction of US military bases in Subic and Clark in the immediate post-Cold War period now see a new opportunity to unify the country against China's perceived threat to Philippine territorial integrity.
> 
> The Armed Forces of the Philippines (AFP), long ignored and underfunded by their political masters, now also has external justification to modernize deterrent capabilities and for a boost to annual budget allocations. Confronting China has paid considerable political dividends for Aquino, an often emotive "David vs Goliath" narrative that resonates deeply in the predominantly Catholic country. Critics, however, believe that the government’s current stance smacks of a moralistic battle devoid of calculated strategic thinking.
> 
> Beneath this emotionally charged surface, there is a vibrant debate - not least among top policy-makers, academics, and opinion-makers - over how best to defend the country's territorial integrity. For the critics of Aquino's current approach, the preferred policy, notwithstanding China's contribution to the militarization of the disputes, would have been much more cognizant of Beijing's strategic sensitivities and domestic political dynamics - from the rise of popular nationalism to the growing influence of hawkish elements within and associated with the People's Liberation Army's (PLA) Navy.
> 
> The alternative view - in contrast to the Del Rosario faction's emphasis on a combination of aggressive diplomacy and expanded military cooperation with strategic allies like the US and Japan - accentuates the importance of bilateral economic ties with China, the relative futility of the Philippines' legal challenge to Beijing's "9-dashline doctrine" at The Hague without a mechanism to enforce any verdict, and the counter-productive upshot of overreliance on foreign strategic allies.
> 
> For his critics, Del Rosario's assertive nationalism is laudable to the extent that it reflects the growing anxiety among many Filipinos vis-a-vis China. His stance, they believe, channels a popular exasperation with Beijing's apparent decision to undermine its decades-long "charm offensive" characterized by generous foreign aid and investment to regional countries for the marginal strategic advantage of exerting sovereignty over a group of uninhabited islands and rocks in the South China Sea.
> 
> The government's current approach, critics contend, has only served to embolden Chinese hawks to tighten the screws on Manila, step up military operations in the contested waters, and shun constructive diplomacy. At the same time, there is seemingly little evidence to suggest that either Washington or Tokyo will decisively come to the Philippines' rescue in the event of an armed confrontation with China over contested maritime territories.
> 
> *Questionable commitment*
> 
> Obama's absence at the recent Asia Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) and ASEAN summits has added momentum to local calls for re-engagement with China. The fourth round of Philippines-US negotiations in early October aimed at expanding Washington's rotational military presence in the country failed to provide a major breakthrough, with top Filipino negotiators pointing to "major gaps in the critical provisions" of the new proposed framework agreement.
> 
> "There's more work needed to be done on these provisions that will define this agreement. Both parties recognize that we have to work on them with more deliberation," said Defense Undersecretary Pio Lorenzo Batino after the inconclusive round of talks. Foreign Affairs Assistant Secretary Carlos Sorreta, the spokesperson of the Philippine negotiating panel, also noted a lack of agreement over "major details of the substantive issues", with the necessity to "make sure that this agreement would be mutually beneficial."
> 
> Although the exact details of the ongoing negotiations are unknown, with critics lambasting their lack of transparency and raising concerns about the constitutionality of the process, news reports have suggested that disagreements center on the nature and duration of "pre-positioning" of US defense equipment and "ownership" of the equipment to be prepositioned and proposed facilities to be installed by the US at Clark and Subic.
> 
> How American forces will specifically aid their Filipino counterparts in maritime defense activities in the South China Sea, the "added-value" of a new agreement beyond the Visiting Forces Agreement that already facilitates annual and sustained joint exercises, as well as what type of equipment may be leased to Filipino forces on a rotational basis, have all apparently vexed the negotiations. Obama's scheduled, then canceled, October 11-12 visit to Manila was supposed to iron out these substantial differences.
> 
> Treading a line between "assertive deterrence" and "pragmatic engagement", Aquino has frequently reconfigured Philippine foreign policy during his three years in office. From 2010-2011, Aquino empowered the Del Rosario faction to re-draw the DFA's China strategy, which was largely focused on enhancing bilateral trade and investment relations during the previous Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo administration.
> 
> When Filipino and Chinese forces squared off over the Scarborough Shoal in mid-2012, Aquino sanctioned "backdoor diplomacy" - effectively bypassing the DFA - to avoid a direct armed confrontation. When it became clear that China would not disengage from the contested shoal, Aquino shifted back into deterrence mode by supporting the DFA's push to step up defense cooperation with the US and file a formal legal complaint against China at the United Nations.
> 
> The policy motivated an outpouring of nationalistic support for a more assertive diplomacy but also resulted in deeper tensions in the South China Sea, with Beijing buttressing its military maneuvers in the contested areas and rebuking the Philippines' decision to seek international legal arbitration. Diplomatic channels effectively collapsed, with Chinese leaders refusing to meet their Filipino counterparts. Bilateral ties arguably hit a new nadir in August when Beijing withdrew an earlier invitation to Aquino to attend a China-hosted trade fair.
> 
> With stalled negotiations on a new security deal with the US and Obama's recent no-show in Manila, Aquino has sought to dial down tensions and explore alternative channels of cooperation with China. Most significantly, perhaps, his government is exploring the idea of joint development of certain energy-rich maritime areas it contests with China. Beijing has in recent weeks made similar joint development overtures towards Vietnam and Brunei.
> 
> The Philippine-owned Forum Energy and Chinese state-owned oil company China National Offshore Oil Corporation are now negotiating a joint-exploration venture in the hydrocarbon-rich Reed Bank, site to an estimated 16.6 trillion cubic feet of natural gas and 416 million barrels of oil. The talks have provided Manila with an opportunity to re-open communication channels with Beijing and temporarily shelve sovereignty issues in order to purse mutual economic interests - injecting a constructive atmosphere into bilateral relations which will be crucial to any future territorial agreement.
> 
> With Washington driving a hard bargain on a new security pact, Aquino seems increasingly keen to engage rather than confront Beijing. China's growing regional prominence and America's perceived strategic absence has added urgency to a tactical reconsideration in Manila, especially as ASEAN focuses its attention on fostering economic ties and integration (rather than territorial disputes) with China. But as Aquino pursues a more conciliatory tack, it's not clear yet his overtures will be reciprocated by a peeved Beijing.
> 
> http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/SEA-01-051113.html
> 
> 
> As the old saying goes: There'll be no peace if you can't live peacefully with your immediate neighbors. Aquino is learning.



A test for CCP.. If they willingly and fully cooperate they are weak and already infiltrated. Time for them to go.


----------



## Zero_wing

bolo said:


> LOL. You love to resort to labeling people and name calling as that is the basis of most of your arguments. I'll say it one more time and don't bother replying, I'm through schooling you.
> 
> Little fish do not mess with big fish.
> 
> You can name all those Zero-Wing-modified-twisted events where China was humiliated in the past, but the bottom line is our country is stronger than before and still intact. At least most of our population do not have surnames like Cortez, Santiago, Ramirez, Cordeiro, etc like you people. Wonder how you guys have such foreign Spanish surnames?
> 
> A test for CCP.. If they willingly and fully cooperate they are weak and already infiltrated. Time for them to go.



Oh please can you hear yourself your mistaken a situational truth from a Universal truth troll as if you mainlanders are not using that tactic ha screw you as if your commie education has any real weight? keep it your so called education and put it in your bin like your cheap poorly copied trash its nothing but bin material


----------



## cirr

CMS（CCG）52：


----------



## Tanja

*Peace in the East Sea*

*“In the next 5 following years, the East Sea will remain lots of potential risks and being one of the most complicating disputations in the world*
*There, also exists the possible armed conflict in this sea”, said ambassador Đặng Đinh Quy – the president of diplomacy institute in the fifth international scientific conference about the East sea*
*Negative and positive sites of the conflicts in East Sea*
*The methods for bring back the peace in East Sea*
*FNOTW: Analysis: Peace in the East Sea*

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Tanja

*Peace in the East Sea*





*“In the next 5 following years, the East Sea will remain lots of potential risks and being one of the most complicating disputations in the world*

*There, also exists the possible armed conflict in this sea”, said ambassador Đặng Đinh Quy – the president of diplomacy institute in the fifth international scientific conference about the East sea*

*Negative and positive sites of the conflicts in East Sea*

*The methods for bring back the peace in East Sea*


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

*Navy says Natuna situation still safe *
The Jakarta Post, Batam | Archipelago | Sat, November 16 2013, 6:45 AM
_Archipelago News




_
The Indonesian Navy said that the situation in the South China Sea, especially in Natuna regency, Riau Islands, is still secure especially considering that Indonesia is not a claimant in the sea dispute.

The Tanjung Pinang Naval Main Base (Lantamal) commander, Cmdr. Agus Heryana said recently that the factual condition in the South China Sea was always safe although there were efforts blowing it out of proportion.

“It is always depicted as being explosive although the navies deployed in the area are not operating aggresively,” he said.

“The tensions are rising for claimant states in disputes with China, such as Brunei Darussalam, the Philippines and Vietnam. There is minimal tension between Indonesia and China.”

Agus added, however, that the Navy headquarters had a policy to deploy its warships in the waters surrounding Natuna to safeguard the area.

“The warships are there to safeguard Indonesian territory, that’s all. We deployed three warships there but not as a response to the situation or the that the issue of Natuna has become heated.”

When asked about China’s Nine-dotted-line claim, which includes Natuna, Agus said it was not a problem for Indonesia.

*“It is OK for China to include it in its claim but as long as there is no endorsement by the United Nations, they cannot do anything,” he said.*

*“They can claim it but it is not as straight forward as that.”*

*The Navy will host the 2014 Komodo Multilateral Exercise involving 28 warships and 4,500 sailors from 18 countries, including China. The exercise will be held in Anambas, Batam and Natuna waters. *


----------



## cirr

CMS 2169 formally inducted on 15.11.2013：






You guys will see a lot of her in the SCS。


----------



## Zero_wing

Good you see a lot of us too so lets see each other


----------



## sree45

In a significant move, India and Vietnam on Wednesday inked an agreement for developing and expanding oil exploration projects in disputed South China Sea including allocation of new oil blocks, a pact that may irk China further.

The agreement, along with seven more, were inked after Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and Nguyen Phu Trong, General Secretary of the Vietnamese Communist Party, held extensive talks on key bilateral and regional issues and ways to enhance bilateral strategic ties.

"Both India and Vietnam belong to a region that holds enormous potential but also many challenges. We have a strong convergence of interests in working together and with others in the region, for a stable, peaceful and prosperous Asia. We have, therefore, sought to build a comprehensive relationship with a broad-based agenda of bilateral and regional cooperation," Singh said at a joint media event with Nguyen.

The Prime Minister also appreciated the offer of another offshore block to ONGC Videsh Limited for continued oil and gas exploration in South China Sea which is witnessing territorial disputes involving both land (island) and maritime among seven sovereign states including China, Philippines and Vietnam within the region.

The MoU between Vietnam Oil and Gas group and ONGC Videsh Limited was inked for the association in the field of exploration, development and production of petroleum resources between the two countries for new investments by OVL in oil and Gas blocks in Vietnam.

Under the MoU, the PetroVietnam, Vietnam state company, was also invited to participate in open blocks in India and in third countries.

OVL is already in joint venture with PetroVietnam in three oil blocks close to the disputed Spratly Islands –known as Nansha Islands in China.

Today's pact may not go down well with China which has time and again objected to India's oil exploration projects in the region. China's Foreign Affairs Ministry has said India should respect its sovereignty and halt its oil and gas exploration.

"China opposes unilateral exploration and development of oil and gas in contested waters of the South China Sea. We hope relevant countries can respect China's claim, position and rights and interests, and respect and support efforts made by countries in the region to solve disputes through bilateral negotiations," it said.

Despite China's objections to Indian oil exploration in South China Sea, Vietnam has been asserting that India has the right to pursue oil exploration there as they were within Vietnamese "exclusive economic zone".

Nguyen also appreciated India's position for peaceful resolution of the issue in the East Sea of Vietnam as per the international law and freedom of navigation.

On the defence and security cooperation, Singh said the two countries have decided to strengthen it further. "India will continue to assist Vietnam in modernization and training of its defence and security forces, including through a USD 100 million line of credit for defence purchases," he said.

India-Vietnam ink pact to expand oil exploration in South China Sea - India - DNA

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## IndoCarib

Vietnam’s leader Nguyen Phu Trong visit to India key to rebalancing in SE Asia - The Economic Times

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## NiceGuy

Good move from Indian bro, we will protect ur oil company at all cost . If China dare to make trouble wt u , just simply sink its oil tanker in SCS(east sea) and enjoy to watch China's economy collapse

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## GR!FF!N

Good news..by the way,which blocks we're getting??one thing is confusing,the blocks India was exploring was nowhere near Spartly as this news claimed..its close to Vietnam's territorial water.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

GR!FF!N said:


> Good news..by the way,which blocks we're getting??one thing is confusing,the blocks India was exploring was nowhere near Spartly as this news claimed..its close to Vietnam's territorial water.



here are some details of the deals:
India was awarded with block 6.1, 127 and 128, but you returned block 127 some years ago after no oil was found and will return 128 next year.















Vietnam offers India seven oil blocks in South China Sea - The Hindu

And now the deal sees Vietnam has offered India seven oil blocks in South China Sea, including three on an exclusive basis, and joint prospecting in some Central Asian countries. All blocks lie within Vietnamese EEZ. No info if India has accepted the offer. I think if you say okay, then the location of the blocks will be made public.

India has agreed to train 500 Vietnamese submariners and will transfer four naval boats under a $100-million credit line.

A MoU formalised Vietnam’s decision to award Tata Power a $1.8-billion thermal power project.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Minjitta

NiceGuy said:


> Good move from Indian bro, we will protect ur oil company at all cost . If China dare to make trouble wt u , just simply sink its oil tanker in SCS(east sea) and enjoy to watch China's economy collapse


calm down NiceDude China are soften up now, China know her hard power doesn't work in Asia now China try to be nice to all Asia with soft power, but it's too late China already show her hidden cards with a poor poker face.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## GR!FF!N

@Viet..I know that buddy that India got 127 and 128 and returned one block as there is no significant oil or gas.but those were nowhere near Spartly...


----------



## Rainmaker

Two sides sign eight pacts, including agreement on energy cooperation
Vietnam has offered India seven oil blocks in South China Sea, including three on an exclusive basis, and joint prospecting in some Central Asian countries with which both Hanoi and New Delhi have good political ties.

Following talks between Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and visiting Vietnam Communist Party general secretary Nguyen Phu Trong here on Wednesday, the two sides signed eight pacts of which the ones on energy cooperation and protection of information in defence will intensify the already close ties in these two sectors.

The MoU on oil exploration is for three years and its contents have not been made available. Hence it could not be ascertained whether the allocation will fall foul of China which lays claim to a portion of South China Sea that has been under Vietnam’s jurisdiction.

*China had not objected to Vietnam allotting the lucrative Block 6.1 to India during the Cold War years in Nam Con Son Basin of South China Sea. But it objected to India taking up exploration in blocks 127 and 128 in Phu Kanh Basin. Chinese objections have included demarches, pressure on companies not to sell equipment to India and the alleged buzzing of an Indian warship that had transited through the disputed portion of South China Sea.*

*India returned block 127 some years ago after no oil was found and will return 128 next year after a financially disastrous experience with putting a rig in place. *

*Defence cooperation*

For the defence pact, preparatory work was done during meetings between high ranking officials such as Vietnam’s Chief of General Staff Do Ba Ty and Defence Secretary R.K. Mathur during which they agreed to have greater cooperation in capacity building, joint projects and training.

India has already agreed to train 500 Vietnamese submariners and will transfer four naval boats under a $100-million credit line.

As Dr. Singh noted, “we reaffirmed the importance of defence and security cooperation and agreed to strengthen it further. India will continue to assist Vietnam in modernisation and training of its defence and security forces.”

In a joint statement, both leaders termed defence cooperation a “significant pillar” of strategic partnership and noted the increased pace of defence dialogue, training and exercises, ship visits, capacity building and exchanges between think tanks.

On the economic front, an MoU formalised Vietnam’s decision to award Tata Power a $1.8-billion thermal power project after a failed bid by the same company to set up a $5-billion steel plant. An air services agreement, which was also among the eight to be signed, could lead to direct flights giving a boost to trade and tourism.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rainmaker

Let the troll fest begin


----------



## Viet

*Some photos on the welcome ceremony for Party leader Trong at the Indian Presidential Palace:*
*















































*

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Snomannen

Indian people are up to no good, trust me you can't ally with them they will betray you someday.
But you can totally trust good Chinese people, they are so peaceful and nice. They are going to be your best friend forever... 
I suddenly feel sick.


----------



## Viet

GR!FF!N said:


> @Viet..I know that buddy that India got 127 and 128 and returned one block as there is no significant oil or gas.but those were nowhere near Spartly...


no, all blocks lie well within our EEZ, which are not disputed (Chinese say otherwise, but we don´t care). It is very interesting to see the reactions of China right now on the deals between India and Vietnam: nothing. We can assume Vietnam leadership informed China beforehand about the deals with India.

We remember, China reacted angrily two years ago, threatened with militarily actions against Vietnam and even harassed Indian Navy in the South China Sea. That is a lesson we all can learn.

The possible oil/gas resources in Spratly waters are still to be discovered and exploited. That area is indeed a sensitive topic.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## NiceGuy

KirovAirship said:


> Indian people are up to no good, trust me you can't ally with them they will betray you someday.
> But you can totally trust good Chinese people, they are so peaceful and nice. They are going to be your best friend forever...
> I suddenly feel sick.


Sick with ur own cheap lie ??

India opposed VN war ,collaborate with Vn against China , thats good enough already

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Wholegrain

NiceGuy said:


> Good move from Indian bro, we will protect ur oil company at all cost . If China dare to make trouble wt u , just simply sink its oil tanker in SCS(east sea) and enjoy to watch China's economy collapse



Keep on masturbating to your wet dreams, this is what happens in reality.

Johnson South Reef Skirmish - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Zero_wing

Wholegrain said:


> Keep on masturbating to your wet dreams, this is what happens in reality.
> 
> Johnson South Reef Skirmish - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Wow real mature answer some can be said about Taiwan province


----------



## Viet

Wholegrain said:


> Keep on masturbating to your wet dreams, this is what happens in reality.
> 
> Johnson South Reef Skirmish - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


nice, just keep showing your ugly face. Are you proud of killing our people?


----------



## kankan326

Be rational Indians. Don't be used by Vietnamese. Once your investments in SCS are completely destroyed by war. Don't blame China had not warned you.


----------



## EastSea

kankan326 said:


> Be rational Indians. Don't be used by Vietnamese. Once your investments in SCS are completely destroyed by war. Don't blame China had not warned you.



sea pirates have their big mouth and aggressive mentality, we know that.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## faithfulguy

EastSea said:


> sea pirates have their big mouth and aggressive mentality, we know that.



All the countries bordering SCS should get together, form a company, and jointly develop the area together.


----------



## chhota bheem

faithfulguy said:


> All the countries bordering SCS should get together, form a company, and jointly develop the area together.



So you feel the dispute is not about the area one wants to have but for oil.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NiceGuy

faithfulguy said:


> All the countries bordering SCS should get together, form a company, and jointly develop the area together.


No, we will take all from China-TW and share it wt Phillipine

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Wholegrain

NiceGuy said:


> No, we will take all from China-TW and share it wt Phillipine



You mean like how you shared Vietnamese women with the Philippines?



> The invasion took place when all the Philippine soldiers guarding the island of Pugad left to attend to the birthday party of their commanding officer who is based on nearby Parola Island. The storm that day is also believed to have persuaded all the soldiers to regroup temporarily on Parola island. *A report also came out saying that South Vietnamese officials managed to send Vietnamese prostitutes to the birthday party to lure the Filipino soldiers guarding Pugad Island. It was said to be a "present" to the Philippine commander for his birthday and as a move of South Vietnamese forces to befriend all Filipino soldiers guarding the Spratlys.* Philippine soldiers did not expect that South Vietnam would resort to foul play since both Philippines and South Vietnam, together with the United States, were allies in the Vietnam War. This tactic is believed to be the reason why South Vietnamese forces knew that the Filipino soldiers left the island, an action that is usually kept confidential.
> 
> After the party and after the weather cleared out, the returning soldiers were surprised that a company of South Vietnamese soldiers were already in the island. The South Vietnamese flag replaced the Philippine flag flying in the pole created by Philippine soldiers themselves. The soldiers returned to Parola immediately for fear that Parola would be the next target. After higher-ups of the Philippines were informed about the situation, they instructed the troops based in Parola and Pagasa to stay on red alert status. For the following mornings, the only thing the Filipino soldiers could do in Parola was to "curse" while South Vietnamese sang their national anthem. Malacañang officials, who did not wanted to compromise the alliance while the Vietnam War was still being fought, decided to remain silent.



East Sea Campaign - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



> During the 1970s the Spratly islands was already a source of dispute for many countries in the region with Malaysia, the People's Republic of China (Communist China), the Republic of China (Taiwan), the Philippines and South Vietnam all claimed sovereignty over all or parts of the islands. In early 1975 the underlying tension between the claimants came to the surface when South Vietnam invaded Southwest Cay, then occupied by the military forces of its wartime ally, the Philippines. *In order to lure the Philippines soldiers off Southwest Cay, it was reported that South Vietnamese authorities sent prostitutes to the birthday party of the Philippine military commander on another island.[6][7]*
> 
> While the Philippine soldiers left their post to attend the birthday party of their commanding officer, South Vietnamese soldiers moved in to occupy Southwest Cay. After the Philippines military realized they had lost their territory, they planned to retake the island from the South Vietnamese through military force. However, by the time the Philippines military were able to put their plan into action, the South Vietnamese had already built a strong defense on Southwest Cay, thus deterring any potential counter-attack. Later Southwest Cay would be the first major target for the North Vietnamese Navy.[8]



Spratly Islands dispute - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



> The sixth largest Spratly island. Only 1.75 miles (2.82 km) from Northeast Cay and can be seen before the horizon. Previously a breeding place for birds and covered with trees and guano. Export of guano was once carried out "on a considerable scale." Fringing reef partly above water at high tide. Vietnam erected its first lighthouse in the Spratlys here in October 1993 and built an airstrip. Has a three-story building, garrisoned by soldiers. Philippine military controlled the island before early 1970s. South Vietnamese forces (Republic of Vietnam) invaded the island in 1975, when Filipino soldiers guarding the island attended the birthday party of their commanding officer based in the nearby Northeast Cay. *A confirmed report came out that Vietnamese prostitutes were sent by Vietnamese officials to the birthday party, supposedly a sign of good brotherhood between the forces, but was actually used to lure the Filipino soldiers guarding the island.* Filipino forces apparently planned on attacking the island, thus it would have led to a war, but Vietnamese forces were able to erect a huge garrison in the island within few weeks, forcing Filipino officials to abort the plan. Since then, more soldiers were assigned to Parola Island (North East Cay), to avoid it from happening again. This was confirmed by interviews with soldiers involved in an episode of the defunct ABS-CBN's Magandang Gabi Bayan (Good Evening Nation) program. See Policies, activities and history of the Philippines in Spratly Islands#Southwest Cay invasion for more details. Part of North Danger Reef.


----------



## Zero_wing

faithfulguy said:


> All the countries bordering SCS should get together, form a company, and jointly develop the area together.



Ir maybe you people should just stay in your middle kingdom and leave and stop making trouble for the region with your illogical claims


----------



## NiceGuy

Wholegrain said:


> You mean like how you shared Vietnamese women with the Philippines?
> 
> 
> 
> East Sea Campaign - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> Spratly Islands dispute - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Whatever, Phillipine is our friend now, so, China-TW troops in Spratly will be our target


----------



## kankan326

NiceGuy said:


> Whatever, Phillipine is our friend now, so, China-TW troops in Spratly will be our target


Should a tiger feel scared of being target of a rabbit? It's more like a small piece of coming meat. What should tiger do with the easy prey? Open mouth and wait.


----------



## cirr

CCG 3401 being given a new coat of paint。The ship is nearly ready to start her patrols in the SCS：


----------



## EastSea

this ships could run around like who has his paranoia illness.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zero_wing

wow new rip off ship

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Tanja

*The tension between Japan and China have not decreased yet China claim to expanse a new air defense air zone officially on 10h 23.11.2013.

This action has not only received strong opposition from Japan but also its ally – The U.S*


FNOTW: New expanse of air defense identification zone- China ’s Mistake ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## longyi

China carrier steams towards disputed South China Sea for drills| Reuters

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zero_wing

A threat to world peace


----------



## cirr

CMS 1010 launched today（30.11.2013）：


----------



## cirr

Another CMS vessel near formal induction：






The photo shows the ship entering the ECS after a 4-day voyage in the Yangtse River。


----------



## cirr

A new “toy“ （18th of the same class）to be launched shortly：






Good for collision in the high seas。


----------



## cirr

CCG 3172 and CCG 1127：











Another（the 19th） Type 056 corvette to be floated out soon：

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

I think S-300 system just use for defense our Capital and HCM city or Cam Ranh bay.
The "right" meal for PRC's ships are Bastion-P, Redut-M, and Uran ...

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## EastSea

Soryu said:


> I think S-300 system just use for defense our Capital and HCM city or Cam Ranh bay.
> The "right" meal for PRC's ships are Bastion-P, Redut-M, and Uran ...



Tên lửa Shaddock (SS-N-3):





Các loại tên lửa chủ lực của Việt Nam - Blog Hồ Xương Rồng

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zero_wing

Man the chinese imperial are really pushing the world to the brink of war


----------



## Durrrrrrr

Zero_wing said:


> Man the chinese imperial are really pushing the world to the brink of war



Well, the US imperial has been at war since 2001, ignoring the UN. But that is ok, cause its the US.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## WuMaoCleverbot

*Chinese Territorial Strife Hits Archaeology*
*China Has Begun Asserting Ownership of Thousands of Shipwrecks in the South China Sea*

*Underwater archaeologist Franck Goddio's team was exploring the wreckage of a 13th-century Chinese junk off the coast of the Philippines when it made an unwelcome discovery about China's maritime muscle in the 21st century.

As a twin-prop plane swooped overhead, a Chinese marine-surveillance vessel approached the team's Philippines-registered ship and began broadcasting instructions in English over a loudspeaker.

"They said this area belonged to the People's Republic of China, and they told us to scram," recalls one of the people on board last year. "It was pretty scary." Chinese officials confirm the incident took place but say the archaeologists' mission was illegal.

With territorial disputes escalating in the waters off China, the Chinese government has begun asserting ownership of thousands of shipwrecks within a vast U-shaped area that covers almost all of the South China Sea, which it says has been part of its territorial waters for centuries.

China has ordered its coast guard to prevent what it considers illegal archaeology in the waters it claims, and it is pouring money into a state-run marine-archaeology program. Chinese archaeologists are preparing their first comprehensive survey of undersea sites, including in disputed areas.

Chinese officials say their efforts will curb the theft and treasure hunting they say has destroyed numerous sites and flooded the global market with looted Chinese antiquities.

There is a political dimension to China's plans. Chinese archaeologists openly aspire to bolster their country's historical claims to the contested South China Sea, which overlap with those of Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei, Taiwan and the Philippines.

"We want to find more evidence that can prove Chinese people went there and lived there, historical evidence that can help prove China is the sovereign owner of the South China Sea," says Liu Shuguang, head of the Chinese government's Center of Underwater Cultural Heritage, set up in 2009 to oversee underwater archaeology in the country.

Tensions have been running high in the region over China's intensifying campaign to assert territorial claims, not only in the South China Sea, but in the East China Sea, which is contested by Japan. On Nov. 23, China proclaimed a new air-defense identification zone over islands claimed by both China and Japan but controlled by Tokyo.

The South China Sea, one of the world's busiest trading routes, is littered with wrecks from the last two millennia, including Chinese junks, Indian and Arab dhows, Dutch and British trading schooners and World War II warships. Chinese archaeologists say they have gathered coordinates for 70 shipwrecks in those waters but estimate there are at least 2,000, and possibly many more.

Mr. Goddio, a Frenchman who is one of the world's leading marine archaeologists, had worked in the area since the 1980s, excavating 15th-century Chinese junks, 16th-century Spanish galleons and 18th-century British merchant ships. In addition to the trip last year, his team had visited the cluster of reefs and rocks off the Philippines, called the Scarborough Shoal, in 2011. Both expeditions were part of a joint research project with the National Museum of the Philippines, which collaborates with foreign archaeologists because of a shortage of state funding.

Different countries refer to the disputed islands by different names.

People involved in the project say it has no political or commercial agenda. During last year's trip, they say, they were examining pieces of celadon, a form of green-glazed ceramic, from a wreck that long ago broke apart on the sharp coral.

Chinese officials see ulterior motives.

"The Philippines sent some French archaeologists to do what? To drag away this shipwreck," says Mr. Liu of China's Center of Underwater Cultural Heritage. "Because this was material evidence that Chinese people first found the Scarborough Shoal, they wanted to destroy evidence that was beneficial to China." The archaeologists deny that.

Chinese archaeologists haven't started excavating sites at the Scarborough Shoal, but they have begun work on Chinese wrecks around the Paracel Islands, which lie about 200 miles from the coasts of China and Vietnam and are claimed by both countries. China has controlled the islands since 1974, when it defeated Vietnam in a brief naval battle

"Marine archaeology is an exercise that demonstrates national sovereignty," Li Xiaojie, the vice minister of culture, was quoted as saying by state media in September 2012 as he examined porcelain retrieved from a wreck off the Paracels.

Chinese archaeologists say the survey encompassing other disputed areas will begin this year or next.

They also say they hope to support the government's efforts to re-establish China as a world maritime power, by focusing their research on the "Maritime Silk Road," which connected China by sea with India and Africa beginning in about the second century B.C.

China's five-year plan for 2011 to 2015 calls for the government to promote a seafaring heritage embodied by Zheng He, a eunuch admiral who sailed an armada of treasure ships as far as Africa about 600 years ago. The admiral is celebrated in China as the face of an era when it projected power far beyond its shores.

Xi Jinping, China's new president, has repeatedly emphasized the importance of maritime power—at times invoking Zheng He—as part of a vision to reclaim China's world prominence.

Zhang Wei, one of China's first underwater archaeologists, says the nation is "extremely focused on being a great and strong maritime power," which he calls the "grand backdrop" to China's marine-archaeology program. The program was launched, he says, under the auspices of President Xi's father, who served as vice premier under Deng Xiaoping in the 1980s

Mr. Zhang says interest was kindled by commercial treasure hunters who operated in the South China Sea. Among the most famous was Mike Hatcher, a Briton whose haul of Chinese porcelain from the wreck of the Geldermalsen, an 18th-century Dutch East India Co. ship that sank in the South China Sea, raised more than $20 million at auction in Amsterdam in 1986.

Chinese leaders dispatched two officials to that auction to try to buy some of the items with cash, according to Mr. Zhang. "They only took about $30,000, and they couldn't buy a single thing," he says.

China's National Museum established its Underwater Archaeology Center the following year and appointed Mr. Zhang to head it—mainly, he says, because he was one of the few Chinese archaeologists who could swim.

The first big find in Chinese waters—a roughly 800-year-old merchant ship named the Nanhai One—was made in 1987 while a British salvage company was searching for a Dutch East India Co. wreck. The British team was forced to withdraw after the Nanhai One was identified as a Chinese ship.

Since then, there has been almost no foreign participation in marine archaeology in China, according to Chinese and foreign archaeologists. And only Chinese wrecks have been excavated in Chinese waters.

Chinese authorities, meanwhile, have trained more than 100 marine archaeologists, built at least three underwater-archaeology museums and invested millions of dollars in research. On Thursday, they announced a new project to remove up to 80,000 artifacts from the Nanhai One, which was lifted off the seabed in 2007 and placed in a water tank in a museum.

Next year, China plans to launch a 184-foot ship designed for marine archaeology, the first of its kind in the country, according to state-media reports.

China also is funding joint projects in other countries' waters, focusing mostly on locating wrecks linked to Zheng He. Last year, Chinese archaeologists using sonar identified five wrecks they believe were part of his fleet in the Gulf of Oman and the Strait of Hormuz, according to Chinese state media.

One reason Chinese authorities are so interested in tracing Zheng He's travels is that he is said to have visited several rocks and islands in the South China Sea.

Foreign experts say they welcome China's new willingness to invest in underwater archaeology and relish the prospect of learning more about sites in China's waters.

But some say they are concerned that a political agenda might be driving China's choice of sites, its exclusion of foreign archaeologists and its relative lack of openness about its research.

"There's this strong sense of nationalism that flows through the Chinese program," says Jeffrey L. Adams, an anthropologist at the University of Minnesota who has written about Chinese archaeology.

Foreign archaeologists mostly agree that Chinese-built ships and cargo account for many of the sites in the South China Sea because of the international trade in Chinese porcelain and silk.

But many of the wrecks lie far from the Chinese mainland, around the reefs and rocks off the coast of Malaysia, Brunei and the Philippines, because ships used to hug those shores to help with navigation and avoid bad weather.

Even if a wreck isn't in a disputed area, tracing its national "ownership" is often complicated. A ship, its owner, its cargo and its crew all may have originated in different countries.

Internationally, the trend in recent years has been toward acknowledging "common heritage," pursuing joint excavation and sharing results among academics from different nations. A 2001 Unesco convention on underwater cultural heritage encouraged states to cooperate when they had a shared interest in a site, but offered no guidance on jurisdiction and no mechanism for dealing with sites in disputed areas.

"If there's a disputed site, what we recommend is just get together and don't get into a fight over it," says Ulrike Guerin, who oversees protection of underwater cultural heritage at Unesco, the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization. "If you look around the world now, the majority of projects are multinational ones."

None of the countries involved in the South China Sea disputes have ratified the Unesco convention. Only China has the resources to enforce its claims to wrecks in the area and to excavate them.

China did little to enforce those claims until March 2012, when the government announced its first-ever crackdown on illegal salvage and archaeological work in China's territorial waters.

The incident at the Scarborough Shoal occurred less than a month later.

China says the standoff stemmed from an incident that April when a Philippines navy ship detained some Chinese fishermen near the Scarborough Shoal. But Chinese officials also have made it clear they regarded Mr. Goddio's project as illegal.

The Chinese marine-surveillance ship that approached the archaeologists was one of three Chinese vessels that took turns monitoring them over the next week or so, according to two people on board the archaeologists' ship and accounts in Chinese state media.

A Philippines coast guard ship was sent to the area but kept its distance. A tense standoff ensued as Chinese and Filipino officials accused one another of violating territorial boundaries.

Eventually, on April 18, the archaeologists' ship was forced to leave, prompting a formal protest from the Philippines' government. China has had effective control of the area since then.

The team abandoned its project. Mr. Goddio declined to comment.

Neither he nor the National Museum of the Philippines has a track record of using finds to justify territorial or ownership claims. "We don't really care who owns the ship," says Sheldon Clyde B. Jago-on, the head of underwater archaeology at the National Museum of the Philippines. "It's our shared heritage. It should be about collaboration. We care about the trade patterns, the trade routes, the cargo, the boat building."

Some experts say the overlap between politics and archaeology is neither surprising nor unique to China. Vietnam is expanding investment in its state-run archaeological program, and this year its Institute of Archaeology opened an underwater-archaeology department.

One of Vietnam's first projects has obvious political resonance—excavation of the site of a naval battle in which Vietnamese forces defeated a Chinese army in 938 A.D., bringing an end to centuries of Chinese rule over Vietnam. That site is on a river inside Vietnam.

The Scarborough Shoal incident, by contrast, marked the first time a country in the region used force to stop another nation's underwater archaeological project, experts say.

"China has the largest navy and the ability to chase people off, and then follow up with archaeological work," says Mark Staniforth, a marine archaeologist at Australia's Monash University who is working with Vietnam's Institute of Archaeology. "There's no sense they want to cooperate or collaborate with anyone."

Chinese Territorial Strife Hits Archaeology - WSJ.com


*


----------



## Fsjal

*



"There's no sense they want to cooperate or collaborate with us."

Click to expand...

*
Should have cooperated in the first place.


----------



## Fsjal

Zero_wing said:


> Man the chinese imperial are really pushing the world to the brink of war


They're pushing the world to a brink of war because idiots like you are motivating them to. 

Think before you speak.


----------



## Zero_wing

Again you imperials are just protecting your imperialist nation the actions speaks for its self imps



Durrrrrrr said:


> Well, the US imperial has been at war since 2001, ignoring the UN. But that is ok, cause its the US.



And your Imperial nation can even go to ITCLOS how funny your quoting the UN that why Imp


----------



## Zero_wing

Why so they can steal more filipino territories, Resources etc. Nice one Faker


----------



## acid rain

The funny thing chinese claim Brunei's beaches in their territorial ambitions.


----------



## GR!FF!N

Indian Dhows in SCS??we should lay claim immediately...


----------



## Krueger

Bagus BT Saragih, The Jakarta Post, Jakarta | World | Thu, December 05 2013


Foreign Minister Marty Natalegawa said he did not want to see tensions in Southeast Asia following the Chinese government’s establishment of an Air Defense Identification Zone (ADIZ), which has escalated tensions between China and some Pacific nations including Japan and South Korea.

“I don’t want to specifically refer to the [ADIZ] but I think Indonesia, just like other nations, is interested in ensuring there are no tensions in our region,” Marty said at his office after meeting with Australian Foreign Minister Julie Bishop on Thursday.

Marty was asked to comment on suggestions that China’s act in claiming the zone in the East China Sea, which triggered protests - particularly from Japan - could also be implemented in the South China Sea, where China and four ASEAN nations have territorial disputes.

“Everything must be addressed through dialogue,” Marty said.

“We will declare our stance when the time comes,” the minister said when asked to clarify Indonesia’s stance on the ADIZ issue.

RI wants to avoid Chinese tensions in Southeast Asia, says Marty | The Jakarta Post


----------



## terranMarine

You must be very disappointed that China isn't withdrawing her own ADIZ and keep posting news on how the region wants to avoid the increase of tension.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## S10

Bunch of relic hunters stealing historical artifacts to sell on the black market, and now the media is spinning it as "archeology". I suppose they should refer to drug dealers as "pharmacist" too.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## GCTom

US tried to use military powers to coerce China to abandon its ADIZ by sending their B-52 Bombers, American Warplanes, and Japanese Warplanes into the China's ADIZ. But China stood its ground.

US tried with hypocritical political powers, by sending Biden to China to force it to abandon its ADIZ. China Stood its ground.

Biden came and gone.

China still have its ADIZ.


----------



## Jlaw

S10 said:


> Bunch of relic hunters stealing historical artifacts to sell on the black market, and now the media is spinning it as "archeology". I suppose they should refer to drug dealers as "pharmacist" too.


Exactly, its like saying Dr. Dre is a real MD.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Durrrrrrr

Off course, why should China obey the ITCLOS when US doesn't care either. You only proves my point that China is just doing the same thing as what the US has been doing i.e ignoring world order due to might. Therefore, can't blame China alone for world unrest since US is even more guilty of that charge. 

So for the Philippine, cry to the UN or ITCLOS as much as you want for your fate is that of a mere pawn in the match between US and China. Basically, no one gives a shit what you think, only what is your value. Frankly, not even US wish to stick up for Philippine to upset China since its just not worth it, it is screwed in the long run on the issue.


----------



## Nike

Just keep it simple, let the Chinese playing with their ADIZ, and Indonesia build up her military power with the help of western countries and Russia

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Fsjal

madokafc said:


> Just keep it simple, let the Chinese playing with their ADIZ, and Indonesia build up her military power with the help of western countries and Russia


Hey!

Indonesia can't be the only one building up on defense...


----------



## Superboy

Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore are allies of China against Phillipines. Thailand, Cambodia, Laos are allies of China against Vietnam. North Korea, South Korea, Taiwan are China's allies against Japan. China has the numbers game on its side.


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Superboy said:


> Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore are allies of China against Phillipines. Thailand, Cambodia, Laos are allies of China against Vietnam. North Korea, South Korea, Taiwan are China's ally against Japan. China has the numbers game on its side.



Indonesia is Neutral, if you want to go to war just don't drag us.


----------



## Zero_wing

Durrrrrrr said:


> Off course, why should China obey the ITCLOS when US doesn't care either. You only proves my point that China is just doing the same thing as what the US has been doing i.e ignoring world order due to might. Therefore, can't blame China alone for world unrest since US is even more guilty of that charge.
> 
> So for the Philippine, cry to the UN or ITCLOS as much as you want for your fate is that of a mere pawn in the match between US and China. Basically, no one gives a shit what you think, only what is your value. Frankly, not even US wish to stick up for Philippine to upset China since its just not worth it, it is screwed in the long run on the issue.



Wow burn trying to rationalized evil nice so tell me how many people seceded on doing that (please check the Second World war for reference) wow (zero) not so much and its Philippines d bag man if your going to insult a country at less do it right imp.



Fsjal said:


> They're pushing the world to a brink of war because idiots like you are motivating them to.
> 
> Think before you speak.



Well be truthful first and use your own damn advice you faking troll @hole


----------



## Zero_wing

Man this just other china invasion plan in motion


----------



## shuttler

Superboy said:


> Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore are allies of China against Phillipines. Thailand, Cambodia, Laos are allies of China against Vietnam. North Korea, South Korea, Taiwan are China's allies against Japan. China has the numbers game on its side.



They are not allies and hardly strategic partners of China
All of them are for trade and arguably only Cambodia and Laos are closer to China because of trade and the Vietnamese' threat on them
On paper, they will not aggravate anyone
S Korea, Singapore and Thailand have US military bases
Taiwan will take their stance dependent on the situations
By and large the US and its cohorts have a bigger influence on these countries than China because the imperialists are unscrupulous and can be insane


----------



## Durrrrrrr

Zero_wing said:


> Man this just other china invasion plan in motion



I suppose from the philipine's perspective it is an invasion, the question is what can you do about it? Sent in your navy or keep begging US aid and hope international pressure can make China back off. well those methods didn't work against US and Soviets during the cold war, not gonna work today. US, UK and other European power claimed islands across the globe because they could hold it. At least China is doing it right off its coast more or less.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## MarveL

*Liaoning and J-15 jets to conduct drills in South China Sea*
Luis Weng and Staff Reporter 2013-12-08 11:34 (GMT+8)






Two J-15 fighters fly over the Liaoning aircraft carrier during a drill on Sept. 21. (Photo/CNS)

China's first aircraft carrier, the Liaoning, has set sail from the Qingdao naval base in northern China's Shandong province and will reach the disputed South China Sea within months to conduct a range of military training exercises, our sister paper Want Daily reports.

The J-15 naval carrier-based fighter jets will also join in the military exercises and will conduct live-fire tests to enhance air defense anti-missile, anti-ship, anti-submarine capabilities in three areas.

The live-fire tests will begin next year in the South China Sea, testing the J-15 fighter's capability in air combat and anti-ship warfare missions, according to a report by Hong Kong's Phoenix New Media.

The J-15 fighters will also test their scrambling capabilities and perform nighttime drills in the next three to five months to ensure they possess the power to attack remote outposts and their 24-hour fighting capability, the report said.

In addition to the J-15, the aircraft-carrier fleet includes two destroyers, two cruisers and two frigates to match the Liaoning. The country's nuclear-powered submarines will also join the fleet in the training exercises.

Meanwhile, observers said the aircraft carrier will run exercises in different areas and open waters, and the Liaoning and J-15 jets will have to prove whether they are capable of operating in the hot temperatures and high humidity of the South China Sea.

A number of countries lay claim to islands in the region, notably the Spratly islands consisting of more than 750 reefs, islets, atolls, cays and islands. They are claimed in whole or in part by China, Malaysia, the Philippines, Brunei, Vietnam and Taiwan.

Liaoning and J-15 jets to conduct drills in South China Sea｜Politics｜News｜WantChinaTimes.com


----------



## Zero_wing

Durrrrrrr said:


> I suppose from the philipine's perspective it is an invasion, the question is what can you do about it? Sent in your navy or keep begging US aid and hope international pressure can make China back off. well those methods didn't work against US and Soviets during the cold war, not gonna work today. US, UK and other European power claimed islands across the globe because they could hold it. At least China is doing it right off its coast more or less.



Wow that's the most stupid post i have ever hear so your saying that being outlaw of international law is working and all the lesson of the past should be ignored because it suits you better


----------



## Oldman1

Durrrrrrr said:


> I suppose from the philipine's perspective it is an invasion, the question is what can you do about it? Sent in your navy or keep begging US aid and hope international pressure can make China back off. well those methods didn't work against US and Soviets during the cold war, not gonna work today. US, UK and other European power claimed islands across the globe because they could hold it. At least China is doing it right off its coast more or less.



Only because thats the only thing China can do. Claim what is belongs on the coast. Can't claim North America because of its past exploration. That would be knocking heads with the U.S. as well as Canada and Mexico.


----------



## Zero_wing

Again China's Imperialism at work


----------



## Fsjal

What are you gonna do about it?

Use a boat and sail in front of the Chinese carrier, and hold a banner saying "F**k off!"

I'd like to see you try.


----------



## BoQ77

Vietnam three times defeated Yuan dynasty, 
one of them we sunk 400 warships of them in Bach Dang battle, nearly 800 years ago

And many times we killed millions of Han troops in our land, and Han ships from prehistoric to 17th century.

Let imagine, one day Mongol and China come for explore some sunk ships and skulls as a prove of ... their land and sea .... stupid thing


----------



## cirr

CMS 9010 launched on 05.12.2013 at HPS in GuangZhou，China：











More in the pipeline。

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zero_wing

Durrrrrrr said:


> I suppose from the philipine's perspective it is an invasion, the question is what can you do about it? Sent in your navy or keep begging US aid and hope international pressure can make China back off. well those methods didn't work against US and Soviets during the cold war, not gonna work today. US, UK and other European power claimed islands across the globe because they could hold it. At least China is doing it right off its coast more or less.



How is being a bully a right thing?


----------



## Zero_wing

Fsjal said:


> What are you gonna do about it?
> 
> Use a boat and sail in front of the Chinese carrier, and hold a banner saying "F**k off!"
> 
> I'd like to see you try.



More than you know imps faker why are so defensive about Imperial china while you say so much about the Philippines if you are a filipino then? heck you can't even say anything in Filipino its obvious who the hell you are you 50 cent drone!


----------



## Zero_wing

shuttler said:


> They are not allies and hardly strategic partners of China
> All of them are for trade and arguably only Cambodia and Laos are closer to China because of trade and the Vietnamese' threat on them
> On paper, they will not aggravate anyone
> S Korea, Singapore and Thailand have US military bases
> Taiwan will take their stance dependent on the situations
> By and large the US and its cohorts have a bigger influence on these countries than China because the imperialists are unscrupulous and can be insane



Says the Nation who are real imperialist by claim huge waters and territories that does and never belong to them

Says the Nation who is afraid of international law and prefers bullying weaker nations by using military force 

Says the Nation who kill millions of its own people to keep a power hungry man in power and yet advocate to be a peaceful nation ya right

Says the Nation who invade other countries like Tibet and East Turkmenistan and yet says it never invade anyone ya sure and Unicorns are just next door to the purple mountains of your local cake house. 

Says the Nation who was made by warlord to suit his needs and lust for power and name's the whole country after himself and yet kills more to make himself immortal and build him a huge wall and takes credit for it

Man china is just full of Evil

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Fsjal

Zero_wing said:


> Says the Nation who are real imperialist by claim huge waters and territories that does and never belong to them
> 
> Says the Nation who is afraid of international law and prefers bullying weaker nations by using military force
> 
> Says the Nation who kill millions of its own people to keep a power hungry man in power and yet advocate to be a peaceful nation ya right
> 
> Says the Nation who invade other countries like *Tibet and East Turkmenistan* and yet says it never invade anyone ya sure and Unicorns are just next door to the purple mountains of your local cake house.
> 
> Says the Nation who was made by warlord to suit his needs and lust for power and name's the whole country after himself and yet kills more to make himself immortal and build him a huge wall and takes credit for it
> 
> Man china is just full of Evil


Tibet has been part of China since the Yuan Dynasty while East Turkestan is a fake place created by Turks themselves. Go learn about China's history before rubbing your sh*t on it.

You don't even know anything about China, apart from calling them "imperialists."

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## $@rJen

Fsjal said:


> Tibet has been part of China since the Yuan Dynasty while East Turkestan is a fake place created by Turks themselves. Go learn about China's history before rubbing your sh*t on it.
> 
> You don't even know anything about China, apart from calling them "imperialists."



You are a Filipino but you support China's stand on SCS???


----------



## Fsjal

sarjenprabhu said:


> You are a Filipino but you support China's stand on SCS???


Only if they share the oil in the SCS.


----------



## Fsjal

sarjenprabhu said:


> You Believe China would Share it's oil and Islands with Philippines??? Chinese Greed would never go away


We don't know what China is thinking right now. Just wait for something to happen. Also, China hasn't started drilling for oil yet.


----------



## 无奈的灬枫叶

WOW..吵得不可开交啊


----------



## $@rJen

Fsjal said:


> We don't know what China is thinking right now. Just wait for something to happen. Also, China hasn't started drilling for oil yet.



China hasn't started the drill because of Japs and US. They now established the identification zone, started patrolling the islands... there's no strong response from Philippines while Chinese boats roam free around those Islands claimed by Philippines... what eles do you expect from your government when they start drill for oil


----------



## Snomannen

Zero_wing said:


> Says the Nation who are real imperialist by claim huge waters and territories that does and never belong to them
> 
> Says the Nation who is afraid of international law and prefers bullying weaker nations by using military force
> 
> Says the Nation who kill millions of its own people to keep a power hungry man in power and yet advocate to be a peaceful nation ya right
> 
> Says the Nation who invade other countries like Tibet and East Turkmenistan and yet says it never invade anyone ya sure and Unicorns are just next door to the purple mountains of your local cake house.
> 
> Says the Nation who was made by warlord to suit his needs and lust for power and name's the whole country after himself and yet kills more to make himself immortal and build him a huge wall and takes credit for it
> 
> Man china is just full of Evil



China at least has the historic record since hundreds year ago and had wars with several countries such as French and Japan over those islands , yet the true imperialist is the one who never ruled those islands yet dare to step their dirty feet on and claim them without any right~

What the freak is an "international law", how about you tell UK to give back Falkland to Argentina, tell Korea follow the "international law" and give back the island to Japan and free the people of Moroland based on your stupid "international law"~

And that guy living in a country allied with masters Spain and US who have been killing countless weaker people in the south and take over their lands (not yet finish) is much better than China~

Tibet and XinJiang are never considered as independence country by any country. They are always considered as part of China and always being controlled by the Chinese central government. Unlike some greed, arrogant nation which dared to follow the border line draw by its former master and invaded(ing) other people's lands which are never belongs to the dog which was just freed by its owner~

Which country in the world is not created by a "warlord" to suit his/her needs you ignorant stupid bastard~  "name's the whole country after himself"? What the flying heck? The Empire is called Qin and the Emperor's name is 嬴政 Ying Zheng. 秦始皇 Qin Shi Huang is just a title just like Genghis Khan you uneducated fool~ Based on your stupid logic every killing in the history are all only happened in Chinese history, other countries were so peaceful and they never killed a cutie hamster and the~ Oh but don't forget those evil French people who built the Maginot Line and Romans who built a "great wall" in Britain~

Some people are not only stupid, but evil, cold-blood, retarded, and sick.


----------



## Zero_wing

Some people are not only stupid, but evil, cold-blood, retarded, and sick.

YA LIKE YOU 

Again if you don't what international law get a damn book why should do all the work for you.
This typical imp bull your running out of facts and lies to say so go back to insults which has basis at all just on typical twekan brain i figures



Fsjal said:


> Tibet has been part of China since the Yuan Dynasty while East Turkestan is a fake place created by Turks themselves. Go learn about China's history before rubbing your sh*t on it.
> 
> You don't even know anything about China, apart from calling them "imperialists."



Again your wrong she was interdependent country not part of anything and again typical imp lies so your really are twek@n imp



sarjenprabhu said:


> You Believe China would Share it's oil and Islands with Philippines??? Chinese Greed would never go away



Because his twek@n imp a chinamen trying to use a filipino flag to convince the world that some filipinos (which is stupid by the way) support chinese imperialism he is clearly a faker imp



Fsjal said:


> Tibet has been part of China since the Yuan Dynasty while East Turkestan is a fake place created by Turks themselves. Go learn about China's history before rubbing your sh*t on it.
> 
> You don't even know anything about China, apart from calling them "imperialists."



because they are bakit galit ka? totoo na man imperalista sila?


----------



## Fsjal

Zero_wing said:


> because they are bakit galit ka? totoo na man imperalista sila?


Hindi imperialista sila. Ang kulit mo.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## jhungary

KirovAirship said:


> What the freak is an "international law", how about you tell UK to give back Falkland to Argentina, tell Korea follow the "international law" and give back the island to Japan and free the people of Moroland based on your stupid "international law"~


 
To be fair, before Falkland War, the UK were actually considered to hand back the island to Argentine, it have no use for them and it's too far away to protect. However, the folks in the Island said no in the referendum, and after the british blood was shed in the island, chances are slim to nothing.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Pakistanisage

madokafc said:


> Just keep it simple, let the Chinese playing with their ADIZ, and Indonesia build up her military power with the help of western countries and Russia






Can you really TRUST the Western Countries....


----------



## Nike

Pakistanisage said:


> Can you really TRUST the Western Countries....



Money and weapons, mmm and transfer technology that's what we trust from them, their ideals? no thanks just leave us alone.


----------



## Snomannen

Zero_wing said:


> Some people are not only stupid, but evil, cold-blood, retarded, and sick.
> 
> YA LIKE YOU
> 
> Again if you don't what international law get a damn book why should do all the work for you.
> This typical imp bull your running out of facts and lies to say so go back to insults which has basis at all just on typical twekan brain i figures
> 
> Again your wrong she was interdependent country not part of anything and again typical imp lies so your really are twek@n imp



Me~? I'm not the bloody sick bastard who made fun of dead people and posting racist, stupid comments around~

Tell me about this YOUR very own "international law" deal with the conflict between Korea and Japan, Palestine and Israel, Russia and Japan and even your greed country and Malaysia~

Tibet was not an freaking independent country, it has been ruling by the central government for several centuries and they always have to obey their law your ignorant fool. When the UK invaded Tibetan region, they sighed contract and negotiated with the Qing government, not with those useless Lamas. 
I wonder if Spanish and American ever give a flying X to you people's opinion when they ordered you to invade people of Moroland and stole their land~

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Durrrrrrr

Zero_wing said:


> Wow that's the most stupid post i have ever hear so your saying that being outlaw of international law is working and all the lesson of the past should be ignored because it suits you better



It is the most stupid post you ever heard because it is what you don't want to hear. but it is the truth how this world works. If you want example, then just look at what US had done in the last 20 years as the sole superpower which is no different than what the Mongols, the Romans, the British and all other sole dominant powers had done. I am not ignoring the past, I am just acknowledging it. You on the other hand still naively believes all of what I said is not true, so who is really stupid? 

If you think I am wrong, state your case and facts, but all you have done is repeat the same thing or call everyone imp (guess that must be the best insult you can think of). Really, if that is not the example of an ignorant and dumb *** fool then I don't know what is.



Oldman1 said:


> Only because thats the only thing China can do. Claim what is belongs on the coast. Can't claim North America because of its past exploration. That would be knocking heads with the U.S. as well as Canada and Mexico.



China can't claim North America because its power projection and dominance can't go that far. White people weren't the first to settle the old west, Africa, or India, did that stop them from claiming the land there? 

Actually US tried to claim Canada once in 1812 war, but failed. But it did manage to claim 1/2 of Mexico. So really, its all about power projection and ability to dominance rather than historical prescience.



Zero_wing said:


> How is being a bully a right thing?



Oh being a bully is a very good thing for majority of the citizens of a country most of the time if the country can pull it off. Just look at the living standard of US and Europe, all those accumulation wealth came from bullying. You only think its a bad thing because Philippine is too weak so its being bullied. China learned that lesson 100 years ago, apparently you guys have not.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Durrrrrrr

Zero_wing said:


> Again China's Imperialism at work



And what about Philippine? Isn't it trying to grab the same resources as China? Does it make it more right for Philippine to grab it than China? 

If those islands were part of Philippine and China were simply annexing it then I don't think US would stay this quiet. The fact is those islands were in dispute and were claimed by ROC historically. However, it is closer to Philippine and PRC and ROC weren't in a position to defend those islands for a while. So Philippine started to encroach upon them for a while, hence the dispute. It is actually pretty sneaky that Philippine government grounded a ship to claim those reefs. So really, no one is more guilty or more right than another. At the end of it, it comes down a match of strength.



Zero_wing said:


> More than you know imps faker why are so defensive about Imperial china while you say so much about the Philippines if you are a filipino then? heck you can't even say anything in Filipino its obvious who the hell you are you 50 cent drone!



wow, talk about being defensive. Whether you like it or not, he has a point, what can Philippine do about it other than crying to Uncle Sam and ASEAN.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zero_wing

KirovAirship said:


> Me~? I'm not the bloody sick bastard who made fun of dead people and posting racist, stupid comments around~
> 
> Tell me about this YOUR very own "international law" deal with the conflict between Korea and Japan, Palestine and Israel, Russia and Japan and even your greed country and Malaysia~
> 
> Tibet was not an freaking independent country, it has been ruling by the central government for several centuries and they always have to obey their law your ignorant fool. When the UK invaded Tibetan region, they sighed contract and negotiated with the Qing government, not with those useless Lamas.
> I wonder if Spanish and American ever give a flying X to you people's opinion when they ordered you to invade people of Moroland and stole their land~



And yet you continued to do man nice try imp


----------



## Snomannen

Zero_wing said:


> And yet you continued to do man nice try imp


I'm continue to be a normal person, while you stupid bastard are keep making people sick~


----------



## Rechoice

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Indonesia is Neutral, if you want to go to war just don't drag us.



Its very funny when you like to be leader of region.


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Rechoice said:


> Its very funny when you like to be leader of region.



Its not funny because its a border dispute. By taking part of it that mean we're directly interfering with your internal matter. That's not how Indonesia's foreign policy rolls.


----------



## Rechoice

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Its not funny because its a border dispute. By taking part of it that mean we're directly interfering with your internal matter. That's not how Indonesia's foreign policy rolls.



What is funny leader of the region like you, telling with useless diplomacy words, take a way to get peace, good luck.


----------



## NiceGuy

shuttler said:


> They are not allies and hardly strategic partners of China
> All of them are for trade and arguably only Cambodia and Laos are closer to China because of trade and the Vietnamese' threat on them
> On paper, they will not aggravate anyone
> S Korea, Singapore and Thailand have US military bases
> Taiwan will take their stance dependent on the situations
> By and large the US and its cohorts have a bigger influence on these countries than China because the imperialists are unscrupulous and can be insane


Laos sided with VN against China in 1979 , more than 200,000 undercover VNese troop still in Laos. Camb's military is controlled by pro-VN and Cambodian-Vietnamese general.....and yet, low IQ Chinese here still think Cambodia and Laos are on their side


----------



## Nike

Rechoice said:


> What is funny leader of the region like you, telling with useless diplomacy words, take a way to get peace, good luck.



or simply you want us to drop one oversized parachute division and launch beachhead operation with more than three marine division we have over your James shoal island chain? occupy them, and arrogantly built strong hold here, are Indonesia had the capacity to do that? yes we had. But why we can't do that, is simply avoiding conflict is suit all of our national interest and managing this conflict in manner will bring positive results in the end for all of ASEAN member.


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Rechoice said:


> What is funny leader of the region like you, telling with useless diplomacy words, take a way to get peace, good luck.



We bought some time & the Chinese is now intersted to sign the CoC. With ASEAN. I say Diplomacy has done its job.


----------



## Zero_wing

KirovAirship said:


> I'm continue to be a normal person, while you stupid bastard are keep making people sick~



Ya right that's your twek@n definition of normal? a lair, cheater, arrogant pr^ck racist fine your chinese normal

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zero_wing

Durrrrrrr said:


> It is the most stupid post you ever heard because it is what you don't want to hear. but it is the truth how this world works. If you want example, then just look at what US had done in the last 20 years as the sole superpower which is no different than what the Mongols, the Romans, the British and all other sole dominant powers had done. I am not ignoring the past, I am just acknowledging it. You on the other hand still naively believes all of what I said is not true, so who is really stupid?
> 
> If you think I am wrong, state your case and facts, but all you have done is repeat the same thing or call everyone imp (guess that must be the best insult you can think of). Really, if that is not the example of an ignorant and dumb *** fool then I don't know what is.
> 
> 
> 
> China can't claim North America because its power projection and dominance can't go that far. White people weren't the first to settle the old west, Africa, or India, did that stop them from claiming the land there?
> 
> Actually US tried to claim Canada once in 1812 war, but failed. But it did manage to claim 1/2 of Mexico. So really, its all about power projection and ability to dominance rather than historical prescience.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh being a bully is a very good thing for majority of the citizens of a country most of the time if the country can pull it off. Just look at the living standard of US and Europe, all those accumulation wealth came from bullying. You only think its a bad thing because Philippine is too weak so its being bullied. China learned that lesson 100 years ago, apparently you guys have not.



Ha man you learned? wow and yet you guys claim you have no intentions like that against anyone so your saying to us that you guys are really up to no good? well that's great some truth for a change good luck with that so long for your peaceful rise


----------



## Snomannen

Zero_wing said:


> Ya right that's your twek@n definition of normal? a lair, cheater, arrogant pr^ck racist fine your chinese normal



I just love to see how you the true lair, cheater, arrogant, racist scumbag being ashamed into anger~

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

CCG 3401 seen in sea trials：


----------



## Fsjal

You have not read a single word, haven't you, Zero_brain?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## rott

Fsjal said:


> You have not read a single word, haven't you, Zero_brain?


Zero_brain 
I couldn't help but laugh.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zero_wing

KirovAirship said:


> I just love to see how you the true lair, cheater, arrogant, racist scumbag being ashamed into anger~



Who said? you?


----------



## Zero_wing

Well that's what evil do laugh at people



Fsjal said:


> You have not read a single word, haven't you, Zero_brain?



Because your rant is stupid your fake person your not a real filipino so why should i take anything from you gago ka ba?


----------



## Rechoice



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Zero_wing

Fsjal said:


> You have not read a single word, haven't you, Zero_brain?



Ya your still a faker trash bin


----------



## Fsjal

Zero_wing said:


> Ya your still a faker trash bin


Lol, you replied to my post the second time.


----------



## Zero_wing

Fsjal said:


> Lol, you replied to my post the second time.



And say that again and again trash bin


----------



## Alpha1




----------



## Fsjal

Alpha1 said:


> View attachment 11916


If you look at the image, it says Taiwan has a million active soldiers.

Taiwan only has 290,000 active soldiers. Although, China does have 2 million active soldiers.


----------



## Srinivas

Rechoice said:


>




Add Brahmos missiles and Vietnamese Navy will become a formidable force in SCS

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cirr

Breaking News：

A new order for 24 3000-tonne CCG vessels （Types 718 and 818）with 76mm gun has been placed with 4 shipbuilders。

There are also plans for 5000-tonne and 10000-tonne CCG vessels aside from the two 12000-tonne CCG flagships under construction at JNS。


----------



## cirr




----------



## Rechoice

*Vietnam praises US plans for maritime security assistance *
Last updated: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 08:00

Vietnam appreciates the US Secretary of State John Kerry's commitment to help Vietnam enhance its maritime security capacity with material and financial aid, Vietnamese Ambassador to the US Nguyen Quoc Cuong said Tuesday.


Cuong told the Vietnamese media that maritime security will become one of the fields in which Vietnam and the US will continue to boost cooperation to create a secured and peaceful marine environment.


During his official visit to Vietnam from December 14-16, Kerry announced an initial commitment of US$32.5 million in new regional and bilateral assistance to expand maritime capacity building in Southeast Asia.


With the new contribution, US maritime security assistance to the region will exceed $156 million over the next two years, AP quoted Kerry as saying.


In Vietnam, the US intends to provide $18 million in new assistance to enhance the capacity of coastal patrol units to deploy rapidly for search and rescue, disaster response, and other activities, beginning with training and the provision of five fast patrol vessels to the Vietnamese Coast Guard.


The US Department of State said in a release Monday that the Secretary’s announcement builds upon the longstanding US commitment to support the efforts of Southeast Asian nations in enhancing security and prosperity in the region, including in the maritime domain.



Thanh Nien News


----------



## cirr

CMS 7008 trials


----------



## EastSea

*Russia hands over Cam Ranh submarine sailor training center to Vietnam*
_VietNamNet Bridge - Representatives from Russia and Vietnam signed a document on the transfer of a submarine sailor training center for the 636 Kilo class submarine in Cam Ranh Bay to the Vietnam Navy.






Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung yesterday, May 13, inspected the progress of Viet Nam's Kilo-class submarine, which is being tested in Kaliningrad, Russia.

_
On November 7, Russia will hand over the first submarine to Vietnam.

According to the Vietnam News Agency, the handover ceremony will be held in January 2014, on the occasion the first of the six submarines of project 636 to dock at Cam Ranh Bay.

More than 40 Vietnamese naval officers studied under a 1.5-year program in Russia to train teachers and trainers for the center.

The contract to provide six “Varshavyanka” diesel-electric submarines worth $2 billion to Vietnam was signed in 2009. This is one of the largest naval equipment export contracts of Russia.

The leading analyst on defense in Southeast Asia, Prof. Carl Thayer, said that the military balance in the East Sea will change when Vietnam puts into use Kilo submarines.

It is expected that on November 7, the first submarine named HQ-182 Hanoi will be handed over to Vietnam. The second submarine named HQ-183 Ho Chi Minh City has been completed. The remaining submarines are HQ-184 Hai Phong, HQ-186 Khanh Hoa, HQ-185 Da Nang and HQ- 87 Ba Ria-Vung Tau.

Kilo class submarines are capable of operating at sea in 45 days and they are considered formidable weapon by quiet operation, small noise and being equipped with modern weapons, including missiles and cruise missiles.

*Tran Cham*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

CCG 2305（3000-tonne plus ）launched on 30.12.2013：






More in the pipeline。


----------



## EastSea

First Kilo submarine arrives in Vietnam.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

China's first dedicated ship for underwater archaeology about to be launched：






Hello SCS。


----------



## beijingwalker

*China Orders Foreign Fishing Vessels Out of Most of the South China Sea*
New rules issued prior to near collision between U.S. warship and Chinese naval vessel



> BY: Bill Gertz
> January 7, 2014 5:00 am
> 
> China has ordered foreign fishing vessels to obtain approval from regional authorities before fishing or surveying in two thirds of the South China Sea, setting up the potential for new confrontations between Beijing and its neighbors over maritime sovereignty claims to disputed islands.
> 
> The new orders went into effect Jan. 1 after they were issued late November by Hainan island provincial government authorities.
> 
> *Under the new regulations, all foreign fishing boats that transit into a new Hainan’s administrative zone in the sea—an area covering two-thirds of the 1.5 million square mile South China Sea—must be approved by Chinese authorities.*
> 
> The new measures were imposed Nov. 29 and announced Dec. 3 in state media as part of a policy of enforcing Chinese fisheries law.
> 
> Chinese law states that any ships that violate the fishing regulations will be forced out of the zone, have their catch confiscated, and face fines of up to $82,600. In some cases, fishing boats could be confiscated and their crew prosecuted under Chinese law.
> 
> It is the first time China has made a clear legal claim to disputed fishing grounds claimed by Vietnam, Philippines, Malaysia, Brunei, and other states in the region.
> 
> To date, there have been no reports of Chinese maritime patrol ships taking action against foreign fishing vessels in the region under the new rules. Clashes between China and its neighbors have taken place in the past, however.
> 
> The new South China Sea fishing rules have not been disclosed publicly outside China.
> 
> At stake in the dispute are key issues of international freedom of navigation, and China’s attempt to seize and control waters known to contain large fishing grounds in addition to untapped reserves of oil and natural gas.
> 
> China last month set off an international imbroglio with Japan, Philippines, South Korea, and the United States by declaring an air defense identification zone over the nearby East China Sea. Japan rejected the Chinese claims for the air defense zone. The Pentagon ordered two nuclear-capable B-52 bombers to fly through the zone in a challenge to the Chinese claims.
> 
> Then last month a U.S. Navy guided missile cruiser nearly clashed with a Chinese warship in the South China Sea near Hainan island, as the U.S. ship, the USS Cowpens, monitored Chinese naval maneuvers.
> 
> A State Department spokesman had no comment. “A Chinese embassy spokeswoman had no immediate comment.”
> 
> Secretary of State John Kerry said in Manila Dec. 17 that the United States wants maritime disputes in the region resolved peacefully.
> 
> “We strongly support ASEAN’s efforts with China to move quickly to conclude a code of conduct as a key to reducing the risk of accidents or miscalculation,” he said.
> 
> “In that process, we think that claimants have a responsibility to clarify their claims and to align their claims with international law.”
> 
> Kerry said the East China Sea air defense zone should not be implemented and warned China to “refrain from taking similar unilateral actions elsewhere in the region, and particularly over the South China Sea.”
> 
> Chinese state media have reported that due to the international backlash over the East China Sea zone, China is unlikely to declare a similar air defense zone in the South China Sea.
> 
> The no-fishing zone over two thirds of the South China Sea appears to be China’s effort to bolster its maritime sovereignty claims in that sea.
> 
> Analysts say the new Chinese fishing rules are likely to trigger larger disputes among China and other Southeast Asian states.
> 
> “This is truly significant, but not unexpected,” said former State Department official and China affairs expert John Tkacik.
> 
> Tkacik said declaration of the new Hainan maritime zone appears to be part of a policy by China of gradually tightening controls in the region. Earlier, Beijing had declared the entire South China Sea as its territory under a vague “Nine-Dash Line” covering the sea that Beijing claimed as an exclusive economic zone.
> 
> “Beijing is now stepping beyond its previous vagueness on the legal status of the ‘Nine Dash Line’ to promulgating a ‘provincial measure’ to see what the push-back is,” he said.
> 
> Declaration of the new Hainan fishing zone also appears to be designed to gradually force Southeast Asian states, Japan, and the United States to accept Chinese maritime encroachment.
> 
> Vietnam and China clashed militarily several times in the past 30 years over the Paracel islands, which are included in the new zone. Chinese ships fired on two Vietnamese fishing boats in 2005, killing 9 people. Video from Vietnam posted online several years ago also showed Chinese patrol boats firing machine guns at Vietnamese fishermen near the Paracels.
> 
> Additionally, Chinese naval vessels have confronted the Philippines over its claims to the Spratly islands, also located within the new Hainan no-fishing zone.
> 
> Other disputed fisheries in the Hainan zone include the Macclesfield Bank, located east of the Parcels, and Scarborough Shoal, near the Philippines’ Luzon Island.
> 
> China also has harassed U.S. intelligence-gathering ships in the South China Sea during the past several years.
> 
> The South China Sea was the scene of a U.S.-China military confrontation Dec. 5 when a Chinese navy tank landing ship sailed and stopped some 100 yards in front of the USS Cowpens, a guided missile cruiser.
> 
> Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel called the Chinese attempt to stop the Cowpens “irresponsible” and said the incident could have triggered a larger military showdown.
> 
> Tkacik said Southeast Asia states could challenge the new no-fishing zone through the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea.
> 
> “China is clearly flouting [the convention] with this announcement,” he said.
> 
> Beijing will likely deflect criticism of the no-fishing zone by claiming it was initiated by a regional government and thus is not part of national policy. However, China is not likely to rescind the rules and could initiate similar fishing restrictions in the East China Sea.
> 
> U.S. policymakers appear to believe that the U.S. Navy is sufficient to maintain and defend U.S. maritime rights under international law, without the U.N. Law of the Sea convention, Tkacik said, noting that while Japan has signed up to the convention, the United States has not.
> 
> “As China’s navy grows stronger—and the U.S. Navy shrinks—Washington’s options will run out in a few years,” he said.
> 
> “I don’t know that anyone in Washington, either at State or the Pentagon, is thinking this challenge out beyond a year,” he added. “It is America’s misfortune that it no longer has any real maritime strategists.”


----------



## Nike

If China trying to put this law into legal action, they are clearly made a great blunder and it will turn some friendly countries into their enemy, don't blame us if we confiscated your fishing vessel in Natuna Seas areas or even sink them with full forces as a reply for your actions. Even if it means war, let it be.


----------



## twocents

Bill Gertz is only fit for a tabloid. Quote him at your own peril.


----------



## beijingwalker

madokafc said:


> If China trying to put this law into legal action, they are clearly made a great blunder and it will turn some friendly countries into their enemy, don't blame us if we confiscated your fishing vessel in Natuna Seas areas or even sink them with full forces as a reply for your actions. Even if it means war, let it be.


 
Do you have a navy to do this job?


----------



## Beidou2020

Stop posting articles from this Bill Gertz loser !


----------



## NiceGuy

VN Fishermen Mai Phung Luu and his son in Paracel isl (occupied by China )in 2011 
tàu về đất liền và người dân nơi đây trở thành quen thuộc.










Người Việt bí mật chụp ảnh Hoàng Sa năm 2011 | Xã hội | Đọc báo, tin tức, thời sự với Báo Điện Tử Một thế giới

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Beast

madokafc said:


> If China trying to put this law into legal action, they are clearly made a great blunder and it will turn some friendly countries into their enemy, don't blame us if we confiscated your fishing vessel in Natuna Seas areas or even sink them with full forces as a reply for your actions. Even if it means war, let it be.



Australia and China, choose one!

Australia make a mockery of your president by spying on his phone without even a single apology while US will 100 percent back Australia. To fight the arrogant Ausie, you need China.



NiceGuy said:


> VN Fishermen Mai Phung Luu and his son in Paracel isl (occupied by China )in 2011
> tàu về đất liền và người dân nơi đây trở thành quen thuộc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Người Việt bí mật chụp ảnh Hoàng Sa năm 2011 | Xã hội | Đọc báo, tin tức, thời sự với Báo Điện Tử Một thế giới



This fisherman has report to CMA before able to enter parcel island


----------



## NiceGuy

Beast said:


> Australia and China, choose one!
> 
> Australia make a mockery of your president by spying on his phone without even a single apology while US will 100 percent back Australia. To fight the arrogant Ausie, you need China.


China cant even free itself from US's occupation in TW,so no hope for Indonesia to kick Aussie's azz with China's help


> This fisherman has report to CMA before able to enter parcel island


In 2011, he didnt report to anyone when entering Paracel, let see if any different in 2014


----------



## Viet

beijingwalker said:


> *China Orders Foreign Fishing Vessels Out of Most of the South China Sea*
> New rules issued prior to near collision between U.S. warship and Chinese naval vessel


utter bs. as usual, VN will ignore and declare such greediness as null and void, similar to your last declaration of last year.
Vietnam slams China’s fishing ban in East Sea | VOV Online Newspaper

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

Beidou2020 said:


> Stop posting articles from this Bill Gertz loser !


this is a fake news!


----------



## Beast

NiceGuy said:


> China cant even free itself from US's occupation in TW,so no hope for Indonesia to kick Aussie's azz with China's help
> 
> In 2011, he didnt report to anyone when entering Paracel, let see if any different in 2014



TW didn't even dare to declare independent. and ROC are investing and pouring huge money into mainland China, so why rock the boat?

And you so bravado? Why I didn't see VN patrol boat enter parcel island 
Cheap talk, kid.


----------



## Viet

Pulsar said:


> Next they'll order all fishing vessels out of the Indian Ocean!
> 
> This is getting to be hilarious! The Han dynasty has finally started to crack up!!


no worry, chinese vessels will start to harass the US 7th fleet. can´t wait to see the show.


----------



## Srinivas

China should Continue in that journey just like Hitler did before world war 2, only to see the destruction of what he created . Stupidity at its best!!!

China is the number one enemy for almost all the nations in Asia.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## beijingwalker

China issued this new rule with the intention of enforcing it in the future,but not now. .this rule is just a preemptive strategy.



Srinivas said:


> China should Continue in that journey just like Hitler did before world war 2, only to see the destruction of what he created . Stupidity at its best!!!
> 
> China is the number one enemy for almost all the nations in Asia.



I thought you were going to say Pakistan was. now you changed your order,ha

the new poll shows that the overriding majority of the people around the world believe that US is the top threat to the world security,China has a long way to go to overtake US.


----------



## armchairPrivate

Another

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zero_wing

man you guys are asking for war are you?


----------



## Viet

Zero_wing said:


> man you guys are asking for war are you?


he mate welcome back to the forum. are you ok?


----------



## Zero_wing

Viet said:


> he mate welcome back to the forum. are you ok?



well its Christmas break and in the philippines its a long one and its family time too so do the math


----------



## Viet

Zero_wing said:


> well its Christmas break and in the philippines its a long one and its family time too so do the math


hope all are well. your country is going a tough time...keep your head up, you are getting international support.


----------



## Srinivas

shuttler said:


> Oh glad to see that you start knowing you have made a *nonsense of your analogy*



I raised Valid points !!!

Your SCS *traffic* will only increase from here on thanks to the people like me.


----------



## shuttler

Srinivas said:


> I raised Valid points !!!
> 
> Your SCS *traffic* will only increase from here on thanks to the people like me.



We have not imposed any limitation to freedom of navigation in SCS


----------



## Srinivas

shuttler said:


> We have not imposed any limitation on freedom of navigation.



I know mate ....... No worries  !!!


----------



## shuttler

Srinivas said:


> I know mate ....... No worries  !!!



haha at last!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## SirHatesALot

I want fish


----------



## rott

Viet said:


> because you are a fool. very simple.
> haven´t you noticed this thread is a joke? there is no such announcement from China.


And three guesses for the *bigger fool *who went all out of sympathy for the pinoys.  
You need to check your post before posting crap and calling others fools. 
Haha... you're a funny little viet!


----------



## Viet

shuttler said:


> We have not imposed any limitation to freedom of navigation in SCS


unless you want to start WW III.


----------



## SirHatesALot

Hey China you should share fish


----------



## shuttler

Viet said:


> unless you want to start WW III.



dont blow this out of proportion
what are you smoking?


----------



## hurt

Srinivas said:


> Add Brahmos missiles and Vietnamese Navy will become a formidable force in SCS


What are you think about more than 40 type 056s.


----------



## hurt

EastSea said:


> First Kilo submarine arrives in Vietnam.


The 12th Kilo submarine service in scs already 8 years.


----------



## Rechoice

hurt said:


> The 12th Kilo submarine service in scs already 8 years.



Your Kilos are out of date.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## hurt

Rechoice said:


> Your Kilos are out of date.


Oh,I see.
Viet's kilos term of validity less than 8 years.


----------



## EastSea

hurt said:


> Oh,I see.
> Viet's kilos term of validity less than 8 years.



we have 6 updated Kilos, better than 12 olds.


----------



## hurt

EastSea said:


> we have 6 updated Kilos, better than 12 olds.


Which parts?
When you receive the 6th kilo ,my first kilo will retire .
More powerful submarines waiting for you.


----------



## BoQ77

*China Orders Foreign Fishing Vessels Out of Most of the South China Sea*
New rules issued prior to near collision between U.S. warship and Chinese naval vessel




South China Sea / AP

BY: Bill Gertz 
January 7, 2014 5:00 am

China has ordered foreign fishing vessels to obtain approval from regional authorities before fishing or surveying in two thirds of the South China Sea, setting up the potential for new confrontations between Beijing and its neighbors over maritime sovereignty claims to disputed islands.

The new orders went into effect Jan. 1 after they were issued late November by Hainan island provincial government authorities.

Under the new regulations, all foreign fishing boats that transit into a new Hainan’s administrative zone in the sea—an area covering two-thirds of the 1.5 million square mile South China Sea—must be approved by Chinese authorities.

The new measures were imposed Nov. 29 and announced Dec. 3 in state media as part of a policy of enforcing Chinese fisheries law.

Chinese law states that any ships that violate the fishing regulations will be forced out of the zone, have their catch confiscated, and face fines of up to $82,600. In some cases, fishing boats could be confiscated and their crew prosecuted under Chinese law.

It is the first time China has made a clear legal claim to disputed fishing grounds claimed by Vietnam, Philippines, Malaysia, Brunei, and other states in the region.

A Chinese maritime patrol boat struck a Vietnamese fishing boat Jan. 3 near the Paracel Islands in the first incident under the new rules, according to Vietnamese state media. The Chinese used Tasers and batons to subdue the fishermen and confiscated their 5-ton catch of fish along with fishing equipment. The incident was reported on the website Fishermen Stories.

The new South China Sea fishing rules have not been disclosed publicly outside China.

At stake in the dispute are key issues of international freedom of navigation, and China’s attempt to seize and control waters known to contain large fishing grounds in addition to untapped reserves of oil and natural gas.




China imposes fishing curbs: New regulations imposed Jan. 1 limit all foreign vessels from fishing in a zone covering two-thirds of the South China Sea.

China last month set off an international imbroglio with Japan, Philippines, South Korea, and the United States by declaring an air defense identification zone over the nearby East China Sea. Japan rejected the Chinese claims for the air defense zone. The Pentagon ordered two nuclear-capable B-52 bombers to fly through the zone in a challenge to the Chinese claims.

Then last month a U.S. Navy guided missile cruiser nearly clashed with a Chinese warship in the South China Sea near Hainan island, as the U.S. ship, the USS Cowpens, monitored Chinese naval maneuvers.

A State Department spokesman had no comment. “A Chinese embassy spokeswoman had no immediate comment.”

Secretary of State John Kerry said in Manila Dec. 17 that the United States wants maritime disputes in the region resolved peacefully.

“We strongly support ASEAN’s efforts with China to move quickly to conclude a code of conduct as a key to reducing the risk of accidents or miscalculation,” he said.

“In that process, we think that claimants have a responsibility to clarify their claims and to align their claims with international law.”

Kerry said the East China Sea air defense zone should not be implemented and warned China to “refrain from taking similar unilateral actions elsewhere in the region, and particularly over the South China Sea.”

Chinese state media have reported that due to the international backlash over the East China Sea zone, China is unlikely to declare a similar air defense zone in the South China Sea.

The no-fishing zone over two thirds of the South China Sea appears to be China’s effort to bolster its maritime sovereignty claims in that sea.

Analysts say the new Chinese fishing rules are likely to trigger larger disputes among China and other Southeast Asian states.

“This is truly significant, but not unexpected,” said former State Department official and China affairs expert John Tkacik.

Tkacik said declaration of the new Hainan maritime zone appears to be part of a policy by China of gradually tightening controls in the region. Earlier, Beijing had declared the entire South China Sea as its territory under a vague “Nine-Dash Line” covering the sea that Beijing claimed as an exclusive economic zone.

“Beijing is now stepping beyond its previous vagueness on the legal status of the ‘Nine Dash Line’ to promulgating a ‘provincial measure’ to see what the push-back is,” he said.

Declaration of the new Hainan fishing zone also appears to be designed to gradually force Southeast Asian states, Japan, and the United States to accept Chinese maritime encroachment.

Vietnam and China clashed militarily several times in the past 30 years over the Paracel islands, which are included in the new zone. Chinese ships fired on two Vietnamese fishing boats in 2005, killing 9 people. Video from Vietnam posted online several years ago also showed Chinese patrol boats firing machine guns at Vietnamese fishermen near the Paracels.

Additionally, Chinese naval vessels have confronted the Philippines over its claims to the Spratly islands, also located within the new Hainan no-fishing zone.

Other disputed fisheries in the Hainan zone include the Macclesfield Bank, located east of the Parcels, and Scarborough Shoal, near the Philippines’ Luzon Island.

China also has harassed U.S. intelligence-gathering ships in the South China Sea during the past several years.

The South China Sea was the scene of a U.S.-China military confrontation Dec. 5 when a Chinese navy tank landing ship sailed and stopped some 100 yards in front of the USS Cowpens, a guided missile cruiser.

Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel called the Chinese attempt to stop the Cowpens “irresponsible” and said the incident could have triggered a larger military showdown.

Tkacik said Southeast Asia states could challenge the new no-fishing zone through the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea.

“China is clearly flouting [the convention] with this announcement,” he said.

Beijing will likely deflect criticism of the no-fishing zone by claiming it was initiated by a regional government and thus is not part of national policy. However, China is not likely to rescind the rules and could initiate similar fishing restrictions in the East China Sea.

U.S. policymakers appear to believe that the U.S. Navy is sufficient to maintain and defend U.S. maritime rights under international law, without the U.N. Law of the Sea convention, Tkacik said, noting that while Japan has signed up to the convention, the United States has not.

“As China’s navy grows stronger—and the U.S. Navy shrinks—Washington’s options will run out in a few years,” he said.

“I don’t know that anyone in Washington, either at State or the Pentagon, is thinking this challenge out beyond a year,” he added. “It is America’s misfortune that it no longer has any real maritime strategists.”


----------



## rott

This topic has been posted before.


----------



## Eliter

西沙群岛 Xisha Islands or Paracel Islands
晋卿岛 Jinqing Dao, Drummond Island

关于在晋卿岛建设综合补给保障基地的建议









西沙群岛 Xisha Islands or Paracel Islands
永兴岛 Yongxing Dao, Yung-hsing Tao, Woody Island

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

china ís mad.


----------



## BoQ77

I think that's why China tank ship intercept the USS Cowpens !!!
Their reason should be "US combatant ship enters the water region inside nine-dashed-line"


----------



## EastSea

The Kilo Hà Nội (HQ-182) finished the first landing to the sea for the acceptance testing.












Tàu ngầm Hà Nội rời Cam Ranh tiến ra Biển Đông | Tin tức | Kienthuc.net.vn


----------



## Zero_wing

Viet said:


> hope all are well. your country is going a tough time...keep your head up, you are getting international support.



Ya i know a few months ago i was leading some of the Relief missions but i got some good r and r well its a filipino thing to join up with the family and friends in Christmas and New Years break


----------



## Zero_wing

Man this going to bad for the region so long peaceful rise hello chinese imperialism


----------



## EastSea

3 time posted.


----------



## MarveL

Beijing Shows Resolve in South China Sea Claims
BEIJING January 8, 2014 (AP)
By CHRISTOPHER BODEEN Associated Press

In a broadening campaign to enforce its territorial claims, China says it's beefing up its police powers in the disputed South China Sea and requiring foreign fishermen to ask Beijing's permission to operate within most of the vast, strategic waterway.

The move, which took effect this month, comes on the heels of the late November announcement of a new air defense zone requiring foreign planes to notify Beijing of flights over a huge swath of the East China Sea, where China is locked in a bitter territorial dispute with Japan.

The steps are prompting concerns that President Xi Jinping's push to assert China's role as a regional power could spark a confrontation with neighbors.

"These sort of assertions of sovereignty, or territorial claims, will continue. Xi believes he can't afford to be seen as soft," said City University of Hong Kong China politics expert Joseph Cheng.

The affected waters account for 2 million of the South China Sea's 3.5 million square kilometers (1.35 million square miles), a sweeping area encompassing island groups claimed by Vietnam, the Philippines and others — and in some cases occupied by their armed forces. The islands sit amid the world's busiest commercial sea lanes, along with rich fishing grounds and potential oil and gas deposits.

Philippines Department of Foreign Affairs spokesman Raul Hernandez said Wednesday that the country's diplomats were seeking more information on the new South China Sea rules. There was no immediate response from Vietnam.

The United States says it doesn't take sides in the sovereignty dispute but insists on the right to freedom of navigation in the area.

The new rules demand that foreign vessels seek permission to fish or survey within waters administered by Hainan, China's southernmost island province, which looks out over the South China Sea.

Authorities in the provincial city of Sansha, on an island far south of Hainan, held a joint drill Jan. 1 involving 14 ships and 190 personnel from various border patrol and law enforcement agencies.

"Rampant infringement by foreign fishing vessels" was among the activities targeted in the practice scenarios, law enforcement official Wang Shizhen was quoted as saying by the official China News Service.

Passed by Hainan's provincial legislature in late November, the new rules say only that permission must be obtained from unnamed "relevant departments" under China's Cabinet. Chinese law allows for the confiscation of catches and fishing equipment and fines of up to 500,000 yuan ($83,000) for violators.

While it would be nearly impossible to enforce the rule over such a vast area, the requirement seems to emphasize China's determination to compel foreign nations to take its sovereignty claims seriously.

Beijing has moved systematically to put teeth behind its island claims, setting up the Sansha city administration in 2012 to administer the scattered, lightly populated region of island groups and reefs.

China has also combined its civilian maritime agencies into a single coast guard to increase effectiveness, and even has cracked down on activity in the area by foreign maritime archeologists.

Farther north, China's announcement of its air defense zone drew expressions of concern from Japan, South Korea and Australia, all U.S. treaty partners.

The zone is seen largely as a means of strengthening China's claim to tiny uninhabited East China Sea islands administered by Japan and also claimed by Taiwan. For more than a year, Chinese patrol vessels have aggressively confronted Japanese ships in the area, leading to fears of a clash.

However, Xi is under far less nationalist pressure at home to take a hard line on South China Sea issues, said Cheng, the China politics expert.

Despite the new fishing rules, Beijing will likely seek to avoid increasing frictions by enforcing them too zealously, Cheng said.

"Beijing wants relations with Southeast Asia to be relatively smooth," he said. "They can't afford to alienate too many neighbors at one time."

Beijing Shows Resolve in South China Sea Claims - ABC News


----------



## EastSea

MarveL said:


> Beijing Shows Resolve in South China Sea Claims
> BEIJING January 8, 2014 (AP)
> By CHRISTOPHER BODEEN Associated Press
> 
> In a broadening campaign to enforce its territorial claims, China says it's beefing up its police powers in the disputed South China Sea and requiring foreign fishermen to ask Beijing's permission to operate within most of the vast, strategic waterway.
> 
> The move, which took effect this month, comes on the heels of the late November announcement of a new air defense zone requiring foreign planes to notify Beijing of flights over a huge swath of the East China Sea, where China is locked in a bitter territorial dispute with Japan.
> 
> The steps are prompting concerns that President Xi Jinping's push to assert China's role as a regional power could spark a confrontation with neighbors.
> 
> "These sort of assertions of sovereignty, or territorial claims, will continue. Xi believes he can't afford to be seen as soft," said City University of Hong Kong China politics expert Joseph Cheng.
> 
> The affected waters account for 2 million of the South China Sea's 3.5 million square kilometers (1.35 million square miles), a sweeping area encompassing island groups claimed by Vietnam, the Philippines and others — and in some cases occupied by their armed forces. The islands sit amid the world's busiest commercial sea lanes, along with rich fishing grounds and potential oil and gas deposits.
> 
> Philippines Department of Foreign Affairs spokesman Raul Hernandez said Wednesday that the country's diplomats were seeking more information on the new South China Sea rules. There was no immediate response from Vietnam.
> 
> The United States says it doesn't take sides in the sovereignty dispute but insists on the right to freedom of navigation in the area.
> 
> The new rules demand that foreign vessels seek permission to fish or survey within waters administered by Hainan, China's southernmost island province, which looks out over the South China Sea.
> 
> Authorities in the provincial city of Sansha, on an island far south of Hainan, held a joint drill Jan. 1 involving 14 ships and 190 personnel from various border patrol and law enforcement agencies.
> 
> "Rampant infringement by foreign fishing vessels" was among the activities targeted in the practice scenarios, law enforcement official Wang Shizhen was quoted as saying by the official China News Service.
> 
> Passed by Hainan's provincial legislature in late November, the new rules say only that permission must be obtained from unnamed "relevant departments" under China's Cabinet. Chinese law allows for the confiscation of catches and fishing equipment and fines of up to 500,000 yuan ($83,000) for violators.
> 
> While it would be nearly impossible to enforce the rule over such a vast area, the requirement seems to emphasize China's determination to compel foreign nations to take its sovereignty claims seriously.
> 
> Beijing has moved systematically to put teeth behind its island claims, setting up the Sansha city administration in 2012 to administer the scattered, lightly populated region of island groups and reefs.
> 
> China has also combined its civilian maritime agencies into a single coast guard to increase effectiveness, and even has cracked down on activity in the area by foreign maritime archeologists.
> 
> Farther north, China's announcement of its air defense zone drew expressions of concern from Japan, South Korea and Australia, all U.S. treaty partners.
> 
> The zone is seen largely as a means of strengthening China's claim to tiny uninhabited East China Sea islands administered by Japan and also claimed by Taiwan. For more than a year, Chinese patrol vessels have aggressively confronted Japanese ships in the area, leading to fears of a clash.
> 
> However, Xi is under far less nationalist pressure at home to take a hard line on South China Sea issues, said Cheng, the China politics expert.
> 
> Despite the new fishing rules, Beijing will likely seek to avoid increasing frictions by enforcing them too zealously, Cheng said.
> 
> "Beijing wants relations with Southeast Asia to be relatively smooth," he said. "They can't afford to alienate too many neighbors at one time."
> 
> Beijing Shows Resolve in South China Sea Claims - ABC News



4 time posted.


----------



## beijingwalker

*Beijing shows resolve in South China Sea claims*
January 9, 2014 9:19am



> BEIJING — In a broadening campaign to enforce its territorial claims, China says it's beefing up its police powers in the disputed South China Sea and requiring foreign fishermen to ask Beijing's permission to operate within most of the vast, strategic waterway.
> 
> The move, which took effect this month, comes on the heels of the late November announcement of a new air defense zone requiring foreign planes to notify Beijing of flights over a huge swath of the East China Sea, where China is locked in a bitter territorial dispute with Japan.
> 
> The steps are prompting concerns that President Xi Jinping's push to assert China's role as a regional power could spark a confrontation with neighbors.
> 
> "These sort of assertions of sovereignty, or territorial claims, will continue. Xi believes he can't afford to be seen as soft," said City University of Hong Kong China politics expert Joseph Cheng.
> 
> The affected waters account for two million of the South China Sea's 3.5 million square kilometers (1.35 million square miles), a sweeping area encompassing island groups claimed by Vietnam, the Philippines and others — and in some cases occupied by their armed forces. The islands sit amid the world's busiest commercial sea lanes, along with rich fishing grounds and potential oil and gas deposits.
> 
> On Wednesday, Department of Foreign Affairs spokesman Raul Hernandez said the country's diplomats were seeking more information on the new South China Sea rules. There was no immediate response from Vietnam.
> 
> The United States says it doesn't take sides in the sovereignty dispute but insists on the right to freedom of navigation in the area.
> 
> The new rules demand that foreign vessels seek permission to fish or survey within waters administered by Hainan, China's southernmost island province, which looks out over the South China Sea.
> 
> Authorities in the provincial city of Sansha, on an island far south of Hainan, held a joint drill Jan. 1 involving 14 ships and 190 personnel from various border patrol and law enforcement agencies.
> 
> "Rampant infringement by foreign fishing vessels" was among the activities targeted in the practice scenarios, law enforcement official Wang Shizhen was quoted as saying by the official China News Service.
> 
> Passed by Hainan's provincial legislature in late November, the new rules say only that permission must be obtained from unnamed "relevant departments" under China's Cabinet. Chinese law allows for the confiscation of catches and fishing equipment and fines of up to 500,000 yuan ($83,000) for violators.
> 
> While it would be nearly impossible to enforce the rule over such a vast area, the requirement seems to emphasize China's determination to compel foreign nations to take its sovereignty claims seriously.
> 
> Beijing has moved systematically to put teeth behind its island claims, setting up the Sansha city administration in 2012 to administer the scattered, lightly populated region of island groups and reefs.
> 
> China has also combined its civilian maritime agencies into a single coast guard to increase effectiveness, and even has cracked down on activity in the area by foreign maritime archeologists.
> 
> Farther north, China's announcement of its air defense zone drew expressions of concern from Japan, South Korea and Australia, all U. treaty partners.
> 
> The zone is seen largely as a means of strengthening China's claim to tiny uninhabited East China Sea islands administered by Japan and also claimed by Taiwan. For more than a year, Chinese patrol vessels have aggressively confronted Japanese ships in the area, leading to fears of a clash.
> 
> However, Xi is under far less nationalist pressure at home to take a hard line on South China Sea issues, said Cheng, the China politics expert.
> 
> Despite the new fishing rules, Beijing will likely seek to avoid increasing frictions by enforcing them too zealously, Cheng said.
> 
> "Beijing wants relations with Southeast Asia to be relatively smooth," he said. "They can't afford to alienate too many neighbors at one time." *- AP*

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## beijingwalker




----------



## beijingwalker




----------



## Maxtini

What's missing is~ what are the coordinates? This is nothing but an attempt to harrass southeast asian vessels~
Without a clear and definitive boundaries, how will the regulation be enforced? It will most likely end up being bullying weaker southeast asian vessels just like what happen in Natuna Sea last year. With this uncertain boundaries The Chinese could harrass foreign vessel in name of law enforcement and gradually enchroacing other countries territories.

Espcially at Natuna Sea, the Chinese cleverly leaves out any definitive dash there. A lot of chinese vessels have been spotted near natuna islands, only several vessels are detained by Indonesian as Chinese maritime vessels No. 311 step in and threatend to shoot inferior Indonesian boats despite it is clearly within Indonesian declared EEZ (by precisely coordinated bilateral agreement with Vietnam and Malaysia).



> 日本媒体报道，印度尼西亚海军军舰在该国纳土纳岛西北57海里的海域要求中国船只离开这一区域，对此，*中国的大型渔政船311号向印尼军舰发出警告：如果不释放扣押的中国渔船，我们将发动攻击。*中国渔政将机枪对准了印尼军舰，印尼军舰也进入了应战状态。究其原因，是前一天10多艘中国渔船到该海域作业捕鱼，遭印尼扣押其中一艘渔船。



The red dot is where Chinese vessels enchroaching Indonesian water with the help of China Maritime Surveillance Vessels 53 nm from Natuna Island.


----------



## BoQ77

Fisherboat not allowed but allow the combatant ships ... is it what you means Mr. Xi ???

You know well that USA have no fishboat in the region ... hahaha

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## shuttler

BoQ77 said:


> Fisherboat not allowed but allow the combatant ships ... is it what you means Mr. Xi ???
> 
> You know well that USA have no fishboat in the region ... hahaha



Do you need someone to help you comprehend what was going on here?
US and Chinese warships nearly collide amid tensions over airspace | World news | theguardian.com

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## BoQ77

Shutter, I heard that "Hey USA, don't hurt our only aircraft carrier pls !!!" ... Say louder, louder "we still heard no statement on your territorial water region in the nearly collission incident"
But
What can you do with 2 of B52 enter your nine-dashed line on air ? ( I mean ADIZ )

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## shuttler

BoQ77 said:


> Shutter, I heard that "Hey USA, don't hurt our only aircraft carrier pls !!!" ... Say louder, louder "we still heard no of statement on your territorial water region in the incident"
> But
> What can you do with 2 of B52 enter your nine-dashed line on air ? ( I mean ADIZ )



why this troll fails to understand the B52 was at the fringe of the ADIZ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

I read that Chinese cannot identify the B52 when they enter the ADIZ ... so how they know which is fringe or not 
if they not enter ADIZ, what is the f...cking reason for US to order those sorties ?

We read Japanese aircraft always hunt any Chinese aircrafts coming to nearby Senkaku island ( that inside China's ADIZ ) 
and Chinese aircrafts always run ..

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## beijingwalker

China's faster-than-expected military buildup | Pakistan Defence


----------



## shuttler

BoQ77 said:


> I read that Chinese cannot identify the B52 when they enter the ADIZ ... so how they know which is fringe or not if they not enter ADIZ, what is the f...cking reason for US to order those sorties ?



How many times have you heard of any US airplanes flying into our declared ADIZ again after the B52 touching the fringe?



> We read Japanese aircraft always hunt any Chinese aircrafts coming to nearby Senkaku island ( that inside China's ADIZ )
> and Chinese aircrafts always run ..



It is our patrol ships which are in routine operations there ordering the Japanese to GTFO!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

I guess that is a fake news unless the OP Beijingwalker can post from Chinese state media. this is what I found on xinhua:
China, Vietnam launch consultations on sea-related joint development - Xinhua | English.news.cn

I don´t believe that China is keen on a confrontation with VN right now.


----------



## Viva_Viet

beijingwalker said:


> *Beijing shows resolve in South China Sea claims
> ...........
> Despite the new fishing rules, Beijing will likely seek to avoid increasing frictions by enforcing them too zealously, Cheng said.
> 
> "Beijing wants relations with Southeast Asia to be relatively smooth," he said. "They can't afford to alienate too many neighbors at one time." - AP*


Seem like China will do Nothing but barking loundly again just to make themselves happy in few cheap days

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## shuttler

Viva_Viet said:


> Seem like China will do Nothing but barking loundly again just to make themselves happy in few cheap days



its trolls like you who are barking and making cheap shots like indians



> Air companies from* Vietnam*, Thailand and Malaysia, say they will comply with China’s new rules, agreeing to submit their flight plans before flying across China’s Air Defense Identification Zone over the East China Sea
> Airlines from 3 more countries comply with China´s ADIZ rules CCTV News - CNTV English

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## armchairPrivate

The Pinoys is learning its lesson and starting to toe the line.

Manila seeks clarification on Chinese fishing rules in South China Sea - Yahoo News

*Manila seeks clarification on Chinese fishing rules in South China Sea*


 
By Manuel Mogato and Sui-Lee Wee7 hours ago





.Chinese naval soldiers stand guard on China's first aircraft carrier Liaoning, as it travels towards …
By Manuel Mogato and Sui-Lee Wee

*Related Stories*

China says carrier tests in South China Sea going well Reuters
Japan aims to register 280 remote islands as national assets Reuters
[video] A Struggle For Influence in Asia MarketWatch
2013: In Asia, growing rivalry between Japan and China Christian Science Monitor
MANILA/BEIJING (Reuters) - The Philippines said it was seeking clarification of rules from China's Hainan province that say fishing boats need permission to enter waters under its jurisdiction, which the local government says covers much of the disputed South China Sea.

Such a move, if broadly enforced, could worsen tensions in the region. Beijing claims almost the entire oil- and gas-rich South China Sea, rejecting rival claims to parts of it from the Philippines, Taiwan, Malaysia, Brunei and Vietnam.

The fishing rules follow China's creation of a controversial air defense identification zone in late November above the East China Sea in an area that includes islands at the heart of a bitter territorial row with Japan.

Hainan's legislature approved the rules in November and they took effect on January 1, according to the website of the local government.

It says foreign fishing vessels need approval to enter from the "relevant and responsible department" of the Chinese government's cabinet.

Philippine Foreign Affairs Department spokesman Raul Hernandez said Manila had asked its embassy in Beijing to get more information on the rules.

Hainan, which juts into the South China Sea from the country's southern tip, says it governs 2 million square kilometers of water, according to local government data issued in 2011. The South China Sea is an estimated 3.5 million square km in size.

The Hainan rules do not outline penalties, but the requirements are similar to a 2004 national law, which says boats entering Chinese territory without permission can have their catch and fishing equipment seized and face fines of up to 500,000 yuan ($82,600).

Hainan officials were not immediately available to comment but Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying said regulating the use of China's marine resources was a normal practice.

"The goal is to strengthen the security of fisheries resources and to openly and reasonably utilize and protect fisheries resources," Hua said at a regular news briefing when asked about the rules.

CHINA'S TIES WITH MANILA STRAINED

A senior Philippine naval official said the rules were a violation of the U.N. Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), adding China was unable to enforce such measures outside its territorial waters and its 200-mile exclusive economic zone (EEZ).

"This is excessive ... I don't know how this will be implemented but it will be effective only within the 200-mile (EEZ) from Hainan province," said the officer, who declined to be identified because of the sensitivity of the issue.

Peter Paul Galvez, a Philippine defense department spokesman, said authorities were ready to enforce fishing rules in the Philippines own EEZ, which include regulations on the type of fish that can be caught.

Chinese enforcement could depend on the nationality of the fishermen, said Shi Yinhong, an international relations professor at Renmin University in Beijing.

"I think Hainan put it out to tell relevant countries we have such a regulation, but how we practice it depends on how bilateral relations are," Shi said.

"If ties are good, the regulation may be loose. If not, we will practice it strictly, which means that you have to get approval from us before entering."

China's ties with Manila have been especially frosty over the South China Sea.

Separately, Japan is set to clarify the ownership of 280 remote islands within its territorial waters and register them as national assets, a move that could rile China.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

beijingwalker said:


> China's faster-than-expected military buildup | Pakistan Defence


do you want to start WW III?


----------



## shuttler

Viet said:


> do you want to start WW III?



the same familiar overblowing comment from you again!


----------



## Viva_Viet

shuttler said:


> its trolls like you who are barking and making cheap shots like indians
> 
> Air companies from* Vietnam*, Thailand and Malaysia, say they will comply with China’s new rules, agreeing to submit their flight plans before flying across China’s Air Defense Identification Zone over the East China Sea
> Airlines from 3 more countries comply with China´s ADIZ rules CCTV News - CNTV English


And its just ADIZ, nothing more, not China’s Air Defense Zone, do u know the different between ADIZ and ADZ ??


----------



## Viet

shuttler said:


> the same familiar overblowing comment from you again!


no, because no major powers will allow you to control the Sea lane.


----------



## shuttler

Viva_Viet said:


> And its just ADIZ, nothing more, not China’s Air Defense Zone, do u know the different between ADIZ and ADZ ??



That is what we want at this stage and vietnamese and the yankies are complying got it indian?



Viet said:


> no, because no major powers will allow you to control the Sea lane.



freedom of navigation is not restricted
your country has duly complied


----------



## Viet

shuttler said:


> *freedom of navigation is not restricted*
> your country has duly complied


also VN can give this promise to Chinese and other nations.


----------



## shuttler

Viet said:


> also VN can give this promise to Chinese and other nations.



we are not concerned about what promises or to whom you have given as long as you have complied with our requirement for our ADIZ


----------



## Viet

shuttler said:


> we are not concerned about what promises or to whom you have given as long as you have complied with our requirement for our *ADIZ*


*ADIZ where?*
as you know VN airliners follow Chinese ADIZ in the East China Sea.


----------



## shuttler

Viet said:


> *ADIZ where?*
> as you know VN airliners follow Chinese ADIZ in the East China Sea.



dont appear more boring than you already are.
read the above news that I've quoted above you (post #13)!


----------



## Viet

shuttler said:


> dont appear more boring than you already are.
> read the above news that I've quoted above you (post #13)!


East China Sea is not our interest, but South China Sea.

VN claims 75% from the SCS too. But unlike in the case of China, nobody critizes our claim. Don´t you find it interesting? That means the major powers in the region America, Japan, Russia and India support Vietnamese claim. At present, VN controls most of the islands, hence the sea lain. Wake up!

If you want to take the sea from us, you will need to start a war not only against VN, but the other 4 powers, too: America, Japan, Russia and India.

Vietnam EEZ waters
EEZ Waters Of Viet Nam

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## shuttler

Viet said:


> East China Sea is not our interest, but South China Sea.
> 
> VN claims 75% from the SCS too. But unlike in the case of China, nobody critizes our claim. Don´t you find it interesting? That means the major powers in the region America, Japan, Russia and India support Vietnamese claim. At present, VN controls most of the islands, hence the sea lain. Wake up!
> 
> If you want to take the sea from us, you will need to start a war not only against VN, but the other 4 powers, too: America, Japan, Russia and India.
> 
> Vietnam EEZ waters
> EEZ Waters Of Viet Nam




You have all the options in the world not to comply with our ADIZ! The same applies for usa and s korea!

you can rest assured that we are going to take the SCS islands back
russia will lose a strategic ally if they have stupid moves
india cannot manage their own fleet well. even if they involve militarily, they are asking their own dooms alongside with your regime!
usa and japanese involvement are calculated
for you claiming 75% of the territory based on your capability is a joke
why should other countries give you a hand other than increasing the sale of weapons to you!


----------



## EastSea

shuttler said:


> You have all the options in the world not to comply with our ADIZ! The same applies for usa and s korea!
> 
> you can rest assured that we are going to take the SCS islands back
> russia will lose a strategic ally if they have stupid moves
> india cannot manage their own fleet well. even if they involve militarily, they are asking their own dooms alongside with your regime!
> usa and japanese involvement are calculated
> for you claiming 75% of the territory based on your capability is a joke
> why should other countries give you a hand other than increasing the sale of weapons to you!



Islands belong to us, not yours.


----------



## shuttler

EastSea said:


> Islands belong to us, not yours.


If you want to stay behind in one of the islands after we take them back then start learing Chinese now!


----------



## EastSea

shuttler said:


> If you want to stay behind in one of the islands after we take them back then start learing Chinese now!



You are punished when you start to attack us again, dirty thief. This dispute will go to forever. 

we learnt from long time Han Ji as well, how is that the the language of our enemy.


----------



## Fsjal

Why does America support Vietnam's claim. If Vietnam occupies SCS (which is impossible), then all the oils will be used to fix Vietnam's sh*tty infrastructures and their piece of sh*t army.


----------



## beijingwalker

US reiterated many times that it has no position on SCS and East Sea.it's a clear move to avoid confrontation with China. Russia is a friend.India is negligible,Japan is surrounded by many angry neighbors and stuck in territorial dispute with China,Russia,Taiwan(ROC),two Koreas..Vietnam is on their own taking on China.can't count on any other countries help.

Never count on US,remember in 1974 when China took over Paracels,? despite repeated plea for US help by S.Vietnam, US navy just stood by and watched Vietnamese navy burned and destroyed at a very close range.maybe they just like to see the fireworks.


----------



## Beast

This report is written by David.axe. some anti China war monger idiots. Please don't take.his report seriously.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Kyle Sun

Beast said:


> This report is written by David.axe. some anti China war monger idiots. Please don't take.his report seriously.



Who is David .axe, in Chinese plz.


----------



## BoQ77

I heard that many Chinese researchers think it's so funny to draw the nine dashed line close to other nations' coast without any coordinate ...
and call that's undisputed territory of China ....

Even Chinese smart people know it's not true and keep stating that foolish make it's difficult to discuss furthermore with other nations... 
I wonder who is the fool guys actually believe in propaganda posters of China govt.


----------



## Viva_Viet

shuttler said:


> That is what we want at this stage and vietnamese and the yankies are complying got it indian?


If u want some cheap bones from us, then u have it now


----------



## cirr

China has proposed to take 10 years and spend tens of billions of yuan to construct the following：







The whole project（20km square meter）is divided into 3 phases，with phase I starting shortly。

When completed，the much expanded Jingqing Island in Xisha Islands（Paracel Islands）will host an airport，several ports and other facilities which will enable China to move her forward base some 400-500 km into the SCS。

The Island in question sits at the tip of the pie diagram below：






China has proposed to take 10 years and spend tens of billions of yuan to construct the following：






The whole project（20km square meter）is divided into 3 phases，with phase I starting shortly。

When completed，the much expanded Jingqing Island in Xisha Islands（Paracel Islands）will host an airport，several ports and other facilities which will enable China to move her forward base some 400-500 km into the SCS。

The Island in question sits at the tip of the pie diagram below：


----------



## shuttler

EastSea said:


> You are punished when you start to attack us again, dirty thief. This dispute will go to forever.
> we learnt from long time Han Ji as well, how is that the the language of our enemy.



you have a really foul mouth - one of the grand thieves calling theft!



Viva_Viet said:


> If u want some cheap bones from us, then u have it now


Bones for what? We hope the vietnamese can gradually withdraw from the area in peace!


----------



## Viva_Viet

shuttler said:


> Bones for what? We hope the vietnamese can gradually withdraw from the area in peace!


Bone for ur cheap ADIZ in East China sea. Ur hope never come true , when we get more support from Russia-US, then we will burn ur ships in SCS(east sea) like what Russia do with ur ships


----------



## shuttler

Viva_Viet said:


> Bone for ur cheap ADIZ in East China sea. Ur hope never come true , when we get more support from Russia-US, then we will burn ur ships in SCS(east sea) like what Russia do with ur ships



you are extremely dull
why does the vietnamese government comply with our ADIZ requirements?
I have said why the us and russians' positions on you. again you are a very good choice for an indian citizenship. your mentalities are in perfect sync!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

shuttler said:


> You have all the options in the world not to comply with our ADIZ! The same applies for usa and s korea!


you can fight with the japanese over the control of East China Sea. As I said, VN is more interested in South China Sea and Gulf of Thailand, later the Indian Ocean. As for VN, your ADIZ is just a small price to pay. By the way VN airliners follow overlapping Japanese ADIZ, too.


shuttler said:


> you can rest assured that we are going to take the SCS islands back


good luck for you. at the moment, Chinese leadership is more interested in more good relationship with Vietnam.


shuttler said:


> russia will lose a strategic ally if they have stupid moves


have you observed the latest visit from Putin in Vietnam? if so, you would not have said that. should it come to a confrontation with China, I am sure, Russia will back Vietnam.


shuttler said:


> india cannot manage their own fleet well. even if they involve militarily, they are asking their own dooms alongside with your regime!


do you want to bet?


shuttler said:


> usa and japanese involvement are calculated


ha ha ha...


shuttler said:


> for you claiming 75% of the territory based on your capability is a joke
> why should other countries give you a hand other than increasing the sale of weapons to you!


not a joke, but reality. even the germans don´t critize Vietnamese claim. only Chinese.


----------



## shuttler

Viet said:


> you can fight with the japanese over the control of East China Sea. As I said, VN is more interested in South China Sea and Gulf of Thailand, later the Indian Ocean. As for VN, your ADIZ is just a small price to pay. By the way VN airliners follow overlapping Japanese ADIZ, too.



the point is vietnam has served their compliance despite all the bad mouthing vietnamese trolls on the contrary



> good luck for you. at the moment, Chinese leadership is more interested in more good relationship with Vietnam.


then the earlier your backing off the better if you want that to sustain



> have you observed the latest visit from Putin in Vietnam? if so, you would not have said that. should it come to a confrontation with China, I am sure, Russia will back Vietnam.



they also back us too! What is more important to the Russians? Learn some geopolitics!



> do you want to bet?


you are not in the entertaining business arent you? I am glad you depend so much on the indians. For us that is a perfect combination for total annihiliation saving our time money and efforts



> ha ha ha...
> not a joke, but reality. even the germans don´t critize Vietnamese claim. only Chinese.


the germans and the lot are on the same camp. why do we expect any surprise from them other than media bullshits! they dont want their auto industries to shrink and be taken up by other brands


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> not a joke, but reality. even the germans don´t critize Vietnamese claim. only Chinese.


 
Volkswagen enjoyed 1/3 of their global sales from China alone in last year.

Do you think who is more important to Germany?


----------



## Viet

cirr said:


> China has proposed to take *10 years and spend tens of billions of yuan* to construct the following：
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The whole project（20km square meter）is divided into 3 phases，with phase I starting shortly。
> 
> When completed，the much expanded Jingqing Island in Xisha Islands（Paracel Islands）will host an airport，several ports and other facilities which will enable China to move her forward base some 400-500 km into the SCS。
> 
> The Island in question sits at the tip of the pie diagram below：


ha ha ha...and the next typhoon will swallow all of this. by the way, we have a new toy: a mini sub which will be deployed to observe other nations naval activities. Pls don´t laugh, it is just a beginning. VN is learning.

- 8.8 meters long and 3 meters wide
- displacement of 12 tonnes
- equipped with air independent propulsion (AIP) and other modern naval equipments
- operating radius of 800km, can dive to a depth of 50 meters and stay on the sea bed


----------



## Kyle Sun

Viet said:


> ha ha ha...and the next typhoon will swallow all of this. by the way, we have a new toy: a mini sub which will be deployed to observe other nations naval activities. Pls don´t laugh, it is just a beginning. VN is learning.
> 
> - 8.8 meters long and 3 meters wide
> - displacement of 12 tonnes
> - equipped with air independent propulsion (AIP)
> - operating radius of 800km, can dive to a depth of 50 meters and stay on the sea bed





Incredible!!!

Such a small Sub has AIP and 800KM radius !!

What kind of weapon and monitor instrument does it has ?

And how many crew ? Speed ?


----------



## beijingwalker

That's really a homemade toy,looks at least 100 years old,so pathetic,all retired Chinese subs（scrap metal now) are way advanced than this one.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

that sub was made by private workshop only.
but he's an ambitious guy who assemble his self made AIP to the sub ...

could consider it as prototype for surveillance mini sub ...

btw Vietnamese has some experiences with 2 mini-sub from North Korea ...since 1997
Their interest in sub now similar to Chinese interests in Liaoning


----------



## beijingwalker

VN should check this out. that's our minisub, and get some idea of what a 21st century sub should be like. This one can explore the deepest sea floor.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cirr

CCG 3401 formally commissioned into the SCS Squadron today 10.01.2014：






 中国4000吨级海警船正式入列海监南海总队(图)|海警|中国|海监_新浪军事


----------



## cirr

A new force in the SCS：






The 4500-tonne CCG 3401 formally inducted today 10.01.2014. 

中国4000吨级海警3401船入列海监南海总队(图)-中新网


----------



## Viva_Viet

shuttler said:


> you are extremely dull
> why does the vietnamese government comply with our ADIZ requirements?
> I have said why the us and russians' positions on you. again you are a very good choice for an indian citizenship. your mentalities are in perfect sync!


Bcz we dont want our commercial planes to have any problem when flying through the conflict zone between China-Japan, thats all.

Ur ADIZ means Nothing, Korea-Japan jet figher still patrol there, and u dare not stop them, nothing happen.



shuttler said:


> they also back us too! What is more important to the Russians? Learn some geopolitics!


Its u who have to learn geopolitics . Do u know why Soviet union supported VN to conquer Laos-Camb and even Thailand in 1979 ?? bez if we can unify the sub-Mekong region, then we can help Soviet to become greater and more powerful. Mr Putin also have the same idea with Soviet's plan in South east asian , thats why he support VN against China now, and he will send more support to help VN to unify sub-Mekong region in the future.

When VN can unify that region, then China will be pegged between 2 Giants Russia-Sub Mekong region, ur future is so doom, dude


----------



## Zero_wing

Because those countries have military muscles majority of the nations here in ASEAN are incapable as of yet to confront china but they way the chincoms are going soon the region will just be too sick and tried of their Juvenal actions and put them their place


----------



## Zero_wing

Maxtini said:


> What's missing is~ what are the coordinates? This is nothing but an attempt to harrass southeast asian vessels~
> Without a clear and definitive boundaries, how will the regulation be enforced? It will most likely end up being bullying weaker southeast asian vessels just like what happen in Natuna Sea last year. With this uncertain boundaries The Chinese could harrass foreign vessel in name of law enforcement and gradually enchroacing other countries territories.
> 
> Espcially at Natuna Sea, the Chinese cleverly leaves out any definitive dash there. A lot of chinese vessels have been spotted near natuna islands, only several vessels are detained by Indonesian as Chinese maritime vessels No. 311 step in and threatend to shoot inferior Indonesian boats despite it is clearly within Indonesian declared EEZ (by precisely coordinated bilateral agreement with Vietnam and Malaysia).
> 
> 
> 
> The red dot is where Chinese vessels enchroaching Indonesian water with the help of China Maritime Surveillance Vessels 53 nm from Natuna Island.




Because for the chinese d bags they simply do not care as long as they can claim it


----------



## Fsjal

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA 

Makes North Korean subs look advance.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## beijingwalker

scrap metal at the best

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## faithfulguy

Viet said:


> ha ha ha...and the next typhoon will swallow all of this. by the way, we have a new toy: a mini sub which will be deployed to observe other nations naval activities. Pls don´t laugh, it is just a beginning. VN is learning.
> 
> - 8.8 meters long and 3 meters wide
> - displacement of 12 tonnes
> - equipped with air independent propulsion (AIP) and other modern naval equipments
> - operating radius of 800km, can dive to a depth of 50 meters and stay on the sea bed



Is this a university project? A senior project?


----------



## shuttler

Viva_Viet said:


> Bcz we dont want our commercial planes to have any problem when flying through the conflict zone between China-Japan, thats all.
> 
> Ur ADIZ means Nothing, Korea-Japan jet figher still patrol there, and u dare not stop them, nothing happen.


what a swift change of you attitude
if you have a spine refuse the compliance then
and even more send a military plane into our ASIZ to test us if you dare!



> Its u who have to learn geopolitics . Do u know why Soviet union supported VN to conquer Laos-Camb and even Thailand in 1979 ?? bez if we can unify the sub-Mekong region, then we can help Soviet to become greater and more powerful. Mr Putin also have the same idea with Soviet's plan in South east asian , thats why he support VN against China now, and he will send more support to help VN to unify sub-Mekong region in the future.
> 
> When VN can unify that region, then China will be pegged between 2 Giants Russia-Sub Mekong region, ur future is so doom, dude



there is no soviet union on the map do you realise this? what geo-politics are you talking about? when Putin paid you a visit and you think you are their buddies and expect Russians will send their troops for your rescue? you better ask the indians to do that because the Russian are never as naive and when you are doomed, you have great company - the indio-vietcong allies to go down with you!


----------



## Kurama

BEIJING—Enforcement of China’s new regulation requiring foreign fishermen to obtain Beijing’s consent before operating in the disputed South China Sea will focus on waters close to China that are also claimed by Vietnam, an official said, potentially setting China on a collision course with Hanoi.

The regulation, which was enacted by China’s island province of Hainan on Jan. 1, is the latest effort by Beijing to bolster territorial claims and is adding to tensions over contested islets, freedom of navigation and rights to fisheries and other resources in a sea vital to world trade. The Philippines and Vietnam this week criticized the measure, as has the U.S. State Department which called it “provocative and potentially dangerous.”

In recent months, China has stepped up muscle-flexing over its territorial claims, declaring an air-control zone over the East China Sea that aggravated a dispute with Japan and challenged a fledgling thaw with South Korea. The latest moves in the South China Sea increases prospects for further standoffs with its southern neighbors.

Wu Shicun, a delegate to Hainan’s legislature and former head of the province’s foreign-affairs office, said in an interview Friday that the measure in principle applied to China’s entire territorial claim in the South China Sea, which extends to near the coasts of the Philippines and Malaysia.

In practice, however, Mr. Wu said that Chinese enforcement would focus on policing the waters near the Paracel Islands, just south of Hainan, and not farther away. Mr. Wu said punishments—including fines and seizing catches—would be strengthened against fishermen who entered the area without permission. He said Vietnam has been encouraging its fishermen to enter the area.

“The goal is to make them not dare to come back,” said Mr. Wu, who is also president of the National Institute for South China Sea Studies. “If you violate the rules, you will pay a high price.” He said the U.S. had grown too worked up about the new measure, which he said was aimed at better regulating the fishing industry.

China has exercised de facto control of the Paracels after ousting Vietnam in a naval battle in 1974 and has since built up a sizable government and military presence.

Hanoi hasn’t relinquished its claim. Luong Thanh Nghi, spokesman for Vietnam’s Foreign Ministry, reiterated Friday that Vietnam had “indisputable sovereignty” over the Paracels and Spratlys, another island group further to the south, claimed in part or full also by China, the Philippines and others. “Any foreign activities not approved by Vietnam in this area are illegal and invalid,” he said, in response to a media query.

Other South China Sea claimants include Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan. Verbal sparring and outright confrontations have been on the rise in recent years as a more powerful China asserts claims it has long made on paper and as other countries resist. In March, Vietnam accused China of firing upon a Vietnamese fishing boat operating near the Paracels. China’s Defense Ministry later said Chinese sailors fired two flares as a warning and had not attacked the Vietnamese.

On Friday, the Philippines Department of Foreign Affairs said it was “gravely concerned” by the new regulation. “This development escalates tensions, unnecessarily complicates the situation in the South China Sea, and threatens the peace and stability of the region,” the statement read.

Existing Chinese law requires foreign fishing vessels to obtain permission from China’s central government before operating in its territorial waters; the new Hainan regulation deals more directly with disputed South China Sea waters.

Further south from the Paracels, the waters around the disputed Spratly Islands, off the Philippine island of Palawan, offer rich fishing grounds. Disputed sections of the South China Sea may also be rich in energy reserves, including oil and gas. Mr. Wu said Filipino fishermen operating near the Spratlys wouldn’t be affected by the new measure.

Mr. Wu said the priority for enforcement is China’s territorial waters—the area that under the U.N. Convention on the Law of the Sea extends up to 12 nautical miles from what is known as a country’s “baseline,” the low-water line along a coast from which countries measure territorial waters.

“The regulation only applies to territorial waters for which we have announced baselines, and those waters which we are practically able to control,” he said.

The U.S. has long said it doesn’t take sides in the territorial dispute, but that it supports any measures conducive to maintaining freedom of navigation. Mr. Wu said the new regulation posed no threat to freedom of navigation in the area.

Asked about the State Department’s criticism of the new regulation, a spokeswoman for China’s Foreign Ministry said Friday that China had the right to manage resources in its sovereign territory.

–Yang Jie in Beijing and Vu Trong Khanh in Hanoi contributed to this article.
China Sea Rules to Raise Tensions With Vietnam - Wall Street Journal - WSJ.com

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## shuttler

Viet said:


> ha ha ha...and the next typhoon will swallow all of this. by the way, we have a new toy: a mini sub which will be deployed to observe other nations naval activities. Pls don´t laugh, it is just a beginning. VN is learning.
> 
> - 8.8 meters long and 3 meters wide
> - displacement of 12 tonnes
> - equipped with air independent propulsion (AIP) and other modern naval equipments
> - operating radius of 800km, can dive to a depth of 50 meters and stay on the sea bed



looks good.
Our folks 牛人 have a great competitor from VN!
Check these out

安徽牛人自制潜艇 -频道：新闻播吧-在线观看-PPS爱频道
Owner and inventor： Mr Zhang Junlin
Name of submarine: Shenlong 2
Max depth: 10M
Cost: ￥4~500K
Dimensions (LxWxH) meters: 15x 2x 2.8
Speed: 15 km/hour
Air conditioned and wireless internet equipped

Another one here:

























Mr 高广学 Gao Guangxue











该艘自制潜艇艇长*Length 6.38 M *米，宽 *width 0.8 M*米，高 *height 1.2M *米，能同时容纳五个人乘坐 *5 seaters*，“一个人是驾驶员，其余四个人是乘客”。图为高广学驾驶潜艇在海面上急转弯。在试航中，潜艇完成了高速行驶、急转弯等多个动作，并多次下潜至 *submerging depth in meters = 3*米的设计最高水深。

Also this one:

牛人故事之农民达芬奇陶相礼三 终极版山寨潜水艇试潜成全程—在线播放—《牛人故事 2010》—综艺—优酷网，视频高清在线观看
+ this vid of the same model:
盘点农民自制山寨飞机赛车潜水艇 13—在线播放—《民间牛人》—资讯—优酷网，视频高清在线观看


----------



## elis

I love how all the little asian countries fight for the JEW USA's interests, just like their Al Qaeda little whores do.

I mean do you seriously believe that you gonna win something against China? Only JEW USA win something at the end as always

JEW USA will arm vietnamese or tibetans to parasite the chinese cities and attract chinese to fight for freedom, like they do in Syria

China must arm the mexican gangs to counter this option, otherwise it will be too late


----------



## Viet

faithfulguy said:


> Is this a university project? A senior project?


no, it is developed by a private company in Vietnam: Quoc Hoa Mechanical Company.



Kyle Sun said:


> Incredible!!!
> 
> Such a small Sub has AIP and 800KM radius !!
> 
> What kind of weapon and monitor instrument does it has ?
> 
> And how many crew ? Speed ?


I don´t have more details. But the mini sub has successfully passed several technical safety tests. It should be used for surveillance. Carrying no weapons. Will be launched soon.



cirr said:


> A new force in the SCS：
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The 4500-tonne CCG 3401 formally inducted today 10.01.2014.
> 
> 中国4000吨级海警3401船入列海监南海总队(图)-中新网


and this is the real 4,000 tons attack sub, equipped with six 533-millimeter torpedo tubes and 3M54 (or 3M-54 Klub) cruise missiles, speeds of 20 knots, dive to 300 meters, and hold 52 crew members.


----------



## Mr Second

BoQ77 said:


> I think that's why China tank ship intercept the USS Cowpens !!!
> Their reason should be "US combatant ship enters the water region inside nine-dashed-line"


No, this affair had no relation with the Line, but the US warship was getting close the Chinese aircraft's defend area. As the news said, the Aircraft which has 3 defend lines was taking a military training at that moment, and when the US warship entered the outside line, a Chinese frigate had released the waring, but seemed nothing happened, therefore, to prevent the US ship coming in the last defend line, a tank ship rushed out and stopped at a distance only 500 meter away in front of the US warship. In the end, the US captain called the captain of Chinese aircraft and after two captains had made clear the intention of each other, the US warship left the area.


----------



## Viva_Viet

Mr Second said:


> No, this affair had no relation with the Line, but the US warship was getting close the Chinese aircraft's defend area. As the news said, the Aircraft which has 3 defend lines was taking a military training at that moment, and when the US warship entered the outside line, a Chinese frigate had released the waring, but seemed nothing happened, therefore, to prevent the US ship coming in the last defend line, a tank ship rushed out and stopped at a distance only 500 meter away in front of the US warship. In the end, the US captain called the captain of Chinese aircraft and after two captains had made clear the intention of each other, the US warship left the area.


I thought u were the most reasonable Chinese here, but seem like u r as paranoid as the rest. Ur so called "Defend line" completely violate the international water. just like u come to my house and say:"Ive just drawn a defend line, and ur yard is inside , I will hit u if u stand on that yard !". Its so impudent, dude


> *Chinese Naval Vessel Tries to Force U.S. Warship to Stop in International Waters*
> Landing ship sailed dangerously close to U.S. guided missile cruiser
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The USS Cowpens / AP
> 
> 
> BY: Bill Gertz
> December 13, 2013 5:00 am
> 
> A Chinese naval vessel tried to force a U.S. guided missile warship to stop in international waters recently, causing a tense military standoff in the latest case of Chinese maritime harassment, according to defense officials.
> Chinese Naval Vessel Tries to Force U.S. Warship to Stop in International Waters | Washington Free Beacon


----------



## Viva_Viet

> “The goal is to make them not dare to come back,” said Mr. Wu, who is also president of the National Institute for South China Sea Studies. “If you violate the rules, you will pay a high price.” He said the U.S. had grown too worked up about the new measure, which he said was aimed at better regulating the fishing industry.


China cant make its own " jungle rules" . When US show more clear sign in supporting VN against China, then we will even send warship-Kilos to challenge those barbarian.

SCS(east sea) is not a jungle for barbarian to impose its stupid 'jungle laws'


----------



## BoQ77

Mr Second said:


> No, this affair had no relation with the Line, but the US warship was getting close the Chinese aircraft's defend area. As the news said, the Aircraft which has 3 defend lines was taking a military training at that moment, and when the US warship entered the outside line, a Chinese frigate had released the waring, but seemed nothing happened, therefore, to prevent the US ship coming in the last defend line, a tank ship rushed out and stopped at a distance only 500 meter away in front of the US warship. In the end, the US captain called the captain of Chinese aircraft and after two captains had made clear the intention of each other, the US warship left the area.



Agreed with your comment in another posting, Chinese seem to be quite different from other thought.
But China govt. know well that they could concrete their position as a Big Four only if they follow the international rule.

As you said, and information I get, They requested no other combatant ship could come as close as 40kms from their Liaoning? Or When Liaoning moving, there's always a 80kms bandwidth that is protection area of it ? no matter where it operate ?

That's the distance between USS Cowpen vs Liaoning.


----------



## Viva_Viet

shuttler said:


> what a swift change of you attitude
> if you have a spine refuse the compliance then
> and even more send a military plane into our ASIZ to test us if you dare!


I never said any word in any topic related to ur cheap ADIZ bcz its too cheap to discuss abt.


> there is no soviet union on the map do you realise this? what geo-politics are you talking about? when Putin paid you a visit and you think you are their buddies and expect Russians will send their troops for your rescue? you better ask the indians to do that because the Russian are never as naive and when you are doomed, you have great company - the indio-vietcong allies to go down with you!


Russia support VN in SCS(east sea) against China, do u know that ??


----------



## BoQ77

Is there any difference if there're some fishboat or commercial ships nearby Liaoning ?

Maybe the Chinese worries about the plan they made out, using fishboat with explosive to sink Zumwalt class destroyer 
could be applied back to them ... ??

With Club-K missile developed by Russian, their fear has reasonable ... but everyone could not always set a no approaching rule to others in the international water area


----------



## cirr

Viet said:


> no, it is developed by a private company in Vietnam: Quoc Hoa Mechanical Company.
> 
> 
> I don´t have more details. But the mini sub has successfully passed several technical safety tests. It should be used for surveillance. Carrying no weapons. Will be launched soon.
> 
> 
> and this is the real 4,000 tons attack sub, equipped with six 533-millimeter torpedo tubes and 3M54 (or 3M-54 Klub) cruise missiles, speeds of 20 knots, dive to 300 meters, and hold 52 crew members.



Stop being childish。






A corner of one of many PLAN sub bases。China has a sub fleet of over 60，and is building new subs at a rate of 4-5 a year。China has both nuclear attack subs and nuclear strategic subs。Vietnam？If China pleases，it can build 10 a year。Vietnam？You use your limied foreign reserves to buy a few outdated Russian junks over 10 years or more。

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viva_Viet

cirr said:


> Stop being childish。
> 
> View attachment 13302
> 
> 
> A corner of one of many PLAN sub bases。China has a sub fleet of over 60，and is building new subs at a rate of 4-5 a year。China has both nuclear attack subs and nuclear strategic subs。Vietnam？If China pleases，it can build 10 a year。Vietnam？You use your limied foreign reserves to buy a few outdated Russian junks over 10 years or more。


Then send ur cheap Sub to the disputed zone and test in real war. Dont just dock it at bay and blah balh....All kind of ur warship is nothing but junk, that's the truth


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

BoQ77 said:


> Is there any difference if there're some fishboat or commercial ships nearby Liaoning ?
> 
> Maybe the Chinese worries about the plan they made out, *using fishboat with explosive to sink Zumwalt class destroyer
> could be applied back to them ... ??*
> 
> With Club-K missile developed by Russian, their fear has reasonable ... but everyone could not always set a no approaching rule to others in the international water area



This is the war tactic in the mind of you Vietcong.


----------



## Mr Second

Viva_Viet said:


> I thought u were the most reasonable Chinese here, but seem like u r as paranoid as the rest. Ur so called "Defend line" completely violate the international water. just like u come to my house and say:"Ive just drawn a defend line, and ur yard is inside , I will hit u if u stand on that yard !". Its so impudent, dude


No, you misunderstand my mind. Not only Chinese Aircraft, but also all Aircrafts in the whole World, there must be some "Guard" with it, It has no relationship with the area is international or belonging to some specific country. Give you a example: A Vietnamese warship is sailing in the public area of SCS very usually, if a warship of other country getting very Close, so is the VN warship going to launch the warning even both are in the public sea area.



BoQ77 said:


> Agreed with your comment in another posting, Chinese seem to be quite different from other thought.
> But China govt. know well that they could concrete their position as a Big Four only if they follow the international rule.
> 
> As you said, and information I get, They requested no other combatant ship could come as close as 40kms from their Liaoning? Or When Liaoning moving, there's always a 80kms bandwidth that is protection area of it ? no matter where it operate ?
> 
> That's the distance between USS Cowpen vs Liaoning.


You VN friends are to sensitive, ok. First, this affair was just between China and USA, and second. I've told to another VN friend. I dont Think a VN warship will not launch a warning if another warship from other country is getting Close and without any respose in the radio. Same same.


----------



## Mr Second

Viva_Viet said:


> I thought u were the most reasonable Chinese here, but seem like u r as paranoid as the rest. Ur so called "Defend line" completely violate the international water. just like u come to my house and say:"Ive just drawn a defend line, and ur yard is inside , I will hit u if u stand on that yard !". Its so impudent, dude


Next time, dont say such stupid words ok! Check what you said just now! Just Think yourself Before you blame others! Ok, if VN navy can stand others planes or warships getting Close with out warning, I will say sorry to you,


----------



## Mr Second

BoQ77 said:


> Agreed with your comment in another posting, Chinese seem to be quite different from other thought.
> But China govt. know well that they could concrete their position as a Big Four only if they follow the international rule.
> 
> As you said, and information I get, They requested no other combatant ship could come as close as 40kms from their Liaoning? Or When Liaoning moving, there's always a 80kms bandwidth that is protection area of it ? no matter where it operate ?
> 
> That's the distance between USS Cowpen vs Liaoning.


Hey, you also said there is no different between Liaoning warship and fishing ship or commercial ship. Ok, we dont talk how modern the Liaoning is, but it is a warship in PLA navy, isnt it? Is there any country in the World who will allow an unknown warship getting Close within 40KM without releasing a warning even in the public sea? VN navy? Impossible! 40KM! How fast is modern missile? Dont begin such argue again ok? Dont forget I'm also a half VN.


----------



## Mr Second

Whatever you come from China or Vietnam, if you guys think blame or force Power can solve any problem, or log on the forum just want to say some insult Words here, so please continue. Everyone is able to talk offensive Words, but is everyone able to make the problem clear and solve it? Just coming back home and seeing such stupid argue again. I quit, you guys continue!


----------



## BoQ77

Mr Second said:


> Hey, you also said there is no different between Liaoning warship and fishing ship or commercial ship. Ok, we dont talk how modern the Liaoning is, but it is a warship in PLA navy, isnt it? Is there any country in the World who will allow an unknown warship getting Close within 40KM without releasing a warning even in the public sea? VN navy? Impossible! 40KM! How fast is modern missile? Dont begin such argue again ok? Dont forget I'm also a half VN.



You misunderstand my posting, I means Liaoning vs Cowpens or Liaoning group vs any commercial ship ... 40 km ?
Remember your Song-class submarine ever appeared midst of Kitti Hawk aircraft carrier group

Even the nearby Chinese EEZ still not Chinese territorial water zone ...
Does it still has free navigation to rule others in the international water area ?

When you come into international, you must accept the fact that others could approach you

The rule we should follow when enter the international water is how to avoid collision while free navigating ...
but what the Chinese made is different from others to threaten by a nearly unavoidable collision to make others postpone their free navigation ...


----------



## beijingwalker

Viva_Viet said:


> When US show more clear sign in supporting VN against China, then we will even send warship-Kilos to challenge those barbarian.



They supported you in 1974,didn't they..


----------



## beijingwalker

haha,no subs are cheaper than yours,the pic is so funny,you can claim the cheap "sub" title in the world.


----------



## Viva_Viet

beijingwalker said:


> They supported you in 1974,didn't they..


No,bcz China bowed down and begged for US's protection against Soviet's possible invasion ,so US became China's daddy from 1979 to 1988 instead.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## beijingwalker

Viva_Viet said:


> No,bcz China bowed down and begged for US's protection against Soviet's possible invasion ,so US became China's daddy from 1979 to 1988 instead.



Haha,that's so absurd,China and US didn't even have diplomatic relationships until 1979. and in 1974 China was still under Mao's rule.Mao fought US in Korea and Vietnam. US president had to come to Beijing to bow down to him ,not the other way around.China took over the Paracels in* 1974. *

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viva_Viet

Mr Second said:


> No, you misunderstand my mind. Not only Chinese Aircraft, but also all Aircrafts in the whole World, there must be some "Guard" with it, It has no relationship with the area is international or belonging to some specific country. Give you a example: A Vietnamese warship is sailing in the public area of SCS very usually, if a warship of other country getting very Close, so is the VN warship going to launch the warning even both are in the public sea area.
> 
> .


I dont think we can warn any ship when travelling in international water. In this case, China ship even try to collide US ship in international water ,too. Thats unacceptable ,mate


----------



## Mr Second

Viva_Viet said:


> I dont think we can warn any ship when travelling in international water. In this case, China ship even try to collide US ship in international water ,too. Thats unacceptable ,mate


Let's stop talking this topic ok, I dont know the detailed terms in the international law, so I dont know if there is a definition such "the warship sailing in sea is also a part of a country's territory" I dont know, so say sorry here if there isnt such defintion. but I'm sure if a warship of USA or Russia had came across such situation, they would do the same. If someone says that is so impolite, I can only say, I'm not navy, you are not navy either. What I said today is only to state what happened in that area, and I think USA navy is not idiot.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Viva_Viet said:


> I dont think we can warn any ship when travelling in international water. In this case, China ship even try to collide US ship in international water ,too. Thats unacceptable ,mate



Well, in your mind you are in fact afraid of China.

Stop acting like a tough guy in front of us. The power is demonstrated by the fist, not by running the mouth.


----------



## Mr Second

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Well, in your mind you are in fact afraid of China.
> 
> Stop acting like a tough guy in front of us. The power is demonstrated by the fist, not by running the mouth.


ok, Everything has stopped, dont talk that again. who cares others.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Mr Second said:


> ok, Everything has stopped, dont talk that again. who cares others.



Those Viet members like to embolden themselves by keep running their mouth.

So China will show them the reality that they are still a weak and small anonymous.


----------



## Mr Second

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Those Viet members like to embolden themselves by keep running their mouth.
> 
> So China will show them the reality that they are still a weak and small anonymous.


They have stopped now! Is it enough?


----------



## beijingwalker

Viva_Viet said:


> Russia support VN in SCS(east sea) against China, do u know that ??



Really,lol..what kind of support Russia offered you in Spratly in 1988?when Chinese navy sent dozens of Vietnamese sailors down to the bottom of the sea. You were supposed to be allies back then,weren't you?


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Mr Second said:


> They have stopped now! Is it enough?



Nah, they won't behave properly until the lesson was taught.

But those Vietcongs are cunning and always backs down when China demonstrated back with some aggressive gestures.

So with their cowardice and cunningness, it is unlikely to have a war between China and Vietnam. Those Vietcongs know that their craps won't last in a few days against China, while only those Viet fanboys either love to leave in their fantasy world or keep emboldening themselves to confront against their inner fear from China.


----------



## Mr Second

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Nah, they won't behave properly until the lesson was taught.
> 
> But those Vietcongs are cunning and always backs down when China demonstrated back with some aggressive gesture.
> 
> So with their cowardice and cunningness, it is unlikely to have a war between China and Vietnam. Those Vietcongs know that their craps won't last in a few days against China, while only those Viet fanboys either love to leave in their fantasy world or keep emboldening themselves to confront against their inner fear from China.


I've said before, if Everything in this World can tell the right or wrong, so this World will be very quite PEACE! But how can everyone still live together even if there is difference? I tell you I'm only 24 years old now, but all those people, blonde, asian or black, I've meet to much. People should know how to live in this World. Maybe you understand too Little about Vietnam, no problem, calm down ok, insulting in Vietnam helps nothing if you know how Vietnam people to insult. Just tell them the truth that they can Believe. They will listen to you.


----------



## Viva_Viet

beijingwalker said:


> Really,lol..what kind of support Russia offered you in Spratly in 1988?when Chinese navy sent dozens of Vietnamese sailors down to the bottom of the sea. You were supposed to be allies back then,weren't you?
> ]


in 1988, we were so busy to kill Chinese living in Laos-Camb-VN that time. In the return 11 Chinese troops were slaughtered mercilessly in 1990 .


> Army since January 1988, has troops stationed seven Spratly reefs. The seven reefs are mostly suitable flooded reef, reef exposed at low tide, low tide vast expanse of water. Dizhan large reefs around everywhere, so the army only a few small reefs on the distribution and strength of comparative stagnation was at a disadvantage. Early garrison, because the defense is not perfect facilities, personnel stationed in South Reef smoked an accident occurs.
> 
> N*ovember 7, 1990, I found the Southern Command Nansha reefs lost radio contact.After the situation was reported to the South China Sea Fleet deployed immediately went to see the ship. Under the notification, the reef is a unit of Marines stationed in the preparation of 12 people, then should be 11 people (one reason temporarily off the reef). Inspectors found that the bodies of six soldiers on the reef, and another five people missing.* Missing persons including reef Chang allegiance, vice reef long and correspondents. In addition to the personnel on the reef, the reef warrior Xu Huiping Yong Department reef due to the treatment of burns and survived. Inspectors found multiple bullet holes in the room, indicating where the fighting occurred. Then they picked up and from the underwater reef a few rifles, these guns are all our military garrison personnel standard rifle.
> 
> This event was caused no small vibration in the army, immediately set up by the South China Sea Fleet of the senior leadership responsible for the investigation team, in-depth and comprehensive investigation, and make rehabilitation work. Findings are confidential at the time, unable to understand the outside.
> 
> This strange incident, even if insiders are also controversial. Is encountered enemy special forces raid, fighting or other emergency occurs, the truth has not yet been fully understood.This incident, I analyzed are the following possibilities:
> 
> *1, most likely by the army special forces is. Vietnamese troops in 1988, "3.14" Red Reef of Nansha sea battle at a disadvantage, must look for an opportunity to retaliate. But then I Nansha garrison high vigilance and patrolling troops, combat readiness, they are hard to find opportunities. I combined the naval prisoners of war captured in Zhanjiang Nansha trial, our government has not yet handed over to Vietnam. Since 1990, our military posture in Nansha is clear, I observe activity patterns reef and the ship's officers that they have already mastered their "revenge about" conditions ripe. According to common sense traces of science, this action does not leave any suspicious items, indicating that other means quite clever. Does not exclude the other is the master shooting, fighting, diving techniques, and even combat may wear body armor. If this action as a planned and premeditated military action, should be considered very successful.* But not arbitrary conclusion is that after the successful implementation of this action the enemy, meritorious officers must reward, JiaGuanJinJue, will follow along with the media reports, trumpeted the so-called "heroic deeds", but did not. Things over the past 20 years, information and networks so advanced, Vietnam had not been seen in any public media reported. They do a job well done is confidential?
> Who killed 11 Chinese troops in Gaven Reefs in 1990 ?


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Mr Second said:


> I've said before, if Everything in this World can tell the right or wrong, so this World will be very quite PEACE! But how can everyone still live together even if there is difference? I tell you I'm only 24 years old now, but all those people, blonde, asian or black, I've meet to much. People should know how to live in this World. Maybe you understand too Little about Vietnam, no problem, calm down ok, insulting in Vietnam helps nothing if you know how Vietnam people to insult. Just tell them the truth that they can Believe. They will listen to you.



We want to be very nice with everyone, look how we are being nice with Africans/Arabs/Latinos. As long as they and we both respect each other, we will remain as friends for long time.

But now looks at the behavior from those big predators from the western world(USA) and those small predators from Asia(Japan/SK/Vietnam/Philippines). They are forcing us to become more aggressive.

We will remain nice as long as our sovereignty doesn't get bullied.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## beijingwalker

haha,if 1974 and 1988 are still not enough ,you can try it now again,we are fully prepared to do the slaughter again.

PLA island landing exercise in South China Sea.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viva_Viet

beijingwalker said:


> Haha,that's so absurd,China and US didn't even have diplomatic relationships until 1979. and in 1974 China was still under Mao's rule.Mao fought US in Korea and Vietnam. US president had to come to Beijing to bow down to him ,not the other way around.China took over the Paracels in* 1974. *


there is no use to lie, dude, stop reading ur cheap and full of lie history book, check on internet to find the correct one. China was so scare of Soviet-VietNam alliance so it come to US and begged for protection.


> *RECOGNITION AT LAST*
> Recognition of the People’s Republic of *China and the establishment of formal diplomatic relations between China and the United States finally came in January 1979*, during the presidency of Jimmy Carter. Zbigniew Brzezinski, Carter’s national security adviser, was eager to increase pressure on the Soviets and outmaneuvered bureaucratic rivals striving for détente with Moscow. He had little concern for the impact recognition of the People’s Republic would have on Taiwan.* Deng Xiaoping, the Chinese leader, wanted to use the relationship with the United States to deter Soviet intervention in the war he planned to launch against Vietnam*, then aligned with Moscow. To that end, he was willing to defer his complaints about continued American arms sales to Taiwan. In return, the Americans agreed to abrogate their mutual defense treaty with Taiwan, cease to recognize its government as the government of China, and reduce arms sales to the island as conditions in the region permitted.
> The United States and China during the Cold War | The Gilder Lehrman Institute of American History





> In December 1979, the USSR invaded the Democratic Republic of Afghanistan to sustain the Afghan Communist government. The PRC viewed the Soviet invasion as a local feint, within Russia's greater geopolitical encirclement of China.* In response, the PRC entered a tri-partite alliance with the U.S.* and Pakistan, to sponsor Islamist Afghan armed resistance to the Soviet Occupation (1979–89). (cf.Operation Storm-333) Meanwhile, the Sino-Soviet split became manifest when Deng Xiaoping, the paramount leader of China, required the removal of "three obstacles" so that Sino-Soviet relations might improve:
> Sino-Soviet split - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia





> In November 1978 Vietnam signed a treaty of friendship and cooperation with the Soviet Union. A month later the Vietnamese invaded Cambodia, a Chinese ally. Although Hanoi said it was forced to do so to stop Pol Pot's genocide and to put an end to his cross-border attacks against Vietnam, *Deng saw it as a calculated move by Moscow to use its allies to encircle China from the south.* Soviet adventurism in Southeast Asia had to be stopped, Deng said, and he was calculating (correctly, it turned out) that Moscow would not intervene in a limited border war between China and Vietnam. Carter's National Security Adviser, *Zbigniew Brzezinski, said Deng's explanation to Carter of his invasion plans*, with its calculated defiance of the Soviets, was the single most impressive demonstration of raw power politics that he had ever seen. At the time Deng was consolidating his position as unchallenged leader of China. Having successfully negotiated normalization of relations with Washington, he wanted to send a strong signal to Moscow against further advances in Asia. He also thought the Carter Administration was being too soft on the Soviets, although he did not say as much to his American hosts. Hanoi, for its part, was unfazed by Deng's demonstration of raw power. The Vietnamese fought the Chinese with local militia, not bothering to send in any of the regular army divisions that were then taken up with the occupation of Cambodia. Indeed, Hanoi showed no sign of withdrawing those troops, despite Chinese demands that they do so: the subsequent guerrilla war in Cambodia would bog down Vietnam's soldiers and bedevil its foreign relations for more than a decade. The towns captured by the Chinese were all just across the border; it is not clear whether China could have pushed much farther south. Having lost so many soldiers in taking the towns, the Chinese methodically blew up every building they could before withdrawing
> 
> Read more: A Nervous China Invades Vietnam - TIME A Nervous China Invades Vietnam - TIME

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Mr Second

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> We want to be very nice with everyone, look how we are being nice with Africans/Arabs/Latinos. As long as they and we both respect each other, we will remain as friends for long time.
> 
> But now looks at the behavior from those big predators from the western world(USA) and those small predators from Asia(Japan/SK/Vietnam/Philippines). They are forcing us to become more aggressive.
> 
> We will remain nice as long as our sovereignty doesn't get bullied.


Now you know how excellent those Chinese diplomats are? Now you know how clever the CCP high level officers is? Now you guys know why China cannot have democracy right now? Can you guys wise manage China very good in such complicated inner and international situation and at same time, keep a rapid pace on economy and a stable society? No! Through this forum, you understand? So how to live together? Wise!!! ok?


----------



## beijingwalker

Haha, why US president came to China to bow down to Mao then? Mao killed thousands of US soldiers and What kind of help your Russia and US daddies offered when China took over Paracels and some islands in Spratly in 1974 and 1988?


----------



## Viet

beijingwalker said:


> haha,no subs are cheaper than yours,the pic is so funny,you can claim the cheap "sub" title in the world.


ha ha ha...perhaps this vessel can impress you a bit. 2 more Gepard frigates as subhunter, equipped with Sthil-1 Missiles. Coming soon.
DEFENSE STUDIES: Second Batch of Gepard Equipped with Sthil-1 Missile














beijingwalker said:


> haha,if 1974 and 1988 are still not enough ,you can try it now again,we are fully prepared to do the slaughter again.


do you moron and retard feel so happy to tell what you had done? should I post images how the Japanese butchered and raped Chinese?


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Mr Second said:


> Now you know how excellent those Chinese diplomats are? Now you know how clever the CCP high level officers is? Now you guys know why China cannot have democracy right now? Can you guys wise manage China very good in such complicated inner and international situation and at same time, keep a rapid pace on economy and a stable society? No! Through this forum, you understand? So how to live together? Wise!!! ok?



The aggressive diplomatic gesture will prevent the direct war in this current world.

ROC also wanted peace with Japan even after the occupation of the Northeast China, but did this solution actually worked?

The most important for China is to keep developing its economy, with a good economy we can keep upgrading our military in a fast pace.

But some country like Japan shouldn't try to think because of the importance of economy, China will try to avoid any direct war at any cost. No, they were wrong, if China's redline has been stepped, then China won't hesitate to start a war.

PRC doesn't want to have any war, but PRC has learned the lesson from ROC. If the enemy has already pulled out the gun at you, then just strike back with any possible way instead of back down. Otherwise, it would result bigger trouble for you in the future.


----------



## Viva_Viet

> Haha, why US president came to China to bow down to Mao then? Mao killed thousands of US soldiers and What kind of help your Russia and US daddies offered when China took over Paracels and some islands in Spratly in 1974 and 1988?


1974 incident was the problem of former South VN govt. U should ask Gambit, I dont know and dont care. in 1988, u had ur daddy US , and we r busy to kill Chinese in Laos-Camb.

U r alone from 1990 until now, and look what China big mouth could do when 11 Chinese troops slaughtered in 1990 in Spratly , yeah, they did Nothing when their men got kill bcz they r so scared when standing alone without US daddy protection . what ashamed for a big mouth!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## beijingwalker

Come on and send your ships then. As for the WWII anyway in the end we defeated Japan and Japan got nuked.and in SCS we were just protecting our territory.


----------



## Mr Second

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The aggressive diplomatic gesture will prevent the direct war in this current world.
> 
> ROC also wanted peace with Japan even after the occupation of the Northeast China, but did this solution actually worked?
> 
> The most important for China is to keep developing its economy, with a good economy we can keep upgrading our military in a fast pace.
> 
> But if some country like Japan shouldn't try to think because of the importance of economy, China will try to avoid any direct war at any cost. No, they were wrong, if China's redline has been stepped, then China won't hesitate to start a war.
> 
> PRC doesn't want to have any war, but PRC has learned the lesson from ROC. If the enemy has already pulled out the gun at you, then just strike back with any possible way instead of back down. This would result bigger trouble for you in the future.


 OMG, how old are you now? Yes, TV, news, everyone says the relation is very tight! However, have Japan and China had a hot war ever even the situation is so tension? Reason? Even the president cannot meet each other, is there something else other can do? Both side have a deadline and both all know. Only the people everyday talk about war! OMG, Vietnam people also understand. Even my wife understand...


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Viva_Viet said:


> 1974 incident was the problem of former South VN govt. U should ask Gambit, I dont know and dont care. in 1988, u had ur daddy US , and we r busy to kill Chinese in Laos-Camb.
> 
> U r alone from 1990 until now, and look what China big mouth could do when 11 Chinese troops slaughtered in 1990 in Spratly , yeah, they did Nothing when their men got kill bcz they r so scared when standing alone without US daddy protection . what ashamed for a big mouth!



With the same slogan repeated at 100 times won't change the current status between your country and China.

What is the solution for your country, it is to accept China's right leadership in East Asia (just like she was in thousands years ago) and stop your rebellious mind.

Otherwise, there is no goodness for you to keep confronting China, since China will keep pissing on your head no matter how much you are not pleased.


----------



## beijingwalker

Haha,you are just hilarious .every knows(including yourself) so clear what will happen to VN navy if a war broke out in SCS,you are just making yourself a laughing stock.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Mr Second said:


> OMG, how old are you now? Yes, TV, news, everyone says the relation is very tight! However, have Japan and China had a hot war ever even the situation is so tension? Reason? Even the president cannot meet each other, is there something else other can do? Both side have a deadline and both all know. Only the people everyday talk about war! OMG, Vietnam people also understand. Even my wife understand...



Your perspective for the current diplomatic world is simply too young and too naive.

Do you think Japan will stop even we give up the sovreignty on Diaoyu Island? They are not aimed at Diaoyu Island, but to aim to start a proxy war against China.

Diaoyu Island was just an excuse. Just remember 83 years ago, they had annexed our Dongbei provinces, the ROC government wanted peace, yet it didn't stop the Japanese invasion in 1937.

PRC would have a lot of troubles if she didn't act tough in her stance of Diaoyu Island.


----------



## Mr Second

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Your perspective for the current diplomatic world is simply too young and too naive.
> 
> Do you think Japan will stop even we give up the sovreignty on Diaoyu Island? They are not aimed at Diaoyu Island, but to aim to start a proxy war against China.
> 
> Diaoyu Island was just an excuse. Just remember 83 years ago, they had annexed our Dongbei provinces, the ROC government wanted peace, yet it didn't stop the Japanese invasion in 1937.
> 
> PRC would have a lot trouble if she didn't act tough in the stance of Diaoyu Island.


Ok, I will say a Little bit more. Chinese and Japanese air fighter flies everyday onto the Island, dont they? Have you ever seen one Chinese or Japanese soilder come in the Island? Maybe, I just say maybe, it's the deadline. Really guys, the World is not what you Think.


----------



## Viet

beijingwalker said:


> Come on and send your ships then. As for the WWII anyway in the end we defeated Japan and Japan got nuked.and in SCS we were just protecting our territory.


you Chinese have never administered or controlled the Sea in the last 2,000 years. Nobody in the world believes your lie.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Mr Second said:


> Ok, I will say a Little bit more. Chinese and Japanese air fighter flies everyday onto the Island, dont they? Have you ever seen one Chinese or Japanese soilder come in the Island? Maybe, I just say maybe, it's the deadline. Really guys, the World is not what you Think.



China needs to maintain her tough stance, so as Japan.

This is the so-called proxy war, both side maintains a hostile tension towards each other.

I didn't say that i want a war, i want China to focus to develop her economy in the next 20 years, but i wanted to say that China should be ready to fight the war at any time if the hostile nations want to escalate the tension.

When you are not afraid of fighting a war, the war won't come at you.

ROC didn't want any war, but the war still came after to them.


----------



## beijingwalker

Viet said:


> you Chinese have never administered or controlled the Sea in the last 2,000 years. Nobody in the world believes your lie.



in the last 2,000 years we controlled and administered Vietnam for 1000 years,and that is not a lie.


----------



## Viet

cirr said:


> Stop being childish。
> 
> View attachment 13302
> 
> 
> A corner of one of many PLAN sub bases。*China has a sub fleet of over 60*，and is building new subs at a rate of 4-5 a year。China has both nuclear attack subs and nuclear strategic subs。Vietnam？If China pleases，it can build 10 a year。Vietnam？You use your limied foreign reserves to buy a few outdated Russian *junks* over 10 years or more。


do you want to dispatch all 60 subs into the SCS? if so, go ahead. The Japanese will be very happy to hear that.

As for your remark "junk", we will see, the Kilo subs are equipped with Klub-S land atack cruise missiles (range 300km), the first of its kind in South East Asia.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> ha ha ha...perhaps this vessel can impress you a bit. 2 more Gepard frigates as subhunter, equipped with Sthil-1 Missiles. Coming soon.
> DEFENSE STUDIES: Second Batch of Gepard Equipped with Sthil-1 Missile
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> do you moron and retard feel so happy to tell what you had done? *should I post images how the Japanese butchered and raped Chinese?*



China can easily pull out 10 Type 056 corvettes in one year.

2-3 Gepards will easily get ripped into pieces by 20-30 Type 056.

Keep in mind that Type 056 is only our lightest sea troop.

Japanese managed to butcher a weak version of China, but today's China could make the thing opposite or even 100 times more brutal than what they did to China back in 70 years ago.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Mr Second

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> China needs to maintain her tough stance, so as Japan.
> 
> This is the so-called proxy war, both side maintains a hostile tension towards each other.
> 
> I didn't say that i want a war, i want China to focus to develop her economy in the next 20 years, but i wanted to say that China should be ready to fight the war at any time if the hostile nations want to escalate the tension.
> 
> When you are not afraid of fighting a war, the war won't come at you.
> 
> ROC didn't want any war, but the war still happened to them.


Ok, you have your opinion, I dont want to say more. But please remember one thing: I, personally Think, the World neednt war but a balance order, and weapon is what people can keep the order, not declare a war. How can China and Japan maintain a stable situation? Answer is both complex Power and will have a balance, on the other hand, one cannot get something but must pay a lot whatever in economy or lives through war. It is the balance, and it is the Peace. Why China lost Peace in history was the balance was broken.


----------



## beijingwalker

China has 2 Original Kilo, 10 Improved Kilo currently in operation, but now we lost interest of that type cause we can build better ones.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Mr Second said:


> Ok, you have your opinion, I dont want to say more. But please remember one thing: I, personally Think, the World neednt war but a balance order, and weapon is what people can keep the order, not declare a war. How can China and Japan maintain a stable situation? Answer is both complex Power and will have a balance, on the other hand, one cannot get something but must pay a lot whatever in economy or lives through war. It is the balance, and it is the Peace. Why China lost Peace in history was the balance was broken.



China isn't here to invade other people, but she needs to develop the most advanced weapons to protect her people from the most brutal warmongers in this world.

China doesn't want the land from Japan, but Japan always wants the land from China, the history has already proved it.

Diaoyu Island is also our land, and if CPC is naive like you, then China would already no longer exist.


----------



## Mr Second

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> China isn't here to invade other people, but she needs to develop the most advanced weapons to protect her people from the most brutal warmongers in this world.
> 
> China doesn't want the land from Japan, but Japan always wants the land from China, the history has already proved it.
> 
> Diaoyu Island is also our land, and if CPC is naive like you, then China would already no longer exist.


You want know the truth?


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Mr Second said:


> You want know the truth?



There is nothing secret, since it is the human nature.

Since Japan has constantly suffered from the earthquake, now the radiation leak from Fukushima.

These are the key points that leads them into their path of militarism.

Since China has a large chunk of land and it is also a neighbor country, kill off the Chinese and occupy their land is what comes the true mind of those Japanese right-wingers.

They are for their survival, but we are also for our survival.


----------



## Mr Second

Mr Second said:


> You want know the truth?


Here is the problem: There is an addition term in the Potsdam Announcement, USA said China would get the sovereignty of Diaoyu Island, while Japan could get the rights of mangement. How can you deal with that?


----------



## Viet

this announcement of China is a piece of shit.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Mr Second said:


> Here is the problem: There is an addition term in the Potsdam Announcement, USA said China would get the sovereignty of Diaoyu Island, while Japan could get the rights of mangement. How can you deal with that?



This is what PRC wanted before 2012, but now it is too late, since Japan has unilaterally changed this status quo, it cannot be reversed to the previous state.

This is the international politics, when something has already done, you cannot change it back.


----------



## Mr Second

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> This is what PRC wanted before 2012, but now it is too late, since Japan has unilaterally changed this status quo, it cannot be reversed to the previous state.
> 
> This is the international politics, when something has already done, you cannot change it back.


You know it is the politics now? Another thing, in your history book, why The Four Northern Island was written "Russia occupied" since China and Japan are enemy?



Mr Second said:


> You know it is the politics now? Another thing, in your history book, why The Four Northern Island was written "Russia occupied" since China and Japan are enemy?


If I told you after 5 years, maybe China and Japan will look like very good friend. Do you Believe that?



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> This is what PRC wanted before 2012, but now it is too late, since Japan has unilaterally changed this status quo, it cannot be reversed to the previous state.
> 
> This is the international politics, when something has already done, you cannot change it back.


If I told you after 5 years, maybe China and Japan will look like very good friend. Do you Believe that?


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Mr Second said:


> You know it is the politics now? Another thing, in your history book, why The Four Northern Island was written "Russia occupied" since China and Japan are enemy?



It is a proxy war, the islands are just an excuse.

Japan's true intention is to destroy China internally, while re-militarized themselves, so they can start to occupy China's land and to kill its people again.

Russia also cannot concede any island back to Japan, otherwise it would cause a domino effect to their overall territorial sovereignty.

But Japan right now is not aimed at Russia, she wants to first destroy China.

Japan's militarism mind always has the ambition to rule the world, but they need to occupy China first as a bridge to conquer the rest of the world.


----------



## Mr Second

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> It is a proxy war, the islands are just an excuse.
> 
> Japan's true intention is to destroy China internally, while re-militarized themselves, so they can start to occupy China's land and to kill its people again.
> 
> Russia also cannot concede any island back to Japan, otherwise it would cause a domino effect to their overall territorial sovereignty.
> 
> But Japan right now is not aimed at Russia, she wants to first destroy China.
> 
> Japan's militarism mind always has the ambition to rule the world, but they need to occupy China first as a bridge to conquer the world.


Whatever you Think, I just tell you what the politics is. I learnt such relation in Oslo University and with my experience, this is politice. Sorry if you are sad.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Mr Second said:


> Whatever you Think, I just tell you what the politics is. I learnt such relation in Oslo University and with my experience, this is politice. Sorry if you are sad.



You can choose to not believe my opinion, but i am refering the dark side of human nature that exists in everyone.

In fact, i was also hoping that China and Japan as two great Asian nations can be good friend and forget the unpleasant past. I also hope that Japanese could live happily in their land and never have any land dispute with other nations.

But the fate has chose to pit us against each other. You have to know that Fukushima now has become a threat to survival of their entire nation. This threat is main reason that pushes them to the old path of the WWII.

Abe in fact got over 80% of support from its people, because most Japanese do realize that militarization is only way to save their people from brink of extinction. They have to look and to conquer for new land. And China is next to them, so it is the most suitable for their first destination.

From my opinion, if Japan's islands would not be habitable in the next decades, then we could accept them if they want to be assimilated into our nation and to become our 57th ethnicities. And we can also forgive their past.

But too bad, in their right-wing dominated mind, they want to conquer us like the WASP did conquer the Native Americans, they don't want to become part of us.


----------



## Mr Second

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> You can choose to not believe my opinion, but i am refering the dark side of human nature that exists in everyone.
> 
> In fact, i was also hoping that China and Japan as two great Asian nations can be good friend and forget the unpleasant past. I also hope that Japanese could live happily in their land and never have any land dispute with other nations.
> 
> But the fate has chose to pit us against each other. You have to know that Fukushima now has become a threat to survival of their entire nation. This threat is main reason that pushes them to the old path of the WWII.
> 
> Abe in fact got over 80% of support from its people, because most Japanese do realize that militarization is only way to save their people from brink of extinction. They have to look and to conquer for new land. And China is next to them, so it is the most suitable for their first destination.
> 
> From my opinion, if Japan's islands would not be habitable in the next decades, then we could accept them if they want to be assimilated into our nation and to become our 57th ethnicities. And we can also forgive their past.
> 
> But too bad, in their right-wing dominated mind, they want to conquer us like the WASP did conquer the Native Americans, they don't want to become part of us.


OMG, no way! China and Japan never can be good friend. Why dont you understand?



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> You can choose to not believe my opinion, but i am refering the dark side of human nature that exists in everyone.
> 
> In fact, i was also hoping that China and Japan as two great Asian nations can be good friend and forget the unpleasant past. I also hope that Japanese could live happily in their land and never have any land dispute with other nations.
> 
> But the fate has chose to pit us against each other. You have to know that Fukushima now has become a threat to survival of their entire nation. This threat is main reason that pushes them to the old path of the WWII.
> 
> Abe in fact got over 80% of support from its people, because most Japanese do realize that militarization is only way to save their people from brink of extinction. They have to look and to conquer for new land. And China is next to them, so it is the most suitable for their first destination.
> 
> From my opinion, if Japan's islands would not be habitable in the next decades, then we could accept them if they want to be assimilated into our nation and to become our 57th ethnicities. And we can also forgive their past.
> 
> But too bad, in their right-wing dominated mind, they want to conquer us like the WASP did conquer the Native Americans, they don't want to become part of us.


When did I say "good friend"? you ate my Word...


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Mr Second said:


> OMG, no way! China and Japan never can be good friend. Why dont you understand?
> 
> 
> When did I say "good friend"? you ate my Word...



Japan's ambition is too big, they cannot become our friend.


----------



## Viet

Fsjal said:


> *Why does America support Vietnam's claim*. If Vietnam occupies SCS (which is impossible), then all the oils will be used to fix Vietnam's sh*tty infrastructures and their piece of sh*t army.


very simple, because uncle Sam hates competion. America wants to remain the sole superpower, and does everything to stop the Chinese.

Vietnam is the only nation in South East Asia, that is capable to pose some challenge to China. What do you think, which country as ally America will choose if it comes to a blow with China in the dispute: Vietnam, Malaysia, the Phillipines or Brunei?


----------



## Mr Second

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Japan's ambition is too big, they cannot become our friend.


I will give you Another example and we stop this topic. The example about VN, and I Think VNs brain can understand what I said. Two countries governments are not friendly today because of the economic interest. So you and they come here, insult with each other. However, after 5 yrs, because of something which has the same intrest(I say nonsense ok!) maybe Thailand is to strong to threaten China and VN. At that time, the traditional friendship will come again and government will forget all the arguement. Japan is same same. This is politcs! you guys remember: Only common people have real friendship! ok.


----------



## Viva_Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> With the same slogan repeated at 100 times won't change the current status between your country and China.
> 
> What is the solution for your country, it is to accept China's right leadership in East Asia (just like she was in thousands years ago) and stop your rebellious mind.
> 
> Otherwise, there is no goodness for you to keep confronting China, since China will keep pissing on your head no matter how much you are not pleased.


I think the best solution is keeping slaughter Chinese troops silently like in 1990 and China corrupted Xi will keep quite as usual . Who cares if Chinese troop in spratly of SCS(E sea) got killed mercilessly, right 



beijingwalker said:


> Haha,you are just hilarious .every knows(including yourself) so clear what will happen to VN navy if a war broke out in SCS,you are just making yourself a laughing stock.


What happened when China lost its daddy was 11 Chinese troops got killed mercilessly in 1990 and China corrputed leader keep quite coz they only care abt they own families


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Mr Second said:


> I will give you Another example and we stop this topic. The example about VN, and I Think VNs brain can understand what I said. Two countries governments are not friendly today because of the economic interest. So you and they come here, insult with each other. However, after 5 yrs, because of something which has the same intrest(I say nonsense ok!) maybe Thailand is to strong to threaten China and VN. At that time, the traditional friendship will come again and government will forget all the arguement. Japan is same same. This is politcs! you guys remember: Only common people have real friendship! ok.



Vietnam and Japan have different goal, Vietnam only eyes those islands for the rich resources.

While Japan's ambition is much bigger, she is not only eyeing those islands, but she is also eyeing to conquer the whole China.

钓鱼岛只不过一个诱饵，但最终目的是用来钓中国这条大鱼的。其实中共一开始为了搞经济，但又不能被人说放弃领土主权，所以对一直对钓鱼岛睁一只眼闭一只眼。日本一开始就对中国的崛起就非常的妒忌，但经历福岛核辐射之后感到了严重的民族危机，所以急剧右倾化。他们几千年来一直都想登上亚洲大陆，现在就更不用说了。

钓鱼岛你已经实际控制了，但为何还要这样单方面的国有化不给中国这个一个大国一点的台阶下？这样明目张胆的挑衅就看得出他们的目标根本就不是一个小小的钓鱼岛。这些都是日本要挑起的，中国现在不可能像几十年前那样坐以待毙任由他们宰割。


----------



## beijingwalker

A supposed treaty bound ally US did bother come to help S.Vietnam in 1974, and you expect they will do better for communist Vietnam in the next conflict.ha,ok, wait and see.


----------



## faithfulguy

Viet said:


> do you want to dispatch all 60 subs into the SCS? if so, go ahead. The Japanese will be very happy to hear that.
> 
> As for your remark "junk", we will see, the Kilo subs are equipped with Klub-S land atack cruise missiles (range 300km), the first of its kind in South East Asia.



Why are you guys brag about something you are getting that they already have gotten more than a decade ago.


----------



## beijingwalker

are you smoking something ? I don't know what you are talking about...but anyway you don't sound in a sane mind.


----------



## Mr Second

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Vietnam and Japan have different goal, Vietnam only eyes those islands for the rich resources.
> 
> While Japan's ambition is much bigger, she is not only eyeing those islands, but she is not eyeing to conquer the whole China.
> 
> 钓鱼岛只不过一个诱饵，但最终目的是用来钓中国这条大鱼的。其实中共一开始为了搞经济，但又不能被人说放弃领土主权，所以对一直对钓鱼岛睁一只眼闭一只眼。日本一开始就对中国的崛起就非常的妒忌，但经历福岛核辐射之后感到了严重的民族危机，所以急剧右倾化。他们几千年来一直都想登上亚洲大陆，现在就更不用说了。
> 
> 钓鱼岛你已经实际控制了，但为何还要这样单方面的国有化不给中国这个一个大国一点的台阶下？这样明目张胆的挑衅就看得出他们的目标根本就不是一个小小的钓鱼岛。这些都是日本要挑起的，中国现在不可能像几十年前那样坐以待毙任他们宰割。


ok ok ok, take a rest. Dont be exciting. 别激动。ok


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Viva_Viet said:


> I think the best solution is keeping slaughter Chinese troops silently like in 1990 and China corrupted Xi will keep quite as usual . Who cares if Chinese troop in spratly of SCS(E sea) got killed mercilessly, right
> 
> 
> What happened when China lost its daddy was 11 Chinese troops got killed mercilessly in 1990 and China corrputed leader keep quite coz they only care abt they own families



Go ahead, i hope you can declare the war on China immediately.

Good riddance for us to wipe out the troublemakers.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Mr Second said:


> ok ok ok, take a rest. Dont be exciting. 别激动。ok



I am always calm, but you are too naive to see the real world.

There is no saint, it is full of wolves and bloodsuckers.

May i ask you one question?

Nearly 80 years ago, Japan has invaded China and killed nearly 50 million people.

I think that you won't deny that their goal was to conquer China?

Today, most of their people are still worshipping these criminals and warmongers who have committed unforgivable atrocity to China.

Do you truly believe that they are truly given up their lust of conquering China? I don't believe the promise, i only believe the action.


----------



## Mr Second

Viet said:


> this announcement of China is a piece of shit.


Hey guy, how old are you, you are in Germany now. You know what is meanless ok? dont insult too much.



Viet said:


> this announcement of China is a piece of shit.


they are just Children, one side of both must stop and the stupid thing can stop. you are not Child, friend.


----------



## Viva_Viet

beijingwalker said:


> are you smoking something ? I don't know what you are talking about...but anyway you don't sound in a sane mind.


Did ur corrputed Govt. teach u that 11 Chinese troops killed mercilessly in Gaven reef (Spratly ) in SCS(e sea) in 1990 ??



ChineseTiger198 said:


> Go ahead, i hope you can declare the war on China immediately.
> 
> Good riddance for us to wipe out the troublemakers.


Killing ur men silently is better choice for us


----------



## Viva_Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Vietnam and Japan have different goal, Vietnam only eyes those islands for the rich resources.
> 
> While Japan's ambition is much bigger, she is not only eyeing those islands, but she is also eyeing to conquer the whole China.


Paracel island is just a place to collect bird's shjjt, we want it back just bcz our forefather claim it first so it belong to us, thats all

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## S10

Viva_Viet said:


> Did ur corrputed Govt. teach u that 11 Chinese troops killed mercilessly in Gaven reef (Spratly ) in SCS(e sea) in 1990 ??
> 
> 
> Killing ur men silently is better choice for us


Are you still going on about that fantasy of yours that never happened? Do you retard monkeys take daydreams as reality now?

This is what reality looks like:






Notice your fellow Viet monkeys burning to death.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

faithfulguy said:


> Why are you guys *brag *about something you are getting that they already have gotten more than a decade ago.


who cares of what someone has a decade ago?
don´t Chinese brag of its first aircaft carrier? can you tell me when America and Japan had their first one?
who are the guys that laugh on poor VN? they are very happy.


----------



## Viva_Viet

S10 said:


> Are you still going on about that fantasy of yours that never happened? Do you retard monkeys take daydreams as reality now?
> 
> This is what reality looks like:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Notice your fellow Viet monkeys burning to death.


With US daddy's help China burned our ship, when the daddy left his bad son high and dry, in 1990 , 11 Chinese troops got riddled by hundred bullets and all what corrputed China leader could do was only sit and watch


----------



## Viet

Mr Second said:


> Hey guy, how old are you, you are in Germany now. You know what is meanless ok? dont insult too much..they are just Children, one side of both must stop and the stupid thing can stop. you are not Child, friend.


look at the posts of your countrymen. pls tell them how to behave. thanks.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Viva_Viet said:


> Paracel island is just a place to collect bird's shjjt, we want it back just bcz our forefather claim it first so it belong to us, thats all



Well, don't ever try to think like Japan, you will eventually overstretch yourself.


----------



## beijingwalker

Viva_Viet said:


> Did ur corrputed Govt. teach u that 11 Chinese troops killed mercilessly in Gaven reef (Spratly ) in SCS(e sea) in 1990 ??
> 
> Killing ur men silently is better choice for us



No, any reliable sources? pics or videos?


----------



## beijingwalker

*Rainsy Says CNRP Backs China, Not Vietnam, in Sea Dispute*
By Kuch Naren - January 11, 2014



> Sam Rainsy, president of the opposition CNRP, said Friday that* his party sided with China in the multilateral disputes over the South China Sea, and claimed that Vietnam was trying to encroach on Chinese maritime territory.*
> 
> *“[W]e are on the side of China, and we support China in fighting against Vietnam over the South China Sea issue,” Mr. Rainsy told a crowd of about 1,000 party supporters at the CNRP’s provincial headquarters in Siem Reap city.*
> 
> During his speech, Mr. Rainsy again used anti-Vietnamese rhetoric, and repeatedly referred to the Vietnamese and Vietnam as “yuon,” a word some consider derogatory to describe the Vietnamese.
> 
> “It [Vietnam] goes and invades everywhere, and it steals land from Cambodians because the illegal government is a puppet of yuon,” he said in his speech.
> *
> “The islands belong to China, but yuon is trying to occupy [the islands] from China, because yuon is very bad,” Mr. Rainsy said.*
> 
> Parts of the South China Sea, a large swathe of which China stakes a renewed claim to, are also claimed by Vietnam, the Philippines, Indonesia, Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan.
> 
> Tran Van Thong, a counselor at the Vietnamese Embassy in Phnom Penh, said that Mr. Rainsy’s comments on the maritime dispute didn’t bother him.
> 
> “We are not interested in his comments,” Mr. Van Thong said.
> 
> Siem Reap was the first stop for the opposition party leader on a trip that will take him and CNRP vice president Kem Sokha to several provinces where they will try to gather support before they are due to be questioned at the Phnom Penh Municipal Court on Tuesday for allegedly inciting garment workers to protest.
> 
> Phay Siphan, spokesman for the Council of Ministers, said that Mr. Rainsy could support whomever he wants, but that Prime Minister Hun Sen’s CPP government was neutral on the dispute between China and members of Asean.
> 
> “[W]e are very neutral about this case, because we are not in favor of any countries,” Mr. Siphan said.
> 
> Mr. Hun Sen’s government, however, is seen as being anything but neutral when it comes to China’s claims in the emotive sea dispute.
> 
> *During the Asean Foreign Ministers meeting in July 2012, the 10-member bloc failed to release a joint communiqué for the first time in its 45-year history as Cambodia, who chaired the meeting, had done everything in its power to keep the South China Sea dispute off the agenda, much to the chagrin of it allies in Asean.*
> 
> *Cambodia is now regularly referred to as China’s staunchest ally in the region.*



Rainsy Says CNRP Backs China, Not Vietnam, in Sea Dispute | The Cambodia Daily

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

Rainsy is a hater, and not a policy decision maker in Cambodia. He leads the opposition party and that´s all. Vietnam (and Viet settlers in Cambodia) will make sure that *Hun Sen* and his party win every election. I like democracy.

Vietnam, Cambodia push for stronger bonds | VOV Online Newspaper


----------



## Srinivas

Things are not looking right for China, The disputes will make china an unstable country for sure.


----------



## beijingwalker

Defence budget:
China. $166 billion
Vietnam $3 billion


----------



## beijingwalker

Viet said:


> Rainsy is a hater, and not a policy decision maker in Cambodia. He leads the opposition party and that´s all. Vietnam (and Viet settlers in Cambodia) will make sure that *Hun Sen* and his party win every election. I like democracy.



He did the same thing 


> Mr.* Hun Sen’s* government, however, is seen as being anything but neutral when it comes to China’s claims in the emotive sea dispute.
> 
> *During the Asean Foreign Ministers meeting in July 2012, the 10-member bloc failed to release a joint communiqué for the first time in its 45-year history as Cambodia, who chaired the meeting, had done everything in its power to keep the South China Sea dispute off the agenda, much to the chagrin of it allies in Asean.*
> 
> *Cambodia is now regularly referred to as China’s staunchest ally in the region.*


----------



## Viet

Srinivas said:


> Things are not looking right for China, The disputes will make china an unstable country for sure.


Chinese try to instigate Cambodia, that is not new. But the Cambodians know from its history that it is never wise to act against its mighty neighbor Vietnam.


----------



## Fsjal

Viva_Viet said:


> 1974 incident was the problem of former South VN govt. U should ask Gambit, I dont know and dont care.


You are a dumb idiot. Why ask that mental deficient fool?



S10 said:


> Notice your fellow Viet monkeys burning to death.


They drowned before they catch their breath.


----------



## beijingwalker

Srinivas said:


> Things are not looking right for China, The disputes will make china an unstable country for sure.



Come to China and you will find out that China is way more stable than India,which is beset by numerous rebel groups.



Viet said:


> Chinese try to instigate Cambodia, that is not new. But the Cambodians know from its history that it is never wise to act against its mighty neighbor Vietnam.


Mighty Vietnam,haha



> In the published comments,* Mr Hos accused the Philippines and Vietnam of attempting to "sabotage and hijack the joint communique" during the Asean meeting.*
> BBC News - Philippines and Cambodia in South China Sea row

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

beijingwalker said:


> *Rainsy Says CNRP Backs China, Not Vietnam, in Sea Dispute*
> By Kuch Naren - January 11, 2014
> 
> 
> 
> Rainsy Says CNRP Backs China, Not Vietnam, in Sea Dispute | The Cambodia Daily



Sam Rainsy used China as his support ( China not confirm ) to compete with PM Samdec Hunsen who officially get the support of Vietnam. 

Sam Rainsy should know that HunSen won over Khmer Rouge ( officially supported by China and Sihanouk and UN and ... US ... )


----------



## BoQ77

What Vietnam got now, much more than countable weapons ....
More aggressive China act, more supportive movement to Vietnam ( even from some countries we never can dream of getting their support )

We even could use that to develop our economy, not only for military ...

For example, Cam Ranh naval base now offer technical services to both Russia and USA ... Japan and India also need that ...


----------



## Viet

beijingwalker said:


> He did the same thing


But Hun Sen never says anything hateful against Vietnam. He knows we saved his country from the abyss.


----------



## beijingwalker

Money talks ,no one likes to be a friend of a dirt poor country.



Viet said:


> But Hun Sen never says anything hateful against Vietnam. He knows we saved his country from the abyss.



Yet his government supported China in Asen conference.


----------



## Viet

beijingwalker said:


> Money talks ,no one likes to be a friend of a dirt poor country.


do you think you can buy friendship with money?
here a new monument celebrating Vietnamese victory over Cambodia, Hun Sen cut the inauguration banner. lol







beijingwalker said:


> Yet his government supported China in *Asen* conference.


ASEAN, you fool


----------



## beijingwalker

typo is everywhere on the internet and money can buy friends,that's very true. everyone knows it and it works in any country.


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Viet said:


> Rainsy is a hater, and not a policy decision maker in Cambodia. He leads the opposition party and that´s all. *Vietnam (and Viet settlers in Cambodia) will make sure that Hun Sen and his party win every election. I like democracy.*
> 
> Vietnam, Cambodia push for stronger bonds | VOV Online Newspaper



Even Homer Simpson thinks you're a failure as a human being.





Cambodia is a totalitarian one party state (sounds familiar?) & you support it even though you just said you like Democracy.


----------



## eazzy

Mighty Vietnam ? LOL.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Even Homer Simpson thinks you're a failure as a human being.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cambodia is a totalitarian one party state (sounds familiar?) & you support it even though you just said you like Democracy.


my comment was ironic. in the case of Cambodia, I like it when Hun Sen wins every election. Rainsy is dangerous for Vietnam.


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Viet said:


> my comment was ironic. in the case of Cambodia, I like it when Hun Sen wins every election. Rainsy is dangerous for Vietnam.



Hun Sen is Pro-China. Just look at last year ASEAN meeting & ask everyone. So I don't understand your Pro Hun Sen view.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## kankan326

Viva_Viet said:


> 11 Chinese troops got riddled by hundred bullets and all what corrputed China leader could do was only sit and watch


Never happened. Vietnam government was not stupid. The move only puts Vietnamese soldiers on other SCS islands in the risk of revenge. 
Stop masturbation.


----------



## Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Hun Sen is Pro-China. Just look at last year ASEAN meeting & ask everyone. So I don't understand your Pro Hun Sen view.


the event was just one of the many events happened last year. don´t overrate it.
as when China noticed they just damaged themselves by such silly move, they agreed to negotiate the code of coduct. that is exactly what Vietnam and the Philippines have wanted.


----------



## Maxtini

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> I am always calm, but you are too naive to see the real world.
> 
> There is no saint, it is full of wolves and bloodsuckers.
> 
> May i ask you one question?
> 
> Nearly 80 years ago, Japan has invaded China and killed nearly 50 million people.
> 
> I think that you won't deny that their goal was to conquer China?
> 
> Today, most of their people are still worshipping these criminals and warmongers who have committed unforgivable atrocity to China.
> 
> Do you truly believe that they are truly given up their lust of conquering China? I don't believe the promise, i only believe the action.



Geez~ history is history~
Nearly 600 years ago Mongols led by Gengis Khan and Kubilai Khan invaded and conquered the whole region including China stretching from Far East to Near East~ A lot of atrocities were also commited, the destruction were unprecedented, leading to the fall of Islamic Civilization.

I don't think nowadays there are any nation, especially Islamic countries protesting Mongols over their glorification of Gengis Khan and Kubilai Khan~ They even erect statues commemorating their national "hero"!

As you said, the world is full of wolves and bloodsuckers~
The strong nation invade weak nation~ that's how it was the norm until after World War II; To be invaded was mere the sign of weaknessses of the invaded countries; China was weak and corrupted, it was a natural consequences of being weak at those times.

Heck even China invaded Viernam~ Did vietnamese even call for Chinese to apologize?


----------



## Viet

_Things are becoming interesting..._

*US condemns 'provocative' Chinese edict over South China Sea fisheries*
Latest territorial assertion by Beijing requires foreign crews operating in disputed waters to notify Chinese authorities

Associated Press in Washington and Beijing
theguardian.com, Friday 10 January 2014 06.55 GMT





_Chinese aircraft carrier the Liaoning returns from exercises in the disputed South China Sea. Photograph: Reuters
_
US condemns 'provocative' Chinese edict over South China Sea fisheries | World news | theguardian.com


----------



## beijingwalker

China also condemns US once in a while,but those are only lip service, world powers always have mutual tacit respect to each other.


----------



## Mr Second

Viet said:


> look at the posts of your countrymen. pls tell them how to behave. thanks.


They have their freedom to insult here, I cannot forbid them even if I dont want to blame, but I remind you, this topic was made by Indian instead of Vietnamese or Chinese guys, but the insult seems very hot.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Viet said:


> the event was just one of the many events happened last year. don´t overrate it.
> as when China noticed they just damaged themselves by such silly move, they agreed to negotiate the code of coduct. that is exactly what Vietnam and the Philippines have wanted.



Hun Sen hijacked the discussion saying Vietnam & Philippines claim is "absurd and or aggressive." Do you even remember the last meeting in Cambodia or do you suffer from short term memory loss?

The CoC (Code of Conduct) is Indonesia's brainchild so please do not take credit for it. Maybe its time to admit that Cambodia is not a Vietnam puppet state, but China.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

beijingwalker said:


> China also condemns US once in a while,but those are only lip service, world powers always have mutual tacit respect to each other.


ha ha ha...you are a coward. you are only good at bullying the weak!
why don´t you post pictures of your warships and laugh at the US?


----------



## EastSea

Mr Second said:


> They have their freedom to insult here, I cannot forbid them even if I dont want to blame, but I remind you, this topic was made by Indian instead of Vietnamese or Chinese guys, but the insult seems very hot.



Read here. Its chinese warmonger boy.

Beijing shows resolve in South China Sea claims


----------



## Zero_wing

Maxtini said:


> Geez~ history is history~
> Nearly 600 years ago Mongols led by Gengis Khan and Kubilai Khan invaded and conquered the whole region including China stretching from Far East to Near East~ A lot of atrocities were also commited, the destruction were unprecedented, leading to the fall of Islamic Civilization.
> 
> I don't think nowadays there are any nation, especially Islamic countries protesting Mongols over their glorification of Gengis Khan and Kubilai Khan~ They even erect statues commemorating their national "hero"!
> 
> As you said, the world is full of wolves and bloodsuckers~
> The strong nation invade weak nation~ that's how it was the norm until after World War II; To be invaded was mere the sign of weaknessses of the invaded countries; China was weak and corrupted, it was a natural consequences of being weak at those times.
> 
> Heck even China invaded Viernam~ Did vietnamese even call for Chinese to apologize?



Well the chincoms always have nothing to say as usual they are throwing the region to war


----------



## Zero_wing

Well said they nothing more than warmongering zealots of their stupid regime and their god mao who grabs the seas and lands of others and poison the world with their lies and their cheap copied made products

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

S10 said:


> Are you still going on about that fantasy of yours that never happened? Do you retard monkeys take daydreams as reality now?
> 
> This is what reality looks like:
> Notice your fellow Viet monkeys burning to death.


don´t provoke me to post pictures of Chinese raped and killed by the Japanese, you moron.



Fsjal said:


> You are a dumb idiot. Why ask that mental deficient fool?
> 
> They drowned before they catch their breath.


do you feel good when you lick Chinese boots?



Mr Second said:


> They have their freedom to insult here, I cannot forbid them even if I dont want to blame, but I remind you, this topic was made by Indian instead of Vietnamese or Chinese guys, but the insult seems very hot.


sorry, I can´t help but reply to some retards such as S10 and other zombie.
you are a good guy as you have a balanced view.


----------



## beijingwalker

Viet said:


> don´t provoke me to post pictures of Chinese raped and killed by the Japanese, you moron.
> 
> 
> do you feel good when you lick Chinese boots?
> 
> 
> sorry, I can´t help but reply to some retards such as S10 and other zombie.
> you are a good guy as you have a balanced view.



I also have tons of photos of Japan's surrender to China and their war criminals being executed by KMT MP, but what's that have to do with SCS issues


----------



## Mr Second

EastSea said:


> Read here. Its chinese warmonger boy.
> 
> Beijing shows resolve in South China Sea claims


Watched it, The reason I come this forum is someone told me people here are very interesting, and keen on


EastSea said:


> Read here. Its chinese warmonger boy.
> 
> Beijing shows resolve in South China Sea claims


Thx and I've watched. I've looked up many documents in Chinese and Vietnamese about the issue, so neednt give me more. In the research area, Asian countries' relation always plays a hard role regardless for example, the Frence and Germany, Spain and England or Sweden and Russia..., whose struggles have been resolved, while Asian people however, with a further complated history background and endless suspicion, the modus of Europé perhaps cannot be copied, therefore, before a proper method has been found, people should avoid to some stupid.


----------



## beijingwalker

We don't know this guy much, he sounds very pro China. Is he likely to be the next leader of Cambodia?


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Maxtini said:


> Geez~ history is history~
> Nearly 600 years ago Mongols led by Gengis Khan and Kubilai Khan invaded and conquered the whole region including China stretching from Far East to Near East~ A lot of atrocities were also commited, the destruction were unprecedented, leading to the fall of Islamic Civilization.
> 
> I don't think nowadays there are any nation, especially Islamic countries protesting Mongols over their glorification of Gengis Khan and Kubilai Khan~ They even erect statues commemorating their national "hero"!
> 
> As you said, the world is full of wolves and bloodsuckers~
> The strong nation invade weak nation~ that's how it was the norm until after World War II; To be invaded was mere the sign of weaknessses of the invaded countries; China was weak and corrupted, it was a natural consequences of being weak at those times.
> 
> Heck even China invaded Viernam~ Did vietnamese even call for Chinese to apologize?



Most Mongols have now became an ethnic group in China, they are proud of the Chinese identity, so we forget about the past.

We can also forgive Japan, but Japan yet still doesn't give up the dream of conquering China, Thus, we can't become friend with them.

BTW, we didn't invade Vietnam nor we wants their land, the 1979 war was a border conflict.

But Japan always wants our land.


----------



## beijingwalker

Viet said:


> ha ha ha...you are a coward. you are only good at bullying the weak!
> why don´t you post pictures of your warships and laugh at the US?


Why we have to do this, US doesn't claim any islands in SCS but you do.


----------



## Srinivas

China's biggest trading partner is condemning China


----------



## Mr Second

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Most Mongols have now became an ethnic group in China, they are proud of the Chinese identity, so we forget about the past.
> 
> We can also forgive Japan, but Japan yet still doesn't give up the dream of conquering China, Thus, we can't become friend with them.
> 
> BTW, we didn't invade Vietnam nor we wants their land, the 1979 war was a border conflict.
> 
> But Japan always wants our land.


How can 130million people live on 4 islands, where no Resources and earthquake and volanco happen nearly everyday? Since China was very weak in the history, holding a huge area without a suitable Power? Why not Japan invaded China? Japan did try to attack USSR and USA, while result, as we all know. So do you remember what I said? Having fine weapon is not to attack others, but to keep the war away from you.


----------



## beijingwalker

Srinivas said:


> China's biggest trading partner is condemning China



I just check the news and condemn is not a right word.but still,we also condemn US very often.but it doesn't stop us have cordial business relationship.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Srinivas

beijingwalker said:


> I just check the news and condemn is not a right word.but still,we also condemn US very often.but it doesn't stop us have cordial business relationship.



Reason why the statement is a joke. it is the concrete action on the ground by US that will account.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## beijingwalker

Srinivas said:


> Reason why the statement is a joke. it is the concrete action on the ground by US that will account.



google China and US ,most reports are like this


> US says China's fishing curbs 'provocative and potentially dangerous'
> Reuters-9 Jan, 2014
> WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The United States, already at odds with China over that country's air defense zone, said on Thursday that new ...



But any way,we also condemn each other, didn't India just condemn US a while ago because of some diplomatic incident?


----------



## Viva_Viet

kankan326 said:


> Never happened. Vietnam government was not stupid. The move only puts Vietnamese soldiers on other SCS islands in the risk of revenge.
> Stop masturbation.


Never happen ?? dude, this link is from China, u should ask ur own man if it correct or not.
震骇:我南沙南熏礁守军曾被敌特集体端掉?![图] -军事-CHN强国网
南沙自古属中华》系列 南熏疑云_广州飘雪_新浪博客

Vietnam government may not want 11 Chinese troops got killed, but they cant stop our angry men when they seek for revenge



​


----------



## Viva_Viet

cheap news, VN control Camb's military force, no need to say again and again.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viva_Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Well, don't ever try to think like Japan, you will eventually overstretch yourself.


Think like Japan ?? we defeated US when they lost, and we can make Japan's economy collapse within 3 weeks by closing SCS(east sea) too.

Only weak and useless China (lost important island TaiWan to US) worry abt Japan now.without US daddy's protection from 1979 to 1988, China would not even dare to think abt war with VN too


----------



## rott

Viet said:


> mighty neighbor Vietnam


----------



## beijingwalker

You must think that every Chinese died or missing must be killed by Vietnamese, that's so absurd,lol


----------



## Mr Second

beijingwalker said:


> You must think that every Chinese died or missing must be killed by Vietnamese, that's so absurd,lol


I'd rather they were killed by Vietnam army on the battlefield, however, I've read this news before, and after 20 yrs with all the secrets has been released. They maybe probably killed by own people. Those 5 missing people maybe did that. Really shamed on that.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## beijingwalker

Cambodia is always on China's side against Vietnam and The Philippines



> Mighty Vietnma



lol...almost every Chinese province is mightier than Vietnam



> Vietnam GDP:141.7 billion USD (2012)
> 
> China GDP by provinces









MIGHTY Vietnam,lol



> *Defence budget:
> China. $166 billion
> Vietnam $3 billion*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## GR!FF!N

Aint this one just got royal perdon few months back and returned to Combodia???he was facing "Jail" and flee his country few years back.he's not even an "Eligible Candidate" in Election.a wrong choice to quote.


----------



## Daniel808

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Hun Sen hijacked the discussion saying Vietnam & Philippines claim is "absurd and or aggressive." Do you even remember the last meeting in Cambodia or do you suffer from short term memory loss?
> 
> The CoC (Code of Conduct) is Indonesia's brainchild so please do not take credit for it. Maybe its time to admit that Cambodia is not a Vietnam puppet state, but China.



he cannot Realise, that Cambodia will always on China Side on South China Sea Dispute.


Mighty Vietnam LOL
Joke of The day. 
Thanks for make me Laughing today.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Mr Second said:


> How can 130million people live on 4 islands, where no Resources and earthquake and volanco happen nearly everyday? Since China was very weak in the history, holding a huge area without a suitable Power? Why not Japan invaded China? Japan did try to attack USSR and USA, while result, as we all know. So do you remember what I said? Having fine weapon is not to attack others, but to keep the war away from you.



Adding the factor of Fukushima, now they are really concerning about their future.

USA is too far away, while Russia mostly has mostly frozen land.



Viva_Viet said:


> Think like Japan ?? we defeated US when they lost, and we can make Japan's economy collapse within 3 weeks by closing SCS(east sea) too.
> 
> Only weak and useless China (lost important island TaiWan to US) worry abt Japan now.without US daddy's protection from 1979 to 1988, China would not even dare to think abt war with VN too



China needs to set the new order for East Asia, if you wanna be the first touchstone, then go ahead.

PLA needs to bomb your army to see to testify the combat capability of our new weapons.


----------



## Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Hun Sen hijacked the discussion saying Vietnam & Philippines claim is "absurd and or aggressive." Do you even remember the last meeting in Cambodia or do you suffer from short term memory loss?
> 
> *The CoC (Code of Conduct) is Indonesia's brainchild* so please do not take credit for it. Maybe its time to admit that Cambodia is not a Vietnam puppet state, but China.


you are delusional, as usual.



rott said:


>


what is so funny? Cambodia was Vietnam´s vassal under the Nguyen Dynasty. And not only Cambodia, but many others in the region.

_Sinocentrism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In 1815, Gia Long claimed 13 countries as Vietnamese vassals, including Luang Prabang, Vientane, Burma, Tran Ninh Plateau in eastern Laos, and two countries called "Thủy Xá Quốc" and "Hỏa Xá Quốc", which were actually Malayo-Polynesian Jarai tribes living between Vietnam and Thailand._



Daniel808 said:


> he cannot Realise, that Cambodia will always on China Side on South China Sea Dispute.
> 
> 
> Mighty Vietnam LOL
> Joke of The day.
> Thanks for make me Laughing today.


you are another Indonesian who lives in a delusional world. Cambodia has a land border with Vietnam. They know our tanks are faster in Phnom Penh than the Chinese.


----------



## Mr Second

Viet said:


> you are delusional, as usual.
> 
> 
> what is so funny? Cambodia was Vietnam´s vassal under the Nguyen Dynasty. And not only Cambodia, but many others in the region.
> 
> _Sinocentrism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> In 1815, Gia Long claimed 13 countries as Vietnamese vassals, including Luang Prabang, Vientane, Burma, Tran Ninh Plateau in eastern Laos, and two countries called "Thủy Xá Quốc" and "Hỏa Xá Quốc", which were actually Malayo-Polynesian Jarai tribes living between Vietnam and Thailand._
> 
> 
> you are another Indonesian who lives in a delusional world. Cambodia has a land border with Vietnam. They know our tanks are faster in Phnom Penh than the Chinese.


"Quoc Thuy Xa" and "Quoc Hoa Xa"? If I were the king, I'd rather choose the first name

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## beijingwalker

Viet said:


> what is so funny? Cambodia was Vietnam´s vassal under the Nguyen Dynasty. And not only Cambodia, but many others in the region.
> .



If you have to dig that up,don't forget Vietnam was under Chinese rule for over 1000 years.


----------



## eazzy

Hun sen is pro China...


----------



## EastSea

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Adding the factor of Fukushima, now they are really concerning about their future.
> 
> USA is too far away, while Russia mostly has mostly frozen land.
> 
> 
> 
> China needs to set the new order for East Asia, if you wanna be the first touchstone, then go ahead.
> 
> PLA needs to bomb your army to see to testify the combat capability of our new weapons.



so let Japanese controlle you again for peace of Asia.


----------



## Mr Second

EastSea said:


> so let Japanese controlle you again for peace of Asia.


Hey, any joking but not this. I just discussed the reason why japan invaded china. no relation with vns issue. when talking to chinese, i Think including vn, japan is not joking. What did Mister Ho Chi Minh do during WW2


----------



## EastSea

beijingwalker said:


> If you have to dig that up,don't forget Vietnam was under Chinese rule for over 1000 years.



no dig nothing too far, you are rule by Hans now kid. very funny when some boy is very aggressive here to show him suprios chinese lol.



eazzy said:


> Hun sen is pro China...


 he got his lesson, Sam Rainsy do it better. If Sam Rainsy won on last election, Hunsen could escape to China.


----------



## EastSea

Mr Second said:


> Hey, any joking but not this. I just discussed the reason why japan invaded china. no relation with vns issue. when talking to chinese, i Think including vn, japan is not joking. What did Mister Ho Chi Minh do during WW2



My comment is yoke for your countryman troll , whom I quoted, Chinese believe that Chinese rise or "chinese dream" is that to be boss of Asia, what Japanese did in WW II.

What did Ho Chi Minh in WW II ?







The answer is : Just for regain Independence of Vietnam from France-Japan domination.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

EastSea said:


> so let Japanese controlle you again for peace of Asia.



They want, but they don't have the capability.

China will incinerate their entire group if they dare to make any bold move.


----------



## EastSea

beijingwalker said:


> in the last 2,000 years we controlled and administered Vietnam for 1000 years,and that is not a lie.



we kicked Han chinese *** and regained our independence. Man Qing Kanton Governor admitted in the past that Island not belong to China, that is truth.

We have been controled Islands many hundred years ago with out trouble with China. China is just changed his claim from 1948. Hans Chinese are liar.


----------



## Mr Second

EastSea said:


> My comment is yoke for your countryman troll , whom I quoted, Chinese believe that Chinese rise or "chinese dream" is that to be boss of Asia, what Japanese did in WW II.
> 
> What did Ho Chi Minh in WW II ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The answer is : Just for regain Independence of Vietnam from France-Japan domination.


So let's Japan controll vn again for the Peace of Asia. hear that you feeling good?



EastSea said:


> My comment is yoke for your countryman troll , whom I quoted, Chinese believe that Chinese rise or "chinese dream" is that to be boss of Asia, what Japanese did in WW II.
> 
> What did Ho Chi Minh in WW II ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The answer is : Just for regain Independence of Vietnam from France-Japan domination.


Respect is from each other. same same


----------



## eazzy

But Gia Long said you were Han people. 

Vietnam has a sad destiny : Being a vassal state. At least it's a sad truth for those who want Vietnam to become a superpower, going to bed thinking about a powerful and advanced Vietnam...but if you don't care about it, if you just live your life and die, you'll be happier.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> They want, but they don't have the capability.
> 
> China will incinerate their entire group if they dare to make any bold move.



They moved, Military budget incised and legislation law will be modify.


----------



## Mr Second

EastSea said:


> They moved, Military budget incised and legislation law will be modify.


I know China and VN having issue problem now, but even the spokeman of VN government Mr Luong Thanh Yi, who represent the Socialist Republic of Vietnam still announced: Japan should do those what can make Asia peaceful! Who are you? I said Japan is the deadline! Shamed on such Vietnamese!


----------



## EastSea

Mr Second said:


> So let's Japan controll vn again for the Peace of Asia. hear that you feeling good?
> 
> 
> Respect is from each other. same same



Today, only China would like repeat what Japanese did in WW II, not Japan.



Mr Second said:


> I know China and VN having issue problem now, but even the spokeman of VN government Mr Luong Thanh Yi, who represent the Socialist Republic of Vietnam still announced:* Japan should do those what can make Asia peaceful! *Who are you? I said Japan is the deadline! Shamed on such Vietnamese!



could you provide the source ?


----------



## EastSea

eazzy said:


> But Gia Long said you were Han people.
> 
> Vietnam has a sad destiny : Being a vassal state. At least it's a sad truth for those who want Vietnam to become a superpower, going to bed thinking about a powerful and advanced Vietnam...but if you don't care about it, if you just live your life and die, you'll be happier.



there is wrong interpretation of Concept "Han-Man" by historian. In fact this concept is written in Han Ji (Han Character} is focus on the meaning of majority and minority people in Vietnam. 

Vietnamese claimed themselves as "Ke Cho", translated as Kochin in middle East or south Asia language and Jiao Zhi in Chinese.


----------



## Mr Second

EastSea said:


> Today, only China would like repeat what Japanese did in WW II, not Japan.
> 
> 
> 
> could you provide the source ?


【首相靖国参拝】領有権では日本に連携も　参拝問題で解決求める　ベトナム - MSN産経ニュース


----------



## Mr Second

EastSea said:


> Today, only China would like repeat what Japanese did in WW II, not Japan.
> 
> 
> 
> could you provide the source ?


韩政府谴责日本总务相参拜靖国神社



EastSea said:


> Today, only China would like repeat what Japanese did in WW II, not Japan.
> 
> 
> 
> could you provide the source ?


韩国国会外交统一委通过决议谴责安倍拜鬼



EastSea said:


> Today, only China would like repeat what Japanese did in WW II, not Japan.
> 
> 
> 
> could you provide the source ?


PM’s Yasukuni visit deals blow to Japanese-US ties - OP-ED - Globaltimes.cn



EastSea said:


> Today, only China would like repeat what Japanese did in WW II, not Japan.
> 
> 
> 
> could you provide the source ?


中国强烈谴责安倍拜鬼--国际--人民网


----------



## Mr Second

EastSea said:


> Today, only China would like repeat what Japanese did in WW II, not Japan.
> 
> 
> 
> could you provide the source ?


The attitudes of Vietnam, China, Korea and USA are all of here!!! If you Think to talk Japans invade China or Japans WW2 history is very funny or interesting, please take a Japanese flag and go to Vietnam, China, Korea and USA's local embassy or consulate now, waving the flag and shouting"てんのうへいか，ばんざい！"(TenNouHeika，BanZai！) Let us see what will happen! You are a Vietnamese who even hasnt the basic history knowledge! Dont talk with me again!


----------



## Mr Second

EastSea said:


> Today, only China would like repeat what Japanese did in WW II, not Japan.
> 
> 
> 
> could you provide the source ?


 I WILL SHOW YOU WHICH FLAG! SEE CLEAR! TAKE THIS! YOU SHOULD READ MORE BOOK AND OPEN YOUR EYE, GO TO OTHER COUNTRY TO HAVE A LOOK!








EastSea said:


> Today, only China would like repeat what Japanese did in WW II, not Japan.
> 
> 
> 
> could you provide the source ?


Even the those Japanese who love Peace, they still take the protest! This is a protest Concert!


----------



## Mr Second

EastSea said:


> Today, only China would like repeat what Japanese did in WW II, not Japan.
> 
> 
> 
> could you provide the source ?


French Indochina in World War II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Without the help from China and Allies Army, without the Vietnam's win in WW2! Today, WITHOUT any offence! You said "so let Japanese controlle you again for peace of Asia."(you=China).


----------



## Mr Second

eazzy said:


> But Gia Long said you were Han people.
> 
> Vietnam has a sad destiny : Being a vassal state. At least it's a sad truth for those who want Vietnam to become a superpower, going to bed thinking about a powerful and advanced Vietnam...but if you don't care about it, if you just live your life and die, you'll be happier.


No need to say more. I'm very angry this guys attitude to japans history in WW2. He even claimed "so let Japanese controlle China again for peace of Asia." You come from France, How about France in WW2? Is it funny or joking? Stupid!


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Viet said:


> you are delusional, as usual.
> 
> 
> 
> .



Coming from a guy that still believe its country still own Cambodia & believe that Hun Sen is Pro Vietnam, who's more delusional do you think?



> you are another Indonesian who lives in a delusional world. Cambodia has a land border with Vietnam. They know our tanks are faster in Phnom Penh than the Chinese.



You know what else is even faster? Chinese retaliation against Vietnam for Aggression against Cambodia.


----------



## beijingwalker

China drummed up a a lot of tension in East Sea,but they are all eyewash, China's navy priority is always on the South China Sea.



> *PLA's new naval deployment focused on South China Sea*
> Chang Kai-sheng and Staff Reporter
> 2014-01-12 09:00 (GMT+8)
> 
> China commissioned 17 new naval vessels since 2013, with many joining the South Sea Fleet, indicating that the superpower is placing more emphasis on the disputed region, according to military experts.
> 
> Guangzhou's Southern Metropolis Daily reported that China had deployed "relatively more" vessels among the 17 for the Guangdong-based South Sea Fleet, one of the country's three naval fleets.
> 
> Li Jie, a researcher at the Naval Military Art Studies Institute, said that it was necessary for China to focus more on the South China Sea's sizeable maritime area through frequent maneuvers and to enhance its claims in the area.
> 
> "Within a short time, the South China Sea will be the Chinese Navy's focal area for deploying new vessels and to protect the country's rights," he said, citing the example of the Sanya frigate that joined the force last year.
> 
> The area under the South Sea Fleet's control starts from the north of the Taiwan Strait and extends to the south to James Shoal, covering the Paracel and Spratly islands as well as Macclesfield Bank.
> 
> Over the past year, China has replenished its naval power by commissioning a 051A multi-role warship, a 056 light warship, a 052C destroyer and a 903A supply ship.
> 
> The development of Chinese military technology was the major reason behind the "great improvement" in the country's naval deployment, Li stated.
> 
> Based on its economic and technological developments, China has had little difficulty in overcoming the technical problems stemming from its military and shipbuilding industries, he added.
> 
> Li Fanglai, deputy head of a society dedicated to maritime culture, said it was essential that the PLA Navy develop its hardwaret. "China has to build a strong military force to go with its superpower status," he added.


----------



## EastSea

Mr Second said:


> The attitudes of Vietnam, China, Korea and USA are all of here!!! If you Think to talk Japans invade China or Japans WW2 history is very funny or interesting, please take a Japanese flag and go to Vietnam, China, Korea and USA's local embassy or consulate now, waving the flag and shouting"てんのうへいか，ばんざい！"(TenNouHeika，BanZai！) Let us see what will happen! You are a Vietnamese who even hasnt the basic history knowledge! *Dont talk with me again!*



I think you don't understood my comment No 3558 and and so you didn't answered my question. if you do not quote my comment I will ignore you.


----------



## S10

Viet said:


> don´t provoke me to post pictures of Chinese raped and killed by the Japanese, you moron.
> 
> 
> do you feel good when you lick Chinese boots?
> 
> 
> sorry, I can´t help but reply to some retards such as S10 and other zombie.
> you are a good guy as you have a balanced view.


Don't like it? Tell you fellow monkey not to post his daydreams as "facts" on here then. The difference is I can proved we sunk a boatload of monkeys in 1988.



Viva_Viet said:


> With US daddy's help China burned our ship, when the daddy left his bad son high and dry, in 1990 , 11 Chinese troops got riddled by hundred bullets and all what corrputed China leader could do was only sit and watch


Do you have any proof or is this more of your masturbatory fantasy? A lie repeated a thousand time is still a lie.

Meanwhile, this is what truth looks like:

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## shuttler

Viva_Viet said:


> I never said any word in any topic related to ur cheap ADIZ bcz its too cheap to discuss abt.



This is what you said in post 48: werent those cheap shots coming from you?



> *Bcz we dont want our commercial planes to have any problem when flying through the conflict zone between China-Japan, thats all.*
> 
> *Ur ADIZ means Nothing, Korea-Japan jet figher still patrol there, and u dare not stop them, nothing happen.*
> 
> *Its u who have to learn geopolitics . Do u know why Soviet union supported VN to conquer Laos-Camb and even Thailand in 1979 ?? bez if we can unify the sub-Mekong region, then we can help Soviet to become greater and more powerful. Mr Putin also have the same idea with Soviet's plan in South east asian , thats why he support VN against China now, and he will send more support to help VN to unify sub-Mekong region in the future.*



*



When VN can unify that region, then China will be pegged between 2 Giants Russia-Sub Mekong region, ur future is so doom, dude 

Click to expand...

*



Viva_Viet said:


> Russia support VN in SCS(east sea) against China, do u know that ??


they will saying anything to make a buck trying to sell weapons to VN at ripoff prices!


----------



## Grand Historian

eazzy said:


> But Gia Long said you were Han people.
> 
> Vietnam has a sad destiny : Being a vassal state. At least it's a sad truth for those who want Vietnam to become a superpower, going to bed thinking about a powerful and advanced Vietnam...but if you don't care about it, if you just live your life and die, you'll be happier.


You are correct during the Nguyen dynasty the Vietnamese elites viewed themselves as "Han".

The Nguyen dynasty worshiped Chinese deities,sages and kings.
The Nguyễn Dynasty’s Miếu Lịch Đại Đế Vương | Le Minh Khai's SEAsian History Blog

The funny thing is that tributaries/vassal states try to invent a prestigious past either by claiming Chinese inventions/people/dynaties etc as their own or downright fabricating a history that predates the Chinese.


----------



## Viet

Mr Second said:


> "*Quoc* Thuy Xa" and "*Quoc* Hoa Xa"? If I were the king, I'd rather choose the first name


I´m amazed by your good Viet language. We call China/ Middle Land as "Trung *Quoc*". So the word Quoc (nation or country) stands as second in the word order.



Mr Second said:


> I know China and VN having issue problem now, but even the spokeman of VN government Mr Luong Thanh Yi, who represent the Socialist Republic of Vietnam still announced:* Japan should do those what can make Asia peaceful!* Who are you? I said Japan is the deadline! Shamed on such Vietnamese!


where is the source? I don´t believe it.


----------



## Viet

Grand Historian said:


> You are correct during the Nguyen dynasty the Vietnamese elites viewed themselves as "*Han*".
> 
> The Nguyen dynasty worshiped Chinese deities,sages and kings.
> The Nguyễn Dynasty’s Miếu Lịch Đại Đế Vương | Le Minh Khai's SEAsian History Blog
> 
> The funny thing is that tributaries/*vassal states* try to invent a prestigious past either by claiming Chinese inventions/people/dynaties etc as their own or downright fabricating a history that predates the Chinese.


that is your view not mine. As you know, first, Han people do not mean Chinese in China. I´ve learned from a Chinese member, the term "Han" is more a cultural umbrella than a definition of ethnics. The Vietnamese elites under the Nguyen dynasty saw themselves as Han, they did not say they were Chinese. That is the difference. Vietnam was and is still a confucism state.

Second, for almost 1,000 years (many Chinese members here on the forum like to mention it at every opportunity), VN had been a province, a part of Imperial China, the Viet/Yue people were Chinese. So being a Chinese means Chinese. People in Jiaozhi (Vietnam) were no difference to the ones of Canton or Beijing. 1,000 years! that period is longer than history of most countries in the world today. Even after being as independent nation in year 939, under the first ruler of Ngo dynasty, Vietnamese have kept this as part of their identities till today. As for vassal state, Vietnam paid tributes, but never followed orders from China.

Third, as you mentioned it, the myth the creation of Vietnam, Hung Vuong, is indeed disputed.

If theoretically Taiwan declares independent, the Taiwanese will become to what the Viets today.

a little bit off-topic


----------



## Viet

you quote from a Taiwanese source? lol
where are your warships? even your sole carrier returned to home port in the East China Sea. The only thing I see is Your state media reports Chinese ethnic artists are coming to Hanoi to boost cultural ties with Vietnam.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Grand Historian

Viet said:


> that is your view not mine. As you know, first, Han people do not mean Chinese in China. I´ve learned from a Chinese member, the term "Han" is more a cultural umbrella than a definition of ethnics. The Vietnamese elites under the Nguyen dynasty saw themselves as Han, they did not say they were Chinese. That is the difference. Vietnam was and is still a confucism state.
> 
> Second, for almost 1,000 years (many Chinese members here on the forum like to mention it at every opportunity), VN had been a province, a part of Imperial China, the Viet/Yue people were Chinese. So being a Chinese means Chinese. People in Jiaozhi (Vietnam) were no difference to the ones of Canton or Beijing. 1,000 years! that period is longer than history of most countries in the world today. Even after being as independent nation in year 939, under the first ruler of Ngo dynasty, Vietnamese have kept this as part of their identities till today. As for vassal state, Vietnam paid tributes, but never followed orders from China.
> 
> Third, as you mentioned it, the myth the creation of Vietnam, Hung Vuong, is indeed disputed.
> 
> If theoretically Taiwan declares independent, the Taiwanese will become to what the Viets today.
> 
> a little bit off-topic


Han was a ethnoym of the Sinitic speakers in the central plains ever since the Northern Wei,for the Tang it was applied that Han meant the Tang dynasty while Fan are foreign states though not in the sense of ethnicity but nationality,during the Ming it was applied to both Northern and Southern Chinese,and the Qing made "Han" the official term for the Sinitic people they conquered while Hua was applied to Manchus and other minorities.

What I'm trying to establish is that Han was used to mean either as a toponym(Central Plains),the common Chinese man(regardless of ethnicty) or the native Sinitic speakers.

The Nguyen were identifying themselves as "Chinese" in culture.

For more information about the Han ethnicity read:

Critical Han Studies: The History, Representation, and Identity of China's Majority

Becoming Zhong Guo,Becoming Han: Tracing and Re-conceptualizing in Ancient Northern China , 770 B.C.- A.D. 581

Fan and Han: The Origins and Uses of a Conceptual Dichotomy in Mid-Imperial China,ca. 500-1200 


No,it is unknown what ethonym the non Sinitic speakers of Southern China called themselves,they differed in language family and often warred with each other.

Furthermore the people of Northern Vietnam called themselves and were written as men of Jiao Zhi/Giao Chi they did not reuse the term Yue whether it be 越 or 粵 as an ethonym.

Despite the misconception that Vietnam was always struggling to break away from Chinese rule there was periods of relative peace such as rule by Shi Xie,so Northern Vietnamese only rebelled when there was a harsh governor,the regions of Guangxi and Guangdong were not pacified and heavily settled with Chinese until Tang.

Even Ly Bi called his kingdom Wan Quan/Van Xuan not Dai Viet,hell the Cantonese state of Southern Han was previously named Da Yue.

You should realize that the Vietnamese language has a lot of native Vietnamese words(I'm not talking about Sino-Vietnamese) that are Chinese in origin one theory is that Northern Vietnamese switched from a Sinitic language to a Muong language

Laqured Words : The Evolution of Vietnamese Under Sinitic Influences From the 1st Century BCE Through the 17th Century CE


There is no dispute,there is absolutely no historical or archaeological proof to back up the Xich Quy or Van Lang existence

I still find it hilarious how some Vietnamese use it as an excuse that they owned Southern China or that China was influenced by Vietnam.

The problem with your analogy is that the overwhelmingly majority of the ethnic Han population of Taiwan are descendants of those that migrated either during the Qing as farmers/merchants or arrived later due to the KMT fleeing to Taiwan.

Furthermore the theory that Taiwanese Han are actually sinicized aborigines is a minority view.

Since I can't post links to sources due to insufficient permissions, pm me if you need them.


----------



## Viet

grand historician, thank for your post. that explains me a bit more.

I read in a book over the history of China that the Manchus or Qing followed a very racism policy after they defeated the Ming. The Manchus rulers demanded as a sign of submission that all Han men had to shave their heads. Further they forbade mixed marriages between the native Manchus and Hans, and even any settlement into their homeland of Manchuria. The Qing failure to support and protect Vietnam in the 19 century when France attempted to conquer Vietnam was a major historic mistake. When Vietnam fell in 1874, the days of the Qings were numbered.

As for VN, it has been always very problematic in dealing with China. If Vietnamese rulers followed Chinese rules, their legitimacy was in question, and sooner or later, the emperor would be dethroned, for instance the _Emperor Lê Chiêu Thống_. So what Vietnamese rulers did was they officially submitted as vassal of China and agreed to pay tribute, but remained independent from Chinese commands.

Ten Great Campaigns - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Campaign in Vietnam (1788–1789)
_Chinese officials receiving the deposed Vietnamese Emperor Lê Chiêu Thống_


----------



## Mr Second

Viet said:


> I´m amazed by your good Viet language. We call China/ Middle Land as "Trung *Quoc*". So the word Quoc (nation or country) stands as second in the word order.
> 
> 
> where is the source? I don´t believe it.


I cant copy the link since my class is too low. But you can copy that in Google and the first link is what you need. The key Word is "越南回应安倍参拜靖国神社吁日本妥善处理".



Viet said:


> I´m amazed by your good Viet language. We call China/ Middle Land as "Trung *Quoc*". So the word Quoc (nation or country) stands as second in the word order.
> 
> 
> where is the source? I don´t believe it.


Before the New Year, Chinese Minister of Foreign Affair Wang Yi and Vietnamese Minister of Foreign Affair Pham Binh Minh made a phone call, the two ministers unifieded the attitude of two countries to the issue of Japanese Prime Minister Shinze Abe making the official visit to Yasukuni Shrine. The next day, when the Spokeman of Socialist Republic of Vietnam Luong Thanh Nghi had stated that opinion when answered the quesition of the journalist of Japan's Kyodo News.


----------



## Mr Second

Viet said:


> I´m amazed by your good Viet language. We call China/ Middle Land as "Trung *Quoc*". So the word Quoc (nation or country) stands as second in the word order.
> 
> 
> where is the source? I don´t believe it.


About Viet Language, I can tell you it is a language in my daily Life, and I absolutly know "giai thich cua "Quoc" la Quoc Gia", The reason I put the namn at the first is the respect of Viet custom now, and I Think you can understand. Anyway, any stupid discussion can be talked in the forum, whatever how hot the insult is, or just a joking, no problem. However, the Japan and China's history should not on the joking list. Thang 11, Nam 1946, when the French army landed the Haiphong City, they killed over 6000 Vietnam civilians. I Think it is a serious, also no funny.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Coming from a guy that still believe its country still own Cambodia & believe that Hun Sen is Pro Vietnam, who's more delusional do you think?
> 
> You know what else is even faster? *Chinese retaliation *against Vietnam for Aggression against Cambodia.


I am not aware but can you tell me since when you indonesians start to lick chinese boots?
if any Cambodia is a field where Vietnam and China fight for control. Indonesia has no stake here.
Hun Sen was installed by Vietnam after the defeat of Khmer Rouge, and he is still in power today. Even his oposition leader Rainsy calls Hun Sen as a puppet of Vietnam.



Mr Second said:


> I cant copy the link since my class is too low. But you can copy that in Google and the first link is what you need. The key Word is "越南回应安倍参拜靖国神社吁日本妥善处理".
> 
> 
> Before the New Year, Chinese Minister of Foreign Affair Wang Yi and Vietnamese Minister of Foreign Affair Pham Binh Minh made a phone call, the two ministers unifieded the attitude of two countries to the issue of Japanese Prime Minister Shinze Abe making the official visit to Yasukuni Shrine. The next day, when the Spokeman of Socialist Republic of Vietnam Luong Thanh Nghi had stated that opinion when answered the quesition of the journalist of Japan's Kyodo News.


I´m afraid something is missing. here is the official announcement:

Vietnam expresses concerns, urges Japan to handle issue properly
Vietnamese Foreign Ministry spokesperson, Luong Thanh Nghi, has said Hanoi hopes Tokyo to handle the issue properly in a bid to maintain regional stability and cooperation. This is the first time Hanoi has responded to such visits in years.

Vietnam expresses concerns, urges Japan to handle issue properly CCTV News - CNTV English

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Viet said:


> I am not aware but can you tell me since when you indonesians start to lick chinese boots?
> if any Cambodia is a field where Vietnam and China fight for control. Indonesia has no stake here.
> Hun Sen was installed by Vietnam after the defeat of Khmer Rouge, and he is still in power today. Even his oposition leader Rainsy calls Hun Sen as a puppet of Vietnam.



Action speaks louder than word & his action is not consistent to what you claimed him to be. Just because your country put him to power doesn't mean he will do what you says to the letter. Just take a quick glance at any history book & you will find numerous example. Because you have comprehension problem Hun Sen himself hijacked the last meeting calling Vietnam claim absurd. Rainsy is a demagogue that uses the "V-word" in order to rile up anti Vietnamese sentiment in order to get vote.



> During his speech, Mr. Rainsy again used anti-Vietnamese rhetoric, and repeatedly referred to the Vietnamese and Vietnam as “yuon,” a word some consider derogatory to describe the Vietnamese.
> 
> “It [Vietnam] goes and invades everywhere, and it steals land from Cambodians because the illegal government is a puppet of yuon,” he said in his speech.
> 
> “*The islands belong to China*, but yuon is trying to occupy [the islands] from China, because *yuon is very bad*,” Mr. Rainsy said.



If you take his word seriously you just admit that your kind the "*Yuon*" is very bad.

When will you stop with your delusion of grandeur? Cambodia is in China's camp since Pol Pot's era not the Vietnamese.


----------



## Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Action speaks louder than word & his action is not consistent to what you claimed him to be. Just because your country put him to power doesn't mean he will do what you says to the letter. Just take a quick glance at any history book & you will find numerous example. Because you have comprehension problem Hun Sen himself hijacked the last meeting calling Vietnam claim absurd. Rainsy is a demagogue that uses the "V-word" in order to rile up anti Vietnamese sentiment in order to get vote.
> 
> If you take his word seriously you just admit that your kind the "*Yuon*" is very bad.
> 
> When will you stop with your *delusion of grandeur*? Cambodia is in China's camp since Pol Pot's era not the Vietnamese.


You should look from a neutral distance to understand the situation.

It is no secret that China is behind the fool Rainsy. He plays the racial card, he is dangerous, but luckily he has not the backing of the majority of Cambodians, and more importantly he has not the support from the army and police forces. Everybody knows China tries to buy Cambodia, $2bn loans and grants are a strong argument. Hun Sen thanked the Chinese by sabotaging the last ASEAN summit. Hun Sen has many faces. He was trained in Vietnam, and he speaks Vietnamese. Sure, historcially Cambodia as a whole wants to stay neutral, but it is impossible as its mighty neighbors China, Vietnam and a century ago Thailand want to hijack the country for their purposes.

And again, this event was just one of the many moves China and Vietnam played and will make in this high stakes poker game. Don´t overrate one single event. Chinese now say they want to negotiate the Code of Conduct. If you believe to their words, you are just naive.

The game is not decided. Moreover Vietnam holds stronger cards. You will see what I mean. Hun Sen just visited Vietnam as he faced difficulties at home, why doesn´t he visit China? and surprisingly Vietnam PM is visiting Cambodia today. I am just realistic, far from delusion of grandeur. Cambodia is on the crossroad, either it slips towards to a chaos like Thailand or turns to a police state.

Or, again, Vietnam will be forced to step in and restore law and order. This time with international backing.

Vietnamese PM to visit Cambodia - Xinhua | English.news.cn

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viva_Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Action speaks louder than word & his action is not consistent to what you claimed him to be. Just because your country put him to power doesn't mean he will do what you says to the letter. Just take a quick glance at any history book & you will find numerous example. Because you have comprehension problem Hun Sen himself hijacked the last meeting calling Vietnam claim absurd. Rainsy is a demagogue that uses the "V-word" in order to rile up anti Vietnamese sentiment in order to get vote.
> .


Viet is right, Cambodia army never support anti-VN party. 







> Lt. Gen. Meas Sophea, Deputy chief of the general staff widely believed as a Vietnamese national, Meas Sophea has a strong connection with Hun Sen.* His father was known to be a north Vietnamese (*Vietcong) Colonel. He played a major role during the 5-6 July coup.


Do u know which position of Mr Gen. Meas Sophea now ??



beijingwalker said:


> If you have to dig that up,don't forget Vietnam was under Chinese rule for over 1000 years.


this is fake history to make cheap Chinese happy, u have no video clip or picture to prove it. In fact , we killed ur cheap PLA so easily in 1979 and pushed u back in few weeks just by basic trainning women millitia forces.


----------



## eazzy

Now this is the stupid. No video ? Genius...

Now this is the stupid. No video ? Genius...


----------



## Viva_Viet

eazzy said:


> Now this is the stupid. No video ? Genius...
> 
> Now this is the stupid. No video ? Genius...


How can u now that history is correct when no video capture it ??


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Viet said:


> You should look from a neutral distance to understand the situation.
> 
> It is no secret that China is behind the fool Rainsy. He plays the racial card, he is dangerous, but luckily he has not the backing of the majority of Cambodians, and more importantly he has not the support from the army and police forces. Everybody knows China tries to buy Cambodia, $2bn loans and grants are a strong argument. Hun Sen thanked the Chinese by sabotaging the last ASEAN summit. Hun Sen has many faces. He was trained in Vietnam, and he speaks Vietnamese. Sure, historcially Cambodia as a whole wants to stay neutral, but it is impossible as its mighty neighbors China, Vietnam and a century ago Thailand want to hijack the country for their purposes.
> 
> And again, this event was just one of the many moves China and Vietnam played and will make in this high stakes poker game. Don´t overrate one single event. Chinese now say they want to negotiate the Code of Conduct. If you believe to their words, you are just naive.
> 
> The game is not decided. Moreover Vietnam holds stronger cards. You will see what I mean. Hun Sen just visited Vietnam as he faced difficulties at home, why doesn´t he visit China? and surprisingly Vietnam PM is visiting Cambodia today. I am just realistic, far from delusion of grandeur. Cambodia is on the crossroad, either it slips towards to a chaos like Thailand or turns to a police state.
> 
> Or, again, Vietnam will be forced to step in and restore law and order. This time with international backing.
> 
> Vietnamese PM to visit Cambodia - Xinhua | English.news.cn



I'm Indonesian if anything I'm as Neutral as humanly possible. Perhaps the word you're looking is Objective. It is you who should be Neutral. 

Are You serious? 








> It is no secret that China is behind the fool Rainsy.



Hun Sen is already in China's pocket. Why in hell do the Chinese need to back Rainsy which want to abolish the Totalitarian 1 Party state & trying to introduce democracy! If Sam Rainsy get any backing from its probably from the Western Power because he was educated there. Most probably the French. 

So Hun Sen went to Vietnam? Idi Amin used to visit a couple of places in the West until he went full Soviet. Abe also visit ASEAN do you actually believe he's gonna move ASEAN to support him? Once again delusion of Grandeur. If Hun Sen is really your puppet as you claim it to be or "friend" or whatever you want him to be. Then why did he not support you in your desperate hour? The answer for that is simple he's a Chinese puppet. Don't make mistake that was no small event that was THE event. For the first time since ASEAN founding there's no consensus & when have you heard a supposed ally or the puppet of a country publicly denounce its friend or overlord in an international meeting? 

For example its like Israel publicly denounce the US. So it's a kind of a big deal that need to be noted.

Whatever Hun Sen was he's now belong to the Chinese.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Snomannen

* @Grand Historian*

Hello GrandHistorian, have you read the article (about how Vietnam mistook China's islands to theirs) I handed to you few weeks ago? I tried to translate some of the main points, but lack the language skill. 





EastSea said:


> we kicked Han chinese *** and regained our independence. Man Qing Kanton Governor admitted in the past that Island not belong to China, that is truth.
> 
> We have been controled Islands many hundred years ago with out trouble with China. China is just changed his claim from 1948. Hans Chinese are liar.



The islands you have been owning for hundred years are nothing related to 西沙＆南沙 and China never changed their claim.

[Man Qing Kanton Governor admitted in the past that Island not belong to China]
Reference?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Fsjal

Funny how Vietnamese thinks Cambodia is their puppet, just because they installed a sh*tty communist government in 1979.

Typical Vietnamese boasting. They think they are world power just because they "control" Cambodia and Laos, two sh*thole nations.


----------



## Rechoice

Mr Second said:


> 韩政府谴责日本总务相参拜靖国神社
> 
> 
> 韩国国会外交统一委通过决议谴责安倍拜鬼
> 
> 
> PM’s Yasukuni visit deals blow to Japanese-US ties - OP-ED - Globaltimes.cn
> 
> 
> 中国强烈谴责安倍拜鬼--国际--人民网



Your link in English didn't mentioned about what Luong Thanh Nghi said as you stated in your early comment.


----------



## Viva_Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> I'm Indonesian if anything I'm as Neutral as humanly possible. Perhaps the word you're looking is Objective. It is you who should be Neutral.
> 
> Are You serious?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hun Sen is already in China's pocket. Why in hell do the Chinese need to back Rainsy which want to abolish the Totalitarian 1 Party state & trying to introduce democracy! If Sam Rainsy get any backing from its probably from the Western Power because he was educated there. Most probably the French.
> 
> So Hun Sen went to Vietnam? Idi Amin used to visit a couple of places in the West until he went full Soviet. Abe also visit ASEAN do you actually believe he's gonna move ASEAN to support him? Once again delusion of Grandeur. If Hun Sen is really your puppet as you claim it to be or "friend" or whatever you want him to be. Then why did he not support you in your desperate hour? The answer for that is simple he's a Chinese puppet. Don't make mistake that was no small event that was THE event. For the first time since ASEAN founding there's no consensus & when have you heard a supposed ally or the puppet of a country publicly denounce its friend or overlord in an international meeting?
> 
> For example its like Israel publicly denounce the US. So it's a kind of a big deal that need to be noted.
> 
> Whatever Hun Sen was he's now belong to the Chinese.


Indonesia dont even have an important location like Cambodia, dont try to lie. No one care abt ur country.


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Viva_Viet said:


> Indonesia dont even have an important location like Cambodia, dont try to lie. No one care abt ur country.



Beat it commie, you are beneath me.


----------



## Grand Historian

KirovAirship said:


> * @Grand Historian*
> Hello GrandHistorian, have you read the article (about how Vietnam mistook China's islands to theirs) I handed to you few weeks ago? I tried to translate some of the main points, but lack the language skill.


Sorry,I forgot about the article you showed me.

I will translate in my spare time,so far I got the first page done would you prefer me to post my translations in increments or all at once?

Viet,I have to reread the Manchu Way and A Translucent Mirror so I'll respond to your post after a couple of days.


----------



## Kyle Sun

There is a word :dependency ! 

Check the old VIE history book , you might think it is a chinese history book.


----------



## EastSea

Grand Historian said:


> Han was a ethnoym of the Sinitic speakers in the central plains ever since the Northern Wei,for the Tang it was applied that Han meant the Tang dynasty while Fan are foreign states though not in the sense of ethnicity but nationality,during the Ming it was applied to both Northern and Southern Chinese,and the Qing made "Han" the official term for the Sinitic people they conquered while Hua was applied to Manchus and other minorities.
> 
> What I'm trying to establish is that Han was used to mean either as a toponym(Central Plains),the common Chinese man(regardless of ethnicty) or the native Sinitic speakers.
> 
> The Nguyen were identifying themselves as "Chinese" in culture.
> 
> For more information about the Han ethnicity read:
> 
> Critical Han Studies: The History, Representation, and Identity of China's Majority
> 
> Becoming Zhong Guo,Becoming Han: Tracing and Re-conceptualizing in Ancient Northern China , 770 B.C.- A.D. 581
> 
> Fan and Han: The Origins and Uses of a Conceptual Dichotomy in Mid-Imperial China,ca. 500-1200
> 
> 
> No,it is unknown what ethonym the non Sinitic speakers of Southern China called themselves,they differed in language family and often warred with each other.
> 
> Furthermore the people of Northern Vietnam called themselves and were written as men of Jiao Zhi/Giao Chi they did not reuse the term Yue whether it be 越 or 粵 as an ethonym.
> 
> Despite the misconception that Vietnam was always struggling to break away from Chinese rule there was periods of relative peace such as rule by Shi Xie,so Northern Vietnamese only rebelled when there was a harsh governor,the regions of Guangxi and Guangdong were not pacified and heavily settled with Chinese until Tang.
> 
> Even Ly Bi called his kingdom Wan Quan/Van Xuan not Dai Viet,hell the Cantonese state of Southern Han was previously named Da Yue.
> 
> You should realize that the Vietnamese language has a lot of native Vietnamese words(I'm not talking about Sino-Vietnamese) that are Chinese in origin one theory is that Northern Vietnamese switched from a Sinitic language to a Muong language
> 
> Laqured Words : The Evolution of Vietnamese Under Sinitic Influences From the 1st Century BCE Through the 17th Century CE
> 
> 
> There is no dispute,there is absolutely no historical or archaeological proof to back up the Xich Quy or Van Lang existence
> 
> I still find it hilarious how some Vietnamese use it as an excuse that they owned Southern China or that China was influenced by Vietnam.
> 
> The problem with your analogy is that the overwhelmingly majority of the ethnic Han population of Taiwan are descendants of those that migrated either during the Qing as farmers/merchants or arrived later due to the KMT fleeing to Taiwan.
> 
> Furthermore the theory that Taiwanese Han are actually sinicized aborigines is a minority view.
> 
> Since I can't post links to sources due to insufficient permissions, pm me if you need them.



we kicked you ***, chinese invaders. and regained our independence from China, its clear.

Taiwan was independence state, Farmosa Republic until year 1700 AD. Taiwan will declare his independence soon.



KirovAirship said:


> * @Grand Historian*
> 
> Hello GrandHistorian, have you read the article (about how Vietnam mistook China's islands to theirs) I handed to you few weeks ago? I tried to translate some of the main points, but lack the language skill.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The islands you have been owning for hundred years are nothing related to 西沙＆南沙 and China never changed their claim.
> 
> [Man Qing Kanton Governor admitted in the past that Island not belong to China]
> Reference?



check your history, kid. what Canton Governor said in 1898 ? when Japanese cargo ship Imezi Maru and German cargo ship Bellona cargo ship were robbed in Paracel by Chinese sea pirates.

He said: "Parasel Islands not belong to Chia".


----------



## Grand Historian

EastSea said:


> we kicked you ***, chinese invaders. and regained our independence from China, its clear.
> 
> Taiwan was independence state, Farmosa Republic until year 1700 AD. Taiwan will declare his independence soon.


Xich Quy,Van Lang and Hung Kings didn't exist,until you provide sources the point is moot.

As I stated before there was no sense of Vietnamese prior to the Han annexation,the people of Jiaozhi didn't call identify themselves as Yue.

Many native Vietnamese words are actually Sinictic in origin.

Even Ly Bi named his kingdom Van Xuan not Dai Viet

Your lack of historical knowledge is appalling,Taiwan was never united under a single aborigine tribe even the Dutch couldn't manage their new colony until they hired Fujianese farmers and merchants.

The first Chinese regime was founded by Zheng Chengong then it was destroyed by the Qing in 1683.

If Vietnamese people hated Chinese so much why did the Ngyuen dynasty worship Chinese sages/kings and call themselves Han?

No,Taiwan would not dare go independent unless it wants to be obliterated.
.


----------



## Snomannen

EastSea said:


> check your history, kid. what Canton Governor said in 1898 ? when Japanese cargo ship Imezi Maru and German cargo ship Bellona cargo ship were robbed in Paracel by Chinese sea pirates.
> 
> He said: "Parasel Islands not belong to Chia".



All I know is that the Guangdong government used to send battleship to inspect Xisha and build statues over those islands



Grand Historian said:


> Sorry,I forgot about the article you showed me.
> 
> I will translate in my spare time,so far I got the first page done would you prefer me to post my translations in increments or all at once?
> 
> Viet,I have to reread the Manchu Way and A Translucent Mirror so I'll respond to your post after a couple of days.



Thank you so much~


----------



## Mr Second

Rechoice said:


> Your link in English didn't mentioned about what Luong Thanh Nghi said as you stated in your early comment.


Please check following link on Viet's post. He posted it since the link I found was missing.


----------



## EastSea

Grand Historian said:


> Xich Quy,Van Lang and Hung Kings didn't exist,until you provide sources the point is moot.
> 
> As I stated before there was no sense of Vietnamese prior to the Han annexation,the people of Jiaozhi didn't call identify themselves as Yue.
> 
> Many native Vietnamese words are actually Sinictic in origin.
> 
> Even Ly Bi named his kingdom Van Xuan not Dai Viet
> 
> Your lack of historical knowledge is appalling,Taiwan was never united under a single aborigine tribe even the Dutch couldn't manage their new colony until they hired Fujianese farmers and merchants.
> 
> The first Chinese regime was founded by Zheng Chengong then it was destroyed by the Qing in 1683.
> 
> If Vietnamese people hated Chinese so much why did the Ngyuen dynasty worship Chinese sages/kings and call themselves Han?
> 
> No,Taiwan would not dare go independent unless it wants to be obliterated.
> .



Xich Quy,Van Lang and Hung Kings existed in our history book, same way apply to Hua'Xia, Huangdi,etc...didn't existed, only in your history book.

It should be many native Vietnamese words are Sinictic in origin, because our ancestors have been settled to Dongding lake in ancient time, to Yangze river in Hung King time, and such sinitic words in origin were loan word. Please understood that our language is Mon/Khmer language, Mandarin is Sino-tibetan.

So what do you think about this problem is that our language is existed many sinitic words in origin ? my answer is that in the past Van Lang people and Hua/Xia people (or tribes) were living side by side neigboring in Yangzs River. So that in Mandarin language the word "Jiang" (River) is loan word from word "Krong" in origin Mon/Khmer language.

What is the matter with Van Xuan and no Dai Viet when Ly Bi who regained our independence form China ? This is same story in China, before Han Dynasty founded by Han Cao Tuo in Middle land of China, there were many Dynasties were existed like Shang, Zhou etc before.


There is debate that Ly Bi was Chinese, after 500 years (20 generations) assimilated with native JiaoZhi people, was there Chinese Dynasty ? and apply to China I can say Tang Dynasty is Turkistan, not China's Dynasty.

Note that in the time of Van Xuan, Vietnamese/King people didn't separated from Muong people. Muong/Kinh was in one ethnic group in this time. Base on reconstruction method for words, elites confirmed that Muong and King people before of 1,300 years JiaoZhi people was Muong people, no Kinh (Viets) existed in the time of Van Xuan.

as I said in my post on PDF many time that in Nguyen Dynasty people said "Han-Man", its *Concept* in the time Han Ji was writting system of Vietnam, apply for the idea "Kinh -Thuong" in Vietnamese. In the story book stated that "Han people" for Vietnamese/Kinh, it got the meaning of *Majority* (civilized) people in opposite to *minority* (barbarian).

Official mane of people in Vietnam was Annam people or Dainam people. we didn't said that we are Han Chinese. I think there is big mistake of such fake elites or there is weakpoint of using Han Ji for writing in the past. It could lead to misunderstanding.

I think you can understand my idea.


----------



## EastSea

Mr Second said:


> Please check following link on Viet's post. He posted it since the link I found was missing.



read again the article in English you provided:



> *PM’s Yasukuni visit deals blow to Japanese-US ties*
> 
> Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe's shameful visit to the notorious Yasukuni Shrine on Thursday strikes a serious blow against US-Japan relations. The visit was completely unnecessary and directly flouted friendly and constructive advice from the Obama administration. Americans should view the present Cold War era alliance with Japan as not only unnecessary but in fact counterproductive given the trend of rising militarism in Japan.
> 
> Often people in the US and in Europe perceive that WWII started in Europe with Hitler's attack on Poland in 1939. But the fact is that the road to WWII started with the Japanese invasion of China in September 1931.
> 
> Then 10 years later, the Japanese treacherously attacked Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941. Americans will never forget this day of infamy and betrayal.
> 
> Abe's visit to the notorious shrine is a direct affront to US President Barack Obama and Vice President Joe Biden who both have worked hard to calm tensions over issues in the East China Sea. Just recently, Biden on his visit to the region encouraged the creation of joint Sino-Japanese mechanisms for crisis management.
> 
> Obama and Biden are doing their best to respond to a changing world and to the emerging multipolar international system. They have been acting in good faith toward Japan on the basis that Japan is believed to be a friend.
> 
> The American people have not held a grudge against Japan about WWII. But the increasing militarism and unacceptable behavior of leaders such as Abe may well bring back memories of WWII and cause perspectives to change.
> 
> My godfather served in the US Navy during WWII. He fought in the Pacific. I remember as a child in the 1950s hearing about his participation in the Battle of the Coral Sea. He returned home after the war and lived out his days in San Diego, California. I still have some letters he wrote to my late parents during the war.
> 
> A cousin of my father was not so fortunate. He did not return from his duty in the navy in the Pacific as he died from a kamikaze attack against his ship.
> 
> There was never once that I recall a negative word about Japan or the Japanese in my family's household. The war was over and that was that. Soldiers, sailors, marines, and airmen on both sides had done their duty for their respective countries. Time to move on, was the feeling Americans had.
> 
> This generous attitude of many in the older generation of Americans can change as Americans of the present generation and future generations reflect on WWII. The insulting behavior of Japanese politicians such as Abe, combined with Japan's trend toward militarization and extremism, may well open eyes and dispense with a heretofore "polite" attitude. The world has seen the results of such trends before. American opinion, if betrayed, turns rapidly.
> 
> Has Japan ever really sincerely apologized for WWII? Germany so apologized and the memory of Nazi horrors is seared into German consciousness. It has consistently demonstrated its good faith through its economic integration in Western Europe and through its constructive and peaceful foreign policy.
> 
> Abe's shameful behavior shows Japan's official attitude for the entire world to see. He is the prime minister of Japan. He is not a private citizen making a personal religious commemoration for spirits of the war dead.
> 
> Washington must reflect carefully on its national strategy and the Asia-Pacific component. So far, the unimaginative policy has been to continue the Cold War alliance structure and to revamp US relations with the region on the basis of increased military power projection to encircle a rising China.
> 
> The Abe shrine visit should be a clear warning to Washington that this strategy is deeply flawed and not sustainable. The US alliance with Japan and Japan's rising militarism may well prove fatally counterproductive.
> 
> _The author is an educator and former senior professional staff member of the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations. opinion@globaltimes.com.cn_



There is no name Luong Thanh Nghi founded.

The link of Viet is Vietnamese news paper. Its different in wording.


----------



## Mr Second

EastSea said:


> read again the article in English you provided:
> 
> 
> *There is no name Luong Thanh Nghi founded.*


Vietnam expresses concerns, urges Japan to handle issue properly CCTV News - CNTV English


----------



## EastSea

Mr Second said:


> Vietnam expresses concerns, urges Japan to handle issue properly CCTV News - CNTV English


sorry, not vietnamese, cctv new. but the nature is different.



Mr Second said:


> Vietnam expresses concerns, urges Japan to handle issue properly CCTV News - CNTV English


sorry, not vietnamese, cctv new. but the nature is different.


----------



## Mr Second

EastSea said:


> read again the article in English you provided:
> 
> 
> *There is no name Luong Thanh Nghi founded.*


I really have no idea with some of you guys now. Even a name still needs to be discussed from yesterday to today. Just want to Point out one most serious problem of asian people, Viets people, Chinese, korean, all have you guys care too much on some meanless things. Only Japanese people, sit down and concentrate on something, whatever science or litrature. How to make give yourself a good Life.



EastSea said:


> sorry, not vietnamese, cctv new. but the nature is different.
> 
> 
> sorry, not vietnamese, cctv new. but the nature is different.


I cant find that. Yesterday a Vietnam friend posted that, and I just copied.


----------



## EastSea

Mr Second said:


> I really have no idea with some of you guys now. Even a name still needs to be discussed from yesterday to today. Just want to Point out one most serious problem of asian people, Viets people, Chinese, korean, all have you guys care too much on some meanless things. Only Japanese people, sit down and concentrate on something, whatever science or litrature. How to make give yourself a good Life.
> 
> 
> I cant find that. Yesterday a Vietnam friend posted that, and I just copied.



but your post was that:



> I know China and VN having issue problem now, but even the spokeman of VN government Mr Luong Thanh Yi, who represent the Socialist Republic of Vietnam still announced: *Japan should do those what can make Asia peaceful!* Who are you? I said Japan is the deadline! Shamed on such Vietnamese!



Your summary is not correct, it lead to misunderstanding that Vietnam Govt supported Mr. Abe.

Note that my post is responded to your countryman, read again his post, he is aggressive chinese on PDF like Japanese aggressor in WW II, 

Think more, how many Vietnamese were killed by Chinese in 1979.


----------



## Mr Second

EastSea said:


> but your post was that:
> 
> 
> 
> Your summary is not correct, it lead to misunderstanding that Vietnam Govt supported Mr. Abe.
> 
> Note that my post is responded to your countryman, read again his post, he is aggressive chinese on PDF like Japanese aggressor in WW II,
> 
> Think more, how many Vietnamese were killed by Chinese in 1979.


Yeah, so I mean it, too Asia. Talking about 1979 again is meanless. Khmer Rouge, Vietnam's Dream about the whole Indochina and China's attack are all unwise. But really no mean to talk now. The Cold war will never return again.


----------



## BoQ77

How about the Chinese normal guy think about their nine-dashed line ?
With / or Without it ... what's good ? what's happen ?

China does not have that virtual territorial water area until now. Is there any affect to their life ?
None ...
But if China claims for that such a silly drawing, they stolen the fish of ASEAN fisherman ... and some more
that what we could clearly see by our eyes ...


----------



## Mr Second

BoQ77 said:


> How about the Chinese normal guy think about their nine-dashed line ?
> With / or Without it ... what's good ? what's happen ?
> 
> China does not have that virtual territorial water area until now. Is there any affect to their life ?
> None ...
> But if China claims for that such a silly drawing, they stolen the fish of ASEAN fisherman ... and some more
> that what we could clearly see by our eyes ...


Seriously, I can tell you what Chinese guys care is not the Nine-line, but the housing problem, studing problem, hospital problem, married problem.......... For the Nine-Line, no interest.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## BoQ77

Mr Second said:


> Seriously, I can tell you what Chinese guys care is not the Nine-line, but the housing problem, studing problem, hospital problem, married problem.......... For the Nine-Line, no interest.



Even a warship of India just come out of Vietnam - Da Nang port, they was alerted by China, "you are violating of China's territory.



> *Chinese Warship Confronts Indian Navy Vessel In The South China Sea*
> 
> An unnamed Chinese warship allegedly challenged an Indian navy vessel as it left a Vietnam port on July 22.
> According to the Financial Times, the Chinese craft insisted the Indian amphibious assault vehicle, the INS Airavat explain its presence in Chinese waters.
> 
> Indian officials claim the ship was 45 miles off the Vietnamese coast, well within Vietnam's economic zone.
> 
> India's senior foreign ministry spokesman told the FT that the Airavat was "contacted on open radio channel by a caller identifying himself as the 'Chinese Navy' stating that 'you are entering Chinese waters'".
> 
> The Airavat did not see any aircraft or ships in the area.
> 
> While China claims the entire South China Sea as its own, an Indian official familiar with the incident says, "Any navy in the world has full freedom to transit through these waters or high seas. For any country to proclaim ownership or question the right to passage by any other nation is unacceptable."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Read more: Chinese Warship Confronts Indian Navy Vessel In The South China Sea - Business Insider



Then what happen to regular ASEAN fishboat ? They were robbed by Chinese govt. semi-military ships everyday ... right in their EEZ but inside the nine-dashed line boundary

China is making ASEAN fisherman poorer time after time ... If they follow Chinese rule, they have nothing to catch for several months ... while Chinese fishermen still enter Korean water zone for fish ... 

Think, what's happen if a bigger one threaten Chinese fisherman right in China's EEZ ?


----------



## Mr Second

BoQ77 said:


> Even a warship of India just come out of Vietnam - Da Nang port, they was alerted by China, "you are violating of China's territory.
> What happen to regular ASEAN fishboat ? They were robbed by Chinese govt. semi-military ships everyday ...
> 
> China is making ASEAN fisherman poorer time after time ... right in their undeniable EEZ but inside the nine-dashed line boundary


Cannot answer you question. Like the same situation in Vietnam, Chinese people come from different area are quite different, as some Hanoi people dont like Saigon. I've never been to the China-Vietnam border whatever on the land or sea, where I live is a modern and developed china city or a nice Vietnam city near Halong Bay. no idea with those fishmen.


----------



## EastSea

Mr Second said:


> Yeah, so I mean it, too Asia. Talking about 1979 again is meanless. Khmer Rouge, Vietnam's Dream about the whole Indochina and China's attack are all unwise. But really no mean to talk now. The Cold war will never return again.



Chinese lie about Indochine federation. Lying is no good. Deng Xiao Ping was very happy in Washington when Carter permit you attack Vietnam to revenge on us, 
You can not deny that China backed Khmer Rouge to attack us first with chinese weapons. we do not permit Khmer Rouge and China attack us in the same time.

Frankly speaking, Japan change his policy, it is mistake of idiot warmongers sitting in Peking


----------



## Mr Second

EastSea said:


> Chinese lie about Indochine federation. Lying is no good. Deng Xiao Ping was very happy in Washington when Carter permit you attack Vietnam to revenge on us,
> You can not deny that China backed Khmer Rouge to attack us first with chinese weapons. we do not permit Khmer Rouge and China attack us in the same time.
> 
> Frankly speaking, Japan change his policy, it is mistake of idiot warmongers sitting in Peking


History is full of lie, not only for China and Vietnam but for every country in the World, so no need to talk about that. About Deng, for sure he ordered the attack in 1979, however, without Deng, Vietnam people maybe still is living under the Planned Economy from USSR now.


----------



## Grand Historian

EastSea said:


> Xich Quy,Van Lang and Hung Kings existed in our history book, same way apply to Hua'Xia, Huangdi,etc...didn't existed, only in your history book.
> 
> It should be many native Vietnamese words are Sinictic in origin, because our ancestors have been settled to Dongding lake in ancient time, to Yangze river in Hung King time, and such sinitic words in origin were loan word. Please understood that our language is Mon/Khmer language, Mandarin is Sino-tibetan.
> 
> So what do you think about this problem is that our language is existed many sinitic words in origin ? my answer is that in the past Van Lang people and Hua/Xia people (or tribes) were living side by side neigboring in Yangzs River. So that in Mandarin language the word "Jiang" (River) is loan word from word "Krong" in origin Mon/Khmer language.
> 
> What is the matter with Van Xuan and no Dai Viet when Ly Bi who regained our independence form China ? This is same story in China, before Han Dynasty founded by Han Cao Tuo in Middle land of China, there were many Dynasties were existed like Shang, Zhou etc before.
> 
> 
> There is debate that Ly Bi was Chinese, after 500 years (20 generations) assimilated with native JiaoZhi people, was there Chinese Dynasty ? and apply to China I can say Tang Dynasty is Turkistan, not China's Dynasty.
> 
> Note that in the time of Van Xuan, Vietnamese/King people didn't separated from Muong people. Muong/Kinh was in one ethnic group in this time. Base on reconstruction method for words, elites confirmed that Muong and King people before of 1,300 years JiaoZhi people was Muong people, no Kinh (Viets) existed in the time of Van Xuan.
> 
> as I said in my post on PDF many time that in Nguyen Dynasty people said "Han-Man", its *Concept* in the time Han Ji was writting system of Vietnam, apply for the idea "Kinh -Thuong" in Vietnamese. In the story book stated that "Han people" for Vietnamese/Kinh, it got the meaning of *Majority* (civilized) people in opposite to *minority* (barbarian).
> 
> Official mane of people in Vietnam was Annam people or Dainam people. we didn't said that we are Han Chinese. I think there is big mistake of such fake elites or there is weakpoint of using Han Ji for writing in the past. It could lead to misunderstanding.
> 
> I think you can understand my idea.


Exactly they appear in history books thousands of years past the actual event Western Sinologists don't recognize Xia or its predecessors the sage kings to exist,your legends are fabrications by Ngo Si Lien the Dai Viet su ky doesn't even mention these.

Your own history book Kham dinh Viet su Thong coung muc criticizes Dai Viet su ky toan thu in that all the regions of Van Lang are located in Northern Vietnam and that the Chinese states would be aware if Xich Quy was that large.

Nope,Vietnamese only recognized the Luo Yue as their ancestors and they lived in Western Guangdong,Guangxi and Northern Vietnam.

The Lake Dongting is nothing more then legends and should not be treated as history,Austro Asiatic and Mon Khmer are not exclusively Vietnamese.

I'm not saying Ly Bi is Chinese I'm saying his ancestors are.

The Tang emperors have Xianbei blood,however the Xianbei themselves mixed with "Han" Chinese so its fruitless determining the exact percentage of Xianbei or "Han" bloodline,the Tang emperors claimed descent from Li Guang a Han era general and even further by claiming Laotze.

That isn't to say the early Tang emperors disregarded their mother's side some were fluent in Xianbei language and some Tang clothing are derived from nomads.

My point about Van Xuan is that the Yue identity was already forgotten by then.

To the Nguyen civilization meant Chinese civilization.

Its quite sad to see nationalistic Vietnamese trying to claim that Southern China and by a extent Southern Han Chinese are lost Vietnamese,we are Han not Yue.


----------



## EastSea

Mr Second said:


> History is full of lie, not only for China and Vietnam but for every country in the World, so no need to talk about that. About Deng, for sure he ordered the attack in 1979, however, without Deng, Vietnam people maybe still is living under the Planned Economy from USSR now.



but you still lie. he he,
every one could know that Stalin model for economy is wrong other than all the political system so called "socialism" is wrong too. Its reported that from 1979s years in time of Vietnam war, in North VN, land was divided to each peasant household by Kin Ngoc former Party secretary of Vinh Phuc province. Problem is who with his position in rule system of regime could change it first include politic system. Today, there is not USSR existed.

For us Deng is war crime. war apology statements was issued by the state of Japan with regard to the war crimes and atrocities committed by the Empire of Japan during world war II for people in Asia, but China didn't say it for Sino Vietnam war 1979, when innocent Vietnamese were killed by Chinese . Chinese look at yourselves first.

You said in early post that you don't like discuss with me, OK, I will ignore you if you don't insult us.


----------



## Mr Second

EastSea said:


> but you still lie. he he,
> every one could know that Stalin model for economy is wrong other than all the political system so called "socialism" is wrong too. Its reported that from 1979s years in time of Vietnam war, in North VN, land was divided to each peasant household by Kin Ngoc former Party secretary of Vinh Phuc province. Problem is who with his position in rule system of regime could change it first include politic system. Today, there is not USSR existed.
> 
> For us Deng is war crime. war apology statements was issued by the state of Japan with regard to the war crimes and atrocities committed by the Empire of Japan during world war II for people in Asia, but China didn't say it for Sino Vietnam war 1979, when innocent Vietnamese were killed by Chinese . Chinese look at yourselves first.
> 
> You said in early post that you don't like discuss with me, OK, I will ignore you if you don't insult us.


You are really laughable, I was angry before because your talk about Japan's invasion liked a joke, and you should read my message again to find out when did I insult you. BTW, your meaning in the last message was not very clear in English, so I only can guess them approximatly. First, I did write Deng ordered attack, didnt I? Which has showed my opinion on this war is that war was attacked by Chinese army first. Second, your opinion on socialism is quite subjective and ignore many economics knowledges. The most festure of socialism is the public ownership and people, according to what they did, can take their demands from a public authority by a certain standard. For sure, this theroy is probably going to make "lazy people" since the difference on people's supply always depends on making works end, nor making them finished, on the other side, however, the socialism sitll has its irreplaceable superiority. Stating a example to analyze it. the American Financial Crisis in 1930s. The liberal capitalism was always the proud of western countries, the key idea "Invisible Hand" was a opinion fron Adam Smith, who believed all the economic activities could have a smooth adjustment by the market itself, and governments should not care about anything, however, that crsis did break a hole onto the free market and the Three Rs was added Roosevelt's New Deal did name a new definition to the world's trend on economy area, in particular to the National Industrial Recovery Act, which law gave a rule on management, pricing, market allocation, wage standard, working time's arrangement, etc. Simply thinking that, this act did study many experiences from Stalin's mode, but the innovations are also visable as well. The America's experience, by the means of Roosevelt's Deal, do give us a fresh concept that the two antithetic theroies on paper can be cambined with a new sucessful mode, which can get along with nearly any countries in the World even at present. Today's difference between so called socialist countries and capitalist countries is the two theroies have a different rate in their economic system, insteads of one is taken place or much more modern by the other. About Vietnam's development, even the Vietnam's officers have said Vietnam's development do follow a good road which was built by China and Deng, no doubt, he is the pioneer. At last, I still want to talk about Japan. The Black Boat Incident showed the shogun's feudal rule to Japan had been outdated, and since that Japanese started the curtain down movement and Meiji Reform. The invasion of Japan made Chinese know their weak national power and I am very honored the God could give China a Japan to stay with. To Vietnam, yeah, Deng started the attack, but on the other side, the Vietnam leaders know how to make a evalution on him and no mean to say more.


----------



## Mr Second

EastSea said:


> but you still lie. he he,
> every one could know that Stalin model for economy is wrong other than all the political system so called "socialism" is wrong too. Its reported that from 1979s years in time of Vietnam war, in North VN, land was divided to each peasant household by Kin Ngoc former Party secretary of Vinh Phuc province. Problem is who with his position in rule system of regime could change it first include politic system. Today, there is not USSR existed.
> 
> For us Deng is war crime. war apology statements was issued by the state of Japan with regard to the war crimes and atrocities committed by the Empire of Japan during world war II for people in Asia, but China didn't say it for Sino Vietnam war 1979, when innocent Vietnamese were killed by Chinese . Chinese look at yourselves first.
> 
> You said in early post that you don't like discuss with me, OK, I will ignore you if you don't insult us.


To avoid the missunderstand, I repeat again: To the war 1979, I never say Deng has No wrong todo that! You Think he is a crime, ok, as you wish and I dont want to argue this stupid war again.


----------



## Viva_Viet

Mr Second said:


> Seriously, I can tell you what Chinese guys care is not the Nine-line, but the housing problem, studing problem, hospital problem, married problem.......... For the Nine-Line, no interest.


Yeah, we have same problem wt u, but maybe we r small country, so SCS(E sea) become one of our problems too. U said u r in Hai Phong, right. Do u know even Hai Phong kids in secondary school like Hong Bang school also dont like Chinese ?? Maybe they r taught to hate ur aggression, maybe they learn it from internet.

China cant attack VN like in 1979 now, so I hope that reasonable Chinese should tell the other not to make trouble to VN in the future. U killed our men in 1988 and ur men got killed mercilessly in 1990. Both will suffer more pain if problem in SCS(E sea) can not resolve.







> Army since January 1988, has troops stationed seven Spratly reefs. The seven reefs are mostly suitable flooded reef, reef exposed at low tide, low tide vast expanse of water. Dizhan large reefs around everywhere, so the army only a few small reefs on the distribution and strength of comparative stagnation was at a disadvantage. Early garrison, because the defense is not perfect facilities, personnel stationed in South Reef smoked an accident occurs.
> 
> N*ovember 7, 1990, I found the Southern Command Nansha reefs lost radio contact.After the situation was reported to the South China Sea Fleet deployed immediately went to see the ship. Under the notification, the reef is a unit of Marines stationed in the preparation of 12 people, then should be 11 people (one reason temporarily off the reef). Inspectors found that the bodies of six soldiers on the reef, and another five people missing.* Missing persons including reef Chang allegiance, vice reef long and correspondents. In addition to the personnel on the reef, the reef warrior Xu Huiping Yong Department reef due to the treatment of burns and survived. Inspectors found multiple bullet holes in the room, indicating where the fighting occurred. Then they picked up and from the underwater reef a few rifles, these guns are all our military garrison personnel standard rifle.
> 
> This event was caused no small vibration in the army, immediately set up by the South China Sea Fleet of the senior leadership responsible for the investigation team, in-depth and comprehensive investigation, and make rehabilitation work. Findings are confidential at the time, unable to understand the outside.
> 
> This strange incident, even if insiders are also controversial. Is encountered enemy special forces raid, fighting or other emergency occurs, the truth has not yet been fully understood.This incident, I analyzed are the following possibilities:
> 
> *1, most likely by the army special forces is. Vietnamese troops in 1988, "3.14" Red Reef of Nansha sea battle at a disadvantage, must look for an opportunity to retaliate. But then I Nansha garrison high vigilance and patrolling troops, combat readiness, they are hard to find opportunities. I combined the naval prisoners of war captured in Zhanjiang Nansha trial, our government has not yet handed over to Vietnam. Since 1990, our military posture in Nansha is clear, I observe activity patterns reef and the ship's officers that they have already mastered their "revenge about" conditions ripe. According to common sense traces of science, this action does not leave any suspicious items, indicating that other means quite clever. Does not exclude the other is the master shooting, fighting, diving techniques, and even combat may wear body armor. If this action as a planned and premeditated military action, should be considered very successful.* But not arbitrary conclusion is that after the successful implementation of this action the enemy, meritorious officers must reward, JiaGuanJinJue, will follow along with the media reports, trumpeted the so-called "heroic deeds", but did not. Things over the past 20 years, information and networks so advanced, Vietnam had not been seen in any public media reported. They do a job well done is confidential?
> 
> In addition to the newspaper, the Philippines, Malaysia, accounting for part of my Nansha Islands and, in theory, its military personnel have started to attack me in the reef may be. But the two countries have maintained friendly relations with China over the they dare decorum skin, desperate to take such a big political and military risks? Media in both countries are more open, we were not given any clues, so many years, it is no reflection.


----------



## Mr Second

Viva_Viet said:


> Yeah, we have same problem wt u, but maybe we r small country, so SCS(E sea) become one of our problems too. U said u r in Hai Phong, right. Do u know even Hai Phong kids in secondary school like Hong Bang school also dont like Chinese ?? Maybe they r taught to hate ur aggression, maybe they learn it from internet.
> 
> China cant attack VN like in 1979 now, so I hope that reasonable Chinese should tell the other not to make trouble to VN in the future. U killed our men in 1988 and ur men got killed mercilessly in 1990. Both will suffer more pain if problem in SCS(E sea) can not resolve.


haha, Thanks for remind, but my nationality is Norwegian, borned in Shanghai and got University in Norway. I'll take care Norway's intrest first. Since so many affairs are about China in the forum, so I use Chinese flag. Vietnam people do like Chinese Culture and economy,

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

Mr Second said:


> You are really laughable, I was angry before because your talk about Japan's invasion liked a joke, and you should read my message again to find out when did I insult you. BTW, your meaning in the last message was not very clear in English, so I only can guess them approximatly. First, I did write Deng ordered attack, didnt I? Which has showed my opinion on this war is that war was attacked by Chinese army first. Second, your opinion on socialism is quite subjective and ignore many economics knowledges. The most festure of socialism is the public ownership and people, according to what they did, can take their demands from a public authority by a certain standard. For sure, this theroy is probably going to make "lazy people" since the difference on people's supply always depends on making works end, nor making them finished, on the other side, however, the socialism sitll has its irreplaceable superiority. Stating a example to analyze it. the American Financial Crisis in 1930s. The liberal capitalism was always the proud of western countries, the key idea "Invisible Hand" was a opinion fron Adam Smith, who believed all the economic activities could have a smooth adjustment by the market itself, and governments should not care about anything, however, that crsis did break a hole onto the free market and the Three Rs was added Roosevelt's New Deal did name a new definition to the world's trend on economy area, in particular to the National Industrial Recovery Act, which law gave a rule on management, pricing, market allocation, wage standard, working time's arrangement, etc. Simply thinking that, this act did study many experiences from Stalin's mode, but the innovations are also visable as well. The America's experience, by the means of Roosevelt's Deal, do give us a fresh concept that the two antithetic theroies on paper can be cambined with a new sucessful mode, which can get along with nearly any countries in the World even at present. Today's difference between so called socialist countries and capitalist countries is the two theroies have a different rate in their economic system, insteads of one is taken place or much more modern by the other. About Vietnam's development, even the Vietnam's officers have said Vietnam's development do follow a good road which was built by China and Deng, no doubt, he is the pioneer. At last, I still want to talk about Japan. The Black Boat Incident showed the shogun's feudal rule to Japan had been outdated, and since that Japanese started the curtain down movement and Meiji Reform. The invasion of Japan made Chinese know their weak national power and I am very honored the God could give China a Japan to stay with. To Vietnam, yeah, Deng started the attack, but on the other side, the Vietnam leaders know how to make a evalution on him and no mean to say more.





> About Vietnam's development, even the Vietnam's officers have said Vietnam's development do follow a good road which was built by China and Deng, no doubt, he is the pioneer



"Doi moi" policy made by Nguyen Van Linh 1986.

In reality, "Open to West policy " for economy, Min Ji Emperor of Japan did first in Asia. Both China, Vietnam copied from Japan, Korean and other South East countries did long time ago.


----------



## Grand Historian

Viet said:


> grand historician, thank for your post. that explains me a bit more.
> 
> I read in a book over the history of China that the Manchus or Qing followed a very racism policy after they defeated the Ming. The Manchus rulers demanded as a sign of submission that all Han men had to shave their heads. Further they forbade mixed marriages between the native Manchus and Hans, and even any settlement into their homeland of Manchuria.


I don't have much knowledge on the Sino-French war I'll leave that subject to some one else.

How is it shaming the native Han population,from the emperor to the beggar all the Manchus and Han all had the same hairstyle my interpretation is it is used to solidify the Manchus and the Han as one Chinese people.

Funny thing is that the queue was recognized as Chinese bu the populace after the fall of Qing people were forced to cut it by the revolutionaries.

There is also the misconception of Hanfu being banned,the civliain population adopted Manchu clothing to emulate the elite there is no evidence of Hanfu being banned for the common people only government officials had to swtich from Ming Hanfu to Manchu clothing.

Ever see Beijing Opera?

What they are wearing is Hanfu.

There was no edict preventing Han bannermen from marrying Manchu and Mongol bannerwomen or vice versa,what was banned was mixing with the everyday Han Chinese though we all know even if something is illegal its still going to happen.

The emperors Kangxi,Qianlong and Jiaqing all had Han bannermen mother.

Han bannermen either married with the Manchus/Mongols,within their own banners or with the local populace,

Besides there are records of Ming deserters that settled with the Jurchens and were absorbed into the population.

The Manchu term for Han Chinese "Nikan" was a reference to those who adopted Chinese culture and spoke it whether they were truly descended from Ming settlers,Koreans or Jurchens didn't matter.

The Korean Shin Chungil noticed that Nurhaci and other Jurchens had many Chinese/Korean(as Koreans had the same naming style as Chinese it is hard to differentiate) workers and bondservants.

These Han Chinese were further subdivided those outside the Great Wall ie Liaodong Han Chinese and the Han Chinese that joined after ie deserting Ming soldiers/officials the former were treated better than the later and the Eastern Liaodong/Jilin Han(Tai Nikan) and Fushun Han(Fushun Nikan) bannermen were directly incorporated to the Manchu banners in 1740.

There are several prominent "Chinese" families the Li of Tieling,Shi of Guangning and the Tong of Fushun that greatly interacted with Nurhaci.

Individual Han Chinese rose to great ranks,Gong Zhenglu originally from Shaoxing,Zhejiang was doing business in Liaodong when he was captured by a raid however currying favor he was prized by Nurhaci was given wealth,wives and a job to tutor Nurhaci's sons.

The Eastern Liaodongnese Han soliders were also greatly respected and cherished by the Manchus.

The origin of the Li pf Tieling is speculated to be a Koreanized Jurchen who later moved to Ming China after the death of Li Rubo(brother to famed Imjin War veteran Li Chengliang) his nephews Li Zunzu and Li Sizheng as well as another relative Li Yongfang defected to Nurchaci and intermarried with Manchus.

The origin of Shi of Guangning and Tong of Fushun are both Chinese however they decided to fabricate their origins later on which I will explain in a moment.

The Tong of Fushun were descended from Han Chinese or Jurchens,Tong Dali a Ming infantrymen also the founder of the lineage married a women surnamed Wang(Many Jurchens adopted the surname Wang from Wanggiya so it is unknown if she is Jurchen or Han).

The point being after several generations even if they weren't Han to begin with they were Han in the eyes of their neighbors.

Anyways the descendants of the defector Tong Yangxing, eventually had a daughter the mother of Emperor Kangxi.

Kangxi's maternal uncle Tong Guogang in 1688 petitioned Kangxi using the claim that his family was descended from the Tunngiya Jurchen clan, and his relatives were elevated to the bordered yellow banner of the Manchus

Shi Huashan also petitioned Kangxi to be admitted under the guise his family was descended from Bukha and was granted his wish.

However both these lineages are false,Shi's imagined lineage was not found in the Suwan's(a Manchu group) ancestral records and the Tunggiya were founded later then the Tong of Fushun.

I'm not saying discrimination didn't exist what I'm saying is that even "pure" blooded Manchu probably have Han Chinese blood.

Information from the the Manchu Way by Mark C. Elliot:

Manchus bannermen outnumbered the Han Chinese bannermen in 1648 (206,961-389,436 vs 171,591-322,881) but by 1720 the Manchu bannermen were eclipsed (576,786-1,083,480 vs 766,279-1,442,747). That's not even mentioning the bondservants who were mostly Chinese.

No,Manchuria is a Western concept it didn't' exist during the Qing,true they forbade Han settlers but its not like they kicked out the existing Han living there.

For further reading:

The Manchu Way: The Eight Banners and Ethnic Identity in Late Imperial China

A Translucent Mirror: History and Identity in Qing Imperial Ideology

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

Grand Historian said:


> Exactly they appear in history books thousands of years past the actual event Western Sinologists don't recognize Xia or its predecessors the sage kings to exist,your legends are fabrications by Ngo Si Lien the Dai Viet su ky doesn't even mention these.
> 
> Your own history book Kham dinh Viet su Thong coung muc criticizes Dai Viet su ky toan thu in that all the regions of Van Lang are located in Northern Vietnam and that the Chinese states would be aware if Xich Quy was that large.
> 
> Nope,Vietnamese only recognized the Luo Yue as their ancestors and they lived in Western Guangdong,Guangxi and Northern Vietnam.
> 
> The Lake Dongting is nothing more then legends and should not be treated as history,Austro Asiatic and Mon Khmer are not exclusively Vietnamese.
> 
> I'm not saying Ly Bi is Chinese I'm saying his ancestors are.
> 
> The Tang emperors have Xianbei blood,however the Xianbei themselves mixed with "Han" Chinese so its fruitless determining the exact percentage of Xianbei or "Han" bloodline,the Tang emperors claimed descent from Li Guang a Han era general and even further by claiming Laotze.
> 
> That isn't to say the early Tang emperors disregarded their mother's side some were fluent in Xianbei language and some Tang clothing are derived from nomads.
> 
> My point about Van Xuan is that the Yue identity was already forgotten by then.
> 
> To the Nguyen civilization meant Chinese civilization.
> 
> Its quite sad to see nationalistic Vietnamese trying to claim that Southern China and by a extent Southern Han Chinese are lost Vietnamese,we are Han not Yue.



Ngo Sy Lien didn't fabricated by himself in Dai Viet Su Ky Toan thu. There is history book finished in 15th century.

He copied only from another book Lĩnh Nam chích quái (chữ Hán: 嶺南摭怪) "The wonderful tales of Lĩnh Nam" is a 14th-century Vietnamese historical work written in Chinese (chữ nho) by vi:Trần Thế Pháp.

Trần Thế Pháp did not fabricated by hinself too. He is collected all such public folktales, stories telling or writing by unknown people. So, he made his book 嶺南摭怪.

Its legandary history, It was debated by our elites and historian too. you can belive it or not.


----------



## Mr Second

Rechoice said:


> "Doi moi" policy made by Nguyen Van Linh 1986.
> 
> In reality, "Open to West policy " for economy, Min Ji Emperor of Japan did first in Asia. Both China, Vietnam copied from Japan, Korean and other South East coYouuntries did long time ago.





Rechoice said:


> "Doi moi" policy made by Nguyen Van Linh 1986.
> 
> In reality, "Open to West policy " for economy, Min Ji Emperor of Japan did first in Asia. Both China, Vietnam copied from Japan, Korean and other South East countries did long time ago.


Yeah, Japan did that best, but no the earliest.


Rechoice said:


> "Doi moi" policy made by Nguyen Van Linh 1986.
> 
> In reality, "Open to West policy " for economy, Min Ji Emperor of Japan did first in Asia. Both China, Vietnam copied from Japan, Korean and other South East countries did long time ago.


Yeah, Japan was the most successful but not the earliest. Chinese westernization drive was much more earlier than Meiji Reform actually. If you read some books about China, Japan and Korea's history since 10th century, you will probably find their relation are very interesting.


----------



## beijingwalker

15 January 2014 Last updated at 02:16 GMT
*Shift as Vietnam marks South China Sea battle*
By Nga PhamBBC News



> China has built the city of Sansha on the disputed Paracel Islands
> Forty years ago dozens of Vietnamese soldiers were killed in a bloody battle with Chinese troops over disputed islands in the South China Sea.
> 
> This year, for the first time, Vietnam's state media is publicly marking the event, printing numerous articles on the battle.
> 
> The move comes in the month that the Chinese government published new rules requiring foreign fishing vessels to seek Beijing's permission to operate in most of the South China Sea - an action likely to further raise anti-China rhetoric in the Vietnamese press.
> 
> Prior to the battle, Vietnam had controlled some islands within the Paracel archipelago (Xisha in Chinese) and China had controlled others. Both sides claimed them in full, as did Taiwan.
> 
> On 19 January 1974 a clash erupted between the South Vietnamese navy and Chinese forces.
> 
> Three of the four Vietnamese warships had to retreat while the fourth sunk with its captain on board.
> 
> As a result, China gained control over the entire group of islands, now part its newly-established Sansha prefecture.
> 
> The current government renewed Vietnam's claim to the Paracels (Hoang Sa in Vietnamese) after the Vietnam war ended, but to date has rarely mentioned the 1974 naval clash. The event is not even included in modern history textbooks.
> 
> Up to 1975 the Paracel archipelago was claimed by the US-backed Saigon government. At the time Hanoi did not protest China's occupation of the islands nor - for a long time - recognise the South Vietnamese soldiers' loss of life - because they were considered by the communist North to be an enemy army.
> 
> *Paracel Islands*
> But historian Nguyen Nha, who specialises in South China Sea issues, says things have now changed.
> 
> "We have to realise that there are no more North and South, we're all Vietnamese. Politics come and go, but historical facts remain."
> 
> This change of heart is clearly visible in Vietnamese media.
> 
> National newspapers like Thanh Nien and Tuoi Tre have in recent weeks been running a series of reports including detailed accounts by witnesses on how the Paracels were taken by China by force and descriptions of heroic actions by South Vietnamese sailors.
> 
> Public meetings have been held to commemorate the battle and there are calls to recognise the "martyrdom" of the fallen soldiers and offer support to their families.
> 
> 'Historical facts'
> Just months ago, such moves would have been unheard of. The authorities in Hanoi have been extremely careful not to offend Vietnam's giant neighbour - and are also fully aware that nationalist sentiment can get out of hand.
> 
> Anti-China protests in which participants have shouted slogans such as "The Paracels belong to Vietnam" have been quickly dispersed in the past.
> 
> As Vietnamese media remains tightly controlled by the Communist Party, the green light to address the issue of the battle may have come from above.
> 
> Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung reportedly told a meeting with leading Vietnamese historians at the end of December that the government was planning activities to commemorate the 1974 event, as well as the 1979 border war with China.
> 
> He also urged to include "these historical facts" in school textbooks.
> 
> authorities have kept a firm hand on anti-China sentiment so far
> Emeritus Professor Carlyle Thayer from the University of New South Wales in Australia says raising the profile of the 1974 conflict "has more to do with shoring up domestic legitimacy by undercutting the overseas Vietnamese supporters of the Saigon regime who, of course, memorialise this battle".
> 
> Ho Van Ky Thoai, a former rear admiral in the Saigon navy and one of the commanders of the 1974 battle who now resides in the United States, agrees there has been "a shift in the Vietnamese government's approach to the subject".
> 
> "They have come to realise the clear danger of being swallowed by China. Unfortunately, it is years too late," he said, adding that the best the Vietnamese government could do is to quickly give the South Vietnamese soldiers the highest recognition they deserved.
> 
> Sceptics also point out that this might be just a patriotic card cleverly played by Vietnamese leaders to distract the public from problems such as the economy and rampant corruption.
> 
> Some of the largest corruption trials involving high-ranking party officials are slated to take place this month, and as the Lunar New Year approaches complaints about living standards are once again surfacing.
> 
> But for many this new move is an indication of Vietnam's attempt to consolidate its territorial claims in the face of China's increasingly assertive activities in the South China Sea.
> 
> "Vietnamese people are facing a danger of aggression and humiliation [by China] like never before in the South China Sea," warns historian Nguyen Nha.
> 
> New fishing rules by China that took effect on 1 January require foreign fishing ships to obtain approval to enter waters it has placed under the jurisdiction of the Hainan provincial government, including those surrounding the Paracels.
> 
> Experts say the rules are likely to create incidents with Vietnamese fishermen who consider the waters around the islands their traditional fishing grounds and regularly accuse Chinese authorities of harassment.
> 
> Vietnamese media have raised the tone of their reports on China's new fishing regulation, which Hanoi has called "illegal and invalid".
> 
> But "it is the reported instigation of Vietnamese authorities encouraging Vietnamese fishermen to fish in the waters around the Paracels that could lead to conflict", warns Prof Thayer.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

the islands are a lost cause, like the Senkakus are lost to the Japanese.
the only thing we can do is to keep fishing around the waters like the Chinese do in the East China Sea.

perhaps another super typhoon can wash out all of the buildings and structures into the sea. who knows.


----------



## BoQ77

Some Chinese keep saying Vietnam stolen their islands.
The naval battle told us the difference, China occupied the islands by violence after a naval battle with Vietnamese who keeping the island


----------



## ViXuyen

Viet said:


> the islands are a lost cause, like the Senkakus are lost to the Japanese.
> the only thing we can do is to keep fishing around the waters like the Chinese do in the East China Sea.
> 
> perhaps another super typhoon can wash out all of the buildings and structures into the sea. who knows.


Chinese history is filled with disintegration. When they get fragmented and weak again like they have always been throughout history; that's when we will snatch the Paracel island back. They did the same to us when we were in a Civil War in 1974.

Patience is the key.


----------



## S10

ViXuyen said:


> Chinese history is filled with disintegration. When they get fragmented and weak again like they have always been throughout history; that's when we will snatch the Paracel island back. They did the same to us when we were in a Civil War in 1974.
> 
> Patience is the key.


Or we could also take you over again. It works both ways.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## beijingwalker

ViXuyen said:


> When they get fragmented and weak again like they have always been throughout history; that's when we will snatch the Paracel island back. They did the same to us when we were in a Civil War in 1974.
> 
> Patience is the key.



Throughout the history,When China was united and strong, Vietnam was usually China's. based on this old rule, China is not strong enough now, but Patience is the key.


----------



## Genesis

S10 said:


> Or we could also take you over again. It works both ways.



oh hell no, we already got enough poor dudes, what we don't need is another 100 million people that can't afford the product that they make. 

Those poor people are their problem. I'm happy with that.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## beijingwalker

Genesis said:


> oh hell no, we already got enough poor dudes, what we don't need is another 100 million people that can't afford the product that they make.
> 
> Those poor people are their problem. I'm happy with that.



Damn.I hadn't thought about that,that is indeed a huge problem.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## S10

Genesis said:


> oh hell no, we already got enough poor dudes, what we don't need is another 100 million people that can't afford the product that they make.
> 
> Those poor people are their problem. I'm happy with that.


Who says we need the people? Keep the rich and drive out the poor then.


----------



## BoQ77

We just want to keep our territorial water, our EEZ ...
If you don't respect and be cooperative in NEGO and continue to invade us, we must self-protected,
if it's impossible, we need the help from other

Vietnam is launching the first submarine for self protecting territories.





US - VN cooperation in Coast Guard force improvement !!!





LRAD supplied to Vietnam for avoiding illegal fishboat from outside

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

S10 said:


> Or we could also take you over again. It works both ways.



Japan take you back soon.



rott said:


> I have a better solution, drive out everyone and keep the money and the land. lol...



wet dream, kid.


----------



## beijingwalker

*Paracel Islands











*


----------



## EastSea



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## beijingwalker

Future planning of the islands, a Singapore style vacation resort


----------



## cirr

beijingwalker said:


> Future planning of the islands, a Singapore style vacation resort



Good tourist destination。Could be made into a gaming paradise。


----------



## shuttler

Viet said:


> the islands are a lost cause, like the Senkakus are lost to the Japanese.



Its true for the japanese in desperation and despair. We are winning our Diaoyu Islands back patrolling the area is our administration routine



> the only thing we can do is to keep fishing around the waters like the Chinese do in the East China Sea.


your boats and junks will be warned off and away.



> perhaps another super typhoon can wash out all of the buildings and structures into the sea. who knows.



builit by vietnamese

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

ViXuyen said:


> *Chinese history is filled with disintegration.* When they get fragmented and weak again like they have always been throughout history; that's when we will snatch the Paracel island back. They did the same to us when we were in a Civil War in 1974.
> 
> Patience is the key.


you are right...remind me of the mass exodus of Chinese refugees into Vietnam after the collapse of the Ming dynasty. Patience is very important.



cirr said:


> Good* tourist destination*。Could be made into a gaming paradise。


Chinese tourists can swim with the sharks. Pls send them there.



S10 said:


> Who says we need the people? Keep the rich and drive out the poor then.


if any pls come as peaceful tourists, you can enjoy smog free tours in jungles of Vietnam.


----------



## kankan326

China should only take her islands back. No need to occupy Vietnam land. Leave Vietnam land to Vietnamese.


----------



## beijingwalker

Viet said:


> if any pls come as peaceful tourists, you can enjoy smog free tours in jungles of Vietnam.



You certainly don't know how big China is.China has tons of places where has the best air and blue sky in the world.


----------



## ViXuyen

Viet Nam and China should be territory swap. Viet Nam gets more land while China gets more sea area.


----------



## cirr

CCG 1401、2401 and 3401：

















Three 4500-tonne law enforcement vessels that are gonna see lots of fun in the SCS and ECS。



beijingwalker said:


> You certainly don't know how big China is.China has tons of places where has the best air and blue sky in the world.



These guys are under heavy influence of western propaganda machines。

Brainwashed is their defining character。


----------



## Rechoice

nothing more than such fake toys.


----------



## cirr

Hard evidence that China is building 12000-tonne vessels for its Coast Guard：

中国万吨级海监船获证实 日海保船最大仅7000吨|守护船|变频驱动_凤凰财经


----------



## hurt

Rechoice said:


> nothing more than such fake toys.


Maybe you like be shoot by those toys.


----------



## Rechoice

cirr said:


> Hard evidence that China is building 12000-tonne vessels for its Coast Guard：
> 
> 中国万吨级海监船获证实 日海保船最大仅7000吨|守护船|变频驱动_凤凰财经



big ship, more money. Chinese corruption officials will be very happy. 



hurt said:


> Maybe you like be shoot by those toys.



just run around if you have benzine, but don make provocative actions in our EZZ.


----------



## hurt

Rechoice said:


> big ship, more money. Chinese corruption officials will be very happy.
> 
> 
> 
> just run around if you have benzine, but don make provocative actions in our EZZ.


You have no EZZ


----------



## Rechoice

hurt said:


> You have no EZZ



We submitted to UNCLOS, we don't care what sea pirates is barking.


----------



## hurt

Rechoice said:


> We submitted to UNCLOS, we don't care what sea pirates is barking.


Our naval artillery should care you.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

*Vietnam: Over 500 illegal incursions by Chinese fishing boats in 2013*





Photo: Last year Vietnam established its own Coast Guard/Maritime Security Force is response to China

Border guards in the south central city of Da Nang said Wednesday they had detected Chinese fishing boats illegally entering Vietnamese waters on 516 occasions last year, 223 more than in the previous year, Tuoi Tre (Youth) newspaper reported.





Colonel Duong De Dung, the commander of Da Nang Border Guard, said at a conference that Chinese fishing boats illegally entered Vietnamese territory to fish, and usually in groups of 25-32.

They were accompanied by armed vessels and transport ships when they came deep into Vietnamese territory.
The Da Nang border guard said they usually reached the scene as soon as they detected the boats and ordered the Chinese fishermen to leave immediately.

In most cases, the order was obeyed, it said.

The Chinese boats usually entered Vietnamese waters during bad weather when there were no border guard patrols, it added.
Related: Vietnam: Over 500 illegal incursions by Chinese fishing boats in 2013 | Peace and Freedom



hurt said:


> You have no EZZ


SURE








hurt said:


> Our naval artillery should care you.


Kerry announces new US maritime security aid to Vietnam amid China tensions, pushes reforms | Fox News
I believe we will get 5 types of such patrol boats this year. good enough to scare sea pirates.


----------



## cirr

Rechoice said:


> big ship, more money. Chinese corruption officials will be very happy.
> 
> 
> 
> just run around if you have benzine, but don make provocative actions in our EZZ.



lolo。

Chinese officials are not as nearly corrupt as their Vietnamese counterparts.

Chinese officials at least get things done, unlike their Vietnamese "colleagues" who are nothing but idle and helpless beings.

By the way, at least *41* 3000-tonne plus CCG vessels have been counted under construction. You guys will be given hard chases in the SCS soon if not already。Cheers。

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Genesis

cirr said:


> lolo。
> 
> Chinese officials are not as nearly corrupt as their Vietnamese counterparts.
> 
> Chinese officials at least get things done, unlike their Vietnamese "colleagues" who are nothing but idle and helpless beings.
> 
> By the way, at least *41* 3000-tonne plus CCG vessels have been counted under construction. You guys will be given hard chases in the SCS soon if not already。Cheers。



What are these vessels armed with? Is it just cannons, Gatling guns and minor weapons? Also the hose, from what I can see.


----------



## Viet

Genesis said:


> What are these vessels armed with? Is it just cannons, Gatling guns and minor weapons? Also the hose, from what I can see.


our patrol vessel has no water cannon, but...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## CN.Black

Viet said:


> our patrol vessel has no water cannon, but...


 So what?Don't forget our South Sea Fleet has dozens of warships.


----------



## Viet

CN.Black said:


> So what?Don't forget our South Sea Fleet has dozens of warships.


lol, so what? do you want to start a war?


----------



## Fsjal

I'd like to ram that floating piece of sh*t with the BRP Gregorio del Pilar.

Probably sinks if Philippine coast guards shoot it with a few machine gun rounds.


----------



## Viet

Fsjal said:


> I'd like to ram that floating piece of sh*t with the BRP Gregorio del Pilar.
> 
> Probably sinks if Philippine coast guards shoot it with a few machine gun rounds.


ha ha ha ...do you want to confront us with your cheap vessels?
wait until your turn.


----------



## Fsjal

Viet said:


> ha ha ha ...do you want to confront us with your cheap vessels?
> wait until your turn.


Wait? How about now if Vietnam has a super duper navy.


----------



## Viet

Fsjal said:


> Wait? How about now if Vietnam has a super duper navy.


we are just strong enough to discourage any adventures from other hostile nations.
such as this toy:

Coming soon in the SC Sea, Vietnam 4 self produced Molniya guided missile corvettes (under Russia licence), equipped with up to 16 Uran subsonic anti- ship missiles (250 kilometers). Do your vessels have any long range missiles? the battle is over before you realise what happens.


----------



## ice bomb

You do realise that missile range is useless if you dont have the C4r to support it? What off bord sensor package does this corvette have? How do it identify friend or foes? It is a 500 ton corvette. Give us a break.


----------



## Mr Second

Viet said:


> we are just strong enough to discourage any adventures from other hostile nations.
> such as this toy:
> 
> Coming soon in the SC Sea, Vietnam 4 self produced Molniya guided missile corvettes (under Russia licence), equipped with up to 16 Uran subsonic anti- ship missiles (250 kilometers). Do your vessels have any long range missiles? the battle is over before you realise what happens.


This is "Poisonous Spider class missile boar", made in Russia, especially for coast patrol. BTW, if Vietnam could, Russian weapons are not a good choice.

This is the coast patrol in China for the same use





I Think Vietnam leaders are enough wise to consider about Indian experiences. Russia has cheated a lot of Money from India army, they are just a terrible businessman, will not help other sincerly.


----------



## Mr Second

About aircraft, maybe Vietnam can try our airfigher "JAS airfighter", made by SAAB. Sincerly, much better than cheap Su30.


----------



## Mr Second

It is impossible for China to declare a totol war with Vietnam and Vietnam leaders also know to keep a good relation with China, not metter for the economy or security. On the military building, if could, Vietnam should learn from Singapore, who is the strongest economy and military in the South East Asia now. Keeping a good relation both with China and USA, since they are two most powerful country in the future, and buy weapons from western countries, whatever USA, Europé or Japan(Very nice weapons but Vietnam needs to ask a good price). About Russia, Without Selling weapons or rescources, I can hardly find what they can do on economy.


----------



## Viva_Viet

Mr Second said:


> About aircraft, maybe Vietnam can try our airfigher "JAS airfighter", made by SAAB. Sincerly, much better than cheap Su30.


I think its equipped wt US's engine.


----------



## Mr Second

Viva_Viet said:


> I think its equipped wt US's engine.


No, the motor is from Volvo, made in Sweden.


----------



## Viet

ice bomb said:


> You do realise that missile range is useless if you dont have the C4r to support it? What off bord sensor package does this corvette have? How do it identify friend or foes? It is a 500 ton corvette. Give us a break.


oh I forget to tell you that Vietnam is a poor nation, can only afford light 500 tonne vessels and useless missiles.



Mr Second said:


> It is impossible for China to declare a totol war with Vietnam and Vietnam leaders also know to keep a good relation with China, not metter for the economy or security. On the military building, if could, Vietnam should learn from Singapore, who is the strongest economy and military in the South East Asia now. Keeping a good relation both with China and USA, since they are two most powerful country in the future, and buy weapons from western countries, whatever USA, Europé or Japan(Very nice weapons but Vietnam needs to ask a good price). About Russia, Without Selling weapons or rescources, I can hardly find what they can do on economy.


America still imposes weapons embargo on Vietnam, so there is no option.
it is very unlikely China arms Vietnam, as it is too much political rivalry between the two´s.
Japan has self imposed weapons export restrictions.
So Vietnam has few options but continues to buy weapons and technologies from Russia.

Singapore is on the sunny side.


----------



## BoQ77

During the Vietnam War of the 1960s and 1970s, Japan had consistently encouraged a negotiated settlement at the earliest possible date. Even before the hostilities ended, it had made contact with the Democratic Republic of Vietnam (North Vietnam) government and had reached an agreement to establish diplomatic relations in September 1973. Implementation, however, was delayed by North Vietnamese demands that Japan pay the equivalent of US$45 million in World War II reparations in two yearly installments, in the form of "economic cooperation" grants. Giving in to the Vietnamese demands, Japan paid the money and opened an embassy in Hanoi on October 11, 1975 following the unification of North Vietnam and South Vietnam into the Socialist Republic of Vietnam.


----------



## cirr

CCG 1401 and 3306 launched on the same day(23.01.2104):












The fun has hardly begun.


----------



## cirr

Tip of the iceberg，the iceberg being China's 5-year construction plan for law enforcement vessels


----------



## EastSea

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2827/9909045933_e09ce9e4ee_o.jpg


----------



## hurt

EastSea said:


> http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2827/9909045933_e09ce9e4ee_o.jpg


We show you 11000 tons,you show us 1000 tons.


----------



## cirr

hurt said:


> We show you 11000 tons,you show us 1000 tons.



As a matter of fact，they are 12500 tons of steel。


----------



## Viet

hurt said:


> We show you 11000 tons,you show us 1000 tons.


1,400 tons. but I wonder why you need a such heavy patrol vessel? for what purpose?


----------



## typoerror

Viet said:


> 1,400 tons. but I wonder why you need a such heavy patrol vessel? for what purpose?


To ram into your fishing vessals and naval vessels dude. The new Chinese naval art is not shoot shoot. its dash dash.


----------



## Viet

cirr said:


> As a matter of fact，they are 12500 tons of steel。


whatever...I read VN army can now self produce Yakhont supersonic antiship missiles (range 300km) using Russia licence.
no vessel can survive after being hit.


----------



## hurt

Viet said:


> whatever...I read VN army can now self produce Yakhont supersonic antiship missiles (range 300km) using Russia licence.
> no vessel can´t survive after being hit.


Plz tell me how you find a ship in rang 300km


----------



## Viet

hurt said:


> Plz tell me how you find a ship in rang 300km


google is your friend

Yahont Antiship Missile

1. Preliminary targeting
2. Launch phase
3. Acceleration and ascent
4. High-altitude cruise phase
5. Diving phase
6. Seeker head activation and acquisition of target
7. Descent and low-altitude flight
8. Seeker head repeated activation and missile homing
*




*


----------



## hurt

Viet said:


> google is your friend
> 
> Yahont Antiship Missile
> 
> 1. Preliminary targeting
> 2. Launch phase
> 3. Acceleration and ascent
> 4. High-altitude cruise phase
> 5. Diving phase
> 6. Seeker head activation and acquisition of target
> 7. Descent and low-altitude flight
> 8. Seeker head repeated activation and missile homing
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


Helicopter


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> whatever...I read VN army can now self produce Yakhont supersonic antiship missiles (range 300km) using Russia licence.
> no vessel can survive after being hit.



Using the missile against the unarmed maritime surveillance ship is the violation against the international rule.


----------



## cirr

CCG 1401 launched：


----------



## cirr

*CCG 3306* launched：
















Another double-hull oceanographic survey vessel for the PLAN in the making behind CCG 3306：


----------



## cirr

CCG 2401 inducted：


----------



## cirr

A new *Type 054A FFG* under construction：
















Together with a new Type 056 corvette：






Shoulder to shoulder：






Last but not least，CMS 3015 ready to roll：






HPS is pretty busy these days and it is gonna get only busier。The other two，bigger yards（Longxue and GSI）in Guangzhou are also getting mighty busy of late。Bigger、Heavier and Faster！That's the slogan！！


----------



## Rechoice

cirr said:


> HPS is pretty busy these days and it is gonna get only busier。The other two，bigger yards（Longxue and GSI）in Guangzhou are also getting mighty busy of late。Bigger、Heavier and Faster！That's the slogan！！



and run to rocks.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## hurt

Viet said:


> google is your friend
> 
> Yahont Antiship Missile
> 
> 1. Preliminary targeting
> 2. Launch phase
> 3. Acceleration and ascent
> 4. High-altitude cruise phase
> 5. Diving phase
> 6. Seeker head activation and acquisition of target
> 7. Descent and low-altitude flight
> 8. Seeker head repeated activation and missile homing
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


google maps is your friend.

300 km can't reach xisha Islands.

Ps
Your Ka-27s are not AEW ,only find ships about 100 km .


----------



## Viet

hurt said:


> google maps is your friend.
> 
> 300 km can't reach xisha Islands.
> 
> Ps
> Your Ka-27s are not AEW ,only find ships about 100 km .


google makes you smarter.
yakhont missiles are guided by its own radar *Monolit*, range extended by helicopter radar.


----------



## haidian

Chinese Missiles Aimed At Philippines and Vietnam


----------



## hurt

Viet said:


> google makes you smarter.
> yakhont missiles are guided by its own radar *Monolit*, range extended by helicopter radar.


But google maps cant make you smarter.
300 km missile can't do anything for xisha and nansha Islands.


----------



## NiceGuy

hurt said:


> But google maps cant make you smarter.
> 300 km missile can't do anything for xisha and nansha Islands.


Yakhont is anti-ship missile, and it is fitted with Su-30.







haidian said:


> Chinese Missiles Aimed At Philippines and Vietnam


Our scud missile also aimed at China , with the range of 500-700 km, your Hong Kong is a dead meat'


> *Vietnam warns on sea disputes with attack weapons armed for Kilo Subs*
> 
> *(Soha News) The original design of the Kilo 636 submarines without arming missiles to destroy targets on land (sea-to-surface/ sea-to-ground missile). But Vietnam's Russian- built Kilo 636MV submarines are equipped with 3M-14E missiles for ground attack.*
> 
> 
> 
> *The requirement of Vietnam*
> 
> With a view to arming to defend the country's sovereignty without using or threatening to invade other countries, Weapons that Vietnam has bought are only defensive. The missile used for land attack, or destroy targets on land, is not considered as defensive weapons.
> 
> For this viewpoint, the only exception is that Vietnam armed Scud missiles (ground to groumd missile). They are fitted amid the historical context when Vietnam and China have deeply conflicted, Vietnam armed Scud to regard as deterrent weapons to avoid a war similar to 1979.
> ..........
> In this context, Vietnam called to equip itself with the weapons that can stop the Chinese forces in Hainan Island. And the 3M-14E missile, a range of 290 km, 400 kg warhead was chosen. The vessel for carrying this missile is the Kilo 636MV submarine which can reach and launch the steel punches to paralyze the enemy bases. With the lack of support from the Air Force as well as logistics resupply techniques, Chinese forces fighting in the South China Sea will fall into difficult situations.
> 
> Then Vietnam will use Air Force aircrafts including the Su-30MK2, Su-30MK2V, Su-27,... and Navy surface ships with submarines sorties from Central Coast aided by anti-aircraft and ground-to-sea missiles (S-300, K-300P Bastion-P, 4K44B Redut, Uran E,...) Vietnam will fully control the South China Sea.
> Asitimes: Vietnam warns on sea disputes with attack weapons armed for Kilo Subs


----------



## haidian

ha ,your primitive dozen "missiles" will be wiped out before you know it.


----------



## Rechoice

haidian said:


> ha ,your primitive dozen "missiles" will be wiped out before you know it.



China is weaker than US 1972.


----------



## NiceGuy

haidian said:


> ha ,your primitive dozen "missiles" will be wiped out before you know it.


I think war between VN-China soon will break out again if China dont return our islands. As long as US commit Not to side with China to attack VN like in 1979, Im sure China will taste our steel punch soon 

China citizen had better evacuate out of Hai Nan island from now


----------



## hurt

NiceGuy said:


> Yakhont is anti-ship missile, and it is fitted with Su-30.


I am sorry to tell you the truths.
1.the fighter in the pic is S-33
2.Kh-61 as a air anti ship missile different from land version.
3.your Su-30 can't use Kh-61 until now
4.at last ,viet only can product SS-N-25.
never Yakhont

Russia, Vietnam to Jointly Manufacture Anti-Ship Missiles | World | RIA Novosti



Rechoice said:


> China is weaker than US 1972.


But I think that There is no alive north viet person in scs 1972.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

NiceGuy said:


> I think war between VN-China soon will break out again if China dont return our islands. As long as US commit Not to side with China to attack VN like in 1979, Im sure China will taste our steel punch soon
> 
> China citizen had better evacuate out of Hai Nan island from now



Stop dreaming, your army will get squashed like an eggshell, ask any unbiased non-Chinese members here if i am lying or not.

BTW, we will launch CZ-5 in this year and CZ-9 in 2020, if you like to pay a visit to Hainan province to see those marvelous rockets in the near future.

CZ-5






CZ-9


----------



## NiceGuy

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Stop dreaming, your army will get squashed like an eggshell, ask any unbiased non-Chinese members here if i am lying or not.


Lets see who will get squashed . I think ur corrupted generals will sh1t on their pant when coming to real war 

U know why Mr. Xi must arrest some gens now ?/ coz he knows war with VN is coming soon. But Xi's action is too late , none of ur gens know how to command in Real battle now , they only good at robbing money from poor Chinese peasants 



hurt said:


> I am sorry to tell you the truths.
> 1.the fighter in the pic is S-33
> 2.Kh-61 as a air anti ship missile different from land version.
> 3.your Su-30 can't use Kh-61 until now
> 4.at last ,viet only can product SS-N-25.
> never Yakhont
> 
> Russia, Vietnam to Jointly Manufacture Anti-Ship Missiles | World | RIA Novosti


Whatever, its still anti-ship missile and it still can sink ur cheap war ship


----------



## hurt

NiceGuy said:


> I think war between VN-China soon will break out again if China dont return our islands. As long as US commit Not to side with China to attack VN like in 1979, Im sure China will taste our steel punch soon
> 
> China citizen had better evacuate out of Hai Nan island from now

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## hurt

NiceGuy said:


> Our scud missile also aimed at China , with the range of 500-700 km, your Hong Kong is a dead meat'


kid ,Scud-B range only 300km



NiceGuy said:


> Lets see who will get squashed . I think ur corrupted generals will sh1t on their pant when coming to real war
> 
> U know why Mr. Xi must arrest some gens now ?/ coz he knows war with VN is coming soon. But Xi's action is too late , none of ur gens know how to command in Real battle now , they only good at robbing money from poor Chinese peasants
> 
> 
> Whatever, its still anti-ship missile and it still can sink ur cheap war ship


Less than 130 km


----------



## NiceGuy

hurt said:


> kid ,Scud-B range only 300km


Our scud range is 500-700 km now


> n December 1996, Vietnam’s Deputy Minister of Defense, General Nguyen Thoi Bung,visited North Korea and signed a defense deal worth U.S. $100 million. Payment was inbarter terms for Vietnamese rice. The sale of short‐range Scud ballistic missiles wasreportedly discussed at this time. In April 1999 it was reported that Vietnam had acquired aquantity of North Korean Scud C surface‐to‐surface missiles (SSMs). The Scud C can carry apayload of 770 kg over* 550 km*. In February 2009 it was reported that Hanoi andPyongyang were currently discussing North Korean assistance in upgrading Vietnam’s stockof Scud SSMs.
> Thayer Vietnam Bares Scud Missile Force





hurt said:


> Less than 130 km


250km infact 


> The Uran subsonic anti-ship missile can be launched from helicopters, surface ships and coastal defense batteries. It has a range of up to 250 kilometers (135 nautical miles) and carries a 145-kilogram high explosive warhead.


Russia, Vietnam to Jointly Manufacture Anti-Ship Missiles | World | RIA Novosti


----------



## hurt

NiceGuy said:


> 250km infact


Kh-35 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## S10

ViXuyen said:


> Viet Nam and China should be territory swap. Viet Nam gets more land while China gets more sea area.


I have a better idea. We get both the land and the sea.


----------



## NiceGuy

hurt said:


> Kh-35 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Kh-35 that Russia transfer technology to VN even has the range up to 260 km


> Tên lửa Kh-35 (Х-35) được chế tạo để tiêu diệt các tầu đổ bộ các chiến hạm mặt nước, tầu vận tải có lượng giãn nước đến 5000 tấn. Nga đã chuyển giao công nghệ cho Việt Nam tự sản xuất Kh-35 từ năm 2012.
> ........
> Nước sản xuất: Liên bang Nga
> 
> *Tầm bắn cực đại: đến 260 km
> 
> 'Sát thủ diệt hạm' Việt Nam tự sản xuất có gì đặc biệt? | Người lính | Báo điện tử Tiền Phong*


Max range:up to 260km


----------



## hurt

NiceGuy said:


> Kh-35 that Russia transfer technology to VN even has the range up to 260 km
> 
> Max range:up to 260km


I am sorry to tell you the truth:
Kh-35U range is 260 km, but
Viet only can product Kh-35E(130KM).
Kỳ 10: Tên lửa Kh-35 và kế hoạch "made in Vietnam" | soha.vn


----------



## Viet

hurt said:


> I am sorry to tell you the truth:
> Kh-35U range is 260 km, but
> Viet only can product Kh-35E(130KM).
> Kỳ 10: Tên lửa Kh-35 và kế hoạch "made in Vietnam" | soha.vn


don´t forget, we also have this toy: Vietnam MIG-21 and SU-22 can carry airborne KH-25s.












Vietnam Fighter Get More New Missiles - RP Defense

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NiceGuy

hurt said:


> I am sorry to tell you the truth:
> Kh-35U range is 260 km, but
> Viet only can product Kh-35E(130KM).
> Kỳ 10: Tên lửa Kh-35 và kế hoạch "made in Vietnam" | soha.vn


'Tienphong' is more credible than 'Soha ' coz 'Tien phong' can issue news on paper when soha can not.

And 'tienphong' said: VN produce Kh-35 with max range: 260km


----------



## Wholegrain

NiceGuy said:


> 'Tienphong' is more credible than 'Soha ' coz 'Tien phong' can issue news on paper when soha can not.
> 
> And 'tienphong' said: VN produce Kh-35 with max range: 260km



And the incompetent Vietnamese purchase their scuds entirely from Russia and cannot manufacture a single missle, plane, or boat by themselves, while China has thousands of ballistic missles it made ITSELF and can blanket the entire Vietnam from Hanoi to Saigon in a massive hail of warheads...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> don´t forget, we also have this toy: Vietnam MIG-21 and SU-22 can carry airborne KH-25s.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vietnam Fighter Get More New Missiles - RP Defense



Well, all your airports are being locked within the target, you cannot takeoff your aircrafts without it.


----------



## NiceGuy

Wholegrain said:


> And the incompetent Vietnamese purchase their scuds entirely from Russia and cannot manufacture a single missle, plane, or boat by themselves, while China has thousands of ballistic missles it made ITSELF and can blanket the entire Vietnam from Hanoi to Saigon in a massive hail of warheads...


Oh, useless China army brag again like in 1979 "breakfast in Ha Noi, lunch in Hue, dinner in Sai Gon" .....But those poor train-coward had to withdraw after few weeks with mass casualty when facing our local militia 

Pls note that : China also has thousands of ballistic missles it made ITSELF in 1979 .



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Well, all your airports are being locked within the target, you cannot takeoff your aircrafts without it.


Really ??? even mighty US force can not do that , so u think ur poor trained PLA can ??

wet dream of a paranoid


----------



## hurt

Viet said:


> don´t forget, we also have this toy: Vietnam MIG-21 and SU-22 can carry airborne KH-25s.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vietnam Fighter Get More New Missiles - RP Defense


Why not crash into out ships by your poor Mig-21 and Su-22?


----------



## NiceGuy

hurt said:


> Why not crash into out ships by your poor Mig-21 and Su-22?


U should ask urself why VN still control the largest part of Spratly when we just have "poor Mig-21 and Su-22"


----------



## hurt

NiceGuy said:


> 'Tienphong' is more credible than 'Soha ' coz 'Tien phong' can issue news on paper when soha can not.
> 
> And 'tienphong' said: VN produce Kh-35 with max range: 260km



Maybe in your dream



NiceGuy said:


> U should ask urself why VN still control the largest part of Spratly when we just have "poor Mig-21 and Su-22"


Don't worry，coming soon.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

NiceGuy said:


> Oh, useless China army brag again like in 1979 "breakfast in Ha Noi, lunch in Hue, dinner in Sai Gon" .....But those poor train-coward had to withdraw after few weeks with mass casualty when facing our local militia
> 
> Pls note that : China also has thousands of ballistic missles it made ITSELF in 1979 .
> 
> 
> Really ??? even mighty US force can not do that , so u think ur poor trained PLA can ??
> 
> wet dream of a paranoid



The US army in the 1970s had no GPS yet, well PLA has Beidou that is already covering the entire Asia-Pacific, and the entire World after 5-6 years.


----------



## NiceGuy

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The US army in the 1970s had no GPS yet, well PLA has Beidou that is already covering the entire Asia-Pacific, and the entire World after 5-6 years.


And we still dont see China army can do it in Real war , what we only see is corrupted Chinese generals robbing money from poor people


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

NiceGuy said:


> And we still dont see China army can do it in Real war , what we only see is corrupted Chinese generals robbing money from poor people



The US army has far more scandals than PLA, but do you truly believe that they can't obliterate the tiny Vietnam.

And do you truly believe your army is just like in 40 years ago?


----------



## NiceGuy

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The US army has far more scandals than PLA, but do you truly believe that they can't obliterate the tiny Vietnam.


Yes, of course I believe they cant . if they could, they would not withdraw in 1973.


> And do you truly believe your army is just like in 40 years ago?


We got war in Camb against Pol pot-Thailand until 1989, so our army still in high morale and ready to fight now.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

NiceGuy said:


> Yes, of course I believe they cant . if they could, they would not withdraw in 1973.
> 
> We got war in Camb against Pol pot-Thailand until 1989, so our army still in high morale and ready to fight now.



Nowadays the military technology has greatly evolved.

To fight a technologically backward country like Vietnam doesn't need much of spirit and courage, all PLA needs is to be the happy trigger.

One trigger of button, all missiles and drones will send there to annihilate your technologically backward army.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## hurt

NiceGuy said:


> Oh, useless China army brag again like in 1979 "breakfast in Ha Noi, lunch in Hue, dinner in Sai Gon" .....But those poor train-coward had to withdraw after few weeks with mass casualty when facing our local militia
> 
> Pls note that : China also has thousands of ballistic missles it made ITSELF in 1979 .


There is no thousands of ballistic missles in 1979.



NiceGuy said:


> Really ??? even mighty US force can not do that , so u think ur poor trained PLA can ??
> 
> wet dream of a paranoid


Wake up!

US force don't do that because China.

Now


----------



## NiceGuy

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Nowadays the military technology has greatly evolved.
> 
> To fight a technologically backward country like Vietnam doesn't need much of spirit and courage, all PLA needs is to be the happy trigger.
> 
> One trigger of button, all missiles and drones will send there to annihilate your technologically backward army.


China has lots of missile in 1979 too. And if u like 'missile war', then we have enough Scub to wipe out South China,too

Problem is ur corrupted generals dont have the guts to start a 'missile war' with Vn 



hurt said:


> There is no thousands of ballistic missles in 1979.


China even has nuke missile in 1979. lie is no good 


> Wake up!
> 
> US force don't do that because China.
> 
> Now


Paranoid again ?? China army can't even win against VN local militia in surprise attack


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

NiceGuy said:


> China has lots of missile in 1979 too. And if u like 'missile war', then we have enough Scub to wipe out South China,too
> 
> Problem is ur corrupted generals dont have the guts to start a 'missile war' with Vn



No, our army was technologically backward compared the current one.

We had only few ICBMs to defend against USSR, our army still used mostly artillery against Vietnam in 1979.


----------



## ViXuyen

Wholegrain said:


> And the incompetent Vietnamese purchase their scuds entirely from Russia and cannot manufacture a single missle, plane, or boat by themselves, while China has thousands of ballistic missles it made ITSELF and *can blanket the entire Vietnam from Hanoi to Saigon in a massive hail of warheads*...


What a joke. In 11 days of air attack from America in 1972, they mustered 200 B-52 bombers and 2000 fixed wing fighters to drop 20,000 TNT on Ha Noi and Hai Phong and it did not even break us. Now you are talking about some ballistic missiles that can break our backs? Get out of here rookie


----------



## ViXuyen

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Nowadays the military technology has greatly evolved.
> 
> To fight a technologically backward country like Vietnam doesn't need much of spirit and courage, all PLA needs is to be the happy trigger.
> 
> One trigger of button, all missiles and drones will send there to annihilate your technologically backward army.


 What a joke. In 11 days of air attack from America in 1972, they mustered 200 B-52 bombers and 2000 fixed wing fighters to drop 20,000 TNT on Ha Noi and Hai Phong and it did not even break us. Now you are talking about some ballistic missiles that can break our backs? Get out of here rookie


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

ViXuyen said:


> What a joke. In 11 days of air attack from America in 1972, they mustered 200 B-52 bombers and 2000 fixed wing fighters to drop 20,000 TNT on Ha Noi and Hai Phong and it did not even break us. Now you are talking about some ballistic missiles that can break our backs? Get out of here rookie



Because they didn't have GPS yet, so without the precision of bombing, all the dropped ammunitions were wasted.

PLA with the Beidou system will have the pinpoint accuracy to bomb the entire Vietnam including its strategic targets.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NiceGuy

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> No, our army was technologically backward compared the current one.
> 
> We had only few ICBMs to defend against USSR, our army still used mostly artillery against Vietnam in 1979.


but PLA's morale in 1979 was much higher than today , ur soldier now can't fight like in 1979.

And ur generals now also are much corrupted than in 1979, they dont have any guts to fight with VN again, they only want more money from poor people


----------



## hurt

ViXuyen said:


> What a joke. In 11 days of air attack from America in 1972, they mustered 200 B-52 bombers and 2000 fixed wing fighters to drop 20,000 TNT on Ha Noi and Hai Phong and it did not even break us. Now you are talking about some ballistic missiles that can break our backs? Get out of here rookie


We don't need break you.
We just clear your Air Force and Navy.


----------



## ViXuyen

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Because they didn't have GPS yet, so without the precision of bombing, all the dropped ammunitions were wasted.
> 
> PLA with the Beidou system will have the pinpoint accuracy to bomb the entire Vietnam including its strategic targets.


 Wasted or not, 20,000 tons of TNT were dropped in Ha Noi and Haiphong by 200 B-52 bombers and 2000 fighters and that did not even shoke us. Your airforce don't even come anywhere close to the air power of America, rookie.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

NiceGuy said:


> but PLA's morale in 1979 was much higher than today , ur soldier now can't fight like in 1979.
> 
> And ur generals now also are much corrupted than in 1979, they dont have any guts to fight with VN again, they only want more money from poor people



The morale is the same, but the military technology is three generation of difference.

Just look at your own army, do these young boys and girls born in the 1980s and 1990s who spend most time with video game and ipad can still fight like their parent generation?


----------



## ViXuyen

hurt said:


> We don't need break you.
> We just clear your Air Force and Navy.


 Your type 99 will be shooting targets for our RPG-29. We produce those en masse. Good luck trying to move those tanks across the terrain of Lao Cai, Ha Giang, Cao Bang, and Lang Son


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

ViXuyen said:


> Wasted or not, 20,000 tons of TNT were dropped in Ha Noi and Haiphong by 200 B-52 bombers and 2000 fighters and that did not even shoke us. Your airforce don't even come anywhere close to the air power of America, rookie.



If it is the 20000 tons of TNT with high precision, your army would already be toasted.

The US has developed the GPS right after the Vietnam War because they thought that their previous war tactics weren't efficient enough.



ViXuyen said:


> Your type 99 will be shooting targets for our RPG-29. We produce those en masse. Good luck trying to move those tanks across the terrain of Lao Cai, Ha Giang, Cao Bang, and Lang Son



China doesn't need to send its tank troops to fight Vietnam, all China needs to do is to bomb you with missiles and drones, no casualty at all.


----------



## hurt

NiceGuy said:


> China even has nuke missile in 1979. lie is no good


Nuke missiles are not for your poor state.



NiceGuy said:


> Paranoid again ?? China army can't even win against VN local militia in surprise attack


You can ask US the reason of why not bomb your airport.


----------



## ViXuyen

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> If it is the 20000 tons of TNT with high precision, your army would already be toasted.
> 
> The US has developed the GPS right after the Vietnam War because they thought that their previous war tactics weren't efficient enough.


 20,000 tons of TNT were dropped with resulted in 1300 civilians casualties; that's pretty accurate there bunny. 20k TONS of TNT were designed to hit both civilian and miitary targets; not a moving column of army personnels



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> If it is the 20000 tons of TNT with high precision, your army would already be toasted.
> 
> The US has developed the GPS right after the Vietnam War because they thought that their previous war tactics weren't efficient enough.
> 
> 
> 
> China doesn't need to send its tank troops to fight Vietnam, all China needs to do is to bomb you with missiles and drones, no casualty at all.


 missiles and drones? So scary.....I guess this time your missiles and drones will delivered a combined more than 20,000 tons of TNT in just two cities of Ha Noi and Hai Phong...............I'm running now


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

ViXuyen said:


> 20,000 tons of TNT were dropped with resulted in 1300 civilians casualties; that's pretty accurate there bunny. 20k TONS of TNT were designed to hit both civilian and miitary targets; not a moving column of army personnels



That's why you will return to the guerrilla warfare tactics when fighting against PLA.

PLA will first blow all your air force and navy away, then you would have no choice but to go back and hide in the tunnel.

But PLA has no interest to occupy your land, but best option is to bomb your land and to make you suffering.


----------



## hurt

ViXuyen said:


> Your type 99 will be shooting targets for our RPG-29. We produce those en masse. Good luck trying to move those tanks across the terrain of Lao Cai, Ha Giang, Cao Bang, and Lang Son


I am sorry to tell you that plz arrive north of *Yangtze River first, then you maybe can see Type 99

Ps ：We destroy your Air Force and navy don't need Type 99
*


----------



## ViXuyen

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> That's why you will return to the guerrilla warfare tactics when fighting against PLA.
> 
> PLA will first blow all your air force and navy away, then you would have no choice but to go back and hide in the tunnel.
> 
> But PLA has no interest to occupy your land, but best option is to bomb your land and to make you suffering.


You talk a lot of xhit but your airforce does not even come close anywhere to the U.S in 1972 (200 B-52 bombers and 2000 fighters). At best you can launch a few missiles and us. Any land war with us we will toast you with ease.


----------



## hurt

ViXuyen said:


> missiles and drones? So scary.....I guess this time your missiles and drones will delivered a combined more than 20,000 tons of TNT in just two cities of Ha Noi and Hai Phong...............I'm running now


Kid,destroy your airport and harbor don't need so much TNT.



ViXuyen said:


> You talk a lot of xhit but your airforce does not even come close anywhere to the U.S in 1972 (200 B-52 bombers and 2000 fighters). At best you can launch a few missiles and us. Any land war with us we will toast you with ease.


We just get back Islands of nansha why need land war?


----------



## Wholegrain

ViXuyen said:


> What a joke. In 11 days of air attack from America in 1972, they mustered 200 B-52 bombers and 2000 fixed wing fighters to drop 20,000 TNT on Ha Noi and Hai Phong and it did not even break us. Now you are talking about some ballistic missiles that can break our backs? Get out of here rookie



Your friend was jacking off to some fantasy of conquering Hainan with scud missles.



NiceGuy said:


> I think war between VN-China soon will break out again if China dont return our islands. As long as US commit Not to side with China to attack VN like in 1979, Im sure China will taste our steel punch soon
> 
> China citizen had better evacuate out of Hai Nan island from now





NiceGuy said:


> U should ask urself why VN still control the largest part of Spratly when we just have "poor Mig-21 and Su-22"



Your pathetic nation whines and complains every time Taiwan holds a live fire drill on Taiping island, the largest Spratly island and the only one with a freshwater supply. (Not the sh1tty brakish water on your island). You also control ZERO percent of the paracels

Taiwan to hold live-fire drill in Spratlys - InterAksyon.com


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

ViXuyen said:


> You talk a lot of xhit but your airforce does not even come close anywhere to the U.S in 1972 (200 B-52 bombers and 2000 fighters). At best you can launch a few missiles and us. Any land war with us we will toast you with ease.



China's modern multi-dimentional warfare is far more deadly than the US military capability in the 1970s.

Having more outdated bombers and fighters mean nothing, the US in the WWII had even larger number of air force, but does this mean they were more powerful?

Today's warfare is not just aircraft vs aircraft, warship vs warship.

China's global systems will provide an incredible high efficient command and accuracy. It is multi-dimensional; second artillery + air force + navy + army + information warfare to fight you simultaneously.

Against a highly modernized army such as PLA, your outcome won't be much better than Saddam Hussein's army in the first Gulf War.


----------



## ViXuyen

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> China's modern multi-dimentional warfare is far more deadly than the US military capability in the 1970s.
> 
> Having more outdated bombers and fighters mean nothing, the US in the WWII had even larger number of air force, but does this mean they were more powerful?
> 
> Today's warfare is not just aircraft vs aircraft, warship vs warship.
> 
> China's global systems will provide an incredible high efficient command and accuracy. It is multi-dimensional; second artillery + air force + navy + army + information warfare to fight you simultaneously.
> 
> Against a highly modernized army such as PLA, your outcome won't be much better than Saddam Hussein's army in the first Gulf War.


 So scary but we still do not consider you anywhere close to the U.S in 1972. Your airforce comes no where close to the U.S in delivering 20k TONS of TNT on us. Your missiles come no where close to delivering 20K tons of TNT on us either. If there is a war between you and us, the outcome won't be much better than the 1979 war



Wholegrain said:


> Your friend was jacking off to some fantasy of conquering Hainan with scud missles.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your pathetic nation whines and complains every time Taiwan holds a live fire drill on Taiping island, the largest Spratly island and the only one with a freshwater supply. (Not the sh1tty brakish water on your island). You also control ZERO percent of the paracels
> 
> Taiwan to hold live-fire drill in Spratlys - InterAksyon.com


 You retard, Viet Nam control the Truong Sa Lon island that also has fresh water


----------



## Rechoice

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> China's modern multi-dimentional warfare is far more deadly than the US military capability in the 1970s.
> 
> Having more outdated bombers and fighters mean nothing, the US in the WWII had even larger number of air force, but does this mean they were more powerful?
> 
> Today's warfare is not just aircraft vs aircraft, warship vs warship.
> 
> China's global systems will provide an incredible high efficient command and accuracy. It is multi-dimensional; second artillery + air force + navy + army + information warfare to fight you simultaneously.
> 
> Against a highly modernized army such as PLA, your outcome won't be much better than Saddam Hussein's army in the first Gulf War.



don't cry again, useless PLA.









Wholegrain said:


> Your friend was jacking off to some fantasy of conquering Hainan with scud missles.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your pathetic nation whines and complains every time Taiwan holds a live fire drill on Taiping island, the largest Spratly island and the only one with a freshwater supply. (Not the sh1tty brakish water on your island). You also control ZERO percent of the paracels
> 
> Taiwan to hold live-fire drill in Spratlys - InterAksyon.com



we can take back in any time, kid.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## hurt

ViXuyen said:


> So scary but we still do not consider you anywhere close to the U.S in 1972. Your airforce comes no where close to the U.S in delivering 20k TONS of TNT on us. Your missiles come no where close to delivering 20K tons of TNT on us either. If there is a war between you and us, the outcome won't be much better than the 1979 war


Foolish boy .

Again,Clear your Air Force and navy don't need land war and drop TNT on your head.

If you like land war,attack yunnan and guangxi Plz.
There are hundred tanks can be shoot


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

ViXuyen said:


> So scary but we still do not consider you anywhere close to the U.S in 1972. Your airforce comes no where close to the U.S in delivering 20k TONS of TNT on us. Your missiles come no where close to delivering 20K tons of TNT on us either. If there is a war between you and us, the outcome won't be much better than the 1979 war
> 
> 
> You retard, Viet Nam control the Truong Sa Lon island that also has fresh water



Again, this is the modern warfare, don't stick in the past.

The 1970s had no modern warfare.

The modern US army has smaller number of army and nukes compared to the 1970s, but do you think that you can face them again?


----------



## ViXuyen

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Again, this is the modern warfare, don't stick in the past.
> 
> The 1970s had no modern warfare.
> 
> The modern US army has smaller number of army and nukes compared to the 1970s, but do you think that you can face them again?


Modern warfare involves a lot of electronic countermeasure which your side has ZERO experience in while we had plenty of.

Your military does not come close to the U.S so don't compare them to you. We dealt with the U.S when our servicemen did not even have any experience of modern warfare back in the 60's so you think we'll fare worse than a mediocre average joe military like yours in 2014? Damn, we must be drinking and sleeping in the past 50 years. 

We do not even consider your supa bowa air bowa to be anythiing close to being a threat. I've said this before, $5 billion USD we put into buying 6 submarines and building their infrastructures could have put into S-300, BukM2, TorM2 missile systems but we did not do that. Simply put, we don't consider your air bowa as a threat.

I've said this before and will say this again, if you try anything like the 1979 land incursion again we will make you look like a third-rated military bowa pretty quick.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

ViXuyen said:


> *Modern warfare involves a lot of electronic countermeasure which your side has ZERO experience in while we had plenty of.*
> 
> Your military does not come close to the U.S so don't compare them to you. We dealt with the U.S when our servicemen did not even have any experience of modern warfare back in the 60's so you think we'll fare worse than a mediocre average joe military like yours in 2014? Damn, we must be drinking and sleeping in the past 50 years.
> 
> We do not even consider your supa bowa air bowa to be anythiing close to being a threat. I've said this before, $5 billion USD we put into buying 6 submarines and building their infrastructures could have put into S-300, BukM2, TorM2 missile systems but we did not do that. Simply put, we don't consider your air bowa as a threat.
> 
> I've said this before and will say this again, if you try anything like the 1979 land incursion again we will make you look like a third-rated military bowa pretty quick.



This is the biggest joke of the century.

BTW, US now comes right after China for its Asia-Pacific Pivot, because they even view you guys as a worthless opponent.


----------



## NiceGuy

hurt said:


> You can ask US the reason of why not bomb your airport.


Hey, what did ur history teacher taught u guys in school ??]


> _“On this mission, my log shows that the target was *Kep Airfield.* I lost my DC generator on the tanker and had to turn off my navigation equipment. Don Revers, Pistol Lead, lost his AC generator so Pistol #4, Sam Morgan wound up as mission commander. Bob Elliot was #2 and I was #3. Takhli weather aborted 5 minutes ahead of us and we did also a minute later so there were all sorts of Thuds in a small airspace. Half way through the 180, we were jumped by Mig-21’s. They fired heat seekers—one hit Doug Beyer who was Hatchet #4. He landed safely at Danang. My comment in my log was that this was a fiasco and we should never have been sent up in that weather condition._
> ...........
> “_On 24 October, my 11th mission, we struck Phuc* Yen Airfield*. This was their primary Mig 21 base just Northwest of Hanoi. Up to this point it had been off limits for attack. We never did strike the civil airfield (Gia Lam) outside Hanoi although it was widely known that Migs sometimes used it. LBJ and McNamara had this dumb idea that we would gradually increase the targets we were willing to strike and this was the way to get the North Vietnamese to sue for peace. Our wing came in first using the land route and dropped CBU’s along the flight line to hit the Migs in their revetments. Takhli rolled in just behind us with 3,000# bombs to destroy the runway. The F-4C’s followed them with bombs and maybe even the Navy got in on this historic attack. I think we surprised them and did some considerable damage. There were no U.S. losses. No SA-2s were fired and the 85mm flak was spotty. I was written up for a Silver Star on this mission but it was downgraded to a Distinguished Flying Cross. This was the first of three Silver Star downgrades—so I never got one although many Thud pilots did._
> 
> _“The next day we went back to Phuc Yen. That time, we were attacked on the way in, by Migs. Our flight punched off our bombs and tanks and broke into the Migs. I suspect they abandoned their attack when we filled their windscreens with bombs and tanks. Anyhow, the rest of the flights got to the target safely. The next day I carried 3,000# bombs for the first time and was impressed how much sleeker the F-105 was with this load as opposed to the 750# bombs carried on the centerline. The target, Hu Gia between Thai Nyugen and Hanoi, was clearly under the clouds so the mission commander wisely directed us to hit the part of the rail line that was clear and we did so nicely. Two SA-2’s were fired without effect.”
> Robert W. Smith | 5 - Limited Weapons, Assured Defeat_





ChineseTiger1986 said:


> This is the biggest joke of the century.
> 
> BTW, US now comes right after China for its Asia-Pacific Pivot, because they even view you guys as a worthless opponent.


US comes to exploit , harrass and enslave your people coz u r too weak and coward . China has lost TW, and seem like it will lose more land into US's hand in near future

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

NiceGuy said:


> Hey, what did ur history teacher taught u guys in school ??]
> 
> 
> 
> US comes to exploit , harrass and enslave your people coz u r too weak and coward . China has lost TW, and seem like it will lose more land into US's hand in near future



Nah, once we finish dealing with USA, we will have more fun with you guys.

You can keep running your mouth how Vietnam is the superpower blahblahblah, but it doesn't change the fact that you are still a bottom feeder in the food chain, no one will ever respect you technologically backward nation.

Ask the members here, Pakistanis, Indians, Westerners, do these guys really give a damn about you?

Indians and Westerners love to troll China because they are jealous of our achievement, no one would waste their time to troll a loser country.


----------



## Wholegrain

Rechoice said:


> don't cry again, useless PLA.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> we can take back in any time, kid.



You've never controlled Taiping island and you'll never get it back. 



NiceGuy said:


> Hey, what did ur history teacher taught u guys in school ??]
> 
> 
> 
> US comes to exploit and harrass and enslave your people coz u r too weak and coward . China has lost TW, and seem like it will lose more land into US's hand in near future



This is what happened to the Vietnamese militia in 1979....

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NiceGuy

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Nah, once we finish dealing with USA, we will have more fun with you guys.
> 
> You can keep running your mouth how Vietnam is the superpower blahblahblah, but it doesn't change the fact that you are still a bottom feeder in the food chain, no one will ever respect you technologically backward nation.
> 
> Ask the members here, Pakistanis, Indians, Westerners, do these guys really give a damn about you?
> 
> Indians and Westerners love to troll China because they are jealous of our achievement, no one would waste their time to troll a loser country.


Its not trolling, I just simply tell the Truth. China army suck and corrupted, 1979 war prove that, even with US daddy protection, PLA still lost badly against Vn local militia. In1990, 11 Chinese troops killed mercilessly in Gaven reef of Spralty, China dare not open an investigation coz that time, US daddy left China already .

in 1997, VN supported Mr. Hun Sen to stage a coup and kick pro-China party out of Camb, China also keep its mouth shut.

And now, after so many humiliating defaced by VN, Chinese here still brag that they r suppa bowal blah blah even when its Taiwan still under US's occupation, what ashamed


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

NiceGuy said:


> Its not trolling, I just simply tell the Truth. China army suck, 1979 war prove that, even with US daddy protection, OLA still lost badly against Vn local militia. Until 1990, 11 Chinese troops killed mercilessly in Gave reef of Spralty, China dare not open an investigation coz that time, US daddy left China already .
> 
> in 1997, VN supported Mr. Hun Sen to stage a coup and kick pro-China party out of Camb, China also keep its mouth shut.
> 
> And now, after so many humiliating defaced by VN, Chinese here still brag that they r suppa bowal blah blah even when its Taiwan still under US's occupation, what ashamed



More nonsense, it won't change the fact that your army is technologically backward.

You can't even build a single bullet.


----------



## NiceGuy

Wholegrain said:


> This is what happened to the Vietnamese militia in 1979....



They r women, Im so proud that VN women militia could kill so many 'well trained' PLA troops before they had no more bullet left and die in the surprise attack like that .

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ViXuyen

This is what we did to your women in 1979 war


----------



## NiceGuy

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> More nonsense, it won't change the fact that your army is technologically backward.
> .


it also won't change the fact that your generals r so coward and corrupted, they dare not open an investigation to find out who killed 11 Chinese troops in Gaven reef in 1990.

China army is corrupted to the core, no chance for u to win in SCS(east sea) now


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

NiceGuy said:


> They r women, Im so proud that VN women militia could kill so many 'well trained' PLA troops before they had no more bullet left and die in the surprise attack like that .



They got treated nicely by PLA, we are civilized people who treat the pow well.


----------



## ViXuyen

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> This is the biggest joke of the century.
> 
> BTW, US now comes right after China for its Asia-Pacific Pivot, because they even view you guys as a worthless opponent.


 And you can't even beat a worthless opponent, what a joke on how much you guys are worth.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

ViXuyen said:


> This is what we did to your women in 1979 war



When there is war, there will be casualty and martyrs' families.

But the problem is that in modern war with China, your side will suffer 100 times of more casualty than China.



ViXuyen said:


> And you can't even beat a worthless opponent, what a joke on how much you guys are worth.



USA doesn't want to get involved in Syria, does this mean they are not capable of defeating Syria?

It is up to your government, if they step our red line, then the missiles and drones will come after Vietnam.


----------



## ViXuyen

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> When there is war, there will be casualty and martyrs' families.
> 
> But the problem is that in modern war with China, your side will suffer 100 times of more casualty than China.


 Your generals barked the same thing that they would march to Ha Noi in 1 day when the 1979 war started anyway. You guys are all about talk..................ing xhit.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

ViXuyen said:


> Your generals barked the same thing that they would march to Ha Noi in 1 day when the 1979 war started anyway. You guys are all about talk..................ing xhit.



PLA's casualty in 1979

Guangdong: 1770
Yunnan: 1450
Guangxi: 1424
Hunan: 1288
Guizhou: 1057
Sichuan: 705
Henan: 571
Hubei: 547
Shandong: 438
Jiangsu: 380
Chongqing: 319
Jiangxi: 286
Fujian: 254
Anhui: 247
Hebei: 205
Zhejiang: 189
Shaanxi: 97
Hainan: 71
Shanxi: 56
Shanghai: 55
Gansu: 24
Liaoning: 18
Beijing: 17
Heilongjiang: 11
Jilin: 9
Tianjin: 6
Ningxia: 4
Inner Mongolia: 3
Qinghai: 3
Xinjiang: 2

1979年中越战争真相：人民解放军牺牲约8100人--天水在线


----------



## NiceGuy

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> They got treated nicely by PLA, we are civilized people who treat the pow well.


No use, U didnt declare the war to let our civilian can evacuate from war zone, u attack Vn surprisingly in animal way. U got No respect from the world in 1979 war.

........and China still lost, what ashamed !

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

NiceGuy said:


> No use, U didnt declare the war to let our civilian can evacuate from war zone, u attack Vn surprisingly in animal way. U got No respect from the world in 1979 war.
> 
> ........and China still lost, what ashamed !



Tell me, you wanna see the capitalism to rule the world or the communism to rule the world?


----------



## NiceGuy

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Tell me, you wanna see the capitalism to rule the world or the communism to rule the world?


What will be will be, I cant stop the evil just by my wish. But VNese will try to unify sub-Mekong region to get bigger and stronger to survive


----------



## Zero_wing

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Tell me, you wanna see the capitalism to rule the world or the communism to rule the world?



Really? the only problem here is your trying to be the next nazi germany or imperial japan that kind of thing died a few decades ago

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Eliter

Nansha Qundao ,Nansha Islands, Spratly Islands
West Reef or West London Reef
Jan 11 ,2014


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

NiceGuy said:


> What will be will be, I cant stop the evil just by my wish. But VNese will try to unify sub-Mekong region to get bigger and stronger to survive



Then don't pretend to be a global player, you are just a pawn.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## KAL-EL

I come here sometimes to try and educate myself on SCS matters and all I mainly see are the same threats and arguments going back and fourth  Despite all the chest thumping nationalism here though, China and Vietnam are ruled by rational people. I don't see your countries going to war anytime soon.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Wholegrain

NiceGuy said:


> They r women, Im so proud that VN women militia could kill so many 'well trained' PLA troops before they had no more bullet left and die in the surprise attack like that .



No, all the Kinh women's militia faced the PLA and ended up dead or captured, thats why the only "women militia" you had left to stage photos with was with Tai and Mien ethnic minorities like Nung, Tay, and Dao people. 

Those staged photos of "women militia" taking prisoners showed Tay and Nung women dressed very clearly in their ethnic costumes. And look at the gravestones and pictures of Vietnamese women militia captured by the PLA- Kinh people, judging from what they wear in the photos, and the location for their hometown on their gravestones.

The Trung Sisters were Tai people like the Zhuang (Tai people dominated the population of Nanyue) and Kinh people hijacked their story and made it their own. Zhuang and Nung are the same people. The Trung sisters were Zhuang, and so were many other women fighters throughout their history.

壮族的历史人物

In Vietnamese culture, women have the same inferior status as in East Asian socities. Vietnam is patriarchial and patrilinieal like China, Korea, Japan. 

One of your Emperors said this in a poem

The Flaming Womb: Repositioning Women in Early Modern Southeast Asia - Barbara Watson Andaya - Google Books



> “The superior ( male) is strong and enduring / The inferior (female) is obedient and without force.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

Wholegrain said:


> No, all the Kinh women's militia faced the PLA and ended up dead or captured, thats why the only "women militia" you had left to stage photos with was with Tai and Mien ethnic minorities like Nung, Tay, and Dao people.
> 
> Those staged photos of "women militia" taking prisoners showed Tay and Nung women dressed very clearly in their ethnic costumes. And look at the gravestones and pictures of Vietnamese women militia captured by the PLA- Kinh people, judging from what they wear in the photos, and the location for their hometown on their gravestones.
> 
> The Trung Sisters were Tai people like the Zhuang (Tai people dominated the population of Nanyue) and Kinh people hijacked their story and made it their own. Zhuang and Nung are the same people. The Trung sisters were Zhuang, and so were many other women fighters throughout their history.
> 
> 壮族的历史人物
> 
> In Vietnamese culture, women have the same inferior status as in East Asian socities. Vietnam is patriarchial and patrilinieal like China, Korea, Japan.
> 
> One of your Emperors said this in a poem
> 
> The Flaming Womb: Repositioning Women in Early Modern Southeast Asia - Barbara Watson Andaya - Google Books


why do you post the same shit over and over again?
unless you can quote creditable sources, I can say your head is full of shit from Champa and Tai.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## EastSea

Eliter said:


> Nansha Qundao ,Nansha Islands, Spratly Islands
> West Reef or West London Reef
> Jan 11 ,2014



wet dream of chinese sea pirates,


----------



## cirr

Chinese Law Enforcement Vessels inducted、under construction and approved（The table lists only vessels with a tonnage（shown in the 5th or 6th column） of 1000 or more）：





















All in all 142 large ships with a total tonnage of 400000。

More building programmes are planned。

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Hypersonicmissiles

Good luck to Vietnam and Philippines over the course of the 21st century.

They are gonna need it.

Messing with China is the biggest mistake they ever made.


----------



## Soryu

Hypersonicmissiles said:


> Good luck to Vietnam and Philippines over the course of the 21st century.
> 
> They are gonna need it.
> 
> Messing with China is the biggest mistake they ever made.


I don't know about Philippine but with our Viets, we punch on your face so many whenever you step on our lands, and said "we're so sorry" after that, that how we deal with you guys until now, LOL ....


----------



## Zero_wing

Something there for the nation win or lose we fight for it its our duty too no one wants a war but china is asking for it and please i think its china who should be careful you arrogantly made a lot of enemies even the largest can fall remember that

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Khan_patriot

the Islands albeit small hold strategic value, no wonder everyone wants to claim them

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NiceGuy

Khan_patriot said:


> the Islands albeit small hold strategic value, no wonder everyone wants to claim them


Year, SCS(east sea) just like a stranglehold around China-Korea-Japan's neck coz most of oil-raw material import from those countries must pass by SCS(east sea)

And VN is controlling that stranglehold since we fought hard to take it back from mighty American , thanks for Phillipine help, the stranglehold is much tighter now


----------



## Hypersonicmissiles

Soryu said:


> I don't know about Philippine but with our Viets, we punch on your face so many whenever you step on our lands, and said "we're so sorry" after that, that how we deal with you guys until now, LOL ....



1974, 1979 and 1988 Vietnam got royally whipped.


----------



## Khan_patriot

NiceGuy said:


> Year, SCS(east sea) just like a stranglehold around China-Korea-Japan's neck coz most of oil-raw material import from those countries must pass by SCS(east sea)
> 
> And VN is controlling that stranglehold since we fought hard to take it back from mighty American , thanks for Phillipine help, the stranglehold is much tighter now



No wonder you guys are fighting hard over it, all wars are ultimately about oil I see.....


----------



## NiceGuy

Khan_patriot said:


> No wonder you guys are fighting hard over it, all wars are ultimately about oil I see.....


U r ally of China, but I think u should make friend with other nations that even having conflict wt China too. We r small country, we want peace, we can not harm any one. We just try to protect ourselves against the bullier, thats all


----------



## Khan_patriot

NiceGuy said:


> U r ally of China, but I think u should make friend with other nations that even having conflict wt China too. We r small country, we want peace, we can not harm any one. We just try to protect ourselves against the bullier, thats all



No mate, my government is ally of China, I am no ones ally...., and all countries have a right to defend their interests so no objection there.....

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## KAL-EL

This might be an incredibly naive question... but is there anyway the Vietnam, China and The Philippines could sit down and come to some sort of fair arrangement regarding SCS waters/islands? Or, are the countries just to far apart for agreement?


----------



## NiceGuy

KAL-EL said:


> This might be an incredibly naive question... but is there anyway the Vietnam, China and The Philippines could sit down and come to some sort of fair arrangement regarding SCS waters/islands? Or, are the countries just to far apart for agreement?


I think we will not have any agreement unless China return all islands they robe from VN-Phil.

And war is Ok with VNese, we've had so many war already, one more war doesnt change anything in VN.


----------



## Rechoice

Hypersonicmissiles said:


> 1974, 1979 and 1988 Vietnam got royally whipped.



dirty chinese sea pirates.


----------



## Rechoice

lying and bully is nature of chinese thief.


----------



## Wholegrain

NiceGuy said:


> I think we will not have any agreement unless China return all islands they robe from VN-Phil.
> 
> And war is Ok with VNese, we've had so many war already, one more war doesnt change anything in VN.



The only thieves are Vietnam and the Philippines. Vietnam acknowledged that the Spratlys and Paracels were Chinese during the Vietnam war, and started their backstabing after America left.

Vietnam Joins the World - Google Books

Vietnam Joins the World - Google Books



> In fact during this period, when Hanoi was relying heavily on the Chinese for support, the Hanoi authorities seem to have recognized the Spratlys and the Paracels as Chinese territories. Three bits of evidence for this are often cited by China.33 The first is a statement by Vietnamese Deputy Foreign Minister Ung Van Khien to Chinese Deputy Foreign Minister Li Zhimin in which the former indicated that Vietnam had recognized the Paracels and the Spratlys as Chinese territory since the days of the Song dynasty. The second is Pham Van Dong's letter dated September 14, 1958. It supported China's statement, extending its territorial waters twelve nautical miles. The statement clearly mentioned the Paracels and Spratlys by name as belonging to China. Third, in May 1965, the (North) Vietnamese Foreign Ministry criticized the United States for defining "part of China's Paracels" as a "fighting operation area."34
> 
> When victory was finally attained over the South, however, Hanoi was anxious to pick up all the pieces and claims left by the fallen regime. It acknowledged later that it had indeed previously acquiesced in China's claims to the islands but argued that times since then had changed.
> 
> At that time, Vietnam had to struggle against American intervention and aggression. . . . During this period, China regarded American imperialism as its main enemy and firmly supported the anti-American war of the Vietnamese people and was the "Vietnamese people's great rear base." China was one of the biggest aid donors to Vietnam. In the anti-American struggle, China and Vietnam became real friends. Relations between the two were "as close as lips and teeth." . . . During this period of opposing a much stronger enemy, the more Vietnam could let China fight hand in hand with Vietnam, the more advantageous for Vietnam to prevent America from using these two archipelagoes, and avoid attacks from the South China Sea [the East Sea in Vietnamese]. We have to understand the above statements in this spirit.36
> 
> With this rationale, in 1975 Vietnam asserted its claims to both the Paracels and the Spratlys and physically took possession of the six Spratly islands that the former South Vietnamese regime had occupied. In later years other islands were added.



Britain first found Chinese fishermen from Hainan on the Spratly islands, then they launched the first modern legal claims to the islands. 

Security and International Politics in the South China Sea: Towards a co ... - Google Books

War Or Peace in the South China Sea? - Google Books

Dictionary of Contemporary Chinese Military History - Larry M. Wortzel, Robin D. S. Higham - Google Books

The Republic of China (Taiwan) garrisoned, claimed and occupied the Spratly islands before Vietnam was even independent from France in the 1930s. It was the first asian country to claim and garrison the islands and Chinese fishermen were there before Vietnam. Philippines did not claim the islands until the 1970s under Marcos.

Vietnam Joins the World - Google Books

Where in the World is the Philippines?: Debating Its National Territory - Rodolfo Severino - Google Books

The Law of the Sea and Northeast Asia: A Challenge for Cooperation - HÅi-gwÅn Pak - Google Books

Spratly Islands (reefs, South China Sea) -- Encyclopedia Britannica


----------



## Eliter

Xisha Islands or Paracel Islands
Yongxing Dao, Yung-hsing Tao, Woody Island
2014 Feb 07

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Genesis

*I won't discuss actual military hardware here, not that I don't think it's important, but modern warefare is a game of cash, whoever can pump the most into it wins. Of course there are other factors, but most of it revolve around the generation and availability of money. 

*my own piece and my two cent.







South China sea dispute will not bring any actual conflicts between China and ASEAN. The difference in strength is apparent, and with no way of waging guerrilla warfare on the seas, it's also not a matter of occupation. 

The "arms race" of Asia is not an actual thing, for as much as been talked about China's military spending, the total percentage in relation to GDP has actually dropped this year and has almost never exceeded such nations as US, UK, France, or even India and sometimes Italy. It's also getting close to Japan in terms of percentage, a nation that's constitutionally not allowed to make war.

The one factor that's delaying the inevitable is the United States of America, the most powerful force in Asia and the world, for now.

The tension stems not from the fact that China is "causing trouble," for China has been the hegemon in the area more or less for the last 2000 years and peace was the way of life for much of that period. Nor is it from the accusation of claiming seas and violating international laws. I will talk about this point later in the post.

The trouble is from the China US rivalry and the past 20 years of craziness, including the great leap forward the cultural revolution, and such, as well as the hundred years of humiliation that dropped Chinese prestige all the way to bottom of the barrel.

There is no ill feeling from me, a Chinese, who understands the reputation China has because of those things, it is not a thing of prestige to say one is working with China, and worse to stand below it. The US here offers an attractive alternative, the land of opportunity, the land of the free. The nation that has won the cold war and became the sole super power in the world and could determined the fate of any nation at the drop of a hat. 

This is like NBA, playing for Cleavland Cavs, and LA Lakers, or playing for Real Madrid or Atletico Madrid. 

But just as Japan changed its image of a low end manufacturing nation to that of a high tech one, so too will China, that is not a prediction, but a natural order of things. Much like no one would question the growth of a person. 

Now let's go back to the my claim, that the nine dash line isn't what's causing the tension. Chinese claim and Western claim is very different. Since ancient times China has only demanded tribute from neighboring nations, while the West colonizes. The fundamental understanding of "my" is different from China to US. 

Chinese nine dash line, when realize won't result in banning of foreign fishing, or mining of energy, it would actually be exactly how it is, but with China as the protector of the ocean instead of the US. 

You can doubt my claim if you wish, but it's what is apparent is that the ultimate goal for the China is the rejuvenation of the Chinese nation, not the monopoly of all Asian resources. Look at China in Africa, we give loans and we give infrastructure, regardless of what the West have painted China in Africa, there are roads, and rails that otherwise won't be there. The mining efficiency has dramatically increased in Chinese invest countries, and China is polled as an example to follow by many African nations. I can show source for this if anyone is interested. 

China wants a place in the world that would fit someone of her size and strength, she wants to be seen as the shinning light of the world, the goal is to be benevolent, not insane. If you want more proof, Ming dynasty, China sent Zheng He, and diplomat that created trade, the West sent Columbus, looking for new land. (yea I know he went searching for trade route, but you get my meaning)

Regarding resource, it's not as simple as owning the ocean and extract resource like a mad man. America didn't ship oil from Afgan straight to the US after it conquered it for much of the same reason. I won't go too deep in it, but world economy isn't playing house, especially in today's world. This talk of China wanting the resource is true, but not in the way most would have you believe. Nobody is trying to pee in the ocean.

So that brings us back to China US rivalry, the cause of the tension, and my assertion that South China sea conflict will end in a whimper and not a bang.

The US doesn't want to give up it's position as the leader of Asia and the world. If she does give up on the China seas, she would have effectively given up both. However, much like how the Soviets knew they couldn't keep up the cold war much longer back in the 80s. Americans today must know they cannot stay in Asia forever.

It has become increasingly evident that China will past the US within a decade's time as the number one in nominal GDP, and then, the gap would widen. The Chinese engineers and other graduates are out numbering the US almost 2 to 1 if not more and soon it will be much more. 

In the past this would have resulted in a war and the winner would advance. But with the invention of nuclear weapons, globalization, and the the way people look at war, government in general, it is very unlikely for the US and China to actually clash in the present. For unlike WW1 and WW2, no one in the states will be cheering for war on the streets like those wars past, and it's also one of the main reasons I don't think war will be likely. Times have changed. 

Finally, if my arguments prove to be right, that the US will have to pull out of Asia one way or another, China and ASEAN will no longer have any obstacles in obtaining a deal that would suit both. With it would being an end to this tension in Asia, and will truly begin the Asian century.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## EyanKhan

But the question is can China maintain this GDP growth till it passes the US and even if it does The US would still be in a better position due to the respective populations so the US presence in ASEAN is to stay for a very long time as i see it?

And another question is that of Japan which as we all know is not a weak nation what if it starts an arms race with China and relations go beyond repair point?


----------



## Genesis

EyanKhan said:


> But the question is can China maintain this GDP growth till it passes the US and even if it does The US would still be in a better position due to the respective populations so the US presence in ASEAN is to stay for a very long time as i see it?
> 
> And another question is that of Japan which as we all know is not a weak nation what if it starts an arms race with China and relations go beyond repair point?



It doesn't matter if China can or not, China growing 6-7% until we reach and slightly exceed US gdp, and then grow 4-5%, and then 3-4%, we will still be well on track to our economic goals. We will always grow, because we have a huge home market, our businessmen will have the unfair advantage of overwhelming home court support.

Most first venture for businesses are local, while it would eventually expend international if local is successful. Like a business in a small town is a lot harder to succeed compare to one from Beijing, it is the same with countries. Japan and even the US will be smaller markets relative to China, and our businesses will have massive exposure and before even hitting international.

I didn't explain that very well, but hopefully you get my drift. It's late here.

The US presence could stay, but it will no longer be dominate, I foresee the US withdrawing to battle China in a neutral battle ground, Africa, or South America, and middle east. Though middle east and Africa is more likely. Staying in Asia after the shift in power for America is pointless and Americans won't waste resources to do something pointless, especially if they have none to spare.


Japan isn't weak, if her neighbor is anyone but China, even America, she would have a chance, but it is China. At still 6000 per capita, a low end developing nation, we are double her GDP, imagine when we reach semi developed with in a decade.

Also, China is poor, but we have around the same number of people as rich or more so than Japan right now, it's just that the rest of the population is poor. So in essence we have created a Japan like state within China, it's just that as time goes on we will have more and more of these "states." 

Japan won't risk confrontation, especially one she cannot win. An arms race is something she won't even come close to matching, much less winning. We could go 10 million battle ready troops with the drop of a hat, that same number is 1/10th of Japanese population. 

Relationship will be good, for all it's cracked up to be, China Japan relationship at the worst of times wasn't as bad as Britain and France were, or Germany and Europe was. Remember just little over 10 years ago China and Japan was on very good terms.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## HariPrasad

US economy is double than Chinese economy. So unless Chinese GDP grows 2 time, there is not any narrowing of GAP. If Chinese GDP grows more than 2 times of that of US, the gap will narrow. If US grows at 3 %, China need to grow above 6 % to narrow the GAP.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

HariPrasad said:


> US economy is double than Chinese economy. So unless Chinese GDP grows 2 time, there is not any narrowing of GAP. If Chinese GDP grows more than 2 times of that of US, the gap will narrow. If US grows at 3 %, China need to grow above 6 % to narrow the GAP.



They were not double of our GDP since 2012.


----------



## HariPrasad

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> They were not double of our GDP since 2012.




8 TR Dollar Vs 16 Tr Dollar

List of countries by GDP (nominal) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

HariPrasad said:


> 8 TR Dollar Vs 16 Tr Dollar
> 
> List of countries by GDP (nominal) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



China's GDP was 9.3 trillion in 2013, and the US GDP in 2013 was 7 trillion more.


----------



## Genesis

HariPrasad said:


> US economy is double than Chinese economy. So unless Chinese GDP grows 2 time, there is not any narrowing of GAP. If Chinese GDP grows more than 2 times of that of US, the gap will narrow. If US grows at 3 %, China need to grow above 6 % to narrow the GAP.



That's not how GDP is calculated, lots of factors go into it. The growth is a percentage of that, but hardly the whole story. But that's not the point of this thread.


----------



## HariPrasad

Genesis said:


> That's not how GDP is calculated, lots of factors go into it. The growth is a percentage of that, but hardly the whole story. But that's not the point of this thread.




You simply failed to understand my post and simple maths.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

HariPrasad said:


> You simply failed to understand my post and simple maths.



Well, China's GDP will inevitably surpass USA soon or later, it doesn't matter how US keeps changing the method of its GDP calculation, they will have to face this reality one day.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Genesis

HariPrasad said:


> You simply failed to understand my post and simple maths.



go calculate India GDP from one year to the next and see if the difference is the growth. There's tons of factors that goes into it.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Rechoice

Wholegrain said:


> The only thieves are Vietnam and the Philippines. Vietnam acknowledged that the Spratlys and Paracels were Chinese during the Vietnam war, and started their backstabing after America left.
> 
> Vietnam Joins the World - Google Books
> 
> Vietnam Joins the World - Google Books
> 
> 
> 
> Britain first found Chinese fishermen from Hainan on the Spratly islands, then they launched the first modern legal claims to the islands.
> 
> Security and International Politics in the South China Sea: Towards a co ... - Google Books
> 
> War Or Peace in the South China Sea? - Google Books
> 
> Dictionary of Contemporary Chinese Military History - Larry M. Wortzel, Robin D. S. Higham - Google Books
> 
> The Republic of China (Taiwan) garrisoned, claimed and occupied the Spratly islands before Vietnam was even independent from France in the 1930s. It was the first asian country to claim and garrison the islands and Chinese fishermen were there before Vietnam. Philippines did not claim the islands until the 1970s under Marcos.
> 
> Vietnam Joins the World - Google Books
> 
> Where in the World is the Philippines?: Debating Its National Territory - Rodolfo Severino - Google Books
> 
> The Law of the Sea and Northeast Asia: A Challenge for Cooperation - HÅi-gwÅn Pak - Google Books
> 
> Spratly Islands (reefs, South China Sea) -- Encyclopedia Britannica



.
The *Geneva Conference* (April 26 – July 20, 1954) was signed by North Vietnam and Chima, Islands belong to South Vietnam, China robbed our Islands 1974 when USA left, kid.







Ancient maps of Quang Ngai province, drawn by Do Ba in mid-17th century. Captions on the map note Vietnamese Nguyen Lords' exploration activities on Hoang Sa.


----------



## xunzi

EyanKhan said:


> But the question is can China maintain this GDP growth till it passes the US and even if it does The US would still be in a better position due to the respective populations so the US presence in ASEAN is to stay for a very long time as i see it?
> 
> And another question is that of Japan which as we all know is not a weak nation what if it starts an arms race with China and relations go beyond repair point?


The question is not if we can surpass the US in GDP but the question is when. There is also the question of when we achieve military parity with the US, what would happen to the rest of Asia and the world? Can South China Sea house two super military giants?

We fully welcome an arm race with Japan. We don't believe Japan can beat us in an arm race without US's assistance.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NiceGuy

xunzi said:


> The question is not if we can surpass the US in GDP but the question is when. There is also the question of when we achieve military parity with the US, what would happen to the rest of Asia and the world? Can South China Sea house two super military giants?
> 
> .


Nothing happen, China army is corrupted and stupid in fighting , USA is an old loser . Vn-Russia will keep control SCS(east sea) as usual


----------



## Viet

Genesis said:


> *I won't discuss actual military hardware here, not that I don't think it's important, but modern warefare is a game of cash, whoever can pump the most into it wins. Of course there are other factors, but most of it revolve around the generation and availability of money.
> 
> *my own piece and my two cent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> South China sea dispute will not bring any actual conflicts between China and ASEAN. The difference in strength is apparent, and with no way of waging guerrilla warfare on the seas, it's also not a matter of occupation.
> 
> The "arms race" of Asia is not an actual thing, for as much as been talked about China's military spending, the total percentage in relation to GDP has actually dropped this year and has almost never exceeded such nations as US, UK, France, or even India and sometimes Italy. It's also getting close to Japan in terms of percentage, a nation that's constitutionally not allowed to make war.
> 
> The one factor that's delaying the inevitable is the United States of America, the most powerful force in Asia and the world, for now.
> 
> The tension stems not from the fact that China is "causing trouble," for China has been the hegemon in the area more or less for the last 2000 years and peace was the way of life for much of that period. Nor is it from the accusation of claiming seas and violating international laws. I will talk about this point later in the post.
> 
> The trouble is from the China US rivalry and the past 20 years of craziness, including the great leap forward the cultural revolution, and such, as well as the hundred years of humiliation that dropped Chinese prestige all the way to bottom of the barrel.
> 
> There is no ill feeling from me, a Chinese, who understands the reputation China has because of those things, it is not a thing of prestige to say one is working with China, and worse to stand below it. The US here offers an attractive alternative, the land of opportunity, the land of the free. The nation that has won the cold war and became the sole super power in the world and could determined the fate of any nation at the drop of a hat.
> 
> This is like NBA, playing for Cleavland Cavs, and LA Lakers, or playing for Real Madrid or Atletico Madrid.
> 
> But just as Japan changed its image of a low end manufacturing nation to that of a high tech one, so too will China, that is not a prediction, but a natural order of things. Much like no one would question the growth of a person.
> 
> Now let's go back to the my claim, that the nine dash line isn't what's causing the tension. Chinese claim and Western claim is very different. Since ancient times China has only demanded tribute from neighboring nations, while the West colonizes. The fundamental understanding of "my" is different from China to US.
> 
> Chinese nine dash line, when realize won't result in banning of foreign fishing, or mining of energy, it would actually be exactly how it is, but with China as the protector of the ocean instead of the US.
> 
> You can doubt my claim if you wish, but it's what is apparent is that the ultimate goal for the China is the rejuvenation of the Chinese nation, not the monopoly of all Asian resources. Look at China in Africa, we give loans and we give infrastructure, regardless of what the West have painted China in Africa, there are roads, and rails that otherwise won't be there. The mining efficiency has dramatically increased in Chinese invest countries, and China is polled as an example to follow by many African nations. I can show source for this if anyone is interested.
> 
> China wants a place in the world that would fit someone of her size and strength, she wants to be seen as the shinning light of the world, the goal is to be benevolent, not insane. If you want more proof, Ming dynasty, China sent Zheng He, and diplomat that created trade, the West sent Columbus, looking for new land. (yea I know he went searching for trade route, but you get my meaning)
> 
> Regarding resource, it's not as simple as owning the ocean and extract resource like a mad man. America didn't ship oil from Afgan straight to the US after it conquered it for much of the same reason. I won't go too deep in it, but world economy isn't playing house, especially in today's world. This talk of China wanting the resource is true, but not in the way most would have you believe. Nobody is trying to pee in the ocean.
> 
> So that brings us back to China US rivalry, the cause of the tension, and my assertion that South China sea conflict will end in a whimper and not a bang.
> 
> The US doesn't want to give up it's position as the leader of Asia and the world. If she does give up on the China seas, she would have effectively given up both. However, much like how the Soviets knew they couldn't keep up the cold war much longer back in the 80s. Americans today must know they cannot stay in Asia forever.
> 
> It has become increasingly evident that China will past the US within a decade's time as the number one in nominal GDP, and then, the gap would widen. The Chinese engineers and other graduates are out numbering the US almost 2 to 1 if not more and soon it will be much more.
> 
> In the past this would have resulted in a war and the winner would advance. But with the invention of nuclear weapons, globalization, and the the way people look at war, government in general, it is very unlikely for the US and China to actually clash in the present. For unlike WW1 and WW2, no one in the states will be cheering for war on the streets like those wars past, and it's also one of the main reasons I don't think war will be likely. Times have changed.
> 
> Finally, if my arguments prove to be right, that the US will have to pull out of Asia one way or another, China and ASEAN will no longer have any obstacles in obtaining a deal that would suit both. With it would being an end to this tension in Asia, and will truly begin the Asian century.


WOW! nice, how long did you take to write this essay?

I don´t want to go too much into details, just take one of your statement as below:

*"Chinese nine dash line, when realize won't result in banning of foreign fishing, or mining of energy, it would actually be exactly how it is, but with China as the protector of the ocean instead of the US".*

Your argument is full of flaw and does not reflect the reality what you do on the ground!
Why? let take the position of Vietnam. just some examples.

since beginning of this year, you issue onesided a fishing ban over the SE Sea. China demands all Vietnamese fishermen to seek a permission at Chinese authority if they go fishing. You demand Vietnam to surrender to China. And you try to explain me that you just want to protect us before America?

last year, you fired at our fishermen when they came close to Paracles, damaging their vessel and risked their lives. protect us before America? Thousands of Chinese violated our waters, and our reaction was just chased them away. We never fire at your fishermen.

you staged a military excercise to celebrate your victory at Paracles 40 years ago, just to provoke Vietnam. you want to protect us before America?

one or two years you intruded our EEZ waters, cut one of exploration vessels, risked a war with Vietnam. you want just to protect us before America?

you invaded Paracels and Spratlys and killed our people. you want to protect us before America?

you want to explore oil and gas in our EEZ waters. you invite foreign companies to violate our country right. you want just to protect us before America?

I believe you live in a different world. I don´t know where it is, but it is not here.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

Great thread Genesis.


----------



## Viet

Chinese delusion, as usual. They live in a parallel universe.
No, we don´t need your protection. Pls stay away off our waters. Fck off!


----------



## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Viet said:


> Chinese delusion, as usual. They live in a parallel universe.
> No, we don´t need your protection. Pls stay away off our waters. Fck off!


 
you mean to stay away from your water such Song Hong?..that's the last thing you want to wish


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

Viet said:


> Chinese delusion, as usual. They live in a parallel universe.
> No, we don´t need your protection. Pls stay away off our waters. Fck off!



No.


----------



## Edison Chen

HariPrasad said:


> US economy is double than Chinese economy. So unless Chinese GDP grows 2 time, there is not any narrowing of GAP. If Chinese GDP grows more than 2 times of that of US, the gap will narrow. If US grows at 3 %, China need to grow above 6 % to narrow the GAP.



You should take CNY inflation factor into calculation.



Viet said:


> Chinese delusion, as usual. They live in a parallel universe.
> No, we don´t need your protection. Pls stay away off our waters. Fck off!



Join China and there will never be fight again.


----------



## Genesis

Viet said:


> WOW! nice, how long did you take to write this essay?
> 
> I don´t want to go too much into details, just take one of your statement as below:
> 
> *"Chinese nine dash line, when realize won't result in banning of foreign fishing, or mining of energy, it would actually be exactly how it is, but with China as the protector of the ocean instead of the US".*
> 
> Your argument is full of flaw and does not reflect the reality what you do on the ground!
> Why? let take the position of Vietnam. just some examples.
> 
> since beginning of this year, you issue onesided a fishing ban over the SE Sea. China demands all Vietnamese fishermen to seek a permission at Chinese authority if they go fishing. You demand Vietnam to surrender to China. And you try to explain me that you just want to protect us before America?
> 
> last year, you fired at our fishermen when they came close to Paracles, damaging their vessel and risked their lives. protect us before America? Thousands of Chinese violated our waters, and our reaction was just chased them away. We never fire at your fishermen.
> 
> you staged a military excercise to celebrate your victory at Paracles 40 years ago, just to provoke Vietnam. you want to protect us before America?
> 
> one or two years you intruded our EEZ waters, cut one of exploration vessels, risked a war with Vietnam. you want just to protect us before America?
> 
> you invaded Paracels and Spratlys and killed our people. you want to protect us before America?
> 
> you want to explore oil and gas in our EEZ waters. you invite foreign companies to violate our country right. you want just to protect us before America?
> 
> I believe you live in a different world. I don´t know where it is, but it is not here.



What you said could be true, but in this case it is not. There's a couple of things you are not seeing. What you assuming is what is happening today is what will happen tomorrow.

Being Asian, especially east Asian I thought you know enough of our culture to understand, but I could explain it to you.

China and Vietnam is currently in a deadlock over the seas, how we handle this issue is obviously going to be different than when the situation is resolved. Not even the crazy non flexible western mentality would deal with one situation the same in two different environments.

Let's look at the facts. During the Chinese civil war, Mao created a list of war criminals on the nationalists side. However, all who turned and joined the revolution on the side of the people were not only allowed to keep their positions but also promoted depending on merit. The Chinese vice premiership was even given to some one who slaughtered Communists during the purge by the nationalists early on, due to his contribution the country.

Despite all the "bad blood," China is still continue trading with Japan, Vietnam, Philippines, sure there is some boycott here and there, that happens on all sides, but the official government stance has never been one of revenge.

Lastly, the ultimate goal for China isn't Asia, it is a leader position in the WORLD, having petty conflicts and not be generous is not the Chinese ruling class' mentality since Ancient times, there has always been the carrot and the stick.

During Zheng He's voyage in Ming dynasty, he took a few kings prisoner for slaughtering his men and trying to rob him, and for fighting with him. On his return, the YongLe emperor granted them pardon and officially gave them recognition as the divine rulers of respected countries and signed trade agreements with them, as well as bestowed gifts on them.

That's the Chinese mentality, I'm not telling Philippines and Vietnam to surrender, it won't come to that, as soon as the US is gone, a mutual defence agreement and exploration agreement is more likely, China could also pump major investments into respective countries. 

Working with China historically has also been one of prestige and benefit, kings and princes would kill for the privilege of presenting themselves in front of the emperor. With our return to form, our usual policy of non-interference in internal politics, no strings attached deals are far more attractive than Western counter parts, who got it into their heads that they are superior and knows best. We are not superior, but we are more numerous.


----------



## Zero_wing

Genesis said:


> What you said could be true, but in this case it is not. There's a couple of things you are not seeing. What you assuming is what is happening today is what will happen tomorrow.
> 
> Being Asian, especially east Asian I thought you know enough of our culture to understand, but I could explain it to you.
> 
> China and Vietnam is currently in a deadlock over the seas, how we handle this issue is obviously going to be different than when the situation is resolved. Not even the crazy non flexible western mentality would deal with one situation the same in two different environments.
> 
> Let's look at the facts. During the Chinese civil war, Mao created a list of war criminals on the nationalists side. However, all who turned and joined the revolution on the side of the people were not only allowed to keep their positions but also promoted depending on merit. The Chinese vice premiership was even given to some one who slaughtered Communists during the purge by the nationalists early on, due to his contribution the country.
> 
> Despite all the "bad blood," China is still continue trading with Japan, Vietnam, Philippines, sure there is some boycott here and there, that happens on all sides, but the official government stance has never been one of revenge.
> 
> Lastly, the ultimate goal for China isn't Asia, it is a leader position in the WORLD, having petty conflicts and not be generous is not the Chinese ruling class' mentality since Ancient times, there has always been the carrot and the stick.
> 
> During Zheng He's voyage in Ming dynasty, he took a few kings prisoner for slaughtering his men and trying to rob him, and for fighting with him. On his return, the YongLe emperor granted them pardon and officially gave them recognition as the divine rulers of respected countries and signed trade agreements with them, as well as bestowed gifts on them.
> 
> That's the Chinese mentality, I'm not telling Philippines and Vietnam to surrender, it won't come to that, as soon as the US is gone, a mutual defence agreement and exploration agreement is more likely, China could also pump major investments into respective countries.
> 
> Working with China historically has also been one of prestige and benefit, kings and princes would kill for the privilege of presenting themselves in front of the emperor. With our return to form, our usual policy of non-interference in internal politics, no strings attached deals are far more attractive than Western counter parts, who got it into their heads that they are superior and knows best. We are not superior, but we are more numerous.



Never mind in the expense of local industries, resources and major lose to the economy and imports of criminal activity i take my chances yes i have seen what china trades does to a country and that notion of western countries thinking that way was so cold war so try other party trick


----------



## NiceGuy

> *Ngư dân trúng đậm 'lộc biển' đầu năm
> Thứ tư, 5/2/2014 14:36 GMT+7
> *
> *Từng đoàn tàu của ngư dân miền Trung nối đuôi nhau cập cảng với cá ngừ, cá nục hoa, cá cơm... đầy khoang, thu về cả trăm triệu đồng. *
> *.................*
> *Nhiều ngư dân Quảng Ngãi đánh bắt thủy sản ở Hoàng Sa, Trường Sa cũng đã trở về với cá, mực đầy khoang. Trung bình mỗi tàu đánh bắt được 7-10 tấn thủy sản, thu lãi hơn 100 triệu đồng.'*
> 
> *Ngư dân trúng đậm 'lộc biển' đầu năm - VnExpress*










Translate

Fishermen hit 'jacpot' in SCS(East sea) in new year (2014)

Ships r docked with fulled of tuna, anchovies etc about a hundred million VND.

Many fishermen in Quang Ngai fishing in the* Hoang Sa (Paracel) and Truong Sa (Spratly )*has returned with fish, squid full in the holds. Average catch per boat 7-10 tons of seafood, earning more than 100 million VND profit.
............................................................

No VN fishermen care abt China fishing ban in SCS(east sea), and China also dare not to do anything to stop our men . We should armed our fishermen with Real Gun, so they can head shoot those pirates


----------



## NiceGuy

Genesis said:


> Working with China historically has also been one of prestige and benefit, kings and princes would kill for the privilege of presenting themselves in front of the emperor. With our return to form, our usual policy of non-interference in internal politics, no strings attached deals are far more attractive than Western counter parts, who got it into their heads that they are superior and knows best. We are not superior, but we are more numerous.


Bcz China supported Pol Pot to massacre VN , China also attacked VN surprisingly in 1979, killed a lot of VN kids, women, and never say sorry, so we prefer to shake hands with Japan -Russia to contain China and let China die in corruption - pollution. We dont see any friendly attitude from u , so dont talk nonsense.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Wholegrain

NiceGuy said:


> Bcz China supported Pol Pot to massacre VN , China also attacked VN surprisingly in 1979, killed a lot of VN kids, women, and never say sorry, so we prefer to shake hands with Japan -Russia to contain China and let China die in corruption - pollution. We dont see any friendly attitude from u , so dont talk nonsense.



MONRE: environment sacrificed for economic development - News VietNamNet



> Dr. Hoang Duong Tung, Deputy Director General of the Environment Directorate under the Ministry of Natural Resources and the Environment (MONRE), in an interview given to the local press, expressed his worry that local authorities have been sacrificing the environment for economic development.
> 
> He noted that the great efforts by the ministry and the community to protect the environment would be in vain if local authorities determine the local economic development as the top priority.
> 
> Vietnam has to pay a heavy price for the economic growth. A lot of areas have got seriously polluted. The forests have been destroyed. The biodiversity has been degrading. The river water has got polluted. The air in urban areas has got problematic. Meanwhile, big problems still exist in the solid waste treatment.



Vietnam latest news - Thanh Nien Daily | 
In Vietnam, unsustainable ‘modernization’ too much for sanitation services



> Huynh Thanh Long said he and his neighbors close all their doors and windows whenever they are at home but that doesn’t keep the awful stink from the Ba Bo Canal out of the house.
> 
> “Pollution often forms a thick layer of foam on the surface of the flowing water,” said the resident of Ho Chi Minh City’s Thu Duc District.
> 
> According to the city’s anti-inundation center, pollution in the canal is a combination of wastewater from residential areas and industrial zones upstream.
> 
> Pollution in big cities is common in Vietnam, threatening public health and sustainable growth, experts say.
> 
> Vietweek recently reported serious pollution in Hanoi’s rivers, the result of untreated wastewater being discharged from series of new urban areas built without wastewater treatment facilities.



Vietnam latest news - Thanh Nien Daily |  Real estate investors destroying Vietnam capital’s rivers



> Nguyen Thi Loi, a resident of Hanoi’s Tu Liem District, said her local Nhue River is so polluted that residents have not been able use it to water their vegetable gardens for years. They say the stagnant black liquid kills plants.
> 
> “Fish and shrimp in the river used to be the main food for families living alongside the river, but they [fish and shrimp] no longer survive,” said Loi.
> 
> “Contact with the water causes itchy rashes and the [river's] stink makes you dizzy.”
> 
> The Nhue, a small river 76 kilometers long, is black for the 20 kilometers it flows through Hanoi. In some places it is covered in foam and too thick to even flow.
> 
> Many other rivers in the capital are also seriously polluted like the Nhue, a result of rapid urbanization without strict planning and the lax enforcement of wastewater treatment regulations in new residential areas.
> 
> Up the creek without a paddle
> 
> At the Nhue River, the pollution gets worse the further downstream you go.
> 
> People in Ha Dong District said heavy downpours reduce the stink, but only temporarily.
> 
> Things are horrific during the dry season at the turn of the year, they said.



Vietnam latest news - Thanh Nien Daily | 
The Besins Healthcare in Vietnam



> A large number of lifestyle issues and current environmental changes such as unhealthy diet; increasing obesity rates; smoking; air pollution from transport, industrial gas, water pollution; foods containing toxins, or stress in modern life, etc. are big factors affecting fertility of couples, leading to serious consequences as miscarriage, preterm birth, or even infertility .
> 
> According to the latest epidemiological studies carried out by the Ministry of Health, 7.7% of couples are infertile in Vietnam. Thus there are over 1 million of infertile couples who should be examined and treated. Preterm birth and miscarriage are also two of the leading causes of perinatal mortality in children worldwide and in Vietnam. (Source: Nearly 8% of couples are infertile in Vietnam. Dan Tri Newspaper, 5 April, 2013)



Social Headlines January 16 - News VietNamNet



> Illegal miners from other provinces flocked to the jungles to dig for gold, creating headaches for local authorities concerning security and environment pollution, according to Hoa.


----------



## cirr

HariPrasad said:


> US economy is double than Chinese economy. So unless Chinese GDP grows 2 time, there is not any narrowing of GAP. If Chinese GDP grows more than 2 times of that of US, the gap will narrow. If US grows at 3 %, China need to grow above 6 % to narrow the GAP.



Rather than worrying about the pace of growth for China，you should be more concerned about the fact that，5 years after the financial crisis in 2008，India's GDP，at a puny 1.7 trillion USD for FY 2013-2014，is back where it started。


----------



## HariPrasad

cirr said:


> Rather than worrying about the pace of growth for China，you should be more concerned about the fact that，5 years after the financial crisis in 2008，India's GDP，at a puny 1.7 trillion USD for FY 2013-2014，is back where it started。




Do not expose your brilliance once again on forum. The thread is about china. Some Chinese members were talking about surpassing US economy. I simply show them a mathematical calculation saying that china should progress at double the rate of US to narrow the Gap. If you can not accept such a simple plain fact, why are you here on the forum?


----------



## HariPrasad

Edison Chen said:


> You should take CNY inflation factor into calculation.




You take and put up your calculation.



Genesis said:


> go calculate India GDP from one year to the next and see if the difference is the growth. There's tons of factors that goes into it.




Rather than talkig like a big Economist, put some thoese tons of Factor for the knowledge of forum member.


----------



## Krueger

Friday February 14,2014

*US Admiral stresses importance of mutual defence treaty with the Philippines in powerful message of support for Manila over any future conflict over South China Sea*




US Chief of Naval Operations Admiral Jonathan Greenert. Photo: AFP

*The United States will “help” the Philippines in the event that China occupies disputed islands in the South China Sea, the US Chief of Naval Operations said on Thursday.*

Admiral Jonathan Greenert also stressed that the US would honour its mutual defence treaty with the Philippines amid a seething territorial conflict with China over the resource-rich waters.

*“Of course we would help you. I don’t know what that help would be, specifically. I mean we have an obligation because we have a treaty,” he told students at a state defence college during a visit to Manila.*

*His remarks – one of the strongest US declarations of support for the Philippines – come as concerns rise that China will attempt to forcefully assert its claim to almost all of the South China Sea.

“We have an obligation because we have a treaty.” *ADMIRAL JONATHAN GREENERT

China’s claim conflicts with that of the Philippines, which has a 1951 treaty with the United States that officials say bind the two partners to defend each other in case of external attack.

The United States has not taken a stand on the conflicting territorial claims over the South China Sea, which also involve Brunei, Malaysia, Taiwan and Vietnam.

*But Admiral Greenert said that he wanted to send a “clear signal ... that aggressive behaviour outside of international norms is contrary to good order.”

“You may have seen some statements coming from our policy makers exactly in that direction. You will see more of that from us,” he added.*

He also said that the US Navy would increase its presence in the Western Pacific region from the present level of about 50 ships to 60 ships by 2020.






*In December, during a visit to the Philippines, US Secretary of State John Kerry warned China against any move to declare an air defence zone in the South China Sea, a declaration that was seen as an affirmation of the defence ties between Manila and Washington.*

Greenert also praised the Philippines’ move to ask a UN tribunal to strike down China’s claims to most of the South China Sea, saying it was “a terrific idea”.

*He urged the Philippines “to stay the course and bring this to fruition,” even though China has refused to participate in the process.*

US would ‘help’ Philippines in South China Sea: Navy chief | South China Morning Post


----------



## Gautam

Its time for China (may be with the help of Pakistan) to attack the US to show who is the boss


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Gautam said:


> Its time for China (may be with the help of Pakistan) to attack the US to show who is the boss



Do you think that China does really care about the lip service?


----------



## Gautam

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Do you think that China does really care about the lip service?


I dont know. But you cant ignore it either. What do you think should be your next step?


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Gautam said:


> I dont know. But you cant ignore it either. What do you think should be your next step?



China is not the provocateur, but if Pinoy wants to act like the troublemaker, then China will put it back to its rightful place.

What USA gonna do? Start a war with China for that worthless banana republic?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## bolo

What was the admiral supposed to say to these pinoy students? "No, we're not going to help you because we are not risking a full scale war with China for cheap whores and bananas. You guys are not worth the drive to Acton." That is what he wanted to say.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Gautam

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> China is not the provocateur, but if Pinoy wants to act like the troublemaker, then China will put it back to its rightful place.
> 
> What USA gonna do? Start a war with China for that worthless banana republic?


They have a deal to defend each other in case of an attack.

I am not saying that China will attack Philippines, but if they (Philippines) enter that "zone" which you call it Chinese territory, is where you would have to act. That would, unfortunately, be considered as provocation.

This is going to be interesting.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Gautam said:


> They have a deal to defend each other in case of an attack.
> 
> I am not saying that China will attack Philippines, but if they (Philippines) enter that "zone" which you call it Chinese territory, is where you would have to act. That would, unfortunately, be considered as provocation.
> 
> This is going to be interesting.



Those defense treaty on paper means nothing when USA thinks this nation is not worthy and totally expendable.

You have to know even those American politicians and military officials don't even have a common agreement when it comes to China.

U.S. General Tells Japan, Philippines to Cool China Rhetoric - Bloomberg


----------



## BoQ77

The cooperation between the navy/coastguard of Vietnam - Indonesia - Malaysia - Phillipines now grow rapidly in ASEAN.


----------



## Oldman1

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> China is not the provocateur, but if Pinoy wants to act like the troublemaker, then China will put it back to its rightful place.
> 
> What USA gonna do? Start a war with China for that worthless banana republic?



Well since you claim all those islands already occupied by other countries and assumed the U.S. won't do anything, then go right ahead and take them and see what happens.


----------



## Raphael

> *Of course we would help you. I don’t know what that help would be, specifically. *



So it could be anything. It could be frequenting pinay whores more often so that the pinoy. govt gets more tax revenue to make arms purchases. What an ambivalent, non-committal statement.


----------



## GR!FF!N

Raphael said:


> So it could be anything. It could be frequenting pinay whores more often so that the pinoy. govt gets more tax revenue to make arms purchases. What an ambivalent, non-committal statement.



or it might be that the help can be anything from Financial Aid to purchase Arms or Military aid in the form of various military hardware..you're in a defence forum,not in a whorehouse..so,I think its better if you align your thoughts accordingly.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Rahul9090

The Philippines' military chief on Monday accused China's coast guard of firing water cannon at Filipino fishermen for the first time to drive them away from a disputed sea shoal.

General Emmanuel Bautista said Chinese vessels fired cannon on January 27 near Scarborough Shoal – the subject of a bitter territorial row in the strategically important South China Sea. "The Chinese coast guard tried to drive away Filipino fishing vessels to the extent of using water cannon," Bautista told a forum of the Foreign Correspondents Association of the Philippines.

He did not say if anyone was hurt and added that China continues to maintain an armed coast guard and other vessels at the shoal.

Chinese embassy spokesmen could not be contacted for comment.

Scarborough Shoal lies 220 kilometres (135 miles) off the main Philippine island of Luzon. It is about 650 kilometres from Hainan island, the nearest major Chinese land mass. In April 2012, the Philippines and China had a tense standoff which ended with the former retreating from the shoal – a rich fishing area.

China has occupied the shoal as part of its claim to most of the South China Sea including waters near the coasts of its neighbours. The Philippines, along with Brunei, Malaysia, Taiwan and Vietnam also have competing claims to parts of the sea, and the rivalries have been a source of tension for decades.

The South China Sea is one of the world's most important waterways as it is home to vital shipping lanes and is believed to sit atop lucrative deposits of natural resources.

Last year, Manila asked a United Nations arbitration tribunal to rule on the validity of China's claim to most of the sea, but Beijing has refused to be part of the process.

"We continue to give primacy to its (the dispute's) peaceful resolution principally through international arbitration," Bautista said. "All our actions are in support to that. We remain hopeful that the issue can be resolved peacefully and result in peace and stability in the region." He added too that "our resolve to perform our mandate as protectors of the people and the state and of our national territory" had not been weakened. "We will continue to perform that mandate with whatever we've got," he said, adding that the country was in the first phase of modernising its poorly-equipped armed forces.


----------



## Kolaps

It supposed to be Taiwan's Coast Guard who did it.

Pussy Ma Ying-jeou!

We will fight against the mainland, bla bla bla... Do your homework first to protect our territory against smaller country!


----------



## cirr

Chinese bullet train（with diesel MTUs）for export to Iraq：


----------



## Zero_wing

Wow the imperialist strikes again


----------



## bolo

Water cannon...bah....


----------



## Krueger

02/24/2014






*MANILA, Philippines – "There is no such thing as 9-dash line," United States ambassador to the Philippines Philip Goldberg told reporters on Monday, February 24, reiterating his country's rejection of China's basis for claiming portions of the South China Sea that are closer to the Philippines.*

*"We do not believe that the 9-dash line claim passes the legal test for determining or resolving disputes over South China Sea matters," *Goldberg said during the annual prospects forum of the Foreign Correspondents Association of the Philippines in Makati City.

The ambassador was reiterating the statement of US Assistant Secretary of State for East Asian and Pacific Affairs Daniel Russel before the US Congress earlier in February.

Russel's statement is considered the first time that the US publicly rejected China's 9-dash line claim in the South China Sea. More US policymakers and military officers have since issued strong statements against China's aggressiveness. (WATCH: Expect stronger US message VS China's aggression)

*The US supports the move of the Philippines to bring the maritime disputes to the United Nations body, the International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea (ITLOS).*

The US maintains it is not taking sides on the maritime disputes but it has taken a position against any unilateral move to change the status quo. The US also opposes the establishment of the Air Defense Identification Zone (ADIZ) over the East China Sea and similar attempts to do the same over the West Philippines Sea.

*Treaty allies, the US and the Philippines are finalizing a military-to-military agreement that will increase the presence of American troops in the Philippines. The Philippines sought the help of the US against the backdrop of escalating sea tensions.*

"We want to conclude the agreement as soon as we can. There are still some details to work out. We have made progress in the agreement. We want to conclude it as quickly as possible but I won't set the date," said Goldberg.

Goldberg said the US military commits to continue helping the Philippines in terms of disaster relief, maritime security, peacekeeping, defense reform, and human rights.

*"The Philippines has embarked on a program to build a minimum credible defense as is the right of sovereign nations. The US supports that effort. Nations need to be able to protect their borders and defend their people not just from traditional aggression but from transnational crime, smuggling, and international terrorism," *Goldberg said.

*The request of the Philippines coincides with the US strategy to rebalance to the Asia Pacific. Goldberg said the US wants to deepen alliance with the Philippines for the following interests: commercial, people to people, military and strategic ties.*

"Note the order in which I put those priorities. If you think about the genesis of the rebalance, it starts on the recognition of the rise of Asia – the rise of China and Southeast Asia in terms of economic growth, population growth, and trade," he explained

'No such thing as 9-dash line' – US envoy


----------



## senheiser

gj china, dont let these American serfs into your terriotory

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Raphael

Should have copied the Pinoy navy and sprayed bullets instead, like they did to the Taiwanese fishermen.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## tranquilium

Next time, use boiling water instead.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## bolo

US coast guard would not have used water gun, their method would be better than China's.


----------



## TheTruth

Zero_wing said:


> Wow the imperialist strikes again



Hilarious coming from the vicious scum who love Christian terrorists murdering Muslims in Mindanao. The Visayans don't even want to be part of your country. If it weren't for China asserting her claims you and Vietnam would be in a war trying to steal islands from each other, as you laughably claim almost the entire sea as your personal piracy and killing grounds.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Martian2

My comment on Bloomberg News.

Philippines Summons China Envoy Over Water Cannon Use - Bloomberg

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## BoQ77

Sorry the nine-dashed-line is just a funny work of a boy into the world map !!!
No need to travel in real, just bring the world map front and use a pencil ...


----------



## TheTruth

The nine dash line is not as funny as Vietnam claiming almost as much despite being a minor power. At least China had the decency to make it a dashed line. I have to hand it to you though, Vietnamese unlike the Philippines doesn't think UNCLOS gives it the right to machine gun any fishing boat that enters its EEZ.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zero_wing

TheTruth said:


> Learn how to read please, my bs spewing 8 year old friend. I said they were in Mindanao, not all of Mindanao. Go kill yourself you subhum4n ret4rd.
> 
> Bangsamoro will be free from ugly little shite4ters like you.



Wow typical imperialist free your slaves first then come to me and talk about freedom arrogant D bag because the only bad guys here are your kind i mean china is already big and your claim even more lands and waters take your advice and shove it on your @$$



TheTruth said:


> The nine dash line is not as funny as Vietnam claiming almost as much despite being a minor power. At least China had the decency to make it a dashed line. I have to hand it to you though, Vietnamese unlike the Philippines doesn't think UNCLOS gives it the right to machine gun any fishing boat that enters its EEZ.



Really then stop taking lands and islands and resources that clearly does not blelong to you

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TheTruth

Those islands have always belonged to China. If you ask nicely maybe they'll give you some of the resources. And don't talk about imperialism until your made-up country is broken down into at least three.


----------



## EastSea

TheTruth said:


> Those islands have always belonged to China. If you ask nicely maybe they'll give you some of the resources. And don't talk about imperialism until your made-up country is broken down into at least three.



Chinese bandits have a big mouths.



Martian2 said:


> My comment on Bloomberg News.
> 
> Philippines Summons China Envoy Over Water Cannon Use - Bloomberg



Marco Polo was the first European to discovered China. China belong to Italy.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TheTruth

Stumbling on something doesn't make it yours. China defended the sea lanes and used them to fight for your independence.


----------



## Rechoice

TheTruth said:


> Stumbling on something doesn't make it yours. China defended the sea lanes and used them to fight for your independence.



don't lie here, kiddo.


----------



## TheTruth

Truth =/= lies


----------



## Rechoice

TheTruth said:


> Truth =/= lies



Mr. The Truth is liar.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

TheTruth said:


> Those islands have always belonged to China. If you ask nicely maybe they'll give you some of the resources. And don't talk about imperialism until your made-up country is broken down into at least three.


China has *NEVER *controlled and administered the entire SC Sea in the last 2,000 years, even to date. The southernmost border of China had been the Hainan Island. 

Repeating the same shxt over and over again does not make it true.

Vietnam has historic documents showing we controlled and administered the Sea under the Nguyen dynasty.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TheTruth

Viet said:


> China has *NEVER *controlled and administered the entire SC Sea in the last 2,000 years, even to date. The southernmost border of China had been the Hainan Island.
> 
> Repeating the same shxt over and over again does not make it true.
> 
> Vietnam has historic documents showing we controlled and administered the Sea under the Nguyen dynasty.



You did not control or administer the sea, the Vietnamese were regularly owned by pirates. China kept those pirates under control for centuries, kept sea lanes open, and fought Europeans and Japan when they tried to extort and bully everyone in the region. You even refused to aid other Southeast Asian countries when called upon to do so.

As for the Philippines ... I can only laugh if they claim they were ever a naval power.


----------



## Viet

Martian2 said:


> My comment on Bloomberg News.
> 
> Philippines Summons China Envoy Over Water Cannon Use - Bloomberg


you misunderstand the principle of sovereignty. It is not discovery, you fool. Otherwise anyone can claim they were the first discovering something. In ancient times Japanese pirates attacked Chinese provinces and islands several times, so Japan can claim China too?

In order to make an island to your territory or put it under you sovereignty, you must excercise controll and administer the island. The same goes for a sea.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TheTruth

You actually can't own a sea outside of territorial waters ... but lets ignore that for now.


----------



## Viet

TheTruth said:


> You did not control or administer the sea, the Vietnamese were regularly owned by pirates. China kept those pirates under control for centuries, kept sea lanes open, and fought Europeans and Japan when they tried to extort and bully everyone in the region. You even refused to aid other Southeast Asian countries when called upon to do so.
> 
> As for the Philippines ... I can only laugh if they claim they were ever a naval power.


any sources for what you say?

Vietnam under the Nguyen had the most powerful naval fleet in SE Asia, with 30,000 sailors and hundreds of warships. The most famous naval battle between Vietnam and Thailand occured in year 1785, in Tiền Giang/ South Vietnam . Over 50,000 Siamese sailors were killed and 300 warships destroyed.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

TheTruth said:


> Try to "punish" China, and you will be nuked and carpet bombed.
> 
> A Chinese pirate queen had twice that number of sailors under her power and was never defeated ... so yeah


VN is going to have 10 nuclear power plants. there will be a lot of Plutonium as byproduct.
hundreds of nukes can be built.

where was your pirate queen? Japanese pirates attacked China over and over again. What did you do?
Crying, whining and scrapping your naval ships. LOL

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TheTruth

EastSea said:


> My English is not fair but enough to slap on your face.
> 
> you are uneducated boy, sea pirates are criminals, their activities were illegal, understand ?



You're mentally retarded as well as an ugly cunt, I will tell you for the last time - your inability to keep pace with just one pirate shows how weak the Vietnamese navy always has been.



Viet said:


> VN is going to have 10 nuclear power plants. there will be a lot of Plutonium as byproduct.
> hundreds of nukes can be built.
> 
> where was your pirate queen? Japanese pirates attacked China over and over again. What did you do?
> Crying, whining and scrapping your naval ships. LOL



Vietnam doesn't have the technical ability to produce nukes and missiles worthy enough to carry them. When Japanese pirates attacked China, they were usually killed. It was only when Chinese defectors started joining them that they became a real threat.


----------



## Genesis

too much arguing over nothing, let's debate a few things on not the ownership, but the claims.

1) Vietnam was under Chinese rule for 1,000 years before breaking free in the early days. Later dynasties either are tributary states or allies. One more occupation happened during Yongle, and then Tributary state until France.

Now during this time, either Vietnam had been under China, which would make the islands ours, or a tributary state.

So we at least have a claim IF Vietnam claim happened before Yongle invasion.

This is if we go by Ancient records.


2) These islands were claimed by the French for French Vietnam, and then they were Vessel Vietnam of America, then Communist Vietnam. So from French to Communist, if Communists were to claim these islands then Communist Vietnam accepts it succeeded Vessel and French Vietnam, or else this

So in essence, you are saying a new nation should take over all previous land owned by the previous government.

That means to Vietnam, Xinjiang, Tibet, Taiwan as well as Diaoyu(Annexed by Japan as a result of 1895 war) as well as the islands Philippines holds(Taiwan claims those islands, I don't know the details.) are all Chinese.

This is the view for modern times.


Currently just holding Taiwan, Diaoyu, the Philippines and Taiwan held islands would make China the effective ruler of the east and south China sea.

So even in the most conservative terms it still looks a great deal.


----------



## cirr

China has just turned Chiguajiao（Johnson South Reef）into Chiguadao（Johnson South Island），thereby creating a brand new 200 mile economic zone for 1.3 billion Chinese。 

Many thanks are due to：
































Our Vietnamese friends will soon hear about this from their government or the Butcher of the Vietnam War。

By the way，the engineering vessels that worked at Johnson South Reef have moved to Huayangjiao（Cuarteron Reef）。

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cirr

PS Chiguadao （Johnson South Reef）will probably become the 1st maritime county under Sansha City。


----------



## eazzy

That's Korean style.  ? (Suyan rock)


----------



## Viet

TheTruth said:


> *Vietnam doesn't have the technical ability to produce nukes and missiles worthy enough to carry them. *When Japanese pirates attacked China, they were usually killed. It was only when Chinese defectors started joining them that they became a real threat.


ha ha ha...are you sure?

Vietnam is said to possess 2,000 Scud-B missiles with 96 launchers, range of 300km, speed mach 5. The short range balistic missile can carry a nuclear warhead of 80kt. Most importantly Vietnam can self produce the missiles. If we can raise the range of the rocket to 1,000km, then we get a medium range nuclear missile.

You should know North Korea and Iran build missiles on the basis of Scud technology.















Vietnam Moves Forward With Local Rocket Fuel Research | malaysiaflyingherald

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TheTruth

300km ... lol


----------



## Viet

TheTruth said:


> 300km ... lol


dude, North Korea is developing medium and long range missiles on the basis of Scud-B. And you know Vietnam has a good relationship with the crazy North Koreans.


----------



## TheTruth

If Vietnam ever hints at going nuclear, you're going to get carpet bombed


----------



## EastSea

Genesis said:


> too much arguing over nothing, let's debate a few things on not the ownership, but the claims.
> 
> 1) Vietnam was under Chinese rule for 1,000 years before breaking free in the early days. Later dynasties either are tributary states or allies. One more occupation happened during Yongle, and then Tributary state until France.
> 
> Now during this time, either Vietnam had been under China, which would make the islands ours, or a tributary state.
> 
> So we at least have a claim IF Vietnam claim happened before Yongle invasion.
> 
> This is if we go by Ancient records.
> 
> 
> 2) These islands were claimed by the French for French Vietnam, and then they were Vessel Vietnam of America, then Communist Vietnam. So from French to Communist, if Communists were to claim these islands then Communist Vietnam accepts it succeeded Vessel and French Vietnam, or else this
> 
> So in essence, you are saying a new nation should take over all previous land owned by the previous government.
> 
> That means to Vietnam, Xinjiang, Tibet, Taiwan as well as Diaoyu(Annexed by Japan as a result of 1895 war) as well as the islands Philippines holds(Taiwan claims those islands, I don't know the details.) are all Chinese.
> 
> This is the view for modern times.
> 
> 
> Currently just holding Taiwan, Diaoyu, the Philippines and Taiwan held islands would make China the effective ruler of the east and south China sea.
> 
> So even in the most conservative terms it still looks a great deal.



1/ In 1,000 years chinese were invaders, no more. you were kicked back, ran away. Vietnam regained Independence.

This is ancient records. Chinese old book stated that there is Jiao Zhi sea, and also satated that Islands belong Southern country.

2/ From time of Nguyen Lord, Nguyen Dynasty, Islands were under official administrative control of Kingdom with "Hoang Sa sea troops".

Man Qing Canton Governor sated that Islands not belong to China.

In modern time, China occupied our Islands with force. Its illegal actions, violated rules of internal laws.



TheTruth said:


> If Vietnam ever hints at going nuclear, you're going to get carpet bombed





Don't lie. Chinese don't have capacity to do that.

US air force jets, B52 bombers was shoot down in 1972 and US army went home 1973.


----------



## TheTruth

Yeah, it's not like American bombers didn't drop the largest payload in terms of tonnage over "Indochina" during their war ...

Oh right, they did. And you forget the first invasion of Vietnam ... that CREATED your country. The rest were punishments for your evil behavior towards your neighbors.


----------



## EastSea

TheTruth said:


> Yeah, it's not like American bombers didn't drop the largest payload in terms of tonnage over "Indochina" during their war ...
> 
> Oh right, they did. And you forget the first invasion of Vietnam ... that CREATED your country. The rest were punishments for your evil behavior towards your neighbors.



Chinese aggressors were punished many time.

Last time is 1979.


----------



## TheTruth

More of you died than the other way around - despite the fact that you little imperialist wannabes got so much of your equipment from China. Lots of soldiers did die of malaria though.


----------



## eazzy

Talking about malaria, when Viet asked for help China responded : Artemisinin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Viet should be thankful !


----------



## EastSea

TheTruth said:


> More of you died than the other way around - despite the fact that you little imperialist wannabes got so much of your equipment from China. Lots of soldiers did die of malaria though.



Chinese paid too much life for human wave tactic, kid.



eazzy said:


> Talking about malaria, when Viet asked for help China responded : Artemisinin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Viet should be thankful !



shut a mouth !

France colonials kicked out from Vietnam. are you false flag Chinese. ?


----------



## TheTruth

No human waves in 1979 or the Korean War, maybe you are thinking about your mother?


----------



## Grand Historian

EastSea said:


> This is ancient records. Chinese old book stated that there is Jiao Zhi sea, and also satated that Islands belong Southern country.
> 
> 2/ From time of Nguyen Lord, Nguyen Dynasty, Islands were under official administrative control of Kingdom with "Hoang Sa sea troops".
> 
> Man Qing Canton Governor sated that Islands not belong to China.


Source?


----------



## Rechoice

Grand Historian of China don't know about it. 



Grand Historian said:


> Source?


----------



## Grand Historian

Rechoice said:


> Grand Historian of China don't know about it.


When you Vietnamese nationalists make up claims out of thin air of course I'm going to question it.


----------



## Rechoice

Grand Historian said:


> When you Vietnamese nationalists make up claims out of thin air of course I'm going to question it.



You could ask your ancestors that why they stated in their book there is Jiao Zhi sea and Islands belong to Southern Country.


----------



## cirr

EastSea said:


> Chinese aggressors were punished many time.
> 
> Last time is 1979.



Listen dude。

China only sent in a few divisions，and you lot had to call total mobilisation，and within barely one week，you lot started evacuating your people from Hanoi。

Got all nervous and panicky？Sh1t in pants？

The PLA had total control of your northern provinces and obliterated everything that's might be remotely considered useful to you lowlifes before heading home。


----------



## Zero_wing

TheTruth said:


> Those islands have always belonged to China. If you ask nicely maybe they'll give you some of the resources. And don't talk about imperialism until your made-up country is broken down into at least three.



Thats bull you have no evidence of it and you kind never will



TheTruth said:


> You did not control or administer the sea, the Vietnamese were regularly owned by pirates. China kept those pirates under control for centuries, kept sea lanes open, and fought Europeans and Japan when they tried to extort and bully everyone in the region. You even refused to aid other Southeast Asian countries when called upon to do so.
> 
> As for the Philippines ... I can only laugh if they claim they were ever a naval power.



Well since your following every arrogant nazi nations you will not be laughing for long

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TheTruth

Zero_wing said:


> Thats bull you have no evidence of it and you kind never will
> 
> 
> 
> Well since your following every arrogant nazi nations you will not be laughing for long



Nazi = disgusting Christian settlers in Bangsamoro. Your time will come.


----------



## Grand Historian

Rechoice said:


> You could ask your ancestors that why they stated in their book there is Jiao Zhi sea and Islands belong to Southern Country.


Quote the Hanzi from the book then.


----------



## ManilaBoy45

Philippines Sends Coast Guard Ships to Huangyan (Scarborough)

Philippines sends Coast Guard ships to Huangyan - WORLD - Globaltimes.cn

Global Times - Xinhua | 2014-3-5 0:48:03
By Global Times – Xinhua

Several Philippine Coast Guard (PCG) vessels have been deployed to Huangyan Island for the first time since Chinese vessels and PCG ships faced off in the South China Sea rock formation for two weeks in mid-2012, reported Philippine Daily Inquirer.PCG spokesperson Armand Balilo said on Monday that at least two Philippine Coast Guard Ships were on standby at the PCG headquarters in Port Area, Manila and waiting to be sent to the South China Sea if ordered by the higher-ups, quoted the Philippine Daily Inquirer.Balilo said they did not want to confront the Chinese Coast Guard, and that "any ship deployment to Panatag Shoal [Huangyan Island] would be done in a less provocative manner." He added that it was Philippine government policy to resolve the disputed territory peacefully and through international arbitration.


----------



## EastSea

cirr said:


> Listen dude。
> 
> China only sent in a few divisions，and you lot had to call total mobilisation，and within barely one week，you lot started evacuating your people from Hanoi。
> 
> Got all nervous and panicky？Sh1t in pants？
> 
> The PLA had total control of your northern provinces and obliterated everything that's might be remotely considered useful to you lowlifes before heading home。




No comment.


----------



## Zero_wing

TheTruth said:


> Nazi = disgusting Christian settlers in Bangsamoro. Your time will come.


This coming from a guy who's kind has killed millions ha your anti filipino stick is a failure just like your stupid claims imperialist you commies and nationalist imperialist brothers are all the same


----------



## Krueger

Thursday, March 6th, 2014




_Vietnamese Ambassador Truong Trieu Duong (right) expresses support for the Philippines in its maritime dispute with China in the West Philippines Sea in a courtesy call to Vice President Jejomar Binay on Tuesday. Photo courtesy of the Office of the Vice President
_

MANILA, Philippines — Vietnam and Malaysia are supporting the Philippines in its maritime dispute against China in the West Philippine Sea, Vice President Jejomar Binay said in a statement Thursday.

Vietnam Ambassador Truong Trieu Duong expressed support for the Philippines against China’s claims during a courtesy call to Binay on Tuesday.

Duong also told Binay that “Malaysia is keen to join us.”

He sees that the recent incident where Chinese Coast Guard vessels used water cannons to drive away Filipino fishermen from Bajo de Masinloc, also known as Panatag or Scarborough Shoal, can also happen to Vietnamese fishermen.

Vietnam is locked in a maritime dispute with China over the Paracel Islands where a military engagement in 1974 left at least 70 people dead and forced Vietnam to leave the islands.

Binay said that a “solid stand” of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (Asean) is needed to stand up against the aggressive claims of China.

“As long as we are solid in Asean, [we have a strong case on our territorial claims],” Binay said in the statement.

China claims the entirety of the South China Sea including portions of the Philippines’ and Vietnam’s 200 nautical mile exclusive economic zone (EEZ).

The Philippines has a pending arbitration case against China’s maritime claims with the International Tribunal on the Law of the Sea.

Vietnam also has claims to several maritime features in the Spratly group of islands, along with Malaysia, Brunei, Taiwan, China, and the Philippines.

Solicitor General Francis Jardeleza said in a previous forum in the University of the Philippines that Vietnam and Malaysia can help boost the case in the international tribunal by becoming a party to the Philippines’ case or filing their separate case against China.

The Department of Foreign Affairs (DFA) however has not confirmed whether any formal communication asking Vietnam and Malaysia to join the case has been made.

RELATED STORIES

*Chinese ships fire water cannon at PH fishers*

*UNCLOS explained: Why China’s claims in South China Sea are invalid*


Read more: PH has backing of Vietnam, Malaysia vs China’s sea claims | Inquirer Global Nation


----------



## eazzy

Does China enforce its non registered foreign fishermen ban ? How has Vietnam reacted ?


----------



## Genesis

eazzy said:


> Does China enforce its non registered foreign fishermen ban ? How has Vietnam reacted ?


yes we do, more or less. Not sure how they reacted, don't care.

man, I thought we stood a chance before, but now that Vietnam and Malaysia on are the scene, let's pack it up and go home.


----------



## aliaselin

Philippines really need make false news to poisoning themselves.
They pretend not to see what a good relationship China and Malaysia have.


----------



## Krueger

*China's assertiveness hardens Malaysian stance in sea dispute*
BY STUART GRUDGINGS







(Reuters) - The submerged reef would be easy to miss, under turquoise seas about 80 km (50 miles) off Malaysia's Borneo island state of Sarawak.

But two Chinese naval exercises in less than a year around the James Shoal have shocked Malaysia and led to a significant shift in its approach to China's claims to the disputed South China Sea, senior diplomats told Reuters. The reef lies outside Malaysia's territorial waters but inside its 200 nautical mile exclusive economic zone.

*The latest incident in January, in particular, prompted Malaysia to quietly step up cooperation with the Philippines and Vietnam, the two Southeast Asian nations most outspoken over China's moves in the region, in trying to tie Beijing to binding rules of conduct in the South China Sea, the diplomats said.*

Beijing's growing naval assertiveness could also push Malaysia closer to the United States, its top security ally, thus deepening divisions between Southeast Asia and China over the potentially mineral-rich waters.

Malaysia has traditionally played down security concerns in pursuit of closer economic ties with China, its biggest trade partner.

The James Shoal, which China calls Zengmu Reef, is 1,800 km (1,100 miles) from mainland China. It is closer to Malaysia, Brunei, Singapore, the Philippines, Vietnam and Indonesia - nearly all of Southeast Asia - than it is to China's coast.

Nevertheless, Beijing regards those waters as its southernmost territory, the bottom of a looping so-called nine-dash line on maps that comprise 90 percent of the 3.5 million sq km (1.35 million sq mile) South China Sea.

Pictures from China's state media on January 26 showed hundreds of Chinese sailors standing to attention on a warship's deck, backed by two destroyers and a helicopter that was reported to be at James Shoal.

Malaysia's navy chief denied the Chinese media reports at the time, telling state news agency Bernama the ships were far from Malaysian waters, which are rich in the oil and gas that power the nation's economy. He may have been able to deny the incursion because Malaysian forces did not monitor or sight the Chinese flotilla, security analysts said.

But diplomatic and naval security sources have told Reuters the exercise by three warships, which included an oath-taking ceremony to defend China's sovereignty, almost certainly took place at or close to James Shoal.

*"It's a wake-up call that it could happen to us and it is happening to us," Tang Siew Mun, a foreign policy specialist at Malaysia's Institute of Strategic and International Studies who advises the government, said of the recent incidents.*

"For some time we believed in this special relationship ... James Shoal has shown to us over and again that when it comes to China protecting its sovereignty and national interest it's a different ball game."

*MORE URGENCY ON MARITIME CODE*

Neither Malaysia's Foreign Ministry nor the prime minister's office responded to requests for comment.

While Malaysia's public response to the January incident was typically low key, senior diplomats from other Southeast Asian nations said their Malaysian counterparts had been far more active since then in pushing for a common stance in talks with China over a code of conduct for the South China Sea.

Officials from the 10-member Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) and China will resume negotiations in Singapore on March 18 after agreeing to accelerate talks last year that have made little headway so far.

The code is intended to bind China and ASEAN to detailed rules of behaviour at sea, reducing the chance of an escalation in tensions that could lead to conflict. China says it is sincere in trying to reach an agreement.

Malaysia, the Philippines, Vietnam, Brunei and Taiwan claim parts of the sea. All are members of ASEAN except Taiwan.

*Less than a week after the January incident, Malaysian Foreign Minister Anifah Aman made a previously unannounced private visit to Manila to meet his Philippine counterpart, the Philippine Foreign Ministry said. The South China Sea issue was discussed, a ministry spokesman said.

Then on February 18, officials from the Philippines, Malaysia and Vietnam held a meeting to coordinate policy towards China on the maritime dispute and code of conduct, a diplomat with knowledge of the talks in Manila said.

"In the past it was only the Philippines and Vietnam that were pushing for this meeting, but now we see Malaysia getting involved," said the diplomat.*

At the unannounced talks, the officials agreed to reject China's nine-dash line, push for an early conclusion to the code of conduct negotiations and ask Brunei to join a meeting with the three countries in Kuala Lumpur in March, the diplomat said.

Malaysia's change in tack comes ahead of visits to Kuala Lumpur by Philippine President Benigno Aquino this week and U.S. President Barack Obama in April.

*U.S. officials have also hardened their stance toward China over the South China Sea in recent weeks. On February 13, the commander of the U.S. Navy, Admiral Jonathan Greenert, said Washington would come to the aid of the Philippines in the event of conflict with China over the disputed waters.*

Those sorts of comments could embolden some countries, said Hong Nong, deputy director of the Research Centre for Oceans Law & Policy at the National Institute for South China Sea Studies on China's Hainan Island.

"That will have an influence on ASEAN. In the past the U.S. never made it clear it was going to stand by whom," said Hong.
*NEW MALAYSIAN NAVAL BASE*

In March 2013, a similar exercise at the James Shoal by a four-ship Chinese amphibious taskforce rattled Malaysia and prompted it to make a rare private protest to Beijing.

"These two developments are very worrying for Malaysia's national security establishment," said Ian Storey, a senior fellow at Singapore's Institute of Southeast Asian Studies.

*"We can anticipate there will be more of this kind of incident in the future. The PLA (People's Liberation Army) will show the flag in Malaysian waters and this will require Malaysia to recalibrate its policy."*

Malaysia already appears to be doing that.

In October, it announced plans to build a navy base in Bintulu on Sarawak, the closest major town to the James Shoal, where a new Marine Corps, modelled on the U.S. version, will be stationed. Without mentioning China, the defence minister said the aim was to protect oil and gas reserves in the region.

In unusually blunt language, Prime Minister Najib Razak said in New York last September that China was sending "mixed signals" and could not afford to alienate its Asian neighbours.

Washington is expected to give advice and possibly training to help Malaysia set up its Marine Corps, Malaysian security analysts said.

"This is a very important development," said Tang, the foreign policy specialist, adding it could significantly deepen U.S.-Malaysia military ties.

U.S. naval commander Greenert told reporters he had discussed the formation of the new Marine Corps with his Malaysian counterparts during a visit to Malaysia this month, but said details on the new force were sketchy.

*WORRY OVER CHINA REACTION*

Despite its shifting stance, Malaysia will likely stop short of risking any chill in ties with China, which routinely says its ships patrol the region to protect the country's sovereignty.

Sources close to Malaysia's government said it is not considering joining a legal challenge the Philippines has lodged against China over South China Sea claims.

Manila has taken its dispute to arbitration under the U.N. Convention on the Law of the Sea and its lawyers say the tribunal in The Hague has the power to allow other states to join the action. China is refusing to participate in the case.

Malaysia has given the impression of seeing the South China Sea dispute as a hitch in an otherwise thriving and historic relationship. Najib's father, who was also prime minister, established Malaysia's formal ties with Beijing in 1974, the first ASEAN country to do so.

Malaysia offers a "more sober and highly nuanced way of resolving regional conflicts", the pro-government New Straits Times said last October before Chinese President Xi Jinping visited the country.

Economic ties have surged, with Najib and Xi setting a goal last year to triple two-way trade to $160 billion by 2017.

One senior Western diplomat said he expected no major shift in Malaysia's overall policy of balancing its alliances with Beijing and Washington.

"In principle they are committed to the ASEAN position and the code of conduct. But at the same time they worry about a China reaction," the diplomat said.

"They think they can cut a deal. China will not cut a deal. You can see that China is getting step by step more aggressive."

China's assertiveness hardens Malaysian stance in sea dispute| Reuters




*Philippines, Malaysia agree on settlement of disputes
*





*MANILA: President Benigno “Noynoy” Aquino on Friday said the Philippines and Malaysia have agreed on the peaceful resolution of disputes among claimants in the South China in accordance with international laws particularly on the UN Conference on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS).

“We believe that adherence to the rule of law, positive engagement and sincere dialogue are fundamental if we are to build a truly prosperous and peaceful Southeast Asia where no one is left behind,” Aquino said.*

Aquino appeared in a televised joint press conference in Kuala Lumpur with Prime Minister Najib Razak of Malaysia where the Philippine leader is on a two-day state visit, which was monitored by Malacanang Palace.

To ensure security, Aquino said he and Razak also agreed to strengthen defence co-operation between the two countries, particularly on the educational and training exchanges among their military and defence officials.

The Philippines, Malaysia and their two other partners in the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (Asean) — Vietnam and Brunei — are involved in a territorial dispute with China in part or in whole over the Spratly island group in the South China Sea.

In addition, Aquino has also sought international help including Malaysia for the peaceful resolution of its dispute with China over the Scarborough Shoal where a Chinese coast guard vessel fired water cannons to drive away Filipino fishermen on Jan.27.

In the same press conference, meanwhile, Aquino also thanked the Malaysian government for brokering the negotiations since 2001 between the government and the Moro Islamic Liberation Front (MILF) that could lead to the signing of a peace treaty aimed at ending decades-long war and violence in resource-rich Mindanao.

“The successful conclusion of the Mindanao peace process,” Aquino said, “finds root in the determination of both our peoples to strengthen the foundations of peace and justice.”

In October 2012, Razak visited the Philippines on Aquino’s invitation to witness the signing of the historic framework agreement between the government and the MILF at Malacanang Palace.

Under the agreement, the government was to set up a new Bangsamoro political entity to be carved out initially from the Autonomous Region in Muslim Mindanao (ARMM) composed of the provinces of Maguindanao, Lanao del Sur, Sulu, Basilan and Tawi-Tawi as well as Marawi City.

gulftoday.ae | Philippines, Malaysia agree on settlement of disputes​


----------



## Kyusuibu Honbu

Krueger said:


> *China's assertiveness hardens Malaysian stance in sea dispute*
> BY STUART GRUDGINGS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Reuters) - The submerged reef would be easy to miss, under turquoise seas about 80 km (50 miles) off Malaysia's Borneo island state of Sarawak.
> 
> But two Chinese naval exercises in less than a year around the James Shoal have shocked Malaysia and led to a significant shift in its approach to China's claims to the disputed South China Sea, senior diplomats told Reuters. The reef lies outside Malaysia's territorial waters but inside its 200 nautical mile exclusive economic zone.
> 
> *The latest incident in January, in particular, prompted Malaysia to quietly step up cooperation with the Philippines and Vietnam, the two Southeast Asian nations most outspoken over China's moves in the region, in trying to tie Beijing to binding rules of conduct in the South China Sea, the diplomats said.*
> 
> Beijing's growing naval assertiveness could also push Malaysia closer to the United States, its top security ally, thus deepening divisions between Southeast Asia and China over the potentially mineral-rich waters.
> 
> Malaysia has traditionally played down security concerns in pursuit of closer economic ties with China, its biggest trade partner.
> 
> The James Shoal, which China calls Zengmu Reef, is 1,800 km (1,100 miles) from mainland China. It is closer to Malaysia, Brunei, Singapore, the Philippines, Vietnam and Indonesia - nearly all of Southeast Asia - than it is to China's coast.
> 
> Nevertheless, Beijing regards those waters as its southernmost territory, the bottom of a looping so-called nine-dash line on maps that comprise 90 percent of the 3.5 million sq km (1.35 million sq mile) South China Sea.
> 
> Pictures from China's state media on January 26 showed hundreds of Chinese sailors standing to attention on a warship's deck, backed by two destroyers and a helicopter that was reported to be at James Shoal.
> 
> Malaysia's navy chief denied the Chinese media reports at the time, telling state news agency Bernama the ships were far from Malaysian waters, which are rich in the oil and gas that power the nation's economy. He may have been able to deny the incursion because Malaysian forces did not monitor or sight the Chinese flotilla, security analysts said.
> 
> But diplomatic and naval security sources have told Reuters the exercise by three warships, which included an oath-taking ceremony to defend China's sovereignty, almost certainly took place at or close to James Shoal.
> 
> *"It's a wake-up call that it could happen to us and it is happening to us," Tang Siew Mun, a foreign policy specialist at Malaysia's Institute of Strategic and International Studies who advises the government, said of the recent incidents.*
> 
> "For some time we believed in this special relationship ... James Shoal has shown to us over and again that when it comes to China protecting its sovereignty and national interest it's a different ball game."
> 
> *MORE URGENCY ON MARITIME CODE*
> 
> Neither Malaysia's Foreign Ministry nor the prime minister's office responded to requests for comment.
> 
> While Malaysia's public response to the January incident was typically low key, senior diplomats from other Southeast Asian nations said their Malaysian counterparts had been far more active since then in pushing for a common stance in talks with China over a code of conduct for the South China Sea.
> 
> Officials from the 10-member Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) and China will resume negotiations in Singapore on March 18 after agreeing to accelerate talks last year that have made little headway so far.
> 
> The code is intended to bind China and ASEAN to detailed rules of behaviour at sea, reducing the chance of an escalation in tensions that could lead to conflict. China says it is sincere in trying to reach an agreement.
> 
> Malaysia, the Philippines, Vietnam, Brunei and Taiwan claim parts of the sea. All are members of ASEAN except Taiwan.
> 
> *Less than a week after the January incident, Malaysian Foreign Minister Anifah Aman made a previously unannounced private visit to Manila to meet his Philippine counterpart, the Philippine Foreign Ministry said. The South China Sea issue was discussed, a ministry spokesman said.
> 
> Then on February 18, officials from the Philippines, Malaysia and Vietnam held a meeting to coordinate policy towards China on the maritime dispute and code of conduct, a diplomat with knowledge of the talks in Manila said.
> 
> "In the past it was only the Philippines and Vietnam that were pushing for this meeting, but now we see Malaysia getting involved," said the diplomat.*
> 
> At the unannounced talks, the officials agreed to reject China's nine-dash line, push for an early conclusion to the code of conduct negotiations and ask Brunei to join a meeting with the three countries in Kuala Lumpur in March, the diplomat said.
> 
> Malaysia's change in tack comes ahead of visits to Kuala Lumpur by Philippine President Benigno Aquino this week and U.S. President Barack Obama in April.
> 
> *U.S. officials have also hardened their stance toward China over the South China Sea in recent weeks. On February 13, the commander of the U.S. Navy, Admiral Jonathan Greenert, said Washington would come to the aid of the Philippines in the event of conflict with China over the disputed waters.*
> 
> Those sorts of comments could embolden some countries, said Hong Nong, deputy director of the Research Centre for Oceans Law & Policy at the National Institute for South China Sea Studies on China's Hainan Island.
> 
> "That will have an influence on ASEAN. In the past the U.S. never made it clear it was going to stand by whom," said Hong.
> *NEW MALAYSIAN NAVAL BASE*
> 
> In March 2013, a similar exercise at the James Shoal by a four-ship Chinese amphibious taskforce rattled Malaysia and prompted it to make a rare private protest to Beijing.
> 
> "These two developments are very worrying for Malaysia's national security establishment," said Ian Storey, a senior fellow at Singapore's Institute of Southeast Asian Studies.
> 
> *"We can anticipate there will be more of this kind of incident in the future. The PLA (People's Liberation Army) will show the flag in Malaysian waters and this will require Malaysia to recalibrate its policy."*
> 
> Malaysia already appears to be doing that.
> 
> In October, it announced plans to build a navy base in Bintulu on Sarawak, the closest major town to the James Shoal, where a new Marine Corps, modelled on the U.S. version, will be stationed. Without mentioning China, the defence minister said the aim was to protect oil and gas reserves in the region.
> 
> In unusually blunt language, Prime Minister Najib Razak said in New York last September that China was sending "mixed signals" and could not afford to alienate its Asian neighbours.
> 
> Washington is expected to give advice and possibly training to help Malaysia set up its Marine Corps, Malaysian security analysts said.
> 
> "This is a very important development," said Tang, the foreign policy specialist, adding it could significantly deepen U.S.-Malaysia military ties.
> 
> U.S. naval commander Greenert told reporters he had discussed the formation of the new Marine Corps with his Malaysian counterparts during a visit to Malaysia this month, but said details on the new force were sketchy.
> 
> *WORRY OVER CHINA REACTION*
> 
> Despite its shifting stance, Malaysia will likely stop short of risking any chill in ties with China, which routinely says its ships patrol the region to protect the country's sovereignty.
> 
> Sources close to Malaysia's government said it is not considering joining a legal challenge the Philippines has lodged against China over South China Sea claims.
> 
> Manila has taken its dispute to arbitration under the U.N. Convention on the Law of the Sea and its lawyers say the tribunal in The Hague has the power to allow other states to join the action. China is refusing to participate in the case.
> 
> Malaysia has given the impression of seeing the South China Sea dispute as a hitch in an otherwise thriving and historic relationship. Najib's father, who was also prime minister, established Malaysia's formal ties with Beijing in 1974, the first ASEAN country to do so.
> 
> Malaysia offers a "more sober and highly nuanced way of resolving regional conflicts", the pro-government New Straits Times said last October before Chinese President Xi Jinping visited the country.
> 
> Economic ties have surged, with Najib and Xi setting a goal last year to triple two-way trade to $160 billion by 2017.
> 
> One senior Western diplomat said he expected no major shift in Malaysia's overall policy of balancing its alliances with Beijing and Washington.
> 
> "In principle they are committed to the ASEAN position and the code of conduct. But at the same time they worry about a China reaction," the diplomat said.
> 
> "They think they can cut a deal. China will not cut a deal. You can see that China is getting step by step more aggressive."
> 
> in.reuters.com/article/2014/02/26/malaysia-china-maritime-idINDEEA1P0GL20140226
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Philippines, Malaysia agree on settlement of disputes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MANILA: President Benigno “Noynoy” Aquino on Friday said the Philippines and Malaysia have agreed on the peaceful resolution of disputes among claimants in the South China in accordance with international laws particularly on the UN Conference on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS).
> 
> “We believe that adherence to the rule of law, positive engagement and sincere dialogue are fundamental if we are to build a truly prosperous and peaceful Southeast Asia where no one is left behind,” Aquino said.
> 
> Aquino appeared in a televised joint press conference in Kuala Lumpur with Prime Minister Najib Razak of Malaysia where the Philippine leader is on a two-day state visit, which was monitored by Malacanang Palace.
> 
> To ensure security, Aquino said he and Razak also agreed to strengthen defence co-operation between the two countries, particularly on the educational and training exchanges among their military and defence officials.
> 
> The Philippines, Malaysia and their two other partners in the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (Asean) — Vietnam and Brunei — are involved in a territorial dispute with China in part or in whole over the Spratly island group in the South China Sea.
> 
> In addition, Aquino has also sought international help including Malaysia for the peaceful resolution of its dispute with China over the Scarborough Shoal where a Chinese coast guard vessel fired water cannons to drive away Filipino fishermen on Jan.27.
> 
> In the same press conference, meanwhile, Aquino also thanked the Malaysian government for brokering the negotiations since 2001 between the government and the Moro Islamic Liberation Front (MILF) that could lead to the signing of a peace treaty aimed at ending decades-long war and violence in resource-rich Mindanao.
> 
> “The successful conclusion of the Mindanao peace process,” Aquino said, “finds root in the determination of both our peoples to strengthen the foundations of peace and justice.”
> 
> In October 2012, Razak visited the Philippines on Aquino’s invitation to witness the signing of the historic framework agreement between the government and the MILF at Malacanang Palace.
> 
> Under the agreement, the government was to set up a new Bangsamoro political entity to be carved out initially from the Autonomous Region in Muslim Mindanao (ARMM) composed of the provinces of Maguindanao, Lanao del Sur, Sulu, Basilan and Tawi-Tawi as well as Marawi City.
> 
> gulftoday.ae | Philippines, Malaysia agree on settlement of disputes​


 
Interesting, Malaysia was only one among few nations, which did not overtly raise concerns of China with USA in diplomatic cables


----------



## ViXuyen

Viet said:


> any sources for what you say?
> 
> Vietnam under the Nguyen had the most powerful naval fleet in SE Asia, with 30,000 sailors and hundreds of warships. The most famous naval battle between Vietnam and Thailand occured in year 1785, in Tiền Giang/ South Vietnam . Over 50,000 Siamese sailors were killed and 300 warships destroyed.


In 1644, just the navy of Nguyen Lord hammered a fleet of the Dutch in one battle near Thuan An. The warships of the Tay Son in the 1790's could mount 66 cannons on them; a feat could only be rivaled by the Europeans at that time. The Tokugawa Shogunate of Japan did not sue for "trade" with Viet Nam by accident. Viet Nam always had a strong navy throughout history and this 21st century is the resurrection of our past glory.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Genesis

watch at 1:50, lol I thought this ship was fake, a joke, but it actually exist rofl 






lol, this is just too much, lol.

China really does look the bully, we are arguing with a people that uses ship unfit for Somalian pirates, lol. This is not a proud moment for the Chinese, 20 years later when we look back, this isn't a conflict, it's a joke.


----------



## Zero_wing

Genesis said:


> watch at 1:50, lol I thought this ship was fake, a joke, but it actually exist rofl
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lol, this is just too much, lol.
> 
> China really does look the bully, we are arguing with a people that uses ship unfit for Somalian pirates, lol. This is not a proud moment for the Chinese, 20 years later when we look back, this isn't a conflict, it's a joke.



Man underestimating us will be your undoing


----------



## WuMaoCleverbot

*No basis in China’s historical right over West Phl Sea’*
By Edu Punay (The Philippine Star) | Updated March 10, 2014 - 12:00am

MANILA, Philippines - China’s most salient argument in its territorial claim over the West Philippine Sea – its historical right – holds no water, according to a senior justice of the Supreme Court (SC).

“China’s claim to a historical right to the waters enclosed within the nine-dash lines in the South China Sea is utterly without basis under international law,” Senior Associate Justice Antonio Carpio said, echoing what he said is “almost universal opinion of non-Chinese scholars on the law of the sea.”

In his speech during the 19th National Convention and Seminar of the Philippine Women Judges Association last week, Carpio cited China’s claim of “historical facts” on Scarborough Shoal.

*China claims that Scarborough Shoal, which it calls Huangyan Island, is the Nanhai Island that 13th century Chinese astronomer-engineer-mathematician Guo Shoujing allegedly visited in 1279 on the order of Kublai Khan, the first emperor of the Yuan Dynasty, to conduct a survey of the Four Seas to update the Sung Dynasty calendar system.

This supposed visit of Gou Shoujing to Scarborough Shoal in 1279 is the only historical link that China claims to Scarborough Shoal. 

But Carpio stressed that China already used the same claim in another territorial dispute – against Vietnam over the Paracels islands.*

Headlines ( Article MRec ), pagematch: 1, sectionmatch: 1
He cited a January 30, 1980 document titled “China’s Sovereignty Over Xisha and Zhongsa Islands Is Indisputable” published in Beijing Review, saying that China’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs officially declared that the Nanhai Island that Guo Shoujing visited in 1279 was in Xisha or what is internationally called the Paracels, a group of islands more than 380 NM from Scarborough Shoal.

“China issued this official document to bolster its claim to the Paracels to counter Vietnam’s strong historical claims to the same islands. The astronomical observation point Nanhai was today’s Xisha Islands. It shows that Xisha Islands were within the bounds of China at the time of the Yuan dynasty,” Carpio pointed out.

Carpio, who has apparently been studying the territorial dispute pending before the United Nations International Tribunal on Law of the Seas (ITLOS), also noted that it is puzzling how Guo Shoujing went ashore to “visit” Scarborough Shoal when “it was just a rock, with no vegetation, and did not even have enough space to accommodate an expedition party.”

“Worse, the Chinese historical account that Guo Shoujing installed one of the 27 Chinese observatories on Nanhai Island clearly rules out any possibility that Scarborough is Nanhai Island because no observatory could have possibly been physically installed on Scarborough Shoal at that time,” he added.

Assuming China’s historical claim is valid, it should no longer be honored under international law, particularly the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), Carpio said.

“First, UNCLOS extinguished all historical rights of other states within the 200 nautical miles exclusive economic zone of the adjacent coastal state. That is why this 200 NM zone is called ‘exclusive’ – no state other than the adjacent coastal state can exploit economically its resources. Fishing rights that other states historically enjoyed within the EEZ of a coastal state automatically terminated upon the effectivity of UNCLOS,” he explained.

“Moreover, UNCLOS prohibits states from making any reservation or exception to UNCLOS unless expressly allowed by UNCLOS. Any reservation of claims to historical rights over the EEZ or ECS of another coastal state is prohibited because UNCLOS does not expressly allow a state to claim historical rights to the EEZ or ECS of another state. In short, UNCLOS does not recognize ‘historical rights’ as basis for claiming the EEZs or ECSs of other coastal states,” he added.

The SC justice also argued that a state can only claim “historical rights” over waters that are part of its internal waters or territorial sea.

“The South China Sea, beyond the 12 NM territorial sea of coastal states, has never been considered as the internal waters or territorial sea of any state. Since time immemorial, ships of all nations have exercised freedom of navigation in the South China Sea,” he noted.

“If the South China Sea were the internal waters or territorial sea of China, then no state could have exercised freedom of navigation and freedom of over-flight over the South China Sea,” he added.

In other words, Carpio said China’s claim to the waters enclosed by the nine-dash line claim does not fall under any of the maritime zones – internal waters, territorial sea, EEZ and ECS – recognized by UNCLOS that can be claimed by a coastal state. 

Lastly, the SC justice said China failed to satisfy any of the conditions to claim historical rights under the general principles and rules of international law: formal announcement to the international community, continuous exercise of sovereignty over the waters it claims as its own internal waters or territorial sea, and recognition and tolerance from other states.

China’s nine-dash line claim was “never effectively enforced.”

“China officially notified the world of its nine-dash line claim only in 2009 when China submitted the nine-dash line map to the United Nations Secretary General. Not a single country in the world recognizes, respects, tolerates or acquiesces to China’s nine-dash line claim,” Carpio stressed.

And while the issue has not yet reached the High Court, Carpio said the government should fight China’s claim that puts at stake 80 percent of its exclusive economic zone and 100 percent of its extended continental shelf in the West Philippines Sea.

It was not the first time Carpio publicly defended the government’s claim on the disputed islands and waters.

Last year, the magistrate said he believes the Philippines will win the arbitration case before ITLOS. But at the same time, he was pessimistic as to whether China would comply with a hostile ruling. Because of this, he said international support to the Philippines’ case would be vital.

‘No basis in China’s historical right over West Phl Sea’ | Headlines, News, The Philippine Star | philstar.com


----------



## Rahul9090

The Philippines strongly protested Tuesday China's recent actions to drive away two Philippine navy chartered vessels that tried to approach the Second Thomas Shoal, a submerged shoal in the South China Sea.

"China's actions constitute a clear and urgent threat to the rights and interests of the Philippines under the 1982 U.N. Convention on the Law of the Sea," a statement issued by the Department of Foreign Affairs said.

The Second Thomas Shoal, known in the Philippines as the Ayungin Shoal, is about 105 nautical miles off the coast of the Philippines' westernmost island province Palawan.

China calls it as Ren'ai Reef.

The statement said the shoal "is part of the Philippines and therefore, the Philippines is entitled to exercise sovereignty rights and jurisdiction in the area without the permission of other States."

"Furthermore, the civilian vessels contracted by the Philippine Navy were only conducting rotation of personnel and resupply operations," it said.

Raul Hernandez, a spokesman for the Department of Foreign Affairs, said the department summoned Chinese Charge d'Affaires Sun Xiangyang " to hand over a note verbale to express (the Philippines') objection to China's actions and urged China to desist from any further interference with the efforts of the Philippines to undertake rotation and resupply operations at the shoal."

Quoting Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Qin Gang, Reuters reported Monday the Chinese ships were patrolling waters around Second Thomas Shoal when they spotted the Philippine boats carrying construction materials and Philippine flags.

The boats left the area after being warned off, the report said.

Hernandez said the incident happened around 9:30 a.m. Sunday.

"(The Chinese coast guard ships) just appeared and sometime later they tried to block our ships," he told reporters.

Peter Paul Galvez, a spokesman for the Philippine Department of National Defense, said the ships were en route to the shoal "to re-provision."

He said the ships were chartered by the Philippine navy, but he did not say if the boats were carrying construction materials.

The submerged Second Thomas Shoal is part of a group of islands, rocks, reefs and cays known together as the Spratly Islands that are claimed in part or in whole by China, Taiwan, Vietnam, Malaysia, the Philippines and Brunei.

The Philippines has garrisoned troops on nine pieces of disputed territory, including the Second Thomas Shoal.

Beijing has demanded Manila remove a rusty, World War II-vintage landing ship it grounded on the shoal in 1999 that serves as an outpost for Philippine troops.

Since February last year, the Philippine military has noted an increase in sightings of Chinese maritime law enforcement vessels and Chinese navy ships in the vicinity of the Second Thomas Shoal.

On Feb. 25, the Philippines lodged a similar protest against the Chinese coast guard for using water cannons to drive away Filipino fishermen near the disputed Scarborough Shoal in the South China Sea in January.

The shoal, known in the Philippines as Panatag or Bajo de Masinloc and in China as Huangyan Island, is 230 kilometers from Luzon, the main island of the Philippines, north of the Spratly Islands.

Philippines protests Chinese actions in disputed sea | GlobalPost

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## tranquilium

Hey, if you think "China's actions constitute a clear and urgent threat to the rights and interests of the Philippines under the 1982 U.N. Convention on the Law of the Sea,", why don't you try to sue China again in UN court? Maybe it will turn out better than the last half dozen times?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Superboy

tranquilium said:


> Hey, if you think "China's actions constitute a clear and urgent threat to the rights and interests of the Philippines under the 1982 U.N. Convention on the Law of the Sea,", why don't you try to sue China again in UN court? Maybe it will turn out better than the last half dozen times?




UN? Seriously?  Which countries in the UN has power?


----------



## tranquilium

Superboy said:


> UN? Seriously?  Which countries in the UN has power?



Exactly. There is a joke regarding UN:

When UN tries to settle dispute between two small nations, the dispute is gone.
When UN tries to settle dispute between a small nation and a major nation, the small nation is gone.
When UN tries to settle dispute between two major nations, UN is gone.


----------



## Genesis

Go to the UN, America has set the precedent, UN is useless, while Russia has confirmed it. So one doesn't have the moral high ground the other needs us. 

Now what can the Philippines offer.


----------



## Viet

UN is useless. the bigger wins, the smaller loses. Jungle´s law. Chinese posters here are drunken. But perhaps they are right.


----------



## Genesis

Viet said:


> UN is useless. the bigger wins, the smaller loses. Jungle´s law. Chinese posters here are drunken. But perhaps they are right.



Small doesn't have to lose, the UK didn't, but you can't do what the UK did, not because you are inferior but because the timing is not right and you are not exactly starting on equal ground.

Small also don't have to lose, if you are smart, admit when you are no match, but then use that to your advantage. China needs a friend to legitimize South China Sea, I mean we could do without, but it's always nice if we had support, and it'll be quicker, as well as not give America a chance at interfering. 

Vietnam can never lead China, but you could lead ASEAN, massive investments, quality military equipment at a way better price, and much more.

Sure, you lose on the South China sea, but it's a token lose, you were never going to win that, but instead you could gain the partnership of the next super power. You won't say the UK is not respected today because they aren't the US are you. Leading ASEAN is a far better prize to my mind, it's more lucrative and we can also cut you in to our African and South American holdings.


But I know all I'm going to hear from Vietnam members is either, PLA no morale, Chinese economy done, Vietnam Vietnam Vietnam, or 1979. BTW, just a fun read, check out the Ethiopian and Italian conflict, the first and second one.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

Genesis said:


> Small doesn't have to lose, the UK didn't, but you can't do what the UK did, not because you are inferior but because the timing is not right and you are not exactly starting on equal ground.
> 
> Small also don't have to lose, if you are smart, admit when you are no match, but then use that to your advantage. China needs a friend to legitimize *South China Sea*, I mean we could do without, but it's always nice if we had support, and it'll be quicker, as well as not give America a chance at interfering.
> 
> Vietnam can never lead China, but you could lead ASEAN, massive investments, quality military equipment at a way better price, and much more.
> 
> Sure, you lose on the South China sea, but it's a token lose, you were never going to win that, but instead you could gain the partnership of the next super power. You won't say the UK is not respected today because they aren't the US are you. Leading ASEAN is a far better prize to my mind, *it's more lucrative and we can also cut you in to our African and South American holdings.*
> 
> 
> But I know all I'm going to hear from Vietnam members is either, PLA no morale, Chinese economy done, Vietnam Vietnam Vietnam, or 1979. BTW, just a fun read, check out the Ethiopian and Italian conflict, the first and second one.


I am afraid I cannot follow you.

No, we cannot give you the SC Sea, neither the Gulf of Thailand. Because in doing so, we are cut off from the sea and at your mercy. The first Vietnamese came from the sea, the sea is our lifeline.

Nor we can give you the control of Laos and Cambodia. Because we dislike the encirclement.

We can talk over everything else. For instance, we can talk how we share the control of the sea lanes and resources. Leading ASEAN or having something in Africa or South America is something too far remote.

As for 1979, actually it is just a minor issue. Vietnam had endured far more difficult times in the past, where Vietnam fate was at stake.


----------



## Genesis

Viet said:


> I am afraid I cannot follow you.
> 
> No, we cannot give you the SC Sea, neither the Gulf of Thailand. Because in doing so, we are cut off from the sea and at your mercy. The first Vietnamese came from the sea, the sea is our lifeline.
> 
> Nor we can give you the control of Laos and Cambodia. Because we dislike the encirclement.
> 
> We can talk over everything else. For instance, we can talk how we share the control of the sea lanes and resources. Leading ASEAN or having something in Africa or South America is something too far remote.
> 
> As for 1979, actually it is just a minor issue. Vietnam had endured far more difficult times in the past, where Vietnam fate was at stake.



I'm afraid you are only cut off if you don't comply. If you did we could cooperate. You think we want the South China Sea? Yes, but not in the way you think, we want Americans out. Everything else is on the table. 

And you are at our mercy, the US neither claims nor owns the China seas or any other seas, but you would be foolish to think you are not at their mercy, any one of their battle groups can destroy most nation's entire navy.

Just like the Philippines, their shoals are ours, because we have de facto control. 

I specifically said you can have ASEAN, which includes Cambodia and Laos. We don't want to encircle you, encirclement is only relevant if we are equal in strength, we can take you however we want, why encircle.


China doesn't have a plan to destroy Vietnam, your government is also not going in the direction of war, which is good. Not acting like the Philippines which means they are still thinking and discussing. All good signs.

Vietnam keep thinking that we want to destroy or take from Vietnam, but in reality you guys are just standing on the wrong side, as soon as you switch, you will see benefits.

Just look at our relations abroad, investments, fair weapon sales, and much more. We are a far better ally than enemy.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TheTruth

Viet said:


> I am afraid I cannot follow you.
> 
> No, we cannot give you the SC Sea, neither the Gulf of Thailand. Because in doing so, we are cut off from the sea and at your mercy. The first Vietnamese came from the sea, the sea is our lifeline.
> 
> Nor we can give you the control of Laos and Cambodia. Because we dislike the encirclement.



I don't believe China has ever said it wants to monopolize the sea lanes. That's American propaganda. And China isn't controlling Laos and Cambodia, they are acting in their own interests.


----------



## Viet

TheTruth said:


> I don't believe China has ever said it wants to monopolize the sea lanes. That's American propaganda. And China isn't controlling Laos and Cambodia, they are acting in their own interests.


not you, neither Taiwan.
It is rather the dream of genesis, or should I say, the mainlanders.


----------



## Genesis

Viet said:


> not you, neither Taiwan.
> It is rather the dream of genesis, or should I say, the mainlanders.


oh it's not a dream, our type 52D will enter service shortly, the number is already painted.

Type 52D is surpasses all Vietnam surface combatant put together, but it's not just that. The Type 52 is more advanced than Burke II, a little smaller, if I remember correctly, but its technology is more advanced. 

If the past 100 years have taught us anything is on the seas, better ship wins, more ship wins, period. There is no morale, no nationalism. 

And I clearly said, as long as the US is out of the equation, anything else is on the table. Three times including this one.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TheTruth

China has never said that it intends to control the sea lanes. Most of this is about them wanting to keep the US terrorists away.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## BoQ77

Genesis said:


> oh it's not a dream, our type 52D will enter service shortly, the number is already painted.
> 
> Type 52D is surpasses all Vietnam surface combatant put together, but it's not just that. The Type 52 is more advanced than Burke II, a little smaller, if I remember correctly, but its technology is more advanced.
> 
> If the past 100 years have taught us anything is on the seas, better ship wins, more ship wins, period. There is no morale, no nationalism.
> 
> And I clearly said, as long as the US is out of the equation, anything else is on the table. Three times including this one.



You exaggerate the new Type 52D too much !!!
Yeah it's still superior until the new Type 52E with less-flaw come out.
What will happen to your Type 52C, the 2 last of it just lauched last year


----------



## Genesis

BoQ77 said:


> You exaggerate the new Type 52D too much !!!
> Yeah it's still superior until the new Type 52E with less-flaw come out.
> What will happen to your Type 52C, the 2 last of it just lauched last year



Type 52C is still very good, it's going to be used. These ships are not suppose to operate alone they are suppose to go in groups. The idea behind the Aegis system is to share info between ships. 

Now to the claim, I didn't include corvettes, they are either on order or way too small, even for a corvette to matter into this discussion.

So Petya class, these are so old and not stealthy, you may as well stick a sign that says sink me on it, cause Falklands war proved non stealth ships are easy prey to even cheap weapons. China has one of the most advanced anti ship missiles and 64 of them, well it includes anti air as well as other. But at least enough to destroy 7 ships. 

We have a 130 mm cannon on this ship compared to your 76 mm, this is way more advanced and can fire from a way longer range.

We have the latest in AESA ship radars, compared to the Soviet radars on these, or on the Gepard. Gepard follows the Soviet doctorine of sticking as many weapons as possible on a ship, in the end it's a glorified corvette. 

We can detect you before you could us, not to mention we have more fire power on this one DDG than all 7 ships ccombined. 

Ask an Indian member or any other member to chip in if you don't believe me.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## xuxu1457

I find the shamless declaration, we should remove the deliberately beached broken boat

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## BoQ77

Genesis said:


> Type 52C is still very good, it's going to be used. These ships are not suppose to operate alone they are suppose to go in groups. The idea behind the Aegis system is to share info between ships.
> 
> Now to the claim, I didn't include corvettes, they are either on order or way too small, even for a corvette to matter into this discussion.
> 
> So Petya class, these are so old and not stealthy, you may as well stick a sign that says sink me on it, cause Falklands war proved non stealth ships are easy prey to even cheap weapons. China has one of the most advanced anti ship missiles and 64 of them, well it includes anti air as well as other. But at least enough to destroy 7 ships.
> 
> We have a 130 mm cannon on this ship compared to your 76 mm, this is way more advanced and can fire from a way longer range.
> 
> We have the latest in AESA ship radars, compared to the Soviet radars on these, or on the Gepard. Gepard follows the Soviet doctorine of sticking as many weapons as possible on a ship, in the end it's a glorified corvette.
> 
> We can detect you before you could us, not to mention we have more fire power on this one DDG than all 7 ships ccombined.
> 
> Ask an Indian member or any other member to chip in if you don't believe me.



Previous posting you compare to Burke class II, now you compare to Vietnamese navy ... I don't get your idea ...
In sea combat, we depends on anti-ship missiles from air, sub, and surface combatant,... even coastal defense system
We believe our anti ship missile range about 290-300 km ... from all platform ...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## bolo

xuxu1457 said:


> I find the shamless declaration, we should remove the deliberately beached broken boat


 
all they have to do is cut the attachment to the anchor


----------



## BoQ77

Vietnam never abandon our claim on the shoal ... Phillipine could get benefit from that act.


----------



## conworldus

BoQ77 said:


> Vietnam never abandon our claim on the shoal ... Phillipine could get benefit from that act.


You do realize that Vietnam claims almost the entire South China Sea, too, right? How's that in the interest of the Philippines?


----------



## BoQ77

conworldus said:


> You do realize that Vietnam claims almost the entire South China Sea, too, right? How's that in the interest of the Philippines?



Let think, not read only


----------



## Wholegrain

BoQ77 said:


> Let think, not read only



You keep talking about the "true face" of China, why not show thte "true face" of Vietnam?

Mission to Vietnam Advocacy Day (Vietnamese-American Meet up 2013) in the U.S. Capitol. A UPR report By IOC-Campa.



> In 2012, the local police used their power to bust into a local Mosque and took away a generator that provided electricity to over 40 families in the village of Chau Giang, and not long after that they came and kidnapped young village girls at their discretion to rape and sexually abuse them, eventually releasing them.
> On 2009, a farm land owned by 13 Cham families From Vân Lâm villages was confiscated, when they tried to stand up for their ownership, they were apprehended by the police and discarded in an undisclosed remote location in the jungle.
> In 2010, two young Cham college students from Thành Tín village are on vacation took a walk from their village to the city being stop and beat up to death.
> In March 2013, a poor Cham college student Thành Xuân Thịnh from Phươc Nhơn village took out a loan for school, upon graduation he was unable to get a job and sought the help of staffing agency to place him in a position, so he could pay back his student loans. The agency had promised to staff him within weeks. After a few months, he was still unemployed, and when he approached the agency about a refund, they set him on fire, and he burned to death.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

Wholegrain said:


> You keep talking about the "true face" of China, why not show thte "true face" of Vietnam?
> 
> Mission to Vietnam Advocacy Day (Vietnamese-American Meet up 2013) in the U.S. Capitol. A UPR report By IOC-Campa.



off topic, kid. I can tell you about East Turkistans here.

You can ask why Champa King Che Bong Nga (制蓬峩) liked to annex Viets to Champa. He attacked us until he died when he occupied Hanoi.


----------



## BoQ77

Wholegrain said:


> You keep talking about the "true face" of China, why not show thte "true face" of Vietnam?
> 
> Mission to Vietnam Advocacy Day (Vietnamese-American Meet up 2013) in the U.S. Capitol. A UPR report By IOC-Campa.



You telling us a rumor ...


----------



## Zero_wing

Well at less we keeping it under international law if china wants to be the next Nazi Germany or old Imperial Japan they can do so but on their own risk



xuxu1457 said:


> I find the shamless declaration, we should remove the deliberately beached broken boat



Try so and the Philippine Marines station there will shoot the ship may be old but the Marines there have good weapons to keep you Imperial invaders away


----------



## TheTruth

Zero_wing said:


> Well at less we keeping it under international law if china wants to be the next Nazi Germany or old Imperial Japan they can do so but on their own risk
> 
> 
> 
> Try so and the Philippine Marines station there will shoot the ship may be old but the Marines there have good weapons to keep you Imperial invaders away



Your army of convicts and losers is a joke, they can only fight unarmed civilians that are unsuspecting due to being nowhere near "Filipino Waters".


----------



## Zero_wing

TheTruth said:


> Your army of convicts and losers is a joke, they can only fight unarmed civilians that are unsuspecting due to being nowhere near "Filipino Waters".



haha nice try 9 dot claim is stupid and illogical


----------



## Nike

*Indonesia’s Military Flexes Muscle as S. China Sea Dispute Looms*







Indonesian Navy ship

By Jakarta Globe on 10:45 pm Mar 13, 2014
*Category Asia-Pacific, Featured, News, Politics, SE Asia
Tags: China, indonesia, natuna, South China Sea, TNI


Jakarta. In a move that could have serious repercussions for the security situation in the South China Sea, Indonesian officials on Wednesday acknowledged that China was claiming part of Indonesia’s Riau Islands province as its own territory.

The Indonesian Military’s (TNI) Air Commodore Fahru Zaini, who is a member of the defense strategy unit at the office of the coordinating minister for political, legal and security affairs, said that China had included parts of the Natuna Islands within its so-called nine-dash line.

This line indicates the border of China’s maritime claims, comprising almost the entire South China Sea. An image depicting the nine-dash line was also included in newly issued Chinese passports.

“What China has done affects the Unitary State of Indonesia,” Fahru said in Natuna on Wednesday.

“As such, we have come to Natuna to see firsthand the strategic position of the TNI, especially in its ability, strength and its deployment of troops, just in case anything should happen in this region.”

Indonesia is not the only country whose territory China has laid claim to, with Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei, the Philippines and Taiwan all experiencing similar problems in the South China Sea.

Fahru emphasized that in order to protect Indonesian territorial integrity, it was important to strengthen social cohesion in the country’s outlying areas, like the district of Natuna.

“[In] border areas such as Natuna, the unity of people across all ethnicities needs to be strengthened — unity needs to be prioritized so that it will not be easily influenced by other countries,” he said, adding that Indonesia was strategically located, with foreign boats and aircraft passing by on a daily basis.

“This strategic location can be an advantage, but there are some downsides. It all depends on how we implement it as a state,” Fahru said.

Gen. Moeldoko, the TNI chief, last week flew to China to attend a meeting with his Chinese counterpart to affirm Indonesia’s commitment to stabilizing the volatile South China Sea area.

Returning from his trip, Moeldoko said he had plans to further strengthen Indonesia’s presence in the Natuna Islands, because of their strategic location.

“We have to continue monitoring the developments in the South China Sea cautiously,” Moeldoko told reporters last week, as quoted by Tempo.co.

He emphasized that any negative events taking place in the area could have a dangerous impact on Indonesia, saying that he had asked the heads of the Army, the Navy and the Air Force to put together a formula to strengthen the military force in Natuna.

He also added that the military would be adding at least one Army battalion in addition to strengthening its existing naval base in Natuna.

“We will also prepare fighter aircraft in the area,” he said.

Japan eyeing arms exports

Underlining the precariousness of the security situation in East and Southeast Asia, Japan’s government is planning to overhaul its self-imposed ban on arms exports, an official said on Thursday.

The government of Prime Minister Shinzo Abe has delivered the blueprint to lawmakers in his ruling Liberal Democratic Party and coalition partner New Komeito, according to an LDP official, with the premier looking for a green light from the cabinet by the end of the month.

The relaxed rules could allow Tokyo to supply weaponry to nations that sit along important sea lanes to help them fight piracy and also help resource-poor Japan, which depends on mineral imports.

Japanese arms could potentially be shipped to Indonesia as well as other nations around the South China Sea — through which fossil fuels pass — such as the Philippines, for example, which also disputes Beijing’s maritime claims expressed in the nine-dash line.

Japan already supplies equipment to the Philippines’ coast guard, an organization that is increasingly on the front line in the nation’s territorial rows with Beijing. Any move to bolster that support with more outright weapon supplies could irk China, which regularly accuses Abe of trying to re-militarize his country.

Under its 1967 ban, Japan does not sell arms to communist nations, countries where the United Nations bans weapons sales, and nations that might become involved in armed conflicts.

The rule has long enjoyed widespread public support as a symbol of Japan’s post-World War II pacifism.

But it has been widely seen as impractical among experts, because it stops Japan from joining international projects to jointly develop sophisticated military equipment, such as jets and missiles.

In 2011 Tokyo eased the ban on arms exports, paving the way for Japanese firms to take part in multinational weapons projects. Japan works with its only official ally the United States on weapon projects.

Evaluation of strength

The TNI has been training in Natuna to improve its position there. In October last year, 21 fighter airplanes took part in a training operation called Angkasa Yudha 2013, during which a number of bombs and rockets were dropped off the eastern part of Natuna Island.

The Air Force’s chief of staff, Air Chief Marshal Ida Bagus Putu Dunia, said the target of the training was to test the operating unit, including the aircraft, personnel and other supporting systems.

“From this [training] we will be able to evaluate our strength,” Ida said, as quoted in a report by Poskotanews.com.

In a report by VOA Indonesia on Feb. 28, Mahfudz Siddik, the chairman of the House of Representatives’ Commission I, which oversees foreign and defense affairs, said his commission was in full support of the TNI’s plan to boost security in the Natuna area.

“The TNI commander has shared with us his plans to make the Natuna Islands a frontier base for the TNI, which is important and strategic for Indonesia because it will help efforts to secure Indonesia’s maritime area, particularly in an area that sees heavy traffic,” he said.

“Additionally, that is also a step to anticipate or respond to the increasing tensions in the South China Sea.”

Mahfudz said that House Commission I was discussing the plan with the government, especially on issues related to budgeting for the TNI.

“The TNI commander has not yet shared the details of the budget that will be needed, but this has been included in the allocated budget for the military in 2014 and may also extend to the 2015 annual budget. The point is, the development of the Natuna area as a frontier base has been allocated,” Mahfudz said.

Military analyst Wawan Purwanto said efforts to strengthen the military presence in border areas should be a priority.

“It is areas that border directly with other countries that are most sensitive and need to be strengthened. And Indonesia has recently been enhancing its weaponry defense system, especially its radar, its missile system, as well its armament and its equipment,” Wawan said as quoted by VOA Indonesia.

Australian drones

To Indonesia’s south, meanwhile, Australia on Thursday announced plans for a fleet of giant high-tech unmanned drones to help patrol borders and monitoring energy infrastructure and attempts to enter the country illegally.

Prime Minister Tony Abbott said the Triton unmanned aerial vehicles, which can remain airborne for 33 hours, would be based in the southern city of Adelaide.

A report in February said seven of the US-made drones would be purchased for A$3 billion ($2.7 billion), but Abbott said the details of how many, when they would be bought and the cost had not yet been finalized.

“These aircraft will patrol Australia’s vast ocean approaches, and work closely with other existing and future Australian Defense Force assets to secure our ocean resources, including energy resources off northern Australia, and help to protect our borders,” he said.

“They will provide the Australian Defense Force with unprecedented maritime surveillance capabilities, operating at altitudes up to 55,000 feet [16,800 meters] over extremely long ranges while remaining airborne for up to 33 hours.”

Australia, a close ally of the United States, is expected to use the drones to patrol far over the Indian Ocean, which has become one of the world’s most vital energy supply routes.

They could also be used to detect illegal fishermen and asylum seekers, who frequently enter Australian waters to the north on rickety boats, usually setting sail from Indonesia and Sri Lanka.

The asylum-seeker and fishermen issues, along with allegations of spying on senior Indonesians officials and incursions by the Australian navy into Indonesian waters, have seriously dented bilateral relations.

Indonesia suspended cooperation in a number of areas including intelligence sharing on people smuggling and military exercises following last year’s revelations that Australia had tapped the phones of President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, his wife and others, in 2009.

The Australian drone announcement comes just weeks after Canberra said it would buy eight new Poseidon aircraft for A$4 billion to form the core of its surveillance and maritime strike capacity for decades to come.

“Given that Australia has responsibility for something like 11 percent of the world’s oceans, it’s very important that we’ve got a very effective maritime surveillance capability,” Abbott said.

Additional reporting from AFP

Indonesia's Military Flexes Muscle as S. China Sea Dispute Looms - The Jakarta Globe

*
_what's happening here, i though China was quite satisfied enough with their current claims? do you want to make our country to join the fray too against your ambitions?_

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## GR!FF!N

dafuq?????Riau Islands now????






its almost near Coast of Malaysia..is it me or others too think that China increased its 9 dotted Line???






that large dot is outside of this 9 dotted line completely,right???that red arrow points Riau Islands...

@Viet @Zero_wing @Battle of Bach Dang River @Kiss_of_the_Dragon @Genesis @shuttler and others....


----------



## Wholegrain

madokafc said:


> *Indonesia’s Military Flexes Muscle as S. China Sea Dispute Looms*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indonesian Navy ship
> 
> By Jakarta Globe on 10:45 pm Mar 13, 2014
> *Category Asia-Pacific, Featured, News, Politics, SE Asia
> Tags: China, indonesia, natuna, South China Sea, TNI
> 
> 
> Jakarta. In a move that could have serious repercussions for the security situation in the South China Sea, Indonesian officials on Wednesday acknowledged that China was claiming part of Indonesia’s Riau Islands province as its own territory.
> 
> The Indonesian Military’s (TNI) Air Commodore Fahru Zaini, who is a member of the defense strategy unit at the office of the coordinating minister for political, legal and security affairs, said that China had included parts of the Natuna Islands within its so-called nine-dash line.
> 
> This line indicates the border of China’s maritime claims, comprising almost the entire South China Sea. An image depicting the nine-dash line was also included in newly issued Chinese passports.
> 
> “What China has done affects the Unitary State of Indonesia,” Fahru said in Natuna on Wednesday.
> 
> “As such, we have come to Natuna to see firsthand the strategic position of the TNI, especially in its ability, strength and its deployment of troops, just in case anything should happen in this region.”
> 
> Indonesia is not the only country whose territory China has laid claim to, with Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei, the Philippines and Taiwan all experiencing similar problems in the South China Sea.
> 
> Fahru emphasized that in order to protect Indonesian territorial integrity, it was important to strengthen social cohesion in the country’s outlying areas, like the district of Natuna.
> 
> “[In] border areas such as Natuna, the unity of people across all ethnicities needs to be strengthened — unity needs to be prioritized so that it will not be easily influenced by other countries,” he said, adding that Indonesia was strategically located, with foreign boats and aircraft passing by on a daily basis.
> 
> “This strategic location can be an advantage, but there are some downsides. It all depends on how we implement it as a state,” Fahru said.
> 
> Gen. Moeldoko, the TNI chief, last week flew to China to attend a meeting with his Chinese counterpart to affirm Indonesia’s commitment to stabilizing the volatile South China Sea area.
> 
> Returning from his trip, Moeldoko said he had plans to further strengthen Indonesia’s presence in the Natuna Islands, because of their strategic location.
> 
> “We have to continue monitoring the developments in the South China Sea cautiously,” Moeldoko told reporters last week, as quoted by Tempo.co.
> 
> He emphasized that any negative events taking place in the area could have a dangerous impact on Indonesia, saying that he had asked the heads of the Army, the Navy and the Air Force to put together a formula to strengthen the military force in Natuna.
> 
> He also added that the military would be adding at least one Army battalion in addition to strengthening its existing naval base in Natuna.
> 
> “We will also prepare fighter aircraft in the area,” he said.
> 
> Japan eyeing arms exports
> 
> Underlining the precariousness of the security situation in East and Southeast Asia, Japan’s government is planning to overhaul its self-imposed ban on arms exports, an official said on Thursday.
> 
> The government of Prime Minister Shinzo Abe has delivered the blueprint to lawmakers in his ruling Liberal Democratic Party and coalition partner New Komeito, according to an LDP official, with the premier looking for a green light from the cabinet by the end of the month.
> 
> The relaxed rules could allow Tokyo to supply weaponry to nations that sit along important sea lanes to help them fight piracy and also help resource-poor Japan, which depends on mineral imports.
> 
> Japanese arms could potentially be shipped to Indonesia as well as other nations around the South China Sea — through which fossil fuels pass — such as the Philippines, for example, which also disputes Beijing’s maritime claims expressed in the nine-dash line.
> 
> Japan already supplies equipment to the Philippines’ coast guard, an organization that is increasingly on the front line in the nation’s territorial rows with Beijing. Any move to bolster that support with more outright weapon supplies could irk China, which regularly accuses Abe of trying to re-militarize his country.
> 
> Under its 1967 ban, Japan does not sell arms to communist nations, countries where the United Nations bans weapons sales, and nations that might become involved in armed conflicts.
> 
> The rule has long enjoyed widespread public support as a symbol of Japan’s post-World War II pacifism.
> 
> But it has been widely seen as impractical among experts, because it stops Japan from joining international projects to jointly develop sophisticated military equipment, such as jets and missiles.
> 
> In 2011 Tokyo eased the ban on arms exports, paving the way for Japanese firms to take part in multinational weapons projects. Japan works with its only official ally the United States on weapon projects.
> 
> Evaluation of strength
> 
> The TNI has been training in Natuna to improve its position there. In October last year, 21 fighter airplanes took part in a training operation called Angkasa Yudha 2013, during which a number of bombs and rockets were dropped off the eastern part of Natuna Island.
> 
> The Air Force’s chief of staff, Air Chief Marshal Ida Bagus Putu Dunia, said the target of the training was to test the operating unit, including the aircraft, personnel and other supporting systems.
> 
> “From this [training] we will be able to evaluate our strength,” Ida said, as quoted in a report by Poskotanews.com.
> 
> In a report by VOA Indonesia on Feb. 28, Mahfudz Siddik, the chairman of the House of Representatives’ Commission I, which oversees foreign and defense affairs, said his commission was in full support of the TNI’s plan to boost security in the Natuna area.
> 
> “The TNI commander has shared with us his plans to make the Natuna Islands a frontier base for the TNI, which is important and strategic for Indonesia because it will help efforts to secure Indonesia’s maritime area, particularly in an area that sees heavy traffic,” he said.
> 
> “Additionally, that is also a step to anticipate or respond to the increasing tensions in the South China Sea.”
> 
> Mahfudz said that House Commission I was discussing the plan with the government, especially on issues related to budgeting for the TNI.
> 
> “The TNI commander has not yet shared the details of the budget that will be needed, but this has been included in the allocated budget for the military in 2014 and may also extend to the 2015 annual budget. The point is, the development of the Natuna area as a frontier base has been allocated,” Mahfudz said.
> 
> Military analyst Wawan Purwanto said efforts to strengthen the military presence in border areas should be a priority.
> 
> “It is areas that border directly with other countries that are most sensitive and need to be strengthened. And Indonesia has recently been enhancing its weaponry defense system, especially its radar, its missile system, as well its armament and its equipment,” Wawan said as quoted by VOA Indonesia.
> 
> Australian drones
> 
> To Indonesia’s south, meanwhile, Australia on Thursday announced plans for a fleet of giant high-tech unmanned drones to help patrol borders and monitoring energy infrastructure and attempts to enter the country illegally.
> 
> Prime Minister Tony Abbott said the Triton unmanned aerial vehicles, which can remain airborne for 33 hours, would be based in the southern city of Adelaide.
> 
> A report in February said seven of the US-made drones would be purchased for A$3 billion ($2.7 billion), but Abbott said the details of how many, when they would be bought and the cost had not yet been finalized.
> 
> “These aircraft will patrol Australia’s vast ocean approaches, and work closely with other existing and future Australian Defense Force assets to secure our ocean resources, including energy resources off northern Australia, and help to protect our borders,” he said.
> 
> “They will provide the Australian Defense Force with unprecedented maritime surveillance capabilities, operating at altitudes up to 55,000 feet [16,800 meters] over extremely long ranges while remaining airborne for up to 33 hours.”
> 
> Australia, a close ally of the United States, is expected to use the drones to patrol far over the Indian Ocean, which has become one of the world’s most vital energy supply routes.
> 
> They could also be used to detect illegal fishermen and asylum seekers, who frequently enter Australian waters to the north on rickety boats, usually setting sail from Indonesia and Sri Lanka.
> 
> The asylum-seeker and fishermen issues, along with allegations of spying on senior Indonesians officials and incursions by the Australian navy into Indonesian waters, have seriously dented bilateral relations.
> 
> Indonesia suspended cooperation in a number of areas including intelligence sharing on people smuggling and military exercises following last year’s revelations that Australia had tapped the phones of President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, his wife and others, in 2009.
> 
> The Australian drone announcement comes just weeks after Canberra said it would buy eight new Poseidon aircraft for A$4 billion to form the core of its surveillance and maritime strike capacity for decades to come.
> 
> “Given that Australia has responsibility for something like 11 percent of the world’s oceans, it’s very important that we’ve got a very effective maritime surveillance capability,” Abbott said.
> 
> Additional reporting from AFP
> 
> Indonesia's Military Flexes Muscle as S. China Sea Dispute Looms - The Jakarta Globe
> 
> *
> _what's happening here, i though China was quite satisfied enough with their current claims? do you want to make our country to join the fray too against your ambitions?_



Natuna islands are not claimed by China. The dispute is the maritime boundary (the waters), not the islands. China did not add anything to the original nine dash line or advanced its claims further, this dispute was known decades ago.

Natuna Islands

Natuna Islands
The Natunas, some 400 miles northeast of Sumatra, have been a subject of dispute since 1993, when Beijing published a map showing Chinese "historic claims" on a gas field northeast of the islands. Jakarta rejected these claims as without basis in international law. *China has since sought to reassure Indonesia that it does not lay claim to the Natunas, nor all the waters of the South China. China renounced its claims on the Natunas in 1995*, but not the gas field....

Although *China does not claim the Natuna Islands themselves, considered Indonesian territory*, PRC maps of the region include the waters just north of the Natunas. Indonesia insists the area is part of its EEZ. These waters cover part of the world’s largest offshore gas fields. With an estimated 1.27 trillion cubic meters of recoverable gas, they represent 40% of Indonesia’s gas reserves.......


----------



## danger007

wtf... chinese getting greedy every day with their false claim. .

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

madokafc said:


> *Indonesia’s Military Flexes Muscle as S. China Sea Dispute Looms*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indonesian Navy ship
> 
> By Jakarta Globe on 10:45 pm Mar 13, 2014
> *Category Asia-Pacific, Featured, News, Politics, SE Asia
> Tags: China, indonesia, natuna, South China Sea, TNI
> 
> Jakarta. In a move that could have serious repercussions for the security situation in the South China Sea, Indonesian officials on Wednesday acknowledged that China was claiming part of Indonesia’s Riau Islands province as its own territory.
> 
> The Indonesian Military’s (TNI) Air Commodore Fahru Zaini, who is a member of the defense strategy unit at the office of the coordinating minister for political, legal and security affairs, said that China had included parts of the Natuna Islands within its so-called nine-dash line.
> 
> This line indicates the border of China’s maritime claims, comprising almost the entire South China Sea. An image depicting the nine-dash line was also included in newly issued Chinese passports.
> 
> “What China has done affects the Unitary State of Indonesia,” Fahru said in Natuna on Wednesday.
> 
> “As such, we have come to Natuna to see firsthand the strategic position of the TNI, especially in its ability, strength and its deployment of troops, just in case anything should happen in this region.”
> 
> Indonesia is not the only country whose territory China has laid claim to, with Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei, the Philippines and Taiwan all experiencing similar problems in the South China Sea.
> 
> Fahru emphasized that in order to protect Indonesian territorial integrity, it was important to strengthen social cohesion in the country’s outlying areas, like the district of Natuna.
> 
> “[In] border areas such as Natuna, the unity of people across all ethnicities needs to be strengthened — unity needs to be prioritized so that it will not be easily influenced by other countries,” he said, adding that Indonesia was strategically located, with foreign boats and aircraft passing by on a daily basis.
> 
> “This strategic location can be an advantage, but there are some downsides. It all depends on how we implement it as a state,” Fahru said.
> 
> Gen. Moeldoko, the TNI chief, last week flew to China to attend a meeting with his Chinese counterpart to affirm Indonesia’s commitment to stabilizing the volatile South China Sea area.
> 
> Returning from his trip, Moeldoko said he had plans to further strengthen Indonesia’s presence in the Natuna Islands, because of their strategic location.
> 
> “We have to continue monitoring the developments in the South China Sea cautiously,” Moeldoko told reporters last week, as quoted by Tempo.co.
> 
> He emphasized that any negative events taking place in the area could have a dangerous impact on Indonesia, saying that he had asked the heads of the Army, the Navy and the Air Force to put together a formula to strengthen the military force in Natuna.
> 
> He also added that the military would be adding at least one Army battalion in addition to strengthening its existing naval base in Natuna.
> 
> “We will also prepare fighter aircraft in the area,” he said.
> 
> Japan eyeing arms exports
> 
> Underlining the precariousness of the security situation in East and Southeast Asia, Japan’s government is planning to overhaul its self-imposed ban on arms exports, an official said on Thursday.
> 
> The government of Prime Minister Shinzo Abe has delivered the blueprint to lawmakers in his ruling Liberal Democratic Party and coalition partner New Komeito, according to an LDP official, with the premier looking for a green light from the cabinet by the end of the month.
> 
> The relaxed rules could allow Tokyo to supply weaponry to nations that sit along important sea lanes to help them fight piracy and also help resource-poor Japan, which depends on mineral imports.
> 
> Japanese arms could potentially be shipped to Indonesia as well as other nations around the South China Sea — through which fossil fuels pass — such as the Philippines, for example, which also disputes Beijing’s maritime claims expressed in the nine-dash line.
> 
> Japan already supplies equipment to the Philippines’ coast guard, an organization that is increasingly on the front line in the nation’s territorial rows with Beijing. Any move to bolster that support with more outright weapon supplies could irk China, which regularly accuses Abe of trying to re-militarize his country.
> 
> Under its 1967 ban, Japan does not sell arms to communist nations, countries where the United Nations bans weapons sales, and nations that might become involved in armed conflicts.
> 
> The rule has long enjoyed widespread public support as a symbol of Japan’s post-World War II pacifism.
> 
> But it has been widely seen as impractical among experts, because it stops Japan from joining international projects to jointly develop sophisticated military equipment, such as jets and missiles.
> 
> In 2011 Tokyo eased the ban on arms exports, paving the way for Japanese firms to take part in multinational weapons projects. Japan works with its only official ally the United States on weapon projects.
> 
> Evaluation of strength
> 
> The TNI has been training in Natuna to improve its position there. In October last year, 21 fighter airplanes took part in a training operation called Angkasa Yudha 2013, during which a number of bombs and rockets were dropped off the eastern part of Natuna Island.
> 
> The Air Force’s chief of staff, Air Chief Marshal Ida Bagus Putu Dunia, said the target of the training was to test the operating unit, including the aircraft, personnel and other supporting systems.
> 
> “From this [training] we will be able to evaluate our strength,” Ida said, as quoted in a report by Poskotanews.com.
> 
> In a report by VOA Indonesia on Feb. 28, Mahfudz Siddik, the chairman of the House of Representatives’ Commission I, which oversees foreign and defense affairs, said his commission was in full support of the TNI’s plan to boost security in the Natuna area.
> 
> “The TNI commander has shared with us his plans to make the Natuna Islands a frontier base for the TNI, which is important and strategic for Indonesia because it will help efforts to secure Indonesia’s maritime area, particularly in an area that sees heavy traffic,” he said.
> 
> “Additionally, that is also a step to anticipate or respond to the increasing tensions in the South China Sea.”
> 
> Mahfudz said that House Commission I was discussing the plan with the government, especially on issues related to budgeting for the TNI.
> 
> “The TNI commander has not yet shared the details of the budget that will be needed, but this has been included in the allocated budget for the military in 2014 and may also extend to the 2015 annual budget. The point is, the development of the Natuna area as a frontier base has been allocated,” Mahfudz said.
> 
> Military analyst Wawan Purwanto said efforts to strengthen the military presence in border areas should be a priority.
> 
> “It is areas that border directly with other countries that are most sensitive and need to be strengthened. And Indonesia has recently been enhancing its weaponry defense system, especially its radar, its missile system, as well its armament and its equipment,” Wawan said as quoted by VOA Indonesia.
> 
> Australian drones
> 
> To Indonesia’s south, meanwhile, Australia on Thursday announced plans for a fleet of giant high-tech unmanned drones to help patrol borders and monitoring energy infrastructure and attempts to enter the country illegally.
> 
> Prime Minister Tony Abbott said the Triton unmanned aerial vehicles, which can remain airborne for 33 hours, would be based in the southern city of Adelaide.
> 
> A report in February said seven of the US-made drones would be purchased for A$3 billion ($2.7 billion), but Abbott said the details of how many, when they would be bought and the cost had not yet been finalized.
> 
> “These aircraft will patrol Australia’s vast ocean approaches, and work closely with other existing and future Australian Defense Force assets to secure our ocean resources, including energy resources off northern Australia, and help to protect our borders,” he said.
> 
> “They will provide the Australian Defense Force with unprecedented maritime surveillance capabilities, operating at altitudes up to 55,000 feet [16,800 meters] over extremely long ranges while remaining airborne for up to 33 hours.”
> 
> Australia, a close ally of the United States, is expected to use the drones to patrol far over the Indian Ocean, which has become one of the world’s most vital energy supply routes.
> 
> They could also be used to detect illegal fishermen and asylum seekers, who frequently enter Australian waters to the north on rickety boats, usually setting sail from Indonesia and Sri Lanka.
> 
> The asylum-seeker and fishermen issues, along with allegations of spying on senior Indonesians officials and incursions by the Australian navy into Indonesian waters, have seriously dented bilateral relations.
> 
> Indonesia suspended cooperation in a number of areas including intelligence sharing on people smuggling and military exercises following last year’s revelations that Australia had tapped the phones of President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, his wife and others, in 2009.
> 
> The Australian drone announcement comes just weeks after Canberra said it would buy eight new Poseidon aircraft for A$4 billion to form the core of its surveillance and maritime strike capacity for decades to come.
> 
> “Given that Australia has responsibility for something like 11 percent of the world’s oceans, it’s very important that we’ve got a very effective maritime surveillance capability,” Abbott said.
> 
> Additional reporting from AFP
> 
> Indonesia's Military Flexes Muscle as S. China Sea Dispute Looms - The Jakarta Globe
> *
> _what's happening here, i though China was quite satisfied enough with their current claims? do you want to make our country to join the fray too against your ambitions?_


Welcome to the club. I am happy to see now you realise what China wants. Everything!



Wholegrain said:


> Natuna islands are not claimed by China. The dispute is the maritime boundary (the waters), not the islands. China did not add anything to the original nine dash line or advanced its claims further, this dispute was known decades ago.
> 
> Natuna Islands
> 
> Natuna Islands
> The Natunas, some 400 miles northeast of Sumatra, have been a subject of dispute since 1993, when Beijing published a map showing Chinese "historic claims" on a gas field northeast of the islands. Jakarta rejected these claims as without basis in international law. *China has since sought to reassure Indonesia that it does not lay claim to the Natunas, nor all the waters of the South China. China renounced its claims on the Natunas in 1995*, but not the gas field....
> 
> Although *China does not claim the Natuna Islands themselves, considered Indonesian territory*, PRC maps of the region include the waters just north of the Natunas. Indonesia insists the area is part of its EEZ. These waters cover part of the world’s largest offshore gas fields. With an estimated 1.27 trillion cubic meters of recoverable gas, they represent 40% of Indonesia’s gas reserves.......


so you mean the TNI air commander is a liar?


----------



## TheTruth

No, he just doesn't have the facts straight. I'm sure someone else in the Indonesian gov't is going to clarify his statement. If Indonesia negotiates in good faith there will be no problems. 



danger007 said:


> wtf... chinese getting greedy every day with their false claim. .



Hilarious coming from an Indian that occupies Tibetan, Burmese and Mon land just so you can humiliate and molest the women. You or your children will pay dearly for your hypocrisy and evil.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Nike

TheTruth said:


> *No, he just doesn't have the facts straight. I'm sure someone else in the Indonesian gov't is going to clarify his statement. If Indonesia negotiates in good faith there will be no problems. *
> 
> 
> 
> Hilarious coming from an Indian that occupies Tibetan, Burmese and Mon land just so you can humiliate and molest the women. You or your children will pay dearly for your hypocrisy and evil.



*The Indonesian Military’s (TNI) Air Commodore Fahru Zaini, who is a member of the defense strategy unit at the office of the coordinating minister for political, legal and security affairs, said that China had included parts of the Natuna Islands within its so-called nine-dash line.*

he is one of Indonesian think-tank analyst and strategic political and security affairs member, his voice right now must be the voice of Indonesian government


----------



## Wholegrain

madokafc said:


> *The Indonesian Military’s (TNI) Air Commodore Fahru Zaini, who is a member of the defense strategy unit at the office of the coordinating minister for political, legal and security affairs, said that China had included parts of the Natuna Islands within its so-called nine-dash line.*
> 
> he is one of Indonesian think-tank analyst and strategic political and security affairs member, his voice right now must be the voice of Indonesian government



He specified that it was the *waters* of the islands, not the islands themselves.

Indonesia says China claiming part of its waters | ABS-CBN News



> JAKARTA - China has claimed some parts of Indonesian *territorial waters* in the South China Sea, Indonesian government officials said Thursday.
> 
> The state-run news agency Antara on Thursday quoted 1st Marshall Fahru Zaini, assistant deputy to the coordinating minister for political, legal and security affairs, as saying that China has included some parts of Indonesian *territorial waters in the Natuna Sea, *located in the South China Sea, into its nine-dash-line territorial map.
> 
> He was referring to Beijing's U-shaped "uninterrupted line" enclosing the entire South China Sea.
> 
> "This claim will very much affect the Natuna sea security," Fahru said, stressing that China has breached Indonesian territory.
> 
> The map, according to Fahru, has also been included in newly issued passports of Chinese citizens.





> Agus Sriyono, deputy for foreign policy affairs at the office of the coordinating minister for political, legal and security affairs, later told Kyodo News *that the claim by China is still related to "our territorial waters," not the islands located therein.*
> 
> No actions have been taken, however, by Jakarta to respond to the claim.



The dispute is about the EEZ of Natuna. China rejected claiming the Natuna islands as part of its territories.

Natuna Islands



> The Natunas, some 400 miles northeast of Sumatra, have been a subject of dispute since 1993, when Beijing published a map showing Chinese "historic claims" on a gas field northeast of the islands. Jakarta rejected these claims as without basis in international law. China has since sought to reassure Indonesia that it does not lay claim to the Natunas, nor all the waters of the South China. China renounced its claims on the Natunas in 1995, but not the gas field.





> Although China does not claim the Natuna Islands themselves, considered Indonesian territory, PRC maps of the region include the waters just north of the Natunas. Indonesia insists the area is part of its EEZ. These waters cover part of the world’s largest offshore gas fields. With an estimated 1.27 trillion cubic meters of recoverable gas, they represent 40% of Indonesia’s gas reserves


----------



## BoQ77

Wholegrain said:


> He specified that it was the *waters* of the islands, not the islands themselves.
> 
> Indonesia says China claiming part of its waters | ABS-CBN News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The dispute is about the EEZ of Natuna. China rejected claiming the Natuna islands as part of its territories.
> 
> Natuna Islands



If China move forward, I guess Vietnam would join the front for bring China to Arbitration, or suggest to build a Military Alliance with Indonesia, Malaysia, Phillipin, Singapore, USA, Japan, South Korea, India, Brunei ... to protect Southeast Asia ...

Just my guess, with assumption that China would force one by one country by their military


----------



## TheTruth

rofl, why would Singapore and South Korea be in your alliance? Why would Malaysia or the Philippines, considering they have just as much of a dispute with you?


----------



## BoQ77

TheTruth said:


> rofl, why would Singapore and South Korea be in your alliance? Why would Malaysia or the Philippines, considering they have just as much of a dispute with you?



Singapore is the founder of the Alliance as it existed. Vietnam not now.
The sea area should belong to Southeast Asia nations first. then we could nego in peace.
There's no peace to nego with China ... we know ...

Korea, why Korea gives the Coast guard ships to Vietnam? not like USA and Japan, we received and three of them operated under Vietnam flag already. 

Tomorrow, Vietnam president pay a visit to Japan and would be received by Japan Emperor ... for something new and important


----------



## TheTruth

The sea area doesn't belong to anyone, are you illiterate in geopolitics? China claims the features, not the entire sea like you and the Philippines.


----------



## BoQ77

TheTruth said:


> The sea area doesn't belong to anyone, are you illiterate in geopolitics? China claims the features, not the entire sea like you and the Philippines.



You are not wiser


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

GR!FF!N said:


> dafuq?????Riau Islands now????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> its almost near Coast of Malaysia..is it me or others too think that China increased its 9 dotted Line???
> 
> View attachment 21189
> 
> 
> that large dot is outside of this 9 dotted line completely,right???that red arrow points Riau Islands...
> 
> @Viet @Zero_wing @Battle of Bach Dang River @Kiss_of_the_Dragon @Genesis @shuttler and others....



The so-called "nine dash line" *Chinese greedy claim* that also violates into EEZ of Natuna Islands (Indonesia). China is deliberately hiding this fact to lull Indonesian. Indonesia should act rightnow before it is too late...


----------



## Wholegrain

Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> The so-called "nine dash line" *Chinese greedy claim* that also violates into EEZ of Natuna Islands (Indonesia). China is deliberately hiding this fact to lull Indonesian. Indonesia should act rightnow before it is too late...



You are a liar, China openly brought up the issue of the EEZ with Indonesia and hid nothing. Its the Indonesian government which downplayed the dispute.

Natuna Islands

The Natunas, some 400 miles northeast of Sumatra, have been a subject of dispute since 1993, when Beijing published a map showing Chinese "historic claims" on a gas field northeast of the islands. Jakarta rejected these claims as without basis in international law. China has since sought to reassure Indonesia that it does not lay claim to the Natunas, nor all the waters of the South China. China renounced its claims on the Natunas in 1995, but not the gas field.

Although China does not claim the Natuna Islands themselves, considered Indonesian territory, PRC maps of the region include the waters just north of the Natunas. Indonesia insists the area is part of its EEZ. These waters cover part of the world’s largest offshore gas fields. With an estimated 1.27 trillion cubic meters of recoverable gas, they represent 40% of Indonesia’s gas reserves


----------



## cnleio

Each country can throw money into this 'Black Hole' of South China Sea dispute, when their government bankrupt Chinese will come back again.


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

Wholegrain said:


> You are a liar, China openly brought up the issue of the EEZ with Indonesia and hid nothing. Its the Indonesian government which downplayed the dispute.
> 
> Natuna Islands
> 
> The Natunas, some 400 miles northeast of Sumatra, have been a subject of dispute since 1993, when Beijing published a map showing Chinese "historic claims" on a gas field northeast of the islands. Jakarta rejected these claims as without basis in international law. China has since sought to reassure Indonesia that it does not lay claim to the Natunas, nor all the waters of the South China. China renounced its claims on the Natunas in 1995, but not the gas field.
> 
> Although China does not claim the Natuna Islands themselves, considered Indonesian territory, PRC maps of the region include the waters just north of the Natunas. Indonesia insists the area is part of its EEZ. These waters cover part of the world’s largest offshore gas fields. With an estimated 1.27 trillion cubic meters of recoverable gas, they represent 40% of Indonesia’s gas reserves



Your quote also said that.



> The Natunas, some 400 miles northeast of Sumatra, have been a subject of dispute since 1993, when *Beijing published a map showing Chinese "historic claims" on a gas field northeast of the islands. Jakarta rejected these claims as without basis in international law*. China has since sought to reassure Indonesia that it does not lay claim to the Natunas, nor all the waters of the South China. China renounced its claims on the Natunas in 1995, but not the gas field.
> 
> *Although China does not claim the Natuna Islands themselves, considered Indonesian territory, PRC maps of the region include the waters just north of the Natunas. Indonesia insists the area is part of its EEZ*. These waters cover part of the world’s largest offshore gas fields. With an estimated 1.27 trillion cubic meters of recoverable gas, they represent 40% of Indonesia’s gas reserves


----------



## Wholegrain

Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> Your quote also said that.
> 
> The Natunas, some 400 miles northeast of Sumatra, have been a subject of dispute since 1993, when *Beijing published a map showing Chinese "historic claims" on a gas field northeast of the islands. Jakarta rejected these claims as without basis in international law*. China has since sought to reassure Indonesia that it does not lay claim to the Natunas, nor all the waters of the South China. China renounced its claims on the Natunas in 1995, but not the gas field.
> 
> *Although China does not claim the Natuna Islands themselves, considered Indonesian territory, PRC maps of the region include the waters just north of the Natunas. Indonesia insists the area is part of its EEZ*. These waters cover part of the world’s largest offshore gas fields. With an estimated 1.27 trillion cubic meters of recoverable gas, they represent 40% of Indonesia’s gas reserves


[/quote]

You are a liar, you claimed China hid the claims from Indonesia when it did not and openly told Indonesia what was disputed.



Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> The so-called "nine dash line" *Chinese greedy claim* that also violates into EEZ of Natuna Islands (Indonesia). *China is deliberately hiding this fact to lull Indonesian.* Indonesia should act rightnow before it is too late...


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

Wholegrain said:


> You are a liar, you claimed China hid the claims from Indonesia when it did not and openly told Indonesia what was disputed.


Still your quote:

*China has since sought to reassure Indonesia that it does not lay claim to the Natunas, nor all the waters of the South China*


----------



## Wholegrain

Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> You are a liar, you claimed China hid the claims from Indonesia when it did not and openly told Indonesia what was disputed.


Still your quote:

*China has since sought to reassure Indonesia that it does not lay claim to the Natunas, nor all the waters of the South China*[/quote]

That is true, China does not claim the Natuna islands nor all of the waters of thr South China sea, which Indonesia is concned about because of maritime shipping. China specified to Indonesia it claims part of what Indonesia considers Natuna's EEZ. China openly said this to Indonesia. This is an old dispute which Indonesia was well aware of but played down.

Natuna Islands

The Natunas, some 400 miles northeast of Sumatra, have been a subject of dispute since 1993, when Beijing published a map showing Chinese "historic claims" on a gas field northeast of the islands. Jakarta rejected these claims as without basis in international law. China has since sought to reassure Indonesia that it does not lay claim to the Natunas, nor all the waters of the South China. China renounced its claims on the Natunas in 1995, *but not the gas field.*

Although China does not claim the Natuna Islands themselves, considered Indonesian territory, *PRC maps of the region include the waters just north of the Natunas*. Indonesia insists the area is part of its EEZ. These waters cover part of the world’s largest offshore gas fields. With an estimated 1.27 trillion cubic meters of recoverable gas, they represent 40% of Indonesia’s gas reserves


----------



## Wholegrain

Zero_wing said:


> haha nice try 9 dot claim is stupid and illogical



The Philippines claim to Spratlys, Sabah, Mindanao and Sulu fits that description.


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

Wholegrain said:


> That is true, China does not claim the Natuna islands nor all of the waters of thr South China sea, which Indonesia is concned about because of maritime shipping. China specified to Indonesia it claims part of what Indonesia considers Natuna's EEZ. China openly said this to Indonesia. This is an old dispute which Indonesia was well aware of but played down.
> 
> Natuna Islands
> 
> The Natunas, some 400 miles northeast of Sumatra, have been a subject of dispute since 1993, when Beijing published a map showing Chinese "historic claims" on a gas field northeast of the islands. Jakarta rejected these claims as without basis in international law. China has since sought to reassure Indonesia that it does not lay claim to the Natunas, nor all the waters of the South China. China renounced its claims on the Natunas in 1995, *but not the gas field.*
> 
> Although China does not claim the Natuna Islands themselves, considered Indonesian territory, *PRC maps of the region include the waters just north of the Natunas*. Indonesia insists the area is part of its EEZ. These waters cover part of the world’s largest offshore gas fields. With an estimated 1.27 trillion cubic meters of recoverable gas, they represent 40% of Indonesia’s gas reserves



Natuna Islands fully international legal basis for its EEZ 200 nm. What the hell base on for China claims that water?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ViXuyen

The Phillipines would need to put more boats on patrol; otherwise, over a long period of time the chinkom fishermen and coast guard will make it a habit or legitimacy that any sea sovereinty of the Phillipines will no longer under the jurisdiction of the Phillipine. This 400-ton boat that Viet Nam builds for $1 million usd is very friendly in term of price.

1 AK-176M 76.2mm
1 AK-630M 30mm
2 KPTV 14.5mm
2 Igla/Igla-S
30 day endurance
4600 km range


----------



## cirr

CCG 3402


----------



## hurt

ViXuyen said:


> The Phillipines would need to put more boats on patrol; otherwise, over a long period of time the chinkom fishermen and coast guard will make it a habit or legitimacy that any sea sovereinty of the Phillipines will no longer under the jurisdiction of the Phillipine. This 400-ton boat that Viet Nam builds for $1 million usd is very friendly in term of price.
> 
> 1 AK-176M 76.2mm
> 1 AK-630M 30mm
> 2 KPTV 14.5mm
> 2 Igla/Igla-S
> 30 day endurance
> 4600 km range


very fridendly price
TT-400TP gunboat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Cost:US$1,000,000 *Unarmed*
No radar,no fire warning system and weapons control systems and no weapon =$1 million •

maybe no Diesel engines.

Plz tell me how much about Mtu 4000kw x 3


----------



## Rechoice




----------



## Zero_wing

Wholegrain said:


> The Philippines claim to Spratlys, Sabah, Mindanao and Sulu fits that description.



Funny Mindanao is part of the Philippines Sabah was place on us by the Sultan of Sulu and Spratlys are part of the Philippines due to UNCLOS Archipelagic Doctrine all base on international law your claims are not only stupid but full of anti filipino bull$hit nothing more


----------



## hurt

Rechoice said:


>


CSB-8003 : korea coast guard's HAN-RIVER class 1003
*Commissioned in 1983*
Displacement: 1,000 tonnes

31 years old


----------



## Krueger

Prashanth Parameswaran 
March 18, 2014






On March 18, officials from China and the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) will meet in Singapore to discuss steps towards an elusive code of conduct in the contentious South China Sea dispute. If the past is any indicator, China will ensure that such diplomacy will produce little significant progress even as it continues to coercively change realities on the ground in its favor. While cooler heads hope diplomacy will prevail, hope is not a strategy. Southeast Asian officials and other external partners like the United States and Japan need to use the full range of instruments at their disposal to persuade Beijing about the urgent need for a diplomatic solution, dissuade it from undertaking further destabilizing moves, and prepare for a range of crises in the absence of Chinese cooperation.

Since 2009, China has displayed a growing assertiveness towards ASEAN states in the South China Sea, using a combination of diplomatic, administrative and military instruments to impose unilateral fishing bans, harass vessels, and patrol contested waters. Despite the so-called ‘charm offensive’ by China’s new leadership in the region in 2013, Beijing’s conduct in the South China Sea has remained largely unchanged, with a new fishing law promulgated in January, invasive patrols and encroachments into waters of other claimants, and foot-dragging at talks over a code of conduct it finally agreed to discussing last year. Meanwhile, the specter of an Air Defense Identification Zone (ADIZ) over the South China Sea also continues to loom large. Yet, as former CIA senior analyst Chris Johnson told a forum at the Center for Strategic and International Studies earlier this year, unlike most other observers China’s leaders continue to see no contradiction between seeking better relations with Southeast Asia and assertively defending their sovereignty claims at the expense of other ASEAN claimants.

Given this, it is now up to ASEAN states and their partners to craft an integrated strategy in the diplomatic, legal and security realms geared towards both steering Beijing away from its assertiveness if possible, and preparing to counter it effectively should it continue or intensify. In the diplomatic domain, ASEAN states and other parties should continue to consistently emphasize the cardinal principle that all countries – including China – need to resolve their disputes by peaceful means in accordance with international law. The principal means to reach this objective is a legally binding code of conduct. In spite of Chinese stalling, ASEAN states should remain united in insisting on both its speedy conclusion and meaningful content, including key mechanisms like a crisis management hotline.

While all ASEAN countries ought to be united in pursuit of a code of conduct, the four ASEAN states that have claims in the South China Sea – namely Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines and Vietnam – should also take additional steps together given their greater stake in the issue at hand. The main objective would be to thwart China’s efforts to divide the ASEAN claimants (most clearly by isolating the Philippines) by banding together in spite of certain differences in their positions. Greater coordination looks more promising now than it did in the past, with the recent hardening of Malaysia’s stance along with the birth of the ASEAN Claimants Working Group Meeting held in the Philippines last month. Additionally, external actors beyond just the United States, including the European Union and Australia, need to do their part by speaking out against Chinese transgressions to raise the cost of noncompliance. A rules-based approach to resolving the disputes ought to be a shared global interest, and a greater coalition explicitly calling for this will help increase the pressure on Beijing without it being framed as just a U.S.-China issue.

Even if a code of conduct does come to pass, it will at best be a diplomatic tool to manage tensions in the South China Sea. The sustainable path to actually resolving them lies in the legal realm, with all parties codifying their claims in line with international law which could then open the door to shelving sovereignty disputes and initiating joint resource development. The burden here rests largely with China, whose deliberate ambiguity on the basis for its indefensible nine-dash-line claim submitted to the United Nations in 2009, which covers up to 90 percent of the entire South China Sea, is inconsistent with the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) by any stretch of the imagination.

However, Southeast Asian states and the international community have roles to play as well. ASEAN countries should continue challenging China’s nine-dash line claim in legal circles to expose its egregiousness, as the Philippines is now doing via the International Tribunal of the Law of the Sea (ITLOS). To add weight to such initiatives in the Chinese mind, other ASEAN members and external actors should support them either through direct participation or strong public statements, which can be done carefully without explicitly taking sides on sovereignty questions. Finally, the four ASEAN claimant states should also continue to codify the specifics of their own claims in multilateral fora as well as domestic legislation. Greater clarity among ASEAN claimants could both reveal greater congruence in certain areas as well as further expose Beijing’s deliberate ambiguity.

But ASEAN countries and their external partners should not just continue to hope that their efforts will change China’s ambivalence on the code of conduct or its blatant disregard for international law in the South China Sea. They also need to think critically about how to manage tensions if Beijing’s assertiveness continues unabated or grows over time and spills over into other issue areas as well. While the specific decisions eventually made will depend on each individual country, in general ASEAN claimants and other willing Southeast Asian and external states should prioritize increasing coordination, cooperation and crisis management at the domestic, regional and international levels in three specific ways.

First, ASEAN claimants need to redouble efforts to foster greater coordination between the various military and civilian government agencies considered maritime stakeholders. This is crucial not only to promote interagency cooperation in the complex domain of maritime security that touches several areas from fisheries to immigration, but to formulate an integrated approach to rival China’s adroit strategy of using a variety of nonmilitary instruments to enforce its claims in a calibrated way, including coast-guard vessels. Efforts by the Philippines and Brunei to establish national coast-surveillance programs are a useful step, as are more collective endeavors like a seminar on interagency coordination held in October 2013 between Vietnam the United States.

Greater integration at the national level should also be supplemented by more cooperation at the regional and global realms to at least mitigate the asymmetry in capabilities between China and individual ASEAN states. This is particularly necessary with respect to crisis-management mechanisms and scenario-planning. For instance, bilateral-security hotlines can be one useful instrument in managing crises if they are properly resourced, structured and utilized. While discussions have already begun at the regional level, they will likely take time to advance and this should not prevent countries from establishing security hotlines on a bilateral basis, as Malaysia and the Philippines are now reportedly considering.

ASEAN claimant states should also intensify contingency planning related to the South China Sea both nationally and in concert with relevant partners. Broader initiatives are already underway with several countries, including further acquisitions and coast guard cooperation with Japan and increased maritime security cooperation with the United States. But additional focus should be placed on planning for specific crisis scenarios ranging from rogue fishermen who may provoke an unintended bilateral crisis all the way up to potential Chinese economic coercion or blockades. These plans ought to reflect the sophistication of China’s strategy in the South China Sea in terms of the various instruments used and the different levels of military and non-military coercion employed. They should also incorporate current Chinese thinking. For example, one China expert recently told a conference at the Center for New American Security that China is working on a concept called ‘extended coercive diplomacy’ focused on how to coerce an adversary that is aligned with a great power, with U.S. allies Japan and the Philippines being case studies.

Critics will claim that elements of this overall strategy make little sense because it is too risky for weaker ASEAN states to antagonize a much more capable China. But the evidence suggests that is precisely what China is banking on – that the glaring asymmetry in capabilities, coupled with its rising regional influence, will make ASEAN states think twice before risking rupture in relations as long as Beijing’s assertiveness is calibrated to both divide various claimants and avoid drawing in other external players. It is up to Southeast Asian states and other interested actors like the United States and Japan to now think critically about how to counter the full spectrum of Chinese assertiveness proportionately and to do what is necessary make clear what their red lines are. Because in getting Beijing to commit to a peaceful, lawful resolution on the South China Sea disputes, to paraphrase Winston Churchill, it is not enough that all parties do their best; but that they do what is required.

_Prashanth Parameswaran is a PhD candidate at the Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy, Tufts University and a Pacific Forum CSIS non-resident fellow now based in Washington, D.C. He has previously worked on Southeast Asia at several think tanks including the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS). You can follow him on Twitter at __@TheAsianist__.

Countering China in the South China Sea_


----------



## sincity

China already lay their claim in SCS, China won't retract their claim unless there will be an actual war to determine the rightful owner of the area. SCS will always remain in Asia, those island and surrounding sea still be right where there even the end of the war in the future. Either cooperate and jointly explore the resource or the dispute will never be settle. War won't solve the dispute, diplomacy won't solve the dispute, only solution share resource with each other in SCS.


----------



## Genesis

This guy is a PHD candidate? Has he ever talked to a third person? Even personal friendships don't last, much less those between country.

This person thinks all of ASEAN is against China, sure, but they each got their own agenda and it doesn't align.






This is the map of current claimant, you think they will work it out? If they give in to China at least they can say they lost to a bully and a bigger power. What's the president of Philippines and Vietnam going to say? That they gave up to a lesser power?

In theory they could all retract their claims, but in reality they won't.


This is why China's not worried, not just the claims, but China is a major economic investment country, third overall and will increase. They want Chinese money, then Chinese manufactures will go to another country and all these are developing countries, one carrot and one of them will fall in line and completely defeat the coalition. IF they even get it on the ground which they won't.


In the international arena, China is a major player, if European nations are doing nothing on Crimea which is an EU interest, they definitely won't do anything for something so far away.

America cannot risk war over what they think are essentially rocks, and no way a president can spin it in a way that makes it popular.

UN, that's our battle ground and Russia still needs China for years to come and they won't do anything to antagonize us, not for Vietnam, Philippines anyways.


ASEAN is not a rock, they are themselves neighbors and competitors, who's going to take the bullet for the team?

Even if somehow they work it out, the actual execution is impossible and somewhere there's going to be tension, as their always has been in alliances of the past, between more or less equals and some who think they are superior.

let's ask some Vietnamese members if they would sacrifice for Philippines, giving ground on sea and economic opportunities including investments and such, essentially antagonize China for no gain, or even maintenance of status quo.


@Viet @BoQ77 @Viva_Viet @ViXuyen


----------



## Viva_Viet

Genesis said:


> ASEAN is not a rock, they are themselves neighbors and competitors, who's going to take the bullet for the team?
> 
> Even if somehow they work it out, the actual execution is impossible and somewhere there's going to be tension, as their always has been in alliances of the past, between more or less equals and some who think they are superior.
> 
> let's ask some Vietnamese members if they would sacrifice for Philippines, giving ground on sea and economic opportunities including investments and such, essentially antagonize China for no gain, or even maintenance of status quo.


True, ASEAN is not a rock, but we will unite Sub-Mekong region to get bigger and stronger . Laos-Camb r under our control now, the next will be Thailand. We can conquer Thai within 1 month as long as USA refuse to sanction us like in 1979


----------



## sincity

Viva_Viet said:


> True, ASEAN is not a rock, but we will unite Sub-Mekong region to get bigger and stronger . Laos-Camb r under our control now, the next will be Thailand. We can conquer Thai within 1 month as long as USA refuse to sanction us like in 1979


 

Viet Nam used antique weapons to conquer Cambodia, Lao, and Thai Land? Viet Nam consider a 3rd world nation, how the heck Viet Nam have the money and military to attack any nation.


----------



## Viva_Viet

sincity said:


> Viet Nam used antique weapons to conquer Cambodia, Lao, and Thai Land? Viet Nam consider a 3rd world nation, how the heck Viet Nam have the money and military to attack any nation.


Our sapper only need knife and grenades to kill ur troops and destroyed ur 10 million $ in 1984 without being detected, did u forget that ??



> Vietnam dare to attack our military agents: high-level military evaded
> 
> admin on January 20, 2011 in Military World | No Comments »
> April 1984, the border of Yunnan army recaptured the old Hill, who rode Thread Yin and other positions, start into the defense.
> 
> The local terrain, high and low drop large, so the Vietnamese troops to use firearms is the most important mortar. Vietnamese troops often use the terrain to create false targets, false launch point, induce a waste of our army shells. So our military reported the destruction of the mortar has more than the number of enemy equipment, but the enemy continued to fire the army.
> 
> Our military personnel are often sent to bring artillery reconnaissance and observation equipment into an enemy communications behind the right direction for my cannon group goals, and achieved some results, but the artillery reconnaissance personnel at great risk. After our troops from the United Kingdom [Germany] *imports a "Xin Bolin" emplacement detection radar (current price for ten million dollars) *to deploy to the front.
> 
> "Xin Bolin" (Cymbeline) since the 20th century, mid 70s in the UK and German armies, the detection of 81 mm mortar range of up to 10 kilometers, on a detection range of 120-mm mortar up to 14 km . By detecting enemy mortar and to calculate the trajectory, we can accurately determine the location of the enemy mortar position to lead our army artillery to counter and hit the Vietnamese troops was very embarrassed.
> .............
> 
> Evening of 4 July 1984 23 am, the Vietnamese troops of 406 battalion 821 Secret Mission 7 with a row of elevation points from the 1134 side saddle sneaked into my territory and then, point by point to observation point by point the way forward on the road before dawn on the 5th to the scheduled meeting place - a cave hidden white pyroxenite. 5, hostile white Shiyan, various positions in a close observation of the arrival day and night. At 0:30 on the 6th or so, in addition to a group of white remain as alert and take place inside the cave, Shiyan task, I compiled four group secret enemy approach the target area, were a group of 160 mortar attack on army positions and 41 Teachers 122 Group 9 with three rows. The other two groups from the left-right attack on Kunming Military Region I (now incorporated into the Chengdu Military Region) artillery battalion reconnaissance apparatus, "Xin Bolin" radar position.* 2:30, the enemy opened fire at the same time, 2:40 end of the operation, I killed 10 people and injured 49 people, the enemy killed 1 person and injured 10 people.*
> ..............
> The fighting, the military high evaded. *Deng position: their agents can come in, why can not our scouts in the past?* Thus, there is a more than five years on a secret reconnaissance round of fighting.
> After the completion of the enemy attack, the attack group retreated to the white line along the original cave, Shiyan, slight casualties treated on the same day before 6 pm outside the original infiltration routes withdrawn.
> Vietnam acknowledged Chinese sovereignty over South China Sea in 1958 | Page 6


Link in Chinese
越南特工竟敢偷袭我军：军方高层大为震怒！

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## vtnsx

sincity said:


> Viet Nam used antique weapons to conquer Cambodia, Lao, and Thai Land? Viet Nam consider a 3rd world nation, how the heck Viet Nam have the money and military to attack any nation.



You see, this is where American people fail to see because your arrogance blinds you.


----------



## sincity

Viva_Viet said:


> Our sapper only need knife and grenades to kill ur troops and destroyed ur 10 million $ in 1984 without being detected, did u forget that ??
> 
> 
> Link in Chinese
> 越南特工竟敢偷袭我军：军方高层大为震怒！


 

WTF are you talking about



vtnsx said:


> You see, this is where American people fail to see because your arrogance blinds you.


 

Viet Nam still a 3rd world, don't dream of conquer other when your people still starving.


----------



## vtnsx

sincity said:


> WTF are you talking about
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Viet Nam still a 3rd world, don't dream of conquer other when your people still starving.



Dude, look at USA. You're in greater debt than Vietnam. Your GDP means nothing when you have much more debt to pay. Vietnam doesn't run into that problem. USA is growing at 2.8% while Vietnam is growing at 5.2%. More debt means you're closer to serious economic meltdown. Keep wasting all your resources and your equipment become garbage for the next 20 years. Unless USA holds all trade to China then they could do much better. China is a blood sucker and its killing you slowly.


----------



## bolo

sincity said:


> WTF are you talking about
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Viet Nam still a 3rd world, don't dream of conquer other when your people still starving.


You don't know? Watch out for sappers, Vietnamese super soldiers.


----------



## sincity

vtnsx said:


> Dude, look at USA. You're in greater debt than Vietnam. Your GDP means nothing when you have much more debt to pay. Vietnam doesn't run into that problem. USA is growing at 2.8% while Vietnam is growing at 5.2%. More debt means you're closer to serious economic meltdown. Keep wasting all your resources and your equipment become garbage for the next 20 years. Unless USA holds all trade to China then they could do much better. China is a blood sucker and its killing you slowly.


 


You shouldn't be worry about US debt crisis, your Japan sugar Daddy still to take order from the US government.


----------



## vtnsx

sincity said:


> You shouldn't be worry about US debt crisis, your Japan sugar Daddy still to take order from the US government.



LOL, who says I'm worry? I'm actually trying to help them increase more debt and make you pay for it. Truth hurts doesn't it? I feel ya. Don't worry, you're used to someone stomping your head that's why you don't feel it.

Got better things to say American prick? Exactly, sit down like a good citizen you are.


----------



## NiceGuy

DHC-6 fly to Big spratly island and supply food to people 





Thủy phi cơ DHC-6 tại đường băng sân bay Trường Sa. 




Quân dân Trường Sa tập trung tại cột mốc chủ quyền đón thủy phi cơ DHC-6 chở đoàn công tác thăm Trường Sa.




Quân dân Trường Sa đón thủy phi cơ DHC-6 thăm Trường Sa.




Thiếu tướng Lê Minh Thành, Phó tư lệnh Hải quân thăm hỏi các hộ dân thị trấn Trường Sa.




Toàn cảnh đảo Trường Sa lớn nhìn từ DHC-6.




Các cháu nhỏ thị trấn Trường Sa lên thăm thủy phi cơ DHC-6.




Chỉ huy Phi đội DHC-6 tặng qùa quân dân Trường Sa.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Soryu

Genesis said:


> This guy is a PHD candidate? Has he ever talked to a third person? Even personal friendships don't last, much less those between country.
> 
> This person thinks all of ASEAN is against China, sure, but they each got their own agenda and it doesn't align.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Viet @BoQ77 @Viva_Viet @ViXuyen


Where're you get this map ?
I guess we're just have another bullsh*t propaganda from China again: "hey, look at Vietnamese, they're also greedy as us ..."

Vietnamese side just claim about Vietnamese's EEZ and Paracel & Spratly Islands, no more.

Chinese claim their 9 dash line, but they can't explain to the World: What the hell is those 9 dash line !?


----------



## Genesis

Soryu said:


> Where're you get this map ?
> I guess we're just have another bullsh*t propaganda from China again: "hey, look at Vietnamese, they're also greedy as us ..."
> 
> Vietnamese side just claim about Vietnamese's EEZ and Paracel & Spratly Islands, no more.
> 
> Chinese claim their 9 dash line, but they can't explain to the World: What the hell is those 9 dash line !?



First of all it's from voice of America. If you don't know what that is, check it out. Unless US feds are the propaganda wing of China, you don't really know what Vietnam's claims are.

Second, you are the same red plague, that we are. As if Vietnam is short on propaganda, or anywhere in the world. You are not a democracy. Get real dude. You are a third world country with a per capita not much higher than Congo, a war torn hell on earth. 

Third, we are a world power, we don't explain shit to minor nations. Did America explain why they raped Iraq or Afgan? But you wouldn't know anything about that now or ever. This is the classic crap don't roll up hill.


----------



## Viet

Genesis said:


> First of all it's from voice of America. If you don't know what that is, check it out. Unless US feds are the propaganda wing of China, you don't really know what Vietnam's claims are.
> 
> Second, you are the same red plague, that we are. As if Vietnam is short on propaganda, or anywhere in the world. You are not a democracy. Get real dude. *You are a third world country with a per capita not much higher than Congo, a war torn hell on earth.*
> 
> Third, we are a world power, we don't explain shit to minor nations. Did America explain why they raped Iraq or Afgan? But you wouldn't know anything about that now or ever. This is the classic crap don't roll up hill.


you are right. Vietnam is as poor as Congo. That is sad 

China as a rich nation and coming supowerpower should help Vietnam to escape poverty. We need more Lebensraum and resources. You should support the re-establing of Indochina. Burma and Thailand can join the club later. All under Vietnam control 

You have money, you don´t need friends.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Soryu

Genesis said:


> First of all it's from voice of America. If you don't know what that is, check it out. Unless US feds are the propaganda wing of China, you don't really know what Vietnam's claims are.
> 
> Second, you are the same red plague, that we are. As if Vietnam is short on propaganda, or anywhere in the world. You are not a democracy. Get real dude. You are a third world country with a per capita not much higher than Congo, a war torn hell on earth.
> 
> Third, we are a world power, we don't explain shit to minor nations. Did America explain why they raped Iraq or Afgan? But you wouldn't know anything about that now or ever. This is the classic crap don't roll up hill.


First of all, I don't know where you got that crap, so I asked you. Vietnamese Government's claim is so clear, just check it.

Second, only you are red plague, it's said by you, LOL. And this thread was about SCS, not about economy or anything else for you shout out your sh*t debate as alway, drag the thread from this to that.

Third, you're red plague, said by yourself, workshops, and still cheap labour for Western, with some people has extreme nationalist arrogant and has extreme environmental pollution.
Even US has their crap to explain to the world when they do something, but you can't, because all of your claim are bullsh*t greedy and fantasy about how mighty you're.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

genesis and others are obsessed with GDP number. In reality the majority of Chinese are dirty poor, just they haven´t noticed it.
Even the bankrupt Greece with GDP per capita $22,000 is much richer than wannbe bully Chinese.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Genesis

Soryu said:


> First of all, I don't know where you got that crap, so I asked you. Vietnamese Government's claim is so clear, just check it.
> 
> Second, only you are red plague, it's said by you, LOL. And this thread was about SCS, not about economy or anything else for you shout out your sh*t debate as alway, drag the thread from this to that.
> 
> Third, you're red plague, said by yourself, workshops, and still cheap labour for Western, with some people has extreme nationalist arrogant and has extreme environmental pollution.
> Even US has their crap to explain to the world when they do something, but you can't, because all of your claim are bullsh*t greedy and fantasy about how mighty you're.



I did check it, on the official mouth piece of the American Feds, the Americans provided the claims Vietnam is making, if it's so clear, then America must have it right.

I said red plague, but Americans said a good Vietnamese is a dead Vietnamese. Not dragging nothing from this debate.

Better dead than red, comrad.

If you don't want to talk economy fine, let's talk this issue, you can't do anything to us, so in effect, yea, we don't have to explain to you. You will find Saddam and Taliban are not complaining much these days on account of being dead.

American claim of WMDs are also bull, but it is what it is. This is the world we live in. Don't like it, leave.




Viet said:


> you are right. Vietnam is as poor as Congo. That is sad
> 
> China as a rich nation and coming supowerpower should help Vietnam to escape poverty. We need more Lebensraum and resources. You should support the re-establing of Indochina. Burma and Thailand can join the club later. All under Vietnam control
> 
> You have money, you don´t need friends.



Our friends have just became family. Europe has so many allies, cause their Rome is done. China is still going strong. We have not many friends, but we have 1.3 billion family.

Vietnam being the leader of ASEAN is fine, I support that, we have much more in common with you guys than any of the other ASEAN nations. Vietnam was an ancient imperial power and has massive Chinese influence in culture and what not, so you are at least a honorary east Asian nation, and that means you do have the ability to be a power.

You support our domination of the seas and we will support your domination of ASEAN.


So now the question is, do you want to continue fighting a losing battle? Or take the loss and then move on to other areas.

So in essence status quo? Or a leader of nations. Your choice.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

We will draw the ADIZ on the SCS when the first four Type 052D DDGs are ready.

So it will be no later than 2016.


----------



## NiceGuy

Viet said:


> you are right. Vietnam is as poor as Congo. That is sad
> 
> China as a rich nation and coming supowerpower should help Vietnam to escape poverty. We need more Lebensraum and resources. You should support the re-establing of Indochina. Burma and Thailand can join the club later. All under Vietnam control
> 
> You have money, you don´t need friends.


Yeah, comrade Putin annex Crime inspire VNese to occupy Thailand again like what we tried in 1979.

Greater sub-Mekong region under VN control- the dream soon will come true, this time we wont fail like in 1979 

Poor China will be pegged between 2 giants Soviet-sub-Mekong region again and have to go to US and beg for protection like 1979 soon

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## vtnsx

NiceGuy said:


> Yeah, comrade Putin annex Crime inspire VNese to occupy Thailand again like what we tried in 1979.
> 
> Greater sub-Mekong region under VN control- the dream soon will come true, this time we wont fail like in 1979
> 
> Poor China will be pegged between 2 giants Soviet-sub-Mekong region again and have to go to US and beg for protection like 1979 soon



no, they didn't beg for protection, they bend over to the American on their knees and offer free bj.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> We will draw the ADIZ on the SCS when the first four Type 052D DDGs are ready.
> 
> So it will be no later than *2016*.


why so late?

Vietnam will likely allow Mr Putin to have a military basis in Cam Ranh bay.
Expect to see Russian warships in the SC Sea!



Genesis said:


> Vietnam being *the leader of ASEAN i*s fine, I support that, we have much more in common with you guys than any of the other ASEAN nations. Vietnam was an ancient imperial power and has massive Chinese influence in culture and what not, so you are at least a honorary east Asian nation, and that means you do have the ability to be a power.
> 
> You support our domination of the seas and we will support your domination of ASEAN.
> 
> So now the question is, do you want to continue fighting a losing battle? Or take the loss and then move on to other areas.
> 
> So in essence status quo? Or a leader of nations. Your choice.


ha ha ha...you are willing to give Vietnam the role as leader of ASEAN?
what would your "friend" Indonesia say? I don´t think they are amused.

No, I think Vietnam should form a political 5-country union, consisting of Indochinese union (Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia) plus Thailand and Burma. In ancient times, those 4 countries paid tributes to Vietnamese imperial court.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## NiceGuy

Viet said:


> why so late?
> 
> Vietnam will likely allow Mr Putin to have a military basis in Cam Ranh bay.
> Expect to see Russian warships in the SC Sea!
> 
> .


Yeah, Sanction from US to Russia will boost VN trade with Russia specially in agricultural-garment products, in exchange we can buy modern weapons in cheaper price.Due to the sanction The huge amount of money from Russia stock market flowing to VN and make VN index go up like rocket.

Its time for VN to tie up the relationship with our big brother Russia and re-divide the World. *No one can stop Soviet-VN raise* .
Enjoy Soviet march

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Rechoice

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> We will draw the ADIZ on the SCS when the first four Type 052D DDGs are ready.
> 
> So it will be no later than 2016.



One more idiot nine dash ? idiot fantasia. Its mental ill.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Soryu

Genesis said:


> I did check it, on the official mouth piece of the American Feds, the Americans provided the claims Vietnam is making, if it's so clear, then America must have it right.
> 
> I said red plague, but Americans said a good Vietnamese is a dead Vietnamese. Not dragging nothing from this debate.
> 
> Better dead than red, comrad.
> 
> If you don't want to talk economy fine, let's talk this issue, you can't do anything to us, so in effect, yea, we don't have to explain to you. You will find Saddam and Taliban are not complaining much these days on account of being dead.
> 
> American claim of WMDs are also bull, but it is what it is. This is the world we live in. Don't like it, leave.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Our friends have just became family. Europe has so many allies, cause their Rome is done. China is still going strong. We have not many friends, but we have 1.3 billion family.
> 
> Vietnam being the leader of ASEAN is fine, I support that, we have much more in common with you guys than any of the other ASEAN nations. Vietnam was an ancient imperial power and has massive Chinese influence in culture and what not, so you are at least a honorary east Asian nation, and that means you do have the ability to be a power.
> 
> You support our domination of the seas and we will support your domination of ASEAN.
> 
> 
> So now the question is, do you want to continue fighting a losing battle? Or take the loss and then move on to other areas.
> 
> So in essence status quo? Or a leader of nations. Your choice.


You can dreaming all crap that you have, we have our way to deal with this world.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

did you hear that USA consider nine-dashed-line as meaningless thing ?
they also think the same all over the world.

only some ( maybe brainwashed ) guys keep crying for undeniable territory of China inside nine-dashed-line.

they did not hear anything from outside, did they ?


----------



## Genesis

BoQ77 said:


> did you hear that USA consider nine-dashed-line as meaningless thing ?
> they also think the same all over the world.
> 
> only some ( maybe brainwashed ) guys keep crying for undeniable territory of China inside nine-dashed-line.
> 
> they did not hear anything from outside, did they ?



We don't care, Americans didn't care when the world opposed operation Iraqi freedom, Russia don't care on Crimea and we don't care now. That's the benefit of a great power. But you wouldn't know nothing about that now would you....

Our ships, mostly coastguard will continue to push our claim closer to our borders, and naval ships further from our shores. 

If you got a problem, make a move, but you won't. 

Before somebody goes to say we make a move first, we have, coast guard and navy together to pressing the claim is the move, it has gotten us a few islands already and stopped illegal fishing from foreign countries already within quite a bit of sea.

These activities will increase in intensity as more and more powerful naval ships are made and inducted.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NiceGuy

Genesis said:


> We don't care, Americans didn't care when the world opposed operation Iraqi freedom, Russia don't care on Crimea and we don't care now. That's the benefit of a great power. But you wouldn't know nothing about that now would you....
> 
> Our ships, mostly coastguard will continue to push our claim closer to our borders, and naval ships further from our shores.
> 
> If you got a problem, make a move, but you won't.
> 
> Before somebody goes to say we make a move first, we have, coast guard and navy together to pressing the claim is the move, it has gotten us a few islands already and stopped illegal fishing from foreign countries already within quite a bit of sea.
> 
> These activities will increase in intensity as more and more powerful naval ships are made and inducted.


U dont care, then show to us that ur warships have the guts to test our anti-ship missile.Dont just use cheap surveiliance ships moving around. I'm sure ur useless navy will hit the sea bed in few minutes 

Dont forget VN control the largest part of Spratly , and our claim is almost as big as ur

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

CCG 2115 commissioned

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## southeastasiansea

On the 26th year commemoration of the Chinese occupation by force in 1988 the Johnson Reef in the Spratly Islands under Vietnam’s administration, International Communication Center would like to introduce the interview with Professor Ahn Kyong Hwan, Director of the International Relations Institute of the Chosun University, Korea.

*INTERVIEW PRO.DR. AHN KYONG HWAN ON THE 1988 JOHNSON REEF CLASH *

_Rpt: It has been 26 years since the 1988 skirmish at Johnson Reef of Vietnam broke out. As a scholar doing research on Vietnam for years, can you share your viewpoint on this sea battle?_

The workshop on sovereignty disputes in the Southeast Asian sea and Korean sea was hold on Octorber 23, 2012 at the Language Education Institute of the Chosun University, Gwangju city, Korea, being the first scientific seminar in Korea about Spratly and Paracel Archipelagos of Vietnam. Workshop’s attendants include profound scholars in Asian studies, history and maritime laws from Chosun University, Korean Institute of Northeast Asian studies, Korean Dokdo Research Institute, Institute of Southeast Asian studies, National University of Vietnam. With regards to the 1988 Johnson Reef skirmish, Vietnamese would not forget the history, and they need to firmly safeguard their national sovereignty. China must stop actions that breach international laws and regulations.

_Rpt: From perspective of an advocate of resolving the Southeast Asian sea disputes through peaceful negotiations in accordance with international laws, particularly the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), how do you assess Chinese use of force in the Johnson Reef in 1988?_

I am not surprised by China’s use of force in the 1988 Johnson Reef event. China obviously ignored the UNCLOS. I insist that disputes in the Southeast Asian sea should be resolved in accordance with international laws, especially the 1982 UNCLOS.

_Rpt: In early 2014, international community are deeply concerned about China’s calculations and audacious actions in the Southeast Asian sea. Do you think those actions of China are signals of possible clashes like the Spratly skirmish in 1988?_

Chinese provocations in regional sea over the past time are dangerous but would not signal a confrontation like the Johnson Reef event. The broader significance lies in the will of Chinese leaders to maintain peace and stability in the region.

_Rpt: Which attitudes and actions should China adopt towards ASEAN’s ongoing efforts to build the Code of Conducts (COC) in the Southeast Asian sea? _

Casting back to history, we can assume that what China always concerns the most is its national interests. I hope that in the near future, China will be more responsible to the maintenance of regional peace, respecting international laws and the 1982 UNCLOS.

_Rpt: Given Vietnam’s geological proximity and a history full of ups and downs with China, what Vietnam can do to secure its marine sovereignty while enhancing peaceful partnership with China? _

That is a tough question. Korea is also in close proximity to China, and also has an uneasy history with China. Korea has been trying to solve the disputes with China through peaceful negotiations on the basis of international laws. I think Vietnam should hold more conferences on Vietnam’s Spratly and Paracel Archipelagos at home and abroad.


----------



## Krueger

March 27, 2014






*BEIJING, March 26 -- Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong Lei on Wednesday urged the Philippines to stop wrongdoing on the South China Sea dispute.*

According to media reports, the Philippines will formally submit the dispute to the international court of justice in the coming days.

Hong told a routine press briefing that China will neither accept the unilateral action ofthe Philippines nor be present in the international arbitration.

*China's stance is in line with the international law, he said.*

Hong urged the Philippines to be fully aware of the complexity and sensitivity of the SouthChina Sea dispute and come back to the right track of negotiations and consultations assoon as possible so as to avoid further harming bilateral relations.

China's determination to safeguard sovereignty and territorial integrity is unswerving, thespokesman added.

（Editor：SunZhao、Yao Chun）

China slams Philippines' South China Sea court application - People's Daily Online


----------



## Jlaw

southeastasiansea said:


> "With regards to the 1988 Johnson Reef skirmish, Vietnamese would not forget the history, and they need to firmly safeguard their national sovereignty. China must stop actions that breach international laws and regulations"
> .


 
The answer to the first question already show *AHN KYONG HWAN's *bias stance. South Koreans, on a consensus basis do not like Chinese people.


----------



## Rechoice

Islands belong to Vietnam following our history evidence and rules of international laws. Nguyen Dynasty of Vietnam controlled Islands many hundred years ago without troubles with China.

China claimed recently and occupied our Island with force. Its illegal actions.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

Thanks Viet+ for the photo.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## hurt

Rechoice said:


> Thanks Viet+ for the photo.


----------



## Rechoice

hurt said:


>

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ManilaBoy45

Philippines Supply Ship Evades Chinese Blockade

Philippine supply ship evades Chinese blockade - The Denver Post

By JIM GOMEZ Associated Press
Posted: 03/29/2014 03:00:55 AM MDT | Updated: about 14 hours ago

SECOND THOMAS SHOAL—A Philippine government ship slipped past a Chinese coast guard blockade Saturday and brought food and fresh troops to a marooned navy ship used as a base by Filipino troops to bolster the country's territorial claims in the disputed South China Sea.The incident was witnessed by journalists who were invited by the Philippines military to accompany the resupply mission.It was a rare close-up look at the tensions in the waters and the determination of both sides to press their claims. China's growing assertiveness is alarming smaller nations that have competing territorial claims and worrying the United States, which is neutral in the disputes but jockeying for influence with Beijing in the region.

Around one hour away from Second Thomas Shoal, where the detachment is based, a Chinese coast guard ship marked "1141" twice crossed the bow of the smaller Philippine vessel in an attempt to stop it from proceeding. Another tailed the Filipino boat.The Chinese radioed the Filipinos, telling them to stop. "You will take full responsibility for the consequences of your action," the voice said in English."This is the Republic of the Philippines," Philippine navy Lt. Ferdinand Gato, who was in charge of the supply mission, replied. "We are here to provision the troops."The marines on board the supply boat waved the "V" for peace sign toward the Chinese vessel. The Filipino captain maneuvered his vessel to shallow waters where the Chinese ships couldn't sail to reach the marooned vessel, BRP Sierra Madre, which has become an awkward symbol of Philippine sovereignty in the remote offshore territory.

The cat-and-mouse-like confrontation was witnessed by Associated Press journalists and more than a dozen other media members who were allowed by the Philippine military to board the government vessel to show what the Manila government has said was "China's bullying" in the disputed waters.As they approached the shoal, one of the marines raised the Philippine flag on the supply ship. Once inside the shoal, the marines and the crew applauded and exchanged high-fives. Journalists said a plane with U.S. Navy markings also flew above the marooned ship."Our policy is maximum tolerance," Gato said. "I will not let them stop us because our marines will starve."The supply ship carried about 10 tons of food, including rice and canned goods, and water, Gato said. The provisions were placed in sacks and transferred to the marooned ship using ropes pulled with pulleys. The two vessels were surrounded by the calm turquoise waters of the shoal under the blazing sun.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

“XiangYangHong 10”，4500 tonnes，electric propulsion and all that。。。


----------



## Srinivas

Every time China urges the small Island Nations to follow its rules ....... people are getting the feeling that Chinese spokes person is sharing his humor.

The map according to UNCLOS is very clear and there is no ambiguity in this, is it that chinese want to make the situation complicated ??



Krueger said:


> March 27, 2014
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BEIJING, March 26 -- Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong Lei on Wednesday urged the Philippines to stop wrongdoing on the South China Sea dispute.*
> 
> According to media reports, the Philippines will formally submit the dispute to the international court of justice in the coming days.
> 
> Hong told a routine press briefing that China will neither accept the unilateral action ofthe Philippines nor be present in the international arbitration.
> 
> *China's stance is in line with the international law, he said.*
> 
> Hong urged the Philippines to be fully aware of the complexity and sensitivity of the SouthChina Sea dispute and come back to the right track of negotiations and consultations assoon as possible so as to avoid further harming bilateral relations.
> 
> China's determination to safeguard sovereignty and territorial integrity is unswerving, thespokesman added.
> 
> （Editor：SunZhao、Yao Chun）
> 
> China slams Philippines' South China Sea court application - People's Daily Online

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

Srinivas said:


> Every time China urges the small Island Nations to follow its rules ....... Some people are getting the feeling that Chinese spokes person is sharing his humor.
> 
> The map according to UNCLOS is very clear and there is no ambiguity in this, is it that chinese want to make the situation complicated ??


...because Chinese is the best comedian on stage

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## +4vsgorillas-Apebane

bolo said:


> all they have to do is cut the attachment to the anchor



I dont think that rust bucket is actually floating. The water there is shallow so its embedded into the sea floor. China should consider running aground a larger vessel.


----------



## Solomon2

*

 Asia*
31 March 2014 Last updated at 00:08 ET

*Philippines files case to UN in South China Sea dispute*





Philippine Foreign Secretary Albert del Rosario said the aim was to seek a "just and durable" solution

The Philippines has submitted evidence to a UN tribunal hearing its case against China's territorial claims in the South China Sea.

Both sides have overlapping claims in the sea, leading to severe tensions.

China has refused to take part in the arbitration and warned that the case will damage bilateral ties.

The latest move comes a day after a Philippine ship evaded Chinese vessels to bring supplies to troops stationed on a disputed shoal.

China claims a U-shaped swathe of the South China Sea - creating multiple overlaps with areas claimed by the Philippines, Vietnam, Brunei, Malaysia and Taiwan.

The Philippines says that China's claims are illegal under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea.

In January, the Philippines asked the UN's Permanent Court of Arbitration to consider its case. It is thought that the court may not reach a decision before the end of 2015.

'Damage to relations'
Speaking to reporters on Sunday, Philippine Foreign Secretary Albert del Rosario said that more than 40 maps and "nearly 4,000 pages" of evidence had been submitted to the tribunal.

"It is about defending what is legitimately ours... it is about guaranteeing freedom of navigation for all nations," he said, adding that it would help "preserve regional peace, security and stability".

Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong Lei said last week that China would not accept the arbitration, and that the Philippines should "stop going any further down the wrong track so as to avoid further damage to bilateral relations".

China was "committed to managing and resolving relevant issues... through dialogue and consultation," he added.





A Philippine Navy ship has been grounded on the Second Thomas Shoal since 1999

On Saturday, a Philippine government ship slipped past Chinese coast guard vessels to reach the disputed Second Thomas Shoal, known as Ayungin in Manila and Ren'ai Reef in Beijing.

Philippine troops are stationed on a beached, rusting military ship that analysts say has become a symbol of the country marking its territory.

On 9 March, China prevented two Philippine vessels from reaching the shoal. Philippine officials said the ships carried supplies for the troops on the shoal, but China said the ships carried construction supplies.

Following the incident, Philippine planes air dropped supplies onto the shoal.


----------



## Zero_wing

Good we have now fast small craft to by pass your imperial blocade


----------



## Zero_wing

A big step aganist an arrogant stupid country

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cnleio

Zero_wing said:


> A big step aganist an arrogant stupid country


LUCKY~ China is not Russia, or a big step for BeiJing. 

UN? China vote to deny it on P5 conference.


----------



## cnleio




----------



## xunzi

Who care. We are not require to participate.


----------



## tranquilium

Yeah, let me know how it would be different from the last dozens of times.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## StarCraft_ZT

How to describe the foreseeable China's action to Philippines? 杀鸡儆猴

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

Philippine do good job to counter claim of State of sea pirates.


----------



## shuttler

*The Republic of the Philippines v. The People’s Republic of China*


On 22 January 2013, the Republic of the Philippines instituted arbitral proceedings against the People’s Republic of China under Annex VII to the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (the “Convention”), “with respect to the dispute with China over the maritime jurisdiction of the Philippines in the West Philippine Sea.” On 19 February 2013, China presented a Note Verbale to the Philippines in which it described “the Position of China on the South China Sea issues,” and rejected and returned the Philippines’ Notification. The Permanent Court of Arbitration acts as Registry in this arbitration. 

*Arbitral Tribunal* 

The members of the Arbitral Tribunal are:
Judge Thomas A. Mensah (President) 
Judge Jean-Pierre Cot 
Judge Stanislaw Pawlak 
Professor Alfred H. Soons 
Judge Rüdiger Wolfrum
*
Party Representatives* 

The Philippines is represented by: 
_Agent_ 
Solicitor General Francis H. Jardeleza 
Office of the Solicitor General, Makati, Republic of the Philippines 

_Counsel_ 
*Paul S. Reichler 
Lawrence H. Martin 
Foley Hoag LLP, Washington DC, United States of America 

Professor Bernard H. Oxman 
University of Miami School of Law, Miami, United States of America 

Professor Philippe Sands QC 
Matrix Chambers, London, United Kingdom 

Professor Alan Boyle 
Essex Court Chambers, London, United Kingdom*



China has not appointed an agent. In a Note Verbale to the PCA on 1 August 2013, *China reiterated “its position that it does not accept the arbitration initiated by the Philippines.”*

The Republic of the Philippines v. The People's Republic of China​

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TheTruth

lol a bunch of white terrorists representing the Philippines, as usual


----------



## Krueger

03/31/2014

"To file, or not to file" this was the crucial question, which Filipino policy-makers have been wrestling with for months, as Manila pondered challenging China's sweeping territorial claims in the South China Sea before a United Nations (UN) court at The Hague. On March 30, the Philippines was scheduled to file a memorandum -- or "memorial" in legal parlance -- to defend its case against China and formally commence an arbitration at the International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea (ITLOS) over the disputed maritime features.

This was by no means an easy choice.

On one hand, filing the case could mean permanent estrangement with China, the total collapse of bilateral ties, and the increased probability of economic sanctions as well as military confrontation in the South China Sea. Even if the Philippines wins the case, there would be no existing "enforcement mechanism" to ensure China respects the outcome of the arbitration. In fact, China has unequivocally expressed its refusal to subject any issue concerning, among other things, "territorial delimitation" to international arbitration. Given the vagueness of China's territorial claims, and their quite unprecedented historical basis, the arbitration panel at the ITLOS would face considerable challenge at arriving at a decisive, clear-cut decision.

At the same time, by pushing ahead with the arbitration, the Philippines could rally the international community behind its own cause, portraying China as a legal pariah. In spite of China's refusal to boycott the proceedings, the Philippines believes that the arbitration could still push through: Since China is party to the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), the Philippine government believes that Annex VII of UNCLOS accords ITLOS the jurisdiction to push ahead with the arbitration.

Witnessing Russia's international isolation over its annexation of Crimea, the Philippines seems to calculate that China could face a similar outcome over its increased territorial assertiveness in the Western Pacific, especially if it loses the arbitration case at The Hague. Moreover, the Philippines hopes that its own legal maneuver against China will encourage other like-minded countries such as Vietnam, Japan, and India, which happen to share comparable territorial disputes with Beijing, to file similar cases against China.

*Preemptive vs. Deterrent Diplomacy*

In early-2013, the Philippines initiated court proceeding at ITLOS, filing Notification and Statement of Claim against Beijing's notorious 9-dashline doctrine, which bestows China with quasi-legal "inherent" and "indisputable" sovereignty over the bulk of contested features in the Western Pacific. The aim was to (indirectly) reinforce Manila's claim to a number of features within its 200-nautical-miles Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ) by directly questioning the legality of China's historical claims in the South China Sea on the basis of international law, specifically the provisions of the UNCLOS.

The Philippines' mid-2013 decision to invite greater American military presence on its soil has surely irritated China, which views growing strategic cooperation between the U.S. and its Asian allies as a thinly-veiled containment strategy against Beijing. The Philippines' decision to file a legal complaint against China, however, has arguably been the greatest source of bilateral tensions, severely undermining channels of communication between Manila and Beijing.

No wonder, much of 2013 saw nothing but deterioration in bilateral ties, as China refused to dignify the Philippines' legal complaint at The Hague, condemned the Philippines' "internationalization" of a supposedly bilateral issue, and framed the whole maneuver as a great affront to its international image. For this reason, some questioned the political wisdom of the Philippines' decision to engage in a legal battle,since it encouraged Chinese hardliners to respond through more aggressive para-military patrols across the South China Sea. And an Air Defense Identification Zone (ADIZ) in the area, which would give Beijing quasi-legal basis to control the airspace above the contested features, could potentially follow this.

But to prevent further bilateral crisis, and potential international backlash over the arbitration case, the Chinese leadership reportedly offered the Philippines certain "carrots" in exchange for Manila's decision to postpone -- not drop -- the filing of the memorial. Aware that it would be too embarrassing and politically untenable for the Aquino administration to drop its much-publicized legal challenge against China, Beijing reportedly only sought a temporary pause in the arbitration case in order to create enough diplomatic space to restart bilateral negotiations over the disputes territories. To sweeten the deal, China reportedly considered mutual disengagement from contested features such as the Second Thomas Shoal, provision of trade and investment deals to the Philippines, and even the postponement of the prospective implementation of an Air Defense Identification Zone (ADIZ) in the South China Sea. This was an enticing offer, which forced the Aquino administration to convene a special cabinet meeting in late-January.

Eventually, however, the hardliners won the day, insisting that China could not be trusted, and that the pressure track is the only way to bring China to the negotiating table in good faith. On March 30, the Philippine filed a voluminous (4,000-page) 'memorial' to the ITLOS, with Filipino officials emphatically declaring their (self-proclaimed) righteous fight against China.

"With firm conviction, the ultimate purpose of the memorial is our national interest. It is about defending what is legitimately ours. It is about securing our children's future. It is about guaranteeing freedom of navigation for all nations," Philippine Foreign Secretary Albert del Rosario exclaimed during a highly-anticipated press conference on March 30. "It is about helping to preserve regional peace, security, and stability...about seeking not just any kind of resolution but a just and durable solution grounded on international law."

*The Gloves are off*

It must be noted that the prospective finalization of a new security pact between the Philippines and the U.S., most likely in the coming months, has also encouraged the Aquino administration to adopt a more confrontational approach towards China. The Obama administration's increasingly vocal commitment to its Mutual Defense Treaty (1951) with the Philippines as well as its (indirect) expressions of support for the Philippines' territorial claims has strengthened the hands of those, who have called for a more hawkish approach to China.

Sensing the inevitability of an arbitration case at The Hague, China has warned about the potential ramifications of the Philippines decision to legally challenge its territorial claims. And China has the capability to hurt the Philippines if push comes to shove.

During the recent National People's Congress (NPC), the Chinese leadershipannounced a further acceleration (from 10.7% to 12.2%) in the country's defense spending in 2014, officially standing at $131.56 billion. Most analysts believe that in nominal terms alone, the real figure could be twice the official announcement. Leaving no doubt as to the country's commitment to push ahead with its territorial claims, and overwhelm its neighbors in an event of a conflict, Premier Li Keqiangvowed that the Chinese leadership will "resolutely uphold China's maritime rights and interests, and build China into a maritime power."

Some analysts would argue that the Philippines' infrastructure is also vulnerable to a potential sabotage. For instance, the State Grid Corporation of China (SGCC) owns 40% of the National Grid Corporation of the Philippines (NGCP). In an event of conflict, China could very well sabotage the Philippines' already weak electricity infrastructure, undermining its tenuously booming economy. As the Philippines 3rd largest trading partner, China could also impose sanctions, similar to or more severe than the non-tariff barriers and travel restrictions it imposed on Manila amid the mid-2012 standoff over the Scarborough Shoal in the South China.

All of these could severely undermine the Aquino administration legacy, which is largely based on the Philippines' improved economic performance.

In recent weeks, the Chinese para-military forces have also placed Filipino troops stationed in the Second Thomas Shoal under effective siege. As a result, the Philippine government has been struggling to resupply its maritime forces in the contested feature, which lies dangerously close to the hydrocarbon-rich waters off the coast of southwestern Philippine island of Palawan. In effect, the Philippine leadership views China's maritime posturing as not only a threat to its territorial integrity, but also energy security and economic resources.

A sober analysis reveals how the Philippines has engaged in a very dangerous gamble against China. Nonetheless, much will depend on how the Philippines will transform the momentum generated by its latest legal maneuver into a political springboard to pressure China into the negotiating table. To prevent a wholesale reprisal by Beijing, the Philippines will have to aggressively convince other Asian countries, notably Vietnam, to file a similar case against China, while ensuring maximum strategic and security guarantees from the U.S. in an event of a conflict in the South China Sea.

After all, international relations is not a realm of law, but instead a battlefield shaped by "balance of power" politics -- and the wisdom of diplomats on the negotiating table.

Philippines Takes China to Court: End of Diplomacy in the South China Sea?


----------



## Genesis

Well, congratulations to the Philippines on completely missing the point. 

Let's say that the islands are given to the Philippines and let's say that we back off when this decision is arrived. 

Our navy is still there, our economy is still growing, our budget is still increasing, still the manufacturing power house we always been, still have one of the best infrastructures on earth, and we still got the most populous country and one of the most resource rich countries on earth.

So all the real power is still very much in our hands. Only reason we are not doing anything is because the Americans showed themselves to be warriors and a tough customer. We will bid our time, but times are a changing boys. Let's see you on the other side of the world order.


But you know what's funny, for a country that has their politicians take 100+ cars escort just to fill a form to run for governor, law doesn't seem like the rule of the land from what I'm seeing.

Watch it, this is seriously the most hilarious situation ever.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## xunzi

I have said before that we should cut diplomatic tie with the Phillipines. Now it looks like we will respond to this action by the Phillipines.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Zero_wing

Wow both the nationist and maoist imperial d bags here once again have nothing good to say expect from the typical trash talks well its expected from trash bin people. Mabuhay ng Republika!


----------



## Zero_wing

Ha typical chinese trying to misguilde will lies and strong arming the world public well this not your backyard so screw you tell if dont like us find the feeling is VERY mutual heck the only mutual thing we both have so make with usual threats and again screw you imperials up you @$Ses .

This far more better than war or _Bilateral (strong arm tactics) _negotiations You guys dont have any balls to back up your claims its not the Philippine Republic's Fault you did not get your way or you have no real evidence to support you illogical stupid claims so stop with the trash talks and take you your case and give your evidence if your really on the right because so far you and your stupid @$$ Government is just trash talking and making threats like your the only sources of trade and you chinamen here are just proving my point by adding more trash talk and typical racist rants trying to avoid the real questions to escape because in truth you have no real claims.



Genesis said:


> Well, congratulations to the Philippines on completely missing the point.
> 
> Let's say that the islands are given to the Philippines and let's say that we back off when this decision is arrived.
> 
> Our navy is still there, our economy is still growing, our budget is still increasing, still the manufacturing power house we always been, still have one of the best infrastructures on earth, and we still got the most populous country and one of the most resource rich countries on earth.
> 
> So all the real power is still very much in our hands. Only reason we are not doing anything is because the Americans showed themselves to be warriors and a tough customer. We will bid our time, but times are a changing boys. Let's see you on the other side of the world order.
> 
> But you know what's funny, for a country that has their politicians take 100+ cars escort just to fill a form to run for governor, law doesn't seem like the rule of the land from what I'm seeing.
> 
> Watch it, this is seriously the most hilarious situation ever.



Question does this have any relation to the topic? NO it does not! so again why can't you people face facts that your screwed morally and the only way out of this is to go to ITCLOS and show your evidence and submit to its ruling but again in a typical Imperial Maoist Imperials that you people are you and along with your stupid supports just dodge the question and trash talk or find unrelated topics to again dodge the questions typical just typical


----------



## Zero_wing

xunzi said:


> I have said before that we should cut diplomatic tie with the Phillipines. Now it looks like we will respond to this action by the Phillipines.



I welcome it chinamen junk is flooding my country's economy and its killing off industries here plus you people are source of drugs and illegal workersand other criminal activities along with your Nationalist conterparts, destorying filipino lives and and taking filipino jobs and lastly stealing our natural resources like what you people have done in Africa so i welcome that plus the Philippines has more investment in china than china has in the Philippines plus we have a lot of trade with America and Japan plus other which can easily fill whatever you backstabling jerks can so its not biggie for us sure it hurt but in the end its more benifical to us then to you so go on ahead and request that from your F up government.


----------



## +4vsgorillas-Apebane

Zero_wing said:


> Ha typical chinese trying to misguilde will lies and strong arming the world public well this not your backyard so screw you tell if dont like us find the feeling is VERY mutual heck the only mutual thing we both have so make with usual threats and again screw you imperials up you @$Ses .
> 
> This far more better than war or _Bilateral (strong arm tactics) _negotiations You guys dont have any balls to back up your claims its not the Philippine Republic's Fault you did not get your way or you have no real evidence to support you illogical stupid claims so stop with the trash talks and take you your case and give your evidence if your really on the right because so far you and your stupid @$$ Government is just trash talking and making threats like your the only sources of trade and you chinamen here are just proving my point by adding more trash talk and typical racist rants trying to avoid the real questions to escape because in truth you have no real claims.
> 
> 
> 
> Question does this have any relation to the topic? NO it does not! so again why can't you people face facts that your screwed morally and the only way out of this is to go to ITCLOS and show your evidence and submit to its ruling but again in a typical Imperial Maoist Imperials that you people are you and along with your stupid supports just dodge the question and trash talk or find unrelated topics to again dodge the questions typical just typical



You bring the ghetto to this thread, block after blocks of writing without full stops or punctuation of any kind.

The 9 dash line is the starting negotiation point, its up to the behavior of the Philippines to determine how much China will let you keep.


----------



## Viet

good move Pinoy! now Chinese can show their "historicial evidence" to the world.
but I´m afraid the Chinese are naked.


----------



## +4vsgorillas-Apebane

Viet said:


> good move Pinoy! now Chinese can show their "historicial evidence" to the world.
> but I´m afraid the Chinese are naked.



Big fish and little fish my friend. Small fish eat even smaller fish. 
Keep the conflict small and you can negotiate better terms or flail and thrash about and churn the waters bloody.


----------



## Zero_wing

+4vsgorillas-Apebane said:


> Big fish and little fish my friend. Small fish eat even smaller fish.
> Keep the conflict small and you can negotiate better terms or flail and thrash about and churn the waters bloody.



Ya if that was true why people still alive remember that 100 year humilation?



+4vsgorillas-Apebane said:


> You bring the ghetto to this thread, block after blocks of writing without full stops or punctuation of any kind.
> 
> The 9 dash line is the starting negotiation point, its up to the behavior of the Philippines to determine how much China will let you keep.



Or your country is just law deviant who just cant follow the rules who keeps everything balance? So it can take resources for its own selfish self?


----------



## +4vsgorillas-Apebane

Zero_wing said:


> Ya if that was true why people still alive remember that 100 year humilation?
> 
> 
> 
> Or your country is just law deviant who just cant follow the rules who keeps everything balance? So it can take resources for its own selfish self?



Chinese have long memories, generations pass but historical wrongs are remembered. Unlike the Philippines who dishonour the hundreds of thousands massacred in Manilla by forgiving the Japanese. Such fickle and weak people.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Filipino

Genesis said:


> But you know what's funny, for a country that has their politicians take 100+ cars escort just to fill a form to run for governor, law doesn't seem like the rule of the land from what I'm seeing.
> 
> Watch it, this is seriously the most hilarious situation ever.


the southern tip of the philippines is not really representative of the whole. that region contains 3.5% of our population. and the warlord who perpetrated the maguindanao massacre in 2009 was installed by a pro-chinese presidential administration. we voted in aquino to clean house, and that's exactly what he's done. the south is much safer now as well, thanks to the peace agreement that aquino engineered. why do you think we're externally focused now? it's because we have less trouble at home. to you chinese the 19th century was a lost century. to us filipinos we lost 1565 to 2010. it's good that china is on the rise. it's a shame we have to be on opposite sides

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## +4vsgorillas-Apebane

Zero_wing said:


> See evading the question i dont give a Cr@p about your sob stories taking my country's waters is no replacement beside so your just repeating a cycle that you guys yourselves have went under is basicly speaks volums of your people stupidity besides your twisted sense of history what made you people different from all the d bags of history? Beside we gave every invader a bloody noise and plus we face your kind countless times in the Battlefield before just ask your granddad who went to korea but ITCLOS is more better than a war.



To be honest, I dont even bother to read your incoherent babble and rants. No punctuation, breaks and poor vocabulary makes for extremely dreary reading.


----------



## terranMarine

+4vsgorillas-Apebane said:


> To be honest, I dont even bother to read your incoherent babble and rants. No punctuation, breaks and poor vocabulary makes for extremely dreary reading.



Almost everyone says the same, even the Vietcongs can write better English than this Macaca here. It's funny for him to say the Pinoys gave every invader a bloody nose, correct me if i'm wrong but his country was colonized by the Spanish, Americans and the Japs. I see the Vietcongs brainwashing propaganda has infected this Macaca.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Jlaw

xunzi said:


> I have said before that we should cut diplomatic tie with the Phillipines. Now it looks like we will respond to this action by the Phillipines.


 As another poster wrote, today's Chinese are not the same Chinese from days gone by. Today's Chinese are fake with very little substance. 
Case in point, a small third world country is toying with China. I do not see this happening to Russia or US. If it did, these countries would have taken measures to totally destroy their economy instead of temporarily stopping Philipines import of bananas.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## shuttler

the pinoys are raking in about USD 1 billion from their 150,000 maids working in HK
Work on this to strip a billion dollar off their economy

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## rott

shuttler said:


> the pinoys are raking in about USD 1 billion from their 150,000 maids working in HK
> Work on this to strip a billion dollar off their economy


Honestly, I wouldn't blame the people of Philippines, but just some ultra-nationalist in here, who thinks he/she can blow the whole world for a penny.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Raphael

I certainly hope it's the end of diplomacy. Cut diplomatic ties immediately, it's been embarrassing that all this time we've been trying to establish communications with monkeys that don't understand human speech, let alone the principles of international law.


----------



## Zero_wing

rott said:


> Speak English, Idiot!



Huh i was made your too stupid to see it get some glasses you arrogant d bag



rott said:


> Honestly, I wouldn't blame the people of Philippines, but just some ultra-nationalist in here, who thinks he/she can blow the whole world for a penny.



what's wrong? no real evidence to back up your claims too bad



Raphael said:


> I certainly hope it's the end of diplomacy. Cut diplomatic ties immediately, it's been embarrassing that all this time we've been trying to establish communications with monkeys that don't understand human speech, let alone the principles of international law.



Wow other chinaman racist F trat again arrogant @ fro brains it will be more benifical for the Philippines we have alot of trading partners and china can just find other country to explot arrogant d bag



shuttler said:


> the pinoys are raking in about USD 1 billion from their 150,000 maids working in HK
> Work on this to strip a billion dollar off their economy



Wow other moron with no brains he thinks thats the sorce of Philippine economy hahahaha the chinamen are really stupid

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Srinivas

Zero_wing said:


> Huh i was made your too stupid to see it get some glasses you arrogant d bag
> what's wrong? no real evidence to back up your claims too bad
> Wow other chinaman racist F trat again arrogant @ fro brains it will be more benifical for the Philippines we have alot of trading partners and china can just find other country to explot arrogant d bag
> Wow other moron with no brains he thinks thats the sorce of Philippine economy hahahaha the chinamen are really stupid



Nice move my Philippines, Historically speaking a Manchu ruler, not han, has drawn some random lines and based on that CCP is claiming.

The claim has no basis and Philippines will win the case  based on UNCLOS.

The thing which you are seeing from Chinese posters is Chinese imperial arrogance and they have little idea that those days are gone and CCP should behave.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zero_wing

Well i find it funny that d bag chinamen here can do is to insult us filipino with typical d bag Fu#kery like their arrogant government they just show how arrogant and so full of themsleves they truthly arrogant they are! Arrogant Sc*m

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## rott

Zero_wing said:


> Well i find it funny that d bag chinamen here can do is to insult us filipino with typical d bag Fu#kery like their arrogant government they just show how arrogant and so full of themsleves they truthly arrogant they are! Arrogant Sc*m


Have you ever re-read your post to examine what utter crap it is?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## xunzi

Jlaw said:


> As another poster wrote, today's Chinese are not the same Chinese from days gone by. Today's Chinese are fake with very little substance.
> Case in point, a small third world country is toying with China. I do not see this happening to Russia or US. If it did, these countries would have taken measures to totally destroy their economy instead of temporarily stopping Philipines import of bananas.


Not really. Today is not the same as yesterday. Today any action needs justification. Russia, whether you like it or not, has legitimate justification to intervene in Ukraine. At the moment, we simply do not have any justification to do that to the Philllipines. If we do, we will look very bad in the international arena, even from the pro-China camp. However now that the Phillipines has basically declare a diplomatic war with us, we have every right to respond in anyways we see fit and the world cannot cry about it. Let the game begins.



Zero_wing said:


> I welcome it chinamen junk is flooding my country's economy and its killing off industries here plus you people are source of drugs and illegal workersand other criminal activities along with your Nationalist conterparts, destorying filipino lives and and taking filipino jobs and lastly stealing our natural resources like what you people have done in Africa so i welcome that plus the Philippines has more investment in china than china has in the Philippines plus we have a lot of trade with America and Japan plus other which can easily fill whatever you backstabling jerks can so its not biggie for us sure it hurt but in the end its more benifical to us then to you so go on ahead and request that from your F up government.


If anyone has the right to cry about natural resources, it should be us CHINA. We supply over 90+% of rare metal to the WHOLE WORLD. Get that through your thick brain! As far as I'm concern, most of you are pirates, robbers, or blue collar workers. So I doubt what you say is true about Chinese working in Phillipines. Excuse me? Why would they working in the Philippine, a shithole? when they can work in a thriving economy like China. Make no sense. And thank for your "Thank you" rate. LOL


----------



## Zero_wing

xunzi said:


> Not really. Today is not the same as yesterday. Today any action needs justification. Russia, whether you like it or not, has legitimate justification to intervene in Ukraine. At the moment, we simply do not have any justification to do that to the Philllipines. If we do, we will look very bad in the international arena, even from the pro-China camp. However now that the Phillipines has basically declare a diplomatic war with us, we have every right to respond in anyways we see fit and the world cannot cry about it. Let the game begins.
> 
> 
> If anyone has the right to cry about natural resources, it should be us CHINA. We supply over 90+% of rare metal to the WHOLE WORLD. Get that through your thick brain! As far as I'm concern, most of you are pirates, robbers, or blue collar workers. So I doubt what you say is true about Chinese working in Phillipines. Excuse me? Why would they working in the Philippine, a shithole? when they can work in a thriving economy like China. Make no sense. LOL



hahaha really typical arrogant cunt it was all over the news thriving economy my @$$ ya and claiming a whole sea which no country has never done since ww2 is logical your smoking too much opnuim loser



rott said:


> Have you ever re-read your post to examine what utter crap it is?



huh why cant handle a taste of your medicine? screw you


----------



## xunzi

Zero_wing said:


> hahaha really typical arrogant cunt it was all over the news thriving economy my @$$ ya and claiming a whole sea which no country has never done since ww2 is logical your smoking too much opnuim loser
> 
> huh why cant handle a taste of your medicine? screw you


You forgot this part... "And thank for your "Thank you" rate. LOL"


----------



## Zero_wing

xunzi said:


> You forgot this part... "And thank for your "Thank you" rate. LOL"



What in the hell would i do that? wow your really smoking some good drugs there well i am talking to guy who's countrymen are known to be producers and makers of drugs so your somekind of tester for your kinds illegal exports?


----------



## xunzi

Zero_wing said:


> What in the hell would i do that? wow your really smoking some good drugs there well i am talking to guy who's countrymen are known to be producers and makers of drugs so your somekind of tester for your kinds illegal exports?


I'm talking about this, my friend.

Yes it is true that our smugglers try to ship drugs but anytime they travel over to the Philippines, your pirates caught them, confiscate their possession, and in rare case they get through to land, your Filipino robbers steal it. LOL





*Zero_wing rated your post




Thanks in the thread Philippines takes China to Court: End of Diplomacy in the South China Sea?.*
5:14 PM




Zero_wing rated your post



Thanks in the thread Philippines takes China to Court: End of Diplomacy in the South China Sea?.
Zero_wing rated your post



Thanks in the thread Philippines takes China to Court: End of Diplomacy in the South China Sea?.


----------



## TheTruth

Says the terrorist and mass murderer who oppresses the Moros


----------



## TheTruth

Srinivas said:


> Nice move my Philippines, Historically speaking a Manchu ruler, not han, has drawn some random lines and based on that CCP is claiming.



Because the ROC was ruled by Manchus? I know India is known for being a shithole full of malnourished cretins but you really set the bar low. Get the **** out of Ladakh and Sikkim, you are not the British.


----------



## terranMarine

TheTruth said:


> Because the ROC was ruled by Manchus? I know India is known for being a shithole full of malnourished cretins but you really set the bar low. Get the **** out of Ladakh and Sikkim, you are not the British.





TheTruth said:


> Because the ROC was ruled by Manchus? I know India is known for being a shithole full of malnourished cretins but you really set the bar low. Get the **** out of Ladakh and Sikkim, you are not the British.



You should know by now that Indians have zero brains or brainwashed by their own government. The Indian should read this page carefully Nine-dotted line - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It is news to us that Manchu is the founder and ruler of KMT lol, now everyone can see just how good these Indians are in faking history.


----------



## TheTruth

It seems like these extreme Hindu racist nationalists are very good at copying sounds in their heads, but when it comes out of their faces it's like intellectual diarrhea


----------



## Krueger

*The Wall Street Journal
By ANDREW BROWNE*

*China's Line in the Sea*
*Beijing has never properly explained what its 'Nine-Dash Line' Represents
April 1,2014*

*




*
*BEIJING -- When the Manchus ruled China, it was given the name South Sea—a maritime domain dotted with islets, atolls and lagoons that provided storm shelter for fishermen.
What today's atlases call the South China Sea received its English-language appellation, and its coordinates, under a 1953 document entitled Limits of Oceans and Seas published by the Monaco-based International Hydrographic Organization, whose patron is Prince Albert. 
And it's critical to the global economy.*

It carries more than half of the world's seaborne trade; connects the fast growing economies of the Asian Pacific with markets in Europe, the Middle East and Africa, and is reckoned to cover vast oil reserves. Yet, in a push that's creating alarm among China's neighbors—and the U.S. —the Han inheritors of the Manchu empire who now run China are making increasingly assertive claims to almost all of it as part of an ancient imperium that they are proudly reviving.

The boundaries of their "historical" claim are marked by a "nine-dash line"—a line made up of nine dashes, or strokes, that protrudes from China's southern Hainan Island as far as the northern coast of Indonesia, looping down like a giant lolling tongue.

*This line has always been something of a mystery. *

It was drawn up by cartographers of the former Kuomintang regime in 1946 in the chaotic final years of the Chinese civil war before the Kuomintang fled to Taiwan. And, in fact, the line started not with nine dashes but 11: Two were scrubbed out in 1953 after the victorious communists adopted the line. 
Scale and precision are prized by mapmakers, but the nine-dash line lacks any geographical coordinates. 

*It looks as though it was added with a thick black marker pen. What's more, Beijing has never properly explained what it represents. Does China's claim to "indisputable sovereignty" over the scattered territorial features inside the line derive from the line itself? Or is it the other way round, with the line deriving from those territorial features and the waters that surround them? China's neighbors who dispute its territorial assertions—among them the Philippines, Vietnam, Brunei and Malaysia—are left to guess.*

For these reasons, the prevailing view among Western legal scholars has long been thatthe nine-dash line wouldn't stand much chance if it was ever challenged under international law.
We may be about to find out. 

On Sunday, the Philippines filed the first-ever legal challenge to the line as part of a 4,000-page submission to a U.N. arbitration tribunal in The Hague.
It wants the line declared as without legal weight so that it can exploit the offshore energy and fishery resources within its U.N.-declared exclusive economic zone. uChina has so far abstained from the proceedings. The landmark case risks a Chinese backlash. Already, Beijing has all but frozen political ties with Manila. 

In recent days, Chinese ships have been playing cat-and-mouse games with Philippine vessels trying to reprovision marines stuck on a lonely outpost called the Second Thomas Shoal.
But what's given the case even greater significance — and a potential for escalation to a strategic level -- is that the U.S. has joined in attacks of the nine-dash line, dropping its previous diplomatic caution.

*In congressional testimony in February, Daniel Russel, the U.S. assistant secretary of state for East Asian and Pacific Affairs, said that while Washington doesn't take a position on sovereignty issues, the way that China pursues its territorial claims by reference to the nine-dash line creates "uncertainty, insecurity and instability." *

He added that the U.S. "would welcome China to clarify or adjust its nine-dash-line claim to bring it in accordance with the international law of the sea." A Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman retorted that "China's rights and interests in the South China Sea are formed in history and protected by international law." He didn't elaborate.

What prompted the American shift in rhetoric, says Paul Haenle, a former director for China, Taiwan, and Mongolian Affairs on the U.S. National Security Council, was China's decision last November to declare an Air Defense Identification Zone over the East China Sea, including disputed islands administered by Japan.

Washington has since explicitly warned Beijing not to do the same over the South China Sea. 
It fears, says Mr. Haenle "that we'll wake up one morning and discover the whole region has changed." But altering the nine-dash line, as the U.S. suggests, may be politically impossible for Beijing. 

*China regards the Philippines' action as a gross insolence. It's a slap at Xi Jinping's much trumpeted "China Dream," a notion that implies the restoration of the country's imperial splendor, including its control over a sea that it regards more or less as its internal lake.*
*




A China Coast Guard vessel tried to block a Philippine government boat as it attempted to enter a disputed part of the South China Sea on March 29. *

*Where is all this headed?*

If Manila prevails at The Hague — and it's not clear that the U.N. tribunal will accept jurisdiction over the case -- China could simply ignore the verdict and carry on as before. The simplest solution would be for all countries concerned to shelve their territorial disputes and focus on joint development of the area's natural resources. But that's not the way the Chinese empire has traditionally worked things out. In past days, small countries like the Philippines knew their place — at the bottom of a regional hierarchy dominated by China. It is not likely to quietly allow Manila to upset that order.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles...0001424052702303978304579474570220330370.html

*
*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## rott

Zero_wing said:


> huh why cant handle a taste of your medicine? screw you


If you're a woman and pretty, sure, anytime.


----------



## PolarAir

the nine dashlines are simplified from former eleven dashlines, which was put forward by Chiang Kai-shek, former president of the Republic of China, in other words, Taiwan. Since Taiwan is American allies, I have a question. Hey, US, whose side are you really on?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zero_wing

terranMarine said:


> You should know by now that Indians have zero brains or brainwashed by their own government. The Indian should read this page carefully Nine-dotted line - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> It is news to us that Manchu is the founder and ruler of KMT lol, now everyone can see just how good these Indians are in faking history.



hahaha wow thats your defense? I think your kind is doing that to your own people so B%tch please



xunzi said:


> I'm talking about this, my friend.
> 
> Yes it is true that our smugglers try to ship drugs but anytime they travel over to the Philippines, your pirates caught them, confiscate their possession, and in rare case they get through to land, your Filipino robbers steal it. LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Zero_wing rated your post
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks in the thread Philippines takes China to Court: End of Diplomacy in the South China Sea?.*
> 5:14 PM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zero_wing rated your post
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks in the thread Philippines takes China to Court: End of Diplomacy in the South China Sea?.
> Zero_wing rated your post
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks in the thread Philippines takes China to Court: End of Diplomacy in the South China Sea?.



Wow that's so funny brcause only criminals call victims robbers in court well its your kinds burnden to prove that we are see you trashes at court if not good luck to your country and enjoy being the only member of the UN security council that is a threat to world peace aka an international law breaker.



TheTruth said:


> It seems like these extreme Hindu racist nationalists are very good at copying sounds in their heads, but when it comes out of their faces it's like intellectual diarrhea



Wow stupid argument from a stupid arrogant racist if your looking for a racist C#nt just look at your mirror



rott said:


> If you're a woman and pretty, sure, anytime.


 
Wow rott that name suits your your not only stupid like the rest of this nazi chinamen but your also a sexist well we have a saying in this part of the world "that robber brother is a criminal" so that analogy works for you your just model of typical arrogant jerk off


----------



## Zero_wing

Wow that's stupid last time i check china is landmass how in the hell would it have big claim on whoel sea as territory no nation since the end of the WW2 Have that kind of claim its just so illogical but typical arrogant nations have always say things to justifly their invasion of others. China Needs resources


----------



## Srinivas

Because they do not know !!! simple ...... they only want others to accept their hegemony and are trying to cutoff Japanese trade routes. There by trying to subdue Japan.

Since most of the international trade of Asia Pacific happens through SCS , the one who controls SCS will have greater leverage in that region.

Don't be surprised if they try to impose some toll tax for the ships that are passing by.


----------



## xunzi

Our territorial integrity cannot be challenged and we will not back down an inches. If the Phillipines think they can, they are more than welcome to try.


----------



## terranMarine

Srinivas said:


> Because they do not know !!! simple ...... they only want others to accept their hegemony and are trying to cutoff Japanese trade routes. There by trying to subdue Japan.
> 
> Since most of the international trade of Asia Pacific happens through SCS , the one who controls SCS will have greater leverage in that region.
> 
> Don't be surprised if they try to impose some toll tax for the ships that are passing by.



And i thought you Indian was a supporter of Taiwan, well Chiang Kai Shek made the map lol now show your support

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Srinivas

terranMarine said:


> And i thought you Indian was a supporter of Taiwan, well Chiang Kai Shek made the map lol now show your support



Dude !! I am only opposing the illogical assertions of CCP here.

On what basis China is claiming SCS?? We can also draw map including parts of ASEAN nations as below based on chinese poor logic.






Atleast Indians ruled over those regions unlike those islands in SCS which were never inhibited.

Add to that Chinese is a signatory of UNCLOS.

Today nation states are different from imperial kingdoms of past.

This is CCP's pure Hegemony !!


----------



## terranMarine

Srinivas said:


> Dude !! I am only opposing the illogical assertions of CCP here.
> 
> On what basis China is claiming SCS?? We can also draw map including parts of ASEAN nations as below based on chinese poor logic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Atleast Indians ruled over those regions unlike those islands in SCS which were never inhibited.
> 
> Add to that Chinese is a signatory of UNCLOS.
> 
> Today nation states are different from imperial kingdoms of past.
> 
> This is CCP's pure Hegemony !!



You should tell that to KMT, it's Taiwan's claim as well not just CCP, afterall Chiang Kai Shek made the map hahaha


----------



## Oldman1

terranMarine said:


> You should tell that to KMT, it's Taiwan's claim as well not just CCP, afterall Chiang Kai Shek made the map hahaha



Wait so this is Taiwan's claim and not China's? Do you still believe Chiang Kai Shek's words?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## terranMarine

Oldman1 said:


> Wait so this is Taiwan's claim and not China's? Do you still believe Chiang Kai Shek's words?



READ OLD MAN Nine-dotted line - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The nine-dotted line was originally an eleven-dotted-line first shown on a map published by the Kuomintang government of the Republic of China (1912–1949) in December 1947 to justify its claims in the South China Sea.[3] After the Communist Party of China took over mainland China and formed the People's Republic of China in 1949, the line was adopted and revised to nine as endorsed by Zhou Enlai.[3] After evacuating to Taiwan, the Republic of China has continued its claims, and the nine-dotted line remains as the rationale for Taiwan's claims to the Spratly and Paracel Islands.

BOTH ROC AND PRC LOVE THE MAP  , now don't just act like a hypocrite and point your fingers only at PRC.


----------



## OrionHunter

In a nutshell, the Nine Dash Line means the whole of the South China Sea belongs to China! Or that's what they think! UNCLOS be damned!


----------



## rott

Zero_wing said:


> Wow rott that name suits your your not only stupid like the rest of this nazi chinamen but your also a sexist well we have a saying in this part of the world "that robber brother is a criminal" so that analogy works for you your just model of typical arrogant jerk off


So are you a pretty woman or not? Stop spinning things around.


----------



## nufix

> The amphibious dock landing ship (LPD) “Changbaishan” of the PLAN and the guided-missile frigate "Hasanuddin" of the Indonesian Navy hold the coordinated damage control drill.


----------



## Zero_wing

rott said:


> So are you a pretty woman or not? Stop spinning things around.



what's wrong no more undisputable claims cr@p?


----------



## Zero_wing

xunzi said:


> Our territorial integrity cannot be challenged and we will not back down an inches. If the Phillipines think they can, they are more than welcome to try.



Oh please you arrogant imperials are the ones taking here if you have evidence go ITCLOS


----------



## Zsari

Krueger said:


> Beijing has never properly explained what its 'Nine-Dash Line' Represents


 
See the maps of the solid lines and colored area? Connect the nine dash line and color it red, then you'll basically have the same thing as everyone else. But then strategic ambiguity has always been in the US playbook that China wouldn't mind borrowing.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## shuttler

what a string of clever fabulous artistic dash lines nicely demarcating what belong to us and what not!
It is like a deep perforated pocket capturing the significant but allowing sufficient leak of breathing space for the rest to prosper


----------



## GR!FF!N

Cabinet Secretary Jose Rene Almendras says the Philippine government has discussed, and prepared for, the possible consequences of its pleading against China


MANILA, Philippines – The Philippine government is ready for China’s anticipated sanctions following its decision to question a territorial dispute with the economic giant before an international arbitral tribunal, a Palace official said on Tuesday, April 1.

Cabinet Secretary Jose Rene Almendras also told ANC’s _Headstart_ that “everybody knows” Beijing is not fond of President Benigno Aquino III – who has taken a strong position on the West Philippine Sea dispute – and may be either waiting for him to step down in 2016 or is already making life difficult for him during his term.

Almendras made the statement when asked about sanctions that the Philippines may face after it filed its historic pleading against China’s claims on the West Philippine Sea.

Asked if he believed China would go to the extent of funding the communist insurgency as an indirect sanction on the Aquino administration, as suggested by former Interior Secretary Rafael Alunan III, Almendras said, “Hard to answer.”

But he later added, as a general statement on possible sanctions from China, “I guess everybody knows they don’t like President Aquino so they either wait for 2016 or they’re trying make life hard for him while he’s still around.”

“Have you read what they write about the President? They use some really nasty names,” Almendras said with a laugh, but did not elaborate. He was apparently referring to critical commentaries against Aquino in China’s state-owned media.

*Preparations*

Almendras, who was energy secretary prior to his current appointment, allayed fears that China may sabotage the country’s power supply through the National Grid Corp of the Philippines (NGCP), which is 40% owned by the State Grid of China.

He said he was “aware of the problem.” When he headed the Department of Energy, Chinese patrol boats harassed a Philippine exploration vessel in Reed Bank, which is within Philippine boundaries.

“We had already put in place certain mechanisms and shall we say, the safety features to protect our interest [in the NGCP]. If they put it [the power] off, we can put it back on,” Almendras said.

He said while China owns 40% of NGCP, 60% is owned by Filipinos “who are very supportive and believe in Philippine sovereignty over other issues.”

“There have been discussions with them, plans with them and actual technical interventions in certain cases which we put in place when I was still Secretary of Energy,” the Palace official said.

Almendras also eased concerns over China’s feared introduction of viruses to the country’s telecommunications system through Chinese suppliers.

“There have been discussions about our telcos being very dependent on certain suppliers. They have had third party evaluation from other groups other than the supplier to make sure that they are also equally protected. They are also having preparations,” he said.

*Anticipated sanctions*

Almendras said that Palace officials have discussed the possible consequences of the move, which may include trade and immigration sanctions.

“There probably are trade sanctions, there probably are immigration sanctions and visas. A whole bunch of potential actions was discussed. And this is not new because even before the filing…China was saying this and saying that. Admittedly, there were such indirect threats as you may want to call it but the President believes in resolving things,” he said.

Chinese foreign ministry spokesman Hong Lei had earlier called on the Philippines to “avoid further damage to bilateral relations.”

When the Philippines had a stand off with China at Scarborough Shoal in 2012, China imposed restrictions on banana imports from the Philippines, which threatened the local banana industry, but shipments have since normalized.

Almendras downplayed the economic impact of similar trade sanctions on the Philippines by one of its biggest trading partners.

“China benefits more from us. They export a lot more from us than we export to them. We send more tourists to them than they send tourists to us. If is unfortunate if such actions happen but at the end of the day, the President has to make these decisions in the light of what is right for the Philippines,” he said.

On calls to boycott China-made products if China imposes trade sanctions on the Philippines, Almendras said the President is not a “knee jerk” leader.

“We have been reasonable. The President is not a knee jerk [leader]. He will not let emotions dictate his actions….The President is very cool, he’s not going to be emotional. He’s not a tooth-for-a-tooth kind of [leader]. At the end of the day, he says, What would be good for the Filipino people, what would be good for the country?” he said.

*Open to dialogue*

Almendras reiterated that the President is open to continuing dialogue with China, even after the Philippines had filed the pleading.

“I can tell you with a straight face, the President never closed his door to China. In every step of the way, the President has always been available to whoever they sent, whoever they talked to. The President has to look after the interest of the country,” he said.

Asked if China has sent people to discuss the matter with Palace officials, he said, “There have been people who have been talking for and in behalf of China. China has friends in the country. I mean that both as good and as bad. We need to be aware of these things. I know for a fact that the President never closed his door on them."

"And that’s not just China, that’s true with the MILF, MNLF, CPP-NPA,” Almendras said, enumerating the country's former and existing rebel groups.

Philippines ready for China ‘sanctions’

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zero_wing

Cut ties with china the Philippines will not benefit on anything from the Imperial Maoist Sc^m

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Jlaw

Zero_wing said:


> Cut ties with china the Philippines will not benefit on anything from the Imperial Maoist Sc^m


 Many Chinese agree with cutting ties with Phillipines


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

40% of their power grid is owned by China. 

Now, guess how much of the Filipino private economy is owned by ethnic Chinese minorities in the Philippines?


----------



## terranMarine

Chinese-Dragon said:


> 40% of their power grid is owned by China.
> 
> Now, guess how much of the Filipino private economy is owned by ethnic Chinese minorities in the Philippines?



40%  
DAMN

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Jlaw

Chinese-Dragon said:


> 40% of their power grid is owned by China.
> 
> Now, guess how much of the Filipino private economy is owned by ethnic Chinese minorities in the Philippines?


If that is true, why would Filipinos fear Chinese sanctions?


----------



## jarves

China is bullying small countries as usual.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## xuxu1457

Why to sanction of Philippines? That's not the treat thing's manner of China but westerns, different thinking manner
when you want what another want to do, you should think as:
Right: if we were China, China will.......
Wrong:if China were me, China will......

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## terranMarine

jarves said:


> As i have already said,Tell your moderator to give me excuse then i will answer your offtopic posts because he wont take a second to give me a warning.And in case you didnt knew there was nothing secret of that Henderson brook's report,Media just made a lot of hue and cry this time.
> Again dont post offtopic questions becasue i will not answer from this time unless of course your moderator gives me an excuse



Good boy for listening to Chinese moderator, Indian would make a good student


----------



## jarves

terranMarine said:


> Good boy for listening to Chinese moderator, Indian would make a good student


Indeed so you accept that all talk by Chinese leaders of "peaceful rise of China" was just talk and not walk the talk. and China wants to annex lands of other countries and lay claims on Ocean's of other countries and is a hegemony when itself cries of Japanese attrocities in the past.Hypocrite,isnt it??


----------



## jarves

terranMarine said:


> I accept China is bullying India back in 1962, unnecessarily backstabbing India and responsible for all those casualties. China should be ashamed for lying to the world and to India by accusing you guys as backstabbers.


@Hu Songshan Plese take care of the trolls.


----------



## BoQ77

terranMarine said:


> READ OLD MAN Nine-dotted line - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> The nine-dotted line was originally an eleven-dotted-line first shown on a map published by the Kuomintang government of the Republic of China (1912–1949) in December 1947 to justify its claims in the South China Sea.[3] After the Communist Party of China took over mainland China and formed the People's Republic of China in 1949, the line was adopted and revised to nine as endorsed by Zhou Enlai.[3] After evacuating to Taiwan, the Republic of China has continued its claims, and the nine-dotted line remains as the rationale for Taiwan's claims to the Spratly and Paracel Islands.
> 
> BOTH ROC AND PRC LOVE THE MAP  , now don't just act like a hypocrite and point your fingers only at PRC.



what's the claim before ? officially China submit the nine-dashed line to UN in 2009 and meet many protest since then.
even nine-dashed-line is non valuable on legal aspect, 

that's just a kid's work ... with thick line marking pen ... 

We would love the map with thousand dots line which show a half of China mainland belong to Vietnam.
But that's just for fun if a kid use marking pen to do so in 1947



shuttler said:


> what a string of clever fabulous artistic dash lines nicely demarcating what belong to us and what not!
> It is like a deep perforated pocket capturing the significant but allowing sufficient leak of breathing space for the rest to prosper



Crazy one of BIG FOUR


----------



## xunzi

Zero_wing said:


> Oh please you arrogant imperials are the ones taking here if you have evidence go ITCLOS


Ask your Daddy UNITED STATES OF AMERICA that question.


----------



## terranMarine

BoQ77 said:


> what's the claim before ? officially China submit the nine-dashed line to UN in 2009 and meet many protest since then.
> even nine-dashed-line is non valuable on legal aspect,
> 
> that's just a kid's work ... with thick line marking pen ...
> 
> We would love the map with thousand dots line which show a half of China mainland belong to Vietnam.
> But that's just for fun if a kid use marking pen to do so in 1947



Good suggestion we will draw a map with dots all around VN as we all know China had been ruling your people for over a thousand years.


----------



## BoQ77

So China will join the case submitted by Fillipin ?


----------



## xunzi

This is the Philippines style of waving a diplomatic and preemptively waving an economic battle with us. The rest of the world can see that no where did we mention sanction in our official response but yet it is the Philippines who expect and want the unexpected to be imminent. As a result, we reserve the right to do what we see fit including, but not limit to, cooperation and tie in various areas.


----------



## terranMarine

deputy director of China Institute for Marine Affairs with the state Oceanic Administration, first clarifies what arbitration is.

"Arbitration is not a lawsuit in a court. The Philippines is not pleading at the International Court of Justice, or the Hague Tribunal. The tribunal is only a temporary one consisting of five members, who are arbitrators and not judges. The biggest feature of international law is the respect of sovereignty. China has a clear stance on the issue which is that China will not participate in the tribunal. If the tribunal insists on proceeding with the procedure and making any arbitration ruling, China will not enforce it regardless."

The Philippines's move is just a one-man show.

"I don't think the arbitration should be established because the tribunal has no jurisdiction over the dispute. As early as in 2006, China excluded any compulsive resolution in terms of territorial sovereignty or marine disputes. The arbitration is considered as a kind of compulsive solution, so China will not "play in the game" from the very beginning."



BoQ77 said:


> You revenge Japan ( Nanjing ) by do that to Fillipin ?
> That's why Japan wanna help Fillipin ...



You forgot Japan raped the Pinoys?


----------



## jarves

BoQ77 said:


> You revenge Japan ( Nanjing ) by do that to Fillipin ?
> That's why Japan wanna help Fillipin ...


Dont reply to offtopic post and troll posts,just report them and stick to the topic.


----------



## BoQ77

During the recent meeting, Angela merkel gifted Xi Jinping the map of China without SCS islands and Tibet, Xinjiang, Manchuria, Taiwan ...
published by Germany in 18th century.

28 Mar 2014

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## jarves

sweetgrape said:


> Phillippine as a small country claim on the island of China, then accuse China of want "its" land, well, like you indian, do the shameless thing.
> the peacefull rise of China no mean you slap me, we have to tolerate it.
> How do you know the history of SCS? don't know, get away, I know you indian just have a big mouth.
> 
> 
> Raping, that is you friend indian favourite.
> Chinese don't like pilippine girl, more Vietnaese was bought by Chinese, you know.


That what is your version of history,lets see what a filipino has to say about this @ManilaBoy45


----------



## StarCraft_ZT

BoQ77 said:


> During the recent meeting, Angela merkel gifted Xi Jinping the map of China without SCS islands and Tibet, Xinjiang, Manchuria, Taiwan ...
> published by Germany in 18th century.
> 
> 28 Mar 2014



Don't spread lies. This is real China.






Do you really think Merkel would be stupid that way?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## sweetgrape

jarves said:


> That what is your version of history,lets see what a filipino has to say about this @ManilaBoy45


So you just know the history from a Phillippine? then you got that island belong to phillippine?

In my hand, don't have english sourse about the history, ask others, I know you don't like Chinese, but don't just talk bullshit here for attacking China on the history you know little, although I know that's your indian common character.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

StarCraft_ZT said:


> Don't spread lies. This is real China.
> 
> View attachment 23119
> 
> 
> Do you really think Merkel would be stupid that way?



Map of China: Angela Merkel’s Gift to Xi Jinping Causes Controversy - TIME

Emily Rauhala / Beijing @emilyrauhala
April 2, 2014





German Chancellor Angela Merkel presents Chinese President Xi Jinping with a a map of China from the 18th century at the Chancellor's Office on March 28, 2014 in Berlin. BPA/Getty Images
*An antique map of China gifted by the German Chancellor to China's President is at odds with how China views its historical boundaries*

Chancellor Merkel probably meant well. In Berlin last week, she gave her guest, Chinese President Xi Jinping, a 1735 map of China made by esteemed French cartographer Jean-Baptiste Bourguignon d’Anville (1697–1 782). The map, part of a series by d’Anville, was based in part on information gleaned by Jesuit missionaries. It was well-regarded at the time and republished for decades to come.

A perfect gift for a visiting dignitary, right? You would think so. But ever since the exchange, China’s Internet has been buzzing about the gift. Why did Merkel choose this particular item? What was the message in the map?

For students of Chinese history, the date jumps out. This was the height of the great Qing Dynasty, specifically the year when the Qianlong Emperor ascended to power. He presided over a military expansion west and north, but his death, in 1799, is associated with the period of decline that followed.

And then there are the boundaries. The 1735 d’Anville map shows “China proper” as a land mass separate from areas like Xinjiang, Tibet, Mongolia and Manchuria. The island of Hainan is drawn in a different color, as is Taiwan. This depiction is utterly at odds with how history is taught here.

Chinese students learn that these areas are inalienable parts of China, and that they have been for a long, long time. One netizen described the map as a “slap” from Merkel. “We always say some regions are inalienable parts of China since ancient times, but Merkel told us that even in 18th century those regions still did not belong to China.”

Another reasoned that it was the map-makers, not Chancellor Merkel, who messed things up. “Merkel has no special connotation,” they wrote. “At that time German priests [sic] were not allowed to travel in such areas.”

To complicate the matter, at least two different versions of the map have been circulating online. State news wire Xinhua seems to have published an entirely different version of the map, prompting an entirely different set of theories.

Tibetan activist and blogger Tsering Woeser spotted the difference and pointed it out on her Facebook page. To express her dismay at the deception, she used a Chinese idiom that might be translated as “they are so good at perpetrating fraud!” More literally, the phrase means “to steal the beams and pillars and replace them with rotten timber.”

The lesson: Maps mean different things to different people. And history is made of shaky stuff.


*Netizens in China speculate on Merkel's map gift to Xi*

Tsai Meng-yu and Staff Reporter
2014-04-01
12:22 (GMT+8)





President Xi and Chancellor Merkel speak to the press in Berlin, March 28. (Photo/Xinhua)

The German chancellor, Angela Merkel, presented the visiting Chinese president, Xi Jinping, with a map of China from the 18th century on Xi's third stop on his European tour on March 28. China's internet has since been abuzz concerning the meaning of the gift.

Merkel presented the map as she received Xi and his wife Peng Liyuan at her private residence in Berlin. Upon handing over the gift, Merkel said the map was the first precise map of China drawn in Germany in 1735.

1735 is significant in Chinese history as the year that the Qianlong emperor ascended the throne. Under the long-reigning Qianlong, the Qing empire (1644-1911) would reach its zenith in terms of territory and cultural achievements before entering a long period of decline following his death in 1799.

Some netizens said the map implies that Germany supports China in its dispute with Japan over the Diaoyutai (Diaoyu or Senkaku) islands in the East China Sea.

Others said the gift is "very meaningful" in the light of the ongoing crisis in Ukraine and that the map is a move by Germany to remind China of its past wounds following its period of expansion.

In his two-day visit to the country, Xi delivered a speech on March 29 urging German entrepreneurs to seize the opportunities that China is offering for common development. He said Germany should take advantage of its technological superiority to push the European Union to open more services to China.

Xi added that China needs the product quality offered by Germany, while Germany can depend on the fast development of the Chinese market.

Xi is now in Belgium for the last leg of his tour. He is the first Chinese leader to visit EU headquarters in Brussels since China and Belgium established official diplomatic ties 40 years ago.


----------



## jarves

sweetgrape said:


> So you just know the history from a Phillippine? then you got that island belong to phillippine?
> 
> In my hand, don't have english sourse about the history, ask others, I know you don't like Chinese, but don't just talk bullshit here for attacking China on the history you know little, although I know that's your indian common character.


I am not judging anything,i heared your opinion now i want to hear what a filipino has to say.You could have given me a link of why that island belongs to China that would have strengthened your claims instead of doing personal attacks and posting sweeping posts.


----------



## sweetgrape

jarves said:


> I am not judging anything,i heared your opinion now i want to hear what a filipino has to say.You could have given me a link of why that island belongs to China that would have strengthened your claims instead of doing personal attacks and posting sweeping posts.


In my eyes, your post also sweeping post, know shit about the history, attacking china.

Chinese have post many proofs in the forum, not only Phillippine do, you just don't accept it, or even don't want read it, OK, I don't mark that site, also don't search it for you, debating with indian on SCS is very ridiculous.


----------



## jarves

sweetgrape said:


> In my eyes, your post also sweeping post, know shit about the history, attacking china.
> 
> Chinese have post many proofs in the forum, not only Phillippine do, you just don't accept it, or even don't want read it, OK, I don't mark that site, also don't search it for you, debating with indian on SCS is very ridiculous.


As usual,not giving any links or proof.Have a good day.


----------



## sweetgrape

jarves said:


> As usual,not giving any links or proof.Have a good day.


Why don't give me the links of proof to back your opinion that China bully Philippine and that island belong to Phillippine?


----------



## jarves

sweetgrape said:


> Why don't give me the links of proof to back your opinion that China bully Philippine and that island belong to Phillippine?


I never said that islands belong to Philliphines.China threatening to put sanctions on China is bullying or not??


----------



## sweetgrape

jarves said:


> I never said that islands belong to Philliphines.China threatening to put sanctions on China is bullying or not??


 You mean below comment you post is bullshit?




jarves said:


> Indeed so you accept that all talk by Chinese leaders of "peaceful rise of China" was just talk and not walk the talk. and China wants to annex lands of other countries and lay claims on Ocean's of other countries and is a hegemony when itself cries of Japanese attrocities in the past.Hypocrite,isnt it??


----------



## jarves

sweetgrape said:


> You mean below comment you post is bullshit?


Where does my post say that Islands belongs to China??? And offcouse China is a hegemony and wants to annex lands and oceans.Case in point Aksai Chin and 9 dashed lines.


----------



## sweetgrape

jarves said:


> Where does my post say that Islands belongs to China??? And offcouse China is a hegemony and wants to annex lands and oceans.Case in point Aksai Chin and 9 dashed lines.


Hehe, talking bullshit again.

Just accept that, you know shit about the history of SCS, here you just want attacking China, don't pretend to you here maintain justice.


----------



## jarves

sweetgrape said:


> Hehe, talking bullshit again.
> 
> Just accept that, you know shit about the history of SCS, here you just want attacking China, don't pretend to you here maintain justice.


Not talking bullshit but just exposing hypocrisy,dont get butthurt after realising the truth.


----------



## sweetgrape

jarves said:


> Not talking bullshit but just exposing hypocrisy,dont get butthurt after realising the truth.


Truth?! Indian very like saying they know the "truth", hehe.


----------



## Kyle Sun

Just do not buy Banana from PH


----------



## Zero_wing

Chinese-Dragon said:


> 40% of their power grid is owned by China.
> 
> Now, guess how much of the Filipino private economy is owned by ethnic Chinese minorities in the Philippines?



Those are filipino citizens so why? filipinos run filipino industries?



Chinese-Dragon said:


> 40% of their power grid is owned by China.
> 
> Now, guess how much of the Filipino private economy is owned by ethnic Chinese minorities in the Philippines?



So how about the other 60% its still filipino owned and under our laws we can nationalized it in times of emergencies so again make your threats but nothing is going to stop this good luck proving your illogical imperialism in court



Kyle Sun said:


> Just do not buy Banana from PH



Ya cut ties with the Philippines we dont need your trash here


----------



## sweetgrape

Kyle Sun said:


> Just do not buy Banana from PH


Not encough, negotiating with Philippine is wasting time, Only force can solve it, get it back or not, one shot.


----------



## Zero_wing

sweetgrape said:


> Why don't give me the links of proof to back your opinion that China bully Philippine and that island belong to Phillippine?



Yes and why if it belongs to your empire why not prove it?


----------



## Zero_wing

Oh burn the chinamen are really arrogant here and f#%^king stupid


----------



## sweetgrape

Zero_wing said:


> Yes and why if it belongs to your empire why not prove it?


Seems belong to you philippine?


----------



## jandk

Zero_wing said:


> Those are filipino citizens so why? filipinos run filipino industries?
> 
> 
> 
> So how about the other 60% its still filipino owned and under our laws we can nationalized it in times of emergencies so again make your threats but nothing is going to stop this good luck proving your illogical imperialism in court
> 
> 
> 
> Ya cut ties with the Philippines we dont need your trash here



Why did you guys let so many Chinese into your country? I mean it doesn't add up. China is not on good terms with you so why? India would never allow so many Chinese to set up shop and dominate our economy. I'm curious.


----------



## terranMarine

Kyle Sun said:


> Just do not buy Banana from PH



We should send their banana shipment back lol


----------



## terranMarine

Srinivas said:


> Manipulation of GDP and history is more in China. Chinese economy is big but not as big as CCP is picturing, definitely there are some manipulation at local, provincial and central level has happened in numerous instances over the years.



So you saying Indian GDP is not manipulated and Chinese GDP has manipulation? So what history has China manipulated other than that we invaded India in 1962?


----------



## Kyle Sun

Zero_wing said:


> Those are filipino citizens so why? filipinos run filipino industries?
> 
> 
> 
> So how about the other 60% its still filipino owned and under our laws we can nationalized it in times of emergencies so again make your threats but nothing is going to stop this good luck proving your illogical imperialism in court
> 
> 
> 
> Ya cut ties with the Philippines we dont need your trash here



No problem , no one force you to buy "made in china"

Dear Indian and China , do not off line please.

I do not want to see india-sino war in this topic.


----------



## Martian2

My comment on Philippine Star.

Phl case vs China will fail - US expert | Philippine Star


----------



## Viet

Martian2 said:


> My comment on Philippine Star.
> 
> Phl case vs China will fail - US expert | Philippine Star


you are a smart guy.

I believe Vietnam can continue copy from China. why not unite first Indochina and then later the whole SE Asia under Vietnamese banner? Second, Vietnam can close security agreements with America, Russia and Japan.


----------



## Zero_wing

Then what's your worry chinaman?


----------



## Zero_wing

jandk said:


> Why did you guys let so many Chinese into your country? I mean it doesn't add up. China is not on good terms with you so why? India would never allow so many Chinese to set up shop and dominate our economy. I'm curious.



Because are open country we love people its our greatest streagth and weakness but this our chinese filipinos they are one of us so no problems here otherwise how the can they owned businesses without a large filipino business partner that must own 60% of the business under Philippine law so they are filipinos again dont let the chinaman imperial trash feed you with propaganda they just trying to create trouble here just like anyway else they have set their own sites in so ignore those stupid arrogant trash people.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Martian2

You guys seem to like trolling my posts. I'll just create a new thread.


----------



## Martian2

My comment on Philippine Star.

Phl case vs China will fail - US expert | Philippine Star

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Martian2

The bottom line is that military power decides national boundaries.

UNCLOS is a waste of time.

Whoever has the military might will draw the map. It's that simple.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

Martian2 said:


> The bottom line is that military power decides national boundaries.
> 
> UNCLOS is a waste of time.
> 
> Whoever has the military might will draw the map. It's that simple.


so jungle´s law should prevail?

when and how do you want to start the war? don´t waste our time.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Martian2

It has always been might makes right.

How did NATO carve Kosovo from Serbia? Was it military force or at the United Nations. Hint: It wasn't the U.N.

How about Israel annexing chunk after chunk of Palestinian land? Same thing. It's Israeli military power.

How about Russian annexation of Georgian territory? Might makes right again.

How about Russian annexation of Crimea? Still military force.

How about probable Russian annexation of Ukraine? Still Russian military power.

Thus, military power has always decided territorial disputes.
----------

To answer your question, the territorial dispute between China and Vietnam will be decided by military force. I believe the result will be the Chinese annexation of Vietnam. I can't think of any other outcome.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Srinivas

The author is emphasizing on the fact that China may not obey UNCLOS and will try to negotiate bilaterally.

But legally Philippines has a strong case and Chinese have no basis in claiming the islands except some random sketches of Manchu time.


----------



## Martian2

Regarding ITLOS, the United States has refused to ratify UNCLOS. Thus, the United States does not recognize ITLOS.

Russia also does not recognize ITLOS.

The United States and Russia will not compromise their sovereignty and they have refused to recognize ITLOS. Similarly, China must not compromise its sovereignty and should ignore ITLOS.

----------
"News Analysis: Int'l tribunal not solution to South China Sea tensions

May 13, 2012 - The United States is among 34 nations that have not ratified the UNCLOS and therefore officially do not recognize it, he added. ... the Philippines does bring the case to the ITLOS, China is not obliged to appear in the tribunal, ..."
----------
"Russia refused arbitration proceedings on the Arctic Sunrise case

Oct 24, 2013 - Russia refuses to recognize the authority of the arbitration on the Arctic ... and the International Tribunal on the law of the sea that it does not ..."


----------



## Srinivas

But China is a signatory of UNCLOS which is an international Law. USA and Russia were not signatories.

UNCLOS is implemented world wide. On the basis of UNCLOS Philippines can challenge China, what do China have to counter Philippines???





Martian2 said:


> Regarding ITLOS, the United States has refused to ratify UNCLOS. Thus, the United States does not recognize ITLOS.
> 
> Russia also does not recognize ITLOS.
> 
> The United States and Russia will not compromise their sovereignty and they have refused to recognize ITLOS. Similarly, China must not compromise its sovereignty and should ignore ITLOS.
> 
> ----------
> "News Analysis: Int'l tribunal not solution to South China Sea tensions
> 
> May 13, 2012 - The United States is among 34 nations that have not ratified the UNCLOS and therefore officially do not recognize it, he added. ... the Philippines does bring the case to the ITLOS, China is not obliged to appear in the tribunal, ..."
> ----------
> "Russia refused arbitration proceedings on the Arctic Sunrise case
> 
> Oct 24, 2013 - Russia refuses to recognize the authority of the arbitration on the Arctic ... and the International Tribunal on the law of the sea that it does not ..."



*UNCLOS explained: Why China’s claims in South China Sea are invalid*
MANILA, Philippines — With a little over a month before the Philippines submits its written arguments to the international Permanent Court of Arbitration, Solicitor General Francis Jardeleza publicly spoke for the first time about the basis of the Philippines’ case against China’s claim to nearly the entire South China/West Philippine Sea.

*“You need to have land before you can have rights to the sea. It’s as simple as that.You cannot just have rights to the sea without owning land,”* Jardeleza said in a forum in the University of the Philippines (UP) law center, citing the basic principle of the United Nations Convention of the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS).

China, in 2009, submitted to the UN its “nine-dash line” claim that covers the entire South China Sea, including parts of the Philippines’ western seaboard from the provinces of Ilocos Norte up to Palawan.

China’s claim, however, has been repeatedly called invalid and not in accordance with UNCLOS, which the Philippines ratified in 1986 and China in 1996.

Maritime features

The UNCLOS states three different types of maritime features that allow for the waters surrounding a country to be claimed as part of its territory.

The first are “Islands” defined as “a naturally formed area of land, surrounded by water and above water at high tide,” Jardeleza said.

Islands, such as Luzon, entitles the country that owns it to a 12 nautical mile (approximately 22 kilometers) territorial sea from the coastline with which it has full sovereignty. A country can exclude foreign entities from its territorial sea.

The island is also entitled to a 200 nm (approximately 370 km) exclusive economic zone (EEZ), which gives the country the sole right to exploit the resources within it such as fish and also mineral and oil reserves, if any.

The second are “rocks or reefs” that are mostly below water but have rocky protrusions above water during high tide. The important point under UNCLOS states that a maritime feature is a rock if “it cannot sustain human habitation or economic life on its own,” Jardeleza said.

Such mostly submerged features are entitled to only a 12 nm territorial sea and no EEZ. Examples of such are Bajo de Masinloc, also known as Panatag shoal or Scarborough shoal, which lies 120 nm off the coast of Zambales province.

The shoal is a submerged coral reef with a rocky protrusion that is three meters above the water during high tide. It cannot be classified as an island because it cannot sustain economic activity or humans on its own, Jardeleza said.

The third type of maritime features called “low tide elevation” are submerged rocks and reefs that are not visible above water. This type of maritime feature is not entitled to any territorial sea or EEZ.

Contested Island groups

There are two island groups, Paracel Islands and Spratlys Islands, and one shoal, Scarborough, in South China Sea/West Philippine Sea that are the subject of maritime disputes between several countries.

The Paracel Islands is disputed by Vietnam and China only. The Philippines has no interest in it because it is far from the country’s EEZ.

Scarborough shoal off the coast of Zambales lies within the Philippines (EEZ) but has been exclusively under the control of the Chinese since the 2012 standoff.

The most controversial is the Spratly Group of Islands that is claimed by China, Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan.

Spratly Islands is composed of more than 140 maritime features of which only 40 are above water some of the time [and of that 40] only 20 are above water at high tide, according toJardeleza.

“The claim of the Philippines in the arbitration is that none of the features occupied or controlled by China is entitled to a 200 nm EEZ,” he said.

“You don’t have to be a rocket scientist, the [nine-dash line] claim violates UNCLOS. The most that China can claim should only be 200 nm outside of Hainan,” Jardeleza said.

Eight features under protest

The case submitted by the Philippines to the International Tribunal on the Law of the Sea (ITLOS) concerns eight maritime features that are currently under the control of China.

The first four are low tide elevations that are completely submerged: Mischief Reef, which is 130 nm from Palawan, Kennan Reef (180 nm), Gaven Reef (205 nm) and Subi Reef (230nm).

“These are all below water at high tide. They’re not entitled to anything. No territorial sea, no EEZ. But all of these four are physically occupied by China,” Jardeleza said.

China has constructed concrete structures on the reefs including helicopter landing pads over the years since 1995 but that does not give them entitlements to the seas around it.

The other four are rocks or reefs that are, at most, entitled to only 12 nm. These are Scarborough shoal, 120 nm from Luzon, Johnson reef 180 (nm from Palawan), Cuarteron reef (240nm from Palawan) and Fiery Cross reef (255 nm from Palawan).

“The position of the Philippines is [China's] nine-dash line is invalid. It violates UNCLOS. The four reefs that are below water all the time are entitled to no rights and the four are rocks which would only have 12 nautical miles,” Jardeleza said.



Read more: http://globalnation.inquirer.net/99689/unclos-explained-why-chinas-claims-in-south-china-sea-are-invalid#ixzz2xonwBCT4 
Follow us: @inquirerdotnet on Twitter | inquirerdotnet on Facebook


----------



## BoQ77

StarCraft_ZT said:


> Don't spread lies. This is real China.
> 
> View attachment 23119
> 
> 
> Do you really think Merkel would be stupid that way?



Do you means Actually Merkel gave this map to Xi ? the Japan and China map ? 
No She did give Xi the proper China map without Senkaku islands, without Tibet, Xinjiang, without any islands of SCS ...


----------



## Nike

How about giving all the South Chinese Sea islands and islets to Indonesia, it will solve the problems between Phil and China. No Islands no Problems for you two

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Jlaw

sweetgrape said:


> Not encough, negotiating with Philippine is wasting time, Only force can solve it, get it back or not, one shot.


 
There are certain things Cpc can do to pacify the Philippines but they will not do because I think it will hurt China's economy more than Phillipines because China has trade surplus with them? CPC leadership are too greedy and lack the will to do anything too drastic.



jandk said:


> Why did you guys let so many Chinese into your country? I mean it doesn't add up. China is not on good terms with you so why? India would never allow so many Chinese to set up shop and dominate our economy. I'm curious.


 
Chinese have been trading and cultural exchanges with Philippines for centuries. It is not something that just happens overnight. In the days gone by, my ancestors were not weaklings. If the phillipines refused at that time, they would have launch a military campaign against them. What can phillipines do at that time but to oblige.


----------



## Zero_wing

favabeans said:


> Henderson Brooks Report is not official? LOL, and you are officially a retard.
> 
> 
> 
> LOL, you are just a typical retarded coward. I guess that makes you a Hindutva.



Wow thats civilized stupid arrogant jerk



Jlaw said:


> There are certain things Cpc can do to pacify the Philippines but they will not do because I think it will hurt China's economy more than Phillipines because China has trade surplus with them? CPC leadership are too greedy and lack the will to do anything too drastic.
> 
> 
> 
> Chinese have been trading and cultural exchanges with Philippines for centuries. It is not something that just happens overnight. In the days gone by, my ancestors were not weaklings. If the phillipines refused at that time, they would have launch a military campaign against them. What can phillipines do at that time but to oblige.



One we are not like taking kindgons and adding them in your own see that is how china was made made of blood of conqured people and your ancestors never claim anything this new and made up you guys were trading goods i guess they never taught you that in maoist schools so stop poluting the web with your nonsese


----------



## Zero_wing

Save your post comrade this people are morrons of the highest caliber they too brainwash and too arrogant to change its their way for centuries no point giving them a an antithesis they dont know how to responed to it in a civilized manner.


----------



## Raphael

The author mentioned that this lawsuit will fail because it is outside the jurisdiction of the UNCLOS. It's like citing the Geneva Conventions to solve a territorial dispute.

Looks like understanding international law takes a higher intellectual calibre than, say, harvesting bananas. Those who were only meant for the latter should not attempt the former




.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Jlaw

Martian2 said:


> It has always been might makes right.
> 
> How did NATO carve Kosovo from Serbia? Was it military force or at the United Nations. Hint: It wasn't the U.N.
> 
> How about Israel annexing chunk after chunk of Palestinian land? Same thing. It's Israeli military power.
> 
> How about Russian annexation of Georgian territory? Might makes right again.
> 
> How about Russian annexation of Crimea? Still military force.
> 
> How about probable Russian annexation of Ukraine? Still Russian military power.
> 
> Thus, military power has always decided territorial disputes.
> ----------
> 
> To answer your question, the territorial dispute between China and Vietnam will be decided by military force. I believe the result will be the Chinese annexation of Vietnam. I can't think of any other outcome.


 
i don't think our Vietnamese friend understand your logic. You need to ask them how they became looking like Chinese and having similar culture as Chinese.


----------



## Nan Yang

Srinivas said:


> Dude !! I am only opposing the illogical assertions of CCP here.
> 
> On what basis China is claiming SCS?? We can also draw map including parts of ASEAN nations as below based on chinese poor logic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Atleast Indians ruled over those regions unlike those islands in SCS which were never inhibited.
> 
> Add to that Chinese is a signatory of UNCLOS.
> 
> Today nation states are different from imperial kingdoms of past.
> 
> This is CCP's pure Hegemony !!




What is this...another myth ? Indian never rule over Malaysia. OK.


----------



## Viet

Martian2 said:


> It has always been might makes right.
> 
> How did NATO carve Kosovo from Serbia? Was it military force or at the United Nations. Hint: It wasn't the U.N.
> 
> How about Israel annexing chunk after chunk of Palestinian land? Same thing. It's Israeli military power.
> 
> How about Russian annexation of Georgian territory? Might makes right again.
> 
> How about Russian annexation of Crimea? Still military force.
> 
> How about probable Russian annexation of Ukraine? Still Russian military power.
> 
> Thus, military power has always decided territorial disputes.
> ----------
> 
> To answer your question, the territorial dispute between China and Vietnam will be decided by military force. I believe the result will be the Chinese annexation of Vietnam. I can't think of any other outcome.


ha ha ha ...luck for me, you are just a keyboard warrior.

actually CCP officials are too busy to loot Chinese peasants, no time to waste in thinking of invading Vietnam.


----------



## danger007

Martian2 said:


> The bottom line is that military power decides national boundaries.
> 
> UNCLOS is a waste of time.
> 
> Whoever has the military might will draw the map. It's that simple.


then there will be no difference between animals and you...that is martian law... Alexander... Nazi and British. . you have plenty examples... unless you want to dig your own grave. .. it will bring ww3... What will you do.. if your fellow neighbour.. who is powerful... occupy your home and kidnapped your family members .....


----------



## PolarAir

BoQ77 said:


> Do you means Actually Merkel gave this map to Xi ? the Japan and China map ?
> No She did give Xi the proper China map without Senkaku islands, without Tibet, Xinjiang, without any islands of SCS ...



I don't know which map she gave to Xi, and it doesn't matter at all. Anyway that's just a 18th century map. In the 9th century, China territory expands to the Aral Sea, and includes northen part of VN directly. So If Merkel happened to give Xi such a map, does that mean China will claim north half of VN?
Even a few weeks before Crimea was still a part of Ukraine, but maps have to be redone now. US and EU said they would stop RU, see what they've done.
Back to this topic, the nine dash lines, Chiang Kai-shek made those lines, maybe you should argue with him. After his KMT went to Taiwan, CCP inherited all his political decisions, including both good and bad to China. The nine dash lines are good, CCP accepted it. The independency of Mongolia is bad, CCP also accpeted it. Quite simple and that's all.
So now, yes, we claim the area within the nine dash lines. And we also claim every single inch of land and sea within CN boarder on the map which is made and published by CN nowadays.


----------



## Srinivas

Nan Yang said:


> What is this...another myth ? Indian never rule over Malaysia. OK.



Google "Chola Empire" and "Raja Raja Chola".


----------



## Götterdämmerung

Srinivas said:


> Google "Chola Empire" and "Raja Raja Chola".



The Chola never ruled anything outside of Southern India, at best they influenced what is outside of Southern India culturally.


----------



## Srinivas

Götterdämmerung said:


> The Chola never ruled anything outside of Southern India, at best they influenced what is outside of Southern India culturally.




The pink part are like vassals , they used to pay tributes to Chola emperor after they were conquered.

Rajendra Chola I - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Chola Dynasty

These guys are very good mariners with powerful navies.


----------



## Götterdämmerung

Srinivas said:


> The pink part are like vassals , they used to pay tributes to Chola emperor after they were conquered.
> 
> Rajendra Chola I - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> The Chola Dynasty
> 
> These guys are very good mariners with powerful navies.



Korea, Vietnam, Ryukyu and many other countries were Chinese vassals. Your point being?

Any way, the Cholas never claimed to represent India, heck, until today the Tamils still refuse to speak Hindi. The only thing that is related to the rest of India is Hinduism.


----------



## Srinivas

Götterdämmerung said:


> Korea, Vietnam, Ryukyu and many other countries were *Chinese* vassals. Your point being?
> 
> Any way, the Cholas never claimed to represent India, heck, until today the Tamils still refuse to speak Hindi. The only thing that is related to the rest of India is Hinduism.



Read my posts and find it yourself what my point is or simply keep quite...... with out knowing the point how are you discussing with me ??



Who are chinese at that time are they hans, manchus, Hakkas, mongoilians, Tibetans, uyghyrs or cantonese??


----------



## EastSea

PolarAir said:


> Back to this topic, the nine dash lines, Chiang Kai-shek made those lines, maybe you should argue with him. After his KMT went to Taiwan, CCP inherited all his political decisions, including both good and bad to China. The nine dash lines are good, CCP accepted it. The independency of Mongolia is bad, CCP also accpeted it. Quite simple and that's all.



KMT claim is baseless, its no good.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Götterdämmerung

Srinivas said:


> Read my posts and find it yourself what my point is or simply keep quite...... with out knowing the point how are you discussing with me ??
> 
> 
> 
> Who are chinese at that time are they hans, manchus, Hakkas, mongoilians, Tibetans, uyghyrs or cantonese??



You first said that the Chola ruled them, then you back pedaled and said that they were vassals which are two different things.

The Chinese are still made of Hans (which include Hakkas and Cantonese) and Uyghurs, Mongolians and Tibetans. AFAIK, all of them speak Mandarin beside their dialect (all the Han dialects) or language (Mongolians, Tibetans, Eyghurs, etc.).


----------



## BoQ77

PolarAir said:


> I don't know which map she gave to Xi, and it doesn't matter at all. Anyway that's just a 18th century map. In the 9th century, China territory expands to the Aral Sea, and includes northen part of VN directly. So If Merkel happened to give Xi such a map, does that mean China will claim north half of VN?
> Even a few weeks before Crimea was still a part of Ukraine, but maps have to be redone now. US and EU said they would stop RU, see what they've done.



Just focus on what they ( Western ) mean by giving Xi the map. To understand well, you must know exactly which map.
That's the main subject. 
That's similar to China make statement and showing the ADIZ ... what if Japan removed and repost another map without China ADIZ ... we would not understand what does China mean ?



> Back to this topic, the nine dash lines, Chiang Kai-shek made those lines, maybe you should argue with him. After his KMT went to Taiwan, CCP inherited all his political decisions, including both good and bad to China. The nine dash lines are good, CCP accepted it. The independency of Mongolia is bad, CCP also accpeted it. Quite simple and that's all.
> So now, yes, we claim the area within the nine dash lines. And we also claim every single inch of land and sea within CN boarder on the map which is made and published by CN nowadays.



I'm sure Chiang Kai-shek never invent those lines. An unknown navigator did that in his dream, it's not real as Christopher Colombus travel 1 round world-wide ... Do you mean after that he could draw a line separate the globe and can tell which semi-sphere belong to Spain ?


----------



## Nike

*Jakarta rejects China's 'nine-dash line'*

By Ann Marie Murphy 

In a significant policy shift, Indonesian officials on March 12 announced that China's nine-dash line map outlining its claims in the South China Sea overlaps with Indonesia's Riau province, which includes the Natuna Island chain. 

For over two decades, Indonesia has positioned itself as an independent mediator in the South China Sea disputes between its partners in the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) and China. Indonesia and China have no overlapping claims to islands. In Jakarta's view, therefore, Indonesia and China should have no disputes over waters since, under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Seas (UNCLOS), rights to waters are derived from rights to land. 

Indonesia has long pressed Beijing for reassurance on this point, but it has not been forthcoming. Indonesia's declaration that it is

indeed a party to the South China conflict with China ends the strategic ambiguity that has reigned for years, and is likely to heighten tensions on an issue that is already fraught with them. 

The South China Sea dispute became a key strategic issue between China and ASEAN in the mid-1990s. Particularly significant was China's 1994 Chinese occupation of Mischief Reef, approximately 130 miles (210 kilometers) off the coast of Palawan island and hence well within the Philippines' 200-mile exclusive economic zone (EEZ). Despite Philippine protests, China built concrete structures on the reef, and today it has a multi-story structure replete with docks, a helipad, and radar. 

Indonesia viewed the territorial disputes as a threat to key Indonesian interests in Southeast Asian stability, regional autonomy from outside hegemony, and ASEAN norms of the peaceful settlement of disputes and autonomy from outside powers. As a result, in the 1990s Indonesia began holding workshops to reduce tensions and build confidence between rival claimants. 

Ultimately, ASEAN members and China signed the 2002 Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea (DOC), which committed the signatories to the peaceful settlement of disputes, the non-use of force, and the exercise of restraint. Importantly, it called for all claimants to refrain from occupying uninhabited islands, reefs and shoals in the South China Sea. 

The 2002 Declaration, however, lacked an enforcement mechanism to ensure compliance with its principles. To remedy this problem, Indonesia has taken the lead in negotiating a legally binding code of conduct that would build on the DOC and include measures to prevent and avoid military escalations at sea. 

Indonesia's mediation efforts have always been conducted against a backdrop of strategic concern over China's intentions. Indonesia viewed China as its key external threat for much of the Cold War and "froze" diplomatic relations with Beijing between 1967 and 1990. Officials in Jakarta have long feared China's irredentist aims in the South China Sea, particularly toward its Natuna Island chain, home to one of the world's largest recoverable gas fields. Indonesian concerns have risen in tandem with China's military buildup, and its increasingly assertive use of force to assert its interests in the South China Sea. 

At stake for Indonesia is not only the Natuna Islands and surrounding waters - critical through these are - but also the sanctity of UNCLOS. Indonesia is the world's largest archipelagic state and it lacks the naval capacity to defend its far-lung archipelago, which spans 3,000 miles (4,800 kilometers) from east to west. It has therefore always been a strong advocate of UNCLOS. 

Indonesia's conception of its national territory encompasses not only its 17,000 islands, but also the waters that connect them: the Indonesian word for country is _tanah air_, literally land and water. When UNCLOS came into force in 1994, it included the archipelagic principle that granted island nations sovereignty over their internal waters. Ensuring that larger powers adhere to UNCLOS, therefore, is a key Indonesian security interest. 

In recent years, China has taken a series of actions that Indonesia perceives as undermining UNCLOS and threatening regional stability. First, there was China's 2009 publication of its nine-dash line map, which includes parts of the Natuna Island EEZ in its southernmost area. Indonesia protested China's claims to UNCLOS in 2010, and also requested that China clarify its claims - drawn freehand in 1947 - by providing precise coordinates. 

China's justification of its claims is ambiguous and, in Indonesia's view, inconsistent with UNCLOS. China's unwillingness to respond positively to Indonesia's request sent a strong signal to Jakarta that China did not appreciate what Indonesian officials viewed as restrained responses to Chinese provocations and Jakarta's efforts persuade its ASEAN partners to follow its lead. 

Second, China has recently become much more assertive in pursuing its claims and has increasingly used force to do so. Most critically from the Indonesian perspective, China has expanded its naval exercises and armed presence from its northern claims closer to mainland China down to its southern ones, where they have used force in confrontations with Indonesian maritime boats. 

In 2010, for example, after an Indonesian patrol boat captured a Chinese vessel illegally fishing within its EEZ, the Chinese dispatched the _Yuzheng 311_, a maritime enforcement vessel equipped with machine guns, light cannons, and electronic sensors. The _Yuzheng 311_ allegedly pointed a machine gun at the Indonesian patrol boat, compelling it to release the Chinese vessel. Similarly, in March 2013, Indonesian officials boarded a Chinese vessel illegally fishing in the Natuna Islands and transferred the Chinese crew to its boat to be taken ashore for legal proceedings. Before reaching land, Chinese armed vessels confronted the Indonesian boat, and demanded the release of the Chinese fisherman. Outgunned and concerned with the safety of its crew, the Indonesian officials complied. 

Indonesia has kept such incidents quiet in part due to its preference for quiet diplomacy and in part to retain its position as mediator. Indonesia had also hoped that China valued Jakarta's regional leadership role and would accommodate Indonesia's interest in the Natuna Island issue in order not to jeopardize the relationship. 

In recent months, however, China has taken a series of assertive actions that drove Indonesia toward its public announcement. China imposed an Air Defense Identification Zone over the East China Sea and stated it will impose one in the South China Sea after appropriate preparations have been made. Beijing declared a unilateral fishing ban around Hainan Island that encompasses almost 57% of the South China Sea. It sent China's aircraft carrier, the _Liaoning_, on a mission in the South China Sea where it stormed Mischief Reef and declared indisputable sovereignty over James Shoal, only 50?miles, or 80 kilometers, off the coast of Malaysia. Currently, China is interfering with Philippine efforts to resupply its marines in Second Thomas Shoal. 

Indonesia's pubic declaration of its conflict with China has been accompanied by statements of Indonesia's intention to bolster its military capacity in the Natuna Islands. General Moeldoko, the head of Indonesia's military, stated that Indonesia would beef up its military presence in the area, adding one army battalion and additional fighter jets while also enhancing its naval presence. Indonesia's efforts to strengthen its presence in the Natunas come as Jakarta has increased its defense budget by double digits in recent years, targeting much of the increased spending for maritime security. 

Indonesia's public declaration that it has a maritime conflict with China is a potential game changer in the game being played out in the South China Sea. With Indonesia officially contesting China's claim, the strategic ambiguity that had allowed Indonesia to position itself as a mediator between China and its ASEAN partners has been lost. Precisely how events will unfold cannot be predicted. Tensions in the South China Sea are likely to rise further. 

_*Ann Marie Murphy* (Annmarie.murphy@shu.edu) is Associate Professor, School of Diplomacy and International Relations, Seton Hall University; Senior Research Fellow, Weatherhead East Asian Institute, Columbia University; and Associate Fellow, the Asia Society_. 

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/SEA-01-030414.html


Indonesia will do everything to defend her soverignty


----------



## Nike

*Jakarta rejects China's 'nine-dash line'*

By Ann Marie Murphy 

In a significant policy shift, Indonesian officials on March 12 announced that China's nine-dash line map outlining its claims in the South China Sea overlaps with Indonesia's Riau province, which includes the Natuna Island chain. 

For over two decades, Indonesia has positioned itself as an independent mediator in the South China Sea disputes between its partners in the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) and China. Indonesia and China have no overlapping claims to islands. In Jakarta's view, therefore, Indonesia and China should have no disputes over waters since, under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Seas (UNCLOS), rights to waters are derived from rights to land. 

Indonesia has long pressed Beijing for reassurance on this point, but it has not been forthcoming. Indonesia's declaration that it is

indeed a party to the South China conflict with China ends the strategic ambiguity that has reigned for years, and is likely to heighten tensions on an issue that is already fraught with them. 

The South China Sea dispute became a key strategic issue between China and ASEAN in the mid-1990s. Particularly significant was China's 1994 Chinese occupation of Mischief Reef, approximately 130 miles (210 kilometers) off the coast of Palawan island and hence well within the Philippines' 200-mile exclusive economic zone (EEZ). Despite Philippine protests, China built concrete structures on the reef, and today it has a multi-story structure replete with docks, a helipad, and radar. 

Indonesia viewed the territorial disputes as a threat to key Indonesian interests in Southeast Asian stability, regional autonomy from outside hegemony, and ASEAN norms of the peaceful settlement of disputes and autonomy from outside powers. As a result, in the 1990s Indonesia began holding workshops to reduce tensions and build confidence between rival claimants. 

Ultimately, ASEAN members and China signed the 2002 Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea (DOC), which committed the signatories to the peaceful settlement of disputes, the non-use of force, and the exercise of restraint. Importantly, it called for all claimants to refrain from occupying uninhabited islands, reefs and shoals in the South China Sea. 

The 2002 Declaration, however, lacked an enforcement mechanism to ensure compliance with its principles. To remedy this problem, Indonesia has taken the lead in negotiating a legally binding code of conduct that would build on the DOC and include measures to prevent and avoid military escalations at sea. 

Indonesia's mediation efforts have always been conducted against a backdrop of strategic concern over China's intentions. Indonesia viewed China as its key external threat for much of the Cold War and "froze" diplomatic relations with Beijing between 1967 and 1990. Officials in Jakarta have long feared China's irredentist aims in the South China Sea, particularly toward its Natuna Island chain, home to one of the world's largest recoverable gas fields. Indonesian concerns have risen in tandem with China's military buildup, and its increasingly assertive use of force to assert its interests in the South China Sea. 

At stake for Indonesia is not only the Natuna Islands and surrounding waters - critical through these are - but also the sanctity of UNCLOS. Indonesia is the world's largest archipelagic state and it lacks the naval capacity to defend its far-lung archipelago, which spans 3,000 miles (4,800 kilometers) from east to west. It has therefore always been a strong advocate of UNCLOS. 

Indonesia's conception of its national territory encompasses not only its 17,000 islands, but also the waters that connect them: the Indonesian word for country is _tanah air_, literally land and water. When UNCLOS came into force in 1994, it included the archipelagic principle that granted island nations sovereignty over their internal waters. Ensuring that larger powers adhere to UNCLOS, therefore, is a key Indonesian security interest. 

In recent years, China has taken a series of actions that Indonesia perceives as undermining UNCLOS and threatening regional stability. First, there was China's 2009 publication of its nine-dash line map, which includes parts of the Natuna Island EEZ in its southernmost area. Indonesia protested China's claims to UNCLOS in 2010, and also requested that China clarify its claims - drawn freehand in 1947 - by providing precise coordinates. 

China's justification of its claims is ambiguous and, in Indonesia's view, inconsistent with UNCLOS. China's unwillingness to respond positively to Indonesia's request sent a strong signal to Jakarta that China did not appreciate what Indonesian officials viewed as restrained responses to Chinese provocations and Jakarta's efforts persuade its ASEAN partners to follow its lead. 

Second, China has recently become much more assertive in pursuing its claims and has increasingly used force to do so. Most critically from the Indonesian perspective, China has expanded its naval exercises and armed presence from its northern claims closer to mainland China down to its southern ones, where they have used force in confrontations with Indonesian maritime boats. 

In 2010, for example, after an Indonesian patrol boat captured a Chinese vessel illegally fishing within its EEZ, the Chinese dispatched the _Yuzheng 311_, a maritime enforcement vessel equipped with machine guns, light cannons, and electronic sensors. The _Yuzheng 311_ allegedly pointed a machine gun at the Indonesian patrol boat, compelling it to release the Chinese vessel. Similarly, in March 2013, Indonesian officials boarded a Chinese vessel illegally fishing in the Natuna Islands and transferred the Chinese crew to its boat to be taken ashore for legal proceedings. Before reaching land, Chinese armed vessels confronted the Indonesian boat, and demanded the release of the Chinese fisherman. Outgunned and concerned with the safety of its crew, the Indonesian officials complied. 

Indonesia has kept such incidents quiet in part due to its preference for quiet diplomacy and in part to retain its position as mediator. Indonesia had also hoped that China valued Jakarta's regional leadership role and would accommodate Indonesia's interest in the Natuna Island issue in order not to jeopardize the relationship. 

In recent months, however, China has taken a series of assertive actions that drove Indonesia toward its public announcement. China imposed an Air Defense Identification Zone over the East China Sea and stated it will impose one in the South China Sea after appropriate preparations have been made. Beijing declared a unilateral fishing ban around Hainan Island that encompasses almost 57% of the South China Sea. It sent China's aircraft carrier, the _Liaoning_, on a mission in the South China Sea where it stormed Mischief Reef and declared indisputable sovereignty over James Shoal, only 50?miles, or 80 kilometers, off the coast of Malaysia. Currently, China is interfering with Philippine efforts to resupply its marines in Second Thomas Shoal. 

Indonesia's pubic declaration of its conflict with China has been accompanied by statements of Indonesia's intention to bolster its military capacity in the Natuna Islands. General Moeldoko, the head of Indonesia's military, stated that Indonesia would beef up its military presence in the area, adding one army battalion and additional fighter jets while also enhancing its naval presence. Indonesia's efforts to strengthen its presence in the Natunas come as Jakarta has increased its defense budget by double digits in recent years, targeting much of the increased spending for maritime security. 

Indonesia's public declaration that it has a maritime conflict with China is a potential game changer in the game being played out in the South China Sea. With Indonesia officially contesting China's claim, the strategic ambiguity that had allowed Indonesia to position itself as a mediator between China and its ASEAN partners has been lost. Precisely how events will unfold cannot be predicted. Tensions in the South China Sea are likely to rise further. 

_*Ann Marie Murphy* (Annmarie.murphy@shu.edu) is Associate Professor, School of Diplomacy and International Relations, Seton Hall University; Senior Research Fellow, Weatherhead East Asian Institute, Columbia University; and Associate Fellow, the Asia Society_. 

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/SEA-01-030414.html


Indonesia will do everything to defend her soverignty


----------



## SirHatesALot

Only people with High IQ can understand 9-dash line unfortunately i have very low IQ


----------



## Nike

*Indonesia to station Su-27, Su-30s on South China Sea islands*

*






The Indonesian Air Force (Tentera Nasional Indonesia - Angkatan Udara, TNI-AU) is planning to upgrade its airbase at Ranai on Riau Island so it can be used by Sukhoi Su-27 and Su-30 fighter aircraft, the base's commander said on 27 March.

Lieutenant Colonel Andri Gandy also revealed that upgrade work had recently been completed at the airbase, including the installation of runway lights, taxiway lights and integrated radar. The TNI-AU also plans to extend the length of the runway, which is currently 2.5 km long.

The new facilities will include hangars on the western part of the airbase and are being installed with the long-term goal of permanently deploying a squadron of Sukhoi fighter aircraft on the Natuna Islands.

The TNI-AU operates a mix of Su-27SK and Su-30MKs, with additional orders expected. The aircraft would join four Boeing AH-64E Apache attack helicopters - a deployment that was separately announced on the same day by Indonesian Army (TNI-AD) Chief of Staff General Budiman.

Fajru Zaini, Indonesia's deputy coordinating minister for politics, law and peace, described the prospective Sukhoi deployment to Natuna as being a part of Jakarta's aim to develop a 'Minimum Essential Force (MEF)'. The concept, introduced by President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono in 2005, aims to establish the nature and minimum scale of military capabilities that Indonesia should seek to deploy in response to a strategic threat.

On 28 February IHS Jane's reported on Indonesian Armed Forces plans to expand its presence in the area as a counter to instability in the South China Sea. The Natuna Islands, with a total land area of 2,631 km 2 , sit on Indonesia's maritime borders with Brunei, Malaysia, and Vietnam at the southern tip of the South China Sea.

Although Indonesia is not involved in the ongoing territorial disputes in the South China Sea over the Paracel and Spratly islands, Beijing's declared 'nine-dashed-line' overlaps with Jakarta's claim to an exclusive economic zone (EEZ) in the Natuna Islands region. The Natuna Sea has one of the world's largest gas fields, containing an estimated 46 trillion ft 3 (1.3 trillion m 3 ) of natural gas and condensates. The nine-dashed line is a demarcation used by China to define its claims to parts of the South China Sea.

Indonesia to station Su-27, Su-30s on South China Sea islands - IHS Jane's 360*

*Indonesia to deploy four Apache helicopters on Natuna Islands, begins pilot training*
_Ridzwan Rahmat, Singapore - IHS Jane's Navy International




Jakarta will deploy half its incoming fleet of Boeing AH-64E Apache attack helicopters on the Natuna Islands. The matter was revealed by Indonesian Army (TNI-AD) Chief of Staff General Budiman during his visit to an army base in Semarang, Central Java on 27 March.

Indonesia is currently awaiting the delivery of eight Apache attack helicopters purchased from the US in 2013 for USD500 million. Though the aircraft are scheduled to arrive in 2017, Gen Budiman indicated that TNI-AD has already begun pilot training.

With half the Apache fleet to be deployed on the Natuna Islands, the remaining four aircraft will be stationed at an undisclosed location in Jakarta.

The Natuna Islands sit on Indonesia's maritime borders with Brunei, Malaysia, and Vietnam at the southern tip of the South China Sea. Although Indonesia is not among the states disputing ownership of South China Sea islands, Beijing's 'nine-dotted-line' claim overlaps with Jakarta's push for its exclusive economic zone (EEZ) in the Natuna Islands region.

IHS Jane's reported on 28 February 2014 that the Indonesian Navy (TNI-AL) will deploy additional assets in waters off the Natuna Islands in Riau province as a pre-emptive measure against instability in the South China Sea._
_
Indonesia to deploy four Apache helicopters on Natuna Islands, begins pilot training - IHS Jane's 360_


----------



## Indos

China should leave its claim, if they are quite clever...........Not very realistic to achieve in any way. It also can damage our relationship.


----------



## Nike

craps, i've made double thread, @Aeronaut or someone else please close one of my thread


----------



## Zero_wing

Jlaw said:


> Many Chinese agree with cutting ties with Phillipines



Then it will be great day for the Philippines no more trash



xunzi said:


> Ask your Daddy UNITED STATES OF AMERICA that question.



Typical chinese imperial $c^m if you have nothing to say shut the hell up


----------



## bolo

Indos said:


> China should leave its claim, if they are quite clever...........Not very realistic to achieve in any way. It also can damage our relationship.


 
You guys can have relationship with your Australian friends.


----------



## Indos

bolo said:


> You guys can have relationship with your Australian friends.



I think we can join a very big club with Japan, South Korea, SEA nations, USA, and still can have closed ties with Russia. Don't forget that we still have big stake in the Muslim world, never tried to use it before...

But I hope China leadership understand well that they can be cornered so badly once Indonesia joins that club...


----------



## bolo

Indos said:


> I think we can join a very big club with Japan, South Korea, SEA nations, USA, and still can have closed ties with Russia. Don't forget that we still have big stake in the Muslim world, never tried to use it before...
> 
> But I hope China leadership understand well that they can be cornered so badly once Indonesia joins that club...


 Out of those countries you mentioned, only US and russia is relevant but they are not fools that will allow you guys to play them. US and Russia are not exactly pro Muslim.


----------



## Indos

bolo said:


> Out of those countries you mentioned, only US and russia is relevant but they are not fools that will allow you guys to play them. *US and Russia are not exactly pro Muslim.*



In international politics, many interest play.....religion can be played only for certain context.
For example, Muslim nations were with USA during cold war. USA helped Islamist agenda during Afghan war by sending money and weapons. USA was backing our invasion into East Timor event though we both know that East Timor is a Christian country in the old days. 

You need to learn and read more before talking to me ....


----------



## Snomannen

So Indonesia decided to join the US side then.




Indos said:


> In international politics, many interest play.....religion can be played only for certain context.
> For example, Muslim nations were with USA during cold war. USA helped Islamist agenda during Afghan war by sending money and weapons. *USA was backing our invasion into East Timor event though we both know that East Timor is a Christian country in the old days. *
> 
> You need to learn and read more before talking to me ....



All hail the USA, the light tower of all mankind


----------



## cnleio

It's normal that Indonesia has their own national interests in South China Sea, for the oil / mine / maritime safety.

The interesting thing is Both China and Indonesia from North and South of SCS to compete with other ASEAN nations in this complicated waters, Even Jakarta rejected China's claim in SCS they still hard to directly dispute with China before to face Malaysia, Vietnam and Philippines.

That "nine-dash line" was drawn by human, if China could get a trustful & powerful helper who stay the same side with us in SCS disputes, "nine-dash line" can change to a satisfactory size, good for both sides.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

KirovAirship said:


> So Indonesia decided to join the US side then.
> All hail the USA, the light tower of all mankind



Nope, we are still in the wait and see position.......Hoping China make a good move.


----------



## Zero_wing

cnleio said:


> It's normal that Indonesia has their own national interests in South China Sea, for the oil / mine / maritime safety.
> 
> The interesting thing is Both China and Indonesia from North and South of SCS to compete with other ASEAN nations in this complicated waters, Even Jakarta rejected China's claim in SCS they still hard to directly dispute with China before to face Malaysia, Vietnam and Philippines.
> 
> That "nine-dash line" was drawn by human, if China could get a trustful & powerful helper who stay the same side with us in SCS disputes, "nine-dash line" can change to a satisfactory size, good for both sides.



You mean only good for china and F everyone else just file your evidnece and present your case otherwise good luck being international outlaw


----------



## cnleio

Zero_wing said:


> You mean only good for china and F everyone else just file your evidnece and present your case otherwise good luck being international outlaw


For China, the solution is to make use of disputes between ASEAN nations. Yes, not only one nation has the dispute with China in SCS, eath other has the same problem. To support one nation's interest in SCS as China's helper, it's good for us.

Anyway "nine-dash line" still be there and China ships still patrolling in waters, but we can leave back door for some nation who willing to work together with Chinese.


----------



## Viet

madokafc said:


> *Indonesia to station Su-27, Su-30s on South China Sea islands*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Indonesian Air Force (Tentera Nasional Indonesia - Angkatan Udara, TNI-AU) is planning to upgrade its airbase at Ranai on Riau Island so it can be used by Sukhoi Su-27 and Su-30 fighter aircraft, the base's commander said on 27 March.
> 
> Lieutenant Colonel Andri Gandy also revealed that upgrade work had recently been completed at the airbase, including the installation of runway lights, taxiway lights and integrated radar. The TNI-AU also plans to extend the length of the runway, which is currently 2.5 km long.
> 
> The new facilities will include hangars on the western part of the airbase and are being installed with the long-term goal of permanently deploying a squadron of Sukhoi fighter aircraft on the Natuna Islands.
> 
> The TNI-AU operates a mix of Su-27SK and Su-30MKs, with additional orders expected. The aircraft would join four Boeing AH-64E Apache attack helicopters - a deployment that was separately announced on the same day by Indonesian Army (TNI-AD) Chief of Staff General Budiman.
> 
> Fajru Zaini, Indonesia's deputy coordinating minister for politics, law and peace, described the prospective Sukhoi deployment to Natuna as being a part of Jakarta's aim to develop a 'Minimum Essential Force (MEF)'. The concept, introduced by President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono in 2005, aims to establish the nature and minimum scale of military capabilities that Indonesia should seek to deploy in response to a strategic threat.
> 
> On 28 February IHS Jane's reported on Indonesian Armed Forces plans to expand its presence in the area as a counter to instability in the South China Sea. The Natuna Islands, with a total land area of 2,631 km 2 , sit on Indonesia's maritime borders with Brunei, Malaysia, and Vietnam at the southern tip of the South China Sea.
> 
> Although Indonesia is not involved in the ongoing territorial disputes in the South China Sea over the Paracel and Spratly islands, Beijing's declared 'nine-dashed-line' overlaps with Jakarta's claim to an exclusive economic zone (EEZ) in the Natuna Islands region. The Natuna Sea has one of the world's largest gas fields, containing an estimated 46 trillion ft 3 (1.3 trillion m 3 ) of natural gas and condensates. The nine-dashed line is a demarcation used by China to define its claims to parts of the South China Sea.
> 
> Indonesia to station Su-27, Su-30s on South China Sea islands - IHS Jane's 360*
> 
> *Indonesia to deploy four Apache helicopters on Natuna Islands, begins pilot training*
> _Ridzwan Rahmat, Singapore - IHS Jane's Navy International
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jakarta will deploy half its incoming fleet of Boeing AH-64E Apache attack helicopters on the Natuna Islands. The matter was revealed by Indonesian Army (TNI-AD) Chief of Staff General Budiman during his visit to an army base in Semarang, Central Java on 27 March.
> 
> Indonesia is currently awaiting the delivery of eight Apache attack helicopters purchased from the US in 2013 for USD500 million. Though the aircraft are scheduled to arrive in 2017, Gen Budiman indicated that TNI-AD has already begun pilot training.
> 
> With half the Apache fleet to be deployed on the Natuna Islands, the remaining four aircraft will be stationed at an undisclosed location in Jakarta.
> 
> The Natuna Islands sit on Indonesia's maritime borders with Brunei, Malaysia, and Vietnam at the southern tip of the South China Sea. Although Indonesia is not among the states disputing ownership of South China Sea islands, Beijing's 'nine-dotted-line' claim overlaps with Jakarta's push for its exclusive economic zone (EEZ) in the Natuna Islands region.
> 
> IHS Jane's reported on 28 February 2014 that the Indonesian Navy (TNI-AL) will deploy additional assets in waters off the Natuna Islands in Riau province as a pre-emptive measure against instability in the South China Sea.
> Indonesia to deploy four Apache helicopters on Natuna Islands, begins pilot training - IHS Jane's 360_


welcome to the club!

we will soon have more ships and subs than sharks in the SC Sea.



madokafc said:


> craps, i've made double thread, @Aeronaut or someone else please close one of my thread


you can try to delete it.


----------



## Nike

Viet said:


> welcome to the club!
> 
> we will soon have more ships and subs than sharks in the SC Sea.
> 
> 
> you can try to delete it.



for ships, i think we are getting new 3 Frigate this year and about 10 more patrol and missile ships and 2 more Frigates in 2016

for Subs, we must patiently wait till 2017 to get three more subs the acquisition for Submarine programme in Indonesia is too slow compare yours even though we already setting the target to acquire at least 12 subs before 2024 

for patrol aircraft, we already planned to acquire at least 24 CN-235 MPA/ASW aircraft, not many but handful i think and around 2 to 3 units will be stationed in Natuna islands respectively

for fighter air craft, the most probably contender in acquisition progress to be placed in Natuna islands is one squadron Su-35BM or Jas-39 Gripen E

well just wait the news following after our General Elections, every political constellation can be changed upon the result of our elections. If PDI-P win the elections, probably they will bring Indonesia get closer to China and keep a distance against US and friends. If it is Demokrat Party (Indonesia ruling party right now) and their coalitions get the upper hand probably they will bring Indonesia get much closer to US, and in recent polls PDI-P got the upper hands against Demokrat Party. Just for your attention, PDI-P is very close with China links and they are very loyal to military procurement, unlike Demokrat.


----------



## ViXuyen

Welcome to the conflict, Indonesia. I guess Indonesia is beginning to feel the heat from the chicom encroachment of its territory. 

As for the Phillipines, I think those $500+ millions that they spend on the T-50 jets should have been used to buy offshore patrol vessels instead. You need vessels to be on patrol frequently to exert your sovereignty over your territory. If you neglect your frequent present over your territory for a long period of time and someone encroaches on your territory, your sovereignty will diminish


----------



## Nishan_101

madokafc said:


> *Indonesia to station Su-27, Su-30s on South China Sea islands*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Indonesian Air Force (Tentera Nasional Indonesia - Angkatan Udara, TNI-AU) is planning to upgrade its airbase at Ranai on Riau Island so it can be used by Sukhoi Su-27 and Su-30 fighter aircraft, the base's commander said on 27 March.
> 
> Lieutenant Colonel Andri Gandy also revealed that upgrade work had recently been completed at the airbase, including the installation of runway lights, taxiway lights and integrated radar. The TNI-AU also plans to extend the length of the runway, which is currently 2.5 km long.
> 
> The new facilities will include hangars on the western part of the airbase and are being installed with the long-term goal of permanently deploying a squadron of Sukhoi fighter aircraft on the Natuna Islands.
> 
> The TNI-AU operates a mix of Su-27SK and Su-30MKs, with additional orders expected. The aircraft would join four Boeing AH-64E Apache attack helicopters - a deployment that was separately announced on the same day by Indonesian Army (TNI-AD) Chief of Staff General Budiman.
> 
> Fajru Zaini, Indonesia's deputy coordinating minister for politics, law and peace, described the prospective Sukhoi deployment to Natuna as being a part of Jakarta's aim to develop a 'Minimum Essential Force (MEF)'. The concept, introduced by President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono in 2005, aims to establish the nature and minimum scale of military capabilities that Indonesia should seek to deploy in response to a strategic threat.
> 
> On 28 February IHS Jane's reported on Indonesian Armed Forces plans to expand its presence in the area as a counter to instability in the South China Sea. The Natuna Islands, with a total land area of 2,631 km 2 , sit on Indonesia's maritime borders with Brunei, Malaysia, and Vietnam at the southern tip of the South China Sea.
> 
> Although Indonesia is not involved in the ongoing territorial disputes in the South China Sea over the Paracel and Spratly islands, Beijing's declared 'nine-dashed-line' overlaps with Jakarta's claim to an exclusive economic zone (EEZ) in the Natuna Islands region. The Natuna Sea has one of the world's largest gas fields, containing an estimated 46 trillion ft 3 (1.3 trillion m 3 ) of natural gas and condensates. The nine-dashed line is a demarcation used by China to define its claims to parts of the South China Sea.
> 
> Indonesia to station Su-27, Su-30s on South China Sea islands - IHS Jane's 360*
> 
> *Indonesia to deploy four Apache helicopters on Natuna Islands, begins pilot training*
> _Ridzwan Rahmat, Singapore - IHS Jane's Navy International
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jakarta will deploy half its incoming fleet of Boeing AH-64E Apache attack helicopters on the Natuna Islands. The matter was revealed by Indonesian Army (TNI-AD) Chief of Staff General Budiman during his visit to an army base in Semarang, Central Java on 27 March.
> 
> Indonesia is currently awaiting the delivery of eight Apache attack helicopters purchased from the US in 2013 for USD500 million. Though the aircraft are scheduled to arrive in 2017, Gen Budiman indicated that TNI-AD has already begun pilot training.
> 
> With half the Apache fleet to be deployed on the Natuna Islands, the remaining four aircraft will be stationed at an undisclosed location in Jakarta.
> 
> The Natuna Islands sit on Indonesia's maritime borders with Brunei, Malaysia, and Vietnam at the southern tip of the South China Sea. Although Indonesia is not among the states disputing ownership of South China Sea islands, Beijing's 'nine-dotted-line' claim overlaps with Jakarta's push for its exclusive economic zone (EEZ) in the Natuna Islands region.
> 
> IHS Jane's reported on 28 February 2014 that the Indonesian Navy (TNI-AL) will deploy additional assets in waters off the Natuna Islands in Riau province as a pre-emptive measure against instability in the South China Sea.
> Indonesia to deploy four Apache helicopters on Natuna Islands, begins pilot training - IHS Jane's 360_



Why not Indonesia and Malaysia buys 70 JF-17s Block-II(later 70-110 JF-17 Block-IIIs) and about 50 K-8s and 50 Super Mushak along with some UAVs from Pakistan which are cheaper to operate.... And sell their equipment to other countries.


----------



## Viet

madokafc said:


> for ships, i think we are getting new 3 Frigate this year and about 10 more patrol and missile ships and 2 more Frigates in 2016
> 
> for Subs, we must patiently wait till 2017 to get three more subs the acquisition for Submarine programme in Indonesia is too slow compare yours even though we already setting the target to acquire at least 12 subs before 2024
> 
> for patrol aircraft, we already planned to acquire at least 24 CN-235 MPA/ASW aircraft, not many but handful i think and around 2 to 3 units will be stationed in Natuna islands respectively
> 
> for fighter air craft, the most probably contender in acquisition progress to be placed in Natuna islands is one squadron Su-35BM or Jas-39 Gripen E
> 
> well just wait the news following after our General Elections, every political constellation can be changed upon the result of our elections. If PDI-P win the elections, probably they will bring Indonesia get closer to China and keep a distance against US and friends. If it is Demokrat Party (Indonesia ruling party right now) and their coalitions get the upper hand probably they will bring Indonesia get much closer to US, and in recent polls PDI-P got the upper hands against Demokrat Party. Just for your attention, PDI-P is very close with China links and they are very loyal to military procurement, unlike Demokrat.


Unlike the Philippines, Indonesia is a military force to be reckoned with.


----------



## Nike

Nishan_101 said:


> Why not Indonesia and Malaysia buys 70 JF-17s Block-II(later 70-110 JF-17 Block-IIIs) and about 50 K-8s and 50 Super Mushak along with some UAVs from Pakistan *which are cheaper to operate*.... And sell their equipment to other countries.




for what i bolded

I think we can't compare operational cost those equipment's without actual data released from the user 

but i am agree in the acquisition of JF-17, Pakistan several years back has offer us to produce JF-17 at our aviation industries facilities, but the China expressing their concern about the possibility of the deal and they block it. Well, Indonesia still a threat in the eyes of Chinese with all of our ambiguity regarding South Chinese Sea issue at the times. And their judge is proved to be right, i am afraid. With all of our army and Air forces generals and Marsekal and institutions tend to dislike China and her ambitions in South Chinese sea.



Viet said:


> Unlike the Philippines, Indonesia is a military force to be reckoned with.



still a low rank middle power, even cannot be compare to Vietnam or Singapore right now

if we got a more deterrence military muscles likes the South Korean or Turkiye has right now, i think the Chinese must think twice before touch our Natuna islands and water surrounding her, but it is still a dream we are currently trying to reach it right now.


----------



## Viet

madokafc said:


> still a low rank middle power, even cannot be compare to Vietnam or Singapore right now
> 
> if we got a more deterrence military muscles likes the South Korean or Turkiye has right now, i think the Chinese must think twice before touch our Natuna islands and water surrounding her, but it is still a dream we are currently trying to reach it right now.


all takes time to get Indonesia army to become a formidable opponent. even right now China can´t push you over as they please.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zero_wing

cnleio said:


> For China, the solution is to make use of disputes between ASEAN nations. Yes, not only one nation has the dispute with China in SCS, eath other has the same problem. To support one nation's interest in SCS as China's helper, it's good for us.
> 
> Anyway "nine-dash line" still be there and China ships still patrolling in waters, but we can leave back door for some nation who willing to work together with Chinese.



Its illegal and illogical now the burnden is for country to prove your claims



ViXuyen said:


> Welcome to the conflict, Indonesia. I guess Indonesia is beginning to feel the heat from the chicom encroachment of its territory.
> 
> As for the Phillipines, I think those $500+ millions that they spend on the T-50 jets should have been used to buy offshore patrol vessels instead. You need vessels to be on patrol frequently to exert your sovereignty over your territory. If you neglect your frequent present over your territory for a long period of time and someone encroaches on your territory, your sovereignty will diminish



Its not the T50 its FA50 the Light Combat Aircraft simillar to the Old F5 fighter we once have to different things


----------



## BoQ77

*Why there is no ‘new maritime dispute’ between Indonesia and China*
April 2, 2014 / Evan A. Laksmana
In the last two weeks, there have been reports circulating that Indonesia is now officially standing up against China’s claims in the South China Sea.

Two days ago, Ann Marie Murphy wrote for the Pacific Forum PacNet newsletter that “Indonesia formally announces its dispute with China in the South China Sea”. She claims that, “Indonesian officials on March 12, 2014 announced that China’s nine-dash line map outlining its claim in the South China Sea overlaps with Indonesia’s Riau province, which includes the Natuna Island chain,” in a sign of a “significant policy shift.”

As she did not provide the source of this announcement, I can only speculate or assume that the source came from a piece authored by Zachary Keck _The Diplomat_ ran a few weeks ago claiming that China has started a new “maritime dispute” with Indonesia.

Keck used a news report that cited Indonesian navy commodore Fahru Zaini, an assistant to the first deputy of the Coordinating Minister for Political, Legal, and Security Affairs (_Menkopolhukam_):

China has claimed Natuna waters as their territorial waters. This arbitrary claim is related to the dispute over Spratly and Paracel Islands between China and the Philippines. This dispute will have a large impact on the security of Natuna waters…[because] China has drawn the sea map of Natuna Islands in the South China Sea in its territorial map with nine dash lines.

Others have also picked up on his statement (see _The Jakarta Globe_, for example).

This alleged ‘dispute’ then is somehow seen as potentially problematic because, as Keck also suggested, Indonesia is beefing up its military presence and infrastructure in the area.

The overall impression therefore is that Indonesia’s defense modernization and deployment plans are somehow driven by China’s assertiveness in the South China Sea, and that now Jakarta has officially staked out its policy to challenge Beijing.

This impression is false for several reasons.

First, there is *no* maritime ‘dispute’ between Indonesia and China. Following the statement by Zaini, Indonesian foreign ministry spokesman Michael Tene said that “Indonesia has no maritime border with China” and that Indonesia is not a claimant state to the South China Sea dispute. Indeed, *Foreign Minister Marty Natalegawa clarified further on March 19,*

We have to be absolutely clear about this…There are three seemingly related but separate issues. Firstly, there is no territorial dispute between Indonesia and China, especially about the Natunas. In fact, we are cooperating with China in possibly bringing about foreign direct investment plans in the Natunas. Second, we are not a claimant state in the South China Sea. Third, on the nine-dash line, it is true that we do not accept that. This is why we have asked for a formal explanation from China regarding their claims’ legal basis and background

This policy is of course not new. Jakarta has officially lodged a complaint to the UN a few years ago regarding the nine-dash line. In fact, Indonesia has consistently argued for the importance of the Natunas and how we should handle the South China Sea since the mid-1990s, including the management of the Workshop on Managing Potential Conflict in the South China Sea. 

I have argued for Jakarta’s interest in the Natunas in 2011 for _The Diplomat_ too. Daniel Novotny’s book has a long list of quotations from various levels of Indonesia’s defense and foreign policymakers since the 1990s that basically echoed Zaini’s sentiments: Indonesia is concerned that the Natunas could be endangered by China’s nine-dash line, but we will never officially admit a dispute with China because that would give credence to Beijing’s claims.

As the great late Ali Alatas once said about the matter, “the repetition of an untruth will eventually make it appear as truth”. In short, there is no significant policy shift on the matter.

I would add a caveat however that the status quo between China and Indonesia over the Natunas will remain until the day Beijing challenges Indonesia’s rights to explore the natural resources within our EEZs.

Second, on the military buildup that analysts are concerned about. The Natuna area has been a central feature in Indonesia’s external defense thinking since the 1990s. The largest ever tri-service military exercise under Suharto’s tenure in 1996 was based on a scenario in the Natuna islands. This has been the pattern for subsequent exercises since; though there is an additional “Ambalat component” to it recently.

The statements that the TNI leadership has been making lately about “flashpoint defense” and how the Natunas is a part of it, and how our latest military assets would be deployed in the area, should be taken with a grain of salt.

For one thing, the flashpoint defense (and the role of the Natunas in it) and the military modernization plans have been on the books since early to mid-2000s. In fact, I described the TNI’s planned flashpoint-based defense in a 2011 paper that included the Natunas (under Riau and Riau islands) based on a 2010 MoD document (formulated since mid-2000s). Here’s a snapshot of the flashpoint scenario:





For another, the procurement of advanced platforms like the Sukhois and Leopard MBTs and others is part of the Minimum Essential Force (MEF) concept that has been around since mid-2000s. The MEF was designed less for a China threat and more for an organizational and technological revamp (the TNI lost numerous men due to accidents and platform decay in the past decade).

The current political climate however does provide the TNI leadership with the opportunity to further push for their pre-existing plans and deflect criticisms from civil society activists arguing against expensive weaponry. So again, no. Indonesia is *not* building up its military power against a resurgent China.

Finally, we can speculate whether Zaini was speaking for the Indonesian government. The clarification from the Foreign Ministry however suggest that he wasn’t. Does this mean that Zaini was speaking for the TNI? One of my contacts close with the defense establishment in Jakarta suggest this isn’t the case too. The TNI HQ has not been making any significant change or drastic plans regarding the Natunas and South China Sea for now.

We should also consider the fact that the Coordinating Ministry for Political, Legal, and Security Affairs is not a decision making body like the Ministry of Defense. They coordinate policies, not formally make them.

So why Zaini made the arguments is less clear. But what is clearer I think is: (1) he was not authoritatively tasked with announcing a major policy shift (nor is there a policy shift in the first place), and (2) he was merely echoing a long-held pre-existing sentiments within Indonesia’s policymakers since the 1990s.

Overall therefore, these three points alone should tell us that _The Diplomat_ piece and others who followed it may have taken things out of their proper context.​

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

The newly purchase of Indonesia show that they would use their muscles to face China
They pursue some Kilo-class submarines too

The 4th Kilo-class submarine launches on March for Vietnam
2 first kilo sub commissioned in Vietnam Navy


----------



## The Sultan Erdogan

China is in East Asia, Indonesia is in South East Asia. 

The distance between them is huge. 

Why this 'conflict' then?

How big is 'South China Sea' man?


----------



## BoQ77

The root cause for all conflict is the China dashed line newly published ... claim all inside red dotted line.






A Taiwanese sailor man has nothing to play, then he made marking onto a printed map, then by accident, the govt found it and claim something like Columbus found the America continental ... ( the govt, wrong , same to Columbus is wrong ... )

The sea and continental under other ownership

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## The Sultan Erdogan

BoQ77 said:


> The root cause for all conflict is the China dashed line newly published ... claim all inside red dotted line.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Taiwanese sailor man has nothing to play, then he made marking onto a printed map, then by accident, the govt found it and claim something like Columbus found the America continental ... ( the govt, wrong , same to Columbus is wrong ... )
> 
> The sea and continental under other ownership



Seriously?!

This is crazy. How can China claim all of this ocean as her "territorial waters"?

@Chinese-Dragon Is is true? How does China justify her this approach?

Territorial waters are defined under International Law...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

The Sultan Erdogan said:


> Seriously?!
> 
> This is crazy. How can China claim all of this ocean as her "territorial waters"?
> 
> @Chinese-Dragon Is is true? How does China justify her this approach?
> 
> Territorial waters are defined under International Law...



Then the whole world know that One of Big Four country violated the International Laws several times.

They would do so because their neighbor seem to be weaker ...
The world must assist to strengthen China neighbor ... then China would be isolated

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

The Sultan Erdogan said:


> Seriously?!
> 
> This is crazy. How can China claim all of this ocean as her "territorial waters"?
> 
> @Chinese-Dragon Is is true? How does China justify her this approach?
> 
> Territorial waters are defined under International Law...


Yes, China's baseless claims over 80% of South China Sea. Even they frequently use paramilitary vessels to stab sinking Vietnamese fishing boats where only 50 nautical miles from Vietnam's shore, while thousands of nm from Chinese coastline. That's why we hate them.
China's illegal claims even overlaps with EEZ of Natuna Islands, Indonesia.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## BoQ77

The FACT that anyway, Vietnam is the key component of SCS security.

If China or US or Russia take advantage of Vietnam support, they could control the navigating of the region ...

Any move, depend on your choice, make friend or enemy to Vietnam and see.

Singapore ? Thailand ? Malaysia ? Phillipines ? which is the most stubborn to challenge the big power navigating ?

Indonesia just get the agreement with Vietnam, for getting their helicopters repaired and maintenance in Vietnam. Indonesia is the key component for entering route to India Ocean

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

*U.S. ships will continue to come to Vietnam’s Cam Ranh Military Port, located in the central province of Khanh Hoa, for repair services if the port is able to serve them, U.S. Captain Paul Schlise said upon the arrival of two U.S. vessels in the central city of Da Nang on Monday.*

*



*

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Martian2

My comment on Inquirer Global Nation.

PH case vs China a model for int'l sea disputes | Inquirer Global Nation

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Nike

Martian2 said:


> My comment on Inquirer Global Nation.
> 
> PH case vs China a model for int'l sea disputes | Inquirer Global Nation



My comments for you

We don't need your comment at all, just keep your comment inside your pocket

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## flamer84

madokafc said:


> My comments for you
> 
> We don't need your comment at all, just keep your comment inside your pocket





Will your country wage a total war on Burma ? Just asking....


----------



## Nike

flamer84 said:


> Will your country wage a total war on Burma ? Just asking....



For what?

foolish sentiment over Rohingnya? never

Indonesia always support democratization in Burma and their economic reforms too

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## flamer84

madokafc said:


> For what?
> 
> foolish sentiment over Rohingnya? never
> 
> Indonesia always support democratization in Burma and their economic reforms too



Good answer..altough the Rohingya should be given a chance to a honest life.Just saying....

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

flamer84 said:


> Good answer..altough the Rohingya should be given a chance to a honest life.Just saying....



Of course they should, but it will not be by Indonesia's hands.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Krueger

Publication Date : 13-04-2014




[/URL]

*The Philippines’ case against China in the United Nations arbitral tribunal would be the country’s contribution to international maritime jurisprudence, setting an example of legal remedies that smaller nations could seek instead of submitting to lopsided negotiations with bigger countries, according to the Philippine ambassador to the United States.*

Speaking at a gathering of businessmen in Makati City on Friday, Ambassador Jose Cuisia Jr. asserted the Philippines’ right to seek international arbitration in the face of Chinese incursions into the West Philippine Sea, the part of the South China Sea within the country’s exclusive economic zone.

*“This arbitration case would be a model or an example for other smaller states in a similar situation to consider the dispute settlement mechanism under the Unclos (United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea) as a way of resolving disputes in a peaceful manner,”* Cuisia said.

*First of its kind*

“The arbitration case itself is the Philippines’ contribution to further strengthening Unclos… As the Philippine arbitration case against China is the first of its kind, the proceedings and its subsequent outcome would serve to enrich international legal maritime jurisprudence, especially over disputes concerning the interpretation and application of Unclos,” he said.

*Invoking the convention, the Philippine government sought arbitration in January 2013 to nullify China’s claim over almost 90 per cent of the South China Sea, and to halt Chinese incursions into the country’s economic exclusion zone.*

* Setting precedent*

The Philippines filed on March 30 its 4,000-page memorial, a pleading that details the merits of its case against China, angering China, which issued strongly worded statements condemning the action.
China has refused to take part in the proceedings.

*Beijing has long been opposed to international litigation, insisting on bilateral negotiations that it again pressed on the Philippines last week, saying the arbitration bid “seriously damaged” relations between the two sides.*

Cuisia made an indirect response to this in his remarks, saying: “It is my view that by taking the legal route, the Philippines is setting an international precedent whereby states have other viable options to resolving maritime cases other than in an asymmetrical negotiation, where the big and militarily strong nation would dominate the smaller nation at the negotiating table.”

He said the legal action was a win-win solution to the dispute, serving to set straight China’s maritime entitlements, clarify the Philippines’ rights to fishing, resources and law enforcement in the West Philippine Sea, and, for the international community, “assure peace, security, stability and freedom of navigation in the South China Sea.”

*To the last drop of blood*

*Meanwhile, Vice President Jejomar Binay said the Philippines would pursue peaceful means to resolve the dispute but that it would defend its territories “to the last [drop of] blood.”*

“Up to the last [drop of] blood. I think that must be our position. That we are ready to die up to the last blood,” Binay said on Thursday in a statement released after meeting the nine Marines who had just returned from a five-month extended watch on Ayungin Shoal, the boundary of the Philippines’ territory in the Spratly archipelago.

“But as much as possible, we will always resort to peaceful means,” he said.

Binay, a Marine reservist, met with six of the nine Marines who ended their tour of duty on the grounded BRP Sierra Madre on March 29.

The Philippines resupplied and rotated the garrison despite harassment by Chinese Coast Guard ships.

http://www.asianewsnet.net/Philippine-case-vs-China-a-model-for-int’l-sea-d-59177.html

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

Just have a look at map for where Scarborough shoal is ; then you would know why Phil submit the case against China ...


----------



## Srinivas

Chinese flawed arguments, they are making a fool of themselves all over the world in this case.


----------



## JSCh

Krueger said:


> First of its kind
> “The arbitration case itself is the Philippines’ contribution to further strengthening Unclos… As the Philippine arbitration case against China is the first of its kind, the proceedings and its subsequent outcome would serve to enrich international legal maritime jurisprudence, especially over disputes concerning the interpretation and application of Unclos,” he said.


It is always good to look for inescapable admission in a bias/one-sided article that revealed the truth. 
The above line tell you that there are no precedent in international laws despite the repeated chanting of such.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## S10

Heh, "international court" with jurisdiction over what? What are they going to enforce their kangaroo decisions with?

Only monkeys get orgasms from it.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## shuttler

a model case of criminals who pretend as victims against the property holder who has rightful claims to the lands

when we shit there is already a swarm of hideous flies hovering over it!

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## JayMandan

Get your act straighten out China! Aren't you a member of UN? Aren't you a world leader? Or are you just a world leader in being an a**hole. Which is it? Prove the world perception of you as a bully wrong.


----------



## armchairPrivate

Whatever the "court" decides, China will just gesticulate with its finger.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Martian2

My comment on The Philippine Star.

US-Philippines deal won't stop China in disputed sea - analyst | The Philippine Star

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## BoQ77

Zero_wing said:


> Funny the nazis the romans and every empire has said that and yet history has a proven otherwise



Vietnam navy has an exercise with US 7th Fleet, USS John S. Mccain, an Arleigh Burke class destroyer ... in Vietnam EEZ in front of Tien Sa port, Da Nang, Vietnam

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

After this, USA feel free to give nuclear technology and material ; as well as lethal weapons to Vietnam without fear.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Martian2

My comment on The Philippine Star.

US-Philippines deal won't stop China in disputed sea - analyst | The Philippine Star

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## BoQ77

TheTruth said:


> Yep. The Vietnamese Hitler will get his Dresden if he tries to get nukes



We will have nuclear energy

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## applesauce

BoQ77 said:


> After this, USA feel free to give nuclear technology and material ; as well as lethal weapons to Vietnam without fear.



i highly, highly doubt that the US would give any kind of weapons related or even duel use nuclear technology/weapons to vietnam. it is not in american interest to do so. As this move would be illegal and contrary to america's own treaty commitments. and even if you leave that aside, it would be clear this is a major escalatory move against china, which incidentally has nuclear capability as well and can play the same card against the US by giving the same know-how/materials to countries unfriendly to the US.


----------



## BoQ77

applesauce said:


> i highly, highly doubt that the US would give any kind of weapons related or even duel use nuclear technology/weapons to vietnam. it is not in american interest to do so. As this move would be illegal and contrary to america's own treaty commitments. and even if you leave that aside, it would be clear this is a major escalatory move against china, which incidentally has nuclear capability as well and can play the same card against the US by giving the same know-how/materials to countries unfriendly to the US.



applesauce, 123 agreement would come into effect in late May 2014.
it doesn't means US transfer the nuclear weapon to Vietnam ... but nuclear powerplant or other kinds of using nuclear energy ...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## applesauce

BoQ77 said:


> applesauce, 123 agreement would come into effect in late May 2014.
> it doesn't means US transfer the nuclear weapon to Vietnam ... but nuclear powerplant or other kinds of using nuclear energy ...



correct. civilian tech. which no one really has too much problems with as vietnam shows no signs that would would try to do anything military with it.


----------



## BoQ77

applesauce said:


> correct. civilian tech. which no one really has too much problems with as vietnam shows no signs that would would try to do anything military with it.



Yes we do nothing related to military with it, if no one threaten us with nuclear weapon ...
North Korea develop nukes to defend themselves ...

We guess we are in more peaceful situation and have more friends than NK

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## applesauce

BoQ77 said:


> Yes we do nothing related to military with it, if no one threaten us with nuclear weapon ...
> North Korea develop nukes to defend themselves ...
> 
> We guess we are in more peaceful situation and have more friends than NK



no one is threatening to invade/nuke mainland vietnam(internet fanboys aside). even if vietnam had nukes, no one in their right mind would use it over a maritime dispute(not to mention the international backlash), and frankly, despite the disputes, the communist party relations are fairly good. North korea has nukes because they fear the US/SK might come to actually end their country, whether that fear is baseless or not is debatable though. thats said, clearly more subs/ships/planes would do more good for the maritime dispute than nukes ever could. which isnt a problem bcause we do agree that they aren't planning/trying to militarize the tech, so everyone's happy then.


----------



## BoQ77

applesauce said:


> no one is threatening to invade/nuke mainland vietnam(internet fanboys aside). even if vietnam had nukes, no one in their right mind would use it over a maritime dispute(not to mention the international backlash), and frankly, despite the disputes, the communist party relations are fairly good. North korea has nukes because they fear the US/SK might come to actually end their country, whether that fear is baseless or not is debatable though. thats said, clearly more subs/ships/planes would do more good for the maritime dispute than nukes ever could. which isnt a problem bcause we do agree that they aren't planning/trying to militarize the tech, so everyone's happy then.



good approach.
whoever use nuclear weapon to other ... ? there's only one.
the most powerful one

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

BoQ77 said:


> good approach.
> whoever use nuclear weapon to other ... ? there's only one.
> the most powerful one



A country like Vietnam can only build a primitive cumbersome firecracker like North Korea, no one would be really afraid of your nuke.

But if a major nuclear power that keeps hyping your nuclear capability, then you better to be really careful about this dangerous warning. Since they have the plan to invade your country in their mind. North Korea is just a prime example, since the US just keeps hyping NK's non-existential nuclear capability. If it wasn't China, the US would already launch the invasion against NK.

The US usually develops a different set of propaganda against the foes of different categories.

Against a powerful foe like China, they will usually downplay China's nuclear capability, just to assure to their little allies that China's nuclear capability is still "weak", so don't worry too much about them.

Against a weak foe like NK, they will over-exaggerate its nuclear capability since they want to have a legal excuse to invade them just like they did in Iraq for the non-existential WMD.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cirr

Hull sections of China Coast Guard‘s 1st 12000-tonne vessel being assembled at JNS：






You guys will see a lot of this monster in the SCS in a couple of years。


----------



## Zero_wing

Well good luck for china being international law breaker


----------



## Rechoice

cirr said:


> Hull sections of China Coast Guard‘s 1st 12000-tonne vessel being assembled at JNS：
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You guys will see a lot of this monster in the SCS in a couple of years。



what you can masturbate yourselves with such fake toys. Philippine have do necessary counter measures to against China bully action. US army will stationer in Phil.


----------



## Zero_wing

The already did but its US Marines and the US National Guard Units and we are getting more and more assets now so in few years time we can meet chiense imperialist agression with some capacity


----------



## levi_laufner

S10 said:


> Heh, "international court" with jurisdiction over what? What are they going to enforce their kangaroo decisions with?
> 
> Only monkeys get orgasms from it.


I mean we are talking about the UNCLOS here signed and ratified by every country in asia. I mean if we don't give any authority to this international treaty what is the point of International treaties in the first place? 




JSCh said:


> It is always good to look for inescapable admission in a bias/one-sided article that revealed the truth.
> The above line tell you that there are no precedent in international laws despite the repeated chanting of such.


So because there is no precedent suddenly nothing is wrong?



armchairPrivate said:


> Whatever the "court" decides, China will just gesticulate with its finger.


But that would make their international image suffer, "great china not following international treaties". The people who made these treaties and laws did line up punishment for offenders.


----------



## armchairPrivate

levi_laufner said:


> But that would make their international image suffer, "great china not following international treaties". The people who made these treaties and laws did line up punishment for offenders.



What international treaty?

If you are talking about the United Nations Convention on the Law of the *Sea*, (I have said it a thousand times) this treaty only governs the sea, not land. China is contesting the islands, shoals, reefs. Those are land, not water.

One has to apply some logical thinking to this matter, instead of saying those islands are closer to the Philippines and within its EEZ, so they belong to the Philippines. In this case, the EEZ arguments cannot be applied when land disputes are involved.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Sanchez

levi_laufner said:


> I mean we are talking about the UNCLOS here signed and ratified by every country in asia. I mean if we don't give any authority to this international treaty what is the point of International treaties in the first place?
> 
> 
> 
> So because there is no precedent suddenly nothing is wrong?
> 
> 
> But that would make their international image suffer, "great china not following international treaties". The people who made these treaties and laws did line up punishment for offenders.



Chinese claim was long before the birth of the so called treaty while Phillis claim was recent long after the treay. Shall we give a dam#?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## JSCh

levi_laufner said:


> I mean we are talking about the UNCLOS here signed and ratified by every country in asia. I mean if we don't give any authority to this international treaty what is the point of International treaties in the first place?


This is the declaration made by Philippine upon signing of the UNCLOS. FYI, Kalayaan islands is the Philippine given names for the islands in dispute.

http://www.un.org/Depts/los/convention_agreements/convention_declarations.htm#Philippines Understanding made upon signature (10 December 1982) and confirmed upon ratification
*
Philippines
*
Understanding made upon signature (10 December 1982) and confirmed upon ratification (8 May 1984) 8/ 9/

1. The signing of the Convention by the Government of the Republic of the Philippines shall not in any manner impair or prejudice the sovereign rights of the Republic of the Philippines under and arising from the Constitution of the Philippines.

2. Such signing shall not in any manner affect the sovereign rights of the Republic of the Philippines as successor of the United States of America, under and arising out of the Treaty of Paris between Spain and the United States of America of 10 December 1898, and the Treaty of Washington between the United States of America and Great Britain of 2 January 1930.

3. Such signing shall not diminish or in any manner affect the rights and obligations of the contracting parties under the Mutual Defence Treaty between the Philippines and the United States of America of 30 August 1951 and its related interpretative instruments; nor those under any other pertinent bilateral or multilateral treaty or agreement to which the Philippines is a party.

4. *Such signing shall not in any manner impair or prejudice the sovereignty of the Republic of the Philippines over any territory over which it exercises sovereign authority, such as the Kalayaan Islands, and the waters appurtenant thereto.*

5. The Convention shall not be construed as amending in any manner any pertinent laws and Presidential Decrees or Proclamation of the Republic of the Philippines; the Government of the Republic of the Philippines maintains and reserves the right and authority to make any amendments to such laws, decrees or proclamations pursuant to the provisions of the Philippines Constitution.

6. The provisions of the Convention on archipelagic passage through sea lanes do not nullify or impair the sovereignty of the Philippines as an archipelagic State over the sea lanes and do not deprive it of authority to enact legislation to protect its sovereignty, independence and security.

7. The concept of archipelagic waters is similar to the concept of internal waters under the Constitution of the Philippines, and removes straits connecting these waters with the economic zone or high sea from the rights of foreign vessels to transit passage for international navigation.

8. The agreement of the Republic of the Philippines to the submission for peaceful resolution, under any of the procedures provided in the Convention, of disputes under article 298 shall not be considered as a derogation of Philippines sovereignty.​​


----------



## S10

levi_laufner said:


> I mean we are talking about the UNCLOS here signed and ratified by every country in asia. I mean if we don't give any authority to this international treaty what is the point of International treaties in the first place?


When China signed the UNCLOS, it did not agree to arbitration by any UN tribunal. China explicitly stated that any such court has no jurisdiction, same as most countries that signed it. The world works on laws of the jungle, which means might makes right. If UN was so useful, Israel and US would have been sanctioned to death by now. Philippines will learn the hard way when they get slapped around.


----------



## Maxtini

armchairPrivate said:


> What international treaty?
> 
> If you are talking about the United Nations Convention on the Law of the *Sea*, (I have said it a thousand times) this treaty only governs the sea, not land. China is contesting the islands, shoals, reefs. Those are land, not water.
> 
> One has to apply some logical thinking to this matter, instead of saying those islands are closer to the Philippines and within its EEZ, so they belong to the Philippines. In this case, the EEZ arguments cannot be applied when land disputes are involved.



Since when did the arbitration concern about land? It is about the sea. The so called Nine-land dash is impossible to drawn even if all rocks, islands, and reefs belongs to China. UNCLOS explicitly stated that only island that could support human habitation deserve EEZ.

Philippines main island can support human habitation, so it deserves 200 nm EEZ, while those contested island don't deserve it. But China insisted it could by drawing Nine-Dash Line~ and hence the essence of the arbitration forwarded by Philippines, eschewing the problem of islands/reefs/rocks/ possession and instead focusing on the problematic nature of nine-dash line.

Here is the precedence set by ICJ in 2012 regarding Nicaragua vs Colombia, which is relevent to Philippines' case. The ICJ rule that, since Quitasueno and Serrana cannot support human life, it doesn't deserve EEZ but only 12 nm territorial zone surrounded by Nicaragua's EEZ 200 nm from mainland.
Given this precedence, it would be highly possible that the Permanent Court of Arbitration will also give similar ruling to the Philippines.

Reactions: Positive Rating Positive Rating:
1


----------



## Zero_wing

senheiser said:


> the only one whos breaking consistently laws is america



Wow other false flagger



S10 said:


> When China signed the UNCLOS, it did not agree to arbitration by any UN tribunal. China explicitly stated that any such court has no jurisdiction, same as most countries that signed it. The world works on laws of the jungle, which means might makes right. If UN was so useful, Israel and US would have been sanctioned to death by now. Philippines will learn the hard way when they get slapped around.



chinamen talk with no logic what so ever


----------



## armchairPrivate

Maxtini said:


> Since when did the arbitration concern about land? It is about the sea. The so called Nine-land dash is impossible to drawn even if all rocks, islands, and reefs belongs to China. UNCLOS explicitly stated that only island that could support human habitation deserve EEZ.
> 
> Philippines main island can support human habitation, so it deserves 200 nm EEZ, while those contested island don't deserve it. But China insisted it could by drawing Nine-Dash Line~ and hence the essence of the arbitration forwarded by Philippines, eschewing the problem of islands/reefs/rocks/ possession and instead focusing on the problematic nature of nine-dash line.
> 
> Here is the precedence set by ICJ in 2012 regarding Nicaragua vs Colombia, which is relevent to Philippines' case. The ICJ rule that, since Quitasueno and Serrana cannot support human life, it doesn't deserve EEZ but only 12 nm territorial zone surrounded by Nicaragua's EEZ 200 nm from mainland.
> Given this precedence, it would be highly possible that the Permanent Court of Arbitration will also give similar ruling to the Philippines.



Learn some law and practice logically thinking. It is good for you.
There is no law in this world a country or a person can claim purely water as territory unless there is land in that body of water.
When you own a tiny piece of land, then you can claim water territory and EEZ surrounding that land.
China is not claiming all body of water within the nine dash line. China is claiming the land within the nine dash line. When that claim is established, China can in turn claim the water surrounding those land (islands, shoal, etc).
China is NOT claiming all the water within the nine dash line.

Study. Go to school. It is good for you.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Maxtini

armchairPrivate said:


> Learn some law and practice logically thinking. It is good for you.
> There is no law in this world a country or a person can claim purely water as territory unless there is land in that body of water.
> When you own a tiny piece of land, then you can claim water territory and EEZ surrounding that land.
> China is not claiming all body of water within the nine dash line. China is claiming the land within the nine dash line. When that claim is established, China can in turn claim the water surrounding those land (islands, shoal, etc).
> China is NOT claiming all the water within the nine dash line.
> 
> Study. Go to school. It is good for you.



"China is NOT claiming all the water within the nine dash line" ~That is the question the Philippines seek through arbitration~
If everything goes by UNCLOS and China is not claiming all the water within the nine dash line, the Philippines should have its EEZ 200 nm westward from its main islands regardless of who possess the rocks/island/reef in spratly (save 12nm territorial sea). But it is not the case unfortunately as China deter any possible exercise of juridiction of EEZ by the Philippines.

Please educate yourself about UNCLOS;
* "REGIME OF ISLANDS*
Article 121. Regime of islands

1. An island is a naturally formed area of land, surrounded by water, *which is above water at high tide.*

2. Except as provided for in paragraph 3, the territorial sea, the contiguous zone, the exclusive economic zone and the continental shelf of an island are determined in accordance with the provisions of this Convention applicable to other land territory.

3*. Rocks which cannot sustain human habitation or economic life of their own shall have no exclusive economic zone or continental shelf*."

Most of the reefs/shoal/ and island cannot sustain human habitation or economic life and most are under water at high tide. Only Itu-Aba Island (occupied by Taiwan) can, and only that island can have the EEZ.
Please refer to the case of Okinotorishima by Japan, which has been declared as "rocks" and dont deserve EEZ.






And because of that, china has been ambiguous to state what exactly the nine-line dash is. This is evident in numerous "stand-off" between China/Vietnam, China/Philippines, China/Indonesia, and China/Malaysia in which China act as if the nine-dash line is its EEZ.

Philippines seeks clarification through PCA (Permanent Court of Arbitration), That is the essence, Look at the word "maritime jurisdiction". It is not even talking about the islands/reefs/rocks.

Please take a look at the arbitration press release.
http://www.pca-cpa.org/showfile.asp?fil_id=2311

"The Philippines v. China arbitration was commenced on 22 January 2013 when the Philippines served China with a Notification and Statement of Claim “with respect to the dispute with China *over the maritime jurisdiction* of the Philippines in the West Philippine Sea.” On 19 February 2013, China presented the Philippines with a diplomatic note in which it described “the Position of China on the South China Sea issues,” and rejected and returned the Philippines’ Notification. "

As presented by Justice Antonio T. Carpi:
"The Philippines’ arbitration case against China is solely a maritime dispute and does not involve any territorial dispute.* The Philippines is asking the tribunal if China’s 9-dashed lines can negate the Philippines’ EEZ as guaranteed under UNCLOS.* The Philippines is also asking the tribunal if certain rocks above water at high tide, like Scarborough Shoal, generate a 200 NM EEZ or only a 12 NM territorial sea. The Philippines is further asking the tribunal if China can appropriate low-tide elevations (LTEs), like Mischief Reef and Subi Reef, within the Philippines’ EEZ. These disputes involve the interpretation or application of the provisions of UNCLOS.

The Philippines is not asking the tribunal to delimit by nautical measurements overlapping EEZs between China and the Philippines. *The Philippines is also not asking the tribunal what country has sovereignty over an island, or rock above water at high tide, in the West Philippine Sea.*

Under UNCLOS, every coastal state is entitled to a 200 NM EEZ, subject to boundary delimitation in case of overlapping EEZs with other coastal states. The EEZ is the area extending to 200 NM measured from the baselines of a coastal state.* Under UNCLOS, EEZs must be drawn from baselines of the coast of a continental land or island capable of human habitation of its own.* This basic requirement stems from the international law principle that the “land dominates the sea” – or to put it another way, areas in the seas and oceans can be claimed and measured only from land."

Reactions: Positive Rating Positive Rating:
1


----------



## Zero_wing

armchairPrivate said:


> Learn some law and practice logically thinking. It is good for you.
> There is no law in this world a country or a person can claim purely water as territory unless there is land in that body of water.
> When you own a tiny piece of land, then you can claim water territory and EEZ surrounding that land.
> China is not claiming all body of water within the nine dash line. China is claiming the land within the nine dash line. When that claim is established, China can in turn claim the water surrounding those land (islands, shoal, etc).
> China is NOT claiming all the water within the nine dash line.
> 
> Study. Go to school. It is good for you.



Says the stupid person


----------



## Sergi

Well I am waiting for the result 

You don't need a crystal ball to tell that China will not accept the result. So the question is what purpose will it serve
1. Philippines gets international sympathy
2. It will put China in bad light and paint it as bully
3. Disrespect for International decision will unite the opposing parties.
4. And USA might want ti hatch a condition from it to control Chinese growth by controlling market and economy.
5. Japan's expansion in defence will go well with rest of the world.

So its Chinese lost both ways


----------



## armchairPrivate

Zero_wing said:


> Says the stupid person



Should you be on the cross like sweet baby jesus?


----------



## armchairPrivate

Maxtini said:


> "China is NOT claiming all the water within the nine dash line" ~That is the question the Philippines seek through arbitration~
> If everything goes by UNCLOS and China is not claiming all the water within the nine dash line, the Philippines should have its EEZ 200 nm westward from its main islands regardless of who possess the rocks/island/reef in spratly (save 12nm territorial sea). But it is not the case unfortunately as China deter any possible exercise of juridiction of EEZ by the Philippines.
> 
> Please educate yourself about UNCLOS;
> * "REGIME OF ISLANDS*
> Article 121. Regime of islands
> 
> 1. An island is a naturally formed area of land, surrounded by water, *which is above water at high tide.*
> 
> 2. Except as provided for in paragraph 3, the territorial sea, the contiguous zone, the exclusive economic zone and the continental shelf of an island are determined in accordance with the provisions of this Convention applicable to other land territory.
> 
> 3*. Rocks which cannot sustain human habitation or economic life of their own shall have no exclusive economic zone or continental shelf*."
> 
> Most of the reefs/shoal/ and island cannot sustain human habitation or economic life and most are under water at high tide. Only Itu-Aba Island (occupied by Taiwan) can, and only that island can have the EEZ.
> Please refer to the case of Okinotorishima by Japan, which has been declared as "rocks" and dont deserve EEZ.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And because of that, china has been ambiguous to state what exactly the nine-line dash is. This is evident in numerous "stand-off" between China/Vietnam, China/Philippines, China/Indonesia, and China/Malaysia in which China act as if the nine-dash line is its EEZ.
> 
> Philippines seeks clarification through PCA (Permanent Court of Arbitration), That is the essence, Look at the word "maritime jurisdiction". It is not even talking about the islands/reefs/rocks.
> 
> Please take a look at the arbitration press release.
> http://www.pca-cpa.org/showfile.asp?fil_id=2311
> 
> "The Philippines v. China arbitration was commenced on 22 January 2013 when the Philippines served China with a Notification and Statement of Claim “with respect to the dispute with China *over the maritime jurisdiction* of the Philippines in the West Philippine Sea.” On 19 February 2013, China presented the Philippines with a diplomatic note in which it described “the Position of China on the South China Sea issues,” and rejected and returned the Philippines’ Notification. "
> 
> As presented by Justice Antonio T. Carpi:
> "The Philippines’ arbitration case against China is solely a maritime dispute and does not involve any territorial dispute.* The Philippines is asking the tribunal if China’s 9-dashed lines can negate the Philippines’ EEZ as guaranteed under UNCLOS.* The Philippines is also asking the tribunal if certain rocks above water at high tide, like Scarborough Shoal, generate a 200 NM EEZ or only a 12 NM territorial sea. The Philippines is further asking the tribunal if China can appropriate low-tide elevations (LTEs), like Mischief Reef and Subi Reef, within the Philippines’ EEZ. These disputes involve the interpretation or application of the provisions of UNCLOS.
> 
> The Philippines is not asking the tribunal to delimit by nautical measurements overlapping EEZs between China and the Philippines. *The Philippines is also not asking the tribunal what country has sovereignty over an island, or rock above water at high tide, in the West Philippine Sea.*
> 
> Under UNCLOS, every coastal state is entitled to a 200 NM EEZ, subject to boundary delimitation in case of overlapping EEZs with other coastal states. The EEZ is the area extending to 200 NM measured from the baselines of a coastal state.* Under UNCLOS, EEZs must be drawn from baselines of the coast of a continental land or island capable of human habitation of its own.* This basic requirement stems from the international law principle that the “land dominates the sea” – or to put it another way, areas in the seas and oceans can be claimed and measured only from land."



I don't know and I don't care what the Philippines government's position is. What I can say from a logical thinking's person point of view that China does not claim the whole body of water in South China Sea..
Those lines were called dashed lines, not SOLID lines.
Those were lines, not CIRCLES.
This tells you part of this body of water is not for China to claim, some belongs to other countries and for international use (international water).

I challenge you to show me an official document from the Chinese government which claims the whole body of water within the 9 dashed lines.


----------



## Maxtini

armchairPrivate said:


> I don't know and I don't care what the Philippines government's position is. What I can say from a logical thinking's person point of view that China does not claim the whole body of water in South China Sea..
> Those lines were called dashed lines, not SOLID lines.
> Those were lines, not CIRCLES.
> This tells you part of this body of water is not for China to claim, some belongs to other countries and for international use (international water).
> 
> I challenge you to show me an official document from the Chinese government which claims the whole body of water within the 9 dashed lines.



As I said, China intentionally leaves that ambiguous~ But if logic, as you said, say China is not claiming the nine line dash as its EEZ, why does it have confrontation with Indonesia in Natuna Sea? China don't claim natuna Island, but why did China try to undermine Indonesian EEZ over Natuna Island?

Logic, as you said, concludes that China in some way, treat those nine-line dash, at least surrounding natuna sea, as China's EEZ/territory.

Indonesian EEZ surrounding Natuna Sea is actually less than 200 nm any way, because delimitation has already been concluded between Indonesia/Vietnam and Indonesia/Malaysia





"Several of these incidents, most recently in March 2013, have occurred between Indonesian and Chinese maritime security forces in Indonesia’s EEZ off Natuna Island. *While Indonesia isn’t a claimant state to the disputes in the South China Sea as commonly conceived, Chinese claims as defined under the now infamous ‘nine dash line’ map do overlap with the Indonesian EEZ generated from the Natunas.* Despite receiving comparatively little publicity, the incidents that have occurred in this area have been some of the most severe anywhere in the South China Sea, with direct threats of violence at times risking escalation. One particular incident illustrates this kind of encounter. The following is a summary extracted from an Indonesian incident report.

On 26 March 2013, the Indonesian vessel Hiu Macan 001 of the Ministry of Maritime Affairs and Fisheries encountered a Chinese fishing boat operating illegally in the South China Sea, roughly 200km northeast of Natuna Island in waters comprising the Indonesian EEZ. According to an after action report that appeared on an Indonesian military blog, _Garuda Militer_ in September 2013, and was purportedly written by the Captain of the HM 001, the Chinese ship (numbered 58081) was subsequently boarded and all nine Chinese fishermen on board arrested. Despite having transferred these fishermen to his boat on orders from his command headquarters to transport them ashore for further legal proceedings, the Captain would later be forced to release his prisoners following threats and harassment by a Chinese maritime law enforcement (MLE) vessel, Yuzheng 310.

The Yuzheng 310 was preceded on the scene by the Nan Feng, listed as a 66 meter, nearly two thousand ton ‘fishery resources and environmental science research vessel’ of the Chinese Academy of Fisheries Science (CAFS), which began to shadow the HM 001 for several hours. Unlike the Nan Feng, which is unarmed, the* Yuzheng 310 is reportedly ‘equipped with machine guns, light cannons and electronic sensors.*’ (PDF) Upon arriving on scene, the *Yuzheng 310 took command and immediately began to threaten the Indonesian vessel, demanding the release of the Chinese prisoners over bridge to bridge communications while signalling for it to stop with sirens. Outgunned and unable to reach his HQ via satellite phone (which had stopped functioning upon the Yuzheng’s arrival, and later functioned again following its departure), the Captain of the HM 001 made the decision to acquiesce to the Chinese demands out of ‘consideration for the safety of the crew’(Dengan pertimbangan demi keselamatan awak)."*

Reactions: Positive Rating Positive Rating:
1


----------



## Pangu

Lets look at it this way, S.Korea occupies Dokdo & refuse to go to UNCLOS with Japan. 

Russia occupies Kurile Islands & refuse to recognise the San Francisco Treaty despite Japan's protest.

Same rules apply, China occupies the SCS shaols & refuse to go to UNCLOS with Phillipines. 

Japan occupies Diaoyu Island & refuse to recognise the San Francisco Treaty despite China's protest.

Try arguing with that logic.


----------



## Zero_wing

armchairPrivate said:


> Should you be on the cross like sweet baby jesus?



Wow your not only stupid but your also ignorant on religion too? go f yourself



xudeen said:


> Lets look at it this way, S.Korea occupies Dokdo & refuse to go to UNCLOS with Japan.
> 
> Russia occupies Kurile Islands & refuse to recognise the San Francisco Treaty despite Japan's protest.
> 
> Same rules apply, China occupies the SCS shaols & refuse to go to UNCLOS with Phillipines.
> 
> Japan occupies Diaoyu Island & refuse to recognise the San Francisco Treaty despite China's protest.
> 
> Try arguing with that logic.



Again china is intenrational law breaker


----------



## armchairPrivate

Zero_wing said:


> Wow your not only stupid but your also ignorant on religion too? go f yourself



On your knees, beg for forgiveness Pinoy.

Manila mayor off to Hong Kong to apologize - Yahoo News


----------



## Viet

By VU TRONG KHANH
SGT Apr 15, 2014
*Wallstreet Journal ASIA*









Officials did not specify the size of the force, but said that it would be headquartered in Hanoi and would have four divisions throughout country.

According to state media citing Mr. Hai, Vietnam has around 120,000 fishing vessels with around one million people employed in the fishing industry.

In addition to protecting local fishing resources, the surveillance center will also work to prevent and deal with violations of Vietnamese laws that take place in the waters Vietnam claims.

Vietnam and several other countries in the Asia-Pacific region have been embroiled in long-standing territorial disputes with China over parts of the South China Sea.

In recent months China, which claims it has sovereignty over virtually all of the South China Sea, has tried to assert its control over the mineral-rich waters, in part by implementing fishing regulations.

In January, China enacted a new regulation requiring foreign fishermen to obtain Beijing’s consent before operating in parts of the South China Sea that it claims, including the waters near the Paracel islands.

Vietnam responded to that move to say it had “indisputable sovereignty” over the Paracels and Spratlys.

“Any foreign activities not approved by Vietnam in this area are illegal and invalid,” Luong Thanh Nghi, the then-spokesman for Vietnam’s Foreign Ministry, said in January.

Vietnam Launches Force to Keep an Eye on its Waters - Southeast Asia Real Time - WSJ











































more from this 2,500 tons vessel coming soon in the South China Sea

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Zero_wing

That's his thing not ours chinaman and it happen in his city but not in his administration so why are so happy? arrogant $c^m


----------



## NiceGuy

Yeah, time to protect our fishing ground with new steel fishing boats, not wooden boat again

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## BoQ77

There's not any legal principle for Yuzheng 310 to do so to Indonesian.
That happen because China force is stronger and they act as pre-history era, not follow any international law or rule


----------



## Beidou2020

Good luck against the Chinese coast guard and the Chinese Navy


----------



## KAL-EL

NiceGuy said:


> Yeah, time to protect our fishing ground with new steel fishing boats, not wooden boat again



Are your fishing boats armed?


----------



## BoQ77

KAL-EL said:


> Are your fishing boats armed?



No, Kal-El ... our fishermen don't act as Chinese

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Nike

more Vietnamese fishing boats to came to Indonesia, our country is kinda tired to tackle all of the intruders first they are fighting against Chinese, Thailand, and finally the Vietnamese


----------



## Viet

madokafc said:


> more *Vietnamese *fishing boats to came to Indonesia, our country is kinda tired to tackle all of the intruders first they are fighting against Chinese, Thailand, and finally the Vietnamese


are you sure those fishermen are Vietnamese? can you distinguish Chinese and Vietnamese?

Perhaps they are Chinese pretending to be Vietnamese. If they are Chinese, you are free to ask those rich Chinese for ransom befor release, if poor Vietnamese, pls let them free. 



Beidou2020 said:


> Good luck against the Chinese coast guard and the Chinese Navy


stop!

Vietnam fisheries resources surveillance is a civil authority. You don´t want to send the military against them,do you?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Beidou2020

BEIJING - An unmanned submersible has passed its final field test, marking another step in China's drive to explore deep sea resources.

Named "Haima," or sea horse, the vehicle can dive a depth of 4,500 meters via remote control and has the highest proportion of China-made parts compared with the country's other submersibles, according to a statement released on Tuesday by the Ministry of Science and Technology.

Chinese scientists spent six years developing core technologies and making the machine, which went through multiple improvements following problems and malfunctions during tests in laboratory tanks and the ocean.

During tests, the vehicle achieved a maximum depth of 4,502 meters, and reached the central basin in the South China Sea for tasks such as deploying cables, collecting sedimentary rock samples and photographing.

The ministry said the vehicle enables the country to strengthen its hi-tech exploration of deep sea resources, and the ministry will cooperate with the Ministry of Land and Resources in devising work plans for Haima.

Meanwhile, Qianlong-1, another unmanned submersible still in the trial stage, is designed to travel to a depth of 6,000 meters and will be tasked with exploring the seabed and collecting hydrological data.

In 2012, Jiaolong, the country's most advanced manned submersible, achieved a record dive depth of more than 7,000 meters in the Pacific's Mariana Trench.


----------



## Krueger

By Ying Ma
Apr 22, 2014






_A Japan Coast Guard vessel, left, sails along with a Chinese surveillance ship near the disputed islands called Senkaku in Japan and Diaoyu in China in the East China Sea n April 23._
Associated Press

As territorial tensions continue to hover over the Asia-Pacific, Beijing has grown increasingly agitated at what it sees as Western efforts to portray it as a bully in the region. China’s territorial conflicts have indeed prompted negative coverage in the foreign press, but how much of that is due to anti-China bias and how much falls on the shoulders of Beijing itself?

According to one veteran strategist, Beijing itself is largely to blame.

In picking fights with so many of its neighbors, China is practicing “bad strategy,” Edward Luttwak, a senior associate at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington, recently told me.

With Barack Obama about to arrive in Asia for a week-long visit, Mr. Luttwak argued that it would make much more strategic sense if Beijing were to “for example, focus on the Japanese,” emphasize their reluctance to fully own up to their sins from World War II, and “shut up about everybody else.”

Of course, China is no slouch when it comes to criticizing Japan. It has devoted vast resources—both in its domestic state-owned media apparatus and in public diplomacy campaigns–to paint Japan as an aggressor intent on whitewashing its war-time history and pursuing a path of militarism.

The problem for China, Luttwak explains, is that Beijing is “demanding the cession of lands, reefs, rocks and sea waters from India, Japan, Malaysia, the Philippines and Vietnam”—all at the same time. This has created the incentives and conditions for countries in Asia to gang up on and encircle China.

Were China to focus its ire on Japan, it could draw on a wide array of valid historical grievances. For instance, in asserting its claims on the hotly disputed Diaoyu Islands in the East China Sea (known as the Senkaku in Japan), Beijing insists that Japan stole the islands from China in the Sino-Japanese War of 1894 and failed to return them after World War II.

Beijing’s case is bolstered by the fact that other actors in East Asia harbor similar grievances against Japan. Taiwan, which also claims the Diaoyu/Senkaku islands, normally enjoys warm relations with Japan, but makes the same complaints as Beijing about Japan’s war-time theft.

Meanwhile, South Korea has its own set of nasty disputes with Japan. South Korea administers the Dokdo islands (known as the Takeshima islands in Japan) that Japan also claims. Much like China, South Korea suffered tremendously under Japan during World War II, and has regularly condemned statements or actions from the Japanese right that seek to gloss over or deny Japan’s past aggressions.

The Japanese right’s penchant for historical revisionism has provided China with plenty of fodder. “Japan’s conservatives are doing themselves and the rest of the global community a tremendous disservice by feeding a parallel narrative that sees Japan as the primary destabilizing force in East Asia,” Phillip Lipscy, Assistant Professor of Political Science at Stanford University, recently wrote.

That’s not to say China would find it easy to turn global opinion against Japan as an impediment to regional stability. Whatever Japan’s past sins and current flaws, it remains a stable democracy that has contributed to peace and development around the world and is not guilty of the egregious human rights abuses that China regularly inflicts on its own citizens.

China, however, seems not at all eager to give its neighbors the proper incentives to ponder Japan’s transgressions. Instead, it has engaged in heated territorial disputes with many neighboring countries and given them plenty of reasons to worry about China itself.

In Southeast Asia, for example, China claims sovereignty over virtually all of the waters of South China Sea and has grown increasingly aggressive in asserting claims over islands and underwater resources. In January of this year, the southern Chinese province of Hainan enacted regulations requiring all non-Chinese fishing vessels operating in the claimed waters to first obtain permission from Beijing. In 2012, China dislodged the Philippines from the Scarborough Shoal, a reef contested by the two countries, and in recent years, has repeatedly detained Vietnamese fishermen and cut the cables of Vietnamese vessels operating near island groups disputed between Beijing and Hanoi.

The result of these moves, argues Toshi Yoshihara of the U.S. Naval War College, is that Asian countries such as Vietnam, the Philippines, Cambodia and India are actively forging closer ties to the United States and Japan.

Luttwak agrees. “Because [the Chinese] are making concurrent demands on everyone, the Japanese, instead of being isolated, are being handed allies all over the place and are being welcomed everywhere.”

Certainly, China’s territorial claims are not new, nor is it alone in asserting some of the most controversial ones. Some also claim that China has not provoked any of the recent crises with its neighbors but have merely overreacted to them. Regardless, China is undermining its own interests by pursuing so many of territorial claims so aggressively at the same time.

Many attribute China’s growing assertiveness to the abandonment of its foreign policy strategy, described in Foreign Affairs in 2005 by Chinese scholar Zheng Bijian, of a “peaceful rise” to great-power status.

In that vein, Chinese President Xi Jinping recently portrayed China as a lion that has awakened. Though he insists the lion is “peaceful, friendly and civil,” outside observers see in Chinese behavior a growing sense among the leadership in Beijing that China’s time in the sun has finally come. That more muscular foreign policy has coincided with the growing influence of the view—widely discussed in China’s foreign policy circles since the global financial crisis of 2008-09–that the United States is a power in decline.

These perceptions have spurred more than a few worries in Asian capitals and will animate many of President Obama discussions with regional leaders on his impending visit to Malaysia, South Korea, the Philippines and Japan. As America’s friends and allies in Asia eagerly to seek reassurances that Washington will honor its security commitments in the face of a rising China, Luttwak contends that “it would behoove the Chinese–it would suit the Chinese–to continue with its previous policy called ‘peaceful rise,’ shut up about islands and places, ask for nothing and simply continue growing.”

Luttwak himself acknowledges that Beijing is unlikely to heed his advice. Keeping quiet doesn’t dovetail with the “China Dream” that Xi has encouraged Chinese citizens to pursue in the 21st century — a key componentof which is building a strong, assertive country that never again has to experience the indignities it suffered in the 19th and 20th centuries.

Yet even strong countries must wield and nurture their strength wisely. It was China’s late paramount leader Deng Xiaoping who set forth the foreign policy doctrine of “bide our time; hide our capabilities” in order to avoid triggering efforts by the United States and others to contain China’s rise. Though China is now much stronger than during Deng’s era, it is still not strong enough to take on the United States and much of Asia. That may be worth remembering in Beijing’s pursuit of the “China Dream.”

_Ying Ma is the author of “Chinese Girl in the Ghetto” and the host of “China Takes Over the World” on RTHK, Hong Kong’s public broadcast station. Follow her on Twitter @gztoghetto.
_
*Should China just ‘Shut Up’ about its territorial ambitions?*


----------



## Beidou2020

Viet said:


> are you sure those fishermen are Vietnamese? can you distinguish Chinese and Vietnamese?
> 
> Perhaps they are Chinese pretending to be Vietnamese. If they are Chinese, you are free to ask those rich Chinese for ransom befor release, if poor Vietnamese, pls let them free.
> 
> 
> stop!
> 
> Vietnam fisheries resources surveillance is a civil authority. You don´t want to send the military against them,do you?



We can send whatever the damn hell we want.
Who will stop us?
You? the US?


----------



## BoQ77

They aren't good enough for MH370 searching, are they?


----------



## Nike

Viet said:


> are you sure those fishermen are Vietnamese? can you distinguish Chinese and Vietnamese?
> 
> Perhaps they are Chinese pretending to be Vietnamese. If they are Chinese, you are free to ask those rich Chinese for ransom befor release, if poor Vietnamese, pls let them free.
> 
> 
> stop!
> 
> Vietnam fisheries resources surveillance is a civil authority. You don´t want to send the military against them,do you?



*Navy arrests illegal Vietnamese fishing boats *
Sat, February 12 2011 02:23 | 2104 Views

Jakarta (ANTARA News) - The Indonesian navy had intercepted and caught two Vietnamese fishing boats while illegally operating in the Natuna waters in Riau Islands.

Naval spokesman Commodore Tri Prasodjo said here Friday that although the two fishing vessels used Indonesian names KM Jaya Bahari-121 and KM Jaya Bahari-122, they were actually Vietnamese fishing vessels.

They were arrested by Indonesian warship KRI Imam Bonjol when on routine patrol in the waters. 

He said 100-ton KM Jaya Bahari 122 was skippered by Nguyen Van Huan and has a crew of 26, while 80-ton KM Jaya Bahari 121 was under the command of Le Van Khanh and has a crew of four. 

After a search and inspection, it turned out that KM Jaya Bahari 122 already caught more than one ton of fish in Indonesia`s ZEE, while KM Jaya Bahari 121 had a fish catch of one ton. 

"The two and their fish loot had been escorted to the Tarempa naval base in Riau Islands for furher investigation," Tri said. He said had intensified sea security operations in Indonesia, including Natuna.(*)
_Editor: Aditia Maruli_

COPYRIGHT © 2011
Navy arrests illegal Vietnamese fishing boats - ANTARA News


----------



## Viet

Beidou2020 said:


> We can send whatever the damn hell we want.
> Who will stop us?
> You? the US?


do you want a condemnation from the international community?
China could be end up as a second N Korea.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Beidou2020

BoQ77 said:


> They aren't good enough for MH370 searching, are they?



Nope.

They are good for finding our resources in our sea so we can start producing our resources by ourselves.


----------



## Nike

*Batam police arrest 61 Vietnamese fishermen for illegal fishing*
Fri, January 10 2014 18:57 | 784 Views

Batam, Riau Islands (ANTARA News) - The Batam Water Police recently took 61 Vietnamese fishermen into custody for illegal fishing in the waters of Riau Island province, stated an official.

"On January 4, the fishermen were caught onboard four big fishing vessels in the waters of the Anambas District. They entered the Riau Island waters through the South China Sea," Commander of Bisma 8001 patrol boat Adjunct Senior Commissioner Sigit N. Hidayat remarked here on Friday.

Sigit noted that the four fishing vessels seized by the police were equipped with sophisticated navigation devices and radar for detecting the presence and location of schools of fish in the waters. The fishing vessels, each weighing 100-160 tons, are now anchored in the navy base in Batam.

The police investigations revealed that the Vietnamese fishermen had repeatedly visited Batams Office for Marine and Fishery to obtain permits for fishing in the Indonesian waters. However, the local authorities declined their requests. The police suspect that the fishermen were involved in illegal fishing activities in the Batam waters during their return trip to Vietnam.

Riau Islands provincial territory includes some areas of the South China Sea. For several years, fishermen from Myanmar, Thailand, Vietnam, and Malaysia have frequented this area for conducting illegal fishing.(*)
_Editor: Heru_

COPYRIGHT © 2014
Batam police arrest 61 Vietnamese fishermen for illegal fishing - ANTARA News

Every year we caught ten thousands of your fisherman, and sunk hundreds or thousands of their boats along with the Chinese and Thailand boats, it is quite disturbing for all of us. All of you keep coming in large number to our water and steal our fish and resources


----------



## BoQ77

Beidou2020 said:


> Nope.
> 
> They are good for finding our resources in our sea so we can start producing our resources by ourselves.



That's what Chinese people blame their govt. ... Resource more value than human-being


----------



## Beidou2020

Viet said:


> do you want a condemnation from the international community?
> China could be end up as a second N Korea.



Condemn and then what?

North Korea? you mean sanctions?

How will western companies get their revenue from?


----------



## Viet

madokafc said:


> *Navy arrests illegal Vietnamese fishing boats *
> Sat, February 12 2011 02:23 | 2104 Views
> 
> Jakarta (ANTARA News) - The Indonesian navy had intercepted and caught two Vietnamese fishing boats while illegally operating in the Natuna waters in Riau Islands.
> 
> Naval spokesman Commodore Tri Prasodjo said here Friday that although the two fishing vessels used Indonesian names KM Jaya Bahari-121 and KM Jaya Bahari-122, they were actually Vietnamese fishing vessels.
> 
> They were arrested by Indonesian warship KRI Imam Bonjol when on routine patrol in the waters.
> 
> He said 100-ton KM Jaya Bahari 122 was skippered by Nguyen Van Huan and has a crew of 26, while 80-ton KM Jaya Bahari 121 was under the command of Le Van Khanh and has a crew of four.
> 
> After a search and inspection, it turned out that KM Jaya Bahari 122 already caught more than one ton of fish in Indonesia`s ZEE, while KM Jaya Bahari 121 had a fish catch of one ton.
> 
> "The two and their fish loot had been escorted to the Tarempa naval base in Riau Islands for furher investigation," Tri said. He said had intensified sea security operations in Indonesia, including Natuna.(*)
> _Editor: Aditia Maruli_
> 
> COPYRIGHT © 2011
> Navy arrests illegal Vietnamese fishing boats - ANTARA News


ok, I don´t know how many such events occur. sure, if they violate our waters, it is you right to arrest them.

by the way, Vietnam navy arrested 11 indonesian pirates some time ago.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

We dont support illegal fishing ... we protest the illegal claim of fishing boundary

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Nike

Viet said:


> ok, I don´t know how many such events occur. sure, if they violate our waters, it is you right to arrest them.
> 
> by the way, Vietnam navy arrested 11 indonesian pirates some time ago.



well Indonesia is very notorious to became the sources of Pirates activity in all of South East Asian Water since Srivijaya era  We had Bugis peoples notorious for their pirates activity to attacking all of the European, India and Chinese commercial sail ship sailing in ASEAN body water in Age of Sail era back in 17th to 18th centuries, those Bugis has been remembered by them eternally into the word of Boogeyman  Good joob for arresting them because they can't got so much activity in our water since Reformation Era started back in 2000 with the ever increasing of our patrol.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

KAL-EL said:


> Are your fishing boats armed?


no, they are not. the USN is welcome to protect our fishermen. Pls send some mighty destroyers 



Beidou2020 said:


> Condemn and then what?
> 
> North Korea? you mean sanctions?
> 
> How will western companies get their revenue from?


look at Iran, and you understand what you will expect. economics santions bring any country to the knee.


----------



## Beidou2020

Viet said:


> no, they are not. the USN is welcome to protect our fishermen. Pls send some mighty destroyers
> 
> 
> look at Iran, and you understand what you will expect. economics santions bring any country to the knee.



China is a driver, not a drag, for U.S. earnings in first quarter

Sacrifice all this for little Vietnam?


----------



## Viet

Beidou2020 said:


> China is a driver, not a drag, for U.S. earnings in first quarter
> 
> Sacrifice all this for little Vietnam?


ha ha ha...you know too little about politics. America is keen to win Vietnam as ally. Because Vietnam will help uncle Sam to encircle China. economics matter never helps a country if it comes to big politics.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Beidou2020

Viet said:


> ha ha ha...you know too little about politics. America is keen to win Vietnam as ally. Because Vietnam will help uncle Sam to encircle China. economics matter never helps a country if it comes to big politics.



Economy is everything to the Yankees. The Yankee multinationals run Yankee politics. When they earn money from China, nothing else matters to them. Money runs this world. No other country makes money for Yankee companies than China. 

Vietnam is an insignificant ant compared to the billions upon billions the Yankees gain from access to the Chinese market.

They lose faaaaaaaar more losing the Chinese market than gaining a mickey mouse joke like Vietnam that offer them just another base in Asia.

Even under full sanctions we can run our economy as we have our own savings, our own brands, our large consumer market, we use our currency, our capital markets, our technology, etc.

Don't ever underestimate the capabilities and resilience of a country like China.
We are under military sanctions and that hasn't done jack to slow down our military rise.

There is a reason we are next in line to the the world superpower and Vietnam is next in line to be our province again 

Asia is our backyard and the South China Sea is our private playing pond.

Nothing will stop our military rise. Our coast guard is getting more and more ships and our Navy is getting dozens and dozens of missile boats, corvettes, frigates, destroyers, conventional submarines and nuclear submarines. Our Air Force is getting 4th and 5th generation fighters, transport planes, AWACS, refuelling tankers, electronic aircraft, a whole range of drones.

Then our Space forces with all sorts of satellites and our missile forces with ballistic and cruise missiles, then our cyber forces, our electronic warfare capabilities, etc.

We have the money, we have the engineers and scientists, we have the technology and we have the political will.

Try and stop us if you can

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

Beidou2020 said:


> Economy is everything to the Yankees. The Yankee multinationals run Yankee politics. When they earn money from China, nothing else matters to them. Money runs this world. No other country makes money for Yankee companies than China.
> 
> Vietnam is an insignificant ant compared to the billions upon billions the Yankees gain from access to the Chinese market.
> 
> They lose faaaaaaaar more losing the Chinese market than gaining a mickey mouse joke like Vietnam that offer them just another base in Asia.
> 
> Even under full sanctions we can run our economy as we have our own savings, our own brands, our large consumer market, we use our currency, our capital markets, our technology, etc.
> 
> Don't ever underestimate the capabilities and resilience of a country like China.
> We are under military sanctions and that hasn't done jack to slow down our military rise.
> 
> There is a reason we are next in line to the the world superpower and Vietnam is next in line to be our province again
> 
> Asia is our backyard and the South China Sea is our private playing pond.
> 
> Nothing will stop our military rise. Our coast guard is getting more and more ships and our Navy is getting dozens and dozens of missile boats, corvettes, frigates, destroyers, conventional submarines and nuclear submarines. Our Air Force is getting 4th and 5th generation fighters, transport planes, AWACS, refuelling tankers, electronic aircraft, a whole range of drones.
> 
> Then our Space forces with all sorts of satellites and our missile forces with ballistic and cruise missiles, then our cyber forces, our electronic warfare capabilities, etc.
> 
> We have the money, we have the engineers and scientists, we have the technology and we have the political will.
> 
> Try and stop us if you can


hats off for chinese peaceful rise!
bad news for vietnam


----------



## Genesis

Viet said:


> hats off for chinese peaceful rise!
> bad news for vietnam



China does want to rise peacefully, 30+ years no war, which country of comparable strength has done the same?

China may have disagreements, but no war, if you had a border dispute with the US or UK, it would not be the same as China. UK sent battle groups to the other side of the globe for Falklands. That's what a real aggressive power does. 

I think Vietnam, Philippines and nations have been too comfortable with China, I have seen so many comments on how togethor you can defeat China, have any of these people ever seen how many advanced ships China has? How many we will add in the next 10 years? They see one refurbished, but still the biggest after Nimitz class, carrier and they think weak navy.


But here's the deal, I think the Vietnamese government is pragmatic and capable, you guys more or less knows the Chinese system and are unlike the uncivilized between Chinese ideas and the Western ideas. So Vietnam's problem is simply under industrialized, not a deeper thing. 

Besides, looking at the actions of Vietnamese government and not the comments of posters, it's apparent the government understand the situation and is walking that tight rope expertly, unlike the Philippine's president that's already in the water drowning.


----------



## Beidou2020

Genesis said:


> China does want to rise peacefully, 30+ years no war, which country of comparable strength has done the same?
> 
> China may have disagreements, but no war, if you had a border dispute with the US or UK, it would not be the same as China. UK sent battle groups to the other side of the globe for Falklands. That's what a real aggressive power does.
> 
> I think Vietnam, Philippines and nations have been too comfortable with China, I have seen so many comments on how togethor you can defeat China, have any of these people ever seen how many advanced ships China has? How many we will add in the next 10 years? They see one refurbished, but still the biggest after Nimitz class, carrier and they think weak navy.
> 
> 
> But here's the deal, I think the Vietnamese government is pragmatic and capable, you guys more or less knows the Chinese system and are unlike the uncivilized between Chinese ideas and the Western ideas. So Vietnam's problem is simply under industrialized, not a deeper thing.
> 
> Besides, looking at the actions of Vietnamese government and not the comments of posters, it's apparent the government understand the situation and is walking that tight rope expertly, unlike the Philippine's president that's already in the water drowning.



If the PLA decided to completely destroy Vietnam, there is nothing Vietnam can do.

There won't be a ground war. It will be carpet bombing everything in Vietnam. That means bombing all infrastructure, industrial buildings, commercial buildings, military targets, schools, universities, etc.

Then just drop tons of depleted uranium into the agricultural areas, lakes, and population centers.

If the CPC wanted to, we could literally finish the entire civilisation of Vietnam off in one enormous military assault from Air, Navy and Missile forces.

I guarantee you that will shut the Viets up for multiple decades.


----------



## Fukuoka

> Filipinos protest in front of Chinese embassy



They want the international court to rule on the territorial dispute, which China rejects, saying the issue can only be dealt with between China and Philippines.

China claims sovereignty over all islands in South China Sea.


Embedded media from this media site is no longer available


----------



## Viet

Beidou2020 said:


> If the PLA decided to completely destroy Vietnam, there is nothing Vietnam can do.
> 
> There won't be a ground war. It will be carpet bombing everything in Vietnam. That means bombing all infrastructure, industrial buildings, commercial buildings, military targets, schools, universities, etc.
> 
> Then just drop tons of depleted uranium into the agricultural areas, lakes, and population centers.
> 
> If the CPC wanted to, we could literally finish the entire civilisation of Vietnam off in one enormous military assault from Air, Navy and Missile forces.
> 
> I guarantee you that will shut the Viets up for multiple decades.


I suggest you bomb the ancient town Hoi An first as you can kill all Chinese refugees who found a home in Vietnam after the collapse of the Ming dynasty. the town has not changed much since centuries, and as you know how to destroy cultural heritage.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

Viet said:


> ha ha ha...you know too little about politics. America is keen to win Vietnam as ally. Because Vietnam will help uncle Sam to encircle China. economics matter never helps a country if it comes to big politics.





Beidou2020 said:


> If the PLA decided to completely destroy Vietnam, there is nothing Vietnam can do.
> 
> There won't be a ground war. It will be carpet bombing everything in Vietnam. That means bombing all infrastructure, industrial buildings, commercial buildings, military targets, schools, universities, etc.
> 
> Then just drop tons of depleted uranium into the agricultural areas, lakes, and population centers.
> 
> If the CPC wanted to, we could literally finish the entire civilisation of Vietnam off in one enormous military assault from Air, Navy and Missile forces.
> 
> I guarantee you that will shut the Viets up for multiple decades.



You promote us to use nuclear energy as weapon to defend against Chinese aggression ?
I think a North Korea is enougn ?? then there's a time 2 NK call China as enemy ... at this moment there's only one, then better ?


----------



## Rechoice

Beidou2020 said:


> If the PLA decided to completely destroy Vietnam, there is nothing Vietnam can do.
> 
> There won't be a ground war. It will be carpet bombing everything in Vietnam. That means bombing all infrastructure, industrial buildings, commercial buildings, military targets, schools, universities, etc.
> 
> Then just drop tons of depleted uranium into the agricultural areas, lakes, and population centers.
> 
> If the CPC wanted to, we could literally finish the entire civilisation of Vietnam off in one enormous military assault from Air, Navy and Missile forces.
> 
> I guarantee you that will shut the Viets up for multiple decades.



With helpe of USA, Japan can destroy China too.

China is bigboy but bad boy. You are punnished again like 1979.


----------



## Viet

Genesis said:


> China does want to rise peacefully, 30+ years no war, which country of comparable strength has done the same?
> 
> China may have disagreements, but no war, if you had a border dispute with the US or UK, it would not be the same as China. UK sent battle groups to the other side of the globe for Falklands. That's what a real aggressive power does.
> 
> I think Vietnam, Philippines and nations have been too comfortable with China, I have seen so many comments on how togethor you can defeat China, have any of these people ever seen how many advanced ships China has? How many we will add in the next 10 years? They see one refurbished, but still the biggest after Nimitz class, carrier and they think weak navy.
> 
> 
> But here's the deal, I think the Vietnamese government is pragmatic and capable, you guys more or less knows the Chinese system and are unlike the uncivilized between Chinese ideas and the Western ideas. *So Vietnam's problem is simply under industrialized,* not a deeper thing.
> 
> Besides, looking at the actions of Vietnamese government and not the comments of posters, it's apparent the government understand the situation and is walking that tight rope expertly, unlike the Philippine's president that's already in the water drowning.


you got it. Vietnam is suffering a period of weakness which is hopefully soon to be overcome.
and of course, you understand, too that the actions of Vietnam on the ground speak for a peaceful approach toward China.


----------



## Beidou2020

Rechoice said:


> With helpe of USA, Japan can destroy China too.
> 
> China is bigboy but bad boy. You are punnished again like 1979.



We crushed the Japs in WW2.
We crushed the US in Korean War.
We crushed India in 1962.
We crushed Vietnam in 1974, 1979 and 1988.

It's impossible to stop us. 
We can do whatever the damn hell we want. 
You know why? 
Because we are China!


----------



## Viet

Beidou2020 said:


> We crushed the Japs in WW2.
> We crushed the US in Korean War.
> We crushed India in 1962.
> We crushed Vietnam in 1974, 1979 and 1988.
> 
> It's impossible to stop us.
> We can do whatever the damn hell we want.
> You know why?
> Because we are China!


I can imagine that tears come out of your eyes after writing these shi... lines.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Brainsucker

Beidou2020 said:


> If the PLA decided to completely destroy Vietnam, there is nothing Vietnam can do.
> 
> There won't be a ground war. It will be carpet bombing everything in Vietnam. That means bombing all infrastructure, industrial buildings, commercial buildings, military targets, schools, universities, etc.
> 
> Then just drop tons of depleted uranium into the agricultural areas, lakes, and population centers.
> 
> If the CPC wanted to, we could literally finish the entire civilisation of Vietnam off in one enormous military assault from Air, Navy and Missile forces.
> 
> I guarantee you that will shut the Viets up for multiple decades.



Don't masturbate too much. It is bad for your health. Because even if you want to, it won't happen.



Rechoice said:


> With helpe of USA, Japan can destroy China too.
> 
> China is bigboy but bad boy. You are punnished again like 1979.



You're wrong. With the help of USA, USA will win. But Japan will be destroyed. It also be true with Vietnam and Pinoy. With the help of USA, USA will win, but Pinoy and Vietnam will destroyed. Because it is your land that will become the battlefield. Your city will become ruin like the cities in Syria, and your people will suffer; even if China lose that war.

So the result will always lose - lose situation

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Genesis

Beidou2020 said:


> If the PLA decided to completely destroy Vietnam, there is nothing Vietnam can do.
> 
> There won't be a ground war. It will be carpet bombing everything in Vietnam. That means bombing all infrastructure, industrial buildings, commercial buildings, military targets, schools, universities, etc.
> 
> Then just drop tons of depleted uranium into the agricultural areas, lakes, and population centers.
> 
> If the CPC wanted to, we could literally finish the entire civilisation of Vietnam off in one enormous military assault from Air, Navy and Missile forces.
> 
> I guarantee you that will shut the Viets up for multiple decades.



maybe, but as you know China hasn't had a war in 30 years, and probably won't have one for another long time, if this war was to take place.

The army heads are the leaders of the military committee right now, they would want their own men to see some action, and the officers would kill for the chance, I mean can you imagine not being in the only war to happen in like 40 years and how your career will be like? Factions will be fighting for the chance. When there is peace everything is good, but as soon as there is a prize....


Also War must serve a purpose, any war China conducts must serve as a show of we are freedom, justice, prosperity, height of civilization.

If we do the uranium thing, we will be seen as the next Hitler. 

Anytime we think of war, we must think what we can achieve after the war. I'm not against war with Vietnam, but it has to have a reason, and I can honestly say at this moment in time, attacking any of the ASEAN and Japan is not as useful as you think. Though we can easily win all of them, and by 2020-2025, we can we against all of them combined, easily. By 2030, I doubt we even need more than one military region to finish off all of them.

But the same applies, does victory and war bring us the things we want? At this point in time, no.


----------



## Beidou2020

Viet said:


> I can imagine that tears come out of your eyes after writing these shi... lines.



Its pride. We have humiliated every country we have fought since the communists came to power. That is a historical fact.

But I can imagine the tears and fear coming out of you knowing you are utterly helpless to stop us dominating Asia.

It's our god given right to rule over Asia and to dominate other Asians

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Brainsucker

Genesis said:


> maybe, but as you know China hasn't had a war in 30 years, and probably won't have one for another long time, if this war was to take place.
> 
> The army heads are the leaders of the military committee right now, they would want their own men to see some action, and the officers would kill for the chance, I mean can you imagine not being in the only war to happen in like 40 years and how your career will be like? Factions will be fighting for the chance. When there is peace everything is good, but as soon as there is a prize....
> 
> 
> Also War must serve a purpose, any war China conducts must serve as a show of we are freedom, justice, prosperity, height of civilization.
> 
> If we do the uranium thing, we will be seen as the next Hitler.
> 
> Anytime we think of war, we must think what we can achieve after the war. I'm not against war with Vietnam, but it has to have a reason, and I can honestly say at this moment in time, attacking any of the ASEAN and Japan is not as useful as you think. Though we can easily win all of them, and by 2020-2025, we can we against all of them combined, easily. By 2030, I doubt we even need more than one military region to finish off all of them.
> 
> But the same applies, does victory and war bring us the things we want? At this point in time, no.



Yes, just remember who is the grand teacher of the art of war to PLA and China's leader? Sun Tzu. And he said that : War is the most important matter of a state. It is not a sport, it is not about pride. It is about the most important matter that the state will do.


----------



## BoQ77

Beidou2020 said:


> Its pride. We have humiliated every country we have fought since the communists came to power. That is a historical fact.
> 
> But I can imagine the tears and fear coming out of you knowing you are utterly helpless to stop us dominating Asia.
> 
> It's our god given right to rule over Asia and to dominate other Asians



so Crazy nazi, you are, Chinese guy !!!


----------



## ViXuyen

Beidou2020 said:


> If the PLA decided to completely destroy Vietnam, there is nothing Vietnam can do.
> 
> There won't be a ground war. It will be carpet bombing everything in Vietnam. That means bombing all infrastructure, industrial buildings, commercial buildings, military targets, schools, universities, etc.
> 
> Then just drop tons of depleted uranium into the agricultural areas, lakes, and population centers.
> 
> If the CPC wanted to, we could literally finish the entire civilisation of Vietnam off in one enormous military assault from Air, Navy and Missile forces.
> 
> I guarantee you that will shut the Viets up for multiple decades.


Carpet bombing Vietnam? Sure, you rookies can try. The general idea among us is that your air super duper bowa is a million times INFERIOR to the American that we have faced.









Beidou2020 said:


> We crushed the Japs in WW2.
> We crushed the US in Korean War.
> We crushed India in 1962.
> We crushed Vietnam in 1974, 1979 and 1988.
> 
> It's impossible to stop us.
> We can do whatever the damn hell we want.
> You know why?
> Because we are China!


You lost every major military engagement in the 20th century. Your only "victory" was in 1988 when you shot our unarmed transport boats. Your military is a loser military past, present, and future.


----------



## ViXuyen

Beidou2020 said:


> That was due to the emergence of SAMS during that time. The US was unprepared.
> 
> We know everything Vietnam has and just bomb all the key military targets and proceed to drop depleted uranium all across Vietnam.
> 
> Lets see Vietnamese society deal with deployed uranium all across Vietnam.
> That'll shut the Viets up for a few decades.


The one who was not prepared for war at that time was us, NOT the U.S. We had not had any prior experience in operating fighter jets, SAM, and electronic counter warfare at the start of the war while the U.S had everything including ballistic missiles, satellites, anti-radar missiles, jamming capability. We talk the talk and walk the walk with our actual combat record against the world first rated air force while you guys are just barking at us on PDF lol


----------



## Beidou2020

ViXuyen said:


> The one who was not prepared for war at that time was us, NOT the U.S. We had not had any prior experience in operating fighter jets, SAM, and electronic counter warfare at the start of the war while the U.S had everything including ballistic missiles, satellites, anti-radar missiles, jamming capability. We talk the talk and walk the walk with our actual combat record against the world first rated air force while you guys are just barking at us on PDF lol



Vietnam had Soviet and Chinese forces helping to operate those SAMS, giving intelligence and giving various other help.

The actual contribution of Vietnamese people is less than 5%.

It was all Soviet and Chinese forces that did all the damage to the US.


----------



## ViXuyen

Beidou2020 said:


> Vietnam had Soviet and Chinese forces helping to operate those SAMS, giving intelligence and giving various other help.
> 
> The actual contribution of Vietnamese people is less than 5%.
> 
> It was all Soviet and Chinese forces that did all the damage to the US.


The Soviet trained us but they stayed out of combat while we operate those SAMs and jets. Chinese? What contribution other than digging tunnels? LOL

List of Vietnam War flying aces - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Beidou2020

ViXuyen said:


> The Soviet trained us but they stayed out of combat while we operate those SAMs and jets. Chinese? What contribution other than digging tunnels? LOL
> 
> List of Vietnam War flying aces - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



It was our soldiers that was fighting on the ground and operating the SAMS along with the Soviets.

It just happened to be in the country of Vietnam.

Vietnam contributed nothing as America had already crushed you beyond repair. Then Soviet and Chinese entered and helped counter the US.

Vietnam was dead and buried before that.


----------



## ViXuyen

Beidou2020 said:


> It was our soldiers that was fighting on the ground and operating the SAMS along with the Soviets.
> 
> It just happened to be in the country of Vietnam.
> 
> Vietnam contributed nothing as America had already crushed you beyond repair. Then Soviet and Chinese entered and helped counter the US.
> 
> Vietnam was dead and buried before that.


 Save your butthurt comment for your kind. The Soviet did little to nothing in actual combat against US in the war other than training us in operating the SAM and jets in the first year of the air war in 1965. 

Chinese provided next to nothing in combat against US air power.


----------



## Beidou2020

ViXuyen said:


> Save your butthurt comment for your kind. The Soviet did little to nothing in actual combat against US in the war other than training us in operating the SAM and jets in the first year of the air war in 1965.
> 
> Chinese provided next to nothing in combat against US air power.



That's what Vietnamese propaganda tells you.

Soviet and Chinese were responsible for the victory over the US.

Vietnam did nothing.


----------



## ViXuyen

Beidou2020 said:


> That's what Vietnamese propaganda tells you.
> 
> Soviet and Chinese were responsible for the victory over the US.
> 
> Vietnam did nothing.


 That's what Chinese propaganda tells you. China did nothing, I mean zip.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Beidou2020

ViXuyen said:


> That's what Chinese propaganda tells you. China did nothing, I mean zip.



Nope. We gave you your country. We saved you from the US.


----------



## Viet

Beidou2020 said:


> Its pride. We have humiliated every country we have fought since the communists came to power. That is a historical fact.
> 
> But I can imagine the tears and fear coming out of you knowing you are utterly helpless to stop us dominating Asia.
> 
> It's our god given right to rule over Asia and to dominate other Asians


Chinese army sucks, and you know that.

by the way, here is an interesting news from Russia:

Vietnam plans to produce 10 more Molnija class corvettes (bringing the number to 16) and double the number of Gepard frigates (bringing the number to 12). Unclear whether we will buy the frigates or produce them in Vietnam using Russian license, like the Molnija class corvettes. these heavily armed warships carry urans antiship missiles. More than enough to sink the entire Chinese fleet.

Plus, we plan to buy advanced jet fighters and modern air defence. and more toys come soon. 

Molnija corvette





Gepard frigate






the article says further Russia will deliver all toys whatever Vietnam wants. Voice of Russia is the mouth piece of the government of Russia.

what are you going to do? declare war against Russia?

so next time we will order nuclear subs, equipped with nuclear cruise missiles. I find nukes weapons are very useful, considering the balance of power between Vietnam and China.

Warum Vietnam mehr russische Waffen braucht - Nachrichten - Gesellschaft - Stimme Russlands


----------



## Kyle Sun

ViXuyen said:


> You lost every major military engagement in the 20th century. Your only "victory" was in 1988 when you shot our unarmed transport boats. Your military is a loser military past, present, and future.



Do you want me to post the battle video of 1988 ?

Unarmed transport boats ? LMAO!


----------



## ViXuyen

Kyle Sun said:


> Do you want me to post the battle video of 1988 ?
> 
> Unarmed transport boats ? LMAO!


 Yes, it was unarmed transport boat.


----------



## Beidou2020

Viet said:


> Chinese army sucks, and you know that.
> 
> by the way, here is an interesting news from Russia:
> 
> Vietnam plans to produce 10 more Molnija class corvettes (bringing the number to 16) and double the number of Gepard frigates (bringing the number to 12). Unclear whether we will buy the frigates or produce them in Vietnam using Russian license, like the Molnija class corvettes. Plus, we plan to buy advanced jet fighters and modern air defence.
> 
> Molnija corvette
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gepard frigate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the article says further Russia will deliver all toys whatever Vietnam wants. Voice of Russia is the mouth piece of the government of Russia.
> 
> so next time we will order nuclear subs, equipped with nuclear cruise missiles. I find the nukes are very useful.
> 
> Warum Vietnam mehr russische Waffen braucht - Nachrichten - Gesellschaft - Stimme Russlands



Yup.

Thats why we defeated Japan, US, India and Vietnam (3 times).

We have dozens of type 056 corvettes, dozens of type 054A frigates, dozen type 052C/D destroyers, and constructing the type 055 cruiser.

We have dozens of submarines, both conventional and nuclear that is equipped with advanced missiles.

Good luck trying to keep up with the PLA military build up


----------



## Kyle Sun

ViXuyen said:


> The one who was not prepared for war at that time was us, NOT the U.S. We had not had any prior experience in operating fighter jets, SAM, and electronic counter warfare at the start of the war while the U.S had everything including ballistic missiles, satellites, anti-radar missiles, jamming capability. We talk the talk and walk the walk with our actual combat record against the world first rated air force while you guys are just barking at us on PDF lol



Give me a break please!

You would never be ready!

Until not , Viet still can not even make a tank yourself .

You can shot down those fighters because the SAM,the Jets from Soviet Union and the archibald from China.

And also the tough will to fight of the soldier.

But without the SAM JET GUns ,the will to fight is nothing !

No matter how tough your fighting will , you can not break a fighter with stick.


----------



## Viet

Beidou2020 said:


> Yup.
> 
> Thats why we defeated Japan, US, India and Vietnam (3 times).
> 
> We have dozens of type 056 corvettes, dozens of type 054A frigates, dozen type 052C/D destroyers, and constructing the type 055 cruiser.
> 
> We have dozens of submarines, both conventional and nuclear that is equipped with advanced missiles.
> 
> Good luck trying to keep up with the PLA military build up


surely we don´t have the people, landmass, money and resources that China has, but we will try our best a bit of arms race.


----------



## Kyle Sun

ViXuyen said:


> Yes, it was unarmed transport boat.



A unarmed boat with cannon ?

Check out the website below , tell me your boat is unarmed transport boat again.

http://www.iqiyi.com/w_19rqy32mf1.html


----------



## Viet

Beidou2020 said:


> That was due to the emergence of SAMS during that time. The US was unprepared.
> 
> We know everything Vietnam has and just bomb all the key military targets and proceed to drop depleted uranium all across Vietnam.
> 
> Lets see Vietnamese society deal with deployed uranium all across Vietnam.
> That'll shut the Viets up for a few decades.


SAM is a mighty toy.

if you haven´t noticed Vietnam has one of the most dense air defence networks in SE Asia. good luck for chinese boys in flying coffins. I can see coming that their mothers cry about their deaths.


----------



## ViXuyen

Kyle Sun said:


> Give me a break please!
> 
> You would never be ready!
> 
> Until not , Viet still can not even make a tank yourself .
> 
> You can shot down those fighters because the SAM,the Jets from Soviet Union and the archibald from China.
> 
> And also the tough will to fight of the soldier.
> 
> But without the SAM JET GUns ,the will to fight is nothing !
> 
> No matter how tough your fighting will , you can not break a fighter with stick.


Why make a tank when we can buy something like the Kornet-EM ATGM that can destroy 1300 mm of armour at 8 km away at a price of just $100k USD including launcher?


----------



## Kyle Sun

Viet said:


> surely we don´t have the people, landmass, money and resources that China has, but we will try our best a bit of arms race.


IMHO!

Viet is too small to do arm race with us . I mean economy. 

US and Japan is the right one.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

Kyle Sun said:


> IMHO!
> 
> Viet is too small to do arm race with us . I mean economy.
> 
> US and Japan is the right one.


I know hence I say *a bit *of arms race, just to maintain a minimum creditable deterrence.

should it come to a confrontation, we expect Russia to deliver military toys on credit.


----------



## Kyle Sun

ViXuyen said:


> Why make a tank when we can buy something like the Kornet-EM ATGM that can destroy 1300 mm of armour at 8 km away at a price of just $100k USD including launcher?



You are right !

You just can buy something , you always depend on the others' support , so you will never be ready.

That's the problem . That's the Key . 

Do not use the data such like how many fighters you shot down during the war to show off. 

How many fighters you can shot down without SAM/Mig/ack-ack?

The only thing you should proud is the fighting will.



Viet said:


> I know hence I say *a bit *of arms race.
> 
> should it come to a confrontation, we expect Russia to deliver military toys on credit.


Small amount will be ok. 

But long term is no way , Ru is not super power anymore , their economy is not very good , they can not afford that 

And China do not have very serous contradiction with Ru


----------



## ViXuyen

Kyle Sun said:


> You are right !
> 
> You just can buy something , you always depend on the others' support , so you will never be ready.
> 
> That's the problem . That's the Key .
> 
> Do not use the data such like how many fighters you shot down during the war to show off.
> 
> How many fighters you can shot down without SAM/Mig/ack-ack?
> 
> The only thing you should proud is the fighting will.


This is the reason why you think we can't do an arm race with you guys. You are thinking that we must match one of your tanks with one of our tanks, one of our jets with one of your jets. However, we can match one of your tanks with just one or two ATGM or one of your jets with two or three air to ground missiles. On the naval front, we can always match your fleet with more submarines or midget submarines. Submarine is the guerilla weapon at sea my friend. You spend ten bucks, we only need to spend a buck and that is more than enough to counter your conventional forces of two military districts and one fleet


----------



## Kyle Sun

Viet said:


> SAM is a mighty toy.
> 
> if you haven´t noticed Vietnam has one of the most dense air defence networks in SE Asia. good luck for chinese boys in flying coffins. I can see coming that their mothers cry about their deaths.


Now is 21th century. 

The advantage in amount can not compensate the disadvantage in quality . 

On the other hand , one piece of 2 pieces good weapon can not change the result . 

it can also apply to China.


----------



## Viet

Kyle Sun said:


> Small amount will be ok.
> 
> But long term is no way , *Ru is not super power anymore* , their economy is not very good , they can not afford that
> 
> And China do not have very serous contradiction with Ru


it is just a moment in time. Russia has a strong military base and natural resources. helping Vietnam with money and military toys should not be a problem. Putin is keen to bring Russia to the glorious past.

we will help him, too to reach that goal.


----------



## Kyle Sun

ViXuyen said:


> This is the reason why you think we can't do an arm race with you guys. You are thinking that we must match one of your tanks with one of our tanks, one of our jets with one of your jets. However, we can match one of your tanks with just one or two ATGM or one of your jets with two or three air to ground missiles. On the naval front, we can always match your fleet with more submarines or midget submarines. Submarine is the guerilla weapon at sea my friend. You spend ten bucks, we only need to spend a buck and that is more than enough to counter your conventional forces of two military districts and one fleet


Arm* RACE!!!
*
tell me the meaning of RACE!

The cold war between SV and US is arm race . 

That means you need to run ahead or try to run ahead of China in the amount and quality of weapons.

That costs huge amount of money , you need to use the whole power of your nation . 

Remember , Guerilla is just a tactics ,it means you are not capable to do the arm race.



Viet said:


> it is just a moment in time. Russia has a strong military base and natural resources. helping Vietnam with money and military toys should not be a problem. Putin is keen to bring Russia to the glorious past.
> 
> we will help him, too to reach that goal.


RU is powerful . No doubt. 

RU has so many natural resources, that is good for RU .

But it does not means Ru can stand up.

Until now , RU's economy is depend on the export of resources. 

Even their own army does not have enough weapons. Such as Jets/S400/Sub/Tank. 

How do you thing RU will give you those important and expensive weapons to Viet ?

And I do not know the meaning of " you Viet help Ru to the glorious past"?


----------



## Viet

Kyle Sun said:


> RU is powerful . No doubt.
> 
> RU has so many natural resources, that is good for RU .
> 
> But it does not means Ru can stand up.
> 
> Until now , RU's economy is depend on the export of resources.
> 
> Even their own army does not have enough weapons. Such as Jets/S400/Sub/Tank.
> 
> How do you thing RU will give you those important and expensive weapons to Viet ?
> 
> And I do not know the meaning of " you Viet help Ru to the glorious past"?


Putin said recently: the downfall of the Soviet Union is one of most tragically moments in the world history.
he is determined to bring Russia to the glorius past.

give him some years, you will see. Crimea is just the beginning.

as for Vietnam, you will see, too how Vietnam can help him to achieve that goal. in economics, a hint: Vietnam is going to join soon the Russian led economics bloc consisting of Belarus, Kazakhstan and Russia. Vietnamese government promised that during the Russian PM in Hanoi recently.

Russia is keen to win Vietnam as partner, as they want access to markets in ASEAN.


----------



## Beidou2020

Viet said:


> SAM is a mighty toy.
> 
> if you haven´t noticed Vietnam has one of the most dense air defence networks in SE Asia. good luck for chinese boys in flying coffins. I can see coming that their mothers cry about their deaths.



Air Defences can easily be taken out by electronic, cyber and other means. 
We have some of the best air defences in the world and we have the counters to them.

Vietnam even thinking about taking on the PLA is beyond a joke.

Once those air defences are taken out, Vietnam has nothing left.

Don't ever underestimate the ruthless and killer nature of the CPC and the PLA.



Viet said:


> Putin said recently: the downfall of the Soviet Union is one of most tragically moments in the world history.
> he is determined to bring Russia to the glorius past.
> 
> give him some years, you will see. Crimea is just the beginning.
> 
> as for Vietnam, you will see, too how Vietnam can help him to achieve that goal. in economics, a hint: Vietnam is going to join soon the Russian led economics bloc consisting of Belarus, Kazakhstan and Russia. Vietnamese government promised that during the Russian PM in Hanoi recently.
> 
> Russia is keen to win Vietnam as partner, as they want access to markets in ASEAN.



Russia will never sacrifice the Sino-Russia relationship for anyone.

Without us, Russia has no one to buy their energy.

We are the only country Russia has.

India is insignificant. Vietnam is beyond insignificant.

We have the massive markets the Russians want. We give them support against the west.

Vietnamese economy is smaller than our unofficial military budget


----------



## Kyle Sun

Viet said:


> Putin said recently: the downfall of the Soviet Union is one of most tragically moments in the world history.
> he is determined to bring Russia to the glorius past.
> 
> give him some years, you will see. Crimea is just the beginning.
> 
> as for Vietnam, you will see, too how Vietnam can help him to achieve that goal. in economics, a hint: Vietnam is going to join soon the Russian led economics bloc consisting of Belarus, Kazakhstan and Russia. Vietnamese government promised that during the Russian PM in Hanoi recently.
> 
> Russia is keen to win Vietnam as partner, as they want access to markets in ASEAN.



It is not that easy. 

The key of recover is the economy , is the money. 

But the economy of RU is depend on resource , it is more like The Middle East country. 

Such kind of economy can not sustain long time . 

On the other hand , the economics bloc is too small , I mean the economic amount is small . 

And Viet will be a market of RU product , but you can not support the other more import thing , like tech.


----------



## Beidou2020

Viet said:


> I know hence I say *a bit *of arms race, just to maintain a minimum creditable deterrence.
> 
> should it come to a confrontation, we expect Russia to deliver military toys on credit.



Russia needs China now more than ever. They don't want to anger China. They will depend on our energy demand for their government revenue.

Buying a limited number of weapons won't be enough to take on the PLA. Once we destroy those weapons you have no way to get new weapons in a state of war.

Remember, the PLA is getting NEW naval ships, subs, fighters, support planes, missiles, etc every year. Our arsenal of ships and planes are already massive and equipped with advanced missiles. 

Our unofficial military budget is $240 BILLION and growing 12% on that budget every year.

Good luck messing with the PLA.


----------



## BoQ77

You have big military, something not so good, but in general an advanced military.

What you don't have, we have - *The Righteousness*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

Beidou2020 said:


> Russia will never sacrifice the Sino-Russia relationship for anyone.



But China is ready betrayed Russia like 1969.

Russia could play the game but never trust on Chinese.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ViXuyen

Beidou2020 said:


> Air Defences can easily be taken out by electronic, cyber and other means.
> We have some of the best air defences in the world and we have the counters to them.
> 
> Vietnam even thinking about taking on the PLA is beyond a joke.
> 
> Once those air defences are taken out, Vietnam has nothing left.
> 
> Don't ever underestimate the ruthless and killer nature of the CPC and the PLA.


The U.S lost almost 4000 jets trying to take out our air defence. China thinking about doing an air war against Vietnam is the biggest joke ever. You guys are just a bunch of rookies in air warfare while our air defence and pilots shot down almost 4000 jets of a first rated air force. We talk the talk and walk the walk. You don't even have anything close to 4000 jets to LOSE, LOL. Your air force is nowhere near the mighty U.S.A that we faced that had satellite, ballistic missiles, anti-radar missiles. Your military is indeed paper, try to launch an air and ground assault against us and see how we will humiliate you once again.

What a joke!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Rechoice

Beidou2020 said:


> Russia needs China now more than ever. They don't want to anger China. They will depend on our energy demand for their government revenue.
> 
> Buying a limited number of weapons won't be enough to take on the PLA. Once we destroy those weapons you have no way to get new weapons in a state of war.
> 
> Remember, the PLA is getting NEW naval ships, subs, fighters, support planes, missiles, etc every year. Our arsenal of ships and planes are already massive and equipped with advanced missiles.
> 
> Our unofficial military budget is $240 BILLION and growing 12% on that budget every year.
> 
> Good luck messing with the PLA.



PLA dont reach the size of USA 1972 when they attacked North Vietnam. we don't mess with China, but we can defend our land like 1979.

China will loser when you can do such idiot provocative on Japan. Japan can take China easy like in WW II.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## BoQ77

Rechoice said:


> PLA dont reach the size of USA 1972 when they attacked North Vietnam. we don't mess with China, but we can defend our land like 1979.
> 
> China will loser when you can do such idiot provocative on Japan. Japan can take China easy like in WW II.



I just want to remind Chinese pals learn again Sun Tzu theory of "Knowing you, and knowing me"

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

BoQ77 said:


> I just want to remind Chinese pals learn again Sun Tzu theory of "Knowing you, and knowing me"



We Vietnamese say, you know it: "Knowing us, knowing enemy, hunderd battle, hundred victory". so why USA, France, Chinese invaders ran away from Vietnam.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Pangu

Rechoice said:


> We Vietnamese say, you know it: "Knowing us, knowing enemy, hunderd battle, hundred victory". so why USA, France, Chinese invaders ran away from Vietnam.



China did very badly in that stupid war. If I were Deng, I would not sent the PLA in to fight Vietnam on behalf of Cambodia, especially after the Vietnam War with the US which gave Vietnam a strong cadre of battle-hardened & experience troops. Vietnam fought very well & deserved that victory.

With that said, the Sino-Vietnamese War was a punitive expedition, not a war of occupation, so no need for PLA to remain in Vietnam. The French-Indochina war was a colonial war of occupation, while the war against the US was a USSR proxy war using Vietnam to exhaust the Americans. 

All different political objectives.


----------



## NiceGuy

Beidou2020 said:


> Air Defences can easily be taken out by electronic, cyber and other means.
> We have some of the best air defences in the world and we have the counters to them.
> 
> Vietnam even thinking about taking on the PLA is beyond a joke.
> 
> Once those air defences are taken out, Vietnam has nothing left.
> 
> Don't ever underestimate the ruthless and killer nature of the CPC and the PLA.


Oh yeah,l we look down on your coward and poor trained army now , show that ur PLA can fight without US daddy protection and support like in 1979 .Dont just come here to bark, its No use.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

Beidou2020 said:


> Air Defences can easily be taken out by electronic, cyber and other means.
> We have some of the best air defences in the world and we have the counters to them.
> 
> Vietnam even thinking about taking on the PLA is beyond a joke.
> 
> Once those air defences are taken out, Vietnam has nothing left.
> 
> Don't ever underestimate the ruthless and killer nature of the CPC and the PLA.



Just need some Vietnamese women militia, our girls captured hundreds of PLA troops in 1979, like this:















See also: China-Vietnam Border War, 30 Years Later - Photo Essays - TIME

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Beidou2020

Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> Just need some Vietnamese women militia, our girls captured hundreds of PLA troops in 1979, like this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See also: China-Vietnam Border War, 30 Years Later - Photo Essays - TIME



Nice photoshops.



NiceGuy said:


> Oh yeah,l we look down on your coward and poor trained army now , show that ur PLA can fight without US daddy protection and support like in 1979 .Dont just come here to bark, its No use.



We murdered you in 1974, 1979 and 1988



Rechoice said:


> PLA dont reach the size of USA 1972 when they attacked North Vietnam. we don't mess with China, but we can defend our land like 1979.
> 
> China will loser when you can do such idiot provocative on Japan. Japan can take China easy like in WW II.



We crushed you like a dog in 1979 LOL



ViXuyen said:


> The U.S lost almost 4000 jets trying to take out our air defence. China thinking about doing an air war against Vietnam is the biggest joke ever. You guys are just a bunch of rookies in air warfare while our air defence and pilots shot down almost 4000 jets of a first rated air force. We talk the talk and walk the walk. You don't even have anything close to 4000 jets to LOSE, LOL. Your air force is nowhere near the mighty U.S.A that we faced that had satellite, ballistic missiles, anti-radar missiles. Your military is indeed paper, try to launch an air and ground assault against us and see how we will humiliate you once again.
> 
> What a joke!



US lost its planes with Soviet air defaces operated by Soviet and Chinese soldiers.

There was nothing Vietnamese did. Vietnamese did guerrilla warfare on the ground. The high tech stuff was all done by Soviets and Chinese.

An EMP bomb over Vietnam and all your electronics are finished.

Then we will drop depleted uranium all over Vietnamese water, soil and population centres so your kids are born abnormal like with Agent Orange.

We will murder you like we did in 1974, 1979 and 1988.

Then we will bang all Vietnamese women and kill all the men.

We f**k your women, we f**k your country.
Why?
Because we are a superior race 



EastSea said:


> But China is ready betrayed Russia like 1969.
> 
> Russia could play the game but never trust on Chinese.



Right now Russia is totally isolated. 
We are the only country left for the Russians.


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

Beidou2020 said:


> Nice photoshops.



They are real photos of the truth but who brainwashed too much by CCP do not know or deliberately deny...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ViXuyen

Beidou2020 said:


> Nice photoshops.
> 
> 
> 
> We murdered you in 1974, 1979 and 1988
> 
> 
> 
> We crushed you like a dog in 1979 LOL
> 
> 
> 
> US lost its planes with Soviet air defaces operated by Soviet and Chinese soldiers.
> 
> There was nothing Vietnamese did. Vietnamese did guerrilla warfare on the ground. The high tech stuff was all done by Soviets and Chinese.
> 
> An EMP bomb over Vietnam and all your electronics are finished.
> 
> Then we will drop depleted uranium all over Vietnamese water, soil and population centres so your kids are born abnormal like with Agent Orange.
> 
> We will murder you like we did in 1974, 1979 and 1988.
> 
> Then we will bang all Vietnamese women and kill all the men.
> 
> We f**k your women, we f**k your country.
> Why?
> Because we are a superior race


Your war machines do not work, your tacticians suk dik, your troopers are cowardice. That's why your loser military has lost every war against us since 938 A.D. There is nothing to brag about superior losing streak LOL


----------



## Brainsucker

xudeen said:


> China did very badly in that stupid war. If I were Deng, I would not sent the PLA in to fight Vietnam on behalf of Cambodia, especially after the Vietnam War with the US which gave Vietnam a strong cadre of battle-hardened & experience troops. Vietnam fought very well & deserved that victory.
> 
> With that said, the Sino-Vietnamese War was a punitive expedition, not a war of occupation, so no need for PLA to remain in Vietnam. The French-Indochina war was a colonial war of occupation, while the war against the US was a USSR proxy war using Vietnam to exhaust the Americans.
> 
> All different political objectives.



Well, I don't know. From what I heard, Deng sent those soldiers who he sent to Vietnam to be killed, not to win the war. They were the gang of four underlings. The people who almost destroyed China in '70. That's why they were not protected by air cover. But who know. Maybe what I heard is only a rumor.


----------



## BoQ77

Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> Just need some Vietnamese women militia, our girls captured hundreds of PLA troops in 1979, like this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See also: China-Vietnam Border War, 30 Years Later - Photo Essays - TIME



What you expect for local militaria ?
Women, ethnic women, oldies, ... ethnic ...

That's truth ... that's who caused heavy casualties to PLA soldiers

They handled well US soldiers

Ancient Vietnamese has the phrase " When enemy invades, even women would fight"
A good book about the Vietnamese women "Even women must fight" by Karen Gottchang Turner

Amazon.com: Even the Women Must Fight: Memories of War from North Vietnam (9780471327233): Karen Gottschang Turner: Books





Before and After










Kan Lich - ethnic lady - hero in Vietnam War





Ngo Thi Tuyen - guerrilla in Vietnam War

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Srinivas

*Dismounting China from the South China Sea
China's growing energy needs and overlapping territorial claims place its energy security on a collision course with its smaller, weaker neighbors*
China's economy requires increased access to resources, especially when managing the needs of approximately 20% of the world's population.

China's growing energy needs and overlapping territorial claims in the resource-rich South China Sea place their energy security on a collision course with its smaller, weaker neighbors.

The most recent issue is China's increasingly hard-lined approach to the Scarborough Reef, approximately 4 times farther away from China than it is to the Philippines.

*Historic lens*

*China backs its South China Sea claims through a Chinese map produced in 1947, Chinese Foreign Minister Zhou Enlai’s 1951 statement, and the discovery of the Belitung Wreck in 1998.

Please make your own opinions regarding the legitimacy of a map created in 1947 citing a historical claim. Minister Zhou’s statement denounced the San Francisco Peace Treaty – as China was not invited – and further declared Chinese ownership of the Spratly, Paracel, and Pratas Islands.

Furthermore, Beijing portrayed the Belitung Wreck as “[Tang Dynasty] artifacts at the bottom of [Indonesian coastal waters],” however failed to mention that the dhow (a lateen-rigged ship with one or two masts) was not a "Chinese vessel that had a seafaring purpose in the region," but is instead debated to have been an Arabian or Indian ship.*

_Even if it was a Chinese trade ship, a sunken vessel possibly lost at sea doesn’t really pass the legitimacy test for a territorial claim._

*Legal lens*

In addition to questionable historical interpretations, China tries to strengthen its claims with outdated legal decisions.

In 2010 and again in 2013, China attempted to gain ownership of up to two-thirds of Okinawa’s continental shelf by arguing Okinawa was a former Chinese vassal state and cited the 1969 North Sea Continental Shelf Case ruling to strengthen its cause.

However, this form of coastal delineation was superseded by the 1973 to 1982 drafting of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), which replaced the natural prolongation argument with the 200 nautical mile exclusive economic zone (EEZ) – as demonstrated in 1982 (Libya v. Tunisia) and again upheld in 1985 (Malta v. Libya).

Additionally, Article 12 of UNCLOS defines islets as land masses incapable of sustaining life and therefore ineligible for EEZ status. Without this EEZ status, they cannot be used by Beijing (or any other country) to create a maritime boundary, such as Beijing’s Nine-Dash Line.

However, when we look at the Philippines’ and other countries’ disputes with China, we start to see some legitimacy of ownership. For example – the obvious distance factor aside – some countries have had prior habitation on the islets, whereas China has not.

Additionally, several of the claimant countries either have developed or are exploring ways to develop tourism (beaches, diving, fishing, etc), which assert possession over the area.

Other avenues have included deploying military contingents or setting up civilian communities on these islets to demonstrate physical occupation.

These countermeasures are in addition to the 1994 decision, determined by UNCLOS Article 121, which created international maritime boundaries – that China chooses to ignore.

Combined, these cursory examples prove Beijing lacks solid historical, occupational, and legal claims in the region.

*Ways forward*

Beijing’s branding of the South China Sea as one of its “core interests” will only compound matters.

Previous “core interests” include Taiwan, Tibet, and the former East Turkmenistan and generally means China will refuse to negotiate where they would need to concede territory; use force to protect their interests; and impose a regional order – an obviously bleak picture.

Moreover, China’s modus operandi for dealing with territorial claims is a 3-pronged approach; which includes delays in dispute resolution, consolidation of claims, and preventing the opposing country from strengthening their claims.

To many Asia-Pacific observers, Beijing’s heavy-handed approach is reminiscent of the “middle kingdom,” a time in China's imperialistic past when rulers, emboldened by the “mandate of heaven,” threatened and subdued all non-Chinese nations if they failed to pay tribute or showed deference.

Which is why China was angered when the Philippines didn’t back down and instead filed their territorial dispute in the Permanent Court of Arbitration on March 30, 2014.

To maintain regional stability, everyone’s motivation needs to be understood. For example, China’s hard-line approach may be rooted in the fact that it is 80 to 90% dependent on foreign oil; has a massive, growing population; and the Communist Chinese Party leadership must deliver continued high-growth to maintain its position.

On the other hand, as Dana Dillon suggests, China is viewed as the neighbor on the street who tries to own your yard, your driveway, and your mailbox, but allows you to keep your house.

Mainland China should be more like Taiwan – in April 2013 Japan and Taiwan concluded a fishing agreement surrounding the disputed Senkaku islands.

Following Taiwan's lead, Mainland China can prove that is dedicated to the Rule of Law and is not simply a reincarnation of the Middle Kingdom.

Instead of increasing tensions with the possibility of a mistaken calculation leading to conflict, Taiwan and Japan sat down, discussed their fishing requirements, and signed an agreement.

Their territorial dispute remains unsolved; however, both sides enjoy the new status quo and prove that even when a dispute exists, so too does an amiable solution for both sides.

Thus, we have a golden opportunity for China and the Philippines to work together, demonstrate that they support the Rule of Law and are capable of solving problems in a legal and friendly fashion. – Rappler.com

Dismounting China from the South China Sea

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Srinivas

*The Philippines' South China Sea Memorial: Sailing into the Wind*







 


The Philippines has put its disputed territorial claims before an arbitration tribunal in The Hague. According to Gregory Polin, Manila’s arguments against China’s ‘nine-dash line’ and rival claims are entirely justified. It’s now up to the tribunal to weigh in and convince Beijing of these ‘facts’.

By Gregory Poling for Pacific Forum CSIS

_Editor's note: This article was reposted from PacNet #28 published by Pacific Forum CSIS and originally appeared in "Southeast Asia from Scott Circle" on April 3, 2014. _


On March 30, the Philippines submitted a memorial detailing its arguments and evidence against China's nine-dash line and other aspects of Beijing's South China Sea claims to an arbitration tribunal at The Hague. The 10-volume, nearly 4,000-page document marks a bold step by Manila, and one that Beijing seems to have believed never would actually happen. The Philippines chose the right course. Now the international community must weigh in and convince China of that fact.

China has refused to take part in the case since it was first brought by the Philippines in January 2013. It has also exerted considerable pressure on Manila to abandon the arbitration proceedings. As the deadline for the memorial approached and pressure failed to alter the Philippine position, Beijing switched to the carrot. It reportedly offered Manila incentives to drop the case, including trade benefits and a mutual withdrawal of ships from Scarborough Shoal, which China occupied in April 2012. But the Philippines did not budge. An incident near a reef in the Spratly Islands on March 29 helps explain why.

Second Thomas Shoal is a submerged reef, part of which breaks the waterline at low tide. It lies on the Philippines' presumed continental shelf but, like every feature within the nine-dash line, is claimed by China. The Philippine Navy intentionally grounded the BRP _Sierra Madre_ on the reef in 1999 to garrison troops as a deterrent to further Chinese expansion in the area.

Every few months for 15 years, the Philippine Navy has sent fresh troops and supplies to Second Thomas Shoal. Last year, with memories of the Scarborough Shoal seizure still fresh, Chinese ships began regularly patrolling near Second Thomas and harassing Philippine ships that approached. It escalated these provocations in early March by running off a vessel carrying supplies and, allegedly, construction materials, for the Filipino garrison. Manila responded by dropping supplies to its troops from the air.

On March 29, the Philippines sent another ship, but this time it invited foreign press along to document the Chinese response. The resupply ship was harassed by a Chinese Coast Guard vessel that demanded it leave the area and repeatedly turned across the smaller boat's path, forcing it to veer away to avoid a collision - all while foreign journalists watched. Eventually the Philippine ship entered shallower waters and escaped, delivering long-overdue supplies and troops to replace the garrison at Second Thomas Shoal.

The incident underscored a lesson that the Philippines learned well after Scarborough Shoal: China has no intention of compromising on its claims, restricting them to the bounds of international law, or treating fellow claimants as equal parties to the disputes.

Despite frequent insistence from Beijing that its claims in the South China Sea are based on international law and encompass only the "islands and adjacent waters" within the nine-dash line, Chinese actions tell a different story. Second Thomas Shoal is not an island or even a rock. It is a low-tide elevation that is not subject to any independent territorial claim under the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea or customary international law. The shoal belongs to whomever has sovereignty over the continental shelf on which it rests - by all indications the Philippines.

China has not restricted its underwater claims to the continental shelf of the Philippines. In January three Chinese ships patrolled James Shoal, a completely submerged feature on Malaysia's continental shelf, and held a ceremony swearing to defend Chinese sovereignty over it. Where Beijing makes tenuous legal arguments for its claims to Scarborough Shoal and disputed islets in the Spratlys, it offers none for its claims to Second Thomas or James Shoal.

Such claims, along with increasingly aggressive tactics by Chinese maritime forces, have pushed more complacent nations closer to the Philippine position. Malaysian officials have grown increasingly vocal in meetings with ASEAN counterparts since the Chinese patrols at James Shoal. Even in Indonesia, which had previously tried to distance itself from the dispute, officials appear to be growing concerned. On March 12, an official with the office of the coordinating minister for political, legal, and security affairs acknowledged that the nine-dash line does in fact illegally overlap Indonesia's exclusive economic zone north of the Natuna Islands. Foreign Minister Marty Natalegawa tempered that statement a week later, but reiterated that Indonesia considers the nine-dash line unacceptable. Officials in Jakarta seem to be recognizing that, if allowed, Beijing will stake claim to everything within the nine-dash line - islands, waters, and the seabed beneath.

Negotiations have failed so far to make much progress on managing, much less resolving, the South China Sea disputes. No other claimant has the military capabilities to resist determined Chinese aggression, the Philippines least of all. And the United States will not intervene militarily except in the case of an outright act of war. That leaves the Philippines only one recourse - the law. Manila is paying a cost for its case, but it has correctly determined that the cost of complacency would be higher.

Many of the Philippines' neighbors, including Indonesia, Malaysia, and Vietnam, have vouched for Manila's right to pursue legal action but have shied away from more forthright support for the arbitration case. Extraregional players have been more vocal, especially Japan and the United States. The US government grew more explicit in its criticism of the nine-dash line this year, with Assistant Secretary of State Daniel Russel calling it illegal during testimony before Congress. On the same day that the Philippines filed its memorial, the State Department issued a press statement supporting the effort for "greater legal certainty and compliance with the international law of the sea."

US support for the Philippines' case against China is about more than supporting a treaty ally or curbing the atavistic tendencies of a rising power. It is about defending an international system of law and norms. Nearly every nation, including China, is a signatory to the Law of the Sea. Even those that have not ratified it, including the United States, operate under its rules. And the most fundamental of those rules have been recognized by the International Court of Justice and others as customary international law.

Nations large and small have restricted their maritime claims to the bounds of international law, even in those areas where they consider themselves to have a special prerogative, such as the Caribbean for the United States and the Arctic for Russia. If China, by virtue of size or force of arms, is free to ignore that framework, then the entire edifice risks being discredited. And no nation, China included, would find its security and prosperity better served by a return to the pre-20th-century system of might-makes-right relations.

Whether the arbitration tribunal will find that it has jurisdiction in the Philippines' case is uncertain. But if it does, the judges will rule at least partially in the Philippines' favor. That ruling will not restrict China's claims to above-water features in the nine-dash line, but it will likely invalidate its claims, such as to Second Thomas Shoal, that clearly violate customary international law.

Beijing maintains that it will not abide by any such ruling. The Philippines can only hope to protect its interests by pursuing the case anyway. That leaves the international community, and the United States in particular, to convince China that preserving the international rule of law and playing the part of a responsible power will serve its interests better than will thumbing its nose at the community of nations.

_Gregory Poling is a fellow at the Sumitro Chair for Southeast Asia Studies at CSIS. This article originally appeared in "Southeast Asia from Scott Circle" on April 3, 2014._

The Philippines' South China Sea Memorial: Sailing into the Wind / ISN

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Wholegrain

Srinivas said:


> *Dismounting China from the South China Sea
> China's growing energy needs and overlapping territorial claims place its energy security on a collision course with its smaller, weaker neighbors*
> China's economy requires increased access to resources, especially when managing the needs of approximately 20% of the world's population.
> 
> China's growing energy needs and overlapping territorial claims in the resource-rich South China Sea place their energy security on a collision course with its smaller, weaker neighbors.
> 
> The most recent issue is China's increasingly hard-lined approach to the Scarborough Reef, approximately 4 times farther away from China than it is to the Philippines.
> 
> *Historic lens*
> 
> *China backs its South China Sea claims through a Chinese map produced in 1947, Chinese Foreign Minister Zhou Enlai’s 1951 statement, and the discovery of the Belitung Wreck in 1998.
> 
> Please make your own opinions regarding the legitimacy of a map created in 1947 citing a historical claim. Minister Zhou’s statement denounced the San Francisco Peace Treaty – as China was not invited – and further declared Chinese ownership of the Spratly, Paracel, and Pratas Islands.
> 
> Furthermore, Beijing portrayed the Belitung Wreck as “[Tang Dynasty] artifacts at the bottom of [Indonesian coastal waters],” however failed to mention that the dhow (a lateen-rigged ship with one or two masts) was not a "Chinese vessel that had a seafaring purpose in the region," but is instead debated to have been an Arabian or Indian ship.*
> 
> _Even if it was a Chinese trade ship, a sunken vessel possibly lost at sea doesn’t really pass the legitimacy test for a territorial claim._
> 
> *Legal lens*
> 
> In addition to questionable historical interpretations, China tries to strengthen its claims with outdated legal decisions.
> 
> In 2010 and again in 2013, China attempted to gain ownership of up to two-thirds of Okinawa’s continental shelf by arguing Okinawa was a former Chinese vassal state and cited the 1969 North Sea Continental Shelf Case ruling to strengthen its cause.
> 
> However, this form of coastal delineation was superseded by the 1973 to 1982 drafting of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), which replaced the natural prolongation argument with the 200 nautical mile exclusive economic zone (EEZ) – as demonstrated in 1982 (Libya v. Tunisia) and again upheld in 1985 (Malta v. Libya).
> 
> Additionally, Article 12 of UNCLOS defines islets as land masses incapable of sustaining life and therefore ineligible for EEZ status. Without this EEZ status, they cannot be used by Beijing (or any other country) to create a maritime boundary, such as Beijing’s Nine-Dash Line.
> 
> However, when we look at the Philippines’ and other countries’ disputes with China, we start to see some legitimacy of ownership. For example – the obvious distance factor aside – some countries have had prior habitation on the islets, whereas China has not.
> 
> Additionally, several of the claimant countries either have developed or are exploring ways to develop tourism (beaches, diving, fishing, etc), which assert possession over the area.
> 
> Other avenues have included deploying military contingents or setting up civilian communities on these islets to demonstrate physical occupation.
> 
> These countermeasures are in addition to the 1994 decision, determined by UNCLOS Article 121, which created international maritime boundaries – that China chooses to ignore.
> 
> Combined, these cursory examples prove Beijing lacks solid historical, occupational, and legal claims in the region.
> 
> *Ways forward*
> 
> Beijing’s branding of the South China Sea as one of its “core interests” will only compound matters.
> 
> Previous “core interests” include Taiwan, Tibet, and the former East Turkmenistan and generally means China will refuse to negotiate where they would need to concede territory; use force to protect their interests; and impose a regional order – an obviously bleak picture.
> 
> Moreover, China’s modus operandi for dealing with territorial claims is a 3-pronged approach; which includes delays in dispute resolution, consolidation of claims, and preventing the opposing country from strengthening their claims.
> 
> To many Asia-Pacific observers, Beijing’s heavy-handed approach is reminiscent of the “middle kingdom,” a time in China's imperialistic past when rulers, emboldened by the “mandate of heaven,” threatened and subdued all non-Chinese nations if they failed to pay tribute or showed deference.
> 
> Which is why China was angered when the Philippines didn’t back down and instead filed their territorial dispute in the Permanent Court of Arbitration on March 30, 2014.
> 
> To maintain regional stability, everyone’s motivation needs to be understood. For example, China’s hard-line approach may be rooted in the fact that it is 80 to 90% dependent on foreign oil; has a massive, growing population; and the Communist Chinese Party leadership must deliver continued high-growth to maintain its position.
> 
> On the other hand, as Dana Dillon suggests, China is viewed as the neighbor on the street who tries to own your yard, your driveway, and your mailbox, but allows you to keep your house.
> 
> Mainland China should be more like Taiwan – in April 2013 Japan and Taiwan concluded a fishing agreement surrounding the disputed Senkaku islands.
> 
> Following Taiwan's lead, Mainland China can prove that is dedicated to the Rule of Law and is not simply a reincarnation of the Middle Kingdom.
> 
> Instead of increasing tensions with the possibility of a mistaken calculation leading to conflict, Taiwan and Japan sat down, discussed their fishing requirements, and signed an agreement.
> 
> Their territorial dispute remains unsolved; however, both sides enjoy the new status quo and prove that even when a dispute exists, so too does an amiable solution for both sides.
> 
> Thus, we have a golden opportunity for China and the Philippines to work together, demonstrate that they support the Rule of Law and are capable of solving problems in a legal and friendly fashion. – Rappler.com
> 
> Dismounting China from the South China Sea



The article fails that both the Republic of China and France each launched competing claims to the Spratly Islands in the 1930s, but the Spanish and then American ruled colonial Philippines *never claimed the Spratlys*.

The Philippines only found out about the Spratlys when Tomas Cloma claimed he discovered the Spratly islands as "Terra nullius" in 1947 - a blatant lie, because China and France were already claiming and garrisoning the islands. The Philippines only began claimined the Spratlys in the 1970s when President Marcos "bought" Cloma's claim to the islands for one peso.

Vietnam Joins the World - Google Books

Where in the World is the Philippines?: Debating Its National Territory - Rodolfo Severino - Google Books

The Law of the Sea and Northeast Asia: A Challenge for Cooperation - HÅ­i-gwÅn Pak - Google Books

Spratly Islands (reefs, South China Sea) -- Encyclopedia Britannica

The British found Chinese fisherrmen from Hainan on the Spratly islands in the 19th century. They then launched the first formal legal claim to the islands.

Dictionary of Contemporary Chinese Military History - Larry M. Wortzel, Robin D. S. Higham - Google Books

War Or Peace in the South China Sea? - Google Books

Security and International Politics in the South China Sea: Towards a co ... - Google Books

Taiwan named Vietnam as the number one threat in the Spratly islands.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/NH10Ad01.html

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/NF13Ad01.html

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/JB22Ad02.html

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/CHINA-01-140213.html

Vietnam is viewed as the primary enemy in Taiwan's military exercises in the Spratlys.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/LG29Ad03.html

Photo: Taiwan military exercises with Vietnam as an imaginary enemy generals admit Taiping Island - Military News

Taiwan to conduct live-fire Taiping Island drill in Sept. - The China Post

Vietnam Demands Taiwan Cancel Spratly Island Live Fire Drill - Bloomberg

Vietnam's angry at Taiwan as it stages live-fire drill in the Spratlys

Vietnam protests Taiwan's fire drill exercise plan on island | Politics | Thanh Nien Daily

Vietnam protests Taiwan’s fire drill exercise plan on island — Vietnam Breaking News

Even Lee Tung-Hui, who is pro-Japanese and pro-Independence, loudly attacked the Philippines over its claims to the Spratlys and said that Taiwan would assert its rights to the entire archipelago.

China News: Asia Times Online is a quality Internet-only publication that reports and examines geopolitical, political, economic and business issues. Cheap Holiday Packages



> And to emphasize Taiwan's newly declared sovereignty, the Taiwanese Foreign Ministry issued a statement on July 13 proclaiming Taiwanese sovereignty over the Spratly Islands in the South China Sea. The statement condemned recent Philippine and Malaysian activities on the islands and declared that the Spratlys and the entire South China Sea belong to Taiwan ''legally, historically, geographically, or in reality."



You will not find one Taiwanese, even pro-independence Hoklo and Hakka Taiwanese, give up its claim to the entire Spratly islands and they reject all the other southeast asian countries claims. Many of them- I am talking about pro-independence Taiwanese here- in fact hold largely negative stereotyps and views of most southeast asians, including Filipinos.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Raphael

Both of OP's 'articles' are from the discredited neocon think tank CSIS, one of the primary agitators that spread rumors about Iraqi WMDs to justify US invasion. Educated people wouldn't dare associate themselves with such toxic sources, OP must not understand his humiliation right now. Can't OP diversify his propaganda sources? Or maybe he can't act without his propaganda overseer's permission?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Srinivas

The debate is how can China claim entire "South China Sea" that too most of the claims are of 1940's.

Philippines has submitted their case based on UNCLOS and the Island proximity based on the law. How can any one claim a sea??

Even the islands were named after "Spartly" an englishmen.

China never governed these islands and some of them are uninhabitable. Accept the truth that CCP is not in any position to explain its nine dashed line except giving meaning less and comic warnings.



Wholegrain said:


> The article fails that both the Republic of China and France each launched competing claims to the Spratly Islands in the 1930s, but the Spanish and then American ruled colonial Philippines *never claimed the Spratlys*.
> 
> The Philippines only found out about the Spratlys when Tomas Cloma claimed he discovered the Spratly islands as "Terra nullius" in 1947 - a blatant lie, because China and France were already claiming and garrisoning the islands. The Philippines only began claimined the Spratlys in the 1970s when President Marcos "bought" Cloma's claim to the islands for one peso.
> 
> Vietnam Joins the World - Google Books
> 
> Where in the World is the Philippines?: Debating Its National Territory - Rodolfo Severino - Google Books
> 
> The Law of the Sea and Northeast Asia: A Challenge for Cooperation - HÅi-gwÅn Pak - Google Books
> 
> Spratly Islands (reefs, South China Sea) -- Encyclopedia Britannica
> 
> The British found Chinese fisherrmen from Hainan on the Spratly islands in the 19th century. They then launched the first formal legal claim to the islands.
> 
> Dictionary of Contemporary Chinese Military History - Larry M. Wortzel, Robin D. S. Higham - Google Books
> 
> War Or Peace in the South China Sea? - Google Books
> 
> Security and International Politics in the South China Sea: Towards a co ... - Google Books
> 
> Taiwan named Vietnam as the number one threat in the Spratly islands.
> 
> http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/NH10Ad01.html
> 
> http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/NF13Ad01.html
> 
> http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/JB22Ad02.html
> 
> http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/CHINA-01-140213.html
> 
> Vietnam is viewed as the primary enemy in Taiwan's military exercises in the Spratlys.
> 
> http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/LG29Ad03.html
> 
> Photo: Taiwan military exercises with Vietnam as an imaginary enemy generals admit Taiping Island - Military News
> 
> Taiwan to conduct live-fire Taiping Island drill in Sept. - The China Post
> 
> Vietnam Demands Taiwan Cancel Spratly Island Live Fire Drill - Bloomberg
> 
> Vietnam's angry at Taiwan as it stages live-fire drill in the Spratlys
> 
> Vietnam protests Taiwan's fire drill exercise plan on island | Politics | Thanh Nien Daily
> 
> Vietnam protests Taiwan’s fire drill exercise plan on island — Vietnam Breaking News
> 
> Even Lee Tung-Hui, who is pro-Japanese and pro-Independence, loudly attacked the Philippines over its claims to the Spratlys and said that Taiwan would assert its rights to the entire archipelago.
> 
> China News: Asia Times Online is a quality Internet-only publication that reports and examines geopolitical, political, economic and business issues. Cheap Holiday Packages
> 
> 
> 
> You will not find one Taiwanese, even pro-independence Hoklo and Hakka Taiwanese, give up its claim to the entire Spratly islands and they reject all the other southeast asian countries claims. Many of them- I am talking about pro-independence Taiwanese here- in fact hold largely negative stereotyps and views of most southeast asians, including Filipinos.


----------



## EastSea

Wholegrain said:


> The article fails that both the Republic of China and France each launched competing claims to the Spratly Islands in the 1930s, but the Spanish and then American ruled colonial Philippines *never claimed the Spratlys*.
> 
> The Philippines only found out about the Spratlys when Tomas Cloma claimed he discovered the Spratly islands as "Terra nullius" in 1947 - a blatant lie, because China and France were already claiming and garrisoning the islands. The Philippines only began claimined the Spratlys in the 1970s when President Marcos "bought" Cloma's claim to the islands for one peso.
> 
> Vietnam Joins the World - Google Books
> 
> Where in the World is the Philippines?: Debating Its National Territory - Rodolfo Severino - Google Books
> 
> The Law of the Sea and Northeast Asia: A Challenge for Cooperation - HÅi-gwÅn Pak - Google Books
> 
> Spratly Islands (reefs, South China Sea) -- Encyclopedia Britannica
> 
> The British found Chinese fisherrmen from Hainan on the Spratly islands in the 19th century. They then launched the first formal legal claim to the islands.
> 
> Dictionary of Contemporary Chinese Military History - Larry M. Wortzel, Robin D. S. Higham - Google Books
> 
> War Or Peace in the South China Sea? - Google Books
> 
> Security and International Politics in the South China Sea: Towards a co ... - Google Books
> 
> Taiwan named Vietnam as the number one threat in the Spratly islands.
> 
> http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/NH10Ad01.html
> 
> http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/NF13Ad01.html
> 
> http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/JB22Ad02.html
> 
> http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/CHINA-01-140213.html
> 
> Vietnam is viewed as the primary enemy in Taiwan's military exercises in the Spratlys.
> 
> http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/LG29Ad03.html
> 
> Photo: Taiwan military exercises with Vietnam as an imaginary enemy generals admit Taiping Island - Military News
> 
> Taiwan to conduct live-fire Taiping Island drill in Sept. - The China Post
> 
> Vietnam Demands Taiwan Cancel Spratly Island Live Fire Drill - Bloomberg
> 
> Vietnam's angry at Taiwan as it stages live-fire drill in the Spratlys
> 
> Vietnam protests Taiwan's fire drill exercise plan on island | Politics | Thanh Nien Daily
> 
> Vietnam protests Taiwan’s fire drill exercise plan on island — Vietnam Breaking News
> 
> Even Lee Tung-Hui, who is pro-Japanese and pro-Independence, loudly attacked the Philippines over its claims to the Spratlys and said that Taiwan would assert its rights to the entire archipelago.
> 
> China News: Asia Times Online is a quality Internet-only publication that reports and examines geopolitical, political, economic and business issues. Cheap Holiday Packages
> 
> 
> 
> You will not find one Taiwanese, even pro-independence Hoklo and Hakka Taiwanese, give up its claim to the entire Spratly islands and they reject all the other southeast asian countries claims. Many of them- I am talking about pro-independence Taiwanese here- in fact hold largely negative stereotyps and views of most southeast asians, including Filipinos.



Vietnam Nguyen Dynasty controlled Islands for many hundreds year ago. China KMT claimed it from 1947.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## chhota bheem

some of the claims are really funny


----------



## Wholegrain

Srinivas said:


> The debate is how can China claim entire "South China Sea" that too most of the claims are of 1940's.
> 
> Philippines has submitted their case based on UNCLOS and the Island proximity based on the law. How can any one claim a sea??
> 
> Even the islands were named after "Spartly" an englishmen.
> 
> China never governed these islands and some of them are uninhabitable. Accept the truth that CCP is not in any position to explain its nine dashed line except giving meaning less and comic warnings.



*Read*. The Republic of China is in Taiping (Itu Aba island) and explorered and claimed the Spratly archipelago before the Philippines was even an independent country.

Vietnam Joins the World - Google Books

Where in the World is the Philippines?: Debating Its National Territory - Rodolfo Severino - Google Books

The Law of the Sea and Northeast Asia: A Challenge for Cooperation - HÅi-gwÅn Pak - Google Books

Spratly Islands (reefs, South China Sea) -- Encyclopedia Britannica



EastSea said:


> Vietnam Nguyen Dynasty controlled Islands for many hundreds year ago. China KMT claimed it from 1947.



And somehow the British found zero Vietnamese, but instead found Chinese fisherrmen from Hainan on the islands. This was in the 19th century when the Nguyen dynasty was still in power.

Dictionary of Contemporary Chinese Military History - Larry M. Wortzel, Robin D. S. Higham - Google Books

War Or Peace in the South China Sea? - Google Books

Security and International Politics in the South China Sea: Towards a co ... - Google Books

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Srinivas

Wholegrain said:


> *Read*. The Republic of China is in Taiping (Itu Aba island) and explorered and claimed the Spratly archipelago before the Philippines was even an independent country.
> 
> Vietnam Joins the World - Google Books
> 
> Where in the World is the Philippines?: Debating Its National Territory - Rodolfo Severino - Google Books
> 
> The Law of the Sea and Northeast Asia: A Challenge for Cooperation - HÅi-gwÅn Pak - Google Books
> 
> Spratly Islands (reefs, South China Sea) -- Encyclopedia Britannica
> 
> 
> 
> And somehow the British found zero Vietnamese, but instead found Chinese fisherrmen from Hainan on the islands. This was in the 19th century when the Nguyen dynasty was still in power.
> 
> Dictionary of Contemporary Chinese Military History - Larry M. Wortzel, Robin D. S. Higham - Google Books
> 
> War Or Peace in the South China Sea? - Google Books
> 
> Security and International Politics in the South China Sea: Towards a co ... - Google Books



This Island was used as stopgap Island by Chinese fishermen during their voyages, The point here is you only control or claim a territory when you administer it.

Japanese are the first to administer this Island by making this a municipality.

Secondly how can China claim a sea based on a tiny island which is less than 1 Km??

How can China warn any ships passing on International waters??

Don't you think CCP is over reacting??



Raphael said:


> Both of OP's 'articles' are from the discredited neocon think tank CSIS, one of the primary agitators that spread rumors about Iraqi WMDs to justify US invasion. Educated people wouldn't dare associate themselves with such toxic sources, OP must not understand his humiliation right now. Can't OP diversify his propaganda sources? Or maybe he can't act without his propaganda overseer's permission?



I do not work for cents to entertain a master .... I post articles based on my interests and current affairs.

Guys who work for propaganda department and for money know how to diversify the sources and how to spread lies. The guys who trained you should have told you that if the article has valid points then it is worth discussing.

Seems payments are being delayed these days ... frustration is evident in every post ..... 

Chinese talk about humiliation and abuses, that is what their society is all about and that is what CCP will go through in the near future.


----------



## Wholegrain

Srinivas said:


> This Island was used as stopgap Island by Chinese fishermen during their voyages, The point here is you only control or claim a territory when you administer it.
> 
> Japanese are the first to administer this Island by making this a municipality.
> 
> Secondly how can China claim a sea based on a tiny island which is less than 1 Km??
> 
> How can China warn any ships passing on International waters??
> 
> Don't you think CCP is over reacting??
> 
> 
> 
> I do not work for cents to entertain a master .... I post articles based on my interests and current affairs.
> 
> Guys who work for propaganda department and for money know how to diversify the sources and how to spread lies. The guys who trained you should have told you that if the article has valid points then it is worth discussing.
> 
> Seems payments are being delayed these days ... frustration is evident in every post .....
> 
> Chinese talk about humiliation and abuses, that is what their society is all about and that is what CCP will go through in the near future.



I challenge you to find where China claimed the entire South China Sea as its territorial waters. It deliberately *did not say* that the nine dash line represented a maritime boundary for territorial waters.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Srinivas

Wholegrain said:


> I challenge you to find where China claimed the entire South China Sea as its territorial waters. It deliberately *did not say* that the nine dash line represented a maritime boundary for territorial waters.



Remove the nine dashed line what else is left in the sea??

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Wholegrain

Srinivas said:


> Remove the nine dashed line what else is left in the sea??



Nine dash line is to show the extent of China's claims of the islands, while showing a it linked in a contiguous manner to mainland China on a map. China obviously and definitely does not claim the big mass of water northwest of Luzon island of the Philippines, there aren't even islands in that area. China has also not blocked any international shipping through the South China Sea.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Srinivas

Wholegrain said:


> Nine dash line is to show the extent of China's claims of the islands, while showing a it linked in a contiguous manner to mainland China on a map. China obviously and definitely does not claim the big mass of water northwest of Luzon island of the Philippines, there aren't even islands in that area. China has also not blocked any international shipping throug the South China Sea,



This is a lie from you Dude!!

China not only claims the sea but also warning its neighbors who are doing fishing and oil exploration.

India is doing oil exploration near to Vietnam 






India warned against exploring oil in disputed South China Sea - The Times of India

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/MJ05Ae03.html

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887323717004578157033857113510

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Wholegrain

Srinivas said:


> This is a lie from you Dude!!
> 
> China not only claims the sea but also warning its neighbors who are doing fishing and oil exploration.
> 
> India is doing oil exploration near to Vietnam
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> India warned against exploring oil in disputed South China Sea - The Times of India
> 
> http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/MJ05Ae03.html
> 
> http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887323717004578157033857113510



China challenged exploration *only within the EEZ (Exclusive Economic zone) of the disputed islands, whoch extend a few hundred miles from the islands themselves. It did not claim the entire South China Sea or all the waters in the nine dash line as Chinese territorial waters. FYI, the EEZ of the Spratlys would not cover alot of what is in the nine dash line, such as the waters Northwest to Luzon island where there aren't any islands*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Srinivas

Wholegrain said:


> China challenged exploration *only within the EEZ (Exclusive Economic zone) of the disputed islands, whoch extend a few hundred miles from the islands themselves. It did not claim the entire South China Sea or all the waters in the nine dash line as Chinese territorial waters. FYI, the EEZ of the Spratlys would not cover alot of what is in the nine dash line, such as the waters Northwest to Luzon island where there aren't any islands*



I have given the proof about Indian ONGC exploration in Vietnam SEZ and Chinese warning !!


----------



## Wholegrain

Srinivas said:


> I have given the proof about Indian ONGC exploration in Vietnam SEZ and Chinese warning !!



It is in *the SEZ of some of the disputed Spratly islands*, not of the Vietnamese mainland.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Arya Desa

What the heck is the "South china Sea"? Pretty sure it's called the West Philippines Sea


----------



## Srinivas

Wholegrain said:


> It is in *the SEZ of some of the disputed Spratly islands*, not of the Vietnamese mainland.



Dude ..... search for the block 128 in the map I have posted it is located in Vietnam's SEZ and Vietnam has permissions to explore.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## bolo

Srinivas said:


> The debate is how can China claim entire "South China Sea" that too most of the claims are of 1940's.
> 
> Philippines has submitted their case based on UNCLOS and the Island proximity based on the law. How can any one claim a sea??
> 
> Even the islands were named after "Spartly" an englishmen.
> 
> China never governed these islands and some of them are uninhabitable. Accept the truth that CCP is not in any position to explain its nine dashed line except giving meaning less and comic warnings.


India was named by an Englishman.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Srinivas

bolo said:


> India was named by an Englishman.



The word India is a derivative from the river Sindhu , which is not an english name.

We call this land Bharat and Hindustan also.

Bharat is the oldest name than India.


----------



## fallstuff

Power will decide the islands ownership.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Mr Second Back

Everyday shows off how fine the weapon are, how strong the PLA is. Yes, China and PLA are very strong, but Philippines occupies and stops the strong China by only an old tiny ship, and have stayed there for more than 10 years. What's the point or and mean of equipping nice weapon? You say those places are yours, so just prove that!


----------



## BlueEyedRonin

Want to thank the poster for posting my co-authored op-ed piece onto this site.

My colleague is affiliated with CSIS; however, I am not. I stand by what we jointly wrote and look forward to your comments on my blog found here. Just do a search for "BlueEyedRonin" and "South China Sea". I'd provide a direct link; however, as this is my first post -- the site won't let me 

--Chris Kuchma



Raphael said:


> Both of OP's 'articles' are from the discredited neocon think tank CSIS, one of the primary agitators that spread rumors about Iraqi WMDs to justify US invasion. Educated people wouldn't dare associate themselves with such toxic sources, OP must not understand his humiliation right now. Can't OP diversify his propaganda sources? Or maybe he can't act without his propaganda overseer's permission?



Independently written--I have no affiliation with CSIS. Were it CSIS, it would have been in their journal -- this is why we chose Rappler (a philippines-based newspaper).

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## sincity

What South China Sea have to do with Indian? Who are the Indian to decide which nation have the right to claim the island in South China Sea? Indian opinion don't matter in the settlement of the dispute territory in South China Sea. Waste your time to debate with Indian on South China Sea issue, India have no stage in the claim of the island dispute.


----------



## Genesis

Mr Second Back said:


> Everyday shows off how fine the weapon are, how strong the PLA is. Yes, China and PLA are very strong, but Philippines occupies and stops the strong China by only an old tiny ship, and have stayed there for more than 10 years. What's the point or and mean of equipping nice weapon? You say those places are yours, so just prove that!



As soon as we surpass US stregnth in Asia, and have the ability to deny any reinforcements at the same time we will strike, or talk, depending on the situation. More likely talk, cause Philippines and Vietnam infrastructure sucks, and we have to build as we go, which is a huge burden. So talk is better. 

Right now Philippines can have just a stick and it wouldn't matter, this dispute is between China and US, not China and Philippines. 





As to China should be more like Taiwan? US should be more like Canada, stay away from other people's business.


Lastly, there won't be a possibility of war within 10 years. We will wait, for with each passing year, our position gets stronger, we are plugging holes in our armed forces, and by 2025, carriers, fighters, 10+ 12,000 ton DDG, and a total of at least 30 AEGIS ships, and everything and anything will be ready. By then maybe the 4th carrier will also be ready. I know the third will be ready sometime on or before 2020.

To those that follow Chinese developments, and ASEAN developments know China holds all the cards, and time is our friend.

Lest we forget, by 2025, also the nominal GDP leader for a few years, and finally become part of the developed country group.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## bolo

Mr Second Back said:


> Everyday shows off how fine the weapon are, how strong the PLA is. Yes, China and PLA are very strong, but Philippines occupies and stops the strong China by only an old tiny ship, and have stayed there for more than 10 years. What's the point or and mean of equipping nice weapon? You say those places are yours, so just prove that!


Eventually everyone will die, so why try to make your life comfortable? Why try to become rich and successful? Why go to school? Why not just be a homeless person or be a drifter and do what you want? Failed Logic, M.r Second.


----------



## EastSea

China map stated that last point of China is Hainan Island.






Vietnam map printed in time Ngyen Dynasty Vietnam, stated Hoang Sa (Paracels) Islands was part of territory of Vietnam.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## sincity

China won't drop their claim of South China Sea, pointless to debate which nation have the right to the South China Sea, fight a naval war in next decade and decide one and for all.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## bolo

sincity said:


> China won't drop their claim of South China Sea, pointless to debate which nation have the right to the South China Sea, fight a naval war in next decade and decide one and for all.


Agreed. Too much fxxking yapping not enough fighting.


----------



## BoQ77

Vietnam has the deal of oil exploration with Russia, India, USA ... 
China, go and fight with them ...


----------



## EastSea

sincity said:


> China won't drop their claim of South China Sea, pointless to debate which nation have the right to the South China Sea, fight a naval war in next decade and decide one and for all.



China don't have right to claim our Islands. using force to occupation is action of aggressors, all kind aggressors were punished.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Pakistanisage

China is the master of south china sea.

Get over it and move on.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cirr

A crying baby is not a good baby but still a baby。

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Jeffery Gray

The Chinese have always been capable of occupying Vietnam, keeping it is another issue. Post some more photos of those female guirellas, they are cool....


----------



## Mr Second Back

bolo said:


> Eventually everyone will die, so why try to make your life comfortable? Why try to become rich and successful? Why go to school? Why not just be a homeless person or be a drifter and do what you want? Failed Logic, M.r Second.


You are no need to make yourself comfortable here. Just check the every news about SCS in the local Chinese website. What China government's attitude on this area has been insulted and laughed by nearly every Chinese people. Everyday show how strong the economy is, how fine the weapon are. So what? Dare China do what Russia dare to do? So what? Now the poor Vietnam has occupied most of islands, dare you take them back? Philippines, whatever you guys call them bitch or poor country, or monkey country, JUST use an old tiny ship, Philippines can stay there and have lived there more than 10 years! So tell me the meaning of the nice weapon and strong economy? If every Island belongs to China, why not take them back like what UK did in Folkland?, like Russia did in Georgia and Crimea? Affraid of USA's punishment? Russia did! So what?


----------



## Srinivas

cirr said:


> A crying baby is not a good baby but still a baby。









This baby is what I got as first image when I typed CIRR in google image search


----------



## Mr Second Back

Genesis said:


> As soon as we surpass US stregnth in Asia, and have the ability to deny any reinforcements at the same time we will strike, or talk, depending on the situation. More likely talk, cause Philippines and Vietnam infrastructure sucks, and we have to build as we go, which is a huge burden. So talk is better.
> 
> Right now Philippines can have just a stick and it wouldn't matter, this dispute is between China and US, not China and Philippines.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As to China should be more like Taiwan? US should be more like Canada, stay away from other people's business.
> 
> 
> Lastly, there won't be a possibility of war within 10 years. We will wait, for with each passing year, our position gets stronger, we are plugging holes in our armed forces, and by 2025, carriers, fighters, 10+ 12,000 ton DDG, and a total of at least 30 AEGIS ships, and everything and anything will be ready. By then maybe the 4th carrier will also be ready. I know the third will be ready sometime on or before 2020.
> 
> To those that follow Chinese developments, and ASEAN developments know China holds all the cards, and time is our friend.
> 
> Lest we forget, by 2025, also the nominal GDP leader for a few years, and finally become part of the developed country group.


You are right to some extend, but GDP and weapon is just part of reason. Tell me how the Russian GDP is and How the Russian weapon are? At least, China has the same ability on nuclear weapon to threaten USA, and SCS is China's KEY INTREST, isnt it? So why Russia dare to say NO when their key intrest was threatened in Georgia and Crimea, even Russia's GDP cannot be campared with China? What I mean is the most important is who take the weapon, but not the others! If the whole China unite together and tell the world the SCS is China's KEY INTREST indeed! Even USA, they also dare not enter in SCS area now. Unfortunately, keep playing Tai Chi.


----------



## Pangu

Mr Second Back said:


> You are no need to make yourself comfortable here. Just check the every news about SCS in the local Chinese website. What China government's attitude on this area has been insulted and laughed by nearly every Chinese people. Everyday show how strong the economy is, how fine the weapon are. So what? Dare China do what Russia dare to do? So what? Now the poor Vietnam has occupied most of islands, dare you take them back? Philippines, whatever you guys call them bitch or poor country, or monkey country, JUST use an old tiny ship, Philippines can stay there and have lived there more than 10 years! So tell me the meaning of the nice weapon and strong economy? If every Island belongs to China, why not take them back like what UK did in Folkland?, like Russia did in Georgia and Crimea? Affraid of USA's punishment? Russia did! So what?



You are correct in your assessment. China is being too political polite, too nice to let Philippines camp on shoal for so long. Already, many Chinese are getting tired of this niceties bullshit. So, when our govt. will just blow that damn junk out of the water? Like how Philippines navy attacked Taiwanese fishing boat & kill one poor guy. I hope it will be soon.


----------



## Genesis

Mr Second Back said:


> You are right to some extend, but GDP and weapon is just part of reason. Tell me how the Russian GDP is and How the Russian weapon are? At least, China has the same ability on nuclear weapon to threaten USA, and SCS is China's KEY INTREST, isnt it? So why Russia dare to say NO when their key intrest was threatened in Georgia and Crimea, even Russia's GDP cannot be campared with China? What I mean is the most important is who take the weapon, but not the others! If the whole China unite together and tell the world the SCS is China's KEY INTREST indeed! Even USA, they also dare not enter in SCS area now. Unfortunately, keep playing Tai Chi.



Russia inherited much from the Soviets, back in the day, Soviet and US GDP isn't that different, plus Soviets spent mad money on weapons.

China only spends about 2% sometimes a bit more sometimes less of our GDP.

Technology takes time, Russia has been part of the industrial revolution early on, while China more or less really got into the game in 1910s, stopped for some 40 years, then again when Deng came to power. 

China is united, but China is also looking to the future, if all said and done, economy is the most important aspect, military needs cash and cash comes from economy.

Ukraine is nothing to the US, the US didn't lose Ukraine, they never had it, but they do have the China seas and vast interests in the China seas. They will do something if they could.

Our goal is to make sure they can't. But it is not time yet. 


There's a difference between brave and stupid. Going too far right now is more stupid than brave. China still needs to be an economic super power after the war too dude, we can't just take the seas and alienate the developed world. We don't want the leadership of the third world, we want to split the developed world.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Mr Second Back

Genesis said:


> Russia inherited much from the Soviets, back in the day, Soviet and US GDP isn't that different, plus Soviets spent mad money on weapons.
> 
> China only spends about 2% sometimes a bit more sometimes less of our GDP.
> 
> Technology takes time, Russia has been part of the industrial revolution early on, while China more or less really got into the game in 1910s, stopped for some 40 years, then again when Deng came to power.
> 
> China is united, but China is also looking to the future, if all said and done, economy is the most important aspect, military needs cash and cash comes from economy.
> 
> Ukraine is nothing to the US, the US didn't lose Ukraine, they never had it, but they do have the China seas and vast interests in the China seas. They will do something if they could.
> 
> Our goal is to make sure they can't. But it is not time yet.
> 
> 
> There's a difference between brave and stupid. Going too far right now is more stupid than brave. China still needs to be an economic super power after the war too dude, we can't just take the seas and alienate the developed world. We don't want the leadership of the third world, we want to split the developed world.


I hope the SCS problem will not be more and more complicated and international and not being the cancer of China if continuing such situation. As an ordinary people, just can hope that, it mainly depends on the leadships of China. Nothing to say more.


----------



## Rechoice

Pakistanisage said:


> China is the master of south china sea.
> 
> Get over it and move on.



Sea and Islands belong to us Vietnam not pakistan.

You could give to China your sea and seaport in Indian ocean. if you want.



cirr said:


> A crying baby is not a good baby but still a baby。



aggressive boy is not good boy, but still a boy.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## sincity

Mr Second Back said:


> I hope the SCS problem will not be more and more complicated and international and not being the cancer of China if continuing such situation. As an ordinary people, just can hope that, it mainly depends on the leadships of China. Nothing to say more.


 


You want China to start a war over those dispute territory, China just buy their time and will calculate their strategy over fighting a war in South China Sea, China build up their military capacity not to fight against Phillippine or VietNam but to have the naval power to confront US navy in Pacific. China don't need much of naval power to fight against both VietNam and Phillippine in a naval war. China rather not to fight a naval war over the South China Sea but wait till China military modernization achieve their objective of effectively closing the gap between their navy and the US navy in the future. When China can field 3 aircraft carrier battle group in South China and the backdrop of their airforce from mainland China that a potent military force for the US navy to confront in South China. All China need to dissuade US navy from intervention in South China sea conflict that will ensure China will achieve their objective with their military build up.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## INDIC

BoQ77 said:


> Vietnam has the deal of oil exploration with Russia, India, USA ...
> China, go and fight with them ...



Russia also.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

sincity said:


> You want China to start a war over those dispute territory, China just buy their time and will calculate their strategy over fighting a war in South China Sea, China build up their military capacity not to fight against Phillippine or VietNam but to have the naval power to confront US navy in Pacific. China don't need much of naval power to fight against both VietNam and Phillippine in a naval war. China rather not to fight a naval war over the South China Sea but wait till China military modernization achieve their objective of effectively closing the gap between their navy and the US navy in the future. When China can field 3 aircraft carrier battle group in South China and the backdrop of their airforce from mainland China that a potent military force for the US navy to confront in South China. All China need to dissuade US navy from intervention in South China sea conflict that will ensure China will achieve their objective with their military build up.



your parents were feed with Vietnamese rice to over lived her in Cho Lon district. don't show of your betrayal mentality to Vietnamese who let your parents a chance to lived here in Vietnam from long time. so you have chance to move to USA recently.

Dont troll here kid. Vietnamese look down at you, betrayal Chinese mentality.



Mr Second Back said:


> I hope the SCS problem will not be more and more complicated and international and not being the cancer of China if continuing such situation. As an ordinary people, just can hope that, it mainly depends on the leadships of China. Nothing to say more.



your ID is "chu hai" in Vietnamese. you have your fantasia about your nick mane. I'm south Vietnamese too, I understand your idea.

I think your true Wu yue Chinese.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

sincity said:


> China won't drop their claim of South China Sea, pointless to debate which nation have the right to the South China Sea, fight a naval war in next decade and decide one and for all.


to deter Chinese/CCP aggression, Vietnam needs a fleet of nuclear attack submarines, equipped with nuclear cruise missiles, such as this toy Yasen/Graney-class here from Russia. only fools believe to peaceful rise of China.

when Russia FM Lavrov made a visit to Hanoi, he promised to provide any weapons Vietnam seeks. as soon as we got them, if anyone wants a war, just go ahead.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

Genesis said:


> As soon as we surpass US stregnth in Asia, and have the ability to deny any reinforcements at the same time we will strike, or talk, depending on the situation. More likely talk, cause Philippines and Vietnam infrastructure sucks, and we have to build as we go, which is a huge burden. So talk is better.
> 
> Right now Philippines can have just a stick and it wouldn't matter, this dispute is between China and US, not China and Philippines.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As to China should be more like Taiwan? US should be more like Canada, stay away from other people's business.
> 
> 
> Lastly, there won't be a possibility of war within 10 years. We will wait, for with each passing year, our position gets stronger, we are plugging holes in our armed forces, and by 2025, carriers, fighters, 10+ 12,000 ton DDG, and a total of at least 30 AEGIS ships, and everything and anything will be ready. By then maybe the 4th carrier will also be ready. I know the third will be ready sometime on or before 2020.
> 
> To those that follow Chinese developments, and ASEAN developments know China holds all the cards, and time is our friend.
> 
> Lest we forget, by 2025, also the nominal GDP leader for a few years, and finally become part of the developed country group.


so in 10 years you want to rage wars against some of your neighbors if they don´t comply with your demands?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

Viet said:


> so in 10 years you want to rage wars against some of your neighbors if they don´t comply with your demands?



he will be a yoker.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

EastSea said:


> he will be a yoker.


yes, he is one of chinese clowns who love constantly talking of wars and downgrading weaker opponents, especially Vietnam and the Philippines.

I wonder when China starts to bomb Hawaii?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

Viet said:


> yes, he is one of chinese clowns who love constantly talking of wars and downgrading weaker opponents, especially Vietnam and the Philippines.
> 
> I wonder when China starts to bomb Hawaii?



China dare not do that, he is cowdish boy here in Asia. China has his habitat to bully his friend but she do not dare to face wth her enemy USA.

USA did China to be yoker in world simposium, the comedian planted by USA super man.


----------



## Rechoice

China is master kid to suck Russia and USA only.

Reactions: Negative Rating Negative Rating:
1


----------



## ViXuyen

The chinaclowns like to grab land and the Russian have a lot of land to be grabbed from. The Russian will make sure that the chinaclowns will forever be busy with their neighbors be it Vietnam, India, Korea, Japan. If the chinaclowns don't have to concentrate their military on their neighbors, they will start taking on the Russian in a snap

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Srinivas

ViXuyen said:


> The chinaclowns like to grab land and the Russian have a lot of land to be grabbed from. The Russian will make sure that the chinaclowns will forever be busy with their neighbors be it Vietnam, India, Korea, Japan. If the chinaclowns don't have to concentrate their military on their neighbors, they will start taking on the Russian in a snap



Now that USA stood firmly against China in East sea, Chinese CCP warnings department seems clueless and they know they cannot pressure Japanese any more.

Once USA clarifies the stance on SCS and India ups the ante against China regarding AP and Azad Kashmir.

Then we are in Game, today China may be an economic power but they have to think about Germany of world war 2 when they lost and divided.

Reactions: Like Like:

1


----------



## shuttler

"*The most recent issue is China's increasingly hard-lined approach to the Scarborough Reef, approximately 4 times farther away from China than it is to the Philippines*."

This is one of the poorest statements written by the OP
it is not hard lined by China
It is hard-lined by the pinoys and backed by the hegemony usa
Do you know that distance does not answer calls to sovereignty?


----------



## sincity

Viet said:


> to deter Chinese/CCP aggression, Vietnam needs a fleet of nuclear attack submarines, equipped with nuclear cruise missiles, such as this toy Yasen/Graney-class here from Russia. only fools believe to peaceful rise of China.
> 
> when Russia FM Lavrov made a visit to Hanoi, he promised to provide any weapons Vietnam seeks. as soon as we got them, if anyone wants a war, just go ahead.


----------



## Zero_wing

shuttler said:


> "*The most recent issue is China's increasingly hard-lined approach to the Scarborough Reef, approximately 4 times farther away from China than it is to the Philippines*."
> 
> This is one of the poorest statements written by the OP
> it is not hard lined by China
> It is hard-lined by the pinoys and backed by the hegemony usa
> Do you know that distance does not answer calls to sovereignty?



Then go to ITCLOS go we are all telling you guys you chinese imperials just cant get your way


----------



## sincity

Viet Nam need to build up your own military to confront China in South China Sea with the territory you lay claim to. This is the fact, China won't give in to Viet Nam to drop their claim of the territory dispute with Viet Nam. Who will give into a small nation demand to drop their dispute with Viet Nam, you shouldn't expect such a nonesense China drop their claim for the right to the South China Sea. China don't need a powerful navy to take on Viet Nam or Phillippine. That a fact. In other for Viet Nam to fight a naval war with China, Viet Nam require atleast another 50 yrs of naval build up but will never have the capacity to fight China in a naval warfare. That a fact, accept the fact China naval power is far ahead of Viet Nam in term of quantiy of naval ships and better quality. Part of life strong always in control of the weak, if Viet Nam bigger and stronger than China, Viet Nam will also use Viet Nam military advantage over China to force them to negotiate any dispute in Viet Nam term. In this world no such thing as a nation act aggressively against their neighbor without further their own national interest.



EastSea said:


> your parents were feed with Vietnamese rice to over lived her in Cho Lon district. .
> 
> 
> 
> don't show of your betrayal mentality to Vietnamese who let your parents a chance to lived here in Vietnam from long time. so you have chance to move to USA recently.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't hold VietNamese Citizenship, I don't need to show any support to Viet Nam in any way or in any form. Just because Viet Nam and China have a territorial dispute don't meant I have to agree with Vietnamese reason on this issue and start to anti China on the behalf of Viet Nam. There is currently no personal tight between me and Viet Nam in any form, I have to hold Viet Nam dearly to my heart for me to betray Viet Nam. I no longer have any linkage with Viet Nam to strongly oppose or support Viet Nam in anyway.


----------



## sincity

sincity said:


> Viet Nam need to build up your own military to confront China in South China Sea with the territory you lay claim to. This is the fact, China won't give in to Viet Nam to drop their claim of the territory dispute with Viet Nam. Who will give into a small nation demand to drop their dispute with Viet Nam, you shouldn't expect such a nonesense China drop their claim for the right to the South China Sea. China don't need a powerful navy to take on Viet Nam or Phillippine. That a fact. In other for Viet Nam to fight a naval war with China, Viet Nam require atleast another 50 yrs of naval build up but will never have the capacity to fight China in a naval warfare. That a fact, accept the fact China naval power is far ahead of Viet Nam in term of quantiy of naval ships and better quality. Part of life strong always in control of the weak, if Viet Nam bigger and stronger than China, Viet Nam will also use Viet Nam military advantage over China to force them to negotiate any dispute in Viet Nam term. In this world no such thing as a nation act aggressively against their neighbor without further their own national interest.


 





I don't hold VietNamese Citizenship, I don't need to show any support to Viet Nam in any way or in any form. Just because Viet Nam and China have a territorial dispute don't meant I have to agree with Vietnamese reason on this issue and start to anti China on the behalf of Viet Nam. There is currently no personal tight between me and Viet Nam in any form, I have to hold Viet Nam dearly to my heart for me to betray Viet Nam. I no longer have any linkage with Viet Nam to strongly oppose or support Viet Nam in anyway


----------



## ViXuyen

sincity said:


> . *China don't need a powerful navy to take on Viet Nam* .


Yes, they do. Our weakest point was in the mid 2000's and China did not even dare to take on us, not even NOW, so when? I have said this many times, the time for China to attack Vietnam is a couple of years ago or even NOW yet the Spratly is still in status quo.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## sincity

ViXuyen said:


> Yes, they do. Our weakest point was in the mid 2000's and China did not even dare to take on us, not even NOW, so when? I have said this many times, the time for China to attack Vietnam is a couple of years ago or even NOW yet the Spratly is still in status quo.


 


Then why you in here cry and whine about China aggressive? China haven't fought a naval battle with Viet Nam over 20 yrs.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## bolo

ViXuyen said:


> Yes, they do. Our weakest point was in the mid 2000's and China did not even dare to take on us, not even NOW, so when? I have said this many times, the time for China to attack Vietnam is a couple of years ago or even NOW yet the Spratly is still in status quo.


Ok. So you guys are strong now, why come on PDF and bitch about China's aggressiveness? Why don't your strong country launch a military assault on China?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ViXuyen

bolo said:


> Ok. So you guys are strong now, why come on PDF and bitch about China's aggressiveness? Why don't your strong country launch a military assault on China?


I only see u guys bitch about how strong your navy is but up till this point, you still have not had the balls to attack us, not even back in 2000's when we were so WEAK.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## rott

Mr Second Back said:


> Everyday shows off how fine the weapon are, how strong the PLA is. Yes, China and PLA are very strong, but Philippines occupies and stops the strong China by only an old tiny ship, and have stayed there for more than 10 years. What's the point or and mean of equipping nice weapon? You say those places are yours, so just prove that!


Better to have it and not need it, rather than to need it and not have it. Simple logic.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## xunzi

Whenever the Vietnamese talk, it always make me LAUGH. LOLOL

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## TheTruth

chhota bheem said:


> some of the claims are really funny



What's funny are your claims to "Northeast India"


----------



## chhota bheem

TheTruth said:


> What's funny are your claims to "Northeast India"


Have you checked the 9 dash line,we can both laugh together,its really funny.
Check that and comeback we can have a good laugh,if thats not enough i can give you more to laught for.come back after checking the 9 dash line first.


----------



## TheTruth

chhota bheem said:


> Have you checked the 9 dash line,we can both laugh together,its really funny.
> Check that and comeback we can have a good laugh,if thats not enough i can give you more to laught for.come back after checking the 9 dash line first.



The 9 dash line might be funny, but it seems less flimsy than a chicken's neck, don't you think?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## sincity

India need military troop to rule over Kasmir with brutal occupation, Indian army major killed in the last couple of days in fighting with Kasmir insurgency. Indian claim China imperialist mindset of wanting to grab territorial of China neighbor but Indian forget they hold Kasmir hostage with their military force. Indian opinion carry no weight in any issue related to territorial dispute of other nation.


----------



## chhota bheem

TheTruth said:


> The 9 dash line might be funny, but it seems less flimsy than a chicken's neck, don't you think?


Good now that we agree the 9 dash line is funny,now lets go to the next one,since you brought up chicken neck,let me confirm are you refering to NE Indian,if so,not only the chicken neck,i have the whole chicken to talk to,it will be funny.


----------



## Wholegrain

ViXuyen said:


> Your war machines do not work, your tacticians suk dik, your troopers are cowardice. That's why your loser military has lost every war against us since 938 A.D. There is nothing to brag about superior losing streak LOL



Is this why Vietnam got:

Defeated by Cham in 1326

Defeated by Ming China in 1407

Mạc Đăng Dung grovelled before the Ming army and gave up land to China to prevent an invasion in 1540

Ming China, 1368-1644: A Concise History of a Resilient Empire - John W. Dardess - Google Books

Defeated by France and Spain in 1862

Entire country occupied and colonized by France in 1885


----------



## ViXuyen

Wholegrain said:


> Is this why Vietnam got:
> 
> Defeated by Cham in 1326
> 
> Defeated by Ming China in 1407
> 
> Mạc Đăng Dung grovelled before the Ming army and gave up land to China to prevent an invasion in 1540
> 
> Ming China, 1368-1644: A Concise History of a Resilient Empire - John W. Dardess - Google Books
> 
> Defeated by France and Spain in 1862
> 
> Entire country occupied and colonized by France in 1885


 And Vietnam defeated Ming China in 1427, capturing 100,000 Chinese in battle. The defeat in 1407 does not count as most of the Ho Dynasty troops did not fight in protest of their support for the Tran. Yet, it took the Ming 6 months to "defeat" Vietnam

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Wholegrain

Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> Just need some Vietnamese women militia, our girls captured hundreds of PLA troops in 1979, like this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See also: China-Vietnam Border War, 30 Years Later - Photo Essays - TIME



These are minority Tay and Nung women, not ethnic Vietnamese Kinh women, because the Kinh women got killed or captured.

I posted the cemetery for Kinh women militia who died in the 1979 war on this thread. The places of birth on the gravestones indicate they are Kinh. See here.

South China Sea News & Discussions | Page 262

What happened was the real Viet Kinh female militia got killed, so Vietnamese propaganda photographers had to get some random Tay or Nung women for propaganda pictures.

All the photos of Vietnamese women militia captured by China also show Kinh women, there are zero minority women to be found.



ViXuyen said:


> And Vietnam defeated Ming China in 1427, capturing 100,000 Chinese in battle. The defeat in 1407 does not count as most of the Ho Dynasty troops did not fight in protest of their support for the Tran. Yet, it took the Ming 6 months to "defeat" Vietnam



The Ming army fighting Le Loi was also made out of Kinh from the Hanoi and Red River Delta area, I discussed this already.

Chinese general arrested for gilded lifestyle | Page 6

And most of the Vietnamese Kinh ancestors in the Red River Delta and Hanoi supported the Ming rule. The Kinh were "people of the capital".

It was Le Loi, who lived in the Vietnamese borderlands in Thanh Hoa where the "barbarian" Trai people (people of the camps) lived, where he started his rebellion. Le Loi himself was NOT a Kinh, but a Trai, and his army was made out of Trai people. The Kinh viewed Trai as barbarians.

Many of the Kinh Vietnamese in the Red River plain *supported the Ming*. Le Loi's anti Ming rebellion, was actually a Trai vs Kinh war, with the Kinh fighting for Ming against the Le dynasty Trai.

A History of the Vietnamese - K. W. Taylor - Google Books

A History of the Vietnamese - K. W. Taylor - Google Books

Strange Parallels: Southeast Asia in Global Context, C. 800 - 1830 - Victor B. Lieberman - Google Books

A History of the Vietnamese - K. W. Taylor - Google Books

A History of the Vietnamese - K. W. Taylor - Google Books

A History of the Vietnamese - K. W. Taylor - Google Books

A History of the Vietnamese - K. W. Taylor - Google Books

A History of the Vietnamese - K. W. Taylor - Google Books

A History of the Vietnamese - K. W. Taylor - Google Books

The Trai people are ancestors of the Muong people. The Trai/Muong and Kinh were both of the same origin originally, speaking the same language. The difference between the Trai/Muong and Kinh, is that Kinh Vietnamese were influenced by Chinese culture, religion, and language, with Kinh adopting thousands of Chinese loanwords in their language, using Chu Nom characters, adopting Chinese Daoism, Confucianism, government, and alot of Chinese culture. The Trai/Muong refused to adopt it and maintained the original "barbarian" culture from before Chinese influenced Vietnam.

Muong people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Le Loi was a Trai/Muong, with a Trai/Muong army fighting against the Ming-Kinh Vietnamese forces. After Le Loi overthrew Ming rule, he and Le dynasty historians like Ngo Si Lien engaged in rewriting Vietnamese history to justify their own rule over Vietnam.

The Le dynasty then created the Kinh as a new ethnicity to seperate Vietnamese from minorities and other peoples. Before that, there was no seperate Kinh ethnic group, thats why the "Kinh" of the Red River region supported the Ming.

Goddess on the Rise: Pilgrimage and Popular Religion in Vietnam - Philip Taylor - Google Books

Human Rights in Asia: A Comparative Legal Study of Twelve Asian ... - Google Books

Historical Dictionary of the Peoples of the Southeast Asian Massif - Jean Michaud - Google Books

Postwar Vietnam: Dynamics of a Transforming Society - Google Books

The Art of Not Being Governed: An Anarchist History of Upland Southeast Asia - James C. Scott - Google Books

Culture and Customs of Vietnam - Mark W. McLeod, Thi Dieu Nguyen - Google Books

Le dynasty historian Ngo Si Lien started inventing tales about Vietnamese being descended from Shennong and making stories up about the Hung Kings, to extend the Kinh's ethnic history back to antiquity to 4,000 years ago. Before that, the Kinh didn't have a seperate distinct history.

A History of the Vietnamese - K. W. Taylor - Google Books

Blood and Soil: A World History of Genocide and Extermination from Sparta to ... - Ben Kiernan - Google Books


----------



## k_arura

Raphael said:


> Both of OP's 'articles' are from the discredited neocon think tank CSIS, one of the primary agitators that spread rumors about Iraqi WMDs to justify US invasion. Educated people wouldn't dare associate themselves with such toxic sources, OP must not understand his humiliation right now. Can't OP diversify his propaganda sources? Or maybe he can't act without his propaganda overseer's permission?



It is time India tore a page from China and *created *some maps and throw them at Beijing's face showing whole of China part of India 2000 years ago  And let China prove them wrong!

I find it highly interesting that the usually feisty Pakistanis suddenly lose their voices when China's issue comes up. Any thoughts/ideas why?



sincity said:


> India need military troop to rule over Kasmir with brutal occupation, Indian army major killed in the last couple of days in fighting with Kasmir insurgency. Indian claim China imperialist mindset of wanting to grab territorial of China neighbor but Indian forget they hold Kasmir hostage with their military force. Indian opinion carry no weight in any issue related to territorial dispute of other nation.



You mean like our civil war in 1867?


----------



## ViXuyen

Wholegrain said:


> These are minority Tay and Nung women, not ethnic Vietnamese Kinh women, because the Kinh women got killed or captured.
> 
> I posted the cemetery for Kinh women militia who died in the 1979 war on this thread. The places of birth on the gravestones indicate they are Kinh. See here.
> 
> South China Sea News & Discussions | Page 262
> 
> What happened was the real Viet Kinh female militia got killed, so Vietnamese propaganda photographers had to get some random Tay or Nung women for propaganda pictures.
> 
> All the photos of Vietnamese women militia captured by China also show Kinh women, there are zero minority women to be found.
> 
> 
> 
> The Ming army fighting Le Loi was also made out of Kinh from the Hanoi and Red River Delta area, I discussed this already.
> 
> Chinese general arrested for gilded lifestyle | Page 6
> 
> And most of the Vietnamese Kinh ancestors in the Red River Delta and Hanoi supported the Ming rule. The Kinh were "people of the capital".
> 
> It was Le Loi, who lived in the Vietnamese borderlands in Thanh Hoa where the "barbarian" Trai people (people of the camps) lived, where he started his rebellion. Le Loi himself was NOT a Kinh, but a Trai, and his army was made out of Trai people. The Kinh viewed Trai as barbarians.
> 
> Many of the Kinh Vietnamese in the Red River plain *supported the Ming*. Le Loi's anti Ming rebellion, was actually a Trai vs Kinh war, with the Kinh fighting for Ming against the Le dynasty Trai.
> 
> A History of the Vietnamese - K. W. Taylor - Google Books
> 
> A History of the Vietnamese - K. W. Taylor - Google Books
> 
> Strange Parallels: Southeast Asia in Global Context, C. 800 - 1830 - Victor B. Lieberman - Google Books
> 
> A History of the Vietnamese - K. W. Taylor - Google Books
> 
> A History of the Vietnamese - K. W. Taylor - Google Books
> 
> A History of the Vietnamese - K. W. Taylor - Google Books
> 
> A History of the Vietnamese - K. W. Taylor - Google Books
> 
> A History of the Vietnamese - K. W. Taylor - Google Books
> 
> A History of the Vietnamese - K. W. Taylor - Google Books
> 
> The Trai people are ancestors of the Muong people. The Trai/Muong and Kinh were both of the same origin originally, speaking the same language. The difference between the Trai/Muong and Kinh, is that Kinh Vietnamese were influenced by Chinese culture, religion, and language, with Kinh adopting thousands of Chinese loanwords in their language, using Chu Nom characters, adopting Chinese Daoism, Confucianism, government, and alot of Chinese culture. The Trai/Muong refused to adopt it and maintained the original "barbarian" culture from before Chinese influenced Vietnam.
> 
> Muong people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Le Loi was a Trai/Muong, with a Trai/Muong army fighting against the Ming-Kinh Vietnamese forces. After Le Loi overthrew Ming rule, he and Le dynasty historians like Ngo Si Lien engaged in rewriting Vietnamese history to justify their own rule over Vietnam.
> 
> The Le dynasty then created the Kinh as a new ethnicity to seperate Vietnamese from minorities and other peoples. Before that, there was no seperate Kinh ethnic group, thats why the "Kinh" of the Red River region supported the Ming.
> 
> Goddess on the Rise: Pilgrimage and Popular Religion in Vietnam - Philip Taylor - Google Books
> 
> Human Rights in Asia: A Comparative Legal Study of Twelve Asian ... - Google Books
> 
> Historical Dictionary of the Peoples of the Southeast Asian Massif - Jean Michaud - Google Books
> 
> Postwar Vietnam: Dynamics of a Transforming Society - Google Books
> 
> The Art of Not Being Governed: An Anarchist History of Upland Southeast Asia - James C. Scott - Google Books
> 
> Culture and Customs of Vietnam - Mark W. McLeod, Thi Dieu Nguyen - Google Books
> 
> Le dynasty historian Ngo Si Lien started inventing tales about Vietnamese being descended from Shennong and making stories up about the Hung Kings, to extend the Kinh's ethnic history back to antiquity to 4,000 years ago. Before that, the Kinh didn't have a seperate distinct history.
> 
> A History of the Vietnamese - K. W. Taylor - Google Books
> 
> Blood and Soil: A World History of Genocide and Extermination from Sparta to ... - Ben Kiernan - Google Books


Lengthy post full of shit history written by some third rated historian using seconary sources. How the like of u becoming a think tank is beyound one's imagination. Say hi to Lieu Thang for me, we had the Ming's best man head on a pike. Don't forget to mention Ming shi explicitely stated how humiliated the defeat of Ming at Annam was. 100,000 Ming troops got captured alive, Vuong Thong surrendred, Lieu Thang lost his head LOL

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Wholegrain

ViXuyen said:


> Lengthy post full of shit history written by some third rated historian using seconary sources. How the like of u becoming a think tank is beyound one's imagination. Say hi to Lieu Thang for me, we had the Ming's best man head on a pike. Don't forget to mention Ming shi explicitely stated how humiliated the defeat of Ming at Annam was. 100,000 Ming troops got captured alive, Vuong Thong surrendred, Lieu Thang lost his head LOL



That history was written by a Professor of Vietnamese studies at Cornell University.

Keith Weller Taylor - Department of Asian Studies

Also another Professor who said that Le Loi was his men were non-Kinh. On page 95 of this document.

http://www.researchgate.net/profile..._the_15th_century/file/60b7d51df84438389a.pdf

Dr Tana Li - Researchers - ANU

Professor Keith Taylor wrote an entire article about Le Loi not being Kinh.

“On Being Muonged,” Asian Ethnicity, vol. 2, nbr. 1 (March 2001):25-34. 

The Kinh in Red River Delta fought for the Ming against Le Loi's Trai/Muong army, most people who got killed by Le Loi's men were Kinh.


----------



## ViXuyen

Wholegrain said:


> That history was written by a Professor of Vietnamese studies at Cornell University.
> 
> Keith Weller Taylor - Department of Asian Studies
> 
> Also another Professor who said that Le Loi was his men were non-Kinh. On page 95 of this document.
> 
> http://www.researchgate.net/profile..._the_15th_century/file/60b7d51df84438389a.pdf
> 
> Dr Tana Li - Researchers - ANU
> 
> Professor Keith Taylor wrote an entire article about Le Loi not being Kinh.
> 
> “On Being Muonged,” Asian Ethnicity, vol. 2, nbr. 1 (March 2001):25-34.
> 
> The Kinh in Red River Delta fought for the Ming against Le Loi's Trai/Muong army, most people who got killed by Le Loi's men were Kinh.


 Rubbish, the Ming sent reinforcement from China with 100,000 men and these third-rated historians are saying otherwise? Read Mingshi please

You're the biggest troll on this forum.



Wholegrain said:


> That history was written by a Professor of Vietnamese studies at Cornell University.
> 
> Keith Weller Taylor - Department of Asian Studies
> 
> Also another Professor who said that Le Loi was his men were non-Kinh. On page 95 of this document.
> 
> http://www.researchgate.net/profile..._the_15th_century/file/60b7d51df84438389a.pdf
> 
> Dr Tana Li - Researchers - ANU
> 
> Professor Keith Taylor wrote an entire article about Le Loi not being Kinh.
> 
> “On Being Muonged,” Asian Ethnicity, vol. 2, nbr. 1 (March 2001):25-34.
> 
> *The Kinh in Red River Delta fought for the Ming* against Le Loi's Trai/Muong army, most people who got killed by Le Loi's men were Kinh.


Other than quoting from third-rated historian who even made up an ethnicity called "Trai", what other sources do you provide? I find it hilarious that you avoid quoting the contemporary/primary sources like Dai Viet Su Ky Toan Thu or even your Ming shi LOL

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

xunzi said:


> Whenever the Vietnamese talk, it always make me LAUGH. LOLOL



we don't care what idiot do.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Wholegrain

ViXuyen said:


> Rubbish, the Ming sent reinforcement from China with 100,000 men and these third-rated historians are saying otherwise? Read Mingshi please
> 
> You're the biggest troll on this forum.
> 
> 
> Other than quoting from third-rated historian who even made up an ethnicity called "Trai", what other sources do you provide? I find it hilarious that you avoid quoting the contemporary/primary sources like Dai Viet Su Ky Toan Thu or even your Ming shi LOL



I said *most who got killed*, not captured, Le Loi killed mostly Kinh people in his war.

Trai is the same as Muong people. Tana Li said Le Loi and his men were a Muong or Lao, and Taylor wrote an arricle on Le Loi being Muong, "Nguoi Trai" means people of the Camps, they were Muong people who lived at the border unlike "Nguoi Kinh" people of the capital. Kinh people called Muong "Barbarians" because of their lifestyle, which is why they were also called Camp people.


----------



## ViXuyen

Wholegrain said:


> I said *most who got killed*, not captured, Le Loi killed mostly Kinh people in his war.


Is that what you got from Mingshi? LOL. Stop making up history, you troll. Vietnamese fought for the Ming China? Sure, Mr. Troll. I even busted all of the Western historians that you quoted for making up lie about an ethnicity called "Trai". 

The Ming sent 100k reinforment to fight Le Loi. The Ming sent their best military man 柳升 to Annam and he lost his head (literally). 100k Ming troops surrendered including their Supreme commander 王通. the Ming suffered utterly humiliation that was written by even Ming shi. What are you trying to hide?



Wholegrain said:


> I said *most who got killed*, not captured, Le Loi killed mostly Kinh people in his war.
> 
> Trai is the same as Muong people. Tana Li said Le Loi and his men were a Muong or Lao, and Taylor wrote an arricle on Le Loi being Muong, "Nguoi Trai" means people of the Camps, they were Muong people who lived at the border unlike "Nguoi Kinh" people of the capital. Kinh people called Muong "Barbarians" because of their lifestyle, which is why they were also called Camp people.


 Show me which Vietnamese sources have the word "Trai" people?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Wholegrain

ViXuyen said:


> Is that what you got from Mingshi? LOL. Stop making up history, you troll. Vietnamese fought for the Ming China? Sure, Mr. Troll. I even busted all of the Western historians that you quoted for making up lie about an ethnicity called "Trai".
> 
> The Ming sent 100k reinforment to fight Le Loi. The Ming sent their best military man 柳升 to Annam and he lost his head (literally). 100k Ming troops surrendered including their Supreme commander 王通. the Ming suffered utterly humiliation that was written by even Ming shi. What are you trying to hide?



Trai is the same as Muong people. Tana Li said Le Loi and his men were a Muong or Lao, and Taylor wrote an arricle on Le Loi being Muong, "Nguoi Trai" means people of the Camps, they were Muong and oth minority people who lived at the border unlike "Nguoi Kinh" people of the capital. Kinh people called Muong and other bordereles as "Barbarians" because of their lifestyle, which is why they were also called Camp people.

Tana Li even gave primary sources about Le Loi's ethnicity in the footnotes, including Ming sources, did you even read? 

http://www.researchgate.net/profile..._the_15th_century/file/60b7d51df84438389a.pdf

You are the one who made up history, you claimed Bac le ambush was done by Vietnamese LOL.

Taiwan fisherman shot dead by Filipino military | Page 37


----------



## ViXuyen

Wholegrain said:


> Trai is the same as Muong people. Tana Li said Le Loi and his men were a Muong or Lao, and Taylor wrote an arricle on Le Loi being Muong, "Nguoi Trai" means people of the Camps, they were Muong and oth minority people who lived at the border unlike "Nguoi Kinh" people of the capital. Kinh people called Muong and other bordereles as "Barbarians" because of their lifestyle, which is why they were also called Camp people.
> 
> Tana Li even gave primary sources about Le Loi's ethnicity in the footnotes, including Ming sources, did you even read?
> 
> http://www.researchgate.net/profile..._the_15th_century/file/60b7d51df84438389a.pdf
> 
> You are the one who made up history, you claimed Bac le ambush was done by Vietnamese LOL.
> 
> Taiwan fisherman shot dead by Filipino military | Page 37


 There is no Trai people mentioned in Viet history, stop making up a claim and use who knows what sources as your "backup". Viet history mentioned he might be a Muong, but nowhere there is the word "Trai". His army was about 200k men and the population of the Muong at that time could not even number 200k and you have historians claiming that most of his army was ethnic Muong? I busted you and your historians for lying again. 

Remember, I busted your *** for making up "fact" that Bac Le was a Chinese ambush? I busted your *** for making up history that China militarily defeated French in Northern Vietnam, remember? LOL

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Wholegrain

ViXuyen said:


> Is that what you got from Mingshi? LOL. Stop making up history, you troll. Vietnamese fought for the Ming China? Sure, Mr. Troll. I even busted all of the Western historians that you quoted for making up lie about an ethnicity called "Trai".
> 
> The Ming sent 100k reinforment to fight Le Loi. The Ming sent their best military man 柳升 to Annam and he lost his head (literally). 100k Ming troops surrendered including their Supreme commander 王通. the Ming suffered utterly humiliation that was written by even Ming shi. What are you trying to hide?
> 
> 
> Show me which Vietnamese sources have the word "Trai" people?



The Tran dynasty called people who lived in Nghe An and Thanh hoa as Trai. Go look at the bibloigraphy in his book, he names the sources he use, both Vietnamese and Chihese.

A History of the Vietnamese - K. W. Taylor - Google Books


----------



## Fattyacids

Wholegrain said:


> The Tran dynasty called people who lived in Nghe An and Thanh hoa as Trai. Go look at the bibloigraphy in his book, he names the sources he use, both Vietnamese and Chihese.
> 
> A History of the Vietnamese - K. W. Taylor - Google Books



Your mentioning of US special envoy martin was brilliant.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ViXuyen

Wholegrain said:


> The Tran dynasty called people who lived in Nghe An and Thanh hoa as Trai. Go look at the bibloigraphy in his book, he names the sources he use, both Vietnamese and Chihese.
> 
> A History of the Vietnamese - K. W. Taylor - Google Books


Keith Taylor? Is this the guy who claims that Le Loi was a "Trai" ? LOL 

No Viet history books mention the word "Trai" my friend. Taylor's credibility or knowledge is already questionable with this kind of claim. Even comptemporary Viet primary sources are not sure if Le Loi was an ethnic Muong and yet Taylor a joe blow historian declares Le Loi was ethnic Muong. Not only that, this joe blow historian even declares Le Loi army was made up of mostly ethnic Muong. Heck, even contemporary Viet sources do not mention anything about the made up of Le Loi's army ethnicities, yet your joe blow historians are telling me that they got access to the listing of all the names of those 200k men in Le Loi army? LOL

Ming China got humiliated by the Le Dynasty and it is well documented by Mingshi, what are you trying to hide? LOL

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Wholegrain

ViXuyen said:


> There is no Trai people mentioned in Viet history, stop making up a claim and use who knows what sources as your "backup". Viet history mentioned he might be a Muong, but nowhere there is the word "Trai". His army was about 200k men and the population of the Muong at that time could not even number 200k and you have historians claiming that most of his army was ethnic Muong? I busted you and your historians for lying again.
> 
> Remember, I busted your *** for making up "fact" that Bac Le was a Chinese ambush? I busted your *** for making up history that China militarily defeated French in Northern Vietnam, remember? LOL



I urge everyone to look at the thread. ViXuyen did not even provide a *Vietnamese source* to claim Bac Le was done by Vietnamese. In fact she provided zero sources in total for any of the claims she made on that thread. @Grand Historian I remember your quote about "no sources". I provided sources by western historians with degrees from western universities. The Battle of Bang Bo and Retreat from Lang Son was a Chinese victory, and that was the end of the war in Northern Vietnam.

Even Vietnamese wikipedia couldn't full out lie, so they twisted the facts a little and added Vietnamese forces alongside the Chinese as participants in the ambush.

http://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trận_Bắc_Lệ



ViXuyen said:


> Keith Taylor? Is this the guy who claims that Le Loi was a "Trai" ? LOL
> 
> No Viet history books mention the word "Trai" my friend. Taylor's credibility or knowledge is already questionable with this kind of claim. Even comptemporary Viet primary sources are not sure if Le Loi was an ethnic Muong and yet Taylor a joe blow historian declares Le Loi was ethnic Muong. Not only that, this joe blow historian even declares Le Loi army was made up of mostly ethnic Muong. Heck, even contemporary Viet sources do not mention anything about the made up of Le Loi's army ethnicities, yet your joe blow historians are telling me that they got access to the listing of all the names of those 200k men in Le Loi army? LOL
> 
> Ming China got humiliated by the Le Dynasty and it is well documented by Mingshi, what are you trying to hide? LOL



Most of Le Loi's army was from Thanh Hoa, and most of Thanh hoa at the time was populated by minorities like the Muong, since it was a border province of Dai Viet.

Look at page 95 again, Le Loi's top followers all had names that meant sometihng derogatory or were insults, because they tried to transcribed their names from their native languages into Han Nom. 

http://www.researchgate.net/profile..._the_15th_century/file/60b7d51df84438389a.pdf

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Grand Historian

Wholegrain said:


> I urge everyone to look at the thread. ViXuyen did not even provide a *Vietnamese source* to claim Bac Le was done by Vietnamese. In fact she provided zero sources in total. @Grand Historian I remember your quote about "no sources". I provided sources by western historians with degrees from western universities.


Exactly that 's what I appreciate what you doing,you are also quoting third party sources ie Western Historians who would be less influenced by either Chinese or Vietnamese nationalism.

The Vietnamese on PDFclaim a lot of things yet they usually rely on Wikipedia or their own delusions.


----------



## ViXuyen

Wholegrain said:


> I urge everyone to look at the thread. ViXuyen did not even provide a *Vietnamese source* to claim Bac Le was done by Vietnamese. In fact she provided zero sources in total. @Grand Historian I remember your quote about "no sources". I provided sources by western historians with degrees from western universities.
> 
> Even Vietnamese wikipedia couldn't full out lie, so they twisted the facts a little and added Vietnamese forces alongside the Chinese as participants in the ambush.
> 
> http://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trận_Bắc_Lệ
> 
> 
> 
> Most of Le Loi's army was from Thanh Hoa, and most of Thanh hoa at the time was populated by minorities like the Muong, since it was a border province of Dai Viet.


 Did you edit that and add Chinese forces along with Vietnamese forces? Didn't I bust u for making up fact that the Chinese troops "crushed" the French in Tonkin?

You make up fact again. The border of Dai Viet expanded to Quang Nam province at the time of Le Loi. This province was populated by the ethnic Kinh since the 10th century. Thanh Hoa was barely populated, let alone having 200k people. Le Loi army was 200k to even 350k; I busted your historians for lying about the army of Le Loi was ethnic Muong majority. Ming China got defeated badly even with 100k reinforcement from China

Are you working with those joe blow historians to rewrite history?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Grand Historian

ViXuyen said:


> Are you working with those joe blow historians to rewrite history?


Keith Weller Taylor has much more credibility then a random forum user such as you.

What a hypocrite,you,EastSea and Rechoice are always whining about lost Baiyue land and how Southern Han should embrace you as brothers.


----------



## Wholegrain

ViXuyen said:


> Did you edit that and add Chinese forces along with Vietnamese forces? Didn't I bust u for making up fact that the Chinese troops "crushed" the French in Tonkin?
> 
> You make up fact again. The border of Dai Viet expanded to Quang Nam province at the time of Le Loi. This province was populated by the ethnic Kinh since the 10th century. Thanh Hoa was barely populated, let alone having 200k people. Le Loi army was 200k to even 350k; I busted your historians for lying about the army of Le Loi was ethnic Muong majority. Ming China got defeated badly even with 100k reinforcement from China
> 
> Are you working with those joe blow historians to rewrite history?





The article was written in 2009 by a Vietnamese, and right from the start it said that Qing forces were involved.

http://vi.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Trận_Bắc_Lệ&dir=prev&action=history

http://vi.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Trận_Bắc_Lệ&oldid=1985880

Thanh Hoa *borders LAOS*, (Lan Xang at the time of Le Loi) Tana Li even said that Le Loi was Lao if he was not a Muong. It was a border province.

http://www.researchgate.net/profile..._the_15th_century/file/60b7d51df84438389a.pdf


----------



## ViXuyen

Grand Historian said:


> Exactly that 's what I appreciate what you doing,you are also quoting third party sources ie Western Historians who would be less influenced by either Chinese or Vietnamese nationalism.
> 
> The Vietnamese on PDFclaim a lot of things yet they usually rely on Wikipedia or their own delusions.


Western historian


Grand Historian said:


> Keith Weller Taylor has much more credibility then a random forum user such as you.
> 
> What a hypocrite,you,EastSea and Rechoice are always whining about lost Baiyue land and how Southern Han should embrace you as brothers.


Taylor has more credibility than me because of what? Is he a Gospel? I busted Taylor for lying easily with many outrageous claims that he made that not even comtemporary Viet history sources would dare to make. 

Taylor is nothing in my eyes. If you want to use his sources as a backup to your argument; I suggest you ask Taylor to join PDF so I can school him



Wholegrain said:


> http://vi.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Trận_Bắc_Lệ&action=history
> 
> Thanh Hoa *borders LAOS*, (Lan Xang at the time of Le Loi) Tana Li even said that Le Loi was Lao if he was not a Muong. It was a border province.
> 
> http://www.researchgate.net/profile..._the_15th_century/file/60b7d51df84438389a.pdf


Bac Le was a Viet ambush; deal with it. French crushed china in Tonkin; deal with it. 

Thanh Hoa borders Laos so are half of Vietnam, genius. Did your historians go back in time to ask Le Loi was a Muong or Lao? Apparently, your historians make a claim on behalf of Le Loi that not even contemporary historians could make. Again, I busted you and your historians for making up facts.

Ming got crushed by Dai Viet; deal with it. Even your Mingshi does not deny it; why would you?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Grand Historian

ViXuyen said:


> Western historian


A Third party can shed new light on historical events.



ViXuyen said:


> Taylor has more credibility than me because of what? Is he a Gospel? I busted Taylor for lying easily with many outrageous claims that he made that not even comtemporary Viet history sources would dare to make.
> 
> Taylor is nothing in my eyes. If you want to use his sources as a backup to your argument; I suggest you ask Taylor to join PDF so I can school him


Taylor has a PHD and BA in History something which you lack.

What outrageous claims,Nationalistic Vietnamese can't accept that the Sincized Kinh welcomed the Ming while the unruly Trai didn't.

You claim Ming Shi said this Ming shi said that then quote the Hanzi if you can read it.

All this is coming from someone who thinks Dong Song civilized the Chinese,when in fact Vietnamese were the ones to copy surnames,script,language,architecture,customs,government etc.

Calling other people chinaman,idiot,stupid,confushit, while I never called Vietanmese member Vietcong,Monkey etc only trolls.


----------



## Wholegrain

ViXuyen said:


> Western historian
> 
> Taylor has more credibility than me because of what? Is he a Gospel? I busted Taylor for lying easily with many outrageous claims that he made that not even comtemporary Viet history sources would dare to make.
> 
> Taylor is nothing in my eyes. If you want to use his sources as a backup to your argument; I suggest you ask Taylor to join PDF so I can school him
> 
> 
> Bac Le was a Viet ambush; deal with it. French crushed china in Tonkin; deal with it.
> 
> Thanh Hoa borders Laos so are half of Vietnam, genius. Did your historians go back in time to ask Le Loi was a Muong or Lao? Apparently, your historians make a claim on behalf of Le Loi that not even contemporary historians could make. Again, I busted you and your historians for making up facts.
> 
> Ming got crushed by Dai Viet; deal with it. Even your Mingshi does not deny it; why would you?



LOL, ViXuyen is claiming that both Western historians and the French in 1884 were liars, since they said China did it and that French were defeated at Bang Bo (Zhennan Pass).

The Cambridge History of China - Google Books

Throne and Mandarins: China's Search for a Policy During the Sino-French ... - Lloyd E. Eastman - Google Books

http://books.google.com/books?id=j1aGAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA87&dq=the+June+1884+Baclé+incident+is+perhaps+the+most+well+known+of+the+Chinese+military+victories&hl=en&sa=X&ei=paldU__fOcbjsATvxIG4Cw&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=the%20June%201884%20Baclé%20incident%20is%20perhaps%20the%20most%20well%20known%20of%20the%20Chinese%20military%20victories&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=j1aGAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA88&dq=Spurred+on+by+their+defeat+at+Baclé,+the+French+decided+to+blockade+the+Chinese+island+of+Taiwan+(Formosa).+Beginning+on+5+August+1884,+Admiral+Lespes+bombarded+Taiwan's+forts+at+Jilong+(Keelung)+Harbor+on+the+northeast+coast&hl=en&sa=X&ei=16hdU-feAdfNsQTmxIH4DA&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Spurred%20on%20by%20their%20defeat%20at%20Baclé%2C%20the%20French%20decided%20to%20blockade%20the%20Chinese%20island%20of%20Taiwan%20(Formosa).%20Beginning%20on%205%20August%201884%2C%20Admiral%20Lespes%20bombarded%20Taiwan's%20forts%20at%20Jilong%20(Keelung)%20Harbor%20on%20the%20northeast%20coast&f=false

Modern Chinese Warfare, 1795-1989 - Bruce A. Elleman - Google Books

According to ViXuyen, these historians with PHD and who taught as Professors at Western universities are all liars.

New book explores history of the Vietnamese | Cornell Chronicle

Keith Weller Taylor - Department of Asian Studies

John King Fairbank | Fairbank Center

Denis Crispin Twitchett (British historian) -- Encyclopedia Britannica

U.S. Naval War College |
Bruce A. Elleman

Dr Tana Li - Researchers - ANU


----------



## ViXuyen

Grand Historian said:


> A Third party can shed new light on historical events.
> 
> 
> Taylor has a PHD and BA in History something which you lack.
> 
> What outrageous claims,Nationalistic Vietnamese can't accept that the Sincized Kinh welcomed the Ming while the unruly Trai didn't.
> 
> You claim Ming Shi said this Ming shi said that then quote the Hanzi if you can read it.
> 
> All this is coming from someone who thinks Dong Song civilized the Chinese,when in fact Vietnamese were the ones to copy surnames,script,language,architecture,customs,government etc.
> 
> Calling other people chinaman,idiot,stupid,confushit, while I never called Vietanmese member Vietcong,Monkey etc only trolls.


Failed logic. Taylor has a PHD does not mean he is not susceptible to lying. I already busted him for making too many facts already. Are you his accomplice?



Wholegrain said:


> LOL, ViXuyen is claiming that both Western historians and the French in 1884 were liars, since they said China did it and that French were defeated at Bang Bo (Zhennan Pass).
> 
> The Cambridge History of China - Google Books
> 
> Throne and Mandarins: China's Search for a Policy During the Sino-French ... - Lloyd E. Eastman - Google Books
> 
> http://books.google.com/books?id=j1aGAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA87&dq=the June 1884 Baclé incident is perhaps the most well known of the Chinese military victories&hl=en&sa=X&ei=paldU__fOcbjsATvxIG4Cw&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=the June 1884 Baclé incident is perhaps the most well known of the Chinese military victories&f=false
> 
> http://books.google.com/books?id=j1aGAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA88&dq=Spurred on by their defeat at Baclé, the French decided to blockade the Chinese island of Taiwan (Formosa). Beginning on 5 August 1884, Admiral Lespes bombarded Taiwan's forts at Jilong (Keelung) Harbor on the northeast coast&hl=en&sa=X&ei=16hdU-feAdfNsQTmxIH4DA&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Spurred on by their defeat at Baclé, the French decided to blockade the Chinese island of Taiwan (Formosa). Beginning on 5 August 1884, Admiral Lespes bombarded Taiwan's forts at Jilong (Keelung) Harbor on the northeast coast&f=false
> 
> Modern Chinese Warfare, 1795-1989 - Bruce A. Elleman - Google Books
> 
> According to ViXuyen, these historians with PHD and who taught as Professors at Western universities are all liars.
> 
> New book explores history of the Vietnamese | Cornell Chronicle
> 
> Keith Weller Taylor - Department of Asian Studies
> 
> John King Fairbank | Fairbank Center
> 
> Denis Crispin Twitchett (British historian) -- Encyclopedia Britannica
> 
> U.S. Naval War College |
> Bruce A. Elleman
> 
> Dr Tana Li - Researchers - ANU


 Tani Li,,, Keith Taylor both are joe blow historians and I already busted their lying. The Ming had to reinforce 100k from Guangxi, 50k from Yunnan in addition to the 100k already in Vietnam at that time and they still lost badly. Eventually, 100k had to surrender. It was total defeat and humiliation by the Ming in Vietnam; deal with it, my friend.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## bolo

ViXuyen said:


> I only see u guys bitch about how strong your navy is but up till this point, you still have not had the balls to attack us, not even back in 2000's when we were so WEAK.


If someone is hung like a horse, does he have to be in ****?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Wholegrain

ViXuyen said:


> Failed logic. Taylor has a PHD does not mean he is not susceptible to lying. I already busted him for making too many facts already. Are you his accomplice?
> 
> 
> Tani Li,,, Keith Taylor both are joe blow historians and I already busted their lying. The Ming had to reinforce 100k from Guangxi, 50k from Yunnan in addition to the 100k already in Vietnam at that time and they still lost badly. Eventually, 100k had to surrender. It was total defeat and humiliation by the Ming in Vietnam; deal with it, my friend.



Another western Professor who says Le Loi and most of his men were Muong, and also says most Vietnamese were loyal to the Ming. ViXuyen thinks she is smarter than all these historians with Phds who are Professors at Universities.

Strange Parallels: Southeast Asia in Global Context, C. 800 - 1830 - Victor B. Lieberman - Google Books



> On the other hand, there is little evidence that Le Loi's movement ever championed specific cultural attributes. *Le Loi himself, one of the toweringheroes of Vietnamese history, was in origin almost certainly not Vietnamese, but Muong*............. Le Loi's decisive push against the Ming in 1424 relied on people from the Ca River basin, *the bulk of whom were probably Muong by current usage*.103 ..............*Conversely, insofar as they remained loyal to the Ming to the bitter end in 1427, many, perhaps most of Vietnamese-speakers who could understand Nguyen Trai refused to endorse his vision. While these Dong Kinh literati have left no apologia, we may assume that personal advantage and humane sensibility alike continued to demand their allegiance to the Ming court, epicenter of civilization. *



https://www.lsa.umich.edu/history/people/ci.liebermanvictorb_ci.detail

The reason Le Loi needed Nguyen Trai, who was Kinh, was because Le Loi and his Muong and other followers needed someone who could write pro-Confucian propaganda to Kinh people and get them to stop supporting the Ming.

A History of the Vietnamese - K. W. Taylor - Google Books


----------



## sincity

Historical fact won't redrawn the current map of Viet Nam or China, what the point to discuss history between Viet Nam or China. Wasting time to drag me into this kind of discussion.


----------



## ViXuyen

Wholegrain said:


> Another western Professor who says Le Loi and most of his men were Muong, and also says most Vietnamese were loyal to the Ming. ViXuyen thinks she is smarter than all these historians with Phds who are Professors at Universities.
> 
> Strange Parallels: Southeast Asia in Global Context, C. 800 - 1830 - Victor B. Lieberman - Google Books
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.lsa.umich.edu/history/people/ci.liebermanvictorb_ci.detail


Are you trying to defend your books, eh? Taylor....

I don't care what these historians claim. Primary Viet sources never mention Le Loi was a Muong or not; let alone there were Vietnamese who supported the Ming. Where in Dai Viet Su Ky Toan Thu that mention otherwise? Obviously, these historians were quoting 100% from Chinese sources or they're making up lies thinking that no one can catch them. A total of 250k Ming troops were crushed in Vietnam; a total military disaster that no matter whatever you do to twist it; it was enshined in Mingshi.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Wholegrain

ViXuyen said:


> Are you trying to defend your books, eh? Taylor....
> 
> I don't care what these historians claim. Primary Viet sources never mention Le Loi was a Muong or not; let alone there were Vietnamese who supported the Ming. Where in Dai Viet Su Ky Toan Thu that mention otherwise? Obviously, these historians were quoting 100% from Chinese sources or they're making up lies thinking that no one can catch them. A total of 250k Ming troops were crushed in Vietnam; a total military disaster that no matter whatever you do to twist it; it was enshined in Mingshi.



Dai Viet Su Ky Toan Thu was propaganda written by Le Dynasty commissioned Confucian historian Ngo Si Lien. The Le dynasty wanted to create a seperate history for the Kinh people as a distinct ethnic group, so they hired Ngo Si Lien to manufacture history like the Hung Kings, stretching Vietnmese civilization back 4,000 years and claiming that Vietnamese are descended from Emperor Shennong to make Vietnamese seem older than China.

A History of the Vietnamese - K. W. Taylor - Google Books

Blood and Soil: A World History of Genocide and Extermination from Sparta to ... - Ben Kiernan - Google Books


----------



## Nike

Wholegrain said:


> Dai Viet Su Ky Toan Thu was propaganda written by Le Dynasty commissioned Confucian historian Ngo Si Lien. The Le dynasty wanted to create a seperate history for the Kinh people as a distinct ethnic group, so they hired Ngo Si Lien to manufacture history like the Hung Kings, stretching Vietnmese civilization back 4,000 years and claiming that Vietnamese are descended from Emperor Shennong to make Vietnamese seem older than China.
> 
> A History of the Vietnamese - K. W. Taylor - Google Books
> 
> Blood and Soil: A World History of Genocide and Extermination from Sparta to ... - Ben Kiernan - Google Books



Your ava is creepy it kinda give me some bumps


----------



## ViXuyen

Wholegrain said:


> Dai Viet Su Ky Toan Thu was propaganda written by Le Dynasty commissioned Confucian historian Ngo Si Lien. The Le dynasty wanted to create a seperate history for the Kinh people as a distinct ethnic group, so they hired Ngo Si Lien to manufacture history like the Hung Kings, stretching Vietnmese civilization back 4,000 years and claiming that Vietnamese are descended from Emperor Shennong to make Vietnamese seem older than China.
> 
> A History of the Vietnamese - K. W. Taylor - Google Books
> 
> Blood and Soil: A World History of Genocide and Extermination from Sparta to ... - Ben Kiernan - Google Books


 Yeah, one of the most respectable contemporary Viet sources is considered as "propaganda". Sure, buddy. We believe in our history written by our contemporary figures than some joe blow historians who make up historical "facts about us

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

Do more，talk less。

China has turned Chiguajiao （Johnson South reef）、Huayangjiao（Cuarteron Reef）and Dongmenjiao（Hughes Reef）into giant construction sites。

Chiguajiao in early April 2014






The satellite image shows a 300m X 400m white patch for the newly reclaimed land。In a couple of years Chiguajiao will be renamed Chiguadao（Chigua Island）with the size of Zhongyedao（Thitu Island）

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ViXuyen

We don't talk about it, just do.

Construction of a port on Sinh Ton island (Sin Cowe island)

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cirr

China has adopted a strategy of attrition。

It will make operations in the SCS so expensive for Vietnam and the Philippines that continuing so will exact a heavy toll on their economy。

Let's play the game for the next 100 years。

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

New “toy“ launched on 27.04.2014:






to keep a close watch on the thieves and rascals in the SCS。


----------



## Grand Historian

ViXuyen said:


> Yeah, one of the most respectable contemporary Viet sources is considered as "propaganda". Sure, buddy. We believe in our history written by our contemporary figures than some joe blow historians who make up historical "facts about us


Ngo Si Lien quoted from a book of fairy tales,yet Ling Nam chich quai quotes from nothing showing that part of the Dai Viet su ky toan thu is full of fabrications.

Yes it is propaganda,Dai Viet sought to project a history rivaling China and in the process they made up the myth of the Hung Kings and Van Lang which survive to this day.


----------



## Beast

Mr Second Back said:


> You are no need to make yourself comfortable here. Just check the every news about SCS in the local Chinese website. What China government's attitude on this area has been insulted and laughed by nearly every Chinese people. Everyday show how strong the economy is, how fine the weapon are. So what? Dare China do what Russia dare to do? So what? Now the poor Vietnam has occupied most of islands, dare you take them back? Philippines, whatever you guys call them bitch or poor country, or monkey country, JUST use an old tiny ship, Philippines can stay there and have lived there more than 10 years! So tell me the meaning of the nice weapon and strong economy? If every Island belongs to China, why not take them back like what UK did in Folkland?, like Russia did in Georgia and Crimea? Affraid of USA's punishment? Russia did! So what?



Are you trying to instigate violence and war? Precisely, China not firing the first shot shows, China is a peaceful country as for your twisted theory you seems like.mocking USA. USN equipped with 11 CVN darr not even moved against russian navy with no carrier at the movement in Ukarine. So by your theory. USN shall close down?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ViXuyen

Work in progress at Da Tay island (West Reef)

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

cirr said:


> Do more，talk less。
> 
> China has turned Chiguajiao （Johnson South reef）、Huayangjiao（Cuarteron Reef）and Dongmenjiao（Hughes Reef）into giant construction sites。
> 
> Chiguajiao in early April 2014
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The satellite image shows a 300m X 400m white patch for the newly reclaimed land。In a couple of years Chiguajiao will be renamed Chiguadao（Chigua Island）with the size of Zhongyedao（Thitu Island）


16 new guided missiles warships for Vietnam navy: 10 Molnija corvettes and 6 Gepard frigates 

Warum Vietnam mehr russische Waffen braucht - Nachrichten - Gesellschaft - Stimme Russlands


----------



## Viet

Grand Historian said:


> Ngo Si Lien quoted from a book of fairy tales,yet Ling Nam chich quai quotes from nothing showing that part of the *Dai Viet su ky toan thu *is full of fabrications.
> 
> Yes it is propaganda,Dai Viet sought to project a history rivaling China and in the process they made up the myth of the Hung Kings and Van Lang which survive to this day.


just curious: have you read "Dai Viet su ky toan thu"?


----------



## rott

Viet said:


> 16 new guided missiles warships for Vietnam navy: 10 Molnija corvettes and 6 Gepard frigates
> 
> Warum Vietnam mehr russische Waffen braucht - Nachrichten - Gesellschaft - Stimme Russlands


And guess what? Somebody didn't have the money for Asian Games.


----------



## Grand Historian

Viet said:


> just curious: have you read "Dai Viet su ky toan thu"?


Yes,but not all of it.


----------



## xunzi

EastSea said:


> we don't care what idiot do.


I'm scare of talking to a Vietnamese now because of this heavy mental delusional thought. LOL


----------



## cirr

ViXuyen said:


> We don't talk about it, just do.
> 
> Construction of a port on Sinh Ton island (Sin Cowe island)



What？

A cat and a Hyundai truck？

Come on，you need more serious stuffs for the work at hand。

China deployed，among others，the following at Chiguajiao











Three heavy engineering vessels worked at the site






with another one en route：






All in Feb 2014



rott said:


> And guess what? Somebody didn't have the money for Asian Games.



Right。And we will make sure that Vietnam bleeds for the illegal keepings of those reefs。


----------



## Zero_wing

Ha other ship to slip thanks for the intel moron


----------



## EastSea

xunzi said:


> I'm scare of talking to a Vietnamese now because of this heavy mental delusional thought. LOL



then don't troll here like mental ill, arrogant but idiot. LOL.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ViXuyen

Truong Sa Lon









Song Tu Tay (southwest cay)

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cirr

New “toy” 3500-tonne CCG 1306 readying itself for launch at HPS：

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

CCG 1306 launched 30.04.2014.

More in the pipeline。

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zero_wing

Well getting ships too and so as everyone else you people piss off


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

Wholegrain said:


> These are minority Tay and Nung women, not ethnic Vietnamese Kinh women, because the Kinh women got killed or captured.
> 
> I posted the cemetery for Kinh women militia who died in the 1979 war on this thread. The places of birth on the gravestones indicate they are Kinh. See here.
> 
> South China Sea News & Discussions | Page 262
> 
> What happened was the real Viet Kinh female militia got killed, so Vietnamese propaganda photographers had to get some random Tay or Nung women for propaganda pictures.
> 
> All the photos of Vietnamese women militia captured by China also show Kinh women, there are zero minority women to be found.



Firstly, Tay, Nung or Kinh ... all are Vietnamese.
Tay, Nung ... are the ethnic minorities of Vietnam, they live near the border so they jointed the Vietnam local militia who defeated PLA invasion.

Secondly, you did not look at the 3rd photo. Kinh ethnic Vietnamese girls militia (who stand holding guns) captured PLA troops (who bowed sitting).


----------



## Mr Second Back

sincity said:


> You want China to start a war over those dispute territory, China just buy their time and will calculate their strategy over fighting a war in South China Sea, China build up their military capacity not to fight against Phillippine or VietNam but to have the naval power to confront US navy in Pacific. China don't need much of naval power to fight against both VietNam and Phillippine in a naval war. China rather not to fight a naval war over the South China Sea but wait till China military modernization achieve their objective of effectively closing the gap between their navy and the US navy in the future. When China can field 3 aircraft carrier battle group in South China and the backdrop of their airforce from mainland China that a potent military force for the US navy to confront in South China. All China need to dissuade US navy from intervention in South China sea conflict that will ensure China will achieve their objective with their military build up.


You will never understand what I mean. Why USA is still building aircraft carrier now even having had 10 more? To declare war with others? Nope.


----------



## Mr Second Back

Beast said:


> Are you trying to instigate violence and war? Precisely, China not firing the first shot shows, China is a peaceful country as for your twisted theory you seems like.mocking USA. USN equipped with 11 CVN darr not even moved against russian navy with no carrier at the movement in Ukarine. So by your theory. USN shall close down?


You guys are too stupid to understand my theroy, instigate violence and war? A strong will of China will stop the willing of war from others. A peaceful country is under the fundation of real power, hatever in the term of phycical or mental. Campared with SCE, is Ukarine the key intrest of USA? Dont give me a stupid respond again.


----------



## cnleio

China r building CiGua Reef (Johnson Reef) in the NanSha (Spratly Islands), Vietnam just watch. Chinese plan to build a runway at Johnson Reef.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

China ocoupied Gac Ma of Vietnam 1988. This is illegal construction works of idiot chinese aggressors


----------



## ViXuyen

Meanwhile, Vietnam is doing our construction work at West reef

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ViXuyen

cnleio said:


> China r building CiGua Reef (Johnson Reef) in the NanSha (Spratly Islands), Vietnam just watch. Chinese plan to build a runway at Johnson Reef.


This is the Gac Ma reef that China invaded and killed 64 of our unarmed troops on an unarmed transport boat in 1988. Since u guys occupy no island (just submerge reef); it is more pressure on you guys to build an actual island on a submerge reef than us.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ViXuyen

More pics of construction at West Reef (Point A)











West reef (Point B). In the background is construction work at West reef Point A and our fishing boats

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Soryu

cnleio said:


> China r building CiGua Reef (Johnson Reef) in the NanSha (Spratly Islands), Vietnam just watch. Chinese plan to build a runway at Johnson Reef.


You make me laugh so much, cnleio.
Pictures was take by Vietnamese Journalist, you just copy ...  ( sorry, but look like your government tell nothing but sh*t to you)

You Chinese do your work, we do ours ..

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cnleio

Soryu said:


> You make me laugh so much, cnleio.
> Pictures was take by Vietnamese Journalist, you just copy ...  ( sorry, but look like your government tell nothing but sh*t to you)
> 
> You Chinese do your work, we do ours ..



There is a aircraft runway, future can do much more.  China does not build a reef, we r building a big-sized military base(island) at the center of SCS.

Johnson South Reef

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Soryu

Yes, you have money to do that.
We will deal with it by our way.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

2 Su30mk2v patrol Truong Sa (Spratly Islands)

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ViXuyen

Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> 2 Su30mk2v patrol Truong Sa (Spratly Islands)


We can turn this island into an unsinkable "aircraft carrier" in the middle of the SCS if we really want to. In fact, we have many islands in the SCS that we can turn into aircraft carriers not just this island.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

cnleio said:


> There is a aircraft runway, future can do much more.  China does not build a reef, we r building a big-sized military base(island) at the center of SCS.
> 
> Johnson South Reef


If PRC government dare to made effort like Chinese netizen dreaming about super big military base in center of SCS to cover all around with airforce, so it'll become good target for VPN's missiles and airforce.

But still now, The construction site is just about: length 500m and wide 200m 



ViXuyen said:


> We can turn this island into an unsinkable "aircraft carrier" in the middle of the SCS if we really want to. In fact, we have many islands in the SCS that we can turn into aircraft carriers not just this island.


No need to do that. Spratly Islands are still in our airforce cover range.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Black Eagle 90

Soryu said:


> You make me laugh so much, cnleio.
> Pictures was take by Vietnamese Journalist, you just copy ...  ( sorry, but look like your government tell nothing but sh*t to you)
> 
> You Chinese do your work, we do ours ..



PN should also be looking in to building such small Check post in the middle of Arabian Sea all over the covered area and offer similar to Oman & Yemen to be build which will only be operated by PN and Coast Guards.


----------



## ViXuyen

Cultural center on dao Nam Yet (Namyit island)

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## applesauce

Soryu said:


> If PRC government dare to made effort like Chinese netizen dreaming about super big military base in center of SCS to cover all around with airforce, so it'll become good target for VPN's missiles and airforce.



none of your land based missiles have the range

which leaves only the 24 or so su-30mk/m2v (with 12 more on order) which is hardly invincible, especially considering that the base, if real, won't be undefended.

on topic: i wonder what exactly they are building, i doubt itll be a full fledged base, maybe a post and refuel point with extended runway which would not be fully utilized in peace time

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NiceGuy

applesauce said:


> none of your land based missiles have the range
> 
> which leaves only the 24 or so su-30mk/m2v (with 12 more on order) which is hardly invincible, especially considering that the base, if real, won't be undefended.
> 
> on topic: i wonder what exactly they are building, i doubt itll be a full fledged base, maybe a post and refuel point with extended runway which would not be fully utilized in peace time


Scud missile with the range of 550-700km is enough to reach to all of ur base in SCS(east sea). Shaddock missile ,range 550km can be used to attack ur base too.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ViXuyen

Sinh Ton island and on going construction

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Soryu

PRC's new provoke:

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## EastSea

cowardice Chinese is fear to facing with Japanese, just threat small neighbors.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cirr

Tuoitrenews 

Updated : 05/05/2014 10:21 GMT + 7





The HD 981 drilling rig of the China National Offshore Oil Corporation (CNOOC) is seen in this file photo.
File photo

*The Vietnamese Ministry of Foreign Affairs has issued a statement objecting to China’s illegal operation of a drilling rig in Vietnam’s waters in the East Sea, and the Vietnam Oil and Gas Group (PetroVietnam) has demanded that the China National Offshore Oil Corporation (CNOOC) move the rig out of the Southeast Asian country’s exclusive economic zone and continental shelf.*

On May 3, the Chinese Maritime Safety Administration released a maritime warning on its website, saying that China’s drilling rig HD 981 began operating in a location of 15°29’58’’ North latitude and 111°12’06’’ East longitude in the East Sea on May 2 and will continue to operate until August 15, said Vietnamese Ministry of Foreign Affairs spokesperson Le Hai Binh.

In the warning, the Chinese Maritime Safety Administration also bans all vessels from entering the area where the rig is operating within a radius of one nautical mile. 

The announced location of the drilling rig is totally within the exclusive economic zone and continental shelf of Vietnam, about 119 nautical miles (221 km) from Ly Son Island off the central Vietnamese province of Quang Ngai and 18 nautical miles south of Tri Ton Island of Vietnam’s Hoang Sa (Paracel) archipelago, the spokesman said.

“Vietnam has full historical evidence and legal grounds to prove its sovereignty over Hoang Sa and Truong Sa archipelagos as well as sovereign rights and jurisdiction over its exclusive economic zone and continental shelf in accordance with the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea,” Binh said.

The diplomat stressed that “any activities conducted by foreign countries in Vietnam’s waters without Vietnam’s permission is illegal and void. Vietnam resolutely opposes such activities.”

*Request for removal of rig*

PetroVietnam, the national oil group, has also released a statement saying that on May 2, CNOOC put the drilling rig HD 981 into operation about 120 nautical miles from Vietnam’s coast and within the country’s exclusive economic zone and continental shelf.

The fact that CNOOC operates the rig in this location has violated Vietnam’s sovereign and jurisdictional rights according to the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea, PetroVietnam said.

On May 4, PetroVietnam sent a letter to the president and general director of CNOOC that strongly opposed the violation and demanded that CNOOC stop the operation of the drilling rig and move the platform out of Vietnam’s waters.

The above action by CNOOC goes against the cooperative spirit between the national oil and gas groups of both countries, the practice of international oil and gas activities, and the friendly and cooperative principles between Vietnam and China, PetroVietnam said in the letter. 

PetroVietnam requests that CNOOC not repeat similar actions in the future.

In talking with_ Tuoi Tre_ newspaper on May 4 about the illegal operation of the CNOOC drilling rig, Dang Cong Ngu, chairman of Hoang Sa District, central Da Nang City, said, “This is a perverse and illegal action, as the location of the CNOOC drilling rig is within the exclusive economic zone and continental shelf of Vietnam. As the chairman of Hoang Sa District, I strongly oppose this action.”

Vietnam protests China’s illegal operation of drilling rig in Vietnamese waters

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## ViXuyen

Nothing news, 20 years ago you guys were much bolder than this; placing your rig just 70 km from our shore, this time it's 221 km

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

I hear that our Vietnamese friends love green turnips。

True or false？

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## bolo

@Beidou2020 , we like hearing news like these where the media is negative against China. Means we are doing the right thing.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Beidou2020

Viet Nam has no EEZ. That's our sea, our resources and we are exploring our resources in our sea.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## sincity

Drop a nuke in SCS, you don't need to demand China to pull off the oil rig.


----------



## cnleio

Do it for OIL !


----------



## Viet

cirr said:


> I hear that our Vietnamese friends love green turnips。
> 
> True or false？


do you like this one?























ViXuyen said:


> Nothing news, 20 years ago you guys were much bolder than this; placing your rig just 70 km from our shore, this time it's 221 km


221km from the Ly Son island, means appr. 250km from the shore.



Beidou2020 said:


> Viet Nam has no EEZ. That's our sea, our resources and we are exploring our resources in our sea.


don´t talk bullshit...stay at your middle land.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

beautiful Ly Son island. tourists are welcome, but not pirates

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## xunzi

Typical Vietnamese dirty media tactic. Paracel archipelegao is fully and completely under our current administration. They are basically complaining that the drilling area is 119 nautical miles away from Ly Son Island (administer by Vietnam) and that we cannot drill in our 18 nautical miles off Triton Island (which we administer). What a joke! LOL

You want to stop us from drilling? Perhaps grow some ball and take Paracel away from us.

This is what happen when small states are cleverly using dirty tactic to badmouth us because we are big and perceive as bully. Because we are big, we are not allow to make a claim and drill within our administration territorial EEZ right within Paracel. To get an idea of how outrageous this is. Imagine Columbia/Venezuela telling the US to stop drilling near US's offshore territory, Virgin Island.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ViXuyen

xunzi said:


> Typical Vietnamese dirty media tactic. Paracel archipelegao is fully and completely under our current administration. They are basically complaining that the drilling area is 119 nautical miles away from Ly Son Island (administer by Vietnam) and that we cannot drill in our 18 nautical miles off Triton Island (which we administer). What a joke! LOL
> 
> You want to stop us from drilling? Perhaps grow some ball and take Paracel away from us.
> 
> This is what happen when small states are cleverly using dirty tactic to badmouth us because we are big and perceive as bully. Because we are big, we are not allow to make a claim and drill within our administration territorial EEZ right within Paracel. To get an idea of how outrageous this is. Imagine Columbia/Venezuela telling the US to stop drilling near US's offshore territory, Virgin Island.


I bet u that this oil rig will be removed soon. 

Vietnam's soverignty over the Paracel is indisputeable. You robbed the island from us at gunpoint during our civil war. I've said this before, if we can get back our country after under your rule for more than 1000 years, we'll wait for the right time when you're weak to get this island back.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## xunzi

ViXuyen said:


> I bet u that this oil rig will be removed soon.
> 
> Vietnam's soverignty over the Paracel is indisputeable. You robbed the island from us at gunpoint during our civil war. I've said this before, if we can get back our country after under your rule for more than 1000 years, we'll wait for the right time when you're weak to get this island back.


You are more than welcome to get it remove.

I got 3 words for you, "come get it". We are waiting. But I will tell you this, in the next 10-20 years your army will not be fighting our manned aircraft because you are not worthy of it; but instead you will fight against our drones.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ViXuyen

xunzi said:


> You are more than welcome to get it remove.
> 
> I got 3 words for you, "come get it". We are waiting. But I will tell you this, in the next 10-20 years your army will not be fighting our manned aircraft because you are not worthy of it; but instead you will fight against our drones.


 20 years ago when you drilled 70 km away from our shore and we could remove you at the time when we were so much WEAKER now, you want to bet that we can't remove this rig now?

In 10 more years, you'll regret why you do not attack us in the mid 2000's or even NOW.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

that is the position of the rig (red cirle)










xunzi said:


> Typical Vietnamese dirty media tactic. *Paracel *archipelegao is fully and completely under our current administration. They are basically complaining that the drilling area is 119 nautical miles away from Ly Son Island (administer by Vietnam) and that we cannot drill in our 18 nautical miles off Triton Island (which we administer). What a joke! LOL
> 
> You want to stop us from drilling? Perhaps grow some ball and take Paracel away from us.
> 
> This is what happen when small states are cleverly using dirty tactic to badmouth us because we are big and perceive as bully. Because we are big, we are not allow to make a claim and drill within our administration territorial EEZ right within Paracel. To get an idea of how outrageous this is. Imagine Columbia/Venezuela telling the US to stop drilling near US's offshore territory, Virgin Island.


can you tell me how far is the distance from the closest Paracel island to the rig?


----------



## ViXuyen




----------



## BoQ77

tell me whether the rig in the location or was put away ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## xunzi

ViXuyen said:


> 20 years ago when you drilled 70 km away from our shore and we could remove you at the time when we were so much WEAKER now, you want to bet that we can't remove this rig now?
> 
> In 10 more years, you'll regret why you do not attack us in the mid 2000's or even NOW.


One thing I got to give to you is the big mouth. LOL You talk big for a small country. I can respect that. It's a shame you are our enemy, instead of friend. You know we can use a big mouth country in the upcoming decades because we got quite a bit of toys to share with.




Viet said:


> that is the position of the rig (red cirle)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> can you tell me how far is the distance from the closest Paracel island to the rig?


18 nautical miles from Triton. A little off the 12 miles that consider territorial water. But it is completely within our administer Paracel's EEZ. Paracel archipelago is entitle to an EEZ because the overall structure is large enough and can sustain life. If you bring this to international court, you ain't winning the common sense and logic ground because Paracel archipelago is completely under our control, bar none.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

xunzi said:


> 18 nautical miles from Triton. A little off the 12 miles that consider territorial water. But it is completely within our administer Paracel's EEZ. Paracel archipelago is entitle to an EEZ because the overall structure is large enough and can sustain life. If you bring this to international court, you ain't winning the common sense and logic ground because Paracel archipelago is completely under our control, bar none.


No country on earth recognises your occupation of the Paracels.

and as far as I know, 200nm EEZ does not apply to islands, only for mainland´s shore. Even, there are international rules when EEZ´s overlap. All of these facts you ignore.

You risk a confrontation with Vietnam in the SC Sea.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

Situation is described as “tense”.

Praying that Vietnam fires the first shot. 



Viet said:


> No country on earth recognises your occupation of the Paracels.
> 
> and as far as I know, 200nm EEZ does not apply to islands, only for mainland´s shore. Even, there are international rules when EEZ´s overlap. All of these facts you ignore.
> 
> You risk a confrontation with Vietnam in the SC Sea.



Don't worry。

China has plans to explore for oil and gas in blocks a lot closer to Vietnam but still within the 9-dotted line。

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## aliaselin

Viet said:


> No country on earth recognises your occupation of the Paracels.
> 
> and as far as I know, 200nm EEZ does not apply to islands, only for mainland´s shore. Even, there are international rules when EEZ´s overlap. All of these facts you ignore.
> 
> You risk a confrontation with Vietnam in the SC Sea.


So you means Japan does not have EEZ? Good idea


----------



## Soryu

I think we have the Thread name: 
*



South China Sea News & Discussions

Click to expand...

*

What's this thread for !? swanky and arrogant !?


----------



## cirr

Soryu said:


> I think we have the Thread name:
> 
> What's this thread for !? swanky and arrogant !?



All hell might break loose this time？

If not，this thread can always be merged with the other later。

Give it a few days and see what transpires。Ok？


----------



## itaskol

ViXuyen said:


> In 10 more years, you'll regret why you do not attack us in the mid 2000's or even NOW.


in 20 more years, vietnam will have nothing in SCS.
it is your destiny. you can fight against it.but in the end you will have nothing left.

better for vietnam is to make an offer to sell all their islands to china,make some money.
or you will lose it anyway.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## xunzi

Viet said:


> No country on earth recognises your occupation of the Paracels.
> 
> and as far as I know, 200nm EEZ does not apply to islands, only for mainland´s shore. Even, there are international rules when EEZ´s overlap. All of these facts you ignore.
> 
> You risk a confrontation with Vietnam in the SC Sea.


The point is not who recognize what. The point is we administer it and the rest of the world knows that, therefore we can do what we want.

Go learn about Island archipelago, my friend. You gonna need it if you want to debate that with me.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

itaskol said:


> in 20 more years, vietnam will have nothing in SCS.
> it is your destiny. you can fight against it.but in the end you will have nothing left.
> 
> better for vietnam is to make an offer to sell all their islands to china,make some money.
> or you will lose it anyway.


selling the islands? are you crazy?
what should we do with the money? buying real estates in Shanghai? LOL

start a war against Vietnam?

ha ha ha...our women military unit is good enough to spank the weaklings from the north country


----------



## EastSea

cirr said:


> I hear that our Vietnamese friends love green turnips。
> 
> True or false？



This fake toy. To be carefully, it will fall down on China soil.


----------



## cirr

itaskol said:


> in 20 more years, vietnam will have nothing in SCS.
> it is your destiny. you can fight against it.but in the end you will have nothing left.
> 
> better for vietnam is to make an offer to sell all their islands to china,make some money.
> or you will lose it anyway.



As a popular internet phrase goes：heaven is too far, China too close.？？？

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## EastSea

xunzi said:


> Typical Vietnamese dirty media tactic. Paracel archipelegao is fully and completely under our current administration. They are basically complaining that the drilling area is 119 nautical miles away from Ly Son Island (administer by Vietnam) and that we cannot drill in our 18 nautical miles off Triton Island (which we administer). What a joke! LOL
> 
> You want to stop us from drilling? Perhaps grow some ball and take Paracel away from us.
> 
> This is what happen when small states are cleverly using dirty tactic to badmouth us because we are big and perceive as bully. Because we are big, we are not allow to make a claim and drill within our administration territorial EEZ right within Paracel. To get an idea of how outrageous this is. Imagine Columbia/Venezuela telling the US to stop drilling near US's offshore territory, Virgin Island.



Liar, lying. Hoang Sa is our Islands, china is ocoupid with force. Its illegal action. Chinese go to hell, idiot aggressors.



cirr said:


> As a popular internet phrase goes：heaven is too far, China too close.？？？


and chinese is thief.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

aliaselin said:


> So you means Japan does not have EEZ? Good idea


I refer to small and tinny islands. the next typhoon will wash everything away anyway.


----------



## xunzi

EastSea said:


> Liar, lying. Hoang Sa is our Islands, china is ocoupid with force. Its illegal action. Chinese go to hell, idiot aggressors.


We only take back what belong to us. It is closer to Hainan than Vietnam. Not to mention, British can have Falkland thousand of miles away. Same with the US in Guam. All have one thing in common, big gun with big ball. You know in the real world, you want to control territory, you need big gun and big ball. No right. Nobody cares. We lose Diaoyu this way because we lack gun back then. It is unfortunate for you Vietnamese. Go play somewhere else. Go play with the Philippines or somewhere else that you have a chance.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## NiceGuy

xunzi said:


> Typical Vietnamese dirty media tactic. Paracel archipelegao is fully and completely under our current administration. They are basically complaining that the drilling area is 119 nautical miles away from Ly Son Island (administer by Vietnam) and that we cannot drill in our 18 nautical miles off Triton Island (which we administer). What a joke! LOL
> 
> You want to stop us from drilling? Perhaps grow some ball and take Paracel away from us.
> 
> This is what happen when small states are cleverly using dirty tactic to badmouth us because we are big and perceive as bully. Because we are big, we are not allow to make a claim and drill within our administration territorial EEZ right within Paracel. To get an idea of how outrageous this is. Imagine Columbia/Venezuela telling the US to stop drilling near US's offshore territory, Virgin Island.


Your big oil rig has planned to drill there since the first day we come here and discuss with u guys (abt 2 years ago),...... and its still just a plan until now 

Come one Chinese, pls show to the world that u have the ball to face with VNese alone without US-Japan's daddy protection like 1979


----------



## Viet

I think we need to increase defence spending a bit. Turning all islands into fortress, equipped with antiship and anti aircraft missiles. like this one here in the SC Sea.


----------



## EastSea

xunzi said:


> We only take back what belong to us. It is closer to Hainan than Vietnam. Not to mention, British can have Falkland thousand of miles away. Same with the US in Guam. All have one thing in common, big gun with big ball. You know in the real world, you want to control territory, you need big gun and big ball. No right. Nobody cares. We lose Diaoyu this way because we lack gun back then. It is unfortunate for you Vietnamese. Go play somewhere else. Go play with the Philippines or somewhere else that you have a chance.



You can not facing with Japanese and turned to bully Viets, dirty, idiot chinese.


----------



## xunzi

NiceGuy said:


> Your big oil rig has planned to drill there since the first day we come here and discuss with u guys (abt 2 years ago),...... and its still just a plan until now
> 
> Come one Chinese, pls show to the world that u have the ball to face with VNese alone without US-Japan's daddy protection like 1979


If there is one country we fear, it is Vietnam. You guys are some crazy maniac with no logic who willing to risk everything to harm us. This is like a rabid dog trying to bite you because the dog got whip by his superior. LOL I am very scare of talking to you Viet right now because no amount of logic and common sense make you Vietnamese become saint again. This is scary! LOL


----------



## Viet

xunzi said:


> We only take back what belong to us. It is closer to Hainan than Vietnam. Not to mention, British can have Falkland thousand of miles away. Same with the US in Guam. All have one thing in common, big gun with big ball. You know in the real world, you want to control territory, you need big gun and big ball. No right. Nobody cares. We lose Diaoyu this way because we lack gun back then. It is unfortunate for you Vietnamese. Go play somewhere else. Go play with the Philippines or somewhere else that you have a chance.


great idea. Vietnam should take Laos and Cambodia and of course Thailand and Burma.
we will ask the Philippines if they want to join the Vietnam friendship club, too. 

Don´t intervene.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

itaskol said:


> in 20 more years, vietnam will have nothing in SCS.
> it is your destiny. you can fight against it.but in the end you will have nothing left.
> 
> better for vietnam is to make an offer to sell all their islands to china,make some money.
> or you will lose it anyway.


Your slave's mind. We're not.


xunzi said:


> *We only take back what belong to us. It is closer to Hainan than Vietnam*. Not to mention, British can have Falkland thousand of miles away. Same with the US in Guam. All have one thing in common, big gun with big ball. You know in the real world, you want to control territory, you need big gun and big ball. No right. Nobody cares. We lose Diaoyu this way because we lack gun back then. It is unfortunate for you Vietnamese. Go play somewhere else. Go play with the Philippines or somewhere else that you have a chance.


It's not, like I know, Paracel is closer to Vietnam. But it's not matter with distance when we talk about sovereignty.
Game still on, life still go ... we'll wait.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NiceGuy

xunzi said:


> If there is one country we fear, it is Vietnam. You guys are some crazy maniac with no logic who willing to risk everything to harm us. This is like a rabid dog trying to bite you because the dog got whip by his superior. LOL I am very scare of talking to you Viet right now because no amount of logic and common sense make you Vietnamese become saint again. This is scary! LOL


Whatever, we dont give a damn care to ur big oil rig until u guys have the guts to place it there. 2 years has passed already, and we still dont see it inside our water 

Barking dog seldom bite

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## xunzi

EastSea said:


> You can not facing with Japanese and turned to bully Viets, dirty, idiot chinese.


We have offer you Vietnamese the opportunity for joint-exploration and development but you resist. Don't blame us. You Viet are dirty against smaller and weaker country like Philippines. The history of you grabbing Philippines control territory in Spratly is legendary. LOL Like I said, you need big gun and big ball.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

cirr said:


> As a popular internet phrase goes：heaven is too far, China too close.？？？


Russia is close to you, too.

a mutual defence treatry between Vietnam and Russia is a very realistic option.



xunzi said:


> We have offer you Vietnamese the opportunity for joint-exploration and development but you resist. Don't blame us. You Viet are dirty against smaller and weaker country like Philippines. The history of you grabbing Philippines control territory in Spratly is legendary. LOL Like I said, you need big gun and big ball.


don´t bullshit.

Vietnam agreed with you of joint-exploration and development in the Gulf of Tonkin. Negotiation is ongoing to expand into other sea areas. Now you sabotage the talk with such steps.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## xunzi

Soryu said:


> It's not, like I know, Paracel is closer to Vietnam. But it's not matter with distance when we talk about sovereignty.
> Game still on, life still go ... we'll wait.


At this point, we are very tired of getting into historical dispute over territory. The rule of the game will always remain the same. Who got bigger ball with bigger gun? You know the West didn't enjoy supremacy if they didn't have ball and big gun to impose their long distance offshore territories. Now let talk logic, shall we? We are a nuclear power state, 2nd in economy, 3rd in military, and have enormous potential. How do you plan to wrestle it away from us? If you don't do it today, you will not have the opportunity to do it in the future when we grow a lot stronger today. 2 carrier battlegroups are just a start in 2020s. By 2040s, we will triple that to 6 or even 10. This is not mentioning we will have drone to patrol the area 24 hours. Since Paracel is much closer to our NAVY headquarter in Hainan. We can easily retake it in case you try to invade and take it away from us. My friend, reality kicks in and it hurts. LOL



Viet said:


> Russia is close to you, too.
> 
> a mutual defence treatry between Vietnam and Russia is a very realistic option.
> 
> 
> don´t bullshit.
> 
> Vietnam agreed with you of joint-exploration and development in the Gulf of Tonkin. Negotiation is ongoing to expand into other sea areas. Now you sabotage the talk with such steps.


Sabotage, my ***. It was you Vietnamese who want to internationalizing the dispute and bring 3rd party to split the resources. We said no. We want bilateral negotiation but you insist on multilateral. Get this fact straight!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Krueger

*Can SBY end China’s dominance in the South China Sea?*
C.P.F. Luhulima

Jakarta | May 05 2014

*It will take a long time for ASEAN to deal with the South China Sea (SCS) problem.*

ASEAN was gently pressed to arrive at an arrangement to formulate and sign a Declaration on the Conduct of Parties (DOC) in the SCS, a politically dressed Code of Conduct that ASEAN did not seek.

A joint working group was set up to draft an action plan, specifying cooperation in the protection of the maritime environment, navigation and communication at sea, search and rescue and fighting transnational crime.

Initially, ASEAN contended it would continue negotiating the terms and conditions first before meeting China, but China insisted that parties in conflict in the SCS would have to solve their sovereignty and jurisdictional problems with China on a bilateral basis, not multilaterally, in the ASEAN 10 plus 1 format.

ASEAN rejected this and further negotiations were delayed.

The guidelines for the DOC were only agreed upon after ASEAN sacrificed its stance of consolidating itself before meeting the Chinese — disparaging ASEAN in its entirety.

All parties to the DOC would thus conduct their dialogue and consultation jointly, not in the ASEAN format of 10 + 1, but under a new format of 11.

Where is the ASEAN centrality we so proudly proclaimed to the world?

ASEAN violated its own concord on defending its centrality and role as a prime mover in its relations with all its dialogue partners. By giving in to China, ASEAN sacrificed its unanimity.

The most tragic event was the 45th ASEAN Ministerial Meeting in Phnom Penh in 2012.

The controversy involving the Philippines and Vietnam on the one hand, and Cambodia as the host, reflected parties that adhered to the respective principle of ASEAN centrality versus ASEAN plus China as an entity, a soccer team. This breakup among ASEAN members on the SCS cannot be justified.

Here again, China “dictated” how conflict in the SCS had to be dealt with, not jurisdictionally but politically.

*China even makes fun of ASEAN in the South China Sea disputes.*

Ever since the problem in the SCS first emerged, it could and would not determine the coordinates of the nine-dotted lines it claimed were its final territorial boundaries. It kept harping on about its historical rights.

ASEAN has drafted the ASEAN Proposed Elements of a Regional Code of Conduct in the South China Sea (COC), followed by Indonesia’s Zero Draft on the COC.

But China has discarded both, adhering to the DOC to manage conflicts in the SCS.

ASEAN must decide on leaving the soccer team format to manage the SCS disputes with China and regenerate the 10 + 1 format in its dealings on the sea in question.

*Here, Indonesia must take the lead. The request of ASEAN Secretary-General Le Luong Minh to President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono in late 2012 to assist in managing SCS tensions should be taken as a constructive gesture. 
*
The problem of the SCS can no longer be managed at the level of foreign ministers alone. The Phnom Penh debacle brought ASEAN to the brink of “balkanization”, the breakup of ASEAN for China’s sake.

The extraordinary endeavors of the foreign ministers of Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore, Brunei Darussalam, Thailand and Vietnam to mobilize ASEAN’s unity in Phnom Penh have grossly failed to bring Cambodia back into ASEAN’s political fold.

The restoration of ASEAN solidarity must be conducted at the ASEAN Summit level, in the format of summit diplomacy. Indonesia seems to be the only party able to take the initiative at the leaders’ summit.

Aside from being ASEAN’s de facto leader and “by far the largest economy and population in Southeast Asia — the only country that matters to China and the only influential voice that can redirect regional efforts to change things, (May Hong, The Jakarta Post), Indonesia should channel the trend in the management of the SCS in ASEAN’s favor.

*China is a threat, starting with its dominance in managing tensions through a DOC and completely discarding ASEAN’s efforts at formulating a code of conduct. 
*
It even makes fun of ASEAN in disputes in the South China Sea. If China succeeds in its effort and ASEAN succumbs, balkanization will set in with many consequences for Indonesia and the other ASEAN members.

*Who can guarantee that one day China will not claim the northern part of the Natuna sea as part of its territory as well? 
*
Yudhoyono, toward the end of his term, should help revitalize ASEAN’s unity on the SCS issue. Indonesia must reinvigorate an “integrated” Southeast Asia (as in the Soeharto years), in line with the current form of an ASEAN Political and Security Community — both Indonesian initiatives to integrate the region into an ASEAN Community.

*Indonesia must reembrace the Philippines and Vietnam in formulating ASEAN’s stance on China in the SCS, to rekindle the attitude of “ASEAN first” in internationalizing this problem.
*
In line with a new presidential decree on an official reference to China, Indonesia may have to change the term “Laut Cina Selatan” (South China Sea) to “Laut Tiongkok Selatan”, acknowledging the ocean as China’s sea.

Meanwhile the Philippines has started to coin the term “West Philippines Sea” and the Nguyen Thai Hoc Foundation in California is suggesting the term “Southeast Asia Sea”.

Why do we not initiate the term the “ASEAN Sea”, as raised by the political analyst Riefqi Muna, to project the ASEAN Political and Security Community in waters to the north, east and west of ASEAN?

The time has come to liberate ourselves of China’s dominance and revitalize ASEAN’s spirit in the managing of the South China Sea on its terms.

Indonesia’s initiative is crucial, as China recognizes Indonesia as ASEAN’s de facto leader.

It is time we acted more assertively in the SCS, to make it the ASEAN Sea.

_The writer is a researcher at the Centre for Political Studies at the Indonesian Institute of Sciences (LIPI) in Jakarta._

Can SBY end China’s dominance in the South China Sea? | The Jakarta Post


----------



## Soryu

xunzi said:


> At this point, we are very tired of getting into historical dispute over territory. The rule of the game will always remain the same. Who got bigger ball with bigger gun? You know the West didn't enjoy supremacy if they didn't have ball and big gun to impose their long distance offshore territories. Now let talk logic, shall we? We are a nuclear power state, 2nd in economy, 3rd in military, and have enormous potential. How do you plan to wrestle it away from us? If you don't do it today, you will not have the opportunity to do it in the future when we grow a lot stronger today. 2 carrier battlegroups are just a start in 2020s. By 2040s, we will triple that to 6 or even 10. This is not mentioning we will have drone to patrol the area 24 hours. Since Paracel is much closer to our NAVY headquarter in Hainan. We can easily retake it in case you try to invade and take it away from us. My friend, reality kicks in and it hurts. LOL
> 
> 
> Sabotage, my ***. It was you Vietnamese who want to internationalizing the dispute and bring 3rd party to split the resources. We said no. We want bilateral negotiation but you insist on multilateral. Get this fact straight!


Nobody know the future ... it maybe hurt for us or ... for you.


----------



## xunzi

Soryu said:


> Nobody know the future ... it maybe hurt for us or ... for you.


That is true. But even if you invade and retake Paracel from us. No guarantee we will not retake it again shortly after. Logic tell me, we can easily retake because our navy asset is in Hainan. It is home to this...







A lot of our submarines are located in Hainan. It is PLAN headquarter so we will respond quickly to any invasion on Paracel.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## xunzi

Do you want to hear our honest truth about the situation?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

xunzi said:


> Do you want to hear our honest truth about the situation?


go ahead sunzi ... just don't spoil pls !!!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## xunzi

BoQ77 said:


> go ahead sunzi ... just don't spoil pls !!!


Alright but don't get hurt if I tell the truth.

Look, ASEAN is naive, extremely naive. You think we do not know that within ASEAN, there is dispute among yourselves? Not too long ago, Vietnam and Philippines were fighting each over some rock, Malaysia and Indonesia, Malaysia and Singapore, Philippines and Malaysia. The point here is if you can't resolve your own dispute internally, how can you seriously expect us to believe in this united front? This is not mentioning that we outclass all ASEAN together in arm. Do you seriously going to bring this to the negotiate table without much leverage? Show us that you can resolve dispute first before you bring yourself to the table to talk with the big boy.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## nufix

SBY? that guy's office will stop running come July and he can not run for another candidacy, why bother asking whether he can deal with the SCS problem or not? The interesting question should be whether the next President will keep on continuing SBY's neutralist policy or choose sides.


----------



## Viet

xunzi said:


> Sabotage, my ***. It was you Vietnamese who want to internationalizing the dispute and bring 3rd party to split the resources. We said no. We want *bilateral negotiation *but you insist on multilateral. Get this fact straight!


you know we are the weaker party as Vietnam is smaller. that is not a fair game. we are not stupid. China is much bigger.
it is similar if we negotiate with Brunei *bilateral.*



xunzi said:


> That is true. But even if you invade and retake Paracel from us. No guarantee we will not retake it again shortly after. Logic tell me, we can easily retake because our navy asset is in Hainan. It is home to this...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A lot of our submarines are located in Hainan. It is PLAN headquarter so we will respond quickly to any invasion on Paracel.


nice map. Uncle Sam will take it and configure the missiles accordingly.


----------



## Soryu

Well, so we must destroy it at first if we want to retake Paracel.

P/S: you're easier than others Ah-Q boys to talk, xunzi. It's good. 


xunzi said:


> That is true. But even if you invade and retake Paracel from us. No guarantee we will not retake it again shortly after. Logic tell me, we can easily retake because our navy asset is in Hainan. It is home to this...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A lot of our submarines are located in Hainan. It is PLAN headquarter so we will respond quickly to any invasion on Paracel.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

xunzi said:


> Alright but don't get hurt if I tell the truth.
> 
> Look, ASEAN is naive, extremely naive. You think we do not know that within ASEAN, there is dispute among yourselves? Not too long ago, Vietnam and Philippines were fighting each over some rock, Malaysia and Indonesia, Malaysia and Singapore, Philippines and Malaysia. The point here is if you can't resolve your own dispute internally, how can you seriously expect us to believe in this united front? This is not mentioning that we outclass all ASEAN together in arm. Do you seriously going to bring this to the negotiate table without much leverage? Show us that you can resolve dispute first before you bring yourself to the table to talk with the big boy.



Xunzi, in fact, Indonesia, Malaysia, Vietnam, Thailand ... settled the sea boundaries that is bi/trilateral joint


----------



## Beast

Viet said:


> you know we are the weaker party as Vietnam is smaller. that is not a fair game. we are not stupid. China is much bigger.
> it is similar if we negotiate with Brunei *bilateral.*
> 
> 
> nice map. Uncle Sam will take it and configure the missiles accordingly.



 why would US fight for a small.insignificant country like vietnam? Very sad vietnam is alone.


----------



## EastSea

xunzi said:


> Alright but don't get hurt if I tell the truth.



SCS is not china lake. its going on, China is trouble maker in region.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## +4vsgorillas-Apebane

nufix said:


> SBY? that guy's office will stop running come July and he can not run for another candidacy, why bother asking whether he can deal with the SCS problem or not? The interesting question should be whether the next President will keep on continuing SBY's neutralist policy or choose sides.



All he has to do is sing really well and ask the population to grant him another term. He did outsing Megawati.


----------



## EastSea

xunzi said:


> We have offer you Vietnamese the opportunity for joint-exploration and development but you resist. Don't blame us. You Viet are dirty against smaller and weaker country like Philippines. The history of you grabbing Philippines control territory in Spratly is legendary. LOL Like I said, you need big gun and big ball.



what is join exploration in our territory ? Its simplely china dont have right to do it. Don't try to cheat us.



Beast said:


> why would US fight for a small.insignificant country like vietnam? Very sad vietnam is alone.



If it should be, not for Vietnam, to destroy China with your hilarious dream to rule a region here and to the world.


----------



## sincity

Will VietNam completely transfer the right to claim of territory to the US adminster of those area? Viet Nam want to push China out must make a concession to the US and transfer the right with the SCS territory to the US, now let US fight against China over the SCS territory. Other than the US directly fighting China in a naval battle, VietNam don't stand a chance whatsoever.


----------



## EastSea

sincity said:


> Will VietNam completely transfer the right to claim of territory to the US adminster of those area? Viet Nam want to push China out must make a concession to the US and transfer the right with the SCS territory to the US, now let US fight against China over the SCS territory. Other than the US directly fighting China in a naval battle, VietNam don't stand a chance whatsoever.



nope.
Both Vietnam and China has right for the SCS under rules of internal law. When USA went home, China thought he can steal every thing here and now he do it.

USA will come back, every thing could happen here.


----------



## NiceGuy

* end China’s dominance in the South China Sea? But does China really dominate SCS(east sea) ??? Of course No. seem like all papers r trying to demonize China when infact VN control the largest part of SCS(east sea) *


----------



## sincity

EastSea said:


> nope.
> Both Vietnam and China has right for the SCS under rules of internal law. When USA went home, China thought he can steal every thing here and now he do it.
> 
> USA will come back, every thing could happen here.


 


US not risk US life to fight over territory for VietNam, without US naval fleet to fight China in SCS, VietNam won't stand a chance.


----------



## Viet

Beast said:


> why would US fight for a small.insignificant country like vietnam? Very sad vietnam is alone.


you troll.

small and insignificant?..but why you have tried endless to force Vietnam to return to the gloriuos China? 



xunzi said:


> At this point, we are very tired of getting into historical dispute over territory. The rule of the game will always remain the same. Who got bigger ball with bigger gun? You know the West didn't enjoy supremacy if they didn't have ball and big gun to impose their long distance offshore territories. Now let talk logic, shall we? We are a nuclear power state, 2nd in economy, 3rd in military, and have enormous potential. How do you plan to wrestle it away from us?
> 
> If you don't do it today, you will not have the opportunity to do it in the future when we grow a lot stronger today. 2 carrier battlegroups are just a start in 2020s. *By 2040s, we will triple that to 6 or even 10. *This is not mentioning we will have drone to patrol the area 24 hours. Since Paracel is much closer to our NAVY headquarter in Hainan. We can easily retake it in case you try to invade and take it away from us. My friend, reality kicks in and it hurts. LOL


max 10 carriers in 2040? 
you don´t need them all when at war with Vietnam. We are too close.

by the way, you should know the US deployed 22 aircraft carriers during the war with Vietnam. and they still lost


----------



## Nike

+4vsgorillas-Apebane said:


> All he has to do is sing really well and ask the population to grant him another term. He did outsing Megawati.



Only two terms, that has been written in our constitution


----------



## BoQ77

China action triggered the conflict.


----------



## maxpayne

1 guess only 1 AC is required with complete battle group.How much days Vietnam economy will survive in case of any conflict (naval blockade)?


----------



## NiceGuy

maxpayne said:


> 1 guess only 1 AC is required with complete battle group.How much days Vietnam economy will survive in case of any conflict (naval blockade)?


We still survive until now after the collapse of Soviet union until now despite all kind of wars and sanctions from US-China. None of them r powerful enough to slap a naval blockade to destroy VN now.


----------



## nufix

+4vsgorillas-Apebane said:


> All he has to do is sing really well and ask the population to grant him another term. He did outsing Megawati.



yea rite, except the people now don't support his party the way they supported his party when he overthrew Megawati.


----------



## maxpayne

Yep you maybe right bcz same happened and happening currently at Afghanistan but will it be good to stay under poverty and danger? I see many Afghan refugees living to standards which no1 in US or EU had seen or even imagined in their life. Yet they claim they had beaten two super powers. I believe winning does not means killing others, but to raise your education, health and life style. Take example of Japan, Korea etc. Japan lost to US but now one of the top economy!


----------



## Viet

sincity said:


> *Will VietNam completely transfer the right to claim of territory to the US adminster of those area? *Viet Nam want to push China out must make a concession to the US and transfer the right with the SCS territory to the US, now let US fight against China over the SCS territory. Other than the US directly fighting China in a naval battle, VietNam don't stand a chance whatsoever.


you are the joker!

NO, why should we transfer our territories to America? Will America give Vietnam the Haiwaii islands? you are welcome to do so.

we don´t have a chance against China?
our victories prove otherwise.

Even if we can´t kill the enemy, we will chop them a leg and an arm up.



maxpayne said:


> 1 guess only 1 AC is required with complete battle group.How much days *Vietnam economy* will survive in case of any conflict (naval blockade)?


with the resources of Laos and Cambodia, we would survive the conflict.


----------



## sincity

Viet said:


> you are the joker!
> 
> NO, why should we transfer our territories to America? Will America give Vietnam the Haiwaii islands? you are welcome to do so.
> 
> we don´t have a chance against China?
> our victories prove otherwise.
> 
> Even if we can´t kill the enemy, we will chop them a leg and an arm up.


 


This isn't a land warfare, naval battle require lot of battleship. VietNam don't have much modern battleship to fight China, Realistic no way in hell VietNam can fight a naval war against China alone.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

China would finish competitor one by one.


----------



## Beast

Viet said:


> we don´t have a chance against China?
> our victories prove otherwise.
> 
> Even if we can´t kill the enemy, we will chop them a leg and an arm up.
> 
> 
> with the resources of Laos and Cambodia, we would survive the conflict.



What victory? The last naval battle in 1988 Johnson skirmish end up a disaster for vietnam. 



sincity said:


> This isn't a land warfare, naval battle require lot of battleship. VietNam don't have much modern battleship to fight China, Realistic no way in hell VietNam can fight a naval war against China alone.


A very realistic analysis from an american friend.


----------



## NiceGuy

maxpayne said:


> Yep you maybe right bcz same happened and happening currently at Afghanistan but will it be good to stay under poverty and danger? I see many Afghan refugees living to standards which no1 in US or EU had seen or even imagined in their life. Yet they claim they had beaten two super powers. I believe winning does not means killing others, but to raise your education, health and life style. Take example of Japan, Korea etc. Japan lost to US but now one of the top economy!


Afghanistan has No strategic position and fertile land like VN. VNese still have enough food to eat. No VNese is frozen and starve to death in trash bin like many other countries in the world now .


----------



## Beast

China just need to park a frigate beside and do what things we want and there is nothing vietnamese can do about it. 

Just like how we construct our airfield in spratly island...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## yusheng

the platform is only 16 nautical miles away from our zhongjiandao.

China declared its baselines for its maritime territory on 15 May 1996. The baselines were for the Chinese mainland and also for the Paracel (Xisha) Islands.

Zhongjiandao (1) 15° 46.5' N 111° 12.6' E 
Zhongjiandao (2) 15° 46.4' N 111° 12.1' E 
Zhongjiandao (3) 15° 46.4' N 111° 11.8' E 
Zhongjiandao (4) 15° 46.5' N 111° 11.6' E 
Zhongjiandao (5) 15° 46.7' N 111° 11.4' E 
Zhongjiandao (6) 15° 46.9' N 111° 11.3' E 
Zhongjiandao (7) 15° 47.2' N 111° 11.4' E

The baselines for the mainland consist of a series of straight lines linking 49 basepoints situated on the outer edge along and outer islands off the coast of China. For the Paracel Islands, the baselines consist of a series of straight lines linking 28 basepoints located on the outer islands of the group.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NiceGuy

Beast said:


> China just need to park a frigate beside and do what things we want and there is nothing vietnamese can do about it.
> 
> Just like how we construct our airfield in spratly island...


And we had been waiting for ur frigate beside ur oil rig for 2 years already, still dont see China has the guts to do it

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## seven7seven

I'm afraid might will always make right. Too bad for Vietnam.

I'm sure if you go back through all of history, the reason why any person occupies a certain land is because his or her ancestors were the strongest and most capable to take that land and/or keep it. No point bitching about what's right because the strongest always takes what it wants. The US did it, and are still doing it, and China will start to do it more as they get stronger.

International condemnation of China won't matter a damn when China is almost everyone's most important trading partner and they are not going to back a relatively unimportant small nation, like Vietnam, at the risk of upsetting China. If Vietnam didn't put pride first, then they should have the smarts and foresight to get the best price and concessions for ceding contested territory to China. Maybe a share of profits in oil and gas exploration.

You cannot fight immutable facts. China is and always will be a big country and Vietnam small in comparison. That is just how things are.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Beast

NiceGuy said:


> And we had been waiting for ur frigate beside ur oil rig for 2 years already, still dont see China has the guts to do it



Really? Got guts tear down the airfield and sank the Mianyang frigate.  The frigate is waiting for you at there.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NiceGuy

Beast said:


> Really? Got guts tear down the airfield and sank the Mianyang frigate.  The frigate is waiting for you at there.


Ur Air force is totally useless. the last battle for ur pilot was in Korean war, some of ur air crafts were shot down before they could enter VN land in 1979 .

Ur air craft cant even fly properly. No one believe ur air force can make any damage to our force now . S-300 will sent all of ur pilots to Hell before they know what hit them

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Beast

NiceGuy said:


> Ur Air force is totally useless. the last battle for ur pilot was in Korean war, some of ur air crafts were shot down before they could enter VN land in 1979 .
> 
> Ur air craft cant even fly properly. No one believe ur air force can make any damage to our force now



 VPN which get thrashed by PLAN in 1988. So what shall we can VPN , garbage?


----------



## Rechoice

Beast said:


> VPN which get thrashed by PLAN in 1988. So what shall we can VPN , garbage?



open fire on logistic soldiers to rob our island, this action of sea pirates PLA.


----------



## NiceGuy

Beast said:


> VPN which get thrashed by PLAN in 1988. So what shall we can VPN , garbage?


Its just a cargo ship in 1988 . And bcz from 1978 to 1988, u got US-Japan daddy's protection, so thats didnt a fair war to VN.

Now Japan-US daddy dont like u no more, u r alone . thats why 2 years has passed already, u still can not place ur oil rig inside our water. All u can do now is just bow down and beg for Japan daddy's support again 

China welcomes Japanese people to improve bilateral ties

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

We protest, and we have proper reaction by our force.
If China could put their drilling rig there, we would kill ourselves


----------



## Beast

NiceGuy said:


> Its just a cargo ship in 1988 . And bcz from 1978 to 1988, u got US-Japan daddy's protection, so thats didnt a fair war to VN.
> 
> Now Japan-US daddy dont like u no more, u r alone . thats why 2 years has passed already, u still can not place ur oil rig inside our water. All u can do now is just bow down and beg for Japan daddy's support again
> 
> China welcomes Japanese people to improve bilateral ties



We already place rig inside your area and all you can is weep! 

We dont need Japan and US like you. China is big enough to be alone. By the way, its the japanese who first extend the warm hand. We Chinese are benevolent.

Japan delegation leaves for Beijing to mend ties with China - xinmsn News

Chinese will only teach a lesson for the arrogant. And regarding Vietnam, your Vietnam president and whole VCP are ready to cede all Chinese condition to mend ties. They are smart to give up whole spratly to win the support of China. China support is important for the survival of Vietnam. A series of China measure has caused economic hardship on vietnam. So bad that Vietnam suffer the humilitation cancellation of Asian game 2019 hosting. What they are reporting is just to pacify you nationalist ignorant. Under the table they are negotiating for ceding of all China condition in order to beg for China economic prowess assist to revive their country.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Nice_guy

Beast said:


> VPN which get thrashed by PLAN in 1988. So what shall we can VPN , garbage?


Of course, Chinese are always opportunists, he invaded Vietnamese (a former ally indeed) without any reason, without informing officially like USA and Russia. What a grown-up gentlemen! So far, we learnt that Chinese should not be trust forever. Therefore, upgrading our nation military strength will be a non-stop strategy to protect itself from very greedy Chinese.


----------



## NiceGuy

Beast said:


> We already place rig inside your area and all you can is weep!


Poor u, paranoid Chinese, can u show me that oil rig is drilling inside our water now ??


Beast said:


> We dont need Japan and US like you. China is big enough to be alone. By the way, its the japanese who first extend the warm hand. We Chinese are benevolent.
> 
> Japan delegation leaves for Beijing to mend ties with China - xinmsn News
> 
> Chinese will only teach a lesson for the arrogant. And regarding Vietnam, your Vietnam president and whole VCP are ready to cede all Chinese condition to mend ties. They are smart to give up whole spratly to win the support of China. China support is important for the survival of Vietnam. A series of China measure has caused economic hardship on vietnam. So bad that Vietnam suffer the humilitation cancellation of Asian game 2019 hosting. What they are reporting is just to pacify you nationalist ignorant. Under the table they are negotiating for ceding of all China condition in order to beg for China economic prowess assist to revive their country.


China is big enough to be alone ?? Dont try to lie to history. China came to Japan and begged for support in 1978, came to US and begged for protection in 1979. JP-US history recorded that 


> *Amid doubt that China would invade, Deng Xiaoping travelled to Washington to brief
> President Carter on China's attack plans. Carter approved the Chinese invasion,
> "protected" China from Soviet counterattack and pushed China for restraint.
> The "worst possible case" of a nuclear war between China
> and the Soviet Union *was averted.
> 9/11 intelligence; China invades Vietnam

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

Beast said:


> We already place rig inside your area and all you can is weep!
> .........
> . They are smart to give up whole spratly to win the support of China.



As I know, the authority ships of Vietnam is patrolling there, and there's no drilling rig been there ...
How China could ban Vietnam ships operate in Vietnam sea ...

Vietnam controlling the majority of reefs and islands in Spratlys Islands right now ...
Don't lie.

Need sharing of photos taken there by our people in this May 2014 ?

The 981 rig still outside of Vietnam EEZ ...


----------



## ViXuyen

xunzi said:


> One thing I got to give to you is the big mouth. LOL You talk big for a small country. I can respect that. It's a shame you are our enemy, instead of friend. You know we can use a big mouth country in the upcoming decades because we got quite a bit of toys to share with.


One thing that you forget is your country has the biggest mouth of all. Reality speaks otherwise; you lost every single military conflict in the 20th century LOL. It's kinda good for us that you beat the loudest war drum because any time we smash you like what we have doing since 938 A.D, we just up our status a bit.


----------



## Beast

NiceGuy said:


> Poor u, paranoid Chinese, can u show me that oil rig is drilling inside our water now ??
> 
> China is big enough to be alone ?? Dont try to lie to history. China came to Japan and begged for support in 1978, came to US and begged for protection in 1979. JP-US history recorded that



You want to bring up 30years ago thing to prove what? Does iphone exist in 1978? 
Please at least troll with standard.  Now is 2014. Ignorant fool.

2014, vietnam beg japan and US to help her.. But they are no idiot to help you unless you have $100billions to give them.  Vietnam cannot even afford to host a small small Asian game in 2019. What is there of Vietnam to offer?

Vietnam is alone. So sad


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

cirr said:


> Tuoitrenews
> 
> Updated : 05/05/2014 10:21 GMT + 7
> 
> *The Vietnamese Ministry of Foreign Affairs has issued a statement objecting to China’s illegal operation of a drilling rig in Vietnam’s waters in the East Sea, and the Vietnam Oil and Gas Group (PetroVietnam) has demanded that the China National Offshore Oil Corporation (CNOOC) move the rig out of the Southeast Asian country’s exclusive economic zone and continental shelf.*
> 
> On May 3, the Chinese Maritime Safety Administration released a maritime warning on its website, saying that China’s drilling rig HD 981 began operating in a location of 15°29’58’’ North latitude and 111°12’06’’ East longitude in the East Sea on May 2 and will continue to operate until August 15, said Vietnamese Ministry of Foreign Affairs spokesperson Le Hai Binh.
> 
> In the warning, the Chinese Maritime Safety Administration also bans all vessels from entering the area where the rig is operating within a radius of one nautical mile.
> 
> The announced location of the drilling rig is totally within the exclusive economic zone and continental shelf of Vietnam, about 119 nautical miles (221 km) from Ly Son Island off the central Vietnamese province of Quang Ngai and 18 nautical miles south of Tri Ton Island of Vietnam’s Hoang Sa (Paracel) archipelago, the spokesman said.
> 
> “Vietnam has full historical evidence and legal grounds to prove its sovereignty over Hoang Sa and Truong Sa archipelagos as well as sovereign rights and jurisdiction over its exclusive economic zone and continental shelf in accordance with the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea,” Binh said.
> 
> The diplomat stressed that “any activities conducted by foreign countries in Vietnam’s waters without Vietnam’s permission is illegal and void. Vietnam resolutely opposes such activities.”
> 
> *Request for removal of rig*
> 
> PetroVietnam, the national oil group, has also released a statement saying that on May 2, CNOOC put the drilling rig HD 981 into operation about 120 nautical miles from Vietnam’s coast and within the country’s exclusive economic zone and continental shelf.
> 
> The fact that CNOOC operates the rig in this location has violated Vietnam’s sovereign and jurisdictional rights according to the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea, PetroVietnam said.
> 
> On May 4, PetroVietnam sent a letter to the president and general director of CNOOC that strongly opposed the violation and demanded that CNOOC stop the operation of the drilling rig and move the platform out of Vietnam’s waters.
> 
> The above action by CNOOC goes against the cooperative spirit between the national oil and gas groups of both countries, the practice of international oil and gas activities, and the friendly and cooperative principles between Vietnam and China, PetroVietnam said in the letter.
> 
> PetroVietnam requests that CNOOC not repeat similar actions in the future.
> 
> In talking with_ Tuoi Tre_ newspaper on May 4 about the illegal operation of the CNOOC drilling rig, Dang Cong Ngu, chairman of Hoang Sa District, central Da Nang City, said, “This is a perverse and illegal action, as the location of the CNOOC drilling rig is within the exclusive economic zone and continental shelf of Vietnam. As the chairman of Hoang Sa District, I strongly oppose this action.”
> 
> Vietnam protests China’s illegal operation of drilling rig in Vietnamese waters




Vietnam goverment should work together with Philippines to take the greedy devil Chinese to international court. Don't make friend with the devil.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

越南围攻中国石油平台 中越火爆对峙

越南海警船试图入侵西沙围攻我海洋石油981，两国船舰大批对峙

这次越南非常猖狂，直接试图在我国领海线4海里外围攻海洋石油981。现在我国海警大批出动保护，连以前多次为辽宁舰护航的那个主力舰也在现场护航！

越南外交部刚发表声明反对中国侵犯越南在东海主权的行为

5月4日，回答记者关于中国海事局2014年5月3日发布航行通告称，钻井平台海洋石油981从2014年5月2日至8月15日在东经(北纬)15度29分58秒、北纬（东经）111度12分06秒的位置展开作业的提问时，越南外交部发言人黎海平指出：

中国海事局航行通告所涉及的海洋石油981钻井平台展开作业的坐标位置完全属于越南专属经济区和大陆架，距离越南海岸线约120海里。

越南有充分的历史证据和法律依据，证明越南对黄沙及长沙两个群岛拥有主权以及根据1982年《联合国海洋法公约》越南对专属经济区和大陆架拥有的主权权利和管辖权”。

“外国在越南海域擅自进行任何活动都是非法和无效的，越南坚决反对这些行为。”，他重申。

另外，越南油气集团也发表通告称，中国海洋石油总公司（CNOOC）2014年5月2日已将海洋石油钻井平台海洋石油981在完全属于越南专属经济区和大陆架，距离越南海岸线120海里的东经(北纬)15度29分、北纬（东经）111度12分的位置进行定位。

越南油气集团的通告明确指出，中国海洋石油总公司上述行为侵犯了越南根据1982年《联合国海洋法公约》拥有的主权权利和管辖权。

越南油气集团2014年5月4日致函中国海洋石油总公司董事长和总经理反对上述行为，并强烈要求中国海洋石油总公司立即停止违法行为，将海洋石油981钻井平台撤离越南海域。

中国海洋石油总公司上述行为完全与两个国家油气集团的合作精神背道而驰，违反国际油气开发管理和越中两国友好合作方针。

越南油气集团要求中国海洋油气集团不让类似行为再次发生。


-------------
with the help of translator software

*Viet Nam besieged oil platforms in China and Vietnam the fiery confrontation *

Viet Nam maritime police vessel tried to invade Xisha besiege me Hai Yang Shi you 981, the two ships large quantities of confrontation between the Viet Nam is very rampant, directly attempting to line 4 of the territorial sea siege Hai Yang Shi you 981 nautical miles. China's maritime police dispatched large protection now, even many times before for Liaoning escort warship escorting that battleship in the scene! Viet Nam Ministry of Foreign Affairs issued a statement against China's violation of Viet Nam in the East China Sea sovereignty on May 4, told reporters about the Chinese Maritime Safety Administration on May 3, 2014 issued NOTAM, Hai Yang Shi you 981 the rig in Tokyo from May 2, 2014, until August 15 (n) 15 degrees 29 minutes and 58 seconds, n (e) 111 degree 12 minutes and 06 seconds where operational questions, Viet Nam Foreign Ministry Li Haiping said China Maritime Safety Administration covered by NOTAM, Hai Yang Shi you 981 rigs fully operational coordinates belonging to Viet Nam's exclusive economic zone and the continental shelf from Viet Nam about 120 nautical miles from the coastline. Viet Nam has adequate historical evidence and legal grounds to prove that Viet Nam has sovereignty over the Paracel and the two islands, as well as in accordance with the 1982 United Nations Convention on the law of Viet Nam to the exclusive economic zone and the continental shelf sovereign rights and jurisdiction '. 'Foreign in Viet Nam waters without permission to undertake any activities are illegal and have no validity, Viet Nam strongly opposed to such acts. 'He reiterated. In addition, the Viet Nam oil and gas group, has issued a circular saying, China National offshore oil Corporation (CNOOC) May 2, 2014, Hai Yang Shi you 981 in total offshore oil rigs belonging to Viet Nam's exclusive economic zone and the continental shelf from Viet Nam 120 nautical miles east of the shoreline (latitude), 15 degrees, 29 minutes, North latitude (East longitude) location of 111 degrees, 12 minutes to navigate. Viet Nam oil and gas group's announcement made clear that China National offshore oil Corporation, the above violation of Viet Nam under the 1982 United Nations Convention on the law of the sovereign rights and jurisdiction. Viet Nam oil and gas group, wrote to the Chairman and General Manager of China National offshore oil Corporation on May 4, 2014 against such acts, and to strongly demand that China National offshore oil Corporation to immediately stop the illegal practice, 981 offshore oil rig evacuation of Viet Nam waters. China National offshore oil Corporation, the acts completely runs counter to the spirit of cooperation between the two national oil and gas group, violating international and Vietnamese-Chinese friendly and cooperative approach to oil and gas development management. Viet Nam oil and gas group calls for China's offshore oil and gas group does not allow similar acts from happening again.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

BoQ77 said:


> -------------
> with the help of translator software
> 
> *Viet Nam besieged oil platforms in China and Vietnam the fiery confrontation *
> 
> Viet Nam maritime police vessel tried to invade Xisha besiege me Hai Yang Shi you 981, the two ships large quantities of confrontation between the Viet Nam is very rampant, directly attempting to line 4 of the territorial sea siege Hai Yang Shi you 981 nautical miles. China's maritime police dispatched large protection now, even many times before for Liaoning escort warship escorting that battleship in the scene! Viet Nam Ministry of Foreign Affairs issued a statement against China's violation of Viet Nam in the East China Sea sovereignty on May 4, told reporters about the Chinese Maritime Safety Administration on May 3, 2014 issued NOTAM, Hai Yang Shi you 981 the rig in Tokyo from May 2, 2014, until August 15 (n) 15 degrees 29 minutes and 58 seconds, n (e) 111 degree 12 minutes and 06 seconds where operational questions, Viet Nam Foreign Ministry Li Haiping said China Maritime Safety Administration covered by NOTAM, Hai Yang Shi you 981 rigs fully operational coordinates belonging to Viet Nam's exclusive economic zone and the continental shelf from Viet Nam about 120 nautical miles from the coastline. Viet Nam has adequate historical evidence and legal grounds to prove that Viet Nam has sovereignty over the Paracel and the two islands, as well as in accordance with the 1982 United Nations Convention on the law of Viet Nam to the exclusive economic zone and the continental shelf sovereign rights and jurisdiction '. 'Foreign in Viet Nam waters without permission to undertake any activities are illegal and have no validity, Viet Nam strongly opposed to such acts. 'He reiterated. In addition, the Viet Nam oil and gas group, has issued a circular saying, China National offshore oil Corporation (CNOOC) May 2, 2014, Hai Yang Shi you 981 in total offshore oil rigs belonging to Viet Nam's exclusive economic zone and the continental shelf from Viet Nam 120 nautical miles east of the shoreline (latitude), 15 degrees, 29 minutes, North latitude (East longitude) location of 111 degrees, 12 minutes to navigate. Viet Nam oil and gas group's announcement made clear that China National offshore oil Corporation, the above violation of Viet Nam under the 1982 United Nations Convention on the law of the sovereign rights and jurisdiction. Viet Nam oil and gas group, wrote to the Chairman and General Manager of China National offshore oil Corporation on May 4, 2014 against such acts, and to strongly demand that China National offshore oil Corporation to immediately stop the illegal practice, 981 offshore oil rig evacuation of Viet Nam waters. China National offshore oil Corporation, the acts completely runs counter to the spirit of cooperation between the two national oil and gas group, violating international and Vietnamese-Chinese friendly and cooperative approach to oil and gas development management. Viet Nam oil and gas group calls for China's offshore oil and gas group does not allow similar acts from happening again.



Vietnam's missiles coastal defence are also supporting Vietnam's Sea Police, ready to send the Chinese rig into seabed if necessary.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Rechoice

cirr said:


> Tuoitrenews
> 
> Updated : 05/05/2014 10:21 GMT + 7
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The HD 981 drilling rig of the China National Offshore Oil Corporation (CNOOC) is seen in this file photo.
> File photo
> 
> *The Vietnamese Ministry of Foreign Affairs has issued a statement objecting to China’s illegal operation of a drilling rig in Vietnam’s waters in the East Sea, and the Vietnam Oil and Gas Group (PetroVietnam) has demanded that the China National Offshore Oil Corporation (CNOOC) move the rig out of the Southeast Asian country’s exclusive economic zone and continental shelf.*
> 
> On May 3, the Chinese Maritime Safety Administration released a maritime warning on its website, saying that China’s drilling rig HD 981 began operating in a location of 15°29’58’’ North latitude and 111°12’06’’ East longitude in the East Sea on May 2 and will continue to operate until August 15, said Vietnamese Ministry of Foreign Affairs spokesperson Le Hai Binh.
> 
> In the warning, the Chinese Maritime Safety Administration also bans all vessels from entering the area where the rig is operating within a radius of one nautical mile.
> 
> The announced location of the drilling rig is totally within the exclusive economic zone and continental shelf of Vietnam, about 119 nautical miles (221 km) from Ly Son Island off the central Vietnamese province of Quang Ngai and 18 nautical miles south of Tri Ton Island of Vietnam’s Hoang Sa (Paracel) archipelago, the spokesman said.
> 
> “Vietnam has full historical evidence and legal grounds to prove its sovereignty over Hoang Sa and Truong Sa archipelagos as well as sovereign rights and jurisdiction over its exclusive economic zone and continental shelf in accordance with the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea,” Binh said.
> 
> The diplomat stressed that “any activities conducted by foreign countries in Vietnam’s waters without Vietnam’s permission is illegal and void. Vietnam resolutely opposes such activities.”
> 
> *Request for removal of rig*
> 
> PetroVietnam, the national oil group, has also released a statement saying that on May 2, CNOOC put the drilling rig HD 981 into operation about 120 nautical miles from Vietnam’s coast and within the country’s exclusive economic zone and continental shelf.
> 
> The fact that CNOOC operates the rig in this location has violated Vietnam’s sovereign and jurisdictional rights according to the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea, PetroVietnam said.
> 
> On May 4, PetroVietnam sent a letter to the president and general director of CNOOC that strongly opposed the violation and demanded that CNOOC stop the operation of the drilling rig and move the platform out of Vietnam’s waters.
> 
> The above action by CNOOC goes against the cooperative spirit between the national oil and gas groups of both countries, the practice of international oil and gas activities, and the friendly and cooperative principles between Vietnam and China, PetroVietnam said in the letter.
> 
> PetroVietnam requests that CNOOC not repeat similar actions in the future.
> 
> In talking with_ Tuoi Tre_ newspaper on May 4 about the illegal operation of the CNOOC drilling rig, Dang Cong Ngu, chairman of Hoang Sa District, central Da Nang City, said, “This is a perverse and illegal action, as the location of the CNOOC drilling rig is within the exclusive economic zone and continental shelf of Vietnam. As the chairman of Hoang Sa District, I strongly oppose this action.”
> 
> Vietnam protests China’s illegal operation of drilling rig in Vietnamese waters




*"Vietnam protests China’s illegal operation of drilling rig in Vietnamese waters"*

The thread is clear about aggressive action of Chinese invaders in Vietnam waters. 

We have right to destoy it if China don't move it away from our waters.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Beast

Rechoice said:


> *"Vietnam protests China’s illegal operation of drilling rig in Vietnamese waters"*
> 
> The thread is clear about aggressive action of Chinese invaders in Vietnam waters.
> 
> We have right to destoy it if China don't move it away from our waters.


Vietnam got no balls to destroy it. We got more and bigger patrol. We got more and bigger,more sophisticated warship. The best of all , we got better economy and more money while vietnam even needs to cancel asian game 2019 to save some money.

Vietnam will submit to China soon. If you are an egg, dont pretend to be a stone. End of the day, the one bleeding will be vietnam.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## boomslang

cirr said:


> I hear that our Vietnamese friends love green turnips。
> 
> True or false？




That pic looks like it's from the '60's. Is that supposed to be current day ?


----------



## terranMarine

We are waiting for Vietcongs to fire the missile, so where's the news you macacas destroyed our rig? If we don't get any updates within a few days we can conclude you guys are cowards.


----------



## BoQ77

terranMarine said:


> We are waiting for Vietcongs to fire the missile, so where's the news you macacas destroyed our rig? If we don't get any updates within a few days we can conclude you guys are cowards.



1. At this moment, no plan to use missile, even firearm ...
2. No. 981 still nowhere near the location, where authority ships of Vietnam patrolling .. and pushing Chinese ships out of the area. As I know 981 still outside of Vietnam EEZ.
3. China has everything, except, the* Righteousness *. 'Cause they don't follow their signed international rules and laws.
That's why Vietnam is in position to stay on site and push Chinese ships out.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## terranMarine

BoQ77 said:


> 1. At this moment, no plan to use missile, even firearm ...
> 2. No. 981 still nowhere near the location, where authority ships of Vietnam patrolling .. and pushing Chinese ships out of the area. As I know 981 still outside of Vietnam EEZ.
> 3. China has everything, except, the* Righteousness *. 'Cause they don't follow their signed international rules and laws.
> That's why Vietnam is in position to stay on site and push Chinese ships out.



In other words it's useless posting your Vietcong missile photos if you macacas don't even dare to fire.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Pangu

That oil rig really touch a bunch of nerves & it hasn't start drilling yet.


----------



## BoQ77

terranMarine said:


> In other words it's useless posting your Vietcong missile photos if you macacas don't even dare to fire.



When Chinese soldiers invade to Vietnam land in 1979, they didn't think that Vietnam does dare to fire, did they ?

Vietnam ever use the most simple weapon to defeat Imperialism in Vietnam. So the missiles are more advanced to us for protecting our sovereignity ...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TaiShang

A good move to enhance China's energy security through diversification. China's national (crude oil&natural gas) production should not go under the current (45% of the total energy used) levels.


----------



## EastSea

Beast said:


> Vietnam got no balls to destroy it. We got more and bigger patrol. We got more and bigger,more sophisticated warship. The best of all , we got better economy and more money while vietnam even needs to cancel asian game 2019 to save some money.
> 
> Vietnam will submit to China soon. If you are an egg, dont pretend to be a stone. End of the day, the one bleeding will be vietnam.



don't forget that china ran back with bloody head, the last is 1979.


----------



## BoQ77

TaiShang said:


> A good move to enhance China's energy security through diversification. China's national (crude oil&natural gas) production should not go under the current (45% of the total energy used) levels.



Robbing / Stealing is never considered as Good !!!


----------



## EastSea

TaiShang said:


> A good move to enhance China's energy security through diversification. China's national (crude oil&natural gas) production should not go under the current (45% of the total energy used) levels.



drill in yours, not in our EZZ. china is going to collapse soon.


----------



## BoQ77

xudeen said:


> That oil rig really touch a bunch of nerves & it hasn't start drilling yet.



Vietnam always could broascasting the warning for missile testing area on site ...
We are in position to do so, but China isn't . Try to launch a missile to our sea, don't you dare ?


----------



## TaiShang

BoQ77 said:


> Robbing / Stealing is never considered as Good !!!



It is not stealing. China drills in its own waters. If you are willing, we can cooperate and drill jointly. This way, your energy companies can learn from China's.



EastSea said:


> drill in yours, not in our EZZ. china is going to collapse soon.



We have full faith in China. You will grow old and bald waiting for China to collapse.

So many sorry species-being passed away waiting for the US to collapse (Not that I would be sorry if it did).


----------



## BoQ77

TaiShang said:


> It is not stealing. *China drills in its own waters. *If you are willing, we can cooperate and drill jointly. This way, your energy companies can learn from China's.



Your opinion is totally legal baseless.
Would we go for a court / arbitration ?

Or a 4 sides meeting : ASEAN, China, Vietnam, USA.

As we remember during Tonkin Gulf Incident 1964, USS Maddox approached Gulf of Tonkin by go through what you called "your own waters, between Paracels and Hainan ...

Paracels itself belong to Vietnam which is robbed by China force, 
You even cannot claim Paracels is yours ...


----------



## cirr

A thief crying。。。

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Edison Chen

BoQ77 said:


> Or a 4 sides meeting : ASEAN, China, Vietnam, USA



please......


----------



## Economic superpower

Try and stop us if you can

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## BoQ77

Economic superpower said:


> Try and stop us if you can



So far, we are stopping the Oil Rig cause it cannot approach the site

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Economic superpower

BoQ77 said:


> So far, we are stopping the Oil Rig cause it cannot approach the site



Proof?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Pangu

BoQ77 said:


> Vietnam always could broascasting the warning for missile testing area on site ...
> We are in position to do so, but China isn't . Try to launch a missile to our sea, don't you dare ?



Do it, don't troll.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

中国南海钻油引发中越大批海警船对峙_国际_多维新闻网

【多维新闻】越南外交部4日指责中国在南海钻油作业违反国际法，并要求中方停止作业。但中国方面对越方的指责不予理会，并强调中方在中国领海内作业，合法合理。

*越南抗议中国南海钻油作业*

《菲律宾星报》（Philstar）5月5日指出，越南外交部4日发表声明指责中国在南海钻油作业违反国际法。据越南外交部指出，中方探勘开采的位置是在越南的200海里经济水域之内，中国的做法违反了联合国1982年实施的《国际海洋法公约》。

越 南外交部发表的声明，谴责中国海洋石油总公司“海洋石油981”号钻井平台在中国西沙中建岛以南进行钻井作业，“侵犯了越南根据1982年《联合国海洋法 公约》拥有的主权权利和管辖权”。声明指出，未经该国同意，在此水域进行的任何活动“均属非法”，并称对之“严厉抗议”。

越南国营企业——越南石油与天然气集团也要求“海洋石油981”号钻油平台所属的中国海洋石油总公司“立即停止”在南海的探勘与开采、并撤出“越南领海”。该公司并称，如俄国、美国等外国石油公司在南海的开采作业，都是经过越南当局核准的。

*中国反驳越方指责*

中 国海事局5月5日在其网站上公布称，海洋石油981号钻油平台即日起在南海探钻到今年8月15日。根据公告，探勘的位置是在北纬15-29.58度/东经 111-12.06度，并公告称以此为圆心，半径3海里范围内禁止其他船舶进入。英国广播公司（BBC）5日指出，上述范围是中国实际控制、但是越南也宣 称拥有主权的争议性水域。

BBC指出，中国外交部发言人华春莹5日在例行记者会上对此表示，海洋石油981号平台的作业位置是在中国领海之内。

值得注意的是，中国外交部公布的当日例行记者会新闻稿中并没有涉及“南海钻油作业”的内容，也没有提及华春莹有关“海洋石油981号平台的作业位置是在中国领海之内”的言论。

*中越大批海警船对峙*

中 国海事局3日发布《琼航警第0033号》航行警告，宣布5月2日至8月15日期间，“海洋石油981”号钻井平台在以北纬15度29分58秒、东经111 度12分06秒点为圆心，1海里为半径范围内进行钻井作业，其他无关船只禁止驶入。随后，越南海警出动多艘船只试图干扰“海洋石油981”号钻井平台正常 作业。

中国海事局5日更新了“琼航警0034”航行警告，宣布将禁航半径扩大为3海里。同时，中国海警多艘海警船也前往相关海域。目前，中国海警船正与越南船只在中建岛以南17海里处对峙。

据 悉，“海洋石油981”号被称作深水半潜式钻井平台，由中船集团为中国海洋石油总公司设计与建造，是中国首座深水钻井平台，造价约60亿人民币（约合 9.606亿美元）。平台长114米，宽90米，高112米，重量超过3万吨，整个平台共有五层，有两层位于甲板下。平台采用8台各5,530千瓦的柴油 发电机作为动力来源，拥有8台各重55吨的推进器，每台功率4,600千瓦，最大航速为8节。平台可在不超过3,000米水深的海域进行钻探工作，钻井深 度最多1.2万米，可变载荷9,000吨。




[ News] multidimensional Vietnamese Foreign Ministry on the 4th accused China in the South China Sea oil drilling operations in violation of international law , and asked China to stop the operation . But China has ignored the accusations against the Vietnamese side , and stressed that China 's territorial waters in the China operations, legal and reasonable .Vietnam protests China Sea oil drilling operations" Philippine Star " (Philstar) 5月5 , pointed out that the 4th Vietnamese Foreign Ministry issued a statement accusing China in the South China Sea oil drilling operations in violation of international law. According to the Vietnamese Ministry of Foreign Affairs pointed out that the position of the Chinese mining exploration within 200 sea miles in the waters of Vietnam 's economy , China 's violation of the " International Convention on the Law of the Sea ," the implementation of the United Nations in 1982 .Vietnamese Foreign Ministry issued a statement condemning the China National Offshore Oil Corporation "Offshore Oil 981 " No. rig drilling operations in the south of China built in the Xisha Islands , " a violation of Vietnam under the 1982 " United Nations Convention on the sovereign rights " have and jurisdiction . " The statement pointed out , without the consent of the country , any activity in this waters " are illegal ," adding to the "severe protest ."State-owned enterprises in Vietnam - Vietnam Oil and Gas Group also requires "Offshore Oil 981 " No. rig belongs to China National Offshore Oil Corporation " immediately stop " exploration and exploitation in the South China Sea , and the withdrawal of " Vietnam 's territorial waters ." The company said, adding that countries such as Russia , the United States and other foreign oil companies in the mining operations in the South China Sea , after the Vietnamese authorities are approved .China accuses Vietnam rebuttalChina Maritime Safety Administration announced on May 5 , said on its Web site , No. 981 offshore oil rig in the South China Sea exploration drill now on August 15 this year . According to the announcement , mining position 15-29.58 degrees latitude / longitude 111-12.06 degrees , and announced that this was the center of a circle , Radius 3 nautical miles prohibit other vessels to enter. British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC) 5 said today that China's actual control of the above-mentioned range , but Vietnam also claims sovereignty over the controversial waters.BBC noted that Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Hua Chunying 5, 2011 at a regular press conference expressed the job position No. 981 offshore oil platforms in the Chinese territorial waters .Notably , the Chinese Foreign Ministry announced in a press release the same day routine press conference did not involve " the South China Sea oil drilling operations " content, but also did not mention Hua Chunying on " job position offshore oil platform is 981 in China within the territorial waters "remarks.Large -Vietnam maritime police boat confrontationChina Maritime Safety Administration released the 3rd "Joan Aviation Police No. 0033 " navigational warnings , announced between May 2 to August 15 date , "Offshore Oil 981 " number rigs in latitude 15 degrees 29 minutes 58 seconds , longitude 111 degrees 12 minutes 06 seconds as the center point , one sea mile radius of drilling operations within the scope of other unrelated vessels prohibited from entering . Subsequently, the Vietnam Marine Police dispatched a number of boats trying to interfere with "Offshore Oil 981 " for the normal operation of the drilling platform .China Maritime Safety Administration on the 5th update of the " King Air Police 0034 " navigational warnings , announced that it will expand the no-fly radius of three nautical miles. Meanwhile, Chinese maritime police vessels Coast Guard boat to the relevant area . Currently, Chinese maritime police ship is in confrontation with the Vietnamese vessel built in 17 sea miles south of the island .It is reported that , " Offshore Oil 981 " was called deepwater semi-submersible drilling platform , by the CSSC Group is China National Offshore Oil Corporation, design and construction , is China 's first deepwater drilling platform , cost about 6 billion yuan (U.S. $ 960.6 million ) . 114 m platform length , 90 meters wide and 112 meters high , weighs more than 30,000 tons , the entire platform a total of five, with two layers located under the deck. Platform with eight each 5,530 kW diesel generator as a power source , with a weight of 55 tons each of eight thrusters , each power of 4,600 kW, maximum speed is 8 . Platform at no more than 3,000 meters deep waters drilling , drilling depth of up to 12,000 meters , variable load of 9,000 tons.



Economic superpower said:


> Proof?



Our ships even surrounding Paracels ... so how 981 could reach the drilling site

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## TaiShang

BoQ77 said:


> Your opinion is totally legal baseless.
> Would we go for a court / arbitration ?
> 
> *Or a 4 sides meeting : ASEAN, China, Vietnam, USA.*
> 
> As we remember during Tonkin Gulf Incident 1964, USS Maddox approached Gulf of Tonkin by go through what you called "your own waters, between Paracels and Hainan ...
> 
> Paracels itself belong to Vietnam which is robbed by China force,
> You even cannot claim Paracels is yours ...



We can negotiate on bilateral basis. No need to get the US involved more than it already is.

Do not trust the US that much by the way. They may support you today against China but, tomorrow, they may support the Phil against you. 

So, gather together however national power you have and sit at the negotiation table with China and do your best for a bargain. We will approach you moderately and tolerantly, rest assured, and respect you more than we do today as a spare tire to the US.


----------



## BoQ77

Lat/Lon
17.42864 N / 110.68767 E
Course/Speed
151.7 ° / 0 kn.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## EastSea

TaiShang said:


> We can negotiate on bilateral basis. No need to get the US involved more than it already is.
> 
> Do not trust the US that much by the way. They may support you today against China but, tomorrow, they may support the Phil against you.
> 
> So, gather together however national power you have and sit at the negotiation table with China and do your best for a bargain. We will approach you moderately and tolerantly, rest assured, and respect you more than we do today as a spare tire to the US.



bilateral for the two side disputed Islands, for Hoang Sa only.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## BoQ77

Yeah

We keep ordering China to negotiate about returning Paracels Island to us ...
similar to Bach Long Vi islands, China liberated Bach Long Vi from KMT and return to us ...

For Paracels, you take it from South Vietnam and now it's time to return to us as there's only 1 reunited Vietnam.
There's no other claimant ...

The location as planned for Oil Rig 981 is illegal because it's undisputed area, it clearly belong to Vietnam EEZ ... let's see the divident of Tonkin Gulf

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## BoQ77

TaiShang said:


> We can negotiate on bilateral basis. No need to get the US involved more than it already is.
> 
> Do not trust the US that much by the way. They may support you today against China but, tomorrow, they may support the Phil against you.
> 
> So, gather together however national power you have and sit at the negotiation table with China and do your best for a bargain. We will approach you moderately and tolerantly, rest assured, and respect you more than we do today as a spare tire to the US.



Wish your China ever could make us believe in what you said.
We get China support to defeat French and early phase of Vietnam War against US ...
really appreciated that. But after your leaders push us out of your arms by financing Khmer Rouge to invade us, and yourself invaded us too.

Some dozen of thousand deaths for both during 1979 war could make you proud of ? Your leaders are guilty for both Chinese and Vietnamese people.

*The last bullet that killed our men is from Chinese gunmen ... and the next bullet would be from the same *

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## applesauce

NiceGuy said:


> Scud missile with the range of 550-700km is enough to reach to all of ur base in SCS(east sea). Shaddock missile ,range 550km can be used to attack ur base too.



vietnam operates scub-b which is limited to 300 km and being land based, it does not have the range to cover a majority of the seas

further more the Shaddock missile(product of the 50's) is outdated having a CEP of some 5000m and having a ranged of some 500km it too cannot cover all the scs

just face the facts, other than a USN intervention, there little to no chance of vietnam winning in any SCS scenario, due to the massive disparities in the military forces. the facts being as they are, the vietnamese government is not going to unilaterally start attacking chinese assets, because thats a really dumb idea and would given the PRC all the pretence it needs to lock down the entire sea, while preventing the involvement of the USN. the story would be wildly different of course if the PLAN fired first.

therefore whatever they are building, will get built, there will be complaints but little if any action. Now vietnam could also build on reefs/islands it controls, and it has clearly done so, having occupied the most number of islands in the area out of all the claimants. but its also possible that china will try to intercept the ships, as it did so against the philippines a little while ago.


----------



## rott

Beast said:


> why would US fight for a small.insignificant country like vietnam? Very sad vietnam is alone.


I think the US will fight. It's not about fighting for the insignificant Vietnam, it's everything about their (US) own interest, i,e,. to contain China and dominate Asia.


----------



## BoQ77

rott said:


> I think the US will fight. It's not about fighting for the insignificant Vietnam, it's everything about their (US) own interest, i,e,. to contain China and dominate Asia.



The letter during 1945 ...

Like the Philippines our goal is full independence and full cooperation with the UNITED STATES, We will do out best to make this independence and cooperation profitable to the whole world 

Ho Chi Minh


----------



## ViXuyen

applesauce said:


> vietnam operates scub-b which is limited to 300 km and being land based, it does not have the range to cover a majority of the seas
> 
> further more the Shaddock missile(product of the 50's) is outdated having a CEP of some 5000m and having a ranged of some 500km it too cannot cover all the scs
> 
> just face the facts, other than a USN intervention, there little to no chance of vietnam winning in any SCS scenario, due to the massive disparities in the military forces. the facts being as they are, the vietnamese government is not going to unilaterally start attacking chinese assets, because thats a really dumb idea and would given the PRC all the pretence it needs to lock down the entire sea, while preventing the involvement of the USN. the story would be wildly different of course if the PLAN fired first.
> 
> therefore whatever they are building, will get built, there will be complaints but little if any action. Now vietnam could also build on reefs/islands it controls, and it has clearly done so, having occupied the most number of islands in the area out of all the claimants. but its also possible that china will try to intercept the ships, as it did so against the philippines a little while ago.


Your airforce has little to no air refueling capabilities to put a sizeable # of jets in the SCS from its base in Hainan, my friend. This is why Vietnam holds the upper hand in this conflict in the SCS and your military knows it. In the 90's when your 4th generation jets outnumbered us at least 20 to 1 and we had no submarines whatnot and you did not dare to attack us; let alone NOW. Even 40 of our Su-22 armed with Kh-31 missiles can give you a run for your money in any SCS conflict. Funny how you talk about naval blockade of Vietnam. Our shore-based AShM like Shaddock (550 km), Kh-35 locally produced (280 km) and Yakhont (300 km) can easily blast any of your surface vessels to smithereens and I don't even take into account our submarine and missile boats that you will also have to face.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## rott

Chinese_is_invader said:


> Of course, Chinese are always opportunists, he invaded Vietnamese (a former ally indeed) without any reason, without informing officially like USA and Russia. What a grown-up gentlemen! So far, we learnt that Chinese should not be trust forever. Therefore, upgrading our nation military strength will be a non-stop strategy to protect itself from very greedy Chinese.


@Aeronaut, @Hu Songshan, @Oscar improper ID should be banned.


----------



## Edison Chen

Chinese_is_invader said:


> Let's think, a nuclear-powered Japan will be again a threat for Middle Kingdom. Will Japanese f**k Chinese *** like he has done in Nanjing =)))



@Hu Songshan @Aeronaut 

Dafuq? This ID and comment.


----------



## cirr

CNOOC 981 rig has started drilling which will last some 100 days May 4 to Aug. 15.

Everything is going according to plan。


----------



## applesauce

ViXuyen said:


> Your airforce has little to no air refueling capabilities to put a sizeable # of jets in the SCS from its base in Hainan, my friend. This is why Vietnam holds the upper hand in this conflict in the SCS and your military knows it.



i agree

the area is too large and the PLAAf has too few refueler to effectively control the area from the skies, but it need not controll every square inch of the air space, just the parts where it matters.

nonetheless PLAAF can still put the largest air group in the skies out off all the claimants. furthermore, this problem might be precisely why they are building on these islands, to further consolidate their advantage.



ViXuyen said:


> This is why Vietnam holds the upper hand in this conflict in the SCS and your military knows it.



despite the range issue, the PLAAF can still put more birds in the air than the 24 su-30 the vietnam has(quite a bit more actually) furthermore, the PLAN has 054A and 052Cs frigate/destoryers which are very dangerous foes for su-30s, in addition to being able to park systems like the HQ-9 right on the islands themselves., all of which means its highly doubtful if the vietnamese air force will take part in any hypothetical conflict at all, due to the very high chance the planes won't return.



ViXuyen said:


> In the 90's when your 4th generation jets outnumbered us at least 20 to 1 and we had no submarines whatnot and you did not dare to attack us; let alone NOW. Even 40 of our Su-22 armed with Kh-31 missiles can give you a run for your money in any SCS conflict. Funny how you talk about naval blockade of Vietnam. Our shore-based AShM like Shaddock (550 km), Kh-35 locally produced (280 km) and Yakhont (300 km) can easily blast any of your surface vessels to smithereens and I don't even take into account our submarine and missile boats that you will also have to face.



i did not advocate that china attack vietnam at all. in fact i only responded when a vietnamese member suggest that vietnam will launch missiles and attack whatever china is building, which i am pointing out here that is a extremely bad idea, and once again, those land base missile DO NOT have the range so they wont be blasting anything to smithereens. basically anywhere 500km or more from the vietnam coast, china has the advantage.


----------



## Kyle Sun

NiceGuy said:


> And we had been waiting for ur frigate beside ur oil rig for 2 years already, still dont see China has the guts to do it


You are right , I do not have the gut to place any military over there .

We can only deploy 981 there and we are waiting you guys to destroy it !!

Do it like man with guys , OK?



NiceGuy said:


> Poor u, paranoid Chinese, can u show me that oil rig is drilling inside our water now ??



In your logic , if the rig is not drilling , that will be ok for you ?

You guy are really funny , I can not control to laugh!

I must say :your mouth is really tough !!!!


----------



## Kyle Sun

Rechoice said:


> a country who completely colonized by Manchus until 1911, Portual in Macau to 1977, Britain in Hongkong to 1999. and Taiwan is under protectorate of US today, this is big boy but bad boy, and big mouth. Look at yourselves first.


No matter what , we are much better than you !

I am curious about the rig's working process. 

We use underwater pipe to transfer the oil or oil boat ??


----------



## Economic superpower

CPC has said we will continue to drill for oil and gas. What is Vietnam going to do about it?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

Kyle Sun said:


> No matter what , we are much better than you !
> 
> I am curious about the rig's working process.
> 
> We use underwater pipe to transfer the oil or oil boat ??



As I said, the oil rig is not on site and never could approach the site ...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Kyle Sun

BoQ77 said:


> As I said, the oil rig is not on site and never could approach the site ...


If so , why you protest so excitedly?


----------



## BoQ77

Kyle Sun said:


> If so , why you protest so excitedly?



not only protest, our coastguard force working hard to keep Chinese aggressive forces shut up ...

no protest, you may bring the oil rig into the entrance of our rivers

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Kyle Sun

BoQ77 said:


> not only protest, our coastguard force working hard to keep Chinese aggressive forces shut up ...
> 
> no protest, you may bring the oil rig into the entrance of our rivers


Okay , your coastguard work so hard , why our 981 is still there in your so called Viet EEZ?


----------



## DT1010

Vietnam needn't to be stronger than china, all we need is stronger than their "south sea fleet"

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## DT1010

Kyle Sun said:


> Okay , your coastguard work so hard , why our 981 is still there in your so called Viet EEZ?


the game hasn't ended yet?
who will lost? can you predict the future?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

Kyle Sun said:


> Okay , your coastguard work so hard , why our 981 is still there in your so called Viet EEZ?



What's "there" ?


----------



## Kyle Sun

BoQ77 said:


> What's "there" ?


Where is 981 now ?



DT1010 said:


> the game hasn't ended yet?
> who will lost? can you predict the future?


I bet China win.


----------



## Rechoice

Kyle Sun said:


> No matter what , we are much better than you !
> 
> I am curious about the rig's working process.
> 
> We use underwater pipe to transfer the oil or oil boat ??



you can swim and carry it to China.



Kyle Sun said:


> Where is 981 now ?
> 
> 
> I bet China win.


rig is in China water now. I bet USA win  back.


----------



## DT1010

Kyle Sun said:


> Where is 981 now ?
> 
> 
> I bet China win.


extractly "where"?
and "I bet China win", an funny joke, but do you know "sick men of asia"?


----------



## Kyle Sun

Rechoice said:


> you can swim and carry it to China.
> 
> 
> rig is in China water now.


Nope . We prefer to stay there and drill some oil .



DT1010 said:


> extractly "where"?
> and "I bet China win", an funny joke, but do you know "sick men of asia"?


Yes , we are the sick man . 

So please come get what you claim which we rob or steal from you .


----------



## Rechoice

Kyle Sun said:


> Nope . We prefer to stay there and drill some oil .
> 
> 
> Yes , we are the sick man .
> 
> So please come get what you claim which we rob or steal from you .



You can not swallow our Islands.


----------



## Kyle Sun

Rechoice said:


> You can not swallow our Islands.


As I said , com get it please!

We are the sick man and you are the Great Viet.


----------



## Rechoice

Kyle Sun said:


> As I said , com get it please!
> 
> We are the sick man and you are the Great Viet.



soon or late, we will take back.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## DT1010

Kyle Sun said:


> As I said , com get it please!
> 
> We are the sick man and you are the Great Viet.


ok, let wait until your drill come at our door, and then we will show you what would we do with pirate. 
uhm, but i don't think you guys can go so far like that

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Kyle Sun

DT1010 said:


> ok, let wait until your drill come at our door, and then we will show you what would we do with pirate.
> uhm, but i don't think you guys can go so far like that


Okay , our rig is not at your door. 

But you guys claim we rob island from Viet ,right ??

Take it back please.



Rechoice said:


> soon or late, we will take back.


10000 years later ?


----------



## cirr

China expands the area of operation in response to Vietnam's “protest”：

HN0034 SOUTH CHINA SEA DRILLING WORK BY M/V “ HAI YANG SHI YOU 981 ” IN AREA WITHIN 3 MILES RADIUS OF 15-29.58N 111-12.06E FROM 04 MAY TO 15 AUG. ENTERING PROHIBITED.CANCEL HN0033 14. HAINAN MSA CHINA

HN0034 replaces HN0033. Check it out。

IN AREA WITHIN 3 MILES RADIUS OF。。。

in place of

IN AREA WITHIN 1 MILE1 RADIUS OF.。。。

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Rechoice

Kyle Sun said:


> Okay , our rig is not at your door.
> 
> But you guys claim we rob island from Viet ,right ??
> 
> Take it back please.
> 
> 
> 10000 years later ?



may be, but this tension is still going on. Good political choice.



cirr said:


> China expands the area of operation in response to Vietnam's “protest”：
> 
> HN0034 SOUTH CHINA SEA DRILLING WORK BY M/V “ HAI YANG SHI YOU 981 ” IN AREA WITHIN 3 MILES RADIUS OF 15-29.58N 111-12.06E FROM 04 MAY TO 15 AUG. ENTERING PROHIBITED.CANCEL HN0033 14. HAINAN MSA CHINA
> 
> HN0034 replaces HN0033. Check it out。
> 
> IN AREA WITHIN 3 MILES RADIUS OF。。。
> 
> in place of
> 
> IN AREA WITHIN 1 MILE1 RADIUS OF.。。。



this is demo photo from China water.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Pangu

Look on the bright side, there may only be a fart worth of gas in the area. No pun intended. 

So calm down.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

As considered illegal operation, the oil rig would be *confiscated *if operate in Vietnam EEZ ...

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Pangu

OK. Everyone keep their missiles & help mum prepare dinner.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## CN.Black

DT1010 said:


> Vietnam needn't to be stronger than china, all we need is stronger than their "south sea fleet"


 South Sea Fleet is the strongest fleet of PLAN,it has 9 destoryers,23 frigates,3 coverttes,20+SSKs,4 SSBN,3 LPDs,13 landing ships,4 supply ships etc.Your junk navy will never be stronger than South Sea Fleet.Actually,South Sea Fleet will be stronger and stronger and soon become China's Indian Ocean Fleet.Good luck to you.


----------



## CN.Black

DT1010 said:


> Vietnam needn't to be stronger than china, all we need is stronger than their "south sea fleet"


South Sea Fleet's new toy DDG172 Kunming




And 173 will join soon



More in ship yards


----------



## Beast

rott said:


> I think the US will fight. It's not about fighting for the insignificant Vietnam, it's everything about their (US) own interest, i,e,. to contain China and dominate Asia.


 Sorry, US are no mood to fight senseless war. Russia is also a rising threat but they dare not fight for Georgia and ukraine despite their wish to contain Russia. Same goes for China. Fight for vietnam?



Economic superpower said:


> CPC has said we will continue to drill for oil and gas. What is Vietnam going to do about it?


 Farting and nothing 



EastSea said:


> don't forget that china ran back with bloody head, the last is 1979.


 I remember 1988 johnson south skirmish, you seems to forget it


----------



## DT1010

CN.Black said:


> South Sea Fleet's new toy DDG172 Kunming
> 
> 
> 
> And 173 will join soon
> 
> 
> 
> More in ship yards


if there toy have ability to make an bettle at about 400km from there base

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ViXuyen

applesauce said:


> i agree
> despite the range issue, the PLAAF can still put more birds in the air than the 24 su-30 the vietnam has(quite a bit more actually) furthermore, the PLAN has 054A and 052Cs frigate/destoryers which are very dangerous foes for su-30s, in addition to being able to park systems like the HQ-9 right on the islands themselves., all of which means its highly doubtful if the vietnamese air force will take part in any hypothetical conflict at all, due to the very high chance the planes won't return.


The range is your enemy as you don't have the capabilities to put a sizeable jets* all in once at the same time* to give u the numerical superiority over our 36 Flankers. When you run out of fuel or on your way home to do your refueling, even our Mig21 parked along the coast can attack you. Your frigates and destroyers will be countered by our low flying Su22 which are armed with KH-31 missiles or our Su30 which are armed with standoff range missiles like the KH-59mk. I'm pretty sure our military feels more than confident with our 36 Flankers and 40 Su22 to deal with China in the SCS conflict that's why we chose to spend $3 billion for the submarines instead of using that money for another 60 Flankers. It's interesting how you talk about parking your SAMs on your reefs while our newly acquired EXTRA rocket with low CEP can take them out with ease..not to mention we have real islands in the SCS that we can park our S-300 too. At this moment, we hold the military advantage over the conflict in the SCS, my friend.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## NiceGuy

Kyle Sun said:


> Okay , our rig is not at your door.
> 
> But you guys claim we rob island from Viet ,right ??
> 
> Take it back please.
> 
> 
> 10000 years later ?


China economy is collapsing like USSR, and terrorist r killing ur people day after day coz ur Govt have No more money to protect ur people. Seem like we soon will take back our islands without a single bullet coz China is in serious chao now 


> *China’s looming debt bomb: Shadow banking and the threat to growth*
> NATHAN VANDERKLIPPE AND ERIC REGULY
> 
> BEIJING AND LONDON — The Globe and Mail
> 
> Published Saturday, May. 03 2014, 5:00 AM EDT
> 
> Last updated Saturday, May. 03 2014, 5:00 AM EDT
> 
> 
> China’s looming debt bomb: Shadow banking and the threat to growth - The Globe and Mail

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

Articles about HAI YANG 981 on Gobal Time and other Chinese news site was get off from this evening, seem like PRC will compromise about this case.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Economic superpower

cirr said:


> China expands the area of operation in response to Vietnam's “protest”：
> 
> HN0034 SOUTH CHINA SEA DRILLING WORK BY M/V “ HAI YANG SHI YOU 981 ” IN AREA WITHIN 3 MILES RADIUS OF 15-29.58N 111-12.06E FROM 04 MAY TO 15 AUG. ENTERING PROHIBITED.CANCEL HN0033 14. HAINAN MSA CHINA
> 
> HN0034 replaces HN0033. Check it out。
> 
> IN AREA WITHIN 3 MILES RADIUS OF。。。
> 
> in place of
> 
> IN AREA WITHIN 1 MILE1 RADIUS OF.。。。



Vietnam is powerless to stop China.


----------



## iajj

what makes the operation "illegal"? you viets' superior military?


----------



## EastSea

iajj said:


> what makes the operation "illegal"? you viets' superior military?



The thief steal property of his neighbor, this deal is illegal.


----------



## Kyle Sun

NiceGuy said:


> China economy is collapsing like USSR, and terrorist r killing ur people day after day coz ur Govt have No more money to protect ur people. Seem like we soon will take back our islands without a single bullet coz China is in serious chao now


Good idea !!!

Do nothing but waiting for our collapse. 

And I wish you guys can do me a favor , as you said ,we are collapsing.

Can you leave us alone and shut up , no more complain about we robbing your island etc and let us enjoy the last tranquility before we collapse?



EastSea said:


> The thief steal property of his neighbor, this deal is illegal.


A country who tried to annex his neighbor countries has no qualification to talk about we are illegal or not.


----------



## BoQ77

iajj said:


> what makes the operation "illegal"? you viets' superior military?



China Maritime Safety announced the coordinates of planned drilling site for Hai Yang Shi You 981, which is proved as illegal announcement,
any accordingly movement approach that site is illegal,

Vietnam Foreign Affair Dept. exchanged to Chinese counterpart about 
the Fact that several China authority ships illegal operating in Vietnam EEZ ... and order China to withdraw all out of the area.

Vietnam Coast Guard sea and air keeping the site and recorded several evidence of illegal operations of Chinese ships.
We could use that to bring China to International court, UN ...


----------



## Nice_guy

iajj said:


> what makes the operation "illegal"? you viets' superior military?


We understand our military strength is not that "superior" in comparison with giant Chinese, but we are able to protect our territory until the last blood. Even though it is time-consuming, we will finally win like historical war with many superpowers French , Japanese, American and Chinese.


----------



## Nice_guy

DT1010 said:


> Vietnam needn't to be stronger than china, all we need is stronger than their "south sea fleet"


I agree. Because Chinese have to face with Japanese and American at East Sea Fleet and potentially against Russia at North Sea Fleet. Too big is not always advantage.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

Kyle Sun said:


> A country who tried to annex his neighbor countries has no qualification to talk about we are illegal or not.



don't lie.

China signed UNCLOS, but don't respect it. Chinese is dirty sea pirate.


----------



## Kyle Sun

EastSea said:


> don't lie.
> 
> China signed UNCLOS, but don't respect it. Chinese is dirty sea pirate.


I lie ?

So Viet never tried to annex Thai Laos Cam ?

Answer me!


----------



## EastSea

Kyle Sun said:


> I lie ?
> 
> So Viet never tried to annex Thai Laos Cam ?
> 
> Answer me!



Thai Lao Cam is independent states now, member of UN, kid.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## BoQ77

* U.S. criticizes Chinese oil rig move amid Vietnam protests *
Presented by Smilling Date：2014-5-7 08:26 求翻译

The United States on Tuesday sharply criticized the movement of a huge Chinese oil rig that Vietnam says has entered its waters, the latest show of Beijing's growing assertiveness to raise alarm among smaller countries in the region.

By Greg Torode

HONG KONG (Reuters) - The United States on Tuesday sharply criticized the movement of a huge Chinese oil rig that Vietnam says has entered its waters, the latest show of Beijing's growing assertiveness to raise alarm among smaller countries in the region.

The Vietnamese accusation came days after U.S. President Barack Obama visited Asia to underline his commitment to allies there, including Japan and the Philippines who are themselves locked in territorial disputes with China.

Obama, promoting a strategic "pivot" toward the Asia-Pacific region, also visited South Korea and Malaysia, but not China.

Vietnam has condemned the operation of the deepwater drilling rig in what it says are its waters in the South China Sea, and told China's state-run oil company to remove it.

In Washington, U.S. State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki told reporters: "Given the recent history of tensions in the South China Sea, China's decision to operate its oil rig in disputed waters is provocative and unhelpful to the maintenance of peace and stability in the region."

"These events point to the need for claimants to clarify their claims in accordance with international law, and reach an agreement ... about what types of activities should be permissible within disputed areas," she added.

Vietnam also protested the move.

"Vietnam cannot accept this, and resolutely protests this action by China," the foreign ministry said on its website, summarizing comments by Foreign Minister and Deputy Prime Minister Pham Binh Minh, who spoke to his Chinese counterpart by telephone on Tuesday.

"We request China pulls out the ... rig and all vessels from this area ... Vietnam will take all suitable and necessary measures to protect our legitimate rights and interests."

A ministry official said the two countries had been in direct talks about the issue since Sunday, but did not say how China had responded to Vietnam's requests. China has said the rig was operating completely within its waters.

Daniel Russel, Assistant U.S. Secretary of State for East Asian and Pacific Affairs, said the United States was looking into the matter, but urged caution from all sides.

"We believe that it is critically important for each of the claimant countries to exercise care and restraint," he told Reuters during a visit to Hong Kong ahead of a previously scheduled trip to Hanoi on Wednesday.

"The global economy is too fragile and regional stability is too important to be put at risk over short term economic advantage."

China claims almost the entire oil- and gas-rich South China Sea, rejecting rival claims to parts of it from Vietnam, the Philippines, Taiwan, Malaysia and Brunei. It also has a separate maritime dispute with Japan.

EXCLUSION ZONE

Its claims coincide with growing diplomatic and military influence in the region and have raised fears of possible conflict.

The Maritime Safety Administration of China (MSAC) announced on its website on Saturday that all vessels should keep one mile away from the rig, called the Haiyang Shiyou 981. It expanded that to three miles on Monday.

The $1 billion rig is owned by China's state-run CNOOC oil company and it had been drilling south of Hong Kong.

On Sunday, Vietnam said the coordinates of the rig put it in Vietnam's exclusive economic zone and on its continental shelf, about 120 nautical miles off its coast.

But, like other Asian nations involved in territorial disputes with China, Vietnam appears to have limited options when dealing with the emerging superpower.

The Philippines said last month that the United States had a treaty obligation to help in case of an attack on its territory or armed forces in the South China Sea, although Obama did not say categorically that Washington would do so.

In 1992, Vietnam sent naval vessels into an area where China signed a contract with a U.S. firm to develop oil and natural gas in what it said were its waters.

"From 1992 until now, I haven't seen any action from Vietnam stronger than that," said a Vietnamese academic who specializes in South China Sea affairs.

"My guess is either this action from China is to send a message to the United States after Obama's Asia visit, or to direct the community to this topic to distract them from the terror in Xinjiang."

China's nervousness about Islamist militancy has grown since a car burst into flames on the edge of Beijing's Tiananmen Square in October and 29 people were stabbed to death in March in the southwestern city of Kunming.

The government blamed militants from the far-western region of Xinjiang for both attacks.

China routinely sends patrols into the South China Sea, mostly involving the coast guard and civilian maritime protection force rather than the navy.

But the positioning of such a large structure in disputed waters was seen by some analysts as a significant escalation in the dispute.

Singapore-based South China Sea expert Ian Storey said the rig movement risked a "potentially very dangerous scenario."

"There have been standoffs with survey ships in the past, but this is something new," said Storey of the Institute of South East Asian Studies.

"There's been a great deal of speculation about how China would use this expensive new rig and it seems we now have the answer. It puts Vietnam in a very difficult position."

"They will have to respond to a challenge to their sovereignty, and when they do, China will be sure to make a counter move, so we are in a situation where a potentially very dangerous scenario could unfold."

China's Global Times, an influential tabloid published by the ruling Communist Party's official People's Daily, wrote in an editorial on Tuesday that China should show a "firm attitude" towards Vietnam.

"China follows a moderate policy. But no country can always show a smiling face to the world. China shouldn't be angered easily, but if its interests are infringed upon, a strong retaliatory move should be expected," it said.

(Additional reporting by Nguyen Phuong Linh in Hanoi, Ben Blanchard in Beijing and Arshad Mohammed in Washington; Writing by Nick Macfie; Editing by Mike Collett-White and Chris Reese)

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Kyle Sun

EastSea said:


> Thai Lao Cam is independent states now, member of UN, kid.



You tried and you failed!

You even have no guts to admit what you did !

Coward !


----------



## terranMarine

In other words all the Jungle can do is protest, no balls to fire as these Vietcongs like to make us believe they will destroy the rig.


----------



## CN.Black

DT1010 said:


> if there toy have ability to make an bettle at about 400km from there base


 Of course,just one can destroy your junk navy.In addition,we have hundreds of JH7A to deal with your fish boats.




PS: Your English is too poor,you'd better do more practice.



Chinese_is_invader said:


> I agree. Because Chinese have to face with Japanese and American at East Sea Fleet and potentially against Russia at North Sea Fleet. Too big is not always advantage.


Stop your day dreaming.This is South Sea Fleet


----------



## EastSea

Kyle Sun said:


> You tried and you failed!
> 
> You even have no guts to admit what you did !
> 
> Coward !



we punished Thai, bcz thai kissed *** USA in Vietnam war. China kissed *** USA 1972, 1979. Cowardice chinese dare not facing with Japan in Senkaku.
its as shamefull for China.


----------



## EastSea

CN.Black said:


> Of course,just one can destroy your junk navy.In addition,we have hundreds of JH7A to deal with your fish boats.
> 
> 
> 
> PS: Your English is too poor,you'd better do more practice.
> 
> 
> Stop your day dreaming.This is South Sea Fleet



such fake toys are usless


----------



## Kyle Sun

EastSea said:


> we punished Thai, bcz thai kissed *** USA in Vietnam war. China kissed *** USA 1972, 1979. Cowardice chinese dare not facing with Japan in Senkaku.
> its as shamefull for China.


How about Cam and Laos?

Did they also kiss *** of USA? Why you attack them also ?

You guys always say people kiss *** of USA or RU with the reason of diplomatic relation like you are the only brave nation.

Remember , you guys set up bilateral diplomatic relation also


----------



## Globenim

EastSea said:


> such fake toys are usless


More than good enough to deal with Vietnam.


----------



## southeastasiansea

On May 2, 2014, China blatantly moved a deep-water drilling rig HD-981 into the location of 15o29’ north latitude, 111o12’ east longitute, just about 120 nautical miles from Vietnam’ coast and within Vietnam’s exclusive economic zone and continental shelf. This illigal drilling operation infringed upon sovereignty and jurisdiction of Vietnam according to the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea. On May 4, 2014, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Vietnam resolutely and vociferously protested this move. In recent days, international opinion also has been discontented with the brazen act conducted by China. Professor Keith Johnson from Department of Linguistics, University of Carlifornia Berkeley made a commentary on Foreign Policy Magazine on this issue. The following is full of article.

_Beijing's deployment of its billion-dollar oil rig sends a clear message to Vietnam: We'll drill where we damn well please._

China has triggered a potentially dangerous escalation in tensions in the South China Sea with the dispatch over the weekend of the Haiyang Shiyou 981, a massive billion-dollar rig designed to drill for oil in waters claimed by both Beijing and Hanoi.
Vietnam has vociferously protested the move because the rig is squarely inside the 200-mile exclusive economic zone that extends offshore from every country; China, which claims the nearby Paracel Islands, says the rig is legal because it is working in waters that it says belong to Beijing.
It's hardly the first time that the search for energy has sparked fights between China and its neighbors in the region, but the latest step is a big deal for several reasons.
China had carried out energy survey activities in disputed areas, and prevented other countries, including Vietnam, from carrying out their own surveys in disputed waters, but this seems to be the first time that Chinese oil companies are actually drilling wells in waters claimed by other nations. Just as alarmingly, China and Vietnam have a history of armed conflict, including a bloody land war in 1979 and a series of armed skirmishes over disputed islands in the South China Sea. The oil drilling issue could potentially trigger a new round of sparring.
The Chinese move also represents a slap in the face to President Barack Obama, who just returned from a trip to Asia designed to reassure jittery allies like Japan, South Korea, and the Philippines that the U.S. would deter Chinese maritime bullying. Six days later, Beijing took one of its most provocative steps to date. A State Department spokesperson didn't respond to requests for comment. 
The dispatch of an oil rig by itself is hardly enough to unleash the dogs of war, but is meant to slowly assert Chinese control over the region, experts said.
"It's going to be one more of these small, incremental steps that individually won't lead to conflict, but collectively over time gradually will change the status quo," said Mike McDevitt, a retired admiral and head of strategic studies at the Center for Naval Analyses.
A spokesperson for the Chinese Foreign Ministry defended the deployment of the rig, saying that it is operating "completely within the waters of China's Paracel Islands," Reuters reported. China has occupied the Paracel Islands since the 1970s, and also claims the maritime resources around those specks of land. That's part of Beijing's expansive view of its sovereign rights in the South China Sea, the so-called "nine-dashed-line" that the current regime inherited from Chinese nationalists at the end of the civil war in the late 1940s.
Vietnam's Foreign Ministry and state oil firm PetroVietnam, unsurprisingly, both protested the move. The Foreign Ministryd said that the move is a "violation of Viet Nam's sovereign rights," since the rig is located in waters that only Vietnam has the right to exploit for undersea resources. PetroVietnam asked China National Offshore Oil Corporation, a state-owned giant, to remove the rig and cease drilling activities there in the future.
The South China Sea is the biggest flashpoint for potential conflict between China and neighbors like Vietnam and the Philippines, and others; the sea is both a byway for trillions of dollars in international trade and potentially sits atop a mother lode of oil and gas resources coveted by energy-poor countries in the region. Manila recently took Beijing to an international tribunal in The Hague over competing claims to tiny specks of land in the South China Sea, in part because it believes there are plentiful deposits of oil and gas off the Philippine coast.
The quest for oil and gas lies behind the latest incident, at least superficially. China publicly announced in 2012 that it would auction off energy-exploration rights in disputed waters; at the same time, CNOOC took the unusual step of building its own deep-water rig rather than contracting to purchase one from specialized suppliers. That was a costly, but necessary, step for China's oil company to take: CNOOC did not want to have to rely on Western companies to supply drilling gear for contentious areas of the South China Sea because the companies could have potentially refused to lease the equipment to CNOOC if it was going to be used on controversial deepwater projects.
Last weekend, CNOOC dispatched the rig to drill in deep waters about 120 nautical miles east of the Vietnamese coast, not far from where international oil firms such as Exxon Mobil have found potentially large deposits of natural gas. It seems part and parcel of CNOOC's stated strategy of dispatching oil rigs to serve as "mobile national territory" that can extend Chinese sovereignty to open waters.
"I think this is the other shoe dropping, which is the Chinese actually going to go out and drill for oil" in those disputed areas, said Holly Morrow, an expert on the South China Sea at Harvard University's Belfer Center.
China's apparent escalation with the dispatch of the rig is especially surprising because the two countries signed an accord in 2011 to peacefully resolve South China Sea disputes, as they successfully did with maritime borders in the Gulf of Tonkin.
"I thought that agreement cooled down the rhetoric between Vietnam and China, and that China would not go out of its way to humiliate the Vietnamese," said McDevitt. "But the Chinese seem to feel they have a good argument for going where they're going, and they are going to do it."
The U.S. as a rule doesn't take a position as to who owns what in the disputed areas, but in recent years has stressed the need for states such as Vietnam and China to rely on the rule of law to settle disputes over territory and maritime rights in the South China Sea. In December, Secretary of State John Kerry announced a deal to help strengthen the Vietnamese coast guard, in part to help parry Chinese territorial expansion in the area.
Oil and gas rigs are the pointy ends of the battle over sovereignty, but there is plenty of uncertainty over just how energy-rich the area really is. In part, that is because all the territorial disputes have discouraged large-scale surveys of potential oil and gas resources.
The U.S. Energy Information Administration estimates that the South China Sea holds the modest amount of 11 billion barrels of oil and 190 trillion cubic feet of natural gas. CNOOC believes there could be ten times as much oil and plenty more gas in the South China Sea. Vietnam, bolstered by recent work by firms such as Exxon, is also bullish on the energy prospects in parts of the South China Sea it considers its own.
But regardless of how much energy actually lies under the ocean, Beijing's heavy-handed approach to regional relations and the damage it has caused could hardly be worth tapping some extra barrels of oil, said Morrow of the Belfer Center. That makes the constant tug-of-war, provocations, and brinksmanship more about national sovereignty than a scramble for resources.
"The cost in foreign policy terms of what they are doing is so high, and so outweighs whatever energy security benefit there is," she said.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## DT1010

Kyle Sun said:


> How about Cam and Laos?
> 
> Did they also kiss *** of USA? Why you attack them also ?
> 
> You guys always say people kiss *** of USA or RU with the reason of diplomatic relation like you are the only brave nation.
> 
> Remember , you guys set up bilateral diplomatic relation also


Vietnam attack laos? when?
i know chinaman is being lied by government but at this rate is unbelievable
and about cambodia, they firstly attacked us


----------



## DT1010

Globenim said:


> More than good enough to deal with Vietnam.


i think its would sunk before its could reach the target

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ViXuyen

Since we already sent our coast guard to this area to confront the Chinese, we might as well use this opportunity to grab a few Paracel reefs too since the location of this rig is very near the Paracel.


----------



## Economic superpower

What's wrong with us exploring resources in our sea? I don't see anything wrong with it.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Economic superpower

ViXuyen said:


> Since we already sent our coast guard to this area to confront the Chinese, we might as well use this opportunity to grab a few Paracel reefs too since the location of this rig is very near the Paracel.



War with the PLA will mean disaster to the Viets. So there won't be a war.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## bolo

Good news.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

Don't drive away the topic ...

Some Chinese articles said about Vietnam Coast Guard aggression.

Let us know, What do you expect China Coast Guard do if other country bring their oil rig into China EEZ ?
Let think and you understand us ...


----------



## applesauce

ViXuyen said:


> The range is your enemy as you don't have the capabilities to put a sizeable jets* all in once at the same time* to give u the numerical superiority over our 36 Flankers.



oh its clear now you have exactly* ZERO* idea of what you are taking about, a flanker, such as the su-30 or su-27 or its chinese variants, j--11/B, has 3000-3500 km range, more than enough to take off from hainan and have sufficient loiter time over the scs(distance of about 1000 km). now vietnam has 34(su-30 and su-27) current with 12 more (su-30) on order, PLAAF on the other hand flys close to 300 flanker variants, and the PLAN as an additional 70ish(and increasing). China can *easily* put a sizable fleet in the air over the SCS, and it doesn't even have to be all of them, not even close, just 20% of the chinese flanker force is more than twice of what vietnam operates. therefore you claim is completely wrong.



ViXuyen said:


> When you run out of fuel or on your way home to do your refueling, even our Mig21 parked along the coast can attack you. Your frigates and destroyers will be countered by our low flying Su22 which are armed with KH-31 missiles or our Su30 which are armed with standoff range missiles like the KH-59mk.



who on earth said, they would fly close to the vietnamese coast? and the chinese navy can sink the entire vietnamese navy then have your air force for dessert. with a large number of 054A and 052C and soon 052D which far out ranges the KH-59ME(export) version which vietnam operates,(~120km range), the hhq-9 on the 052c max range is 200km in other words, those su-22s would never get close enough to launch any missiles worth worrying about. ur migs are even more laughable, mig-21/j-7 are known for their short legs, they can at best go 500km before having to turn back, if u wanna get into battle at all, the range is far shorter than 500km, which makes then good for point defence, not so good for attacking out to sea.



ViXuyen said:


> I'm pretty sure our military feels more than confident with our 36 Flankers and 40 Su22 to deal with China in the SCS conflict that's why we chose to spend $3 billion for the submarines instead of using that money for another 60 Flankers.



oh lol. is that what you think? the subs are 1000x more survivable in a naval war with china than any of your jets, because if those jets take off, they're not going back home. while the subs at least have a chance if they keep quiet, and china still has a weak link in the form of its asw capabilities compared with its advances in other areas.



ViXuyen said:


> It's interesting how you talk about parking your SAMs on your reefs while our newly acquired EXTRA rocket with low CEP can take them out with ease..not to mention we have real islands in the SCS that we can park our S-300 too. At this moment, we hold the military advantage over the conflict in the SCS, my friend.



hahah, you are getting funnier and funnier, you plan to use a land based rocket system with 150km range to strike at targets 500km+ away? just how delusional are you? the reason china can park a s-300/hq-9 system in the islands is because its safe from other forms of attack, namely attacks from naval ships, given the vast PLAN superiority over the vietnamese navy, any s-300 system you park on an island is going to be toast, not by planes but by attacks from ships, and china doesnt need to park any such system really, cause the 052c carrys the naval version of the hq-9 anyways.

so to sum it up.

vietnam has about zero advantages once we are 300km or so away from its coast
your missiles dont have the range
you navy cant protect your islands
your airforce cant achieve any kind of air supirority

ps: stop confusing what the soviet/russians operate with what they export(downgraded) to vietnam, there is a huge difference.


----------



## Huan

By now you should already get the idea that anytime China tries to assert her legitimate core national interests these days, the United States will criticize it. Washington does not really support your core interests. So don't try to please Washington too much.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ViXuyen

Economic superpower said:


> War with the PLA will mean disaster to the Viets. So there won't be a war.


If the American are willing to sell us the F-35 like they're willing to sell us the nuke reactor, I would say the time has come for us to retake the Paracel by force. 

The garrison on the Paracel is weak, a preemptive strike can take it back pretty quick. Once we retake the Paracel, we would need to set up SAM on the island pretty quick. Keeping it is more difficult as we would have to face air attack from you. With a single F-35 can shoot down 3 J-20, the addition of the F-35 will help secure the air from any attack right away.


----------



## bolo

ViXuyen said:


> If the American are willing to sell us the F-35 like they're willing to sell us the nuke reactor, I would say the time has come for us to retake the Paracel by force.
> 
> The garrison on the Paracel is weak, a preemptive strike can take it back pretty quick. Once we retake the Paracel, we would need to set up SAM on the island pretty quick. Keeping it is more difficult as we would have to face air attack from you. With a single F-35 can shoot down 3 J-20, the addition of the F-35 will help secure the air from any attack right away.


Even if they are willing to sell, you folks can't afford it. 200m USD per plane. Save your money for the Asian games or feed the poor.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Kyle Sun

DT1010 said:


> Vietnam attack laos? when?
> i know chinaman is being lied by government but at this rate is unbelievable
> and about cambodia, they firstly attacked us


Okay You do not believe me and our propaganda also 
Just google "Viet attack Laos", you believe google ,right ?
And Many Viet members in PDF admit this , you guys want to unify Mekong region.


----------



## cirr

16 Vietnamese ships against 44 Chinese ships。

China expanded the restricted area in response to Vietnam‘s attempt to force its way into an earlier declared no-sail zone。



Kyle Sun said:


> Okay You do not believe me and our propaganda also
> Just google "Viet attack Laos", you believe google ,right ?
> And Many Viet members in PDF admit this , you guys want to unify Mekong region.



Yeah。Very true。And these guys eaily get high on wet dreams。


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

(Reuters) - Contact has been lost with 11 fishermen in the South China Sea after they were intercepted by "armed men", China's state news agency Xinhua reported on Wednesday.

They were on board the fishing boat Qiongqionghai 09063, which was "intercepted by an unidentified armed vessel at about 10 a.m. in waters off" the Spratly Islands, Xinhua said, citing a fishing association in Qionghai on China's southern island province of Hainan.

It provided no other details.

Contact lost with fishermen in South China Sea after interception by 'armed men' - Xinhua| Reuters


----------



## Kyle Sun

cirr said:


> 16 Vietnamese ships against 44 Chinese ships。
> 
> China expanded the restricted area in response to Vietnam‘s attempt to force its way into an earlier declared no-sail zone。
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah。Very true。And these guys eaily get high on wet dreams。


44 ships ?

All coastguard ships ?


----------



## Huan

ViXuyen said:


> If the American are willing to sell us the F-35 like they're willing to sell us the nuke reactor, I would say the time has come for us to retake the Paracel by force.
> 
> The garrison on the Paracel is weak, a preemptive strike can take it back pretty quick. Once we retake the Paracel, we would need to set up SAM on the island pretty quick. Keeping it is more difficult as we would have to face air attack from you. With a single F-35 can shoot down 3 J-20, the addition of the F-35 will help secure the air from any attack right away.


Why do you keep depending on the USA to help get it back? Use your own sweat and blood to get it. Build your own jets and weapons for a change!


----------



## sincity

Don't bother alert me, I don't care when VietNam and China start a war with each other.


----------



## Huan

China, you should provide standard naval escorts to your fishing boats on a routine basis. The South China Sea is increasingly a highly contested area by your neighbors.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## KAL-EL

sincity said:


> Don't bother alert me, I don't care when VietNam and China start a war with each other.



How very pragmatic of you my friend. Regarding a possible war. Anything is of course possible. Right now though, that's mainly the genocidal ramblings of some belligerent hyper-nationalists around here. Outside of their PDF fantasy land, the "real world" operates a lot different.


----------



## bolo

applesauce said:


> oh its clear now you have exactly* ZERO* idea of what you are taking about, a flanker, such as the su-30 or su-27 or its chinese variants, j--11/B, has 3000-3500 km range, more than enough to take off from hainan and have sufficient loiter time over the scs(distance of about 1000 km). now vietnam has 34(su-30 and su-27) current with 12 more (su-30) on order, PLAAF on the other hand flys close to 300 flanker variants, and the PLAN as an additional 70ish(and increasing). China can *easily* put a sizable fleet in the air over the SCS, and it doesn't even have to be all of them, not even close, just 20% of the chinese flanker force is more than twice of what vietnam operates. therefore you claim is completely wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> who on earth said, they would fly close to the vietnamese coast? and the chinese navy can sink the entire vietnamese navy then have your air force for dessert. with a large number of 054A and 052C and soon 052D which far out ranges the KH-59ME(export) version which vietnam operates,(~120km range), the hhq-9 on the 052c max range is 200km in other words, those su-22s would never get close enough to launch any missiles worth worrying about. ur migs are even more laughable, mig-21/j-7 are known for their short legs, they can at best go 500km before having to turn back, if u wanna get into battle at all, the range is far shorter than 500km, which makes then good for point defence, not so good for attacking out to sea.
> 
> 
> 
> oh lol. is that what you think? the subs are 1000x more survivable in a naval war with china than any of your jets, because if those jets take off, they're not going back home. while the subs at least have a chance if they keep quiet, and china still has a weak link in the form of its asw capabilities compared with its advances in other areas.
> 
> 
> 
> hahah, you are getting funnier and funnier, you plan to use a land based rocket system with 150km range to strike at targets 500km+ away? just how delusional are you? the reason china can park a s-300/hq-9 system in the islands is because its safe from other forms of attack, namely attacks from naval ships, given the vast PLAN superiority over the vietnamese navy, any s-300 system you park on an island is going to be toast, not by planes but by attacks from ships, and china doesnt need to park any such system really, cause the 052c carrys the naval version of the hq-9 anyways.
> 
> so to sum it up.
> 
> vietnam has about zero advantages once we are 300km or so away from its coast
> your missiles dont have the range
> you navy cant protect your islands
> your airforce cant achieve any kind of air supirority
> 
> ps: stop confusing what the soviet/russians operate with what they export(downgraded) to vietnam, there is a huge difference.


No point wasting your time to educate these lowlife . They will call you 'kid' and give you some illogical response. Better to leech, than to teach.


----------



## ViXuyen

applesauce said:


> oh its clear now you have exactly* ZERO* idea of what you are taking about, a flanker, such as the su-30 or su-27 or its chinese variants, j--11/B, has 3000-3500 km range, more than enough to take off from hainan and have sufficient loiter time over the scs(distance of about 1000 km). now vietnam has 34(su-30 and su-27) current with 12 more (su-30) on order, PLAAF on the other hand flys close to 300 flanker variants, and the PLAN as an additional 70ish(and increasing). China can *easily* put a sizable fleet in the air over the SCS, and it doesn't even have to be all of them, not even close, just 20% of the chinese flanker force is more than twice of what vietnam operates. therefore you claim is completely wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The distant between Hainan to the Spatly is about 1500 km while the combat range of the Flankers and its variants is 2000 km; 3000+ km is just ferry range. Yes, you will need serious refuel to go to Spratly. Hence, you can only put a limited # of jets all in once at the same time which will limit your numerical superiority over us. And get real please, you have more jets but many more enemies to deal with and more territory to guard. If there is military conflict, it will be between the Guangzhou Military District's airforce at most. My estimate is that at best you can put 10 jets all in once at the same time.
> 
> Does it look to you like we're losing sleep over your airforce having any kind of advantage over us in the Spratly? Had we converted 6 submarines into 60 Flankers, we would have had 96 Flankers at the moment but we chose not to because your airforce was never viewed as the biggest threat to us.
> 
> 
> 
> who on earth said, they would fly close to the vietnamese coast? and the chinese navy can sink the entire vietnamese navy then have your air force for dessert. with a large number of 054A and 052C and soon 052D which far out ranges the KH-59ME(export) version which vietnam operates,(~120km range), the hhq-9 on the 052c max range is 200km in other words, those su-22s would never get close enough to launch any missiles worth worrying about. ur migs are even more laughable, mig-21/j-7 are known for their short legs, they can at best go 500km before having to turn back, if u wanna get into battle at all, the range is far shorter than 500km, which makes then good for point defence, not so good for attacking out to sea.
> 
> Who told you that the Kh-59MK is 120 km?. The Russian sold us the Yakhont at 300 km so you would better believe that the Kh-50mk is 285 km. The Migs21 can carry two a2a missiles to attack you while you are doing refueling or on your one way mission back to base, my friend
> 
> Do you know how the curvature of the earth blocks radar detection range? If our Su22 fly at 200 meters above sea level, your radar can only pick us up at 80 km. At that range, we're already in the range of the KH-31 missiles to launch at your ship http://members.home.nl/7seas/radcalc.htm You want to talk about how your navy can sink our navy in a ship to ship engagement? Sorry to disappoint you but the curvature of the earth won't allow your radar to pick us up earlier and vice versa. In a ship to ship engagement, our missile boats can fire 16 kh-35 missiles at you and God helps you if you can engage those missiles from all directions
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> oh lol. is that what you think? the subs are 1000x more survivable in a naval war with china than any of your jets, because if those jets take off, they're not going back home. while the subs at least have a chance if they keep quiet, and china still has a weak link in the form of its asw capabilities compared with its advances in other areas.
> 
> Ok, our subs can use to launch anti-ship missiles then.
> 
> 
> 
> hahah, you are getting funnier and funnier, you plan to use a land based rocket system with 150km range to strike at targets 500km+ away? just how delusional are you? the reason china can park a s-300/hq-9 system in the islands is because its safe from other forms of attack, namely attacks from naval ships, given the vast PLAN superiority over the vietnamese navy, any s-300 system you park on an island is going to be toast, not by planes but by attacks from ships, and china doesnt need to park any such system really, cause the 052c carrys the naval version of the hq-9 anyways.
> 
> Since you mention that you're going to put your SAMs on the Spartly reefs, I can tell you that a 150km rocket can take them out with ease because all the reefs/islands in this area are very close to each other, sometimes just a few nautical miles apart. We can park our S-300 on the Spratly to provide extra air cover for our airforce while you hopelessly trying to park your SAM on a congested reefs; good luck with that
> 
> so to sum it up.
> 
> vietnam has about zero advantages once we are 300km or so away from its coast
> your missiles dont have the range
> you navy cant protect your islands
> your airforce cant achieve any kind of air supirority
> 
> ps: stop confusing what the soviet/russians operate with what they export(downgraded) to vietnam, there is a huge difference.


Points are addressed above, you hold ZERO advantage over our airforc and navy over the Spratly; that's the reason why you did not even dare to attack us when we were in the 90's

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ViXuyen

bolo said:


> Even if they are willing to sell, you folks can't afford it. 200m USD per plane. Save your money for the Asian games or feed the poor.


You're wrong. If we can spend $3 billion for the package of submarines in 2009, we can spend $5 billion for the F-35 with no problem. It's all boiled down to politics, not affordability.


----------



## NiceGuy

SCS(east sea) is having serious conflict now,so, Dont go fishing ! for ur own safety 



Huan said:


> China, you should provide standard naval escorts to your fishing boats on a routine basis. The South China Sea is increasingly a highly contested area by your neighbors.


China navy is busy with conflict around its big oil rig now. No time for watching their fishermen

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Edison Chen

kidnapper's identity confirmed yet?> I guess it's filipinos did this, almost everyday there are at least some kidnaps happening in that shithole 3rd world country. They make a living by kidnapping, just like Somalia.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

in the phone call to Chinese State Councilor Yang Jiechi, Vietnam FM Pham warns China that Vietnam will take all necessary measures to protect its legitimate rights and interests.


----------



## NiceGuy

Kyle Sun said:


> Good idea !!!
> 
> Do nothing but waiting for our collapse.
> 
> And I wish you guys can do me a favor , as you said ,we are collapsing.
> 
> Can you leave us alone and shut up , no more complain about we robbing your island etc and let us enjoy the last tranquility before we collapse?


We r nice people, we help u guys to realise the serious situation of China and stop doing nosense in SCS(east sea), u guys should protect ur families from terrorism instead of having conflict with VN in some where u never come . If communist China collapse , then communist VN will get in trouble too, we dont want that thing happen.

But if u keep pushing us, then, we have No choice but sit and watch China falling and dominated by eight nations alliance again


----------



## Huan

Viet said:


> in the phone call to Chinese State Councilor Yang Jiechi, Vietnam FM Pham warns China that Vietnam will take all necessary measures to protect its legitimate rights and interests.


I am waiting for Vietnam to fire their first shot then.


----------



## Viet

Huan said:


> Why do you keep depending on the USA to help get it back? Use your own sweat and blood to get it. Build your own jets and weapons for a change!


do you live constantly in the past?
will the past save our problems and conflicts of today?

NO, what we need from America is a fleet of nuclear subs.



Huan said:


> I am waiting for Vietnam to fire their first shot then.


all things will come in due time.


----------



## TaiShang

Criticism is healthy. That keeps us aware of the situation. US can keep criticizing to the last drop of their ink.

As if they gave a damn when the whole world criticized them on more than one occasion.

China will ignore.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Huan

Viet said:


> do you live constantly in the past?
> will the past save our problems and conflicts today?
> 
> NO, what we need from America is a fleet of nuclear subs.


See, you still depend on the USA for major military equipment to help get the islands. Thanks for confirming.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

We love to hear more criticism from our opponent.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## sincity

Both Vietnamese and Chinese poster need to stop alert me with your fighting words among yourself, I don't give a rat *** about both of you.


----------



## TaiShang

It is good to be proactive and force your adversary to react. This way, we can predict and preempt their actions by conditioning those actions to ours.


----------



## Viet

Huan said:


> See, you still depend on the USA for major military equipment to help get the islands. Thanks for confirming.


why hesitate to get where we can get?

Russia is still the major partner. they count for about 90% of all weapons import.

But things will get interesting as soon as Uncle Sam lifts weapons embargo.


----------



## ViXuyen

How come no videos or pictures from neither side?


----------



## Viet

cirr said:


> 16 Vietnamese ships against 44 Chinese ships。
> 
> China expanded the restricted area in response to Vietnam‘s attempt to force its way into an earlier declared no-sail zone。
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah。Very true。And these guys eaily get high on wet dreams。


do you have the actual position of the rig?


----------



## Edison Chen

Viet said:


> in the phone call to Chinese State Councilor Yang Jiechi, Vietnam FM Pham warns China that Vietnam will take all necessary measures to protect its legitimate rights and interests.



Maybe China will fix phillipine first, then comes Vietnam. Do you agree?


----------



## ViXuyen

Didn't the Chinese mobilize 1 ship for the standoff with the Phil? Now, 44 ships for us. Are you guys trying to gang bang us or something?


----------



## S10

I do hope it's Philippines. Everytime they do this, we should take an island.


----------



## Viet

bolo said:


> Even if they are willing to sell, you folks can't afford it. 200m USD per plane. *Save your money for the Asian games *or feed the poor.


you don´t get it, do you?

the money for the game is now going for the new warships: 10 Molyina´s and 6 Gepard´s.

Warum Vietnam mehr russische Waffen braucht - Nachrichten - Gesellschaft - Stimme Russlands



S10 said:


> Oil drilling time! No need to worry about how monkeys think.


if we are monkey, what are you? chimpanzee?


----------



## Viet

Edison Chen said:


> Maybe China will fix phillipine first, then comes Vietnam. Do you agree?


you changed your avatar. is it you?

No, you are welcome to start the WW III. Come on, start the war against all of your neighbors.


----------



## Viet

Vietnamese Marines: that is the perfect troop in dealing with Chinese pirates.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Yeah, it is Pinoy.

中国渔民在南海遭劫持_资讯频道_凤凰网

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

I guess that's Chinese pirates.


----------



## BoQ77

Edison Chen said:


> You are just jealous, Viet, this is insult, I will report to mod.
> 
> Malaysia, of course.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, you are right, I like Viet girls too. Can you introduce some for me? Thanks.
> 
> Since you can't stop China, why not enjoy it? China didn't exploit SCS, because of offshore drilling is high cost and lack of tech, now our tech is mature, we can handle this situation in SCS.



1. I like Chinese girl appearance too, some very hot looking, but afraid of difference of culture. 
2. You couldnot sure about Malaysia, just guess huh ?
3. Vietnam never say we can't protect our EEZ, it's easier for us to just protect ours, comparing to the mission of reunion of China.


----------



## Edison Chen

Viet said:


> just Malaysia?
> I am afraid you are wrong. the native Malays are keen to kick all chinese a$$ out of the country.
> 
> ha ha ha...that is not an insulting. you should know Vietnam is the most liberal country in Asia on this matter.
> 
> Vietnam legalizes gay weddings | Gay Star News
> Leading the Way: Vietnam’s Push for Gay Rights | The Diplomat



80% Malaysians are in favor of China in 2013, according to a recent report. In Indoneisia, it's more than 60%, same as Russia. And also many Malaysians see China's expansion not a threat. Let alone Thailand and Myanmar, they are friendly.

Why you so obsessed with gay, Viet, is it just because of your liberal culture? You are next Thailand, believe me.



BoQ77 said:


> 1. I like Chinese girl appearance too, some very hot looking, but afraid of difference of culture.
> 2. You couldnot sure about Malaysia, just guess huh ?
> 3. Vietnam never say we can't protect our EEZ, it's easier for us to just protect ours, comparing to the mission of reunion of China.



Not guess, see above.


----------



## BoQ77

I guess that, Vietnam will sign a security pact with US ...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Kyle Sun

BoQ77 said:


> I guess that, Vietnam will sign a security pact with US ...


Yes , you guys do need.


----------



## xunzi

Vietnam needs to stop bullying us by trying to be a victim here. The area we drill is very closer to an island we control.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## KAL-EL

xunzi said:


> Vietnam needs to stop bullying us by trying to be a victim here. The area we drill is very closer to an island we control.



Serious question... How is Vietnam bullying China?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

thing is getting serious.

Vietnamese Ministry of Foreign Affairs met with a representative of the Chinese Embassy in Ha Noi and handed over the diplomatic note demanding the *immediate *offtake from Vietnam waters.



xunzi said:


> Vietnam needs to stop bullying us by trying to be a victim here. The area we drill is very closer to an island we control.


you put an oil rig in our water without permission. that is a serious act.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## xunzi

KAL-EL said:


> Serious question... How is Vietnam bullying China?


They are bullying us by pretending to be a victim and using clever international pressure to stop us from drilling in an area just 18 miles away from Paracel archipelago in which we have total administrative control. If we cannot even drill near a territory we control, then what can we do? Do we need permission from little country like Vietnam whether we are allow to drill near our controlled island?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## KAL-EL

xunzi said:


> They are bullying us by pretending to be a victim and using clever international pressure to stop us from drilling in an area just 18 miles away from Paracel archipelago in which we have total administrative control. If we cannot even drill near a territory we control, then what can we do? Do we need permission from little country like Vietnam whether we are allow to drill near our controlled island?



if you have administrative control, then you should be able to. I'm guessing that Vietnam disputes and says that area is their territory?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

Collision！Collisions！Bang！Bang！！More collisions！

Let's have more！


----------



## xunzi

KAL-EL said:


> if you have administrative control, then you should be able to. I'm guessing that Vietnam disputes and says that area is their territory?


We have said we are open to do joint-development on the overlapping EEZ. The Vietnamese resists bilateral negotiation. It is not their territory. Territorial water only account for 12 miles. The area we drill is 119 miles away from their closest coast.


----------



## KAL-EL

xunzi said:


> We have said we are open to do joint-development on the overlapping EEZ. The Vietnamese resists bilateral negotiation. It is not their territory. Territorial water only account for 12 miles. The area we drill is 119 miles away from their closest coast.



I see, thank you for explaining.


----------



## xunzi

KAL-EL said:


> I see, thank you for explaining.


We always available to settle logically and in objective fashion.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Raphael

Tensions surge in S. China Sea as Philippines seizes Chinese boat| Reuters



> (Reuters) - Philippines police seized a Chinese fishing boat in the disputed South China Sea on Wednesday, an official told Reuters, the latest flare-up of tensions in the oil and gas-rich waters that are claimed wholly or in part by six Asian nations.
> 
> Chief Superintendent Niel Vargas of the Philippine National Police Maritime Group said a maritime police patrol apprehended a Chinese fishing boat around 7 a.m. on Tuesday off Half Moon Shoal.
> 
> The boat has 11 crew and police found about 500 turtles in the vessel, some of which were already dead, he said, adding that a Philippine boat with crew was also seized, and found to have 40 turtles on board. Several species of sea turtles are protected under Philippine law.
> 
> Maritime police are now towing the boats to Puerto Princesa town on the island of Palawan where appropriate charges will be filed against them, Vargas said.
> 
> The incident is bound to raise the ire of Beijing, which claims almost the entire South China Sea, rejecting rival claims from Vietnam, the Philippines, Taiwan, Malaysia and Brunei.
> 
> On Tuesday, China warned Vietnam not to disturb activities of Chinese companies operating near disputed islands in another part of the South China Sea, after Hanoi condemned as illegal the movement of a giant Chinese oil rig into what it says is its territorial waters.
> 
> There are frequent tensions in the South China Sea between China and the other claimant nations, particularly Vietnam and the Philippines, both of which say Beijing has harassed their ships in the waters there.
> 
> The incidents come days after U.S. President Barack Obama visited Asia to underline his commitment to allies there, including Japan and the Philippines, both locked in territorial disputes with China.
> 
> Obama, promoting a strategic "pivot" toward the Asia-Pacific region, also visited South Korea and Malaysia, but not China.
> 
> Half Moon Shoal is within the Philippines' 200-mile exclusive economic zone and near to Second Thomas Shoal, where a small Philippines garrison is based much to China's displeasure.
> 
> A second Philippine source, a senior naval officer, said there were two Chinese boats but the other one escaped.
> 
> China's official Xinhua news agency said contact had been lost with 11 fishermen after they were intercepted by "armed men" in waters not far from the Philippines.
> 
> They were on board the fishing boat Qiongqionghai 09063, which was intercepted by an unidentified armed vessel at about 10 a.m. (0200 GMT) in waters off Half Moon Shoal in the Spratly Islands, Xinhua said, citing a fishing association in Qionghai on China's southern island province of Hainan.
> 
> The shoal is some 100 km (60 miles) from the Philippines' Palawan island.
> 
> "Several armed men forced themselves onto the boat and fired four or five shots in the air. They then took control of the boat," Xinhua said.
> 
> A second fishing boat escaped, but then encountered another armed boat, although it was able to get away, the report added.
> 
> The Qionghai government has sent other trawlers operating close by to help look for the fishermen, but has yet to find them, Xinhua said.




I've been waiting so long for this opportunity. Central govt. better not disappoint.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

xunzi said:


> We have said we are open to do joint-development on the overlapping EEZ. The Vietnamese resists bilateral negotiation. It is not their territory. Territorial water only account for 12 miles. The area we drill is 119 miles away from their closest coast.


you don´t get it, do you?

you took our islands by force. now you put an oil rig into our water EEZ (200 nautical miles from the shore).

do you want a war with Vietnam?










cirr said:


> Collision！Collisions！Bang！Bang！！More collisions！
> 
> Let's have more！


any pictures available?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## OrionHunter

Holy cow on a cracker!! This is really gonna piss off the Chinese!! Exciting times ahead. Let's see how the Chinese react.


----------



## xunzi

The American daddy better gives us a good explanation and forces the Phillipines to release our fisherman.


----------



## xunzi

Viet said:


> you don´t get it, do you?
> 
> you took our islands by force. now you put an oil rig into our water EEZ (200 nautical miles from the shore).
> 
> do you want a war with Vietnam?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> any pictures available?


Stop bullshitting. Paracel Island chain consists of multiple small islands, reefs, and rocks. France invaded us first, ROC at the time, stole the Crescent Group. Later France's colony South VN controlled the Crescent Group while we still controlled the Amphitrite Group. The battle of 1974 with South VN navy ended with defeat and we completely controlled everything.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## NiceGuy

xunzi said:


> The American daddy better gives us a good explanation and forces the Phillipines to release our fisherman.


China navy is busy in the conflict with VN. China has No more power left to threaten Phil

Times for Phil to take back Scaborough shoal when China navy is got stuck around its oil rig

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## xunzi

NiceGuy said:


> China navy is busy in the conflict with VN. China has No more power left to threaten Phil
> 
> Times for Phil to take back Scaborough shoal when China navy is got stuck around its oil rig


You Vietnamese are very stupid. Instead of doing joint-development with us and prevent the Philippines from eating up the pie, you chose to confront us over the Philippines? What exactly does the Philippines offer you in secret? Some small rocks that they control in Spratly?


----------



## maxpayne

Ahem Ahem! where are my pop corns?


----------



## eazzy

**** them 

Whatever China does they will criticise it...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## xunzi

Now that the Philippines escalated tension by unilaterally imposing their aggression on Chinese fisherman in disputed water, will the US reigns in to stop or having double standard as always?


----------



## NiceGuy

xunzi said:


> You Vietnamese are very stupid. Instead of doing joint-development with us and prevent the Philippines from eating up the pie, you chose to confront us over the Philippines? What exactly does the Philippines offer you in secret? Some small rocks that they control in Spratly?


For this question u should ask Mr Jonathan Hanh Nguyen. His first wife was a powerful Filipino woman

Seem like China soon will loose Scarobought shoal if its navy keep stucking around the Oil rig


> Overseas Vietnamese entrepreneur boosts the national economy
> *Jonathan Hanh Nguyen *has made enormous contributions to the national economy, even though he has been living abroad for a long time. He played an important role in establishing an official air-route between Vietnam and the Philippines and has paved the way for many foreign-invested projects in the country.
> 
> *Connecting Vietnam to the world by air*
> Jonathan Hanh Nguyen and his family moved to settle in the Philippines in 1974, when he was just over 20. He later studied aeronautics in the US before becoming the Philippine Airlines chief executive in charge of Indochina.
> 
> 
> *In his position, Hanh Nguyen has been always obsessed with the idea of doing something for his motherland*.
> 
> 
> Before 1985, it was very difficult to travel between Vietnam and other countries, especially by air. The country was then practising a subsidized economy and most of its major flights were via Bangkok, Thailand.
> 
> Overseas Vietnamese entrepreneur boosts the national economy | VOV Online Newspaper

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## sweetgrape

NiceGuy said:


> China navy is busy in the conflict with VN. China has No more power left to threaten Phil
> 
> Times for Phil to take back Scaborough shoal when China navy is got stuck around its oil rig


Hehe, a frog in a well!




NiceGuy said:


> For this question u should ask Mr Jonathan Hanh Nguyen. His first wife was a powerful Filipino woman
> Seem like China soon will loose Scarobought shoal if its navy keep stucking around the Oil rig


Don't stop taking drugs, frog!


----------



## CN.Black

DT1010 said:


> i think its would sunk before its could reach the target


"would sunk"Can you learn English first,before you post your bull shit here.



DT1010 said:


> i think its would sunk before its could reach the target


You should have said "would be sunk",your English is terribly poor.


----------



## CN.Black

Now vietmonkeys are trying to turn to America

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

xunzi said:


> Stop bullshitting. Paracel Island chain consists of multiple small islands, reefs, and rocks. France invaded us first, ROC at the time, stole the Crescent Group. Later France's colony South VN controlled the Crescent Group while we still controlled the Amphitrite Group. The battle of 1974 with South VN navy ended with defeat and we completely controlled everything.


it is you that bullshits.

Vietnam controlled and administered the islands before the arrival of the French. the occupation of the French did not alter our stance of the ownership of the islands. Vietnam won later the war, the French withdrew from Vietnam. the ownership returned to Vietnam.

you took our islands with force. we never recognise your control, administration and ownership, similar to the French invasion of Vietnam.

until now, Vietnam government tolerates your control and administration of Paracels and part of Spratlys, until a final solution is found. now you intend to change the rule of the game by this one-sided act. I guess you want to test our army.

as you are keen on a confrontation, rest assured, when we finish, we not only kick your *** out of SC Sea but the entire SE Asia.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## NiceGuy

sweetgrape said:


> Hehe, a frog in a well!
> 
> 
> 
> Don't stop taking drugs, frog!


Okay, lets wait and see what will happen. China has to move back the Oil rig ..or it will lose the Scaborough shoal

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## sincity

CN.Black said:


> "would sunk"Can you learn English first,before you post your bull shit here.
> 
> 
> You should have said "would be sunk",your English is terribly poor.


 

already told you don't alert with your comment on this topic.


----------



## sweetgrape

NiceGuy said:


> Okay, lets wait and see what will happen. China has to move back the Oil rig ..or it will lose the Scaborough shoal


The tone, little familiar, Still think you are third strongest countres? hehe, you little viet, just a few small boat "drag" the whole China NAVY, and push us out, ver strong "self-confident".

Sorry, that's not China Navy, you can sink it down, why need you wait?!


----------



## Edison Chen

NiceGuy said:


> China navy is busy in the conflict with VN. China has No more power left to threaten Phil
> 
> Times for Phil to take back Scaborough shoal when China navy is got stuck around its oil rig



I think this is none of Vietnam business, right? You feel insecure now, especially after we place the oil rig in your backyard? China can single-handedly take care of both VN and PH simultaneously, kid. There is no such thing - busy.


----------



## Soryu

Tension rise again, situation is very dangerous, may be lead a conflict or a war.
PRC made a very fast and danger move at first.

PRC 981 drilling rig came its operate position from 01-05-2014, they're just spout out later about it.
Now, they used more than 80 ships to defend it, even 7 military ship, include type 054 and type 052B ship.
Vietnam still used ship from Maritime Police and Fishery survey Department to counter them.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## eazzy

Why don't Viet attack Chinese ships ? We are all waiting for it  You'll get what you deserve. We'll see if jungle guerrilla works on water  We'll see the great Viet Russian friendship at work.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

eazzy said:


> Why don't Viet attack Chinese ships ? We are all waiting for it  You'll get what you deserve. We'll see if jungle guerrilla works on water  We'll see the great Viet Russian friendship at work.



we have to fight against FranCe, US and China in the past. why not ?


----------



## Rechoice

what is happen now ?


----------



## DT1010

aggressive china attacked vietnam

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

China is mad.


----------



## DT1010

Edison Chen said:


> I think this is none of Vietnam business, right? You feel insecure now, especially after we place the oil rig in your backyard? China can single-handedly take care of both VN and PH simultaneously, kid. There is no such thing - busy.


talking is useless, let's wait and see

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## revu

What are you guys saying, those pictures only showed that China had been generous to you guys, they only trying to help you guys cleaning your dirty ship.

What is wrong with helping people cleaning?


----------



## Rechoice

sweetgrape said:


> The tone, little familiar, Still think you are third strongest countres? hehe, you little viet, just a few small boat "drag" the whole China NAVY, and push us out, ver strong "self-confident".
> Sorry, that's not China Navy, you can sink it down, why need you wait?!





Edison Chen said:


> I think this is none of Vietnam business, right? You feel insecure now, especially after we place the oil rig in your backyard? China can single-handedly take care of both VN and PH simultaneously, kid. There is no such thing - busy.



we will do every thing which should have to do to protect ourselves.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## DT1010

revu said:


> What are you guys saying, those pictures only showed that China had been generous to you guys, they only trying to help you guys cleaning your dirty ship.
> 
> What is wrong with helping people cleaning?


it seems that you are a typical stupid chinese
at Guangdong, there were a few who tried to be hero of earth, why do you arrest them?
oh, i forgot! they were trying to help some innocent people having a better life

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Rechoice

eazzy said:


> **** them
> 
> Whatever China does they will criticise it...



what wrong with you, join to PLA to do something on our sea, kid.


----------



## BoQ77

KAL-EL said:


> I see, thank you for explaining.



He lied.
The site is entirely in Vietnam EEZ, no overlapping ...
He refered to Triton reef, the site is 18 nm from Triton reef ...

while Paracels is in much more distance ...

btw, Paracels belong to Vietnam, which is illegally robbed by China in 1974 ... US know well about that,
China even kidnapped a US advisor of South Vietnam in paracels that time.

This is apart of divident, agreed by both side for Gulf of Tonkin ...
let connect it with the remain ... 





Map for another incident

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## seven7seven

China can swat Philippines and Vietnamese navies like flies. They only need a proper excuse to do it, so they don't look like the instigator and aggressor. If Philippines were dumb enough to fall for some bait, then that's not very clever. China would love to escalate this crisis so that it can send in significant forces to take control of more contested territory, and justify it as protecting its own fishermen from Philippines harassment.


----------



## DT1010

seven7seven said:


> China can swat Philippines and Vietnamese navies like flies. They only need a proper excuse to do it, so they don't look like the instigator and aggressor. If Philippines were dumb enough to fall for some bait, then that's not very clever. China would love to escalate this crisis so that it can send in significant forces to take control of more contested territory, and justify it as protecting its own fishermen from Philippines harassment.


you talk as china can =))


----------



## WuMaoCleverbot

China is a voracious fishing nation...same with Taiwan. They don't care if many species go extinct. I hope the Philippine gov't would act tough and not release these Chinese fishermen/thieves.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Soryu

Situation is very danger in SCS, PRC should retreat their rig from Vietnamese EEZ.
Both countries don't want a war!
Same with Philippines case

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## VietHome

> *Chinese ships have intentionally crashed into Vietnamese vessels over the last few days when the latter are seeking to prevent a large oil rig from being set up by China in Vietnamese waters in the East Sea, according to Vietnamese officials.*
> 
> Rear Admiral Ngo Ngoc Thu, vice commander of Vietnam's coast guard, told the conference on Wednesday that as _many as 80 vessels, including seven military ships_, have been deployed by the Chinese to guard its oil rig.
> 
> Thu said the Chinese vessels have repeatedly smashed into Vietnamese ships, causing large-scale damage, and even blasting the vessels with water cannons since the weekend.
> 
> Vietnamese officials told foreign reporters at the conference that six Vietnamese people have been injured so far during the confrontations but there has been no death.
> 
> A representative of the Vietnamese side said that _Vietnam did not deploy any military vessel to the scene._
> 
> According to Thu, Chinese ship number 3411 purposefully smashed into Vietnamese boat number CSB8003 on May 7.
> 
> The Chinese side also deployed aircraft number 8321 to fly over the CSB8003 to threaten the Vietnamese in their own waters.
> 
> At 8:30 am on May 4, Chinese boat number 44103 intentionally crashed into the back of Vietnamese coast guard boat number CSB2012.
> 
> At 8:10 am on May 3, Chinese ship number 44044 running at high speed slammed into the right side of Vietnamese coast guard boat number CSB4033 at a location about ten nautical miles away from the oil rig.
> 
> Though the 4033 vessel tried to avoid the hit, all of its glass windows were broken eventually.
> 
> The vice commander said eight Vietnamese boats in total have been hit, run into, pushed and blasted with water cannons by/from the Chinese boats during the past few days.
> 
> At today’s conference, the rear admiral also showed footage provided by the Vietnamese fisheries surveillance force of a Vietnamese boat being besieged by five Chinese ships during a clash.
> 
> *China illegally deployed oil rig to Vietnam’s waters *
> 
> On May 3, the Chinese Maritime Safety Administration released a maritime warning on its website, saying that China’s oil rig HD 981 began operating in a location of 15°29’58’’ North latitude and 111°12’06’’ East longitude in the East Sea on May 2 and will continue to operate until August 15, said Vietnamese Ministry of Foreign Affairs spokesperson Le Hai Binh.
> 
> In the warning, the Chinese Maritime Safety Administration also bans all vessels from entering the area where the rig is operating within a radius of three nautical miles.
> 
> The announced location of the drilling rig is totally within the exclusive economic zone and continental shelf of Vietnam, about 119 nautical miles (221 km) from Ly Son Island off the central Vietnamese province of Quang Ngai and 18 nautical miles south of Tri Ton Island of Vietnam’s Hoang Sa (Paracel) archipelago, the spokesman said.
> 
> Vietnamese Deputy Prime Minister Pham Binh Minh issued a demand that China move its oil rig and escort vessels from Vietnamese waters in the East Sea immediately during a phone call with the Chinese State Councillor Yang Jiechi on the afternoon of May 6.
> 
> “Vietnam cannot accept and resolutely opposes China’s act, and demands that China move the drilling rig and escort vessels out of the area before holding talks to resolve differences around the issue,” Minh said.
> 
> In yesterday’s talks, Deputy PM Minh, who is also the Vietnamese Foreign Minister, stressed that China’s unilateral bringing of the rig and a large number of vessels, including military ships, to the above location is illegal and against international law and practice.
> 
> This act by China has seriously violated Vietnam’s sovereignty over the Hoang Sa (Paracel) archipelago and its sovereign right and jurisdiction over the Southeast Asian country’s exclusive economic zone and continental shelf, Minh said, adding that the act also hurts the Vietnamese people.
> 
> Vietnam has full legal and historical evidence to prove its sovereignty over the Hoang Sa and Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelagos and the sovereign right and jurisdiction over the country’s exclusive economic zone and continental shelf in accordance with regulations in the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), the Vietnamese official said.
> 
> Vietnam will take all proper and necessary measures to protect its legitimate rights and interests, while at the same time showing goodwill to solve differences satisfactorily through negotiations, dialogues and other peaceful measures pursuant to the common perceptions of the two countries’ high-ranking leaders, Deputy PM Minh said.
> 
> Vietnam always observes the agreement on fundamental principles guiding the settlement of issues at sea in line with international law and regulations, particularly the UNCLOS, preventing the above issue from harming the political trust and cooperation between Vietnam and China.
> 
> On May 4, the Vietnamese Ministry of Foreign Affairs issued a ministerial diplomatic note to the Chinese Foreign Ministry, affirming that the activities of China’s drilling rig and vessels “have seriously infringed Vietnam’s sovereignty, sovereign right and jurisdiction over the country’s Hoang Sa archipelago, exclusive economic zone and continental shelf.”
> 
> In the note, the Vietnamese Ministry of Foreign Affairs demanded that China remove the drilling rig, vessels, equipment and personnel Vietnam’s continental shelf immediately and not repeat similar actions in the future.
> 
> Vietnam highly values its friendship, cooperation and comprehensive strategic partnership with China and is therefore willing to settle all the disputes and differences at sea between the two countries through bilateral negotiation mechanisms based on international law, the UNCLOS, and the agreement on the fundamental principles for settling issues at sea between Vietnam and China, the note said.



Chinese vessels deliberately ram Vietnam's ships in Vietnamese waters: officials


----------



## VietHome

This is getting dangerous. The aggressors are big, numerous, and ready to play rough.


----------



## WuMaoCleverbot

*Beijing tells PH to free Chinese fishers arrested for poaching off Palawan, return boat*
By: *Reuters*
May 7, 2014 2:03 PM

MANILA - (UPDATE3 - 6:36 p.m.) *The Philippines' Department of Foreign Affairs signalled Wednesday it was not heeding an appeal by China's foreign ministry to hand back a Chinese fishing boat and its crew seized by Philippines police for poaching in disputed waters in the South China Sea.*

The Philippines should stop taking provocative actions, ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying told a daily news briefing.

The DFA in Manila defended the acts of the officials who apprehended the crew and seized the boat and the marine shipment, adding in a statement that Philippine authorities in Palawan “will address this case in a just, humane and expeditious manner.”

The DFA stressed that the “*seizing of the Chinese fishing boat, carrying large numbers of endangered species, and the apprehension of its crew by the Philippine National Police Maritime Group Special Boat Unit were undertaken as actions to enforce maritime laws and to uphold Philippine sovereign rights over its EEZ.”*

Maritime police arrested a Chinese fishing boat with 11 crewmen and a haul of about 500 turtles off a disputed shoal in the Spratly Islands but within the Philippines' exclusive economic zone, a senior official said on Wednesday.

The Chinese fishing boat was intercepted off Half Moon Shoal on Tuesday, said Chief Superintendent Noel Vargas, head of the Philippine National Police maritime group.

"The fishing boat is now being towed to Palawan where appropriate charges will be filed against them," Vargas said.

*The shoal is some 100 kilometers from southwestern Palawan.*


Beijing tells PH to free Chinese fishers arrested for poaching off Palawan, return boat


----------



## sweetgrape

Rechoice said:


> we will do every thing which should have to do to protect ourselves.


Everything? scare me? not only you can do every thing when you pretect yourself.
The rig is there, I am also very interesting on what's everthing you will do, don't disappoint me, vietcong!




Soryu said:


> Situation is very danger in SCS, PRC should retreat their rig from Vietnamese EEZ.
> Both countries don't want a war!
> Same with Philippines case


All is Chinese fault, you and Philippines are both right, just because you are small, China is much big, right?
Chinese government do shit, they should do more, they are too soft.


----------



## DT1010

hey bro, page not found


*PAGE NOT FOUND*​


----------



## cnleio

Surrender, China sent *80x ships* around water of drilling rig. Vietnam no any chance.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## VietHome

DT1010 said:


> hey bro, page not found
> 
> 
> *PAGE NOT FOUND*​


It was took down for edit, interesting. It's up again now. The link is the same.


----------



## sweetgrape

ViXuyen said:


> Monkeys are ancestors of chinaman


You Vietnamese are our ancestors of Chinese? kidding me?


----------



## GeHAC

cnleio said:


> Surrender, China sent *80x ships* around water of drilling rig. Vietnam no any chance.



Viet ships entered our restricted navigation zone first.They deserves that.I hope they are fool enough to pull the trigger first


----------



## VietHome

cnleio said:


> Surrender, China sent *80x ships* around water of drilling rig. Vietnam no any chance.


You forgot they also sent 7 warships. This is a clear sign of military escalation, a dangerous and reckless move right after Vietnam had helped looking for MH370 and Vietnamese border guards had died fighting Uighur elements for China.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## BoQ77

cnleio said:


> Surrender, China sent *80x ships* around water of drilling rig. Vietnam no any chance.



China would withdraw within 1 week

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cnleio

GeHAC said:


> Viet ships entered our restricted navigation zone first.They deserves that.I hope they are fool enough to pull the trigger first


They should return, according to media reported right now China has 80x ships there. The numbers much more than Vietnam ships.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## sweetgrape

VietHome said:


> You forgot they also sent 7 warships. This is a clear sign of military escalation, a dangerous and reckless move right after Vietnam had helped looking for MH370 and Vietnamese border guards had died fighting Uighur elements for China.


 We had helped you fighting USA, and sent you more than worth billion material and weapon to you, and sent our soldiers and general there to help, many soldiers died, but now you occupied our land, you just remember the help that you give to other, but forget the help that other gave to you, right?!
ungrateful Vietnamese!


----------



## Viet

cnleio said:


> They should return, according to media reported right now China has 80x ships there. The numbers much more than Vietnam ships.


return is out of question.
I think it is now time to send our warships, e.i. Molyina.

each Molyina carries 16 uran missiles. enough to turn your ships into wrecks...good for fish haven.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## bolo

sweetgrape said:


> We had helped you fighting USA, and sent you more than worth billion material and weapon to you, and sent our soldiers and general there to help, many soldiers died, but now you occupied our land, you just remember the help that you give to other, but forget the help that other gave to you, right?!
> ungrateful Vietnamese!


 
China learned a valuable lesson. There are no such thing as eternal friendship with any country. Enemy now, strategic partner tomorow.



Viet said:


> return is out of question.
> I think it is now time to send our warships, e.i. Molyina.
> 
> each Molyina carries 16 uran missiles. enough to turn your ships into wrecks...good for fish haven.


 
Will you join the Vietnam navy and fight China?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## sweetgrape

Viet said:


> return is out of question.
> I think it is now time to send our warships, e.i. Molyina.
> 
> each Molyina carries 16 uran missiles. enough to turn your ships into wrecks...good for fish haven.


Molyina? what's that shit? woo, scare us, that's "powerful", can't wait for seeing it "turn chinese ships into wrecks", hehe!


----------



## Viet

GeHAC said:


> Viet ships entered our restricted navigation zone first.They deserves that.I hope they are fool enough to pull the trigger first


restricted zone, my a$$.
that is our EEZ water.

if we shoot, 100 missiles would fly in one go.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## VietHome

sweetgrape said:


> We had helped you fighting USA, and sent you more than worth billion material and weapon to you, and sent our soldiers and general there to help, many soldiers died, but now you occupied our land, you just remember the help that you give to other, but forget the help that other gave to you, right?!
> ungrateful Vietnamese!


200k of your troops also attacked Vietnam in 1979. You supported the Khmer Rouge to attack Vietnam while massacring their own people. You put pressure on us to not untied our country so that we are just like another North Korea, becoming your puppet. You took the Hoang Sa away from us during our civil war. You massacred our people at Gac Ma in the 1980x and you have continued your aggressive actions on us year after year until now.

Your country is a big bully. You attacked the Philippines when they were weak. Now after the US President just pledged support to the Philippines, you turned your claws on us while we are helping you on various issues.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## sweetgrape

Viet said:


> restricted zone, my a$$.
> that is our EEZ water.
> 
> if we shoot, 100 missiles would fly in one go.


Your EEZ, My a$$

How many missiles do you want fly over your head? give us the number, don't worry the quantity, we have encough missiles!



VietHome said:


> 200k of your troops also attacked Vietnam in 1979. You supported the Khmer Rouge to attack Vietnam while massacring their own people. You put pressure on us to not untied our country so that we are just like another North Korea, becoming your puppet. You took the Hoang Sa away from us during our civil war. You massacred our people at Gac Ma in the 1980x and you have continued your aggressive actions on us year after year until now.
> 
> Your country is a big bully. You attacked the Philippines when they were weak. Now after the US President just pledged support to the Philippines, you turned your claws on us while we are helping you on various issues.


Yes, you are ungratefull vietnamese, from you comment, I have know you forget the help we giave to you, but here criticise, slander us, we sent milliton ton material and weapon, also thousand solderis to help you just for stop you unifing your country? ridiculous, and emblish the invasion you did on other country, don't think other are stupid don't know you real motive.

Still that word, all are chinese fault, just because chinese is much bigger than you such kind of ungratefull country.


----------



## Rechoice

sweetgrape said:


> Everything? scare me? not only you can do every thing when you pretect yourself.
> The rig is there, I am also very interesting on what's everthing you will do, don't disappoint me, vietcong!



No, chinaman,

just look at yourselves, you were bullied by white men like kid in the past. But you learnt nothing to be ordinary human being. China is big boy but bad boy.

China have to move this toy away from our EZZ

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Viet

sweetgrape said:


> Molyina? what's that shit? woo, scare us, that's "powerful", can't wait for seeing it "turn chinese ships into wrecks", hehe!


here is it: guided missile corvette Molniya















bolo said:


> China learned a valuable lesson. There are no such thing as eternal friendship with any country. Enemy now, strategic partner tomorow.
> 
> Will you join the Vietnam navy and fight China?


yes, of course. every Viet is a patriot.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Rechoice

sweetgrape said:


> Your EEZ, My a$$
> 
> How many missiles do you want fly over your head? give us the number, don't worry the quantity, we have encough missiles!



such fake toys will fell down on your head.


----------



## Edison Chen

Things are getting creepy now


----------



## sweetgrape

Rechoice said:


> such fake toys will fell down on your head.


congratulation, you mouth become invinsible like indian mouth.


----------



## GeHAC

sweetgrape said:


> Molyina? what's that shit? woo, scare us, that's "powerful", can't wait for seeing it "turn chinese ships into wrecks", hehe!



I guess he is talking about the export version of 12418 with SS-N-25.Those ships actually is a threat to our navy 10years ago.Those ship have no chance to survive under our naval aviation force.That's why we stop the construction of 022s,022 is a painful lesson to our navy development


----------



## sweetgrape

Rechoice said:


> No, chinaman,
> 
> just look at yourselves, you were bullied by white men like kid in the past. But you learnt nothing to be ordinary human being. China is big boy but bad boy.
> 
> China have to move this toy away from our EZZ


Hehe.


----------



## Rechoice

sweetgrape said:


> Hehe.


----------



## sweetgrape

GeHAC said:


> I guess he is talking about the export version of 12418 with SS-N-25.Those ships actually is a threat to our navy 10years ago.Those ship have no chance to survive under our naval aviation force.That's why we stop the construction of 022s,022 is a painful lesson to our navy development


Hehe, his comment let me think of at the end of 1990s, we were talking about how J8 deal with F22.


----------



## GeHAC

cnleio said:


> They should return, according to media reported right now China has 80x ships there. The numbers much more than Vietnam ships.


Our Coast Guards are extending the restricted navigation zone，it's time to sweep them outBoring to see more viets renting here


----------



## VietHome

People should understand why PRC chose this time to make a move. The US, EU and Russia are in locked position over Ukraine. So while the US has pledged to protect the Philippines and Japan, it is not likely to get involve in a non-allied country like Vietnam. 

PRC is also in a strong position to bully Malaysia over MH370. Thailand is in turmoil. Thus, ASEAN countries are weaken and fractured thanks to China's hold on Cambodia. Russia, a long time partner of Vietnam is also unlikely to help due to being busy fighting with the US while having to get closer with China.

Vietnam has always been a stronger military in the region and is in direct confrontation with PRC in the SCS. Thus, PRC's effort in the past has been to bully the Philippines. But after Ukraine, PRC determined that it's worth changing direction to attack Vietnam now. This time, we have to rely on our own strength and sacrifice to repel the aggressors. Ironically enough, it happened when we are celebrating 60 year Victory at Dien Bien Phu. It's a painful reminder that Vietnam has always been a target of big nations so we must be vigilant.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

sweetgrape said:


> congratulation, you mouth become invinsible like indian mouth.



is your mouth like a hole ?


----------



## bolo

Viet said:


> yes, of course. every Viet is a patriot.


 
Than you should be training, why are you here?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cnleio

Ships came from China and Vietnam, playing water war around drilling rig.
Members in PDF, playing words war here.


----------



## itaskol

we should sink all viet ships there


----------



## Viet

Vietnam informs the word press of Chinese provocation.

80 Chinese vessels including patrol boats and warships, with Chinese aircrafts flying over the zone.
Chinese vessels intentionally collided Vietnamese vessels, injuring many Vietnamese crew members.


----------



## Beast

VietHome said:


> People should understand why PRC chose this time to make a move. The US, EU and Russia are in locked position over Ukraine. So while the US has pledged to protect the Philippines and Japan, it is not likely to get involve in a non-allied country like Vietnam.
> 
> PRC is also in a strong position to bully Malaysia over MH370. Thailand is in turmoil. Thus, ASEAN countries are weaken and fractured thanks to China's hold on Cambodia. Russia, a long time partner of Vietnam is also unlikely to help due to being busy fighting with the US while having to get closer with China.
> 
> Vietnam has always been a stronger military in the region and is in direct confrontation with PRC in the SCS. Thus, PRC's effort in the past has been to bully the Philippines. But after Ukraine, PRC determined that it's worth changing direction to attack Vietnam now. This time, we have to rely on our own strength and sacrifice to repel the aggressors. Ironically enough, it happened when we are celebrating 60 year Victory at Dien Bien Phu. It's a painful reminder that Vietnam has always been a target of big nations so we must be vigilant.


 Vietnam shall just back off and say i am sorry. You are egg. China is a stone. Never fight with a stone if you are a egg.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cnleio

itaskol said:


> we should sink all viet ships there


For Vietnam, this's game is hard to play coz few Vietnam ships vs 80x China ships, and most r 1000-3000ton bigger than their fishing boat. Vietnam ship won't get any benefit to hit China ships.

*80x ships *like this size, how to play game ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## CN.Black

sincity said:


> already told you don't alert with your comment on this topic.


None of your business.It is my FREEDOM and my RIGHT.You American guys should shut up.This is a problem between China and Vietnam.


----------



## Viet

it seems that the Chinese had probably planned this action months ago.
dispatching of warships and fighter jets into Vietnam water is really provocative and risks a war.


----------



## DT1010

29 vs 80 today, interesting! let's wait for tomorrow, it's our backyard, more ship will come


----------



## Viet

bolo said:


> Than you should be training, why are you here?


my father served in the navy. I would be glad if I could join.



Beast said:


> Vietnam shall just back off and say i am sorry. You are egg. China is a stone. Never fight with a stone if you are a egg.


history shows we never gave up, even facing superior enemies.
why should we do this time?

the vice commander of Vietnam's coast guard says:

"Our maritime police and fishing protection forces have practiced extreme restraint, we will continue to hold on there," 
"But if (the Chinese ships) continue to ram into us, we will respond with similar self-defense."


----------



## cnleio

Viet said:


> it seems that the Chinese had probably planned this action months ago.
> dispatching of warships and fighter jets into Vietnam water is really provocative and risks a war.


@Viet Do u remember, that HD981 drilling rig i ever discussed with u in 2012, about a thread to introduce the biggest drilling rig made in China. In that time i thought it would deploy in SCS but u corrected me 2012 HD981 was deployed near HongKong waters. 2014 May it really moved to SCS.

Do u remember it ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## eazzy

Which navy ? 

BBC News - A US soldier searches for his Vietnamese son


----------



## cirr

DT1010 said:


> 29 vs 80 today, interesting! let's wait for tomorrow, it's our backyard, more ship will come



China plans to commit 500 ships to the “game”。

That does not include thousands of 500-700 tonne steel fishing vessels that are on standby to join the melee。


----------



## ViXuyen

Latest news is Vietnam has deployed 69 ships to this area and the military is on high alert for possible war


----------



## cirr

ViXuyen said:


> Latest news is Vietnam has deployed 69 ships to this area and the military is on high alert for possible war



China can't wait for Vietnam to fire the first shot。

60 Type 022 missile vessels are all that PLAN needs to send the entire VNS to the bottom of the SCS。


----------



## GeHAC

VietHome said:


> People should understand why PRC chose this time to make a move. The US, EU and Russia are in locked position over Ukraine. So while the US has pledged to protect the Philippines and Japan, it is not likely to get involve in a non-allied country like Vietnam.
> 
> PRC is also in a strong position to bully Malaysia over MH370. Thailand is in turmoil. Thus, ASEAN countries are weaken and fractured thanks to China's hold on Cambodia. Russia, a long time partner of Vietnam is also unlikely to help due to being busy fighting with the US while having to get closer with China.
> 
> Vietnam has always been a stronger military in the region and is in direct confrontation with PRC in the SCS. Thus, PRC's effort in the past has been to bully the Philippines. But after Ukraine, PRC determined that it's worth changing direction to attack Vietnam now. This time, we have to rely on our own strength and sacrifice to repel the aggressors. Ironically enough, it happened when we are celebrating 60 year Victory at Dien Bien Phu. It's a painful reminder that Vietnam has always been a target of big nations so we must be vigilant.



Its interesting to hear a typical conspiracy theory from a vietnamese.First the coopeartion with vietnam on MH370 is absolutely a chance for both of us to improve the relationship.China is not that stupid to break this trend so soon.To make a reliable analysis of China,you should make it clear Vietnam is NOT the main threat to China.Actually china demend a peaceful SCS which is a common sence to all countries in this area because the only winner would be USA if the SCS fell into a war.
Vietnam will never be the target of a conspiracy because it is not the main coruse of this problem.Dont think Vietnam is a strong millitary in the region,your army is weak after the disarmament for the needs of economic development.China also has the tacit understanding so the army near our south border improve their equipment slowly.Dont try to refute because china had gone through a same period.Vietnam has many things to learn from china,there's no need for conflicts because we have many common interests.Vietnam should focus more on its nationalism trend which china does far better


----------



## cnleio




----------



## GeHAC

bolo said:


> Than you should be training, why are you here?


Keyboard Warrior


----------



## Viet

cnleio said:


> @Viet* Do u remember,* that HD981 drilling rig i ever discussed with u in 2012, about a thread to introduce the biggest drilling rig made in China. In that time i thought it would deploy in SCS but u corrected me 2012 HD981 was deployed near HongKong waters. 2014 May it really moved to SCS.
> 
> Do u remember it ?


YES, I remember.
You have planned this act since months, correct?

Vietnam is caught by surprise. clever move.


----------



## GeHAC

Viet said:


> it seems that the Chinese had probably planned this action months ago.
> dispatching of warships and fighter jets into Vietnam water is really provocative and risks a war.



China Coast Guard has the fast respond ability.Many ships were serving in the north no need for a plan.


----------



## ViXuyen

cirr said:


> China can't wait for Vietnam to fire the first shot。
> 
> 60 Type 022 missile vessels are all that PLAN needs to send the entire VNS to the bottom of the SCS。


 This event puts a smile on my face. It will make us add more "toys" to our military


----------



## Viet

cirr said:


> China can't wait for Vietnam to fire the first shot。
> 
> *60 Type 022 missile vessels* are all that PLAN needs to send the entire VNS to the bottom of the SCS。


it appears you are moving all vessels of the South fleet into the zone. Not bad.


----------



## ViXuyen

Viet said:


> YES, I remember.
> You have planned this act since months, correct?
> 
> *Vietnam is caught by surprise. clever move.[/*quote]
> Nope, this area is heavily monitored. We know it's coming.


----------



## GeHAC

cnleio said:


> For Vietnam, this's game is hard to play coz few Vietnam ships vs 80x China ships, and most r 1000-3000ton bigger than their fishing boat. Vietnam ship won't get any benefit to hit China ships.
> 
> *80x ships *like this size, how to play game ?



well,most ships involved were not that big...


----------



## cirr

cnleio said:


>



These are our 1000-tonne class vessels。

Perhaps we should consider sending some 3000-tonne、4000-tonne and 5000-tonne ships？

They are big enough for our people to have picnic on the rear deck while playing the cat and mouse game with our Vietnamese friends。


----------



## Viet

cirr said:


> China plans to commit 500 ships to the “game”。
> 
> That does not include thousands of 500-700 tonne steel fishing vessels that are on standby to join the melee。


500? respect.

any source?



GeHAC said:


> Keyboard Warrior


you too, I guess, unless you are from the army.


----------



## cnleio

Viet said:


> YES, I remember.
> You have planned this act since months, correct?
> 
> Vietnam is caught by surprise. clever move.


I mean, China built the beast (HD981) it's a self-propelled drilling rig. Even though we did use it in other place not in SCS, in the end HD981 still will appear in SCS it's just time problem. It's pity ur Vietnam ignore the beast existing in 2012, not prepare urself when one day to face it.

Anyway Chinese can build one HD981, later many coming ...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## GeHAC

ViXuyen said:


> This event puts a smile on my face. It will make us add more "toys" to our military


It's not wise to compete with our industry ability which will crash your economic.Say it again,no need for conflicts.Vietnam really like China 30 years ago,we know you better than you know yourself.


----------



## Edison Chen

cnleio said:


> I mean, China built the beast (HD981) it's a self-propelled drilling rig. Even though we did use it in other place not in SCS, in the end HD981 still will appear in SCS it's just time problem. It's pity ur Vietnam ignore the beast existing in 2012, not prepare urself when one day to face it.
> 
> Anyway Chinese can build one HD981, later many coming ...



So before HD981, China's drilling tech is not enough to exploit gas and oil under the deep sea in SCS?


----------



## GeHAC

Viet said:


> 500? respect.
> 
> any source?
> 
> 
> you too, I guess, unless you are from the army.



I dont deny that.Actually I dont want to see a war with no sence.


----------



## cnleio

Edison Chen said:


> So before HD981, China's drilling tech is not enough to exploit gas and oil under the deep sea in SCS?


YES ！！！ HD981 change the game ! Depond on HD981 and later other "made in China" drilling rigs, Chinese start to DIG OIL in SCS.

BTW HD981 is a self-propelled drilling rig, it can sail on the water.


----------



## ViXuyen

KAL-EL said:


> Serious question... How is Vietnam bullying China?


 Exactly, all you see is big Chinese ships firing water cannons and ramming on our smaller ships.


----------



## Edison Chen

cnleio said:


> YES ！！！ HD981 change the game ! Depond on HD981 and later other "made in China" drilling rigs, Chinese start to DIG OIL in SCS.



Good news! Another achievement! 30% of Vietnam GDP comes from the oil, now their economy will be even worse.


----------



## cnleio

Edison Chen said:


> So before HD981, China's drilling tech is not enough to exploit gas and oil under the deep sea in SCS?


I have told others never look down upon China, the "Made in China" HD981 will lead Chinese into the oil in SCS.
Chinese can build many HD981 self-propelled drilling rigs in SCS.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## DT1010

Edison Chen said:


> Good news! Another achievement! 30% of Vietnam GDP comes from the oil, now their economy will be even worse.


i think you should make an research before discussing


----------



## j20blackdragon



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

HANOI, Vietnam — Chinese ships are ramming and spraying water cannons at Vietnamese vessels trying to stop Beijing from setting up an oil rig in the South China Sea, according to Vietnamese officials and video evidence Wednesday, a dangerous escalation of tensions in disputed waters considered a global flashpoint.

*With neither side showing any sign of stepping down, the standoff raises the possibility that more serious clashes could break out. Vietnam said several boats have been damaged and six people on the vessels have been injured by broken glass.
*
Vietnam, which has no hope of standing up to China militarily, said it wants a peaceful solution and — unlike China — hadn’t sent any navy ships to areas close to the $1 billion deep sea rig. But a top official warned that “all restraint had a limit.”

“Our maritime police and fishing protection forces have practised extreme restraint, we will continue to hold on there,” Ngo Ngoc Thu, vice commander of Vietnam’s coast guard, told a specially arranged news conference in Hanoi. “But if [the Chinese ships] continue to ram into us, we will respond with similar self-defence.”

The disruptive activities by the Vietnamese side are in violation of China’s sovereign rights

China’s stationing of the oil rig, which was accompanied by a flotilla of military and civilian ships, on May 1 has been seen as one of its most provocative steps in a gradual campaign of asserting its sovereignty in the South China Sea, parts of which are also claimed by Vietnam, the Philippines and other Southeast Asian nations.

Vietnam immediately dispatched marine police and fishery protection vessels to the area, but they were harassed as they approached, Thu said.

Chinese ships intentionally ramming Vietnamese vessels in battle over ocean oil rig | National Post

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Edison Chen

DT1010 said:


> i think you should make an research before discussing



Whose smurf is this? So many "new" Viet members show up today.


----------



## Beast

US will criticise but do nothing. Georgia and Ukraine are great example!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

that is a wakeup call for the government of Vietnam.
they wrongly assumed they could talk and negotiate with their comrades in China.

in reality, China was and is the arch-enemy of Vietnam, regardless of imperial or commie.

time to make alliance with a great military power and accelerate the modernization of the army.


----------



## third eye

China bristles at pushback from Vietnam, Philippines in disputed waters - CSMonitor.com






_A Chinese ship (l.) shoots water cannon at a Vietnamese vessel (r.) while a Chinese Coast Guard ship (c.) sails alongside in the South China Sea, off Vietnam's coast, Wednesday, May 7, 2014._

Tension flared Wednesday between China and two of its neighbors in the waters of the disputed South China Sea.

In the eastern part of the sea, China demanded that the Philippines release a Chinese fishing boat and its crew that it seized on Tuesday off the Spratly Islands.

Further west, dozens of patrol boats and naval and coast guard vessels from China and Vietnam gathered around the site of a Chinese oil rig that was moved this weekend into waters that Hanoi claims as its territory, Reuters reports.

Both incidents underscore the fragility in the region as China asserts its claims to wide swaths of the South China Sea, while its smaller neighbors, who also claim islands in the same waters, push back.

Although there are frequent flare-ups between fishermen from the region's littoral countries, the “actual detention of Chinese fishermen or the seizure of a boat is rare,” writes Reuters. 

The Chinese fishing boat and its 11-person crew was seized at 7 a.m. Tuesday by a maritime police patrol, according to Chief Superintendent Noel Vargas of the Philippine National Police Maritime Group.

The Philippines is a US military ally: When President Obama visited last week, the two countries agreed to boost their military cooperation going forward, a move widely seen as a response to China's growing assertiveness. 

*The boat was carrying about 350 turtles, some of which are protected under Philippine law, and was seized at the same time as a Philippine boat and crew with 70 turtles on board, Mr. Vargas said. Both boats are being taken to the Philippine island of Palawan, where charges will be filed against them.*

The Chinese Foreign Ministry said Wednesday that the Philippines must “immediately” release the detained fisherman and “take no more provocative action,” according to the state-run Xinhua news agency.

Xinhua described the seizure of the ship as one where “several armed men forced themselves onto the boat and fired four or five shots in the air.” 

In Vietnam, boats from the two neighboring powers faced off near the site of a Chinese oil rig Wednesday, as Hanoi attempted to prevent China from placing its rig in an area of water claimed by both countries, the Associated Press reports. 

No shots have been fired, a Vietnamese government official told the AP. Two foreign diplomats, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, said Vietnam had sent up to 29 armed naval and coast guard boats to the area as a “show of force” to urge Beijing to withdraw the rig. 

Beijing moved the deep-sea oil rig, owned by China National Offshore Oil Corp. (CNOOC), a state-owned company, to a location close to the Paracel Islands on May 2. The oil rig was escorted by a “large flotilla of naval vessels,” according to the AP; Beijing “announced that no foreign ships would be allowed within a 3-mile radius of the $1 billion rig.” 

The oil rig’s location is 120 nautical miles off of Vietnam’s coast and within the 200-nautical mile exclusive economic zone that Vietnam claims under the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea. 

“Vietnam will take all the proper and necessary measure to protect its legitimate rights and interests,” Vietnamese Foreign Minister Pham Binh Minh said Wednesday, according to the Vietnam's Than Nien newspaper. Vietnam calls the Chinese move illegal and a violation of Vietnamese sovereignty. It has sought diplomatic talks with China to resolve the situation.

An unnamed Chinese oil industry official told Reuters that the decision to move the rig looked like a political rather than a commercial decision:

"This reflected the will of the central government and is also related to the U.S. strategy on Asia," said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue.

"It is not commercially driven. It is also not like CNOOC has set a big exploration blueprint for the region."

The US State Department weighed in on the tensions on Tuesday. Spokeswoman Jen Psaki called China’s “decision to operate its oil rig in disputed waters [...] provocative and unhelpful to the maintenance of peace and stability in the region.” 

Vietnam and China have clashed seriously in the South China Sea at least three other times in the past 40 years, AP notes:

China occupied the Paracel Islands 40 years ago, and 74 U.S.-backed South Vietnamese forces died in a subsequent military clash. The Vietnamese and Chinese navies clashed again in 1988 in the disputed Spratly Islands, leaving 64 Vietnamese sailors dead.

In 1992, China awarded a contract to U.S. energy company Crestone to explore for oil and gas in the Spratly Islands. Vietnam protested the move. Two years later, Vietnam’s navy forced the company’s oil rigs to leave the area

And the Philippines in particular has taken a strong stand against Chinese territorial claims. In March, Manila lodged a legal case with the United Nations that challenges Beijing’s claims in the South China Sea, as The Christian Science Monitor reported: 

Beijing immediately dismissed the move, saying it would refuse to take part in any arbitration by the International Tribunal on the Law of the Sea.

Manila’s decision to lodge nearly 4,000 pages of legal testimony with the tribunal in Hamburg “is about defending what is legitimately ours,” Philippines Foreign Secretary Albert del Rosario told reporters in Manila on Sunday.

The Philippines has been the most outspoken of the Southeast Asian nations that have competing claims with China in the South China Sea. Beijing lays claim to more than 80 percent of the sea, thought to be rich in oil and gas, within nine dotted lines shown on a Chinese map drawn up in the 1940s.

Within that tongue-shaped area lie reefs and shoals more than 1,000 miles from China’s shoreline.​

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Speeder 2

I disagree with this approach. 

I would for now negotiate with Vietnam on this issue to force an agreement.

meanwhile I would concentrate hitting Philippine, and hit it hard: take back ALL the islets they control at one go! Then shift Su-30s /J-16s and some J-7A/ Anti-sub aircrafts to one of these islets with a existing runway/s to control the SCS. 

The US won't dare fight China in SCS ( or anywhere for that matter. the US is a country who only can scare and bully the weak). Don't believe a sec of its empty posures.

In this way China will get into a very proactive position burying the entire "Asia Pivot" before it really starts.

China needs a "stick" in SCS urgently to rasie its voice that it means seriously not only with carrots. Philippine is the ideal target.

In sum, make a peace with Vietnam and slam hard & fast on Philippine is the best way I see going forward.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

fighter jets are receiving fuel. thing is getting fcking serious.







more Vietnamese vessels on the way


----------



## cnleio

If in Cold War, Vietnam might get many benefits from Uncle SAM to against the Evil Red. But today world has changed, the relationship between U.S and China is complex, they need each other in economy field also rivals in Diplomacy, The biggest problem is Uncle SAM not as rich as in 1990s, American can not help Vietnam but u can find Japanese .

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Edison Chen

Viet said:


> fighter jets are receiving fuel. thing is getting fcking serious.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> more Vietnamese vessels on the way



It's not serious, it's exciting and interesting.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cnleio

Viet said:


> fighter jets are receiving fuel. thing is getting fcking serious.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> more Vietnamese vessels on the way


Relax, buddy.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

Ka28 helicopter on the way to the zone (this baby is equipped with radar used to guide antiship missiles launched by warships).


----------



## GeHAC

cnleio said:


> Relax, buddy.


It's interesting to see those Vietnamese going mad.
Though not looking forward to see a war,but I hope the Naval Aviation Force is lock and loaded.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Beast

You see its all the while the viet sending warplane and military helo while China has only civilian coast guard.

One moment, the viet claimed they are the victim. China the aggressor but they are the one sending military fighter jet and helicopter intimidating others..

So who is the aggressor and who is the victim? I think the whole world shall know.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Viet

Edison Chen said:


> It's not serious, it's exciting and interesting.


you are joking. 

if you haven´t noticed you are sending warships and fighter jets into our water. 

don´t you know you risk a war?

do you assume we will back off?


----------



## itaskol

Beast said:


> You see its all the while the viet sending warplane and military helo while China has only civilian coast guard.
> 
> One moment, the viet claimed they are the victim. China the aggressor but they are the one sending military fighter jet and helicopter intimidating others..
> 
> So who is the aggressor and who is the victim? I think the whole world shall know.



exactly right.

.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

Speeder 2 said:


> I disagree with this approach.
> 
> I would for now negotiate with Vietnam on this issue to force an agreement.
> 
> meanwhile I would concentrate hitting Philippine, and hit it hard: take back ALL the islets they control at one go! Then shift Su-30s /J-16s and some J-7A/ Anti-sub aircrafts to one of these islets with a existing runway/s to control the SCS.
> 
> The US won't dare fight China in SCS ( or anywhere for that matter. the US is a country who only can scare and bully the weak). Don't believe a sec of its empty posures.
> 
> In this way China will get into a very proactive position burying the entire "Asia Pivot" before it really starts.
> 
> China needs a "stick" in SCS urgently to rasie its voice that it means seriously not only with carrots. Philippine is the ideal target.
> 
> In sum, make a peace with Vietnam and slam hard & fast on Philippine is the best way I see going forward.


you are from Taiwan, I assume?

more reasonable than mainlanders


----------



## VietHome

Speeder 2 said:


> I disagree with this approach.
> 
> I would for now negotiate with Vietnam on this issue to force an agreement.
> 
> meanwhile I would concentrate hitting Philippine, and hit it hard: take back ALL the islets they control at one go! Then shift Su-30s /J-16s and some J-7A/ Anti-sub aircrafts to one of these islets with a existing runway/s to control the SCS.
> 
> The US won't dare fight China in SCS. Don't believe a sec of its posures.
> 
> In this way China will get into a very proactive position burying the entire "Asia Pivot" before it really starts.
> 
> China needs a "stick" in SCS urgently to rasie its voice that it means seriously not only with carrots. Philippine is the ideal target.
> 
> In sum, make a peace with Vietnam and slam hard & fast on Philippine is the best way I see going forward.


Your leadership has changed target by attacking Vietnam. This has erased any positive move that China made to improve relationship with Vietnam. You can't just stab "friends" in the back like this. No wonder China is viewed with suspicion around the world.



Beast said:


> You see its all the while the viet sending warplane and military helo while China has only civilian coast guard.
> 
> One moment, the viet claimed they are the victim. China the aggressor but they are the one sending military fighter jet and helicopter intimidating others..
> 
> So who is the aggressor and who is the victim? I think the whole world shall know.


Do you read newspaper? There are *Seven* China warships in the area. Vietnam has not sent one warship. All those pictures are taken at base on land.


----------



## itaskol

Viet said:


> you are joking.
> 
> if you haven´t noticed you are sending warships and fighter jets into our water.
> 
> don´t you know you risk a war?
> 
> do you assume we will back off?


Assume vietnam back off?
No. Everyone are hoping that vietnam firing the first bullet.


----------



## Beast

Viet said:


> you are joking.
> 
> if you haven´t noticed you are sending warships and fighter jets into our water.
> 
> don´t you know you risk a war?
> 
> do you assume we will back off?



Which PLAN warship and Which PLAAF fighter jet? I thought your comrade is now bragging about sending Ka-28 military helo and Su-22 bomber to intimidate China coastguard? No Chinese warship and fighter jet involved.



VietHome said:


> Do you read newspaper? There are *Seven* China warships in the area. Vietnam has not sent one warship. All those pictures are taken at base on land.



Propaganda and lies from VCP. Which newspaper? From Vietnam or US? Or Japanese? Or India?


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

Seems after Obama's recent visit, china knows that it cannot continue to touch US allies (Japan, Phil, Taiwan...) rightnow, so it turns to bully Vietnam...


----------



## Viet

Beast said:


> You see its all the while the viet sending warplane and military helo while China has only civilian coast guard.
> 
> One moment, the viet claimed they are the victim. China the aggressor but they are the one sending military fighter jet and helicopter intimidating others..
> 
> So who is the aggressor and who is the victim? I think the whole world shall know.


don´t you read the news? or at least the posts from your compariots here.

you are sending warships and fighter jets into Vietnamese water and airspace.


----------



## bolo

Beast said:


> You see its all the while the viet sending warplane and military helo while China has only civilian coast guard.
> 
> One moment, the viet claimed they are the victim. China the aggressor but they are the one sending military fighter jet and helicopter intimidating others..
> 
> So who is the aggressor and who is the victim? I think the whole world shall know.


 
Chinese should not care about whether they are victim or aggressor. At the end of the day, the world only remember the winner. That is life. Big fish always eat little fisth


----------



## Beast

bolo said:


> Chinese should not care about whether they are victim or aggressor. At the end of the day, the world only remember the winner. That is life. Big fish always eat little fisth



No, we must make a good story that its the vietnam aggressor attacking Chinese coastguard first before we send in missile, fighter jets to annihilate the whole VPN.


----------



## VietHome

itaskol said:


> Assume vietnam back off?
> No. Everyone are hoping that vietnam firing the first bullet.


Hey neighbor, don't come knock on our door and tell us to back off from our home. If you want to be a naked thief, at least act like one.


----------



## Beast

Viet said:


> don´t you read the news? or at least the posts from your compariots here.
> 
> you are sending warships and fighter jets into Vietnamese water and airspace.



Lie and another big lie. All I see is photo of your Ka-28 and Su-22 bomber ready to intimidate Chinese coastguard.

See this one?


----------



## cnleio

There'r no war only water war, trust me.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## GeHAC

Beast said:


> You see its all the while the viet sending warplane and military helo while China has only civilian coast guard.
> 
> One moment, the viet claimed they are the victim. China the aggressor but they are the one sending military fighter jet and helicopter intimidating others..
> 
> So who is the aggressor and who is the victim? I think the whole world shall know.



World opinion is shit.What ever we do,we are always the bad guy,dont give any expectations on that.


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

Seems after Obama's recent visit, china knows that it cannot continue to touch US allies (Japan, Phil, Taiwan...) rightnow, so it turns to bully Vietnam.
I think Vietnam should sue China to international courts due to this violation blatantly.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Reviewer21

I really don't think US will to do anything. From recent trends what i see US doing is lip service, nothing else. Instead VN should be self reliant and shouldn't depend or expect anything from US or other western countries. Good Luck VN

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## VietHome

bolo said:


> Chinese should not care about whether they are victim or aggressor. At the end of the day, the world only remember the winner. That is life. Big fish always eat little fisth


Yeah, acting like this guy is more appropriate. At least it can free yourself from thinking about bs reasons to justify your aggression like this one.



Beast said:


> No, we must make a good story that its the vietnam aggressor attacking Chinese coastguard first before we send in missile, fighter jets to annihilate the whole VPN.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Beast

Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> Seems after Obama's recent visit, china knows that it cannot continue to touch US allies (Japan, Phil, Taiwan...) rightnow, so it turns to bully Vietnam...



So sad to know the truth, right? So you shall just stop harassing 891 and let her drill the oil.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## GeHAC

cnleio said:


> There'r no war only water war, trust me.


yep,


----------



## VietHome

Beast said:


> Lie and another big lie. All I see is photo of your Ka-28 and Su-22 bomber ready to intimidate Chinese coastguard.


Everyone has the right to be ready. We are ready on our land while you sent warship into our sea. Get it?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## itaskol

Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> I think Vietnam should sue China to international courts due to this violation blatantly.


maybe it is a solution，you can try.good luck


----------



## Beast

VietHome said:


> Hey neighbor, don't come knock on our door and tell us to back off from our home. If you want to be a naked thief, at least act like one.



We will show you who is the boss.


VietHome said:


> Everyone has the right to be ready. We are ready on our land while you sent warship into our sea. Get it?



Aggressor and started twisting facts... You are the one sending military helo and fighter jets against China coastguard.

The world and China will teach the aggressor a lesson.


----------



## itaskol

cnleio said:


> There'r no war only water war, trust me.


I totaly agree.


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

Seems Uncle Sam caused the Chinese pissing theirs pants. They dont dare to bully Philippines more...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Beast

Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> Seems Uncle Sam caused the Chinese pissing theirs pants. They dont dare to bully Philippines more...



You shall more concern about Vietnam. I thought your troll company just brag about how Vietnam military will take over the whole world and is world miilitary superpower that can crushed China easily few days ago? 

Now you cried foul?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## itaskol

Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> Seems Uncle Sam caused the Chinese pissing theirs pants. They dont dare to bully Philippines more...


----------



## bolo

Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> Seems Uncle Sam caused the Chinese pissing theirs pants. They dont dare to bully Philippines more...


 I can assure you none of us are pissing in our pants. I use the appropriate facilities to relieve myself.


----------



## GeHAC

Beast said:


> You shall more concern about Vietnam. I thought your troll company just brag about how Vietnam military will take over the whole world and is world miilitary superpower that can crushed China easily few days ago?
> 
> Now you cried foul?



World 3rd strongest,lol


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

Reviewer21 said:


> I really don't think US will to do anything. From recent trends what i see US doing is lip service, nothing else. Instead VN should be self reliant and shouldn't depend or expect anything from US or other western countries. Good Luck VN



We know that, we are not stupid. VN is not an US ally. No need to be toooooo smart like you who can know that. Thanks.


----------



## Viet

Beast said:


> No, we must make a good story that its the vietnam aggressor attacking Chinese coastguard first before we send in missile, fighter jets to annihilate the whole VPN.


as usual, you are one of the chinese clowns.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## bolo

Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> Dont forget that we used to make your PLA knees....
> like this:


 
Anyone pointing a gun at you, you do what the guy say. Maybe Vietnamese are special or something that no bullet can their skin?


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

bolo said:


> Anyone pointing a gun at you, you do what the guy say. Maybe Vietnamese are special or something that no bullet can their skin?


He would not have to kneel if he did not invade VN... you understand?


----------



## eazzy

Damn I've never saw a thread last so long before the rape/prostitute thing comes up.


----------



## Raphael

> “But if [the Chinese ships] continue to ram into us, *we will respond with similar self-defence*.”



So they admitted that China is only practising self-defense. Either that, or even top Vietnamese government departments can't be allocated a budget for English lessons?

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Raphael

People should try to keep the discussion civil . They should know that taunting about rape is insulting to women's dignity and usually results in warnings.


----------



## S10

Now we just have to wait for Vietnam to fire the first shot, then we can engage in self defence to wipe out their navy and air force. Once that's done, we can starve their entire garrison in South China Sea to death by blockading their supply ships. This also works against Philippines.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

bolo said:


> You forgot your Vietnamese history? The French raped you guys until we taught you how to defeat them. Prior to that, China was raping you guys for 1000 years.



By your "Human Wave" tactic? Thank God, we did not learn your tactic, otherwise today we do not have the 60 years anniversary of Dien Bien Phu victory...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## S10

Rechoice said:


> No, chinaman,
> 
> just look at yourselves, you were bullied by white men like kid in the past. But you learnt nothing to be ordinary human being. China is big boy but bad boy.
> 
> China have to move this toy away from our EZZ


So if we were "bullied" by white men, and we ruled you for a thousand years, does that make you as low on the importance scale as insects? We're not moving our rig, so come and move it yourself. Meanwhile, we're going to piss all over your puny ships.


----------



## j20blackdragon

Viet said:


> the French raped you.
> so the British, the Japanese, the Manchus and the Mongols
> 
> they are smaller than you.
> 
> do I forget anyone?



All the 'small' countries you mentioned had a massive technological advantage for the given time period.

Britain and Japan were industrialized countries.

The Manchus and Mongols had a unique advantage in terms of cavalry -- i.e. horses.

What advantage does Vietnam have over China in 2014? Bananas?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## j20blackdragon

Viet said:


> oh...I forgot to add Germany and Portugal into the shame list of China. they raped China, too.
> 
> Congrat.
> 
> Vietnam? we kicked your *** at least 6 times in history: the Han, Yuan, Song, Ming, Qing and Deng.



Virtually all of the European countries industrialized before China did.

This is old news.

The year is now 2014.

I'm waiting for you to list out Vietnam's technological advantages over China...I'm waiting...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

j20blackdragon said:


> Virtually all of the European countries industrialized before China did.
> 
> This is old news.
> 
> The year is now 2014.
> 
> I'm waiting for you to list out Vietnam's technological advantages over China...I'm waiting...



You copy too well, no one can compare with China about copying. I do not see any your product that you do not copy....

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

eazzy said:


> ^ The more you are, the more will die when China cut water supplies.


a dream of a terrorist?

if you resort to such means, what differs you to the islamist terrorists in China?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## eazzy

They should mix that water with some stinky harmless chemical.


----------



## Soryu

CN.Black said:


> None of your business.It is my FREEDOM and my RIGHT.You American guys should shut up.This is a problem between China and Vietnam.


It's US style ...


----------



## Soryu

sweetgrape said:


> Everything? scare me? not only you can do every thing when you pretect yourself.
> The rig is there, I am also very interesting on what's everthing you will do, don't disappoint me, vietcong!
> 
> 
> 
> All is Chinese fault, you and Philippines are both right, just because you are small, China is much big, right?
> Chinese government do shit, they should do more, they are too soft.


1. We counter PRC ships out there with all our mighty as we can, Vietnamese soldier is brave men, we know that.
2. I never say anything like that, your fault is to make tension rise to a war when you drag your rig in our EEZ.
3. You do sh*t, you should do more than sit at before monitor and speak like a warrior ...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

Viet said:


> oh...I forgot to add Germany and Portugal into the shame list of China. they raped China, too.
> 
> Congrat.
> 
> Vietnam? we kicked your *** at least 6 times in history: the Han, Yuan, Song, Ming, Qing and Deng.



You still forget Russia. You can google "China - the cake of kings and emperors"...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## GR!FF!N

so,its already started.by the way,Good Job Philippines.Killing endangered species in large quantities,@$$fkuc those criminals.

on another development,Vietnamese and Chinese vessels clashed near Percels.

China clashes with Philippines, Vietnam in South China Sea - Los Angeles Times

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

Raphael said:


> Tensions surge in S. China Sea as Philippines seizes Chinese boat| Reuters
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've been waiting so long for this opportunity. Central govt. better not disappoint.



Oh, but rightnow they (your central govt) are still fear after Obama's visit to PH

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## bolo

Viet said:


> you are wrong.
> 
> we lost the first war against the French, because we followed chinese model. your warfare sucks. you can´t teach anyone on warfare.
> 
> Vietnam was a province of China. you can say the son of heaven ruled China and Vietnam.


 
And I'm supposed to take a word of an unknown/anonymous big mouth Viet kid over qualified world historians as the truth?


----------



## Globenim

I think China should start to build a 1-2 feet thick and 20-25 feet high reinforced concrete walls on the Northvietnamese borders. With 10 feet wide modular sections for quick repairs by occassional rocket and mortar attacks. Protective fence and barbed wire on both sides, street on the inside. And a wide ranged camera system to observe the border on top of regular patrols.

Walls are kind of out the this time. But so is the mentality of our enemy and the odds we face. This should make it easier to keep militants, elite mud apes and most importantly tenthousand of fleeing civilians away from China in case Vietnam ever goes nuts and escalates or directly starts a real war. Vietnamese beahavior is getting more aggressive and more unpredictable ever day.


----------



## bolo

Globenim said:


> I think China should start to build a 1-2 feet thick and 20-25 feet high reinforced concrete walls on the Northvietnamese borders.
> With 10 feet wide modular sections for quick repairs by occassional rocket and mortar attacks. Protective fence and barbed wire on both sides, street on the inside. And a wide ranged camera system to observe the border on top of regular patrols.
> 
> Walls are kind of out the this time. But so is the mentality of our enemy. This should make it easier to keep militants, elite mud apes, militans and most importantly tenthousand of fleeing civilians away from China in case Vietnam ever goes nuts and escalates or directly starts a real war. Vietnamese beahavior is getting more aggressive and more unpredictable ever day.


 nah, China can unleash th Uighurs on the Viets. Even a woman can take out a Viet soldier.


----------



## Globenim

bolo said:


> nah, China can unleash th Uighurs on the Viets. Even a woman can take out a Viet soldier.



Its not just a matter how to deal with Vietnamse. There is no question that military we can smash their faces no matter what delusions their forum warriors hold.

But this is the 21st century. Our economy is more important than smashing some Vietnamese. Modern day Chinese public feels their families and homes security is more important than punishing Vietnamese. Business prefers security. Investor prefer security. Cities close to the border will certainly care.

Just the very statement that "the borders are safe" gives a big security boost to civilians, business trust and feeling of security and help overcome fears of insecurity. It makes the war feel further away even if in todays wars that has not so much meaning. And a standing secured border that wont bow down a few little attacks can become a symbol that gives exactly those feeling. A standing massive wall can. A standing wire fence not so much.

And as said it keeps the border crossing in check. The wall is just an imagination thought a fantasy. But I think the Vietnamese borders deserves some attention in these time.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Viet

Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> You still forget *Russia*. You can google "China - the cake of kings and emperors"...


yes, you are right. how can I forget Russia. the master for all Chinese.

the Russians not only spanked the Chinese, but took a big chunk of the country.

What does our neighbor do? 
they continue seeking friendship, aka licking the boots of the Russians.

how low can a person sink?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

Raphael said:


> So they admitted that China is only practising self-defense. Either that, or even top Vietnamese government departments can't be allocated a budget for English lessons?


He spoke Vietnamese, not English. Or you're so dumb to understand that.


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

Viet said:


> ^ The more you are, the more will die when China cut water supplies.


Why the Chinese did not go there earlier than us (the islands), instead of seeking to to cut water today?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

Videos about confrontation between Vietnamese Maritime Police, Fishery Survey Department ships and Chinese ships at near Paracel ( 80 or 100nm from VN shore) on Vietnamese News:

Công bố hình ảnh tàu Trung Quốc tấn công tàu Việt Nam - VnExpress






We can see HD-981 and Chinese ships in clips:

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Raphael

The coordinates are 15°29'58"N 111°12'06"E:







As we can see, the oil rig isn't right next to Vietnam's coastline, but next to Paracels, which China began re-administering in 1974. So why is Vietnam raising a big tantrum over a 40 year-old fait accompli?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Raphael said:


> The coordinates are 15°29'58"N 111°12'06"E:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As we can see, the oil rig isn't right next to Vietnam's coastline, but next to Paracels, which China began re-administering in 1974. So why is Vietnam raising a big tantrum over a 40 year-old fait accompli?



They were looking for problems, meanwhile paint us as the aggressors.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## bolo

Raphael said:


> The coordinates are 15°29'58"N 111°12'06"E:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As we can see, the oil rig isn't right next to Vietnam's coastline, but next to Paracels, which China began re-administering in 1974. So why is Vietnam raising a big tantrum over a 40 year-old fait accompli?


 
Because Chinese discovered oil and greedy Vietnamese thieves tried to extort China hoping their white horse prince Sam will come and help them fight the Red Chinese Dragon.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

bolo said:


> Because Chinese discovered oil and greedy Vietnamese thieves tried to extort China hoping their white horse prince Sam will come and help them fight the Red Chinese Dragon.



Vietcong does understand that its survival depends on PRC.

However, now the entire Vietnam has been politically hijacked by the anti-China/pro-West ultra-nationalists. They are pushing their own government to provoke China, even we are drilling close to our own coast.

Vietcong is also afraid of those pro-West right-wing groups. If it wasn't the reason that Vietnam is still a socialist country, China would already have bombed them.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

You said many things confused yourself.

PRC attacked VN in 1974 to rob Paracel >>> so Chinese know there's oil, their greedy rise and attack Vietnamese.
If Vietnamese government is so afraid pro-Western people, so Vietnam should shake hand with China, hide the news that PRC drag oil rig, ignore eveything and keep living.

Best sh*t we ever heard from Chinese at western country:



> Vietcong does understand that its survival depends on PRC.
> 
> However, now the entire Vietnam has been politically hijacked by the anti-China/pro-West ultra-nationalists. They are pushing their own government to provoke China, even we are drilling close to our own coast.
> 
> Vietcong is also afraid of those pro-West right-wing groups. If it wasn't the reason that Vietnam is still a socialist country, China would already have bombed them.



Chinese mental is amazing me as always.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Soryu said:


> You said many things confused yourself.
> 
> PRC attacked VN in 1974 to rob Paracel >>> so Chinese know there's oil, their greedy rise and attack Vietnamese.
> *If Vietnamese government is so afraid pro-Western people, so Vietnam should shake hand with China, hide the news that PRC drag oil rig, ignore eveything and keep living.*
> 
> Best sh*t we ever heard from Chinese at western country:
> 
> 
> 
> Chinese mental is amazing me as always.



Your government always wants to close an eye on this and to maintain the status quo.

However, it is the pro-West media in Vietnam cooking up these tabloids, now they are hijacking the populism and forcing the Vietnamese government to confront against China.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Reviewer21

Why are you freaking out? I've just put my opinion. The same way you and other users do here. And neither was i targeting anyone. So please don't go all gung ho without understanding the POV of my post. Thank You!



Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> We know that, we are not stupid. VN is not an US ally. No need to be toooooo smart like you who can know that. Thanks.


----------



## Rechoice

S10 said:


> So if we were "bullied" by white men, and we ruled you for a thousand years, does that make you as low on the importance scale as insects? We're not moving our rig, so come and move it yourself. Meanwhile, we're going to piss all over your puny ships.



chinaman ruled by whiteman to 1997/1999.


----------



## Beast

You can see all the vietnam troll start insulting others when they known they cant beat China. Rest in peace vietnam.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## eazzy

Viet government is too weak, the most powerful entity is PetroViet. 

They should cut it into three to avoid being too influenced and forced to make this kind of stupid moves. Good for PetroViet but bad for Vietnam.


----------



## BoQ77

China really disturb their neighbors.

No one believe in their words of cooperation, or peaceful raise ...

They said that just for buying more time. Now it's time for them to ignore all

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Kyle Sun

Like a water park!!!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## sweetgrape

Soryu said:


> 1. We counter PRC ships out there with all our mighty as we can, Vietnamese soldier is brave men, we know that.
> 2. I never say anything like that, your fault is to make tension rise to a war when you drag your rig in our EEZ.
> 3. You do sh*t, you should do more than sit at before monitor and speak like a warrior ...



1. Brave? So what? only you are brave? you just can do as you can.
2. from your comments, can get it easily, your EEZ? sorry that's your business, we have confirm our zone, you are shit on it, why we must follow you? you get out of SCS we confirm, the tension will release quickly.
3. I work hard, pay tax, that's my do for my country, so what about you, shit? you can join the army, shoot chinese, idiot, hehe!


----------



## Soryu

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Your government always wants to close an eye on this and to maintain the status quo.
> 
> However, it is the pro-West media in Vietnam cooking up these tabloids, now they are hijacking the populism and forcing the Vietnamese government to confront against China.


Oh, really!???
But I see everything seem like ok with most people in Vietnam. Pro-Western is so small to do anything can forcing Viet Government do this or that.

Many people think PRC Government drag the rig to Vietnamese EEZ, make a tension show, to draw Chinese people out internal problems like instability and unrest terrorist action at recent time.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

sweetgrape said:


> 1. Brave? So what? only you are brave? you just can do as you can.
> 2. from your comments, can get it easily, your EEZ? sorry that's your business, we have confirm our zone, you are shit on it, why we must follow you? you get out of SCS we confirm, the tension will release quickly.
> 3. I work hard, pay tax, that's my do for my country, so what about you, shit? you can join the army, shoot chinese, idiot, hehe!


Yes, I understand your point of view, PRC always make that sense.
But many others said not.
Try to do bad things, you'll never get sweet-grape, instead, blood flowing out from your body.


----------



## BoQ77

Hey ... Chinese ships ramming Vietnamese authority ships and made damage Vietnamese in the Vietnam EEZ ... 
It cannot be right, it's totally wrong, China ...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

Kyle Sun said:


> Like a water park!!!



The operation of China warships and armed ships in Vietnam EEZ is wrong !!! Totally wrong ...
And those ships made hurt and damage against Vietnam authority ships ... it's terribly wrong ...

Chinese fishermen damaged environment by catching large quantity of turtles
cannot accept


----------



## eazzy

If its wrong then why don't respond ? I mean you won against the US right ? It should be easy.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

eazzy said:


> If its wrong then why don't respond ? I mean you won against the US right ? It should be easy.



What do you mean with "don't respond" ? Which way do you want us to respond ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## eazzy

A pinoy boat was also found carrying turtles at the same time, can you accept it ? Like you accept Pinoy presence in what you call your EEZ ?

It's just water, not bullets. Calm down...at least no one died...hopefully that will not change.


----------



## sweetgrape

Soryu said:


> Yes, I understand your point of view, PRC always make that sense.
> But many others said not.
> Try to do bad things, you'll never get sweet-grape, instead, blood flowing out from your body.


Many others? How many, more than 1.3 billion? 
We didn't do bad things, just do what we should and must do, protect our land, island, our benefit, that's all, don't scare me, you little vietnam, we will protect our land with our blood, you want try, do it!
your comments not like that a worrior do? you still that, like accuse others of criminal while you are criminal. As you said, what do you do for your country except just talk shit before the monitor? why you not join the army, but here talking shit here, idiot.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## BoQ77

We support the Phillipines catch


----------



## Kyle Sun

GR!FF!N said:


> so,its already started.by the way,Good Job Philippines.Killing endangered species in large quantities,@$$fkuc those criminals.
> 
> on another development,Vietnamese and Chinese vessels clashed near Percels.
> 
> China clashes with Philippines, Vietnam in South China Sea - Los Angeles Times


Talk your shit to Japanese.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## BoQ77

eazzy said:


> A pinoy boat was also found carrying turtles at the same time, can you accept it ? Like you accept Pinoy presence in what you call your EEZ ?
> 
> It's just water, not bullets. Calm down...at least no one died...hopefully that will not change.



We support arrest thiefs and environment killer, no matter what nationality they are


----------



## Beast

third eye said:


> China bristles at pushback from Vietnam, Philippines in disputed waters - CSMonitor.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _A Chinese ship (l.) shoots water cannon at a Vietnamese vessel (r.) while a Chinese Coast Guard ship (c.) sails alongside in the South China Sea, off Vietnam's coast, Wednesday, May 7, 2014._
> 
> Tension flared Wednesday between China and two of its neighbors in the waters of the disputed South China Sea.
> 
> In the eastern part of the sea, China demanded that the Philippines release a Chinese fishing boat and its crew that it seized on Tuesday off the Spratly Islands.
> 
> Further west, dozens of patrol boats and naval and coast guard vessels from China and Vietnam gathered around the site of a Chinese oil rig that was moved this weekend into waters that Hanoi claims as its territory, Reuters reports.
> 
> Both incidents underscore the fragility in the region as China asserts its claims to wide swaths of the South China Sea, while its smaller neighbors, who also claim islands in the same waters, push back.
> 
> Although there are frequent flare-ups between fishermen from the region's littoral countries, the “actual detention of Chinese fishermen or the seizure of a boat is rare,” writes Reuters.
> 
> The Chinese fishing boat and its 11-person crew was seized at 7 a.m. Tuesday by a maritime police patrol, according to Chief Superintendent Noel Vargas of the Philippine National Police Maritime Group.
> 
> The Philippines is a US military ally: When President Obama visited last week, the two countries agreed to boost their military cooperation going forward, a move widely seen as a response to China's growing assertiveness.
> 
> *The boat was carrying about 350 turtles, some of which are protected under Philippine law, and was seized at the same time as a Philippine boat and crew with 70 turtles on board, Mr. Vargas said. Both boats are being taken to the Philippine island of Palawan, where charges will be filed against them.*
> 
> The Chinese Foreign Ministry said Wednesday that the Philippines must “immediately” release the detained fisherman and “take no more provocative action,” according to the state-run Xinhua news agency.
> 
> Xinhua described the seizure of the ship as one where “several armed men forced themselves onto the boat and fired four or five shots in the air.”
> 
> In Vietnam, boats from the two neighboring powers faced off near the site of a Chinese oil rig Wednesday, as Hanoi attempted to prevent China from placing its rig in an area of water claimed by both countries, the Associated Press reports.
> 
> No shots have been fired, a Vietnamese government official told the AP. Two foreign diplomats, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, said Vietnam had sent up to 29 armed naval and coast guard boats to the area as a “show of force” to urge Beijing to withdraw the rig.
> 
> Beijing moved the deep-sea oil rig, owned by China National Offshore Oil Corp. (CNOOC), a state-owned company, to a location close to the Paracel Islands on May 2. The oil rig was escorted by a “large flotilla of naval vessels,” according to the AP; Beijing “announced that no foreign ships would be allowed within a 3-mile radius of the $1 billion rig.”
> 
> The oil rig’s location is 120 nautical miles off of Vietnam’s coast and within the 200-nautical mile exclusive economic zone that Vietnam claims under the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea.
> 
> “Vietnam will take all the proper and necessary measure to protect its legitimate rights and interests,” Vietnamese Foreign Minister Pham Binh Minh said Wednesday, according to the Vietnam's Than Nien newspaper. Vietnam calls the Chinese move illegal and a violation of Vietnamese sovereignty. It has sought diplomatic talks with China to resolve the situation.
> 
> An unnamed Chinese oil industry official told Reuters that the decision to move the rig looked like a political rather than a commercial decision:
> 
> "This reflected the will of the central government and is also related to the U.S. strategy on Asia," said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue.
> 
> "It is not commercially driven. It is also not like CNOOC has set a big exploration blueprint for the region."
> 
> The US State Department weighed in on the tensions on Tuesday. Spokeswoman Jen Psaki called China’s “decision to operate its oil rig in disputed waters [...] provocative and unhelpful to the maintenance of peace and stability in the region.”
> 
> Vietnam and China have clashed seriously in the South China Sea at least three other times in the past 40 years, AP notes:
> 
> China occupied the Paracel Islands 40 years ago, and 74 U.S.-backed South Vietnamese forces died in a subsequent military clash. The Vietnamese and Chinese navies clashed again in 1988 in the disputed Spratly Islands, leaving 64 Vietnamese sailors dead.
> 
> In 1992, China awarded a contract to U.S. energy company Crestone to explore for oil and gas in the Spratly Islands. Vietnam protested the move. Two years later, Vietnam’s navy forced the company’s oil rigs to leave the area
> 
> And the Philippines in particular has taken a strong stand against Chinese territorial claims. In March, Manila lodged a legal case with the United Nations that challenges Beijing’s claims in the South China Sea, as The Christian Science Monitor reported:
> 
> Beijing immediately dismissed the move, saying it would refuse to take part in any arbitration by the International Tribunal on the Law of the Sea.
> 
> Manila’s decision to lodge nearly 4,000 pages of legal testimony with the tribunal in Hamburg “is about defending what is legitimately ours,” Philippines Foreign Secretary Albert del Rosario told reporters in Manila on Sunday.
> 
> The Philippines has been the most outspoken of the Southeast Asian nations that have competing claims with China in the South China Sea. Beijing lays claim to more than 80 percent of the sea, thought to be rich in oil and gas, within nine dotted lines shown on a Chinese map drawn up in the 1940s.
> 
> Within that tongue-shaped area lie reefs and shoals more than 1,000 miles from China’s shoreline.​



Another propangada news... must be from the yankees or hindooo. Plenty of twisted facts and un named official report? Who are they trying to kid?


----------



## eazzy

Use water canons and ramming. They use them because they said no foreign boats 3miles around the drill rig but you didn't listen...they did this for reasons...if you think they are wrong do the same.


----------



## Kyle Sun

BoQ77 said:


> The operation of China warships and armed ships in Vietnam EEZ is wrong !!! Totally wrong ...
> And those ships made hurt and damage against Vietnam authority ships ... it's terribly wrong ...
> 
> Chinese fishermen damaged environment by catching large quantity of turtles
> cannot accept


That is your opinion


----------



## Soryu

sweetgrape said:


> Many others? How many, more than 1.3 billion?
> We didn't do bad things, just do what we should and must do, protect our land, island, our benefit, that's all, don't scare me, you little vietnam, we will protect our land with our blood, you want try, do it!
> your comments not like that a worrior do? you still that, like accuse others of criminal while you are criminal. As you said, what do you do for your country except just talk shit before the monitor? why you not join the army, but here talking shit here, idiot.


I'll join army when I got general mobilization order. 
I just make kind of play word with your nick, salt-grape, no need to so upset.
Many countries said Chinese make tension, try to do bad thing ... etc.

I will stop, you have so many sh*t in your mouth to spout out, you should clean yourself at first, don't let your blood stain with sh*t , it's so disgusting, your enemy will be so scared to die.


----------



## BoQ77

We warning, .... they ignore and actively ramming us and use water canon ...
we keep warning ... 
exchange high officials calls, send the official letters of protest

We recorded the evidences about their illegal activities in Vietnam EEZ

and organize the international press conference in Hanoi to announce the recorded evidence about their aggression.

We send warnings again ... and exchange high officials call.

If they ignore and keep their way unchanged.

We would use the harder treatment to them

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

Kyle Sun said:


> That is your opinion



Australian and Westerners ... called Chinese as bad at calculation.
They blamed you dont know how to calculate the EEZ

So the international court is needed to bring China to ...
then they would teach you how to apply the right way what regulated by UNCLOS 1982


----------



## Kyle Sun

BTW , Our fishing boat catch turtle ?

That's new for me .

Does any Chinese member here know about this ? I never hear about we catch turtle , never see turtle in market.



BoQ77 said:


> Australian and Westerners ... called Chinese as bad at calculation.
> They blamed you dont know how to calculate the EEZ


Yeah , British blame Argen. Portuguese blame British.Korea blame Japanese.Japanese blame your beloved RU.

Talk your shit to them !

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## eazzy

We'll have to wait then...

What is happening right now ? There isn't any news.


----------



## sweetgrape

Soryu said:


> I'll join army when I got general mobilization order.
> I just make kind of play word with your nick, salt-grape, no need to so upset.
> Many countries said Chinese make tension, try to do bad thing ... etc.
> 
> I will stop, you have so many sh*t in your mouth to spout out, you should clean yourself at first, don't let your blood stain with sh*t , it's so disgusting, your enemy will be so scared to die.


Vietnamese, hehe!


----------



## Kyle Sun

Soryu said:


> You said many things confused yourself.
> 
> PRC attacked VN in 1974 to rob Paracel >>> so Chinese know there's oil, their greedy rise and attack Vietnamese.
> If Vietnamese government is so afraid pro-Western people, so Vietnam should shake hand with China, hide the news that PRC drag oil rig, ignore eveything and keep living.
> 
> Best sh*t we ever heard from Chinese at western country:
> 
> 
> 
> Chinese mental is amazing me as always.



For god 's sake . 

China even did not have the tech and equipment to detect oil in deep ocean .


----------



## BoQ77

Kyle Sun said:


> BTW , Our fishing boat catch turtle ?
> 
> That's new for me .
> 
> Does any Chinese member here know about this ? I never hear about we catch turtle , never see turtle in market.
> 
> 
> Yeah , British blame Argen. Portuguese blame British.Korea blame Japanese.Japanese blame your beloved RU.
> 
> Talk your shit to them !



Phillipines authorities must have the photos taken Chinese fishermen with turtles n large quantity on their boat

* Chinese scholar calls on Beijing to abide by 1982 UNCLOS *
Wednesday, May 07, 2014 - 17:54:19

(VOVworld)- The China National Offshore Oil Corporation’s drilling rig HD-981’s operation in Vietnam’s exclusive economic zone and continental shelf has been opposed by several countries and even Chinese scholars. In an article on May 6 in his blog on 163.com, China’s leading scholar Li Ling Hua stated that China was a signatory to the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea, and needed to abide by Article 74 and 83 of the Convention on respecting the continental shelf and exclusive economic zone 200 nautical miles of adjacent coasts.


----------



## BoQ77

eazzy said:


> We'll have to wait then...
> 
> What is happening right now ? There isn't any news.



Let me update to you.
After the press conference, the report of offshore force of Vietnam ...showing that China has less aggressive acts, no air activity.
Last night, it's calm down ...

to be ... continued

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Kyle Sun

Edison Chen said:


> We should intentionally nuke Vietnam back to jungle, this is the best solution, once done, it's good forever.


It is not funny to use nuclear weapon to threaten the others.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

Edison Chen said:


> We should intentionally nuke Vietnam back to jungle, this is the best solution, once done, it's good forever.


@ Kaan, Hu Songshan : please ban this guy forever. Rest in peace forever edison chen. you are not suitable for discussing.

In Vietnam, the people feel China threaten heavily our security, they call for nation-wide mobilization ... same as Sino-Vietnam conflict situation in 1979

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

Kyle Sun said:


> BTW , Our fishing boat catch turtle ?
> 
> That's new for me .
> 
> Does any Chinese member here know about this ? I never hear about we catch turtle , never see turtle in market.



he Philippines said Wednesday it seized a Chinese fishing boat and its 11 crewmen on charges of catching endangered sea turtles in disputed South China Sea waters, prompting China to demand their release and accuse Manila of being provocative.
The boat was loaded with more than 350 endangered turtles that were confiscated when it was seized near territory known as Half Moon Shoal, Philippine maritime police Chief Superintendent Noel Vargas said.

China demanded that the Philippines release the boat, and Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying urged Manila to "stop taking further provocative actions."

The Philippine government said its maritime police seized the Chinese fishing boat and apprehended its crewmen "to enforce maritime laws and to uphold Philippine sovereign rights" over its exclusive economic zone.

It is the latest territorial spat between the two Asian nations, which have had increasingly tense disputes over two shoals and other areas of the South China Sea.

China earlier said via state media that Chinese officials lost contact with 11 fishermen after they were intercepted by armed men near Half Moon Shoal not far from the Philippines.

The shoal, called Hasa Hasa in the Philippines, is claimed by China as part of the Nansha island chain, known internationally as the Spratly Islands. The Spratlys are a major cluster of potentially oil- and gas-rich islands and reefs long disputed by China, the Philippines, Taiwan, Malaysia, Vietnam and Brunei.

China lays claim to virtually the entire South China Sea and is locked in an increasingly heated dispute with the Philippines, Vietnam and others over rights to energy resources, fishing grounds and island outposts.

In Washington, State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki said the U.S. had seen reports that Philippine police have seized Chinese and Philippine fishing boats carrying illegally harvested sea turtles about 60 miles (96 kilometers) off the coast of the Philippines, and detained their crews. She urged both sides to work together diplomatically, and voiced U.S. concern that the vessels appeared to have been engaged in direct harvest of endangered species.

Vargas said the Chinese boat will be taken to the western Philippine province of Palawan, about 110 kilometers (70 miles) from Half Moon Shoal, and the fishermen will face charges of violating Philippine laws prohibiting catches of endangered green sea turtles.


----------



## BoQ77

SOUTH CHINA SEA (May 5, 2014) A Chinese People's Liberation Army (Navy) vessel is seen from an MH-60 helicopter assigned to USS Blue Ridge (LCC 19) while conducting flight operations in support of maritime security operations in the South China Sea. The aircraft is part of Helicopter Sea Combat Squadron (HSC) 12, underway with the embarked U.S. 7th Fleet staff aboard Blue Ridge, building relationships and furthering interoperability with allies and partners in the Indo-Asia-Pacific. (U.S. Navy photo)

------------------------------






140505-N-ZZ999-001 SOUTH CHINA SEA (May 5, 2014) U.S. 7th Fleet flagship USS Blue Ridge (LCC 19) transits the South China Sea while conducting training in support of maritime security operations. Blue Ridge, the command and control platform for U.S. 7th Fleet, is underway building relationships and furthering interoperability with allies and partners in the Indo-Asia-Pacific. (U.S. Navy photo/Released)

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Edison Chen

BoQ77 said:


> @ Kaan, Hu Songshan : please ban this guy forever. Rest in peace forever edison chen. you are not suitable for discussing.
> 
> In Vietnam, the people feel China threaten heavily our security, they call for nation-wide mobilization ... same as Sino-Vietnam conflict situation in 1979



You at the biggest roll here, you are intentionally twisting the fact in every thread. I am just counter trolling, you angry now? Haha

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

Edison Chen said:


> You at the biggest roll here, you are intentionally twisting the fact in every thread. I am just counter trolling, you angry now? Haha



I never intentionally threat Chinese or any other country people by any massacre, mass-destruction ... activity.
You keep stating that dangered act, from time to time. is it all about your mind ? same to Khmer Rouge mind ? Pol Pot mind ? Hitler mind ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Nexus

I feel sorry for Vietnam. 
China can not fight with Japan because Japan is too strong, 

China can not fight with India because India have Nukes and ICBMs surplus India is strong and in future India will be True Super power with USA, China and Russia. 

so they turned to south to Bully Vietnam because Vietnam is week and Poor. but they don't want to attack on Vietnam coz of Army of Vietnam.

Remember

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## OCguy

eazzy said:


> If its wrong then why don't respond ? I mean you won against the US right ? It should be easy.



Strange thing for a French person to say re: Vietnam.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

sweetgrape said:


> Vietnamese, hehe!



You China may think this is just a game, but it affect a lot to Vietnam security, the people feel they were threaten heavily ...
so the call for nation-wide mobilization starts ....

As official report: 450,000 ready to fight, 5,000,000 ready for mobilization call.
And Vietnamese people give full support to the call ...


----------



## TaiShang

Soryu said:


> Oh, really!???
> But I see everything seem like ok with most people in Vietnam. Pro-Western is so small to do anything can forcing Viet Government do this or that.
> 
> *Many people think PRC Government drag the rig to Vietnamese EEZ*, make a tension show, to draw Chinese people out internal problems like instability and unrest terrorist action at recent time.



Then you should educate your people that it is not Vietnamese EEZ. It is within China's EEZ.

Maybe your government is trying to pull out a stunt to dupe people out of their miserable economic conditions and re-direct their anger at their own incapable government?



Nexus said:


> I feel sorry for Vietnam.
> China can not fight with Japan because Japan is too strong,
> 
> China can not fight with India because India have Nukes and ICBMs surplus India is strong and in future India will be True Super power with USA, China and Russia.
> 
> so they turned to south to Bully Vietnam because Vietnam is week and Poor. but they don't want to attack on Vietnam coz of Army of Vietnam.



Stupid logic.

The only reason is that India is not in the SCS. 

China engages Japan on daily basis, challenging its sovereignty over Diaoyu Dai in the ECS.

Maritime borders are more important for a maritime power. China has given up territorial-power mentality; that's the reason for greater engagement in the sea. 

Land borders can wait since they are strategically less important. 

China engages according to its strategic priorities. Whether priorities are set right can be discussed. But it cannot be assumed that China is dodging confrontation with stronger rivals.


----------



## BoQ77

No. the international court would teach China again with proper usage of UNCLOS 1982 for EEZ

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Kyle Sun

BoQ77 said:


> No. the international court would teach China again with proper usage of UNCLOS 1982 for EEZ


UN? 

You should ask Saddam and Gaddafi 's opinion about UN>

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

Kyle Sun said:


> UN?
> 
> You should ask Saddam and Gaddafi 's opinion about UN>



You push us to bring the case to court ... no matter you like or not ...
We lend Phillipines a hand, the voice would be more strong !!!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Kyle Sun

BoQ77 said:


> You push us to bring the case to court ... no matter you like or not ...


Saddam is suing US in the hell. 

US do not give a shit about UN.China do much better than US>

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TaiShang

BoQ77 said:


> No. the international court would teach China again with proper usage of UNCLOS 1982 for EEZ



UNCLOS is a convention. China exempted historical claims when it signed. Also, China is P5 power. No convention or court bites a P5 power. If China says no, no customary law becomes international law.


----------



## southeastasiansea

There is also a famous expert who express concerns about this China's assertiveness:
*The recurrent strife between China and Vietnam*
_(Roberto Tofani)_
*The ‘statement war’ over the disputed islands in the South China Sea—or East Sea, as referred to by the Vietnamese–between China and Vietnam is gaining steam.* Actually it was never dormant, but at times it becomes more ferocious than in others.
On May 2 the China National Offshore Oil Corporation (CNOOC) moved the drilling rig HD-981 operating at 15029’ latitude’s and 111012’ longitude’s east, to about 130 nautical miles from the Vietnamese coast, close to the Paracel archipelago.
On the same day, according to Reuters, “Maritime Safety Administration of China (MSAC) published an announcement on its website saying it prohibits all marine vessels entering into a one mile radius of the Haiyang Shiyou 981′s South China Sea drilling work.” The $1 billion oil rig, owned by CNOOC, had been drilling south of Hong Kong.
*Last Sunday the Vietnamese Ministry of Foreign Affairs protested the illegal foray of China’s deep-water drilling rig into Vietnamese waters, which is within the exclusive economic zone and continental shelf of Vietnam*. “The location that the drilling rig HD-981 operates as stated in the China Maritime Safety Administration’s notice is undeniably within Viet Nam’s exclusive economic zone and continental shelf, just about 130 nautical miles from its coast. Viet Nam resolutely protests any activity conducted by foreign countries in its waters without permission. Such an activity is illegal and void,” FM Spokesman Le Hai Binh remarked on May 4. And it “constitutes a violation of Viet Nam’s sovereign rights and jurisdiction under the provisions of the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea,” as underlined in a press release by the State owned enterprise Vietnam Oil and Gas Group (PetroVietnam).
*Foreign Minister Pham Binh Minh called Chinese State Councilor Yang Jiechi and told him the deployment of the deep sea rig*, which he said was accompanied by military vessels, was illegal and a violation of Vietnamese sovereignty. “Vietnam cannot accept and resolutely protests this Chinese action. It demands that China withdraw the rig HD981 and escort its vessels from this area,” a Vietnamese government statement quoted Minh as telling Yang. However, Beijing insists that the rig, CNOOC 981, is in its territorial waters.
Interviewed by the the Vietnamese newspaper ‘Thanh Nien’, Carl Thayer, a maritime expert of the University of New South Wales in Australia said that it is “business as usual in China’s use of illegal force to advance its sovereignty claims.” The Chinese move has thus increased tensions and, after the Vietnamese statements an editorial of the Chinese newspaper ‘Global Times’ threatened Vietnam with a ‘lesson it deserves’.
*Two years ago, at the end of May*, a Chinese patrol boat intentionally severed a seismic cable towed by a Vietnamese survey vessel working about 120 miles off Vietnam’s shore and hundreds of miles south of China’s Hainan Island. The incident occurred well within Vietnam’s 200 nautical mile Exclusive Economic Zone as defined by the Law of the Sea Treaty (signed by both Vietnam and China). On that occasion, hundreds of Vietnamese marched on the Chinese Embassy in Hanoi and the Chinese Consulate General in Ho Chi Minh City in a rare public protest to condemn what they called ‘China’s violation of Vietnamese sovereignty’ in the disputed South China Sea. This was similar to an incident in December 2007, when widespread anger over China’s growing assertiveness about its claims to the Paracels and Spratlys drew hundreds of people into the streets of Hanoi.
“We are sick and tired of this whole situation and for sure we are ready to take the street as we did in the past,” explained a University student eager to take the protest out in the open.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

1974 China invaded Paracels ... not a long history.

The *Battle of the Paracel Islands* was a military engagement between the naval forces of the People's Republic of China and Republic of Vietnam (South Vietnam) in Paracel Islands on January 19, 1974. The battle was an escalation of the Republic of Vietnam Navy's efforts to expel Chinese fishing vessels from the vicinity of some of the Paracels.

After their amphibious assault on January 20, the Chinese held 48 war prisoners including 1 American advisor[6

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## hoangsa

Vietnam should break the relationship with China. No import, no export anymore. Vietnam will be very hard time, cost for living will be much higher, the nation may be slow down 2 or even 5 years but sure will develop again stronger, better. 

Stop making friend with China. Never ever deal with China again.
Strengthen relationship with Russia.
Strengthen relationship with Asean.
Renew relationship with EU
Start closer relationship with US

That is the long way to go. Now fight them back, because Vietnam has no way to set back. Enemy is just right at the door. Go ahead Vietnamese guys.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## DT1010

uhm, now china has no friend

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## sweetgrape

BoQ77 said:


> You China may think this is just a game, but it affect a lot to Vietnam security, the people feel they were threaten heavily ...
> so the call for nation-wide mobilization starts ....
> 
> As official report: 450,000 ready to fight, 5,000,000 ready for mobilization call.
> And Vietnamese people give full support to the call ...


 Don't post how your vietname support that action you army do, people from others do, who say the game affect china little? in the world, more people want destroy China than vietnam, OK.

I don't fight, I just work hard, and pay tax monthly, that's I can do, support our army buy news weapon, that's all, we have encough soldiers, don't scare us by that many vietnamese are ready for mobilization call kind of, I don't care.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Edison Chen

DT1010 said:


> uhm, now china has no friend



LOL, told you pussies many times, we don't need friends. Anyone who don't make better relations with China, it's their loss, I don't care. We earned respect, while you are still begging for sympathy and respect, this is huge difference, get it?


----------



## Rechoice

DT1010 said:


> uhm, now china has no friend



Friend of China is Khmer Rouge.



Edison Chen said:


> LOL, told you pussies many times, we don't need friends. Anyone who don't make better relations with China, it's their loss, I don't care. We earned respect, while you are still begging for sympathy and respect, this is huge difference, get it?



he he, people in the world looks down at chinaman, he is mad now.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

be careful when you play with knife, you may cut yourself.

you may find no oil as help for your economy, but find unrest as threat to your economy.

make us poor could not help you stronger.

we used to be familiar with wartime ... do you want to taste ?


----------



## cirr

DT1010 said:


> uhm, now china has no friend



And you think the US is your friend？

The US utters a few words only to encourage you lot to die for its interests while doing hundreds of billions dollars worth biz with China both on and under the table。You won't know even when you are sold out for peanuts.

Don't be so naive。You guys don't have friends even among ASEAN。

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## hoangsa

Edison Chen said:


> LOL, told you pussies many times, we don't need friends. Anyone who don't make better relations with China, it's their loss, I don't care. We earned respect, while you are still begging for sympathy and respect, this is huge difference, get it?


China earn respect, don't care friend or sympathy. We are very glad to hear that. If most of Chinese think like you, the situation will be better for Vietnam because that is the clear sign China will start down trend soon. 

Even US, number one powerful nation at the moment, have never dared to think like that. Just rising China and Chinese think like that...ha..ha..good...good. Keep your thinking.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Oldman1

xunzi said:


> The American daddy better gives us a good explanation and forces the Phillipines to release our fisherman.



You mean China needs to give us a good explanation and do something about trying to release your own people. Begging would be a good start to get the U.S. to help release them.


----------



## Rechoice

cirr said:


> And you think the US is your friend？
> 
> The US utters a few words only to encourage you lot to die for its interests while doing hundreds of billions dollars worth biz with China both on and under the table。You won't know even when you are sold out for peanuts.
> 
> Don't be so naive。You guys don't have friends even among ASEAN。



china is trouble maker here in region, don't mastubolate yourselves.


----------



## sweetgrape

BoQ77 said:


> be careful when you play with knife, you may cut yourself


Man, it is you that you cut yourself while you play with knife.


----------



## Oldman1

If all China can do is ramming, thats very encouraging. They didn't shoot because they cannot afford to go to war. This is nothing new between the U.S. and the Soviet Union at the time when ships rammed into each other. Consequences would be great. China knows that too.

Best to do is keep harassing and not let them get into position from drilling.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## terranMarine

These Vietcongs always love to say China kissed America's butt and betrayed USSR. Now look at them, are they sucking Sam's dick for help?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Rechoice

TaiShang said:


> UNCLOS is a convention. China exempted historical claims when it signed. Also, China is P5 power. No convention or court bites a P5 power. If China says no, no customary law becomes international law.



don't lie, no document decrared before signing that china will exempted history claim. UCLOS is international law to solve such dispute..



Oldman1 said:


> If all China can do is ramming, thats very encouraging. They didn't shoot because they cannot afford to go to war. This is nothing new between the U.S. and the Soviet Union at the time when ships rammed into each other. Consequences would be great. China knows that too.
> 
> Best to do is keep harassing and not let them get into position from drilling.



our ships will harass back if the don't stop harass our ships. It was stated in press conference yestoday.


----------



## terranMarine

I suggest more sanctions against the Pinoys.


----------



## sweetgrape

Rechoice said:


> china is trouble maker here in region, don't mastubolate yourselves.


But, seems you vietnamese are masturbate yourselves too much and happily here.




Rechoice said:


> our ships will harass back if the don't stop harass our ships. It was stated in press conference yestoday.


Can't wait for seeing it, hehe!


----------



## bolo

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Vietcong does understand that its survival depends on PRC.
> 
> However, now the entire Vietnam has been politically hijacked by the anti-China/pro-West ultra-nationalists.
> 
> Vietcong is also afraid of those pro-West right-wing groups. If it wasn't the reason that Vietnam is still a socialist country, China would already have bombed them.



What good is that going to do for Vietnam?


BoQ77 said:


> We warning, .... they ignore and actively ramming us and use water canon ...
> we keep warning ...
> exchange high officials calls, send the official letters of protest
> 
> We recorded the evidences about their illegal activities in Vietnam EEZ
> 
> and organize the international press conference in Hanoi to announce the recorded evidence about their aggression.
> 
> We send warnings again ... and exchange high officials call.
> 
> If they ignore and keep their way unchanged.
> 
> We would use the harder treatment to them


Please just fire the first missile.



DT1010 said:


> uhm, now china has no friend


. Are you 10 years old ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

terranMarine said:


> These Vietcongs always love to say China kissed America's butt and betrayed USSR. Now look at them, are they sucking Sam's dick for help?



There was cold war, kid. China betrayed his friends to find new master and attacked on friends to showed of his traitor mentality .

After 1979, we know true face of China. Using enemy of enemy to counter enemy is good deal.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## bolo

terranMarine said:


> These Vietcongs always love to say China kissed America's butt and betrayed USSR. Now look at them, are they sucking Sam's dick for help?


Sucking, lying and rimming is what they do best.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Rechoice

sweetgrape said:


> But, seems you vietnamese are masturbate yourselves too much and happily here.



How do people in region Japan, India, Russia, Philippine ... look at you ? don't say stupid things here.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Oldman1

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> We love to hear more criticism from our opponent.



You criticize many times already on the U.S.. Even to the point of having a few hundred Marines in Australia. You guys that scared?


----------



## Edison Chen

Crying will help you win sympathy, but it can never save your inferior complex.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## bolo

Oldman1 said:


> You criticize many times already on the U.S.. Even to the point of having a few hundred Marines in Australia. You guys that scared?


Need more marines in Australia.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## sweetgrape

Rechoice said:


> How do people in region Japan, India, Russia, Philippine ... look at you ? don't say stupid things here.


 Russia? hehe, self-rightous vietnamese!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Oldman1

bolo said:


> Need more marines in Australia.



It was enough to get China mad. So not really. Got many in Okinawa which is closer.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## terranMarine

Rechoice said:


> There was cold war, kid. China betrayed his friends to find new master and attacked on friends to showed of his traitor mentality .
> 
> After 1979, we know true face of China. Using enemy of enemy to counter enemy is good deal.



Always repeating the same old crap, it's the only nonsense answer you can come up with whenever you don't have the guts to admit you seek American help.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## terranMarine

Rechoice said:


> How do people in region Japan, India, Russia, Philippine ... look at you ? don't say stupid things here.



So how does Russia look at China for putting a rig in SCS? How does Russia look at China for ramming Vietcong vessels?
Go ask the Russians and put some sources here little boy.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## sweetgrape

Oldman1 said:


> You criticize many times already on the U.S.. Even to the point of having a few hundred Marines in Australia. You guys that scared?





Oldman1 said:


> It was enough to get China mad. So not really. Got many in Okinawa which is closer.


Even you are mad, we will not, hehe, you think PLA will be scared by a defeated rival?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## bolo

terranMarine said:


> I suggest more sanctions against the Pinoys.


? Sanctions? The question you should ask your government is why bother having diplomatic relationship with Philippines? I expect the same 'we urge Philippines to release the fishermen, blal, blah, blah.' nothing new ever comes out of Chinese foreign ministry's mouth.


----------



## Oldman1

sweetgrape said:


> Even you are mad, we will not, hehe, you think PLA will be scared by a defeated rival?



No you guys are mad, the Chinese govt. has already said that when responding to a couple of Marines being sent to Australia which is far from China. You guys are really scared of a rival that killed many Chinese and prevented from conquering South Korea.


----------



## Oldman1

bolo said:


> ? Sanctions? The question you should ask your government is why bother having diplomatic relationship with Philippines? I expect the same 'we urge Philippines to release the fishermen, blal, blah, blah.' nothing new ever comes out of Chinese foreign ministry's mouth.



Send in your fleet and bomb the Philippines until its gives up your people.


----------



## sweetgrape

Oldman1 said:


> No you guys are mad, the Chinese govt. has already said that when responding to a couple of Marines being sent to Australia which is far from China. You guys are really scared of a rival that killed many Chinese and prevented from conquering South Korea.


You can keep masturbating yourself here, whether we are mad? don't take the diplomatic language seriously.
Whether we are scared by you, ask PLA. you think we are scared by you, so you can let your army cross 38 lines again, this time, how many allies will you organized?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

A bunch of crying babies。

Go and ask the Butcher of Vietnam for help if you have any dignity.


----------



## Rechoice

sweetgrape said:


> Russia? hehe, self-rightous vietnamese!





terranMarine said:


> So how does Russia look at China for putting a rig in SCS? How does Russia look at China for ramming Vietcong vessels?
> Go ask the Russians and put some sources here little boy.



Study more kids. How many books printed in Soviet era about mentality of Chinese ( i limited to Chinese leadrships only ). To day, policy is game. Russia could play with you but no trusted partner.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Rechoice said:


> Study more kids. How many books printed in Soviet era about mentality of Chinese ( i limited to Chinese leadrships only ). To day, policy is game. Russia could play with you but no trusted partner.



We don't need Russia's trust, but the only thing matters is that right now they need our support.


----------



## BoQ77

Vietnam is in position to send our ships there to compete Chinese invading ships...
similar to what Japan did to China in Senkaku ...

Smaller ship doesn't means no resistance to China illegal operation ...


----------



## Kyle Sun

terranMarine said:


> These Vietcongs always love to say China kissed America's butt and betrayed USSR. Now look at them, are they sucking Sam's dick for help?





Oldman1 said:


> You criticize many times already on the U.S.. Even to the point of having a few hundred Marines in Australia. You guys that scared?


US is classic hypocrite , you deserve criticism.

And Yes, a few hundred Marines really freak me out, they are the Great WORLD POLICE.


----------



## Rechoice

cirr said:


> A bunch of crying babies。
> 
> Go and ask the Butcher of Vietnam for help if you have any dignity.



China Deng Xiaoping went to Washington to get permission from Carter brfore attack on Viets 1979.


----------



## cirr

BoQ77 said:


> SOUTH CHINA SEA (May 5, 2014) A Chinese People's Liberation Army (Navy) vessel is seen from an MH-60 helicopter assigned to USS Blue Ridge (LCC 19) while conducting flight operations in support of maritime security operations in the South China Sea. The aircraft is part of Helicopter Sea Combat Squadron (HSC) 12, underway with the embarked U.S. 7th Fleet staff aboard Blue Ridge, building relationships and furthering interoperability with allies and partners in the Indo-Asia-Pacific. (U.S. Navy photo)
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 140505-N-ZZ999-001 SOUTH CHINA SEA (May 5, 2014) U.S. 7th Fleet flagship USS Blue Ridge (LCC 19) transits the South China Sea while conducting training in support of maritime security operations. Blue Ridge, the command and control platform for U.S. 7th Fleet, is underway building relationships and furthering interoperability with allies and partners in the Indo-Asia-Pacific. (U.S. Navy photo/Released)



Whistling in the dark？

Using the Butcher of Vietnam‘s naval assets？

Don't you guys have any self-esteem?

And if you think the Americans would shed their blood for you, you'd better go and see a doctor. Fast

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## sweetgrape

Rechoice said:


> Study more kids. How many books printed in Soviet era about mentality of Chinese ( i limited to Chinese leadrships only ). To day, policy is game. Russia could play with you but no trusted partner.


So, you talking about history something? you had also been the country pay tribute to us, you also have defeated us in some battle, so what?

And, you put Russia, Japan, Philippine, india here for what? while at the war of USA and North Vietnam, how many countries sided with you?!




BoQ77 said:


> Vietnam is in position to send our ships there to compete Chinese invading ships...
> similar to what Japan did to China in Senkaku ...


You mean Japan invade our Diaoyu island, seems you side with Japan?! surprise, interesting, you drag Japan here, hehe.




BoQ77 said:


> Smaller ship doesn't means no resistance to China illegal operation ...


Well, small country also not means you are right, and legal in occuping the island belonged to a bigger one, understand?!



Rechoice said:


> China Deng Xiaoping went to Washington to get permission from Carter brfore attack on Viets 1979.


No, we just tell USA, we can handle you, let they learn from it.

Wait, why kick you *** need permission from USA? What is vietnam for USA? its dog?


----------



## BoQ77

May 8, 2014 11:53 am JST
*U.S. "concerned" about China-Vietnam ship collisions in S. China Sea*
WASHINGTON (Kyodo) -- The United States expressed concern Wednesday about a series of recent collisions between Chinese and Vietnamese ships in connection with an oil rig project in a disputed area of the South China Sea. 





In this photo released by Vietnam Coast Guard, a Chinese ship, left, shoots water cannon at a Vietnamese vessel, right, while a Chinese Coast Guard ship, center, sails alongside in the South China Sea, off Vietnam's coast, on May 7. © AP/Vietnam Coast Guard

State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki told reporters, "We are strongly concerned about dangerous conduct and intimidation by vessels in the disputed area."

The comment followed an announcement by the Vietnamese government that Chinese vessels intentionally rammed its ships near the China-controlled Paracel Islands, which Vietnam claims, in multiple incidents since earlier this week.

Hanoi said China maneuvered its ships to protect an oil rig near the area and six Vietnamese crew members were injured in the incidents.



Psaki did not confirm the claim by the Vietnamese government but said, "Obviously, we oppose provocative or unilateral actions that jeopardize peace and security in the South China Sea."

Psaki called on all parties concerned to "exercise restraint and address competing sovereignty claims peacefully, diplomatically, and in accordance with international law."

The U.S. policy has been to not take any position on competing sovereignty claims in the South China Sea as well as the East China Sea, where China claims Japan-controlled islets.

Meanwhile, the U.S. spokeswoman called on China to release prominent human rights lawyer Pu Zhiqiang and other activists who were detained after they met to mark the 25th anniversary of the Tiananmen massacre.

"The United States is deeply concerned" over reports about their detention, Psaki said, noting they had participated in a meeting "to peacefully mark the upcoming June 4 anniversary of the violent suppression of demonstrations in and around Beijing's Tiananmen Square."

She also said the U.S. government calls on Chinese authorities to "remove restrictions on their freedom of movement and guarantee them the protections and the freedoms to which they are entitled under China's international human rights commitment."

The 1989 incident was a military suppression of a student-led pro-democracy protest in Beijing. Pu was one of the student protesters. The Chinese government has not given an official death toll although estimates range from hundreds to thousands.


US military plane in Vietnam

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

Rechoice said:


> China Deng Xiaoping went to Washington to get permission from Carter brfore attack on Viets 1979.



That's your personal and lame explanation of history。

And if you are right，you people have one more reason to hate the Americans to the bones。


----------



## Solomon2

sweetgrape said:


> Man, it is you that you cut yourself while you play with knife.


In 1979 it was China that played knife with Vietnam, and China got sliced up really bad. Yet that failure benefited China enormously, as the military lost enough credit to be relegated to the fourth and last position of Deng's Four Modernizations, with agriculture, industry, and science all having higher priority and sucking up investment capital instead. Just imagine the leaps China could make tomorrow if its military adventurism fails today!


----------



## Rechoice

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> We don't need Russia's trust, but only thing matters is that right now they need our support.



Russia is supperous nation, they can do if they want. They could destoyed Napoleon and Hitler Army in the past. Putin has his policy, I was just diplomacy thnks for China. What does it mean in this Crimea conflicts ?

Yestoday, Putin has been addressed massage to Vietnam leadership for the Victory Day 7/5 on Dien Bien Phu Battle.


----------



## sweetgrape

Solomon2 said:


> In 1979 it was China that played knife with Vietnam, and China got sliced up really bad. Yet that failure benefited China enormously, as the military lost enough credit to be relegated to the fourth and last position of Deng's Four Modernizations, with agriculture, industry, and science all having higher priority and sucking up investment capital instead. Just imagine the leaps China could make tomorrow if its military adventurism fails today!


 Very superficial analysis, because of we "got sliced up bad" so military lost its priority? very very naive and superficial, good to know you can't see the cause deeply.


----------



## BoQ77

cirr said:


> Whistling in the dark？
> 
> Using the Butcher of Vietnam‘s naval assets？
> 
> Don't you guys have any self-esteem?
> 
> And if you think the Americans would shed their blood for you, you'd better go and see a doctor. Fast



We don't need them to shed their blood for us ...
Thanks American for training our Coast Guards and provide us the equipments.

Training facility in Haiphong, Vung Tau and in USA ... since 2008

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

TaiShang said:


> Then you should educate your people that it is not Vietnamese EEZ. It is within China's EEZ.
> 
> Maybe your government is trying to pull out a stunt to dupe people out of their miserable economic conditions and re-direct their anger at their own incapable government?


Sadly, you're so dumb to say anything like this and understand the issues.
While Chinese was killed like pigs in their country, their government drag a massive billion dollar rig to show off power, violate other country EEZ, sovereignty.

China EEZ at nowhere !??? LOL

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

cirr said:


> That's your personal and lame explanation of history。
> 
> And if you are right，you people have one more reason to hate the Americans to the bones。



No, we have more war with China in the past than with USA. and now chia try best to rob Islands and sea of us.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## sweetgrape

Rechoice said:


> Russia is supperous nation, they can do if they want. They could destoyed Napoleon and Hitler Army in the past. Putin has his policy, I was just diplomacy thnks for China. What does it mean in this Crimea conflicts ?
> 
> Yestoday, Putin has been addressed massage to Vietnam leadership for the Victory Day 7/5 on Dien Bien Phu Battle.


You "give" us what's kind of Russia is? how can you expect what Russia will address to you next time? don't you find you are contradictory?


----------



## Soryu

Kyle Sun said:


> It is not funny to use nuclear weapon to threaten the others.


No, you wrong, it's very funny when the garbage like him threaten the others with nuke ... 
At before he can nuke some where or someone, Edison Chen will die in his pathetic life ...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

sweetgrape said:


> Don't post how your vietname support that action you army do, people from others do, who say the game affect china little? in the world, more people want destroy China than vietnam, OK.
> 
> I don't fight, I just work hard, and pay tax monthly, that's I can do, support our army buy news weapon, that's all, we have encough soldiers, don't scare us by that many vietnamese are ready for mobilization call kind of, I don't care.


No, you still stay here, spout "sh*t" out from your mouth, try to stain the other member with that disgusting from you, you're so freak ...  



Solomon2 said:


> In 1979 it was China that played knife with Vietnam, and China got sliced up really bad. Yet that failure benefited China enormously, as the military lost enough credit to be relegated to the fourth and last position of Deng's Four Modernizations, with agriculture, industry, and science all having higher priority and sucking up investment capital instead. Just imagine the leaps China could make tomorrow if its military adventurism fails today!


Some mental and arrogant just keep shout out how did they teach Vietnamese a lesson ...
I think there's one lesson: Chinese politicians is always play dirty game ...

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## bolo

BoQ77 said:


> We don't need them to shed their blood for us ...
> Thanks American for training our Coast Guards and provide us the equipments.
> 
> Training facility in Haiphong, Vung Tau and in USA ... since 2008
> View attachment 27760
> View attachment 27761


I guess there are no qualified Vietnamese trainers so Americans are required. After training, time to call some Vietnamese chickens.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## terranMarine

Rechoice said:


> Study more kids. How many books printed in Soviet era about mentality of Chinese ( i limited to Chinese leadrships only ). To day, policy is game. Russia could play with you but no trusted partner.



Haha If Russian printed so many books about our mentality then our actions in SCS should come as no surprise right? Why bother to tell us how Russia will look at us if you already answered your own question.


----------



## BoQ77

US Coast Guards is the best of the kind ...

US funded VCG for learning English to cooperate with USA, Australia ... too


----------



## cirr

Rechoice said:


> No, we have more war with China in the past than with USA. and now chia try best to rob Islands and sea of us.



That amounts to saying that Vietnam was part of China.

Good that you people admit it.

By the way, since Vietnam is no longer part of China, when do you guys intend to stop using Chinese Hanzi（Chinese ideograph） for your names? Especially the family name?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Soryu

cirr said:


> That amounts to saying that Vietnam was part of China.
> 
> Good that you people admit it.
> 
> By the way, since Vietnam is no longer part of China, when do you guys intend to stop using Chinese Hanzi（Chinese ideograph） for your names? Especially the family name?


Why should we do as you say !?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## BoQ77

a weak coast guard could seize China boats ... because they get the backup of Americans

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Reviewer21

@Hu Songshan 



terranMarine said:


> These Vietcongs always love to say China kissed America's butt and betrayed USSR. Now look at them, are they sucking Sam's dick for help?


----------



## bolo

cirr said:


> That amounts to saying that Vietnam was part of China.
> 
> Good that you people admit it.
> 
> By the way, since Vietnam is no longer part of China, when do you guys intend to stop using Chinese Hanzi（Chinese ideograph） for your names? Especially the family name?


I don't think Minh Tran would like that.



Soryu said:


> Why did we should do as you say !?


You hate Chinese so much, why use their surnames ? Minh Yamaguchi sounds better.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

bolo said:


> I don't think Minh Tran would like that.
> 
> 
> You hate Chinese so much, why use their surnames ? Minh Yamaguchi sounds better.



Bolo : what matter if we use Chinese AK as our weapon ?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## TaiShang

Rechoice said:


> don't lie, no document decrared before signing that china will exempted history claim. UCLOS is international law to solve such dispute..
> 
> 
> 
> our ships will harass back if the don't stop harass our ships. It was stated in press conference yestoday.



That is not true. China made exemptions before signing the convention. Every agreement comes with exemptions. 

Vietnam has to respect our sovereign rights and stop making a fool of itself by clinging to petty excuses. Like Foreign Ministry Spokeswoman Hua said, Xisha Islands are a part of China’s sovereign territory and the activities of Chinese companies are within the mandate of Chinese sovereignty and administration. 

Vietnam and the US have nothing to do with that.

Especially the US is in no position to make irresponsible remarks onChina’s internal affairs.

That is loud an clear.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

550 km of range missiles, Mach 1.4


----------



## Edison Chen

bolo said:


> I don't think Minh Tran would like that.
> 
> 
> You hate Chinese so much, why use their surnames ? *Minh Yamaguchi* sounds better.



*Dung Yamaguchi *is better.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TaiShang

Oldman1 said:


> It was enough to get China mad. So not really. Got many in Okinawa which is closer.



Yes. And the Okinawans hate them.


----------



## Reviewer21

Niiiiiice!


----------



## BoQ77

*U.S. calls on China to free Tiananmen anniversary activists*
*Posted:* May 8, 2014 | *Author:* chankaiyee2 | *Filed under:* Uncategorized | *Tags:* China, Chinese politics, fear caused by Tiananmen, Liu Di, Pu Zhiqiang, Tiananmen Protests, Xu Youyu |Leave a comment





Chinese lawyer Pu Zhiqiang (R) speaks to journalists outside a courthouse in Chongqing municipality, December 28, 2012.
Credit: REUTERS/Stringer

The United States urged China to release rights activist Pu Zhiqiang and other rights campaigners detained this week after attending a meeting that called for a probe into the suppression of pro-democracy protests in Tiananmen Square in 1989.

“The United States is deeply concerned over reports that rights lawyer Pu Zhiqiang and other activists have been detained,” U.S. State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki told a regular news briefing in Washington on Wednesday.

“We call on Chinese authorities to release these individuals immediately, remove restrictions on their freedom of movement, and guarantee them the protections and freedoms to which they are entitled under China’s international human rights commitments.”

The five rights activists were detained on Tuesday after they attended the weekend meeting that called for the Tiananmen investigation, three lawyers and a rights group said.

Pu Zhiqiang is a prominent free-speech lawyer, who has represented many dissidents, including artist Ai Weiwei and an activist of the “New Citizens’ Movement,” a group that urges Chinese leaders to disclose their assets. He was detained on a charge of “causing a disturbance,” two lawyers said.

He has also opposed the system of forced labor camps, which the government has abolished, and he was featured prominently in state media for that campaign – unusual for a government critic.

Also detained were dissident Liu Di and Xu Youyu, a professor with the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, a government think tank, rights lawyer Shang Baojun said, citing conversations he had with family members of Liu and Xu.

Shang said he did not know what charge Liu and Xu would face as the families have not received their detention notices.

Dissidents Hu Shigen and Hao Jian, who teaches at the Beijing Film Academy, were also detained, according to Chinese Human Rights Defenders, a China-based rights advocacy group.

The detentions raised the stakes in a crackdown on dissent and underscored the sensitivity of Chinese leaders to criticism ahead of the 25th anniversary of the crushing of demonstrations around Tiananmen Square in Beijing on June 4, 1989.

The government has never released a death toll for the crackdown, but estimates from human rights groups and witnesses range from several hundred to several thousand.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## S10

Rechoice said:


> chinaman ruled by whiteman to 1997/1999.


And we're coming to rule you again, eunuch.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## S10

China should start massing troops near the Vietnam border. It's time to put the military to the test after decades of reforms and modernization. The Hanoi regime should collapse under its own weight quickly when crippled militarily. After that, we can split Vietnam into two again, ensuring neither has enough power to challenge us.

Even if we do not go to war, we should keep the military pressure up on the border. They are dirt poor and cannot afford to maintain an extended standoff without compromises to their economy. Impose economic sanctions along with military pressure to slow their economy growth while accelerating their inflation rate. Either option, we need to make sure they are rendered harmless. The best way to do that would be splitting the country again.

Once they are sufficiently weakened, at least one part will have to depend on China for survival while the other will become an American client state. At this point, they're trying to be friendly with US anyways, so it's better to have a divided Vietnam as opposed to a unified Vietnam as an American pawn on our doorstep. We must pick the lesser of two evils.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

Do it before too late, Chinese !!!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## xunzi

Where is our American friend's big mouth when the Philippines provocatively arresting our fisherman in dispute water?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

bolo said:


> I don't think Minh Tran would like that.
> 
> 
> You hate Chinese so much, why use their surnames ? Minh Yamaguchi sounds better.


Minh Tran !???, Minh Yamaguchi !??? our name was not put like that
I never say I hate Chinese so much.
And Chinese is minority ethnic living in Vietnam nowaday, so they're a part of Vietnamese, their culture mix with Vietnam, and a part of Vietnamese, so it's nothing to relate with some bastard, dumb or idiot try to harm our interests ...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## xunzi

If we can't even drill near our controlled territory, then what can we do? This bullying must be stop!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

S10 said:


> China should start massing troops near the Vietnam border. It's time to put the military to the test after decades of reforms and modernization. The Hanoi regime should collapse under its own weight quickly when crippled militarily. After that, we can split Vietnam into two again, ensuring neither has enough power to challenge us.
> 
> Even if we do not go to war, we should keep the military pressure up on the border. They are dirt poor and cannot afford to maintain an extended standoff without compromises to their economy. Impose economic sanctions along with military pressure to slow their economy growth while accelerating their inflation rate. Either option, we need to make sure they are rendered harmless. The best way to do that would be splitting the country again.
> 
> Once they are sufficiently weakened, at least one part will have to depend on China for survival while the other will become an American client state. At this point, they're trying to be friendly with US anyways, so it's better to have a divided Vietnam as opposed to a unified Vietnam as an American pawn on our doorstep. We must pick the lesser of two evils.


I still waiting you guys come for years since I came this forum ...
Only thing invade on Vietnamese land territory is cheap, fake copy product and some worker until now ...

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## S10

Soryu said:


> I still waiting you guys come for years since I came this forum ...
> Only thing invade on Vietnamese land territory is cheap, fake copy product and some worker until now ...


Don't worry. You'll live to see us tear your country apart. We'll take our time.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

xunzi said:


> If we can't even drill near our controlled territory, then what can we do? This bullying must be stop!


You can sit here and chit chat with us ... 



S10 said:


> Don't worry. You'll live to see us tear your country apart. We'll take our time.


So I must become immortal man, it'll be very hard for me, but I will try.
Hope you can live until Chinese can take Senkaku from Japan and take Taiwan back. It's still butthurt for you guys now ...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## sweetgrape

Soryu said:


> No, you still stay here, spout "sh*t" out from your mouth, try to stain the other member with that disgusting from you, you're so freak ...


If I leave, who feed you vietnamese D** sh*t? you are freak D**.



BoQ77 said:


> a weak coast guard could seize China boats ... because they get the backup of Americans


do you regret for American are your daddy?!


----------



## BoQ77

A screengrab shows the 'rough treatment' of a Chinese woman identified as Jiang Huixing. Photo: Weibo

China lashes out at Manila airport abuse

2014-May-8 08:53 Shenzhen Daily
THE Chinese Embassy in Manila has lashed out at what it called the “rough treatment” of a Chinese woman who was caught on camera at the capital’s international airport brawling with an immigration official, who can be seen dragging her along the floor and slapping her.

In a video recorded at Ninoy Aquino International Airport’s Terminal 3, the pair can be seen engaged in a violent clash before the woman is finally shoved into a nearby room.

The recording shows the official dragging the woman, who is sitting on the ground, for several meters before she stands up and repeatedly hits him with her shoe.

The official is then seen shoving her hard and slapping her several times, pushing her out of the picture while two uniformed security personnel watch from nearby.

It is unclear from the video how the altercation started.

The Chinese woman was later identified as 38-year-old Jiang Huixing. She had arrived from Beijing on a Cebu Pacific flight to resume her work as a teacher at a Chinese school Sunday, local media reported.

Jiang was denied entry into the country for working there illegally, said Maria Angelica Pedro, spokeswoman of the Philippine Bureau of Immigration. “She reacted violently. [...] When she was restrained by a female security personnel she bit the female security personnel.”

An immigration agent, identified as Rashid Ramirez, then intervened, according to the Manila International Airport Authority.

An airport authority spokesman said the incident was being investigated. Ramirez has been suspended and is under investigation, Philippine immigration chief Siegfried Mison said Tuesday.

Ramirez was not a regular but a contractual employee acting as one of the “confidential agents” of the Bureau of Immigration, whose current contract ends June 30, 2014, said Mison. “He was already advised not to report for work,” he said.

Jiang has since been sent back to Beijing, Petro said, stressing that Jiang had not been deported, but returned voluntarily to Beijing.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

cirr said:


> That amounts to saying that Vietnam was part of China.
> 
> Good that you people admit it.
> 
> By the way, since Vietnam is no longer part of China, when do you guys intend to stop using Chinese Hanzi（Chinese ideograph） for your names? Especially the family name?



China was part of Mongolia, Japan and Britain.

Our name was translated in to Han Zi. You can ask Editson Chan



Edison Chen said:


> *Dung Yamaguchi *is better.



China was part of Japan and UK why you choice UK name ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## sweetgrape

Uncle Sam, someone call you, they need your help, don't disappoint her, although you have kicked her *** and be kicked, they still love you big d***, you are very good in bed, hehe!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

sweetgrape said:


> If I leave, who feed you vietnamese D** sh*t? you are freak D**.


So in China, you feed the others with shit, so freak, so disgusting ... Chinese is so dirty, they eat sh*t !???
In others Asia countries, no race do like them.
No wonder when so many freak things happen in China right now!
And PRC try to make many aggressive move against other country like Vietnam, Philippines, Japan, India ...
Hey, don't tell me China attack us because we don't eat things like this *mock-grape* .... so freak, so disgusting ...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

Why use big mouth for Chinese thiefs of rare sea turtles ? and broke the environment ?
watch how the US warship must be scrapped for protecting the shoal, while Chinese warship ruined the shoal ...

last year ...

uss guardian





and DongGuan 560

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## sweetgrape

Soryu said:


> So in China, you feed the others with shit, so freak, so disgusting ... Chinese is so dirty, they eat sh*t !???
> In others Asia countries, no race do like them.
> No wonder when so many freak things happen in China right now!
> And PRC try to make many aggressive move against other country like Vietnam, Philippines, Japan, India ...
> Hey, don't tell me China attack us because we don't eat things like this *mock-grape* .... so freak, so disgusting ...


Hehe, idiot post too much rubbish, your response too suck, worse than your government!


----------



## ViXuyen

Soryu said:


> I still waiting you guys come for years since I came this forum ...
> Only thing invade on Vietnamese land territory is cheap, fake copy product and some worker until now ...


I'm all for these chinaclowns to impose "sanction" on us. They are earning $24 billion usd of trade surplus from us each year; that's an equivalent of 1/10 of the trade surplus that they earn from America.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

S10 said:


> Don't worry. You'll live to see us tear your country apart. We'll take our time.



You lost your land Manchuria to China, why you don't claim back ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Edison Chen

Rechoice said:


> China was part of Mongolia, Japan and Britain.
> 
> Our name was translated in to Han Zi. You can ask Editson Chan
> 
> 
> 
> China was part of Japan and UK why you choice UK name ?



Hello, what's your name?


----------



## Filipino

we're not provoking you intentionally. we take poaching seriously, and that's why we also arrested filipino fishermen in the area that were doing the same thing. the environment and our fish stocks are very important to filipinos. we risked damaging our relationship with america last year after one of their navy ships accidentally destroyed a portion of our coral reefs and we demanded compensation. a small part of the reason as to why we have been slow to industrialize is because we are cautious about environmental damage -- you chinese have so much land to put your factories and power plants, but all we have are our small islands and the seas between them. if we make them unlivable we have nowhere else to go and nowhere else to gather or grow food on.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## GeHAC

Rechoice said:


> You lost your land Manchuria to China, why you don't claim back ?


You have no concept of civilizaton state,stupied question

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## S10

Rechoice said:


> You lost your land Manchuria to China, why you don't claim back ?


Sure Hanoi will be the new Manchuria.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

Edison Chen said:


> We should intentionally nuke Vietnam back to jungle, this is the best solution, once done, it's good forever.


just replace the word "Vietnam" by "China", you fcking retard!

the Russians and Americans had plans to nuke you. I am pretty sure, they still have today.



Nexus said:


> I feel sorry for Vietnam.
> China can not fight with Japan because Japan is too strong,
> 
> China can not fight with India because India have Nukes and ICBMs surplus India is strong and in future India will be True Super power with USA, China and Russia.
> 
> so they turned to south to Bully Vietnam because Vietnam is week and Poor. but they don't want to attack on Vietnam coz of Army of Vietnam.
> 
> Remember


nice pic...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Sorry Vietnam, Russia has obviously chosen her side, so maybe next time you can pick USA as your new sugar daddy. 

ITAR-TASS: World - Russian Pacific Fleet gears up for joint naval drills with China

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## ViXuyen

They nuke us and all the radiation falls back to them killing them all

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Sorry Vietnam, Russia has obviously chosen her side, so maybe next time you can pick USA as your new sugar daddy.
> 
> ITAR-TASS: World - Russian Pacific Fleet gears up for joint naval drills with China


you troll.

where is the words SE Sea in the text?


----------



## NiceGuy

Beast said:


> You can see all the vietnam troll start insulting others when they known they cant beat China. Rest in peace vietnam.


We can support Phil to take back Scaroubough shoal when China navy is got stuck around Oil rig. 

Phil has just made some serious action to u

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> you troll.
> 
> where is the words SE Sea in the text?



Can you read properly?



> The Varyag, a Slava-class missile cruiser with anti-aircraft and anti-submarine striking capabilities, will lead the Pacific Fleet force toward Shanghai in mid-May for *South China Sea exercises code-named Joint Sea 2014*.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## NiceGuy

WuMaoCleverbot said:


> *Beijing tells PH to free Chinese fishers arrested for poaching off Palawan, return boat*
> By: *Reuters*
> May 7, 2014 2:03 PM
> 
> MANILA - (UPDATE3 - 6:36 p.m.) *The Philippines' Department of Foreign Affairs signalled Wednesday it was not heeding an appeal by China's foreign ministry to hand back a Chinese fishing boat and its crew seized by Philippines police for poaching in disputed waters in the South China Sea.*
> 
> The Philippines should stop taking provocative actions, ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying told a daily news briefing.
> 
> The DFA in Manila defended the acts of the officials who apprehended the crew and seized the boat and the marine shipment, adding in a statement that Philippine authorities in Palawan “will address this case in a just, humane and expeditious manner.”
> 
> The DFA stressed that the “*seizing of the Chinese fishing boat, carrying large numbers of endangered species, and the apprehension of its crew by the Philippine National Police Maritime Group Special Boat Unit were undertaken as actions to enforce maritime laws and to uphold Philippine sovereign rights over its EEZ.”*
> 
> Maritime police arrested a Chinese fishing boat with 11 crewmen and a haul of about 500 turtles off a disputed shoal in the Spratly Islands but within the Philippines' exclusive economic zone, a senior official said on Wednesday.
> 
> The Chinese fishing boat was intercepted off Half Moon Shoal on Tuesday, said Chief Superintendent Noel Vargas, head of the Philippine National Police maritime group.
> 
> "The fishing boat is now being towed to Palawan where appropriate charges will be filed against them," Vargas said.
> 
> *The shoal is some 100 kilometers from southwestern Palawan.*
> 
> 
> Beijing tells PH to free Chinese fishers arrested for poaching off Palawan, return boat


China have No power left to threaten Philippine coz its navy is got stuck with VN navy. Times for u guys to take back Scaborough shoal now.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Kyle Sun

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Can you read properly?


I like Ukraine now!


----------



## Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Can you read properly?


ok, you are right.

but if I google “Joint Sea-2014″, then I find this text:

China-Russia Joint Sea-2014 Naval Drill to Be Held on May | Strategic Intelligence News

The “Joint Sea-2014″ exercise in late May along the *East China Sea off Shanghai*, will mark the 65th birthday of the Chinese navy.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Soryu

sweetgrape said:


> Hehe, idiot post too much rubbish, your response too suck, worse than your government!


seem like mock-grape can't speak anything more than his sh*t, pathetic dumb freak ... 
You can return tiexue to feed your buddy with your traditional food ...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NiceGuy

Edison Chen said:


> I think this is none of Vietnam business, right? You feel insecure now, especially after we place the oil rig in your backyard? China can single-handedly take care of both VN and PH simultaneously, kid. There is no such thing - busy.


Just wait and see, if u have to pull back the oil rig, or if u lose Scaborough shoal, it means China is too weak and coward.

if China still can hold the shoal, and the oil rig still stay, then we lose. Okay

Just wait and see

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> ok, you are right.
> 
> but if I google “Joint Sea-2014″, then I find this text:
> 
> China-Russia Joint Sea-2014 Naval Drill to Be Held on May | Strategic Intelligence News
> 
> The “Joint Sea-2014″ exercise in late May along the *East China Sea off Shanghai*, will mark the 65th birthday of the Chinese navy.



The original plan has been changed, now they decide to move to the SCS.

And I got the newest source from the Russian official media over your archived news.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

you can close the thread.

China to conduct naval drills with Russia in East China Sea| Reuters

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## NiceGuy

Just wait for Russia confirmation.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> you can close the thread.
> 
> China to conduct naval drills with Russia in East China Sea| Reuters



As I said, my source is from May 7, while yours is April 30.

Russia has changed her plan, and let's move on.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The original plan has been changed, now they decide to move to the SCS.
> 
> And I got the newest source from the Russian official media over your archived news.


can you provide any proof from official chinese news?



Kyle Sun said:


> I like Ukraine now!


why?


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> can you provide any proof from official chinese news?
> 
> 
> why?



Sure, here is it.

俄媒：中俄海军本月中期将在南海举行联合演习_军事_环球网

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NiceGuy

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> As I said, my source is from May 7, while yours is April 30.
> 
> Russia has changed her plan, and let's move on.


SCS(east sea) have some part truly belong to China. Russia will on ur side only when the drill will happen inside the disputed zone.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

NiceGuy said:


> SCS(east sea) have some part truly belong to China. Russia will on ur side only when the drill will happen inside the disputed zone.



They will drill in the Paracel Islands, isn't this enough for you?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cnleio

Damn, Ukrain ...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NiceGuy

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> They will drill in the Paracel Islands, isn't this enough for you?


Thats what u wish, but I dont think Russia will agree. Maybe the drill is just around Hainan isl


----------



## Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Sure, here is it.
> 
> 俄媒：中俄海军本月中期将在南海举行联合演习_军事_环球网


pls translate

I check the official news in the site: Voice of Russia. It still quotes: maneuvers will be held in the East China Sea in late May.

Read more: Russian, Chinese navies discussing plan of upcoming joint maneuvers - News - World - The Voice of Russia: News, Breaking news, Politics, Economics, Business, Russia, International current events, Expert opinion, podcasts, Video

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## sweetgrape

Soryu said:


> seem like mock-grape can't speak anything more than his sh*t, pathetic dumb freak ...
> You can return tiexue to feed your buddy with your traditional food ...


!


----------



## cirr

Listen dudes。

Vietnameses are our socialist brothers and sisters

Don't be too hard on them，for they might otherwise be pushed into the arms of the Americans。

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

NiceGuy said:


> Thats what u wish, but I dont think Russia will agree. Maybe the drill is just around Hainan isl



They will conduct the beachhead exercise, it is not for Hainan.

Get real, it is obviously that Russia now has abandoned a useless pawn.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## BoQ77

Why send ships to Shanghai ... if you want to exercise in South China Sea ?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> pls translate
> 
> I check the official news in the site: Voice of Russia. It still quotes: maneuvers will be held in the East China Sea in late May.
> 
> Read more: Russian, Chinese navies discussing plan of upcoming joint maneuvers - News - World - The Voice of Russia: News, Breaking news, Politics, Economics, Business, Russia, International current events, Expert opinion, podcasts, Video



This is old news, April 28.

Russia has changed the idea right now on May 7.


----------



## cirr

Ours are contradictions among the people，entirely different from ideological clashes between the oppression and the oppressed。



BoQ77 said:


> Why send ships to Shanghai ... if you want to exercise in South China Sea ?



Putin is visiting Shanghai at about the same time that the Russian fleet makes the port call。

Having said that，I think the joint exercise is still held in the ECS。


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

cirr said:


> Listen dudes。
> 
> Vietnameses are our socialist brothers and sisters
> 
> Don't be too hard on them，for they might otherwise be pushed into the arms of the Americans。



USA only takes the democrazy nations with her, so obviously Vietnam will head toward a civil war if getting too close with USA.

The Vietcong leaders all know it.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TaiShang

BoQ77 said:


> Chinese fishermen damaged environment by catching large quantity of turtles
> cannot accept



Ask that to your all-weather ally, Japan.


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

Well that's what they get for trying to suck up to America, who is Russia's greatest enemy. 

When you try to play both sides, then neither one will come and help you.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

cirr said:


> Ours are contradictions among the people，entirely different from ideological clashes between the oppression and the oppressed。
> 
> 
> 
> Putin is visiting Shanghai at about the same time that the Russian fleet makes the port call。
> 
> Having said that，I think the joint exercise is still held in the ECS。



Russia wanna offer some appeasement for the support we did offer in Ukraine.

Do you think that we should accept this offer?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cirr

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Well that's what they get for trying to suck up to America, who is Russia's greatest enemy.
> 
> When you try to play both sides, then neither one will come and help you.



The Americans could be here today and gone tomorrow。

China will always be where she is today。

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## navtrek

Viet said:


> ok, you are right.
> 
> but if I google “Joint Sea-2014″, then I find this text:
> 
> China-Russia Joint Sea-2014 Naval Drill to Be Held on May | Strategic Intelligence News
> 
> The “Joint Sea-2014″ exercise in late May along the *East China Sea off Shanghai*, will mark the 65th birthday of the Chinese navy.



And you are correct it is East China Sea.. there is some error in the article used to start the thread.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Here is another official Russian media source.



> MOSCOW, May 7 (RIA Novosti) – The Russian Pacific Fleet and the Chinese navy will conduct a joint large-scale cooperative training exercise scheduled for mid-May, a military spokesman told RIA Novosti on Wednesday.
> 
> *“In the middle of May, Russian ships will head towards Shanghai, where they are to take part in the large-scale Naval Cooperation-2014 drill with the navy of China’s People’s Liberation Army, to take place in the South China Sea,” said Capt. 1st Rank Roman Martov.
> 
> Russia and China to Conduct Joint Naval Drills | Defense | RIA Novosti*





navtrek said:


> And you are correct it is East China Sea.. there is some error in the article used to start the thread.



So two official sources made the same error? Are you making fun of the Russian media or what?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## TaiShang

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Russia wanna offer some appeasement for the support we did offer in Ukraine.
> 
> Do you think that we should accept this offer?



Other than sorting out the price for energy impasse, China should expect some political support from Russia in return for the backing we provided in Ukraine.

If Russia is more involved in the Pacific, US and its lackeys will have to recalibrate their strategies. 

History seems to be on China’s side. Even if they are unwilling, conditions push the two together.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

cirr said:


> The Americans could be here today and gone tomorrow。
> 
> China will always be where she is today。



India tried the same, they tried to suck up to both Russia and America at the same time. Then during the 1962 war they called both Russia and America for help, and NEITHER one came.

China on the other hand can play both sides in any situation, because we don't need to call anyone else for help.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cirr

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Russia wanna offer some appeasement for the support we did offer in Ukraine.
> 
> Do you think that we should accept this offer?



It is always good to have a friend as large and powerful as Russia。

But I believe in doing certain things on our own，and achieving/securing territorial integrity is one。

For any strategist worth his salt，freedom of action is of the utter most importance。

China should never ever be dragged into a conflict by a small country。（The US and the Philippines spring to mind）

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Kyle Sun

Viet said:


> can you provide any proof from official chinese news?
> 
> 
> why?


I mean RU need our support for the mess of Ukraine, so Ru may not take position between the incident of CN and Viet.


----------



## Huan

NiceGuy said:


> China have No power left to threaten Philippine coz its navy is got stuck with VN navy. Times for u guys to take back Scaborough shoal now.


I think you are grossly underestimating China's navy and its size.


----------



## Viet

the Pinoys should take the opportunity and bring the Scaborough shoal under control. The Chinese are busy in dealing with Vietnam. that is the perfect time. nearly all of the vessels of the chinese south sea fleet try to protect the oil rig.

with new treaty with Uncle Sam, they are under US military umbrella. minimal risk, maximum fun.


----------



## Huan

ViXuyen said:


> Points are addressed above, you hold ZERO advantage over our airforc and navy over the Spratly; that's the reason why you did not even dare to attack us when we were in the 90's


That is back in the 90's. This is now. China is much stronger.


----------



## Sam1980

cirr said:


> China should never ever be dragged into a conflict by a small country。（The US and the Philippines spring to mind）



“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.” Sun Tzu

I looked very hard, but I couldn't find anything about underestimating your enemy. For a so-called strategist, you lack insight.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## sweetgrape

Viet said:


> the Pinoys should take the opportunity and bring the Scaborough shoal under control. The Chinese are busy in dealing with Vietnam. that is the perfect time.
> 
> with new treaty with Uncle Sam, they are under their military umbrella.


 Busy? How busy?


----------



## Europa

were you aware of it? 

from RT,

*At the end of the last year Ukrainian President Yanukovich during his visit to China signed a memorandum on building a deep water port in Crimea, which also proposed the development of a special economic zone and reconstruction of Sevastopol port.* Chinese companies planned to invest in the development and modernization of irrigation systems, including drip irrigation, introduce modern agricultural technology into Crimea, and develop agricultural storage and logistics hubs. The project also involved constructing a grain terminal at a Crimean port, the construction of an airport, a shipyard, and a terminal for LNG trans-shipment. *Whereas Crimea is a part of Russia now, it would be easier for China to discuss the possibilities to develop a raw-material, logistic and maybe even put a naval base there.*

did russia consult china before annexing crimea? looks so. but what about the naval base? sino-russian one? 

Vladimir Putin, said in March that relations between Russia and China _“are characterized by a high degree of mutual trust, respect for each other's interests, and support in vital issues”. “They are a true partnership and are genuinely comprehensive,”_ he added. 
*
*


----------



## navtrek

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Here is another official Russian media source.
> 
> So two official sources made the same error? Are you making fun of the Russian media or what?



Hmm.. lets see when the exercise happens.. As of now i don't have any comments..


----------



## Huan

Viet said:


> the Pinoys should take the opportunity and bring the Scaborough shoal under control. The Chinese are busy in dealing with Vietnam. that is the perfect time. nearly all of the vessels of the chinese south sea fleet try to protect the oil rig.
> 
> with new treaty with Uncle Sam, they are under US military umbrella. minimal risk, maximum fun.


I dare you to go much farther than that and see what happens.


----------



## Krueger

*Chinese embassy urges Philippines to stop provocative actions*
(Xinhua) May 07, 2014

*MANILA, May 7 -- Chinese embassy in Manila urged the Philippines on Wednesday to "take no more provocative action" after 11 Chinese fishermen were seized by Philippinepolice near Half Moon Shoal of Nansha Islands.*

Chinese embassy spokesman Zhang Hua said in a statement that the embassy had alreadylodged representations with the Philippine side upon learning of the incident.

What has the Philippines done seriously infringed upon the sovereign rights and maritimerights of China, Zhang said.

*He urged the Philippine side to "immediately" release detained Chinese fishermen, returntheir properties and ensure no more similar infringement acts are taken in future.*

The spokesman reiterated that China has indisputable sovereign rights over the sea area,including the Half Moon Shoal of Nansha Islands, where the incident occurred.

The Philippine Department of Foreign Affairs (DFA) on Wednesday confirmed the arrestof the Chinese fishermen.

The DFA explained that such actions were not meant to raise tensions with China.

Chinese embassy urges Philippines to stop provocative actions - People's Daily Online


----------



## NiceGuy

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> They will conduct the beachhead exercise, it is not for Hainan.
> 
> Get real, it is obviously that Russia now has abandoned a useless pawn.


Russia hasnt say that they will conduct the drill inside disputed zone yet. Dont be paranoid, dude

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## BoQ77

Then we know why Chinese citizens feel free to break the law, even in China mainland ...
----------
* Why do Japanese people obey traffic laws? Chinese students give their opinion*



Paula Gerhold Aug 16, 2013


0







On August 11, _Record China_ published an article based on essays written by Chinese students after their first visit to Japan. The piece, titled “How Japanese People Interpret Laws,” mainly focused on the students’ impressions of Japanese roadway rules and regulations and how strictly they are followed.”

Those readers who have had the chance to experience Japanese motorways might not have found the streets very safe at all. Narrow roads often mean narrow escapes from clogged intersections as pedestrians weave in-between eco-delivery bicyclists and taxi cabs. But compared to the hustle and bustle of mainland China, where the rules of the road mean every man for himself, Japan may very well seem an extremely tame, if not complacent, environment.


Though the walking speed of Tokyoite salarymen during their morning rush came as a bit of a surprise, the Chinese school children were even more shocked to see how Japanese people followed traffic laws so faithfully. Even when there were no cars present, pedestrians remained in their proper place at the edge of the sidewalk and waited for their light to turn green.






But why do they wait their turn to cross when there is no present danger? While living and working in Japan, it’s a common sight to see young Japanese children heavily policed when crossing the road, whether by parents or teachers. In fact, it’s cute to see the little ones listen to their teachers’ advice and raise their hands when crossing any street so as to be more noticeable to drivers. But though traffic safety is indeed taught at a very early age in Japan, the same principles are taught to young Chinese children, as well. And yet, as they grow older, people in China ignore the crosswalk directions and go whenever and wherever they can find a space.

It’s not the traffic laws themselves, but rather the attitude toward and consciousness of rules in Japan that differs so distinctly from China. The _Record China_ report explained that Japanese people think of laws as things that are guided and enforced by the people, more so than even the government. They take it upon themselves to ensure that the rule of law is followed and take personal offense when someone violates that self-imposed responsibility. This sense of society, while impressive and truly inspiring in some ways, can also lead to tremendous pressure on the individual.

There’s a stereotype that Japanese people are incredibly humble and overly-apologetic. Sadly, there are definite, documented cases where this is true. During an incident a while back, a young Japanese traveler was kidnapped by terrorists in Iraq and killed. In the video that the terrorists recorded, the kidnapped boy apologized for “causing trouble.” Despite the horrific circumstances, the boy’s family was even publicly censured in Japan for their failure to take proper precautions and follow the laws set in place for their protection. In effect, the victims were pressured into apologizing for the incident due to the rigid sense of communal righteousness.






Nowadays, Japan firmly believes that citizens who do not uphold the law of the land are tantamount to criminals themselves, according to the Chinese news source. Though the commentary might sound a bit harsh, it does bring up a valid point about Japanese society. Even as a foreigner living overseas, there are times when you can feel the watchful gaze of the people checking to see if you’re doing things in the correct and proper way. This tremendous social and mental pressure instilled within the Japanese populace and extended throughout all the people who live within its island borders, keeps people in line and on the sidewalk.
-------------------------------------------



Chinese out of the law


----------



## NiceGuy

sweetgrape said:


> Busy? How busy?


U dont have any power left to force Phil to release ur poor fishermen.



Huan said:


> I dare you to go much farther than that and see what happens.


What happens is Phil point the guns to ur fishermen and arrest them, but ur Navy can do Nothing to rescue them now

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## xunzi

Russia needs to slam down hard on the Vietnamese head because they are stupidly supporting US's West led hegemony while China-Russia is trying very hard to create a multipolar world. Whether you Vietnamese wants it or not, your aggression against us meant you are making it more difficult for Russia-China to create a multipolar world and limit US's hegemony.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Huan

NiceGuy said:


> U dont have any power left to force Phil to release ur poor fishermen.


Maybe on soft diplomatic power, but not on physical military force or "the big stick". I am waiting for them to enraged China even more.


----------



## NiceGuy

Huan said:


> Maybe on soft diplomatic power, but not on physical military force or "the big stick". I am waiting for you to enraged China even more.


diplomatic power can not help the Hong Kong victim in the bus incident, and the same thing will happen to ur poor fishermen specially ur Navy is got stuck with VN navy now.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Kyle Sun

NiceGuy said:


> diplomatic power can not help the Hong Kong victim in the bus incident, and the same thing will happen to ur poor fishermen specially ur Navy is got stuck with VN navy now.


It 's our coastguard , not navy.


----------



## NiceGuy

xunzi said:


> Russia needs to slam down hard on the Vietnamese head because they are stupidly supporting US's West led hegemony while China-Russia is trying very hard to create a multipolar world. Whether you Vietnamese wants it or not, your aggression against us meant you are making it more difficult for Russia-China to create a multipolar world and limit US's hegemony.


Thats what u wish, but Russia may not think the same , the drill maybe just some where near Hainan isl

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## BoQ77

Rosneft has their share as agreement of Putin with Vietnam govt.

*Block 06.1, Vietnam*
As part of TNK-BP acquisition in 2013, Rosneft obtained an ongoing business in Vietnam, which includes:


35% stake in gas condensate Block 06.1 Production Sharing Agreement located on the shelf in the Nam Con Son basin.
The project is carried out under Production Sharing Agreement. Duration of Production Sharing Agreement is until 2023 with an option to extend it for 5 more years.
There are two gas condensate fields at the Production Sharing Agreement site, Lan Tay and Lan Do with initial gas reserves of 67 bcm.
The fields are located at a distance of 375 km from the coast, sea depth is 126 meters.
Lan Tay is a platform with production and gas compression equipment, and living quarters. Production is carried out from 5 wells with subsea production facilities connected to the platform with a single header.
Lan Do is represented by two wells with subsea production facilities connected to Lan Tay platform.
Production of gas and condensate has been carried out since 2002.

32.67% stake in the Nam Con Son Pipeline that transports hydrocarbon from Block 06.1 and from other fields of the basin ashore, and then to power plants close to Ho Chi Minh.
The project is carried out under agreement for business cooperation. Duration of the agreement is until 2035 with a possibility of extension
The asset includes:
Offshore two-phase pipeline 26’’, 370 km in length from Lan Tay field platform to the shore-based terminal;
Dinko Onshore Gas Terminal (condensate separation, gas dewatering);
Onshore Gas Pipeline 30’’, 28 km in length from the gas terminal to the power plant in Ho Chi Minh;
Condensate pipe 6’’, 25 km in length to the Thi Vai Export Terminal.

Pipeline transmission capacity is 21 mcm per day.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## sweetgrape

NiceGuy said:


> U dont have any power left to force Phil to release ur poor fishermen.


Woo, Vietnam Navy and coast gurad is so "powerful", hehe!




NiceGuy said:


> diplomatic power can not help the Hong Kong victim in the bus incident, and the same thing will happen to ur poor fishermen specially ur Navy is got stuck with VN navy now.


You logic is very weird.


----------



## Kyle Sun

BoQ77 said:


> Then we know why Chinese citizens feel free to break the law, even in China mainland ...
> ----------
> * Why do Japanese people obey traffic laws? Chinese students give their opinion*
> 
> 
> 
> Paula Gerhold Aug 16, 2013
> 
> 
> 0
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On August 11, _Record China_ published an article based on essays written by Chinese students after their first visit to Japan. The piece, titled “How Japanese People Interpret Laws,” mainly focused on the students’ impressions of Japanese roadway rules and regulations and how strictly they are followed.”
> 
> Those readers who have had the chance to experience Japanese motorways might not have found the streets very safe at all. Narrow roads often mean narrow escapes from clogged intersections as pedestrians weave in-between eco-delivery bicyclists and taxi cabs. But compared to the hustle and bustle of mainland China, where the rules of the road mean every man for himself, Japan may very well seem an extremely tame, if not complacent, environment.
> 
> 
> Though the walking speed of Tokyoite salarymen during their morning rush came as a bit of a surprise, the Chinese school children were even more shocked to see how Japanese people followed traffic laws so faithfully. Even when there were no cars present, pedestrians remained in their proper place at the edge of the sidewalk and waited for their light to turn green.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But why do they wait their turn to cross when there is no present danger? While living and working in Japan, it’s a common sight to see young Japanese children heavily policed when crossing the road, whether by parents or teachers. In fact, it’s cute to see the little ones listen to their teachers’ advice and raise their hands when crossing any street so as to be more noticeable to drivers. But though traffic safety is indeed taught at a very early age in Japan, the same principles are taught to young Chinese children, as well. And yet, as they grow older, people in China ignore the crosswalk directions and go whenever and wherever they can find a space.
> 
> It’s not the traffic laws themselves, but rather the attitude toward and consciousness of rules in Japan that differs so distinctly from China. The _Record China_ report explained that Japanese people think of laws as things that are guided and enforced by the people, more so than even the government. They take it upon themselves to ensure that the rule of law is followed and take personal offense when someone violates that self-imposed responsibility. This sense of society, while impressive and truly inspiring in some ways, can also lead to tremendous pressure on the individual.
> 
> There’s a stereotype that Japanese people are incredibly humble and overly-apologetic. Sadly, there are definite, documented cases where this is true. During an incident a while back, a young Japanese traveler was kidnapped by terrorists in Iraq and killed. In the video that the terrorists recorded, the kidnapped boy apologized for “causing trouble.” Despite the horrific circumstances, the boy’s family was even publicly censured in Japan for their failure to take proper precautions and follow the laws set in place for their protection. In effect, the victims were pressured into apologizing for the incident due to the rigid sense of communal righteousness.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nowadays, Japan firmly believes that citizens who do not uphold the law of the land are tantamount to criminals themselves, according to the Chinese news source. Though the commentary might sound a bit harsh, it does bring up a valid point about Japanese society. Even as a foreigner living overseas, there are times when you can feel the watchful gaze of the people checking to see if you’re doing things in the correct and proper way. This tremendous social and mental pressure instilled within the Japanese populace and extended throughout all the people who live within its island borders, keeps people in line and on the sidewalk.
> -------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
> Chinese out of the law


WHere did you find so many english china news ?


----------



## xunzi

NiceGuy said:


> Thats what u wish, but Russia may not think the same , the drill maybe just some where near Hainan isl


You need to stop and join the China-Russia alliance, the East sphere so it balances out the West dominance.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

sweetgrape said:


> Busy? How busy?


Vietnam is now sending warships into the battlezone.

Pinoys are smart people. they know what to do now. otherwise we will encourage them a bit

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cnleio

Ukrain is close to Russia, Vietnam is close to China.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## xunzi

This is the US's fault. They are letting the Philippines too much freedom to behave aggressively. Our American friend needs to resolve this. Pressure the Philippine! Where is our American friend when you need them?


----------



## Knight of Tang

Well, the filipinos are totally out of there mind... it reminds me of an old saying "Those whom God wishes to destroy, he first makes mad."
Their wishful thinking about US' military aid was nothing but a joke, Ukrainians could tell...


----------



## Viet

sweetgrape said:


> Woo, Vietnam Navy and coast gurad is so "powerful", hehe!
> 
> You logic is very weird.


...more and more of our coast guard vessels are on the way

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Knight of Tang

Wow, warships...how scary...go on pushing yourself to hell, nobody's on your way home...


Viet said:


> Vietnam is now sending warships into the battlezone.
> 
> Pinoys are smart people. they know what to do now. otherwise we will encourage them a bit


----------



## Viet

Knight of Tang said:


> Wow, warships...how scary...go on pushing yourself to hell, nobody's on your way home...


you are the first one who sends warships and fighter jets into our water and airspace.

what would you do if you were Vietnam? nothing? surrender?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

S10 said:


> Sure Hanoi will be the new Manchuria.



You could visit Dong Da, your ancestor grave is there.



GeHAC said:


> You have no concept of civilizaton state,stupied question



what kind of civilization of China you kneed before invaders, accepted that Manchurian ruled you very long time. What Sun Ya Sian said ? "barbarian must drive back to Changbai mountain"



Edison Chen said:


> Hello, what's your name?



our name is Le, Li, Luo of ancient people, who original lived in south China and in southeast asia.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## sweetgrape

Viet said:


> Vietnam is now sending warships into the battlezone.
> Pinoys are smart people. they know what to do now. otherwise we will encourage them a bit


You sending warships there, so we are too busy to deal with Pinoys?
Pinoys are smart, I don't think so, encourage them? with what, weapon or word?






Viet said:


> ...more and more of our coast guard vessels are on the way


You want a race with China in quantity? great, hehe!


----------



## Khan_patriot

NiceGuy said:


> China navy is busy in the conflict with VN. China has No more power left to threaten Phil
> 
> Times for Phil to take back Scaborough shoal when China navy is got stuck around its oil rig


Are you on some Vietnamese hash or something.....


----------



## NiceGuy

Khan_patriot said:


> Are you on some Vietnamese hash or something.....


Some time , war happen between VN and China, thats so normal in the history . No Hash here. Its just the trend of history between us, but this time the PHIL get involve coz China bully them too


----------



## Krueger

*May 8,2014*






*China and other regional players have conflicting claims over areas of the South China Sea*


The Philippines on Wednesday detained 11 Chinese fishermen after seizing their boat in disputed waters. China has demanded their release.

The Philippines, Brunei, Malaysia, Vietnam and Taiwan all have overlapping claims with China in the South China Sea.

Wang Xiaopeng, a researcher with the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, notes that the incident took place after US President Barack Obama visited the Philippines last month.

He adds that Manila seems to be "testing the US through such provocation".

"Some US analysts have put it clearly that Washington will not take sides on the South China Sea issue and it will not fight for the Philippines over territorial disputes. It seems Manila is trying to find out what is the real position of the US," the Beijing Times quotes him as saying.

Echoing similar sentiments, Wu Shicun, president of the National Institute for South China Sea Studies, tells the Global Times that "Manila seems buoyed in taking on Beijing" after it signed a defence co-operation deal with Washington.

Washington and Manila signed a 10-year military pact last month which would allow a bigger US military presence in the country.

*Huang Shengyou, an expert on maritime issues, urges China to take a "more severe measure against the Philippines for its provocations".*

*"No matter how strong the support Manila is getting, Beijing has the ability to fight back… If the Philippines does not release the crew soon, China should retaliate and teach it a lesson," *he tells the Global Times' Chinese edition.

Meanwhile, the collision of ships from Vietnam and China in disputed waters is getting limited coverage in China's media outlets.

The vessels collided as the Vietnamese tried to prevent China from setting up an oil rig.

In contrast to the boat seizure by the Philippine authorities, coverage of the collision has been less prominent with fewer comments from experts and papers.

"Till now, we only get to hear the Vietnamese side of the story and not from the Chinese," says a news anchor on Yunnan Satellite TV.

Song Zhongping, a military affairs analyst, tells the TV network that "this is a serious provocation from Vietnam to challenge China's sovereignty rights".

*"There is a possibility that conflicts may take place if Vietnam continues with its provocative acts like sending warships into China's territorial waters," he warns.*

An article in the Zhonghua Net says "both Vietnam and the Philippines are deliberately forcing China to respond".

Anti-graft campaign
And finally, papers welcome a new deal that will allow countries like China to get more information from Switzerland on foreign bank accounts held by their citizens.

Switzerland on Tuesday joined the growing ranks of countries agreeing to share tax information in a major breakthrough against bank secrecy, Reuters news agency reports.

The country signed the Declaration on Automatic Exchange of Information in Tax Matters in Paris during an annual Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) meeting on Tuesday.

Financial experts interviewed by the China Daily say foreign banks that provide protection to clients are "most favoured" by corrupt Chinese officials who deposit their "ill-gotten gains" with them.

Experts believe the policy change by the Swiss authorities will benefit China's anti-graft campaign.

"It will become much easier for the Chinese authorities to collect information on overseas accounts relating to corrupt officials," Shen Minggao, head of China research at Citibank, tells the daily.

A commentary in the Beijing News adds that the new regulations have made it more difficult for people to evade taxes.

It suggests that the authorities should now "widen their efforts to inspect the overseas assets" of wealthy Chinese and corrupt officials.

BBC Monitoring_ reports and analyses news from TV, radio, web and print media around the world. For more reports from BBC Monitoring, _click here_. You can follow BBC Monitoring on _Twitter_ and _Facebook_._


----------



## xunzi

This seem very fishy indeed. Our fishermen fished there many times but only until Obama left, the Phillpines provocatively arrest them. This is definitely a tactic to test the US. This is why I said it the US's fault. They must resolve this!


----------



## Rechoice

aggressor has a big mouth.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Here is another official Russian media source.
> 
> So two official sources made the same error? Are you making fun of the Russian media or what?


they are news agencies. the contents could be inaccurate.

pls provide sources from the governments of Russia or China!

neither Voice of Russia nor Xinhua tells of SChina Sea, but EChina Sea.


----------



## BoQ77

It's time for Chinese people doubt about what state-run media said !!!
They would found Chinese govt lied to them such a long time ...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Beast

Oldman1 said:


> If all China can do is ramming, thats very encouraging. They didn't shoot because they cannot afford to go to war. This is nothing new between the U.S. and the Soviet Union at the time when ships rammed into each other. Consequences would be great. China knows that too.
> 
> Best to do is keep harassing and not let them get into position from drilling.


 
US is even worst. Talk but totally no action. Remember georgia and ukraine?


----------



## xunzi

BoQ77 said:


> It's time for Chinese people doubt about what state-run media said !!!
> They would found Chinese govt lied to them such a long time ...


Do you hear what our political scholars and analysts were saying? They are spot on and know the situation well. This is a tactic by the Philippine to test the US. We know this. Unfortunately we are putting in difficult position.


----------



## NiceGuy

xunzi said:


> You need to stop and join the China-Russia alliance, the East sphere so it balances out the West dominance.


But we need to solve the dispute in SCS(east sea) first, and war is the best choice. The loser will have to listen to the winner 

I think Russia will not stand on ur side in this conflict.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## GR!FF!N

Kyle Sun said:


> Talk your shit to Japanese.



another one from CCP's warning and advising department.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## BoQ77

*Mr. Daniel R. Russel -* The Assistant Secretary of State for East Asian and Pacific Affairs - in Hanoi US. Embassy now.
to answer international news agencies on US opinion about Chinese oil rig move !!!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

cnleio said:


> Ukrain is close to Russia, Vietnam is close to China.



Putin addressed the massage to Vietnam leader, say congratulations to Victory Day of Dien Bien Phu on 7/5.


----------



## Rechoice

xunzi said:


> Do you hear what our political scholars and analysts were saying? They are spot on and know the situation well. This is a tactic by the Philippine to test the US. We know this. Unfortunately we are putting in difficult position.



but one Chinese scholar Li Linh Hua said that China have respect EZZ of his neighbor country. You could find the article in Global Time in China.






Problem is that why propaganda in China do that ?
Học giả Trung Quốc: 'Cần tôn trọng thềm lục địa của các nước' - VnExpress


----------



## Grand Historian

Rechoice said:


> Our name was translated in to Han Zi. You can ask Editson Chan


Nope,Vietnamese Sinicized under Chinese rule and influence,you have only yourself to blame for your Chinese surnames.


----------



## KAL-EL

ViXuyen said:


> They nuke us and all the radiation falls back to them killing them all



My friend, there will be no nuking by anyone. That's just the belligerent talk of some members here. Members who in the real world, have absolutely no power to influence any military decisions. Only in their PDF fantasy land do they think they have control over anything. Nothing more than keyboard warriors.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Raphael

A lot delusional people can't accept the truth in this thread. Too bad they just got smacked down.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NiceGuy

Raphael said:


> A lot delusional people can't accept the truth in this thread. Too bad they just got smacked down.


Ur men also got smack down by Phil in SCS(east sea)at the same time


----------



## cirr

Glad to learn that our Vietnamese friends still look to their big brother Russia。

It is way better than acting as a running dog of the US。

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

LOL, If Russian joint-drill with Chinese on Paracel Islands, so they will become more madness than USA or any country in strategic moves.
You can dreaming still the day that drill will happen.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Edison Chen

Viet said:


> ok, you are right.
> 
> but if I google “Joint Sea-2014″, then I find this text:
> 
> China-Russia Joint Sea-2014 Naval Drill to Be Held on May | Strategic Intelligence News
> 
> The “Joint Sea-2014″ exercise in late May along the *East China Sea off Shanghai*, will mark the 65th birthday of the Chinese navy.



We changed mind, ok? We will show our muscle to you. My condolence to Vietnam.

Here is the source 中俄海军五月中期将在南海军演 有五大演练项目-搜狐军事频道

马尔托夫说：“5月中期俄罗斯军舰将取航上海，在那里与中国人民解放军海军参加‘海上协作-2014’大规模演习，演习将在南中国海举行。”

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Soryu

xunzi said:


> Russia needs to slam down hard on the Vietnamese head because they are stupidly supporting US's West led hegemony while China-Russia is trying very hard to create a multipolar world. Whether you Vietnamese wants it or not, your aggression against us meant you are making it more difficult for Russia-China to create a multipolar world and limit US's hegemony.


LOl, You shake hand with US in 1972 and backstabbing Vietnamese and now you accused Vietnam support USA hegemony !?
May be you living too long in America and got some their madness delusion ...
China - Vietnam relationship level is higher than US - Vietnam relationship.
Vietnamese agreed with Russian in many issue, but not talk big. Chinese's the same sometime, example is Ukraine crisis.



Edison Chen said:


> We changed mind, ok? We will show our muscle to you. My condolence to Vietnam.
> 
> Here is the source 中俄海军五月中期将在南海军演 有五大演练项目-搜狐军事频道
> 
> 马尔托夫说：“5月中期俄罗斯军舰将取航上海，在那里与中国人民解放军海军参加‘海上协作-2014’大规模演习，演习将在南中国海举行。”


LOL, Chinese media change as PRC Government said, so just wait for the drill ...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

Right ... keyboard warriors ...


----------



## NiceGuy

> *China-Vietnam sea incident not 'clash' - China vice foreign minister*
> BEIJING Thu May 8, 2014 8:07am BST
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Vietnamese naval soldier stands quard at Thuyen Chai island in the Spratly archipelago in this January 17, 2013 file picture.
> 
> CREDIT: REUTERS/QUANG LE/FILES
> 
> 
> (Reuters) - Chinese Vice Foreign Minister Cheng Guoping said on Thursday that China and Vietnam could resolve disputes at sea peacefully and that an incident between the countries earlier this week in a part of the disputed South China Sea was not a "clash".
> 
> Vietnam said on Wednesday a Chinese vessel intentionally rammed two of its ships in an area where Beijing has deployed a giant oil rig, sending tensions spiralling in the region.
> 
> Cheng made the comments to reporters on the sidelines of a forum in Beijing.
> 
> 
> 
> (Reporting by Ben Blanchard, Writing by Michael Martina)
> China-Vietnam sea incident not 'clash' - China vice foreign minister| Reuters



Okay, thats not a 'clash'. Pls pull ur oil rig back, its time for China to focus on their terrorist issue.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## TaiShang

NiceGuy said:


> Russia hasnt say that they will conduct the drill inside disputed zone yet. Dont be paranoid, dude



It does not matter whether in the disputed zone or not. If the exercise is held in the SCS, that's a very strong message by itself. Big countries often whisper whereas small ones can't win over the urge to bark at every instance.

Look at the PM of Turkey. he is like mad dog, barking at everybody, at home and abroad, in inverse proportion to the country's aggregate power. 

Vietnam, don't be a mad turkey; or a mad Phil.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Rechoice

Grand Historian said:


> Nope,Vietnamese Sinicized under Chinese rule and influence,you have only yourself to blame for your Chinese surnames.



nope.

our surname original from Le, Ly, Lao people , translated in to equivalent word to Han Zi only. Its popular in the world. 
Problem is we regained our dependence from China, but you Min Yue people can not.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## sweetgrape

NiceGuy said:


> Okay, thats not a 'clash'. Pls pull ur oil rig back, its time for China to focus on their terrorist issue.


Very weird logic, hehe!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NiceGuy

sweetgrape said:


> Very weird logic, hehe!


weird logic come from your incompetent Govt. . They should focus on protecting their citizen instead of poking their nose into our water

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Rechoice

cirr said:


> Glad to learn that our Vietnamese friends still look to their big brother Russia。
> 
> It is way better than acting as a running dog of the US。



What dog of US in 1979 attacked us. ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

xunzi said:


> *Russia* needs to slam down hard on the Vietnamese head because they are stupidly supporting US's West led hegemony while China-Russia is trying very hard to create a multipolar world. Whether you Vietnamese wants it or not, your aggression against us meant you are making it more difficult for Russia-China to *create a multipolar world *and limit US's hegemony.


NO, the Russians need to slap your face!

is it your idea with creating a multipolar world by putting an oil rig in our water and sending 80 vessels including 7 warships?

come on, you can admit you want to test our defence readiness.



Edison Chen said:


> We changed mind, ok? We will show our muscle to you. My condolence to Vietnam.
> 
> Here is the source 中俄海军五月中期将在南海军演 有五大演练项目-搜狐军事频道
> 
> 马尔托夫说：“5月中期俄罗斯军舰将取航上海，在那里与中国人民解放军海军参加‘海上协作-2014’大规模演习，演习将在南中国海举行。”


that is worthless.

provide quotes from either Russian or Chinese government officials!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## sweetgrape

NiceGuy said:


> weird logic come from your incompetent Govt. . They should focus on protecting their citizen instead of poking their nose into our water


From your comments, and in these day, you vietnamese in PDF jump up and down, find you are mad at the affair.
BTW, our incompetent Govt make you mad, that's encough, don't care whether our government are incompetent, care yours.


----------



## Grand Historian

Rechoice said:


> nope.
> 
> our surname original from Le, Ly, Lao people , translated in to equivalent word to Han Zi only. Its popular in the world.
> Problem is we regained our dependence from China, but you Min Yue people can not.


Are you kidding me,阮,陳,黎 etc are derived from Chinese surnames only a delusional fool will think otherwise.

I already debunked your various lies however your inability to digest sources is not my problem.


----------



## Viet

KAL-EL said:


> My friend, there will be no nuking by anyone. That's just the belligerent talk of some members here. Members who in the real world, have absolutely no power to influence any military decisions. Only in their PDF fantasy land do they think they have control over anything. Nothing more than keyboard warriors.


troll or not, really speaking, considering the imbalance of power, Vietnam should accquire nuclear deterrence. 
otherwise we would be constantly blackmailed.

a fleet of nuclear submarines would be very helpful.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## NiceGuy

TaiShang said:


> It does not matter whether in the disputed zone or not. If the exercise is held in the SCS, that's a very strong message by itself. Big countries often whisper whereas small ones can;t win over the urge to bark at every instance.
> 
> Look at the PM of Turkey. he is like mad dog, barking at everybody, at home and abroad, in inverse proportion to the countries aggregate power. Vietnam, don't be a mad turkey; or a mad Phil.


China is Big, but not a Strong country, even Phil can arrest Chinese and kill Chinese -TWse at any time they want.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Speeder 2

Whoever in the leadership of CPC or PLA military who ordered this oil rig circus should be executed for the reason of complete retardation at best, if not of traison! 

It has 0 strategic or tactic value, but huge negative impact instead since it pushes Vietnam towards "Asia Pivot". The best and the easiest strategy to deal with Vietnam is using economics. The solution should be aimed at mid term. A conflict with Vietnam is NOT in China's best interests at all for the forsseeable future.

However, Vietnam's leadership should not get too excited, cuz Vietnam is actually about 2-step away from becoming a full-blown "Ukraine" if it dreams in any way to play with fire using the regional inlfuence of the US to counter China. If that were the case, NOT the Chinese, NOT Americans, but the average Vietname citizens and Vietnam Communist Party, just like average Urkainians, will end up paying the dearest price of the game.

That said, Philippines however, is a complete ball game being an existing part of "Asia Pivot" and "1st island chain", unlike Vietnam. Despite of some pretty military pact just signed with the US, Philipines actually should be the ONLY, THE MOST URGENT tartget of PLA.

Taking back all those Phillipine-invaded islets in SCS all at once is well-within PLA Navy's capablity, and should be PLA's only and most urgent task, in my view. It is a free lunch. It is also morally sound due to Phillipine's recent provocations. The timing is also perfect. If China takes this easy step instead of useless water cannon shows with Vietnam, China can settle both "Asia Pivot" and SCS issue (at least for the mid term) in one go. Forget about the US in the process, it will NOT touch a thing of PLA.

If Vietnam is in danger of becoming a self-made "Ukraine" by its blind and pointless "nationalism" , then Philippines is in fact already a self-made "Georgia" waiting to be fcuked, can't you see?


----------



## Soryu

Chinese back down:



> *China urges talks, says no 'clash' with Vietnam*
> (Reuters) - China on Thursday rejected Vietnamese claims it acted aggressively in the South China Sea and called for a peaceful end to a bitter row sparked by Beijing's parking of a giant oil rig in contested waters.
> 
> Chinese Vice Foreign Minister Cheng Guoping said no "clash" had taken place since the dispute erupted at the weekend. He was responding to Vietnam's assertions that Chinese vessels used water cannon and intentionally rammed eight of its ships, seriously damaging two, and wounding six sailors.
> 
> "I don't believe there was a clash. I think this was a difference of opinion on some disputes," Cheng told reporters on the sidelines of a forum in Beijing.
> 
> "The area in dispute is Chinese territory and of course we will maintain the country's core interests and defend our sovereignty. Vietnam should know this," Cheng said, adding that the two countries can resolve disputes through "peaceful talks".
> 
> "This dispute is not about the entire relationship between China and Vietnam. It's localized. It is controllable."
> 
> The two Communist nations have sought to put aside border disputes and memories of a brief border war in 1979. Vietnam is usually careful about comments against China, for which it relies on for political support and bilateral trade that surpassed $50 billion in 2013.
> 
> Still, Hanoi has strongly condemned the operation of the drilling rig, the first such action by Beijing in contested waters, and told the owners, China's state-run oil company CNOOC, to remove it.
> 
> China has parked about 80 ships around the rig, Vietnamese officials have said, adding that seven of them were military. Its foreign ministry on Wednesday showed reporters what it said were video clips of Chinese ships hitting Vietnamese Seaguard vessels.
> 
> Hanoi has also hinted at international legal action and said it had requested dialogue with China's leadership, but was awaiting a response.
> 
> Daniel Russel, the U.S. Assistant Secretary of State for East Asia and Pacific, reiterated Washington's concerns about "dangerous conduct and intimidation by vessels" in the disputed area. He met senior Vietnamese leaders on Thursday and said the row had been discussed at length.
> 
> "It's fair to say both Vietnam and China have rights to claim sovereignty over the Paracels (islands)," Russel told reporters in Hanoi.
> 
> "It is not for the U.S. to say which position is stronger. It's within the rights of the United States and the international community to call all parties to address the dispute in a peaceful way."
> 
> ROW ROCKS VIETNAM MARKETS
> 
> The row with its neighbor sent Vietnam's stocks markets plummeting on Thursday. The benchmark VN Index in Ho Chi Minh City closed down 5.9 percent, its biggest one-day fall in nearly 13 years, while the smaller Hanoi bourse dropped 6.4 percent, its biggest slump since May 2010.
> 
> The country's State Securities Commission issued a statement urging investors to respond rationally to news about the dispute.
> 
> "We suggest investors stay calm, careful and avoid being taken advantage of," it said, without elaborating.
> 
> The row comes days after U.S. President Barack Obama visited Asia to underline his commitment to allies including Japan and the Philippines, both locked in territorial disputes with China.
> 
> Obama, promoting a strategic "pivot" towards the Asia-Pacific, also visited South Korea and Malaysia, but not China. Washington has been trying to court Vietnam as a new ally in the region with trade and military incentives, ostensibly to lessen Hanoi's uneasy dependence on Beijing.
> 
> However, regional military and diplomatic sources who have been briefed on U.S. navy movements said Washington had not deployed any warships close to the disputed area, although routine surveillance flights over the South China Sea were on-going.
> 
> Tensions are also brewing in another part of the sea, with Beijing demanding that the Philippines release a Chinese fishing boat and its crew seized on Tuesday off Half Moon Shoal in the Spratly Islands.
> 
> Philippine police said the boat and its crew were seized for hunting sea turtles, which are protected under local laws.
> 
> In Hanoi, Vietnamese officials said diplomats from both sides had met six times since Sunday to defuse the row but insisted Vietnam would stand up to any Chinese aggression in the energy-rich waters.
> 
> Tran Cong Truc, a former head of the national border committee of Vietnam, said his country was now in a tricky spot, as China had infringed on not just its territory, but its economic assets.
> 
> Vietnam's recent history, he said, had shown it was not worth picking a fight with.
> 
> "Vietnam is a peace loving country, but don't wake up the dragon," he said. "We never want war but it all depends on whether China wants to start a war in the region or not."
> 
> (Additional reporting by Greg Torode in Hong Kong; Writing by Michael Martina and Martin Petty; Editing by Raju Gopalakrishnan)

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

Chinese back down now:



> *China urges talks, says no 'clash' with Vietnam*
> 
> (Reuters) - China on Thursday rejected Vietnamese claims it acted aggressively in the South China Sea and called for a peaceful end to a bitter row sparked by Beijing's parking of a giant oil rig in contested waters.
> 
> Chinese Vice Foreign Minister Cheng Guoping said no "clash" had taken place since the dispute erupted at the weekend. He was responding to Vietnam's assertions that Chinese vessels used water cannon and intentionally rammed eight of its ships, seriously damaging two, and wounding six sailors.
> 
> "I don't believe there was a clash. I think this was a difference of opinion on some disputes," Cheng told reporters on the sidelines of a forum in Beijing.
> 
> "The area in dispute is Chinese territory and of course we will maintain the country's core interests and defend our sovereignty. Vietnam should know this," Cheng said, adding that the two countries can resolve disputes through "peaceful talks".
> 
> "This dispute is not about the entire relationship between China and Vietnam. It's localized. It is controllable."
> 
> The two Communist nations have sought to put aside border disputes and memories of a brief border war in 1979. Vietnam is usually careful about comments against China, for which it relies on for political support and bilateral trade that surpassed $50 billion in 2013.
> 
> Still, Hanoi has strongly condemned the operation of the drilling rig, the first such action by Beijing in contested waters, and told the owners, China's state-run oil company CNOOC, to remove it.
> 
> China has parked about 80 ships around the rig, Vietnamese officials have said, adding that seven of them were military. Its foreign ministry on Wednesday showed reporters what it said were video clips of Chinese ships hitting Vietnamese Seaguard vessels.
> 
> Hanoi has also hinted at international legal action and said it had requested dialogue with China's leadership, but was awaiting a response.
> 
> Daniel Russel, the U.S. Assistant Secretary of State for East Asia and Pacific, reiterated Washington's concerns about "dangerous conduct and intimidation by vessels" in the disputed area. He met senior Vietnamese leaders on Thursday and said the row had been discussed at length.
> 
> "It's fair to say both Vietnam and China have rights to claim sovereignty over the Paracels (islands)," Russel told reporters in Hanoi.
> 
> "It is not for the U.S. to say which position is stronger. It's within the rights of the United States and the international community to call all parties to address the dispute in a peaceful way."
> 
> ROW ROCKS VIETNAM MARKETS
> 
> The row with its neighbor sent Vietnam's stocks markets plummeting on Thursday. The benchmark VN Index in Ho Chi Minh City closed down 5.9 percent, its biggest one-day fall in nearly 13 years, while the smaller Hanoi bourse dropped 6.4 percent, its biggest slump since May 2010.
> 
> The country's State Securities Commission issued a statement urging investors to respond rationally to news about the dispute.
> 
> "We suggest investors stay calm, careful and avoid being taken advantage of," it said, without elaborating.
> 
> The row comes days after U.S. President Barack Obama visited Asia to underline his commitment to allies including Japan and the Philippines, both locked in territorial disputes with China.
> 
> Obama, promoting a strategic "pivot" towards the Asia-Pacific, also visited South Korea and Malaysia, but not China. Washington has been trying to court Vietnam as a new ally in the region with trade and military incentives, ostensibly to lessen Hanoi's uneasy dependence on Beijing.
> 
> However, regional military and diplomatic sources who have been briefed on U.S. navy movements said Washington had not deployed any warships close to the disputed area, although routine surveillance flights over the South China Sea were on-going.
> 
> Tensions are also brewing in another part of the sea, with Beijing demanding that the Philippines release a Chinese fishing boat and its crew seized on Tuesday off Half Moon Shoal in the Spratly Islands.
> 
> Philippine police said the boat and its crew were seized for hunting sea turtles, which are protected under local laws.
> 
> In Hanoi, Vietnamese officials said diplomats from both sides had met six times since Sunday to defuse the row but insisted Vietnam would stand up to any Chinese aggression in the energy-rich waters.
> 
> Tran Cong Truc, a former head of the national border committee of Vietnam, said his country was now in a tricky spot, as China had infringed on not just its territory, but its economic assets.
> 
> Vietnam's recent history, he said, had shown it was not worth picking a fight with.
> 
> "Vietnam is a peace loving country, but don't wake up the dragon," he said. "We never want war but it all depends on whether China wants to start a war in the region or not."
> 
> (Additional reporting by Greg Torode in Hong Kong; Writing by Michael Martina and Martin Petty; Editing by Raju Gopalakrishnan)

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Rechoice

Huan said:


> That is back in the 90's. This is now. China is much stronger.



then can do idiot thing ?


----------



## Soryu

sweetgrape said:


> From your comments, and in these day, you vietnamese in PDF jump up and down, find you are mad at the affair.
> BTW, our incompetent Govt make you mad, that's encough, don't care whether our government are incompetent, care yours.


Nope, PRC Government making Chinese delusion boys gone mad and jump up and down in every Chinese froum when they back down from our water.
Chinese big mouth members should try to calm, don't let emotion make you upset and go mad.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Soryu

Beast said:


> You can see all the vietnam troll start insulting others when they known they cant beat China. Rest in peace vietnam.


Yeah, but China backdown now, they want peace talk.

China urges talks, says no 'clash' with Vietnam| Reuters

You want a war !? Go ahead! I hope you're not end up in PRC prison

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Krueger

*TIME | David Stout






In this photo, released by the Vietnamese Coast Guard, a Chinese ship, left, shoots water cannon at a Vietnamese vessel, right, while a Chinese Coast Guard ship, center, sails alongside in the South China Sea off Vietnam's coast, Wednesday, May 7, 2014. Chinese ships rammed and sprayed water cannon at Vietnamese vessels trying to stop Beijing from setting up an oil rig in the area, according to Vietnamese officials and video evidence.*

*As Beijing appears to be openly enforcing territorial claims in the South China Sea, following a skirmish with Vietnam over a Chinese oil rig that left six people injured, one expert says a historic "moment of confrontation" has arrived*

Supposedly fraternal ties between China and Vietnam failed to keep hostilities from bubbling to the surface this week, when vessels from both nations tangled near a Chinese oil rig that Hanoi claims is planning to illegally drill into the country’s continental shelf.

At least six people were injured during the skirmish on May 7, after Chinese vessels used water cannon on, and rammed into, Vietnamese craft that Hanoi had dispatched to prevent drilling from going ahead.

The deep-sea drilling platform is currently in the middle of fiercely contested waters south of the Paracel Archipelago, which is claimed by Vietnam, but has been occupied by China since its forces violently expelled a garrison stationed there by the old South Vietnamese regime in 1974.

According to Vietnamese officials, approximately 80 Chinese ships, including several naval vessels, are accompanying the rig. Displaying unusual openness, authorities in Hanoi held a press conference on Wednesday, where they showed foreign journalists video evidence of the naval encounter.

“Our maritime police and fishing protection forces have practiced extreme restraint,” Ngo Ngoc Thu, vice commander of Vietnam’s coast guard, told reporters during a press conference in Hanoi, according to the Associated Press. “We will continue to hold on there. But if [the Chinese ships] continue to ram into us, we will respond with similar self-defense.”

The weekend’s incident is the most violent confrontation to erupt between the socialist neighbors since a brief naval engagement in 1988 near the Spratly Islands left more than 60 Vietnamese sailors dead.

China has long-held claims over most of the South China Sea — in areas that are also claimed by Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei and the Philippines — but in recent years has become far more assertive in pursuing its territorial ambitions.

A strongly worded column in China’s _Global Times_ newspaper on Tuesday stated that China should give Vietnam the “lesson it deserves.” The rhetoric closely mirrors the threat made by former Chinese Premier Deng Xiaoping ahead of the People’s Liberation Army’s disastrous invasion of Vietnam in 1979.

“The moment of confrontation has arrived,” Jonathan D. London, a professor and Vietnamese scholar at Hong Kong’s City University, told TIME.
*“We’re shifting from an extended period in which Beijing has asserted very grandiose claims over these maritime areas to a stage in which Beijing is taking concrete measures to enforce these claims.”*

On Wednesday, the U.S. State Department condemned China actions and called on all parties to refrain from “dangerous conduct.”

*“This unilateral action appears to be part of a broader pattern of Chinese behavior to advance its claims over disputed territory in a manner that undermines peace and stability in the region,” s*aid State Department spokesperson Jen Psaki in a statement released Wednesday.

Vietnam’s ruling Communist Party is now faced with the delicate task of confronting China over the issue — doing so with sufficient assertiveness to placate nationalist anger at home, and yet not risk all-out enmity with the country’s biggest trading partner.

“It’s not just a matter of the claims being important in themselves, but I think it’s because they involve contention with China that they are particularly important from a Vietnamese perspective, ” Tim Huxley, executive director of the International Institute for Strategic Studies’ Asia office, told TIME. “I think it’s true to say this resistance to Chinese domination has historically been an important factor in the forging of Vietnam’s sense of nationhood.’’

Meanwhile, Beijing appears to be holding firm on its current course of action.

In another forceful column Wednesday, the _Global Times_ warned countries in the region from hoping that the U.S. could serve as a “big daddy” in any future conflict in the region. “China has more confidence than ever to face the U.S. in the South China Sea chessboard,” it warned.

The publication of the column comes more than a week after U.S. President Barack Obama concluded a four-nation trip to the region. While in the Philippines, President Obama signed the Enhanced Defense Cooperation Agreement with Manila that will allow U.S. forces to increase their presence in the country.

*In the South China Sea, China Is Already Acting Like a Superpower | TIME*

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## TaiShang

NiceGuy said:


> China is Big, but not a Strong country, even Phil can arrest Chinese and kill Chinese -TWse at any time they want.



The Phil apologized. The Phil leader himself, personally. And our TW was on the brink of deporting all Phil maids and all that. 

That's why Taiwanese fishing boats now raises the five-star flag when they sail into the conflict zones. And Chinese Coast Guard often pays visit, to scare off the Phil pirates.

Such incident happens once more, Chinese Taipei will deal with the Phil immediately and China will make the area no-sail zone for the Phil boats.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Krueger

*Philippines ignores China demand to free fishermen*
(Associated Press) | Updated May 8, 2014 





Philippine National Police Maritime Group director, Chief Superintendent Noel Lazarus Vargas addresses the media during a news conference on the police' arrest of Chinese fishermen at one of the disputed Shoals, the Half Moon Shoal, off the South China Sea Thursday, May 8, 2014 at the police headquarters at Camp Crame northeast of Manila, Philippines. *AP/Bullit Marquez*

MANILA, Philippines — The Philippine National Police chief says the government will investigate 11 Chinese fishermen to see if they illegally entered the country or committed other crimes, ignoring China's demand for them to be immediately released.

China pressed the Philippines to release the fishermen and their boat, warning Manila Thursday not to take any more "provocative actions so as to avoid further damage to the bilateral relations."

Asked if the Philippines will heed China's demand, national police chief Alan Purisima says the fishermen will be investigated to determine if they illegally entered the country and committed other crimes such as poaching.






Philippine police took the fishermen and their boat into custody Tuesday in a disputed South China Sea shoal, adding the vessel was loaded with more than 350 endangered green sea turtle.

It is the latest territorial spat between the two Asian nations, which have had increasingly tense disputes over two shoals and other areas of the South China Sea.

China earlier said via state media that Chinese officials lost contact with 11 fishermen after they were intercepted by armed men near Half Moon Shoal not far from the Philippines.

The shoal, called Hasa Hasa in the Philippines, is claimed by China as part of the Nansha island chain, known internationally as the Spratly Islands. The Spratlys are a major cluster of potentially oil- and gas-rich islands and reefs long disputed by China, the Philippines, Taiwan, Malaysia, Vietnam and Brunei.

China lays claim to virtually the entire South China Sea and is locked in an increasingly heated dispute with the Philippines, Vietnam and others over rights to energy resources, fishing grounds and island outposts.

In Washington, State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki said the U.S. had seen reports that Philippine police have seized Chinese and Philippine fishing boats carrying illegally harvested sea turtles about 60 miles (96 kilometers) off the coast of the Philippines, and detained their crews. She urged both sides to work together diplomatically, and voiced U.S. concern that the vessels appeared to have been engaged in direct harvest of endangered species.

Vargas said the Chinese boat will be taken to the western Philippine province of Palawan, about 110 kilometers (70 miles) from Half Moon Shoal, and the fishermen will face charges of violating Philippine laws prohibiting catches of endangered green sea turtles.

Another boat with Philippine fishermen was also caught in the area with 70 turtles aboard, and those fishermen will face the same charges, Vargas said.

China's official Xinhua News Agency said the Chinese fishermen's vessel was intercepted on Tuesday by armed men who fired warning shots in the air. An official from the Fishing Port Monitoring Center at Tanmen in China's Hainan province confirmed the report. He said he had no other details and declined to give his name, as is common among Chinese bureaucrats.

A Chinese frigate became stuck in the shallows of Half Moon Shoal while on a security patrol in 2012, prompting China to send rescue vessels. 

*Philippines ignores China demand to free fishermen*


----------



## Rechoice

This is action of invaders.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Beast

Soryu said:


> Yeah, but China backdown now, they want peace talk.
> 
> China urges talks, says no 'clash' with Vietnam| Reuters
> 
> You want a war !? Go ahead! I hope you're not end up in PRC prison


 
No, oil is there.


----------



## dray

China is turning out to be the biggest bully on this planet, extremely unfortunate & irresponsible behavior from a country that aspires to become a superpower.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Rechoice

Beast said:


> No, oil is there.



we known it from long time. Why china did that ? its dirty intention.


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

Uh, no. 

The current superpower America invaded 3 separate countries in the past decade alone. Leading to a million civilian deaths in the Iraq War ALONE (the one about invisible WMD).

We on the other hand have not had any wars for over three decades.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Rechoice

Speeder 2 said:


> Whoever in the leadership of CPC or PLA military who ordered this oil rig circus should be executed for the reason of complete retardation at best, if not of traison!
> 
> It has 0 strategic or tactic value, but huge negative impact instead since it pushes Vietnam towards "Asia Pivot". The best and the easiest strategy to deal with Vietnam is using economics. The solution should be aimed at mid term. A conflict with Vietnam is NOT in China's best interests at all for the forsseeable future.
> 
> However, Vietnam's leadership should not get too excited, cuz Vietnam is actually about 2-step away from becoming a full-blown "Ukraine" if it dreams in any way to play with fire using the regional inlfuence of the US to counter China. If that were the case, NOT the Chinese, NOT Americans, but the average Vietname citizens and Vietnam Communist Party, just like average Urkainians, will end up paying the dearest price of the game.
> 
> That said, Philippines however, is a complete ball game being an existing part of "Asia Pivot" and "1st island chain", unlike Vietnam. Despite of some pretty military pact just signed with the US, Philipines actually should be the ONLY, THE MOST URGENT tartget of PLA.
> 
> Taking back all those Phillipine-invaded islets in SCS all at once is well-within PLA Navy's capablity, and should be PLA's only and most urgent task, in my view. It is a free lunch. It is also morally sound due to Phillipine's recent provocations. The timing is also perfect. If China takes this easy step instead of useless water cannon shows with Vietnam, China can settle both "Asia Pivot" and SCS issue (at least for the mid term) in one go. Forget about the US in the process, it will NOT touch a thing of PLA.
> 
> If Vietnam is in danger of becoming a self-made "Ukraine" by its blind and pointless "nationalism" , then Philippines is in fact already a self-made "Georgia" waiting to be fcuked, can't you see?



Its miscalculation of China, in long term or short term. It s showing true face China.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TheNoob

When US invades and destory countrys by lying...
its all O K.

But when China or Russia does something with no bloodshed.
Their the bully.


Freakin stupid logic people go by these days.....

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## sweetgrape

Soryu said:


> Nope, PRC Government making Chinese delusion boys gone mad and jump up and down in every Chinese froum when they back down from our water.
> Chinese big mouth members should try to calm, don't let emotion make you upset and go mad.


Oh, hehe, Vietnamese!!


----------



## volatile

DRAY said:


> China is turning out to be the biggest bully on this planet, extremely unfortunate & irresponsible behavior from a country that aspires to become a superpower.



Yea Right and what about India Bulling its neighbours?

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Raphael

We are not a shupa powaa. Please reserve this term for the USA and its emulators.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## dray

volatile said:


> Yea Right and what about India Bulling its neighbours?




When?



Chinese-Dragon said:


> Uh, no.
> 
> The current superpower America invaded 3 separate countries in the past decade alone. Leading to a million civilian deaths in the Iraq War ALONE (the one about invisible WMD).
> 
> We on the other hand have not had any wars for over three decades.



It is just because China doesn't have such capabilities yet, when they will have it, they will be far more aggressive and uncontrollable than any other country, as they say, "Morning shows the day".


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

DRAY said:


> *It is just because China doesn't have such capabilities yet, when they have it, they will be far more aggressive and uncontrollable than any other country, as they say, "Morning shows the day".*



Well, maybe you will be proved right, and China will go to war with India again?

Only if India summons up the courage to eject our soldiers though, which they haven't yet managed to do. 

They only manage to capitulate:

Indian troops suspend patrols at Chumar - The Times of India



> *NEW DELHI: Apart from dismantling a SET of strategically-located bunkers at Chumar as part of an arrangement to end the standoff at Depsang Bulge in eastern Ladakh, the Indian troops seem to have suspended patrols to the Line of Actual Control (LAC) in Chumar, at least for now. Senior officials briefed by personnel on the ground said the Army has discontinued the round-the-clock patrolling it was undertaking in the area for the last few months.*



Until then, we can say "We haven't had any wars for over 30 years", thus claims of "warmongering" or "acting like a superpower" are laughable at best.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## dray

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Well, maybe you will be proved right, and China will go to war with India again?
> 
> Only if India summons up the courage to eject our soldiers though, which they haven't yet managed to do.
> 
> They only manage to capitulate:
> 
> Indian troops suspend patrols at Chumar - The Times of India
> 
> 
> Until then, we can say "We haven't had any wars for over 30 years", thus claims of "warmongering" or "acting like a superpower" are laughable at best.



Don't worry, we will be prepared this time, we can't be back stabbed twice.


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

DRAY said:


> Don't worry, we will be prepared this time, we can't be back stabbed twice.



Funny, since it was India who backstabbed China, and it was India who declared the 1962 War. 

It wasn't China, but Nehru who declared 1962 war - The Times of India

You attacked us while we were in the middle of the worst famine in our history, and still you lost.

And some more bad news for you, the balance of power today has shifted ENORMOUSLY in our favour. Even India's own Naval Chief admitted that India could never hope to match China, and the gap was growing bigger every day.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## DarkElf

volatile said:


> Yea Right and what about India Bulling its neighbours?





TheNoob said:


> When US invades and destory countrys by lying...
> its all O K.
> 
> But when China *India* or Russia does something with no bloodshed.
> Their the bully.
> 
> 
> Freakin stupid logic people go by these days.....



*add India on the list


----------



## Edison Chen

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Funny, since it was India who backstabbed China, and it was India who declared the 1962 War.
> 
> It wasn't China, but Nehru who declared 1962 war - The Times of India
> 
> You attacked us while we were in the middle of the worst famine in our history, and still you lost.



They always poke China, and pretends to be innocent. I just can't understand what the hell can we get if China annexes India. We don't need anything from them.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## dray

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Funny, since it was India who backstabbed China, and it was India who declared the 1962 War.
> 
> It wasn't China, but Nehru who declared 1962 war - The Times of India
> 
> You attacked us while we were in the middle of the worst famine in our history, and still you lost.
> 
> And some more bad news for you, the balance of power today has shifted ENORMOUSLY in our favour. Even India's own Naval Chief admitted that India could never hope to match China, and the gap was growing bigger every day.



And these threads conclusively proved that it was not Nehru, but China who was the aggressor. 

It wasn't China, but Nehru who declared 1962 war: Australian journalist Neville Maxwell | Page 6

Lt-General Thorat's 1962 China warning fell on deaf ears.


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

DRAY said:


> And these threads conclusively proved that it was not Nehru, but China who was the aggressor.
> 
> It wasn't China, but Nehru who declared 1962 war: Australian journalist Neville Maxwell | Page 6
> 
> Lt-General Thorat's 1962 China warning fell on deaf ears.



Apparently you haven't read those threads then.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## bolo

ViXuyen said:


> I'm all for these chinaclowns to impose "sanction" on us. They are earning $24 billion usd of trade surplus from us each year; that's an equivalent of 1/10 of the trade surplus that they earn from America.


 
You are a joke and a liar kid.

http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5700.html



Speeder 2 said:


> Whoever in the leadership of CPC or PLA military who ordered this oil rig circus should be executed for the reason of complete retardation at best, if not of traison!
> 
> It has 0 strategic or tactic value, but huge negative impact instead since it pushes Vietnam towards "Asia Pivot". The best and the easiest strategy to deal with Vietnam is using economics. The solution should be aimed at mid term. A conflict with Vietnam is NOT in China's best interests at all for the forsseeable future.
> 
> However, Vietnam's leadership should not get too excited, cuz Vietnam is actually about 2-step away from becoming a full-blown "Ukraine" if it dreams in any way to play with fire using the regional inlfuence of the US to counter China. If that were the case, NOT the Chinese, NOT Americans, but the average Vietname citizens and Vietnam Communist Party, just like average Urkainians, will end up paying the dearest price of the game.
> 
> That said, Philippines however, is a complete ball game being an existing part of "Asia Pivot" and "1st island chain", unlike Vietnam. Despite of some pretty military pact just signed with the US, Philipines actually should be the ONLY, THE MOST URGENT tartget of PLA.
> 
> Taking back all those Phillipine-invaded islets in SCS all at once is well-within PLA Navy's capablity, and should be PLA's only and most urgent task, in my view. It is a free lunch. It is also morally sound due to Phillipine's recent provocations. The timing is also perfect. If China takes this easy step instead of useless water cannon shows with Vietnam, China can settle both "Asia Pivot" and SCS issue (at least for the mid term) in one go. Forget about the US in the process, it will NOT touch a thing of PLA.
> 
> If Vietnam is in danger of becoming a self-made "Ukraine" by its blind and pointless "nationalism" , then Philippines is in fact already a self-made "Georgia" waiting to be fcuked, can't you see?


 
I can't figure out the thinking of Chinese military leadership. If PLA believe they are militarily not strong enough, than they have to use deceit and make the world think they are strong just like India even though they are weak. Two, if they are militarily strong and allow weak nations to push them around, than the leadership lack will.

Imo, I think they want to take military action but at the same time do not want to risk damaging their economy. Mistresses, putting your kids to private school, and buying foreign mansions cost a lot of money.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TaiShang

DRAY said:


> China is turning out to be the biggest bully on this planet, extremely unfortunate & irresponsible behavior from a country that aspires to become a superpower.



These are systemic spasms, so to speak, my friend. "The old is dying and the new cannot be born," Gramsci said. The new is bound to be born, as it seems. There will be resistance as the power shifts. Growth in power is itself an act of aggression to the nature of things since it disturbs harmony. But it "cannot not" happen.



Chinese-Dragon said:


> Uh, no.
> 
> The current superpower America invaded 3 separate countries in the past decade alone. Leading to a million civilian deaths in the Iraq War ALONE (the one about invisible WMD).
> 
> We on the other hand have not had any wars for over three decades.



Yes. All we do is wash Vietnamese sailors clean for free.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## bolo

Edison Chen said:


> They always poke China, and pretends to be innocent. I just can't understand what the hell can we get if China annexes India. We don't need anything from them.


 
Even if China can, do you really want to educate, feed and civilize 1 billion people?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## dray

TaiShang said:


> These are systemic spasms, so to speak, my friend. "The old is dying and the new cannot be born," Gramsci said. The new is bound to born, as it seems. There will be resistance as the power shifts. Growth in power is itself an act of aggression to the nature of things since it disturbs harmony. But it "cannot not" happen.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes. All we do is wash Vietnamese sailors clean for free.



The old is not going anywhere mate, they gonna be there for a long long time to come. 



bolo said:


> Even if China can, do you really want to educate, feed and civilize 1 billion people?



Especially when you have a lot of people to educate, feed, and civilize in your own country.


----------



## SrNair

DRAY said:


> China is turning out to be the biggest bully on this planet, extremely unfortunate & irresponsible behavior from a country that aspires to become a superpower.



In SCS area they are now Superpower .It is a fact.It is other countries in that area to Counter Chinese influence.


----------



## Raphael

Speeder 2 said:


> Whoever in the leadership of CPC or PLA military who ordered this oil rig circus should be executed for the reason of complete retardation at best, if not of traison!
> 
> It has 0 strategic or tactic value, but huge negative impact instead since it pushes Vietnam towards "Asia Pivot". The best and the easiest strategy to deal with Vietnam is using economics. The solution should be aimed at mid term. A conflict with Vietnam is NOT in China's best interests at all for the forsseeable future.
> 
> However, Vietnam's leadership should not get too excited, cuz Vietnam is actually about 2-step away from becoming a full-blown "Ukraine" if it dreams in any way to play with fire using the regional inlfuence of the US to counter China. If that were the case, NOT the Chinese, NOT Americans, but the average Vietname citizens and Vietnam Communist Party, just like average Urkainians, will end up paying the dearest price of the game.
> 
> That said, Philippines however, is a complete ball game being an existing part of "Asia Pivot" and "1st island chain", unlike Vietnam. Despite of some pretty military pact just signed with the US, Philipines actually should be the ONLY, THE MOST URGENT tartget of PLA.
> 
> Taking back all those Phillipine-invaded islets in SCS all at once is well-within PLA Navy's capablity, and should be PLA's only and most urgent task, in my view. It is a free lunch. It is also morally sound due to Phillipine's recent provocations. The timing is also perfect. If China takes this easy step instead of useless water cannon shows with Vietnam, China can settle both "Asia Pivot" and SCS issue (at least for the mid term) in one go. Forget about the US in the process, it will NOT touch a thing of PLA.
> 
> If Vietnam is in danger of becoming a self-made "Ukraine" by its blind and pointless "nationalism" , then Philippines is in fact already a self-made "Georgia" waiting to be fcuked, can't you see?



Here's an article speculating about China's intentions:
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/CHIN-02-080514.html

The author thinks China is just practising on Vietnam. But the real target is the Philippines.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## SrNair

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Funny, since it was India who backstabbed China, and it was India who declared the 1962 War.
> 
> It wasn't China, but Nehru who declared 1962 war - The Times of India
> 
> You attacked us while we were in the middle of the worst famine in our history, and still you lost.
> 
> And some more bad news for you, the balance of power today has shifted ENORMOUSLY in our favour. Even India's own Naval Chief admitted that India could never hope to match China, and the gap was growing bigger every day.



Well you are wrong.An outsider might seems due to economic clout and numbers PRC can easily take on India.But that is one hell of the mistake if you dare to do that.It is true we show some restrain in April because now we are concentrated in our economy but you cant ensure it will be same in all time.
Skirmishes in 1967 and 1987 shows another history.
It was right Nehru did a mistake by making forward posts with out sufficient arms and ammos.But China also did the same mistake by threatning India when it was just an infant democracy and a nation .You did that because you knew you can win.
And you got an irritant neighbour,otherwise you might get a good friendly neighbour .Some Chinese in these PDF boast India is cant stand against China .But you are wrong.I think a TTA can agree with that dynamics
You try the same thing in 1967 and 1987 but cant move further.Pakistan also give a good opportunity in 1999 also but some how ,reasons knows only to China you dont attack us .Instead you asked Pakistan to stay back.
When it comes to field operation it will be not that easy to attack India.To attack India in Indian Ocean you need a Navy that equals to USN.Only chance is PLAAF but India is not Iraq or Afghanistan.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## DT1010

sweetgrape said:


> Oh, hehe, Vietnamese!!


Don't act as a knowing cool guy! ok


----------



## bolo

Soryu said:


> Nope, PRC Government making Chinese delusion boys gone mad and jump up and down in every Chinese froum when they back down from our water.
> Chinese big mouth members should try to calm, don't let emotion make you upset and go mad.


Back down? the rig is still there right? You should thank the PLA for cleaning your dirty boats with water gun.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## TaiShang

bolo said:


> Back down? the rig is still there right? You should thank the PLA for cleaning your dirty boats with water gun.



Next time Chinese Coast Guard should use oil-gun to clean of the rust and grease on the Vietnamese antics.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## TaiShang

That will be another ADIZ moment. Clowns will get excited and jump up and down. A week, two weeks into the event, it will be the new reality. 

That's an extremely smart play, coming right after Obama's Asia tour. I guess China is giving silent warnings to the Phil using the Viet. There goes all the hot air Obama left behind. Plus, Russia has been keeping the Yankee monkeys busy. Right time to make a move and change the status quo.

About generals making this or that decision for personal gain as *bolo* mentions above, first of all, this should be proven, otherwise, it is a libel. Second, wars make some people rich, indeed. All US wars made some rich while left others dead. But it is beyond moronic to claim that a nation's key strategies are sacrificed for personal gains.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## bolo

TaiShang said:


> That will be another ADIZ moment. Clowns will get excited and jump up and down. A week, two weeks into the event, it will be the new reality.
> 
> That's an extremely smart play, coming right after Obama's Asia tour. I guess China is giving silent warnings to the Phil using the Viet. There goes all the hot air Obama left behind. Plus, Russia has been keeping the Yankee monkeys busy. Right time to make a move and change the status quo.
> 
> About generals making this or that decision for personal gain as *bolo* mentions above, first of all, this should be proven, otherwise, it is a libel. Second, wars make some people rich, indeed. All US wars made some rich while left others dead. But it is beyond moronic to claim that a nation's key strategies are sacrificed for personal gains.


 
These things have happened in the past. Empress Cixi used the treasury to build her summer palace instead of upgrading the navy is one example. I know that corruption is still rampant in the CPC. Recently, a former CPC member Zhou stole 12b USD. Some Chinese members just shrug that off, but to me stealing from your country is treasonous. to make things worse, he spent most of his money on foreign soil. Scum bags like that need to be executed or China will never see its glory days of the past.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## WuMaoCleverbot

*Officials reiterate 'PH sovereign rights' over disputed islands as Chinese fishermen arrested*

By Kim Arveen Patria | Yahoo Southeast Asia Newsroom 

Top officials on Thursday defended cops who arrested passengers of a Chinese fishing boat in Palawan, a move which threatens to fuel Manila’s flaring dispute with Beijing.

A Department of Foreign Affairs statement stressed the apprehension of the suspected Chinese poachers “were undertaken as actions to enforce maritime laws.”

Maritime police on Wednesday arrested a Chinese vessel, along with a local boat, for alleged possession of endangered wildlife, police chief Alan Purisima said in a press conference.

Special boat units have observed marine turtles being transferred from the local boat to the Chinese vessel near the Hasa-Hasa Shoal or the Half Moon Shoal, he added.

The apprehended boats, along with 11 foreigner nationals and five local fishermen aboard them were escorted to police headquarters in Puerto Princesa, Palawan.

Police said *the arrest is based on RA 9147, which considers the trading, transport, hunting and collection of endangered wildlife, including marine turtles.*

The DFA also noted that the move was performed to “uphold Philippine sovereign rights over its exclusive economic zone,” a right questioned by China.

China on Wednesday urged the Philippines to release the Chinese fishing boat and its nationals in the territory which is now the subject of a tense maritime dispute.

Beijing’s foreign ministry also warned the Manila against taking “provocative actions.” The Philippines has filed a memorial against China before an international tribunal.

The DFA meanwhile assured that relevant authorities in Palawan will address the case of alleged poaching “in a just, humane and expeditious manner.”

Police for their part said they will ensure cooperation among concerned agencies before charges are filed against the Chinese nationals and Filipinos involved.

Officials reiterate 'PH sovereign rights' over disputed islands as Chinese fishermen arrested - Yahoo News Philippines

We should invite local and international environmentalist organization to gather support and condemn China for protecting Chinese fishermen who are caught collecting endangered animals and corals.


----------



## Soryu

Beast said:


> No, oil is there.


But the Rig will out, after all.


----------



## itaskol

Soryu said:


> Yeah, but China backdown now, they want peace talk.
> 
> China urges talks, says no 'clash' with Vietnam| Reuters
> 
> You want a war !? Go ahead! I hope you're not end up in PRC prison


to be honest， I do want war with Vietnam.


----------



## volatile

DRAY said:


> When?



Bullying neighbours Lastupdate:- Tue, 16 Jul 2013 18:30:00 GMT GreaterKashmir.com
BBC NEWS | World | South Asia | India - regional bully or friend?


----------



## Soryu

itaskol said:


> to be honest， I do want war with Vietnam.


for what !??


----------



## Globenim

Nothing really happend. Some nationalist Vietnamese tried to make a statement about their recent claims on Chinese waters and provoke us. They where already shoed away. Drilling in our waters will continue as planed.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## zDragonFlyz

Who teach China international laws? Oh no, just simply basic laws in general.

It's 80 mile inside Vietnam's EEZ. Only Vietnam has the right to exploit there, according to UNCLOS 1982/

It is totally clear that China has signed this Convention. Not just singed, actually China is one of the pioneer investors:

Come on, no one ever told china that if you don't want to do something, never sign a contract, and if you have already signed, you have to do what you have signed?

It's just what I think or china is just illiterate and even can't read a contract?


----------



## zDragonFlyz

Anyone please told China that when you have signed a contract, you have to obey it. If you don't want to obey, don't sign anything.

China signed the UNCLOS 1982. Not just signed, actually China is one of the pioneer investors.

According to the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS 1982), Vietnam is the only country that has the right to exploit natural resources inside its EEZ.

And now China is trying to dig oil 80 mile inside Vietnam's EEZ

It's just what I think or china is just illiterate and even can't read a contract?

Come on. anyone please tell China that it has to do the contract it has signed, or at worst case help China to read a contract because it can't even read.



TheNoob said:


> When US invades and destory countrys by lying...
> its all O K.
> 
> But when China or Russia does something with no bloodshed.
> Their the bully.
> 
> 
> Freakin stupid logic people go by these days.....



At least US does things that it signed contracts to do.
And Russia does too.
China just doesn't.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## zDragonFlyz

Anyone knows that China just had signed the damn UNCLOS 1982? Come on, China. Just do what you signed to do.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## zDragonFlyz

Economic superpower said:


> What's wrong with us exploring resources in our sea? I don't see anything wrong with it.


'Your' sea? You signed the damn UNCLOS 1982! It clearly states that if something is 80 miles inside other country's EEZ, it's definitely not 'your sea', and you just can't go there and dig oil.
Just respect what you signed. Or else, just don't sign it. Understand?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## xunzi

zDragonFlyz said:


> Anyone please told China that when you have signed a contract, you have to obey it. If you don't want to obey, don't sign anything.
> 
> China signed the UNCLOS 1982. Not just signed, actually China is one of the pioneer investors.
> 
> According to the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS 1982), Vietnam is the only country that has the right to exploit natural resources inside its EEZ.
> 
> And now China is trying to dig oil 80 mile inside Vietnam's EEZ
> 
> It's just what I think or china is just illiterate and even can't read a contract?
> 
> Come on. anyone please tell China that it has to do the contract it has signed, or at worst case help China to read a contract because it can't even read.
> 
> 
> 
> At least US does things that it signed contracts to do.
> And Russia does too.
> China just doesn't.


We are drilling just 18 miles from our controlled island and it is 119 miles, not 80 away from your coast. Very clever Vietnamese propaganda and dirty tactic to avoid the real fact and use misleading information to gain some extra foreign sympathy. LOL W

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## xunzi

It's not backing down. It is us still feeling sympathy for you Vietnamese and let you have wiggle room to calm down before too late.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## zDragonFlyz

xunzi said:


> We are drilling just 18 miles from our controlled island and it is 119 miles, not 80 away from your coast. Very clever Vietnamese propaganda and dirty tactic to avoid the real fact and use misleading information to gain some extra foreign sympathy. LOL W



Someone help Mr xunzi here to read please. I said 80 mile deep *inside* Vietnam's 200-mile EEZ, and it means 119 (approx. 120 miles) from the shore. 120+80=200. Do you understand?

What misleading information? What are you trying to say? You want to deny which one of these 3 facts:
1) You are trying to dig oil in OUR EEZ, and it is illegal according to UNCLOS 1982
2) You signed the UNCLOS 1982
3) When you sign something, you have to obey it. If you don't want to obey, just don't sign.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## zDragonFlyz

Globenim said:


> Nothing really happend. Some nationalist Vietnamese tried to make a statement about their recent claims on Chinese waters and provoke us. They where already shoed away. Drilling in our waters will continue as planed.



What is your waters? From my little knowledge, if you sign something, you have to obey it. Even 5-year-old kid knows that. Am I wrong? 
You signed the UNCLOS 1982, so why you just trying to drill oil inside other country's Exclusive Economic Zone, which is totally illegal according to what you have signed?


----------



## zDragonFlyz

I just wonder does any chinese man/woman have a clue about the UN Laws of Sea - what China has signed? Any knowledge about Territorial Sea and Contiguous Zone, Exclusive Economic Zone, Continental Shelf? I thought they are educated somehow. Or their authorities just brainwashed them all?


----------



## xunzi

Raphael said:


> Here's an article speculating about China's intentions:
> http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/CHIN-02-080514.html
> 
> The author thinks China is just practising on Vietnam. But the real target is the Philippines.


Not really. If our intention is to practice on the Vietnamese, we would not give the option to calm tension down in Vietnam and urged to settle talk peacefully. Instead what we were doing is to demonstrate to the Vietnamese that now we possess the capability to drill unilaterally without anyone assistance. The oil drilling platform had been a long announcement since mid-2000 and only recently did we start to show it. In the short-term, we expect the Vietnamese to respond aggressively but we know we can always calm down teh situation when we have to. This is what we are doing right now. For the long-term, it signals to the Vietnamese to stop bickering with us and accelerate bilateral negotiation in settling joint-development in contest water. The lost player here is actually the Phillipines.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## xunzi

zDragonFlyz said:


> Someone help Mr xunzi here to read please. I said 80 mile deep *inside* Vietnam's 200-mile EEZ, and it means 119 (approx. 120 miles) from the shore. 120+80=200. Do you understand?
> 
> What misleading information? What are you trying to say? You want to deny which one of these 3 facts:
> 1) You are trying to dig oil in OUR EEZ, and it is illegal according to UNCLOS 1982
> 2) You signed the UNCLOS 1982
> 3) When you sign something, you have to obey it. If you don't want to obey, just don't sign.


Very clever tactic to round up, my friend.

1. Your EEZ is overlapping with our controlled territorial water. The equidistant principle of UNCLOS applied here because of overlapping. The international law regarding overlapping water is to settle diplomatically between two parties. The trouble is you have been reluctant to do it bilaterally. We are forcing your hand, that all, my friend.
2.. It is not illegal. Go look up UNCLOS in reference to our declaration before ratifying. We never accept any country EEZ if it overlaps with our territorial base.
3. We did obey. It's true who misleading fact. Do I need to bring up our declaration before signing off on UNCLOS?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Raphael

xunzi said:


> Not really. If our intention is to practice on the Vietnamese, we would not give the option to calm tension down in Vietnam and urged to settle talk peacefully. Instead what we were doing is to demonstrate to the Vietnamese that now we possess the capability to drill unilaterally without anyone assistance. The oil drilling platform had been a long announcement since mid-2000 and only recently did we start to show it. In the short-term, we expect the Vietnamese to respond aggressively but we know we can always calm down teh situation when we have to. This is what we are doing right now. For the long-term, it signals to the Vietnamese to stop bickering with us and accelerate bilateral negotiation in settling joint-development in contest water. The lost player here is actually the Phillipines.



Yes I hope so. I actually don't care about Vietnam, but Pinoys irritate me. Such a distasteful people, just looking for a beating.


----------



## mike2000

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Well that's what they get for trying to suck up to America, who is Russia's greatest enemy.
> 
> When you try to play both sides, then neither one will come and help you.




You are right on this. Vietnam is in a very different/difficult situation to others. Its kind of Unique among the claimants in SCS. In that its not a democracy like Philippines Japan, south korea, Taiwan, Malaysia etc who have claims in SCS . It has fought a bloody war with U.S, has human rights issues/political refugees living in the U.S(who still act as a reminder Washington can use them anytime to harm the country), is still a little bit tilted towards Russia(Which the U.S sees as a rival/competitor), and is communist like its northern neighbor. So Vietnam is kind of in a difficult position and doesn't knows which side to choose. it could go with the U.S but its comes with great risks and will alienate both Russia and China, plus the U.S could also change the communist regime if it deems necessary(to a U.S democratic president who will be subservient to its interests like the Philippines). It would have been easier if South Vietnam had won the war and Vietnam was a democracy. Unfortunately its not the case, so i don't see Vietnam getting any help from the U.S other than verbal statements IMO. except maybe it agrees to U.S bases and become another Philippines then it will help send a message to China. However the irony is that Vietnam also has territory claims with the Philippines , and still occupies some Filipinos islands it seized decades ago. In all this, the country i support/feel sorry for is the Philippines, since its the weakest among all the claimants and having visited the country, they are nice, hard working and welcoming people. Will have been good if china and the other Asian countries could agree to share the area resources/joint exploration with the Philippines. 
Asia is a very complex region IMO.


----------



## JayMandan

zDragonFlyz said:


> What is your waters? From my little knowledge, if you sign something, you have to obey it. Even 5-year-old kid knows that. Am I wrong?
> You signed the UNCLOS 1982, so why you just trying to drill oil inside other country's Exclusive Economic Zone, which is totally illegal according to what you have signed?


Isn't it a scary thing especially for it's neighbors? How much more can China do when the west abandons Asia?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## bolo

JayMandan said:


> Isn't it a scary thing especially for it's neighbors? How much more can China do when the west abandons Asia?


USA will not help Vietnam in a conflict. China know this, Vietcong leader know this. Only five vietcong in pdf don't know this.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## JayMandan

bolo said:


> USA will not help Vietnam in a conflict. China know this, Vietcong leader know this. Only five vietcong in pdf don't know this.


What's the use of international law in which China signed up for if you don't obey it? Don't you hate America because of that?


----------



## bolo

JayMandan said:


> What's the use of international law in which China signed up for if you don't obey it? Don't you hate America because of that?


The UN law does not apply in this case if you read it. To be frank, international laws don't mean shit because treaties have been broken thousands of time throughout history. Laws are written and made by strong countries in power to make the rest believe they are relevant.
In this case China is drilling 18 miles off their Paracel islands, which is 120 miles from. Vietnam coast. Vietnamese ultra nationalist causing shit and lying for world support, or rather USA support. US will support them with more lip service and encouragement, nothing more.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## WuMaoCleverbot

*Threat to wildlife*
(The Philippine Star) | Updated May 9, 2014 - 12:00am

Giant clams and corals for décor. Sharks for their fins, for soup. Pangolins, seahorses and snakes for their supposed medicinal properties. And sea turtles for their meat, also believed to bring health benefits. All these creatures have been confiscated in the past years by Philippine authorities from Chinese poachers venturing into waters way beyond their shores.

That the creatures are endangered or protected have not deterred the Chinese, even if their country acceded way back in 1981 to CITES, or the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora. The Philippines, which ratified the treaty in the same year, has had its share of activities that threaten endangered wildlife. Unlike the Chinese, however, Filipino violators have largely kept their activities within national territory.

Chinese poachers have ventured as far as Palau, perhaps laying the groundwork for a territorial claim over the entire Pacific Ocean as they hunt for sharks and giant clams. In 2012, fishery and wildlife police in Palau, where shark fishing is banned, fired what officials described as warning shots at Chinese poachers, killing one of them and arresting the rest who burned down their own ship.

Chinese poachers have avoided Palau since then. But they continue to harvest endangered species all over the South China Sea, which they claim almost in its entirety. They have ventured even into the Sulu Sea, which may soon be covered by an expanded 18-Dash-Line territorial claim.

Sulu Sea, home to the Tubbataha Reefs World Heritage Site, opens out to the West Philippine Sea, near the spot 60 miles off the southern tip of Palawan where Philippine maritime police arrested on Tuesday morning 11 Chinese fishermen with a cargo of some 300 sea turtles. A boat with five Filipinos and about 40 turtles were intercepted along with the Chinese boat.

As in similar arrests in the past, Manila is again considering a Chinese demand for the release of the poachers. Unless the government starts dealing more firmly with the theft of its endangered wildlife, we will not see the end of this illegal activity, and it may even escalate.

EDITORIAL - Threat to wildlife | Opinion, News, The Philippine Star | philstar.com


----------



## KAL-EL

Viet said:


> troll or not, really speaking, considering the imbalance of power, Vietnam should accquire nuclear deterrence.
> otherwise we would be constantly blackmailed.
> 
> a fleet of nuclear submarines would be very helpful.



Vietnam, like any other sovereign nation has a right to defend itself. I have no issues with that.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Kyle Sun

What 's the current situation now ?

Any update ?


----------



## Beast

JayMandan said:


> What's the use of international law in which China signed up for if you don't obey it? Don't you hate America because of that?


 International treaties is for superpower and winner. We can dictate what is it.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TaiShang

JayMandan said:


> What's the use of international law in which China signed up for if you don't obey it? Don't you hate America because of that?



It is not international law. It is a convention. So, has no mandate and anybody can opt out when they wish. China put many exemptions before signing the agreement. 

Again. so long as all the P5 do not like it, nothing becomes international law. They have veto power to shot down anything.


----------



## Kyle Sun

zDragonFlyz said:


> What is your waters? From my little knowledge, if you sign something, you have to obey it. Even 5-year-old kid knows that. Am I wrong?
> You signed the UNCLOS 1982, so why you just trying to drill oil inside other country's Exclusive Economic Zone, which is totally illegal according to what you have signed?


Check the UNCLOS word by word which we signed 

After that , you tell me we obey it or not .



JayMandan said:


> What's the use of international law in which China signed up for if you don't obey it? Don't you hate America because of that?


You guys are really funny , you even do not know the details of this international law which we singed up and you condemn us not obeying it . 

Have you ever hear about additional provisions ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

bolo said:


> In this case China is drilling 18 miles off their Paracel islands, which is 120 miles from. Vietnam coast. Vietnamese ultra nationalist causing shit and lying for world support, or rather USA support. US will support them with more lip service and encouragement, nothing more.



Paracels or Hoang Sa is Islands of Vietnam, China ocoupid with force 1974. Its illegal .


----------



## sweetgrape

DT1010 said:


> Don't act as a knowing cool guy! ok


Hehe!


----------



## Rechoice

Kyle Sun said:


> What 's the current situation now ?
> 
> Any update ?



Vietnam known from long time there is no oil.

US CIA did it noisy in the past, just for cheating greedy Chinese jumped in to rob Islands Hoang Sa 1974. Then they known that US will comback with new position.
low IQ chinese cant understand how to do.


----------



## TaiShang

Soryu said:


>



With the damage the Vietnamese vessel endured in the second video, nation's economy will likely contract by .5 points.


----------



## Kyle Sun

Rechoice said:


> Vietnam known from long time there is no oil.
> 
> US CIA did it noisy in the past, just for cheating greedy Chinese jumped in to rob Islands Hoang Sa 1974. Then they known that US will comback with new position.
> low IQ chinese cant understand how to do.


I am asking the update of 981.

If you know , answer it . If not , get lost.


----------



## BoQ77

Using same ships those escorted Liaoning ... China is practising in assumming HD981 as Liaoning ...
and trying the look like real exercises ...

At this moment, to them Liaoning is just like an oil rig, slow and defense-less

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Beast

Rechoice said:


> Paracels or Hoang Sa is Islands of Vietnam, China ocoupid with force 1974. Its illegal .



I challenge you to take back. You viernamese no balls to take back? Cowards 

As long as i got the power, the thing is mine. What can u do? i can pick any spot i like to drill.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Kyle Sun

Any update ?


----------



## terranMarine

Soryu said:


> for what !??



You Vietcongs like to brag about shooting the rig down, well shoot it down and we can have a war. You guys love to brag about your supa powa status how you kicked everyone (France, Japan, USA and China). Proof how strong you guys are by shooting the rig down and we have a good reason to fight each other again and Vietcongs can show the world just how strong you guys are. Unless you are just cowards ofcourse. If you don't want a war then why brag about shooting the rig down? JUST FIRE THE FIRST SHOT

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## chhota bheem

Beast said:


> I challenge you to take back. You viernamese no balls to take back? Cowards


Does that logic appliy to china and tiwan as well,can the vietnamese call you cowards,grow up.



Beast said:


> As long as i got the power, the thing is mine. What can u do? i can pick any spot i like to drill.


The problem with power is it dsnt stay in one place for ever it keeps changing hands.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Soryu

TaiShang said:


> With the damage the Vietnamese vessel endured in the second video, nation's economy will likely contract by .5 points.


The videos show off how aggressive Chinese are ... it's show off, understand !? 


terranMarine said:


> You Vietcongs like to brag about shooting the rig down, well shoot it down and we can have a war. You guys love to brag about your supa powa status how you kicked everyone (France, Japan, USA and China). Proof how strong you guys are by shooting the rig down and we have a good reason to fight each other again and Vietcongs can show the world just how strong you guys are. Unless you are just cowards ofcourse. If you don't want a war then why brag about shooting the rig down? JUST FIRE THE FIRST SHOT


No, kid, we're never need to shoot it down, we will seized it, and use it to drilling oil in SCS ...


----------



## KAL-EL

@chhota bheem it troubles me that some in this thread are taking so much pleasure in this.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

Kyle Sun said:


> I am asking the update of 981.
> 
> If you know , answer it . If not , get lost.



chinese don't know how to do, ha ha, get lost from our water.


----------



## BoQ77

For Chinese warships, there're Vietnam warships ...
As informed by US, 4 Chinese warships under monitoring of some US warships nearby ...
Some photos of Chinese warships taken by MH60 Sea hawk take off from US warships


----------



## terranMarine

Soryu said:


> No, kid, we're never need to shoot it down, we will seized it, and use it to drilling oil in SCS ...



That's not what your Vietcong brothers said, but i can see you are coming with an excuse to back off. So instead of shooting it down you are saying your jungle will seize the rig? We are waiting for macacas to seize it so what's taking so long?


----------



## Rechoice

Beast said:


> I challenge you to take back. You viernamese no balls to take back? Cowards
> 
> As long as i got the power, the thing is mine. What can u do? i can pick any spot i like to drill.



Chinese aggressor stolen our Islands with force, We will take back soon or late. kid.


----------



## Kyle Sun

BoQ77 said:


> Using same ships those escorted Liaoning ... China is practising in assumming HD981 as Liaoning ...
> and trying the look like real exercises ...
> 
> At this moment, to them Liaoning is just like an oil rig, slow and defense-less





Rechoice said:


> chinese don't know how to do, ha ha, get lost from our water.


Again , it is our EEZ. 

And we know what to do , 981 is there ,isn't it ?


----------



## BoQ77

If it actually drill into our seabed, we will shoot

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## terranMarine

Rechoice said:


> Chinese aggressor stolen our Islands with force, We will take back soon or late. kid.



What's soon? What's late? Or is it just talk?


----------



## BoQ77

Those 500 turtles on the Chinese boat


----------



## Nike

applesauce said:


> oh its clear now you have exactly* ZERO* idea of what you are taking about, a flanker, such as the su-30 or su-27 or its chinese variants, j--11/B, has 3000-3500 km range, more than enough to take off from hainan and have sufficient loiter time over the scs(distance of about 1000 km). now vietnam has 34(su-30 and su-27) current with 12 more (su-30) on order, PLAAF on the other hand flys close to 300 flanker variants, and the PLAN as an additional 70ish(and increasing). China can *easily* put a sizable fleet in the air over the SCS, and it doesn't even have to be all of them, not even close, just 20% of the chinese flanker force is more than twice of what vietnam operates. therefore you claim is completely wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> who on earth said, they would fly close to the vietnamese coast? and the chinese navy can sink the entire vietnamese navy then have your air force for dessert. with a large number of 054A and 052C and soon 052D which far out ranges the KH-59ME(export) version which vietnam operates,(~120km range), the hhq-9 on the 052c max range is 200km in other words, those su-22s would never get close enough to launch any missiles worth worrying about. ur migs are even more laughable, mig-21/j-7 are known for their short legs, they can at best go 500km before having to turn back, if u wanna get into battle at all, the range is far shorter than 500km, which makes then good for point defence, not so good for attacking out to sea.
> 
> 
> 
> oh lol. is that what you think? the subs are 1000x more survivable in a naval war with china than any of your jets, because if those jets take off, they're not going back home. while the subs at least have a chance if they keep quiet, and china still has a weak link in the form of its asw capabilities compared with its advances in other areas.
> 
> 
> 
> hahah, you are getting funnier and funnier, you plan to use a land based rocket system with 150km range to strike at targets 500km+ away? just how delusional are you? the reason china can park a s-300/hq-9 system in the islands is because its safe from other forms of attack, namely attacks from naval ships, given the vast PLAN superiority over the vietnamese navy, any s-300 system you park on an island is going to be toast, not by planes but by attacks from ships, and china doesnt need to park any such system really, cause the 052c carrys the naval version of the hq-9 anyways.
> 
> so to sum it up.
> 
> vietnam has about zero advantages once we are 300km or so away from its coast
> your missiles dont have the range
> you navy cant protect your islands
> your airforce cant achieve any kind of air supirority
> 
> ps: stop confusing what the soviet/russians operate with what they export(downgraded) to vietnam, there is a huge difference.




Correct me if I am Wrong

China must maintain the large number of their Platform weapons in several fronts at once, not only two or three but at least four Front

1. They must keep a large number of their missile forces, land forces and Fighter jets against India border
2. They must keep a large number of their missile forces, Naval assets and fighter jets against Japan and possibly US 7th fleet near Senkaku Island and Okinawa
3. They must keep a large number of their missile forces, Naval assets and fighter jets against Taiwan and almost surely US intervention near Taiwan Strait
4. They must keep considerable number of their land troops, missile forces and jet fighter near North Korean border, to prevent refugee intruding, and possibly Korean Peninsular Conflict
5. They must keep a considerable maybe small number of their Land forces, and Air Forces assets near Russian border to keep a parity against their (Russian Armed Forces) assets there. 
6. They must keep a considerable large number of their Naval and Air Forces assets in South China Sea Region, possibly against Vietnam and Philippine 

You've got your hand's full, and yet you still wanna to make a new problems against Indonesia and several other ASEAN member such as Myanmar (by backing several rebellion there) and Malaysia. China think they are John Wayne or Johny Rambo, it's very funny.


----------



## Rechoice

Kyle Sun said:


> Again , it is our EEZ.
> 
> And we know what to do , 981 is there ,isn't it ?



No, don't lie. this toy is in EZZ from Coastline and Hoang Sa Islands EZZ of Vietnam now.

could you let it for ever ?, no move back to China ? it is very expensive toy. many corrouption officail in China got enough money from contruction of it. Think move !


----------



## SenLin

Do you guys think that Vietnam will one day request direct support from the US or India to counter China? Like Japan, Philippines etc?


----------



## TaiShang

BoQ77 said:


> For Chinese warships, there're Vietnam warships ...
> As informed by US, 4 Chinese warships under monitoring of some US warships nearby ...
> Some photos of Chinese warships taken by MH60 Sea hawk take off from US warships



US will dare do nothing. Everybody monitors everybody's actions. Do not think China does not monitor the US in the Asia-Pacific?


----------



## KAL-EL

BoQ77 said:


> Those 500 turtles on the Chinese boat



That's a lot of turtles


----------



## Rechoice

terranMarine said:


> What's soon? What's late? Or is it just talk?


 10, 100 or 1,000 year or forever ? he he. stupid boy and kiddo leadership of China don't understand.


----------



## Kyle Sun

Rechoice said:


> No, don't lie. this toy is in EZZ from Coastline and Hoang Sa Islands EZZ of Vietnam now.
> 
> could you let it for ever ?, no move back to China ? it is very expensive toy. many corrouption officail in China got enough money from contruction of it. Think move !


10B dollars toy can make 10000B oil or gas. We know the math, no thanks.


----------



## terranMarine

Rechoice said:


> 10, 100 or 1,000 year or forever ? he he. stupid boy and kiddo leadership of China don't understand.



In other words just talk *yawns*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Nike

Beast said:


> US is even worst. Talk but totally no action. Remember georgia and ukraine?



i think US had the most military activity in the world since the collapse of Sovyet Union, you Chinese are talk the talk but you can't walk the walk of the US had going through in this decade

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Soryu

Chinese mental boys always have delusion about the World


----------



## terranMarine

SenLin said:


> Do you guys think that Vietnam will one day request direct support from the US or India to counter China? Like Japan, Philippines etc?



There's a price, look at the Pinoys they are having yankee stationing on its soil. What do you think about Russian's reaction would be if yankee are allowed to use VN's ports?


----------



## Kyle Sun

madokafc said:


> i think US had the most military activity in the world since the collapse of Sovyet Union, you Chinese are talk the talk but you can't walk the walk of the US had going through in this decade


Even during Soviet union time, US was also the No1 power , Soviet union never surpassed US.


----------



## Soryu

SenLin said:


> Do you guys think that Vietnam will one day request direct support from the US or India to counter China? Like Japan, Philippines etc?


Maybe, but it'll still long time for that. That's when Chinese made a all out war or destroyed Vietnam Navy.
Vietnam - US relationship and Vietnam - China relationship are not fit for that, now.
Situation still can be solved by diplomacy.


----------



## BoQ77

Chinese want to place the corner brick for their invasion to entire of South China Sea .
Vietnam is their first step ... as they estimated, if they could resolve this case, then next ones would be pieces of cake.

Actually, the site which Oil Rig 981 operating in has no potential oil and gas

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## BoQ77

terranMarine said:


> There's a price, look at the Pinoys they are having yankee stationing on its soil. What do you think about Russian's reaction would be if yankee are allowed to use VN's ports?



US never offer Fight for us ... they offer providing us the equipment and technology as our demand ...
or request to get the technical services for their ships at our ports.

Btw, Vietnam and USA officially sign Nuclear Pact for transfering US technology & material of nuclear to Vietnam.

Which country, ever sign the same Pact with USA ? India


----------



## Rechoice

Kyle Sun said:


> 10B dollars toy can make 10000B oil or gas. We know the math, no thanks.



build new one, good deal.

is 100 kg dynamite TNT enough ? or more ?


----------



## sweetgrape

BoQ77 said:


> Chinese want to place the corner brick for their invasion to entire of South China Sea .
> Vietnam is their first step ... as they estimated, if they could resolve this case, then next ones would be pieces of cake.
> 
> Actually, the site which Oil Rig 981 operating in has no potential oil and gas


Sorry, you are wrong, you are pieces of cake.




Rechoice said:


> build new one, good deal.
> is 100 kg dynamite TNT enough ? or more ?


Not TNT problem, for you, the problem is whether you dare, find the point, vietcong!


----------



## Soryu

xunzi said:


> It's not backing down. It is us still feeling sympathy for you Vietnamese and let you have wiggle room to calm down before too late.


Well, still not clear where's China Government keep their aggression going, but so many Chinese keep jump up and down in many Chinese forum cause their navy didn't destroy Vietnamese ships ...

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Soryu

Kyle Sun said:


> What 's the current situation now ?
> 
> Any update ?


Your oil rig can't make it operate, Vietnamese ships and forces keep watching PRC ships action and move. 
And US ships were spot out near by...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

China did such a thing, because they thought the inside area of nine-dashed-line is their own water

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Kyle Sun

Soryu said:


> Your oil rig can't make it operate, Vietnamese ships and forces keep watching PRC ships action and move.
> And US ships were spot out near by...


uhm.. Let's wait and see the final result.



Rechoice said:


> build new one, good deal.
> 
> is 100 kg dynamite TNT enough ? or more ?


One piece of Ak bullet or m16 bullet is enough, just do what you want since you guys are so angery , no more talk please.


----------



## TaiShang

China urges Philippines to release fishing boat and crew - CCTV News - CCTV.com English

11 Chinese fishermen continue to be held in custody by the Philippine police on charges of illegally entering its territorial waters and catching an endangered species.

*China has urged the Philippines to "immediately" release the fishermen and their boat, warning Manila to "take no more provocative action." The Philippine national police chief says the fishermen will be investigated to determine if they illegally entered Philippine territory and committed other crimes such as poaching. *Philippine police took the fishermen and their boat into custody on Tuesday morning near Half Moon Shoal, which is part of the Nansha Islands. 

China insists it has sovereignty over the islands and their surrounding waters. Philippine authorities say the vessel was loaded with more than 350 endangered green sea turtles. *A Chinese maritime police boat has arrived in the area and the Chinese Foreign Ministry and the Chinese Embassy in the Philippines have lodged complaints.*


----------



## hoangsa

News :
- Vietnam said Chinese white ship ( civilian ship ) intentionaly ramped Vietnamese white ship. There are 7 grey ships ( military ship ) supporting around. All cannons on ships are uncovered and ready to shoot ( threaten ...ha...ha... who care ? All of Vietnamese on police ships are very brave especially when they are facing Chinese - in blood since 4000 years ). A lot of video clips, a lot of pictures to proove Chinese action and damage of Vietnamese ship in front of many international reporters. Take note that Vietnamese Police ships are not weak and armed ( but covered ) . We are strong enough to fight back but not ( at the moment ), and we will ramp back in next fight. By all means, Vietnam will not step back this time because enemy is right at the door, there are no way to set back.

- Chinese, as usual, replied differently. There are no military ships from China but Vietnam. Vietnam ships ramp Chinese ships. No proof. China wants peace with Vietnam. Only coward ones deny what they have done. How to become a great nation with this coward style, rising China ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

terranMarine said:


> In other words just talk *yawns*



problem is that chinese is mad. then you copy now activities of imperialist. So dont cry when Japanese and US will rule you again.


----------



## ViXuyen

SenLin said:


> Do you guys think that Vietnam will one day request direct support from the US or India to counter China? Like Japan, Philippines etc?


What do you mean by "direct support"? Fighting on behalf of Vietnam?

No, all we need is the U.S to lift the arms embargo on us so we can buy their advanced weaponries. We'll always do the fighting ourselves. If we get to buy the F-35, not only that we have total control over the South China Sea but we can also take military action to retake the Paracel island as well. 

The relationship between Vietnam and the U.S is a very weird one. The U.S is willing to sign nuclear technology cooperation with us but they're still placing the arms embargo on us


----------



## Pangu

How far away is the oil rig from Triton Island(中建岛)?


----------



## TaiShang

*China requires Vietnam to stop any form of disruptions of Chinese company's operations*

*Xinhua, 2014-5-9*

A Chinese Foreign Ministry official on Thursday *urged the Vietnamese side to stop any form of disruption of Chinese company's normal oil drilling in waters administered by China.*

Yi Xianliang, Deputy Director-General of the Department of Boundary and Ocean Affairs of the Foreign Ministry of China, held a press briefing together with Li Yong, CEO of China Oilfield Services Limited (COSL), on China's drilling operations in southern waters to the Zhongjian Island of the Xisha Islands of China.

Yi said that since May 2,* Vietnam has carried out intensive disruptions of Chinese company's normal oil drilling in waters administered by China. China is deeply surprised and shocked*.

Yi said that *the Xisha Islands are inherent territory of China and there are no disputes in this area. This operation is undertaken by COSL, and it is a normal drilling activity in the coastal waters of the Xisha Islands of China.

The waters of the operation, which is only 17 nautical miles away from the Zhongjian Island is completely within waters off China's Xisha Islands, he said, adding that it is 130-150 nautical miles away from Vietnam.*

Chinese company's operation in waters off the Xisha Islands completely falls within China's sovereignty, sovereign rights and jurisdiction, Yi stressed.

Yi said that *10 years ago, Chinese companies have been operating in these waters. From last May to June, Chinese companies carried out 3-D seismic operations in these waters. This operation is only a routine continuation of our operation in these waters of the past decade*.

Soon after the Chinese oil rig arrived at the scene of the operation on May 2,* the Vietnamese side dispatched 6 vessels which took the first move to deliberately ram into Chinese government ships at the scene of the operation forcefully in an attempt to disrupt China's drilling operations, *according to Yi.

Since May 3, *Vietnam has sent more vessels to the scene and for many times rammed into Chinese government ships,* he added.

China has for many times *required the Vietnamese side to follow international practices and heed and respect the navigation notice issued by China's maritime authorities*, so as to uphold maritime production and operation order and navigation safety, Yi said.

However, the Vietnamese side sent additional ships to the scene and continued to ram into Chinese vessels at the scene, said Yi, noting that *from May 3 to 7, in a short period of 5 days, Vietnam had dispatched 36 vessels of various kinds which rammed Chinese vessels for as much as 171 times*.

The Chinese vessels at the scene are only government vessels and civil vessels, Yi said, but the Vietnamese side has many armed vessels deployed to the scene.

In the course of collision, *the Chinese side also found frogmen sent by the Vietnamese side 5 meters away from the Chinese government vessels, Yi said, adding that the Vietnamese side also placed many fishing nets and large obstacles in the waters, not only posing security threats to Chinese vessels and facilities, but also jeopardizing normal navigation security,* he said.

Vietnam's disruptions of the Chinese company's normal activities have seriously violated China's sovereignty, sovereignty rights and jurisdiction, gravely affected the normal order of production and operation and the safety of China's rig, and caused unnecessary troubles for China-Vietnam relations, said Yi.

Yi said that the Chinese side had to take more security measures in response to Vietnam's disruptions, so as to ensure the order of maritime operation and the safety of navigation.

China has exercised enormous restraint when dealing with provocations by the Vietnamese side, he stressed.

*To date, the Chinese side has communicated with the Vietnamese side for 14 times through diplomatic channels, calling on the Vietnamese side to respect China's legitimate rights and interests, come to its senses, stop all forms of disruption and remove immediately all vessels and personnel from the scene*, according to Yi.

Yi said that relations between China and Vietnam have experienced steady improvements in recent years. Leaders of the two parties and two states have reached important consensus on strengthening traditional friendship, deepening strategic cooperation and properly handling sensitive issues.

In 2011, China and Vietnam reached the agreement on the basic principles guiding the settlement of maritime issues between China and Vietnam and also launched the consultation of two working groups, one on maritime cooperation in low-sensitive areas and the other on joint development of waters outside the mouth of the Beibu Bay, he said.

In 2013, China and Vietnam identified the overall strategy to develop maritime, land and financial cooperation in parallel which created new prospects for China-Vietnam relations, Yi said, adding that the working group on maritime joint development has held two rounds of consultation and achieved positive progress.

*China and Vietnam are neighbors and brothers linked by rivers and mountains*, he said, adding that the Chinese side believes that t*he two countries have the capacity and wisdom to solve the problem.*

The Chinese side hopes that the Vietnamese side will cherish what the two have achieved in bilateral relations which does not come easily and work hard to improve bilateral relations together with China, according to Yi.


----------



## Rechoice

sweetgrape said:


> Sorry, you are wrong, you are pieces of cake.
> 
> 
> 
> Not TNT problem, for you, the problem is whether you dare, find the point, vietcong!



China can build more rigs. good business for corrouption leadership in China.

China can not swalow our Islands, kid.


----------



## bolo

Rechoice said:


> Paracels or Hoang Sa is Islands of Vietnam, China ocoupid with force 1974. Its illegal .


You can say Europeans illegally occupied North America, but you will be laughed at and possibly get your teeth kicked in by Americans.


----------



## Pangu

Take a look at US EEZ map. Every island & even atoll (Johnston atoll) has it's own 200nm EEZ. The oil rig is situated within our EEZ in reference to Triton Island (Zhongjian Dao). Case closed.

http://www.gc.noaa.gov/documents/2011/012711_gcil_maritime_eez_map.pdf


----------



## bolo

TaiShang said:


> *China requires Vietnam to stop any form of disruptions of Chinese company's operations*
> 
> *Xinhua, 2014-5-9*
> 
> A Chinese Foreign Ministry official on Thursday *urged the Vietnamese side to stop any form of disruption of Chinese company's normal oil drilling in waters administered by China.*
> 
> Yi Xianliang, Deputy Director-General of the Department of Boundary and Ocean Affairs of the Foreign Ministry of China, held a press briefing together with Li Yong, CEO of China Oilfield Services Limited (COSL), on China's drilling operations in southern waters to the Zhongjian Island of the Xisha Islands of China.
> 
> Yi said that since May 2,* Vietnam has carried out intensive disruptions of Chinese company's normal oil drilling in waters administered by China. China is deeply surprised and shocked*.
> 
> Yi said that *the Xisha Islands are inherent territory of China and there are no disputes in this area. This operation is undertaken by COSL, and it is a normal drilling activity in the coastal waters of the Xisha Islands of China.*
> 
> *The waters of the operation, which is only 17 nautical miles away from the Zhongjian Island is completely within waters off China's Xisha Islands, he said, adding that it is 130-150 nautical miles away from Vietnam.*
> 
> Chinese company's operation in waters off the Xisha Islands completely falls within China's sovereignty, sovereign rights and jurisdiction, Yi stressed.
> 
> Yi said that *10 years ago, Chinese companies have been operating in these waters. From last May to June, Chinese companies carried out 3-D seismic operations in these waters. This operation is only a routine continuation of our operation in these waters of the past decade*.
> 
> Soon after the Chinese oil rig arrived at the scene of the operation on May 2,* the Vietnamese side dispatched 6 vessels which took the first move to deliberately ram into Chinese government ships at the scene of the operation forcefully in an attempt to disrupt China's drilling operations, *according to Yi.
> 
> Since May 3, *Vietnam has sent more vessels to the scene and for many times rammed into Chinese government ships,* he added.
> 
> China has for many times *required the Vietnamese side to follow international practices and heed and respect the navigation notice issued by China's maritime authorities*, so as to uphold maritime production and operation order and navigation safety, Yi said.
> 
> However, the Vietnamese side sent additional ships to the scene and continued to ram into Chinese vessels at the scene, said Yi, noting that *from May 3 to 7, in a short period of 5 days, Vietnam had dispatched 36 vessels of various kinds which rammed Chinese vessels for as much as 171 times*.
> 
> The Chinese vessels at the scene are only government vessels and civil vessels, Yi said, but the Vietnamese side has many armed vessels deployed to the scene.
> 
> In the course of collision, *the Chinese side also found frogmen sent by the Vietnamese side 5 meters away from the Chinese government vessels, Yi said, adding that the Vietnamese side also placed many fishing nets and large obstacles in the waters, not only posing security threats to Chinese vessels and facilities, but also jeopardizing normal navigation security,* he said.
> 
> Vietnam's disruptions of the Chinese company's normal activities have seriously violated China's sovereignty, sovereignty rights and jurisdiction, gravely affected the normal order of production and operation and the safety of China's rig, and caused unnecessary troubles for China-Vietnam relations, said Yi.
> 
> Yi said that the Chinese side had to take more security measures in response to Vietnam's disruptions, so as to ensure the order of maritime operation and the safety of navigation.
> 
> China has exercised enormous restraint when dealing with provocations by the Vietnamese side, he stressed.
> 
> *To date, the Chinese side has communicated with the Vietnamese side for 14 times through diplomatic channels, calling on the Vietnamese side to respect China's legitimate rights and interests, come to its senses, stop all forms of disruption and remove immediately all vessels and personnel from the scene*, according to Yi.
> 
> Yi said that relations between China and Vietnam have experienced steady improvements in recent years. Leaders of the two parties and two states have reached important consensus on strengthening traditional friendship, deepening strategic cooperation and properly handling sensitive issues.
> 
> In 2011, China and Vietnam reached the agreement on the basic principles guiding the settlement of maritime issues between China and Vietnam and also launched the consultation of two working groups, one on maritime cooperation in low-sensitive areas and the other on joint development of waters outside the mouth of the Beibu Bay, he said.
> 
> In 2013, China and Vietnam identified the overall strategy to develop maritime, land and financial cooperation in parallel which created new prospects for China-Vietnam relations, Yi said, adding that the working group on maritime joint development has held two rounds of consultation and achieved positive progress.
> 
> *China and Vietnam are neighbors and brothers linked by rivers and mountains*, he said, adding that the Chinese side believes that t*he two countries have the capacity and wisdom to solve the problem.*
> 
> The Chinese side hopes that the Vietnamese side will cherish what the two have achieved in bilateral relations which
> does not come easily and work hard to improve bilateral relations together with China, according to Yi.


I dunno about you, but i am tired of flowery language. That is partially the reason why these small countries are not afraid of China and think Chinese are weaklings. Imagine if it was Vietnamese boats ramming American , s korean, japanese or russian boats?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ViXuyen

bolo said:


> I dunno about you, but i am tired of flowery language. That is partially the reason why these small countries are not afraid of China and think Chinese are weaklings. Imagine if it was Vietnamese boats ramming American , s korean, japanese or russian boats?


 Your boats already rammed the American off Hainan and the Japanese Coast guard off Diaoyu

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

Vietnam has nowhere to step back, only way is China step back or Vietnam fail to protect our EEZ. Chinese Government started this round of game, so I hope they have way to solve this situation.
US should keep their distance and care their mouth. 
Other ASEAN country should rise their voice for peaceful of the region.


hoangsa said:


> News :
> - Vietnam said Chinese white ship ( civilian ship ) intentionaly ramped Vietnamese white ship. There are 7 grey ships ( military ship ) supporting around. All cannons on ships are uncovered and ready to shoot ( threaten ...ha...ha... who care ? All of Vietnamese on police ships are very brave especially when they are facing Chinese - in blood since 4000 years ). A lot of video clips, a lot of pictures to proove Chinese action and damage of Vietnamese ship in front of many international reporters. Take note that Vietnamese Police ships are not weak and armed ( but covered ) . We are strong enough to fight back but not ( at the moment ), and we will ramp back in next fight. By all means, Vietnam will not step back this time because enemy is right at the door, there are no way to set back.
> 
> - Chinese, as usual, replied differently. There are no military ships from China but Vietnam. Vietnam ships ramp Chinese ships. No proof. China wants peace with Vietnam. Only coward ones deny what they have done. How to become a great nation with this coward style, rising China ?


----------



## Beast

Soryu said:


> Well, still not clear where's China Government keep their aggression going, but so many Chinese keep jump up and down in many Chinese forum cause their navy didn't destroy Vietnamese ships ...


 Rather its more of your troll companion brag about how vietnam coast guard going to drive out the rig and how VPN going to crush PLAN. All which yet to happen.


----------



## Soryu

Beast said:


> Rather its more of your troll companion brag about how vietnam coast guard going to drive out the rig and how VPN going to crush PLAN. All which yet to happen.


Oh, really !? Seem like I wasn't catch the show in here, cause my life still busy.
Well, we have our fun in here to troll to each other, don't tell me you didn't do that.

Sohu and tiexue forum are very exciting right now with event, you don't know that !?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Soryu

xudeen said:


> How far away is the oil rig from Triton Island(中建岛)?


18nm .......................


----------



## sincity

CN.Black said:


> None of your business.It is my FREEDOM and my RIGHT.You American guys should shut up.This is a problem between China and Vietnam.


 
The **** I care if the war broke out in SCS, I meant not to drag me into your freaking bickering, I"m not represent the US government and you or Vietnamese poster in here don't represent either China or VietNam, stop blowing hot air about which nation have the right for the land, I don't care and I don't give a ****, nothing to do with the US government.


----------



## Beast

Soryu said:


> Oh, really !? Seem like I wasn't catch the show in here, cause my life still busy.
> Well, we have our fun in here to troll to each other, don't tell me you didn't do that.
> 
> Sohu and tiexue forum are very exciting right now with event, you don't know that !?


 We never troll. PLAN can easily crushed VPN and vietnam is just an egg. While China is more powerful and she is the stone against Vietnam. All this is facts. 
Look at the number of fighter jet PLANAF and number of advance warship we.owned against VPN. You definitely know the truth.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

Beast said:


> We never troll. PLAN can easily crushed VPN and vietnam is just an egg. While China is more powerful and she is the stone against Vietnam. All this is facts.
> Look at the number of fighter jet PLANAF and number of advance warship we.owned against VPN. You definitely know the truth.


Oh, I know "the truth" ... but still, here we stand.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## sincity

Start a freaking war over SCS already, whoever win the war will temporary own the island, either blow the island with nukes, negotiate to share the oil exploration together or starting a war over those island, someone need to fire a 1st shot or sit down to negotiate a deal.


----------



## Pangu

The oil rig is within China's 200nm EEZ in reference to Zhongjian Island. Why should we remove our oil rig from our EEZ?


----------



## Alfa-Fighter

xudeen said:


> The oil rig is within China's 200nm EEZ in reference to Zhongjian Island. Why should we remove our oil rig from our EEZ?


it is more closer of Vietnam main land , to technically it belong to Vietnam, 200 NM from china dose means it can end up on land of Vietnam, It divided equally.



Alfa-Fighter said:


> it is more closer of Vietnam main land , to technically it belong to Vietnam, 200 NM from china dose means it can end up on land of Vietnam, It divided equally.



If India start claiming as per china law India owns the 90% of Indian ocean from where Chinese ships passes. Andaman and laskshdeep.


----------



## KAL-EL

Why all the hysteria and chest thumping?


----------



## Soryu

xudeen said:


> The oil rig is within China's 200nm EEZ in reference to Zhongjian Island. Why should we remove our oil rig from our EEZ?





Alfa-Fighter said:


> it is more closer of Vietnam main land , to technically it belong to Vietnam, 200 NM from china dose means it can end up on land of Vietnam, It divided equally.
> 
> 
> 
> If India start claiming as per china law India owns the 90% of Indian ocean from where Chinese ships passes. Andaman and laskshdeep.


It's xudeen delusion mind.
Tri Ton Island (or Zhongjian Island) is just a reef, even they're control Phu Lam Island with a big military base on there, it's not mean they have EEZ with those Islands.


----------



## sweetgrape

Rechoice said:


> China can build more rigs. good business for corrouption leadership in China.
> 
> China can not swalow our Islands, kid.


Oh, so china build rigs is just for corruptied leadership? very interesting logic, from territory dispute to corruption, and connect them, you are "genius", hehe!
Find many vietnamese here have many weird logic, can't understand.


----------



## Soryu

Update news:

At this morning, Chinese was increase their forces with some big transport and support ships.
Some Chinese ships with high speed was try to crush Vietnamese ships formation ...

PRC has over 100 ships (coast guard, military, armed fishing-ship, big tug, support ships ...), Vietnam has over 30 ships, and still reinforce ...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

bolo said:


> You can say Europeans illegally occupied North America, but you will be laughed at and possibly get your teeth kicked in by Americans.



China signed with Japan that Taiwan + Senkaku belong to Japan, base on you logic Japan could claim North East China belong to Japan too.


----------



## ViXuyen

Beast said:


> We never troll. PLAN can easily crushed VPN and vietnam is just an egg. While China is more powerful and she is the stone against Vietnam. All this is facts.
> Look at the number of fighter jet PLANAF and number of advance warship we.owned against VPN. You definitely know the truth.


Are you taunting us?

Considering the position of the standoff is about 250 km away from Vietnam's coast; your navy is not in a very good shape my friend. Our shore-based AShM like Shaddock (550 km), Yakhont (300 km), and possibly the Kh-35 (280 km) can send your surface fleet to the bottom of the ocean in a snap. Our Airforce won't need to engage you directly; they can pick and choose when to shoot and scoot the Kh-59MK AShM (285 km) at your fleet. We have mobilized for war already and we are just waiting for you to fire the first shot.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

sweetgrape said:


> Oh, so china build rigs is just for corruptied leadership? very interesting logic, from territory dispute to corruption, and connect them, you are "genius", hehe!
> Find many vietnamese here have many weird logic, can't understand.



corruption regime in China used such idiot fake nationalism to make their business, they have to do something even though stupid when such fake toy completed.

Its shameful for China when they can't do the same tactic with Japan.

cowardice Chinese.


----------



## Daymadi

TaiShang said:


> *China requires Vietnam to stop any form of disruptions of Chinese company's operations*
> 
> *Xinhua, 2014-5-9*
> 
> A Chinese Foreign Ministry official on Thursday *urged the Vietnamese side to stop any form of disruption of Chinese company's normal oil drilling in waters administered by China.*
> 
> Yi Xianliang, Deputy Director-General of the Department of Boundary and Ocean Affairs of the Foreign Ministry of China, held a press briefing together with Li Yong, CEO of China Oilfield Services Limited (COSL), on China's drilling operations in southern waters to the Zhongjian Island of the Xisha Islands of China.
> 
> Yi said that since May 2,* Vietnam has carried out intensive disruptions of Chinese company's normal oil drilling in waters administered by China. China is deeply surprised and shocked*.
> 
> Yi said that *the Xisha Islands are inherent territory of China and there are no disputes in this area. This operation is undertaken by COSL, and it is a normal drilling activity in the coastal waters of the Xisha Islands of China.*
> 
> *The waters of the operation, which is only 17 nautical miles away from the Zhongjian Island is completely within waters off China's Xisha Islands, he said, adding that it is 130-150 nautical miles away from Vietnam.*
> 
> Chinese company's operation in waters off the Xisha Islands completely falls within China's sovereignty, sovereign rights and jurisdiction, Yi stressed.
> 
> Yi said that *10 years ago, Chinese companies have been operating in these waters. From last May to June, Chinese companies carried out 3-D seismic operations in these waters. This operation is only a routine continuation of our operation in these waters of the past decade*.
> 
> Soon after the Chinese oil rig arrived at the scene of the operation on May 2,* the Vietnamese side dispatched 6 vessels which took the first move to deliberately ram into Chinese government ships at the scene of the operation forcefully in an attempt to disrupt China's drilling operations, *according to Yi.
> 
> Since May 3, *Vietnam has sent more vessels to the scene and for many times rammed into Chinese government ships,* he added.
> 
> China has for many times *required the Vietnamese side to follow international practices and heed and respect the navigation notice issued by China's maritime authorities*, so as to uphold maritime production and operation order and navigation safety, Yi said.
> 
> However, the Vietnamese side sent additional ships to the scene and continued to ram into Chinese vessels at the scene, said Yi, noting that *from May 3 to 7, in a short period of 5 days, Vietnam had dispatched 36 vessels of various kinds which rammed Chinese vessels for as much as 171 times*.
> 
> The Chinese vessels at the scene are only government vessels and civil vessels, Yi said, but the Vietnamese side has many armed vessels deployed to the scene.
> 
> In the course of collision, *the Chinese side also found frogmen sent by the Vietnamese side 5 meters away from the Chinese government vessels, Yi said, adding that the Vietnamese side also placed many fishing nets and large obstacles in the waters, not only posing security threats to Chinese vessels and facilities, but also jeopardizing normal navigation security,* he said.
> 
> Vietnam's disruptions of the Chinese company's normal activities have seriously violated China's sovereignty, sovereignty rights and jurisdiction, gravely affected the normal order of production and operation and the safety of China's rig, and caused unnecessary troubles for China-Vietnam relations, said Yi.
> 
> Yi said that the Chinese side had to take more security measures in response to Vietnam's disruptions, so as to ensure the order of maritime operation and the safety of navigation.
> 
> China has exercised enormous restraint when dealing with provocations by the Vietnamese side, he stressed.
> 
> *To date, the Chinese side has communicated with the Vietnamese side for 14 times through diplomatic channels, calling on the Vietnamese side to respect China's legitimate rights and interests, come to its senses, stop all forms of disruption and remove immediately all vessels and personnel from the scene*, according to Yi.
> 
> Yi said that relations between China and Vietnam have experienced steady improvements in recent years. Leaders of the two parties and two states have reached important consensus on strengthening traditional friendship, deepening strategic cooperation and properly handling sensitive issues.
> 
> In 2011, China and Vietnam reached the agreement on the basic principles guiding the settlement of maritime issues between China and Vietnam and also launched the consultation of two working groups, one on maritime cooperation in low-sensitive areas and the other on joint development of waters outside the mouth of the Beibu Bay, he said.
> 
> In 2013, China and Vietnam identified the overall strategy to develop maritime, land and financial cooperation in parallel which created new prospects for China-Vietnam relations, Yi said, adding that the working group on maritime joint development has held two rounds of consultation and achieved positive progress.
> 
> *China and Vietnam are neighbors and brothers linked by rivers and mountains*, he said, adding that the Chinese side believes that t*he two countries have the capacity and wisdom to solve the problem.*
> 
> The Chinese side hopes that the Vietnamese side will cherish what the two have achieved in bilateral relations which does not come easily and work hard to improve bilateral relations together with China, according to Yi.



Too many words, any image available? or chinese's "civil" vessels have no camera but many guns

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## TaiShang

Daymadi said:


> Too many words, any image available? or chinese's "civil" vessels have no camera but many guns



There are warships, I think, deployed to the area, at the moment, and the article I posted above says it clearly. 

Why should China share images and videos with others? China does not recognize Vietnamese action, so, is not obliged to provide any proof. 

China is not in the defensive. Wordiness best describes the Vietnamese. No Chinese officials other than spokespersons addressed the issue as yet.


----------



## Soryu

TaiShang said:


> There are warships, I think, deployed to the area, at the moment, and the article I posted above says it clearly.
> 
> Why should China share images and videos with others? China does not recognize Vietnamese action, so, is not obliged to provide any proof.
> 
> China is not in the defensive. Wordiness best describes the Vietnamese. No Chinese officials other than spokespersons addressed the issue as yet.


Almost your ship has gun and armed men, include fishing-ship ...
PRC media just try to pretend like victim ... LOL

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

TaiShang said:


> *China requires Vietnam to stop any form of disruptions of Chinese company's operations*
> 
> *Xinhua, 2014-5-9*
> 
> A Chinese Foreign Ministry official on Thursday *urged the Vietnamese side to stop any form of disruption of Chinese company's normal oil drilling in waters administered by China.*
> 
> Yi Xianliang, Deputy Director-General of the Department of Boundary and Ocean Affairs of the Foreign Ministry of China, held a press briefing together with Li Yong, CEO of China Oilfield Services Limited (COSL), on China's drilling operations in southern waters to the Zhongjian Island of the Xisha Islands of China.
> 
> Yi said that since May 2,* Vietnam has carried out intensive disruptions of Chinese company's normal oil drilling in waters administered by China. China is deeply surprised and shocked*.
> 
> Yi said that *the Xisha Islands are inherent territory of China and there are no disputes in this area. This operation is undertaken by COSL, and it is a normal drilling activity in the coastal waters of the Xisha Islands of China.*
> 
> *The waters of the operation, which is only 17 nautical miles away from the Zhongjian Island is completely within waters off China's Xisha Islands, he said, adding that it is 130-150 nautical miles away from Vietnam.*
> 
> Chinese company's operation in waters off the Xisha Islands completely falls within China's sovereignty, sovereign rights and jurisdiction, Yi stressed.
> 
> Yi said that *10 years ago, Chinese companies have been operating in these waters. From last May to June, Chinese companies carried out 3-D seismic operations in these waters. This operation is only a routine continuation of our operation in these waters of the past decade*.
> 
> Soon after the Chinese oil rig arrived at the scene of the operation on May 2,* the Vietnamese side dispatched 6 vessels which took the first move to deliberately ram into Chinese government ships at the scene of the operation forcefully in an attempt to disrupt China's drilling operations, *according to Yi.
> 
> Since May 3, *Vietnam has sent more vessels to the scene and for many times rammed into Chinese government ships,* he added.
> 
> China has for many times *required the Vietnamese side to follow international practices and heed and respect the navigation notice issued by China's maritime authorities*, so as to uphold maritime production and operation order and navigation safety, Yi said.
> 
> However, the Vietnamese side sent additional ships to the scene and continued to ram into Chinese vessels at the scene, said Yi, noting that *from May 3 to 7, in a short period of 5 days, Vietnam had dispatched 36 vessels of various kinds which rammed Chinese vessels for as much as 171 times*.
> 
> The Chinese vessels at the scene are only government vessels and civil vessels, Yi said, but the Vietnamese side has many armed vessels deployed to the scene.
> 
> In the course of collision, *the Chinese side also found frogmen sent by the Vietnamese side 5 meters away from the Chinese government vessels, Yi said, adding that the Vietnamese side also placed many fishing nets and large obstacles in the waters, not only posing security threats to Chinese vessels and facilities, but also jeopardizing normal navigation security,* he said.
> 
> Vietnam's disruptions of the Chinese company's normal activities have seriously violated China's sovereignty, sovereignty rights and jurisdiction, gravely affected the normal order of production and operation and the safety of China's rig, and caused unnecessary troubles for China-Vietnam relations, said Yi.
> 
> Yi said that the Chinese side had to take more security measures in response to Vietnam's disruptions, so as to ensure the order of maritime operation and the safety of navigation.
> 
> China has exercised enormous restraint when dealing with provocations by the Vietnamese side, he stressed.
> 
> *To date, the Chinese side has communicated with the Vietnamese side for 14 times through diplomatic channels, calling on the Vietnamese side to respect China's legitimate rights and interests, come to its senses, stop all forms of disruption and remove immediately all vessels and personnel from the scene*, according to Yi.
> 
> Yi said that relations between China and Vietnam have experienced steady improvements in recent years. Leaders of the two parties and two states have reached important consensus on strengthening traditional friendship, deepening strategic cooperation and properly handling sensitive issues.
> 
> In 2011, China and Vietnam reached the agreement on the basic principles guiding the settlement of maritime issues between China and Vietnam and also launched the consultation of two working groups, one on maritime cooperation in low-sensitive areas and the other on joint development of waters outside the mouth of the Beibu Bay, he said.
> 
> In 2013, China and Vietnam identified the overall strategy to develop maritime, land and financial cooperation in parallel which created new prospects for China-Vietnam relations, Yi said, adding that the working group on maritime joint development has held two rounds of consultation and achieved positive progress.
> 
> *China and Vietnam are neighbors and brothers linked by rivers and mountains*, he said, adding that the Chinese side believes that t*he two countries have the capacity and wisdom to solve the problem.*
> 
> The Chinese side hopes that the Vietnamese side will cherish what the two have achieved in bilateral relations which does not come easily and work hard to improve bilateral relations together with China, according to Yi.


inherent territory of China my ***!
proof it!

Vietnam government plans to bring Chinese agrression to the next ASEAN summit in Burma. We will make an united front against China.
and our foreign minister is expected to travel to America soon.

Plus we will likely join the Phillipines to sue you on the international court.

You have intentionally escalated the tension. Everything has a price.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

bolo said:


> Even if China can, do you really want to educate, feed and civilize 1 billion people?



they are brainwashed.


----------



## Viet

xunzi said:


> Very clever tactic to round up, my friend.
> 
> 1. Your EEZ is overlapping with our controlled territorial water. The equidistant principle of UNCLOS applied here because of overlapping. The international law regarding overlapping water is to settle diplomatically between two parties. The trouble is you have been reluctant to do it bilaterally. We are forcing your hand, that all, my friend.
> 2.. It is not illegal. Go look up UNCLOS in reference to our declaration before ratifying. We never accept any country EEZ if it overlaps with our territorial base.
> 3. We did obey. It's true who misleading fact. Do I need to bring up our declaration before signing off on UNCLOS?


you don´t get it.

we never recognise your occupation of the Paracels.
until yet, the government tolerates this status quo. nothing more.

as you put an oild rig and dispatch warships into our EEZ, that runs clearly against the agreement.



zDragonFlyz said:


> I just wonder does any chinese man/woman have a clue about the UN Laws of Sea - what China has signed? Any knowledge about Territorial Sea and Contiguous Zone, Exclusive Economic Zone, Continental Shelf? I thought they are educated somehow. Or their authorities just brainwashed them all?


the Chinese use this argument:
"Everything is mine (since ancient times), as China is everywhere. if anyone opposes it, then I point my weapon at him."

No doubt, China is the new hooligan of Asia.


----------



## Fukuoka

> China warns Philippines to stop provocation and release kidnapped Chinese fishermen immediately


MANILA, May 7 (Xinhua) -- Chinese embassy in Manila urged the Philippines on Wednesday to "take no more provocative action" after 11 Chinese fishermen were seized by Philippine police near Half Moon Shoal of Nansha Islands.

Chinese embassy spokesman Zhang Hua said in a statement that the embassy had already lodged representations with the Philippine side upon learning of the incident.

What has the Philippines done seriously infringed upon the sovereign rights and maritime rights of China, Zhang said.

He urged the Philippine side to "immediately" release detained Chinese fishermen, return their properties and ensure no more similar infringement acts are taken in future.

The spokesman reiterated that China has indisputable sovereign rights over the sea area, including the Half Moon Shoal of Nansha Islands, where the incident occurred.

The Philippine Department of Foreign Affairs (DFA) on Wednesday confirmed the arrest of the Chinese fishermen.

The DFA explained that such actions were not meant to raise tensions with China.
Chinese FM demands immediate release of detained fishermen - CCTV News - CCTV.com English


Embedded media from this media site is no longer available


----------



## Pangu

Triton Island aka ZhongJian Dao

Deny all you want but this island is de fecto China territory that comes with the stipulated rights to our claim within the 200nm EEZ.




















For reference, US territorial islands in Hawaii with their respective 200nm EEZ.






Try arguing with that.


----------



## BoQ77

Kyle Sun said:


> 10B dollars toy can make 10000B oil or gas. We know the math, no thanks.





xudeen said:


> The oil rig is within China's 200nm EEZ in reference to Zhongjian Island. Why should we remove our oil rig from our EEZ?



Vietnam and China already divided the sea area inside Gulf of Tonkin without problem, even there is a bundle of overlapping zone ...






Using a tiny reef ( Triton ) at the far edge of Paracels Islands ( Hoang Sa islands ) which is robbed by China from Vietnam, against long coast of Vietnam mainland ... is a joke ...

For that, you think that Senkaku island controlled by Japan could used to claim for Japan EEZ 200 nm to China off coast ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Krueger

*ASEAN Leaders Summit to Take Place Amid South China Sea Concerns*

*ASEAN leaders will meet this weekend and China will be at the top of the agenda.*






By Ankit Panda
May 09, 2014






Leaders from the ten member countries of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) will meet in in Napyidaw, Myanmar this weekend. The meeting is historic due to its venue: Myanmar is hosting an ASEAN summit for the first time. However, the meeting unfortunately coincides with two major maritime disputes between two ASEAN states and China. Vietnam’s tryst with China over an oil rig near the disputed Paracel Islands and the Philippines detention of a Chinese fishing boat in the disputed waters of the Second Thomas Shoal will ensure that managing maritime disputes with China will top the agenda as the leaders meet in Napyidaw.

The timing of the summit could encourage both the Philippines and Vietnam, and the remaining ASEAN countries, to revisit the regional organization’s bid to develop effective multilateral means to manage the various disputes in the South China Sea. It is highly unlikely that the leaders would convene in Napyidaw and issue any sort of joint condemnation of Chinese behavior (not in the least owing to the host country’s complicated relationship with China). Instead, ASEAN leaders are likely to do what they have done in the past: emphasize international law, encourage restraint, and call for diplomacy.

More specifically, the timing of the summit with these two acute flare-ups in the South China Sea should be a rude reminder that ASEAN should double-down on its efforts to set in stone a binding code of conduct for the South China Sea. Without any such concerted effort, China is unlikely to reconsider its behavior in the South China Sea. As _Flashpoints_ blogger Carl Thayer told the _South China Morning Post_, ”Asean protestations will not move China one inch.”

The prospects for this summit leading to a breakthrough on a code of conduct are slim. The watershed document in this area, the 2002 Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea, signed between all the ASEAN states and China, is proving insufficient in managing contemporary tensions. As Malcolm Cook notes for the _Lowy Interpreter_, the 2014 summit will really test the mettle and conviction of ASEAN states to make good on their intention to enforce the 2002 Declaration. Chinese action in recent weeks, both against Vietnam and the Philippines, violates the declaration.

One of the worse potential outcomes of this weekend’s summit is that ASEAN leaders will leave Napyidaw having said or done nothing about Chinese behavior in the South China Sea or a code of conduct. Implicitly, such a result would expose the diplomatic fault-lines present within the 10-member association. Both Manila and Hanoi will be vocal in their pursuit of at least a joint statement on the South China Sea. Filipino Foreign Ministry spokesman Charles C. Jose told _The Wall Street Journal _that he expects ASEAN to reiterate its “grave concern over the recent developments in the South China Sea, as well as Asean’s strong resolve to uphold the rule of law.”

ASEAN leaders themselves remain divided over the urgency they ascribe to the China issue and the policies they would like to pursue to resolve South China Sea disputes. In particular, given that China is a major trade partner for each state in the region, the countries without disputes with China are not eager to participate in an inflammatory statement against China given the risk of damaging their political and economic relationships with Beijing. China’s approach of avoiding multilateral forums for addressing maritime disputes has worked to the extent that it has paralyzed ASEAN’s ability to respond in unison to China’s assertion of its territorial claims in the South China Sea. Indeed the July 2012 ASEAN foreign ministers’ meeting in Cambodia offers a stark reminder of what disunity can look like within the association.

For Myanmar, the historic occasion of hosting its first ASEAN Summit and joining the comity of Southeast Asian nations as a state in transition will likely be overshadowed by a fixation on China. Although Myanmar’s reforms under the leadership of Thein Sein has reduced its dependence on China, it maintains cordial relations with Beijing and is unlikely to risk this over South China Sea maritime disputes.

ASEAN Leaders Summit to Take Place Amid South China Sea Concerns | The Diplomat

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

The main problem is clearly China robbed Paracels from Vietnam in 1956, 1974 ...
So they deny to continue identifying the boundary at the Mouth of Gulf of Tonkin ...
if they continue, they must draw the line through the gap between Paracels vs Hainan ...

You could see how nonsense the U-shaped line ...

China is trying to repeat the Scarborough shoal again, ...
but Vietnam would not let them do the same


----------



## +4vsgorillas-Apebane

Rechoice said:


> 10, 100 or 1,000 year or forever ? he he. stupid boy and kiddo leadership of China don't understand.



We know those numbers well enough. In fact we have occupied you 10, 100, and even 1000 years.


----------



## Kyle Sun

Soryu said:


> Update news:
> 
> At this morning, Chinese was increase their forces with some big transport and support ships.
> Some Chinese ships with high speed was try to crush Vietnamese ships formation ...
> 
> PRC has over 100 ships (coast guard, military, armed fishing-ship, big tug, support ships ...), Vietnam has over 30 ships, and still reinforce ...


armed fishing -ship ???

Show me the picture.


----------



## TaiShang

bolo said:


> I dunno about you, but i am tired of flowery language. That is partially the reason why these small countries are not afraid of China and think Chinese are weaklings. Imagine if it was Vietnamese boats ramming American , s korean, japanese or russian boats?



I think in diplomacy, flowery language/soft rhetoric makes you look even more dominating. The US (until Hillary and Kerry) actually maintained that soft tone even on the eve of an invasion.

So long as China does what it likes and no body harms its interests, no need to change that just because some war of words. Heated rhetoric often makes one look out of control, crazy and powerless. I forgot how many angry words the Turkey leader hurled at Israeli leadership, often going beyond the limits of civility, let alone diplomacy. The result is, no body takes his words seriously. He is a lone lunatic now.

*We want our leadership to be respected and feared not because they speak loudly, but because they speak softly.*

Believe me, not even one of these weakling leadership thinks China is powerless or too soft. They know better than their clueless citizenry.

Personally, I do not want to see the Chinese government to be barking at every tree. Let the small countries do that. As the regional leader and soon-to-be global leader, China is bound to get a lot of attention, jealousy, and hatred (as well as a lot of admiration). We probably will have to learn to live with that. USers learned to live with the label "Ugly American." Do they give a rat's back to that? No. We should not, either, when others bark at us.

In my view, no higher level than the spokesperson should bother to respond to criticism, even if the criticism comes directly from thick-skin Kerry, let alone the Phil or Viet. That shows greatness.


In the meanwhile, war of words continues. RT reports:

‘US has no right’: China responds to comments over its $1 billion rig in S. China Sea — RT News

China has sharply responded to US comments regarding the oil rig Beijing is setting up in the South China Sea. The $1 billion rig sparked a new row with Vietnam blaming China for intentionally ramming its vessels in a disputed area.

_*"The United States has no right to complain about China's activities within the scope of its own sovereignty,"*_ Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying said at the daily briefing on Wednesday.

The statement was made in response to the US State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki’s comment in which she criticized _“China's decision to operate its oil rig in disputed waters”_ and called it_“provocative and unhelpful to the maintenance of peace and stability in the region."_

The row comes less than a week after China National Offshore Oil Corp. placed the rig about 220 kilometers (140 miles) off the Vietnamese coast on May 2.

Vietnam “strongly opposed” the events in the South China Sea and considered them a violation of their sovereignty. State-owned Vietnam Oil & Gas, known as PetroVietnam, demanded China’s state-run company stops activities and removes the rig.

China, at the same time, insists that the oil rig was erected in Chinese waters.

_*"The disruptive activities by the Vietnamese side are in violation of China's sovereign rights,"*_ Hua Chunying said.

In a new development of the conflict, Vietnam blamed Chinese ships for “intentionally” ramming and spraying water cannons at Vietnamese vessels trying to stop Beijing from moving forward with the drillings.

The incident reportedly took place back on May, 4, however, it has been made public only now.

_"On May 4, Chinese ships intentionally rammed two Vietnamese Sea Guard vessels,"_ said Tran Duy Hai, a foreign ministry official and deputy head of Vietnam's national border committee.

Vietnam dispatched up to 29 ships to the area near the oil rig when it became aware of China’s intentions on May 2.

*A video of Chinese ships ramming into Vietnamese ones and firing high-powered water cannons at them was shown at the news conference.

Thu said similar incidents had repeatedly occurred over the last three days and stressed that Vietnam was not carrying out any offensive actions in waters close to the rig.*

*However, according to AP citing a Vietnamese official who requested anonymity, the ships were trying to stop the rig from “establishing a fixed position” at the spot where it wanted to drill.*

*At the same time, China previously announced that no foreign ships would be allowed within a 4.8-kilometer radius of the rig.*

China has not yet responded to the Vietnamese allegations of ramming.

Vietnam does not rule out that the dispute might be taken to international arbitration.

_"We cannot exclude any measures, including international legal action, as long as it is peaceful,”_ the Vietnamese foreign ministry official Tran Duy Hai said as cited by Reuters. _"If this situation goes too far, we will use all measures in line with international law to protect our territory. We have limitations, but we will stand up to any Chinese aggression."_

....


----------



## Soryu

Kyle Sun said:


> armed fishing -ship ???
> 
> Show me the picture.


Pictures are not released yet (only by Vietnam Maritime Police and Ministry of Foreign Affair).
PRC fishing ship is big (80-100 tons) and made by steel armed with machine gun and AK.


----------



## KAL-EL

As an outsider to this ongoing conflict, I'm trying to understand all these maps.


----------



## Krueger

*9 May 2014

Scores of US and Filipino marines launched mock assaults on a South China Sea beach in the Philippines on Friday in war games aimed at honing the allies' combat skills.*






*SAN ANTONIO, Philippines: Scores of US and Filipino marines launched mock assaults on a South China Sea beach in the Philippines on Friday in war games aimed at honing the allies' combat skills.*

The exercise came as tensions simmer between the Philippines and China over rival claims to the strategic waters.

Three US rubber raiding craft and two small-unit Filipino riverine boats made repeated sallies at a desolate beach at a northern Philippines navy base in a practise stealth landing of squads of armed marines.

Shouting "Volume Fire!" and "Bounce Up", the teams scrambled up the sloping shore with assault rifles to surround a mocked-up enemy tent before running back to their boats in rapid manoeuvres.

"We're here for the sake of training, to build up and develop our capabilities," US Marines spokesman Captain Jeremy Scheier told AFP when asked if they had a specific enemy target in mind.

"There was no specific scenario," he said, adding that Friday's exercises began well before dawn and involved about 40 US and 80 Filipino marines.

About 5,500 US and Filipino forces are taking part in the annual war games over a two-week period.

At the opening ceremony in Manila last week, Filipino Foreign Secretary Albert del Rosario said this year's joint manoeuvres were designed to help the hosts boost their "maritime capability" to address "challenges" in the South China Sea.

The Philippines, which signed a mutual defence treaty with the United States in 1951, has been involved in increasingly tense maritime confrontations with regional power China, which claims most of the sea including waters close to its neighbours.

The United States has said it takes no position in the territorial dispute.

However, US President Barack Obama, on a state visit to Manila last week, warned China against using force in territorial disputes and said Washington would support Manila in the event of an attack. 

*In the latest incident on Tuesday, Filipino police detained a Chinese-flagged fishing vessel and detained its 11 crew members.

It has ignored a Chinese demand to free the vessel and crew.*

Philippine military spokeswoman Navy Lieutenant Annaleah Cazcarro said the amphibious landing exercises also involved two Filipino navy ships serving as launch pads about 3.7 kilometres (two nautical miles) offshore.

"This was planned years before," she told AFP when asked if the exercises had any bearing on the latest maritime incident involving China, which the Philippines said occurred near Half Moon Shoal, 106 kilometres west of the large western Philippine island of Palawan.

The Philippines on March 30 filed a formal plea asking a United Nations arbitration tribunal to declare as illegal what Manila said was Beijing's claim to 70 per cent of the South China Sea.

The seabed in the area is believed to contain huge deposits of oil and gas and the waters straddle vital sea lanes.

Beijing has rejected UN arbitration and urged Manila to settle the dispute through bilateral talks instead.

- AFP

US, Philippine marines launch South China Sea drills - Channel NewsAsia

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Kyle Sun

Soryu said:


> Pictures are not released yet (only by Vietnam Maritime Police and Ministry of Foreign Affair).
> PRC fishing ship is big (80-100 tons) and made by steel armed with machine gun and AK.


Do you really believe this ?

If so , why Phi can arrest our fishing men?

If they do have machine gun or even one pistol , I am sure they will shoot the Phi in case they are threatened .


----------



## Viet

a Vietnamese coastguard vessel with cannon
the force is ordered not shoot first. the Chinese seem wanting to provoke Vietnam to fire first, so they have a pretext to start the war.








encounter at sea, rear: Vietnamese, front: Chinese
the situation is described as very tense.







in Vietnamese media: the front page

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

* May 07 2014 *
*STATEMENT BY SENATOR JOHN MCCAIN ON CONFLICT BETWEEN CHINA AND VIETNAM IN SOUTH CHINA SEA*
*Washington, D.C.* – U.S. Senator John McCain (R-AZ) today released the following statement on the latest reports regarding the escalating conflict between China and Vietnam over a Chinese oil rig near the Paracel Islands:

“China’s decision to begin drilling for oil off the coast of Vietnam, and its deployment of dozens of naval vessels to support that provocative action, is deeply concerning and serves only to escalate tensions in the South China Sea. Chinese ships have swarmed and rammed Vietnamese Sea Guard vessels in yet another instance of aggressive maritime harassment. There should be no doubt that China bears full responsibility for this unilateral attempt to change the status quo.

“These Chinese actions rest on territorial claims that have no basis in international law. In fact, China’s drilling is occurring squarely within Vietnam’s Exclusive Economic Zone, as defined clearly under international law. It is incumbent upon on all responsible nations to insist that China’s leaders take immediate steps to deescalate tensions and revert to the status quo ante.”

--------------------------------------------

*Faleomavaega Condemns China for Violating Vietnam's Sovereignty in South China Sea; Calls for Strong and Clear U.S. Response*
May 8, 2014
Press Release
Washington, D.C. - Ranking Member Eni Faleomavaega of the House Foreign Affairs Subcommittee on Asia and the Pacific, which has broad jurisdiction for U.S. policy affecting the region, including Vietnam and China, strongly condemns China for violating Vietnam’s sovereignty in the South China Sea and calls upon the U.S. to issue a clear and decisive statement of response. 

“On May 2, China anchored HD981 rig in Vietnamese waters and deployed dozens of naval vessels to support its provocative actions,” Faleomavaega said. “On May 3 and May 5, China issued notices banning all vessels from entering the area and stating that HD981 rig will conduct exploratory drilling. HD981 is anchored within the Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ) and continental shelf of Vietnam, about 120 nautical miles from Ly Son island of Vietnam.”

“I thank U.S. Senator John McCain for his leadership in unequivocally stating that China’s territorial claims to these waters have no basis in international law. Simply put, China’s provocative actions are an escalation of its intent to threaten peace and maritime security in the East Sea.”

“Since 2009, China has escalated its claims of the ‘nine-dash line’, cut the ship cables of the ‘Binh Minh II’ and ‘Viking II’ (May and June 2011), established “Sansha City” (June 2012), implemented ‘measures to enforce ‘Fishery Law of the People’s Republic of China’ (entering into force since January 2014), enhanced oil explorations in disputed areas, attacked Vietnamese fishing vessels, launched patrol boats, and conducted military exercises in the South China Sea to flex its power and deter other claimants.”

“All the while the U.S. response has been negligible, although the House Foreign Affairs Subcommittee on Asia and the Pacific has held hearings on the matter and several Members, including myself, have introduced Resolutions to promote a peaceful and collaborative resolution to any and all disputes in the South China Sea.”

“I am especially disappointed by the U.S. State Department’s weak response to China’s recent aggression. U.S. State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki stated, _“Vietnam has declared a 200-nautical-mile exclusive economic zone based on its coast line in accordance with the law of the sea. Then we call on China because China has a different view on that. That’s why we continue to call on both sides not to take provocative or unilateral actions given this is occurring in disputed waters near those islands and these events, of course, point to the need for claimants to clarify their claims in accordance with international law and reach agreement of what types of activities should be permissible within disputed areas such as these waters.”_

“I call upon the State Department to issue a more clear, definitive and concise statement than this. Once more, as Senator McCain stated, China’s claims have no basis in international law, and the U.S. State Department should not shirk from saying so. I join with Senator McCain in calling upon China’s leaders to take immediate steps to de-escalate tensions, and I call upon the U.S. to lead the way. For historical purposes, I have entered a statement in the Congressional Record with supporting documentation so that there is no dispute about the facts or about where I stand,” Faleomavaega concluded.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

Kyle Sun said:


> Do you really believe this ?
> 
> If so , why Phi can arrest our fishing men?
> 
> If they do have machine gun or even one pistol , I am sure they will shoot the Phi in case they are threatened .


Er hem ... Are you naive for real !??
The fishing-ship was arrested by Philippines is smaller ship with fishing-men go to catch sea Turtle.
But other fishing-ships are used for ram and protect your oil rig and they're armed.



KAL-EL said:


> As an outsider to this ongoing conflict, I'm trying to understand all these maps.


It's simple, Chinese Government want to own water areas inside 9-dash-lines, so they took Paracel, and a part of Spralty Islands, building military base, then they said these Islands and reef have 200nm EEZ.
Now, they proclaim it with their dirty game by used HD-981 oil rig.

On other side, Vietnamese proclaim sovereignty with only Paracel and Spratly, and Vietnam has 200nm EEZ follow UNCLOS.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Kyle Sun

Soryu said:


> Er hem ... Are you naive for real !??
> The fishing-ship was arrested by Philippines is smaller ship with fishing-men go to catch sea Turtle.
> But other fishing-ships are used for ram and protect your oil rig and they're armed.


Damn ,I really do not understand your logic. 

Now our coastguard ship is there . 

For what reason we need to use a fishing boat to fight your coastguard ship ??

Using fishing boat pretend to be unarmed ship ????

Viet Gov public a video of this incident , it is very clear our ships are not fishing boat but coastguard ship with big and clear sign .


----------



## TaiShang

Viet said:


> a Vietnamese coastguard vessel with cannon
> the force is ordered not shoot first. the Chinese seem wanting to provoke Vietnam to fire first, so they have a pretext to start the war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> encounter at sea, rear: Vietnamese, front: Chinese
> the situation is described as very tense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> in Vietnamese media



Good. Just keep the policy and stay away from the zone forbidden by China.

China will never shoot first so long as you do not intend or cause harm. 

A skirmish at sea with our Communist brothers is the last thing we want to see happen.


----------



## Viet

the Marines on night training

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

Vietnamese ships were repairing at Song Thu shipyard after collision with Chinese forces.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## BoQ77

KAL-EL said:


> As an outsider to this ongoing conflict, I'm trying to understand all these maps.



1. China has discrepancy right in their statement ... They use UNCLOS 1982 in the case benefit them, and ignore it when it not .
for its regulation of 200 nm of EEZ from coast of a country.

Overall, they "invent" the nine-dash-line which is official revealed in 2009 to claim entire of South China Sea, clearly this line not follow the regulation of UNCLOS 1982

2. China occupied Paracels Islands from South Vietnam under the observation of US, they even killed South Vietnam troops and kidnapped a US advisor ( of South Vietnam army ) in Paracels 1974.

This illegal occupation always was condemned by Vietnam, this could be consider disputed islands, because Chinese occupation never based on any convention, agreement, simply that's a robbery ...

3. China trying to use Paracels islands, and some tiny reef to apply UNCLOS 1982 and claim for its own EEZ 200nm while it not complied with UNCLOS ...

4. For overlapping zone, in Tonkin Gulf, Vietnam and China identified and agreed the boundary from continent to the Mouth of Tonkin Gulf ... the remain stuck because dispute about Paracels ...

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Daymadi

TaiShang said:


> Good. Just keep the policy and stay away from the zone forbidden by China.
> 
> China will never shoot first so long as you do not intend or cause harm.
> 
> A skirmish at sea with our Communist brothers is the last thing we want to see happen.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Soryu

Kyle Sun said:


> Damn ,I really do not understand your logic.
> 
> Now our coastguard ship is there .
> 
> For what reason we need to use a fishing boat to fight your coastguard ship ??
> 
> Using fishing boat pretend to be unarmed ship ????
> 
> Viet Gov public a video of this incident , it is very clear our ships are not fishing boat but coastguard ship with big and clear sign .


With more ship you have, you can make wider and stronger formation to cover area.
We're less ship than Chinese. Why should we go all around to take picture to prove it for you !? ( and we can't, and we no need to do that).
_*
The videos show off to prove PRC was useing big gun ships to attack Vietnamese ship in Vietnamese EEZ, not defend or peace talk anything like Chinese media and government said.*_

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## thangpham

Here is the map that show how greedy China is. That's obvious the U shape is no-sense.

Source: BBC

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Nike

sincity said:


> The **** I care if the war broke out in SCS, I meant not to drag me into your freaking bickering, I"m not represent the US government and you or Vietnamese poster in here don't represent either China or VietNam, stop blowing hot air about which nation have the right for the land, I don't care and I don't give a ****, nothing to do with the US government.



So why the **** you still bothering to posting your half-assess comment here? Get lost already


----------



## Krueger

May 9,2014

*If China continues its current activities in the Paracels without let-up, it is providing a pretext for key countries in Southeast Asia to unite in pushing harder for the immediate conclusion of the Code of Conduct in the South China Sea
*
Security tensions in the South China Sea have flared up again when Vietnam’s naval vessels collided with Chinese ships on Wednesday, May 7, in a serious attempt of Hanoi to prevent Beijing from stationing a US$1-billion oil rig, HD-981, in the Northwest Triton Island of the Paracels.

For Vietnam, the location of China’s oil rig belongs to Hanoi’s Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (EEZ/CS). Therefore, Vietnam considers the oil drilling activities of HD-981 as an apparent derogation not only of the sovereignty of Vietnam but also of the United Nations Convention of the Law of Sea (UNCLOS).

Both Vietnam and China are parties to UNCLOS. Vietnam warned China that it would take “all necessary measures” to compel China to remove the oil rig.

For China, however, the activities of HD-981 were normal petroleum activities of the state-owned China National Offshore Oil Corporation (CNOOC) in China’s territorial waters. China warned Vietnam not to disrupt CNOOC’s oil drilling projects in the Paracels, which the Chinese call the Xisha Islands.

The oil rig incident started on May 1, 2014, at around 5:22 am, when Vietnam discovered the deep water activities of HD-981, which was supported by 3 Chinese vessels. The location of the oil rig is around 130 nautical miles from the coast of Vietnam and 120 nautical miles from Vietnam’s Ly Son Island, which represents the 1 base point of Vietnam. This point falls within Vietnam’s petroleum Lot. 143 that belongs to its 200 nautical miles EEZ/CS.

To protect the activities of HD-981, China has deployed at least 80 vessels in the waters surrounding Triton Island.

*Tipping point?*

Tensions in the South China Sea are high again as the oil rig incident in the Paracel Islands can provide the tipping point of military encounters between the two parties. This military situation is something that all littoral states and user states in the South China Sea do not want to develop.

But China and Vietnam had the history of military battle in the Paracels in 1974, which started when Vietnam's navy attempted to expel Chinese fishing vessels from the waters surrounding the Paracels. China retaliated by sending the warships of the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) Navy in the contested island.

China won the battle resulting in China’s control of the Paracels. The battle caused the death of more than 50 Vietnamese soldiers and almost 20 Chinese soldiers. But Vietnam never surrendered its claims to the Paracels. In fact, Vietnam entered into direct negotiations with China to settle their territorial disputes peacefully in accordance with existing international laws, particularly the UNCLOS.

Since China started the operation of HD-981, Vietnam has conducted 6 bilateral meetings with China at various levels both in Hanoi and Beijing. But China remains intransigent in its position and reiterates its stand that the location of the activities of HD-981 is under the sovereign jurisdiction of China.

There is no doubt that the ongoing oil rig incident in the Paracels is destroying both countries’ strategic trust with each other. It is therefore imperative for Vietnam and China to rebuild their strategic trust if they want to maintain their good political relationship.

Otherwise, the deterioration of their political relationship will push Vietnam to follow the international arbitration option chosen by the Philippines. Vietnam can either join the Philippines in the case or submit a separate case.

If China continues its current activities in the Paracels without let-up, it is providing a pretext for key countries in Southeast Asia to unite in pushing harder for the immediate conclusion of the Code of Conduct in the South China Sea, particularly in the context of China’s activities in the Second Thomas Shoal being claimed by the Philippines, James Shoal being claimed by Malaysia, and Natuna Island being claimed by Indonesia.

What will Beijing do if Indonesia, Malaysia, the Philippines and Vietnam build a united front to deal with China in the South China Sea? Will China pursue strategic restraint or will it push more strategic assertions of its sovereignty claims?

Let’s continue to watch how this whole saga in the South China Sea will unfold.
*Will Vietnam follow the Philippines and file case vs China?
*

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Viet

warships on patrol









TaiShang said:


> Good. Just keep the policy and stay away from the zone forbidden by China.
> 
> China will never shoot first so long as you do not intend or cause harm.
> 
> A skirmish at sea with our Communist brothers is the last thing we want to see happen.


NO, you must leave the area. 

Otherwise not a skirmish, but an all-out war may happen.



Daymadi said:


>


nice pics, welcome to the forum.
is it Hanoi?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

Sure, we will

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## sincity

madokafc said:


> So why the **** you still bothering to posting your half-assess comment here? Get lost already


 

Because your mother **** respond to my fucking post you muslim terrorist.


----------



## Rechoice

+4vsgorillas-Apebane said:


> We know those numbers well enough. In fact we have occupied you 10, 100, and even 1000 years.


barbarian Mongolian, Manchus ruled you until 1911, Portugal ruled you until 1997, Britain ruled you until 1999.


----------



## BoQ77

xudeen said:


> How far away is the oil rig from Triton Island(中建岛)?



Triton Island is also the final resting place of the USNS Sgt. Jack J. Pendleton, which ran aground in 1973 while en route to Philippines from Vietnam.


----------



## Kyle Sun

Soryu said:


> With more ship you have, you can make wider and stronger formation to cover area.
> We're less ship than Chinese. Why should we go all around to take picture to prove it for you !? ( and we can't, and we no need to do that).
> _*The videos show off to prove PRC was useing big gun ships to attack Vietnamese ship in Vietnamese EEZ, not defend or peace talk anything like Chinese media and government said.*_



So it means you said we use armed fishing ship is groundless lie.

Your Gov use the video as evidence of Chinese invading , and now you say "*Why should we go all around to take picture to prove it for you !?"

Do you even understand what are you talking ?*


----------



## Daymadi

Viet said:


> nice pics, welcome to the forum.
> is it Hanoi?




Berlin, July 2011

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

China is enemy of Philippine and Vietnam. Why not ?

we will do every measure to protect our country sovereignty.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

*Aerial photography of Paracels ( Pattle Island ) showing military facility, weather station of South Vietnam ( taken *1968)






Tượng Phật Bà Quan Âm trên đảo Hoàng Sa






*Hình 4:* Rooftop of weather station management facility in Paracels (Pattle Island ) (taken 1969)






*Sovereign marking of Vietnam in Paracels* (Pattle Island) ( before 1974)

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

bolo said:


> I dunno about you, but i am tired of flowery language. That is partially the reason why these small countries are not afraid of China and think Chinese are weaklings. Imagine if it was Vietnamese boats ramming American , s korean, japanese or russian boats?


while your premier is underway in Africa to show the good side of China, you show your ugly face at home, to your closest neighbor Vietnam.

that is your language: violence and aggression


----------



## Gaber

sincity said:


> Because your mother **** respond to my fucking post you muslim terrorist.


Go home bro, you're drunk...


----------



## Viet

that is a step but we must go further taking further bolder steps, otherwise our enemies never stop.


negotiate as soon as possile a defence treaty with a great military power: America, Russia or Japan
accelerate the modernization of the army, especially the navy
buy nuclear subs
accquire nuclear deterrence


----------



## Soryu

Kyle Sun said:


> So it means you said we use armed fishing ship is groundless lie.
> 
> Your Gov use the video as evidence of Chinese invading , and now you say "*Why should we go all around to take picture to prove it for you !?"
> 
> Do you even understand what are you talking ?*


Oppsss ....
What the hell with your logic. 
Can We should go all round, and take picture of every Chinese ship in there, while our priority is make sure PRC rig can't operate as Chinese want.
And why did PRC armed fishing-ship go near to VN Maritime Police and get ram by our ships while they have more big coast guard ships to play with us. ?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Edison Chen

Failed states always have common language.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

Kyle Sun said:


> So it means you said we use armed fishing ship is groundless lie.
> 
> Your Gov use the video as evidence of Chinese invading , and now you say "*Why should we go all around to take picture to prove it for you !?"
> 
> Do you even understand what are you talking ?*



one word for you: Chinese aggressors, invaders go home.


----------



## Rechoice

Edison Chen said:


> Failed states always have common language.



China is big boy, but bad boy and has big mouth to lying.


----------



## Viet

Raphael said:


> Here's an article speculating about China's intentions:
> http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/CHIN-02-080514.html
> 
> The author thinks China is just practising on Vietnam. But the real target is the Philippines.


practising on Vietnam?
I believe that you run amok. Vietnam armed forces are on alert. you idiot.


----------



## revu

Rechoice said:


> they are brainwashed.


Get a mirror


----------



## Rechoice

terranMarine said:


> Always repeating the same old crap, it's the only nonsense answer you can come up with whenever you don't have the guts to admit you seek American help.



cold war is finished. China helped USA in this time, do good job.

Today, Vietnam and USA is two country in the world. we could work together for peace of region and for interest of both..



cirr said:


> Whistling in the dark？
> 
> Using the Butcher of Vietnam‘s naval assets？
> 
> Don't you guys have any self-esteem?
> 
> And if you think the Americans would shed their blood for you, you'd better go and see a doctor. Fast



nonsense troll kid. USA protect Taiwan, china is crying and crying,


----------



## Beast

Rechoice said:


> barbarian Mongolian, Manchus ruled you until 1911, Portugal ruled you until 1997, Britain ruled you until 1999.



Please look into the mirror before you talk. The Chinese and french rule your land before.


----------



## Kyle Sun

Soryu said:


> Oppsss ....
> What the hell with your logic.
> Can We should go all round, and take picture of every Chinese ship in there, while our priority is make sure PRC rig can't operate as Chinese want.
> And why did PRC armed fishing-ship go near to VN Maritime Police and get ram by our ships while they have more big coast guard ships to play with us. ?


Okay , I give up . We use armed fishing ships to protect our rig in spite of we have enough coastguard or navy ships



Rechoice said:


> one word for you: Chinese aggressors, invaders go home.


Get lost !


----------



## southeastasiansea

*CRITICAL QUESTIONS: CHINA-VIETNAM TENSIONS HIGH OVER DRILLING RIG IN DISPUTED*
_CSIS: Ernest Bower (@BowerCSIS) and Gregory Poling (@GregPoling)
May 7, 2014_
Tensions between China and Vietnam over the disputed South China Sea are at their highest levels in years. On May 2, the state-owned China National Offshore Oil Corporation (CNOOC) placed its deep sea drilling rig HD-981 in disputed waters south of the Paracel Islands. Vietnam objected to the placement, declaring that the is located on its continental shelf. China has since sent approximately 80 ships, including seven military vessels, along with aircraft to support the rig. In response, Hanoi dispatched 29 ships to attempt to disrupt the rig’s placement and operations.
The situation escalated dramatically on May 7, when Vietnam accused Chinese vessels of turning high powered water cannons on the Vietnamese ships and eventually ramming several vessels. The incidents reportedly left six Vietnamese injured and several of the country’s ships damaged. Hanoi released photos and videos of the incidents to support its claims.
The implications of these developments are significant. The fact that the Chinese moved ahead in placing their rig immediately after President Barack Obama’s visit to four Asian countries in late April underlines Beijing’s commitment to test the resolve of Vietnam, its Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) neighbors, and Washington. Beijing may also be attempting to substantially change the status quo by moving while it perceives Washington to be distracted by Russian aggression in the Ukraine, developments in Nigeria, and Syria. If China believes Washington is distracted, in an increasingly insular and isolationist mood, and unwilling to back up relatively strong security assertions made to Japan and the Philippines and repeated during President Obama’s trip, then these developments south of the Paracel Islands could have long term regional and global consequences.
*Q1: Where is the rig, really?*
A1: The war of words between Beijing and Hanoi has largely focused on the status of the area where HD-981 was placed. Vietnamese officials insist that it lies on their continental shelf, where according to the UN Convention on the Law of the Seas (UNCLOS), Vietnam has exclusive rights to all mineral and hydrocarbon resources.
The rig was placed near the edge of two hydrocarbon blocks already created by Hanoi, though not yet offered for exploitation to foreign oil and gas companies. It also sits near blocks 118 and 119, where U.S.-based ExxonMobil discovered substantial oil and gas reserves in 2011 and 2012. In 2013, Exxon and Vietnam’s state-owned PetroVietnam announced plans to build a $20 billion power plant to be fueled by the oil and gas from those blocks. Those discoveries help explain why CNOOC chose to place HD-981 nearby.
China’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs has responded to Vietnam’s complaints by insisting that the rig was placed “completely within the waters of China’s Paracel Islands.” This presumably refers to the 200 nautical mile exclusive economic zone and continental shelf that those islands—which are occupied by China but claimed by Vietnam—would generate under UNCLOS if they met certain requirements.
HD-981 was placed at 15°29’58’’ north latitude and 111°12’06’’ east longitude. It is about 120 nautical miles east of Vietnam’s Ly Son Island and 180 nautical miles south of China’s Hainan Island—the two nearest features that indisputably generate a continental shelf. As such, it not only sits on Vietnam’s claimed extended continental shelf, but also well on the Vietnamese side of any median line that might be negotiated between the two shelves from the Chinese and Vietnamese coasts, as indicated by the white lines in the map below.
*Q2: Who is in the right?*
A2: China’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs appears to be basing its case on the assumption that Triton Island, 17 miles to the north of HD-981, or another of the Paracels meets the UNCLOS habitability requirement for generating its own continental shelf. If that were assumed to be true, then HD-981 would indeed fall within the maximum hypothetical area of dispute generated by the Paracels, shown in red below. This is the maximum dispute because it gives the tiny Paracel Islands equal weight in delimitation with the entire Vietnamese coast facing them—a proposition that borders on the absurd.
So China can make a legal case, however flimsy, for control over the continental shelf on which HD-981 sits. But that area is clearly in dispute. To unilaterally drill on it is a violation of UNCLOS’s admonition that states in a dispute, “in a spirit of understanding and cooperation, shall make every effort to enter into provisional arrangements,” and shall not “jeopardize or hamper the reaching of [a] final agreement.” It is also clearly contrary to the 2002 Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea that China signed with the members of ASEAN, including Vietnam. In that agreement, all parties pledged to “exercise self-restraint in the conduct of activities that would complicate or escalate disputes and affect peace and stability.”
Hanoi, on the other hand, has restricted its oil and gas activities in the area to those fields, like blocks 118 and 119, that lie outside the maximum area of legal dispute.
*Q3: What comes next?*
A3: The deployment of HD-981, which Beijing insists will remain in place until August 15, has clearly ratcheted China-Vietnam tensions to a new level. Hanoi seems determined to disrupt the rig’s operations. And, in contrast to the Philippines, it has the capabilities—Russian-built Kilo-class submarines and an outdated but sizeable surface and air fleet—to do so. This means there is a real threat that acts of brinksmanship, like the recent ramming of Vietnamese vessels, could escalate quickly. Vietnam’s neighbors and outside partners like the United States must use every available channel to urge caution on both sides.
On the other hand, Vietnam’s relative naval capabilities will likely help temper Chinese assertiveness. After all, despite the presence of Chinese naval vessels around HD-981, it appeared that only Chinese Coast Guard vessels were involved in harassing and deterring Vietnamese ships attempting to enter the waters around the rig. The two nations’ and their leaders are as familiar with each other as anyone in the Asia Pacific, and they have substantial channels for communications, including top-level naval hotlines. This could also help avoid a larger crisis.
Vietnam has already launched a diplomatic campaign to build support abroad and paint China as the aggressor. Given other recent provocations by China against its neighbors, this will prove easy. This weekend, Vietnamese prime minister Nguyen Tan Dung will join his fellow leaders from across Southeast Asia at the ASEAN Summit. The placement of the drilling rig, along with China’s patrols at Malaysia’s James Shoal earlier this year and attempts to block resupply of Philippine troops at Second Thomas Shoal in March, will ensure that the South China Sea disputes take center stage. There is no telling who will blink first in the stand-off over HD-981, but the one thing that is certain is that China’s newest provocation will further heighten the threat perception among ASEAN states and drive them closer to each other and interested outside parties, especially Japan and the United States.
_Ernest Bower is the Sumitro Chair for Southeast Asia Studies at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington, D.C. Gregory Poling is a fellow with the Sumitro Chair.
Critical Questions is produced by the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS), a private, tax-exempt institution focusing on international public policy issues. Its research is nonpartisan and nonproprietary. CSIS does not take specific policy positions. Accordingly, all views, positions, and conclusions expressed in this publication should be understood to be solely those of the author(s)._

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

Brussels, 08 May 2014
140508/04

STATEMENT
by the Spokesperson of the EU High Representative on the recent escalation of tensions in the South China Sea

The spokesperson of the High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs and Security 
Policy and Vice President of the Commission
,
issued the following statement today :
"
We are concerned about recent incidents involving China and Vietnam relating to 
the movements of the Chinese oil rig HD981. 
In particular, the EU is concerned that unilateral actions could affect the security environment in the region, as evidenced by reports about the recent collision of Vietnamese and Chinese vessels.
We urge all parties concerned to seek peaceful and cooperative solutions in accordance with 
international law, in particular the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea, and to continue 
ensuring safety and freedom of navigation.
We also call on the parties to undertake de -escalating measures and refrain from any 
unilateral action which would be detrimental to peace and stability in the region.
The EU will keep following these developments

----
FOR FURTHER DETAILS:
Michael Mann +32 498 999 780 
-‐
+32 2 584 9780
-‐
Michael.Mann@eeas.europa.eu
@EUHighRepSpox
Maja Kocijancic +32 498 984 425 
-‐
+32 2 298 65 70 
-‐
Maja.Kocijancic@ec.europa.eu
@AshtonSpox_Maja
Sebastien Brabant +32 460 75 09 98 
-‐
Sebastien.Brabant@ec.europa.eu
Follow us on Twitter 
@eu_eeas
European External Action Service - EEAS - Brussels, Belgium - Government Organization | Facebook
EUROPA – EEAS – Welcome to the European External Action Service | Choose your language | Choisir une langue | Wählen Sie eine Sprache

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TaiShang

Viet said:


> NO, you must leave the area.
> 
> Otherwise not a skirmish, but an all-out war may happen.



For that to happen, you must fire first.

If you take the first shot, then China can legitimately respond and push you over.

If you do not, then China will keep asserting sovereignty.

It is a catch 22 for you. Looks like no magic wand from the Yankee so far, other than lip service, which is entertaining.


----------



## Rechoice

bolo said:


> I guess there are no qualified Vietnamese trainers so Americans are required. After training, time to call some Vietnamese chickens.



They could visit to Dong Guan in Guang dong China in tour, Chinese chickens is good for them.


----------



## TaiShang

So much US-licking by the Vietnamese Communists.


----------



## Viet

AFP News – Thu, May 8, 2014







_Japan's Chief Cabinet Secretary Yoshihide Suga, pictured during a press conference_

*Japan said on Thursday it was "deeply worried" by China's behaviour in a spat with Vietnam over contested waters, and urged Beijing to rein in its "provocative" actions.*

The comment comes after Hanoi said Chinese vessels rammed its patrol ships and turned water cannon on them near a controversial drilling rig in a disputed patch of the South China Sea.

It also comes as Japan and China continue to face off in their own territorial row over a small island grouping in the East China Sea and amid claims that Beijing is becoming increasingly assertive.

"We have strong concerns as there is information that many Vietnamese vessels were damaged and some people were injured," Chief Cabinet Secretary Yoshihide Suga told reporters in Tokyo.

"We are deeply worried as regional tensions have risen with China unilaterally starting rigging activities in disputed waters" in the South China Sea, the top government spokesman said.

*"We recognise this incident is part of China's unilateral and provocative maritime activities," he said.*

Suga said China should explain to Vietnam and the international community the basis on which it was acting and added Japan strongly wants China to refrain from provocative moves and "act in a self-restrained manner".

Hanoi said Wednesday that Chinese ships protecting a deep-water drilling rig in disputed waters had used water cannon to attack Vietnamese patrol vessels and had repeatedly rammed them, injuring six people.

Tensions between the communist neighbours have risen sharply since Beijing unilaterally announced last week it would relocate the rig -- a move the United States has described as "provocative".

Vietnam deployed patrol vessels after the China Maritime Safety Administration issued a navigational warning on its website saying it would be drilling close to the Paracel Islands -- which are controlled by China but claimed by Vietnam.

The two countries, who fought a brief border war in 1979, have been locked in a longstanding territorial dispute over the waters, and frequently trade diplomatic barbs over oil exploration, fishing rights and the ownership of the Spratly and Paracel Islands.

China claims sovereign rights to almost the whole of the South China Sea, leading to disagreements with other countries that surround the sea, chiefly with the Philippines, which has proved willing to stand up for itself.

Beijing's dispute with Japan is one of the more volatile flashpoints in regional relations, with both sides deploying paramilitary vessels -- backed at a distance by naval ships -- to the contested Senkaku islands, which China calls the Diaoyus.

The disputes have given common cause to Japan, the Philippines and Vietnam, with Manila particularly welcoming of Tokyo's moves to toughen up its defence stance, which it sees as offering a counterbalance to growing Chinese power.


Japan 'deeply worried' by China-Vietnam maritime spat - Yahoo News Philippines

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## BoQ77

*US fast attack submarine to arrive in Subic Friday*
May 9, 2014 12:17am

33 43 0 215

A fast attack submarine of the United States will arrive in the Philippines on Friday for a routine port call, state-run Philippines News Agency reported Thursday.

USS Chicago (SSN-721) is a Los Angeles-class submarine. It can support anti-submarine warfare, anti-surface ship warfare, strike, and intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance.

The submarine's home port is in Guam. 

The commanding officer is Cmdr. Lance Thompson, the USS Chicago is part of the US Pacific Fleet and has a crew of 135 sailors.

During its port call, the vessel crew will replenish supplies and engage in rest and relaxation. *— Joel Locsin/ELR, GMA News*

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Rechoice

revu said:


> Get a mirror



in mirror is more than one brainwashed billion is dreaming to rule the world.


----------



## Krueger

WSJ | May 9,2014






When China parked a giant oil rig in disputed waters off Vietnam, it confirmed what Washington and regional governments have long feared: Beijing is taking a major leap in the defense of its territorial claims. As Brian Spegele and Vu Trong Khanh report:

At the heart of the latest maneuvering for control in the South China Sea is China’s most modern oil rig, deployed by a state-owned oil company off the contested Paracel Islands over the objections of Hanoi, whose coast guard has sought to obstruct the rig’s work.

The standoff over the rig has built over several days, bursting into open conflict on Wednesday when Vietnamese officials said that about 80 Chinese vessels had moved into disputed areas near it and that six Vietnamese crew members had been injured in scuffles. Rear Adm. Ngo Ngoc Thu, vice commander of the Vietnamese coast guard, said Thursday that the situation at the site remains tense, with many ships still there.

The rig isn't just any piece of equipment; the platform, more than 100 meters high, is China's first deep-water rig, capable of operating in 3,000 meters of water. Launched with great fanfare two years ago, it was billed as a "strategic weapon" for China's oil industry.






The oil rig is a potential game-changer as it makes possible a long-held Chinese goal: a more aggressive pursuit of oil development close to home.

"The intention has always been there," said Christopher Len, a fellow at the National University of Singapore's Energy Studies Institute, of China's plans to drill in portions of the South China Sea it claims. "Now they have the capability to do so."

But while the dispute centers on the oil platform—and its promise of unlocking the South China Sea's untapped resources—at the heart of the standoff, security analysts say, are much higher stakes around the precedent the standoff may set and whether China's neighbors and the U.S. will allow it to seize control of strategic resources in disputed areas.

China is testing Washington's commitment to aiding regional partners at a time when some in the region fear the Obama administration's focus on Asia is wavering, security experts said.

On his swing through the region last month, U.S. President Barack Obama went to great lengths to reassure allies of America's commitment to them: He told Japan that U.S. security guarantees were absolute and covered a set of East China Sea islands that Japan controls but that China also claims.

In Manila, he called U.S. military support for the Philippines "ironclad," though he left vague whether that extended to aid in the country's island disputes.

His itinerary didn't include Vietnam, despite growing security and diplomatic ties with the former U.S. foe that are in part built on reservations about Chinese power.

The fact that China deployed the rig shortly after Mr. Obama's Asia tour "underlines Beijing's commitment to test the resolve of Vietnam, its [Association of Southeast Asian Nations] neighbors and Washington," wrote security scholars Ernest Bower and Gregory Poling, of the Center for Strategic and International Studies.

Vietnam released footage it said was of a Chinese vessel ramming a Vietnamese Coast Guard ship in the South China Sea as Vietnam tried to prevent the deployment of a Chinese oil rig in disputed waters. Via The Foreign Bureau, WSJ's global news update.







China has laid claim to much of the South China Sea for decades. Its intent to establish control hasn't changed, security analysts say. But under President Xi Jinping, China's government has begun to more aggressively demonstrate its capabilities, courting more direct conflict with neighbors—trends that have prompted deep worry in Washington. A senior State Department official on a visit to Hanoi on Thursday said the U.S. is "very concerned about any dangers."

"This is indicative of the new style of the Chinese government: that they are willing to push through with their claims through actions," said Mr. Len of the National University of Singapore.

Daniel R. Russel, the assistant secretary of state for East Asian and Pacific Affairs urged all parties involved in territorial disputes in the area to exercise restraint and noted that the U.S. doesn't take a position on any country's claim in the South China Sea.

The islands, reefs and atolls of the South China Sea, and the waters around them, are claimed in whole or in part by six governments. Though the disputes have prevented thorough exploration, energy analysts believe significant reserves of oil and gas lie beneath its seabed.

On Thursday, a Chinese Foreign Ministry official said that the decision to deploy the rig was a part of normal Chinese exploration activity in the area, which he said has been ongoing for years.

"We are deeply shocked by Vietnam's disruptive activities," said the official, Yi Xianliang, deputy director-general of the Foreign Ministry's Department of Boundary and Ocean Affairs, at a news conference in Beijing.

Mr. Yi said that between Saturday and Wednesday, Vietnamese ships had rammed Chinese vessels 171 times. He demanded Vietnamese vessels pull back from the area near where the Chinese rig, controlled by state-owned China National Offshore Oil Corp., is attempting to operate.

Mr. Yi didn't say if any Chinese crew members had been injured in the incidents, and said he wasn't able to provide a number for the Chinese ships taking part. He said the Chinese navy wasn't involved.

Cnooc's central role in the feud underscores how China's state-owned enterprises are often willing to work in risky areas, particularly when they have backing from Beijing. As much as China needs new energy sources, the objective of the Cnooc rig in the South China Sea goes beyond any potential oil discoveries, according to some security analysts. "A rig offers a purpose for vessels to hold a position," said Elliot Brennan, a research fellow at Sweden's Institute for Security and Development Policy.

—Wayne Ma, Kersten Zhang, and Nguyen Anh Thu contributed to this article.

*Write to *Brian Spegele at brian.spegele@wsj.com and Vu Trong Khanh at trong-khanh.vu@wsj.com


*More*

*Quick Guide to Tensions in South China Sea*
*Philippines Says Arrests Not Provocation*
*Asean to Meet Amid China Cloud*
*Vietnam, Philippines Incidents Raise Sea Tensions*
*China's World:* Confrontations Raise Stakes
*Sea Turtles a Flash Point in South China Sea Dispute*
*Abe Blames China for Asian Tensions*
How China Is Using an Oil Rig to Bolster Its Territorial Claims - China Real Time Report - WSJ

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

Kyle Sun said:


> Okay , I give up . We use armed fishing ships to protect our rig in spite of we have enough coastguard or navy ships
> 
> Get lost !


You'll never get enough ships to cover every inch on open water area ...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

xunzi said:


> Very clever tactic to round up, my friend.
> 
> 1. Your EEZ is overlapping with our controlled territorial water. The equidistant principle of UNCLOS applied here because of overlapping. The international law regarding overlapping water is to settle diplomatically between two parties. The trouble is you have been reluctant to do it bilaterally. We are forcing your hand, that all, my friend.
> 2.. It is not illegal. Go look up UNCLOS in reference to our declaration before ratifying. We never accept any country EEZ if it overlaps with our territorial base.
> 3. We did obey. It's true who misleading fact. Do I need to bring up our declaration before signing off on UNCLOS?



The Court not care about what your declared ... they follow UNCLOS 1982 only ...
And you applied jungle law for inventing nine-dashed-line in 2009

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

Beast said:


> Please look into the mirror before you talk. The Chinese and french rule your land before.



we kicked your *** to run back to China and france.


----------



## Viet

actually this event clearly shows who is friend and who is enemy of Vietnam. We must continue to mobilise the world to our side.

many comments from German media critize the Chinese aggression. here a voice from Germany:

an author of the German think tank "Center for Strategic and International Studies" (CSIS) analyses the situation as follows:

"Undoubtedly, the affected area is controversial. But China's unilateral attempt clearly violates the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS).

"It is clearly a violation against the general code of conduct of the South China Sea, that China in 2002 with the ASEAN countries, including Vietnam, signed."

"Vietnam is determined to prevent the establishment of the oil rig.

The military potential of Vietnam with the recently purchased Russian submarines of the Kilo-class makes the situation particularly dangerous. Tensions between China and Vietnam have reached the highest intensity since years."

China stellt Vietnam auf eine harte Probe | Asien | DW.DE | 08.05.2014

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Rechoice

Kyle Sun said:


> Get lost !



chinese invaders get lost from Vietnam water.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## BoQ77

US should fund Vietnam for building Vietnamese deep sea oil rig ...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Edison Chen

Rechoice said:


> we kicked your *** to run back to China and france.



I really feel tired, you are talking same piece of shit everyday.


----------



## MarkusS

Evry single news article in german media condemns chinese agressive behavior. 

Südchinesisches Meer: Inselstreit zwischen China und Vietnam eskaliert | ZEIT ONLINE

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Arya Desa

We support Vietnam 100%. I hope our leaders formally declare our support. china needs a round of sanctions to bring them back to reality, I hope NATO-Russia-South America-African Union-Asian-SAARC apply sanctions.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Rechoice

Edison Chen said:


> I really feel tired, you are talking same piece of shit everyday.



this is the shit only put to such mouth when it open with a bullshits.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

MarkusS said:


> Evry single news article in german media condemns chinese agressive behavior.
> 
> Südchinesisches Meer: Inselstreit zwischen China und Vietnam eskaliert | ZEIT ONLINE


so is the Chinese.

while the premier minister goes to Africa to sell the good image of China, at home they show the ugly face to their close neighbor.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Arya Desa

Viet said:


> so is the Chinese.
> 
> while the premier minister goes to Africa to sell the good image of China, at home they show the ugly face to their close neighbor.



Sir, that is because the CCP has no control over the military. Their military acts independently of the government, that's why the west say china is the most dangerous country. When the government cannot reign in the top brass only bad things can occur.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## xunzi

LOL We really play this game perfectly.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## xunzi

BoQ77 said:


> The Court not care about what your declared ... they follow UNCLOS 1982 only ...
> And you applied jungle law for inventing nine-dashed-line in 2009


It does not matter what you think. We made a declaration and every party in UNCLOS had that right. The basis for drilling is within the framework of Paracel EEZ. We did not violate international law.



Viet said:


> you don´t get it.
> 
> we never recognise your occupation of the Paracels.
> until yet, the government tolerates this status quo. nothing more.
> 
> as you put an oild rig and dispatch warships into our EEZ, that runs clearly against the agreement.
> .


It is fait accompli, a very important principle of international law. The fact is we control the island, fully 100%; therefore we reserve the right to conduct our business.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

xunzi said:


> LOL We really play this game perfectly.



to show of true face of China.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## BoQ77

xunzi said:


> It does not matter what you think. We made a declaration and every party in UNCLOS had that right. The basis for drilling is within the framework of Paracel EEZ. We did not violate international law.



1. Paracels has no its own EEZ but territorial 12 nm
2. Paracels are disputed archipelagos, which belong to Vietnam occupation until 1974.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

Arya Desa said:


> We support Vietnam 100%. I hope our leaders formally declare our support. china needs a round of sanctions to bring them back to reality, I hope NATO-Russia-South America-African Union-Asian-SAARC apply sanctions.


yes, I agree. a round of economics sanctions of America, Japan, India and Australia can bring the bully into the knee. 

Let them feel the pain.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## BoQ77

xunzi said:


> LOL We really play this game perfectly.



You could think that is a small game ... but from now your Southern region will never be peaceful like before ...

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## MarkusS

xunzi said:


> LOL We really play this game perfectly.



Explain me how 18th century primitivism, isolation and stupid nationalism helps your cause?

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Viet

Arya Desa said:


> Sir, that is because the *CCP has no control over the military*. Their military acts independently of the government, that's why the west say china is the most dangerous country. When the government cannot reign in the top brass only bad things can occur.


I don´t wonder that this action is initiated by some crazy generals. perhaps they want to topple the incompent and corrupt CCP.

when China fells into chaos and anarchy, the army will take the power.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

TaiShang said:


> So much US-licking by the Vietnamese Communists.



Nope.

What do Taiwanese now to US and from long time in the past ? sucking ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## xunzi

BoQ77 said:


> 1. Paracels has no its own EEZ
> 2. Paracels are disputed archipelagos, which belong to Vietnam occupation until 1974.


1. I am not interesting in debating with people that lack basis understanding of an EEZ. Paracel archipelagos is large enough as a group and can sustain life on its own. That is the very definition of entitlement to an EEZ.
2. There is no dispute. We control 100%.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Rechoice

xunzi said:


> 1. I am not interesting in debating with people that lack basis understanding of an EEZ. Paracel archipelagos is large enough as a group and can sustain life on its own. That is the very definition of entitlement to an EEZ.
> 2. There is no dispute. We control 100%.



Islands belong to Vietnam. china occupied Island of Vietnam 1974 with force. China don't have right to claim EZZ for Paracel. Control of China is illegal


----------



## BoQ77

At an international press briefing in Washington DC on May 8, deputy spokesperson of the US Department of State Marie Harf * called on China to stop its provocative, escalating act in the East Sea* – a dangerous step that can threaten peace and stability in the region.





She voiced the US’s concern about escalation in the region, saying any sovereign claims should be settled peacefully and any effort to change the status quo running counter to international law threatens regional peace and stability.

Harf said the US would continue to ask China to settle sovereign disputes peacefully in accordance with international law, and put an end to similar provocative acts.

Congressman Eni Faleomavaega of the House Foreign Affairs Subcommittee on Asia and the Pacific, on May 8 also strongly criticized China for violating Vietnam’s sovereignty and called upon the US to issue a clear and decisive statement of response.

In a press release, Eni Faleomavaega noted China’s drilling rig HD-981 is anchored within Vietnam’s Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ) and continental shelf, about 120 nautical miles from Ly Son island of Vietnam.

He thanked US Senator John McCain for his leadership in unequivocally stating that China’s territorial claims to these waters have no basis in international law.

Eni Faleomavaega asserted that “China’s provocative actions are an escalation of its intent to threaten peace and maritime security in the East Sea“.

He recalled that since 2009, China has escalated its claims of the ‘nine-dash line’, cut ship cables, established Sansha City, enforced its Fishery Law, enhanced oil explorations in disputed areas, attacked Vietnamese fishing vessels, launched patrol boats, and conducted military exercises in the East Sea to flex its power and deter other claimants.

The congressman called on Chinese leaders to take immediate steps to deescalate tensions, and the US to lead the way.

*U.S. Helps Vietnam Defend Fishermen Who 'Get into Trouble' With China*
*Days after sparks flew with China, U.S. Coast Guard official reveals 'uncanny' meeting.*





U.S. Coast Guard still protects Vietnamese fishermen from Chinese ships such as this one leaving the Xingang Port of Haikou on March 26.

By Paul D. Shinkman April 9, 2013 SHARE
NATIONAL HARBOR, Md. --- The U.S. Coast Guard actively helps Vietnam protect its fishing vessels at a time when the Chinese are testing the boundaries of their Pacific neighborhood, a top official says.

Many of the officers involved in this effort remember firsthand the late 1960s and early 1970s when the U.S. and Vietnam were at war, says Coast Guard Rear Adm. William Lee. Now the two governments are cooperating to develop a fighting force that can help Vietnamese fisherman and others when they "get into trouble."


While speaking at the annual Sea-Air-Space expo here, Lee described a meeting he conducted with Vietnamese counterparts the week after one of its vessels reportedly caught fire after Chinese sailors fired a flare at it.

"They have thousands of fishermen who set to sea every day without the benefit of a U.S. Coast Guard-like entity who can go out when those guys get into trouble," said Lee, the deputy for Operations Policy and Capabilities. "There is a growing demand for Coast Guard-like authorities and capabilities and training efforts. The problem is there is far more demand than there is supply to meet the demand at the present moment."

Lee says he sat down to lunch in March with a senior Vietnamese Naval officer and an Army colonel roughly his same age who slept in a bunker outside Hanoi before entering service in 1972.

"We both found it kind of uncanny that here we are all these years later. He, still on active duty after all those years, talking to the U.S. government about building capacity in their country," he said. "That story is remarkable."


News broke on March that Chinese officials had engaged a Vietnamese fishing boat in disputed waters in the South China Sea. The Chinese boat allegedly fired a warning flare, which the Vietnamese claims set its fishing boat on fire.

Lee's interaction with the Vietnamese officers was "one small vignette of many of the things happening over there in Southeast Asia," he said. The U.S. Coast Guard has also met with Chinese counterparts in Honolulu for talks in recent weeks, he added.

The Chinese have themselves embarked on efforts to improve their coast guard. Until March, it had five separate entities that performed the same efforts of the U.S. Coast Guard. Now they have combined four of those together, Lee said.

"They took a lesson looking across the spectrum there and saw how we do business," he said.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## xunzi

Arya Desa said:


> Like every international fiasco china instigates, you will come out the antagonist as usual. I honestly don't understand why you like coming out on the losing side? china needs to hire some good foreign affairs advisers, cause the past 60 years have been terrible for you.


Losing end? How did you come to that conclusion? Because you say so? LOL Look, my troll friend, you must understand that nobody understand these petty states than we do. The history of jogging for position in dispute area had been going on since the establishment of UNCLOS. The Vietnam, Phillipines all trying to do that. Even not too long ago, the Phillpines and Vietnam were fighting over some reef in Spratly. LOL Look at the map in South China Sea islands to see who control what. We know them too well. I must say we understand this dirty game too much. After all we live and survive in this South China Sea for ages.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## KAL-EL

it's to bad these issues can't be sorted out over a nice meal.


----------



## xunzi

MarkusS said:


> Explain me how 18th century primitivism, isolation and stupid nationalism helps your cause?


Tell us what we did wrong. Why can't we drill near our island, just 18 miles away?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## MarkusS

xunzi said:


> Tell us what we did wrong. Why can't we drill near our island, just 18 miles away?



It looks like this region is also claimed from Vietnam. China depends on good relations with its neighbors. 

Tell me, do you really want live in constant confrontation, war and hate with your entire nighborhood? I believed harmony is a great aspect in the chinese culture. Why not sit down and work on cooperation about this issues. 

The problem i see is that the weak chinese government has zero rule over the military. This can lead to such conflicts.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

xunzi said:


> Losing end? How did you come to that conclusion? Because you say so? LOL Look, my troll friend, you must understand that nobody understand these petty states than we do. The history of jogging for position in dispute area had been going on since the establishment of UNCLOS. The Vietnam, Phillipines all trying to do that. Even not too long ago, the Phillpines and Vietnam were fighting over some reef in Spratly. LOL Look at the map in South China Sea islands to see who control what. We know them too well. I must say we understand this dirty game too much. After all we live and survive in this South China Sea for ages.



Vietnam controled Islands from long time ago. we didn't have trouble with man Qing China in the past. Kanton Governor has been stated in the past that Island not belong to China.

KMT is claimed it 1948 with nine dash. Its baseless.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## xunzi

Rechoice said:


> Islands belong to Vietnam. china occupied Island of Vietnam 1974 with force. China don't have right to claim EZZ for Paracel. Control of China is illegal


We already control the northern half of Paracel prior to re-taking Southern part of Paracel completely in 1974. The battle to decide the fate of Paracel is all legal. In fact, we fought a bloody battle to win this against the South Vietnam regime. You are currently a Northern regime ruling Vietnam which should have no business in this Paracel, at all. Your North VN prime minister even renounce Paracel to us in exchange for us to lend you Woody Island to stage a fight against the USA during Vietnam War.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## BoQ77

xunzi said:


> 1. I am not interesting in debating with people that lack basis understanding of an EEZ. Paracel archipelagos is large enough as a group and can sustain life on its own. That is the very definition of entitlement to an EEZ.
> 2. There is no dispute. We control 100%.



control 100% means no dispute ? nonsense ...
Paracels are disputed because China robbed it from Vietnam in 1974.

Do you apply the same argument when you snatch the Scarborough shoal from Phillipines ?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## xunzi

MarkusS said:


> It looks like this region is also claimed from Vietnam. China depends on good relations with its neighbors.
> 
> Tell me, do you really want live in constant confrontation, war and hate with your entire nighborhood? I believed harmony is a great aspect in the chinese culture. Why not sit down and work on cooperation about this issues.
> 
> The problem i see is that the weak chinese government has zero rule over the military. This can lead to such conflicts.


You need to keep your bullshit high-moral ground to yourself. LOL This tactic and double standard is too obvious for everyone with a brain to see. If Japan can nationalizing a dispute island in Diaoyu/Senkaku without the West outcry, why are you crying if we drill near our control island? LOL You see, my friend, Japan is your puppet ally so you don't cry. LOL Double standard impose on us is clear. There is no legal or moral ground when you play double standard on us. LOL

We have said many times before that the door to *bilateral negotiation* to settle dispute is always open. It is the Vietnamese who decided to keep the door shut. It's not us. Don't blame us for keeping our principle. Even UNCLOS principle said dispute shall be solved on bilateral basis if existing between two states.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Soryu

TheNoob said:


> When US invades and destory countrys by lying...
> its all O K.
> 
> But when China or Russia does something with no bloodshed.
> Their the bully.
> 
> 
> Freakin stupid logic people go by these days.....


Only you freaking stupid logic, we never say US do everything is OK.
You're surely noob

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## atatwolf

KAL-EL said:


> it's to bad these issues can't be sorted out over a nice meal.


Hard to have a nice meal with China if they try to steal food off the plates of others.It is the nature of the beast. It can't be changed. I just advice Vietnamese and Japanese to sit down with a revolver in their pocket.China has no friends. Not overseas, not in the neighborhood. They should know: nobody will accept aggression. I would love to be the one sitting at the table when this happens so I can pull out my revolver and make an end to this.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

xunzi said:


> We already control the northern half of Paracel prior to re-taking Southern part of Paracel completely in 1974. The battle to decide the fate of Paracel is all legal. In fact, we fought a bloody battle to win this against the South Vietnam regime. You are currently a Northern regime ruling Vietnam which should have no business in this Paracel, at all. Your North VN prime minister even renounce Paracel to us in exchange for us to lend you Woody Island to stage a fight against the USA during Vietnam War.



taken with force is illegal.

China is liar. after 1954, China and North VN signed it. Islands belong to South Vietnam, it located in south of 17th parallel. north regime didn't have right about Island of South vietnam.

No evidence for that renounce or exchange. China stop lie.


----------



## xunzi

Rechoice said:


> Vietnam controled Islands from long time ago. we didn't have trouble with man Qing China in the past. Kanton Governor has been stated in the past that Island not belong to China.
> 
> KMT is claimed it 1948 with nine dash. Its baseless.


I'm not going to sit here and argue with you over bullshit rightful administrative right because territories prior to establishment of the UN is always shady, depending on who have the bigger gun and can impose their strength on others. Beside territory exchange between different states exist since millennium. What matter most, in international legal term, is who is the current administrative owner? That question was resolved 40 years ago.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## MarkusS

xunzi said:


> You need to keep your bullshit high-moral ground to yourself. LOL This tactic and double standard is too obvious for everyone with a brain to see. If Japan can nationalizing a dispute island in Diaoyu/Senkaku without the West outcry, why are you crying if we drill near our control island? LOL You see, my friend, Japan is your puppet ally so you don't cry. LOL Double standard impose on us is clear. There is no legal or moral ground when you play double standard on us. LOL
> 
> We have said many times before that the door to *bilateral negotiation* to settle dispute is always open. It is the Vietnamese who decided to keep the door shut. It's not us. Don't blame us for keeping our principle. Even UNCLOS principle said dispute shall be solved on bilateral basis if existing between two states.



Well explain me how this "bilateral negotiation" would look like and how a compromise could look like between china- japan-vietnam and so on. 

And no, Japan is not our "puppet ally". I see Japan as a friend. And i would be happy if China see us as friends too.


----------



## Viet

KAL-EL said:


> it's to bad these issues can't be sorted out over a nice meal.


yes, that is sad.

China has intentionally escalated the tension. the Chinese want to turn Asia into battlefields like Middle East or Central Africa.

On a press conference, the spokeswomen of the US Department of State Marie Harf called on China to stop its provocative, escalating act in the East Sea – threatening peace and stability in the region.

I think Vietnam should bring China before the UNSC.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## atatwolf

Arya Desa said:


> In the other thread about Turkey-china, even when the chinese were insulting Islam and your Prophet, the pakistanis sided with china. If they put china over their own religion, that is true friendship. In fact, they even sided with china over Turkey.


It is sad but the truth but not all Pakistani are like this.

I wonder Pakistan government position on this is?

I hope Pakistani government sees that China is enemy of human freedom, islam and enemy of this earth.


----------



## Viet

MarkusS said:


> Explain me how 18th century primitivism, isolation and stupid nationalism helps your cause?


it is clear.

the Chinese suffered under the guns of western powers in the past.
now they want to copy them.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

xunzi said:


> depending on who have the bigger gun and can impose their strength on others



Its mentality of Chinese today. USA is stronger than China, so they could destroy China in to samall pierces for peace of region. so china could stop say USA interfere in to internal affair of China.

Idiot China could bully Vietnam, but to facing with USA you can not. I said; China is crying and crying now when USA stated clearly to protect Japan against China.

40 year is not ancient time. we never give up our sovereignty over our Islands.


----------



## xunzi

MarkusS said:


> Well explain me how this "bilateral negotiation" would look like and how a compromise could look like between china- japan-vietnam and so on.
> 
> And no, Japan is not our "puppet ally". I see Japan as a friend. And i would be happy if China see us as friends too.


You should ask the Vietnamese/Japanese this question than to us. A bilateral settlement in our definition is to do joint-exploration on the resources and leave the sovereignty at a later day or time. The Vietnamese wants multilateral basis. It is unacceptable for us to bring 3rd party in our own dispute with relevant country.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## atatwolf

xunzi said:


> You should ask the Vietnamese/Japanese this question than to us. A bilateral settlement in our definition is to do joint-exploration on the resources and leave the sovereignty at a later day or time. The Vietnamese wants multilateral basis. It is unacceptable for us to bring 3rd party in our own dispute with relevant country.


Vietnam needs third party for security. Try to have some empathy. Imagine you are small country, and your big neigbhor wants to gobble your resources up. What are you going to do? You are going to your big brother so when you break the rules, the brother can come and learn you a lesson and make you regret you ever made that move.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## xunzi

Rechoice said:


> Its mentality of Chinese today. USA is stronger than China, so they could destroy China in to samall pierces for peace of region. so china could stop say USA interfere in to internal affair of China.
> 
> Idiot China could bully Vietnam, but to facing with USA you can not. I said; China is crying and crying now when USA stated clearly to protect Japan against China.
> 
> 40 year is not ancient time. we never give up our sovereignty over our Islands.


The US can bully us because they are powerful. The difference between us and the USA is that we don't pretend to be righteous, fair, and objective in our international image. LOL



atatwolf said:


> Vietnam needs third party for security. Try to have some empathy. Imagine you are small country, and your big neigbhor wants to gobble your resources up. What are you going to do? You are going to your big brother so when you break the rules, the brother can come and learn you a lesson and make you regret you ever made that move.


If you have two kids sitting at a dinner table, one big and one small, and there is one full cake, how should it be split? The skinny guy don't need to eat as much as the big guy because his appetite is not large enough.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Rechoice

xunzi said:


> The US can bully us because they are powerful. The difference between us and the USA is that we don't pretend to be righteous, fair, and objective in our international image. LOL



when you don't pretend to be righteous, fair, and objective in our international image, you are true Chinaman.


----------



## Beast

Alfa-Fighter said:


> it is more closer of Vietnam main land , to technically it belong to Vietnam, 200 NM from china dose means it can end up on land of Vietnam, It divided equally.
> 
> 
> 
> If India start claiming as per china law India owns the 90% of Indian ocean from where Chinese ships passes. Andaman and laskshdeep.


 The problem is Indian navy has not such capabilities to claim whole indian ocean.while PLAN has such capabilites. Just look at IN submarine fleet and see how pathetic is it.


----------



## xunzi

BoQ77 said:


> control 100% means no dispute ? nonsense ...
> Paracels are disputed because China robbed it from Vietnam in 1974.
> 
> Do you apply the same argument when you snatch the Scarborough shoal from Phillipines ?


Japan robbed us our Diaoyu, who cry for us? NOBODY! This fucking world works like that.



Rechoice said:


> taken with force is illegal.
> 
> China is liar. after 1954, China and North VN signed it. Islands belong to South Vietnam, it located in south of 17th parallel.* north regime didn't have right about Island of South vietnam.*
> 
> No evidence for that renounce or exchange. China stop lie.


If North regime don't have right to Paracel back then, why do they have now considering fait accompli? The south regime no longer exist. We won this through hard fought with South Regime!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

xunzi said:


> You should ask the Vietnamese/Japanese this question than to us. A bilateral settlement in our definition is to do joint-exploration on the resources and leave the sovereignty at a later day or time. The Vietnamese wants multilateral basis. It is unacceptable for us to bring 3rd party in our own dispute with relevant country.


come on, we know you since more than 2,000 years.

don´t bullshit.

you come with 7 warships and 33 patrol boats without invitation into our water, damaged our civil vessels, injured the crew members and ask us to surrender. that is your understanding of:

_"A bilateral settlement in our definition is to do joint-exploration on the resources and leave the sovereignty at a later day or time."_


----------



## Viet

atatwolf said:


> Vietnam needs third party for security. Try to have some empathy. Imagine you are small country, and your big neigbhor wants to gobble your resources up. What are you going to do? You are going to your big brother so when you break the rules, the brother can come and learn you a lesson and make you regret you ever made that move.


it is similar if Vietnam negotiates with Brunei.

Don´t expect the Chinese ever understand it. they live in their own world.


----------



## xunzi

Viet said:


> come on, we know you since more than 2,000 years.
> 
> don´t bullshit.
> 
> *you come with 7 warships and 33 patrol boats without invitation into our water, damaged our civil vessels, injured the crew members and ask us to surrender. that is your understanding of:*
> 
> _"A bilateral settlement in our definition is to do joint-exploration on the resources and leave the sovereignty at a later day or time."_


This would not have happened if you did not confront us by sending your ship to harass us. We are simply self-defense.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## xunzi

Rechoice said:


> when you don't pretend to be righteous, fair, and objective in our international image, you are true Chinaman.


We keep it real just as our pragmatic policy have shown unlike the US who keep a two-face approach. LOL

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

xunzi said:


> Japan robbed us our Diaoyu, who cry for us? NOBODY! This fucking world works like that.
> 
> 
> If North regime don't have right to Paracel back then, why do they have now considering fait accompli? The south regime no longer exist. We won this through hard fought with South Regime!



Chinese are liar, Atlas printed in China PRC stated that Senkaku is in Japan territory. forget it ? other than Lee Deng Hui president of Taiwan confirmed it.

China signed Geneva Accord 1954, Islands in south of 17 parallel belong to South Vietnam. But 1956 and 1974 China stolen Islands of South Vietnam with force.

You don't have evidence for what you say about North regime in Vietnam war. Stop lie. when we unified Vietnam, Islands belong South Vietnam is part of territory Vietnam after 1976 when we declared new state SR Vietnam.



xunzi said:


> If North regime don't have right to Paracel back then, why do they have now considering fait accompli? The south regime no longer exist. We won this through hard fought with South Regime!



When feudalism Dynasties in China is not existed, China stop telling about the fake historical evidences, which fabricated recently.


----------



## Viet

xunzi said:


> Tell us what we did wrong. Why can't we drill near our island, just 18 miles away?


how many times do I need to drill it into your head?

we never recognise your accupation of Paracels.

the government of Vietnam silently tolerates your administration of the islands, until a final solution has been worked out.
nothing else. neither drilling nor expanding your activities into our EEZ.

Get it?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## atatwolf

Viet said:


> it is similar if Vietnam negotiates with Brunei.
> 
> Don´t expect the Chinese ever understand it. they live in their own world.


The only thing they will understand is the barrel of the revolver. 

As you said, they will never learn it. I think within 10 years China is going to make a very dumb move.

I will enjoy every second of it.


----------



## Arya Desa

xunzi said:


> Even if the possibility of starvation from your bigger kid if he doesn't eat enough? Size and appetite is important in the real world. *The bigger you are, you deserve to eat more because you need it more.*


This statement is perfect insight into han thinking I could not sum it up better. In your chinese mind you think just because some one is bigger they *deserve* more. No body deserves more than others because of size. This is why all your neighbours dislike hans. This very thinking of the hans needs to be corrected.


----------



## xunzi

atatwolf said:


> It is not your cake. You are a guest at this table. you will take what is offered to you. It is not your house. China claims resources at the shores of other peoples countries. It is your decision but I remind you the revolver of the house lord is on the table.


Neither them. The resources are located near UNINHABITED ISLANDs in the middle of no where so everyone at the table is a guest to this god given gift. LOL



Viet said:


> how many times do I need to drill it into your head?
> 
> we never recognise your accupation of Paracels.
> 
> the government of Vietnam silently tolerates your administration of the islands, until a final solution has been worked out.
> nothing else. neither drilling nor expanding your activities into our EEZ.
> 
> Get it?


We never recognized Diaoyu as Japan, why can they nationalizing it. Where were you? I don't see you cry of justice for us.



Arya Desa said:


> This statement is perfect insight into han thinking I could not sum it up better. In your chinese mind you think just because some one is bigger they *deserve* more. No body deserves more than others because of size. This is why all your neighbours dislike hans. This very thinking of the hans needs to be corrected.


Ask our friend the USA why they eat more than others at any international arena.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Daymadi

You should know that, your government had nothing to show 

Yi Xianliang said: "However, the Vietnamese side sent additional ships to the scene and continued to ram into Chinese vessels at the scene, said Yi, noting that from May 3 to 7, in a short period of 5 days, Vietnam had dispatched 36 vessels of various kinds which rammed Chinese vessels for as much as *171 times*"*.
Ha ha ha, 171 times without evidence, and more than 1.3 billions chinese poeple believed him!!! 
*
Yi: "In the course of collision, the Chinese side also found *frogmen* sent by the Vietnamese side *5 meters* away from the Chinese government vessels, Yi said, adding that the Vietnamese side also placed many *fishing nets and large obstacles* in the waters, not only posing security threats to Chinese vessels and facilities, but also jeopardizing normal navigation security". *Frogmen, 5 meters away from chinese government vessels? Only chinese baby have such nice imagination. *



TaiShang said:


> There are warships, I think, deployed to the area, at the moment, and the article I posted above says it clearly.
> 
> Why should China share images and videos with others? China does not recognize Vietnamese action, so, is not obliged to provide any proof.
> 
> China is not in the defensive. Wordiness best describes the Vietnamese. No Chinese officials other than spokespersons addressed the issue as yet.


----------



## Arya Desa

Viet said:


> how many times do I need to drill it into your head?
> 
> we never recognise your accupation of Paracels.
> 
> the government of Vietnam silently tolerates your administration of the islands, until a final solution has been worked out.
> nothing else. neither drilling nor expanding your activities into our EEZ.
> 
> Get it?



Simple solution: since these chinese love their cake so much (see xunzi's post) and they believe larger people deserve more cake because they will starve without, all you need to is stop the delivery man, and the fatboy will fall. The strait of Malacca is very vulnerable to a naval blockade. Close it, and big boy will go hungry. You are very lucky to have china by their stomach.


----------



## zDragonFlyz

xudeen said:


> The oil rig is within China's 200nm EEZ in reference to Zhongjian Island. Why should we remove our oil rig from our EEZ?



Come on, someone taught China how to read the convention please! EEZ extends from the BASELINE of the shore, not from a *disputed island*! If you don't read a contract, why do you sign it? I'm really confused!

Btw you have no legal right on Paracels. We, Vietnamese, were owning and administrating Paracel Islands from 18th Century, we pitched the flag in 1816, we have a lot of documents about setting our sovereignty and administrating those islands, a lot of documents from the Westerners that recognize and affirm our right. Leave your email and we will send you our proofs. What do you have? Some chinese fishermen visited it? The chinese never cared about Paracels until the 20th Century when it finally had a little power, and in 1974 you bring your navy there to invade our sovereign islands.


----------



## IND151

Increased co operation between Japan and India can be expected in coming days., looking at the situation.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## xunzi

Arya Desa said:


> Simple solution: since these chinese love their cake so much (see xunzi's post) and they believe larger people deserve more cake because they will starve without, all you need to is stop the delivery man, and the fatboy will fall. The strait of Malacca is very vulnerable to a naval blockade. Close it, and big boy will go hungry. You are very lucky to have china by their stomach.


We don't need to be the one that will come knocking on your head if you block our business, instead our American friend will come knocking because we did a lot of trading with the USA! LOL

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

xunzi said:


> We keep it real just as our pragmatic policy have shown unlike the US who keep a two-face approach. LOL



US is double face, good and bad face

and China has single face. you copied what US imperialist did in the past, the bad face. Good choice of China man. So people in the world looks down at you.


----------



## Viet

xunzi said:


> We never recognized Diaoyu as Japan, why can they nationalizing it. Where were you? I don't see you cry of justice for us.


do the Japanese put an oil rig and send warships into your EEZ?


----------



## zDragonFlyz

bolo said:


> The UN law does not apply in this case if you read it. *To be frank, international laws don't mean shit because treaties have been broken thousands of time throughout history. Laws are written and made by strong countries in power to make the rest believe they are relevant.*
> In this case China is drilling 18 miles off their Paracel islands, which is 120 miles from. Vietnam coast. Vietnamese ultra nationalist causing shit and lying for world support, or rather USA support. US will support them with more lip service and encouragement, nothing more.



Oh sh*t Sherlock the Nazi was reborn. 
And china is wondering how the heck they have so may problems with other countries 



Kyle Sun said:


> Check the UNCLOS word by word which we signed
> 
> After that , you tell me we obey it or not .



Checked. 3 times. Word by word. No overlapping with your legal 12-mile territorial water and 200-mile extends from your BASELINE.
So the answer is NO. You didn't obey anything.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## xunzi

Viet said:


> do the Japanese put an oil rig and send warships into your EEZ?


Are you serious? LOL The Japanese and our American friends have a history of sending warships to spy on us in our 200 nautical miles.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## zDragonFlyz

xunzi said:


> Very clever tactic to round up, my friend.
> 
> 1. Your EEZ is overlapping with our controlled territorial water. The equidistant principle of UNCLOS applied here because of overlapping. The international law regarding overlapping water is to settle diplomatically between two parties. The trouble is you have been reluctant to do it bilaterally. We are forcing your hand, that all, my friend.
> 2.. It is not illegal. Go look up UNCLOS in reference to our declaration before ratifying. We never accept any country EEZ if it overlaps with our territorial base.
> 3. We did obey. It's true who misleading fact. Do I need to bring up our declaration before signing off on UNCLOS?



1. According to what you have signed for (UNCLOS 1982), your territorial water extends 12 miles from the baseline of your shore. Your 200 nm EEZ even doesn't extend to that location. So, no overlapping with your legal. 
2. Again. No overlapping with your legal right.
3. Ok. You did obey, like the pig can fly. Problem solved.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## VietHome

Two newest Chinese warships are monitored and taken picture by US Navy on international water close to the conflict area. These two are ready to "jump" in when situation is not in Chinese favor.







Two Vietnam Coast Guard vessels are under emergency repair after being rammed by Chinese ships











Extended clip on Chinese ship ramming Vietnamese vessels on 05/06/2014






Yesterday, PRC ordered seven warships into the area, inside Vietnam EEZ to intimidate Vietnamese Coast Guard ships protecting its territorial water. This video captured two Chinese warships, the first one is the fast missile attack craft 753, and the second one is the Type 053H1 frigate 金华 534.






Attack craft 753






金华 534

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## xunzi

Rechoice said:


> US is double face, good and bad face
> 
> and China has single face. you copied what US imperialist did in the past, the bad face. Good choice of China man. So people in the world looks down at you.


It is not even long ago, like 30 years ago, that the US supported their friend, British, fought a battle over Falkland. Imperialism still exist with double-face West. We did not increase our territorial gain since the formation of UNCLOS. Not even one inch.



atatwolf said:


> It is issue between Vietnam and Japan IMHO. You invited yourself to the table. You should be lucky you are allowed to sit at the table IMHO. Japan has proven to be a rational and sane country. They should the stewardship in this case because they know how to solve issues peacefully. Also Japan could have influence to solve east-Turkistan issue. They are good mediators.


Do I need to remind you of the history of this fair face, called Japan? LOL When Japan dominated Asia, they brought chaotic and unequal treaty, blood, murder everywhere. When we were the most powerful in Asia, everyone was in the golden age. Just look at Asia growth today. We rise, all Asian states are getting richer. That, my friend, is the difference and why we continue to receive support from our neighbors despite what look like a bully tactic when it is not. If Japan is such a sane country, everyone in Asia will support them. Just ask Korea if they want Japan as leader. LOL

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

*Philippines offers oil, gas exploration area in waters disputed with China*
Fri May 9, 2014 4:55am EDT


By Erikdela Cruz

MANILA, May 9 (Reuters) - The Philippines on Friday launched a tender for exploration rights in 11 oil and gas blocks, including one in a disputed area of the SouthChinaSea that is likely to fuel further tension with China.

China claims virtually all of theSouth ChinaSea and is already involved in a dispute with Manila over a Chinesefishingboat that was seized this week in the Spratly Islands on suspicion its crew was poaching protected turtles species.

Beijing is also in the middle of a stand-off over an oil rig it has moved into waters claimed by Vietnam.

Philippine energy officials sought to downplay the issue of territorial dispute with China in offering to investors the so-called Area 7 in Reed Bank - or Recto Bank as it is known in the Philippines. The Area 7 block, like the rest of the South China Sea, is believed to hold huge oil and gas deposits.

Manila calls the South China Sea the West Philippine Sea.

"The area we are offering in the West Philippine Sea is very near Palawan," Energy Undersecretary Ramon Allan Oca told Reuters, referring to the southwestern Philippine province.

The area is also near the Malampaya offshorenatural gasoil field operated by a local unit ofRoyal Dutch Shell.

"From thepoint of viewof the Philippines, it is not a disputed area," Oca said. "Area 7 is within the Philippines' exclusive economic zone."

China, the Philippines and Vietnam, along with Malaysia, Taiwan and Brunei, all claim parts of the South China Sea.

It was in the Reed Bank where a 2011 confrontation between Chinese navy vessels and a survey ship contracted by London-listed Forum Energy Plc - a unit of Philippine exploration firm Philex Petroleum Corp - led to a halt in oil andgas explorationwork in the Sampaguita block.

Area 7, according to the Philippines' Department of Energy (DOE), holds an estimated resource potential of 165 million barrels of oil and about 3.5 trillioncubicfeet (tcf) ofnatural gas. Water depths range between 800 and 1,700 meters.

"As we live withininternational laws, we seek all diplomatic recourse to assert our claims to the areas in the West Philippine Sea," Energy Secretary Carlos Jericho Petilla told potential investors in a speech at the launch of the 5th Philippine Energy Contracting Round.

The Philippines is also offering 15 blocks forcoalexploration, which Petilla said are all within the country's territory.

Most of the oil andgas explorationblocks are located near the Philippines' main island of Luzon, while most of the coal blocks are in southern Philippine provinces. Ten of the 11 oil and gas block on offer are offshore.

Interested investors have until February next year to decide which oil and gas or coal areas they want to bid for.

Petilla said three potential areas forpetroleum explorationhave been "temporarily" excluded from the list of blocks offered because they fall within areas covered by a peace deal signed in March between the government and the Moro Islamic Liberation Front, the country's largest Muslim rebel group.

Forum Energy holds Service Contract 72 issued by the Philippine government covering the Sampaguita block in the Reed Bank. The block is estimated to have 20 tcf of natural gas, much bigger that Malampaya's estimated reserves of 2.7 tcf.

Forum Energy has yet toresume workin the area after the earlier shipping dispute involving the Chinese navy. (Reporting by Erik dela Cruz; Editing by Tom Hogue)

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## zDragonFlyz

SenLin said:


> Do you guys think that Vietnam will one day request direct support from the US or India to counter China? Like Japan, Philippines etc?



We don't want to do that. We want to be a friend of China. But with all the actions from the invasion in 1974 to today, I don't think China let us to be its friend, they force us to ask for support from US allies. So, my answer is, if we are forced to go to war, we will request supports from Japan, India... etc... We just need to fight. In addition, there not always are countries that are willing to take some blood from China, many other countries will be happy with it (since china have so many enemies), so I think their will be supports for us.

China pushed us to the US's side. And now China is wondering why we are not in its side. How ironic.

Now we are changing into NATO cartridge. We just made a victory parade with US guns. It's the sign.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## xunzi

Arya Desa said:


> Mr. cake eater, you are gravely mistaken if you think because America buys your things that they need you or will defend you. Americans do not have a myopic world view.


The US has a duty to protect free trade principle. If any one state unilaterally block free trade flow, that state will be the enemy of global trade. Since we are P5, we will certainly make this loud and clear to our P5 peer to respond. Otherwise, the whole UN and trade system will break down. Chaotic will ensure afterward. You want to see jungle style world, don't you my friend? LOL

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## xunzi

zDragonFlyz said:


> 1. According to what you have signed for (UNCLOS 1982), your territorial water extends 12 miles from the baseline of your shore. Your 200 nm EEZ even doesn't extend to that location. So, no overlapping with your legal.
> 2. Again. No overlapping with your legal right.
> 3. Ok. You did obey, like the pig can fly. Problem solved.


Clueless Vietnamese about UNCLOS, don't you? LOL The question is whether Paracel has its own EEZ and that according to international law and neutral experts is yes. Search it up.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## VietHome

xunzi said:


> The US has a duty to protect free trade principle. If any one state unilaterally block free trade flow, that state will be the enemy of global trade. Since we are P5, we will certainly make this loud and clear to our P5 peer to respond. Otherwise, the whole UN and trade system will break down. Chaotic will ensure afterward. You want to see jungle style world, don't you my friend? LOL


Funny uttering the word "protecting global trade" when your country is the sole instigator of disrupting global trade by claiming the entire sea for yourself. Everyone and their dogs know you want to control the SCS to put a knife on the throat of Japan, Korea, and Taiwan, because all these countries need resources, especially oil to survive. Controlling the SCS is controlling the whole Asian Pacific, pure and simple.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## VietHome

Beast said:


> Aggressor and started twisting facts... You are the one sending military helo and fighter jets against China coastguard.
> The world and China will teach the aggressor a lesson.



Two newest Chinese warships are monitored and taken picture by US Navy on international water close to the conflict area. These two are ready to "jump" in when situation is not in Chinese favor.







Two Vietnam Coast Guard vessels are under emergency repair after being rammed by Chinese ships











Extended clip on Chinese ship ramming Vietnamese vessels on 05/06/2014






Yesterday, PRC ordered seven warships into the area, inside Vietnam EEZ to intimidate Vietnamese Coast Guard ships protecting its territorial water. This video captured two Chinese warships, the first one is the fast missile attack craft 753, and the second one is the Type 053H1 frigate 金华 534.






Attack craft 753






金华 534

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## GuZidi

Rechoice said:


> we kicked your *** to run back to China and france.



Bad mouth, what you say is illogical of comprehending the real "deal" here.


----------



## Rechoice

xunzi said:


> It is not even long ago, like 30 years ago, that the US supported their friend, British, fought a battle over Falkland. Imperialism still exist with double-face West. We did not increase our territorial gain since the formation of UNCLOS. Not even one inch.



Read again your post, you stated that china would like to use gun, canon, muscle strength to solve the disputes with your neighbors. China does the same US and Britain did. Its bad face.

But story of FalkLand dispute is not the same here in SCS.

The population (an estimated 2,932 in 2012) primarily consists of native, the majority of British descent .Mr. Camoron PM of UK said he is ready for referendum for people in Falkland to decide the Island belong to UK or to Argentina.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## SouryaKharb

According to me making relationship bitter with neighbor countries is not good for China. This kind of behavior can be very harmful for China. Yes, China is very powerfully country this days. But it doesn't mean they can do whatever they want. China is breaking international laws.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## eazzy

Wonder what the US will say ?


----------



## Raphael

TaiShang said:


> They still deny their genocidal history (Reason for sympathy with Japan)



That's an angle I hadn't considered before. They say vultures of a feather flock together.


----------



## Rechoice

GuZidi said:


> Bad mouth, what you say is illogical of comprehending the real "deal" here.



what is real deal you said here ?, politely PLA went home, isn't it ?


----------



## Rechoice

xunzi said:


> Clueless Vietnamese about UNCLOS, don't you? LOL The question is whether Paracel has its own EEZ and that according to international law and neutral experts is yes. Search it up.



Vietnamese people were living in Paracel before china occupied whit force. EZZ of Paracel belong to Vietnam, not China. Paracels is closer to Vietnam than China.


----------



## cnleio

The only thing China should do, is to build more HD981.


----------



## kankan326

Why would China sacrifice her territory and interest to please neighbors? If Vietnam gives up those islands, China would be very happy to be best buddy of Vietnam.

Vietnam is small and weak country compared to China. But weak is not bound to be innocent.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## bolo

Rechoice said:


> China signed with Japan that Taiwan + Senkaku belong to Japan, base on you logic Japan could claim North East China belong to Japan too.


 
My logic is the truth whether you Vietcong like it or not. And you are good at using selective history to make comments, but can be refuted but I will not do the search for you.


----------



## Bob Ong

Edison Chen said:


> Failed states always have common language.


A twisted mind can't think right. China brought this upon themselves and now the Philippines is being blamed for putting things in the right perspective and the proper forum like a civilized country should do.


----------



## Bob Ong

eazzy said:


> Wonder what the US will say ?


The US will support the Philippines against China's indisputable stupidity.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Bob Ong

China missed the opportunity to win over their neighbors after they gained economic status. They lack of social awareness and civil attitude tsk tsk


----------



## TheNoob

Soryu said:


> Only you freaking stupid logic, we never say US do everything is OK.
> You're surely noob



It wasnt pointed at vietnam....

I just felt like saying it out.


----------



## kankan326

atatwolf said:


> What does me being shareholder of Apple have to do with anything? I'm trying to say is that China has paper tiger economy. China is suppressing even ethnic chinese to shut up and work for me for couple of cents so I get my hefty dividend and returns. You are probably one of those that escaped the Apple factory and you come here to talk how great China is. IMHO China has to reevaluate its behavior. Within this decade all production will be moved out of China. You will have to work for Japanese and Turkish companies instead. And I mind you we won't be as nice bosses as the Americans were for you. Best for China IMHO would be to accommodate its neighbors and hope they will forget how Chinese have acted so you can save your economy. Threatening Vietnamese and even threatening the grand nation of Japan won't help you at the end. Just my 2 cents.


Don't talk about future. Future is an assumption that can be created by your wild imagination. Let talk about now and reality.


----------



## terranMarine

Rechoice said:


> Paracels is closer to Vietnam than China.



Since when does distance mean anything to sovereignty? Falkland is next under Argentina and UK is on the other side of the planet.
Again it shows Vietcongs don't have that much intelligence

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Bob Ong

China should tell their fishermen not to add tension by staying out of their neighbors territory. Also to refrain from doing stupid actions such as poaching and catching endangered species. Its beyond comprehension if they still demand that their people who were caught in the act, to be released, and pretend that they did not do anything bad.


----------



## Bob Ong

xunzi said:


> This is the US's fault. They are letting the Philippines too much freedom to behave aggressively. Our American friend needs to resolve this. Pressure the Philippine! Where is our American friend when you need them?


LOL Chinese fishermen entering the Philippines territorial waters illegally, catching endangered turtle species, and China calling the arrest of these fishermen "provocative act". Who's being provocative here?


----------



## zDragonFlyz

xunzi said:


> Clueless Vietnamese about UNCLOS, don't you? LOL The question is whether Paracel has its own EEZ and that according to international law and neutral experts is yes. Search it up.



1) No one whoever signed this Convention can extend the EEZ from a disputed island! Are you an archipelago country? Definitely not. So the EEZ must extend from you BASELINE. If you can read a little bit, read this, not the 'Chinese verion' of this. Oh, is the UN website banned in China? If no, just google 'UNCLOS 1982' to check the source, since I don't have 29 posts yet to post a link. Oh wait, I forget, you don't have google there, right? China is just afraid of the facts, your authorities are scared that chinese people will find out the facts they are hiding _ Can you read this_



> _Article3
> 
> Breadth of the territorial sea
> _
> Every State has the right to establish the breadth of its territorial sea up to a limit not exceeding 12 nautical miles, measured from baselines determined in accordance with this Convention.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Article4
> 
> Outer limit of the territorial sea
> _
> The outer limit of the territorial sea is the line every point of which is at a distance from the nearest point of the baseline equal to the breadth of the territorial sea.
> 
> _Article5
> 
> Normal baseline
> _
> Except where otherwise provided in this Convention, the normal baseline for measuring the breadth of the territorial sea is the low-water line along the coast as marked on large-scale charts officially recognized by the coastal State.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Article6
> 
> Reefs
> _
> In the case of islands situated on atolls or of islands having fringing reefs, the baseline for measuring the breadth of the territorial sea is the seaward low-water line of the reef, as shown by the appropriate symbol on charts officially recognized by the coastal State.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Article7
> 
> Straight baselines
> _
> 1. In localities where the coastline is deeply indented and cut into, or if there is a fringe of islands along the coast in its immediate vicinity, the method of straight baselines joining appropriate points may be employed in drawing the baseline from which the breadth of the territorial sea is measured.
> 
> 2. Where because of the presence of a delta and other natural conditions the coastline is highly unstable, the appropriate points may be selected along the furthest seaward extent of the low-water line and, notwithstanding subsequent regression of the low-water line, the straight baselines shall remain effective until changed by the coastal State in accordance with this Convention.
> 
> 3. The drawing of straight baselines must not depart to any appreciable extent from the general direction of the coast, and the sea areas lying within the lines must be sufficiently closely linked to the land domain to be subject to the regime of internal waters.
> 
> 4. Straight baselines shall not be drawn to and from low-tide elevations, unless lighthouses or similar installations which are permanently above sea level have been built on them or except in instances where the drawing of baselines to and from such elevations has received general international recognition.
> 
> 5. Where the method of straight baselines is applicable under paragraph 1, account may be taken, in determining particular baselines, of economic interests peculiar to the region concerned, the reality and the importance of which are clearly evidenced by long usage.
> 
> 6. The system of straight baselines may not be applied by a State in such a manner as to cut off the territorial sea of another State from the high seas or an exclusive economic zone.



2) OK. Paracels are not legal your islands, since you invaded it in the modern age (1974).
We, Vietnamese, were owning and administrating Paracel Islands from 18th Century, we pitched the flag in 1816, we have a lot of documents about setting our sovereignty and administrating those islands, a lot of documents from the Westerners that recognize and affirm our right. Leave your email and we will send you our proofs. What do you have? Some chinese fishermen visited it? You named it? Well, nothing you have done is relating to claming sovereignty. The chinese never cared about Paracels until the 20th Century when it finally had a little power, and in 1974 you bring your navy there to invade our sovereign islands.



bolo said:


> Waste of time reasoning and educating Vietcong. Agent Orange messed up their brain. No hope for them. Obama can come out and say China is the undisputed owner of Paracel , and these trolls will still come on pdf and waste your time.



From my points and your countrymen points, I think other people can decide who is right and who is reasonable.


----------



## cirr

New16000KW “toy” delivered 07.05.2014






Good for ramming into what you know？


----------



## BoQ77

as so many misunderstand, the best solution is both side submit the case to intl court or arbitrator


----------



## zDragonFlyz

cirr said:


> New16000KW “toy” delivered 07.05.2014
> 
> *the image of a ship*
> 
> Good for ramming into what you know？



Can that ship help you learn the international laws, or help you learn that you have to obey the contract that you created and signed for?
If no, i don't care.

This whole world knows that if you break a contract, you will break more!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## zDragonFlyz

Beast said:


> The viet troll looks very desperate with the amount of troll they post here. When you panic and desperate. The more rubbish they sprouted.
> 
> They know they will never get the oil rig out of the area unless they paid CCP $20billion. They know no Japanese or US warship going to help them... They know their small and outdated patrol craft are not matched to breach pass CMS far superior number and bigger craft.
> 
> They know they can't send military warship and shoot at Chinese ship(That is inviting death).
> 
> The only solution they have is to back down.



You are underestimating Vietnam. And that's really good for us. Thank you.


----------



## zDragonFlyz

kankan326 said:


> Why would China sacrifice her territory and interest to please neighbors? If Vietnam gives up those islands, China would be very happy to be best buddy of Vietnam.
> 
> Vietnam is small and weak country compared to China. But weak is not bound to be innocent.



Paracels are not legal your islands, since you invaded it in the modern age (1974).
We, Vietnamese, were owning and administrating Paracel Islands from 18th Century, we pitched the flag in 1816, we have a lot of documents about setting our sovereignty and administrating those islands, a lot of documents from the Westerners that recognize and affirm our right. Leave your email and we will send you our proofs. What do you have? Some chinese fishermen visited it? You named it? Well, nothing you have done is relating to claiming sovereignty. The chinese never cared about Paracels until the 20th Century when it finally had a little power, and in 1974 you bring your navy there to invade our sovereign islands.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Nike

Status quo is the best solution for all of us, just let arbitrary council to take control over hundreds islands and islet in South China sea and every country hold off all of their claims over South China Sea. 

BTW, It is disgusting to see China claims over all of South China Sea, even they include Natuna and surrounding area in their claims. 

Just like in the picture of their new passport issue






Status quo is the best solution for all of us, just let arbitrary council to take control over hundreds islands and islet in South China sea and every country hold off all of their claims over South China Sea. 

BTW, It is disgusting to see China claims over all of South China Sea, even they include Natuna and surrounding area in their claims. 

Just like in the picture of their new passport issue

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ViXuyen

The Chinese robbed our Paracel Island at gunpoint in 1974 while we were in our civil war. Yet, this same people who believe in might is right are still crying, whining, and begging the Japanese for an official apology for rapping them during WW2

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## kankan326

zDragonFlyz said:


> Paracels are not legal your islands, since you invaded it in the modern age (1974).
> We, Vietnamese, were owning and administrating Paracel Islands from 18th Century, we pitched the flag in 1816, we have a lot of documents about setting our sovereignty and administrating those islands, a lot of documents from the Westerners that recognize and affirm our right. Leave your email and we will send you our proofs. What do you have? Some chinese fishermen visited it? You named it? Well, nothing you have done is relating to claiming sovereignty. The chinese never cared about Paracels until the 20th Century when it finally had a little power, and in 1974 you bring your navy there to invade our sovereign islands.


Wasn't Vietnam a vassal state of China in 18th century? How could Vietnam govern those remote uninhabited islands without full diplomatic function and navy? Ancient Chinese didn't have the concept of sea sovereignty. No to mention ancient Vietnamese. I feel funny that Vietnamese believe their ancestors had the concept beyond the era they lived.


----------



## BoQ77

phillipines is clearer about the right for islands state. but china never respect the other eez, for example phillipines. let see phillipin caught chinese fishermen in their eez or not. china would use historical u shape line instead of unclos

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Rechoice said:


> Vietnamese people were living in Paracel before china occupied whit force. EZZ of Paracel belong to Vietnam, not China. *Paracels is closer to Vietnam than China.*



Nope, Paracel Islands are closer to Hainan (China) than to Vietnam.


----------



## Beast

zDragonFlyz said:


> You are underestimating Vietnam. And that's really good for us. Thank you.



Is what can Vietnam do?  I am waiting?


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

cnleio said:


> atatwolf bring his wet dream back again. LOL, why u looks so funny in PDF ? This time is APPLE, where is ur Stealth Corvette and Samurai Sword ?
> 
> Future after PLAN finish 20x 052C/D and 055 DDGs building, China won't give ur guys NEXT TIME.



Don't forget the Type 095/096.

The Type 095 is comparable to the Seawolf class, and the Type 096 can carry the SLBM JL-3 up to 12000km with 10 MIRVed thermonuclear warheads.


----------



## Bob Ong

It is in our country. To China: Do not say what should the Filipino do in our territory.






Not only that our academic and government research scientists and volunteers recently began exploring Benham Rise. This is bigger than the 10.5-million hectare Luzon, the underwater Benham Rise is believed to be rich in steel-producing minerals and natural gas. This can help the Philippines become energy self-sufficient and even export it in the future.












I just hope China wouldn't come up with old maps and another dashes and claim it has another fake historical rights


----------



## Beast

Bob Ong said:


> The US will support the Philippines against China's indisputable stupidity.



US will say but do nothing. Georgia and Ukraine are best example. But anyway, the area 7 is not under dispute. No issue with China. As for area 3 , no company will dare to go and drill there. CMS ship will make sure the company go bust.


----------



## NiceGuy

> *Blue Ridge encounters Chinese ships near disputed isle*
> 
> 
> 
> A Chinese navy vessel is seen from an MH-60 helicopter assigned to USS Blue Ridge as the U.S. Navy conducts flight operations in support of maritime security operations in the South China Sea.
> U.S. NAVY
> By Erik Slavin
> Stars and Stripes
> Published: May 9, 2014
> 
> YOKOSUKA NAVAL BASE, Japan — A USS Blue Ridge-embarked helicopter photographed two Chinese navy ships May 5 near the site of a heavily contested shoal that has sparked a months-long standoff between China and the Philippines in 2012.
> 
> The Navy’s photo release of two Chinese Navy ships near Scarborough Shoal sparked some online news outlets to label the encounter a confrontation, which 7th Fleet officials disputed Friday.
> 
> USS Blue Ridge, the Japan-based 7th Fleet’s flagship, transited without incident near the two ships, Navy officials said.
> 
> All parties acted professionally, said 7th Fleet spokesman Cmdr. William Marks, who is embarked aboard Blue Ridge.
> 
> “There wasn’t any communication [with the Chinese] due to both Blue Ridge and its helicopter being a safe distance away,” Marks said.
> 
> Hull numbers in the Navy photos indicate the Chinese ships were the destroyer Lanzhou and the frigate Hengshui.
> 
> The visit near Scarborough was not a freedom of navigation operation, Marks said in response to a Stars and Stripes question.
> 
> In 2013, U.S. ships conducted such operations on China, Iran and 10 other countries in order to assert navigation rights in waters that the U.S. and many other countries consider international, according to an annual Defense Department report to Congress.
> 
> However, China’s views on what ships can do while transiting international waters differ from U.S. interpretations.
> 
> China maintains ambiguous claims to about 90 percent of the South China Sea through its “9-dash line” map, which shows dashes surrounding most of the sea. The Philippines filed a 4,000-page brief in international court on March 30 challenging the map, though China has declined to participate in the proceedings.
> 
> In 2012, a Philippine navy vessel attempted to arrest Chinese fishermen for taking coral and sea life from the Scarborough Shoal’s nearby waters, sparking intervention by Chinese maritime surveillance ships.
> 
> The standoff continued for months and sparked protests in both countries.
> 
> Scarborough Shoal lies within the Philippines’ exclusive economic zone, but China claims the shoal and the nearby Spratly Islands based on historical discovery.
> 
> The shoal, alternately referred to as Scarborough Reef, is about 430 miles from the Paracel Islands, where China and Vietnam currently have dozens of ships engaged in a standoff near China’s $1 billion deep water oil rig.
> 
> On May 7, Vietnam released purported video of Chinese ships ramming and firing water cannons at Vietnamese ships there. China claims Vietnam is the aggressor in the waters near the Paracels, which both countries claim.
> 
> Although both the Paracel and Spratly islands are mostly uninhabited, the energy reserves and fisheries in their nearby waters are believed to be extensive.
> Blue Ridge encounters Chinese ships near disputed isle - News - Stripes


China is in difficult situation now, Its navy must stand by and ready for War with VN navy around the oil rig, mean while US and Phil navy r ready to take back Scarborough Shoal 

Lets see if China dare to fight with VN- US-Phil navy at the same time

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## zDragonFlyz

Beast said:


> Is what can Vietnam do?  I am waiting?



Firstly, let's the world know the true face of china. The country that can't do what it signed for. The country that doesn't know that when you sign something, you have to do that. The country that breaks international laws. The greedy invaders.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Beast

NiceGuy said:


> China is in difficult situation now, Its navy must stand by and ready for War with VN navy around the oil rig, mean while US and Phil navy r ready to take back Scarborough Shoal
> 
> Lets see if China dare to fight with VN- US-Phil navy at the same time



 Look after yourself now. Fancy its Vietnam in difficult situation rather in China. Big oil rig still there and drilling oil.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Beast

zDragonFlyz said:


> Firstly, let's the world know the true face of china. The country that can't do what it signed for. The country that doesn't know that when you sign something, you have to do that. The country that breaks international laws. The greedy invaders.



Are you desperate? You talk but no action? Though your compatriot very brave and talkin about fighting China? No action.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## zDragonFlyz

kankan326 said:


> Wasn't Vietnam a vassal state of China in 18th century? How could Vietnam govern those remote uninhabited islands without full diplomatic function and navy? Ancient Chinese didn't have the concept of sea sovereignty. No to mention ancient Vietnamese. I feel funny that Vietnamese believe their ancestors had the concept beyond the era they lived.



You definitely know that your 'vassal state' thing has no effects in the International Court, don't you? It's just what you masturbate with. 
Yes, you didn't have the concept of sea sovereignty. And we had. That's why we had the legal sovereignty. Isn't it so simple?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

anybody knows where the oil rig now is, and how many vessels from VN and CN there?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NiceGuy

Beast said:


> Look after yourself now. Fancy its Vietnam in difficult situation rather in China. Big oil rig still there and drilling oil.


Just wait and see who will get the last laugh. US navy is so close to Scaborough now

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## bolo

Beast said:


> As I say Vietnamese are coward and dare not touch our oil rig. Since you no action then we will drill another spot in nine dash line another day.


 I think the problem here with our Viet friends is that they believe fighting a war is like fighting in a street fight. Acting tough in street fight may work, but not so in war.


----------



## sweetgrape

NiceGuy said:


> Just wait and see who will get the last laugh. US navy is so close to Scaborough now


Excuse me, what do US Navy there has to do with your vietnam? can't understand why you are so happy, don't you know, US Navy always in SCS?


----------



## zDragonFlyz

Beast said:


> Are you desperate? You talk but no action? Though your compatriot very brave and talkin about fighting China? No action.



Wait and see, man. This is not over yet.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Raphael

I hope someone remembers to bump this thread after the US ship fails to do anything in a week's time.


----------



## NiceGuy

Raphael said:


> I hope someone remembers to bump this thread after the US ship fails to do anything in a week's time.





sweetgrape said:


> Excuse me, what do US Navy there has to do with your vietnam? can't understand why you are so happy, don't you know, US Navy always in SCS?


China navy is busy with ours around the Oil rig. Its a perfect time for Phil to take back Scaborough with US navy's support. We r happy for Filipino coz they have a very good chance to take back the shoal now

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## sweetgrape

NiceGuy said:


> China navy is busy with ours around the Oil rig. Its a perfect time for Phil to take back Scaborough with US navy's support. We r happy for Filipino coz they have a very good chance to take back the shoal now


Woo, you are very great, and delusional, hehe!


----------



## eazzy

The Philippines looks like a partly submerged UK.

The Philippines looks like a partly submerged UK.


----------



## eazzy

^ Nope, but it can help Viet learn these few things.


----------



## Viet

I wonder why the Russians keep silent?
Comrade Putin needs to slap chinese face one right and one left.

and we need to equip our vessels quickly with water canons. I don´t understand why we fail to do so.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## zDragonFlyz

eazzy said:


> ^ Nope, but it can help Viet learn these few things.



China is powerful, it's true, but it doesn't mean that China can reward itself the right to break international laws.
If you dont obey the contract that you have signed for, will there be anyone who still believes you?



Viet said:


> I wonder why the Russians keep silent?
> 
> Comrade Putin needs to slap chinese face one right and one left.



Don't rely on Russia, man. They just sell guns.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## zDragonFlyz

It's absolutely indisputable area. Philippines people have the right to drill oil there by themselves. It's their own Exclusive Economic Zone. China has its own EEZ and must drill oil only in their areas, not others' areas.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

zDragonFlyz said:


> Don't rely on Russia, man. They just sell guns.


will the Russians accept chinese hegemony in Asia?
I don´t think so.

Chinese are greedy, they will try to get back their "lost" land to Russia.


----------



## zDragonFlyz

Viet said:


> will the Russians accept chinese hegemony in Asia?
> I don´t think so.
> 
> Chinese are greedy, they will try to get their "lost" land to Russia.



Russia just doesn't care. They just sell guns, and China buy a lot. Btw China is helping Russia in Ukraine, and Russia is very appreciate.
So, never rely on people who sell you guns.


----------



## Beast

zDragonFlyz said:


> Wait and see, man. This is not over yet.



I wait for 10 years and probably still no action. By then we have empty the oil already. 



NiceGuy said:


> So, pls dont get kill by terrorist before u can see another oil rig in our water
> 
> Dont forget ur terrorist attack with knife, its very hard to be detected ,so they can kill u guys and bring chao at any public area :
> 
> 
> Just keep waiting and watching , the clash still go on , dude



I thought the terrorist also killed vietnamese border guard?  Self- pwned.


----------



## zDragonFlyz

Rechoice said:


> Vietnamese people were living in Paracel before china occupied whit force. EZZ of Paracel belong to Vietnam, not China. Paracels is closer to Vietnam than China.



No. Let's just make every statement correct. We are not chinese, and we don't tell lies.
1) Vietnamese people were not living their. We set the sovereignty, claimed the sovereignty,administrated it, pitched the flag, ... but we just garrisoned there, not lived.
2) Paracels are just islands. Vietnam is not an archipelago country, so Parcels doesn't have EEZ.



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Nope, Paracel Islands are closer to Hainan (China) than to Vietnam.


1) Paracel is 200 miles far from Ly Son island and 230 miles far from Hainan island.
2) 'Closer' is not the way to prove the sovereignty. Did you claim it at the authorities level without objection in that time? Did you administrate it without objection in that time? Did you treat it as your territory at that time? Did you pitch the flag there? Didn't you invade it from other people by force? ... Those things matter, not the distance.


----------



## zDragonFlyz

Beast said:


> I wait for 10 years and probably still no action. By then we have empty the oil already.



Not that long, man. Just wait. What will come will come 
Invaders are invaders. They can stay, yes, but not for long. Things always go that way.


----------



## Bob Ong

Beast said:


> US will say but do nothing. Georgia and Ukraine are best example. But anyway, the area 7 is not under dispute. No issue with China. As for area 3 , no company will dare to go and drill there. CMS ship will make sure the company go bust.


The last time I checked Georgia and Ukraine are not treaty allies of US. And I don’t think the US will leave the Philippines alone in this issue especially now that the latest agreement is sealed. Our government is working with allies to build enough deterrence and military capabilities against future aggression towards our country. THIS is what Obama's pledge is all about. This is what we are hoping to achieve with sharing the bases with US military. 



zDragonFlyz said:


> It's absolutely indisputable area. Philippines people have the right to drill oil there by themselves. It's their own Exclusive Economic Zone. China has its own EEZ and must drill oil only in their areas, not others' areas.


Yes you're right. The Philippines is in the right track. The fact that it is within the 200 nautical mile Exclusive economic Zone, so there's nothing to be afraid of. China's claims is based only in fake history, so its not a valid claim.


----------



## Bob Ong

These actuations of China has made it an irresponsible regional power and definitely unworthy to be a superpower.


----------



## zDragonFlyz

Bob Ong said:


> Yes you're right. The Philippines is in the right track. The fact that it is within the 200 nautical mile Exclusive economic Zone, so there's nothing to be afraid of. China's claims is based only in fake history, so its not a valid claim.



In fact China's claim is based on Nothing. Their so-called 'historical proofs' are some chinese fishermen came there and they named the islands. There is no action related to claiming sovereignty at the authorities level from them.


----------



## Snomannen

I love turtles, therefore I'm not supporting the Chinese government this time.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Bob Ong

zDragonFlyz said:


> In fact China's claim is based on Nothing. Their so-called 'historical proofs' are some chinese fishermen came there and they named the islands. There is no action related to claiming sovereignty at the authorities level from them.


As we all know Chinese are good in reinventing their history, that’s why they are avoiding arbitration or mediation because they lack a solid foundation about their claims. Filipinos and Vietnamese cannot trust these people, they never live to their commitments, and in short they stab your back while you’re at sleep. If you give them a bite, they will eat you up bit by bit until nothing is left. It's like a virus, spreading all over the place. The whole world must be warned to be vigilant on the Chinese activities as they have the potential to become a global threat to the environment and peace if left unchecked.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

KirovAirship said:


> I love turtles, therefore I'm not supporting the Chinese government this time.



I don't support the actions of poaching the endangered turtles either, but i see this as a good opportunity for China to spank Philippines for good.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

zDragonFlyz said:


> Russia just doesn't care. They just sell guns, and China buy a lot. Btw China is helping Russia in Ukraine, and Russia is very appreciate.
> So, never rely on people who sell you guns.


the Chinese did not help Russia in Crimea. they stayed neutral.

okay, Russia needs money, and they get from selling stuffs to the Chinese.
but we have seen in history that sometimes politics has played a more dominant role than economics.

let wait how the Russians see this escalation. I am pretty sure if we win Russia, we will win this confrontation. a hostile Russia is the absolute nightmare for the Chinese. a two-front war.


----------



## Snomannen

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> I don't support the actions of poaching the endangered turtles either, but i see this as a good opportunity for China to spank Philippines for good.



Some of those fishermen are really troublesome, they even sneaked to Korean water and stole fishy.
I do wish that the Chinese government _really _has some good plan to get them back, otherwise things will get ugly.


----------



## Krueger

Jakarta Globe
May 09, 2014







_Indonesian Foreign Minister Marty Natalegawa wants to come up with a solution to territorial disputes of the South China Sea. (AFP Photo/Adek Berry)_

*Naypyidaw, Myanmar*. Indonesian Foreign Minister Marty Natalegawa said on Friday that it was important for members of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations and China “to quickly conclude” the talks on a code of conduct on the South China Sea.

*“The recent incident in the South China Sea reminded us of the importance of concluding the code of conduct on that body of water,”* said Marty on Friday, ahead of this weekend’s Asean Summit in Myanmar’s capital, Naypyidaw.

China claims sovereignty over nearly all of the resource-rich sea, home to vital shipping lanes, but Asean members including the Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia and Brunei have overlapping claims.

The South China Sea, which potentially has abundant reserves of crude oil and natural gas, is widely considered as a flashpoint for a potential military conflict with China, which recently has been exerting its influence in the region.

Tensions are high after a collision between Chinese and Vietnamese vessels in the disputed area last week.

Vietnam has accused China of conducting drilling operations outside its territory, while the Chinese government believes otherwise and accuses Vietnam of intentionally provoking the incident, according to a report from Reuters.

*“The risk of an incident is very real. I hope the current meetings in Myanmar will reinforce further recognition of that fact,”* said the minister.

Marty added that what’s happening on the ground was “not helping” and “could derail the talks”.

The minister added that the talks between Asean and the Chinese had yielded positive results.

Indonesia has been pushing for the code of conduct, which will act to restrain the issue turning into a full-blown military conflict.

Building trust, avoiding conflicts and maintaining a conducive situation in the South China Sea was the goal of the code, according to Marty.

Rahmat Pramono, Indonesia’s ambassador to Asean, said the government hopes the summit in Myanmar will produce a joint statement that will highlight the importance of the issue to the 10-member Asean.

“We are working toward a common goal and understanding, but how will it sound and how it will be worded is another issue,” said Rahmat, adding that not all members had agreed to an understanding

The issue of the South China Sea almost divided Asean after leaders failed for the first time to produce a joint communique in the wake of the 2012 summit in Cambodia.

Marty then embarked on shuttle diplomacy to save Asean from its first failure, even if it was only a simple, well-written diplomatic statement.

*While China believes that the issue of the disputed sea should be solved in a bilateral manner, Asean is pushing for a multilateral approach.*

Indonesia, as the largest member in the group of Southeast Asian nations and a non-claimant state in the quarrel, is seen as an ideal, neutral broker.

Indonesia Stresses Importance of Code of Conduct in South China Sea | The Jakarta Globe


----------



## Snomannen

Viet said:


> the Chinese did not help Russia in Crimea. they stayed neutral.
> 
> okay, Russia needs money, and they get from selling stuffs to the Chinese.
> but we have seen in history that sometimes politics has played a more dominant role than economics.
> 
> let wait how the Russians see this escalation. I am pretty sure if we win Russia, we will win this confrontation. a hostile Russia is the absolute nightmare for the Chinese. a two-front war.



Being neutral was already considered as a help, since Putin thanked China (and India).

------------------------------------------------------------





Well I don't see the problem over this action, Vietnam is also digging tons of oil from the SCS yearly without "China's permission".

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

KirovAirship said:


> Some of those fishermen are really troublesome, they even sneaked to Korean water and stole fishy.
> I do wish that the Chinese government _really _has some good plan to get them back, otherwise things will get ugly.



Yep, that's true, they are dragging us into the additional mess.

But CPC is indeed a very good babysitter, so some people should stop blaming CPC for everything.

Imagine if it is KMT, they wouldn't even do a damn thing.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> the Chinese did not help Russia in Crimea. they stayed neutral.
> 
> okay, Russia needs money, and they get from selling stuffs to the Chinese.
> but we have seen in history that sometimes politics has played a more dominant role than economics.
> 
> let wait how the Russians see this escalation. *I am pretty sure if we win Russia, we will win this confrontation. a hostile Russia is the absolute nightmare for the Chinese. a two-front war.*



Russia does care more about money than they do care about Vietnam.

Russia-China: When one door closes, another opens — RT Op-Edge


----------



## Snomannen

zDragonFlyz said:


> In fact China's claim is based on Nothing. Their so-called 'historical proofs' are some chinese fishermen came there and they named the islands. There is no action related to claiming sovereignty at the authorities level from them.



Vietnam also claims "Philippines" water and islands based on Vietnamese 'historical proofs' from Vietnamese fishermen, you both even have conflicted with each other over this issue and I remember that you even took at least one of "their" island and killed some of their men.


----------



## zDragonFlyz

KirovAirship said:


> Well I don't see the problem over this action, Vietnam is also digging tons of oil from the SCS yearly without "China's permission".



We drill inside our Exclusive Economic Zone. Go to dig inside your EEZ and there will be no problem. Why do you have to drill in other's EEZ when you already have yours?


----------



## Viet

KirovAirship said:


> Being neutral was already considered as a help, since Putin thanked China (and India).
> 
> Well I don't see the problem over this action, Vietnam is also digging tons of oil from the SCS yearly without "China's permission".


Russia just wants to share the pain with you, while keeping the booty. Many countries remained neutral in Crimea case. just check the votes on the UN summit.

we are digging oil in our EEZ, like you in yours.
we got problem when you begin digging a hole in our seabed. can we do the same in the East China Sea?



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Russia does care more about money than they do care about Vietnam.
> 
> Russia-China: When one door closes, another opens — RT Op-Edge


we haven´t seen any reactions from Russia yet.
what you say is just speculation.


----------



## Krueger

*Aquino to Press Asean Leaders on China*
*Philippine President to Address China's Growing Assertiveness*
*The Wall Street Journal May 9, 2014*







*MANILA—Philippine President Benigno Aquino III will try to focus Southeast Asian leaders’ discussions on China’s growing assertiveness in the South China Sea when they gather this weekend.*

*“The South China Sea issue will definitely feature prominently in the discussion at the Asean summit,” *Charles Jose, spokesman for the Philippines’ Department of Foreign Affairs, told the Wall Street Journal, adding that Mr. Aquino would address the issue at the plenary on Sunday.

Leaders of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations will meet in Myanmar just days after a tense maritime exchange between Vietnam and China over a Chinese oil rig off the contested Paracel Islands. Territorial friction between China and the Philippines also flared up this week after Philippine maritime police apprehended Chinese fishermen for allegedly poaching protected sea turtles near the Spratly Islands.

Asean has for years grappled with how to handle its members’ territorial disputes with China, a major economic partner for the region. While clashes have occurred from time to time, analysts say this past week’s events marked a significant escalation.

Territorial disputes aren’t part of the agenda for this weekend’s summit, which is aimed at regional integration and participation in the Group of 20 summit in November.

*Mr. Aquino has been an outspoken critic of China’s claim to nearly all of the South China Sea, a body of water that contains important international shipping lanes, large deposits of oil and natural gas and some of the world’s richest fishing grounds. The Philippines last year launched a legal challenge to China’s claim at a U.N. tribunal in The Hague. China hasn’t submitted to the arbitration and prefers that disputes be settled with individual countries.*

Mr. Jose said Mr. Aquino will seek to accelerate talks on the Code of Conduct in the South China Sea, a long-pending proposal that would promote cooperative activities in the region and a peaceful and lasting solution to the many territorial disputes within it.

Mr. Aquino has raised the issue of South China Sea tensions at the Asean summit previously. In 2012, he disputed a statement issued by Cambodia, then the summit’s chairman, that Asean members had agreed not to “internationalize” the issue.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304655304579551472073268290?mod=wsj_streaming_stream&mg=reno64-wsj&url=http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304655304579551472073268290.html?mod=wsj_streaming_stream


----------



## k_arura

Beast said:


> US will say but do nothing. Georgia and Ukraine are best example. But anyway, the area 7 is not under dispute. No issue with China. As for area 3 , no company will dare to go and drill there. CMS ship will make sure the company go bust.



Don't ever dare step on the Big Dog's tail. Japan did it at Pearl Harbor and the rest is history.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> we haven´t seen any reactions from Russia yet.
> what you say is just speculation.



You claimed that we did stay neutral about Ukraine, so you should expect Russia to be the same about the SCS.


----------



## zDragonFlyz

KirovAirship said:


> Vietnam also claims "Philippines" water and islands based on Vietnamese 'historical proofs' from Vietnamese fishermen, you both even have conflicted with each other over this issue and I remember that you even took at least one of "their" island and killed some of their men.



1) We signed the UNCLOS so we don't claim waters. We have our 200-mile EEZ that extends from our baseline near our shore.
2) We have real history proofs from the *authorities level* (claiming, setting sovereignty, pitching flag, administrating..), not from fishermen level like china (not visiting, naming or dying there like china). After all we use it to beat chinese 'invisible historical proofs'.
3) Philippines can drill whatsoever inside their EEZ. Vietnam can drill whatsoever inside our EEZ. It's just simple like that. We don't drill in the other's EEZ like China, so there will be no problem.
4) Since both Vietnam and Philippines are not aggressive invaders, Vietnam respect Philippines' proofs and PoVs, we can solve this peacefully.


----------



## Snomannen

Viet said:


> Russia just wants to share the pain with you, while keeping the booty. Many countries remained neutral in Crimea case. just check the votes on the UN summit.
> 
> we are digging oil in our EEZ, like you in yours.
> we got problem when you begin digging a hole in our seabed. can we do the same in the East China Sea?



Meh, the West is not that silly to try to fight three of the biggest nations in the world.
If Putin only mentioned China, then that was really a "pain sharing". But in reality Russian also mentioned Indina, which means that they wanted to improve their reputation by proving and showing the world that not the whole world is standing against Rissia and Russia they do have "reasonable buddies".

Not to mention India isn't "commie" and it is traditionally sided with the West. 

That EEZ was considered as "Chinese water" by Chinese government, you do know that right?
Yes of course you can as well, I don't see the problem either. You can even dig oil near HK or Macao.
For ME that is no problem at all.


----------



## zDragonFlyz

KirovAirship said:


> That EEZ was considered as "Chinese water" by Chinese government, you do know that right?
> Yes of course you can as well, I don't see the problem either. You can even dig oil near HK or Macao.
> For ME that is no problem at all.



So if chinese government want to consider other's EEZ as their 'Chinese water', why the heck do they created and signed the UNCLOS 1982? I'm confussed.


----------



## Snomannen

zDragonFlyz said:


> 1) We signed the UNCLOS so we don't claim waters. We have our 200-mile EEZ that extends from our baseline near our shore.
> 2) We have real history proofs from the *authorities level* (claiming, setting sovereignty, pitching flag, administrating..), not from fishermen level like china (not visiting, naming or dying there like china). After all we use it to beat chinese 'invisible historical proofs'.
> 3) Philippines can drill whatsoever inside their EEZ. Vietnam can drill whatsoever inside our EEZ. It's just simple like that. We don't drill in the other's EEZ like China, so there will be no problem.
> 4) Since both Vietnam and Philippines are not aggressive invaders, Vietnam respect Philippines' proofs and PoVs, we can solve this peacefully.



1. You did killed their men and stole "their" island, who knows what will really happened if China isn't involved in this game;
2. Your history proofs even proofed that those islands aren't even yours, you people abandoned Hanji and messed up your own historical record and mistakes "Chinese islands" as "yours";
3,4. Maybe not for Vietnam, but the Philippines.


----------



## Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> You claimed that we did stay neutral about Ukraine, so you should expect Russia to be the same about the SCS.


NO, we expect Russia to support our stance. that is very important. If Russia supports our stance, we will win the game. very simple. If not, that is very serious problem for us. If Russia stays neutral, everything is not lost.

I am sure, the next hours and days will decide the future of the SC Sea. that is a very high stakes game. But one is sure, Vietnam will never back down.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> NO, we expect Russia to support our stance. that is very important. If Russia supports our stance, we will win the game. very simple. If not, that is very serious problem for us. If Russia stays neutral, everything is not lost.
> 
> I am sure, the next hours and days will decide the future of the SC Sea.



Sure, you can bring Russia to your side if you are more important and richer than China.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

TheNoob said:


> It wasnt pointed at vietnam....
> 
> I just felt like saying it out.


yes, I think so, now.
Look like I was just overreacting, sorry.
But Chinese was doing bad things, it's truth.


----------



## Viet

KirovAirship said:


> Meh, the West is not that silly to try to fight three of the biggest nations in the world.
> If Putin only mentioned China, then that was really a "pain sharing". But in reality Russian also mentioned Indina, which means that they wanted to improve their reputation by proving and showing the world that not the whole world is standing against Rissia and Russia they do have "reasonable buddies".
> 
> Not to mention India isn't "commie" and it is traditionally sided with the West.
> 
> That EEZ was considered as "Chinese water" by Chinese government, you do know that right?
> Yes of course you can as well, I don't see the problem either. You can even dig oil near HK or Macao.
> For ME that is no problem at all.


digging oil near your home?

I believe digging money out of mainlanders money pocket is more lucrative. LOL

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## zDragonFlyz

Viet said:


> NO, we expect Russia to support our stance. that is very important. If Russia supports our stance, we will win the game. very simple. If not, that is very serious problem for us. If Russia stays neutral, everything is not lost.
> 
> I am sure, the next hours and days will decide the future of the SC Sea. that is a very high stakes game. But one is sure, Vietnam will never back down.



Again. Never rely on Russia. They are arms dealers. They sell guns. Support us? They just don't care. The only thing they care is we buy guns from them, that's all.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Snomannen

zDragonFlyz said:


> So if chinese government want to consider other's EEZ as their 'Chinese water', why the heck do they created and signed the UNCLOS 1982? I'm confussed.


They are not "considering other's EEZ as their 'Chinese water'", they are having "a different size of EEZ". If you know what I mean. 

The United Nations asks for respect for all nations' sovereignty yet also tell you that human rights should be over sovereignty. Isn't it a contradiction? Well that's how the game run.



Viet said:


> digging oil near your home?
> 
> I believe digging money out of mainlanders money pocket is more lucrative. LOL



We have had enough goddamn $$, we are super poor that all we have is only $$.
The water is lonely and we can use some new attractions, so why don't you set up your oil rag here. You can probably even dig out sth more valuable than oil here, such as my lost ID card.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## zDragonFlyz

KirovAirship said:


> 1. You did killed their men and stole "their" island, who knows what will really happened if China isn't involved in this game;
> 2. Your history proofs even proofed that those islands aren't even yours, you people abandoned Hanji and messed up your own historical record and mistakes "Chinese islands" as "yours";
> 3,4. Maybe not for Vietnam, but the Philippines.



1) Proof for this? Where and when did we kill Filipino soldiers?
2) Since you are not taking things seriously, I don't have to answer these trolling, provoking, nonsense and meaningless words.
3+4) It's your personal idea. We don't care what you think.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## zDragonFlyz

KirovAirship said:


> They are not "considering other's EEZ as their 'Chinese water'", they are having "a different size of EEZ". If you know what I mean.
> 
> The United Nations asks for respect for all nations' sovereignty yet also tell you that human rights should be over sovereignty. Isn't it a contradiction? Well that's how the game run.



No, I don't know what you mean clearly. From what I understand, you mean that China don't respect and obey International Laws. They reward themselves the right not to obey the contract they signed for.

And I don't know that chinese guys have some kind of 'human right', since they are not allowed to use google, and some other interesting sites that can let the people know what their governments are hiding from them.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

zDragonFlyz said:


> Oh wait, I forget, you don't have google there, right?



You lack knowledge of basic facts.

Google still has a decent market share in China, though far behind Baidu of course.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## zDragonFlyz

Chinese-Dragon said:


> You lack knowledge of basic facts.
> 
> Google still has a decent market share in China, though far behind Baidu of course.



So, when I was there, why couldn't I access google?
I just did the google search and it says that not only google cn but all other languages like google com. google co uk... are all banned. 
Googe's market in china is due to android stuffs.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Raphael

zDragonFlyz said:


> Again. Never rely on Russia. They are arms dealers. They sell guns. Support us? They just don't care. The only thing they care is we buy guns from them, that's all.



I'm afraid your friend, in his state of utter desperation, is simply not as lucid as you. His solution is for Vietnam to throw its dignity out the window like the Philippines and court anyone with a gun, something the cheapest escort on the street would do. The relationship between Russia and China is like two seasoned business parters. A business partner would never through away a business relationship with a longtime partner for the sake of an escort, even a very pretty escort.


----------



## Snomannen

zDragonFlyz said:


> 1) Proof for this? Where and when did we kill Filipino soldiers?
> 2) Since you are not taking things seriously, I don't have to answer these trolling, provoking, nonsense and meaningless words.
> 3+4) It's your personal idea. We don't care what you think.



1. My mistake, it was southern Vietnamese soldiers killed by the northerners. And I was talking about Southwest Cay;
2. So impolite, ask @Viet your fellow here who can proves me that I am the most goddamn serious member in this fourm.
Check your own book 《大南一統志》Đại Nam nhất thống chí:







Comparing the coordinates, sharp and location of the islands, Vietnam's 東沙 and 萬里長沙 are obviously not China's 西沙 and 南沙.

Vietnamese 黃沙 & 萬里 長沙 are located in the central coast of Vietnam, it has nothing related to Spratly & Paracels, Their descriptions of the environments, latitude, terrain and the description in historic data are totally different.

In fact the real Chu nom of Hoàng Sa is 壩葛鐄, not 黃沙. 

《纂集天南四至路圖書》:
“海中有一長沙, 名_壩葛鐄_, 約長四百里, 闊二十里, 卓立海中。自大佔海門至沙榮, 每西南風, 則諸國商舶內行漂泊在此; 東北風,外行亦漂泊在此, 並皆飢死。貨物各置其處。阮氏每年冬季月持船十八隻,來此取貨, 多得金銀、錢幣、銃彈等物。”

Besides they were not fishermen, they are scholars, navigators, officers and soliders.

3,4 Killing Moro people for hundreds year obviously isn't my personal idea.



Hu Songshan said:


> Keep the thread on topic.



Oops, sorry, I don't mind if you delete all the off-topic posts here.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Sasquatch

Keep the thread on topic.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Nope, Paracel Islands are closer to Hainan (China) than to Vietnam.



Nope.

The distance from Paracel to Vietnam is 121 nautical miles, to China is 140 nautical miles.


----------



## Rechoice

Viet said:


> will the Russians accept chinese hegemony in Asia?
> I don´t think so.
> Chinese are greedy, they will try to get back their "lost" land to Russia.



Russia Navy opened fire for warning on Chinese ships when they invaded in to water of Russia territory. cowardice Chinese.


----------



## Rechoice

KirovAirship said:


> Vietnamese 黃沙 & 萬里 長沙 are located in the central coast of Vietnam, it has nothing related to Spratly & Paracels, Their descriptions of the environments, latitude, terrain and the description in historic data are totally different.



Islands is closer to our mainland in map to demonstration that Islands is part of Vietnam.


----------



## terranMarine

Viet said:


> NO, we expect Russia to support our stance. that is very important. If Russia supports our stance, we will win the game. very simple. If not, that is very serious problem for us. If Russia stays neutral, everything is not lost.
> 
> I am sure, the next hours and days will decide the future of the SC Sea. that is a very high stakes game. But one is sure, Vietnam will never back down.



This is an example of a truly greedy Vietcong. Doesn't want to support Russia on the Crimea issue but expect Russia to support your poor jungle? What next? Want uncle Sam to support you guys but don't want to let them use your soil and rape your women?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Speeder 2

Rechoice said:


> Islands is closer to our mainland in map to demonstration that Islands is part of Vietnam.




I fully agree. 

And Vietnam is closer to Chinese mainland in map to demonstration that Vietnam is part of China.

And you are closer to moron in deed to demonstration that you are part of morons, too?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## zDragonFlyz

KirovAirship said:


> 1. My mistake, it was southern Vietnamese soldiers killed by the northerners. And I was talking about Southwest Cay;
> 2. So impolite, ask @Viet your fellow here who can proves me that I am the most goddamn serious member in this fourm.
> Check your own book 《大南一統志》Đại Nam nhất thống chí:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comparing the coordinates, sharp and location of the islands, Vietnam's 東沙 and 萬里長沙 are obviously not China's 西沙 and 南沙.
> 
> Vietnamese 黃沙 & 萬里 長沙 are located in the central coast of Vietnam, it has nothing related to Spratly & Paracels, Their descriptions of the environments, latitude, terrain and the description in historic data are totally different.
> 
> In fact the real Chu nom of Hoàng Sa is 壩葛鐄, not 黃沙.
> 
> 《纂集天南四至路圖書》:
> “海中有一長沙, 名_壩葛鐄_, 約長四百里, 闊二十里, 卓立海中。自大佔海門至沙榮, 每西南風, 則諸國商舶內行漂泊在此; 東北風,外行亦漂泊在此, 並皆飢死。貨物各置其處。阮氏每年冬季月持船十八隻,來此取貨, 多得金銀、錢幣、銃彈等物。”
> 
> Besides they were not fishermen, they are scholars, navigators, officers and soliders.
> 
> 3,4 Killing Moro people for hundreds year obviously isn't my personal idea.
> 
> 
> 
> Oops, sorry, I don't mind if you delete all the off-topic posts here.



1) So, stick with the topic, CHINA VIOLATES INTERNATIONAL LAWS and that's all
2) There are many other names for Hoang Sa; Bai Cat Vang, Con Vang.
You have to compare them to other evidences.
The islands that are located in the central coast of Vietnam actually have civilian who live there. Our Authorities created Paracel Naval Team and North Sea Naval Team from men who live in those islands. These teams were ordered to administrate the Paracels (because there were no civilian there), exploit resources, taking remains from sunk ships... It takes 3 days 3 nights to go to Paracels from their islands if they go continuously (without resting).
See 'Phu Bien Tap Luc' from Le Quy Don. You should do the google search yourself since I'm not allowed to post links yet.

The Paracel is seemly located near the shore is due to our old and bad techniques. See how things go when we use our new technique:






I'm not yet mentioning about evidences that say 'The distance from Vietnam Coast to Vietnam's Paracel is approximately equal to the distance from China's Hainan to Vietnam's Paracel'

Besides, scholars, navigators, officers and soliders are just at the fishermen level, not the authorities level. Even the fishermen still have no action that are related to claiming sovereignty. Are the any words from your kings or their representatives about claiming sovereignty? Don't tell me fishermen and stuffs were also kings' representatives, it's not gonna work at all.

3+4) It's yours. Ask Filipino here do they think like that?



Rechoice said:


> Islands is closer to our mainland in map to demonstration that Islands is part of Vietnam.



If you don't know something, keep silence and let's the other who knows about that issue talk. Things never go like that
I would be very appreciate if you don't act like the chinese: making false statements.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Beast

Viet said:


> NO, we expect Russia to support our stance. that is very important. If Russia supports our stance, we will win the game. very simple. If not, that is very serious problem for us. If Russia stays neutral, everything is not lost.
> 
> I am sure, the next hours and days will decide the future of the SC Sea. that is a very high stakes game. But one is sure, Vietnam will never back down.



Are you naive? Do you have $30 billion to give Russian?  Why Russian wants to support Vietnam to go against China?


----------



## Victor Xu

Beast said:


> Are you naive? Do you have $30 billion to give Russian?  Why Russian wants to support Vietnam to go against China?


看到naive这个词就笑了……too young, too naive


----------



## Beast

Victor Xu said:


> 看到naive这个词就笑了……too young, too naive


还好越南VCP 没那么笨。


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

Viet said:


> NO, we expect Russia to support our stance. that is very important. If Russia supports our stance, we will win the game. very simple. If not, that is very serious problem for us. If Russia stays neutral, everything is not lost.
> 
> I am sure, the next hours and days will decide the future of the SC Sea. that is a very high stakes game. But one is sure, Vietnam will never back down.


Just need Russians sent us good toys and do together with us oil drilling in Vietnam's EEZ as usual, that is enough...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Victor Xu

zDragonFlyz said:


> So, when I was there, why couldn't I access google?
> I just did the google search and it says that not only google cn but all other languages like google com. google co uk... are all banned.
> Googe's market in china is due to android stuffs.


C'mon dude,why don't you just search“google" in baidu?you know what,I find this website in Google.hk.


----------



## zDragonFlyz

Victor Xu said:


> C'mon dude,why don't you just search“google" in baidu?you know what,I find this website in Google.hk.



Because I can't search about stuffs like Tiananmen square massacre, Vietnam's evidence and proof for the sovereignty over Paracels or UN's English version of the UNCLOS 1982... in baidu.


----------



## Victor Xu

zDragonFlyz said:


> Because I can't search about stuffs like Tiananmen square massacre, Vietnam's evidence and proof for the sovereignty over Paracels or UN's English version of the UNCLOS 1982... in baidu.


Oh,friend.trust me, there was no a massacre in tiananmen. I know what you mean., but that was a rumor. Many participants can prove that there was no gunfire at tiananmen square.


----------



## zDragonFlyz

Victor Xu said:


> Oh,friend.trust me, there was no a massacre in tiananmen. I know what you mean., but that was a rumor. Many participants can prove that there was no gunfire at tiananmen square.



Points taken. That's why I can't search for Tiananmen square massacre in China. China are hiding something that doesn't exist. Seems legit.


----------



## Victor Xu

zDragonFlyz said:


> Points taken. That's why I can't search for Tiananmen square massacre in China. China are hiding something that doesn't exist. Seems legit.


You are wrong. You misunderstand me. Chinese government did not conceal what happened that day at the beginning, instead, there are many official newspapers reported this event. But soon things became different, this event became a weapon of the western countries to blame china. Many western medias spreaded rumors(just like tiananmen massacre)about that event. So finally the authority decided to forbid all stuffs about 64event.


----------



## Snomannen

zDragonFlyz said:


> 1) So, stick with the topic, CHINA VIOLATES INTERNATIONAL LAWS and that's all
> 2) There are many other names for Hoang Sa; Bai Cat Vang, Con Vang.
> You have to compare them to other evidences.
> The islands that are located in the central coast of Vietnam actually have civilian who live there. Our Authorities created Paracel Naval Team and North Sea Naval Team from men who live in those islands. These teams were ordered to administrate the Paracels (because there were no civilian there), exploit resources, taking remains from sunk ships... It takes 3 days 3 nights to go to Paracels from their islands if they go continuously (without resting).
> See 'Phu Bien Tap Luc' from Le Quy Don. You should do the google search yourself since I'm not allowed to post links yet.
> 
> The Paracel is seemly located near the shore is due to our old and bad techniques. See how things go when we use our new technique:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not yet mentioning about evidences that say 'The distance from Vietnam Coast to Vietnam's Paracel is approximately equal to the distance from China's Hainan to Vietnam's Paracel'
> 
> Besides, scholars, navigators, officers and soliders are just at the fishermen level, not the authorities level. Even the fishermen still have no action that are related to claiming sovereignty. Are the any words from your kings or their representatives about claiming sovereignty? Don't tell me fishermen and stuffs were also kings' representatives, it's not gonna work at all.
> 
> 3+4) It's yours. Ask Filipino here do they think like that?



That's actually one of the points I was talking about. For some reason Hoang Sa has another name of Cat Vang and Cat Vang became 黃沙. Besides the "range" of Paracel wasn't as same as nowadays.
This is actually similar that some people consider those islands found in Song and Han Dynasty in SCS are 西沙 and 南沙 yet they seems different.

I never take "fishermen" as an emphasis.
Those scholars, navigators, officers and soldiers did represent and sent by their emperors to protect and measure the water, especially in Yuan and Qing dynasty.
But I think we should make a stop here otherwise we will probably get banned, we can continue this topic if there is a new relevant thread opened here. Nice to talk with you anyway, you are kind of reasonable unlike some of the other guys here.


----------



## zDragonFlyz

KirovAirship said:


> That's actually one of the points I was talking about. For some reason Hoang Sa has another name of Cat Vang and Cat Vang became 黃沙. Besides the "range" of Paracel wasn't as same as nowadays.
> This is actually similar that some people consider those islands found in Song and Han Dynasty in SCS are 西沙 and 南沙 yet they seems different.
> 
> I never take "fishermen" as an emphasis.
> Those scholars, navigators, officers and soldiers did represent and sent by their emperors to protect and measure the water, especially in Yuan and Qing dynasty.
> But I think we should make a stop here otherwise we will probably get banned, we can continue this topic if there is a new relevant thread opened here. Nice to talk with you anyway, you are kind of reasonable unlike some of the other guys here.



Yes, it means that the name cannot stand alone. There must be other description to accompany that name. For us, we have information about the work of authorized Paracel Naval Team and North Sea Naval Team to support our argument, as long as there are many other geological description which clearly show that our Paracel is far from the shore (eg. 3 days 3 nights continuously going or the distance from there to Vietnam and China are approximately the same...)

I believe that 'measuring' is one of the geological stuffs and have no use here, unless the authorities did claim the sovereignty. After all the International Court will be able to tell us who is right, who is wrong.

I admit that some Vietnamese don't know clearly their own evidences. It can lead into some misunderstanding. But I do know.
I know that Hongkonger are always reasonable, because they are much more better educated than the mainland chinese. We can speak to Hongkonger, unlike some mainland chinese here who don't give a hell about proof, evidence and international laws.

And yes, I believe we should stick with the topic, about international laws first.


----------



## xunzi

Bob Ong said:


> LOL Chinese fishermen entering the Philippines territorial waters illegally, catching endangered turtle species, and China calling the arrest of these fishermen "provocative act". Who's being provocative here?


Do you understand that you cannot use your 200 miles to claim island/reef/rock that are occupied by a foreign force before your independent and especially prior to the formation of UNCLOS? You are very lucky that most westerners are stupid and not really paying detail attention to your historic claim and evidence in this whole dispute.


----------



## NiceGuy

Beast said:


> Are you naive? Do you have $30 billion to give Russian?  Why Russian wants to support Vietnam to go against China?


Bcz Russia has border conflict with China, not with VN, and VN is a good partner to contain China from the South. Russia need China now just bcz US-NATO push Russia too hard.

Btw: Chinese must prepare for higher Oil and raw material price coz our navy seem wanna use all forces to the conflict. The sea lane in SCS(east sea) will be narrowed, China merchant ships will not pass through easily any more 


> Ông cũng lưu ý, hành động này của TQ đã ảnh hưởng trực tiếp đến tuyến đường an ninh hàng hải. Trong quá trình xảy ra vụ việc có rất nhiều tàu container, tàu vận tải đi qua khu vực này. “VN rất lo ngại sự ảnh hưởng an toàn, an ninh cho các phương tiện này. *Nếu hành động vi phạm của TQ tiếp tục diễn ra chắc chắn tuyến đường hàng hải qua khu vực sẽ bị thu hẹp lại. Đây là điều VN không mong muốn”, tướng Đạm nói.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thiếu tướng Nguyen Quang Dam
> Trung Quốc đe dọa quân sự | Chính trị - Xã hội | Thanh Niên Online


Translate:

If China continue violating VN EEZ, the shipping lanes through the area will be narrowed. This is not what we want to, "said Major General Nguyen Quang Dam

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## xunzi

zDragonFlyz said:


> 1) No one whoever signed this Convention can extend the EEZ from a disputed island! Are you an archipelago country? Definitely not. So the EEZ must extend from you BASELINE. If you can read a little bit, read this, not the 'Chinese verion' of this. Oh, is the UN website banned in China? If no, just google 'UNCLOS 1982' to check the source, since I don't have 29 posts yet to post a link. Oh wait, I forget, you don't have google there, right? China is just afraid of the facts, your authorities are scared that chinese people will find out the facts they are hiding _ Can you read this_
> 
> 2) OK. Paracels are not legal your islands, since you invaded it in the modern age (1974).
> We, Vietnamese, were owning and administrating Paracel Islands from 18th Century, we pitched the flag in 1816, we have a lot of documents about setting our sovereignty and administrating those islands, a lot of documents from the Westerners that recognize and affirm our right. Leave your email and we will send you our proofs. What do you have? Some chinese fishermen visited it? You named it? Well, nothing you have done is relating to claming sovereignty. The chinese never cared about Paracels until the 20th Century when it finally had a little power, and in 1974 you bring your navy there to invade our sovereign islands.
> 
> 
> 
> From my points and your countrymen points, I think other people can decide who is right and who is reasonable.


1. There is no dispute in Paracel. We own it 100% when UNCLOS was sign in 1982. There is no dispute, do you understand? Just because your Northern VN regime changed tactic and decided to call it a dispute does not mean it is a dispute. In order to be a dispute, you need to occupy and control at least one or two islands in Paracel Archipelago. Spratly is a dispute because multiple parties occupy and are in control of various islands, reefs, and rocks. At Paracel, there is none. We control and administer all. You want to talk fact, let do it but you better answer and reason with me here.

2. Paracel is a contest territory. In international term, it is open to relevant state to impose their jurisdiction and administrative rights in according with legitimate ownership. Since no one owns Paracel completely. Your Southern VN regime at the time owned the Southern part while we owned the Northern part. But it is not important as I have said Paracel is a contest territory, claimed by both at the time. It is open to anyone to take before any maritime international agreements are signed, such as UNCLOS. In international law, it is fait accompli because we control 100% by the time UNCLOS was sign in 1982. Nobody gives a shit if you own it in 18th century. We can also say we have Ming general outpost in one of the Paracel's island back in 1500s (believe it was the Woody island). It was established to be an extension of Hainan at the time. But you see, nobody gives a shit whatever happen prior to international law taken place which is pre-UNCLOS. The solution is clear, who control what when UNCLOS was sign should be given full consideration for EEZ.

I want to see a westerner reason with me over this. You, on the other hand, is not at my level when it comes to international law dispute, justice.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

Speeder 2 said:


> I fully agree.
> 
> And Vietnam is closer to Chinese mainland in map to demonstration that Vietnam is part of China.
> 
> And you are closer to moron in deed to demonstration that you are part of morons, too?



You are stupid and idiot . There is part of full Vietnam's map, its stated clearly in Chinese character that Hoang Sa (Paracel in English, 黃沙 translated in to Chinese ) and Van Ly Truong Sa ( Spratly in English, 萬里 長沙 translated in to Chinese) is part of Vietnam territory in old map of Vietnam..

When you can't understand Chinese, shut up !





Here is is full map of Vietnam


----------



## Viet

Raphael said:


> I'm afraid your friend, in his state of utter desperation, is simply not as lucid as you. His solution is for Vietnam to throw its dignity out the window like the Philippines and court anyone with a gun, something the cheapest escort on the street would do. The relationship between Russia and China is like two seasoned business parters. A business partner would never through away a business relationship with a longtime partner for the sake of an escort, even a very pretty escort.


bla bla bla...as usual you use bullshit language. escort and so on. what is your solution for Vietnam now?
I assume we shall surrender?

pls send more oil rigs and more warships to Vietnam. we enjoy it.

one thing I can see in your bahavior is you like to lick the boots of the Russians despite they raped you and took a big chunk of your country. Do you have any dignity at all?



Beast said:


> Are you naive? Do you have $30 billion to give Russian?  Why Russian wants to support Vietnam to go against China?


money is just a part of the equation.

answer yourself this question: why do America and Japan support Vietnam in this conflict?


----------



## Rechoice

Demonstration in Ho Chi Ming city protest against China.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

This forum so weird ? 
As many as thread related to the aggression of China in moving Oil rig 981, was removed ?
in favor of Chinese ...

So this forum is just for Pk and cn to mastubate each other ?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Rechoice

BoQ77 said:


> This forum so weird ?
> As many as thread related to the aggression of China in moving Oil rig 981, was removed ?
> in favor of Chinese ...
> 
> So this forum is just for Pk and cn to mastubate each other ?



no problem bro, is just putting in one thread. In chinese defence forum, we should be baned after some our post.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## zDragonFlyz

xunzi said:


> 1. There is no dispute in Paracel. We own it 100% when UNCLOS was sign in 1982. There is no dispute, do you understand? Just because your Northern VN regime changed tactic and decided to call it a dispute does not mean it is a dispute. In order to be a dispute, you need to occupy and control at least one or two islands in Paracel Archipelago. Spratly is a dispute because multiple parties occupy and are in control of various islands, reefs, and rocks. At Paracel, there is none. We control and administer all. You want to talk fact, let do it but you better answer and reason with me here.
> 
> 2. Paracel is a contest territory. In international term, it is open to relevant state to impose their jurisdiction and administrative rights in according with legitimate ownership. Since no one owns Paracel completely. Your Southern VN regime at the time owned the Southern part while we owned the Northern part. But it is not important as I have said Paracel is a contest territory, claimed by both at the time. It is open to anyone to take before any maritime international agreements are signed, such as UNCLOS. In international law, it is fait accompli because we control 100% by the time UNCLOS was sign in 1982. Nobody gives a shit if you own it in 18th century. We can also say we have Ming general outpost in one of the Paracel's island back in 1500s (believe it was the Woody island). It was established to be an extension of Hainan at the time. But you see, nobody gives a shit whatever happen prior to international law taken place which is pre-UNCLOS. The solution is clear, who control what when UNCLOS was sign should be given full consideration for EEZ.
> 
> I want to see a westerner reason with me over this. You, on the other hand, is not at my level when it comes to international law dispute, justice.



1. You have gone nowhere with your 'invisible historical sovereignty'.
Now you are turning into International Laws? It's absolutely interesting, China is talking about International Laws! How ironic =))
*You occupy it 100% does not mean that you have the legal right. We were owning those legally and you invaded us by force. Can you understand that simple thing? *
Besides, the South Vietnam protested your invasion. The new Vietnam (SRVN) protested it too. So, your invasion is protested.
Again, the North Vietnam has nothing to do with Paracel. They have no right with that. I have said before and I won't say it again. Just read.

2.* We own them not only in 18th Century, but from that point to the modern time until you invaded us by force*. We protested it too and haven't quit claiming our sovereignty. If you invaded us in Ming or Qing dynasty time and stuffs, it's a different thing. But you invaded us in 1974, in the modern time when international laws are applied.

3. You just know nothing about UNCLOS and stuffs. In short you have no idea about international laws. Even if we own Paracel now, we can't extends our EEZ from our islands, since we are not an Archipelago Nation.
Your EEZ must extends only from your low-water line, understand?

Read this if you can read:


> *SECTION 2. LIMITS OF THE TERRITORIAL SEA
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Article3
> 
> Breadth of the territorial sea
> _
> Every State has the right to establish the breadth of its territorial sea up to a limit not exceeding 12 nautical miles, measured from baselines determined in accordance with this Convention.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Article4
> 
> Outer limit of the territorial sea
> _
> The outer limit of the territorial sea is the line every point of which is at a distance from the nearest point of the baseline equal to the breadth of the territorial sea.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Article5
> 
> Normal baseline
> _
> Except where otherwise provided in this Convention, the normal baseline for measuring the breadth of the territorial sea is the low-water line along the coast as marked on large-scale charts officially recognized by the coastal State.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Article6
> 
> Reefs
> _
> In the case of islands situated on atolls or of islands having fringing reefs, the baseline for measuring the breadth of the territorial sea is the seaward low-water line of the reef, as shown by the appropriate symbol on charts officially recognized by the coastal State.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Article7
> 
> Straight baselines
> _
> 1. In localities where the coastline is deeply indented and cut into, or if there is a fringe of islands along the coast in its immediate vicinity, the method of straight baselines joining appropriate points may be employed in drawing the baseline from which the breadth of the territorial sea is measured.
> 
> 2. Where because of the presence of a delta and other natural conditions the coastline is highly unstable, the appropriate points may be selected along the furthest seaward extent of the low-water line and, notwithstanding subsequent regression of the low-water line, the straight baselines shall remain effective until changed by the coastal State in accordance with this Convention.
> 
> 3. The drawing of straight baselines must not depart to any appreciable extent from the general direction of the coast, and the sea areas lying within the lines must be sufficiently closely linked to the land domain to be subject to the regime of internal waters.
> 
> 4. Straight baselines shall not be drawn to and from low-tide elevations, unless lighthouses or similar installations which are permanently above sea level have been built on them or except in instances where the drawing of baselines to and from such elevations has received general international recognition.
> 
> 5. Where the method of straight baselines is applicable under paragraph 1, account may be taken, in determining particular baselines, of economic interests peculiar to the region concerned, the reality and the importance of which are clearly evidenced by long usage.
> 
> 6. The system of straight baselines may not be applied by a State in such a manner as to cut off the territorial sea of another State from the high seas or an exclusive economic zone.



You china just know nothing about international laws and UNCLOS. You know nothing about what you signed. Next time remember to read what you are going to sign before signing it!

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## xunzi

zDragonFlyz said:


> 1. You have gone nowhere with your 'invisible historical sovereignty'.
> Now you are turning into International Laws? It's absolutely interesting, China is talking about International Laws! How ironic =))
> *You occupy it 100% does not mean that you have the legal right. We were owning those legally and you invaded us by force. Can you understand that simple thing? *
> Besides, the South Vietnam protested your invasion. The new Vietnam (SRVN) protested it too. So, your invasion is protested.
> Again, the North Vietnam has nothing to do with Paracel. They have no right with that. I have said before and I won't say it again. Just read.
> 
> 2.* We own them not only in 18th Century, but from that point to the modern time until you invaded us by force*. We protested it too and haven't quit claiming our sovereignty. If you invaded us in Ming or Qing dynasty time and stuffs, it's a different thing. But you invaded us in 1974, in the modern time when international laws are applied.
> 
> 3. You just know nothing about UNCLOS and stuffs. In short you have no idea about international laws. Even if we own Paracel now, we can't extends our EEZ from our islands, since we are not an Archipelago Nation.
> Your EEZ must extends only from your low-water line, understand?
> 
> Read this if you can read:
> 
> 
> You china just know nothing about international laws and UNCLOS. You know nothing about what you signed. Next time remember to read what you are going to sign before signing it!


1. Which country recognized that you owned it legally. Give me a list and their respective position on Paracel sovereignty prior to 1974s. 

South Vietnam regime no longer existed in Vietnam. In fact, they are exiled and have no international political recognition. It's fact that you need to accept that it's fait accompli. 

2. I said it before and I will say it again, anything prior to international agreement is sheep talk. It is all open and free to take because the whole South China Sea island chains are uninhabited. No in 1974s, there was no agreement on maritime territorial rights. You can cry all you want but the regime that owned half of Paracel no longer exist in international arena so it's a moot point to talk about ownership. We are still the same one and currently the owner of Paracel, completely 100%. No dispute.

3. Go read UNCLOS regarding EEZ. It does not matter whether a country is archipelago nation or not. EEZ will apply to any territory that can "sustain life on its own". Paracel fits this description. In 1998 agreement, we settle this with UNCLOS already and was given an EEZ. Stop wasting my time to argue whether Paracel has its own EEZ. If Haiwaii archipelego has an EEZ, then Parcel deserves to have one. That the end of the talk. I'm sorry, my friend. Our American friends are free to discuss this with us over legal term.


----------



## zDragonFlyz

@KirovAirship
Mr xunzi mainland chinese here is too narrow-minded and too righteous. I can't explain him by words. He just doesn't give a heck.



xunzi said:


> 1. Which country recognized that you owned it legally. Give me a list and their respective position on Paracel sovereignty prior to 1974s.
> 
> South Vietnam regime no longer existed in Vietnam. In fact, they are exiled and have no international political recognition. It's fact that you need to accept that it's fait accompli
> 
> 2. I said it before and I will say it again, anything prior to international agreement is sheep talk. It is all open and free to take because the whole South China Sea island chains are uninhabited. No in 1974s, there was no agreement on maritime territorial rights. You can cry all you want but the regime that owned half of Paracel no longer exist in international arena so it's a moot point to talk about ownership. We are still the same one and currently the owner of Paracel, completely 100%. No dispute.
> 
> 3. Go read UNCLOS regarding EEZ. It does not matter whether a country is archipelago nation or not. EEZ will apply to any territory that can "sustain life on its own". Paracel fits this description. In 1998 agreement, we settle this with UNCLOS already and was given an EEZ. Stop wasting my time to argue whether Paracel has its own EEZ. If Haiwaii archipelego has an EEZ, then Parcel deserves to have one. That the end of the talk. I'm sorry, my friend. Our American friends are free to discuss this with us over legal term.



1) Did any country recognize your sovereignty over Beijing yet? I guess no. Why? Did anyone challenge your sovereignty while you are administrating it? No. Did you take it from anyone else by force in the modern age? No. International Laws go that way, man.

Just read what I said before in this thread and you will know my points, proofs evidences. I'm not posting it again and again. I'm too tired. Even when I copy it here again, in the next page you or your countrymen will ask me this again. Come on.
By the way, if you are very willing to hear again from me, leave your email address here, I will send you my proofs and evidences, since I'm not allowed to post link yet so it will be very difficult to post.

The South Vietnam does not exist now, yes, just like your Qing dynasty. But there are successors, Provisional Revolutionary Government of the Republic of South Vietnam and Socialist Republic of Vietnam.
In fact, South Vietnam is largely recognized, since it was the US's allies.

2) So, you mean that International Laws are all sheep talk to China? It's not uninhabited, no people live there, but we did garrison there, from the 18th Century until when you invaded. And yes, in 1974 there were international laws that you can't invade others, especially when they did fought back, resisted and protest against your invasion.

3) *Since there was/is no civilian in Paracel when you signed UNCLOS (and until now), and it still need the supply from the mainland, it can not "sustain life on its own". There are Vietnamese civilian on Spratly Islands, but we have no EEZ in Spratly too, because we still need shipment to supply us.*

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Beast

Viet said:


> bla bla bla...as usual you use bullshit language. escort and so on. what is your solution for Vietnam now?
> I assume we shall surrender?
> 
> pls send more oil rigs and more warships to Vietnam. we enjoy it.



Good suggestion. A great country shall move with times and act according to situation. The problem with you all vietnamese is you all have not updated your mentality and still stay in the 70's and 80s thinking.. Vietnamese need to update their mentality and realise this is year 2014. China has grow into a juggernaut that can be only matched by US. China is no more the poor neighbour in the 80's that lives in the shadow of Soviet Union.

Why Russian decide to work with the China? And Why China decide to support the Russian despite some of our difficult times? Great country know how to adapt to times and know their strength. Blind nationalism and inflexibilities will only lead one country to death. Vietnam shall bid their time now and cede to China. That is the best solution. 




Viet said:


> one thing I can see in your bahavior is you like to lick the boots of the Russians despite they raped you and took a big chunk of your country. Do you have any dignity at all?
> 
> 
> money is just a part of the equation.
> 
> answer yourself this question: why do America and Japan support Vietnam in this conflict?



Does your repeated insult will suddenly make Vietnam become stronger. It does not change anything from the reality that Vietna, now do not have any chance against mighty China. We have more money, we have more military weapon. we are stronger and do not be naive and think Russian will stand on your side.

Are you now also attempt to lick the bum of US and Japan? And the worst is they will not come to your help but expect you to bear the damaged against China just to serve their interest. Didn't you realise Vietnam is just a poor weak pawn in the eyes of superpower games?  Poor vietnam.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Raphael

Viet said:


> bla bla bla...as usual you use bullshit language. escort and so on. what is your solution for Vietnam now?
> I assume we shall surrender?



FYI, you use a lot of "bullshit language" too, using a melodramatic term like "surrender" to simply describe putting an end to your absurd tantrum and acknowledging the reality on the ground. China is not a stupid kindergarten teacher, we know that when toddlers act up, yell and scream and throw things around, the worst thing the kindergarten teacher can do is to indulge the kid instead of teaching it to behave.



> pls send more oil rigs and more warships to Vietnam. we enjoy it.


Evidently you don't, otherwise you wouldn't be screaming in despair right now. Terrible liar, you are .



> one thing I can see in your bahavior is you like to lick the boots of the Russians despite they raped you and took a big chunk of your country. Do you have any dignity at all?



Are you projecting right now? You seem to forget that how quickly you've gone on your knees and begged for Uncle Sam, who, only a few decades, scalded your men with Agent Orange and made whores of your women. Like the behavior of a battered wife who always returns to her drunk, abusive husband. 

We have had our ups and downs with the Russia, but in the end, we can take a balanced view. We acknowledge that they liberated Manchuria from Japanese imperialism, and that they offered crucial assistance to us before the Sino-Soviet split. Compare this to your relationship with China, with whom you have your share of grievances, but who also provided the basis of your entire culture, and also offered crucial assistance during your war with the USA, without which you could *never *grind them down. But evidently, you can't take this balanced view - you would rather open your legs for the one predator who has always harmed you and burned your precious jungles down with chemical defoliants.

Chinese people can't stand people who don't know history. Because having no history is the foremost characteristic of a barbarian people. It is impossible to interact with these types. So study history first before you blabber on with your misplaced rage.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## 7freedom7

sweet


----------



## Viet

Rechoice said:


> no problem bro, is just putting in one thread. In chinese defence forum, we should be baned after some our post.


I went to chinese defence section one or two times, then I stopped.
it is so worthless to discuss with chinese clowns.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Erik Karlsson

Chinese are very curel and dishonest...

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Krueger

Colombo Gazette
May 10, 2014





*Sri Lanka supports Vietnam’s stance on demanding China adhere to the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea and withdraw its drilling rig HD-981 out of Viet Nam’s sovereignty and exclusive economic zone, the Vietnam Prime Minister’s office said.*

Sri Lanka’ PM D.M. Jayaratne made the statement at a reception given by PM Nguyen Tan Dung yesterday (May 9), regarding the East Sea issue.

He proposed dealing with the issue by peaceful measures on the basis of the international law.

The host leader affirmed that Viet Nam will do its utmost to work with Sri Lanka to make the two nations’ relations more efficient.

He welcomed Sri Lanka’s delegation led by PM D.M. Jayaratne to the United Nations Day of Vesak in Viet Nam and praised the country on its achievements over the past years.

He suggested the two nations support each other at multi-lateral forums, boost economic, trade and tourism cooperation, sign a bilateral agreement on trade and a cooperative plan between the two nations’ Ministries of Finance as well as set up a sub-committee on commerce.

The Vietnamese PM expects that Sri Lanka will create favorable conditions for Vietnamese businesses to launch long-term operation in its nation.

PM D.M. Jayaratne also confirmed that his country expects to cooperate with Viet Nam in crime prevention, realizing ethnic policies, science and technology. 
*
Lanka backs Vietnam over China | Colombo Gazette*

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## he-man

lol

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## chhota bheem

lol

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## kankan326

I think this is because Sri Lanka is in the same position in Indian Ocean when facing India as Vietnam in SCS. All countries are selfish. Fairness is not the first thing they'll take into account.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## SirHatesALot

Nice


----------



## danish_vij

kankan326 said:


> I think this is because Sri Lanka is in the same position in Indian Ocean when facing India as Vietnam in SCS. All countries are selfish. Fairness is not the first thing they'll take into account.


when was last time u saw India setting up an drilling rigg in sovereign Srilankan waters


----------



## Viet

that is nice. thank you Sri Lanka 



kankan326 said:


> I think this is because Sri Lanka is in the same position in Indian Ocean when facing India as Vietnam in SCS. All countries are selfish. Fairness is not the first thing they'll take into account.


I hope you remain fair and don´t resort to any retaliate steps towards Sri Lanka.


----------



## Skull and Bones

LOLwa


----------



## Beast

Another media spinning, the only thing SL PM say its resolving this issue by dialogue. He never say he back vietnam in this issue.



> Sri Lanka supports  Vietnam
> 
> ’s stance on demanding China adhere to the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea and withdraw its drilling rig HD-981 out of Viet Nam’s sovereignty and exclusive economic zone, *the Vietnam Prime Minister’s office said.*



How come Vietnam need to announce for SL PM? Why not SL PM say it himself?


----------



## sincity

Moral support? China don't even care US provide the moral support to Vietnam, what make Sri Lanka believe they in position to force China to change course and pull the oil rig off the SCS.


----------



## kankan326

danish_vij said:


> when was last time u saw India setting up an drilling rigg in sovereign Srilankan waters


Before you set up a rig. You have to find oil first. Don't be narrow minded. Oil is not the only reason that caused disputes.


----------



## sincity

China set up the oil rig to dare Vietnam to use military force to blow up the rig but Vietnam navy in no position to start a naval war against China without the help from other nation.


----------



## pigtaker

This country's stupidity is beyond imagination. It will see the consequence soon. Maybe eventually there is an independent Tamil country on this island.


----------



## Beast

pigtaker said:


> This country's stupidity is beyond imagination. It will see the consequence soon. Maybe eventually there is an independent Tamil country on this island.



Do not fall for troll trick. It's a mis report and spin by media. I never believe Sri Lankan will take stance in this issue.

The only thing say by SL PM is resolving this issue by dialogue.


----------



## kankan326

pigtaker said:


> This country's stupidity is beyond imagination. It will see the consequence soon. Maybe eventually there is an independent Tamil country on this island.


Without China's help, SL would never be able to eliminate Tamil Tiger. This is a very ungrateful move

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

Beast said:


> Another media spinning, the only thing SL PM say its resolving this issue by dialogue. He never say he back vietnam in this issue.
> 
> How come Vietnam need to announce for SL PM? Why not SL PM say it himself?


I have no clue 
but the media of SL does not object the report, so that must be true.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Beast

Viet said:


> I have no clue
> but the media does not object the report, so that must be true.



Even Japan and US do not openly back Vietnam in this issue. The most they raised is concern about it. SL PM I doubt will commit such suicide.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

Beast said:


> Do not fall for troll trick. It's a mis report and spin by media. I never believe Sri Lankan will take stance in this issue.
> 
> The only thing say by SL PM is resolving this issue by dialogue.


No, read again, he says
"
Sri Lanka supports Vietnam’s stance on demanding China adhere to the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea and withdraw its drilling rig HD-981 out of Viet Nam’s sovereignty and exclusive economic zone, the Vietnam Prime Minister’s office said.

Sri Lanka’ PM D.M. Jayaratne made the statement at a reception given by PM Nguyen Tan Dung yesterday (May 9), regarding the East Sea issue."

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## chhota bheem

kankan326 said:


> Without China's help, SL would never be able to eliminate Tamil Tiger. This is a very ungrateful move


SL has alredy eliminated LTTE.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## pigtaker

kankan326 said:


> Without China's help, SL would never be able to eliminate Tamil Tiger. This is a very ungrateful move


That is why I call it stupid beyond imagination. Let it bullied by India, and sanctioned by Western nation. Then it will learn the lesson. For those countries, you need stick and carrot working together.


----------



## Viet

Beast said:


> Even Japan and US do not openly back Vietnam in this issue. The most they raised is concern about it. SL PM I doubt will commit such suicide.


you are wrong.
America and Japan back Vietnam.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## +4vsgorillas-Apebane

Sri Lanka is a friend of China. Even if they believe Vietnam is in the right, the smart move would be to keep quiet and stay behind the scenes. This is most unusual and disappointing.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Europa

Krueger said:


> Colombo Gazette
> May 10, 2014
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Sri Lanka supports Vietnam’s stance on demanding China adhere to the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea and withdraw its drilling rig HD-981 out of Viet Nam’s sovereignty and exclusive economic zone, the Vietnam Prime Minister’s office said.*
> 
> Sri Lanka’ PM D.M. Jayaratne made the statement at a reception given by PM Nguyen Tan Dung yesterday (May 9), regarding the East Sea issue.
> 
> He proposed dealing with the issue by peaceful measures on the basis of the international law.
> 
> The host leader affirmed that Viet Nam will do its utmost to work with Sri Lanka to make the two nations’ relations more efficient.
> 
> He welcomed Sri Lanka’s delegation led by PM D.M. Jayaratne to the United Nations Day of Vesak in Viet Nam and praised the country on its achievements over the past years.
> 
> He suggested the two nations support each other at multi-lateral forums, boost economic, trade and tourism cooperation, sign a bilateral agreement on trade and a cooperative plan between the two nations’ Ministries of Finance as well as set up a sub-committee on commerce.
> 
> The Vietnamese PM expects that Sri Lanka will create favorable conditions for Vietnamese businesses to launch long-term operation in its nation.
> 
> PM D.M. Jayaratne also confirmed that his country expects to cooperate with Viet Nam in crime prevention, realizing ethnic policies, science and technology.
> *Lanka backs Vietnam over China | Colombo Gazette*




mysterious slip of tongue may be,


from Colombo Gazette,

* May 10, 2014*


The Ministry of External Affairs today attempted to play down comments reportedly made by Prime Minister D.M Jayaratne on the South China Sea dispute between China and Vietnam.

The Vietnam Prime Minister’s office had yesterday quoted Prime Minister D.M Jayaratne as saying that Sri Lanka supports Vietnam’s stance on demanding China adhere to the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea and withdraw its drilling rig HD-981 out of Vietnam’s sovereignty and exclusive economic zone.

However the Sri Lankan External Affairs Ministry says Sri Lanka’s position has been that the disputes concerning the South China Sea need to be settled bilaterally through negotiations by the concerned parties.

“This has been Sri Lanka’s consistent position on the said issue,” the External Affairs Ministry said.

Jayaratne had reportedly made the controversial comments at a reception given by Vietnam Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung yesterday. *(Colombo Gazette)*

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## sincity

Sri Lanka didn't demand China to adhere to the UN Convention but support Vietnam P.M demand China to adhere to the UN convention. Different from Sri Lanka P.M issue the statement to demand China adhere from the UN convention. Sri Lanka PM only support Vietnam P.M made those statement.


----------



## +4vsgorillas-Apebane

pigtaker said:


> That is why I call it stupid beyond imagination. Let it bullied by India, and sanctioned by Western nation. Then it will learn the lesson. For those countries, you need stick and carrot working together.



Let more information come out first and dont be so quick to turn on Sri Lanka. There has to be more to this story. China helped in destroying the Tamil Tigers while blocking UN intervention and inquiries. I dont think that Sri Lanka will be a turncoat.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## pigtaker

chhota bheem said:


> SL has alredy eliminated LTTE.


we can help them eliminated, we can also rekindle it. India's Tamil Nadu are happy to cooperate


----------



## Viet

sincity said:


> China set up the oil rig to dare Vietnam to use military force to blow up the rig but Vietnam navy in no position to start a naval war against China without the help from other nation.


why should we fall into Chinese trap by starting a war?

China plans to withdraw the rig in August. so we just continue to harass the Chinese everyday.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Beast

Europa said:


> mysterious slip of tongue may be,
> 
> 
> from Colombo Gazette,
> 
> * May 10, 2014*
> 
> 
> The Ministry of External Affairs today attempted to play down comments reportedly made by Prime Minister D.M Jayaratne on the South China Sea dispute between China and Vietnam.
> 
> The Vietnam Prime Minister’s office had yesterday quoted Prime Minister D.M Jayaratne as saying that Sri Lanka supports Vietnam’s stance on demanding China adhere to the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea and withdraw its drilling rig HD-981 out of Vietnam’s sovereignty and exclusive economic zone.
> 
> However the Sri Lankan External Affairs Ministry says Sri Lanka’s position has been that the disputes concerning the South China Sea need to be settled bilaterally through negotiations by the concerned parties.
> 
> “This has been Sri Lanka’s consistent position on the said issue,” the External Affairs Ministry said.
> 
> Jayaratne had reportedly made the controversial comments at a reception given by Vietnam Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung yesterday. *(Colombo Gazette)*



Precisely my point, from the moment I see how previous way they phase the sentence originally. I have already found it fishy...
Why would vietnam PM need to announce the sentence instead of SL PM himself? I believe Vietnam PM is playing a trick on SL PM. Shame on Vietnam PM for misquoting his sentence and twist to suit his own agenda.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## sincity

Viet said:


> why should we fall into Chinese trap by starting a war?
> 
> China plans to withdraw the rig in August. We will contiue to harass the Chinese everyday.


 


I thought Vietnam is the top dog, why don't Vietnam show the world Vietnam naval power and blow up the rig and dare China to start a naval war with Vietnam.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Beast

pigtaker said:


> we can help them eliminated, we can also rekindle it. India's Tamil Nadu are happy to cooperate


 Stop talkin nonsense. US propangada at work and trying to create mistrust. Everything clears up!



Viet said:


> you are wrong.
> America and Japan back Vietnam.



They back by what? Send ship to drive China rig out? Or just talking?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## +4vsgorillas-Apebane

pigtaker said:


> we can help them eliminated, we can also rekindle it. India's Tamil Nadu are happy to cooperate



You are too hot blooded. Tame yourself and don't embarrass us Chinese.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Beast

Viet said:


> why should we fall into Chinese trap by starting a war?
> 
> China plans to withdraw the rig in August. so we just continue to harass the Chinese everyday.



 Self delusion. Aren't you afraid to face the reality of your previous bragging?


----------



## +4vsgorillas-Apebane

Viet is actually the only reasonable Vietnamese poster on PDF. This thread is based on false information. 
Desperation? 
Despair?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Beast

The American media is on full gear anti-China. They will use whatever means to influence others to misquote and misled whatever anti-China.

The only thing they stop of doing is action  Just like how Georgia and Ukraine suffer under US delusion.


----------



## Viet

sincity said:


> Sri Lanka didn't demand China to adhere to the UN Convention but support Vietnam P.M demand China to adhere to the UN convention. Different from Sri Lanka P.M issue the statement to demand China adhere from the UN convention. Sri Lanka PM only support Vietnam P.M made those statement.


ha ha ha...are you sure?

VN seeks strong Sri Lanka ties - Politics & Laws | Politics, Business, Economy, Society, Life, Sports - VietNam News - VietNam News


----------



## sword1947

By which way？Weapon? Money? send their boys to fight with Chinese and die for Vietnam? Do you think all Yankees are nut and commanded by Vietnam? Does Vietnam got something that Yankees are eager for?


----------



## Raphael

This is pure media spin coming from the VN PM's office. In reality, the SL government doesn't take sides and wants the dispute solved bilaterally:

Sri Lanka's standpoint expressed on Southern China Sea crisis



> The attention of the Ministry of External Affairs has been drawn to comments in the international media on Sri Lanka’s position regarding the disputed South China Sea.
> 
> *It is reiterated that the disputes concerning the South China Sea need to be settled bilaterally through negotiations by the concerned parties.*
> 
> Ministry of External Affairs said this has been Sri Lanka’s consistent position on the said issue.
> 
> However, the Vietnam Prime Minister's office said Sri Lanka supports Vietnam's standpoint on East Sea.
> 
> Vietnam Prime Minister's office made this statement during a discussion with Sri Lankan Prime Minister D.M. Jayaratne, who is currently on a visit to Vietnam.


Sri Lanka : Sri Lanka neutral on disputes in South China SeaSri Lanka : Sri Lanka neutral on disputes in South China Sea



> May 10, Colombo: Sri Lanka today responded to the comments made in the international media regarding the position of Sri Lanka on the South China Sea dispute.
> 
> Issuing a statement the Ministry of External Affairs said today that its attention has been drawn to comments in the international media on Sri Lanka's position regarding the disputed South China Sea.
> 
> *The Ministry reiterated that the disputes concerning the South China Sea need to be settled bilaterally through negotiations by the concerned parties.*
> 
> "This has been Sri Lanka's consistent position on the said issue," the Ministry statement said.
> 
> However, the Vietnam Prime Minister's office Friday said Sri Lanka supports Vietnam's standpoint on East Sea.
> 
> "Sri Lanka supports Viet Nam's stance on demanding China adhere to the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea and withdraw its drilling rig HD-981 out of Viet Nam's sovereignty and exclusive economic zone," Vietnam Prime Minister's office said quoting the Sri Lankan Prime Minister D.M. Jayaratne, who is currently on a visit to that country.



GoSL reiterates its position on the disputed South China Sea | Asian Tribune



> Sri Lanka reiterated positions by emphasizing that disputes concerning the South China Sea need to be settled bilaterally through negotiations by the concerned parties.
> 
> Sri Lanka’s Ministry of External Affairs in a press release stated that it’s has been drawn to comments in the international media on Sri Lanka’s position regarding the disputed South China Sea.
> 
> Ministry of External Affairs when stating about its consistent position on the said issue revealed, *“It is reiterated that the disputes concerning the South China Sea need to be settled bilaterally through negotiations by the concerned parties.”*


MEA plays down DM’s comments | Colombo Gazette



> The Ministry of External Affairs today attempted to play down comments reportedly made by Prime Minister D.M Jayaratne on the South China Sea dispute between China and Vietnam.
> The Vietnam Prime Minister’s office had yesterday quoted Prime Minister D.M Jayaratne as saying that Sri Lanka supports Vietnam’s stance on demanding China adhere to the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea and withdraw its drilling rig HD-981 out of Vietnam’s sovereignty and exclusive economic zone.
> 
> *However the Sri Lankan External Affairs Ministry says Sri Lanka’s position has been that the disputes concerning the South China Sea need to be settled bilaterally through negotiations by the concerned parties.*
> 
> “This has been Sri Lanka’s consistent position on the said issue,” the External Affairs Ministry said.
> 
> Jayaratne had reportedly made the controversial comments at a reception given by Vietnam Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung yesterday.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Beast

Viet said:


> ha ha ha...are you sure?
> 
> VN seeks strong Sri Lanka ties - Politics & Laws | Politics, Business, Economy, Society, Life, Sports - VietNam News - VietNam News


 Vietnam news? What do you expect to report?


----------



## Viet

sincity said:


> I thought Vietnam is the top dog, why don't Vietnam show the world Vietnam naval power and blow up the rig and dare China to start a naval war with Vietnam.


ok, but first of all you give us a fleet of nuclear subs and a squadron of F-35.



Beast said:


> Vietnam news? What do you expect to report?


we just quoted of what the Sri Lanka PM said


----------



## Raphael

The real question now is how to deal with Vietnam's disruptive behaviour? Vietnam's PM just tried to defame Sri Lanka, by misrepresenting its diplomatic position, in order to derail its foreign policy. Any trust they once had is now down the toilet. China is well aware of and used to Vietnam's extreme treachery - throughout history, this is the defining quality of their people. But Sri Lankans are probably shocked by it. I hope Vietnam can offer a sincere apology *immediately*. They are already becoming a pariah state - they can't have Sri Lanka abandon them as well.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Beast

Viet said:


> ok, but first of all you give us a fleet of nuclear subs and a squadron of F-35.
> 
> 
> we just quoted of what the Sri Lanka PM said



No, he never say that but your Vietnam PM make use of him and tell lies... See the previous post. 

Using some vietnam news to prove your point is just like saying Iraq has WMD and needed to be invaded 

GoSL reiterates its position on the disputed South China Sea | Asian Tribune


----------



## Viet

+4vsgorillas-Apebane said:


> Viet is actually the only reasonable Vietnamese poster on PDF. This thread is based on false information.
> Desperation?
> Despair?


the SL report on the website is still there.
why don´t they take it down if wrong? 

Lanka backs Vietnam over China | Colombo Gazette


----------



## Beast

Viet said:


> the SL report on the website is still there.
> why don´t they take it down if wrong?
> 
> Lanka backs Vietnam over China | Colombo Gazette



Sure!  Remember this news is latter than you viet dream misquote.

MEA plays down DM’s comments | Colombo Gazette

Vietnamese is too naive.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

Beast said:


> No, he never say that but your Vietnam PM make use of him and tell lies... See the previous post.
> 
> Using some vietnam news to prove your point is just like saying Iraq has WMD and needed to be invaded
> 
> GoSL reiterates its position on the disputed South China Sea | Asian Tribune


that comes from Sri Lanka’s Ministry of External Affairs.
can you quote from the Prime Minister office?


----------



## Raphael

Viet said:


> the SL report on the website is still there.
> why don´t they take it down if wrong?
> 
> Lanka backs Vietnam over China | Colombo Gazette



The same website, Colombo Gazette, issued a rebuttal:
colombogazette.com/2014/05/10/mea-plays-down-dm-comments/

I feel sorry for you - you've never been this delusional and alienated from reality before. I remember in the past when I went to the zoo and saw a monkey grab at a banana, only to find out it was only a tree branch - this memory has come flooding back to me for some reason.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## +4vsgorillas-Apebane

Viet said:


> the SL report on the website is still there.
> why don´t they take it down if wrong?
> 
> Lanka backs Vietnam over China | Colombo Gazette



A single media source? While the Government ministries repeatedly reiterates that they remain neutral?

I though you better than this. This is bordering on Indian troll sloppiness.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Ayush

great


----------



## Beast

Ayush said:


> great



Great that Sri Lankan stay neutral. I am happy you agree with me

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## +4vsgorillas-Apebane

Ayush said:


> great



High five!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

Raphael said:


> The real question now is how to deal with Vietnam's disruptive behaviour? Vietnam's PM just tried to defame Sri Lanka, by misrepresenting its diplomatic position, in order to derail its foreign policy. Any trust they once had is now down the toilet. China is well aware of and used to Vietnam's extreme treachery - throughout history, this is the defining quality of their people. But Sri Lankans are probably shocked by it. I hope Vietnam can offer a sincere apology *immediately*. They are already becoming a pariah state - they can't have Sri Lanka abandon them as well.


don´t bullshit.

can you proof that SL Prime Minister never said this to our government?

has SL government denied that the PM never said the statement?


----------



## Rahul9090

if true then well done lanka let us all unite against the chinese


----------



## Beast

Viet said:


> don´t bullshit.
> 
> can you proof that SL Prime Minister never say this to our government?



This question is back to you. Its your Vietnam PM who says all that. Read the first post again. Sri Lankan PM never says that. He only says resolve all this thru peaceful dialogue.



Rahul9090 said:


> if true then well done lanka let us all unite against the chinese



Sorry, you got the wrong news. Latest new is Sri Lankan denied such statement from their PM. They stay neutral. 
Sri Lankan still needs Chinese help to fight the tamil nadu and hindu invasion

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## illusion8

There's a spanking on the way .


----------



## Viet

pigtaker said:


> That is why I call it stupid beyond imagination. Let it bullied by India, and sanctioned by Western nation. Then it will learn the lesson. For those countries, you need stick and carrot working together.


you want to use India to bully SL?
I am afraid you are delusional.



Beast said:


> The American media is on full gear anti-China. They will use whatever means to influence others to misquote and misled whatever anti-China.
> 
> The only thing they stop of doing is action  Just like how Georgia and Ukraine suffer under US delusion.


you can learn some propaganda tricks from your small brother Vietnam


----------



## Beast

MEA plays down DM’s comments | Colombo Gazette



> The Ministry of External Affairs today attempted to play down comments reportedly made by Prime Minister D.M Jayaratne on the South China Sea dispute between China and  Vietnam
> 
> .
> 
> The Vietnam Prime Minister’s office had yesterday quoted Prime Minister D.M Jayaratne as saying that  by Sri Lanka
> 
> supports Vietnam’s stance on demanding China adhere to the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea and withdraw its drilling rig HD-981 out of Vietnam’s sovereignty and exclusive economic zone.
> 
> *However the Sri Lankan External Affairs Ministry says Sri Lanka’s position has been that the disputes concerning the South China
> 
> Sea need to be settled bilaterally through negotiations by the concerned parties.*
> 
> “This has been Sri Lanka’s consistent position on the said issue,” the External Affairs Ministry said.
> 
> Jayaratne had reportedly made the controversial comments at a reception given by Vietnam Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung yesterday. *(Colombo Gazette)*

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Gibbs

Just a stupid comment by a senile geriatric fool they call the PM.. I'm sure he did actually say that

This idiot is not taken seriously even in SL.. This if not the stance of the govt of SL nor it's people as the official retractions by the official lines show.. Both China and Vietnam are steadfast friends of SL and have had bilateral relations going on for thousands of years

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Beast

Viet said:


> you want to use India to bully SL?
> I am afraid you are delusional.
> 
> 
> you can learn some propaganda tricks from your small brother Vietnam



No, that is only a stupid move that will make fool of yourself.

Why not you quote vietnam news and brag about saying Putin personally back Vietnam in SCS dispute over China? You like to lie, why not make it bigger of yourself as fool.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Raphael

Gibbs said:


> Just a stupid comment by a senile geriatric fool they call the PM.. I'm sure he did actually say that
> 
> This idiot is not taken seriously even in SL.. This if not the stance of the govt of SL nor it's people as the official retractions by the official lines show.. Both China and Vietnam are steadfast friends of SL and have had bilateral relations going on for thousands of years



Exactly. I don't understand why our Viet friends can't appreciate SL's neutrality. Their pushy expectations are putting their ostensible friends in a difficult position.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Pangu

*Sri Lanka neutral on disputes in South China Sea *

Sat, May 10, 2014, 11:27 am SL Time, ColomboPage News Desk, Sri Lanka. 


May 10, Colombo: Sri Lanka today responded to the comments made in the international media regarding the position of Sri Lanka on the South China Sea dispute.

Issuing a statement the Ministry of External Affairs said today that its attention has been drawn to comments in the international media on Sri Lanka's position regarding the disputed South China Sea.

The Ministry reiterated that the disputes concerning the South China Sea need to be settled bilaterally through negotiations by the concerned parties.

"This has been Sri Lanka's consistent position on the said issue," the Ministry statement said.

However, the Vietnam Prime Minister's office Friday said Sri Lanka supports Vietnam's standpoint on East Sea.

"Sri Lanka supports Viet Nam's stance on demanding China adhere to the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea and withdraw its drilling rig HD-981 out of Viet Nam's sovereignty and exclusive economic zone," Vietnam Prime Minister's office said quoting the Sri Lankan Prime Minister D.M. Jayaratne, who is currently on a visit to that country. 

Sri Lanka : Sri Lanka neutral on disputes in South China Sea


----------



## Gibbs

Raphael said:


> Exactly. I don't understand why our Viet friends can't appreciate SL's neutrality. Their pushy expectations are putting their ostensible friends in a difficult position.



To be fair.. In all honesty he would have actually state that.. But the 80+ year old senile fool is well known to shoot his own leg.. Sadly this is the caliber of some of the politicians they have.. Now the authorities will have to run around like headless chickens to clarify things..Thats how they run the banana republic of Sri Lanka

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Beast

Raphael said:


> Exactly. I don't understand why our Viet friends can't appreciate SL's neutrality. Their pushy expectations are putting their ostensible friends in a difficult position.


 Now everybody knows VIetnam is some underhand country who misplace or misuse other countries just to serve its own purpose by misquoting. Shameless country. Nobody will trust them.



Gibbs said:


> To be fair.. In all honesty he would have actually state that.. But the 80+ year old senile fool is well known to shoot his own leg.. Sadly this is the caliber of some of the politicians they have.. Now the authorities will have to run around like headless chickens to clarify things..Thats how they run the banana republic of Sri Lanka



Not his fault. Its the evil Vietnam PM who backstab his trust by misquoting his words.


----------



## GR!FF!N

LOL...






anyway,read this.......................

*ASEAN calls on China to speed up maritime security talks*

NAYPYITAW - Southeast Asian foreign ministers voiced "serious concerns" on Saturday over naval clashes between Vietnam and China as the regional group's top official urged Beijing to step up efforts to advance talks on maritime security.

Foreign ministers and heads of state of the 10-member Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) are facing a test of unity at their summit this weekend as some members express alarm over China's growing assertiveness in the disputed South China Sea and push for a strong joint statement.

Tensions ratcheted up in the past week after China positioned a huge oil rig in an area also claimed by Vietnam, with each country accusing the other of ramming its ships in the region close to the disputed Paracel Islands.

ASEAN Secretary General Le Luong Minh, who is Vietnamese, told Reuters the incident added urgency to concluding talks between ASEAN and China on agreeing a code of conduct in the resource-rich sea - a set of maritime rules to ease tensions.

But he pointedly said China's efforts to conclude the talks had fallen short of ASEAN's. Despite holding three rounds of talks since last year, the discussions had yet to focus on "substantive issues," he said.

"We need efforts on both sides," he said in an interview on the sidelines of the summit in Myanmar's capital, Naypyitaw.

"On ASEAN, we have made great efforts. We need efforts on the part of China."

Tensions over the sea, which is claimed in part by four ASEAN members as well as China and Taiwan, have strained the group's unity in recent years, resulting in an embarrassing breakdown of a summit in Cambodia in 2012.

In their statement, ASEAN foreign ministers on Saturday called for "an early conclusion" of the code of conduct and expressed concern about "increased tensions in the area".

At the summit, which ends on Sunday, countries including Vietnam and the Philippines are pushing for a strong statement, while others - mindful of China's economic weight - are reluctant to directly criticise Beijing, diplomats say.

Myanmar, which is chairing ASEAN for the first time this year, signalled a softer approach to China.

Myanmar's government spokesman, Ye Ht, said ASEAN and China have a "very good relationship" and both recognize China's continued growth as a political and economic power should not be marred by conflict with its neighbours.

"China is not only big friends with Myanmar, but China is also the biggest trade partner with most of the ASEAN countries," he told reporters in Naypyitaw. "So China's peaceful rising is very important for the ASEAN region."

*Territorial claims*

Both Vietnam and staunch US ally the Philippines have insisted the South China Sea be discussed at the summit.

Philippine diplomats told Reuters some member states were opposed to issuing a separate statement on the latest South China Sea dispute or mentioning the tensions in the final communiqué due to be released on Sunday.

China says territorial disputes should be discussed on a bilateral basis. It claims the entire South China Sea, putting it in conflict with Taiwan, Vietnam, the Philippines, Malaysia, and Brunei. The last four are ASEAN members.

Speaking to reporters in Manila, Philippine President Benigno Aquino III rejected calls from China for bilateral talks to resolve territorial issues and said dialogue will not resolve the issues that are also affecting other regional countries.

Tensions spiked in another part of the South China Sea over the past week when Beijing demanded the Philippines release a Chinese fishing boat and its crew seized on Tuesday off Half Moon Shoal (Hasa-Hasa Shoal) in the Spratly Islands, which both countries claim.

ASEAN calls on China to speed up maritime security talks | News | GMA News Online


----------



## manojb

next Bangladesh !!




http://data:image/jpeg;base64,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


----------



## Gibbs

Beast said:


> Not his fault. Its the evil Vietnam PM who backstab his trust by misquoting his words.



Would they intentionally misquote something that would be diplomatic disaster?? Highly unlikely bro.. Whats more likely is this idiot would have actually stated that

But then again glad that the official stance of SL is now being iterated.. Both Vietnam and China have been steadfast allies against imperialism and seperatism


----------



## Beast

Gibbs said:


> Would they intentionally misquote something that would be diplomatic disaster.. Highly unlikely bro.. Whats more likely is this idiot would have actually stated that
> 
> But then again glad that the official stance of SL is now being iterated.. Both Vietnam and China have been steadfast allies against imperialism and seperatism


Indeed its a diplomat disaster. The viet is desperate and will resort to do any underhand method. Vietnamese are cunning and arrogant. Do you think they really care about Sri Lankan friendship?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

Gibbs said:


> Would they intentionally misquote something that would be diplomatic disaster??* Highly unlikely bro.. Whats more likely is this idiot would have actually stated that*
> 
> But then again glad that the official stance of SL is now being iterated.. Both Vietnam and China have been steadfast allies against imperialism and seperatism


are you from SL?

Correct. Until now, the SL government has not accused Vietnam of misquoting.


----------



## Raphael

Gibbs said:


> To be fair.. In all honesty he would have actually state that.. But the 80+ year old senile fool is well known to shoot his own leg.. Sadly this is the caliber of some of the politicians they have.. Now the authorities will have to run around like headless chickens to clarify things..Thats how they run the banana republic of Sri Lanka



Don't be so critical of yourself. Sri Lanka has just emerged out of civil war, put down a decades-long terrorist insurgency masterminded by a certain unscrupulous regional power, and is now the most developed country in South Asia. Things are looking up. If it's still a banana republic, it won't be for much longer .

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Gibbs

Beast said:


> Indeed its a diplomat disaster. The viet is desperate and will resort to do any underhand method. Vietnamese are cunning and arrogant. Do you think they really care about Sri Lankan friendship?



We value both China's and Vietnam's relationship with SL.. It will be a shame to loose either as an ally



Raphael said:


> Don't be so critical of yourself. Sri Lanka has just emerged out of civil war, put down a decades-long terrorist insurgency masterminded by a certain unscrupulous regional power, and is now the most developed country in South Asia. Things are looking up. If it's still a banana republic, it won't be for much longer .



Politically it is a banana republic mate.. And sadly it seems to be getting worse not better



Viet said:


> are you from SL?
> 
> Correct. Until now, the SL government has not accused Vietnam of misquoting.



Thats exactly what i said..

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## itaskol

ok

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

Beast said:


> Indeed its a diplomat disaster. The viet is desperate and will resort to do any underhand method. Vietnamese are cunning and arrogant. Do you think they really care about Sri Lankan friendship?


don´t judge too quick.

has the SL government accused Vietnam of misquoting?


----------



## Beast

Viet said:


> don´t judge too quick.
> 
> has the SL government accused Vietnam of misquoting?



You want them to say it out so clearly? 

You are consider one of the customer for Sri Lankan too but a smaller one.


----------



## Viet

Beast said:


> You want them to say it out so clearly?
> 
> You are consider one of the customer for Sri Lankan too but a smaller one.


I agree with you: VN is small, CN is big.

so will you take back all of your accusations against Vietnam?


----------



## Beast

Viet said:


> I agree with you: VN is small, CN is big.
> 
> so will you take back all of your accusations against Vietnam?



What accusation? Say it clear.


----------



## Viet

Beast said:


> What accusation? Say it clear.


just review one of your posts here in this thread, for example #64.


----------



## Beast

Viet said:


> just review one of your posts here in this thread, for example #64.


That's a true fact. Why shall I take back my words?  If not so, why would Sri Lanka foreign affair needs to release another statement that U-turn from previous report? A sane person with decent IQ will know Sri Lanka minister will never make such stupid statement. They still remember China backing Sri Lanka during UN genocide accusation. And the statement about Sri Lanka backing Vietnam was announced by Vietnam PM himself not Sri Lanka official themselves.


----------



## Viet

Beast said:


> That's a true fact. Why shall I take back my words?  If not so, why would Sri Lanka foreign affair needs to release another statement that U-turn from previous report? A sane person with decent IQ will know Sri Lanka minister will never make such stupid statement. They still remember China backing Sri Lanka during UN genocide accusation. And the statement about Sri Lanka backing Vietnam was announced by Vietnam PM himself not Sri Lanka official themselves.


ha ha ha...loser!

I am pretty sure we have evidence. any high level talks are translated and recorded by both parties, as usual.


----------



## Beast

Viet said:


> ha ha ha...loser!
> 
> I am pretty sure we have evidence. any high level talks are translated and recorded by both parties, as usual.



Great! Please show your proof before you reply again.


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

Let our friend Sri Lanka neutral position. Dont make them into difficult position.
I bet that if a similar case happen with Sri Lanka, Ha Noi will say: "We VN hope the two countries resolve the conflict by peaceful means on basis of the international laws" or same things.

If our government wishes someone "support","back" VN...,firstly they must stop calling communist china as "good friend", "good neighbour", "good comrade" "good partner" bullshit. then quit the policy of "no alliance" to joint an alliance with the Philippines, Japan, US...who have common interests.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## itaskol

Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> firstly they must stop calling communist china as "good friend", "good neighbour", "good comrade" "good partner" bullshit.



And Chinese goverment should do the same. Stop calling vietnam as "good friend", "good neighbour", "good comrade" "good partner" bullshit. We all feel disgusting about it


----------



## Raphael

Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> If our government wishes someone "support","back" VN...,firstly they must stop calling communist china as "good friend", "good neighbour", "good comrade" "good partner" bullshit. then quit the policy of "no alliance" to joint an alliance with the Philippines, Japan, US...who have common interests.



I hope to see this VN-PH alliance . The world can call it the "dream team"!


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

Raphael said:


> I hope to see this VN-PH alliance . The world can call it the "dream team"!


US- Japan-PH alliance is forming. Maybe VN will join to. Who know?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Speeder 2

Viet said:


> ...
> money is just a part of the equation.
> 
> answer yourself this question: why do America and Japan support Vietnam in this conflict?



errr...perhaps because they need a dumb free cannon folder, Eienstein?

Gee, I once thought that Vietnamese avg IQ is about 95, was I wrong?



Rechoice said:


> You are stupid and idiot . There is part of full Vietnam's map, its stated clearly in Chinese character that Hoang Sa (Paracel in English, 黃沙 translated in to Chinese ) and Van Ly Truong Sa ( Spratly in English, 萬里 長沙 translated in to Chinese) is part of Vietnam territory in old map of Vietnam..
> 
> When you can't understand Chinese, shut up !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, genius. but didn't you realise that the both the characters and pronunciations you presented in your own ancient map to supposely prove your cause is in fact the standard Chinese?
> 
> Here is is full map of Vietnam





Erik Karlsson said:


> Chinese are very curel and dishonest...



So if that is true, then I suppose that when the Chinese catch you one day they would live-skin you like a dog first before making a universally accepted excuse about it?


----------



## Speeder 2

Rechoice said:


> Demonstration in Ho Chi Ming city protest against China.




How cute! The men and the women there are still wearing Bruce Lee-style sun glasses.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

Speeder 2 said:


> So if that is true, then I suppose that when the Chinese catch you one day they would live-skin you like a dog first before making a universally accepted excuse about it?



I suppose that Japan with US help will catch you one day they would enslaving you chinese live-skin you like a dog first before making a universally accepted excuse about it?


Speeder 2 said:


> How cute! The men and the women there are still wearing Bruce Lee-style sun glasses.



how can you say it ? or lie, many type of glasses exist in the world . Hongkong people protested against mainland China too.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

itaskol said:


> And Chinese goverment should do the same. Stop calling vietnam as "good friend", "good neighbour", "good comrade" "good partner" bullshit. We all feel disgusting about it



China said it from long time. so chinese are liar.


----------



## Globenim

LOL

Desperate Vietcong beg Sri Lanka for help just like they beg anyone and got the shaft.

Now the have to resort to misquotes (on purpose) to create this delusion of a united front of "allies against China" that never agreed. Barking, provoking and whining. Thats all they do all day.

But fake news is a well received source of pride and fodder for their inferioritycomplex, for some certain nations in our neighborhood. They just love to take stupid Vietnamese propaganda for real.


----------



## ViXuyen

Considering Taiping island is 2000 km away from Taiwan, Vietnam should take preemptive surprise strike at this island to take back what belongs to us. Our Son Ca island is a new nautical miles away from Taiping so we can send our special forces (who can easily swim 20 km) to land on Taiping for the operation while we pound Taiping with our EXTRA rocket. Our Flankers and the Su-22 would have complete air dominance over this island so there is little hope that Taiwan can do anything. Once we take back Taiping, we will put our SAMs on it to fortify our position. I'm all for advocating a military strike on Taiwan to take back our dao Thai Binh that the Chinese stole from us.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Azizam

Take it easy guys. 

Probably the old bugger has no idea what he just said. PM is not a post that is taken seriously in SL. He was just appointed for being an old member of the party unfortunately. Both China and Vietnam are friendly towards Sri Lanka and Sri Lanka doesn't intend to take sides here.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## bolo

Viet said:


> you are wrong.
> America and Japan back Vietnam.


Lip service and spiritual support.


----------



## bolo

Gibbs said:


> Would they intentionally misquote something that would be diplomatic disaster?? Highly unlikely bro.. Whats more likely is this idiot would have actually stated that
> 
> But then again glad that the official stance of SL is now being iterated.. Both Vietnam and China have been steadfast allies against imperialism and seperatism


SL does not have the same history dealing with these backstabbing like China does. you will see this pattern developing as you deal with them more


----------



## HeinzG

kankan326 said:


> Without China's help, SL would never be able to eliminate Tamil Tiger. This is a very ungrateful move



Don't buy it too hard. Sri Lanka has to save both faces. China is Sri Lanka's friend and so does Vietnam to certain extent. I do not think our leaders are foolish enough to meddle with Sino-Vietnamese affairs.



+4vsgorillas-Apebane said:


> Sri Lanka is a friend of China. Even if they believe Vietnam is in the right, the smart move would be to keep quiet and stay behind the scenes. This is most unusual and disappointing.



For once I believe our leaders aren't foolish and realized that this statement has been given by our dear P.M. 

In Sri Lanka he has become a joker for what he says and do. Now he has gone to another level to defame his country.



Viet said:


> that comes from Sri Lanka’s Ministry of External Affairs.
> can you quote from the Prime Minister office?



Don't take our PM's words too seriously he is a village idiot.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## GCTom

Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> US- Japan-PH alliance is forming. Maybe VN will join to. Who know?



Vietnam is already part of the American's Asia Pivot. The same years the American started the Asia Pivot, _coincidentally _ Japan, Vietnam and Philippine all started up these dispute problem. If Vietnam and Philippine think they can get an upper hand on China because they are a pawn in American's Asia Pivot, they need to think again. If China is to be responsible and credible to itself and its people then it must stand strong and be resolve against Vietnam and Philippine scheme. Vietnam and Philippine might be winning their little PR campaign because of the western media's bias, but China will not back down and will win.

For Japan, the dispute Diaoyu islands was in total control by it and China didn't mine leaving it that way for future generations to solve. However Japan, believing it got a stronger hand after joining American's Asia Pivot, nationalized those islands. China responds back and create an ADIZ over those islands and now patrols around those islands regularly with its ship. Result, Japan have less control of it then before.

For Philippine,fishermen from both China and Philippine were able to fish around Scarborough Shoal peaceful before, but after Philippine joined the Asia Pivot and send it biggest American-gifted Naval warship against Chinese fishermen there, things changed. Philippine pushed China and China shoveled back. China send unarmed patrols ships to the shoal and forced Philippines warship to flee. Result, Philippine totally lost control of the Shoal and now their fishermen can't even go fish there.

For Vietnam, it unilaterally tried to drill oil on disputed sea by itself and involving BP and India's OVL. China indirectlly told BP and OVL off. BP stopped and India's OVL ran off with its tail between it legs. Vietnam pushed China and now China is shoveling back. Result, China is sending its own Oil Rig to explore and drill for oil.

In all three cases, Japan , Philippine and Vietnam gained nothing by joining American's Asia Pivot other than western media's phony sympathies, but they will lose a lot in the future.


----------



## HeinzG

Rahul9090 said:


> if true then well done lanka let us all unite against the chinese



And what hug India instead? I think China is better for us than India in many ways.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## GCTom

and regardless what SL's PM might or might not have said, China regard SL as a friend and vice versa. No amount of Vietnam lies will damage their ties.


----------



## HeinzG

Gibbs said:


> To be fair.. In all honesty he would have actually state that.. But the 80+ year old senile fool is well known to shoot his own leg.. Sadly this is the caliber of some of the politicians they have.. Now the authorities will have to run around like headless chickens to clarify things..Thats how they run the banana republic of Sri Lanka



Agree with you here wholeheartedly.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## SHAMK9

This only proves that Sri Lanka works for its own interests


----------



## Skyline

China & Vietnam are both our friends, Sri Lanka will stay neutral.

In SL, PM post isn't powerful, it's just a puppet post.


----------



## GCTom

Skyline said:


> China & Vietnam are both our friends, Sri Lanka will stay neutral.
> 
> In SL, PM post isn't powerful, it's just a puppet post.



China is not asking anything more. SL should stay neutral on this issue and don't get dragged into it.


----------



## cirr

Vietnamese lying through their clinched teeth. 

SL said no such thing. Vietnam did. Or exactly the Vietnamese PM's office did.

Lying bastards. 

What SL said is in the 3rd paragraph.



Viet said:


> don´t judge too quick.
> 
> has the SL government accused Vietnam of misquoting?



It is very easy to verify the truth.

Show us the video which shows the PM actually said what the Vietnamese PM's Office claimed what he said.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Rechoice

cirr said:


> Vietnamese lying through their clinched teeth.
> 
> SL said no such thing. Vietnam did. Or exactly the Vietnamese PM's office did.
> 
> Lying bastards.
> 
> What SL said is in the 3rd paragraph.
> 
> 
> 
> It is very easy to verify the truth.
> 
> Show us the video which shows the PM actually said what the Vietnamese PM's Office claimed what he said.



They have, Just a China is upset.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Mujraparty

He was quoted as saying that on the issue of *China’s placement of its oil rig in Vietnam’s waters Sri Lanka supported Vietnam’s request for China to strictly adhere to international law, particularly the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea and the Declaration on the Conduct of parties in the East Sea*. *Premier Jayaratne was also quoted as saying China should withdraw its illegal oil rig from Vietnam’s exclusive economic zone and continental shelf to ensure peace and stability in the region.*

*In Colombo, the External Affairs Ministry, without making a reference to Premier Jayaratne, in a statement said*: “The attention of the Ministry of External Affairs has been drawn to comments in the international media on Sri Lanka’s position regarding the disputed South China Sea. *It is reiterated that the disputes concerning the South China Sea need to be settled bilaterally through negotiations by the concerned parties. This has been Sri Lanka’s consistent position on the said issue.”*

*PM backs Vietnam in dispute with China; EAM clarifies position | The Sundaytimes Sri Lanka*

did he really suggest china to remove oil rigs ...!!


----------



## Beast

Rechoice said:


> They have, Just a China is upset.


Really, rather its vietnamese jumping up and down over the misquote sentence thinking they are some superpower sri lanka will support 

The foreign affair of SL has stated very clearly, they hope this issue solved by dialogue and stay neutral.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

ViXuyen said:


> Considering Taiping island is 2000 km away from Taiwan, Vietnam should take preemptive surprise strike at this island to take back what belongs to us. Our Son Ca island is a new nautical miles away from Taiping so we can send our special forces (who can easily swim 20 km) to land on Taiping for the operation while we pound Taiping with our EXTRA rocket. Our Flankers and the Su-22 would have complete air dominance over this island so there is little hope that Taiwan can do anything. Once we take back Taiping, we will put our SAMs on it to fortify our position. I'm all for advocating a military strike on Taiwan to take back our dao Thai Binh that the Chinese stole from us.


We need to wait bro, Taiwan was control by America boss, they will give up Thai Binh Island for us when we can finish our deal with US and take care PRC. 


Speeder 2 said:


> How cute! The men and the women there are still wearing Bruce Lee-style sun glasses.


Oh, Chinese suffer terrorism, many internal social issues, and some idiot still try be cool in here. How cute, how cute ...

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Soryu

What's Vietnam side request to Chinese !?

This's answer:



> *Sri Lanka supported Vietnam’s request for China to strictly adhere to international law, particularly the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea and the Declaration on the Conduct of parties in the East Sea*



So it's clear, Sri Lanka supported Vietnam on this issue. 

Because PRC Govt was announce in Press conference that's Vietnam is provocative side, step in Chinese water, ram and spray water on Chinese Ships, using military while Chinese is all civillian ships and no armed ... (But when journalist ask about photo or evidence of this announce, Chinese spokeman can't not answer, avoid request and show their confusion)

Videos was provided by Vietnamese side show its clear: Chinese ships automatic (remote control) gun was on condition ready to fire, Chinese ship ram and attack Vietnamese ship on purpose

Chinese side is also request Vietnamese ships leave the area near 981 oil rig.

But Sri Lanka don't want provocative Chinese Govt go upset with them, so they must correct their position on this issue, but they're still support Vietnam's solution on the case.



> *MEA plays down DM’s comments*
> 
> The Ministry of External Affairs today attempted to play down comments reportedly made by Prime Minister D.M Jayaratne on the South China Sea dispute between China and Vietnam.
> The Vietnam Prime Minister’s office had yesterday quoted Prime Minister D.M Jayaratne as saying that Sri Lanka supports Vietnam’s stance on demanding China adhere to the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea and withdraw its drilling rig HD-981 out of Vietnam’s sovereignty and exclusive economic zone.
> 
> However the Sri Lankan External Affairs Ministry says Sri Lanka’s position has been that the disputes concerning the South China Sea need to be settled bilaterally through negotiations by the concerned parties.
> 
> “This has been Sri Lanka’s consistent position on the said issue,” the External Affairs Ministry said.
> 
> Jayaratne had reportedly made the controversial comments at a reception given by Vietnam Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung yesterday. *(Colombo Gazette)*

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Soryu

Denied !?
It's wirte on title: _*"Play down"*_
They don't want to upset Chinese Govt, so they must correct their position on this issue, but they're still support Vietnam's peaceful solution which base on DOC and UNCLOS was signed by Vietnamese and Chinese Govt.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## xunzi

Ungrateful. We remember.


----------



## Gibbs

SHAMK9 said:


> This only proves that Sri Lanka works for its own interests



And who is'nt ? SL own interests are to maintain it's already strong relationship with both China and Vietnam



xunzi said:


> Ungrateful. We remember.



Remember that a senile idiot of a PM shooting his mouth off or the official position of the govt retracting the idiot's statement ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> If our government wishes someone "support","back" VN...,firstly they must stop calling communist china as "good friend", "good neighbour", "good comrade" "good partner" bullshit. then quit the policy of "no alliance" to joint an alliance with the Philippines, Japan, US...who have common interests.


Political is complex, you can't do as you want or the way that you feel so easy, if you want to achieve your goal on this game.


----------



## Rechoice

Beast said:


> Really, rather its vietnamese jumping up and down over the misquote sentence thinking they are some superpower sri lanka will support
> 
> The foreign affair of SL has stated very clearly, they hope this issue solved by dialogue and stay neutral.



people in the world will support Vietnam, super or not super power nation. We respect them. Any case thanks for PM, he was frankly and good people. He understand what happen with Vietnam.


----------



## Oldman1

sweetgrape said:


> You can keep masturbating yourself here, whether we are mad? don't take the diplomatic language seriously.
> Whether we are scared by you, ask PLA. you think we are scared by you, so you can let your army cross 38 lines again, this time, how many allies will you organized?



Don't try to insult me when you have nothing to respond because I'm right. Your govt. says they are mad they are mad. You aren't the govt. so I'm not surprised you aren't concerned. But perhaps your govt. knows more than you do.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Pangu

xunzi said:


> 3. Go read UNCLOS regarding EEZ. It does not matter whether a country is archipelago nation or not. EEZ will apply to any territory that can "sustain life on its own". Paracel fits this description. In 1998 agreement, we settle this with UNCLOS already and was given an EEZ. Stop wasting my time to argue whether Paracel has its own EEZ. If Haiwaii archipelego has an EEZ, then Parcel deserves to have one. That the end of the talk. I'm sorry, my friend. Our American friends are free to discuss this with us over legal term.



*REGIME OF ISLANDS
*
Article 121. Regime of islands

1. An island is a naturally formed area of land, surrounded by water, which is above water at high tide.

2. Except as provided for in paragraph 3, the territorial sea, the contiguous zone, the exclusive economic zone and the continental shelf of an island are determined in accordance with the provisions of this Convention applicable to other land territory. 

3. Rocks which cannot sustain human habitation or economic life of their own shall have no exclusive economic zone or continental shelf.


*The oil rig being 18nm from ZhongJian is still within our contiguous zone.*

----------------------------------------------------
*The Five Archipelagic Sovereign States*



Fiji (Melanesia / Oceania)


Indonesia (Southeast Asia / Asia)


Papua New Guinea (Melanesia / Oceania)


 The Bahamas (Caribbean / North America)


 The Philippines (Southeast Asia / Asia)
BUT! Japan is not, yet they dictate EEZ for all their islands. Japan is just one example. 







Vietnam's hypothetical EEZ claim (in green) if they control Paracel & Spratly. Is Vietnam a archipelagic state too? 




EEZ Waters Of Viet Nam


----------



## Viet

Raphael said:


> I hope to see this VN-PH alliance . The world can call it the "dream team"!


not a bad idea.

Vietnam can establish a Vietnamese led military alliance in SEA:

we start with Laos and the Phillippines.
the we encourage Cambodia, Malaysia, Indonesia and Brunei to join the alliance.
the final step is to convice Thailand and Burma.

only a regional united front can stop your aggression.

then Vietnam negotiates a military alliance with other great powers: Russia, Japan and America.

that is what Vietnam needs: a multilayered defence.


----------



## Rechoice

xudeen said:


> *REGIME OF ISLANDS
> *
> Article 121. Regime of islands
> 
> 1. An island is a naturally formed area of land, surrounded by water, which is above water at high tide.
> 
> 2. Except as provided for in paragraph 3, the territorial sea, the contiguous zone, the exclusive economic zone and the continental shelf of an island are determined in accordance with the provisions of this Convention applicable to other land territory.
> 
> 3. Rocks which cannot sustain human habitation or economic life of their own shall have no exclusive economic zone or continental shelf.
> 
> 
> *The oil rig being 18nm from ZhongJian is still within our contiguous zone.*
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------
> *The Five Archipelagic Sovereign States*
> 
> 
> 
> Fiji (Melanesia / Oceania)
> 
> 
> Indonesia (Southeast Asia / Asia)
> 
> 
> Papua New Guinea (Melanesia / Oceania)
> 
> 
> The Bahamas (Caribbean / North America)
> 
> 
> The Philippines (Southeast Asia / Asia)
> BUT! Japan is not, yet they dictate EEZ for all their islands. Japan is just one example.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vietnam's hypothetical EEZ claim (in green) if they control Paracel & Spratly. Is Vietnam a archipelagic state too?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EEZ Waters Of Viet Nam



Hoang Sa is Island of Vietnam. occupation of China whit force is illegal. China is sea pirate country.


----------



## TaiShang

For more detailed video of the news below:

*Historic ASEAN Summit to be held in Myanmar*
CCTV.com

The 24th ASEAN summit is set to be a landmark in the history of the association of nations, with Myanmar acting as host for the first time. But tensions in the country threaten to cloud Myanmar’s hopes of using Sunday’s ASEAN summit as a coming-out celebration.

From once perceived as an isolated country, Myanmar has come a long way in reforming its political situation

And this, the 24th ASEAN summit, that starts with the meeting of the member country’s foreign ministers , is Myanmar’s first chance to show that it is ready…

to fully participate in the association of nations, that is also one of its’ fierce supporter

The country is also hoping to use the momentum of this chairmanship to further reforms in the country

Ye Htut, Myanmar presidential spokesman, said, "We have the more confident in our process (to reform) now, all the, even the different stakeholders are working to fulfil the ASEAN Summit chairmanship. So we want to bring this cooperation to the future reform process."

But this historic moment is potentially clouded by the events that transpired here…the south china sea..

Where tensions are running high after China, Vietnam and the Philippines were involved in a series of serious incidents at the disputed territory.

Marty Natalegawa, Indonesian foreign minister, said, "A quite substantive part of our discussion was on the South China Sea but as I said before not reflecting division, on the contrary reflecting our sense of common purpose. I think I said ministers were united in one thing to respond collectively the recent developments, expressing their concern and calling for exercise of restraint"

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Raphael

Viet said:


> not a bad idea.
> 
> Vietnam can establish a Vietnamese led military alliance in SEA:
> 
> we start with Laos and the Phillippines.
> the we encourage Cambodia, Malaysia, Indonesia and Brunei to join the alliance.
> the final step is to convice Thailand and Burma.



Wow! Dai Viet strong!

(P.S. Remember to wash your bedsheets today).

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

Obviously.

Sri Lanka has always maintained official neutrality regarding China-Vietnam disputes.

It makes no sense that they would suddenly make such a leap in their position. And they have clarified as such.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## BoQ77

This OIL RIG 981 in our EEZ, next OIL RIGs would be in our Beach


----------



## sincity

BoQ77 said:


> This OIL RIG 981 in our EEZ, next OIL RIGs would be in our Beach


 

Do something about if you think their oil rig in your beach, now you make Vietnam look weak for crying outloud. Bomb the rig and start a war with China.


----------



## Pakistanisage

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Obviously.
> 
> Sri Lanka has always maintained official neutrality regarding China-Vietnam disputes.
> 
> It makes no sense that they would suddenly make such a leap in their position. And they have clarified as such.





Pakistan totally and whole heartedly supports the Chinese stance on SCS dispute...

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## jandk

Pakistanisage said:


> Pakistan totally and whole heartedly supports the Chinese stance on SCS dispute...



LOL do you even know anything about the dispute? This is the problem with this site...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

Pakistanisage said:


> Pakistan totally and whole heartedly supports the Chinese stance on SCS dispute...



Thank you brother.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

sincity said:


> Do something about if you think their oil rig in your beach, now you make Vietnam look weak for crying outloud. Bomb the rig and start a war with China.


I told you already. Pls give us some toys then we are ready

- a fleet of nuclear subs (6)
- a fleet of destroyers (6)
- a squadron of F-35 (12)
- nuclear umbrella
- delivering of weapons and providing political backing

by the way, it is the nationalistic Global times who calls for a war against Vietnam (teach a lesson).


----------



## Rechoice

Pakistanisage said:


> Pakistan totally and whole heartedly supports the Chinese stance on SCS dispute...



you given yoủr land to China. we have to protect our land and sea. Is different.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## itaskol

Rechoice said:


> Hoang Sa is Island of Vietnam. occupation of China whit force is illegal. China is sea pirate country.


read this.





chinese goverment claim in1958
中华人民共和国政府关于领海的声明(1958年9月4日) 
中华人民共和国政府宣布 

（一）中华人民共和国的领海宽度为12海里。这项规定适用于中华人民共和国的一切领土，包括中国大陆及其沿海岛屿，和同大陆及其沿海岛屿隔有公海的台湾及其周围各岛、澎湖列岛、东沙群岛、西沙群岛、中沙群岛、南沙群岛以及其他属于中国的岛屿。 

（二）中国大陆及其沿海岛屿的领海以连接大陆岸上和沿海岸外缘岛屿上各基点之间的各直线为基线，从基线向外延伸12海里的水域是中国的领海。在基线以内的水域，包括渤海湾、琼州海峡在内、都是中国的内海、在基线以内的岛屿，包括东引岛、高登岛、马祖列岛、白犬列岛、乌岳岛、大小金门岛、大担岛、二担岛、东碇岛在内，都是中国的内海。 

　（三）一切外国飞机和军用船舶，未经中华人民共和国政府的许可，不得进入中国的领海和领海上空。 　　任何外国船舶在中国领海航行，必须遵守中华人民共和国政府的有关法令。 

　　（四）以上（一）（二）两项规定的原则同样适用于台湾及其周围各岛、澎湖列岛、东沙群岛、西沙群岛、南沙群岛以及其他属于中国的岛屿。 
and Vietnamese goverment already accept that at that time

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## BoQ77

there is no nine dashed line at that time, there is no agreement for anything under lat 17 because both china and North Vietnam agreed in 1954 the control right below lat 17 belong to South Vietnam. all related to early recognization of 12nm of territorial water from coast. fully comply with later unclos 1982
vietnam made the letter as china was fearing the US use Taiwan as 1st step to their mainland at that time

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## sweetgrape

Oldman1 said:


> Don't try to insult me when you have nothing to respond because I'm right. Your govt. says they are mad they are mad. You aren't the govt. so I'm not surprised you aren't concerned. But perhaps your govt. knows more than you do.


Seems you are good man, I am bad man, American, hehe!
I insult the man insulting my countries and people, don't be that hypocritic, OK.

My goverment says they are mad? where, give me the sourse? or just you say itis mad, so it is? Sorry, We are chinese, not your ally, or you dog, not you say we are, so we should are.

I don't concern what? and what my goverment know what I don't know? seems you know much, surprise you don't leak it out.


----------



## Globenim

Rechoice said:


> Hoang Sa is Island of Vietnam. occupation of China whit force is illegal.


Thats not for you to decide and not historical fact.

So stop screaming UNCLOS when you dont even understand what it says.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

Oh, old bullsh*t scrap, again.
I can't believe there're still Chinese try to used this text to cover their dirty hand!
So funny. Your comrade, Xunzi said it clearly: Chinese has big gun, and has big mouth, so Chinese can swallow anything that they want.
So you can stop your joke.


itaskol said:


> read this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> chinese goverment claim in1958
> 中华人民共和国政府关于领海的声明(1958年9月4日)
> 中华人民共和国政府宣布
> 
> （一）中华人民共和国的领海宽度为12海里。这项规定适用于中华人民共和国的一切领土，包括中国大陆及其沿海岛屿，和同大陆及其沿海岛屿隔有公海的台湾及其周围各岛、澎湖列岛、东沙群岛、西沙群岛、中沙群岛、南沙群岛以及其他属于中国的岛屿。
> 
> （二）中国大陆及其沿海岛屿的领海以连接大陆岸上和沿海岸外缘岛屿上各基点之间的各直线为基线，从基线向外延伸12海里的水域是中国的领海。在基线以内的水域，包括渤海湾、琼州海峡在内、都是中国的内海、在基线以内的岛屿，包括东引岛、高登岛、马祖列岛、白犬列岛、乌岳岛、大小金门岛、大担岛、二担岛、东碇岛在内，都是中国的内海。
> 
> （三）一切外国飞机和军用船舶，未经中华人民共和国政府的许可，不得进入中国的领海和领海上空。 　　任何外国船舶在中国领海航行，必须遵守中华人民共和国政府的有关法令。
> 
> （四）以上（一）（二）两项规定的原则同样适用于台湾及其周围各岛、澎湖列岛、东沙群岛、西沙群岛、南沙群岛以及其他属于中国的岛屿。
> and Vietnamese goverment already accept that at that time



P/S: Chinese can swallow anything, may be that's why your fellow boy - sweet-mock-grape can feed his people with sh*t. I still feel so disgusting about that when he admit it.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## itaskol

Soryu said:


> P/S: Chinese can swallow anything, may be that's why your fellow boy - sweet-mock-grape can feed his people with sh*t. I still feel so disgusting about that when he admit it.


you should keep feel disgusting ，who cares.
vietnam has bigger mouth，and cry everywhere.


----------



## Soryu

itaskol said:


> you should keep feel disgusting ，who cares.
> vietnam has bigger mouth，and cry everywhere.


Oh, don't want to crying more about the text, huh !?
People talk about peace, kid. 
Beast and idiot mental boys want big gun game play with jungle law, howling when they tried attacked other with their greedy, and swallow anything, even sh*t.
No wonder when Chinese keep suffer slaughter fate, even so many years after Japanese leave China mainland.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## GCTom

Pakistanisage said:


> Pakistan totally and whole heartedly supports the Chinese stance on SCS dispute...



Pakistan is a friend of China. However, I don't think China want Pakistan to take side on this issue either. This is why China never asked.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## GCTom

sincity said:


> Do something about if you think their oil rig in your beach, now you make Vietnam look weak for crying outloud. Bomb the rig and start a war with China.



They tried. Vietnam send tens of ships tried to block and ram China's rig. However, the Chinese ship stopped them.


----------



## ViXuyen

Kudos to Viet's hometown.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## captain Maximo

why would they Sri Lanka is china's friend they built many infrastructures in that country

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ViXuyen




----------



## Soryu

Video provide by Vietnamese Govt, show how provocative from Chinese forces:

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## GR!FF!N

Pakistanisage said:


> Pakistan totally and whole heartedly supports the Chinese stance on SCS dispute...



good good..now don't blame India next time we claim Pakistan don't have any sea to start with..something like this might be interesting..






Headlines---Breaking News.India extended its EEZ with a "9 dashed Line" and claimed Pakistan doesn't have any territorial water and EEZ to begin with.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Soryu

*China didn't know where the Spratlys were*

John Nery
Philippine Daily Inquirer May 12, 2014 1:00 am




This photograph taken on May 2, 2014 and released on May 7, 2014 by the Vietnamese Foreign Ministry shows a China Coast Guard ship, right, using a water cannon on a Vietnamese ship in the disputed waters in the South China Sea.//AFP

*In 1933, the French flexed their colonial muscles and annexed nine of the Spratly Islands. When the news spread, the fledgling and troubled Chinese republic faced a basic problem - it didn't know where the Spratlys were.*
A year earlier, the French had staked their claim to the Paracel Islands as part of their colony in Vietnam. The second French claim to part of the Spratlys befuddled the Chinese. As the scholar Francois-Xavier Bonnet of Irasec, the Research Institute on Contemporary Southeast Asia, noted as follows:

"These two claims of the French government confused the minds…not only of the Chinese public and the media, but also the official authorities like the military and the politicians in Guangdong province and Beijing. In fact, the Chinese believed that the Spratly Islands and Paracel Islands or Xisha were exactly the same group, but that the French had just changed the name as a trick to confuse the Chinese government. 

"To ascertain the position of the Spratly Islands, the Chinese consul in Manila, Kwong, went, on July 26, 1933, to the US Coast and Geodetic Survey and discovered, with surprise, that the Spratly Islands and the Paracel Islands were different and far apart."

I was led to Bonnet's much-read discussion paper, "Geopolitics of Scarborough Shoal" (something on the order of 100,000 downloads of the PDF version, I understand, since it was first posted in November 2012), by BBC journalist Bill Hayton. I found his map-based lecture on the origins of China's South China Sea claims last Friday at the University of the Philippines thought-provoking. 

When I asked Hayton to expand on his point, that in 1933 the Chinese government did not even know where the Spratlys were, he referred me to Bonnet, who happened to be sitting in the audience. Bonnet and Hayton have provided me copies of and links to the essential literature. 

Hayton's "South China Sea: Dangerous Ground" is due from Yale University Press later this year. The title is a play on another name for the Spratlys. 

They make for fascinating reading. To be sure, much of the information has been readily available online. Even the delicious irony of a Chinese consul consulting the offices of the US colonial administration in Manila to determine the location of the Spratlys has been knocking about in academic circles and on the Internet for at least a decade.

In 2004, Bonnet wrote "The Spratlys: A Past Revisited" for World Bulletin, a publication of the UP's Institute of International Legal Studies. His paper already includes a section on "the Chinese confusion" about the location of the nine annexed islands in the Spratlys.

Still, this particular moment in history remains under-known. Some passages from Bonnet's 2012 paper are perhaps worth repeating.

First, the following footnote. "The consul submitted, on August 1, 1933, his report to the Chinese Foreign Affairs Department, which said: 'The islands [in the Spratlys which the French annexed] are collectively known as Tizard Bank and are situated at 530 miles from Hainan, 350 miles from the Paracels and 200 miles from Palawan…The reports mentioning that the nine islands were part of Xisha [the Paracels] are incorrect'."

Second, this quote from a letter written by Wang Gong Da, director of the Peiping News, to the foreign affairs secretary: "Don't make a diplomatic blunder; these islands are not part of Xisha. Triton Island [in Xisha] is the southernmost part of our territory [this was written before China's absurd obsession with James Shoal]. South of Triton Island, there is no connection with the Chinese territory. Our so-called experts, geographers, Navy representatives, etc, are a shame to our country."

And third, this passage from a secret report of the Military Council, dated September 1, 1933: "In conclusion, we have only one piece of evidence, our fishermen from Hainan [who are present in parts of the Spratlys], and we have never done anything on these islands. We need to cool down the game with the French, but let our fishermen continue their activities to protect our fishing rights. Our Navy is weak and these nine islands are not useful for us now…"

I've tried to look for additional information about the 1933 annexation and the Chinese reaction. There is a news story in the Salt Lake Tribune, highlighting what was surely the geopolitical reality of the early 1930s. 

Datelined Manila, the report began: "The occupation by French dispatch boats of nine islets 200 miles west of the Philippines [the report got this fact right] in the South China Sea was the signal for a race between the Japanese and Chinese consulates here to obtain authentic information about the group."

There is an internal memorandum of the US Department of State, which noted that "A press dispatch dated July 28, 1933 from Manila stated that Chinese Consul Kwong was instructed by his government to investigate the occupation of the islands by the French and report as the Chinese government intended to oppose French occupation. The Chinese consul had already sent a preliminary report."

And who was K L Kwong? We learn from a copy of Who's Who in China (1934) that he was a career diplomat, who once represented China at the League of Nations in Geneva, and who served as Chinese consul-general in the Philippines from November 1930 to June 19, 1934. His next assignment was San Francisco.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## rott

Viet said:


> the Chinese did not help Russia in Crimea. they stayed neutral.
> 
> okay, Russia needs money, and they get from selling stuffs to the Chinese.
> but we have seen in history that sometimes politics has played a more dominant role than economics.
> 
> let wait how the Russians see this escalation. I am pretty sure if we win Russia, we will win this confrontation. a hostile Russia is the absolute nightmare for the Chinese. a two-front war.


Russia needs China more than Vietnam needs Russia. Stop being delusional. Russia wants China to side with it because of the US. What can Vietnam provide Russia? Buying a few kilo subs? I thought Viets are more smarter than this.


----------



## sincity

Viet said:


> I told you already. Pls give us some toys then we are ready
> 
> - a fleet of nuclear subs (6)
> - a fleet of destroyers (6)
> - a squadron of F-35 (12)
> - nuclear umbrella
> - delivering of weapons and providing political backing
> 
> by the way, it is the nationalistic Global times who calls for a war against Vietnam (teach a lesson).


 


Who will give Vietnam weapon for free? you ask a billion dollars question and no nation will give a damn to protect Vietnam interest without getting something in return.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ephone

I would like the Sri Lanka leader to tell Chinese leaders face to face. BTW, he is the P.M., right? It will be official if it is SL's president. 



Krueger said:


> Colombo Gazette
> May 10, 2014
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Sri Lanka supports Vietnam’s stance on demanding China adhere to the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea and withdraw its drilling rig HD-981 out of Viet Nam’s sovereignty and exclusive economic zone, the Vietnam Prime Minister’s office said.*
> 
> Sri Lanka’ PM D.M. Jayaratne made the statement at a reception given by PM Nguyen Tan Dung yesterday (May 9), regarding the East Sea issue.
> 
> He proposed dealing with the issue by peaceful measures on the basis of the international law.
> 
> The host leader affirmed that Viet Nam will do its utmost to work with Sri Lanka to make the two nations’ relations more efficient.
> 
> He welcomed Sri Lanka’s delegation led by PM D.M. Jayaratne to the United Nations Day of Vesak in Viet Nam and praised the country on its achievements over the past years.
> 
> He suggested the two nations support each other at multi-lateral forums, boost economic, trade and tourism cooperation, sign a bilateral agreement on trade and a cooperative plan between the two nations’ Ministries of Finance as well as set up a sub-committee on commerce.
> 
> The Vietnamese PM expects that Sri Lanka will create favorable conditions for Vietnamese businesses to launch long-term operation in its nation.
> 
> PM D.M. Jayaratne also confirmed that his country expects to cooperate with Viet Nam in crime prevention, realizing ethnic policies, science and technology.
> *Lanka backs Vietnam over China | Colombo Gazette*



SL's president is the top official. It will be more alarming if it is out of his mouth. 



Beast said:


> Do not fall for troll trick. It's a mis report and spin by media. I never believe Sri Lankan will take stance in this issue.
> 
> The only thing say by SL PM is resolving this issue by dialogue.


----------



## ephone

At the end of the day, SL wants to have nothing to do with that, let alone "support"... 

All other countries will do exactly the same. What are the benefits offending China??? They want China's market, investment and etc. Offending China will help them get those???




Soryu said:


> Denied !?
> It's wirte on title: _*"Play down"*_
> They don't want to upset Chinese Govt, so they must correct their position on this issue, but they're still support Vietnam's peaceful solution which base on DOC and UNCLOS was signed by Vietnamese and Chinese Govt.



You can definitely try that.



GR!FF!N said:


> good good..now don't blame India next time we claim Pakistan don't have any sea to start with..something like this might be interesting..
> 
> View attachment 28448
> 
> 
> Headlines---Breaking News.India extended its EEZ with a "9 dashed Line" and claimed Pakistan doesn't have any territorial water and EEZ to begin with.


----------



## Rechoice

ephone said:


> At the end of the day, SL wants to have nothing to do with that, let alone "support"...
> 
> All other countries will do exactly the same. What are the benefits offending China??? They want China's market, investment and etc. Offending China will help them get those???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can definitely try that.



Zheng He from China went to Sri Lanca and he made a stone mark in SL land. in future China could refer to travel to claim that nine-dash is reached toSri Lanca .

So China could bring his rig to SL water to dril oil.


----------



## BoQ77

vixuyen . dont bring all from viet forum onton here. it s harm


----------



## ViXuyen

BoQ77 said:


> vixuyen . dont bring all from viet forum onton here. it s harm


 What do u mean?


----------



## Rechoice

BoQ77 said:


> vixuyen . dont bring all from viet forum onton here. it s harm





ViXuyen said:


> What do u mean?



Vietnamese people hatred Chinese corruption Regime in China, who made troubles against Vietnam, not Chinese people at all.


----------



## ephone

Don't be an idiot. China has never based any SCS claims on ZhengHe. BTW, he reached the shore of Africa as well. You will see the absurdity of your remarks. I have no idea where you get that from.





Rechoice said:


> Zheng He from China went to Sri Lanca and he made a stone mark in SL land. in future China could refer to travel to claim that nine-dash is reached toSri Lanca .
> 
> So China could bring his rig to SL water to dril oil.


----------



## Rechoice

itaskol said:


> read this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> chinese goverment claim in1958
> 中华人民共和国政府关于领海的声明(1958年9月4日)
> 中华人民共和国政府宣布
> 
> （一）中华人民共和国的领海宽度为12海里。这项规定适用于中华人民共和国的一切领土，包括中国大陆及其沿海岛屿，和同大陆及其沿海岛屿隔有公海的台湾及其周围各岛、澎湖列岛、东沙群岛、西沙群岛、中沙群岛、南沙群岛以及其他属于中国的岛屿。
> 
> （二）中国大陆及其沿海岛屿的领海以连接大陆岸上和沿海岸外缘岛屿上各基点之间的各直线为基线，从基线向外延伸12海里的水域是中国的领海。在基线以内的水域，包括渤海湾、琼州海峡在内、都是中国的内海、在基线以内的岛屿，包括东引岛、高登岛、马祖列岛、白犬列岛、乌岳岛、大小金门岛、大担岛、二担岛、东碇岛在内，都是中国的内海。
> 
> （三）一切外国飞机和军用船舶，未经中华人民共和国政府的许可，不得进入中国的领海和领海上空。 　　任何外国船舶在中国领海航行，必须遵守中华人民共和国政府的有关法令。
> 
> （四）以上（一）（二）两项规定的原则同样适用于台湾及其周围各岛、澎湖列岛、东沙群岛、西沙群岛、南沙群岛以及其他属于中国的岛屿。
> and Vietnamese goverment already accept that at that time



The letter stated N. VN authority respect 12 n miles coastline of mainland China only which related to North VN after 1954,

Hoang Sa and Truong belong to South Vietnam in according to Geneva Accord 1954, China and North Vietnam signed it. China have to check before when you could sign in international agreement. Same as case is happent when you signed in UNCLOS.

China stop lie about nature of this letter.



ephone said:


> Don't be an idiot. China has never based any SCS claims on ZhengHe. BTW, he reached the shore of Africa as well. You will see the absurdity of your remarks. I have no idea where you get that from.



You can check on comments of Chinese forumers on PDF, what kind of idiot said that Zheng He on his travel to oversea "discovered " the Islands in SCS ?


----------



## BoQ77

zheng he discovered that this world is plain, and center of it in China. 

usa marked their sovereign on the Moon, and it is illegal to put Chinese Yutu onto that . 

Christopher Colombus discoverred Indian in nowaday America. so it belong to India. 

some funniest things we should know

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

sincity said:


> Do something about if you think their oil rig in your beach, now you make Vietnam look weak for crying outloud. Bomb the rig and start a war with China.



war always planning in secret. we are here not in position to answer you whether Vietnam use bomb or not. chinese mem here same. forum for understand other view, we want exchange with regular member not cyber cops of china.


----------



## sincity

BoQ77 said:


> war always planning in secret. we are here not in position to answer you whether Vietnam use bomb or not. chinese mem here same. forum for understand other view, we want exchange with regular member not cyber cops of china.


 


You try to win over moral support for Vietnam against China that your job since you're a Vietnamese, same go with Chinese poster they want to defend China position in the SCS. You're no different compare to Chinese poster in here, both of you staged your claim of ownership in the SCS for your own nation.


----------



## TaiShang

*South China Sea issue not problem between China, ASEAN, says FM spokeswoman*
Editor: _zhenglimin _丨Xinhu

BEIJING, May 10 (Xinhua) -- The South China Sea issue is not a problem between China and the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN), Chinese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying said here on Saturday.

Hua made the remarks after ASEAN foreign ministers issued a statement in Myanmar on Saturday, in which they expressed "serious concerns" over the ongoing developments in the South China Sea and called for a peaceful resolution.

"The Chinese side is always opposed to one or two countries' attempts to use the South Sea issue to harm the overall friendship and cooperation between China and the ASEAN," said the spokeswoman.

Hua said China stands ready to work together with the ASEAN to continue implementing the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea (DOC) comprehensively and effectively to safeguard peace and stability in the region.

China and the members of the ASEAN signed the DOC in 2002 and pledged to maintain restraint and not conduct activities that might complicate or escalate disputes in the region.

The Chinese side also hopes that ASEAN countries concerned will sincerely respect and implement the DOC and make positive contribution to peace and stability as well as maritime security in the sea, she added.

The ASEAN groups Brunei, Cambodia, Indonesia, Laos, Malaysia, Myanmar, the Philippines, Singapore, Thailand and Vietnam.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

China is coward.

What they do to Japan, Phil after President Obama visit Japan and Phillipines and make sure US protection for them against China aggression ? ... Although right before that it appear that they would swallow the Senkaku Islands and some small shoals of phil
Nothing ...

Now they turn to harrass Vietnam, ... so what would they do once US again confirm the protection to Vietnam ?
I guess nothing they could do ...

They would turn to another prey ... I guess


----------



## KickABJAss

Which one is crying here now? I see a tongue is licking India,Phillippine,and US/JP, and damn urgly US/JP's shit on the tongue was cleaned for not a long time.


----------



## Krueger

*By Associated Press *
*Monday May 12, 2014*

*HANOI, Vietnam — State media say a Vietnamese patrol boat has exchanged water cannon fire with Chinese vessels near an oil rig recently positioned by China in disputed waters.*

Two journalists for the Tuoi Tre newspaper reported they witnessed the exchange Monday in the South China Sea.

It was the first reported incident since last Wednesday in a tense standoff at the oil rig, which is surrounded by dozens of Chinese vessels. Both sides have accused the other of ramming ships.

The newspaper said the Vietnamese vessel displayed a banner in Chinese urging Beijing to withdraw the rig.

It said Chinese ships fired water cannons first, after which the Vietnamese ship responded.

Beijing deployed the rig on May 1, triggering the most serious incident in years in waters considered a possible global flashpoint.

Report: Vietnam, Chinese ships fire water cannons - The Washington Post


----------



## Raphael

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/12/world/asia/vietnam.html



> HANOI, Vietnam — Vietnam’s prime minister, Nguyen Tan Dung, accused China on Sunday of “dangerous and serious violations” in a territorial dispute that has raised anger toward China here to the highest levels in years.
> 
> Mr. Dung’s comments, which were carried in the Vietnamese state news media, were addressed to leaders of Southeast Asian countries attending a summit meeting in Myanmar. It was his strongest statement since China towed a huge oil rig into disputed waters off the coast of Vietnam this month.
> 
> “This extremely dangerous action has been directly endangering peace, stability, security, and marine safety,” Mr. Dung was quoted as saying, adding that Vietnam had acted with “utmost restraint.”
> 
> Mr. Dung’s comments were uncharacteristically spirited for the typically anodyne meetings of the 10-country Association of Southeast Asian Nations, but they failed to produce collective criticism of China. The leaders, who work by consensus, did not mention the dispute in their final statement on Sunday. Myanmar then released a statement after the meeting was over that expressed “serious concerns over the ongoing developments in the South China Sea,” but did not mention China. It called for self-restraint and the resolution of disputes by peaceful means.
> 
> The group’s refusal to weigh in appeared to be a victory for China and underlines how there does not yet appear to be a willingness or ability to address the territorial disputes in the South China Sea collectively. At least five nations claim islands in the sea, a major shipping lane and potential flash point as China becomes more assertive and hungry for resources.
> 
> Murray Hiebert, an expert on Southeast Asia at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington, said Vietnam and the Philippines, another vocal critic of Chinese maritime claims in the South China Sea, “clearly wanted something a lot stronger” out of the meeting.
> 
> The Association of Southeast Asian Nations, or Asean, has been unable in recent years to reach a common position on the South China Sea even as China’s claims have reached more than 1,000 miles southward from the Chinese mainland. A summit meeting in Cambodia two years ago failed to produce a final statement because leaders quarreled over the issue.
> 
> China is the region’s largest trade partner, and countries like Cambodia and Laos are large recipients of its aid.
> 
> “Within Asean, you have countries that really don’t want to rock the boat,” Mr. Hiebert said. “They are playing it pretty much down the middle.”
> 
> Foreign ministers at the meeting in Myanmar issued an oblique statement on Saturday citing “serious concerns over the ongoing developments in the South China Sea,” but did not mention China by name.
> 
> Several hundred protesters demonstrated peacefully outside the Chinese Embassy in Hanoi on Sunday, and Vietnam’s authoritarian government took the rare step of permitting journalists from the state-controlled news media to cover the protest. Signs displayed slogans like “Denounce the Chinese Invasion.”
> 
> “We don’t have a problem with Chinese people or their culture, but we resent their government conspiring against us,” Nguyen Xuan Pham, a literary critic, said as the protest swelled in a public park across from the embassy and a military museum.
> 
> China towed the oil rig earlier this month to waters near the Paracel Islands, which China controls and Vietnam claims.
> 
> China’s state-controlled Xinhua news agency said Sunday that the oil rig was “completely within” China’s territorial waters. The rig is 140 miles off the coast of Vietnam, and about 17 miles from a small island claimed by both countries.
> 
> The maritime standoff with China, which has controlled the islands since 1974, has been widely discussed both in Vietnam’s state-controlled news media and on Facebook, which is very popular among the country’s urban middle class.
> 
> China is one of Vietnam’s major trading partners, and both countries have nominally socialist one-party governments. But Vietnamese officials sometimes appeal to anti-China sentiments here that are never far from the surface and rooted in a history of conflict between the countries.
> 
> The Vietnamese government is balancing a desire to appear strong against China with the fear that anti-China sentiment could unite disgruntled citizens who have festering grievances over land grabs, religious persecution and other social issues.
> 
> Protesters on Sunday presumed to be plainclothes agents occasionally shoved and yelled at other protesters, but most uniformed security personnel sat nearby and did not interfere.
> 
> Many at the protest were adamant that China remove its oil rig, known as HD-981, from the disputed waters, but some also criticized Vietnam’s handling of the dispute, saying the government should be more assertive. The Foreign Ministry has not issued any statements about the dispute on its website since Wednesday, when it held a high-profile news briefing featuring senior officials and the chief executive of PetroVietnam, the state oil and gas monopoly.
> 
> “Vietnam’s top leaders should call a news conference, and top leaders should clearly demonstrate their attitude so that the Vietnamese people can know what they are thinking,” said Lan Le, 40, a fashion designer in Hanoi. She spoke before the prime minister’s comments were published.
> 
> Tuong Vu, an expert on modern Vietnamese history and politics at the University of Oregon, said Vietnam’s ruling Communist Party was broadly divided between a conservative faction loyal to China and another that advocates systemic economic reforms and strengthened ties with the United States and other Western countries. He said there would be fierce debate within the party about how to respond to China’s action, fueled by concerns about the long-term economic and political implications of the standoff.
> 
> The pro-China faction has held the upper hand since the 1990s, Mr. Vu added, and it would prefer to negotiate a solution to the current impasse through diplomatic back channels rather than by criticizing China too directly. That is partly out of fear that further escalation would do more damage to the bilateral relationship and possibly embolden domestic criticism of the government.
> 
> “They’ll just let the issue quiet down slowly and try to gradually return to the status quo,” Mr. Vu said. “But who knows? In the next week, the protests may occur on a much larger scale, and things may take a different direction.”




Once again, VN and PH efforts to hijack ASEAN and abuse and exploit it for advancing their own geopolitical agendas has failed. ASEAN is about trade, economic integration, and mutual cooperation. It's not about exploitation.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## BoQ77

china is pretending as victim of Vietnam harrash


----------



## hongquan

Raphael said:


> who also provided the basis of your entire culture, and also offered crucial assistance during your war with the USA, without which you could *never *grind them down



Chinese destroyed the culture of occupied countries, force people to practice Chinese culture to make people forget about the occupation and then brag as if they are helping.

Assistance during war with USA? It is just because China don't want USA win and move the battlefield to China. Note that to USA, the war is only to attack the communist system, and China is a biggest target after Russia. But before doing that, USA need to solve other smaller targets (VN, Korea) to isolate the big prey.

Another motivation of offering from China is to set a debt to VN, to easily control, and to look for support from VN in Soviet Union disputation.

And the fact that, in 1972, Mao Tzedong and USA reached an agreement that USA wouldn't attack China if China let USA to attack the North Vietnam. So, what is the point of "assistant" here?

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Krueger

May 12,2014







*NAYPYIDAW – Taking off from the joint statement of the foreign ministers, leaders of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) declared yesterday that all parties to the South China Sea dispute must stop raising tensions in the area, amid China’s more aggressive actions to assert its claim.*

The Naypyidaw Declaration on Realization of the ASEAN Community by 2015 said ASEAN leaders agreed to “strengthen cooperation” for the implementation of the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea (DOC) in accordance with universally recognized principles of international law, including the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), “especially calling on parties to exercise self-restraint and non-use of force.”

*The leaders also said parties must “refrain from taking actions that would escalate tension and to work toward an early conclusion of the Code of Conduct in the South China Sea as reflected in the ASEAN’s Six-Point Principles on the South China Sea.”*

They also agreed to promote and uphold the rule of law in the conduct of relations, including the peaceful resolution of disputes.

This has been the pitch of President Aquino as the Philippines went to the arbitral tribunal to peacefully settle the country’s maritime dispute with China.

*Gunboat diplomacy*

Some leaders spoke boldly about the need for ASEAN to unite and ensure that it would not become an insignificant force in the face of challenges.

In a press briefing at the Myanmar International Convention Center here, Presidential Communications Operations Office Secretary Herminio Coloma Jr. said *Indonesian President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono manifested that “there should be no room for the use of gunboat diplomacy” *because what should be promoted is “peaceful means of settling disputes” by following the UNCLOS and the DOC.

In international politics, gunboat diplomacy or “big stick diplomacy” in US history means having conspicuous displays of naval power to help the pursuit of foreign policy objectives, implying or constituting a direct threat of warfare, if the terms of negotiations will not be agreeable to the superior force.

In his extemporaneous remarks following his prepared statement, Yudhoyono, who was congratulated by many of his fellow heads of states as he was completing his second two-year term of office as Indonesian president, emphasized the need for ASEAN solidarity, Coloma said.

“He called on the members of ASEAN to show moral courage and he spoke after the president of Vietnam also called on ASEAN solidarity for following the rule of law,” Coloma said.

Coloma said *Malaysian President Najib Razak also called for “concrete demonstration of ASEAN solidarity in terms of promoting adherence to the rule of law” and display moral strength even in the face of “daunting situations.”*

“He said that this is the way by which ASEAN could project itself as a respectable and reliable organization,” Coloma added.

“We will notice that Malaysia, like the Philippines, is also involved in disputes over maritime domain in the South China Sea. We are aware that Vietnam is contesting certain actions taken against it in the South China Sea,” he said.

Coloma said *Vietnamese President Truong Tan Sang called for an end to the “brazen attacks” in the South China Sea and urged ASEAN to continue to work for unity and solidarity.*

In the plenary session of the leaders, Coloma said several heads of state expressed support for following the rule of law and peaceful settlement of disputes, which had been the key concepts promoted by the Philippines in past meetings of ASEAN.

“We will recall that in the middle of 2012, the Foreign Minister’s Meeting failed to come up with a communiqué. But in December 2012, on the prodding of President Aquino, there was agreement that ASEAN should start fleshing out the declaration on the conduct of parties involved in the South China Sea disputes. And from then on, there has been significant progress in terms of attaining support for the positions taken by the government,” Coloma said.

*Big step*

*Foreign Affairs Secretary Albert del Rosario said the foreign ministers’ statement on Saturday, even without directly mentioning China, was a significant step forward in the context of the dynamics of ASEAN.*

When a similar foreign ministers meeting was held in Cambodia two years ago, they failed to come up with a joint communiqué because of an impassé over whether or not to mention the South China Sea conflict.

Coloma said it was the Vietnamese that raised the recent developments in the South China Sea, which rolled over and led to the issuance of the foreign ministers’ joint statement.

Foreign ministers expressed serious concerns and called for restraint amid China’s incursions in the South China Sea, as the grouping faced criticisms that it could not stand up for its members getting bullied by Beijing.

*No more moratorium*

President Aquino, for his part, pushed vigorously yesterday for the ASEAN member-countries’ full integration rather than promote the status quo amid challenges in the South China Sea, poverty in the region, disasters and climate change that could reverse economic gains.

“We call for a review of the current policy of moratorium,” Aquino said, adding they should devise ways and means for ASEAN to expand development and dialogue cooperation with other interested states, regions and multilateral organizations that were in “a position to contribute to our community-building efforts.”

The President also called anew for adherence to the rule of law without directly mentioning the territorial dispute with China.

“We stand firm in our belief – a belief shared by all – that the rule of law is key in fostering a climate of stability, one that allows our societies and our people to flourish. As such, we look forward to working with our colleagues and partners in this summit toward enhancing our engagements in promoting the rule of law,” Aquino said in his intervention during the ASEAN Summit Plenary held at the Ruby Hall of the Myanmar International Convention Center here on external relations and future directions of ASEAN as a group.

“It is only natural that ASEAN seeks to engage more of the world in its pursuit of inclusive growth and integration. Perhaps the time has come to study ways on how best to do this efficiently – for instance, in engaging with others as regional blocs, instead of as individual nations,” Aquino said.

The President expressed belief ASEAN member-countries shared the advocacy of an outward-looking grouping with a more “inclusive perspective” in relating with dialogue partners, as well as those wishing to engage with ASEAN more comprehensively and openly.

He said without doubt, ASEAN had achieved much in the past 46 years, but “much more remains to be done.”

As leaders who envision the sustained progress, peace and stability of their respective nations and of ASEAN, Aquino said they would now have to deal with the challenge of exploring all avenues that could help them realize their vision.

“An ASEAN that envisions itself to be people-centered and people-oriented must be bold in harnessing innovation and existing ties to fully develop a regional organization that is composed of a more empowered citizenry,” Aquino said.

Meanwhile, Aquino also said he was looking forward to prospects for greater economic development once ASEAN integration had taken place, which would include greater facilitation of goods, services and persons.


*Asean to China: Stop raising tension at sea*

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Rechoice

There is good opportunity to criticize China - Vietnam's prime minister told southeast Asian leaders on Sunday that China was slandering his country and committing dangerous violations in disputed waters,

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## dray



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

> *Mr. Dung’s comments were uncharacteristically spirited for the typically anodyne meetings of the 10-country Association of Southeast Asian Nations, but they failed to produce collective criticism of China. The leaders, who work by consensus, did not mention the dispute in their final statement on Sunday.
> 
> The group’s refusal to weigh in appeared to be a victory for China and underlines how there does not yet appear to be a willingness or ability to address the territorial disputes in the South China Sea collectively.*



Excellent.

Thank you to ASEAN.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Pangu

I still remember kids used to chase each other using plastic water pistols, ahhh, the good old times.


----------



## Krueger

*

AFP

Published: May 12, 2014




*
*Decision set to further stoke simmering territorial dispute in the South China Sea.*

*Puerto Princesa: Philippine prosecutors said on Monday they would charge nine Chinese fishermen arrested in disputed South China Sea waters with environmental crimes, despite Beijing’s warning of a dire effect on relations.*

The decision, announced by prosecutors in Puerto Princesa on Palawan island, is set to further stoke the simmering territorial dispute in the South China Sea.

Prosecutor Allan Ross Rodriguez told AFP he would file charges in court later on Monday, rejecting the appeals of two Chinese diplomats who met him earlier in the day about the case.

*“It is clear: there was a fishing vessel, Chinese fishermen, a catch of [protected] sea turtles. It is clear from what the apprehending officers said,”* Rodriguez said, explaining the basis for his decision.

Chinese embassy officials in Manila could not be contacted for comment.

*Filipino police seized the Chinese-flagged vessel and detained its 11 crew last week off disputed Half Moon Shoal.*

However, two were found to be minors and would be repatriated without charges, Rodriguez said.

The remaining nine would be charged with violating laws against poaching and catching protected species.

*If found guilty of collecting “rare, threatened or endangered” species, the most serious allegation, they could face up to 20 years in prison and large fines.

Poaching in Philippine waters itself is punishable by fines of up to $200,000 (Dh734,600).*

Filipino police said they found a huge haul of hundreds of sea turtles — a protected species — on board the 15-tonne vessel, many of them already dead.

*China has demanded that the Philippines free the fishermen immediately, saying it has “undisputable sovereignty” over the shoal.

Its foreign ministry and embassy in Manila have also urged the Philippines to “stop taking further provocative action” that would harm relations.*

Rodriguez said the Philippine government has assigned lawyers to represent the crewmen after the Chinese diplomats declined to hire defence lawyers.

*Half Moon Shoal is 111 kilometres (60 nautical miles) west of Palawan, the most westerly island in the Philippines. It is located on the eastern edge of the Spratlys, a chain that sits near vital sea lanes and is believed to harbour vast oil and gas resources.*

China’s claim to nearly all of the South China Sea has strained its ties with Southeast Asian countries.

Last week Vietnam accused China of ramming its ships in an encounter near another disputed territory in the sea.

Leaders of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations, which includes both Vietnam and the Philippines, in a statement after a weekend summit expressed “serious concern” at the maritime disputes.

China’s extensive claims also overlap those of Asean members Brunei and Malaysia, as well as Taiwan’s.

The Philippines in March filed a formal plea to the United Nations challenging Beijing’s claims, in defiance of Chinese warnings that it would seriously damage their already frayed relations.

*Beijing has rejected UN arbitration *and urged Manila to settle the dispute through bilateral talks instead.

Philippines to charge ‘poachers’ despite China warning | GulfNews.com


----------



## cnleio

It looks like becoming water version of Sino-Vietnam land border disputes in 1980s.


----------



## 丶勿谓言之不预

In this dispute, China will be the winner. Vietnam is doomed to fail.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Beast

ASEAN countries are not interested in Vietnam and Pinoy BS. They are more interested in having more cooperation with China to help their own countries prosper. This is what I called, Good Government!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Beast

丶勿谓言之不预 said:


> In this dispute, China will be the winner. Vietnam is doomed to fail.



I still remember an egg shall not pick a fight with a stone.


----------



## BoQ77

Time will answer ... as I check, Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore, PH, VN ... all directly says about danger from China act ...


----------



## he-man

china will be busy with vietnam,phillipines and japan it seems.

thank god


----------



## Beast

BoQ77 said:


> Time will answer ... as I check, Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore, PH, VN ... all directly says about danger from China act ...





They are more concern about attracting more Chinese investor investing into their country. No ASEAN sane countries except the 2 insane one dare to mess around with China. We have a huge number of tourist ready to pour cash and let them earn more money. So as out billionaires investor ready to make them richer. These are the things that Pinoy and Vietnamese lack. In a jungle world, money talks!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## steelseries779

Beast said:


> ASEAN countries are not interested in Vietnam and Pinoy BS. They are more interested in having more cooperation with China to help their own countries prosper. This is what I called, Good Government!



Working with China, working with Vietnam and Pinoy....which has more potential, any one with normal IQ can make the choice quickly. Vietnam here have too much delusion

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

BoQ77 said:


> Time will answer ... as I check, Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore, PH, VN ... all directly says about danger from China act ...



So why is ASEAN refusing to criticize China?


----------



## BoQ77

When they all criticize China, then it's time for a military group form


----------



## Beast

BoQ77 said:


> When they all criticize China, then it's time for a military group form



But the problem is, it will never happen. In your dream, maybe!


----------



## Beast

he-man said:


> china will be busy with vietnam,phillipines and japan it seems.
> 
> thank god



China need not fight country with self destructed submarine.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## he-man

Beast said:


> China need not fight country with self destructed submarine.



expected stupid comment from chinese

so u hope to counter 

japan
usa
india
phillipines
vietnam


on ur own??
wake up and smell the coffee,,any hope of balance is india supporting china on these issues which won't happen

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## mrfly911

丶勿谓言之不预 said:


> In this dispute, China will be the winner. Vietnam is doomed to fail.





Beast said:


> I still remember an egg shall not pick a fight with a stone.



You guys said like your ancestors (Song, Yuan, Ming, Qing dynasty) did... Instead of becoming a 君子 Junzi country, China becomes a 霸権 Baquan.

Maybe China will win in this dispute. But the Vietnamese will never give up!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ephone

You must be joking, right? South vn practiced capitalism, why didn't the north vn keep it??? 

South vn despised the north vn, why didn't north vn get the hell out???

Whether Zhenghe found those islands on his seven voyages is not that important. China has traded with South Asia, Indian continents, even Arabs long before Ming Dynasty. We have been there long before Zhenghe time.

BTW, China officially never simply based her claims on Zhenghe at all. So do not use hearsays here.



Rechoice said:


> The letter stated N. VN authority respect 12 n miles coastline of mainland China only which related to North VN after 1954,
> 
> Hoang Sa and Truong belong to South Vietnam in according to Geneva Accord 1954, China and North Vietnam signed it. China have to check before when you could sign in international agreement. Same as case is happent when you signed in UNCLOS.
> 
> China stop lie about nature of this letter.
> 
> 
> 
> You can check on comments of Chinese forumers on PDF, what kind of idiot said that Zheng He on his travel to oversea "discovered " the Islands in SCS ?



We do not have to pretend. We respond to any threat properly.

BTW, we know vn wants to use frogmen to infiltrate. You have been warned. We have every military equipments, special forces including frogmen as well. 

You want to escalate, China will gladly to take your offer. Every loss China takes, we will make sure we returns at least 10 times. You don't trust me, well, let's check reality afterwards.



BoQ77 said:


> china is pretending as victim of Vietnam harrash


----------



## Beast

he-man said:


> expected stupid comment from chinese
> 
> so u hope to counter
> 
> japan
> usa
> india
> phillipines
> vietnam
> 
> 
> on ur own??
> wake up and smell the coffee,,any hope of balance is india supporting china on these issues which won't happen



No military forces can suffer without financial support. Look at India armed forces modernisation has stalled becos of running out of money. 

Our nearly 4 trillion reserve is enough to take on all those nation combine. Which is precisely our oil rig is still there and nobody dare to take it down.


----------



## he-man

Beast said:


> No military forces can suffer without financial support. Look at India armed forces modernisation has stalled becos of running out of money.
> 
> Our nearly 4 trillion reserve is enough to take on all those nation combine. Which is precisely our oil rig is still there and nobody dare to take it down.



and u think our reserves will remain static??
japanese companies are gonna pull out of china and go where??
same with the usa companies when they perceive china as enemy??

thats right------india


----------



## Beast

mrfly911 said:


> You guys said like your ancestors (Song, Yuan, Ming, Qing dynasty) did... Instead of becoming a 君子 Junzi country, China becomes a 霸権 Baquan.
> 
> Maybe China will win in this dispute. But the Vietnamese will never give up!



Vietnamese shall act according to situation and do what's best for the country now and future. A little humiliation pave the way for greatness in future.

Accept China proposal for joint oil exploration in paracel and spratly island. Recognise China complete ownership of those mention islands and make the neccessary withdrawal. This is the best solution for Vietnam.



he-man said:


> and u think our reserves will remain static??
> japanese companies are gonna pull out of china and go where??
> same with the usa companies when they perceive china as enemy??
> 
> thats right------india



 You are so naive to think that. Both Japan and US already banking on China huge market as their future saviour. Which country has world class infrastruture for setting up idea manufacturing plant with decent operating cost? Nobody except China.

Stupid country like India instead of investing heavily in infrastructure to attract big manufacturing MMC to invest there, opt to invest in foreign military procurement which only drag down India economic prgress. Look at the economic data , they do not lie. Our national reserves is going to hit 4 trillion very soon.


----------



## ephone

What a bunch of heartless bastards.

By your lies,China has not assisted vn after 1972???

Even further, concerns for U.S. is the only reason why China sent so much help to vn, risked fighting U.S. again not that long ago for korean war, to support vn???

Why don't you tell me any other countries that have done that to protect a smaller country risking fighting an all-front war with one of the Superpower???

Without China's protection, your northern vn would have been bombed to stone ages.

At the end of day, bastards are simply just bastards.



hongquan said:


> Chinese destroyed the culture of occupied countries, force people to practice Chinese culture to make people forget about the occupation and then brag as if they are helping.
> 
> Assistance during war with USA? It is just because China don't want USA win and move the battlefield to China. Note that to USA, the war is only to attack the communist system, and China is a biggest target after Russia. But before doing that, USA need to solve other smaller targets (VN, Korea) to isolate the big prey.
> 
> Another motivation of offering from China is to set a debt to VN, to easily control, and to look for support from VN in Soviet Union disputation.
> 
> And the fact that, in 1972, Mao Tzedong and USA reached an agreement that USA wouldn't attack China if China let USA to attack the North Vietnam. So, what is the point of "assistant" here?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## he-man

Beast said:


> Vietnamese shall act according to situation and do what's best for the country now and future. A little humiliation pave the way for greatness in future.
> 
> Accept China proposal for joint oil exploration in paracel and spratly island. Recognise China complete ownership of those mention islands and make the neccessary withdrawal. This is the best solution for Vietnam.
> 
> 
> 
> You are so naive to think that. Both Japan and US already banking on China huge market as their future saviour. Which country has world class infrastruture for setting up idea manufacturing plant with decent operating cost? Nobody except China.
> 
> Stupid country like India instead of investing heavily in infrastructure to attract big manufacturing MMC to invest there, opt to invest in foreign military procurement which only drag down India economic prgress. Look at the economic data , they do not lie. Our national reserves is going to hit 4 trillion very soon.



for now yes but things are gonna change drastically in next 10 years,,,if u don't realize it then well u have no right to be on this forum


----------



## BoQ77

oh, we don't want to share you about that secret


----------



## WuMaoCleverbot

*Asean to China: Stop raising tension at sea*
By Aurea Calica (The Philippine Star) | Updated May 12, 2014 - 12:00am

NAYPYIDAW – Taking off from the joint statement of the foreign ministers, leaders of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) declared yesterday that all parties to the South China Sea dispute must stop raising tensions in the area, amid China’s more aggressive actions to assert its claim.

The Naypyidaw Declaration on Realization of the ASEAN Community by 2015 said ASEAN leaders agreed to “strengthen cooperation” for the implementation of the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea (DOC) in accordance with universally recognized principles of international law, including the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), “especially calling on parties to exercise self-restraint and non-use of force.”

The leaders also said parties must “refrain from taking actions that would escalate tension and to work toward an early conclusion of the Code of Conduct in the South China Sea as reflected in the ASEAN’s Six-Point Principles on the South China Sea.”

They also agreed to promote and uphold the rule of law in the conduct of relations, including the peaceful resolution of disputes.

This has been the pitch of President Aquino as the Philippines went to the arbitral tribunal to peacefully settle the country’s maritime dispute with China.

*Gunboat diplomacy*

Some leaders spoke boldly about the need for ASEAN to unite and ensure that it would not become an insignificant force in the face of challenges.

In a press briefing at the Myanmar International Convention Center here, Presidential Communications Operations Office Secretary Herminio Coloma Jr. said Indonesian President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono manifested that “there should be no room for the use of gunboat diplomacy” because what should be promoted is “peaceful means of settling disputes” by following the UNCLOS and the DOC.

In international politics, gunboat diplomacy or “big stick diplomacy” in US history means having conspicuous displays of naval power to help the pursuit of foreign policy objectives, implying or constituting a direct threat of warfare, if the terms of negotiations will not be agreeable to the superior force.

In his extemporaneous remarks following his prepared statement, Yudhoyono, who was congratulated by many of his fellow heads of states as he was completing his second two-year term of office as Indonesian president, emphasized the need for ASEAN solidarity, Coloma said.

“He called on the members of ASEAN to show moral courage and he spoke after the president of Vietnam also called on ASEAN solidarity for following the rule of law,” Coloma said.

Coloma said Malaysian President Najib Razak also called for “concrete demonstration of ASEAN solidarity in terms of promoting adherence to the rule of law” and display moral strength even in the face of “daunting situations.”

“He said that this is the way by which ASEAN could project itself as a respectable and reliable organization,” Coloma added.

“We will notice that Malaysia, like the Philippines, is also involved in disputes over maritime domain in the South China Sea. We are aware that Vietnam is contesting certain actions taken against it in the South China Sea,” he said.

Coloma said Vietnamese President Truong Tan Sang called for an end to the “brazen attacks” in the South China Sea and urged ASEAN to continue to work for unity and solidarity.

In the plenary session of the leaders, Coloma said several heads of state expressed support for following the rule of law and peaceful settlement of disputes, which had been the key concepts promoted by the Philippines in past meetings of ASEAN.

“We will recall that in the middle of 2012, the Foreign Minister’s Meeting failed to come up with a communiqué. But in December 2012, on the prodding of President Aquino, there was agreement that ASEAN should start fleshing out the declaration on the conduct of parties involved in the South China Sea disputes. And from then on, there has been significant progress in terms of attaining support for the positions taken by the government,” Coloma said.

*Big step*

Foreign Affairs Secretary Albert del Rosario said the foreign ministers’ statement on Saturday, even without directly mentioning China, was a significant step forward in the context of the dynamics of ASEAN.

When a similar foreign ministers meeting was held in Cambodia two years ago, they failed to come up with a joint communiqué because of an impassé over whether or not to mention the South China Sea conflict.

Coloma said it was the Vietnamese that raised the recent developments in the South China Sea, which rolled over and led to the issuance of the foreign ministers’ joint statement.

Foreign ministers expressed serious concerns and called for restraint amid China’s incursions in the South China Sea, as the grouping faced criticisms that it could not stand up for its members getting bullied by Beijing.

No more moratorium

President Aquino, for his part, pushed vigorously yesterday for the ASEAN member-countries’ full integration rather than promote the status quo amid challenges in the South China Sea, poverty in the region, disasters and climate change that could reverse economic gains.

“We call for a review of the current policy of moratorium,” Aquino said, adding they should devise ways and means for ASEAN to expand development and dialogue cooperation with other interested states, regions and multilateral organizations that were in “a position to contribute to our community-building efforts.”

The President also called anew for adherence to the rule of law without directly mentioning the territorial dispute with China.

“We stand firm in our belief – a belief shared by all – that the rule of law is key in fostering a climate of stability, one that allows our societies and our people to flourish. As such, we look forward to working with our colleagues and partners in this summit toward enhancing our engagements in promoting the rule of law,” Aquino said in his intervention during the ASEAN Summit Plenary held at the Ruby Hall of the Myanmar International Convention Center here on external relations and future directions of ASEAN as a group.

“It is only natural that ASEAN seeks to engage more of the world in its pursuit of inclusive growth and integration. Perhaps the time has come to study ways on how best to do this efficiently – for instance, in engaging with others as regional blocs, instead of as individual nations,” Aquino said.

The President expressed belief ASEAN member-countries shared the advocacy of an outward-looking grouping with a more “inclusive perspective” in relating with dialogue partners, as well as those wishing to engage with ASEAN more comprehensively and openly.

He said without doubt, ASEAN had achieved much in the past 46 years, but “much more remains to be done.”

As leaders who envision the sustained progress, peace and stability of their respective nations and of ASEAN, Aquino said they would now have to deal with the challenge of exploring all avenues that could help them realize their vision.

“An ASEAN that envisions itself to be people-centered and people-oriented must be bold in harnessing innovation and existing ties to fully develop a regional organization that is composed of a more empowered citizenry,” Aquino said.

Meanwhile, Aquino also said he was looking forward to prospects for greater economic development once ASEAN integration had taken place, which would include greater facilitation of goods, services and persons.

Asean to China: Stop raising tension at sea | Headlines, News, The Philippine Star | philstar.com

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## 丶勿谓言之不预

he-man said:


> for now yes but things are gonna change drastically in next 10 years,,,if u don't realize it then well u have no right to be on this forum


The fact is that China will still be stronger than India, even after 20 years. You have to admit it.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Beast

he-man said:


> for now yes but things are gonna change drastically in next 10 years,,,if u don't realize it then well u have no right to be on this forum



 I been waiting for 10 years for India to change and yet its still the same old India.

Don't make the mistake of bragging on things not happen yet. It's fatal mistake!


----------



## WuMaoCleverbot

*China poachers charged; turtles returned to sea*
By Edu Punay (The Philippine Star) | Updated May 12, 2014 - 12:00am

MANILA, Philippines - The 11 Chinese fishermen caught poaching off Half Moon Shoal in the disputed Spratly Islands were criminally charged before the Puerto Princesa City prosecutor’s office last Friday, the Department of Justice (DOJ) has confirmed.

This developed as the Philippine National Police (PNP) maritime group in Palawan released back into the wild 177 sea turtles seized from the fishing vessel of the alleged poachers.

Prosecutor General Claro Arellano, chief of the DOJ’s prosecutorial arm, said yesterday that the complaint of the arresting officers of the PNP maritime group was docketed last Friday but the proceedings were postponed.

“The PNP brought the Chinese poachers last Friday for inquest. But they had no lawyer and interpreter,” Arellano said.

He said the Chinese fishermen did not want to be represented by the public attorneys being provided to them during the hearing.

“The prosecutor asked them to come back on Monday. But the case was docketed for inquest so it’s considered filed,” he said.

Headlines ( Article MRec ), pagematch: 1, sectionmatch: 1
It was learned that investigating provincial prosecutor Allen Ross Rodriguez also required the PNP to present the evidence, including the fishermen’s vessel and the sea turtles seized from them.

Arellano confirmed that the PNP filed the complaint against the Chinese fishermen for violation of Republic Act 8550 (Fisheries Code), particularly Section 87 or poaching in Philippine waters and Section 97 or fishing or taking of rare, threatened or endangered species; and R.A. 9147 (Wildlife Resources Conservation and Protection Act).

The charges are bailable, he said.

Rodriguez said that another case involving the fishermen’s illegal entry in the country may prompt the Bureau of Immigration to hold their departure.

He said the vessel will be subjected to inventory by the Palawan Council for Sustainable Development.

The Chinese government earlier demanded the release of their fishermen.

But the Palace said it would proceed with the prosecution of the arrested poachers, insisting they had trespassed into the country’s exclusive economic zone.

*Up to DFA*

DOJ Secretary Leila de Lima, for her part, said she would leave the issue involving China’s demand to the Department of Foreign Affairs (DFA).

“At this point, it’s the DFA that should address the matter so as not to further fuel any tension with China. I know the DFA is working on it,” she said yesterday.

“We have our own UNCLOS (United Convention on the Law of the Sea). We have our own laws like R.A. 8550,” she said.

The alleged poachers, who had been taken to the provincial police office in Palawan for custody, were visited by the Chinese consul.

Sought for comment, the Chinese official refused to give any statement.

*Slaughtered, stuffed*

The 177 sea turtles released back into the wild by the PNP maritime group were part of the 555 endangered marine mammals that police maritime patrollers found in the vessel of the Chinese fishermen last week.

“As per inventory, out of the 555 sea turtles that were recovered, only 177 were found alive, while the rest were dead. Two hundred seven of them were slaughtered and stuffed,” the maritime group said in its report.

Seventy-five sea turtle shells were also found in the seized fishing vessel.

*Propaganda tool*

Meanwhile, an opposition lawmaker yesterday lambasted China for turning the poaching incident involving its nationals into a major diplomatic issue to bolster its claim over the West Philippine Sea.

“Whichever way China packages the issue, it cannot hide the fact that Chinese nationals were caught conducting illegal activities in Philippine waters,” Kabataan party-list Rep. Terry Ridon said.

Ridon said China is exploiting the poaching incident to advance its propaganda about its absurd nine-dash line claim.

“It is illogical to say that the arrest of the Chinese nationals is a ‘premeditated provocative action’ on the part of the Philippines. Philippine officials were only exercising their police power in our exclusive economic zone when they made the arrests,” he said.

He added that *asking the Philippine government to release the poachers without prosecution is tantamount to saying that China is condoning their illegal activities.*

“Chinese officials should stop making absurd statements and claims and focus on the facts of the incident,” the lawmaker said.

Ridon urged the Aquino administration to file a diplomatic protest regarding the latest incident of Chinese incursion in Philippine waters. – *With Jaime Laude, Paolo Romero

China poachers charged; turtles returned to sea | Headlines, News, The Philippine Star | philstar.com*


----------



## he-man

丶勿谓言之不预 said:


> The fact is that China will still be stronger than India, even after 20 years. You have to admit it.


did i say otherwise??

problem is japan-india-vietnam-philipines combine


----------



## Viet

like children playing water. but the chinese have more vessels than ours.

what comes next?

I suggest the chinese catch some fresh fish and throw it to our vessel. so we have some fresh fish for the dinner.


----------



## Viet

丶勿谓言之不预 said:


> In this dispute, China will be the winner. Vietnam is doomed to fail.


nada...it is too early at this stage.


----------



## sword1947

Viet said:


> like children playing water. but the chinese have more vessels than ours.
> 
> what comes next?
> 
> I suggest the chinese catch some fresh fish and throw it to our vessel. so we have some fresh fish for the dinner.



spend more money to build or buy more vessels for playing water with us. Go and do it


----------



## sword1947

BoQ77 said:


> When they all criticize China, then it's time for a military group form



Go and ask them do it now



BoQ77 said:


> oh, we don't want to share you about that secret



Because you have nothing in your mind

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

I thought Chinese don't bebieve western media !?
ASEAN countries don't want Chinese upset, they don't want rise tension, so no need to condemn or accused China.

Chinese Government spokeman said in Press conference: "There's no clash between Vietnam and Chinese on SCS"
But ASEAN announce it clear: " Yes, there is"

Chinese delusion boys are no need to believe the fact in real world.






*NAYPYIDAW – Taking off from the joint statement of the foreign ministers, leaders of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) declared yesterday that all parties to the South China Sea dispute must stop raising tensions in the area, amid China’s more aggressive actions to assert its claim.*

The Naypyidaw Declaration on Realization of the ASEAN Community by 2015 said ASEAN leaders agreed to “strengthen cooperation” for the implementation of the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea (DOC) in accordance with universally recognized principles of international law, including the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), “especially calling on parties to exercise self-restraint and non-use of force.”

_*The leaders also said parties must “refrain from taking actions that would escalate tension and to work toward an early conclusion of the Code of Conduct in the South China Sea as reflected in the ASEAN’s Six-Point Principles on the South China Sea.”*_

They also agreed to promote and uphold the rule of law in the conduct of relations, including the peaceful resolution of disputes.

This has been the pitch of President Aquino as the Philippines went to the arbitral tribunal to peacefully settle the country’s maritime dispute with China.

*Gunboat diplomacy*

Some leaders spoke boldly about the need for ASEAN to unite and ensure that it would not become an insignificant force in the face of challenges.

In a press briefing at the Myanmar International Convention Center here, Presidential Communications Operations Office Secretary Herminio Coloma Jr. said *Indonesian President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono manifested that “there should be no room for the use of gunboat diplomacy” *_because what should be promoted is “peaceful means of settling disputes” by following the UNCLOS and the DOC._

In international politics, gunboat diplomacy or “big stick diplomacy” in US history means having conspicuous displays of naval power to help the pursuit of foreign policy objectives, implying or constituting a direct threat of warfare, if the terms of negotiations will not be agreeable to the superior force.

In his extemporaneous remarks following his prepared statement, Yudhoyono, who was congratulated by many of his fellow heads of states as he was completing his second two-year term of office as Indonesian president, emphasized the need for ASEAN solidarity, Coloma said.

“He called on the members of ASEAN to show moral courage and he spoke after the president of Vietnam also called on ASEAN solidarity for following the rule of law,” Coloma said.

Coloma said *Malaysian President Najib Razak also called for “concrete demonstration of ASEAN solidarity in terms of promoting adherence to the rule of law” and display moral strength even in the face of “daunting situations.”*

“He said that this is the way by which ASEAN could project itself as a respectable and reliable organization,” Coloma added.

“We will notice that Malaysia, like the Philippines, is also involved in disputes over maritime domain in the South China Sea. We are aware that Vietnam is contesting certain actions taken against it in the South China Sea,” he said.

Coloma said *Vietnamese President Truong Tan Sang called for an end to the “brazen attacks” in the South China Sea and urged ASEAN to continue to work for unity and solidarity.*

In the plenary session of the leaders, Coloma said several heads of state expressed support for following the rule of law and peaceful settlement of disputes, which had been the key concepts promoted by the Philippines in past meetings of ASEAN.

“We will recall that in the middle of 2012, the Foreign Minister’s Meeting failed to come up with a communiqué. But in December 2012, on the prodding of President Aquino, there was agreement that ASEAN should start fleshing out the declaration on the conduct of parties involved in the South China Sea disputes. And from then on, there has been significant progress in terms of attaining support for the positions taken by the government,” Coloma said.

*Big step*

*Foreign Affairs Secretary Albert del Rosario said the foreign ministers’ statement on Saturday, even without directly mentioning China, was a significant step forward in the context of the dynamics of ASEAN.*

When a similar foreign ministers meeting was held in Cambodia two years ago, they failed to come up with a joint communiqué because of an impassé over whether or not to mention the South China Sea conflict.

Coloma said it was the Vietnamese that raised the recent developments in the South China Sea, which rolled over and led to the issuance of the foreign ministers’ joint statement.

Foreign ministers expressed serious concerns and called for restraint amid China’s incursions in the South China Sea, as the grouping faced criticisms that it could not stand up for its members getting bullied by Beijing.

*No more moratorium*

President Aquino, for his part, pushed vigorously yesterday for the ASEAN member-countries’ full integration rather than promote the status quo amid challenges in the South China Sea, poverty in the region, disasters and climate change that could reverse economic gains.

“We call for a review of the current policy of moratorium,” Aquino said, adding they should devise ways and means for ASEAN to expand development and dialogue cooperation with other interested states, regions and multilateral organizations that were in “a position to contribute to our community-building efforts.”

The President also called anew for adherence to the rule of law without directly mentioning the territorial dispute with China.

“We stand firm in our belief – a belief shared by all – that the rule of law is key in fostering a climate of stability, one that allows our societies and our people to flourish. As such, we look forward to working with our colleagues and partners in this summit toward enhancing our engagements in promoting the rule of law,” Aquino said in his intervention during the ASEAN Summit Plenary held at the Ruby Hall of the Myanmar International Convention Center here on external relations and future directions of ASEAN as a group.

“It is only natural that ASEAN seeks to engage more of the world in its pursuit of inclusive growth and integration. Perhaps the time has come to study ways on how best to do this efficiently – for instance, in engaging with others as regional blocs, instead of as individual nations,” Aquino said.

The President expressed belief ASEAN member-countries shared the advocacy of an outward-looking grouping with a more “inclusive perspective” in relating with dialogue partners, as well as those wishing to engage with ASEAN more comprehensively and openly.

He said without doubt, ASEAN had achieved much in the past 46 years, but “much more remains to be done.”

As leaders who envision the sustained progress, peace and stability of their respective nations and of ASEAN, Aquino said they would now have to deal with the challenge of exploring all avenues that could help them realize their vision.

“An ASEAN that envisions itself to be people-centered and people-oriented must be bold in harnessing innovation and existing ties to fully develop a regional organization that is composed of a more empowered citizenry,” Aquino said.

Meanwhile, Aquino also said he was looking forward to prospects for greater economic development once ASEAN integration had taken place, which would include greater facilitation of goods, services and persons.

*Asean to China: Stop raising tension at sea*


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

sincity said:


> Your comment suggest if India have territory dispute with Pakistan then Pakistan will understand the situation Vietnam in, Pakistan fought a war in Kasmir region they believe India illegal occupied Kasmir region. Pakistan will never support Vietnam against China that for sure.


No, I mean "nine dash line" funny bullshit.
Pakistan is only a hypothesis.
I want to know How Pakistanis will react if they see a claim "nine dash line" on their waters like as the picture.
you understand?


----------



## hongquan

ephone said:


> You must be joking, right? South vn practiced capitalism, why didn't the north vn keep it???


Why is the North have to keep all? What to keep and what not is their freedom. Now Chinese also even want to intervene that?



ephone said:


> Whether Zhenghe found those islands on his seven voyages is not that important. China has traded with South Asia, Indian continents, even Arabs long before Ming Dynasty. We have been there long before Zhenghe time.
> 
> BTW, China officially never simply based her claims on Zhenghe at all. So do not use hearsays here.


If so, the Vietnamese even had been there longer, based on the fact at first, the ancient Chinese kingdoms was very far to the north, far from the South China Sea coast, why the ancient Viet kingdoms is always bordering with the sea.[/quote]



ephone said:


> BTW, we know vn wants to use frogmen to infiltrate. You have been warned. We have every military equipments, special forces including frogmen as well.
> 
> You want to escalate, China will gladly to take your offer. Every loss China takes, we will make sure we returns at least 10 times. You don't trust me, well, let's check reality afterwards.


This just proves how violent and rude Chinese are. Always use violence power to threat others ) (This implies how illegal the occupation is)

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

*PM Dung's Full Remarks at 24th ASEAN Summit*

VGP - PM Nguyen Tan Dung on May 11 delivered his remarks at the 24th ASEAN Summit held in in Nay Pyi Taw, Myanmar.

_Excellency President U Thein Sein, Chair of ASEAN Summit 2014,_

_Your Majesty,_

_Colleagues,_

At the outset, Viet Nam would like to thank Myanmar for the hospitality and congratulate the country on its assumption of the ASEAN Chair for the first time. Myanmar always has Viet Nam’s support and cooperation in making its ASEAN Chair 2014 a success.

In accordance with our Meeting’s agenda, we wish to share some ideas as follows:

*1. On regional peace and security*

Viet Nam wishes to give a briefing on and underline the East Sea issue.

Peace, stability, maritime security and safety, and freedom of navigation and aviation in the East Sea, which is the common interest of ASEAN, the region and the world are under a serious threat. Since May 1st 2014, China brazenly moved its deep-water drilling rig escorted by over 80 armed and military vessels and many airplanes to the Vietnamese waters and installed the rig at the location which is 80 miles deep into the Vietnamese continental shelf and exclusive economic zone prescribed by the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (1982 UNCLOS). China’s armed vessels escorting aggressively fired high-power water cannons at and intentionally rammed the Vietnamese public-service and civil ships, causing damage to many ships and injuring many people on board. This is the first time China brazenly brings and installs its drilling rig deep into the continental shelf and exclusive economic zone of an ASEAN country, which gravely violates the international law, the 1982 UNCLOS, and the Declaration on the conducts of Parties in the South China Sea (DOC) to which China is a signatory. This extremely dangerous action has been and is directly threatening peace, stability and maritime security and safety in the East Sea.
...
Prime Minister Website | PM Dung's Full Remarks at 24th ASEAN Summit - PM Dung's Full Remarks at 24th ASEAN Summit








*Southeast Asia Ministers Urge Self-Restraint on Sea Spat*
By Chris Blake May 12, 2014 3:17 PM GMT+0700

Southeast Asian nations called for self-restraint on territorial disputes in the South China Sea as tensions escalate over China’s pursuit of its claims to large swaths of the resource-rich region.

Leaders called on all parties to “refrain from taking actions that would further escalate tension,” in a statement issued at the end of the 10-member Association of Southeast Asian Nations meeting yesterday in Naypyidaw in Myanmar. They called for progress on a code of conduct that would seek to preserve freedom of navigation in the area, through which some of the world’s busiest shipping lanes run.

Disputes are mounting as Asian neighbors push back against Chinese moves to assert control over the maritime areas. Its placement of an oil rig near the disputed Paracel Islands led last week to clashes between Vietnamese and Chinese boats, while the Philippines detained 11 Chinese fisherman in a contested area. Vietnamese protested in several cities yesterday against China’s actions.

The escalation risks spilling over to separate territorial disputes between Japan and China in the East China Sea. Russia has recently stepped up air patrols around parts of North Asia, adding to the pressure.

Southeast Asia Ministers Urge Self-Restraint on Sea Spat - Bloomberg


----------



## ephone

China has been around for more than 2000 years and SCS has been China's fishing grounds for thousands of years. During the period when China was weak and invaded by foreign powers, any country could jump in and get a piece of China. Now we just have to get those back piece by piece, just like HongKong, Macau and etc.

For those bastards who can turn their guns to the people who have helped them for decades, I really have no interest wasting my time talking to people like you.

Just like what I have said, China will respond to threat properly. We are not afraid of any threats.You want to use frogmen, we will counter that with ours. You want to use any type of weapons, we will use ours that are better, faster and more accurate.

You want to intimidate us by putting a lot of boats there. We will put more, larger and faster ships there countering that as well.

You want to use planes, missiles for next move, well, we China has plenty.

At the end of day, nobody is going to be with you. Don't trust me, as I have said many times, let reality check the facts later.

BTW, there are plenty of results to be checked already for the past, which all said clearly, at the end of day, between China and vn, nobody wants to directly be against China for the sake of vn.

As for the closeness part, that is NOT even worthwhile for me to debate with you. You should have already known how absurd that is.



hongquan said:


> Why is the North have to keep all? What to keep and what not is their freedom. Now Chinese also even want to intervene that?
> 
> 
> If so, the Vietnamese even had been there longer, based on the fact at first, the ancient Chinese kingdoms was very far to the north, far from the South China Sea coast, why the ancient Viet kingdoms is always bordering with the sea.
> 
> 
> This just proves how violent and rude Chinese are. Always use violence power to threat others ) (This implies how illegal the occupation is)


----------



## hongquan

ephone said:


> By your lies,China has not assisted vn after 1972???



As pointed out, the support for VN is plainly a trade, not a help. Support to stop the battlefield outside the boundary, support to set a debt, support to separate VN from Soviet Union.
And after war, China demanded VN to pay a lot of rice for that support.


ephone said:


> Even further, concerns for U.S. is the only reason why China sent so much help to vn, risked fighting U.S. again not that long ago for korean war, to support vn???


Risked fighting US? Where? Any battlefield with US inside China territory? No. And the Nixon visit agreement is a fighting? )


ephone said:


> Why don't you tell me any other countries that have done that to protect a smaller country risking fighting an all-front war with one of the Superpower???



Protect? Who are the one who take advantage of a "big country" to force VN to separate North and South in Geneva 1954? Just the separation offered more chance for US to enter VN.


ephone said:


> Without China's protection, your northern vn would have been bombed to stone ages.


Without agreement between Nixon and Mao, there wouldn't be the bomb in 1972 to the North, or there wouldn't be the separation from Geneva 1954.



ephone said:


> China has been around for more than 2000 years and SCS has been China's fishing grounds for thousands of years.


At that time, ancient China was in the north of Yangtze river, ancient Vietnam has been always in the coastal and you claimed Chinese fished there? What a clueless argument )

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

_Thank you Indonesia! _



By Tito Summa Siahaan on 04:42 pm May 10, 2014
Category News, Politics
Tags: Asean, diplomacy, Marty Natalegawa, South China Sea








*Naypyidaw, Myanmar. *Foreign Minister Marty Natalegawa said on Saturday that Indonesia was “disappointed” with China’s decision to build oil rigs in the South China Sea, threatening regional stability.

“These kinds of acts should not set a legal precedence for the South China Sea,” he said, speaking after a meeting with* Vietnamese Foreign Minister* Pham Binh Min at the Asean Summit in Myanmar’s capital. “The issue can only be resolved through negotiations between related parties.”

China claims sovereignty over much of the resource-rich sea, home to vital shipping lanes, but Asean members including the Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia and Brunei have overlapping claims. Tensions are high due to a collision between Chinese and Vietnamese vessels in the disputed area last week after Chinese vessels were found installing rigs in an area claimed by Vietnam.

“The risk of an incident is very real. I hope the current meetings in Myanmar will reinforce further recognition of that fact,”Marty said yesterday.

Marty urged the Chinese government to acknowledge the sensitivity of the issue and exercise self restraint.

*“We are very concerned and disappointed by the acts of the Chinese government,” *he said.

He reiterated Indonesia’s neutral stance on the territorial claims.


Indonesia 'Disappointed' With China Over South China Sea Oil Rigs: Marty | The Jakarta Globe

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

unbelievable but true, greedy china claims a part of indonesia, too.
backing our stance will help indonesia in defending their territories.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Established_1965

One good advise, Never mess with Indonesians and Vietnamese -_-

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Established_1965

丶勿谓言之不预 said:


> In this dispute, China will be the winner. Vietnam is doomed to fail.



Thats what Uncle sam said during Vietnam War.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

I see Natuna Islands' EEZ overlaps with china's illegal claim "nine dash line"...




china's illegal claim SCS

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Raphael

Indonesia is the most influential member of ASEAN. If they really cared, why didn't they incorporate this into the ASEAN joint statement? In the end, no ASEAN statement made mention of China. The most important observation to make is that Indonesia took pains to stress its neutrality. Everything else about "concern", "feelings", or "disappointment" is just pathetic lip service to assuage a certain screaming baby. When a baby screams in your ear, you have to give up your candy; it's impossible to reason with it or calm it down.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Mr Second Back

Indonesia disappointed? Lovely, should China remind Indonesia what happened in 1998? Actrully, two countries' relation is quite good now and cooperation in many areas run very smooth. No need to do some "more" thing. "no zuo no die"


----------



## ephone

No need to talk with those ph bastards. Let's grab some ph fishermen and tit for tat. 

You grab one of ours and we will grab ten of yours. Let's see how long that will last. 

You want that, China government soon will give you that.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## mike2000

The obvious solution to this is simple: sign a joint exploration agreement and share of resources in the area with join patrols. This is the only solution i see here, short of a shooting war, which we all know serves nobody interests( Huh....maybe our governments in the west.). 
Well on a serious note, i don't know why china hasn't solved this issue with its ASEAN neighbors(the dispute with Japan is a different issue altogether). China should know that its Big country/world economic power now(and in a decade or two from now it will be a world military power) . so i think its in its interest to solve this issue by calling for a joint share/exploration between the various parties and it. This will be the best deal and will also create enough good will in the region. China should know that it is a big/influential country and as such its actions attracts more global scrutiny/attention than small/almost insignificant countries like Vietnam/Philippines who have no world or even regional influence. So this small countries can afford to create trouble and stand their ground even though they know they are outclass/stand no chance of a military victory. China has more to loose internationally. so will be good if China can solve its problems with its neighbors peacefully than through force/unilateral moves, this applies to Russia as well. 
However, Vietnam and Philippines should also know that its in their interest to solve this issue as soon as possible peacefully and put more effort not to over provoke China as well, because In a decade or two from now, China will be so powerful so much so that it will have less inclination to make small concessions/or even joint explorations. and I'm afraid by then, even the U.S/west would be incapable to say/do anything. After all, Big powers never fight directly, but through small proxies, and i'm sure small countries don't want to be at the receiving end. Especially Vietnam, since it has no real allies who will stand by it firmly when push comes to shove( Russia is more close and has more converging world interest/issues with china, so count them out), ASEAN countries have their own economic interests to protect(some don't even have any dispute in SCS),
At least the Philippines/japan has the U.S umbrella/defense treaty.  So Vietnam should thread carefully here, the only other option is ton that it can ally with the U.S/allow the U.S military base/sign a defence treaty(though it will anger its patron Russia). But then again you cant eat your cake and have it. sometimes you have to make sacrifices and choose sides..


----------



## xunzi

We want to remind our friend, Indonesia, to use careful words as the rig is within our Paracel's Continental shelf water that we own and administer. Under no circumstance should Indonesia be drag into Vietnam's dirty tactic to strengthen its own territorial claim. Remember Vietnam, not too long ago, scared all Southeast Asian states, including Indonesia, when they expanded into Cambodia during Soviet-back Vietnamese expansion. It took a global sanction, led by USA-China, to stop them. So this is not some "innocent" country as some believe.


----------



## xunzi

mike2000 said:


> The obvious solution to this is simple: sign a joint exploration agreement and share of resources in the area with join patrols. This is the only solution i see here, short of a shooting war, which we all know serves nobody interests( Huh....maybe our governments in the west.).
> Well on a serious note, i don't know why china hasn't solved this issue with its ASEAN neighbors(the dispute with Japan is a different issue altogether). China should know that its Big country/world economic power now(and in a decade or two from now it will be a world military power) . so i think its in its interest to solve this issue by calling for a joint share/exploration between the various parties and it. This will be the best deal and will also create enough good will in the region. China should know that it is a big/influential country and as such its actions attracts more global scrutiny/attention than small/almost insignificant countries like Vietnam/Philippines who have no world or even regional influence. So this small countries can afford to create trouble and stand their ground even though they know they are outclass/stand no chance of a military victory. China has more to loose internationally. so will be good if China can solve its problems with its neighbors peacefully than through force/unilateral moves, this applies to Russia as well.
> However, Vietnam and Philippines should also know that its in their interest to solve this issue as soon as possible peacefully and put more effort not to over provoke China as well, because In a decade or two from now, China will be so powerful so much so that it will have less inclination to make small concessions/or even joint explorations. and I'm afraid by then, even the U.S/west would be incapable to say/do anything. After all, Big powers never fight directly, but through small proxies, and i'm sure small countries don't want to be at the receiving end. Especially Vietnam, since it has no real allies who will stand by it firmly when push comes to shove( Russia is more close and has more converging world interest/issues with china, so count them out), ASEAN countries have their own economic interests to protect(some don't even have any dispute in SCS),
> At least the Philippines/japan has the U.S umbrella/defense treaty.  So Vietnam should thread carefully here, the only other option is ton that it can ally with the U.S/allow the U.S military base/sign a defence treaty(though it will anger its patron Russia). But then again you cant eat your cake and have it. sometimes you have to make sacrifices and choose sides..


The question is not whether there should be negotiation. It is a question of which style of negotiation. We said before that dispute should be resolved bilaterally between relevant parties but these troublemakers like Vietnam and Philippines, insisting on multilateral forum to resolve the dispute, such ASEAN-China settlement. What's fair in this situation in your opinion? Why should we negotiate with 3rd party in our bilateral dispute? You see, these Vietnamese and Filipino want to bring other nonrelevant parties, like ASEAN, to strength its claim so they get more leverage against us but we will not fall for that trick because we understand various ASEAN states have conflicting interest and some are good friend with us. There is no reason for them to risk antagonizing us over Vietnam and Phillipines' self-interest.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## xunzi

If this is how the Phillipine want to play this game by arresting fishermen to strengthen its claim in dispute area, then we will play.


----------



## rott

@Krueger, you seem pretty interested in Asian topics. Are you sure you're American or are you a Filipino under the pretense of an American flag? I see most of your topics are everything to do with the Philippines.


----------



## k_arura

Beast said:


> ASEAN countries are not interested in Vietnam and Pinoy BS. They are more interested in having more cooperation with China to help their own countries prosper. This is what I called, Good Government!


Thats what Hitler was counting on and in the beginning he did manage to cower down opposition. But ultimately? Rest is history



xunzi said:


> The question is not whether there should be negotiation. It is a question of which style of negotiation. We said before that dispute should be resolved bilaterally between relevant parties but these troublemakers like Vietnam and Philippines, insisting on multilateral forum to resolve the dispute, such ASEAN-China settlement. What's fair in this situation in your opinion? Why should we negotiate with 3rd party in our bilateral dispute? You see, these Vietnamese and Filipino want to bring other nonrelevant parties, like ASEAN, to strength its claim so they get more leverage against us but we will not fall for that trick because we understand various ASEAN states have conflicting interest and some are good friend with us. There is no reason for them to risk antagonizing us over Vietnam and Phillipines' self-interest.


But if they are smart they will stand united. Good thing Japan is in the middle of a sort of alliance/block with Vietnam and Manila



rott said:


>



We are. Its the world's business

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## UnChosen

Why would countries that have no territorial disputes with China risk their relatively friendly relationships for Vietnam and the Philippines?

Despite ASEAN the SE Asian countries do not benefit from each other all that much because they all sell mostly the same stuff and are close competitors with each other, with Singapore being the sole exception.


----------



## Rechoice

ephone said:


> You must be joking, right? South vn practiced capitalism, why didn't the north vn keep it???
> South vn despised the north vn, why didn't north vn get the hell out???
> Whether Zhenghe found those islands on his seven voyages is not that important. China has traded with South Asia, Indian continents, even Arabs long before Ming Dynasty. We have been there long before Zhenghe time.
> BTW, China officially never simply based her claims on Zhenghe at all. So do not use hearsays here.



You didn't understand what was the matter is discussed when you jumped in. After Geneva accords 1954 in Vietnam existed two states. What kind of social system has been applied in to each state in Vietnam: socialist or capitalist is not important. The Islands belong to South Vietnam was recognized by signing of both China and Nort Vietnam in Geneva Accords 1954.

Zheng He voyages is meaningless to claim of China over SCS. You could tell to other Chinese PDF members about that.


----------



## Krueger

*Tokyo may work with Hanoi, Manila on China territorial spats*

Staff Reporter 
2014-05-12







_
China's first deepwater drilling platform in the disputed South China Sea. (Photo/Xinhua)_

*Japan may be making moves towards an alliance with Vietnam and Philippines to resist China's increasingly aggressive stance in territorial disputes, reports Hong Kong newspaper Ming Pao.*

Japan's prime minister, Shinzo Abe, has said that Tokyo is willing to engage in dialogue with Beijing with no conditions. Last week, Yu Zhengsheng, one of China's top leaders, responded to the remarks, telling a group of Japanese legislators from the ruling Liberal Democratic Party that the dialogue would only be held after Japan recognizes China's sovereignty over the disputed Diaoyu islands (Senkaku to Japan, Diaoyutai to Taiwan) and when Abe stops visiting the controversial war-linked Yasukuni Shrine.

*Media reports in Japan said Yu threw cold water with his words and reported that the country's government has decided to strengthen cooperation with Vietnam, while also conducting extensive talks with the Philippines, two countries which have territorial disputes with China in the South China Sea. Meanwh*ile, Japan's foreign minister, Fumio Kishida, has said that territorial disputes between Beijng and Hanoi Sea are due to China's unilateral provocative maritime activities. China should state the basis of its actions to Vietnam and to the international community, the minister said.

Vietnamese authorities said three of its nationals were injured by Chinese water cannon after a clash between their respective coast guard vessels in disputed waters on Friday. It brings the total number of people injured during their recent conflict to nine, Ming Pao said.

Tensions between the two countries have intensified since May 2 after Vietnam attempted to halt China's drilling operations in waters to the south of Zhongjian (Triton) island in the Paracels, or Xisha islands in Chinese. Both countries accused the other of ramming their boats, with China also utilizing water cannon, the paper said.

Meanwhile, China is also engaged in a standoff with the Philippines after the country detained eleven Chinese fishermen for poaching sea turtles last week in the area of the disputed Spratly islands, also in the South China Sea. The fishermen face charges for violating animal protection laws and they could face at least 20 years in prison if found guilty. Philippine officials said the fishermen will remain in custody until prosecutors decide whether to press charges, though photos released by Philippine authorities show that a number of the captured sea turtles died and were kept in inhumane conditions.

China has demanded that its nationals be released, citing GPS coordinates that suggest the fishermen were still in Chinese territorial waters.

*Tokyo may work with Hanoi, Manila on China territorial spats*

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## TaiShang

The following two amazing comments by *Unnamed Sweeper Monk* and *capricorn* at CDF that I could not help but share since they directly refers to the OP posted above.

Please see the link to the posts here

By *Unnamed Sweeper Monk:*

How is this warning Beijing? Calling for a peaceful resolution is done all the time, and means less than you think. I could also spin it as warning Vietnam since Vietnam is trying to use force against the Chinese oil rig. China is also calling for a peaceful resolution. Does that mean its warning itself?

Call me when they actually condemn China rather than just calling for a peaceful resolution. Otherwise you are literally interpreting observations to fit into your hypothesis rather than making a hypothesis based on what is observed.

By* capricorn*
"Come on! How could you possibly misconstrue that communique as a WARNING?

1. The way I look at it, most ASEAN nations do not give a DAMN as they see Philippines as a mere OBEDIENT PROXY for the US and most of all it does NOT CONCERNED them. Even the Singapore's most respect statesman LKY does not agreed with what BS Aquino's regime in Philippines is doing?

2. IMO Vietnam is playing with FIRE. History would have been changed if a revolutionist leader like Dr Sun Yat Sen was born and had overthrown the Qing back in 19th Century, Japan and the other foreign Powers would not have infiltrated China and the WW2 holocaust in Asia would not have occurred and most IMPORTANTLY Vietnam would still be ANNAM, a province of China. When China as a prominent power in ASIA in history, ASIA is always peaceful e.g. the King of Siam used to send his army to attack the various districts in Malaya until he received a message (more like a decree) from the Emperor of China to stop doing so.

3. Although Japan invaded China in 1930's and committed all the atrocities and genocides, USA did not interfered because in their opinion as stated in one documentary, it is a case of "Chinese killing Chinese" meaning they considered Japanese as Chinese. It was only when their own interest was threatened e.g. Japan wanted to kick USA of of Asia when they sneak attack Pearl Harbour, USA reluctantly entered the arena. But they waited until the Chinese almost finished off the Japanese Imperial Army before they really joined. If Japan still have the Northern Chinese Manufacturing base, Japan would never SURRENDER.
(Am I digressing? Certainly not. I am merely trying to explain to many that if they think USA will fight a war with China over these islands that she knew from the start really belongs to China. These were word expressed in expediency and was never meant to be taken seriously.)

3. As I constantly says before, since ANNAM was given her INDEPENDENCE by the thieving FRENCH COLONIALIST, what makes you think China did not RESERVED the RIGHT to re-annex her as the former territory of ANNAM. Even stolen relics are now slowly recovered and returned back to the owner China today.

4. The re-emergence of China first as the REGIONAL POWER never surprises never ASEAN nations as they themselves were originally TRIBUTARY STATES of ancient Chinese empire for the longest time. Many nations today e.g. Philippines and India never existed as a single nation then e.g. India was a 470 districts continent ruled by many Maharaja, cheftains, etc. and the island of Philippines mainly occupied by monkeys and headhunting tribes. ANNAM was ruled by Chinese Kings who pledged their allegiance to the Emperor in China.

5. ASEAN recognized that need to sign a Sea Code of Conduct with China because they do not wanted a WAR with China that will disrupted their trades with their biggest TRADE PARTNER. Moreover Sea Code of Conduct will be more effective in deterring other claimants from aggression e.g. Philippines, Indonesian, Vietnamese patrols had been shooting at each others although the news were generally gagged and suppressed. Philippines intrusion into Sabah is well known."

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## bolo

I was hoping they said all parties involved with scs dispute fight it out, winner take all.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Sam1980

bolo said:


> I was hoping they said all parties involved with scs dispute fight it out, winner take all.



You want to have a war with 10 countries?


----------



## BoQ77

Secretary Kerry: May 2014 » Remarks With Singaporean Foreign Minister K. Shanmugam Before Their Meeting
*Remarks With Singaporean Foreign Minister K. Shanmugam Before Their Meeting*

Remarks
John Kerry
Secretary of State
Treaty Room
Washington, DC
May 12, 2014

Share on facebookShare on twitter 







*SECRETARY KERRY:* Good afternoon, everybody. My pleasure to welcome the foreign minister of Singapore, Foreign Minister Shanmugam. He is probably the first person, I think – one of the first people I talked to when I first became the Secretary, and we have had the pleasure of working in a number of different meetings and fora in the Asia Pacific, elsewhere.

I want to thank him and Singapore for their strong strategic partnership with the United States. There are many issues of concern where we think alike and we work in partnership. _*One of the most recent, obviously, is the Chinese challenge to the Paracel Islands. And we are particularly concerned – all nations that are engaged in navigation and traffic within the South China Sea, the East China Sea, are deeply concerned about this aggressive act. We want to see a code of conduct created; we want to see this resolved peacefully through the Law of the Sea, through arbitration, through any other means, but not direct confrontation and aggressive action.*_

In addition, we have enormous interests in terms of our economies and other interests. We work on counternarcotics, we work on counterterrorism, and particularly of great interest to both of us is the economic relationship. We have some 2,000 American businesses that are based in Singapore. Singapore is an enormous port, as everybody knows. It’s critical to the trade and commerce in the region. We have had a free trade agreement with Singapore for some period of time now, and that really was the precursor to the thinking about the TPP, Trans-Pacific Partnership, where again, Singapore has been deeply engaged, very involved in helping to shape it, showing leadership for which we are very appreciative.

In addition to that, we are engaged with the U.S.-Asia Pacific Comprehensive Energy Pact Partnership. And this is vital to our ability to be able to attract capital and fund renewable fuel projects, long-term clean energy projects for the future.

So I’m delighted to welcome the foreign minister here today, and we look forward to having a fruitful conversation. Thank you very much.

*FOREIGN MINISTER SHANMUGAM:* Thank you, Secretary Kerry. We have had – I met Secretary Kerry last year. We have had a great set of interactions. Singapore and U.S., we are old friends. Very strong partnership, very strong security relationship, and we have very similar ideas on a broad range of issues, as Secretary Kerry has said.

I want to talk to Secretary Kerry about both our bilateral issues – there are no issues, but how to take the partnership further, and also on regional issues, and also on the TPP, which Secretary Kerry spoke about. Today, 560,000 American jobs are dependent on exports to ASEAN alone, and ASEAN attracts nearly U.S. $200 billion of investments, the largest in all of Asia. One in three American jobs are dependent on exports to Asia. So the TPP has tremendous economic consequences for the U.S. and for our region, and I hope to speak with Secretary Kerry and others on the importance of making substantial progress, which is the President’s determination.

And on regional issues, on South China Sea issues, we have _*– I’ve just come from the ASEAN meeting. ASEAN foreign ministers issued a statement. We do not want tension. We want a code of conduct to be progressed with.*_ We need a situation where parties resolve their disputes and differences in a way that’s acceptable to all, and I’m sure we’ll have good discussions. Thank you.

*SECRETARY KERRY:* Thank you.

*FOREIGN MINISTER SHANMUGAM:* Thank you.


----------



## BoQ77

John Kerry in Vietnam with some key personnels ... for example : Us Ambassador in Vietnam David Shear
We believe in their long-term cooperation in strengthen Vietnam

January 13, 2014 · 1:06 am
*Ambassador David Shear: From Vietnam to DOD’s Asian and Pacific Security Affairs (APSA)*
_– Domani Spero _

Last month, President Obama announced his intent to nominate Ambassador David B. Shear to be the next Assistant Secretary of Defense for Asian and Pacific Security Affairs in the Department of Defense. The WH released the following brief bio:

Ambassador David B. Shear is the U.S. Ambassador to the Socialist Republic of Vietnam, a position he has held since 2011. From 2009 to 2011, he served as Deputy Assistant Secretary for East Asian and Pacific Affairs at the Department of State (DOS). Previously, he was the Director of the Office of Chinese and Mongolian Affairs in the Bureau of East Asian and Pacific Affairs at DOS. Mr. Shear joined the Foreign Service in 1982 and has served in Sapporo, Beijing, Tokyo, Kuala Lumpur, and Washington, D.C.

Mr. Shear received a B.A. from Earlham College and an M.A from the Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies, and has attended Waseda University, Taiwan National University, and Nanjing University.





Ambassador David Shear with Senator John McCain
US Embassy Vietnam: CODEL McCain – Jan 18-20, 2012

*APSA* is responsible for oversight of security cooperation programs and foreign military sales programs within the regions under its supervision. It looks like it covers East Asia, South & Southeast Asia and Afghanistan, Pakistan and Central Asia.

If confirmed. Ambassador Shear would succeed *Mark Lipper*t who was appointed to the position in 2011 and confirmed by the Senate in 2012. In May 2013, Mr. Limpert became the Chief of Staff to the Secretary of Defense. *Dr. Peter R. Lavoy* who served as the Acting Assistant Secretary of Defense for Asian and Pacific Security Affairs (APSA) is *reportedly* leaving this month. *Ambassador Derek J. Mitchell*, the current U.S. Ambassador to Burma was previously the Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary for APSA.






Mr. John Kerry in Ho Chi Minh city

and peaceful in Mekong river

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## TaiShang

Kerry and John McCain...

Now you rested your back on stony walls. 

How lucky you are! 

*Yes, you can trust them. *

*(Did not McCain fly some bombers over Vietnam back in the 60s? You suffer from serious false consciousness.)*


----------



## BoQ77

TaiShang said:


> Kerry and John McCain...
> 
> Now you rested your back on stony walls.
> 
> How lucky you are!
> 
> *Yes, you can trust them. *
> 
> *(Did not McCain fly some bombers over Vietnam back in the 60s? You suffer from serious false consciousness.)*



yeah. he was shot down and semidead when fallen into a water pond, Vietnamese saved his life until the date returning him to Usa in 1973. As I know he is the biggest supporter of Vietnam among US Senators. 
He also the one criticised China aggression earliest this month.

Secretary of State John Kerry is Vietnam veteran too, He is friendly to Vietnam. the first Us ambassador in Vietnam Peterson is Vietnam veteran too. all friendly.

China never understand Vietnam right? we never forget but know how to forgive to former enemy.


----------



## TaiShang

BoQ77 said:


> yeah. he was shot down and semidead when fallen into a water pond, Vietnamese saved his life until the date returning him to Usa in 1973.* As I know he is the biggest supporter of Vietnam among US Senators.
> *
> He also the one criticised China aggression earliest this month.
> 
> *Secretary of State John Kerry is Vietnam veteran too*, He is friendly to Vietnam. the first Us ambassador in Vietnam Peterson is Vietnam veteran too. all friendly.
> 
> China never understand Vietnam right? we never forget but know how to forgive to former enemy.




I think this is a text book case of Stockholm Syndrome.


----------



## BoQ77

NEW YORK (May 10, 2014) Adm. Harry B. Harris, Jr., commander of U.S. Pacific Fleet, speaks as a guest on Fox News' America's News HQ program, where he discussed the latest threats in the Asia-Pacific region and addressed America's rebalance, and the Navy's role in the whole-of-government effort.


----------



## kankan326

Sam1980 said:


> You want to have a war with 10 countries?


For us, it's more like 10 less developed provinces want to have a war with whole China.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Sam1980

kankan326 said:


> For us, it's more like 10 less developed provinces want to have a war with whole China.



War isn't good.


----------



## BoQ77

*China's Oil Rig Gambit: South China Sea Game-Changer?*
China’s placement of a state-owned oil rig in the South China Sea was unexpected, provocative and illegal.





By Carl Thayer
May 12, 2014

China’s placement of the giant state-owned oil rig HD-981 in Block 143 inside Vietnam’s Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ) on May 2 was unexpected, provocative and illegal.

This incident marks the first time China has placed one of its oil rigs in the EEZ of another state without prior permission. This was an unexpected move because China-Vietnam relations have been on an upward trajectory since the visit to Hanoi by Premier Li Keqiang in October. At that time, both sides indicated they had reached agreement to carry forward discussions on maritime issues. China’s move was also unexpected because Vietnam has not undertaken any discernible provocative action that would justify China’s unprecedented actions.

China’s deployment of the rig was provocative because the oil rig was accompanied by as many as 80 ships, including seven People’s Liberation Army Navy warships. When Vietnam dispatched Coast Guard vessels to defend its sovereign jurisdiction, China responded by ordering its ships to use water cannons and to deliberately ram the Vietnamese vessels. These actions were not only highly dangerous, but caused injuries to the Vietnamese crew.

China’s actions are illegal under international law. Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson Hua Chunying justified China’s actions by claiming the rig’s operations were in Chinese “territorial waters” and had nothing to do with Vietnam. In other words, China has adopted a position similar to Japan with regard to the Senkaku Islands by declaring there is no dispute with Vietnam.

China has placed itself in an inconsistent position. China has been provocative in using paramilitary ships and aircraft to challenge Japan’s assertion of administrative control over the Senkakus. China seeks to get Tokyo to admit that the Senkaku Islands are disputed. Yet Beijing has adopted Japan’s stance with respect to Block 143 by refusing to acknowledge that there is a legal dispute between China and Vietnam.

Chinese spokesperson Hua Chunying only presented a general statement, not a detailed legal argument in support of China’s actions. Her claim that the oil rig is in Chinese “territorial waters” lacks any foundation because there is no Chinese land feature within twelve nautical miles of Block 143 on which to base this assertion. Chinese statements refer to the Paracel Islands – and not Hainan Island – as the basis for its claim.

China’s lack of clarity has led academic specialists and regional analysts to speculate about the possible legal basis of China’s claim. In 1996 China issued baselines around the Paracel Islands, including Triton Island. Specialists argue that China’s claim could be based on the proximity of Triton, and its entitlement to a continental shelf and EEZ.

Other specialists point out that the 1996 baselines do not conform to Article 8 of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea and cannot be used to advance a legal claim over Block 143.

If the former line of argument is accepted, China’s hypothetical EEZ would overlap with the EEZ promulgated by Vietnam. This would constitute a legal dispute. International law requires the two parties to enter into provisional arrangement, refrain from the use of force or the threat of force, and take no action to upset the _status quo_. Clearly China’s placement of the oil rig and its 80 escorts in Block 143 constitutes a violation of international law.

Analysts are divided on the motivations and objectives of China’s current bout of aggressiveness. Three main interpretations have been put forth.

The first interpretation views the placement of the HD-981 rig in Block 143 as the inevitable response by China to Vietnam’s promulgation of the Law of the Sea in mid-2012. Prior to the adoption of this law by Vietnam’s National Assembly, China unsuccessfully brought intense diplomatic pressure on Hanoi not to proceed. Immediately after the law was adopted, the China National Offshore Oil Company (CNOOC) issued a tender for blocks in the South China Sea that overlapped with blocks issued by Vietnam within its EEZ.

According to this interpretation, the current controversy is the result of a decision by CNOOC to follow through and begin exploring these blocks. In CNOOC’s view, Block 143 fell within Chinese jurisdiction. In China’s view, commercial exploration activities in Block 143 would undercut Vietnam’s claims to sovereign jurisdiction.

The first interpretation is questionable given the sheer size and composition of the fleet of 80 ships and vessels that accompanied the oil rig. This was clearly no ordinary commercial venture but a pre-emptive move to prevent Vietnam from defending its EEZ.

Diplomatic sources in Beijing also report that CNOOC officials revealed they were ordered to place the rig in Block 143 despite their misgivings on commercial grounds. CNOOC officials pointed to the costs of keeping the rig on station until mid-August when oil exploration is scheduled to cease. Other observers point out that the prospects of finding commercial reserves of oil and gas in this area are quite low.

A second interpretation posits that China’s actions were in response to the operations by ExxonMobil in nearby blocks..

This interpretation seems unlikely. ExxonMobil has been operating in Block 119 from 2011. While China protested the award of an oil exploration contract to ExxonMobil, China has not stepped up its objections in recent months. It is also unclear how the placement of a Chinese oil rig in Block 143 would deter ExxonMobil from operating elsewhere.

Finally, China’s actions appear to be disproportional and very likely counterproductive. Block 143 does not directly affect U.S. interests. Chinese interference with ExxonMobil would be a direct challenge to the Obama administration’s statement that U.S. national interests included “unimpeded lawful commerce.”

The third interpretation, first publicized by _The Nelson Report_ (May 6, 2014), argues that China’s actions were pre-planned in response to President Barack Obama’s recent visit to Japan, South Korea, Malaysia and the Philippines. During his visit, President Obama publicly opposed the settlement of territorial disputes by intimidation and coercion.

China was angered by the Obama administration’s prior criticism of China’s nine-dash line claim to the South China Sea and U.S. support for the Philippines’ decision to request international arbitration to settle its territorial dispute with China. In addition, China was outraged by President Obama’s public declaration of support of Japan and its administration of the Senkaku islands as well as President Obama’s declaration that U.S. alliance commitment to the Philippines were ironclad.

In sum, the third interpretation argues that China chose to directly confront the main premises of the Obama administration’s rebalance to Asia. China chose to expose the gap between Obama’s rhetoric and U.S. capability to respond to China’s assertion of its sovereignty claims.

Some analysts who support the third interpretation argue that China has taken heart from President Obama’s inability to respond effectively to the crises in Syria and the Ukraine. Therefore China manufactured the oil rig crisis to demonstrate to regional states that the United States is a “paper tiger.”

The third interpretation has plausibility. But it begs the question of why Vietnam was the focus for this crisis. Also, China’s actions could prove counter-productive, coming on the eve of a summit meeting in Myanmar of the heads of government of the ten states comprising the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN).

On March 18, China and ASEAN held the tenth joint working group meeting on the Implementation of the Declaration on Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea (DOC) in Singapore. This was followed up by the seventh ASEAN-China Senior Officials’ Meeting on the Implementation of the DOC in Pattaya, Thailand on April 21. While progress has been slow, there were some encouraging signs that confidence building projects under the DOC might be developed. As one ASEAN diplomat put it to the author, “the journey [consultations with China] is more important than the destination [achieving a binding COC].”

China’s deployment of the oil rig and accompanying fleet ensured that the South China Sea would be a hot button issue at the ASEAN Summit. ASEAN Foreign Ministers issued a stand alone statement on May 10 expressing “their serious concerns over the on-gong developments in the South China Sea, which increased tensions in the area.” It is significant that a separate statement was issued on the South China Sea. This statement implicitly expresses support for Vietnam and lays the foundation for a similar statement by ASEAN heads of government/state.

The Foreign Ministers’ statement did not specifically mention China by name but it reiterated ASEAN standard policy on the South China Sea. The statement urged the parties concerned to act in accord with international law, including the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, to exercise self-restraint, avoid actions that could undermine peace and stability, and to resolve disputes by peaceful means without resorting to the threat or use of force.

The ASEAN Foreign Ministers’ Statement called on all parties to fully and effectively implement the DOC. The Statement also called for the need for “expeditiously working towards an early conclusion of the Code of Conduct in the South China Sea.”

The ASEAN Foreign Ministers’ Statement did not mention China by name in deference to Beijing. But the Statement may be read as a shift in the views by individual members of ASEAN that territorial disputes involving the Paracel Islands and its surrounding waters are a bilateral matter between China and Vietnam.

An endorsement of the Statement by the Foreign Ministers on the South China Sea by the ASEAN Summit will provide political and diplomatic cover for the United States and other maritime nations to express their concern.

_Japan’s Prime Minister Shinzo Abe has already come out in public in support of Vietnam. The U.S. State Department issued a statement characterizing Chinese actions “provocative.” More importantly, Assistant Secretary of State Danny Russel just visited Vietnam on a scheduled trip. He will be able to take his first-hand assessment back to Washington to shape the Obama Administration’s response._


_Beneath the ASEAN diplomatic surface, however, China’s actions are likely to stoke anxieties already held by the Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia, Singapore, and Indonesia. These states will seek to shore up their own maritime capabilities and to seek reassurance of support from the United States and other maritime powers such as Japan, Australia, and India._

Vietnam has reiterated its determination to respond to Chinese tactics of ramming its vessels. The current stand-off between Chinese and Vietnamese vessels in the waters around the CNOOC oil rig therefore holds the potential for an accident, a miscalculation, or the use of deadly force.

It is more likely that China and Vietnam will manage this affair by preventing matters from escalating to the extent that armed force is used. As of May 2, China and Vietnam have held six face-to-face diplomatic meetings in Beijing and three meetings in Hanoi between the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Chinese Embassy officials.

Vietnam has requested that China receive a high-level special envoy. Diplomatic rumor has it that the special envoy will be a member of the Vietnam Communist Party (VCP) Politburo. Vietnam has resorted to sending special envoys to Beijing on two occasions in recent years and both visits resulted in a lowering of tension.

On May 8, the VCP Central Committee opened a long-planned executive session. This will provide Vietnam’s leaders with an opportunity to review the current crisis and to work out an effective political and diplomatic strategy to deal with China. Consensus on this issue will give the special envoy authority to speak on behalf of the Hanoi leadership.

When China first announced the deployment of its oil rig, it stated that its operations would terminate on August 15. This provides plenty of time for both sides to orchestrate and manage the confrontation in Block 143 and provide a face saving means for ending the confrontation.


----------



## Krueger

*Ex-Chinese general wants retaliation vs Philippines*
Posted as of 05/12/2014 




_Retired Chinese PLA Major General Luo Yuan._

*MANILA - A retired Chinese military general known for his hardline views urged Beijing on Monday to retaliate against the Philippines over the arrest of 11 Chinese fishermen caught poaching marine turtles near Palawan.*

Retired People's Liberation Army (PLA) Major General Luo Yuan, in an *online commentary*, said Beijing should respond "tooth for tooth, eye for eye, to take 'further measures.'"

He said despite China's demands, the Philippine government has refused to release the fishermen and their ship and even brought them to court.

*"Perhaps the Philippines simply did not take our warnings seriously," he said.*

He specifically mentioned *Ayungin Shoal*, where Philippine Marines are deployed, as a pressure point that China can use.

"First, we should arrest illegal invaders (who) occupy our territory. [Ayungin Shoal is] not no man's land, not [a] sanctuary, but [a] tourist spot. It is our territory. We have actual jurisdiction over it," Luo said.

*He said China should order Philippine troops to immediately leave the shoal.*

"Otherwise, we will have a variety of means 'to clear' [the area]," Luo said. "I think the international community should understand."

Philippine Marines on board the BRP Sierra Madre are guarding Ayungin, which is also called the Second Thomas Shoal. The ship was grounded on the shoal as a way for Philippines to reiterate its claim on the area.

Last March 29, Chinese Coast Guard ships tried to block a Philippine civilian vessel carrying food and water for the soldiers stationed at the BRP Sierra Madre.

Luo also said Beijing should use various "political, economic, diplomatic, legal" means to pressure Manila. He said this includes wielding China's clout and influence in the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN).

Luo said if indeed the Chinese fishermen were poaching marine turtles, the incident should be handled by China and not the Philippines.

*He claimed that Manila cannot arrest the fishermen under the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea and the ASEAN Declaration on Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea.*

"Even in the disputed waters you have no right to arrest people," said Luo, who is currently vice-president of a Beijing-based think-tank consisting of retired military officers.

"We have maintained a great deal of restraint and patience. [The] Philippines invaded our eight reefs, and is now arresting our fishermen. When are we going to fight back?" he said.

He also warned the United States against interfering.

*Luo said US treaties with Spain, the United Kingdom and the Philippines do not include the disputed maritime areas.*

In 2012, Luo urged China to launch a "*decisive action*" against the Philippines to reinforce Beijing's claim on the disputed Scarborough Shoal.

Yuan said China has not abandoned the idea of "war at all costs" to protect its interests.

"'Peaceful rise and 'period of strategic opportunity' preclude war," said Luo, who has been described by Western media as "hawkish" for his ultranationalist views.

"It is incorrect to assume that China will completely rule out military action in any event during this 'period of strategic opportunity,'" he said, referring to Beijing's dispute with Manila.

"To safeguard our sovereign and territory rights, we will never hesitate to face up to any military challenge," he added.

*He also believes that Filipinos won't go up against China's military firepower.*

*"Also, considering the relative military strengths of China and the Philippines, the Filipino people can judge for themselves the wisdom or otherwise of their government's decision to take this stand against China," he warned.*

China currently has de facto control over Scarborough Shoal.

While his comments do not represent official policy and the PLA is only serving at the beck and call of China's Communist Party, officer-analysts like Luo have been given some leeway to strike a tougher tone in their comments, according to a report from Reuters.

Ex-Chinese general wants retaliation vs Philippines | ABS-CBN News


----------



## ViXuyen

This clown is a notorious "draft dodger" who used family influence to avoid being sent to the front in the 1979 war with Vietnam....yet this same clown constantly advocating for a war with Vietnam LOL


----------



## Fukuoka

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/12/world/asia/vietnam.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&_r=0


----------



## Rechoice

good opportunity to condemn China.


----------



## ViXuyen



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## xunzi

*He claimed that Manila cannot arrest the fishermen under the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea and the ASEAN Declaration on Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea.*

"Even in the disputed waters you have no right to arrest people," said Luo, who is currently vice-president of a Beijing-based think-tank consisting of retired military officers.


--------
If this is true, we need to react quickly and decisively against Phillipines provocative step.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

Raphael said:


> Indonesia is the most influential member of ASEAN. If they really cared, why didn't they incorporate this into the ASEAN joint statement? In the end, no ASEAN statement made mention of China. The most important observation to make is that Indonesia took pains to stress its neutrality.
> 
> Everything else about "concern", "feelings", or "disappointment" is just pathetic lip service to assuage a certain screaming baby. When a baby screams in your ear, you have to give up your candy; it's impossible to reason with it or calm it down.


you don´t get it, as usual.

ASEAN acts on consensus. so even if 1 member rejects the proposal to sharply critize China, the other 9 states can´t force the proposal to become public.

I assume, in the summit, there are 3 different opinions:

Vietnam, Singapore, Philippines, Malaysia, Indonesia, Laos and Brunei: anti-China
Burma and Cambodia: neutral
Thailand: pro-China

so the 10 member bloc agreed to soften the tone as consensus.


----------



## jandk

WHy isn't India a part of ASEAN?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

ephone said:


> China has given vn hundreds of billions aids, well, since you tell me China demand you to pay back. Give me the official figures how much you have paid back to China till today???
> 
> Risked fighting US: your fxxked government did not dare to tell you that.
> Simply from: China–United States relations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> The PRC's involvement in the Vietnam War began in 1949, when mainland China was reunified under communist rule. The Communist Party of China provided material and technical support to the Vietnamese communists. In the summer of 1962, Mao Zedong agreed to supply Hanoi with 90,000 rifles and guns free of charge. After the launch of the American "Rolling Thunder" mission, China sent anti-aircraft units and engineering battalions to North Vietnam to repair the damage caused by American bombing, rebuild roads and railroads, and perform other engineering work, freeing North Vietnamese army units for combat in the South. Between 1965 and 1970, over 320,000 Chinese soldiers fought the Americans alongside the North Vietnamese Army, reaching a peak in 1967, when 170,000 troops served in combat. China lost 1,446 troops in the Vietnam War. The US lost 58,159 in combat against the NVA, Vietcong, and their allied forces, including the Chinese.
> 
> I do not even know how many Chinese soldiers have donated their lives during vn's struggle against french and then the u.s. However, if they could come back to life and know what vn has done to China, all of them will regret what they have done since they have given up their lives to these bunch of ingrateful bastards. In reality, tons of aids were sent to northern vn, way beyond some guessing figures U.S. intelligence could gather.
> 
> Without China, vn would have already invaded northern vn long ago.
> China Contributed Substantially to Vietnam War Victory, Claims Scholar | Wilson Center
> http://www.chinacenter.net/docs/Garver_parameters.pdf
> 
> Some u.s. generals then called China threat to send ground troops bluffing. However, at the end of the day, U.S. dare not to invade northern vn and did not send any ground troops into northern vn for invasion at all.
> 
> Acient China in Northern Yangtze river???
> This is China's Qin map: The Qin Dynasty Map - Ancient China Maps - China Highlights
> This is China's Han map:
> http://www.mitchellteachers.org/Wor...lum/Images/handynasty/maphandynasty_large.jpg
> 
> Qin United China and Han inherited it. For your information, even Han empire started before BC 200. You dumb axx did not know that??? That was more than 2300 years ago.
> 
> Northern Yangtze river???
> 
> For vn, its earlier ruler was even Chinese, a Qin general named Zhao Tuo: Zhao Tuo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


you are not only a clown but a liar.

congrat

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Beidou2020

Major General Luo Yuan is one of my favourites. He is a true Chinese patriot.


----------



## Rahul9090

India has signaled support for Vietnam in its latest flare-up with China over their competing territorial claims in the South China Sea.

On May 7 Hanoi charged that Chinese vessels had recently rammed several of its ships in an oil-rich zone claimed by both countries. Almost a week later the situation remains extremely tense, with both countries deploying large numbers of ships in the waters off the Paracel Islands.

India’s support is cautiously-worded. Nevertheless, it is inflammatory under conditions where Washington has been encouraging its East Asian allies, including Japan, the Philippines, and Vietnam, to press their claims against Beijing as part of its strategy to isolate and militarily encircle China.

Hanoi, for its part, is seeking to curry favor with New Delhi so as to further draw India into its dispute with China.

The latest flare up of tensions between Hanoi and Beijing began when the Chinese National Offshore Oil Corporation started setting up a $1 billion oil drilling rig near the Paracel Islands. The islands are claimed by both countries, but occupied by China.

While Vietnam has accused Chinese ships of ramming its vessels and using water cannon to drive them off, China has counter-charged that its vessels were rammed more than 171 times by armed Vietnamese vessels between May 3 and 7.

Two days after Hanoi made a very public protest about the events in the waters off the Paracel Islands, an Indian External Affairs Ministry spokesperson voiced New Delhi’s “concern” over “recent developments in the South China Sea.”

In what clearly were vetted remarks, the spokesperson told a media briefing that India “maintains that freedom of navigation in the South China Sea should not be impeded”, and is urging “cooperation” so as to ensure “security of sea-lanes and strengthening of maritime security.” Calling the “maintenance of peace, stability, growth and prosperity in the region” vital for “the international community,” the Indian spokesperson urged the dispute be resolved “through peaceful measures in accordance with universally recognized principles of international law.”

The Indian diplomat’s statement avoided mention of either China or Vietnam. However, its references to “freedom of navigation,” “security of sea lanes,” interests of “international community” and “international law” echo the US’s hypocritical stance on the disputes China has with its East Asian neighbours. While feigning neutrality and support for international law, Washington has been encouraging China’s neighbours to rake up their territorial disputes in the South China and East China Seas, and then paint Beijing as the aggressor.

With the maritime territorial disputes serving as a convenient pretext, Washington has recently dramatically increased its military cooperation with Japan and the Philippines—longstanding allies—and it is aggressively courting Vietnam. Last week, the Obama administration sent to the US Senate the proposed text of a nuclear cooperation agreement with Hanoi.

India, through the state-owned oil company ONGC Videsh (OVL), is already collaborating with Vietnam in parts of the South China Sea that China claims as its own and doing so over Beijing’s express objections.

In 2006, Hanoi awarded OVL oil-exploration rights to two blocks in disputed territory and while one was later abandoned as unviable, OVL signed a new oil exploration agreement with Vietnam last November.

China’s moves to initiate oil drilling off the disputed Paracel Islands come just days after Hanoi offered OVL two more oil exploration blocks.

India’s navy, which now routinely carries out joint exercises with the Pentagon, has recently become active in the South China Sea. In December 2012, India’s then chief of the navy, Admiral D.K. Joshi, publicly proclaimed that India’s navy was preparing for possible action in the South China Sea. “Are we preparing for it,” he asked. “The short answer is yes.”

In the wake of the latest flare up with China, Hanoi is intensifying its efforts to enmesh India in the conflict.

In a round table meeting in Melbourne sponsored by the Diplomatic Academy of Vietnam (DAV) on May 9, DAV President, Ambassador Dang Dinh Quy, denounced “Chinese assertiveness,” accused the Chinese navy of “acting without provocation,” and charged that it was doing so on orders of “the Chinese leadership at the highest level.”

Notwithstanding the US’s provocative anti-China stance, Quy went on to complain that the Obama administration has shown insufficient “clarity” on Vietnam’s dispute with China, then added, “That is why we want India should rise quickly. We have great expectations from India.”

Responding to Quy’s remark, Amitabh Mattoo, the inaugural director of the Australia-India Institute and a stalwart of India’s national-security establishment, lashed out against China.

“Chinese assertiveness,” declared Mattoo, “is bordering on aggressiveness.” He termed Beijing’s behavior “short sighted and counter-productive.”

Mattoo has served as foreign policy advisor to both Congress Party and BJP-led Indian governments. He was a member of India's National Security Council's Advisory Board under Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee and a member of the task force on Global Strategic Developments struck by the current Indian Prime Minister, Manmohan Singh.

Mattoo is far from alone in calling for India, which has a longstanding territorial dispute with China and is competing with it for oil and other resources, to take a more aggressive stand against China and do so in concert with Washington.

In an article titled “Chinese expansionism continues unabated” published in the May 7 issue of the_Times of India_, S.D. Pradhan complained that the “Chinese policy of aggrandizement in its neighbouring areas” is “raising the serious risk of a conflict in the South China Sea.” He contended that China’s “aggressive behaviour towards Vietnam” was part of a “grand strategy” directed against Japan and India and advocated India “join hands” with the “US, Japan, ASEAN, Russia, [and] Australia … in pressurising China to give up its aggressive policies in the neighbouring countries.”

“They should be prepared,” Pradhan said, “to impose consequences on China when it violates international laws and norms,” although he refrained from spelling out what “penalties” he envisaged.

Even more than Mattoo, Pradhan is a voice of India’s national security establishment. The positions he has previously held include chairman of the Joint Intelligence Committee, deputy national security adviser, and chairman of the Task Force on Intelligence Mechanism, which reviewed the functioning and interaction of India’s various intelligence agencies.

India has formed a “global strategic partnership” with the US and otherwise tilted its foreign policy toward Washington since the beginning of the century. Nonetheless, large sections of India’s corporate elite and military-intelligence establishment have criticized the outgoing Congress Party-led government for not aligning more closely with Washington as a purported “insurance policy” against China. The reality is US imperialism is determined to make India the third pillar of its Indo-Pacific anti-China strategy, alongside Japan and Australia, through a combination of threats and inducements.

India signals support for Vietnam in South China Sea dispute - World Socialist Web Site

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Soryu

* China must respect international laws*

Very good video with eng-dub for anyone love peace and want to see the truth. Multi- subtitle is active with Chinese, English and Vietnamese.


----------



## Soryu

* China must respect international laws*

Very good video with eng-dub for anyone love peace and want to see the truth. Multi- subtitle is active with Chinese, English and Vietnamese.


----------



## GR!FF!N

China issued (veiled) warning no-SCS75321897

South China Sea ‘not a concern,’ China tells India - The Hindu

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## GR!FF!N

"Retired" and "Senile" are the words goes hand in hand. 

I LMAOed after reading this line...




Krueger said:


> He claimed that Manila cannot arrest the fishermen under the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea and the ASEAN Declaration on Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea.




UNCLOS and DOC probably doesn't even applicable for crazy demands like "9 dotted line".

read this...(on Vietnam)

The location of the rig is controversial because while Vietnam insists that it is in disputed waters, China claims it is not. If Vietnam is correct, which all the evidence suggests it is, then China's unilateral action is in violation of both the letter and spirit of its international commitments, including the UN Convention on the Law of the Seas (UNCLOS) and the Declaration of Conduct for Parties in the South China Sea.

China 'determined' to change status quo in South China Sea | Asia | DW.DE | 08.05.2014

also read why UNCLOS says China's claim is invalid.


The UNCLOS states three different types of maritime features that allow for the waters surrounding a country to be claimed as part of its territory.

The first are “Islands” defined as “a naturally formed area of land, surrounded by water and above water at high tide,” Jardeleza said.

Islands, such as Luzon, entitles the country that owns it to a 12 nautical mile (approximately 22 kilometers) territorial sea from the coastline with which it has full sovereignty. A country can exclude foreign entities from its territorial sea.

The island is also entitled to a 200 nm (approximately 370 km) exclusive economic zone (EEZ), which gives the country the sole right to exploit the resources within it such as fish and also mineral and oil reserves, if any.

The second are “rocks or reefs” that are mostly below water but have rocky protrusions above water during high tide. The important point under UNCLOS states that a maritime feature is a rock if “it cannot sustain human habitation or economic life on its own,” Jardeleza said.

Such mostly submerged features are entitled to only a 12 nm territorial sea and no EEZ. Examples of such are Bajo de Masinloc, also known as Panatag shoal or Scarborough shoal, which lies 120 nm off the coast of Zambales province.

The shoal is a submerged coral reef with a rocky protrusion that is three meters above the water during high tide. It cannot be classified as an island because it cannot sustain economic activity or humans on its own, Jardeleza said.

The third type of maritime features called “low tide elevation” are submerged rocks and reefs that are not visible above water. This type of maritime feature is not entitled to any territorial sea or EEZ.


UNCLOS explained: Why China’s claims in South China Sea are invalid | Inquirer Global Nation

about UNCLOS and DOC,shouldn't China become a party of the arbitration claim Philippines lodged in International court of Arbitration if they have so much confidence on its stance??why so much effort is needed to bypass that??fight the case and emerge as victorious just like India did against Pakistan countless times and against BD-Myanmar which is still to be decided.


----------



## Viet

India is too soft. time to side with Vietnam in this fight.
India shall provide us destroyers and missiles on credit.


----------



## pigtaker

India's only strthenth's is their big mouth, nothing more. Vets are desperate to look for a new daddy after ussr, no matter whom. Hilarious. Even their same-boat Phillo keep quite this time, weird.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## NiceGuy

GR!FF!N said:


> China issued (veiled) warning no-SCS75321897
> 
> South China Sea ‘not a concern,’ China tells India - The Hindu


We can send our soldiers to India to stop China invasion in land border, Indian bro can send more ship to help us to kick China oil rig out 

Times for Indian bro to show ur muscle to China. Viva VietNam- India

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## VietHome

xunzi said:


> Who care about India. LOL Our biggest threat is our friend the USA. I bet if we give our friend, the USA a piece of the pie, they will shut up as usual. LOL


Sure thing, bud.


----------



## BoQ77

_*Teach us using water cannon first, then teach us how to use Arleigh Burke-class destroyer later.*

Damage Controlman 3rd Class Endalk Hailu *demonstrates hose handling techniques to a member of the Vietnamese People’s Navy aboard the Arleigh Burke-class guided-missile destroyer USS John S. McCain (DDG 56) during Naval Engagement Activity Vietnam. *Approximately 400 U.S. Navy Sailors and civilian mariners are participating in the engagement. 

(U.S Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 1st Class Jay C. Pugh)_


----------



## BoQ77

Go retired gen. to do what you can imagine ...
PLAN doesn't dare to do that in real, because Phil in protection umbrella of US now ... LOL


----------



## NiceGuy

BoQ77 said:


> _*Teach us using water cannon first, then teach us how to use Arleigh Burke-class destroyer later.*
> 
> Damage Controlman 3rd Class Endalk Hailu *demonstrates hose handling techniques to a member of the Vietnamese People’s Navy aboard the Arleigh Burke-class guided-missile destroyer USS John S. McCain (DDG 56) during Naval Engagement Activity Vietnam. *Approximately 400 U.S. Navy Sailors and civilian mariners are participating in the engagement.
> 
> (U.S Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 1st Class Jay C. Pugh)_


Yeah,we got new ' toys' for spraying game with China, I love our new 'babies' .


----------



## Viet

pigtaker said:


> India's only strthenth's is their big mouth, nothing more. Vets are desperate to look for a new daddy after ussr, no matter whom. Hilarious. Even their same-boat Phillo keep quite this time, weird.


bullshit. India has strength and weakness.

we are midst of the historic struggle against evil China. I am pretty sure, If Vietnam falls, India will be the next domino that falls.
Vietnam is the Good, while China the Evil. Helping Vietnam will help India.

Don´t forget you have territorial dispute with the Indians, too. Your greed is without limit.

if Vietnam wins this encounter with Indian support, the children of both countries will read it in history books.

Time for India and other friends to join us in our historic battle that will decide the future of Asia.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## NiceGuy

Dear Old General , pls dont make Filipinos get more angry with u guys ...more Chinese will get caught if u keep bullying ur neighbors


----------



## peaceful

Viet said:


> bullshit. India has strength and weakness.
> 
> we are midst of the historic struggle against evil China. I am pretty sure, If Vietnam falls, India will be the next domino that falls.
> Vietnam is the Good, while China the Evil. Helping Vietnam will help India.
> 
> Don´t forget you have territorial dispute with the Indians, too. Your greed is without limit.
> 
> if Vietnam wins this encounter with Indian support, the children of both countries will read it in history books.
> 
> Time for India and other friends to join us in our historic battle that will decide the future of Asia.



india's capital is within 300km from our border. that ensures the stability of the region. the same can be said for your nation. 

"if Vietnam wins this encounter"? tell me how?


----------



## NKVD

Rahul9090 said:


> India has signaled support for Vietnam in its latest flare-up with China over their competing territorial claims in the South China Sea.
> 
> On May 7 Hanoi charged that Chinese vessels had recently rammed several of its ships in an oil-rich zone claimed by both countries. Almost a week later the situation remains extremely tense, with both countries deploying large numbers of ships in the waters off the Paracel Islands.
> 
> India’s support is cautiously-worded. Nevertheless, it is inflammatory under conditions where Washington has been encouraging its East Asian allies, including Japan, the Philippines, and Vietnam, to press their claims against Beijing as part of its strategy to isolate and militarily encircle China.
> 
> Hanoi, for its part, is seeking to curry favor with New Delhi so as to further draw India into its dispute with China.
> 
> The latest flare up of tensions between Hanoi and Beijing began when the Chinese National Offshore Oil Corporation started setting up a $1 billion oil drilling rig near the Paracel Islands. The islands are claimed by both countries, but occupied by China.
> 
> While Vietnam has accused Chinese ships of ramming its vessels and using water cannon to drive them off, China has counter-charged that its vessels were rammed more than 171 times by armed Vietnamese vessels between May 3 and 7.
> 
> Two days after Hanoi made a very public protest about the events in the waters off the Paracel Islands, an Indian External Affairs Ministry spokesperson voiced New Delhi’s “concern” over “recent developments in the South China Sea.”
> 
> In what clearly were vetted remarks, the spokesperson told a media briefing that India “maintains that freedom of navigation in the South China Sea should not be impeded”, and is urging “cooperation” so as to ensure “security of sea-lanes and strengthening of maritime security.” Calling the “maintenance of peace, stability, growth and prosperity in the region” vital for “the international community,” the Indian spokesperson urged the dispute be resolved “through peaceful measures in accordance with universally recognized principles of international law.”
> 
> The Indian diplomat’s statement avoided mention of either China or Vietnam. However, its references to “freedom of navigation,” “security of sea lanes,” interests of “international community” and “international law” echo the US’s hypocritical stance on the disputes China has with its East Asian neighbours. While feigning neutrality and support for international law, Washington has been encouraging China’s neighbours to rake up their territorial disputes in the South China and East China Seas, and then paint Beijing as the aggressor.
> 
> With the maritime territorial disputes serving as a convenient pretext, Washington has recently dramatically increased its military cooperation with Japan and the Philippines—longstanding allies—and it is aggressively courting Vietnam. Last week, the Obama administration sent to the US Senate the proposed text of a nuclear cooperation agreement with Hanoi.
> 
> India, through the state-owned oil company ONGC Videsh (OVL), is already collaborating with Vietnam in parts of the South China Sea that China claims as its own and doing so over Beijing’s express objections.
> 
> In 2006, Hanoi awarded OVL oil-exploration rights to two blocks in disputed territory and while one was later abandoned as unviable, OVL signed a new oil exploration agreement with Vietnam last November.
> 
> China’s moves to initiate oil drilling off the disputed Paracel Islands come just days after Hanoi offered OVL two more oil exploration blocks.
> 
> India’s navy, which now routinely carries out joint exercises with the Pentagon, has recently become active in the South China Sea. In December 2012, India’s then chief of the navy, Admiral D.K. Joshi, publicly proclaimed that India’s navy was preparing for possible action in the South China Sea. “Are we preparing for it,” he asked. “The short answer is yes.”
> 
> In the wake of the latest flare up with China, Hanoi is intensifying its efforts to enmesh India in the conflict.
> 
> In a round table meeting in Melbourne sponsored by the Diplomatic Academy of Vietnam (DAV) on May 9, DAV President, Ambassador Dang Dinh Quy, denounced “Chinese assertiveness,” accused the Chinese navy of “acting without provocation,” and charged that it was doing so on orders of “the Chinese leadership at the highest level.”
> 
> Notwithstanding the US’s provocative anti-China stance, Quy went on to complain that the Obama administration has shown insufficient “clarity” on Vietnam’s dispute with China, then added, “That is why we want India should rise quickly. We have great expectations from India.”
> 
> Responding to Quy’s remark, Amitabh Mattoo, the inaugural director of the Australia-India Institute and a stalwart of India’s national-security establishment, lashed out against China.
> 
> “Chinese assertiveness,” declared Mattoo, “is bordering on aggressiveness.” He termed Beijing’s behavior “short sighted and counter-productive.”
> 
> Mattoo has served as foreign policy advisor to both Congress Party and BJP-led Indian governments. He was a member of India's National Security Council's Advisory Board under Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee and a member of the task force on Global Strategic Developments struck by the current Indian Prime Minister, Manmohan Singh.
> 
> Mattoo is far from alone in calling for India, which has a longstanding territorial dispute with China and is competing with it for oil and other resources, to take a more aggressive stand against China and do so in concert with Washington.
> 
> In an article titled “Chinese expansionism continues unabated” published in the May 7 issue of the_Times of India_, S.D. Pradhan complained that the “Chinese policy of aggrandizement in its neighbouring areas” is “raising the serious risk of a conflict in the South China Sea.” He contended that China’s “aggressive behaviour towards Vietnam” was part of a “grand strategy” directed against Japan and India and advocated India “join hands” with the “US, Japan, ASEAN, Russia, [and] Australia … in pressurising China to give up its aggressive policies in the neighbouring countries.”
> 
> “They should be prepared,” Pradhan said, “to impose consequences on China when it violates international laws and norms,” although he refrained from spelling out what “penalties” he envisaged.
> 
> Even more than Mattoo, Pradhan is a voice of India’s national security establishment. The positions he has previously held include chairman of the Joint Intelligence Committee, deputy national security adviser, and chairman of the Task Force on Intelligence Mechanism, which reviewed the functioning and interaction of India’s various intelligence agencies.
> 
> India has formed a “global strategic partnership” with the US and otherwise tilted its foreign policy toward Washington since the beginning of the century. Nonetheless, large sections of India’s corporate elite and military-intelligence establishment have criticized the outgoing Congress Party-led government for not aligning more closely with Washington as a purported “insurance policy” against China. The reality is US imperialism is determined to make India the third pillar of its Indo-Pacific anti-China strategy, alongside Japan and Australia, through a combination of threats and inducements.
> 
> India signals support for Vietnam in South China Sea dispute - World Socialist Web Site


Old Policy Can change by New Elected Regime
Modi will move India closer to Japan and China, US expert on Sangh Parivar says | Page 2


----------



## Viet

peaceful said:


> india's capital is within 300km from our border. that ensures the stability of the region. the same can be said for your nation.
> 
> "if Vietnam wins this encounter"? tell me how?


how to win over China? asymmetric warfare is our best friend, you know 



NiceGuy said:


> We can send our soldiers to India to stop China invasion in land border, Indian bro can send more ship to help us to kick China oil rig out
> 
> Times for Indian bro to show ur muscle to China. Viva VietNam- India


India could secretly deliver us with nuclear weapons technology

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Yaduveer

Viet said:


> India is too soft. time to side with Vietnam in this fight.
> India shall provide us destroyers and missiles on credit.



India has always taken side with peace.

It is seen in this incident that peaceful Vietnam has forcefully bullied by China.

@Viet I have a suggestion for you, you should buy our Aircraft carrier INS Virat on deffered payment.






Though a bit old for modern standard yet it can send shivers in the spines of Chinese naval captains because it has capacity of 30 aircraft including Herriers and Helicopters.


We can fit this ship for extended period of 10 years more.

As for the missiles under 300Km ... the best missile we has is Brahmos -land sea version available.


----------



## sweetgrape

BoQ77 said:


> Go retired gen. to do what you can imagine ...
> PLAN doesn't dare to do that in real, because Phil in protection umbrella of US now ... LOL


 


NiceGuy said:


> Dear Old General , pls dont make Filipinos get more angry with u guys ...more Chinese will get caught if u keep bullying ur neighbors


Two vietnamese, hehe!


----------



## sweetgrape

Indian support? what's that? I am very interesting in that how do they support Viet, don't tell me teach Vietnamese drive warship or aircraft, or how to maintain weapon, if that is true, I will be very happy, very very happy, hehe!




Viet said:


> how to win over China? asymmetric warfare is our best friend, you know


Asymmertric?! this word is very familiar to me, very happy you use "asymmetric warfare" to against me, hope you know why? hehe.





Viet said:


> India could secretly deliver us with nuclear weapons technology


Secretly? I think it is very hard for India to keep something secret.

And, I also think Nuke is good for you vietnamese, very good, hehe.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Beast

VietHome said:


> Sure thing, bud.



 Anything short of an action from those warship is useless. USN can send one thousand destroyer to SCS for show only but they will not pick a fight with PLAN as we are their biggest trading partner. China has the freedom to do what she deems in SCS.



Jarha said:


> India has always taken side with peace.
> 
> It is seen in this incident that peaceful Vietnam has forcefully bullied by China.
> 
> @Viet I have a suggestion for you, you should buy our Aircraft carrier INS Virat on deffered payment.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Though a bit old for modern standard yet it can send shivers in the spines of Chinese naval captains because it has capacity of 30 aircraft including Herriers and Helicopters.
> 
> 
> We can fit this ship for extended period of 10 years more.
> 
> As for the missiles under 300Km ... the best missile we has is Brahmos -land sea version available.



Great idea. Vietnam shall buy this carrier and bankrupt their country defence budget. China is playing the very smart game of forcing more of igorant countries overspend money on military instead of upgrading domestic infrastruture and education. Inida and vietnam are 2 fine example.  In this way, their economic will not grow big. Good economic is the fundamental in achieving a powerful military.



Viet said:


> how to win over China? asymmetric warfare is our best friend, you know
> 
> 
> India could secretly deliver us with nuclear weapons technology



Another great idea. Another good reason for China to take on vietnam.


----------



## VietHome

Beast said:


> Anything short of an action from those warship is useless. USN can send one thousand destroyer to SCS for show only but they will not pick a fight with PLAN as we are their biggest trading partner. China has the freedom to do what she deems in SCS.


What they can do is to shed a light on the dark alley so that shady bullies can't rob and steal without being exposed for what they are. It also helps people see through any misinformation from such bullies' apologists who want them to rob and cry at the same time.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Beast

VietHome said:


> What they can do is to shed a light on the dark alley so that shady bullies can't rob and steal without being exposed for what they are. It also helps people see through any misinformation from such bullies' apologists who want them to rob and cry at the same time.



As long as no action, anything is futile. The US can move 10 CVN at black sea Mediterranean but anything short of action will not stop Russia take over Crimea.. This is same as SCS. The USN send a Blue ridge and just stroll by but nothing short of forcing out HD-981.  What is the point?


----------



## Rahul9090

Viet said:


> how to win over China? asymmetric warfare is our best friend, you know
> 
> 
> India could secretly deliver us with nuclear weapons technology



we should form a nato like military alliance .to fight against the Chinese,lets be real... china is very strong lets not be ignorant about it ,but they cant fight all of us !....


----------



## StormShadow

sweetgrape said:


> Oh, that's very sad, ok, means, whether we invade you or not, all depend on our decision, you are too weak.


The weaker one who conducts elections in a territory which you claim as disputed.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## southeastasiansea

*I. Situation:*

On May 1st 2014, Vietnamese authorities discovered China National Offshore Oil Corp.'s drilling rig namely Haiyang Shiyou 981 (HD981) and 03 oil vessels of China moving from the Northwest to the South of Tri Ton Island (Paracel islands of Vietnam). By 16:00 on May 2nd 2014, HD981 rig anchored in the South of Tri Ton Island along with 27 guard ships. China continued to deploy more guard ships to this area in the following days. On May 3rd 2014, Chinese Maritime Safety Administration issued a shipping notice No.14033 on its website, saying that: From May 2nd to August 15th 2014, HD981 rig will conduct exploratory drilling within one-nautical-mile-radius waters of 15029’58” North latitude - 111012’06” East longitude and all vessels are banned from entering this area. Afterwards, on May 5th 2014, Chinese Maritime Safety Administration replaced shipping notice No.14033 with notice No.14034 regarding the expansion of exploratory drilling scope up to 03 nautical miles, from 15029’58” North latitude to 111012’06” East longitude, and again, it bans all vessels from entering this area. The location of HD981 rig mentioned in the notice of Chinese Maritime Safety Administration is totally within the Exclusive Economic Zone and continental shelf of Vietnam, about 120 nautical miles from Ly Son island of Vietnam.

This action is part of China’s recent escalations in the South China Sea, such as: official claims of the “nine-dash line” (May 2009); cuttting of “Binh Minh II” and “Viking II” ships’ cables (May and June 2011); establishment of "Sansha City" (June 2012); unilateral ban on annual fishing in the South China Sea; implementation of “measures to enforce“Fishery Law of the People’s Republic of China”(entering into force since January 1st 2014); launch of patrols and military exercises in the South China Sea to show off its power and deter other claimants; enhancement of oil exploration, archeology, development of tourism and consolidation of facilities in disputed areas; attacks on Vietnamese fishing vessels, etc., in an increasingly overt manner, regardless of international criticism and laws. In addition, China also claims that it has “absolute right to establish an Air Defense Identification Zone in the South China Sea.

Thus, China’s recent activities in the South China Sea, especially the deployment of HD981 rig in Vietnam’s Exclusive Economic Zone and continental shelf, is deliberate and carefully calculated to “monopolize the South China Sea” and to realize its “nine-dash line” claims; willing to use every available means, regardless of international criticism and laws, in order to claim its sovereignty in the South China Sea, which intensifies tension and risk of uncontrolled confilts, and severely threatens security, safety, peace and cooperation in the South China Sea.

*II. Historical evidence proving Vietnam’s sovereignty over the Paracel and Spartly islands: *

Vietnam has sufficient historical evidence and legal grounds to prove its sovereignty over the Paracel and Spratly islands. Vietnam’s territorial acquisition in the Paracel and the Spratly Islands was based on “principle of effectiveness”: _Vietnam is the first country ever to occupy and exercise sovereignty over the Paracel and Spratly Islands when they were unclaimed (res nullius) at least since the 17th century. The occupancy and exercise of sovereignty is real, continuous, peaceful and obvious. Vietnam has full legal grounds and historical evidence to prove and defend its legitimate sovereignty, which meets all requirements of “principle of effectiveness”. _

In more detail:

_1. Vietnamese feudal dynasties within three centuries (from 17th to 19th) had occupied and exercised sovereignty over the Paracel and Spratly Islands:_

a. Dai Viet State under the Nguyen Dynasty: Established the Paracel unit to govern, defend and exploit the Paracel and Spratly Islands. The Paracel unit and the North Sea unit established afterwards under the control of the Paracel unit had operated under the command of the seven lords, from Lord Nguyen Phuc Lan or Nguyen Phuc Tan until the Tay Son rebellion.

b. Dai Viet State in the Tay Son period: Despite constant wars on the ground and in the South China Sea, from 1771 to 1801, the forces of Lord Nguyen, Lord Trinh and Tay Son still exercised sovereignty over the territories under their governance, including the Paracels and Spratlys.

c. Vietnam State under Nguyen Dynasty continued to demand the Paracel and the North Sea units to exploit and defend the Paracel and Spratly islands. After defeating Tay Son Dynasty and unifying the country, Nguyen Anh continued to pay attention to protection, governance and exploitation of Paracel and Spratly islands despite various domestic affairs.

_2. As Vietnam’s diplomatic representative, France continued to exercise Vietnam’s sovereignty over the Paracel and Spratly islands:_

Under the 1884 Patenotre Treaty, French colonial Administration represented Vietnam to defend, govern and claim Vietnam’s sovereignty over Paracel and Spratly islands.

_3. Vietnam’s sovereignty exercise from 1945 to 1975:_

In late 1946, early 1947, in spite of Vietnam’s independence declaration on September 2nd 1945 and freedom from the 1884 Patenotre Treaty, France asserted that under the Preliminary Treaty on March 6th 1946, The Democratic Republic of Vietnam remained under controll of the French Union. Thus, Vietnam remained dependent on France diplomatically and France continued to exercise its right in representing Vietnam to counter every violation of Vietnam’s sovereignty over Paracel and Spratly islands.

Under the Treaty on March 8th 1949, France established pro-French government, which was called The State of Vietnam and was headed by former Emperor Bao Dai. However, it was the French army who really ruled the South China Sea, including the Paracel and Spratly Islands.

Geneva Agreement signed on July 20th 1954 recognized Vietnam’s independence, sovereignty, territorial integrity and unity. Aticle 1 of Geneva Agreement stipulated that Ben Hai river was chosen as a temporary demarcation line (known as Parallel 17th) in order to divide the territorial jurisdiction between the North and the South of Vietnam. This temporary demarcation line was also extended offshore from the coast (Article 4). Paracels and Spratlys located below Parallel 17th therefore they were under the governance of the Government of South Vietnam.

_4. Vietnam’s sovereignty exercise over Paracels and Spratlys from 1975 till now: _

Under the guideline of the Politburo and directive of the Commander in chief of Vietnam’s People’s Army, Vietnam’s People’s Navy Commander tookover the Paracels.

From April 13th – 28th 1975, Vietnam’s People’s Forces tookover islands occupied by the forces of Democratic Republic of Vietnam and deployed soldiers to defend some other islands of the Paracels.

On December 9th 1982, the Government of the Socialist Republic of Vietnam signed the Decision No.193-HĐBT on the establishment of Truong Sa (Paracels) District of Dong Nai Province. On December 11th 1982, Vietnam Government signed the Decision No.194-HĐBT on the establishment of Hoang Sa (Spratlys) District of Quang Nam-Da Nang Province.

On December 28th 1982, under a Resolution of the 7th National Assembly of the Socialist Republic of Vietnam, Truong Sa District was integrated into Phu Khanh Province.

April 11th 2007, the Government of the Socialist Republic of Vietnam signed the Degree No.65 on the establishment of three administrative units of Truong Sa District:

- Truong Sa Town: includes the large Spartlys Island and its vicinity.

- Song Tu Tay Commune: includes Song Tu Tay Island and its vicinity.

- Sinh Ton Commune: includes Sinh Ton Island and its vicinity.

On July 1st 1989, Phu Khanh Province was seperated into two smaller provinces: Phu Yen and Khanh Hoa. Truong Sa District belongs to Khanh Hoa Province.

On June 23rd 1994, the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea was approved by the National Assembly of the Socialist Republic of Vietnam.

On January 1st 1997, Quang Nam-Da Nang Province was seperated into Quang Nam Province and Da Nang city, a Central city. Hoang Sa District belongs to Da Nang city. 

On April 25th 2009, Da Nang Administration appointed Mr. Dang Cong Ngu as Chairman of the People’s Committee of Hoang Sa District.

So far, in addition to the above activities, Vietnam has been occupying and governing 21 islands of the Spratlys; constantly consolidated and developed socio-economic, security and defense facilities in Truong Sa District. 

*III. International criticism of China’s recent actions:*

In response to China’s recent escalations in the South China Sea, many countries have severely criticized and objected to China’s actions:

*- The United States:* U.S. Politicians (State Department Spokesperson Jen Psaki; U.S Ambassador to the Philippines Goldberg; Assistant Secretary of State for East Asian and Pacific Affairs Danny Russel, etc.) have reiterated U.S stance and perspective on the issue: *(i)* U.S has, for the first time, shifted from insinuating to publicly criticizing China for its “nine-dot line” claims in the South China Sea which are inconsistent with international laws; saying lack of transparency in China’s claims may result in regional instability and insecurity; *(ii)* U.S has responded quickly and bluntly to China’s actions, regarded such actions as “provocative and risky”, saying China’s assertive and provocative moves in order to pursue its claims are unacceptable”. 

*- The Philippines (PLP):*has been reiterating its increasingly tough stance against China’s escalations in the South China Sea: *(i)* In response to Hainan’s new fishing regulations, the Philippines has kept protesting through different channels and asking China to clarify these regulations; saying that it violates International laws and escalates tensions in the South China Sea; affirming that the Philippines will not approve these regulations; *(ii)* The Foreign Ministry of the Phillipines also defined that the China’s “nine-dash-line” in the South China Sea completely vilolates international laws and threatens regional peace and stability; stating that the “China’s Exclusive Economic Zone is not allowed to exceed 200 nautical miles from its mainland and Hainan Island”; *(iii)* The Philippines determinedly persues its lawsuit against China at the international arbitration court of the law of the sea.

*- Malaysia:*Among the claimants in the South China Sea, Malaysia usually tends to avoid publicly criticizing China, even though China has 3-times sent its vessels to James reefs, 80km off Malaysia’s coast. Nevertheless, in response to China’s recent escalations in the South Sea, Malaysia has expressed tougher stance such as: *(i)* For the first time, Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak (September 2013) stated that China “had sent a mixed message” which gave Asian neibouring countries a negative view of China; China should solve maritime disputes with other ASEAN countries in “a more friendly way”; *(ii)* Malaysia refused China’s proposal of bilateral negotiations, “collaboration to exploit together” during the visit to Malaysia by the President Xi Jinping (Oct 2013); *(iii)* Malaysia declaired to build a new naval base in Bintulu, Sarwak (the largest town, 96 km off James reefs)... Notably, in the closed Conference of Foreign Ministers of ASEAN countries (on Jan 16th -17th 2014 ) in Myanma, Malaysia stance over the South China Sea had changed dramatically in comparision with those in the past, in which Malaysia had strongly protested to the enforcement measures of Fishery Law of Hainan; suggesting ASEAN countries to have appropriate responses to China's activities; did not accept the "setting aside dispute and exploiting jointly” guidelines of China; suggesting ASEAN and China to conclude COC.

*- Indonesia:*Indonesian Foreign Minister has protested China ADIZ on the South China Sea; expressed its concerns that the “Nine-dash-line” is overlapping Natuna Islands’ Exclusive Economic Zone; actively raised issues related to the disputes in the South China Sea at the closed Conference of Foreign Ministers of ASEAN countries in Myanmar (Jan 16th-17th 2014), urged the conclusion of COC.

*- Japan:* Japan's Defense Minister (Jan 12th) objected to “enforcement measures of Fishery Law of Hainan", saying that the unilateral imposition of such fishing restriction in waters as if this warters belongs only to China is unacceptable internationally; and that China is a threat to the current international order."

*IV. Vietnam’s stance, perspective and goodwill:*

_1. Over China’s drilling rig operation in Vietnam’s exclusive economic zone and continental shelf:_ Since revealation of the rig, Vietnam has restrained and clearly underlined its stance and perspective in a statement by Vietnamese Foreign Ministry Spokesman and a protesting letter by Vietnam Oil and Gas Group (May 4th) as follows:

- HD981 rig’s location disclosed by China’s Maritime Safety Administration is totally within the exclusive economic zone and continental shelf of Vietnam, about 120 nautical miles off the coast of Vietnam;

- Vietnam has full historical evidence and legal grounds to prove its sovereignty over the Paracels and Spratlys as well as sovereign and jurisdical rights over its exclusive economic zone and continental shelf in accordance with the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea;

- All activities by a foreign entity in Vietnamese waters without Vietnam’s consent are illegal and invalid. Vietnam strongly objects to such activities;

- Vietnam strongly opposes China’s above action and firmly requests CNOOC to stop its illegal operations and remove HD981 rig out of Vietnamese waters.

- China’s above action goes against the cooperative spirit between the national oil and gas groups of both countries, the practice of international oil and gas activities as well as friendly and cooperative principles between Vietnam and China.

_2. Vietnam’s general stance on the South China Sea:_ Vietnam’s consistent stance is that in pursuit of a fundamental and long-term solution to the disputes in the South China Sea, it’s imperative for the stakeholders to:

- Restrain, go to great length to maintain peace and stability, refuse to use force or coercion, strictly obbey UN Charter and international legal standards including 05 principles on peaceful coexistence, the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea; fully implement the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea (DOC) and ASEAN Six-point principle on the South China Sea (2010), conclude a Code of Conduct in the South China Sea (COC) in a timely manner.

- Persistantly pursue peaceful solutions to sovle the disputes, in accordance with international law; respect freedom of navigation and put concerted effort to securing safety for ships through the South China Sea in keeping with the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea; enhance cooperation on sea safety and research, environment protection, disaster relief at sea, maritime crime prevention which contributes to trust building.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Brainsucker

According to the OP post, Paracel and Spratley islands belong to Vietnam. So Vietnam is just as greedy as China in taking territory. You're no longer the one who is get bullied here. Because you claims all the islands in SCS too.

Who know after you get all the islands you will move to Natuna too and claims our islands? 

Well, take them if you can, I don't care. But don't act like the victim anymore. If you want something, take it. But don't ask other people die for you.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## sweetgrape

Vietnam has been accustomed to silent China, they thought China is weak and too busy to deal with it, hehe! playing as victim, are they? more vietnamese will cry, and louder, they need American ***, hehe!


----------



## cnleio

Talk depending on national strength.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## SrNair

xunzi said:


> Who care about India. LOL Our biggest threat is our friend the USA. I bet if we give our friend, the USA a piece of the pie, they will shut up as usual. LOL



We dont care China also.That is why we support Vietnam.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Dem!god

lol....
look at chinese reaction...... its hilarious....just a decade or two back they were goodie-goodie kid of east asia and now acting all tough and bully......
anyway bulling don't last long.....as far as vietnam case is concerned, Its time for vietnam to overhaul its economy and start to work on close co operation with japan, india, korea, USA and others.....they should not depend on chinese investment....need to strengthen their place in ASEAN.... in today's contemporary world economy is everything .... if u want to stand up to the bully then u need to have a strong backup and strong economy will help u a lot in this.....

for chinese all who are talking high and mighty must understand, nothing stands for ever.... just 60 years back their country was ravaged by japanese, english and others..... and still they didn't learnt the lesson or they have forgotten what their great philosopher taught them in the past.... if they will keep bulling the others, someone will certainly standup against them and then it will hard for them ... time changes for everyone.....

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## GR!FF!N

there is a reason why India is going to support Vietnam.because what China did,violated both UNCLOS and DOC,both treaties which China ratified.if any case is lodged,China will sure going to lose.just like Philippines' case of arbitration,even in this case China will not take part and only take resort of conjuring.so,in both cases,in front of international community,both Vietnam and Philippines holds higher moral grounds than China.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## steelseries779

Soryu said:


> * China must respect international laws*
> 
> Very good video with eng-dub for anyone love peace and want to see the truth. Multi- subtitle is active with Chinese, English and Vietnamese.



China is the law. Screw you all, hahahaha

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Sasquatch

Lets stick to the topic now or I start handing out warnings.


----------



## ephone

When does he become major general???



Beidou2020 said:


> Major General Luo Yuan is one of my favourites. He is a true Chinese patriot.


----------



## Pangu

This map shows the overlapping cliams in the SCS. Look at the map, Vietnam claim all of Paracel & Spratly. Philippines' claim part of Paracel & all of Spratly. Compared to China's cliam. How greedy are we all?


----------



## Pangu

*China action is in accordance with UNCLOS*. Let me repost for arguments, shall we?

Under Article 121, Regime of Islands, we are entitled to an EEZ around China's ZhongJian Island. As the oil rig is within 18nm from the island, it's still within our contiguous zone.

----------------------------------------------------
_*Article121


Regime of islands*
_
1. An island is a naturally formed area of land, surrounded by water, which is above water at high tide.

2. Except as provided for in paragraph 3, the territorial sea, the contiguous zone, the exclusive economic zone and the continental shelf of an island are determined in accordance with the provisions of this Convention applicable to other land territory.

3. Rocks which cannot sustain human habitation or economic life of their own shall have no exclusive economic zone or continental shelf.

-------------------------------------------------

Regarding territorial disputes, China* reserved the right NOT to accept arbitration by 3rd party* as stipulated by UNCLOS in Article 298. 


*China*
_[Original: Chinese]_

Upon ratification (7 June 1996)1/:

In accordance with the decision of the Standing Committee of the Eighth National People's Congress of the People's Republic of China at its nineteenth session, the President of the People's Republic of China has hereby ratified the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea of 10 December 1982 and at the same time made the following statement:

1. In accordance with the provisions of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, the People's Republic of China shall enjoy sovereign rights and jurisdiction over an exclusive economic zone of 200 nautical miles and the continental shelf.

2. The People's Republic of China will effect, through consultations, the delimitation of the boundary of the maritime jurisdiction with the States with coasts opposite or adjacent to China respectively on the basis of international law and in accordance with the principle of equitability.

3. The People's Republic of China reaffirms its sovereignty over all its archipelagos and islands as listed in article 2 of the Law of the People's Republic of China on the territorial sea and the contiguous zone, which was promulgated on 25 February 1992.

4. The People's Republic of China reaffirms that the provisions of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea concerning innocent passage through the territorial sea shall not prejudice the right of a coastal State to request, in accordance with its laws and regulations, a foreign State to obtain advance approval from or give prior notification to the coastal State for the passage of its warships through the territorial sea of the coastal State.


Declaration made after ratification (25 August 2006)

Declaration under article 298:


The Government of the People's Republic of China does not accept any of the procedures provided for in Section 2 of Part XV of the Convention with respect to all the categories of disputes referred to in paragraph 1 (a) (b) and (c) of Article 298 of the Convention.

------------------------------------------------------

So where did China violated UNCLOS?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## VietHome

*By Editorial Board, Published: May 13*

WITH A $1 billion oil rig the size of a football field, China has literally laid down a new marker in its ambition to dominate the South China Sea — and challenged President Obama’s “rebalancing” policy in Asia, only weeks after the president’s tour of the region. The rig is about 130 miles off the coast of Vietnam, in waters that Vietnam claims as an exclusive economic zone under international law. China’s claim is more tenuous, but it is backed up with a flotilla of some 80 ships that for a week have engaged in a dangerous contest of ramming and water-hosing Vietnamese vessels.

The message of the deployment is as simple as it is provocative: The regime of Xi Jinping intends to unilaterally assert China’s sovereignty over almost all of the South China Sea without regard for the competing claims of five other countries or Mr. Obama’s newly restated commitment to uphold defense agreements with two of those nations. In that sense, the rig, like Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, is a fundamental challenge to the international order the United States has tried to preserve since the end of the Cold War.

China’s ambitions are described by an audacious map, dating from the pre-Communist era, that claims some 80 percent of the South China Sea and a number of island chains or waters also claimed by Japan, the Philippines, Taiwan, Brunei and Indonesia, in addition to Vietnam. For years Beijing has talked with those countries and others in Southeast Asia about establishing a code of conduct for the sea, and it discussed the possibility of joint development of oil and gas with Vietnam a few months ago.

The move of the oil rig appears to reflect a calculation that a more aggressive policy will not meet meaningful resistance from China’s neighbors or the United States. The target of the initiative, Vietnam, is particularly vulnerable, as it lacks strong military ties with Washington and is ruled by a Communist Party with a strong, pro-Chinese faction. The Vietnamese leadership has responded rather vigorously: In addition to the several dozen ships that are sparring with China’s near the rig, the regime allowed anti-Chinese demonstrations in Hanoi on Sunday, and its prime minister condemned China at a summit meeting of Southeast Asian nations.

China’s neighbors, however, predictably declined to take sides, issuing a communique that expressed “serious concerns” about “ongoing developments” without mentioning China. The Obama administration, for its part, issued a statement saying China’s action was “provocative” and “part of a broader pattern” to “advance its claims over disputed territory in a manner that undermines peace and stability in the region.” But the U.S. response is not likely to extend beyond rhetoric; a State Department official said in Hanoi last week that the administration took no position on the competing territorial claims.

Vietnam and the Philippines could bring a case against China at an international tribunal under the Law of the Sea treaty. But Beijing is likely to shrug off that form of pressure. Most likely it will continue to act unilaterally in the region until it meets concerted resistance, whether diplomatic or military. If the United States and its allies have a plan for that, it isn’t evident.

A Beijing power play in the South China Sea is met with U.S. inaction - The Washington Post

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## yowhenyo

xudeen said:


> This map shows the overlapping cliams in the SCS. Look at the map, Vietnam claim all of Paracel & Spratly. Philippines' claim part of Paracel & all of Spratly. Compared to China's cliam. How greedy are we all?


 
Who created this sht? Ph do not claim whole/parts of Parcel.


----------



## VietHome

Brainsucker said:


> According to the OP post, Paracel and Spratley islands belong to Vietnam. So Vietnam is just as greedy as China in taking territory. You're no longer the one who is get bullied here. Because you claims all the islands in SCS too.
> 
> Who know after you get all the islands you will move to Natuna too and claims our islands?
> 
> Well, take them if you can, I don't care. But don't act like the victim anymore. If you want something, take it. But don't ask other people die for you.


What are you talking about? Both of those island groups have been under our jurisdiction from the feudal era. Paracel islands especially have been recorded numerously in Vietnamese and Western maps as belonging to ancient Vietnam. The Spratly islands were under the control of French's colony Anam so it's legal that after we liberate ourselves from the French, these islands come under our jurisdiction.

Why would we claim your islands? China, on the other hand, have done exactly that. Don't you know about incidents where Chinese vessel intimate your law enforcement to release Chinese fishing boats on your EEZ?

We don't ask anyone to die for us. We fought against France and America with our own flesh and blood. We are just boast-casting the naked aggression by the PRC so that the world take notice. People need to understand that any complacency with Chinese aggression will lead make their country vulnerable when the PRC comes knock on the door.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Pangu

yowhenyo said:


> Who created this sht? Ph do not claim whole/parts of Parcel.



I believe you are correct, that last map listed Macclesfield Bank under XiSha group (Paracel) which is incorrect. It should be listed separately under ZhongSha group. But Pinoys are claiming it nonetheless. See map below. It's under our control. 






*Philippines protests China’s moving in on Macclesfield Bank*
Jerry E. Esplanada, Norman Bordadora
Philippine Daily Inquirer
1:42 am | Friday, July 6th, 2012
13 109 64
Criminal Lawyers
Facing Criminal Charges? AffordableFees. Free Consultation. 64389770
www.regentlaw.com.sg
Ads by Google
The Philippines on Wednesday protested China’s move placing virtually the entire West Philippine Sea (South China Sea), including the Philippine territory of Macclesfield Bank and its surrounding waters, under the jurisdiction of a newly created city.

Manila’s protest came as the latest sour turn in relations between the Philippines and China, which have yet to find a temporary solution to their dispute over Panatag Shoal (Scarborough Shoal), a resource-rich reef in the West Philippine Sea just west of Zambales province.

Also on Thursday, President Aquino urged the Chinese authorities to “balance [their] statements with the truth” in response to their accusation that he was trying to stir tension in the West Philippine Sea by asking for US help in monitoring the disputed waters.

Aquino convened his Cabinet—the second time in a week under an administration that rarely holds full Cabinet meetings—to discuss territorial issues with China and hear views on dealing with the country’s increasingly aggressive neighbor.

Strongest statement
The President issued his strongest statement yet since he threatened last week to send government vessels back to Panatag Shoal unless China called its ships and fishing boats home.

“It’s not clear with me what the provocative statements that have been said to have come from Philippine officials, but we know there are many things being said from the other side,” Aquino told reporters in Malacañang.

“They should read what has been written from their end and, with all due respect, perhaps they should balance what they are saying with the truth,” he said.

“It has been almost three weeks since our Coast Guard vessel pulled out of [Panatag Shoal]. If [China’s] vessels … have also gone home, there’s already no more issue,” the President said. “So who could be the one prolonging this [dispute over] Panatag Shoal?”

Asked when he would order government vessels back to Panatag Shoal, Aquino said, “That will be, of course, dependent on the weather.”

Macclesfield Bank is a huge underwater group of reefs and shoals located east of the Paracel Islands, southwest of the Pratas Islands and north of the Spratly Islands in the center of the West Philippine Sea.

The Philippines claims Macclesfield Bank and administers it through the provincial government of Zambales. It is one of the largest atolls in the world, covering an area of 6,500 square kilometers, and is surrounded by excellent fishing waters.

Policy of deescalation
China’s Ministry of Civil Affairs said in June that putting Macclesfield Bank, the Paracels and the Spratlys under Sansha would “further strengthen China’s administration and development” of the three island groups.

There was no immediate comment from the Chinese Embassy in Manila on the Philippines’ Macclesfield protest.

The Philippines on June 15 stepped back from a two-month maritime standoff with China at the shoal and had since imposed a policy of deescalation.

But on Monday, President Aquino said the government might ask the United States to deploy spy planes over the West Philippine Sea to help monitor the disputed waters.

And on Wednesday, after weeks of inaction, the Department of Foreign Affairs (DFA) protested China’s latest move that impinged on Philippine sovereignty over its parts of the West Philippine Sea.

Diplomatic protest
In a statement issued Thursday, the DFA said it summoned Chinese Ambassador to the Philippines Ma Keqing on Wednesday and handed her a note protesting China’s recent declaration that placed Macclesfield Bank under the prefectural oversight of newly established Sansha City.

In June, China’s State Council declared Macclesfield Bank, Paracel Islands and Spratly Islands—known in Chinese as Zhongsha Islands, Xisha Islands and Nansha Islands—parts of Sansha City, to tighten its grip on contested parts of the West Philippine Sea amid territorial disputes with the Philippines and Vietnam.

The DFA said the extent of Sansha’s jurisdiction “violates Philippine sovereignty over the Kalayaan Group of Islands and Bajo de Masinloc (Scarborough Shoal).”

China’s move also “infringes on Philippine sovereign rights over the waters and the continental shelf of the West Philippine Sea,” the DFA said.

The expansive jurisdiction of Sansha, the DFA said, “contradicts the spirit of the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea” between China and the 10-member Association of Southeast Asian Nations (Asean).” The Asean and China signed the nonaggression accord in 2002.

The DFA reiterated that the Kalayaan Group and the Bajo de Masinloc, which Manila also calls Panatag Shoal, and their surrounding waters “form an internal part of Philippine territory and maritime jurisdiction.”

Help from treaty ally
On asking the United States for spy plane overflights, Aquino said the Philippines was well within its right to ask an ally for assistance in monitoring its own territory.

“America is a treaty ally. We have a lack. They have a capability,” Aquino said. “If ever our capability would fall short, I believe we can approach them to add to our situational awareness, especially in the West Philippine Sea.”

Aquino said, however, that asking for US help in monitoring is just an option, correcting a report that seemed to indicate permission has been given for overflights.

The meeting on the territorial dispute with China began at about 1:30 p.m.

Talks, not ships
Among those seen going into the meeting were Senate President Juan Ponce Enrile and Senator Antonio Trillanes IV. Enrile is a former secretary of national defense, while Trillanes is a former Navy officer.

As the Cabinet prepared for the discussions, Manila Auxiliary Bishop Broderick Pabillo urged Malacañang to deescalate the growing tensions with China over Panatag Shoal.

Pabillo said the government should continue talking to the Chinese instead of sending back ships to the shoal.

“We can achieve [peace] through dialogue,” Pabillo said. “Don’t aggravate the situation [by sending the ships back]. Hold dialogues.”

Situation stable
On Tuesday, Liu Weimin, a spokesperson for the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs, told a press briefing in Beijing that the situation in the West Philippine Sea was stable with no Philippine vessels at Panatag Shoal.

But China, the Chinese Embassy in Manila quoted Liu as saying, is “willing to continue to hold dialogues and consultations” with the Philippines on their dispute over Panatag Shoal.—With reports from Philip C. Tubeza and AP


Read more: Philippines protests China’s moving in on Macclesfield Bank | Inquirer Global Nation
Follow us: @inquirerdotnet on Twitter | inquirerdotnet on Facebook


----------



## steelseries779

Vietnamese too naive, the only thing US could do is to issue a statement, or to express concern. China has tested out US's bottom line.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

steelseries779 said:


> Vietnamese too naive, the only thing US could do is to issue a statement, or to express concern. China has tested out US's bottom line.



Maybe they love to have the US lip service?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Beidou2020

steelseries779 said:


> Vietnamese too naive, the only thing US could do is to issue a statement, or to express concern. China has tested out US's bottom line.



We are essentially testing the US. These territorial disputes have been an issue between China and the US proxies.

The US wants to maintain dominance and give the impression no one can challenge them. China is actively challenging them and the US can do nothing apart from issuing statements and moving its military to Asia. That won't stop China continuing to challenge the US in Asia. 

US will be the biggest loser in this as they have a reputation and empire to protect. China has not much to lose and everything to gain over the long term.

China is shredding the so called invincibility of the US. Asia is no longer unchallenged for the US. China is challenging them. China won't be leaving Asia....ever!

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cirr

The US is busy doing biz，all sorts of biz，with China。

For example，Wall Street has been opening its arms and legs welcoming a multitude of Chinese tech firms getting listed on American stock exchanges。

The recent IPOs include Alibaba、JD.com、Weibo、MOMO、Tinder、Tuniu、Leju、Cheetah。。。

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ViXuyen

Vietnam has deployed this ship to the oil rig area a few days ago

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Rechoice

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Maybe they love to have the US lip service?



china did it forget you ?



cirr said:


> The US is busy doing biz，all sorts of biz，with China。
> 
> For example，*Wall Street has been opening its arms and legs* welcoming a multitude of Chinese tech firms getting listed on American stock exchanges。
> 
> The recent IPOs include Alibaba、JD.com、Weibo、MOMO、Tinder、Tuniu、Leju、Cheetah。。。



ha ha, then china lick it ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Krueger

*14/05/2014

German press criticises China’s East Sea aggression*

A number of Germany’s major newspapers have continued to run articles on China’s illegal act of placing the Haiyang Shiyou-981 drilling rig in Vietnam’s exclusive economic zone and continental shelf.

The Der Spiegel newspaper in its May 13 publication quoted US Secretary of State John Kerry as saying that China has acted provocatively in disputes in the East Sea.

According the article, the Secretary of State held telephone talks with his Chinese counterpart Wang Yi to criticise Beijing’s aggressive deed and call on the country to solve the dispute by peaceful means in line with international law.

The article also inserted photos showing Chinese ships surrounding the rig ramming and firing water cannons at Vietnamese vessels and another on Vietnam’s international press conference on the situation.

Meanwhile, the Deutsch Welle newspaper also ran an article by Frank Sieren, who has lived in Beijing for 20 years.

In his article, Sieren wrote that tensions at sea between China and other countries have become more serious, with the placement of the rig in Vietnam’s exclusive economic zone following territorial disputes with Japan and the Philippines.

Demonstrations by Vietnamese people worldwide to oppose China’s illegal act in the East Sea were also covered in several German newspapers.

On May 2, China stationed the rig at 15 degrees 29 minutes 58 seconds north latitude and 111 degrees 12 minutes 06 seconds east longitude. The location is 80 nautical miles deep inside Vietnam’s exclusive economic zone and 119 nautical miles from Vietnam’s Ly Son island.

China has so far deployed 86 vessels of various kinds to the area, including military, coast guard, marine surveillance, marine patrol and fishing ships.

The provocative acts by China, including the ramming and firing of water cannons into Vietnamese coast guard ships during their law enforcement missions in the country’s waters have left many Vietnamese ships damaged and nine fisheries surveillance officers injured.

*East sea tension triggered by China is viewpoint of many countries*

The US State Department has confirmed that China’s aggressive action, causing tensions in the East China Sea, is fully recognized by many countries around the world.

Addressing the US State Department’s daily press briefing on May 13, spokesperson Jen Psaki denied accusations from China saying that the US involvement in the latest developments in the East Sea has undermined peace and stability in the region.

In response to a question raised by a Chinese reporter that the Chinese Foreign Ministry assessed the tensions in the East Sea were not caused by China, alleging the US has exaggerated the story, Jen Psaki said that the US stands united with many other countries, confirming that China’s provocative acts are the cause of rising tensions in the East Sea.

She also said that in a telephone conservation between US State Secretary John Kerry with Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Pham Binh Minh on May 11, Kerry expressed grave concern about tensions in the East Sea, called on restraint and once again shared the view that China's actions are provocative.

During the phone talks with both Vietnamese and Chinese FMs, Kerry also expressed his view that disputes should be resolved by peaceful means, Jen Psaki said.

*Mongolians strongly condemn China’s actions*

The Vietnam-Mongolia Friendship Association has issued a statement protesting China’s recent acts.

According to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the Vietnam-Mongolia Friendship Association issued a statement related to China’s stationing of drilling rig Ocean-981 and escort vessels in Vietnam’s exclusive economic zone and continental shelf.

In the statement, the association said that China’s unilateral actions have violated strongly international laws and threatened Vietnam’s sovereignty and security in the region.

China’s escalating actions towards Vietnam in the East Sea have also caused growing concern among its neighbouring countries.

*Washington Post asserts Chinese aggression challenges world order*

The Washington Post – the most widely circulated newspaper in Washington DC - on May 13 published a lead editorial asserting China’s giant drilling rig is a fundamental challenge to the world order.

Following are excerpts from the article:

“With a US$1 billion oil rig the size of a football field, China has literally laid down a new marker in its ambition to dominate the East Sea — and challenged President Obama’s “rebalancing” policy in Asia, only weeks after the president’s tour of the region.

The rig is about 130 miles off the coast of Vietnam, in waters that Vietnam claims as an exclusive economic zone under international law. China’s claim is more tenuous, but it is backed up with a flotilla of some 80 ships that for a week have engaged in a dangerous contest of ramming and water-hosing Vietnamese vessels.

An oil drilling rig of the China National Offshore Oil Corporation (CNOOC)

(Photo: Reuters)

The message of the deployment is as simple as it is provocative: The regime of Xi Jinping intends to unilaterally assert China’s sovereignty over almost all of the East Sea without regard for the competing claims of five other countries. The rigis a fundamental challenge to the international order the United States has tried to preserve since the end of the Cold War.

China’s ambitions are described by an audacious map, dating from the pre-Communist erathat claims some 80 percent of the East Sea and a number of island chains. For years Beijing has talked with those countries and others in Southeast Asia about establishing a code of conduct for the sea, and it discussed the possibility of joint development of oil and gas with Vietnam a few months ago.

The move of the oil rig appears to reflect a calculation that a more aggressive policy will not meet meaningful resistance from China’s neighbors or the United States. The target of the initiative is Vietnam.

The Vietnamese leadership has responded rather vigorously: In addition to the several dozen ships that are sparring with China’s near the rig, and Vietnam’s Prime Minister condemned China at a summit of Southeast Asian nations. 

Vietnam could bring a case against China at an international tribunal under the Law of the Sea treaty. But Beijing is likely to shrug off that form of pressure. Most likely it will continue to act unilaterally in the region until it meets concerted resistance, whether diplomatic or military.”

*China escalating tensions in East Sea: French expert*

China is taking dangerous steps in the East Sea to scramble for marine territory on one hand, and intimidate Vietnam and the Philippines on the other, a French foreign policy expert has said.

The illegal placement of a Chinese drilling rig in Vietnam’s exclusive economic zone and continental shelf reflects a strategic continuation of recent Chinese acts, stated Professor Francois Godement, Director of the Asia and China Programme of the European Council on Foreign Relations.

He warned of the high risk of conflicts escalating in the region due to China’s recent acts, including its ships’ aggressive ramming of Vietnamese coast guard vessels.

It is clear that China has not respected international agreements and is ready to use force to solve territorial disputes, the professor noted.

Praising Vietnam’s restraint against China’s provocations, Godement said that in addition to connecting with more countries, Vietnam should seek legal solutions and try to avoid a military conflict.

He advised that Vietnam should build closer links with major partners such as the US, Japan, India, ASEAN and the EU to increase its diplomatic strength.

*Indian professor: China pursues “salami slicing” strategy in East Sea*

China has been pursuing what is known as 'salami slicing' strategy to occupy bit by bit the East Sea, an Indian professor has said.

According to Professor G. Vijayachandra Naidu, lecturer at the Centre for Indo-Pacific Studies under the Jawaharlal Nehru University in New Delhi, the strategy began in 1974 when it first grabbed Vietnam’s Hoang Sa (Paracel) archipelago.

Since then, China has been occupying bit by bit the East Sea, which is not only geostrategically a pivotal area in the region but also known to possess vast natural resources, especially energy, he said.

China has managed to occupy most parts of the East Sea over the past 40 years, but still claiming the so-called nine-dot line, which is extremely vague and ambiguous, he added.

“The present incident of Chinese ships ramming Vietnamese boats clearly in the territorial waters of Vietnam by indulging in oil exploration activities is serious,” Naidu noted, adding that the next move might be that with the pretext of defending its interests, China might even station naval warships.

The professor said it is essential that ASEAN takes a firm position unless China stops all these kinds of activities of forcibly occupying the islands bit by bit.

Vietnam in particular should hold meetings and consultations with political leaders and experts to raise the awareness and also to bring to the fore the facts of the dispute and to mobilise the support across all sections, he advised.

*VN-France Friendship Association condemns China’s incursion*

In an open letter to the Vietnamese embassy in France on May 13, the Vietnam-France Friendship Association (VFFA) strongly repudiated the foray by China into the territorial waters of Vietnam.

The incursion by China into the economic exclusive zone and continental shelf of Vietnam runs counter to international law, the VFFA said, expressing “deep concern” over the assault.

Disputes between Vietnam and China over sovereignty of the Hoang Sa (Paracel) and Truong Sa (Spratly) Archipelagos must not be resolved militarily and should be amicably resolved in accordance with the precepts of international law, especially in a manner consistent with the basic tenets of the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS).

The press release called on China to extract its oil rig from Vietnam’s territorial waters and put an end to the wrongful episode, respecting commitments of the 2002 Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the East Sea (DOC).

Additionally, the charitable association Amis France-Vietnam sent a telegram to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the Vietnam Union of Friendship Organisations (VUFO) and the Vietnamese Embassy in France strongly protesting China’s violation over Vietnam’s sovereignty.

*NGOs concern about China’s illegal acts
*
Foreign non-governmental organisations (NGOs) have expressed their deep concern about China’s serious violation in Vietnam’s territorial waters.

The Vietnam Union of Friendship Organisations (VUFO) on May 13 held a discussion on the recent developments in the East Sea with representatives from non-governmental organizations in Hanoi.

The event was attended by speakers and 300 delegates including representatives from organizations operating in Vietnam and domestic and foreign media agencies.

Speakers shared history, legal aspects as well as recent developments in the East Sea with special emphasis placed on China’s illegal installation of its drilling rig Ocean- 981 in Vietnam’s waters which is a serious violation of the sovereign rights and jurisdiction over the exclusive economic zone and continental shelf of Vietnam.

This move is illegal and goes against international law and practices, especially the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the East Sea (DOC), and the agreements reached by the two nations’ senior leaders.

Le Van Cuong, International Relations researcher said never before has the international community took action against China’s violation as swiftly as this time.

Infringement of China has negatively affected political trust and aspects of cooperation between the two countries, hurting the feeling of the Vietnamese people, raising regional and international public’s deep concern about threat to the environment of peace and stability in the region and the world.

Consequently, NGOs called on all concerned parties to exercise restraint, persistently promote negotiations on the basis of respect for international law and issue a statement asking the UN and ASEAN to take measures to put an end to the dispute in the East Sea as soon as possible.

China’s withdrawal of its drilling rig and escort vessels out of Vietnam’s waters will contribute to stabilizing regional and global peaceful environment.

Also at the meeting, many representatives and individuals signed their names in support of a statement on China’s illegal installment of its drilling rig and violation of Vietnam’s exclusive economic zone and continental shelf.

m.english.vietnamnet.vn/fms/government/102305/international-voices-raised-to-oppose-china-s-acts.html#

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Brainsucker

VietHome said:


> What are you talking about? Both of those island groups have been under our jurisdiction from the feudal era. Paracel islands especially have been recorded numerously in Vietnamese and Western maps as belonging to ancient Vietnam. The Spratly islands were under the control of French's colony Anam so it's legal that after we liberate ourselves from the French, these islands come under our jurisdiction.
> 
> Why would we claim your islands? China, on the other hand, have done exactly that. Don't you know about incidents where Chinese vessel intimate your law enforcement to release Chinese fishing boats on your EEZ?
> 
> We don't ask anyone to die for us. We fought against France and America with our own flesh and blood. We are just boast-casting the naked aggression by the PRC so that the world take notice. People need to understand that any complacency with Chinese aggression will lead make their country vulnerable when the PRC comes knock on the door.



Lol, Chinese said the same as you. They claimed that Paracel and Spratley belong to them since Imperial era. So what is the difference between you and them? I can sympathize to your cause if you just stick on your de facto islands in the Spratley. It is your right. If they are harassed, you are a victim. More than that, you just another China but without muscle. What stop you from take over Malay, Brunei, Pinoy claim after you beat China?

Well yeah, beat French and US in your jungle. Try it again in SCS. Shoot those Arleigh Burke. And I guaranteed you won't have any ship at your harbor anymore. Because it is your jungle that made you win. You never win in a sea battle. And to be honest, the way you said about you beat France, US, China etc just make you look arrogance. If you are that superior, why do you even need the help another country. Face China yourself. you're the unbeat-able after all.

The Natuna problem is ours; not yours. We don't even cry for that. For us, that incident was a whip for our navy to become better and stronger. So don't worry about it.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## BoQ77

*U.S., China spar again on South China Seas dispute*
WASHINGTON/BEIJING Tue May 13, 2014 2:05pm BST





U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry talks to reporters about Ukraine, at the State Department in Washington May 7, 2014.

Credit: Reuters/Yuri Gripas



(Reuters) - China hit back at the United States over the disputed South China Sea on Tuesday, after U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry said recent Chinese moves in the resource-rich waters were "provocative".

Tensions rose last week after China moved a giant oil rig into an area also claimed by Vietnam. Each country accused the other of ramming its ships near the disputed Paracel Islands.

China claims almost the entire South China Sea, rejecting rival claims to parts of it from Vietnam, the Philippines, Taiwan, Malaysia and Brunei.

"*He (Kerry) said China's introduction of an oil rig and numerous government vessels in waters disputed with Vietnam was provocative," U.S. State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki said, *referring to a telephone call between Kerry and Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi in which North Korea was also discussed.

"*He urged both sides to de-escalate tensions, ensure safe conduct by their vessels at sea, and resolve the dispute through peaceful means in accordance with international law*."

China's foreign ministry said there certainly had been provocative moves in the South China Sea, but that China was not the guilty party and repeated that it was the United States' fault for encouraging such behaviour.

"We hope that the U.S. side can carefully reflect - if they really hope for the Pacific Ocean to be peaceful, what kind of role do they actually want to play?" spokeswoman Hua Chunying told a daily news briefing.

Hua said that Wang urged Kerry to "objectively and fairly" look at the South China Sea issue, and "act and speak cautiously".

China says that the South China Sea issue should be resolved via direct talks between the parties concerned, and has bristled at what it sees as unwarranted U.S. interference. China has also looked askance at the U.S. "pivot" back to Asia, especially Washington's efforts to boost existing military links with Tokyo and Manila.

In separate remarks to visiting Singapore Foreign Minister K. Shanmugam, *Kerry said the United States was deeply concerned by China's "aggressive act".*

"We are particularly concerned – all nations that are engaged in navigation and traffic within the South China Sea, the East China Sea, are deeply concerned about this aggressive act," Kerry said in the Monday meeting.

"*We want to see a code of conduct created; we want to see this resolved peacefully through the Law of the Sea, through arbitration, through any other means, but not direct confrontation and aggressive action*," Kerry added, according to a transcript of his comments released by the State Department.

Speaking to fellow leaders of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations at a summit on Sunday, Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung said Vietnam had acted with "utmost restraint" and used all means of dialogue to request China remove the rig.

Dung said China was slandering his country and committing dangerous violations.

However the communique issued at the end of the summit by the 10-nation ASEAN group contained no criticism of China.

Vietnamese state media said that Vietnamese and Chinese ships had again used water cannon on each other on Monday, though there were no injuries.

Chinese spokeswoman Hua would neither confirm nor deny the new face-off, repeating that China was urging Vietnam to "end its provocative actions" and withdraw its ships.

Kerry and Wang also reaffirmed the U.S. and China's shared commitment to work towards North Korean denuclearization, Psaki said, after North Korea on Saturday renewed a threat to set off an atomic device amid heightened concern over its attempts to build a nuclear arsenal.

"China is committed to realizing denuclearization of the Korean peninsula, safeguarding peace and stability of the Korean peninsula and resolving relevant issues through dialogue and consultation," Wang was cited as saying in a statement posted to the ministry's website.

North Korea is under heavy sanctions imposed by several U.N. resolutions adopted beginning in 2006 but has defied pressure to abandon its missile and nuclear programmes. It last conducted a nuclear test in February last year. [ID:nL6N0NW0RB]

(Reporting by Ben Blanchard and Michael Martina in BEIJING, Hanoi newsroom and Eric M. Johnson in Seattle; Editing by Nick Macfie)

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## xunzi

Fact still remain. We drill just 17 miles off Paracel Island that we administer and the de facto owner.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Zero_wing

chinese swines arrogant as ever

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## xunzi

VietHome said:


> What are you talking about? Both of those island groups have been under our jurisdiction from the feudal era. Paracel islands especially have been recorded numerously in Vietnamese and Western maps as belonging to ancient Vietnam. The Spratly islands were under the control of French's colony Anam so it's legal that after we liberate ourselves from the French, these islands come under our jurisdiction.
> 
> Why would we claim your islands? China, on the other hand, have done exactly that. Don't you know about incidents where Chinese vessel intimate your law enforcement to release Chinese fishing boats on your EEZ?
> 
> We don't ask anyone to die for us. We fought against France and America with our own flesh and blood. We are just boast-casting the naked aggression by the PRC so that the world take notice. People need to understand that any complacency with Chinese aggression will lead make their country vulnerable when the PRC comes knock on the door.


VIETNAMESE bully. LOL


----------



## Zero_wing

Says the bully


----------



## xunzi

Zero_wing said:


> Says the bully


We are a peaceful country.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zero_wing

xunzi said:


> We are a peaceful country.[/quote
> 
> Sure whatever actions speak louder than words imperial swine


----------



## Zero_wing

Ya evidence of your imperialism and _expansionism_


----------



## sweetgrape

They are good to China before?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## KAL-EL

Everyone seems to always be arguing about something.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cirr

What the heck。。。

PLA Chief of the General Staff Gen. Fang Fenghui having fun onboard USS's LCS：







while。。。。

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

xunzi said:


> We are a peaceful country.



*LOL*



sweetgrape said:


> Vietnam has been accustomed to silent China, they thought China is weak and too busy to deal with it, hehe! playing as victim, are they? more vietnamese will cry, and louder, they need American ***, hehe!



very funny. China is crying when USA protect Taiwan now, he he.


----------



## EastSea

cirr said:


> What the heck。。。
> 
> PLA Chief of the General Staff Gen. Fang Fenghui having fun onboard USS's LCS：
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> while。。。。



he is sitting on but don't understand what is this. no big problem for laugh.


----------



## WuMaoCleverbot

*PH, Vietnam urged to unite vs China over sea dispute; protest set*
Julliane Love de Jesus and Coleen Aira Barnachea
INQUIRER.net
7:06 pm | Wednesday, May 14th, 2014

MANILA, Philippines – As the dispute escalates between China and its neighbor countries, including Vietnam and the Philippines, over the South China Sea, cause-oriented groups will take to the streets this Friday to protest China’s aggression.

*US Pinoys for Good Governance (USP4GG), Vietnamese Overseas Initiative for Conscience Empowerment (VOICE), Di Ka Pasisiil Movement, Filipinos Unite, and Akbayan-Youth urged Filipinos to join Vietnamese nationals in a protest against China’s territorial intrusion.*

Since China deployed a deep-water drilling rig in the disputed South China Sea, protests erupted in Vietnam.

“It is with great urgency that I ask the Filipinos to join Vietnamese community here in the Philippines in expressing our anger and disgust at this very, very Hitlerian impetus of China,” Loida Nicolas-Lewis, USP4GG chair, told reporters in a press briefing Wednesday.

*Lewis likened China to the oppressive Nazi party led by the German dictator Adolf Hitler for its “hegemony and imperialistic tendencies.”*

*“We remember in World War 2, Hitler says, ‘this is my last territorial demand. Austria is mine,” she said, noting that China’s aggression was similar to Hitler’s action that started the global war.*

“The reason why are holding this rally is to shame China. That’s why we have very, very strong words here because everybody knows what Hitler did to Europe,” she added.

Roilo Golez, former lawmaker and Di Ka Pasisiil Movement leader, said the Filipinos should also be alarmed with China’s aggressive stance against Vietnam.

*“If they’re going to succeed in threatening Vietnam, their next step, I’m sure, it’s going to be in our Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ),” Golez said.*

Hoi Trinh, VOICE founder, expressed in a statement that they were one with the Philippines against China’s defiance of the United National Convention on the Law of the Sea (Unclos).

“We object in the strongest possible terms, (especially) China’s deployment last week of deep sea oil rig known as HD-981 within Vietnam’s continental shelf,” Trinh said.

For the part of Filipinos Unite, group of Filipino-Americans in New York, member Knowa Lazarus said Southeast Asia was both the “home” of the Philippines and Vietnam, not of China.

“We have to draw the line and let people know that we will stand and fight for what we believe in,” Lazarus said.

Despite the criticisms against the recently-signed Enhanced Defense Cooperation Agreement (Edca), Ted Laguatan, USP4GG lawyer, stressed that the Philippines needed the US.

“Our national security demands that we should have help from ‎a superpower like US because we are facing a superpower like China. We do need Edca,” Laguatan said.

The groups will hold the demonstration in front of the Chinese Consulate at 330 Sen. Gen. Gil Puyat Avenue in Makati City.

An estimated 500 participants will be present to support the protest.


PH, Vietnam urged to unite vs China over sea dispute; protest set | Inquirer Global Nation

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## kankan326

When did these countries stop nagging at China? Seems they don't want to take a break.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Pangu

kankan326 said:


> When did these countries stop nagging at China? Seems they don't want to take a break.



It's customary for EU to back up America's rhetoric for a one-two punch, it's all in a days work. 

Back to drilling in the SCS.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## GR!FF!N

Beijing: China told the US on Tuesday not to get involved in its disputes in the South China Sea, a day after ticking off India for the same reason. It also accused Washington of provoking Vietnam and the Philippines to act against China. 
Chinese foreign minister Wang Yi asked US secretary of state John Kerry that his country must “avoid emboldening relevant parties’ provocative actions”. 
Kerry is said to have responded saying that the US takes no position or side on the issues of territorial sovereignty in the South China Sea, according to a transcript of the telephonic conversation released by the Chinese foreign ministry. Wang asked “the US to treat these issues with objectivity and fairness, live up to its commitment, watch its words and actions”, the foreign ministry said. 
Wang explained to Kerry the historical context the hard facts and China’s principles and positions on the South China Sea dispute, it said. China is sore about Vietnam’s attempts to stop a Chinese company from establishing an oil rig in a disputed area of the sea. It’s also angry at Philippines for arresting and charging 11 Chinese fishermen on what it regards as its own territory. 

Article Window

before any fanboy shows false bravado........



*US warns Beijing on South China Sea tensions*

The US has warned China that moving a drilling rig into seas disputed with Vietnam was "provocative".

In a telephone call, US Secretary of State John Kerry told Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi the US had "strong concerns" over recent developments.

Last week, Chinese and Vietnamese ships clashed over the drilling rig that China has placed in waters near the disputed Paracel Islands.

China and Manila are also at odds over overlapping territorial claims.

Beijing claims a U-shaped swathe of the South China Sea that covers areas other South East Asian nations say are their territory.

The issue has been rumbling in recent years amid an increasingly assertive stance from China over its claims.





Last week, several collisions were reported between Chinese and Vietnamese vessels in disputed waters as the Vietnamese ships sought to prevent the installation of the Chinese drilling rig.

Reports suggest the stand-off - involving dozens of ships - is continuing, with water cannon fire being exchanged.

On Sunday, anti-China protests took place in several Vietnamese cities. It is the most serious confrontation between the two nations for several years.

In Monday's telephone call, Mr Kerry "said China's introduction of an oil rig and numerous government vessels in waters disputed with Vietnam was provocative", US State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki said.

"He urged both sides to de-escalate tensions, ensure safe conduct by their vessels at sea, and resolve the dispute through peaceful means in accordance with international law."

Separately, in comments made at a meeting with the Singaporean foreign minister, Mr Kerry called the Chinese move an "aggressive act".

Mr Wang, meanwhile, urged Mr Kerry to be objective on the issue, a Chinese foreign ministry spokeswoman said.

Tensions between Beijing and Manila are also running high, after the Philippines arrested and then charged nine Chinese fishermen with poaching at a disputed shoal.


BBC News - US warns Beijing on South China Sea tensions
The Philippines is in the process of taking China to a UN court over its territorial claims.

It has also recently signed a new security deal with the US which would allow an expanded US troop presence, in a move seen as linked to Manila's deteriorating ties with Beijing.

On Tuesday, Chinese state media slammed the Philippines, saying that if it continued to challenge China it would pay "an unaffordable price".

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## GR!FF!N

xunzi said:


> Fact still remain. We drill just 17 miles off Paracel Island that we administer and the de facto owner.



doesn't matter.even if we take "Paracel" as China's island,still,its a common domain of Vietnamese and China's EEZ.and in this case,its the ritual to go to International Court of Arbitration to point out which region is whom.there are plenty of example of this kind...

Indo-Bangladesh-Myanmar Maritime Dispute....







Result....

Bangladesh and Myanmar resolve longstanding maritime dispute | East Asia Forum

while Indo-Bangladesh Maritime Dispute is under trial.

Chilean–Peruvian maritime dispute - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

overlapping boundary.






Status------Solved.


so,don't behave like thug,nor support thuggish behaviour.go and solve the dispute,and not using force.you'll push this smaller countries over your "Greed"(yes,thats what 9 dotted line is),the region will become highly unstable and its China who will find itself in difficult position,not Vietnam or Philippines.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## EastSea

xunzi said:


> Fact still remain. We drill just 17 miles off Paracel Island that we administer and the de facto owner.



china has thick face, so it does feel nothing.


----------



## VietHome

Brainsucker said:


> Lol, Chinese said the same as you. They claimed that Paracel and Spratley belong to them since Imperial era. So what is the difference between you and them? I can sympathize to your cause if you just stick on your de facto islands in the Spratley. It is your right. If they are harassed, you are a victim. More than that, you just another China but without muscle. What stop you from take over Malay, Brunei, Pinoy claim after you beat China?
> 
> Well yeah, beat French and US in your jungle. Try it again in SCS. Shoot those Arleigh Burke. And I guaranteed you won't have any ship at your harbor anymore. Because it is your jungle that made you win. You never win in a sea battle. And to be honest, the way you said about you beat France, US, China etc just make you look arrogance. If you are that superior, why do you even need the help another country. Face China yourself. you're the unbeat-able after all.
> 
> The Natuna problem is ours; not yours. We don't even cry for that. For us, that incident was a whip for our navy to become better and stronger. So don't worry about it.


The difference is, they are wrong and we are right. We have a huge collection of eveidences showing those islands are ours, even imperial Chinese's maps showing the border of the Qing Dynasty stops at Hainan.



xunzi said:


> We are a peaceful country.


Sure you are.


----------



## Zero_wing

Hahaha the blame game chinese swine great past time game


----------



## armchairPrivate

Zero_wing said:


> Hahaha the blame game chinese swine great past time game



Shouldn't you be picking mangoes?


----------



## Zero_wing

Wow is that your best you stupid chinese gigolo? Mangos really? far more better then usless chinese trash anyday


----------



## Zero_wing

More like all skulls no brain


----------



## Raphael

armchairPrivate said:


> Shouldn't you be picking mangoes?



He should be, because his other source of livelihood is about to end:

Has The End Of The Banana Arrived? | Popular Science

Hang in there pinoy economy, stay strong for your catholic deity.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## armchairPrivate

Drill Baby Drill. China is only listening to Sarah.


----------



## BDforever

GR!FF!N said:


> doesn't matter.even if we take "Paracel" as China's island,still,its a common domain of Vietnamese and China's EEZ.and in this case,its the ritual to go to International Court of Arbitration to point out which region is whom.there are plenty of example of this kind...
> 
> Indo-Bangladesh-Myanmar Maritime Dispute....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Result....
> 
> Bangladesh and Myanmar resolve longstanding maritime dispute | East Asia Forum
> 
> while Indo-Bangladesh Maritime Dispute is under trial.
> 
> Chilean–Peruvian maritime dispute - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> overlapping boundary.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Status------Solved.
> 
> 
> so,don't behave like thug,nor support thuggish behaviour.go and solve the dispute,and not using force.you'll push this smaller countries over your "Greed"(yes,thats what 9 dotted line is),the region will become highly unstable and its China who will find itself in difficult position,not Vietnam or Philippines.


we will get sea area from India from tribunal

Reactions: Like Like:

2


----------



## GR!FF!N

BDforever said:


> we will get sea area from India from tribunal



or else,you'll be trapped and at India's and Myanmar's mercy. 

BD didn't get much benefit from International tribunal against Myanmar they hoped.they barely got some territory.


----------



## itaskol

two 20000t bigger ship comes to protect the rig.
type 071 （998 ，999）

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## BDforever

GR!FF!N said:


> or else,you'll be trapped and at India's and Myanmar's mercy.
> 
> BD didn't get much benefit from International tribunal against Myanmar they hoped.they barely got some territory.


it was actually cut half of the claims and distributed equally between BD and Myanmar LOL
Actually india needs BD mercy , now sssssssshhhhhh


----------



## VietHome

Of course, bullying makes anyone look bad.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## armchairPrivate

What's the definition of "international" btw?

China will get what it wants.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## GeHAC

itaskol said:


> two 20000t bigger ship comes to protect the rig.
> type 071 （998 ，999）



Hope there are marines on board，good move.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

xunzi said:


> Fact still remain. We drill just 17 miles off Paracel Island that we administer and the de facto owner.


Firstly, Hoang Sa (Paracel) Islands was controlled by Vietnamese, China illegally occupied by force in 1974. Paracels belong to Vietnam but it is being illegally occupied by China 
Secondly, Paracel is ineligible to have EEZ like lands.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## sword1947

Krueger said:


> *14/05/2014
> 
> German press criticises China’s East Sea aggression*
> 
> A number of Germany’s major newspapers have continued to run articles on China’s illegal act of placing the Haiyang Shiyou-981 drilling rig in Vietnam’s exclusive economic zone and continental shelf.
> 
> The Der Spiegel newspaper in its May 13 publication quoted US Secretary of State John Kerry as saying that China has acted provocatively in disputes in the East Sea.
> 
> According the article, the Secretary of State held telephone talks with his Chinese counterpart Wang Yi to criticise Beijing’s aggressive deed and call on the country to solve the dispute by peaceful means in line with international law.
> 
> The article also inserted photos showing Chinese ships surrounding the rig ramming and firing water cannons at Vietnamese vessels and another on Vietnam’s international press conference on the situation.
> 
> Meanwhile, the Deutsch Welle newspaper also ran an article by Frank Sieren, who has lived in Beijing for 20 years.
> 
> In his article, Sieren wrote that tensions at sea between China and other countries have become more serious, with the placement of the rig in Vietnam’s exclusive economic zone following territorial disputes with Japan and the Philippines.
> 
> Demonstrations by Vietnamese people worldwide to oppose China’s illegal act in the East Sea were also covered in several German newspapers.
> 
> On May 2, China stationed the rig at 15 degrees 29 minutes 58 seconds north latitude and 111 degrees 12 minutes 06 seconds east longitude. The location is 80 nautical miles deep inside Vietnam’s exclusive economic zone and 119 nautical miles from Vietnam’s Ly Son island.
> 
> China has so far deployed 86 vessels of various kinds to the area, including military, coast guard, marine surveillance, marine patrol and fishing ships.
> 
> The provocative acts by China, including the ramming and firing of water cannons into Vietnamese coast guard ships during their law enforcement missions in the country’s waters have left many Vietnamese ships damaged and nine fisheries surveillance officers injured.
> 
> *East sea tension triggered by China is viewpoint of many countries*
> 
> The US State Department has confirmed that China’s aggressive action, causing tensions in the East China Sea, is fully recognized by many countries around the world.
> 
> Addressing the US State Department’s daily press briefing on May 13, spokesperson Jen Psaki denied accusations from China saying that the US involvement in the latest developments in the East Sea has undermined peace and stability in the region.
> 
> In response to a question raised by a Chinese reporter that the Chinese Foreign Ministry assessed the tensions in the East Sea were not caused by China, alleging the US has exaggerated the story, Jen Psaki said that the US stands united with many other countries, confirming that China’s provocative acts are the cause of rising tensions in the East Sea.
> 
> She also said that in a telephone conservation between US State Secretary John Kerry with Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Pham Binh Minh on May 11, Kerry expressed grave concern about tensions in the East Sea, called on restraint and once again shared the view that China's actions are provocative.
> 
> During the phone talks with both Vietnamese and Chinese FMs, Kerry also expressed his view that disputes should be resolved by peaceful means, Jen Psaki said.
> 
> *Mongolians strongly condemn China’s actions*
> 
> The Vietnam-Mongolia Friendship Association has issued a statement protesting China’s recent acts.
> 
> According to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the Vietnam-Mongolia Friendship Association issued a statement related to China’s stationing of drilling rig Ocean-981 and escort vessels in Vietnam’s exclusive economic zone and continental shelf.
> 
> In the statement, the association said that China’s unilateral actions have violated strongly international laws and threatened Vietnam’s sovereignty and security in the region.
> 
> China’s escalating actions towards Vietnam in the East Sea have also caused growing concern among its neighbouring countries.
> 
> *Washington Post asserts Chinese aggression challenges world order*
> 
> The Washington Post – the most widely circulated newspaper in Washington DC - on May 13 published a lead editorial asserting China’s giant drilling rig is a fundamental challenge to the world order.
> 
> Following are excerpts from the article:
> 
> “With a US$1 billion oil rig the size of a football field, China has literally laid down a new marker in its ambition to dominate the East Sea — and challenged President Obama’s “rebalancing” policy in Asia, only weeks after the president’s tour of the region.
> 
> The rig is about 130 miles off the coast of Vietnam, in waters that Vietnam claims as an exclusive economic zone under international law. China’s claim is more tenuous, but it is backed up with a flotilla of some 80 ships that for a week have engaged in a dangerous contest of ramming and water-hosing Vietnamese vessels.
> 
> An oil drilling rig of the China National Offshore Oil Corporation (CNOOC)
> 
> (Photo: Reuters)
> 
> The message of the deployment is as simple as it is provocative: The regime of Xi Jinping intends to unilaterally assert China’s sovereignty over almost all of the East Sea without regard for the competing claims of five other countries. The rigis a fundamental challenge to the international order the United States has tried to preserve since the end of the Cold War.
> 
> China’s ambitions are described by an audacious map, dating from the pre-Communist erathat claims some 80 percent of the East Sea and a number of island chains. For years Beijing has talked with those countries and others in Southeast Asia about establishing a code of conduct for the sea, and it discussed the possibility of joint development of oil and gas with Vietnam a few months ago.
> 
> The move of the oil rig appears to reflect a calculation that a more aggressive policy will not meet meaningful resistance from China’s neighbors or the United States. The target of the initiative is Vietnam.
> 
> The Vietnamese leadership has responded rather vigorously: In addition to the several dozen ships that are sparring with China’s near the rig, and Vietnam’s Prime Minister condemned China at a summit of Southeast Asian nations.
> 
> Vietnam could bring a case against China at an international tribunal under the Law of the Sea treaty. But Beijing is likely to shrug off that form of pressure. Most likely it will continue to act unilaterally in the region until it meets concerted resistance, whether diplomatic or military.”
> 
> *China escalating tensions in East Sea: French expert*
> 
> China is taking dangerous steps in the East Sea to scramble for marine territory on one hand, and intimidate Vietnam and the Philippines on the other, a French foreign policy expert has said.
> 
> The illegal placement of a Chinese drilling rig in Vietnam’s exclusive economic zone and continental shelf reflects a strategic continuation of recent Chinese acts, stated Professor Francois Godement, Director of the Asia and China Programme of the European Council on Foreign Relations.
> 
> He warned of the high risk of conflicts escalating in the region due to China’s recent acts, including its ships’ aggressive ramming of Vietnamese coast guard vessels.
> 
> It is clear that China has not respected international agreements and is ready to use force to solve territorial disputes, the professor noted.
> 
> Praising Vietnam’s restraint against China’s provocations, Godement said that in addition to connecting with more countries, Vietnam should seek legal solutions and try to avoid a military conflict.
> 
> He advised that Vietnam should build closer links with major partners such as the US, Japan, India, ASEAN and the EU to increase its diplomatic strength.
> 
> *Indian professor: China pursues “salami slicing” strategy in East Sea*
> 
> China has been pursuing what is known as 'salami slicing' strategy to occupy bit by bit the East Sea, an Indian professor has said.
> 
> According to Professor G. Vijayachandra Naidu, lecturer at the Centre for Indo-Pacific Studies under the Jawaharlal Nehru University in New Delhi, the strategy began in 1974 when it first grabbed Vietnam’s Hoang Sa (Paracel) archipelago.
> 
> Since then, China has been occupying bit by bit the East Sea, which is not only geostrategically a pivotal area in the region but also known to possess vast natural resources, especially energy, he said.
> 
> China has managed to occupy most parts of the East Sea over the past 40 years, but still claiming the so-called nine-dot line, which is extremely vague and ambiguous, he added.
> 
> “The present incident of Chinese ships ramming Vietnamese boats clearly in the territorial waters of Vietnam by indulging in oil exploration activities is serious,” Naidu noted, adding that the next move might be that with the pretext of defending its interests, China might even station naval warships.
> 
> The professor said it is essential that ASEAN takes a firm position unless China stops all these kinds of activities of forcibly occupying the islands bit by bit.
> 
> Vietnam in particular should hold meetings and consultations with political leaders and experts to raise the awareness and also to bring to the fore the facts of the dispute and to mobilise the support across all sections, he advised.
> 
> *VN-France Friendship Association condemns China’s incursion*
> 
> In an open letter to the Vietnamese embassy in France on May 13, the Vietnam-France Friendship Association (VFFA) strongly repudiated the foray by China into the territorial waters of Vietnam.
> 
> The incursion by China into the economic exclusive zone and continental shelf of Vietnam runs counter to international law, the VFFA said, expressing “deep concern” over the assault.
> 
> Disputes between Vietnam and China over sovereignty of the Hoang Sa (Paracel) and Truong Sa (Spratly) Archipelagos must not be resolved militarily and should be amicably resolved in accordance with the precepts of international law, especially in a manner consistent with the basic tenets of the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS).
> 
> The press release called on China to extract its oil rig from Vietnam’s territorial waters and put an end to the wrongful episode, respecting commitments of the 2002 Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the East Sea (DOC).
> 
> Additionally, the charitable association Amis France-Vietnam sent a telegram to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the Vietnam Union of Friendship Organisations (VUFO) and the Vietnamese Embassy in France strongly protesting China’s violation over Vietnam’s sovereignty.
> 
> *NGOs concern about China’s illegal acts
> *
> Foreign non-governmental organisations (NGOs) have expressed their deep concern about China’s serious violation in Vietnam’s territorial waters.
> 
> The Vietnam Union of Friendship Organisations (VUFO) on May 13 held a discussion on the recent developments in the East Sea with representatives from non-governmental organizations in Hanoi.
> 
> The event was attended by speakers and 300 delegates including representatives from organizations operating in Vietnam and domestic and foreign media agencies.
> 
> Speakers shared history, legal aspects as well as recent developments in the East Sea with special emphasis placed on China’s illegal installation of its drilling rig Ocean- 981 in Vietnam’s waters which is a serious violation of the sovereign rights and jurisdiction over the exclusive economic zone and continental shelf of Vietnam.
> 
> This move is illegal and goes against international law and practices, especially the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the East Sea (DOC), and the agreements reached by the two nations’ senior leaders.
> 
> Le Van Cuong, International Relations researcher said never before has the international community took action against China’s violation as swiftly as this time.
> 
> Infringement of China has negatively affected political trust and aspects of cooperation between the two countries, hurting the feeling of the Vietnamese people, raising regional and international public’s deep concern about threat to the environment of peace and stability in the region and the world.
> 
> Consequently, NGOs called on all concerned parties to exercise restraint, persistently promote negotiations on the basis of respect for international law and issue a statement asking the UN and ASEAN to take measures to put an end to the dispute in the East Sea as soon as possible.
> 
> China’s withdrawal of its drilling rig and escort vessels out of Vietnam’s waters will contribute to stabilizing regional and global peaceful environment.
> 
> Also at the meeting, many representatives and individuals signed their names in support of a statement on China’s illegal installment of its drilling rig and violation of Vietnam’s exclusive economic zone and continental shelf.
> 
> m.english.vietnamnet.vn/fms/government/102305/international-voices-raised-to-oppose-china-s-acts.html#



A little less conversation, a little more action please!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cnleio

Pics from Vietnam news: 
*Giàn khoan 981 đang được phong tỏa như thế nào*


----------



## cnleio




----------



## tomluter

Why our LPD there?


----------



## tranquilium

I would like to point out the same newspapers have been "rising voice" against US invasion of Iraq and look how that one went down.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## tranquilium

Look, China has been ticking off US since 1950 just by existing. This is nothing new and won't stop in the foreseeable future.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Yeti

These Hans have big time insecurity issues


----------



## BoQ77

who start the collision strategy? 
chinese Lst kunlunshan vs Uss Cowpen?
same colliding applied to any other by Chinese.
I could carefully comment that China created dangers to maritime security in the region?


----------



## BoQ77

same question, why Chinese warships and military aircrafts there?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Beast

Rechoice said:


> good opportunity to condemn China.



Condemm with lacking an action is useless.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## TaiShang

Rechoice said:


> good opportunity to condemn China.



Wasn't that clear that it was coming, my friend -- that you would be snubbed and your hysteria would be ignored?

If a similar fate befell on Japan, I would not be surprised.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

*White House urges dialogue, not intimidation in China rig dispute*
By David Brunnstrom and Steve Holland

WASHINGTON Wed May 14, 2014 7:13pm EDT

5 Comments

inShare
Share this
Email
Print





Chinese oil rig Haiyang Shi You 981 (C) is seen surrounded by ships of China Coast Guard in the South China Sea, about 210 km (130 miles) off shore of Vietnam May 14, 2014.

Credit: Reuters/Nguyen Ha Minh


*Related Topics*

World »
China »

(Reuters) - The White House said on Wednesday that a dispute between China and Vietnam that erupted within days of President Barack Obama's visit to Asia to address regional tensions needs to be resolved with dialogue, not intimidation.

While the United States was not a party to the dispute, White House spokesman Jay Carney said Obama had repeatedly stressed on his trip last month the need for peaceful dialogue on various disputes involving China and the South China Sea.

The renewed tension between Vietnam and China underscores one of the biggest challenges in Asia facing Obama, who is under pressure by America's allies to accelerate a "pivot" of military assets to the region to counter China's rising influence.

Russia's annexation of Ukraine's Crimea peninsula - and perceptions of limited U.S. options to get Moscow to back down - have heightened unease in parts of Asia over whether Beijing will be emboldened to use force to pursue its territorial claims in the East and South China Seas.

The standoff in the South China Sea and anti-China violence in tightly controlled Vietnam have raised fears of an escalation in tensions between the Communist-ruled neighbors, which fought a brief but bloody border war in 1979.

Such disputes "need to be resolved through dialogue, not through intimidation," Carney told a regular briefing. "We again urge dialogue in their resolution."

An Asian diplomat said it was important that Washington took a firm line with Beijing while also using its influence with Vietnam to calm the mood.

He said the concern among Southeast Asian countries was that China was seeking incremental gains in provoking a series of crises with its neighbors, a tactic that could eventually change the regional landscape unless it was met with a resolute response.

Thousands of Vietnamese set fire to foreign factories they believed to be Chinese on Tuesday in an angry reaction to Chinese oil drilling in a part of the South China Sea claimed by Vietnam, officials said.

The confrontation blew up after China moved a giant oil rig into an area of the South China Sea also claimed by Vietnam. Dozens of ships from both countries are around the rig and the two sides have accused each other of intentional collisions, increasing the risk of open confrontation.

The U.S. State Department said it was monitoring events in Vietnam closely, and urged restraint from all parties, while adding: "We support the right of individuals to assemble peacefully to protest."

'NEW REALITY'

The White House statement comes as Obama's policy toward Asia has come under some criticism at home for being more rhetoric than substance.

The current crisis erupted within days of a week-long visit to Asia by Obama in late April in which he pledged that Washington would live up to its obligation to defend its allies in the region.

The foreign minister of Singapore, a close U.S. ally and one of Vietnam's partners in the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN), said in a speech in Washington on Tuesday that China's rapid rise had already changed the regional dynamic.

"I note that the U.S. is trying to urge all claimants not to resort to aggression and has called for a reduction of tensions," the minister, K. Shanmugam, said.

"To some extent, this reflects the new reality. The U.S. now needs the co-operation of others and asks for it. As opposed to the post World War Two situation, when the U.S. could impose its will."

Ernest Bower, of the Center for Strategic and International Studies think tank, called the violence in Vietnam "troubling" and the risk of escalation real.

"I think either China or Vietnam will find a way to back down from this one ... or I think you do end up with some sort of conflict," he said.

Vietnamese resentment against China runs deep, rooted in feelings of national pride and the struggle for independence after decades of war and more than 1,000 years of Chinese colonial rule that ended in the 10th century. Chinese forces invaded northern Vietnam in 1979 and border skirmishes continued into the 1980s.

(Reporting by Steve Holland and Mark Felsenthal; Editing by Bill Trott and Eric Walsh)

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## bolo

kankan326 said:


> When did these countries stop nagging at China? Seems they don't want to take a break.


It's the usual suspects, nothing new under the sun. A lot of bark, no bite.



BoQ77 said:


> who start the collision strategy?
> chinese Lst kunlunshan vs Uss Cowpen?
> same colliding applied to any other by Chinese.
> I could carefully comment that China created dangers to maritime security in the region?


You can but no one will listen to a viet cry. Not even Kim Phuc.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## chhota bheem

I feel china should play it down,its not doing them any good.whats the point in getting other countries worried by the claims.

But what ever is happening,and showing china in not so positive light.And the last few incidents make me feel as if its going as per the script of someone.and that some who is trying to bring all the countries to group up against china before moving in,but who is that ?


----------



## Rechoice

Beast said:


> Condemm with lacking an action is useless.



hooligan chinese can noy understand.


----------



## Beast

Rechoice said:


> hooligan chinese can noy understand.


 Viernam is also acting like gangster but an impotent with no power one.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Beast

chhota bheem said:


> I feel china should play it down,its not doing them any good.whats the point in getting other countries worried by the claims.
> 
> But what ever is happening,and showing china in not so positive light.And the last few incidents make me feel as if its going as per the script of someone.and that some who is trying to bring all the countries to group up against china before moving in,but who is that ?



They will not. China has too much trade which many reply on. Only country who do not care about their progress with go against China. China is called world factory for a reason.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## TaiShang

VietHome said:


> Of course, bullying makes anyone look bad.



This is not bullying. This is throwing a tugboat in front of a formidable Coast Guard vessel.


----------



## Rechoice

Beast said:


> Viernam is also acting like gangster but an impotent with no power one.



telling about power, showing his muscle is altitude of hooligan.


----------



## BDforever

Rechoice said:


> telling about power, showing his muscle is altitude of hooligan.


china ! !  china ! ! china ! ! 





















------ lets see your reaction to my post

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## bolo

chhota bheem said:


> I feel china should play it down,its not doing them any good.whats the point in getting other countries worried by the claims.
> 
> But what ever is happening,and showing china in not so positive light.And the last few incidents make me feel as if its going as per the script of someone.and that some who is trying to bring all the countries to group up against china before moving in,but who is that ?


It's the Vietnamese that are losing their cool not China. China has the right to drill there. Vietcong government know this, but want to save face. They send ships to harass, but did not work. They allowed people to riot but when it got out of hand, they stepped in. Damage has already been done and foreign companies will seek punitive damages totaling billions. Worse, foreign investors will think twice before going to Vietnam now.
Some factories will shut down for weeks, putting more poor Vietnamese out of work.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

TaiShang said:


> This is not bullying. This is throwing a tugboat in front of a formidable Coast Guard vessel.



what is idiot formidable Coast Guard vessel is here when it invaded in to other country EZZ and try to steal oil from there. ?


----------



## TaiShang

Rechoice said:


> telling about power, showing his muscle is altitude of hooligan.



I think you misunderstood the meaning of hooliganism.

It mostly arises from "outnumbering others," not "beating the other singularly." So, hooliganism is sort of an insect/mass mentality -- swarming the strong one with countless little ones.

In this case, by trying to rally the Pinoy and Japan against China, Vietnam is acting like a hooligan.

Remember, hooliganism is not about being able to beat others. In fact, it is often the hooligan*s* that got beaten in the end.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## bolo

Rechoice said:


> telling about power, showing his muscle is altitude of hooligan.


Destroying your economy is the nature of Vietnamese?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## TaiShang

Rechoice said:


> what is idiot formidable Coast Guard vessel is here when it invaded in to other country EZZ and try to steal oil from there. ?



OK. Going back to square one, it is China's EEZ, not yours.


----------



## Rechoice

bolo said:


> Destroying your economy is the nature of Vietnamese?



idiot question, kid.


----------



## Rechoice

TaiShang said:


> OK. Going back to square one, it is China's EEZ, not yours.



Chinese is liar, big liar.


----------



## bolo

Rechoice said:


> idiot question, kid.


That's what ultranationalist viets are doing little boy. What are they thinking ? Do viets think they are on the same level as China?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

bolo said:


> That's what ultranationalist viets are doing little boy. What are they thinking ? Do viets think they are on the same level as China?



what is low educated chinese troll here ? The difference is that aggressive hooligan chinese is not considered on the same level with other people in the world,


----------



## NiceGuy

bolo said:


> It's the Vietnamese that are losing their cool not China. China has the right to drill there. Vietcong government know this, but want to save face. They send ships to harass, but did not work. They allowed people to riot but when it got out of hand, they stepped in. Damage has already been done and foreign companies will seek punitive damages totaling billions. Worse, foreign investors will think twice before going to Vietnam now.
> Some factories will shut down for weeks, putting more poor Vietnamese out of work.


Set fire to the factories is bad. But on the optimistic aspect, it show to the world that small and lonely VN dare to fight against big bad China -the bullier 

And the most funny things is that : the others foreign factories said :"we r not Chinese dont destroy of factories, we support Paracel and Spratly belong to VietNam"

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## bolo

Rechoice said:


> what is low educated chinese troll here ? The difference is that aggressive hooligan chinese is not considered on the same level with other people in the world,


Yes, Chinese on a higher playing field than you people,

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## bolo

NiceGuy said:


> Set fire to the factories is bad. But on the optimistic aspect, it show to the world that small and lonely VN dare to fight against big bad China -the bullier
> 
> And the most funny things is that : the others foreign factories said :"we r not Chinese dont destroy of factories, we support Paracel and Spratly belong to VietNam"


Assuming what u say is true, which i doubt, people surrounded by crazy viet mobs will do anything to get out of a bad situation. If i point a gun in your face, you be begging me,"daddy, please don't hurt me. I'll suck your dick."

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## terranMarine

bolo said:


> Assuming what u say is true, which i doubt, people surrounded by crazy viet mobs will do anything to get out of a bad situation. If i point a gun in your face, you be begging me,"daddy, please don't hurt me. I'll suck your dick."



In fact foreign factories have been damaged by these baboons, he is just blinded and can only see Chinese factories being demolished.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ephone

If China really want to show you the power, you think we only have water canon??? We have been quite restraint. 

If it is U.S. now in China's shoes, guess what you will get.

Well, I guess you should have already known from the past. 



Rechoice said:


> telling about power, showing his muscle is altitude of hooligan.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## NiceGuy

bolo said:


> Assuming what u say is true, which i doubt, people surrounded by crazy viet mobs will do anything to get out of a bad situation. If i point a gun in your face, you be begging me,"daddy, please don't hurt me. I'll suck your dick."


In this situation, No one can threaten u if u immediate go home before the protest happen.

Okay, lets see the notice: it write: HARRIS FREEMAN company 100 % US investment . We support you in SCS(east sea).(Chúng tôi ủng hộ Việt Nam trong vấn đề Biển Đông)

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Snomannen

NiceGuy said:


> In this situation, No one can threaten u if u immediate go home before the protest happen.
> 
> Okay, lets see the notice: it write: HARRIS FREEMAN company 100 % US investment . We support you in SCS(east sea).(Chúng tôi ủng hộ Việt Nam trong vấn đề Biển Đông)


That isn't even a correct flag of the US.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## NiceGuy

KirovAirship said:


> That isn't even a correct flag of the US.


Maybe its China company, who knows, they r just too scared and forgot to print the correct flag

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

bolo said:


> Yes, Chinese on a higher playing field than you people,



playing field for such hooligans is criminal world, not for normal humankind.



ephone said:


> If China really want to show you the power, you think we only have water canon??? We have been quite restraint.
> If it is U.S. now in China's shoes, guess what you will get.
> Well, I guess you should have already known from the past.



WE know it, if it would be necessary, china will knee before US like you did in the past 1972, 1979.


----------



## RAMPAGE

All these "International voices" can do is bitch !!!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Rechoice

RAMPAGE said:


> All these "International voices" can do is bitch !!!



do Pak govt support officially China ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## RAMPAGE

Rechoice said:


> do Pak govt support officially China ?


Always !!!

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Snomannen

NiceGuy said:


> Maybe its China company, who knows, they r just too scared and forgot to print the correct flag



Or they are actually Vietnamese employed by American and that poster was printed by local worker under his boss' order

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NiceGuy

KirovAirship said:


> Or they are actually Vietnamese employed by American and that poster was printed by local worker under his boss' order


Thats why I said: " set fire on the factories is bad, but on the optimistic aspect, we also gain some thing like the support in SCS(east sea) from foreign companies in VN

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## bolo

NiceGuy said:


> In this situation, No one can threaten u if u immediate go home before the protest happen.
> 
> Okay, lets see the notice: it write: HARRIS FREEMAN company 100 % US investment . We support you in SCS(east sea).(Chúng tôi ủng hộ Việt Nam trong vấn đề Biển Đông)





KirovAirship said:


> Or they are actually Vietnamese employed by American and that poster was printed by local worker under his boss' order


They wanted to save printing ink by leaving a few stars out. Failed.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Soryu

Open in 720p, you can see it very clear: type 071 LPD.


----------



## itaskol

Soryu said:


> Open in 720p, you can see it very clear: type 071 LPD.


More ships will coming soon, frigate ,destroyer 
The PLA in Vietnamese Chinese border increase readiness posture.


----------



## Soryu

itaskol said:


> More ships will coming soon, frigate ,destroyer
> The PLA in Vietnamese Chinese border increase readiness posture.


Maybe, game still on ...


----------



## Beidou2020

The oil rig is still drilling in the SCS.
Vietnam destroyed all its businesses.

End result: Vietnam lost everything.


----------



## Rechoice

RAMPAGE said:


> Always !!!



pls provide the link, what did pak govt official said ?



Beidou2020 said:


> The oil rig is still drilling in the SCS.
> Vietnam destroyed all its businesses.
> 
> End result: Vietnam lost everything.



There is no oil, what lost china in this idiot game ? just show of her true face, idiot hooligan.


----------



## Krueger

15/05/2014

_VietNamNet Bridge – The Vietnamese Government can sue China in the International Court of the Law of the Sea, while the Vietnam Oil and Gas Group (PetroVietnam) may sue the China National Offshore Oil Corporation (CNOOC) in the civil court of Vietnam. So says Attorney Hoang Ngoc Giao, Director of the Institute for Legal Policy and Development._


_



_

_Lawyer Hoang Ngoc Giao._

*Q: In the past 10 days, despite the objections of the government and people of Vietnam and the condemnation of the international community, Chinese ships and aircraft have continued to attack and intimidate Vietnamese vessels in the exclusive economic zone (EEZ) of Vietnam. What do you think about these actions?*

HNG: These actions are not commensurate with a civilized state and a country with international responsibilities such as China, which is a permanent member of the United Nations Security Council (UNSC).

Chinese marine police ships intentionally rammed the vessels of Vietnam’s marine police in the East Sea, but then the Chinese government slandered Vietnam in claiming that our ships repeatedly rammed theirs. This is a deceptive statement. China's actions harassed and threatened maritime security and safety in a manner that is inversely proportional to the stature of China, a country which, as a permanent member of the UN Security Council, has a responsibility for maintaining world peace.

*Q: In addition to diplomatic measures and peaceful demonstrations, what could Vietnam do?*

HNG: Given the fact that China has used force to violate the sovereignty and sovereign rights in the continental shelf of Vietnam, we have made diplomatic moves. Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung called it "dangerous actions" at the 24th ASEAN Summit in Myanmar. However, we have not taken legal actions yet.

Vietnam supports peaceful measures, but this is no longer a matter for negotiation because this is a case about rights and sovereignty over waters that are identified as belonging to Vietnam. China’s misconduct took place repeatedly and seriously. These are clear evidence, not administrative acts like unilaterally declaring an area prohibited from fishing. Vietnam must urgently carry out legal procedures to sue China in the international court.

*Q: Which court would handle the lawsuit between Vietnam and China?*

HNG: Vietnam may pursue two lawsuits. The first is the lawsuit between countries. The government of Vietnam can sue the Chinese government. Vietnam can set records and procedures prescribed by the International Maritime Law Court to sue China for its infringement of Vietnam in the exclusive economic zone and continental shelf of Vietnam. On a broader scale, we can sue China for its violation of Vietnam’s sovereignty over the Hoang Sa and Truong Sa Islands in the International Court of Justice of the United Nations.

Under the provisions of the International Court of Justice, only when both parties accept the jurisdiction of the court, will the court then consider the case. We can foresee China not accepting the jurisdiction of the Court of International Justice. In that event, the whole world will bear witness to the good will of Vietnam and see more clearly that the claims, arguments and evidence of China are baseless.

The second case is a civil action. The Vietnam Oil and Gas Group may sue the China National Offshore Oil Corporation for causing economic losses to it in Vietnamese court. The Vietnam court has the jurisdiction and even enforcement rights in this case. Chinese oil exploration ships operating in Vietnam’s waters can be seized to ensure the enforcement of the judgment.

*Q: What does Vietnam have to do to prepare for the legal war against China?*

HNG: The first thing is that we have to collect and prepare records, proof of ownership and sovereignty of Vietnam over the East Sea. To do this task, we not only need a team of experts and good lawyers, but also require financial resources.

*Q: What do you think about Vietnam’s ability to win in the case?*

HNG: I believe that the confirmation of China’s acts of infringing on the exclusive economic zone, sovereignty and sovereign rights of Vietnam is a sure win. For the sovereignty of the islands, Vietnam can win on the front of law, international convention and historical evidence. We will have recognition of our sovereignty in the international tribunals.

*Q: How can Vietnam benefit from taking China to the international court?*

HNG: I think that it is completely beneficial for Vietnam. It benefits Vietnam’s diplomatic and legal struggle and it shows the righteousness of the government of Vietnam by working to settle all disputes and conflicts by peaceful means, not by force.

_Source: VNE_

_English - VietNamNet News_

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Beidou2020

Rechoice said:


> pls provide the link, what did pak govt official said ?
> 
> 
> 
> There is no oil, what lost china in this idiot game ? just show of her true face, idiot hooligan.



What we showed is that Vietnam can't do a damn thing if we decided to drill right on the Vietnamese coast if necessary.


----------



## ViXuyen



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NiceGuy

Beidou2020 said:


> What we showed is that Vietnam can't do a damn thing if we decided to drill right on the Vietnamese coast if necessary.


Right, maybe we can not do anything to stop ur oil rig coz we have less ship than u, and bcz u dont shoot at us, so we cant use anti-ship missile to sink ur ships. But the world can see that we dare to fight against big bad China and we will gain more support from the world.

We hope to have a closer relationship with US and EU soon after this issue.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

Beidou2020 said:


> What we showed is that Vietnam can't do a damn thing if we decided to drill right on the Vietnamese coast if necessary.



Its robbery action of chinese hooligans


----------



## Beidou2020

NiceGuy said:


> Right, maybe we can not do anything to stop ur oil rig coz we have less ship than u, and bcz u dont shoot at us, so we cant use anti-ship missile to sink ur ships. But the world can see that we dare to fight against big bad China and we will gain more support from the world.
> 
> We hope to have a closer relationship with US and EU soon after this issue.



Vietnam is powerless to stop China, we exposed you.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NiceGuy

Beidou2020 said:


> Vietnam is powerless to stop China, we exposed you.


U violate the international law of sea, so, let the whole world denounce u first.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## applesauce

madokafc said:


> Correct me if I am Wrong
> 
> China must maintain the large number of their Platform weapons in several fronts at once, not only two or three but at least four Front
> 
> 1. They must keep a large number of their missile forces, land forces and Fighter jets against India border
> 2. They must keep a large number of their missile forces, Naval assets and fighter jets against Japan and possibly US 7th fleet near Senkaku Island and Okinawa
> 3. They must keep a large number of their missile forces, Naval assets and fighter jets against Taiwan and almost surely US intervention near Taiwan Strait
> 4. They must keep considerable number of their land troops, missile forces and jet fighter near North Korean border, to prevent refugee intruding, and possibly Korean Peninsular Conflict
> 5. They must keep a considerable maybe small number of their Land forces, and Air Forces assets near Russian border to keep a parity against their (Russian Armed Forces) assets there.
> 6. They must keep a considerable large number of their Naval and Air Forces assets in South China Sea Region, possibly against Vietnam and Philippine
> 
> You've got your hand's full, and yet you still wanna to make a new problems against Indonesia and several other ASEAN member such as Myanmar (by backing several rebellion there) and Malaysia. China think they are John Wayne or Johny Rambo, it's very funny.



1. no, actually the india-tibet border is one of the lightest defended borders in china(numbers wise), why is this you ask? because given the terrain, there no use to station a ton of troops unless war has already broken out, any major move by india could be spotted way before they are ready given the difficulties of getting everything up there. furthermore heavy tanks is all but useless there, so any combate is likely to involve a very small number of forces and almost no heavy equipment.

2/3 china does keep a large number of missiles and the north sea fleet basically all for japan, china also does keep a lot of missile and the east sea fleet at taiwan area. but heres the thing, china has a heck of alot of missiles.

4. this is where the best chinese divisions are stationed, the force there is trained and equipped to fight a standard american division one on one.

5. the force in point 4 is basically the same one for point 5. given its the same area.

6. surely you have heard of the south sea fleet?

you are assumming the situation is equally bad for china on all front. fact is china-russia relations are on the up and up, threat of war is extremely remote. large scale combat with india is also extremely unlikely. and PRC-ROC tries are currently amicable with a very remote chance of serious tensions at the moment. therefore it leaves two problem areas, namely the north east with possible NK situation and japan, and the south with the various island disputes. this is hardly unmanageable.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Beidou2020

NiceGuy said:


> U violate the international law of sea, so, let the whole world denounce u first.



We take criticism and get the oil.

Great deal for us.


----------



## Beidou2020

@Krueger 

You must be working for the US intelligence agencies. Snowden revealed they have people like you going to forums and doing exactly the things you are doing.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## NiceGuy

Beidou2020 said:


> We take criticism and get the oil.
> 
> Great deal for us.


Okay, u violate the law to get the oil, and we get the support from the world. Its a good chance for VN to have a closer relationship with US-EU and get more advance tech from them to get richer and stronger


----------



## Beidou2020

NiceGuy said:


> Okay, u violate the law to get the oil, and we get the support from the world. Its a good chance for VN to have a closer relationship with US-EU and get more advance tech from them to get richer and stronger



Who is stopping you?

Go right ahead.

btw, we are drilling in our EEZ.


----------



## NiceGuy

Beidou2020 said:


> Who is stopping you?
> 
> Go right ahead.
> 
> btw, we are drilling in our EEZ.


What we want now is the support from the World, and the better relationship with US-EU to get richer. We wanna get rich first. Understood ??

The oil rig issue can be solved later


----------



## applesauce

ViXuyen said:


> Points are addressed above, you hold ZERO advantage over our airforc and navy over the Spratly; that's the reason why you did not even dare to attack us when we were in the 90's



ooh this is rich hahaha, so china dared to attack in the 70's and the 80's but suddenly china didnt "dare" to attack in the 90s, what did vietnam get weapons from atlantis in the 90s? fact is china has acted again and again to defend its interest when they are threaten. it did so in the 50s fighting a conventional war against the UN led by the US, it did so in 62 in response to the indian forward policy, it did so in the 70s to demonstrate vietnam-soviet alliance was worthless, it did so in 80s with the naval skirmishes, it just so happens that more recently no one has so openly challenged china's core interests therefore no open war was necessary, the 90s saw the fall of the soviets so a major threat disappeared, and more minor threats such as vietnam did not warrent war. 



ViXuyen said:


> The distant between Hainan to the Spatly is about 1500 km while the combat range of the Flankers and its variants is 2000 km; 3000+ km is just ferry range. Yes, you will need serious refuel to go to Spratly. Hence, you can only put a limited # of jets all in once at the same time which will limit your numerical superiority over us. And get real please, you have more jets but many more enemies to deal with and more territory to guard. If there is military conflict, it will be between the Guangzhou Military District's airforce at most. My estimate is that at best you can put 10 jets all in once at the same time.
> 
> 
> Does it look to you like we're losing sleep over your airforce having any kind of advantage over us in the Spratly? Had we converted 6 submarines into 60 Flankers, we would have had 96 Flankers at the moment but we chose not to because your airforce was never viewed as the biggest threat to us.
> 
> 
> 
> Who told you that the Kh-59MK is 120 km?. The Russian sold us the Yakhont at 300 km so you would better believe that the Kh-50mk is 285 km. The Migs21 can carry two a2a missiles to attack you while you are doing refueling or on your one way mission back to base, my friend
> 
> 
> 
> Do you know how the curvature of the earth blocks radar detection range? If our Su22 fly at 200 meters above sea level, your radar can only pick us up at 80 km. At that range, we're already in the range of the KH-31 missiles to launch at your ship Horizon calculator - radar and visual You want to talk about how your navy can sink our navy in a ship to ship engagement? Sorry to disappoint you but the curvature of the earth won't allow your radar to pick us up earlier and vice versa. In a ship to ship engagement, our missile boats can fire 16 kh-35 missiles at you and God helps you if you can engage those missiles from all directions



.

let us assume, that all of the above is true (and i dont agree with much of it, but regardless) would you agree that building major bases right in the island group would solve all of the above problems for china?




ViXuyen said:


> Ok, our subs can use to launch anti-ship missiles then.



yea and i already said subs are more dangerous than anything else vietnam has. unfortunately for you however, china has operated kilos for far longer than vietnam and has far more subs of all type to play this game.





ViXuyen said:


> Since you mention that you're going to put your SAMs on the Spartly reefs, I can tell you that a 150km rocket can take them out with ease because all the reefs/islands in this area are very close to each other, sometimes just a few nautical miles apart. We can park our S-300 on the Spratly to provide extra air cover for our airforce while you hopelessly trying to park your SAM on a congested reefs; good luck with that




lol right so you are somehow gonna magically park rockets and sams on islands(your transport ships are magically invincible to chinese subs, cruise missile, air force, and navy i guess lol), while china with its far larger and better air force/navy cant do the same? lol china actually has 1000 km+ range cruise missiles in additions to srbm, like it or not, the entire island group is within range of a ton of chinese weapons and even more so when an airbase is built

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NiceGuy

Rumor said China army is in alert level 3 and mobilizing near VN-China's border........VN tanks also mobilizing


> QUỐC TẾ
> *Về thông tin Trung Quốc báo động chiến đấu cấp 3 ở biên giới*
> 
> HỒNG THỦY1 thảo luận15/05/14 10:21
> (GDVN)- Nếu thông tin này đúng sự thật thì đây tiếp tục là một động thái khiêu khích của nhà cầm quyền Trung Quốc, chúng ta cần hết sức cảnh giác.
> Về thông tin Trung Quốc báo động chiến đấu cấp 3 ở biên giới - Quốc tế - Giáo dục Việt Nam


----------



## Beidou2020

NiceGuy said:


> What we want now is the support from the World, and the better relationship with US-EU to get richer. We wanna get rich first. Understood ??
> 
> The oil rig issue can be solved later



Vietnam will never be as rich as China.


----------



## Fukuoka

Says JEW USA never answering for their war crimes in all continents, using especially forbidden weapons


----------



## cnleio

In 2008, American might say the same words to Georgia.

*Georgia have to do to prepare for the legal war against Russia.*

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## ViXuyen

applesauce said:


> ooh this is rich hahaha, so china dared to attack in the 70's and the 80's but suddenly china didnt "dare" to attack in the 90s, what did vietnam get weapons from atlantis in the 90s? fact is china has acted again and again to defend its interest when they are threaten. it did so in the 50s fighting a conventional war against the UN led by the US, it did so in 62 in response to the indian forward policy, it did so in the 70s to demonstrate vietnam-soviet alliance was worthless, it did so in 80s with the naval skirmishes, it just so happens that more recently no one has so openly challenged china's core interests therefore no open war was necessary, the 90s saw the fall of the soviets so a major threat disappeared, and more minor threats such as vietnam did not warrent war.
> 
> The reason why China has not attacked Vietnam in the Spratly because China knows that Vietnam holds the military advantage
> 
> let us assume, that all of the above is true (and i dont agree with much of it, but regardless) would you agree that building major bases right in the island group would solve all of the above problems for china?
> 
> Nope, a base in the Spratly that you build out of a reef can easily be taken out by our EXTRA rocket or ballistic missiles; that is assuming that you can even build a base that can support take off and landing and a base that can house even a few jets.
> 
> yea and i already said subs are more dangerous than anything else vietnam has. unfortunately for you however, china has operated kilos for far longer than vietnam and has far more subs of all type to play this game.
> 
> Unfortunately for you Vietnam also has submarines to counter the sub force of your South Sea Fleet. Most of your subs in the south sea fleet are cold war relic.
> 
> lol right so you are somehow gonna magically park rockets and sams on islands(your transport ships are magically invincible to chinese subs, cruise missile, air force, and navy i guess lol), while china with its far larger and better air force/navy cant do the same? lol china actually has 1000 km+ range cruise missiles in additions to srbm, like it or not, the entire island group is within range of a ton of chinese weapons and even more so when an airbase is built
> 
> We have real islands in the Spratly here, buddy. Our transport vessels have been carrying supplies and troops to the Spratly islands eveyday and up till NOW you don't even know what we have transported to the Spratly. You can try to pound our real islands with whatever you wish but we just pound your "sea base" with our own ballistic missiles and EXTRA rockets and your entire operation in the Spratly will cease immediately. You rely on a sea base to operate while we don't; that is even assuming that you can build a sea base in the Spratly
> 
> I'm not losing sleep over any military conflict over the Spratly or even the Paracel with you guys


My rebuttals above


----------



## ViXuyen

applesauce said:


> 1. no, actually the india-tibet border is one of the lightest defended borders in china(numbers wise), why is this you ask? because given the terrain, there no use to station a ton of troops unless war has already broken out, any major move by india could be spotted way before they are ready given the difficulties of getting everything up there. furthermore heavy tanks is all but useless there, so any combate is likely to involve a very small number of forces and almost no heavy equipment.
> 
> 2/3 china does keep a large number of missiles and the north sea fleet basically all for japan, china also does keep a lot of missile and the east sea fleet at taiwan area. but heres the thing, china has a heck of alot of missiles.
> 
> 4. this is where the best chinese divisions are stationed, the force there is trained and equipped to fight a standard american division one on one.
> 
> 5. the force in point 4 is basically the same one for point 5. given its the same area.
> 
> 6. surely you have heard of the south sea fleet?
> 
> you are assumming the situation is equally bad for china on all front. fact is china-russia relations are on the up and up, threat of war is extremely remote. large scale combat with india is also extremely unlikely. and PRC-ROC tries are currently amicable with a very remote chance of serious tensions at the moment. therefore it leaves two problem areas, namely the north east with possible NK situation and japan, and the south with the various island disputes. this is hardly unmanageable.


Unfortunately for you, China has massive land mass to defend and 7 potential enemies that China has to allocate its forces to such as Russia/Taiwan/SK/Japan/India/U.S..and Vietnam. Unlike the U.S who does not have to worry about any threats surrounding its border, Chinese forces are spread thin to defend on many fronts/enemies hence you have many military districts

Btw, if you add the Phillipines and the Indonesian to your list of potential enemies, China would have 9 enemies to spread her forces to


----------



## BoQ77

If all opposers cooperate, all up, all down ... then China will suffer much of difficulties

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NiceGuy

Krueger said:


> 15/05/2014
> 
> _VietNamNet Bridge – The Vietnamese Government can sue China in the International Court of the Law of the Sea, while the Vietnam Oil and Gas Group (PetroVietnam) may sue the China National Offshore Oil Corporation (CNOOC) in the civil court of Vietnam. So says Attorney Hoang Ngoc Giao, Director of the Institute for Legal Policy and Development._


Yes, US , pls help us to sue China to international court. Its time for a better relationship between US-VN

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## GR!FF!N

but in this case too,China will probably avoid to become a party in the cases,just like case Philippines lodged.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Pangu

1, Analysis, China, Vietnam
*New Tensions In The South China Sea: Whose Sovereignty Over Paracels? – Analysis*

May 15, 2014 RSIS Leave a comment

By RSIS

China’s positioning of a state-owned oil rig in waters near the disputed Paracel Islands has led to increased tensions between China and Vietnam. While this has been seen as another demonstration of Chinese assertiveness, a closer look may tell a different story.

By Sam Bateman

TENSIONS BETWEEN China and Vietnam over sovereignty issues in the South China Sea flared up again on 2 May 2014 when China positioned an oil rig in waters off the disputed Paracel Islands. Vietnam protested this action and sent vessels to disrupt the rig’s operations. China responded by sending more ships to protect the rig. Inevitably with the numbers of opposing vessels in the area, a violent clash occurred on 7 May injuring some Vietnamese personnel and damage to some vessels.

Vietnam has launched a strong diplomatic and public relations campaign to support its position. It appears to be winning the public relations battle with much global commentary supporting its claim that the rig is illegal and painting the situation as yet another example of China’s assertiveness. However, a closer look at the situation suggests that China may be within its rights with the rig. Undoubtedly, however, it could have handled the situation more diplomatically rather than acting unilaterally in a way that inevitably would lead to increased tension.

*Locating the rig*
The rig is about 120 nautical miles east of the Vietnamese coast, and 180 nautical miles south of China’s Hainan Island. These are the two nearest mainland points from which an exclusive economic zone (EEZ) and continental shelf may unquestionably be measured. Equally importantly, however, the rig is about 14 nautical miles from a small island in the Paracels claimed by China and 80 nautical miles from Woody Island, a large feature with an area of about 500 hectares occupied by China.

Woody Island is indisputably an island under the regime of islands in the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) and thus entitled to an EEZ and continental shelf. Despite global commentary that suggests otherwise, a negotiated maritime boundary in this area would likely place the rig within China’s EEZ even if reduced weight was given to China’s claimed insular features.

Vietnam claims that because the rig is closer to its mainland coast than to China’s and well inside 200 nautical miles of its coast, it lies within its EEZ and on its continental shelf. Superficially this argument may appear attractive but geographical proximity alone is not an unequivocal basis for claiming sovereignty or sovereign rights. There are many examples around the world of countries having sovereignty over features well inside the EEZ of another, or of EEZ boundaries being established significantly closer to one country than to another.

*The sovereignty question*
The question as to who has sovereignty over the Paracels is at the heart of the current situation. If Vietnam had sovereignty over the islands, there would be no dispute. However, despite much global commentary suggesting that Vietnam has a case to support its sovereignty claim, closer analysis of the history of the dispute suggests otherwise.

Vietnam’s current claim is seriously weakened by North Vietnam’s recognition of Chinese sovereignty over the Paracels in 1958 and its lack of protest between 1958 and 1975. A number of governments, including the United States, have explicitly or implicitly recognised Chinese sovereignty over some or all of the islands. China has occupied Woody Island since the end of World War Two. North Vietnamese occupation of that large feature may have significantly affected American operations against North Vietnam during the Vietnam War.

The US has urged the claimant countries to exercise care and restraint. Against the historical background of American acceptance of China’s sovereignty over Woody Island, it would be hypocritical now for Washington to make any stronger statement that might be seen as supportive of Vietnam’s position.

*Where to now?*
Previous incidents around the Paracels mainly related to fisheries management issues and China’s arrest of Vietnamese fishing vessels attempting to fish in or near the islands. Undoubtedly Vietnam can make a strong case that its fishermen have traditionally fished in these waters – in much the same way as China claims traditional rights for its fishermen elsewhere in the South China Sea.

Vietnam may well have been better off to agree to China’s sovereignty over the Paracels in return for China conceding traditional fishing rights in the area to Vietnamese fishermen and agreeing to pursue the joint development of marine resources in the waters between the islands and the coast of Vietnam. Unfortunately, however, the two countries have probably passed the point of no return in being able to reach such a negotiated settlement. Vietnam is playing for high odds by endeavouring to muster global and regional support for its position when in fact, it may end up with nothing.

Hard line positions by all the parties to the sovereignty disputes in the South China Sea are short-sighted and will inevitably lead to increased tensions and regional instability. There will be ‘losers’ in this approach when potentially all could be ‘winners’ if the parties accepted the need for functional cooperation in managing the sea and its resources. The geographical reality is that straight line maritime boundaries will be impossible to achieve in some parts of the sea, and as a consequence, the sole ownership of resources will also not be possible.

The irony of the current situation is that functional cooperation is not just something that would be nice to have but is an actual obligation under Part IX of UNCLOS covering semi-enclosed waters such as the South China Sea. That obligation has been forgotten while countries continue to assert their unilateral sovereignty claims and risk a ‘win-lose’ outcome.

_*Sam Bateman* is a Senior Fellow in the Maritime Security Programme at the S. Rajaratnam School of International Studies (RSIS), Nanyang Technological University. He is a former Australian naval commodore with research interests in regimes for good order at sea._

New Tensions In The South China Sea: Whose Sovereignty Over Paracels? - Analysis | Eurasia Review


----------



## Nike

ViXuyen said:


> Unfortunately for you, China has massive land mass to defend and 7 potential enemies that China has to allocate its forces to such as Russia/Taiwan/SK/Japan/India/U.S..and Vietnam. Unlike the U.S who does not have to worry about any threats surrounding its border, Chinese forces are spread thin to defend on many fronts/enemies hence you have many military districts
> 
> Btw, if you add the Phillipines and the Indonesian to your list of potential enemies, China would have 9 enemies to spread her forces to



Surely they has added us as their potential enemies when they suddenly brought up Natuna surrounding water into their passport cover pictures. And their aggressive moves against Vietnam has proven the points of their aggressiveness. Indonesia will never see Chinese as before.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## TaiShang

US has been assigned to mess with the little guys. Their time to dictate to the likes of China and Russia is over. Vietnam needs to find a stronger master.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## GR!FF!N

The Philippine government released a series of photos Thursday that it said shows China reclaiming a reef in the South China Sea, which Manila claims is part of the Philippines, and called the move “destabilizing.”

China disputed the Philippines’ claim that Mabini Reef, which is uninhabited, is part of its territory and said the area where the reef is situated in the South China Sea is part of Chinese territory, a Foreign Ministry spokesman told Associated Press.

The photos of Mabini Reef, also known as the Johnson South Reef, were gathered by Philippine intelligence sources and released Thursday by the Philippine Department of Foreign Affairs. The series of photos starts with a picture dated March 13, 2012. The first picture shows the reef is untouched. Later photos from February 2014 show a vessel and the reef being developed as white sand appears in the pictures. The last picture, dated March 11, shows a structure on the northeast side of the reef.

The Philippines is unsure what is being built on Mabini Reef, but Philippine Foreign Secretary Albert del Rosario told AP that Beijing might be building an airstrip. The reef may be built into a military base and a refueling and resupply hub, said an unnamed senior government official, who added that the reclamation was detected six months ago.

“These actions are considered destabilizing and in violation of the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea (DOC) and international law. Mabini Reef is part of the Kalayaan Island Group (KIG) which is part of Philippine territory,” Manila said.

Manila’s statement referred to a nonbinding pact between China and 10 Southeast Asian nations that urges signers to hold back on acting in ways that would “complicate or escalate disputes” in the South China Sea, Philippine Foreign Affairs spokesman Charles Jose told AP. He added that China’s moves are part of Beijing’s strategy to take over the whole South China Sea.

Benigno Aquino III, president of the Philippines, called for a stronger agreement with China and an international arbitration process to prevent escalations in the South China Sea, according to AP. His government proposed the arbitration in January when Chinese ships took control of a shoal claimed by the Philippines.




















Philippines Accuses China Of Reclaiming South China Sea Reef [PHOTOS]

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Beast

What a mess Vietnam is in now? Suing China will be even worst and not helping the situation.


----------



## eazzy

Krueger, do you even have a life ? Are you a bot ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ephone

I think you have reversed the history here. It is U.S. who came to China for normalization, not the other way around. 

vn has to kneel before ussr to give up the sea port. 

What did China give away??? What a dumb axx. 



Rechoice said:


> playing field for such hooligans is criminal world, not for normal humankind.
> 
> 
> 
> WE know it, if it would be necessary, china will knee before US like you did in the past 1972, 1979.


----------



## Globenim

A handful of warcriminals and provocative and corrupt rogue regimes calling them self "the international community", condemn China passively defending their oil rig doing the completely legal business in around Chinese islands.

Peaceful defensive Vietnamese navy passively approachs and tries to ram into Chinese ships and attempts to harras a civilian oil rig doing legal business around Chinese island and cry foul when they are sweeped away by Chinese watercannons from maritime police.

Peaceful demonstration murder dozen of innocent Chinese ethnic civilians in Vietnam and destroy various foreign business while the goverment leaves th violent rioters off the leash..


Vietnamese shure love to turn reality on its head..


----------



## bolo

Beidou2020 said:


> @Krueger
> 
> You must be working for the US intelligence agencies. Snowden revealed they have people like you going to forums and doing exactly the things you are doing.


 I wouldn't give him too much credit. This guy pulls bias sources that any 10 year old Chinese can figure out it's bullshit. His posts are geared for the less educated.



Beast said:


> What a mess Vietnam is in now? Suing China will be even worst and not helping the situation.


 Vietnamese nonsense at its worse. I'm starting to think Viets might have a lower IQ than Indians.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Pangu

GR!FF!N said:


> The Philippine government released a series of photos Thursday that it said shows China reclaiming a reef in the South China Sea, which Manila claims is part of the Philippines, and called the move “destabilizing.”
> 
> China disputed the Philippines’ claim that Mabini Reef, which is uninhabited, is part of its territory and said the area where the reef is situated in the South China Sea is part of Chinese territory, a Foreign Ministry spokesman told Associated Press.
> 
> The photos of Mabini Reef, also known as the Johnson South Reef, were gathered by Philippine intelligence sources and released Thursday by the Philippine Department of Foreign Affairs. The series of photos starts with a picture dated March 13, 2012. The first picture shows the reef is untouched. Later photos from February 2014 show a vessel and the reef being developed as white sand appears in the pictures. The last picture, dated March 11, shows a structure on the northeast side of the reef.
> 
> The Philippines is unsure what is being built on Mabini Reef, but Philippine Foreign Secretary Albert del Rosario told AP that Beijing might be building an airstrip. The reef may be built into a military base and a refueling and resupply hub, said an unnamed senior government official, who added that the reclamation was detected six months ago.
> 
> “These actions are considered destabilizing and in violation of the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea (DOC) and international law. Mabini Reef is part of the Kalayaan Island Group (KIG) which is part of Philippine territory,” Manila said.
> 
> Manila’s statement referred to a nonbinding pact between China and 10 Southeast Asian nations that urges signers to hold back on acting in ways that would “complicate or escalate disputes” in the South China Sea, Philippine Foreign Affairs spokesman Charles Jose told AP. He added that China’s moves are part of Beijing’s strategy to take over the whole South China Sea.
> 
> Benigno Aquino III, president of the Philippines, called for a stronger agreement with China and an international arbitration process to prevent escalations in the South China Sea, according to AP. His government proposed the arbitration in January when Chinese ships took control of a shoal claimed by the Philippines.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Philippines Accuses China Of Reclaiming South China Sea Reef [PHOTOS]



Looks awesome, can't wait for it to be completed!


----------



## EastSea

xudeen said:


> 1, Analysis, China, Vietnam
> *New Tensions In The South China Sea: Whose Sovereignty Over Paracels? – Analysis*
> 
> May 15, 2014 RSIS Leave a comment
> 
> By RSIS
> 
> China’s positioning of a state-owned oil rig in waters near the disputed Paracel Islands has led to increased tensions between China and Vietnam. While this has been seen as another demonstration of Chinese assertiveness, a closer look may tell a different story.
> 
> By Sam Bateman
> 
> TENSIONS BETWEEN China and Vietnam over sovereignty issues in the South China Sea flared up again on 2 May 2014 when China positioned an oil rig in waters off the disputed Paracel Islands. Vietnam protested this action and sent vessels to disrupt the rig’s operations. China responded by sending more ships to protect the rig. Inevitably with the numbers of opposing vessels in the area, a violent clash occurred on 7 May injuring some Vietnamese personnel and damage to some vessels.
> 
> Vietnam has launched a strong diplomatic and public relations campaign to support its position. It appears to be winning the public relations battle with much global commentary supporting its claim that the rig is illegal and painting the situation as yet another example of China’s assertiveness. However, a closer look at the situation suggests that China may be within its rights with the rig. Undoubtedly, however, it could have handled the situation more diplomatically rather than acting unilaterally in a way that inevitably would lead to increased tension.
> 
> *Locating the rig*
> The rig is about 120 nautical miles east of the Vietnamese coast, and 180 nautical miles south of China’s Hainan Island. These are the two nearest mainland points from which an exclusive economic zone (EEZ) and continental shelf may unquestionably be measured. Equally importantly, however, the rig is about 14 nautical miles from a small island in the Paracels claimed by China and 80 nautical miles from Woody Island, a large feature with an area of about 500 hectares occupied by China.
> 
> Woody Island is indisputably an island under the regime of islands in the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) and thus entitled to an EEZ and continental shelf. Despite global commentary that suggests otherwise, a negotiated maritime boundary in this area would likely place the rig within China’s EEZ even if reduced weight was given to China’s claimed insular features.
> 
> Vietnam claims that because the rig is closer to its mainland coast than to China’s and well inside 200 nautical miles of its coast, it lies within its EEZ and on its continental shelf. Superficially this argument may appear attractive but geographical proximity alone is not an unequivocal basis for claiming sovereignty or sovereign rights. There are many examples around the world of countries having sovereignty over features well inside the EEZ of another, or of EEZ boundaries being established significantly closer to one country than to another.
> 
> *The sovereignty question*
> The question as to who has sovereignty over the Paracels is at the heart of the current situation. If Vietnam had sovereignty over the islands, there would be no dispute. However, despite much global commentary suggesting that Vietnam has a case to support its sovereignty claim, closer analysis of the history of the dispute suggests otherwise.
> 
> Vietnam’s current claim is seriously weakened by North Vietnam’s recognition of Chinese sovereignty over the Paracels in 1958 and its lack of protest between 1958 and 1975. A number of governments, including the United States, have explicitly or implicitly recognised Chinese sovereignty over some or all of the islands. China has occupied Woody Island since the end of World War Two. North Vietnamese occupation of that large feature may have significantly affected American operations against North Vietnam during the Vietnam War.
> 
> The US has urged the claimant countries to exercise care and restraint. Against the historical background of American acceptance of China’s sovereignty over Woody Island, it would be hypocritical now for Washington to make any stronger statement that might be seen as supportive of Vietnam’s position.
> 
> *Where to now?*
> Previous incidents around the Paracels mainly related to fisheries management issues and China’s arrest of Vietnamese fishing vessels attempting to fish in or near the islands. Undoubtedly Vietnam can make a strong case that its fishermen have traditionally fished in these waters – in much the same way as China claims traditional rights for its fishermen elsewhere in the South China Sea.
> 
> Vietnam may well have been better off to agree to China’s sovereignty over the Paracels in return for China conceding traditional fishing rights in the area to Vietnamese fishermen and agreeing to pursue the joint development of marine resources in the waters between the islands and the coast of Vietnam. Unfortunately, however, the two countries have probably passed the point of no return in being able to reach such a negotiated settlement. Vietnam is playing for high odds by endeavouring to muster global and regional support for its position when in fact, it may end up with nothing.
> 
> Hard line positions by all the parties to the sovereignty disputes in the South China Sea are short-sighted and will inevitably lead to increased tensions and regional instability. There will be ‘losers’ in this approach when potentially all could be ‘winners’ if the parties accepted the need for functional cooperation in managing the sea and its resources. The geographical reality is that straight line maritime boundaries will be impossible to achieve in some parts of the sea, and as a consequence, the sole ownership of resources will also not be possible.
> 
> The irony of the current situation is that functional cooperation is not just something that would be nice to have but is an actual obligation under Part IX of UNCLOS covering semi-enclosed waters such as the South China Sea. That obligation has been forgotten while countries continue to assert their unilateral sovereignty claims and risk a ‘win-lose’ outcome.
> 
> _*Sam Bateman* is a Senior Fellow in the Maritime Security Programme at the S. Rajaratnam School of International Studies (RSIS), Nanyang Technological University. He is a former Australian naval commodore with research interests in regimes for good order at sea._
> 
> New Tensions In The South China Sea: Whose Sovereignty Over Paracels? - Analysis | Eurasia Review



China is aggressive invaders.


----------



## ViXuyen



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cirr

China starts connecting the North、Middle and South Islands in the Qilianyu（Seven Connected Islets），part of Xisha Islands（Paracel Islands）：

三沙领导调研三岛连接线方案 七连屿有望“串成线”-新闻频道-和讯网

















Xisha Qilianyu

China will turn the whole of the SCS into a giant construction site。

*you ain't seen nothing yet*。

Zhaoshudao（Tree Island）of the Seven Connected Islets：

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## applesauce

ViXuyen said:


> Unfortunately for you, China has massive land mass to defend and 7 potential enemies that China has to allocate its forces to such as Russia/Taiwan/SK/Japan/India/U.S..and Vietnam. Unlike the U.S who does not have to worry about any threats surrounding its border, Chinese forces are spread thin to defend on many fronts/enemies hence you have many military districts
> 
> Btw, if you add the Phillipines and the Indonesian to your list of potential enemies, China would have 9 enemies to spread her forces to



clearly you dont understand anything.

look at what china actually faces.

china only needs token forces against anything in the west of china, and russia since the western "stans" are very weak and relations with russia are very good. and i already said, borders with india only requires light(in terms of equipment and numbers) troops and in fact that's what's there right now instead of a large army formation. taiwan requires only the east sea fleet and missiles which china has thousands and thousands of, and even that is overkill since relations with ROC is fairly okay at the moment. the only area needing conventional protection is the northeast, specifically in korea and against japan. thats basically only one area to worry about aside from the SCS. and there is only 7 military districts and frankly its a relic of a past age, they are seeker to reform that set up as we speak.

and among all the threats the ONLY serious one is US/Japan(whether over islands or a korean scenario) combo, the SCS claimants could unify their navy and the South sea fleet could defeat it by itself. 

and spread thin you say? yea thats why china can afford to send FFG and DDG to various nation visits at the same time a the pirate missions and rimpac that coming up, not to mention the naval drill with russia. as for the airforce and land forces. you must be seriously delusional if you think the chinese army or air force is "spread thin" they're all in china, as china is not fighting any wars nor have tons of external bases.


----------



## applesauce

"The reason why China has not attacked Vietnam in the Spratly because China knows that Vietnam holds the military advantage"

using your logic, vietnam has not attack china in the spratlys because it knows china completely outclass it in every possible way.


"Nope, a base in the Spratly that you build out of a reef can easily be taken out by our EXTRA rocket or ballistic missiles; that is assuming that you can even build a base that can support take off and landing and a base that can house even a few jets."

get it through your head. china has more rockets, more ballistic missiles, basically more everything than vietnam. . secondly china is the most prolific builder in the world. fact is they could end your navy in an afternoon along with all the targets you leave on the various islands without even landing anyone on them.



"Unfortunately for you Vietnam also has submarines to counter the sub force of your South Sea Fleet. Most of your subs in the south sea fleet are cold war relic."

you have kilos, we have twice as many kilos. not even gonna talk about songs/yuans/ssn




"We have real islands in the Spratly here, buddy. Our transport vessels have been carrying supplies and troops to the Spratly islands eveyday and up till NOW you don't even know what we have transported to the Spratly. You can try to pound our real islands with whatever you wish but we just pound your "sea base" with our own ballistic missiles and EXTRA rockets and your entire operation in the Spratly will cease immediately. You rely on a sea base to operate while we don't; that is even assuming that you can build a sea base in the Spratly"

lol you are seriously delusional. so apparently, vietnam is now magic and their island bases don't need supplies in times of war anymore and are invincible to attacks hahahaha. and apparently chinese "reef" are now sinkable hahahah. i see, so why dont you guys push china completely out of there then, scared? dont be, clearly you are protected by magic. and pound the sea base you say lol sure in a surprise attack you'll get a hit in, then what, when all those CJ-10s and srbms wipe the map clean and the chinese navy dominates the entire area. 


"I'm not losing sleep over any military conflict over the Spratly or even the Paracel with you guys"

you shouldnt. you don't make decisions or apparently even know much about the huge gap in capabilities, its the vietnamese generals and admirals thats are losing sleep at the prospect of war.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ViXuyen

applesauce said:


> clearly you dont understand anything.
> 
> look at what china actually faces.
> 
> china only needs token forces against anything in the west of china, and russia since the western "stans" are very weak and relations with russia are very good. and i already said, borders with india only requires light(in terms of equipment and numbers) troops and in fact that's what's there right now instead of a large army formation. taiwan requires only the east sea fleet and missiles which china has thousands and thousands of, and even that is overkill since relations with ROC is fairly okay at the moment. the only area needing conventional protection is the northeast, specifically in korea and against japan. thats basically only one area to worry about aside from the SCS. and there is only 7 military districts and frankly its a relic of a past age, they are seeker to reform that set up as we speak.
> 
> and among all the threats the ONLY serious one is US/Japan(whether over islands or a korean scenario) combo, the SCS claimants could unify their navy and the South sea fleet could defeat it by itself.
> 
> and spread thin you say? yea thats why china can afford to send FFG and DDG to various nation visits at the same time a the pirate missions and rimpac that coming up, not to mention the naval drill with russia. as for the airforce and land forces. you must be seriously delusional if you think the chinese army or air force is "spread thin" they're all in china, as china is not fighting any wars nor have tons of external bases.


Your forces are spread thin, my friend. Chinese armed forces is like an NFL running back with 1000-yard season & 300 carries. You're surrounded by hostiled states both land and sea. You always have to allocated a % of your forces either land, air, sea to a particular front/enemies for a potential conflict.


----------



## ViXuyen

applesauce said:


> "The reason why China has not attacked Vietnam in the Spratly because China knows that Vietnam holds the military advantage"
> 
> using your logic, vietnam has not attack china in the spratlys because it knows china completely outclass it in every possible way.
> 
> Failed logic, we're in a defensive posture. We won't commite our assets in a military conflict if we want to but only when we need to
> 
> 
> "Nope, a base in the Spratly that you build out of a reef can easily be taken out by our EXTRA rocket or ballistic missiles; that is assuming that you can even build a base that can support take off and landing and a base that can house even a few jets."
> 
> get it through your head. china has more rockets, more ballistic missiles, basically more everything than vietnam. . secondly china is the most prolific builder in the world. fact is they could end your navy in an afternoon along with all the targets you leave on the various islands without even landing anyone on them.
> 
> Get it through your head, ballistic missiles and rocket that we send to your sea base runway will cripple your entire operation in the Spratly while you try to hit us won't do us any damage since we fly our jets from Vietnam mainland
> 
> 
> 
> "Unfortunately for you Vietnam also has submarines to counter the sub force of your South Sea Fleet. Most of your subs in the south sea fleet are cold war relic."
> 
> you have kilos, we have twice as many kilos. not even gonna talk about songs/yuans/ssn
> 
> Yawn, your south sea fleet's subs are not that advanced my friend, in term of quality and quantity over us
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "We have real islands in the Spratly here, buddy. Our transport vessels have been carrying supplies and troops to the Spratly islands eveyday and up till NOW you don't even know what we have transported to the Spratly. You can try to pound our real islands with whatever you wish but we just pound your "sea base" with our own ballistic missiles and EXTRA rockets and your entire operation in the Spratly will cease immediately. You rely on a sea base to operate while we don't; that is even assuming that you can build a sea base in the Spratly"
> 
> lol you are seriously delusional. so apparently, vietnam is now magic and their island bases don't need supplies in times of war anymore and are invincible to attacks hahahaha. and apparently chinese "reef" are now sinkable hahahah. i see, so why dont you guys push china completely out of there then, scared? dont be, clearly you are protected by magic. and pound the sea base you say lol sure in a surprise attack you'll get a hit in, then what, when all those CJ-10s and srbms wipe the map clean and the chinese navy dominates the entire area.
> 
> The magic trick here is Vietnam pound any sea base run way with ballistic missiles and rockets and your operation will cease in the SCS
> 
> 
> "I'm not losing sleep over any military conflict over the Spratly or even the Paracel with you guys"
> 
> you shouldnt. you don't make decisions or apparently even know much about the huge gap in capabilities, its the vietnamese generals and admirals thats are losing sleep at the prospect of war.
> 
> Our military planners are not even losing sleep either as it can be shown by the FACT that only 24 Flankers are based near Cam Ranh for the Spratly conflict while 12 in current service+12 on order is nowhere near Cam Ranh


Above are my replies


----------



## applesauce

ViXuyen said:


> Your forces are spread thin, my friend. Chinese armed forces is like an NFL running back with 1000-yard season & 300 carries. You're surrounded by hostiled states both land and sea. You always have to allocated a % of your forces either land, air, sea to a particular front/enemies for a potential conflict.



as i already mentioned you are wrong and have explained why. you on the other hand is covering your ears/eyes and crying "noooo". while offering zero evidence to back you up


----------



## ViXuyen

applesauce said:


> as i already mentioned you are wrong and have explained why. you on the other hand is covering your ears/eyes and crying "noooo". while offering zero evidence to back you up


 Evidence point to the fact that u have 7 potential enemies. If you consider the Indian and Russian fronts are "light" fronts, u would still need to allocate a % of your forces to these two fronts. While the Taiwan/US front, South Korea/US front, or Japan/US front u will have to allocate a % of your forces to these fronts for sure. Each front might weight heavier than the other but the fact remains that you can't neglect any of these fronts.


----------



## applesauce

"Failed logic, we're in a defensive posture. We won't commite our assets in a military conflict if we want to but only when we need to"

ill just quote you then, but from the chinese perspective.


"Get it through your head, ballistic missiles and rocket that we send to your sea base runway will cripple your entire operation in the Spratly while you try to hit us won't do us any damage since we fly our jets from Vietnam mainland"


lol so your land bases are invincible like your island bases? rightttt.... your entire airforce of a whole 32 flankers hahaha im sure the PLA with its 200+ flankers is sooo very scared




"Yawn, your south sea fleet's subs are not that advanced my friend, in term of quality and quantity over us"


you do realize that subs can be moved. as in the north sea or east sea fleet can send subs down there too?



"The magic trick here is Vietnam pound any sea base run way with ballistic missiles and rockets and your operation will cease in the SCS"

uhh, no. because SCS operations do not depend solely on any sea base, conversely if they did, then china will simply take out all your bases too. then what?



"Our military planners are not even losing sleep either as it can be shown by the FACT that only 24 Flankers are based near Cam Ranh for the Spratly conflict while 12 in current service+12 on order is nowhere near Cam Ranh"

wow so you mean to tell me that placing 66% of ones entire force in an area means that they are not taking the threat to that area seriously? hahahaha



ViXuyen said:


> Evidence point to the fact that u have 7 potential enemies. If you consider the Indian and Russian fronts are "light" fronts, u would still need to allocate a % of your forces to these two fronts. While the Taiwan/US front, South Korea/US front, or Japan/US front u will have to allocate a % of your forces to these fronts for sure. Each front might weight heavier than the other but the fact remains that you can't neglect any of these fronts.



who ever said china is neglecting those front? china simply has more than enough forces for all fronts, especially land forces

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

applesauce : we could produce ourselves missiles, enough for defence purpose only. So unless you plan to invade us, no need to worry about any threat from Vietnam.


----------



## B+ Dracula

Rahul9090 said:


> we should form a nato like military alliance .to fight against the Chinese,lets be real... china is very strong lets not be ignorant about it ,but they cant fight all of us !....


hehehehehe ...........You ignored me



Dem!god said:


> look at chinese reaction...... its hilarious....just a decade or two back they were goodie-goodie kid of east asia and now acting all tough and bully......


AS you people were once Goodie Goodie , Now after having your Pocket and Mouth Full of Money , You are ignoring Pakistani Cricket team to play or sending your team , You people also banned flying your Plane in our AIR TERRITORY but once india realized that its a trade of deficit in long term you pushed back from that IDEA (you Forgot dear)

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Dem!god

Anoushirvan said:


> hehehehehe ...........You ignored me
> 
> 
> AS you people were once Goodie Goodie , Now after having your Pocket and Mouth Full of Money , You are ignoring Pakistani Cricket team to play or sending your team , You people also banned flying your Plane in our AIR TERRITORY but once india realized that its a trade of deficit in long term you pushed back from that IDEA (you Forgot dear)


naahhh///// we ain't ignoring pakistani cricket team..... it was terrorism stuff and mumbai atttack which did that.....
u must be knowing many ex pakistani cricketer are working in india as coaches of IPL team and and as commentator.....
any way there going to indo-pak series soon in india ...I guess in september...so wait....
ya I know that too......about air territory stuff.....but that too because of terrorism.....not because we just want to bully any nation...


----------



## B+ Dracula

Dem!god said:


> naahhh///// we ain't ignoring pakistani cricket team..... it was terrorism stuff and mumbai atttack which did that.....
> u must be knowing many ex pakistani cricketer are working in india as coaches of IPL team and and as commentator.....
> any way there going to indo-pak series soon in india ...I guess in september...so wait....
> ya I know that too......about air territory stuff.....but that too because of terrorism.....not because we just want to bully any nation...


like our cricketer not playing IPL....ok leave it
Iam not Investigating your comments BUT GENERALLY...
As a Big Country your Government behave arrogantly with Pakistan, Whatever your Gov have first thought in your mind against pakistan you Just do it ..Immediately


----------



## Dem!god

Anoushirvan said:


> like our cricketer not playing IPL....ok leave it
> Iam not Investigating your comments BUT GENERALLY...
> As a Big Country your Government behave arrogantly with Pakistan, Whatever your Gov have first thought in your mind against pakistan you Just do it ..Immediately


u see ...terrorism is something which is bleeding my nation from long time now......
from kashmir issue to maoist...issue....and india has always made clear abt our stand on it and pakistan has genrally backed and helped those terrorist group.....
how do u expect to deal with a country who claims to bleed india with 1000 cuts.....it ain't going to be friendly...u know that too...
its not arrogant but just response and that too humble one.. ..... u see what america did when osama attacked the twin towers....but we did ..just stopped playing cricket..... 
India can't afford to have war in current situation..... and cricket was called off only after mumbai attack in 2008....and recently I read BCCI has agreed to have a series against pakistan in september.....

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## B+ Dracula

ALL THAT FORUM MEMBERS ARE CREATING WORLD WAR SCENARIO's HAHAHAHAH

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## yusheng

see where is csb8001?


----------



## yusheng

cannon is naked


----------



## yusheng

officially denied, just for reference:





















maybe only routine exercise


----------



## tomluter

I saw a fighter-bomber on a pic? FBC-1

Its anti-ship model? or its electronic warfare model, to jam Vietnam fleet's communication?


----------



## yusheng

Vietnam now tasted, certainly the riot services his right very well.


After Vietnam war, Vietnam copies almost every policy from China both on social and economic development; however, like on military, he only learned small tricks, without full understanding essences of Chinese culture, Vietnam only resembles in form, not alike in spirit of China. That is why so many Chinese members call them M......


Even the god may smile if i say there is an Independent thinking Vietnam.


Any one who really know Vietnam can see that this riot is caused by his internal problems: there is 0.1 billion people living in this country, but his GDP is smaller than Chinese GuangXi province which is lessdeveloped province in China, the growing social problems in economy leads the legality and stability ofVietnam Communist and its regime in trouble.


Before riot, his stock market dropped 7 percent shows capital is sensitive and making prognosis, and nodoubt the riot will enhance the fleeting of investment, and his economy will be worsen in the near future.


It is typical self destruction.


Trying to detour his internal problems by producing outside threat from China is quenching a thirst withsalty water. then will he come to China for money when next financial crisis comes? he will because he has no fame as we just saw he ceased from holding Asia Game.



Why this time Vietnam reacts so violently on 981?

Because 981 really hits his tender spot,oil form south china sea is his biggest quick income, however, his ability is limited to shallow sea oil, yet the main oil reserve is in the deep south china sea which we can see from space diagram of sea bed which is out of Vietnam's reach.


Deep water oil technique is mastered by only a few countries, China is one of these. it is not easy for Vietnam to learn such technique or to hire a oil platform which is very expensive and not profitable. on the other hand, facing the objection from china, international oil group is unwilling to challenge China. one nature of capital is to avoid risk, they did and will do.


Vietnam very fear that China master deep oil extracting skill, that will end the oil striving on SCS. now 981 appeared and Vietnam can do nothing except harassing. that is why Vietnam so excited and attacked us on ASEAN, and sent out half of his sea police ships to stop 981. the small tricks are effective after pampering media and conniving march, however, Vietnam should know Chinese old saying "Cleverness may overreach itself", since being offended openly, will we have reason now to stop deep water oil drilling?


TodayVietnam is really ashamed into anger miff, but he can not do himself as 981 can do, then he will adventure , we have to be careful and prepared.



tomluter said:


> I saw a fighter-bomber on a pic? FBC-1
> 
> Its anti-ship model? or its electronic warfare model, to jam Vietnam fleet's communication?


all FBC can antiship, it is good chance to exercise, this one seems a reconnaissance plane.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

yusheng said:


> Vietnam now tasted, certainly the riot services his right very well.
> 
> 
> After Vietnam war, Vietnam copies almost every policy from China both on social and economic development; however, like on military, he only learned small tricks, without full understanding essences of Chinese culture, Vietnam only resembles in form, not alike in spirit of China. That is why so many Chinese members call them M......
> 
> 
> Even the god may smile if i say there is an Independent thinking Vietnam.
> 
> 
> Any one who really know Vietnam can see that this riot is caused by his internal problems: there is 0.1 billion people living in this country, but his GDP is smaller than Chinese GuangXi province which is lessdeveloped province in China, the growing social problems in economy leads the legality and stability ofVietnam Communist and its regime in trouble.
> 
> 
> Before riot, his stock market dropped 7 percent shows capital is sensitive and making prognosis, and nodoubt the riot will enhance the fleeting of investment, and his economy will be worsen in the near future.
> 
> 
> It is typical self destruction.
> 
> 
> Trying to detour his internal problems by producing outside threat from China is quenching a thirst withsalty water. then will he come to China for money when next financial crisis comes? he will because he has no fame as we just saw he ceased from holding Asia Game.
> 
> 
> 
> Why this time Vietnam reacts so violently on 981?
> 
> Because 981 really hits his tender spot,oil form south china sea is his biggest quick income, however, his ability is limited to shallow sea oil, yet the main oil reserve is in the deep south china sea which we can see from space diagram of sea bed which is out of Vietnam's reach.
> 
> 
> Deep water oil technique is mastered by only a few countries, China is one of these. it is not easy for Vietnam to learn such technique or to hire a oil platform which is very expensive and not profitable. on the other hand, facing the objection from china, international oil group is unwilling to challenge China. one nature of capital is to avoid risk, they did and will do.
> 
> 
> Vietnam very fear that China master deep oil extracting skill, that will end the oil striving on SCS. now 981 appeared and Vietnam can do nothing except harassing. that is why Vietnam so excited and attacked us on ASEAN, and sent out half of his sea police ships to stop 981. the small tricks are effective after pampering media and conniving march, however, Vietnam should know Chinese old saying "Cleverness may overreach itself", since being offended openly, will we have reason now to stop deep water oil drilling?
> 
> 
> TodayVietnam is really ashamed into anger miff, but he can not do himself as 981 can do, then he will adventure , we have to be careful and prepared.
> 
> 
> all FBC can antiship, it is good chance to exercise, this one seems a reconnaissance plane.



Chinese is arrogant, big mouth and stupid.

In the past both Vietnam and China copied Stalin model from So Viet Union. The new policy for economy (NEP) is Lenin the first who applied for Russia after Revolution.

"Open policy", Japan is the first in Asia do it from time if Min Ji , not China. China is simply copy and past what Japan, Korean and Taiwan did.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ViXuyen

applesauce said:


> "Failed logic, we're in a defensive posture. We won't commite our assets in a military conflict if we want to but only when we need to"
> 
> ill just quote you then, but from the chinese perspective.
> 
> You have initiated the offense in every war. Since you have not dared to attack us in the Spratly at our weakest point up till 2004, you clearly know you don't have the capabilities to do so
> 
> 
> "Get it through your head, ballistic missiles and rocket that we send to your sea base runway will cripple your entire operation in the Spratly while you try to hit us won't do us any damage since we fly our jets from Vietnam mainland"
> 
> 
> lol so your land bases are invincible like your island bases? rightttt.... your entire airforce of a whole 32 flankers hahaha im sure the PLA with its 200+ flankers is sooo very scared
> 
> --Do you have any videos of your Flankers overfly the reefs that you control in the deep South side of the Spratly? No, huh?
> 
> -Obviously your Flankers are not capable of refueling or there are only a small # of those Flankers that are capable of refueling and out of those limited # of Flankers, only a few is tasked to go to Spratly. Like I said in the other point, you have a lot of jets, but you can't commit all on them in one front. Your Guanzhou military district which is tasked to fight Vietnam and this district only has about 100 Flankers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Yawn, your south sea fleet's subs are not that advanced my friend, in term of quality and quantity over us"
> 
> 
> you do realize that subs can be moved. as in the north sea or east sea fleet can send subs down there too?
> 
> Your subs have to stay in the East Sea fleet for possible conflict with Taiwan/Japan/U.S and this East Sea Fleet by its number are not even capable enough to defeat the Japanese or U.S
> 
> 
> 
> "The magic trick here is Vietnam pound any sea base run way with ballistic missiles and rockets and your operation will cease in the SCS"
> 
> uhh, no. because SCS operations do not depend solely on any sea base, conversely if they did, then china will simply take out all your bases too. then what?
> 
> You need serious refuel to go to Spratly that's why you hopelessly are trying to build a base in the middle of the ocean to launch your jets from. If there is a shooting war, you can take out our "bases" ie islands but when we destroy your runnway/bases; you will cease your operation in the Spratly immediately due to your jets inablility to take off or landing
> 
> 
> 
> "Our military planners are not even losing sleep either as it can be shown by the FACT that only 24 Flankers are based near Cam Ranh for the Spratly conflict while 12 in current service+12 on order is nowhere near Cam Ranh"
> 
> wow so you mean to tell me that placing 66% of ones entire force in an area means that they are not taking the threat to that area seriously? hahahaha
> 
> That argument even works against you, LOL. Considering you have "200+ Flankers", we should base all of our 36 Flankers in Cam Ranh since we know that the possiblity of military conflict in the Spratly is very high. However, our military planners only base 12 su30 in Cam Ranh and 12 su27 in Dong Nai, which is 300 km away from Cam Ranh Bay. All in all, there are a total of 24 Flankers at Cam Ranh or near Cam Ranh for a rapid response to a conflict in Spratly. Obviously, our military planners are not losing sleep about the possibility of your jets making it to the Spratly. 12 su30 can launch a total of 48 Kh-59mk missiles while 40 su-22 can launch a total of 40 Kh-31 missiles; sound more than enough to give your surface combatants a run for their lives. It's not a surprise that the current 12 Flankers + 12 on order will be based no where near Cam Ranh
> 
> 
> 
> who ever said china is neglecting those front? china simply has more than enough forces for all fronts, especially land forces
> -No, you don't. Your strongest enemies are the U.S & Japan. Even if you committe 100% of your entire force to fight them air and sea, you might even have problems defeating them. You will always need to keep most of your forces in reserve to face these two strongest enemies. You won't have enough to spare to go on an offense against other fronts like India, Russia, or Vietnam even if you consider these are light fronts.


Above


----------



## BoQ77

China is still not sure the victory over Taiwan by sudden attack?


----------



## tbquestion

BoQ77 said:


> China is still not sure the victory over Taiwan by sudden attack?


China is in no hurry to attack Taiwan, besides Taiwan has the protection of the US. Who does the Vietnamese have in their corner?

What is Vietnam going do if China refuse to remove her rig in August and instead add more rigs?

Do Vietnam have enough coast guard ships to harass five or maybe ten Chinese rigs?

Here 's one reason why China will be eating Vietnam's lunch:

try googling "israel sold advance missile technology to china" ( I don't have the privilege to post links yet)

Secret U.S. missile and electro-optics technology was transferred to China recently by Israel, prompting anger from the U.S. and causing a senior Israeli defense official to resign.

The head of defense exports for the Israeli Defense Ministry resigned after a U.S. investigation concluded that technology, including a miniature refrigeration system manufactured by Ricor and used for missiles and in electro-optic equipment, was sent to China, according to the Israeli newspaper Maariv.

Another Israeli news site, Aretz Sheva, reports the U.S. is concerned the technology could ultimately find its way to Iran, which last year sought to buy military equipment from China for its nuclear program.

Ricor, on its company website, identifies a number of defense programs using its miniature cryo-coolers, including UAVs, airborne enhanced vision systems, missile warning systems, hand-held thermal imagers and thermal weapons sights.

The Maariv report identified the Israeli defense official as Meir Shalit, and said he apologized to U.S. officials on a recent visit.

Israel has a long record of getting U.S. military technology to China.

In the early 1990s then-CIA Director James Woolsey told a Senate Government Affairs Committee that Israel had been selling U.S. secrets to China for about a decade.

Reactions: Positive Rating Positive Rating:
1


----------



## CN.Black

BoQ77 said:


> China is still not sure the victory over Taiwan by sudden attack?





BoQ77 said:


> China is still not sure the victory over Taiwan by sudden attack?


Because we can solve this problem in a peaceful way.In addition,if some Southeast Asian country keeps trying our patience, we will start a war to let it know who is the leader of Asia.


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

tbquestion said:


> China is in no hurry to attack Taiwan, besides Taiwan has the protection of the US. Who does the Vietnamese have in their corner?
> 
> What is Vietnam going do if China refuse to remove her rig in August and instead add more rigs?
> 
> Do Vietnam have enough coast guard ships to harass five or maybe ten Chinese rigs?
> 
> Here 's one reason why China will be eating Vietnam's lunch:
> 
> try googling "israel sold advance missile technology to china" ( I don't have the privilege to post links yet)
> 
> Secret U.S. missile and electro-optics technology was transferred to China recently by Israel, prompting anger from the U.S. and causing a senior Israeli defense official to resign.
> 
> The head of defense exports for the Israeli Defense Ministry resigned after a U.S. investigation concluded that technology, including a miniature refrigeration system manufactured by Ricor and used for missiles and in electro-optic equipment, was sent to China, according to the Israeli newspaper Maariv.
> 
> Another Israeli news site, Aretz Sheva, reports the U.S. is concerned the technology could ultimately find its way to Iran, which last year sought to buy military equipment from China for its nuclear program.
> 
> Ricor, on its company website, identifies a number of defense programs using its miniature cryo-coolers, including UAVs, airborne enhanced vision systems, missile warning systems, hand-held thermal imagers and thermal weapons sights.
> 
> The Maariv report identified the Israeli defense official as Meir Shalit, and said he apologized to U.S. officials on a recent visit.
> 
> Israel has a long record of getting U.S. military technology to China.
> 
> In the early 1990s then-CIA Director James Woolsey told a Senate Government Affairs Committee that Israel had been selling U.S. secrets to China for about a decade.



The next step, China will pull its huge oil rigs to the south, near the Natuna Islands. What do you think?


----------



## BoQ77

CN.Black said:


> Because we can solve this problem in a peaceful way.



Why China still protest the armament purchase of Taiwan


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

tbquestion said:


> China is in no hurry to attack Taiwan, besides Taiwan has the protection of the US. Who does the Vietnamese have in their corner?
> 
> What is Vietnam going do if China refuse to remove her rig in August and instead add more rigs?
> 
> Do Vietnam have enough coast guard ships to harass five or maybe ten Chinese rigs?
> 
> Here 's one reason why China will be eating Vietnam's lunch:
> 
> try googling "israel sold advance missile technology to china" ( I don't have the privilege to post links yet)
> 
> Secret U.S. missile and electro-optics technology was transferred to China recently by Israel, prompting anger from the U.S. and causing a senior Israeli defense official to resign.
> 
> The head of defense exports for the Israeli Defense Ministry resigned after a U.S. investigation concluded that technology, including a miniature refrigeration system manufactured by Ricor and used for missiles and in electro-optic equipment, was sent to China, according to the Israeli newspaper Maariv.
> 
> Another Israeli news site, Aretz Sheva, reports the U.S. is concerned the technology could ultimately find its way to Iran, which last year sought to buy military equipment from China for its nuclear program.
> 
> Ricor, on its company website, identifies a number of defense programs using its miniature cryo-coolers, including UAVs, airborne enhanced vision systems, missile warning systems, hand-held thermal imagers and thermal weapons sights.
> 
> The Maariv report identified the Israeli defense official as Meir Shalit, and said he apologized to U.S. officials on a recent visit.
> 
> Israel has a long record of getting U.S. military technology to China.
> 
> *In the early 1990s then-CIA Director James Woolsey told a Senate Government Affairs Committee that Israel had been selling U.S. secrets to China for about a decade.*



No more BS, do you think the NSA is running by a buch of retards or something?


----------



## Viet

yusheng said:


> Vietnam now tasted, certainly the riot services his right very well.
> 
> 
> After Vietnam war, Vietnam copies almost every policy from China both on social and economic development; however, like on military, he only learned small tricks, without full understanding essences of Chinese culture, Vietnam only resembles in form, not alike in spirit of China. That is why so many Chinese members call them M......
> 
> 
> Even the god may smile if i say there is an Independent thinking Vietnam.
> 
> 
> Any one who really know Vietnam can see that this riot is caused by his internal problems: there is 0.1 billion people living in this country, but his GDP is smaller than Chinese GuangXi province which is lessdeveloped province in China, the growing social problems in economy leads the legality and stability ofVietnam Communist and its regime in trouble.
> 
> 
> Before riot, his stock market dropped 7 percent shows capital is sensitive and making prognosis, and nodoubt the riot will enhance the fleeting of investment, and his economy will be worsen in the near future.
> 
> 
> It is typical self destruction.
> 
> 
> Trying to detour his internal problems by producing outside threat from China is quenching a thirst withsalty water. then will he come to China for money when next financial crisis comes? he will because he has no fame as we just saw he ceased from holding Asia Game.
> 
> 
> 
> Why this time Vietnam reacts so violently on 981?
> 
> Because 981 really hits his tender spot,oil form south china sea is his biggest quick income, however, his ability is limited to shallow sea oil, yet the main oil reserve is in the deep south china sea which we can see from space diagram of sea bed which is out of Vietnam's reach.
> 
> 
> Deep water oil technique is mastered by only a few countries, China is one of these. it is not easy for Vietnam to learn such technique or to hire a oil platform which is very expensive and not profitable. on the other hand, facing the objection from china, international oil group is unwilling to challenge China. one nature of capital is to avoid risk, they did and will do.
> 
> 
> Vietnam very fear that China master deep oil extracting skill, that will end the oil striving on SCS. now 981 appeared and Vietnam can do nothing except harassing. that is why Vietnam so excited and attacked us on ASEAN, and sent out half of his sea police ships to stop 981. the small tricks are effective after pampering media and conniving march, however, Vietnam should know Chinese old saying "Cleverness may overreach itself", since being offended openly, will we have reason now to stop deep water oil drilling?
> 
> 
> TodayVietnam is really ashamed into anger miff, but he can not do himself as 981 can do, then he will adventure , we have to be careful and prepared.
> 
> 
> all FBC can antiship, it is good chance to exercise, this one seems a reconnaissance plane.


you are just a clown.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Nike

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> No more BS, do you think the NSA is running by a buch of retards or something?



Not all of people is perfect by births, sometimes you can find some with defect

You can find Corrupt people everywhere, ready to taking some bribes and so gratification

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

madokafc said:


> Not all of people is perfect by births, sometimes you can find some with defect
> 
> You can find Corrupt people everywhere, ready to taking some bribes and so gratification



You think that the US technology is so easy to steal? China has developed many different technologies, do you think that we can steal them one by one?

China has been sanctioned by the US when it comes anything related to the military tech.

BTW, the US has tasted their own medicine, Russia has just sanctioned them on the rocket engine.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

Does Taiwan have the treaty with USA? Vietnam has UN backed and is a member of UNSC, UNCLOS follower. The case would be monitored by whole world, China would be condemned by all

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

CN.Black said:


> Because we can solve this problem in a peaceful way.In addition,if some Southeast Asian country keeps trying our patience, we will start a war to let it know who is the leader of Asia.



bad, stupid boy can not be leader of Asia.


----------



## BoQ77

EastSea said:


> bad, stupid boy can not be leader of Asia.



They are Asia eater

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Nike

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> You think that the US technology is so easy to steal? China has developed many different technologies, do you think that we can steal them one by one?
> 
> China has been sanctioned by the US when it comes anything related to the military tech.
> 
> *BTW, the US has tasted their own medicine, Russia has just sanctioned them on the rocket engine.*



do you think US doesn't have rocket engines technologies? 

they can made it, and it just incidentally Russian made is more cheaper than theirs

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

madokafc said:


> do you think US doesn't have rocket engines technologies?
> 
> they can made it, and it just incidentally Russian made is more cheaper than theirs



Sure, they can have their own, but the problem is the financial difficulty.


----------



## tbquestion

Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> The next step, China will pull its huge oil rigs to the south, near the Natuna Islands. What do you think?


Logistically, it would be headache for China to put a rig near the Natuna island as it take the Chinese CG at least a week to get there each way from the Hainan. It would it more sense, for China to take the Spratly island from Vietnam and then based her CG there. Besides, China wouldnt want to upset Indonesia (or Malaysia), one of the most influential muslim country in the world (unlike the Uighur). Just imagine, a billion muslim extremists being pissed off with China!

The Epoch Times just report that China is massing troops and armors at the Vietnam-Chinese border. Lets hope it's only sabre-rattling.

Have you notice that Russia has been dead quiet since this SCS rig thing started. I guess it says a lot about who your friends are.


----------



## ViXuyen

tbquestion said:


> Logistically, it would be headache for China to put a rig near the Natuna island as it take the Chinese CG at least a week to get there each way from the Hainan. It would it more sense, for China to take the Spratly island from Vietnam and then based her CG there. .


They already mobilized over 100 ships just to put the rig in the vincinity of the Paracel. If they try to put a rig in the Spratly using their Coast Guard, logistic distant will favor us as it takes them huge effort to resupply their ships. Distant from Hainan to the deep south side of our controlled Spratly island is 1500 km while from Cam Ranh to Spratly is just 600 km. If they try to invade the Spratly by force, good luck. Our airforce alone can launch a combine 136 anti-ship missiles at them not to mention our Navy can launch a combine 92 anti-ship missiles as well. I dare them to even try to invade our Spratly.

As for Indonesia, I think you guys will end up like the Flip. A couple of years ago, the gullible Flip were made to think by the Chinese that the SCS dispute is just between Vietnam and China so the Flips were unsupportive and us and sided with the Chinese instead. A few years later, the Chinese reward the Flip for their support by grabbing a shoal from the Flip

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## rott

Jarha said:


> India has always taken side with peace.
> 
> It is seen in this incident that peaceful Vietnam has forcefully bullied by China.
> 
> @Viet I have a suggestion for you, you should buy our Aircraft carrier INS Virat on deffered payment.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Though a bit old for modern standard yet it can send shivers in the spines of Chinese naval captains because it has capacity of 30 aircraft including Herriers and Helicopters.
> 
> 
> We can fit this ship for extended period of 10 years more.
> 
> As for the missiles under 300Km ... the best missile we has is Brahmos -land sea version available.


Send Shivers to Chinese Naval Captains? Man, you've come a long way from the stone age. You've probably never heard of DF-21D? Or perhaps you pretend not to know it just so you could sell the AC to Vietnam? 
AC carriers are sitting ducks when it comes head to head with the DF-21D. Nice try though. But I have to say, good marketing skills you got there.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

rott said:


> Send Shivers to Chinese Naval Captains? Man, you've come a long way from the stone age. You've probably never heard of DF-21D? Or perhaps you pretend not to know it just so you could sell the AC to Vietnam?
> AC carriers are sitting ducks when it comes head to head with the DF-21D. Nice try though. But I have to say, good marketing skills you got there.



We have many ways to sink that rusty piece of scrap.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> We have many ways to sink that rusty piece of scrap.


----------



## ViXuyen

Come on, guys. The distant between Vietnam mainland to the Spratly is just 600 km, why would we need an aircraft carrier? Not only that we can't afford it, even if we can afford it, it would make no sense at all.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## rott

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> We have many ways to sink that rusty piece of scrap.


Oh man, smart people we have here in PDF LOL


----------



## Soryu

Chinese fishing ships, tug boat (steel hull - large displacement 400-500 tons) which under leading by Chinese coast guard encircle and ram on Vietnamese ships.
I remember Chinese member said PRC don't need to used fishing-ships, but here we are:


----------



## Soryu

Result of attack, collision on Vietnamese side:


----------



## cirr

Sausage Factory

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

cirr said:


> Sausage Factory



posting photo is your job ?


----------



## Soryu

Rechoice said:


> posting photo is your job ?


swanky boys, very common in Chinese society, no need to care about him ...


----------



## xunzi

*Lời bài hát: Việt Nam - Trung Hoa (越南—中国) (Đỗ Nhuận) - 1966*

Đăng bởi: vituan774

Việt Nam - Trung Hoa núi liền núi, sông liền sông
Chung một biển Đông mối tình hữu nghị sớm như rạng đông
Bên sông tắm cùng một dòng, 
Tôi nhìn sang đấy anh nhìn sang đây
Sớm sớm chung nghe tiếng gà gáy cùng
A...há...
Chung một ý, chung một lòng đường ta đi hồng màu cờ thắng lợi
A...há...
Nhân dân ta ca muôn năm
Hồ Chí Minh - Mao Trạch Đông!
-----

Yuènán zhōngguó shānliánshān shuǐliánshuǐ
Gònglín dōnghǎi wǒmen yǒuyì xiàng zhāoyáng
Gòngyòng yī jiāngshuǐ zǎo xiāng jiàn wǎn xiāng wàng
Qīngchén gòng tīng xióng jī gāo chàng
A--gòng lǐ xiǎng xīn xiānglián
Shènglì de lùshàng hóngqí piāoyáng
A--wǒmen gāo hū wànsuì
Húzhìmíng Máozédōng
--
Yuènán zhōngguó shān lián shānjiāng lián jiāng
Gòng lín dōnghǎi wǒmen yǒuyì xiàng zhāoyáng
Gòngyòng yī jiāngshuǐ zǎo xiāng jiàn wǎn xiāng wàng
Qīngchén gòng tīng xióng jī gāo chàng
A--gòng lǐxiǎng xīn xiānglián
Shènglì de lùshàng hóngqí piāoyáng
A--wǒmen gāo hū wànsuì
Húzhìmíng Máozédōng


----------



## rott

*China owns sovereignty over the South China Sea rig: Australian expert*

An Australian expert told Xinhua Sunday that China owns sovereignty over the location of its drilling operations that stoked Vietnam's opposition and anti-China violence.

The rig that China is operating is 80 nautical miles from China's Yongxing Island, which is indisputably an island under the regime of islands in the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) and thus entitled to an Economic Exclusive Zone (EEZ) and continental shelf, said Sam Bateman, a senior fellow S. Rajaratnam School of International Studies (RSIS) of the Singapore-based Nanyang Technological University.

Bateman added that "despite global commentary that suggests otherwise, a negotiated maritime boundary in this area would likely place the rig within China's EEZ even if reduced weight was given to China's claimed insular features."

Vietnam claims that because the rig is closer to its mainland coast than to China's and well inside 200 nautical miles of its coast, it lies within its EEZ and on its continental shelf, Bateman said.

However, he said this argument may appear attractive but geographical proximity alone is not an unequivocal basis for claiming sovereignty or sovereign rights.

"There are many examples around the world of countries having sovereignty over features well inside the EEZ of another, or of EEZ boundaries being established significantly closer to one country than to another," Bateman said.

Bateman is also a former Australian naval commodore with research interests in regimes for good order at sea. He said Vietnam's current claim over Xisha Islands is seriously weakened by North Vietnam's recognition of Chinese sovereignty over the islands in 1958 and its lack of protest between 1958 and 1975.

A number of governments, including the United States, have explicitly or implicitly recognized Chinese sovereignty over some or all of the islands, Bateman argued.

The US has urged the claimant countries to exercise care and restraint. Against the historical background of American acceptance of China's sovereignty over Yongxing Island, it would be hypocritical now for Washington to make any stronger statement that might be seen as supportive of Vietnam's position, Bateman said.

China owns sovereignty over the South China Sea rig: Australian expert - Global Times

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Soryu

xunzi said:


> *Lời bài hát: Việt Nam - Trung Hoa (越南—中国) (Đỗ Nhuận) - 1966*
> 
> Đăng bởi: vituan774
> 
> Việt Nam - Trung Hoa núi liền núi, sông liền sông
> 
> Hồ Chí Minh - Mao Trạch Đông!
> -----
> 
> Yuènán zhōngguó shānliánshān shuǐliánshuǐ
> 
> Húzhìmíng Máozédōng


Viet Nam - Chinese are still here, But uncle Ho and chairman Mao were gone, and our relationship went to dark time before the storm. 
If Chinese still want friendship like daybreak, they should retreat that rig and their force, so dark clouds will gone, sun light can come back as well as our relationship.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> We have many ways to sink that rusty piece of scrap.


You're talking about Varyag AC?


----------



## B+ Dracula

CN.Black said:


> Because we can solve this problem in a peaceful way.In addition,if some Southeast Asian country keeps trying our patience, we will start a war to let it know who is the leader of Asia.


Avoid Such Answers....!! Plz


----------



## Soryu

Anoushirvan said:


> Avoid Such Answers....!! Plz


No, no, no ... you should let them have their funny in here, real life was very hard ... just has sympathy ...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## rott



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

rott said:


>



hooligan china has his big mouth. China stop violate Vietnam EZZ !

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TaiShang

The U.S. Shadow

_South China Sea disputes are in danger of escalating as some Southeast Asian countries exploit perceived U.S. backing_

By Yu Lintao






_BEACH ASSAULT: Filipino and U.S. marines on a reconnaissance boat ride during a beach assault exercise facing the South China Sea in San Antonio Town, Zambales Province, near the main Philippine Luzon Island on May 9 (CFP)_

*Even though China exercised restraint in the face of recent provocations by the Philippines and Viet Nam in the South China Sea, Beijing did not gain the goodwill of the two Southeast Asian countries in response.* Disregarding China's opposition, the Philippines charged nine of the 11 Chinese fishermen seized by its police while fishing in waters off Half Moon Shoal, which is under China's jurisdiction. And Viet Nam has continued to stir up nationalist sentiment against China, aiming to pressure Beijing into discontinuing a Chinese oil company's drilling operations in waters off China's Xisha Islands.

*However, the current tensions in the South China Sea are neither incidental nor coincidental. Observers have noted that as the United States continues efforts to shift its focus to the Asia-Pacific, some regional countries are exploiting the situation to meet their own agenda. Actions taken by the United States to beef up military ties with its regional allies have also taken a toll on regional stability, with irresponsible remarks by U.S. officials regarding the incidents further complicating settlement of the disputes.*

Fishing for trouble

On May 6, the Philippine police detained a Chinese fishing boat Qiongqionghai 09063 and the 11 Chinese fishermen on board in waters off Half Moon Shoal of the Nansha Islands, two days after Manila and Washington launched their annual "shoulder to shoulder" military exercise.

The Chinese Foreign Ministry urged the Philippines to release the detained fishermen and their boat as the Half Moon Shoal is traditionally a major Chinese fishing base and China has undisputable sovereign rights over the area. However, the Philippine side ignored China's request and charged the fishermen with poaching endangered turtle species.

Luo Yuan, a retired major general and Executive Vice President of the Beijing-based China Strategic Culture Promotion Association, believed that the move taken by the Philippines is in violation of the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea.

*In a recent article published on the Chinese news outlet Global Times, Luo commented that if the fishermen were poaching endangered species around the Half Moon Shoal, the Philippines should have informed China, as the waters are under China's jurisdiction. The Philippine side had no right to make the arrests, he added.*

Wang Xiaopeng, a sea waters researcher at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences (CASS), said the Philippines is exploiting its alliance with the United States in the midst of its "pivot-to-Asia" strategy.

"The incident happened shortly after U.S. President Barack Obama's latest trip to Manila, so it's clear that the Philippines aims to lure the United States into its maritime disputes with China to test whether Washington is committed to strengthening military ties," Wang said.

During Obama's visit, Washington and Manila signed a 10-year-long Mutual Defense Treaty to increase the U.S. troop presence in the Southeast Asian country. Obama also pledged "ironclad" backing for the Philippines.

*With regards to the latest moves by Manila, the GMA News, a major commercial television and radio network in the Philippines, said Obama's visit was an indication that they have acquired the United States' protection.*

Since Obama left the Philippines, Manila has taken a series of provocative actions in the South China Sea. On May 3, the Philippine air force airdropped supplies to marines stationed on its old transport ship illegally stationed on China's Ren'ai Reef. The next day, the "shoulder-to-shoulder" drill was held at the maritime and land areas near the South China Sea. *On May 6, after the Philippine police detained the Chinese fishing boat, former Philippine senator Ramos Shahani openly trumpeted the idea of allowing the United States to set up military bases on the Ren'ai Reef and Huangyan Island.* Almost at the same time, a senior military officer of the Philippines unexpectedly posed a "defense plan concerning the South China Sea" through the Kyodo News Agency of Japan, advocating more actions to arm the islands and reefs in the disputed waters.

Wang said the series of moves by the Philippines were carefully planned. "As the U.S.-Philippine joint drill goes on, Manila's provocation of Beijing is meant to test whether Washington's commitments are merely empty talk," he said.

*Wang also mentioned that current social and economic problems within the Philippines have led politicians to shift public attention to the tussle with China over the maritime disputes.*

Diplomatic disarray

China's Xinhua News Agency reported that from May 3 to 7, about 36 Viet Nam vessels, including warships, intruded into waters near a Chinese oil rig in waters off the Xisha Islands to harass the drilling operation and ram Chinese boats.

The reports said Vietnamese frogmen were found just five meters away from Chinese ships in an act of intimidation, in addition to illegal placement of numerous broken fishing nets and other large obstacles in the waters that endanger passing ships and vessels. The Chinese ships eventually fought back with water cannons.

*As the tension built, the United States ignored the harassment by the Vietnamese and instead accused China of "provocation."*

U.S. State Department spokesperson Jen Psaki said in a statement that China's deployment of an oil rig in the South China Sea was "provocative." John Kerry, U.S. Secretary of State on May 12 also described China's self-defense maneuvers as "aggressive."

In response to the U.S. officials' remarks, Beijing urged Washington to reflect on its stance on the South China Sea.

*"There is indeed a country taking provocative actions in the South China Sea, but this country is not China," Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying said at a daily press briefing on May 13. "The recent series of irresponsible and factually incorrect comments from the United States have encouraged certain countries' dangerous and provocative behavior."*

"We expect the United States to reflect on its acts. If it indeed expects the Pacific Ocean to be pacific, it should consider what role it can play in maintaining regional peace and stability," Hua added.

Observers claimed that the intervention of outside parties have further complicated the security situation of the South China Sea and even the whole Asia-Pacific. It is neither helpful for the settlement of the disputes nor conducive to the lasting peace and stability of the region.

If the United States continues to incite the governments of some regional countries, peace can hardly be achieved in the South China Sea, Wang with the CASS said.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

*Philippines, Indonesia finalize text of agreement on Exclusive Economic Zone boundary*
Published: May 19, 2014.
*From the Department of Foreign Affairs*

The Philippines and Indonesia ended the 20-year-old negotiations for the delimitation of their overlapping exclusive economic zones (EEZs) in the Mindanao and Celebes Seas with the completion and finalization of the text of the Agreement and the chart on the EEZ Boundary.

Philippine Department of Foreign Affairs’ (DFA) Undersecretary for Policy Evan Garcia, and Indonesia Ministry of Foreign Affairs’ Acting Director-General for Legal Affairs and International Treaties Wiwiek Setyawati Firman have endorsed the signing of the “Agreement between the Republic of the Philippines and the Republic of Indonesia Concerning the Delimitation of the Exclusive Economic Zone Boundary” by their respective governments.

The two officials presided over the 8th Meeting of the Joint Permanent Working Group on Maritime and Ocean Concerns (JPWG-MOC) held on May 18 in Jakarta, where the two countries reviewed the text of the Agreement, and the chart showing the EEZ Boundary.

“The conclusion of the negotiations attests to the friendship, patience, goodwill and commitment of the Governments of the Philippines and Indonesia to peacefully address maritime issues. This is a significant contribution to, and an example of, reasonable efforts to build a stable and peaceful regional community, in consideration of the interests of countries concerned and in accordance with international law,” Garcia noted in his opening remarks.

Garcia also stressed the importance of a clearly defined maritime boundary between the Philippines and Indonesia, as it will “promote more cooperation in the EEZ in order to advance our common interest of managing and preserving the resources in the EEZ for the benefit of our peoples.”

He added that the Philippines learned so many lessons in the 20-year negotiations on the delimitation of the overlapping EEZs, particularly on the principles and the methods that were applied to reach an EEZ boundary line. Philippine Ambassador to Indonesia Maria Rosario Aguinaldo and Gilberto Asuque—Head of the Philippine Technical Working Group on Maritime Boundary Delimitation, and Deputy Chief of Mission of the Philippine Embassy in Tokyo—assisted Garcia during the meeting, along with the other members of the Philippine delegation.

The 8th meeting of the JPWG-MOC was preceded by the 4th Preparatory Meeting of the Technical Team held on May 17 also in Jakarta, where the diplomats, hydrographers, and cartographers from the two countries prepared the text of the Agreement and the details of the chart for the consideration of the 8th JPWG-MOC.

Asuque and Mr. Octavino—Director for Political, Security and Territorial Treaties, and Head of the Indonesian Technical Working Group on Maritime Boundary Delimitation—led their respective technical panels in the preparatory meeting for the 8th JPWG-MOC.

Garcia and Firman exchanged copies of the Record of Discussion of the 8th JPWG-MOC, which includes the draft Agreement and the chart that they endorsed for signing by Philippine Secretary of Foreign Affairs Albert del Rosario and Indonesian Foreign Minister R.M. Marty Natalegawa at the soonest possible time.

The charts illustrating the EEZ Boundary were signed for the Philippines by National Mapping and Resources Information Authority (NAMRIA) Administrator Peter Tiangco, and NAMRIA Hydrography Branch Director Jacinto Cablayan. Meanwhile, Geospatial Information Agency Head Asep Karsidi, and Indonesian Navy’s Chief Hydrographer Dede Yuliadi signed the charts on behalf of the Indonesian government.

The Philippines and Indonesia commenced the negotiations for the delimitation of their overlapping EEZs in June 1994 with the establishment of the JPWG-MOC, with its Sub-Working Groups and the Joint Technical Team. The JPWG-MOC and Technical Team held series of alternating meetings from 1994 to 2014 in the Philippines and Indonesia to come up with a delimitation line for the overlapping EEZs in the Mindanao and Celebes Seas.

The signing of the Agreement on the EEZ Boundary is the culmination of 20 years of negotiations by diplomatic and technical representatives of the two archipelagic states to find an equitable solution to their overlapping EEZs.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Hakan

*China building artificial island in South China Sea*​ 




_Airbus Defence and Space imagery shows land reclamation ongoing at Johnson South Reef in the South China Sea. Images released by the Philippine Ministry of Foreign Affairs on 15 May 2014 (left) show the progress of construction on the reef from 13 March 2012 to 11 March 2014. (CNES 2014, Distribution Astrium Services/Spot Image S.A./IHS)_​
China is attempting to bolster its presence in the South China Sea by creating an artificial island on a reef in the disputed Spratly Islands.

Satellite imagery provided by Airbus Defence and Space corroborates images released by the Philippine Ministry of Foreign Affairs that shows major land reclamation on Johnson South Reef, which is claimed by Manila as Mabini Reef, as Chigua Reef by China and Gac Ma by Vietnam.

Johnson South Reef was at the centre of a 1998 confrontation between China and Vietnam that left more than 70 Vietnamese personnel dead. After taking control of the reef China built a concrete platform and installed radio and communications equipment.

The images released by the Philippine Ministry of Foreign Affairs show that since February 2013 there has been extensive dredging of the atoll to create an islet around the platform. Other concrete structures have also been constructed.

The ministry said the construction appeared to be designed to support an airstrip and said it was "destabilising and in violation of the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea (DoC) and international law. Mabini Reef is part of the Kalayaan Island Group (KIG) which is part of Philippine territory".

The DoC was signed by China and the Association of South East Asian Nations (ASEAN) in 2002 and seeks to "promote a peaceful, friendly, and harmonious environment in the South China Sea between ASEAN and China".

Article 5 of the DoC states that the parties will "undertake to exercise self-restraint in the conduct of activities that would complicate or escalate disputes and affect peace and stability including, among others, refraining from action of inhabiting on the presently uninhabited islands, reefs, shoals, cays, and other features".

Local media reported that Manila estimates the reclamation to have turned the reef and a sand bar into a 30-hectare (74-acre) islet.

In Beijing Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying reiterated China's "indisputable sovereignty over the Nansha [Spratly] Islands including Chigua Reef and the contiguous waters. Whatever construction China carries out in the Chigua Reef is completely within China's sovereignty".

US State Department Deputy Spokesperson Marie Harf said Washington was aware of the reports and that "major upgrades or the militarisation of disputed land features in the South China Sea by any claimant has the potential to raise tensions".

*COMMENT*
China is the only major claimant to the Spratly islands not to have an island with an airstrip, so the construction under way at Johnson South Reef may be an attempt to rectify this situation. It is also not the only claimant to be bolstering its presence in the islands: Vietnam has conducted substantial land reclamation to create a harbour on Southwest Cay, while Taiwan is currently building a pier on Itu Aba (Taiping) island.

The construction at Johnson South Reef comes as China and Vietnam are sparring over the presence of a Chinese oil rig in Vietnam's claimed exclusive economic zone. It also suggests that China is looking to present other claimant nations with a fait accompli should any negotiated settlement on the Spratlys be agreed.

In the meantime, Beijing has strongly defended its actions in both the oil rig and Johnson South Reef cases and rejected attempts to deal with them on a multilateral basis. "The issue of the South China Sea is not one between China and ASEAN," Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Hua said on 10 May after Vietnam attempted to raise the issue at the annual ASEAN summit meeting held in Myanmar.

"China is opposed to certain country's scheme of spoiling the atmosphere of friendly co-operation between China and ASEAN by making use of the issue of the South China Sea," she added.

China building artificial island in South China Sea - IHS Jane's 360

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## tbquestion

I would have thought that *since *the battle at Johnson Reef in 1998, that Vietnam would have created some sort of deterrence against China such as nuclear weapon or alliances with strong countries (not Russia or India). Its a pity that Vietnamese sailors died at the Johnson Reef battle in vain.

Regarding the Scarborough shoal situation, the US mediate between the Philipine and China whereby both sides promise to withdraw their coast guard ships. The Philipine withdraw her ships, while China renege on her promise and kept her ships there ever since. If we take the Philipine situation as a guide, I doubt very much that China will pull her rig out as "promise" in August. It's this worse case scenario that Hanoi prays doesnt happen. If it does happen then Vietnam's economy is on a downward spiral with more street protests.

Indonesia and Malaysia should learn from the sad lessons of Vietnam and Philipine and try not to make the same mistakes. 





Kaan said:


> *China building artificial island in South China Sea*​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Airbus Defence and Space imagery shows land reclamation ongoing at Johnson South Reef in the South China Sea. Images released by the Philippine Ministry of Foreign Affairs on 15 May 2014 (left) show the progress of construction on the reef from 13 March 2012 to 11 March 2014. (CNES 2014, Distribution Astrium Services/Spot Image S.A./IHS)_​
> China is attempting to bolster its presence in the South China Sea by creating an artificial island on a reef in the disputed Spratly Islands.
> 
> Satellite imagery provided by Airbus Defence and Space corroborates images released by the Philippine Ministry of Foreign Affairs that shows major land reclamation on Johnson South Reef, which is claimed by Manila as Mabini Reef, as Chigua Reef by China and Gac Ma by Vietnam.
> 
> Johnson South Reef was at the centre of a 1998 confrontation between China and Vietnam that left more than 70 Vietnamese personnel dead. After taking control of the reef China built a concrete platform and installed radio and communications equipment.
> 
> The images released by the Philippine Ministry of Foreign Affairs show that since February 2013 there has been extensive dredging of the atoll to create an islet around the platform. Other concrete structures have also been constructed.
> 
> The ministry said the construction appeared to be designed to support an airstrip and said it was "destabilising and in violation of the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea (DoC) and international law. Mabini Reef is part of the Kalayaan Island Group (KIG) which is part of Philippine territory".
> 
> The DoC was signed by China and the Association of South East Asian Nations (ASEAN) in 2002 and seeks to "promote a peaceful, friendly, and harmonious environment in the South China Sea between ASEAN and China".
> 
> Article 5 of the DoC states that the parties will "undertake to exercise self-restraint in the conduct of activities that would complicate or escalate disputes and affect peace and stability including, among others, refraining from action of inhabiting on the presently uninhabited islands, reefs, shoals, cays, and other features".
> 
> Local media reported that Manila estimates the reclamation to have turned the reef and a sand bar into a 30-hectare (74-acre) islet.
> 
> In Beijing Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying reiterated China's "indisputable sovereignty over the Nansha [Spratly] Islands including Chigua Reef and the contiguous waters. Whatever construction China carries out in the Chigua Reef is completely within China's sovereignty".
> 
> US State Department Deputy Spokesperson Marie Harf said Washington was aware of the reports and that "major upgrades or the militarisation of disputed land features in the South China Sea by any claimant has the potential to raise tensions".
> 
> *COMMENT*
> China is the only major claimant to the Spratly islands not to have an island with an airstrip, so the construction under way at Johnson South Reef may be an attempt to rectify this situation. It is also not the only claimant to be bolstering its presence in the islands: Vietnam has conducted substantial land reclamation to create a harbour on Southwest Cay, while Taiwan is currently building a pier on Itu Aba (Taiping) island.
> 
> The construction at Johnson South Reef comes as China and Vietnam are sparring over the presence of a Chinese oil rig in Vietnam's claimed exclusive economic zone. It also suggests that China is looking to present other claimant nations with a fait accompli should any negotiated settlement on the Spratlys be agreed.
> 
> In the meantime, Beijing has strongly defended its actions in both the oil rig and Johnson South Reef cases and rejected attempts to deal with them on a multilateral basis. "The issue of the South China Sea is not one between China and ASEAN," Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Hua said on 10 May after Vietnam attempted to raise the issue at the annual ASEAN summit meeting held in Myanmar.
> 
> "China is opposed to certain country's scheme of spoiling the atmosphere of friendly co-operation between China and ASEAN by making use of the issue of the South China Sea," she added.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

tbquestion said:


> I would have thought that *since *the battle at Johnson Reef in 1998, that Vietnam would have created some sort of deterrence against China such as nuclear weapon or alliances with strong countries (not Russia or India). Its a pity that Vietnamese sailors died at the Johnson Reef battle in vain.
> 
> Regarding the Scarborough shoal situation, the US mediate between the Philipine and China whereby both sides promise to withdraw their coast guard ships. The Philipine withdraw her ships, while China renege on her promise and kept her ships there ever since. If we take the Philipine situation as a guide, I doubt very much that China will pull her rig out as "promise" in August. It's this worse case scenario that Hanoi prays doesnt happen. If it does happen then Vietnam's economy is on a downward spiral with more street protests.
> 
> Indonesia and Malaysia should learn from the sad lessons of Vietnam and Philipine and try not to make the same mistakes.


What's lesson with VN case then ... !?
And "Vietnam's economy is on a downward spiral with more street protests" !?


----------



## CN.Black

Rechoice said:


> posting photo is your job ?


 I can imagine how you trembled in front of your computer screen.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## tbquestion

Soryu said:


> What's lesson with VN case then ... !?
> And "Vietnam's economy is on a downward spiral with more street protests" !?





tbquestion said:


> I would have thought that *since *the battle at Johnson Reef in 1998, that Vietnam would have created some sort of deterrence against China such as nuclear weapon or alliances with strong countries (not Russia or India). Its a pity that Vietnamese sailors died at the Johnson Reef battle in vain.
> 
> Regarding the Scarborough shoal situation, the US mediate between the Philipine and China whereby both sides promise to withdraw their coast guard ships. The Philipine withdraw her ships, while China renege on her promise and kept her ships there ever since. If we take the Philipine situation as a guide, I doubt very much that China will pull her rig out as "promise" in August. It's this worse case scenario that Hanoi prays doesnt happen. If it does happen then Vietnam's economy is on a downward spiral with more street protests.
> 
> Indonesia and Malaysia should learn from the sad lessons of Vietnam and Philipine and try not to make the same mistakes.




I don't know if Vietnam realizes this, but no matter how many weapons Vietnam buy, China is always one step ahead of Vietnam with more and better weapons. There are no weapons that Vietnam that currently possesses that threaten China. Even if there is a war, a loss of six submarine and ten frigates is a drop of a water for China, but a big loss for Vietnam.
The only thing that makes China think twice before instigating trouble with any countries is a nuclear weapon.
Israel, a country that is outnumbered by her enemies realized this long time ago, that's why she had a nuclear bomb. The same goes with Pakistan versus India. Even Japan and the USA treats North Korea with caution as she has a nuclear weapon. Taiwan does n't need a nuclear weapon as it has the US in its corner. 

Its so strange that Vietnam spend so much money on convention weapons such as submarines, s-300 and fighter jets, yet China still place a rig in her backyard.


----------



## Pangu

tbquestion said:


> I don't know if Vietnam realizes this, but no matter how many weapons Vietnam buy, China is always one step ahead of Vietnam with more and better weapons. There are no weapons that Vietnam that currently possesses that threaten China. Even if there is a war, a loss of six submarine and ten frigates is a drop of a water for China, but a big loss for Vietnam.
> The only thing that makes China think twice before instigating trouble with any countries is a nuclear weapon.
> Israel, a country that is outnumbered by her enemies realized this long time ago, that's why she had a nuclear bomb. The same goes with Pakistan versus India. Even Japan and the USA treats North Korea with caution as she has a nuclear weapon. Taiwan does n't need a nuclear weapon as it has the US in its corner.
> 
> Its so strange that Vietnam spend so much money on convention weapons such as submarines, s-300 and fighter jets, yet China still place a rig in her backyard.



Correction. The oil rig is placed in our own backyard, 18nm from ZhongJian Island within our contiguous zone, as stipulated by UNCLOS, whether you or anyone object or not, we will do as we like in our territory.

As for aquiring nukes, go ahead & aquire them Vietnam. Those are Strategic weapons of mass destruction for doomsday deterrent. If you think Vietnam acquiring nuke will stop us from doing what we do in our own backyard, then you are seriously mistaken & naive.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

tbquestion said:


> would have thought that since the battle at Johnson Reef in 1998, that Vietnam would have created some sort of deterrence against China such as nuclear weapon or alliances with strong countries (not Russia or India). Its a pity that Vietnamese sailors died at the Johnson Reef battle in vain.



Our logistic soldiers died for sovereignty of our country. There was evidence for that China is robbed our islands with force. That is illegal occupation.



tbquestion said:


> I don't know if Vietnam realizes this, but no matter how many weapons Vietnam buy, China is always one step ahead of Vietnam with more and better weapons. There are no weapons that Vietnam that currently possesses that threaten China. Even if there is a war, a loss of six submarine and ten frigates is a drop of a water for China, but a big loss for Vietnam.
> The only thing that makes China think twice before instigating trouble with any countries is a nuclear weapon.
> Israel, a country that is outnumbered by her enemies realized this long time ago, that's why she had a nuclear bomb. The same goes with Pakistan versus India. Even Japan and the USA treats North Korea with caution as she has a nuclear weapon. Taiwan does n't need a nuclear weapon as it has the US in its corner.
> 
> Its so strange that Vietnam spend so much money on convention weapons such as submarines, s-300 and fighter jets, yet China still place a rig in her backyard.



we should develop our own nuke.


----------



## cirr

CMS 4001 and 4002 formally inducted on 21.05.2014：

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## EastSea

cirr said:


> CMS 4001 and 4002 formally inducted on 21.05.2014：



posting failure, not seen.


----------



## cirr

12800-tonne CCG flagship(1st of 4 vessels) under construction at JNS

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

tbquestion said:


> I don't know if Vietnam realizes this, but no matter how many weapons Vietnam buy, China is always one step ahead of Vietnam with more and better weapons. There are no weapons that Vietnam that currently possesses that threaten China. Even if there is a war, a loss of six submarine and ten frigates is a drop of a water for China, but a big loss for Vietnam.
> The only thing that makes China think twice before instigating trouble with any countries is a nuclear weapon.
> Israel, a country that is outnumbered by her enemies realized this long time ago, that's why she had a nuclear bomb. The same goes with Pakistan versus India. Even Japan and the USA treats North Korea with caution as she has a nuclear weapon. Taiwan does n't need a nuclear weapon as it has the US in its corner.
> 
> Its so strange that Vietnam spend so much money on convention weapons such as submarines, s-300 and fighter jets, yet China still place a rig in her backyard.


Excellent opinion, buddy, like nobody know it ...
Sure as hell, China is big, Vietnam is small, we know that for thousand years, that why Vietnamese country still exist while many countries was swallowed by China.
North Korea has her way and attempt to has nuclear deterrence.
Vietnam has different position and path, so we come to this day with what we have.

Conventional weapons have their place to use, you can win if you good.
If Vietnamese can touch nuclear toys, you think what will China do !?
Vietnam is not Israel, Pakistan or NK, different background, potential and path, so we will only got nuclear deterrence if we're in position like those other ...


cirr said:


> 12800-tonne CCG flagship(1st of 4 vessels) under construction at JNS


failure hotlink image ...
Do you have any CG image about these !?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

Could Indonesia and the others want to join the show !?

*China Must Exit Disputed Waters, Asean Leader Says*






Officers of the Vietnamese Marine Guard monitor a Chinese coast guard vessel on the South China Sea, about 210 kilometers off the coast of Vietnam, on Thursday. Reuters

JAKARTA, Indonesia—China needs to leave disputed waters of the South China Sea, the Asean secretary-general said Friday.

The "next step now, we have to get China out of the territorial waters of" Vietnam, Secretary-General Le Luong Minh told The Wall Street Journal. "That's the first thing."

Doing that "will be conducive to restoring confidence" in talks to resolve disputed claims by several countries in the resource-rich waters, Mr. Minh said.

Mr. Minh, a Vietnamese national, was speaking amid an outburst of violence this week outside Ho Chi Minh City and in central Vietnam in response to a tense standoff over an oil rig China recently placed in contested parts of the South China Sea.

Vietnam says the Chinese oil rig is 241 kilometers from Vietnam's shore, well within its "exclusive economic zone," defined by the United Nations as areas extending 370 km from a country's coast. China, however, claims jurisdiction over the waters, off the Paracel Islands, which are controlled by China but also claimed by Hanoi.

Mr. Minh's statement was the strongest yet by a spokesman for the 10-member Association of Southeast Asian Nations. Four Asean members—Vietnam, the Philippines, Malaysia and Brunei—have territorial disputes with China in the waters.

The statement also marked a shift for Mr. Minh, who during an Asean summit last weekend pointed to a joint statement that expressed "serious concern" over the Vietnam-China confrontation but stopped shy of criticizing Beijing.

On Friday, Mr. Minh said China's move was a setback to regional talks and showed again that a declaration of conduct signed by China and Asean in 2002 "has not been effective enough in preventing these incidents."

A lack of progress with China in resolving territorial claims has been "disappointing," he said, and the latest incident made it all the "more important that we try to engage in substantive consultations and negotiations."

_Indonesian Foreign Minister Marty Natalegawa told The Wall Street Journal on Friday that *he shared Mr. Minh's view that "this is a very dangerous situation" and that he was calling on Asean members to "renew their thoughts on the South China Sea."*_

Mr. Natalegawa stopped short of supporting Mr. Minh's calls for China to leave the region, but said "China must deliver on its officially stated commitment to implement" the 2002 declaration and push forward with talks in earnest.

Currently, he said, there is "almost an attempt to deny there is an issue in the first place."

Sek Wannamethee, spokesman for Thailand's Foreign Ministry, declined to comment on Mr. Minh's statement, saying the conflict was a bilateral issue between Vietnam and China.

The islands, reefs and atolls of the South China Sea, and the waters around them, are claimed in whole or in part by six governments. Though the disputes have prevented thorough exploration, energy analysts believe significant reserves of oil and gas lie beneath its seabed.

*Write to *Ben Otto

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Soryu

*Indonesia’s Foreign Minister Weighs in on China-Vietnam Standoff *





Indonesian Foreign Minister Marty Natalegawa delivers a speech in Jakarta, on March 1.
European Pressphoto Agency

By itself, Vietnam seems to have little recourse in its current standoff with China over waters both claim.

And so far it has had limited success in rallying the support of its closest neighbors – or the 10-member Association of Southeast Asian nations, which has long tried to negotiate a binding Code of Conduct in the disputed sea. The regional body signed a declaration of conduct with China in 2002 intended to usher in that code.

Indonesia, where Asean has its head office, has played a mediating role in resolving a handful of regional conflicts, including a dispute between Thailand and Cambodia and over a historic temple.

In an interview, Foreign Minister Marty Natalegawa weighed in on some of the issues confronting Asean and Indonesia in the current China-Vietnam impasse. Edited excerpts follow.


*On Asean’s role*
It’s both a bilateral and a regional issue, and Asean has a special responsibility to ensure that the conditions are right for the two sides to talk. By not doing anything, we are actually doing something by making it worse. In this case, Asean’s state of mind, in terms of rallying around Vietnam in this situation, was instant and immediate.

*On China’s actions*
There is almost an attempt to deny there is an issue in the first place; the acknowledgement of dispute is what is now being tested. China must deliver on its often-stated commitment to implement the DOC. It’s clear as daylight about the need to exercise restraint.

*Questions Mr. Natalegawa is asking*
How can all of the DOC become practically relevant? If not now, when? We have all these wonderfully-crafted principles; the time for relevance is now.

*On Asean’s progress*
This time around, fortunately, we have the basics; we have the six-point principles after the Asean foreign ministers meeting in Cambodia in 2012. Now I’m trying to take it one notch higher. If China says it’s committed to implementing the DOC and creating the COC how can we reconcile that with China’s position that there is no dispute?

*The next step*
Indonesia is calling on Asean states to renew their thoughts on the South China Sea in a more robust manner. And Indonesia is keen to build on what should be uniting the two countries. Number one is communication. In the first few days of confrontation, China and Vietnam weren’t even taking phone calls with one another, and now they are. At least communication is underway.

I’ve also been in intensive communication with foreign ministers of China and Vietnam. Both sides independently say they want restraint – in words. I have been trying to get the two to define what they mean by self-restraint.

*Write to *Cris Larano at cris.larano@wsj.com

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zero_wing

Asean is dead and gone the Issue as proven that! its only good for Economics nothing more


----------



## cirr

Man-made Islands from reefs in the SCS










欢迎来到中船第九设计研究院工程有限公司网站！

China has grand designs on the SCS。A lot more to come。You arn't see nothing yet。

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## terranMarine

keep us informed of these grand plans cirr

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

CCG 2306 launched：






提示信息 - HSH发烧友论坛 - Powered by Discuz!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

cirr said:


> Man-made Islands from reefs in the computer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China has grand designs on the computer。A lot more to come。You arn't see nothing yet。


fixed for you ...


----------



## Soryu

_*Toward the East Sea - Young Vietnamese's spirit*_

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Ginsu33

Soryu said:


> _*Toward the East Sea - Young Vietnamese's spirit*_


 
Beautiful photos.

It's been a long winded read and a lot of discouraging back and forth from both Vietnamese and Chinese supporters. When patriotism and pride is being involved in what is down to it's most basic levels; a grab for resources and wealth, it's a sad reminder of the reality of the world we live in.

Any nation, regardless of it's intentions should be prepared to defend it's interests both at home and overseas. Because the capablity to do so will always be the deciding factor in disputes such as this one, the claim of ownership alone means nothing if you cannot enforce it.

Vietnam is a beautiful country with a strong military history and wealth of exerpience, but they needed to choose their battles more carefully.

Regarding China, what can I say. They managed to encourage an arms race across the pacific. Being a military-super power with force projection capabilities is a fantastic achievement to strive for, however being a military-super power in a region where every nation's military is against you is a strategic nightmare that China seems to have accepted as it's fate.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TaiShang

Ginsu33 said:


> Regarding China, what can I say. They managed to encourage an arms race across the pacific. Being a military-super power with force projection capabilities is a fantastic achievement to strive for, however being a military-super power in a region where every nation's military is against you is a strategic nightmare that China seems to have accepted as it's fate.



It is not an arms race. It is a rational desire to have better defense capabilities than your real and potential adversaries. It is bound to happen as it is in the nature of things. Not just with arms, with everything else. Before China, Japan was a formidable naval power in the region. So maybe, Japan triggered an arms race. Why would China subscribe to the idea of Japan having a better navy when China is capable of outdoing them?

Going further back, maybe it is the US triggering an arms race because they are kind of a standard where everybody aims to reach at. By the logic, if the US reduces its arms superiority, then, this will naturally result in a reduced arms race. 

You see? Your logic is corrupted and you are seeking moral high ground by bashing China. Like any other country, China is also under certain geopolitical influences. If you want to go up to the top of the real initiator, start with the US. There is no rational explanation why would China stop until it ensured it is equal to (or greater than) the US in military power. 

When/if this happens, even the hypothesis that every nation's military is against China means nothing. They will envy and copy you.


----------



## Soryu

TaiShang said:


> It is not an arms race. It is a rational desire to have better defense capabilities than your real and potential adversaries. It is bound to happen as it is in the nature of things. Not just with arms, with everything else. Before China, Japan was a formidable naval power in the region. So maybe, Japan triggered an arms race. Why would China subscribe to the idea of Japan having a better navy when China is capable of outdoing them?
> 
> Going further back, maybe it is the US triggering an arms race because they are kind of a standard where everybody aims to reach at. By the logic, if the US reduces its arms superiority, then, this will naturally result in a reduced arms race.
> 
> You see? Your logic is corrupted and you are seeking moral high ground by bashing China. Like any other country, China is also under certain geopolitical influences. If you want to go up to the top of the real initiator, start with the US. There is no rational explanation why would China stop until it ensured it is equal to (or greater than) the US in military power.
> 
> When/if this happens, even the hypothesis that every nation's military is against China means nothing. They will envy and copy you.


PRC triggered a arms race because her greedy desire with territory, this how everyone point at China and condemn her.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ViXuyen



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Ginsu33

TaiShang said:


> It is not an arms race. It is a rational desire to have better defense capabilities than your real and potential adversaries.


 
Carrier groups provide force projection capabilities, they are offensive measures.
Anti-Ship missile systems to keep the US NAVY out are defensive measures.

When you can explain to me the need for Chinese Marines or PLA elements with air support to be deployed outside of mainland China for defensive purpose that does not involve defending the disputed islands, I would like to hear it.



TaiShang said:


> Why would China subscribe to the idea of Japan having a better navy when China is capable of outdoing them?


That's exactly my point.
Why would China subscribe to the idea of any other naval power in the region. Mainland China is not under threat, nor is the Chinese market that the Pacific perfer over a US one. The only threat to China are the disputed islands it wishes to control.



TaiShang said:


> ...you are seeking moral high ground by bashing China.


 
I don't question China's desire to rise above the US, what I do bring to question is the fact that China's actions have made it's neighbours consider China to be an aggressor rather than a suitable alternative to the US, to provide security and stability in the region. In simple terms, China decided to "jump the gun" with their aggression.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TaiShang

Ginsu33 said:


> Carrier groups provide force projection capabilities, they are offensive measures.
> Anti-Ship missile systems to keep the US NAVY out are defensive measures.
> 
> When you can explain to me the need for Chinese Marines or PLA elements with air support to be deployed outside of mainland China for defensive purpose that does not involve defending the disputed islands, I would like to hear it.



Without good offensive capabilities, defense means nothing. Nothing for a country as big as China, especially. As I said, China's military development is not to be limited to the region; that's obvious. If this leads to an arms race, so be it. 

But I agree, arms race should stop when China achieves greater capabilities than the US/West. Then we will advise the west not to indulge into arms race. Currently, China is only playing catch-up (and beat up, in some fields). East Asia is only one aspect of his development, not the whole of it.



Ginsu33 said:


> Why would China subscribe to the idea of any other naval power in the region. Mainland China is not under threat, nor is the Chinese market that the Pacific perfer over a US one. The only threat to China are the disputed islands it wishes to control.



No, that's may be true only currently. But national strategy requires (especially for big, capable countries) to get ready and prepare for the worst case scenario. The worst case would be a war with the US (limited or regional, no body knows). The mere existence of the enemy's/adversary's capabilities is enough evidence to seek equal (or more) capabilities. That;s the nature of a great power. China will not listen to advise from smaller powers even though they mean it. China cannot agree to the status quo when it is overshadowed by another country/bloc.



Ginsu33 said:


> I don't question China's desire to rise above the US, what I do bring to question is the fact that China's actions have made it's neighbours consider China to be an aggressor rather than a suitable alternative to the US, to provide security and stability in the region. In simple terms, China decided to "jump the gun" with their aggression.



It takes two to tango. It is action and reaction. The best strategy is to be proactive. Let the adversary's actions to be conditioned to yours. China is only partially proactive so far. For example, Japan seized the lead when they nationalized disputed islands and forced China into reaction. 

I presume, as its capabilities further grow, China will become more proactive, which does not mean aggressive. But it is at the same time unavoidable that some would still consider China's actions to be aggressive. In the end, it is an interest driven world and nobody (I mean nation states) claims ethical behavior until and unless it serves their interest.


----------



## Ginsu33

TaiShang said:


> Without good offensive capabilities, defense means nothing.



That would suggest China requires the ability to invade it's neighbors for adequate defense despite being a nuclear power since 64' with no direct threat to it's mainland. 





Future Chinese Carriers will provide 'Force-Projection' - to intimidate other nations and implement policy by means of force, or the threat thereof, in an area distant from its own territory.

To summarize your statements you argue that China is simply taking a reaction stance in response to the actions of it's neighbors, that the ideology behind the rise of a great world power will facilitate in the creation of offensive capabilities to rival their enemies, so on and so forth. I find it disturbing that you contribute these maneuvers in a way that could be considered letting nature, (or in this case China) take it's course. 

However this is not a natural evolution put into motion by Beijing, it's the just the *String of Pearls strategy *


----------



## ice bomb

Q&A: South China Sea Tensions and the Future of Asean 
By Sara Schonhardt

Q&A: South China Sea Tensions and the Future of Asean - Southeast Asia Real Time - WSJ

A simmering dispute between China and some of its Southeast Asian neighbors over the South China Sea flared up last week – sparking deadly riots and protests in Vietnam. China’s increasingly aggressive moves to press its claims to parts of the waters, believed to be rich in oil, has drawn out deep-seated grievances in Vietnam and posed challenges to the Association of Southeast Asian Nations, a body formed nearly 50 years ago to ensure peace in the region.

Southeast Asia Real Time asked several experts their thoughts on the current tensions and what they mean for the future security of Southeast Asia. Here are their responses.



Ian Storey, senior fellow specializing in Asian security issues at the Institute of Southeast Asian Studies in Singapore. 

WSJ: *Is there ever a chance that Asean could adopt the role of a security alliance? And if not, is it time to create a separate grouping that could serve this role?*
Mr. Storey: *Absolutely not. Asean has eschewed the role of a military alliance since its foundation in 1967. At the time, the five members were all pro-Western and anti-Communist and yet they still rejected the role of a military alliance – now the membership is much more diverse and member states do not perceive a common threat. In general, the prospect of an “Asian NATO” is pretty much close to zero. Why form a military alliance against your largest trade partner?*

WSJ: Is Asean maxed out? It wasn’t founded to deal with the kinds of disputes we’ve seen it face in recent years, so has it reached it reached the full extent of its usefulness?

Mr. Storey: No, Asean is not maxed out. It’s still extremely important for the member states, as well as external powers who continue to court it. Asean cannot resolve the South China Sea dispute – only the claimants can do that among themselves, or by submitting the dispute to the International Court of Justice. Asean’s role in the SCS dispute is to promote a conflict management process which aims at reducing tensions and building trust. But after 20 years, the results are mixed, to say the least.

WSJ: How big a challenge to Asean’s legitimacy are the disputes we’re seeing now? What role do countries not involved, such as Indonesia, have to play in calming tensions?
Mr. Storey: To some extent the SCS dispute does put Asean’s credibility on the line. Part of the blame lies with China because of its assertive behavior, and part of the blame lies with Asean itself because of the lack of a strong consensus within the organization on how to deal with China and identify pathways to a resolution.



Carl Thayer, professor humanities and social sciences and an expert on Vietnamese foreign policy in the Australian Defense Force Academy at the University of New South Wales. 

WSJ: Can the Vietnamese government stand up for itself enough to calm the anger and protests within the country without forcing China to act even more provocatively?

Mr. Thayer: Yes the Vietnam government has extensive resources to repress any further protests, violent or otherwise, that take place. The Vietnamese government has also moved to assuage China by clamping down and arresting workers involved in the violent attacks on Chinese and other foreign invested properties. But the Vietnamese government will have its work cut out calming nationalist anti-China sentiment. Many of those who protested peacefully in the cities are critical by what they perceive as government inaction.

WSJ: *Vietnam obviously can’t stand up militarily to China but also doesn’t seem to have much support from its Asean neighbors. What would it need to do to strike an alliance with the U.S. similar to what the Philippines has? And is this something it desires?*
Mr. Thayer: *Vietnam will not strike an alliance with the United States under any circumstances. Vietnam is fearful that in the end China and the U.S. will reach agreement over the South China Sea at Vietnam’s expense. Vietnam has a policy of three no’s enshrined in the last two Defense White Papers: no foreign military bases, no military alliances, and no use of a third country against another country. U.S.-Vietnam defense and security relations are very low level.*

WSJ: How serious is the current standoff – worse than the border war in 1979? And what might it portend for the future?
Mr. Thayer: The current crisis is the worst eruption in bilateral relations since the 1979 border war, but it hardly bears comparison. In 1977 and 1978, prior to the border war, there were rising deadly incidents along the Sino-Vietnamese border. A quarter of a million ethnic Chinese (or Hoa people) fled into southern China. After the border war, the border was tense, featuring frequent Chinese artillery barrages during Vietnam’s decade-long intervention in Cambodia.

*An escalation of violence is always a possibility given the daily confrontation at sea around the oil rig. China will bluster and get its pound of flesh for the violence directed at Chinese factories and workers. China will keep up the pressure long enough to convince Vietnam to adopt a conciliatory and accommodationist posture. When China put the rig in Vietnam’s waters it claimed it would operate from May 2 to August 15. China kept the door open for it to de-escalate on its terms. At some point China will receive a Vietnamese high-level envoy and they will reach terms to manage this situation. Both sides will put a spin on their agreement as part of a face-saving arrangement.*



Murray Hiebert, a senior fellow at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington D.C.

*WSJ: How do Asean’s members relate to China?
Mr. Hiebert: For many countries in Southeast Asia, China is their biggest aid donor, biggest investor, and most important trading partner. Vietnam, for example, gets much of its electricity for the northern part of the country and many of the inputs for its booming garment exports from China. Thailand is Asean’s interlocutor with China.*

WSJ: What came out of the recent biannual Asean summit in Myanmar?
Mr. Hiebert: Vietnam clearly wanted Asean leaders to make a strong statement condemning China’s positioning of an oil exploration rig in Vietnam’s exclusive economic zone as violating its sovereignty. In the end, ASEAN officials expressed concern about the tensions and called for peaceful resolution of the dispute. In hindsight, not much more could have been expected. Asean countries have very different views about China. Four countries (Brunei, Malaysia, Philippines, Vietnam) are disputants with China in the South China Sea and for countries like Cambodia and Laos, China is the largest aid donor,” said Mr. Heibert, noting that Singapore and Thailand are “cautious” about irritating China. “Considering these very different perspectives on the role of China in the region, expressions of concern would likely have been all that all 10 Asean countries could have agreed on.


----------



## TaiShang

Soryu said:


> PRC triggered a arms race because her greedy desire with territory, this how everyone point at China and condemn her.




*China has long been considered ASEAN's active partner, says Malaysian PM*

by Hu Guangyao

KUALA LUMPUR, May 24 (Xinhua) -- China has long been considered ASEAN's most active partner and this trend looks certain to continue, Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Tun Razak said on Saturday.

In 2010, ASEAN and China signed a five-year Plan of Action ( 2011-2015) to implement the Joint Declaration on ASEAN-China Strategic Partnership for Peace and Prosperity. Under this plan, *close to 200 projects have been undertaken for 2012-2013 alone*, Najib said in an exclusive interview with Xinhua.

The implemented activities cover various areas - from agriculture to small and medium-sized enterprises to media cooperation.

*People-to-people contacts are also rising significantly, with the increase in the exchange of students between ASEAN and China,* the prime minister said.

*The ASEAN-China free trade area is also the biggest in the world,* he added.

Last year, ASEAN and China celebrated the 10th anniversary of strategic partnership. Many bold proposals were laid out to strengthen ASEAN-China relations.

"Malaysia is encouraged with the strong commitment to ASEAN shown by the new Chinese administration and is supportive of many of the proposals. In this regard, Malaysia looks forward to closer ASEAN-China relations," he said.

"Malaysia becomes chair of ASEAN in 2015 the same year ASEAN is set to become an ASEAN Community. In this regard, *China has played a pivotal role in ASEAN's connectivity as well as efforts in narrowing the development gap in the region.*

*"ASEAN appreciates China's sincere efforts in this endeavor and hopes China will continue to be supportive of ASEAN," Najib said.*

"Malaysia believes China will be a strong partner of ASEAN in 2015 and the years to come," he added.


----------



## tbquestion

Everyone know that the best time to tackle a problem is when it is still small, and no doubts China view Vietnam as a small problem that can be big problem in the future. China has the right to feel this for the following reasons:

By 2016, Vietnam will have six submarines, Sigma frigates, T-90 tanks, Iskander ballistic missiles ( can carry nuclear payload), Bal-E coastal defense systems, Yakhont anti-ship missiles and maybe Gripen fighter planes. With the way things are going, a new Prime Minister and government that are possibly pro-US. Of course, by that time the US will also have a new president, one that is not indecisive and weak like Obama.

Australia (which is usually on the sideline regarding ASEAN matters) has just announced that she will turn her new amphibious assault ships into aircraft carriers that will carry Joint Strike Fighters . I wonder why??!

Vietnam and Phillipine have expressed interest in working together for a common goal. This is good, because the US can passed military know-how to Vietnam through the Phillipine without causing a stir back home. 

Even though Vietnam wont be a superpower in the near future, I believe she is on her way to becoming a "middle power". One, that will give any superpowers, including USA and even Russia a good fight in any conflicts.


----------



## Indos

China will always have an oil and gas supply from Muslim countries and China also has so much money to spend on oil. For instant, we export cheap gas to China from Tangguh project (even the price is much much lower than the gas sold in Indonesia). Just keep being a good friend of Muslim Countries and make a closer ties with them. In this way, China economy and military will always get oil and gas support from us. Vietnam is still developing and has so many poor people on it. Just leave them alone. And actually, is there really much oil on that sea ? I don't think so.........Why don't search for the oil first before making a war decision.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

CCG “Tuo-25”


----------



## Soryu

tbquestion said:


> Everyone know that the best time to tackle a problem is when it is still small, and no doubts China view Vietnam as a small problem that can be big problem in the future. China has the right to feel this for the following reasons:
> 
> By 2016, Vietnam will have six submarines, Sigma frigates, T-90 tanks, Iskander ballistic missiles ( can carry nuclear payload), Bal-E coastal defense systems, Yakhont anti-ship missiles and maybe Gripen fighter planes. With the way things are going, a new Prime Minister and government that are possibly pro-US. Of course, by that time the US will also have a new president, one that is not indecisive and weak like Obama.
> 
> Australia (which is usually on the sideline regarding ASEAN matters) has just announced that she will turn her new amphibious assault ships into aircraft carriers that will carry Joint Strike Fighters . I wonder why??!
> 
> Vietnam and Phillipine have expressed interest in working together for a common goal. This is good, because the US can passed military know-how to Vietnam through the Phillipine without causing a stir back home.
> 
> Even though Vietnam wont be a superpower in the near future, I believe she is on her way to becoming a "middle power". One, that will give any superpowers, including USA and even Russia a good fight in any conflicts.


Opps, you're just see on one way that Vietnam was a threat to China !? And China must defend itself from US by play this "oil drilling" game !?
No, sir, read again their claim: sovereignty all in 9-dash-lines, over 80-90% SCS. No law, their rule only ...


Indos said:


> China will always have an oil and gas supply from Muslim countries and China also has so much money to spend on oil. For instant, we export cheap gas to China from Tangguh project (even the price is much much lower than the gas sold in Indonesia). Just keep being a good friend of Muslim Countries and make a closer ties with them. In this way, China economy and military will always get oil and gas support from us. Vietnam is still developing and has so many poor people on it. Just leave them alone. And actually, is there really much oil on that sea ? I don't think so.........Why don't search for the oil first before making a war decision.


Did you think they don't have capability to know whether there's oil or not !?
Vietnam has some joint-exploration actions with Exxon Mobil on those areas, and result: still no sign of oil.

The rest: your guess ...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## tbquestion

The monsoon season starts in August and the SC sea can be a rough place for any ships. What happen if China cant find oil by then? China 's excursion was meant to draw the Vietnamese navy into a conflict near the Paracels Island, where they have an advantage of being close to their base. 

The Vietnamese navy know that the real prize is the Spratly Island, thats why they holding back and waiting for the Chinese to get there. 

The Vietnamese also know that old scores ( sinking of their fishing boats etc) will be settled in future conflict, that's why they are conserving their strength and holding back from retaliating.

China starting to look bad and she need a war with Vietnam to make her little adventure in the SCS worthwhile.


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

@tbquestion
No need to worry too much for us. Take care of the waters around Natuna Islands EEZ. I am sure that if the chinese are successfully in bullying Vietnam and Philippines, their next target will be Indonesia and Malaysia waters.

You know the chinese claim "nine dash line"?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cirr

*Chinese military building artificial island*

By Jaime Laude, The Philippine Star

Posted at 05/27/2014 9:49 AM | Updated as of 05/27/2014 12:38 PM

MANILA, Philippines - China plans to build a $5-billion artificial island envisioned to be a ''super aircraft carrier'' in the Spratlys within the Philippines’ 200-mile exclusive economic zone (EEZ).

The online news site Qianzhan.com reported that the No. 9 Design and Research Institute of China State Shipbuilding Corp. has come up with a proposed design of the artificial island being reclaimed from the sea in the Chinese-occupied Fiery Cross Reef, south of Mabini Reef (South Johnson Reef).

China is building a five-square-kilometer military base three meters above sea level near Fiery Cross Reef.

Estimated construction cost is $5 billion to take 10 years to complete, similar to the construction of a 100,000-ton nuclear-powered aircraft carrier.

The report said the Chinese military has also drawn up plans for occupied Panganiban (Mischief) Reef, located very close to mainland Palawan.

“Construction of the two artificial islands at Mischief Reef and Fiery Cross Reef, will be equivalent to that for building an aircraft carrier, but the strategic gains will be very big,” the report said.

“The artificial island at Fiery Cross Reef will be an unreplaceable military base with great strategic significance due to its location and size. Such a base will realize the value of the South China Sea for China and ensure China’s status in South East Asia.

“If this plan is adopted by the government instead of the plan to seize the Zhongye Island (Pag-Asa Island) back from the Philippines, there will be no war at the South China Sea to affect China’s relations with the US and ASEAN.”

The report said Panganiban Reef will be transformed into a fishery center in the South China Sea, apart from its use for military purposes.

Income from fishing and fish farming are enough to recover the construction costs, the report added.

Panganiban Reef has been transformed into a modern forward naval station for China’s Navy.

It occupies the area in the guise of building a shelter for its fishermen in 1994. – *With Paolo Romero*

http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/nation/05/27/14/chinese-military-building-artificial-island

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

*US senators to visit Vietnam, study East Sea issues*
_VietNamNet Bridge – Increased tensions in the East Sea will be part of discussions between Vietnamese and American lawmakers during a Hanoi visit this week by a delegation from the Senate Foreign Relations Subcommittee on East Asian and Pacific Affairs._

_Chairman of the National Assembly Committee for External Affairs Tran Van Hang said on May 26 the aim of US senators’ visit is to seek ways to promote the comprehensive partnership between Vietnam and the US, and explore Vietnam’s stance towards the East Sea issue after China illegally placed its oil rig Haiyang Shiyou-981 in Vietnam’s exclusive economic zone.

“Some senators know Vietnam very little, and we want them to fully understand Vietnam’s legal basis and sovereign history in the East Sea,” Hang told the media on the sidelines of the ongoing National Assembly session in Hanoi.

He said the US has made positive response to the East Sea tensions, especially statements by the Senate President and other congressmen. He also confirmed Vietnam will take every measure to protect its sovereignty.

During the visit, US senators will learn from Vietnam’s enforcement of the revised Constitution and especially human rights issues. The US Senate is currently examining a Vietnam human rights bill.

Vietnam welcomes US senators’ visit to exchange views on differences so as to promote mutual understanding and deal with human right issues fairly, Hang said.

Source: VOV
_


----------



## ViXuyen

Drill baby drill

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## DragonEmpire

Looks like a nice spot for Platform 981


----------



## EastSea

DragonEmpire said:


> Looks like a nice spot for Platform 981



100 kg NTN is enough.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## tbquestion

International experts are now saying that China is most likely to find gas deposit in the SCS, given that her rig is close by the area where Exon discovered gas deposit in 2011 & 2012. 

At that point war b/t China and Vietnam is unavoidable b/c Vietnam will never let China pump the gas out in peace. Right now China is baiting Vietnam into a war b/c she knows that in a few years Vietnam will be too hot to handle. At the moment Vietnam is trying to avoid military confrontation to save her naval assets for the future.

Eventually, Vietnam knows she will have to engage China military because she knows that a bully is never satisfied until he has taken everything from you. 

One of the mystery in all this is India position on the SCS matter. Does she wants China to significantly destroy one of her friends in the region? 
We all know Russia doestnt care as it knows a bruised Vietnam will buy more weapon from it.

The US, as we knows from the Scaraborough incident with the Philipine wont be doing anything and besides this is a conflict between two communist brothers.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ViXuyen

The harsh reality is that there is no oil in the Paracel Islands. If there is, the Chinese would have drilled it along time ago since they have controlled the Islands for over 40 years now. The Spratly on the other hand is a different deal as there is a possibility of oil as it can be shown that Vietnam's major oil fields are very close to the Spratly islands. That is the reason why China wants to negotiate with Vietnam regarding the Spratly issue. Vietnam has made it clear that no negotiation is possible regarding the Spratly unless China returns about 12 Paracel islands that China robbed Vietnam at gunpoint in 1974.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## tbquestion

ViXuyen said:


> The harsh reality is that there is no oil in the Paracel Islands. If there is, the Chinese would have drilled it along time ago since they have controlled the Islands for over 40 years now. The Spratly on the other hand is a different deal as there is a possibility of oil as it can be shown that Vietnam's major oil fields are very close to the Spratly islands. That is the reason why China wants to negotiate with Vietnam regarding the Spratly issue. Vietnam has made it clear that no negotiation is possible regarding the Spratly unless China returns about 12 Paracel islands that China robbed Vietnam at gunpoint in 1974.


I am talking about gas deposits as Exxon Mobil discovered them near where the rig is now. What happen to the joint Vietnam-Exxon Mobil effort to develop that gas field. According to some sources, Beijing talked Exxon into walking away from the deal.


----------



## cirr

New force in the SCS：







“Xinshijian” Ocean Survey Ship formally inducted on 28.05.2014

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## EastSea

*Obama warns against tensions in East Sea*
_US President Barack Obama on May 28 expressed concern about increased tensions in the East Sea and said the US supports ASEAN in formulating a code of conduct (COC) with China to settle maritime disputes in the sea._






Addressing US military cadets at West Point, Obama warned global crisis could threaten US allies if they are not resolved completely, and they could force US military to intervene.

“Regional aggression that goes unchecked – in southern Ukraine, the South China Sea [East Sea], or anywhere else in the world – will ultimately impact our allies, and could draw in our military. We can’t ignore what happens beyond our boundaries," Obama said.

“In the Asia Pacific, we’re supporting Southeast Asian nations as they negotiate a code of conduct with China on maritime disputes in the South China Sea, and we’re working to resolve these disputes through international law.”

Tension has mounted in the East Sea after China positioned its drilling rig Haiyang Shiyou-981 deep inside Vietnam’s exclusive economic zone and continental shelf on May 1.

Chinese vessels, including military ships, that were deployed to escort the rig, have constantly rammed civil Vietnamese boats, injuring sailors and damaging their property.

_VOV/VNN_

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Viet

*President Barack Obama warned that the US was ready to respond to China's "aggression" toward its neighbours at sea, but said Washington should lead by example by ratifying a key treaty.*

PHOTOS





_WEST POINT, United States: President Barack Obama warned on Wednesday that the United States was ready to respond to China's "aggression" toward its neighbours at sea, but said Washington should lead by example by ratifying a key treaty._

In a wide-ranging speech on foreign policy to US military cadets at West Point, Obama said that the United States should shun isolationism and that its military must be prepared for crises.

"Regional aggression that goes unchecked - whether it's southern Ukraine, or the South China Sea, or anywhere else in the world - will ultimately impact our allies, and could draw in our military," Obama said.

But Obama emphasised caution on any decision to use force and said: "American influence is always stronger when we lead by example."

"We can't try to resolve the problems in the South China Sea when we have refused to make sure that the Law of the Sea Convention is ratified by the United States - despite the fact that our top military leaders say that the treaty advances our national security," Obama said, not naming China directly as he diverted from his prepared text.

"That's not leadership; that's retreat. That's not strength; that's weakness," Obama said.

Senators of the rival Republican Party have refused to ratify the treaty, saying that the United Nations (UN) convention would override US sovereignty.

Tensions have been rising for months between *China *and its neighbours at sea, with *Vietnam *on Tuesday accusing Beijing of ramming and sinking one of its fishing boats in the South China Sea.

*Japan *and the *Philippines *also have tense disputes at sea with China. Japanese commentators have voiced concern that the US failure to prevent Russia from annexing Ukraine's Crimea peninsula in March sent the wrong signal to China.

In another reference to policy toward Asia, Obama again cited the democratic reforms in *Myanmar *as a success story.

The administration upon entering office in 2009 opened a dialogue with the then military-ruled nation earlier known as Burma, whose relations have improved with the United States have improved dramatically.

"Progress there could be reversed. But if Burma succeeds, we will have gained a new partner without having fired a shot," Obama said.

Myanmar has freed political prisoners, eased censorship and welcomed foreign investors, but human rights groups have voiced alarm over violence against the Rohingya minority.

- AFP/rw/fl

Obama warns against "aggression" in South China Sea - Channel NewsAsia

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Jf Thunder

all they can do is warn, LOL

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Viet

America should prepare a plan of imposing economics sanction on China. Once TPP is in place, China is no longer needed. Let them trade with N Korea or Pakistan 

Why not turn China back to an agrarian state as we had seen a generation ago?

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Raphael

Well at least he pointed out the hypocrisy of screeching about international law when his country hasn't even signed UNCLOS yet. That's a big improvement.

In time, he may improve so much that he will stop enabling and instigating banana harvesters from claiming territory that doesn't belong to them.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Pangu

Enjoy getting screwed by the TPP, we'll do trade with the smart ones. 

*Series: Dan Gillmor column*
Previous | Next | Index
* 

 *
*Thanks to WikiLeaks, we see just how bad TPP trade deal is for regular people*
The more you know about the odious Trans-Pacific Partnership, the less you'll like it. It's made for corporate intellectual property and profits









A protester demonstrates against the proposed Stop Online Piracy Act (Sopa) in New York. It might be time to do the same against the Trans-Pacific Partnership. Photograph: Mario Tama/Getty Images
Among the many betrayals of the Obama administration is its overall treatment of what many people refer to as "intellectual property" – the idea that ideas themselves and digital goods and services are exactly like physical property, and that therefore the law should treat them the same way. This corporatist stance defies both reality and the American Constitution, which expressly called for creators to have rights for limited periods, the goal of which was to promote inventive progress and the arts.

In the years 2007 and 2008, candidate Obama indicated that he'd take a more nuanced view than the absolutist one from Hollywood and other interests that work relentlessly for total control over this increasingly vital part of our economy and lives. But no clearer demonstration of the real White House view is offered than a just-leaked draft of an international treaty that would, as many had feared, create draconian new rights for corporate "owners" and mean vastly fewer rights for the rest of us.

I'm talking about the appalling Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement, a partial draft of which WikiLeaks has just released. This treaty has been negotiated in secret meetings dominated by governments and corporations. You and I have been systematically excluded, and once you learn what they're doing, you can see why.

The outsiders who understand TPP best aren't surprised. That is, the draft "confirms fears that the negotiating parties are prepared to expand the reach of intellectual property rights, and shrink consumer rights and safeguards," writes James Love a longtime watcher of this process.

Needless to say, copyright is a key part of this draft. And the negotiators would further stiffen copyright holders' control while upping the ante on civil and criminal penalties for infringers. The Electronic Frontier Foundation says TPP has "extensive negative ramifications for users' freedom of speech, right to privacy and due process, and hinder peoples' abilities to innovate". It's Hollywood's wish list.

Canadian intellectual property expert Michael Geist examined the latest draft of the intellectual property chapter. He writes that the document, which includes various nations' proposals, shows the US government, in particular, taking a vastly different stance than the other nations. Geist notes:

[Other nations have argued for] balance, promotion of the public domain, protection of public health, and measures to ensure that IP rights themselves do not become barriers to trade. The opposition to these objective by the US and Japan (Australia has not taken a position) speaks volumes about their goals for the TPP.

The medical industry has a stake in the outcome, too, with credible critics saying it would raise drug prices and, according to Love's analysis, give surgeons patent protection for their procedures.

Congress has shown little appetite for restraining the overweening power of the corporate interests promoting this expansion. With few exceptions, lawmakers have repeatedly given copyright, patent and trademark interests more control over the years. So we shouldn't be too optimistic about the mini-flurry of Capitol Hill opposition to the treaty that emerged this week. It's based much more on Congress protecting its prerogatives – worries about the treaty's so-called "fast track" authorities, giving the president power to act without congressional approval – than on substantive objections to the document's contents.

That said, some members of Congress have become more aware of the deeper issues. The public revolt against the repugnant "Stop Online Piracy Act" two years ago was a taste of what happens when people become more widely aware of what they can lose when governments and corporate interests collude.

If they become aware – that's the key. One of TPP's most abhorrent elements has been the secrecy under which it's been negotiated. The Obama administration's fondness for secret laws, policies and methods has a lot to do with a basic reality: the public would say no to much of which is done in our names and with our money if we knew what was going on. As Senator Elizabeth Warren pointed out, in a letter to the White House:

I have heard the argument that transparency would undermine the administration's policy to complete the trade agreement because public opposition would be significant. If transparency would lead to widespread public opposition to a trade agreement, then that trade agreement should not be the policy of the United States. I believe in transparency and democracy and I think the US Trade Representative should too.

Thanks to WikiLeaks, we have at least partial transparency today. The more you know about the odious TPP, the less you'll like it – and that's why the administration and its corporate allies don't want you to know.

Thanks to WikiLeaks, we see just how bad TPP trade deal is for regular people | Dan Gillmor | Comment is free | theguardian.com​

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

Viet said:


> America should prepare a plan of imposing economics sanction on China. Once TPP is in place, China is no longer needed. Let them trade with *N Korea or Pakistan*
> 
> Why not turn China back to an agrarian state as we had seen a generation ago?



No, Kim Jong Un has purged pro-china group. Now only Pakistan.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

Barack Obama is too soft. It is his weakness that encourages Chinese aggression.
the regions from Japan to Philippines to Vietnam are slowing turning into battlefields. 

I believe the solution lies in Japan. it must shoulder more responsibilities.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Edison Chen

Obama gave Vietnam another delusion. If the US could intervene by force, why do they waste time by talking, by WARN?

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Viet

Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> No, Kim Jong Un has purged pro-china group. Now only Pakistan.


yes, you are right. that is sad.
I wonder why Chinese as the all best weather friend does not protect them before the next US drone strike?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Edison Chen

Viet said:


> yes, you are. that is sad.



That is awesome. Why would we want to please a beggar which depends on our charity?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## sword1947

Viet said:


> Barack Obama is too soft. It is his weakness that encourages Chinese aggression.
> the regions from Japan to Philippines to Vietnam are slowing turning into battlefields.
> 
> I believe the solution lies in Japan. it must shoulder more responsibilities.


go and take his place in white house, smart viet

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## yusheng

Offer some details about China Vietnam SCS conflict for PDF friends

Recently, there is a way of saying that the area which 981 working now is the area where Vietnam and Mobil has explored for years and after the exploring Mobil handed the most important data to China, that is why now 981 began to explore in that area. Then Vietnam has no power to resist except raising riot and the result is out of anticipation which the opposite part in Vietnam applied it to undermine VCP. 

One can see on the map that the 981 is very near the position where Vietnam and Mobil once worked together when Vietnam considered that China would do nothing if cooperating with US, but this thinking is very simple and naïve. It is doomed from the beginning, compared with Vietnam, Mobil has much more business in China and no doubt Mobil will choose China as his associator. 

On 2008 Vietnam and Mobil explored the area and China issued a stern warning, but the exploring did not stop. And the strange thing is that during the same time the cooperation between China and Mobil deepened. In 2013 when deputy general manager of Mobil, also general manger in China of Mobil Mark W. Albers met the president of CNPC ,China National Petroleum Corporation, Zhou Jiping, saying “during the last 5 years, Mobil and CNPC expanded well cooperation in many ways”. How could Mobil make China not worry about his working with Vietnam on SCS, otherwise China would not give so many chances to Mobil doing business in China, what is Mobil promised? 

In fact, Mobil declared oil reserve on SCS in 2011 and then no further exploitation due to one, long time of negotiation and two, risk consideration, Mobil certainly understands clearly that it is very hard to collect oil there without Chinese permission, and it is very possible that Mobil sold Vietnam and gave the data to China for exchange, so it is explainable Mobil expanded his business in China while still exploring with Vietnam. And as reported 2013, China and Mobil cooperate on Iraq huge oil field; such international strategic cooperation indicates there was undercover dealing.

The latest news is that one Vietnam fish boat sank, also reported half Vietnam ship were damaged by Chinese attack, showing that Vietnam is too weak again China, and China pressed much more without fearing escalation. That leads the internal divergence in Vietnam. Asking for help from Philippines and Japan can not change SCS situation since Vietnam got only oral assistances. same from the USA's mouth. Then how long can southern part (mostly Vietnam PM) can persist? If don’t stop in time and begin to turn to west, then Chinese backfire would fierce ….. If rational part of Vietnam wins, power of Vietnam PM may limited or even quit. 


Vietnam pm went out for outside help when he can not get enough assistance from inside, he may upgrade the situation for his last straw. Situation will worsen but not inevitable to war; However, if China reckons that Vietnam could not amend itself and China has to do something, then Vietnam will suffer.

The game between China and Vietnam shows that small country should not play hand wresting with big country if there is conflict for radical interest. Take the Mobil for example, international group only seeks money and will not offend China for small benefits. Vietnam’s plan failed from the start.



BTW, on 26 May, “zhong ren 1601” left xiao zhou shipment base with loading of 33 pre –construction articles, one of sink box is 27meter long, 20meter wide, 11 high, 4000 ton. Means China is going to constructer huge base in SCS. 
Huge sink box is only for huge dock or under earth hangar.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Viet

sword1947 said:


> go and take his place in white house, smart viet


well, US senator Benjamin Cardin is visting Vietnam right now. he is also the Chairman of the East Asian and Pacific Affairs. He supports Vietnam and sharply critizes China. as the talk is secret, nobody knows details.

Perhaps we will see more US warships soon in the East Vietnam Sea 









Raphael said:


> In time, he may improve so much that he will stop enabling and instigating banana harvesters from claiming territory that doesn't belong to them.




No country in the world recognises your fcking claims. Neither possession of Paracels nor Spratlys that you took from us by force. China will never get international recognition of your occupation without Vietnam consent.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

Viet said:


> yes, you are right. that is sad.
> I wonder why Chinese as the *all best weather* friend does not protect them before the next US drone strike?



All weather except it rains, I guess.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Jlaw

Viet said:


> well, US senator Benjamin Cardin is visting Vietnam right now. he is also the Chairman of the East Asian and Pacific Affairs. He supports Vietnam and sharply critizes China. as the talk is secret, nobody knows details.
> 
> Perhaps we will see more US warships soon in the East Vietnam Sea
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No country in the world recognises your fcking claims. Neither possession of Paracels nor Spratlys that you took from us by force. China will never get international recognition of your occupation without Vietnam consent.


 
Vietnamese way of thinking is very confusing on PDF. Why do Vietnamese sing in joy when a senator visit Vietnam?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

Viet said:


> well, US senator Benjamin Cardin is visting Vietnam right now. he is also the Chairman of the East Asian and Pacific Affairs. He supports Vietnam and sharply critizes China. as the talk is secret, nobody knows details.
> 
> Perhaps we will see more US warships soon in the East Vietnam Sea
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No country in the world recognises your fcking claims. Neither possession of Paracels nor Spratlys that you took from us by force. China will never get international recognition of your occupation without Vietnam consent.




*U.S. Senator says it’s unacceptable to ram, sink Vietnamese fishing boat*

The incident in which a Chinese vessel rammed and sank a Vietnamese fishing boat on Monday is obviously unacceptable and at high risk of not only loss of property but loss of life, U.S. Senator Benjamin Cardin told reporters at a press conference in Hanoi on Wednesday. 

Benjamin Cardin is now head of U.S. Senate Foreign Relations Subcommittee on East Asian and Pacific Affairs.

The United States opposes the unilateral provocative action undertaken by China in the East Sea. Our policies concerning maritime security are well known, in that we believe they must be peacefully resolved. We expect the countries to refrain from provocative action. We would hope that they would deescalate and use international forums, such as that provided under the Conventional Law of the Sea, to support ASEAN’s efforts to have a Code of Conduct, and to do direct diplomacy rather than trying to take provocative action. So this unilateral provocative action by China has created a very high tense circumstance in which we are very concerned. It affects more than the security of Vietnam, but it affects the regional maritime issues which are of interest to the United States and the global community.

U.S. Senator says it’s unacceptable to ram, sink Vietnamese fishing boat

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## pigtaker

Viet said:


> America should prepare a plan of imposing economics sanction on China. Once TPP is in place, China is no longer needed. Let them trade with N Korea or Pakistan
> 
> Why not turn China back to an agrarian state as we had seen a generation ago?


Haha, couldn't you be more serious on this, viets, asking world No2 trading country to sanction No1, where did you learn the math?.

For your information, we just sanction US by stopping using IBM and Cisco products in our banking system, which is a $120billion market by the way. we also cut off america's consulting business with our state-owned company. all of those are reported by Reuters.

Believe me, sanctionning China is far more difficult a task for US than sending all its carrier groups to protect you. So you should work very ,very hard to lick US ***, making them satisfied to send the carriers, this is a more practical dream for you.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## DragonEmpire

After agent orange spraying, Viets can only beg and lick. Laos and Cambodia laugh hard.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

Jlaw said:


> Vietnamese way of thinking is very confusing on PDF. Why do Vietnamese sing in joy when a senator visit Vietnam?


you don´t get it.

we are crying loud to get help from uncle sam. they should lift weapons embargo as well as provide us with advanced weapons. until now, we only get $18m in form of patrol vessels

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Snomannen

US: "Blah blah blah blah..."
China: "Leh leh leh leh..."
ietnam: "Ha ha ha ha..."

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## pigtaker

Viet said:


> you don´t get it.
> 
> we are crying loud to get help from uncle sam. they should lift weapons embargo as well as provide us with advanced weapons. until now, we only get $18m in form of patrol vessels


Haha, I didn't know until today that you are under US' weapons embargo, yet you dream america coming to rescue you, Where did that optisim come from? you deserve to be brother of indian.

One free tip for you viets, no matter whatever US do, its only purpose is to harm China's interests rather than help you. They are more interesting in your colour revolution.Managing your expectation.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Hasbara Buster

Look at all the countries America has "helped", such as Iraq, Libya, Egypt, Syria, Palestine, Lebanon, Pakistan, Afghanistan. Are you sure you want their "help"?

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## vtnsx

Hasbara Buster said:


> Look at all the countries America has "helped", such as Iraq, Libya, Egypt, Syria, Palestine, Lebanon, Pakistan, Afghanistan. Are you sure you want their "help"?


As long as we can get the chinese out of our asses, then of course we need american help.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Mao1949

Keeping warning because the US can't do anything else. China will continue to drill wherever there is oil & gas. As if we give a flying toss about hot air warnings by the US. This is the same spineless leader that put red lines against Syria and when those lines were apparently crossed, had to back down.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## vtnsx

Mao1949 said:


> Keeping warning because the US can't do anything else. China will continue to drill wherever there is oil & gas. As if we give a flying toss about hot air warnings by the US. This is the same spineless leader that put red lines against Syria and when those lines were apparently crossed, had to back down.


Lol i guess u dont know the meaning of death and dispair yet. Keep talking like that and eventually you will get what u wish for.


----------



## StarCraft_ZT

vtnsx said:


> As long as we can get the chinese out of our asses, then of course we need american help.


 You don't need anyone's help, you only need self-esteem.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Rechoice

cnleio said:


> LOL, it's sure that American can help Vietnam by this way :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “Welcome to Vietnam, U.S ” It will be next Syria.



we are all Vietnamese, cold war is gone. Chinese has a illusion about CPC, there is included three parties of Vietnam: Labour, Democraty and socialist parties.

South Vietnamese nationalist can join in or create a new party, It is question of futuere.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## vtnsx

StarCraft_ZT said:


> You don't need anyone's help, you only need self-esteem.


It's called allies and friendship something you don't have.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NiceGuy

Vietnam's ambassador in US on spat with China on CNN.






Vietnamese Ambassador to the US, Nguyen Quoc Cuong was interviewed recently by CNN reporter Amanpour at CNN's headquarters in Washington on May 28.

The Ambassador affirmed that China's actions seriously violate Vietnam's sovereignty, international law, the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), and the 2002 Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the East Sea (DOC) when the country placed the Haiyang Shiyou-981 drilling rig and escort ships in Vietnam's waters.

He also stressed that China is creating new difficulties on the ground and trying to turn an undisputed area into a disputed area, which is unacceptable.

In regard to Vietnam's foreign policy, Mr Cuong said Vietnam pursues an independent foreign policy and hopes to maintain friendly relations with China, the US, and other countries but does not accept coercion or threats. He underscored Vietnamese people's determination to defend their sovereignty and territorial integrity. Furthermore, Vietnamese people around the world are well aware that nothing is more precious than independence and freedom.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## NiceGuy

> The game between China and Vietnam shows that small country should not play hand wresting with big country if there is conflict for radical interest. Take the Mobil for example, international group only seeks money and will not offend China for small benefits. Vietnam’s plan failed from the start.



China still a cheap chess, divided into two parts Mainland-TW while VN is united country after defeating mighty US

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## EastSea

cnleio said:


> LOL, it's sure that American can help Vietnam by this way :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “Welcome to Vietnam, U.S ” It will be next Syria.





like this.


----------



## NiceGuy

Good, More pressure to China, hope we will receive high tech lethal weapon from US soon

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## JSCh

Raphael said:


> Well at least he pointed out the hypocrisy of screeching about international law when his country hasn't even signed UNCLOS yet. That's a big improvement.
> 
> In time, he may improve so much that he will stop enabling and instigating banana harvesters from claiming territory that doesn't belong to them.



Do not unto others what you don't like others do unto you. - Confucius(Golden Rule).

Do unto others what you don't like others do unto you. - American exceptionalism. 
(And this is the country that come preaching to China about universal value)

If after UNCLOS, US may "improve" by 
Force unto others what you like others do unto you?

How about China do the same and adopt a regime change policy on America?


----------



## Genesis

NiceGuy said:


> China still a cheap chess, divided into two parts Mainland-TW while VN is united country after defeating mighty US



let's say what you are saying is true, which it isn't, but let's say it is.

That generation of people is either dying or dead, so today it has no implication.


----------



## NiceGuy

JSCh said:


> Do not unto others what you don't like others do unto you. - Confucius(Golden Rule).
> 
> Do unto others what you don't like others do unto you. - American exceptionalism.
> (And this is the country that come preaching to China about universal value)
> 
> If after UNCLOS, US may "improve" by
> Force unto others what you like others do unto you?
> 
> How about China do the same and adopt a regime change policy on America?


China is just a chess divided into two part (Main Land-TW,) by US so, as a chess, u must follow the King's order

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

China has used the water cannon to damage the funnel and radar of the Vietnam ships.

Soon Vietnam will run out of boats.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## NiceGuy

Genesis said:


> let's say what you are saying is true, which it isn't, but let's say it is.
> 
> That generation of people is either dying or dead, so today it has no implication.


Feeling hard to accept the Truth that China is just a chess, divided into two parts by US ?? Okay, ur choice.

We dont take a stronger action to ur aggression just bcz the international rules r not allowed to do that. We will collect all evidences (China ships ram VN ship, Chinese coast guard beat up VN fishermen etc) to sue u first.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cheekybird

Jf Thunder said:


> all they can do is warn, LOL


This dog bites too

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TaiShang

NiceGuy said:


> China is just a chess divided ... by US the King...



A king always needs a clown to rest him assured that he is all dressed-up.

The reward for clown is a paper-bag full of popcorn !

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## NiceGuy

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> China has used the water cannon to damage the funnel and radar of the Vietnam ships.
> 
> Soon Vietnam will run out of boats.


And its against the international rules, so, spraying water to VN ship will be the good evidence to sue China in international court 



TaiShang said:


> A king always needs a clown to rest him assured that he is all dressed-up.
> 
> The reward for clown is a paper-bag full of popcorn !


Yeah, Taiwan is clown to entertain Mr. Obama, and dont forget that ur duty is watching China mainland carefully for US

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cnleio

Rechoice said:


> we are all Vietnamese, cold war is gone. Chinese has a illusion about CPC, there is included three parties of Vietnam: Labour, Democraty and socialist parties.
> 
> South Vietnamese nationalist can join in or create a new party, It is question of futuere.


What a simple & naive idea !

If most Vietnamese have the same idea as u, i can feel relax to Vietnam politics. Good idea to import South Vietnam Party return Vietnam from America, no doubt Chaos will show on Vietnam street from the South spread to the North. I strongly believe today Vietnam has the potential of Street Color Revolution.



EastSea said:


> like this.


What's wong ? There'r anti-VCP groups in U.S and many Vietnam freedom fighters. so if ur Vientamese dislike VCP more than China, just welcome American help, it will be more interesting situation to VCP in the future.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Kyle Sun

Viet said:


> America should prepare a plan of imposing economics sanction on China. Once TPP is in place, China is no longer needed. Let them trade with N Korea or Pakistan
> 
> Why not turn China back to an agrarian state as we had seen a generation ago?


China is the second economy now ,perhaps No1 in short time.

And you think TTP can replace our position ?

TTP indeed is good for Viet in your words , but all TTP memebers' economy added together is far away from China except USA.

I do not know why you are so confident about we are going to be marginalized or replaced.

And US never forget to turn China back to agrarian state ,but they are just wishing , they do not have such ability now.

BTW, Viet never picks off the hat of "agrarian state", Viet is a behindhand agrarian state for thousands years which lag behind the other agricultural countries.

And You still wear this hat until now. Now the top1 priority for Viet is improving your agricultural machinery .

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Kyle Sun

NiceGuy said:


> China still a cheap chess, divided into two parts Mainland-TW while VN is united country after defeating mighty US


Then stop yelling we rob your island, warrior !


----------



## NiceGuy

Kyle Sun said:


> Then stop yelling we rob your island, warrior !


Why should we stop it when it help VN to gain more support and minimum the damage ?? China even begged for JP support against VN in 1978.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## NiceGuy

rcrmj said:


> dont get those monkeys mentality``
> first the U.S treated them as some sort of low-life beings, killing, bulling, slaughtering and raping them as they wish````and now those viet monkeys are kissing U.S arse so hard as if a well treated dog finds his loving master````
> 
> but in reality, to average american's perception, vietnam and viets are no more than a dirty dictator country and bride outlets for standard nerds in western countries


JP treat China even worse than cockroaches but China still came and kiss JP so hard in 1978

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Kyle Sun

NiceGuy said:


> Why should we stop it when it help VN to gain more support and minimum the damage ?? China even begged for JP support against VN in 1978.


Because you Viet are so powerful , you can defeat mighty US, so weak CN is just a piece of cake. 

We rob your island ? Damn , We are not out of our minds to rob The Third Military of Earth , you are so strong . 

Keeping our own islands is enough for us .


----------



## TaiShang

NiceGuy said:


> JP treat China even worse than cockroaches but China still came and kiss JP so hard in 1978



One way or another, China and Japan have to figure out to coexist and prosper together. We live face to face as neighbors for thousands of years; none of us ain't going nowhere anytime soon. 

No hard feeling in the end between distant relatives so long as past wounds are healed and bridges are built. 

But your only relationship with the US is one of a rapist and the victim. 

And victim suddenly falls in love with her rapist. That's creepy.

Do not try really, most of us will not feel hurt because we are on good terms with Japan today and our trade volume is the largest in the region by country. 

Your effort to wedge discord between two neighbors is a vein effort.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## UFO77

Vietnam on a tightrope, do not think that which country willgive you support. 1979 you have the support of the Soviet Union, or lost the war? Both sides to sit down and talk, can be resolved through consultation, or you'll be a repeat of the past!


----------



## NiceGuy

TaiShang said:


> One way or another, China and Japan have to figure out to coexist and prosper together. We live face to face as neighbors for thousands of years; none of us ain't going nowhere anytime soon.
> 
> No hard feeling in the end between distant relatives so long as past wounds are healed and bridges are built.
> 
> But your only relationship with the US is one of a rapist and the victim.
> 
> And victim suddenly falls in love with her rapist. That's creepy.
> 
> Do not try really, most of us will not feel hurt because we are on good terms with Japan today and our trade volume is the largest in the region by country.
> 
> Your effort to wedge discord between two neighbors is a vein effort.


Ah,u mean : when Big China kiss JP so hard even JP treat China worse than cockroaches, then, its OK. But when small VN asking US for support, then it is so embarrassed and VN will be the 'victim of the rapist' . U know, ur thinking exactly like Ah Q's spirit.
Im sorry, but infact JP raped and killed Chinese far more than US rape dVNese. At least US troop still save some VN kids when JP willing to kill and rape all Chinese mercilessly.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NiceGuy

Kyle Sun said:


> Because you Viet are so powerful , you can defeat mighty US, so weak CN is just a piece of cake.
> 
> We rob your island ? Damn , We are not out of our minds to rob The Third Military of Earth , you are so strong .
> 
> Keeping our own islands is enough for us .


Yeah, we r strong enough to protect our country from terrorism when China is in serious chaos with car bombing, knife stabbing day by day , its corrupted Gov.t is so weak to protect its own people.

We will just sit and watch China collapse in fear of terrorist and due to bad economy too.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Kyle Sun

NiceGuy said:


> Yeah, we r strong enough to protect our country from terrorism when China is in serious chaos with car bombing, knife stabbing day by day , its corrupted Gov.t is so weak to protect its own people.
> 
> We will just sit and watch China collapse in fear of terrorist and due to bad economy too.


I am glad to say that .

You guys just watch our rig drilling and wait for our collapse. 

So , ask your gov stop harassing our rig , those Viet ships are boring like flies.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NiceGuy

Kyle Sun said:


> I am glad to say that .
> 
> You guys just watch our rig drilling and wait for our collapse.
> 
> So , ask your gov stop harassing our rig , those Viet ships are boring like flies.


U violate our water, violate the international rules, of course we will have to react, and it will make China fall faster coz u will have to waste lots of money in the conflict. More car blash, knife stabbing will happen in China coz ur Gov.t dont have enough money to hire more cops to protect u guys

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Kyle Sun

NiceGuy said:


> U violate our water, violate the international rules, of course we will have to react, and it will make China fall faster coz u will have to waste lots of money in the conflict. More car blash, knife stabbing will happen in China coz ur Gov.t dont have enough money to hire more cops to protect u guys


hum...

You can wait until we run out of money .

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## NiceGuy

tbquestion said:


> International experts are now saying that China is most likely to find gas deposit in the SCS, given that her rig is close by the area where Exon discovered gas deposit in 2011 & 2012.
> 
> At that point war b/t China and Vietnam is unavoidable b/c Vietnam will never let China pump the gas out in peace. Right now China is baiting Vietnam into a war b/c she knows that in a few years Vietnam will be too hot to handle. At the moment Vietnam is trying to avoid military confrontation to save her naval assets for the future.
> 
> Eventually, Vietnam knows she will have to engage China military because she knows that a bully is never satisfied until he has taken everything from you.
> 
> One of the mystery in all this is India position on the SCS matter. Does she wants China to significantly destroy one of her friends in the region?
> We all know Russia doestnt care as it knows a bruised Vietnam will buy more weapon from it.
> 
> The US, as we knows from the Scaraborough incident with the Philipine wont be doing anything and besides this is a conflict between two communist brothers.


Infact, we dont try to avoid war with China again. We just simply follow the international rules first. we also hope the World know who is right, who is breaking the international rules in this conflict and oppost China with us. We wont fight if China dont fire the first shot.

We have enough anti-ship missile to sink all China warship if war happen.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Beast

NiceGuy said:


> Feeling hard to accept the Truth that China is just a chess, divided into two parts by US ?? Okay, ur choice.
> 
> We dont take a stronger action to ur aggression just bcz the international rules r not allowed to do that. We will collect all evidences (China ships ram VN ship, Chinese coast guard beat up VN fishermen etc) to sue u first.


 A very bad self consolation from vietnamese troll

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## heavilyarmedpotato

NiceGuy said:


> U violate our water, violate the international rules, of course we will have to react, and it will make China fall faster coz u will have to waste lots of money in the conflict. More car blash, knife stabbing will happen in China coz ur Gov.t dont have enough money to hire more cops to protect u guys


lets face the fact VN cant withstand a full invasion by china


----------



## Jf Thunder

cheekybird said:


> This dog bites too


no, it does not...........


----------



## xunzi

The Vietnamese are stupid. Don't listen to whatever they say. They had been using 3rd party to drill in dispute water but nobody says anything. When we do, it becomes a problem? His hypocritical response is unacceptable. It is little bully syndrome.


----------



## Rechoice

xunzi said:


> The Vietnamese are stupid. Don't listen to whatever they say. They had been using 3rd party to drill in dispute water but nobody says anything. When we do, it becomes a problem? His hypocritical response is unacceptable. It is little bully syndrome.



You can not drill in our EEZ.



heavilyarmedpotato said:


> lets face the fact VN cant withstand a full invasion by china




lets face the fact PAK cant withstand a full invasion by India.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## xunzi

Rechoice said:


> You can not drill in our EEZ.


We drill in our administer territory.


----------



## xunzi

Rechoice said:


> ocoupation with force is not legal for administration. It is worldwide acepted rule of international law. Its bad for China when you did it.
> 
> Very sad when China is rising, he is going to be new hooligan in region. It is the fore-predicted signal that USA will coming to rule the region.


What you called occupation is what we call defending our territorial right. The area was never belong to you. No one in the world recognize it belong to you. None. Absolute zero!

We are a peaceful country. But don't mistake this peaceful country will sit back and watch others intruding our national interest without fighting back. We are not the early 20th century China in the mid of chaotic environment that get bullied by others and sit back to let others dictated unequal term with us. We won't let that happen again, not today and not in the future.


----------



## terranMarine

Don't know why these macacas are so blind and couldn't see Japan isn't willing to treat China as an enemy and drop all the economic ties with us in favor of this backward jungle. It's an illusion to these dreamers that the jungle could form a dream team with Japan, US, South Korea, Russia, Pinoys to contain us. It's even hilarious that some of them even think North Korea is anti China now with the purge of some pro China leaders. But keep on the sweet dream because it ain't gonna come true anyway.


----------



## sword1947

Viet said:


> well, US senator Benjamin Cardin is visting Vietnam right now. he is also the Chairman of the East Asian and Pacific Affairs. He supports Vietnam and sharply critizes China. as the talk is secret, nobody knows details.
> 
> Perhaps we will see more US warships soon in the East Vietnam Sea
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No country in the world recognises your fcking claims. Neither possession of Paracels nor Spratlys that you took from us by force. China will never get international recognition of your occupation without Vietnam consent.


We do not need your "perhaps". Please, just please bring them to the scs right now, we can wait to meet them here.


----------



## sword1947

Rechoice said:


> You can not drill in our EEZ.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lets face the fact PAK cant withstand a full invasion by India.


Come and stop us, if you are a real man.


----------



## DT1010

sword1947 said:


> Come and stop us, if you are a real man.


if you tried to make a war, yes, you was a man but a stupid man

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

*A dangerous dance: China, Vietnam posture in the South China Sea*
By Euan McKirdy, CNN
May 28, 2014 -- Updated 1422 GMT






Vietnamese Coast Guard 8003, South China Sea (CNN)
It takes a long time to get to the middle of nowhere. For a contingent of almost 40 reporters, hours of waiting both on land and then at sea preceded a trip to one of the world's most hotly contested areas of maritime real estate.
The Vietnamese government had been at pains to keep this media trip under wraps, keeping print, online and broadcast journalists from Asia and the United States guessing as to the day and time of departure.
That secrecy may have been for naught: at a pre-departure briefing we are told that while the Vietnamese Ministry of Foreign Affairs has not formally informed its Chinese counterpart of the presence of journalists in the area, a Coast Guard official mentions that "chances are" China knows about it.
But depart we do, boarding a small coastguard support vessel Monday evening as the sun dies over Da Nang, bound for the disputed waters surrounding the South China Sea's Paracel Islands, known to China as the Xisha Islands.
China's controversial installation of an oil-rig in these waters at the beginning of May sparked protests -- some of which turned violent -- in Vietnam and statements from a variety of world leaders, urging the two sides to resolve this dispute quickly and without bloodshed.

One side, at least, appears to be in agreement. "The Vietnamese Coast Guard are committed to resolving the situation peacefully," says Hoang Tuan Anh, the captain of the supply ship upon which we hitch a ride.
Anti-China riots in Vietnam China evacuates citizens from Vietnam
Strictly utilitarian, our sturdy ride boasts one 125mm cannon on its prow and two 14.5mm guns aft. It is the kind of supply ship that every coast guard needs, and also houses a huge number of plastic 10-gallon jugs of drinking water, a galley piled with vegetables, and a bevy of live chickens under one of the exterior staircases -- supplies badly needed by their crew mates and friends on the front line.
As the sun rises again the next morning, we're still chugging steadily toward our destination, claimed by both China and Vietnam.

Clear message
A mid-sea ship change to CG 8003 -- and slightly less cramped conditions -- awaits us as noon approaches. By then we have reached the area where China had, earlier in the month, unilaterally planted a flag on this area of supposedly oil rich sea. The flag, in this case, was an imposing oil-rig that sent a clear message: the Xisha Islands are ours to do with what we will.

No buoys mark the territory, and there is no landfall in sight: just a shimmering expanse of deep water, albeit one with the promise of fossil fuel riches beneath.
As we arrive news comes that the rig -- run by state-owned oil company the China National Offshore Oil Corporation's (CNOOC) -- has been moved: no small task for something as big and unwieldy -- yet politically volatile.
The operation to move the structure began on Monday morning and was completed by 10.30 p.m. local time, just hours after our voyage began but, equally, hours before we arrived in the zone.
It is the first time that a boat has been sunk in this chapter of the often-acrimonious relationship between these two ideologically similar neighbors.
Approaching the area, dots on the horizon become ships, which then become a flotilla -- or perhaps more accurately two separate flotilla -- of both Chinese and Vietnamese commercial and coast guard vessels.
This mishmash of fishing and military vessels is all that remains of the flashpoint of a couple of weeks ago, and in a seemingly stage-crafted set of maneuvers dance around this expanse of utterly blue, clear sea.
Aggressive foghorns
It's a lively affair, alternating between angry, static-y rhetoric that informs the Chinese that they are in violation of international law, and aggressive foghorns and sirens, raising a cacophony on this otherwise peaceful, sunny afternoon.
"I've traveled out to these waters many times but recently the Chinese have been more aggressive towards the Vietnamese," says Hoang, captain of the support vessel. "I'm proud to protect Vietnam."
The dance is supervised by the respective country's coast guard vessels, who hopefully have too much sense to engage directly with each other. But hanging over the day's events is the knowledge that just hours before, a Chinese fishing vessel had rammed and sunk one of its Vietnamese counterparts.

No lives were lost in this incident but it is the first time that a boat has been sunk in this chapter of the often-acrimonious relationship between these two ideologically similar neighbors.
As the afternoon begins to wrap up, one of the larger Chinese coast-guard vessel homes in on our ship, horn blasting incoherently as it attempts a little maritime brinksmanship.
*Nobody on board CG 8003 seems to be overly worried, although life jackets are donned as a fillip. Like a dog reaching the end of its chain, the Chinese vessel barks at us a few remaining times, before turning heel.*
Off the starboard bow, two other Chinese vessels harry a smaller Vietnamese fishing boat, pushing it further from the center of this disagreement which, if left untended, could have dramatic consequences for these two countries, key players in a region that is -- perhaps belatedly -- starting to buck under the weight of Chinese hegemony.

A dangerous dance: China, Vietnam posture in the South China Sea - CNN.com

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## sword1947

DT1010 said:


> if you tried to make a war, yes, you was a man but a stupid man


Oh, a word giant and action pygmy. If you can't, save your word, smart animal


----------



## Jlaw

A dangerous dance for our Vietnamese friends indeed. Foolishness and bravery is a fine line. A sick wolf angering a dragon is foolish at best.


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

An image taken from a Vietnamese Coast Guard vessel shows a Chinese Coast Guard ship firing a water cannon at a Vietnamese fisheries research ship in disputed waters in the South China Sea on May 28.






A Chinese Coast Guard ship screens a controversial oil platform drilling off the disputed Paracel Islands on May 28.





A China Coast Guard ship (left) follows a Vietnamese Coast Guard vessel (right) near the site of the oil rig on May 14.





A Chinese Coast Guard vessel (left) appears to block a Vietnamese ship (right) near the area of China's oil drilling rig in disputed waters in the South China Sea on May 14.

source: CNN

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Jlaw

Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> An image taken from a Vietnamese Coast Guard vessel shows a Chinese Coast Guard ship firing a water cannon at a Vietnamese fisheries research ship in disputed waters in the South China Sea on May 28.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Chinese Coast Guard ship screens a controversial oil platform drilling off the disputed Paracel Islands on May 28.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A China Coast Guard ship (left) follows a Vietnamese Coast Guard vessel (right) near the site of the oil rig on May 14.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Chinese Coast Guard vessel (left) appears to block a Vietnamese ship (right) near the area of China's oil drilling rig in disputed waters in the South China Sea on May 14.
> 
> source: CNN



The Chinese coast guard is preventing small Vietnamese ships in the drilling area for the safety of the Vietnamese. A small boat hitting a giant oil rig will sink the Vietnamese boat. 
The Vietnamese side did not heed the warning. The Chinese had no choice but to fire the water cannon to warn the Vietnamese.


----------



## Rechoice

sword1947 said:


> Oh, a word giant and action pygmy. If you can't, save your word, smart animal



we're living nearby big animal. Its problem for Vietnam.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## sword1947

Rechoice said:


> we're living nearby big animal. Its problem for Vietnam.


So, what can you do, trouble maker? Keyboard can't save your country. Can't wait to see your next action


----------



## Rechoice

sword1947 said:


> We do not need your "perhaps". Please, just please bring them to the scs right now, we can wait to meet them here.



then don't run back like kids.


----------



## Rechoice

sword1947 said:


> So, what can you do, trouble maker? Keyboard can't save your country. Can't wait to see your next action



The game made by hooligan with Ah Q' dream is just beginning. you have to wait and see.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## sword1947

Rechoice said:


> then don't run back like kids.


Our rig and coastguard are still there. where are you and where is your US fleet? Why I can't see you and your friends? Go home and bring you US adult here right now, baby.


----------



## Rechoice

sword1947 said:


> Our rig and coastguard are still there. where are you and where is your US fleet? Why I can't see you and your friends? Go home and bring you US adult here right now, baby.



and our serveilance ships are still there.

US navy is waiting now, let Asian brothers destroyed mutual badly, then 7th fleet will come there SCS in time and USA could make an announce that there is a USA victory.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## KAL-EL

Rechoice said:


> and our serveilance ships are still there.
> 
> US navy is waiting now, let Asian brothers destroyed mutual badly, then 7th fleet will come there SCS in time and USA could make an announce that there is a USA victory.



My Vietnamese friend.. I find your enthusiasm and imagination quite fascinating

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Rechoice

KAL-EL said:


> My Vietnamese friend.. I find your enthusiasm and imagination quite fascinating



is your ID true, US citizen from US. ?

I think chinese trapped by themselves.

Its reported in media Vietnam that chinese general told to US general that China and US could divide Pacific ocean, but US denied such stupid proposal.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## IbnTaymiyyah

Lets hope China "warns" them to back the **** off and to keep there nose out.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Mao1949

revolutionary mujahid said:


> Lets hope China "warns" them to back the **** off and to keep there nose out.



The US can continue their hot air warnings as much as they want. China will continue to drill in the SCS. If the US wants to stop us drilling, then they are most welcome to try and stop it.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## KAL-EL

Rechoice said:


> is your ID true, US citizen from US. ?
> 
> I think chinese trapped by themselves.
> 
> Its reported in media Vietnam that chinese general told to US general that China and US could divide Pacific ocean, but US denied such stupid proposal.




Yes, I'm a US citizen. As for that report you mentioned, I would take it with a grain of salt.


----------



## EastSea

Mao1949 said:


> The US can continue their hot air warnings as much as they want. China will continue to drill in the SCS. If the US wants to stop us drilling, then they are most welcome to try and stop it.



china try steal oil from our EEZ, china is big thief.


----------



## TaiShang

Rechoice said:


> and our serveilance ships are still there.
> 
> US navy is waiting now, let Asian brothers destroyed mutual badly, then 7th fleet will come there SCS in time and USA could make an announce that there is a USA victory.




Do not you think at times that Obama is all talk but little work?

I mean, the whole US government seems recently a giant mouth, from top to the bottom. 

Obama has made so many promises recently. 

My guess is he has an aide to keep track of his promises. Who knows maybe he is making those promises off-teleprompter. 

You know how Obama sucks off-teleprompter.


----------



## ephone

I do have pity on him on such a role being u.s. president. 

so much more white hair and so many more groundless warnings.

sigh...

I am really sorry for him. 



Viet said:


> *President Barack Obama warned that the US was ready to respond to China's "aggression" toward its neighbours at sea, but said Washington should lead by example by ratifying a key treaty.*
> 
> PHOTOS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _WEST POINT, United States: President Barack Obama warned on Wednesday that the United States was ready to respond to China's "aggression" toward its neighbours at sea, but said Washington should lead by example by ratifying a key treaty._
> 
> In a wide-ranging speech on foreign policy to US military cadets at West Point, Obama said that the United States should shun isolationism and that its military must be prepared for crises.
> 
> "Regional aggression that goes unchecked - whether it's southern Ukraine, or the South China Sea, or anywhere else in the world - will ultimately impact our allies, and could draw in our military," Obama said.
> 
> But Obama emphasised caution on any decision to use force and said: "American influence is always stronger when we lead by example."
> 
> "We can't try to resolve the problems in the South China Sea when we have refused to make sure that the Law of the Sea Convention is ratified by the United States - despite the fact that our top military leaders say that the treaty advances our national security," Obama said, not naming China directly as he diverted from his prepared text.
> 
> "That's not leadership; that's retreat. That's not strength; that's weakness," Obama said.
> 
> Senators of the rival Republican Party have refused to ratify the treaty, saying that the United Nations (UN) convention would override US sovereignty.
> 
> Tensions have been rising for months between *China *and its neighbours at sea, with *Vietnam *on Tuesday accusing Beijing of ramming and sinking one of its fishing boats in the South China Sea.
> 
> *Japan *and the *Philippines *also have tense disputes at sea with China. Japanese commentators have voiced concern that the US failure to prevent Russia from annexing Ukraine's Crimea peninsula in March sent the wrong signal to China.
> 
> In another reference to policy toward Asia, Obama again cited the democratic reforms in *Myanmar *as a success story.
> 
> The administration upon entering office in 2009 opened a dialogue with the then military-ruled nation earlier known as Burma, whose relations have improved with the United States have improved dramatically.
> 
> "Progress there could be reversed. But if Burma succeeds, we will have gained a new partner without having fired a shot," Obama said.
> 
> Myanmar has freed political prisoners, eased censorship and welcomed foreign investors, but human rights groups have voiced alarm over violence against the Rohingya minority.
> 
> - AFP/rw/fl
> 
> Obama warns against "aggression" in South China Sea - Channel NewsAsia


----------



## TaiShang

EastSea said:


> china try steal oil from our EEZ, china is big thief.



China will sell the oil to you if you pay a fair price. 

Then you can taste it.


----------



## EastSea

TaiShang said:


> China will sell the oil to you if you pay a fair price.
> 
> Then you can taste it.



stupid troll. thief get lost.



TaiShang said:


> Do not you think at times that Obama is all talk but little work?
> 
> I mean, the whole US government seems recently a giant mouth, from top to the bottom.
> 
> Obama has made so many promises recently.
> 
> My guess is he has an aide to keep track of his promises. Who knows maybe he is making those promises off-teleprompter.
> 
> You know how Obama sucks off-teleprompter.



how could mr, Xi speak ? with promter or written paper ?


----------



## cirr

New "toy" launched 31.05.2014:






More to come.


----------



## vtnsx

The Chinese will never understand the meaning of a real war. After 25 years of brutality, deaths, perseverance, courage, sacrifices and everything to throw at it to win the war against US was a tough one but Vietnamese still did it and became who they are today. The Chinese think they can crush us small nation but we are more capable than and prepared to defend our motherland. What do we have that the Chinese don't have? Courage.

China as a country is not weak but the people are very weak minded. The Great Wall of China is a symbol of insecurity. Why would a country so big with so many people yet still get picked on by Japan, British, Mongolia (during Ghenghis Khan time) and many others. About a thousand years ago there were about 120 million Chinese and Ghenghis Khan wiped out half of that. Even today China is still insecure and only pick on smaller countries 10 times smaller than they are. Obviously, they cannot fight someone their own size or larger. 

Vietnam apart from China is completely different in mindset, we don't just don't give up that easily.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ViXuyen

Drill baby drill 

See blocks 133 & 134 in yellow? Those are the two blocks that the melanine drinkers pressured BP to pull out in 2009. Guess what? We've been drilling in those two blocks since 2012. 





Launch of the jacket

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NiceGuy

TaiShang said:


> Do not you think at times that Obama is all talk but little work?
> 
> I mean, the whole US government seems recently a giant mouth, from top to the bottom.
> 
> Obama has made so many promises recently.
> 
> My guess is he has an aide to keep track of his promises. Who knows maybe he is making those promises off-teleprompter.
> 
> You know how Obama sucks off-teleprompter.


China economy is falling, so mouth fight is enough to push China fall even faster

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

Updated : 5/31/2014 1:05:00 PM
Voice of Vietnam
(VOV) -Vietnam has asked the United Nations to take international jurisdiction over the East Sea territorial dispute and put an end to China’s blatant violation of international law and continued provocations in the region.

In its letter to *UN Secretary General* Ban Ki-moon dated May 28, the Vietnamese Permanent Mission to the UN stated in clear and unequivocal words, its opposition to China’s detestable actions that violate Vietnam’s sovereignty and jurisdiction following the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS).






The letter included a copy of a diplomatic note sent to the *Chinese Foreign ministry *asking China to end its illegal action in Vietnam’s territorial waters, delineating with specificity Vietnam’s legal and rational basis for its claim of sovereignty over the areas where the rig was located.

The document stated in strong terms Vietnam’s opposition against China’s feckless arguments that its placement of its Haiyang Shiyou-981 oil rig is in the so-called “Xisha” islands which is Chinese territory. The Chinese arguments, which refer to Vietnam’s Hoang Sa (Paracel) archipelago, which were first illegally occupied by China in 1974, are baseless and without merit on their face.

Vietnam has repeatedly requested China remove its oil rig and escort ships from Vietnam’s waters and stop all provocative actions that pose a threat to peace, stability and maritime safety and security in the region.

The country also refuted China’s statement accusing Vietnam of designating 57 oil and gas blocs in the disputed waters, including 7 oil and gas fields and 37 drilling platforms.

Vietnam reaffirmed its viewpoint that China does not rely on any legal theory grounded in the law or fact; therefore, Vietnam has resolutely rejected this wrongful opinion and announced that all of Vietnam’s operations are conducted in its continental shelf in accordance with the UNCLOS.

The diplomatic note emphasized that after China withdraws its oil rig, the two sides will sit down at the negotiating table and in good faith discuss measures to resolve the situation and settle sea-related issues.

The Vietnamese Permanent Mission to the UN asked the UN Secretary General to circulate its diplomatic note as an official document of the 68th session of UN General Assembly.

On May 29, the Mission also issued a press release on the above-mentioned issue.

Earlier on May 9, the UN published a diplomatic note of Vietnam’s Foreign Ministry, opposing China’s illegal placement of Haiyang Shiyou-981 oil rig in Vietnam’s exclusive economic zone and continental shelf, seriously violating Vietnam’s sovereignty over sea and islands.

Vietnam takes East Sea territorial dispute to UN | VOV Online Newspaper

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Raphael

veto'd. lol.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

Next step is to put the chinese triggered escalation to the UN Security Council.
Vietnam government will likely give China an ultimatum in the next days.

in Singapore at the current Shangri-La Dialogue, Vietnam defence minister holds talks with America, England and France, the other three permanent members of UNSC. Seems the three great powers will back Vietnam. Russia remains neutral.

China is isolated.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## sweetgrape

Great, hope you real do that, I support you do these, hehe!


----------



## eazzy

Go on Vietnam !

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

eazzy said:


> Go on Vietnam !


already done.

at his speech before the international audience in Singapore, Vietnam demands China to withdraw the oil rig immediately or Vietnam must do what we have to do.








Raphael said:


> veto'd. lol.


even if China vetos, we will know who is our friend and who is our enemy?
in any case, China will be put at the same category as Iran or Syria.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

Great news。

In the meantime，China should accelerate the constructions of rigs 892、944 and 945 so that the planned explorations of more oil blocks in the SCS might be brought forward as required。

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## maxpayne

Viet said:


> Vietnam government will likely give China an ultimatum in the next days.


I love you boy


----------



## atatwolf

Viet said:


> China is isolated.


Next step:
1. Sanctions against China
2. Moving production to Vietnam

China will probably get more aggresive and something will have to be done.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## eazzy

"Vietnam must do what we have to do" 

Cry for help ? Piss your pants ? Defect to Switzerland ? Cry forever like you, blobfish defence minister ?


----------



## Raphael

Viet said:


> even if China vetos, we will know who is our friend and who is our enemy?
> in any case, China will be put at the same category as Iran or Syria.



This exposes your cheap hooker mentality, willing to sell out to the highest bidder. Do you really think China made the wrong decision vetoing Syria/Iran resolutions? US military intervention already caused 1M+ casualties in Iraq, so we must conclude you want to see the same carnage take place in Syria/Iran.

This is why nobody supports you. You have no principles, only a venal lust for territory that doesn't belong to you. You want to see US hegemony extended, at the expense of tens of millions dead across the world from countries who dare to oppose US hegemony, just because it gives you an opportunity to snatch Chinese islands you covet. Instead of conspiring every day against the territorial integrity of your neighbors, you should focus instead on improving your economy so that you are no longer poorer than Papua New Guinea. For one, your spontaneous and deadly mob violence definitely doesn't inspire foreign investor confidence.

I hope the Chinese members realize we are dealing with an inhuman 'people' here. Their entire country was founded on sin and wrongdoing. Obviously, the jungle in incapable of inculcating moral values, only a deadly and atavistic 'jungle mentality'. No mercy should be shown until they repent for their sins.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## xunzi

A rat cannot scare a dragon. Let be honest here, we drill in our administer territory. The world can see and witness that. We will not say much. The international community will see who is right in this.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## EastSea

xunzi said:


> A rat cannot scare a dragon. Let be honest here, we drill in our administer territory. The world can see and witness that. We will not say much. The international community will see who is right in this.



dragon is from paper, in china dream.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Globenim

Blablabla.

All Vietnamese do is bark, cry and beg one foreign nation after another since the started their aggressive moves around the rig and any other aggression in the South China Sea.
Vietnam is gonna do this.
China illegal that..
Sugar daddy this is gonna deal with China.

For three weeks nothing else. Just crying, barking and begging for help. 
Yet the oil rig is still at the Xisha islands and still safely protected from any act of aggression by Vietnam.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

eazzy said:


> "Vietnam must do what we have to do"
> 
> Cry for help ? Piss your pants ? Defect to Switzerland ? Cry forever like you, blobfish defence minister ?



Defect to France and wash plates like you ?



maxpayne said:


> I love you boy



I think he is boy.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## xunzi

EastSea said:


> dragon is from paper, in china dream.


You cannot make a dragon out of paper. Your flaw logic demonstrates your common sense. I'm afraid, my little Vietnamese friend, that nobody in the UN will support you. After all, we are a leader in developing world and a P5. Any topic of insignificance will get vetoe by us.


----------



## EastSea

cirr said:


> Great news。
> 
> In the meantime，China should accelerate the constructions of rigs 892、944 and 945 so that the planned explorations of more oil blocks in the SCS might be brought forward as required。



then you need 400 surveillance ships there, he he.



xunzi said:


> You cannot make a dragon out of paper. Your flaw logic demonstrates your common sense. I'm afraid, my little Vietnamese friend, that nobody in the UN will support you. After all, we are a leader in developing world and a P5. Any topic of insignificance will get vetoe by us.



Dragon doesn't exist.

This move is just for people in the world know the true face of China. member of UN SC but China don't respect rules of international law.

Chinese people is under rule of corruption govt. who got benefit from building such toys to bully his neighbors.


----------



## cnleio

One negative vote from this room of U.N to end it !


----------



## EastSea

cnleio said:


> One negative vote from this room of U.N to end it !



This is predicted comedian.


----------



## Viet

atatwolf said:


> Next step:
> 1. Sanctions against China
> 2. Moving production to Vietnam
> 
> China will probably get more aggresive and something will have to be done.


Yes, the world must help Vietnam to stop chinese aggression now, before the monster gets bigger and threatens the world security. If Vietnam loses the battle, all other countries in the region will lose, too, from Japan to Australia.

Today the oil rig, tomorrow they will deploy aircraft carriers and destroyers to invade Vietnam.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## tranquilium

Viet said:


> Next step is to put the chinese triggered escalation to the UN Security Council.
> Vietnam government will likely give China an ultimatum in the next days.
> 
> in Singapore at the current Shangri-La Dialogue, Vietnam defence minister holds talks with America, England and France, the other three permanent members of UNSC. Seems the three great powers will back Vietnam. Russia remains neutral.
> 
> China is isolated.



Let me rephrase this intent----Vietnam intends to sue a UN permanent security council member at UN security council. Let me know how that one will fly.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

maxpayne said:


> I love you boy


my friend, Vietnam will never back down.
Pakistan is welcome to join us 



tranquilium said:


> Let me rephrase this intent----Vietnam intends to sue a UN permanent security council member at UN security council. Let me know how that one will fly.


you don´t get it.

We don´t expect a success at UNSC. we need a vote. we need to sort out friends and enemies.
Similar to other step Vietnam is preparing to sue China at the international court of justice in the Hague.
We bring China to the international stage.

by the way, due to the imbalance of power, Vietnam´s strategy to deal with China is to make the dispute to an open party. Everyone can join. From small to big nations.


----------



## tranquilium

Viet said:


> my friend, Vietnam will never back down.
> Pakistan is welcome to join us
> 
> you don´t get it.
> 
> We don´t expect a success at UNSC. we need a vote. we need to sort out friends and enemies.
> Similar to other step Vietnam is preparing to sue China at the international court of justice in the Hague.
> 
> by the way, due to the imbalance of power, Vietnam´s strategy to deal with China is to make the dispute to an open party. Everyone can join. From small to big nations.



Again, let me know how that one will turn out. Considering there isn't a single example of a minor nation successfully suing a major nation in this kind of dispute in the entire human history, I wait with bated breath for Vietnam to make history.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## pigtaker

Viet said:


> even if China vetos, we will know who is our friend and who is our enemy?
> in any case, China will be put at the same category as Iran or Syria.


Look, veitnam likes to embrace their fomer colonizer and agent orange sprayer as friend. It seems like we are too soft on it in the past.what heavy handed measure should we exert for it calling us master?

Becides, viets believe 3 meetings could bring them 3 votes. where that delusion come from? hypotize, anxiety or desperate? they must spend too much time hanging around with indians.



Viet said:


> my friend, Vietnam will never back down.
> Pakistan is welcome to join us
> 
> 
> you don´t get it.
> 
> We don´t expect a success at UNSC. we need a vote. we need to sort out friends and enemies.
> Similar to other step Vietnam is preparing to sue China at the international court of justice in the Hague.
> We bring China to the international stage.
> 
> by the way, due to the imbalance of power, Vietnam´s strategy to deal with China is to make the dispute to an open party. Everyone can join. From small to big nations.


That is great. the world know that we are in a foe. we could have a free hand to heavy handle you, just like Us hangle cuba. This is a golden opportunity for us to set an example for those want to go against us.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## xesy

Globenim said:


> Blablabla.
> 
> All Vietnamese do is bark, cry and beg one foreign nation after another since the started their aggressive moves around the rig and any other aggression in the South China Sea.
> Vietnam is gonna do this.
> China illegal that..
> Sugar daddy this is gonna deal with China.
> 
> For three weeks nothing else. Just crying, barking and begging for help.
> Yet the oil rig is still at the Xisha islands and still safely protected from any act of aggression by Vietnam.


We act and we become savage, we don't act and we become all talk. Chinese logic never fails to amaze me.
You just want a war with a much weaker opponent to scare the world of how strong you are. China goes home and plays with your paper dragon. We Vietnam deal with it the adult's way.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

pigtaker said:


> Look, veitnam likes to embrace their fomer colonizer and agent orange sprayer as friend. It seems like we are too soft on it in the past.what heavy handed measure should we exert for it calling us master?
> 
> Becides, viets believe 3 meetings could bring them 3 votes. where that delusion come from? hypotize, anxiety or desperate? they must spend too much time hanging around indians.
> 
> 
> That is great. the world know that we are in a foe. we could have a free hand to heavy handle you, just like Us hangle cuba. This is a golden opportunity for us to set an example for those want to go against us.


your insult does not impress me at all.
typical chinese tactic to bring America past aggression to justify your aggression today. that fails. try harder.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## xesy

pigtaker said:


> Look, veitnam likes to embrace their fomer colonizer and agent orange sprayer as friend. It seems like we are too soft on it in the past.what heavy handed measure should we exert for it calling us master?
> 
> Becides, viets believe 3 meetings could bring them 3 votes. where that delusion come from? hypotize, anxiety or desperate? they must spend too much time hanging around indians.
> 
> 
> That is great. the world know that we are in a foe. we could have a free hand to heavy handle you, just like Us hangle cuba. This is a golden opportunity for us to set an example for those want to go against us.


Huh, you Chinese embrace the ideal of hateful toward former enemies. You never let go, do you? China is becoming the new Nazi. Now tell me, don't Chinese hate every Japanese equally?

There is no eternal friendship, only eternal benefit. Vietnam do not forget the pain and suffering the US brought to us in the war, but Vietnam do not blame the US for the sin of their fathers. We only blame who are responsible. We are still sueing those who sprayed Agent Orange on our land and we will never give up.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

tranquilium said:


> Again, let me know how that one will turn out. Considering there isn't a single example of a minor nation successfully suing a major nation in this kind of dispute in the entire human history, I wait with bated breath for Vietnam to make history.


well, the world witnesses Empire rising and falling. China is not an exception. Read carefully your history. Less arrogance is very helpful. Who says China under CCP will live forever?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## pigtaker

Viet said:


> your insult does not impress me at all.
> typical chinese tactic to bring America past aggression to justify your aggression today. that fails. try harder.





Viet said:


> your insult does not impress me at all.
> typical chinese tactic to bring America past aggression to justify your aggression today. that fails. try harder.


I just tell the truth, you call it insult? then it is truth insulting. You should blame america and frence for what they did to you if you still have self-respect.

Moreroer, we did not step on your soil while you call us aggression? what a joke


----------



## xesy

pigtaker said:


> I tell the truth, you call it insult? then it is truth insulting. You should blame america and frence for what they did to you if you still have and self-respect?
> 
> Morevoer, we did not step on your soil while you call us aggression? what a joke


You step on our WATER, that's a big deal. Remember China made a bigger deal when Japanese airforce patroling over disputed water.

We don't call stepping on our soil aggression, we call it invasion. Chinese ships ramping, firing water cannons, chasing Vietnamese ships are what we call agression.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## sword1947

Rechoice said:


> The game made by hooligan with Ah Q' dream is just beginning. you have to wait and see.


You mean you make that game?


----------



## pigtaker

xesy said:


> You step on our WATER, that's a big deal. Remember China made a bigger deal when Japanese airforce patroling over disputed water.
> 
> We don't call stepping on our soil aggression, we call it invasion. Chinese ships ramping, firing water cannons, chasing Vietnamese ships are what we call agression.


your water? we have a different opinion.

Since we now opently confront with each other, we shold seriously consider strike whatever suits

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## sword1947

atatwolf said:


> Next step:
> 1. Sanctions against China
> 2. Moving production to Vietnam
> 
> China will probably get more aggresive and something will have to be done.


desire for your sanctions, can't wait to see, could you ask US & EU do this tomorrow?



xesy said:


> You step on our WATER, that's a big deal. Remember China made a bigger deal when Japanese airforce patroling over disputed water.
> 
> We don't call stepping on our soil aggression, we call it invasion. Chinese ships ramping, firing water cannons, chasing Vietnamese ships are what we call agression.


Japs' spy planes have been expelled, what a big deal

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## xesy

pigtaker said:


> your water? we have a different opinion.
> 
> Since we now opently confront with each other, we shold seriously consider strike whatever suits


Agreed. Still can you post some photos of your side? I only see Vietnamese photos so I assume that Chinese ships do all the provoking jobs.


sword1947 said:


> Japs' spy planes have been expelled, what a big deal


You see, mobilizing 2 fighters engaging in dogfight position to a patrol aircraft is a big deal. If Japan plane fell, a war could broke out you know.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## xesy

Jlaw said:


> The Chinese coast guard is preventing small Vietnamese ships in the drilling area for the safety of the Vietnamese. A small boat hitting a giant oil rig will sink the Vietnamese boat.
> The Vietnamese side did not heed the warning. The Chinese had no choice but to fire the water cannon to warn the Vietnamese.


Before any Vietnamese ships can hit the oil rig, or even get close, Chinese ships sink them. Irony that you said Chinese ships are there to protect Vietnamese ships.
To your laws warning actions can include firing water cannon, but to our laws, that's considered assaulting. And we are in our EEZ, so our water, our laws. Your move?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## sword1947

xesy said:


> Agreed. Still can you post some photos of your side? I only see Vietnamese photos so I assume that Chinese ships do all the provoking jobs.
> 
> You see, mobilizing 2 fighters engaging in dogfight position to a patrol aircraft is a big deal. If Japan plane fell, a war could broke out you know.


Everyone say it could break out a war, but nothing bappen only mouth fight. It is really boring.


----------



## xesy

sword1947 said:


> Everyone say it could break out a war, but nothing bappen only mouth fight. It is really boring.


Treasure peace, can you? War does not hurt the gov or the army. It only hurts civilians. Who on the right mind can hope for war?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zero_wing

Well the chinese are the only ones hoping for war i mean nation named after a warlord kinda speak for its self


----------



## sword1947

xesy said:


> Treasure peace, can you? War does not hurt the gov or the army. It only hurts civilians. Who on the right mind can hope for war?


a war for revenge, no one hesitate for that.


----------



## Beast

Viet said:


> Next step is to put the chinese triggered escalation to the UN Security Council.
> Vietnam government will likely give China an ultimatum in the next days.
> 
> in Singapore at the current Shangri-La Dialogue, Vietnam defence minister holds talks with America, England and France, the other three permanent members of UNSC. Seems the three great powers will back Vietnam. Russia remains neutral.
> 
> China is isolated.


 Will they used force to forced China? Their backing is by mouth. Mouth can't kill and dont hurts. 



Viet said:


> Yes, the world must help Vietnam to stop chinese aggression now, before the monster gets bigger and threatens the world security. If Vietnam loses the battle, all other countries in the region will lose, too, from Japan to Australia.
> 
> Today the oil rig, tomorrow they will deploy aircraft carriers and destroyers to invade Vietnam.



But nobody cares about Vietnam.  The western is using vietnam as pawn. They encourage Vietnam to draw the first blood but the west will never shed a blood for vietnam. I pity the vietnamese showing their simplistic mind.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Globenim

xesy said:


> We act and we become savage, we don't act and we become all talk. Chinese logic never fails to amaze me.
> You just want a war with a much weaker opponent to scare the world of how strong you are. China goes home and plays with your paper dragon. We Vietnam deal with it the adult's way.



I said AFTER after acting like savages and provoking China your retreated to all talk ang begging other to deal with Chinas response while playing the forum warrior game again accusing China and victimising the aggressor. But its expectable from people like you to twist.truth. The regime paying you acts no different. 

Acting likes savages, pretending to be victims, then calling us weak, paper dragon and aggressor and bullies all at the same time when we act with utmost greatest restraint to defend our assets in our waters against any provocation and aggression by your nation.


----------



## sword1947

Zero_wing said:


> Well the chinese are the only ones hoping for war i mean nation named after a warlord kinda speak for its self


おまえはにほんじんか, おたくか。


----------



## xesy

Globenim said:


> I said AFTER after acting like savages and provoking China your retreated to all talk ang begging other to deal with Chinas response while playing the forum warrior game again accusing China and victimising the aggressor. But its expectable from people like you to twist.truth. The regime paying you acts no different.
> 
> Acting likes savages, pretending to be victims, then calling us weak, paper dragon and aggressor and bullies all at the same time when we act with utmost greatest restraint to defend our assets in our waters against any provocation and aggression by your nation.


To us, it's you who did the exact same thing and you are bad at it. We are on the Internet, so let's deal with it the Internet way: "Pics or didn't happen". We show a lot lately and none from Chinese side. Don't tell me no one with mobile phones when they first set up the rig.



sword1947 said:


> a war for revenge, no one hesitate for that.


There sure is. I don't think any Chinese mother wants their only child join a hateful war. Win or lose, there will be dead sons.
Or are you such a savage war-thirsty beast?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## sword1947

xesy said:


> To us, it's you who did the exact same thing and you are bad at it. We are on the Internet, so let's deal with it the Internet way: "Pics or didn't happen". We show a lot lately and none from Chinese side. Don't tell me no one with mobile phones when they first set up the rig.
> 
> 
> There sure is. I don't think any Chinese mother wants their only child join a hateful war. Win or lose, there will be dead sons.
> Or are you such a savage war-thirsty beast?


Do you know what is the duty of soldier? I guess you don't know


----------



## xesy

sword1947 said:


> Do you know what is the duty of soldier? I guess you don't know


Then you tell me. 

To me soldier is to protect, not to destroy. Soldier is trained for war, but not born for it. Soldier follows orders, but they are not tools, they are human. Solder does not serve the high command, the gov, the politican, the general or the party. Their duty is to serve the nation and the people.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Aepsilons

sword1947 said:


> おまえはにほんじんか, おたくか。



いいえ。は一切の戦争を望んでいない.中国は好戦的である



xesy said:


> Then you tell me.
> 
> To me soldier is to protect, not to destroy. Soldier is trained for war, but not born for it. Soldier follows orders, but they are not tools, they are human. Solder does not serve the high command, the gov, the politican, the general or the party. Their duty is to serve the nation and the people.



Sometimes, the best defense is a good offense. 

In japanese we call this _Senryaku-tekina sutoraiki_.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## dingyibvs

Beast said:


> Will they used force to forced China? Their backing is by mouth. Mouth can't kill and dont hurts.
> 
> 
> 
> But nobody cares about Vietnam.  The western is using vietnam as pawn. They encourage Vietnam to draw the first blood but the west will never shed a blood for vietnam. I pity the vietnamese showing their simplistic mind.



The people who run Vietnam are not stupid, they understand full well that nobody will offer Vietnam any substantive help. On the other hand, they also understand that if they do not act tough, they'll be ousted by their own people since their legitimacy is based on economic progress and territorial integrity, and economic progress is falling yo the wayside these days.

Their strategy out of this impasse is, thus, very clear. They will not escalate the issue to a level where they must fight a war they cannot win, but they will continue to harrass the rig and speak loudly to show their people that they're not weak.


----------



## pigtaker

xesy said:


> Agreed. Still can you post some photos of your side? I only see Vietnamese photos so I assume that Chinese ships do all the provoking jobs.
> .


We don't have too much coverage on this event. Most of our photos come from your side. 
I know your public opinion is boiling,we are pretty quite. if we also reach such point, it means it is not far from military strike.


----------



## xesy

Nihonjin1051 said:


> いいえ。は一切の戦争を望んでいない.中国は好戦的である
> 
> 
> 
> Sometimes, the best defense is a good offense.
> 
> In japanese we call this _Senryaku-tekina sutoraiki_.


Agreed, but sometimes only. Otherwise it becomes provoking. But I am talking about the soldier himself, not the duty or strategy. If we need killing machines, we could just train assassin and hitman, not soldier.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## maxpayne

Viet said:


> my friend, Vietnam will never back down.
> Pakistan is welcome to join us


Pakistan will join anyone who has and who will be on our side in the time of need. And i see China more willing than Vietnam. Although we respect every country but suggest that the problems should be solved themselves rather taken on other forums. Take the example of Afghanistan, Iraq, Ukraine etc. No one will support Vietnam against China but every one will appear friend trying to use your shoulder against China. In the end, either You or China will be harmed and they will be happy safe at their homes. Your govt is emotional and not taking good decision. IMO. Sorry if im rude. Cheers


----------



## xesy

pigtaker said:


> We don't have too much coverage on this event. Most of our photos come from your side.
> I know your public opinion is boiling,we are pretty quite. if we also reach such point, it means it is not far from military strike.


Most unfortunately, war is very close. A small navy clash can happen any moment. I hope we can solve this peacefully.
Anyway, I heard that your gov said the situation in the sea is quite calm. Is that what they said?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Beast

dingyibvs said:


> Their strategy out of this impasse is, thus, very clear. They will not escalate the issue to a level where they must fight a war they cannot win, but they will continue to harrass the rig and speak loudly to show their people that they're not weak.



This strategy is bound to failed. As you say, they need the economic progress. And the help for economic progress is needed from the country they are fighting with. 

Vietnam can't have the best of both world. She needed to choose one.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ViXuyen

Raphael said:


> This exposes your cheap hooker mentality, willing to sell out to the highest bidder. Do you really think China made the wrong decision vetoing Syria/Iran resolutions? US military intervention already caused 1M+ casualties in Iraq, so we must conclude you want to see the same carnage take place in Syria/Iran.
> 
> This is why nobody supports you. You have no principles, only a venal lust for territory that doesn't belong to you. *You want to see US hegemony extended*, at the expense of tens of millions dead across the world from countries who dare to oppose US hegemony, *just because it gives you an opportunity to snatch Chinese islands you covet*. Instead of conspiring every day against the territorial integrity of your neighbors, you should focus instead on improving your economy so that you are no longer poorer than Papua New Guinea. For one, your spontaneous and deadly mob violence definitely doesn't inspire foreign investor confidence.
> 
> I hope the Chinese members realize we are dealing with an inhuman 'people' here. Their entire country was founded on sin and wrongdoing. Obviously, the jungle in incapable of inculcating moral values, only a deadly and atavistic 'jungle mentality'. No mercy should be shown until they repent for their sins.


The phuck are you talking about? Do you see the U.S occuping our Paracel and Spratly islands? 

I have to repeat to you fools again that the most important issue for Vietnam is territory,.... NOT economy or even death.



Beast said:


> This strategy is bound to failed. As you say, they need the economic progress. And the help for economic progress is needed from the country they are fighting with.
> 
> Vietnam can't have the best of both world. She needed to choose one.


Forget about economic progress; territory is our numero uno priority. We have $10 TRILLION dollars of natural resources that most have not been tapped. That's a lot to spend for the next thousand of years to buy/produce missiles to keep up with you guys

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## pigtaker

xesy said:


> Most unfortunately, war is very close. A small navy clash can happen any moment. I hope we can solve this peacefully.
> Anyway, I heard that your gov said the situation in the sea is quite calm. Is that what they said?


we don't say it is quite, our report is mainly from your source. so everyone knows there is a raming game happen there, though the report is not on a daily basis.


----------



## rott

sword1947 said:


> おまえはにほんじんか, おたくか。


She's not a jap. She's a Filipino.


----------



## sword1947

xesy said:


> Then you tell me.
> 
> To me soldier is to protect, not to destroy. Soldier is trained for war, but not born for it. Soldier follows orders, but they are not tools, they are human. Solder does not serve the high command, the gov, the politican, the general or the party. Their duty is to serve the nation and the people.


Too young, too simple, too naive. what you think may be good, but they only exist in your dream. Search what US army have done to Iraq in recent years and viet-US war, then tell me whether these
soldier have violated your rule or not.


----------



## Zero_wing

rott said:


> She's not a jap. She's a Filipino.



Finally you people can spell things if you wanted to i thought it was race problem now i know its just Nazi type am better than you problema and its he not she @wipe


----------



## GR!FF!N

Good step by Vietnam.hopefully all party will join and will find a "Peaceful Solution" while UN will act as mediator.because if they not,there is bound to be some Naval clashes soon.and whoever may win that clash,everybody will be at loosing side,as that naval clash would trigger panic and heavy preparation for further clashes would continue and "Peaceful Dialogue" would take the back seat.any kind of hostility and all of these parties will loose billions of dollars and hard earned peace and state of normalcy all of these parties have earned in last 20-30 years.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

maxpayne said:


> Pakistan will join anyone who has and who will be on our side in the time of need. And i see China more willing than Vietnam. Although we respect every country but suggest that the problems should be solved themselves rather taken on other forums. Take the example of Afghanistan, Iraq, Ukraine etc. No one will support Vietnam against China but every one will appear friend trying to use your shoulder against China. In the end, either You or China will be harmed and they will be happy safe at their homes. Your govt is emotional and not taking good decision. IMO. Sorry if im rude. Cheers


well, Vietnam wants to negotiate, while China wants to dictate the terms.
They send warships and fighter jets into our waters. They outgun and outnumber us. They want us to surrender.

what should we do now? Nothing?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## xesy

sword1947 said:


> Too young, too simple, too naive. what you think may be good, but they only exist in your dream. Search what US army have done to Iraq in recent years and viet-US war, then tell me whether these
> soldier have violated your rule or not.


Soldiers are human too, good human and bad human. I know the world is grey, and the dark side are winning. But I believe in the good of humanity. The act of taking another life is never easy for anyone. I understand that there are reasons behind every actions, even those war crimes.
In our history book, the US is potrayed as the devil himself coming out of hell to toture Vietnamese. In certain cases, it's worse. But there is no deny that there are also good US troops, who put their lives on the line to save Vietnamese civilians from crossfire.
Governments and media show us what they want us to see, make us think what they want us to think. They cannot let their people know they are fighting for oil, for lands or for political benefits. To governments, soldiers are just tools, obeying orders and expendable. To those high-ups, death is just simple number, and war crime is just an issues needed covering-up. So please don't talk so lightly about war.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## sword1947

Nihonjin1051 said:


> いいえ。は一切の戦争を望んでいない.中国は好戦的である
> 
> 
> 
> Sometimes, the best defense is a good offense.
> 
> In japanese we call this _Senryaku-tekina sutoraiki_.


いまのにほんせふはほんとにへわをほしのか。ほしくないでしょう


----------



## Beast

Viet said:


> well, Vietnam wants to negotiate, while China wants to dictate the terms.
> They send warships and fighter jets into our waters. They outgun and outnumber us. They want us to surrender.
> 
> what should we do now? Nothing?



Surrender.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

Beast said:


> This strategy is bound to failed. As you say, they need the economic progress. And the help for economic progress is needed from the country they are fighting with.
> 
> Vietnam can't have the best of both world. She needed to choose one.


I suggest China withdraws the oil rig and goes back to negotiation table. Everything else is not acceptable.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Snomannen

Viet said:


> I suggest China withdraws the oil rig and goes back to negotiation table. Everything else is not acceptable.


Impossible, such action will make them lose their faces.


----------



## Beast

Viet said:


> I suggest China withdraws the oil rig and goes back to negotiation table. Everything else is not acceptable.



That is not your call. It needs lot of power to do that.


----------



## xesy

Beast said:


> Surrender.


Please do not troll. Be grown up and professional. Also "surrender" is not an option, if the Vietnam gov want to keep their seats intact.


sword1947 said:


> いまのにほんせふはほんとにへわをほしのか。ほしくないでしょう


Care to use English? I smell something fishy going on here? Just saying.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Jlaw

xesy said:


> Before any Vietnamese ships can hit the oil rig, or even get close, Chinese ships sink them. Irony that you said Chinese ships are there to protect Vietnamese ships.
> To your laws warning actions can include firing water cannon, but to our laws, that's considered assaulting. And we are in our EEZ, so our water, our laws. Your move?


Xishi islands are 120 miles off vietnam coast. Chinese rig drilling 18 miles off Chinese islands. The intruders are Vietnamese. Yes, Chinese boats are there to protect Vietnamese ships from harming themselves as Vietnamese may not understand or adhere to the laws of navigation.

Vietnam government is vilifying China for keeping Vietnamese boats away from danger of running into a giant steel rig.


----------



## Viet

KirovAirship said:


> Impossible, such action will make them lose their faces.


we both can find a solution to avoid such embarrassment.



Beast said:


> That is not your call. It needs lot of power to do that.


are you sure?
things have changed. we have backing from America and Japan.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## xesy

Jlaw said:


> Xishi islands are 120 miles off vietnam coast. Chinese rig drilling 18 miles off Chinese islands. The intruders are Vietnamese. Yes, Chinese boats are there to protect Vietnamese ships from harming themselves as Vietnamese may not understand or adhere to the laws of navigation.
> 
> Vietnam government is vilifying China for keeping Vietnamese boats away from danger of running into a giant steel rig.


Vietnam still claims those islands belong to Vietnam, so those became disputed territories. And you cannot apply the international law to those territories. Also even if the island is yours, the rig still needs to be in the 12 miles water of the island. Also you brought warships well inside the fighting range, should a war break out, missiles from your ships can reach Vietnam mainland in minutes. Of course we must react.
Also can you explain why you brought so many ships out there to protect the rig? It's not like we will sink it or anything? We'll just blast out high-power speakers until you leave our EEZ.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## sword1947

xesy said:


> Please do not troll. Be grown up and professional. Also "surrender" is not an option, if the Vietnam gov want to keep their seats intact.
> 
> Care to use English? I smell something fishy going on here? Just saying.


You can learn how to read Japanese, right? What I want to say is I don't believe present Japanese gov want to live peasefully with her neighbours.


----------



## Viet

Jlaw said:


> Xishi islands are 120 miles off vietnam coast. Chinese rig drilling 18 miles off Chinese islands. The intruders are Vietnamese. Yes, Chinese boats are there to protect Vietnamese ships from harming themselves as Vietnamese may not understand or adhere to the laws of navigation.
> 
> Vietnam government is vilifying China for keeping Vietnamese boats away from danger of running into a giant steel rig.


bring your arguments to the court of justice and UN. see you there.



Beast said:


> Surrender.


that is not an option.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Jlaw

Viet said:


> bring your arguments to the court and UN. see you there.


There is no dispute as these islands are controlled by China.



xesy said:


> Vietnam still claims those islands belong to Vietnam, so those became disputed territories. And you cannot apply the international law to those territories. Also even if the island is yours, the rig still needs to be in the 12 miles water of the island. Also you brought warships well inside the fighting range, should a war break out, missiles from your ships can reach Vietnam mainland in minutes. Of course we must react.
> Also can you explain why you brought so many ships out there to protect the rig? It's not like we will sink it or anything? We'll just blast out high-power speakers until you leave our EEZ.


You need to understand the details of UNCLOS before you reply to me on this issue.


----------



## xesy

sword1947 said:


> You can learn how to read Japanese, right? What I want to say is I don't believe present Japanese gov want to live peasefully with her neighbours.


I intended to, but you know, finished university and unemployed. 
There are no gov without ambitions. Even puppet gov wants to break out of master control. I think Japanese leaders are trying to restore its former glory, the same thing China has been doing. So there will be competitions and clashes, in finance and military. I think Chinese, Japanese and Vietnamese are quite similar in one thing: we all take national pride seriously. Even this is what we are doing for our countries. If our countries interest conflict, we quarell. If our countries get along well, we are friend. Too bad things go sour between us now.
Argh, what am I doing with my life? Talking all philosophy and sh*t.



Jlaw said:


> There is no dispute as these islands are controlled by China.
> 
> 
> You need to understand the details of UNCLOS before you reply to me on this issue.


I am not good about laws but in the EEZ, the resouce belongs to the coastal nation, is that right? Don't tell me China establish EEZ over ours.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Beast

Viet said:


> are you sure?
> things have changed. we have backing from America and Japan.



Verbal backing? The one like Ukraine?


----------



## tranquilium

Viet said:


> well, the world witnesses Empire rising and falling. China is not an exception. Read carefully your history. Less arrogance is very helpful. Who says China under CCP will live forever?



It probably won't last forever, but considering Chinese empire's record, 300 years seems to be the normal. With a center government not depending on hereditary ruling, the country is likely to last even longer. So it won't last forever, but 500 years is pretty nice.


----------



## Globenim

Beast said:


> Verbal backing? The one like Ukraine?



Currently they just try to milk their pawn selling them obsolete old and downgraded junk that couldn't even make a dent on Chinas navy..

If Vietnam manages to escalate the situation into a military show off with its continued provocation, they will send a 10 milion dollar check and tell them "good luck".


----------



## Rechoice

sword1947 said:


> You mean you make that game?



read again my post, china did it first. we have to do counter game.


----------



## Rechoice

Beast said:


> Verbal backing? The one like Ukraine?



I called chinese illusion.


----------



## dingyibvs

ViXuyen said:


> The phuck are you talking about? Do you see the U.S occuping our Paracel and Spratly islands?
> 
> I have to repeat to you fools again that the most important issue for Vietnam is territory,.... NOT economy or even death.
> 
> 
> Forget about economic progress; territory is our numero uno priority. We have $10 TRILLION dollars of natural resources that most have not been tapped. That's a lot to spend for the next thousand of years to buy/produce missiles to keep up with you guys



Well, $10 trillion is about what China produces in one year, you'll need a lot more money than that if you wanna keep up.


----------



## Beast

Rechoice said:


> I called chinese illusion.


 The illusion is yours. You are under the impression the west or Japan will use force to back their promise against China. Really, please wake up from the reality. None of those US,Japan or australia will risk a war with China for few islets claim by Vietnam.


----------



## Rechoice

Beast said:


> The illusion is yours. You are under the impression the west or Japan will use force to back their promise against China. Really, please wake up from the reality. None of those US,Japan or australia will risk a war with China for few islets claim by Vietnam.



Nope.

Vietnam's foreign affair is neutral, no joined to any ally and make good friendship with all countries in the world, include China. But kiddo govt of China in peking try to set up idiot hegemony in region and has been making impression on Vietnam and try to rob our Islands.

It is true face of China.


----------



## maxpayne

Viet said:


> well, Vietnam wants to negotiate, while China wants to dictate the terms.
> They send warships and fighter jets into our waters. They outgun and outnumber us. They want us to surrender.
> 
> what should we do now? Nothing?


Dialogues. I heard they offered you of joint ventures at sea but you turned down. Still there is time, have some mediator and start dialogues. Remember that we have some border issue with China after our independence, we negotiated and gave some land to them which they were justified. Now China is our best friend. Win-win for both.


----------



## Beast

Rechoice said:


> Nope.
> 
> Vietnam's foreign affair is neutral, no joined to any ally and make good friendship with all countries in the world, include China. But kiddo govt of China in peking try to set up idiot hegemony in region and has been making impression on Vietnam and try to rob our Islands.
> 
> It is true face of China.


Best solution for Vietnam is accepted China sovereignty over paracel and spratly island in return for a very favourable 50/50 profit sharing for any gas exploited in that area.

If not, Vietnam not only need to pursue a very expensive military expenditure that offer no return but damage to her own country like high military maintenance fee which will erode economy expansion for the good of the vietnamese.

India is one fine example. Not only their economic progress slow down due to high military expenditure which resulted negligence of public infrastructure development. They even run out of money to buy Rafale fighter and other equipment.


----------



## Viet

maxpayne said:


> Dialogues. I heard they offered you of joint ventures at sea but you turned down. Still there is time, have some mediator and start dialogues. Remember that we have some border issue with China after our independence, we negotiated and gave some land to them which they were justified. Now China is our best friend. Win-win for both.


chinese are liar. they want all. they don´t want to negotiate. nor have dialogue.
chinese are our enemy. we want peace, but chinese rather want us to be dead than alive. that is sad, but true.



Beast said:


> Best solution for Vietnam is accepted *China sovereignty over paracel and spratly island *in return for a very favourable 50/50 profit sharing for any gas exploited in that area.
> 
> If not, Vietnam not only need to pursue a very expensive military expenditure that offer no return but damage to her own country like high military maintenance fee which will erode economy expansion for the good of the vietnamese.
> 
> India is one fine example. Not only their economic progress slow down due to high military expenditure which resulted negligence of public infrastructure development. They even run out of money to buy Rafale fighter and other equipment.


NO, We never accept such a thing.
I have a better proposal: Vietnam shares 50/50 with you what we find of oil and gas in the East China Sea. Agreed? 

I think that is the best solution for you.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cirr

3500-tonne CCG 2306 launched at WC：







Talk less，do more。


----------



## cirr

“Haixun 11” departing for Rig 981：











Hope our Vietnamese friends catch nice pictures of the ship and share with us here in a couple of days。

Thanks in advance。

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Rechoice

Japan transfer Surveillance ships to Vietnam in beginning of year 2015.






General Nguyen Chi Vinh said to media and Reuter on 1/6/2014.


----------



## Beast

Viet said:


> chinese are liar. they want all. they don´t want to negotiate. nor have dialogue.
> chinese are our enemy. we want peace, but chinese rather want us to be dead than alive. that is sad, but true.
> 
> 
> NO, We never accept such a thing.
> I have a better proposal: Vietnam shares 50/50 with you what we find of oil and gas in the East China Sea. Agreed?
> 
> I think that is the best solution for you.



If you got the capabilities to do it, sure! But if you are an egg trying to stir a rock. Then you think too highly of yourself. 



Rechoice said:


> Japan transfer Surveillance ships to Vietnam in beginning of year 2015.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> General Nguyen Chi Vinh said to media and Reuter on 1/6/2014.



That's too late. By then we already finishing drilling all the oil.  And by 2015, CMS will have additional 8 more 4000tons cutter ship.


----------



## maxpayne

Viet said:


> chinese are liar. they want all. they don´t want to negotiate. nor have dialogue.
> chinese are our enemy. we want peace, but chinese rather want us to be dead than alive. that is sad, but true.


Too much hatred not good for health of men and nation. Leave a window open for future

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

Beast said:


> If you got the capabilities to do it, sure! But if you are an egg trying to stir a rock. Then you think too highly of yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> That's too late. By then we already finishing drilling all the oil.  And by 2015, CMS will have additional 8 more 4000tons cutter ship.



no problem, our ship 9001 is completed in Shipyard Song Thu, some more ships is under construction.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## NiceGuy

cirr said:


> “Haixun 11” departing for Rig 981：
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hope our Vietnamese friends catch nice pictures of the ship and share with us here in a couple of days。
> 
> Thanks in advance。


Ur economy is collapsing with terrorism raising everywhere in China, we just sit and wait for China civil war in near future

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cirr

Three new CCG vessels spotted：

*CCG 2104*






*CCG 2105*






*CCG 2106*






More to come，a lot more。

Our Vietnamese friends must be prepared for thousands of Chinese law enforcement ships roaming the SCS in the near future。

And China has over 10000 300-500 tonne steel-hull steel-shell fishing vessels just in Hainan and Guangxi provinces。

It is a protracted “war”。


----------



## NiceGuy

cirr said:


> Our Vietnamese friends must be prepared for thousands of Chinese law enforcement ships roaming the SCS in the near future。
> 
> And China has over 10000 300-500 tonne steel-hull steel-shell fishing vessels just in Hainan and Guangxi provinces。
> 
> It is a protracted “war”。


And it will make ur economy even worse , China civil war will come even sooner

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cirr

广西两艘1000吨级渔政船在厦门下水 - 北海新闻 - 北海新闻网 - Powered by Discuz!

Two new law enforcement vessels CFA 45013 and CFA 45005 launched at Xiamen Shipbuilding & Heavy Engineering Co。on 29.05.2014 and 30.05.2014，respectively：

*CFA 45013*






Both ships，plus a third one under construction at the same shipyard，will join CFA Guangxi Detachment for law enforcement tasks in the Beibu Gulf and the wasters of Xisha and Nansha Islands。

More to come，a lot more。

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

maxpayne said:


> Too much hatred not good for health of men and nation. Leave a window open for future


LOL, you're Pakistani, remember that, friend ...

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cirr

*CCG 3402* nearly ready for launch：






*CCG 1401* being given a final coat of paint before delivery：






CCG ships being outfitted at HPS


----------



## Rechoice

cirr said:


> *CCG 3402* nearly ready for launch：
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *CCG 1401* being given a final coat of paint before delivery：
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CCG ships being outfitted at HPS



he he he.


----------



## cirr

A new generation of CCG vessels with *full-electric propulsion* in the making：

*CCG 2302*





















Way to go，more to come。

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## CN.Black

cirr said:


> A new generation of CCG vessels with *full-electric propulsion* in the making：
> 
> *CCG 2302*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Way to go，more to come。


 Looks like 054 frigate.


----------



## Rechoice

*PM Nguyen Tan Dung talks to Bloomberg
*
_In an interview with Bloomberg on May 30, 2014, Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung spoke about the socio-economic situation in Vietnam in the first five months of this year._

He also highlighted that China’s recent acts have seriously infringed upon Vietnam’s sovereignty, seriously violated international law and the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the East Sea (DOC), and seriously threatened regional peace and stability.

Following is the full text of the interview

*Bloomberg: *According to this map, the area that China deploys its oil rig is into Vietnam’s 200 nautical miles waters as well as close to international maritime. What are the impact to the region and the world if the tension escalates to a conflict?

*PM Dung:* Conflict, war! I believe that you can easily imagine its devastating consequences.

If military conflict breaks out, there will be no loser or winner. I wish to highlight that as approximately two-thirds of the global trade in goods are shipped via the East Sea, a single irresponsible act triggering conflict will immediately interrupt this huge cargo flow. As a result, not only economies of this region but even the whole world will be hurt by its unforeseeable consequences.

*Bloomberg: *How will Vietnam respond to China's actions over the oil rig in Vietnam's exclusive economic zone? Is a military response possible and what is the risk of that?

*PM Dung:* We have repeatedly highlighted that the independence and sovereignty of our Fatherland are sacred and inviolable. We will never agree to swap them for any other things. Vietnam has and will do its utmost to defend the sovereignty over its waters by peaceful means. Over the last month, we have made at least 30 communications with China to demand the latter withdraw its oil rig from the waters under the Vietnamese sovereignty. That is to say more than one communication per day on average.

As for military action, I once again underline that the consistent defence policy of Vietnam is peace and self-defence. We will only resort to military action when we are forced to opt for self-defence.

*Bloomberg: *Will Vietnam take legal action against China? Is there a discussion about joining the Philippine case against China?

*PM Dung: *Vietnam will resort to every peaceful means to defend the sacred sovereignty over its islands and waters. Legal action in conformity with international law is also a peaceful measure.

Vietnam is considering this option.

*Bloomberg: *What type of that legal action is likely?

*PM Dung: *As I have said, Vietnam will resort to every peaceful means to defend the sacred sovereignty over its islands and waters.

We have prepared all evidence and legal dossiers. What we are considering is the appropriate timing.

*Bloomberg: *Vietnam and China have large trade and investment relationship, how will this incident and the unresolved escalation affect the trade ties?

*PM Dung:* We are living in the age of extensive globalization and international economic integration. The whole world has become a single market. Economic cooperation between and among countries is based on market economy principles, equality and mutual benefit. The economic cooperation between Vietnam and China is no exception. To date, generally speaking, the bilateral cooperation in economy trade, investment and tourism still takes place as normal.

China’s infringement on the Vietnamese waters has to certain extent impacted some sectors of the Vietnamese economy. We have adopted several appropriate solutions in response.

The Vietnamese economy grew by more than 5.4% in 2013. The first five months of 2014 witnessed good progress toward our set targets. The macroeconomy remained stable. Inflation was well kept under control. Foreign reserve increased significantly. Exports surged by approximately 16% and the GDP growth for 2014 is expected to hit 5.8%.

Several days ago in some provinces of the country, the Vietnamese people launched demonstrations against China’s infringement of Vietnam’s sovereignty. It was regrettable that some demonstrators were incited by individuals with ill intention into breaking the law. We have timely contained the incident and successfully prevented its reoccurrence. The lawbreakers were strictly punished. Vietnam has also provided timely and effective assistance to the affected enterprises, thus enabling most of them to resume normal production and business activities.

*Bloomberg: *At the Shangri-La Dialogue 2013, You had a speech focused on building strategic trust among Southeast Asian countries. Has that been achieved? You also called for the U.S. to play a larger role in the Asia region. What would Vietnam like the US to do generally in countering China 's push into the South China Sea and in regard to the oil rig dispute?

*PM Dung:* I underscore that rapid and sustainable economic development will not be possible without peace and stability; and peace and stability will also not be possible without strategic trust between and among countries- the strategic trust that is based on serious compliance with international law and respect for each other’s independence and sovereignty.

Whether strategic trust has been attained in this region, I believe that you must have already had your answers.

The US is a global power, and also a power of the Asia-Pacific region. We hope that the United States will make stronger, more practical and more effective contributions to peace and stability in the region.

*Bloomberg:* When or will you sign legislation raising the foreign ownership limits of public companies? How high beyond the current 49 percent cap will you lift it? In which scenarios would Vietnam consider allowing 100% foreign purchase of Vietnamese companies and banks?

*PM Dung:* Vietnam is restructuring its economy and deepening its integration into the global economy. Vietnam is now a WTO member, and also a party to various economic cooperation frameworks and free trade agreements with partners around the globe. The country is actively negotiating new free trade agreements, especially the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP). Therefore, we will continue to open up our markets, including finance and banking under roadmaps that match the demands of international integration and specific circumstances of the Vietnamese economy.

I wish to emphasize that opening up markets is the must-go path of the Vietnamese economy, and such trajectory has been consistently pursued.

*Bloomberg:* Thank you very much!


----------



## cirr

CN.Black said:


> Looks like 054 frigate.



More like


CN.Black said:


> Looks like 054 frigate.



This is it：


----------



## pigtaker

Viet said:


> chinese are liar. they want all. they don´t want to negotiate. nor have dialogue.
> chinese are our enemy. we want peace, but chinese rather want us to be dead than alive. that is sad, but true.



It is no use to play victim card here. Out of our 14 neigbours, why are we just harsh on you, there must be a reason.

Long time ago, we proposed joint cooperation, you rejected that suggestion because your greedy. now that time window has passed.

Worst is out of your treacherous nature, you want to introduce external power like US and Japan into this episode, dreaming the so-called US-led international pressure would force us to back off. This behavior would never be tolerated by today's China.

Now our relationship has embarked on a road of no turning back, we would keep maintaining a tension state around you, sacring off all your foreign investments. For your information, your FDI already decreased 40% so far this year compraring to last year's.

In short, because of your government's stupidity and miscalculation, you already become an official enemy of China. The higher you jump, the severer we would strike. Your suffering peroid will be very, very long in the future.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Jlaw

pigtaker said:


> It is no use to play victim card here. Out of our 14 neigbours, why are we just harsh on you, there must be a reason.
> 
> Long time ago, we proposed joint cooperation, you rejected that suggestion because your greedy. now that time window has passed.
> 
> Worst is out of your treacherous nature, you want to introduce external power like US and Japan, dreaming the so-called US-led international pressure would force us to back off. That behavior would never be tolerated by today's China.
> 
> Now our relationship has embarked on a road of no turning back, we would keep maintaining a tension state around you, sacring off all your foreign investments. For your information, your FDI already decreased 40% so far this year compraring to last year's.
> 
> In short, because of your government's stupidity and miscalculation, you already become an official enemy of China. The higher you jump, the severer we would strike. Your suffering peroid will be very, very long in the future.


 
I certainly hope that Chinese government take a harsher tone to countries that are stirring up trouble for us. If I were Vietnamese government, I would just remain silent and stay neutral and reap the rewards once China is finish pacifying the SCS.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## pigtaker

Jlaw said:


> I certainly hope that Chinese government take a harsher tone to countries that are stirring up trouble for us. If I were Vietnamese government, I would just remain silent and stay neutral and reap the rewards once China is finish pacifying the SCS.


As I said, it is their government's stupid and greedy nature leading to this situation. We need to find someone to set an example, and stupid viets volunteerly step out. what a match! Just like a Chinses saying: you encounter a pillow when you feel sleepy.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cirr

Jlaw said:


> I certainly hope that Chinese government take a harsher tone to countries that are stirring up trouble for us. If I were Vietnamese government, I would just remain silent and stay neutral and reap the rewards once China is finish pacifying the SCS.



You have over-estimated the IQ of a certain species。

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Jlaw

cirr said:


> You have over-estimated the IQ of a certain species。


 
.


----------



## cirr

CFA 45005 and CFA 45013 launched at XSI：
















Tip of the iceberg。More to come，a lot more。


----------



## cirr




----------



## Rechoice

*East Sea tensions – the centrepiece of Shangri-La Dialogue*
_East Sea tensions following China’s illegal placement of its drilling rig Haiyang Shiyou-981 in Vietnam’s exclusive economic zone were hotly debated at the recent 13th Shangri-la Dialogue in Singapore._

Most participating delegates voiced their support for Vietnam’s stance, condemned China’s move and asked it to immediately stop destabilising actions in the region.






Vietnamese Defence Minister General Phung Quang Thanh reiterated Vietnam’s consistent policy of settling the East Sea dispute by peaceful measures in accordance with international law, especially the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), the 2002 ASEAN-China Declaration o the Conduct of Parties in the East Sea (DOC), and ASEAN’s Six-Point Principle on the East Sea.

He demanded China that China immediately withdraw the rig from Vietnam’s waters and sit down at the negotiating table to maintain peace, stability, and relationships between the two countries.

Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, a keynote speaker at the regional security summit, supported Vietnam and the Philippines in reducing tensions in the East Sea, and stressed the use of force and intimidation the change the status quo is unjustifiable.

Japan will offer its utmost support for the efforts of ASEAN countries as they work to ensure the security of the seas and the skies, and thoroughly maintain freedom of navigation and overflight, he said.

US Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel accused China of carrying out acts that cause instability in the East Sea and warned Washington would not ignore such acts if the international order is threatened.

He said China has undertaken destabilising, unilateral actions to assert its claims in the East Sea. The US “will not look the other way when fundamental principles of the international order are being challenged".

He also made it clear that Washington firmly opposes any nation’s use of intimidation, coercion, or the threat of using force to assert those claims.

Hagel confirmed the US will continue to embark on its pivot policy in Asia, and Asia-Pacific nations need to cooperate with each other to maintain peace, prosperity and long-term stability.

Russian Deputy Defence Minister Anatoly Antonov said Russia’s main goal is to ensure peace and security in the Asia-Pacific region which is vital to sustainable economic development and prosperity of all nations.

Meeting security threats requires concerted efforts from all countries under the auspices of the United Nations and the UN Security Council, as well as regional and sub-regional structures such as the East Asia Summit, ASEAN Regional Forum, and ASEAN Defence Ministers Meeting Plus (ADMM+), he said.

French Defence Minister Jean-Yves e Drian asked parties concerned to soon reach a consensus conclusion of a code of conduct in the East Sea (COC), considering it an effective tool for preventing disputes and building an environment of peace, stability and prosperity in the region.

Singaporean Defence Minister Ng Eng Hen said reducing these threats by developing multilateral relations and frameworks to restore confidence through cooperation and consensus.

Meanwhile, the Chinese delegation failed to explain its groundless East Sea claim. Scholars asked head of the Chinese delegation, Lieutenant General Wang Guanzhong, to elaborate on China’s so-called ‘nine-dash line’ in the East Sea.

However, Wang, who is deputy chief of the general staff of the Chinese People’s Liberation Army, just said China is preparing for direct negotiations with each of the parties concerned.

_VOV/VNN_

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## VietHome

Contrary to the lies from Chinese media and leaders that Vietnamese boat "rammed the Chinese ship and sunk," this video clearly shown what happened in 05/26 when Chinese ships chased this Vietnamese boat with the intention to kill like a "wild animal." This is indeed a barbaric action rarely seen from a state in the 21st century.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## CN.Black

Good job,next time we should use a gun to sink viet boats.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cnleio

CN.Black said:


> Good job,next time we should use a gun to sink viet boats.


Remember China never shoot first bullet, but we prepare for the worst situation happen.
Chinese need "师出有名" ！

We have seen the video and pics on the Chinese internet.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## VietHome

cnleio said:


> We have seen the video and pics on the Chinese internet.


Then you should know by now that your leaders are all lying through their teeth.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Bastion-P

Chinese officials are just a bunch of liars. And the Chinese posters on this forum are all brainwashed, and become liars like their government.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cnleio

VietHome said:


> Then you should know by now that your leaders are all lying through their teeth.


What i knew is China local media have showed chasing Vietnam boat videos on TV news, Chinese ppl get used to it. China think our CHINA COAST GUARD did well coz XiSha islands belong to China.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## tbquestion

cirr said:


> CFA 45005 and CFA 45013 launched at XSI：
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tip of the iceberg。More to come，a lot more。


I like the Hanoi 's peaceful methods of settling dispute. Remind me of India's Gandhi and his nonviolence struggle against British colonial rule. I wished Hanoi had implement this peaceful policy against the American during the Vietnam War then there would be on casualty on either sides. The Bible teach us to "turn the other cheek" when someone slap us, good for you Vietnam!



tbquestion said:


> I like the Hanoi 's peaceful methods of settling dispute. Remind me of India's Gandhi and his nonviolence struggle against British colonial rule. I wished Hanoi had implement this peaceful policy against the American during the Vietnam War then there would be on casualty on either sides. The Bible teach us to "turn the other cheek" when someone slap us, good for you Vietnam!


I meant no casualty.


----------



## DT1010

cnleio said:


> What i knew is China local media have showed chasing Vietnam boat video on TV news, Chinese ppl get used to it. China think our CHINA COAST GUARD did well coz XiSha islands belong to China.


and do you know what your fellow countryman talk about this incident?
"Vietnamese is invader, they attack us first, we didn't do anything, it's their fault, i repeat that we didn't ram their ship, they attack us first"

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

CCG 1401 formally inducted：


----------



## VietHome

cnleio said:


> What i knew is China local media have showed chasing Vietnam boat video on TV news, Chinese ppl get used to it. China think our CHINA COAST GUARD did well coz XiSha islands belong to China.


Of course, what they would show is Chinese ships chasing the boats and some occasional water cannon attack on Vietnamese ship. But what they did not show is the barbaric actions such as water canon targeting engines, glass windows, much bigger Chinese ships ramming Vietnam fishing boats, throwing sharp and heavy objects to damage Vietnam wooden boats. Especially, this sinking of poor Vietnamese fisherman ship went out of any international norms. The Chinese not only didn't help the other drowning human beings but also prevented Vietnamese ships to come to the rescue for a long while. Eventually, Vietnamese ships were allowed to rescue those poor people but without a single help from the Chinese ship. In real shooting war, civilized nations are not even that inhumane while this is just a low level conflict and the Chinese has shown how little human lives are worth to them.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cnleio

DT1010 said:


> and do you know what your fellow countryman talk about this incident?
> "Vietnamese is invader, they attack us first, we didn't do anything, it's their fault, i repeat that we didn't ram their ship, they attack us first"


*Did Vietnamese seize any island in XiSha islands/Paracel islands ? As far as i know ZERO !* How can Vietnam claim the sovereignty to XiSha islands/Paracel islands ???

The H981 oil rig reach Paracel islands much more closer than to Vietnam coast, it's in the water of XiSha/Paracel islands, in China water areas. So ur boats have invaded China's waters, u r the invader to XiSha/Paracel islands of China.



VietHome said:


> Of course, what they would show is Chinese ships chasing the boats and some occasional water cannon attack on Vietnamese ship. But what they did not show is the barbaric actions such as water canon targeting engines, glass windows, much bigger Chinese ships ramming Vietnam fishing boats, throwing sharp and heavy objects to damage Vietnam wooden boats. Especially, this sinking of poor Vietnamese fisherman ship went out of any international norms. The Chinese not only didn't help the other drowning human beings but also prevented Vietnamese ships to come to the rescue for a long while. Eventually, Vietnamese ships were allowed to rescue those poor people but without a single help from the Chinese ship. In real shooting war, civilized nations are not even that inhumane while this is just a low level conflict and the Chinese has shown how little human lives are worth to them.


First, we respect ur Vietnamese fisher's brave. The CHINA COAST GUARD also did their duty to keep ur boats far away from H981 oil rig.

Second, there's no War the water canon and ramming is the normal way to drive off foreign boats in Peace time. About the sink Vietnam wood ship it's a bad lucky.

It seems the H981 oil rig will continue her jobs near water areas of XiSha/Paracel Islands, as i said Vietnam did not any island in Paracel islands, there's not ur waters so just give up or the water show will continue.


----------



## cnleio

Vietnam has no any island in XiSha/Paracel Islands, and China government know ur Vietnam just wanna using this H981 rig case to make the un-dispute Paracel islands and waters controlled by China become a disputed areas between China and Vietnam.

If Vietnamese won't give up that stupid idea, the only thing China will do is to send more ships patrolling in this waters. The Attrition Warfare won't hurt China anymore, only damage our relationship.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## VietHome

cnleio said:


> First, we respect ur Vietnamese fisher's brave. The CHINA COAST GUARD also did their duty to keep ur boats far away from H981 oil rig.
> 
> Second, there's no War the water canon and ramming is the normal way to drive off foreign boats in Peace time. About the sink Vietnam wood ship it's a bad lucky.
> 
> It seems the H981 oil rig will continue her jobs near water areas of XiSha/Paracel Islands, as i said Vietnam did not any island in Paracel islands, there's not ur waters so just give up or the water show will continue.


First, yes, we are bearing our ships to receive hits from yours without fighting back, we are showing you our spirits while at the same time prevent a war to save lives for both countries. We are like a tiny boxer, small, but never back down. You should have learnt that by now looking back at all the wars we have been fighting. Vietnam has always been at the disadvantage but we win in the end. We will fight to the last ship until you get out of our water.

Second, the Japanese also use water cannon to fight off your ships at the Senkaku. However, they were more civilized and never did to the extent that you are bulling Vietnam here. Ramming to sink a much smaller boat is is not "unlucky" action, especially when it is trying to run away, it's a blatant and naked aggression. Not helping drowning people afterward is just inhumane and mean-spirited.

Third, it will not end until the rig is moved away. The Paracel is Paracel, don't suddenly put the Chinese name next to it a call it yours. Don't repeat that bs here. No country in the world recognize Chinese ownership over the islands. It's an illegal occupation and annexation of another country's territory. It's not your islands or your water and China has next to no argument that it is yours. That's why the PRC government has been avoiding international court.



cnleio said:


> Vietnam has no any island in XiSha/Paracel Islands, and China government know ur Vietnam just wanna using this H981 rig case to make the un-dispute Paracel islands and waters controlled by China become a disputed areas between China and Vietnam.


Wow, this is a new argument coming from Chinese media. "Bringing the undisputed to a disputed" is the line Vietnamese side has used since the start of the oil rig incident. Now the Chinese is copying it. 

The islands are controlled but not owned by China, it's that exact same thing PRC is using against Japan for the Senkaku islands. Unfortunately for China, there is a mountain of proofs that Vietnam had been owners of these islands for centuries. 



cnleio said:


> If Vietnamese won't give up that stupid idea, the only thing China will do is to send more ships patrolling in this waters. The Attrition Warfare won't hurt China anymore, only damage our relationship.


Relationship can only built on trust and mutual respect. PRC has shown none to us while lying to the world. Why would any country trust China with that kind of behavior?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cnleio

VietHome said:


> First, yes, we are bearing our ships to receive hits from yours without fighting back, we are showing you our spirits while at the same time prevent a war to save lives for both countries. We are like a tiny boxer, small, but never back down. You should have learnt that by now looking back at all the wars we have been fighting. Vietnam has always been at the disadvantage but we win in the end. We will fight to the last ship until you get out of our water.
> 
> Second, the Japanese also use water cannon to fight off your ships at the Senkaku. However, they were more civilized and never did to the extent that you are bulling Vietnam here. Ramming to sink a much smaller boat is is not "unlucky" action, especially when it is trying to run away, it's a blatant and naked aggression. Not helping drowning people afterward is just inhumane and mean-spirited.
> 
> Third, it will not end until the rig is moved away. The Paracel is Paracel, don't suddenly put the Chinese name next to it a call it yours. Don't repeat that bs here. No country in the world recognize Chinese ownership over the islands. It's an illegal occupation and annexation of another country's territory. It's not your islands or your water and China has next to no argument that it is yours. That's why the PRC government has been avoiding international court.


First, since 1945 Chinese joint whole Vietnam Wars and we clearly know what Vietnamese looks like.

Second, as far as i know the Water War in DiaoYu/Senkaku island dispute was happened between JAPAN COAST GUARD and TaiWan ship boat + TAIWAN COAST GUARD, there's no any pic on the internet to show Japanese ships use water cannon fight off China's ships (If there'r, pls show to me.). According to pics of CHINA COAST GUARD and JAPAN COAST GUARD in DiaoYu/Senkaku island waters, there's PEACE time no water cannon and ramming.


Third, Vietnam has *ZERO* island in XiSha/Paracel islands, there's a un-disputed waters and islands it belong to China. If Vietnam won't give up, the water game will continue untill u can not affort the damage.



VietHome said:


> Wow, this is a new argument coming from Chinese media. "Bringing the undisputed to a disputed" is the line Vietnamese side has used since the start of the oil rig incident. Now the Chinese is copying it.
> 
> The islands are controlled but not owned by China, it's that exact same thing PRC is using against Japan for the Senkaku islands. Unfortunately for China, there is a mountain of proofs that Vietnam had been owners of these islands for centuries.
> 
> 
> Relationship can only built on trust and mutual respect. PRC has shown none to us while lying to the world. Why would any country trust China with that kind of behavior?



Keep doing the stupid, it's not good for ur Vietnam development. U can't win in this Attrition Warfare, then China will target ur economy inside Vietnam.


----------



## VietHome

cnleio said:


> First, since 1945 Chinese joint whole Vietnam Wars and we clearly know what Vietnamese looks like.
> 
> Second, as far as i know the Water War in DiaoYu/Senkaku island dispute was happened between JAPAN COAST GUARD and TaiWan ship boat + TAIWAN COAST GUARD, there's no any pic on the internet to show Japanese ships use water cannon fight off China's ships (If there'r, pls show to me.). According to pics of CHINA COAST GUARD and JAPAN COAST GUARD in DiaoYu/Senkaku island waters, there's PEACE time no water cannon and ramming.
> 
> Third, Vietnam has *ZERO* island in XiSha/Paracel islands, there's a un-disputed waters and islands it belong to China. If Vietnam won't give up, the water game will continue untill u can not affort the damage.


Japanese ships against ship from Honkong 










And this is a Chinese ship ramming Japanese Coast Guard ship.






See any similarity with this one?








cnleio said:


> Keep doing the stupid, it's not good for ur Vietnam development. U can't win in this Attrition Warfare, then China will target ur economy inside Vietnam.


We are trying to get away from you. The only obvious course is to expand trade with Japan, ASEAN, India, and the US. Attrition warfare is our specialty; that is what won over ancient China, the France, and the US. China is not a good neighbor. Vietnam wants to be friend with you but it seems like PRC doesn't need friends. You are right, China is so big and so powerful that it can go up against the world. Even the Russians are really cautious with China. Who has to right mind to immediately after signing the gas agreement to suggest Russia open border to Chinese workers to "populate" Siberia?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Soryu

@cnleio your argument is very poor this time, you can't deny the fact that your Govt is liar about this case, also as many actions from begin of event.
If PRC govt do right things, why need to lied about this !?

Your fellow member said Chinese is very good at "troll", tactic move and strategy, so why did your govt do things like this !?
If you're rightful side, why did your govt said "everything is normal", but everyone said they concerns about these actions by China !?

Many countries supported Vietnamese peaceful solution, not aggressive move by PRC.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Good riddance!!!


----------



## cnleio

Soryu said:


> @cnleio your argument is very poor this time, you can't deny the fact that your Govt is liar about this case, also as many actions from begin of event.
> If PRC govt do right things, why need to lied about this !?
> 
> Your fellow member said Chinese is very good at "troll", tactic move and strategy, so why did your govt do things like this !?
> If you're rightful side, why did your govt said "everything is normal", but everyone said they concerns about these actions by China !?
> 
> Many countries supported Vietnamese peaceful solution, not aggressive move by PRC.


Interesting, what China government lie to the world ? I said China media has showed water cannon videos on the TV news, Water War and ramming videos on Chinese internet. China didn't refuse that. The XiSha/Paracel islands now controlled by China, it's the truth no need lie.

Our government said "Everything is normal" there's no any change in this local water areas, it's still a un-disputed areas for China, and H981 oil rig is legal work in XiSha waters of China. Ur Vietnam boats have invaded our water sovereignty, CHINA COAST GUARD just did the duty.

U said "Many countries supported Vietnamese peaceful solution" , how many countries support XiSha/Paracel islands belong to Vietnam, just tell me ???


----------



## Soryu

cnleio said:


> *Did Vietnamese seize any island in XiSha islands/Paracel islands ? As far as i know ZERO !* How can Vietnam claim the sovereignty to XiSha islands/Paracel islands ???
> 
> The H981 oil rig reach Paracel islands much more closer than to Vietnam coast, it's in the water of XiSha/Paracel islands, in China water areas. So ur boats have invaded China's waters, u r the invader to XiSha/Paracel islands of China.
> 
> 
> First, we respect ur Vietnamese fisher's brave. The CHINA COAST GUARD also did their duty to keep ur boats far away from H981 oil rig.
> 
> Second, there's no War the water canon and ramming is the normal way to drive off foreign boats in Peace time. About the sink Vietnam wood ship it's a bad lucky.
> 
> It seems the H981 oil rig will continue her jobs near water areas of XiSha/Paracel Islands, as i said Vietnam did not any island in Paracel islands, there's not ur waters so just give up or the water show will continue.


Your argument is very difficult to persuade.

PRC robbed Islands by force in 1974, until now, NO ONE recognized belong to China, but itself.

And in case we talk about your illegal operation which you said economic activity in our EEZ, which violated UNCLOS signed by PRC. This is not about disputed Islands.

PRC USED BIG FISHING SHIP (NOT COAST GUARD) to threaten and attacked with those terrorist actions on Vietnamese fishing ship to made us retreat, and then they lied about that like Vietnam is aggressive side.

Dirty liar, greedy invader ...


----------



## cnleio

Soryu said:


> Your argument is very difficult to persuade.
> 
> PRC robbed Islands by force in 1974, until now, NO ONE recognized belong to China, but itself.
> 
> And in case we talk about your illegal operation which you said economic activity in our EEZ, which violated UNCLOS signed by PRC. This is not about disputed Islands.
> 
> PRC USED BIG FISHING SHIP (NOT COAST GUARD) to threaten and attacked with those terrorist actions on Vietnamese fishing ship to made us retreat, and then they lied about that like Vietnam is aggressive side.
> 
> Dirty liar, greedy invader ...


In this case, if ur Vietnamese believe China invaded ur EEZ and BIG FISHING SHIP attacked ur fishing boat, do what Vietnamese is good at just shoot China ships , don't waste money & boats & time to face “terrorist actions”.

China is waiting for the opportunity for a long time , if not the game will continue.


----------



## Soryu

cnleio said:


> Interesting, what China government lie to the world ? I said China media has showed water cannon videos on the TV news, Water War and ramming videos on Chinese internet. China didn't refuse that. The XiSha/Paracel islands now controlled by China, it's the truth no need lie.
> 
> Our government said "Everything is normal" there's no any change in this local water areas, it's still a un-disputed areas for China, and H981 oil rig is legal work in XiSha waters of China. Ur Vietnam boats have invaded our water sovereignty, CHINA COAST GUARD just did the duty.
> 
> U said "Many countries supported Vietnamese peaceful solution" , how many countries support XiSha/Paracel islands belong to Vietnam, just tell me ???


LOL, buddy, you're even poor more. 

You believe on those poor propaganda because you're Chinese. 

I feel tired to said this again: PRC spokeman said: "there's no conflict in that area" at the begin. (I don't remember exactly words)
And after that, keep said we 're aggressive side, but all photo and videos show China ships spray water canon and rammed on Vietnamese ships, contrary with PRC words ...

Your coast guard duties are very ridiculous when they used big fishing ships not for fishing, but ram on Vietnamese ships (which keep fishing activity on traditional fishing area ), then said :"Vietnamese ship rammed on us and sunk by itself" .

Did you understand what did I said !?

"Peaceful solution" = "Paracel Islands belong to Vietnamese" !????? 
LOL, PRC propaganda is amazing, .......... 



cnleio said:


> In this case, if ur Vietnamese believe China invaded ur EEZ and BIG FISHING SHIP attacked ur fishing boat, do what Vietnamese is good at just shoot China ships , don't waste money & boats & time to face “terrorist actions”.
> 
> China is waiting for the opportunity for a long time , if not the game will continue.


So you amdit that your govt is liar and dirty aggressor !? Because you can't deny that fact.

And we know your dirty actions to made us fire first shoot, but you can't trick us, the game still on, your face will clear to the world, and lost of trust from the others, and US will take their chance to stop your advance.


----------



## Viet

CN.Black said:


> Good job,next time we should use a gun to sink viet boats.


do it and start the war!

Vietnam has made clear that if a war breaks out, the South China Sea will be shutdown immediately as it will turn into a battlefield.


----------



## cirr

Good job。

Keep it coming。


----------



## Viet

cnleio said:


> Vietnam has no any island in XiSha/Paracel Islands, and China government know ur Vietnam just wanna using this H981 rig case to make the un-dispute Paracel islands and waters controlled by China become a disputed areas between China and Vietnam.
> 
> If Vietnamese won't give up that stupid idea, the only thing China will do is to send more ships patrolling in this waters. The Attrition Warfare won't hurt China anymore, only damage our relationship.


you are a moron as you resort to aggression. You think you are BIG and Vietnam is SMALL. therefore you want to dictate.

you could have parts or whole of Paracels to get Vietnam as well as international recognition if you negotiated with Vietnam.
But NO, you rather seek violence.


----------



## cnleio

Soryu said:


> So you amdit that your govt is liar and dirty aggressor !? Because you can't deny that fact.
> 
> And we know your dirty actions to made us fire first shoot, but you can't trick us, the game still on, your face will clear to the world, and lost of trust from the others, and US will take their chance to stop your advance.



I tell ur Vietnamese government just play gamble in this case. If lose, u r nothing. U.S won't help u just like S.U didn't help u since 1979. There will be no any change in XiSha/Paracel islands, the only change will be Vietnam, whatever water-war or hot-war China will continue playing with u.

For a poor developing country, it's a stupid diplomacy to play game with foreign nation.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

cnleio said:


> *Did Vietnamese seize any island in XiSha islands/Paracel islands ? As far as i know ZERO !* How can Vietnam claim the sovereignty to XiSha islands/Paracel islands ???
> 
> The H981 oil rig reach Paracel islands much more closer than to Vietnam coast, it's in the water of XiSha/Paracel islands, in China water areas. So ur boats have invaded China's waters, u r the invader to XiSha/Paracel islands of China.
> 
> 
> First, we respect ur Vietnamese fisher's brave. The CHINA COAST GUARD also did their duty to keep ur boats far away from H981 oil rig.
> 
> Second, there's no War the water canon and ramming is the normal way to drive off foreign boats in Peace time. About the sink Vietnam wood ship it's a bad lucky.
> 
> It seems the H981 oil rig will continue her jobs near water areas of XiSha/Paracel Islands, as i said Vietnam did not any island in Paracel islands, there's not ur waters so just give up or the water show will continue.



Is it related to UNCLOS 1982 or not ???


----------



## cnleio

Viet said:


> you are a moron as you resort to aggression. You think you are BIG and Vietnam is SMALL. therefore you want to dictate.
> 
> you could have parts or whole of Paracels to get Vietnam as well as international recognition if you negotiated with Vietnam.
> But NO, you rather seek violence.


Me or Vietnam, there's only one moron ! The time will tell the truth.
If im the moron, it's just my personal loss. If Vietnam, it will be whole Vietnamese loss.


----------



## cirr

Viets need to grow their guts。

They should have made a U-turn of their ship and rammed straight into the Chinese ship that was in hot pursuit。

Only head-on collision is worthy of out Vietnamese friends。


----------



## VietHome

cnleio said:


> Interesting, what China government lie to the world ? I said China media has showed water cannon videos on the TV news, Water War and ramming videos on Chinese internet. China didn't refuse that. The XiSha/Paracel islands now controlled by China, it's the truth no need lie.
> 
> Our government said "Everything is normal" there's no any change in this local water areas, it's still a un-disputed areas for China, and H981 oil rig is legal work in XiSha waters of China. Ur Vietnam boats have invaded our water sovereignty, CHINA COAST GUARD just did the duty.
> 
> U said "Many countries supported Vietnamese peaceful solution" , how many countries support XiSha/Paracel islands belong to Vietnam, just tell me ???


China lied to the world by saying that the ship was sunk while trying to ram Chinese ship. Did you not watch the video?

Everything is normal is incorrect, China sent naval vessels, including its most modern LPD, Naval missile ships, AWACs, fighter and bomber jets to the area to intimidate Vietnam. people are injured, ship was sunk are not "normal"

Japan supports Vietnam, US supports Vietnam, Angela Merkel even slapped Xi in the face by showing this German kept of Ancient Chinese map without the Paracel and Spartly.











http://data:image/jpeg;base64,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

There is no XiSha/Paracel, the is only one *Paracel islands. *This is another new propaganda populated by Chinese media. They hope that people will start call the new name. Nope, not falling for the same old trick.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Alfa-Fighter

"India should declare whole indian oceans it is and stop Chinese chi passing though Indian Oceans" , this can possible if India started thinking like Chinese in grabbing seas. chinese arming ships because they know they can't fight a war , if fire bullet they get killed ... so they start ramming. Ramming is the sign of weakness.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cnleio

BoQ77 said:


> Is it related to UNCLOS 1982 or not ???


The islands controlled by one nation, outside 12 nautical miles is the territorial waters, outside territorial waters 200 nautical miles is the EEZ.



Viet said:


> do it and start the war!
> 
> Vietnam has made clear that if a war breaks out, the South China Sea will be shutdown immediately as it will turn into a battlefield.


GOOD ! How ur Vietnam Navy check whether the cargo ships belong to China/Korea/Japan/Other third nations ? If Vietnam shutdown the South China Sea or shot down cargo ships, it's a WAR signal to above East-Asia nations, most r export nations.

That time, Vientam will face the allied fleets. "Shutdown South China Sea" what a genius idea !!!


----------



## BoQ77

As we see, the bigger Chinese ships actively rammed to much smaller fishing boat into sink it.
You could always see that no one should do that, that's murder crime.



cnleio said:


> The islands controlled by one nation, outside 12 nautical miles is the territorial waters, outside territorial waters 200 nautical miles is the EEZ.



That means UNCLOS 1982 applied, right ?


----------



## cnleio

BoQ77 said:


> That means UNCLOS 1982 applied, right ?


The baby H981 in the EEZ of China XiSha islands, buddy.


----------



## xunzi

Soryu said:


> Dogs is Chinese ships, action like mad dogs, attacked Vietnmese fishing ships in their traditional fishing water area.
> Your aggressive is dirty and barbaric like mad animal.


Don't lie. Your boat is inside 3 miles we warned to not enter. You do not listen and you pay the price. Now you cry to the world? Only idiot will listen to your plead.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## VietHome

cnleio said:


> GOOD ! How ur Vietnam Navy check whether the cargo ships belong to China/Korea/Japan/Other third nations ? If Vietnam shutdown the South China Sea or shot down cargo ships, it's a WAR signal to above East-Asia nations, most r export nations.


The shipping lane will be shut down in case of war regardless, and the people who most like to do it are the Chinese. It is simple, Chinese ships require a large area of safety around the vessels because they copied American style of defense from attacks launched by Vietnam airplanes from the land. Thus, no civilian ship nor plane can go inside Chinese zone within 200 km radius. Making the 200 km dot for each Chinese ship that would be participating in the hypothetical war and we have the effective shutting down of the entire SCS's shipping lane.

Vietnam on the other hand doesn't use a large naval force and is not likely to be scare of sneak attack on our water so it is not likely to commence such defensive zone.



xunzi said:


> Don't lie. Your boat is inside 3 miles we warned to not enter. You do not listen and you pay the price. Now you cry to the world? Only idiot will listen to your plead.


cnleio sounds more reasonable than you. "Brute" and "barbaric" are the adjectives that describe this type of comment very well.


----------



## Soryu

xunzi said:


> Don't lie. Your boat is inside 3 miles we warned to not enter. You do not listen and you pay the price. Now you cry to the world? Only idiot will listen to your plead.


what's proof that our fishing ships inside your territorial water, so you did that barbaric action !?

LOL, it's went all media news, everyone know your aggressive ...


----------



## cnleio

Soryu said:


> Did I tell you: "US will help Vietnam take back Paracel Islands" !????
> 
> LOL, buddy, your argument keep bad and bad ... your country actions are dirty and evil, lack of righteousness to dare said the truth.
> 
> Mighty China has to lied for their actions, poor ...


Whatever u think here, the truth is the XiSha islands no any disputed were parts of China. If u trust China lie, why not send ur warships to Paracel Islands and send ur Vietnamese ppl landing there ?


----------



## Bastion-P

xunzi said:


> Don't lie. Your boat is inside 3 miles we warned to not enter. You do not listen and you pay the price. Now you cry to the world? Only idiot will listen to your plead.


Another liar. The location was 17nm from the oil rig.
You are too brainwashed.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Soryu

cnleio said:


> Whatever u think here, the truth is the XiSha islands no any disputed were parts of China. If u trust China lie, why not send ur warships to Paracel Islands and send ur Vietnamese ppl landing there ?


No, buddy, you're keep very bad argument ... 
You want to lick all SCS in your mouth, and you need reason, that why you made many aggressive actions with Philippines and Vietnam.
You want us fire a fisrt shoot, we're not idiot, your propaganda fail this time ...


----------



## BoQ77

For your information,
Vietnamese opinions :
1. Paracels Islands has not meet the criteria to have its own EEZ. Even if Vietnam occupied Paracels Islands, never claim for its EEZ. There are only 12 nm of territorial water
2. The occupation established by force to other ownerships cannot be used for territory claim. So to Vietnam, the Chinese occupation of Paracels Islands never be able to claim for even territorial water.
3. In case overlapping EEZ ( between Vietnam coast and Hainan islands coast ), the separated line should be negotiated.
based on the relative length of coastline ... to which Vietnamese coastline longer than Hainan coastline ...

To me: you are saying based on UNCLOS 1982, but wrong application, or not to mention that UNCLOS using

@cnleio: Did you acknowledge that China and Vietnam agreed to a separated line from Asia continent to the mouth of Tonkin Gulf for decade?

Do you know Incident of Tonkin Gulf which triggered several airborne operations of USA onto North of Vietnam since 1964 ? If yes, let check which way the USS Maddox warship approach and retreat from the site ? to me, it cruised just outside of the territorial water of the South coastline of Hainan island.



cnleio said:


> The baby H981 in the EEZ of China XiSha islands, buddy.


----------



## cnleio

VietHome said:


> The shipping lane will be shut down in case of war regardless, and the people who most like to do it is the Chinese. It is simple, Chinese ships require a large area of safety around the vessels because they copied American style of defense from attacks launched by Vietnam airplanes from the land. Thus, no civilian ship nor plane can go inside Chinese zone within 200 km radius. Making the 200 km dot for each Chinese ship that would be participating in the hypothetical war and we have the effective shutting down of the entire SCS's shipping lane.
> 
> Vietnam on the other hand don't use a large naval force and are not likely to be scare of sneak attack on our water so it is not likely to commence such defensive zone.


How many warships and subs Vietnam Navy have today ? *Cut off China EEZ, what a big joke for a small Vietnam Navy !* Yes, just do it even American will admire ur guys. 

If Vietnam wanna start 2nd Sino-Vietnam War, just go ahead.

BTW the cargo ships did not only transport Made in China goods, they also transport Made in Korea & Made in Japan to Europe/Middel East, when they back will carry Made in Europe etc.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## xunzi

Bastion-P said:


> Another liar. The location was 17nm from the oil rig.
> You are too brainwashed.


17nm is the rig location to Paracel. LOL


----------



## VietHome

cnleio said:


> How many warships and subs Vietnam Navy have today ? *Cut off China EEZ, what a big joke for a small Vietnam Navy !* Yes, just do it even American will admire ur guys.
> 
> If Vietnam wanna start 2nd Sino-Vietnam War, just go ahead.


What are you even talking about? You are not following my comment to reply at all. I'm talking about a 200 km defensive zone around each ship to prevent missile attack, not the 200 nm EEZ.


----------



## BoQ77

xunzi said:


> Don't lie. Your boat is inside 3 miles we warned to not enter. You do not listen and you pay the price. Now you cry to the world? Only idiot will listen to your plead.



Why 3nm ? No one could place a rig somewhere outside of their water and warning to other stay faraway from it.
Actual distance of Chinese harassment is from 8-17nm ...
It's any term else, but threaten the security of maritime navigation


----------



## xunzi

BoQ77 said:


> Why 3nm ? No one could place a rig somewhere outside of their water and warning to other stay faraway from it.
> Actual distance of Chinese harassment is from 8-17nm ...
> It's any term else, but threaten the security of maritime navigation


We set 1 mile but due to your uncooperative nature and harassment of our property, we increased to 3nm ensuring safety of the rig workers. Didn't you boast and posted pictures of your boat come close to our rig? What happen now, my friend? LOL

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Water Car Engineer

What drama in that area.


----------



## Bastion-P

xunzi said:


> 17nm is the rig location to Paracel. LOL


I'm tired of giving correct information to a brainwashed retard like you.
China Attacks, Sinks Vietnamese Fishing Vessel, Situation "Very Tense" | Zero Hedge

_*Chinese vessel attacks, sinks Vietnamese fishing boat with 10 crew members yday*

*Vietnamese crew rescued by other Vietnamese boats, newspaper says*

Incident occurred about 4pm 17 nautical miles from China’s Haiyang Shiyou-981 oil rig, newspaper reports

Vietnamese ship DNa 90152 operating out of Danang *encircled by 40 Chinese fishing vessels in waters Vietnam says is in its exclusive economic zone*, newspaper says
_
The oil rig at the time parked at new location 25 nautical miles east-southeast of Tri Ton Island.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cnleio

VietHome said:


> What are you even talking about? You are not following my comment to reply at all. I'm talking about a 200 km defensive zone around each ship to prevent missile attack, not the 200 nm EEZ.


Whatever military actions by Vietnam Navy in South China Sea, is a WAR signal for China. And it will be a new threat to other East Asia and South-east Asia nations.

Whatever Vietnam Navy will do in South China Sea, is a unnecessary provocation to China. In South-east Asia the Vientam is the only one close to China land border.


----------



## xunzi

Bastion-P said:


> I'm tired of giving correct information to a brainwashed retard like you.
> China Attacks, Sinks Vietnamese Fishing Vessel, Situation "Very Tense" | Zero Hedge
> 
> _*Chinese vessel attacks, sinks Vietnamese fishing boat with 10 crew members yday*
> 
> *Vietnamese crew rescued by other Vietnamese boats, newspaper says*
> 
> Incident occurred about 4pm 17 nautical miles from China’s Haiyang Shiyou-981 oil rig, newspaper reports
> 
> Vietnamese ship DNa 90152 operating out of Danang *encircled by 40 Chinese fishing vessels in waters Vietnam says is in its exclusive economic zone*, newspaper says
> _
> The oil rig at the time parked at new location 25 nautical miles east-southeast of Tri Ton Island.


You are providing a different incident from this one being talked.


----------



## Bastion-P

xunzi said:


> You are providing a different incident from this one being talked.


Only one fishing boat sank bro. We are all talking about that one.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## VietHome

cnleio said:


> Whatever military actions by Vietnam Navy in South China Sea, is a WAR signal for China. And it will be a new threat to other East Asia and South-east Asia nations.
> 
> Whatever Vietnam Navy will do in South China Sea, is a unnecessary provocation to China. In South-east Asia the Vientam is the only one close to China land border.


You sound so confident that the one firing the first shot would be Vietnam while all the evidences we have until now is that Chinese harassed, rammed, and sunk Vietnamese boats. Vietnam has shown remarkable restraint under Chinese's constant assaults. This line from Chinese media is like a scene from a bully constantly hitting a poor student while yelling "don't hit me, don't hit me, you don' dare hit me," while his supporters are telling the class that "the poor student is about to hit the bully, the poor student is about to hit the bully, everyone please side with the bully when that happens."

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## BoQ77

xunzi said:


> We set 1 mile but due to your uncooperative nature and harassment of our property, we increased to 3nm ensuring safety of the rig workers. Didn't you boast and posted pictures of your boat come close to our rig? What happen now, my friend? LOL



If that happened outside of 3nm ( ie. 8-10nm ) from the Oil Rig, now what ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cnleio

VietHome said:


> You sound so confident that the one firing the first shot would be Vietnam while all the evidences we have until now is that Chinese harassed, rammed, and sunk Vietnamese boats. Vietnam has shown remarkable restraint under Chinese's constant assaults. This line from Chinese media is like a scene from a bully constantly hitting a poor student while yelling "don't hit me, don't hit me, you don' dare hit me," while his supporters are telling the class that "the poor student is about to hit the bully, the poor student is about to hit the bully, everyone please side with the bully when that happens."


Less bullsh!t, more strength.


----------



## VietHome

cnleio said:


> Less bullsh!t, more strength.


It's strength to stand up to the overwhelming odds. What's more do you need to see?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cnleio

VietHome said:


> It's strength to stand up to the overwhelming odds. What's more do you need to see?


If Vietnamese don't know "GIVE UP", the TV news in China will show Water Game everyday.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## VietHome

cnleio said:


> If Vietnamese don't know "GIVE UP", the TV news in China will show Water Game everyday.


But "Giving Up" is not strength so you are talking in circle now.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Aepsilons

*Court hands China 6 month deadline in Philippines maritime case*




An international court has given China six months to respond to legal claims by the Philippines regarding disputes between the countries over the South China Sea.

The Philippines in March presented a 4,000-page “memorial” to the Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague, asking the tribunal to invalidate the “nine-dash line” – a demarcation on Chinese maps that includes much of the South China Sea and suggests that China claims most of the waters.

Court hands China 6 month deadline in Philippines maritime case - FT.com


----------



## Mao1949

Viet said:


> you are a moron as you resort to aggression. You think you are BIG and Vietnam is SMALL. therefore you want to dictate.
> 
> you could have parts or whole of Paracels to get Vietnam as well as international recognition if you negotiated with Vietnam.
> But NO, you rather seek violence.



China is BIG and Vietnam is SMALL. And we are dictating you. Why should we negotiate with a small power like Vietnam that has nothing to hurt us.


----------



## gambit

CN.Black said:


> Good job,next time we should use a gun to sink viet boats.


Is gunnery next on the PLAN's training syllabus ? Come to think of it, is gunnery next on the PLAAF's training syllabus as well ? First, it was a PLAAF fighter pilot who rammed a lumbering four engines prop jobber American plane, now the PLAN uses its ship to ram its opponent. What is Chinese for: 'Ramming speed...!!!'


----------



## Nav84

China does not deserve to be next super power because these kind of act..totally terrorising other nations..They have a make right environment in this region.


----------



## xunzi

BoQ77 said:


> If that happened outside of 3nm ( ie. 8-10nm ) from the Oil Rig, now what ?


There is not enough neutral independent source to verify your claim. This is the main problem with you Vietnamese. Your government is employing an international smear campaign to pain us as the aggressor and you as the victim when in fact, it is you who instigated everything when we clearly warned you to stay away and cooperate until we remove the rig in August.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Mao1949

gambit said:


> Is gunnery next on the PLAN's training syllabus ? Come to think of it, is gunnery next on the PLAAF's training syllabus as well ? First, it was a PLAAF fighter pilot who rammed a lumbering four engines prop jobber American plane, now the PLAN uses its ship to ram its opponent. What is Chinese for: 'Ramming speed...!!!'



Guns are more than enough to sink Vietnamese ships. Guns were enough for us to defeat the US in Korea.



Nav84 said:


> China does not deserve to be next super power because these kind of act..totally terrorising other nations..They have a make right environment in this region.



Obviously you have to 'deserve' it to be a 'superpower'

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

Nav84 said:


> China does not deserve to be next super power because these kind of act..totally terrorising other nations..They have a make right environment in this region.



We don't want to become a so-called super power。It is just not in our blood playing the role of a world police。

The US is welcome to keep the “honour” for as long as it pleases or can afford。

When ready, India is also welcome to take up the baton。

We just want what is rightfully ours。

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cirr

4500-tonne* CCG 1401* official induction today 05.06.2014







More to come，a lot more。


----------



## xesy

xunzi said:


> There is not enough neutral independent source to verify your claim. This is the main problem with you Vietnamese. Your government is employing an international smear campaign to pain us as the aggressor and you as the victim when in fact, it is you who instigated everything when we clearly warned you to stay away and cooperate until we remove the rig in August.


The deployment of the rig is clearly a civil operation, but China treats it like a military one. Vietnam hasn't taken any clear military actions but China has, regarding this incident, for example: moving troops to Vietnam-China border, bringing more warships to protect the rig, using fighters and helicopters to patrol the area around the rig.

Vietnam started a smear capaign against China to gain global supports. Saying Vietnam instigated the problem is wrong because, hell, China deployed the rig over Vietnam EEZ without even asking. While Vietnam continues to show more photos and clips of Chinese ships ramming and firing water cannon at Vietnamese ships, China keeps saying Vietnam is the aggressor without any evidence to back it up. A bunch of Vietnam ships have been damaged and had to be repaired back in the mainland. Does Chinese media report any damaged Chinese ships?

I think China has a similar mindset to this guy.


Mao1949 said:


> China is BIG and Vietnam is SMALL. And we are dictating you. Why should we negotiate with a small power like Vietnam that has nothing to hurt us.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Mao1949

xesy said:


> The deployment of the rig is clearly a civil operation, but China treats it like a military one. Vietnam hasn't taken any clear military actions but China has, regarding this incident, for example: moving troops to Vietnam-China border, bringing more warships to protect the rig, using fighters and helicopters to patrol the area around the rig.
> 
> Vietnam started a smear capaign against China to gain global supports. Saying Vietnam instigated the problem is wrong because, hell, China deployed the rig over Vietnam EEZ without even asking. While Vietnam continues to show more photos and clips of Chinese ships ramming and firing water cannon at Vietnamese ships, China keeps saying Vietnam is the aggressor without any evidence to back it up. A bunch of Vietnam ships have been damaged and had to be repaired back in the mainland. Does Chinese media report any damaged Chinese ships?
> 
> I think China has a similar mindset to this guy.



If you think naming and shaming China will work, then you clearly don't know China.


----------



## Rechoice

The new ship is complited, designed by Holland company.


----------



## l'ingénieur

If you don't want your boats to sink and fish peacefully, don't go fishing near the Chinese navy. All your going to do is provoke them.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Rechoice

l'ingénieur said:


> If you don't want your boats to sink and fish peacefully, don't go fishing near the Chinese navy. All your going to do is provoke them.



There is our sea EZZ, kid

Pak can permit China do that in your EZZ, but we not.


----------



## xesy

l'ingénieur said:


> If you don't want your boats to sink and fish peacefully, don't go fishing near the Chinese navy. All your going to do is provoke them.


Our fishermen know full well it's dangerous to go near Chinese ships, but there are reasons for them to do that.

Firstly, they are assigned to fish in those area. I believe they call that their traditional fishery field. Before the rig came, they fished there.
Secondly, they express their patriotism by ignoring Chinese banning of any Vietnam ships in 10nm around the rig. They call it "fish to hold the sea".
Thirdly, our gov doesn't tell them to stop. In fact they encourage fishermen to keep fishing like normal. I heard rumor that the military provide oil for ships that fish around the rig.


----------



## atatwolf

Only animals would attack helpless people. What did those Vietnamese do? It is just in the nature of the animal. That is why I think in case of war against China we should forget about rules of war.


----------



## Irfan Baloch

VietHome said:


> Contrary to the lies from Chinese media and leaders that Vietnamese boat "rammed the Chinese ship and sunk," this video clearly shown what happened in 05/26 when Chinese ships chased this Vietnamese boat with the intention to kill like a "wild animal." *This is indeed a barbaric action rarely seen from a state in the 21st century.*


seems you missed the American "RoboCruiser" that shot down an Iranian airliner flight 655 on purpose?

might is right.. this is a universal law
deal with it



DT1010 said:


> and do you know what your fellow countryman talk about this incident?
> "Vietnamese is invader, they attack us first, we didn't do anything, it's their fault, i repeat that we didn't ram their ship, they attack us first"


dont play in the hands of other powers, they wont come to save you and they wont loose a sleep over your losses

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Alfa-Fighter

atatwolf said:


> Only animals would attack helpless people. What did those Vietnamese do? It is just in the nature of the animal. That is why I think in case of war against China we should forget about rules of war.


Their is not rules of war with China , China Do this with India , in lake they Ram or make indian solider wet who are on petrol duty inside the lake, India bought Bigger and powerful boats and started make Chinese wet also started hit their boat , they understand and stop aggressive patrolling.

Indian learn the Chinese way , do exactly the same the way they do to you. They start crying and move back. bring bigger boat and RAM in their , thats is how they understand.


----------



## BoQ77

cnleio said:


> If Vietnamese don't know "GIVE UP", the TV news in China will show Water Game everyday.



You will never give up if others invaded your EEZ in East China Sea, right ?
So do us !!!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Alfa-Fighter

l'ingénieur said:


> If you don't want your boats to sink and fish peacefully, don't go fishing near the Chinese navy. All your going to do is provoke them.


go with bigger and powerful boats and hit the Chinese like indian did in Leh lake to Chinese , give them taste of their own medicine.


----------



## atatwolf

Alfa-Fighter said:


> Their is not rules of war with China , China Do this with India , iN lake they Ram or make indian solider wet who are on petrol duty inside the lake, India bought Bigger and spewer boat and started make Chinese wetland also started hit them , they understand and stop this.
> 
> Indian lean the cheese way , do exactly the same what they do to you then they start crying and back. bring bigger boat and RAM in their , thats how they understand.


Japanese understood that you can't play by the rules with an animal. If your enemy doesn't respect rules of war. You have to do everything to destroy the enemy.


----------



## sweetgrape

Rechoice said:


> There is our sea EZZ, kid
> 
> Pak can permit China do that in your EZZ, but we not.





BoQ77 said:


> You will never give up if others invaded your EEZ in East China Sea, right ?
> So do us !!!


Your EZZ? why it is your EZZ? there is much closer to China xisha islands than to Vietnam.




Alfa-Fighter said:


> "India should declare whole indian oceans it is and stop Chinese chi passing though Indian Oceans" , this can possible if India started thinking like Chinese in grabbing seas. chinese arming ships because they know they can't fight a war , if fire bullet they get killed ... *so they start ramming. Ramming is the sign of weakness.*





Alfa-Fighter said:


> g*o with bigger and powerful boats and hit the Chinese like indian did in Leh lake to Chinese* , give them taste of their own medicine.



Based on you previous comments, seems you were or are weak in Leh lake?

Mind to show the case you mention, that you did in Leh lake? I am very interesting in that


----------



## Pinoy

*China again rejects legal challenge*
Thursday, June 5th, 2014

*

*
*MANILA, Philippines –The United Nations arbitral tribunal has ordered China to defend its territorial claims in the South China Sea by submitting evidence within six months despite Beijing’s refusal to respond to the Philippines’ legal challenge to those sweeping claims.*

The UN Permanent Court of Arbitration said in a statement issued in The Hague on Tuesday that the arbitral tribunal had directed China to submit by Dec. 15 its response to the Philippine memorandum submitted on March 30, detailing its case that seeks to nullify the Chinese claims and clarify maritime entitlements in the disputed waters.

It was the first international case filed against China related to territorial disputes in the 3.5-million-square-kilometer sea where islands, islets, reefs and shoals are believed to be sitting atop vast oil and gas reserves.

*China has rejected the order, saying it has no plans to take part.*

Aside from China and the Philippines, Brunei, Malaysia, Taiwan and Vietnam claim overlapping parts of the South China Sea, with Beijing saying it has sovereignty over virtually all of the resource-rich waters. China’s disputes with the Philippines and Vietnam have worsened recently, especially after it deployed an oil rig early last month in waters also claimed by Hanoi, sparking violent anti-China protests in Vietnam.

*Next armed conflict*

There have been fears the territorial disputes could spark Asia’s next armed conflict, although analysts say a major fight is unlikely given that major instability could shatter the region’s bullish economies.

Beijing’s aggressive moves in the disputed waters, which straddle one of the world’s busiest sea lanes, were “dangerous conduct and intimidation” that rachets tension and could undermine the economically vibrant region, said US Secretary of Commerce Penny Pritzky, who is visiting Manila with American business executives.

*China has warned the United States to stop meddling.*

It has said all along it will not participate in the arbitration proceedings initiated by the Philippines in January last year, preferring a bilateral approach to resolve the conflicts.

Beijing informed the tribunal on May 21 that it “does not accept the arbitration initiated by the Philippines” and that its issuance of a comment on the case should “not be regarded as China’s acceptance of or participation in the proceedings.”

Philippine officials on Wednesday reiterated a call to China to join the arbitration as a peaceful and durable solution to resolve the long-raging territorial disputes.

*China’s stance unchanged*

Charles Jose, spokesman for the Department of Foreign Affairs, said, “We continue to urge China to reconsider its decision not to participate in the arbitration proceedings. We also wish to reiterate that arbitration is a peaceful, open and friendly resolution mechanism that offers a durable solution to the disputes in the South China Sea.”

*But China’s foreign ministry said on Wednesday that Beijing’s “stance of not accepting and not participating in the relevant Philippines’ arbitration case has not changed.”*

The Philippines is seeking confirmation of its right to exploit waters within a 370-km exclusive economic zone, as allowed under the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea, its lawyers have said.

In giving China time to respond to the Philippines’ filing, the tribunal said on Monday that it was fulfilling its obligation to assure each party “a full opportunity to be heard and to present its case.”

The UN tribunal issued the order after a meeting at the Peace Palace in The Hague, the Netherlands, on May 14 and 15, or a month and a half since Manila submitted its memorandum.

*Tribunal’s jurisdiction*

As the tribunal described it, the document covers “matters relating to the jurisdiction of the arbitral tribunal, the admissibility of the Philippines’ claim, as well as the merits of the dispute.”

*Noting China’s May 21 rejection, the tribunal suggested it would continue hearing the Philippine complaint even without Beijing’s involvement.*

“The arbitral tribunal will determine the further course of the proceedings, including the need for, and scheduling of any other written submissions and hearings, at an appropriate later stage, after seeking the views of the parties,” the tribunal said.

*The Philippine case asks the UN tribunal to invalidate China’s “nine-dash-line” claim over the South China Sea. That refers to a rough Chinese demarcation on its official maps of its territorial claims that cover virtually the entire South China.*

The Philippines charges that the nine-dash-line claim is an “excessive declaration of territory” that extends well beyond China’s exclusive economic zone, encroaching on the West Philippine Sea, part of the South China Sea within Manila’s own economic exclusion zone.

If China continues to shun the arbitral panel, the tribunal is likely to schedule a hearing and rule based solely on the Philippines’ pleading.

“China has a right to be heard, that’s why the court issued the procedural order. If they will still refuse to participate, the court might decide based on the Philippines’ submission,” Jose said.

*International support*

*The Philippines’ legal action has gained support from the international community, including allies the United States and Japan, for being a peaceful means to resolve the increasingly tense territorial disputes in the South China Sea.*

The Philippine arbitration case is closely watched by the other claimant states, including Vietnam, which last month said it was considering legal action against China after Beijing moved a deep-water oil rig into the East Sea, part of the South China Sea within Hanoi’s exclusive economic zone.

China earlier said that the Philippine legal action has “seriously damaged” relations between Manila and Beijing.–_With a report from AP_

UN court tells Beijing: Prove your sea claims | Inquirer Global Nation

------------------------------------------

China is clearly a coward for backing out in the international tribunal. They want to settle the issue by bullying and brute force not through the peaceful means of arbitration based on international law. They are trying to deceive the world by claiming excessive territories based on their own flimsy historical accounts. China knows their deceitful claim could not win in international arbitration and obviously, would not want to participate to lose. Especially because if it lose the case to the Philippines, it will automatically lose to the other claimants.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## xyxmt

VietHome said:


> Contrary to the lies from Chinese media and leaders that Vietnamese boat "rammed the Chinese ship and sunk," this video clearly shown what happened in 05/26 when Chinese ships chased this Vietnamese boat with the intention to kill like a "wild animal." This is indeed a barbaric action rarely seen from a state in the 21st century.



if you stop a car on a runway when an airplane is taking off, you will get crushed so dont blame it on the plane.
a boat is easier to turn, accelerate and decelerate while a moving ship cannot. It clearly shows boats were playing hookie with ship so they get a hickey.


----------



## itaskol

UN court is a joke.
in fact the UN is a joke

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## sweetgrape

Pinoy said:


> China is clearly a coward for backing out in the international tribunal. They want to settle the issue by bullying and brute force not through the peaceful means of arbitration based on international law. They are trying to deceive the world by claiming excessive territories based on their own flimsy historical accounts. China knows their deceitful claim could not win in international arbitration and obviously, would not want to participate to lose. Especially because if it lose the case to the Philippines, it will automatically lose to the other claimants.


A thief accuse the owner of stealing, hehe.

The "coward" PLAN is there, where is "brave" Philippine?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Pinoy

itaskol said:


> UN court is a joke.
> in fact the UN is a joke


China always using historical claim. This is the 20th century, you can use history but to claim what is you thought was yours before is totally BS. War changes the face of the earth many times. Unless China wanted to start one, then let it be and hope China will be the same after that.

That is why nations need international laws to follow.



sweetgrape said:


> A thief accuse the owner of stealing, hehe.
> 
> The "coward" PLAN is there, where is "brave" Philippine?


Philippine claims are based on UNCLOS stupid dimwit. Historical records not recognized by the international community remains a fiction.. wake up...go to school and let your mind evolve... you're just too fed up by your Commie government.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## xesy

xyxmt said:


> if you stop a car on a runway when an airplane is taking off, you will get crushed so dont blame it on the plane.
> a boat is easier to turn, accelerate and decelerate while a moving ship cannot. It clearly shows boats were playing hookie with ship so they get a hickey.


But if the airplane takes off in the highway and crush the car there, then the airpane is to blame. Even Chinese media report that Chinese ships chase Vietnamese ships around, so it's not like Vietnam ships stop in front of Chinese ships to be rammed, ok? 

Also you must understand that while a boat is easier to manuver, its engine is much weaker than the steel ship 5 times its size. In the clip, you can see that there was another Chinese ship chasing another Vietnam boat to the left of the sunken boat, blocking its left manuver. Also in the original clip with sound, there were no sound or any means of warning before Chinese ship rammed Vietnam boat.

And to think that a few days ago China lied with a bold face: Vietnam boat tried to ram Chinese ship and sunk.


----------



## xyxmt

xesy said:


> But if the airplane takes off in the highway and crush the car there, then the airpane is to blame. Even Chinese media report that Chinese ships chase Vietnamese ships around, so it's not like Vietnam ships stop in front of Chinese ships to be rammed, ok?
> 
> Also you must understand that while a boat is easier to manuver, its engine is much weaker than the steel ship 5 times its size. In the clip, you can see that there was another Chinese ship chasing another Vietnam boat to the left of the sunken boat, blocking its left manuver. Also in the original clip with sound, there were no sound or any means of warning before Chinese ship rammed Vietnam boat.
> 
> And to think that a few days ago China lied with a bold face: Vietnam boat tried to ram Chinese ship and sunk.



boat could have moved, boats accelerate much quicker than a ship, those boats intentionally stopped in front of the ship, yes ship is to be blamed to because they didnt stop...simply put they were both trying to bully each other and both are to be blamed


----------



## Raphael

This shoddy pinoy journalism is getting basic facts wrong and really isn't capable of articulating the legal issues behind this dispute. For something marginally more informative:
Court hands China 6 month deadline in Philippines maritime case - FT.com



> The Permanent Court of Arbitration is one of several bodies that arbitrates cases related to the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (Unclos). While China is a signatory, it says South China Sea disputes are exempted because of a 2006 declaration it made to the UN.
> 
> *The tribunal cannot determine sovereignty of the islands, shoals, reefs and rocks in the South China Sea at the centre of disputes involving China, Vietnam, the Philippines, Malaysia, Taiwan and Brunei*.



This dispute is completely beyond the jurisdiction of the Hague-based PCA, which isn't even related to the UN or its subordinate institutions like the ICJ. OP's article must have been fact-checked by a monkey or something.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## seven7seven

These tribunals mean nothing to the big powers of the World. USA does what it pleases, even if it goes against the UN, and now China is starting to learn from the US that you use the UN, when it pleases you. China will keep salami slicing and making new facts on the ground to take what they want in SCS. Only way they can be stopped is US willing to go into an all out war with China to stop them, and even then, USA is not guaranteed to be victorious in stopping China in their back yard. USA definitely won't do this to protect Vietnamese or Philipines rights and most probably not Japan's either. USA can only talk a good fight and an Asian pivot, but they lack the resources and political will to take on China in their homecourt. Vietnam and Philipines need to comprehend the paradigm shift in World power and geopolitics and start getting behind the superpower you live next to and not the one thousands of miles away. The rest of Asia, bar Japan and India, understand this. I'm afraid Vietnam and Philipines will be the countries made an example of when the Dragon finally decides to show its teeth.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Pinoy

Well a twisted mind can't think right. China brought this upon themselves and now the Philippines is being blamed for putting things in the right perspective and the proper forum like a civilized country should do.

Ambiguity about the extent of China’s maritime claims in the South China Sea has been a key source of concern in this dispute. In the 1990s, China issued a series of domestic laws detailing its maritime claims under the U.N. Convention on the Law of the Sea, including 12 nautical mile territorial seas and 200 nautical mile exclusive economic zones (EEZ). Nevertheless, Chinese maps continue to contain a “nine-dashed line” around the South China Sea. The line first appeared on an official map produced by the Republic of China in 1947. After 1949, China continued to use the line on its official maps, but never defined what the line included or excluded.


----------



## xesy

xyxmt said:


> boat could have moved, boats accelerate much quicker than a ship, those boats intentionally stopped in front of the ship, yes ship is to be blamed to because they didnt stop...simply put they were both trying to bully each other and both are to be blamed


I think the boat was maintaining speed, compared to the other 2 ships on its left. It was either the fishermen did not expect the Chinese would ram that hard or the Chinese ship accelerated before they could react and manuver. You know, our fishermen are mostly family business. They receive no school in operating a boat so slow reaction time may be understandable.


----------



## Jlaw

itaskol said:


> UN court is a joke.
> in fact the UN is a joke


 
China is part of P5. It may be a joke, it allows P5 members to be above international laws.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Pinoy

sweetgrape said:


> Don't cry, babby-sitter.
> 
> Hehe, you think you are smarter than me? loser country.


A country with a very strong military challenges a country with a very weak one, and makes it look like it is the one being aggrieved. This is the best display of cowardice in the history of mankind. Bravo China, for adding another shame to your own existence and for showing the world your true colors!


----------



## Jlaw

Pinoy said:


> A country with a very strong military challenges a country with a very weak one, and makes it look like it is the one being aggrieved. This is the best display of cowardice in the history of mankind. Bravo China, for adding another shame to your own existence and for showing the world your true colors!


 
Phillipines have been colonized for eons by Spanish, Chinese, now Americans. You should get used to it by now.


----------



## $@rJen

itaskol said:


> UN court is a joke.
> in fact the UN is a joke



why??? Just because UN is disagreeing with China????? if UN today agreed with china then you'll kiss the knee of the UN you know.... Dude you're a joke , don't make no more jokes k..

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## pursuit of happiness

itaskol said:


> UN court is a joke.
> in fact the UN is a joke


--
and chinas maps are ?



sarjenprabhu said:


> why??? Just because UN is standing against China????? if UN today agreed with china then you'll kiss the knee of the UN you know.... Dude you're a joke , don't make no more jokes k..


--
UN not standing against china ..
they said prove it that it yours...
chines now have to submit their so called MAPS .....
it will be a g8 fun ....
--
if UN is joke .. china is one of 5 jokers .. is it like that?



itaskol said:


> we join the organization to protect our interrest. not to obey stupid rules.
> you just $hit of $wine.


--
protect your interest not at cost of others 
you wil reported fo r abusive lang



Jlaw said:


> Phillipines have been colonized for eons by Spanish, Chinese, now Americans. You should get used to it by now.


--
shall i call japanese by that for you then ,..



Jlaw said:


> China is part of P5. It may be a joke, it allows P5 members to be above international laws.


--
now this is joke

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Pinoy

Jlaw said:


> Phillipines have been colonized for eons by Spanish, Chinese, now Americans. You should get used to it by now.


Look who’s talking, China the bully provoking smaller neighbors for her vague territorial claims that fails in accordance with international laws. If you claim those islands/reefs as yours, FIGHT for it DIPLOMATICALLY in UN court.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cnleio

Play dance with us, we r CHINA COAST GUARD 
 (Some China Cost Guard ships)

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## sweetgrape

Pinoy said:


> A country with a very strong military challenges a country with a very weak one, and makes it look like it is the one being aggrieved. This is the best display of cowardice in the history of mankind. Bravo China, for adding another shame to your own existence and for showing the world your true colors!


You mean, you are weak, China is strong, so even you steal our island, China shouldn't do something? 

Keep crying, idiot, who care you, hehe!


----------



## cnleio

Play dance with us, we r CHINA COAST GUARD 
(Some China Cost Guard ships)

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## VietHome

sweetgrape said:


> Your EZZ? why it is your EZZ? there is much closer to China xisha islands than to Vietnam.


The Paracel islands are not owned by China, it was taken by force from Chinese in 1974 while Vietnam has a mountain of documents from Vietnamese, intentional and Chinese sources. Both Vietnam and international sources show maps that Vietnam has own these islands for several hundred years. Vietnam sources have both maps and old documents from bureaucrats reporting from their administration of the islands. Both old Chinese and international maps show China's territory stops at Hainan islands. France and Japan after administrating the islands returned it to Vietnam and South Vienam had been administrating them until China took Paracel in 1974. Whatever Chinese source showing that Japan was forced to return the islands to China was invalid on the mere fact that China had not own the islands prior to Japan's occupation of Vietnam. Therefore, the islands could not be given to a third unrelated country but Vietnam. South Vietnam was given control of the islands later with the Geneva Accords in 1954 in which the PRC was a signatory, so this point is effectively moot. The document from North Vietnam's leader Pham Van Dong in 1974 is invalid on the mere fact that the Paracel was not under North Vietnam control at the time so it could not give away what it does not own. There are also two other points making the document invalid: the document did not say specifically about giving away any territory; and North Vietnamese Constitution at the time required the General Assembly vote on any territory alteration. Thus, this point is also moot. China's sole claim of the islands is the fact that they are controlling it, but China also claims the Senkaku controlled by Japan at the moment. So by making this point, PRC is talking on both sides of the mouth, worthy of ridicule from the intentional audience.

Even with the assumption that China now controls the Paracel, Trition island, the one in question that China uses the 17 nm argument is not habitable and is not big enough under UNCLOS to warrant a 200 nm EEZ, only 12 nm around it's edges. Thus, packing an oil rig outside of Triton at 17 nm is still outside of Chinese territorial water under this assumption. With this action, China has broken UNCLOS, a document it signed.

Even with the assumption that China can now claim Triton is worthy of 200 nm EEZ because of magic, China is still in violation of the 2002 agreement with Asean which discourages all parties unilaterally raising the tension in the SCS. PRC did exactly that by moving the oil rig in and building an airfield in the Spratly islands. Although this agreement is not legally binding, this action shows that China has broken all agreement it has signed with the be it the UN or ASEAN to reach this point. It is the proof that China is not a trust worthy and reasonable party to work with in the conflict, in layman term, China is a liar.



xyxmt said:


> if you stop a car on a runway when an airplane is taking off, you will get crushed so dont blame it on the plane.
> a boat is easier to turn, accelerate and decelerate while a moving ship cannot. It clearly shows boats were playing hookie with ship so they get a hickey.


You watch the video again. The fishing boat was trying to run away from Chinese ships and was breaking away a couple times until the much bigger ship caught up and rammed it. Small wooden boat cannot out-run a steel ship so you implication that the fishing ship "intentionally" slowed down to get hit from the Chinese ship is both baseless and hilariously sad at the same time. I'm not sure if I'm sad at our attempt to defense the indefensible or that you, as an Pakistani's flagged person would go all out to defense a tricky and aggressive nation like China. Is Chinese's yuan and military toys so important for Pakistan that people there accept to be Chinese shills so that they can bully a nation that has no connection or done nothing wrong to Pakistan; and a nation that actually treats Muslim well unlike what China is doing in Uyghur? Is a person's conscience that cheap to buy?

That question goes to all the Pakistan's posters here. In addition, to what extent will the Pakistani people continue to support China? Will you still cheer for China if Chinese ships shoot at innocent fishermen tomorrow?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

Pinoy said:


> *China again rejects legal challenge*
> Thursday, June 5th, 2014
> 
> *
> 
> *
> *MANILA, Philippines –The United Nations arbitral tribunal has ordered China to defend its territorial claims in the South China Sea by submitting evidence within six months despite Beijing’s refusal to respond to the Philippines’ legal challenge to those sweeping claims.*
> 
> The UN Permanent Court of Arbitration said in a statement issued in The Hague on Tuesday that the arbitral tribunal had directed China to submit by Dec. 15 its response to the Philippine memorandum submitted on March 30, detailing its case that seeks to nullify the Chinese claims and clarify maritime entitlements in the disputed waters.
> It was the first international case filed against China related to territorial disputes in the 3.5-million-square-kilometer sea where islands, islets, reefs and shoals are believed to be sitting atop vast oil and gas reserves.
> 
> *China has rejected the order, saying it has no plans to take part.*
> 
> Aside from China and the Philippines, Brunei, Malaysia, Taiwan and Vietnam claim overlapping parts of the South China Sea, with Beijing saying it has sovereignty over virtually all of the resource-rich waters. China’s disputes with the Philippines and Vietnam have worsened recently, especially after it deployed an oil rig early last month in waters also claimed by Hanoi, sparking violent anti-China protests in Vietnam.
> 
> *Next armed conflict*
> 
> There have been fears the territorial disputes could spark Asia’s next armed conflict, although analysts say a major fight is unlikely given that major instability could shatter the region’s bullish economies.
> 
> Beijing’s aggressive moves in the disputed waters, which straddle one of the world’s busiest sea lanes, were “dangerous conduct and intimidation” that rachets tension and could undermine the economically vibrant region, said US Secretary of Commerce Penny Pritzky, who is visiting Manila with American business executives.
> 
> *China has warned the United States to stop meddling.*
> 
> It has said all along it will not participate in the arbitration proceedings initiated by the Philippines in January last year, preferring a bilateral approach to resolve the conflicts.
> 
> Beijing informed the tribunal on May 21 that it “does not accept the arbitration initiated by the Philippines” and that its issuance of a comment on the case should “not be regarded as China’s acceptance of or participation in the proceedings.”
> 
> Philippine officials on Wednesday reiterated a call to China to join the arbitration as a peaceful and durable solution to resolve the long-raging territorial disputes.
> 
> *China’s stance unchanged*
> 
> Charles Jose, spokesman for the Department of Foreign Affairs, said, “We continue to urge China to reconsider its decision not to participate in the arbitration proceedings. We also wish to reiterate that arbitration is a peaceful, open and friendly resolution mechanism that offers a durable solution to the disputes in the South China Sea.”
> 
> *But China’s foreign ministry said on Wednesday that Beijing’s “stance of not accepting and not participating in the relevant Philippines’ arbitration case has not changed.”*
> 
> The Philippines is seeking confirmation of its right to exploit waters within a 370-km exclusive economic zone, as allowed under the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea, its lawyers have said.
> 
> In giving China time to respond to the Philippines’ filing, the tribunal said on Monday that it was fulfilling its obligation to assure each party “a full opportunity to be heard and to present its case.”
> 
> The UN tribunal issued the order after a meeting at the Peace Palace in The Hague, the Netherlands, on May 14 and 15, or a month and a half since Manila submitted its memorandum.
> 
> *Tribunal’s jurisdiction*
> 
> As the tribunal described it, the document covers “matters relating to the jurisdiction of the arbitral tribunal, the admissibility of the Philippines’ claim, as well as the merits of the dispute.”
> 
> *Noting China’s May 21 rejection, the tribunal suggested it would continue hearing the Philippine complaint even without Beijing’s involvement.*
> 
> “The arbitral tribunal will determine the further course of the proceedings, including the need for, and scheduling of any other written submissions and hearings, at an appropriate later stage, after seeking the views of the parties,” the tribunal said.
> 
> *The Philippine case asks the UN tribunal to invalidate China’s “nine-dash-line” claim over the South China Sea. That refers to a rough Chinese demarcation on its official maps of its territorial claims that cover virtually the entire South China.*
> 
> The Philippines charges that the nine-dash-line claim is an “excessive declaration of territory” that extends well beyond China’s exclusive economic zone, encroaching on the West Philippine Sea, part of the South China Sea within Manila’s own economic exclusion zone.
> 
> If China continues to shun the arbitral panel, the tribunal is likely to schedule a hearing and rule based solely on the Philippines’ pleading.
> 
> “China has a right to be heard, that’s why the court issued the procedural order. If they will still refuse to participate, the court might decide based on the Philippines’ submission,” Jose said.
> 
> *International support*
> 
> *The Philippines’ legal action has gained support from the international community, including allies the United States and Japan, for being a peaceful means to resolve the increasingly tense territorial disputes in the South China Sea.*
> 
> The Philippine arbitration case is closely watched by the other claimant states, including Vietnam, which last month said it was considering legal action against China after Beijing moved a deep-water oil rig into the East Sea, part of the South China Sea within Hanoi’s exclusive economic zone.
> 
> China earlier said that the Philippine legal action has “seriously damaged” relations between Manila and Beijing.–_With a report from AP_
> 
> UN court tells Beijing: Prove your sea claims | Inquirer Global Nation
> 
> ------------------------------------------
> 
> China is clearly a coward for backing out in the international tribunal. They want to settle the issue by bullying and brute force not through the peaceful means of arbitration based on international law. They are trying to deceive the world by claiming excessive territories based on their own flimsy historical accounts. China knows their deceitful claim could not win in international arbitration and obviously, would not want to participate to lose. Especially because if it lose the case to the Philippines, it will automatically lose to the other claimants.




Strongly agree with you.

China has only big mouth . The historical evidences are not on their side. So, they are very afraid of the international court.

This is a Chinese map published by the Shanghai Publishing House, in the Qing Dynasty.

On the map, Where is the Paracel Islands, Spratly Islands? Where is so-called "nine dotted line"?


----------



## sweetgrape

VietHome said:


> The Paracel islands are not owned by China, it was taken by force from Chinese in 1974 while Vietnam has a mountain of documents from Vietnamese, intentional and Chinese sources. Both Vietnam and international sources show maps that Vietnam has own these islands for several hundred years. Vietnam sources have both maps and old documents from bureaucrats reporting from their administration of the islands. Both old Chinese and international maps show China's territory stops at Hainan islands. France and Japan after administrating the islands returned it to Vietnam and South Vienam had been administrating them until China took Paracel in 1974. Whatever Chinese source showing that Japan was forced to return the islands to China was invalid on the mere fact that China had not own the islands prior to Japan's occupation of Vietnam. Therefore, the islands could not be given to a third unrelated country but Vietnam. South Vietnam was given control of the islands later with the Geneva Accords in 1954 in which the PRC was a signatory, so this point is effectively moot. The document from North Vietnam's leader Pham Van Dong in 1974 is invalid on the mere fact that the Paracel was not under North Vietnam control at the time so it could not give away what it does not own. There are also two other points making the document invalid: the document did not say specifically about giving away any territory; and North Vietnamese Constitution at the time required the General Assembly vote on any territory alteration. Thus, this point is also moot. China's sole claim of the islands is the fact that they are controlling it, but China also claims the Senkaku controlled by Japan at the moment. So by making this point, PRC is talking on both sides of the mouth, worthy of ridicule from the intentional audience.
> 
> Even with the assumption that China now controls the Paracel, Trition island, the one in question that China uses the 17 nm argument is not habitable and is not big enough under UNCLOS to warrant a 200 nm EEZ, only 12 nm around it's edges. Thus, packing an oil rig outside of Triton at 17 nm is still outside of Chinese territorial water under this assumption. With this action, China has broken UNCLOS, a document it signed.
> 
> Even with the assumption that China can now claim Triton is worthy of 200 nm EEZ because of magic, China is still in violation of the 2002 agreement with Asean which discourages all parties unilaterally raising the tension in the SCS. PRC did exactly that by moving the oil rig in and building an airfield in the Spratly islands. Although this agreement is not legally binding, this action shows that China has broken all agreement it has signed with the be it the UN or ASEAN to reach this point. It is the proof that China is not a trust worthy and reasonable party to work with in the conflict, in layman term, China is a liar.


Bored to read such much boring hollow word from discreditable Vietnamese, Show the proof, OK.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ephone

If we put China's fate on a so-called court, China should just put her hands up surrendering.

Remember, the korean war was authorized and sponsored by the so-called u.n.

Remember the court from WTO?

China has absolute legal and clear reason for reduce rare earth output due to its heavy pollution to our land. In addition, other countries also have them in plenty. You know what we got:It says China violates international policies and need keep producing them, while other countries can stop doing the dirty work and China need keep polluting herself.

What kind of fxxked-up justice is here??? Of course, when we see those judges, no wonder the result since they are all from the west!!!

So those courts need get themselves fxxk-off before I see Chinese judges there.



Pinoy said:


> China always using historical claim. This is the 20th century, you can use history but to claim what is you thought was yours before is totally BS. War changes the face of the earth many times. Unless China wanted to start one, then let it be and hope China will be the same after that.
> 
> That is why nations need international laws to follow.
> 
> 
> Philippine claims are based on UNCLOS stupid dimwit. Historical records not recognized by the international community remains a fiction.. wake up...go to school and let your mind evolve... you're just too fed up by your Commie government.


----------



## VietHome

sweetgrape said:


> Bored to read such much boring hollow word from discreditable Vietnamese, Show the proof, OK.



It's your fault for not reading my piece as I've talked about this letter already. If you want to read a longer explanation, here it is:

Situation:

On September 4, 1958 Chinese Premier Zhou Enlai declared to the world China’s decision regarding the 12 nautical mile territorial waters from mainland China, which also included a map clearly depicting sea borders and sea territories (which also included the two archipelagos Paracel and Spratly or Hoang Sa and Truong Sa).

Prime Minister Pham Van Dong representing the Democratic Republic of Vietnam (North Vietnam) affirmed this declaration from China regarding Chinese ownership of the archipelagos in the Eastern Sea (South China Sea). The diplomatic note was written on September 14 and was publicized on Nhan Dan newspaper on September 22, 1958.

The content of the letter is as follows:

We would like to inform you so that you may be clear that the Government of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam has noted and support the September 4, 1958 declaration by the People’s Republic of China regarding territorial waters of China. The government of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam respects this decision and will direct the proper government agencies to respect absolutely the 12 nautical mile territorial waters of China in all dealings with the People’s Republic of China on the sea. We would like to send our sincere regards.


Analysis in Modern Journal:

The above declaration is not valid because before 1975, the Democratic Republic of Vietnam (North Vietnam) did not control these islands. At that time, these islands were under the control of the Republic of Vietnam (South Vietnam) who always asserted Vietnamese sovereignty over these two archipelagos. The Revolutionary Government of the Republic of Vietnam also made no declaration that jeopardized this sovereignty. According to the lawyer and author Monique Chemillier-Gendreau:
“In this context, declarations or any viewpoints given by the North Vietnamese government is not effective when it comes to sovereignty. This was not a government that had authority over these archipelagos. One may not renounce what one has no authority over….”

A second reason from a legal perspective is that at that time North Vietnam was not a party in the conflict. Before 1975, the countries and territories involved in the conflict included: China, Taiwan, South Vietnam, and the Philippines. Therefore, declarations made by North Vietnam may be seen as declarations of a third party, which had no effect on the conflict itself.

Supposing that the Democratic Republic of Vietnam (North) and the Republic of Vietnam (South) were one country, then based on international law, this declaration is also invalid. However, some has espoused the doctrine of “estoppel” in order to argue that this declaration has validity and Vietnam cannot go back on its words.

According to international law, there is no other legal bar that creates obligation for those who make unilateral declaration other than “estoppel”. Estoppel is a principle in which a country cannot say or do in contrast to what was said or done before. In other words, “one cannot at the same time blow hot and cold.” However, estoppel does not mean that a country is obligated to whatever it declares.

The estoppel doctrine had its beginning in English law, and was later brought into international law. The main purpose is to prevent countries from benefitting from its dishonest actions, and hurting other countries. Therefore, estoppel must meet the following criteria:

1. The declaration or action must be taken by a representative of a country in a clear and unequivocal manner.

2. The country that claims “estoppel” must prove that based on that declaration or action, there are actions or inactions being carried out by that country which constitutes “reliance”, as is called in English and American law.

3. The country claiming “estoppel” also has to prove that based on the declaration of the other country, it has suffered damage, or that the other country has benefitted when making that declaration.

4. Some judgments demand that this declaration must be made in a continous manner over time.

In addition, if the declaration has the characteristic of a promise, which means that the country declares that it will or will not do something, it must have true intention of wanting to be obligated by that promise, and truly wants to execute that promise.

The estoppel doctrine has many precedents in international courts and countries who have made certain declarations have found to not be obligated to follow them because not all the conditions are met.

Applying these criteria of estoppel to the declaration of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam, we can see that conditions 2 and 3 are missing. In the years 1956, 1958, and 1965, China did not have any attitude or make any changes in its attitude based on North Vietnam’s declaration. China also cannot prove that it suffered damage for relying on that declaration. North Vietnam did not benefit in any way from making that declaration. At that time, Vietnam and China saw themselves as close comrades and friends. The declaration made by PM Pham Van Dong was based on that friendship. Moreover, the wording of the declaration does not clearly and unequivocally affirm Chinese ownership of the Paracel Islands. The letter only states: “The government of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam respects this decision (the decision to determine the 12 nautical mile territorial waters of China), and will direct the proper government agencies to respect absolutely the 12 nautical mile territorial waters of China….”

The declaration of PM Pham Van Dong may also be understood as a unilateral promise, a declaration of intention. In fact, this is a promise to respect the decision of China in its determination of sea territories, and a promise to order national agencies to respect Chinese territories.

If it is a mere promise, then it is even more difficult to obligate a country to follow that promise. The International Court has provided one more condition to make a promise obligatory: the true intention of the country making that promise. That is, whether that country really wants to be obligated to its promise or not. In order to determine this intention, the court examines every event surrounding the declaration, to see in what context and circumstances was the declaration made. Moreover, if the court sees that the country can obligate itself through signing agreements with the other country, then the declaration is not needed, and the court will conclude that the country making the declaration does not truly want to be obligated to that declaration. Therefore, the declaration does not have an obligatory characteristic.

----------------------------------------------

In this case, when PM Pham Van Dong declared that Vietnam will respect Chinese sea territories, he did not intend to speak of ownership of the Paracel and Spratly Islands. He made this declaration in urgent circumstances, in which the war with the United States was escalating, American Fleet 7 was carrying out activites on the Taiwan Strait threatening China. He had to immediately voice support of China in order to counter against American threat.

The 1965 declaration of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam was in the same manner. The motivation for that declaration was an urgent situation of danger in Vietnam. This is a declaration that has political not legal characteristics.

Even the condition of making declaration continuously and over time is not satisfied when it comes to the three declarations of North Vietnam. Estoppel doctrine is only applied if we consider North Vietnam and The Socialist Republic of Vietnam as one; and even France during the colonial period, and the Republic of Vietnam (South Vietnam) as the same entity as the present Vietnam. If we consider the Democratic Republic of Vietnam (North Vietnam) as a separate country, then estoppel cannot be applied because, as stated above, the declaration will be seen as a declaration made by a country that does not have authority over territories being disputed. Therefore, if Vietnam is seen as one single entity from history until the present, then the three declarations made by North Vietam are only statements that carry political meaning during wartimes, compared to the attitude and viewpoint of Vietnam in general from the 17th century until the present.

In summary, the declaration that we are analyzing is missing many factors that allow for estoppel to be applied. The factors of reliance and intention are very significant. If the reliance factor does not exist in order to limit the application of estoppel, countries will be prevented in making their foreign policies. They will be forced to follow out-dated ways to execute their foreign policies. When conditions change, the foreign policy of the other country changes, the foreign policy of this country must also change. It is normal for countries to be friends one moment and then turn into enemies the next.

As for unilateral promises without true intention of following, they are no more than empty promises, similar to those of politicans and candidates in political elections. In the international arena, the principle of sovereignty is very important. Outside international procedures and the articles of Jus Congens, there is no law that obligates a country contrary to its wishes, when it is not causing damage to another country. Therefore, the intention of the country has a decisive role in determining obligation of a unilateral promise.


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

I am not enough time to read all comments here, but it's a big mistake if we Vietnamese talk to the chinese about int'l justice. In the history of Vietnam, we just forced them to abandon their intention ONLY when we killed more than half of chinese troops.
I think now it is not different.


----------



## GR!FF!N

Raphael said:


> This dispute is completely beyond the jurisdiction of the Hague-based PCA, which isn't even related to the UN or its subordinate institutions like the ICJ. OP's article must have been fact-checked by a monkey or something.




actually no.its true that PCA doesn't determine "Sovereignty".but this is the platform which is used to solve any kind of dispute,including international dispute resolution, encompassing territorial, treaty, and human rights disputes between states, as well as commercial and investment disputes, including disputes arising under bilateral and multilateral investment treaties..so,they've the authority to solve,if China wish it to solve.


read this..................................


"We wish to reiterate that arbitration is a peaceful, open and friendly resolution mechanism that offers a durable solution to the disputes in the South China Sea," Foreign Affairs Spokesman Charles Jose told a press briefing.

"We continue to urge China to reconsider its decision not to participate in the arbitration proceedings."

At a press conference, presidential spokesperson Edwin Lacierda said they leave it to China whether or not it will comply with the order.

"This is a process that all parties are abiding by. So, whether China responds or not... we leave it with them," he said.

Tribunal orders China to respond to PHL’s complaint over sea row | News | GMA News Online

they couldn't enforce any ruling on you.so,probably no harm will be done for China if they have any case to present.but then,there is a big "IF".

and yes,"Right by Discovery" (which is China's much lauded logic) can't be presented as a logic in PCA.USA lost a case to Netherland,where USA presented this logic.

3 important ruling on that case by PCA..............



Firstly, title based on contiguity has no standing in international law.
Secondly, title by discovery is only an inchoate title.
Finally, if another sovereign begins to exercise continuous and actual sovereignty, (and the arbitrator required that the claim had to be open and public and with good title), and the discoverer does not contest this claim, the claim by the sovereign that exercises authority is greater than a title based on mere discovery.


----------



## xyxmt

VietHome said:


> You watch the video again. The fishing boat was trying to run away from Chinese ships and was breaking away a couple times until the much bigger ship caught up and rammed it. Small wooden boat cannot out-run a steel ship so you implication that the fishing ship "intentionally" slowed down to get hit from the Chinese ship is both baseless and hilariously sad at the same time. I'm not sure if I'm sad at our attempt to defense the indefensible or that you, as an Pakistani's flagged person would go all out to defense a tricky and aggressive nation like China. Is Chinese's yuan and military toys so important for Pakistan that people there accept to be Chinese shills so that they can bully a nation that has no connection or done nothing wrong to Pakistan; and a nation that actually treats Muslim well unlike what China is doing in Uyghur? Is a person's conscience that cheap to buy?
> 
> That question goes to all the Pakistan's posters here. In addition, to what extent will the Pakistani people continue to support China? Will you still cheer for China if Chinese ships shoot at innocent fishermen tomorrow?



Yes I watched the video and saw first the boat stopped in front of the ship and when ship came very close then they try to run away but if you a little bit of physics you would know that its impossible to run away from that distance because the displaced water from a huge ship will pull the tiny boat in. My opinion was not biased towards anyone i expressed my opinion as i saw it in the video. you cant show me the video and expect me to follow your line of thinking.


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

All the reasons for rejection the court of the chinese, that is just sophistry.

Simply, chinese does not have any evidence to prove their baseless claim in SCS.

Perhaps before a death, Chiang Kai Shek did not tell CCP that why he drawn "11 dash line map"


----------



## VietHome

Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> I am not enough time to read all comments here, but it's a big mistake if we Vietnamese talk to the chinese about int'l justice. In the history of Vietnam, we just forced them to abandon their intention ONLY when we killed more than half of chinese troops.
> I think now it is not different.


This is not a battle field, thus all this talk about war and killing is just fantasy talk for now. Doing that solves nothing but just to trade insults day by day. Showing that Vietnam is in the right both regally and in our actions during the conflict is the only way to make sure the international community, including some Chinese friends, understand the extent in which PRC has gone to brainwash a generation toward conflict with Vietnam, an good friend of China until last month.



xyxmt said:


> Yes I watched the video and saw first the boat stopped in front of the ship and when ship came very close then they try to run away but if you a little bit of physics you would know that its impossible to run away from that distance because the displaced water from a huge ship will pull the tiny boat in. My opinion was not biased towards anyone i expressed my opinion as i saw it in the video. you cant show me the video and expect me to follow your line of thinking.


Show me the exact minute in the first video when the Vietnamese boat stops please.


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

VietHome said:


> This is not a battle field, thus all this talk about war and killing is just fantasy talk for now. Doing that solves nothing but just to trade insults day by day. Showing that Vietnam is in the right both regally and in our actions during the conflict is the only way to make sure the international community, including some Chinese friends, understand the extent in which PRC has gone to brainwash a generation toward conflict with Vietnam, an good friend of China until last month.




Nothing change unless we have to decoy the chinese into a trap, such as "Battle of Bach Dang River", then killing at least half of their troops. ONLY that case, they accept to abandon the idea of invading Vietnam. 
Talking about justice with the chinese that is just wasting your time.


----------



## GreenFalcon




----------



## Jlaw

pursuit of happiness said:


> --
> and chinas maps are ?
> 
> 
> --
> UN not standing against china ..
> they said prove it that it yours...
> chines now have to submit their so called MAPS .....
> it will be a g8 fun ....
> --
> if UN is joke .. china is one of 5 jokers .. is it like that?
> 
> 
> --
> protect your interest not at cost of others
> you wil reported fo r abusive lang
> 
> 
> --
> shall i call japanese by that for you then ,..
> 
> 
> --
> now this is joke


 
Japanese never colonized whole China proper. They had control in a few cities for less than a decade but were ultimately defeated by CCP. India on the other hand...you know the rest.



Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> All the reasons for rejection the court of the chinese, that is just sophistry.
> 
> Simply, chinese does not have any evidence to prove their baseless claim in SCS.
> 
> Perhaps before a death, Chiang Kai Shek did not tell CCP that why he drawn "11 dash line map"


 
Your thinking is too simplistic my Vietnamese friend.


----------



## VietHome

Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> Nothing change unless we have to decoy the chinese into a trap, such as "Battle of Bach Dang River", then killing at least half of their troops. ONLY that case, they accept to abandon the idea of invading Vietnam.
> Talking about justice with the chinese that is just wasting your time.


I disagree, talking about justice is the only to prevent bloodshed and destruction. Chinese posters here believe in brute force and law of the jungle. That's why they are going around showing ships and planes. But then, their leadership cries when the US jumps in, calling the US "intimidating" the poor helpless Chinese. Bullies always fear to things: a bigger bully or a weaker foe with strong argument and his pack of friends. We can't be a bigger bully so we will have to be the one backed by sounded justice and other fair-minded nations.


----------



## Snomannen

Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> Strongly agree with you.
> 
> China has only big mouth . The historical evidences are not on their side. So, they are very afraid of the international court.
> 
> This is a Chinese map published by the Shanghai Publishing House, in the Qing Dynasty.
> 
> On the map, Where is the Paracel Islands, Spratly Islands? Where is so-called "nine dotted line"?



You have been told countless time that this map is NOT even a full map of China.
Why are you keep posting this, why are you keep forgetting things?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Jlaw

pursuit of happiness said:


> --
> if phipines are swine
> shall i call Japanese then they will tell you what you are..shall i call tokyo
> note: sorry chinese member this guy is out of control


 Japanese and Chinese share similar DNA haplo. Japanese acknowledged that it learnt and borrowed a lot from Chinese culture.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

Jlaw said:


> Your thinking is too simplistic my Vietnamese friend.



It is very simple that you the chinese big mouth can not given any evidence for chinese baseless claim "nine dotted line" in SCS.
I'm wrong?


----------



## Jlaw

KirovAirship said:


> You have been told countless time that this map is NOT a full map of China.
> Why are you keep posting this map, why are you keep forgetting things?


 
This is how some Vietnamese work. I worked there for two years and understand them quite well.



Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> It is very simple that you the chinese big mouth can not given any evidence for chinese baseless claim "nine dotted line" in SCS.
> I'm wrong?


 I am not here to educate you my friend.


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

KirovAirship said:


> You have been told countless time that this map is NOT even a full map of China.
> Why are you keep posting this, why are you keep forgetting things?



It is not full chinese map until in 1947, when Chiang Kai Shek inserted "11 dash map"? 



Jlaw said:


> I am not here to educate you my friend.



You are not qualified to educate me, unless it's your reason to flee.
I right?
I understand it, simply because you are a chinese.


----------



## Jlaw

Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> You are not qualified to educate me, unless it's your reason to flee.
> I right?
> I understand it, simply because you are a chinese.


 
You wrong, I did not flee. You guessed I am Chinese because my flag is Chinese--simply brilliant. Imagine if Vietnam had one million of you, how can Vietnam not be a hegemon of the world?


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

VietHome said:


> I disagree, talking about justice is the only to prevent bloodshed and destruction. Chinese posters here believe in brute force and law of the jungle. That's why they are going around showing ships and planes. But then, their leadership cries when the US jumps in, calling the US "intimidating" the poor helpless Chinese. Bullies always fear to things: a bigger bully or a weaker foe with strong argument and his pack of friends. We can't be a bigger bully so we will have to be the one backed by sounded justice and other fair-minded nations.



Our ancestors had a way to deal with Han chinese, that is to decoy them into a trap, then kill haft of them. 
Please study our great victories before the chinese invasion, you will see that.

Perhaps VN now is a province of china, just like East Tukistan or Tibet ... if our ancestors just sit and wait for international justice.


----------



## Snomannen

Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> It is not full chinese map until in 1947, when Chiang Kai Shek inserted "11 dash map"?



I'm not even taking about Chiang nor the 11 dash map, I'm talking about the map you posted which can't be the proof of your argument.


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

Jlaw said:


> You wrong, I did not flee. You guessed I am Chinese because my flag is Chinese--simply brilliant. Imagine if Vietnam had one million of you, how can Vietnam not be a hegemon of the world?



What I need here that is an evidence for chinese claim "9 dotted line", not the so-called hegemonic the world in your dream. 

Do not break your dreams, to be honest, it is a far fetched dream.



KirovAirship said:


> I'm not even taking about Chiang nor the 11 dash map, I'm talking about the map you posted which can't be the proof of your argument.



You want to say that the chinese map published by your ancestors, it is waste paper if without "9 dotted line", which was just inserted in 1947?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## VietHome

Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> Our ancestors had a way to deal with Han chinese, that is to decoy them into a trap, then kill haft of them.
> Please study our great victories before the chinese invasion, you will see that.
> 
> Perhaps VN now is a province of china, just like East Tukistan or Tibet ... if our ancestors just sit and wait for international justice.


But the world has changed and certain international rules are accepted and abide by all civilized nations. If it were the old days, China would have attacked Vietnam already, not lying and having the shills to defend them all over the internet.


----------



## Jlaw

DT1010 said:


> and do you know what your fellow countryman talk about this incident?
> "Vietnamese is invader, they attack us first, we didn't do anything, it's their fault, i repeat that we didn't ram their ship, they attack us first"


 Vietnam did start this incident. China will end it should Vietnam keep harrassing Chinese boats.



VietHome said:


> Japanese ships against ship from Honkong
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is a Chinese ship ramming Japanese Coast Guard ship.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See any similarity with this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We are trying to get away from you. The only obvious course is to expand trade with Japan, ASEAN, India, and the US. Attrition warfare is our specialty; that is what won over ancient China, the France, and the US. China is not a good neighbor. Vietnam wants to be friend with you but it seems like PRC doesn't need friends. You are right, China is so big and so powerful that it can go up against the world. Even the Russians are really cautious with China. Who has to right mind to immediately after signing the gas agreement to suggest Russia open border to Chinese workers to "populate" Siberia?


 Self defense on China's part. Vietnam is the aggressor. They started this incident.


----------



## VietHome

Jlaw said:


> Vietnam did start this incident. China will end it should Vietnam keep harrassing Chinese boats.


Funny, China started it by invading the Paracel in 1974, and did it again this year by sending the rig into our territorial water.

China did the same thing, harassing the US ship in its claimed territorial water, several years ago: Navy Sends Destroyer to Protect Surveillance Ship After Incident in South China Sea. Maybe I should have cried that the US was doing self-defense like you back then.


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

VietHome said:


> But the world has changed and certain international rules are accepted and abide by all civilized nations. If it were the old days, China would have attacked Vietnam already, not lying and having the shills to defend them all over the internet.



I think nothing change. Kill at least half of their troops, That's the only way.

As you know, after killing 4, most of the illegal chinese labors fled Vietnam. Earlier, many Vietnam papers has repeatedly condemned the illegal chinese labors flooding of VN, but nothing changed.

Do not waste your time to talk right-wrong with the chinese, my fellows.


----------



## Jlaw

VietHome said:


> Funny, China started it by invading the Paracel in 1974, and did it again this year by sending the rig into our territorial water.
> 
> China did the same thing, harrassing the US ship in its claimed territorial water, several years ago: Navy Sends Destroyer to Protect Surveillance Ship After Incident in South China Sea


 Good try, but the article states it "alleges". Do not think Vietnam is US.



Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> Our ancestors had a way to deal with Han chinese, that is to decoy them into a trap, then kill haft of them.
> Please study our great victories before the chinese invasion, you will see that.
> 
> Perhaps VN now is a province of china, just like East Tukistan or Tibet ... if our ancestors just sit and wait for international justice.


 
Yes, your ancestors were wiser. They dealt with China by:
1. Not causing trouble
2. Be good little boy
3. Pay yearly tribute
4. Adopt Chinese culture

It worked for 1000 years, why break something if isn't broke?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

Jlaw said:


> Yes, your ancestors were wiser. They dealt with China by:
> 1. Not causing trouble
> 2. Be good little boy
> 3. Pay yearly tribute
> 4. Adopt Chinese culture
> 
> It worked for 1000 years, why break something if isn't broke?



Everything our ancestors had to do that is wait for the opportunity. 
We'll kill any our enemies when we have a chance. 

You do not think I'm joking? I'm sure not.


----------



## VietHome

Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> I think nothing change. Kill at least half of their troops, That's the only way.
> 
> As you know, after killing 4, most of the illegal chinese labors fled Vietnam. Earlier, many Vietnam papers has repeatedly condemned the illegal chinese labors flooding of VN, but nothing changed.


I think you should refrain from using "killing." We are against the Chinese government, not the people.

Some Chinese workers left but their undercover forces are still in Vietnam, occupying strategic areas from the Central Highland to the Coastal region. It will be a long time to correctly expel the Chinese intelligent elements from Vietnam.



Jlaw said:


> Good try, but the article states it "alleges". Do not think Vietnam is US.


How does "alleged" change the equation? China also "allegedly" claim that Vietnam harasses their ships while all the video evidences we see are Vietnamese ship being rammed, watered, sunk by Chinese boat. Who is harassing whom again?

Am I comparing Vietnam to the US? No, I am comparing Vietnam to China back then and China to the US back then. China is acting the same way the US does. If the US is a big bully then China is a small bully. That's the analogy here.


----------



## Viet

itaskol said:


> UN court is a joke.
> in fact the UN is a joke


step out the UN and quit all treaties you have signed!



Jlaw said:


> China is part of P5. It may be a joke, it allows P5 members to be above international laws.


you are above the laws? China as lawless country?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

VietHome said:


> I think you should refrain from using *"killing."* We are against the Chinese government, not the people.
> 
> Some Chinese workers left but their undercover forces are still in Vietnam, occupying strategic areas from the Central Highland to the Coastal region. It will be a long time to correctly expel the Chinese intelligent elements from Vietnam.
> 
> .



Maybe you don't agree with me, but that's the only way to deal with chinese.

We have a Dien Bien Phu victory in land against over French invaders, a Dien Bien Phu victory in air against US bombing of Hanoi sky, so why do not we create a Dien Bien Phu victory on the sea?


----------



## athlon

In my opinion, the China's coast guard was brutal. That's it. I'm off..


----------



## VietHome

Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> Maybe you don't agree with me, but that's the only way to deal with chinese.
> 
> We have a Dien Bien Phu victory in land against over French invaders, a Dien Bien Phu victory in air against US bombing of Hanoi sky, so why do not we create a Dien Bien Phu victory on the sea?


It's not good to be cynical. Words have always been a better solution than guns. Our people fought hard against invaders only when war was inevitable. Viet Minh had restrained until the last minutes when the French was in Hanoi to fight back. We may have to fight foreign aggressors again, but there is room to talk right now.


----------



## Shardul.....the lion

As I always say Chinese are nothing but bullies. The video clearly shows that bully nature of chinese coast guard.

They should also try to bully american warship..... but they will not... because a bully will target only weaker fishing boats........


----------



## GCTom

"*Video proof that Chinese ship chased and sank Vietnamese boat*"

If this is what it takes to protect the rig and the civilians on it from Vietnamese aggressions after they breach the no-go zone, then so be it.

China is not going to let Vietnamese ships damage the rig and harm their citizens.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## vtnsx

VietHome said:


> Contrary to the lies from Chinese media and leaders that Vietnamese boat "rammed the Chinese ship and sunk," this video clearly shown what happened in 05/26 when Chinese ships chased this Vietnamese boat with the intention to kill like a "wild animal." This is indeed a barbaric action rarely seen from a state in the 21st century.



Western nations are not stupid. They obviously know who does what and it's no rocket science that metal vs wood in this video. We are well aware of China's action and are taking everything into considerations. There's a plan of action in the making and will take time to implement it. Patient is key here.


----------



## VietHome

bolo said:


> xisha islands are controlled and administered by China, so yeah, we own it.


If that is the rule of your game, then stop talking about taking back the Senkaku islands from Japan. PRC doesn't play by any international rule, just what fits at the moment. Such a big nation with a small minded leadership.


----------



## vtnsx

VietHome said:


> But the world has changed and certain international rules are accepted and abide by all civilized nations. If it were the old days, China would have attacked Vietnam already, not lying and having the shills to defend them all over the internet.



Never act like the victim.


----------



## DoTell

It's a video proof alright. It proves the so called anti-China alliance is a piece of sh!t. The Americans, Japanese, Indians and Philipinnos are watching while China is kicking the Vietnamese butt like in 1979. Nobody is helping your ***

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Globenim

Dont try to attack Chinese civilian vessels with your "innocent civilian fishing boats" around Chinese territorial waters.
Then you dont need to cry about "aggressive" Chinese chasing you away.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## BoQ77

Globenim said:


> Dont try to attack Chinese civilian vessels with your "innocent civilian fishing boats" around Chinese territorial waters.
> Then you dont need to cry about "aggressive" Chinese chasing you away.



Are you Chinese ?
I could say, no civilian vessels have the right to legally ram to sink other civilian vessel. That's murder.
And everyone could point out that the site is not belong to any country territorial water.

*Or Chinese consider The Oil Rig has it own territorial water and EEZ ? Is it a new tool for Chinese neo-imperialism ?*

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## BoQ77

nine-dotted-line cannot resolved by bilaterial nego as China want, because that related to the whole world.
so it's logical to ask for more definition. why China doesn't dare to prove its claim ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Kyle Sun

Pinoy said:


> China always using historical claim. This is the 20th century, you can use history but to claim what is you thought was yours before is totally BS. War changes the face of the earth many times. Unless China wanted to start one, then let it be and hope China will be the same after that.
> 
> That is why nations need international laws to follow.
> 
> 
> Philippine claims are based on UNCLOS stupid dimwit. Historical records not recognized by the international community remains a fiction.. wake up...go to school and let your mind evolve... you're just too fed up by your Commie government.


Talk your shit to USA , ask Bush and Obama why they did not follow International laws.
It is USA who destroy the authority of international laws.



Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> Strongly agree with you.
> 
> China has only big mouth . The historical evidences are not on their side. So, they are very afraid of the international court.
> 
> This is a Chinese map published by the Shanghai Publishing House, in the Qing Dynasty.
> 
> On the map, Where is the Paracel Islands, Spratly Islands? Where is so-called "nine dotted line"?


Even Heilongjiang province and Xijiang are not on this map .

Does that means those places are not ours?


----------



## Okemos

Pinoy said:


> China always using historical claim. This is the 20th century, you can use history but to claim what is you thought was yours before is totally BS. War changes the face of the earth many times. Unless China wanted to start one, then let it be and hope China will be the same after that.
> 
> That is why nations need international laws to follow.
> 
> 
> Philippine claims are based on UNCLOS stupid dimwit. Historical records not recognized by the international community remains a fiction.. wake up...go to school and let your mind evolve... you're just too fed up by your Commie government.



In fact, territories are mostly decided by historical claims. Otherwise, tell me what's the basis of you occupying the Philipines islands? Because your ancestors were born there or because a UN document says so? Of course, historical claims could be decided by continual occupation, war, treaties, etc. Majorities of land demarcation are based on historical occupation, discoveries. UN treaties cannot nullify historical claims and thus re-demarcate borders. Most laws do not have retroactive effect. 

What's considered international community? Shall we vote to decide each territorial dispute? Is the whole world a democracy at large? Shall a tiny country like Brunei have equal voting power as a country with billion population, thus, making one Brunei person's voting power worth 10000 times than a Chinese or an Indian?


----------



## BoQ77

Okemos said:


> In fact, territories are mostly decided by historical claims. Otherwise, tell me what's the basis of you occupying the Philipines islands? Because your ancestors were born there or because a UN document says so? Of course, historical claims could be decided by continual occupation, war, treaties, etc. Majorities of land demarcation are based on historical occupation, discoveries. UN treaties cannot nullify historical claims and thus re-demarcate borders. Most laws do not have retroactive effect.
> 
> What's considered international community? Shall we vote to decide each territorial dispute? Is the whole world a democracy at large? Shall a tiny country like Brunei have equal voting power as a country with billion population, thus, making one Brunei person's voting power worth 10000 times than a Chinese or an Indian?




Nine-dashed-line appear to be a navigating route of someone who is unknown. 
Is that a 2000 years old historical line ? Anything prove that guy actually sail on that track ?
sailing only is nothing related to territory. 

What if my dog invades your garden and piss on, can I claim your garden as my land ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Pangu

* A Sea of False Accusations*
CIIS　Time: Apr 22, 2014　Writer: Cao Qun　Editor: Li Xiaoyu
*
By Cao Qun

The Philippines' legal challenge over South China Sea disputes is untenable*

Last year, the Philippines instituted arbitral proceedings against China over maritime disputes in the South China Sea. The case appeared to have entered a new phase when Manila submitted a 4,000-page memorial filing to the arbitral tribunal on March 30.

The latest move of the Philippines, in truth, is merely the starting point for resolving the issue of whether the tribunal has jurisdiction over the arbitration case. In accordance with Article 25 of the Rules of Procedure adopted by the arbitral tribunal, if China does not appear before the tribunal, the tribunal shall invite written arguments from the Philippines on, or pose questions regarding, specific issues which it considers have not been canvassed or have been inadequately canvassed in the pleadings submitted by the Philippines. The Philippines shall make a supplemental written submission within three months, which shall be communicated to China for comments. The latter's comments will then be submitted within three months of the communication. Therefore, whether the case will finally be accepted and heard by the tribunal is still far from certain.

In response to the move, the Chinese Foreign Ministry said China does not accept the Philippines' submission of the disputes for international arbitration. "On issues concerning disputes over sovereignty of islands and reefs and delimitation of maritime boundaries, China has all along adhered to settling disputes through direct negotiations with countries concerned," said a ministry spokesman.

*Nine-dash line*

Under Article 298 of the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), China declared that it does not accept compulsory procedures relating to sea boundary delimitations in 2006. But the Philippines insisted that the arbitral tribunal have jurisdiction over the claims the country has asserted in the belief that its claims do not fall within the excepted category of disputes. In these circumstances, pursuant to Article 9 of Annex VII to the UNCLOS, the arbitral tribunal must demonstrate not only that it has jurisdiction over the disputes but also that the Philippines' claims are well founded in fact and law before making its award.

Though Philippines' arbitral proceedings against China are carefully packaged, they come down to disputes concerning maritime delimitations involving the concurrent consideration of unsettled sovereignty disputes over insular land territory—issues that are not covered by the UNCLOS. The Philippines doubted the legitimacy of the "nine-dash line" claimed by China in the South China Sea, and asserted South China Sea maritime disputes should be judged by the UNCLOS. But the fact is, under the principle of "non-retroactivity of treaties" enshrined in the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties adopted in 1969, the UNCLOS, which came into force in 1994, cannot deny China's "U-shape line" published almost half a century ago.

Moreover, since the Chinese Government has so far not made a clear interpretation of the nine-dash line, the logic behind the Philippines' accusation that the line does not conform to the UNCLOS is questionable. Currently, there are several different interpretations over the nine-dash line within China's academic circles. The Philippine side may ask China to give an official explanation before making its comments. However, Manila chose to distort China's claim, saying China has claimed the sovereignty of the whole South China Sea and made that the precondition for negotiations.

China has reiterated it has sovereignty over the South China Sea islands and their adjacent waters, but never claimed sovereignty over all waters within the nine-dash line. For instance, in a letter to UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon in May 2009, the Chinese Government stated that "China has indisputable sovereignty over the islands in the South China Sea and their adjacent waters, and enjoys sovereign rights and jurisdiction over the relevant waters as well as the seabed and subsoil thereof." From a legal perspective, while having sovereignty over its internal waters and territorial waters, a country can enjoy sovereign rights and jurisdiction over its exclusive economic zone (EEZ) and continental shelf. Therefore, "adjacent waters" in the letter should be interpreted as territorial waters, whereas "relevant waters as well as the seabed and subsoil thereof" refer to China's EEZ and continental shelf.

*EEZ claims*

The Philippines also argued that China's sovereignty claim over some low-tide elevations or submerged features such as Meiji Reef, Ximen Reef, Nanxun Reef and Zhubi Reef violates the UNCLOS, which says submerged features not above sea level at high tide are part of seabed and cannot be subject to the sovereignty of a state. However, China released its nine-dash line long before the UNCLOS entered into force. The international law community at that time distinguished seabed and subsoil from waters in the high seas. They essentially deemed that the seabed and subsoil can be occupied. For instance, the eighth edition of Oppenheim's International Law published in 1955 said that states' exploitation of seabed resources through the activities of their people had become an international practice.

In the 1940s and 1950s, especially after Washington issued the Truman Proclamations in 1945, there were many cases of countries claiming rights over seabed and subsoil in the high seas. Truman Proclamation 2667 said the U.S. Government "regards the natural resources of the subsoil and sea bed of the continental shelf beneath the high seas but contiguous to the coasts of the United States as appertaining to the United States, subject to its jurisdiction and control." Truman Proclamation 2668 vowed to establish conservation zones in those areas to protect fishery resources. Therefore, it is unfair to question China's "historic title" over the submerged features within the nine-dash line that have been officially identified by China.

It is worth noting that the low-tide elevations or submerged features the Philippines mentioned are all located within the EEZs of larger islands. Thus, the Philippine accusation that China claims too many waters is groundless. In a recent article published in RSIS Commentaries titled The South China Sea Disputes: Formula for a Paradigm Shift?, scholars Robert Beckman and Clive Schofield wrote that China could limit its EEZ claim to just the 12 largest islands in Nansha Archipelago. They all have vegetation and in some cases roads and structures have been built on them. Therefore, they are "islands" entitled in principle to EEZ and continental shelf rights of their own under the UNCLOS. The two authors pointed out that while it may appear that using only the larger disputed islands to generate its EEZ claim would entail a "loss" of potential maritime areas to China, the impact would actually be minimal because the islands are grouped in close proximity to each other, allowing a broad sweep of EEZ claims. They argued that claiming only the larger islands will not limit China's maritime reach significantly, but would bring the country's claim more in line with international law.

Furthermore, the Philippines has failed to fulfill the obligation to exchange views with China on the disputes. Article 283 of the UNCLOS says that when a dispute arises between state parties concerning the interpretation or application of the convention, the parties shall proceed expeditiously to an exchange of views regarding its settlement by negotiation or other peaceful means. And in accordance with Article 286 of the convention, if the Philippines fails to fulfill this obligation, it has no right to subject the disputes to compulsory procedures. In fact, the Philippines knows the importance of this obligation, and often regards diplomatic consultations on sovereignty disputes involving Huangyan Island and Meiji Reef as evidence that it has fulfilled the obligation. As previously mentioned, arbitration under the convention should not address any dispute concerning sovereignty over land territory. The Philippines also states explicitly in its notification and statement that it does not "seek in this arbitration a determination of which party enjoys sovereignty over the islands claimed by both of them." It therefore has no reason whatsoever to use diplomatic consultations on sovereignty disputes as evidence of fulfilling the obligation to exchange views.

In conclusion, the Philippines' push for international arbitration against China over maritime disputes in the South China Sea is suspected of abusing the procedures of the UNCLOS. It also seeks to damage China's image by deliberately distorting the country's stance. Since the arbitration items the Philippines submitted either go against facts or international law, or involve disputes that China has excluded from arbitration procedures, the arbitral tribunal should conclude that it has no jurisdiction over the case.

*The author is an assistant research fellow with the China Institute of International Studies*

*Source:* A Sea of False Accusations -- Beijing Review


----------



## terranMarine

Viet said:


> you are above the laws? China as lawless country?


Isn't that what the US is which is also part of the P5? Above the law, accuse Iraq of making weapons of mass destructions and invade that country. Now where's the law? Since you are begging Uncle Sam you don't see anything wrong with what the US did as long you think Uncle Sam is to help you contain China.


----------



## hurt

Rechoice said:


> The new ship is complited, designed by Holland company.


I know that viet can't design


----------



## xesy

Globenim said:


> Dont try to attack Chinese civilian vessels with your "innocent civilian fishing boats" around Chinese territorial waters.
> Then you dont need to cry about "aggressive" Chinese chasing you away.


The boat was sunk 17nm from the rig. China one-sided bans all Vietnam vessels in a 10nm radius around the rig. Either ways China is wrong. You take self-defence to a new level. One day you will start a war in the name of self-defen.. oh wait, you already did.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## BoQ77

BoQ77 said:


> Are you Chinese ?
> I could say, no civilian vessels have the right to legally ram to sink other civilian vessel. That's murder.
> And everyone could point out that the site is not belong to any country territorial water.
> 
> *Or Chinese consider The Oil Rig has it own territorial water and EEZ ? Is it a new tool for Chinese neo-imperialism ?*



Actually, the Oil Rig is a vessel, like oil tank vessel, for example ... There's no special policy for it. 
Why Chinese keep stating that any other vessels must stay away 8-10nm from their Oil Rig, while their armed fighters approach as near as 30 meters to Japanese unarmed aircrafts ? or Chinese fighter even hit to US aircraft in the international air zone ? 
cause it heavy damage and must process emergency landing ... 
and in latest news, Chinese civilian ships chased and ram to sink much smaller Vietnamese ship.

China doesn't respect others but forced others to respect security of their ships ( like the Hai Yang Shi You 981 Oil Rig vessel )

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## qwerrty

if the UN has any credibility.. palestinians and cambodians would have had their stolen lands back from israel and vietnam long time ago and china and japan wouldn't be fighting each other over a few useless rocks.. lol


----------



## tranquilium

Yeah, no.

UNCLOS and Agreement on Part XI - Preamble and frame index

_"Article 298

Optional exceptions to applicability of section 2
_
1. When signing, ratifying or acceding to this Convention or at any time thereafter, a State may, *without prejudice to the obligations arising under section 1, declare in writing that it does not accept any one or more of the procedures provided for in section 2* with respect to one or more of the following categories of disputes:

(a) (i) disputes concerning the interpretation or application of articles 15, 74 and 83 relating to sea boundary delimitations, or those involving historic bays or titles, provided that a State having made such a declaration shall, when such a dispute arises subsequent to the entry into force of this Convention and where no agreement within a reasonable period of time is reached in negotiations between the parties, at the request of any party to the dispute, accept submission of the matter to conciliation under Annex V, section 2; and provided further that any dispute that necessarily involves the concurrent consideration of any unsettled dispute concerning sovereignty or other rights over continental or insular land territory shall be excluded from such submission;

(ii) after the conciliation commission has presented its report, which shall state the reasons on which it is based, the parties shall negotiate an agreement on the basis of that report; if these negotiations do not result in an agreement, the parties shall, by mutual consent, submit the question to one of the procedures provided for in section 2, unless the parties otherwise agree;

(iii) this subparagraph does not apply to any sea boundary dispute finally settled by an arrangement between the parties, or to any such dispute which is to be settled in accordance with a bilateral or multilateral agreement binding upon those parties;

*(b) disputes concerning military activities, including military activities by government vessels and aircraft engaged in non-commercial service, and disputes concerning law enforcement activities in regard to the exercise of sovereign rights or jurisdiction excluded from the jurisdiction of a court or tribunal under article 297, paragraph 2 or 3;*

(c) disputes in respect of which the Security Council of the United Nations is exercising the functions assigned to it by the Charter of the United Nations, unless the Security Council decides to remove the matter from its agenda or calls upon the parties to settle it by the means provided for in this Convention."

Next, please.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## bolo

Jlaw said:


> Japanese and Chinese share similar DNA haplo. Japanese acknowledged that it learnt and borrowed a lot from Chinese culture.


At least the japs acknowledge these facts. The dirty viets claim China stole their culture.



tranquilium said:


> Yeah, no.
> 
> UNCLOS and Agreement on Part XI - Preamble and frame index
> 
> _"Article 298
> 
> Optional exceptions to applicability of section 2
> _
> 1. When signing, ratifying or acceding to this Convention or at any time thereafter, a State may, without prejudice to the obligations arising under section 1, declare in writing that it does not accept any one or more of the procedures provided for in section 2 with respect to one or more of the following categories of disputes:
> 
> (a) (i) disputes concerning the interpretation or application of articles 15, 74 and 83 relating to sea boundary delimitations, or those involving historic bays or titles, provided that a State having made such a declaration shall, when such a dispute arises subsequent to the entry into force of this Convention and where no agreement within a reasonable period of time is reached in negotiations between the parties, at the request of any party to the dispute, accept submission of the matter to conciliation under Annex V, section 2; and provided further that any dispute that necessarily involves the concurrent consideration of any unsettled dispute concerning sovereignty or other rights over continental or insular land territory shall be excluded from such submission;
> 
> (ii) after the conciliation commission has presented its report, which shall state the reasons on which it is based, the parties shall negotiate an agreement on the basis of that report; if these negotiations do not result in an agreement, the parties shall, by mutual consent, submit the question to one of the procedures provided for in section 2, unless the parties otherwise agree;
> 
> (iii) this subparagraph does not apply to any sea boundary dispute finally settled by an arrangement between the parties, or to any such dispute which is to be settled in accordance with a bilateral or multilateral agreement binding upon those parties;
> 
> (b) disputes concerning military activities, including military activities by government vessels and aircraft engaged in non-commercial service, and disputes concerning law enforcement activities in regard to the exercise of sovereign rights or jurisdiction excluded from the jurisdiction of a court or tribunal under article 297, paragraph 2 or 3;
> 
> (c) disputes in respect of which the Security Council of the United Nations is exercising the functions assigned to it by the Charter of the United Nations, unless the Security Council decides to remove the matter from its agenda or calls upon the parties to settle it by the means provided for in this Convention."
> 
> Next, please.


Too technical for pinoys and lil' jungle men to comprehend. Lol.


----------



## tranquilium

bolo said:


> At least the japs acknowledge these facts. The dirty viets claim China stole their culture.
> 
> 
> Too technical for pinoys and lil' jungle men to comprehend. Lol.



It felt like I have said this a thousand times. What exactly do these people feel that they are going to accomplish trying to sue a major nation, one that is a member of the permanent security council and one of the big three, at UN? You think that when major nations, the one that made the convention in the first place, won't leave loophole for themselves to use? Please, international charters haven't protected weak nation against strong ones since the dawn of human history. 

In fact, it was only with the rise of China that East Asia has a relatively peaceful major power and the threat of this power kept the region peaceful against invaders from the other parts of the world.

The Philippine government does it because it is a gesture. One that is designed to show US that yes, they are on their side in their conflict with China. It wasn't mean to accomplish anything.


----------



## Sam Manekshaw

Do it china....

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## bolo

tranquilium said:


> It felt like I have said this a thousand times. What exactly do these people feel that they are going to accomplish trying to sue a major nation, one that is a member of the permanent security council and one of the big three, at UN? You think that when major nations, the one that made the convention in the first place, won't leave loophole for themselves to use? Please, international charters haven't protected weak nation against strong ones since the dawn of human history.
> 
> In fact, it was only with the rise of China that East Asia has a relatively peaceful major power and the threat of this power kept the region peaceful against invaders from the other parts of the world.
> 
> The Philippine government does it because it is a gesture. One that is designed to show US that yes, they are on their side in their conflict with China. It wasn't mean to accomplish anything.


You have to understand smaller, weak countries can only cry, beg and play victim. P5 countries should just ignore it, the incident will pass through in a week. Bringing it up plays in their favor.
We know that a stronger China is good for EA, bad for US. US' only realistic option is to use these pawns to incite problems. These fools actually fall for it.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

hurt said:


> I know that viet can't design



It is better than copy,

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## tranquilium

bolo said:


> You have to understand smaller, weak countries can only cry, beg and play victim. P5 countries should just ignore it, the incident will pass through in a week. Bringing it up plays in their favor.
> We know that a stronger China is good for EA, bad for US. US' only realistic option is to use these pawns to incite problems. These fools actually fall for it.



The cry is not aimed at China in the first place. Like I said, it wasn't meant to actually to accomplish anything against China, but instead it is aimed at US. It is like saying "hey, you know that guy you don't like? I can fight him for ya (well, more like annoy). So give me some aid money, will ya?" It is the same thing with Vietnam.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## bolo

tranquilium said:


> The cry is not aimed at China in the first place. Like I said, it was meant to actually to accomplish anything against China, but instead it is aimed at US. It is like saying "hey, you know that guy you don't like? I can fight him for ya (well, more like annoy). So give me some aid money, will ya?" It is the same thing with Vietnam.


Maybe fo show for the pinoys. In vietnam's case, it was a miscalculation on their government's part.


----------



## cnleio




----------



## xesy

bolo said:


> At least the japs acknowledge these facts. The dirty viets claim China stole their culture.
> 
> 
> Too technical for pinoys and lil' jungle men to comprehend. Lol.


Sorry but we never claim China stole our culture. China destroyed our culture during the 1000 years occupation and pushed its own to us. Forcing Vietnamese to follow Chinese rules, burning historical records and relics, forcing Vietnamese to speak Chinese and write mandarin, supporting Chinese men to marry Vietnamese women (not vice versa). At the occupation period, China did not see Vietnam as a vassal state but as a part of the mainland. However, China acted all high and mighty, enslaved and dictated Vietnam. That's why our ancestors rebelled against China and created our own countries.

China claimed Vietnam a part of it but did they ever act like one? You for example think of us as animals, sub-human who are foolish enough to stand against China. There are Chinese posters in this forum who discriminate against HKnese and TWenese, just because they don't share the same opinion about the topic. And now there will be Chinese posters insult me for daring to point that out.



xudeen said:


> * A Sea of False Accusations*
> CIIS　Time: Apr 22, 2014　Writer: Cao Qun　Editor: Li Xiaoyu
> *By Cao Qun
> Source:* A Sea of False Accusations -- Beijing Review


I think that a report will not do justice to the 4000 pages case of Phillipine. And your gov refuses to go to the court so why bother if the case is right or wrong?


----------



## xesy

Uhm, can you translate the text below the pics? I am curious about what Chinese media say.


----------



## OrionHunter

The whole world has signed the UNCLOS Treaty except China, because if they do, then they'll lose their claims in the South China Sea and the lucrative energy sources therein.


----------



## cnleio

xesy said:


> Uhm, can you translate the text below the pics? I am curious about what Chinese media say.


It's pic watermark, "upload into XXX forum by who and date" nothing else.


----------



## itaskol

OrionHunter said:


> The whole world has signed the UNCLOS Treaty except China, because if they do, then they'll lose their claims in the South China Sea and the lucrative energy sources therein.


You are wrong, the country which refused to sign UNCLOS is USA not China.
and We claim in the South China Sea before we signed the UNCLOS.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

CCG 1401 delivered（see below）at HPS

CCG 3402 scheduled for launch this weekend at HPS

CCG X30X scheduled for launch next month at HPS

CCG 230X launched at GSI（pictures when available）






Five more CCG X30X vessels under construction

Coming up next are four 5000-tonne plus CCG ships。

More to come，a lot more。


----------



## Rechoice

itaskol said:


> You are wrong, the country which refused to sign UNCLOS is USA not China.
> and We claim in the South China Sea before we signed the UNCLOS.



UNCLOS is rules of international law, China signed it you have to obey it, no exception.


----------



## itaskol

Rechoice said:


> UNCLOS is rules of international law, China signed it you have to obey it, no exception.


we obey the rules in our way

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## xunzi

The international norm regarding dispute is to solve through bilateral negotiation. Rarely any case is being solved through international arbitration that can lead to an acceptable outcome. We said this many times already that we preferred bilateral solution. No amount of pressure from anyone, let alone the Philippines, will force us to involve in court when there is no need from our side.


----------



## Rechoice

cnleio said:


> It's pic watermark, "upload into XXX forum by who and date" nothing else.



Chinese is sea pirate, do you understand ?


----------



## B+ Dracula

Jlaw said:


> Japanese and Chinese share similar DNA haplo. Japanese acknowledged that it learnt and borrowed a lot from Chinese culture.


Your Culture is Awesome....I like to be in China.
Playing Ninja against You....


----------



## Rechoice

itaskol said:


> we obey the rules in our way



then there is jungle rules apply to you.


----------



## Viet

*Worldview*






by JOHN J. XENAKIS 4 Jun 2014







China's belligerent military actions in the South China Sea, annexing regions that have historically belonged to Vietnam, Brunei, Malaysia, Indonesia and the Philippines, have drawn worldwide criticism, and caused Japan, Vietnam and the Philippines to form a military alliance to oppose China. The criticism is so sharp that a number of analysts have openly questioned why the Chinese would act so belligerently, if doing so incurred such criticism. These questions are extremely naive, but here are the answers from the point of view of Generational Dynamics:


The Chinese people are nationalistic almost to the point of hysteria, and believe that their military can beat anyone, including the US.
China is desperate for energy, and doesn't want to share South China Sea oil and gas deposits with anyone.
The "China Dream" is to replace the US as the major power of the world, though the Chinese people want to do it with thuggery and conquest and not, as the US did, by simply taking responsibility for the well-being of other nations.
The Chinese people hate the Vietnamese, Philippine and Japanese people. The feeling, incidentally, is mutual in each case.
*Chinese actions towards the Vietnamese have been acts of war*, or pretty close. News reports of Chinese ships using water cannons on Vietnamese ships seem to convey a benign impression. But these water cannons are being directed at doing maximum danger, to force the ships to return to port for repair. And that's only part of it. Chinese ships have been ramming smaller Vietnamese ships with the purpose of sinking them or damaging them beyond repair.

According to unconfirmed reports, Vietnam is developing an aggressive strategy to country Chinese belligerence. The strategy develops in stages:


Vietnam's Coast Guard maintains a continuous perimeter around China's armada, and broadcasts daily reassertions of Vietnamese sovereignty.
Vietnam is considering legal action against China. This might take the form of support for the Philippines at the U.N. Arbitral Tribunal now in session.
Vietnam's aim is to avoid a direct confrontation, but to deter China by creating circumstances where China would have to accept the status quo or escalate. On Vietnamese proposal is to conduct surveillance patrols and exercises jointly with the Philippines and Japan, so that China would have to attack three countries at once. These patrols would be accompanied by unarmed U.S. Nave maritime surveillance aircraft already stationed in the Philippines.
Finally, a "mutually assured destruction" strategy to be applied only when relations with China have deteriorated to the point of armed conflict. Vietnam would launch ballistic missiles at China's merchant shipping and oil containers, with the objective of causing maximal psychological and economic damage. The next step would be to launch missiles at China's cities.
Once again, we have a strategy that's extremely naive. The strategy is "creating circumstances where China would have to accept the status quo or escalate." If this were 20 years ago, China would accept the status quo. But today, given a choice between accepting the status quo or escalating, China will escalate. 

*And if Vietnam launches any ballistic missile at any China asset or city, China will clobber Vietnam, quickly spiraling into world war.*

One way or another it's clear that Vietnam is not going to tolerate much longer China's annexing of Vietnamese property and attacking and crippling Vietnamese ships, without a substantially escalated response.


World View: Vietnam Develops Increasingly Dangerous Strategy to Counter China

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cnleio

Vietnam so STRONG, China scared ! 



> According to unconfirmed reports, Vietnam is developing an aggressive strategy to country Chinese belligerence. The strategy develops in stages:
> 
> 
> Vietnam's Coast Guard maintains a continuous perimeter around China's armada, and broadcasts daily reassertions of Vietnamese sovereignty.
> Vietnam is considering legal action against China. This might take the form of support for the Philippines at the U.N. Arbitral Tribunal now in session.
> Vietnam's aim is to avoid a direct confrontation, but to deter China by creating circumstances where China would have to accept the status quo or escalate. On Vietnamese proposal is to conduct surveillance patrols and exercises jointly with the Philippines and Japan, so that China would have to attack three countries at once. These patrols would be accompanied by unarmed U.S. Nave maritime surveillance aircraft already stationed in the Philippines.
> Finally, a "mutually assured destruction" strategy to be applied only when relations with China have deteriorated to the point of armed conflict. Vietnam would launch ballistic missiles at China's merchant shipping and oil containers, with the objective of causing maximal psychological and economic damage. The next step would be to launch missiles at China's cities.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

Vietnam needs long range ballistic missiles if we want to bomb Shanghai or Beijing.
we have enough cruise missiles to target all vessels in the SC Sea and Southern China.



cnleio said:


> Vietnam so STRONG, China scared !


we are too poor, and therefore have nothing to lose.
by the way, the article is written by a foreigner, but it comes very close to what we are thinking.


----------



## Bastion-P

cnleio said:


> Vietnam so STRONG, China scared !


It's just a view from analysts, but their view is quite exact:


> The Chinese people are nationalistic almost to the point of hysteria, and believe that their military can beat anyone, including the US.
> China is desperate for energy, and doesn't want to share South China Sea oil and gas deposits with anyone.
> The "China Dream" is to replace the US as the major power of the world, though the Chinese people want to do it with thuggery and conquest and not, as the US did, by simply taking responsibility for the well-being of other nations.
> The Chinese people hate the Vietnamese, Philippine and Japanese people. The feeling, incidentally, is mutual in each case.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

Bastion-P said:


> It's just a view from analysts, but their view is quite exact:


Chinese have $4 trillion, but they rob some few dollars from Vietnam to get richer.
Now the world knows who they are.


----------



## Beast

Small boy cry foul. Vietnam being small does not make you look innocent in this small scene. China offer natural reserve sharing with all the partner but the greedy Vietnamese and Pinoy say no and want everything. See who is the greedy one?



Viet said:


> Chinese have $4 trillion, but they rob some few dollars from Vietnam to get richer.
> Now the world knows who they are.



Are you jealous of our 4 trillion reserve?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cnleio

Viet said:


> Vietnam needs long range ballistic missiles if we want to bomb Shanghai or Beijing.
> we have enough cruise missiles to target all vessels in the SC Sea and Southern China.



That long range ballistic missile from Vietnam to China ShangHai, the range >300km, forbid in《Hague Code of Conduct against Ballistic Missile Proliferation (HCOC)》no nation will sell >300km ballistic missile to u and U.N's economic sanction wil come.

If no >300km ballistic missile limit in the weapon market, China would sell DF missiles to every foreign customer.


----------



## silverblade

Does the tribunal has the jurisdiction to settle territorial dispute without the consent of all parties concerned ? 
If yes, this is an unprecedented godsend for world peace. There won't be arm conflicts anymore only arbitrations. It would be better for the tribunal to give priority to those bloody conflict starting with Israel/Palestin by compelling them to submit their cases too. 

All hail the Tribunal aka Capitol, to hell the Mockingjay !


----------



## xunzi

VIETNAM is NOT a superpower okay? LOLOL


----------



## Stealth

itaskol said:


> UN court is a joke.
> in fact the UN is a joke



United Nation of few countries in which US and their puppets particular who want to impose their objective agenda on others that what actually UN shit is..


----------



## Viet

cnleio said:


> That long range ballistic missile from Vietnam to China ShangHai, the range >300km, forbid in《Hague Code of Conduct against Ballistic Missile Proliferation (HCOC)》no nation will sell >300km ballistic missile to u and U.N's economic sanction wil come.
> 
> If no >300km ballistic missile limit in the weapon market, China would sell DF missiles to every foreign customer.


Vietnam maintains a close relationship with North Korea. And as everybody knows Vietnam has hundreds if not thousands of scub-b balistic missiles in the arsenal. there are speculations that the nice uncle Kim has transfered missile techs to Vietnam.

if you haven´t noticed: N Korea short/medium/long range nuclear missiles are based on Scud technology.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cnleio

Viet said:


> Vietnam maintains a close relationship with North Korea. And as everybody knows Vietnam has scub-b balistic missiles in the arsenal. there are speculations that the nice uncle Kim has transfered missile techs to Vietnam.
> 
> N Korea nuclear missiles are based on Scud technology.


To develop a long range ballistic missile, it's not as simple as u talk here. For example Guide of ballistic missile, American has GPS / Russian has GLONASS / Chinese has BeiDou satellites positioning system, Vietnamese ZERO.

LOL, Scud ! I remember Saddam also had them. How many Scud missiles VPN has now ? Do today Vietnamese can produce 60s Scud missiles in Vietnam factory ?

BTW do u wanna Vietnam become 2nd North Korea ?


----------



## Viet

xunzi said:


> VIETNAM is NOT a superpower okay? LOLOL


No, as the article speculates the strategy of Vietnam is "creating circumstances" where China would have to accept the status quo or escalate.

We will push you to start the world war III. the G7 will answer by invasion of China.


----------



## cnleio

Viet said:


> We will push you to start the world war III. the G7 will answer by invasion of China.


It seems WWIII is so easy to Vietnam. Have a rest, buddy.


----------



## xunzi

Viet said:


> No, as the article speculates the strategy of Vietnam is "creating circumstances" where China would have to accept the status quo or escalate.
> 
> We will push you to start the world war III. the G7 will answer by invasion of China.


Starting World War III over Vietnam? LOL Do you know how the two World War was started? Vietnam doesn't have any strategic and political cloud to cause any European powers to involve and risk a nuclear fallout. You are insignificant to their national interest. Please, don't talk of WWIII as if you are important to the world. Sit your butt down right now!


----------



## Raphael

Viet said:


> No, as the article speculates the strategy of Vietnam is "creating circumstances" where China would have to accept the status quo or escalate.
> 
> We will push you to start the world war III. the G7 will answer by invasion of China.



You sound stupid. If you launch cruise missiles at China, do you honestly expect anyone to help you when China erases Vietnam? We would have a legitimate casus belli.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

xunzi said:


> *Starting World War III over Vietnam? *LOL Do you know how the two World War was started? Vietnam doesn't have any strategic and political cloud to cause any European powers to involve and risk a nuclear fallout. You are insignificant to their national interest. Please, don't talk of WWIII as if you are important to the world. Sit your butt down right now!


that is the opinion of the writer: John Xenakis, he works for the US think tank Generational Dynamics. Their mission: forecasting America´s destiny and the world 

here is from their website:

_That societies and nations make mistakes and then learn lessons from those mistakes. But generations grow older, retire and die, and are replaced by new generations who are too young to remember those mistakes and those lessons. When that happens, the mistakes are repeated._


----------



## xunzi

Viet said:


> that is the opinion of the writer: John Xenakis, he works for an US think tank. Their mission: forecasting America´s destiny and the world.


The writer is a warmonger, nut neocon.


----------



## Viet

Raphael said:


> You sound stupid. If you launch cruise missiles at China, do you honestly expect anyone to help you when China erases Vietnam? We would have a legitimate casus belli.


No, read again.

the article speculates, the strategy of Vietnam is "creating circumstances" where China would have to accept the status quo or escalate. as China is stronger, she will escalate the conflict and start a war against Vietnam.

as response, Vietnam will launch missiles attacks on Chinese cities.



xunzi said:


> The writer is a warmonger, nut neocon.


you can contact him for comments

John J. Xenakis
100 Memorial Drive Apt 8-13A
Cambridge, MA 02142
Phone: 617-864-0010
E-mail: mailto:john@GenerationalDynamics.com
Web site: http://www.GenerationalDynamics.com


----------



## seven7seven

Vietnam is like a feisty little dog, like a chihuahua, that thinks he's much bigger than he really is, barking at big dog China, who's a great Dane, in comparison. The Great Dane can walk around and lounge anywhere in the Chihuahua's yard, as it pleases, and all the Chihuahua can do is bark some more.


----------



## Raphael

Viet said:


> No, read again.
> 
> the article speculates, the strategy of Vietnam is "creating circumstances" where China would have to accept the status quo or escalate. as China is stronger, she will escalate the conflict and start a war against Vietnam.
> 
> as response, Vietnam will launch missiles attacks on Chinese cities.



The status quo? The current status quo is that China set up an oil rig off its Paracel Islands, which Vietnam hasn't been able to do anything about, despite crying about its fictitious territorial claims everyday. It's certainly a status quo we can accept .


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

*The Chinese people are nationalistic almost to the point of hysteria, and believe that their military can beat anyone, including the US.*
Exactly. Seems they are hysterical. They think they can beat US easily. hahaha chinese!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## pigtaker

Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> *The Chinese people are nationalistic almost to the point of hysteria, and believe that their military can beat anyone, including the US.*
> Exactly. Seems they are hysterical. They think they can beat US easily. hahaha chinese!


you views US as god, we don't.


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

pigtaker said:


> you views US as god, we don't.



US 7th fleet alone enough to make your all army piss in its pants.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## pigtaker

Haha, with DF21, all US carriers withing 4000 km of China coast is sitting ducks, US know that.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## KAL-EL

pigtaker said:


> Haha, with DF21, all US carriers withing 4000 km of China coast is sitting ducks, US know that.



Just like China knows there would be massive US retaliation for using it. China know that.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## pigtaker

KAL-EL said:


> Just like China knows there would be massive US retaliation for using it. China know that.


so what, it is mutual. go to handle north korea, syria and iran first.


----------



## KAL-EL

pigtaker said:


> so what, it is mutual. go to handle north korea, syria and iran first.



Exactly, it's mutual. You're the one who brought it up, not me. I didn't make any such threat talk. You did sir.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

pigtaker said:


> Haha, with DF21, all US carriers withing 4000 km of China coast is sitting ducks, US know that.


this dingding df21 has never proved in sinking a moving carrier or a ship.



Raphael said:


> The status quo? The current status quo is that China set up an oil rig off its Paracel Islands, which Vietnam hasn't been able to do anything about, despite crying about its fictitious territorial claims everyday. It's certainly a status quo we can accept .


NO, the status quo is the one before you placed the fcking oil rig in our water.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## pigtaker

KAL-EL said:


> Exactly, it's mutual. You're the one who brought it up, not me. I didn't make any such threat talk. You did sir.


did I talk to you? you shuold first let viets not borrow your 7th fleet to threat us.


----------



## KAL-EL

pigtaker said:


> did I talk to you? you shuold first let viets not borrow your 7th fleet to threat us.



No, you didn't. I was responding to your talk threat to USN. Only saying that an attack on USN would result in a massive response. I was only responding to your threat, I did not threaten first. As for you saying Viets borrowing 7th fleet, such a thing has not happened has it? No it hasn't. 7th fleet will not be 'borrowed' by anyone sir.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## pigtaker

KAL-EL said:


> No, you didn't. I was responding to your talk threat to USN. Only saying that an attack on USN would result in a massive response. I was only responding to your threat, I did not threaten first. As for you saying Viets borrowing 7th fleet, such a thing has not happened has it? No it hasn't. 7th fleet will not be 'borrowed' by anyone sir.


My post is the respose to the one of viets above me. did you read this whole thread?


----------



## KAL-EL

pigtaker said:


> My post is the respose to the one of viets above me. did you read this whole thread?



Yes, like most threads in this section, there is bellicose talk between all sides unfortunately.


----------



## Raphael

Viet said:


> NO, the status quo is the one before you placed the fcking oil rig in our water.



Evidently, you don't know what 'status quo' means.


----------



## tranquilium

Rechoice said:


> UNCLOS is rules of international law, China signed it you have to obey it, no exception.



We are following the UNCLOS, look at my post at #43


----------



## Peter

xunzi said:


> The writer is a warmonger, nut neocon.



So Chinese are not warmonger, nut neocon!? 



seven7seven said:


> Vietnam is like a feisty little dog, like a chihuahua, that thinks he's much bigger than he really is, barking at big dog China, who's a great Dane, in comparison. The Great Dane can walk around and lounge anywhere in the Chihuahua's yard, as it pleases, and all the Chihuahua can do is bark some more.



Good! Two dogs are barking, biting each others for Uncle Sam's benefits hehehe ....

蚌鷸相持，漁翁得利



Raphael said:


> The status quo? The current status quo is that China set up an oil rig off its Paracel Islands, which Vietnam hasn't been able to do anything about, despite crying about its fictitious territorial claims everyday. It's certainly a status quo we can accept .



Don't be naive kiddo ... it is Vietnam's strategy "_*crying about its fictitious territorial claims everyday*_" to alarm the World's view on China's aggressive warmonger nation. Then Eight Nations Alliance once again (history repeats) invade China. Sad future for China kiddo ...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## OrionHunter

itaskol said:


> we obey the rules in our way


Hmmm...So it's my way or the highway! International rules, laws and resolutions be damned! Strange way for a country to behave more so being a permanent member of the UN Security Council. You got to lead by example. But you're making your own rules which needless to say is setting a bad precedent.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## tranquilium

OrionHunter said:


> Hmmm...So it's my way or the highway! International rules, laws and resolutions be damned! Strange way for a country to behave more so being a permanent member of the UN Security Council. You got to lead by example. But you're making your own rules which needless to say is setting a bad precedent.



Sigh...don't you people read through the posts? Go read post #43. We are following UNCLOS strictly. It is not our fault that it turns out international laws doesn't work in your favor.


----------



## Peter

xunzi said:


> VIETNAM is NOT a superpower okay? LOLOL



Of course, but we are .. the US! Okay hehehehe ...


----------



## अखण्ड भारत!!!

India will aid Vietnam

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## vtnsx

Raphael said:


> You sound stupid. If you launch cruise missiles at China, do you honestly expect anyone to help you when China erases Vietnam? We would have a legitimate casus belli.


More like china is getting erased from history books and the world. Like Genghis Khan did to your people about 1000 years ago.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Raphael

vtnsx said:


> More like china is getting erased from history books and the world. Like Genghis Khan did to your people about 1000 years ago.



Genghis Khan erased us from history? So how do we still exist then ?

Evidently, the US hasn't devoted enough funds to educating their refugees. That must make it hard for creatures reared in the jungle to adjust to American life.


----------



## pigtaker

Peter said:


> Of course, but we are .. the US! Okay hehehehe ...


haha,yes, you are, you can put on a tag of super power touting around, just like your present shouting : yes, we can, we US can be the world leader for the next 100 years.

Do we care? abolutely not. enjoying your self-rubbing.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## xesy

Rechoice said:


> Chinese is sea pirate, do you understand ?


Man, give him/her a break. He/she may come with good intention.


----------



## pigtaker

BoQ77 said:


> Are you Chinese ?
> I could say, no civilian vessels have the right to legally ram to sink other civilian vessel. That's murder.
> And everyone could point out that the site is not belong to any country territorial water.
> 
> *Or Chinese consider The Oil Rig has it own territorial water and EEZ ? Is it a new tool for Chinese neo-imperialism ?*


why are you whinning? first, your boat blocks our way, so we are unable to stop. second, our boat is also a fishing boat. so if you want to play this game next time, bring a bigger one.


----------



## Peter

pigtaker said:


> haha,yes, you are, you can put on a tag of super power touting around, just like your present shouting : yes, we can, we US can be the world leader for the next 100 years.
> 
> Do we care? abolutely not. enjoying your self-rubbing.



Can't predict that far out for the next 100 years but in the next 20 years we US still are the SUPER POWER , not CHINA


----------



## pigtaker

Peter said:


> Can't predict that far out for the next 100 years but in the next 20 years we US still are the SUPER POWER , not CHINA


enjoy it, moron. by the way, we never claim we are super power, don't worry too much.


----------



## pigtaker

BoQ77 said:


> Actually, the Oil Rig is a vessel, like oil tank vessel, for example ... There's no special policy for it.
> Why Chinese keep stating that any other vessels must stay away 8-10nm from their Oil Rig, while their armed fighters approach as near as 30 meters to Japanese unarmed aircrafts ? or Chinese fighter even hit to US aircraft in the international air zone ?
> cause it heavy damage and must process emergency landing ...
> and in latest news, Chinese civilian ships chased and ram to sink much smaller Vietnamese ship.
> 
> China doesn't respect others but forced others to respect security of their ships ( like the Hai Yang Shi You 981 Oil Rig vessel )


Because this rig is worth more than all your navy combined, of course we will take special care of it. Do you have problem with that?


----------



## Aepsilons

KAL-EL said:


> No, you didn't. I was responding to your talk threat to USN. Only saying that an attack on USN would result in a massive response. I was only responding to your threat, I did not threaten first. As for you saying Viets borrowing 7th fleet, such a thing has not happened has it? No it hasn't. 7th fleet will not be 'borrowed' by anyone sir.



Absolutely correct. The USN has the capability to destroy the PLAAN's North, East, and South Fleets.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zero_wing

terranMarine said:


> Referring to Nazi China now eh? I think a mod should be working now.



Not my problem your input was not ask imperial


----------



## Zero_wing

itaskol said:


> we join the organization to protect our interrest. not to obey stupid rules.
> you just $hit of $wine.



Well you have to comply and your bigger moron not knowing that? And wow real orginal oh what your chinese you have no orginality at all



Jlaw said:


> Phillipines have been colonized for eons by Spanish, Chinese, now Americans. You should get used to it by now.



Wow why off topic and eons really way too off but coming from you am not surprise at all your kind is always full of b$ when they run out of lies and excuses to tell folks



tranquilium said:


> Sigh...don't you people read through the posts? Go read post #43. We are following UNCLOS strictly. It is not our fault that it turns out international laws doesn't work in your favor.



Wow so way off and thats our line


----------



## terranMarine

Raphael said:


> Wow zerowing, it took you two years to devise that comeback.



There are those who are so bored that they needed to revive a 2 year old thread just to make a meaningless reply.


----------



## vtnsx

Raphael said:


> Genghis Khan erased us from history? So how do we still exist then ?
> 
> Evidently, the US hasn't devoted enough funds to educating their refugees. That must make it hard for creatures reared in the jungle to adjust to American life.



He erased 60 million chinese. That's a lot of chinese that didn't fight back. lol!!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## senheiser

Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> Oh Uncle Sam is afraid!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taiwanese animation



taiwan claims all the islands as well


----------



## Peter

pigtaker said:


> enjoy it, moron. by the way, we never claim we are super power, don't worry too much.



No, really ... and yet you're acting like one! 

So we are mistaken then .. hehehe ...


----------



## Zsari

Thomas said:


> Actually China has done the US a great favor. It's actions have opened the door for a bigger US presence in the region and the renewed the use of military bases in the Phillipines. Thank you China!
> 
> Now start actually attacking our allies in the region instead chest thumping from planting flags on deserted atols with no defenders. And you might find out how paper tiger the US is. Remember to Obama will most likely be out of office in about 7 months.



If you think a bigger US presence anywhere in the world with renewed military bases is good for the US then you don't know what over-extension means. Come to think of it, China might want the US to devote more resources in military expansion. Afterall, China send couple patrol boats, and US has to counter by spending billions in building bases & patrols half way around the world. More interestingly, China would borrow that billions to the US with interest of course, and paid back with bullions eventually.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> Vietnam needs long range ballistic missiles if we want to bomb Shanghai or Beijing.
> we have enough cruise missiles to target all vessels in the SC Sea and Southern China.
> 
> 
> we are too poor, and therefore have nothing to lose.
> by the way, the article is written by a foreigner, but it comes very close to what we are thinking.



Keep being calm will be better than acting like a keyboard warrior.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## tranquilium

Zero_wing said:


> Wow so way off and thats our line



The UNCLOS says otherwise.


----------



## BoQ77

pigtaker said:


> you views US as god, we don't.



As I watched on TV yesterday evening, Vietnam Deputy Minister of Defense blamed Chinese after they rammed and sunk Vietnamese fishing boat and never think about throwing a liferaft or something to the site. It looks like they didn't attention to the fact that they just sunk a ship with dozens of on board fishermen. It's murder.

And, the Deputy Minister of Defense stated that Vietnam could severely response to China aggressive military acts.
Vietnam has the ability but we still not use that way. But that doesnt mean we would not dare to use it.

He want to invite Chinese media reporters onto Vietnam Coast Guard ships and promise to give them the good conditions to observe the reality on sites, he expect Chinese media would have the different view about the incidents.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

itaskol said:


> we obey the rules in our way





tranquilium said:


> We are following the UNCLOS, look at my post at #43



read your guy post above.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

What the Chinese fear to face at most ? THE TRUTH

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## tranquilium

Rechoice said:


> read your guy post above.



Yes, and I have shown in my post that China is following UNCLOS to the letter.


----------



## BoQ77

As @tranquilium confirm that China follow UNCLOS it's better to solve this in peaceful way, we go to court for UNCLOS application definition.
but I'm afraid that China never dare to go to court, and they tend to act out of laws.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

tranquilium said:


> Yes, and I have shown in my post that China is following UNCLOS to the letter.



Don't troll.

UNCLOS is the international agreement that resulted from the third United Nations Conference on the Law of the Sea. The Law of the Sea Convention defines the rights and responsibilities of nations in their use of the world's oceans, establishing guidelines for businesses, the environment, and the management of marine natural resources.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## tranquilium

Rechoice said:


> Don't troll.
> 
> UNCLOS is the international agreement that resulted from the third United Nations Conference on the Law of the Sea. The Law of the Sea Convention defines the rights and responsibilities of nations in their use of the world's oceans, establishing guidelines for businesses, the environment, and the management of marine natural resources.





BoQ77 said:


> As @tranquilium confirm that China follow UNCLOS it's better to solve this in peaceful way, we go to court for UNCLOS application definition.
> but I'm afraid that China never dare to go to court, and they tend to act out of laws.



Nope, we followed UNCLOS article 298 down to the letter. Let me quote it for your benefit again.

_"Article 298

Optional exceptions to applicability of section 2
_
1. *When signing, ratifying or acceding to this Convention or at any time thereafter, a State may, without prejudice to the obligations arising under section 1, declare in writing that it does not accept any one or more of the procedures provided for in section 2 with respect to one or more of the following categories of disputes:*

(a) (i) disputes concerning the interpretation or application of articles 15, 74 and 83 relating to sea boundary delimitations, or those involving historic bays or titles, provided that a State having made such a declaration shall, when such a dispute arises subsequent to the entry into force of this Convention and where no agreement within a reasonable period of time is reached in negotiations between the parties, at the request of any party to the dispute, accept submission of the matter to conciliation under Annex V, section 2; and provided further that any dispute that necessarily involves the concurrent consideration of any unsettled dispute concerning sovereignty or other rights over continental or insular land territory shall be excluded from such submission;

(ii) after the conciliation commission has presented its report, which shall state the reasons on which it is based, the parties shall negotiate an agreement on the basis of that report; if these negotiations do not result in an agreement, the parties shall, by mutual consent, submit the question to one of the procedures provided for in section 2, unless the parties otherwise agree;

(iii) this subparagraph does not apply to any sea boundary dispute finally settled by an arrangement between the parties, or to any such dispute which is to be settled in accordance with a bilateral or multilateral agreement binding upon those parties;

*(b) disputes concerning military activities, including military activities by government vessels and aircraft engaged in non-commercial service, and disputes concerning law enforcement activities in regard to the exercise of sovereign rights or jurisdiction excluded from the jurisdiction of a court or tribunal under article 297, paragraph 2 or 3;

*
(c) disputes in respect of which the Security Council of the United Nations is exercising the functions assigned to it by the Charter of the United Nations, unless the Security Council decides to remove the matter from its agenda or calls upon the parties to settle it by the means provided for in this Convention."

PREAMBLE TO THE UNITED NATIONS CONVENTION ON THE LAW OF THE SEA


----------



## WuMaoCleverbot

*Experts debunk China's claim on defying int'l rulings*
*Published 5:04 PM, Jun 06, 2014
Updated 5:04 PM, Jun 06, 2014

Facing a historic case filed by the Philippines, China claims it is 'commonplace' to snub international rulings


MANILA, Philippines – China's refusal to answer the Philippines' pleading by December 15, the deadline set by the designated tribunal, revived a common question: What if China snubs a ruling that favors the Philippines?

China, in the first place, told the arbitral tribunal at the Permanent Court of Arbitration (PCA) that it “does not accept the arbitration initiated by the Philippines,” according to the PCA's news release on Tuesday, June 3.

The Asian giant stated this in a note verbale sent to the PCA on May 21, after the tribunal said China should respond to the Philippines' written pleading or memorial by December 15.

China said it is common, after all, to snub international rulings.

In a position paper sent to the media on April 3, Chinese Embassy spokesman Zhang Hua explained: “In international practice, when their major national interests or positions are involved, many countries have taken the position of not accepting the jurisdiction nor enforcing the rulings of related international litigation or arbitration. Among them are both big countries like the United States and small and medium-sized countries. This is a commonplace practice.”

“To accuse China of disobeying international law on the ground that it has not accepted the arbitration is an act of applying 'double standards.' This is not fair to the Chinese side. And it does not conform to the true spirit of international rule of law. In fact, and much to the contrary, China's refusal to accept the arbitration submitted by the Philippine side is an act truly in keeping with the law,” Zhang added.

'Compliance at 95%'

Experts, however, debunked these claims by China.

The Philippines' lawyer in its case against China, Paul Reichler, said losing parties in international cases comply “at least 95%” of the time.

Dr Lowell Bautista, a lecturer at the University of Wollongong in Australia, also contradicted China's claims on international rulings.

In an e-mail to Rappler, Bautista said, “China’s assertion that it is 'commonplace practice for countries to ignore the rulings of international litigation and arbitration' is definitely without any factual, historical, legal or philosophical basis.”

“On the contrary, compliance with international law, including the rulings of international institutions, adjudicative or otherwise, is the norm in international relations. The whole structure of the international legal system is founded on the voluntary compliance of sovereign states of international legal norms despite the absence of a global coercive power or institution that ensures compliance,” said Bautista, who specializes in territorial and maritime issues in the South China Sea.

True, he added, international courts can't enforce their decisions.

The way other experts put it, international courts do not have police powers.

Reputation at stake

“However, states, by and large and in general, do comply,” Bautista said. “Compliance is ensured because states are rational and self-interested in nature. Therefore, states will comply with international law to maintain their standing and reputation as good and law-abiding members of the international community or to avoid direct or indirect sanctions following an infraction or non-compliance.”

“To suggest otherwise, as China does in its statement, is not only dangerous and subversive, it is also a threat to the peace, security and stability of international relations,” he explained.

International law expert Dr Suzette Suarez, who used to work at the International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea, pointed out that “there has been substantial compliance with decisions of international courts.”

Suarez cited a journal article in 2004, titled “Compliance with Final Judgments of the International Court of Justice Since 1987.”

The article, authored Colter Paulson, said commentators on the ICJ “note that cases of noncompliance with final judgments are very rare.”

“Outright defiance has not been asserted in any case; rather, in cases where total compliance was not achieved, the noncompliance was slight,” Paulson said in his introduction.

“The following 4 factors... contribute to such compliance: external political influence, the internal need for a definitive solution, the substance of the judgment issued, and internal political influence,” the author said.

In a forum, Reichler warned there “is a heavy price to pay for a state that defies an international court order, or a judgment of an arbitral tribunal that is seen, that is recognized, in the international community as legitimate, as fair, as correct, as appropriate.” – Rappler.com

Experts debunk China's claim on defying int'l rulings
*

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Huan

Are you kidding me? Are they really saying it's good for the "international community" to decide for and dictate each country's sovereignty from now on? Would you really allow an overseas entity to control the affairs of your home territory?

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## OrionHunter

How can a verdict be enforced on a country like China? It can't. What's Philippines going to do if China doesn't cooperate or comply even on a verdict by an international court / tribunal? 

Utter waste of time. The only way is to sort out problems mutually to the satisfaction of both countries.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## ViXuyen

Viet Nam and China should do island swap. We give you the biggest Spratly island that we hold while you give us 12 Paracel islands that you robbed from us in 1974.


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

No.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## DT1010

NO

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ViXuyen

Chinese-Dragon said:


> No.


 Why not?


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

DT1010 said:


> NO



Yes.

Wait, I mean no.



ViXuyen said:


> Why not?



Yes.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## GeHAC

NO

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## bolo

ViXuyen said:


> Viet Nam and China should do island swap. We give you the biggest Spratly island that we hold while you give us 12 Paracel islands that you robbed from us in 1974.


why don't we just take over your biggest island and let you live to work for us on the island?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cnleio

I don't think it's a good idea, i mean China has controlled whole XiSha/Paracel islands it's a un-disputed area, not like NanSha/Spratly island the situation much complex than Paracel islands.

NanSha/ Spratly islands were separated by many nations, including Vietnam and China. This swap islands idea will make XiSha/ Paracel islands as complex as NanSha/Paracel islands, a un-disputed area become a disputed islands, it's not good for China.

And XiSha/ Paracel islands is much closer to China HaiNan province than NanSha/ Paracel islands, it's easy for Chinese to govern and defense islands.

Chinese need oil underwater, do u really think Chinese wanna waste our money and ppl to control those deserted & no fresh water islands ???

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Tractor

It' not a matter who control people from both countries free to go is the point but firstly both countries should forget the oil.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

lol, do you think we are stupid or what?

You wanna swap this:






for this:





Nope, we will keep Xisha for ourselves. Since our biggest space launch center will be soon opened in Hainan, we will keep Xisha to make sure it is totally secured.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Tractor

But Vietnamese are welcome,we withstand them.


ChineseTiger1986 said:


> lol, do you think we are stupid or what?
> 
> You wanna swap this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> for this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, we will keep Xisha for ourselves. Since our biggest space launch center will be soon opened in Hainan, we will keep Xisha to make sure it is totally secured.


----------



## ViXuyen

Read my post again, this is the largest Spratly island that we hold and this island has fresh water


----------



## bolo

Since it's offered by a Viet, I say a big Hell No

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Tractor

ViXuyen said:


> Read my post again, this is the largest Spratly island that we hold and this island has fresh water


What's your attitude,Chinese are welcome there?Or you only interested in getting the lost islands firstly.


----------



## ViXuyen

cnleio said:


> I don't think it's a good idea, i mean China has controlled whole XiSha/Paracel islands it's a un-disputed area, not like NanSha/Spratly island the situation much complex than Paracel islands.
> 
> NanSha/ Spratly islands were separated by many nations, including Vietnam and China. This swap islands idea will make XiSha/ Paracel islands as complex as NanSha/Paracel islands, a un-disputed area become a disputed islands, it's not good for China.
> 
> And XiSha/ Paracel islands is much closer to China HaiNan province than NanSha/ Paracel islands, it's easy for Chinese to govern and defense islands.
> 
> Chinese need oil underwater, do u really think Chinese wanna waste our money and ppl to control those deserted & no fresh water islands ???


 If Viet Nam takes back 12 islands from 1974, then there is no longer dispute in the Paracels. China still keeps the Eastern side of the Paracels with the biggest islands of this chain. The only dispute is in the Spratlys.


----------



## Rechoice

No.


----------



## Tractor

No but share,OK?


----------



## cirr

Models of future Chinese law enforcement（CCG、CMS、MSA、CFA etc）vessels on display：

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cnleio

ViXuyen said:


> If Viet Nam takes back 12 islands from 1974, then there is no longer dispute in the Paracels. China still keeps the Eastern side of the Paracels with the biggest islands of this chain. The only dispute is in the Spratlys.


Of course, everything is possible.

If vietnam really wanna take back 12 islands which China Navy win the battle, Vietnam should provide more benefits to China not only one island in Spratly islands. Anyway the case like swap islands between Vietnam and China, it's government affair what we discuss on PDF is not important. If China government and Vietnam government will say DONE, it's OKay.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## JSCh

NO. We need the Paracel for this,






Ok, I am just joking.


----------



## Beast

China will take everything belongs to her. Not even an inch of land will be lost.


----------



## cirr

Type 032 Experimental Submarine model on display：


























Note the 4-cell VLS in the forward area of the sub。

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## rott

Why are you guys talking like you all represent PRC or Vietnam?


----------



## cirr

XG-2 Unmanned Surface Vessel（USV）：






with anti-ship and anti-aircraft missiles。The pic above shows an old model going through tests。

You guys are gonna see lots of this baby in the SCS。


----------



## Viet

the VN government approves a new procurement for 2015 for $700m:
- 4 new 2,500 tons and 15 new 1,500 tons patrol vessels
- 3,000 steel hull fishing vessels

NICE: these 3,000 steel vessels can be used for ramming and other purposes such as carrying antiship missiles 

In medium term, we will build up to *30,000* steel vessels.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

tranquilium said:


> Nope, we followed UNCLOS article 298 down to the letter. Let me quote it for your benefit again.
> 
> _"Article 298
> 
> Optional exceptions to applicability of section 2
> _
> 1. *When signing, ratifying or acceding to this Convention or at any time thereafter, a State may, without prejudice to the obligations arising under section 1, declare in writing that it does not accept any one or more of the procedures provided for in section 2 with respect to one or more of the following categories of disputes:*
> 
> (a) (i) disputes concerning the interpretation or application of articles 15, 74 and 83 relating to sea boundary delimitations, or those involving historic bays or titles, provided that a State having made such a declaration shall, when such a dispute arises subsequent to the entry into force of this Convention and where no agreement within a reasonable period of time is reached in negotiations between the parties, at the request of any party to the dispute, accept submission of the matter to conciliation under Annex V, section 2; and provided further that any dispute that necessarily involves the concurrent consideration of any unsettled dispute concerning sovereignty or other rights over continental or insular land territory shall be excluded from such submission;
> 
> (ii) after the conciliation commission has presented its report, which shall state the reasons on which it is based, the parties shall negotiate an agreement on the basis of that report; if these negotiations do not result in an agreement, the parties shall, by mutual consent, submit the question to one of the procedures provided for in section 2, unless the parties otherwise agree;
> 
> (iii) this subparagraph does not apply to any sea boundary dispute finally settled by an arrangement between the parties, or to any such dispute which is to be settled in accordance with a bilateral or multilateral agreement binding upon those parties;
> 
> *(b) disputes concerning military activities, including military activities by government vessels and aircraft engaged in non-commercial service, and disputes concerning law enforcement activities in regard to the exercise of sovereign rights or jurisdiction excluded from the jurisdiction of a court or tribunal under article 297, paragraph 2 or 3;
> *
> (c) disputes in respect of which the Security Council of the United Nations is exercising the functions assigned to it by the Charter of the United Nations, unless the Security Council decides to remove the matter from its agenda or calls upon the parties to settle it by the means provided for in this Convention."
> 
> PREAMBLE TO THE UNITED NATIONS CONVENTION ON THE LAW OF THE SEA



SCS is not histrical bay,

Why china does not go arbitration with Philippine ? China will be loser, kid.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Rechoice

joke.


----------



## Viet

not realistic

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Raphael

It seems neither Chinese nor Vietnamese like this plan. So let's not do anything nobody wants.


----------



## athlon

cirr said:


> Models of future Chinese law enforcement（CCG、CMS、MSA、CFA etc）vessels on display：



We already built something like that 2 years ago.










And FYI, recently the 2nd version is in process..

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

Raphael said:


> It seems neither Chinese nor Vietnamese like this plan. So let's not do anything nobody wants.



but china did wrong thing here in ECS and SCS, what enemy of China want China do.

Chinese is a short term viewer.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Soryu

crazy ideal ....

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Tractor

Rechoice said:


> but china did wrong thing here in ECS and SCS, what enemy of China want China do.
> 
> Chinese is a short term viewer.


Enemy of China it is which now occupying large piece of land of China.
You know the Chinese government always avoid the truly severe,important and difficult thing and like dealing with the easy ones which even could be made up.


----------



## sweetgrape

Hehe, swaping Chinese islands with China, think China is stupid as Vietnam!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Edison Chen

Vixuyen, you are too naive.


----------



## Tractor

sweetgrape said:


> Hehe, swaping Chinese islands with China, think China is stupid as Vietnam!


But why not?


Edison Chen said:


> Vixuyen, you are too naive.


No,a good option she delivered.


----------



## Zero_wing

tranquilium said:


> The UNCLOS says otherwise.



Oh my god so stupid


----------



## Snomannen

The best solution is to give those islands to the third part, such as Laos or Germany.


----------



## sweetgrape

Tractor said:


> But why not?
> 
> No,a good option she delivered.


Maybe my express not clearly, I mean, all Chinese islands, why should we do the swap with a thief?


----------



## Raphael

Rechoice said:


> but china did wrong thing here in ECS and SCS, what enemy of China want China do.
> 
> Chinese is a short term viewer.



Our enemies want us to drill around our islands? Then why are they crying about it?


----------



## Tractor

Raphael said:


> Our enemies want us to drill around our islands? Then why are they crying about it?


Enemies crying really a matter and good chance to show our dear government's determination and strength,huh?



KirovAirship said:


> The best solution is to give those islands to the third part, such as Laos or Germany.


Sure,or better give them to some caribbean countries to operate.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

athlon said:


> We already built something like that 2 years ago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And FYI, recently the 2nd version is in process..



Good for you。

The PLAN already has 3 such ships for auxiliary service and are planning to build more and larger crafts（in the thousands of tons）。As a matter of fact，a proposal was once afoot to build triple-hulled frigate but it was turned down by the very conservative PLAN High Command。

Now agencies such as CCG and MSA also intend to introduce trimarans for maritime law enforcement。


----------



## ViXuyen

Tractor said:


> No,a good option she delivered.


We should swap.


----------



## Edison Chen

Tractor said:


> But why not?
> 
> No,a good option she delivered.



She? I thought vixuyen was a guy. 

I always find your opinions quite strange.


----------



## bolo

KirovAirship said:


> The best solution is to give those islands to the third part, such as Laos or Germany.


Give it to Hong kong

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ViXuyen

Those steel-plated fishing trawlers will cost us $7 billion VND or $350,000 usd each. But hey, territory is measured by sweat and blood, not by money.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## GR!FF!N

make a collection of these islands and create "People's Republic Democratic Union of Islands of Discontent Sea"..hope it'll make everyone happy.plus,every country in this dispute should give $2 billion funding to maintain this country and get oil and gas in return.no name of sea(be it Chinese name or Philippines name or Vietnamese name,nor "Type" of country can be disputed,as it'll hold both "People's Republic" and "Democratic").


now,seriously,

all these parties should go to PCA and solve the problem for once and for all,and that too,multilaterally,so that there could be no dispute at all.whats matter with you guys...


----------



## tranquilium

Rechoice said:


> SCS is not histrical bay,
> 
> 
> Zero_wing said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh my god so stupid
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why china does not go arbitration with Philippine ? China will be loser, kid.
Click to expand...


Do I have to go to court with you if you don't even have a case? Of course not. If you have problem with UNCLOS, then you should take it up with the ones made the laws.


----------



## Zero_wing

tranquilium said:


> Do I have to go to court with you if you don't even have a case? Of course not. If you have problem with UNCLOS, then you should take it up with the ones made the laws.



Huh? i guess your too stupid to understand the difference but hey thats a chinaman for you i does not understand things like one UNCLOS does recognized historical claims which the whole bases two building things on refes does not make it an island three we are the only nation who first had people in this islands in fact its already a working municipality of palawa so your invading four the Archipelagic doctrine and the following Continental shelf, [URL='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclusive_economic_zone']Exclusive economic zones (EEZs), Contiguous zone etc Hey its not my fault your stupid to understand things [/URL]


----------



## EastSea

ViXuyen said:


> Read my post again, this is the largest Spratly island that we hold and this island has fresh water



This is most important Island in East Sea, bro. With position òf Truong Sa Island, Itu Abe and Gacma is useless. We can not do that.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Rechoice

tranquilium said:


> Do I have to go to court with you if you don't even have a case? Of course not. If you have problem with UNCLOS, then you should take it up with the ones made the laws.



You have go to court fist with Philippine for the stupid nine dash claim. We will bring you in to court a second step, china historical claim for the Island is fake.

The law made by people in the world, not China.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## tranquilium

Rechoice said:


> You have go to court fist with Philippine for the stupid nine dash claim. We will bring you in to court a second step, china historical claim for the Island is fake.
> 
> The law made by people in the world, not China.





Zero_wing said:


> Huh? i guess your too stupid to understand the difference but hey thats a chinaman for you i does not understand things like one UNCLOS does recognized historical claims which the whole bases two building things on refes does not make it an island three we are the only nation who first had people in this islands in fact its already a working municipality of palawa so your invading four the Archipelagic doctrine and the following Continental shelf, Exclusive economic zones (EEZs), Contiguous zone etc Hey its not my fault your stupid to understand things



Like I said, you don't have a case in the first place. You can claim you are the creator of the world for all we care. The thing is, you still don't have a case. If you feel any Chinese claim is false, you are free to build a case on it, but you have to actually have a case for us to humor it.


----------



## Rechoice

Raphael said:


> Our enemies want us to drill around our islands? Then why are they crying about it?



enemies of china are insulting China . China is joker, idiot hooligan when you drill oil in our EZZ. Next time China will be crying when Japan, US ... will punish you like uneducated kid.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## tranquilium

Rechoice said:


> enemies of china are insulting China . China is joker, idiot hooligan when you drill oil in our EZZ. Next time China will be crying when Japan, US ... will punish you like uneducated kid.



Yeah, what will the poor Chinese do, their might "enemies" are insulting them! Our feeling must be terribly hurt. 

Gee, maybe we should just stick to what are *doing *right now, like keep drilling for petroleum in South China sea. I heard there is this wonderful idea called action speaks louder than words.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

tranquilium said:


> Like I said, you don't have a case in the first place. You can claim you are the creator of the world for all we care. The thing is, you still don't have a case. If you feel any Chinese claim is false, you are free to build a case on it, but you have to actually have a case for us to humor it.



You are brainwashed boy in China. China ís not creator for this world. In fact in your history, your laws made by Manchurian untill 1911 ACE. Without interference of Soviet Union and USA in WW II, China is divided and Japan control you up to now. Who could tell a rumor about you, China man ?

The international law granted to China a right of supper power to keep peace for this world, if China will violate it people in the world will punish you.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

tranquilium said:


> Yeah, what will the poor Chinese do, their might "enemies" are insulting them! Our feeling must be terribly hurt.
> 
> Gee, maybe we should just stick to what are *doing *right now, like keep drilling for petroleum in South China sea. I heard there is this wonderful idea called action speaks louder than words.



when hooligan is geting mad, he does feel nothing other than he masturbate himself that he is strong. China could do it to bully Viet and Pynoy, but China can not do in same manner with Japan and USA.

How pathetic is China.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cirr

China's land reclamation activities in the SCS extend to Andajiao（Eldad Reef，located top right corner below）

















Do more，talk less。


----------



## BoQ77

@cirr : us would support Ph to build much bigger base in Scarborough shoal and strengthen all islands Ph controlling as Treaty. 
Then how you react.


----------



## cirr

BoQ77 said:


> @cirr : us would support Ph to build much bigger base in Scarborough shoal and strengthen all islands Ph controlling as Treaty.
> Then how you react.



We don't give a sh1t about what the US say or do。

We just carry on doing what’s right for us。

And when it comes to engineering，no country can build bigger than China。Not the US。Not Japan。Nor the two combined。

You guys will feel sorry and betrayed if you think the US would come to your aid in any substantial way。There is too much(business and all that) going on between the US and China under the table。Too much intertwined。

The US know very well that Russia will come out top and pretty if China and the US are ever involved in a major war which is likely to last for decades. The US is solely interested oriented. The Americans are certainly NOT stupid.

The US might be gone tomorrow but China will always be where it is today。


----------



## athlon

hmm


Rechoice said:


> You are brainwashed boy in China. China ís not creator for this world. In fact in your history, your laws made by Manchurian untill 1911 ACE. Without interference of Soviet Union and USA in WW II, China is divided and Japan control you up to now. Who could tell a rumor about you, China man ?
> 
> The international law granted to China a right of supper power to keep peace for this world, if China will violate it people in the world will punish you.


hmm interesting, power syndrome I think?


----------



## Zero_wing

tranquilium said:


> Like I said, you don't have a case in the first place. You can claim you are the creator of the world for all we care. The thing is, you still don't have a case. If you feel any Chinese claim is false, you are free to build a case on it, but you have to actually have a case for us to humor it.



Ok i guess its not point to teach the stupid to understand civil matters thanks for proving our point



cirr said:


> We don't give a sh1t about what the US say or do。
> 
> We just carry on doing what’s right for us。
> 
> And when it comes to engineering，no country can build bigger than China。Not the US。Not Japan。Nor the two combined。
> 
> You guys will feel sorry and betrayed if you think the US would come to your aid in any substantial way。There is too much(business and all that) going on between the US and China under the table。Too much intertwined。
> 
> The US know very well that Russia will come out top and pretty if China and the US are ever involved in a major war which is likely to last for decades. The US is solely interested oriented. The Americans are certainly NOT stupid.
> 
> The US might be gone tomorrow but China will always be where it is today。



Funny the Nazi, Imperial Japan said the very same thing


----------



## peaceful

ViXuyen said:


> Viet Nam and China should do island swap. We give you the biggest Spratly island that we hold while you give us 12 Paracel islands that you robbed from us in 1974.



the good news for vietnamese is we Chinese no longer want your capital city. it was demonstrated during the war of 1979 - we didn't take your capital city.

what is the point arguing with these brain washed vietnamese? 

they are fxxking poor for a good reason.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

*Philippine and Vietnamese Troops Drink Beer on Disputed South China Sea Island*
By Manuel Mogato on 03:18 pm Jun 08, 2014





_China also claims 90 percent of the 3.5 million sq km (1.35 million sq mile) South China Sea, its reach displayed on its official maps with a so-called nine-dash line that extends deep into the maritime heart of Southeast Asia. (AFP Photo)_

*Vietnamese and Philippine troops got together on a disputed island in the South China Sea on Sunday to play football and volleyball – as well as drink beer – in a display of unity that will not go unnoticed in Beijing.*

Philippine naval officials billed the event on the Vietnamese-held island as a chance to show the world there can be harmony in the South China Sea despite a web of overlapping claims to the potentially energy-rich waters.

The gathering on Southwest Cay in the Spratly archipelago also symbolizes how once-suspicious neighbors are cooperating in the face of China’s growing assertiveness in disputed waters.

About 40 Philippine naval personnel sailed to the island for the day-long event, Philippine naval officials said.

Coincidentally, the Philippines occupied Southwest Cay until early 1975, when troops from then South Vietnam seized it after Philippine forces sailed a couple of miles to Northeast Cay, which was under Manila’s control, for a party.

The South Vietnamese were soon displaced by the communist forces of a victorious Hanoi.

Besides playing soccer and volleyball, the troops held a tug-of-war competition, put on cultural shows involving singing and dancing and shared food and beer, said Philippine naval spokesman, Lieutenant-Commander Gerard Fabic.

In a joint statement, the Philippine and Vietnamese navies said the sport and cultural presentations would help foster friendly ties.

“This serves as a model of cooperation for other navies to emulate,” said the statement, without naming any other countries.

The gathering underscores the growing cooperation between Hanoi and Manila – the two capitals most feeling China’s wrath over the South China Sea – even though both still claim Southwest Cay and dispute other islands. Southwest Cay is almost equidistant from Vietnam and the Philippines.

“We are not only bringing down walls of mistrust and suspicion with one another but building trust and confidence towards peacefully resolving our competing claims,” said a senior Philippine naval official, who declined to be identified.

*The Philippines, Malaysia and Brunei each claim some of the Spratlys, while China, Taiwan and Vietnam claim the whole chain.*

China also claims 90 percent of the 3.5 million sq km South China Sea, its reach displayed on its official maps with a so-called nine-dash line that extends deep into the maritime heart of Southeast Asia.

Beijing accuses the other claimants of stirring up trouble in the region.

Diplomats and experts have described the nascent partnership between Hanoi and Manila as part of a web of evolving relationships across Asia that are being driven by fear of China as well as doubts among some, especially in Japan, over the U.S. commitment to the region.

They have said there were increasing levels of trust at a working level, as countries find that China’s projection of naval power into Asia’s waters is driving them together.

Most recently, Vietnam expressed interest in a legal case Manila filed at an international arbitration tribunal in late March, challenging China over its claims in the South China Sea.

Indeed, Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung said last month his government was considering taking legal action against China following the deployment of a Chinese oil rig to waters that Hanoi also claims. Vietnamese officials have not elaborated.

*The Philippine and Vietnamese navies recently agreed to expand cooperation in disputed areas and a Vietnamese guided missile cruiser will soon visit Manila, Philippine naval officials have said.*

_Reuters_

Philippine and Vietnamese Troops Drink Beer on Disputed South China Sea Island | The Jakarta Globe


----------



## yusheng

Foreign Ministry Spokesperson Hong Lei's Regular Press Conference on June 5, 2014
Q: The G7 Summit issued an announcement on June 4 expressing concerns over the current situation in the East China Sea and the South China Sea. How does China respond?

A:China is a staunch champion of peace and stability in the East China Sea and the South China Sea, cooperation and development of regional countries as well as the principles and purposes of the UN Charter, basic norms governing international relations and basic principles of international laws. The last thing China wants to see is any turmoil in its neighboring areas including the East China Sea and the South China Sea. China strongly upholds the territorial sovereignty, maritime rights and interests as well as national security, and always safeguards the order and navigation freedom in relevant airspace and waters in accordance with international laws and international practices. China is committed to solving relevant disputes concerning the East China Sea and the South China Sea with countries directly concerned through bilateral coordination and negotiation on the basis of respecting historical facts and the international laws. This is an important consensus reached between China and relevant countries, and is also in line with the interests and aspirations of the majority of countries and peoples in this region. However, as for the provocative acts taken by certain country to willfully violate China's sovereignty and rights and interests as well as deliberately undermine maritime peace and stability, China will respond with firm resolve. 

Practices have proven again and again that negotiation and coordination between parties concerned is the most effective way to solve the disputes; the internationalization of relevant disputes as well as the interference and involvement of irrelevant party is neither helpful in solving the disputes nor in realizing regional peace and stability, only making the problem more difficult to settle. Countries outside this region should respect facts on relevant controversial issues and adhere to an objective attitude instead of deliberately hyping up tension, stirring up confrontation or complicating the regional situation. 

Q: Since the 981 drilling platform changed the location and started the second phase operation, the Vietnamese side has been disrupting Chinese operations on the sea. The Vietnamese leaders and officials said many times on international occasions that China's operations fall within the exclusive economic zone and the continental shelf of Vietnam, China's operations violate Vietnamese sovereignty and jurisdiction and Vietnam is considering legal actions on relevant issues. What is China's response?

A: After conducting forceful disruptions of the first phase operation of the 981 drilling platform located in the contiguous zone of the Xisha Islands, the Vietnamese side has kept deploying large numbers of vessels including armed vessels to continuously disrupt the second phase normal operation of the 981 drilling platform since May 27. Up to now, the Vietnamese side has altogether rammed into Chinese government vessels for safeguarding security on the scene for over 1,200 times, and has set up large floating objects and obstacles. This action grossly infringes upon China's sovereignty, sovereign rights and jurisdiction, jeopardizes the security of Chinese personnel and facilities, violates international laws and basic norms governing international relations, and undermines navigation freedom and safety in this water. China is strongly outraged by and firmly opposed to this. 

The location of the 981 drilling platform operation in its second phase is in the southeast to the Zhongjian Island of China's Xisha Islands. It is 17 nautical miles away from the baseline of territorial sea of the Xisha Islands and 160 nautical miles from Vietnam, falling indisputably within the contiguous zone of China's Xisha Islands just as the location of the first phase operation. China's operation fully falls within China's sovereignty, sovereign rights and jurisdiction. The exploration work including 2-D and 3-D seismetic research and well site exploration conducted by Chinese companies in the coastal waters of the Xisha Islands has been ongoing for 10 years. The drilling activities carried out this time are routine continuation of relevant exploration work and are fully legal and legitimate.

In response to the provocations of the Vietnamese side, China has maintained maximum restraint and sent government vessels and civilian vessels to uphold the order of normal operation on the sea and safeguard the security of Chinese personnel and facilities. However, the Vietnamese side takes advantage of China's exercise of restraint to complicate the situation and escalate the tension, and further intensifies their actions without any restriction. Here I want to point out that China has firm and unflinching resolve in safeguarding national sovereignty, maritime rights and interests, international laws and the basic norms governing international relations. We will continue to resolutely contain Vietnam's dangerous actions against China's drilling platform. Vietnam's attempt to create disputes on international occasions cannot succeed. Any action taken by the Vietnamese side to magnify and complicate the situation can only harm its own interests. What the Vietnamese side should do at the present is to give up its illusions, immediately stop all provocations and withdraw all vessels from the scene so as to restore tranquility to the sea as soon as possible. 


Q: Yesterday the Vietnamese TV station presented a footage showing Chinese vessels chasing down and ramming into two Vietnamese vessels, causing one of them to sink. Does this say that China is the one who takes aggressive actions in the South China Sea? How does China respond to this?

A: I have just briefed you on the current situation when talking about the Vietnamese side's continuous ramming into China's guarding vessels protecting the second phase operation of the drilling platform in the southern waters off China's Zhongjian Island. I can give you a more specific answer, and that is in relevant waters, Chinese vessels are defending and the Vietnamese vessels are attacking. Chinese vessels are only 17 nautical miles away from China's Zhongjian Island, while the Vietnamese vessels marched as far as nearly 160 nautical miles to the scene. Which one is aggressively ramming into the other on the scene? Which one is stirring up tension on the scene? I believe the answer is very clear. 



After the press conference, some journalist asked that the recent severely violent crimes in Vietnam against foreign companies involving beating, smashing, looting and burning have caused heavy casualties and enormous property losses to China, and how is Vietnam doing in punishing the perpetrators and making compensations?

The severely violent crimes against foreign companies involving beating, smashing, looting and burning in Vietnam have caused heavy casualties and property losses to Chinese companies. But up to now, the Vietnamese side has not made compensation to Chinese people and companies being hurt in this incident. The Chinese side urges the Vietnamese side to take concrete and effective measures to safeguard the security of life and property as well as the legitimate rights and interests of Chinese personnel and institutions in Vietnam, severely punish the perpetrators and fully compensate for China's losses.


----------



## DT1010

peaceful said:


> the good news for vietnamese is we Chinese no longer want your capital city. it was demonstrated during the war of 1979 - we didn't take your capital city.
> 
> what is the point arguing with these brain washed vietnamese?
> 
> they are fxxking poor for a good reason.


i have heared this propaganda 1xxxxxxxxxxxxx times
"we withdrew because we love peace"
"we withdrew because we had completed missions" what missions?
"we withdrew and didn't attack your capital because we needn't to do that thing"

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## yusheng

“981”钻井平台作业：越南的挑衅和中国的立场

Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the People's Republic of China
“981”钻井平台作业：越南的挑衅和中国的立场
（供稿） （供稿） 
2014/06/08

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## cnleio

These paper evidence just for reference in the court, in real world we have CHINA COAST GUARD and 10,000ton patrolling ships to protect our XiSha islands. And strong China shipbuilding industry can provide more ships.

CHINA COAST GUARD












CFA 15,000ton patrolling ships, retired PLAN Ocean Supply Ship. 










4,000ton patrolling ships, retired PLAN warships








China shipbuilding industry building more ships.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Beast

China is using a strategy to bog down all its rival economy progress by forcing them into unnecessary and expensive military build up which corrode their economy expansion. And some countries are stupidly suck into this game trying to match China unit by unit.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Soryu

I never see this map. PTS or real !? hard to said.





About these text, it's still not prove that we admitted Spratly and Paracel belong to China. The book was got info from Chinese source, and inform "the arc of Island from Xisha, Nansha to Hainan, Taiwan ... create the great wall to protect mainland China"

The map and the text were took from two difference book, so it's very weak point to prove Chinese claim (If the map was real ).
Plus, it's very not logical, when Vietnamese alway said not recognize China 11-dash-lines (became 9 later) map and Chinese claim about Spratly and Paracel in official way, but inform Vietnam people that Paracel and Spratly Island belong to China (again, if the map was real ) !???


----------



## ViXuyen

Soryu said:


> I never see this map. PTS or real !? hard to said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> About these text, it's still not prove that we admitted Spratly and Paracel belong to China. The book was got info from Chinese source, and inform "the arc of Island from Xisha, Nansha to Hainan, Taiwan ... create the great wall to protect mainland China"
> 
> The map and the text were took from two difference book, so it's very weak point to prove Chinese claim (If the map was real ).
> Plus, it's very not logical, when Vietnamese alway said not recognize China 11-dash-lines (became 9 later) map and Chinese claim about Spratly and Paracel in official way, but inform Vietnam people that Paracel and Spratly Island belong to China (again, if the map was real ) !???


Doesn't matter, the maps of our Imperial Dynasty clearly shows Paracels & Spratly are part of Viet Nam's territory while the map of Imperial Qing clearly did not show the two island chains were part of their territory.

Now, my maternal hometown Da Nang is missing a piece (Paracel islands)

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

cnleio said:


> These paper evidence just for reference in the court, in real world we have CHINA COAST GUARD and 10,000ton patrolling ships to protect our XiSha islands. And strong China shipbuilding industry can provide more ships.
> 
> CFA 15,000ton patrolling ships, retired PLAN Ocean Supply Ship.


LOL, so this is "so-call" "newly build" 15000 tons patrol ship which so many Chinese keep swank about it so much ... 

If you considered those papers can use for reference in the court, so Could Chinese dare to go to the court if Vietnam brought it on international court !?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

yusheng said:


> Foreign Ministry Spokesperson Hong Lei's Regular Press Conference on June 5, 2014
> Q: The G7 Summit issued an announcement on June 4 expressing concerns over the current situation in the East China Sea and the South China Sea. How does China respond?
> 
> A:China is a staunch champion of peace and stability in the East China Sea and the South China Sea, cooperation and development of regional countries as well as the principles and purposes of the UN Charter, basic norms governing international relations and basic principles of international laws. The last thing China wants to see is any turmoil in its neighboring areas including the East China Sea and the South China Sea. China strongly upholds the territorial sovereignty, maritime rights and interests as well as national security, and always safeguards the order and navigation freedom in relevant airspace and waters in accordance with international laws and international practices. China is committed to solving relevant disputes concerning the East China Sea and the South China Sea with countries directly concerned through bilateral coordination and negotiation on the basis of respecting historical facts and the international laws. This is an important consensus reached between China and relevant countries, and is also in line with the interests and aspirations of the majority of countries and peoples in this region. However, as for the provocative acts taken by certain country to willfully violate China's sovereignty and rights and interests as well as deliberately undermine maritime peace and stability, China will respond with firm resolve.
> 
> Practices have proven again and again that negotiation and coordination between parties concerned is the most effective way to solve the disputes; the internationalization of relevant disputes as well as the interference and involvement of irrelevant party is neither helpful in solving the disputes nor in realizing regional peace and stability, only making the problem more difficult to settle. Countries outside this region should respect facts on relevant controversial issues and adhere to an objective attitude instead of deliberately hyping up tension, stirring up confrontation or complicating the regional situation.
> 
> Q: Since the 981 drilling platform changed the location and started the second phase operation, the Vietnamese side has been disrupting Chinese operations on the sea. The Vietnamese leaders and officials said many times on international occasions that China's operations fall within the exclusive economic zone and the continental shelf of Vietnam, China's operations violate Vietnamese sovereignty and jurisdiction and Vietnam is considering legal actions on relevant issues. What is China's response?
> 
> A: After conducting forceful disruptions of the first phase operation of the 981 drilling platform located in the contiguous zone of the Xisha Islands, the Vietnamese side has kept deploying large numbers of vessels including armed vessels to continuously disrupt the second phase normal operation of the 981 drilling platform since May 27. Up to now, the Vietnamese side has altogether rammed into Chinese government vessels for safeguarding security on the scene for over 1,200 times, and has set up large floating objects and obstacles. This action grossly infringes upon China's sovereignty, sovereign rights and jurisdiction, jeopardizes the security of Chinese personnel and facilities, violates international laws and basic norms governing international relations, and undermines navigation freedom and safety in this water. China is strongly outraged by and firmly opposed to this.
> 
> The location of the 981 drilling platform operation in its second phase is in the southeast to the Zhongjian Island of China's Xisha Islands. It is 17 nautical miles away from the baseline of territorial sea of the Xisha Islands and 160 nautical miles from Vietnam, falling indisputably within the contiguous zone of China's Xisha Islands just as the location of the first phase operation. China's operation fully falls within China's sovereignty, sovereign rights and jurisdiction. The exploration work including 2-D and 3-D seismetic research and well site exploration conducted by Chinese companies in the coastal waters of the Xisha Islands has been ongoing for 10 years. The drilling activities carried out this time are routine continuation of relevant exploration work and are fully legal and legitimate.
> 
> In response to the provocations of the Vietnamese side, China has maintained maximum restraint and sent government vessels and civilian vessels to uphold the order of normal operation on the sea and safeguard the security of Chinese personnel and facilities. However, the Vietnamese side takes advantage of China's exercise of restraint to complicate the situation and escalate the tension, and further intensifies their actions without any restriction. Here I want to point out that China has firm and unflinching resolve in safeguarding national sovereignty, maritime rights and interests, international laws and the basic norms governing international relations. We will continue to resolutely contain Vietnam's dangerous actions against China's drilling platform. Vietnam's attempt to create disputes on international occasions cannot succeed. Any action taken by the Vietnamese side to magnify and complicate the situation can only harm its own interests. What the Vietnamese side should do at the present is to give up its illusions, immediately stop all provocations and withdraw all vessels from the scene so as to restore tranquility to the sea as soon as possible.
> 
> 
> Q: Yesterday the Vietnamese TV station presented a footage showing Chinese vessels chasing down and ramming into two Vietnamese vessels, causing one of them to sink. Does this say that China is the one who takes aggressive actions in the South China Sea? How does China respond to this?
> 
> A: I have just briefed you on the current situation when talking about the Vietnamese side's continuous ramming into China's guarding vessels protecting the second phase operation of the drilling platform in the southern waters off China's Zhongjian Island. I can give you a more specific answer, and that is in relevant waters, Chinese vessels are defending and the Vietnamese vessels are attacking. Chinese vessels are only 17 nautical miles away from China's Zhongjian Island, while the Vietnamese vessels marched as far as nearly 160 nautical miles to the scene. Which one is aggressively ramming into the other on the scene? Which one is stirring up tension on the scene? I believe the answer is very clear.
> 
> 
> 
> After the press conference, some journalist asked that the recent severely violent crimes in Vietnam against foreign companies involving beating, smashing, looting and burning have caused heavy casualties and enormous property losses to China, and how is Vietnam doing in punishing the perpetrators and making compensations?
> 
> The severely violent crimes against foreign companies involving beating, smashing, looting and burning in Vietnam have caused heavy casualties and property losses to Chinese companies. But up to now, the Vietnamese side has not made compensation to Chinese people and companies being hurt in this incident. The Chinese side urges the Vietnamese side to take concrete and effective measures to safeguard the security of life and property as well as the legitimate rights and interests of Chinese personnel and institutions in Vietnam, severely punish the perpetrators and fully compensate for China's losses.


So many lies with his answer, for example: only China deployed PLAN warships and even fighter to that area to protect the rig and attacked Vietnamese forces ...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## JayMandan

before that, how about a game of volleyball and soccer and some beer! Cheers to Viet friends.

*Philippine, Vietnamese troops drink beer, play volleyball on disputed isle*

By By Manuel Mogato and Nguyen Phuong Linh




MANILA/HANOI (Reuters) - Vietnamese and Philippine troops got together on a disputed island in the South China Sea on Sunday to play soccer and volleyball - as well as drink beer - in a display of unity that will not go unnoticed in Beijing.

Philippine naval officials billed the event on the Vietnamese-held island as a chance to show the world there can be harmony in the South China Sea despite a web of overlapping claims to the potentially energy-rich waters.

The gathering on Southwest Cay in the Spratly archipelago also symbolises how once-suspicious neighbours are cooperating in the face of China's growing assertiveness in disputed waters.

About 40 Philippine naval personnel sailed to the island for the day-long event, Philippine naval officials said.

Coincidentally, the Philippines occupied Southwest Cay until early 1975, when troops from then South Vietnam seized it after Philippine forces sailed a couple of miles to Northeast Cay, which was under Manila's control, for a party.

The South Vietnamese were soon displaced by the communist forces of a victorious Hanoi.

Besides playing soccer and volleyball, the troops held a tug-of-war competition, put on cultural shows involving singing and dancing and shared food and beer, said Philippine naval spokesman, Lieutenant-Commander Gerard Fabic.

They also shared information on maritime security, natural disaster warnings and search and rescue operations.

Colonel Le Xuan Thuy, a Vietnamese naval official, said the event reflected the goodwill between the two countries.

He told troops from both sides that current conditions in the region were complicated by the "unruly actions of China seriously violating international laws".

The gathering underscores the growing cooperation between Hanoi and Manila - the two capitals most feeling China's wrath over the South China Sea - even though both still claim Southwest Cay and dispute other islands. Southwest Cay is almost equidistant from Vietnam and the Philippines.

"We are not only bringing down walls of mistrust and suspicion with one another but building trust and confidence towards peacefully resolving our competing claims," said a senior Philippine naval official who declined to be identified.

The Philippines would hold a similar event next year, officials said.

CHINA DRIVING COUNTRIES TOGETHER

The Philippines, Malaysia and Brunei each claim some of the Spratlys, while China, Taiwan and Vietnam claim the whole chain.

China also claims 90 percent of the 3.5 million sq km (1.35 million sq mile) South China Sea, its reach displayed on its official maps with a so-called nine-dash line that extends deep into the maritime heart of Southeast Asia.

Beijing accuses the other claimants of stirring up trouble in the region.

Diplomats and experts have described the nascent partnership between Hanoi and Manila as part of a web of evolving relationships across Asia that are being driven by fear of China as well as doubts among some, especially in Japan, over the U.S. commitment to the region. [ID:nL4N0MV236]

They have said there were increasing levels of trust at a working level, as countries find that China's projection of naval power into Asia's waters is driving them together.

Most recently, Vietnam expressed interest in a legal case Manila filed at an international arbitration tribunal in late March, challenging China over its claims in the South China Sea.

Indeed, Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung said last month his government was considering taking legal action against China following the deployment of a Chinese oil rig to waters that Hanoi also claims. Vietnamese officials have not elaborated.

The Philippine and Vietnamese navies recently agreed to expand cooperation in disputed areas and a Vietnamese guided missile cruiser will soon visit Manila, Philippine naval officials have said.

(Writing by Dean Yates; Editing by Michael Perry)

*Cheers Viet friends!*

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## terranMarine

Vietcongs can only dream of this

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## armchairPrivate

Winner takes ALL.

Guess who is the winner?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## xunzi

Soryu said:


> LOL, so this is "so-call" "newly build" 15000 tons patrol ship which so many Chinese keep swank about it so much ...
> 
> If you considered those papers can use for reference in the court, so Could Chinese dare to go to the court if Vietnam brought it on international court !?


It is not about going to court or not. It is about principle and the international norm regarding solving territorial dispute had always been through bilateral negotiation and settlement. Settle territories through court is hardly acceptable.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Rechoice

athlon said:


> hmm
> 
> hmm interesting, power syndrome I think?



What did people in the world with nazists in WW II ? Indonesia became independent state after that.



cirr said:


> China's land reclamation activities in the SCS extend to Andajiao（Eldad Reef，located top right corner below）
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do more，talk less。



China is thief.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

terranMarine said:


> Vietcongs can only dream of this



China man dream too. 



armchairPrivate said:


> Winner takes ALL.
> 
> 
> Guess who is the winner?



winner will taken money of Chinese people to US and become US citizen.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ViXuyen

Viet Nam's indisputeable sovereignty of Song Tu Dong island (Northeast Cay). This island is currently occupied by the Phillipines.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ViXuyen

Viet Nam's sovereignty stele on Loai Ta island (Loaita). This island is currently occupied by the Phillipines.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## JSCh

JayMandan said:


> before that, how about a game of volleyball and soccer and some beer! Cheers to Viet friends.
> 
> *Philippine, Vietnamese troops drink beer, play volleyball on disputed isle*
> 
> By By Manuel Mogato and Nguyen Phuong Linh


Wonderful. Much better than fighting each other like before.

I understand that Philippine and Vietnamese's claim on Spratly islands almost completely overlapped each other, so have they work out who should get which island and sea zone yet?


----------



## ViXuyen

JSCh said:


> Wonderful. Much better than fighting each other like before.
> 
> I understand that Philippine and Vietnamese's claim on Spratly islands almost completely overlapped each other, so have they work out who should get which island and sea zone yet?


Nope!

Viet Nam and Phil still have unfinished business to settle as they have occupied several islands that we had already built sovereignty steles on them.


----------



## BoQ77

Soryu said:


> LOL, so this is "so-call" "newly build" 15000 tons patrol ship which so many Chinese keep swank about it so much ...
> 
> If you considered those papers can use for reference in the court, so Could Chinese dare to go to the court if Vietnam brought it on international court !?



slow boat.
As I know, During Vietnam War, China "helped" Vietnam to print map.
Actually, Vietnam never printed those maps. 
Can you show me more details on the map?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## sweetgrape

xunzi said:


> It is not about going to court or not. It is about principle and the international norm regarding solving territorial dispute had always been through bilateral negotiation and settlement. Settle territories through court is hardly acceptable.


Any proofs from China are illegal and invalid in Vietnamese eyes, Heard that, the vietnamese government has said the proof are illegal and invalid, what can you say?

Reasoning with the discreditable and ungrateful vietnamese is wasting time, Rig just the beginning, there will be more conflicts between China and Viet, also hope Vietnam don't repress the protest against China in Viet, hehe!

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Aepsilons

Chinese officials have accused vessels from Vietnam of launching more than 1,400 ramming raids on its ships near a drilling rig in the South China Sea.

The foreign ministry said in a statement the actions were illegal and called on Hanoi to stop "provocations".

China moved the drilling rig on 2 May, helping to spark anti-Chinese riots in Vietnam in which four people died.

Hanoi says the rig is within its waters and has called on China to stop its exploration in the area.

The South China Sea is host to overlapping territorial claims by a number of countries.

Beijing claims almost the entire sea, based on a mid-20th Century map with a line apparently delineating Chinese territory, and vague historical claims going back more than 1,000 years.

The drilling rig is near the Paracel Islands, a grouping claimed by both China and Vietnam.

Hanoi argued that the rig was inside its Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ), usually defined as within 200 nautical miles of a country's coast.

However, in its most detailed defence of the rig manoeuvre so far, China's foreign ministry said the drilling operation fell "well within China's sovereignty and jurisdiction".

"The two locations of operation are 17 nautical miles from both the Zhongjian Island of China's Xisha Islands [Paracels] ... yet approximately 133 to 156 nautical miles away from the coast of the Vietnamese mainland," the statement said.



Reference: BBC NEWS


----------



## ViXuyen

R&R activities with our neighbor on Song Tu Tay island

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cirr

China has started land reclamation work on Nanxunjiao（Gaven Reef，located far left in the pic below）according to the Philippines media：






Do more，talk less。

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Bastion-P

The number 1,400 may be right, but that must be from Chinese vessels against Vietnamese ships. 
Can you believe 1,400 incidents and Chineses forces can't produce even a single photo of them? 
I guess if their claim is true, then none of the Chinese on board knew how to operate a camera, or they do but their photography skills were too bad to capture the right moments 

It was reported that Chinese vessels even "attacked" each other to produce fake evidence , but I think they were washing evidence of their ramming onto Vietnamese ships.
Abnormal: Two Chinese ships themselves "sprinklers" to each other - News - Bubblews

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## xunzi

sweetgrape said:


> Any proofs from China are illegal and invalid in Vietnamese eyes, Heard that, the vietnamese government has said the proof are illegal and invalid, what can you say?
> 
> Reasoning with the discreditable and ungrateful vietnamese is wasting time, Rig just the beginning, there will be more conflicts between China and Viet, also hope Vietnam don't repress the protest against China in Viet, hehe!


We have to know that the Vietnamese are delusional and have a very weak understanding of the international laws and norms are.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## xunzi

ViXuyen said:


> Nope!
> 
> Viet Nam and Phil still have unfinished business to settle as they have occupied several islands that we had already built sovereignty steles on them.


Kick the Filipino *** for us. Our little brother ViXuyen! LOL

As for this island swap. It is stupid. If you are friendly with us, anything is possible. We may even provide you some islands for vacation just like we let you station arm force in our island to fight against the US.


----------



## Viet

terranMarine said:


> Vietcongs can only dream of this


considering rising sea level because of global warming and increasing number of deadly typhoons in the region, I would say that is a very risky investment.

look at the multi billions dollars Dubai´s artificial islands.


----------



## OCguy

Certainly there is video of some of the 1400 attacks. So far the only boat ramming video I have seen would not count.


----------



## WuMaoCleverbot

*EDITORIAL - Code of conduct*
(The Philippine Star) | Updated June 9, 2014 - 12:00am

*Unless someone tampered with it, the video footage of that encounter on May 29 between a Vietnamese fishing boat and a larger Chinese vessel clearly shows the boat being pursued and then rammed by the big ship. The Chinese ship then left the Vietnamese boat to sink with its crew.*

It was a clear, sunny day near the Paracel Islands so it was unlikely that the Chinese failed to notice the Vietnamese boat. Before the video emerged, the Chinese said they were harassed by the Vietnamese boat in disputed waters near the spot where Beijing is setting up an oilrig, leading to a collision. *The video clearly shows that the sinking was not accidental and the Vietnamese were left to drown.*

The incident gives the latest indication that Beijing is prepared to use force to stake its claim over nearly all the waters around it. From its reaction to the international arbitration pursued by the Philippines on maritime rights, it can also be surmised that Beijing prefers force to a peaceful settlement, based on international rules, of overlapping claims.

Following this stance, it’s uncertain that Beijing will forge – much less abide by – a code of conduct in disputed waters with the Association of Southeast Asian Nations. Nevertheless, the ugly incident involving the Vietnamese fishing boat should encourage ASEAN to work on the code with urgency. This part of the world prospered in the past three decades due in large part to an environment that until recently was among the world’s most peaceful and stable.

That peace has been under strain particularly since Xi Jinping replaced Hu Jintao at China’s helm, as Beijing, not content with having Asia’s largest landmass, now stakes a claim on nearly all the waters around it. Chinese fishermen have ventured as far away as Palau and Alaska, apparently in the belief that as long as their boats can move on the water, it must be part of China.

After the sinking of the Vietnamese boat, all parties must work for a code of conduct to prevent any country from claiming territory by force. This is if Asia does not want regional peace shattered.

EDITORIAL - Code of conduct | Opinion, News, The Philippine Star | philstar.com

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zero_wing

cirr said:


> China has started land reclamation work on Nanxunjiao（Gaven Reef，located far left in the pic below）according to the Philippines media：
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do more，talk less。



Pactice what you preach


----------



## pigtaker

Viet said:


> considering rising sea level because of global warming and increasing number of deadly typhoons in the region, I would say that is a very risky investment.
> 
> look at the multi billions dollars Dubai´s artificial islands.


stupid viets. That is a wedge we drive into SCS to project our power. we only require it last 30 years, then we can claim back all the islands round it.


----------



## Rechoice

pigtaker said:


> stupid viets. That is a wedge we drive into SCS to project our power. we only require it last 30 years, then we can claim back all the islands round it.


 
sea pirates could dreaming, free of charge.


----------



## EastSea

yusheng said:


> “981”钻井平台作业：越南的挑衅和中国的立场
> 
> Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the People's Republic of China
> “981”钻井平台作业：越南的挑衅和中国的立场
> （供稿） （供稿）
> 2014/06/08
> View attachment 34319
> View attachment 34320
> View attachment 34321
> View attachment 34322
> View attachment 34323
> View attachment 34324
> View attachment 34325
> View attachment 34326
> View attachment 34327
> View attachment 34328



After 1954, China and Noth Vietnam signed in Geneva Accords. Island belong to South Vietnam. North Vietnam didn't has right about Islands of South Vietnam.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

North Korean don't have right to say that Dokdo belong to Japan.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## xesy

Are there any actual historical evidences? You know the Ming dynasty map you are always talk about? Certainly someone must have snap a pic or two of it.

Modern books and maps can be easily printed each years so a minor change is hardly noticable. Our gov can just regard them as typo mistakes, especially before 1975 documents.

Also the letter of Mr Dong has already been explained to Vietnamese as an political gesture rather than accepting the right to control the island (I believe a Vietnamese poster has put up a long post about this).

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cnleio

Soryu said:


> LOL, so this is "so-call" "newly build" 15000 tons patrol ship which so many Chinese keep swank about it so much ...



Of course it's not new, 2x >10,000ton Ocean Support Ships retired from PLAN and join China Fshery Administration as patrolling ships.

Now they'r China law-enforcement vessels "渔政 N.o21" and "渔政 N.o88", i think It's big enough to deal with Vietnam's fish boats and VIETNAM COAST GUARD, do u agree ? 

Future many old 3,000~ 5,000ton PLAN warships will retire, like 14x 051 DDGs and 20x 053H FFGs ( 052D/055, 054B(057) and 056 will replace them ) it's best idea to let all join CHINA COAST GUARD as patrolling ships.  Remove weapons system and repaint the color is much cheaper than building a new patrolling ship, and they'r big enough !

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

*Japan owns Senkakus: Taiwan’s Lee
*
TAIPEI – Former Taiwanese President Lee Teng-hui repeated Thursday that the Senkaku Islands belong to Japan.

The islets are “Japanese territory based on international law,” Lee, 91, said in a speech to Japanese employees at a Taipei hotel.

The uninhabited islets long administered by Japan in the East China Sea are also claimed by China and Taiwan, which call them Diaoyu and Tiaoyutai, respectively.

Lee said the issue is whether Taiwanese fishermen can use the fishing grounds near the islets and said he was hopeful that ongoing fisheries talks progress between Japan and Taiwan.

A pact that took effect between Japan and Taiwan last year allows Taiwanese fishing boats to operate in certain areas near the islands, but specific operational rules are still lacking.

The one-hour speech, which included a question-and-answer session, was delivered in Japanese. Lee grew up in Taiwan when it was under Japanese rule.

Japan owns Senkakus: Taiwan's Lee | The Japan Times

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## xesy

OCguy said:


> Certainly there is video of some of the 1400 attacks. So far the only boat ramming video I have seen would not count.


China always claims to have evidences, yet refuse to show them. Even Chinese posters say that their media used Vietnam pics and vids in the news (somehow managed to twist the story around). Don't know what China is planing.


----------



## Mr Second Back

xesy said:


> China always claims to have evidences, yet refuse to show them. Even Chinese posters say that their media used Vietnam pics and vids in the news (somehow managed to twist the story around). Don't know what China is planing.


Can you Believe China have not such videos? For me, I dont believe it. But you, yourself can think about the reason. Chinese people's hostile feeling toward Vietnam has risen to an unbelieveable level now. If the government showed some Vietnam's negative video, I can hardly believe what will be happend.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## EastSea

Mr Second Back said:


> Can you Believe China have not such videos? For me, I dont believe it. But you, yourself can think about the reason. Chinese people's hostile feeling toward Vietnam has risen to an unbelieveable level now. If the government showed some Vietnam's negative video, I can hardly believe what will be happend.



China is strong, she showed her muscle, it is logic of invaders could do to bully Vietnam.






_A vessel of the China Coast Guard attacked a ship of the Vietnam Fisheries Surveillance._


----------



## jammersat

poor china they fight japan and they has to get it from vietnam


----------



## Mr Second Back

EastSea said:


> China is strong, she showed her muscle, it is logic of invaders could do to bully Vietnam.


At least, Chinese government has never done something like what Nguyen Tan Dung did, send the sms and encourage people to "protect" the intrest of China. Too many Vietnam people in China still live good.



jammersat said:


> poor china they fight japan and they has to get it from vietnam


I can tell you the truth, according to the national power of China, if China, herself didnt make some stupid mistakes like in Sino-Japanese naval battle. Japan has no chance. Northern China Fleet was the strongest fleet in Asia, but Emoress CiXi wanted to celebrate her birthday and built Imperial Park, and Chinese fleet even only could fire bullets for training during the war since all Money has benn used to build the Imperial Park. Stupid!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## xesy

Mr Second Back said:


> Can you Believe China have not such videos? For me, I dont believe it. But you, yourself can think about the reason. Chinese people's hostile feeling toward Vietnam has risen to an unbelieveable level now. If the government showed some Vietnam's negative video, I can hardly believe what will be happend.


I believe they have some. China always prepares since they are the one starting this situation. Yet maybe the vid isn't negative for Vietnam, but negative for China. For example in 1988 Johnson South Reef Skirmish, China had some footage but only released it (heavily editted) after more than 20 years. You know who did the similar thing? The USA. In recent years they released a bunch of Vietnam war footages. China and US must have similar reasons to do that.

And as far as I know, Chinese are also hostile toward Japanese for what they did to China in WW2. If Japan can take it, Vietnam can too.


----------



## Soryu

EastSea said:


> *Japan owns Senkakus: Taiwan’s Lee*
> 
> TAIPEI – Former Taiwanese President Lee Teng-hui repeated Thursday that the Senkaku Islands belong to Japan.
> 
> The islets are “Japanese territory based on international law,” Lee, 91, said in a speech to Japanese employees at a Taipei hotel.
> 
> The uninhabited islets long administered by Japan in the East China Sea are also claimed by China and Taiwan, which call them Diaoyu and Tiaoyutai, respectively.
> 
> Lee said the issue is whether Taiwanese fishermen can use the fishing grounds near the islets and said he was hopeful that ongoing fisheries talks progress between Japan and Taiwan.
> 
> A pact that took effect between Japan and Taiwan last year allows Taiwanese fishing boats to operate in certain areas near the islands, but specific operational rules are still lacking.
> 
> The one-hour speech, which included a question-and-answer session, was delivered in Japanese. Lee grew up in Taiwan when it was under Japanese rule.
> 
> Japan owns Senkakus: Taiwan's Lee | The Japan Times


Now, a Chinese like Mr. Lee saying that, how sad for some boys ... 



cnleio said:


> Of course it's not new, 2x >10,000ton Ocean Support Ships retired from PLAN and join China Fshery Administration as patrolling ships.
> 
> Now they'r China law-enforcement vessels "渔政 N.o21" and "渔政 N.o88", i think It's big enough to deal with Vietnam's fish boats and VIETNAM COAST GUARD, do u agree ?
> 
> Future many old 3,000~ 5,000ton PLAN warships will retire, like 14x 051 DDGs and 20x 053H FFGs ( 052D/055, 054B(057) and 056 will replace them ) it's best idea to let all join CHINA COAST GUARD as patrolling ships.  Remove weapons system and repaint the color is much cheaper than building a new patrolling ship, and they'r big enough !


yes, yes ... I know that PRC has so many toys to play around.
But remember: sow the seeds and so get your fruits, it maybe feel high sweet at first, but can lead you to the bitter end.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Soryu

I just want Chinese member provide some videos were filmed by China side, which was said that Vietnam spray water canon and rammed on China ship over 1200 times.


----------



## Mr Second Back

xesy said:


> I believe they have some. China always prepares since they are the one starting this situation. Yet maybe the vid isn't negative for Vietnam, but negative for China. For example in 1988 Johnson South Reef Skirmish, China had some footage but only released it (heavily editted) after more than 20 years. You know who did the similar thing? The USA. In recent years they released a bunch of Vietnam war footages. China and US must have similar reasons to do that.
> 
> And as far as I know, Chinese are also hostile toward Japanese for what they did to China in WW2. If Japan can take it, Vietnam can too.


No, not the same. Chinese people looks down all SE Asia countries, including Vietnam. The feeling to Japan is different, but as I said, if China didnt make any stupid, Japan has no chance.



xesy said:


> I believe they have some. China always prepares since they are the one starting this situation. Yet maybe the vid isn't negative for Vietnam, but negative for China. For example in 1988 Johnson South Reef Skirmish, China had some footage but only released it (heavily editted) after more than 20 years. You know who did the similar thing? The USA. In recent years they released a bunch of Vietnam war footages. China and US must have similar reasons to do that.
> 
> And as far as I know, Chinese are also hostile toward Japanese for what they did to China in WW2. If Japan can take it, Vietnam can too.


BTW, What's your meaning of "If Japan can take it, Vietnam can too?" I'd suggest you go to China or Japan and check how different two countries. Vietnam's GDP is the same with a poor province of China, and without China's help(I dont care China's aim), Vietnam is a part of France or USA now. Vietnam=Japan? No.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Mr Second Back

xesy said:


> I believe they have some. China always prepares since they are the one starting this situation. Yet maybe the vid isn't negative for Vietnam, but negative for China. For example in 1988 Johnson South Reef Skirmish, China had some footage but only released it (heavily editted) after more than 20 years. You know who did the similar thing? The USA. In recent years they released a bunch of Vietnam war footages. China and US must have similar reasons to do that.
> 
> And as far as I know, Chinese are also hostile toward Japanese for what they did to China in WW2. If Japan can take it, Vietnam can too.


And please dont misunderstand, I have no offence. I am also very strenge with such question. SE Asia countries have too much rescource, and enough population. Weather is nice to farm most plants. So why there is only Singapore, that is a developed country? And most people in Singapore are Chinese immigrant. In other countries, Chinese people also have a lot of fortune and stay in "high-class" level.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## DragonEmpire

Keep crying for Putin to save you...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zero_wing

No its not the moral hight ground is the victory here if china does not obey the rules china is unfit to be anything in the 21st century just other troublemaker


----------



## Viet

Huan said:


> Are you kidding me? Are they really saying it's good for the "international community" to decide for and dictate each country's sovereignty from now on? Would you really allow an overseas entity to control the affairs of your home territory?


China claims nearly the SC Sea based on "historical" facts, aka the world famous fcking 9-dash line.
Now the court asks China to show the world these "historical" facts.

Is it difficult to understand?



OrionHunter said:


> How can a verdict be enforced on a country like China? It can't. What's Philippines going to do if China doesn't cooperate or comply even on a verdict by an international court / tribunal?
> 
> Utter waste of time. The only way is to sort out problems mutually to the satisfaction of both countries.


It does not matter.

if China refuses to show the evidences, the court will rule: China does not have any evidences at all that back their claim.
the Philippines will win the case, and the world knows China lies.

So China can no longer tell the world they claim the SC Sea is based on historial facts and evidences. That is the point.

China wants to dictate not negotiate. You see it when they place the oil rig in our EEZ.
Vietnam government monitors the case of the Philippines with interests, because we will likely sue China soon.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## xesy

Mr Second Back said:


> No, not the same. Chinese people looks down all SE Asia countries, including Vietnam. The feeling to Japan is different, but as I said, if China didnt make any stupid, Japan has no chance.
> 
> 
> BTW, What's your meaning of "If Japan can take it, Vietnam can too?" I'd suggest you go to China or Japan and check how different two countries. Vietnam's GDP is the same with a poor province of China, and without China's help(I dont care China's aim), Vietnam is a part of France or USA now. Vietnam=Japan? No.


Yeah, Chinese feeling toward Japan is more hateful, or should I say vegenceful?

By comparing Vietnam and Japan, I mean Vietnam will not back down on the SCS issue, just like Japan on the Diaoyu/Senkaku island, at least on this state of smearing each other.

In Vietnam war, North Vietnam was helped by CCCP, China and other communist countries. Of course the first two were major helps but it's not right to say China ensured the victory of Vietnam against US. Vietnamese shed blood for their victory.


Mr Second Back said:


> And please dont misunderstand, I have no offence. I am also very strenge with such question. SE Asia countries have too much rescource, and enough population. Weather is nice to farm most plants. So why there is only Singapore, that is a developed country? And most people in Singapore are Chinese immigrant. In other countries, Chinese people also have a lot of fortune and stay in "high-class" level.


Allow me to share my opinion. Most SEA countries have had some kinds of political or military affairs. Myanmar and Thailand have political issues. Vietnam were in war up until 1991. Cambodia suffered the Khmer Rogue and then Vietnam occupation till 1989. Laos has no seashore and rough weather, also Vietnam and China both want to have political influence over Laos. Malaysia and Indonesia have some internal affairs, namely separatist and racist rebels. Phillipine is ok, but have annually natural disaster. Singapore is small, easy to manage and maintain, hard to have corruption and affairs. Also Singapore have a pretty smal army and does not engage in any conflict yet.


----------



## DragonEmpire

China's courts already ruled South China Sea belongs to China so the matter is legally settled. No more disputes. Now we bring out the nuclear arsenal for Viets and Pinoys.


----------



## eazzy

ROFL, international law.


----------



## EastSea

Mr Second Back said:


> At least, Chinese government has never done something like what Nguyen Tan Dung did, send the sms and encourage people to "protect" the intrest of China. Too many Vietnam people in China still live good.



You lie. Mr. Dzung himself never did it. Lying is no good, dude. How did chinese PM in China to demonstration protest Japan recently ? does he send sms ?


----------



## Rechoice

yusheng said:


> “981”钻井平台作业：越南的挑衅和中国的立场
> 
> Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the People's Republic of China
> “981”钻井平台作业：越南的挑衅和中国的立场
> （供稿） （供稿）
> 2014/06/08
> View attachment 34319
> View attachment 34320
> View attachment 34321
> View attachment 34322
> View attachment 34323
> View attachment 34324
> View attachment 34325
> View attachment 34326
> View attachment 34327
> View attachment 34328


 
*Look at how chinese do with Senkaku of Japan in the past.*

Prior to the 1970s, neither the PRC nor ROC government make any official statements disputing or claiming the sovereignty of the Senkaku Islands. Several maps, newspaper articles, and government documents from both countries after 1945 refer to the islands by their Japanese name, while some even explicitly recognize their status as Japanese territory.


The_Washington Times_stated that they obtained a classified map made by the PRC's map authority in 1969 apparently listing the "Senkaku Islands" as Japanese territory.




The_Washington Times_states that this is a classified PRC government map from 1969 and that it lists the "Senkaku islands" as Japanese territory.
From 1946 to 1971,_Taiwan Statistical Abstract_published by the Taiwanese Provincial Government stated "the easternmost point of Taiwan is Mianhua Islet and the northernmost point isPengjia Islet" excluding the Senkaku islands.

_The Grand Atlas of the World Vol. 1_published in October 1965 by the National Defense Research Academy and the China Geological Research Institute of Taiwan records the Diaoyu Islands with Japanese names: Gyochojima (Diaoyu Islands), Taishojima (Chiwei Island), and Senkaku Gunto in the "Map of the Ryukyu Islands". Taiwan and the Senkaku Gunto were clearly divided by a national border.

_The National Atlas of China Vol. 1_published by the National War College of Taiwan did not include Diaoyutai Islands in the map of "Taipei and Keelung" in the first (1959), second (1963), or even third (1967) editions.

A world atlas published in November 1958, by the Map Publishing Company of Beijing, treats the Senkaku Islands as a Japanese territory and described them in Japanese name Senkaku Guntō (Senkaku Islands) and Uotsuri-Jima,








Partial image of map showing Senkaku Islands in_World Atlas_published in China in 1960
Senkaku Islands dispute - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## terranMarine

That Viet is known to be , the court will rule?


----------



## +4vsgorillas-Apebane

Many international laws and tribunals were created when China was at its weakest. There is little Chinese representation and "international" institutions are western dominated to serve their own agendas.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## BoQ77

China ever declared Senkaku belongs to Japan ?
I wonder when the Diaoyu name used ?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ViXuyen

xunzi said:


> Kick the Filipino *** for us. Our little brother ViXuyen! LOL
> 
> As for this island swap. It is stupid. If you are friendly with us, anything is possible. We may even provide you some islands for vacation just like we let you station arm force in our island to fight against the US.


Currently there is no tension between Viet Nam and Phil. We have just played tug of war, soccer, and volleyball on our island

As for the Paracel islands; I can assure you that 99% of our tension/animosity toward China is because of this island chain. If China agrees to return just a few of those Paracel islands back to Viet Nam; that is a HUGE boost in normalizing relation between the two countries back to pre-1974

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## rott

EastSea said:


> China is strong, she showed her muscle, it is logic of invaders could do to bully Vietnam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _A vessel of the China Coast Guard attacked a ship of the Vietnam Fisheries Surveillance._


It is also very logical for small and weak invaders to play the VICTIM card.


----------



## EastSea

rott said:


> It is also very logical for small and weak invaders to play the VICTIM card.



apply to China, chinese rig and ships invaded in to EZZ of Vietnam, she said that her ships were harassed 1,400 time by Viet surveillance ships, China is victim. ha ha.

‘VN đâm tàu TQ hơn 1.400 lần’ - BBC Vietnamese - Việt Nam


----------



## xesy

rott said:


> It is also very logical for small and weak invaders to play the VICTIM card.


Have you seen any smaller and weaker countries invading bigger and more powerful countries? When Germany invaded CCCP, Germany had already put the whole Europe (expect for UK) and North Africa in their pocket. Japan and 7 other countries joined force before taking down the Quin dynasty China. Israel had advanced weaponry and was backed up by the US before they attacked Iran.

It's very logical for China to play the victim, for the "Peacful Rise". While China is still counting the number of ramming, we lost count already. China ships ram and fire water cannon at Vietnam ships on daily basis, who care any more. Now we care about how many ships China will sink before Chinese citizens realize they are the aggressor.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## tbquestion

ViXuyen said:


> R&R activities with our neighbor on Song Tu Tay island


What is Vietnam thinking? China and the US is participating in military exercise called "Rimpac" and the least Vietnam could do is have her own military exercise. No, Vietnam decides to have a party. How can Vietnam expect other nations to voice their support for Vietnam if it is too busy having a party.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## xesy

tbquestion said:


> What is Vietnam thinking? China and the US is participating in military exercise called "Rimpac" and the least Vietnam could do is have her own military exercise. No, Vietnam decides to have a party. How can Vietnam expect other nations to voice their support for Vietnam if it is too busy having a party.


Vietnam is in a situation where she cannot freely mobilizing her force around without getting a respond from China. Especially when specialists around the world expect a navy clash between Vietnam and China. Furthermore, China put their fleet at Hainan ready, and can reach Vietnam mainland in less than 1 hour. Vietnam does not have the freedom to do as you say.


----------



## WuMaoCleverbot

*SC justice debunks China sea claims*
By Edu Punay (The Philippine Star) | Updated June 10, 2014 - 12:00am

MANILA, Philippines - China’s own ancient maps would debunk its supposed “historical” claims over disputed areas in the West Philippine Sea, according to a senior magistrate of the Supreme Court (SC).

In his recent lecture at the De La Salle University-College of Law, Senior Associate Justice Antonio Carpio said an examination of such maps would show that the “historical facts” being claimed by China do not exist.

“All these ancient maps show that since the first Chinese maps appeared, the southernmost territory of China has always been Hainan island, with its ancient names being Zhuya, then Qiongya, and thereafter Qiongzhou,” he stressed.

The magistrate said this shows that Hainan island, which was for centuries a part of Guangdong until 1988 when it became a separate province, is the boundary of the Chinese territory in the Southeast Asian region.

Carpio said even the maps of the Philippines and other countries also did not show the contested islands as part of China.

He recalled that China only claimed its alleged “historical facts” as basis for its maritime claims in the South China Sea after the Philippines filed in January 2013 an arbitration case against it before an international tribunal, invoking UNCLOS (United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea).

Headlines ( Article MRec ), pagematch: 1, sectionmatch: 1
The SC justice also pointed out that the use of “South China Sea” as basis for China’s historical claims holds no water.

“The South China Sea was not even named by the Chinese but by European navigators and cartographers. The Song and Ming Dynasties called the South China Sea the ‘Giao Chi Sea,’ and the Qing Dynasty, the Republic of China as well as the People’s Republic of China call it the ‘South Sea’ without the word ‘China’,” he pointed out.

Citing foundations of international law by Hugo Grotius in the early 17th century, he said that “the oceans and seas of our planet belonged to all mankind, and no nation could claim ownership to the oceans and seas.”

“India cannot claim the Indian Ocean, and Mexico cannot claim the Gulf of Mexico, in the same way that the Philippines cannot claim the Philippine Sea, just because historically these bodies of water have been named after these countries,” he further stressed.

Lastly, Carpio explained that historical facts dating back to the age of discovery in the early 15th century until the 17th century or even earlier “have no bearing whatsoever in the resolution of maritime disputes under UNCLOS.”

The magistrate reiterated that China’s claim of a “historical right” to the waters enclosed within the 9-dash lines in the South China Sea is utterly without basis under international law.

He explained that UNCLOS had extinguished all historical rights of other states within the 200-nautical mile exclusive economic zone of the adjacent coastal state.

This, he said, is the reason why the zone is called “exclusive,” as no state other than the adjacent coastal state can exploit economically its resources.

China claims that Panatag (Scarborough) Shoal, which it branded Huangyan Island, is the Nanhai island that 13th century Chinese astronomer-engineer-mathematician Guo Shoujing allegedly visited in 1279 on orders from Kublai Khan – the first emperor of the Yuan Dynasty – to conduct a survey of the Four Seas to update the Sung Dynasty calendar system.

This supposed visit of Gou Shoujing to Panatag Shoal in 1279 is the only historical association of China with the shoal.

But in his speech during the 19th National Convention and Seminar of the Philippine Women Judges Association last March, Carpio stressed that China already used the same claim in its dispute with Vietnam over the Paracels.

He also cited a Jan. 30, 1980 document entitled “China’s Sovereignty Over Xisha and Zhongsa Islands Is Indisputable” published in Beijing Review, in which the country’s foreign ministry officially declared that the Nanhai island that Guo Shoujing visited in 1279 was in Xisha or what is internationally called the Paracels, a group of islands more than 380 nautical miles from Panatag Shoal.

Carpio said Guo could not have gone ashore to “visit” the shoal because “it was just a rock, with no vegetation, and did not even have enough space to accommodate an expedition party.”

The SC justice also argued that a state may only claim “historical rights” over waters that are part of its internal waters or territorial sea.

He also said China failed to satisfy any of the conditions to claim historical rights under the general principles and rules of international law, such as formal announcement to the international community, continuous exercise of sovereignty over the waters it claims as its own internal waters or territorial sea, and recognition from other states.

He added that China’s 9-dash line claim was “never effectively enforced.”

Since last year, Carpio had been bringing up the West Philippine Sea issue in a number of public speeches.

In a speech before members of the Philippine Bar Association in August last year, Carpio expressed fear that territorial claims over disputed areas of the West Philippine Sea could end up being dictated by naval strength and not by the rule of law, citing the tendency of China to ignore arbitration proceedings.

In a speech three months earlier before law students of the Pamantasan ng Lungsod ng Maynila, Carpio noted that under the United Nations Charter, the International Court of Justice can ask the UN Security Council to enforce its decision. The International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea or ITLOS is also a UN body.

Carpio wrote the Supreme Court decision that unanimously affirmed the constitutionality of the Philippine Archipelagic Baselines law of 2009, beating an UNCLOS deadline.

*Diplomacy vs aggression*

At Malacañang, presidential spokesman Edwin Lacierda said the administration would continue to match China’s growing aggressiveness with diplomacy.

“People seem to underestimate... the power of the diplomatic track but there has been a growing approval from the international community,” Lacierda said in a press briefing.

“We believe that with the international community’s support, we can persuade China to act as a responsible member of the international community,” he added.

He said they still have to verify a report from the South China Morning Post that China would establish a military base after the planned expansion of an artificial island located on Kagitingan (Fiery Cross) Reef.

Chinese Naval Research Institute expert Li Jie was quoted in the SCMP report as saying that the military base would feature an airstrip and a port. The base will also have storage for military supplies. China has already constructed an observation post on the reef, the report said.

Jin Canrong, a professor of international relations in Renmin University in Beijing, said in the same report that the artificial island would be twice the size of the US military base in Diego Garcia, which occupies an area of 44 square kilometers in the Indian Ocean.

Jin also said that the proposal to construct the artificial island was submitted to the Chinese central government and that its approval would depend on the progress of reclamation on Mabini (Johnson South) Reef. * – Aurea Calica, Pia Lee-Brago

SC justice debunks China sea claims | Headlines, News, The Philippine Star | philstar.com*


----------



## tbquestion

xesy said:


> Vietnam is in a situation where she cannot freely mobilizing her force around without getting a respond from China. Especially when specialists around the world expect a navy clash between Vietnam and China. Furthermore, China put their fleet at Hainan ready, and can reach Vietnam mainland in less than 1 hour. Vietnam does not have the freedom to do as you say.


Since the Vietnam war, I dont recall Vietnam participating in any military exercises with any countries. China, on the other hand have participated in countless military exercise with western countries. Discounting military hardware, China has more experience than Vietnam in naval warfare. 


Strange thing is, North Korea which have smaller military budget than Vietnam does as it please without fear of China.


----------



## BoQ77

North Korea ever exercised with others? Vietnam same. Vietnamese troops also produced foods for themselves anywhere they located.


----------



## xesy

tbquestion said:


> Since the Vietnam war, I dont recall Vietnam participating in any military exercises with any countries. China, on the other hand have participated in countless military exercise with western countries. Discounting military hardware, China has more experience than Vietnam in naval warfare.
> 
> 
> Strange thing is, North Korea which have smaller military budget than Vietnam does as it please without fear of China.


Didn't Vietnam have a live-fire drill with US last year or the year before last? Vietnam always wants to maintain a peac-loving image so she restrains from building a strong army, just keep it at a capable level (now it turns around and bits her).

To be honest, North Korea is a pupet of China. We used to joke about how North Korea former PM called Beijing before he made decisions, even what he would have for lunch (not so sure now, as Kim Jong Un replaced his father, North Korea is not as hostile toward the West as before). Jokes aside, North Korea has smaller military bidget, but a much larger force, 1 million ground troops if I am not mistaken. North Korea has an unhealthy economy, focusing only on heavy industry, medical and military, ignoring education, cultivation and light industry. Simply put, NK puts around 1/3 of its earned money on military, while in Vietnam the number is around 10%(or less, I am not sure). And most importantly, NK has nukes.


----------



## tbquestion

xesy said:


> Didn't Vietnam have a live-fire drill with US last year or the year before last? Vietnam always wants to maintain a peac-loving image so she restrains from building a strong army, just keep it at a capable level (now it turns around and bits her).
> 
> To be honest, North Korea is a pupet of China. We used to joke about how North Korea former PM called Beijing before he made decisions, even what he would have for lunch (not so sure now, as Kim Jong Un replaced his father, North Korea is not as hostile toward the West as before). Jokes aside, North Korea has smaller military bidget, but a much larger force, 1 million ground troops if I am not mistaken. North Korea has an unhealthy economy, focusing only on heavy industry, medical and military, ignoring education, cultivation and light industry. Simply put, NK puts around 1/3 of its earned money on military, while in Vietnam the number is around 10%(or less, I am not sure). And most importantly, NK has nukes.


The drill you are talking about, has to do with search and rescue at sea, nothing military about that as no weapon were involved. Its a pretty useful exercise, after the enemies have sunken your ships and you need to save your sailors. Ho chi minh was quoted as saying that he rather kiss an American *** for ten years than smell Chinese sh1t for 1000 years. Its funny that the apple has fallen so far from the apple tree. I wonder what Vietnam would be like if he had live for another 20 years.


----------



## DragonEmpire

tbquestion said:


> What is Vietnam thinking? China and the US is participating in military exercise called "Rimpac" and the least Vietnam could do is have her own military exercise. No, Vietnam decides to have a party. How can Vietnam expect other nations to voice their support for Vietnam if it is too busy having a party.


Viets are backstabbers. First they aggressively try to disrupt China's oil drilling in our own waters then they try to fool other countries like Indonesia into fighting and dying for their lies. Meanwhile they are partying and laughing at other countries fighting China for them. When the fight is over, they will invade those other countries that tried to help them. Look at how Vietnam invaded Cambodia and Laos after both countries helped Vietnam in their time of need during the war against USA.


----------



## DragonEmpire

^ LOL at a Pinoy judge. Go back to being a servant.

Chinese judges have already ruled. The South China Sea legally belongs to China. There is no further dispute.

Now we can legally unleash our nuclear arsenal on our enemies!


----------



## cirr

Dongmenjiao（Hughes Reef）：yesteryear、yesterday and today：









































The future is bright，the future is orange。

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## DragonEmpire

xesy said:


> Have you seen any smaller and weaker countries invading bigger and more powerful countries? When Germany invaded CCCP, Germany had already put the whole Europe (expect for UK) and North Africa in their pocket. Japan and 7 other countries joined force before taking down the Quin dynasty China. Israel had advanced weaponry and was backed up by the US before they attacked Iran.
> 
> It's very logical for China to play the victim, for the "Peacful Rise". While China is still counting the number of ramming, we lost count already. China ships ram and fire water cannon at Vietnam ships on daily basis, who care any more. Now we care about how many ships China will sink before Chinese citizens realize they are the aggressor.


Vietnam tried to attack China because you thought Putin will back you up. Just like you thought Soviet Union would back you up in 1979. Now you are humiliated because everybody laughs at you while China spanks mercilessly. Even Putin is laughing at the stupid Viets who gave all their money to buy weapons.

Soon our tanks will roll into Hanoi and Saigon. Then it is time for the real slaughter to begin!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## xesy

tbquestion said:


> The drill you are talking about, has to do with search and rescue at sea, nothing military about that as no weapon were involved. Its a pretty useful exercise, after the enemies have sunken your ships and you need to save your sailors. Ho chi minh was quoted as saying that he rather kiss an American *** for ten years than smell Chinese sh1t for 1000 years. Its funny that the apple has fallen so far from the apple tree. I wonder what Vietnam would be like if he had live for another 20 years.


Funny, can you source what Uncle Ho said? Ho Chi Minh admited that he was a nationalist before a communist, so he did what was best for Vietnam. Many Vietnamese are not happy with what our govt is doing now, but we have few choices left.


DragonEmpire said:


> Viets are backstabbers. First they aggressively try to disrupt China's oil drilling in our own waters then they try to fool other countries like Indonesia into fighting and dying for their lies. Meanwhile they are partying and laughing at other countries fighting China for them. When the fight is over, they will invade those other countries that tried to help them. Look at how Vietnam invaded Cambodia and Laos after both countries helped Vietnam in their time of need during the war against USA.


Let's leave at that who is the backstabber, China or Vietnam. Too many posts have argued about that.

I will try to be logical here. If China was putting the rig in her water, then the flow of events should be: China deploys the rig with a small number of transport ships, Vietnam reacts and sends ships to force China rig to leave, China sends more ships to protect the rig. But in fact, from the beginning China sends over 80 ships with the rig including warships and fighters, way overkill if you ask me. It's is illogical that a civil operation like deploying a rig should be accompanied by warships. Or China has warships escort the rig even in its water? China must have expected Vietnam to react violently to bring warships with the rig. And when Vietnam did not fall for their trap, China then take the aggressive side and provoke Vietnam to fight back. If Vietnam fights back, China can use its navy. If not, then Vietnam ships are damaged. Either way China wins.

Vietnam was the major force fighting the US in the Vietnam war. Cambodia and Laos were used as bases of operation, no more. Vietnam did not conscript Laos or Cambodia citizens and force them to fight in South Vietnam. And we fought the Khmer Rogue because they provoked and massacred Vietnamese first. If China can call the 1979 war Counter Offensive, why can't Vietnam use the same reason to call the Vietnam Cambodia war?


----------



## xesy

DragonEmpire said:


> Vietnam tried to attack China because you thought Putin will back you up. Just like you thought Soviet Union would back you up in 1979. Now you are humiliated because everybody laughs at you while China spanks mercilessly. Even Putin is laughing at the stupid Viets who gave all their money to buy weapons.
> 
> Soon our tanks will roll into Hanoi and Saigon. Then it is time for the real slaughter to begin!


So much for a peac-loving country, eh, China?
Even if we are backed up, we are still the one who fight and die. Just because somebody gives you a weapon, you have to go out and start a shoot out with the police? What kind of moron to do that, and to bilieve someone would do that?

The world did not laugh at us, but at China who is crying in the UN about Vietnam bullying its rig.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## tbquestion

xesy said:


> Funny, can you source what Uncle Ho said? Ho Chi Minh admited that he was a nationalist before a communist, so he did what was best for Vietnam. Many Vietnamese are not happy with what our govt is doing now, but we have few choices left.
> 
> Let's leave at that who is the backstabber, China or Vietnam. Too many posts have argued about that.
> 
> I will try to be logical here. If China was putting the rig in her water, then the flow of events should be: China deploys the rig with a small number of transport ships, Vietnam reacts and sends ships to force China rig to leave, China sends more ships to protect the rig. But in fact, from the beginning China sends over 80 ships with the rig including warships and fighters, way overkill if you ask me. It's is illogical that a civil operation like deploying a rig should be accompanied by warships. Or China has warships escort the rig even in its water? China must have expected Vietnam to react violently to bring warships with the rig. And when Vietnam did not fall for their trap, China then take the aggressive side and provoke Vietnam to fight back. If Vietnam fights back, China can use its navy. If not, then Vietnam ships are damaged. Either way China wins.
> 
> Vietnam was the major force fighting the US in the Vietnam war. Cambodia and Laos were used as bases of operation, no more. Vietnam did not conscript Laos or Cambodia citizens and force them to fight in South Vietnam. And we fought the Khmer Rogue because they provoked and massacred Vietnamese first. If China can call the 1979 war Counter Offensive, why can't Vietnam use the same reason to call the Vietnam Cambodia war?
> 
> 
> DragonEmpire said:
> 
> 
> 
> Viets are backstabbers. First they aggressively try to disrupt China's oil drilling in our own waters then they try to fool other countries like Indonesia into fighting and dying for their lies. Meanwhile they are partying and laughing at other countries fighting China for them. When the fight is over, they will invade those other countries that tried to help them. Look at how Vietnam invaded Cambodia and Laos after both countries helped Vietnam in their time of need during the war against USA.
> 
> 
> 
> Even Australia is wary of Indonesia's military buildup.
Click to expand...


----------



## xesy

DragonEmpire said:


> ^ LOL at a Pinoy judge. Go back to being a servant.
> 
> Chinese judges have already ruled. The South China Sea legally belongs to China. There is no further dispute.
> 
> Now we can legally unleash our nuclear arsenal on our enemies!


Using nuclear weapon is always illegal. You are welcome to do so if you are ready to take punishments from the whole world. So much for a peac-loving country, bring nuke around to scare people. You are giving us reasons to develop or buy nuke of our own.


----------



## cnleio

Soryu said:


> N
> yes, yes ... I know that PRC has so many toys to play around.
> But remember: sow the seeds and so get your fruits, it maybe feel high sweet at first, but can lead you to the bitter end.


Sow the seeds and so get your fruits, the same to Vietnam. 

It's unnecessary to make a un-disputed islands whole controlled by China become the trouble between Vietnam and China, waste ur TIME and MONEY to challenge China sovereignty.


----------



## xesy

cnleio said:


> Sow the seeds and so get your fruits, the same to Vietnam.
> 
> It's unnecessary to make a un-disputed islands whole controlled by China become the trouble between Vietnam and China, waste ur TIME and MONEY to challenge China sovereignty.


Well, we paid little attention to the island until China claimed much of the SCS for itself. Things started to go sour after China showed the 9 dash-line map, remember?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## mycutegirl

xesy said:


> Using nuclear weapon is always illegal. You are welcome to do so if you are ready to take punishments from the whole world. So much for a peac-loving country, bring nuke around to scare people. You are giving us reasons to develop or buy nuke of our own.


1,china will never use nuke against such a poor&weak country like yours .because a normal PLAN with full open fire enough to pull down your country.
2,if you think chinese are afraid of sanction,you just need to review Korean War. 
3,and if the war between china and viet braek out,tell me which country will help you? uncle sam?do him have the courage to do it in china's gate.



BoQ77 said:


> China ever declared Senkaku belongs to Japan ?
> I wonder when the Diaoyu name used ?


china ever declared your country belongs to china as a province.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

cnleio said:


> Sow the seeds and so get your fruits, the same to Vietnam.
> 
> It's unnecessary to make a un-disputed islands whole controlled by China become the trouble between Vietnam and China, waste ur TIME and MONEY to challenge China sovereignty.


you admit that your govt is liar, so it's violated our sovereignty, we have right to defend our interest...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## xesy

mycutegirl said:


> 1,china will never use nuke against such a poor&weak country like yours .because a normal PLAN with full open fire enough to pull down your country.
> 2,if you think chinese are afraid of sanction,you just need to review Korean War.
> 3,and if the war between china and viet braek out,tell me which country will help you? uncle sam?do him have the courage to do it in china's gate.
> 
> 
> china ever declared your country belongs to china as a province.


1. I just quoted another Chinese member, not that I think so. But even the US considered nuked Vietnam, why China will not.
2. The world at that time was divided 2 side communism and capitalism. China had half of the world to back them in the Korean War.
3. The US goes around the world to play police. What prevents them to join the war if Vietnam signs some military agreements with them? I think they are more than happy to give Vietnam weapons to fight China. Vietnamese dies, China weakens, America wins.


----------



## mycutegirl

the Cairo Declaration need jap return diaoyu island and other island to china,do the jap carry out?
viet like use international law ?look, is the international law effective?
so be a soldier,gaining the territory always depand on a war,not depand on your mouth or a funny law.



xesy said:


> 1. I just quoted another Chinese member, not that I think so. But even the US considered nuked Vietnam, why China will not.
> 2. The world at that time was divided 2 side communism and capitalism. China had half of the world to back them in the Korean War.
> 3. The US goes around the world to play police. What prevents them to join the war if Vietnam signs some military agreements with them? I think they are more than happy to give Vietnam weapons to fight China. Vietnamese dies, China weakens, America wins.


the Soviet Union ever warn china that he will use nuke against china many times,and chinese never,surrender.
to china,most of chinese think many problem will be solved when china become more powerful,so we just need to wait.

by the way,if i were viet,i will choose join china to develop south sea,and give up some sovereignty for more investment.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## DragonEmpire

xesy said:


> Even if we are backed up, we are still the one who fight and die. Just because somebody gives you a weapon, you have to go out and start a shoot out with the police? What kind of moron to do that, and to bilieve someone would do that?


Yes, so you admit we are the East Asia police enforcing our law in East Asia. You are nothing but a street criminal trying to scam and con. Outgunned, outnumbered and outsmarted by the police. Now you are busted by the law and punishment will be "Singapore style."

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## xesy

mycutegirl said:


> the Cairo Declaration need jap return diaoyu island and other island to china,do the jap carry out?
> viet like use international law ?look, is the international law effective?
> so be a soldier,gaining the territory always depand on a war,not depand on your mouth or a funny law.
> 
> 
> the Soviet Union ever warn china that he will use nuke against china many times,and chinese never,surrender.
> to china,most of chinese think many problem will be solved when china become more powerful,so we just need to wait.
> 
> by the way,if i were viet,i will choose join china to develop south sea,and give up some sovereignty for more investment.


Do you know about nuclear deterrence? You nuke me I nuke you. It keeps nations with nuclear weapons not use them freely.
CCCP warned China but she could not start a nuclear war with China while the US is watching. The threat level was so low that China could ignore it.

Give away some sovereignty, but how much? In the land border treaty, it is rumored that Vietnam lost over 200 km square and much more before the treaty was signed. China was too aggressive in the oil rig incident and it backfired


----------



## xunzi

ViXuyen said:


> Currently there is no tension between Viet Nam and Phil. We have just played tug of war, soccer, and volleyball on our island
> 
> As for the Paracel islands; I can assure you that 99% of our tension/animosity toward China is because of this island chain. If China agrees to return just a few of those Paracel islands back to Viet Nam; that is a HUGE boost in normalizing relation between the two countries back to pre-1974


We don't believe this sport game will hide the true tension behind VN/PH . It is just a show to demonstrate unity but hardly any dispute is solved between the two. Until you do, we will respond.

As for Parcel island, we said we will accept negotiation and resolve through peaceful mean. Cooperation is needed from Vietnamese side. If you are friendly with our strategic goal and interest, anything is possible for us. These little rocks and reefs are only meant for us to protect our shipping route and monitor the US activity.


----------



## xesy

DragonEmpire said:


> Yes, so you admit we are the East Asia police enforcing our law in East Asia. You are nothing but a street criminal trying to scam and con. Outgunned, outnumbered and outsmarted by the police. Now you are busted by the law and punishment will be "Singapore style."


If China is a police, then she is a corrupted one. The kind of police go bully street rats and extort them for money. You talk about laws yet China refuses to go to court with Philipine. And stop twisting my word around. The US may be the world police, but only the UN court decides who is the criminal.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## yue10

i did not read anything in this thread but just wanted to post this gif, you can guess which one represents those barking annam dogs

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## xesy

Well that was easy. A big fat guy who provoked first then started kicking the shit out of other people. He even had more people on his side. Does it not look like China and Vietnam now?


----------



## Rechoice

yue10 said:


> i did not read anything in this thread but just wanted to post this gif, you can guess which one represents those barking annam dogs



This clip made in China, mr. Xi is stronger than mr. Bo.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

welcome new comer, not welcome new spammer.
1. your leader never say about nuke like you. To me, Chinese still poor, just pretend to be rich.
Don't allow big GDP lured you, GDP should be counted to Apple, Foxconn, ...
2. Let' review PRC ROC 1958, then you understand many things
3. Not so naive to think Vietnam depends much on outside help. That's not Vietnamese essence.
It's Our men and women will live or die for our country.



mycutegirl said:


> 1,china will never use nuke against such a poor&weak country like yours .because a normal PLAN with full open fire enough to pull down your country.
> 2,if you think chinese are afraid of sanction,you just need to review Korean War.
> 3,and if the war between china and viet braek out,tell me which country will help you? uncle sam?do him have the courage to do it in china's gate.
> 
> 
> china ever declared your country belongs to china as a province.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## xesy

BoQ77 said:


> welcome new comer, not welcome new spammer.
> 1. your leader never say about nuke like you. To me, Chinese still poor, just pretend to be rich.
> Don't allow big GDP lured you, GDP should be counted to Apple, Foxconn, ...
> 2. Let' review PRC ROC 1958, then you understand many things
> 3. Not so naive to think Vietnam depends much on outside help. That's not Vietnamese essence.
> It's Our men and women will live or die for our country.


Agreed. Whether it's Russian or American weapon, or even homemade arms, as long as Vietnam has a mean to fight, we fight to the end.


----------



## Bastion-P

Rechoice said:


> This clip made in China, mr. Xi is stronger than mr. Bo.


Xi and his gang is awesome

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## pigtaker

xesy said:


> Agreed. Whether it's Russian or American weapon, or even homemade arms, as long as Vietnam has a mean to fight, we fight to the end.


we will satisfy your wish, bombing vietnam back to stone age.

Chinese people are so angry for its government's inaction toward vietnam. This is the only time that we wish China is a democratic country so our government could follow people's opinion.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## xesy

pigtaker said:


> we will satisfy your wish, bombing vietnam back to stone age.
> 
> Chinese people are so angry for its government's inaction toward vietnam. This is the only time that we wish China is a democratic country so our government could follow people's opinion.


Did you just say the majority of your population want war? Where is your "Peacful Rise" now?

US tried and failed 40 years ago, what made you think China will success?


----------



## scherz

yue10 said:


> i did not read anything in this thread but just wanted to post this gif, you can guess which one represents those barking annam dogs


never underestimate the fat guy.


----------



## mycutegirl

BoQ77 said:


> welcome new comer, not welcome new spammer.
> 1. your leader never say about nuke like you. To me, Chinese still poor, just pretend to be rich.
> Don't allow big GDP lured you, GDP should be counted to Apple, Foxconn, ...
> 2. Let' review PRC ROC 1958, then you understand many things
> 3. Not so naive to think Vietnam depends much on outside help. That's not Vietnamese essence.
> It's Our men and women will live or die for our country.



1.china nuclear declaration,you can google:China is the first nuclear weapon state to adopt a nuclear no first use (NFU)，not to use nuclear weapons against non-nuclear weapons states.
about poor or rich,we must admit china still a developing country,US,JAP,even korea can call us the poor,but you viet call us the poor is not qualified,most of china is living in east of china,and this area nearly developed country,if you come to china,you can see.
and about the GDP of china is from you called Apple, Foxconn...is very small part of all GDP.the state - owned enterprises and massive private enterprise is in a great measure in the GDP of china.
2014 world's top 500 enterprises,china have 89(not including TAIWAN).and these enterprise employ lots of local people.you should read more materials if you judge chinese economy.
2.as a chinese,dont try to tell me chinese history,i konw much more than you.
3.good,if your premier do anyting like you said,respect for viet peoaaaaple.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## pigtaker

xesy said:


> Did you just say the majority of your population want war? Where is your "Peacful Rise" now?
> 
> US tried and failed 40 years ago, what made you think China will success?


Peaceful rise don't mean we don't protect our nation's interests.

We don't need to fight with you. we don't want your land. we will let you suffering: blanket bombing or destroying all your important assets: military base, port, birdge, power plant whatever, let you live a life of 30 years ago. This would set a perfect example for those countries who want to go agains China.

Economically, we will sanction you, let you become Asia's Cuba.


----------



## xesy

Your definition of peace is funny, too funny. China protect its intertest by crushing our interest.

You can try to bomb our country, or even use your DF. We won't give up easily. You know what Vietnam is good at: dragging stronger countries down to the mud and wearing them down, then making them give up and claiming victory.


----------



## athlon

pigtaker said:


> Peaceful rise don't mean we don't protect our nation's interests.
> 
> We don't need to fight with you. we don't want your land. we will let you suffering: blanket bombing or destroying all your important assets: military base, port, birdge, power plant whatever, let you live a life of 30 years ago. This would set a perfect example for those countries who want to go agains China.
> 
> Economically, we will sanction you, let you become Asia's Cuba.


In my country, peaceful means we do dialogue. Not threatening other country's ship.
If you get my point.


----------



## xesy

athlon said:


> In my country, peaceful means we do dialogue. Not threatening other country's ship.
> If you get my point.


Not just in India. Any nation would think peace means no war. Yet somehow our Chinese friend is ok with bombing other country while shouting "We rise in peace".


----------



## sweetgrape

xesy said:


> Not just in India. Any nation would think peace means no war. Yet somehow our Chinese friend is ok with bombing other country while shouting "We rise in peace".


Correct you, He is indonesian.


----------



## athlon

xesy said:


> Not just in India. Any nation would think peace means no war. Yet somehow our Chinese friend is ok with bombing other country while shouting "We rise in peace".


I'm in Indonesia, buddy. I have no idea about India as you saying 
Indeed, whole world already known how aggresive China is. 
Hopefully they begin doing dialogue first before sending any fleet to another country's yard


----------



## xesy

sweetgrape said:


> Correct you, He is indonesian.


Thanks. I am mistaken for the ID letter. I don't remember either Indonesia or India flag.



athlon said:


> I'm in Indonesia, buddy. I have no idea about India as you saying
> Indeed, whole world already known how aggresive China is.
> Hopefully they begin doing dialogue first before sending any fleet to another country's yard


Sorry if that bothers you.


----------



## Mr Second Back

EastSea said:


> You lie. Mr. Dzung himself never did it. Lying is no good, dude. How did chinese PM in China to demonstration protest Japan recently ? does he send sms ?


I hope it's a lie, or it is not clever for a PM to do this.



EastSea said:


> You lie. Mr. Dzung himself never did it. Lying is no good, dude. How did chinese PM in China to demonstration protest Japan recently ? does he send sms ?


You shouldnt campare Chinese PM with Vietnam, two PM doesnt have a same politcal knowledge level.


----------



## pigtaker

xesy said:


> Your definition of peace is funny, too funny. China protect its intertest by crushing our interest.
> 
> You can try to bomb our country, or even use your DF. We won't give up easily. You know what Vietnam is good at: dragging stronger countries down to the mud and wearing them down, then making them give up and claiming victory.


haha, we don't care if you give up or not, we just make sure that vietnam remain a backward and primitive country so that it will pose zero threat to China for at least another 100 years.


----------



## Mr Second Back

xesy said:


> Your definition of peace is funny, too funny. China protect its intertest by crushing our interest.
> 
> You can try to bomb our country, or even use your DF. We won't give up easily. You know what Vietnam is good at: dragging stronger countries down to the mud and wearing them down, then making them give up and claiming victory.


Vietnam was good at drag stronger countries like France and USA into mud because China is Vietnam's neighbour. Both of them must do everything careful. And the support of food, weapons came from USSR and China came Vietnam everyday. PLA in Vietnam army's uniform even came in Vietnam 40km to build a AA gun and missile frontline to help North Vietnam Army, and North Vietnam moved all factories into the PLA's frontline. Yes, there still depended on Vietnam people's blood, but without these help, Vietnam only can use spear and arrow to fight aginest France and USA. Is there someone think Vietnam would win?



xesy said:


> Your definition of peace is funny, too funny. China protect its intertest by crushing our interest.
> 
> You can try to bomb our country, or even use your DF. We won't give up easily. You know what Vietnam is good at: dragging stronger countries down to the mud and wearing them down, then making them give up and claiming victory.


BTW, I dont Think China will bomb Vietnam, which is very childlish and stupid.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## DragonEmpire

xesy said:


> If China is a police, then she is a corrupted one. The kind of police go bully street rats and extort them for money. You talk about laws yet China refuses to go to court with Philipine. And stop twisting my word around. The US may be the world police, but only the UN court decides who is the criminal.


So you admit that you are a street rat. Indeed, that you are 

Only Chinese courts can make law in East Asia. PLA enforces the laws. You street rats are criminals so your sentence is death.


xesy said:


> Well that was easy. A big fat guy who provoked first then started kicking the shit out of other people. He even had more people on his side. Does it not look like China and Vietnam now?


Yes the little guy thought he was the third most powerful military in the world 
Now you are entering a world of pain


----------



## xesy

Mr Second Back said:


> I hope it's a lie, or it is not clever for a PM to do this.
> 
> 
> You shouldnt campare Chinese PM with Vietnam, two PM doesnt have a same politcal knowledge level.


I don't know how things go in Europe but in Vietnam, any peaceful protests against China can be easilly turned into a riot with a few provocation. Vietnamese are not familiar with protest and how they should do it. Our govt is making a protest law.

Mr Dung did not send the SMS, the govt did. And it did tell us to not protest illegally and act acording to the law. However I don't see any problems with that.

To other posters: that DragonEmpire guy is a Nazi, I don't even want to argue with him, not that I am scared of him. Someone tell him to stop twisting my words around. Any Vietnamese members are welcome to fight him back.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## DragonEmpire

xesy said:


> Did you just say the majority of your population want war? Where is your "Peacful Rise" now?
> 
> US tried and failed 40 years ago, what made you think China will success?


Of course we are peaceful. After Viets are wiped out, Laotians and Cambodians will have peace at last.

China has patience. We will keep bombing you under your population levels reach 0.


----------



## Mr Second Back

xesy said:


> I don't know how things go in Europe but in Vietnam, any peaceful protests against China can be easilly turned into a riot with a few provocation. Vietnamese are not familiar with protest and how they should do it. Our govt is making a protest law.
> 
> Mr Dung did not send the SMS, the govt did. And it did tell us to not protest illegally and act acording to the law. However I don't see any problems with that.


Yes, people go to streets and tell government what they want is people's right, but people, themselves also need to obey the social contract, which means government offers the public service to people and people support and obey the government's decision. It's very nature in West Europé, but Asian countries havent such tradition. Democracy doesnt mean 100% freedom and you can do what you want to do. No!


----------



## xesy

Mr Second Back said:


> Vietnam was good at drag stronger countries like France and USA into mud because China is Vietnam's neighbour. Both of them must do everything careful. And the support of food, weapons came from USSR and China came Vietnam everyday. PLA in Vietnam army's uniform even came in Vietnam 40km to build a AA gun and missile frontline to help North Vietnam Army, and North Vietnam moved all factories into the PLA's frontline. Yes, there still depended on Vietnam people's blood, but without these help, Vietnam only can use spear and arrow to fight aginest France and USA. Is there someone think Vietnam would win?
> 
> 
> BTW, I dont Think China will bomb Vietnam, which is very childlish and stupid.


We are grateful for what China did in the Vietnam war. But that cannot discount what they have been doing. You know it's much harder to turn enemies to friends, while friends become foes for a little benefit. It's never simple as 100 of my people died for your country, now 100 of your people must die for my country.


----------



## 55100864

Funny how stupid Vietnamese, Filipino and Japanese desperately want their US master to start a war with China to destroy China so they can somehow become something significant. But their pathetic intelligence fail to realize that promoting war between US and China is like a little kid wants their parents to divorce. Just like Mongolia promoting war between Russia and China, Poland promoting war between Russia and EU.

U guys never learn from history, do u? ask Korean what it’s like when China and US was fighting？Ask polish about their part of WW 2 history. Now u see how Korean step out of this tension while u guys are jumping like targets.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## xesy

Mr Second Back said:


> Yes, people go to streets and tell government what they want is people's right, but people, themselves also need to obey the social contract, which means government offers the public service to people and people support and obey the government's decision. It's very nature in West Europé, but Asian countries havent such tradition. Democracy doesnt mean 100% freedom and you can do what you want to do. No!


Absolute freedom is no different from absolute chaos. (Deus Ex Human Revolution)
People don't need democracy. They need rules, bounderies... forces to protect them from invaders and from themselves. (Call of Duty Advanced Warfare)

It's funny how video game teaches us much more about the real world than text book, don't you think?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## xesy

55100864 said:


> Funny how stupid Vietnamese, Filipino and Japanese desperately want their US master to start a war with China to destroy China so they can somehow become something significant. But their pathetic intelligence fail to realize that promoting war between US and China is like a little kid wants their parents to divorce. Just like Mongolia promoting war between Russia and China, Poland promoting war between Russia and EU.
> 
> U guys never learn from history, do u? ask Korean what it’s like when China and US was fighting？Ask polish about their part of WW 2 history. Now u see how Korean step out of this tension while u guys are jumping like targets.


Children want their parents to divorce because the mother is beating up the children for eating up all their food while mother is hungry. And as far as I can see Chinese members in this forum are the one who embrace the idea of war. DragonEmpire is shouting to bomb and clean Vietnam with fire in other posts.


----------



## DragonEmpire

xesy said:


> Children want their parents to divorce because the mother is beating up the children for eating up all their food while mother is hungry.


So you admit it... children (Vietnam) are eating all the food (South China Sea) trying to leave the mother (China) hungry.... that's why Deng Xiaoping said when little children are naughty, it's time for a spanking   
After all the boasting, the "third most powerful military in the world" cries like a little baby


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

ViXuyen said:


> Viet Nam and China should do island swap. We give you the biggest Spratly island that we hold while you give us 12 Paracel islands that you robbed from us in 1974.



Even if you are the president or the PM of Vietnam, you have no right to offered to "swap" any territory of Vietnam. 
Only the Vietnam's National Assembly has right to decide on national territories. 

Both Paracels and Spratlys belong to Vietnam from centuries ago. China used force to rob the islands from Vietnam in 1974 and 1988. The action of using force to rob the islands from others that never makes a sovereignty for the chinese.


----------



## 55100864

xesy said:


> Children want their parents to divorce because the mother is beating up the children for eating up all their food while mother is hungry. And as far as I can see Chinese members in this forum are the one who embrace the idea of war. DragonEmpire is shouting to bomb and clean Vietnam with fire in other posts.


Face the reality, SCS is our important strategic shipping route, u really think we put our oil drill 981 because we care about the oil? We put the 981 in SCS because we can have reason to send battleship to protect the oil drill btw cover all of ur important military assets under our missile range, u already lose the war.

We did offer u to cooperate with us, resolve the disputes through dialog，u might even have all the oil in the SCS and sell to us, all we care about is the effective control of the SCS, u really think we just want the whole SCS become our territorial waters？why would we? It cost money and pointless. ur government is too stupid, after we build the canal in Thailand and the high speed train network, the whole south east Asian economy will be much more dynamic especially for vietnam. Now u have nothing.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## xesy

55100864 said:


> Face the reality, SCS is our important strategic shipping route, u really think we put our oil drill 981 because we care about the oil? We put the 981 in SCS because we can have reason to send battleship to protect the oil drill btw cover all of ur important military assets under our missile range, u already lose the war.
> 
> We did offer u to cooperate with us, resolve the disputes through dialog，u might even have all the oil in the SCS and sell to us, all we care about is the effective control of the SCS, u really think we just want the whole SCS become our territorial waters？why would we? It cost money and pointless. ur government is too stupid, after we build the canal in Thailand and the high speed train network, the whole south east Asian economy will be much more dynamic especially for vietnam. Now u have nothing.


It does not matter what Vietnam thinks. What matters is what China wants. If Vietnam backs down now, will China stop or she take further steps? Greed is infinite, you know. Also your voice is not the voice of your govt, so don't make any wild claims like those.

China did offer cooporation, yet she was the first to make a move. If China did not want to cause any problem, maybe the rig were deployed outside Vietnam EEZ.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

Bastion-P said:


> The number 1,400 may be right, but that must be from Chinese vessels against Vietnamese ships.
> Can you believe 1,400 incidents and Chineses forces can't produce even a single photo of them?
> I guess if their claim is true, then none of the Chinese on board knew how to operate a camera, or they do but their photography skills were too bad to capture the right moments
> 
> It was reported that Chinese vessels even "attacked" each other to produce fake evidence , but I think they were washing evidence of their ramming onto Vietnamese ships.
> Abnormal: Two Chinese ships themselves "sprinklers" to each other - News - Bubblews



Chinese face skin is very thick...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## zqdsg

xesy said:


> Well, we paid little attention to the island until China claimed much of the SCS for itself. Things started to go sour after China showed the 9 dash-line map, remember?


when did 9dash line map be made?you viets r always so stuped! no chinese help no viet!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Bob Ong

China is one nation the world needs to chain. It's full of autistic morons.Tell your China to participate in arbitration process. Don't be a coward to face the truth.


----------



## Bob Ong

zqdsg said:


> when did 9dash line map be made?you viets r always so stuped! no chinese help no viet!


nine dashed crap line is fabricated by your government and there's no historical evidence on your claim.


----------



## xesy

zqdsg said:


> when did 9dash line map be made?you viets r always so stuped! no chinese help no viet!


You write like a kindergarten. Go back study English.

In 2009 China used the 9 dash lines map to claim most of the SCS, which in turn sparked the reaction of many countries which have EEZ over it. If China had the map since 1949(I think) then why she did not show it when China claimed Paracels and Spartly in 1956, 1975 and 1988?


----------



## zqdsg

xesy said:


> You write like a kindergarten. Go back study English.
> 
> In 2009 China used the 9 dash lines map to claim most of the SCS, which in turn sparked the reaction of many countries which have EEZ over it. If China had the map since 1949(I think) then why she did not show it when China claimed Paracels and Spartly in 1956, 1975 and 1988?


当中国宣布九段线的时候越南在哪里？越南那个时候还是法国的殖民地，这就是你们越南悲哀的地方，因为你们那个时候没有存在感。是中国帮助越南赶走法国殖民者和美国人，但是越南人从来不报道，你们这些被政府洗脑的人总是以为自己是世界强国，甚至是世界第三，但是被中国打得还敢叫世界第三吗？越南政府以为给自己的国民洗脑让越南人认为西沙群岛属于越南就可以对抗中国，小心到时候这些岛礁全部到中国手上时越南人的愤怒可能会把越共推翻，这就是越南不自量力的地方。

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## DragonEmpire

zqdsg said:


> 当中国宣布九段线的时候越南在哪里？越南那个时候还是法国的殖民地，这就是你们越南悲哀的地方，因为你们那个时候没有存在感。是中国帮助越南赶走法国殖民者和美国人，但是越南人从来不报道，你们这些被政府洗脑的人总是以为自己是世界强国，甚至是世界第三，但是被中国打得还敢叫世界第三吗？越南政府以为给自己的国民洗脑让越南人认为西沙群岛属于越南就可以对抗中国，小心到时候这些岛礁全部到中国手上时越南人的愤怒可能会把越共推翻，这就是越南不自量力的地方。


面对一群自不量力而故意树华为敌的猴子，东风洗地是解决越南问题最彻底的方案。


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

OrionHunter said:


> How can a verdict be enforced on a country like China? It can't. What's Philippines going to do if China doesn't cooperate or comply even on a verdict by an international court / tribunal?
> 
> Utter waste of time. The only way is to sort out problems mutually to the satisfaction of both countries.



Main target when using the international court, which is, the Filipinos want to expose the lies of the chinese on so-called chinese vague "historical sovereignty".


----------



## fromdesert

cirr said:


> China has started land reclamation work on Nanxunjiao（Gaven Reef，located far left in the pic below）according to the Philippines media：
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do more，talk less。


There are no Justice and Law in chinese blood, China should educate their people. specially those little young guys. they like robbing, they dont like to talk


----------



## xesy

fromdesert said:


> There are no Justice and Law in chinese blood, China should educate their people. specially those little young guys. they like robbing, they dont like to talk


Don't stereo-type people like that, or you will become racist.
I think the problem is not with Chinese education but with Chinese information flow. Vietnamese have differenct sources of information other than the govt and state-run media. At least Vietnam does not put so much restriction on the Internet. On the other hand, Chinese rely on the govt for information. China heavily censors its Internet and pretty much seals itself off from the world.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Genesis

xesy said:


> Don't stereo-type people like that, or you will become racist.
> I think the problem is not with Chinese education but with Chinese information flow. Vietnamese have differenct sources of information other than the govt and state-run media. At least Vietnam does not put so much restriction on the Internet. On the other hand, Chinese rely on the govt for information. China heavily censors its Internet and pretty much seals itself off from the world.




Vietnam is communist, are you serious?! You guys are the exact same, you are not better. As to information. We have information from a ton of sources, you think Chinese people don't know things, because you never been to China and talk with the people. You think Vietnam is better, because you talk with Vietnamese. 


BTW, is it so difficult for you guys to understand we have a different point of view? If we are to be honest, China has as much claim to the islands as Vietnam, for we have been too connected through out our history, and Chinese history of dominance puts the islands within reach, especially since our ancient explorers have reached Australia, South Africa, and Mecca and beyond. 


You talk as if the government fooled the people into believing the island to be ours, when in fact if not for the government you country would have been rubble. You know those crazy ultra nationalists you guys have that calls for war with china and thinks you can win? We have those too, except in our case, we can actually win, and it makes much less sense for us to be non confrontational.


----------



## cirr

A new class of CCG ships found being built at CSSC's Longxue Shipbuilding Base in Guangzhou，China






（The smallest of the four in the dock）

More to come，a lot more。


----------



## xesy

Genesis said:


> Vietnam is communist, are you serious?! You guys are the exact same, you are not better. As to information. We have information from a ton of sources, you think Chinese people don't know things, because you never been to China and talk with the people. You think Vietnam is better, because you talk with Vietnamese.
> 
> 
> BTW, is it so difficult for you guys to understand we have a different point of view? If we are to be honest, China has as much claim to the islands as Vietnam, for we have been too connected through out our history, and Chinese history of dominance puts the islands within reach, especially since our ancient explorers have reached Australia, South Africa, and Mecca and beyond.
> 
> 
> You talk as if the government fooled the people into believing the island to be ours, when in fact if not for the government you country would have been rubble. You know those crazy ultra nationalists you guys have that calls for war with china and thinks you can win? We have those too, except in our case, we can actually win, and it makes much less sense for us to be non confrontational.


I didn't mean to offend you or any Chinese members. I am open to all opinions.
I don't say Vietnam is better, even we blocked some sites with anti-govt contents. But I want to point out the lack of Chinese participation into world wide social networks. Rather than joining existing networks, Chinese create their own and form a circle inside China. If I am not wrong, China has its own search engine, video sharing networks and social networks, most of which are owned by state-run firms.

I have seen 2-3 Vietnamese members in this forum who called for war with China. I think that's foolish. But there are also Chinese members provoke and use war to threaten us. Maybe they (both Vietnamese and Chinese members) are just trolls, or maybe they are warmongers. I hope our countries can solve it peacefully.

By "the government" do you mean Chinese or Vietnamese govt?


----------



## Genesis

xesy said:


> I didn't mean to offend you or any Chinese members. I am open to all opinions.
> I don't say Vietnam is better, even we blocked some sites with anti-govt contents. But I want to point out the lack of Chinese participation into world wide social networks. Rather than joining existing networks, Chinese create their own and form a circle inside China. If I am not wrong, China has its own search engine, video sharing networks and social networks, most of which are owned by state-run firms.
> 
> I have seen 2-3 Vietnamese members in this forum who called for war with China. I think that's foolish. But there are also Chinese members provoke and use war to threaten us. Maybe they (both Vietnamese and Chinese members) are just trolls, or maybe they are warmongers. I hope our countries can solve it peacefully.
> 
> By "the government" do you mean Chinese or Vietnamese govt?



First our social network sites are not owned by the state, and the state does fear its power. As of this moment unless these companies do something completely crazy, they are pretty much autonomous, I'm not sure if you know, but Chinese government control is not what you think it is. 

Chinese government does control the internet and spies too, US government does the same, China goes a step further, but with all social media, it's no good. 

For as much as the government blocks there are more out there. So it's the definition of a fool's errand. 


Chinese can very easily access Western sites if they choose to, and many do. But most don't, because they don't read English, but most of all, they consider American sources as propaganda, same way as Americans consider Chinese sources propaganda. In a way they are both right. 

The exact same event reported the same way, but in different tones can have different meanings. I'm sure you know. 


China doesn't use war to threaten, some people do, as is true in Vietnam. The reason is simple, this conflict is a political one and needs a political solution not a military one. The one with America is a military one and as well as political and economical. So that's a bit different.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## xesy

Genesis said:


> First our social network sites are not owned by the state, and the state does fear its power. As of this moment unless these companies do something completely crazy, they are pretty much autonomous, I'm not sure if you know, but Chinese government control is not what you think it is.
> 
> Chinese government does control the internet and spies too, US government does the same, China goes a step further, but with all social media, it's no good.
> 
> For as much as the government blocks there are more out there. So it's the definition of a fool's errand.
> 
> 
> Chinese can very easily access Western sites if they choose to, and many do. But most don't, because they don't read English, but most of all, they consider American sources as propaganda, same way as Americans consider Chinese sources propaganda. In a way they are both right.
> 
> The exact same event reported the same way, but in different tones can have different meanings. I'm sure you know.
> 
> 
> China doesn't use war to threaten, some people do, as is true in Vietnam. The reason is simple, this conflict is a political one and needs a political solution not a military one. The one with America is a military one and as well as political and economical. So that's a bit different.


Now we are talking. I believe the language barrier prevents many people to share their opinion, and those who can share are biased at some degree.

Can you tell me your opinion about the statement "will teach Vietnam a lesson it deserves" that Chinese news report a few day ago?


----------



## Genesis

xesy said:


> Now we are talking. I believe the language barrier prevents many people to share their opinion, and those who can share are biased at some degree.
> 
> Can you tell me your opinion about the statement "will teach Vietnam a lesson it deserves" that Chinese news report a few day ago?



Nothing but nationalistic reports to cool down the population. Like I said every move by the Chinese government indicates a peaceful final solution.

Everyone of those moves seems like very threatening, and potential powder keg but why did no explosives go off? Because the real intention wasn't war, but a political solution. 

Real politics are about dancing on a knife's edge, and not putting it all on the line. Vietnam being an old imperial power understands this, which is why Vietnam I believe will end this conflict with a smile. Japan being a developed nation will also end this everything in tact.


Some one has to lose out, guess who that will be. lol. This is why I always thought Vietnamese members on this forum are too aggressive and fail to see the full picture. They are oblivious to what Vietnam and China are actually doing.


----------



## xesy

Genesis said:


> Nothing but nationalistic reports to cool down the population. Like I said every move by the Chinese government indicates a peaceful final solution.
> 
> Everyone of those moves seems like very threatening, and potential powder keg but why did no explosives go off? Because the real intention wasn't war, but a political solution.
> 
> Real politics are about dancing on a knife's edge, and not putting it all on the line. Vietnam being an old imperial power understands this, which is why Vietnam I believe will end this conflict with a smile. Japan being a developed nation will also end this everything in tact.
> 
> 
> Some one has to lose out, guess who that will be. lol. This is why I always thought Vietnamese members on this forum are too aggressive and fail to see the full picture. They are oblivious to what Vietnam and China are actually doing.


Some, my friend, only some Vietnamese members are aggressive. Same goes to some Chinese members. They just stereo-type people and hate a whole race for that.

Hopefully both VN and China govts solve this peacefully and focus on internal affairs, like corruption, unemployment and pollution.


----------



## tbquestion

xesy said:


> Some, my friend, only some Vietnamese members are aggressive. Same goes to some Chinese members. They just stereo-type people and hate a whole race for that.
> 
> Hopefully both VN and China govts solve this peacefully and focus on internal affairs, like corruption, unemployment and pollution.


I hope Vietnam learn from this episode and start their nuclear weapon program right program right away. Because, the next time (there will be more )they won't be so lucky. With the North Korea help ($$) Vietnam can have a nuclear weapon in less than 10 years. Vietnam should not worry about economic sanction from the west as they had already survived one (USA embargo until 1994).

Who is Vietnam going to blame in 6-10 years, when China put them in a position that have they have to comply with its demand. The incompetent generals and politicians of today will then be in the ground or retirement home. Vietnam needs to create a weapon that the future generation can use to deter their enemy and be thankful for.


----------



## mycutegirl

fromdesert said:


> There are no Justice and Law in chinese blood, China should educate their people. specially those little young guys. they like robbing, they dont like to talk


i think its no necessary to talk with guys like you,image there's not a nation china inloved SCS dispute,do you think you,philipin&viet will be peace?
we have no patience and interest to talk or explain the SCS sovereign rights.
you completely free to distort、slander even abuse china govt or people,we answer you for manners.
but you cant change your weak govt and counterattack in SCS,and we can see,maybe chinese can totally disinterest dispute in SCS ,and viets try best to make a impassioned speach here,but whats the result,maybe decades later,chinese will watch a live show on TV that the PLAN expel the viets living on the SCS islanding which they robbing from china,and you viet can do nothing.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## xesy

tbquestion said:


> I hope Vietnam learn from this episode and start their nuclear weapon program right program right away. Because, the next time (there will be more )they won't be so lucky. With the North Korea help ($$) Vietnam can have a nuclear weapon in less than 10 years. Vietnam should not worry about economic sanction from the west as they had already survived one (USA embargo until 1994).
> 
> Who is Vietnam going to blame in 6-10 years, when China put them in a position that have they have to comply with its demand. The incompetent generals and politicians of today will then be in the ground or retirement home. Vietnam needs to create a weapon that the future generation can use to deter their enemy and be thankful for.


It is never simple as that when it comes to nuclear weapon.

As of now Japan is "one screw a way from nuclear weapon". Japan is capable of completing a nuke in 6 months, starts mass producing in 8 months. They can have ICBM in 8 months, mass produce in 12 months. But Japan does not take the step forward.

Nuclear weapon put too much power in a nation. It's never a mean to protect, but a mean to threat. The world is hanged from total destruction of an all out nuclear war because nations with nuke threat each other. The more countries join the nuclear circle, the more tension is built up. It's not comfortable living next to a neighbour having tons of explosive in his house, even if you too have some. The world must be careful when it come to countries which have nuke.

Also nuclear weapon is power. If too many countries have nuke then countries who already own nuke become less powerful. Their voices will not be as strong as before and they cannot allow that to happen. See what US is doing to NKorea and Iran to stop their nuclear program. And don't forget poor Iraq.


----------



## TaiShang

*China sends note to UN chief to clarify Xisha situation*

A Chinese envoy on Monday sent *a note to UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon, presenting documents making clear Vietnam's provocation and China's stance regarding the Xisha Islands in the South China Sea.*

In the note, Wang Min, China's deputy permanent representative to the United Nations, also asked Ban to circulate the documents, as UN General Assembly documents, among all UN member states...

"China sent the note to tell the international community the truth and set straight their understanding on the issue," Wang told reporters here after delivering China's second note to the UN chief on Vietnam's provocative actions on the sea. The first note was sent to Ban on May 22.

He noted that the actions of the Vietnamese side, which illegally and forcefully disrupted the Chinese operation, were serious infringements upon China's sovereignty, sovereign rights and jurisdiction, grave threats to the safety of Chinese personnel and the HYSY 981 drilling rig, and gross violations of the relevant international laws, including the Charter of the United Nations, the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) and 1988 Convention for the Suppression of Unlawful Acts against the Safety of Maritime Navigation and the Protocol for the Suppression of Unlawful Acts against the Safety of Fixed Platforms Located on the Continental Shelf.

"Such actions also undermined the freedom and safety of navigation in these waters, and damaged peace and stability in the region," Wang added.

The Chinese envoy stressed that Xisha Islands are an inherent part of China's territory, over which there is no dispute.

Wang quoted the documents as saying that, prior to 1974, none of the successive Vietnamese governments had ever challenged China 's sovereignty over the Xisha Islands.

"Vietnam had officially recognized the Xisha Islands as part of China's territory since ancient times," he said. "This position was reflected in its government statements and notes as well as its newspapers, maps and textbooks."

But now, Wang noted, the Vietnamese government goes back on its word by making territorial claims over China's Xisha Islands, which is a gross violation of the principles of international law, including the principle of estoppel, and the basic norms governing international relations.

Wang also underlined that China is a staunch force for maintaining peace and stability in the South China Sea and promoting cooperation between and development of countries in the region.

He went on to say that China wants good relations with Vietnam, but there are principles that China cannot abandon.

Wang reiterated that China urges Vietnam to bear in mind the overall interests of the bilateral relations and peace and stability in the South China Sea, respect China's sovereignty, sovereign rights and jurisdiction, immediately stop all forms of disruptions of the Chinese operation and withdraw all vessels and personnel from the site, so as to ease the tension and restore tranquility at sea as early as possible.

"China will continue its effort to communicate with Vietnam with a view to properly addressing the current situation," he added.


----------



## EastSea

TaiShang said:


> *China sends note to UN chief to clarify Xisha situation*
> 
> A Chinese envoy on Monday sent *a note to UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon, presenting documents making clear Vietnam's provocation and China's stance regarding the Xisha Islands in the South China Sea.*
> 
> In the note, Wang Min, China's deputy permanent representative to the United Nations, also asked Ban to circulate the documents, as UN General Assembly documents, among all UN member states...
> 
> "China sent the note to tell the international community the truth and set straight their understanding on the issue," Wang told reporters here after delivering China's second note to the UN chief on Vietnam's provocative actions on the sea. The first note was sent to Ban on May 22.
> 
> He noted that the actions of the Vietnamese side, which illegally and forcefully disrupted the Chinese operation, were serious infringements upon China's sovereignty, sovereign rights and jurisdiction, grave threats to the safety of Chinese personnel and the HYSY 981 drilling rig, and gross violations of the relevant international laws, including the Charter of the United Nations, the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) and 1988 Convention for the Suppression of Unlawful Acts against the Safety of Maritime Navigation and the Protocol for the Suppression of Unlawful Acts against the Safety of Fixed Platforms Located on the Continental Shelf.
> 
> "Such actions also undermined the freedom and safety of navigation in these waters, and damaged peace and stability in the region," Wang added.
> 
> The Chinese envoy stressed that Xisha Islands are an inherent part of China's territory, over which there is no dispute.
> 
> Wang quoted the documents as saying that, prior to 1974, none of the successive Vietnamese governments had ever challenged China 's sovereignty over the Xisha Islands.
> 
> "Vietnam had officially recognized the Xisha Islands as part of China's territory since ancient times," he said. "This position was reflected in its government statements and notes as well as its newspapers, maps and textbooks."
> 
> But now, Wang noted, the Vietnamese government goes back on its word by making territorial claims over China's Xisha Islands, which is a gross violation of the principles of international law, including the principle of estoppel, and the basic norms governing international relations.
> 
> Wang also underlined that China is a staunch force for maintaining peace and stability in the South China Sea and promoting cooperation between and development of countries in the region.
> 
> He went on to say that China wants good relations with Vietnam, but there are principles that China cannot abandon.
> 
> Wang reiterated that China urges Vietnam to bear in mind the overall interests of the bilateral relations and peace and stability in the South China Sea, respect China's sovereignty, sovereign rights and jurisdiction, immediately stop all forms of disruptions of the Chinese operation and withdraw all vessels and personnel from the site, so as to ease the tension and restore tranquility at sea as early as possible.
> 
> "China will continue its effort to communicate with Vietnam with a view to properly addressing the current situation," he added.



.
*China’s southeastern border ends at Hainan Island: Chinese Emperor’s map*
_VietNamNet Bridge – Another ancient document showing that China’s southeastern frontier ends at the Hainan Island has been found: a map that was drawn at the order of Emperor Kangxi of the Qing Dynasty in 1717._






_An electronic version taken of the original map kept in the British Library. The photo is provided by the Library._
_
China’s territory included land and waters where Chinese emperors had sovereignty over and controlled. Therefore, the easiest way to see China’s official territory is to consider China’s historical documents or Chinese maps published by Chinese emperors.

The map that was drawn and published at the order of Emperor Kangxi in 1717 is such evidence. This is an official document of China, with international values that China can use to determine their sovereign lands.

This article aims to identify an event that Emperor Kangxi sent Western Jesuits everywhere for topographic surveying and mapping of the Qing Dynasty’s territory.

This work took almost 10 years and its result was the map of China entitled “Huangyu quan lan tu” in 1717.

According to this map, the southeastern border of China ends at the Hainan Island. This is a new contribution because the maps by the Qing Dynasty that have been used so far have unknown origin and are unofficial.

On March 28, 2014, the German Chancellor Angela Merkel gave the copy of the map drawn by Jean-Baptiste Bourguignon d'Anville and printed in Germany in 1735 to Chinese President Xi Jinping.

*Introduction




*
The Huangyu quan lan tu map.

Before 1909, the Chinese government had not regarded the islands and the East Sea out of the southern island of Hainan as their waters and islands. At the same time, the Nguyen Lords and then Emperor Gia Long of Vietnam sent soldiers to the Paracel Islands.

This is recorded in the book “Phu Bien Tap Luc” by historian Le Quy Don (written from 1776-1784), in the official history in 1848, and foreigners also recorded the statement of sovereignty by Emperor Gia Long over the Paracel and Spratly Islands in an article published in 1837, and there were no objections from China.

Notably, many Chinese scholars have not used official historical documents or the official maps of the Chinese dynasties, especially the last Qing Dynasty to determine where the official border of China is. They have only used documents by travelers and explorers who only passed through and noted down what they heard. The maps they have used were all drawn by individuals, and not official maps.

To identify whether China previously considered Paracel and Spratly Islands as their territories, we should research the official historical documents of the Ming Dynasty (1368-1644), the Qing Dynasty (1644-1912) and the official maps of these two dynasties, because according to the International Court of Justice in 1933, the intention, will and effective implementation of the sovereignty must be at least identified in official historical documents and official documents.

The history of the Ming Dynasty and Qing Dynasty showed that China’s border ends at the Hainan Island. They did not care about the Southeast Asia Sea beyond Hainan, so China cannot say that the East Sea is their long historical area.

The documents noted by individuals are not considered evidence for sovereignty of their country in the areas where they passed.

In the Qing Dynasty, the Hainan Island included Qiong Zhu and Zhu Ya, later merged into the Qiong province. Thus the Paracel and Spratly Islands are not located within China’s border.

At that time, Vietnam’s Nguyen Lords (1558 - 1777) and the Nguyen Dynasty (1802-1862) exercised their continuous sovereignty over these islands without being opposed by China.

Under international law, a claimant for sovereignty based on the continuous exercise of sovereignty consists of two elements, and must prove that each element shows the intention and will to act as the owner, and some activities to prove that ownership.

In the case of Vietnam, the activities of Nguyen Lords in Paracel Islands were recorded by Vietnamese famous historian Le Quy Don in the official historical book entitled “Phu Bien Tap Luc”, and King Gia Long’s claims of sovereignty over the Paracels were recorded by Frenchman Taberd and published in 1837. The activities exercising Vietnam’s sovereignty over Paracel Islands conducted by the emperors after the death of Emperor Gia Long were also recorded in the official history.
*
Official map of Qing Dynasty*





The Da qing yi tong quan tu map.


There are many ancient Chinese maps published in China until the end of the Qing Dynasty that did not consider Paracel and Spratly Islands as Chinese territory.

The map below is the official map of the Qing Dynasty that was drawn by Western priests at the order of Emperor Kangxi (1644-1912) over 10 years.

Therefore, the purpose of this article is to examine this map. We can say this is the first time this map is reviewed for the purpose of determining the border of China.

According to the article “Traditional Chinese Cartography and the Myth of Westernization” by Cordell DK Yee, before the Jesuit Matteo Ricci (1552-1610) and Michelle Ruggieri (1543-1607) went to Guangdong in 1583 for missionaries, the Chinese knew how to use squares to express the spacing on the map, but they did not know that the earth is not flat, but spherical, and they did not know how to use the Ptolemaic system for expression.

Priest Matteo Ricci introduced the precise technical drawing of the West into China and considered it as the way to carry missionary work. Ricci redrew the map of China based on Chinese information, using Western drawing principles.

These maps just copied the available information, not based on topographic surveying. Some Chinese were interested in these maps and reprinted them. However, they changed the maps by their artistic vision since, at that time, Chinese intellectuals considered maps as art objects like paintings and calligraphic works, not precise sciences.

Even Ricci put China in the middle of the world map, presumably to make the Chinese happy. Emperor Kangxi was very interested in Western science, like mathematics and astronomy. He built an observatory in 1644 and decided to use a western calendar from 19/10/1644 because it was more accurate.

In 1698 the Jesuits asked for Emperor Kangxi’s approval to measure topography of China to draw the Chinese map, saying that the old maps were inaccurate and even misleading.

According to Cordell D.K. Yee, in 1698, after hearing the proposal by Jesuit Dominique Parenin (1665-1759), Emperor Kangxi asked Joachim Bouvet (1656-1730) to return to France to recruit those who had good knowledge of astronomy, mathematics, geography and topography measurements and take them to China to help redraw China’s map.

He returned to China with 10 specialists. Emperor Kangxi asked these people to draw the map of Tianjin in 1705. The task was completed in 70 days. In 1707 the emperor told French specialists to draw the map of the area around Beijing, which was completed in six months. In 1708, they were instructed to draw the Great Wall and the task was completed in 1709.

After considering the above maps, Emperor Kangxi found that the Western techniques in mapping were much better than the traditional way of China so he assigned the Western Jesuits to draw the map of entire China. This map was completed in 1717, called the “Huangyu quan lan tu”.

This map is mentioned in the historical book of the Qing Dynasty – Qing shi gao - as follows: "In the Kangxi 58th year, the entire map is completed. This is a comprehensive map consisting of 32 sheets. There are separate maps of provinces, one sheet for one province.”

The "Qing shi gao” is though not entirely the official history because it was completed in 1927 after the Qing Dynasty had fallen, but it was compiled at the order by the Qing King so it can be considered official.

The woodblock print by proportion 1:1.200.000 in 1721 also has 32 sheets, one sheet for each province, just like the map in 1719. This woodblock was sent by the Western Jesuits to Europe and it was used as the basis for the book “Description, Geographique, Historique, Chronologique, Politique, et Physique de l'empire de la Chine” (1735) by Du Halde and the book “Nouvel atlas de la Chine” by JB Bourguignon.

In 1726, the Kang Hsi Imperial Encyclopedia was completed, consisting of 216 administrative area maps, without Mongolia and Tibetan. These maps were similar as the maps drawn by the Jesuits, but not having the longitude and latitude lines.

The Kang Hsi Imperial Encyclopedia was printed by the Qing Dynasty in 1728, with 5,020 episodes, including illustrations and writings from the earliest times to the modern period, written under the Kangxi and Yongzheng dynasties. This encyclopedia includes 800,000 pages and 100 million words and there are only 60 printed copies.

The Chinese map was reprinted in Traditional Chinese Cartography and the Myth of Westernization by Cordell DK Yee as mentioned above (see photo). The photo also shows that the Chinese territory to the southeast ends at the Hainan Island.

The “Huangyu quan lan tu” map is the foundation for other maps published later in China, which do not have clear origin.

Here are some maps that are kept in Western libraries, which can be referred to online. All show that China or Guangdong province does not have the Paracel or Spratly Islands:

1. Huang yu quan lan fen sheng tu map is archived in the US Library of Congress. This map can be found online. This map was donated to the US Library of Congress in 1884, and the year of publication is 1693. The map was drawn by Western principles so it could not be made before the Emperor Kangxi asked Western priests to draw the new China’s map in 1705. The year of publication 1693 should be a mistake. The map must be drawn after 1717, after the Huangyu quan lan tu map was printed and it seems to be a copy.

2. Da qing yi tong quan tu map is currently stored in the National Library of Australia. This map, based on analysis by Cordell DK Yee (mentioned above) as well as maps in the Kang Hsi Imperial Encyclopedia, are just the copies of the official map Huangyu quan lan tu, without the two provinces of Xinjiang and Tibet, but it was drawn in the combined style of Western and Chinese. This map consists of 12 individual parts; part 1 is the whole of China; part 12 is Guangdong, which ends at the Hainan Island.

3. Huangyu Quantu is the official map published in late Qing Dynasty. In 1890 the Qing government wanted to standardize the mapping of provinces and administrative regions so it set up “huidianquan” and told these huidianquan to draw local maps, using the Western method, but many localities redrew the maps based on the maps of the Jesuits because they did not understand the drawing principles.

As a result, the Huangyu Quantu, 1899, in Qinding Da Qing huidian, includes 24 sets (Beijing Huidianguan, 1899). It is the official map because it was printed by Huidianguan.

Conclusion

It can be concluded that there is a map that was drawn by Western Jesuits at the order of Emperor Kangxi, i.e., China used to have a formal map.

According to this map, China’s border ends at the island of Hainan and nothing has changed then. This is also consistent with the history of China during the Ming Dynasty (History of Ming) and the Qing Dynasty (Draft History of Qing).

Ho Bach Thao, a Vietnamese researcher, had researched the History of Ming and the Draft History of Qing and found that these books did not mention Paracel and Spratly Islands and also showed that China’s border ends at Hainan Island.

The China map with the nine-dash line was made in 1947 by Bai Meichu, an official of the Chinese People's Republic (now Taiwan).

This homemade map that does not reflect the true history of China’s border, which has been used by the Chinese state, contrary to international law, to claim its sovereignty over the islands and sea areas within the U-shaped line, covering up to 85% of the East Sea.

They have used unorthodox and vague materials about the waters where Chinese people passed to prove that these waters belong to China from the Han Dynasty (206 BC - 220 AD).

This claim is completely contrary to the history of the Ming and Qing Dynasties and the map drawn at the order of the Qing Emperor Kangxi, which was drawn over 10 years by Western priests.

Until 1909, China - and only the government of Guangdong province - sent people to learn about the Paracel and it was not until 1952 that Zhou Enlai raised claims over the Spratly Islands for the first time.

Given that, Paracel and Spratly belonging to China since ancient times is fabricated and untrue.

Vu Quang Viet

_

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## fromdesert

Chinese guys take a shout loudly "all is ours...all is ours from 2,200 year before" OMG. china leaders like above so here some chinese guys try to brainwash every body.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fromdesert

9 dash lines is child's play. if you have 2 maps from difference publishers of china, I am sure that 9 dash lines are not the same because they are no coordinate, they base on nothing.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## xesy

China always wants to become a big brother. And here is China:
Power: checked.
Authority: checked.
Responsibility: not checked.
It seems the one-child policy make China forget how to be a brother/sister.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## fromdesert

mycutegirl said:


> i think its no necessary to talk with guys like you,image there's not a nation china inloved SCS dispute,do you think you,philipin&viet will be peace?
> we have no patience and interest to talk or explain the SCS sovereign rights.
> you completely free to distort、slander even abuse china govt or people,we answer you for manners.
> but you cant change your weak govt and counterattack in SCS,and we can see,maybe chinese can totally disinterest dispute in SCS ,and viets try best to make a impassioned speach here,but whats the result,maybe decades later,chinese will watch a live show on TV that the PLAN expel the viets living on the SCS islanding which they robbing from china,and you viet can do nothing.




Not only china has not sovereign in SCS but china also has not anything there, here are some ancient china maps.
please look South Morning Post writes what phillipines said
Chinese guys do not talk, because they are wrong, They cant explain, they fear the trust, real and law.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Nike

tbquestion said:


> I hope Vietnam learn from this episode and start their nuclear weapon program right program right away. Because, the next time (there will be more )they won't be so lucky. With the North Korea help ($$) Vietnam can have a nuclear weapon in less than 10 years. Vietnam should not worry about economic sanction from the west as they had already survived one (USA embargo until 1994).
> 
> Who is Vietnam going to blame in 6-10 years, when China put them in a position that have they have to comply with its demand. The incompetent generals and politicians of today will then be in the ground or retirement home. Vietnam needs to create a weapon that the future generation can use to deter their enemy and be thankful for.



is not wise and very stupid idea, ASEAN will expel Vietnam for sure if they suddenly arming themselves with Nuke, we had conclude the agreement about ASEAN is nuke free region and organizations. And Vietnam will lose more diplomatic support for their cause in South China Sea. And all of their economic advance will be halted because of embargoed and sanctions put by international community just like Iran and North Korea suffer till now. In the end, is Vietnam people who will suffer not the China not the international community.


----------



## EastSea

madokafc said:


> is not wise and very stupid idea, ASEAN will expel Vietnam for sure if they suddenly arming themselves with Nuke, we had conclude the agreement about ASEAN is nuke free region and organizations. And Vietnam will lose more diplomatic support for their cause in South China Sea. And all of their economic advance will be halted because of embargoed and sanctions put by international community just like Iran and North Korea suffer till now. In the end, is Vietnam people who will suffer not the China not the international community.



don't worry bro, nuke ? it is our last cart.


----------



## mycutegirl

tbquestion said:


> I hope Vietnam learn from this episode and start their nuclear weapon program right program right away. Because, the next time (there will be more )they won't be so lucky. With the North Korea help ($$) Vietnam can have a nuclear weapon in less than 10 years. Vietnam should not worry about economic sanction from the west as they had already survived one (USA embargo until 1994).
> 
> Who is Vietnam going to blame in 6-10 years, when China put them in a position that have they have to comply with its demand. The incompetent generals and politicians of today will then be in the ground or retirement home. Vietnam needs to create a weapon that the future generation can use to deter their enemy and be thankful for.


viet developing nuke techs is a good excuse for china,even USA to overthrow the viet's govt with the use of force.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

mycutegirl said:


> viet developing nuke techs is a good excuse for china,even USA to overthrow the viet's govt with the use of force.



aggressive china is excuse for that USA transfer nuke technology to Viet.

BEIJING - The "advanced negotiations" between the United States and Vietnam to share nuclear fuel and technology disrupt international stability, Chinese analysts have said.

"The US is used to employing double standards when dealing with different countries ... as a global power that has promoted denuclearization, it has challenged its own reputation and disturbed the preset international order," said Teng Jianqun, deputy-director of the China Arms Control and Disarmament Association, on Thursday.

US-Vietnam nuke deal 'destabilizing'


----------



## Zero_wing

Gayjing is stupid dont worry too much my vietnamese friend you kick their imperial behinds ones heck did that too so no problem this this time you got world backing


----------



## cirr

*CCG 3402* launched on 13.06.2014 at HPS











More pics when available。

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TaiShang

cirr said:


> *CCG 3402* launched on 13.06.2014 at HPS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More pics when available。



I think the mighty Viet Navy will sight that before anybody else. Damn, they are a lucky bunch!


----------



## EastSea

cirr said:


> *CCG 3402* launched on 13.06.2014 at HPS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More pics when available。


----------



## areal

madokafc said:


> is not wise and very stupid idea, ASEAN will expel Vietnam for sure if they suddenly arming themselves with Nuke, we had conclude the agreement about ASEAN is nuke free region and organizations. And Vietnam will lose more diplomatic support for their cause in South China Sea. And all of their economic advance will be halted because of embargoed and sanctions put by international community just like Iran and North Korea suffer till now. In the end, is Vietnam people who will suffer not the China not the international community.





really a good conclusion against our viet friends' psycholagny on a viet with nuke
it is really interesting that it seems that vietnamese think that they can bring a much more powerful country through such online posts on nuclear weapons.



xesy said:


> You write like a kindergarten. Go back study English.
> 
> In 2009 China used the 9 dash lines map to claim most of the SCS, which in turn sparked the reaction of many countries which have EEZ over it. If China had the map since 1949(I think) then why she did not show it when China claimed Paracels and Spartly in 1956, 1975 and 1988?




Poor guy, we both, i mean, both china and vietnam, had and have these maps since 1946, it is not 2009, but 1946. in 2009, China just released a standard map form on how 9-dash lines should be drawn.
being uneducated is not your fault, but showing your ignorance everywhere is.
find and check your own maps in your vietnamese library before 1974, you will find lots of 9-dash lines to show vietnamese agreed that SCS belong to China.


----------



## xesy

areal said:


> find and check your own maps in your vietnamese library before 1974, you will find lots of 9-dash lines to show vietnamese agreed that SCS belong to China.


Either China showed that Vietnamese 9 line dashes map to the world, or it doesn't exist. Even China cannot show a second Chinese 9 dash lines map, why do you expect Vietnam to show one (in case it even exists)? Hell, now China does not even bother mentioning that map again in front of the UN or the international media, why do Chinese members keep using it as a concrete proof?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## fromdesert

areal said:


> really a good conclusion against our viet friends' psycholagny on a viet with nuke
> it is really interesting that it seems that vietnamese think that they can bring a much more powerful country through such online posts on nuclear weapons.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Poor guy, we both, i mean, both china and vietnam, had and have these maps since 1946, it is not 2009, but 1946. in 2009, China just released a standard map form on how 9-dash lines should be drawn.
> being uneducated is not your fault, but showing your ignorance everywhere is.
> find and check your own maps in your vietnamese library before 1974, you will find lots of 9-dash lines to show vietnamese agreed that SCS belong to China.


There is always "gangster" on mouth of china guys


----------



## cirr

*CCG 3402*




































More to come，a lot more。

Bigger ships to come，a lot bigger。

Do more，talk less。

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

*CCG 2307* spotted at WC in inland city of Wuhan：






*CCG 2306* and *CCG 2307*






*CCG 2308* in the dock






The photographer took the pics of the new CCG ships by accident while taking photos of a new bridge that spans the mighty Yangtse River。


----------



## areal

it is believed that most such viet maps, atlas, and books were destroyed in a carefully designed schedule in 1974 as the re-united viet decided to steal the things that they never deserved and faked the biggest history illusion that human kind can ever see.


xesy said:


> Either China showed that Vietnamese 9 line dashes map to the world, or it doesn't exist. Even China cannot show a second Chinese 9 dash lines map, why do you expect Vietnam to show one (in case it even exists)? Hell, now China does not even bother mentioning that map again in front of the UN or the international media, why do Chinese members keep using it as a concrete proof?



fortunately, viet cannot destroy any diplomatic documents that they sent, so that we have solid proofs to show how a country, a people can swallow every letters of their words in such a shameless way.


xesy said:


> Either China showed that Vietnamese 9 line dashes map to the world, or it doesn't exist. Even China cannot show a second Chinese 9 dash lines map, why do you expect Vietnam to show one (in case it even exists)? Hell, now China does not even bother mentioning that map again in front of the UN or the international media, why do Chinese members keep using it as a concrete proof?



these ships are too large to match the little ship model of our viet friends, we should build much smaller CCG ships in order not to frighten our viet friends too much.
china is loving peace always, but not lose children's interesting on playing water spraying game with little kids over sea.



cirr said:


> *CCG 2307* spotted at WC in inland city of Wuhan：
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *CCG 2306* and *CCG 2307*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *CCG 2308* in the dock
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The photographer took the pics of the new CCG ships by accident while taking photos of a new bridge that spans the mighty Yangtse River。


v


----------



## Soryu

areal said:


> it is believed that most such viet maps, atlas, and books were destroyed in a carefully designed schedule in 1974 as the re-united viet decided to steal the things that they never deserved and faked the biggest history illusion that human kind can ever see.
> 
> 
> fortunately, viet cannot destroy any diplomatic documents that they sent, so that we have solid proofs to show how a country, a people can swallow every letters of their words in such a shameless way.
> 
> 
> these ships are too large to match the little ship model of our viet friends, we should build much smaller CCG ships in order not to frighten our viet friends too much.
> china is loving peace always, but not lose children's interesting on playing water spraying game with little kids over sea.
> 
> 
> v


Can you give proof about what you said !? 
Your stupid proof like Pham Van Dong letter can't help you prove SCS belong to China, buddy ...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## areal

wow, a formal diplomatic document sent by your PM is stupid, yes, every viet will feel such sending is really stupid.
need advice? viet nam gov. can declare that Pham Van Dong was expel his nationality of vietnam citizen, so that vietnam can truly declare that it has nothing with such stupid thing.


Soryu said:


> Can you give proof about what you said !?
> Your stupid proof like Pham Van Dong letter can't help you prove SCS belong to China, buddy ...


----------



## Soryu

areal said:


> wow, a formal diplomatic document sent by your PM is stupid, yes, every viet will feel such sending is really stupid.
> need advice? viet nam gov. can declare that Pham Van Dong was expel his nationality of vietnam citizen, so that vietnam can truly declare that it has nothing with such stupid thing.


ignore my question !? 


> it is believed that most such viet maps, atlas, and books were destroyed in a carefully designed schedule in 1974 as the re-united viet decided to steal the things that they never deserved and faked the biggest history illusion that human kind can ever see.


Give proof, buddy ... 

PVD letter can't give your 9-dash-lines any excuse ...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## areal

mostly intentionally destroyed, ..., but at least you can find from the following link

“981”钻井平台作业：越南的挑衅和中国的立场

if you cannot read chinese, just download the following altas and textbook segments in your own vietnamese language to see how your viet swallow your own words:

http://www.fmprc.gov.cn/mfa_chn/ziliao_611306/1179_611310/W020140608607429165973.zip
http://www.fmprc.gov.cn/mfa_chn/ziliao_611306/1179_611310/W020140608602937582734.zip



Soryu said:


> ignore my question !?
> 
> Give proof, buddy ...
> 
> PVD letter can't give your 9-dash-lines any excuse ...


----------



## Soryu

areal said:


> mostly intentionally destroyed, ..., but at least you can find from the following link
> 
> “981”钻井平台作业：越南的挑衅和中国的立场
> 
> if you cannot read chinese, just download the following altas and textbook segments in your own vietnamese language to see how your viet swallow your own words:
> 
> http://www.fmprc.gov.cn/mfa_chn/ziliao_611306/1179_611310/W020140608607429165973.zip
> http://www.fmprc.gov.cn/mfa_chn/ziliao_611306/1179_611310/W020140608602937582734.zip



Sorry boy, your trick was old ... 
I explained it in another thread ... but Mod has move it to somewhere ...

At before 1975, almost Vietnamese education text book was printed by PRC, who's simply play dirty trick at everytime ... 

In those book, only mention about Xisha and Nansha as China territory, nothing about damn 11 or 9-dash-lines or Paracel or Spratly Islands, so We didn't give a damn complain about it for sure ...

Still now, nobody but some delusion boys believe at 9-dash-lines map ... and Nobody, include delusion boys can explain what's 9-dash-lines or what's it base on, in properly way.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ViXuyen

Holdings of island/reef/shoal in the Spratlys by countries







Anyway, build baby build

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cirr

*CCG 2305*






*CCG 2306* and *2307*






New submarine being outfitted






Outfitting the Nth Type 056 FFG






Last but not the least，an FFG（F18N）for export

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

@Hu Songshan can you move mr Cirr's post to Chinese defense section !?

THIS IS SOUTH CHINA SEA NEWS DISCUSSIONS. NOT PR THREAD FOR CHINESE DEFENSE INDUSTRY ...

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## areal

sorry, i don't even know that china once help print textbook for north viet!
but the contents were also determined by china, too? what a joke. don't insult IQ of this world.



Soryu said:


> Sorry boy, your trick was old ...
> I explained it in another thread ... but Mod has move it to somewhere ...
> 
> At before 1975, almost Vietnamese education text book was printed by PRC, who's simply play dirty trick at everytime ...
> 
> In those book, only mention about Xisha and Nansha as China territory, nothing about damn 11 or 9-dash-lines or Paracel or Spratly Islands, so We didn't give a damn complain about it for sure ...
> 
> Still now, nobody but some delusion boys believe at 9-dash-lines map ... and Nobody, include delusion boys can explain what's 9-dash-lines or what's it base on, in properly way.



agree.
it is not good to let our viet friends frightened.


Soryu said:


> @Hu Songshan can you move mr Cirr's post to Chinese defense section !?
> 
> THIS IS SOUTH CHINA SEA NEWS DISCUSSIONS. NOT PR THREAD FOR CHINESE DEFENSE INDUSTRY ...


----------



## cirr

Soryu said:


> @Hu Songshan can you move mr Cirr's post to Chinese defense section !?
> 
> THIS IS SOUTH CHINA SEA NEWS DISCUSSIONS. NOT PR THREAD FOR CHINESE DEFENSE INDUSTRY ...



lol。

This is a small part of the grand Chinese law enforcement fleet you lot will face in the SCS in the years ahead。

These ships，which will play an important role in the ultimate settlement of the territorial conflicts between the SCS claimants，are certainly part of the discussion。

Talk is cheap。Do more，talk less。


----------



## cirr

China carrying out land reclamation operations in 6 reefs：

















More to follow。


----------



## cirr

*CMS 1105* is being outfitted at WCS：






This kind of 1k-tonnage ship is about the right size for face-offs with our Vietnamese friends in the SCS。


----------



## Soryu

cirr said:


> lol。
> This is a small part of the grand Chinese law enforcement fleet you lot will face in the SCS in the years ahead。
> 
> These ships，which will play an important role in the ultimate settlement of the territorial conflicts between the SCS claimants，are certainly part of the discussion。
> Talk is cheap。Do more，talk less。


So give information about what force they will be delivery, when will they come, how their operation in SCS ...
If you can't do that, so stop your post. I noticed you post same image some time, this will waste forum resources, kid ...



areal said:


> sorry, i don't even know that china once help print textbook for north viet!
> but the contents were also determined by china, too? what a joke. don't insult IQ of this world.



Joke is you, you're in propaganda from PRC, believe in kind of "South China Sea belong to China".

I said we didn't noticed about your joke Xisha and Nansha, almost Vietnamese didn't know about where and what the hell those Islands are. PRC didn't mention about 9-dash-lines or Paracel and Spratly in those book.

Map and contents text were not in same book, so most people didn't noticed it.

AND AGAIN, CHINA CLAIM IS ALL SOUTH CHINA SEA, NOT ONLY TWO GROUP ISLANDS.
AND YOU CAN'T PROVE SCS BELONG TO CHINA FROM THOUSAND YEARS AGO LIKE YOUR JOKE PROPAGANDA.

P/S: *you can create your own thread like: "Chinese ships operate on SCS" to satisfy yourself ...*

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## areal

islands in SCS belong to china, that is fact and was agreed by your word-eating country before 1974.
according to the basic principles of international laws, sea is assigned to who possesses the land or island.
so the ENTIRE SCS belongs to china by all means.
don't say it is unfair, just blame your incapable ancestors.


Soryu said:


> So give information about what force they will be delivery, when will they come, how their operation in SCS ...
> If you can't do that, so stop your post. I noticed you post same image some time, this will waste forum resources, kid ...
> 
> 
> 
> Joke is you, you're in propaganda from PRC, believe in kind of "South China Sea belong to China".
> 
> I said we didn't noticed about your joke Xisha and Nansha, almost Vietnamese didn't know about where and what the hell those Islands are. PRC didn't mention about 9-dash-lines or Paracel and Spratly in those book.
> 
> Map and contents text were not in same book, so most people didn't noticed it.
> 
> AND AGAIN, CHINA CLAIM IS ALL SOUTH CHINA SEA, NOT ONLY TWO GROUP ISLANDS.
> AND YOU CAN'T PROVE SCS BELONG TO CHINA FROM THOUSAND YEARS AGO LIKE YOUR JOKE PROPAGANDA.
> 
> P/S: *you can create your own thread like: "Chinese ships operate on SCS" to satisfy yourself ...*


----------



## Soryu

areal said:


> islands in SCS belong to china, that is fact and was agreed by your word-eating country before 1974.
> _*according to the basic principles of international laws, sea is assigned to who possesses the land or island.*_
> so the ENTIRE SCS belongs to china by all means.
> don't say it is unfair, just blame your incapable ancestors.


What law then !? 
What international law allowed Chinese draw a ridiculous map in 1947 and got right to possesses South China Sea !?

Who accepted your illegal actions by military force and robbed other countries Island still now !?
Who recognized Paracel and Spratly belong to China but yourself !?

China claim base on joke "historical record", not on International law, that 's declared by China Govt, kid. 
You fool no one but yourself ....

And follow your logic, it's fair when other countries invade your country, rob your land, harm your people, because you're incapable to defend yourself.
So stop demand apologize from Japan for what they did with you in WW2, stop crying about eight power countries invade China in past ... let cheer about it.
Truly, you're bow your head before them to gain their support after 1972 ...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## CN.Black

Soryu said:


> @Hu Songshan can you move mr Cirr's post to Chinese defense section !?
> 
> THIS IS SOUTH CHINA SEA NEWS DISCUSSIONS. NOT PR THREAD FOR CHINESE DEFENSE INDUSTRY ...


 Viet puppy is scared.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## areal

it is you, your country, your leaders, who recognized Paracel and Spratly belong to China.
why we have issued in SCS, because viet swallowed their own words letter by letter.



Soryu said:


> What law then !?
> What international law allowed Chinese draw a ridiculous map in 1947 and got right to possesses South China Sea !?
> 
> Who accepted your illegal actions by military force and robbed other countries Island still now !?
> Who recognized Paracel and Spratly belong to China but yourself !?
> 
> China claim base on joke "historical record", not on International law, that 's declared by China Govt, kid.
> You fool no one but yourself ....
> 
> And follow your logic, it's fair when other countries invade your country, rob your land, harm your people, because you're incapable to defend yourself.
> So stop demand apologize from Japan for what they did with you in WW2, stop crying about eight power countries invade China in past ... let cheer about it.
> Truly, you're bow your head before them to gain their support after 1972 ...


----------



## Soryu

areal said:


> it is you, your country, your leaders, who recognized Paracel and Spratly belong to China.
> why we have issued in SCS, because viet swallowed their own words letter by letter.


Kid, your words are ridiculous joke and nobody take it serious, just like China 9-dash-lines.

Ignore the fact and my questions can't help you hide it, your Govt is liar and you were fool by their propaganda ...

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## areal

who is liar? who is the one overturned his promise, standpoint?
it is not the china gov. admitted that nanshan and xishan belonged to viet, and then shamelessly took the words back.
but your viet nam gov. and brainwashed people who are the truly liars.


Soryu said:


> Kid, your words are ridiculous joke and nobody take it serious, just like China 9-dash-lines.
> 
> Ignore the fact and my questions can't help you hide it, your Govt is liar and you were fool by their propaganda ...


----------



## areal

yes, you surely know, all the world has witnessed the map in vietnamese language with nansha and xisha published before 1974.
your viet gov. felt very annoyed as it cannot destroyed all the diplomatic letters, documents that admitted that xishan and nanshan belonged to china as it destroyed all the inconvenient maps that it once printed before 1974.

by the way, one of your viet guys in this forum just declared that all maps before 1974 in viet nam have been destroyed because of the damned war. it is really a pity. i am sorry to hear about that.



Soryu said:


> We don't know what the hell is Nansha and Xisha ... Paracel and Spratly belong to Vietnam.
> Dirty dog attacked us and robbed our Islands when we're in chaos of war, we will kick them out our Island when time come ...


----------



## EastSea

*Sovereignty cannot be seized by force
*
_VietNamNet Bridge - "Mentioning sovereignty is national sovereignty, i.e., sovereignty established and exercised by the State in terms of peace, without dispute, absolutely not sovereignty seized by force," said Prof. Dr. Nguyen Quang Ngoc, the chair of the Council for Appraisal of Artifacts, Historical and Legal Evidence for Vietnam’s Sovereignty over the Paracel and Spratly Islands.





The World Atlas (Bruxelles - 1827) by the eminent geographer Philippe Vandermaelen (1795-1869), member of the Paris Geographical Society, includes a map showing that the Paracel Islands belong to Vietnam.

Prof. Dr. of History Nguyen Quang Ngoc was one of the first members of the Council for Appraisal of Artifacts, Historical and Legal Evidence for Vietnam’s Sovereignty over the Hoang Sa (Paracel) and Truong Sa (Spratly) Islands.

He has long been completing the tasks of assessment, decoding artifacts, compiling historical and legal evidence and arranging them to serve as basis for exhibitions on the Hoang Sa - Truong Sa islands held by the Ministry of Information and Communications.

Ngoc said there is much legal evidence that affirms Vietnam's sovereignty over the two archipelagos of Hoang Sa - Truong Sa, including important and vivid evidence contributed by ordinary people.

Ngoc said the first exhibition of this type was organized by Da Nang City named "Hoang Sa - Truong Sa Documents," mainly the documents about Hoang Sa. The documents are part of ta research project by Dr. Tran Duc Anh Son and some overseas Vietnamese. They include a number of Western maps and Western atlases about China.

When the External Information Department of the Ministry of Information and Communication organized the national exhibition on Hoang Sa - Truong Sa, Mr. Ngoc was invited as the chair of the document evaluation council, which consisted of many experts from the Government Boundary Committee, the Ministry of Science and Technology, the Center for Marine and Maritime Research, the Mapping Bureau, and others.

The Council decided to choose historic Western maps collected by Dr. Tran Duc Anh Son, the Western Atlas about China that had recently been collected in the US, and some old maps and documents of Vietnam, particularly documents called “Chau Ban” (administrative documents of the royal court) as the exhibits in the national exhibition on Vietnam’s sovereignty over Hoang Sa in the central province of Ha Tinh. The exhibition was a big success.

After each exhibition, the organizers received opinions and materials from the public to enrich their objects, documents and evidence for the next exhibition.

At the exhibition in Thai Nguyen, the organizers added photos of historic maps of the West, proving Vietnam’s sovereignty over Hoang Sa and Truong Sa. These are the photos of the original maps, so the quality is very good, Ngoc said. According to Ngoc, these photos were taken by Dr. Tran Duc Anh Son in France. Among them is a map by Taberd in 1838.


Ngoc said the amount of evidence, both historical and legal, of Vietnam’s sovereignty over Hoang Sa and Truong Sa, is huge. In terms of ancient maps alone, there are several hundred old maps of the West but the council only chose several dozen of the maps for exhibitions. There are also many valuable “chau ban”, particularly those of the Nguyen Dynasty (1802-1945).

Ngoc said sovereignty is national sovereignty, ie sovereignty that is established and enforced by the State in conditions of peace, without dispute, absolutely not sovereignty seized by force, or sovereignty of individuals or factions. Therefore, documents of the state or “chau ban” are the most appreciated in regards to legality.

He emphasized that the “chau ban”, including the reports of ministries and agencies to the emperor on sending boats to Hoang Sa to map and collect marine resources, are unique documents that only Vietnam has. These documents are highly praised for their legal value over Vietnam’s sovereignty of Hoang Sa and Truong Sa.

*Di Linh*
_

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## BuddhaPalm

^ Viet liars as usual. The map says the Paracels and Spratlys belong to China! Viets know all their own maps do not include Paracels or Spratlys so they beg for help from Westerners.


----------



## areal

viet nam gov. and so-called researchers dig all ancient literature to find evidence to support their day-dreaming illegal claim over xishan and nansha islands, but unfortunately, they found none, and they could never give solid proof and verification on where the paracel island in old maps was truly located, so viet changed to a smarter strategy to cheat the entire world, what the viet did and do is to claim all hoang sa in old literature and maps is always referred to paracel, all truong sa always referred to spratly, no matter how these hoang sa and truong sa were close to mainland of viet nam. such proofs demonstrated nothing but how much IQ of viet gov. and people have.

see this map on how western maps made a mistake on paracel and how this mistake was fully taken advantage of by viet:

http://s15.sinaimg.cn/orignal/564cb1f8gddfbe05fee9e




EastSea said:


> *Sovereignty cannot be seized by force
> *
> _VietNamNet Bridge - "Mentioning sovereignty is national sovereignty, i.e., sovereignty established and exercised by the State in terms of peace, without dispute, absolutely not sovereignty seized by force," said Prof. Dr. Nguyen Quang Ngoc, the chair of the Council for Appraisal of Artifacts, Historical and Legal Evidence for Vietnam’s Sovereignty over the Paracel and Spratly Islands.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The World Atlas (Bruxelles - 1827) by the eminent geographer Philippe Vandermaelen (1795-1869), member of the Paris Geographical Society, includes a map showing that the Paracel Islands belong to Vietnam.
> Prof. Dr. of History Nguyen Quang Ngoc was one of the first members of the Council for Appraisal of Artifacts, Historical and Legal Evidence for Vietnam’s Sovereignty over the Hoang Sa (Paracel) and Truong Sa (Spratly) Islands.
> 
> He has long been completing the tasks of assessment, decoding artifacts, compiling historical and legal evidence and arranging them to serve as basis for exhibitions on the Hoang Sa - Truong Sa islands held by the Ministry of Information and Communications.
> 
> Ngoc said there is much legal evidence that affirms Vietnam's sovereignty over the two archipelagos of Hoang Sa - Truong Sa, including important and vivid evidence contributed by ordinary people.
> 
> Ngoc said the first exhibition of this type was organized by Da Nang City named "Hoang Sa - Truong Sa Documents," mainly the documents about Hoang Sa. The documents are part of ta research project by Dr. Tran Duc Anh Son and some overseas Vietnamese. They include a number of Western maps and Western atlases about China.
> 
> When the External Information Department of the Ministry of Information and Communication organized the national exhibition on Hoang Sa - Truong Sa, Mr. Ngoc was invited as the chair of the document evaluation council, which consisted of many experts from the Government Boundary Committee, the Ministry of Science and Technology, the Center for Marine and Maritime Research, the Mapping Bureau, and others.
> 
> The Council decided to choose historic Western maps collected by Dr. Tran Duc Anh Son, the Western Atlas about China that had recently been collected in the US, and some old maps and documents of Vietnam, particularly documents called “Chau Ban” (administrative documents of the royal court) as the exhibits in the national exhibition on Vietnam’s sovereignty over Hoang Sa in the central province of Ha Tinh. The exhibition was a big success.
> 
> After each exhibition, the organizers received opinions and materials from the public to enrich their objects, documents and evidence for the next exhibition.
> 
> At the exhibition in Thai Nguyen, the organizers added photos of historic maps of the West, proving Vietnam’s sovereignty over Hoang Sa and Truong Sa. These are the photos of the original maps, so the quality is very good, Ngoc said. According to Ngoc, these photos were taken by Dr. Tran Duc Anh Son in France. Among them is a map by Taberd in 1838.
> 
> Ngoc said the amount of evidence, both historical and legal, of Vietnam’s sovereignty over Hoang Sa and Truong Sa, is huge. In terms of ancient maps alone, there are several hundred old maps of the West but the council only chose several dozen of the maps for exhibitions. There are also many valuable “chau ban”, particularly those of the Nguyen Dynasty (1802-1945).
> 
> Ngoc said sovereignty is national sovereignty, ie sovereignty that is established and enforced by the State in conditions of peace, without dispute, absolutely not sovereignty seized by force, or sovereignty of individuals or factions. Therefore, documents of the state or “chau ban” are the most appreciated in regards to legality.
> 
> He emphasized that the “chau ban”, including the reports of ministries and agencies to the emperor on sending boats to Hoang Sa to map and collect marine resources, are unique documents that only Vietnam has. These documents are highly praised for their legal value over Vietnam’s sovereignty of Hoang Sa and Truong Sa.
> 
> *Di Linh*_


----------



## Soryu

areal said:


> blah blah blah ..........
> 
> see this map on how western maps made a mistake on paracel and how this mistake was fully taken advantage of by viet:
> 
> http://s15.sinaimg.cn/orignal/564cb1f8gddfbe05fee9e


error image link, kid ...

http://image2.sina.com.cn/blog/tmpl/v3/images/error_link.gif


----------



## areal

more, the following english map shows that paracel is not xisha islands

http://s4.sinaimg.cn/mw690/564cb1f8gddfc2c8fd053&690

http://s4.sinaimg.cn/orignal/564cb1f8gddfc2c8fd053



EastSea said:


> *Sovereignty cannot be seized by force
> *
> _VietNamNet Bridge - "Mentioning sovereignty is national sovereignty, i.e., sovereignty established and exercised by the State in terms of peace, without dispute, absolutely not sovereignty seized by force," said Prof. Dr. Nguyen Quang Ngoc, the chair of the Council for Appraisal of Artifacts, Historical and Legal Evidence for Vietnam’s Sovereignty over the Paracel and Spratly Islands.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The World Atlas (Bruxelles - 1827) by the eminent geographer Philippe Vandermaelen (1795-1869), member of the Paris Geographical Society, includes a map showing that the Paracel Islands belong to Vietnam.
> Prof. Dr. of History Nguyen Quang Ngoc was one of the first members of the Council for Appraisal of Artifacts, Historical and Legal Evidence for Vietnam’s Sovereignty over the Hoang Sa (Paracel) and Truong Sa (Spratly) Islands.
> 
> He has long been completing the tasks of assessment, decoding artifacts, compiling historical and legal evidence and arranging them to serve as basis for exhibitions on the Hoang Sa - Truong Sa islands held by the Ministry of Information and Communications.
> 
> Ngoc said there is much legal evidence that affirms Vietnam's sovereignty over the two archipelagos of Hoang Sa - Truong Sa, including important and vivid evidence contributed by ordinary people.
> 
> Ngoc said the first exhibition of this type was organized by Da Nang City named "Hoang Sa - Truong Sa Documents," mainly the documents about Hoang Sa. The documents are part of ta research project by Dr. Tran Duc Anh Son and some overseas Vietnamese. They include a number of Western maps and Western atlases about China.
> 
> When the External Information Department of the Ministry of Information and Communication organized the national exhibition on Hoang Sa - Truong Sa, Mr. Ngoc was invited as the chair of the document evaluation council, which consisted of many experts from the Government Boundary Committee, the Ministry of Science and Technology, the Center for Marine and Maritime Research, the Mapping Bureau, and others.
> 
> The Council decided to choose historic Western maps collected by Dr. Tran Duc Anh Son, the Western Atlas about China that had recently been collected in the US, and some old maps and documents of Vietnam, particularly documents called “Chau Ban” (administrative documents of the royal court) as the exhibits in the national exhibition on Vietnam’s sovereignty over Hoang Sa in the central province of Ha Tinh. The exhibition was a big success.
> 
> After each exhibition, the organizers received opinions and materials from the public to enrich their objects, documents and evidence for the next exhibition.
> 
> At the exhibition in Thai Nguyen, the organizers added photos of historic maps of the West, proving Vietnam’s sovereignty over Hoang Sa and Truong Sa. These are the photos of the original maps, so the quality is very good, Ngoc said. According to Ngoc, these photos were taken by Dr. Tran Duc Anh Son in France. Among them is a map by Taberd in 1838.
> 
> Ngoc said the amount of evidence, both historical and legal, of Vietnam’s sovereignty over Hoang Sa and Truong Sa, is huge. In terms of ancient maps alone, there are several hundred old maps of the West but the council only chose several dozen of the maps for exhibitions. There are also many valuable “chau ban”, particularly those of the Nguyen Dynasty (1802-1945).
> 
> Ngoc said sovereignty is national sovereignty, ie sovereignty that is established and enforced by the State in conditions of peace, without dispute, absolutely not sovereignty seized by force, or sovereignty of individuals or factions. Therefore, documents of the state or “chau ban” are the most appreciated in regards to legality.
> 
> He emphasized that the “chau ban”, including the reports of ministries and agencies to the emperor on sending boats to Hoang Sa to map and collect marine resources, are unique documents that only Vietnam has. These documents are highly praised for their legal value over Vietnam’s sovereignty of Hoang Sa and Truong Sa.
> 
> *Di Linh*_





Soryu said:


> error image link, kid ...
> 
> http://image2.sina.com.cn/blog/tmpl/v3/images/error_link.gif


----------



## Soryu

BuddhaPalm said:


> Of course the map says Paracels and Spratlys belongs to China. That is why it is not labeled as Vietnam territory but labeled as South China Sea. Viet liars will be slaughtered again like we slaughtered your villages in 1979. Monkeys can never escape their fate.


Show me, kid, don't keep your useless talk ... 
Follow your idiot logic, so India Ocean should belong to India ... 

I feel much impressive more with Nanking party, when China army run like pathetic joke when they're must face with Japanese ...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## areal

more, the following english map shows that paracel is not xisha islands
https://defence.pk/data/attachments/27/27631-7745902e9863e04db0b717cb4335ff7d.jpg



areal said:


> more, the following english map shows that paracel is not xisha islands


----------



## DT1010

areal said:


> more, the following english map shows that paracel is not xisha islands
> https://defence.pk/data/attachments/27/27631-7745902e9863e04db0b717cb4335ff7d.jpg


are you an ant?


----------



## Soryu

areal said:


> more, the following english map shows that paracel is not xisha islands
> https://defence.pk/data/attachments/27/27631-7745902e9863e04db0b717cb4335ff7d.jpg


LOL, so big map for ant to see ... 
This kid is so funny ...


----------



## Fukuoka

> Full video of Vietnam harassing Chinese ships in South China Sea


Vietnam even deploys underwater objects like tree trunks and fishing net to sabotage Chinese ships.


----------



## Soryu

BuddhaPalm said:


> I already showed you they are not labeled Vietnam islands but South China Sea islands. You cannot prove they are Vietnam islands because you are a liar. All Viets are liars.


Who give the name SCS then !?
And Who recognized those Islands belong to China, kid !? 

If you can answer this fact, so get lost ... 



Fukuoka said:


> Vietnam even deploys underwater objects like tree trunks and fishing net to sabotage Chinese ships.


poor propaganda ... what's prove they're deployed from Vietnamese side !? 

After month of aggressive, finally, Chinese can produce this video like proof that they're victim of Vietnamese harassment

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## areal

see this blog for the maps, it is chinese, but the map is still in english in 1799
[转载]以西方古地图反击越南拥有西沙、南沙主权谬论02_liucheng1972_新浪博客
i cannot handle img well even the original img is big enough.



Soryu said:


> LOL, so big map for ant to see ...
> This kid is so funny ...


----------



## areal

next time, china army got invitation, viet should be spilt into three parts, the north returns china, the middle given to laos, the south becomes independent champa state.
as viets, they can go anywhere but should not stay in the places that never legally belonged to them.


Rechoice said:


> don't cry again like this in 1979, kid.



just say something about your respective PM phan, in what situation, he sent the diplomatic letter to make the recognition?
if we have solid official document over there, you still pretend not to see it, then we lose all basis over this serious discussion.

so this world cannot trust or believe in such a country, a people, viet nam, who used to breaking its own word and think this world is as stupid as they are.



Soryu said:


> Who give the name SCS then !?
> And Who recognized those Islands belong to China, kid !?
> 
> If you can answer this fact, so get lost ...
> 
> 
> poor propaganda ... what's prove they're deployed from Vietnamese side !?
> 
> After month of aggressive, finally, Chinese can produce this video like proof that they're victim of Vietnamese harassment


----------



## xesy

areal said:


> next time, china army got invitation, viet should be spilt into three parts, the north returns china, the middle given to laos, the south becomes independent champa state.
> as viets, they can go anywhere but should not stay in the places that never legally belonged to them.
> 
> 
> just say something about your respective PM phan, in what situation, he sent the diplomatic letter to make the recognition?
> if we have solid official document over there, you still pretend not to see it, then we lose all basis over this serious discussion.
> 
> so this world cannot trust or believe in such a country, a people, viet nam, who used to breaking its own word and think this world is as stupid as they are.


You expect us to believe in such BS? Unless Laos and Cambodia ally with China, and send troops to fight Vietnam with China, then maybe , maybe China will leave them alone. Or the PLA will take the chance to "liberate" the two countries, and voila, 1 new province for China.

And for the PM Dong letter, let's the lawyers deal with it. The court will decide its validity, not you or me.


----------



## xesy

areal said:


> it is not true, japanese just made a unsuccessful attempt to rule china.
> the truth and fact is china ruled viet nam. i am sorry that we showed too much mercy as we ruled your guys.


What about the story of 50 Japanese soldiers to watch 2000 Chinese, and no one dared to fight back?

Ancient Chinese did not kill off ancient Vietnamese because then there would be no slave and labor. Furthermore it would spark more rebels.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

areal said:


> see this blog for the maps, it is chinese, but the map is still in english in 1799
> [转载]以西方古地图反击越南拥有西沙、南沙主权谬论02_liucheng1972_新浪博客
> i cannot handle img well even the original img is big enough.


sorry, buddy, this map can't prove Paracel Islands belong to China ...

It's simply a old map was draw not accurate in that time, many location were not exact like modern map. 

And beside, your fellow Chinese always denied many other Western maps which's prove Paracel belong to Vietnam. Don't you see it's contradictions between your debate !? 

China claim is all SCS, and it's baseless 9-dash-lines is joke ...


----------



## Eliter

“Comrade Prime Minister,
　　We have the honour to bring to your knowledge that the Government of the DRVN recognizes and supports the declaration dated 4th September, 1958 of the Government of the PRC fixing the width of the Chinese territorial waters. The Government of the DRVN respects this decision and will give instructions to its State bodies to respect the 12-mile width of the territorial waters of China in all their relations in the maritime field with the PRC. I address to you, comrade Prime Minister, the assurance of my distinguished consideration”.


----------



## EastSea

Eliter said:


> “Comrade Prime Minister,
> We have the honour to bring to your knowledge that the Government of the DRVN recognizes and supports the declaration dated 4th September, 1958 of the Government of the PRC fixing the width of the Chinese territorial waters. The Government of the DRVN respects this decision and will give instructions to its State bodies to respect the 12-mile width of the territorial waters of China in all their relations in the maritime field with the PRC. I address to you, comrade Prime Minister, the assurance of my distinguished consideration”.



China and North Vietnam signed in to Geneva Accords 1954. Both agreed that Islands belong to South Vietnam
North Vietnam didn't have right over Islands of South Vietnam.






So, letter didn't mentioned about Islands of South Vietnam.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## xesy

areal said:


> no, china cannot win every combats during the war in the history. it is not a shame if every soldiers have tried their best.
> 
> if what you imaged is really so, then viet namese were the most lucky slaves ever since.
> after viet nam got independence, we can see nothing but a series of civil wars between north and south, and one regicide after another. every times, china army had to make help on rebuilding the order after got invitation from one side of your viet guys.


Slavery is no good. Even if ancient Vietnamese were lucky, they would be discarded, replaced if their Chinese masters felt like it.

About the Trinh-Nguyen war, it only lasted less than 50 years in the 17th century. Most of other wars were against Chinese dynasties.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

Eliter said:


> “Comrade Prime Minister,
> We have the honour to bring to your knowledge that the Government of the DRVN recognizes and supports the declaration dated 4th September, 1958 of the Government of the PRC fixing the width of the Chinese territorial waters. The Government of the DRVN respects this decision and will give instructions to its State bodies to respect the 12-mile width of the territorial waters of China in all their relations in the maritime field with the PRC. I address to you, comrade Prime Minister, the assurance of my distinguished consideration”.



*Yeah, Buddy, we respect your 12nm territorial waters which's discusses inside UN at 1958, and only 12nm, no more, nothing about your cow tongue shape 9-dash-lines ... *

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## areal

yes, it is not so accurate for a map in 18 century, but much more accurate than your forged old maps.
this map also not intentionally prove xishan belonged to china, but firmly proved that paracel is different from xisha, and xishan never belonged to vietnam as you viet gov. and people claimed paracel belongs to you, yes, your paracel is yours, we admit, but it has nothing with xishan islands.



Soryu said:


> sorry, buddy, this map can't prove Paracel Islands belong to China ...
> 
> It's simply a old map was draw not accurate in that time, many location were not exact like modern map.
> 
> And beside, your fellow Chinese always denied many other Western maps which's prove Paracel belong to Vietnam. Don't you see it's contradictions between your debate !?
> 
> China claim is all SCS, and it's baseless 9-dash-lines is joke ...



there is no place in geneva accord to show islands belonged to south vietnam. stop lying and counterfeiting international documents.
the geneva accord was only for dividing viet nam into two parts since your south and north peoples never can be live together peacefully from a very old times.


EastSea said:


> China and North Vietnam signed in to Geneva Accords 1954. Both agreed that Islands belong to South Vietnam
> North Vietnam didn't have right over Islands of South Vietnam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, letter didn't mentioned about Islands of South Vietnam.


----------



## xesy

areal said:


> yes, it is not so accurate for a map in 18 century, but much more accurate than your forged old maps.
> this map also not intentionally prove xishan belonged to china, but firmly proved that paracel is different from xisha, and xishan never belonged to vietnam as you viet gov. and people claimed paracel belongs to you, yes, your paracel is yours, we admit, but it has nothing with xishan islands.
> 
> 
> 
> there is no place in geneva accord to show islands belonged to south vietnam. stop lying and counterfeiting international documents.
> the geneva accord was only for dividing viet nam into two parts since your south and north peoples never can be live together peacefully from a very old times.


The map is either forged or old, can't be either at the same time.
And the Geneva accord was dividing Vietnam for the US and CCCP to influence. Saying the north and south Vietnamese did not get along is like saying Beijing people do not get along with Hongkong people. And there was a planned election the year after Geneva, but the south Vietnam temporary govt refused to participate, so war broke out.


----------



## Soryu

areal said:


> yes, it is not so accurate for a map in 18 century, but much more accurate than your forged old maps.
> this map also not intentionally prove xishan belonged to china, but firmly proved that paracel is different from xisha, and xishan never belonged to vietnam as you viet gov. and people claimed paracel belongs to you, yes, your paracel is yours, we admit, but it has nothing with xishan islands.
> 
> there is no place in geneva accord to show islands belonged to south vietnam. stop lying and counterfeiting international documents.
> the geneva accord was only for dividing viet nam into two parts since your south and north peoples never can be live together peacefully from a very old times.


Yes, kid, we admit Xisha and Nansha and more of any bullshjt belong to China. 

And sure, Paracel and Spratly belong to Vietnam . Their location in modern map :







And where're Xisha and Nansha Islands on map that you bring up !? 

P/S: Do you know why there's only you here to debate idiot ideal about that map, but not senior or elite Chinese member !?

Simply, they know that shjt can't fool no one but some idiots ....

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## areal

hi, poor viet guy, you never go abroad, right? i suppose you get a too low salary to go outside your snake country due to year by year continuous record inflation in viet nam, i completely understand that.
so you never know that google maps will show different versions for different countries.
because google inc. need viet nam market, so they label the names in your favorite, that's all.



Soryu said:


> Yes, kid, we admit Xisha and Nansha and more of any bullshjt belong to China.
> 
> And sure, Paracel and Spratly belong to Vietnam . Their location in modern map :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And where're Xisha and Nansha Islands on map that you bring up !?
> 
> P/S: Do you know why there's only you here to debate idiot ideal about that map, but not senior or elite Chinese member !?
> 
> Simply, they know that shjt can't fool no one but some idiots ....


----------



## areal

so funny that a guy from a liar-making country can speak out a word 'forge'.
be more careful to see the notations of that map, not only ONE map, but also a group of western maps were so.

--------------
how vietnam gov. and its employed researchers provide the ancient evidence, books and maps, to show xisha and nansha related to vietnam?
simply, search all documents that they can find, copy every words like hoang sa, truong sa, and paracel, without any textual research with the least scientific proof, always suppose that hoang sa=xisha, paracel=xisha, truong sa=nansha, no matter in all maps even from their faked versions, all these 'hoang sa, truong sa' were so out-of-proportion close to the coast of viet nam, 
if history study can be so easy so cheap, then viet nam must lead the study over this area.




xesy said:


> The map is either forged or old, can't be either at the same time.
> And the Geneva accord was dividing Vietnam for the US and CCCP to influence. Saying the north and south Vietnamese did not get along is like saying Beijing people do not get along with Hongkong people. And there was a planned election the year after Geneva, but the south Vietnam temporary govt refused to participate, so war broke out.


----------



## Soryu

areal said:


> hi, poor viet guy, you never go abroad, right? i suppose you get a too low salary to go outside your snake country due to year by year continuous record inflation in viet nam, i completely understand that.
> so you never know that google maps will show different versions for different countries.
> because google inc. need viet nam market, so they label the names in your favorite, that's all.


sure, sure, keep with it, google map ... you're so smart ...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Eliter

World Atlas printed in May 1972 by the Burean of Survey and Cartography under the Office of the Premier of Viet Nam


----------



## xesy

areal said:


> so funny that a guy from a liar-making country can speak out a word 'forge'.
> be more careful to see the notations of that map, not only ONE map, but also a group of western maps were so.
> 
> --------------
> how vietnam gov. and its employed researchers provide the ancient evidence, books and maps, to show xisha and nansha related to vietnam?
> simply, search all documents that they can find, copy every words like hoang sa, truong sa, and paracel, without any textual research with the least scientific proof, always suppose that hoang sa=xisha, paracel=xisha, truong sa=nansha, no matter in all maps even from their faked versions, all these 'hoang sa, truong sa' were so out-of-proportion close to the coast of viet nam,
> if history study can be so easy so cheap, then viet nam must lead the study over this area.


Admit it, before the Westerners came Asia was pretty much blind with no accurate map drawing system or equation. You may say China had accurate maps but those maps must be highly classified and used in military. Pretty sure China would not share that technology with anyone. And even in your maps there were no Paracels or Spartly.

You say that the islands were out of proportion, but look at the world map and point out for me many islands near the mainland of Vietnam. There is none, right? Then did ancient Vietnamese imagine those islands and put it in the map, and for what? Don't say our maps are faked yet, unless you are a historian and have performed tested on our maps.



Eliter said:


> World Atlas printed in May 1972 by the Burean of Survey and Cartography under the Office of the Premier of Viet Nam


For this to be valid, you have to:
1. Present the physical evidence, i.e the actual book, and there should be proof that's there are more than 1.
2. Prove that the book was published and distributed in North Vietnam in 1972 or later.
3. Documents from Vietnam govt that ordered the change in names of the islands.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Eliter

南沙群岛,Nansha Qundao,Nansha Islands,Spratly Islands
南薰礁,Nanxun Jiao, Gaven Reef
东门礁,Dongmen Jiao, Hugh Reef or Hughes Reef
赤瓜礁,Chigua Jiao, Johnson Reef
华阳礁,Huayang Jiao, Cuarteron Reef


----------



## xesy

Eliter said:


> 南沙群岛,Nansha Qundao,Nansha Islands,Spratly Islands
> 南薰礁,Nanxun Jiao, Gaven Reef
> 东门礁,Dongmen Jiao, Hugh Reef or Hughes Reef
> 赤瓜礁,Chigua Jiao, Johnson Reef
> 华阳礁,Huayang Jiao, Cuarteron Reef


Are those the 5 islands China is building bases on?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

xesy said:


> Are those the 5 islands China is building bases on?


It's not Islands, bro, It's mere rock at before China build their post ...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

areal said:


> there is no place in geneva accord to show islands belonged to south vietnam. stop lying and counterfeiting international documents.
> the geneva accord was only for dividing viet nam into two parts since your south and north peoples never can be live together peacefully from a very old times.



China PRC and North Vietnam VDR signed, don't deny the truth, kid. Territory of South Vietnam is from 17 parrarrel to southerner maniland and Islands.

With declaration 1958. China swallowed your signature. 

Stone Mark from time of Annam Empire.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## EastSea

Eliter said:


> World Atlas printed in May 1972 by the Burean of Survey and Cartography under the Office of the Premier of Viet Nam







In this map this is a classified *PRC government map from 1969* and that it lists the "Senkaku islands" as Japanese territory.

There is no word in Chinese name.


*Partial image of map showing Senkaku Islands in World Atlaspublished in China in 1960*

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Eliter

OK
*Senkaku Islands belong to Japan
Paracel Islands and Spratly Islands belong to China*


----------



## areal

dear counterfeiting master from viet nam: 
please refer to the original documents of geneva accord:
Geneva Accords
if find 'island' in this doc, you will find it always has an adjective, 'coastal'.
i guess you know more or less english, right?

so,

STOP lying that geneva accord offered SCS islands to south viet nam.

to say the least, even if it is true on the faked geneva accord by you, it is south viet, not the viet you are living in.



EastSea said:


> China PRC and North Vietnam VDR signed, don't deny the truth, kid. Territory of South Vietnam is from 17 parrarrel to southerner maniland and Islands.
> 
> With declaration 1958. China swallowed your signature.
> 
> Stone Mark from time of Annam Empire.


----------



## Soryu

Eliter said:


> OK
> *Senkaku Islands belong to Japan
> Paracel Islands and Spratly Islands belong to Vietnam*


_*OK!*_

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

areal said:


> dear counterfeiting master from viet nam:
> please refer to the original documents of geneva accord:
> Geneva Accords
> if find 'island' in this doc, you will find it always has an adjective, 'coastal'.
> i guess you know more or less english, right?
> 
> so,
> 
> STOP lying that geneva accord offered SCS islands to south viet nam.
> 
> to say the least, even if it is true on the faked geneva accord by you, it is south viet, not the viet you are living in.



Why China PRC shoot up a mouth when France Colonial Army stationed in Islands until 1956 ?

You can not deny that China agreed with France about that Islands belong to South Vietnam after 1954.



Eliter said:


> OK
> *Senkaku Islands belong to Japan
> Paracel Islands and Spratly Islands belong to China*



China has nothing. China can stop lying.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

Eliter said:


> OK
> *Senkaku Islands belong to Japan
> Paracel Islands and Spratly Islands belong to China*



Until, 1988, no Chinese ever put a foot onto any reef of Spratly.
At this moment, Chinese doesn't have any island, only some submersible rocks not suitable to everyday living.

It strengthen the fact that, China never has the territory of Spratlys.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## areal

the international file, black and white, viet cannot perform their best faking tech over it, so they turn to the cheap talk.

in 1956, KMT gov. of china who retreated from mainland of china to taiwan, cannot support the military stationary over all SCS islands any more, so that your cheap Philippine and south viet can dare to declare that islands were found in nansha.



EastSea said:


> Why China PRC shoot up a mouth when France Colonial Army stationed in Islands until 1956 ?
> 
> You can not deny that China agreed with France about that Islands belong to South Vietnam after 1954.
> 
> 
> 
> China has nothing. China can stop lying.



china has.
the largest island of nansha, taiping island, is still under control of ROC army/police now
but it is also ROC in taiwan who let you viet and phil have a good chance.
think about it, if every reefs always have china army stationed since 1946, there will never be any chance of your cheap provocation.
both viet and phil made use of the weakness caused by the china civil war to steal or rob china's islands, that's the whole truth.



BoQ77 said:


> Until, 1988, no Chinese ever put a foot onto any reef of Spratly.
> At this moment, Chinese doesn't have any island, only some submersible rocks not suitable to everyday living.
> 
> It strengthen the fact that, China never has the territory of Spratlys.


----------



## Eliter

The geography textbook for ninth grade students published by Vietnam's Educational Press in 1974 recognized the Xisha Islands and Nansha Islands as Chinese territory in the lesson entitled "The People's Republic of China".It reads:"The chain of islands from the Nansha and Xisha Islands to Hainan Island,Taiwan Island,the Penghu Island and the Zhoushan Islands are shaped like a bow and constitute a Great Wall defending the China mainland."

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cirr

Chinese law enforcement ships under construction：






More to come，a lot more。

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## CHiahah

SXNJ said:


> So the U.S. is telling China it can take all the fish and oil it can grab &#8211; but don&#8217;t try to stop any ships along the way.
> 
> ===================================
> What we need is just oil and fish


we need not just these


----------



## Soryu

Eliter said:


> The geography textbook for ninth grade students published by Vietnam's Educational Press in 1974 recognized the Xisha Islands and Nansha Islands as Chinese territory in the lesson entitled "The People's Republic of China".It reads:"The chain of islands from the Nansha and Xisha Islands to Hainan Island,Taiwan Island,the Penghu Island and the Zhoushan Islands are shaped like a bow and constitute a Great Wall defending the China mainland."


So what !?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Malaya

*Philippines plays catch-up in developing disputed Isle*







Simone Orendain
June 17, 2014 10:12 AM

MANILA — The Philippines' top diplomat this week called for a moratorium on building activities by China that he says “escalate tension” on hotly-contested features in the South China Sea. At the same time, Philippine officials and concerned citizens are trying to keep the country’s only civilian-inhabited island in the disputed Spratly Islands habitable for its tiny population.

About 150 people chanted, “Get out China!” at a recent rally in Manila’s business district protesting China’s reclamation activity at several reefs in the Spratly Islands.

Carlos Celdran, a Manila artist and historian who was among them, says the ongoing dispute between China and the Philippines is all about tapping the resources in the South China Sea. Brunei, Malaysia, Vietnam and Taiwan also have claims in the sea, which has abundant fishing, potentially huge hydrocarbon reserves and is a heavily travelled trade route.

Celdran says China doing reclamation work, drilling in contested waters and taking other actions to assert its claims is “so old-fashioned.”

But he also says Filipinos should “get involved [in] the issue.”

“We completely dropped the ball when it came to developing Pagasa shoal and the Kalayaan Islands," Celdran said. " It’s completely unsustainable. It’s an empty island with no water, no infrastructure, no electricity. So the threat of people leaving that island and leaving it empty for [China] to come in is really high.”






Celdran refers to the Spratlys by their local name, the Kalayaan Group of Islands. *The Philippines claims nine islands, reefs and shoals in the Spratlys, which has hundreds of formations. Among them, the 37-hectare Pagasa Island, internationally known as Thitu, has up to 150 mostly civilian residents at any given time.*
*A few months ago, Celdran and a small group of friends created a fledgling project to support Thitu. Their goal is to bolster its infrastructure and education system, which Celdran says is “totally doable.” They plan to send water filtration and solar power systems. So far, they have delivered elementary schoolbooks to the 30 children attending the one-room school.*

Kalayaan Mayor Eugenio Bito-onon had the school built two years ago. He says before that children attended school in Palawan, an island province some 500 kilometers to the east.

Bito-onon says Thitu municipality’s residents are mostly local government workers and fisherfolk. He says it is at the lowest end of the country’s socio-economic structure. Its budget for social services and infrastructure is $223,000.00, a slight increase over last year. 

Bito-onon says this is barely enough to offer basic services, such as healthcare. There is no doctor on the island, whose airport runway is unusable.

*“But if we have facilities, relevant facilities like a good airport, a civilianized airport and there are regular flights and then we have a nice harbor and good sea craft, everything will just go normal. No problem,”* Bito-onon said.






*On Monday China’s Foreign Ministry Spokeswoman Hua Chunying said the Philippines’ call for stopping construction activities in the South China Sea islands was “totally unreasonable.” * She said China, which says it has “indisputable sovereignty” over about 90 percent of the South China Sea, had a right to do what it wanted on its claimed territory. Hua says the Philippines has illegally occupied some of the disputed islands and is carrying out construction work. 

But Ian Storey, a senior fellow at Singapore’s Institute of Southeast Asian Studies says the Philippines is simply “playing catch-up” to its neighbors. Some of them have well-developed infrastructure on their claimed islands.

“It’s one thing to repair a runway or to add… what the Philippines is doing, maybe adding a school, that kind of thing. It’s quite another to do reclamation work,” Storey said.

Storey points out under a non-binding agreement between the 10-member Association of Southeast Asian Nations and China there is nothing that prohibits upgrading of existing features. However, he says reclamation stretches the limits and “violates the spirit” of the declaration.

Officials suspect China’s reclamation work is laying the groundwork for military infrastructure. 

Another analyst, Sam Bateman with the S. Rajaratnam School of International Studies in Singapore, says how the reclamation work will be used to justify maritime claims in the future could stir tensions further. 

He says the Philippines non-military goals at Thitu help strengthen its claims.


----------



## Malaya

*China demands Philippines' withdrawal from Spratly*
*Manila Bulletin*
June 18,2014

*China has demanded that the Philippines withdraw all its facilities and personnel in Spratly islands (Nansha islands) in response to the latter's call for a moratorium on all land formation activities in the West Philippine Sea (South China Sea).*

In a statement, Chinese Foreign Minister Hua Chunying said that “Since the 1970s, the Philippines has illegally and forcefully occupied parts of China’s Nansha Islands including the Zhongye Island, in violation of the UN Charter and principles of international law."

China has demanded that the Philippines withdraw all its facilities and personnel in Spratly islands (Nansha islands) in response to the latter's call for a moratorium on all land formation activities in the West Philippine Sea (South China Sea). 

*“We demand the Philippines to withdraw all its facilities and personnel on islands illegally seized from China,”* she added.

Hua insisted that China has indisputable sovereignty over the Spratlys islands and its neighboring waters. Hua also accused the Philippines of making provocative actions and irresponsible remarks on “China’s legitimate actions.”

Hua cited that the Philippines earlier announced that it would invest large sums of money to upgrade the airstrips and naval facilities on the Zhongye island (Pagasa island).

She added that in January, the Philippines also announced its plans to build a world-class airport on the so-called Kalayaan group of islands.

“That is unjustifiable. We call on the Philippine side to correct its erroneous actions, strictly follow the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea (DOC), and stop provocations that would further aggravate and complicate the situation,” Hua said.

Earlier, the Philippine aerial patrols spotted China’s reclamation works on Mabini Reef. (Mary Rose A. Hogaza)


----------



## Rechoice

Eliter said:


> The geography textbook for ninth grade students published by Vietnam's Educational Press in 1974 recognized the Xisha Islands and Nansha Islands as Chinese territory in the lesson entitled "The People's Republic of China".It reads:"The chain of islands from the Nansha and Xisha Islands to Hainan Island,Taiwan Island,the Penghu Island and the Zhoushan Islands are shaped like a bow and constitute a Great Wall defending the China mainland."



China and North Vietnam signed in to Geneva Accords, Islands belong to South Vietnam, North Vietnam didn't have right about Islands of South Vietnam.

The letter didn't mentioned about Island, it said about 12 miles only.







this is a classified PRC government map from 1969 and that it lists the "Senkaku islands" as Japanese territory.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Malaya

*US-made gunboats boost PH sea patrol*
Agence France-Presse
Wednesday, June 18th, 2014





*
MARITIME MUSCLE Members of the Philippine Maritime Police special boat unit maneuver a US-made gunboat as they simulate the apprehension of poachers during a training exercise off Honda Bay in Puerto Princesa City in this photo taken on June 6. The gunboat packs a top speed of more than 83 kilometers per hour (45 knots) and has the capability to operate at night and is equipped with a radar. It is manned by police officers who underwent special training from US Navy Seals. AFP*

HONDA BAY, Palawan—After a short, intense chase, two Philippine Maritime Police gunboats catch up with an illegal fishing vessel and circle it like menacing sharks, their armed commandos poised to rappel onboard.

“Their first reaction is to flee, but they stop once they realize they cannot outrun us,” the boat captain, John Rey Zumarraga, said during a training exercise in Honda Bay off the western island of Palawan.

*With top speeds of 83 kilometers an hour (45 knots), modern radar systems and elite Marine officers, the 10-meter Special Boat Unit vessels are bad news for illegal fishermen.*

Set up four years ago with funding from the US government, which also donated the gunboats and provided Navy Seal training, the unit’s mission is to patrol the nearly 2,000-km coast of the strategically located province.

Combating human trafficking is one part of its mission, but most of its time and resources are spent on trying to stop poaching of rare fish and other endangered wildlife in and around Palawan, which lies astride the South China Sea.

“Without those (gunboats) the poachers would be laughing at us,” said the unit’s chief administrative officer, Insp. Bryan Espinosa.

*Achilles heel*

But the unit has an Achilles heel or two: With just six boats and a tiny fuel budget, it cannot come close to adequately patroling the waters around Palawan and into the West Philippine Sea.

“The area is too vast to be patroled,” Espinosa conceded.

Nevertheless, the boat unit has been involved in the arrests of hundreds of fishermen, many of them foreigners, and busts involving Chinese and Vietnamese crews have sent diplomatic shockwaves across the South China Sea.

The unit last month arrested nine Chinese fishermen in the hotly contested West Philippine Sea waters off Palawan and seized their boat, which police said contained hundreds of endangered hawksbill sea turtles, many of them dead.

Most of the unit’s work is restricted to just off the coast of Palawan, which is indisputably Philippine territory.

However, the Chinese bust occurred more than 100 km off Palawan in a part of the South China Sea that the Philippines insists it has sovereign rights over but is also claimed by China, Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan.

*Indisputably PH’s*

The arrests fueled a decades-long but increasingly bitter row between the Philippines and China over their competing claims to parts of the sea, and the Chinese government demanded the fishermen be immediately released.

China insists it has sovereign rights to nearly all of the South China Sea, including waters more than 1,000 km from its most southern major landmass and just 40 or 50 km from Palawan.

The Philippines has held its ground in the case, maintaining the fishermen must be brought to justice for harvesting a rare and protected species, a crime that carries a maximum penalty of 20 years in jail.

The Chinese crew have appeared in court at Puerto Princesa City for initial proceedings in what is expected to be a lengthy judicial process. They have pleaded not guilty.

They are in jail with dozens of Vietnamese arrested near Palawan’s most southern tip in waters that indisputably belong to the Philippines.

*Plea bargain*

Twelve of those fishermen offered last week to switch to guilty pleas and pay fines in exchange for their immediate release. The chief Palawan state prosecutor, Alen Rodriguez, said plea bargains were common.

“Bringing about convictions is quite easy, especially as they often resort to plea bargains,” Rodriguez told Agence France-Presse (AFP).

In 2011, the unit was also involved in a joint operation with the military that led to the arrest of 122 Vietnamese, the biggest illegal fishing bust in recent memory. They served jail terms of about six months, then were sent home.

Rodriguez said most foreigners charged with illegal fishing served sentences ranging from six months to four years.

*Scarce fish*

The Chinese detained last week face longer prison terms because their case involves an endangered species, rather than just illegal fishing.

Fishermen from China, Taiwan, Malaysia, Indonesia, the Philippines and Vietnam have for centuries shared the South China Sea’s riches, mostly peacefully.

But in recent decades, competition for increasingly scarce fish stocks has heightened as populations in Asian nations have boomed, forcing fishermen to travel further from home and closer to foreign coasts for their hauls.

“They know fully well that they are fishing beyond their territorial waters. Their vessels are equipped with GPS (global positioning system),” said the boat unit’s spokesman, Insp. Raymond Abella.

*Not enough*

The unit is expanding, with a new station being built near Malaysia and another one planned for the sea border with Indonesia.

However, Abella conceded this still would not be nearly enough to counter the growing problem of foreign fishing incursions.

“Palawan has a lot of resources that are no longer available where they come from, and it is relatively easy to get them. They know that policing here is not as strict, that’s why they continue to come here,” he said.

There are no police gunboats to patrol the rest of the country’s coastline, the fourth longest in the world.

The safeguarding of marine resources along the rest of the Philippines’ coastline is left to the poorly equipped Navy and Coast Guard, which is generally preoccupied with other duties.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Malaya

*Q and A: 'Brave, patriotic' Vietnam challenges China*
'We don't fear anything,' the Vietnamese ambassador tells Rappler as he slams China's 'dream' to claim the entire South China Sea






MANILA, Philippines – “We are enraged. We are very angry.”

With words as firm as these, the Vietnamese ambassador denounced China's “dream” of a 9-dash line, the demarcation mark that China uses to claim virtually the entire South China Sea.

“We don't fear anything,” Vietnamese Ambassador to the Philippines Truong Trieu Duong told Rappler.

Vietnam, after all, has a long tradition of ejecting its conquerors – including China, in 938 AD – throughout its 2,000-year history.

Duong sat down for a wide-ranging interview on May 29, which covered Vietnam's thoughts on China as well as the United States, their country's next possible moves, and its views on the Philippines in the South China Sea dispute.

The following stories on Rappler covered two main points from the interview:


Vietnam to Philippines: United, we will win


Philippines, Vietnam can share disputed sea – envoy
Below, Rappler is publishing other parts of the interview about the country Duong described as “brave and patriotic.”

*RAPPLER: Your country has a long history of fighting and defeating colonizers. And recently we see the Vietnamese engaging in some riots related to the sea dispute. Where do these sentiments come from?*

DUONG: I think that actually, we are enraged. We are very angry about what China has done in the South China Sea, and sometimes this sentiment has been demonstrated, but some people have actually overreacted, and we really, in the government, are opposed to that. We don't agree. We don't agree. And that's why we have tried to help all those enterprises and the business community and those who have been affected by those riots. And we are trying, we bring the violators to court, and there are several violators, and those who some kind of incite people. And as I told you, we don't agree with that. And that's why we are trying to help to bring law back to order, and now most of the factories that have been ransacked and actually they have come back to business and production as usual already. So things are calming down.

*RAPPLER: Mr Ambassador, given your long history, the temperament of your people, the attitudes in Vietnam, and the culture – the Vietnamese spirit, if we can call it that – why are there very, very strong feelings about the South China Sea or East Sea dispute?*

DUONG: Actually, we have a tradition of defending our land, our motherland. It's been such a long history; otherwise, we would not survive until now. We always are ready to stand up against any kind of invasion and aggression, either on land or even in the sea. And these are our legacy, our ancestors left for us, and we want to defend it. It's our sentiment. It's a very, very sentimental feeling that we always have – to keep it. The South China Sea, the Paracels, as well as the Spratly Islands belong to us, for thousands of years already. So we cannot let others come and conquer.

*RAPPLER: In a few adjectives how would you describe the Vietnamese people?*

DUONG: We are a brave and patriotic people.

*RAPPLER: That's how you were brought up.*

DUONG: Exactly.


*RAPPLER: How much does Vietnam need the United States in the South China Sea issue?*

DUONG: Well, actually, we always want the US to play an important role here.... There must be somebody who can stand strongly against, well, the big guy over there.... So there's no peaceful rise about China. China is always saying that it just has a kind of a peaceful rise of China right now, but indeed, it's not peaceful at all. And there must be somebody. Or Vietnam, we've been living with the Chinese for thousands of years, so we know how to drive them back and how to survive. But still, in this world, sometimes it's not very easy. And war should be the last resort that we should use in this present situation.

*RAPPLER: What are you fears right now in relation to this dispute? Your country's fears?*

DUONG: Fears? In fact, we stand ready for anything that can happen. Fear is not the right word that we have right now. We don't fear anything. We do not fear anything. We would be ready to encounter what comes next.

*RAPPLER: Where do you see this dispute going in the near future?*

DUONG: That would be a very, very difficult question to answer. But I do hope that China will feel and see what will be good for them if it does not want to stand alone against the whole world. Because nobody's supporting China right now. You can see that. Everybody's blaming China.... Even the US, the Philippines, and many others. Japan, Korea, Australia, the EU, everybody is just blaming China.

*RAPPLER: What message do you want to send China?*

DUONG: Be reasonable. Be reasonable, and act like a responsible member of the international community.

*RAPPLER: Do you have any other thoughts that we may not have covered?*

DUONG: Well, I think that's enough. Maybe the only thing that I really want to stress right now is that Vietnam and the Philippines, we've got to be united, and stand united. We will win.

*RAPPLER: That pronoun is interesting – “we.”*

DUONG: Yeah, "we" means the Vietnamese people and the Filipino people.

*RAPPLER: So right now your mindset is...*

DUONG: We are on the same side.

Q and A: 'Brave, patriotic' Vietnam challenges China

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## areal

when china gov. made a request, later the request will be surely realized.
wait and see.


Malaya said:


> *China demands Philippines' withdrawal from Spratly*
> *Manila Bulletin*
> June 18,2014
> 
> *China has demanded that the Philippines withdraw all its facilities and personnel in Spratly islands (Nansha islands) in response to the latter's call for a moratorium on all land formation activities in the West Philippine Sea (South China Sea).*
> 
> In a statement, Chinese Foreign Minister Hua Chunying said that “Since the 1970s, the Philippines has illegally and forcefully occupied parts of China’s Nansha Islands including the Zhongye Island, in violation of the UN Charter and principles of international law."
> 
> China has demanded that the Philippines withdraw all its facilities and personnel in Spratly islands (Nansha islands) in response to the latter's call for a moratorium on all land formation activities in the West Philippine Sea (South China Sea).
> 
> *“We demand the Philippines to withdraw all its facilities and personnel on islands illegally seized from China,”* she added.
> 
> Hua insisted that China has indisputable sovereignty over the Spratlys islands and its neighboring waters. Hua also accused the Philippines of making provocative actions and irresponsible remarks on “China’s legitimate actions.”
> 
> Hua cited that the Philippines earlier announced that it would invest large sums of money to upgrade the airstrips and naval facilities on the Zhongye island (Pagasa island).
> 
> She added that in January, the Philippines also announced its plans to build a world-class airport on the so-called Kalayaan group of islands.
> 
> “That is unjustifiable. We call on the Philippine side to correct its erroneous actions, strictly follow the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea (DOC), and stop provocations that would further aggravate and complicate the situation,” Hua said.
> 
> Earlier, the Philippine aerial patrols spotted China’s reclamation works on Mabini Reef. (Mary Rose A. Hogaza)



such kind of maps were not classified actually, our viet namese liars did their work again.
as this map was released, Ryukyu islands altogether diaoyu islands were under administration of american, but not japan.
so it said nothing.


Rechoice said:


> China and North Vietnam signed in to Geneva Accords, Islands belong to South Vietnam, North Vietnam didn't have right about Islands of South Vietnam.
> 
> The letter didn't mentioned about Island, it said about 12 miles only.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this is a classified PRC government map from 1969 and that it lists the "Senkaku islands" as Japanese territory.



when a person nervously and repeatedly says he does not fear, that means he is really frightened. ha


Malaya said:


> *Q and A: 'Brave, patriotic' Vietnam challenges China*
> 'We don't fear anything,' the Vietnamese ambassador tells Rappler as he slams China's 'dream' to claim the entire South China Sea
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MANILA, Philippines – “We are enraged. We are very angry.”
> 
> With words as firm as these, the Vietnamese ambassador denounced China's “dream” of a 9-dash line, the demarcation mark that China uses to claim virtually the entire South China Sea.
> 
> “We don't fear anything,” Vietnamese Ambassador to the Philippines Truong Trieu Duong told Rappler.
> 
> Vietnam, after all, has a long tradition of ejecting its conquerors – including China, in 938 AD – throughout its 2,000-year history.
> 
> Duong sat down for a wide-ranging interview on May 29, which covered Vietnam's thoughts on China as well as the United States, their country's next possible moves, and its views on the Philippines in the South China Sea dispute.
> 
> The following stories on Rappler covered two main points from the interview:
> 
> 
> Vietnam to Philippines: United, we will win
> 
> 
> Philippines, Vietnam can share disputed sea – envoy
> Below, Rappler is publishing other parts of the interview about the country Duong described as “brave and patriotic.”
> 
> *RAPPLER: Your country has a long history of fighting and defeating colonizers. And recently we see the Vietnamese engaging in some riots related to the sea dispute. Where do these sentiments come from?*
> 
> DUONG: I think that actually, we are enraged. We are very angry about what China has done in the South China Sea, and sometimes this sentiment has been demonstrated, but some people have actually overreacted, and we really, in the government, are opposed to that. We don't agree. We don't agree. And that's why we have tried to help all those enterprises and the business community and those who have been affected by those riots. And we are trying, we bring the violators to court, and there are several violators, and those who some kind of incite people. And as I told you, we don't agree with that. And that's why we are trying to help to bring law back to order, and now most of the factories that have been ransacked and actually they have come back to business and production as usual already. So things are calming down.
> 
> *RAPPLER: Mr Ambassador, given your long history, the temperament of your people, the attitudes in Vietnam, and the culture – the Vietnamese spirit, if we can call it that – why are there very, very strong feelings about the South China Sea or East Sea dispute?*
> 
> DUONG: Actually, we have a tradition of defending our land, our motherland. It's been such a long history; otherwise, we would not survive until now. We always are ready to stand up against any kind of invasion and aggression, either on land or even in the sea. And these are our legacy, our ancestors left for us, and we want to defend it. It's our sentiment. It's a very, very sentimental feeling that we always have – to keep it. The South China Sea, the Paracels, as well as the Spratly Islands belong to us, for thousands of years already. So we cannot let others come and conquer.
> 
> *RAPPLER: In a few adjectives how would you describe the Vietnamese people?*
> 
> DUONG: We are a brave and patriotic people.
> 
> *RAPPLER: That's how you were brought up.*
> 
> DUONG: Exactly.
> 
> 
> *RAPPLER: How much does Vietnam need the United States in the South China Sea issue?*
> 
> DUONG: Well, actually, we always want the US to play an important role here.... There must be somebody who can stand strongly against, well, the big guy over there.... So there's no peaceful rise about China. China is always saying that it just has a kind of a peaceful rise of China right now, but indeed, it's not peaceful at all. And there must be somebody. Or Vietnam, we've been living with the Chinese for thousands of years, so we know how to drive them back and how to survive. But still, in this world, sometimes it's not very easy. And war should be the last resort that we should use in this present situation.
> 
> *RAPPLER: What are you fears right now in relation to this dispute? Your country's fears?*
> 
> DUONG: Fears? In fact, we stand ready for anything that can happen. Fear is not the right word that we have right now. We don't fear anything. We do not fear anything. We would be ready to encounter what comes next.
> 
> *RAPPLER: Where do you see this dispute going in the near future?*
> 
> DUONG: That would be a very, very difficult question to answer. But I do hope that China will feel and see what will be good for them if it does not want to stand alone against the whole world. Because nobody's supporting China right now. You can see that. Everybody's blaming China.... Even the US, the Philippines, and many others. Japan, Korea, Australia, the EU, everybody is just blaming China.
> 
> *RAPPLER: What message do you want to send China?*
> 
> DUONG: Be reasonable. Be reasonable, and act like a responsible member of the international community.
> 
> *RAPPLER: Do you have any other thoughts that we may not have covered?*
> 
> DUONG: Well, I think that's enough. Maybe the only thing that I really want to stress right now is that Vietnam and the Philippines, we've got to be united, and stand united. We will win.
> 
> *RAPPLER: That pronoun is interesting – “we.”*
> 
> DUONG: Yeah, "we" means the Vietnamese people and the Filipino people.
> 
> *RAPPLER: So right now your mindset is...*
> 
> DUONG: We are on the same side.
> 
> Q and A: 'Brave, patriotic' Vietnam challenges China



china will soon give a full test over the fineness of usa promise for the little rat-thief philippine.


Malaya said:


> *US-made gunboats boost PH sea patrol*
> Agence France-Presse
> Wednesday, June 18th, 2014
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *MARITIME MUSCLE Members of the Philippine Maritime Police special boat unit maneuver a US-made gunboat as they simulate the apprehension of poachers during a training exercise off Honda Bay in Puerto Princesa City in this photo taken on June 6. The gunboat packs a top speed of more than 83 kilometers per hour (45 knots) and has the capability to operate at night and is equipped with a radar. It is manned by police officers who underwent special training from US Navy Seals. AFP*
> 
> HONDA BAY, Palawan—After a short, intense chase, two Philippine Maritime Police gunboats catch up with an illegal fishing vessel and circle it like menacing sharks, their armed commandos poised to rappel onboard.
> 
> “Their first reaction is to flee, but they stop once they realize they cannot outrun us,” the boat captain, John Rey Zumarraga, said during a training exercise in Honda Bay off the western island of Palawan.
> 
> *With top speeds of 83 kilometers an hour (45 knots), modern radar systems and elite Marine officers, the 10-meter Special Boat Unit vessels are bad news for illegal fishermen.*
> 
> Set up four years ago with funding from the US government, which also donated the gunboats and provided Navy Seal training, the unit’s mission is to patrol the nearly 2,000-km coast of the strategically located province.
> 
> Combating human trafficking is one part of its mission, but most of its time and resources are spent on trying to stop poaching of rare fish and other endangered wildlife in and around Palawan, which lies astride the South China Sea.
> 
> “Without those (gunboats) the poachers would be laughing at us,” said the unit’s chief administrative officer, Insp. Bryan Espinosa.
> 
> *Achilles heel*
> 
> But the unit has an Achilles heel or two: With just six boats and a tiny fuel budget, it cannot come close to adequately patroling the waters around Palawan and into the West Philippine Sea.
> 
> “The area is too vast to be patroled,” Espinosa conceded.
> 
> Nevertheless, the boat unit has been involved in the arrests of hundreds of fishermen, many of them foreigners, and busts involving Chinese and Vietnamese crews have sent diplomatic shockwaves across the South China Sea.
> 
> The unit last month arrested nine Chinese fishermen in the hotly contested West Philippine Sea waters off Palawan and seized their boat, which police said contained hundreds of endangered hawksbill sea turtles, many of them dead.
> 
> Most of the unit’s work is restricted to just off the coast of Palawan, which is indisputably Philippine territory.
> 
> However, the Chinese bust occurred more than 100 km off Palawan in a part of the South China Sea that the Philippines insists it has sovereign rights over but is also claimed by China, Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan.
> 
> *Indisputably PH’s*
> 
> The arrests fueled a decades-long but increasingly bitter row between the Philippines and China over their competing claims to parts of the sea, and the Chinese government demanded the fishermen be immediately released.
> 
> China insists it has sovereign rights to nearly all of the South China Sea, including waters more than 1,000 km from its most southern major landmass and just 40 or 50 km from Palawan.
> 
> The Philippines has held its ground in the case, maintaining the fishermen must be brought to justice for harvesting a rare and protected species, a crime that carries a maximum penalty of 20 years in jail.
> 
> The Chinese crew have appeared in court at Puerto Princesa City for initial proceedings in what is expected to be a lengthy judicial process. They have pleaded not guilty.
> 
> They are in jail with dozens of Vietnamese arrested near Palawan’s most southern tip in waters that indisputably belong to the Philippines.
> 
> *Plea bargain*
> 
> Twelve of those fishermen offered last week to switch to guilty pleas and pay fines in exchange for their immediate release. The chief Palawan state prosecutor, Alen Rodriguez, said plea bargains were common.
> 
> “Bringing about convictions is quite easy, especially as they often resort to plea bargains,” Rodriguez told Agence France-Presse (AFP).
> 
> In 2011, the unit was also involved in a joint operation with the military that led to the arrest of 122 Vietnamese, the biggest illegal fishing bust in recent memory. They served jail terms of about six months, then were sent home.
> 
> Rodriguez said most foreigners charged with illegal fishing served sentences ranging from six months to four years.
> 
> *Scarce fish*
> 
> The Chinese detained last week face longer prison terms because their case involves an endangered species, rather than just illegal fishing.
> 
> Fishermen from China, Taiwan, Malaysia, Indonesia, the Philippines and Vietnam have for centuries shared the South China Sea’s riches, mostly peacefully.
> 
> But in recent decades, competition for increasingly scarce fish stocks has heightened as populations in Asian nations have boomed, forcing fishermen to travel further from home and closer to foreign coasts for their hauls.
> 
> “They know fully well that they are fishing beyond their territorial waters. Their vessels are equipped with GPS (global positioning system),” said the boat unit’s spokesman, Insp. Raymond Abella.
> 
> *Not enough*
> 
> The unit is expanding, with a new station being built near Malaysia and another one planned for the sea border with Indonesia.
> 
> However, Abella conceded this still would not be nearly enough to counter the growing problem of foreign fishing incursions.
> 
> “Palawan has a lot of resources that are no longer available where they come from, and it is relatively easy to get them. They know that policing here is not as strict, that’s why they continue to come here,” he said.
> 
> There are no police gunboats to patrol the rest of the country’s coastline, the fourth longest in the world.
> 
> The safeguarding of marine resources along the rest of the Philippines’ coastline is left to the poorly equipped Navy and Coast Guard, which is generally preoccupied with other duties.


----------



## Rechoice

areal said:


> such kind of maps were not classified actually, our viet namese liars did their work again.
> as this map was released, Ryukyu islands altogether diaoyu islands were under administration of american, but not japan.
> so it said nothing.



I said that US handed to Japan Ryukyu included Senkaku. The owner of Senkaku is Japanese.


Partial image of map showing Senkaku Islands in _World Atlas _published in China in 1960.


----------



## cirr

Chinese rig *Nanhai 9 *on the move due southwest from its present location south of Hainan Island：





















The relocation will take 3 days（18.06.2014 - 20.06.2014）。

I am sure we will sonn hear more about this from our Vietnamese friends。

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## areal

even worse news for our viet namese friends: 982 drill contract has been released.



cirr said:


> Chinese rig *Nanhai 9 *on the move due southwest from its present location south of Hainan Island：
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The relocation will take 3 days（18.06.2014 - 20.06.2014）。
> 
> I am sure we will sonn hear more about this from our Vietnamese friends。



if slave can be used in your sense, then the current viet nam has been china's slave, and the most unimportant one of all.


Rechoice said:


> only China begged Japan 1980 to open door, like slave.


----------



## Rechoice

GeHAC said:


> In accordance with viets logic，US was kicked out by Iraq after operation desert storm.
> We dont care how viets think about that war,what we do know is that China achieved its stragetic objections:
> 1.Vietnam's desire of Indo-China Peninsula aborted
> 2.PLA get well trained after a decade-long poor training(Every army group)and starts its modernization.
> 3.Economic Boom
> Compare Vietnam's economic data during 1980s with china's,it's not difficult to make a conclusion.If the leadership of VCP believe in their propaganda,then we might have thanked viets for testing our achievement of modernization.
> Care more about your own VPA boy,7 of 11 VPA's Corps are doing bussiness which is a great harm to your army(painful experience)



USA can not say totally victory after she go home from Irak and Afghanistan. What happen now in Irak with Sunni rebels ? they will take back Bada soon if USA does not jump back in again. Same story to be seen in Afghanistan in near future. Taliban has been exchanged 5 terrorist for one American soldier ? they have communication channel with USA for future of Afghanistan.

Vietnam has been successfully established a peace in Indochine peninsula;
1/ Viet- Laos-Cam are not signed ally.
2/ History is repeated itself: Chinese aggressors invaded and ran back again.
3/ Viet-Laos-Cam joined to ASEAN, here is background ( or backyard ) of us.

When you are educated chinese, you can make a conclusion for yourself: if China choice the pivot to make tension to robbery policy with Vietnam, it should make an opportunity for Vietnam to be more stronger and more independent from China economically.

VPA corps do business is nothing wrong here in Vietnam. in comparison with other State own companies in Vietnam, VPA corps are less corruption, organization, transparent is better with army discipline, and more.

Vietnam is not small China.


----------



## gpit

Soryu said:


> So what !?



So we learn more how untrustworthy some Vietnamese are.


----------



## cirr

*CCG 3306* with electric propulsion en rounte to sea trials：


----------



## Rechoice

cirr said:


> *CCG 3306* with electric propulsion en rounte to sea trials：



This is a ship of chinese sea pirates.


----------



## cirr

Rechoice said:


> This is a ship of chinese sea pirates.



A sister ship *CCG 2305* is sailing down the mighty Yangtse River for sea trials。

China plans to build a dozen of the class（with electric propulsion，helicopter hangar and all that）for starters。

The work is about half done with 5-6 ships launched so far and 2-3 due for launch shortly。

Pics when available。

Do more，talk less。


----------



## Rechoice

cirr said:


> A sister ship *CCG 2305* is sailing down the mighty Yangtse River for sea trials。
> 
> China plans to build a dozen of the class（with electric propulsion，helicopter hangar and all that）for starters。
> 
> The work is about half done with 5-6 ships launched so far and 2-3 due for launch shortly。
> 
> Pics when available。
> 
> Do more，talk less。



You do more, talk more, but useless.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

Taiwan expands military facilities on Taiping Island（Itu Aba Island）































Way to go。

Check out the relevant news。

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viva_Viet

19:18 | 18/06/2014
VGP - China’s nine-dash line is legally groundless, Major General Surasit Thanadtang from Thailand’s National Defense Studies Institute told the Viet Nam News Agency in a recent interview.







Major-General Surasit Thanadtang

He went on to say that China’s installation of the oil rigHaiyang Shiyou-981 and its aggressive actions in Viet Nam’s exclusive economic zone and continental shelf have only undermined the stability in the region.


The Thai Major General called on relevant parties to respect the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea.

Countries around the world have voiced no support for China’s aggressive actions in Viet Nam’s waters./.

VGP News | Thai General: China’s nine-dash line groundless - Thai General: China’s nine-dash line groundless

A plan from 1979 to unite Sub-Mekong region is working well now. Pro- VN Gen. in Thai start raising his voice. The next will be Pro- VN Gen. in Myanmar condemn China

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Malaya

Good job Thailand. We should not stop getting World attention in this regard. This is plainly unconstitutional as per the international law. China must respect the UNCLOS, hmm maybe the Chinese DO NOT UNDERSTAND as it is in English. Why not translate it in Chinese language?

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## jkroo

Wow, another Viet Nam News stuff.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Malaya

*Philippines seeks speedy UN ruling on China sea dispute *
19 Jun 2014 
AFP

*The Philippines said Thursday it would ask a UN tribunal to expedite its appeal to declare China's expansive claims to the South China Sea invalid, as tensions over the contested waters worsen. *






A China Coast Guard ship (top) and a Philippine supply boat engage in a stand off as the Philippine boat attempts to reach the Second Thomas Shoal, a remote South China Sea reef claimed by both countries, on March 29, 2014

A formal request will be filed seeking a resolution on the case within the year or early 2015, foreign department spokesman Charles Jose said.

*"We are consulting our legal team to present a request to the tribunal if it can hasten its process earlier, rather than later," Jose told AFP.*

He declined to say when the request would be formally transmitted, however.

Foreign Secretary Albert del Rosario separately said a speedier ruling was necessary "because the situation is getting worse by the day in the South China Sea".

China claims most of the South China Sea, including waters near the shores of its neighbours, which has led to escalating territorial disputes.

"The only mechanism that's out there right now ... is arbitration," del Rosario was quoted in local press reports as saying.

"So we hope to be able to get the arbitration in place, that will be the goal line for all of us," del Rosario said.
*
"Hopefully since China is not participating perhaps we can get a quicker resolution from the tribunal," said del Rosario.*

Manila lodged an appeal in March with the United Nations tribunal to rule the claims illegal, but China has resolutely refused to participate in the proceedings.

Del Rosario has said he backs a US proposal for a fresh regional dialogue for a freeze on actions that could provoke tensions in the South China Sea amid fears that Beijing has increasingly become aggressive in staking its claims.

In recent months, the Philippines filed protests after it monitored reclamations in a number of outcrops in the sea region that are within its exclusive economic zone but are occupied by China.

In one of the outcrops, Johnson South Reef, the Philippines said the Chinese appeared to be reclaiming land that may be turned into an airstrip.

Apart from the Philippines, China also has overlapping South China Sea claims with Brunei, Malaysia and Vietnam, as well as with rival Taiwan.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## rott

jkroo said:


> Wow, another Viet Nam News stuff.


We also know how groundless Vietnam news stuffs are.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Viva_Viet

rott said:


> We also know how groundless Vietnam news stuffs are.


Hard slap to China's face, huh 

Mr. Surasit Thanadtang is Major-General in Thai Royal army (and he's pro-VN ). U can come and ask him again abt ur nine-dash line's claim 

VN should support him to become Chief of royal Thai army

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Malaya

*Air Force defies China protest, to push with airstrip upgrade*
Written by Mario J. Mallari Thursday, 19 June 2014 







*The planned upgrade of an airstrip on Pagasa Island in the contested Spratlys will go ahead despite opposition from China, the Philippine Air Force (PAF) yesterday said.*

Air Force chief Lt. Gen. Jeffrey Delgado, however, stressed the government is “careful” in proceeding with the repair and upgrade of the airstrip, which has been there since the 1970s, so as not to be misconstrued by other claimant-countries.

The dispute between Manila and Beijing is over competing claims to parts of the South China Sea.

China claims nearly all of the sea, including waters close to the coasts of the Philippines and other claimant countries.
The Philippines has lodged repeated protests in recent years over China’s growing military and civilian presence on islands and in waters within what it considers as its exclusive economic zone.

Most recently, the Philippines has accused China of creating artificial islands on tiny islets and reefs, possibly as a prelude to building military installations.

At a press briefing after the courtesy call of the officers of the Defense Press Corps (DPC) to the PAF leadership, Delgado said the 1.3-kilometer air strip really needs repairs after the project was met with some “hitches” during the previous years, including lack of funds.

*“We are addressing that, there were only hitches during the previous years. There was a time due to lack of funds...(and now) there are funds... the bottom line, we need to repair that but on how, that is being addressed now,” he added.*

China had earlier accused the Philippine government of “double standard” for calling for a moratorium on all land formation activities in the disputed West Philippine Sea or the South China Sea while a code of conduct is yet to be agreed upon.

Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Hua Chunying reacted by picking on the air strip repair project on Pagasa Island, which China calls Zhongye Islands, accusing the Philippine government of building a world-class airport on the area.

“That is why we are also being careful on this because we have to clear it with the national government if we can pursue this... these are still plans,” said Delgado.

For his part, PAF Chief of Air Staff Maj. Gen. Edgar Fallorina said a winning bidder was already declared by the Department of National Defense (DND) for the first phase of the project, which is under the Philippine Navy.

“*So far it’s a go,” he added*.

Fallorina said the project was divided into two phases – the first phase is composed of providing an approach which includes dredging activities for the construction materials to be transported to the island under the Philippine Navy.

“The second part of the project is for the runway itself. So right now, we are content with the Navy project first and hopefully it will be finished this year,” he stressed.

Pagasa Island is part of the Kalayaan islands group (KIGs) or the Spratlys.

Hua also stressed China’s sovereignty over the Spratlys.

The government has allotted P480 million for the repair and upgrade of the 1.3-kilometer airstrip on Pagasa Island, the second largest island in the Spratlys.

The Air Force has also intensified its air patrols in the West Philippine Sea amid increased activities by China in the area.

*“We have been there everyday...we are conducting almost every day patrol at the West Philippine Sea,”* Delgado said.

He added around 12 to 10 foreign vessels are being sighted in the disputed areas during patrols.

“But it trickles down, at least three or four, so it depends on the level of activities that they are pursuing out there,” Delgado said.

He added the information obtained by air patrols is immediately forwarded to the DND and the Department of Foreign Affairs (DFA).

“Right now, based on our role as far as territorial defense is concerned, is that we provide the needed information to higher headquarters as far as our patrols are concerned; we provide the things that we see from above as we conduct our air patrols to higher headquarters for their perusal, that’s our role for the moment, we provide the necessary air intelligence information,” he said.

At present, PAF reconnaissance flights are concentrating on Scarborough Shoal (Bajo de Masinloc) which lies 124 nautical miles off Zambales and Ayungin Shoal which is around 140 nautical miles from Palawan.

Delgado also reiterated the PAF’s commitment to defend the country’s airspace in the South China Sea despite its current shortage of equipment and growing assertiveness of China.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## tbquestion

China has started moving a second rig into the SCS. I thought they would remove the first rig in August, now they adding a second rig. This is what I predicted in my earlier post. China is pushing Vietnam to make concession by adding so many rigs so soon.


----------



## tbquestion

I thought America was the real imperialist not China. I don't know what is worse for the Vietnamese people, the leadership(party, generals)that left Vietnam in this predicament or China. So sad. So many lives are lost in the Vietnam war only to find out that your real enemy is the bully from the North. For 40 yrs you have done the bidding of this bully and only to have it do this to you. Yesterday, the bully send its FM to Vietnam not for peace, but to tell you shut up. You threaten to take legal action against the bully before and it told you not to. So you obey it. Now it add a second rig. I guess the VCP must sleep well at night knowing that they have left their people and future generation in this mess. Brilliant. One party, but half a brain.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## sincity

tbquestion said:


> I thought America was the real imperialist not China. I don't know what is worse for the Vietnamese people, the leadership(party, generals)that left Vietnam in this predicament or China. So sad. So many lives are lost in the Vietnam war only to find out that your real enemy is the bully from the North. For 40 yrs you have done the bidding of this bully and only to have it do this to you. Yesterday, the bully send its FM to Vietnam not for peace, but to tell you shut up. You threaten to take legal action against the bully before and it told you not to. So you obey it. Now it add a second rig. I guess the VCP must sleep well at night knowing that they have left their people and future generation in this mess. Brilliant. One party, but half a brain.


 


What did Vietnamese lost in the SCS? Vietnam can send their own oil rigs there to drill for oil same as China, both drill oil in SCS. No one will lose anything but both country will gain all the oil they find in the SCS.


----------



## BuddhaPalm

Yet Thailand votes against Vietnam Philippines agenda in ASEAN every single time

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Malaya

BuddhaPalm said:


> Yet Thailand votes against Vietnam Philippines agenda in ASEAN every single time


proof please

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## IsaacNewton

I feel that China gets far too much hate for the 9 dash line. 
The Vietnamese claim over SCS is just as ridiculous (vietnam also claim both spartly and paracel). 
China won't be called a bully if it was smaller, just 4 powers (CN, VN, PH, MY) fighting over the same islands.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Malaya

BuddhaPalm said:


> Now China will spank Philippines with our oil platform.


Bring it on. Since you started it. We will also do the same. As our economy grows. We will soon develop our 7 occupied islands and 3 reefs in Spratlys. We will build a fortress, a pier and pave the runway to all those islands. We don't need to make a fake or build an artificial islands because we have lots of real one to be developed. Anyway here is the good news.

*Philippines, Vietnam can share disputed sea – envoy*
Joint exploration, however, won't work with China. Vietnamese Ambassador to the Philippines Truong Trieu Duong says it will be like recognizing China's claim and falling into its trap.
*





MANILA, Philippines – To keep peace and stability in the South China Sea, the Philippines and Vietnam can share marine resources in the disputed waters, the Vietnamese ambassador told Rappler as tensions rise between Hanoi and Beijing.
*
Vietnamese Ambassador to the Philippines Truong Trieu Duong, however, said the same idea will not work with China.
*“From my own point of view, I think that we can share and we can put aside differences, and we can jointly cooperate with each other to explore it,” Duong said weeks after China allegedly attacked Vietnamese vessels in the South China Sea and injured 6.
*
The 58-year-old ambassador explained that overlapping claims between the Philippines and Vietnam, after all, involve only “some small areas.” China, on the other hand, is claiming virtually the entire South China Sea – parts of which the Philippines claims as the West Philippine Sea, and as for Vietnam, the East Sea.

*“The Philippines and Vietnam, we have some small areas. It's different. But for China, if we put differences aside and jointly cooperate with each other, like it or not, well, and in fact, it's just like recognizing China's claim – just like recognizing China's claim because China is claiming the whole sea,”* Duong said.

*“So we'll fall into the trap of China,”* he said.

'That goodwill evaporated'






China has pushed for the joint exploration of the disputed waters – but always under the premise that it exercises indisputable sovereignty over the South China Sea.

In 2005, Vietnam joined the Philippines and China in an agreement to jointly explore the disputed waters. The Joint Marine Seismic Undertaking expired in 2008 without the government extending it, however, in the face of public criticism. (READ: SC asked: Void expired PH-China offshore oil exploration pact)

In 2013, Vietnam and China again “agreed to establish a maritime work group for joint development at sea,” the Voice of America (VOA) reported. Duong Danh Dy, former Vietnamese consul general to Guangzhou, China, however dismissed this agreement as “just diplomatic rhetoric.”

“Vietnamese and Chinese interests over the South China Sea are like fire and water. Both countries claim sovereignty over the disputed islands in the area. The Chinese government has a long-term expansionist goal and it is willing to wait for an opportunity in 10, 20, 30, or even 100 years. It would not give up the South China Sea unless China is weakened,” the diplomat said, according to VOA.

_The New York Times_ also noted Vietnam and China's announcement in 2013 “that they would try to find ways to jointly develop oil and gas fields.” “That goodwill evaporated,” however, because of the oil rig incident this year, the New York Times said.

Vietnam on Philippines: 'We can talk'

For now, then, one of Vietnam's best options is to boost ties with the Philippines as it did on Sunday, June 8, in a landmark act of sports diplomacy aimed to ease tensions in the South China Sea.

*He said the two countries, for one, belong to the same regional bloc – the Association of Southeast Asian Nations.*

Both countries also signed the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea, a key regional declaration in 2002 that upholds “self-restraint” in activities that will worsen the sea disputes.

“The Philippines and Vietnam, we are kind of a peaceful people. And we do not want to overpower one another, so we can talk. We can talk,” he said.

In contrast, he said: “China does not want to talk. It resorts to...some kind of forceful measures, in defiance of international law.”

When asked if Vietnam is considering filing a case against the Philippines over the South China Sea, Duong said: “No. Never. That would be unthinkable – because between the Philippines and Vietnam, we are now having...very good relations.... And it's not worth fighting when we can still solve everything peacefully.”

The most important thing he wants to stress, Duong said, is that the Philippines and Vietnam should “stand united” so they could “win.”

*“We are on the same side.” *

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Beast

Just another powerless Thai general talks. Just last month Thai chief of army visit China. This kind of institute general has no influence with this kind of attention seeking talk.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Raphael

Does this "Surasit Thanadtang" even exist? A google search of his name literally only shows VN webpages. Either he's a complete nobody, or VN journalists went inside their jungle, found an ordinary rice-farmer, dressed him up in military fatigues, and took a photo.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Viet

Raphael said:


> Does this "Surasit Thanadtang" even exist? A google search of his name literally only shows VN webpages. Either he's a complete nobody, or VN journalists went inside their jungle, found an ordinary rice-farmer, dressed him up in military fatigues, and took a photo.


either you are lazy or dumb. here is one link.

*Royal Thai Armed Forces*

_*3.Major General Surasit Thanadtang*
Director of Strategic Studies Center
Strategic Studies Center, National Defence Studies Institute
62 Vibhavadi- Rangsit Road, Dindaeng
Bangkok 10400
E-mail: s_thanadtang@yahoo.com_

ASEAN Defence Establishments and Civil Society Organizations (CSOs) Cooperation on Non-Traditional Security

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## BuddhaPalm

Even after China spanked Vietnam with oil platform 981 and grabbed Scarborough Shoal, Vietnam and Philippines are still isolated in ASEAN.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Raphael

Viet said:


> either you are lazy or dumb. here is one link.
> 
> *Royal Thai Armed Forces*
> 
> _*3.Major General Surasit Thanadtang*
> Director of Strategic Studies Center
> Strategic Studies Center, National Defence Studies Institute
> 62 Vibhavadi- Rangsit Road, Dindaeng
> Bangkok 10400
> E-mail: s_thanadtang@yahoo.com_
> 
> ASEAN Defence Establishments and Civil Society Organizations (CSOs) Cooperation on Non-Traditional Security



It's interesting he has no official Thai profile page, and instead depends on some ASEAN website. Furthermore, he relies on a yahoo email, not even a government email. In a university, even a visiting researcher would get their own profile page and email inbox. Finally, his bookshelf looks so cheap - even the bookshelves in China's most rural primary school would be better. It just goes to show that 'major general' is a low rank, and the Thai government cannot waste funds on nobodies like him. Struggling people like him are desperate for money - he probably accepted bribes to say whatever the journalists told him to say.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Rechoice

BuddhaPalm said:


> Even after China spanked Vietnam with oil platform 981 and grabbed Scarborough Shoal, Vietnam and Philippines are still isolated in ASEAN.



it is dream of China.


----------



## Viet

Raphael said:


> It's interesting he has no official Thai profile page, and instead depends on some ASEAN website. Furthermore, he relies on a yahoo email, not even a government email. In a university, even a visiting researcher would get their own profile page and email inbox. Finally, his bookshelf looks so cheap - even the bookshelves in China's most rural primary school would be better. It just goes to show that 'major general' is a low rank, and the Thai government cannot waste funds on nobodies like him. Struggling people like him are desperate for money - he probably accepted bribes to say whatever the journalists told him to say.


ok, the main website of the organisation _National Defence Studies Institute _is a mess.
National Defence Studies Institute

even the link to his department _Strategic Studies Center _is not working. but what can you expect from Thailand?
whatever, even if he is a clone or slave, I don´t care as long as he serves for VN interests.


----------



## Raphael

Viet said:


> ok, the main website of the organisation _National Defence Studies Institute _is a mess.
> National Defence Studies Institute
> 
> even the link to his department _Strategic Studies Center _is not working. but what can you expect from Thailand?
> whatever, even if he is a clone or slave, I don´t care as long as he serves for VN interests.



Every time ASEAN confers about the SCS islands issue, Thailand/Cambodia/Myanmar can be relied on to block VN/PH agenda. So obviously, a mere major-general can't decide Thai policy, and cannot help you. Sounds like you need to kidnap the commander-in-chief and brainwash him for Vietnam's agenda - everybody else is useless. Good luck.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## pigtaker

last time you lie about srilanka PM support your claim, then half an hour later they slaped your face by denying your propoganda. spupid viets want to try this trick again?

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## DT1010

pigtaker said:


> last time you lie about srilanka PM support your claim, then half an hour later they slaped your face by denying your propoganda. spupid viets want to try this trick again?


soure??


----------



## sweetgrape

I heard that three argentinians support Vietnam, a teacher, two others I can't remember, and VCP also join Americia Communist conference, and America Communist Party also support vietnam, what's the next?

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## areal

I am afraid that Philippine cannot export enough Filipino maids to sponsor this great job.
I heard there has been a family plan proposed in Philippine, using a newly-developed drug, the birth rate of girls can be increased for foreign earning.



Malaya said:


> *Air Force defies China protest, to push with airstrip upgrade*
> Written by Mario J. Mallari Thursday, 19 June 2014
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *The planned upgrade of an airstrip on Pagasa Island in the contested Spratlys will go ahead despite opposition from China, the Philippine Air Force (PAF) yesterday said.*
> 
> Air Force chief Lt. Gen. Jeffrey Delgado, however, stressed the government is “careful” in proceeding with the repair and upgrade of the airstrip, which has been there since the 1970s, so as not to be misconstrued by other claimant-countries.
> 
> The dispute between Manila and Beijing is over competing claims to parts of the South China Sea.
> 
> China claims nearly all of the sea, including waters close to the coasts of the Philippines and other claimant countries.
> The Philippines has lodged repeated protests in recent years over China’s growing military and civilian presence on islands and in waters within what it considers as its exclusive economic zone.
> 
> Most recently, the Philippines has accused China of creating artificial islands on tiny islets and reefs, possibly as a prelude to building military installations.
> 
> At a press briefing after the courtesy call of the officers of the Defense Press Corps (DPC) to the PAF leadership, Delgado said the 1.3-kilometer air strip really needs repairs after the project was met with some “hitches” during the previous years, including lack of funds.
> 
> *“We are addressing that, there were only hitches during the previous years. There was a time due to lack of funds...(and now) there are funds... the bottom line, we need to repair that but on how, that is being addressed now,” he added.*
> 
> China had earlier accused the Philippine government of “double standard” for calling for a moratorium on all land formation activities in the disputed West Philippine Sea or the South China Sea while a code of conduct is yet to be agreed upon.
> 
> Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Hua Chunying reacted by picking on the air strip repair project on Pagasa Island, which China calls Zhongye Islands, accusing the Philippine government of building a world-class airport on the area.
> 
> “That is why we are also being careful on this because we have to clear it with the national government if we can pursue this... these are still plans,” said Delgado.
> 
> For his part, PAF Chief of Air Staff Maj. Gen. Edgar Fallorina said a winning bidder was already declared by the Department of National Defense (DND) for the first phase of the project, which is under the Philippine Navy.
> 
> “*So far it’s a go,” he added*.
> 
> Fallorina said the project was divided into two phases – the first phase is composed of providing an approach which includes dredging activities for the construction materials to be transported to the island under the Philippine Navy.
> 
> “The second part of the project is for the runway itself. So right now, we are content with the Navy project first and hopefully it will be finished this year,” he stressed.
> 
> Pagasa Island is part of the Kalayaan islands group (KIGs) or the Spratlys.
> 
> Hua also stressed China’s sovereignty over the Spratlys.
> 
> The government has allotted P480 million for the repair and upgrade of the 1.3-kilometer airstrip on Pagasa Island, the second largest island in the Spratlys.
> 
> The Air Force has also intensified its air patrols in the West Philippine Sea amid increased activities by China in the area.
> 
> *“We have been there everyday...we are conducting almost every day patrol at the West Philippine Sea,”* Delgado said.
> 
> He added around 12 to 10 foreign vessels are being sighted in the disputed areas during patrols.
> 
> “But it trickles down, at least three or four, so it depends on the level of activities that they are pursuing out there,” Delgado said.
> 
> He added the information obtained by air patrols is immediately forwarded to the DND and the Department of Foreign Affairs (DFA).
> 
> “Right now, based on our role as far as territorial defense is concerned, is that we provide the needed information to higher headquarters as far as our patrols are concerned; we provide the things that we see from above as we conduct our air patrols to higher headquarters for their perusal, that’s our role for the moment, we provide the necessary air intelligence information,” he said.
> 
> At present, PAF reconnaissance flights are concentrating on Scarborough Shoal (Bajo de Masinloc) which lies 124 nautical miles off Zambales and Ayungin Shoal which is around 140 nautical miles from Palawan.
> 
> Delgado also reiterated the PAF’s commitment to defend the country’s airspace in the South China Sea despite its current shortage of equipment and growing assertiveness of China.



thieves frightened and stopped infighting as the true owner returns.


Malaya said:


> Bring it on. Since you started it. We will also do the same. As our economy grows. We will soon develop our 7 occupied islands and 3 reefs in Spratlys. We will build a fortress, a pier and pave the runway to all those islands. We don't need to make a fake or build an artificial islands because we have lots of real one to be developed. Anyway here is the good news.
> 
> *Philippines, Vietnam can share disputed sea – envoy*
> Joint exploration, however, won't work with China. Vietnamese Ambassador to the Philippines Truong Trieu Duong says it will be like recognizing China's claim and falling into its trap.
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MANILA, Philippines – To keep peace and stability in the South China Sea, the Philippines and Vietnam can share marine resources in the disputed waters, the Vietnamese ambassador told Rappler as tensions rise between Hanoi and Beijing.
> *
> Vietnamese Ambassador to the Philippines Truong Trieu Duong, however, said the same idea will not work with China.
> *“From my own point of view, I think that we can share and we can put aside differences, and we can jointly cooperate with each other to explore it,” Duong said weeks after China allegedly attacked Vietnamese vessels in the South China Sea and injured 6.
> *
> The 58-year-old ambassador explained that overlapping claims between the Philippines and Vietnam, after all, involve only “some small areas.” China, on the other hand, is claiming virtually the entire South China Sea – parts of which the Philippines claims as the West Philippine Sea, and as for Vietnam, the East Sea.
> 
> *“The Philippines and Vietnam, we have some small areas. It's different. But for China, if we put differences aside and jointly cooperate with each other, like it or not, well, and in fact, it's just like recognizing China's claim – just like recognizing China's claim because China is claiming the whole sea,”* Duong said.
> 
> *“So we'll fall into the trap of China,”* he said.
> 
> 'That goodwill evaporated'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China has pushed for the joint exploration of the disputed waters – but always under the premise that it exercises indisputable sovereignty over the South China Sea.
> 
> In 2005, Vietnam joined the Philippines and China in an agreement to jointly explore the disputed waters. The Joint Marine Seismic Undertaking expired in 2008 without the government extending it, however, in the face of public criticism. (READ: SC asked: Void expired PH-China offshore oil exploration pact)
> 
> In 2013, Vietnam and China again “agreed to establish a maritime work group for joint development at sea,” the Voice of America (VOA) reported. Duong Danh Dy, former Vietnamese consul general to Guangzhou, China, however dismissed this agreement as “just diplomatic rhetoric.”
> 
> “Vietnamese and Chinese interests over the South China Sea are like fire and water. Both countries claim sovereignty over the disputed islands in the area. The Chinese government has a long-term expansionist goal and it is willing to wait for an opportunity in 10, 20, 30, or even 100 years. It would not give up the South China Sea unless China is weakened,” the diplomat said, according to VOA.
> 
> _The New York Times_ also noted Vietnam and China's announcement in 2013 “that they would try to find ways to jointly develop oil and gas fields.” “That goodwill evaporated,” however, because of the oil rig incident this year, the New York Times said.
> 
> Vietnam on Philippines: 'We can talk'
> 
> For now, then, one of Vietnam's best options is to boost ties with the Philippines as it did on Sunday, June 8, in a landmark act of sports diplomacy aimed to ease tensions in the South China Sea.
> 
> *He said the two countries, for one, belong to the same regional bloc – the Association of Southeast Asian Nations.*
> 
> Both countries also signed the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea, a key regional declaration in 2002 that upholds “self-restraint” in activities that will worsen the sea disputes.
> 
> “The Philippines and Vietnam, we are kind of a peaceful people. And we do not want to overpower one another, so we can talk. We can talk,” he said.
> 
> In contrast, he said: “China does not want to talk. It resorts to...some kind of forceful measures, in defiance of international law.”
> 
> When asked if Vietnam is considering filing a case against the Philippines over the South China Sea, Duong said: “No. Never. That would be unthinkable – because between the Philippines and Vietnam, we are now having...very good relations.... And it's not worth fighting when we can still solve everything peacefully.”
> 
> The most important thing he wants to stress, Duong said, is that the Philippines and Vietnam should “stand united” so they could “win.”
> 
> *“We are on the same side.” *



Vietnamese can do so as you suggested only if they have such industrial ability.


sincity said:


> What did Vietnamese lost in the SCS? Vietnam can send their own oil rigs there to drill for oil same as China, both drill oil in SCS. No one will lose anything but both country will gain all the oil they find in the SCS.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## DT1010

sweetgrape said:


> I heard that three argentinians support Vietnam, a teacher, two others I can't remember, and VCP also join Americia Communist conference, and America Communist Party also support vietnam, what's the next?


the only thing you should remember is "no one support china"

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Viet

pigtaker said:


> last time you lie about *srilanka PM* support your claim, then half an hour later they slaped your face by denying your propoganda. spupid viets want to try this trick again?


slap your face by yourself
the article is still online. the context was not denied by the SL government.





Lanka backs Vietnam over China | Colombo Gazette

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Zero_wing

Malaya said:


> proof please



wala yan malakas lang maggago yan mga chincom na yan wala na man sila tunay na evidencia puro pag gago lang lakas amoy amats lang yan dami na nila kaaway malapit na rin sila ma resbak

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## pigtaker

Viet said:


> slap your face by yourself
> the article is still online. the context was not denied by the SL government.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lanka backs Vietnam over China | Colombo Gazette


you thick-skin viets, i don't bother to do the dirty work for you,go to the page 384 of thread
[URL='https://defence.pk/threads/south-china-sea-news-discussions.196058/page-384']South China Sea News & Discussions[/URL]

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## jkroo

pigtaker said:


> you thick-skin viets, i don't bother to do the dirty work for you,go to the page 384 of thread
> *South China Sea News & Discussions*


That is called delusions. Delusions comes like :"the whole world support us." Just can't stop it.(炫迈) 

South China Sea News & Discussions | Page 384

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Viva_Viet

Raphael said:


> Every time ASEAN confers about the SCS islands issue, Thailand/Cambodia/Myanmar can be relied on to block VN/PH agenda. So obviously, a mere major-general can't decide Thai policy, and cannot help you. Sounds like you need to kidnap the commander-in-chief and brainwash him for Vietnam's agenda - everybody else is useless. Good luck.


U know the Thai army is controling Thailand now, and if its commander-in-chief dont like someone, he simply kick that guy out, right ? So, this major-Gen will not dare to support VN if the Thai commander-in-chief doesnt allow him to say that.


Or even the Thai commander-in-chief doesnt allow him to support VN, but the pro-VN group in Thai is too strong, so Thai commander-in-chief can not stop him to support VN 

Dont forget that VN's had a plan to unite the Sub-Mekong region since 1979. Seem like we successfully set up a strong pro-VN group in Thailand .

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## BuddhaPalm

^ Yes even the Thai king announced "Vietnam is the third most powerful military in the world... I abdictate in favor of Vietnam"

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## tbquestion

Now I know why the Chinese support Vietnam during the Vietnam war. They didnt want share to share the oil in SCS with any western countries. Only problem is, the US was never after Vietnam 's resource or territories. I wonder who "won" the Vietnam war and was it worth it. Strange that the people who made the decisions in the Vietnam war are still power. These people 
(VCP) know that they will be retiring or dead in 10 years, yet they want to bring their nation to the grave with them. I wonder what is worse cancer or Communism? Cancer affect individuals (hopefully VCP), but Communism destroy a whole nation.


----------



## tbquestion

Why don't Vietnam asked to be a part of the Chinese nation like the Ukrainian rebel and Russia. The VCP and its comical and pretentious resistance to China is offensive to Vietnam 's glorious past. At least as part of China, Vietnam can prosper unlike the dim-witted leadership of the VCP.

3 million Vietnamese died fighting Capitalism in the form of Nike, Coca Cola, McDonald, KFC and Starbucks. It would it be better if they had died fighting the Chinese. I heard drugs (cocain,heroin...etc) is bad for the brain, I guess it cant be worse than Communism.

3 million Vietnamese died fighting Capitalism in the form of Nike, Coca Cola, McDonald, KFC and Starbucks. It would it be better if they had died fighting the Chinese. I heard drugs (cocain,heroin...etc) is bad for the brain, I guess it cant be worse than Communism.


----------



## xunzi

He is a nobody. Recently their chief visits China in hope for our support over their military takeover. Why don't their chief visit Vietnam to lend support? LOL

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Jlaw

sweetgrape said:


> I heard that three argentinians support Vietnam, a teacher, two others I can't remember, and VCP also join Americia Communist conference, and America Communist Party also support vietnam, what's the next?



I heard Nice_Guy supports Vietnam's claim, but who is he and what is his rank?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## sweetgrape

DT1010 said:


> the only thing you should remember is "no one support china"


Such a discreditable vietnam and vietnamese. hehe I pity you very much.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cirr

What a beauty！







Keep it up


----------



## hoangsa

China is setting a new standard in national declaration . All of declarations from Chinese govermnet is just like voice of a kid...just for fun because there is only about 5% true. What a surprise and what a shame !

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Soryu

tbquestion said:


> China has started moving a second rig into the SCS. I thought they would remove the first rig in August, now they adding a second rig. This is what I predicted in my earlier post. China is pushing Vietnam to make concession by adding so many rigs so soon.





tbquestion said:


> I thought America was the real imperialist not China. I don't know what is worse for the Vietnamese people, the leadership(party, generals)that left Vietnam in this predicament or China. So sad. So many lives are lost in the Vietnam war only to find out that your real enemy is the bully from the North. For 40 yrs you have done the bidding of this bully and only to have it do this to you. Yesterday, the bully send its FM to Vietnam not for peace, but to tell you shut up. You threaten to take legal action against the bully before and it told you not to. So you obey it. Now it add a second rig. I guess the VCP must sleep well at night knowing that they have left their people and future generation in this mess. Brilliant. One party, but half a brain.


Are you real Indonesian !?

And did you have a brain in your head !?
Your comment was all lack proper understand of situation and real issues. I think you should shut down your computer and go to doctor.

The second rig location was declared to put in Chinese continental shelf. But we will keep our eyes on it as alway...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## DT1010

sweetgrape said:


> Such a discreditable vietnam and vietnamese. hehe I pity you very much.


discreditable? China has no right to talk about that thing, a people always feel happy with other's pain but always call themselves as mirror for the world


----------



## TaiShang

Raphael said:


> Does this "Surasit Thanadtang" even exist? A google search of his name literally only shows VN webpages. Either he's a complete nobody, or VN journalists went inside their jungle, found an ordinary rice-farmer, dressed him up in military fatigues, and took a photo.



Looks like with second rig on its way to the Chinese waters in the SCS, the Vietnamese nationalists are becoming desperados on steroid.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Viet

the 9-dash line is fcking groundless. everybody knows it except autistic chinese .



xunzi said:


> He is a nobody. Recently their chief visits China in hope for our support over their military takeover. Why don't their chief visit Vietnam to lend support? LOL


not the army chief, but the acting Foreign Minister Sihasak Phuangketkeow visits Hanoi and seeks support.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

Malaya said:


> Bring it on. Since you started it. We will also do the same. As our economy grows. We will soon develop our 7 occupied islands and 3 reefs in Spratlys. We will build a fortress, a pier and pave the runway to all those islands. We don't need to make a fake or build an artificial islands because we have lots of real one to be developed. Anyway here is the good news.
> 
> *Philippines, Vietnam can share disputed sea – envoy*
> Joint exploration, however, won't work with China. Vietnamese Ambassador to the Philippines Truong Trieu Duong says it will be like recognizing China's claim and falling into its trap.
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MANILA, Philippines – To keep peace and stability in the South China Sea, the Philippines and Vietnam can share marine resources in the disputed waters, the Vietnamese ambassador told Rappler as tensions rise between Hanoi and Beijing.
> *
> Vietnamese Ambassador to the Philippines Truong Trieu Duong, however, said the same idea will not work with China.
> *“From my own point of view, I think that we can share and we can put aside differences, and we can jointly cooperate with each other to explore it,” Duong said weeks after China allegedly attacked Vietnamese vessels in the South China Sea and injured 6.
> *
> The 58-year-old ambassador explained that overlapping claims between the Philippines and Vietnam, after all, involve only “some small areas.” China, on the other hand, is claiming virtually the entire South China Sea – parts of which the Philippines claims as the West Philippine Sea, and as for Vietnam, the East Sea.
> 
> *“The Philippines and Vietnam, we have some small areas. It's different. But for China, if we put differences aside and jointly cooperate with each other, like it or not, well, and in fact, it's just like recognizing China's claim – just like recognizing China's claim because China is claiming the whole sea,”* Duong said.
> 
> *“So we'll fall into the trap of China,”* he said.
> 
> 'That goodwill evaporated'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China has pushed for the joint exploration of the disputed waters – but always under the premise that it exercises indisputable sovereignty over the South China Sea.
> 
> In 2005, Vietnam joined the Philippines and China in an agreement to jointly explore the disputed waters. The Joint Marine Seismic Undertaking expired in 2008 without the government extending it, however, in the face of public criticism. (READ: SC asked: Void expired PH-China offshore oil exploration pact)
> 
> In 2013, Vietnam and China again “agreed to establish a maritime work group for joint development at sea,” the Voice of America (VOA) reported. Duong Danh Dy, former Vietnamese consul general to Guangzhou, China, however dismissed this agreement as “just diplomatic rhetoric.”
> 
> “Vietnamese and Chinese interests over the South China Sea are like fire and water. Both countries claim sovereignty over the disputed islands in the area. The Chinese government has a long-term expansionist goal and it is willing to wait for an opportunity in 10, 20, 30, or even 100 years. It would not give up the South China Sea unless China is weakened,” the diplomat said, according to VOA.
> 
> _The New York Times_ also noted Vietnam and China's announcement in 2013 “that they would try to find ways to jointly develop oil and gas fields.” “That goodwill evaporated,” however, because of the oil rig incident this year, the New York Times said.
> 
> Vietnam on Philippines: 'We can talk'
> 
> For now, then, one of Vietnam's best options is to boost ties with the Philippines as it did on Sunday, June 8, in a landmark act of sports diplomacy aimed to ease tensions in the South China Sea.
> 
> *He said the two countries, for one, belong to the same regional bloc – the Association of Southeast Asian Nations.*
> 
> Both countries also signed the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea, a key regional declaration in 2002 that upholds “self-restraint” in activities that will worsen the sea disputes.
> 
> “The Philippines and Vietnam, we are kind of a peaceful people. And we do not want to overpower one another, so we can talk. We can talk,” he said.
> 
> In contrast, he said: “China does not want to talk. It resorts to...some kind of forceful measures, in defiance of international law.”
> 
> When asked if Vietnam is considering filing a case against the Philippines over the South China Sea, Duong said: “No. Never. That would be unthinkable – because between the Philippines and Vietnam, we are now having...very good relations.... And it's not worth fighting when we can still solve everything peacefully.”
> 
> The most important thing he wants to stress, Duong said, is that the Philippines and Vietnam should “stand united” so they could “win.”
> 
> *“We are on the same side.” *


that is the way to go.
Vietnam and Philippines should advance joint cooperations in the SC Sea.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TaiShang

*Beijing Review*

A Chinese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman said on Friday there is no need to over interpret the recent deployment of four oil rigs in the South China Sea.

The four oil rigs are in the waters off Guangdong and Hainan provinces, said spokeswoman Hua Chunying at a daily news briefing when asked whether the four rigs will be positioned into disputed waters.

*The coordinates of the rigs can be found on the website of China's Maritime Safety Administration, said Hua. "There is no need to make a fuss about normal activities."*

China's Maritime Safety Administration issued announcements this week about the drilling operations of oil rigs Nanhai 2, 4, 5 and 9.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## sweetgrape

DT1010 said:


> discreditable? China has no right to talk about that thing, a people always feel happy with other's pain but always call themselves as mirror for the world


Always? hehe, how do you get that? 
China don't have that right? you viet have? where is your mercy when you vietnamese were exciting in protesting against China, and burning the factory, and killingChinese? 

In my eyes, you veitnam is a ugly clown, nothing else, when you choose to be thief and liar, you will know in Chinese territory water you will not get mercy from China again, you think you are qualified? discreditable thief.

If you are painful, hold it, you will feel stronger pain, you deserve it, because you are thief.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Malaya

*Philippine, US warships to hold drills near China-claimed waters*
20 Jun 2014

*Philippine and US warships are set to kick off joint drills near disputed South China Sea waters next week, a Filipino military spokesman said on Friday, amid escalating territorial rows between Beijing and its neighbours.*
*



*

*MANILA: Philippine and US warships are set to kick off joint drills near disputed South China Sea waters next week, a Filipino military spokesman said on Friday, amid escalating territorial rows between Beijing and its neighbours.*

The drills will be held off the west coast of the Philippines' main island of Luzon, said Lieutenant Rommel Rodriguez, spokesman for the Filipino side of the operations.

China claims most of the South China Sea -- including waters approaching its neighbours' coastlines -- and has been increasingly assertive in staking these claims.

But Rodriguez said the CARAT (Cooperation Afloat Readiness and Training) joint exercises, involving nearly 1,000 troops from both countries, were a regular annual event and he dismissed any connection to rising tensions in the region.

"All of our exercises will be conducted in our territorial waters. This has nothing to do with any dispute," he told AFP.

*The Philippines has accused China of using "bullying" tactics in the sea, which lies on key shipping routes and is believed to harbour massive gas deposits, and Manila is lobbying for a UN tribunal to declare the Asian giant's territorial claims invalid.*

Beijing placed an oil rig in disputed waters last month, sparking anti-China riots in Vietnam, and on Friday announced that it was sending another four rigs to the sea. It was unclear whether any of them would be in contested areas.

The USS John McCain, an American destroyer, as well as the landing ship USS Ashland will join Philippine navy vessels for the exercises, which will last from June 26 until July 1, Rodriguez said.

They will include search and rescue, boarding and salvage drills as well as gunnery exercises next Saturday and Sunday, he added.

Rodriguez stressed that the exercises would take place "very far" from the Scarborough Shoal, an outcrop in the South China Sea currently guarded by Chinese government vessels, which was the scene of a tense standoff with the Philippines in 2012.

Manila, which has one of the weakest militaries in the region, has been increasingly turning to its main defence ally Washington to back it up against China.

The allies recently signed a new defence accord giving US forces greater access to Filipino bases in the former US colony.

Although the United States has taken no side in the territorial disputes, it has warned China against taking "destabilising actions" in the South China Sea. 

- AFP


----------



## Malaya

*Aquino to brief Japan's Abe on China case*
Philippine President Benigno Aquino III and Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe will also be 'sharing views' on maritime disputes with China

Jun 20, 2014







*MANILA, Philippines – In a move seen to agitate Beijing, Philippine President Benigno Aquino III will brief Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe on the Southeast Asian country's historic case against China over the disputed South China Sea.*

Aquino will do this when he visits Japan on Tuesday, June 24, to deliver a speech on the Mindanao peace process and to discuss “recent regional developments,” among other things, with Abe.

*“It's very important for the President to brief the Japanese side on the arbitration case that we filed against China. I'm sure the President will be updating the Prime Minister on the status of our case,”* Philippine Department of Foreign Affairs (DFA) spokesman Charles Jose said in a media briefing Friday, June 20.

Jose initially declined to categorically confirm if Aquino and Abe will discuss China, and said the two leaders “can talk about anything that they want.”

He later said, “We can see so much developments in the South China Sea, East China Sea, so I'm sure they will be sharing views and exchanging views on the issue.”

The two leaders will discuss maritime cooperation, humanitarian assistance, disaster response, promotion of trade and investments, people-to-people exchanges, and the Mindanao peace process.

“The meeting is an opportunity for the two leaders to exchange views on recent regional developments and to discuss areas of cooperation to enhance our strategic partnership,” Jose added.

*Philippines, Japan facing China*

Aquino's visit will only last for a day, as he is set to deliver the keynote speech at the Consolidation for Peace for Mindanao Conference in Hiroshima, Japan.

His visit to Japan comes as both Manila and Tokyo remain embroiled in maritime disputes with Beijing.

The Philippines, on one hand, is challenging China's expansive claims over the South China Sea, parts of which the Southeast Asian country claims as the West Philippine Sea.

It is pursuing a case against China before an arbitral tribunal at the Permanent Court of Arbitration. (READ: Experts debunk China's claim on defying int'l rulings)

It has also filed diplomatic protests against China's activities, most recently the Asian giant's reclamation projects in the South China Sea.

Relations between Japan and China, on the other hand, have plummeted over their competing claims to the Japanese-controlled Senkaku islands in the East China Sea.

Last week alone, Japan summoned the Chinese ambassador after a near miss involving fighter jets from the two nations near the islands, which China calls the Diaoyus.

*Moves detested by China*

In July 2013, Aquino and Abe already met about a shared concern in apparent reference to China – in the Japanese leader's words, “a strategic interest of making the Asia-Pacific region a free and open region, not by coercion or intimidation, but by the rule of law.”

Abe then pledged 4 forms of assistance to the Philippines that included improving the capabilities of the Philippine Coast Guard.

An analyst saw the meeting in 2013 as an “image-building” move against an aggressive Beijing.

The new meeting between Aquino and Abe is expected to agitate China because it rejects third-party involvement in resolving disputes.

It has instead stressed one-on-one talks with the countries involved – viewed as a lopsided approach as far as the Philippines is concerned, because China is its third biggest trading partner.

Even as China detests multilateral moves, however, countries in the region have begun to work more closely to curb China's moves in the South China Sea. (READ: Philippines to press 'gas pedal' vs sea tensions) *– with reports from Agence France*


----------



## Viet

sweetgrape said:


> Always? hehe, how do you get that?
> China don't have that right? you viet have? where is your mercy when you vietnamese were exciting in protesting against China, and burning the factory, and killingChinese?
> 
> In my eyes, you veitnam is a ugly clown, nothing else, when you choose to be thief and liar, you will know in Chinese territory water you will not get mercy from China again, you think you are qualified? discreditable thief.
> 
> If you are painful, hold it, you will feel stronger pain, you deserve it, because you are thief.


what are you going to do now?
why not either inhale the smog, jump off the window and end your useless life or join the PLA to start a war against Vietnam?


----------



## sincity

The combination of Japan, Phillippine, Vietnam still no match for China in term of military, economy, population, country size, nature resource. However US empire will never cede power over to China in Asia. US empire extend from Hawaii to Guam, Japan, Phillippines, South Korea with US waiting for the right time to overthrown Vietnam communist and station US troop in Vietnam.


----------



## tbquestion

I thought Vietnam was going to take action against China. I guess Beijing had their top man in the VCP put a stop to that. 

China is getting ready to put rigs third and fourth rigs in SCS. Poor VCP, 3 million lives lost in the Vietnam war just for this to happen. The VCP has a museum in HCMC to commemorate America aggression. How come there is no museum in Vietnam to commemorate Chinese imperialism in 1979,1988 and now. 

Silence is weakness, VCP.


----------



## tbquestion

Viet said:


> will you come to germany?
> 
> 
> I believe tbquestion is just a chicom clown.[/quot
> Its so easy to lie to one self. Lets wait and see what US satellite has to say.
> 
> 
> Viet said:
> 
> 
> 
> will you come to germany?
> 
> 
> I believe tbquestion is just a chicom clown.
> 
> 
> 
> Better than a Vietcong who still kisses Chinese 's asses and beg for USA help. Wait, I thought USA was the imperialist monster. Hmm.
Click to expand...


----------



## Nike

Soryu said:


> Are you real Indonesian !?
> 
> And did you have a brain in your head !?
> Your comment was all lack proper understand of situation and real issues. I think you should shut down your computer and go to doctor.
> 
> The second rig location was declared to put in Chinese continental shelf. But we will keep our eyes on it as alway...



i am began wondering too, maybe false flagger. Indonesian member actually prefer to stay put out of the discussion about South China Sea conflict fiasco, unless the discussion hit Natuna matters.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## areal

A gov. like Vietnam's has no right to declare what the truth is.
Read your Vietnam PM Phan's diplomatic letter in 1956 again and think about how to make more careful consideration before sending such a letter.


hoangsa said:


> China is setting a new standard in national declaration . All of declarations from Chinese govermnet is just like voice of a kid...just for fun because there is only about 5% true. What a surprise and what a shame !



There is a small overlapping between 9-dash lines and Indonesian claimed water, it is no complicated for both sides and expected to be easily solved later.


madokafc said:


> i am began wondering too, maybe false flagger. Indonesian member actually prefer to stay put out of the discussion about South China Sea conflict fiasco, unless the discussion hit Natuna matters.



Thieves and losers ask for warm arms from each others.


Malaya said:


> *Aquino to brief Japan's Abe on China case*
> Philippine President Benigno Aquino III and Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe will also be 'sharing views' on maritime disputes with China
> 
> Jun 20, 2014
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *MANILA, Philippines – In a move seen to agitate Beijing, Philippine President Benigno Aquino III will brief Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe on the Southeast Asian country's historic case against China over the disputed South China Sea.*
> 
> Aquino will do this when he visits Japan on Tuesday, June 24, to deliver a speech on the Mindanao peace process and to discuss “recent regional developments,” among other things, with Abe.
> 
> *“It's very important for the President to brief the Japanese side on the arbitration case that we filed against China. I'm sure the President will be updating the Prime Minister on the status of our case,”* Philippine Department of Foreign Affairs (DFA) spokesman Charles Jose said in a media briefing Friday, June 20.
> 
> Jose initially declined to categorically confirm if Aquino and Abe will discuss China, and said the two leaders “can talk about anything that they want.”
> 
> He later said, “We can see so much developments in the South China Sea, East China Sea, so I'm sure they will be sharing views and exchanging views on the issue.”
> 
> The two leaders will discuss maritime cooperation, humanitarian assistance, disaster response, promotion of trade and investments, people-to-people exchanges, and the Mindanao peace process.
> 
> “The meeting is an opportunity for the two leaders to exchange views on recent regional developments and to discuss areas of cooperation to enhance our strategic partnership,” Jose added.
> 
> *Philippines, Japan facing China*
> 
> Aquino's visit will only last for a day, as he is set to deliver the keynote speech at the Consolidation for Peace for Mindanao Conference in Hiroshima, Japan.
> 
> His visit to Japan comes as both Manila and Tokyo remain embroiled in maritime disputes with Beijing.
> 
> The Philippines, on one hand, is challenging China's expansive claims over the South China Sea, parts of which the Southeast Asian country claims as the West Philippine Sea.
> 
> It is pursuing a case against China before an arbitral tribunal at the Permanent Court of Arbitration. (READ: Experts debunk China's claim on defying int'l rulings)
> 
> It has also filed diplomatic protests against China's activities, most recently the Asian giant's reclamation projects in the South China Sea.
> 
> Relations between Japan and China, on the other hand, have plummeted over their competing claims to the Japanese-controlled Senkaku islands in the East China Sea.
> 
> Last week alone, Japan summoned the Chinese ambassador after a near miss involving fighter jets from the two nations near the islands, which China calls the Diaoyus.
> 
> *Moves detested by China*
> 
> In July 2013, Aquino and Abe already met about a shared concern in apparent reference to China – in the Japanese leader's words, “a strategic interest of making the Asia-Pacific region a free and open region, not by coercion or intimidation, but by the rule of law.”
> 
> Abe then pledged 4 forms of assistance to the Philippines that included improving the capabilities of the Philippine Coast Guard.
> 
> An analyst saw the meeting in 2013 as an “image-building” move against an aggressive Beijing.
> 
> The new meeting between Aquino and Abe is expected to agitate China because it rejects third-party involvement in resolving disputes.
> 
> It has instead stressed one-on-one talks with the countries involved – viewed as a lopsided approach as far as the Philippines is concerned, because China is its third biggest trading partner.
> 
> Even as China detests multilateral moves, however, countries in the region have begun to work more closely to curb China's moves in the South China Sea. (READ: Philippines to press 'gas pedal' vs sea tensions) *– with reports from Agence France*



When the power has to be shifted, the willing can do nothing.



sincity said:


> The combination of Japan, Phillippine, Vietnam still no match for China in term of military, economy, population, country size, nature resource. However US empire will never cede power over to China in Asia. US empire extend from Hawaii to Guam, Japan, Phillippines, South Korea with US waiting for the right time to overthrown Vietnam communist and station US troop in Vietnam.


----------



## sweetgrape

Viet said:


> what are you going to do now?
> why not either inhale the smog, jump off the window and end your useless life or join the PLA to start a war against Vietnam?


Hehe, whether as vietnamese, only joining army can make you life useful? 
Now I am surfing the net, any problem, today is weakend, monday to friday, I work, earn money and pay tax, dealing with vietnam is big thing? even in 1979, that war not influenced Chinese normal life, if there will be war again between China and Viet, you think that now will big thing?

Find you vietnam always make idiotic comments, even you have experience in German, still a normal vietnamese, have fool logic and mind.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

Posted: 8:36 p.m. Friday, June 20, 2014

*China Sends 4 Oil Rigs To South China Sea Amid Tensions With Vietnam*

By International Business Times

(Reuters) - China has sent four oil rigs into the South China Sea in a sign that Beijing is stepping up its exploration for oil and gas in the tense region, less than two months after it positioned a giant drilling platform in waters claimed by Vietnam. Earlier this week, it gave coordinates for a fourth rig, the Nanhai 9, which it said would be positioned just outside Vietnam's exclusive economic zone by Friday.

China Sends 4 Oil Rigs To South China Sea Amid Tensions With Vietnam | www.ajc.com

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

*Beijing ignores Hanoi (and Manila), builds three new drilling rigs*

Do more，talk less。

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## terranMarine

Cirr you are giving some members here high blood pressure, keep it up


----------



## Viet

cirr said:


> *Beijing ignores Hanoi (and Manila), builds three new drilling rigs*
> 
> Do more，talk less。


yes, we build more and more beautiful houses on the islands, too.
good for vacation.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## pigtaker

Viet said:


> when?


we are a responsible country, so we will give enough time to let you viets jump up and down. Be patient, keep a close eye on our editorial .

one thing to remind you, we have 3 more rigs to come.


----------



## DT1010

pigtaker said:


> we are a responsible country, so we will give enough time to let you viets jump up and down. Be patient, keep a close eye on our editorial .
> 
> one thing to remind you, we have 3 more rigs to come.


oh, so when?


----------



## Malaya

*The Philippines opens its air force bases to US*
June 21,2014






An OV-10 close-air-support aircraft of the Philippine Air Force. (Internet Photo)

*Lieutenant General Jeffrey Delgado, commanding general of the Philippine Air Force said that Manila is ready to open all of its eight air force bases for use by the United States Air Force once all legal roadblocks to the Enhanced Defense Cooperation Agreement are cleared according to the state-run China Daily on June 19.*

"We are offering the existing bases that we have," said Delgado to the Manila-based Philippine Daily Inquirer. "Such things, though, are still subject to negotiations and it still has to be discussed with our American counterparts." Manila and Washington signed a 10-year pact which allows US warships, aircraft and troops to use military facilities on Apr. 28 during the visit of President Barack Obama to the nation.

Delgado said all air force-occupied bases are being taken into consideration for the military cooperation with the United States in the future. The Philippines is currently engaged in a territorial dispute with China over the Scarborough Shoal and the Spratly islands. While the standoff between maritime security vessels belonging to the two nations continue to take place around the Second Thomas Shoal, the expansion of Chinese air power into the South China Sea has been seen as a real threat to Philippine airspace.

China is currently constructing an artificial island near the Fiery Cross Reef in the Spratlys according to the Hong Kong-based South China Morning Post. With a handful of close-air-support aircraft, the Philippine Air Force will find it hard to compete against the People's Liberation Army Air Force or Navy Air Force once China's force projection extends following the completion of construction of the artificial island. For this reason, Manila needs the support of the US air power to defend its homeland against any potential attack from China.

The waters around the Spratly Islands are thought to hold underwater resources, which has led to competing claims to the islands and their contiguous waters, in whole or in part, by China, Brunei, Taiwan, the Philippines and Malaysia.


----------



## Viet

pigtaker said:


> we are a responsible country, so we will give enough time to let you viets jump up and down. Be patient, keep a close eye on our editorial .
> 
> one thing to remind you, we have 3 more rigs to come.


position all out of our EEZ waters. correct me if I am wrong.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## pigtaker

Viet said:


> position all out of our EEZ waters. correct me if I am wrong.


who knows, it is mobile, depend on where the oil is.


----------



## cirr

Fishing vessels Shun Feng-001 and Shun Feng-002 launched at ZPMC's Qidong Marine Engineering Co. Ltd：






















Eight such ships will be built for starters。

Our Vietnames friends need to expand their fishing fleet in a major way，both in terms of the size and the number of the ships。

Bigger，higher and faster。

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

cirr said:


> Fishing vessels Shun Feng-001 and Shun Feng-002 launched at ZPMC's Qidong Marine Engineering Co. Ltd：
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eight such ships will be built for starters。
> 
> Our Vietnames friends need to expand their fishing fleet in a major way，both in terms of the size and the number of the ships。
> 
> Bigger，higher and faster。



ships of chinese sea pirates.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## liubang

As a viet nationalist, it is rather pointless to argue whose e-penis (nationalism/national pride) is bigger. I want to ask all the Chinese here. What is China's end goal? Chinese-spoke people kept taking that it want peace and that China's rise in power is not a threat to anyone. Is that a lie? Is the current China still harbor historical expansionism attitude or these recent events are just really over much needed fuels? To be honest, I don't really care for some islands or some oil rigs. But the whole trading route of South China Sea? And I am afraid to think what beyond that. Internet armchair strategists like you people or the people who thought up the 6 wars China had to fight in the coming years, what is the end goal?? To conquer all the territories under the map of national shame? Or being the second coming of the British and American Empire? Well, there is after a recent Taiwanese's article in regard to China invasion in 2020 which coincide with the 6 wars China had to fought article.

How do China prevent major consequences while keeping its interest? I had already resign that Vietnam really is a nobody in this conflict. It doesn't have a superpower or an emerging superpower as its backing unlike some other countries. America talk a big game but it won't do jack shit and will sell Vietnam to China like it had done in the past. India and Japan flirting around with Vietnam but it won't commit jack shit either. Unless China start a real fight with say Taiwan, Philippines, South Korea, and Japan, then the Americans will act. But until then, nothing.

The problem is this. It isn't within China's interest to go to war with Vietnam. Even the nations that kissing China's *** like say Malaysia. All those nations are beefing up their defense and military while saying "China is our friend. China is so peaceful. Go and police our water all you want." One can see where they stand with their actions regardless of their words. Although, a war with Vietnam is not planned however with such a high tension at sea, either parties can go overboard and with horrible consequences. A war with Vietnam will forever change China's role in the region. ASEAN, Japan, South Korea, and India will even more on edge. And the type of shitty diplomacy like "we are your friend... we came in peace" won't work ever again.

The American had already show their resolve over curbing the rise of China. They committed 2 wars (Vietnam and Korea) on precisely that. Messing with Vietnam is one thing. But going way overboard in South China Sea/East China Sea will interfere with American's interest. And the neocons over here are itching for a fight. At that time, the USA will fund all separatist movements in China like they did for ethnic minorities during the Vietnam War. Russia maybe friendly now after the Ukraine incident. But it had shown in the past to be wary of China. After all, it is the 6th out of 6 wars that the Chinese have to fought. Even now after shaking hand with China, it still selling weapons to countries that are against the Chinese's interest.

Chinese economy is but a paper tiger. Global industries are already put their "race to the bottom" in effect. In a few years time, jobs will left China and moving down to ASEAN nations. Chinese's investments abroad are meeting resistance and fueling anti China sentiment. From Africa, to South America, to South East Asia, people felt the Chinese are taking over everything. Ask the so call Chinese friends? The Laotians are getting there on the verge of being fed up. As for Malays, the government may say one thing, but how long will it be until another May 13. Same thing happening over Burma and elsewhere in Africa, how many million of dollars will the Chinese buy these people off like they did in Cambodia?? Is it sustainable using only hard power?

If China think it will exercise only hard power and that other nations will led it emerge as a superpower peacefully, then think again. The establishments: USA, European Union, and Russia will compete more with China on diplomacy, economy, and military. Rising regional powers and emerging superpowers like Indonesia and India are wary of China. Unless, you completely screw over Vietnam, if not, then the Vietnam and Philippines will also play the catch up games. 

China should learn from the USA. The American's exercise of only hard power doesn't work and getting more trouble than its bargain. China should really gave up its expansionism dream. It may had work 100 years ago but not in this global climate. So you cheerleaders are so happy with the recent developments are very very shortsighted. Winning allies in the region is much better for China in the long run. Soft Power?? What are China's image around the world?? Dog eaters with the Dog eating festival (embarrassingly for Vietnam too for that), poaching Rhino for quack medicines (same with Vietnam), lead in children toys, melamine in infant milks??? Low quality and fake products that even Chinese don't want to buy (that is the exact Chinese customers' behavior at my store)? Air pollution so bad that it migrating toward all countries around it and even to America half way around the world (and not to mention is visible from the moon)? Chinese fled China in huge population because they felt there is no opportunity for them there. I meant, jesus, a Chinese farmer going to Africa to farm. What is the freaking world coming to. As much as the world seemed to hate Americans, they still seemed to love them a ton more than the Chinese.

Reactions: Positive Rating Positive Rating:
1 | Like Like:
1


----------



## terranMarine

It's a stupid question asking what China's end goal is. There's no end goal for every country. One can ask that silly question 500 years ago , 100 years ago, today, 100 years from now, 500 years from now. Every country, every leaders have different sets of goals.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## liubang

terranMarine said:


> It's a stupid question asking what China's end goal is. There's no end goal for every country. One can ask that silly question 500 years ago , 100 years ago, today, 100 years from now, 500 years from now. Every country, every leaders have different sets of goals.



It isn't stupid. I asking how far is China going to take it. As a viet, I wouldn't know. I am hoping for some Chinese insider. Because the information I gather is all over the place. Before Vietnam War, China had an expansionism attitude. Then it had the attitude of doing businesses with everyone. Now, it using it navy to patrol the entirety of the entire South China Sea and almost pushing into Indian Ocean. So how far will China go?? A war like the Chinese article said? Or just pushing and pushing with these oil rigs and then pull back when it got too tense. How far is China willing to go at least during the current time? I think I am speaking English. I don't know if you can understand me while I am being as clear as I am.



terranMarine said:


> It's a stupid question asking what China's end goal is. There's no end goal for every country. One can ask that silly question 500 years ago , 100 years ago, today, 100 years from now, 500 years from now. Every country, every leaders have different sets of goals.



Just to be clear, I will actually take whatever you say seriously. So don't post stupid irrelevant shit like this again. I am ain't here to play the pointless dumbfuck flame war like I have seen on this thread.


----------



## terranMarine

liubang said:


> It isn't stupid. I asking how far is China going to take it. As a viet, I wouldn't know. I am hoping for some Chinese insider. Because the information I gather is all over the place. Before Vietnam War, China had an expansionism attitude. Then it had the attitude of doing businesses with everyone. Now, it using it navy to patrol the entirety of the entire South China Sea and almost pushing into Indian Ocean. So how far will China go?? A war like the Chinese article said? Or just pushing and pushing with these oil rigs and then pull back when it got too tense. How far is China willing to go at least during the current time? I think I am speaking English. I don't know if you can understand me while I am being as clear as I am.
> 
> Just to be clear, I will actually take whatever you say seriously. So don't post stupid irrelevant shit like this again. I am ain't here to play the pointless dumbfuck flame war like I have seen on this thread.



Let me ask you this "how far is the US willing to go for world domination?" We have seen Vietnam War, 2 Wars in Iraq, Afghan War, US involvements in the ME, Africa. You should try to count how many countries the US has bombed for the past few decades. Is eager to bomb Syria and Iran too. Did i mention the US has blacksites all over the world? As a Viet living in the US don't you have anything to say about this rather pointing the finger at China how far it is willing to go?


----------



## liubang

terranMarine said:


> Let me ask you this "how far is the US willing to go for world domination?" We have seen Vietnam War, 2 Wars in Iraq, Afghan War, US involvements in the ME, Africa. You should try to count how many countries the US has bombed for the past few decades. Is eager to bomb Syria and Iran too. Did i mention the US has blacksites all over the world? As a Viet living in the US don't you have anything to say about this rather pointing the finger at China how far it is willing to go?



Very far... In fact I am against the neocon. In fact, I don't think the USA is a moral agent in the past nor it is now. Only stupid people think we go to the Middle East to spread Democracy, or going to the Philippines to Christianize the heathens. If you want my opinions on that sure. But it would be off topic for this thread. Vietnam always had to chose one of two devils. They went to the USSR against France. And now, they want to drag America in via allying with Japan and Philippine to combat China. That is call the politics of a weak nation. I thought you guys would be well verse, I meant geez, you guys have the warring states and the 3 kingdoms.

I had spent the last few years defending China against every damn ignorant Western views. But during that whole time, I know China is just the same USA sooner or later. But I do believe the title of this thread has nothing to do with this. Feel free to send me messages in regard to this. But this isn't the 70s, at least in the perspective of Vietnam at the moment. Will Vietnam be like Bhutan where China occupy like 10% of its land. Or if China going far enough to Vietnam like it did with Tibet. I don't know. I was under the impression the Chinese citizens don't think the same way as their government do. But it turn out the Chinese are prideful and nationalistic like everyone else. And some surveys had indicate they are happy with the direction of their government. Unlike the viet who say shitty stuffs against the viet government over this whole issues. It seemed like the Chinese government had a bunch of cheerleaders online and elsewhere. Even the Chinese ethic viet in my family are very prideful of China. But yeah, if you don't want to answer, just say it and stop wasting my time.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

EDIT: The viet, the filipinos, the chinese, the westerners, etc. They are all wrong when they tackle this issues in a moral perspective. That is just plain stupid. There is no morality here. It doesn't matter if all the chinese maps are fake or if there is no ancient chinese on those islands. Might is right. And it always had been that way. But too bad, China isn't the sole power here.


----------



## terranMarine

liubang said:


> Very far... In fact I am against the neocon. In fact, I don't think the USA is a moral agent in the past nor it is now. Only stupid people think we go to the Middle East to spread Democracy, or going to the Philippines to Christianize the heathens. If you want my opinions on that sure. But it would be off topic for this thread. Vietnam always had to chose one of two devils. They went to the USSR against America. And now, they want to drag America in via allying with Japan and Philippine to combat China. That is call the politics of a weak nation. I thought you guys would be well verse, I meant geez, we have the warring states and the 3 kingdoms.
> 
> I had spent the last few years defending China against every damn ignorant Western views. But during that whole time, I know China is just the same USA sooner or later. But I do believe the title of this thread has nothing to do with this. Feel free to send me messages in regard to this. But this isn't the 70s, at least in the perspective of Vietnam at the moment. Will Vietnam be like Bhutan where China occupy like 10% of its land. Or if China going far enough to Vietnam like it did with Tibet. I don't know. I was under the impression the Chinese citizens don't think the same way as their government do. But it turn out the Chinese are prideful and nationalistic like everyone else. And some surveys had indicate they are happy with the direction of their government. Unlike the viet who say shitty stuffs against the viet government over this whole issues. It seemed like the Chinese government had a bunch of cheerleaders online and elsewhere. Even the Chinese ethic viet in my family are very prideful of China. But yeah, if you don't want to answer, just say it and stop wasting my time.
> 
> The viet, the filipinos, the chinese, the westerners, etc. They are all wrong when they tackle this issues in a moral perspective. That is just plain stupid. There is no morality here. It doesn't matter if all the chinese maps are fake or if there is no ancient chinese on those islands. Might is right. And it always had been that way. But too bad, China isn't the sole power here.



Chinese are nationalistic just as everybody of every nation. The degree might vary and there are always those who don't care about politics, same with Chinese. But i disagree with you that China is the same as the US. You should know that China with a history of 5000 years as a civilization state hardly had the expansion drift like the British, Mongols or Europeans. All you have to do is look at the maps of the colonies of these Empires and you can see how far they went. With so many neighbors China only invaded Vietnam in the past and ruled your country for a very long time until Vietnam gained independence. Today Australia and America are ruled by people whose ancestors came from EU and the American foreign policies with its hegemony characteristics are no better than the Europeans back in those days, and i haven't even talked about slavery. I understand your worries for Vietnam but the border conflict between China and Vientam has already been solved. The only disputes left lies in SCS where other SE Asian countries also claim sovereignty of certain islands/shoals. I will not debate about sovereignty of these islands, it's pointless as you can tell by now. China's goals related to sovereignty are crystal clear: reducing American influence in SCS, gettng Taiwan back, Diaoyu island and dealing with the border conflict with India.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Soryu

terranMarine said:


> Let me ask you this "how far is the US willing to go for world domination?" We have seen Vietnam War, 2 Wars in Iraq, Afghan War, US involvements in the ME, Africa. You should try to count how many countries the US has bombed for the past few decades. Is eager to bomb Syria and Iran too. Did i mention the US has blacksites all over the world? As a Viet living in the US don't you have anything to say about this rather pointing the finger at China how far it is willing to go?


So US does, and you must do like that !?



Viet said:


> what are you going to do now?
> why not either inhale the smog, jump off the window and end your useless life or join the PLA to start a war against Vietnam?


No need to talk with mock-grape, he's idiot clown want to troll around by his stupid, non-knowledge comments ...
Look at his avatar, dark-mask soldier... but only in here ...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## liubang

Edit: can't post freaking links....



terranMarine said:


> Chinese are nationalistic just as everybody of every nation. The degree might vary and there are always those who don't care about politics, same with Chinese. But i disagree with you that China is the same as the US. You should know that China with a history of 5000 years as a civilization state hardly had the expansion drift like the British, Mongols or Europeans. All you have to do is look at the maps of the colonies of these Empires and you can see how far they went. With so many neighbors China only invaded Vietnam in the past and ruled your country for a very long time until Vietnam gained independence.



This is not because China is benevolent but rather I believe there are 2 main factors. China always had northern aggressors whether it is the Xiongnu, to Khitan, to Mongolians. to Jurchens/Manchurians. The second factor is that it is hard to reign over millions upon millions of people. China didn't just become the most populous nation recently. It had always been that way. To quote the Three Kingdoms, "The empire, long divided, must unite; long united, must divide. Thus it has ever been." It isn't easy to please 2 to 3 people much less millions and millions people. During the time when everyone is fed and that there is peace, and everyone happy. But when there are natural disaster, people are starving and unsatisfied , there will be unrest. Up course, usually dynasty rise and fall is also due to people in power is unsatisfied with what they have. But when the empire had a period of peace and flourish, it will turn to expansion.

This was China. (initially I have a picture of Xia and Shang dynasty) 

compare to USA (meh initially I have a link to a USA map with all the Native American countries and tribes)

The China of today comprise of many many nations like that of the United states comprise of many many Native American countries. If you don't know where Vietnam was, let me tell you. Look at where the Burmese people used to live. 

Google Van Lang and Nanyue.

If you can see there, Vietnam is where China's most southern tip was. So it would made sense that the people who first navigate South China Sea would be the Austronesian peoples that include the ancestors of the Philippines, Malaysia, Indonesia, the ancient Champa kingdom, etc.

For each of the 55 ethnic minorities in China, there are ancient countries and kingdoms associate with them.

Zhuang- google Zhuang history
Nanzhao/Dali (the Bai people)- Yes I know Dali is conquered by the Mongolians but I don't believe the Bai people ever recover their own state after. There are plenty other examples like MinYue. Or even Taiwan and the Taiwanese aborigines, though their story is a bit more complicated.

EDIT: I was going to actually find out each one of the ethnic minority but it gonna take forever. Even during the warring states and Autumn Spring period, how many of those states are actually all han Chinese. 

The sad part is some of our ancestor's remnant in term of archeology are in China's land right now. 



> Today Australia and America are ruled by people whose ancestors came from EU and the American foreign policies with its hegemony characteristics are no better than the Europeans back in those days, and i haven't even talked about slavery.



I think our viet identity really boil down to one thing over the 2 millennia is that we try really really really hard not to become Chinese. One of the biggest China's practices back in the day is cultural genocide. The Americans are extremely guilty about this one with the Native Americans. And the Manchurian kinda did this to the Han Chinese for a while. Although the Chinese didn't go as far as White people did, but I wonder if history turn out differently would they?? Sinocentrism is very much similar to the racist attitude that a lot of white racists have. A chinese just tell me the other day that the viet should thank China for bringing them out of barbarian and tribal phase. That is the same excuses that old colonist power give. That is the same rhetoric that some conservatives would say to black people over slavery. But how would you know if you never give that country a chance. I took this from wiki, "The history of Vietnam is one of the longest continuous histories in the world, with archaeological findings showing hominid settlements as far back as around half a million years ago and a cultural history of around 20,000 years. Ancient Vietnam was home to some of the world's earliest civilizations and societies—making them one of the world's first people who practiced agriculture." Our history may not be as old as the Chinese but we had deep root in history. If it wasn't for 1000 years of imperialism, couple hundred years of colonialism, and decades and decades of continuous warfare, Vietnam could been a very powerful regional power and no less than that of South Korea and Japan.



> I understand your worries for Vietnam but the border conflict between China and Vientam has already been solved. The only disputes left lies in SCS where other SE Asian countries also claim sovereignty of certain islands/shoals. I will not debate about sovereignty of these islands, it's pointless as you can tell by now. China's goals related to sovereignty are crystal clear: reducing American influence in SCS, gettng Taiwan back, Diaoyu island and dealing with the border conflict with India.



Thank you for your post. At least this time around, there sound like some empathy between 2 people of different nationality. I really wish there is a NATO among ASEAN, and India getting a bit stronger to balance out China and USA in the region. But if you think the conflicts will stop there. It won't, China needs fuel. An economy of a billion people is not easy to manage. China had jeopardize its natural environment and now its image among ASEAN just to able to provide jobs for people and fueling the economy. Unless China mastered alternative energy, conflict will still arise. This is one thing I actually respect China over the USA, although it trashed its environment out of necessities. But China always think about the future and invest heavily on alternative energy. While our freaking politicians still argue over global warming.


----------



## Grand Historian

liubang said:


> The China of today comprise of many many nations like that of the United states comprise of many many Native American countries. If you don't know where Vietnam was, let me tell you. Look at where the Burmese people used to live.


Not really,ever since the Qin-Han dynasty there was a concept of one "China" under an Emperor,efforts to revive Zhou era feudalism ie Rebellion of the 7 states were crushed.

That is the reason why there are no efforts to establish individual state today ie there are no acts of Chu,Zhao,Qin separatism.



liubang said:


> Google Van Lang and Nanyue.


Van Lang doesn't exist,the first text to mention it was the Taiping Yulan written thousands of years after it supposed founding date.

Furthermore there is no archaeological backing for the Van Lang myth.

The Au Lac state is what Vietnamese claim heritage from so how can Nanyue be Vietnamese?

Refer to my earlier thread for a general FAQ.
Vietnamese nationalist fabrications 



liubang said:


> For each of the 55 ethnic minorities in China, there are ancient countries and kingdoms associate with them.


No there isn't, projecting a Han or minority identity on past states is simply erroneous as the ancients did not have the modern day perception of nationality/ethnicity.

Whether the outlying states of Chu,Wu,Yue,Shu and Ba identified with Sinitic states of the Central Plains is up to debate,rather the elite of these semi-barbaric states were most likely Sinicized or of Sinitic origin while the bulk of the population was multiethnic.


----------



## liubang

Grand Historian said:


> Not really,ever since the Qin-Han dynasty there was a concept of one "China" under an Emperor,efforts to revive Zhou era feudalism ie Rebellion of the 7 states were crushed.
> 
> That is the reason why there are no efforts to establish individual state today ie there are no acts of Chu,Zhao,Qin separatism.



Same shit as manifest destiny. Even if I give you China is Qin and Han. The current China encompassed still many ethnic kingdoms since the Han dynasty. China currently probably 2 to 3 times Han dynasty. There are separatist movements since the Han dynasty and there are still now. 



> Van Lang doesn't exist,the first text to mention it was the Taiping Yulan written thousands of years after it supposed founding date.
> 
> Furthermore there is no archaeological backing for the Van Lang myth.
> 
> The Au Lac state is what Vietnamese claim heritage from so how can Nanyue be Vietnamese?



Don't know what your point is from the overall of this thread nor how is it addressing my point of the post. Nanyue may not be vietnamese but is vietnamese as how the Chinese claimed the Qing dynasty is Chinese. Or how they try to rewrite history and claim Genghis Khan is Chinese. I don't need to refer back to your thread. Western historians had said vietnamese historians do not particularly have a truth perspective but rather a nationalistic perspective. They try too hard to tie ancient history to that of vietnamese history. Dong Son culture may not even belong to the Kinh Vietnamese. Likewise, whatever ancient craps that are found in China may not necessarily stem from the ancient Han Chinese. I don't think there is a strong enough link to said all those countries back during Spring Autumn are all HAN CHINESE. My point still stand. China was a tiny country. Its southern border changed all the time. Taiwan wasn't even populated by Han Chinese at one point. How can it claimed that it had navigate South China Sea much more so than the ancient Austronesian peoples.

I am a seeker of truth. What I can say is that the Viet did well to kept themselves separate from the Chinese and not just one of the 55 minorities in China. The trend of nationalism and tying identity to history past whether if there is kennel of truth or not just explain out identity. It is no more absurd than many things the chinese believe in ages past.

But what is your motive?? Trying to discredit every other points I have by bringing this up? Or are you trying to get me to admit what a shameful fake *** our history is? Those shit doesn't matter. Tran Hung Dao, Quang Trung, Ngo Quyen, Trung sisters, lady Trieu, Le Loi. As long as those are real it doesn't matter. I hope you are not baiting me. 

But seemed you are someone I could learn from because you have at least proven yourself to me that you know what you are talking about. So I will ask the expert, how many kingdoms, dynasty, nations, and states that aren't started by Han Chinese that is right now in the current space that is People's Republic of China? I don't meant anything by this. It actually an intriguing thought for me and it just started since I began the conversation on this forum. To be honest, I was one of those ignorant person who don't think about these things prior to this.

And what is Han Chinese? When it came to existence? And what is Vietnamese according to your truth?

=============================================

Edit: I am debating if I am should entertain you further. Because it kinda derailing the topic of this thread, also if you don't know, I am more interested in current events. I only delve into this because a lot of people on the net seemed to think China had always been a benevolent, peaceful country that like never never into expansionism.


----------



## liubang

===================================================

PEOPLE I am new, I don't know how to send private messages. Anyhow, Grand Historian should send me a private message or something, I want your opinions on a few things just for the sake of my own education.

================================================
*terranMarine*- I believe this is on topic since Taiwan does matter to South China Sea. You mentioned that one of China's current goal is to get Taiwan back. How does China will go about this? Not straight up invasion right?? Is it planning to use some sort of democratic process or some sort of populace movement?? And how far do you think that is the reality that Taiwan will be back in China's hand. Look like a lot of Westerners are regretting giving HongKong back.


----------



## Nike

Grand Historian said:


> Not really,ever since the Qin-Han dynasty there was a concept of one "China" under an Emperor,efforts to revive Zhou era feudalism ie Rebellion of the 7 states were crushed.
> 
> That is the reason why there are no efforts to establish individual state today ie there are no acts of Chu,Zhao,Qin separatism.
> 
> 
> Van Lang doesn't exist,the first text to mention it was the Taiping Yulan written thousands of years after it supposed founding date.
> 
> Furthermore there is no archaeological backing for the Van Lang myth.
> 
> The Au Lac state is what Vietnamese claim heritage from so how can Nanyue be Vietnamese?
> 
> Refer to my earlier thread for a general FAQ.
> Vietnamese nationalist fabrications
> 
> 
> No there isn't, projecting a Han or minority identity on past states is simply erroneous as the ancients did not have the modern day perception of nationality/ethnicity.
> 
> Whether the outlying states of Chu,Wu,Yue,Shu and Ba identified with Sinitic states of the Central Plains is up to debate,rather the elite of these semi-barbaric states were most likely Sinicized or of Sinitic origin while the bulk of the population was multiethnic.



We are discussing about South China Sea matter not about Ethnicity history or old man stories from you, **** off



liubang said:


> Same shit as manifest destiny. Even if I give you China is Qin and Han. The current China encompassed still many ethnic kingdoms since the Han dynasty. China currently probably 2 to 3 times Han dynasty. There are separatist movements since the Han dynasty and there are still now.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't know what your point is from the overall of this thread nor how is it addressing my point of the post. Nanyue may not be vietnamese but is vietnamese as how the Chinese claimed the Qing dynasty is Chinese. Or how they try to rewrite history and claim Genghis Khan is Chinese. I don't need to refer back to your thread. Western historians had said vietnamese historians do not particularly have a truth perspective but rather a nationalistic perspective. They try too hard to tie ancient history to that of vietnamese history. Dong Son culture may not even belong to the Kinh Vietnamese. Likewise, whatever ancient craps that are found in China may not necessarily stem from the ancient Han Chinese. I don't think there is a strong enough link to said all those countries back during Spring Autumn are all HAN CHINESE. My point still stand. China was a tiny country. Its southern border changed all the time. Taiwan wasn't even populated by Han Chinese at one point. How can it claimed that it had navigate South China Sea much more so than the ancient Austronesian peoples.
> 
> I am a seeker of truth. What I can say is that the Viet did well to kept themselves separate from the Chinese and not just one of the 55 minorities in China. The trend of nationalism and tying identity to history past whether if there is kennel of truth or not just explain out identity. It is no more absurd than many things the chinese believe in ages past.
> 
> But what is your motive?? Trying to discredit every other points I have by bringing this up? Or are you trying to get me to admit what a shameful fake *** our history is? Those shit doesn't matter. Tran Hung Dao, Quang Trung, Ngo Quyen, Trung sisters, lady Trieu, Le Loi. As long as those are real it doesn't matter. I hope you are not baiting me.
> 
> But seemed you are someone I could learn from because you have at least proven yourself to me that you know what you are talking about. So I will ask the expert, how many kingdoms, dynasty, nations, and states that aren't started by Han Chinese that is right now in the current space that is People's Republic of China? I don't meant anything by this. It actually an intriguing thought for me and it just started since I began the conversation on this forum. To be honest, I was one of those ignorant person who don't think about these things prior to this.
> 
> And what is Han Chinese? When it came to existence? And what is Vietnamese according to your truth?
> 
> =============================================
> 
> Edit: I am debating if I am should entertain you further. Because it kinda derailing the topic of this thread, also if you don't know, I am more interested in current events. I only delve into this because a lot of people on the net seemed to think China had always been a benevolent, peaceful country that like never never into expansionism.



You too, you are derailing this topics. Stops your yaps about Vietnam ethnicity or so on


----------



## liubang

madokafc said:


> We are discussing about South China Sea matter not about Ethnicity history or old man stories from you, **** off
> 
> You too, you are derailing this topics. Stops your yaps about Vietnam ethnicity or so on



I look at your past posts on this thread. It is pretty much toilet materials. Hmm the best point from you probably was "Indonesians should shut the **** up about this topics." But that you, I wouldn't go that route and I do think Indonesian should play a greater role in the area. But do steer the topic because indeed, we were off topic. Considering probably out of 469 pages, probably 300 pages are trash materials just back and forth comparing e-penis. Actually never mind, I am done with this forum (happy now??). I am going back to debate people on youtube. Also, I hope madokafc's period is not acting up or something. 

Vietnamese and Chinese people stop with ya's pointless flame war. The anti China riot actually happened at my childhood home (Binh Duong). I know the awful working conditions of the vietnamese workers in those foreign factories very well whether it is a Chinese, Taiwanese, and or South Korean. I could see why it happen the way it happened and why the workers don't discriminate who they were targeting. It is a truly regrettable situation. Though, I am kinda happy if it meant Vietnam will do less business with China in the future. Hopefully, with more discussion, there will be more empathy. As for madokafc, go suck a big fucking dick or something. 

/done....


----------



## Nike

liubang said:


> I look at your past posts on this thread. It is pretty much toilet materials. Hmm the best point from you probably was "Indonesians should shut the **** up about this topics." But that you, I wouldn't go that route and I do think Indonesian should play a greater role in the area. But do steer the topic because indeed, we were off topic. Considering probably out of 469 pages, probably 300 pages are trash materials just back and forth comparing e-penis. Actually never mind, I am done with this forum (happy now??). I am going back to debate people on youtube. Also, I hope madokafc's period is not acting up or something.
> 
> Vietnamese and Chinese people stop with ya's pointless flame war. The anti China riot actually happened at my childhood home (Binh Duong). I know the awful working conditions of the vietnamese workers in those foreign factories very well whether it is a Chinese, Taiwanese, and or South Korean. I could see why it happen the way it happened and why the workers don't discriminate who they were targeting. It is a truly regrettable situation. Though, I am kinda happy if it meant Vietnam will do less business with China in the future. Hopefully, with more discussion, there will be more empathy. As for madokafc, go suck a big fucking dick or something.
> 
> /done....



hey are you homo who got your period times? i don't know Vietnam got a pussy guy like you


----------



## Grand Historian

madokafc said:


> We are discussing about South China Sea matter not about Ethnicity history or old man stories from you, **** off


Someone must have woke up on the wrong side of bed


----------



## Grand Historian

liubang said:


> Same shit as manifest destiny. Even if I give you China is Qin and Han. The current China encompassed still many ethnic kingdoms since the Han dynasty. China currently probably 2 to 3 times Han dynasty. There are separatist movements since the Han dynasty and there are still now.


And where is Qin,Zhao,Chu etc today?

Again how can we apply an modern day ethnic label on extinct people?

Reminds me of Vietnamese claiming Baiyue as solely Vietnamese.

There aren't any separatist movements save for some Uighurs and Tibetans which are hardly representative of the majority Han or other large minorities ie Manchu,Hui,Miao,Zhuang etc.



liubang said:


> Don't know what your point is from the overall of this thread nor how is it addressing my point of the post. Nanyue may not be vietnamese but is vietnamese as how the Chinese claimed the Qing dynasty is Chinese.


You analogy for Nanyue and Qing doesn't fit.

1.Both Nanyue and Qing used the same title ie Huangdi which is a Chinese concept.
2.Both Nanyue and Qing established its capital in modern day China.
3.Both Nanyue and Qing adopted Chinese scripts,bureaucracy,culture.
4.Qing followed the standard procedure of Chinese dynasties ie claiming the mandate of heaven and making sacrifices to Tian.
5.Zhao Tuo did not claim ancestry or legitimacy from Au Lac.
6.Both Nanyue and Qing had a large Sinitic speaking population.
7.Majority of the population of Nanyue was Tai Kadai speakers not Vietnamese.



liubang said:


> Or how they try to rewrite history and claim Genghis Khan is Chinese.


This isn't taught in either the PRC or ROC.



liubang said:


> I don't need to refer back to your thread. Western historians had said vietnamese historians do not particularly have a truth perspective but rather a nationalistic perspective. They try too hard to tie ancient history to that of vietnamese history. Dong Son culture may not even belong to the Kinh Vietnamese. Likewise, whatever ancient craps that are found in China may not necessarily stem from the ancient Han Chinese. I don't think there is a strong enough link to said all those countries back during Spring Autumn are all HAN CHINESE. My point still stand. China was a tiny country. Its southern border changed all the time. Taiwan wasn't even populated by Han Chinese at one point. How can it claimed that it had navigate South China Sea much more so than the ancient Austronesian peoples.


Dong Son was distinctly Mongoloid while the previous inhabitants of Vietnam were Australoid showing that their ancestors came from Southern China,this doesn't mean that Vietnamese have any rights towards modern day China though.

I don't put ethnic labels on neolithic cultures either,they were most likely ancestral to many modern day ethnicities.

There is no such thing as ancient Han Chinese rather the ancients probably though themselves as Hua/Xia/x country.

The vast majority of states were founded by Sinitic or Sinicized people the exception are small states such as Zhongsan or Lai.



liubang said:


> I am a seeker of truth. What I can say is that the Viet did well to kept themselves separate from the Chinese and not just one of the 55 minorities in China. The trend of nationalism and tying identity to history past whether if there is kennel of truth or not just explain out identity. It is no more absurd than many things the chinese believe in ages past.
> 
> But what is your motive?? Trying to discredit every other points I have by bringing this up? Or are you trying to get me to admit what a shameful fake *** our history is? Those shit doesn't matter. Tran Hung Dao, Quang Trung, Ngo Quyen, Trung sisters, lady Trieu, Le Loi. As long as those are real it doesn't matter. I hope you are not baiting me.


This eternal struggle rhetoric by Vietnamese is nothing more than a farce,linguistic studies have shown that the ancient/medieval Vietnamese(or the elite) spoke a variant of Ancient Southwestern Chinese,Vietnamese rebelled when there were unfair rulers but under men such as Shi Xie the region was quiet. The dynasties of Ly,Tran and Ho all had "Chinese" ancestors showing that ethnic Han were able to assimilate.

Ethnicities are all social constructs there maybe a blood component depending on who you ask.

I'm sick and tired of Vietnamese members claiming Southern China as their lost homeland and using a myth that originated from fairy tales in an attempt to prove it. ie Xich Quy/Van Lang

Vietnamese historical figures are real whether they identify with modern day Kinh Vietnamese is different.



liubang said:


> But seemed you are someone I could learn from because you have at least proven yourself to me that you know what you are talking about. So I will ask the expert, how many kingdoms, dynasty, nations, and states that aren't started by Han Chinese that is right now in the current space that is People's Republic of China? I don't meant anything by this. It actually an intriguing thought for me and it just started since I began the conversation on this forum. To be honest, I was one of those ignorant person who don't think about these things prior to this.
> 
> And what is Han Chinese? When it came to existence? And what is Vietnamese according to your truth?
> 
> =============================================
> 
> Edit: I am debating if I am should entertain you further. Because it kinda derailing the topic of this thread, also if you don't know, I am more interested in current events. I only delve into this because a lot of people on the net seemed to think China had always been a benevolent, peaceful country that like never never into expansionism.


Whether or not a ethnic Han or minority sits on the dragon throne doesn't matter to me,they viewed themselves of ruler of Tianxia and Zhongguo.

Han ethnoym originated during the Northern Wei as an ethnic slur or a term for the Sinitic speakers. 

The first time Han included Southern Han was during the Ming.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## terranMarine

liubang said:


> ===================================================
> 
> PEOPLE I am new, I don't know how to send private messages. Anyhow, Grand Historian should send me a private message or something, I want your opinions on a few things just for the sake of my own education.
> 
> ================================================
> *terranMarine*- I believe this is on topic since Taiwan does matter to South China Sea. You mentioned that one of China's current goal is to get Taiwan back. How does China will go about this? Not straight up invasion right?? Is it planning to use some sort of democratic process or some sort of populace movement?? And how far do you think that is the reality that Taiwan will be back in China's hand. Look like a lot of Westerners are regretting giving HongKong back.



I believe you have to make at least 10.000 posts before you can send private message.

How China planning to get TW back? Are you serious when you suggests democratic process or movements? You clearly don't understand China's resolve on getting the island back. The answer is very simple, whatever it takes. There can be no doubt we will switch to invasion if all peaceful methods are fruitless. We have over 1000 missiles pointing at the island, a rapid Naval buildup since Clinton sent an Aircraft Carrier to warn China during the last Taiwan Strait crisis when TW was trying to get independent. In the end TW didn't accomplish anything and triggered China to ramp up PLAN's development. Until then Taiwanese still have time to re-think of a peaceful unification.

And no, Westerners cannot regret giving HK back. The British had a 99 year lease of HK since 1898. England had no choice but to return it back to China in 97. In the 80s Thatcher wanted to extend leasing HK, Deng taught her a lesson and the rest is history.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Rechoice

Grand Historian said:


> And where is Qin,Zhao,Chu etc today?
> 
> Again how can we apply an modern day ethnic label on extinct people?
> 
> Reminds me of Vietnamese claiming Baiyue as solely Vietnamese.
> 
> There aren't any separatist movements save for some Uighurs and Tibetans which are hardly representative of the majority Han or other large minorities ie Manchu,Hui,Miao,Zhuang etc.
> 
> 
> You analogy for Nanyue and Qing doesn't fit.
> 
> 1.Both Nanyue and Qing used the same title ie Huangdi which is a Chinese concept.
> 2.Both Nanyue and Qing established its capital in modern day China.
> 3.Both Nanyue and Qing adopted Chinese scripts,bureaucracy,culture.
> 4.Qing followed the standard procedure of Chinese dynasties ie claiming the mandate of heaven and making sacrifices to Tian.
> 5.Zhao Tuo did not claim ancestry or legitimacy from Au Lac.
> 6.Both Nanyue and Qing had a large Sinitic speaking population.
> 7.Majority of the population of Nanyue was Tai Kadai speakers not Vietnamese.
> 
> 
> This isn't taught in either the PRC or ROC.
> 
> 
> Dong Son was distinctly Mongoloid while the previous inhabitants of Vietnam were Australoid showing that their ancestors came from Southern China,this doesn't mean that Vietnamese have any rights towards modern day China though.
> 
> I don't put ethnic labels on neolithic cultures either,they were most likely ancestral to many modern day ethnicities.
> 
> There is no such thing as ancient Han Chinese rather the ancients probably though themselves as Hua/Xia/x country.
> 
> The vast majority of states were founded by Sinitic or Sinicized people the exception are small states such as Zhongsan or Lai.
> 
> 
> This eternal struggle rhetoric by Vietnamese is nothing more than a farce,linguistic studies have shown that the ancient/medieval Vietnamese(or the elite) spoke a variant of Ancient Southwestern Chinese,Vietnamese rebelled when there were unfair rulers but under men such as Shi Xie the region was quiet. The dynasties of Ly,Tran and Ho all had "Chinese" ancestors showing that ethnic Han were able to assimilate.
> 
> Ethnicities are all social constructs there maybe a blood component depending on who you ask.
> 
> I'm sick and tired of Vietnamese members claiming Southern China as their lost homeland and using a myth that originated from fairy tales in an attempt to prove it. ie Xich Quy/Van Lang
> 
> Vietnamese historical figures are real whether they identify with modern day Kinh Vietnamese is different.
> 
> 
> Whether or not a ethnic Han or minority sits on the dragon throne doesn't matter to me,they viewed themselves of ruler of Tianxia and Zhongguo.
> 
> Han ethnoym originated during the Northern Wei as an ethnic slur or a term for the Sinitic speakers.
> 
> The first time Han included Southern Han was during the Ming.



You repeat again and again such propaganda, it made to brainwash chinese people..

Qin and Han Dynasty of Han people from North China, they conquered South China, Southern Chinese, Yue people are sinized. It is history of China.

Why Wu Yue, Min Yue, Nan Yue, Ye Lang, Dian Guo, Nan Chao etc ... is disappeared ?

Vietnam regained independence from China. It is history of Vietnam.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoXilai

Chinese and Vietnamese members here does not accepts opinions of each others so all of you will argue until The Sun becomes a blackhole without a consent. Do not use historical evidences here, they have not any effect!

"Do more，talk less。" - @cirr


----------



## Grand Historian

Rechoice said:


> You repeat again and again such propaganda, it made to brainwash chinese people..
> 
> Qin and Han Dynasty of Han people from North China, they conquered South China, Southern Chinese, Yue people are sinized. It is history of China.
> 
> Why Wu Yue, Min Yue, Nan Yue, Ye Lang, Dian Guo, Nan Chao etc ... is disappeared ?
> 
> Vietnam regained independence from China. It is history of Vietnam.


Southern Han are a mix of intruding Northern Han males and native ethnicties neither of which have anything to do with Kinh Vietnamese.

All you can do is spew the same lies over and over again I wonder if you would actually contribute to this forum rather than troll.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Edison Chen

Vertical version of China map, a clear version.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Rechoice

Edison Chen said:


> View attachment 36236
> 
> 
> Vertical version of China map, a clear version.



China territory is ended at Hainan Island, 








Grand Historian said:


> Southern Han are a mix of intruding Northern Han males and native ethnicties neither of which have anything to do with Kinh Vietnamese.
> 
> All you can do is spew the same lies over and over again I wonder if you would actually contribute to this forum rather than troll.



Hoklo people is Min Yue, no Han.
Han people speak Mandarine, they do not understand hokkien language.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Grand Historian

@Hu Songshan Rechoice is trolling Southern Han Chinese again.


----------



## Rechoice

Grand Historian said:


> @Hu Songshan Rechoice is trolling Southern Han Chinese again.



don't cry bro. It is truth of China population based on history. Chinese classification in to Southern Han and Northern Han is made by Chinese and scholars in the world.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Grand Historian

Rechoice said:


> don't cry bro. It is truth of China population based on history. Chinese classification in to Southern Han and Northern Han is made by Chinese and scholars in the world.


I'm not going to repeat the same facts I've posted numerous times,you are clearly unable to digest genetic,linguistical,textual and archaeological evidence.

I suppose Southern Vietnamese are fake Vietnamese because they live in the lands of Chams and Khmers

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## terranMarine

Grand Historian said:


> I'm not going to repeat the same facts I've posted numerous times,you are clearly unable to digest genetic,linguistical,textual and archaeological evidence.
> 
> I suppose Southern Vietnamese are fake Vietnamese because they live in the lands of Chams and Khmers



That is why it's useless having a discussion or providing proof to these wackos. Regardless maps/history/articles only their versions are right and the stuff we post are fake. In the meantime our rigs keep on coming

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## EastSea

Grand Historian said:


> I'm not going to repeat the same facts I've posted numerous times,you are clearly unable to digest genetic,linguistical,textual and archaeological evidence.
> 
> I suppose Southern Vietnamese are fake Vietnamese because they live in the lands of Chams and Khmers



we are Southern Vietnamese, were Yuechang people in native. we speak same language with northern Vietnamese. Its different in China

Champa people is Malayo. They were new comers in coast of Vietnam. Indo-Chine peninsula, there is native land of Mon/Khmer/Muong/Khmu/Viet people who speak Mon/Khmer languages..



BoXilai said:


> Chinese and Vietnamese members here does not accepts opinions of each others so all of you will argue until The Sun becomes a blackhole without a consent. Do not use historical evidences here, they have not any effect!
> 
> "Do more，talk less。" - @cirr



but don't make a idiot things.


----------



## Grand Historian

terranMarine said:


> That is why it's useless having a discussion or providing proof to these wackos. Regardless maps/history/articles only their versions are right and the stuff we post are fake. In the meantime our rigs keep on coming


You're right trying to educate them is like breaking a rock with an egg.

They can masturbate that Vietnam was the origin of everything but nothing will change reality.



EastSea said:


> we are Southern Vietnamese, were Yuechang people in native. we speak same language with northern Vietnamese. Its different in China
> 
> Champa people is Malayo. They were new comers in coast of Vietnam. Indo-Chine peninsula, there is native land of Mon/Khmer/Muong/Khmu/Viet people who speak Mon/Khmer languages..


Yuechang was originally not in Vietnam read the original text

It doesn't matter if someone speaks Mon/Khmer languages Khmers,Munda etc don't identify with Kinh.

Are you seriously going to claim that that that all Mon/Khmers are Vietnamese?

While Hakka,Yue,Gan,Xiang,Min,Wu,Jin and Guan all identify as Han.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Edison Chen

Rechoice said:


> China territory is ended at Hainan Island,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hoklo people is Min Yue, no Han.
> Han people speak Mandarine, they do not understand hokkien language.



Sorry bro, China's territory range stretches far beyond yours. Take a lesson, my son.


----------



## EastSea

Grand Historian said:


> You're right trying to educate them is like breaking a rock with an egg.
> 
> They can masturbate that Vietnam was the origin of everything but nothing will change reality.
> 
> 
> Yuechang was originally not in Vietnam read the original text
> 
> It doesn't matter if someone speaks Mon/Khmer languages Khmers,Munda etc don't identify with Kinh.
> 
> Are you seriously going to claim that that that all Mon/Khmers are Vietnamese?
> 
> While Hakka,Yue,Gan,Xiang,Min,Wu,Jin and Guan all identify as Han.



we speak mon/Khmer language, but we identified in to different ethnic groups: Khmer, Mon, Munda, Khmu, Muong/Trai and Viet/Kinh.

same as in China Hakka,Yue,Gan,Xiang,Min,Wu,Jin and Guan. It is people in different ethnic groups.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Rechoice

Edison Chen said:


> Sorry bro, China's territory range stretches far beyond yours. Take a lesson, my son.
> 
> View attachment 36266



It is fake map, modified recently by chinese.

It is true map of China, Mr. Xi is received from Madam Merkel.

Image courtesy of the John H.W. Stuckenberg Map Collection, Special Collections/Musselman Library, Gettysburg College
A map of China from the 1700s by cartographer Jean Baptiste Bourguignon d’Anville.











What madam Merkel siad to Mr. Xi "China territory is ended at Hainan Island."

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Edison Chen

Rechoice said:


> It is fake map, modified recently by chinese.
> 
> It is true map of China, Mr. Xi is received from Madam Merkel.
> 
> Image courtesy of the John H.W. Stuckenberg Map Collection, Special Collections/Musselman Library, Gettysburg College
> A map of China from the 1700s by cartographer Jean Baptiste Bourguignon d’Anville.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What madam Merkel siad to Mr. Xi "China territory is ended at Hainan Island."



It's not fake, it's official map, recently published.


----------



## Rechoice

Edison Chen said:


> It's not fake, it's official map, recently published.



China is country it made fake products, included " offical " DOCUMENT IS FAKE.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Grand Historian

EastSea said:


> we speak mon/Khmer language, but we identified in to different ethnic groups: Khmer, Mon, Munda, Khmu, Muong/Trai and Viet/Kinh.
> 
> same as in China Hakka,Yue,Gan,Xiang,Min,Wu,Jin and Guan. It is people in different ethnic groups.


No they don't you liar,they are labeled Han.


----------



## Danny2014

Edison Chen said:


> China is fake, VN is trash, you can only export shrimp and women.


You need to import yourself a new haircut and nose.


----------



## Rechoice

Edison Chen said:


> China is fake, VN is trash, you can only export shrimp and women.



china is country of human traffickers. without such minorities from mountainous area, chinese become black skin and China is part of Africa. Chinese Men with Black Women & African Wives – chinaSMACK

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Edison Chen

Rechoice said:


> china is country of human traffickers. without such minorities from mountainous area, chinese become black skin and China is part of Africa. Chinese Men with Black Women & African Wives – chinaSMACK



VN people as racist as usual.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## hurt




----------



## Rechoice

hurt said:


> View attachment 36383
> 
> View attachment 36384
> View attachment 36385



It is evidence of chinese aggressors provocative activities in our sea territory.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## hurt

Rechoice said:


> It is evidence of chinese aggressors provocative activities in our sea territory.


It is the fate of Vietnam aggressors.


----------



## Rechoice

hurt said:


> It is the fate of Vietnam aggressors.



chinese invaders will be punished like your ancestors in the past.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Malaya

*China Moves Prompt Closer Ties Among Neighbors*
June 25, 2014 

The Philippines this week backed the Japanese prime minister's push for a broader military mandate - the latest move among China's maritime neighbors to unite against China's increasing assertiveness in the East and South China Seas.

As Beijing continues to assert a vast territorial claim in the South China Sea, Japan, the Philippines and Vietnam are strengthening their military and diplomatic bonds.

Ely Ratner, of the U.S.-based Center for a New American Security, says the three are overlooking historic conflicts with each other in reaction to China's sustained aggressive reach.

"There's no doubt that countries in the region are collectively spooked by what they're seeing as an increased pattern of Chinese assertiveness from the East China Sea down through the South China Sea," he said.

*Regional Reactions*

It's been a tense past two months. In May, China moved an oil rig into waters that Vietnam claims. A few weeks later, Vietnamese and Philippine troops spent a day socializing on a disputed island - neither asserting dominance, but both unified in their resistance to China's encroaching power.

Then, during a state visit to Japan earlier this week, Philippine President Benigno Aquino publicly supported Prime Minister Shinzo Abe's plan to broaden the Japanese military mandate to allow Tokyo to aid allies who are attacked.

"Japan is a strategic partner of the Philippines," Aquino said. "It is thus incumbent upon us to have continuous dialogue as we jointly face the changing dynamics of our regional security environment."

To expand the military’s mandate, Abe must first get his party’s coalition partner New Komeito on board.

But nearly two-thirds of Japanese voters oppose a reinterpretation of Article 9 of the Constitution, according to a poll released in April by Japan's leading newspaper _Asahi Shimbun_.

“There is a problem I think Prime Minister Abe has in selling this to his own people, and then of course explaining it to the region,” says Bonnie Glaser, a senior adviser at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington.

Meanwhile Tokyo, along with the United States, has pledged to help Vietnam and the Philippines upgrade their maritime patrol ships. 

*No Backing Down*

But China shows no signs of backing down. At meeting in Myanmar in May, Defense Minister Chang Wanquan told regional counterparts his country wants a negotiated solution in the South China Sea, but multilateralism can't solve the problem.

And that position isn't likely to change, according to Glaser.

"The Chinese believe that other nations are so economically dependent on China that these other nations will not directly confront China or not do so for a long period and at the end of the day will accommodate to Chinese interests so the Chinese think that they have time on their side," she said.

Ratner says Beijing may be miscalculating.

"I think people often think, 'Well, war isn't possible in Asia or conflict isn't possible because these economies are so interdependent,’" he said. "But when it comes to these passionate political issues and nationalism, often those considerations get thrown out the door."

After all, Ratner noted, Germany and England were vital trading partners before World War I.

China Moves Prompt Closer Ties Among Neighbors


----------



## tbquestion

Rechoice said:


> It is evidence of chinese aggressors provocative activities in our sea territory.


commies vs commies
Non-commies countries: "Who cares?"


----------



## tbquestion

Rechoice said:


> chinese invaders will be punished like your ancestors in the past.


If I had a cent for every time you said this, I would be a billionaire by now.


----------



## tbquestion

tbquestion said:


> If I had a cent for every time you said this, I would be a billionaire by now.



Thats like saying Germany will invade France again. Not likely.



hurt said:


> View attachment 36383
> 
> View attachment 36384
> View attachment 36385


Wow. Is this what happen to the might Viet Congs that defeat BOTH the American and the French armies. This can't be true..sniff.. sniff.


----------



## Rechoice

tbquestion said:


> If I had a cent for every time you said this, I would be a billionaire by now.



get lost, 5 cent commentator, chinese mestizo !

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

*Beihaiqiu 117* delivered on 26.06.2014 at HPS：







one of 22 such ships（constructed and planned）。

*Nanhaiqiu 117*






*Donghaiqiu 117*






Good for intended collisions in the high seas。


----------



## Rechoice

cirr said:


> *Beihaiqiu 117* delivered on 26.06.2014 at HPS：
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> one of 22 such ships（constructed and planned）。
> 
> *Nanhaiqiu 117*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Donghaiqiu 117*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good for intended collisions in the high seas。

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Aepsilons

Rechoice said:


>




LOL. Aww, how cute. 

*New vertical Chinese map gives greater emphasis to South China Sea claims*

China has unveiled a new official map of the country giving greater emphasis to its claims on the South China Sea, making the disputed waters and its numerous islets and reefs more clearly seem like national territory.

Previous maps published by the government already include China's claims to most of the South China Sea, but in a little box normally in a bottom corner to enable the rest of the country to fit on the map.

The new, longer map dispenses with the box, and shows continental China along with its self-declared sea boundary in the South China Sea - stretching right down to the coasts of Malaysia, Vietnam and the Philippines - on one complete map.

"The islands of the South China Sea on the traditional map of China are shown in a cut-away box, and readers cannot fully, directly know the full map of China," the ruling Communist Party's official People's Daily said on its website.

Old maps make the South China Sea's islands appear more like an appendage rather than an integral part of the country, which the new map makes "obvious with a single glance", the report added.

"This vertical map of China has important meaning for promoting citizens' better understanding of ... maintaining (our) maritime rights and territorial integrity," an unnamed official with the map's publishers told the newspaper.

China's foreign ministry said people should not read too much into the issuing of the new map.

"The goal is to serve the Chinese public. As for the intentions, I think there is no need to make too much of any association here," ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying told a daily news briefing.

"China's position on the South China Sea issue is consistent and extremely clear. Our stance has not changed."

Beijing claims about 90 percent of the South China Sea, but parts of the potentially energy-rich waters are also subject to claims by the Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan.

Philippine Foreign Ministry spokesman Charles Jose said the publication of the map showed China's "unreasonably expansive claims" that he said contravened international law.

"And it is precisely such ambitious expansionism that is causing tension in the South China Sea," he told reporters.

Tensions have risen sharply in the region in recent months, especially between China and both Vietnam and the Philippines.

China's positioning of an oil rig in waters claimed by both Beijing and Hanoi last month has lead to rammings at sea between ships from both countries and anti-Chinese violence in Vietnam.


----------



## Malaya

*PH: China map just a ‘drawing’*
INQUIRER
 Thursday, June 26th, 2014






China’s latest published map shows its claim over the South China Sea by marking ten dash lines around the region just off the coasts of Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei, and the Philippines’ islands of Palawan and Luzon. PHOTO sourced from China Daily/ANN

MANILA, Philippines — It’s just a drawing that has no bearing, Malacañang on Thursday said of a new map claiming West Philippine Sea as part of China’s territory.

*“As a whole, to put it simply, they just drew that. All of these drawings have already been superseded by the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea,” *Communications Secretary Herminio Coloma Jr. said in Filipino.


Coloma was referring to a map published by state-run news agency Xinhua marking China’s territory with ten dash lines drawn close to the coasts of Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei and the Philippines’ islands of Palawan and Luzon. The said countries have been at odds with China over maritime and territorial disputes in South China Sea.

Coloma recalled that since the reign of Chiang Kai-shek and the Kuomintang government, the Chinese have been drawing lines to mark territories that are not theirs. He said it was an 11-dash line during that time and was replaced by the nine-dash line in modern times.

*"You can’t base (territorial claims) on a drawing,"* he said.

Coloma affirmed the earlier statement of the Department of Foreign Affairs calling the map reflective of the country’s “ambitious expansionism.”

But amid such actions, Coloma said the government will continue to pursue a peaceful, diplomatic and legal resolution to the problem.

He said the Philippines is still calling for the moratorium of construction in disputed areas and finalizing the Declaration on the Code of Conduct in the South China Sea that will serve as a guide for claimant countries.

Coloma also said they are waiting for the arbitral tribunal’s decision on the memorial submitted by the government, clarifying China’s claims.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Malaya

*Ex-US admiral: 'Equally forceful' Philippines needed in sea row*
By Camille Diola (philstar.com) | June 27, 2014




Dennis Blair, then United States Director of National Intelligence, speaks at the World Affairs Council in Philadelphia in November 2009. *WACPhiladelphia*

*MANILA, Philippines — The Philippines has to stand up to China's gray-zone challenges in the hotly contested South China Sea, instead of only reacting to its behavior.*

Dennis Blair, retired chief of the United States Pacific Command and former Director of National Intelligence, said the Philippines, Japan and Vietnam "can't just sit there" and watch as China encroaches in what they consider sovereign territories.

*"Of course, you need to think them through carefully, but if the Chinese want to play a game of 'I'll poke you here, and I'll poke you there,' then you have to respond and say, 'Game on."* Blair said in an interview with Asahi Shimbun, a transcript of which was posted Wednesday.

*"Japan, the Philippines and Vietnam need to take initiatives of their own and be equally forceful in that space," *the acknowledged Asia expert advised.

Blair said China will keep on forcefully asserting its claims through unilateral declarations, but will not step beyond the "upper limit" of heightening tensions to become a major conflict.

*"On the Chinese side, I think there is a similar sort of a ceiling because China knows that if a major conflict were to occur in the East China Sea or the South China Sea, the effect on China’s economic development would be terrible," *Blair said.

"*Below that limit, though, the Chinese are sitting around, thinking, “Now, what can I do next? Let's see, I can extend the ADIZ (Air Defense Identification Zone), I can declare a new fishing zone, etcetera,*" he added.

Neighboring countries should then take advantage of China's self-imposed limit even as it grows in power and believes it can get its way, Blair said.

Blair, who was in the US Navy for 34 years, urged the Philippines and other claimant states to say, "Wait a minute! These are things that matter to us. These are our interests. Together we are stronger than you are."

"These are not things that we hand over to you just because your [gross domestic product] goes up 10 percent a year," Blair said.

The former admiral admitted that Beijing's increasing might has "worried" him for years knowing that it feels entitled to weaker countries' concessions in the decades-long sea row.

He explained that China looks back at its years as a weaker nation and still remembers Japan's invasion in 1931. Now an Asian powerhouse, China is prepared to use its newfound strength to its advantage.

Still, rival claimants "cannot simply make concessions to a country as it grows in power," Blair believes.

"We have to figure out how to counter those actions," he said.

*The Philippines has taken a "rules-based approach" in dealing the escalating disputes. It has abandoned seemingly futile direct negotiations with China and resorted to filing an arbitration case before the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea.*

China has rejected the third-party settlement as the Manila invests on new military assets for a "minimum credible defense" amid the regional dustup.




*PH gets Singapore backing in sea dispute*
June 25th, 2014

MANILA, Philippines—The Philippines welcomed on Wednesday Singapore’s statement emphasizing the rule of law towards resolving territorial disputes in the South China Sea, reflecting the neighboring city-state’s support for the country’s call to peacefully settle the issue amid escalating tensions with China.

Assistant Secretary Charles Jose, the Department of Foreign Affairs spokesperson, said on Wednesday that Singapore Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong’s comments at a forum in Washington D.C. Tuesday echoed the Philippines’ “battle cry” in pursuing a resolution to the worsening dispute.

*“We welcome statements in support of the peaceful settlement of disputes and the primacy of the rule of law, which is essential for peace, security and stability,” *Jose told the Philippine Daily Inquirer on Wednesday.

“*The call to respect the rule of law has been the battlecry of the Philippines from the beginning,”* he said in a statement sent via text message.

Lee earlier said Tuesday that international law must be the basis of resolving territorial disputes in the South China Sea, a six-way contest involving China, Taiwan and Singapore’s fellow members in the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (Asean), the Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia and Brunei.

Speaking before the Council on Foreign Relations, an American foreign policy think-tank based in the US capital, Lee said that claimant nations must choose the peaceful path instead of the “might is right” approach.

*“I think international law must have a big weight in how disputes are resolved,”* Lee said in response to a question about the dispute, as quoted in a report by the Associated Press.

Lee made such comments amid increasing tensions in the South China Sea, with reclamation work by China in territories within the Philippines’ exclusive economic zone (EEZ), and the biggest claimant nation’s recent brushes with Vietnam in the Paracels.

Such incursions continue while the Philippines pursues an arbitration bid before the United Nations to halt Chinese activity within its EEZ, clarify maritime entitlements in the waters and nullify China’s sweeping nine-dash-line claim covering nearly all of South China Sea.

Earlier this month, Foreign Affairs Secretary Albert del Rosario called for a freeze on provocative activities in the disputed waters, a proposal he hopes to formally make in an upcoming Asean meeting.

Singapore has been supportive of Asean’s efforts to engage China in finalizing a legally binding Code of Conduct (COC) to instill discipline and prevent conflict among claimants pending resolution of the dispute.

The regional bloc has also been calling for strict compliance with the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties, a 2002 non-aggression pact that the Asean is hoping to strengthen through a binding code.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

Nihonjin1051 said:


> LOL. Aww, how cute.
> 
> *New vertical Chinese map gives greater emphasis to South China Sea claims*
> 
> China has unveiled a new official map of the country giving greater emphasis to its claims on the South China Sea, making the disputed waters and its numerous islets and reefs more clearly seem like national territory.
> 
> Previous maps published by the government already include China's claims to most of the South China Sea, but in a little box normally in a bottom corner to enable the rest of the country to fit on the map.
> 
> The new, longer map dispenses with the box, and shows continental China along with its self-declared sea boundary in the South China Sea - stretching right down to the coasts of Malaysia, Vietnam and the Philippines - on one complete map.
> 
> "The islands of the South China Sea on the traditional map of China are shown in a cut-away box, and readers cannot fully, directly know the full map of China," the ruling Communist Party's official People's Daily said on its website.
> 
> Old maps make the South China Sea's islands appear more like an appendage rather than an integral part of the country, which the new map makes "obvious with a single glance", the report added.
> 
> "This vertical map of China has important meaning for promoting citizens' better understanding of ... maintaining (our) maritime rights and territorial integrity," an unnamed official with the map's publishers told the newspaper.
> 
> China's foreign ministry said people should not read too much into the issuing of the new map.
> 
> "The goal is to serve the Chinese public. As for the intentions, I think there is no need to make too much of any association here," ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying told a daily news briefing.
> 
> "China's position on the South China Sea issue is consistent and extremely clear. Our stance has not changed."
> 
> Beijing claims about 90 percent of the South China Sea, but parts of the potentially energy-rich waters are also subject to claims by the Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan.
> 
> Philippine Foreign Ministry spokesman Charles Jose said the publication of the map showed China's "unreasonably expansive claims" that he said contravened international law.
> 
> "And it is precisely such ambitious expansionism that is causing tension in the South China Sea," he told reporters.
> 
> Tensions have risen sharply in the region in recent months, especially between China and both Vietnam and the Philippines.
> 
> China's positioning of an oil rig in waters claimed by both Beijing and Hanoi last month has lead to rammings at sea between ships from both countries and anti-Chinese violence in Vietnam.



It is trash. 

China map 1904, territory of China is ended at Hainan Islands.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cirr

*CCG 1310*：


----------



## Beast

Malaya said:


> *PH gets Singapore backing in sea dispute*
> June 25th, 2014
> 
> MANILA, Philippines—The Philippines welcomed on Wednesday Singapore’s statement emphasizing the rule of law towards resolving territorial disputes in the South China Sea, reflecting the neighboring city-state’s support for the country’s call to peacefully settle the issue amid escalating tensions with China.
> 
> Assistant Secretary Charles Jose, the Department of Foreign Affairs spokesperson, said on Wednesday that Singapore Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong’s comments at a forum in Washington D.C. Tuesday echoed the Philippines’ “battle cry” in pursuing a resolution to the worsening dispute.
> 
> *“We welcome statements in support of the peaceful settlement of disputes and the primacy of the rule of law, which is essential for peace, security and stability,” *Jose told the Philippine Daily Inquirer on Wednesday.
> 
> “*The call to respect the rule of law has been the battlecry of the Philippines from the beginning,”* he said in a statement sent via text message.
> 
> Lee earlier said Tuesday that international law must be the basis of resolving territorial disputes in the South China Sea, a six-way contest involving China, Taiwan and Singapore’s fellow members in the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (Asean), the Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia and Brunei.
> 
> Speaking before the Council on Foreign Relations, an American foreign policy think-tank based in the US capital, Lee said that claimant nations must choose the peaceful path instead of the “might is right” approach.
> 
> *“I think international law must have a big weight in how disputes are resolved,”* Lee said in response to a question about the dispute, as quoted in a report by the Associated Press.
> 
> Lee made such comments amid increasing tensions in the South China Sea, with reclamation work by China in territories within the Philippines’ exclusive economic zone (EEZ), and the biggest claimant nation’s recent brushes with Vietnam in the Paracels.
> 
> Such incursions continue while the Philippines pursues an arbitration bid before the United Nations to halt Chinese activity within its EEZ, clarify maritime entitlements in the waters and nullify China’s sweeping nine-dash-line claim covering nearly all of South China Sea.
> 
> Earlier this month, Foreign Affairs Secretary Albert del Rosario called for a freeze on provocative activities in the disputed waters, a proposal he hopes to formally make in an upcoming Asean meeting.
> 
> Singapore has been supportive of Asean’s efforts to engage China in finalizing a legally binding Code of Conduct (COC) to instill discipline and prevent conflict among claimants pending resolution of the dispute.
> 
> The regional bloc has also been calling for strict compliance with the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties, a 2002 non-aggression pact that the Asean is hoping to strengthen through a binding code.



See how the pinoy twist the words and claim singapore support their clause.  

Stop playing with words and China dont just draw map. We have ships and finance and military to back our drawing. Unlike the pinoy who need to beg their former colonist to get help.


----------



## Zero_wing

Wow see how chinko imperials make stupid map


----------



## William Hung

Zero_wing said:


> Wow see how chinko imperials make stupid map



Wow see how filipino cry on uncle sam's lap.


----------



## Grand Historian

Rechoice said:


> It is trash.
> 
> China map 1904, territory of China is ended at Hainan Islands.


For the nth time read the title of the map.

It really is quite boring interacting with PDF Vietnamese as they can't even read Hanzi then expect Chinese to agree with them.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

Grand Historian said:


> For the nth time read the title of the map.
> 
> It really is quite boring interacting with PDF Vietnamese as they can't even read Hanzi then expect Chinese to agree with them.



It is " full map " of China, kid.


----------



## Grand Historian

EastSea said:


> It is " full map " of China, kid.


This just proves you can't read Hanzi


----------



## StarCraft_ZT

Grand Historian said:


> This just proves you can't read Hanzi



Yes, they don't know Hanzi, but they want to study their history, what a joke.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Grand Historian

StarCraft_ZT said:


> Yes, they don't know Hanzi, but they want to study their history, what a joke.


That's why they rely on internet fabrications because they can't even read their own history

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

Grand Historian said:


> This just proves you can't read Hanzi





> Yes, they don't know Hanzi, but they want to study their history, what a joke.



What is this  全圖 ? bullshxt ?


----------



## NiceGuy

Grand Historian said:


> For the nth time read the title of the map.
> 
> It really is quite boring interacting with PDF Vietnamese as they can't even read Hanzi then expect Chinese to agree with them.


We just let other nations can see ur real map during Qing dynasty. No U-shape that time . If u want a debate, then go to international court , lots of VNese can read Hanzi there.

Of course CHina dare not go to international court coz their history abt SCS(east sea) r all fake

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Grand Historian

EastSea said:


> What is this  全圖 ? bullshxt ?


How hard is it to comprehend a simple title?

Why do you think that Northeastern and Western China are not fully included?


----------



## xesy

StarCraft_ZT said:


> Yes, they don't know Hanzi, but they want to study their history, what a joke.


Our history is written by "Nom", not Hanzi. Even though Nom was based on Hanzi, it's fundamentally different. So of course we don't need to know Hanzi to study our history.


EastSea said:


> What is this  全圖 ? bullshxt ?


It means "full image".


Grand Historian said:


> That's why they rely on internet fabrications because they can't even read their own history


Oh, then you might say our textbooks are full of lies and our TV is just propaganda. We don't mind that. As everyday we can easily see historical sites and monuments around us about how our ancestors bravely fought invaders. And why do you care about our history while you have your own version of it? Believe yours, and leave us believe ours.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Grand Historian

xesy said:


> Our history is written by "Nom", not Hanzi. Even though Nom was based on Hanzi, it's fundamentally different. So of course we don't need to know Hanzi to study our history.


These books are all in Hanzi ie 大越史記,大越史記全書,欽定越史通鑑綱目 if you can't read them that means you don't even understand your own historians.



xesy said:


> Oh, then you might say our textbooks are full of lies and our TV is just propaganda. We don't mind that. As everyday we can easily see historical sites and monuments around us about how our ancestors bravely fought invaders. And why do you care about our history while you have your own version of it? Believe yours, and leave us believe ours.


Vietnamese have provided absolutely nothing that they ruled Southern China or that their precious Hung Kings existed,I don't believe in anything prior to Shang for the same reason.

Look at PDF Vietnamese posts and you can clearly see that they want to steal every aspect of Chinese history as their own.

The amount of fabrication is absolutely staggering,do you thieves have no shame?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NiceGuy

Grand Historian said:


> Look at PDF Vietnamese posts and you can clearly see that they want to steal every aspect of Chinese history as their own.
> 
> The amount of fabrication is absolutely staggering,do you thieves have no shame?


China history abt SCS(east sea) r all fake, if u r so confident abt ur history book, then why dont u come to international court and prove that SCS(east sea) belong to u ?? Dont just sit behind the monitor and talk nonsense.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Grand Historian

NiceGuy said:


> China history abt SCS(east sea) r all fake, if u r so confident abt ur history book, then why dont u come to international court and prove that SCS(east sea) belong to u ?? Dont just sit behind the monitor and talk nonsense.


Why should I prove anything?

I'm not a government entity nor am I a lawyer,unless you can prove that Qing era maps are fake your words mean nothing here.

History thieves like you are incapable and or simply too incompetent to defend their claims.

Now prove that the Li surname originated from Baiyue people,I'll be waiting.

Civilizational flow has been primarily one way,ie from China to Vietnam otherwise show what the Chinese adopted from the Vietnamese.


----------



## NiceGuy

Grand Historian said:


> Why should I prove anything?
> 
> I'm not a government entity nor am I a lawyer,unless you can prove that Qing era maps are fake your words mean nothing here.
> 
> History thieves like you are incapable and or simply too incompetent to defend their claims.
> .


U r thief in SCS(east sea), lots of countries oppose u bcz u rob the international water, no one support ur baseless claim ..


> Now prove that the Li surname originated from Baiyue people,I'll be waiting.
> 
> Civilizational flow has been primarily one way,ie from China to Vietnam otherwise show what the Chinese adopted from the Vietnamese


Why must I prove, The Li still living in HaiNan, our surname Le (Li) was taken from our Baiyue bro. U dont have any video clip to prove that Li surname was adopted from China. Dont use ur fake book to lie here.

Show some video clip, otherwise, get lost, liar .

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Grand Historian

NiceGuy said:


> Why must I prove, The Li still living in HaiNan, our surname Le (Li) was taken from our Baiyue bro. U dont have any video clip to prove that Li surname was adopted from China. Dont use ur fake book to lie here.
> 
> Show some video clip, otherwise, get lost, liar .


You made the claim now prove it.

黎 is proven to exist in Northern China by artifacts and textual evidence.

It is mentioned by Shang Shu,Mozi,Chunqiu Zuozhuan.Lushi Chunqiu,Shuowen Jiezi,Shiji etc.

After being initially raided by grave robbers in 2005,archaeologist were able to piece together the leftovers of the cemetery of the fallen Li kingdom in 2006.

The inscription □侯宰□作寶壺永用 was found in the 8th pit on a bronze ding.










After meticulous study by Chinese specialists the first unclear word was found to be 楷.

In Old Chinese 楷 and 黎 were homonyms and experts such as Zhao Manfang(趙滿芳) and Zhang He(張頜) concluded that 黎 was originally written as 楷.

Further evidence is shown in the book 甲骨文字釋林 which shows that the word 楷 was used as a toponym in Northern China.

Article for those intrested:黎城西周古墓发掘始末_本地历史_黎城在线


----------



## Zero_wing

Black Flag said:


> Wow see how filipino cry on uncle sam's lap.



Can any chinko chinamen back up there claims i guess not


----------



## EastSea

Grand Historian said:


> How hard is it to comprehend a simple title?
> 
> Why do you think that Northeastern and Western China are not fully included?



we don't care what your ancestor think about Northeastern and eastern territory of China in this map. The map of Man Qing stated " 全圖 " mean "full map " or " toàn đồ " in Vietnamese. There is last point of China's territory is Hannan Island.


----------



## Grand Historian

EastSea said:


> we don't care what your ancestor think about Northeastern and eastern territory of China in this map. The map of Man Qing stated " 全圖 " mean "full map " or " toàn đồ " in Vietnamese. There is last point of China's territory is Hannan Island.


If you can only read 全圖 then you clearly don't understand the title.

皇朝直省地輿全圖 do you even understand what this means?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

Grand Historian said:


> If you can only read 全圖 then you clearly don't understand the title.



don't lie, when you lie about "direct" or "indirect" here the title of map, it related to northern China only. It is different story. What is Xin Jiang mean in Chinese ? There is "new border" of China. So why Uijgur (East Turkmenistan ) people are fighting with Han Chinese to regain independence from China.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Grand Historian

EastSea said:


> don't lie, when you lie about "direct" or "indirect" here the title of map, it related to northern China only. It is different story. What is Xin Jiang mean in Chinese ? There is "new border" of China. So why Uijgur (East Turkmenistan ) people are fighting with Han Chinese to regain independence from China.


Come back when you can actually read Hanzi.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

Grand Historian said:


> Come back when you can actually read Hanzi.



hoklo people can fight to regain independence of Republic Famosa too.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Grand Historian

EastSea said:


> hoklo people can fight to regain independence of Republic Famosa too.


Which has nothing to with your ability to read Hanzi.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## EastSea

Grand Historian said:


> Which has nothing to with your ability to read Hanzi.



Han Zi is foreigner language to Viets, this is character of Han Chinese. I can translate my family tree written in Han Zi, it is enough.

OK, Viets has nothing to do with Independence of Famosa Republic of Hoklo people in Taiwan. Do it by ourselves.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Grand Historian

EastSea said:


> Han Zi is foreigner language to Viets, this is character of Han Chinese. I can translate my family tree written in Han Zi, it is enough.
> 
> OK, Viets has nothing to do with Independence of Famosa Republic of Hoklo people in Taiwan. Do it by ourselves.


You can't even read a title of a map shows how pitiful your command of Hanzi is.

There is no such thing as Foromsa Republic of Hoklo in Taiwan,nor are there aspirations for such a thing.


----------



## xesy

Grand Historian said:


> You can't even read a title of a map shows how pitiful your command of Hanzi is.
> 
> There is no such thing as Foromsa Republic of Hoklo in Taiwan,nor are there aspirations for such a thing.


Don't go around mocking other incapability of understanding Hanzi. In Vietnam, the most popular foreign language is English, then next are Japanese and Russian. Less popular one is French. Chinese is slightly above that, kind of in the middle. Many of Vietnamese living in the border with China can speak Chinese but don't understand Hanzi, because it's not an easy to understand writing system.

There are many Viet scholars who understand Hanzi and do reseach on such documents. Yet they cannot express their opinions over the net because they can't use English. What we do/ say here are in fact just doing the translating job. So you cannot disregard our points just because we cannot understanding Hanzi.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NiceGuy

xesy said:


> Don't go around mocking other incapability of understanding Hanzi. In Vietnam, the most popular foreign language is English, then next are Japanese and Russian. Less popular one is French. Chinese is slightly above that, kind of in the middle. Many of Vietnamese living in the border with Chinese can speak Chinese but don't understand Hanzi, because it's not an easy to understand writing system.
> 
> There are many Viet scholars who understand Hanzi and do reseach on such documents. Yet they cannot express their opinions over the net because they can't use English. What we do/ say here are in fact just doing the translating job. So you cannot disregard our points just because we cannot understanding Hanzi.


We post here to let other nation can see why China's claim in SCS(east sea) is baseless, we dont need to reeducate brain-washed Chinese. 

So, if Chinese want a serious debate and want some VNese who can write Hazi, then lets go to the international court to debate.Thats it.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## xesy

NiceGuy said:


> We post here to let other nation can see why China's claim in SCS(east sea) is baseless, we dont need to reeducate brain-washed Chinese.
> 
> So, if Chinese want a serious debate and want some VNese who can write Hazi, then lets go to the international court to debate.Thats it.


Chinese govt just gives the world a big middle finger over the face, saying that they won't go to any courts relating to the SCS issues. That's why Chinese mems here are often mocking others whenever we touch on the international court.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Grand Historian

xesy said:


> Don't go around mocking other incapability of understanding Hanzi. In Vietnam, the most popular foreign language is English, then next are Japanese and Russian. Less popular one is French. Chinese is slightly above that, kind of in the middle. Many of Vietnamese living in the border with China can speak Chinese but don't understand Hanzi, because it's not an easy to understand writing system.
> 
> There are many Viet scholars who understand Hanzi and do reseach on such documents. Yet they cannot express their opinions over the net because they can't use English. What we do/ say here are in fact just doing the translating job. So you cannot disregard our points just because we cannot understanding Hanzi.


Why can't I mock someone who purposely distorts the original text or makes ridiculous claims?

Vietnamese members have been using the 1904 map to prove that the Hainan was the Southern most island of China yet the title itself stated that it was land that was under direct imperial control.

Whenever Vietnamese make absurd claims about Chinese history/culture I'm able to show sources in Hanzi,yet every single time Vietnamese members make some poor excuse that Chinese history is fake and they can't read it.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NiceGuy

Grand Historian said:


> Whenever Vietnamese make absurd claims about Chinese history/culture I'm able to show sources in Hanzi,yet every single time Vietnamese members make some poor excuse that Chinese history is fake and they can't read it.


The Judges of international court know China's evidence r fake and VN's ones r real

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## xesy

Grand Historian said:


> Why can't I mock someone who purposely distorts the original text or makes ridiculous claims?
> 
> Vietnamese members have been using the 1904 map to prove that the Hainan was the Southern most island of China yet the title itself stated that it was land that was under direct imperial control.
> 
> Whenever Vietnamese make absurd claims about Chinese history/culture I'm able to show sources in Hanzi,yet every single time Vietnamese members make some poor excuse that Chinese history is fake and they can't read it.


"Direct imperial control" you said, that means Chinese govt at that time, the Quin dynasty I think, did not have govt level control over Spartly and Paracels. France at that time had the islands under their control and as the colony broke free from its master, Vietnam inherited French former colonial land and islands. Is that wrong?

Claiming one history is fake is not Vietnamese speciality. Chinese also do the same. Knowing a language does not help one understanding the history of a country. Like we all know English but what's about the history of Australia? They use English, right?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

Grand Historian said:


> You can't even read a title of a map shows how pitiful your command of Hanzi is.
> 
> There is no such thing as Foromsa Republic of Hoklo in Taiwan,nor are there aspirations for such a thing.



OK, read more here.

China’s Xi Jinping And The Map of China From the 18th Century — “Time to realise what a true re-emergence of China means.”
April 8, 2014

*Poisonous gift: a map of China without annexed and oppressed nations (Tibet, East Turkestan, Mongolia, and Manchuria).*

By Rachel Lu







German Chancellor Angela Merkel presents Xi Jinping with a map of China from the 18th century in Berlin, Germany.

Hong Kong — Last week German Chancellor *Angela Merkel* hosted visiting *Xi Jinping* at a dinner where they exchanged gifts.

Merkel presented to Xi a 1735 map of China made by prolific French cartographer *Jean-Baptiste Bourguignon d’Anville* and printed by a German publishing house.
.
According to an antique-maps website, d’Anville’s map was based on earlier geographical surveys done by Jesuit missionaries in China and represented the “summation of European knowledge on China in the 18th-century.”
.
The map showed China without annexed and oppressed nations (Tibet, East Turkestan, Mongolia, and Manchuria).
.
*The islands of Taiwan and Hainan — the latter clearly part of modern China, the former very much disputed — are shown with a different colour border.*






The 1735 map of China made by French cartographer Jean-Baptiste Bourguignon d’Anville
.
Historical maps are sensitive business in China.
.
Every schoolchild in China learns that Tibet, East Turkestan, Taiwan, and the Senkaku Islands have been “inalienable parts of China since ancient times.”
.
*The d’Anville map*, at least visually,* is a rejection of that narrative. *
.
Unsurprisingly, China’s official media outlets don’t seem to have appreciated Merkel’s gift.
.
The _People’s Daily_, which has given meticulous accounts of Xi’s European tour, elided any coverage of the *offending map*.
.
More curiously, *when news of the map’s presentation reached the Chinese heartland, it had somehow morphed into a completely different one. *
.
A map published in many Chinese-language media reports about Merkel’s gift-giving shows the Chinese empire at its territorial zenith, including Tibet, East Turkestan, Mongolia and large swaths of Siberia.
.
This larger map was the handiwork of British mapmaker *John Dower*, published in 1844 by Henry Teesdale & Co. in London, and was certainly not the gift from Merkel to Xi.
.
But this mistake was not noted or explained in Chinese reports.
.
Both versions of the Merkel map have made appearances on Chinese social media, eliciting vastly different interpretations.
.
Those who saw the d’Anville map seemed shocked by its limited territories.
.
*Hao Qian*, a finance reporter, remarked that the map is “quite an awkward gift.”
.
Writer *Xiao Zheng* blasted Merkel for trying to “legitimise the Tibet and East Turkestan independence movements.”
.
Architect *Liu Kun* wrote, “The Germans definitely have ulterior motives.”
.
One Internet user asked, “How is this possible? Where is Tibet, East Turkestan, the Northeast? How did Xi react?”
.
The Dower map, on the other hand, seemed to stoke nostalgia for large territories and imperial power.
.
An advertising executive enthused, “Our Manchu ‘ancestors’ are [awesome].”
.
Another Internet user hoped Xi would feel “encouraged” by the map to “realise what a true [re-emergence] of China means.”
.
Some suspected that Merkel tried to send Xi a subtle reminder that Russia had helped Mongolia declare independence from China in the mid-20th century, somewhat like what Russia did in Crimea in March 2014.
.
All the cartographic brouhaha may be overblown.
.
One Internet user refused to “overinterpret” the d’Anville map as a message about Tibet or East Turkestan.
.
After all, “You can’t use a map of the 13 colonies of the United States made in 1776 to tell Americans that Texas or California is not US territory.”
.

Chính's news: Angela Merkel's historical China map flap

German Chancellor Angela Merkel presents Xi Jinping with a map of China from the 18th century in Berlin | Peace and Freedom

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## CN.Black

EastSea said:


> don't lie, when you lie about "direct" or "indirect" here the title of map, it related to northern China only. It is different story. What is Xin Jiang mean in Chinese ? There is "new border" of China. So why Uijgur (East Turkmenistan ) people are fighting with Han Chinese to regain independence from China.


皇朝直省地域全图 means "the whole area directly controlled by the Royal".It is the map of one part of China.Not the whole China Empire.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

A new toy -128m tall floating pile driver-to play with in the SCS：







Way to go！


----------



## EastSea

cirr said:


> A new toy -128m tall floating pile driver-to play with in the SCS：
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Way to go！



sea pirate is coming soon.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

Hardly a day goes by without a new “toy” preparing itself for a deep thrust in the SCS 











Newly launched 5000m3/h ”*Tiejianjiao-01*“ cutter suction dredger.


----------



## EastSea

cirr said:


> Hardly a day goes by without a new “toy” preparing itself for a deep thrust in the SCS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Newly launched 5000m3/h ”*Tiejianjiao-01*“ cutter suction dredger.



Chinese sea pirates have one more toy, criminals do their job, more robbery actions. .....

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

It is only a matter of time when you guys see these babies flying over your head deep in the SCS the way dragonflies do over the bush in your back garden：





Long endurance（30 hrs）drones and control and command vehicle





Aerial views through the eyes of the drones





Location of deployment of the drones

Xisha today，Nansha tomorrow（when the reclaimed reefs are ready）


----------



## F-22Raptor

The USS John S. McCain, USS Kidd, and USS Stethem operating in the SCS.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Aepsilons

F-22Raptor said:


> The USS John S. McCain, USS Kidd, and USS Stethem operating in the SCS.





I'm lovin the skull and bones flags, btw..


----------



## Genesis

Nihonjin1051 said:


> I'm lovin the skull and bones flags, btw..



Put a straw hat on top and you got the king of the pirates.


----------



## EastSea

Nihonjin1051 said:


> I'm lovin the skull and bones flags, btw..





Genesis said:


> Put a straw hat on top and you got the king of the pirates.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Edison Chen

EastSea said:


>



How much did he get paid? Did he receive free box lunch from you government?


----------



## EastSea

Edison Chen said:


> How much did he get paid? Did he receive free box lunch from you government?



idiot dirty chinese aggressors !!!

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Edison Chen

EastSea said:


> idiot dirty chinese aggressors !!!



hahaha, relax. I can give them 50 bucks to let them keep quiet.


----------



## Genesis

EastSea said:


>


I guess you didn't get the reference. That's cool.

But seriously I never understood domestic protest against foreign countries. How does that work, you mess up Vietnam and we are suppose to what be scared?


----------



## EastSea

Edison Chen said:


> hahaha, relax. I can give them 50 bucks to let them keep quiet.





Genesis said:


> I guess you didn't get the reference. That's cool.
> 
> But seriously I never understood domestic protest against foreign countries. How does that work, you mess up Vietnam and we are suppose to what be scared?



stupid trolls.

chinese are dirty aggressors, are sea pirates.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Edison Chen

EastSea said:


> stupid trolls.
> 
> chinese are dirty aggressors, are sea pirates.



This old man's Tshit is very cool, a five-pointed star so big, so shining! I want buy one.


----------



## areal

inside the range of DF-21, better keep a low profile


F-22Raptor said:


> The USS John S. McCain, USS Kidd, and USS Stethem operating in the SCS.



two solutions to SCS issue for Vietnam:
Vietnamese Thieves get out of China water.
Stop brainwashing your moron people.


EastSea said:


> stupid trolls.
> 
> chinese are dirty aggressors, are sea pirates.


----------



## EastSea

areal said:


> inside the range of DF-21, better keep a low profile
> 
> 
> two solutions to SCS issue for Vietnam:
> Vietnamese Thieves get out of China water.
> Stop brainwashing your moron people.



Chinese are invaders, get out from our water and Islands.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## areal

I mean it, it is true, Vietnamese should stop day-dreaming that it can get something that it doesn't deserve.
It is a dead loop over SCS issue for Vietnam, like this

void main ()
{
while (true)
{
theLabelAgain:
Vietnamese brainwash their babies: {Hoang sa and Truong sa belong to Vietnam}
Babies grow up, found it is not true in reality.
Cried, and protested every weekend.
the truth is truth.
Vietnamese can do nothing but have more babies.
goto theLabelAgain;
}
}


EastSea said:


> Chinese are invaders, get out from our water and Islands.


----------



## EastSea

areal said:


> I mean it, it is true, Vietnamese should stop day-dreaming that it can get something that it doesn't deserve.
> It is a dead loop over SCS issue for Vietnam, like this
> 
> void main ()
> {
> while (true)
> {
> theLabelAgain:
> Vietnamese brainwash their babies: {Hoang sa and Truong sa belong to Vietnam}
> Babies grow up, found it is not true in reality.
> Cried, and protested every weekend.
> the truth is truth.
> Vietnamese can do nothing but have more babies.
> goto theLabelAgain;
> }
> }

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## William Hung

areal said:


> inside the range of DF-21, better keep a low profile
> 
> 
> two solutions to SCS issue for Vietnam:
> Vietnamese Thieves get out of China water.
> Stop brainwashing your moron people.



They had a better option offered by China before: Negotiation and joint exploration with China.

Instead, their govt decided to brainwash their population with anti China propaganda. This is their only way to keep them in power, because everything else they have done has drive their country down the rubbish lane.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

Two 3000-tonne CCG vessels launched on 06.07.2014 at GSI：






广船国际一日内四船出坞－中国船舶工业集团公司

 More to come，lots more。


----------



## EastSea

cirr said:


> Two 3000-tonne CCG vessels launched on 06.07.2014 at GSI：
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 广船国际一日内四船出坞－中国船舶工业集团公司
> 
> More to come，lots more。


----------



## cirr

A particular type of CCG vessels spotted being built at a 3rd shipyard: 






The great white fleet is coming!


----------



## liaoliaoeryi

c


----------



## Viet

Where is the body text?

Anyway, it is a good development. I think our navy should lay sea mines around Paracels to prevent them from returning to the site.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## xunzi

Viet said:


> Where is the body text?
> 
> Anyway, it is a good development. I think our navy should lay sea mines around Paracels to prevent them from returning to the site.


We will sink all your vessels if you dare getting near our Paracel.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## liaoliaoeryi

Viet said:


> Where is the body text?
> 
> Anyway, it is a good development. I think our navy should lay sea mines around Paracels to prevent them from returning to the site.


don't how to paste in Ipad.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

xunzi said:


> We will sink all your vessels if you dare getting near our Paracel.


Sea mines don't have any name printed on it. Your illegal occupation of Paracels is not internationally recognized, thus it is not yours. You could have it in whole or in part if you negotiated with us in a complete package for the SC Sea, but you have decided to seek a military solution.

Now everything is too late.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## sweetgrape

Hehe, finally vietnam "win" again!




Viet said:


> Sea mines don't have any name printed on it. Your illegal occupation of Paracels is not internationally recognized, thus it is not yours. You could have it in whole or in part if you negotiated with us in a complete package for the SC Sea, but you have decided to seek a military solution.
> Now everything is too late.


Mind to post the source that other country said Xisha is not Chinese?

Negotiating with you? why need that? you think we are begger like you for seeking help around the world!

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## xunzi

Viet said:


> Sea mines don't have any name printed on it. Your illegal occupation of Paracels is not internationally recognized, thus it is not yours. You could have it if you negotiated with us in a complete package for the SC Sea, but you have decided to seek a military solution.
> 
> Now everything is too late.


There is no dispute in Paracel. If you want it, you have to come get it. Invade it and see what happen. We have the most sea mines in the world. About 50,000+. I don't think you want to play this game with us, my friend.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Raphael

Viet said:


> Where is the body text?
> 
> Anyway, it is a good development. I think our navy should lay sea mines around Paracels to prevent them from returning to the site.



We are thrilled you want to initiate military hostilities. Once you do, we have every right to retaliate. You have made us wait too long for the opportunity - it was almost rude.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## NiceGuy

xunzi said:


> There is no dispute in Paracel. If you want it, you have to come get it. Invade it and see what happen. We have the most sea mines in the world. About 50,000+. I don't think you want to play this game with us, my friend.


We will take Paracel back when we complete the plan to unite all countries in sub-Mekong region to get stronger. Laos-Camb military r under our control now. One Thai general also show his support to VN 


Raphael said:


> We are thrilled you want to initiate military hostilities. Once you do, we have every right to retaliate. You have made us wait to long for the opportunity - it was almost rude.


Paracel dont have important location, we dont need to take back now, just let the world see it as disputed islands

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Raphael

I agree with all the VN posts in this thread. They should invade and try to take control of the Paracels, Laos, Cambodia, Thailand, Burma, all of the "sub-Mekong region" .

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## NiceGuy

Raphael said:


> I agree with all the VN posts in this thread. They should invade and try to take control of the Paracels, Laos, Cambodia, Thailand, Burma, all of the "sub-Mekong region" .


Yeah, so just sit and wait, Paracel dont have any special strategic position, we r more interested in Thai and Burma now

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Rechoice

sweetgrape said:


> Hehe, finally vietnam "win" again!
> 
> 
> 
> Mind to post the source that other country said Xisha is not Chinese?
> 
> Negotiating with you? why need that? you think we are begger like you for seeking help around the world!



china can say you "win " too, you moved rig out without losses.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## somsak

NiceGuy said:


> Yeah, so just sit and wait, Paracel dont have any special strategic position, we r more interested in Thai and Burma now


Interesting. Let start!. Im long for the day rice sky rockets up.


----------



## Rechoice

NiceGuy said:


> Yeah, so just sit and wait, Paracel dont have any special strategic position, we r more interested in Thai and Burma now



he he, don't telling rumor here, bro,.


----------



## Viet

sweetgrape said:


> Hehe, finally vietnam "win" again!
> 
> 
> 
> Mind to post the source that other country said Xisha is not Chinese?
> 
> Negotiating with you? why need that? you think we are begger like you for seeking help around the world!


Can you name the countries that recognize your possession of Paracel, can't you?
What is a begger?


----------



## Rechoice

"beggar band" is invented in China, bro. 




Viet said:


> Can you name the countries that recognize your possession of Paracel, can't you?
> What is a begger?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Bastion-P

China is very obedient. Just some days after the U.S. demanded, they did it. Way to go, China!  ( sorry wrong flag) 

Last week, the US Senate adopted a Resolution condemning China’s provocations in the East Sea and East China Sea and calling on China to withdraw oil rig Haiyang 981 and escort ships and return to the status quo in the East Sea before May 1, 2014.
China asked to abide by international law | Current Affairs - VOV5

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## sweetgrape

Rechoice said:


> china can say you "win " too, you moved rig out without losses.


No, we loss, in our own territory, but influenced by you vietnamese fishing boat constantly, we have to deploy many ship there protect our rig, don't sink down simply these vietnamese boat that influence our rig, I think you vietnam win.




Viet said:


> Can you name the countries that recognize your possession of Paracel, can't you?
> What is a begger?


So you have nothing!

Like Beijing, Shanghai and other part of China, we don't need ask the world to recognize it is part of China, it is nature.

You don't find that, after the affair occuring, you leader "beg" help and support around the world?! don't they?




Bastion-P said:


> China is very obedient. Just some days after the U.S. demanded, they did it. Way to go, China!  ( sorry wrong flag)
> 
> Last week, the US Senate adopted a Resolution condemning China’s provocations in the East Sea and East China Sea and calling on China to withdraw oil rig Haiyang 981 and escort ships and return to the status quo in the East Sea before May 1, 2014.
> China asked to abide by international law | Current Affairs - VOV5


Yeah, you are damn right, it is USA that "force" China back, but for who USA did these? 
Fcuking USA, Why you are so powerful, hurt China again and again?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## liaoliaoeryi

In fact,I feel a bit puzzled what chess our gov is playing?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## seven7seven

I guess China didn't find any oil there. However, let Vietnam have their fantasy that China moved it for them

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## NiceGuy

somsak said:


> Interesting. Let start!. Im long for the day rice sky rockets up.


Its rolling now ,bro. Forget that ur general show his support to VN ?? thats the good sign for an united sub-Mekong region

United we stand, divided we fall

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Jlaw

liaoliaoeryi said:


> In fact,I feel a bit puzzled what chess our gov is playing?



I thought maybe because of the typhoon, but I always thought a big rig like that can withstand all typhoon.



seven7seven said:


> I guess China didn't find any oil there. However, let Vietnam have their fantasy that China moved it for them


There is oil there according to various reports, but said they moved due to typhoon. I do not understand the game PRC is playing now.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Kolaps

It's time for Taiwan to move in!


Actually China still has cards to be used, just like US did in South China Sea for their interest.

Both Vietnam and Philippine have territorial dispute and separatist movement. China can use that card. If Vietnam and Philippine lost their southern regions, they will lost South China Sea claim for that area too.

China can make a deal to these separatist and Cambodia, exchanging South China Sea.

At least some problems solved, and China even had friends too.


----------



## NiceGuy

sweetgrape said:


> No, we loss, in our own territory, but influenced by you vietnamese fishing boat constantly, we have to deploy many ship there protect our rig, don't sink down simply these vietnamese boat that influence our rig, I think you vietnam win.


Paracel is just a small pawn in the Chess-board. But at least the wolrd can see that VN have bravery fishermen and marine police dare to challenge China patrol ships thats much bigger and almost triple in quantity

btw: As I told u guys, SCS(east sea) is not so important to VN bcz our oil tanker dont need to pass through it. But its very important for SK-JP and US base in SK-Okinawa. If China can control SCS(east sea), then u can cut off all oil supply to JP-SK.

So, if u can not take back TW from US, then dont hope u can win in SCS(east sea) bcz it is far more important than TW. 



Kolaps said:


> It's time for Taiwan to move in!


Dont take the risk, Phil coast guard may shoot u guys again


----------



## Edison Chen

> *专家：从中石油编制的作业计划看，此项目设计施工作业总周期为100天。海洋石油981钻井平台2014年5月2日就位，5月4日开钻，7月15日完成了全部钻探作业，实际现场总作业时间为73天，按计划顺利完成任务。*





> *专家：从中石油的作业过程看，本次钻探过程中虽然发现了油气显示，但暂未安排油气测试作业。按照深水油气勘探开发流程，预探井发现油气显示后，需要对所取得的资料和数据分析进行综合评价，在作出综合评价前，石油公司暂不会继续实施海上作业。同时考虑到该井处于南海深水区，油气测试作业时间长，特别是南海地区7月中下旬开始进入台风多发季节，为确保人员和设备安全，本次钻探暂未安排油气测试作业。*



According to plan, the rig is to operate for 100 days, it's almost 3 months, but now, we Chinese are very hardworking and efficient, we accomplished the task in only 76 days. Mission accomplished, the rig pulls off, we will evaluate their work then, any problem with that? By the way, we also found oil in other parts of Paracel Islands, before it starts, we need do jobs like responsible investigation, feasibility study and technical evaluation etc. It will take time, so we will come back in the future.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Beidou2020

We will be back for another round of search for oil. It was about a 3 month search. Next search will be longer.


----------



## Bastion-P

sweetgrape said:


> Yeah, you are damn right, it is USA that "force" China back, but for who USA did these?
> Fcuking USA, Why you are so powerful, hurt China again and again?



For themselves. If China keeps hurting US's national interests, they will keep forcing you back like that 



Kolaps said:


> It's time for Taiwan to move in!
> 
> 
> Actually China still has cards to be used, just like US did in South China Sea for their interest.
> 
> Both Vietnam and Philippine have territorial dispute and separatist movement. China can use that card. If Vietnam and Philippine lost their southern regions, they will lost South China Sea claim for that area too.
> 
> China can make a deal to these separatist and Cambodia, exchanging South China Sea.
> 
> At least some problems solved, and China even had friends too.


I think Taiwan is looking to the US to act in this case. They cannot go againts their boss, who already demanded China to move out the oil rigs and escort vessels.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## terranMarine

Something tells me China will be sending another oil rig this year to SCS

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Bastion-P

Edison Chen said:


> According to plan, the rig is to operate for 100 days, it's almost 3 months, but now, we Chinese are very hardworking and efficient, we accomplished the task in only 76 days. Mission accomplished, the rig pulls off, we will evaluate their work then, any problem with that? By the way, we also found oil in other parts of Paracel Islands, before it starts, we need do jobs like responsible investigation, feasibility study and technical evaluation etc. It will take time, so we will come back in the future.


Yep. To save face, you can always have that option to boast.



Beidou2020 said:


> We will be back for another round of search for oil. It was about a 3 month search. Next search will be longer.


I'm sure about that. China will not back down that easily.


----------



## Jlaw

Beidou2020 said:


> We will be back for another round of search for oil. It was about a 3 month search. Next search will be longer.



this was the plan all along for now.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Edison Chen

terranMarine said:


> Something tells me China will be sending another oil rig this year to SCS



This is called 轮岗, work shift. Hahaha

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Jlaw

Bastion-P said:


> Yep. To save face, you can always have that option to boast.
> 
> 
> I'm sure about that. China will not back down that easily.


So when China sends another rig back a few months later, what then? Shall I call you a lowlife dirty liar?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Edison Chen

Bastion-P said:


> Yep. To save face, you can always have that option to boast.
> 
> 
> I'm sure about that. China will not back down that easily.



Whatever, my son, relax. Believe or not, it's all up to you. China already started it, the SCS game began, no one has way back.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## terranMarine

Edison Chen said:


> This is called 轮岗, work shift. Hahaha


Yes what these Vietcongs see as China surrender we treat it as a normal standard procedure (as Arnold would put it "I'll be back" )

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Edison Chen

terranMarine said:


> Yes what these Vietcongs see as China surrender we treat it as a normal standard procedure (as Arnold would put it "I'll be back" )



Next time, rig XXX gets there, we can say "surprise?!"

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## terranMarine



Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Mr Second Back

liaoliaoeryi said:


> In fact,I feel a bit puzzled what chess our gov is playing?


Living in a country where has a lot of oil rig, I can tell you to set or move a oil rig doesnt like such you "move" to supermarket and buy food because you are hungry, which only take you a few minutes. If you remember the "Haiyan" storm, then you can understand the most reason, moreover, an oil rig can cost more than 100 million dollar if staying in deep sea, and the strong storm can make everything on the rig worse. If you Think USA's force. Ok, China can release "China likes someone and will support XXX to be the presient after knowing the final public survey", which can show China even can Control the USA's presidental vote............


----------



## EastSea

terranMarine said:


>



Yes, he jumped in and now jumped out.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## xunzi

NiceGuy said:


> We will take Paracel back when we complete the plan to unite all countries in sub-Mekong region to get stronger. Laos-Camb military r under our control now. One Thai general also show his support to VN
> 
> Paracel dont have important location, we dont need to take back now, just let the world see it as disputed islands





NiceGuy said:


> We will take Paracel back when we complete the plan to unite all countries in sub-Mekong region to get stronger. Laos-Camb military r under our control now. One Thai general also show his support to VN
> 
> Paracel dont have important location, we dont need to take back now, just let the world see it as disputed islands


The Thai should bomb you. LOL

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## sweetgrape

Bastion-P said:


> For themselves. If China keeps hurting US's national interests, they will keep forcing you back like that


You mean SCS is American national interests? or viet is son or d0g of USA?

Not only American interests is something, they are stronger, but not that strong.


----------



## NiceGuy

sweetgrape said:


> You mean SCS is American national interests? or viet is son or d0g of USA?
> 
> Not only American interests is something, they are stronger, but not that strong.


SCS(east sea) have a big part is international water, so US and the whole world wont let Chinatake away that important water.

Learn the international law of sea before posting some stupid comments here, dude

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## sweetgrape

NiceGuy said:


> SCS(east sea) have a big part is international water, so US and the whole world wont let Chinatake away that important water.
> 
> Learn the international law of sea before posting some stupid comments here, dude


How stupid, can march you? hehe!


----------



## Kolaps

South China Sea can't fall into the communist hand like Vietnam.

These communists will never let US to use islands on South China Sea as a base to attack them, in the name of democracy.


----------



## NiceGuy

Kolaps said:


> South China Sea can't fall into the communist hand like Vietnam.
> 
> These communists will never let US to use islands on South China Sea as a base to attack them, in the name of democracy.


What do u mean ?? why must we let US have base in our islands ??

anyway: Want or not, communist VN still control the important sea lane in our hand, and we can sink any TW or China merchant ships passing by at any time we want to destroy ur economy



sweetgrape said:


> How stupid, can march you? hehe!


Yeah, keep fooling urself like Ah Q that u r strong and smart etc...but u just lots in oil rig conflict. Dont forget that we only use a small marine police forces to counter China huge forces with many kind of very big ships

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## xesy

Kolaps said:


> South China Sea can't fall into the communist hand like Vietnam.
> 
> These communists will never let US to use islands on South China Sea as a base to attack them, in the name of democracy.


Go away, Kitten of the Cold War. Now who care about capitalism or communism. For benefit people can shake hands with the devil. The time of ideology is over.

Anyway if another Chinese rig comes in, this time expects fierce reactions from VN civilians.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## liaoliaoeryi

xesy said:


> Go away, Kitten of the Cold War. Now who care about capitalism or communism. For benefit people can shake hands with the devil. The time of ideology is over.
> 
> Anyway if another Chinese rig comes in, this time expects fierce reactions from VN civilians.


go on burning Taiwan factory?


----------



## AKIRAKUMA

liaoliaoeryi said:


> go on burning Taiwan factory?


"Wit" Vietnamese both smashed the Japanese factories...lol


----------



## Soryu

terranMarine said:


>


your selfie look pathetic ... Did you hungry and nobody feed you that time !?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Jlaw

Kolaps said:


> South China Sea can't fall into the communist hand like Vietnam.
> 
> These communists will never let US to use islands on South China Sea as a base to attack them, in the name of democracy.



Don't underestimate the power of the low IQ viets. They will sell their bodies to the highest bidders. Their gov't is not allowing a US base for now but soon they will.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ephone

That makes China be afraid??? 



Viet said:


> Sea mines don't have any name printed on it. Your illegal occupation of Paracels is not internationally recognized, thus it is not yours. You could have it in whole or in part if you negotiated with us in a complete package for the SC Sea, but you have decided to seek a military solution.
> 
> Now everything is too late.


----------



## Viet

Jlaw said:


> Don't underestimate the power of the low IQ viets. They will sell their bodies to the highest bidders. Their gov't is not allowing a US base for now but soon they will.
> 
> Always sleep with one eye open with a viet around.


I sense fear in your voice

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## tranquilium

Oil rig 981 has moved because it has finished its drilling task. The next platform moving in is the South Sea 4. The operation location is 18°36′48.″47 N/107°40′28.″43 E with a operation radius of 2000 meters. The expected operation date is 1 year.

南海四号钻井平台赴南海作业 持续时间近1年_世界军情_军事_北京晨报网

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Globenim

xesy said:


> Anyway if another Chinese rig comes in, this time expects fierce reactions from VN civilians.



We never expected anything less than vile aggression and big mouth from your "civilians".


----------



## NiceGuy

tranquilium said:


> Oil rig 981 has moved because it has finished its drilling task. The next platform moving in is the South Sea 4. The operation location is 18°36′48.″47 N/107°40′28.″43 E with a operation radius of 2000 meters. The expected operation date is 1 year.
> 
> 南海四号钻井平台赴南海作业 持续时间近1年_世界军情_军事_北京晨报网


Yeah, u always find a good excuse for ur withdrawal. In fact, if ur rig try to stay, our frogmen , our Kilos will come during the storm and destroy it, and u only can blame the storm that destroy ur rig

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## xesy

Globenim said:


> We never expected anything less than vile aggression and big mouth from your "civilians".


Funny while you Chinese mems keep talking about the riot and then act like you don't care at all.


liaoliaoeryi said:


> go on burning Taiwan factory?


Maybe, VNese don't particularly hate Chinese companies but well, a little spark can start a forest fire. It's really hard to control an angry crowd. It's not like VN policemen are not angry when China provoke VN, they will not put themselves in danger to stop an angry crowd for the sake of "potential" enemies.


----------



## Viet

tranquilium said:


> Oil rig 981 has moved because it has finished its drilling task. The next platform moving in is the South Sea 4. The operation location is 18°36′48.″47 N/107°40′28.″43 E with a operation radius of 2000 meters. The expected operation date is 1 year.
> 
> 南海四号钻井平台赴南海作业 持续时间近1年_世界军情_军事_北京晨报网


No one expects less from a hooligan like you. 

But hey the good thing is we will have more means in a year to harass you, every day, every night and every hour until you piss off again.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

*CCG 3307* all set for floating-out shortly， *CCG 3306* ready for handover：

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## StarCraft_ZT

cirr said:


> *CCG 3307* all set for floating-out shortly， *CCG 3306* ready for handover：



They will crash Vietnam hard on the beach.


----------



## StarCraft_ZT

tranquilium said:


> Oil rig 981 has moved because it has finished its drilling task. The next platform moving in is the South Sea 4. The operation location is 18°36′48.″47 N/107°40′28.″43 E with a operation radius of 2000 meters. The expected operation date is 1 year.
> 
> 南海四号钻井平台赴南海作业 持续时间近1年_世界军情_军事_北京晨报网








Is location A the place where South Sea 4 will head to?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

StarCraft_ZT said:


> They will crash Vietnam hard on the beach.



More and bigger ships in the pipeline，a lot more and a lot bigger。


----------



## StarCraft_ZT

cirr said:


> More and bigger ships in the pipeline，a lot more and a lot bigger。



is this 3000t? When will our 10000t coast guard ship come out? ^^


----------



## cirr

*China Coast Guard（CCG）Hospital Ship-01*：






The ship's hold makes great room for a hospital。


----------



## Genesis

cirr said:


> *China Coast Guard（CCG）Hospital Ship-01*：
> 
> View attachment 39158
> 
> 
> The ship's hold makes great room for a hospital。


A hospital ship for coast guard, to me, it's long overdue. Humanitarian missions on the sea. Very cool.




StarCraft_ZT said:


> is this 3000t? When will our 10000t coast guard ship come out? ^^



Later, but I have to say, the 10,000 ton ship looks like a helicopter carrier, almost, a very aggressive design, more of a support ship, the 3000 ton ships will do most of the heavy lifting.

The goal is to damage, not destroy.



EastSea said:


>



This just feels so good, only the US and allies gets protests, in other words world players. Nobody ever protest against, say most of the world.

keep it coming brothers, keep it coming. What's a rock star without a fan base.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Jlaw

NiceGuy said:


> Yeah, u always find a good excuse for ur withdrawal. In fact, if ur rig try to stay, our frogmen , our Kilos will come during the storm and destroy it, and u only can blame the storm that destroy ur rig


@Viet 

See what i mean? 



StarCraft_ZT said:


> View attachment 39149
> 
> 
> Is location A the place where South Sea 4 will head to?


The closer to vietnam the better.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## sweetgrape

NiceGuy said:


> Yeah, keep fooling urself like Ah Q that u r strong and smart etc...but u just lots in oil rig conflict. Dont forget that we only use a small marine police forces to counter China huge forces with many kind of very big ships


Yeah, I only "fool" myself Chinese are strong and smart, can't face the "reality" that Vietnams is stronger and smarter, hehe!

Keep using the small or smaller marine police counter China, China is building bigger ships, I feel very "ashamed" of "bullying"
small vietnamese ship! BTW, keep begging Japan and USA.




NiceGuy said:


> Yeah, u always find a good excuse for ur withdrawal. In fact, if ur rig try to stay, our frogmen , our Kilos will come during the storm and destroy it, and u only can blame the storm that destroy ur rig

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cirr

StarCraft_ZT said:


> is this 3000t? When will our 10000t coast guard ship come out? ^^



Just under 4000 tons。Yes it still belongs in the 3000-tonne class。

Also don't forget the 5000-tonne ships。


----------



## NiceGuy

Jlaw said:


> @Viet
> 
> See what i mean?
> 
> 
> The closer to vietnam the better.





sweetgrape said:


> Yeah, I only "fool" myself Chinese are strong and smart, can't face the "reality" that Vietnams is stronger and smarter, hehe!
> 
> Keep using the small or smaller marine police counter China, China is building bigger ships, I feel very "ashamed" of "bullying"
> small vietnamese ship! BTW, keep begging Japan and USA.


Ur general never forget this tragedy in 1990 



> *Who killed 11 Chinese troops in Gaven Reefs in 1990 ?*
> 
> Army since January 1988, has troops stationed seven Spratly reefs. The seven reefs are mostly suitable flooded reef, reef exposed at low tide, low tide vast expanse of water. Dizhan large reefs around everywhere, so the army only a few small reefs on the distribution and strength of comparative stagnation was at a disadvantage. Early garrison, because the defense is not perfect facilities, personnel stationed in South Reef smoked an accident occurs.
> 
> N*ovember 7, 1990, I found the Southern Command Nansha reefs lost radio contact.After the situation was reported to the South China Sea Fleet deployed immediately went to see the ship. Under the notification, the reef is a unit of Marines stationed in the preparation of 12 people, then should be 11 people (one reason temporarily off the reef). Inspectors found that the bodies of six soldiers on the reef, and another five people missing.* Missing persons including reef Chang allegiance, vice reef long and correspondents. In addition to the personnel on the reef, the reef warrior Xu Huiping Yong Department reef due to the treatment of burns and survived. Inspectors found multiple bullet holes in the room, indicating where the fighting occurred. Then they picked up and from the underwater reef a few rifles, these guns are all our military garrison personnel standard rifle.
> 
> This event was caused no small vibration in the army, immediately set up by the South China Sea Fleet of the senior leadership responsible for the investigation team, in-depth and comprehensive investigation, and make rehabilitation work. Findings are confidential at the time, unable to understand the outside.
> 
> This strange incident, even if insiders are also controversial. Is encountered enemy special forces raid, fighting or other emergency occurs, the truth has not yet been fully understood.This incident, I analyzed are the following possibilities:
> 
> *1, most likely by the army special forces is. Vietnamese troops in 1988, "3.14" Red Reef of Nansha sea battle at a disadvantage, must look for an opportunity to retaliate. But then I Nansha garrison high vigilance and patrolling troops, combat readiness, they are hard to find opportunities. I combined the naval prisoners of war captured in Zhanjiang Nansha trial, our government has not yet handed over to Vietnam. Since 1990, our military posture in Nansha is clear, I observe activity patterns reef and the ship's officers that they have already mastered their "revenge about" conditions ripe. According to common sense traces of science, this action does not leave any suspicious items, indicating that other means quite clever. Does not exclude the other is the master shooting, fighting, diving techniques, and even combat may wear body armor. If this action as a planned and premeditated military action, should be considered very successful.* But not arbitrary conclusion is that after the successful implementation of this action the enemy, meritorious officers must reward, JiaGuanJinJue, will follow along with the media reports, trumpeted the so-called "heroic deeds", but did not. Things over the past 20 years, information and networks so advanced, Vietnam had not been seen in any public media reported. They do a job well done is confidential?
> 
> In addition to the newspaper, the Philippines, Malaysia, accounting for part of my Nansha Islands and, in theory, its military personnel have started to attack me in the reef may be. But the two countries have maintained friendly relations with China over the they dare decorum skin, desperate to take such a big political and military risks? Media in both countries are more open, we were not given any clues, so many years, it is no reflection.
> 
> Who killed 11 Chinese troops in Gaven Reefs in 1990 ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

Genesis said:


> This just feels so good, only the US and allies gets protests, in other words world players. Nobody ever protest against, say most of the world.
> keep it coming brothers, keep it coming. What's a rock star without a fan base.



your rig ran away, ha ha

.It is enough.


----------



## Viet

By Nga Pham
BBC News






Sailors and journalists onboard the Vietnamese coast guard ship 8003 relaxed on deck as China towed away its oil rig


China's decision to move its oil rig from waters claimed by both Beijing and Hanoi near the disputed Paracel archipelago followed more than two months of intense maritime activity.

The decision will come as a relief to Vietnamese fishermen who claim they have been harassed by Chinese coast guard ships operating in the area.

But the new calm is an uneasy one in the choppy waters of the South China Sea.

"I have news for you," Captain Nguyen Van Hung told a group of sleepy journalists on board the Vietnamese Coastguard ship 8003 on the morning on 16 July.

"The Chinese seem to have moved their rig away so we may head back sooner than planned."

The 8003 had brought a handful of foreign and local journalists to the site near the Paracels where the Chinese state oil corporation CNOOC had placed its largest deep water rig - the Haiyang Shiyou 981 - in early May so that they could see it "with their own eyes".

*Intimidating shadow
*
The previous afternoon, we had huddled together on the left side of the 8003's lower deck, trying to record on camera a cat-and-mouse chase between a dozen Chinese ships and a couple of Vietnamese vessels.

A small but agile Vietnamese fisheries boat with red and yellow stripes was flanked by two white Chinese maritime surveillance ships. Next to them, a huge Chinese vessel, the 3,000-tonne Haixun 22, cast an intimidating shadow over the chase.

The Vietnamese boat accelerated towards the coastguard ship just as two more Chinese ships appeared from behind. As the Vietnamese ships retreated, their loudspeakers blasted warnings to the Chinese ships in both Vietnamese and Chinese languages.

The chase lasted about 15 minutes, with the Chinese vessels only turning away once they were sure that the Vietnamese ships had been blocked from the rig.






Lieutenant-Colonel Ngo Minh Tung (right) was among several officials who briefed journalists






A Vietnamese fisheries boat (R) squared off with Chinese ships (L and C)






The 3,000-tonne Chinese ship Haixun 22 cast an intimidating shadow over the chase.

Similar scenes have taken place many times during the last two months. Sometimes they have turned more aggressive - each side has accused the other of ramming and using water cannon.

We were told there were at least 70 Chinese ships around the oil rig this week, while the number of Vietnamese boats was about 40.

All of them seemed to have disappeared during the night. The next morning, we woke up to an empty sea with only a couple of Vietnamese fisheries boats quietly sailing alongside our ship.

The captain said the oil rig began moving at 21:00 and by 08:00 the following morning was already some 30 nautical miles from its original location.

The Vietnamese quickly claimed victory.

"We were fighting [against the Chinese oil rig] with peaceful means… We have made them aware of their wrongful violation of Vietnamese sovereignty and so they have stopped," said Lieutenant-Colonel Ngo Minh Tung, a commander of the Vietnamese Coast Guard Zone 1.

*Uncertain future*

Vietnam's Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung hailed the "efforts by the Vietnamese people and law executing forces" and urged China "not to repeat its illegal actions".

China, meanwhile, emphasised that it was drilling in "indisputable" waters and accused Vietnam of "unjustified disruptions" to operations. State media outlets have stressed the removal of the rig had nothing to do with external pressures.

For our last dinner on board the 8003, celebratory beer and a bottle of champagne were served.

Young sailors pleased to return to shore so soon after leaving shared a few drinks and jokes, and took photos. We exchanged phone numbers and befriended each other on Facebook.

Only a couple of older officers did not seem so sure.

A veteran, who had served a long time in the Vietnamese navy before joining the coast guard, said the move of the rig was "good news".

"But we never know what will happen next, do we?" he asked.

Vietnam and China have had a long and turbulent history littered with conflict and mistrust.

Both countries claim sovereignty over the Paracels and adjacent waters. The Vietnamese say it is their traditional fishing grounds while the Chinese claim it lies within the so-called nine-dash line - which it uses to claim much of the South China Sea.

Nobody is prepared to give up sovereignty and so the waters of the South China Sea will remain a potential flashpoint, perhaps for a very long time.

As we were leaving the recently vacated oil rig site, Typhoon Rammasun was lashing the Philippines on its way north to the South China Sea.

With the storm looming, the sea was dark and unsettled - like the choppy relationship between Beijing and Hanoi.

BBC News - Vietnamese pop champagne as Chinese oil rig leaves


----------



## xesy

Can't say we are victorious yet. China will come back, with more rigs, ships and airplanes. We must be ready to face them when the time comes.


----------



## Viet

I guess the faces of delusional chinese posters here will turn from green to red because of anger.

It is too funny.

Yes, I know its just the beginning.


----------



## Edison Chen

Viet said:


> I guess the faces of delusional chinese posters here will turn from green to red because of anger.
> 
> It is too funny.
> 
> Yes, I know its just the beginning.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Mr Second Back

Viet said:


> I guess the faces of delusional chinese posters here will turn from green to red because of anger.
> 
> It is too funny.
> 
> Yes, I know its just the beginning.


You idiot have dropped in deeply with your "patriotism" so called. Or please leave Germany and stay in that area no metter the storm "Rammasun" is coming. And can you represent Vietnam government? If not, so shut up. Or you'd better encourage Vietnam government and keep annoying China, and everybody can see what Vietnam can get at last. Some of you guys are totelly mad.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Snomannen

Doesn't matter, had oil.


----------



## Mr Second Back

I suggest Vietnam member should take care the typhoon first, the Chinese oil rig will not suffer the storm since it has moved back, but houses cannot move. Storms come every year, people should prepare for that.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Edison Chen

EastSea said:


> your rig ran away, ha ha
> 
> .It is enough.



We can still be brothers if VN people apologize sincerely, do you agree with me, east sea?


----------



## NiceGuy

Mr Second Back said:


> You idiot have dropped in deeply with your "patriotism" so called. Or please leave Germany and stay in that area no metter the storm "Rammasun" is coming. And can you represent Vietnam government? If not, so shut up. Or you'd better encourage Vietnam government and keep annoying China, and everybody can see what Vietnam can get at last. Some of you guys are totelly mad.


Stupid boy, our Govt. is not a dictatorship Govt. It is the present and work for the benefit of all VNese including over sea VNese (OV). The foreign money from OV help the country a lot in building a stable economy that dont depend too much on any super power nations.

When we can unite the sub-Mekong region to get stronger, u guys never can imagine what we will revenge on ur China and other nations that dare to attack, invade and killed VNese in history. Small countries that helped big countries to attack VN should learn the lesson from Champa- Khmer-Pol Pot and the last riots against China. The revenge will not be easy for them


----------



## Mr Second Back

NiceGuy said:


> Stupid boy, our Govt. is not a dictatorship Govt. It is the present and work for the benefit of all VNese including over sea VNese (OV). The foreign money from OV help the country a lot in building a stable economy that dont depend too much on any super power nations.
> 
> When we can unite the sub-Mekong region to get stronger, u guys never can imagine what we will revenge on ur China and other nations dare to attack and invade VN in history. Small countries that helped big countries to attack VN should learn the lesson from Champa and Khmer and the last riots against China. The revenge will not be easy for them


Dont want to argue with you such silly. At least, I have bought the ticket and take my parents in law leave Vietnam couples of days ago. Dont care what you said democracy or dictatorship or United Mekong.


----------



## NiceGuy

Mr Second Back said:


> I suggest Vietnam member should take care the typhoon first, the Chinese oil rig will not suffer the storm since it has moved back, but houses cannot move. Storms come every year, people should prepare for that.


Typhoon come and go every years, we wont have big problem with it.



Mr Second Back said:


> Dont want to argue with you such silly. At least, I have bought the ticket and take my parents in law leave Vietnam couples of days ago. Dont care what you said democracy or dictatorship or United Mekong.


Yeah, u dont need to care bcz half of ur family is VNese. Im talking to let other idiot guys from the countries that attack and killed VNese in history to know what will happen to their countries when VN become stronger.

Even China with huge forces still can not have a chance to win VN. So, if they did bad things to VN in history, then its time for them to say sorry before too late. We r timid people in peace time, but we r very crazy at war time


----------



## Mr Second Back

NiceGuy said:


> Typhoon come and go every years, we wont have big problem with it.
> 
> 
> Yeah, u dont need to care bcz half of ur family is VNese. Im talking to let other idiot guys from the countries that attack and killed VNese in history to know what will happen to their countries when VN become stronger.
> 
> Even China with huge forces still can not have a chance to win VN. So, if they did bad things to VN in history, then its time for them to say sorry before too late. We r timid people in peace time, but we r very crazy at war time


Make 90 million people Vietnam's GDP per captal over 1.4 billion China first, or what you said is nothing but make Vietnam 's imagine as a joke.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

Mr Second Back said:


> You idiot have dropped in deeply with your "patriotism" so called. Or please leave Germany and stay in that area no metter the storm "Rammasun" is coming. And can you represent Vietnam government? If not, so shut up. Or you'd better encourage Vietnam government and keep annoying China, and everybody can see what Vietnam can get at last. Some of you guys are totelly mad.


Are you angry now? 
It's so funny as I said 

By the way, what does your wife think of the oil rig, as she is vietnamese? Just curious.


----------



## dray

Congratulations Vietnam for your victory.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Edison Chen

Mr Second Back said:


> Make 90 million people Vietnam's GDP per captal over 1.4 billion China first, or what you said is nothing but make Vietnam 's imagine as a joke.



They have fewer people, yet their GDP per capital is far less than China's, so is the growth rate.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NiceGuy

Mr Second Back said:


> Make 90 million people Vietnam's GDP per captal over 1.4 billion China first, or what you said is nothing but make Vietnam 's imagine as a joke.


Have u ever read the fable "The Dog and the Wolf" ?? And do u know why the wolf would rather chose the hard -poor life than the 'good' life like a dog ??

China accept to be divided into 2 parts to get money from JP-US from 1978 , just like u guys accept a collar on ur neck. Sorry, we cant do the same thing like u .

Btw: if u never read, then this is the link of the fable 


> *The Dog and the Wolf *
> 
> *A gaunt Wolf was almost dead with hunger when he happened to meet a House-dog who was passing by.*
> 
> *"Ah, Cousin," said the Dog.
> "I knew how it would be; your irregular life will soon be the ruin of you. Why do you not work steadily as I do, and get your food regularly given to you?"
> 
> "I would have no objection," said the Wolf, "if I could only get a place."
> 
> "I will easily arrange that for you," said the Dog; "come with me to my master and you shall share my work."
> 
> So the Wolf and the Dog went towards the town together. On the way there the Wolf noticed that the hair on a certain part of the Dog's neck was very much worn away, so he asked him how that had come about.
> 
> "Oh, it is nothing," said the Dog. "That is only the place where the collar is put on at night to keep me chained up; it chafes a bit, but one soon gets used to it."
> 
> "Is that all?" said the Wolf. "Then good-bye to you, Master Dog."*
> 
> The Dog and the Wolf an Aesop's Fable


----------



## Mr Second Back

Viet said:


> Are you angry now?
> It's so funny as I said
> 
> By the way, what does your wife think of the oil rig, as she is vietnamese? Just curious.


We care our life quality more than politics. We must pay a lot of rent when we spend our holiday in Germany, and now the typhoon is coming, so we care more about family's situation in Vietnam. You can get nothing from oil rig or United Mekong, but make yourself have a better Life is Always right. People will Always respect or show interest on a person who drive Porsche, but not a begger, and talking more cannot give you a better Life.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NiceGuy

Present the Medal of hero for VN marine police forces after successfuly kick China out of VN's water


----------



## NiceGuy

Mr Second Back said:


> We care our life quality more than politics. We must pay a lot of rent when we spend our holiday in Germany, and now the typhoon is coming, so we care more about family's situation in Vietnam. You can get nothing from oil rig or United Mekong, but make yourself have a better Life is Always right. People will Always respect or show interest on a person who drive Porsche, but not a begger, and talking more cannot give you a better Life.


Maybe There r only two way to make yourself have a better Life

1. Kill and bully people and become the Boss

2. Accept the collar on the neck and get some bones and left-over food from the boss.

I think u like the second way


----------



## Mr Second Back

NiceGuy said:


> Maybe There r only two way to make yourself have a better Life
> 
> 1. Kill and bully people and become the Boss
> 
> 2. Accept the collar on the neck and get some bones and left-over food from the boss.
> 
> I think u like the second way


As your ability or knowledge, you can bully whom?


----------



## NiceGuy

Mr Second Back said:


> As your ability or knowledge, you can bully whom?


We just try to survive like the wolf first, at least we feel quite happy with our freedom .


----------



## EastSea

Edison Chen said:


> We can still be brothers if VN people apologize sincerely, do you agree with me, east sea?



stupid troll. china man !

China invaded from ancient time in to Vietnam's soil and robbed our Islands, Chinese are dirty aggressors,


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

NiceGuy said:


> Stupid boy, *our Govt. is not a dictatorship *Govt. It is the present and work for the benefit of all VNese including over sea VNese (OV). The foreign money from OV help the country a lot in building a stable economy that dont depend too much on any super power nations.
> 
> When we can unite the sub-Mekong region to get stronger, u guys never can imagine what we will revenge on ur China and other nations that dare to attack, invade and killed VNese in history. Small countries that helped big countries to attack VN should learn the lesson from Champa- Khmer-Pol Pot and the last riots against China. The revenge will not be easy for them


----------



## Genesis

EastSea said:


> your rig ran away, ha ha
> 
> .It is enough.



spoken just like a communist, no matter what happens as long as you still exist you win. 

But if you feel Vietnam won and China ran, cool, then you win, you are now the owner of SCS, and all belongs to you. 

While most Chinese today feel we didn't do so hot in Korea, despite the rhetoric, it's encouraging the delusion is strong within you, young skywalker.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

Mr Second Back said:


> We care our life quality more than politics. We must pay a lot of rent when we spend our holiday in Germany, and now the typhoon is coming, so we care more about family's situation in Vietnam. You can get nothing from oil rig or United Mekong, but make yourself have a better Life is Always right. People will Always respect or show interest on a person who drive Porsche, but not a begger, and talking more cannot give you a better Life.


Bla bla bla...I bet your response would be different if Japan placed oil rigs halfway between the Senkakus and China. You would see things with different eyes if the Japanese deployed a massive fleet of warships and patrol vessels into your EEZ.

Perhaps you don't care of what happens in China then, I guess many other Chinese will run mad.

What do you do on a defence forum if you're not interested? Why reading my posts? There are enough posts of other Chinese that constantly praise your peaceful rise by producing more warships.

By the way, correct is beggar, not begger.


----------



## pher

you viets don't celebare too early, our another rig is on its way. this is just rotation.


----------



## sweetgrape

Viet said:


> I guess the faces of delusional chinese posters here will turn from green to red because of anger.
> 
> It is too funny.
> 
> Yes, I know its just the beginning.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

We gave you some break, now just wait the the other one to come.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> We gave you some break, now just wait the the other one to come.



come on, mad man don't know what is wrong there when he did it.


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

*China urged to respect Vietnam sovereignty after rig removed*

Staff Writers
Friday, Jul 18,2014,01:27 (GMT+7)

HANOI – *After China’s removal of Haiyang Shiyou-981 oil rig from Vietnam’s waters, the country on July 16 urged China to respect its sovereignty by neither redeploying this rig nor parking any other oil drilling platform inside Vietnam’s exclusive economic zone.*

*Le Hai Binh, spokesman for the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, told a news conference in Hanoi on July 16 that Vietnam urged China not to bring back Haiyang Shiyou-981 or station any other rigs in Vietnam’s oil and gas Block 143 or any other areas well inside Vietnam’s exclusive economic zone and continental shelf.*

Binh made the statement on July 16 in response to news reports that China had removed the rig that it had illegally placed in Vietnam’s waters since early May.

China’s rig Haiyang Shiyou-981 and a large number of escort ships, including military vessels, had violated the exclusive economic zone and continental shelf of Vietnam. The rig’s location was about 130 nautical miles from the coast of Vietnam.

Chinese ships rammed and fired water cannons at Vietnam Coast Guard and Fisheries Resources Surveillance Force vessels that were enforcing Vietnamese maritime law within Vietnam’s exclusive economic zone and continental shelf.

The aggressive actions by the Chinese side injured many Vietnamese fisheries surveillance officers, damaged Vietnamese law enforcement ships, and even sank a Vietnamese fishing boat, Binh said.

*“Vietnam has again reiterated that the area where Haiyang Shiyou-981 had operated since early May belongs to Vietnam’s exclusive economic zone and continental shelf. Operations of the rig and escort ships of China over the past two months in the area are grossly illegal, infringing international law, including the 1982 UNCLOS,” the spokesman added.*

According to the High Command of Vietnam Coast Guard, the oil rig was moving north-northwest toward China’s Hainan Island on Tuesday. The rig and the fleet of nearly 60 escort ships were moving at a speed of 4-4.2 nautical miles per hour.

At 6:20 a.m. on July 16, it was 41 nautical miles from its previous position, about 163 nautical miles southwest of Hainan Island. The Vietnamese law enforcement forces are closely watching their movement.

*Meanwhile, 13 Vietnamese fishermen detained by China several days ago have been set free, according to the Vietnamese Embassy in China.*

“They are on their way home on a fishing boat of Quang Binh coded QB93256 TS,” Luong Thanh Quang, assistant to chief of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs’ Consulate General Department, was quoted by Vietnamplus as saying.

The fishermen include seven crewmembers of QB 93256 TS boat from Quang Binh and six of QNg 94912 TS vessel from Quang Ngai.

The Chinese side kept the Quang Ngai boat and fishing tools of the two vessels on June 25 and July 3.

*Vietnam’s spokesman Binh stressed that Vietnam wants an amicable settlement of disputes in the East Sea on the basis of international law, including the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS). China was asked to respect Vietnam’s sovereignty, sovereign rights and jurisdiction to the exclusive economic zone and continental shelf.*

Vietnam resolutely defends its sovereignty and sovereign rights in conformity with international law, Binh added.

At a meeting on law drafting on July 16, Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung protecting Vietnam’s sovereignty is a sacred task requiring ceaseless efforts and determination to take appropriate actions against all the behavior that violates the nation’s dependence and sovereignty over land, waters and islands.

China urged to respect Vietnam sovereignty after rig removed - China urged to respect Vietnam sovereignty after rig removed - SaiGon Times Daily

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Edison Chen

EastSea said:


> stupid troll. china man !
> 
> China invaded from ancient time in to Vietnam's soil and robbed our Islands, Chinese are dirty aggressors,



We will grab your whole land, you women, your resources if you invade China.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Aepsilons

Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> *China urged to respect Vietnam sovereignty after rig removed*
> 
> Staff Writers
> Friday, Jul 18,2014,01:27 (GMT+7)
> 
> HANOI – *After China’s removal of Haiyang Shiyou-981 oil rig from Vietnam’s waters, the country on July 16 urged China to respect its sovereignty by neither redeploying this rig nor parking any other oil drilling platform inside Vietnam’s exclusive economic zone.*
> 
> *Le Hai Binh, spokesman for the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, told a news conference in Hanoi on July 16 that Vietnam urged China not to bring back Haiyang Shiyou-981 or station any other rigs in Vietnam’s oil and gas Block 143 or any other areas well inside Vietnam’s exclusive economic zone and continental shelf.*
> 
> Binh made the statement on July 16 in response to news reports that China had removed the rig that it had illegally placed in Vietnam’s waters since early May.
> 
> China’s rig Haiyang Shiyou-981 and a large number of escort ships, including military vessels, had violated the exclusive economic zone and continental shelf of Vietnam. The rig’s location was about 130 nautical miles from the coast of Vietnam.
> 
> Chinese ships rammed and fired water cannons at Vietnam Coast Guard and Fisheries Resources Surveillance Force vessels that were enforcing Vietnamese maritime law within Vietnam’s exclusive economic zone and continental shelf.
> 
> The aggressive actions by the Chinese side injured many Vietnamese fisheries surveillance officers, damaged Vietnamese law enforcement ships, and even sank a Vietnamese fishing boat, Binh said.
> 
> *“Vietnam has again reiterated that the area where Haiyang Shiyou-981 had operated since early May belongs to Vietnam’s exclusive economic zone and continental shelf. Operations of the rig and escort ships of China over the past two months in the area are grossly illegal, infringing international law, including the 1982 UNCLOS,” the spokesman added.*
> 
> According to the High Command of Vietnam Coast Guard, the oil rig was moving north-northwest toward China’s Hainan Island on Tuesday. The rig and the fleet of nearly 60 escort ships were moving at a speed of 4-4.2 nautical miles per hour.
> 
> At 6:20 a.m. on July 16, it was 41 nautical miles from its previous position, about 163 nautical miles southwest of Hainan Island. The Vietnamese law enforcement forces are closely watching their movement.
> 
> *Meanwhile, 13 Vietnamese fishermen detained by China several days ago have been set free, according to the Vietnamese Embassy in China.*
> 
> “They are on their way home on a fishing boat of Quang Binh coded QB93256 TS,” Luong Thanh Quang, assistant to chief of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs’ Consulate General Department, was quoted by Vietnamplus as saying.
> 
> The fishermen include seven crewmembers of QB 93256 TS boat from Quang Binh and six of QNg 94912 TS vessel from Quang Ngai.
> 
> The Chinese side kept the Quang Ngai boat and fishing tools of the two vessels on June 25 and July 3.
> 
> *Vietnam’s spokesman Binh stressed that Vietnam wants an amicable settlement of disputes in the East Sea on the basis of international law, including the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS). China was asked to respect Vietnam’s sovereignty, sovereign rights and jurisdiction to the exclusive economic zone and continental shelf.*
> 
> Vietnam resolutely defends its sovereignty and sovereign rights in conformity with international law, Binh added.
> 
> At a meeting on law drafting on July 16, Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung protecting Vietnam’s sovereignty is a sacred task requiring ceaseless efforts and determination to take appropriate actions against all the behavior that violates the nation’s dependence and sovereignty over land, waters and islands.
> 
> China urged to respect Vietnam sovereignty after rig removed - China urged to respect Vietnam sovereignty after rig removed - SaiGon Times Daily




This is a welcoming sign, indeed.


----------



## terranMarine

Nihonjin1051 said:


> This is a welcoming sign, indeed.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

@cnleio : do you remember what I predict last month that "next month ( July ) China govt would go downstair ?
we all know that recent statement only for relaxing Chinese people purpose ...

Removal of the oil rig is the best choice for China benefit ... 

I just was banned for no reason, by a Chinese moderator, I think. it's unfair compare to this dirty talking guy @CN Black or troll Jlaw.


----------



## Jlaw

BoQ77 said:


> @cnleio : do you remember what I predict last month that "next month ( July ) China govt would go downstair ?
> we all know that recent statement only for relaxing Chinese people purpose ...
> 
> Removal of the oil rig is the best choice for China benefit ...
> 
> I just was banned for no reason, by a Chinese moderator, I think. it's unfair compare to this dirty talking guy @CN Black or troll Jlaw.



A great victory for Viet 

don't cry again when they come closer next time to vietnam mainland with more oil rigs.


----------



## BoQ77

Jlaw said:


> A great victory for Viet
> 
> don't cry again when they come closer next time to vietnam mainland with more oil rigs.



next time would be harder time for both, let's see.
I expect that when China bring another floating milestone to Vietnam EEZ, USA did lift the lethal weapon embargo.

I love some LRASM

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

Edison Chen said:


> We will grab your whole land, you women, your resources if you invade China.



Wet dream of China. 

we protect our country sovereignty.


----------



## Edison Chen

EastSea said:


> Wet dream of China.
> 
> we protect our country sovereignty.



VN should kneel down to China, and beg for forgiveness.


----------



## EastSea

Genesis said:


> spoken just like a communist, no matter what happens as long as you still exist you win.
> But if you feel Vietnam won and China ran, cool, then you win, you are now the owner of SCS, and all belongs to you.
> While most Chinese today feel we didn't do so hot in Korea, despite the rhetoric, it's encouraging the delusion is strong within you, young skywalker.



Paracel and Spatly Islands belong to us, not all SCS. only chinese have an illusion to rob Islands of Vietnam with force, it is wrong.



Edison Chen said:


> VN should kneel down to China, and beg for forgiveness.



mad man ! don't say idiot thing here.


----------



## tranquilium

NiceGuy said:


> Yeah, u always find a good excuse for ur withdrawal. In fact, if ur rig try to stay, our frogmen , our Kilos will come during the storm and destroy it, and u only can blame the storm that destroy ur rig



Yes and in a year of time when South Sea 4 finishes the operation, we can expect another China withdrawn thread.


----------



## NiceGuy

Edison Chen said:


> We will grab your whole land, you women, your resources if you invade China.


JP invaded ur land, rape ur gilrs etc. what u can do is keep begging JP for some cheap Yen in 1978 



tranquilium said:


> Yes and in a year of time when South Sea 4 finishes the operation, we can expect another China withdrawn thread.


Whatever. the World see ur huge forces in Paracel were humiliated by VN small forces again after 1979 war and had to withdraw unconditionally .

Seems like Mr Xi's position is in danger bcz of his incompetent in fighting with enemies to protect 'China sovereignty' now 



terranMarine said:


>


Poor Chinese peasant wont accept their Tax will be waste again in SCS(east sea)


----------



## terranMarine

money is not the issue, more rigs to follow


----------



## Edison Chen

lol, seriously I find this NiceGuy has some cognitive dissonance, are you ok, my son?


----------



## NiceGuy

Edison Chen said:


> lol, seriously I find this NiceGuy has some cognitive dissonance, are you ok, my son?


U said that China will do some bad things if VN invade ur land, but why JP invaded ur land, raped ur families, then u dare not fight with them but keep begging them for some cheap Yen instead ??



terranMarine said:


> money is not the issue, more rigs to follow


No one bet on losing Horse. Even dumbest Chinese peasant also can not believe and keep wasting his Tax for Mr. Xi now


----------



## Edison Chen

NiceGuy said:


> U said that China will do some bad things if VN invade ur land, but why JP invaded ur land, raped ur families, then u dare not fight with them but keep begging them for some cheap Yen instead ??



China didn't claim post-WW2 compensation, but in return, Japan issued long-term debt with low interest to China. This is compensation in another form.


----------



## NiceGuy

Edison Chen said:


> China didn't claim post-WW2 compensation, but in return, Japan issued long-term debt with low interest to China. This is compensation in another form.


Okay, then it means after invade China, rape and kill millions Chinese if a country (such as JP) have money to pay for u guys, then u guys will be happy to take the money, right ??

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

CCG 1307 or CCG 3308？







HPS has turned itself into a sausage maker。


----------



## EastSea

cirr said:


> CCG 1307 or CCG 3308？
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HPS has turned itself into a sausage maker。



what is in dark here ? chinese thief like do his job at night. ...


----------



## tranquilium

NiceGuy said:


> JP invaded ur land, rape ur gilrs etc. what u can do is keep begging JP for some cheap Yen in 1978
> 
> 
> Whatever. the World see ur huge forces in Paracel were humiliated by VN small forces again after 1979 war and had to withdraw unconditionally .
> 
> Seems like Mr Xi's position is in danger bcz of his incompetent in fighting with enemies to protect 'China sovereignty' now
> 
> 
> Poor Chinese peasant wont accept their Tax will be waste again in SCS(east sea)



Considering the casualty and the damage inflicted, I think another "humiliation" is quite acceptable. Though in term of naval battles between Vietnam and China, I think the little skirmish at Johnson South Reef in 1988 is telling enough, don't you think?


----------



## NiceGuy

tranquilium said:


> Considering the casualty and the damage inflicted, I think another "humiliation" is quite acceptable. Though in term of naval battles between Vietnam and China, I think the little skirmish at Johnson South Reef in 1988 is telling enough, don't you think?


in 1988, we didnt have Naval forces and no marine police ship too. We didnt have anything but soldiers with AK-47 to protect the islands. If u think *using warship to kill soldiers with AK-47 *only *is the great Naval battle victory,* thern Ok, thats up to u guys, but we really didnt have warship that time, so no one think that skirmish can be called as Naval battle .

At least, we show to the world that No VN soldiers surrendered in 1988 even they didnt have anything to fight back ur warship.

Things changed now, we have Kilos, Gepard , patrol ship , and the whole world can see who just kick out who in the Oil rig conflict.


----------



## cnleio

BoQ77 said:


> @cnleio : do you remember what I predict last month that "next month ( July ) China govt would go downstair ?
> we all know that recent statement only for relaxing Chinese people purpose ...
> 
> Removal of the oil rig is the best choice for China benefit ...
> 
> I just was banned for no reason, by a Chinese moderator, I think. it's unfair compare to this dirty talking guy @CN Black or troll Jlaw.


H981 oil rig didn't find out any oil in that waterarea, sooner or later it will remove to another place. It's just a oil rig, can back or come.

If u mean H981 leaving == China govt go downstair, next time another China oil rig back it means China govt go upstair ? There'r different things, the truth is no oilfield in that waterarea.


----------



## NiceGuy

cnleio said:


> H981 oil rig didn't find out any oil in that waterarea, sooner or later it will remove to another place. It's just a oil rig, can back or come.
> 
> If u mean H981 leaving == China govt go downstair, next time another China oil rig back it means China govt go upstair ? There'r different things, the truth is no oilfield in that waterarea.


Under our forces's under pressure, ur oil rig had to keep moving from here to there every day, it didnt have enough time to explore the area carefully, so how could u know that area dont have Oil ??


----------



## cnleio

NiceGuy said:


> Under our forces's under pressure, ur oil rig had to keep moving from here to there every day, it didnt have enough time to explore the area carefully, so how could u know that area dont have Oil ??


Coz H981 oil rig drill the hole ... China didn't have only one oil rig like H981.


----------



## BoQ77

cnleio said:


> H981 oil rig didn't find out any oil in that waterarea, sooner or later it will remove to another place. It's just a oil rig, can back or come.
> 
> If u mean H981 leaving == China govt go downstair, next time another China oil rig back it means China govt go upstair ? There'r different things, the truth is no oilfield in that waterarea.


Yes, at the time we predict, we consider withdrawal all of Chinese ships is going downstair.
and absolute, we consider putting the oil rig into disputed area as raise tension ...

You think that some saying of Chinese as China shot some satellite photos to estimate the location of oil potential source are wrong?

We know that in advance, there's no oil at all.



cnleio said:


> Coz H981 oil rig drill the hole ... China didn't have only one oil rig like H981.



Do you know that Iran few month ago cancelled the several billion dollars value contract with CNPC , due to CNPC delayed in process requirements of drill few hundreds drill in the assigned oil block ? even 90 days after reminding time ?

Believe me, 981 never drill any hole ...

And yes, 981 is the only one of its kind ... 
Next time, the similar oil rig of Vietnam would drill hundreds holes in deep sea water level


----------



## cnleio

BoQ77 said:


> Believe me, 981 never drill any hole ...
> 
> And yes, 981 is the only one of its kind ...
> Next time, the similar oil rig of Vietnam would drill hundreds holes in deep sea water level


981 oil rig can ...


----------



## BoQ77

China play a trick, to drill the first in 9 May 2012 near Hongkong, not 9 May 2014 in Vietnam EEZ.
but as I tracked, they keep the posting of first drill 2012 up to front around the beginning of May 2014 as they start drill something in our EEZ ... But they lied.

Few days floating and move back 23 miles not enough for first drill

So the photos still show the first drill in 9 May


----------



## cnleio

BoQ77 said:


> China play a trick, to drill the first in 9 May 2012 near Hongkong, not 9 May 2014
> but as I tracked, they keep the posting of first drill 2012 up to front around the beginning of May 2014 as they start drill something
> But move back 23 miles right after few days.
> 
> So the photos still show the first drill in 9 May


Bro, i just tell u the Chinese built large oil rig and export them.
H981 is just the one of oil rigs which China govnt can deploy in SCS.


----------



## BoQ77

*China's 1st deep-water rig to begin operations in sea area*

China's first deep-water drilling rig CNOOC 981 *started operations in the South China Sea *at 9: 38 a.m. on Wednesday, marking "a substantial step" made by the country's deep-sea oil industry. The sixth-generation semi-submersible CNOOC 981 *began drilling in a sea area 320 km southeast of Hong Kong at a water depth of 1,500 meter*s, according to China National Offshore Oil Corp. (CNOOC), the country's largest offshore oil producer.






Crew members of deep-water drilling rig CNOOC 981 gather to watch a drill bit go down t*o explore in the South China Sea, south China, May 9, 2012. *(Xinhua/Jin Liangkuai)

cnleio : good luck, but our specialists know that 981 still a semi imported oil rig


----------



## cnleio

BoQ77 said:


> cnleio : good luck, but our specialists know that 981 still a semi imported oil rig


HAHA, ur specialists just lying to ur Vietnamese ppl. A pic of H981 oil rig building in ShangHai.
If ur specialists can read Chinese ... "海洋石油981"















China building “海洋981” oil rig pics


----------



## BoQ77

Yes there's possibility that they lied us, or not. Why we don't doubt about something not sure.
How you know by photos that the oil rig has not some major parts imported ?


----------



## BoQ77

China bought this IN 2006 , @cnleio valued 4.6 bill from FG
Semi-Submersibles | Friede & Goldman Ltd.

*ExD*
The F&G ExD design is an ideal rig for operations in worldwide moderate environments: South & Southeast China Sea, West Africa, Gulf of Mexico, and Brazil, for instance. The ExD operates in water depths up to 3,050 meters. To date, nine ExD semi-submersible drilling units have been constructed and delivered with five more in fabrication.

GENERAL DESCRIPTION Metric
Quarters Capacity 180 man
Operating Water Depth 3,050 m
Max. Transit Variable Deck Load 4,500 m.tons
Max. Drilling Variable Deck Load 9,000 m.tons
Heliport Sikorsky S-92
Drilling Depth 11,430 m

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cnleio

BoQ77 said:


> China bought this IN 2006 , @cnleio valued 4.6 bill from FG
> Semi-Submersibles | Friede & Goldman Ltd.
> 
> *ExD*
> The F&G ExD design is an ideal rig for operations in worldwide moderate environments: South & Southeast China Sea, West Africa, Gulf of Mexico, and Brazil, for instance. The ExD operates in water depths up to 3,050 meters. To date, nine ExD semi-submersible drilling units have been constructed and delivered with five more in fabrication.
> 
> GENERAL DESCRIPTION Metric
> Quarters Capacity 180 man
> Operating Water Depth 3,050 m
> Max. Transit Variable Deck Load 4,500 m.tons
> Max. Drilling Variable Deck Load 9,000 m.tons
> Heliport Sikorsky S-92
> Drilling Depth 11,430 m


Is that 海洋981 oil rig ? I don't think so, and i had provided building pics to prove 981 Made in China step by step. (U need to see the link)


----------



## BoQ77

This is what we bought the design, equipments ... and built in Vietnam
KN781









KN782




CSB 8001




CSB 8002


----------



## NiceGuy

cnleio said:


> Coz H981 oil rig drill the hole ... China didn't have only one oil rig like H981.


So, how many day does ur oil rig need to drill one hole and from that hole, u will be able to know if it have oil or not ??

And how deep of the hole ur oil rig drilled ?? Can we see the picture of that hole ??


----------



## cnleio

BoQ77 said:


> This is what we bought the design, equipments ... and built in Vietnam


Yes, from Dutch Damen. But sorry Vietnam only built 2x now. The time when Vietnam spend on building one this ship, China shipyards can provide 4x new 2,000~3,000ton patrolling ships to China Coast Guard.


----------



## BoQ77

cnleio said:


> Yes, from Dutch Damen. But sorry Vietnam only built 2x now. The time when Vietnam spend on building one this ship, China shipyards can provide 4x new 2,000~3,000ton patrolling ships to China Coast Guard.



What we bought, we declare we bought.
Vietnam had 4x now ...

We are satisfied with the rate, because we never pursue to build the same quantity as China built.

This equipment we bought from another source and attach to Damen design ship





Vietnam could build ourselve warship upto 2,300 ton ... and soon later will be 3,000 and attach with Brahmos or Yakhont VLS supersonic antiship missiles.


----------



## cnleio

NiceGuy said:


> So, how many day does ur oil rig need to drill one hole and from that hole, u will be able to know if it have oil or not ??
> And how deep of the hole ur oil rig drilled ?? Can we see the picture of that hole ??


海洋981 oil rig can drill max 3,050m, in SCS it's 1,500m.
Sorry i didn't see pic yet, i just said 981 can drill in SCS.


----------



## NiceGuy

cnleio said:


> 海洋981 oil rig can drill max 3,050m, in SCS it's 1,500m.
> Sorry i didn't see pic yet, i just said 981 can drill in SCS.


So how many days ur oil rig need to drill a hole ?? and pls explain to people here to understand that from the hole u drilled in SCS(east sea), u will know the area have oil or not ??


----------



## cnleio

BoQ77 said:


> What we bought, we declare we bought.
> Vietnam had 4x now ...
> 
> We are satisfied with the rate, because we never pursue to build the same quantity as China built.


Well, first u need to check how many shipyards in Vietnam can build this type of ship ? Then Vietnam need some World-Level big shipyard like S.Korea and China owned.


----------



## BoQ77

NiceGuy said:


> So how many days ur oil rig need to drill a hole ?? and pls explain to people here to understand that from the hole u drilled in SCS(east sea), u will know the area have oil or not ??



If SCS level 1500, your max 1,500 mean you could only reach the bottom of the sea, not drill.
3,000 can drill ... Yes !!!



cnleio said:


> Well, first u need to check how many shipyards in Vietnam can build this type of ship ? Then Vietnam need some World-Level big shipyard like S.Korea and China owned.



My pic show 4 ... yes or no?
Our habitant is produce at the same time a couple of ship.

2 Kilo-class submarine to received, 2 more would be delivered this year.
2 Molniya missile colvette project 1241.8 ( Russia design ) with 16x KH35EV each delivered recently, 2 more launched, and 2 others started to final assembled in the Southern shipyard. Total 6 plus 2 bought from Russia.

2x KN 781, 782 ( Damen design ), 2,400 ton nearly done in the Middle land shipyard
1 more CSB 8002 ( Damen design ) , 2300 ton early launch would coupled with CSB 8001 same size ... in Northern shipyard.
Several 40xx serie ships completing too.

There's not only 1 shipyard each region. And there is not only 1 ship built at each shipyard at the same time.
We could build several 70,000-105,000 ton ships so if get know how for warship which is much smaller, we could done some at once.

6x CASA 212 seaplanes for Coastguard

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NiceGuy

BoQ77 said:


> If SCS level 1500, your max 1,500 mean you could only reach the bottom of the sea, not drill.
> 3,000 can drill ... Yes !!!


I think Chinese here also dont believe that their oil rig withdraw bcz it found no oil. I predict that Mr. Xi's position is in danger now, coz many people r questioning abt his ability in fighting with 'enemies' to protect 'China sovereignties'. He wasted lots of Tax in the conflict but gain Nothing.

How could China let a loser and incompetent guy like Mr. XI become the leader


----------



## cnleio

BoQ77 said:


> My pic show 4 ... yes or no?


Four new 2,100ton patrolling ships ... *2,100ton* ... when Vietnam begin to build this type of ship ???

I don't know the detail numbers of China Coast Guard ships, there'r hundreds.

Pls let me using the PLAN 056 class corvette as a example:
China 1,300~1,400ton 056 corvette, 1st 056 built in 2012.05.23 in ShangHai, now China had built 18x 056 corvettes (13x 056 served in PLAN and 6x in shipyard). From 2012.05 to 2014.07, China built 18x 056 corvettes.

Many years ago S.Korea is the N.o1 world ship building nation,China behind. Recent years China replace S.Korea is the N.o1 and export 40% ships to the world. (just google)

4x 2,100ton ships r the most advanced ship which Vietnam can build now, but 4x little boats for China shipbuilding industry, they'r nothing.


----------



## BoQ77

@cnleio: we do not have so many enemies as China has ...


----------



## NiceGuy

cnleio said:


> Four new 2,100ton patrolling ships ... *2,100ton* ... when Vietnam begin to build this type of ship ???
> 
> I don't know the detail numbers of China Coast Guard ships, there'r hundreds.
> 
> Pls let me using the PLAN 056 class corvette as a example:
> China 1,300~1,400ton 056 corvette, 1st 056 built in 2012.05.23 in ShangHai, now China had built 18x 056 corvettes (13x 056 served in PLAN and 6x in shipyard). From 2012.05 to 2014.07, China built 18x 056 corvettes.
> 
> Many years ago S.Korea is the N.o1 world ship building nation,China behind. Recent years China replace S.Korea is the N.o1 and export 40% ships to the world. (just google)
> 
> 4x 2,100ton ships r the most advanced ship which Vietnam can build now, but 4x little boats for China shipbuilding industry, they'r nothing.


SCS(east sea) is a small sea, small and medium ship r fit with it. Big ship is easy to become big target of anti-ship missile.


----------



## cnleio

BoQ77 said:


> @cnleio: we do not have so many enemies as China has ...


China's enemies more than Vietnam, but China's friends much more than urs in Europe/ America/ Africa/ Asia.
China get more powers than Vietnam on the world stage. If u did business, "the power & beneift come from the threat."



NiceGuy said:


> SCS(east sea) is a small sea, small and medium ship r fit with it. Big ship is easy to become big target of anti-ship missile.


U mean American Aircraft Carrier Strike Fleet ?


----------



## NiceGuy

cnleio said:


> U mean American Aircraft Carrier Strike Fleet ?


Any kind of big warship including China big warship will become easy targets for anti-ship missile in SCS(east sea) coz SCS(east sea) is quite small.


----------



## BoQ77

cnleio said:


> but China's friends much more than urs in Europe/ America/ Africa/ Asia.


 Your 18x 1,400 ton has anywhere to operate far away from home?
I can't find any friend of you all around ...

Btw, we are interested in some advanced ship of China and don't forget India INS and Japan, South Korea DDG, because we could get something from the cooperation with those countries, not China.

India is the most suitable supplier to Vietnam Navy. Their Kolkata class and Shivalik are state of art design. They are joining us in oil exploration in SCS and their warships could call for our naval ports. 



NiceGuy said:


> Any kind of big warship including China big warship will become easy targets for anti-ship missile in SCS(east sea) coz SCS(east sea) is quite small.



As defending side, we never focus on building big warship ... but under 3,000 ton as max.
Antiship coastal missile and submarine, air dominate ... warship operate under protection range of coastal defense system are what we build for.

We expect, P3C Orion, more submarine including large quantity of domestic mini-sub in group, and LRASM and Yakhont / Brahmos missile too.

Hello !!!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cnleio

BoQ77 said:


> Your 18x 1,400 ton has anywhere to operate far away from home?
> I can't find any friend of you all around ...
> 
> Btw, we are interested in some advanced ship of China and don't forget India INS and Japan, South Korea DDG, because we could get something from the cooperation with those countries, not China.
> 
> India is the most suitable supplier to Vietnam Navy. Their Kolkata class and Shivalik are state of art.


First u should think around whether above nations like Japan, India, America like to go to War with China ? Or make friends with ours and doing trade & business in China market ? About S.Korea it always be a Chinese friend when face to Japan due to history & disputed island problem, Korean need China supports.

HAHA, Vietnam is not as powerful as u thought. Whether become enemies or friends in this century, it depned on economy relationship for each nation. China do much better than Vietnam, so we have more friends than urs.



NiceGuy said:


> Any kind of big warship including China big warship will become easy targets for anti-ship missile in SCS(east sea) coz SCS(east sea) is quite small.


Pls google American SM-II/ SM-III missile, RIM-116 and M61A1 CIWS; Chinese HHQ-9/ HHQ-16 missile, HHQ-10 and type730 CIWS. AK-630 CIWS.


----------



## BoQ77

@cnleio : Do you think China want a war to anyone ?

Do you know all big neighbors of China always have several plans to counter-strike to China ?


----------



## NiceGuy

cnleio said:


> Pls google American SM-II/ SM-III missile, RIM-116 and M61A1 CIWS; Chinese HHQ-9/ HHQ-16 missile, HHQ-10 and type730 CIWS. AK-630 CIWS.


No idea abt US missile, but everyone know China missile is just a cheap copy from Russia one


----------



## cnleio

BoQ77 said:


> @cnleio : Do you think China want a war to anyone ?
> 
> Do you know all big neighbors of China always have several plans to counter-strike to China ?


I believe anyone who shoot first bullet to China, China will fight back.

But there's a very important rule, China only fight for the victory. If there's the strongest rival shoot China like 1999 U.S bomb China embassy, China will choose to avoid it others China can fight back immediately. China will wait for weakest time of the strongest rival, Chinese can wait decades for the victory.





NiceGuy said:


> No idea abt US missile, but everyone know China missile is just a cheap copy from Russia one


Good idea for Vietnamese.


----------



## BoQ77

cnleio said:


> I believe anyone who shoot first bullet to China, China will fight back.
> 
> But there's a very important rule, China only fight for the victory. If there's the strongest rival shoot China like 1999 U.S bomb China embassy, China will choose to avoid it others China can fight back immediately. China will wait for weakest time of the strongest rival, Chinese can wait decades for the victory.
> 
> Good idea for Vietnamese.



Yes China waited for change in your own political system to cancel previous treaty as Treaties to Japan to give them Taiwan , Senkaku ... for free of Qing dynasty. estimate over 1 century. 

You are discrepancy : self defense and offending ...


----------



## cnleio

@BoQ77 Just watching China defence threads, end of 2014 or early 2015 China 2nd A.C and 055 DDGs will out. China shipbuilding industry r building many advanced ships.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

Are they all for defensive purpose ?
Keen to see 2nd AC of yours ... but I'm sorrow that cnleio always forget what we predicted and wait for true or not.

Let answer me : Am I true, last month to predict China would withdraw the oil rig and all escorts earlier than deadline ? 
you could say that you forget it ... but you would make me sad ... in person.


----------



## cnleio

BoQ77 said:


> Yes China waited for change in your own political system to cancel previous treaty as Treaties to Japan to give them Taiwan , Senkaku ... for free of Qing dynasty. estimate over 1 century.
> 
> You are discrepancy : self defense and offending ...


At least Chinese not as fool as urs to drive wood boats to challenge World N.o1 ship building nation. 4x 2,100ton ships can not change anything.



BoQ77 said:


> Are they all for defensive purpose ?
> Keen to see 2nd AC of yours ... but I'm sorrow that cnleio always forget what we predicted and wait for true or not.
> 
> Let answer me : Am I true, last month to predict China would withdraw the oil rig and all escorts earlier than deadline ?
> you could say that you forget it ... but you would make me sad ... in person.


What's the answer ? I didn't deny the 981 oil rig move to other place, isn't it ?
Relax, they will come back. It's just the beginning.


----------



## BoQ77

cnleio said:


> At least Chinese not as fool as urs to drive wood boats to challenge World N.o1 ship building nation. 4x 2,100ton ships can not change anything.
> 
> 
> What's the answer ? I didn't deny the 981 oil rig move to other place, isn't it ?
> Relax, they will come back.



If you said no oil, so what's the reason for it to come back ?

In 29 June
BoQ77 said: ↑
We have a proverb "Hit the soft, avoid the hard"
China always act as that proverb.

Next month, we would know how China goes downstair.

cnleio said: ↑
I hear rumors said Vietnam military force will plan to attack CHINA COAST GUARD boats near H981 rig coz China boats much more than VN's and stronger, is that u mean China goes downstair in next month ?

BoQ77 said : ↑
I means at that time, China leaders could measure the pro/con of the policy they follow.

Why is China trying to bully its neighbors? | Page 11
----------
And in 15 July
AP said :
*China moves oil rig out of waters Vietnam claims*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cnleio

BoQ77 said:


> If you said no oil, so what's the reason for it to come back ?
> 
> In 28 June
> BoQ77 said: ↑
> We have a proverb "Hit the soft, avoid the hard"
> China always act as that proverb.
> 
> Next month, we would know how China goes downstair.
> 
> cnleio said: ↑
> I hear rumors said Vietnam military force will plan to attack CHINA COAST GUARD boats near H981 rig coz China boats much more than VN's and stronger, is that u mean China goes downstair in next month ?
> 
> BoQ77 said : ↑
> I means at that time, China leaders could measure the pro/con of the policy they follow.
> 
> Why is China trying to bully its neighbors? | Page 11
> ----------
> And in 15 July
> AP said :
> *China moves oil rig out of waters Vietnam claims*


Well i see, u mean ur Vietnam beat China again ??? LOL, what China lost in this game, or Vietnam's economy ?

The 海洋981 oil rig is a floating boat indeed, it can sail to other waterarea then can return. Next time when China oil rigs back again, how Vietnam to face them ? Hold riots again ?

I believe China oil rig will back, it will play like the time of 1980s Sino-Vietnam border conflicts.  A China oil rig can make troubles to Vietnam society, it's cheap & effective.


----------



## NiceGuy

BoQ77 said:


> If you said no oil, so what's the reason for it to come back ?


They can come back, but we know how to kick them out already

Just like guerrilla warfare, our small forces keep harassing them day and night . Keep them to stay alert 24/24 hours, give them no chance to sleep, gain more support from our friends around the world etc then that loser will have to withdraw again 



cnleio said:


> Well i see, u mean ur Vietnam beat China again ??? LOL, what China lost in this game, or Vietnam's economy ?
> 
> The 海洋981 oil rig is a floating boat indeed, it can sail to other waterarea then can return. Next time when China oil rigs back again, how ur Vietnam to face them ? Hold riots again ?
> 
> I believe China oil rig will back, it will play like the time of 1980s Sino-Vietnam border conflicts.


Then u should volunteer to work on that oil rig, I bet that u will pee on ur pant soon coz u dont know when our frog men suddenly come and break ur neck


----------



## BoQ77

cnleio said:


> Well i see, u mean ur Vietnam beat China again ??? LOL, what China lost in this game, or Vietnam's economy ?
> 
> The 海洋981 oil rig is a floating boat indeed, it can sail to other waterarea then can return. Next time when China oil rigs back again, how Vietnam to face them ? Hold riots again ?
> 
> I believe China oil rig will back, it will play like the time of 1980s Sino-Vietnam border conflicts.  A China oil rig can make troubles to Vietnam society, it's cheap & effective.



You are too sensitive, so your saying turn to not logical.
The withdrawal ealier than scheduled is true fact. Next plan is non-related to this fact.
If you want we'd make another prediction.

I'm not Vietnamese official, not Chinese official, to make decision of changing the situation.
but I predicted 1 thing, and that come true. Just don't deny my argument is true or leading to true fact.

So what did you think when you read my prediction of China withdrawal, last month?



cnleio said:


> Well i see, u mean ur Vietnam beat China again ??? LOL, what China lost in this game, or Vietnam's economy ?
> 
> The 海洋981 oil rig is a floating boat indeed, it can sail to other waterarea then can return. Next time when China oil rigs back again, how Vietnam to face them ? Hold riots again ?
> 
> I believe China oil rig will back, it will play like the time of 1980s Sino-Vietnam border conflicts.  A China oil rig can make troubles to Vietnam society, it's cheap & effective.



I never said what you wrote, I say China would go downstair next month, by an act in real is withdrawing the oil rig out of the area.
the reason as I said, it's enough time for China leader to know how bad his policy is, and withdrawal is the way to reduce the tension ... and another fact, at the same time, China released 13 of Vietnamese fishermen, and they sailed their ship back home before the Rammasun approaches our coast.
Is it not a "goes downstair" ?

Did you see Phillipines release 9 of Chinese fishermen but bring them to court ?


----------



## cnleio

BoQ77 said:


> You are too sensitive, so your saying turn to not logical.
> I'm not Vietnamese official, not Chinese official, to make decision
> but I predicted 1 thing, and that come true. Just don't deny my argument is true or leading to true fact.
> 
> So what did you think when you read my prediction of China withdrawal, last month?


I remember i never say the 海洋981 oil rig will stay there forever, if it can floating to there, also can sail to other place. It's a oil rig to drill oilfield in SCS, wherever has the oil the 海洋981 will appear there.

I didn't care how many days 海洋981 oil rig can stay close to Vietnam coast, i just found it's interesting for Vietnamese and ur govrt to face China oil rig trouble. WHAT A MESS !!! Just a China oil rig can find out the weak of Vietnam society, it means ur ppl did not learn from last 1980s Sino-Vietnam border conflicts, the reason why Vietnam development poorer than China. Vietnam plan to waste ur energy & money to challenge a China oil rig and China Coast Guard in SCS, IT'S FUN !

For a Chinese, the 海洋981 oil rig come or leave, it didn't affect our daily life and China economy development, it didn't change anything in China. But for Vietnam, it affect ur society and the China Coast Guard still there.


----------



## BoQ77

cnleio said:


> I remember i never say the 海洋981 oil rig will stay there forever, if it can floating to there, also can sail to other place. It's a oil rig to drill oilfield in SCS, wherever has the oil the 海洋981 will appear there.
> 
> I didn't care how many days 海洋981 oil rig can stay close to Vietnam coast, i just found it's interesting for Vietnamese and ur govrt to face China oil rig trouble. WHAT A MESS !!! Just a China oil rig can find out the weak of Vietnam society, it means ur ppl did not learn from last 1980s Sino-Vietnam border conflicts, the reason why Vietnam development poorer than China. Vietnam plan to waste ur energy & money to challenge a China oil rig and China Coast Guard in SCS, IT'S FUN !
> 
> For a Chinese, the 海洋981 oil rig come or leave, it didn't affect our daily life and China economy development, it didn't change anything in China. But for Vietnam, it affect ur society and the China Coast Guard still there.



You lost many things you know ?( I mean China lost many things during the tension of oil rig incident ) 
Just a few wooden boats can change your schedule of drilling ... before your deadline is 15 August, but you must leave 1 month earlier.
Could you estimate how many person engage in the escost mission of the oil rig from China side ? including No. 999 998, and several aircrafts ...


----------



## cnleio

BoQ77 said:


> You lost many things you know ?


I didn't lost in 981, China also too. I don't know current situation of local Vietnam economy, at the end of 2014 Let's check Vietnam GDP growth.


----------



## BoQ77

cnleio said:


> I didn't lost in 981, China also too. I don't know current situation of local Vietnam economy, at the end of 2014 Let's check Vietnam GDP growth.



So today, I know that cnleio still is a conservative guy ...
You acted just like a funded guy.
I just said what I think is true by my cool mind... so I can predict properly.

For example, I wasn't obligated to say Vietnam would win, China would lose...
actually, I could say Vietnam would lose face for this or that ... or say Sorry for any bad act Vietnamese riots act to FDI companies in Vietnam.

But China never say Sorry to Japanese FDI


----------



## cnleio

BoQ77 said:


> So today, I know that cnleio still is a conservative guy ...


I belong to Middle pro-conservative... anyway, good night.
Tomorrow continue.


----------



## BoQ77

Good night cnleio ; you are still the best Chinese member here in my eyes.


----------



## cnleio

BoQ77 said:


> Good night cnleio ; you are still the best Chinese member here in my eyes.


Thank you. 

BTW see this thread, u can understand what i do in my daily life. Recent weeks Job is busy, so i might spend few time in PDF.


----------



## cirr

*CCG 3104*

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## EastSea

cirr said:


> *CCG 3104*


----------



## cirr




----------



## EastSea

cirr said:


>


one more ship of sea pirates. .


----------



## BoQ77

BoQ77 said:


> This is what we bought the design, equipments ... and built in Vietnam
> KN781
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KN782
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CSB 8001
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CSB 8002


----------



## BoQ77

I'm not sure. But below is one of biggest vessel built by Vietnam.

You could google the shipyard by "Southeast Asia biggest drydock", the drydock could build 300,000 DWT and 100,000DWT at the same time or 600,000 DWT.

The same drydock Chinese Qingdao Beihai Shipbuilding Heavy Industry Co,.Ltd. ( to be briefly called as"B.H.I.") is one of the large key-shipyards under the China Shipbuilding Industry Corporation ( CSIC ).

*Dry Dock No1*

Dimensions
(L x B x D)

No.1 Dock

450,000 DWT

380M x 85M x 14 M

350Tons Crane x 1 set

150Tons Crane x 2 set

120Tons Crane x 3 set


*Dry Dock No2*

Dimensions
(L x B x D)

No.2 Dock

?00,000 DWT

510M x 110M x 14 M

700Tons Crane x 1 set

150Tons Crane x 2 set

35Tons Crane x 2 set



















cnleio said:


> Well, first u need to check how many shipyards in Vietnam can build this type of ship ? Then Vietnam need some World-Level big shipyard like S.Korea and China owned.


----------



## Edison Chen

EastSea said:


> one more ship of sea pirates. .



VN! Dirty aggressor!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

areal said:


> Poor viet, using ship instead of tau in their factory, even Vietnamese has been forgotten right after han chu
> 
> 
> how far these toy models can sail ?



Do you mean this Chinese shipbuild ? Your Chinese prefer English ?


----------



## BoQ77

areal said:


> how far these toy models can sail ?



Range for KN782, DN2000 class : 5,000 nautical miles
Enough for protecting our sea , and larger range than China Type 052D ..

And China has no friendly harbor around for supplement


----------



## BoQ77

Look at your Nike / Adidas / Puma / Reebok shoes ... they almost made in Vietnam


----------



## cirr

*China builds oil fleet to exploit contested South China Sea*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## eazzy

^ Sounds good.


----------



## cirr

A new force in the SCS：


----------



## Rechoice

*US considers lifting ban on lethal weapon sales*
_Vietnam and the US are seeking wider cooperation in various fields after the US ban on lethal weapon sales to Vietnam is removed._





Deputy Defence Minister Senior Lieut. Gen. Truong Quang Khanh on August 4 received visiting US Senator Bob Corker, Ranking Member of the US Senate Committee on Foreign Relations.

Khanh affirmed that the Vietnam government and people always attach great importance to maintaining peaceful relations with other nations, in the best interest of national development.

During periods of peace, the Vietnam State and People’s Army have continually developed defence ties with other countries, including the US, Khanh told his guest.

Regarding East Sea issue, he reiterated Vietnam’s consistent policy of settling disputes through peaceful measures in accordance with international law.

Senator Corker said the US Senate is considering lifting its ban on lethal weapon sales to Vietnam.

He also highlighted the Vietnam-US fruitful relations, adding that the two sides are nearing agreement on the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) agreement.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Minjitta

Edison Chen said:


> VN! Dirty aggressor!


are you mocking china LOL!!!


----------



## betonamujin1902

*U.S. to monitor South China Sea for de-escalation after China rebuff*
Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:19pm GMT

By Lesley Wroughton

SYDNEY (Reuters) - The United States will monitor the South China Sea to see whether "de-escalatory steps" are being taken, a U.S. State Department official said on Monday, a day after China resisted pressure to rein in actions in the disputed waters.

The official spoke as U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry arrived in Sydney for talks on regional security with Australian officials, that will also involve Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel.

A U.S. proposal for a freeze on provocative acts in the South China Sea got a cool response from China and some Southeast Asian nations at a regional meeting at the weekend, an apparent setback to U.S. efforts to thwart China's assertive moves.

The U.S. official said the United States would follow up on those talks by assessing an ASEAN-China meeting due in a few weeks time on implementing a 2002 declaration on conduct in the South China Sea, something that "equates to the freeze."

"We will also be monitoring the actual situation around the rocks, reefs, and shoals in the South China Sea," he said.

China's Xinhua state news agency accused Washington of "stoking the flames," and "further emboldening countries like the Philippines and Vietnam to take a hardline stance against China, raising suspicion over the real intention of the United States and make an amicable solution more difficult to reach."

"It is a painful reality that Uncle Sam has left too many places in chaos after it stepped in, as what people are witnessing now in Iraq, Syria and Libya," Xinhua added in a commentary. "The South China Sea should not be the next one."

A spokeswoman for the U.S. State Department hit back by saying the United States was not responsible for fomenting instability in the South China Sea.

"It's the aggressive acts the Chinese have taken that are doing do," Marie Harf told a regular news briefing.

"Everything that we are doing is designed to lower tensions, to get people (to) resolve their difference diplomatically and not through coercive and destabilising measures like we've seen the Chinese take increasingly over the past several months."

SPIKE IN TENSIONSSouth China Sea tensions spiked in May when China parked a giant oil rig in waters also claimed by Vietnam. The United States and the Philippines have both called for a freeze in such moves, as well as on building and land reclamation work on disputed islands.

The rancour over the disputed sea has split ASEAN, with several states including some of the claimant nations reluctant to jeopardise rising trade and investment ties with China.

China has been able to head off regional action on the maritime issue before, most notably in 2012 when an ASEAN meeting chaired by Chinese ally Cambodia broke down in acrimony.

Australia was one of the countries to support the U.S. proposal at the weekend ASEAN meeting in Myanmar.

The U.S.-Australia meetings will include discussions on cooperation in missile defence, cyber security and maritime security, U.S. Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel told reporters at a briefing with Australian counterpart David Johnston.

The two sides will also sign an agreement reached between U.S. President Barack Obama and Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott on the deployment of U.S. marines to Australia for joint exercises and training in areas such as disaster relief.

Hagel said the Unite States was firmly committed to its policy of a strategic rebalance to the Asia-Pacific, something that has irked China and been questioned by allies who wonder the extent of U.S. commitment to the region.

"We have an interest here, we will continue to have an interest here, we are a Pacific power," he said.

Some 1,150 Marines are stationed in Darwin in Australia's tropical north under a 2011 agreement that launched Obama's "pivot" to Asia.

The contingent, primed to respond to regional conflicts and humanitarian crises, is expected to swell to 2,500 by 2017. Johnston said troop numbers would be discussed at Tuesday's talks, amid reports that the U.S. plans to station more fighter jets and bombers in Australia's north.

(Additional reporting by Jane Wardell in Sydney, Ben Blanchard in Beijing and David Brunnstrom in Washington; Editing by Jeremy Laurence, Robert Birsel and Tom Brown)


----------



## cirr

*CCG 1307*






Launch due in a couple of weeks。

More to come，a lot more。

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

*China violating Vietnam's sovereignty in Hoang Sa*

Vietnam's sovereignty over the Hoang Sa Archipelago is proven through historical evidence and based on a solid legal basis as being analyzed in scientific works of many scholars within and outside countries. [12] With its sovereignty in Hoang Sa, Vietnam has the right to exploit natural resources in the waters of the archipelago in accordance with the provisions of international law. The operation of Vietnamese fishermen in the waters near Hoang Sa for a very long time is both sufficient evidence of sovereignty and the right to exploit the sea here of Vietnam and is the enforcement of legal rights.

Therefore, when being asked about Vietnam's reaction to the incident on March 20, the Vietnamese Foreign Ministry Spokesman Luong Thanh Nghi confirmed that behavior "a serious incident that violated Vietnam's sovereignty over the Hoang Sa Archipelago, threatening and damaging the property of Vietnamese fishermen." 

Indeed, international law clearly states that national sovereignty is absolute nature and distinct, in which only sovereign nations are allowed to carry out power-state management measures on their territory. The application of this principle also extends to the territorial waters and the exclusive economic zone. Other countries are obliged to respect the individual and absolute sovereignty or sovereign rights. The consequence of this is a country is not allowed to perform law enforcement measures in the territory or territorial waters of the sovereignty of another country without the consent of that country. 

Chinese naval vessels chasing a fishing boat of Vietnam in Vietnam's waters is clear violation of the sovereignty and the duty to respect the sovereignty of Vietnam, because there was no evidence to suggest that this behavior of Chinese naval vessels received the consent of the State of Vietnam. In fact, Vietnam has always opposed any enforcement of state power of the Chinese government here. 

However, even though the State of Vietnam has made their sovereignty to the Hoang Sa Archipelago in a peaceful, stable and continuous way since at least the 17th century, taking advantage of the difficulties in the history of Vietnam, China has gradually occupied the Hoang Sa Archipelago since the mid-twentieth century. 

After the use of force in 1974, China has won complete control of the archipelago. Needless to say, the use of force to occupy territory does not bring about a nominal sovereignty by international law, along with the prohibition of the use of force in international relations to also eliminate the use of violence as a legitimate method for establishing territorial sovereignty again. Vietnam's sovereignty in the Paracels is still remained and China does not have any rights here, as well as to the relevant waters. 

Even so, the Chinese leader Deng Xiaoping, in a meeting with leaders of the Communist Party of Vietnam in September 1975, said: "The two countries have sovereignty dispute over the Hoang Sa and Truong Sa, it will be discussed and solved later." If so, the behavior of the Chinese navy also violated the obligation of peaceful settlement of disputes.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

*CCG 1307*


----------



## EastSea

*China has broken its promise*
_VietNamNet Bridge – China is continuing to intimidate Viet Nam in the East Sea, using physical violations and slander to try and browbeat the nation for defending its own territory. _

This is the view of journalist Kim Tuan who says what China is doing is totally different from what it is saying. Here is his latest viewpoint published by government website chinhphu.vn:

While Chinese State Councillor Yang Jiechi was in Ha Noi recently, China continued to bring another drilling rig, the Nanhai 9, into the East Sea.

This prompted Professor Carl Thayer from the Australian Defence Force Academy to describe the move as a new provocation from China.

At the end of last year, Chinese Premier Li Keqiang visited Viet Nam and agreed that during the search for a solution to disputes involving the sea, the two sides should control the situation together and refrain from any escalation.

Li also said if problems arose, China and Viet Nam should join hands and settle them in a "timely and rational manner, preventing them from adversely affecting bilateral co-operation and development".

However, China's illegal placement of the Haiyang Shiyou-981 rig inside Viet Nam's exclusive economic zone ran totally counter to this spirit.

Worse still, on June 25, China published a new map to push its sovereignty.

In the map, China defied international law and drew a 10-dash line that blankets all the East Sea, including waters close to the coasts of Viet Nam, Malaysia, Brunei and the Philippines.

There is a popular anecdote among the Chinese on the need to defy everything. When asked by Han Shi Zhong (1089-1151), one of the four famous generals of the Nan Song dynasty (1127-1279), to table evidence against Yue Fei, Prime Minister Qin Gui (1090-1155) flatly replied: "No evidence, no need for evidence."

For nearly a millennium now, Chinese have condemned the reply as well as the "defying all" attitude by Qin Gui.

Yet China itself is defying law and justice, trampling on common moral standards to grab interests in the East Sea that do not belong to it.

It is opting to act in a way condemned by the Chinese nation.

China believes it can use economic benefits to erode Viet Nam's determination to safeguard her independence and sovereignty.

China has banned its state-run enterprises from bidding for any projects in Viet Nam.

However, for Viet Nam, independence and sovereignty are the most sacred freedoms.

Economic benefits are necessary, but nothing is more precious than independence.

Viet Nam's leaders have said that not a single inch of the mountains and rivers of the country will ever be conceded - not for anything.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Globenim

cirr said:


> *CCG 1307*



I wonder if China has a contingency plan and prepared equipment to arm these vessels, in case Vietnamese or other rogue ships get more aggressive and lethal than they have been in recent months, when trying to violate and undermine Chinese sovereignty and open attacks on Chinese ships.

Immediately sending military into action will attrack violent rogue regimes from overseas with an open invitation to fuel the destabilization of the South China Sea.


----------



## EastSea

_China's U-shaped line is baseless_


----------



## Genesis

Globenim said:


> I wonder if China has a contingency plan and prepared equipment to arm these vessels, in case Vietnamese or other rogue ships get more aggressive and lethal than they have been in recent months, when trying to violate and undermine Chinese sovereignty and open attacks on Chinese ships.
> 
> Immediately sending military into action will attrack violent rogue regimes from overseas with an open invitation to fuel the destabilization of the South China Sea.


enough to deter other coast guard ships and small vessels, not enough for a corvette and up. 

Though that's what the 50 planned Type 56 is for, some speculate the number can and will reach 100. It will reach I think 19 or 18 or 20 this year, and about 30 next year.


----------



## EastSea

*Vietnam is facing enormous historic responsibility*
_VietNamNet Bridge - Vietnam is facing major responsibility that history has entrusted: It is to use international law to maintain peace in a vital area of the world.

n recent years, countries in the region such as the Philippines, Malaysia, Indonesia and Vietnam have seen important changes related to the disputes in the East Sea (South China Sea).

With the Philippines, after conducting peaceful dialogue to resolve the dispute, as China’s stance did not change, at the end of January 2013, the Philippines took its case against China to the International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea under Annex VII of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS).

In late February, Francis Jardeleza, the lawyer in charge of the lawsuit of the Filipino Government, urged Vietnam and Malaysia to participate in the lawsuit. One month after the call, the Philippines submitted legal files of nearly 4,000 pages to the International Tribunal in accordance with the process.

In Malaysia, in March 2013, Chinese warships appeared for the first time in James Shoals, deep into the exclusive economic zone (EEZ) of Malaysia, just 43 nautical miles from the Sarawak coast. This is the southernmost point in the "cow tongue" of China.

For approximately six months later, Malaysia implemented a plan to establish a new naval base in the largest town of Sarawak to deal with China's threats.

Since the early 1990s, Indonesia has not had a marine dispute with China. Indonesia holds a neutral position and plays an intermediary role in reconciliation between the parties. After the signing of the "Declaration on the Conduct of the Parties in the East Sea" (DOC) in 2002, for nearly a decade, Indonesia and other ASEAN countries drafted the "Code of Conduct on the East Sea" (COC) which is more binding than the DOC. This effort did not receive a positive response from China.

In mid-April 2014, Indonesia changed its neutral position when it announced it would to strengthen military forces in the Natuna Islands as the "cow tongue" of China covers Indonesia's territorial waters.

On the Vietnam side, from the early 2000s, China blatantly announced an annual fishing ban on the waters of Vietnam. Moreover, China constantly caused damage to property and lives of Vietnamese fishermen.

At the beginning of October 2011, in the presence of the two party leaders, China and Vietnam signed an agreement to resolve maritime issues "through negotiations and friendly consultations". [5]

At the end of November 2011, the Vietnamese government for the first time mentioned the event in which China used force to conquer the entire Paracel Islands in 1974.

Prior to the escalation of aggression, provocation and serious violations of international laws of China, in late April 2013, Vietnam's leaders also for the first time mentioned international law as a tool to resolve disputes with China.

In early May 2014, when it blatantly deployed its oil rig deep into in Vietnam's EEZ, seriously violating the sovereignty of Vietnam, China officially showed Vietnam and the international community that China’s commitments to Vietnam, including an agreement signed in 2011 on resolve marine disputes in the East Sea by "peaceful dialogue", absolutely has no value.

For the past nearly 40 years, Vietnam has constantly urged China to resolve disputes over Hoang Sa and Truong Sa (Paracel-Spratly) Islands by peaceful dialogue.

According to a Chinese scholar Hanling Wang, China's view is: "There is nothing to negotiate. China's sovereignty over the Paracel Islands has never been the subject of dispute and Vietnam acknowledged this in the past. Discussing collaborative efforts to protect natural resources, search and rescue and other things is one thing, China's sovereignty is a different thing."

China's stance on the Paracel Islands is clear: the Paracel belongs to China. They also falsely suggested that Vietnam "set aside dispute and pursue joint development" on the Spratly Islands, in the waters of Vietnam.

With over 3.5 million km2, the East Sea is a part of the Pacific Ocean, covering the territorial waters of Vietnam, China, Taiwan, the Philippines, Malaysia, Brunei, Indonesia, and Singapore.

In the era of economic globalization, the East Sea is not only important for these regional countries but also for many other countries in the world.

Every year more than $5.3 trillion of international trade passes through the East Sea, including $1.2 trillion from the US.

Due to the strategic positions of the Paracel and Spratly Islands, they play a key role in China’s "cow tongue" in the East Sea.

When using international law to resolve the East Sea dispute with China, Vietnam not only solves the problem of territorial sovereignty between the two countries, but also can help bring security and stability for all countries, depending on maritime traffic through the East Sea.

It also shows the world that Vietnam is a country that respects law and is accountable to the international community.

To create a breakthrough in the deadlock and to take advantage of the current advantages, considered from the perspective of international law, historical evidence and the regional situation as mentioned in the article, Vietnam should publicly urge China to agree to resolve the East Sea disputes at international courts.

China has its representative judges in the International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea and the International Court of Justice; China has always insisted to the world that they had sufficient historical and legal evidence supporting the "cow tongue" claim in general and the Paracel and Spratly Islands in particular.

If China wants to prove that they are also a law-abiding country and responsible to the international community, if China's assertion of sovereignty is based on truth, there is hardly any other plausible reasons for China to deny the role of settling disputes between countries that the International Court has performed effectively in the past 60 years.

Vietnam is facing a major responsibility entrusted by history. It is to use international law to maintain peace in a vital area of the world.

*Thai Van Cau*

(The author is a space scientist of Vietnamese origin living in the U.S.)
_

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Nike

*Analysis: ASEAN finds voice over South China Sea dispute*
*James Hardy, London* - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
14 August 2014







PLA marines march past a monument in the Chinese base at Fiery Cross Reef in April 2010. Credit: Xinhua

The Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) regional forum that took place in Myanmar over the weekend of 9-10 August was the latest multilateral platform at which officials could address ongoing developments in the South China Sea dispute.

In a surprise move, on 10 August the foreign ministers of the ASEAN member nations issued a joint communiqué that highlighted their "serious concerns" over "recent developments which have increased tensions in the South China Sea". They also "reaffirmed the importance of maintaining peace, stability, maritime security as well as freedom of navigation in and over-flight above the South China Sea". Previous events inevitably ended with anodyne statements tamely reaffirming the parties' commitment to "resolve issues in the South China Sea in a peaceful manner".

This time it was different. "We urged all parties concerned to exercise self-restraint and avoid actions which would complicate the situation and undermine peace, stability, and security in the South China Sea and to settle disputes through peaceful means, without resorting to the threat or use of force", the communiqué added.

This is an unusually forceful language from a body that has previously struggled to find common ground on the South China Sea dispute, most notably at the 2012 ASEAN summit in Phnom Penh, when the Cambodian chairman prevented the Philippine foreign minister from speaking by turning off his microphone.

So what has changed? One school of analysis suggests that more aggressive Chinese rhetoric and activities - adopted by Beijing based on the belief that it deserves the respect that great power status confers - have inspired equally strong reactions from its neighbours.

Another is that the countries most affected by China's activities in the South China Sea - Vietnam and the Philippines - persuaded their ASEAN partners that stronger rhetoric was needed after two changes to the status quo: China's moving of a large oil rig into Vietnam's exclusive economic zone in May and revelations that it is reclaiming land at a number of reefs in the Spratly Islands - in clear defiance of the 2002 Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea.

The Chinese position is that the United States and its regional clients - the Philippines and Japan in particular - are creating a sense of crisis in the South China Sea that is not reflected in reality. This position, articulated in an editorial published by Xinhua news agency, accused US Secretary of State John Kerry of "exaggerating the maritime tensions in the region" with his call ahead of the ASEAN forum to freeze activities in the sea. It added that "Washington is further emboldening countries like the Philippines and Vietnam to take a hardline stance against China, raising suspicion over the real intention of the United States and mak[ing] an amicable solution more difficult to reach."

China's position has drawn some support in the United States, where some argue that a misplaced sense of East Asia's value to the US national interest is combining with ideological suspicion of China. Professor Christopher Layne of Texas A&M University wrote in _The Financial Times_ on 13 August that the "liberal assumptions embedded in American foreign policy" have led to a "spiral of animosity that threatens to culminate in a confrontation between the two countries."

Layne and others argue that the United States needs to appease China's claims to Taiwan and in the South and East China seas on purely pragmatic terms; in their argument, giving up both would have no effect on the US's long-term strategic security.

This may be correct, but it is clear that the immediate effect of such moves would be the destruction of the US alliance system and the post-war consensus. A likely consequence would be the procurement of offensive weapons by Japan - possibly including nuclear weapons - which in turn would risk all-out conflict in Northeast Asia. This may not have a direct effect on the security of the continental United States, but would undermine the international order of which the US has been the 'system administrator'.

Given the US's commitment to maintaining the post-war system, such disengagement is unlikely. However, big questions remain over how it is going to convince China to take statements such as the ASEAN communiqué into account.

The most notable change in rhetorical temperature has been the prominence given to the South China Sea in statements by Kerry and President Barack Obama, who in an interview with _The Economist_ published on 2 August said that issues such as "what's happening in the ASEAN countries and their concerns about the Chinese posture on maritime issues is instructive. You've seen many of those countries say, we want great relations with China, we don't want to have to choose between China and the United States; on the other hand, we don't want to be bullied just because we're small."

Noting that when dealing with China "simple appeals to international norms are insufficient," Obama added: "There have to be mechanisms, both to be tough with them when we think that they're breaching international norms, but also to show them the potential benefits over the long term."

However, until the United States can outline what these mechanisms are there is unlikely to be any major change in the US position, and by extension, a reduction in tensions in the South China Sea dispute. The only thing that has changed is that the dispute is front and centre in Sino-US relations, where previously it was an irritant that both sides preferred to leave on the sidelines.

Analysis: ASEAN finds voice over South China Sea dispute - IHS Jane's 360

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Aepsilons

Good o see a unified ASEAN position.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## NiceGuy

> So what has changed? One school of analysis suggests that more aggressive Chinese rhetoric and activities - adopted by Beijing based on the belief that it deserves the respect that great power status confers - have inspired equally strong reactions from its neighbours.
> 
> Source: South China Sea News & Discussions | Page 489


China oil rig parked inside the conflict zone is the turning point that make all ASEAN nations feel want to unite together.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

*CCG 3105* launched：


----------



## Mr.S.Singh

India is assessing whether to explore oil in five blocks in the South China sea, on the invitation of Vietnam, a crucial and strategically located south east Asian friend, the Ministry of External Affairs (MEA) has said.

External Affairs Minister Sushma Swaraj is on a three-day visit to Vietnam starting today.

China lays claim to most of the South China Sea, but MEA Spokesperson Syed Akbaruddin said Vietnam says these five blocks are in its waters. Hanoi made the offer for exploration to New Delhi in November last year and the latter is assessing data.

Sources said India believes some of these oil wells could be extremely productive and is inclined to take up exploration, though no agreement has been signed yet.

Vietnam is fighting China over maritime boundaries in the South China Sea, which is rich in resources, fishing potential and an extremely busy sea with constant commercial traffic. It looks upon India as a friend and a supporter on disputes with China.

Ms Swaraj's visit is expected to focus on economic and defence ties. In September President Pranab Mukherjee will visit Vietnam and NDTV has learnt that during this visit he will officially extend a 100-million-dollar line of credit in the defence sector.

With that credit Vietnam can buy two or three petrol vessels, though the country has a much longer wishlist. It wants surveillance equipment, unmanned aerial vehicles, tanks, ships and the Brahmos, a cruise missile.

Defence experts believe the 100-million-dollar credit is small, but is a foot in the door and big message to China which is expected to be upset over it. China considers south east Asia to be its area of influence. 

India May Explore Oil in South China Sea

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Sam.

*Sushma Swaraj in Hanoi, India examining Vietnam’s South China Sea oil blocks offer*

*HANOI:* Vietnam on Monday made a strong pitch for greater Indian involvement in maintaining maritime safety, security and settlement of territorial disputes in the disputed South and East China Seas even as India is preparing to expand its oil and gas exploration in the seas claimed by China. 
*



*
Vietnamese deputy prime minister and foreign minister Pham Binh Minh, addressing the Third Round Table on Asean-India Network of Thinktanks, said the cooperation between India and Asean "needs to be more effective and efficient as the security and development landscape is experiencing swift and complex conversions". 

He noted that India-Asean's "future development and integration lie in the South China Sea and Indian Ocean" and that both sides should focus "more on maintaining maritime safety and security, freedom of navigation and settling territorial disputes through peaceful means on the basis of international law, including the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea 1982". 

Pham Binh Minh had in the morning briefed visiting Indian external affairs minister Sushma Swaraj on the subject. He also briefed the visiting Indian heads of missions from the region who have gathered here for a meeting on the South China Sea developments, said sources.* 





*
Relations between China and Vietnam have been tense since the past few months after Beijing installed a $1 billion oil rig in May in the South China Sea near the Paracel Islands, which is claimed by Hanoi. Both sides were locked in a bitter stand-off for a few months, and though China has withdrawn the oil rig, the tensions continue to simmer. 

Sushma Swaraj, who called on Vietnamese President Truong Tan Sang and Vice-President Nguyan Tha Doan and held bilateral talks with her counterpart, did not touch on the subject during her address. She said that geographical connectivity with the Asean should be boosted through land, sea and air. 

Significantly, Sushma Swaraj's visit is to lay the groundwork for the state visit by President Pranab Mukherjee in mid-September, days before the India visit of Chinese President Xi Jinping. 

Ignoring China's opposition, Vietnam has offered India five additional oil and gas blocks in the South China Sea for exploration. 

India is "looking at the feasibility" of exploring the five oil and gas blocks, which were offered last year to OVL, the overseas arm of Oil and Natural Gas Corp, said an official source here. These five are in addition to the two blocks offered earlier to India, the source added. 

During the visit to India last year by Vietnamese Communist Party's general secretary Nguyen Phu Trong, Hanoi had invited India to hunt for oil and gas in the disputed South China Sea. India had also made Hanoi the offer of $100 million line of credit for the purchase of four offshore patrol vessels. 






The visit of President Mukherjee is likely to see some agreements between the two nations in the field of defence, the source added. 

With India and Vietnam strategic partners, talks in defence is an important area of their cooperation. Both sides are reviewing their defence relations "in terms of improving the human resource development" constituent that would work out in terms of training. 

On the issue of the South China Sea, India stands for peaceful and negotiated settlement to the issue based on international law, like the UNCLOS. India's stand has been appreciated by Vietnam, the official added. 

India's viewpoint is that it is not a party to the dispute in the South China Sea and feels that the dispute should be resolved between those who are parties to this in a peaceful manner, and in accordance with international law. India also has interest in ensuring that there is free right of navigation and access to natural resources in that region, the official added. 

India and Vietnam, which already have ties in terms of extradition of prisoners and transfer of sentenced people, are also looking at cooperation in tackling cyber crime, the official added. Bilateral trade ties, which stand at $8 billion, are also sought to be boosted with more interactions between their businesspersons. 

In the field of tourism, both countries would look at their Buddhism circuit. 

Direct flights between India and Vietnam are set to take off from November with Jet Airways and Vietnam Airlines to fly directly from New Delhi and Mumbai to Hanoi with a stopover at Bangkok. 

Both countries are also looking to cooperate in the field of education, especially in the primary classes.

Reactions: Like Like:
11


----------



## Europa

India enhances military ties, interoperability with PH, Vietnam


----------



## Pakistanisage

India taking on China to enhance relations with Vietnam will be greatly detrimental to India's interest with China.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

chinese should not complain, they promote a world of being multipolar, aren´t they?


----------



## mehboobkz

Its a sign from China = Don't buy these oil pockets from Vietnam!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

pher said:


> weak countries such as vietnam and india prefer to complain. Our language is to respose.


there is no such word "respose". do you mean "repose"? ok...just keep your sleep

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## hkdas

pher said:


> weak countries such as vietnam and india prefer to complain. Our language is to respose.


really? what response do you gonna do?? there is nothing china can do to stop this. despite india's objection china is doing construction works in Azad Kashmir so india will do oil explorations in SCS, doesn't matter what china would feel.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## SrNair

That was a best move of Vietnam.They know that when we begin the exploration of 7 blocks we will also use our naval support for the security of oil blocks or we can see a comparatively better Indian naval presence in SCS.

We should take our decision based on the maximum national interest.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Viet

sreekumar said:


> That was a best move of Vietnam.They know that when we begin the exploration of 7 blocks we will also use our naval support for the security of oil blocks or we can see a comparatively better Indian naval presence in SCS.
> 
> We should take our decision based on the maximum national interest.


exactly my friend. we have the right to do exploration within our EEZ. no worry about chinese threat. our waters are protected by multilayered defence. our fighters such as su-30s can reach any enemy vessels in no time.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## xunzi

There is very little oil in their coast. The big oil field is within Paracel territorial water and we control that oil field.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Mr.S.Singh

Good we need Oil. I hope things move on and we secure the deal


----------



## HariPrasad

BuddhaPalm said:


> India can't even handle Pakistan. They are terrified of Pakistan Army with MBT-3000. India will cease to exist as a single nation state after a two front war.




What about we already extracting oil from Vietnam block? Your tank stood lat in Russian tank biathlon.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Roybot

Its only fair, China should stop needling India in J&K and Arunachal Pradesh, or expect meddling by India in East Sea of Vietnam.


----------



## BoQ77

Actually, Vietnam and India are long-term friends. Longer than China and Pakistan.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## B+ Dracula

hkdas said:


> you are trying to say about pak army didn't attack india during 1962 right?? pakistan won't dare to attack us because your uncle sam USA was with india to fight against china. i don't think pakistan will ever go against US interest. you know we didn't either attack or capture west pakistan in 71.


Anything can happen, Just Pray....it wont happen in our lives......


----------



## Viet

tonyget said:


> I hope Indians don't forget to buy insurance


come on our kilo need some targets...
the russians promise to pay-back our money if the torpedo misses a target.

Reactions: Like Like:

2


----------



## BuddhaPalm

LOL at Indians utterly humiliated by China's Type 96 at the tank olympics.


----------



## tonyget

Viet said:


> come on our kilo need some targets...



Where was your kilo during last standoff ?



Viet said:


> the russians promise to pay-back our money if the torpedo misses a target.



I kinda wish Vietnam has the guts to use it.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## pher

Roybot said:


> Its only fair, China should stop needling India in J&K and Arunachal Pradesh, or expect meddling by India in East Sea of Vietnam.


No, we will let you cry foul, you have no position to make deal with us.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## hkdas

pher said:


> what do you want to prove by showing off those rubbish in front us? they will not survive more than one hour in SCS



PLAN is not US navy to defeat IN in a short time, you have to understand that. and our investments will be safe in SCS.


----------



## qwerrty

good luck


----------



## ANMDT

Good move on side of Vietnam  the best way to counter against someone in EEZ is to establish a *new commercial issues based search and extraction of oil* instead of threating and deploying armed ships around there . I appreciate move of vietnam in this way . **But still i would prefer an europe based company in South Sea, instead of india which already has clashes ; since *europe based* companies *would have stronger insurance and application of rules*, they have *involved this EEZ issues in many place* around world. Decision of Vietnam ,therefore; seems to have one ally around there ,instead of securing South sea, a strategical move rather than political.

China cant touch *commercial based ships in EEZ* , otherwise they will counter *International Maritime Organization Rules which is mandatory* in all seas outside than terrirotial waters ;unless otherwise india and vietnam deploys some armed ships around there, china only can disturb some to give more claims in hand of india and vietnam for international courts 

IMO rules about EEZ ;

http://www.imo.org/ourwork/legal/documents/6.pdf

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## yusheng

from 2006, india cost 0.1 billion in the position on the map, bloody failed.





2012, May, india withdrew from the zone 128, said China objected,
by the way, they failed to find any thing on 127,

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## yusheng

could any one give the information about these 7 blocks? which india company take part in? or just a media boasting.


----------



## Viet

yusheng said:


> from 2006, india cost 0.1 billion in the position on the map, bloody failed.
> View attachment 45076
> 
> 
> 2012, May, india withdrew from the zone 128, said China objected,
> by the way, they failed to find any thing on 127,
> View attachment 45077


it is NOT all about oil. you are right, oil may exist or not. No, we give the offer to India as pretext. it is all about politics. India is invited to join the open party in the SC Sea


----------



## Viet

isoo said:


> Good move on side of Vietnam  the best way to counter against someone in EEZ is to establish a *new commercial issues based search and extraction of oil* instead of threating and deploying armed ships around there . I appreciate move of vietnam in this way . **But still i would prefer an europe based company in South Sea, instead of india which already has clashes ; since *europe based* companies *would have stronger insurance and application of rules*, they have *involved this EEZ issues in many place* around world. Decision of Vietnam ,therefore; seems to have one ally around there ,instead of securing South sea, a strategical move rather than political.
> 
> China cant touch *commercial based ships in EEZ* , otherwise they will counter *International Maritime Organization Rules which is mandatory* in all seas outside than terrirotial waters ;unless otherwise india and vietnam deploys some armed ships around there, china only can disturb some to give more claims in hand of india and vietnam for international courts
> 
> IMO rules about EEZ ;
> 
> http://www.imo.org/ourwork/legal/documents/6.pdf


my friend, India is one of many foreign companies seeking and exploring oil and gas in Vietnam EEZ. our intention is to get all major powers from EU, Russia, India, America to Japan into the South China Sea party

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ANMDT

Viet said:


> my friend, India is one of many foreign companies seeking and exploring oil and gas in Vietnam EEZ. our intention is to get all major powers from EU, Russia, India, America to Japan into the South China Sea party



In the map, it can be seen whole problem about EEZ emerges from Spratly and Paracel islands  
Anyway 2nd map is quite explaining about EEZ around there, thanks


----------



## Sam.

*Sushma Swaraj’s Vietnam visit opens up new avenues of cooperation*

*



*

*NEW DELHI:* India's look-east policy is gaining momentum under the BJP-led NDA government. After her visits toMyanmar, followed by Singapore and current one to Vietnam, foreign minister Sushma Swaraj is opening new vistas of cooperation with ASEAN members in strategic and economic spheres.

Vietnam has been India's key defence and strategic partner in the region, with whom relations have grown away from public glare. Swaraj's visit would prepare for PresidentPranab Mukherjee's visit to Vietnam from September 14-17, followed by their PM Nguyen Tan Dung's visit to India in October, official sources told ET.





It is not often that the Indian President visits one country and its PM comes calling in back to back months. This shows significance of growing strategic partnership amid regional tensions following China's claim in the South China Sea region, experts indicated. *A major defence deal is in the offing*, when Mukherjee visits Hanoi and Ho Chi Minh City, sources said. India has been a key defence hardware partner for Vietnam in naval equipment. As both countries have been using Russian military platform for decades, India and Vietnam complement each other on matters of training and spares. *Vietnam is also seeking to import Brahmos missiles* jointly manufactured by India and Russia.

Sources told ET from Hanoi that Sushma told PM Dung during her meeting on Monday that India appreciated Vietnam's security and national defence capabilities and expects to become its partner. Indian Navy ships recently made a port call in Vietnam on their way back from India-US-Japan trilateral exercise off the coast of Japan.

The meeting also focused on doubling or tripling trade between the two countries, conclude negotiations on a bilateral free trade agreement and launch a direct air route in the near future. Indian firms also have an interest in investing in infrastructure and signing deals with Vietnamese producers of corn and rice, as well as pangasius farming enterprises.
*
http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2014-08-26/news/53243741_1_indian-president-defence-south-china-sea*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Skull and Bones

Pakistanisage said:


> India taking on China to enhance relations with Vietnam will be greatly detrimental to India's interest with China.



China taking on India to enhance relations with Pakistan will be greatly detrimental to China's interest with India. 

See, the ball rolls both ways.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Sam.

Skull and Bones said:


> China taking on India to enhance relations with Pakistan will be greatly detrimental to China's interest with India.
> 
> See, the ball rolls both ways.








Vietnam to us is like what Pakistan to China.


----------



## BoQ77

*Volume 21 - Issue 23, Nov. 06 - 19, 2004* India's National Magazine
from the publishers of THE HINDU
Home *•* Contents






*WORLD AFFAIRS*

* A friendship renewed *

V. SURYANARAYAN



* External Affairs Minister K. Natwar Singh's visit to Vietnam further consolidates the foreign policy gains of the past and gives a boost to bilateral relations. *




THE HINDU PHOTO LIBRARY




* Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru with President Ho Chi Minh in Hanoi on October 29, 1954. *


THE recent visit of Minister of External Affairs K. Natwar Singh to Vietnam turned the spotlight again on India's growing links with South-East Asia in general and Vietnam in particular.

The 12th meeting of the India-Vietnam Joint Commission, which was held in mid-October, coincided with the 50th anniversary of the historic meeting between Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru and President Ho Chi Minh. To commemorate the event, the Institute of International Relations organised a special seminar in which several distinguished scholars from both countries participated and analysed in depth the whole gamut of India-Vietnam relations. The Vietnamese, like Indians, have a profound sense of history; the two countries, poised on the threshold of a new era, have an excellent opportunity to consolidate the gains of the past and give a fillip to bilateral relations.

Credit for the successful completion of the visit should, in large measure, go to Natwar Singh and his Vietnamese counterpart Nguyen Dy Nien. As a diplomat Natwar Singh has had the rare privilege of witnessing the tumultuous developments in India's neighbourhood in the post-Independence era; he is conscious of India's seminal diplomatic role in the Geneva Conference in 1954 and the attempts to make Indo-China an "area of peace" between 1954 and 1958.

In fact, during the Third Indo-China War, Natwar Singh as a member of the government, played an important role in bringing about reconciliation between Hanoi and the Association of South-East Asian Nations (ASEAN). India was against ostracising Vietnam and was convinced of the futility of the confrontational politics in South-East Asia. It was this realisation that finally led to the conclusion of the Paris Agreements, the withdrawal of Vietnamese forces from Cambodia and the gradual lessening of tensions, paving the way for the admission of the Indo-Chinese states into ASEAN.

Vietnamese leaders have acknowledged the spontaneous support and solidarity that the people and the government of India have extended to their heroic struggles - first against the French colonialists, secondly against the forces of neo-colonialism led by the United States, and finally against ASEAN, supported by United States and China for their own selfish reasons.

Ho Chi Minh is a household name in India; millions of Indians refer to him as Uncle Ho and Indian historians consider him as a "cross between Mao of the Long March and Gandhi at the spinning wheel".

As far as civilisational states such as India and Vietnam are concerned, no epoch in history is complete by itself; it is both a continuation and a beginning. Natwar Singh and Nguyen Dy Nien are sensitive to the working of historical forces. And, therefore, the relationship that India seeks to build with Vietnam today is being fashioned on twin foundations, the benign interaction of the past and the mutuality of interests that exists at present. The politics of the unipolar world and the trend of countries trying to befriend the U. S. at any cost should not make one oblivious of historical realities.

Even during the anti-colonial phase, Jawaharlal Nehru underlined the need for a reorientation of the Indian outlook on world affairs. He was mainly instrumental in making the Indian National Congress take positive a stance on issues relating to freedom from colonial domination and the fight against Fascism and Nazism. His well-known biographer Sarvepalli Gopal has written: "Jawaharlal Nehru played a decisive role in the history of the twentieth century - as the leader of the Indian people, as a representative of the new mood of Asia and as a spokesman of the international conscience." No other nationalist leader of the 20th century, except perhaps Ho Chi Minh, was able to understand and mould the history of his people in the context of world history and universal culture.

With their passionate commitment to anti-colonialism, it was but natural for Indian leaders to identify themselves with the political aspirations of the South-East Asian peoples. As early as 1927, Nehru had condemned the use of Indian soldiers in China, Burma (now Myanmar), Malaya (now Malaysia) and other countries in furtherance of imperialist interests. In December 1945, he expressed resentment at the use of Indian troops by Lord Mountbatten's South-East Asia Command against Indonesian nationalists.

Indicative of the emergence of this Asian perspective, or to quote Nehru's words, the "Awakening of Asia", was the Asian Relations Conference held in New Delhi in March-April 1947, which was attended by delegates from 28 Asian countries. India also played a notable role in arousing world opinion in favour of Indonesian nationalists and in the transfer of power from the Dutch to the Indonesians in 1949.

Simultaneously India articulated the policy of non-alignment, which meant refusal to accept the division of the world into two opposing blocs and meaningful involvement in world affairs in furtherance of world peace. Initially the policy was opposed by both superpowers, but gradually India did succeed in removing the fears and misgivings of the Soviet Union and China. India's successful mediation in the Korean War and its appointment as the Chairman of the Neutral Nations Repatriation Commission were clear evidence of improved relations with the communist world. The dramatic changes in the Soviet Union after the death of Stalin in 1953 and the acceptance of the policy of peaceful co-existence by the new Soviet leadership further facilitated the improvement of relations between the communist and non-aligned worlds.

The high watermark of this new trend in improvement in international relations was the signing of the India-China Agreement on Tibet in April 1954, which incorporated the five principles of peaceful co-existence. The acceptance of these principles, Nehru believed, would enlarge the "Area of Peace" in Asia. He visualised a situation where a large number of countries in Asia, more particularly in South-East Asia, would be uncommitted to either of the two power blocs, which had polarised the post-Second World War world. Prime Minister U Nu of Burma and President Sukarno of Indonesia shared India's views; it was, therefore, no accident that India came closer to Burma and Indonesia than the other countries in the region.








* External Affairs Minister K. Natwar Singh (centre) with Vietnamese officials at the function organised in Hanoi on October 18 by the Vietnam Union of Friendship Organisation in connection with the 50th anniversary of Nehru's visit. *


The prospect of a world war breaking out in Indo-China as a result of massive U.S. and Chinese intervention in 1953-54 brought Indian diplomacy into full play. U.S. Secretary of State John Foster Dulles accused the Soviet Union and China for conniving with the Vietminh and held them responsible for increased Vietminh military activity. The U.S. stepped up military and economic aid to France. Indicative of U.S. brinkmanship was the statement issued by Vice-President Richard Nixon that there was no possibility of a negotiated settlement when people in Vietnam were held under communist bondage.

Nehru was keen to prevent a war in a sensitive region so close to India. Peace, for Nehru, was not just a hope, it was a necessity. Though India was formally excluded from the Geneva Conference, V.K. Krishna Menon played a notable role behind the scenes to bring about broad areas of agreement among the major participants. The proposals put forward by Nehru in Parliament were later endorsed by the Colombo powers and influenced the negotiations and final agreement on Indo-China. The behind-the-scenes participation of Krishna Menon was so successful that Pierre Mendes-France, the Prime Minister of France, spoke of the conference as "this ten power conference - nine at the table - and India".

In India's view the struggle in Indo-China was essentially a nationalist one and its solution could best be accomplished by direct negotiations between France and the Indo-Chinese states. Thus, Indian diplomacy was mainly geared to remove all external influences from Indo-China and to ensure that the independence and neutrality of Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia were guaranteed by the Great Powers, especially the U.S. and China. In Geneva, thanks to Indian diplomacy, United Kingdom Foreign Secretary Anthony Eden and Mendes-France assured Chinese Prime Minister Zhou Enlai that there would be no U.S. bases in Cambodia, Laos and Vietnam that would pose a danger to China's security. Zhou Enlai, in turn, assured the others that China would respect the territorial integrity of Indo-Chinese states and would persuade the Vietminh to withdraw its forces from Laos and Cambodia. Thus, behind the idea of neutrality was India's keen desire to keep both China and the U.S. out of Indo-China and thus extend the area of peace and non-alignment.

The Geneva Agreement represented a great success for Indian diplomacy. As Prof. Sar Desai, the Indian scholar who has specialised on the subject, has written: "From the position of an outcast at the Geneva Conference, India had moved to occupy the central position of a custodian entrusted with the supervision of the Geneva Settlement over Indo-China."

In the days following the Agreement, India tried to make China and North Vietnam repeatedly commit themselves to the principles of peaceful co-existence and thus tried to allay the fears of the non-communist countries in South-East Asia. This was all the more necessary because of the establishment of the South-East Asia Treaty Organisation (SEATO), whose primary aim was to prevent the spread of communism in the region.

The military approach, as embodied in the SEATO, was fundamentally opposed to India's policy of peaceful co-existence with all countries, irrespective of ideological affiliations; SEATO was doomed to failure from the very beginning. Only two countries, Thailand and the Philippines, joined it. Prince Norodom Sihanouk of Cambodia and Prime Minister Katay Sasorith of Laos for some time toyed with the idea of joining SEATO, but were won over to India's point of view by Nehru's diplomacy.

In the Afro-Asian Conference in Bandung, not only Laos and Cambodia, but also China and North Vietnam subscribed to the principles of peaceful co-existence. Nehru also arranged private meetings in which Zhou Enlai and Prime Minister Phan Van Dong assured Sihanouk and Katay Sasorith that China and North Vietnam would respect the neutrality and territorial integrity of Laos and Cambodia. Phan Van Dong also agreed that the differences between the Pathet Lao and the Royal Laotian Government were purely internal matters of Laos and that North Vietnam would not support the Pathet Lao forces.

India's policy towards Indo-China was diametrically opposed to that of the U.S. and Indo-U.S. relations reached an all-time low. The U.S., during this period, was also providing military aid to Pakistan. The U.S. not only did not sign the Geneva Agreement, but went all out to scuttle the unification of Vietnam and propped up discredited South Vietnamese leaders as showpieces of anti-communism in South-East Asia. Encouraged by the U.S., President of South Vietnam Ngo Dinh Diem repudiated the Geneva Agreement and put obstacles in the way of the functioning of the International Control Commission, of which India was the Chairman.

Thwarted in their efforts to unify Vietnam through peaceful means, the Vietnamese nationalists resumed the liberation struggle. Laos could maintain its position of neutrality only for four years; the U.S. succeeded in ousting the "neutralist" Prime Minister Souvanna Phouma in the middle of 1958 and the right-wing government led by Phoui Snanikone immediately reversed the policy of neutrality and accepted U.S. military aid. The Pathet Lao resumed the guerrilla struggle and North Vietnam started rendering aid to its ideological ally. Despite U.S. pressures and aggressive postures by South Vietnam and Thailand, Sihanouk could maintain his country's independence. But, in 1970 the U.S. succeeded in ousting Sihanouk from power and installed the pliable Lon Nol in power.

By the end of the 1950s India's policy in South-East Asia had lost its momentum. The U.S. scuttled the Geneva Agreement and propped up its allies in South Vietnam and Laos. India-China friendship got frozen in the snows of the Himalayas and India's foreign policy was conditioned by increasing China-Pakistan collusion in the subcontinent and the unwillingness of Indian leaders to follow policies that might conflict with those of the superpowers, on whom India increasingly depended for military and economic assistance. The South-East Asian countries were also drifting apart and there was tension and violence in the air. Indonesia followed the policy of confrontation against Malaysia; the Philippines broke off diplomatic relations with Malaysia on the question of Sabah; Cambodia's relations with South Vietnam and Thailand got strained; and Burma, unable to maintain political stability, withdrew into monastic seclusion. Above all, the tragic conflict in Vietnam and Laos, and later on in Cambodia, continued without any end.

_V. Suryanarayan is Professor of Maritime Studies, University of Calicut, Kerala. _

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## kalu_miah

May be China should go ahead and invest a trillion dollar in Indian infrastructure, that way India will back off?


----------



## NiceGuy

Good, its time to show that who can drill oil in the disputed zone, China or VN


----------



## seven7seven

If Indians think they can explore in disputed territories without consequences, then they are very naive. China will cut cables, ram survey ships and spray water cannons at any foreign ships in disputed territories. China harass Japanese and US planes and boats around Diaoyu Islands all the time so don't think for a second they will go easier on weaker nations like India and Vietnam.

This is just empty posturing from India and Vietnam. Don't think either have the balls to follow through with their words. China knows this but they are not complacent and will build and send more patrol ships to reinforce their control of SCS. China will just keep doing what they have been doing and that is to occupy and administer the territories they believe is China's. Vietnam can keep moaning but weak nations don't have a voice and wannabe regional powers, like India, can try to play power games with the real big boys but trying to dictate terms to China in their backyard is foolish as they can't even manage to do it to China in their own backyard.

Once India gets a far better economy and move on from their vulnerable one-time-use military, then they can reconsider playing the superpower game.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## BoQ77

Vietnam offer India oil blocks in our EEZ, excl. overlapped areas.
So it's legal to explore there.

What illegal is the Chinese dashed line, not our exploration.


----------



## cirr

*Johnson South Reef* in July 2014：

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Eliter

GoogleEarth
Jun. 30.2014
*Johnson South Reef*


----------



## cirr

We will build，build and build：

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Nike

@Hu Songshan please to clearing again this thread

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Jlaw

cirr said:


> We will build，build and build：


nice. Next year I will be going to China for a visit.


----------



## cirr

Johnson South Reef to become Johnson South Island：

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cirr

Dongmenjiao，part of the Union Reefs where Johnson South Reef is also located：











Construction is full swing

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zero_wing

madokafc said:


> @Hu Songshan please to clearing again this thread



You can ask but the guy is chinese he never do that.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Eliter

Huayang Jiao
Cuarteron Reef
Aug.29.2014










Yongshu Jiao
Fiery Cross Reef or N.W. (Northwestern) Investigator Reef
Aug.29.2014


----------



## EastSea

Hey, China is big sea pirate.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

Nanxunjiao（Gaven Reef）July 2014






Andajiao（Eldad Reef）Feb. 2014

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## EastSea



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Eliter

Nanxun Jiao
Gaven Reef
南薰礁


----------



## cirr



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## EastSea



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cirr



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cirr

Coming up next：

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cirr



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Sasquatch

madokafc said:


> @Hu Songshan please to clearing again this thread



Thread cleaned couple of trolls banned as well.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

Vietnam protests the China movement of changing status quo of SCS reefs.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Nike

Hu Songshan said:


> Thread cleaned couple of trolls banned as well.



thanks man


----------



## Rechoice

madokafc said:


> thanks man


 go to do shopping is better for you.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cirr

7800-tonne *Sansha-1*，a new force in the SCS：






Launched 03.09.2014 at Huludao Shipbuilding Co. Ltd。

三沙一号补给船辽宁下水命名 排水量7800吨 _凤凰军事

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Rechoice

cirr said:


> Johnson South Reef to become Johnson South Island：



Chinese PLAN aggressor invaded Gac Ma reef of Vietnam, 70 Vietnamese logistic soldiers were murdered by Chinese.


----------



## cirr

Five new “toys” floated out en masse on 05.09.2014

新闻显示






All 5（2 CCG ships and 3 off-shore oil engineering support ships）to join the great game in the SCS。

Note：A total of 8 CCG ships of the same class are under construction at the Longxue Shipbuilding Base in Guangzhou，South China。

Four more CCG ships are being built at GSI，also in Guangzhou。

Then there is the HPS where some 20 CCG ships are in the pipeline。

All in all，over 30 CCG ships are at various stages of construction in CSSC‘s Guangzhou-based yards。

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Jlaw

cirr said:


> Five new “toys” floated out en masse on 05.09.2014
> 
> 新闻显示
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All 5（2 CCG ships and 3 off-shore oil engineering support ships）to join the great game in the SCS。
> 
> Note：A total of 8 CCG ships of the same class are under construction at the Longxue Shipbuilding Base in Guangzhou，South China。
> 
> Four more CCG ships are being built at GSI，also in Guangzhou。
> 
> Then there is the HPS where some 20 CCG ships are in the pipeline。
> 
> All in all，over 30 CCG ships are at various stages of construction in CSSC‘s Guangzhou-based yards。


 damn, now our viet friends cannot sleep again

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## terranMarine

Jlaw said:


> damn, now our viet friends cannot sleep again



Sure they can, they are dreaming the jungle operating the tomahawks already

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

Jlaw said:


> damn, now our viet friends cannot sleep again





terranMarine said:


> Sure they can, they are dreaming the jungle operating the tomahawks already



we have been living nearby big aggressors from ancient time, Chinese can not swallow our Islands, we will take back.


----------



## Jlaw

Rechoice said:


> we have been living nearby big aggressors from ancient time, Chinese can not swallow our Islands, we will take back.







Only in your dream...


----------



## Zero_wing

cirr said:


> Coming up next：



Oh may god did you guys just copy red alert 2! my god you guys are shameless 

Wow and you people still wounder why you guys have alot of enemies  typical chinese imperialist

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

Full-steam ahead：

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## EastSea

The big aggressor Chinese do her job.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

A picture story as told by a desalination engineer after return from his recent assignment at Huayangjiao（Cuarteron Reef）：











































Working in shifts，the labourers are paid 300-400 yuan（50-66 USD）a day。


----------



## Zero_wing

Wow thanks for building it for us


----------



## EastSea

Chinese destroyed our reefs.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

The Huayangjiao，no，Huayangdao，is now about the size of 4 football pitches。


----------



## terranMarine

nice wip photos, our military base in the making


----------



## Zero_wing

Ya throw the conduct of parties out the window nice job china it would make things easier for us to justify this agression to the UN ITCLOS


----------



## cirr

*CCG 2501* launched at Wuchang Shipbuilding in Wuhan on 10.09.2014：






With a standard displacement of well over 5000 tons and scheduled for delivery in Jan. 2015，CCG 2501 is the first of 4 such ships under construction at WS。

::国家海洋局东海分局::
首艘5000吨级海警船在武汉下水

More to come，a lot more。

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cirr

*Huayangjiao*（Cuarteron Reef）Phase II






Phase III






Phase IV






Forge ahead with determination and a well laid-out plan。


----------



## Europa

http://online.wsj.com/articles/viet...ation-in-contested-south-china-sea-1410777168

*Vietnam, India to Expand Oil Exploration in Contested South China Sea*
*Vietnam, India Sign New Oil and Gas Deal Despite Previous Objections From China*

*



*

*HANOI—Vietnam and India agreed Monday to expand cooperation in oil and gas exploration and production in contested waters of the South China Sea, despite previous objections from China.

The agreement between ONGC Videsh Ltd. and Vietnam Oil and Gas Group, or PetroVietnam, was among several signed between the two countries in Hanoi Monday as part of a four-day visit to Vietnam by Indian President Pranab Mukherjee.

"ONGC has been conducting oil and gas exploration and production in Vietnam for many years, and today's agreement will pave the way for us to extend our cooperation in other blocks offshore Vietnam," Do Van Hau, PetroVietnam's chief executive, told The Wall Street Journal.

ONGC already has a stake in a gas-production block on the southern Vietnam coast. It is also drilling in offshore exploration block 128 in the South China Sea. It relinquished adjacent block 127 in 2011 after it failed to find any oil or gas in the area.

In 2011, the Chinese government warned ONGC that its exploration activities off the Vietnam coast were illegal and violated China's sovereignty, but the company has continued its activities in Vietnam. China claims sovereignty over most of the South China Sea, where Block 127 and 128 are located.

Relations between Vietnam and India, both of whom are involved in territorial disputes with China, have moved steadily forward recently, with India seeing Vietnam as an important partner in Southeast Asia as it pushes its "Look East" policy. Trade between Vietnam and India rose 32% last year to $5.2 billion, according to Vietnamese government data. Vietnam's key exports to India are electronics, rubber, coffee and wooden products, while its imports from India include animal feed, pharmaceuticals and machinery.

Other deals relating to finance, agriculture, aviation and custom were also signed Monday during Mr. Mukherjee's visit.

India's Export-Import Bank signed a credit agreement with Vietnam's Finance Ministry, but details of the deal weren't officially announced. A government official familiar with the matter told The Wall Street Journal that the bank will extend a $100 million, 15-year loan to Vietnam for defense purposes, adding that the loan bears an annual interest rate of 2%.
*

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Rechoice




----------



## Eliter

Nansha Islands，Spratly Islands，南沙群岛 
Nanwei Dao，Spratly Island， Storm Island，南威岛
Mar，16，2014


----------



## EastSea

There is no island of china, chinese go home !

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Genesis

Europa said:


> http://online.wsj.com/articles/viet...ation-in-contested-south-china-sea-1410777168
> 
> *Vietnam, India to Expand Oil Exploration in Contested South China Sea*
> *Vietnam, India Sign New Oil and Gas Deal Despite Previous Objections From China*
> 
> *
> View attachment 50132
> *
> 
> *HANOI—Vietnam and India agreed Monday to expand cooperation in oil and gas exploration and production in contested waters of the South China Sea, despite previous objections from China.
> 
> The agreement between ONGC Videsh Ltd. and Vietnam Oil and Gas Group, or PetroVietnam, was among several signed between the two countries in Hanoi Monday as part of a four-day visit to Vietnam by Indian President Pranab Mukherjee.
> 
> "ONGC has been conducting oil and gas exploration and production in Vietnam for many years, and today's agreement will pave the way for us to extend our cooperation in other blocks offshore Vietnam," Do Van Hau, PetroVietnam's chief executive, told The Wall Street Journal.
> 
> ONGC already has a stake in a gas-production block on the southern Vietnam coast. It is also drilling in offshore exploration block 128 in the South China Sea. It relinquished adjacent block 127 in 2011 after it failed to find any oil or gas in the area.
> 
> In 2011, the Chinese government warned ONGC that its exploration activities off the Vietnam coast were illegal and violated China's sovereignty, but the company has continued its activities in Vietnam. China claims sovereignty over most of the South China Sea, where Block 127 and 128 are located.
> 
> Relations between Vietnam and India, both of whom are involved in territorial disputes with China, have moved steadily forward recently, with India seeing Vietnam as an important partner in Southeast Asia as it pushes its "Look East" policy. Trade between Vietnam and India rose 32% last year to $5.2 billion, according to Vietnamese government data. Vietnam's key exports to India are electronics, rubber, coffee and wooden products, while its imports from India include animal feed, pharmaceuticals and machinery.
> 
> Other deals relating to finance, agriculture, aviation and custom were also signed Monday during Mr. Mukherjee's visit.
> 
> India's Export-Import Bank signed a credit agreement with Vietnam's Finance Ministry, but details of the deal weren't officially announced. A government official familiar with the matter told The Wall Street Journal that the bank will extend a $100 million, 15-year loan to Vietnam for defense purposes, adding that the loan bears an annual interest rate of 2%.*



I know India gave Vietnam coast guard ships, are those 1,600 tons? 3,000 tons? 5,000 tons? 8,000 tons? Or matching our biggest 10,000 tons? Per Ship?


----------



## Viet

Genesis said:


> I know India gave Vietnam coast guard ships, are those 1,600 tons? 3,000 tons? 5,000 tons? 8,000 tons? Or matching our biggest 10,000 tons? Per Ship?


MoU is signed for buying india made patrol vessels for $100m.
the decision which class of vessels and how many pieces will be made by both defence ministers of Vietnam and India.

no worry, we are no match to you. so you can relax and continue playing with yourself.


----------



## cirr

CCG 3308 launched at HPS on 18.09.2014：

















More to come，a lot more。

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

Viet said:


> What is the point of posting images of ships after ships regardless of related to this thread or not?
> 
> I suggest chinese clowns go masturbating elsewhere.



You talk as if you have not posted any of your crappy ships。

Now who is the clown？

These ships will be deployed in the SCS to give a hard chase to those who belong up the trees，so they have everything to do with the general theme in this thread。

Talk is cheap。Do more，talk less。

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Viet

cirr said:


> You talk as if you have not posted any of your crappy ships。
> 
> Now who is the clown？
> 
> These ships will be deployed in the SCS to give a hard chase to those who belong up the trees，so they have everything to do with the general theme in this thread。
> 
> Talk is cheap。Do more，talk less。


we are building 30,000 new steal fishing vessels the south china sea.
not a problem, I can post 30,000+ images here 

Vietnam to make 30,000 steel-clad boats for fishermen by 2020

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TheTruth

Oh yeah, China can't build steel ships. Oh wait, it has the largest shipbuilding industry in the world - with South Korea and Japan building almost all of the rest.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

TheTruth said:


> Oh yeah, China can't build steel ships. Oh wait, it has the largest shipbuilding industry in the world - with South Korea and Japan building almost all of the rest.



South Korea and Japan have no gas turbine technology, while China right now is ranked just after the US and the UK in this domain.

South Korea and Japan's shipbuilding industry is big, but not strong.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

Viet said:


> we are building 30,000 new steal fishing vessels the south china sea.
> not a problem, I can post 30,000+ images here
> 
> Vietnam to make 30,000 steel-clad boats for fishermen by 2020
> View attachment 62032
> 
> 
> View attachment 62033
> 
> 
> View attachment 62034
> 
> 
> View attachment 62035
> 
> 
> View attachment 62036
> 
> 
> View attachment 62037



Tiny floating coffins。And only 30000？And by 2020？That's a long wait。

What if China builds 300000 and much larger（500-tonnes）fishing vessels？

Talk is cheap。Do more，talk less：











*Chiguadao Island* on 14.08.2014

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Eliter

中国南沙群岛，Nansha Islands,Spratly Islands
南薰礁，Nanxun Jiao, Gaven Reef
永暑礁，Yongshu Jiao, Fiery Cross Reef or N.W. (Northwestern) Investigator Reef
Sep.20.2014


----------



## cirr

CCG 3104、3105 and。。。3106 at Chuandong Shipbuilding：

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Rechoice

Sea and Islands of China is here.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cirr

Coral reef transport ships，PLAN's new toys in the SCS：






1st ship launched，2nd ship near launch。

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Beidou2020

Viets and Pinoys are crying


----------



## Ayan81




----------



## Viet

...on big spratly island 
















on An Bang island 


























Dai Lon island

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Soryu

Viet said:


> we are building 30,000 new steal fishing vessels the south china sea.
> not a problem, I can post 30,000+ images here
> 
> Vietnam to make 30,000 steel-clad boats for fishermen by 2020


No need to do that, just be your way. You know what's Chinese Ah-Q, bro.
China is very big country, but "Mr" Cirr 's just a kid, no need to feed him to much ...

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Eliter

中国南沙群岛，Nansha Islands,Spratly Islands
六门礁，Liumen Jiao, Alison Reef
南华礁，Nanhua Jiao, Cornwallis South Reef


----------



## cirr

*China ready to construct floating nuclear power plant*

Staff Reporter

2014-09-28





Concept art for China's nuclear power plant. (Internet photo)

The 719th Research Institute of the China Shipbuilding Industry Corporation was appointed to establish China's first R&D center for floating nuclear power plants in central China's Hubei province, reports our Chinese-language sister newspaper Want Daily.

President Vladimir Putin of Russia signed a contract with president Xi Jinping of China during his visit to Shanghai in May for the two nations to collaborate in constructing such a plant. *As China Shipbuilding Industry Corp's website writes, the floating plant will be used to provide electricity to Chinese facilities in the disputed South China Sea.*

Equipped with a smaller nuclear reactor, some vessels can also be used to exploit the natural resources beneath the sea floor. When natural disasters and accidents strike, emergency assistance can be deployed from the floating station. If China gathers experience in operating such plants, they will be able to construct nuclear reactors for nuclear-powered aircraft carriers in the future.

Sources from the Chinese shipbuilding industry said that Hubei province can benefit from the construction of this floating nuclear power plant. Hubei currently has 385 shipbuilding companies and 21 research institutes. Russia is currently the only nation in the world with a floating nuclear power plant. Known as Akademik Lomonosov, the plant provides up to 70MW of electricity or 300MW of heat to the city of Saint Petersburg.


----------



## Rechoice

*The “new card” in China’s cow-tongue machinations.*

In case China pursues UNESCO recognition of the Silk Road on the Sea as a world heritage, how will this affect the procedures to deal with China’s files related to the disputed area at the UNESCO World Heritage Committee, and how will this impact the committee’s decision on the dispute?
*China’s lobbying*

*



*

The World Heritage Committee is an intergovernmental committee that is responsible for considering and evaluating world heritage files submitted by the member states. It determines whether the heritage meets the criteria to be recognized as a world heritage in need of protection. The committee currently consists of 21 members, including Vietnam.

Normally, after receiving the files of the member states, the Secretariat will forward the full dossier to the appropriate consulting agency for evaluation. A nomination file will have to go through a process from 1.5 to 2 years (from the date of submission) until it is approved or rejected by the committee.

It is important that the committee’s decision concerning approval of the nomination file is based on the votes of the member states. Currently, of the 21 members of the committee, Vietnam, Malaysia and the Philippines are claimants in the dispute over the Truong Sa (Spratly) Islands. The committee does not include China. Therefore, it will not be easy for China to lobby the committee to approve the decision in its favor to add the Silk Road on the Sea to the World Heritage List.

Is China taking advantage of heritage protection?

As stipulated in Article 11 (3) of the UNESCO Convention in 1972, the recognition of a heritage site to the list of World Heritage needs the consent of the countries concerned and the recognition will not affect the rights of the disputed parties if the heritage is subject to claims or jurisdiction of more than one country.

According to paragraph 135 of the Guidance Documents of the UNESCO Convention 1972, the nomination file for cross-border heritage, if possible, should be prepared and submitted by all member states who own the heritage, complying with the above Article 11 (3). In particular, the Member States concerned should establish a management committee or a similar body to oversee the management of the entire cross-country heritage.

If the Silk Road on the Sea passes through the waters of the Hoang Sa Archipelago (Paracel Islands) (the subject of disputes between Vietnam and China) and Spratly Islands (the subject of disputes between Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines, China (Taiwan) and Vietnam), China has the obligation to consult with countries concerned in the dispute and is only allowed to submit the heritage file to the World Heritage Committee with the consent of these countries.

However, the Convention does not specify the case in which the heritage is located in the area of dispute of more than one country, and the other parties do not consent that one of the claimants unilaterally file the dossier.

The dispute over the Preah Vihear Temple between Cambodia and Thailand is a typical example of processing nomination files of the Committee for the heritage in the area that is subject to claims of more than one country. The Committee decided to add the temple to the list of World Heritage based on two factors: Firstly, the temple was determined by the International Court of Justice to belong to the sovereignty of Cambodia in 1962 and secondly, Thailand agreed with the recognition of the temple as a world heritage site.

For the disputed area, the Committee encouraged Cambodia to cooperate with Thailand in the protection of heritage values and expressed the wish that in the future the two sides would jointly submit the extended border areas in order to show the full value of the temple and surrounding areas.

Thus, experience shows that to add a heritage to the list of the world heritage, the country that submits the nomination dossier to the UNESCO must prove its sovereignty over the territories where the heritage is located (Article 4 of UNESCO Convention 1972), or while waiting for a final solution, that country must consult and have the consent of the country concerned (Article 11.3).

Similarly, in the process of finding a final solution, China should consult with other countries concerned to prepare and submit the dossier in order to have timely measures to conserve the value of outstanding underwater heritage.

An interesting example is that China combined with Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan to prepare and file the heritage dossier to the World Heritage Committee to recognize the Silk Road on Land.

The question is why China, which had precedent in coordination with the countries concerned in the preparation of the profile of a cross-border heritage site, did not carry out the same procedure for the Silk Road on the Sea?

If not for the purpose of protection of underwater cultural heritage, is China taking advantage of the protection of underwater heritage to realize its U-shaped line claim and reinforce its claims in the East Sea?

_VietNamNet Bridge – Is China taking advantage of the protection of underwater heritage to realize its U-shaped line claim in the East Sea?_

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## 劉天兆

SXNJ said:


> So the U.S. is telling China it can take all the fish and oil it can grab &#8211; but don&#8217;t try to stop any ships along the way.
> 
> ===================================
> What we need is just oil and fish


貌似我们还真的很需要油 不过得到的也只是中石油中石化还有中海油那几个臭不要脸的


----------



## Eliter

画册 《西沙 西沙》
Album of Xisha Islands（Paracel Islands）








continue


----------



## dichoi

cirr said:


> As China Shipbuilding Industry Corp's website writes, the floating plant will be used to provide electricity to Chinese facilities in* the disputed South China Sea*.



Its disputed.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Eliter

画册 《西沙 西沙》
Album of Xisha Islands（Paracel Islands）
continue
Yongxing Island(Wood Island)





画册 《西沙西沙》
Album of Xisha Islands（Paracel Islands）
continue
永兴岛 Yongxing Island(Wood Island)


----------



## Rechoice

*Hoàng Sa District

Hoàng Sa* is an island district of Da Nang in the South Central Coastregion of Vietnam. It covers an area of 305 km2 of the Paracel Islands, including these main features: Pattle Island, North Reef, Robert Island, Discovery Reef, Passu Keah, Triton Island, Tree Island, North Island, Middle Island, South Island, Woody Island, Lincoln Island, Duncan Island,Bombay Reef, Observation Bank, West Sand, Vuladdore Reef, Pyramid Rock. 

China robbed with force Islands 1956, 1974 from Vietnam.

Vietnam established Hoàng Sa district in 1982 as part of Quang Nam-Da Nang province Since Quảng Nam and Da Nang were split in November 1996, the island district has belonged to Da Nang.

sovereignity statue of Vietnam on Paracel.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Eliter

画册 《西沙西沙》
Album of Xisha Islands（Paracel Islands）
continue
永兴岛 Yongxing Island(Woody Island)


----------



## Rechoice

Map made by Do Ba, in the seventeenth-century painting pic. On this map that shows places "Golden Sands" (the red box) as stated in Nom word "Bai Cat vang", in the waters off the coast of Quang Nam province of Vietnam.

There is Paracel Islands of Vietnam.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## key-CN

越南周边的国家没中国在，都成越南主权了。占不占都是越南主权。越南就是个B样。


----------



## Eliter

画册 《西沙西沙》
Album of Xisha Islands（Paracel Islands）
continue
永兴岛 Yongxing Island(Woody Island)3


----------



## Rechoice

Vietnam controled Hoang Sa and Truong Sa from long time ago in the past.

Vietnamese were living in Hoang Sa.







China PLA robbed Islands Hoang Sa of Vietnam 1974 with force. It is illegal.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Eliter

画册 《西沙西沙》
Album of Xisha Islands（Paracel Islands）
continue
永兴岛 Yongxing Island(Woody Island)4


----------



## Eliter

画册 《西沙西沙》
Album of Xisha Islands（Paracel Islands）
Yagong Dao 鸭公岛
Oct.1.2014,China National Day


----------



## Eliter

南沙群岛 Nansha Islands,Spratly Islands
南薰礁 Nanxun Jiao, Gaven Reef


----------



## mrfly911

key-CN said:


> 越南周边的国家没中国在，都成越南主权了。占不占都是越南主权。越南就是个B样。


Could anyone translate it to English, plz?
VN national boder is not in China  , it have become the sovereignty of VN. Either to invade or not to invade, it is VN sovereignty. VN is a B form


----------



## Muzits

Rechoice said:


> pic of dirty chinese aggressors on our Johnson reefs, was ocoupied by PLAN 1988 with force. shoot up a mouth.





Rechoice said:


> pic of dirty chinese aggressors on our Johnson reefs, was ocoupied by PLAN 1988 with force. shoot up a mouth.


holy crap,since when it became yours?what a pathetic brainwashed moron, even ur native land used to be ours,just forget about our sea territory,otherwise u'll be turned into crap again.and just save those disgusting self-dreaming words for ur sick viets.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

Muzits said:


> holy crap,since when it became yours?what a pathetic brainwashed moron, even ur native land used to be ours,just forget about our sea territory,otherwise u'll be turned into crap again.and just save those disgusting self-dreaming words for ur sick viets.



Lying is no good. chinese land and sea is here. Chinese aggressor go home.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Soryu

Muzits said:


> holy crap,since when it became yours?what a pathetic brainwashed moron, even ur native land used to be ours,just forget about our sea territory,otherwise u'll be turned into crap again.and just save those disgusting self-dreaming words for ur sick viets.


you're so poor, study some more before open your big mouth ...

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## mrfly911

Muzits said:


> what's that?u draw it yourself?how pathetic u r ,*we are now the PRC,not the qing dynasty~now* u r more pathetic than i thought.
> 
> 
> ya save it for yourself,u brainwashed and uncilvlized disgusting self-dreaming freak.


 Don't PRC inherit Qing dynasty sovereignty?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Eliter

画册 《西沙西沙》
Album of Xisha Islands（Paracel Islands）
continue
永兴岛 Yongxing Island(Woody Island)5


----------



## Aepsilons

You think that's cool? China is a beginner when it comes to man made islands. 

Japan made a man-made island when we decided to create Kansai Airport:

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Muzits

Eliter said:


> 画册 《西沙西沙》
> Album of Xisha Islands（Paracel Islands）
> continue
> 永兴岛 Yongxing Island(Woody Island)5


有机会要去旅游啊，看起来太美了


----------



## key-CN

Chinese situation looks very cut，Nothing seems with Vietnam .Vietnam looks like outsiders.

Text on this map tell us the Vietnamese territory in China. Chinese people are really happy.


----------



## Rechoice

Muzits said:


> what's that?u draw it yourself?how pathetic u r ,we are now the PRC,not the qing dynasty~now u r more pathetic than i thought.



PRC with baseless nine dash line created by idiot KMT in 1948, PRC is slave of KMT when CPC PLAN invaded in to Islands of Vietnam in 1956, 1974, 1988.

Chinese is dirty aggressor.




key-CN said:


> Chinese situation looks very cut，Nothing seems with Vietnam .Vietnam looks like outsiders.
> 
> Text on this map tell us the Vietnamese territory in China. Chinese people are really happy.



It is sea of China in Man Qing dynasty in recently, kid. Vietnamese kicked @ of Chinese invaders to ran back to China long time ago. " Yue Nan " is separated from China on the map. You are blind.

were chinese very happy when you were enslaving by Manchurian ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

Nihonjin1051 said:


> You think that's cool? China is a beginner when it comes to man made islands.
> 
> Japan made a man-made island when we decided to create Kansai Airport:
> 
> View attachment 108315
> 
> 
> View attachment 108316



China is copied idea from Japan, but the difference is that Japan build Island in Japan sea territory, but Chinese are sea-pirates they build artifact Island illegally on reefs of Vietnam.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## key-CN

We can read your history books，We also have an earlier map.Text in Chinese history has not changed too.Since you gave up characters，Note that you have to give up history.Your remember the ancient hatred now .Is not it a joke？We used to be a country,Then separate.Aggression？Since you do not understand their own history.Why should inherit the ancient hatred.As your faith today


----------



## Muzits

Eliter said:


> 画册 《西沙西沙》
> Album of Xisha Islands（Paracel Islands）
> continue
> 永兴岛 Yongxing Island(Woody Island)5
> View attachment fc301818d35b65be5542a107e6005959.jpg


有机会要去旅游啊，看起来太美了


Rechoice said:


> PRC with baseless nine dash line created by idiot KMT in 1948, PRC is slave of KMT when CPC PLAN invaded in to Islands of Vietnam in 1956, 1974, 1988.
> 
> Chinese is dirty aggressor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is sea of China in Man Qing dynasty in recently, kid. Vietnamese kicked @ of Chinese invaders to ran back to China long time ago. " Yue Nan " is separated from China on the map. You are blind.
> 
> were chinese very happy when you were enslaving by Manchurian ?


u should read sum real history which's written by humanity instead of those crap written by the nasty self-dreaming monkeys,or may I say u should take sum mental medicine.anyway,i'm done with u pathetic brainwashed freak.just save those disgusting psycholagny for your own nasty freaks,and don't come here to insult your shit-nation anymore,and when it comes to China,u cheap viets don't even get to talk,just get lost pathetic loser!!



Eliter said:


> 画册 《西沙西沙》
> Album of Xisha Islands（Paracel Islands）
> continue
> 永兴岛 Yongxing Island(Woody Island)5
> View attachment fc301818d35b65be5542a107e6005959.jpg


有机会要去旅游啊，看起来太美了


Rechoice said:


> PRC with baseless nine dash line created by idiot KMT in 1948, PRC is slave of KMT when CPC PLAN invaded in to Islands of Vietnam in 1956, 1974, 1988.
> 
> Chinese is dirty aggressor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is sea of China in Man Qing dynasty in recently, kid. Vietnamese kicked @ of Chinese invaders to ran back to China long time ago. " Yue Nan " is separated from China on the map. You are blind.
> 
> were chinese very happy when you were enslaving by Manchurian ?


u should read sum real history which's written by humanity instead of those crap written by the nasty self-dreaming monkeys,or may I say u should take sum mental medicine.anyway,i'm done with u pathetic brainwashed freak.just save those disgusting psycholagny for your own nasty freaks,and don't come here to insult your shit-nation anymore,and when it comes to China,u cheap viets don't even get to talk,just get lost pathetic loser!!


----------



## Rechoice

you are 


key-CN said:


> We can read your history books，We also have an earlier map.Text in Chinese history has not changed too.Since you gave up characters，Note that you have to give up history.Your remember the ancient hatred now .Is not it a joke？We used to be a country,Then separate.Aggression？Since you do not understand their own history.Why should inherit the ancient hatred.As your faith today



you r uneducated boy. Han Zi or Latin alphabets is both characters for writing. our history books are trans-written from Han Zi to Latin. our kids can read our history book when they go to schoole. When you chinese ordinary people can not read your history book with fully with classical characters.

China is country, but time to time is ruled by invaders like Mongolia, Manchurian and Japanese etc. Don't forget it !

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Ginsu33

Muzits said:


> 有机会要去旅游啊，看起来太美了
> 
> u should read sum real history which's written by humanity instead of those crap written by the nasty self-dreaming monkeys,or may I say u should take sum mental medicine.anyway,i'm done with u pathetic brainwashed freak.just save those disgusting psycholagny for your own nasty freaks,and don't come here to insult your shit-nation anymore,and when it comes to China,u cheap viets don't even get to talk,just get lost pathetic loser!!
> 
> 有机会要去旅游啊，看起来太美了
> 
> u should read sum real history which's written by humanity instead of those crap written by the nasty self-dreaming monkeys,or may I say u should take sum mental medicine.anyway,i'm done with u pathetic brainwashed freak.just save those disgusting psycholagny for your own nasty freaks,and don't come here to insult your shit-nation anymore,and when it comes to China,u cheap viets don't even get to talk,just get lost pathetic loser!!


 
No offence, but both China and Japan tend to whitewash their history text books, so telling him to read 'real' history books, is pretty funny.

Don't get so frustrated, it just makes you look silly.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Muzits

Ginsu33 said:


> No offence, but both China and Japan tend to whitewash their history text books, so telling him to read 'real' history books, is pretty funny.
> 
> Don't get so frustrated, it just makes you look silly.


LOL...u guys r always funny,very good at self-dreaming.i wasn't frustrated,and i will never be frustrated with a brainwashed illiterate.i was just feeling cheap and disgusted talking to a nasty self-dreaming freak.and now i'm done with it ,that's it.


----------



## Ginsu33

Muzits said:


> LOL...u guys r always funny,very good at self-dreaming.i wasn't frustrated,and i will never be frustrated with a brainwashed illiterate.i was just feeling cheap and disgusted talking to a nasty self-dreaming freak.and now i'm done with it ,that's it.


 
And subsequently felt the need to rant and complain about it in a very immature and rude manner. So the guy has a viewpoint you don't agree with, you're both discussing issues that nations have had with eachother, you are not involved in that aspect right?

And if you think he is a brainwashed illiterate why are you being a jerk if he doesn't know better? You don't make any sense mate.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Muzits

Ginsu33 said:


> And subsequently felt the need to rant and complain about it in a very immature and rude manner. So the guy has a viewpoint you don't agree with, you're both discussing issues that nations have had with eachother, you are not involved in that aspect right?
> 
> And if you think he is a brainwashed illiterate why are you being a jerk if he doesn't know better? You don't make any sense mate.


well,for me manner is for those who truely wanna discuss sumthing with u,not for those pathetic baseless-story makers.
To wake them up from their nasty mental masturbation,harsh words are required then.


----------



## Rechoice

Muzits said:


> well,for me manner is for those who truely wanna discuss sumthing with u,not for those pathetic baseless-story makers.
> To wake them up from their nasty mental masturbation,harsh words are required then.



don't lie, kid.

Vietnam controlled sea and Islands from many hundred years ago in the past without troubles with Man Qing of China.

Nine dash line claiming of idiot KMT is a big fabrication.


----------



## Genesis

Nihonjin1051 said:


> You think that's cool? China is a beginner when it comes to man made islands.
> 
> Japan made a man-made island when we decided to create Kansai Airport:
> 
> View attachment 108315
> 
> 
> View attachment 108316


a military base's function isn't the same as an airport is it. Besides, we need to create so many of these, funding is limited. 

Like a Humvee's interior is worse than a Prius, but that doesn't mean Prius can do what the Humvee could.

Not to mention, your "island" is next to your land, our island is in the middle of nowhere, literally nowhere. Build a few in the middle of the pacific and we'll talk.


----------



## Aepsilons

Genesis said:


> a military base's function isn't the same as an airport is it. Besides, we need to create so many of these, funding is limited.
> 
> Like a Humvee's interior is worse than a Prius, but that doesn't mean Prius can do what the Humvee could.
> 
> Not to mention, your "island" is next to your land, our island is in the middle of nowhere, literally nowhere. Build a few in the middle of the pacific and we'll talk.



he he, we're applying our history in developing / creating a man made island to our vast pacific islands. One example is the development of Okino Toroshima Island, in the Western Pacific. 

The Location of Okino Toroshima Island:








Development of Okino Toroshima Island:


----------



## Genesis

Nihonjin1051 said:


> he he, we're applying our history in developing / creating a man made island to our vast pacific islands. One example is the development of Okino Toroshima Island, in the Western Pacific.
> 
> The Location of Okino Toroshima Island:
> 
> View attachment 110376
> 
> 
> 
> Development of Okino Toroshima Island:
> 
> View attachment 110377
> 
> 
> View attachment 110378
> 
> 
> View attachment 110379
> 
> 
> View attachment 110380


that looks better than what we have to you? Especially considering in the pictures you don't have anything. The original post from you is to say we are a beginner and you are better.

Well, now that you showed your work, is it really better, does the three poles and what looks like a well look better than our bases in China Seas. 

Show your airport quality island in that distance and then we can decide if China is in deed the beginner in all this.


----------



## Aepsilons

Genesis said:


> that looks better than what we have to you? Especially considering in the pictures you don't have anything. The original post from you is to say we are a beginner and you are better.
> 
> Well, now that you showed your work, is it really better, does the three poles and what looks like a well look better than our bases in China Seas.
> 
> Show your airport quality island in that distance and then we can decide if China is in deed the beginner in all this.



We're developing Okino toroshima Island, within couple of years, it will become a major base for Japanese plans in the Pacific. Plus, it will provide and extend Naval and air presence. 



Genesis said:


> that looks better than what we have to you? Especially considering in the pictures you don't have anything. The original post from you is to say we are a beginner and you are better.
> 
> Well, now that you showed your work, is it really better, does the three poles and what looks like a well look better than our bases in China Seas.
> 
> Show your airport quality island in that distance and then we can decide if China is in deed the beginner in all this.



This is the finalized version of Kansai Island Airport. Completely man made. And, Made In Japan.


----------



## Genesis

Nihonjin1051 said:


> We're developing Okino toroshima Island, within couple of years, it will become a major base for Japanese plans in the Pacific. Plus, it will provide and extend Naval and air presence.
> 
> 
> 
> This is the finalized version of Kansai Island Airport. Completely man made. And, Made In Japan.



how does this in anyway answer what I said......

First Okino is nothing right now, well more or less, second, it's one place, third, it doesn't back up your claim that we are a beginner relative to you.

Showing me a picture of an island that close to Japan proves nothing.

If a run 2 meters, I be faster than Bolt if he runs 100 meters. That doesn't make me faster.


Why is it every, well not everytime, but a lot of the times you dodge my question, what's so difficult about it. I doubt you don't understand it.

Though now that Iook at it, the airport part could be confusing, what I mean is show that yo ucan build that air port in Okino or somewhere that distance, and we'll talk about if Japan is superior in this field.

Though, take in context, it should still be understandable. 

But the first part is not, since you claim Japan is better at it, show some evidence of building at that distance, that's better than what we have.


----------



## Aepsilons

Genesis said:


> First Okino is nothing right now, well more or less, second, it's one place, third, it doesn't back up your claim that we are a beginner relative to you.



The Kansai Island Project cost us $20 billion to develop. The construction started in 1987, and was completed by 1994. This shows that we have a long history of land reclamation , to island genesis. Anyways, there is a big difference between the Kansai Island Project to the current Okino Toroshima Island Project.

Kansai Island was designed to be for civilian use, namely as an international airport and port system.

Okino Toroshima will be a military base, it will be larger in size than the Kansai Project. Okino Toroshima will be roughly double the size of Kansai Island. It will be home to both JASDF and JMSDF.







Genesis said:


> But the first part is not, since you claim Japan is better at it, show some evidence of building at that distance, that's better than what we have.



I did not claim that Japan is 'superior' in this category, but merely provided that we were in the business of creating islands back in the 1980s. China has just recently started on this, some 20+ years later.


----------



## Genesis

Nihonjin1051 said:


> I did not claim that Japan is 'superior' in this category, but merely provided that we were in the business of creating islands back in the 1980s. China has just recently started on this, some 20+ years later.



really,



> You think that's cool? China is a beginner when it comes to man made islands.
> 
> Source: South China Sea News & Discussions | Page 498



If you had said China just started, or if you had said Japan had started earlier, maybe.

But you said you think that's cool? Which implies you got something better, which as shown by you, you don't. The Kansai island is close to land, very close, much easier to do. China is bigger nation, so we are not short on land...yet.


SCS will be home to quite a few that will be the bases for PLAN and PLANFF or something, of course, some will also be for civilian use.


----------



## Aepsilons

Genesis said:


> how does this in anyway answer what I said......
> 
> First Okino is nothing right now, well more or less, second, it's one place, third, it doesn't back up your claim that we are a beginner relative to you.
> 
> Showing me a picture of an island that close to Japan proves nothing.
> 
> If a run 2 meters, I be faster than Bolt if he runs 100 meters. That doesn't make me faster.
> 
> 
> Why is it every, well not everytime, but a lot of the times you dodge my question, what's so difficult about it. I doubt you don't understand it.
> 
> Though now that Iook at it, the airport part could be confusing, what I mean is show that yo ucan build that air port in Okino or somewhere that distance, and we'll talk about if Japan is superior in this field.
> 
> Though, take in context, it should still be understandable.
> 
> But the first part is not, since you claim Japan is better at it, show some evidence of building at that distance, that's better than what we have.



Do you know how large Okino Toroshima Island Project will be? It will be 1.7 km wide, and 4.5 km long. It will be our largest island genesis project yet.


----------



## Genesis

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Do you know how large Okino Toroshima Island Project will be? It will be 1.7 km wide, and 4.5 km long. It will be our largest island genesis project yet.


so......? Will, and how do you know how good or bad our projects are now, since the completion date is around 2020. 

You claim Japan is better at it, yea, you mean better, if all you mean is more experience and the same or worse you wouldn't have brought it up.

You are showing an island that doesn't yet exist to compare to our island that is further along and drawing a conclusion.


----------



## Aepsilons

Genesis said:


> But you said you think that's cool? Which implies you got something better, which as shown by you, you don't. The Kansai island is close to land, very close, much easier to do. China is bigger nation, so we are not short on land...yet.


 
Sure, since we started and practically spearheaded island genesis, we helped create the civil engineering policy in regards creating the most stable structure, the kinds of cement to use, factoring the effects of salt water, to addressing techniques that can prevent barrier erosion. You can say, we have a tried and tested methodology.



Genesis said:


> You are showing an island that doesn't yet exist to compare to our island that is further along and drawing a conclusion.


 
I'm showing you an island that is under construction, and will be developed as what we have done in Kansai.


----------



## Genesis

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Sure, since we started and practically spearheaded island genesis, we helped create the civil engineering policy in regards creating the most stable structure, the kinds of cement to use, factoring the effects of salt water, to addressing techniques that can prevent barrier erosion. You can say, we have a tried and tested methodology.


Caveman built the first building, doesn't mean it's "cooler," does it.



> I'm showing you an island that is under construction, and will be developed as what we have done in Kansai.


As oppose to our islands that will never be finished.....

So, which of those islands ARE, right now, cooler than what we have. We can talk future when we get there.


----------



## Aepsilons

Genesis said:


> So, which of those islands ARE, right now, cooler than what we have. We can talk future when we get there.


 
lol. looking forward to seeing how your islands turn out. I can't wait in several years time when we develop Okino Toroshima Island. 



Genesis said:


> As oppose to our islands that will never be finished.....


 
I never said that your man made islands will never be finished, I merely said that we started building islands before China ever did.



Genesis said:


> Caveman built the first building, doesn't mean it's "cooler," does it.


 
I don't know about caveman, but technical expertise is developed over time and experience.


----------



## key-CN

You just grafted history.Look at your historical monuments it.Nothing to do with you.


----------



## Genesis

Nihonjin1051 said:


> lol. looking forward to seeing how your islands turn out. I can't wait in several years time when we develop Okino Toroshima Island.


All I can say is this, if it's really good, nobody can say anything, you have never hear me say we are better or close to US navy, Zumwalt class, or Ford Class, real good things need no defense, there existence is good enough. 

If your island is really the best thing since sliced bread, then, there be no comparison, the fact that I can even go on means it isn't.

But let's wait, we are both youngish.



> I never said that your man made islands will never be finished, I merely said that we started building islands before China ever did.



That's the one thing you didn't say, in your first post. You implied better. If all you said was earlier, there be no discussion. 



> I don't know about caveman, but technical expertise is developed over time and experience.


true, but your island building isn't as revolutionary as the jet engine is it, I think we'll manage.


----------



## Aepsilons

Genesis said:


> But let's wait, we are both youngish.


 
lol. youngish?



Genesis said:


> All I can say is this, if it's really good, nobody can say anything, you have never hear me say we are better or close to US navy, Zumwalt class, or Ford Class, real good things need no defense, there existence is good enough.



Everyone's free to make comparisons.





Genesis said:


> true, but your island building isn't as revolutionary as the jet engine is it, I think we'll manage.


 
Best of luck, I look forward to seeing the finished version.


----------



## key-CN

Vietnamese friends always so funny,Do not score an own goal after a .Chinese people embarrassed.Do not take Chinese Evidence.Maybe again next oolong.


----------



## Eliter

画册 《西沙西沙》
Album of Xisha Islands（Paracel Islands）
continue
永兴岛 Yongxing Island(Woody Island)6

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

Sea and land of China is here on this map.






Chinese go home !


----------



## key-CN

It is also written in Chinese，This is a special font for engraving.This map resolution see something bad .You look at the lower left corner of the label.Specially marked places islands.I said do not show evidence of Chinese.We recognize that every word，Of course, another big point to better distinguish the .Maps are beautiful.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Muzits

key-CN said:


> It is also written in Chinese，This is a special font for engraving.This map resolution see something bad .You look at the lower left corner of the label.Specially marked places islands.I said do not show evidence of Chinese.We recognize that every word，Of course, another big point to better distinguish the .Maps are beautiful.


PLz DO NOT talk to those pathetic brainwashed freaks anymore.i would rather go talk with the animals than talking to them. they were born to be uncilvlized creatures,didn't u feel cheap talking to them?


----------



## Rechoice

Muzits said:


> PLz DO NOT talk to those pathetic brainwashed freaks anymore.i would rather go talk with the animals than talking to them. they were born to be uncilvlized creatures,didn't u feel cheap talking to them?



Do you speak to the animal ? really ? do you have such language like barking ? ...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## key-CN

I respect the evidence，I found basically Chinese， him's Own goal very interesting.


----------



## cirr

*CCG 2304* etc。。。






New “toys” for game play in the ECS and SCS。


----------



## dichoi

Using force in Hoang Sa, what principles has China violated?
_VietNamNet Bridge – What principles of international law were broken by China with its behavior towards a Vietnamese fishing vessel in the waters of Hoang Sa (Paracel) Archipelago?_

On March 20, 2013, a fishing boat numbered QNg 96382 with fishermen from the central province of Quang Ngai, Vietnam, was chased and shot by a Chinese ship in the waters of the Hoang Sa Archipelago of Vietnam. The incident raises concerns about the behavior and attitude of China on issues of territorial boundaries as well as the attitude of this country in respect of the provisions of international law.

The behavior of using force of the Chinese navy is "wrong and inhuman," in the words of the Spokesman of the Vietnamese Ministry of Foreign Affairs and it "seriously violated the principles of international law.” That behavior was not only protested by Vietnam - the country that has indisputable sovereignty over the Hoang Sa - but also the United States, the country that is far away from the other side of the Pacific.

Two questions are posed: "What principles of international law were violated by China with its behavior?" and "Why does the United States, the country that has no territorial claims in the East Sea, is also discontent with the incident on March 20, 2013?"

Firing flares directly into the cabin where the temperature is high, with high risk of fire (as in reality) cannot be considered consistent with the requirements of "ensuring non-life-threatening."

*Violation of the principle of prohibiting the use of force in international relations*

After witnessing the pain and loss caused by the wars in the first half of the twentieth century, the international community came together to build a new world order in which the use of force is not within the law. The United Nations Charter, adopted in San Francisco, United States, in 1945 records the rule of prohibiting the use of force in international relations in Article 2 (4) as follows:

All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.

Looking at the wording of the terms mentioned above, there may be a question as to whether the concept of "use of force" should be understood to mean acts "against territorial integrity or political independence" of other countries or not?

The historical and simple answer is the phrase "against the territorial integrity or political independence" was only included in the Charter of the United Nations at the request of Australia to protect small nations in international relations. Actual negotiations of Article 2 (4) of the UN Charter showed that the nations had no intention to use the phrase "against the territorial integrity" to limit or explain the concept of "use of force."

The behavior of Chinese naval ships is clearly the use of force in international relations as it relates to a ship of the Chinese state and a Vietnamese fishing vessel in the waters of Vietnam, which China has turned into the sea of "dispute." The use of force of China is contrary to the rule noted in Article 2 (4) of the UN Charter.

Notably, in the field of maritime law, the principle of no use of force in international relations has been concretized into the obligation of using sea peacefully. This obligation is recognized in the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea 1982 (UNCLOS) that both Vietnam and China are members. Article 301 of the UNCLOS provides that:

*Using sea peacefully*

In the performance of its rights and obligations under this Convention, the Member States must avoid using or threatening to use force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any State or in other ways that are not consistent with the principles of international law as being embodied in the UN Charter.

Thus, Chinese naval ships set on fire a Vietnamese fishing boat and also violated the obligation to use the sea for peaceful purposes as provided in Article 301 of the UNCLOS.

In the specific case involved the QNg 96382 fishing vessel on March 20, 2013, the behavior of the Chinese Navy also violated international standards on law enforcement activities at sea.

*Violations of international standards in maritime law enforcement operations*

When being asked about the above incident, the Spokesman of Chinese Foreign Ministry, Hong Lei, blatantly stated: "The reaction of the Chinese authorities before an illegal fishing vessel of Vietnam was justified and reasonable."

Saying the operation of Vietnamese fishing boats is "illegal" is a blatant slander because the area where the Vietnamese fishing ships are operating is the waters near the island of Con Linh -- that belongs to Vietnam’s Hoang Sa archipelago, where Vietnam has sovereign right and the right to explore the sea as well as in accordance with the provisions of international law.

However, this issue should be temporarily put aside. Let's analyze the use of force by China from pure standards of international law on this issue to see if it is "right and fair" or not?

The norms of international law governing the operation of executive activities at sea, including the use of force, have been confirmed and developed in the case laws of international courts. Crystallization of these standards has been shown in the case of M/V "SAIGA" (No. 2) (Saint Vincent and the Grenadines v. Guinea) - one of the first cases that the International Tribunal on the Law of the Sea handled. The Court stated that:

Should avoid the use of force as far as possible and when unavoidable, the force is not unauthorized to use beyond what is considered reasonable and necessary in the circumstances. The humane considerations must be applied in the law of the sea as they have been applied in other fields of international law.

In its ruling, the International Court of law of the sea, on the basis of the previous case-laws, also described the international practices in the conduct of law enforcement activities and the use of force at sea as follows: the pursuing vehicle needs to release an audio or image signal that has been internationally recognized prior to doing other measures, such as opening fire on the ship bow; only after all these measures are not successful, "force to be used as a last resort [but] even if it also needs to provide appropriate warnings to the ship that is being chased and need to make all efforts to ensure no life-threatening."

With what Vietnamese fishermen recalled, it is difficult to say that non-violent methods were applied to ask the Vietnamese ship stop. In other words, it is difficult to justify the use of force behavior of China as the last resort.

Furthermore, the direct firing of flares into the cabin where the temperature was high, with high risk of fire (as in reality) cannot be considered in accordance with the requirements of "ensuring non-life-threatening."

The behavior of the Chinese navy is clearly the "ignorance" of international standards in maritime law enforcement operations and a "disregard" of the humanitarian requirements in the use of force in accordance with international law.

Perhaps understanding the wrongfulness of their behavior, the Chinese Foreign Ministry’s Spokesman did not dare to straightly answer the question of whether or not the Chinese ships fired on the Vietnamese fishing boat.

Then Chinese military officials also issued a statement justifying the actions of their navy. In addition to continuing to slander Vietnamese fishing boats of illegally entering Chinese waters, Chinese military officials described the incident on March 20, 2013 as follows: Chinese patrol boats tried to warn fishing vessels by whistle, screaming and waving flags, just after these unsuccessful efforts, the Chinese navy fired two red flares and both of them were off in the air."

As the Washington Post noted, China "described itself as a model of restraint." This newspaper is also very accurate to point out that the justification was only given "after a week of silence" - an incredible delay of information from the perspective of the army of a country with the armed forces are being modernized rapidly and are increasingly involvement in international military operations.

It is more incredible with the statement that the two flares were just shot to the air and they were off in the air. Then why the flares fell into the cabin roof and caused a fire. It cannot help but conclude that Chinese military officials "distorted" the truth with lies.

However, from this sophistication, we can see that the Chinese seem to understand the standards of law enforcement activities and the use of force at sea.

If so, perhaps they should investigate and seriously handle the behavior of the naval vessel 786 on March 20, 2013, as being requested by Vietnam.

So the fact is Chinese naval vessels will be allowed to use reasonable force when necessary (if this is unavoidable) against fishing vessels of Vietnam in Hoang Sa?

The answer is clearly NO. The reason is simple: the waters where Vietnamese fishing vessels like the QNg 96382 operate is the place where Vietnam has sovereignty and individual rights in the management and exploitation of the sea with the provisions of international law. China’s occupation of Hoang Sa Archipelago by force does not give China any capacity and China is not allowed to conduct law enforcement operations against fishing vessels of Vietnam, not to mention the use of force against them.

The behavior of Chinese naval ships in the waters of Hoang Sa Archipelago is a violation of Vietnam's sovereignty and the related obligations.

*Violating Vietnam's sovereignty in Hoang Sa*

Vietnam's sovereignty over the Hoang Sa Archipelago is proven through historical evidence and based on a solid legal basis as being analyzed in scientific works of many scholars within and outside countries. [12] With its sovereignty in Hoang Sa, Vietnam has the right to exploit natural resources in the waters of the archipelago in accordance with the provisions of international law. The operation of Vietnamese fishermen in the waters near Hoang Sa for a very long time is both sufficient evidence of sovereignty and the right to exploit the sea here of Vietnam and is the enforcement of legal rights.

Therefore, when being asked about Vietnam's reaction to the incident on March 20, the Vietnamese Foreign Ministry Spokesman Luong Thanh Nghi confirmed that behavior "a serious incident that violated Vietnam's sovereignty over the Hoang Sa Archipelago, threatening and damaging the property of Vietnamese fishermen."

Indeed, international law clearly states that national sovereignty is absolute nature and distinct, in which only sovereign nations are allowed to carry out power-state management measures on their territory. The application of this principle also extends to the territorial waters and the exclusive economic zone. Other countries are obliged to respect the individual and absolute sovereignty or sovereign rights. The consequence of this is a country is not allowed to perform law enforcement measures in the territory or territorial waters of the sovereignty of another country without the consent of that country.

Chinese naval vessels chasing a fishing boat of Vietnam in Vietnam's waters is clear violation of the sovereignty and the duty to respect the sovereignty of Vietnam, because there was no evidence to suggest that this behavior of Chinese naval vessels received the consent of the State of Vietnam. In fact, Vietnam has always opposed any enforcement of state power of the Chinese government here.

However, even though the State of Vietnam has made their sovereignty to the Hoang Sa Archipelago in a peaceful, stable and continuous way since at least the 17th century, taking advantage of the difficulties in the history of Vietnam, China has gradually occupied the Hoang Sa Archipelago since the mid-twentieth century.

After the use of force in 1974, China has won complete control of the archipelago. Needless to say, the use of force to occupy territory does not bring about a nominal sovereignty by international law, along with the prohibition of the use of force in international relations to also eliminate the use of violence as a legitimate method for establishing territorial sovereignty again. Vietnam's sovereignty in the Paracels is still remained and China does not have any rights here, as well as to the relevant waters.

Even so, the Chinese leader Deng Xiaoping, in a meeting with leaders of the Communist Party of Vietnam in September 1975, said: "The two countries have sovereignty dispute over the Hoang Sa and Truong Sa, it will be discussed and solved later." If so, the behavior of the Chinese navy also violated the obligation of peaceful settlement of disputes.

*Violation of the principle of peaceful settlement of international disputes*

Along with setting outlaws the use of force in international relations, international law also sets out obligations for states to "settle international disputes between them by peaceful means." This obligation is recognized in Article 2 (3) of the UN Charter and further clarified by the Manila Declaration on the peaceful settlement of disputes between the countries in 1982 (the Manila Declaration). Paragraph 7 of the Manila Declaration states that "the existence of a dispute and the failure of a mechanism for the peaceful settlement of disputes will not allow any party to use or threaten to use force."

For the disputed territory, international law specially emphasizes the ban of the use of force or threat of use of force. This was confirmed in the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning friendly and cooperation relations between countries in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations in 1970 - the document that is considered complete and accurate explanation of the principles stipulated in the UN Charter. Concerning the principle of prohibiting the use of force in international relations defined in Article 2 (4) of the UN Charter, the Declaration on friendly and cooperation relations stipulates:

Every State has the duty to avoid the use or threat of use of force to violate the existing international boundaries with other nations or as a means to settle international disputes, including territorial disputes or issues related to border of states.

Particularly in the East Sea dispute, there are also commitments between Vietnam and China at the bilateral and regional level on the obligations of peaceful settlement of disputes, non-use or threat of use of force. That is the agreement on the basic principles to direct solving maritime issues between Vietnam and China and the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the East Sea.

Along with the obligations of peaceful settlement of disputes, international law also sets out obligations of refrain for the parties to dispute when the dispute has not been resolved. This obligation is stipulated in the Declaration on friendly and cooperation relations in 1970 and paragraph 8 of the 1982 Manila Declaration. Accordingly, states international disputes "must avoid actions that could escalate the situation in the way of threatening to the maintenance of peace and international security and must act in accordance with the purposes and principles of the United Nations." Similarly, the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the East Sea also stated: "the parties commit to refrain from implementation of activities that would make complication or increase disputes and affect peace and stability ..."

Thus, the Chinese navy’s use of force violated the obligation of peaceful settlement of disputes relating to the Hoang Sa Archipelago and its waters and also violated the obligation of refrain during the dispute resolution process.

China took advantage of its military to maintain illegal control in the Hoang Sa Archipelago and the surrounding waters in the way of threatening the peace and security of the region. Looking at the issue from this angle, there will be no surprise to learn that Deputy Spokesman of the U.S. State Department, Patrick Ventrell, at a press conference on March 26, 2013, said that the United States “strongly opposes the threat of or use of force or coercion by any party to push its claims in the South China Sea (East Sea)."

The spokesman of the Vietnamese Ministry of Foreign Affairs also specified the actions of the Chinese navy ships as "seriously violated the principles of international law, the Agreement on the basic principles for resolving sea-related issues between Vietnam and China, contrary to the spirit of the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the East Sea."

*Conclusion*

With the above analysis, it is possible to understand why the incident on March 30, 2013 was not only strongly opposed by Vietnam and also faced the objections of the United States. China’s violation set out of obligations for China in international law. First, China must immediately terminate violations and make sure that such acts do not recur. In the specific case of the ship QNg 96382 - a case which China’s violation caused damage - China is obliged to pay compensation as Vietnam has requested.

The incidents like the one on March 30, 2013 are largely derived from China’s taking advantage of its illegal occupation to refuse to address sovereignty issue over Hoang Sa. It's time that China should respect the words of the leader who has made great contributions to the development of China and together with Vietnam to resolve the issue of sovereignty over the Hoang Sa Archipelago, either through negotiation or international tribunals.

China’s evasive attitude cannot make the disputes “disappear” as the International Court pointed out: "Whether or not there exists an international dispute is defined as an objective. Rejecting the existence of a dispute does not prove that it does not exist." The international community also has its own verdict: no country, except China, dismisses the fact that Hoang Sa is the territory of dispute.

While the conflict in Hoang Sa is unresolved, China is not allowed to have law enforcement activities against fishing vessels from Vietnam, as not allowed to use force. International law specifies that law enforcement activities are only conducted within the territory of the country. Notably, China itself acknowledges that the law enforcement force of a country is not allowed to practice law in the disputed waters. This view was used by the Chinese Foreign Ministry when the Korean court trialed the captain of a Chinese fishing boat. China's Foreign Ministry declared that the Korean court's verdict is "unacceptable" because the exclusive economic zone of China and South Korea has not been assigned and therefore South Korea could not apply its law in the case.

Before the end of the article, the author wanted to add a few words about the attitude of "turning away" of the Chinese naval ships when they saw the Vietnamese fishing vessel in fire. International law sets obligations for the relief of ships when seeing another ship in distress regardless of the relationship between them. In this case, the Chinese navy ships are the "culprit" causing the accident but they stood far away to see and then leave. With that attitude but some Chinese officials had suggested that China should strengthen the obligations of search and rescue in the East Sea in accordance with international conventions as well as to be appropriate with the so-called nine-dotted line of China. It is hard to not be skeptical about the intentions behind this call: Is this a new "guise" of China to promote its illegal claims in the East Sea based on its superior power to other nations not because of China’s respect of international obligations?

*Anh Tri*

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## key-CN

Dignity large state-owned large country,Small countries of the obligation .If the United States faced in Vietnam，Not so polite.


----------



## Eliter

画册 《西沙西沙》
Album of Xisha Islands（Paracel Islands）
continue
永兴岛 Yongxing Island(Woody Island)7

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Rechoice

Eliter said:


> 画册 《西沙西沙》
> Album of Xisha Islands（Paracel Islands）
> continue
> 永兴岛 Yongxing Island(Woody Island)7



Occupation with force is illegal. Chinese are invaders.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## dichoi

Paracel Islands is territory of Vietnam from long time ago.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Dragon's Soul

Vietnam district is a territory of China from long time ago!

Paracel Islands is territory of Vietnam from long time ago.

View attachment 128762
[/quote]
Vietnam district is a territory of China from long time ago!

Source: South China Sea News & Discussions | Page 500

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## dichoi

Dragon's Soul said:


> Vietnam district is a territory of China from long time ago!
> 
> Paracel Islands is territory of Vietnam from long time ago.
> 
> View attachment 128762


Vietnam district is a territory of China from long time ago!

Source: South China Sea News & Discussions | Page 500[/quote]

chinese aggressors were kicked back to China from long time ago.


----------



## cirr

*CCG 2303*
















Now that's what I call a beauty！

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## dichoi

our beauty is the pic of map Vietnam with Pracels and Spratly islands.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

Two 12000-tonne CCG monsters under construction at JNS：

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## dichoi

Spratly and Paracels is territory of Vietnam.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

The 4th LPD shaping up nicely at HDS：

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

Lots of “goodies” lining up the Yangtze River bank in Wuhan，Central China：











CCG 2306





CCG 1305 and CCG XXXX for the sharp eyed 





CCG 2501





Landing craft 981





F92 for export





*Last but not least，a new type of conventional submarine will soon be launched at the yard。*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## dichoi

Hoang Sa is Islands of Vietnam./

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

3450-tonne *CCG 1301、1302、1303、1304*.。。。。






with guns、water canons、helicopter hangar etc。

Churning out like sausages

12 in total for the current batch。

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Soryu

cirr said:


> 3450-tonne *CCG 1301、1302、1303、1304*.。。。。
> 
> with guns、water canons、helicopter hangar etc。
> 
> Churning out like sausages
> 
> 12 in total for the current batch。


Can you provide some info to prove all of those ships are or will deploy on South China Sea !?
Or all these ships just for show up here for some Ah-Q feel happy !?

@Hu Songshan: can you ask him about his job here !? He does nothing but posting Chinese ship pictures !???


----------



## key-CN

People are not animals，Need to pee way to confirm their territory.This is just a big joke .


----------



## cirr

Another brand new law enforcement ship（1700-tonne *CMS 9010*） joins the rank 14.10.2014：







广东最大吨位海监船9010号入列 排水量1700吨|中国海监|设计排水量_凤凰军事 



Soryu said:


> Can you provide some info to prove all of those ships are or will deploy on South China Sea !?
> Or all these ships just for show up here for some Ah-Q feel happy !?
> 
> @Hu Songshan: can you ask him about his job here !? He does nothing but posting Chinese ship pictures !???



Ships come and go。

Yes，these ships will show up in the SCS one day to give you guys a run for dear life。

It is expected that China will deploy in the SCS upwards of 200 CCG ships，with tonnage ranging from 600 right up to 12800。

Happy now？

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

cirr said:


> Another brand new law enforcement ship（1700-tonne *CMS 9010*） joins the rank 14.10.2014：
> 
> View attachment 132170
> 
> 
> 广东最大吨位海监船9010号入列 排水量1700吨|中国海监|设计排水量_凤凰军事
> 
> 
> 
> Ships come and go。
> 
> Yes，these ships will show up in the SCS one day to give you guys a run for dear life。
> 
> It is expected that China will deploy in the SCS upwards of 200 CCG ships，with tonnage ranging from 600 right up to 12800。
> 
> Happy now？


yes, use your mouth to deploy 200 CCG ships come to SCS now, can you !?


----------



## Zerozen

All these island building are ecological destruction right there.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

The largest island in the South China Sea - Yongshudao（Fiery Cross Reef turned into island）：






The smaller patch is the Taiping Island（Itu Aba Island）under the control of Taiwan，ROC。











Work in progress。

Do more，talk less

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Rechoice

cirr said:


> Work in progress。
> Do more，talk less



The chinese thief do her job, invaded and stolen property and tried to change it.


----------



## Eliter

南沙群岛 Nansha Qundao,Nansha Islands,Spratly Islands
永暑岛 Yongshu Jiao, Fiery Cross Reef or N.W. (Northwestern) Investigator Reef
Oct.16.2014

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Keel

Zerozen said:


> All these island building are ecological destruction right there.



Temporary inconvenience does not equate to permanent destruction
We can restore the under water and on the land's eco-system there in no time.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Speeder 2

WoW... God speed! 

So when finish it?

Then station permanently:

12 J-11B,
12 JH-7,
HQ6,
HQ16,
24 UAVs: dark swort?
a giant X radar station,
a huge fuel deposit,
6 type 022
2 err, what's the name of those Ukrainian-made assault ships?
2 type 056
2 type 054
1,000+ troopers and logistics
unknown # of SSNs

+ 1 floating N-power station

+

1 4-star hotel
1 budget-hostel chain
2 housing complex
4 karaoke
10 restaurants
1 cinema complex
2 gyms
3. internet gaming cafe
...

pls continue...


----------



## Genesis

Speeder 2 said:


> WoW... God speed!
> 
> So when finish it?
> 
> Then station permanently:
> 
> 12 J-11B,
> 12 JH-7,
> HQ6,
> HQ16,
> 24 UAVs: dark swort?
> a giant X radar station,
> a huge fuel deposit,
> 6 type 022
> 2 err, what's the name of those Ukrainian-made assault ships?
> 2 type 056
> 2 type 054
> 1,000+ troopers and logistics
> unknown # of SSNs
> 
> + 1 floating N-power station
> 
> +
> 
> 1 4-star hotel
> 1 budget-hostel chain
> 2 housing complex
> 4 karaoke
> 10 restaurants
> 1 cinema complex
> 2 gyms
> 3. internet gaming cafe
> ...
> 
> pls continue...



who goes vacation on an island and go to a gaming cafe. lol, waste of money for the trip.


----------



## Aepsilons

Zerozen said:


> All these island building are ecological destruction right there.



Unfortunately, yes....


----------



## cirr

*CCG 1306* formally commissioned：











Seen together with its old brother CCG 1401.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

Speeder 2 said:


> WoW... God speed!
> 
> So when finish it?
> 
> Then station permanently:
> 
> 12 J-11B,
> 12 JH-7,
> HQ6,
> HQ16,
> 24 UAVs: dark swort?
> a giant X radar station,
> a huge fuel deposit,
> 6 type 022
> 2 err, what's the name of those Ukrainian-made assault ships?
> 2 type 056
> 2 type 054
> 1,000+ troopers and logistics
> unknown # of SSNs
> 
> + 1 floating N-power station
> 
> +
> 
> 1 4-star hotel
> 1 budget-hostel chain
> 2 housing complex
> 4 karaoke
> 10 restaurants
> 1 cinema complex
> 2 gyms
> 3. internet gaming cafe
> ...
> 
> pls continue...



CJ series cruise missiles
YJ series anti-ship missiles
HQ-19 and HQ-26 anti-missile and anti-sat missiles
12 J-21 5th gen fighters
12 H-18 or H-20 stealth bombers
Rail guns（electromagnetic guns）
Laser cannons
。。。。


----------



## cirr

*CCG 3402* ready for handover：

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cirr

CCG 3402 commissioned:











The night is still young.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cirr

*CCG 2308* launched：






Sorry about the smog。

My favourite CCG 2501：

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

cirr said:


> Sorry about the smog。



There is toxic air in China now.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Eliter

南沙群岛 Nansha Qundao,Nansha Islands,Spratly Islands
永暑岛 Yongshu Jiao, Fiery Cross Reef or N.W. (Northwestern) Investigator Reef
Oct.18.2014

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Eliter

南沙群岛 Nansha Qundao,Nansha Islands,Spratly Islands
安波沙洲 Anbo Shazhou, Amboyne or Amboyna Cay

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## sweetgrape

永暑岛：Yongshu island, Change in 12 days.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Soryu

*Namyit Island - Spartly Islands
*

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## INDIAPOSITIVE

BEIJING: China on Tuesday warned India about it regards meddling in its dispute with Vietnam over islands in the South China Sea. It also opposed the latest move by the Vietnamese government inviting India to carry out oil exploration in South China Sea. 

"With regard to the Vietnamese prime minister's call for India to support the peaceful resolution of the South China Sea, I want to point out that the dispute should be resolved through dialogue and consultations by countries directly involved on the basis of respecting historical facts and international law," Hong Lei, Chinese foreign ministry spokesman said. 

He was reacting to an offer by Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung asking India to launch exploration in two oil fields for exploration in the South China Sea.


Prime Minister Narendra Modi (right) shakes hands with Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung in New Delhi, on October 28, 2014. (AFP photo)

Dung's offer made in New Delhi has surprised China because its state councillor Yang Jeichi has just returned from Hanoi after discussing measures to improve China-Vietnam relations. 

Hong said India should also respect the efforts being made by China and Vietnam to resolve their dispute instead of trying to play a role in it.



This picture taken on May 14, 2014 from a Vietnamese coast guard ship shows Chinese coast guard vessels sailing near China's oil drilling rig in disputed waters in the South China Sea. (Getty Images photo) 

"Countries directly involved in the South China Sea dispute strive to resolve disputes through negotiation and consultation, and maintain regional peace and stability. Their efforts should be respected by relevant countries," Hong said. 

"This is in line with international laws and common practices," Hong said, "... and is also the consensus reached by China and Asean countries in the DOC (Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea)."

India should not engage itself because it is not a party in the dispute between China and Vietnam over two sea islands. China has indisputable sovereignty over the Nansha (Spratly) Islands in the South China Sea, which is also claimed by Vietnam, Hong said.



Southwest Cay (also known as Pugad Island), is a small island controlled by Vietnam, is part of the Spratly Island chain in the hotly contested South China Sea. (Getty Images photo) 

At the same time, the ministry's reaction was noticeably less harsh compared to Beijing's stance three years back when the ONGC has begun oil exploration in the area in collaboration with a Vietnamese government company. China said it would not object to exploration by India if it was conducted in an area that was outside its claims of sovereignty. 

China does it mind "any lawful and justifiable exploration activity" in the area, the ministry spokesman said. But it is "firmly oppose" if such activity undermines the sovereignty and interests of China," he said.


China warns India about taking up Vietnam's offer for oil exploration in disputed South China Sea - The Times of India

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## RKO

Yeah..you can go to hell!!!

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Narashima

@Chinese-Dragon you are bullying us again


----------



## IndoCarib

Notice the change in China's tone. It knows Modi is no MMS 

*"At the same time, the ministry's reaction was noticeably less harsh compared to Beijing's stance three years back when the ONGC has begun oil exploration in the area in collaboration with a Vietnamese government company. *China said it would not object to exploration by India if it was conducted in an area that was outside its claims of sovereignty.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## dlclong

India think himself is Superpower country，It seems still Nehru forward policy

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Keel

IndoCarib said:


> Notice the change in China's tone. It knows Modi is no MMS
> 
> *"At the same time, the ministry's reaction was noticeably less harsh compared to Beijing's stance three years back when the ONGC has begun oil exploration in the area in collaboration with a Vietnamese government company. *China said it would not object to exploration by India if it was conducted in an area that was outside its claims of sovereignty.



It is because you cant do nothing substantial in the area. You oil companies are incompetent as expected. Let us see if you are on the fast lane to break the banks for the venture. 



RKO said:


> Yeah..you can go to hell!!!



Just stay there and no one is going to see or help you out there!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Tractor

Keel said:


> It is because you cant do nothing substantial in the area. You oil companies are incompetent as expected. Let us see if you are on the fast lane to break the banks for the venture.
> 
> 
> 
> Just stay there and no one is going to see or help you out there!


Just let the Indian to drill and we get the oil.If you have played Warcraft you know what I mean.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ashok mourya

chinese hypocracy......if they work in pakistan occupied kasmir..there is no problem to them...but if we do vicversae ....it gives warning.....who cares there warning.warn as much u want...

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## me_itsme

B


Tractor said:


> Just let the Indian to drill and we get the oil.If you have played Warcraft you know what I mean.


But real life scenario involves real lives, money and a whole bunch of other countries and variables. So yeah its not like playing Warcraft. See India has no intention to make an enemy out of China. China keeps messing in our turf hence India is forced to reciprocate its basic geo politics. If China does not be a pain in the *** for India then India will not be a pain for China.is it that hard to respect each others growth and live in peace?


----------



## jugad

*peaceful rise*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## FaujHistorian

kahonapyarhai said:


> BEIJING: China on Tuesday warned India about it regards meddling in its dispute with Vietnam over islands in the South China Sea. It also opposed the latest move by the Vietnamese government inviting India to carry out oil exploration in South China Sea.
> 
> "With regard to the Vietnamese prime minister's call for India to support the peaceful resolution of the South China Sea, I want to point out that the dispute should be resolved through dialogue and consultations by countries directly involved on the basis of respecting historical facts and international law," Hong Lei, Chinese foreign ministry spokesman said.
> 
> He was reacting to an offer by Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung asking India to launch exploration in two oil fields for exploration in the South China Sea.
> 
> 
> Prime Minister Narendra Modi (right) shakes hands with Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung in New Delhi, on October 28, 2014. (AFP photo)
> 
> Dung's offer made in New Delhi has surprised China because its state councillor Yang Jeichi has just returned from Hanoi after discussing measures to improve China-Vietnam relations.
> 
> Hong said India should also respect the efforts being made by China and Vietnam to resolve their dispute instead of trying to play a role in it.
> 
> 
> 
> This picture taken on May 14, 2014 from a Vietnamese coast guard ship shows Chinese coast guard vessels sailing near China's oil drilling rig in disputed waters in the South China Sea. (Getty Images photo)
> 
> "Countries directly involved in the South China Sea dispute strive to resolve disputes through negotiation and consultation, and maintain regional peace and stability. Their efforts should be respected by relevant countries," Hong said.
> 
> "This is in line with international laws and common practices," Hong said, "... and is also the consensus reached by China and Asean countries in the DOC (Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea)."
> 
> India should not engage itself because it is not a party in the dispute between China and Vietnam over two sea islands. China has indisputable sovereignty over the Nansha (Spratly) Islands in the South China Sea, which is also claimed by Vietnam, Hong said.
> 
> 
> 
> Southwest Cay (also known as Pugad Island), is a small island controlled by Vietnam, is part of the Spratly Island chain in the hotly contested South China Sea. (Getty Images photo)
> 
> At the same time, the ministry's reaction was noticeably less harsh compared to Beijing's stance three years back when the ONGC has begun oil exploration in the area in collaboration with a Vietnamese government company. China said it would not object to exploration by India if it was conducted in an area that was outside its claims of sovereignty.
> 
> China does it mind "any lawful and justifiable exploration activity" in the area, the ministry spokesman said. But it is "firmly oppose" if such activity undermines the sovereignty and interests of China," he said.
> 
> 
> China warns India about taking up Vietnam's offer for oil exploration in disputed South China Sea - The Times of India




In today's politics, these warnings mean jack$hit. 

Now if Chinese navy shows up knocking at the doors of drilling rig, then we see some solid evidence. 

Otherwise 

it remains empty slogans. That's all.


----------



## +4vsgorillas-Apebane

me_itsme said:


> B
> 
> But real life scenario involves real lives, money and a whole bunch of other countries and variables. So yeah its not like playing Warcraft. See India has no intention to make an enemy out of China. China keeps messing in our turf hence India is forced to reciprocate its basic geo politics. If China does not be a pain in the *** for India then India will not be a pain for China.is it that hard to respect each others growth and live in peace?



Relations between China and India went to hell when India acquired delusions of grandeur. China suffered extreme famine in 1962 only to have the problem exacerbated by the Indian forward policy.
Hundreds of PLA soldiers were killed by the Indians while thousands of captured Indian soldiers were fed rice from a starving nation.






Always prodding and poking, the Indians are difficult neighbors. Keep poking the panda and it will eventually lash out.

Peace with India will create a power bloc to rival the rest of the world in a couple od decades. Unfortunately, the Indians have to fcuk it all up every few decades.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Keel

+4vsgorillas-Apebane said:


> Relations between China and India went to hell when India acquired delusions of grandeur. China suffered extreme famine in 1962 only to have the problem exacerbated by the Indian forward policy.
> *Hundreds of PLA soldiers were killed by the Indians while thousands of captured Indian soldiers were fed rice from a starving nation.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Always prodding and poking, the Indians are difficult neighbors. Keep poking the panda and it will eventually lash out.
> 
> Peace with India will create a power bloc to rival the rest of the world in a couple od decades. Unfortunately, the Indians have to fcuk it all up every few decades.



Basically agree to what you said with a minor addition that many more in the thousands of malnutritious Indians were killed before the rest were fed on humanitarian grounds 

The Indians are sneaky cunning snakes

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Viet

China warns

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Keel

Time to build more of this and start our part of drilling in the Indian Ocean:

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## me_itsme

+4vsgorillas-Apebane said:


> Relations between China and India went to hell when India acquired delusions of grandeur. China suffered extreme famine in 1962 only to have the problem exacerbated by the Indian forward policy.
> Hundreds of PLA soldiers were killed by the Indians while thousands of captured Indian soldiers were fed rice from a starving nation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Always prodding and poking, the Indians are difficult neighbors. Keep poking the panda and it will eventually lash out.
> 
> Peace with India will create a power bloc to rival the rest of the world in a couple od decades. Unfortunately, the Indians have to fcuk it all up every few decades.


Okay let's say I agree to what you said. If China is the only country to want peace then why are they trying to dominate India and help her enemies and being aggressive at the borders? If China would stop all this then India would support China in everything. Together the alliance will be very formidable.


----------



## sathya

Chinese are issuing warnings every fortnight nowadays..


----------



## Keel

me_itsme said:


> Okay let's say I agree to what you said. If China is the only country to want peace then why are they trying to dominate India and help her enemies and being aggressive at the borders? If China would stop all this then India would support China in everything. Together the alliance will be very formidable.



Indians have been offensive to China all the time:
1. Taking our land in S Tibet illegally
2. Initiated the stupid " Forward Policy" which has led to our loss of lives
3. Supporting Dalai and the separatists
4. In negotiation of military deals with countries hostile to us
5. Drilling operations in SCS
6. stabbing our back again when we are trying to make $10 bln investment in India

Should we trust this country at all?

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## SarthakGanguly

Keel said:


> Indians have been offensive to China all the time:
> 1. Taking our land in S Tibet illegally
> 2. Initiated the stupid " Forward Policy" which has led to our loss of lives
> 3. Supporting Dalai and the separatists
> 4. In negotiation of military deals with countries hostile to us
> 5. Drilling operations in SCS
> 6. stabbing our back again when we are trying to make $10 bln investment in India
> 
> Should we trust this country at all?


Invade and take it already. Please stop crying. Thanks.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Leonidas

Keel said:


> Indians have been offensive to China all the time:
> 1. Taking our land in S Tibet illegally
> 2. Initiated the stupid " Forward Policy" which has led to our loss of lives
> 3. Supporting Dalai and the separatists
> 4. In negotiation of military deals with countries hostile to us
> 5. Drilling operations in SCS
> 6. stabbing our back again when we are trying to make $10 bln investment in India
> 
> Should we trust this country at all?



and who taught you that, your communist "government"??



+4vsgorillas-Apebane said:


> Relations between China and India went to hell when India acquired delusions of grandeur. China suffered extreme famine in 1962 only to have the problem exacerbated by the Indian forward policy.
> *Hundreds of PLA soldiers were killed by the Indians while thousands of captured Indian soldiers were fed rice from a starving nation.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Always prodding and poking, the Indians are difficult neighbors. *Keep poking the panda and it will eventually lash out*.
> 
> Peace with India will create a power bloc to rival the rest of the world in a couple od decades. Unfortunately, the Indians have to fcuk it all up every few decades.



This nation called India fed almost as much as a small nation during the Bangladesh Liberation War when being itself on the level of starvation. Its called humanity, what's your point?

Trying to get a piece of the Tiger, well you eventually will if you don't come to the grips of yourself.

Agreed that peace with China is important for us as well but unfortunately you never get to know properly who fcuks it up. There's a reason why Hong Kong is demonstrating.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## kadamba-warrior

Keel said:


> Indians have been offensive to China all the time:
> 1. Taking our land in S Tibet illegally
> 2. Initiated the stupid " Forward Policy" which has led to our loss of lives
> 3. Supporting Dalai and the separatists
> 4. In negotiation of military deals with countries hostile to us
> 5. Drilling operations in SCS
> *6. stabbing our back again when we are trying to make $10 bln investment in India*
> 
> Should we trust this country at all?



Stabbing your back? And that too, when you were making investments?

Anyway, what do you have to say about "your" contribution to "Pakistani nuclear bombs missiles"?

We will not be even until every country in Southeast Asia is a Nuclear Weapons State -- *every country in SE Asia with who you have problem*!!!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## dichoi

we hve right to drill oil in our EZZ with our India friend. .

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Yeti

China has interests in Azad Kashmir which is disputed so we can venture in the South China seas, all is fair in love and war!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## C130

China is saying one thing while doing another. they are just buying time. they have no interest in solving the disputes with dialogue and compromise.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## AbidM

Keel said:


> Time to build more of this and start our part of drilling in the Indian Ocean:



Bangladesh has opened itself to investors to drill in the bay of Bengal and the Indian ocean. One of the countries they're looking at as potential investors are China. China, UAE and the lot. China has made a lot of deals with Bangladesh and it has got India on the edge of its seat. China proposed to help build the deep sea port at sonadia island. China also wants BCIM corridor, one of the main reasons why is because it wants to grow its exports. It would take a shorter time to export from kumming to bangladesh. China has a!so offered bangladesh two submarines, so it can fend itself from agreesive myanmur and big brother India. Bangladesh wants this, Bangladesh is looking at its future, a sustainable blue economy, with the by of Bengal and as an importing and exporting hub. The Chinese have expressed particular interest due to geo politics, but Bangladesh said they will remain neutral on all fronts. Bangladesh is aiming to become the switzerland of the east and I think it could work with chomas help.


----------



## dlclong

If war breaks out again, I hope the Indians will not be like 1962, Confuse right and wrong，said China's "invasion" of you,u transnational Indochina, and the Indian Ocean to the South China Sea steal China Petroleum,
it seems you are always pursuing a forward policy. 心比天高，命比纸薄India did not have the strength, but greedy, than American too much.Even if the US, there is no high-profile India.
不见棺材不落泪，
avarice Rapistcious must get proper lessons

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TheNoob

SarthakGanguly said:


> Invade and take it already. Please stop crying. Thanks.



I dont mean to be rude.
But I dont think any country on the planet would like to invade you and start feeding the billion peoples mouth.....
So you are safe as far as the social aspect is concerned. lol


----------



## Beidou2020

Time for China to kick out India out of BRICS and build military bases in Pakistan, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka and arm those countries with strategic weapons.

Then finance and encourage the dozens of separatist movements inside India.

Destabilise the Indian regime.

Time for China to stop treating India as a 'partner' and treat it as an enemy.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Jlaw

dlclong said:


> India think himself is Superpower country，It seems still Nehru forward policy


It's part of the grand scheme but i can't discuss it here.


----------



## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

IndoCarib said:


> Notice the change in China's tone. It knows Modi is no MMS
> 
> *"At the same time, the ministry's reaction was noticeably less harsh compared to Beijing's stance three years back when the ONGC has begun oil exploration in the area in collaboration with a Vietnamese government company. *China said it would not object to exploration by India if it was conducted in an area that was outside its claims of sovereignty.


 
When India conducted exploration outside our claim why we bother to rise our tone?...try otherwise

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Beidou2020

Keel said:


> Time to build more of this and start our part of drilling in the Indian Ocean:



I would build missile defences in Pakistan, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka and station Chinese air and naval assets in military bases in those countries.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Jlaw

dlclong said:


> If war breaks out again, I hope the Indians will not be like 1962, Confuse right and wrong，said China's "invasion" of you,u transnational Indochina, and the Indian Ocean to the South China Sea steal China Petroleum,
> it seems you are always pursuing a forward policy. 心比天高，命比纸薄India did not have the strength, but greedy, than American too much.Even if the US, there is no high-profile India.
> 不见棺材不落泪，
> avarice Rapistcious must get proper lessons


I hope no war because i don't want us to give back their military equipment after we defeat them like 1962.


----------



## Beidou2020

China has dozens of type 056 corvettes, destroy any Indian oil rig in SCS and see what India will do about it.


----------



## ChennaiDude

Beidou2020 said:


> China has dozens of type 056 corvettes, destroy any Indian oil rig in SCS and see what India will do about it.


India can only do something.....if China does what you think China will do...Kids these days..THIS IS NOT 1962....and India is no pushover..so lets just keep giving warnings that should do for now.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## C130

AbidM said:


> Bangladesh has opened itself to investors to drill in the bay of Bengal and the Indian ocean. One of the countries they're looking at as potential investors are China. China, UAE and the lot. China has made a lot of deals with Bangladesh and it has got India on the edge of its seat. China proposed to help build the deep sea port at sonadia island. China also wants BCIM corridor, one of the main reasons why is because it wants to grow its exports. It would take a shorter time to export from kumming to bangladesh. China has a!so offered bangladesh two submarines, so it can fend itself from agreesive myanmur and big brother India. Bangladesh wants this, Bangladesh is looking at its future, a sustainable blue economy, with the by of Bengal and as an importing and exporting hub. The Chinese have expressed particular interest due to geo politics, but Bangladesh said they will remain neutral on all fronts. Bangladesh is aiming to become the switzerland of the east and I think it could work with chomas help.


Bangladesh has little to no oil reserves  how much you think is if offshore?? is there a study


----------



## kadamba-warrior

C130 said:


> China is saying one thing while doing another. they are just buying time. they have no interest in solving the disputes with dialogue and compromise.



Exactly!

Chinese interests are far better served if India is embroiled in petty border disputes & by taking India's focus away from economic development.


----------



## Rechoice

Vietnam PM visit India.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## kadamba-warrior

Beidou2020 said:


> Time for China to kick out India out of BRICS and build military bases in Pakistan, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka and arm those countries with strategic weapons.
> 
> Then finance and encourage the dozens of separatist movements inside India.
> 
> Destabilise the Indian regime.
> 
> Time for China to stop treating India as a 'partner' and treat it as an enemy.



And provide Nuclear weapons and long range ballistic missiles to India's rivals, may be?
Oh wait, you already did that!

Now, how would you like it if India returns the favor with arming all of Indo-china with Nuclear weapons with missiles -- "*to go*" ?!


----------



## Beidou2020

kadamba-warrior said:


> And provide Nuclear weapons and long range ballistic missiles to India's rivals, may be?
> Oh wait, you already did that!
> 
> Now, how would you like it if India returns the favor with arming all of Indo-china with Nuclear weapons with missiles -- "*to go*" ?!



India will need Russian permission for that 



kadamba-warrior said:


> Exactly!
> 
> Chinese interests are far better served if India is embroiled in petty border disputes & by taking India's focus away from economic development.



China would love nothing more than India getting into a war with Pakistan and stagnating India's economic development.

Then fund India's separatist movements to destabilise India.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## atatwolf

India should show the middle finger and start exploring. You are not alone.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## dlclong

atatwolf said:


> India should show the middle finger and start exploring. You are not alone.


You can also add, if you have the ability to. But again like the Korean War, let you very embarrassed.

The barbarians still is the barbarian. 

China is not Syria, kid, send you a middle finger

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## kadamba-warrior

Beidou2020 said:


> India will need Russian permission for that



It takes effort to prevent nuclear proliferation -- not for proliferating it! Nor do you need anybody's permission to share Nuclear weapon secrets.

You know the classic "look-the-other-way" move when somebody is smuggling the weapon designs out! After all, security in India is not that great when it comes to stealing state secrets and we are not a police state.



Beidou2020 said:


> *China would love nothing more than India getting into a war with Pakistan and stagnating India's economic development.*



That is hardly a secret, mate! Even the kids know what it is that China has been trying, first by arming Pakistan and then by re-opening border issues just when we started looking into our economy. "Forward Policy 2.0", as your compatriots call it fancily, is all BS. In reality, you guys are itching for a fight -- all due to your new found wealth.



Beidou2020 said:


> Then fund India's separatist movements to destabilise India.



Separatist movements just like Uighurs?

Unfortunately for you, you are also going to get a healthy dosage of your own medicine if it if your involvement in any separatist movement in India is established.


----------



## Beidou2020

kadamba-warrior said:


> It takes effort to prevent nuclear proliferation -- not for proliferating it! Nor do you need anybody's permission to share Nuclear weapon secrets.
> 
> You know the classic "look-the-other-way" move when somebody is smuggling the weapon designs out! After all, security in India is not that great when it comes to stealing state secrets and we are not a police state.
> 
> 
> 
> That is hardly a secret, mate! Even the kids know what it is that China has been trying, first by arming Pakistan and then by re-opening border issues just when we started looking into our economy. "Forward Policy 2.0", as your compatriots call it fancily, is all BS. In reality, you guys are itching for a fight -- all due to your new found wealth.
> 
> 
> 
> Separatist movements just like Uighurs?
> 
> Unfortunately for you, you are also going to get a healthy dosage of your own medicine if it if your involvement in any separatist movement in India is established.



China has Tibetans and Uighurs who are being crushed.

While India has separatist movements all over India 

India is not really a country, its a union like Yugoslavia. China can fund separatist movements all over India and the entire Indian union will collapse quicker than Yugoslavia.

India starts playing games with China in funding separatists, India will lose like it lost in 1962.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## kadamba-warrior

Beidou2020 said:


> China has Tibetans and Uighurs who are being crushed.
> 
> While India has separatist movements all over India
> 
> India is not really a country, its a union like Yugoslavia. China can fund separatist movements all over India and the entire Indian union will collapse quicker than Yugoslavia.
> 
> India starts playing games with China in funding separatists, India will lose like it lost in 1962.




Right! Chinese can fund separatist movements in India -- as you yourself claim, but will not like it if somebody gives it back to you?

Anyway, your "strategic partner" is already doing the dirty work by providing training and safe-havens for your trouble-makers!
So India only needs to sit back and watch the show in Xinjiang!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## atatwolf

dlclong said:


> You can also add, if you have the ability to. But again like the Korean War, let you very embarrassed.
> 
> The barbarians still is the barbarian.
> 
> China is not Syria, kid, send you a middle finger


Korean War? Oh you mean the war where China had millions of dead soldiers because of your failed invasion. LoL. Why does South Korea exist today? 



kadamba-warrior said:


> Right! Chinese can fund separatist movements in India -- as you yourself claim, but will not like it if somebody gives it back to you?
> 
> Anyway, your "strategic partner" is already doing the dirty work by providing training and safe-havens for your trouble-makers!
> So India only needs to sit back and watch the show in Xinjiang!


Pakistan is only using China as a paper towel. Nobody will accept Chinese crimes. It is good that China is naïve. It will only mean they will awaken to a nightmare.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## T-Rex

dlclong said:


> India think himself is Superpower country，It seems still Nehru forward policy


*
Your leader's expectation from india was unrealistic. India will remain india, she may have it in a more disguised form but she will not discard her 'forward policy'; it's in her blood. India is going to equip China's foes like Vietnam with everything she gets from Russia and the israelis and there's no but about it. Now, the ball is in China's court, what is China going to do about it?*


----------



## jkroo

Keel said:


> Indians have been offensive to China all the time:
> 1. Taking our land in S Tibet illegally
> 2. Initiated the stupid " Forward Policy" which has led to our loss of lives
> 3. Supporting Dalai and the separatists
> 4. In negotiation of military deals with countries hostile to us
> 5. Drilling operations in SCS
> 6. stabbing our back again when we are trying to make $10 bln investment in India
> 
> Should we trust this country at all?


The funiest thing to me is, several days ago, they are talking to accept the offers and now they are talking their acceptance of warning. And yes, these threads all post by them, yes in China & Far East sub furom. 
There may be a fierce fight in their mind, its really not good to their mentality.



T-Rex said:


> *Your leader's expectation from india was unrealistic. India will remain india, she may have it in a more disguised form but she will not discard her 'forward policy'; it's in her blood. India is going to equip China's foes like Vietnam with everything she gets from Russia and the israelis and there's no but about it. Now, the ball is in China's court, what is China going to do about it?*


Keep holding the balls.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## T-Rex

jkroo said:


> The funiest thing to me is, several days ago, they are talking to accept the offers and now they are talking their acceptance of warning. And yes, these threads all post by them, yes in China & Far East sub furom.
> There may be a fierce fight in their mind, its really not good to their mentality.
> 
> 
> Keep holding the balls.


*
Some people say that mother india has them in a tight grip though I do not agree with those people!*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## dlclong

atatwolf said:


> Korean War? Oh you mean the war where China had millions of dead soldiers because of your failed invasion. LoL. Why does South Korea exist today?


Kid, you have to learn history. and to know the Turkish army in the Korean War is how to be annihilated. haha



T-Rex said:


> *Your leader's expectation from india was unrealistic. India will remain india, she may have it in a more disguised form but she will not discard her 'forward policy'; it's in her blood. India is going to equip China's foes like Vietnam with everything she gets from Russia and the israelis and there's no but about it. Now, the ball is in China's court, what is China going to do about it?*


"Friends come with good wine welcome,
If the wolf comeing,
Meet it is a shotgun."

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Beidou2020

kadamba-warrior said:


> Right! Chinese can fund separatist movements in India -- as you yourself claim, but will not like it if somebody gives it back to you?
> 
> Anyway, your "strategic partner" is already doing the dirty work by providing training and safe-havens for your trouble-makers!
> So India only needs to sit back and watch the show in Xinjiang!



China can fund every separatist movement in India which will break up the entire Indian union. Since your regime has very little control over your country, it's extremely easy to do destabilising activities with the funds China has.

Tibet and Xinjiang is already under tight control. India don't have the capabilities or the funds to destabilise all of China while China can pretty much collapse India if it decides to fund and support the staggering number of separatist movements in India.

India is not a country, its a forced union of 34 countries. India is just another Yugoslavia. The separatists will love the covert Chinese support from funding to weaponry. 

Good luck countering all those separatists all across your country with the limited amount of funds and lack of control your regime has over your country 



atatwolf said:


> Korean War? Oh you mean the war where China had millions of dead soldiers because of your failed invasion. LoL. Why does South Korea exist today?
> 
> 
> Pakistan is only using China as a paper towel. Nobody will accept Chinese crimes. It is good that China is naïve. It will only mean they will awaken to a nightmare.



Nope.

The Korean War where China kicked out of the US and 13 of its allies in the People's War.

The existence of North Korea as a country is proof of Chinese victory. Without Chinese intervention, Korea would be a united country under American rule. 

Chinese volunteer army put an end so called 'American military superiority'

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## terranMarine

dlclong said:


> Kid, you have to learn history. and to know the Turkish army in the Korean War is how to be annihilated. haha



Turkey learned its lessons, that's why the lonely Turk here can only dream about liberating Xinjiang while his government doesn't care at all. We shall continue to gun down these pesky terrorists and lonely wolf shall continue to cry whenever we execute them one by one.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## SarthakGanguly

TheNoob said:


> So you are safe as far as the social aspect is concerned.


See? Now that's called a deterrent.


----------



## TheNoob

SarthakGanguly said:


> See? Now that's called a deterrent.



A really effective one at that as well. :L


----------



## cirr

The world's largest coast guard ship nearly ready for launch：

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## AbidM

C130 said:


> Bangladesh has little to no oil reserves  how much you think is if offshore?? is there a study



Bangladesh may have little to no oil reserves but the bay of bengal has quite a large sum of gas reserves for a small country, "Its proven gas reserve is 6.0 trillion cubic feet while probable reserve is 5.5 tcf." (SOURCE: Reuters) and considering that majority of things are being run on CNG (compressed natural gas) in Bangladesh, than that findings good.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## AbidM

Beidou2020 said:


> I would build missile defences in Pakistan, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka and station Chinese air and naval assets in military bases in those countries.



China needs not to worry, India is already claiming that china is building a string of pearls with deep sea port development in each of the countries you mentioned. 

Here's the run down. 
China has helped build the
Gwadar port in Pakistan
Colombo International Container Terminal/Port in Sri Lanka

Planning to help build ports at in/
A deep sea port at Sonadia Island, Cox's Bazaar in Bangladesh
Also an ongoing feasability study to build a deep sea port in Kutubdia island, Chittagong in Bangladesh
A dry port in Nepal.
China is also looking at Myanmar.

All the countries you listed said that they will not allow any country to operate militarily on their dea ports. 
China has also planned to help build several townships in the countries mentioned above. 

China's primary country of Focus in South Asia is Bangladesh. This is because Bangladesh is located at the mouth of the Bay of Bengal, that would mean they have control over a majority of the Bay of Bengal and the indian ocean, in terms of trade, commerce and an advantage in warfare. Bangladesh is also the gateway from south asia to south east asia, vice versa, meaning that it can potentially be a stopping point for goods as far as hong kong traveling to Mumbai, by road. 

Infact china isn't the only country interested in Bangladesh, so is America and Russia, both are interested for the first point I made, if you have a base in the bay of bengal, than you control major sea routes. 

What's on the line? 
Regional connectivity which boast the india's seven sister states, Bangladesh and China are on the line. The BCIM corridor as I mentioned before, is a vital trade route, which dates back to silk road era and is being proposed again, for regional connectivity, if a conflict occurs than the BCIM corridor isn't likely to happen. 

Also Both China and India are probably going to be in a losing battle. If a conflict breaks out between China and India, than spratist movement in both countries will probably engage in war too, and try and succed from one another?

A run down of hostile areas in Both countries.
China: Tibet Autonomous Region,, Xijiang province, Inner Mongolia and Hong Kong.
India, all the seven siter states, Arunachal Pradesh,Assam, Manipur, Meghalaya, Mizoram, Nagaland, and Tripura, Jammu and Kashmir. 

Either way it won't look good for any of the countries. Both countries will be wedged in conflict between each other and conflict inside their own country. 

India should just back the f*** up, but they probably wont cause they still alldge that china is building a string of pearls in south asia, that's probably why India has keen interest in viet nam, cause than it can get back at china. 

Also I would like to note that if the bay of bengal/Bangladesh engages in war than Japan would be there to help it due to a defence contract signed earlier by the two armies. Bangladesh and Japan and Malaysia are on good terms.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Carlosa

Very interesting article, quite a surprise. I've tried to find those pictures online, but could not. If somebody find them, please post them.

Satellite photo shows Vietnam's land reclamation in South China Sea｜Politics｜News｜WantChinaTimes.com

Satellite images captured by Taiwan indicate that Vietnam is pushing for land reclamation much harder than China in the disputed South China Sea, the Christian Science Monitor reported on Sept. 23.

Wang Cheng-gi from the Satellite Surveying Center of the Department of Land Administration under Taiwan's Ministry of the Interior, who is in charge of a US$3 million project to produce high-resolution satellite images of the disputed South China Sea, said he was surprised to find out that Vietnam is developing reefs and artificial islands in the disputed Spratlys. He also said that *one Vietnamese landfill project spans 11 football fields*.

"Everyone is talking about mainland China, but Vietnam is going all out," Wang said.

The Spratly islands are variously claimed in whole or in part by China, Taiwan, Vietnam, the Philippines, Brunei and Malaysia. Taiping, also referred to as Itu Aba, was the largest island in the group before the large scale land reclamation projects got underway and is the only island currently under Taiwan's control. An armed conflict between Taipei and Hanoi could potentially take place in the future if Vietnam continues to expand its influence in the region.

Alexander Huang, professor of strategic studies at Tamkang University in New Taipei, said the high-resolution satellite images will give Taiwan could be a valuable intelligence asset to scholars in Washington in assessing the basis of China's claim to the islands.

Tensions in the region have been high over the past year, with China and Vietnam getting into a standoff over the deployment of an oil rig to waters near the disputed Paracels–claimed variously by China, Vietnam and Taiwan–in May, leading to widespread protests in Vietnam and several factories run (or perceived to be run by) Chinese being looted and burned.

According to the article, the US has offered defense aid to the Philippines in an effort to counter China's expansion in the region.

References:

Wang Cheng-gi 王成機

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## dichoi

we did nothing. bro


----------



## Eliter

Carlosa said:


> Very interesting article, quite a surprise. I've tried to find those pictures online, but could not. If somebody find them, please post them.
> 
> Satellite photo shows Vietnam's land reclamation in South China Sea｜Politics｜News｜WantChinaTimes.com
> 
> Satellite images captured by Taiwan indicate that Vietnam is pushing for land reclamation much harder than China in the disputed South China Sea, the Christian Science Monitor reported on Sept. 23.
> 
> Wang Cheng-gi from the Satellite Surveying Center of the Department of Land Administration under Taiwan's Ministry of the Interior, who is in charge of a US$3 million project to produce high-resolution satellite images of the disputed South China Sea, said he was surprised to find out that Vietnam is developing reefs and artificial islands in the disputed Spratlys. He also said that *one Vietnamese landfill project spans 11 football fields*.



Now，Vietnam is developing reefs and artificial islands in the Spratlys(Nansha Islands) Two reefs:
Sin Cowe Island(Jinghong Dao、景宏岛) and West London Reef( Xi Jiao 、西礁)


----------



## dichoi

our project is just began.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Eliter

Now，Vietnam is developing reefs and artificial islands in the Spratlys(Nansha Islands) Two reefs:
Sin Cowe Island(Jinghong Dao、景宏岛) and West London Reef( Xi Jiao 、西礁)
如果辽宁号抵达永暑岛
If The Carrier Liao Ning to Fiery Cross Island


----------



## Soryu

Eliter said:


> Now，Vietnam is developing reefs and artificial islands in the Spratlys(Nansha Islands) Two reefs:
> Sin Cowe Island(Jinghong Dao、景宏岛) and West London Reef( Xi Jiao 、西礁)
> 如果辽宁号抵达永暑岛
> If The Carrier Liao Ning to Fiery Cross Island



*Sin Cowe Island*, also known as *Sinh Ton Island*,[1] (Tagalog: _Rurok_; Chinese: 景宏岛; pinyin: _Jinghong Dao_; Vietnamese:_Đảo Sinh Tồn_) is an island in the Spratly Islands in the South China Sea. With an area of 8 hectares (20 acres), it is the seventh largest Spratly island and the third largest of those occupied by Vietnam. _*It has a fringing reef which is above water at low tide.*_

And we're living, building on that from long time ago, so it's not violate DOC. But PRC did.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cirr

CCG 2303 and 2304：






Zubr #3


----------



## cirr

The big White Shark CCG 2901 is coming：

http://v.ifeng.com/include/exterior.swf?guid=01c86815-0470-4972-9d8a-5bc2cc64ac56&AutoPlay=false

Launch 05.11.2014


----------



## Soryu

@Hu Songshan can you check this Topic ?
Recently, everytime I come here, AVAST anti-virus software keep warning me about mal-ware and trojan.

P/S: you should check Mr.Cirr 's image link ...


----------



## cirr

*CCG 2901*








Coming up next：*CCG 3901*

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Rechoice

Last update 09:27 | 07/11/2014
*Vietnam's opposition to illegal survey in Ba Binh island*
_On November 5, Taiwan continued its illegal survey in Ba Binh island, part of Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelago of Vietnam._






In response to reporters’ questions about Vietnam's reaction to the wrongful act, deputy spokesman for the Vietnam Ministry of Foreign Affairs Pham Thu Hang, during a press conference on November 11, stressed, "Once again we strongly assert our sovereignty over Hoang Sa (Paracel) and Truong Sa archipelagos.”

"All activities of the parties in this area without the consent of Vietnam are illegal, and null and void. We resolutely oppose." the spokesperson emphasized.

Regarding Vietnam’s participation in the 22 nd Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) Economic Leaders’ Meeting in Beijing, China from November 9-11 and the ASEAN Summit in Myanmar on November 12, the official said the country will make positive contributions to the maintenance of peace, stability, maritime and aviation security and safety in the East Sea on the basis of respecting international law, as well as sovereignty, sovereign rights and jurisdiction of coastal states.

Speaking of the collaboration between the Foreign Ministry and the Ministry of Health on Ebola prevention, Hang said the two ministries will issue updates and guidelines to Vietnamese representative offices abroad, especially in Ebola-affected countries, so they can warn Overseas Vietnamese on how to protect themselves against the fatal disease.

_VOV/VNN_


----------



## cirr

The building of law enforcement ships continues at HPS：






New 1500T CCG ship launched：

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Rechoice

Last update 17:50 | 06/11/2014
0
*China urged to stop illegal activities on Truong Sa*
_On October 6, a Vietnam Ministry of Foreign Affair representative presented a diplomatic note to the China Embassy in Hanoi, opposing China’s illegal activities on Chu Thap (Stone Cross) of Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelago._

In response to the wrongful act, Foreign Ministry spokesperson Le Hai Binh stated, "Vietnam has sufficient legal and historical evidence to affirm its sovereignty over Hoang Sa (Paracel) and Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelagos.
China’s aforesaid act has seriously violated Vietnam's sovereignty over the Spratly Islands and international law, running counter to the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the East Sea (DOC) as well as the agreement on the basic principles guiding the settlement of sea-related issues between Vietnam and China, disrupting the status quo and complicating the situation, detrimental to regional peace and stability.”

"Vietnam resolutely opposes the above unlawful act and asks China to respect the sovereignty of Vietnam, strictly implement the DOC, immediately put an end to the construction that have broken the status quo in Truong Sa islands, and prevent similar occurrences, " Binh emphasized.

_VOV/VNN_


----------



## Eliter

Nansha Qundao,Nansha Islands,Spratly Islands 2014

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

Eliter said:


> Nansha Qundao,Nansha Islands,Spratly Islands 2014



Pls learn how to post pic here.Please Click Here to learn about the new method to post pictures in threads.

Source: South China Sea News & Discussions | Page 507


----------



## boke

唧唧歪歪的在这里拽的，在中国南海抢占岛礁最多的越南，不要以为得了便宜还不卖乖能有什么好下场，不怕你闹，29个岛礁，记清楚了，你闹的再欢也没用，中国的领土一寸都不会少，必定全部收回。就奇了怪了，美国人都敢做的事情你们敢肆无忌惮，你们凭什么？越南的实力还是越南的民心？贼就是贼，盗就是盗，就算你给自己洗脑的再彻底，那也是活在自己的梦里。中国会让你们回到现实的！


----------



## Rechoice

boke said:


> 唧唧歪歪的在这里拽的，在中国南海抢占岛礁最多的越南，不要以为得了便宜还不卖乖能有什么好下场，不怕你闹，29个岛礁，记清楚了，你闹的再欢也没用，中国的领土一寸都不会少，必定全部收回。就奇了怪了，美国人都敢做的事情你们敢肆无忌惮，你们凭什么？越南的实力还是越南的民心？贼就是贼，盗就是盗，就算你给自己洗脑的再彻底，那也是活在自己的梦里。中国会让你们回到现实的！



This is engliish forum, not webo, kid. Stop lying here with cheap propaganda.


----------



## cirr

*Yongshudao* 17.11.2014：

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Globenim

cirr said:


> *Yongshudao* 17.11.2014：
> 
> View attachment 153011



Thee speed of this construction is almost worrysome. As if we they where digging trenches knowing about some plans of Vietnam, Japan or maybe even the Philipines to escalate or provoke a war.


----------



## ahojunk

cirr said:


> *Yongshudao* 17.11.2014：
> 
> View attachment 153011



Do you have new pics of the other reef/island reclamation?


----------



## ahojunk

Airbus Defence and Space imagery dated 14 November 2014 shows Chinese land reclamation operations under way at Fiery Cross Reef in the South China Sea. Multiple operating dredgers provide the ability to generate terrain rapidly. Operating from a harbour area, dredgers deliver sediment via a network of piping.


----------



## Rechoice

Last update 17:50 | 06/11/2014
0
*China urged to stop illegal activities on Truong Sa*
_On October 6, a Vietnam Ministry of Foreign Affair representative presented a diplomatic note to the China Embassy in Hanoi, opposing China’s illegal activities on Chu Thap (Stone Cross) of Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelago._

In response to the wrongful act, Foreign Ministry spokesperson Le Hai Binh stated, "Vietnam has sufficient legal and historical evidence to affirm its sovereignty over Hoang Sa (Paracel) and Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelagos.
China’s aforesaid act has seriously violated Vietnam's sovereignty over the Spratly Islands and international law, running counter to the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the East Sea (DOC) as well as the agreement on the basic principles guiding the settlement of sea-related issues between Vietnam and China, disrupting the status quo and complicating the situation, detrimental to regional peace and stability.”

"Vietnam resolutely opposes the above unlawful act and asks China to respect the sovereignty of Vietnam, strictly implement the DOC, immediately put an end to the construction that have broken the status quo in Truong Sa islands, and prevent similar occurrences, " Binh emphasized.

_VOV/VNN_

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ahojunk

*China building airstrip-capable island on Fiery Cross Reef*
*James Hardy, London and Sean O'Connor, Indiana* - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
20 November 2014

*Key Points*

China is reclaiming land at Fiery Cross Reef in the Spratly Islands, according to satellite imagery
The reclamation, which started in August, is creating a land mass large enough for a 3,000 m-long airstrip
China is building an island at least 3,000 m long on Fiery Cross Reef that could be the site for its first airstrip in the Spratly Islands in the South China Sea.

Satellite imagery of the island taken on 8 August and 14 November shows that in the past three months Chinese dredgers have created a land mass that is almost the entire length of the reef.

Fiery Cross Reef lies to the west of the main Spratly island archipelago and was previously under water; the only habitable area was a concrete platform built and maintained by China's People's Liberation Army Navy (PLAN).

The new island is more than 3,000 m long and between 200 and 300 m wide: large enough to construct a runway and apron. The dredgers are also creating a harbour to the east of the reef that would appear to be large enough to receive tankers and major surface combatants.

The existing structure on the reef's southwestern edge was home to a PLAN garrison and had a pier, air-defence guns, anti-frogmen defences, communications equipment, and a greenhouse. The concrete structure is currently not attached to the new island, but if previous Chinese land reclamation projects in the Spratlys are any guide, it is only a matter of time before it is joined up.

The Spratly Islands are claimed by Brunei, China, Malaysia, the Philippines, Taiwan, and Vietnam. All but Brunei occupy islands or have built structures on reefs and shoals to assert their claims.

The land reclamation at Fiery Cross is the fourth such project undertaken by China in the Spratly Islands in the last 12-18 months and by far the largest in scope. China has built new islands at Johnson South Reef, Cuateron Reef, and Gaven Reefs, but none are large enough to house an airstrip in their current form.

Ship tracking data from IHS Maritime shows substantial activity at the reef since May 2014. Analysts drew attention to two ships in particular: _Jin Hang Jun 406_ , a grab dredger that is fixed on a pontoon, and 3,086-tonne cutter suction dredger _Xin Hai Tun_ . Both have been instrumental in dredging and cutting channels into the new harbour basin.

*ANALYSIS*
_IHS Jane's_ previously reported on China's reclamation project in the Spratlys and noted that until recently Fiery Cross appeared to be acting as a staging post for other island building projects. Given its status as the largest PLAN facility in the Spratlys, this seemed to be an anomaly, something that the 14 November imagery has now corrected.

China has been at a distinct disadvantage compared with other claimants in the Spratly Islands as it is the only claimant not to occupy an island with an airfield. Taiwan has Itu Aba (Taiping) island, the Philippines has Pagasa island, Malaysia has Swallow Reef (a reef on which it reclaimed land and built an airstrip), and Vietnam has Southwest Cay.

The work at Fiery Cross thus brings parity but is likely to cause alarm among the other claimants. China has previously shown it is willing to spend blood and treasure to assert its territorial claims in this region. Given its massive military advantage over the other claimants in terms of quantity and quality of materiel, this facility appears purpose-built to coerce other claimants into relinquishing their claims and possessions, or at least provide China with a much stronger negotiating position if talks over the dispute were ever held.


----------



## ahojunk

Fiery Cross Reef image on Nov. 23, 2014

Looks like China is going full speed in the build up of Fiery Cross (or Yongshu) Island.

Quite likely there will be an airstrip on the west side which can be 3 km in length, a harbor on the east with docking facilities for tankers and large ships.

The reclamation will soon extend and encompass the existing Yongshu installation on the southern tip.

I think China will develop fisheries (fish farming, aquaculture) and tourism to get some return on its investment and strengthen its hold in this area.
.


----------



## ahojunk

It's about a week since the last post.

I am curious with China's progress in reclamation of the reefs in SCS.

Do we have newer pictures of Yongshu (Fiery Cross), Chigua (Johnson South), Nanxun (Gaven), Huayang (Cuateron), Dongmen (Hughes) or others?

I heard that reclamation at Subi is starting soon.


----------



## Solomon2

NOVEMBER/DECEMBER 2014
*Dispatch from Vietnam: Will the US Foster a Natural Ally?*
Michael J. Totten






*N*early forty years after the Vietnam War, Hanoi holds no grudges against the United States, in part because nearly all the country’s negative energy today is focused on China. And for good reason: China is big; it’s powerful; it’s right next door; and it has been hostile for two thousand years. Vietnam’s war with the US will never be repeated, but its long history of conflict with China, which is roughly as old now as Christianity, hasn’t been settled and might be revving up yet again.

Earlier this year, Vietnamese and Chinese naval vessels squared off in the South China Sea when China installed an oil rig in disputed waters. No one was hurt in this confrontation, but several Chinese nationals in Vietnam were killed later, in response to the incident, when furious mobs of Vietnamese rioters attacked Chinese-owned factories. Thousands of Chinese citizens left Vietnam in the wake of the violence. The government cracked down on what it rightly called “hooligans,” but relations between the two countries remain testier than they’ve been in a quarter-century.

This recent conflict may well blow over, but the tension that sparked it in the first place is not going anywhere. Vietnam and China both claim the Paracel Islands, and the Spratly Islands farther south are claimed by yet four more countries in Southeast Asia, but China claims almost the entire sea, more than a thousand miles from its own mainland, well south of Vietnam, and nearly all the way down to the coast of Malaysia.

*Related Essay*
*Hanoi’s Break with Beijing*
Hai Hong Nguyen andCharles Knight | ESSAY
Hanoi’s days of deference to China may be ending—and a new strategic alignment emerging—in the wake of increased tensions between over Beijing’s aggressive maritime claims.​
Chinese maps show a so-called “nine-dash line” that supposedly delimits these claims over the sea. The line is also known as the “cow’s tongue line” for its vague U-shape. The United States insists rightly that this line is inconsistent with international maritime law, but Washington takes no position on who owns either the Paracels or the Spratlys. I spent quite a bit of time looking into it myself and had to give up in frustration. There are no right answers. These are legitimate disputes that need to be resolved amicably.

Vietnam refuses to recognize China’s claim over the Paracels, but *at least Vietnam recognizes that China is making what it sees as an invalid claim. China, on the other hand, doesn’t even recognize that Vietnam has an invalid claim, making peaceful resolution all but impossible.*

Robert D. Kaplan’s latest book, _Asia’s Cauldron: The South China Sea and the End of a Stable Pacific_, describes maritime Southeast Asia as a major upcoming theater of conflict. “The composite picture,” he writes, “is of a cluster of states that, with problems of domestic legitimacy and state-building largely behind them, are ready to advance their perceived territorial rights beyond their own shores. This outward collective push is located in the demographic cockpit of the globe; it is here in Southeast Asia, with its nearly 600 million people, where China’s 1.3 billion people converge with the Indian Subcontinent’s 1.5 billion people. And the geographic meeting place of all these states is maritime: the South China Sea.”

Most modern wars are fought over power and ideology rather than resources, but a conflict in the South China Sea would be old school. It could begin and end with relatively minor naval skirmishes or it could escalate. Nobody knows. Either way, China and Vietnam are both growing economically and militarily more powerful, and they’re both expanding their presence in the South China Sea at the same time the United States is scaling back, creating a situation ripe with potential for a serious face-off.

“China makes us nervous sometimes,” says Huy Dang, a Hanoi resident from the south who works for General Motors. “Our common sense tells us not to trust the Chinese. We don’t use Chinese products. They’re bad quality.”

But what about the Chinese government and military? Do everyday Vietnamese feel threatened by the colossus to the north?

“Sometimes,” Dang says. “They’ve been here for thousands of years and they’re a big country. Living next to a very aggressive neighbor that’s crazy and big, we feel their presence. We think there will be military conflict over the dispute in the sea. It could be a short conflict like in 1979, but if they keep threatening us we might do something. They have to know they don’t scare us. But a war like the one between Vietnam and America is not going to happen. We live in the modern world now and this is a civilized country.”


*I*f any country in Southeast Asia resists China militarily, it will be Vietnam. No one else is interested or capable, but Vietnam has the ability and will to push back against its “big brother.” Vietnam wouldn’t exist as a sovereign state today if it weren’t eminently capable of pushing back hard. It would have been absorbed long ago like Xinjiang and Tibet. Not only did the North Vietnamese successfully outlast American intervention in the 1960s and ’70s, but Vietnam repelled the Chinese invasion of 1979 in less than a month.

“When small countries worry about big countries, it’s a question of life and death,” says Hoang Anh Tuan, head of Vietnam’s Institute for Foreign Policy and Strategic Studies at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. “China has invaded Vietnam around twenty times. We’ve had a war on average every hundred years, but since 1949 we’ve had six conflicts. That’s one on average every ten years. The intensity of China’s aggressiveness has been ten times greater since the establishment of the People’s Republic of China.”

The Ministry of Foreign Affairs is a serious place where Americans can feel quickly at ease. Its foreign-policy professionals are open and friendly. They see the world similarly enough to Americans that I clicked with them easily. With the end of the Cold War and the end of communism in all but name in Vietnam, Hanoi is a natural ally.

I asked Tuan, who holds a Ph.D. in history, if he expects another war with China. He said of course.

“Why wouldn’t there be another war?” he said. “We’ve had wars with China for twenty centuries. We don’t want any more—we need peace in this country—but we have to prepare for the worst-case scenario. We will only fight if we’re forced to fight, but China is forcing us into a corner.”

Communist economics crippled China for decades and made it weaker than it otherwise could have been, but even with all the self-inflicted calamities suffered during the Maoist period China still waged a series of adventures abroad, most famously its invasion and annexation of Tibet in the 1950s. Beijing is less ideological now, to be sure, but it’s also vastly more prosperous and can afford to invest extraordinary resources into building a superpower-class army and navy.

“If China gets away with it,” Tuan says, “who will be the next victim? We’re a front-line state. China could deploy hundreds or thousands of oil rigs inside its nine-dash line. A red line needs to be imposed, and if China crosses it, a price must be paid. And that price must increase every time China crosses it or it will become more aggressive.”

Tuan compares Southeast Asia to Central Europe during the run-up to World War II, and the West’s response to Chinese behavior to the appeasement of Nazi Germany in 1938.

“Germany paid no price for invading and annexing the German-speaking areas of Czechoslovakia. The appeasement strategy adopted by Britain and France didn’t work. If Britain and France would have imposed a price on Germany, we might not have had the Second World War. The world is appeasing China, but it’s better to stop China at the earliest possible stage. The price to stop an assertive China later will be much greater.”

China’s behavior is not even remotely equivalent to that of the Nazis, and in truth Tuan didn’t say it was, but I still had to press him. Does he believe China wants to conquer and rule Southeast Asia? Does he believe its plans resemble those of the Empire of Japan before it conquered the region and instituted its bloody so-called Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere?

“No country is so aggressive and assertive at the very beginning,” he says. “If a rising power gets a small victory, it becomes more confident that it can go farther. I’m a strategist, so I look at China in the context of history over hundreds of years. Rising countries create their spheres of influence. Germany did it. Japan did it. The former Soviet Union did it. Now China is doing it. It is following the classic rise of emerging powers in history.”


*T*he oil rig spat is unusual. Vietnam generally prefers to resolve such things quietly, but this time Hanoi was waving the bloody shirt, making as much noise as possible, and trying to make this as publicly painful for China as it could. Vietnam’s leaders are genuinely angry and frightened, not grandstanding or being theatrical.

They want American help, and not only because it would be convenient. Attitudes toward the United States have changed drastically since the 1970s. I knew that in advance before visiting this summer—it’s hardly a secret—but it still left quite an impression.

“I’m twenty-eight years old and don’t remember the war,” Huy Dang told me, “but I read a lot of history and have watched a lot of documentaries about it. It was a bad time, but that’s it, it’s over. If you were to ask ten people in Hanoi about it, eight of them would say it’s okay, it’s in the past.”

In fact, Vietnam is one of the most enthusiastically pro-American places I’ve ever been, and Ho Chi Minh City in the south (which the locals still call Saigon) is especially so.

My hotel manager beamed when he found out I was American. Pulling out a map of the city, he said, “Here is where Pete Peterson was shot down.” (In addition to being a POW, Peterson is a former Democratic congressman from Florida and the first US ambassador to Vietnam after the war.) “He was held in the Hanoi Hilton for seven years with John McCain. We love both of them so much. They’ve done so many good things for our country.”

The Vietnamese treat these former enemy soldiers and prisoners of war like rock stars, even heroes. They may be more loved in Vietnam than they are at home, especially Peterson. Most Americans aren’t familiar with him, but his is a household name in Hanoi.

We know what the Vietnamese think of Peterson now, but what about when he first arrived as ambassador in 1997? I asked him when I telephoned him in Melbourne, Australia, where he lives with his Vietnamese-born wife.

“They were gracious and open and made no attempt to make me feel unwelcome,” he says, “but it took them a while to realize my desire for reconciliation was sincere. I convinced them partly by traveling around the country and talking to people. The government found itself under lots of pressure from regular citizens to work with me because my travels and meetings got so much press coverage.”

He wouldn’t quite describe Vietnam as an American ally, but he said that it certainly wants to become one. “They want to be under an American security umbrella,” Peterson says, “and to be defended from China with an American trip wire, like South Korea.” But the anachronistic weapons embargo imposed in 1984 still hasn’t been lifted. Vietnam can’t buy all the equipment it needs, nor can it repair the equipment we left behind in the 1970s, which it is still using.

The embargo has been out of date for a while. The only time in recent history Vietnam used military force to attack another nation was when it invaded Cambodia in 1979 and demolished the genocidal Pol Pot regime. Vietnam’s actions were based on its own self-interest, but so what? The effect was the same either way. The most vicious regime in Southeast Asia’s history was expunged from the earth. And declaring war against the likes of Pol Pot hardly suggests a country will go to war against a friendly nation like Thailand. Vietnam certainly won’t attack the United States.


*C*hina is the only country Vietnam worries about, and the US should share its concerns.

Beijing’s claim to the entire South China Sea could pose a serious threat to maritime navigation. The Chinese are following Vladimir Lenin’s advice. “Probe with a bayonet. If you meet steel, stop. If you meet mush, then push.” So far Beijing has met only mush.

There’s nothing unusual about China’s desire to dominate the South China Sea. China is the natural hegemon of the region. Its dominance would be no stranger than America’s role as the honcho of the Caribbean, which likewise triggers anxiety in small 
nearby countries.

The difference is that China’s behavior off its coasts is less like America’s today than America’s when the US was still in its expansionist period, when talk of annexing Cuba sounded plausible to some ears and when Puerto Rico was actually annexed. But even then the US wasn’t an authoritarian one-party state, as Beijing is. Washington brought multi-party elections to Puerto Rico, including the right of Puerto Ricans to vote on their own status—statehood, status quo as a territory, or independence. The idea of Beijing allowing Tibetans or Uighurs to vote on their own status is laughable.

Theoretically, China could dominate the South China Sea in a benign way at some point in the future the way the US does the Caribbean, but China would first have to transform itself politically, and it would also have to push the US Navy out of the area.

The latter might happen before the former. “American naval dominance in the South China Sea is somewhat exaggerated,” Peterson says. “We left it unattended for more than a decade, which is part of what President Obama’s pivot to Asia is about. China wants to grab as much as it can get away with, and its view is that possession is nine-tenths of the law. So it’s putting in oil rigs and daring someone to do something about it.”

Our own strategic interest there is straightforward. More than half the world’s shipping traffic goes through a place where there could be a shooting war that could shut down the entire sea and deliver one hell of a shellacking to economies everywhere in the world. Our primary interest then, more than helping smaller nations resist China, is keeping the peace.

It might happen without us having to do much, if Vietnam were to feel that its ties to the US were stronger.

And there’s always the “Golden Arches Theory of Conflict Prevention.” Thomas Friedman described it in his book _The Lexus and the Olive Tree_. “No two countries,” he wrote, “that both had McDonald’s had fought a war against each other since each got its McDonald’s.” The theory is that countries that reach such a bourgeois state of development are less interested in waging wars than nations gripped by ideological lunacy. A nation with McDonald’s may very well go to war against warmongering creepjobs like Saddam Hussein, but against another bourgeois country? Not likely.

Friedman’s theory is perhaps too cute by half, but it has mostly held up over the years. It was nearly violated when Israel and Hezbollah fought in 2006. McDonald’s has franchises in both Israel and Lebanon. But the 2006 war was not fought between the sovereign states of Lebanon and Israel. It was fought mostly _in_ Lebanon, but not _against_ Lebanon, and Hezbollah, which detests and boycotts McDonald’s, started it. But the current war (can we call it a war yet?) between Russia and Ukraine seems to put the Golden Arches Theory to bed. Still, bourgeois economic integration generally makes armed conflict less likely, even if it isn’t fail-safe.

China and Vietnam might muddle through until they open up their political systems, like South Korea and Taiwan already have, and become more averse to war than they are now. In the meantime, however, both are richer and more powerful than they have ever been, and more aggressive as well. And, with Vietnam, that could be a boon to US policy.

Our relations with China are likely to be difficult and challenging for decades, but it’s long past time to snap up an alliance with Vietnam. It’s ours for the taking, just sitting there and waiting for us to just say yes.

_Michael J. Totten is a contributing editor at World Affairs and the author of five books, including Where the West Ends and The Road to Fatima Gate._

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ahojunk

This Michael Totten's article is extremely biased against China.

The oil rig is closer to Triton Island than Vietnam. Vietnam is illegally occupying the most islands/reefs in the SCS.

All the other claimants to Spratly Islands already have airstrips in except China and Brunei. They have been extending their reefs and the Americans didn't say a thing. Now that China is doing it, they are making a big fuss (although China is doing it at great speed).

China needs a base for patrol and search and rescue in the SCS. If a disaster happens in the SCS and China does nothing, the rest of the world will criticize.

Damn if China does and damn if China doesn't.

I don't think Vietnam is interested in providing any search, rescue or disaster relief services in the SCS.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cirr

Real estate development on Chiguadao（Johnson South Island），right in the middle of the SCS：

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ahojunk

The picture on 14 August only shows the foundation. 

Three and a half months later, China is putting up this massive building.

Very impressive and looks like a shopping mall or a huge administrative building.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Speeder 2

cirr said:


> Real estate development on Chiguadao（Johnson South Island），right in the middle of the SCS：
> 
> View attachment 160653
> 
> 
> View attachment 160654
> 
> 
> View attachment 160655
> 
> 
> View attachment 160656



I've never heard of so-called "Johnson South Island", but this must be the Duty Free section of SCS Cheguadao World Trade Centre Plaza? What a speed! You gotta open a new thread on this.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ahojunk

Speeder 2 said:


> I've never heard of so-called "Johnson South Island", but this must be the Duty Free section of SCS Cheguadao World Trade Centre Plaza? What a speed! You gotta open a new thread on this.



If this is SCS Chiguadao WTC Plaza with a duty free section, China must have in mind the "tourists" from the nearby Vietnamese and Philippines garrisons. ha ha ha

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Speeder 2

ahojunk said:


> If this is SCS Chiguadao WTC Plaza with a duty free section, China must have in mind the "tourists" from the nearby Vietnamese and Philippines garrisons. ha ha ha



before tourism, the next steps must be some shanghai-style neon lights deco and visa-controlled customs at the door i guess?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Globenim

cirr said:


> Real estate development on Chiguadao（Johnson South Island），right in the middle of the SCS：
> 
> View attachment 160653
> 
> 
> View attachment 160654
> 
> 
> View attachment 160655
> 
> 
> View attachment 160656



I know China has already reputation for building big and fast but that huge thing I bet no one expected so soon.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cirr

Speeder 2 said:


> I've never heard of so-called "Johnson South Island", but this must be the Duty Free section of SCS Cheguadao World Trade Centre Plaza? What a speed! You gotta open a new thread on this.



It is my sincere hope that，in the not-too-distant future，I can open a mobile app，book myself a plane ticket for Yongshudao，take the flight，arrive in high spirit，check into a 5-star hotel with a view of the SCS，dine on fine seafood，and roll a dice for keeps。

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Beast

A big quality military HQ with comfortable barrage for hundred of marines station there. Our CMA ship can station there and replenish faster so that they will go out fast to capture more illegal Pinoy fisher man intrude into our water catching turtle or exotic fish.



ahojunk said:


> This Michael Totten's article is extremely biased against China.
> 
> The oil rig is closer to Triton Island than Vietnam. Vietnam is illegally occupying the most islands/reefs in the SCS.
> 
> All the other claimants to Spratly Islands already have airstrips in except China and Brunei. They have been extending their reefs and the Americans didn't say a thing. Now that China is doing it, they are making a big fuss (although China is doing it at great speed).
> 
> China needs a base for patrol and search and rescue in the SCS. If a disaster happens in the SCS and China does nothing, the rest of the world will criticize.
> 
> Damn if China does and damn if China doesn't.
> 
> I don't think Vietnam is interested in providing any search, rescue or disaster relief services in the SCS.


The most funny thing is they brag about most Vietnamese do not feel much about grudges of US in vietnam war. I am sure many Vietnamese who lose their relatives in operation backliner will not forget losing their loved one. Hospital, school and housing are criminally targeted.

Those article is only a feel good propaganda for US mass.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cirr

Beast said:


> A big quality military HQ with comfortable barrage for hundred of marines station there. Our CMA ship can station there and replenish faster so that they will go out fast to capture more illegal Pinoy fisher man intrude into our water catching turtle or exotic fish.
> 
> 
> The most funny thing is they brag about most Vietnamese do not feel much about grudges of US in vietnam war. I am sure many Vietnamese who lose their relatives in operation backliner will not forget losing their loved one. Hospital, school and housing are criminally targeted.
> 
> Those article is only a feel good propaganda for US mass.



That's how slaves think of their overlords when the latter beat the crap out of the former for no reasons。

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Keel

ahojunk said:


> If this is SCS Chiguadao WTC Plaza with a duty free section, China must have in mind the "tourists" from the nearby Vietnamese and Philippines garrisons. ha ha ha



Good idea but I guess these poor soldiers dont have extra nickels to spend 
Target their fishermen. Exchange their boats/ships and catches for shopping / casino betting chips

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ahojunk

Globenim said:


> I know China has already reputation for building big and fast but that huge thing I bet no one expected so soon.



You are right. Me too, I didn't expect this. 

Before cirr post the pictures of Chigua Dao, I was expecting to see a few buildings of maybe 2 to 3 storeys but I was blown away by this massive 6 storey building and it looks like it is going to be taller.

Adjacent to this building is a much smaller white building. I think this is the original garrison building/platform.



Keel said:


> Good idea but I guess these poor soldiers dont have extra nickels to spend
> Target their fishermen. Exchange their boats/ships and catches for shopping / casino betting chips



Think about it. If I am one of those Vietnamese or Philippines soldiers, I will apply for Chinese asylum before I get too upset and depressed watching the expansion of the Chinese islands.

Certainly life on the Chinese islands are much better as the Chinese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying said its construction is aimed _"mainly to improve the living standards of the reef-stationed soldiers."_

To get to Chinese territory, some soldiers could even swim there. Their reefs are close enough.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Keel

ahojunk said:


> You are right. Me too, I didn't expect this.
> 
> Before cirr post the pictures of Chigua Dao, I was expecting to see a few buildings of maybe 2 to 3 storeys but I was blown away by this massive 6 storey building and it looks like it is going to be taller.
> 
> Adjacent to this building is a much smaller white building. I think this is the original garrison building/platform.



My idea is just an option in case the admin of these shoals-turning into-islands really want to open up business for tourism

The speed of the constructions is just amazing!
I wonder why they are not considering these for a change? 

China Erects 15 Story Hotel in Less Than 6 Days! (video) | Singularity HUB
China's 'amazing' construction of a 30-story building in 360 hours - The Week
How to build a skyscraper in two weeks | McKinsey & Company


----------



## terranMarine

Damn that's fast  , our construction workers are efficient, are they on a very tight schedule or what


----------



## ahojunk

terranMarine said:


> Damn that's fast  , our construction workers are efficient, are they on a very tight schedule or what



Yes, they are. The current year typhoon season is over. They are trying to beat next year's typhoon season starting in May 2015. 

On a more serious note, China is strengthening its position for its claims or at the negotiation table.


----------



## Keel

Our guys working in these offshore oil rigs can take a short break on these islands


----------



## ahojunk

Keel said:


> Our guys working in these offshore oil rigs can take a short break on these islands



Oh I see! Now it's beginning to make sense. The guys who work on the offshore rigs are usually loaded with money.

What better place to relax than in a casino with a five star hotel. That massive building could be it!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Keel

ahojunk said:


> Oh I see! Now it's beginning to make sense. The guys who work on the offshore rigs are usually loaded with money.
> 
> What better place to relax than in a casino with a five star hotel. That massive building could be it!



work hard play hard


----------



## EastSea

China can’t alter legitimate rights of Vietnam in East Sea

_VietNamNet Bridge – China cannot change the legal rights of Vietnam over the exclusive economic zone (EEZ), affirmed experts at a two-day conference themed “East Sea: Cooperation for Regional Security and Development” held from November 17-18 in the central city of Danang._







The two-day conference is the continuance of efforts to exchange opinions and seek experts’ ideas for the East Sea issue.

In the second working session on November 18, the scholars analyzed factors affecting the East Sea situation in recent times, namely the changed schemes of some countries on strategic interests of the concerned parties, the increasing nationalism of claimants, the impact of competition between major powers and the disagreement in explanation and application of international law in the East Sea, including the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS).

In regard to the recent East Sea situation and policies of the concerned parties, many speakers argued that the increase in the number and operations of paramilitary forces and non-law enforcement forces in the Sea East is one of the causes of tensions in the region. Notably, China’s large-scale expansion on the reefs in the Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelago is altering the status quo in the East Sea.

Dr. Hoang Viet, lecturer from the Ho Chi Minh City University of Law who is also a researcher on the East Sea said, "Many geographical entities and structures over the Truong Sa (Spratly) and Hoang Sa (Paracel) archipelagoes are just reefs but China said that the islands have been inhabited, and it has the rights in the EEZ and continental shelf. If China succeeds in improving the reefs, it would have submersible aircraft carriers that enable it to reach the goal of controlling the East Sea.

As Taiwanese and Japanese scholars have forecast, China is likely to declare an Air Defense Identification Zone (ADIZ) in the Spratly islands and the East Sea.”

Dr Nguyen Thi Lan Anh, deputy dean of the International Law Department under the Diplomatic Academy of Vietnam said islands can cover a full sea area while artificial islands only have safe waters within only maximum 500m.

According to Dr. James Charles Kraska from Stockton Center for the Study of International Law of the US Naval War College said although China has illegally occupied the Paracel islands, lodging an unjustifiable nine-dotted line claim, it can not change Vietnam’s legal rights over the EEZ.

The same day, the experts also debated the provisions of international law adjusting the regulations of territorial waters and airspace, claims in the East Sea, marine dispute resolution and measures to build confidence and prevent maritime conflicts.

*East Sea conference wraps up*

The sixth International Conference on East Sea with in-depth discussions seeking experts’ ideas for the East Sea issue concluded in the central city of Danang on November 18.

Themed “East Sea: Cooperation for Regional Security and Development,” the event saw nearly 40 speeches and garnered 80 opinions from academics and specialists from Vietnam, Southeast Asian countries, the US, China, Taiwan (China), the Republic of Korea, Australia, India, the UK, France, Italy and Belgium.

Participants raised a concern that the East Sea is becoming a strategic competitive space for world powers.

However, some held that the complicated situation in the East Sea would be a chance for ASEAN and its partners to boost their positive role in seeking solutions to the issue.

Many expressed their interest in Indonesian President J. Widodo’s initiative on a “maritime axis” that is expected to see Indonesia’s greater contribution to fostering cooperation at the sea.

Participants agreed that regional organisations, including the European Union, should share their experience on the prevention and management over territorial and maritime disputes in the region.

They also gave much space to clarify legal regulations applied to the 200-nautical-mile exclusive economic zone and the continental shelf as well as the rights of coastal states over the areas.

They underscored that all parties should refrain from conducting any unilateral actions that could change the status quo in the East Sea. They stressed the need to strictly abide by regional agreements, including the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the East Sea (DOC).

Participants also pointed to the need to encourage cooperation and speed up the building of a regional legal framework based on international law, which would help maintain peace, stability, maritime and aviation security, safety and freedom.

They proposed that a code of conduct should be built to ensure the implementation of international law in the East Sea, while specific recommendations should be made to clarify Article 5 of the DOC.

Common rules applied for all armed forces and law enforcement authorities at sea should also be specified, while a cooperation mechanism for non-traditional security issues should be set up, they suggested.

They also highlighted the importance of making the best use of information sharing channels, as well as promoting partnership in managing maritime natural resources and protecting and preserving the maritime environment.

During the two-day event, experts and academics also analysed factors affecting the East Sea issue and measures to build trust as well as preventive diplomacy.

Concluding the conference, Ambassador Dang Dinh Quy, President of the Vietnam Academy of Diplomacy proposed the participants continue researching on the issues to help all parties concerned clearly understand their legal obligations in the maintenance of the status quo in the East Sea.

_Source: VOV_

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cnleio

2014 December, China Fiery Cross Island

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ahojunk

That looks suspiciously like a runway.

It has a "link road" to the original garrison building.

Haha. Still no sign of a casino.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cnleio

ahojunk said:


> That looks suspiciously like a runway.
> 
> It has a "link road" to the original garrison building.
> 
> Haha. Still no sign of a casino.


Not finished yet untill to 2015.11, Runway first then bigger "Casino" coming.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ahojunk

cnleio said:


> Not finished yet, Runway first then bigger "Casino" coming.



You are right. 

Damn, I am too impatient. (I have been spoilt by how fast China was reclaiming at Chigua).

Rotfl.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

cnleio said:


> 2014 December, China Fiery Cross Island
> 
> View attachment 162097



This pic is not an accurate reflection of the current status of construction work on the Yongshudao Island。

07.12.2014

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cnleio

ahojunk said:


> You are right.
> 
> Damn, I am too impatient. (I have been spoilt by how fast China was reclaiming at Chigua).
> 
> Rotfl.


I think Chinese r building the “Diego Garcia” in SCS, first base at this Fiery Cross Island (Now the 1st biggest island in SCS, continue building) ... China doing a great project bigger than other naions in SCS.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ahojunk

cirr said:


> This pic is not an accurate reflection of the current status of construction work on the Yongshudao Island。
> 
> 07.12.2014
> 
> View attachment 162179



This picture is blurry, I cannot see much.


----------



## EastSea

Last update 17:50 | 06/11/2014
0
*China urged to stop illegal activities on Truong Sa*
_On October 6, a Vietnam Ministry of Foreign Affair representative presented a diplomatic note to the China Embassy in Hanoi, opposing China’s illegal activities on Chu Thap (Stone Cross) of Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelago._

In response to the wrongful act, Foreign Ministry spokesperson Le Hai Binh stated, *"Vietnam has sufficient legal and historical evidence to affirm its sovereignty over Hoang Sa (Paracel) and Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelagos.
China’s aforesaid act has seriously violated Vietnam's sovereignty over the Spratly Islands and international law, running counter to the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the East Sea (DOC) as well as the agreement on the basic principles guiding the settlement of sea-related issues between Vietnam and China, disrupting the status quo and complicating the situation, detrimental to regional peace and stability.”*

"Vietnam resolutely opposes the above unlawful act and asks China to respect the sovereignty of Vietnam, strictly implement the DOC, immediately put an end to the construction that have broken the status quo in Truong Sa islands, and prevent similar occurrences, " Binh emphasized.

_VOV/VNN_

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## BoQ77

_In a statement Thursday December 11th, the Vietnamese foreign ministry spokesman Le Hai Binh has asked the Permanent Court of Arbitration at The Hague to take Vietnam's legal interests and rights into consideration._

_- *What does this move by Vietnam mean? *_
*- Is Vietnam really following The Philippines' path by seeking international arbitration? 
- Does it means that there is a consensus in the Vietnam Politburo on the issue?*

ANSWER: Vietnam has filed a formal statement of interest with the Permanent Court of Arbitration (PCA). This statement of interest in the China-Philippines case before the Arbitral Tribunal. In its statement *Vietnam acknowledged that the PCA has jurisdiction over the Philippines' case.* *Vietnam asked that the PCA take due regard of its rights and interests*. *And Vietnam rejected China's nine-dashed line as having no legal basis.* *All three points stand in opposition to China's just released Position Paper which came out two days after Vietnam filed.*

By expressing its interest in the case Vietnam is not joining the Philippines in taking legal action against China. But Vietnam's statement of interest will be noted by the arbitrators of the China-Philippines case. *In other words although the case is a bilateral matter, the judgment of the arbitrators must take into account the interests of other parties likely to be affected by the outcome. It may be likely that by filling a statement of interest that the Arbitral Tribunal could invite Vietnam to make a presentation of its right and interests. In other words, Vietnam can make its legal case "through the back door".*

There are mixed reports about the legal action that Vietnam was planning to take. It lodged its statement of interest on December 5 (*coincidently the same day the U.S. State Department released its report, Limits in the Seas*). Rumours have been flying around the diplomatic community that Vietnam was prepared to take stronger legal action and advised its close friends accordingly. At the last minute, if these rumours are correct, Vietnam chose the minimalist option. China issued its Position Paper two days later, on December 7th.

Vietnam's action also take place on the eve of the important tenth plenum of the Vietnam Communist Party's Central Committee. Vietnam's legal actions will be aimed at mollifying its domestic critics. These critics may not be completely satisfied but will be heartened by this action. The Central Committee like wise will have to temper whatever urge its members might harbour about taking legal action against China. They will have to accept and go along with the government's decision.

*The timing of Vietnam move, coming on the day the State Department released its brief on the Limits In the Seas, and two days before the release of China's position paper*, could not have been more propitious. Theese events, when taken as a whole, appear to be raising the salience of international law as a means of managing South China Sea territorial disputes. China will not be happy because it is hell bent on getting the Arbitral Tribunal to reject the Philippines' case.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## BoQ77

> *Limits in the Seas*
> This series issued by the Office of Ocean and Polar Affairs, Bureau of Oceans and International Environmental and Scientific Affairs in the Department of State aims to examine coastal States’ maritime claims and/or boundaries and assess their consistency with international law. The studies represent the views of the United States Government only on the specific matters discussed therein and does not necessarily reflect an acceptance of the of the limits claimed.
> -12/05/14 No. 143 China's Maritime Claims in the South China Sea [1270 Kb]
> -09/16/14 No. 142 Philippines' Maritime Claims and Boundaries [492 Kb]


----------



## BoQ77

The dashed line in analysis in "Limits in the Seas" posted by US State Department in the same day of Vietnam statement of interests sent to PCA.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## BoQ77

*Vietnam Launches Legal Challenge Against China’s South China Sea Claims*
Vietnam lodges a submission at The Hague and rejects Chinese position paper on the South China Sea.





By Prashanth Parameswaran
December 12, 2014

Vietnam and China moved their saber-rattling over the South China Sea into the legal arena this week as Hanoi lodged a submission with an arbitral tribunal at The Hague and rejected a Chinese position paper. Beijing swiftly dismissed Vietnam’s challenge.

In a statement on Thursday, the Vietnamese foreign ministry rejected China’s December 7 position paper, which laid out Beijing’s legal objections to an arbitration case that the Philippines had filed against it.

“Vietnam’s established position is to resolutely object to China’s claims over Hoang Sa, Truong Sa islands and adjacent waters,” Vietnamese foreign ministry spokesman Le Hai Binh said, using the Vietnamese names for the Paracel and Spratly Islands.

Binh also suggested that Hanoi had sent a statement to the Permanent Court of Arbitration (PCA) at The Hague, which is currently examining the Philippines’ case against China over the South China Sea disputes.

According to the _South China Morning Post_, Vietnam’s statement to the PCA, submitted last Friday, made three main claims in opposition to China’s stand. First, it recognized the court’s jurisdiction over the case submitted by the Philippines, which Beijing does not. Second, it requested that the court give “due regard” to Vietnam’s own legal rights and interests in the Spratlys, Paracels, and in its exclusive economic zone and continental shelf while deliberating on the case. Third and lastly, it rejected China’s infamous nine-dash line – which lays claim to about 90 percent of the South China Sea – as being “without legal basis.”

Hanoi’s actions are part of a concerted effort to respond to China’s growing assertiveness in the South China Sea, which has continued in 2014. In May, a Chinese state-owned oil company dispatched a deep sea drilling rig off the coast of Vietnam in disputed waters south of the Paracel Islands, which led to deadly boat clashes and anti-Chinese violence and plunged diplomatic relations to an all-time low. In response, Vietnamese prime minister Nguyen Tan Dung had said that Hanoi was “considering various actions, including legal actions in accordance with international law.”

By lodging a statement with the court – as opposed to directly joining the Philippines in its case – Vietnam has found a way to make its views heard but not alienate Beijing, which has warned Hanoi against joining Manila’s legal challenge. Beyond the legal realm, Vietnam has also taken a number of other actions, including slowly moving towards closer ties with the United States – made easier by the partial lifting of a U.S. lethal weapons embargo – and making its first-ever port call to the Philippines last month.

Predictably, China dismissed Vietnam’s sovereignty claims in its foreign ministry statement, labeling them “illegal and invalid” and emphasizing that “China will never accept such a claim.”

“China urges Vietnam to earnestly respect our territorial sovereignty and maritime rights and resolve relevant disputes regarding Nansha with China on the basis of respecting historical facts and international law so as to jointly maintain peace and stability on the South China Sea,” Chinese foreign ministry spokesman Hong Lei said, using the Chinese name for the Spratly Islands.

The legal tussle between Beijing and Hanoi comes as the December 15 deadline nears for China to submit its defense in the arbitration case brought about by the Philippines. China is not expected to submit anything in response to the tribunal’s deadline, having already declared in its position paper that it would “neither accept nor participate in the arbitration.”

Two days before China released its position paper, the U.S. State Department published a study that questioned the validity of Beijing’s nine-dash line. China dismissed the study, claiming that it ignored basic facts and legal principles and was unhelpful in resolving the South China Sea issue.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## TheTruth

Wonder how UN will arbitrate between PH and Vietnam

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Bienvenido

*Philippines says Vietnam promotes peace in region by taking sea dispute with China to UN*

Monday, 15 December, 2014







_A new officially approved map of China includes the islands and maritime area that Beijing claims in the South China Sea. Photo: AP_

Vietnam has helped ensure peace in the South China Sea dispute with Beijing by following the Philippines in seeking UN arbitration, Manila said, despite the fact that Beijing has refused to take part.

Beijing claims almost the entire energy-rich South China Sea, but Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines, Vietnam and Taiwan also have claims. Only Brunei has not occupied and garrisoned territory in the potential flashpoint in the region.

Vietnam on Thursday submitted its position to a UN arbitration tribunal initiated by the Philippines over the festering dispute. China called on Vietnam to respect its sovereignty and has refused UN arbitration saying it has "indisputable" sovereignty over the Spratly Islands.

"The Vietnamese position is helpful in terms of promoting the rule of law and in finding peaceful and nonviolent solutions to the South China Sea claims based on international law…," the Philippine Foreign Ministry said.

"This promotes peace and stability in our region."

China, Vietnam and the Philippines are signatories to the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea, which grants the right to explore and exploit resources within 200 nautical miles of a state's shore. Both Hanoi and Manila say Beijing is extending beyond the limit.

In May, China placed its largest mobile oil rig close to Vietnam's coast in the Paracel Islands that prompted angry protests in Hanoi against Chinese business interests. China calls them the Xisha Islands, and Vietnam the Hoang Sa Islands.

At the same time, Beijing began reclamation in the Spratly Islands and appeared to be building airstrips in the area.

Beijing has also seized control of Scarborough Shoal near the Philippines' main island of Luzon and chased civilian ships delivering supplies to Philippine-held Second Thomas Shoal in the Spratlys. The Philippines and Vietnam appear to be ending decades of distrust.

Last year, the two sides held a first-ever navy-to-navy talks and last month, Hanoi displayed its two most powerful missile-guided stealth frigates in Manila during a port call.

The two states will hold the first strategic defence dialogue early next year.

"Vietnam's legal opinion puts political weight on the Philippine legal case," Professor Rommel Banlaoi, a security analyst, said on television.


Philippines says Vietnam promotes peace in region by taking sea dispute with China to UN | South China Morning Post

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Nan Yang

TheTruth said:


> Wonder how UN will arbitrate between PH and Vietnam



Vietnam always shows China claims but never ever show their own claims. The fact is because their claim is not much different from China's.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Viet

Nan Yang said:


> Vietnam always shows China claims but never ever show their own claims. The fact is because their claim is not much different from China's.


wrong. vietnam claim is much smaller than china. check again the map: china claim virtually reaches our and other nations beaches.

we have a strong basis for our claim:
- international recognised eez waters and intercontinental shelfs
- sovereignty taken over from champa kingdom (15 century)
- sovereinty exercised during the nguyen dynasty
- sovereinty taken over from the french

in the last 2,000 years, until recently china has never exercised control and administration the south china sea in part or on the whole. besides, we have successfully settled sea demarcations with malaysia and indonesia. while china not. we only have a small overlap with the philippines. china took our islands in paracels and spratlys by force. we will never accept that.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## biendong

opruh said:


> Vietnam is a joke.



Scarborough shoal belong to Philippine, is this joke ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Nan Yang

There are NO good players. Every country is just grabbing anything that sticks out of the water. 

Its free for all !!!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## biendong

Pinoy said:


> Think before you reply. opruh is another Fsjal in the making.
> 
> Just like most China's garbage products. FAKE!



Thanks for reminder, I'm newbie here.


----------



## Soryu

Nan Yang said:


> Vietnam always shows China claims but never ever show their own claims. The fact is because their claim is not much different from China's.



Look at those two maps and we know your words are no value ...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## conkhi

this move by my country is illegal, we should drop it

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## conkhi

amigo eastsea you know we have lost the islands and will lose more, take a sigar like me and chill


----------



## biendong

conkhi said:


> this move by my country is illegal, we should drop it



France ?


----------



## William Hung

Earlier this year, the Philippines offered VietNam to share and discuss the Filipino's legal case and analysis (which is still not made public to anyone else). 

A few days ago, VN sent a position note supporting the Philippines position that the tribunal do have jurisdiction over the dispute. 

These are two clear signs that both VN and the Philippines are not planning to fight each other in court and will negotiate their overlapping claims. If they were planning to fight each other in court in the future, they wouldn't have shared their legal case with each other.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Ruisheng

OrionHunter said:


> Oh really?  It looks nothing like it. *China can't teach lessons in 'peaceful behavior' to anyone seeing its 'unpeaceful behavior' towards nations such as :
> 
> Vietnam
> Taiwan
> Japan
> Indonesia
> Philippines
> India
> Australia
> USA
> Malaysia
> Brunei*
> 
> Practice what you preach!


Taiwan is not a nation.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

*CCG3306*、*CCG3307* and *CCG3308*：















_Credit 99% HSH_

Three 3950-ton beauties ready for water splashes in the SCS。

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## NiceGuy

Black Flag said:


> Earlier this year, the Philippines offered VietNam to share and discuss the Filipino's legal case and analysis (which is still not made public to anyone else).
> 
> A few days ago, VN sent a position note supporting the Philippines position that the tribunal do have jurisdiction over the dispute.
> 
> These are two clear signs that both VN and the Philippines are not planning to fight each other in court and will negotiate their overlapping claims. If they were planning to fight each other in court in the future, they wouldn't have shared their legal case with each other.


Those islands r not important to VN, we dont need to argue wt a friend like Phil in the court. We may share the isls wt all ASEAN friends, but not China

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Ruisheng

cirr said:


> *CCG3306*、*CCG3307* and *CCG3308*：
> 
> View attachment 176540
> 
> 
> View attachment 176541
> 
> 
> View attachment 176542
> 
> _Credit 99% HSH_
> 
> Three 3950-ton beauties ready for water splashes in the SCS。


Yeah tiny cute police vehicles, 100% designed for peace.


----------



## Cossack25A1

Pinoy said:


> Think before you reply. opruh is another Fsjal in the making.
> 
> Just like most China's garbage products. FAKE!



Sadly, there are some Filipinos who are pro-China, particularly the leftist groups here in the Philippines and possibly Tsinoys; Fsjal has revealed to be Tsinoy, thus I don't trust him much as much as I don't trust Bob Ong because I feel Tsinoys are 5th Columns. Opruh could be either be a Tsinoy or a Sinophile.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zero_wing

Cossack25A1 said:


> Sadly, there are some Filipinos who are pro-China, particularly the leftist groups here in the Philippines and possibly Tsinoys; Fsjal has revealed to be Tsinoy, thus I don't trust him much as much as I don't trust Bob Ong because I feel Tsinoys are 5th Columns. Opruh could be either be a Tsinoy or a Sinophile.



Leftist are traitors to the republic they always have the more veil than the most corrupt officials because they destrorying the country more than they could ever do next to drugs and illegal chinese nationals and taiwanese nationals conducting illegal activies here they should all be put to death saidly the corrup chruch under the CBCP will just use their unholy powers of illegal veto and lobby powers to counter any real progress like the RH law etc man the republic has a lot of enemies but the Tsinoys a majority of us are loyal to the Philippines so please dont level us with some traitorous $cum like comrade traitor (Fsjal whats his name) We filipinos should be a united front not a confideracy of kung trip lang sasama or grupo grupo lang a united we stand divided will fall. Remember our history sir isa dahilan kung bakit palagi tay0 tal0 or just surviving a war kasi tayo mga pilipino n@g away away so lets be different from our ninonos and be united as one country pati pa na man dito kabayan na man.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

A new 5000-ton plus CCG ship taking up shape at WC：







The sharp-eyed may also find a landing craft under construction alongside。

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## biendong

reclamation the status quo in Gac Ma reefs of Vietnam is illegal.





VPAN warship in patrol in Spratly





sea pirate is nearby.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cirr

*CCG3901*，the 2nd 12000-ton monster of a law enforcement vessel being prepared for launch：

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## yusheng

2901

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## BoQ77

*A senior Chinese leader will visit Vietnam this month, China's state media said on Monday, amid tension between the neighbors over competing claims in the South China Sea.*

*Yu Zhengsheng*, who heads a largely ceremonial advisory body to China's parliament but is *ranked fourth in the Communist Party leadership*, will be going at the invitation of Vietnam's Communist Party, the official Xinhua news agency said.

It provided no other details.

Anti-Chinese violence flared in Vietnam in May after a $1 billion deepwater rig owned by China's state-run CNOOC oil company was parked 240 km (150 miles) off the coast of Vietnam in the South China Sea.

Since then, though, China *has sought to make amends with Vietnam, including sending senior officials to Hanoi.*

*However, the two countries clashed again this month after Vietnam submitted its position to an international arbitration tribunal*, initiated by the Philippines, over the festering dispute that involves several countries.

Communist parties rule both countries and their trade has swelled to $50 billion annually, but* Vietnam has long been suspicious of its giant neighbor, especially over China's claims to almost the entire South China Sea.*

China claims about 90 percent of the South China Sea, displaying its reach on official maps with a so-called nine-dash line that stretches deep into the maritime heart of Southeast Asia.

Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan also have claims to parts of the potentially energy-rich waters that are crossed by key global shipping lanes


----------



## dichoi

VPAN is training to defend Islands of Vietnam..


----------



## yusheng




----------



## BoQ77

*South China Sea legal battle hots up*
Published on Dec 18, 2014 8:37 AM




_People viewing one of two of Vietnam's Russian-built missile-guided frigates docked at a bay in Manila on Nov 25, 2014. Vietnam's two most powerful warships were making their first port call to the Philippines but an official said it was not trying to challenge China's superior naval forces. _

By Richard Javad Heydarian, For The Straits Times

*The historic legal battle between the Philippines and China* over disputed territories in the South China Sea has *entered a new phase. There are renewed risks of escalation.* In recent days, *China, the United States and Vietnam have all expressed their position on the legal aspects of the maritime spats in the Western Pacific.*

*China* reiterated its outright opposition to any form of third party arbitration vis-a-vis sovereignty disputes in the South China Sea by releasing a position paper on Dec 7, which contains three major arguments.

First, Beijing contends that the special arbitral tribunal at The Hague, where the Philippines filed a memorial earlier this year, has no jurisdiction over the issue, since the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (Unclos) does not accord it the mandate to address what are essentially sovereignty-related issues. Although China is a signatory to Unclos, it has exercised its right (under Article 298) to absolve itself of any compulsory arbitration (under Article 287 and Annex VII) over territorial delimitation issues, among other things.

Second, China maintains that, based on supposed "historical rights", it exercises "inherent and indisputable" sovereignty over the disputed features, including those that fall well within the Philippines' 200 nautical miles Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ).

Third, Beijing asserts that the Philippines violated prior bilateral and multilateral agreements (that is, the 2002 Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea, known as the DoC) by initiating a compulsory arbitration procedure under Unclos.

Interestingly, the position paper was released a week before the Monday deadline for China to submit its formal position, or defence, to the arbitral tribunal.

*The Philippines*, in response, maintains that it is China that has violated the DoC by unilaterally altering the status quo through expansive construction activities, widening paramilitary patrols and coercive behaviour within the South-east Asian country's EEZ, specifically in the Scarborough Shoal in 2012 and, more recently, in the Second Thomas Shoal.

The Philippines also maintains that the arbitral tribunal has the mandate to interpret the parameters of China's right to opt out of compulsory arbitration procedures. For the Philippines, its legal case is perfectly consistent with the mandate of the arbitration body, since its memorial focuses on whether China's notorious "nine-dashed-line" claim is consistent with international law, and the determination of the nature of disputed features (under Article 121) - specifically, whether they can be appropriated or occupied and generate their own respective territorial waters.

While *the US does* not take a position on the sovereignty claims in the South China Sea, it has indirectly supported the Philippines by supporting the resolution of the disputes in accordance with international law as well as questioning the validity of China's claims.

The US State Department's position paper, released on Dec 5, has raised issues with the "nine-dashed-line" doctrine, arguing that China's expansive claims lack precision and consistency. After all, China has not unambiguously specified the exact coordinates of its territorial claims. It is not clear whether China claims much of the South China Sea, treating it as a virtual internal lake, or simply claims the land features in the area and their surrounding waters per se.

The US, similar to most independent legal experts, also maintains that China's claim to historical rights over the South China Sea waters is not consistent with international law. China has neither exercised continuous and uncontested sovereignty over the area, nor does the South China Sea - an artery of global trade, connecting the Pacific and Indian Oceans - constitute a bay or any form of near-coastal water that can be appropriated based on historical rights-related claims.

In short, China's claims far exceed - if not entirely contradict - modern international law, specifically Unclos. Although the US is not a signatory to Unclos, it has observed the international convention in its naval operations.

To the surprise of many observers, *Vietnam joined *the fray by submitting a position paper to the arbitral tribunal in The Hague last Friday, which contains three main points: It expressed its support for the Philippines' case; questioned the "nine-dashed-line" doctrine; and asked the arbitral tribunal to give due regard to Vietnam's rights and interests.

Vietnam's manoeuvre will most likely have no significant impact on the pending legal case between the Philippines and China, but it carries significant political implications. In recent months, Vietnam has been engaged in a sustained diplomatic effort to normalise relations with China and prevent another crisis in the disputed areas, especially in the light of the oil rig crisis in the South China Sea this year, which sparked huge protests in Vietnam and placed the two countries on the verge of armed confrontation.

Vietnam's bold threat to join the Philippines' legal efforts against China carries the risk of renewed tensions in the South China Sea and of undermining tenuous, but critical, diplomatic channels between Hanoi and Beijing. It seems, however, that Vietnam is hedging its bets by dangling the threat of joining a common legal front against China as a form of deterrence against further provocations in the future.

With both the Philippines and the US explicitly questioning China's expansive claims in recent months, Vietnam perhaps felt compelled to reiterate its position on the issue and underline its right to resort to existing international legal instruments to address potentially explosive territorial disputes.

Nonetheless, despite the unanimity of opinion and statements by Filipino, Vietnamese and American officials on the legal dimensions of China's claims in the South China Sea, it is far from clear whether Beijing will re-consider its policy in adjacent waters.

Ultimately, China could respond to growing international pressure by hardening its position. It can accelerate efforts at consolidating its claims on the ground, vehemently reject any unfavourable arbitration outcome as an affront to its national integrity, and impose sanctions on and/or diplomatically isolate the Philippines as a form of reprisal. After all, there are no existing compliance-enforcement mechanisms to compel China to act contrary to its position and interests.

stopinion@sph.com.sg

*The writer is a political science professor at De La Salle University in the Philippines.*

- See more at: South China Sea legal battle hots up - Opinion More Opinion Stories ST Editorial - The Straits Times

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## dichoi

BoQ77 said:


> *A senior Chinese leader will visit Vietnam this month, China's state media said on Monday, amid tension between the neighbors over competing claims in the South China Sea.*
> 
> *Yu Zhengsheng*, who heads a largely ceremonial advisory body to China's parliament but is *ranked fourth in the Communist Party leadership*, will be going at the invitation of Vietnam's Communist Party, the official Xinhua news agency said.
> 
> It provided no other details.
> 
> Anti-Chinese violence flared in Vietnam in May after a $1 billion deepwater rig owned by China's state-run CNOOC oil company was parked 240 km (150 miles) off the coast of Vietnam in the South China Sea.
> 
> Since then, though, China *has sought to make amends with Vietnam, including sending senior officials to Hanoi.*
> 
> *However, the two countries clashed again this month after Vietnam submitted its position to an international arbitration tribunal*, initiated by the Philippines, over the festering dispute that involves several countries.
> 
> Communist parties rule both countries and their trade has swelled to $50 billion annually, but* Vietnam has long been suspicious of its giant neighbor, especially over China's claims to almost the entire South China Sea.*
> 
> China claims about 90 percent of the South China Sea, displaying its reach on official maps with a so-called nine-dash line that stretches deep into the maritime heart of Southeast Asia.
> 
> Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan also have claims to parts of the potentially energy-rich waters that are crossed by key global shipping lanes



don't let he cheat us with empty words.


----------



## BoQ77

dichoi said:


> don't let he cheat us with empty words.



The visit of Chinese official proves that Vietnam newest move scored.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

Vietnam Coast guard ship 9002 rescued Chinese engine broken fish boat with 6 fishermen on board.


----------



## LittleFish

dichoi said:


> VPAN is training to defend Islands of Vietnam..


Ahhhh, we're scared to death, so for compensation how about we serve you with a feast? Come on man, just try to get on our island. I believe your servicemen will be satisfied by Chinese food. LOL
BTW, you mean you want to defense your island only with such efforts? Even NK millitants seem to be more competent. Maybe you can order a brand-new made-in-India AC and buy some LCA to form a AC-leading fleet, then you may be qualified to beat Thailand, though it may cost over 30 years.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

LittleFish said:


> Ahhhh, we're scared to death, so for compensation how about we serve you with a feast? Come on man, just try to get on our island. I believe your servicemen will be satisfied by Chinese food. LOL
> BTW, you mean you want to defense your island only with such efforts? Even NK millitants seem to be more competent. Maybe you can order a brand-new made-in-India AC and buy some LCA to form a AC-leading fleet, then you may be qualified to beat Thailand, though it may cost over 30 years.



He showed the activities of an exercise, you troll by challenging what it shouldn't be

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## LittleFish

BoQ77 said:


> He showed the activities of an exercise, you troll by challenging what it shouldn't be


So what it should be? Ford-class AC with F35s or even stronger? Wow,really frightening. US VN bhai-bhai.


----------



## BoQ77

Help Chinese fishermen, without care about the rude things Chinese armed fishboats and Haijian ships did to Vietnamese fishermen. 

( ignorance once more )


----------



## LittleFish

BoQ77 said:


> Help Chinese fishermen, without care about the rude things Chinese armed fishboats and Haijian ships did to Vietnamese fishermen.
> 
> ( ignorance once more )



Sorry, I only know that among Guangxi&Hainan&Guangdong's fishermen there is a saying "If confronted with Phillipine's Navy, you'd lost your boat, but if confronted with VN's Navy, you'd lost your life." There've been many times you bullied our fishermen and even kill them. One rescue? Sorry we also have rescued VN fishermen before.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Carlosa

Cossack25A1 said:


> Sadly, there are some Filipinos who are pro-China, particularly the leftist groups here in the Philippines and possibly Tsinoys; Fsjal has revealed to be Tsinoy, thus I don't trust him much as much as I don't trust Bob Ong because I feel Tsinoys are 5th Columns. Opruh could be either be a Tsinoy or a Sinophile.



Sorry for my ignorance, but what is the meaning of "Tsinoy" ?


----------



## dichoi

LittleFish said:


> Sorry, I only know that among Guangxi&Hainan&Guangdong's fishermen there is a saying "If confronted with Phillipine's Navy, you'd lost your boat, but if confronted with VN's Navy, you'd lost your life." There've been many times you bullied our fishermen and even kill them. One rescue? Sorry we also have rescued VN fishermen before.



lying is no good, kid.


----------



## BoQ77

LittleFish said:


> Sorry, I only know that among Guangxi&Hainan&Guangdong's fishermen there is a saying "If confronted with Phillipine's Navy, you'd lost your boat, but if confronted with VN's Navy, you'd lost your life." There've been many times you bullied our fishermen and even kill them. One rescue? Sorry we also have rescued VN fishermen before.



So China govt kept silence on those cases ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Cossack25A1

Carlosa said:


> Sorry for my ignorance, but what is the meaning of "Tsinoy" ?



Basically it combines the words "Chinese" (in Filipino China is spelled as "Tsina") and "Pinoy" and it is said to be a more politically correct term for them compared to "Intsik" which is a Filipino word that is based on the Hokkien word “in-chek” meaning "his uncle."

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

The 2nd（far side）5000-ton CCG ship（CCG 2502？CCG 35XX？？）launched：

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## TheTruth

Viet said:


> in the last 2,000 years.



In the last 2,000 years Vietnam has violently expanded her borders by nearly 200%. Please don't talk to us about "the last 2,000 years". And don't compare to China which expanded accidentally and defensively while following a moral code and rules of conduct.



NiceGuy said:


> Those islands r not important to VN, we dont need to argue wt a friend like Phil in the court. We may share the isls wt all ASEAN friends, but not China



Funny, you had several near-conflicts with the Philippines in the past decades - and they CERTAINLY have no intention of giving you even a single island near "their" coasts.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zerozen

https://defence.pk/attachments/china_south_china_sea_xaw801_47145315-jpg.175812/


Carlosa said:


> Sorry for my ignorance, but what is the meaning of "Tsinoy" ?


for short - Pilipino-Chinese people, mixed and matched






I see Arunachal Pradesh is gone.


----------



## Cossack25A1

Zerozen said:


> https://defence.pk/attachments/china_south_china_sea_xaw801_47145315-jpg.175812/
> 
> for short - Pilipino-Chinese people, mixed and matched
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I see Arunachal Pradesh is gone.



Funny they didn't include the whole Mongolia despite their expansionist rhetoric and policies.


----------



## asiafamily

Actually China has done the US a great favor. It's actions have opened the door for a bigger US presence in the region and the renewed the use of military bases in the Phillipines. Thank you China!

Now start actually attacking our allies in the region instead chest thumping from planting flags on deserted atols with no defenders. And you might find out how paper tiger the US is. Remember to Obama will most likely be out of office in about 7 months.[/QUOTE]

if you hate obama, you should dispoint, if you think usa can do everythings you wanna, then you must think and should recive a thing that usa dolar reduce value 90%, if your soldier got 10% salary can do everthing like before,i think you are strong like a god.


----------



## BoQ77

How funny, they changed the dashed line every year. It expresses that they have no firm base.

The estimate route become to the line.

1947 route ( mention the red circle ).


----------



## BoQ77

BoQ77 said:


> *A senior Chinese leader will visit Vietnam this month, China's state media said on Monday, amid tension between the neighbors over competing claims in the South China Sea.*
> 
> *Yu Zhengsheng*, who heads a largely ceremonial advisory body to China's parliament but is *ranked fourth in the Communist Party leadership*, will be going at the invitation of Vietnam's Communist Party, the official Xinhua news agency said.
> 
> It provided no other details.
> 
> Anti-Chinese violence flared in Vietnam in May after a $1 billion deepwater rig owned by China's state-run CNOOC oil company was parked 240 km (150 miles) off the coast of Vietnam in the South China Sea.
> 
> Since then, though, China *has sought to make amends with Vietnam, including sending senior officials to Hanoi.*
> 
> *However, the two countries clashed again this month after Vietnam submitted its position to an international arbitration tribunal*, initiated by the Philippines, over the festering dispute that involves several countries.
> 
> Communist parties rule both countries and their trade has swelled to $50 billion annually, but* Vietnam has long been suspicious of its giant neighbor, especially over China's claims to almost the entire South China Sea.*
> 
> China claims about 90 percent of the South China Sea, displaying its reach on official maps with a so-called nine-dash line that stretches deep into the maritime heart of Southeast Asia.
> 
> Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan also have claims to parts of the potentially energy-rich waters that are crossed by key global shipping lanes








* China vows to boost ties with Vietnam along correct path *
Xinhua, December 26, 2014

China's top political advisor Yu Zhengsheng vowed in Hanoi on Thursday to enhance high-level exchanges with Vietnam and promote bilateral ties along a correct path.








Top political advisor Yu Zhengsheng (L) meets with Le Hong Anh, a Politburo member and standing secretary of the Secretariat of the Communist Party of Vietnam (CPV) Central Committee, in Hanoi, Vietnam, Dec. 25, 2014. [Xinhua/Liu Jiansheng]

Yu, a member of the Standing Committee of the Political Bureau of the Communist Party of China (CPC) Central Committee and chairman of the National Committee of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference, made the remarks while meeting with Le Hong Anh, a Politburo member and standing secretary of the Secretariat of the Communist Party of Vietnam (CPV) Central Committee.

Yu arrived in Hanoi earlier on Thursday for a three-day official visit to Vietnam.He spoke positively of Le Hong Anh's latest visit to China in August as special envoy of the CPV Central Committee General Secretary Nguyen Phu Trong, adding the visit has contributed significantly to the improvement of China- Vietnam ties.

High-level exchanges between the two ruling parties had played a leading role in the development of bilateral relations, Yu said.

"My current visit to Vietnam, commissioned by the CPC Central Committee and General Secretary Xi Jinping, aims to enhance mutual trust, build consensus and boost progress of China-Vietnam relations in a correct path," he said.

China is willing to enhance communication with Vietnam, and deal with bilateral ties from a strategic view and long-term perspective, Yu added.

Le Hong Anh, for his part, recalled his visit to China which he said had achieved positive progress. He said both sides have the responsibility to inherit and carry forward their traditional friendship fostered by the older generations of their leaders, such as late Vietnamese President Ho Chi Minh and late Chairman Mao Zedong of the CPC Central Committee.

Vietnam hopes to further enhance high-level contacts with China, boost non-governmental exchanges and cooperation in various areas, he said.

He called on both sides to implement the consensus reached between their senior leaders regarding maritime issues, and properly settle their differences.

Le Hong Anh expected Yu's visit to further push forward bilateral all-round strategic cooperation partnership.

Yu is visiting Hanoi from Thursday to Saturday at the invitation of the CPV Central Committee and the Fatherland Front of Vietnam.

----------------------------------------

*China, Vietnam capable of managing differences*
(Xinhua) Updated: 2014-12-26 09:55
Comments Print Mail Large Medium Small





Yu Zhengsheng, chairman of the National Committee of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference. [Photo/Xinhua]

BEIJING -- After twists and turns, China-Vietnam ties will witness signs of improvement at the end of the year as China's top political advisor Yu Zhengsheng starts an official visit to the Southeast Asian country on Thursday.

Yu, chairman of the National Committee of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference, makes the visit, the first by a Chinese top official this year, at the invitation of the Communist Party of Vietnam Central Committee and the Fatherland Front of Vietnam.

Following contacts between officials of the two countries, Yu's visit is expected to further mend bilateral ties after recent tensions. It also demonstrates common aspirations of the two sides to put their ties back on track at an early date.

In mid-May, a series of riots targeted foreign companies in southern and central Vietnam, leaving five Chinese nationals dead, around 20 foreign factories burned down, and some 1,100 foreign companies affected.

The violence came amid tension between China and Vietnam over territorial disputes in the South China Sea.

Despite the cacophony, Beijing has insisted on further improving bilateral relations with Hanoi, managing differences in a constructive way, and resolving disputes through friendly negotiations.

As Chinese President Xi Jinping said when meeting with special Vietnamese envoy Le Hong Anh in August, "a neighbor cannot be moved away and it is in the common interests of both sides to be friendly to each other."

With a common border, similar culture and high economic complementarity, China and Vietnam have conducted mutually beneficial cooperation, which produced fruitful results and brought tangible benefits to both peoples.

According to statistics, China has been Vietnam's largest trade partner for nine years in a row, while Vietnam has become China's second largest trade partner in the Association of Southeast Asian Nations.

In this context, both sides should adhere to the right direction in handling their relationship, stick to good-neighborliness and friendship from a long-term and strategic perspective.

History is a mirror. China and Vietnam have successfully put the border clashes behind them and joined hands to embrace development opportunities and face common challenges in the past decades.

Thus, there is reason to believe that if the two nations, especially Vietnam, cast their eyes on improvement and development of relations instead of aggravating differences, benefits will not only be brought about to themselves but also to the whole region.


----------



## ahojunk

*Land reclamation increases Woody Island's size by 40%*

Aerial photos show the size of Woody (Yongxing) Island has increased by 40% since last year, with land reclamation, reports Shanghai's Guancha Syndicate.

Rocky island, located north of the island, is now merged with Woody island. The airstrip length has increased from 2.7 km to 3.0 km.


----------



## Zero_wing

China is feeling the presure


----------



## BoQ77

Zero_wing said:


> China is feeling the presure



Vietnam never lie themselves and betray PH friend.
When China thought Vietnam still under their pressure, Vietnam suddenly enter the legal case by backdoor, at the same time with a report by white House criticize the dashed line officially published.


----------



## TaiShang

*China, Vietnam agree to properly settle maritime disputes*
Source:Xinhua Published: 2014-12-27

Senior Chinese and Vietnamese officials agreed in Hanoi on Friday to properly settle the maritime disputes and control their differences through dialogue.

The consensus was reached in a meeting between China's top political advisor Yu Zhengsheng and Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung. 

"The maritime issue is highly complicated and sensitive, which requires negotiations to manage and control differences," said Yu, a member of the Standing Committee of the Political Bureau of the Communist Party of China (CPC) Central Committee and Chairman of the National Committee of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference (CPPCC).

"Magaphone diplomacy can only trigger volatility of public opinion, which should be avoided by both sides," said Yu, who is in Hanoi for a three-day official visit. 

He proposed both countries to enhance political trust and build consensus, strengthen guidance in public opinion, and promote substantial cooperation in various areas. 

"We are ready to beef up coordination with Vietnam, enhance personnel training and media swaps, to lay solid public opinion foundation for the development of China-Vietnam ties," Yu said. 

Nguyen Tan Dung, for his part, said Vietnam expects joint efforts with China to properly settle maritime disputes in a candid and friendly spirit, and especially promote substantial progress in their negotiations regarding the maritime demarcation of the bay mouth of Beibu Gulf. 

He agreed to treat China in an honest and candid manner, and further facilitate bilateral cooperation in such fields as economy, culture, education and youth exchanges.

Yu also met with General Secretary Nguyen Phu Trong of the Communist Party of Vietnam (CPV) and Vietnamese President Truong Tan Sang on Friday, respectively, and held talks with Nguyen Thien Nhan, chairman of Vietnam Fatherland Front (VFF) Central Committee.

Yu conveyed to Nguyen Phu Trong and Truong Tan Sang greetings from Chinese President and the CPC General Secretary Xi Jinping.

He said his visit to Vietnam aims to cement relations between the two ruling parties and countries, as well as implement the consensus reached between Xi and Truong Tan Sang during the latter's trip to Beijing last month for the APEC summit.

Yu urged for joint efforts from both countries to maintain and expand the momentum for improving bilateral ties, and promote even greater progress of China-Vietnam relations.

Next year marks the 65th anniversary of bilateral diplomatic ties. "History shows that to enhance China-Vietnam friendship and cooperation meets the fundamental interests of the two parties, countries and peoples, and also contributes to regional peace, stability and prosperity," Yu said.

He urged both sides to learn from historical experience, cherish their traditional friendship, jointly respond to challenges, in order to boost continuous progress of China-Vietnam ties along a correct path. 

China wishes the 12th CPV Congress, scheduled in early 2016, a full success, Yu said, adding his country hopes to see greater achievements of Vietnam's reform and development under the leadership of Nguyen Phu Trong.

Nguyen Phu Trong said Vietnam pays great attention to China's economic and social development, and considers it as Vietnam's opportunity.

The CPV admires the CPC's progress in party building and anti- corruption campaign, Nguyen Phu Trong said, calling on the two ruling parties to share experience in governance, and boost high- level visits and cooperation in various areas.

Truong Tan Sang told Yu that the Vietnam-China friendly cooperative ties will remain unchanged despite changes in international situation.

"Vietnam always give priority of its foreign policy to its all- round strategic cooperation partnership with China," Truong Tan Sang said, vowing joint efforts with China to cement political trust and substantial cooperation.

In their talks, Yu and Nguyen Thien Nhan agreed to boost closer cooperation between the CPPCC and the VFF, and earnestly fulfill the MoU regarding their cooperation from 2014-2019.

Yu is visiting Hanoi from Thursday to Saturday at the invitation of the CPV Central Committee and the Fatherland Front of Vietnam.

***

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

Does China think that legal case is not properly direction?
Remove your artificial islands first.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TaiShang

BoQ77 said:


> Does China think that legal case is not properly direction?
> Remove your artificial islands first.



Senior Chinese and Vietnamese officials agreed in Hanoi on Friday to properly settle the maritime disputes and control their differences through *dialogue*.


----------



## BoQ77

TaiShang said:


> Senior Chinese and Vietnamese officials agreed in Hanoi on Friday to properly settle the maritime disputes and control their differences through *dialogue*.



Not all.
It applies to the water beyond the Tonkin Gulf mouth as mentioned before.


----------



## BoQ77

TaiShang said:


> Senior Chinese and Vietnamese officials agreed in Hanoi on Friday to properly settle the maritime disputes and control their differences through *dialogue*.



This is your style of dialogue

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

*CCG 2301* equipped with full-electric propulsion launched at WC：






A new member in China's ever-expanding White Fleet。

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zero_wing

TaiShang said:


> Senior Chinese and Vietnamese officials agreed in Hanoi on Friday to properly settle the maritime disputes and control their differences through *dialogue*.



Its all talk no point really china is just cleaning its image


----------



## EastSea

cirr said:


> *CCG 2301* equipped with full-electric propulsion launched at WC：
> 
> View attachment 179320
> 
> 
> A new member in China's ever-expanding White Fleet。



interesting pic, this ship is going down.


----------



## yusheng

100ton， 50kn

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cirr

yusheng said:


> 100ton， 50kn
> View attachment 179877
> View attachment 179878
> View attachment 179879
> View attachment 179880



Superfast speedboat made of fibre glass。

Yongshudao 29.12.2014 







EastSea said:


> interesting pic, this ship is going down.



*CCG 1301* commissioned(note the 30mm automatic gun) 





*CCG 2306* commissioned:





Three other 1500-ton CCG vessels commissioned.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ahojunk

cirr said:


> Yongshudao 29.12.2014



Pic is not so clear, but wow!

Looks the reclaimed area has grown by leaps & bounds.

The harbor is clearly defined and looks like there is a water reservoir in the centre. 
.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## TaiShang

ahojunk said:


> Pic is not so clear, but wow!
> 
> Looks the reclaimed area has grown by leaps & bounds.
> 
> The harbor is clearly defined and looks like there is a water reservoir in the centre.
> .



It is organic growth, as Gramsci calls.


----------



## EastSea

Vietnamese people don't forget our soldiers who were fallen ỉn Bãi đá Gạc Ma (South Johnson reefs), chinese PLA attacked and stolen in 1988.

Proposal Memory architect for our heros.






...


----------



## ahojunk

Woody Island increased its size by 40%

Aerial photos show the size of Woody (Yongxing) Island has increased by 40% since last year, through land reclamation.

Rocky island, located north of the island, is now merged with Woody island. The airstrip length has increased from 2.7 km to 3.0 km.
.


----------



## LittleFish

EastSea said:


> Vietnamese people don't forget our soldiers who were fallen ỉn Bãi đá Gạc Ma (South Johnson reefs), chinese PLA attacked and stolen in 1988.
> 
> Proposal Memory architect for our heros.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Something worth your memorizing will happen constantly in the future.
We're waiting for you revenge.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cirr

EastSea said:


> interesting pic, this ship is going down.



Better？You guys are sailing into a strong headwind。


----------



## EastSea

LittleFish said:


> Something worth your memorizing will happen constantly in the future.
> We're waiting for you revenge.
> View attachment 180240
> View attachment 180241



This is true face of China's aggressors in South Johnson reets of Vietnam. Chinese attacked on Vietnamese and stolen reefs of Vietnam.




.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## William Hung

cirr said:


> Better？You guys are sailing into a strong headwind。
> 
> View attachment 180251



LOL at CCP fanboys cheering for this junk. It is just a waste of tax money when the CCP has already given up the 9-dash lines when they ratified UNCLOS back in 1995.

When the Arbitral Tribunal declares that the 9-dash line has no merits under UNCLOS, you can give up your dream of taking all the water within the 9-dash lines.  Good luck taking more reefs when the tribunal declares them belonging to other countries EEZ under UNCLOS law.

So at best, China can only possess 7 reefs while the other parties possess over 30. 

LOL at the 50cents cheering on the CCP when they have already signed off the 9-dash lines back in 1995.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## LittleFish

EastSea said:


> This is true face of China's aggressors in South Johnson reets of Vietnam. Chinese attacked on Vietnamese and stolen reefs of Vietnam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


We're just taking our land back. You take us as aggressors while we take you as shameless thieves. We've been feed up with VN and we won't tolerate it more. What we are in you eyes is not important for us and as well what you are in our eyes is nothing valuable for you. Just shout it out as your wish if it can make you feel better.



Black Flag said:


> LOL at CCP fanboys cheering for this junk. It is just a waste of tax money when the CCP has already given up the 9-dash lines when they ratified UNCLOS back in 1995.
> 
> When the Arbitral Tribunal declares that the 9-dash line has no merits under UNCLOS, you can give up your dream of taking all the water within the 9-dash lines.  Good luck taking more reefs when the tribunal declares them belonging to other countries EEZ under UNCLOS law.
> 
> So at best, China can only possess 7 reefs while the other parties possess over 30.
> 
> LOL at the 50cents cheering on the CCP when they have already signed off the 9-dash lines back in 1995.


Dating back to early 1970s we were even not in control of Xisha(paracel islands), let alone Nansha(spratly islands) for our navy was weak then, but even with the weak navy we still managed to slap the South VN's navy, let alone in 1988.

We have been taking actions to take our lands back. If you compare the current situation with former situation then you can make it clear. Vietnam and Phillipines are just playing with fire, let's just wait&see what the SCS map will be after 10 years, and I believe those VN losers will shout more miserably. We'll be glad to hear them calling us as "AGGRESSORS".

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## EastSea

LittleFish said:


> We're just taking our land back. You take us as aggressors while we take you as shameless thieves. We've been feed up with VN and we won't tolerate it more. What we are in you eyes is not important for us and as well what you are in our eyes is nothing valuable for you. Just shout it out as your wish if it can make you feel better.
> 
> 
> Dating back to early 1970s we were even not in control of Xisha(paracel islands), let alone Nansha(spratly islands) for our navy was weak then, but even with the weak navy we still managed to slap the South VN's navy, let alone in 1988.
> 
> We have been taking actions to take our lands back. If you compare the current situation with former situation then you can make it clear. Vietnam and Phillipines are just playing with fire, let's just wait&see what the SCS map will be after 10 years, and I believe those VN losers will shout more miserably. We'll be glad to hear them calling us as "AGGRESSORS".



paracels and spratly islands belong to Vietnam from long time ago. Chinese are aggressors, you admited it as shamelessly. 

Chinese aggressors get lost from Island of Vietnam.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ahojunk

*Maritime observation network*

China will set up an offshore observation network including satellite and radar stations to strengthen the country’s maritime power, protect maritime assets and realize the resource potential in its marine areas.

This network will cover coastal waters and high seas. Undersea observation and tsunami warning stations will also be built.

China's State Oceanic Administration called this network “fundamental” to protecting China’s maritime interests. It is to be completed by 2020. No cost was mentioned.


----------



## ahojunk

*New platform workboat to serve for South China Sea drilling*
Xinhua Jan 09,2015

WUHAN, Jan. 9 (Xinhua) -- China's largest offshore platform workboat was delivered on Thursday.

Wuchuan Shipbuilding Heavy Industry Co. Ltd. produced the vessel, which has a gross tonnage of *5,300 tonnes*, for Shanghai Salvage Co. at a cost of nearly *500 million yuan (83 million U.S. dollars)*.

The workboat, which measures* 89.2 meters in length and 22 meters in molded breadth*, has a *drag force of 296 tonnes*, which makes it able to tow floating drilling platforms that weigh over several thousand tonnes.

Christened as HUAHU (or China Tiger), the workboat will serve offshore tugging and freight transportation services and *assist offshore oilfield drilling operations in the South China Sea*.

Yang Zhigang, board chairman of Wuchuan shipbuilding, said HUAHU boasts an advanced remote-control underwater robot, which can submerge to depths of 3,000 meters, and it can operate in high winds and typhoons.

The company's independently-developed workboat has broken up the market monopoly held by European shipbuilders, said Yang, adding that the company had received *10 overseas orders for the vessel*.


----------



## ahojunk

*China, US holding joint drill in South China*
Updated: 2015-01-13 12:02
By Chen Weihua in Washington (China Daily USA)

*China and the United States started a joint drill on Monday on humanitarian assistance and disaster relief (HA/DR) to further improve military-to-military ties*, long regarded as the least developed part of the overall bilateral relationship. 

The drill between the two militaries and a symposium will be held from *Jan 12-19 in Guangzhou of Guangdong province, and Haikou of Hainan province*, according to China's Ministry of National Defense.

About *150 engineering and medical service personnel from the two nations will participate* in the drill and talk, the ministry announced on Sunday.

Dave Eastburn, spokesman for the US Pacific Command, told China Daily on Monday that 30 US Army soldiers, four Marines, and four Coastguardsmen are joining 50 soldiers from China in a Disaster Management Exchange (DME). The 2015 DME, hosted by China's People's Liberation Army, includes three parts of an expert academic discussion, the establishment of a HA/DR coordination center and a practical field exchange.

"*This long-established exchange underscores the commitment of both the US and the PRC to a comprehensive and strong military-to-military relationship in order to address security cooperation and HA/DR challenges across the region*," Eastburn said.

While a joint military drill is nothing new, the fact that this drill is held in two cities facing the South China Sea has been seen as a move to help ease the tension over maritime territorial disputes, in particular between China and the Philippines and Vietnam.

On Monday, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong Lei rebuffed a Philippine accusation that China is building facilities in what the Philippines regarded as "disputed" Nansha Islands in South China Sea. "China asserts indisputable sovereignty over the Nansha Islands and the affiliate waters. China's action on the Nansha Islands is entirely within China's sovereignty," Hong told a daily briefing in Beijing.

The US is concerned that it could be drawn into unintended military conflicts between China and the Philippines, its treaty ally.

The South China Sea has been an area of tension between China and the US because China has long opposed the frequent close-in US military surveillance along the Chinese coast there.

In April 2000, a US EP-3 spy plane clashed with a PLA fighter jet near Hainan Island, causing the death of Chinese pilot and the detention of 24 US crew after making an emergency landing in Hainan.

Last August, a US Navy P-8 surveillance plane and a Chinese J-11 fighter got close near Hainan Island, and in December 2013, the US Navy guided missile cruiser Cowpens and a Chinese fleet exercising in the South China Sea avoided a near collision.

Douglas Paal, vice-president for studies at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, said it is helpful for the two militaries to meet in the South China Sea area, so forces can humanize their views of each other.

But he pointed out that it is more likely the drill is occurring there because the weather is reliably compliant compared to points further north.

"*These exercises are all about instilling a degree of trust*. For the US side, moreover, HA/DR is acceptable to Congress, when other forms of exercise might imply too much trust," Paal said. "At this stage of the US-China military rapprochement, it seems about right and welcome."

"*It is welcome that the US and China are pursuing more military exercise. Perhaps China's agreement to conduct this drill in the South China Sea signals that Beijing sees the US as having a legitimate role to play in those waters. If so, it would be a positive message*," said Bonnie Glaser, senior adviser for Asia at the Center for Strategic and International Studies.

The joint drill came two months after President Xi Jinping and President Barack Obama concluded more than 20 agreements in Beijing from climate change to military confidence building, injecting renewed optimism in a relationship that has been marred by disputes in cyber security and tensions in South and East China seas.

On the military front, the two leaders signed a memorandum of understanding (MOU) on rules of behavior for safety of air and maritime encounters, and an MOU on notification of military activities and confidence building measures mechanism.

David Shambaugh, professor of political science and international affairs at George Washington University, said that 2013-2014 witnessed the broadest and deepest set of "mil-mil" exchanges in 25 years.

"This will require, on the American side, revision or retraction of the 2000 Defense Authorization Act - which places a range of restrictions on what the Pentagon can do and not do in its exchanges with the People's Liberation Army," he wrote on the China-US Focus website. "*The US and Chinese militaries are at the heart of strategic interactions between the two nations, and all efforts must thus be made to deepen the interactions and communications between the two military establishments*."

_chenweihua@chinadailyusa.com _


----------



## Keel

The metamorphosis of:

中国 永暑岛Yongshu Island, China

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## dichoi

_Vietnam’s authorised agencies are tasked with firmly safeguarding the country’s sovereignty, sovereign rights, and jurisdiction in the East Sea, Foreign Ministry Deputy Spokesperson Pham Thu Hang told reporters at a regular press conference in Hanoi on January 8._

She was responding to the reporters’ question regarding China’s drilling rig Haiyang Shiyou-981’s movement in international waters into the East Sea.

Hang said as a party to the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (1982 UNCLOS), Vietnam has always fully implemented all of its rights and obligations in line with international law, contributing to peace, stability, security, freedom and safety of navigation in the East Sea.

The country pursues the consistent policy of solving East Sea issues by peaceful measures on the basis of internationally-recognised principles, especially the 1982 UNCLOS and the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in East Sea (DOC).

She added Vietnam determinedly opposes acts that violate its sovereignty, sovereign right and jurisdiction in the waters.

China’s rig Haiyang Shiyou-981 was illegally positioned in Vietnam’s continental shelf and exclusive economic zone in early May, 2014 and then move out of Vietnam’s waters on July 16, 2014.

_VNA_


----------



## cirr

5000-ton plus *CCG 1501* launched at WCS on 16.01.2015






Also launched a while back at the same shipyard was *CCG 3501* of the same class。

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

*CCG 2302*、*2303*、*2304*、*3301*、*3305 etc* 





















all being outfitted at at GSI

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## biendong

*Swiss watch manufacturer offers special version of Vietnam’s Hoang Sa-Truong Sa*
_VietNamNet Bridge - Candino (Switzerland) has produced 1,888 special-edition watches (388 units for women, 1,500 for men) with the message "Hoang Sa (Paracel Islands) & Truong Sa (Spratly Islands) belong to Vietnam"._

This is the idea of Bui Tan Minh, a 35-year-old Vietnamese businessman.

Minh is director of the Hai Minh import export company, which distributes luxury watches in Vietnam.

Minh said it took a lot of time to convince the Swiss partner to launch this special edition.

The special edition watches arrived in Vietnam in January 2015, two years since the idea flashed.

Minh explained: "We asked the Swiss partner to manufacture 1,888 watches because 1888 was the year the Nguyen Dynasty woodblocks were completed. They have been recognized by UNESCO as a world heritage documentary and they are also the priceless heritage of the people of Vietnam. This official history faithfully recorded the activities of the Nguyen Dynasty on Hoang Sa and Truong Sa archipelagos (Paracel and Spratly Islands). It is important evidence for Vietnam’s indisputable sovereignty over Hoang Sa and Truong Sa."

Previously, Hai Minh cooperated with Candino to produce 1,000 special-edition watches for the 1,000th anniversary of Thang Long-Hanoi and the 40th anniversary of diplomatic relations between Vietnam and Switzerland (2011).

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ahojunk

Airstrip on Fiery Cross Reef set for completion by end of year｜Politics｜News｜WantChinaTimes.com
.
*Airstrip on Fiery Cross Reef set for completion by end of year*
2015-01-14 11:48 (GMT+8)






_Fiery Cross Reef seen from a Chinese scientific research vessel. Land reclamation has made the reef the largest island in the Spratlys. (File photo/CNS)_

Beijing may complete construction of its second airstrip on the South China Sea by the end of this year, which would greatly enhance its ability to transport goods to and conduct patrols in the disputed maritime region, reports the nationalistic tabloid Global Times, citing Tokyo-based magazine the Diplomat.

The runway, said to be completed by the end of this year, is being built on reclaimed land on Fiery Cross Reef in the Spratlys, according to Gregorio Pio Catapang, chief of staff of the Armed Forces of the Philippines, which also claims the archipelago.

Satellite images taken in November last year show the reclamation project, which began in August, has created an area of land sufficient for a 3km-long runway. It will be the second airstrip China possesses in the South China Sea after the runway on Woody Island in the Paracels, the seat of the city of Sansha which was set up to assert Beijing's claim to the Paracels, Spratlys and Macclesfield Bank.

Global Times said the second runway will enhance China's status in the South China Sea and alter the status quo to a direction best suited to the country's interests. Beijing has also been carrying out land reclamation projects on Cuarteron Reef, Gaven Reef and Collins Reef, all in the Spratlys.

The move could also be considered China's first step in establishing an Air Defense Identification Zone in the South China Sea, Global Times said, following the controversial East China Sea Adiz declared in 2013.
.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## yusheng



Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## cirr

*CCG 1501* launch video

武船国内首创 5000吨级巨轮横移下水—在线播放—优酷网，视频高清在线观看

the crab way

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## yusheng

"Hope 7" platform main hull 60 meters in diameter, main deck 66 meters, 27 meters high , operating deep 14 meters , deck area of 2200 square meters, has a DP3 dynamic positioning system, 6 sets of 5535 kilowatts full rotating propeller, 9 point position mooring system, the living area has 98 single rooms, 196 double room, can accommodate 490 people stay at the same time, the platform design service life of 20 years.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## ahojunk

Pictures of Yongshu (Fiery Cross) Island taken on 12 Dec 2014, obtained by Rappler.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cirr

Yongshudao（Fiery Cross Island）22.01.2015

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cirr

*CCG 3901 on the “launch pad” *

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## cirr

3500m3/h “*Tianbin 6*” and 4000m3/h “*Tiankai*” cutter-suction dredgers start working on the Zhubijiao（Subi Reef）and Meijijiao（Mischief Reel），respectively。





Tianbin 6 dredger






Bye Subi and Mischief Reefs，hello Subi and Mischief Islands。

“Rainbowfish”，a new generation of manned submersible capable of diving 11000 metres below the sea surface 






中国将总装新型万米潜水器 技术超蛟龙号一代|深潜器|蛟龙|中国_新浪军事

to begin trial operations in the SCS in the 2nd half of 2015.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## biendong

*East Sea: When the 'fox' deliberately sticks out its legs
*
_VietNamNet Bridge – It is possible that the accelerated rehabilitation and construction activities on the reef Gac Ma (Johnson) and Chu Thap (Fiery Cross) are part of China's strategic intentions of giving the international community with a fait accompli before the International Court of Justice makes a judgment.

Recently, the South China Morning Post (SCMP - Hong Kong) newspaper quoted Chinese experts as saying that China could turn the Fiery Cross Reef into the largest artificial island in the Truong Sa Archipelago (Spratly Islands) of Vietnam.
This reef currently has an area of approximately 1 km2 and the land reclamation here can still be ongoing. The process of expansion is occurring faster than expected and it is likely that this reef will surpass Ba Binh (Itu Aba), the largest island in the Spratly Islands.
Overall, this is just the next step in the artificial island plot which some experts have predicted that China will continue to use in the future. So what is behind this plot?

*"Status Quo" Chinese style*
The construction of an airport on the Johnson Reef has caused fierce criticism and condemnation from many ASEAN countries and the world. The pictures provided by the Philippines show that this airport has two runways and two long berths cross through the reef. China itself did not refuse to certify as before. They have openly challenged countries in the region and the world that "It is the right of China!"
Compared to the construction of an airport on the island of Phu Lam (Woody Island), the airport on Johnson Reef was built in an incredibly speedy manner. The photos provided by the Philippines show that China mobilized six giant dredgers which operated day and night like a great construction site on the waters of Vietnam. It was similar on the Fiery Cross Reef. When the entire world knew its activities on the Johnson Reef, China announced its construction of an airport on the Fiery Cross Reef.
According to Taiwan's Kanwa Newspaper, China not only built airports on Johnson and Fiery Cross reefs but also urgently renovated six reefs in the Spratly Islands which they used to rob from Vietnam and turn into artificial islands. Its project to "renovate and build scale islands" in the disputed areas is a strategic measure to monopolise the South China Sea (Bien Dong Sea, East Sea), through the realization of the "U-shaped line".
Dr. Nguyen Chu Hoi, former Deputy Director of the General Department of Sea and Island Affairs, said: "The change of the status quo in the East Sea is to help strengthen China’s claims of sovereignty, creating a strategic advantage over the East Sea."
Obviously, these actions are essentially an invasion, in contrast with the statement about peace and no aggression and expansionism made by China's leaders.
This is not the first time China has used a gradually invasive measure. The key solution to handle the tension on the East Sea given by the United Nations is maintaining the "status quo" has been used by China in its own style.
On the one hand China intentionally made provocative acts, changed and then applied the "status quo" as it did with Hoang Sa Archipelago (Paracel Islands) of Vietnam in 1974 and has kept the “status quo” by occupying the islands until now, and attacked and robbed the Johnson Reef and others of Vietnam in 1988, and has “held” them, turning the territorial waters of other countries into 'disputed territory' with China.
From the early 20th century, when China began to really "eye" the East Sea, the regular tricks of China are proactively provocative acts, illegally occupying and trying to encroach and expand. China’s "U-shaped line" claim takes in Indonesia’s territorial waters. The military measures to break through the status quo will pave the way for subsequent civil remedies. In particular, the civil remedies are used in various ways, with unpredictable evolution.

In 2012, the Philippines took drastic action by lodging a complaint against China with the International Court of Justice after China occupied the Scarborough Shoals (China calls it Huangyan). The Philippines also accused China of occupying its islands and conducting construction activities to turn reefs into artificial islands.
China previously made a solemn commitment to ASEAN countries and the world of "keeping peace and stability in the East Sea," but after the Scarborough Shoals event, China continued to occupy James shoals, which is claimed by Malaysia, in 2013.
China does not recognize the role of the International Court of Justice in handling the petition of the Philippines, but in fact China is still interested in it. Along with a frantic diplomatic campaign to split the ASEAN countries, China is aggressively presenting the international community with a fait accompli before the International Court of Justice issues a verdict.
It is likely that the accelerated rehabilitation and construction on the reefs of Johnson, Fiery Cross and London is in China’s strategic intentions. The Taiwanese press as described in details the survey trip of Chinese generals down to the Spratly Islands and made many statements as: "China will declare jurisdiction over the reefs of Johnson and Fiery Cross very soon."
According to Colonel Nguyen Don Hoa, former vice president of engineering of the Navy, China has been building airports on Woody Island (in the Paracel Islands of Vietnam) and Johnson Reef (of the Spratlys Islands of Vietnam) that they have occupied by force since 1974, and in 1988 they were involved in furtive tricks in terms of geopolitical and political aspects, rather than military. The military airports built by China on Woody Island and Johnson Reef are used only by helicopters. Fighter aircraft cannot make a landing due to their limited length.
Moreover, military power at sea does not depend on "unsinkable aircraft carriers" as the Chinese press stated but on warplanes and warships. During its deployment of the 981 oil rig in Vietnam’s waters, Chinese military aircraft also took off from the airport on the island of Hainan, not from the Woody Island, which is closer.
Col. Don Hoa compared China's tricks like "a fox that wants to enter the house of a rabbit to eat the rabbit and it enters the house by sticking out each leg one by one. When all the legs are in, the fox will jump on it to swallow the rabbit. China is step by step doing it in that way!"
According to Dr. Nguyen Chu Hoi, after consolidating its bases in Spratly Islands, China will ask for national jurisdiction in the exclusive economic zones to control all commercial activities through the East Coast. This is a sinister plot by China to strengthen forces and then control the entire international maritime routes.
*Duy Chien
*_


----------



## AgentOrange

Vietnam depends on a Swiss watchmaker for support in the South China Sea. Meanwhile, China has to make do with launching 3 ships, totaling *32,000 tons, in a single day*. To put it in perspective, the combined total tonnage of *Vietnam's entire surface fleet is around 37,000 tons.* 

*China Launches Three Warships In One Day, Setting A New Record*
For comparison, the U.S. Navy commissioned only four warships in all of 2014.

By Jeffrey Lin and P.W. Singer Posted January 23, 2015
  *27*




Hudong-Zhonghua Shipyard

Flickr

Hudong-Zhonghua Shipyard, a subsidiary of the China State Shipping Corporation, builds both advanced warships, as well as high tech commerce vessels like Liquified Natural Gas (LNG) carriers.

Not since World War II has a single shipyard launched multiple large warships in a single day. But Hudong-Zhonghua Shipyard in Shanghai, one of China's best naval and civilian shipyards, just did that. On January 22, 2015, it showed off its prowess in military mass production by simultaneously launching a Type 071 Landing Platform Dock (LPD) amphibious warship, a Type 054A frigate, and a Type 815G Electronic Intelligence (ELINT) ship. For comparison, the U.S. Navy commissioned only four warships (including a submarine) in all of 2014.





4th Type 071 LPD

hobby shanghai

The 20,000 ton Tanggula Shan is China's fourth Landing Platform Dock, with a built in well deck which allows Chinese Marines to start amphibious assaults out of the range of coastal defense.

The Type 071 LPD, the fourth in the class is named Tanggula Shan and will be followed by at least two more Type 071 LPDs. Displacing between 20,000 and 25,000 tons, it can carry up to four Type 726 hovercrafts, which can transport a combination of 65 vehicles or 800 infantry across 60 km of ocean to shore, as well as six Z-8 transport helicopters. Once all six Type 071s enter service, China will have the second largest offshore amphibious assault capability in the world, after the U.S. Marine Corps. A task-force of Type 071s would provide decisive force to take or hold disputed small islands, or as the tip of the spear for a larger invasion from the sea.





Another Type 054A Frigate

www.top81.cn

The stealthy Type 054A frigate, 21st in its class, is China's most modern medium sized surface combatant, with capable air defense and anti-submarine systems.





Type 1130 CIWS

=GT at China Defense Forum

The Type 1130 CIWS, with 11 30mm barrels, is the largest Gatling cannon in the world, firing up to 11,000 rounds a minute (that's nearly 200 rounds a second). Its designers say that it can shoot down 90% of incoming supersonic missiles.

The 4,500-ton Type 054A frigate, the 21st in the class, has improvements over the previous Type 054A frigates. It carries a variable depth sonar in its rear, to improve its submarine detection capabilities. It also has two Type 1130 Close In Weapons Systems (CIWS), replacing the previous two Type 730 CIWS. The Type 1130 CIWS has eleven 30mm barrels, and can fire up to 11,000 shells a minute. As China will likely face enemy submarines and supersonic anti-ship missiles in the near future near seas, 054A+'s upgrades would increase its chances of survival.





Type 0815G Spy Ship

www.top81.cn

This Type 815G spy ship uses its giant radomes to vacuum in enemy electronic activity and communications, providing China with a way to monitor foreign strategic, naval and air activities both in the near seas and internationally (one even went to Hawaii last summer).

While not directly as lethal as its fellow debutants, the Type 815G ELINT spy ship will still provide a critical role in Chinese naval and joint operations. Of particular note are the two sensor domes on the Type 815G’s superstructure; the large size of those domes indicates high sensitivity to record distant enemy radar emissions, electronic jamming frequencies and communications signals. A Type 0815G spy ship showed up at the multinational RIMPAC 2014 exercise (where China was also a participant). In future cyber/kinetic operations, such as those that the late Air Sea Battle concept envisioned, the Type 815G spy ships will help Chinese commanders prepare and understand the battlefield.





A Busy Day

On this fine January 22, 2015 day, you can see three recently launched Chinese warships: the massive Type 071 LPD in front, the Type 815G spy ship somewhat hidden behind it, and the new Type 054A frigate in the background (which orange coverings on its sensor and communications domes above the helicopter hangar).

The three warships of January 22, 2015 will be joined in the following years by other PLAN milestones, such as the Type 055 destroyer, domestically built aircraft carriers and the quiet Type 095 nuclear attack submarine. Modern naval construction techniques like modular building and computer aided design have improved the pace, cost effectiveness and capability of Chinese warships. Amidst sequestration and austerity triggered cutbacks, western navies are struggling to keep naval shipyards in business, China's success in rapidly launching modern warships is even more stark.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## biendong

Vietnam firmly protects sovereignty in East Sea: Deputy Spokesperson
_Vietnam’s authorised agencies are tasked with firmly safeguarding the country’s sovereignty, sovereign rights, and jurisdiction in the East Sea, Foreign Ministry Deputy Spokesperson Pham Thu Hang told reporters at a regular press conference in Hanoi on January 8.



_


----------



## conkhi

biendong said:


> Vietnam firmly protects sovereignty in East Sea: Deputy Spokesperson
> _Vietnam’s authorised agencies are tasked with firmly safeguarding the country’s sovereignty, sovereign rights, and jurisdiction in the East Sea, Foreign Ministry Deputy Spokesperson Pham Thu Hang told reporters at a regular press conference in Hanoi on January 8.
> 
> 
> _


this means war with China, very dangerous for my conkhi brothers.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

Subi Reef，soon to be known as Subi Island：






China's latest land reclamation activity in the SCS。

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## dichoi

*East Sea: Are artificial islands more dangerous than oil rigs?*
_VietNamNet Bridge – Though it is slow and difficult to identify, China’s strategy of building artificial islands in the South China Sea (Bien Dong Sea – East Sea) is dangerous because of its strategic value and the ability to change face that benefits China once the island chain is fully developed ._

The "abrasive" move and China's long-term attempt

China’s East Sea policy has a clear delineation between short term and long term.

The strategy to maintain a continuous presence in the undisputed waters to gradually turn them into disputed areas has been resolutely pursued by Beijing. The 981 oil rig incident is a typical example. China used this oil rig as a "mobile sovereignty landmark " to maintain its presence in the undisputed waters, even in the areas that are completely within the exclusive economic zone of its neighboring countries.

The objective of turning from "no dispute" to "dispute", from "theirs" to "ours", have been implemented in accordance with the motto of the Chinese people, "What is mine is mine, what's yours, we can negotiate."

Along with that move, China’s strengthening and expansion of the construction of artificial islands has shown their long-term strategic calculations in the East Sea. The 981 oil rig is a pretty risky move, but it is substantially easier to manage and attract the support of the international community for a small country like Vietnam. Meanwhile, though it takes place slowly and is difficult to identify, the artificial island building strategy is more dangerous.

Another way to evaluate China’s East Sea strategy is through changes of targets in certain stages. These are intentional changes. We will see the same thing when considering China's maritime strategy from 2009 to present. For example, how could China say that the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea (DOC) - signed in 2002 and the guidelines for implementing the DOC signed in 2011 – would be the lodestar navigation of the parties, when the use of force is still a key tool in Beijing's policy.

Currently, what we can see most clearly in China's steps are the consistency of the overall goal to increase the ability to control the entire East Sea. What is not clear is the specific objectives and tasks that every single department of China will perform.

This is considered the main difficulty, because Vietnam in particular and more broadly, the ASEAN countries and the international community in general, will find it difficult to know in detail what the Chinese agencies in charge of the East Sea will do what, when and where.

Keep calm

Therefore, Vietnam should not be so focused on predicting the short-term and specific goals of China, but on learning about the nature and long-term strategy of China.

Vietnam should probably determine the correct perspective and develop a comprehensive strategy for the East Sea before going into each small act of China. From there, from the overall view, Vietnam can build detailed objectives and plans for each phase.

This raises the need to focus on building a long-term and overall strategy to deal with the long-term goal of China. A sound strategy with clear objectives and specific division of tasks will help ensure efficient utilization of resources within and outside the country, thereby creating advantages in the field and on the negotiating table. Without an overall strategy, Vietnam will be unable to cope with the inconsistent statements and actions of China.

_Luc Minh Tuan - Vu Thanh Cong_


----------



## cirr

New “toy” for the oil game in the SCS launched by China Merchants Heavy Industry Co. Ltd in Shenzhen：











“Haiyangshiyou 707”

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Hindustani78

Japanese air patrols over South China Sea would be 'welcome': Pentagon | The Japan Times

WASHINGTON – The U.S. Defense Department said Friday it would “welcome” future air patrols by Japan over the South China Sea, where China is involved in territorial disputes with some Southeast Asian countries.

But the U.S. State Department did not appear to be in step with the Pentagon in encouraging Japanese involvement in such operations, which would create a potential diplomatic issue all but certain to provoke China.

The two departments were commenting on a recent report that a senior U.S. naval officer favored air patrols by the Maritime Self-Defense Force over the waters.

Such an operation by the MSDF “in the South China Sea makes sense in the future,” Adm. Robert Thomas, top commander of the U.S. Navy’s 7th Fleet, was quoted as saying in a recent interview with Reuters.

The 7th fleet operates from the western Pacific to the Indian Ocean and is based in Yokosuka, Kanagawa Prefecture.

Rear Adm. John Kirby, the Pentagon’s press secretary, told reporters Friday, “We would agree with Adm. Thomas that those kinds of patrols and activity is welcome and will help contribute to stability in the region.”

“There’s no reason for China or any other nation to look at it any differently,” Kirby said.

But State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki stopped short of endorsing the reported remark.

“We’re not aware of any plans or proposals for Japan to patrol the South China Sea,” Psaki told a press briefing. “I believe they were comments made” by a Defense Department official.

The United States welcomes “a more active role for Japan in ensuring stability and security in Asia” Psaki said, adding, “But we’re not aware of plans or proposals for new patrols.”

She said, “It sounds like reports aren’t accurate.”

China has already expressed displeasure at the admiral’s reported remarks.

Hua Chunying, a spokeswoman at the Chinese Foreign Ministry, said Friday that countries outside the region should “refrain from sowing discord among other countries and creating tensions.”

Ties between Japan and China have been strained due mainly to disputes over the Japan-administered Senkaku Islands in the East China Sea, called Diaoyu in China and Tiaoyutai in Taiwan, which also claims them. The isles are uninhabited but believed to be located in areas rich in fishing and energy resources.

The U.S. government has repeatedly asked Tokyo and Beijing to settle the issue through dialogue.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## N/A

Japan is provoking China to do something stupid

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

SquadronLeaderDin said:


> Japan is provoking China to do something stupid



Because they are jealous of our economy/military success.


----------



## N/A

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Because they are jealous of our economy/military success.


JAPAN IS JUST A PUPPET OF THE USA, DID DON'T HAVE THE BALLS TO THREAT CHINA

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

SquadronLeaderDin said:


> JAPAN IS JUST A PUPPET OF THE USA, DID DON'T HAVE THE BALLS TO THREAT CHINA



They are still a little man with a big dream.

Some of their ultra-nationalists are arguing how they are going to bring China down by cooperating with the US.

They also have a genocidal plan for the Chinese people, so they can permanently occupy China's land.

The West keeps arguing about the Nazi atrocities against the Jews, yet deliberately ignoring the genocidal mentality of the right-wing Japanese towards the Chinese people.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## N/A

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> They are still a little man with a big dream.
> 
> Some of their ultra-nationalists are arguing how they are going to bring China down by cooperating with the US.
> 
> They also have a genocidal plan for the Chinese people, so they can permanently occupy China's land.
> 
> The West keeps arguing about the Nazi atrocities against the Jews, yet deliberately ignoring the genocidal mentality of the right-wing Japanese towards the Chinese people.


MANY PEOPLE THAT THE CHINESE WERE ALSO VICTIMS OF GENOCIDE DURING WW2

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

SquadronLeaderDin said:


> MANY PEOPLE THAT THE CHINESE WERE ALSO VICTIMS OF GENOCIDE DURING WW2



Many people are saying that China is acting aggressively towards Japan, but they didn't know the nature of the Japanese people.

Japan is a beast under the cover of an angelic face.

They seem to be nice now, but their hunger for the land and power could easily turn them into the monsters.

The Japanese atrocities were not a myth at all, even the Nazi Germany was shocked by the evil deeds they have done to China.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## 13 komaun

SquadronLeaderDin said:


> JAPAN IS JUST A PUPPET OF THE USA, DID DON'T HAVE THE BALLS TO THREAT CHINA


Pakistan recieves Aid from Japan then why so hostility towards Japan?


----------



## N/A

13 komaun said:


> Pakistan recieves Aid from Japan then why so hostility towards Japan?


THE ENEMY OF OUR ALLY IS OUR ENEMY

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## 13 komaun

SquadronLeaderDin said:


> THE ENEMY OF OUR ALLY IS OUR ENEMY


what kind of medieval world are you living.


Do you even know the quantum of trade between Japan and china and since when Pak declared Japan as its enemy??

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

13 komaun said:


> what kind of medieval world are you living.
> 
> 
> Do you even know the quantum of trade between Japan and china and since when Pak declared Japan as its enemy??



We are reducing our trade volume with Japan if they don't wanna fix their warmongering behavior.


----------



## N/A

13 komaun said:


> what kind of medieval world are you living.
> 
> 
> Do you even know the quantum of trade between Japan and china and since when Pak declared Japan as its enemy??


IM NOT SAYING PAKISTAN AND JAPAN ARE ENEMIES, BUT IN A TIME OF WAR PAKISTAN WILL 100% SUPPORT CHINA ALL THE WAY AGAINST JAPAN

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## 13 komaun

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> We are reducing our trade volume with Japan if they don't wanna fix their warmongering behavior.


Go ahead but Japan is not Vietnam.

Moreover imagine a scenario like what would happen if E.U and U.S impose sanction on you especially in economic slowdown,Its a bigger weapon than Nukes.



SquadronLeaderDin said:


> IM NOT SAYING PAKISTAN AND JAPAN ARE ENEMIES, BUT IN A TIME OF WAR PAKISTAN WILL 100% SUPPORT CHINA ALL THE WAY AGAINST JAPAN


ohh okay

I hope your support would be at par with the Chinese support in Kargil,East Pakistan and siachen.


----------



## N/A

13 komaun said:


> Go ahead but Japan is not Vietnam.
> 
> Moreover imagine a scenario like what would happen if E.U and U.S impose sanction on you especially in economic slowdown,Its a bigger weapon than Nukes.
> 
> 
> ohh okay
> 
> I hope your support would be at par with the Chinese support in Kargil,East Pakistan and siachen.


WE WOULD POLITICAL SUPPORT THEM

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

13 komaun said:


> Go ahead but Japan is not Vietnam.
> 
> Moreover imagine a scenario like what would happen if E.U and U.S impose sanction on you especially in economic slowdown,Its a bigger weapon than Nukes.



- Japan's economy has been messed up, just look at their recent report.

- China is not Russia, ask EU if they wanna impose the sanctions on their biggest trade partner. For example, we just bought 6 million German cars in last year, and do you think Germany is crazy to trigger another sanction against China? The sanction against Russia alone has already created the disastrous consequence on Europe.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## N/A

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> - Japan's economy has been messed up, just look at their recent report.
> 
> - China is not Russia, ask EU if they wanna impose the sanctions on their biggest trade partner. For example, we just bought 6 million German cars in last year, and do you think Germany is crazy to trigger another against China? The sanction against Russia alone has already created the disastrous consequence on Europe.


PUTTING SANCTION ON CHINA WOULD ONLY MESS UP THE ECONOMIES OF THE WESTERN WORLD

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## 13 komaun

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> - Japan's economy has been messed up, just look at their recent report.
> 
> - China is not Russia, ask EU if they wanna impose the sanctions on their biggest trade partner. For example, we just bought 6 million German cars in last year, and do you think Germany is crazy to trigger another against China? The sanction against Russia alone has already created the disastrous consequence on Europe.


Then what are you going to do to stop Japan in S.C.S ,they even occupy your island senkaku?


----------



## Hamartia Antidote

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Some of their ultra-nationalists are arguing how they are going to bring China down by cooperating with the US.
> 
> They also have a genocidal plan for the Chinese people, so they can permanently occupy China's land.



Wow @Nihonjin1051 you probably want to read some of the comments.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

13 komaun said:


> Then what are you going to do to stop Japan in S.C.S ,they even occupy your island senkaku?



Japan cannot control Diaoyu island anymore.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

13 komaun said:


> since when?



Our coast guards are patrolling there most of time, so they cannot approach the island anymore.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## 13 komaun

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Our coast guards are patrolling there most of time, so they cannot approach the island anymore.


Obama says US will defend Japan in island dispute with China | US news | The Guardian


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

13 komaun said:


> Obama says US will defend Japan in island dispute with China | US news | The Guardian



With the lip service only.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## 13 komaun

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> With the lip service only.


So according to you there is already Chinese physical presence on the island


----------



## somsak

Asia need peace. Don't fall into divide and rule trap. Current doctrine of Pentagon can be said as to use other people to die for US interest. Just like france and Russia did in WW 2 for britain. To fight for Britain and get absorb full Germany's military power. Their grand plan is to be the last one into conflict and win.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## terranMarine

The US is up to no good once again, by pushing Japan into this dangerous game the American hawks want to destabilize CN-JP trade and the already fragile political tie between these 2 biggest economies in Asia. A classical doctrine by utilizing her pawn to keep the region tense under false pretense for greater stability. What's next? USA encourages Indian Navy to patrol SCS? What's at stake here is Japan's national interest and not Uncle Sam's, hopefully Japan can see through this obvious trap.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Keel

USA is pernicious
It is another dirty tactic of America to let Japan pit against China
When the #2 and 3 enconomies get embroiled in war, who is left to challenge America's pole position? May be the self proclaimed "supa powa"?


----------



## cirr

*CCG 1501*

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## yusheng

Mainland help Taiwan build Taiping Island (Itu Aba Island ), though many arguments noise, Chinese huge construction ship helped and left.
"Feb, 2 reports, military officials said, "Zhen Hua 7" from off the coast of Anping Harbor starting January 25th, arrived at the Taiping island waters, only spent one and half day finishing all the caisson arranging, then left"

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cirr

Subi Island in the making

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## ahojunk

cirr said:


> Subi Island in the making



Yay! Finally we get to see some pics.
I wonder how big it is going to be.
.


----------



## Rechoice




----------



## Sasquatch

CNOOC certifies 100 billion cubic meter deepwater gas discovery | Petro Global News

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## JSCh

* Thai warships visit South China Sea Fleet *
( Source: China Military Online ) 2015-February-10 16:25 
　　
ZHANJIANG, February 10 (ChinaMil) -- A taskforce consisting of the training ships of the Royal Thai Navy (RTN), led by Telist Panst, vice president of the Royal Thai Naval Academy, arrived at a naval port in Zhanjiang of south China's Guangdong province on the morning of February 9, 2015 and began a 4-day-long goodwill visit to the South China Sea Fleet of the Navy of the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLAN).

　　At about 10:00, the South China Sea Fleet of the PLAN held a welcoming ceremony at the pier of the naval port to welcome the visit of the taskforce of the RTN. After that, Panst and his party called on Shen Jinlong, commander of the South China Sea Fleet of the PLAN.

　　The taskforce of the RTN consists of the frigate "Korahbali", frigate "Bangpakong" and ocean patrol ship "Patani" as well as a total of 696 officers and men, cadets and civilian personnel, according to sources.

　　During the taskforce's visit, the officers and men of the PLAN and the RTN will visit each other's warships, and the two sides will also hold activities including friendly sports tournaments, deck receptions and warship public open day.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Martian2

Philippines Protests China Land Reclamation at Another Reef - ABC News

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Bob Ong

^ moronic nonsense.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Cossack25A1

Martian2 said:


> Philippines Protests China Land Reclamation at Another Reef - ABC News



Again with the detailed yet provocative China-centric comment.

Funny that you also commented that Taiwan should take the entire Luzon while expelling us Filipino... and don't try to play dumb that you didn't said this in a comment section in news and even here in PK defence.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Aepsilons

Cossack25A1 said:


> Again with the detailed yet provocative China-centric comment.
> 
> Funny that you also commented that Taiwan should take the entire Luzon while expelling us Filipino... and don't try to play dumb that you didn't said this in a comment section in news and even here in PK defence.



lol, he did?


----------



## Cossack25A1

Nihonjin1051 said:


> lol, he did?



I looked for the detailed posts but it seems it got deleted along with the articles. I remember it was in the website "The Diplomat" but some of his post clearly indicates what he wants










These were posted back when I was lurking this forums before I made an account here.

Funny enough, his Disqus account has comments that always bring up the Han Dynasty and Ming Dynasty as "justifications."


----------



## Martian2

The Spratly Islands have belonged to China since ancient times. Ocean-faring Chinese explorers had claimed the Spratly Islands a thousand years ago.






"By the twelfth century, names for the South China Sea islands began to appear. The Paracels and the Spratlys were referred to more consistently as Changsha and Shitang. By the mid-fourteenth century, Shitang could be accurately identified as the Spratlys. There is also evidence of Chinese naval control over some areas of the South China Sea, which resulted in complete Chinese dominion of the South China Sea in the late thirteenth century. Finally, in the fifteenth century, Zheng He's seven voyages placed the South China Sea islands on the official navigational charts. In this map, the Xisha Islands are called Shitang, and the Nansha Islands are referred to as Wansheng Shitang Yu."
----------





"The Map of South and East Ocean Sea Routes was drawn in between 1712-1721 by Qing (Ching) Dynasty Fujian (Fuchien) Province Navy Commander Shi Shibiao, the son of a famous Qing Dynasty imperial officer. This map shows the sea routes, time, and descriptions from Chinese coastal ports to Japan, Laos, Vietnam, Indonesia, Brunei, Cambodia and the Philippines. On this map, the locations and names of the Southern Sea Islands (Nanhai Zhudao) are very accurate. The map shows Chinese sovereignty over the South China Sea islands (including Nansha Islands, Xisha Islands, Zhongsha Islands and Dongsha Islands)."

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Cossack25A1

^ Oh please stop living on the past because by that logic, Italy should take over the European Union as well as some portion of Northern Africa, Israel, Palestine and Syria because it used to be Roman Empire territory.

By that logic, Iran should take over parts of the Arabia and South Asia because it used to be Achaemenid Empire territory.

And in general, by following that logic, successor states to the empires of ancient times should do what China does today.

And oh, I am already expecting that you will this post as some dumbass reply or you will completely ignore this, but the conclusion of your logic is basically a total "cluster-fak"

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zero_wing

This guy is like many chinese maoist imperialist SOBs are so full of it they have no real evidence and ignorant of history and common sense hell if that was true they should be under the Mongolians right now or retrun to the old Imperial chinese system this imperialism plan and simply and something to keep the chinese people something to do so that rulling maoist party overlords to rule china.


----------



## ahojunk

Top view picture of Yongshu (Fiery Cross) Island taken around April last year before the start of reclamation.

There is a lighthouse on the top right corner.

The surrounding area would look very different today (but I don't have any updated pics).
.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

Martian2 said:


> The Spratly Islands have belonged to China since ancient times. Ocean-faring Chinese explorers had claimed the Spratly Islands a thousand years ago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "By the twelfth century, names for the South China Sea islands began to appear. The Paracels and the Spratlys were referred to more consistently as Changsha and Shitang. By the mid-fourteenth century, Shitang could be accurately identified as the Spratlys. There is also evidence of Chinese naval control over some areas of the South China Sea, which resulted in complete Chinese dominion of the South China Sea in the late thirteenth century. Finally, in the fifteenth century, Zheng He's seven voyages placed the South China Sea islands on the official navigational charts. In this map, the Xisha Islands are called Shitang, and the Nansha Islands are referred to as Wansheng Shitang Yu."
> ----------
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "The Map of South and East Ocean Sea Routes was drawn in between 1712-1721 by Qing (Ching) Dynasty Fujian (Fuchien) Province Navy Commander Shi Shibiao, the son of a famous Qing Dynasty imperial officer. This map shows the sea routes, time, and descriptions from Chinese coastal ports to Japan, Laos, Vietnam, Indonesia, Brunei, Cambodia and the Philippines. On this map, the locations and names of the Southern Sea Islands (Nanhai Zhudao) are very accurate. The map shows Chinese sovereignty over the South China Sea islands (including Nansha Islands, Xisha Islands, Zhongsha Islands and Dongsha Islands)."



don't lie.

From ancient time , in Chinese book, Chinese recognized there is Jiao Zhi Sea, This is a sea belong to Jiao Zhi People (Vietnamese). 

Look at this map, made by ur ancestor.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ahojunk

Picture of Subi Reef, taken in April 2014. 
Reclamation has started since then, early this year.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Martian2

*Huangyan Island/Scarborough Shoal has always been Chinese*

*• 2000 years ago, during China’s Qin and Han Dynasties, China first found and named Huangyan Island.

• In 1279, Chinese astronomer Guo Shoujing established 27 observatory stations and Huangyan Island was home to one of them.

• In the 15th century, Zheng He’s navigation map pointed out the location of Huangyan Island.

• In 1947, a map drawn up by China’s Interior Ministry meant China had already started to manage Huangyan Island.

• In 1930 and 1960, Huangyan Island was not included in the Philippines’ Constitution and Territorial Baseline Law.*
----------
Citation: China Holds Undisputed Sovereignty over Huangyan Island - CNTV English Special Report

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zero_wing

And yet youcant in bring this to ITCLOS so that negates your whole argument


----------



## Cossack25A1

Another post that talks the past... again.

So I guess China loves living in the past and would try to re-introduce old concepts to the present world. I suspect that once they claim the First and Second Island Chains, they expect tributaries and kowtow to them or China will nuke her neighbors if they don't comply.

Man this is a good setting for a rebellion!


----------



## ahojunk

A bit of nostalgia. Pictures of Meiji (Mischief) Reef in the South location taken in April 2014.







Another view of the south location, I believe this was taken in 2013.





After the reclamation, it would look quite different.

If you have newer pictures, please post.
.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## dichoi

Martian2 said:


> *Huangyan Island/Scarborough Shoal has always been Chinese*
> 
> *• 2000 years ago, during China’s Qin and Han Dynasties, China first found and named Huangyan Island.
> 
> • In 1279, Chinese astronomer Guo Shoujing established 27 observatory stations and Huangyan Island was home to one of them.
> 
> • In the 15th century, Zheng He’s navigation map pointed out the location of Huangyan Island.
> 
> • In 1947, a map drawn up by China’s Interior Ministry meant China had already started to manage Huangyan Island.
> 
> • In 1930 and 1960, Huangyan Island was not included in the Philippines’ Constitution and Territorial Baseline Law.*
> ----------
> Citation: China Holds Undisputed Sovereignty over Huangyan Island - CNTV English Special Report



here is china ancient map.


----------



## ahojunk

Image of Fiery Cross (Yongshu) Island taken on 14 Feb 2015.
There is significant progress, now reclamation is almost complete.
We should be seeing buildings soon.
.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ahojunk

cirr said:


> Subi Island in the making


.

I found a bigger and clearer picture of Subi dated 6 Feb 2015.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

Meijidao（Mischief Island）on 17.02.2015






Land reclamations underway at three locations simultaneously。

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ahojunk

Picture of Nanxun (Gaven) taken around April 2014, before the start of reclamation.


----------



## IamVietnamese

• In April 2014, Angela Merkel gifted to China an *ancient map of China*, drawn by the famous mapmaker _Jean Baptiste Bourguignon d'Anville_ in the 18th century. The map shown that China's limit is in Hainan.






----

• In response to this map, Sohu.com posted a map of _John Nicaragua Dower_ named "*China and Japan*" (1844) and some other maps to prove their country's border. However, the maps themselves didn't show any sign of Paracel Islands and stuffs.

读书频道地图-搜狐读书 (dead link)









---

*Kangxi's Full View Map* (Hangyu Quan Lan Tu 康熙全覽圖) has been made for 10 years by the Jesuits under the order of Kangxi Emperor, which was completed in 1717. This map showed Hanan is China's southernmost point.

[转载]辛亥百年祭——中国人完全不了解的近代史（八）_大野一郎的博客_央视网博客_央视网







---

The first map of *Great Qing United Full Maps* (Da qing yi tong quan tu 大清一統全圖) shows entire China without the Paracel & Spartly Islands.

Digital Collections - Maps - Da Qing yi tong quan tu [cartographic material]







---

"*Atlas of the Chinese Empire*", a work of _Edward Stanford_ in 1908, in partnership with Chinese Imperial Post Offices. Again, China's southernmost point is Hainan.

Atlas of the Chinese empire [microform] : containing separate maps of the eighteen provinces of China proper on the scale of 1:3,000,000 and of the four great dependencies on the scale of 1:7,500,000 together with an index to all the names on the maps and a list of all Protestant missions stations, &c. ; : Stanford, Edward, 1827-1904 : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive






---

"*Old Forces in New China*", a work of _George Lanning_ (principal of Shanghai public school) published at Shanghai, China in 1911, have an attached map that display natural resources of China. The map didn't show any sign of the South Sea islands.






---

Many maps in the book "*Geographie de’la Chine*" of _René Joüon S J_ published at Shanghai in 1931-1932 clearly shown that China never owns the Paracel & Spartly Islands.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ahojunk

Picture of Dongmen taken in April 2014.


----------



## initial_d

The chinese agressiveness in south china sea only bring tension and hostility toward china, south east asian nation began arming themself preparing for the worse and i believe this is a no win situation for china future if they wanted to be great power replacing the U.S, i hope the chinese realised this.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ahojunk

Picture of Huayang (Cuarteron), taken in April 2014.





.


----------



## Place Of Space

initial_d said:


> The chinese agressiveness in south china sea only bring tension and hostility toward china, south east asian nation began arming themself preparing for the worse and i believe this is a no win situation for china future if they wanted to be great power replacing the U.S, i hope the chinese realised this.



Thanks, my same best wishes to Indians.


----------



## initial_d

I


Place Of Space said:


> Thanks, my same best wishes to Indians.


 i am an indonesian not indians, for us indonesia, china has become a threat when they play rough in south china sea, thats why we are starting building millitary base in south china sea natuna island, and new submarine base in palu strait,

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Place Of Space

initial_d said:


> I
> i am an indonesian not indians, for us indonesia, china has become a threat when they play rough in south china sea, thats why we are starting building millitary base in south china sea natuna island, and new submarine base in palu strait,



Really? I am new member I saw the flag -ID, thought it's India.

In my opinion, not need to use it as excuse. Those nations need to change their mindset. To USA, China is a threat, because they donimated the area since defeat Spain in the Philippine. But how to say China is a threat to ASEAN nations?
Do you understand USA is a threat to Cuba, Panama? It's senseless, they can just accept the situation.


----------



## initial_d

China is bigger threat than usa or any other country for asean, the chinese already claim for almost the entired south china sea which is absurd, asean is a weak region in military might, asean country hold a huge natural resource that china need that makes them more agresive, to us china is like newly rich hick that bullies its neighbor because they have the power to,

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Place Of Space

initial_d said:


> China is bigger threat than usa or any other country, the chinese already claim for almost the entired south china sea which is absurd, asean is a weak region compare military might, asean country hold a huge natural resource that china need that makes them more agresive, to us china is like newly rich hick that bullies its neighbor because they have the power to,



I think everybody know the situations. Grumble or complaint doesn't make any sense. China is generalized a South East nation too, we are here always. Rather than complaining everyday, how about thinking about how to cooperate? 

Yes, China, Japan and USA has potential or obvious competitive relations. But China don't has competitive relations with South East nations. By the way, the sea border has never confirmed so far, that's ther reason disputes exist. After confirm border, situation will change. The Philipines and Vietnam lack sincerity to solve disputes.



Place Of Space said:


> I think everybody know the situations. Grumble or complaint doesn't make any sense. China is generalized a South East nation too, we are here always. Rather than complaining everyday, how about thinking about how to cooperate?
> 
> Yes, China, Japan and USA has potential or obvious competitive relations. But China don't has competitive relations with South East nations. By the way, the sea border has never confirmed so far, that's ther reason disputes exist. After confirm border, situation will change. The Philipines and Vietnam lack sincerity to solve disputes.



By the way, nature resource is not a bad thing. Without nature resource, how could Brunei become a rich nation quickly? Sell resource is a kind of economy, lots of nation depend on the model.


----------



## initial_d

Tell 


Place Of Space said:


> I think everybody know the situations. Grumble or complaint doesn't make any sense. China is generalized a South East nation too, we are here always. Rather than complaining everyday, how about thinking about how to cooperate?
> 
> Yes, China, Japan and USA has potential or obvious competitive relations. But China don't has competitive relations with South East nations. By the way, the sea border has never confirmed so far, that's ther reason disputes exist. After confirm border, situation will change. The Philipines and Vietnam lack sincerity to solve disputes.
> 
> 
> 
> By the way, nature resource is not a bad thing. Without nature resource, how could Brunei become a rich nation quickly? Sell resource is a kind of economy, lots of nation depend on the model.


Tell that to the phillipine and the vietnamese, ofcourse natural resource is a good thing, until the big bad guy on the block wanted it and try to take it by force.....


----------



## Place Of Space

initial_d said:


> Tell
> 
> Tell that to the phillipine and the vietnamese, ofcourse natural resource is a good thing, until the big bad guy on the block wanted it and try to take it by force.....



Repeat, the sea border has not confirmed. 

You might be clear China is not a new comer. Before Spain, USA reach the area, China had already exist here, China is always here. Near some South East nation's coastline, they salvage a lots of ancient sunken ships which are filled with Chinese goods.

Did you ever hear about the Batu Hitam ancient ship near Billiton islands? You guys always can't remember there were thousand year good trade and relations among China and South East nation.


----------



## ahojunk

A bit of nostalgia. Top view pic of Johnson South (Chigua) taken in 2009.
Of course, it would look quite different now.






.


----------



## initial_d

Oh y


Place Of Space said:


> Repeat, the sea border has not confirmed.
> 
> You might be clear China is not a new comer. Before Spain, USA reach the area, China had already exist here, China is always here. Near some South East nation's coastline, they salvage a lots of ancient sunken ships which are filled with Chinese goods.
> 
> Did you ever hear about the Batu Hitam ancient ship near Billiton islands? You guys always can't remember there were thousand year good trade and relations among China and South East nation.


Ofcourse we know we have thousand of years trade relation between imperial china and south east asian ancient kingdom, but it doesnt meant that south china sea is part of imperial china, indonesia never claim the whole south east asia even though in the past most of south east asia is part of sriwijaya, majapahit and malaya kingdom, we never claim part of australia and new guinea even that teritory is part of ancient majapahit and ternate kingdom. Stick to the present please, if you talking about the past, china is part of mongol empire, would you give all your soverign to the mongol becouse of the past history??

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Place Of Space

initial_d said:


> Oh y
> 
> Ofcourse we know we have thousand of years trade relation between imperial china and south east asian ancient kingdom, but it doesnt meant that south china sea is part of imperial china, indonesia never claim the whole south east asia even though in the past most of south east asia is part of sriwijaya, majapahit and malaya kingdom, we never claim part of australia and new guinea even that teritory is part of ancient majapahit and ternate kingdom. Stick to the present please, if you talking about the past, china is part of mongol empire, would you give all your soverign to the mongol becouse of the past history??



You still don't understand what I talk about? I repeat the marine border has not confirmed, it needs talk or negotiate. But look at those country's attitude. I don't know if they don't want to negotiate with China, or the USA threat them not to negotiate. Who knows? After we confirm the border, will there be disputes and conflicts? The guys always say China is aggressive and invade them, the border has not confirmed, how to say invade? If we claim Palawan, and want to occupy it, that's aggressive and invade, because Palawan has confirmed the Philippines' territory. Can you understand what I say?

Another example, China and Vietnam even once had a war on land border before the boundary confirmed. ( I regret it. )But now the boundary area is peace and mutual trade is huge. Why? After year 1991 confirm the border, year 2000 wholly measured and put landmark, there are no disputes anymore. Nowadays, those nation always refuse to negotiate and confirm boundary, what can we do? We can just estimate what those lovely neighbors want: China develop navy, defeat USA, then they come to talk. Is my guess right or wrong, I don't know what's in your guys' mind.


----------



## initial_d

Are you


Place Of Space said:


> You still don't understand what I talk about? I repeat the marine border has not confirmed, it needs talk or negotiate. But look at those country's attitude. I don't know if they don't want to negotiate with China, or the USA threat them not to negotiate. Who knows? After we confirm the border, will there be disputes and conflicts? The guys always say China is aggressive and invade them, the border has not confirmed, how to say invade? If we claim Palawan, and want to occupy it, that's aggressive and invade, because Palawan has confirmed the Philippines' territory. Can you understand what I say?
> 
> Another example, China and Vietnam even once had a war on land border before the boundary confirmed. ( I regret it. )But now the boundary area is peace and mutual trade is huge. Why? After year 1991 confirm the border, year 2000 wholly measured and put landmark, there are no disputes anymore. Nowadays, those nation always refuse to negotiate and confirm boundary, what can we do? We can just estimate what those lovely neighbors want: China develop navy, defeat USA, then they come to talk. Is my guess right or wrong, I don't know what's in your guys' mind.


Lol....if you really sane, think about china map that doesnt make sense in south china sea, youre talking about negotiate thing, the only party that refuse negotiate is china, sending its navy and coast guard instead, why not setled it in court then. Oh well i should know not to argue with self center new rich hick on the block.....

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Place Of Space

initial_d said:


> Are you
> 
> Lol....if you really sane, think about china map that doesnt make sense in south china sea, youre talking about negotiate thing, the only party that refuse negotiate is china, sending its navy and coast guard instead, why not setled it in court then. Oh well i should know not to argue with self center new rich hick on the block.....




Indonesia and Malaysia also has marine disputes, why you guys don't go to court? 

By the way, China is also victim of colony era, you need to learn more about world history. You mentioned Mongol, it got independence from China in 1945. China confess it and there is no boundary disputes between Mongolia and China.

I just heard among South East countries, there are lot of islands disputes. How will the countries solve it?


----------



## initial_d

We 


Place Of Space said:


> Indonesia and Malaysia also has marine disputes, why you guys don't go to court?
> 
> By the way, China is also victim of colony era, you need to learn more about world history. You mentioned Mongol, it got independence from China in 1945. China confess it and there is no boundary disputes between Mongolia and China.
> 
> I just heard among South East countries, there are lot of islands disputes. How will the countries solve it?


 we do go to court, we lost ambalat to malaysia, we solve our border with the phillipine, thai, singapore and east timor in the rightful manner. China should do the same, be a responsible neighbour in this region and we will respect you, stop using gunboat diplomacy to solve the problem, if not this regiom gonna heat up and turn the economy sour.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

initial_d said:


> I
> i am an indonesian not indians, for us indonesia, china has become a threat when they play rough in south china sea, thats why we are starting building millitary base in south china sea natuna island, and new submarine base in palu strait,



thanks. you shared the same feeling to us.


----------



## Place Of Space

initial_d said:


> We
> we do go to court, we lost ambalat to malaysia, we solve our border with the phillipine, thai, singapore and east timor in the rightful manner. China should do the same, be a responsible neighbour in this region and we will respect you, stop using gunboat diplomacy to solve the problem, if not this regiom gonna heat up and turn the economy sour.



Where is Ambalat? I search it online, but no result. My geography is not good, can you show me a map about the location? Could you also introduce some details of those solution between your country and those countries? Maybe it is not a bad idea.
And you guys always blah blah China's gunboat diplomacy. Tell me, when, where, how China gunboat Indonesia, Malaysia, Brunei, Vietnam and the Philippines these 30 years? Which warships were sunken by China? I hope you can complain something depend on truth. It's senseless to talk about concepts always, right?


----------



## BoQ77

Place Of Space said:


> Where is Ambalat? I search it online, but no result. My geography is not good, can you show me a map about the location? Could you also introduce some details of those solution between your country and those countries? Maybe it is not a bad idea.
> And you guys always blah blah China's gunboat diplomacy. Tell me, when, where, how China gunboat Indonesia, Malaysia, Brunei, Vietnam and the Philippines these 30 years? Which warships were sunken by China? I hope you can complain something depend on truth. It's senseless to talk about concepts always, right?



I guess because of censorship you can't have it, am I right?

min 01:00


----------



## Place Of Space

BoQ77 said:


> thanks. you shared the same feeling to us.



In my opinion, ( no offence ), Indonesia and Vietnam are two very different nations. Indonesia is a huge country, it has a potential to be a world power in the future, if develop fast, and avoid getting involved into war during the period. Vietnam's size, shape is similar with Italy, the material limit its possibility to be a world power only if you guys invent a great "strange" thing like British did in 18th century. Facing to one same thing, you guys are unable to feel the same. Indonesian govt can make decision based on their own mind.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

Place Of Space said:


> In my opinion, ( no offence ), Indonesia and Vietnam are two very different nations. Indonesia is a huge country, it has a potential to be a world power in the future, if develop fast, and avoid getting involved into war during the period. Vietnam's size, shape is similar with Italy, the material limit its possibility to be a world power only if you guys invent a great "strange" thing like British did in 18th century. Facing to one same thing, you guys are unable to feel the same. Indonesian govt can make decision based on their own mind.



1. you misquoted.
2. how about your opinion about Japan ? I guess China must overpass Japan for hundred times in the past based on your logic.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Place Of Space

BoQ77 said:


> I guess because of censorship you can't have it, am I right?
> 
> min 01:00


, naughty buddy, you make fun of me again. . Censorship may be part of the reason, but I really didn't hear about this place before. It maybe a very little island.



BoQ77 said:


> I guess because of censorship you can't have it, am I right?
> 
> min 01:00


, I can't open the file.


----------



## BoQ77

Place Of Space said:


> , naughty buddy, you make fun of me again. . Censorship may be part of the reason, but I really didn't hear about this place before. It maybe a very little island.
> 
> 
> , I can't open the file.



that called censorship when you can't access youtube by govt act.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Place Of Space

BoQ77 said:


> 1. you misquoted.
> 2. how about your opinion about Japan ? I guess China must overpass Japan for hundred times in the past based on your logic.



China, India, Japan, Indonesia and Australia is five powers in Asia. Japan lead Asia for a long time between 1900's and WWII, but nowadays Japan is a strange nation controlled by USA. It's very easy for Vietnam to change constitution, but do you know how hard it is Japan change its constitution if USA disagree?



BoQ77 said:


> that called censorship when you can't access youtube by govt act.



Of course I know, China govt banned Youtube, google, facebook and twitter for complicated reasons. can you put it on tudou ( means potato )?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

Our Old Map

This is my reply on you

@BoQ77

Majapahit Kingdom

*1293–1527
Today part of





Indonesia



Malaysia



Singapore



Brunei



Thailand



East Timor



Philippines*

*Majapahit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
*


----------



## ahojunk

Satellite imagery showing the progress of Nanxun (Gaven) Island, from 30 March 2014 through to 30 January 2015. What a pretty sight!

On 30 January 2015, there is already a causeway linking the original structure to the reclaimed island. All these work in 10 months, incredible achievement.

There is a lot of construction activities going on the island.





.


----------



## ahojunk

Picture of Chigua (Johnson South) in January 2015. Lots of construction happening.
The original outpost (facility) is now incorporated into the reclaimed island. Adjacent to it is a new multi-storey building being built. It has a nice dredged harbour.


----------



## BoQ77

Indos said:


> Our Old Map
> 
> This is my reply on you
> 
> @BoQ77
> 
> Majapahit Kingdom
> 
> *1293–1527
> Today part of
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indonesia
> 
> 
> 
> Malaysia
> 
> 
> 
> Singapore
> 
> 
> 
> Brunei
> 
> 
> 
> Thailand
> 
> 
> 
> East Timor
> 
> 
> 
> Philippines*
> 
> *Majapahit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> *



Which question from me?


----------



## Indos

BoQ77 said:


> Which question from me?



From other thread, I dont want to be off topic when you asked me about 9 dot map of China at a thread talking about China railing system (if I am not mistaken), so here I give our old map that consist of other ASEAN countries land and sea at this thread since we are discussing SCS dispute here.


----------



## BoQ77

Indos said:


> From other thread, I dont want to be off topic when you asked me about 9 dot map of China at a thread talking about China railing system (if I am not mistaken), so here I give our old map that consist of other ASEAN countries land and sea at this thread since we are discussing SCS dispute here.



Yeah, thanks !!!
How about your opinion about their recent acts ?


----------



## Indos

BoQ77 said:


> Yeah, thanks !!!
> How about your opinion about their recent acts ?



I think every one should refrain any aggressive act, once it is seen by the people from a nationalistic media, so it can have terrible consequence and current government can be pressured psychologically at their home country to act more aggressive. At Ambalat sea, we have already used warship and fighter jet plus putting some marine personnel there to counter Malaysia move, and you know what was happening when our media covered it.....? Our people asked our President to have a war with Malaysia.........


----------



## BoQ77

Indos said:


> I think every one should refrain any aggressive act, once it is seen by the people from a nationalistic media, so it can have terrible consequence and current government can be pressured psychologically at their home country to act more aggressive. At Ambalat sea, we have already used warship and fighter jet plus putting some marine personnel there to counter Malaysia move, and you know what was happening when our media covered it.....? Our people asked our President to have a war with Malaysia.........



at this moment, it seems that the only one acts unilaterally is China.


----------



## ahojunk

In pictures, the evolution of Dongmen (Hughes) from 380 sq metre platform to 75,000 sq metre island.

*Prior to the start - 2004*





*April 2014*





*14 August 2014*





*15 November 2014*





*24 January 2015*

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## ahojunk

Why is the US constantly sowing discord in South China Sea? - People's Daily Online

*Why is the US constantly sowing discord in South China Sea?*
(People's Daily Online) 08:42, February 05, 2015

The US 7th Fleet Commander Robert Thomas recently stated that the United States would welcome a Japanese extension of air patrols into the South China Sea. The Pentagon subsequently expressed support for this statement and said this would help to maintain stability in the South China Sea.

We all know the South China Sea is not peaceful. In recent decades, several countries surrounding the region have been eroding Chinese territory and violating China's economic rights and interests in the region.

Meanwhile, the United States pushes its 'rebalancing'strategy in the Asia-Pacific region and expands its military presence in the region. For some time, the Unites States has not only conducted close surveillance over China, but also expanded its alliances and partnerships in the region.

The Unites States is an obvious agitator in the South China Sea disputes, which would be resolved through direct negotiation without US interference.

Senior US military officials and officials of the Department of Defense are now encouraging Japan to get involved in South China Sea affairs Their objectives are as follows:

First, by expanding the internationalization of the South China Sea, to exert more international pressure on China; second, through a joint show of force by the United States and Japan, to upgrade the deterrent to China; third, sending a signal to the other parties involved that they have no need to rely on diplomatic means to seek mutual benefits; they can depend on the interference of the United States.

The United States has nothing more to offer than continued dominance in East Asia. It appears to take the view that neither China nor any of the other countries which are actually located in this region are entitled to develop rules that apply there. China only seeks to safeguard its legitimate rights and interests of national sovereignty, and does not seek any special entitlements. The South China Sea has historically belonged to China, and its neighboring countries have accepted that as a fact in the past.

The United States has repeatedly encouraged Japan to patrol in the region, an indication that it hopes to take advantage of the Sino-Japanese conflict to hinder independent consultations between China and the ASEAN countries.

In the name of regional stability, the United States is sowing discord in the South China Sea. It will not succeed in its attempts to dominate the region, and the East Asian countries should realize that achieving regional development and security depend on cooperation.

The author is Shen Dingli, a professor and associate dean at the Institute of International Studies of Shanghai-based Fudan University.

_This article was edited and translated from 美国为何唯恐南海不乱, source: People's Daily Overseas Edition, author: Shen Dingli._

.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Martian2

*Chinese Song Dynasty artifacts from South China Sea prove sovereignty*

The following photographs prove Chinese Song Dynasty (960-1279) galleons traversed the entirety of the South China Sea islands and maritime territory. China had sovereignty over the South China Sea hundreds of years before the existence of the Philippines (1946) or Vietnam (1945).
----------

Over 60,000 Song porcelains discovered in South China Sea

"*Over 60,000 Song porcelains discovered in South China Sea*
2015/1/31 17:04:17





Photo taken on Jan. 28, 2015 shows an archaeologist showing ancient coins discovered on the Nanhai (South China Sea) No. 1 ship at the "Crystal Palace" at the Marine Silk Road Museum in Yangjiang, south China's Guangdong Province. After seven years of excavation, more than 60,000 porcelain artifacts from the Song Dynasty (960-1279) have been discovered on the ship, which had lain undersea for more than 800 years and was put into protection in the Marine Silk Road Museum after its salvage in 2007. (Xinhua/Liu Dawei)






Photo taken on Jan. 29, 2015 shows artifacts discovered on the Nanhai (South China Sea) No. 1 ship at the "Crystal Palace" at the Marine Silk Road Museum in Yangjiang, south China's Guangdong Province. After seven years of excavation, more than 60,000 porcelain artifacts from the Song Dynasty (960-1279) have been discovered on the ship, which had lain undersea for more than 800 years and was put into protection in the Marine Silk Road Museum after its salvage in 2007. (Xinhua/Liu Dawei)






Photo taken on Jan. 28, 2015 shows archaeologists checking the cracks on the Nanhai (South China Sea) No. 1 ship at the "Crystal Palace" at the Marine Silk Road Museum in Yangjiang, south China's Guangdong Province. After seven years of excavation, more than 60,000 porcelain artifacts from the Song Dynasty (960-1279) have been discovered on the ship, which had lain undersea for more than 800 years and was put into protection in the Marine Silk Road Museum after its salvage in 2007. (Xinhua/Liu Dawei)






Photo taken on Jan. 29, 2015 shows Chen Fangcai (C), an expert in traditional shipbuilding, examining the Nanhai (South China Sea) No. 1 ship at the "Crystal Palace" at the Marine Silk Road Museum in Yangjiang, south China's Guangdong Province. After seven years of excavation, more than 60,000 porcelain artifacts from the Song Dynasty (960-1279) have been discovered on the ship, which had lain undersea for more than 800 years and was put into protection in the Marine Silk Road Museum after its salvage in 2007. (Xinhua/Liu Dawei)






Photo taken on Jan. 29, 2015 shows an archaeologist covering the Nanhai (South China Sea) No. 1 ship with cloth for protection at the "Crystal Palace" at the Marine Silk Road Museum in Yangjiang, south China's Guangdong Province. After seven years of excavation, more than 60,000 porcelain artifacts from the Song Dynasty (960-1279) have been discovered on the ship, which had lain undersea for more than 800 years and was put into protection in the Marine Silk Road Museum after its salvage in 2007. (Xinhua/Liu Dawei)






Photo taken on Jan. 28, 2015 shows archaeologists taking protection measures of the Nanhai (South China Sea) No. 1 ship at the "Crystal Palace" at the Marine Silk Road Museum in Yangjiang, south China's Guangdong Province. After seven years of excavation, more than 60,000 porcelain artifacts from the Song Dynasty (960-1279) have been discovered on the ship, which had lain undersea for more than 800 years and was put into protection in the Marine Silk Road Museum after its salvage in 2007. (Xinhua/Liu Dawei)






Photo taken on Jan. 28, 2015 shows archaeologists registering a porcelain discovered on the Nanhai (South China Sea) No. 1 ship at the "Crystal Palace" at the Marine Silk Road Museum in Yangjiang, south China's Guangdong Province. After seven years of excavation, more than 60,000 porcelain artifacts from the Song Dynasty (960-1279) have been discovered on the ship, which had lain undersea for more than 800 years and was put into protection in the Marine Silk Road Museum after its salvage in 2007. (Xinhua/Liu Dawei)


Source: English.news.cn"

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## Martian2

*China owns the South China Sea for eight reasons*

*1. The United States pledges neutrality on the issue of the South China Sea.* The United States makes no claim to any South China Sea island or maritime territory. If the shooting starts, the Philippines is on its own. You can't claim the United States did not warn you. The United States has been adamant about U.S. neutrality in the South China Sea for years.

*2. The Ukraine war proves that the United States will not lift a finger.* The United States does not care about the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances or the redrawing of a European country's border in violation of the United Nations charter. The United States will not fight a war against Russia. Similarly, the United States is not about to fight China over the South China Sea.

NATO carved Kosovo out of Serbia. Russia is returning the favor in Georgia, Crimea, and Ukraine's Donbas.

*3. If the U.S. thinks that you are a loser, it will dump you in a heartbeat.* Former Georgian president Mikheil Saakashvili was recently denied a work visa in the United States. He's a liability now to future U.S.-Russian foreign relations.

*4. China is busy building artificial islands and establishing an impregnable Maginot Line in the South China Sea.*

*5. China has the shortest logistical lines. There is a massive Chinese naval base on Hainan Island.* China will be able to bring the most firepower to bear in a South China Sea conflict.

*6. China has a SOSUS network in its bordering seas.* This provides China with a huge advantage in detection.

*7. Any South China Sea battle will receive support from China's land-based aircraft and missiles.* With a KJ-2000 AWACS with L-band radar serving as quarterback, Chinese fighters will own the sky above the South China Sea. Additional support will come from Chinese DF-21D ASBMs.

*8. For argument's sake, let's assume China loses the South China Sea war. This would be a minor setback.* Mass production of Chinese Chengdu J-20 and Shenyang J-31 stealth fighters will start in 2018. China will have technological and military dominance over the South China Sea.

It's a foregone conclusion that China owns the South China Sea. The military means are there today. In the worst case scenario, the military means will be there in five to ten years. Thus, China can keep on fighting until the latest military technologies are deployed in the South China Sea.
----------

Citations.

1. Challenges Mount to Beijing's South China Sea Claims
"While the U.S. maintains its neutrality on territorial disputes...."
2. Memorandum on Security Assurances in connection with Ukraine's accession to the Treaty on the NPT
3. Saakashvili denied to get business visa in the U.S. - AzerNews
4. Imagery shows progress of Chinese land building across Spratlys - IHS Jane's 360
5. New Chinese SSBN Deploys to Hainan Island - Federation Of American Scientists
6. China Has Begun Listening for American Submarines — War Is Boring — Medium
7. PLA-AF Airborne Early Warning & Control Programs
8. J-20 Stealth Fighter Design Balances Speed And Agility | Zhuhai 2014 content from Aviation Week

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## cirr

Subi Island 22.02.2015







Actions speak louder than words。






Subi Island and ROC's Taiping Island（Itu Aba Island）to the same scale

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## cirr

*CCG 1305*，a new member in China's maritime law enforcement force

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## ahojunk

Subi looks to be another big island in the making.

The other big islands in the SCS are Yongxing (Woody), Yongshu (Fiery Cross). Very soon, Subi will be bigger than Taiping. From what I gather Huayang (Cuarteron) will also be bigger than Taiping.

Taiping Island is not that big after all.

Does anyone has statistics of the SCS island sizes?
.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

Thanks Chinese members to provide more evidences of China illegal occupation in SCS.
We would fight by peaceful way at the court.


----------



## BoQ77

The Arleigh Burke-class guided-missile destroyer USS Michael Murphy (DDG 112), right, and the French navy frigate FS Vendemiaire (F734) conduct a passing exercise while operating in the South China Sea


----------



## Martian2

*Chinese YJ-18 Aegis-killer missile trumps Arleigh Burke*

How long do you think an Arleigh Burke would last against 12 simultaneous-incoming Chinese YJ-18 Aegis-killer missiles from all directions (e.g. 1 o'clock through 12 o'clock)?
One minute?
For those that have never seen this video, the Chinese YJ-18 warhead maneuvers evasively to home-in on the target-ship before impact.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

*Under Secretary Gottemoeller Travels to the Philippines, Vietnam, Australia and New Zealand*

Media Note
Office of the Spokesperson
Washington, DC
February 25, 2015

Rose Gottemoeller, Under Secretary of State for Arms Control and International Security, will travel to Manila, Quang Tri province, Hanoi, Canberra, Sydney, and Wellington for meetings with counterparts from February 27–March 9.

From February 27–March 1, Under Secretary Gottemoeller will visit the Philippines, meeting in Manila with senior Department of Foreign Affairs and Department of National Defense officials to discuss regional security, bilateral security cooperation, maritime security, and the upcoming Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty Review Conference (NPT RevCon). On February 28, the Under Secretary will visit Subic Naval Station and tour the Philippines Navy Frigate BRP 15 Gregorio del Pilar.

On March 1–2, Under Secretary Gottemoeller will travel to Quang Tri Province in Vietnam to observe U.S.-funded efforts to survey and clear Unexploded Ordnance (UXO) of war. She will also meet with provincial level authorities and non-governmental organizations.

On March 3, the Under Secretary will travel to Hanoi to discuss the U.S.-Vietnam bilateral relationship during the 20thanniversary of normalized relations, as well as regional security, security cooperation, maritime security, and the upcoming NPT RevCon with her Vietnamese counterparts.

From March 4–5, Under Secretary Gottemoeller will meet with counterparts from the Australian Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade and the Department of Defence to discuss U.S.-Australia defense cooperation, regional security, and other international security topics in Canberra. On March 5, she will also deliver the Robert O’Neill Lecture at the Australian National University. The title of the remarks is “Stemming the Nuclear Tide: The Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty at 45.”

On March 6, Under Secretary Gottemoeller will deliver remarks at the University of Sydney on “The Role of the United States in Asia-Pacific Security.”

On March 9, Under Secretary Gottemoeller will meet with Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade and Ministry of Defence officials to discuss international security issues in Wellington, New Zealand. The Under Secretary will speak with area students about Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics (STEM) education and she will also deliver remarks on the NPT RevCon at the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs (NZIIA).

For updates, follow Under Secretary Rose Gottemoeller on Twitter: @Gottemoeller



Martian2 said:


> *Chinese YJ-18 Aegis-killer missile trumps Arleigh Burke*
> 
> How long do you think an Arleigh Burke would last against 12 simultaneous-incoming Chinese YJ-18 Aegis-killer missiles from all directions (e.g. 1 o'clock through 12 o'clock)?
> One minute?
> For those that have never seen this video, the Chinese YJ-18 warhead maneuvers evasively to home-in on the target-ship before impact.



In paper, it takes only 1 second. Anyway, what's YJ-18 ?
How's about SM-6 ?
RIM-162 ESSM ?


----------



## ahojunk

Progress of Yongshu Island in pictures, from 8 Aug 2014 to 8 Jan 2015, i.e. over 5 months. 

The progress is just incredible.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Place Of Space

ahojunk said:


> Progress of Yongshu Island in pictures, from 8 Aug 2014 to 8 Jan 2015, i.e. over 5 months. The progress is incredible, isn't it?
> 
> View attachment 196676



Good jobs. China has showed goodwill of negotiation to neighbors for 30 years, with no positive feedback. It's time to do some effective things, otherwise those neighboring guys are still living in daydreams.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## 70U63

Place Of Space said:


> Good jobs. China has showed goodwill of negotiation to neighbors for 30 years, with no positive feedback. It's time to do some effective things, otherwise those neighboring guys are still living in daydreams.



Should be building and negotiating at the same time.
China is quite late to the 'party', that's why a lot of reefs and islands have been occupied by other nations.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Place Of Space

G3 of Cairo Conference in 1943, issued an ultimatum to Nazi Japan.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Martian2

*Dragon vs. Eagle: South China Sea balance of power*

China is currently reclaiming seven islands with 600 acres of land in the South China Sea. In comparison, the United States has 11 aircraft carriers with a surface area of four acres each. In total, the U.S. has 44 acres.

The advantage of the U.S. 44 acres is its mobility. However, the disadvantage is those 44 acres can be sunk.

China's 600 acres are unsinkable. Also, China is busy building its own aircraft carriers to level the playing field.

In conclusion, China is winning the South China Sea stare-down. China is likely to reclaim islands beyond the seven currently. In three years, Chengdu J-20 heavy stealth fighters will augment Chinese firepower in the South China Sea. Around 2020, we may see the emergence of Chinese Nimitz-class supercarriers.
----------

McCain Points To ‘Dramatic Change’ In Chinese-Built Islands | Breaking Defense - Defense industry news, analysis and commentary

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Nike

Martian2 said:


> *Dragon vs. Eagle: South China Sea balance of power*
> 
> China is currently reclaiming seven islands with 600 acres of land in the South China Sea. In comparison, the United States has 11 aircraft carriers with a surface area of four acres each. In total, the U.S. has 44 acres.
> 
> The advantage of the U.S. 44 acres is its mobility. However, the disadvantage is those 44 acres can be sunk.
> 
> China's 600 acres are unsinkable. Also, China is busy building its own aircraft carriers to level the playing field.
> 
> In conclusion, China is winning the South China Sea stare-down. China is likely to reclaim islands beyond the seven currently. In three years, Chengdu J-20 heavy stealth fighters will augment Chinese firepower in the South China Sea. Around 2020, we may see the emergence of Chinese Nimitz-class supercarriers.
> ----------
> 
> McCain Points To ‘Dramatic Change’ In Chinese-Built Islands | Breaking Defense - Defense industry news, analysis and commentary




yeah-yeah whatever you said, you made bad example for much Chinese member with your own stupidity. Just tell what happened to the unsinkable Japanese fortress in Peleliu, Okinawa, Tarawa, Guam, Iwo Jima in WW II? and then right now Chinese think they are clever enough not to repeat the same mistakes


----------



## jhungary

madokafc said:


> yeah-yeah whatever you said, you made bad example for much Chinese member with your own stupidity. Just tell what happened to the unsinkable Japanese fortress in Peleliu, Okinawa, Tarawa, Guam, Iwo Jima in WW II? and then right now Chinese think they are clever enough not to repeat the same mistakes



first time I ever heard of an comparasion of an Island to Aircraft Carrier, I dont know what @Martian2 is smoking but I want some of that...

An Island is not the same as an aircraft carrier, primarily because you can move an Aircraft Carrier but you cant move an Island.

Also an Island defence would only be a good initiative when you can defend them. Air, Land and Sea, and if you cant, then that would only be a giant graveyard for the defender. Simply because you would have nowhere to run...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Martian2

*China is building an anti-stealth Integrated Air Defense Network in the South China Sea*

Imagery shows progress of Chinese land building across Spratlys - IHS Jane's 360

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Cossack25A1

It may be unsinkable but that is from human perspective (i.e. using weapons to sink an island). What if a tsunami hits that island?


----------



## Martian2

Cossack25A1 said:


> It may be unsinkable but that is from human perspective (i.e. using weapons to sink an island). What if a tsunami hits that island?



Use helicopters and aircraft to airlift personnel off the island. Ships will sail out to sea where the wave disturbance is small.

Damaged equipment can be replaced.

A possible mitigator is to build a seawall. Also, perhaps build some sandbars to slow a tsunami down.

In the end, a valuable military asset entails risk.

The Chinese SOSUS will be useful in giving warning to the island personnel ahead of time when an earthquake triggers a tsunami.



jhungary said:


> first time I ever heard of an comparasion of an Island to Aircraft Carrier, I dont know what @Martian2 is smoking but I want some of that...
> 
> An Island is not the same as an aircraft carrier, primarily because you can move an Aircraft Carrier but you cant move an Island.
> 
> Also an Island defence would only be a good initiative when you can defend them. Air, Land and Sea, and if you cant, then that would only be a giant graveyard for the defender. Simply because you would have nowhere to run...



Oddly, you are the first person who does not understand that I'm comparing two military assets. An aircraft carrier carries jet fighters. Similarly, an island contains an airfield, jet fighters, missile batteries, radars, helicopters (with sonobuoys), ammunition, etc.

I was on Bloomberg News comment section for about three years. Often, I compared the four acres on a US aircraft carrier to China's unsinkable aircraft carrier of 9.6 million square kilometers. No one ever complained.

You are the first person who does not understand the analogy.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Rechoice

Martian2 said:


> *Chinese Song Dynasty artifacts from South China Sea prove sovereignty*
> 
> The following photographs prove Chinese Song Dynasty (960-1279) galleons traversed the entirety of the South China Sea islands and maritime territory. China had sovereignty over the South China Sea hundreds of years before the existence of the Philippines (1946) or Vietnam (1945).
> ----------
> 
> Over 60,000 Song porcelains discovered in South China Sea
> 
> "*Over 60,000 Song porcelains discovered in South China Sea*
> 2015/1/31 17:04:17
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Photo taken on Jan. 28, 2015 shows an archaeologist showing ancient coins discovered on the Nanhai (South China Sea) No. 1 ship at the "Crystal Palace" at the Marine Silk Road Museum in Yangjiang, south China's Guangdong Province. After seven years of excavation, more than 60,000 porcelain artifacts from the Song Dynasty (960-1279) have been discovered on the ship, which had lain undersea for more than 800 years and was put into protection in the Marine Silk Road Museum after its salvage in 2007. (Xinhua/Liu Dawei)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Photo taken on Jan. 29, 2015 shows artifacts discovered on the Nanhai (South China Sea) No. 1 ship at the "Crystal Palace" at the Marine Silk Road Museum in Yangjiang, south China's Guangdong Province. After seven years of excavation, more than 60,000 porcelain artifacts from the Song Dynasty (960-1279) have been discovered on the ship, which had lain undersea for more than 800 years and was put into protection in the Marine Silk Road Museum after its salvage in 2007. (Xinhua/Liu Dawei)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Photo taken on Jan. 28, 2015 shows archaeologists checking the cracks on the Nanhai (South China Sea) No. 1 ship at the "Crystal Palace" at the Marine Silk Road Museum in Yangjiang, south China's Guangdong Province. After seven years of excavation, more than 60,000 porcelain artifacts from the Song Dynasty (960-1279) have been discovered on the ship, which had lain undersea for more than 800 years and was put into protection in the Marine Silk Road Museum after its salvage in 2007. (Xinhua/Liu Dawei)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Photo taken on Jan. 29, 2015 shows Chen Fangcai (C), an expert in traditional shipbuilding, examining the Nanhai (South China Sea) No. 1 ship at the "Crystal Palace" at the Marine Silk Road Museum in Yangjiang, south China's Guangdong Province. After seven years of excavation, more than 60,000 porcelain artifacts from the Song Dynasty (960-1279) have been discovered on the ship, which had lain undersea for more than 800 years and was put into protection in the Marine Silk Road Museum after its salvage in 2007. (Xinhua/Liu Dawei)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Photo taken on Jan. 29, 2015 shows an archaeologist covering the Nanhai (South China Sea) No. 1 ship with cloth for protection at the "Crystal Palace" at the Marine Silk Road Museum in Yangjiang, south China's Guangdong Province. After seven years of excavation, more than 60,000 porcelain artifacts from the Song Dynasty (960-1279) have been discovered on the ship, which had lain undersea for more than 800 years and was put into protection in the Marine Silk Road Museum after its salvage in 2007. (Xinhua/Liu Dawei)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Photo taken on Jan. 28, 2015 shows archaeologists taking protection measures of the Nanhai (South China Sea) No. 1 ship at the "Crystal Palace" at the Marine Silk Road Museum in Yangjiang, south China's Guangdong Province. After seven years of excavation, more than 60,000 porcelain artifacts from the Song Dynasty (960-1279) have been discovered on the ship, which had lain undersea for more than 800 years and was put into protection in the Marine Silk Road Museum after its salvage in 2007. (Xinhua/Liu Dawei)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Photo taken on Jan. 28, 2015 shows archaeologists registering a porcelain discovered on the Nanhai (South China Sea) No. 1 ship at the "Crystal Palace" at the Marine Silk Road Museum in Yangjiang, south China's Guangdong Province. After seven years of excavation, more than 60,000 porcelain artifacts from the Song Dynasty (960-1279) have been discovered on the ship, which had lain undersea for more than 800 years and was put into protection in the Marine Silk Road Museum after its salvage in 2007. (Xinhua/Liu Dawei)
> 
> 
> Source: English.news.cn"



In ancient time , Chinese goods were exported to many countries around the world. This artifacts were found there, is in consequence of storms in East Sea of Vietnam, and trading ships were sunk in this rock and reefs there.

This is meaningless arguments of Chinese propaganda.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## jhungary

Martian2 said:


> Use helicopters and aircraft to airlift personnel off the island. Ships will sail out to sea where the wave disturbance is small.
> 
> Damaged equipment can be replaced.
> 
> A possible mitigator is to build a seawall. Also, perhaps build some sandbars to slow a tsunami down.
> 
> In the end, a valuable military asset entails risk.
> 
> The Chinese SOSUS will be useful in giving warning to the island personnel ahead of time when an earthquake triggers a tsunami.
> 
> 
> 
> Oddly, you are the first person who does not understand that I'm comparing two military assets. An aircraft carrier carries jet fighters. Similarly, an island contains an airfield, jet fighters, missile batteries, radars, helicopters (with sonobuoys), ammunition, etc.
> 
> I was on Bloomberg News comment section for about three years. Often, I compared the four acres on a US aircraft carrier to China's unsinkable aircraft carrier of 9.6 million square kilometers. No one ever complained.
> 
> You are the first person who does not understand the analogy.



lol dude, a SAM and an Aircraft Carrier both were military asset, both were used to destroy enemy aircraft, can you please compare the both.

Just because you compare it on bloomberg and nobody complaint does not equal to that make any sense. Of course you can compare an apple to an orange anywhere, that does not mean the conparasion mean anything

And by the way, I have been fighting in the middle east before you have your Bloomsberg account, as if your present in bloomberg mean anything..

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Martian2

jhungary said:


> first time I ever heard of an comparasion of an Island to Aircraft Carrier, I dont know what @Martian2 is smoking but I want some of that...
> 
> An Island is not the same as an aircraft carrier, primarily because you can move an Aircraft Carrier but you cant move an Island.
> 
> Also an Island defence would only be a good initiative when you can defend them. Air, Land and Sea, and if you cant, then that would only be a giant graveyard for the defender. Simply because you would have nowhere to run...





jhungary said:


> lol dude, a SAM and an Aircraft Carrier both were military asset, both were used to destroy enemy aircraft, can you please compare the both.
> 
> Just because you compare it on bloomberg and nobody complaint does not equal to that make any sense. Of course you can compare an apple to an orange anywhere, that does not mean the conparasion mean anything
> 
> And by the way, I have been fighting in the middle east before you have your Bloomsberg account, as if your present in bloomberg mean anything..



You were a grunt. Big deal.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## jhungary

Martian2 said:


> You were a grunt. Big deal.



lol, i was an officer, not a grunt. 

By the way, it would make much more sense if you compare an airfield to an aircraft carrier, but you are talking about Island vs Aircraft Carrier. Not the same


----------



## Martian2

jhungary said:


> lol, i was an officer, not a grunt.
> 
> By the way, it would make much more sense if you compare an airfield to an aircraft carrier, but you are talking about Island vs Aircraft Carrier. Not the same



Give me a break. You're one of those people that love to argue endlessly over semantics. Gambit comes to mind.

The island in the citation clearly mentions an airfield. You are making a distinction without a difference and ignoring the obvious context. Why would I bother putting in the citation? It's obvious that I'm pointing out the military capability of the island/airfield.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## jhungary

Martian2 said:


> Give me a break. You're one of those people that love to argue endlessly over semantics. Gambit comes to mind.
> 
> The island in the citation clearly mentions an airfield. You are making a distinction without a difference and ignoring the obvious context. Why would I bother putting in the citation? It's because I'm pointing out the military capability of the island/airfield.



dude, you are not.

An country can and indeed have an airfield, so by your logic, i can compare China and US Aircraft carrier? lol

If you want to say an airfield, you say an airfield. But you did not, you compare building an island and an aircraft carrier.

and by the way, you also ignore my point i pointed out in the very first post, instead of focusing on this issue lol


----------



## Martian2

jhungary said:


> dude, you are not.
> 
> An country can and indeed have an airfield, so by your logic, i can compare China and US Aircraft carrier? lol
> 
> If you want to say an airfield, you say an airfield. But you did not, you compare building an island and an aircraft carrier.


Except for you, everybody knew that I wasn't referring to an island resort.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## jhungary

Martian2 said:


> Except for you, everybody knew that I wasn't referring to an island resort.



Can you yell me which lobe in this post the word "Airfield" exist?



> Dragon vs. Eagle: South China Sea balance of power
> 
> China is currently reclaiming seven islands with 600 acres of land in the South China Sea. In comparison, the United States has 11 aircraft carriers with a surface area of four acres each. In total, the U.S. has 44 acres.
> 
> The advantage of the U.S. 44 acres is its mobility. However, the disadvantage is those 44 acres can be sunk.
> 
> China's 600 acres are unsinkable. Also, China is busy building its own aircraft carriers to level the playing field.
> 
> In conclusion, China is winning the South China Sea stare-down. China is likely to reclaim islands beyond the seven currently. In three years, Chengdu J-20 heavy stealth fighters will augment Chinese firepower in the South China Sea. Around 2020, we may see the emergence of Chinese Nimitz-class supercarriers.


----------



## Martian2

jhungary said:


> Can you yell me which lobe in this post the word "Airfield" exist?


The citation only had one paragraph, but you were too lazy to read it. I've underlined the relevant phrase in red. Can you read it now?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## jhungary

Martian2 said:


> The citation only had one paragraph, but you were too lazy to read it. I've underlined the relevant phrase in red. Can you read it now?



lol dude, then that was not exactly "you said" in this situation now aint it...lol

By the way, I wasnt looking at your post to begin with, not that I am lazy or anything, but simply my original conment was not a direct reply to you.

The parameter is the same, if you want to compae an airfield, you would have said an airfield, lol the fact that you are compareing an Island to an aircraft carrier remain unchange


----------



## Martian2

I give up. If you don't understand that seven Chinese militarized islands in the South China Sea shift the balance of military power, nothing I write will convince you.

For everyone else, I have included my original posts below and you can make up your own mind whether China is gaining the upper hand in the South China Sea.
----------

*Dragon vs. Eagle: South China Sea balance of power*

China is currently reclaiming seven islands with 600 acres of land in the South China Sea. In comparison, the United States has 11 aircraft carriers with a surface area of four acres each. In total, the U.S. has 44 acres.

The advantage of the U.S. 44 acres is its mobility. However, the disadvantage is those 44 acres can be sunk.

China's 600 acres are unsinkable. Also, China is busy building its own aircraft carriers to level the playing field.

In conclusion, China is winning the South China Sea stare-down. China is likely to reclaim islands beyond the seven currently. In three years, Chengdu J-20 heavy stealth fighters will augment Chinese firepower in the South China Sea. Around 2020, we may see the emergence of Chinese Nimitz-class supercarriers.
----------

McCain Points To ‘Dramatic Change’ In Chinese-Built Islands | Breaking Defense - Defense industry news, analysis and commentary





----------

*China is building an anti-stealth Integrated Air Defense Network in the South China Sea*

Imagery shows progress of Chinese land building across Spratlys - IHS Jane's 360

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## 帅的一匹

NiceGuy said:


> Those islands r not important to VN, we dont need to argue wt a friend like Phil in the court. We may share the isls wt all ASEAN friends, but not China


Lie

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zero_wing

wanglaokan said:


> Lie



this coming from Imperialist Maoist funny


----------



## Martian2

jhungary said:


> lol...honestly, he is living in his own little world
> 
> *What he said has no point, building Islands (Or even an airfield on an Island) cannot compare to having an Aircraft Carrier in the region, for a simple reason, they can't move.*
> 
> But obliviously, he is thinking, no, because he has been doing this kind of comparison in Bloomberg, which he think made him an expert....lol



Do you even bother reading other people's posts? What does that say in bold (see below)?

Firstly, you complained that I did not make it clear that the islands had airfields. It was in the single-paragraph news citation. Also, it is common knowledge. Except for you, no one on this forum had that misconception.

Secondly, you are now sharing the insight that islands don't move! No way Sherlock.
----------

*Dragon vs. Eagle: South China Sea balance of power*

China is currently reclaiming seven islands with 600 acres of land in the South China Sea. In comparison, the United States has 11 aircraft carriers with a surface area of four acres each. In total, the U.S. has 44 acres.

*The advantage of the U.S. 44 acres is its mobility.* However, the disadvantage is those 44 acres can be sunk.

China's 600 acres are unsinkable. Also, China is busy building its own aircraft carriers to level the playing field.

In conclusion, China is winning the South China Sea stare-down. China is likely to reclaim islands beyond the seven currently. In three years, Chengdu J-20 heavy stealth fighters will augment Chinese firepower in the South China Sea. Around 2020, we may see the emergence of Chinese Nimitz-class supercarriers.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## jhungary

Martian2 said:


> Do you even bother reading other people's posts? What does that say in bold (see below)?
> 
> Firstly, you complained that I did not make it clear that the islands had airfields. It was in the single-paragraph news citation. Also, it is common knowledge. Except for you, no one on this forum had that misconception.
> 
> Secondly, you are now sharing the insight that islands don't move! No way Sherlock.
> ----------
> 
> *Dragon vs. Eagle: South China Sea balance of power*
> 
> China is currently reclaiming seven islands with 600 acres of land in the South China Sea. In comparison, the United States has 11 aircraft carriers with a surface area of four acres each. In total, the U.S. has 44 acres.
> 
> *The advantage of the U.S. 44 acres is its mobility.* However, the disadvantage is those 44 acres can be sunk.
> 
> China's 600 acres are unsinkable. Also, China is busy building its own aircraft carriers to level the playing field.
> 
> In conclusion, China is winning the South China Sea stare-down. China is likely to reclaim islands beyond the seven currently. In three years, Chengdu J-20 heavy stealth fighters will augment Chinese firepower in the South China Sea. Around 2020, we may see the emergence of Chinese Nimitz-class supercarriers.



dude, do you also remember *I said in the very beginning, Having an Island is not a good Idea if you cannot defend it? Because unlike an Aircraft carrier, if you cannot defend an Island, you cannot move the island somewhere else but having your defender dies in the Island.*

I am saying this from the beginning of this post and yet you choose to ignore it time and again, 6 post in, you have not even comment once on my main point of why having an Island is different than having and Carrier and only go blah blah blah of me being a grunt and you have been on Bloomberg for a long time....

I think you are the one whom don't bother looking at other people post, yet you turn around and accuse me of being what you did lol, there is a reason why member here almost acknowledge I have a vast knowledge of defence matter and you are just a joke. You probably need to listen more and talk less.


----------



## Martian2

jhungary said:


> dude, do you also remember *I said in the very beginning, Having an Island is not a good Idea if you cannot defend it? Because unlike an Aircraft carrier, if you cannot defend an Island, you cannot move the island somewhere else but having your defender dies in the Island.*
> 
> I am saying this from the beginning of this post and yet you choose to ignore it time and again, 6 post in, you have not even comment once on my main point of why having an Island is different than having and Carrier and only go blah blah blah of me being a grunt and you have been on Bloomberg for a long time....
> 
> I think you are the one whom don't bother looking at other people post, yet you turn around and accuse me of being what you did lol, there is a reason why member here almost acknowledge I have a vast knowledge of defence matter and you are just a joke. You probably need to listen more and talk less.



Try reading my other citation about China's JY-26 anti-stealth radar. You should also consider China's ASBM and YJ-18 Aegis-killer missile. The South China Sea is also crawling with numerous Chinese submarines. Additionally, J-11Bs patrol the South China Sea. I have also previously mentioned the use of Chinese CM-506KG glide bombs to attack capital naval ships.

Who said China can't defend the South China Sea islands? You? Don't make me laugh. No one agrees with you.

If you have a convincing and well-argued citation from a think-tank like RAND, I'll be happy to read it. Otherwise, stop making ridiculous claims like China can't defend its South China Sea islands.

In an earlier post, I argued China had the shortest logistical lines and a massive naval base at Sanya.

I had also pointed out that China has a SOSUS in its bordering seas and that conveys a huge advantage in detection of enemy submarines and naval ships.

The huge Chinese islands allow the emplacement of HQ-9 and S-300 missile batteries. The Chinese islands will be well-defended.

In light of the Chinese armaments, air power, SOSUS, and shortest logistical lines, the probability favors China over a few aircraft carrier groups.
----------
Since you seem to be ignorant, I suggest you read the following article from the American Enterprise Institute.

China's dangerous South China Sea challenge » AEI

"Chinese motives for militarizing the Spratlys, however, may not be purely defensive. *Airstrips, helipads, gun emplacements, supply stores, ship berths—when built some 700 miles from the Chinese coastline, these are enablers of power projection.*...

*Put simply, the creation of new islands in the South China Sea playing host to Chinese military forces will create new challenges for military planners in...*t*he United States.*"

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## jhungary

Martian2 said:


> Try reading my other citation about China's JY-26 anti-stealth radar. You should also consider China's ASBM and YJ-18 Aegis-killer missile. The South China Sea is also crawling with numerous Chinese submarines. Additionally, J-11Bs patrol the South China Sea. I have also previously mentioned the use of Chinese CM-506KG glide bombs to attack capital naval ships.
> 
> Who said China can't defend the South China Sea islands? You? Don't make me laugh. No one agrees with you.
> 
> If you have a convincing and well-argued citation from a think-tank like RAND, I'll be happy to read it. Otherwise, stop making ridiculous claims like China can't defend its South China Sea islands.
> 
> In an earlier post, I argued China had the shortest logistical lines and a massive naval base at Sanya.
> 
> I had also pointed out that China has a SOSUS in its bordering seas and that conveys a huge advantage in detection of enemy submarines and naval ships.
> 
> The huge Chinese islands allow the emplacement of HQ-9 and S-300 missile batteries. The Chinese islands will be well-defended.
> 
> In light of the Chinese armaments, air power, SOSUS, and shortest logistical lines, the probability favors China over a few aircraft carrier groups.



You forgot about EMP too. Yeah, China can just use it and expect anyone and everyone to just sit there and have their feet in their mouth, lol.

*Who are you for me to convince you?* You are an nobody here, and RAND?? I used to worked with the NSA, I KNOW people who working for RAND, and I have some friend actually working in RAND think tank got paid 200K a year, you want me to send them your BS point so they can laugh at you in an official RAND capacity??, not to mention you are an nobody in real life. So what did I get if I can convince you that I am right and you are wrong. LOL

For people like you think that War is just a piece of cake and defending an Island is no problem, *regardless on how much troop you can feed and how many troop you can support, logistic, combat power, defence ability curve, loss of strength gradient were all not considered but you tell me some hardware you got can surely defend your little island?? LOL, you got to be kidding me.*

Do you even know how war was fought?? And in the Military Academy and OCS (YES THE REAL DEAL) we were taught that unless you can be sure logistic support can be established and you have consider all the factor that you can indeed support an island, *NO ONE*, I say again, *NO O*NE should consider defending an island and rather should evacuate it. Do you even know why??

If you cannot convince people here that you are something, it would be a big embarrassment for you to put yourselves in the same level as *RAND *lol. Tell me, how many people here think you are seriously a man with defence knowledge??

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## 70U63

Island = unsinkable aircraft carrier

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cirr

Subi Island 27.07.2015：












Another airport in the middle of nowhere in the making。

*沁园春 改造自然气势弘

改造自然，铸造辉煌，气势恢弘。看南泉北调，东输西气；北煤南运，西电东通。
全局一棋，筹谋善用，决策英明百世功。龙头舞，把九州带动，百业兴隆。 
中华天下为公，见亿万愚公豪气冲。让黄河水碧，长江坝起；火车渡海，船箭升空。
建设文明，繁荣经济，全面小康日子红。今朝好，是民安国泰，沐浴春风。*
*
*

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## 帅的一匹

Zero_wing said:


> Since when are you maoist imperialist smart?


always



jhungary said:


> dude, do you also remember *I said in the very beginning, Having an Island is not a good Idea if you cannot defend it? Because unlike an Aircraft carrier, if you cannot defend an Island, you cannot move the island somewhere else but having your defender dies in the Island.*
> 
> I am saying this from the beginning of this post and yet you choose to ignore it time and again, 6 post in, you have not even comment once on my main point of why having an Island is different than having and Carrier and only go blah blah blah of me being a grunt and you have been on Bloomberg for a long time....
> 
> I think you are the one whom don't bother looking at other people post, yet you turn around and accuse me of being what you did lol, there is a reason why member here almost acknowledge I have a vast knowledge of defence matter and you are just a joke. You probably need to listen more and talk less.


tell me how we can't defend it?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## jhungary

wanglaokan said:


> always
> 
> 
> tell me how we can't defend it?



I never said anything about could China defend their Island, read my post again, all of my post said *IF * you can defend your Island.

Not having seen the Island defend myself, nor have a parameter that who Chinese are defending the Island from, there are no way to tell IF Chinese can defend the island.

But anyone have attend any Military College will tell you, Island fight is notoriously favor the attacker, not the defender. For 1 simple reason,the defender have to defend all side of the parameter, but the attacker only need to attack one. If an attack is execute perfectly, no Island is defensible from attack.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Martian2

At Wanglaokan, JHungary is the master of excuses. If you read the past posts in this thread, you'll see that I couldn't get a straight answer out of him. He's constantly redefining the topic.

I suggest you don't waste any time on him. All he does is chant Iraq, NSA, etc. Anything that is unrelated to the South China Sea. If you'll notice, he's mumbling something about the Military College. This guy is living in his own world.
----------

*Forty years of US neutrality on the South China Sea issue*

For those that are keeping track, the latest US pronouncement of neutrality on the South China Sea occurred on December 7, 2014. From 1974 (see chart below) to 2014, that's 40 years of US neutrality. _Happy 40th anniversary everybody!_

Beijing's and Washington's Dueling South China Sea Papers | Center for Strategic and International Studies

*"Dec 9, 2014 - Two days earlier the U.S. State Department released a long-awaited ... islands in the South China Sea, reiterating the U.S. position of neutrality.*"
----------

China and America: A Superpower Showdown in Asia | The National Interest

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## 帅的一匹

jhungary said:


> I never said anything about could China defend their Island, read my post again, all of my post said *IF * you can defend your Island.
> 
> Not having seen the Island defend myself, nor have a parameter that who Chinese are defending the Island from, there are no way to tell IF Chinese can defend the island.
> 
> But anyone have attend any Military College will tell you, Island fight is notoriously favor the attacker, not the defender. For 1 simple reason,the defender have to defend all side of the parameter, but the attacker only need to attack one. If an attack is execute perfectly, no Island is defensible from attack.


those Islands are ours, even USA won't dare to touch it. No one can or afford to mess with China in our doorway. we are very confident about it. The artificial Island setup is the prelude of ADIZ in SCS.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Keel

cirr said:


> Subi Island 27.07.2015：
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another airport in the middle of nowhere in the making。
> 
> *沁园春 改造自然气势弘
> 
> 改造自然，铸造辉煌，气势恢弘。看南泉北调，东输西气；北煤南运，西电东通。
> 全局一棋，筹谋善用，决策英明百世功。龙头舞，把九州带动，百业兴隆。
> 中华天下为公，见亿万愚公豪气冲。让黄河水碧，长江坝起；火车渡海，船箭升空。
> 建设文明，繁荣经济，全面小康日子红。今朝好，是民安国泰，沐浴春风。
> 
> *



Wow what a poem that elegantly summarises our aspirations and achievements so far though I must admit it is far too deep in thoughts that the naive China-bashers can understand, let alone war strategies

When the whole SCS grand project is completed, I am wondering what rank should it fit in as the ____th Wonder of the World!

Keep going China!

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## BoQ77

wanglaokan said:


> those Islands are ours, even USA won't dare to touch it. No one can or afford to mess with China in our doorway. we are very confident about it. The artificial Island setup is the prelude of ADIZ in SCS.



If you know that "ADIZ in SCS" is what everyone hate, except Chinese, you wouldn't like to post that


----------



## ahojunk

Progress made in South China Sea code of conduct consultations: spokesperson - Xinhua | English.news.cn

Progress made in South China Sea code of conduct consultations: spokesperson

BEIJING, Jan. 30 (Xinhua) -- Consultations between China and ASEAN countries on Code of Conduct (COC) in the South China Sea have made positive progress, the Foreign Ministry said Friday.

All sides have agreed to complete the COC on an early date, spokesperson Hua Chunying told a routine press briefing, adding that they also reached important consensus on "early harvest".

Hua's remarks came after a meeting of ASEAN foreign ministers in Malaysia.

China and the ASEAN countries are working to comprehensively and effectively implement the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea (DOC) and steadily push forward consultations on the COC, said Hua.

Formulation of the COC is a component of implementation of the DOC, according to Hua.

Signed in 2002, the DOC outlined the most important principles in the management of disputes on the South China Sea.

Hua called on relevant sides to enhance cooperation so as to create favorable conditions for consultations on the COC.
.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ahojunk

_I was surprised to see this article in SCMP, as they are generally biased against China. However, this is in their "Comment › Insight & Opinion" section.
I agree with every sentence in this report. I often wonder why China doesn't display the same kind of displeasure towards Malaysia. Of course, Malaysia seems to be doing things the right way, as far as China is concerned.
_
------------------------
Provoking China on South China Sea issues is a dangerous tactic | South China Morning Post

*Provoking China on South China Sea issues is a dangerous tactic*
Mark Valencia says those involved in South China Sea disputes with China must stop their hypocritical condemnations if they really want a peaceful resolution

Mark Valencia
PUBLISHED : Monday, 02 February, 2015, 5:01am
UPDATED : Monday, 02 February, 2015, 5:01am





_Cornering China could have dire consequences for the region. More vision and wisdom are needed by all concerned._

The governments of the Philippines, Vietnam and the US have, in recent months, lashed out at China over its behaviour in the South China Sea. This includes reclaiming land around some of its occupied but disputed features in the Spratlys; violating the self-restraint provision of the 2002 declaration of conduct agreed on by China and Asean; undertaking unilateral activities like hydrocarbon exploration in disputed maritime areas, preventing others from doing so; and, in general, bullying the smaller claimants.

Many analysts and the national media have joined the fray by supporting their countries' positions. Given the regional security implications, it is time to inject some balance into this narrative.

*This is not a defence of China's actions; some of the criticism is deserved.* Like many countries, China's maritime policies and behaviour have been a mix of good and bad, even ugly. But some criticism by governments and their nationalistic analysts and media is exaggerated or biased as they seek to "blame and shame" China and demonise it as an arrogant bully. Worse, some of it is so hypocritical as to be ludicrous.

First, all the claims to sovereignty over the Spratly Islands have weaknesses when measured against the international standard of continuous, effective occupation, control and administration, as well as acquiescence by other claimants.

Second, the *Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia and Taiwan have undertaken reclamation on disputed features they occupy and have built airstrips and ports.* *Why have they not been criticised?*

Third, the Philippines has publicly and formally criticised China for its "historical" claim in the South China Sea. But it had a similarly questionable historical claim there until 2009 (the so-called Treaty Limits) as well as a claim to islands, seabed and waters within Kalayaan. In fact, these claims have not been formally rescinded.

Fourth, all the other claimants have undertaken unilateral activities such as oil exploration, fishing, arrest of foreign fishermen, and scientific research in areas claimed by others, including China. Why are their activities not a violation of the declaration of conduct's "self-restraint" provision?

Fifth, China argues that the Philippines and now Vietnam are violating the declaration's provision that says "the parties undertake to resolve their territorial and jurisdictional disputes by peaceful means, without resorting to the threat or use of force through friendly consultations and negotiations by sovereign states _directly concerned" _(emphasis added). In China's view, they have "internationalised" the issue, the Philippines by filing a formal complaint with an international arbitration panel, and both by publicly appealing for the support of outside powers.

The US is involved because of its alliance with the Philippines and the fact it is now trying to draw closer, militarily, to Vietnam. Indeed, it may even provide Vietnam with maritime surveillance aircraft that it could use to help keep tabs on China's activities. This would obviously not be considered a friendly act by China.

Washington often urges Beijing to obey "international law" but has itself not joined some 166 countries that have ratified the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea, or several other popular international treaties. Referring to the South China Sea situation, US Assistant Secretary of State for East Asian Affairs Daniel Russel has asserted that "bigger nations cannot bully the small". Perhaps *he has forgotten the history of US relations vis-à-vis Cuba, Nicaragua, and many others*.

Last year, Vietnam's confrontation with China over its oil rig provided an opportunity for anti-China Vietnamese to vent their anger. One result was the deadly anti-Chinese riots. In turn, Vietnamese policy and actions have stimulated Chinese antipathy and distrust. This has led to increased strategic thinking about the possibility of Vietnam becoming a pawn in US-China rivalry for dominance in the region. *Vietnam's pandering to the US is* *disingenuous, distasteful and unworthy, and shows a lack of understanding of US strategy for the region as well as disrespect for the millions of Vietnamese who suffered and died* *to reject US influence*.

As Vietnam's leaders should well know, China has been - and always will be - an unpredictable giant on its northern and maritime borders. In stark contrast, the US presence in the region is comparatively fresh, fickle and probably fleeting.

The moral is that countries (and their supporters) who live in glass houses should not throw stones - at least not before boarding up their own windows. They need to remove their nationalistic blinkers, be realistic and think more long term and in the interests of the region and political centrality of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations in security.

Otherwise, they could well be contributing to the region again becoming a pawn in a Great Power chess game. Cornering and publicly embarrassing China on South China Sea issues could have dire consequences for the region. More vision, wisdom and balance are needed by all concerned.

_Mark J. Valencia is an adjunct senior scholar at the National Institute for South China Sea Studies, Haikou, China_
.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## dichoi

Paracels is Islands of Vietnam. China is illegally robbed with force in 1974.






Mark stone statue of sovereignty of Vietnam on Hoang Sa.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cirr

1st glimpse of *CCG 3106*







A new force in the SCS。

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cirr

Meijidao（Mischief Reef Island）03.03.2015 





















When all is done and over(?)

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Zero_wing

Good your putting it on file the destorrying of shoals and corals on the net good job china i guess no one told you guys the difference between natural and artificial but knowing your patriortic education this good because the party said so.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ahojunk

cirr said:


> Meijidao（Mischief Reef Island）03.03.2015
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When all is done and over(?)



@cirr,
Thank you for all these great pictures.

And I suggest to all to ignore the post immediately after it as it is just sour grapes.

@cirr, please keep these picture coming. I look forward to their progress and development.

How ironic, China is having some mischief  on "Mischief Island", lol.
.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## terranMarine

more oil rig deployments should also be expected

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## NiceGuy

ahojunk said:


> _I was surprised to see this article in SCMP, as they are generally biased against China. However, this is in their "Comment › Insight & Opinion" section.
> I agree with every sentence in this report. I often wonder why China doesn't display the same kind of displeasure towards Malaysia. Of course, Malaysia seems to be doing things the right way, as far as China is concerned.
> _
> ------------------------
> Provoking China on South China Sea issues is a dangerous tactic | South China Morning Post
> 
> *Provoking China on South China Sea issues is a dangerous tactic*
> Mark Valencia says those involved in South China Sea disputes with China must stop their hypocritical condemnations if they really want a peaceful resolution
> 
> Mark Valencia
> PUBLISHED : Monday, 02 February, 2015, 5:01am
> UPDATED : Monday, 02 February, 2015, 5:01am
> 
> View attachment 198342
> 
> _Cornering China could have dire consequences for the region. More vision and wisdom are needed by all concerned._
> 
> The governments of the Philippines, Vietnam and the US have, in recent months, lashed out at China over its behaviour in the South China Sea. This includes reclaiming land around some of its occupied but disputed features in the Spratlys; violating the self-restraint provision of the 2002 declaration of conduct agreed on by China and Asean; undertaking unilateral activities like hydrocarbon exploration in disputed maritime areas, preventing others from doing so; and, in general, bullying the smaller claimants.
> 
> Many analysts and the national media have joined the fray by supporting their countries' positions. Given the regional security implications, it is time to inject some balance into this narrative.
> 
> *This is not a defence of China's actions; some of the criticism is deserved.* Like many countries, China's maritime policies and behaviour have been a mix of good and bad, even ugly. But some criticism by governments and their nationalistic analysts and media is exaggerated or biased as they seek to "blame and shame" China and demonise it as an arrogant bully. Worse, some of it is so hypocritical as to be ludicrous.
> 
> First, all the claims to sovereignty over the Spratly Islands have weaknesses when measured against the international standard of continuous, effective occupation, control and administration, as well as acquiescence by other claimants.
> 
> Second, the *Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia and Taiwan have undertaken reclamation on disputed features they occupy and have built airstrips and ports.* *Why have they not been criticised?*
> 
> Third, the Philippines has publicly and formally criticised China for its "historical" claim in the South China Sea. But it had a similarly questionable historical claim there until 2009 (the so-called Treaty Limits) as well as a claim to islands, seabed and waters within Kalayaan. In fact, these claims have not been formally rescinded.
> 
> Fourth, all the other claimants have undertaken unilateral activities such as oil exploration, fishing, arrest of foreign fishermen, and scientific research in areas claimed by others, including China. Why are their activities not a violation of the declaration of conduct's "self-restraint" provision?
> 
> Fifth, China argues that the Philippines and now Vietnam are violating the declaration's provision that says "the parties undertake to resolve their territorial and jurisdictional disputes by peaceful means, without resorting to the threat or use of force through friendly consultations and negotiations by sovereign states _directly concerned" _(emphasis added). In China's view, they have "internationalised" the issue, the Philippines by filing a formal complaint with an international arbitration panel, and both by publicly appealing for the support of outside powers.
> 
> The US is involved because of its alliance with the Philippines and the fact it is now trying to draw closer, militarily, to Vietnam. Indeed, it may even provide Vietnam with maritime surveillance aircraft that it could use to help keep tabs on China's activities. This would obviously not be considered a friendly act by China.
> 
> Washington often urges Beijing to obey "international law" but has itself not joined some 166 countries that have ratified the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea, or several other popular international treaties. Referring to the South China Sea situation, US Assistant Secretary of State for East Asian Affairs Daniel Russel has asserted that "bigger nations cannot bully the small". Perhaps *he has forgotten the history of US relations vis-à-vis Cuba, Nicaragua, and many others*.
> 
> Last year, Vietnam's confrontation with China over its oil rig provided an opportunity for anti-China Vietnamese to vent their anger. One result was the deadly anti-Chinese riots. In turn, Vietnamese policy and actions have stimulated Chinese antipathy and distrust. This has led to increased strategic thinking about the possibility of Vietnam becoming a pawn in US-China rivalry for dominance in the region. *Vietnam's pandering to the US is* *disingenuous, distasteful and unworthy, and shows a lack of understanding of US strategy for the region as well as disrespect for the millions of Vietnamese who suffered and died* *to reject US influence*.
> 
> As Vietnam's leaders should well know, China has been - and always will be - an unpredictable giant on its northern and maritime borders. In stark contrast, the US presence in the region is comparatively fresh, fickle and probably fleeting.
> 
> The moral is that countries (and their supporters) who live in glass houses should not throw stones - at least not before boarding up their own windows. They need to remove their nationalistic blinkers, be realistic and think more long term and in the interests of the region and political centrality of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations in security.
> 
> Otherwise, they could well be contributing to the region again becoming a pawn in a Great Power chess game. Cornering and publicly embarrassing China on South China Sea issues could have dire consequences for the region. More vision, wisdom and balance are needed by all concerned.
> 
> _Mark J. Valencia is an adjunct senior scholar at the National Institute for South China Sea Studies, Haikou, China_
> .


He got well paid from China for this article, if he thinks China is right, then pls tell China to debate abt the issue wt VN in the international court and let the Whole World can see who is right, who is wrong

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## yusheng



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## BoQ77

*Pentagon official wary of China’s reclamation work in S. China Sea*
March 5, 2015 | By Daily Witness Staff | 

A senior official of the U.S. Defense Departmentexpressed concern Wednesday over the speed at whichChina is undertaking land reclamation work to claim a number of islands in disputed areas of the South China Sea.

“Chinese reclamation stands out,” David Shear, assistant secretary of defense for Asian and Pacific security affairs, told reporters, adding, “It’s something that we’re very concerned about.”

A number of claimants to features in the South China Sea have been conducting land reclamation activities over the past year, Shear said.

“China has certainly added more land to features it occupies over the last five months than other claimants have added there over the last five years,” Shear said.

While the Pentagon official did not go into specifics, China is involved in territorial disputes in the South China Sea with countries such as the Philippinesand Vietnam and is building various facilities to claim the features, including construction of an aircraft runway, despite objections by other claimants.

Shear warned China against building military facilities on the reclaimed features, saying, “It will have potentially negative effects on security and stability in the region.”

Before the Pentagon, Shear held posts including ambassador to Vietnam during a foreign service career of more than 30 years.

Defense Secretary Ashton Carter, who took office last month succeeding Chuck Hagel, is planning to make a trip to Asian countries “as soon as he can,” Shear said, without giving any time frame.

The possible destinations include Japan, South Korea, China and Southeast Asian countries, Shear said.

In Japan, Carter would discuss with Japanese officials “ways under the revised guidelines that we can further strengthen U.S.-Japan alliance cooperation,” Shear said.

He was referring to ongoing bilateral work on revising the guidelines on cooperation between the Japanese Self-Defense Forces and the U.S. military for the first time since 1997.

Tokyo and Washington are hoping to release the new guidelines in the first half of 2015.

==Kyodo


----------



## ahojunk

ha ha. The Americans are up to their usual tricks again by continually sowing discord.

However, the Viets and Pinoys are stupid enough to be used as proxies by the Americans.

And they are going to be badly injured just like ants are when two elephants fight.

If you care to notice, the Malaysians are smart. They know how to play the game.
------------



yusheng said:


>



Wow! Subi Island is now 1.18 square km and growing.

Well done, China. Keep the good work going!.


Image of Chigua Island on 24 Jan 2015.

On the top, we can see that the new building dwarfs the original outpost. The new building is multiple storeys.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## initial_d

Th


ahojunk said:


> ha ha. The Americans are up to their usual tricks again by continually sowing discord.
> 
> However, the Viets and Pinoys are stupid enough to be used as proxies by the Americans.
> 
> And they are going to be badly injured just like ants are when two elephants fight.
> 
> If you care to notice, the Malaysians are smart. They know how to play the game.
> ------------
> 
> 
> 
> Wow! Subi Island is now 1.18 square km and growing.
> 
> Well done, China. Keep the good work going!.
> 
> 
> Image of Chigua Island on 24 Jan 2015.
> 
> On the top, we can see that the new building dwarfs the original outpost. The new building is multiple storeys.
> 
> View attachment 199407


This is why i dont buy chinese stuff, knowing this people act as a bully to its neighbours....

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Martian2

BoQ77 said:


> *Pentagon official wary of China’s reclamation work in S. China Sea*
> March 5, 2015 | By Daily Witness Staff |
> 
> A senior official of the U.S. Defense Departmentexpressed concern Wednesday over the speed at whichChina is undertaking land reclamation work to claim a number of islands in disputed areas of the South China Sea.
> 
> “Chinese reclamation stands out,” David Shear, assistant secretary of defense for Asian and Pacific security affairs, told reporters, adding, “It’s something that we’re very concerned about.”
> 
> A number of claimants to features in the South China Sea have been conducting land reclamation activities over the past year, Shear said.
> 
> “China has certainly added more land to features it occupies over the last five months than other claimants have added there over the last five years,” Shear said.
> 
> While the Pentagon official did not go into specifics, China is involved in territorial disputes in the South China Sea with countries such as the Philippinesand Vietnam and is building various facilities to claim the features, including construction of an aircraft runway, despite objections by other claimants.
> 
> Shear warned China against building military facilities on the reclaimed features, saying, “It will have potentially negative effects on security and stability in the region.”
> 
> Before the Pentagon, Shear held posts including ambassador to Vietnam during a foreign service career of more than 30 years.
> 
> Defense Secretary Ashton Carter, who took office last month succeeding Chuck Hagel, is planning to make a trip to Asian countries “as soon as he can,” Shear said, without giving any time frame.
> 
> The possible destinations include Japan, South Korea, China and Southeast Asian countries, Shear said.
> 
> In Japan, Carter would discuss with Japanese officials “ways under the revised guidelines that we can further strengthen U.S.-Japan alliance cooperation,” Shear said.
> 
> He was referring to ongoing bilateral work on revising the guidelines on cooperation between the Japanese Self-Defense Forces and the U.S. military for the first time since 1997.
> 
> Tokyo and Washington are hoping to release the new guidelines in the first half of 2015.
> 
> ==Kyodo



The US is a bystander. It keeps proclaiming neutrality. In the meantime, China keeps changing the facts on the ground. More jet fighters. More destroyers. More submarines in the South China Sea. Also, more airfields.



initial_d said:


> Th
> 
> This is why i dont buy chinese stuff, knowing this people act as a bully to its neighbours....



Indonesia is probably China's 50th largest trading partner. China won't even notice if all trade with Indonesia was stopped. The Chinese trade surplus is currently $60 billion per month (or $2 billion per day).

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## yusheng

Foreign Ministry Spokesperson Hong Lei's Regular Press Conference on February 27, 2015

Q: Director of the US National Intelligence James Clapper said at a Senate Armed Services Committee hearing that China is stationing ships and conducting land reclamation activities in the South China Sea, and the US is concerned with relevant activities. What is China' response to that?

A: China's position on the South China Sea issue is clear and consistent, and we have been acting in a restrained and responsible way. What China has been doing on its own islands and reefs and in its own waters is lawful, justifiable and reasonable, and other countries have no right to make unfounded accusations. We hope the US side can honor its commitments, mind what it says and does, and act in a way that is conducive to the development of China-US relations and regional peace and stability.


Foreign Ministry Spokesperson Hua Chunying's Regular Press Conference on March 3, 2015

Q: The Vietnamese side has protested against China's construction activities in the Nansha Islands. What is China's response to this?

A: China holds a clear and consistent stance on the South China Sea issue. China's normal construction activities on our own islands and in our own waters are lawful, reasonable and justifiable. We hope that relevant party can take a calm view on this.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Martian2

yusheng said:


> Foreign Ministry Spokesperson Hong Lei's Regular Press Conference on February 27, 2015
> 
> Q: Director of the US National Intelligence James Clapper said at a Senate Armed Services Committee hearing that China is stationing ships and conducting land reclamation activities in the South China Sea, and the US is concerned with relevant activities. What is China' response to that?
> 
> A: China's position on the South China Sea issue is clear and consistent, and we have been acting in a restrained and responsible way. What China has been doing on its own islands and reefs and in its own waters is lawful, justifiable and reasonable, and other countries have no right to make unfounded accusations. We hope the US side can honor its commitments, mind what it says and does, and act in a way that is conducive to the development of China-US relations and regional peace and stability.
> 
> 
> Foreign Ministry Spokesperson Hua Chunying's Regular Press Conference on March 3, 2015
> 
> Q: The Vietnamese side has protested against China's construction activities in the Nansha Islands. What is China's response to this?
> 
> A: China holds a clear and consistent stance on the South China Sea issue. China's normal construction activities on our own islands and in our own waters are lawful, reasonable and justifiable. We hope that relevant party can take a calm view on this.



*Business as Usual*

This is business as usual. China reclaims islands, builds an armada, and basically does whatever it feels like in the South China Sea.

The US goes through the motions of holding meetings with Vietnam and the Philippines, issues "concerns" about Chinese activities, flies a spy plane over the South China Sea, and ultimately let's China do whatever it wants in the South China Sea.

Forum member BoQ77 has been very diligent in chronicling every American press release, but who cares? It's meaningless and only empty words. The same empty words were of no help to Georgia.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Rechoice

yusheng said:


> Foreign Ministry Spokesperson Hua Chunying's Regular Press Conference on March 3, 2015
> 
> Q: The Vietnamese side has protested against China's construction activities in the Nansha Islands. What is China's response to this?
> 
> A: China holds a clear and consistent stance on the South China Sea issue. China's normal construction activities on our own islands and in our own waters are lawful, reasonable and justifiable. We hope that relevant party can take a calm view on this.


----------



## Zero_wing

Again the chinese maoist paid poster here as again failed to prove their claims and they should not because this not a forum simply they creating other pathetic rants


----------



## Martian2

*China's military budget: $145 BILLION. US military aid to Vietnam is non-existent.*

US military aid to Vietnam is a miserly $18 million. That's roughly 1/10,000th of China's military budget.

It's obvious to everyone that the US is treating Vietnam and the Philippines as a joke. How else can you explain the ridiculously tiny $18 million military aid to Vietnam and $40 million to the Philippines?
----------

*Meager $18 million US military aid to Vietnam*

US Offers Vietnam Massive Aid Package To Boost Coast Guard - The American Interest






----------

*Miserly $40 million US military aid to the Philippines*

US Pledges $40 Million in Military Aid to Philippines

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Zero_wing

Wow trying to make a wage nice try typical chinese paid maoist


----------



## Martian2

*China's military power in the South China Sea and the US response*

China has at least 600 modern fourth-generation fighter aircraft (J-10A, J-10B, J-11A, J-11B, Su-27, Su-30, J-15, and J-16).

Additionally, China has:

1 Aircraft Carrier (Liaoning)
25 Destroyers (Type 052, Type 052B, Type 052C, Type 052D, and a few older ships)
47 Frigates (Type 054A and some older ships)
23 Corvettes (Type 056 and some older ships)
70 Submarines (Type 093 Shang SSN, Type 094 Jin SSBN, Type 091 Han SSN, Type 092 Xia SSBN, Type 041 Yuan SSK with AIP, Type 039 Song, Kilos, and Mings)

*In response to the Chinese Armada, the US provides...5 patrol boats to Vietnam!

I can't stop laughing.* What difference will 5 patrol boats make? A destroyer's main gun can destroy all 5 patrol boats in under 10 seconds.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Cossack25A1

So what if it is only $40 million from the US?

Heck, with Japan now easing their arms export, we could likely procure arms from them with cheaper prices compared to US-made weapons. Other than that, we could also look for other sources of weapons here in South East Asia as well as look at South Korea for weapons.

It is also a wonder why China has massive arms program if the Chinese are confident they can "exterminate" the Viets and Pinoys.


----------



## Keel

When will these poor people leave the rusty junk yard on humantarian grounds?

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## ahojunk

*There is a saying, "If you can't beat them, then join them."*






I went over some of my notes. There are likely to be airstrips on Meiji (Mischief), Huayang (Cuarteron), Zhubi (Subi) and Yongshu (Fiery Cross) Islands. Looking at this map, you can see that these are the most logical positions. The Chinese have a grand plan and they are executing this plan. Looking at the record of the past 30+ years, I wouldn't bet against China. They have a very capable government whether we like it or not.

So, my advice to the Viets and Pinoys is to ignore the Americans' noise, forego their puny $18 million and $40 million aid and start working and cooperating with China. The benefits of cooperation is definitely more than these puny amount of aid. The Chinese are not really interested in your small piece of dirt in the SCS but they are more concern for their security. History has shown time and time again, the seas within their first island chain is very important to their security and sovereignty.

The Malaysians are very smart. Follow what they are doing and you will be alright. You don't have to believe me, but just wonder why China has never made any noise towards the Malaysians but praise them instead.

The Americans are using the Viets and Pinoys as proxies to try to isolate or surround China. This won't work as China is just too big now and constantly getting bigger. The Russians are certainly on China's side so are some the major countries in Europe (although they may not openly show it).

One more reminder to the Viets and Pinoys - when two elephants dance together, keep out of the way if you don't want to be injured.
.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Cossack25A1

Keel said:


> When will these poor people leave the rusty junk yard on humantarian grounds?



How about no?



ahojunk said:


> *There is a saying, "If you can't beat them, then join them."*
> 
> View attachment 199420
> 
> 
> I went over some of my notes. There are likely to be airstrips on Meiji (Mischief), Huayang (Cuarteron), Zhubi (Subi) and Yongshu (Fiery Cross) Islands. Looking at this map, you can see that these are the most logical positions. The Chinese have a grand plan and they are executing this plan. Looking at the record of the past 30+ years, I wouldn't bet against China. They have a very capable government whether we like it or not.
> 
> So, my advice to the Viets and Pinoys is to ignore the Americans' noise, forego their puny $18 million and $40 million aid and start working and cooperating with China. The benefits of cooperation is definitely more than these puny amount of aid. The Chinese are not really interested in your small piece of dirt in the SCS but they are more concern for their security. History has shown time and time again, the seas within their first island chain is very important to their security and sovereignty.
> 
> The Malaysians are very smart. Follow what they are doing and you will be alright. You don't have to believe me, but just wonder why China has never made any noise towards the Malaysians but praise them instead.
> 
> The Americans are using the Viets and Pinoys as proxies to try to isolate or surround China. This won't work as China is just too big now and constantly getting bigger. The Russians are certainly on China's side so are some the major countries in Europe (although they may not openly show it).
> 
> One more reminder to the Viets and Pinoys - when two elephants dance together, keep out of the way if you don't want to be injured.
> .



And what, lose more territory to China and our fishing industry die because we cannot fish anymore?

You are implying that we should disarm ourselves and be China's stooge where we will be pushed and shoved like slaves. Sure Americans are doing that but they are benevolent than China. Heck, if their history is to be looked at, they always wanted tributary states and whatever they call them at present times, it is still similar to the ancient Chinese tributary system.

And what of Japan? You mentioned Russia, Europe and even US but not Japan, which also have significant role in Asia-Pacific. 

In our own views, if we were to choose between two evils, we would rather accept the lesser one (US-NATO) rather than the greater one (China-SCO)


----------



## Keel

Cossack25A1 said:


> How about no?



Nature will take care of you
Has the bottom of the rusty junk yard fallen off yet?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Cossack25A1

Keel said:


> Nature will take care of you
> Has the bottom of the rusty junk yard fallen off yet?



It was run aground, meaning it is over a very shallow area of water, so not, it hasn't fallen off yet, unless you were talking about the top deck.

Nature or the PLA Navy, because it is more like the latter.


----------



## Keel

Cossack25A1 said:


> It was run aground, meaning it is over a very shallow area of water, so not, it hasn't fallen off yet, unless you were talking about the top deck.
> 
> Nature or the PLA Navy, because it is more like the latter.



Even if the rusty bottom is not falling off now, it wont take long for the structure of the rusty junk to break apart piece by piece

Are you sending medics to check for the health of the poor people?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Cossack25A1

Keel said:


> Even if the rusty bottom is not falling off now, it wont take long for the structure of the rusty junk to break apart piece by piece
> 
> Are you sending medics to check for the health of the poor people?



Then we would run aground another ship even if we have to play tag with Chinese coast guard ships.

And no, it is a rotating deployment with supplies being air-dropped.


----------



## Keel

Cossack25A1 said:


> Then we would run aground another ship even if we have to play tag with Chinese coast guard ships.
> o are
> And no, it is a rotating deployment with supplies being air-dropped.



Good idea
I hope you can ground your whole fleet there asap
But you are not landing the medics for the necessary checking up of your folks?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NiceGuy

ahojunk said:


> *There is a saying, "If you can't beat them, then join them."*
> 
> 
> 
> So, my advice to the Viets and Pinoys is to ignore the Americans' noise, forego their puny $18 million and $40 million aid and start working and cooperating with China. The benefits of cooperation is definitely more than these puny amount of aid. The Chinese are not really interested in your small piece of dirt in the SCS but they are more concern for their security. History has shown time and time again, the seas within their first island chain is very important to their security and sovereignty.
> 
> The Malaysians are very smart. Follow what they are doing and you will be alright. You don't have to believe me, but just wonder why China has never made any noise towards the Malaysians but praise them instead.
> 
> The Americans are using the Viets and Pinoys as proxies to try to isolate or surround China. This won't work as China is just too big now and constantly getting bigger. The Russians are certainly on China's side so are some the major countries in Europe (although they may not openly show it).
> 
> One more reminder to the Viets and Pinoys - when two elephants dance together, keep out of the way if you don't want to be injured.
> .


cooperating with China. ?? Why must we cooperate wt a coward-poorly trained-corrupted army like PLA ?? U can keep building, but if u make some stupid action like the last oil rig conflict, then we will kick your sorry @$$ back again and again , and the whole World can give a big laugh to ur coward-poorly trained-corrupted PLA again 

Pls note that since we VN came here, we only see Chinese have the guts to balh blah on internet, dare not make any strong action on real battle . U r so cheap, guys


----------



## Cossack25A1

Keel said:


> Good idea
> I hope you can ground your whole fleet there asap
> But you are not landing the medics for the necessary checking up of your folks?



We're only going to ground obsolete ships, not the new ones.

The soldiers in that grounded ship gets rotated, thus medical checkup is likely done when they return to base.


----------



## yusheng

sooner， there will be three airbase there, we will see how they do in the triangle?
pushing is enough
will they fire？

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## NiceGuy

yusheng said:


> sooner， there will be three airbase there, we will see how they do in the triangle?
> pushing is enough
> will they fire？
> View attachment 199435


Wow, I see so many VN flag on the pic when it so hard to see China flag


----------



## BoQ77

Martian2 said:


> *China's military power in the South China Sea and the US response*
> 
> China has at least 600 modern fourth-generation fighter aircraft (J-10A, J-10B, J-11A, J-11B, Su-27, Su-30, J-15, and J-16).
> 
> Additionally, China has:
> 
> 1 Aircraft Carrier (Liaoning)
> 25 Destroyers (Type 052, Type 052B, Type 052C, Type 052D, and a few older ships)
> 47 Frigates (Type 054A and some older ships)
> 23 Corvettes (Type 056 and some older ships)
> 70 Submarines (Type 093 Shang SSN, Type 094 Jin SSBN, Type 091 Han SSN, Type 092 Xia SSBN, Type 041 Yuan SSK with AIP, Type 039 Song, Kilos, and Mings)
> 
> *In response to the Chinese Armada, the US provides...5 patrol boats to Vietnam!
> 
> I can't stop laughing.* What difference will 5 patrol boats make? A destroyer's main gun can destroy all 5 patrol boats in under 10 seconds.



If China attempt to use warship to confront other nation Coast Guard ships, there're some surprises for them. Anyway, we expect the ASEAN Coast Guard established soon, next ASEAN-TO



NiceGuy said:


> Wow, I see so many VN flag on the pic when it so hard to see China flag



Vietnam has the stadiums to play football for long time.

China come to the point that unable to come back. They must feel regretable to not stop in time.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Cossack25A1

Chinese logic when the said triad airbases are made:
_
*Intrude into our "territory" and we will bomb your cities and we will bomb your civilians until you monkeys say "All Hail, China!"*_


----------



## areal

it seems 1988 has been a long time ago from the big mouth below.


NiceGuy said:


> cooperating with China. ?? Why must we cooperate wt a coward-poorly trained-corrupted army like PLA ?? U can keep building, but if u make some stupid action like the last oil rig conflict, then we will kick your sorry @$$ back again and again , and the whole World can give a big laugh to ur coward-poorly trained-corrupted PLA again
> 
> Pls note that since we VN came here, we only see Chinese have the guts to balh blah on internet, dare not make any strong action on real battle . U r so cheap, guys



really curious about the surprise, cannot wait to see, hoho


BoQ77 said:


> If China attempt to use warship to confront other nation Coast Guard ships, there're some surprises for them. Anyway, we expect the ASEAN Coast Guard established soon, next ASEAN-TO
> 
> 
> 
> Vietnam has the stadiums to play football for long time.
> 
> China come to the point that unable to come back. They must feel regretable to not stop in time.



Yes, what you speculate is correct, China had and has a grand strategy over SCS, maybe not only over SCS.
but at least, the reefs, that in 1988, PLA navy decided to grab, had been carefully selected.


ahojunk said:


> *There is a saying, "If you can't beat them, then join them."*
> 
> View attachment 199420
> 
> 
> I went over some of my notes. There are likely to be airstrips on Meiji (Mischief), Huayang (Cuarteron), Zhubi (Subi) and Yongshu (Fiery Cross) Islands. Looking at this map, you can see that these are the most logical positions. The Chinese have a grand plan and they are executing this plan. Looking at the record of the past 30+ years, I wouldn't bet against China. They have a very capable government whether we like it or not.
> 
> So, my advice to the Viets and Pinoys is to ignore the Americans' noise, forego their puny $18 million and $40 million aid and start working and cooperating with China. The benefits of cooperation is definitely more than these puny amount of aid. The Chinese are not really interested in your small piece of dirt in the SCS but they are more concern for their security. History has shown time and time again, the seas within their first island chain is very important to their security and sovereignty.
> 
> The Malaysians are very smart. Follow what they are doing and you will be alright. You don't have to believe me, but just wonder why China has never made any noise towards the Malaysians but praise them instead.
> 
> The Americans are using the Viets and Pinoys as proxies to try to isolate or surround China. This won't work as China is just too big now and constantly getting bigger. The Russians are certainly on China's side so are some the major countries in Europe (although they may not openly show it).
> 
> One more reminder to the Viets and Pinoys - when two elephants dance together, keep out of the way if you don't want to be injured.
> .

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Viet

Martian2 said:


> *China's military budget: $145 BILLION. US military aid to Vietnam is non-existent.*
> 
> US military aid to Vietnam is a miserly $18 million. That's roughly 1/10,000th of China's military budget.
> 
> It's obvious to everyone that the US is treating Vietnam and the Philippines as a joke. How else can you explain the ridiculously tiny $18 million military aid to Vietnam and $40 million to the Philippines?
> ----------
> 
> *Meager $18 million US military aid to Vietnam*
> 
> US Offers Vietnam Massive Aid Package To Boost Coast Guard - The American Interest
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----------
> 
> *Miserly $40 million US military aid to the Philippines*
> 
> US Pledges $40 Million in Military Aid to Philippines


well, you can laugh days and nights if you like, but I say a big thank you to uncle sam for the $18 millions. it is the first time the US provides military aid. one should not forget, we receive another $10 millions for mine clearance this year.

US pledges $10 million for landmine clearance in Vietnam | Politics | Thanh Nien Daily



ahojunk said:


> *There is a saying, "If you can't beat them, then join them."*
> 
> View attachment 199420
> 
> 
> I went over some of my notes. There are likely to be airstrips on Meiji (Mischief), Huayang (Cuarteron), Zhubi (Subi) and Yongshu (Fiery Cross) Islands. Looking at this map, you can see that these are the most logical positions. The Chinese have a grand plan and they are executing this plan. Looking at the record of the past 30+ years, I wouldn't bet against China. They have a very capable government whether we like it or not.
> 
> So, my advice to the Viets and Pinoys is to ignore the Americans' noise, forego their puny $18 million and $40 million aid and start working and cooperating with China. The benefits of cooperation is definitely more than these puny amount of aid. The Chinese are not really interested in your small piece of dirt in the SCS but they are more concern for their security. History has shown time and time again, the seas within their first island chain is very important to their security and sovereignty.
> 
> *The Malaysians are very smart.* Follow what they are doing and you will be alright. You don't have to believe me, but just wonder why China has never made any noise towards the Malaysians but praise them instead.
> 
> The Americans are using the Viets and Pinoys as proxies to try to isolate or surround China. This won't work as China is just too big now and constantly getting bigger. The Russians are certainly on China's side so are some the major countries in Europe (although they may not openly show it).
> 
> One more reminder to the Viets and Pinoys - when two elephants dance together, keep out of the way if you don't want to be injured.
> .


from all of your bullshit bla bla bla post above, only I can agree to "The Malaysians are very smart". you obviously not. If you are dumb and retard, don´t make the mistake and assume other people are as dumb and retard as you.

a quiz for you:

the US gives us $10m for mine clearance this year, how much money does China give for mine clearance, mines and granates that aren´t exploded in north vietnam after the PLA bastards came destroying our cities killing our people?


----------



## Martian2

Viet said:


> well, you can laugh days and nights if you like, but I say a big thank you to uncle sam for the $18 millions. it is the first time the US provides military aid. one should not forget, we receive another $10 millions for mine clearance this year.
> 
> US pledges $10 million for landmine clearance in Vietnam | Politics | Thanh Nien Daily
> 
> 
> from all of your bullshit bla bla bla post above, only I can agree to "The Malaysians are very smart". you obviously not. If you are dumb and retard, don´t make the mistake and assume other people are as dumb and retard as you.



*Why even bother?*

Come on. $28 million is pointless. The US effect is incredibly minimal.

Tell me, what's the difference between having the US support you with $28 million per year and no US support? It's about the same thing.

It's like the US isn't even there.

You can't fight a war with US press releases or $28 million dollars. You need a lot of advanced heavy hardware. You guys got zip. Five patrol boats to fight The Dragon!
----------

U.S. offers help to South East Asia, most to Vietnam, to patrol seas| Reuters

"Kerry said up to $18 million of the funds would go toward strengthening Vietnam's coastal patrols to help its coastguard react quicker to search and rescue missions, and for disasters. *The funding would also be used to buy five 'fast' patrol boats for Vietnam's coastguard in 2014*, he added."

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Viet

Martian2 said:


> *Why even bother?*
> 
> Come on. $28 million is pointless. The US effect is incredibly minimal.
> 
> Tell me, what's the difference between having the US support you with $28 million per year and no US support? It's about the same thing.
> 
> It's like the US isn't even there.
> 
> You can't fight a war with US press releases or $28 million dollars. You need a lot of advanced heavy hardware. You guys got zip. Five patrol boats!
> ----------
> 
> U.S. offers help to South East Asia, most to Vietnam, to patrol seas| Reuters
> "Kerry said up to $18 million of the funds would go toward strengthening Vietnam's coastal patrols to help its coastguard react quicker to search and rescue missions, and for disasters. *The funding would also be used to buy five 'fast' patrol boats for Vietnam's coastguard in 2014*, he added."


why bother? well, I am not as a rich boy as you saying $28m is nothing. do you think we will use these 5 patrol boats to fight your destroyers? are you sleeping? the boats will patrol the coast. that is their task.

just in case you haven´t noticed, our defence budget is $7.7b this year, and expected to reach $11.1 in 2019.

Vietnam Defence & Security Report


----------



## Martian2

Viet said:


> why bother? well, I am not as a rich boy as you saying $28m is nothing. do you think we will use these 5 patrol boats to fight your destroyers? are you sleeping? the boats will patrol the coast. that is their task.
> 
> just in case you haven´t noticed, our defence budget is $7.7b this year, and expected to reach $11.1 in 2019.
> 
> Vietnam Defence & Security Report



*Vietnam is toast*

China's defense budget: $145 billion (plus it buys high-technology weapons)

Vietnam's defense budget: $8 billion (mostly to pay peasant soldier wages)

I say you guys are toast. US support of five patrol boats won't tip the balance.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Viet

Martian2 said:


> *Vietnam is toast*
> 
> China's defense budget: $145 billion (plus it buys high-technology weapons)
> 
> Vietnam's defense budget: $8 billion (mostly to pay peasant soldier wages)
> 
> I say you guys are toast. US support of five patrol boats won't tip the balance.


the US military budget is higher than yours. the balance of power will be altered if we ally with the US. you are a toast.


----------



## Martian2

Viet said:


> the US military budget is higher than yours. the balance of power will be altered if we ally with the US. you are a toast.


*US has never allied with a communist nation such as Vietnam*

1. Vietnam is a communist country. The US has never signed a defense treaty with a communist nation. You are out of luck.

2. US pledged neutrality repeatedly.

3. China has shorter logistical lines. In other words, most of the US military assets are 10,000 miles away.

4. China buys more per dollar than the US. US only has one major weapon program in the F-35.

China has six major new weapon programs.
a. Chengdu J-20 stealth fighter
b. Shenyang J-31 stealth fighter
c. Type 095 SSN
d. Type 096 Tang-class SSBN with JL-3 SLBMs
e. Type 055 Destroyer
f. Chinese Nimitz-class aircraft carrier

*China holds all of the cards.*

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Zero_wing

Keel said:


> When will these poor people leave the rusty junk yard on humantarian grounds?



If i always harass your supply ships from going to your outpost maybe it will happen to you too why not take it see what happens beside you people already violated every agreeement why you people afriad i guess being a bully has hurt china alot most of your neighboring are building up military capabilities and people are already concern so go ahead put other nail to the peaceful rise coffie i tell you again you guys suck on making china look good.


----------



## Cossack25A1

Martian2 said:


> *Vietnam is toast*
> 
> China's defense budget: $145 billion (plus it buys high-technology weapons)
> 
> Vietnam's defense budget: $8 billion (mostly to pay peasant soldier wages)
> 
> I say you guys are toast. US support of five patrol boats won't tip the balance.





Martian2 said:


> *US has never allied with a communist nation such as Vietnam*
> 
> 1. Vietnam is a communist country. The US has never signed a defense treaty with a communist nation. You are out of luck.
> 
> 2. US pledged neutrality repeatedly.
> 
> 3. China has shorter logistical lines. In other words, most of the US military assets are 10,000 miles away.
> 
> 4. China buys more per dollar than the US. US only has one major weapon program in the F-35.
> 
> China has six major new weapon programs.
> a. Chengdu J-20 stealth fighter
> b. Shenyang J-31 stealth fighter
> c. Type 095 SSN
> d. Type 096 Tang-class SSBN with JL-3 SLBMs
> e. Type 055 Destroyer
> f. Chinese Nimitz-class aircraft carrier
> 
> *China holds all of the cards.*



Your tone suggests that you really want war, destroy the country and exterminate the people that China deems as evil.


----------



## Martian2

*Vietnam stands alone!*

Many of our Vietnamese forum members do not realize that the United States has *NEVER* signed a defense treaty with a communist country such as Vietnam. Israel can be an ally of the United States. Vietnam cannot.

The United States has declared neutrality in the South China Sea for forty years. In the past year alone, the United States made two very public proclamations of neutrality (see citation below). There were US declarations of neutrality regarding the South China Sea made on June and December of 2014.

This leaves only one option. You Vietnamese have to face China alone. Good luck guys.
----------

*Forty years of US neutrality on the South China Sea issue*

For those that are keeping track, the latest US pronouncement of neutrality on the South China Sea occurred on December 7, 2014. From 1974 (see chart below) to 2014, that's 40 years of US neutrality. _Happy 40th anniversary everybody!_

Beijing's and Washington's Dueling South China Sea Papers | Center for Strategic and International Studies

*"Dec 9, 2014 - Two days earlier the U.S. State Department released a long-awaited ... islands in the South China Sea, reiterating the U.S. position of neutrality.*"
----------

China and America: A Superpower Showdown in Asia | The National Interest

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Zero_wing

yusheng said:


> sooner， there will be three airbase there, we will see how they do in the triangle?
> pushing is enough
> will they fire？
> View attachment 199435



Oh good things to shoot down with when our anti air missiles and manpods get here and plus i love to see other US airforce deployment in the area to shut you people up for good just like what they did in when you arrogant jerks try to Air nonsense zone in someone elses EZZ that was funny to see too i mean P8 is here in the Philippines and the US Marines air corp is here as well plus guam is near by so the US airforce plus soon Japan and Vietnam (there part of the wood) and us with our new FA50s so wow and Indonesia too since its pretty close oh wait i forgot Malaysia too so that alot of countries you people are going to piss off good luck.



Martian2 said:


> *Vietnam stands alone!*
> 
> Many of our Vietnamese forum members do not realize that the United States has *NEVER* signed a defense treaty with a communist country such as Vietnam.
> 
> The United States has declared neutrality in the South China Sea for forty years. In the past year, the United States made two very public proclamations of neutrality (see citation below).
> 
> This leaves only one option. You Vietnamese have to face China alone. Good luck guys.
> ----------
> 
> *Forty years of US neutrality on the South China Sea issue*
> 
> For those that are keeping track, the latest US pronouncement of neutrality on the South China Sea occurred on December 7, 2014. From 1974 (see chart below) to 2014, that's 40 years of US neutrality. _Happy 40th anniversary everybody!_
> 
> Beijing's and Washington's Dueling South China Sea Papers | Center for Strategic and International Studies
> 
> *"Dec 9, 2014 - Two days earlier the U.S. State Department released a long-awaited ... islands in the South China Sea, reiterating the U.S. position of neutrality.*"
> ----------
> 
> China and America: A Superpower Showdown in Asia | The National Interest



Again you suck at this nice try but save your nonsense for someone who cares you people piss off a lot countries your going to lose hard just ask Imperial Japan and Nazi Germany and Facist Italy oh wait their gone now up same thing here.


----------



## Martian2

Zero_wing said:


> Oh good things to shoot down with when our anti air missiles and manpods get here and plus i love to see other US airforce deployment in the area to shut you people up for good just like what they did in when you arrogant jerks try to Air nonsense zone in someone elses EZZ that was funny to see too i mean P8 is here in the Philippines and the US Marines air corp is here as well plus guam is near by so the US airforce plus soon Japan and Vietnam (there part of the wood) and us with our new FA50s so wow and Indonesia too since its pretty close oh wait i forgot Malaysia too so that alot of countries you people are going to piss off good luck.
> 
> 
> 
> Again you suck at this nice try but save your nonsense for someone who cares you people piss off a lot countries your going to lose hard just ask Imperial Japan and Nazi Germany and Facist Italy oh wait their gone now up same thing here.


*Don't compare China to very weak Germany*

Oh please, you can't be that stupid.

China is 50 times stronger than Germany.

1. China has thermonuclear weapons.
2. China is a continent of 9.6 million square kilometers. Germany is smaller than the state of Montana.
3. China has 1.4 BILLION people. Germany had 0.08 billion people.

China can conquer all of Asia and still have 1 Billion people in reserve.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## lonelyman

Zero_wing said:


> Oh good things to shoot down with when our anti air missiles and manpods get here and plus i love to see other US airforce deployment in the area to shut you people up for good just like what they did in when you arrogant jerks try to Air nonsense zone in someone elses EZZ that was funny to see too i mean P8 is here in the Philippines and the US Marines air corp is here as well plus guam is near by so the US airforce plus soon Japan and Vietnam (there part of the wood) and us with our new FA50s so wow and Indonesia too since its pretty close oh wait i forgot Malaysia too so that alot of countries you people are going to piss off good luck.
> 
> 
> 
> Again you suck at this nice try but save your nonsense for someone who cares you people piss off a lot countries your going to lose hard just ask Imperial Japan and Nazi Germany and Facist Italy oh wait their gone now up same thing here.



All you guys hope is USA, USA, USA, why don't you sell yourself to be American's bitch?

Grow up, stop crying for help like a baby and fight like a man.



NiceGuy said:


> cooperating with China. ?? Why must we cooperate wt a coward-poorly trained-corrupted army like PLA ?? U can keep building, but if u make some stupid action like the last oil rig conflict, then we will kick your sorry @$$ back again and again , and the whole World can give a big laugh to ur coward-poorly trained-corrupted PLA again
> 
> Pls note that since we VN came here, we only see Chinese have the guts to balh blah on internet, dare not make any strong action on real battle . U r so cheap, guys



Please, angry viet keyboard warrior, grow some sense and balls as well.



NiceGuy said:


> Wow, I see so many VN flag on the pic when it so hard to see China flag


with our navy, will drive you viet thieves out one single night.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## BoQ77

Martian2 said:


> *US has never allied with a communist nation such as Vietnam*
> 
> 1. Vietnam is a communist country. The US has never signed a defense treaty with a communist nation. You are out of luck.
> 
> 2. US pledged neutrality repeatedly.
> 
> 3. China has shorter logistical lines. In other words, most of the US military assets are 10,000 miles away.
> 
> 4. China buys more per dollar than the US. US only has one major weapon program in the F-35.
> 
> China has six major new weapon programs.
> a. Chengdu J-20 stealth fighter
> b. Shenyang J-31 stealth fighter
> c. Type 095 SSN
> d. Type 096 Tang-class SSBN with JL-3 SLBMs
> e. Type 055 Destroyer
> f. Chinese Nimitz-class aircraft carrier
> 
> *China holds all of the cards.*



Chinese Nimitz class LOL

Let me correct you. Vietnam still doesn't want to ally with third party to against aggressive neighbor. That belongs to 3 Noes.


----------



## Martian2

BoQ77 said:


> Chinese Nimitz class LOL


See ninth citation below.
----------

*Most anticipated new Chinese weapons*

All of us want to know about the next impressive Chinese weapon system. Here's my top ten list.

1. Dark Sword supersonic stealth UCAV (2020)
2. Type 055 Destroyer (2017-2020)
3. Type 095 SSN (2020-2025)
4. Type 096 Tang-class SSBN with JL-3 SLBMs (2020-2025)
5. Mass production of Chengdu J-20 stealth fighter (2017-2018)
6. Mass production of Shenyang J-31 stealth fighter (2019)
7. WS-15 turbofan engine (2019)
8. H-20 stealth bomber (2025)
9. Chinese Nimitz-class aircraft carrier (2025-2030?)
10. ASAT against distant GPS satellites (?)
----------

1. China can build manned stealth fighters. Clearly, China has the technology to build an unmanned stealth fighter. Since the Dark Sword probably started later, I'll estimate a two-year delay after J-20 induction.

2. Popular Science's estimate. Source: Learning More About China’s New Massive Warship Plan (055 Cruiser) | Popular Science

3. China Submarine Capabilities | Articles | NTI Analysis | NTI
"While the PLAN is currently developing newer Type 095 SSNs and Type 096 SSBNs, the U.S. Department of Defense believes that China will build four more Type 093 SSNs and two more Type 094 SSBNs before moving onto constructing the newer varieties. [11]"

China says type 095 nuclear submarine is better than US submarines | China Daily Mail
"According to sina.com.cn, China will adopt the following six new technologies in its type 095 attack nuclear submarines: new water injection propulsion, super strong steel, mixed single and double-hull structure, new comprehensive vibration reduction floating raft and vertical launch tube for cruise missile.

The website says that the new submarine has to have an underwater speed not less than 33 knots, silent cruise speed not less than 18 knots, and maximum submerging depth not less than 600 metres.

That means the submarine is better than the US Virginia-class and comparable to the US Seawolf-class attack nuclear submarine."

4. China SSBN Fleet Getting Ready – But For What? | Federation of American Scientists
"The U.S. intelligence community predicts that 'up to five [Jin-class (Type 094) SSBNs] may enter service before China proceeds to its generation SSBN (Type 096) over the next decade'...."

5. Chinese J-20 Stealth Fighter | global aviation report
"Nov 22, 2014 - China's stealth J-20 fighter development in question due to engine concerns ... *China's J-20 stealth fighter may begin small-scale production in 2017* ... stealth fighter, the Chengdu J-20, in preparation for mass production of the aircraft. .... to enter production in 2018 · China believes PLAAF's J-10C fighter ..."

6. China Military Online English Edition
"*The J-31 stealth fighter is very likely to be put into mass production within five years*, and has a big chance of being a carrier-borne type, said Xu Yongling, aviation expert, in an interview."

7. 6th J-20 Stealth Fighter Rolls Out, More to Soon Follow | Popular Science
"At this point in the J-20's development, the design is essentially fixed, though *the AL-31 engines are likely to be swapped for more powerful Chinese WS-15 turbofans by 2019.*"

8. China’s Rising Defense Budgets Stoke Regional Concerns | Defense content from Aviation Week
"Chinese power projection systems will also advance, like the Y-20, which may enter service in 2017-18; some Chinese sources suggest that China eventually will require 400 of the type. *Asian military sources have told Aviation Week that Xian’s H-20 flying-wing strategic bomber could emerge by 2025.* It increasingly seems that China’s second and third aircraft carriers may be built near-simultaneously, as a new large Type 071 landing platform dock and plans for a new landing helicopter dock amphibious assault ships emerge. Also there are reports that in addition to six Type 093 second-generation nuclear attack submarines (SSN) expected by the Defense Department, *there may be up to 14 Type 095 third-generation SSNs in the early 2020s.*"

9. China Building Trio of Large Nuclear-Powered Aircraft Carriers Similar To US’ Nimitz, Ford-Class Carriers -- Report
"While the journey remains arduous, and the timeline and milestones uncertain, Beijing's path to indigenous carrier development appears and its desired destination is getting clearer, Erickson said. 'China appears to be going for the gold standard-the U.S. standard, that is-as quickly as reasonably possible. Top-tier must-haves appear to include American-size hulls, nuclear propulsion, catapults, and advanced wire arrestor gear. Developing new hulls and nuclear propulsion is the first step, improved aircraft can be added in later. As a self-styled great sea power, Beijing is determined to be second to none, even if much work remains to be done to truly get there.'"

10. A real ASAT test creates space debris. How can China build an effective ASAT after the US used world opinion to prevent future Chinese ASAT tests?

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Zero_wing

lonelyman said:


> All you guys hope is USA, USA, USA, why don't you sell yourself to be American's bitch?
> 
> Grow up, stop crying for help like a baby and fight like a man.
> 
> 
> 
> Please, angry viet keyboard warrior, grow some sense and balls as well.
> 
> 
> with our navy, will drive you viet thieves out one single night.



Wow then the whole region fear will be confirm and your country will be cut off good luck nice rant child not using the old brain well after all you are drone. Think before you post did they teach you that on propaganda school you paid maoist imperialist? Looks like some miss some patriortic edcuation classes



Martian2 said:


> *Don't compare China to very weak Germany*
> 
> Oh please, you can't be that stupid.
> 
> China is 50 times stronger than Germany.
> 
> 1. China has thermonuclear weapons.
> 2. China is a continent of 9.6 million square kilometers. Germany is smaller than the state of Montana.
> 3. China has 1.4 BILLION people. Germany had 0.08 billion people.
> 
> China can conquer all of Asia and still have 1 Billion people in reserve.



So you admit china has no peaceful motives from the start thank you at least your honest and really i said Nazi German not modern Germany which is far better country than china could ever be well every country is better than china since most of modern china technology is stolen and the moral character of the hard core nationalist is lower than the low for humans case and point your paid moaist post calls for are and your post right now. again make your idle threats its all you can do because if you people are really stupid to declare war on the majority of the world you lose no matter how strong you are because everyone will be guning for you behinds so again do you worse you people will end up the same.


----------



## Martian2

Zero_wing said:


> Wow then the whole region fear will be confirm and your country will be cut off good luck nice rant child not using the old brain well after all you are drone. Think before you post did they teach you that on propaganda school you paid maoist imperialist? Looks like some miss some patriortic edcuation classes
> 
> 
> 
> So you admit china has no peaceful motives from the start thank you at least your honest and really i said Nazi German not modern Germany which is far better country than china could ever be well every country is better than china since most of modern china technology is stolen and the moral character of the hard core nationalist is lower than the low for humans case and point your paid moaist post calls for are and your post right now. again make your idle threats its all you can do because if you people are really stupid to declare war on the majority of the world you lose no matter how strong you are because everyone will be guning for you behinds so again do you worse you people will end up the same.


*Stepping on a bug*

I'm just making the point that China will step on Vietnam like a bug. No one else in the world will care or interfere. The US itself is scared of China. Why else do you think the US keeps loudly and repeatedly declaring neutrality?

How many times does the US have to keep repeating neutrality before you dummies get the message?
----------
Why China's Actions in the South China Sea Matter to the U.S. - NBC News
"*Jun 9, 2014* - *The US has declared itself neutral on the island claims* despite the facts... But the issue of the South China Sea will remain a major feature of its ..."

Beijing’s and Washington’s Dueling South China Sea Papers | Center for Strategic and International Studies
*"Dec 9, 2014 - Two days earlier the U.S. State Department released a long-awaited ... islands in the South China Sea, reiterating the U.S. position of neutrality.*"

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## lonelyman

Zero_wing said:


> Wow then the whole region fear will be confirm and your country will be cut off good luck nice rant child not using the old brain well after all you are drone. Think before you post did they teach you that on propaganda school you paid maoist imperialist? Looks like some miss some patriortic edcuation classes


please improve ur English, u dummy. numerous grammar errors, and learn use punctuation properly. go back to ur shithole country and school first, kid.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Cossack25A1

BoQ77 said:


> Chinese Nimitz class LOL
> 
> Let me correct you. Vietnam still doesn't want to ally with third party to against aggressive neighbor. That belongs to 3 Noes.



It is likely based on the Ulyanovsk-class carrier.

--------

These are the reason why fully-automated drones, human-size armored powered exoskeleton, larger armored powered exoskeleton, stealth warships, advance submarines, sixth-generation fighters, smart weapons, hypersonic weapons, electromagnetic weapons, directed-energy weapons, nano-tech weapon and potent cyber weapons should be developed to counter the Chinese aggression.

I am sure Murica's mad-science division is already doing something like those mentioned on top. And before anyone mention something, NO, I haven't played Advance Warfare; the development of the XOS-2 exoskeleton, HAL 5 exoskeleton and PETMAN and Atlas robots are indications.


----------



## lonelyman

Martian2 said:


> *Stepping on a bug*
> 
> I'm just making the point that China will step on Vietnam like a bug. No one else in the world will care or interfere. The US itself is scared of China. Why else do you think the US keeps loudly and repeatedly declaring neutrality?
> 
> How many times does the US have to keep repeating neutrality before you dummies get the message?
> ----------
> Why China's Actions in the South China Sea Matter to the U.S. - NBC News
> "*Jun 9, 2014* - *The US has declared itself neutral on the island claims* despite the facts... But the issue of the South China Sea will remain a major feature of its ..."
> 
> Beijing’s and Washington’s Dueling South China Sea Papers | Center for Strategic and International Studies
> *"Dec 9, 2014 - Two days earlier the U.S. State Department released a long-awaited ... islands in the South China Sea, reiterating the U.S. position of neutrality.*"



USA fight a war for Vietnam? Haha, Viet's wet dream. I had better chance dating scarlett johansson

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zero_wing

lonelyman said:


> please improve ur English, u dummy. numerous grammar errors, and learn use punctuation properly. go back to ur shithole country and school first, kid.



Calling me names? wow so grown up you are case and point i got you good so give us more evidence of china's good will to the world



Martian2 said:


> *Stepping on a bug*
> 
> I'm just making the point that China will step on Vietnam like a bug. No one else in the world will care or interfere. The US itself is scared of China. Why else do you think the US keeps loudly and repeatedly declaring neutrality?
> 
> How many times does the US have to keep repeating neutrality before you dummies get the message?
> ----------
> Why China's Actions in the South China Sea Matter to the U.S. - NBC News
> "*Jun 9, 2014* - *The US has declared itself neutral on the island claims* despite the facts... But the issue of the South China Sea will remain a major feature of its ..."
> 
> Beijing’s and Washington’s Dueling South China Sea Papers | Center for Strategic and International Studies
> *"Dec 9, 2014 - Two days earlier the U.S. State Department released a long-awaited ... islands in the South China Sea, reiterating the U.S. position of neutrality.*"



Ya in the end a whole srawm of bugs killing painfully


----------



## terranMarine

lonelyman said:


> please improve ur English, u dummy. numerous grammar errors, and learn use punctuation properly. go back to ur shithole country and school first, kid.


we've been telling that illiterate for years, alas our calls were neglected and nobody bothers with his opinion anymore. Just skip it

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Zero_wing

Ya only the chinese maoist dont bother with opinions of others just face it you paid maoist jerkface have no more real arguments here save yourselves the trouble and dont post anymore of your idle threats and your nonsense in general call me whatever you like i dont give damn because my post have more content thant your trash.


----------



## Martian2

*US doesn't care about Vietnam: Top 5 reasons*

1. *Vietnam is a communist country.* The US has NEVER signed a defense treaty with a communist nation.

2. In 1974, South Vietnam was a US ally. *The United States did nothing as China took over the Paracel Islands in 1974.*

3. *The United States has proclaimed forty years of neutrality in the South China Sea.* In the latest incidents, the United States publicly proclaimed neutrality in June and December of 2014.

4. *The United States is downsizing the Army to 450,000 troops.* The United States will match the post-World War II low in Army strength. The United States does not plan to fight a war.

It is impossible to fight against China's 2.2-million PLA Army with only 450,000 troops.

Army Veterans Recall Layoffs from Previous Eras | Military.com
"Army Veterans Recall Layoffs from Previous Eras
Sep 10, 2014 | by Brendan McGarry
...
After rising to 570,000 soldiers in 2008 during the war in Iraq, the Army has less than 520,000 soldiers today and is on pace to shrink to 490,000 soldiers by next year. It's bracing for even further reductions driven by automatic budget cuts known as sequestration.

*The Pentagon's proposed budget for 2015 calls for the service's end-strength to decrease to 440,000-450,000 soldiers by 2017. If sequestration remains in effect, the number may fall to as low as 420,000 soldiers* -- tens of thousands less than the figure the Army's top officer, Gen. Raymond Odierno, said is needed to respond adequately to conflicts around the world."

5. *The Pentagon insists on protecting its ties with China.*

US Army Protects China Ties Despite Tensions | DefenseNews
"US Army Protects China Ties Despite Tensions
By Joe Gould | 10:17 p.m. EST March 4, 2015
...
Amid reports the Pentagon has paused efforts to expand defense ties with China until the two nations can agree on rules for airborne encounters between their warplanes, *Gen. Vincent Brooks, chief of US Army Pacific (USARPAC), said he received no instructions to reduce his engagements with the People's Liberation Army.*
...
The US Army will continue to receive Chinese official visits at US Army Pacific headquarters, plan events with the Chinese and maintain ties under the 'sufficient latitude' that policy guidelines provide, Brooks said. *The command, for example, is in talks to hold exchanges between mid-career officials from the two nations.*

'We don't want to have transactional engagements with one another, where we only come together when we need something," Brooks said. "We need to have more substantial relationships that can be built over time.'"

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Cossack25A1

Now, I am just going to watch and eat popcorn on this thread.


----------



## Zero_wing

Cossack25A1 said:


> Now, I am just going to watch and eat popcorn on this thread.



Well same rin puro panggagag0 lng na man alam ng maoist posters d2


----------



## Viet

Martian2 said:


> *Stepping on a bug*
> 
> I'm just making the point that China will step on Vietnam like a bug. No one else in the world will care or interfere. The US itself is scared of China. Why else do you think the US keeps loudly and repeatedly declaring neutrality?
> 
> How many times does the US have to keep repeating neutrality before you dummies get the message?
> ----------
> Why China's Actions in the South China Sea Matter to the U.S. - NBC News
> "*Jun 9, 2014* - *The US has declared itself neutral on the island claims* despite the facts... But the issue of the South China Sea will remain a major feature of its ..."
> 
> Beijing’s and Washington’s Dueling South China Sea Papers | Center for Strategic and International Studies
> *"Dec 9, 2014 - Two days earlier the U.S. State Department released a long-awaited ... islands in the South China Sea, reiterating the U.S. position of neutrality.*"


----------



## Cossack25A1

Zero_wing said:


> Well same rin puro panggagag0 lng na man alam ng maoist posters d2



I am pretty sure this definition I have is not accurate but this is how I see Chinese members in this forum (or at least in certain thread discussions) - there are four with two extras:

1. "Troll" - no need for definition

2. "(Ultra)Nationalist" - members who believe that they are always right, dismiss others' point-of-view and even see them as hostile even though the comment they are replying on doesn't have any hostile sentiment. Some may post very detailed commentaries that has some sense except that it is pro-China.

3. "50 cent" - possibly people paid to make pro-China comments, stir up the discussion (less-likely), derailing a thread (probable) or at least divert the discussions into something that doesn't contradict the discussion but veer it towards pro-China side or neutral side (most likely). There is a chance that some are false-flaggers or they appear to be "professional" in the sense that they can go details like an ultra.

4. "Warmonger" - certain members will likely post comments that goes along the line "_we must nuke *insert country name here* to teach them a lesson_" or other comments similar to the mentioned line.

5. "Falseflag" - some may use other country flag. Kinda hard to identify as some are actually different nationality... which brings us to another definition.

6. "Sinophile" - members of other nationalities that has strong pro-China stance.


----------



## Viet

Martian2 said:


> *US doesn't care about Vietnam: Top 5 reasons*
> 
> 1. *Vietnam is a communist country.* The US has NEVER signed a defense treaty with a communist nation.
> 
> 2. In 1974, South Vietnam was a US ally. *The United States did nothing as China took over the Paracel Islands in 1974.*
> 
> 3. *The United States has proclaimed forty years of neutrality in the South China Sea.* In the latest incidents, the United States publicly proclaimed neutrality in June and December of 2014.
> 
> 4. *The United States is downsizing the Army to 450,000 troops.* The United States will match the post-World War II low in Army strength. The United States does not plan to fight a war.
> 
> It is impossible to fight against China's 2.2-million PLA Army with only 450,000 troops.
> 
> Army Veterans Recall Layoffs from Previous Eras | Military.com
> "Army Veterans Recall Layoffs from Previous Eras
> Sep 10, 2014 | by Brendan McGarry
> ...
> After rising to 570,000 soldiers in 2008 during the war in Iraq, the Army has less than 520,000 soldiers today and is on pace to shrink to 490,000 soldiers by next year. It's bracing for even further reductions driven by automatic budget cuts known as sequestration.
> 
> *The Pentagon's proposed budget for 2015 calls for the service's end-strength to decrease to 440,000-450,000 soldiers by 2017. If sequestration remains in effect, the number may fall to as low as 420,000 soldiers* -- tens of thousands less than the figure the Army's top officer, Gen. Raymond Odierno, said is needed to respond adequately to conflicts around the world."
> 
> 5. *The Pentagon insists on protecting its ties with China.*
> 
> US Army Protects China Ties Despite Tensions | DefenseNews
> "US Army Protects China Ties Despite Tensions
> By Joe Gould | 10:17 p.m. EST March 4, 2015
> ...
> Amid reports the Pentagon has paused efforts to expand defense ties with China until the two nations can agree on rules for airborne encounters between their warplanes, *Gen. Vincent Brooks, chief of US Army Pacific (USARPAC), said he received no instructions to reduce his engagements with the People's Liberation Army.*
> ...
> The US Army will continue to receive Chinese official visits at US Army Pacific headquarters, plan events with the Chinese and maintain ties under the 'sufficient latitude' that policy guidelines provide, Brooks said. *The command, for example, is in talks to hold exchanges between mid-career officials from the two nations.*
> 
> 'We don't want to have transactional engagements with one another, where we only come together when we need something," Brooks said. "We need to have more substantial relationships that can be built over time.'"


well, I recall our victories over the mighty armies of mongolians and manchus, while these barbarians conquered china, took your princesses and enslaved chinese men 



Cossack25A1 said:


> Now, I am just going to watch and eat popcorn on this thread.


share some popcorn with me

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

US wants India's direct intervention in the South China Sea row






NEW DELHI: Less than two months after the release of the US-India Joint Strategic Vision statement for the Asia-Pacific region during President Barack Obama's visit, one of America's top military commanders has made it clear that China has no right in opposing Indian naval operations in the disputed South China Sea.

*Admiral Harry Harris Jr*, whose area of responsibility extends to the Pacific and Indian Oceans, said, "_The South China seas are international waters and India should be able to operate freely wherever India wants to operate. If that means the South China Sea, then get in there and do that._"

In July 2011, when the Indian Navy amphibious warfare ship INS Shardul set course from the Nha Trang military port in south Vietnam towards Haiphong port in north Vietnam to make a friendly visit, she was buzzed on an open radio channel and told by the Chinese Navy, "You are entering Chinese waters. Move out of here." In 2014, China opposed the India-Vietnam agreement which would enable the state-owned Oil and Natural Gas Corporation (ONGC) to explore oil wells in waters which China claims to administer.

Voicing his concerns on China's regional disputes in the South China Sea, Admiral Harris said, "I view with concern China's land reclamation process. I think it's provocative, and it causes tensions to be raised in the South China Sea and all of the countries in the South China seas. So, I am concerned about it. For all of us who are concerned about freedom of navigation, it behoves us to pay attention to what China is doing in the South China Sea and its dramatic land reclamation. They are, in fact, changing facts on the ground."

Though the US Admiral did note the increased Chinese submarine presence in the Indian Ocean, his primary concern was on safeguarding maritime security and ensuring the freedom of navigation in the South China Sea, very much in line with the joint statement released by the US and Indian delegations during President Obama's visit to New Delhi in January.

China, for its part, claims much or all of the South China Sea as its territorial waters. The region contains several islands, reefs and sandbars and is thought to be a region enormously rich in hydrocarbons, particularly around the highly disputed Spratly Islands.

Though this has remained largely unstated in public, the United States sees India as a key part of its pivot towards the Asia-Pacific region. Not only is the Indian Navy one of the most powerful forces in the region, it is a useful training partner which engages the US Navy in exceptionally high-level wargames in the annual Malabar series of exercises which are held during the fall. According to Admiral Harris, "I was involved with Malabar 1995 and now you look at Malabar 2014, and it is leaps and bounds beyond what it was. I would like to have an increase with India in special operations exercises."

Last year, India opened up the Malabar exercises to include Japan, a strong ally of both New Delhi and Washington. Australia, another regional partner of the US and India, also has concerns with Chinese naval expansionism.

While India and the United States stand committed to engaging China economically, a new strategic order clearly seems in the process of being established across both the Pacific and Indian Oceans with the US being the big brother.

"As part of the US rebound, the Pacific fleet is going to get bigger. 60 per cent of the US Navy will be in the Pacific fleet by 2020. For me, my area of responsibility for the US Navy is the Pacific and Indian Oceans and so, I say that my area of responsibility goes from Hollywood to Bollywood and Polar Bears to Penguins. So that's kind of all of it. That's 52 per cent of the world. That's my area of responsibility," Admiral Harris said. The US sees India as an important part of this new order.


----------



## BoQ77

Martian2 said:


> *I like the US strategy. Let's use India as cannon fodder!*
> 
> India already tried to sail a warship through the South China Sea.
> 
> China "escorted" it out. A single Indian warship surrounded by a multitude of larger Chinese destroyers, submarines, and overhead J-11B fighter aircraft is a sitting duck.
> 
> If India does not follow the instructions of the escort commander, China will impound the Indian ship.



Very interesting news. Give us the source for more details, ok ? @DRAY


----------



## Martian2

BoQ77 said:


> Very interesting news. Give us the source for more details, ok ? @DRAY


In South China Sea, a surprise Chinese escort for Indian ships - The Hindu

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

Martian2 said:


> In South China Sea, a surprise Chinese escort for Indian ships - The Hindu



The article is not exactly what you said in previous post. Does it mean you modified or interpolated the article in purpose ?
All we get is a Chinese ship shadow 4 Indian ships during 12 hours in the international water.

Lately, that Chinese ship was ordered to move away.

Your post


> China "escorted" it out. A single Indian warship surrounded by a multitude of larger Chinese destroyers, submarines, and overhead J-11B fighter aircraft is a sitting duck.
> 
> If India does not follow the instructions of the escort commander, China will impound the Indian ship



Your link to this source:


> For the next 12 hours, the Chinese warship would provide an unscheduled escort to the four Indian vessels. The PLAN frigate was aware that the four ships were also going to visit Shanghai later in the month during their month-long tour; yet that they insisted on providing an escort through what India and other countries view as international waters underscored for officials how Beijing increasingly views one of the world's most important waterways.
> 
> “The tone of the message was welcoming, but was also as though we were entering Chinese waters,” said an official who did not want to be named. The Chinese ship left the Shivalik's side after 12 hours, revealing that it had been instructed to move away by the PLAN.


----------



## Martian2

BoQ77 said:


> The article is not exactly what you said in previous post. Does it mean you modified or interpolated the article in purpose ?
> All we get is a Chinese ship shadow 4 Indian ships during 12 hours in the international water.


That was just a warning and it was three years ago. China's control of the South China Sea is tightening.

Have you already forgotten that PLA Navy stopped the USS Cowpens?

Last year, a PLA Navy flotilla has been patrolling the South China Sea (see citation below).

Tensions Set To Rise In The South China Sea | The Diplomat

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## BoQ77

Martian2 said:


> That was just a warning and it was three years ago. China's control of the South China Sea is tightening.
> 
> Have you already forgotten that PLA Navy stopped the USS Cowpens?



Why you provide us by fake news ? Read again and revise it, ok? Thanks


----------



## Martian2

BoQ77 said:


> Why you provide us by fake news ? Read again and revise it, ok? Thanks



I said that's what the Indians will face when they come back again. The citation speaks for itself.

"If India does not follow the instructions of the escort commander, China *will* impound the Indian ship."

"Will" means future tense. A future event.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Martian2

BoQ77 said:


> In your post, all verbs in past tense. Am I wrong?



Read it again. I didn't say "had."
----------

*US encourages India to become South China Sea cannon fodder*

1. Indian warships had already been "escorted" by a PLA Navy frigate, which happened three years ago.

2. Two years ago, China started conducting PLA Navy warship patrols.

3. Last year, China "escorted" out the USS Cowpens.

4. The PLA Navy Air Force is conducting routine patrols of the South China Sea (see citation below).

PLA Navy conducts patrol and high-sea training

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## BoQ77

Martian2 said:


> *I like the US strategy. Let's use India as cannon fodder!*
> 
> India already tried to sail a warship through the South China Sea.
> 
> China "escorted" it out. A single Indian warship surrounded by a multitude of larger Chinese destroyers, submarines, and overhead J-11B fighter aircraft is a sitting duck.
> 
> If India does not follow the instructions of the escort commander, China will impound the Indian ship.



So in this news, how many Chinese ship or aircraft engage ?
How many Indian ships related ?
Who move away ? Chinese ship or Indian ships ?


----------



## jhungary

Martian2 said:


> That was just a warning and it was three years ago. China's control of the South China Sea is tightening.
> 
> Have you already forgotten that PLA Navy stopped the USS Cowpens?
> 
> Last year, a PLA Navy flotilla has been patrolling the South China Sea (see citation below).
> 
> Tensions Set To Rise In The South China Sea | The Diplomat



lol Chinese ask the Cowpens to leave the area and have no response, then the PLAN cross the cowpens 500 yards in front with a LPD. That is not stopping the Cowpens, that's being stupid....What if Cowpens does not stop in time? The bow of cowpens would slice thru the LPD and many men in both ship would have been killed.

That was nothing to be proud of.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Martian2

*US doesn't care about Vietnam: Top 7 reasons*

1. Vietnam is a communist country. The US has NEVER signed a defense treaty with a communist nation.

2. In 1974, South Vietnam was a US ally. The United States did nothing as China took over the Paracel Islands in 1974.

3. The United States has proclaimed forty years of neutrality in the South China Sea. In the latest incidents, the United States publicly proclaimed neutrality in June and December of 2014.

4. The United States is downsizing the Army to 450,000 troops. The United States will match the post-World War II low in Army strength. The United States does not plan to fight a war.

It is impossible to fight against China's 2.2-million PLA Army with only 450,000 troops.

Army Veterans Recall Layoffs from Previous Eras | Military.com
"Army Veterans Recall Layoffs from Previous Eras
Sep 10, 2014 | by Brendan McGarry
...
After rising to 570,000 soldiers in 2008 during the war in Iraq, the Army has less than 520,000 soldiers today and is on pace to shrink to 490,000 soldiers by next year. It's bracing for even further reductions driven by automatic budget cuts known as sequestration.

*The Pentagon's proposed budget for 2015 calls for the service's end-strength to decrease to 440,000-450,000 soldiers by 2017. If sequestration remains in effect, the number may fall to as low as 420,000 soldiers* -- tens of thousands less than the figure the Army's top officer, Gen. Raymond Odierno, said is needed to respond adequately to conflicts around the world."

5. The Pentagon insists on protecting its ties with China.

US Army Protects China Ties Despite Tensions | DefenseNews
"US Army Protects China Ties Despite Tensions
By Joe Gould | 10:17 p.m. EST March 4, 2015
...
Amid reports the Pentagon has paused efforts to expand defense ties with China until the two nations can agree on rules for airborne encounters between their warplanes, *Gen. Vincent Brooks, chief of US Army Pacific (USARPAC), said he received no instructions to reduce his engagements with the People's Liberation Army.*
...
The US Army will continue to receive Chinese official visits at US Army Pacific headquarters, plan events with the Chinese and maintain ties under the 'sufficient latitude' that policy guidelines provide, Brooks said. *The command, for example, is in talks to hold exchanges between mid-career officials from the two nations.*

'We don't want to have transactional engagements with one another, where we only come together when we need something," Brooks said. "We need to have more substantial relationships that can be built over time.'"

6. US gave Vietnam a paltry $28 million in military aid for 2014. $18 million for five patrol boats and $10 million for demining operations. In contrast, Israel received $3.4 BILLION.

Israel Hayom | Israel aid remains untouched in 2014 US budget proposal
"Apr 11, 2013 - Israel would receive $3.4 billion in total military aid under the 2014 U.S. budget proposal sent to Congress by President Barack Obama on ..."

7. China is a very important market to the United States. US carmakers sold 4.6 million cars in China (GM: 3.5 million; Ford: 1.1 million). In contrast, US carmakers sold only 19,000 cars in Vietnam last year.

Ford, GM post double-digit sales gains in China | Automotive News
"Ford, GM post double-digit sales gains in China
January 8, 2015 - 7:03 am ET

SHANGHAI (Reuters) -- Ford Motor Co. and General Motors posted double-digit sales gains in China last year, the automakers reported this week.

Ford and its Chinese joint ventures sold 1.11 million vehicles, up 19 percent from the previous year, Ford said today.
...
Meanwhile, GM and its Chinese partners sold a record 3,539,970 vehicles in China in 2014, up 12 percent from the previous year, the U.S. automaker said on Tuesday."

Vietnam's automotive sales leap 43% in 2014: trade association
"Thaco was the market leader with the number of cars sold hitting 42,339 vehicles in 2014, followed by Toyota (40,820), *Ford (13,988)*, Honda (6,492), and *Vietnam GM (5,134)*."

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## BoQ77

Martian2 said:


> 3. Last year, China "escorted" out the USS Cowpens.



How you consider "escorted" ? describe how China escorted the USS Cowpens ?


----------



## Martian2

BoQ77 said:


> How you consider "escorted" ? describe how China escorted the USS Cowpens ?


I don't do endless semantic arguments. I've said all I will say on the subject.

I only care about substance. I have something to say. Once I've made my point, the message's merit is to be decided by the reader.

I want to convey two points.

1. US encourages India to become cannon fodder in the South China Sea.
2. US doesn't care about Vietnam.

The reader decides whether my analysis is correct or not.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## BoQ77

Martian2 said:


> I don't do endless semantic arguments. I've said all I will say on the subject.
> 
> I only care about substance. I have something to say. Once I've made my point, the message's merit is to be decided by the reader.
> 
> I want to convey two points.
> 
> 1. US encourages India to become cannon fodder in the South China Sea.
> 2. US doesn't care about Vietnam.
> 
> The reader decides whether my analysis is correct or not.



Ok. Done. And don't post fake news anymore !!!


----------



## Martian2

BoQ77 said:


> Ok. Done. And don't post fake news anymore !!!


It wasn't fake news.

I made a claim about the future. I used the word "will" repeatedly. You just don't understand English.

I never used the words "did" or "had."

Will = future tense, a future event

Did, Had = past tense, an event that already happened

So where's the problem?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## BoQ77

Martian2 said:


> It wasn't fake news.
> 
> I made a claim about the future. I used the word "will" repeatedly. You just don't understand English.
> 
> I never used the words "did" or "had."



Again, when describe a Chinese ship shadows 4 Indian ships with welcome greeting in international water, and lately Chinese ship move away after 12 hours. You must be loyal to the source.

You described that a single Indian ships was escorted by many Chinese bigger destroyers, subs, Aircrafts ... and would be shot if not move out.

That why I call you faked the news.


----------



## Martian2

BoQ77 said:


> Again, when describe a Chinese ship shadows 4 Indian ships with welcome greeting in international water, and lately Chinese ship move away after 12 hours. You must be loyal to the source.
> 
> You described that a single Indian ships was escorted by many Chinese bigger destroyers, subs, Aircrafts ... and would be shot if not move out.
> 
> That what I call you faked the news.



Get a book on grammar. You read the sentences in the way that you wanted to. That's your problem.

I used the word "will" many times. That's the best I can do.

I have a better idea. I'll start to post my views as individual threads, so I don't have to keep debating "word usage" with you.

You're just like Gambit, jhungary, and many Indians. You seem to enjoy endless argument. I just want to talk about substance.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Pangu

Those islands are looking great! I wonder how many sand bucket we used, lol.


Martian2 said:


> I don't do endless semantic arguments. I've said all I will say on the subject.
> 
> I only care about substance. I have something to say. Once I've made my point, the message's merit is to be decided by the reader.
> 
> I want to convey two points.
> 
> 1. US encourages India to become cannon fodder in the South China Sea.
> 2. US doesn't care about Vietnam.
> 
> The reader decides whether my analysis is correct or not.



Nice analysis.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## jhungary

BoQ77 said:


> How you consider "escorted" ? describe how China escorted the USS Cowpens ?



lol this man is writing check he cannot cash........as with most of the troll here

Some time ago, he claim Huawei is the Biggest Telecommunication company in the world, but in fact it sold the most telecommunication equipment.lol

So, forget about him, you should look at more neutral news such as this

Vietnam, the US, and Japan in the South China Sea | The Diplomat

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Martian2

jhungary said:


> lol this man is writing check he cannot cash........as with most of the troll here
> 
> Some time ago, he claim Huawei is the Biggest Telecommunication company in the world, but in fact it sold the most telecommunication equipment.lol
> 
> So, forget about him, you should look at more neutral news such as this
> 
> Vietnam, the US, and Japan in the South China Sea | The Diplomat



Have you been living under a rock? Everybody knows Huawei sells telecommunication equipment.

If I say "Intel is the world's largest chip manufacturer," how many people would confuse Intel with a potato chip manufacturer? Probably only you.

Oh look, he didn't say "computer chip." I thought he meant Frito Lay, the potato chip giant!

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## BoQ77

jhungary said:


> lol this man is writing check he cannot cash........as with most of the troll here
> 
> Some time ago, he claim Huawei is the Biggest Telecommunication company in the world, but in fact it sold the most telecommunication equipment.lol
> 
> So, forget about him, you should look at more neutral news such as this
> 
> Vietnam, the US, and Japan in the South China Sea | The Diplomat



I'm just surprised how that guy could modify the source and make a fake news in such a way.
Refer to the news, he claimed Chinese destroyers and subs, forced out an Indian ship in SCS.
Read my previous posts.



Martian2 said:


> I said that's what the Indians will face when they come back again. The citation speaks for itself.
> 
> "If India does not follow the instructions of the escort commander, China *will* impound the Indian ship."
> 
> "Will" means future tense. A future event.



who is escort commander ? maybe escort commander in the future?


----------



## russiarussia

Martian2 do nothing wrong here. He just defended his ideas and i believe that his commets was more steady then the others. If you want to add someone’s name on a watchlist, add your name cuz you are the real troll.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Martian2

Malaysia’s South China Sea Policy: Playing It Safe | The Diplomat

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## ahojunk

Now back on topic.

Animation of Zhubi Island from 3 July 2014 to 27 Feb 2015.

Amazing.






22 Feb 2015 - 0.47 sq km (about the size of Taiping Island)
27 Feb 2015 - 0.93 sq km.
05 Mar 2015 - 1.18 sq km.
.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## areal

Keep L-Y-ing viet, PLA have finished all jobs on clearing mine on the China side of the border.
Most mine were set during 1980s, which was against Viet army.
Your mine is yours, don't blame any others.


Viet said:


> well, you can laugh days and nights if you like, but I say a big thank you to uncle sam for the $18 millions. it is the first time the US provides military aid. one should not forget, we receive another $10 millions for mine clearance this year.
> 
> US pledges $10 million for landmine clearance in Vietnam | Politics | Thanh Nien Daily
> 
> 
> from all of your bullshit bla bla bla post above, only I can agree to "The Malaysians are very smart". you obviously not. If you are dumb and retard, don´t make the mistake and assume other people are as dumb and retard as you.
> 
> a quiz for you:
> 
> the US gives us $10m for mine clearance this year, how much money does China give for mine clearance, mines and granates that aren´t exploded in north vietnam after the PLA bastards came destroying our cities killing our people?



Ally with US ? only if you dare.
Viet can survive until now just because its leaders have not been so crazy as you suggest.


Viet said:


> the US military budget is higher than yours. the balance of power will be altered if we ally with the US. you are a toast.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zero_wing

People who think war is a game are morons


----------



## ahojunk

Vietnam has scant legal basis for South China Sea claims｜Op-Ed Contributors｜Opinion｜WantChinaTimes.com

*Vietnam has scant legal basis for South China Sea claims*
Chang Ching, 2015-02-12






Vietnam's claim of sovereignty to islands in the South China Sea has scant legal basis, judging from the scope of its territory at various junctures of its history.

While Vietnam was under colonial rule, France laid claim to the Paracels, saying the archipelago belonged to Vietnam from ancient times, but it failed to push the claim as the monarchs of the Nguyen Dynasty, then under the French protectorate, were lukewarm concerning the claim.

In addition, Vietnamese maps printed during the French colonial era did not cover the islands nor did any official document from the time underscore effective administration of them by France.

Moreover, there is no documentary trace showing a transfer of sovereignty over the islands by the French government to the new regime when Vietnam won independence. Since the islands were not included in Vietnam's territory under French rule, how could France return the ownership during the change of power?

At the conference in 1951 that culminated in the Treaty of San Francisco that officially ended World War II, France and Vietnam failed to win support for Vietnam's claim to South China Sea islands, even in the absence of a China representative from either side of the Taiwan Straits. This is further evidence of the lack of a legal basis for the Vietnamese claim. As a result, the San Francisco Peace Treaty only included Japan renouncing its claims to the Spratly and the Paracel islands, without specifying their ownership.

It would be advisable to have France admit its failure to secure any legal basis for Vietnam's claim to South China Sea islets during its period of colonial rule.

(Chang Ching is a researcher at the Taipei-based Society for Strategic Studies ROC. Translated by Want China Times.)

.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## VALKRYIE

At least there's a few unbias, sane and rational people on this issue


----------



## ahojunk

Beijing defends South China Sea reclamation｜Politics｜News｜WantChinaTimes.com

*Beijing defends South China Sea reclamation*

Xinhua and Staff Reporter
2015-03-08
16:50 (GMT+8)







China's construction of islands and reefs in the South China Sea is lawful and justified, as China is merely building facilities in its own yard, the country's foreign minister Wang Yi said Sunday.

Wang made the remarks at a press conference on the sidelines of the annual session of the National People's Congress, China's top legislature.

The minister's response came in light of newly released satellite images, taken by a commercial satellite division of Airbus Group, of a first glimpse at the dramatic pace of China's expansion of artificial island construction on disputed South China Sea reefs, according to the Wall Street Journal. The spokeswoman for the Foreign Ministry of Vietnam, another claimant of the Spratly islands where the expansion is taking place, has already voiced Vietnam's "strong protests" over the construction.

China has been undertaking various development activities in the South China Sea to fortify its claims over key territory without the use of military force. Just last year, Vietnam and China came to blows over a Chinese state-owned oil rig off the contested Paracel islands.

Other claimants of the disputed Spratly island chain are Vietnam, the Philippines, Taiwan, Malaysia and Brunei.

------------------------------------------------

BEIJING—China’s foreign minister, Wang Yi defended China's efforts in reclaiming and developing land around reefs and islands in the South China Sea, saying the work was “necessary” and posed no threat to other nations.

“This construction does not target or affect anyone,” Wang Yi said at a news conference Sunday on the sidelines of an annual meeting of parliament.

“We are not like some countries who engage in illegal construction in another person’s house, and we do not accept criticism from others when we are merely building facilities in our own yard. We have every right to do things that are lawful and justified.”

.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

*China Activitieson Disputed Islands Fuels Fear of Military Buildup - Psaki
02:58 10.03.2015
According to US Department of State spokesperson Jen Psaki, China’s development activities on disputed territory around the Spratly Islands are feeding suspicions that Beijing aims to establish military bases across the South China Sea.*

WASHINGTON (Sputnik) — China’s development activities on disputed territory around the Spratly Islands are feeding suspicions that Beijing aims to establish military bases across the South China Sea, according to US Department of State spokesperson Jen Psaki.

“China’s land reclamation and construction activities are fueling greater anxiety within the region about China’s intensions amid concerns they may militarize outposts in disputed land features in the South China Sea,” Psaki said on Monday.

Psaki noted the United States are aware of recent reports about China intensifying construction around the Spratly Islands, and called on all claimants within the region to avoid provocative actions.

“We [the United States] are watching these developments closely, and will continue to raise our concerns with China and urge all parties to avoid destabilizing activities,” Psaki concluded.

China’s territorial claims around the Spratly Islands contradict those of Taiwan, Malaysia, Brunei, Philippines and Vietnam. The Spratly Islands hold potentially significant oil and gas reserves.

On Sunday, Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi said construction on reefs that China controls near the disputed islands, are lawful and pose no threat to other countries.



Read more: China Activities on Disputed Islands Fuels Fear of Military Buildup - Psaki / Sputnik International


----------



## yusheng



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ahojunk

Re: Subi Island - 10 March 2015:-

Compared to the pic on 5 March 2015, there is not a lot of difference in term of size.



Re: Yongshu Island - 10 March 2015:-

The area is now fairly stable. There looks to be a water reservoir on the island.

I can see lots of building activities going on in the northern part and also the part next to the reservoir.

As someone says, maybe we may see a casino or a shopping mall there. lol.
.


----------



## areal

Hi, Friends, I'd like to make a polite clarification over the term, 'disputed territory', or 'disputed water'. It does not mean the islands that are guarded by PLA navy, but those illegally stolen and occupied by Vietnam, Philippine, Malaysia.
So, China does whatever it wants to do in its own yard or pool, which has nothing with others. Only th-ieves will worry their positions.
Want to stop being anxiety about the situations? Great, just return the islands and reefs to China, you will receive a word, 'thanks'. 
by the way, it is not China, but VIETNAM who started the reclamation competition, China just made a proper response to those poor engineering technique demonstrated by a poor country called Vietnam. Now you guys know what is the most scientific reclamation way, right? 
Vietnam started the competition, and broke the DOC at first, then it should learn to shut up before the situations brought by it.


BoQ77 said:


> *China Activitieson Disputed Islands Fuels Fear of Military Buildup - Psaki
> 02:58 10.03.2015
> According to US Department of State spokesperson Jen Psaki, China’s development activities on disputed territory around the Spratly Islands are feeding suspicions that Beijing aims to establish military bases across the South China Sea.*
> 
> WASHINGTON (Sputnik) — China’s development activities on disputed territory around the Spratly Islands are feeding suspicions that Beijing aims to establish military bases across the South China Sea, according to US Department of State spokesperson Jen Psaki.
> 
> “China’s land reclamation and construction activities are fueling greater anxiety within the region about China’s intensions amid concerns they may militarize outposts in disputed land features in the South China Sea,” Psaki said on Monday.
> 
> Psaki noted the United States are aware of recent reports about China intensifying construction around the Spratly Islands, and called on all claimants within the region to avoid provocative actions.
> 
> “We [the United States] are watching these developments closely, and will continue to raise our concerns with China and urge all parties to avoid destabilizing activities,” Psaki concluded.
> 
> China’s territorial claims around the Spratly Islands contradict those of Taiwan, Malaysia, Brunei, Philippines and Vietnam. The Spratly Islands hold potentially significant oil and gas reserves.
> 
> On Sunday, Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi said construction on reefs that China controls near the disputed islands, are lawful and pose no threat to other countries.
> 
> 
> 
> Read more: China Activities on Disputed Islands Fuels Fear of Military Buildup - Psaki / Sputnik International

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## 70U63

China urges ASEAN secretary-general to stay neutral on South China Sea issue - Global Times

Things are going to get interesting...


----------



## yusheng

3月初，福建海运集团“金海鸥”轮在长江口顺利交接，开始承运从八所港、北海港至南沙群岛的砂石运输任务，成功开启了南沙群岛新航线。

福建海运集团积极认真地做好开辟新航线的各项准备工作，从港口、航线、气象、人员保障等方面开展评估，制定了切实可行的具体操作方案；鉴于政治安全要求等综合考虑，还为该轮船员办理完妥了无犯罪记录证明等相关政审文件。南沙群岛砂石运输新兴航线的航次任务顺利执行进一步拓展了海运集团的货源网络，优化了公司的航线布局。

船舶名称：金海鸥 国 籍：中国 船舶类型：干散货船 总载重吨：43764 
起吊能力：4*30 总 长：190M 满载吃水：11.221M 航 区：无限航区 

Ship name: golden plover countries record: China ship types: dry bulk total deadweight tonnage: 43764
Lifting capacity: 4 * 30 total length: 190 M full draft: 11.221 M navigation area: world-wide 

In early march, fujian shipping group "golden plover" in the Yangtze river estuary smooth handover, began to undertake from eight port, beihai port to the nansha islands of sand transport task, successfully opened up new routes the nansha islands.


Fujian shipping group, positive seriously do the preparations for the opening up new routes, from the port, routes, meteorology, personnel, security and other aspects to carry out the assessment, made the concrete operation of the feasible solutions;Given the political security requirements such as comprehensive consideration, but also for the wheel crew deal with no criminal record certificate and other related political check file.The nansha islands sand transport routes of emerging voyage task carried out smoothly to further expand the group of shipping supply network, optimize the route layout of the company.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## areal

Vietnam secretary obviously crossed the line.
It is not wise, Vietnam has let other members of ASEAN have more doubt about its motivation.


70U63 said:


> China urges ASEAN secretary-general to stay neutral on South China Sea issue - Global Times
> 
> Things are going to get interesting...

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## BoQ77

areal said:


> Vietnam secretary obviously crossed the line.
> It is not wise, Vietnam has let other members of ASEAN have more doubt about its motivation.



so naive to think that General secretary get no agreement from inside before the conclusion.


----------



## Taygibay

Cossack25A1 said:


> And in general, by following that logic, successor states to the empires of ancient times should do what China does today.


Why not? 

By that token, France once own Western Russia under Napoleon & no matter how briefly…
then again Russian troops did invade Paris ( no matter how briefly ), an entirely different matter.

OH? I think I know where yore going with this, fine example! 

GN Tay.


----------



## areal

Good, just let the rest nine countries come out to show the agreement, what a joke.


BoQ77 said:


> so naive to think that General secretary get no agreement from inside before the conclusion.


----------



## ahojunk

China starts work on Mischief Reef land reclamation - IHS Jane's 360

*China starts work on Mischief Reef land reclamation*
*James Hardy, London and Sean O'Connor, Indianapolis, IN* - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
11 March 2015






China has begun to create land on Mischief Reef in Beijing's latest move to firm up its South China Sea claims.

_IHS Maritime_ identified the dredger as _Tian Kai_ , a trailing suction hopper dredger operated by CCCC Tianjin Dredging Co Ltd that was in the area from 14 January to 16 February.

The Airbus imagery shows _Tian Kai_ dredging a channel close to one of China's existing platforms in the reef, and depositing the spoil on the reef to create a landmass.

China's existing presence on Mischief Reef consisted of two small concrete platforms that included buildings and shelters for fishermen.

Other data from _IHS Maritime_ suggests that China is deploying its latest China Coast Guard (CCG) offshore patrol vessels to monitor potential outside interest in the dredging activities. AISLive data showed that _Haijing 3307_ , a 3000-tonne OPV fitted with water cannon and capable of embarking a helicopter, patrolled an area to the southeast of Mischief Reef from 5 to 24 January and again from 12 to 27 February.

Chinese media have also released satellite images suggesting China is beginning to create a landmass at Subi Reef, which is about 25 km southwest of the Philippine-occupied Thitu Island: Manila's only Spratly island to have an airstrip. China's presence on Subi Reef previously consisted of a concrete platform that included buildings, a helipad, and geodesic dome probably fitted with communications equipment.

Meanwhile, Beijing has reacted strongly to comments by the Vietnamese head of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) in which he rejected China's 'dashed-line claim' to the South China Sea.

ASEAN secretary general Le Luong Minh told Philippine reporters in Jakarta on 4 March that all ASEAN claimants opposed the dotted line concept because it did not accord with the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) and because the dotted line covered "90% of the South China Sea".

"There is no way it can be accepted by any party to UNCLOS," Le said.

Le described China's land reclamation activities in the Spratly Islands as potentially dangerous as they were changing "the status quo".

"The expansion and illegal [occupation] of islands affect the status quo and [they are] complicating the situation," he added.

Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong Lei responded on 11 March by saying that ASEAN was not a party to the South China Sea dispute and that Le "has many times made partisan statements that do not accord with the facts nor suit his position" as ASEAN secretary general.

"This is a serious deviation from the neutral position ASEAN and its secretary general ought to have on the relevant issue, and damages the image of ASEAN as a regional international organisation," Hong added.
.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## BoQ77

Oh my ... Mischief Reef definitely belongs to Philippines @Cossack25A1 @Zero_wing ?


----------



## Cossack25A1

BoQ77 said:


> Oh my ... Mischief Reef definitely belongs to Philippines @Cossack25A1 @Zero_wing ?



It belongs to PH, unless China goes_ Anschluss_ against us, decapitates our government and installs an anti-America/ pro-China puppet government in place.


----------



## Zero_wing

BoQ77 said:


> Oh my ... Mischief Reef definitely belongs to Philippines @Cossack25A1 @Zero_wing ?



This good for the case thats all am saying


----------



## opruh

BoQ77 said:


> Oh my ... Mischief Reef definitely belongs to Philippines @Cossack25A1 @Zero_wing ?


No, it is a disputed reef just like all the other reefs and islands currently occupied by Vietnam and the Philippines.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ahojunk

opruh said:


> No, it is a disputed reef just like all the other reefs and islands currently occupied by Vietnam and the Philippines.



Yes, the reefs and islands in the Spratlys are disputed.

China says that they belong to them and are stolen by the Viets and Pinoys. 

Now the Chinese are reclaiming them.
.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zero_wing

ahojunk said:


> Yes, the reefs and islands in the Spratlys are disputed.
> 
> China says that they belong to them and are stolen by the Viets and Pinoys.
> 
> Now the Chinese are reclaiming them.
> .



We dont want to go to war yet so let the chinese build islands its never gonna fly with the international community anyway so let them build and will be building our military assets if they attack us will fight but we will not start the war it will be the chinese.


----------



## luoyue

ahojunk said:


> Yes, the reefs and islands in the Spratlys are disputed.
> 
> China says that they belong to them and are stolen by the Viets and Pinoys.
> 
> Now the Chinese are reclaiming them.
> .



China robbed from Viets recently, 1988. Don't forget it.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Tom99

ahojunk said:


> *China starts work on Mischief Reef land reclamation*
> *James Hardy, London and Sean O'Connor, Indianapolis, IN* - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
> 11 March 2015
> 
> View attachment 202329




Anyone ocean-ologist or water current-ologist here know why China start the reclamination at that particular area of the reef? It seems like some of the sand just flows back into the dredged channel.


----------



## LacViet

This reefs don't have its coastline, just for bring back 7th flotta of US Navy in to region base on free navigation and stability , peace for Asia.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## opruh

luoyue said:


> China robbed from Viets recently, 1988. Don't forget it.


So sad, you can cry in the corner.
You should be thankful that China is generous enough to allow the existence of Vietnam, now don't be greedy and stop your nonsense claims on those islands.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Zero_wing

opruh said:


> So sad, you can cry in the corner.
> You should be thankful that China is generous enough to allow the existence of Vietnam, now don't be greedy and stop your nonsense claims on those islands.



Why should anyone be thankful for if your being threaten china has no right to threaten anyone in fact china should be thankful for the world generosity that its still a nation on earth hey bihon remove my country flag from you post or chinese are really uncivilized that they have no respect for anyone.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## luoyue

opruh said:


> So sad, you can cry in the corner.
> You should be thankful that China is generous enough to allow the existence of Vietnam, now don't be greedy and stop your nonsense claims on those islands.



Chinese ran back from Vietnam many time, do you know it ?


----------



## Sam.

Singapore said it wants India to play a bigger role in the South China Sea as China hastens land reclamation in the disputed waters that carry some of the world’s busiest shipping lanes.

Singapore has been a strong supporter of India’s increased engagement in the region through security forums, Defense Minister Ng Eng Hen said in an interview on Monday after a meeting with Southeast Asian counterparts in Langkawi, an island in Malaysia. The group declared its commitment to the principle of no first use of force, he said.

“We hope that their presence and participation will increase — that really adds up to engagement and confidence building and mutual understanding,” Ng said, referring to Asia’s third-biggest economy. “India is a big country and it’s an influential country.”


India’s involvement in the region could give Southeast Asian nations a further buffer against China as that country seeks to enforce its claims to the majority of the South China Sea and push back against decades of U.S. military dominance in the Pacific. China is also looking to build a maritime trade route linking a network of ports through the Indian Ocean with Europe via the Suez Canal, a prospect that has unnerved India.

Ng’s comments follow calls for Japan to separately play an enhanced role in the South China Sea. Vice-Admiral Robert Thomas, commander of the Navy’s Seventh Fleet, said in January the U.S. would welcome an extension of Japan’s air surveillance into the area, while Defense Minister Gen Nakatani said last month that Japan would consider conducting air and sea patrols. Japan and China are separately embroiled in a territorial dispute in the East China Sea.

*Nine-Dash Line*
China says it’s entitled to about four-fifths of the South China Sea, based on a nine-dash line drawn on a 1940s map that loops down like a cow’s tongue to a point about 1,800 kilometers (1,119 miles) south from China’s Hainan island. The area overlaps claims from Vietnam, Malaysia, the Philippines, Brunei and Taiwan.

Southeast Asian nations are worried about China building multistory mall-like structures on the Cuarteron and Gaven reefs, Philippine Defense spokesman Peter Paul Galvez told reporters in Manila last week. The Philippines is relying on diplomatic protests and arbitration to address China’s “blatant disregard” of a 2002 non-binding declaration of conduct in the waters, he said.

China has reclaimed land around Fiery Cross Reef to create an island large enough to enable its first airstrip in the Spratly Islands, IHS Jane’s reported Nov. 20, citing satellite pictures. The Spratlys are a collection of more than 100 islands or reefs that dot the southern South China Sea.

*Explain Actions*
China will have to explain its actions and how they comply with the 2002 agreement, Ng said. The declaration between China and the Association of Southeast Asian Nations calls on parties to refrain from “inhabiting on the presently uninhabited islands, reefs, shoals, cays and other features.”

China has every right to carry out construction on its territory and won’t accept criticism from others about its “legal and reasonable” work, Foreign Minister Wang Yi said on March 8. “We are not comparable to some countries that like to build illegal houses on others’ territory.”

The U.S. has urged China to stop reclaiming land, while the Philippines and China have frequently traded accusations over their territorial claims and encounters between fishing and military vessels.

*Projecting Power*
“The reclaimed features will enable China to station warships, coast guard vessels and aircraft on a permanent basis in the Spratlys, thus enabling it to project and sustain its military and paramilitary assets far further south than it had previously been able to do so,” said Ian Storey, senior fellow at the Institute of Southeast Asian Studies in Singapore.

Greater Indian involvement in the South China Sea would risk raising tensions with China and complicate its efforts to assert control of the Indian Ocean, waters that carry most of the world’s oil trade. Prime Minister Narendra Modi is starting to bulk up his naval forces to assert control in the waters and prevent China from establishing a military foothold.

India last month increased its defense budget by 11 percent to $40 billion and approved the building of six nuclear-powered submarines, triple what it currently has in service, as well as seven new frigates. Modi is concerned that China wants to expand its military presence in the region by establishing naval bases in Indian Ocean ports, a theory first expounded by U.S. consultant Booz Allen Hamilton in a 2005 report for Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld.

*Oil Imports*
China argues that its interests are purely economic, and that it wants to protect vital sea lines of communications that bring it energy supplies from the Middle East. Forty percent of its oil imports pass through the Straits of Hormuz, and that figure doubles to more than 80 percent in the Malacca Strait on the other side of the Indian Ocean.

“We’ve said so to our Indian counterparts, we feel that we benefit from their presence, from their voice, and we’ll continue to take that line,” said Ng. “How they respond to their own interpretation of events in the Indian Ocean is up to them.”

During the meeting, the defense ministers noted the threat posed by Islamic State and its growing influence across the globe, Malaysian Defense Minister Hussein Hishammuddin said in a statement Monday. The ministers agreed that collaboration to tackle the threat should include the sharing of intelligence, he said.

India Should Play Bigger Role in South China Sea, Says Singapore | idrw.org

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## TheTruth

India should play a bigger role in actually improving living standards for her people, instead of pretending that they will ever be a dominant military power in Asia. They're probably just baiting you into killing more of your own children through neglect.

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## Jlaw

TheTruth said:


> India should play a bigger role in actually improving living standards for her people, instead of pretending that they will ever be a dominant military power in Asia. They're probably just baiting you into killing more of your own children through neglect.



I think India should play more of a world police like the US. They have population dividend.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Genesis

this is the most popular thread ever man. I seen it posted at least 3 times already. lol


----------



## Bussard Ramjet

No need. Asia is big for two tigers. 

India and China should cooperate to form a clear demarcation of areas of strategic interest. 

China should get the East and South China Sea, while India should get the nearby Indian ocean. Both should promise that they won't work against the other's interests.



TheTruth said:


> India should play a bigger role in actually improving living standards for her people, instead of pretending that they will *ever be a dominant military power* in Asia. They're probably just baiting you into killing more of your own children through neglect.



Did not expect this from you my friend. It is the same thing that the Americans and Japanese said about Chinese, and see where China is now. I don't know what you mean here by "Asia", but our goal is largely to be a military power in our peripheral areas which is the SAARC, and most importantly the Indian Ocean.


----------



## Sam.

Jlaw said:


> I think India should play more of a world police like the US. They have population dividend.



We are doing humanity work


----------



## luoyue

This is Indian look to East policy. welcome.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Keel

Singapore is playing games

China and India are 2 different countries
Our military spending is primarily used for defence






桃核镂空雕【蟹篓】
Openwork nut (fruit pit) carving 
(Crab basket) 4 crabs crawling outside and 
one inside of the hollow basket, The artwork 
is a half-thumb sized micro sculpture


----------



## TheTruth

Bussard Ramjet said:


> Did not expect this from you my friend. It is the same thing that the Americans and Japanese said about Chinese, and see where China is now. I don't know what you mean here by "Asia", but our goal is largely to be a military power in our peripheral areas which is the SAARC, and most importantly the Indian Ocean.



I don't even think China is seeking to be a dominant military power outside of the SCS region. Indian elites need to keep their egos in check and remember their job includes providing for their own people and not simply declaring such-and-such country is in "our" sphere of influence, and then trying to endlessly expand that influence.


----------



## Bussard Ramjet

TheTruth said:


> I don't even think China is seeking to be a dominant military power outside of the SCS region. Indian elites need to keep their egos in check and remember their job includes providing for their own people and not simply declaring such-and-such country is in "our" sphere of influence, and then trying to endlessly expand that influence.



My friend. We are indeed keeping them in view. By any metric India has done tremendous progress in human development. Check our literacy, per capita income, life expectancy etc. Yes, we are behind China. But is that a crime? In college you have many students. Do all people apart from the topper, all receive negative grades? China is a topper. Yes, we are behind. But still not too behind.

Rather, seeing China, our leaders have opened their eyes, and increasingly trying to emulate China. We both are big and important countries. It is only natural if we can co-operate to help each other out.


----------



## TheTruth

Bussard Ramjet said:


> My friend. We are indeed keeping them in view. By any metric India has done tremendous progress in human development. Check our literacy, per capita income, life expectancy etc. Yes, we are behind China. But is that a crime? In college you have many students. Do all people apart from the topper, all receive negative grades? China is a topper. Yes, we are behind. But still not too behind.
> 
> Rather, seeing China, our leaders have opened their eyes, and increasingly trying to emulate China. We both are big and important countries. It is only natural if we can co-operate to help each other out.



China has been extending her hand out in friendship for over 70 years ... the main obstacle is Indian elites, who cling desperately to the myth that China attacked India in 1962. I'm referring to the data showing that India spends 16% of the federal budget on defense, which is absurd considering most of their security concerns are self-created.


----------



## sicsheep

TheTruth said:


> I don't even think China is seeking to be a dominant military power outside of the SCS region. Indian elites need to keep their egos in check and remember their job includes providing for their own people and not simply declaring such-and-such country is in "our" sphere of influence, and then trying to endlessly expand that influence.



Just one more many distractions for India, which will slow its growth. I hope the Indian government doesn't know what is priority.

Countries like Philippines and Vietnam are desperate, 25-30% of VN GDP is from SCS oil production, but India has absolutely nothing to gain besides pissing off China. India invested gas operation in block 6.1 since 2003 is not even in the disputed territory. 

Countries do everything to profit, US, China, Russia, I just dont see anything for India in SCS.
India is not China, Vietnam is not Pakistan.


----------



## TheTruth

sicsheep said:


> Just one more many distractions for India, which will slow its growth. I hope the Indian government doesn't know what is priority.
> 
> Countries like Philippines and Vietnam are desperate, 25-30% of VN GDP is from SCS oil production, but India has absolutely nothing to gain besides pissing off China. India invested gas operation in block 6.1 since 2003 is not even in the disputed territory.
> 
> Countries do everything to profit, US, China, Russia, I just dont see anything for India in SCS.
> India is not China, Vietnam is not Pakistan.



Yes, if I were in charge of China and I hated India I would provoke them into strangling and overextending themselves.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## yyes538

china Should Play Bigger Role in Indian Ocean


----------



## NiceGuy

sicsheep said:


> Countries like Philippines and Vietnam are desperate, 25-30% of VN GDP is from SCS oil production, but India has absolutely nothing to gain besides pissing off China. India invested gas operation in block 6.1 since 2003 is not even in the disputed territory.
> 
> Countries do everything to profit, US, China, Russia, I just dont see anything for India in SCS.
> India is not China, Vietnam is not Pakistan.


VN will soon will join the TPP deal when China is not allowed. When no one buy CN cheap- illegal copied products, then CN economy will collapse

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Lux de Veritas

People will regret if they try to import Indian influence. India is world biggest Nazi state since Hitler and she has successfully annex numerous territory, like Hyderbad, Manipur, Goa, Sikkim, Kashmir...etc.

And wherereve overseas Indian go like Fiji, Carribean Trindad, Guyana, they made locals dalits and ridicule them as animals.

Otherwise like SE Asia where Hinduism once flourish, caste system plague like epidemic and there are still vestige of caste system in Bali, Indonesia. Thank you Islam for kicking out Hindus in SE Asia. While Islamo is no good, she is 10x better than Hindus.

Our God damn defence minister is shit and they best place he need to go is for a mental health check up.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## NiceGuy

Lux de Veritas said:


> People will regret if they try to import Indian influence. India is world biggest Nazi state since Hitler and she has successfully annex numerous territory, like Hyderbad, Manipur, Goa, Sikkim, Kashmir...etc.
> 
> And wherereve overseas Indian go like Fiji, Carribean Trindad, Guyana, they made locals dalits and ridicule them as animals.
> 
> Otherwise like SE Asia where Hinduism once flourish, caste system plague like epidemic and there are still vestige of caste system in Bali, Indonesia. Thank you Islam for kicking out Hindus in SE Asia. While Islamo is no good, she is 10x better than Hindus.
> 
> Our God damn defence minister is shit and they best place he need to go is for a mental health check up.


The world is changing, seem like US is supporting ASEAN nations to reduce Chinese ethnic in ASEAN region like what Myanmar is doing now . Chinese ethnic make more trouble than benefit to the region, Pol Pot- Myanmar rebels r clear example .

Indian ethnic in ASEAN is Ok and friendly to native ASEAN people

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Lux de Veritas

NiceGuy said:


> The world is changing, seem like US is supporting ASEAN nations to reduce Chinese ethnic in ASEAN region like what Myanmar is doing now . Chinese ethnic make more trouble than benefit to the region, Pol Pot- Myanmar rebels r clear example .
> 
> Indian ethnic in ASEAN is Ok and friendly to native ASEAN people



Its time you go stay in Trindad or Guyana. 

Mind you Indians hate NE Indians (Sino Tibetan), and claim our women are slut. Mass rape was conducted in Manipur. They make NE India such as shit hole of poverty that even Indian despise these North Easterners and ridicule them as chink.

They think Chink are stupid and not until they come Singapore, China, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Korea, Japan where by Chink shows them how shit hole India is.

Then these Indians decide the flee their shit hole into some Chink land hoping to kick us out. This is now happening in Singapore Chink land.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## NiceGuy

Lux de Veritas said:


> Its time you go stay in Trindad or Guyana.
> 
> Mind you Indians hate NE Indians (Sino Tibetan), and claim our women are slut. Mass rape was conducted in Manipur. They make NE India such as shit hole of poverty that even Indian despise these North Easterners and ridicule them as chink.
> 
> They think Chink are stupid and not until they come Singapore, China, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Korea, Japan where by Chink shows them how shit hole India is.
> 
> Then these Indians decide the flee their shit hole into some Chink land hoping to kick us out. This is now happening in Singapore Chink land.


Then u should blame Chinese ethic in ASEAN region, they make native ASEAN people hate them coz they r so arrogance (Mynamar rebel-Pol Pot) and making lots of trouble. 

U should blame US too, coz US welcome Indian's look East policy and US also support native ASEAN people to purge Chinese ethnic .

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Lux de Veritas

NiceGuy said:


> Then u should blame Chinese ethic in ASEAN region, they make native ASEAN people hate them coz they r so arrogance (Mynamar rebel-Pol Pot) and making lots of trouble.
> 
> U should blame US too, coz US welcome Indian's look East policy and US also support native ASEAN people to purge Chinese ethnic .



Pot is really the fault of Chinese. So is Vietnam. Without China hinterland, you guys will loss the war and continue as French colony.

I think that is likely to be a better arrangement as under French rule may be better than under Chi Minh.

But elsewhere, Chinese are far far hardworking than native.


----------



## NiceGuy

Lux de Veritas said:


> Pot is really the fault of Chinese. So is Vietnam. Without China hinterland, you guys will loss the war and continue as French colony.
> 
> I think that is likely to be a better arrangement as under French rule may be better than under Chi Minh.
> 
> But elsewhere, Chinese are far far hardworking than native.


Chairman Mao is a smart man, he supported VN to kick France-US out to avoid Revolution and conflict in China's border like what China has been suffering in Myanmar border.

Chinese are hardworking people, but ASEAN is not their home land, they r just 'boat men' in VN or 'rebels' in Myanmar. So , they'd better learn how to live with the land owners than making trouble

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Lux de Veritas

NiceGuy said:


> Chairman Mao is smart man, he supported VN to kick France-US out to avoid Revolution and conflict in China's border like what China has been suffering in Myanmar border.
> 
> Chinese are hardworking people, but ASEAN is not their home land, they r just 'boat men' in VN or 'rebels' in Myanmar. So , they'd better learn how to live with the land owners than making trouble



We know that is what SE Asian think of us and Singapore build the strongest military in the region.

Chinese is generally peaceful and assimilate as shown in white man land.

If you think Chinese migrants are tough, think about Islamo.

Also Kokang was not Myanmese land per se. It was Chinese land taken by British. Chinese was there far before Barmese and white man.


----------



## NiceGuy

Lux de Veritas said:


> We know that is what SE Asian think of us and Singapore build the strongest military in the region.
> 
> Chinese is generally peaceful and assimilate as shown in white man land.
> 
> If you think Chinese migrants are tough, think about Islamo.
> 
> Also Kokang was not Myanmese land per se. It was Chinese land taken by British. Chinese was there far before Barmese and white man.


Buying some US weapon can not make you to become No 1 military power in the region, Singapore is just too small to scare anyone.

Chinese is peaceful in white man land, but they r trouble in ASEAN region. China accept Kokang is Myanmar land, so Chinese ethic there should not make any trouble for Myanmar Govt. 

Things cant be changed, US is supporting native ASEAN to purge Chinese ethnic, if u r Chinese, then its time for u to flee to white man land or back to CN main land before too late


----------



## sicsheep

NiceGuy said:


> VN will soon will join the TPP deal when China is not allowed. When no one buy CN cheap- illegal copied products, then CN economy will collapse



lol we already have FTA with most countries in TPP anyways 
China has signed ACFTA - ASEAN - China Free Trade Area ,FTAAP, China - South Korea FTA 
WE have bilateral trade pacts with Australia, New Zealand, Chile, Singapore and Peru.
US has has already been imposing countervailing and anti dumping duties on Chinese imports for a decade, do you see any country is more competitive than China? 
TPP failed before it is finished, US only wants a soft confrontation with China, if we cant sell to US, we will just divert our investment to EU and create consumption there, Maybe Vietnam can help buy three trillion treasury bonds lol? 
I am sorry you put so much faith into TPP.


----------



## DJ Crudept

NiceGuy said:


> The world is changing, seem like US is supporting ASEAN nations to reduce Chinese ethnic in ASEAN region like what Myanmar is doing now . Chinese ethnic make more trouble than benefit to the region, Pol Pot- Myanmar rebels r clear example .
> 
> Indian ethnic in ASEAN is Ok and friendly to native ASEAN people


how can you say that you bootlicker of evil Indians ?
india is evil, our democracy is Evil, Hindus are Evil, our average people is evil, our 2 Trillion economy is fake and even smaller than Somalia
in other hand China is ........ 

unbelievable, a Russian is cheering for China ! What happened to Honor and Ego of USSR ?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## LittleFish

March to May----the golden time for construction. From June on, typhoons will come. All key constructions must be finished before the timeline.
Off topic, may I ask Filipino friends, how Tacoloban City is now after 2013 Super Typhoon Haiyan's strike? My parents' used to plan to have a trip there but cancelled due to it.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## rott

Lux de Veritas said:


> Its time you go stay in Trindad or Guyana.
> 
> Mind you Indians hate NE Indians (Sino Tibetan), and claim our women are slut. Mass rape was conducted in Manipur. They make NE India such as shit hole of poverty that even Indian despise these North Easterners and ridicule them as chink.
> 
> They think Chink are stupid and not until they come Singapore, China, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Korea, Japan where by Chink shows them how shit hole India is.
> 
> Then these Indians decide the flee their shit hole into some Chink land hoping to kick us out. This is now happening in Singapore Chink land.


100 % correct! I can't agree more.


----------



## Tshering22

TheTruth said:


> Yes, if I were in charge of China and I hated India I would provoke them into strangling and overextending themselves.



Well that's exactly why you're not the leader of China.

Because much more sensible people sit on that level to see how we can both make it to the top without targeting each other. 

Remember what happened in Europe 70 years ago.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## NiceGuy

sicsheep said:


> lol we already have FTA with most countries in TPP anyways
> China has signed ACFTA - ASEAN - China Free Trade Area ,FTAAP, China - South Korea FTA
> WE have bilateral trade pacts with Australia, New Zealand, Chile, Singapore and Peru.
> US has has already been imposing countervailing and anti dumping duties on Chinese imports for a decade, do you see any country is more competitive than China?
> TPP failed before it is finished, US only wants a soft confrontation with China, if we cant sell to US, we will just divert our investment to EU and create consumption there, Maybe Vietnam can help buy three trillion treasury bonds lol?
> I am sorry you put so much faith into TPP.


Most of countries having FTA wt u r US's lapdogs or US's yes men. They will stop the FTA when US warn them to stop


----------



## sicsheep

NiceGuy said:


> Most of countries having FTA wt u r US's lapdogs or US's yes men. They will stop the FTA when US warn them to stop



haha only in your dreams


----------



## TheTruth

Tshering22 said:


> Well that's exactly why you're not the leader of China.
> 
> Because much more sensible people sit on that level to see how we can both make it to the top without targeting each other.
> 
> Remember what happened in Europe 70 years ago.



That's if I hated India. I'm on the fence.


----------



## NiceGuy

sicsheep said:


> haha only in your dreams


Yeah, so just wait and see what will happen when the TPP come to reality, it may happen in 1 or 2 years, we dont have to wait so long


----------



## IND151

TheTruth said:


> Yes, if I were in charge of China and I hated India I would provoke them into strangling and overextending themselves.



You think Indian leaders dont know where India's interests lie?

Had that been case you would have seen Indian boots (active/ex) on Afghan soil, but that's not case.

Remember what Western Experts said about India when it got independence and what happened in reality?


----------



## TheTruth

IND151 said:


> You think Indian leaders dont know where India's interests lie?
> 
> Had that been case you would have seen Indian boots (active/ex) on Afghan soil, but that's not case.
> 
> Remember what Western Experts said about India when it got independence and what happened in reality?



Do they? It doesn't seem like even most Indians believe Indian leaders knew what they were doing from Indira Gandhi's time until 2014


----------



## sicsheep

NiceGuy said:


> Yeah, so just wait and see what will happen when the TPP come to reality, it may happen in 1 or 2 years, we dont have to wait so long



no problem, you yourself have been predicting China's Collapse since 2012, and we are still waiting. maybe two more years we already unify our territorial water in SCS and kick out VN from SCS, we shall see.


----------



## IND151

TheTruth said:


> Do they? It doesn't seem like even most Indians believe Indian leaders knew what they were doing from Indira Gandhi's time until 2014



Indian leaders and planners know what they are doing.

BTW are you aware what western experts said in 1947 and what happened?


----------



## Sam.

Lux de Veritas said:


> People will regret if they try to import Indian influence. India is world biggest Nazi state since Hitler and she has successfully annex numerous territory, like Hyderbad, Manipur, Goa, Sikkim, Kashmir...etc.
> 
> And wherereve overseas Indian go like Fiji, Carribean Trindad, Guyana, they made locals dalits and ridicule them as animals.
> 
> Otherwise like SE Asia where Hinduism once flourish, caste system plague like epidemic and there are still vestige of caste system in Bali, Indonesia. Thank you Islam for kicking out Hindus in SE Asia. While Islamo is no good, she is 10x better than Hindus.
> 
> Our God damn defence minister is shit and they best place he need to go is for a mental health check up.



Indian annexed Indian territory from Indians 

We are bullies 

You say we hate east asian yet you yourself shows racist attitude towards hindus 

Hate is not Indians thing suppose you got a lot for yourself already.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Lux de Veritas

Sam. said:


> Indian annexed Indian territory from Indians
> 
> We are bullies
> 
> You say we hate east asian yet you yourself shows racist attitude towards hindus
> 
> Hate is not Indians thing suppose you got a lot for yourself already.



You can show us love by marrying Dalits.


----------



## Sam.

Lux de Veritas said:


> You can show us love by marrying Dalits.


There are no dailts in India ,i live here don't see any. I will marry whoever i will fall in love with ,only one criteria needed (she need to be female)

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Abingdonboy

US, Vietnam, Phillipines (Japan to an extent) and now Singapore all trying to suck India into the SCS dispute? 


India has reiterated its postion consistently- that India will look after its interests and its interests alone, this rhetoric by the aforementioned nations is getting tiresome.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ito

yyes538 said:


> china Should Play Bigger Role in Indian Ocean



You are welcome play...India too would like to play a greater role South China Sea.


----------



## Sam.

Abingdonboy said:


> US, Vietnam, Phillipines (Japan to an extent) and now Singapore all trying to suck India into the SCS dispute?
> 
> 
> India has reiterated its postion consistently- that India will look after its interests and its interests alone, this rhetoric by the aforementioned nations is getting tiresome.


Brother it's our interest to be in SCS to contain China in SCS or else look at their plan of silk route which should be about central asia but why they go around India ocean?







There is nothing silky about this silk route


----------



## Abingdonboy

Sam. said:


> Brother it's our interest to be in SCS to contain China in SCS or else look at their plan of silk route which should be about central asia but why they go around India ocean?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is nothing silky about this silk route


India and China should try and get on the same page, this is by FAR the most desirable outcome for both India and China.

Failing that India can look at other options and going into the SCS may be an option in the medium term but for now let diplomacy have a chance- no point in provoking the Chinese in the SCS.


----------



## Sam.

Abingdonboy said:


> India and China should try and get on the same page, this is by FAR the most desirable outcome for both India and China.
> 
> Failing that India can look at other options and going into the SCS may be an option in the medium term but for now let diplomacy have a chance- no point in provoking the Chinese in the SCS.



Did china care about when they invest in gwadar and then sent nuclear submarines in sri lankan port - NO

did this incident made effect on china-indian trade - NO

Don't mix both and in diplomacy if you want equal partnership then you need to be on equal footing so while China trying to establish bases in Indian ocean we just sit back ? ( sorry mate i am not pacifist )

Pacifism should be applied in civil society and not in geo politics. (period )


----------



## Abingdonboy

Sam. said:


> Did china care about when they invest in gwadar and then sent nuclear submarines in sri lankan port - NO
> 
> did this incident made effect on china-indian trade - NO





Sam. said:


> Don't mix both and in diplomacy if you want equal partnership then you need to be on equal footing so while China made bases in Indian ocean we just sit back ?


Fair points but India has hardly sat by as this has taken place. The so-called "string of pearls" is all but broken. 



Sam. said:


> ( sorry mate i am not pacifist )
> 
> Pacifism should be applied in civil society and not in geo politics. (period )


Beleive me I am no pacifist but India needs to come from a postion of strength, in 5 or so years the Indian economy will be far stronger as will the Indian Military. Until that time there is no point in provoking a giant like China and then having to back down and ending up humiliated.


----------



## Sam.

Abingdonboy said:


> Fair points but India has hardly sat by as this has taken place. The so-called "string of pearls" is all but broken.
> 
> 
> Beleive me I am no pacifist but India needs to come from a postion of strength, in 5 or so years the Indian economy will be far stronger as will the Indian Military. Until that time there is no point in provoking a giant like China and then having to back down and ending up humiliated.


Provoking a giant has it's own profit as yoda yada japan and usa will invest more and we will have large market in Asean nation as they want to counter chinese hold in their economy. so it's not like we want to subdue chinese influence but it's all business.

Our economy won't grow without taking appropriate action and i can't disclose further as if you want to understand then you must be by now.


----------



## BoQ77

At last, he speak out his true thinking.
India has the very longterm cooperation with Singapore. As I remember


----------



## Sam.

BoQ77 said:


> At last, he speak out his true thinking.
> India has the very longterm cooperation with Singapore. As I remember


Yes we have believe me we train with their military very often and they are the most pro-India nation in Asean. Also they been asking us to counter chinese influence in ASEAN for a long time.


----------



## Lux de Veritas

BoQ77 said:


> At last, he speak out his true thinking.
> India has the very longterm cooperation with Singapore. As I remember



Singaporeans even local Indians are sick of Indian nationals.Our elites are all traitors and they are diametrically opposite what their citizens are thinking.

I do not know why Vietnamese keep trying to match make us. There is a slang in SE Asia especially among Malay/Indonesian speaker that killing a Indian is more preferable than killing a snake.

I think that is very terrible and racist but the honest Malay/Indonesian keep saying this. I am surprise that even Thai say that.

‘Kill the Indian First’ | OPEN Magazine

Who is worse? An Indian or a snake? | Latest News & Updates at Daily News & Analysis

*Vietnamese are too naive. Singaporeans have experience with Indians and you have NO.*


----------



## Lux de Veritas

BoQ77 said:


> Oversea Chinese also hate Indian ?
> I know you hate Indian at very first post, here. But there's no need to exaggerate like that way.



I am mentioning Malay slang. Malay idioms have below for Indians. Last time Malay call Indians keling. Then suddenly Indians say they are racial slur and ban Malay from saying keling and must call them Indians.

In reality the keling below make it into Malay dictionary.

*janji keling* (keling promise) - false promise
*cakap macam* keling (talk like keling ) - lying
*lidah keling* (tongue of keling) - lying
*temberang keling* (keling's boasting) - boasting
*gerantung keling* (keling's intimidate/bragging) - empty bluff/threat
*gerontang keling* (keling's intimidate/threat) - empty threat
*Akal keling* (keling's mind) - liar
*Otak keling* (keling's brain) - like to play with complicated words
*keling karam* (keling running around) - noisy
*keling mabuk todi* (keling drunk) - chatterbox
*Gertak keling* (keling bully) - bold hypocrisy with cowardice

*I am not hating Indians per se. I am mentioning facts.*


----------



## Edison Chen

As long as India can, they are welcome to do anything, but you know


----------



## Lux de Veritas

BoQ77 said:


> Indian is a part of your community, I see that during my trips to Singapore, err ... Little Indian.



The local Indians have been teach good by Chinese. So they are more ok. In Malaysia, Indians are criminals and gangsters.

Local Indians has been expose to goodness of Chinese, so they began to hate Indian nationals.

Over 40,000 members in 49 gangs involved in firearms, murder, drugs and extortion, says Home Ministry - Nation | The Star Online

Being a tiny minority of 8% in Malaysia, Indians make up 72% of gang members.

Total number of gang members nationwide: 40,313
Malay: 1,923
Chinese: 8,214
Indian: 28,926
Sabah: 329
Sarawak: 921

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

Lux de Veritas said:


> The local Indians have been teach good by Chinese. So they are more ok. In Malaysia, Indians are criminals and gangsters.
> 
> Local Indians has been expose to goodness of Chinese, so they began to hate Indian nationals.
> 
> Over 40,000 members in 49 gangs involved in firearms, murder, drugs and extortion, says Home Ministry - Nation | The Star Online
> 
> Being a tiny minority of 8% in Malaysia, Indians make up 72% of gang members.
> 
> Total number of gang members nationwide: 40,313
> Malay: 1,923
> Chinese: 8,214
> Indian: 28,926
> Sabah: 329
> Sarawak: 921



Will Irish American do that to African American ? We call that racism.


----------



## Lux de Veritas

BoQ77 said:


> Will Irish American do that to African American ? We call that racism.



Singaporean Chinese has elevated Indians to unprecedented levels and I support that although Chinese got short changed. Indians were over-represented in all elite institutions.

We are good people.

But too much India nationals here is too difficult for us to assimilate them with goodness but instead, they will impose caste system on us.

Indians have been treating natives of Trindad and Guyana animals.

Vietnamese is more racist than Chinese. *You kick Chinese out but in Singapore, we dont hate you guys.*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

Lux de Veritas said:


> Vietnamese is more racist than Chinese. *You kick Chinese out but in Singapore, we dont hate you guys.*



Oh. No. We love our Chinese race citizens and others.
When we kick Chinese out? 

We isn't racist. Actually, we didn't care much about races.


----------



## Lux de Veritas

BoQ77 said:


> Oh. No. We love our Chinese race citizens and others.
> When we kick Chinese out?



Vietnamese boat people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Repression was especially severe on the Hoa, the ethnic Chinese population of Vietnam.[5][6] The Hoa controlled much of the retail trade in South Vietnam and the communist government increasingly levied them with taxes, restrictions on trade, and confiscations of their businesses. In May 1978, the Hoa began to leave Vietnam in large numbers for China, initially by land. By the end of 1979, resulting from the Sino-Vietnamese War, 250,000 Hoa had sought refuge in China and many tens of thousands more were among the boat people scattered all over Southeast Asia and in Hong Kong

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## BoQ77

Lux de Veritas said:


> Vietnamese boat people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Repression was especially severe on the Hoa, the ethnic Chinese population of Vietnam.[5][6] The Hoa controlled much of the retail trade in South Vietnam and the communist government increasingly levied them with taxes, restrictions on trade, and confiscations of their businesses. In May 1978, the Hoa began to leave Vietnam in large numbers for China, initially by land. By the end of 1979, resulting from the Sino-Vietnamese War, 250,000 Hoa had sought refuge in China and many tens of thousands more were among the boat people scattered all over Southeast Asia and in Hong Kong



LOL. I must tell you that in my family there're many cross-marriage to Chinese race.
One of them fled for Canada, and return to Vietnam for vacation recently.
She's Chinese race, living several generation in Vietnam. left after 1975.

Many more than that, Vietnamese fled aboard as boat men because govt form changed.

Currently, Many of Chinese races still dominate the showbiz, market, .... in Vietnam. That's very normal.
About 1978 incident, that maybe the wrong decision of an extreme leader, not reflect the Vietnamese in majority.

Chinese race at very early phase fled to Vietnam for new life, after Ming dynasty defeated by Qing Manchu...

Chinese race used to fled that way.


----------



## Jlaw

Lux de Veritas said:


> Singaporean Chinese has elevated Indians to unprecedented levels and I support that although Chinese got short changed. Indians were over-represented in all elite institutions.
> 
> We are good people.
> 
> But too much India nationals here is too difficult for us to assimilate them with goodness but instead, they will impose caste system on us.
> 
> Indians have been treating natives of Trindad and Guyana animals.
> 
> Vietnamese is more racist than Chinese. *You kick Chinese out but in Singapore, we dont hate you guys.*


Than blame it on the kind hearted Chinese for being foolish. Chinese love doing this as it shows in history. Teaching others than get burn in the future.

中國人叫養殖.我認為這是死蠢.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

“Type 056” CCG vessel

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Kyusuibu Honbu

Singaporean Leadership was fanatical about India playing larger role in East Asia. Lee went as far as calling Indian leaders "Stupid" for not engaging East Asia Thoroughly.

The Current Modi's China Centric East Asia policy should be leaving Lee foaming with joy.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Lux de Veritas

BoQ77 said:


> LOL. I must tell you that in my family there're many cross-marriage to Chinese race.
> One of them fled for Canada, and return to Vietnam for vacation recently.
> She's Chinese race, living several generation in Vietnam. left after 1975.
> 
> Many more than that, Vietnamese fled aboard as boat men because govt form changed.
> 
> Currently, Many of Chinese races still dominate the showbiz, market, .... in Vietnam. That's very normal.
> About 1978 incident, that maybe the wrong decision of an extreme leader, not reflect the Vietnamese in majority.
> 
> Chinese race at very early phase fled to Vietnam for new life, after Ming dynasty defeated by Qing Manchu...
> 
> Chinese race used to fled that way.



You do that to us and I still do not hate you guys because there is goodness in Chinese culture. But YOU NEVER KNOW how Indians despise their Mongoloid of NE India.

And the problem of Malay archipelogo against Indians are not Chinese because Chinese are good. They are the Malay. Indians hate Malay for calling them a sorts of negative cannotation.

They will get back with them if they have the chance.

I know these Hindus. They STILL remember Indian partition and how Islamo slaughter them like nobody. When I mention Mamood Ghazni to India, they saliva with anger.

Also Malay Islamo Sunni keep shitting on Shia.

All these are being contain in Singapore because Singaporean Chinese are good people. Without us anchoring, we will have a shit racial problem like Malaysia or Indonesia or philippines.

Chinese are beacon of goodness here.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## BoQ77

Lux de Veritas said:


> You do that to us and I still do not hate you guys because there is goodness in Chinese culture. But YOU NEVER KNOW how Indians despise their Mongoloid of NE India.
> 
> And the problem of Malay archipelogo against Indians are not Chinese because Chinese are good. They are the Malay. Indians hate Malay for calling them a sorts of negative cannotation.
> 
> They will get back with them if they have the chance.
> 
> I know these Hindus. They STILL remember Indian partition and how Islamo slaughter them like nobody. When I mention Mamood Ghazni to India, they saliva with anger.
> 
> Also Malay Islamo Sunni keep shitting on Shia.
> 
> All these are being contain in Singapore because Singaporean Chinese are good people. Without us anchoring, we will have a shit racial problem like Malaysia or Indonesia or philippines.
> 
> Chinese are beacon of goodness here.



I feel ok with all Chinese I met in real life. I just have the bad feeling with trolling guys here.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Lux de Veritas

BoQ77 said:


> I feel ok with all Chinese I met in real life. I just have the bad feeling with trolling guys here.



Dont worry. I often attack many PRC because some are arrogant. I feel the same way.


----------



## BoQ77

Lux de Veritas said:


> Dont worry. I often attack many PRC because some are arrogant. I feel the same way.



I realized Chinese fled from mainland, growing better. Taiwan, Singapore ...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TheTruth

NiceGuy said:


> VN will soon will join the TPP deal when China is not allowed. When no one buy CN cheap- illegal copied products, then CN economy will collapse



Until a nuclear attack kills 80% of your population 



Sam. said:


> Brother it's our interest to be in SCS to contain China in SCS or else look at their plan of silk route which should be about central asia but why they go around India ocean?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is nothing silky about this silk route



It's the shortest route available. You don't own the Indian Ocean.



Sam. said:


> Provoking a giant has it's own profit as yoda yada japan and usa will invest more and we will have large market in Asean nation as they want to counter chinese hold in their economy. so it's not like we want to subdue chinese influence but it's all business.
> 
> Our economy won't grow without taking appropriate action and i can't disclose further as if you want to understand then you must be by now.



You think your relations will remain stable over time? In very short order China will be the largest market in the world. Do you think Japan will love you enough to burn itself out of that market?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Luca1

TheTruth said:


> That's if I hated India. I'm on the fence.



If you are Chinese. Indians on here will make you hate 
India. If you are Americans or Europeans or other Asians, Indians on here will make you hate India a well.


----------



## sicsheep

BoQ77 said:


> I realized Chinese fled from mainland, growing better. Taiwan, Singapore ...



It is more true with vietnamese, vietnamese in USA fled when HCM took south, now they are better educated, has more money, and maybe even look better than vietnamese in vietnam, true story.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Keel

Tom99 said:


> Anyone ocean-ologist or water current-ologist here know why China start the reclamination at that particular area of the reef? It seems like some of the sand just flows back into the dredged channel.



Large amount and and many tons of rocks and boulders are laid in the perimeters which help define the shape of the artificial islands and prevent the sand from drifting back






Porcelain handpainted overglaze gourd 
shaped snuff bottle with matching ring-
shaped design on the either side of the 
bottle shoulders. Gilt metal stopper

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Martian2

*ASEAN is a small fry to be ignored.*

LIMA 2015: Malaysia downplays South China Sea tensions, urges ASEAN unity - IHS Jane's 360

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

Keel said:


> Large amount and and many tons of rocks and boulders are laid in the perimeters which help define the shape of the artificial islands and prevent the sand from drifting back
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porcelain handpainted overglaze gourd
> shaped snuff bottle with matching ring-
> shaped design on the either side of the
> bottle shoulders. Gilt metal stopper



@Horus I feel annoyed with these non related ads in all post of Keel. Keel could you put all of these ads into your own thread?


----------



## Martian2

BoQ77 said:


> @Horus I feel annoyed with these non related ads in all post of Keel. Keel could you put all of these ads into your own thread?


Don't look at them.

I find the constantly varying pictures refreshing and informative.

The thing that really annoys me is your (BoQ77) endless threads of Vietnam could do this...; Vietnam should do this...; Japan could do this...; ASEAN could do this....

You're the problem BoQ77. You start like 10 threads a day based on speculation and trivial nonsense.

The China & Far East subforum has very few readers and participants, because you (BoQ77) and that Japanese guy (Nihonjin) keeps flooding the subforum with junk.

Horus needs to limit both you (BoQ77) and Nihonjin to no more than 3 new threads PER DAY. We need to bring quality topics, discussions, and FACTS back to the subforum. You two are the worst violators of endless speculation (e.g. Japan could do blah blah blah).

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## NiceGuy

Abingdonboy said:


> US, Vietnam, Phillipines (Japan to an extent) and now Singapore all trying to suck India into the SCS dispute?
> 
> 
> India has reiterated its postion consistently- that India will look after its interests and its interests alone, this rhetoric by the aforementioned nations is getting tiresome.


We dont Try to suck, Ok ?? If u see good interest, then u can come and join wt us, if u dont, then u can leave and let CN bullies u alone day by day.

I hope u r true Indian, not a false flagger.



sicsheep said:


> It is more true with vietnamese, vietnamese in USA fled when HCM took south, now they are better educated, has more money, and maybe even look better than vietnamese in vietnam, true story.


Yeah, so good for them. Hope they still think they r VNese


----------



## BoQ77

sicsheep said:


> It is more true with vietnamese, vietnamese in USA fled when HCM took south, now they are better educated, has more money, and maybe even look better than vietnamese in vietnam, true story.



More true to Chinese, because I mentioned to whom create new countries/territories. 
Just like American who fled from GB. 
Vietnamese, Chinese in US aren't going to create a new country, they simply adopt the existence


----------



## BoQ77

Lux de Veritas said:


> I am pointing out facts. The Malaysian Indians and Singaporean Indians are exactly the same tribe. Yet Malaysian Indians are criminals.
> 
> Singaporean Indians are excel in all fields.
> 
> Also oversea Indians elsewhere treat natives like Dalits and now there is a low level civil war in Guyana and Trindad because native do not want to be animals.



Lux, is this statement is real ? or fake ? "Singapore welcome Indian bigger role in SCS"


----------



## Lux de Veritas

BoQ77 said:


> Lux, is this statement is real ? or fake ? "Singapore welcome Indian bigger role in SCS"



Most likely it is true. I did not follow. Our government sign the free trade agreement CECA with India and 99% of Singaporeans are against it. The free trade agreement allow Indians worker to move freely into SG. 

We see our government selling us out. And many people hate Kuan Yew because of that. You never hear shit things Kuan Yew did because the world media is controlled by white man.

When indians are here, they kick us out, being the most ungrateful people. Then they ship their entire village to SG. In interviews and everywhere, they loudly shout that Singaporeans are fxcc up and stupid and lazy.

Govt decries CECA violation by Singapore | Business Standard News

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

Lux de Veritas said:


> Most likely it is true. I did not follow. Our government sign the free trade agreement CECA with India and 99% of Singaporeans are against it. The free trade agreement allow Indians worker to move freely into SG.
> 
> We see our government selling us out. And many people hate Kuan Yew because of that. You never hear shit things Kuan Yew did because the world media is controlled by white man.
> 
> When indians are here, they kick us out, being the most ungrateful people. Then they ship their entire village to SG. In interviews and everywhere, they loudly shout that Singaporeans are fxcc up and stupid and lazy.
> 
> Govt decries CECA violation by Singapore | Business Standard News



Is it not true that Singapore need labor force?
My brother in law, after graduated in SG, must follow the 3 years of working as repay to Singapore.


----------



## Lux de Veritas

BoQ77 said:


> Is it not true that Singapore need labor force?
> My brother in law, after graduated in SG, must follow the 3 years of working as repay to Singapore.



What Kuan Yew does was to hike property to high levels, sterilizing Singaporean couples. Our birthrate then become low because we are force to pay USD 400,000 for a house, taking 30 years mortgages.

Then Kuan Yew accuse us not reproducng and flood us with more foreginers. Then house price got higher.

I am sure your relative here will suffer like crazy unless this person went into elite profession.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

Lux de Veritas said:


> What Kuan Yew does was to hike property to high levels, sterilizing Singaporean couples. Our birthrate then become low because we are force to pay USD 400,000 for a house, taking 30 years mortgages.
> 
> Then Kuan Yew accuse us not reproducng and flood us with more foreginers. Then house price got higher.
> 
> I am sure your relative here will suffer like crazy unless this person went into elite profession.



Yeah I know how small a SG hotel room is. Basically that's similar to Hongkong, when land area is small.
What's your solution? You can't blame a retired Kuan Yew for this issue anymore.

I must admit, last June, exit Woodlands checkpoint to Johor Bahru, getting the room, I feel comfortable like home. Large room with large balcony... lol


----------



## Lux de Veritas

BoQ77 said:


> Yeah I know how small a SG hotel room is. Basically that's similar to Hongkong, when land area is small.
> What's your solution? You can't blame a retired Kuan Yew for this issue anymore.
> 
> I must admit, last June, exit Woodlands checkpoint to Johor Bahru, getting the room, I feel comfortable like home. Large room with large balcony... lol



He is to be blame. We have no problem of land per se until foreigners arrived. And 90% of our land are owned by government when PAP confiscated all poor man's land. The rich man residential area are left unmolested (but their plantations are confiscated also).

Even with foreigers here, house price would still be cheap. It is the government who control the supply of land keep making it supply low.

Singaporeans want Kuan Yew die early.


----------



## Zero_wing

LittleFish said:


> March to May----the golden time for construction. From June on, typhoons will come. All key constructions must be finished before the timeline.
> Off topic, may I ask Filipino friends, how Tacoloban City is now after 2013 Super Typhoon Haiyan's strike? My parents' used to plan to have a trip there but cancelled due to it.



About it? are still hurt about the world hating you guys for donating less then $100,0000 and add it to $1m because of it? and yet the world calls bull on you guys for your county's apathy?


----------



## opruh

Zero_wing said:


> About it? are still hurt about the world hating you guys for donating less then $100,0000 and add it to $1m because of it? and yet the world calls bull on you guys for your county's apathy?


No only my fellow Filipinos hate them, because they are ungrateful despite the money sent to them.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Zero_wing

opruh said:


> No only my fellow Filipinos hate them, because they are ungrateful despite the money sent to them.



Hey guys look other false flagger hey again whole condemn china not the Philippines, The Filipino people did not say anything but since you arrogant SOBs brought it up so again are you arrogant jerks still hurt about that well suck it up


----------



## yyes538

ito said:


> You are welcome play...India too would like to play a greater role South China Sea.


When China built port in Islam, I see a reaction is the largest in India

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ito

yyes538 said:


> When China built port in Islam, I see a reaction is the largest in India



When did China built a port in Islam? Where is Islam?


----------



## yyes538

ito said:


> When did China built a port in Islam? Where is Islam?


Sorry, English is not good, Sri Lanka, Sri Lanka and Islam in the Chinese translation is like, so often confused

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Martian2

Can Congress Stop China in the South China Sea? | The National Interest






----------

Unveiled: China's New Naval Base in the South China Sea | The National Interest Blog





----------

*Will the U.S. push China into the Russian camp?*

U.S. 7th Fleet Would Support ASEAN South China Sea Patrols - USNI News

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## TaiShang

‪#‎China‬ Mobile started ‪#‎4G‬ service on the ‪#‎NanshaIslands‬ in the Yongshu and Zhubi Reefs on Friday.

As per the company, the construction & testing work has taken over a month to complete under severe conditions in the ‪#‎SouthChinaSea‬.








同志们辛苦了！

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Zero_wing

Well good thanks for the evidence this would be great for our case at ITCLOS


----------



## ahojunk

4G mobile service launched on Yongshu & Zhubi Island, on Friday March 20, 2015

Pictures of Technicians at work.






-------
Xinhua, March 20, 2015

China Mobile started 4G service on the Yongshu Reef and Zhubi Reef on Friday, part of the Nansha Islands in the South China Sea.

The company said the construction and testing of 4G on the islands started before Chinese Lunar New Year on February 19 and took over one month under severe weather and geographical conditions.

The TD-LTE station on Yongshu Island is China's first 4G station opened through satellite transmission, according to the company.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Martian2

Indonesian president: China's main claim in South China Sea has no legal basis | News | GMA News Online


----------



## Yukio

JAKARTA/TOKYO Mon Mar 23, 2015






*(Reuters) - Indonesian President Joko Widodo said one of China's main claims to the majority of the South China Sea had no legal basis in international law, but Jakarta wanted to remain an "honest broker" in one of Asia's most thorny territorial disputes.*

Widodo's comments in an interview with a major Japanese newspaper came as he embarked on a visit to Japan and China, and was the first time he had taken a position on the issue since coming to power in October.

China claims 90 percent of the South China Sea, which is believed to be rich in oil and gas. Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines, Vietnam and Taiwan lay claim to parts of the sea, where about $5 trillion of ship-borne trade passes every year.

The territorial dispute is seen as one of Asia's hot spots, carrying risks that it could spiral out of control and result in conflict as countries aggressively stake their claims.

"We need peace and stability in the Asia-Pacific region. It is important to have political and security stability to build up our economic growth," Widodo was quoted as saying in an interview with the Yomiuri newspaper published on Monday.

"So we support the Code of Conduct (of the South China Sea) and also dialogue betweenChina and Japan, China and ASEAN."

But in a Japanese version of the interview published on Sunday, Widodo rejected one of Beijing's main claims to the South China Sea.

*"The 'nine-dashed line' that China says marks its maritime border has no basis in any international law,"* said Widodo.

Maritime lawyers note Beijing routinely outlines the scope of its claims with reference to the so-called nine-dashed line that takes in about 90 percent of the 3.5 million square kilometers South China Sea on Chinese maps.

The president was not speaking on China's overall claim on the South China Sea, but only its nine-dash dotted line that stretches deep into the maritime heart of Southeast Asia, his foreign policy adviser Rizal Sukma told Reuters on Monday.

"In 2009, Indonesia sent its official stance on the issue to the U.N. commission on the delimitation of the continental shelf, stating that the nine-dotted line has no basis in international law," said Sukma. "So, nothing changes."

China's Foreign Ministry appeared to downplay the remarks, repeating its standard line about Chinese sovereignty and that the dispute needs sorting out between the countries directly involved.

"The core of the South China Sea dispute is because of some countries' illegal occupation of several islands in the South China Sea and their adjacent waters has caused overlapping maritime claims," spokesman Hong Lei told a daily news briefing.

China recently expressed its anger at the Vietnamese head of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) when he rejected Chinese claims based on the nine-dash line.

This vague boundary was first officially published on a map by China's Nationalist government in 1947 and has been included in subsequent maps issued under Communist rule.

Indonesia, the largest country in Southeast Asia, has been a self-appointed broker in the myriad territorial disputes between its neighbors and China over the South China Sea. "Indonesia's willingness as an honest broker remains the same," Sukma said.

In his first trip to Japan as president, Widodo met Prime Minister Shinzo Abe on Monday and their defense ministers signed a defense pact to promote dialogue and cooperation.

The agreement is the latest effort by Tokyo to forge closer security ties with Southeast Asian nations and build a counter-balance to China.

Besides the defense pact, Japan agreed with Indonesia to strengthen cooperation in maritime security and development of marine-related industries. Japan also announced 140 billion yen ($1.17 billion) in official development assistance to help build Indonesia's railway network.

Japan has already bolstered partnerships with the Philippines and Vietnam, the two countries most at odds with China over the South China Sea. Japan itself is embroiled in a bitter dispute with China over uninhabited islands in the East China Sea, further to the north.

Widodo will visit China after Japan. Indonesia and China have a more developed military relationship and Jakarta has bought Chinese-made missiles and other military hardware.

Indonesian president says China's main claim in South China Sea has no legal basis| Reuters

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Martian2

Indonesian president: China's main claim in South China Sea has no legal basis | News | GMA News Online

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Aepsilons

@Yukio ,

Ah sumimasen - nihonjin desu ka?


----------



## bobsm

Yukio said:


> JAKARTA/TOKYO Mon Mar 23, 2015



Funny we also have the same 9 dashed line claim as the mainland.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Aepsilons

Yukio said:


> *"The 'nine-dashed line' that China says marks its maritime border has no basis in any international law,"* said Widodo.





This also coincides with this:








Japan, Indonesia Strengthen Defense Ties - WSJ


----------



## dichoi

Martian2 said:


> Indonesian president: China's main claim in South China Sea has no legal basis | News | GMA News Online



It is not depend on strength or weakness of the country, kiddo.


----------



## opruh

And the comment of this president has Zero weight to the matter.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## The BrOkEn HeArT

Martian2 said:


> Indonesian president: China's main claim in South China Sea has no legal basis | News | GMA News Online


Its not about military power, its about voice. And Indonesian sound loud in their region.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## dichoi

opruh said:


> And the comment of this president has Zero weight to the matter.



This president of 250 mill people in Asean. He does not telling a joke to Chinese.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## opruh

dichoi said:


> This president of 250 mill people in Asean. He does not telling a joke to Chinese.


And the president of 1.3 Billion in Asia has a different opinion.


The BrOkEn HeArT said:


> Its not about military power, its about voice. And Indonesian sound loud in their region.


China's sound is louder.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Beast

Indonesian president widodo is an admirer of China president Xi.

He sunk all other countries illegal fishing boat except China one. It is a mark of respect to China. I believe he say all this is just for foreign consumption like Japan. So far Indonesian has not officially say anything against China in SCS.

We shall be wary of foreign sources trying to create distort.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Place Of Space

Widodo got drunk?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## baukiki88

*China welcomes Indonesian offer to help resolve South China Sea disputes*
*Ridzwan Rahmat, Singapore and James Hardy, London* - IHS Jane's Navy International
25 March 2015


China's Ministry of Foreign Affairs has responded to Indonesia's latest offer to mediate the South China Sea disputes by saying it stands ready to work with relevant countries to maintain peace and stability in the region.

An Antara news report on 24 March cited President Joko Widodo as saying that Indonesia could be a good mediator in resolving the South China Sea disputes and that the country would offer its services if required.

Responding to a question on the report during a regular press conference on 25 March, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson Hua Chunying affirmed that it is important for China and the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) countries to reach a consensus on how to implement the South China Sea code of conduct.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ahojunk

China Slams Philippines For South China Sea ‘Hypocrisy’ | The Diplomat

*China Slams Philippines For South China Sea ‘Hypocrisy’*
Beijing turns the tables on Manila for resuming works in the South China Sea. 
By Prashanth Parameswaran
March 27, 2015






China slammed the Philippines for its hypocrisy on the South China Sea after Manila said that it would resume repair and reconstruction works there, news outlets reported Friday.

While the Philippines had halted such activities last year and suggested other countries do so as well because it was concerned about potential effects on its ongoing legal case against China, Foreign Minister Albert del Rosario had said Thursday that it would resume some activities. The move came amid massive Chinese land reclamation efforts there which Philippine officials say is designed to bolster Beijing’s territorial claims and alter the status quo before any legal verdict is even reached by the arbitral tribunal at The Hague.

But on Friday, China used del Rosario’s comments as an opportunity to turn the tables on the Philippines. According to _Reuters_, foreign policy spokesman Hua Chunying said China was now “seriously concerned” by Manila’s decision to resume works in the South China Sea, which was both an infringement of Beijing’s sovereignty and hypocritical.

“On the one hand the Philippines makes unreasonable criticism about China’s normal building activities on its own isles, and on the other announces it will resume repairs on an airport, runway and other illegal constructions on China’s Spratly Islands, which it illegally occupies,” Hua said.

“This is not only a series infringement of China’s sovereignty, but it also exposes the Philippines’ hypocrisy,” she noted at a news briefing. She also called on the Philippines to withdraw from the islands.

Foreign Minister Albert del Rosario had emphasized Thursday in his remarks that the Philippines would only be proceeding on repair and maintenance in the South China Sea, and such works – which would include repairs on an airstrip – would not violate the 2002 Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea because it did not alter the status quo dramatically.

“We are taking the position that we can proceed with the repair and maintenance,” del Rosario said according to _Reuters_.

This was in stark contrast to China’s massive land reclamation activities, which del Rosario said aimed to change the status quo and enforce its infamous nine-dash line claim to control almost the whole South China Sea.

“China is accelerating its expansionist agenda and changing the status quo to actualize its nine-dash line claim and to control nearly the entire South China Sea before…the handing down of a decision of the arbitral tribunal on the Philippine submission,” he said.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zero_wing

ahojunk said:


> China Slams Philippines For South China Sea ‘Hypocrisy’ | The Diplomat
> 
> *China Slams Philippines For South China Sea ‘Hypocrisy’*
> Beijing turns the tables on Manila for resuming works in the South China Sea.
> By Prashanth Parameswaran
> March 27, 2015
> 
> View attachment 208095
> 
> 
> China slammed the Philippines for its hypocrisy on the South China Sea after Manila said that it would resume repair and reconstruction works there, news outlets reported Friday.
> 
> While the Philippines had halted such activities last year and suggested other countries do so as well because it was concerned about potential effects on its ongoing legal case against China, Foreign Minister Albert del Rosario had said Thursday that it would resume some activities. The move came amid massive Chinese land reclamation efforts there which Philippine officials say is designed to bolster Beijing’s territorial claims and alter the status quo before any legal verdict is even reached by the arbitral tribunal at The Hague.
> 
> But on Friday, China used del Rosario’s comments as an opportunity to turn the tables on the Philippines. According to _Reuters_, foreign policy spokesman Hua Chunying said China was now “seriously concerned” by Manila’s decision to resume works in the South China Sea, which was both an infringement of Beijing’s sovereignty and hypocritical.
> 
> “On the one hand the Philippines makes unreasonable criticism about China’s normal building activities on its own isles, and on the other announces it will resume repairs on an airport, runway and other illegal constructions on China’s Spratly Islands, which it illegally occupies,” Hua said.
> 
> “This is not only a series infringement of China’s sovereignty, but it also exposes the Philippines’ hypocrisy,” she noted at a news briefing. She also called on the Philippines to withdraw from the islands.
> 
> Foreign Minister Albert del Rosario had emphasized Thursday in his remarks that the Philippines would only be proceeding on repair and maintenance in the South China Sea, and such works – which would include repairs on an airstrip – would not violate the 2002 Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea because it did not alter the status quo dramatically.
> 
> “We are taking the position that we can proceed with the repair and maintenance,” del Rosario said according to _Reuters_.
> 
> This was in stark contrast to China’s massive land reclamation activities, which del Rosario said aimed to change the status quo and enforce its infamous nine-dash line claim to control almost the whole South China Sea.
> 
> “China is accelerating its expansionist agenda and changing the status quo to actualize its nine-dash line claim and to control nearly the entire South China Sea before…the handing down of a decision of the arbitral tribunal on the Philippine submission,” he said.



The chinese imperialist so funny they been building islands from rock and reefs destorying nature while we going to repair old airstrips and facilities and they crying foul wow they have the nerve to call us hypocrites?


----------



## ahojunk

kibitz = to watch other people and make unwanted comments about what they are doing
in other words, "an unwanted interfering busybody"
-----------------
Commentary: America the Kibitzer on South China Sea
- Xinhua | English.news.cn

*Commentary: America the Kibitzer on South China Sea*
English.news.cn 2015-03-21 14:10:24

BEIJING, March 21 (Xinhua) -- Uncle Sam has long been in the grip of many addictions, such as muscle-flexing, preaching and borrowing, but there has turned out to be one more: kibitzing.

The latest symptom of the obsession with unwanted counseling emerged into plain sight earlier this week, when Robert Thomas, commander of the U.S. Navy Seventh Fleet, whose country is not a party in the South China Sea disputes, advised ASEAN countries to form a combined maritime force for joint South China Sea patrols and even called for more Japanese involvement.

The urge for presumptuous commenting escalated to a call for naked intervention on Thursday, as a handful of U.S. big-name senators, in a letter to State Secretary John Kerry and Defense Secretary Ash Carter, wrongfully pointed an accusing finger at China and clamored for a U.S. strategy to stop what is actually China's legitimate activity in South China Sea.

Such outside kibitzing, not to mention outright meddling, is way out of line for a party that has publicly committed itself not to taking sides on the South China Sea disputes, which are between China and some Southeast Asian nations.

That borders on double-dealing. The commander's proposal smacks of a thinly veiled attempt to cobble together a coalition on the opposite side of China, and the senators' cry sounds like a scheme to stoke misunderstanding and mistrust in a region where Washington is bent on keeping its hegemonic presence.

But the machination is fraught with faulty assumptions and doomed to fail. For starters, one troublemaker cannot alter the overwhelming commitment of parties involved in the South China Sea disputes to safeguarding regional stability and solving the issue through peaceful means.

Southeast Asian countries are clear-eyed enough to see through the U.S. calculus and perceive the hidden agenda behind Washington's overt enthusiasm, and thus refrain from being led astray by the pied piper of the United States.

Meanwhile, despite the incessant hyping of the "China threat" cliche, the freedom of navigation at South China Sea has never been a problem. The true risk is that relentless exaggeration might someday achieve its sinister goal of sowing discord and eventually throw up waves in the busy body of water.

Thus what Washington should focus on is not the "alarming scope and pace of" what China is doing, but the "alarming scope and pace of" the U.S. meddling, not least the emboldening effect of its "pivot to Asia" strategy on certain hotheads around the South China Sea.

It is high time that Uncle Sam stop making irresponsible remarks and retract his meddlesome hands, so as to allow the parties directly involved in the South China Sea disputes to proceed in their own peaceful way.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

Zero_wing said:


> The chinese imperialist so funny they been building islands from rock and reefs destorying nature while we going to repair old airstrips and facilities and they crying foul wow they have the nerve to call us hypocrites?



We all know that PH used to be owners of those since ancient time.


----------



## opruh

Zero_wing said:


> The chinese imperialist so funny they been building islands from rock and reefs destorying nature while we going to repair old airstrips and facilities and they crying foul wow they have the nerve to call us hypocrites?


We Filipinos are an honest people, we should not be a hypocrite.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Martian2

China creating 'great wall of sand' near disputed islands: U.S. Adm. Harry Harris Jr. - Washington Times





----------

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cirr

3980-ton CCG 2308 with electric propulsion handed over to the East Sea branch of China Coast Guard on 31.03.2015 






The last of 8 built。

中国海警2308船在沪交接入列 配先进电力推进(图)-中新网

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Rechoice

Martian2 said:


> China creating 'great wall of sand' near disputed islands: U.S. Adm. Harry Harris Jr. - Washington Times
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----------



It is signal for that US navy could destroy such illegal artifact islands in SCS.


----------



## Martian2

Imagery shows progress of Chinese land building across Spratlys - IHS Jane's 360

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Martian2

Territorial claims in the Spratly and Paracel Islands | GlobalSecurity

"*Chinese claims are based on a number of historical events, including the naval expeditions to the Spratly Islands by the Han Dynasty in 110 AD* and the Ming Dynasty from 1403-1433 AD. Chinese fishermen and merchants have worked the region over time, and China is using archaeological evidence to bolster its claims of sovereignty." (See graphical citation below, second paragraph about "China")

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Rechoice

Martian2 said:


> You called me a liar and a fabricator regarding the Han Dynasty claim over the Spratly Islands. In reply to your baseless accusations, I gave GlobalSecurity as my citation for the Han Dynasty claim in 110 AD over the Spratly Islands.
> 
> Now, you write another bunch of garbage and expect me to take it seriously? Get real.
> ----------
> 
> If you want to make a claim, show me the treaty between China and Vietnam that purportedly supports your claim.
> 
> Also, name the Chinese dynasty and the government officials involved.
> 
> Finally, show me a reputable citation to put the whole package together.
> 
> If you can't meet this minimum criteria, spare all of us the endless rhetoric and crap that you constantly write.



GlobalSecurity is copied from china's fake historic claim. it is fabrication made by Chinese.

Here map of administration of KMT in China 1936. Islands Paracel and Spratly never considered as territory of China by Chinese before 1948.


----------



## Nike

Haha ridiculous, so we can justifying if Australia, Malaysia, Papua Newguinea and Southern Mindanao is part of Indonesia

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

madokafc said:


> Haha ridiculous, so we can justifying if Australia, Malaysia, Papua Newguinea and Southern Mindanao is part of Indonesia



China propaganda is talking about Han Dynasty. Apply Chinese logic Indonesia could claim Taiwan is part of territory of Indonesia, because Indonesian people who form the majority of the modern population, migrated to South East Asia from Taiwan. They arrived in Indonesia around 2000 BCE,

Indonesia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Nike

Rechoice said:


> China propaganda is talking about Han Dynasty. Apply Chinese logic Indonesia could claim Taiwan is part of territory of Indonesia, because Indonesian people who form the majority of the modern population, migrated to South East Asia from Taiwan. They arrived in Indonesia around 2000 BCE,
> 
> Indonesia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Majapahit Claimed lands is stretched as far as Madagascar, there is several Lingga and Yoni, and inscription in the stones left by Majapahit expedition found in Madagascar huahaha 

And with the same logic, China must know if European and USA can start their claim over Asia again because the roots of Colonization history


----------



## 70U63

Rechoice said:


> Marco Polo has discovered China. so China is territory of White men from Europa.



When a country want to claim other territory, you also need to have hard power to support it.

Any weak country can say anything but no one give a shxt. 
Just like what China back then, poor and weak, therefore no one give a fxxk. 
Another case is Sultanate of Sulu / PH claim on Sabah (of Malaysia).

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Nike

70U63 said:


> When a country want to claim other territory, you also need to have hard power to support it.
> 
> Any weak country can say anything but no one give a shxt.
> Just like what China back then, poor and weak, therefore no one give a fxxk.
> Another case is Sultanate of Sulu / PH claim on Sabah (of Malaysia).



so now everything came to hard power, very convenient is it 

So what is the use of International Arbitrary Tribune at Den Haag

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

70U63 said:


> When a country want to claim other territory, you also need to have hard power to support it.
> 
> Any weak country can say anything but no one give a shxt.
> Just like what China back then, poor and weak, therefore no one give a fxxk.
> Another case is Sultanate of Sulu / PH claim on Sabah (of Malaysia).



base on your logic, Indonesia with 260 million people could take back Malaysia and Singapore with single military operation.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## 70U63

madokafc said:


> so now everything came to hard power, very convenient is it
> 
> So what is the use of International Arbitrary Tribune at Den Haag


Of course if certain country has the hard power, they got more cards to play with. 
It doesn't mean you have to use the 'cards'.
For example, if Indonesia economy and military keep expanding in the future, they will have larger influence in the region.



Rechoice said:


> base on your logic, Indonesia with 260 million people could take back Malaysia and Singapore with single military operation.



If i rephrase you statement to:
"base on your logic, China with 1.3 billion people could take Vietnam with single military operation"

Do you see how naive the statement is...

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Rechoice

70U63 said:


> Of course if certain country has the hard power, they got more cards to play with.
> It doesn't mean you have to use the 'cards'.
> For example, if Indonesia economy and military keep expanding in the future, they will have larger influence in the region.
> 
> 
> 
> If i rephrase you statement to:
> "base on your logic, China with 1.3 billion people could take Vietnam with single military operation"
> 
> Do you see how naive the statement is...



you said  "When a country want to claim other territory, you also need to have hard power to support it."

It is your statement, not mine.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ahojunk

.
Seaplane Could Advance Chinese SCS Claims

*Seaplane Could Advance Chinese SCS Claims*
By Wendell Minnick 12:55 p.m. EDT March 28, 2015






TAIPEI — A new Chinese-built seaplane could help seal Beijing's control over its claims in the South China Sea (SCS), say military specialists on China.

The Jiaolong (Water Dragon) AG600, under construction by China Aviation Industry General Aircraft (CAIGA), will be China's largest operational seaplane. CAIGA did not respond to inquiries after the company's announcement on March 17 that it had completed the front fuselage assembly for the prototype.

According to brochures obtained at the 2014 Airshow China in Zhuhai, the aircraft is powered by four turboprop WJ-6 engines and has a range of 5,500 kilometers, which would provide substantial movement within the SCS. In the Spratly Islands, China is currently constructing artificial islands on Hughes Reef, Johnson South Reef and Gaven Reef.

Despite the lack of direct mainland access to Beijing's strategic claims in the SCS, the aircraft are seen as a boon to solidifying control of the area by China's military and maritime enforcement agencies for island hopping within the crowded clusters of the 750 reefs, islets, atolls and islands in the Spratly Islands archipelago.

"Amphibious planes like the AG600 would be perfect for resupplying the new artificial islands that the Chinese are building in the SCS," said Richard Bitzinger, coordinator of the Military Transformations Program at Singapore's S. Rajaratnam School of International Studies.

"At the same time, these islands would be excellent bases of operations for the AG600 to engage in maritime patrols of claimed territories."

The AG600 will also serve as political leverage, said Ching Chang, a research fellow at Taiwan's ROC Society for Strategic Studies.

"States need effective governance to support their territorial claim" and the AG600 will enhance China's capability in "law enforcement, fishery patrol, anti-poaching activity on coral reefs, pollution prevention, search and rescue, medical rescue transportation, meteorological and seismic survey, namely, all the government functions that may signify its substantial governance in the South China Sea."

This type of governance and control will serve China's argument that the islands are "inhabitable according to UNCLOS [United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea] requirements, which support the PRC [People's Republic of China] to claim an EEZ [exclusive economic zone] in the South China Sea."

CAIGA brochures indicate the AG600 can fulfill four missions: search and rescue (SAR), fire fighting, transport (up to 50 passengers), and maritime surveillance. These aircraft might also serve China's military in the roles of signal intelligence and electronic intelligence, said Sam Bateman, adviser, Maritime Security Programme, S. Rajaratnam School of International Studies, Singapore.

However, Bateman does not see these aircraft as a "game changer" in the SCS, though they could serve to "quickly resupply and reinforce the military outposts on islands without air strips."

CAIGA brochures make no mention of a military application, but history indicates that seaplanes have a relatively small commercial market. The existing producers of large amphibious aircraft, Japan and Russia, indicate that the market for fire fighting and SAR missions is small, said Vasiliy Kashin, a China military specialist at Moscow's Centre for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies. Both aircraft producers are legacies of the Cold War, he said, and in comparison China has created a new design and established a new production line for an aircraft that has a terrible commercial market history.

"Since the program can hardly be justified by the civilian demand, the likely explanation is that the program has a significant military importance," Kashin said.

The AG600 is not the only seaplane under development by CAIGA. At the 2014 Airshow China, the company displayed models of the twin-engine turboprop-engine powered H660 and H631, each with a similar payload and range. There was also a model of the four turbofan-engine powered H680 Sea Eagle.

The company also builds two light passenger seaplanes, the 208B and HO300, both with a range of roughly 1,000-1,500 kilometers.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cirr

ahojunk said:


> .
> Seaplane Could Advance Chinese SCS Claims
> 
> *Seaplane Could Advance Chinese SCS Claims*
> By Wendell Minnick 12:55 p.m. EDT March 28, 2015
> 
> View attachment 210970
> 
> 
> TAIPEI — A new Chinese-built seaplane could help seal Beijing's control over its claims in the South China Sea (SCS), say military specialists on China.
> 
> The Jiaolong (Water Dragon) AG600, under construction by China Aviation Industry General Aircraft (CAIGA), will be China's largest operational seaplane. CAIGA did not respond to inquiries after the company's announcement on March 17 that it had completed the front fuselage assembly for the prototype.
> 
> According to brochures obtained at the 2014 Airshow China in Zhuhai, the aircraft is powered by four turboprop WJ-6 engines and has a range of 5,500 kilometers, which would provide substantial movement within the SCS. In the Spratly Islands, China is currently constructing artificial islands on Hughes Reef, Johnson South Reef and Gaven Reef.
> 
> Despite the lack of direct mainland access to Beijing's strategic claims in the SCS, the aircraft are seen as a boon to solidifying control of the area by China's military and maritime enforcement agencies for island hopping within the crowded clusters of the 750 reefs, islets, atolls and islands in the Spratly Islands archipelago.
> 
> "Amphibious planes like the AG600 would be perfect for resupplying the new artificial islands that the Chinese are building in the SCS," said Richard Bitzinger, coordinator of the Military Transformations Program at Singapore's S. Rajaratnam School of International Studies.
> 
> "At the same time, these islands would be excellent bases of operations for the AG600 to engage in maritime patrols of claimed territories."
> 
> The AG600 will also serve as political leverage, said Ching Chang, a research fellow at Taiwan's ROC Society for Strategic Studies.
> 
> "States need effective governance to support their territorial claim" and the AG600 will enhance China's capability in "law enforcement, fishery patrol, anti-poaching activity on coral reefs, pollution prevention, search and rescue, medical rescue transportation, meteorological and seismic survey, namely, all the government functions that may signify its substantial governance in the South China Sea."
> 
> This type of governance and control will serve China's argument that the islands are "inhabitable according to UNCLOS [United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea] requirements, which support the PRC [People's Republic of China] to claim an EEZ [exclusive economic zone] in the South China Sea."
> 
> CAIGA brochures indicate the AG600 can fulfill four missions: search and rescue (SAR), fire fighting, transport (up to 50 passengers), and maritime surveillance. These aircraft might also serve China's military in the roles of signal intelligence and electronic intelligence, said Sam Bateman, adviser, Maritime Security Programme, S. Rajaratnam School of International Studies, Singapore.
> 
> However, Bateman does not see these aircraft as a "game changer" in the SCS, though they could serve to "quickly resupply and reinforce the military outposts on islands without air strips."
> 
> CAIGA brochures make no mention of a military application, but history indicates that seaplanes have a relatively small commercial market. The existing producers of large amphibious aircraft, Japan and Russia, indicate that the market for fire fighting and SAR missions is small, said Vasiliy Kashin, a China military specialist at Moscow's Centre for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies. Both aircraft producers are legacies of the Cold War, he said, and in comparison China has created a new design and established a new production line for an aircraft that has a terrible commercial market history.
> 
> "Since the program can hardly be justified by the civilian demand, the likely explanation is that the program has a significant military importance," Kashin said.
> 
> The AG600 is not the only seaplane under development by CAIGA. At the 2014 Airshow China, the company displayed models of the twin-engine turboprop-engine powered H660 and H631, each with a similar payload and range. There was also a model of the four turbofan-engine powered H680 Sea Eagle.
> 
> The company also builds two light passenger seaplanes, the 208B and HO300, both with a range of roughly 1,000-1,500 kilometers.



*Subi Island* Phase One 03.04.2015  The island now has its own 4G mobile base station。






*Yongshudao*(Fiery Cross Island) 






The runways are shaping up nicely.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## yusheng



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## terranMarine

ah yes the Kra canal, any progress made?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ahojunk

cirr said:


> The runways are shaping up nicely.



Yes, we will probably see airstrips or runways in Yongshu, Subi and Meiji.

If seaplanes are used in SCS, they will be useful for the other islands without airstrips/runways.

Very good planning by China to have multiple ways to re-supply the islands:-
- there are docks/harbours for ships
- then backup by runways/airstrips for planes
- and lastly, seaplanes can also be used.
.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Lei King




----------



## cirr

1500-ton 44104、46104、48104.。。。

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## yusheng

terranMarine said:


> ah yes the Kra canal, any progress made?


not sure， too low the Chinese position, but is still a good choice if necessary.


----------



## ahojunk

terranMarine said:


> ah yes the Kra canal, any progress made?


.
Don't think there has been any recent progress. If the Kra canal goes ahead, there will be geo-political implications for Singapore and Malaysia. 

There will be great savings of fuel and time for China, Taiwan, South Korea and Japan as their ships do not need to travel around the Malaysian peninsula. 

However, it's bad news for Singapore as less ships will be passing through and with it the lost of revenue.

Who knows, the AIIB may fund this canal.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## 70U63

I believe there is also some issue with some ethic group in southern Thailand.
Without solving this issue, i really doubt it will be 'safe'.



ahojunk said:


> .
> Don't think there has been any recent progress. If the Kra canal goes ahead, there will be geo-political implications for Singapore and Malaysia.
> 
> There will be great savings of fuel and time for China, Taiwan, South Korea and Japan as their ships do not need to travel around the Malaysian peninsula.
> 
> However, it's bad news for Singapore as less ships will be passing through and with it the lost of revenue.
> 
> Who knows, the AIIB may fund this canal.


----------



## Martian2

Palace alarmed by China's massive reclamation activities | Inquirer Global Nation

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cirr

CCG 44104

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## chou.wong

cirr said:


> *Subi Island* Phase One 03.04.2015  The island now has its own 4G mobile base station。
> 
> View attachment 211097
> 
> 
> *Yongshudao*(Fiery Cross Island)
> 
> View attachment 211098
> 
> 
> The runways are shaping up nicely.


where did you get this picture？so clear


----------



## cirr

Yongshudao （Fiery Cross Island）by 2020？


----------



## ahojunk

cirr said:


> Yongshudao （Fiery Cross Island）by 2020？



This is a beautiful sight.

But the south west part doesn't fit what is currently being reclaimed.

For example, there is no reservoir or harbor.


----------



## xudoai

VN can do same way in our Reefs.

V Vietnam.
T china.


----------



## ahojunk

I have put together in pics the evolution of China's possessions in the SCS.
This is how I see the "generations" of China's buildings in the SCS.
Hats off to China. She knows what she is doing.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Eliter

The satellite images of April，11th，2015， from NASA reveal Vietnam‘s illegal land reclamation at Cornwallis South Reef ，one coral reef of Spratly Islands，China. The reclamation of Vietnam， ignored by all the media over the world，didn't get what they deserved.

2015年4月11日卫星图片显示越南正在侵占的中国南华礁修建人工岛

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

Eliter said:


> The satellite images of April，11th，2015， from NASA reveal Vietnam‘s illegal land reclamation at Cornwallis South Reef ，one coral reef of Spratly Islands，China. The reclamation of Vietnam， ignored by all the media over the world，didn't get what they deserved.
> 
> 2015年4月11日卫星图片显示越南正在侵占的中国南华礁修建人工岛


that is nothing. wait and see 100 new islands coming on the surface.

do you think you are the one that is allowed to build illegal islands and buildings, and not us? no, we can do land reclaimation and build "illegal" structures, too.


----------



## Soryu

Eliter said:


> The satellite images of April，11th，2015， from NASA reveal Vietnam‘s illegal land reclamation at Cornwallis South Reef ，one coral reef of Spratly Islands，China. The reclamation of Vietnam， ignored by all the media over the world，didn't get what they deserved.





Viet said:


> that is nothing. wait and see 100 new islands coming on the surface.
> 
> do you think you are the one that is allowed to build illegal islands and buildings, and not us? no, we can do land reclaimation and build "illegal" structures, too.



No, we do things are legal, 'cause our reclamation and building are on the Islands belong to us, while Chinese does illegal 'cause they took some rocks by force and making them Islands.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## 70U63

Summary for the claim of Spratly islands and reefs by various countries:

Brunei and Malaysia - Exclusive Economic Zone & continental shelf (UNCLOS)
Philippine - Exclusive Economic Zone (UNCLOS)
China & Taiwan - historical presence
Vietnam - historical presence and EEZ

I don't understand. 
If you look at it, Vietnam has contradict themselves, they claim based on historical presence and EEZ.
I thought they can only choose one...
If they choose history presence only, they will have lots of fun arguing with China and Taiwan.
If they choose EEZ only, most of the Spratly islands and reefs will be belong to Brunei, Malaysia and Philippine. 
If they choose both, how are they going to convince Malaysia and Brunei? Philippine support them 'temporary' to counter China.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

visiting the east sea


----------



## Viet

70U63 said:


> Summary for the claim of Spratly islands and reefs by various countries:
> 
> Brunei and Malaysia - Exclusive Economic Zone & continental shelf (UNCLOS)
> Philippine - Exclusive Economic Zone (UNCLOS)
> China & Taiwan - historical presence
> Vietnam - historical presence and EEZ
> 
> I don't understand.
> If you look at it, Vietnam has contradict themselves, they claim based on historical presence and EEZ.
> I thought they can only choose one...
> If they choose history presence only, they will have lots of fun arguing with China and Taiwan.
> If they choose EEZ only, most of the Spratly islands and reefs will be belong to Brunei, Malaysia and Philippine.
> If they choose both, how are they going to convince Malaysia and Brunei? Philippine support them 'temporary' to counter China.


no, you don´t get it.

china claims the seas and islands as she says it based on "historic facts and title". and EEZ per Unclos: Hainan island. we claim the EEZ/continential shelf per Unclos, and the islands based on the historic documents of the Nguyen dynasty and earlier.

we have historic documents to prove our possession, while china nothing. only lie and hot air.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## 70U63

The best is to choose only one, Historic facts or EEZ.
If you choose historic facts, you can always argue your claim is valid while China & Taiwan doing the same.
You seriously think other ASEAN countries involved in the dispute give a shxt about these?
That's why 'no one' want to choose side in this issue.



Viet said:


> no, you don´t get it.
> 
> china claims the seas and islands as she says it based on "historic facts and title". and EEZ per Unclos: Hainan island. we claim the EEZ/continential shelf per Unclos, and the islands based on the historic documents of the Nguyen dynasty and earlier.
> 
> we have historic documents to prove our possession, while china nothing. only lie and hot air.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

5500-ton *CCG 2501* formally inducted into CCG 4th Detachment on 16.04.2015






The 1st of 4

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Aepsilons

cirr said:


> 5500-ton *CCG 2501* formally inducted into CCG 4th Detachment on 16.04.2015
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The 1st of 4




A beast !! 5500 Tonnes ? I hear CCG is to induct a cutter that is over 10,000 tonne. Any updates on this?



ahojunk said:


> I have put together in pics the evolution of China's possessions in the SCS.
> This is how I see the "generations" of China's buildings in the SCS.
> Hats off to China. She knows what she is doing.
> 
> View attachment 214041




Good development.


----------



## cirr

Nihonjin1051 said:


> A beast !! 5500 Tonnes ? I hear CCG is to induct a cutter that is over 10,000 tonne. Any updates on this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good development.



Still being fitted out at JN Shipyard in Shanghai

Freshly minted *CCG 3111* for the SCS

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Aepsilons

cirr said:


> Still being fitted out at JN Shipyard in Shanghai
> 
> Freshly minted *CCG 3111* for the SCS





She looks beautiful ! JCG welcomes you to the ocean waters, brother. See you around 



Shikishima Class of the JCG (3 will be made), and is at 9,300+ tonnes


----------



## Viet

70U63 said:


> The best is to choose only one, Historic facts or EEZ.
> If you choose historic facts, you can always argue your claim is valid while China & Taiwan doing the same.
> You seriously think other ASEAN countries involved in the dispute give a shxt about these?
> That's why 'no one' want to choose side in this issue.


keep your advice go yourself or stick it into your @s.


----------



## 70U63

Viet said:


> keep your advice go yourself or stick it into your @s.


----------



## Raphael

Viet said:


> You again here?
> 
> Why don't you go back to work by cleaning guest toilettes or just jump off the window ending your useless life?



Why are you so angry and belligerent  You know, you are furthering the stereotype that Vietnamese are uncouth, vulgar, pugnacious, suffering from jungle fever, don't know how to act, behave, and communicate in an urban setting. Are you sure your countrymen would would be happy with your portrayal?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is a good article that talks about the SCS dispute, written by former US ambassador:
Diplomacy on the Rocks: China and Other Claimants in the South China Sea

For centuries, the islands and other land features of the South China Sea were seen as places to be avoided – valueless hazards to navigation. The waters around them were treated by fishermen as an unregulated regional commons where everybody, regardless of nationality, could find and take what they wished. This changed in 1982 , when the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea conferred rights to exclusive economic zones (EEZs) on habitable islands. About the same time, advances in technology made seabed oil and gas resources increasingly accessible. Nationalism and economic interests in possession of these islands then aligned. Vague assertions of historic connections to islands, rocks, and reefs became adamant claims of ownership.

The Paracel (or Xi Sha / 西沙) Islands are now claimed with great passion by both China and Vietnam. Some or all of the Spratly (or Nan Sha / 南沙) Islands are similarly claimed by China, Malaysia, the Philippines, and Vietnam. Let me very briefly recount the tangled history of these claims. Listen closely. The facts belie the prevailing narratives.

It is hardly surprising that the claimants have reinterpreted their history to make it conform to the once-foreign Westphalian notion of sovereignty. They have produced reams of paper documenting close encounters with remote rocks by the sailors of long-vanished Chinese and Vietnamese dynasties. But whatever those sailors were doing, it had nothing to do with either asserting or violating sovereignty, which was not yet an operative concept in Asia.

China first asserted sovereignty in the modern sense to the South China Sea’s islands when it formally objected to France’s efforts to incorporate them into French Indochina during the 1884 – 1885 Sino-French war. Chinese maps since then have consistently shown China’s claims, first as a solid and then as a dotted line.

In 1932, France nonetheless formally claimed both the Paracel and Spratly Islands. China and Japan both protested. In 1933, France seized the Paracels and Spratlys, announced their annexation, formally included them in French Indochina, and built a couple of weather stations on them, but did not disturb the numerous Chinese fishermen it found there. In 1938 Japan took the islands from France, garrisoned them, and built a submarine base at Itu Aba (now Taiping / 太平) Island. In 1941, the Japanese Empire made the Paracel and Spratly islands part of Taiwan, then under its rule.

In 1945, in accordance with the Cairo and Potsdam Declarations and with American help, the armed forces of the Republic of China government at Nanjing accepted the surrender of the Japanese garrisons in Taiwan, including the Paracel and Spratly Islands. Nanjing then declared both archipelagoes to be part of Guangdong Province. In 1946 it established garrisons on both Woody (now Yongxing / 永兴) Island in the Paracels and Taiping Island in the Spratlys. France protested. The French tried but failed to dislodge Chinese nationalist troops from Yongxing Island (the only habitable island in the Paracels), but were able to establish a small camp on Pattle (now Shanhu / 珊瑚) Island in the southwestern part of the archipelago.

In 1950, after the Chinese nationalists were driven from Hainan by the People’s Liberation Army (PLA), they withdrew their garrisons in both the Paracels and Spratlys to Taiwan. In 1954 France ceased to be a factor when it accepted the independence of both south and north Vietnam and withdrew from Indochina.

In 1956 North Vietnam formally accepted that the Paracel and Spratly islands were historically Chinese. About the same time, the PLA reestablished a Chinese garrison on Yongxing Island in the Paracels, while the Republic of China (Taipei) put troops back on Taiping Island in the Spratlys. But, that same year, South Vietnam reopened the abandoned French camp on Shanhu Island and announced that it had annexed the Paracel archipelago as well as the Spratlys.

In 1974 South Vietnam attempted to enforce its claims to sovereignty by placing settlers in the Spratlys and expelling Chinese fishermen from the southwestern Paracels. In the ensuing naval battle at Shanhu Island, China defeated Vietnamese forces. This enabled Beijing to extend its control to the entire Paracel archipelago, where it has not been effectively challenged since.

Five years later, Hanoi (now the capital of a united Vietnam) repudiated its earlier deference to China’s claims, adopted South Vietnam’s position, and claimed sovereignty over all the islands in the South China Sea. In the early 1980s, as Beijing, Kuala Lumpur, Manila, and Taipei protested, Vietnam resumed vigorous settlement and garrisoning of the Spratlys.

From 1946 to 1950, Chinese nationalist forces maintained a garrison on Taiping Island, the only habitable island in the Spratlys. This military presence was reestablished by Taipei in 1956 in response to the activities of a Filipino lawyer and businessman, Tomás Cloma.

In 1956, Cloma proclaimed the establishment of a new country, “Freedomland” in the Spratly Islands. The sole function of Freedomland turned out to be issuing postage stamps to collectors. Cloma’s announcement of Freedomland caused both Beijing and Taipei to reiterate China’s claims to the Spratlys. Taipei sent troops to drive Cloma off Taiping Island. Its forces are still there.

Cloma’s proclamation of Freedomland was legal in the Philippines because, as Manila noted in its reply to protests of Cloma’s actions from Beijing, Paris, Saigon, and Taipei, the Philippines had made no claim of its own to the Spratlys. But in 1972 the Philippines did begin to make such claims. In 1974, President Ferdinand Marcos forced Cloma to convey all his rights (whatever, if anything, these were) to the Philippine government for one peso. That same year the Philippines occupied five islets in the Spratlys. By 1978 it had occupied two more, plus two reefs.

Spain and the United States exercised sovereignty in the Philippines consecutively for four centuries (1543-1946) but never annexed the Spratlys. Manila’s clam to them is based on the fact that, with the exception of Taiping Island, they were unoccupied and up for grabs. The Philippines’ other argument for owning the Spratlys is that they lie within the 200-nautical-mile Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ) it unilaterally proclaimed in 1978 in anticipation of the 1982 Convention on the Law of the Sea, which authorized littoral states to create such EEZs off their coasts.

Malaysia also bases its claim to the southernmost Spratlys on their location within the EEZ it proclaimed in 1979. Malaysia seized Pulau Layang-Layang (Swallow Reef) in 1983 and established a military presence there. It has since reclaimed enough land to build an airfield and a small resort hotel on the atoll.

The Filipino and Malaysian cases are politically potent but legally weak. An EEZ does not determine the ownership of the islands it surrounds. Under the law of the sea, ownership of land features determines rights over the adjacent waters and seabeds. “The land dominates the sea,” not vice versa.

But Malaysia, the Philippines, Vietnam, and now China have correctly understood that the key to sovereignty is not legal arguments but physical possession and control – a continuous human presence. Whether an island generates an EEZ or simply a twelve-mile territorial sea is determined by whether or not it is able naturally to support human life. Hence the rush to seize and settle any and all land features in the South China Sea and to demonstrate that people can live on them.

In the late 1980s, China belatedly responded to the activities of other claimants in the Spratlys. After a bloody skirmish with Vietnamese forces at Johnson South (now Chigua / 赤瓜) Reef in March 1988, China seized seven land features and followed other claimants in building fortresses atop reefs and rocks.

Only two islands in the South China Sea were traditionally thought to meet the somewhat vague criterion of natural habitability. These were Yongxing Island in the Paracels and Taiping Island in the Spratlys, both claimed by China for at least 130 years and held for more than a half century by Chinese forces from Beijing and Taipei, respectively. But now there is a human encampment on every island, rock, and reef in the South China Sea where one can perch. There is nothing more for any claimant to occupy without dislodging another claimant.

This leaves claimants with few options for settling the question of who owns what. Altering the current pattern of possession would require either the expulsion or negotiated withdrawal of one or more of the parties. No party wants or sees any advantage in war. But no party’s nationalism will permit it to give up what it now has. And all want more.

Sovereignty could theoretically be bypassed as an issue through cooperative exploitation of natural resources, as China has repeatedly proposed, but generations of Chinese, Vietnamese, and Filipino schoolchildren have grown in classrooms with maps on their walls showing that all or most of the South China Sea is part of their country. The peoples of the littoral states seem determined to possess whatever’s off their shores, not just profit from it. By contrast with Brunei, Malaysia, and Thailand – which are jointly developing areas in dispute between them – in China, the Philippines, and Vietnam economic interest has so far been unable to make a dent in, still less overpower, possessive patriotism.

With neither war, negotiated compromise, nor joint development in prospect, there is impasse. And, in the South China Sea, impasse entails the entrenching of popular hostility, arms races, and the impairment of other relationships between claimants and their security partners amidst the constant danger of war by inadvertence. This is not a situation any party should find acceptable. But it is the inevitable outcome of an approach aimed at preventing conflict by managing contention rather than resolving the disputes that produced it. Instead of deterring conflict, the claimants need to remove its proximate causes and justifications.

The point of departure for doing this must be recognition that, with no land features left unoccupied, there is nothing more to be had without pushing other claimants off what they now possess. It is realistic to accept that the status quo is preferable to attempts to upend it. The requirement for setting aside specific claims so as to exploit resources jointly is no different. The prerequisite for any sort of resolution is a common understanding of who claims what and how the law of the sea might extrapolate additional rights from it.

In the end, whatever the proposed solution, there is no alternative to the well-known doctrine of international law known as _uti possidetis._ This is a Latin abbreviation of the phrase _uti possidetis, ita possidetis_, meaning “what you have, you may continue to hold,” regardless of how you acquired it. This understanding is the legal justification both for the retention of territory acquired in war and for peaceful coexistence and acquiescence in inherited frontiers between newly independent states. It replaces quarrels and controversies with peace, which diplomats define as “restrained tolerance of the status quo by those with the capability to alter it by violence.”

_Uti possidetis_ allows claimants to acknowledge and live with the status quo without having to agree that its establishment was right or proper. Its application to the land features in the South China Sea would clear the way for the clarification of boundaries on the basis of the law of the sea, supplemented by the demarcation of these boundaries through bilateral negotiations as required to draw median lines.

A total of forty-four features in the Spratlys are currently settled, occupied, or garrisoned: twenty-five by Hanoi, eight by Manila, seven by Beijing, three by Kuala Lumpur, and one by Taipei. The political difficulty for the claimants of accepting this outcome should not be underestimated. All sides feel cheated by it. None is without passion on the subject.

The numbers of features occupied reflect which countries were quickest and most vigorous in seizing them. So _uti possidetis_ would give Hanoi by far the largest share, with Manila second. Kuala Lumpur’s claims are already limited to what it actually possesses, so _uti possidetis_ would represent no sacrifice on its part. But Beijing – which was late in asserting itself – would be left with very little. That is a particularly difficult political problem for the Chinese Communist Party.

Since 1949, when Mao Zedong proclaimed the People’s Republic, the Party has staked the legitimacy of its rule in China on its having ended foreign disrespect for Chinese sovereignty, territorial integrity, and national dignity. Yet, on the Party’s watch over the past forty years, almost all of the land features China long claimed in the Spratlys have been seized, occupied, and garrisoned by other countries. This outcome is the direct result of policies of strategic forbearance imposed by Deng Xiaoping and linked to restraint by Beijing on other even more important challenges to China’s sovereignty and territorial integrity, such as how to deal with Taiwan. Accepting that China has permanently lost territory risks stimulating nationalists in both the China mainland and Taiwan to charge that the Communist Party’s recent foreign policies have undercut rather than served the mandate of Chinese nationalism.

But the alternative to a modus vivendi that accepts a status quo largely defined by other, smaller claimants is not just continuing friction and rancor in Chinese relations with these neighbors but ongoing Chinese military tension with the United States and the constant danger of war by inadvertence. China is in no danger of being driven from its holds in the Spratlys and Paracels. Its island-building activities are intended to establish that it’s not just there to stay but entitled to a strong role in the management of the area. Once this is clear, will Xi Jinping have the vision and courage to say no to impatient nationalists, as Deng Xiaoping did in the interest of conciliating and avoiding conflict with China’s neighbors and the United States?

The chances of Xi and other Chinese leaders doing so would be enhanced by a less confrontational stand toward China by the United States.. The transformation of claims between the South China Sea’s littoral states into a test of wills between Washington and Beijing has added an unhelpful overlay of great power rivalry to an already complex mix of impassioned disputes. In 2010 the United States dramatically asserted to a regional meeting in Hanoi that it had a mandate to prevent violent changes in the status quo in the South China Sea. At the same time, it declared that it took no position on claims there. This was ahistorical. It was also disingenuous and unpersuasive.

In practice, as some in the region recall, long before the United States turned against them as part of its “pivot to Asia” in 2010, America had supported China’s claims in the Paracels and Spratlys. The U.S. Navy facilitated China’s replacement of Japan’s military presence in both island groups in 1945 because it considered that they were either part of Taiwan, as Japan had declared, or – in the words of the Cairo Declaration – among other “territories Japan [had] stolen from the Chinese” to “be restored to the Republic of China.” From 1969 to 1971, the United States operated a radar station in the Spratlys at Taiping Island, under the flag of the Republic of China..

Neither the Paracels nor the Spratlys ever mattered to the United States at all (except as hazards to navigation) until they became symbols of Washington’s determination to curtail the rise of China’s power along its periphery. No country with claims to the Spratlys interferes with shipping or peacetime naval transit in the South China Sea. Nor does any party in the region have an interest in threatening commerce transiting it. The South China Sea is every littoral nation’s jugular. China and the other countries on the South China Sea have a far greater stake in assuring freedom of navigation in and through it than the United States does.

It is not in the U.S. interest to perpetuate the antagonisms that now inflame relations between claimants in sections of the South China Sea. They poison Sino-American relations as well as other littoral states’ relations with China. China’s neighbors have to live with China, and China has to live with them.

The Cold War seemed to teach the United States that safety lay in deterring conflict rather than in attempting to address its causes. But applying this timid approach (derived from yesterday’s nuclear standoff and strategic stasis) to the dynamic situation in today’s Indo-Pacific and South China Sea perpetuates rather than controls risk and escalates rather than subdues tensions. U.S. interests would be far better served by a bold attempt to eliminate the causes of conflict than by continuing the futile pursuit of mechanisms for managing tensions. Having taken sides against China, the United States cannot now hope to mediate between the parties. But it can make it clear that it would welcome, accept, and support the negotiated settlement of their differences.

Arguing for the conclusion of a code of conduct to ban land grabs and their fortification makes no sense when all land that can support fortifications has already been seized and is being built on. Finding a way to apply _uti possidetis_ in ways that minimize claimants’ political difficulties does make sense. If the United States cannot be part of a solution, it should demonstrate its leadership by encouraging Asian nations to pursue diplomacy that promotes one. Often, when diplomacy cannot immediately solve a problem, it can create a negotiating process that gives a solution time to ripen and negotiators the opportunity to craft one.

China and its neighbors should see and use American power as backing for peaceful efforts to resolve their disputes, not as an excuse for deferring or avoiding settlement of their differences. The “rebalancing” of U.S. global strategy toward the Indo-Pacific known as the “pivot” is timely and appropriate. But it should _lower_ military tensions between the nations of the Indo-Pacific and thus between China and the United States, not lock these tensions in, still less escalate them. Mark Twain once advised: “If you see someone coming down the street with his arms open and a big smile on his face, turn and run like hell!” Washington should not prove him right about this in the Indo-Pacific.

The issues of the South China Sea are too trivial to be allowed to spark armed conflict or trans-Pacific confrontation. They are solvable, if those enmeshed in them are willing to make the effort to imagine and pursue solutions to them. The parties need urgently to get on with this. And they deserve American encouragement to do so.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Zero_wing

Nihonjin1051 said:


> She looks beautiful ! JCG welcomes you to the ocean waters, brother. See you around
> 
> 
> 
> Shikishima Class of the JCG (3 will be made), and is at 9,300+ tonnes


Cant wait to see our Japanese build ships

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ahojunk

.
Chinese archaeologists set off for shipwreck excavation in Xisha

*Chinese archaeologists set off for shipwreck excavation in Xisha*
2015-04-13 14:17 Xinhua _Editor: Gu Liping_






A Chinese archaeological team has embarked on its journey to excavate a shipwreck near Shanhu Island in the Xisha archipelago in the South China Sea, local authorities said on Monday.

The 25-strong team left Qinglan Port, Wenchang City, Hainan Province, on Sunday for its 45-day research mission, according to the provincial cultural heritage administration.

This is the second notable landmark underwater archaeological excavation in the South China Sea following the Huaguang reef number one shipwreck in 2008 in the Xisha Islands, where a vessel loaded with porcelain sank more than 700 years ago.

The team will also carry out an underwater survey on another sunken ship around Jinyin Island in Xisha, said the spokesman.

The sites contain a substantial amount of stone building material and carvings dating back to the Qing Dynasty (1644-1911).

The Shanhu Island site, which is 2,000 meters from the island itself, covers about 20,000 square meters, with the water depth ranging from two to seven meters. Another site, which is 2,500 meters from Jinyin Island, covers about 45,000 square meters, at a depth ranging from three to nine meters.

As of last year, China had discovered more than 120 shipwrecks around Xisha, Nansha and Zhongsha islands.
.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## chou.wong

Viet said:


> go back to kindergarten, kid. when the bullets start flying, I bet you are the first who cries and runs to your mama.


sorry i don't need to fight because we have PLA, do you have ability avoiding becoming extinct？return back our island ,in ten years you will know how will our PLA desctryed a contry!



Viet said:


> go back to kindergarten, kid. when the bullets start flying, I bet you are the first who cries and runs to your mama.


rubish,monkey!


----------



## Viet

chou.wong said:


> sorry i don't need to fight because we have PLA, do you have ability avoiding becoming extinct？return back our island *,in ten year*s you will know how will our PLA desctryed a contry!
> 
> 
> rubish,monkey!


ha ha ha ...why in 10 years? why not today? you english is really terrible. go back to school or kindergarten, kid.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## initial_d

The only thing that can stop china agresive behavior is major natural disaster on mainland china ( 7 or 8 reichter scale earth quake that will destroy her economy). But for now i my self stop buying chinese product or stuff that being made in china.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zero_wing

chou.wong said:


> sorry i don't need to fight because we have PLA, do you have ability avoiding becoming extinct？return back our island ,in ten years you will know how will our PLA desctryed a contry!
> 
> 
> rubish,monkey!



Wow racist really man now i know why the Japanese tried to get rid of you kind back in the day



Viet said:


> ha ha ha ...why in 10 years? why not today? you english is really terrible. go back to school or kindergarten, kid.



This chincoms are arrogant SOBs pay no attention to their stupidity


----------



## Viet

very funny. the mod deleted my posts and kept all insultings of chinese members intact.
@Oscar, can you pls have a look here? thank you.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ahojunk

_*China says it is more than willing to turn the South China Sea into a platform for cooperation*_.

-----------------------------------
Drop fearmongering over South China Sea
2015-04-17 10:26 Xinhua Editor: Gu Liping

Despite China's repeated assertions on upholding peace in the South China Sea, rhetoric about China creating military threat in the region has been ratcheted up.

The most recent example is Philippine President Benigno Aquino's accusation that China's efforts to claim most of the South China Sea should "engender fear for the rest of the world."

Aside from the fact that the claim is groundless, using maritime disputes to peddle fear of China is irresponsible and of no value in settling the disputes. It is fearmongering for the sake of fear.

China's work on some of the Nansha Islands landmasses in the South China Sea falls entirely within its sovereignty.

The root cause of the territorial disputes between the two countries is Philippines' occupation since the 1970s of some of the Nansha Islands. It took them with force.

China's work on the islands mostly serves civil purposes apart from meeting the needs of military defense. China is aiming to provide shelter, aid in navigation, weather forecasts and fishery assistance to ships of various countries passing through the sea.

Moreover, as China embarks on building the 21st Century Maritime Silk Road (MSR), the trade and infrastructure network that will connect China with Southeast Asian nations, Africa and Europe, it is *more than willing to turn the South China Sea into a platform for cooperation*.

Running contrary to this vision. the idea of China sealing off shipping lanes or thwarting fishing activities is but ill-intentioned speculation.

Aquino's vague expression that "there was no guarantee that shipping lanes vital to global trade would remain open" suggested he was making assumptions.

Worse, he used the assumptions to support another ungrounded assertion that China's activities should spark fear all around the world.

Touting "China fear" based on assumptions is an audacious move. However, the Philippines is emboldened as it is merely echoing messages coming from the United States.

Just days ago, Barack Obama accused China of using its "sheer size and muscle" to bully smaller claimants such as the Philippines and Vietnam in the South China Sea disputes.

The Philippines has over the years appealed to the sympathy of the international community and military protection from the United States, and created the mirage that China is a bully.

The trick is easy to sell as it caters to the U.S. penchant of hyping fear of China's intentions, particularly in evidence as it worries needlessly over the China-led Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank.

Fear will only escalate tension and rivalry. China holds the position that the disputes should be settled through direct negotiation and candid dialogue.

China is moving in this direction, with a meeting earlier this month between Premier Li Keqiang and the chief of the Vietnamese Communist Party establishing consensus on handling the disputes.
.


----------



## Zero_wing

ahojunk said:


> _*China says it is more than willing to turn the South China Sea into a platform for cooperation*_.
> 
> -----------------------------------
> Drop fearmongering over South China Sea
> 2015-04-17 10:26 Xinhua Editor: Gu Liping
> 
> Despite China's repeated assertions on upholding peace in the South China Sea, rhetoric about China creating military threat in the region has been ratcheted up.
> 
> The most recent example is Philippine President Benigno Aquino's accusation that China's efforts to claim most of the South China Sea should "engender fear for the rest of the world."
> 
> Aside from the fact that the claim is groundless, using maritime disputes to peddle fear of China is irresponsible and of no value in settling the disputes. It is fearmongering for the sake of fear.
> 
> China's work on some of the Nansha Islands landmasses in the South China Sea falls entirely within its sovereignty.
> 
> The root cause of the territorial disputes between the two countries is Philippines' occupation since the 1970s of some of the Nansha Islands. It took them with force.
> 
> China's work on the islands mostly serves civil purposes apart from meeting the needs of military defense. China is aiming to provide shelter, aid in navigation, weather forecasts and fishery assistance to ships of various countries passing through the sea.
> 
> Moreover, as China embarks on building the 21st Century Maritime Silk Road (MSR), the trade and infrastructure network that will connect China with Southeast Asian nations, Africa and Europe, it is *more than willing to turn the South China Sea into a platform for cooperation*.
> 
> Running contrary to this vision. the idea of China sealing off shipping lanes or thwarting fishing activities is but ill-intentioned speculation.
> 
> Aquino's vague expression that "there was no guarantee that shipping lanes vital to global trade would remain open" suggested he was making assumptions.
> 
> Worse, he used the assumptions to support another ungrounded assertion that China's activities should spark fear all around the world.
> 
> Touting "China fear" based on assumptions is an audacious move. However, the Philippines is emboldened as it is merely echoing messages coming from the United States.
> 
> Just days ago, Barack Obama accused China of using its "sheer size and muscle" to bully smaller claimants such as the Philippines and Vietnam in the South China Sea disputes.
> 
> The Philippines has over the years appealed to the sympathy of the international community and military protection from the United States, and created the mirage that China is a bully.
> 
> The trick is easy to sell as it caters to the U.S. penchant of hyping fear of China's intentions, particularly in evidence as it worries needlessly over the China-led Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank.
> 
> Fear will only escalate tension and rivalry. China holds the position that the disputes should be settled through direct negotiation and candid dialogue.
> 
> China is moving in this direction, with a meeting earlier this month between Premier Li Keqiang and the chief of the Vietnamese Communist Party establishing consensus on handling the disputes.
> .



Yet their action tells differently hypocracy is a Bit@ch


----------



## ahojunk

*The Chinese are now complaining.....*

----------
China tells Philippines, Vietnam to cease intrusive action at sea
English.news.cn 2015-04-29 19:02:01

BEIJING, April 29 (Xinhua) -- China told the Philippines and Vietnam on Wednesday to halt all intrusive action on China-owned islands in the South China Sea, following its rejection of concerns voiced by ASEAN.


Some reports said the chairman's statement at the 26th ASEAN Summit, which expressed concern over China's activities on the islands, ignored the large-scale reclamation and military buildup by certain ASEAN members in the South China Sea.

Defending China's building activities, Foreign Ministry spokesperson Hong Lei on Tuesday said China's construction activities on the Nansha Islands are within the scope of China's sovereignty, which is unimpeachable.

The Philippines and Vietnam are illegally occupying islands and reefs that are part of China's Nansha Islands, where they have built fixed facilities like airports, reclaimed land and even deployed offensive weapons like missiles, Hong told reporters on Wednesday.

"China expresses grave concern and strong opposition to these illegal activities," Hong said, urging relevant countries to "immediately stop all action and words that infringe upon China's sovereignty and interests."

The Philippines has built an airport and dock on Zhongye Dao, Nansha Islands, while constructing tourism facilities there and on another two islands, Mahuan Dao and Feixin Dao, according to Hong.

The Philippines' stranded warship near the Ren'ai Reef has served as a permanent installation since 1999 in an attempt to seize the reef, he said.

Vietnam has undertaken large-scale reclamation work on more than twenty islands and reefs belonging to Nansha Islands, building ports, runways, missile positions, office buildings, camps, hotels and lighthouses, the spokesperson said.

Vietnam has also built a number of houses and helicopter platforms on Wan'an Tan, Xiwei Tan, Lizhun Tan and Aonan Ansha, Hong added.
.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## biendong

*China publicly renovates reefs as world supports Vietnam*
_VietNamNet Bridge – Regarding the latest move by China, Le Viet Truong, Vice Chair of the National Assembly Committee for Defense and Security, said the analysis of the local and international media of China’s calculations in the East Sea is credible. The evidence shows that China is not only renovating Gac Ma (Johnson) Reef but also the Vanh Khan (Mischief) Reef._

In terms of strategy, Truong said that if both reefs are built up to become military bases, they will work as two outposts, like a pair of pincers to control all activities in the East Sea. Thus, all the rights of nations in the world that are related to this maritime route will be affected.

"China is increasingly unruly and openly expresses the plan of renovating reefs for military purposes. Thus, Vietnam must speak out more strongly," he said.

Commenting on Vietnam's reaction against China’s acts in the East Sea, Truong said: "Vietnam has expressed its stance on the island and marine sovereignty issues based on the spirit of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea 1982."

Specifically, each time Vietnam voiced its sentiments, they filed the statements to the UN. This shows the continued expression of Vietnam’s viewpoints.

"I think such an extent is necessary and reasonable. We must base everything on international law to behave properly," said Truong.

On the recent actions of China, Truong said that the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, on behalf of the Government of Vietnam, has to raise their voice promptly to clarify the dangerous nature of China’s action. Vietnam must clearly state that these actions are contrary to the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the Sea (DOC) signed between ASEAN and China as well as agreements between the leaders of Vietnam and China.

"This move threatens peace, and the stability and security of the region," he said.

Commenting on the reaction of the international community, Truong said the world has responded to this move and will certainly raise a stronger voice.

Truong said: "Especially those countries with a direct interest here, as the US or the Philippines, have also stated that China had made very dangerous moves, violating the sovereignty and jurisdiction of other countries to the sea and the continental shelf of East Sea. Recently, during his visit to Vietnam, the Russian Prime Minister also expressed his views in this regard."

"For my part, I think that Vietnam needs to take stronger moves," Truong said.

*Dat Viet*


----------



## Zero_wing

Hey d bag they called vietnamise learn to use the proper tags d bag



ahojunk said:


> *The Chinese are now complaining.....*
> 
> ----------
> China tells Philippines, Vietnam to cease intrusive action at sea
> English.news.cn 2015-04-29 19:02:01
> 
> BEIJING, April 29 (Xinhua) -- China told the Philippines and Vietnam on Wednesday to halt all intrusive action on China-owned islands in the South China Sea, following its rejection of concerns voiced by ASEAN.
> 
> 
> Some reports said the chairman's statement at the 26th ASEAN Summit, which expressed concern over China's activities on the islands, ignored the large-scale reclamation and military buildup by certain ASEAN members in the South China Sea.
> 
> Defending China's building activities, Foreign Ministry spokesperson Hong Lei on Tuesday said China's construction activities on the Nansha Islands are within the scope of China's sovereignty, which is unimpeachable.
> 
> The Philippines and Vietnam are illegally occupying islands and reefs that are part of China's Nansha Islands, where they have built fixed facilities like airports, reclaimed land and even deployed offensive weapons like missiles, Hong told reporters on Wednesday.
> 
> "China expresses grave concern and strong opposition to these illegal activities," Hong said, urging relevant countries to "immediately stop all action and words that infringe upon China's sovereignty and interests."
> 
> The Philippines has built an airport and dock on Zhongye Dao, Nansha Islands, while constructing tourism facilities there and on another two islands, Mahuan Dao and Feixin Dao, according to Hong.
> 
> The Philippines' stranded warship near the Ren'ai Reef has served as a permanent installation since 1999 in an attempt to seize the reef, he said.
> 
> Vietnam has undertaken large-scale reclamation work on more than twenty islands and reefs belonging to Nansha Islands, building ports, runways, missile positions, office buildings, camps, *hotels and
> 
> * lighthouses, the spokesperson said.
> 
> Vietnam has also built a number of houses and helicopter platforms on Wan'an Tan, Xiwei Tan, Lizhun Tan and Aonan Ansha, Hong added.
> .



laugble they are the only ones building islands out everything once again china has lied to the world


----------



## Viet

ahojunk said:


> *The Chinese are now complaining.....*
> 
> ----------
> China tells Philippines, Vietnam to cease intrusive action at sea
> English.news.cn 2015-04-29 19:02:01
> 
> BEIJING, April 29 (Xinhua) -- China told the Philippines and Vietnam on Wednesday to halt all intrusive action on China-owned islands in the South China Sea, following its rejection of concerns voiced by ASEAN.
> 
> 
> Some reports said the chairman's statement at the 26th ASEAN Summit, which expressed concern over China's activities on the islands, ignored the large-scale reclamation and military buildup by certain ASEAN members in the South China Sea.
> 
> Defending China's building activities, Foreign Ministry spokesperson Hong Lei on Tuesday said China's construction activities on the Nansha Islands are within the scope of China's sovereignty, which is unimpeachable.
> 
> The Philippines and Vietnam are illegally occupying islands and reefs that are part of China's Nansha Islands, where they have built fixed facilities like airports, reclaimed land and even deployed offensive weapons like missiles, Hong told reporters on Wednesday.
> 
> "China expresses grave concern and strong opposition to these illegal activities," Hong said, urging relevant countries to "immediately stop all action and words that infringe upon China's sovereignty and interests."
> 
> The Philippines has built an airport and dock on Zhongye Dao, Nansha Islands, while constructing tourism facilities there and on another two islands, Mahuan Dao and Feixin Dao, according to Hong.
> 
> The Philippines' stranded warship near the Ren'ai Reef has served as a permanent installation since 1999 in an attempt to seize the reef, he said.
> 
> Vietnam has undertaken large-scale reclamation work on more than twenty islands and reefs belonging to Nansha Islands, building ports, runways, missile positions, office buildings, camps, hotels and lighthouses, the spokesperson said.
> 
> Vietnam has also built a number of houses and helicopter platforms on Wan'an Tan, Xiwei Tan, Lizhun Tan and Aonan Ansha, Hong added.
> .


has anyone pictures of our large-scale land reclamation on 20 islands and reefs?
_._


----------



## yusheng

With an accommodation for 130 people, "Coslprospector" can operate in seawater of upto1,500 meters and drill to a depth of 7,600 meters, according to the builder. It can resist winds of upto 117 km per hour.
yesterday，April30, it set out to SCS.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ahojunk

*China turns the table and invites the Americans and others to use the civilian facilities in its SCS islands ..... *

----------------
China says U.S. welcome to use civilian facilities in South China Sea
Thu Apr 30, 2015 10:02pm EDT
BEIJING

(Reuters) - The United States and other countries will be welcome to use civilian facilities China is building in the South China Sea for search and rescue and weather forecasting "when conditions are right", China's navy chief has told a senior U.S. officer.

China claims 90 percent of the South China Sea, which is believed to be rich in oil and gas, with overlapping claims from Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines, Vietnam and Taiwan.

Recent satellite images show China has made rapid progress in building an airstrip suitable for military use in the disputed Spratly Islands and may be planning another.

Those moves, along with other reclamations, have caused alarm around the region and in Washington too, with the issue dominating a summit of Southeast Asian leaders this week, to China's displeasure.

In a teleconference with the U.S. Chief of Naval Operations Jonathan Greenert, China's navy chief Wu Shengli said China's building work in the South China Sea would not affect freedom of navigation or overflight.

"Instead, it will improve the ability in these seas of public services like weather forecasting and maritime search and rescue, fulfilling international obligations to maintain the security of international seas," Wu said, according to a Chinese Defence Ministry statement released late on Thursday.

"(We) welcome international organizations, the United States and relevant countries to use these facilities in the future when conditions are right, to have cooperation on humanitarian search and rescue and disaster relief," Wu added.

The statement cited Greenert as saying he hoped China could explain to countries in the region in a timely manner the aim of the building work. It would also be good for maintaining stability and freedom of navigation if other countries could use such facilities for joint humanitarian operations, he said.

Disputes over how to tackle an increasingly assertive stance by China - an ally of several Southeast Asian states - in the strategic South China Sea make the issue the region's biggest potential military flashpoint.

China this week accused Vietnam, the Philippines and others of carrying out their own illegal building work.

While the militaries of China and the United States have worked hard to improve communication and cooperation, there is still deep mistrust. In 2013, a U.S. guided missile cruiser narrowly avoided a collision with a Chinese warship in the South China Sea.

Wu said U.S. surveillance operations were "totally out of step" with efforts to improve their military relations.
.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## makky lozano

*US rejects China’s offer over disputed islands*

WASHINGTON – The United States on Friday swiftly rejected a suggestion by a top Chinese military official that it use Chinese facilities on disputed islands in the South China Sea for international rescue and relief operations.

Beijing has been roundly criticized by the West for construction work on islands in the South China Sea, including the building of an airstrip and other structures.

The _Wall Street Journal_ and other US news organizations, citing a report on the Chinese Defense Ministry website, said Admiral Wu Shengli made the offer to his US counterpart Admiral Jonathan Greenert in a video conference.

Wu said China’s reclamation work on the disputed islands “will not threaten freedom of navigation and overflight” and will enhance the capacity for weather forecasting, maritime search and rescue and other public goods, and help to protect international maritime security, the _Journal_ said, quoting the Chinese defense ministry report.

“We welcome international organizations, the US and relevant countries to use these facilities, when conditions are ripe, to conduct cooperation on humanitarian rescue and disaster relief,” the Chinese admiral was quoted as saying.

State Department acting deputy spokesman Jeff Rathke said Washington was not interested.

“Building facilities on reclaimed land in disputed areas will not contribute to peace and stability in the region,” Rathke told reporters.

“This is true even if, as some Chinese officials have stated, the facilities in question were used for civilian disaster response purposes,” he said.

“If there is a desire to reduce tensions, China could actively reduce them by taking concrete steps to halt land reclamation,” he added.

Beijing should “work with existing multilateral mechanisms for humanitarian and disaster relief,” such as one under the umbrella of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN).

ASEAN issued a statement Monday at the close of a summit in Malaysia expressing “serious concerns” over China’s land reclamation on reefs whose sovereignty is contested.

Beijing insists it has sovereignty over almost all of the South China Sea, parts of which are claimed by several other Asian nations.

The construction work has triggered fears of tightening Chinese control over the seaway.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

*5500-ton* *CCG 3501，another fine ship for the SCS in the making *


----------



## makky lozano

*Calls to Punish China Grow*


Following a year of China’s flagrant and aggressive activities in contested waters, some in Washington are calling for President Obama to cancel China’s invitation to the largest maritime military exercise in the world

Some leaders in Congress and the military want to exclude China, warning about its military buildup in the East China Sea and the South China Sea, which includes a rapid plan to build military-friendly infrastructure on new islands in waters where at least six Asian nations have competing claims.Satellite photos released last month show that in the past year China has built what Admiral Harry Harris, commander of the U.S. Pacific Fleet, called a “Great Wall of Sand”: China has created new islands in the South China Sea and begun construction of helipads and anti-aircraft towers.


Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman John McCain told me that China’s actions over the last year call into question the Obama administration’s plan to invite China to the next Rim of the Pacific exercise, scheduled for summer 2016 near Honolulu.

“I would not have invited them this time because of their bad behavior,” said McCain. “In the last number of years they had filled in 60 acres of land around these islands; in the last year they have filled in 600 acres and they are putting in a runway. I don’t think there is any doubt about their territorial ambitions.”

China was officially invited to the RIMPAC exercises in 2014 for the first time, along with 21 other nations including several countries with whom Beijing has maritime territorial disputes, such as Vietnam and the Philippines. China brought a surprise to the last RIMPAC exercise: a surveillance spy ship that was neither expected nor welcomed.

McCain said China’s buildup in the South China Sea could lead to China establishing a new air defense identification zone in the South China Sea -- a de facto declaration of official Chinese airspace, similar to the zone China unilaterally announced in the East China Sea in 2013.

The U.S. opposed that move in 2013, but McCain said the administration needs to do more to deter China from creating a second air defense identification zone.

“That would a de facto assertion that it is Chinese airspace. I don’t think there’s any doubt the Chinese are acting in an aggressive manner,” said McCain. “Our Pacific Fleet commander has issued warning after warning, which have apparently been ignored.”

Inside the U.S. government, there is tension over whether the U.S. should increase cooperation with China to maintain ties, or put more distance between the two militaries. On the side of more robust engagement is the U.S. chief of naval operations, Admiral Jonathan Greenert, who has worked closely with China’s naval chief, Admiral Wu Shengli.

Last year, Greenert proposed to grant a Chinese request to have a U.S. aircraft carrier visit China and open up access for Chinese military officials. In February, McCain wrote to the secretary of Defense, then Chuck Hagel, in opposition to the idea. One month later, Hagel's replacement, Ash Carter, responded to tell McCain the carrier visit would not happen.

“The current regional environment and military balance considerations inform DOD’s engagement calculus, and as you suggest, a U.S. aircraft carrier visit would not support our stated objectives at this time,” Carter wrote.

Since taking up his post, Carter has taken a prominent role in security issues involving Asia. One Congressional aide briefed on the issue said that the Office of the Secretary of Defense told the Navy that it did not want China to be invited to RIMPAC 2016 given recent behavior but that the Navy is insisting on inviting China again. The Navy’s position is supported by the head of U.S. Pacific Command, Admiral Samuel Locklear, who is pushing more military to military engagement with China.

The White House is said to be open to the idea of disinviting China from RIMPAC and taking a tougher stance toward China’s aggression in the South China Sea, but so far hasn’t been assertive in weighing in on the debate, said one administration official who works on Asia-Pacific issues.

National Security Council Spokesman Patrick Ventrell declined to comment on RIMPAC specifically but said the administration is “working to deepen practical military cooperation on issues such as disaster response and counter-piracy, while at the same time developing and implementing confidence building measures that reduce the risk of accidents or miscalculation.”

Patrick Cronin, the head of the Asia-Pacific Security program at the Center for a New American Security, said the U.S. should be exacting a diplomatic and reputational price for China's bad behavior while increasing cooperation with other countries in the region.

“We are trying to avoid being outmaneuvered by a very active and assertive China,” said Cronin. “When they do things to violate the norms, we have to make sure they don’t benefit.”

But the cost to China should not necessarily include being excluded from RIMPAC, he said: The exercises can advance common goals involving things like maritime law and safety, search and rescue, and humanitarian relief.

“It all depends on what you think RIMPAC should be,” said Cronin. “For us to have China there is important, but that doesn’t mean that China is coming there with good intentions.”

Other experts argue that even if there is no national security risk to inviting China to RIMPAC, China simply does not deserve the privilege of participating.

“They don’t get any secrets at RIMPAC. The bigger issue is their attitude and behavior,” said Michael Auslin, senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute. “You uphold certain standards and if China doesn’t meet those standards, they haven’t earned another invite back.”

The U.S.-China relationship is delicate, and the decision to punish China should be made with great care. But the Navy’s single-minded focus on engagement and the administration’s overall resistance to calling out China for bad behavior are shortsighted.

Rethinking the quantity and quality of the engagement with China actually might be better for the relationship over the long term. What’s clear is that so far, China is paying no price for its aggression. Until the Obama administration changes that, Beijing will continue to change facts on the ground


----------



## cirr

5900-ton *CCG 2506 





*

Good for running down the thieves in the SCS。

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zero_wing

cirr said:


> 5900-ton *CCG 2506
> 
> View attachment 218872
> *
> 
> Good for running down the thieves in the SCS。



Wow the thief is calling us the rightful owners thieves? cant wait for the ITCOLS rulling to shut you chincoms up for good


----------



## ahojunk

Cambodia objects attempts to use ASEAN to settle territorial disputes: official
May 07,2015

PHNOM PENH, May 7 (Xinhua) -- A Cambodian government official on Thursday reiterated the country's position on the South China Sea disputes, saying that the territorial disputes must be resolved bilaterally between China and claimant states, not between ASEAN and China.

"We do not support any attempt by some ASEAN countries to use the ASEAN to settle the territorial disputes because ASEAN is not a legal or judicial body," Soeung Rathchavy, Foreign Affairs Ministry Secretary of State in charge of ASEAN Affairs, told reporters after she briefed to ambassadors and representatives of more than 20 countries to Cambodia about the outcome of the recent 26th ASEAN Summit in Malaysia.

"Cambodia's position on the South China Sea is still the same: The territorial claims must be settled by bilateral parties or all parties related in the disputes," she said.

The official said all involved countries should continue negotiations peacefully based on international laws, including the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS).

She also urged all parties related in the disputes to fully implement the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea (DOC) towards the compilation of the Code of Conduct ( COC).

The Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) groups Brunei, Cambodia, Indonesia, Laos, Malaysia, Myanmar, the Philippines, Singapore, Thailand and Vietnam.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Aepsilons

Japan and the Philippines will hold their first joint naval drill this month in the South China Sea near a disputed shoal claimed by Beijing, sources in Tokyo and the Philippines said.
The May 12 maritime safety exercise, which will practice the code for unplanned encounters at sea, known as CUES, is part of an agreement signed by Japan and the Philippines in January aimed at tightening security cooperation.


The nature of the training is unlikely to worry China unduly, as it has conducted similar exercises with the United States in the past.

But the presence of Japanese naval vessels in the South China Sea signals Japan's growing interest in the region, and may irritate Beijing as criticism of its land reclamation projects there mounts.

"The exercise will not be far from Scarborough Shoal," one of the sources in Japan said, referring to a rocky outcrop which China seized in 2012 after a three-month standoff with the Philippines.

The two-hour practice within Philippines territorial waters near Subic Bay, a former U.S. navy base, will involve a Japanese warship and a Philippines navy frigate, a spokesman at the Philippines Navy said.

A spokesman for Japan's Maritime Self Defense Force declined to comment.




Japan, Philippines to hold first naval drill in South China Sea: sources | TODAYonline




@Cossack25A1 @Zero_wing @Dakila @Ayan81 @JayMandan

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## 大汉奸柳传志

Oh no this is crossing the line, Japan

Are we informed in advance？

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## terranMarine

Japan wishes to challenge China in SCS?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Aepsilons

The platform in which we are operating is through the Japan-Philippines Security Partnership that was heralded in 2011 and formalized in 2012. 

President Aquino will give Japan access to the Subic Naval Base, a former US military facility facing the South China Sea.

Japan, too, gains from increased cooperation. The Philippines will play a role in Japan’s nascent defence strategy of deploying Japanese marine troops and surveillance drones to protect its remote islands in the East China Sea. Also, a better relationship with the Philippines fits in with Japan’s foreign policy strategy of re-engaging ASEAN.

Japan’s and the Philippines’ strategic and economic interests are converging. Their relationship is no longer defined by the bitter memories of brutal Japanese occupation. Instead, their priorities are to ensure economic growth, shared property, and regional stability.


----------



## Cossack25A1

Now I am expecting keyboard comedians to post about dropping something over Manila or Tokyo and say "China stronk!"

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zero_wing

Man cant wait and long forwad to it

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Aepsilons

Zero_wing said:


> Man cant wait and long forwad to it





Share some pictures okay ?


----------



## Zero_wing

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Share some pictures okay ?



I maybe i dont have


----------



## ahojunk

Images show Vietnam's South China Sea reclamation, China defends own
By: *David Brunnstrom and Ben Blanchard, Reuters*
May 8, 2015 11:51 PM 





_Vietnamese-controlled West London Reef is pictured in the South China Sea in 2015, in this handout photo provided by CSIS Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative/DigitalGlobe. REUTERS_

InterAksyon -The online news portal of TV5

WASHINGTON/BEIJING - Newly released images show Vietnam has carried out significant land reclamation at two sites in the disputed South China Sea, though the scale and pace is dwarfed by that of China, a US research institute said.

In response, China condemned Vietnam's actions, and said its work in the region was part of an obligation to the international community to improve navigation safety and contribute to science and research, including building observation platforms to monitor sea levels.

The photographs, shared with Reuters by Washington's Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS), show an expansion of the land area of Vietnamese-controlled Sand Cay and West London Reef in the Spratly archipelago and the addition of buildings.

Mira Rapp-Hooper, director of CSIS's Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative (amti.csis.org/), said the work included military installations and appeared to have started before China began a flurry of reclamation projects last year.

The photographs, taken by satellite imagery firm DigitalGlobe, were taken between 2010 and April 30 this year.

"On one site, it has constructed a significant new area that was formerly under water and at another it has used land reclamation to add acreage to an existing island," Rapp-Hooper said.

Vietnam's government did not immediately respond to a request for comment, but routinely says it has sufficient legal and historical evidence to support its claims in the Spratlys.

Chinese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying said that Vietnam, the Philippines and other countries had been carrying out such reclamations for a long time on what she said were Chinese islands being illegally occupied.

"We demand that the relevant countries stop all their activities which infringe upon China's sovereignty and rights," she told a daily news briefing.

*International obligations*

Hua added that China's building work was partly to better fulfill its international obligations, including as part of a deal agreed at a UNESCO meeting in Paris in 1987.

There, she said, China was entrusted to build five out of 200 sea level observation platforms, including on the Spratlys.

"The scale of China's construction should be commensurate with its responsibilities and obligations as a major country," Hua added.

The speed of recent Chinese reclamation work has alarmed its neighbors and the United States, which sees it as a potential threat to the status quo in a region through which $5 trillion of sea-borne trade passes each year.

China claims 90 percent of the potentially energy-rich South China Sea, with overlapping claims from Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines, Vietnam and Taiwan.

New Vietnamese military facilities at Sand Cay appeared to include defensive positions and gun emplacements, and new buildings visible on West London Reef could also have military applications, Rapp-Hooper said.

"Strictly speaking, these photos show that China is right," Rapp-Hooper said, "but we can safely say that the scope and scale of what China has undertaken is totally unprecedented and dwarfs Vietnam's activities many times over."

She said the images showed that Vietnam had reclaimed about 65,000 square meters (699,654 square feet) of land at West London Reef and 21,000 square meters (226,042 square feet) at Sand Cay. This compared to 900,000 square meters (9.6 million square feet) reclaimed by China at a single reef, Fiery Cross.

Rapp-Hooper said satellite images showed that since about March 2014, China had conducted reclamation work at seven sites in the Spratlys and was constructing a military-sized air strip on one artificial island and possibly a second on another.

She said Vietnam already had an airstrip on the Spratlys.

The US State Department and Pentagon had no immediate comment on the latest images.

US President Barack Obama last month accused China of "flexing its muscles" to advance its maritime claims.

The Philippines has been the most vocal critic in Asia of China's reclamation work, but was unlikely to be troubled by Vietnam's activities partly because of growing security ties between Manila and Hanoi, experts said.

"For the Philippines, Vietnam's reclamation activities are not threatening because they are only small scale compared to China, which is very large scale," said Rommel Banlaoi, a Philippine security expert. *(Additional reporting by Manuel Mogato in Manila and Martin Petty in Hanoi)*


----------



## BoQ77

CHAIRMAN’S STATEMENT OF THE 26TH ASEAN SUMMIT
CHAIRMAN’S STATEMENT OF THE 26TH ASEAN SUMMIT KUALA LUMPUR & LANGKAWI, 27 APRIL 2015 “OUR PEOPLE, OUR COMMUNITY, OUR VISION”

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Aepsilons

*Update*




The JMSDF's two warships, the JS Harusame and the JS Amagiri have arrived in Manila Harbor , both will take active role in the naval exercises with the Philippine Navy on the 12th of May. All in all, 700 sailors of the JMSDF will be taking part with the Filipino counterparts.



*JS Harusame, a Murasame Class Destroyer:*








*JS Amagiri, an Asagiri Class Destroyer:*

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Aepsilons

utp45 said:


> Oh no this is crossing the line, Japan
> 
> Are we informed in advance？




How is it crossing the line? We are just having naval exercise in the Philippines' territory.


----------



## Beast

Zero_wing said:


> Man cant wait and long forwad to it


Cant wait to have more philippine fisherman shoo off from SCS? 

China will respond with more CMA ship patrolling. Reclamation at Scarborough shoal and a huge airfield near Luzon island 



Nihonjin1051 said:


> How is it crossing the line? We are just having naval exercise in the Philippines' territory.



It does no good to Sino-Japan trade. China always tie national interest with trade.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## 大汉奸柳传志

Nihonjin1051 said:


> How is it crossing the line? We are just having naval exercise in the Philippines' territory.


Nervermind，China was informed
We just dont want the Pinoys getting any ideas. Every time after a military exercise they feel tough for a few weeks.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Aepsilons

utp45 said:


> Nervermind，China was informed
> We just dont want the Pinoys getting any ideas. Every time after a military exercise they feel tough for a few weeks.




You know Japan would not want to cause ire by conducting military exercise in disputed territory.

The exercise is to take place close to Palawan, and near the Kalayaan Islands, which is occupied and held by the Philippines.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## JayMandan

utp45 said:


> Nervermind，China was informed
> We just dont want the Pinoys getting any ideas. Every time after a military exercise they feel tough for a few weeks.


Who's "we"?


----------



## Cossack25A1

JayMandan said:


> Who's "we"?



1.3 billion screaming people in the mainland.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Black Stone

You know this is very normal for Japan and Philippines. They share the same enemy.


----------



## BoQ77

New move, new alliance, new success.


----------



## 大汉奸柳传志

JayMandan said:


> Who's "we"?


Everyone except the Pinoys apparently


----------



## JayMandan

Self delete. Poster above an obvious troll. Will add to ignore list.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viva India

No US !

strange


----------



## Aepsilons



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zero_wing

Its good we are going to buy some Japanese ships and other military items so nice to see it in action

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## jkroo

It is a little strange I feel that @Nihonjin1051 is a little careful and serious. It's not your style Nihonjin. Our neitizens must have noticed that.

Personally, I do welcome this kind of drills, the more closer to the line, it will do more good to China. Don't be shy, guys. Further more, I should thank comrade Aquino. You are seriously call for more resources to be poured into SCS, I personally appreciate it.

For what you have seen and will see in near future, more resources will come from China.
1. More coast guard ships will be built and will be dispatched to SCS and ECS.
2. More strategy missles will be manufactured and will be commissioned in certain bases and target more certain facilities.
3. News and comments here will definitely be transfered to domestic forums and social networks to 'terrify' our neitizens, so there will be a louder voice about construct more missles, warships and aircrafts. Oh, that is a good signals to me. 
4. Ah, More daily routines for surveillance would be pushed to coast guard units and more drills plan will be carried out from PLAN to avoid being terrified. I feel 'sad' for our boys that so much works are pushed to them. 
5. The accuracy of BEIDOU Navigation System will be most improved for military use to see how you guys are 'terrifying' us.

Damn, though I am really terrified, it seems that it is not a bad result for what I could see. So, it seems that you Nihonjin have already predict and see that? You are a smart guy. This drills have some influences to your country's long term strategy which is pursuing to be a 'normal country'. No offence, but through my observation from this thread, some people really have IQ issues. It is not that bad, right? You have fun and we have things done, fair enough! 

For a high-context conversation sake, I would reminder our Nihonjin, you are just too prudent to dances on top of eggs and play subtle games that will lead to that you will be hated by someone for a little time.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zero_wing

Man you people are insecure


----------



## Aepsilons

jkroo said:


> It is a little strange I feel that @Nihonjin1051 is a little careful and serious. It's not your style Nihonjin. Our neitizens must have noticed that.
> 
> Personally, I do welcome this kind of drills, the more closer to the line, it will do more good to China. Don't be shy, guys. Further more, I should thank comrade Aquino. You are seriously call for more resources to be poured into SCS, I personally appreciate it.
> 
> For what you have seen and will see in near future, more resources will come from China.
> 1. More coast guard ships will be built and will be dispatched to SCS and ECS.
> 2. More strategy missles will be manufactured and will be commissioned in certain bases and target more certain facilities.
> 3. News and comments here will definitely be transfered to domestic forums and social networks to 'terrify' our neitizens, so there will be a louder voice about construct more missles, warships and aircrafts. Oh, that is a good signals to me.
> 4. Ah, More daily routines for surveillance would be pushed to coast guard units and more drills plan will be carried out from PLAN to avoid being terrified. I feel 'sad' for our boys that so much works are pushed to them.
> 5. The accuracy of BEIDOU Navigation System will be most improved for military use to see how you guys are 'terrifying' us.
> 
> Damn, though I am really terrified, but it seems that it is not a bad result for what I could see. So, it seems that you Nihonjin have already predict and see that? You are a smart guy. This drills have some influences to your country's long term strategy which is pursuing to be a 'normal country'. No offence, but through my observation from this thread, some people really have IQ issues. It is not that bad, right? You have fun and we have things done, fair enough!
> 
> For a high-context conversation sake, I would reminder our Nihonjin, you are just too prudent to dances on top of eggs and play subtle games that will lead to that you will be hated by someone for a little time.


----------



## Aepsilons

Japanese destroyers Harusame (back) and Amigiri (front) docking at Manila South harbour

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

who help them move closer to each other?


----------



## Aepsilons

BoQ77 said:


> who help them move closer to each other?




The Philippine Navy.


----------



## BoQ77

Malaysia Singapore and Indonesia navies are going to joint patrol the SCS.


----------



## BoQ77

JCG in Da Nang for joint exercises


----------



## biendong

Japan coast guard shipvisited Da Nang Vietnam recently 10 - 14/5/2016.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

05.05.2015: 5500-ton *CCG 3501* on the move


----------



## BoQ77

They are so big. Mostly equal 052D


----------



## Viet

Gazprom and PetroVietnam to drill first deep-water well offshore Vietnam this year
RELEASE


May 6, 2015, 13:30

The Gazprom headquarters hosted today a working meeting between Alexey Miller, Chairman of the Company’s Management Committee and Nguyen Xuan Son, Chairman of the PetroVietnam National Oil and Gas Group Board of Directors.




At meeting

Enlarged photo (JPG, 3 MB)
The meeting addressed the main issues of the bilateral cooperation in hydrocarbon development, particularly the joint activities in blocks Nos. 129–132 in the continental shelf of Vietnam. The geological and geophysical data was processed and hydrologic studies were completed at the drilling sites. The drilling of a prospecting well in block No. 129 is scheduled to start in the second half of 2015. It would be the first deep-water well offshore Vietnam with the sea depth exceeding 1,600 meters at the drilling sites.




Alexey Miller

Enlarged photo (JPG, 1 MB)



Nguyen Xuan Son

Enlarged photo (JPG, 3 MB)
The participants also paid attention to the progress with the Heads of Agreement on developing the Nagumanovskoye (Orenburg Region) and Severo-Purovskoye (Yamal-Nenets Autonomous Area) fields.

In addition, the meeting touched upon the possible acquisition of a stake in Vietnam’s Dung Quat oil refinery by Gazprom and its participation in the refinery upgrade. It was noted that the Heads of Agreement on the oil refinery stake provided Gazprom with an exclusive right to negotiate the deal.




Enlarged photo (JPG, 2 MB)
*Background*

Vietgazprom, joint operating company of Gazprom and PetroVietnam, is engaged in exploration activities in blocks No. 112, 129, 130, 131, 132 located on the continental shelf of Vietnam. In 2013 Gazprom and PetroVietnam launched commercial gas production from the Moc Tinh and Hai Thach fields of licensed blocks 05.2 and 05.3 offshore Vietnam, with recoverable gas and condensate reserves amounting to 35.9 billion cubic meters and 15.2 million tons respectively.

In 2014 Gazprom and PetroVietnam signed the Framework Agreement on terms and conditions of the joint development of the Nagumanovskoye and Severo-Purovskoye fields.

The Nagumanovskoye oil, gas and condensate field holds 5.8 billion cubic meters of proven in-place gas reserves, 1,683 thousand tons of recoverable condensate reserves and 960 thousand tons of recoverable oil reserves. The proven in-place gas reserves of the Severo-Purovskoye gas and condensate field account for 45.5 billion cubic meters, the recoverable condensate reserves – 6,826 thousand tons. Gazpromviet holds a subsurface use license for both fields (Gazprom – 51 per cent, PetroVietnam – 49 per cent).

Dung Quat, Vietnam’s only oil refinery, has an output of 6.5 million tons per year.

In late 2014 Gazprom Neft and Binh Son Refining and Petrochemical signed the long-term agreement on delivering ESPO oil to Dung Quat.

In April 2015 Gazprom Neft and PetroVietnam signed the Heads of Agreement on acquiring a stake in the oil refinery by Gazprom Neft.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Aepsilons

JS Harusame receives a warm welcome by the Philippine Military Band,




_Maraming na maraming salamat kaibigan (many thanks, kind friends)_









biendong said:


> Japan coast guard shipvisited Da Nang Vietnam recently 10 - 14/5/2016.





Excellent pictures , buddy ! It looks like the PLH 22 went to Vietnam after conducting exercises with the Philippine Coast Guard a week prior. Great to see the Japanese Coast Guard cooperating with both the Vietnamese and Filipino counterparts !

Let us increase interoperability in the name of regional stability !

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

Vietnam National Oil and Gas Group

until yesterday, rainwater and water are taken and transported from the mainland and stored in the tanks..now a seawater desalination system on Song Tu Tay Island is put in place: freshwater for our people on the remote islands, providing 18m3 of freshwater daily.


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

*Indonesia to boost stability in South China Sea region: Official*
Senin, 11 Mei 2015 21:01 WIB | 345 Views

Jakarta (ANTARA News) -- The Indonesian government will continue to boost stability in the South China Sea region through various approaches, Deputy Foreign Affairs Minister A. M. Fachir said.

Speaking at a discussion themed "Maritime Fulcrum and Foreign Policy" here on Monday, Fachir stated that Indonesia will also create stability in South China Sea regions that had continued to remain conflict-ridden.

"We will continue to work towards our common interest by adopting certain approaches. The common interest we want to achieve is stability," he remarked.

The minister pointed out that Indonesia will also try some efforts to prevent conflicts in the South China dispute area.

"Through various approaches, both international and internal workshops, Indonesia will convey that conflict is not the solution," he affirmed.

Moreover, Director of the ASEAN Cooperation of the Indonesian Foreign Affairs Ministry I Gusti Agung Wesake Puja said that the Indonesian government at the ASEAN Summit had pushed for the completion of a Code of Conduct (CoC) agreement to settle the South China Sea dispute.

"Indonesia is supporting the peace process to resolve the South China Sea dispute. It is encouraging the completion of the CoC agreement between ASEAN and China," he stated.

According to Puja, the ethical code to settle all disputes over the South China Sea should be completed and agreed upon soon to ensure stability in the region.

"During a discussion to settle the South China Sea dispute at the ASEAN Summit, it was agreed that stability should be ensured in the South China Sea by accelerating the establishment of the Code of Conduct," Puja explained.

The official added that there were several countries concerned about the land reclamation carried out by a particular country in the South China Sea.

Therefore, the Indonesian government has asked the countries involved in the dispute to refrain from taking any action.

President Joko Widodo, Puja remarked, has reiterated the importance of maintaining and increasing stability in the region because it is important for its sustainable development.(*) 

Indonesia to boost stability in South China Sea region: Official - ANTARA News


----------



## Oldman1

utp45 said:


> Oh no this is crossing the line, Japan
> 
> Are we informed in advance？



Indeed it is crossing the line. Japanese ships in Chinese waters.


----------



## 大汉奸柳传志

Political rather than territorial.

Hard to understand for an old man

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Nike

*Indonesia must reject Chinese maritime silk road offer: Sultan*
Senin, 11 Mei 2015 22:14 WIB | 396 Views




Sultan Hamengkubuwono X (FOTO ANTARA/ Feny Selly)
Surabaya, East Java (ANTARA News) - Sultan Hamengkubuwono X has appealed to President Joko Widodo to reject the Chinese governments offer to link Indonesias maritime axis with its maritime silk road.

"The Chinese maritime silk road is a logistical route from China to other countries and so if the offer is accepted Indonesia will become consumers of Chinese products forever," he said in a seminar here on Monday.

Speaking at an Indonesian Navy National Seminar 2015 carrying the theme of "Challenges and Opportunities in the Development of Five World Maritime Axis Pillars" held to mark the Navy Education Day the governor of Yogyakarta said that the Indonesian Archipelago Sea Lanes (ALKI) had so far always been the target of China, Australia and Singapore.

"If we close the ALKI to strengthen domestic logistic routes to support the World Maritime Axis program the three countries trade with the Asia Pacific region would be blocked and therefore they are offering cooperation," he said.

Sultan who spoke on a maritime culture session said the Chinese offer for cooperation in the Maritime Silk Road framework could make the Indonesian nation become consumers of their products.

"Also watch Australia who wants Papua to be independent. It is actually not for the interest of Papua but Australia only wants to open its economic routes," he said.

In view of that Sultan underlined the importance of education and leadership as well as diplomacy which is focused on sea and maritime. "The sea is related with sea resources while maritime is connected with defense and so the two must be combined," he said.

The seminar which was officially opened by Navy Chief of Starr Admiral Ade Supandi also presented other speakers including former navy chief of staff retired admiral Marsetio, former minister Sarwono Kusumaatmadja, Ir. Harun Al Rasyid Lubis M.Sc. and Dr. Arif Hava Oegroseno.

"Yes, China has conducted an aggression like in the South China Sea but we must not confront it physically. We must focus on diplomacy. The worlds decision to recognize Indonesia as an archipelago country is not gained through physical fight and blood but diplomacy. Show that Indonesia is a peace-loving country," Sarwono said. 

Sarwono, who was a former environment minister, asked the government to focus on marine tourism because the top program could improve commitment to sea, fishery, maritime human resources and others.

Admiral Ade Supandi in his opening speech emphasized the importance of improving the quality of human resources in the maritime sector as their number was still one percent of the total population.

"According to a census in 2010 total Indonesian population reached 230 million and the maritime human resource numbers only 2.3 million or one percent including the navy members totaling 70,000," he said before around 300 participants including university rectors, academicians, university students and civilian as well as military and police officials. 
_
reporting by edy m yakub
(H-YH/a014) 
(T.SYS/B/KR-BSR/A014) _

_Indonesia must reject Chinese maritime silk road offer: Sultan - ANTARA News_


----------



## 70U63

madokafc said:


> "The Chinese maritime silk road is a logistical route from China to other countries and so if the offer is accepted Indonesia will become consumers of Chinese products forever," he said in a seminar here on Monday.



So what is your view on this?
I thought this provide an opportunity for Indonesia (depend how they play to the game to their advantage).


----------



## CCP

sizes of 3 new islands compare to old islands






Zhubi island today (left 3)

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Nike

70U63 said:


> So what is your view on this?
> I thought this provide an opportunity for Indonesia (depend how they play to the game to their advantage).



my personal view here, i can't deny his (Sultan Hamengkubuwono wariness) about Chinese plan and the possibility of long term negative effects on behalf of their plan, but i think Indonesia have to make a choice regarding investment, development and unemployment in some outer islands like in Papua and Maluku and made some limited cooperation with the Chinese to handling those issues.


----------



## Viet

CCP said:


> sizes of 3 new islands compare to old islands
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zhubi island today (left 3)


nice. looks we have to acquire similar means to do massive land reclamation. that is a long game, my friend.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## CCP

Viet said:


> nice. looks we have to acquire similar means to do massive land reclamation. that is a long game, my friend.



Well, I don't think it will take more than 2 more years.


----------



## Viet

more patrol ships coming


----------



## CCP

Viet said:


> more patrol ships coming
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 220731
> 
> 
> View attachment 220732



LOL, what a huge ship. How many tons is it?

Does it have half (or 1/3) of the size of Chinese new 12,000 tons coast guard ships?






Can not wait to see next ship collision at SCS.


----------



## BoQ77

Vietnam need only 1200t to handle that 12000


----------



## CCP

BoQ77 said:


> Vietnam need only 1200t to handle that 12000



Let's wait to see.


----------



## Viet

CCP said:


> LOL, what a huge ship. How many tons is it?
> 
> Does it have half (or 1/3) of the size of Chinese new 12,000 tons coast guard ships?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can not wait to see next ship collision at SCS.


ok, that means we need to build bigger ships. that is not a fair game, nor fairplay. you are shameless.


----------



## JayMandan



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Aepsilons

JayMandan said:


>




Hahaha, too cute !


-------------------------------


*Japan, Philippines hold historic naval drills*


Two Japanese destroyers and one of the Philippines’ newest warships began historic naval exercises in the flash point South China Sea on Tuesday, showcasing a deepening alliance aimed at countering a rising China.
The daylong war games, the first bilateral naval exercises between the former World War II foes, took place less than 300 km (185 miles) from a Philippine-claimed shoal now under Chinese control.

Japan’s cooperation follows a speech last year by Prime Minister Shinzo Abe vowing to help Southeast Asia maintain freedom of navigation and overflight in the region.

The exercise followed a pact in January between Japan and the Philippines, aimed at tightening security cooperation.

Philippine authorities insisted the exercises were merely focused on building military capabilities, but security analysts said they were clearly a signal to China over bitter maritime territorial disputes.

“First, they demonstrate that China’s Pacific neighbors are beginning to balance against China,” said professor Michael Tkacik, a foreign policy expert at Stephen F. Austin State University in Texas.

“Japan, the Philippines, Vietnam, and assorted other states are threatened by China’s behavior, even as far away as India,” he added. “Thus, the Philippines and Japan are jointly making an important statement about how seriously they view China’s actions.”

China has caused deep concern regionally in recent years as it has become more aggressive in staking its claims to the South China Sea and the Japanese-controlled Senkaku Islands in the East China Sea.

Beijing insists it has sovereign rights to nearly all of the South China Sea. However, the Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia and Brunei have competing claims to parts of the sea, which is vital to the global shipping industry and is believed to contain huge deposits of fossil fuels.

In 2012, China took control of Scarborough Shoal, a rich fishing ground within the Philippines’ exclusive economic zone and more than 650 km from the nearest major Chinese landmass. Chinese coast guard vessels have since guarded the shoal and denied Filipino fishermen access, triggering a series of protests from Manila.

Although the Philippine Navy had declined to say exactly where Tuesday’s exercises took place, it said the vessels sailed into the South China Sea from the former Subic Bay U.S. naval base, which is about 270 km southeast of Scarborough Shoal.

Two Japanese destroyers and a Philippine warship participated in a maritime safety exercise, practicing the drill for unplanned encounters, known as CUES, Philippine officials said.

A Philippine Navy spokesman said the exercises were the first bilateral war games between the two nations.

“It would be naive for anyone to think this is just an ordinary joint exercise in the light of some assertive actions by China in the South China Sea,” said Wilfrido Villacorta, at the Manila-based De La Salle University.

He described this as a “natural reaction” by the Philippines after recent “provocations.”

Villacorta cited in particular China’s recent flurry of reclamation activities on reefs in the Philippine-claimed Spratly island chain, turning them into islands capable of hosting significant military outposts.

Japan was trying to build constructive ties with traditional rival China, said security expert Narushige Michishita, of Tokyo’s National Graduate Institute for Policy Studies.

“But in a low-key, but understandable, manner it’s sending a message to the Chinese leadership that ‘Even if you use force to expand your sphere of influence, there is a limit to what you can do and the countries in the region are willing to stop it.’ ”

The latest joint exercise will likely be just one more step toward closer cooperation between the Philippines and Japan, said Julius Cesar Trajano, senior analyst at Singapore’s S. Rajaratnam School of International Studies.

“Japan is trying to test the waters (to show) that it is willing to assist its partners in the region,” he said.

However, because of legal limits to the military aid it can extend, Trajano said Japanese aid will likely be in the form of training or to nonmilitary institutions like the coast guard.


Japan, Philippines hold historic naval drills | The Japan Times



JayMandan said:


>

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## soundwave1987

Is that supposed to be a problem？We'll continue to expand the artificial islands and gradually take over the islands illegally occupied like what we did in the past years. Japan & Philipine can hold up whatever they want, but do you dare to attack when we dont use forces first？If you dont, good, we will push you out by civilian ships（may be some "accident crushes"will happen and we happen to have load of large ships)\^O^/. If you do, good, we will blame you for starting a war and defend ourselves by all means, and then let the wardog unleashed(^_^)

Oh and by the way, in 2009, a tiny weak poor chinese fishboat run into the big mighty Japenese coast guard near Diaoyu Island, guess what happened?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Aepsilons

Why are these Chinese posters always interfering in areas that do not concern them.

This is a thread about Japan and the Philippines, regarding a naval exercise between the JMSDF and the Philippine Navy within Philippine Maritime Territory.

Must Chinese always interfere in areas that do not concern them? Preposterous.


----------



## Aepsilons

Please do not post anything unrelated to Japanese-Philippines Naval cooperation in this thread. 

There are hundreds of Chinese-related threads in PDF, post there. 

This thread does not concern the Chinese.


----------



## CCP

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Please do not post anything unrelated to Japanese-Philippines Naval cooperation in this thread.
> 
> There are hundreds of Chinese-related threads in PDF, post there.
> 
> This thread does not concern the Chinese.



Can you count how many "China" in your first post?

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Keel

Zero_wing said:


> Man you people are insecure



Agreed
You're right just this time even though you dont belong to them ethnically which should be unbiased this time
The Japanese and Pinoys are scared otherwise they would not have the drill
More scared more drills
The more the scarier






Ancient Chinese Art of Paper Folding

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Huan

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Please do not post anything unrelated to Japanese-Philippines Naval cooperation in this thread.
> 
> There are hundreds of Chinese-related threads in PDF, post there.
> 
> This thread does not concern the Chinese.


That is unrealistic Nihonjin, considering that the exercise is held in the *South China Sea*.


----------



## Aepsilons

Huan said:


> That is unrealistic Nihonjin, considering that the exercise is held in the *South China Sea*.




Do you know the location where our joint task force operated? 


By the northern tip of the Republic of the Philippines' most Western Most Island, the Island of Palawan. 








If you can see the town of El Nido in Palawan Island, the joint task group conducted naval exercises starting there. 


Note that it was not in the Panatag Island, or any of the islands that are in the Kalayaan Group , which is administered by the Philippine Armed Forces (and claimed by other countries).


----------



## BoQ77

PH must worry that even Palawan would be illegal occupied The enemy now build airstrip close to their Palawan.

According to ASEAN, the sea has the name Southeast Asia sea. Or simple. SEA.

According to China history book and map , they call it Jiao zhi sea. By current meaning it is "Vietnam sea"

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## biendong

There is west Philippine sea.


----------



## Speeder 2

CCP said:


> sizes of 3 new islands compare to old islands
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zhubi island today (left 3)



the 2nd photo - holy crap! what China is building? a star war robot factory?


----------



## Aepsilons

BoQ77 said:


> PH must worry that even Palawan would be illegal occupied The enemy now build airstrip close to their Palawan.
> 
> According to ASEAN, the sea has the name Southeast Asia sea. Or simple. SEA.
> 
> According to China history book and map , they call it Jiao zhi sea. By current meaning it is "Vietnam sea"




They shouldn't have to worry about that. Palawan is home to the Philippine Armed Forces' Western Command. Specifically, if I recollect, they have a forward deployed Marine Base also in Pag-Asa Island which gives them operational awareness.

Palawan has a considerable deployed forces from the Philippine Army and Philippine Marine Corp. Not to mention that there are rotation of American troops there provided through the Visiting Status Agreement, which enables rotation of US military forces (marines, army) throughout the military bases in the Philippines; the ones in Palawan are included in this rotation.

Palawan is not a minor shoal, it is a major island , with population nearing 1 million , and being so close to the major islands in the Visayas, and Southern Luzon. An invasion by any agitator state would automatically result in an immediate response from the Armed Forces of the Philippines , The United States, and Japan.


----------



## TheTruth

biendong said:


> There is west Philippine sea.



No such country called "the Philippines" existed until recently. We could call it the Moro and Cham Seas, with a North Ryukyu Sea above.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Transhumanist

Nihonjin1051 said:


> They shouldn't have to worry about that. Palawan is home to the Philippine Armed Forces' Western Command. Specifically, if I recollect, they have a forward deployed Marine Base also in Pag-Asa Island which gives them operational awareness.
> 
> Palawan has a considerable deployed forces from the Philippine Army and Philippine Marine Corp. Not to mention that there are rotation of American troops there provided through the Visiting Status Agreement, which enables rotation of US military forces (marines, army) throughout the military bases in the Philippines; the ones in Palawan are included in this rotation.
> 
> Palawan is not a minor shoal, it is a major island , with population nearing 1 million , and being so close to the major islands in the Visayas, and Southern Luzon. An invasion by any agitator state would automatically result in an immediate response from the Armed Forces of the Philippines , The United States, and Japan.



There's talk of a new base too:

*New naval base is Philippine military's top priority - armed forces chief*

The Philippine military's top priority is to build a naval base on the country's western coastline, opposite the disputed Spratly islands, although the plans have been delayed by funding bottlenecks, the Philippine armed forces chief told Reuters.

General Gregorio Catapang said U.S., Japanese and Vietnamese naval vessels would be allowed to make port calls once the facility at Oyster Bay on the Philippine island of Palawan was finished.

Developing the island paradise into a military facility could exacerbate tensions with China, which claims sovereignty over almost the entire South China Sea, including the Spratlys. The Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan also claim parts of the vital waterway.

Palawan, part of the main Philippine island chain, is about 160 km (100 miles) from the Spratlys, where China's rapid land reclamation around seven reefs is causing alarm among some Asian countries and drawing increasing criticism from Washington.

"We feel this is the number one priority because of the emerging security situation," Catapang said in an interview late on Monday at a military base in the Palawan capital, Puerto Princesa City, after taking reporters to a Philippine-held island in the Spratlys.

"As soon as we have the money, we will pour resources there," he said.

China last month offered a detailed defence of its reclamation in the Spratlys, saying the new islands would provide civilian services such as weather forecasting and search and rescue facilities that would benefit other countries.

China rebuked the Philippines on Tuesday for taking journalists to one disputed island, dismissing its occupation as "futile and illegal" in the latest war of words between the two sides.

Catapang said 800 million pesos (11.46 million pounds) was needed for the initial development of the naval facility and then 5 billion pesos to turn it into a major operating base.

While plans had been drawn up, they were stalled by a lack of funds, he said.

"There is nothing there yet, we are still constructing an access road and upgrading the water and oil depots that would service ships. There's still much work to do," he said.

Japan, which is helping Manila boost its maritime capabilities, might fund infrastructure around the base but not the facility itself, a Japanese source with knowledge of the plan said earlier this year.

Washington has asked for access to Philippine military bases in eight locations to rotate troops, aircraft and ships for training as Washington shifts more of its forces to Asia, Catapang said last month.

Security ties between the Philippines and Vietnam are also growing in light of China's assertiveness.

The Philippine navy has said it planned to base two former U.S. Coast Guard cutters at Oyster Bay, a sheltered cove within the much larger Ulugan Bay, once the facility was finished.

From New naval base is Philippine military's top priority - armed forces chief| Reuters



TheTruth said:


> No such country called "the Philippines" existed until recently. We could call it the Moro and Cham Seas, with a North Ryukyu Sea above.



And South Sudan wasn't a nation until a few years ago, what's your point? When a nation became one doesn't matter - else all of Europe would have a territorial claim to all the rest, the US would still be British, India too, life doesn't work that way. The Philippines exists just as much as South Sudan, The US, Norway, Russia or any other nation.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## TheTruth

that will detract from the Philippines' civilian development



Transhumanist said:


> And South Sudan wasn't a nation until a few years ago, what's your point? The Philippines exists just as much as South Sudan, The US, Norway, Russia or any other nation.



So why should a Sea be named after colonial upstarts, over the rightful heirs to the environs? The Moro never accepted Philippines rule. Nor did the Cham or Khmer accept Vietnamese domination. These are the people who have a legitimate historical claim.

BTW instrumental to Philippine nationhood is their constitution which puts the Spratlys strictly outside of their territorial jurisdiction.

@Nihonjin1051 don't pretend your sources weren't written specifically with China in mind. As was said before, look how many times China was mentioned in these articles.

The fact of the matter is, China is keeping the islands she has. And since China has the only legitimate claim to territories inside the 9-dash line, she is not going to drop the dispute under US-Japan pressure. I wonder what Japan thinks she's accomplishing here?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Aepsilons

Transhumanist said:


> And South Sudan wasn't a nation until a few years ago, what's your point? The Philippines exists just as much as South Sudan, The US, Norway, Russia or any other nation.








The Philippines was of such strategic value that the United States Navy, Army, Marine Corp, Air Force --- launched the largest naval invasion in human history -- ever. Just to reclaim , 'liberate' the Philippine Archipelago from the Japanese Empire. All in All, the Japanese Imperial 14th Area Army stationed some 430,000 soldiers in the defense of the Philippines ---- the United States mobilized the entire 8th Army, 6th Army ---- all in all around 1,200,000 American soldiers operated in the Philippine Campaign.

The US 8th and 6th Army destroyed the entire 14th Area Army of the Imperial Japanese Army --- with only 12,000 surviving the war; the rest were killed in action.

The Americans suffered 64,000 casualties to take the Philippines from the Japanese Empire ---- that should be the measure of their resolve in taking the Philippines.The Philippines is , clearly, of vital strategic importance to the United States. 

Japan, of all nations, knows this.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## JayMandan

The thread is about Jmsdf and PN naval drill. What the hell is wrong with you Chinese pdf? Paranoid much?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## CCP

Nihonjin1051 said:


> The Philippines was of such strategic value that the United States Navy, Army, Marine Corp, Air Force --- launched the largest naval invasion in human history -- ever. Just to reclaim , 'liberate' the Philippine Archipelago from the Japanese Empire. All in All, the Japanese Imperial 14th Area Army stationed some 430,000 soldiers in the defense of the Philippines ---- the United States mobilized the entire 8th Army, 6th Army ---- all in all around 1,200,000 American soldiers operated in the Philippine Campaign.
> 
> The US 8th and 6th Army destroyed the entire 14th Area Army of the Imperial Japanese Army --- with only 12,000 surviving the war; the rest were killed in action.
> 
> The Americans suffered 64,000 casualties to take the Philippines from the Japanese Empire ---- that should be the measure of their resolve in taking the Philippines.The Philippines is , clearly, of vital strategic importance to the United States.
> 
> Japan, of all nations, knows this.



Right, so, US do nothing to help PH at Scarborough Shoal(2012).

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TheTruth

JayMandan said:


> The thread is about Jmsdf and PN naval drill. What the hell is wrong with you Chinese pdf? Paranoid much?



Do you really think we're afraid of a country that even the Taiwanese could neutralize in months? Get your head checked. We're afraid we'll be forced to kill people like you when that's the last thing on earth that we want.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

TheTruth said:


> Do you really think we're afraid of a country that even the Taiwanese could neutralize in months? Get your head checked. We're afraid we'll be forced to kill people like you when that's the last thing on earth that we want.



get out. Jungle rule is not applied here.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Aepsilons

CCP said:


> Right, so, US do nothing to help PH at Scarborough Shoal(2012).




The Scarborough Shoal is a Philippine claimed territory as per the UNCLOS, which defines nations' EEZ. It is not technically 'core' Philippine soil, in fact, its not even an island, Its an outpouching of rocks, lol.

There are no Filipino ships, no soldiers, even civilian population living in said outpuching of rocks. Now, lets say the Philippines' military forces were attacked by an agitator state, or an invasion is to be conducted by an agitator state, then Manila's MDT with Washington would be enacted.

The point is this --- it is best for relevant states not to under estimate the American resolve. In the past, the Japanese Empire underestimated the American resolve to retake the Philippines , imagine, Japan had stationed over 430,000 soldiers of the Imperial Army in the Philippines.

American took it back. lol.

It is hard for China to understand since China has no history of any modern major naval battles or naval based invasion equivalent to the size in the Philippine Campaign. Afterall, in WWII, the Chinese navy was completely decimated by the Imperial Navy. There was no 'Chinese Navy'.

And no Chinese, British, Dutch can claim victory against the Imperial Navy; the only power to break the Imperial Navy was no other than the United States Navy. Through shear strategic visage.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## CCP

Nihonjin1051 said:


> The Scarborough Shoal is a Philippine claimed territory as per the UNCLOS, which defines nations' EEZ. It is not technically 'core' Philippine soil, in fact, its not even an island, Its an outpouching of rocks, lol.



Right, like Diaoyu island.
That must be why US just did lip service in 2013.



Nihonjin1051 said:


> It is hard for China to understand since China has no history of any modern major naval battles or naval based invasion equivalent to the size in the Philippine Campaign. Afterall, in WWII, the Chinese navy was completely decimated by the Imperial Navy. There was no 'Chinese Navy'.



You have one now. 



Nihonjin1051 said:


> And no Chinese, British, Dutch can claim victory against the Imperial Navy; the only power to break the Imperial Navy was no other than the United States Navy. Through shear strategic visage.



Since IJN exist only 77 years (1868-1945) in history.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TheTruth

Nihonjin1051 said:


> The Scarborough Shoal is a Philippine claimed territory as per the UNCLOS, which defines nations' EEZ. It is not technically 'core' Philippine soil, in fact, its not even an island, Its an outpouching of rocks, lol.
> 
> There are no Filipino ships, no soldiers, even civilian population living in said outpuching of rocks. Now, lets say the Philippines' military forces were attacked by an agitator state, or an invasion is to be conducted by an agitator state, then Manila's MDT with Washington would be enacted.
> 
> The point is this --- it is best for relevant states not to under estimate the American resolve. In the past, the Japanese Empire underestimated the American resolve to retake the Philippines , imagine, Japan had stationed over 430,000 soldiers of the Imperial Army in the Philippines.
> 
> American took it back. lol.
> 
> It is hard for China to understand since China has no history of any modern major naval battles or naval based invasion equivalent to the size in the Philippine Campaign. Afterall, in WWII, the Chinese navy was completely decimated by the Imperial Navy. There was no 'Chinese Navy'.
> 
> And no Chinese, British, Dutch can claim victory against the Imperial Navy; the only power to break the Imperial Navy was no other than the United States Navy. Through shear strategic visage.




Except the islands, per the Philippines constitution as it was written by Americans, are not Philippines territory. If Americans want to start a war that many DoD officials believe they can't win, well.. they are the land of the free. They can get their Asia-Pacific version of Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria or Ukraine. It's been over 20 years since they "won" Vietnam, so why not?

Are you bragging about defeating a heavily underfunded, corruption riddled, foreign-interfered ROC navy in WWII? You mean the same navy that rushed to deliver humanitarian aid to Japanese victims of the Kanto Earthquake? What is the point of bragging? Are you surprised that a country that has never in thousands of years wanted to subjugate the Philippines neglected the means to do so? Compared to a nation that was industrialized for only 70 years before rising to some of highest levels of savagery ever seen in history?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Aepsilons

TheTruth said:


> @Nihonjin1051 don't pretend your sources weren't written specifically with China in mind. As was said before, look how many times China was mentioned in these articles.
> 
> The fact of the matter is, China is keeping the islands she has. And since China has the only legitimate claim to territories inside the 9-dash line, she is not going to drop the dispute under US-Japan pressure. I wonder what Japan thinks she's accomplishing here?




Who said I was pretending? The article's premise is there. There may be the mention of an agitator state in the South China Seas, which is , and you can't deny this my friend, the very catalyst for the bemused increase in military arms acquisition in the region. If one were to compare this to a particular phenomena in history , in recent history that is, it would be the Balkans prior to the 1st World War where every post-liberated state once under the Ottoman Empire's rule --- was rushing towards military arms purchases. Do read the history of the Bulgarian-Romanian-Greco Wars immediately after their respective liberation from the Ottoman Empire during the late 19th century, and also in context to the rise of nationalism in the region from without and within of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Its rather similar, and I say this emphatically. 

Now, in regards to the Japanese role in the Philippines. As I have told you , in our many conversations in other threads -- and we've butted heads on this (you know this, i know this) --- Japan's involvement in the Philippines is a natural one:
a) The Philippines is home to over 1,300 Japanese businesses (the Philippines is a major offshore location for Japanese industry)
b) The Philippines is home to over 135,000 Japanese Nationals --- naturally we have an interest in the stability and growth of the Philippines as a significant number of our Citizens call the country a second home. 
c) Japanese shipping traverses trough the South China Sea as well as the Philippine Sea (Western and Eastern)


Japan's involvement with the Philippines in defense matters aims to create stability, and this exercise is ane xample of that as it is training our Filipino counterparts how to react in congruence to threat level. As well as how to direct the proper branches of the military (their military) in conducting interdiction exercises --- emphasis on the use of Philippine Coast Guard , as well as Philippine Navy.


----------



## JayMandan

TheTruth said:


> Do you really think we're afraid of a country that even the Taiwanese could neutralize in months? Get your head checked. We're afraid we'll be forced to kill people like you when that's the last thing on earth that we want.


In your dreams, boy. Now post something related to the thread not the usual 50 cent army recital.


----------



## Aepsilons

TheTruth said:


> Are you bragging about defeating a heavily underfunded, corruption riddled, foreign-interfered ROC navy in WWII? You mean the same navy that rushed to deliver humanitarian aid to Japanese victims of the Kanto Earthquake? What is the point of bragging? Are you surprised that a country that has never in thousands of years wanted to subjugate the Philippines neglected the means to do so? Compared to a nation that was industrialized for only 70 years before rising to some of highest levels of savagery ever seen in history?




I'm not bragging, I'm only citing a historical truth. In the 1st Sino Japanese War, the Beiyang Fleet was totally and completely annihilated (despite having one of the most modern warships in Asia, and Chinese naval commanders having foreign naval strategists on board advising them). In the 2nd Sino Japanese War, the Imperial Navy , since both the Chinese and Japanese states were at war, performed its duty --- unfortunately for China, this meant the eradication of all its surface combat ships. Effectively wiping out any naval threat. 

Historically speaking, and strategically as well, the Japanese have no history of losing to the Chinese in any modern naval engagement. 

Again, I'm not trying to degrade here, I am merely recanting historical truth. 


Okay, let's get back to the subject matter okay? I don't want to divert any further.


----------



## F-22Raptor

The U.S. military is considering using aircraft and Navy ships to directly contest Chinese territorial claims to a chain of rapidly expanding artificial islands, U.S. officials said, in a move that would raise the stakes in a regional showdown over who controls disputed waters in the South China Sea.

Defense Secretary Ash Carter has asked his staff to look at options that include flying Navy surveillance aircraft over the islands and sending U.S. naval ships to within 12 nautical miles of reefs that have been built up and claimed by the Chinese in an area known as the Spratly Islands.

Such moves, if approved by the White House, would be designed to send a message to Beijing that the U.S. won’t accede to Chinese territorial claims to the man-made islands in what the U.S. considers to be international waters and airspace.

The Pentagon’s calculation may be that the military planning, and any possible deployments, would increase pressure on the Chinese to make concessions over the artificial islands. But Beijing also could double down, expanding construction in defiance of the U.S. and potentially taking steps to further Chinese claims in the area.

The U.S. has said it doesn’t recognize the man-made islands as sovereign Chinese territory. Nonetheless, military officials said, the Navy has so far not sent military aircraft or ships within 12 nautical miles of the reclaimed reefs to avoid escalating tensions.

If the U.S. challenges China’s claims using ships or naval vessels and Beijing stands its ground, the result could escalate tensions in the region, with increasing pressure on both sides to flex military muscle in the disputed waters.

According to U.S. estimates, China has expanded the artificial islands in the Spratly chain to as much as 2,000 acres of land, up from 500 acres last year, according to U.S. officials. Last month, satellite imagery from defense intelligence provider IHS IHS -0.49 %  Jane’s showed China has begun building an airstrip on one of the islands, which appears to be large enough to accommodate fighter jets and surveillance aircraft.

The U.S. has used its military to challenge other Chinese claims Washington considers unfounded. In November 2013, the U.S. flew a pair of B-52 bombers over disputed islands in the East China Sea to contest an air identification zone that Beijing had declared in the area.

Officials said there was now growing momentum within the Pentagon and the White House for taking concrete steps in order to send Beijing a signal that the recent buildup in the Spratlys went too far and needed to stop.

Chinese officials dismiss complaints about the island-building, saying Beijing is entitled to undertake construction projects within its own sovereign territory. They say the facilities will be used for military and civilian purposes.

“China has indisputable sovereignty over the Nansha Islands and their adjacent waters,” said embassy spokesman Zhu Haiquan, using the Chinese name for the Spratlys. “The relevant construction, which is reasonable, justified and lawful, is well within China’s sovereignty. It does not impact or target any country, and is thus beyond reproach.”

Mr. Zhu said that Beijing hopes that “relevant parties,” a reference to the U.S. military and its regional allies, will “refrain from playing up tensions or doing anything detrimental to security and mutual trust.”

China claims almost all of the South China Sea, one of the world’s busiest shipping routes, and its efforts to enforce control of the area in recent years have caused growing concern in the U.S. and in Asia, where several nations have competing claims, including the Philippines, a U.S. ally.

U.S. military aircraft have repeatedly approached the 12-nautical-mile zone declared by China around the built up reefs. But to avoid an escalation, the planes haven’t penetrated the zone. A senior military official said the flights “have kept a distance from the islands and remained near the 12-mile mark.”

U.S. planes have flown close to the islands where the building has been taking place, prompting Chinese military officers to radio the approaching U.S. aircraft to notify the pilots that they are nearing Chinese sovereign territory. In response, U.S. pilots have told the Chinese that they are flying through international airspace.

The USS Fort Worth, a combat ship, has been operating in recent days in waters near the Spratlys. “We’re just not going within the 12 miles—yet,” a senior U.S. official said.

The military proposals haven’t been formally presented to the White House, which would have to sign off on any change in the U.S. posture. The White House declined to comment on the deliberations.

Officials said the issue is a complicated one because at least some of the areas where the Chinese have been doing construction are, in eyes of the U.S. government, legitimate islands, which would be entitled to a 12-nautical-mile zone.

The proposal under consideration would be to send Navy ships and aircraft to within 12 nautical miles of only those built-up sites that the U.S. doesn’t legally consider to be islands, officials say.

Under the U.N. Convention on the Law of the Sea, reclaimed features aren’t entitled to territorial waters if the original features are not islands recognized under the agreement, U.S. officials say. Under that interpretation, the U.S. believes it doesn’t need to honor the 12-mile zone around the built-up reefs that weren’t considered to be islands before construction there began.

Several U.S. allies in the region have been privately urging the White House to do more to challenge Chinese behavior, warning Washington that U.S. inaction in the South China Sea risked inadvertently reinforcing Beijing’s territorial claims, U.S. officials said. Some allies in the region have, in contrast, expressed concern to Washington that a change in the U.S.’s approach could inadvertently draw them into a conflict.

“It’s important that everyone in the region have a clear understanding of exactly what China is doing,” a U.S. official said. “We’ve got to get eyes on.” The U.S. has been using satellites to monitor building at the islands.

In recent months, the White House has sought to increase pressure on Beijing to halt construction on the islands through diplomatic channels, as well as by calling out the Chinese publicly in recent press briefings and government reports.

The U.S. Navy regularly conducts “freedom of navigation transits” in the region, including across the South China Sea. But the Navy has yet to receive explicit authorization from the administration to do so within 12 nautical miles of the artificial islands.

John Kerry, the U.S. secretary of state, is due in Beijing this weekend to make preparations for a visit to the U.S. in September by Chinese President Xi Jinping, who has made improving military ties with the U.S. a top priority.

A new standoff with China would add to mounting security crises facing the U.S. in other regions.

Last year, after Russia seized Ukrainian territory, the White House imposed sanctions on Moscow but so far has rebuffed Ukrainian requests for U.S. weapons. In the Middle East, Islamic State militants took over large swaths of Iraq last summer, prompting the U.S. to launch an air campaign against the group.

The U.S. has long maintained that it doesn’t take sides in the territorial disputes in the South China Sea, though it has a national interest in maintaining freedom of navigation in the area. In the last year, though, U.S. officials have stepped up its criticism of China’s efforts to enforce and justify its claims in the region.

U.S. officials say they are concerned that a decision not to send naval vessels into the zone would inadvertently help the Chinese build their own case for sovereignty in the area.

Chinese coast guard vessels routinely sail within 12 nautical miles of the Senkaku Islands, which are controlled by Tokyo but claimed by Beijing, which calls them the Diaoyu.

U.S. officials say they believe China sends vessels into the Senkaku area in the East China Sea because it wants to demonstrate to Tokyo and to others that Beijing doesn’t recognize the islands as Japanese sovereign territory.

China’s claims include territorial seas stretching out 12 nautical miles from all the Spratlys, where it controls seven reefs—all recently expanded into artificial islands. Rival claimants occupy several other islands, reefs and rocks.

Historical images from Google GOOG -1.24 %  Earth and elsewhere reveal that reclamation work at most of the Chinese held reefs began after President Xi took power in 2012.

Much of the construction began in the past year, despite protests from neighboring countries, warming military ties with Washington, and a new Chinese drive to improve relations in its periphery.

U.S. officials say they have repeatedly asked China to stop the work, to no avail.

U.S. Military Proposes Challenge to China Sea Claims - WSJ

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## CCP

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Historically speaking, and strategically as well, the Japanese have no history of losing to the Chinese in any modern naval engagement.



Since IJN existed so short.

First sea war between China and Japan happened at 1598. You know the result. thats is why you emphasise "model" a lot.



Nihonjin1051 said:


> Again, I'm not trying to degrade here, I am merely recanting historical truth.



More truth is UK(US after WW I) choosed Japan as a tool to balance China and Russia.

1st Sino Japanese War was started as IJN attack Chinese hired UK transport ship. UK kept silent.

Most of IJN's warships come from UK and UK lent 98,000,000 british pounds to Japan for the war.That is a huge money at that time.
Without support of UK, there will be not 1st Sino Japanese war.

2nd Sino Japanese War, start at 1937, and Japan was support by US until 1941/Jun.
Japan's 90% of oil is from US also steels and high technologies.

Why 1941/Jun but not 1942 or 1940? Soviet–Japanese Neutrality Pact (April 13, 1941).

Remember, UK/US support Japan to balance China and Russia but not other things.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Huan

I think this would be an opportunity for China to deploy their navy ships around the constructed islands. Also, Beijing could use this to show the domestic audience that USA is actively using its navy to contain China in plain public view.

Nevertheless, this proposed action will massively raised tensions to a whole new level between China and USA.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Aepsilons

F-22Raptor said:


> The U.S. military is considering using aircraft and Navy ships to directly contest Chinese territorial claims to a chain of rapidly expanding artificial islands, U.S. officials said, in a move that would raise the stakes in a regional showdown over who controls disputed waters in the South China Sea.
> 
> Defense Secretary Ash Carter has asked his staff to look at options that include flying Navy surveillance aircraft over the islands and sending U.S. naval ships to within 12 nautical miles of reefs that have been built up and claimed by the Chinese in an area known as the Spratly Islands.
> 
> Such moves, if approved by the White House, would be designed to send a message to Beijing that the U.S. won’t accede to Chinese territorial claims to the man-made islands in what the U.S. considers to be international waters and airspace.
> 
> The Pentagon’s calculation may be that the military planning, and any possible deployments, would increase pressure on the Chinese to make concessions over the artificial islands. But Beijing also could double down, expanding construction in defiance of the U.S. and potentially taking steps to further Chinese claims in the area.
> 
> The U.S. has said it doesn’t recognize the man-made islands as sovereign Chinese territory. Nonetheless, military officials said, the Navy has so far not sent military aircraft or ships within 12 nautical miles of the reclaimed reefs to avoid escalating tensions.
> 
> If the U.S. challenges China’s claims using ships or naval vessels and Beijing stands its ground, the result could escalate tensions in the region, with increasing pressure on both sides to flex military muscle in the disputed waters.
> 
> According to U.S. estimates, China has expanded the artificial islands in the Spratly chain to as much as 2,000 acres of land, up from 500 acres last year, according to U.S. officials. Last month, satellite imagery from defense intelligence provider IHS IHS -0.49 %  Jane’s showed China has begun building an airstrip on one of the islands, which appears to be large enough to accommodate fighter jets and surveillance aircraft.
> 
> The U.S. has used its military to challenge other Chinese claims Washington considers unfounded. In November 2013, the U.S. flew a pair of B-52 bombers over disputed islands in the East China Sea to contest an air identification zone that Beijing had declared in the area.
> 
> Officials said there was now growing momentum within the Pentagon and the White House for taking concrete steps in order to send Beijing a signal that the recent buildup in the Spratlys went too far and needed to stop.
> 
> Chinese officials dismiss complaints about the island-building, saying Beijing is entitled to undertake construction projects within its own sovereign territory. They say the facilities will be used for military and civilian purposes.
> 
> “China has indisputable sovereignty over the Nansha Islands and their adjacent waters,” said embassy spokesman Zhu Haiquan, using the Chinese name for the Spratlys. “The relevant construction, which is reasonable, justified and lawful, is well within China’s sovereignty. It does not impact or target any country, and is thus beyond reproach.”
> 
> Mr. Zhu said that Beijing hopes that “relevant parties,” a reference to the U.S. military and its regional allies, will “refrain from playing up tensions or doing anything detrimental to security and mutual trust.”
> 
> China claims almost all of the South China Sea, one of the world’s busiest shipping routes, and its efforts to enforce control of the area in recent years have caused growing concern in the U.S. and in Asia, where several nations have competing claims, including the Philippines, a U.S. ally.
> 
> U.S. military aircraft have repeatedly approached the 12-nautical-mile zone declared by China around the built up reefs. But to avoid an escalation, the planes haven’t penetrated the zone. A senior military official said the flights “have kept a distance from the islands and remained near the 12-mile mark.”
> 
> U.S. planes have flown close to the islands where the building has been taking place, prompting Chinese military officers to radio the approaching U.S. aircraft to notify the pilots that they are nearing Chinese sovereign territory. In response, U.S. pilots have told the Chinese that they are flying through international airspace.
> 
> The USS Fort Worth, a combat ship, has been operating in recent days in waters near the Spratlys. “We’re just not going within the 12 miles—yet,” a senior U.S. official said.
> 
> The military proposals haven’t been formally presented to the White House, which would have to sign off on any change in the U.S. posture. The White House declined to comment on the deliberations.
> 
> Officials said the issue is a complicated one because at least some of the areas where the Chinese have been doing construction are, in eyes of the U.S. government, legitimate islands, which would be entitled to a 12-nautical-mile zone.
> 
> The proposal under consideration would be to send Navy ships and aircraft to within 12 nautical miles of only those built-up sites that the U.S. doesn’t legally consider to be islands, officials say.
> 
> Under the U.N. Convention on the Law of the Sea, reclaimed features aren’t entitled to territorial waters if the original features are not islands recognized under the agreement, U.S. officials say. Under that interpretation, the U.S. believes it doesn’t need to honor the 12-mile zone around the built-up reefs that weren’t considered to be islands before construction there began.
> 
> Several U.S. allies in the region have been privately urging the White House to do more to challenge Chinese behavior, warning Washington that U.S. inaction in the South China Sea risked inadvertently reinforcing Beijing’s territorial claims, U.S. officials said. Some allies in the region have, in contrast, expressed concern to Washington that a change in the U.S.’s approach could inadvertently draw them into a conflict.
> 
> “It’s important that everyone in the region have a clear understanding of exactly what China is doing,” a U.S. official said. “We’ve got to get eyes on.” The U.S. has been using satellites to monitor building at the islands.
> 
> In recent months, the White House has sought to increase pressure on Beijing to halt construction on the islands through diplomatic channels, as well as by calling out the Chinese publicly in recent press briefings and government reports.
> 
> The U.S. Navy regularly conducts “freedom of navigation transits” in the region, including across the South China Sea. But the Navy has yet to receive explicit authorization from the administration to do so within 12 nautical miles of the artificial islands.
> 
> John Kerry, the U.S. secretary of state, is due in Beijing this weekend to make preparations for a visit to the U.S. in September by Chinese President Xi Jinping, who has made improving military ties with the U.S. a top priority.
> 
> A new standoff with China would add to mounting security crises facing the U.S. in other regions.
> 
> Last year, after Russia seized Ukrainian territory, the White House imposed sanctions on Moscow but so far has rebuffed Ukrainian requests for U.S. weapons. In the Middle East, Islamic State militants took over large swaths of Iraq last summer, prompting the U.S. to launch an air campaign against the group.
> 
> The U.S. has long maintained that it doesn’t take sides in the territorial disputes in the South China Sea, though it has a national interest in maintaining freedom of navigation in the area. In the last year, though, U.S. officials have stepped up its criticism of China’s efforts to enforce and justify its claims in the region.
> 
> U.S. officials say they are concerned that a decision not to send naval vessels into the zone would inadvertently help the Chinese build their own case for sovereignty in the area.
> 
> Chinese coast guard vessels routinely sail within 12 nautical miles of the Senkaku Islands, which are controlled by Tokyo but claimed by Beijing, which calls them the Diaoyu.
> 
> U.S. officials say they believe China sends vessels into the Senkaku area in the East China Sea because it wants to demonstrate to Tokyo and to others that Beijing doesn’t recognize the islands as Japanese sovereign territory.
> 
> China’s claims include territorial seas stretching out 12 nautical miles from all the Spratlys, where it controls seven reefs—all recently expanded into artificial islands. Rival claimants occupy several other islands, reefs and rocks.
> 
> Historical images from Google GOOG -1.24 %  Earth and elsewhere reveal that reclamation work at most of the Chinese held reefs began after President Xi took power in 2012.
> 
> Much of the construction began in the past year, despite protests from neighboring countries, warming military ties with Washington, and a new Chinese drive to improve relations in its periphery.
> 
> U.S. officials say they have repeatedly asked China to stop the work, to no avail.
> 
> U.S. Military Proposes Challenge to China Sea Claims - WSJ





The best solution to this is to draw out our naval forces. In fact, the Japanese and American naval and air forces are doing just this in regards to spreading our forces through the Western Pacific. American Forces directing forces to Guam, Tinian Island, and the Northern Marianas, with the Japanese deploying more forces into the Southern Islands such as Yonaguni Island, Miyako Island and Ishigaki Island. 


Now with the goal in establishing a Japanese base in the Philippines --- we will draw out our interests. 



Huan said:


> I think this would be an opportunity for China to deploy their navy ships around the constructed islands. Also, Beijing could use this to show the domestic audience to support a narrative of USA actively using its navy to contain China.
> 
> Nevertheless, this proposed action will massively raised tensions to a whole new level between China and USA.




lol, you think it hasn't already begun?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Huan

Nihonjin1051 said:


> lol, you think it hasn't already begun?


Not in plain sight, but now I see Washington is no longer hiding its real ulterior motives about China nor is it really neutral about the maritime disputes from China and the other claimants. USA is really taking on all sides against China.


----------



## TheTruth

JayMandan said:


> In your dreams, boy. Now post something related to the thread not the usual 50 cent army recital.



Lots of Filipinas in Taiwan who will do all sorts of things for 50 cents, so you'd best watch your mouth, "boy".



Nihonjin1051 said:


> I'm not bragging, I'm only citing a historical truth. In the 1st Sino Japanese War, the Beiyang Fleet was totally and completely annihilated (despite having one of the most modern warships in Asia, and Chinese naval commanders having foreign naval strategists on board advising them). In the 2nd Sino Japanese War, the Imperial Navy , since both the Chinese and Japanese states were at war, performed its duty --- unfortunately for China, this meant the eradication of all its surface combat ships. Effectively wiping out any naval threat.
> 
> Historically speaking, and strategically as well, the Japanese have no history of losing to the Chinese in any modern naval engagement.
> 
> Again, I'm not trying to degrade here, I am merely recanting historical truth.



There are lots of "historical truths" you can go over. Not sure if anyone in Japan realizes this, but the PRC is not late Qing China. I'm guessing the idiots that charged the IJN with the Beiyang Fleet thought the IJN was like Hideyoshi's joke of a navy too.

Sorry, I like history too much to see it be misused as a political prop

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## CCP

Huan said:


> Not in plain sight, but now I see Washington is no longer hiding its real ulterior motives about China nor its official neutrality about the maritime disputes from China. USA is really taking on sides against China.



Well, I don't think US can win a conventional or nuclear war against China in Asia area.


----------



## TaiShang

utp45 said:


> Nervermind，China was informed
> We just dont want the Pinoys getting any ideas. Every time after a military exercise they feel tough for a few weeks.



LOL.


----------



## TheTruth

JayMandan said:


> And there are taiwanese fishermen in our waters willing to take bullets for a few shells. What did you do? Cry like a bítch, punk.
> 
> I'm sorry nihonjinsan, the mods are ignoring these trolls.



Actually what Taiwan did was sail its warships down to the Philippines. Your American fathers slapped you in the face, and your lawmakers got on their knees and begged for Taiwan's economic support after sanctions were threatened. Then you apologized several times and agreed to pay compensation, after several coast guards admitted that their colleagues committed first degree murder.

That's how international law works, monkey boy. I'm not sure if you know this, but "overlapping EEZ" doesn't mean you get to murder anyone you like in the area. Believe me, we could have annihilated you at any time in the past 500 years. And you would be licking our feet today.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Aepsilons

*Japanese Maritime Self Defense Force + Philippine Navy Joint Exercise *



Thanks to the JMSDF for the photo sharing, and also Philippine Navy,




























































@JayMandan @Zero_wing @Cossack25A1 !

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TaiShang

TheTruth said:


> Actually what Taiwan did was sail its warships down to the Philippines. Your American fathers slapped you in the face, and your lawmakers got on their knees and begged for Taiwan's economic support after sanctions were threatened. Then you apologized several times and agreed to pay compensation, after several coast guards admitted that their colleagues committed first degree murder.
> 
> That's how international law works, monkey boy. I'm not sure if you know this, but "overlapping EEZ" doesn't mean you get to murder anyone you like in the area. Believe me, we could have annihilated you at any time in the past 500 years. And you would be licking our feet today.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Aepsilons

Huan said:


> Not in plain sight, but now I see Washington is no longer hiding its real ulterior motives about China nor is it really neutral about the maritime disputes from China and the other claimants. USA is really taking on all sides against China.



How do you feel about it, as a Chinese-American ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Aepsilons

JayMandan said:


> And there are taiwanese fishermen in our waters willing to take bullets for a few shells. What did you do? Cry like a bítch, punk.
> 
> I'm sorry nihonjinsan, the mods are ignoring these trolls.




Don't mind it, let's focus on our two navies' joint exercises.


Seeing these pictures , btw, is a proud moment for me.


This is a proud era for both our nations' navies.


Let me endorse to you, bai, the anthem of the JMSDF, --- *軍艦行進曲*-- Gunkan (Warship) March


----------



## TheTruth

Nihonjin1051 said:


> The best solution to this is to draw out our naval forces. In fact, the Japanese and American naval and air forces
> 
> Now with the goal in establishing a Japanese base in the Philippines --- we will draw out our interests.



So who mentioned Japan in this thread, at all? 

Are you admitting that Japan's foreign policy is dictated by Washington?

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Beast

Nihonjin1051 said:


> The best solution to this is to draw out our naval forces. In fact, the Japanese and American naval and air forces are doing just this in regards to spreading our forces through the Western Pacific. American Forces directing forces to Guam, Tinian Island, and the Northern Marianas, with the Japanese deploying more forces into the Southern Islands such as Yonaguni Island, Miyako Island and Ishigaki Island.
> 
> 
> Now with the goal in establishing a Japanese base in the Philippines --- we will draw out our interests.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lol, you think it hasn't already begun?


All the while there is no Chinese warship involved in SCS confrontation. CMA ship only. If US send a aegis destroyer to confront CMA ship. That will give a big message of US bully. If US send US coast guard to confront China, that will be even more ridiculous? What is a US coast guard exercising duties in other territories?

There is a massive reason why China has build large number of CMA ship including some giant size like the 12000tons cutter. First w/o using legiment warship. It will avoid lots of diplomatic confrontation and avoid escalate of matters to violent naval warfare. While at the same time our 12000tons cutter can take on aegis on bumping confrontation 

Anyway, we learn this trick from the Japanese

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

> US military proposes challenge to China sea claims


 
Our reefs reclamation are "faits accompli", if US want more Challenge, we will declare the ADIZ over SCS...and let the fun begin.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Beast

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Our reefs reclamation are "faits accompli", if US want more Challenge, we will declare the ADIZ over SCS...and let the fun begin.


It's all talk from their general but never materialise. It's all decision by US president not some hot head few stars

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Steakhouse

What US gonna do? Are the US navy will bomb those island when China won't stop construction with their land reclamation project? nothing will stop China from their reclamation island project.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## CCP

TheTruth said:


> So who mentioned Japan in this thread, at all?
> 
> Are you admitting that Japan's foreign policy is dictated by Washington?



Must be...


----------



## TheTruth

Since you went back 100 years to disparage the Chinese navy (i.e. the Qing and ROC navies), can you tell us about any other "proud eras" of the Philippines navy?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Huan

Nihonjin1051 said:


> How do you feel about it, as a Chinese-American ?


Actually, Vietnamese-Chinese-American, but my family is officially recognized as Vietnamese, I am actually mixed. But I feel sadden by this reckless decision. USA has alot to gain in cooperating with China and understanding its core interests and helping to build up the world together, but instead adopted this confrontational path with China. And we are already having our hands full trying to deal with ISIS, Syria, Iran, North Korea, and Russia........................

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Aepsilons

Beast said:


> Anyway, we learn this trick from the Japanese



I'm assuming you're alluding to Japan Coast Guards' 9,300+ tonnes ships, of the Shikishima Class ?


----------



## KAL-EL

CCP said:


> Well, I don't think US can win a conventional or nuclear war against China in Asia area.



lol so the US would lose a nuclear war to china, I guess China has a giant invisible indestructible force shield surrounding the entire country no one knows about. The US massive land & sea second strike capability would all of a sudden not exist either.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Steakhouse

US can't miltary intimidate China, US try to bluff China to stop construction on the reclamation island becuase these island when fully equip with military installment can pose serious threat to US navy then US military will be diminish in the SCS

China is not Iran can be dictate by US military

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## CCP

KAL-EL said:


> lol so the US would lose a nuclear war to china, I guess China has a giant invisible indestructible force shield surrounding the entire country no one knows about. The US second strike capability would all of a sudden not exist either.


Well, I mean there will be no winner for both US and China in a nuclear war.
Basically, I don't think it a option for bot countries.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zero_wing

Keel said:


> Agreed
> You're right just this time even though you dont belong to them ethnically which should be unbiased this time
> The Japanese and Pinoys are scared otherwise they would not have the drill
> More scared more drills
> The more the scarier
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ancient Chinese Art of Paper Folding



Again be civil insulting me this p word is like tell a black man the n word we are the only people who can use that word



TheTruth said:


> Ignored until you go to Retard Reform School and learn how to use the following: periods, capitalization, commas.
> 
> This is what all your posts look like:
> 
> wow ic nal barely understandwhat you're writing you ashole asshol cicom NAZI azzhole you so dumb you dumb philipine good we good you know manny pacquiao macaroni bugubaga ASSHOLE



Seriously you are one f up dude!


----------



## KAL-EL

CCP said:


> Well, I mean there will be no winner for both US and China in a nuclear war.



I agree 100% There would be no winner. Neither of our countries is interested in committing national suicide anytime soon.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Steakhouse

Why spam this thread with Japan coastguard ship?


----------



## Cossack25A1

If BuddhaPalm, Beidou2020 or other extremist Chinese PDF member made posts here, this thread will be very "colorful"

But I guess the reason Chinese PDF members posts in this thread with the intent to derail the topic is, well, you guys know that the CCP will do everything to twist the story and feed lies to their people... or they are just insecure.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Huan

Steakhouse said:


> US can't miltary intimidate China, US try to bluff China to stop construction on the reclamation island becuase these island when fully equip with military installment can pose serious threat to US navy then US military will be diminish in the SCS
> 
> China is not Iran can be dictate by US military


Indeed *Steakhouse*, dealing with China is a whole different ballgame than dealing with Iran. USA has to be very careful about this. This is not a walk in the park that Washington should take lightly. It would be extremely reckless for us to do so.


----------



## Aepsilons

Cossack25A1 said:


> If BuddhaPalm, Beidou2020 or other extremist Chinese PDF member made posts here, this thread will be very "colorful"
> 
> But I guess the reason Chinese PDF members posts in this thread with the intent to derail the topic is, well, you guys know that the CCP will do everything to twist the story and feed lies to their people... or they are just insecure.




Just don't mind them. 

Can you post more pictures ?


----------



## Steakhouse

Huan said:


> Indeed *Steakhouse*, dealing with China is a whole different ballgame than dealing with Iran. USA has to be very careful about this. This is not a walk in the park that Washington should take lightly. This would be extremely reckless for us.


Other than US decide to fight a war with China over these reclamation island, intimidation don't work on china

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## CCP

Cossack25A1 said:


> If BuddhaPalm, Beidou2020 or other extremist Chinese PDF member made posts here, this thread will be very "colorful"
> 
> But I guess the reason Chinese PDF members posts in this thread with the intent to derail the topic is, well, you guys know that the CCP will do everything to twist the story and feed lies to their people... or they are just insecure.



Well, I think PH do not have those insecure feeling. 
Since you have a powerful Navy and your allies will fight to death for you.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Cossack25A1

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Just don't mind them.
> 
> Can you post more pictures ?



Sadly I have no picture 



CCP said:


> Well, I think PH do not have those insecure feeling.
> Since you have a powerful Navy and your allies will fight to death for you.



Why post here? 

There are tons of threads in this forum that basically says "China stronk!" yet your lot go to this thread to either trash-talk, threaten with fictional nuclear strike or basically post "China stronk!"

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

land reclamation is less meaning if everyone could freely pass by sea and air


----------



## Gufi

The American foreign policy has been reactionary for too long now and there is less mediation and back channel agreements and more futile attempts at trying to project power. The loss of face in front of the GCC, the loss of practical success in this issue (Islands etc), and resistance to both foreign policy shifts. ie Iran and the Pacific trade pact has shown a rudderless ship with no real plan. Even managing to alienate Russia with no tangible results. @Nihonjin1051 how would u judge this step and US policy in general??

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## cirr

*CCG 46104* sea trials：


----------



## CCP

Cossack25A1 said:


> There are tons of threads in this forum that basically says "China stronk!" yet your lot go to this thread to either trash-talk, threaten with fictional nuclear strike or basically post "China stronk!"



You should give up the dream that China will nuke PH at some point of time.....

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## 21stCentury

KAL-EL said:


> lol so the US would lose a nuclear war to china, I guess China has a giant invisible indestructible force shield surrounding the entire country no one knows about. The US massive land & sea second strike capability would all of a sudden not exist either.



So you are considering United States to escalate all out nuclear war with China over South China Sea? In that case, we also have massive 2nd strike nuclear capability for retaliation or even 1st strike if the threat is high enough level. But if talking about conventional warfare, outside of Asia, the United States military will dominate, but inside Asia against China, the USA is toast. This is reality.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

F-22Raptor said:


> U.S. planes have flown close to the islands where the building has been taking place, prompting Chinese military officers to radio the approaching U.S. aircraft to notify the pilots that they are nearing Chinese sovereign territory. *In response, U.S. pilots have told the Chinese that they are flying through international airspace.*
> The USS Fort Worth, a combat ship, has been operating in recent days in waters near the Spratlys. “We’re just not going within the 12 miles—yet,” a senior U.S. official said.


----------



## Cossack25A1

CCP said:


> You should give up the dream that China will nuke PH at some point of time.....



It isn't my head nor in my wildest dreams.

I guess you are turning a blind eye to BuddhaPalm's posts here, seeing that a Chinese must not sell out his Chinese comrade.


----------



## TheTruth

Zero_wing said:


> Why post here?
> 
> There are tons of threads in this forum that basically says "China stronk!" yet your lot go to this thread to either trash-talk, threaten with fictional nuclear strike or basically post "China stronk!"



NO ONE in China says China is strong. They're strong enough to give aggressors like America a bloody lip, that's all that's needed. If China had that kind of slave mentality it'd be a mess like certain countries. Unlike most countries China doesn't engage in development as a dick-measuring contest.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Aepsilons

Gufi said:


> The American foreign policy has been reactionary for too long now and there is less mediation and back channel agreements and more futile attempts at trying to project power. The loss of face in front of the GCC, the loss of practical success in this issue (Islands etc), and resistance to both foreign policy shifts. ie Iran and the Pacific trade pact has shown a rudderless ship with no real plan. Even managing to alienate Russia with no tangible results. @Nihonjin1051 how would u judge this step and US policy in general??



I think that the American members are more qualified to answer this , my friend, so let me invite the American members who have actual military backgrounds to share their conjectures @SvenSvensonov @gambit @jhungary . 

For me, I would say that there are few countries in the world , right now, who have such a broad span of national interest that extends from the Atlantic to the Pacific as the United States. And a restructure of US priority is / has been happening these past 5 years. To us, what may seem as blunders or failure in strategic steps, I would conjecture that the United States Armed Forces have a deeper reason for the things they've done, or for implementation of new policies --- reasons that are known to them and not to us in the general public.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## BoQ77

F-22Raptor said:


> U.S. military aircraft have repeatedly approached the 12-nautical-mile zone declared by China around the built up reefs.



It already happened.

USS Fort Worth recent port call in Da Nang, Singapore,

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Oldman1

utp45 said:


> Political rather than territorial.
> 
> Hard to understand for an old man



Its okay to be mad when you have Japanese ships in Chinese waters. Not to mention those Chinese islands that the Japanese occupied which is what was it they called? SENKAKU Islands they said? Man thats a big middle finger there to China.


----------



## Cossack25A1

Yet your (TheTruth) posts indicates that China is strong in others' interpretation.

Also, if this news is not much of a threat to China, why bother posting here.

And lastly, why use Zero_Wing to quote a comment I posted here?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Providence

China will never go to litigation route to claim the territories because it knows that a hard slap is what it will get in return for registering frivolous claims !

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TheTruth

Oldman1 said:


> Its okay to be mad when you have Japanese ships in Chinese waters. Not to mention those Chinese islands that the Japanese occupied which is what was it they called? SENKAKU Islands they said? Man thats a big middle finger there to China.



Man that must suck, almost as much as not being able to get your shriveled dick up.


----------



## Aepsilons

BoQ77 said:


> It already happened.
> 
> USS Fort Worth recent port call in Da Nang, Singapore,




It is impossible to deter the ambitions of a global power such as the US Navy. I think it is important to stress that many people here fail to understand the shear power that is within the United States Navy.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Oldman1

TheTruth said:


> Man that must suck, almost as much as not being able to get your shriveled dick up when you think about your dead wife.



You sound mad for some reason. Its okay buddy.


----------



## TheTruth

Cossack25A1 said:


> Yet your (TheTruth) posts indicates that China is strong in others' interpretation.
> 
> Also, if this news is not much of a threat to China, why bother posting here.
> 
> And lastly, why use Zero_Wing to quote a comment I posted here?



Do you actually think China wants to get put in a situation where it must choose between inflicting casualties on foreign nations and having its national borders violated? China doesn't fear defeat. We all fear being forced to kill Filipinos.

I apologize for misattributing you to Zero_Wing, the single worst thing I've ever said on these forums. He is like the AIDS of the internet and my post prob got infected by his butt blood.



Oldman1 said:


> You sound mad for some reason. Its okay buddy.



Nah just reminding you that you should enjoy life instead of worrying about China's islands. They will be nice and developed! Hope the thought gives you comfort.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Oldman1

Steakhouse said:


> Other than US decide to fight a war with China over these reclamation island, intimidation don't work on china



China's intention to reclaim all of South China Sea by building up artificial islands is not going to stop the U.S. from sending warships and planes no matter what.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## BoQ77

SOUTH CHINA SEA (May 11, 2015) The littoral combat ship USS Fort Worth (LCS 3) conducts patrols in international waters of the South China Sea near the Spratly Islands.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Oldman1

TheTruth said:


> Nah just reminding you that you should enjoy life instead of worrying about China's islands. They will be nice and developed! Hope the thought gives you comfort.



You don't need to remind me anything. Remember that in this forum we can express what we want. Hope that gives you comfort.


----------



## Aepsilons

Oldman1 said:


> China's intention to reclaim all of South China Sea by building up artificial islands is not going to stop the U.S. from sending warships and planes no matter what.




Correct.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TheTruth

Oldman1 said:


> You don't need to remind me anything. Remember that in this forum we can express what we want. Hope that gives you comfort.



Damn but what really must have been a middle finger is America failing miserably in Iraq and Afghanistan, spending trillions and seeing thousands of its fighters die only to help ISIS. Another middle finger would be China mopping up diplomatically in both region. There are some more but I'm out of middle fingers.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## 21stCentury

Steakhouse said:


> Other than US decide to fight a war with China over these reclamation island, intimidation don't work on china



Correct.

China is not going to be intimated by anyone. History and time is on our side and we do what we have to do to defend our territory and interests. 

If the democracy regime in Washington wants to escalate tension in our own backyard by sending their warships to our disputes with our neighbors, that's their choice. We'll just bring in our big guns and see who blinks first.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## KAL-EL

Nihonjin1051 said:


> It is impossible to deter the ambitions of a global power such as the US Navy. *I think it is important to stress that many people here fail to understand the shear power that is within the United States Navy*.




'here' = the usual hyper-nationalists

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## XenoEnsi-14

My military is going full retard...


----------



## TheTruth

Obama should draw some red lines.

@Nihonjin1051 @Oldman1

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Oldman1

TheTruth said:


> Damn but what really must have been a middle finger is America failing miserably in Iraq and Afghanistan, spending trillions and seeing thousands of its fighters die only to help ISIS. Another middle finger would be China mopping up diplomatically in both region. There are some more but I'm out of middle fingers.



Hey its okay to be mad when you have Japanese ships training in Chinese waters and still occupied Chinese islands and rename it Senkaku. I understand that feeling. I would too.


----------



## Aepsilons

KAL-EL said:


> 'here' = the usual hyper-nationalists





LOL


----------



## TheTruth

Oldman1 said:


> Hey its okay to be mad when you have Japanese ships training in Chinese waters and still occupied Chinese islands and rename it Senkaku. I understand that feeling. I would too.



China was so mad they didn't give a shit about it for 40 years. Hey its okay to be mad when tens of thousands of whiteboys have died for nothing in 'Nam, Korea, Iraq, Afghanistan. At least when they're shipped off to the South China Sea they'll know they'll be dying for nothing beforehand, lol.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## soundwave1987

My former post somehow is missing, weird. Any way I'm sorry to bother Nihonjin and others in a thread "concern not" to China, and I say it again next time our aircraft patroling along ECS and our navy exercising in West Pacific ESPECIALLY passing through the Miyako strait, pls feel comfortable, after all it's NOT yours to concern

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Oldman1

TheTruth said:


> China was so mad they didn't give a shit about it for 40 years. Hey its okay to be mad when tens of thousands of whiteboys have died for nothing in 'Nam, Korea, Iraq, Afghanistan. At least when they're shipped off to the South China Sea they'll know they'll be dying for nothing beforehand, lol.



Of course China is mad and still mad after all now you want to reclaim the Senkaku Islands after 40 years obviously. China hasn't hide their intentions.


----------



## KAL-EL

21stCentury said:


> So you are considering United States to escalate all out nuclear war with China over South China Sea? In that case, we also have massive 2nd strike nuclear capability for retaliation or even 1st strike if the threat is high enough level. But if talking about conventional warfare, outside of Asia, the United States military will dominate, but inside Asia against China, the USA is toast. This is reality.



I considered no such thing Nor did I say as much. There will be no nuclear war over the SCS. Any *rational and logical person *knows this. No rational nation is interested in committing national suicide.

If you had also read my later response to the same individual, you would have seen me say there would be no winner in an all out nuclear war.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TheTruth

Oldman1 said:


> Of course China is mad and still mad after all now you want to reclaim the Senkaku Islands after 40 years obviously. China hasn't hide their intentions.



China is just sucking up all the gas and oil under it, and pretending they're mad so Japan has to give the ROC fishing concessions.

America has been a little bitch in Asia ever since they got stomped in Korea and Nam though.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## China 4 Ever in My heart

Nihonjin1051 said:


> It is impossible to deter the ambitions of a global power such as the US Navy. I think it is important to stress that many people here fail to understand the shear power that is within the United States Navy.


Please my Nippon friend.why do u cheerleaders usa? U now, China have never invade your country. I truly believe that China are doing some "nasty" things just to make sure that all East asia buy a hell lot of army gear so that one day when all East Asia countries have enough firepower to kick usa out of East asia. Why will China invade ex Philippi? Or Vietnanm? I believe China is building airstrip on the disputed reef because if she don't , I can assure u that Vietnanm will give the reef to the yanks so the can build the airstrip and have enclosure China moore. So Japan friend help China kick out the yanks so both China and Japan and the rest of East Asia controls our backyard

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Steakhouse

Nothing will happen in SCS, China will continue their construction by next year these island will be complete and ready for the dual civilian and military use

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## XenoEnsi-14

Gufi said:


> how would u judge this step and US policy in general??


We should give the SCS to China on a golden platter with a Honey Pot.


----------



## Oldman1

TheTruth said:


> China is just sucking up all the gas and oil under it, and pretending they're mad so Japan has to give the ROC fishing concessions.
> 
> America has been a little bitch in Asia ever since they got stomped in Korea and Nam though.



Its okay buddy, don't worry. America will stay in Asia a little bit longer so you don't have to voice your concerns.


----------



## Pangu

Steakhouse said:


> Nothing will happen in SCS, China will continue their construction by next year these island will be complete and ready for the dual civilian and military use



Yes. The current course of action will remain such, nothing can change this.


----------



## KAL-EL

@Nihonjin1051

Not 100% sure.. but I think there might be a multiple ID user in this thread.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Steakhouse

Pangu said:


> Yes. The current course of action will remain such, nothing can change this.


What will it change? China already over 60 percent complete with their reclamation island, other than an actual war, these island will be complete by next year.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zero_wing

TheTruth said:


> NO ONE in China says China is strong. They're strong enough to give aggressors like America a bloody lip, that's all that's needed. If China had that kind of slave mentality it'd be a mess like certain countries. Unlike most countries China doesn't engage in development as a dick-measuring contest.



Really care to expalin to us why china is doing everything right now which you say that only US does? hypocrisy is b@#ch is it? listen you troll the more you post here the more you look pathetic so stop wasting time and get some help for your racist problem.



TheTruth said:


> Do you actually think China wants to get put in a situation where it must choose between inflicting casualties on foreign nations and having its national borders violated? China doesn't fear defeat. We all fear being forced to kill Filipinos.
> 
> I apologize for misattributing you to Zero_Wing, the single worst thing I've ever said on these forums. He is like the AIDS of the internet and my post prob got infected by his butt blood.
> 
> 
> 
> Nah just reminding you that you should enjoy life instead of worrying about China's islands. They will be nice and developed! Hope the thought gives you comfort.



Wow thank you for thinking highly of me you sorry excuse of human being and racist bigot


----------



## F-22Raptor

Oldman1 said:


> China's intention to reclaim all of South China Sea by building up artificial islands is not going to stop the U.S. from sending warships and planes no matter what.



Exactly, this is ultimately a message to the Chinese that they won't be able to impede US ships and aircraft from traversing the SCS.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

KAL-EL said:


> lol so the US would lose a nuclear war to china, I guess China has a giant invisible indestructible force shield surrounding the entire country no one knows about. The US massive land & sea second strike capability would all of a sudden not exist either.


In a nuclear war both are gonna lose.

Patriots or HQ's won't really matter once a shitload of ICBM start flying.


----------



## sicsheep

1R0N M4N XL said:


> its not china that we're scared of ! .. it's russia nuclear arsenal that we are scared of. even russia knows we can wipe out china in 1 hour in a nuclear exchange.
> 
> *Russian Expert: PLA could be defeated in an hour in nuclear war with US*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> anyway.. there will be no winners in a nuclear exchange because it will literally change the planet's atmosphere.



even this is true, one hour is too long, it takes us about 15 mins for launch prep on all solid fueled ICBM like DF-31 and DF-41 during drills, and flight time to USWC (where i live lol) is around 25 mins



Oldman1 said:


> China's intention to reclaim all of South China Sea by building up artificial islands is not going to stop the U.S. from sending warships and planes no matter what.



US Navy is in SCS now, but no balls to do anything while we build our islands, talk is cheap. warships is just a show piece if you got no balls to pull the trigger.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Oldman1 said:


> China's intention to reclaim all of South China Sea by building up artificial islands is not going to stop the U.S. from sending warships and planes no matter what.



The question is why will US gain? THE Chinese won't stop reclaiming islands .. And the US won't risk a military confrontation . Instea you will make more enemies (than you already have in the east..like Russia,Iran etx)..

This whole ex is futile!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zero_wing

you poeple must be crazy or high who will live through nuke war?


----------



## Oldman1

sicsheep said:


> US Navy is in SCS now, but no balls to do anything while our build islands, talk is cheap. warships is just a show piece if you got no balls to pull the trigger.



You don't have the balls to stop American warships and planes traversing in the waters and as you already stated already done and that China still claims the whole entire SCS no matter how many islands you made. That is the purpose and pointed out in the first place in the op.



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> The question is why will US gain? THE Chinese won't stop reclaiming islands .. And the US won't risk a military confrontation . Instea you will make more enemies (than you already have in the east..like Russia,Iran etx)..
> 
> This whole ex is futile!



To show that China doesn't own all of SCS. Because if they did, they would not allow American ships or any other foreign vessels operating in there.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Nityam

Finally US shows some balls. Now let us see if they actually do it.


----------



## 21stCentury

Steakhouse said:


> Nothing will happen in SCS, China will continue their construction by next year these island will be complete and ready for the dual civilian and military use



Rightly so.

We are not backing down, not even going to give an inch. And no one will be making us do anything against our will and interests.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## F-22Raptor

Oldman1 said:


> You don't have the balls to stop American warships and planes traversing in the waters and as you already stated already done and that China still claims the whole entire SCS no matter how many islands you made. That is the purpose and pointed out in the first place in the op.
> 
> 
> 
> To show that China doesn't own all of SCS. Because if they did, they would not allow American ships or any other foreign vessels operating in there.



As it stated in the article, the Chinese contacted our aircraft and claimed the area and essentially the entire SCS as their "sovereign territory", and we basically gave them the middle finger. China will not stop us from traversing the SCS.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Aepsilons

KAL-EL said:


> @Nihonjin1051
> 
> Not 100% sure.. but I think there might be a multiple ID user in this thread.




I've noticed that. Perhaps we can have the Moderation Team take a look?


----------



## Steakhouse

Oldman1 said:


> You don't have the balls to stop American warships and planes traversing in the waters and as you already stated already done and that China still claims the whole entire SCS no matter how many islands you made. That is the purpose and pointed out in the first place in the op.
> 
> 
> 
> To show that China doesn't own all of SCS. Because if they did, they would not allow American ships or any other foreign vessels operating in there.


These island can be dual use, in war time these island can launch fighter jet to ensure China won't cede the air superiority to the the U.S. navy in the SCS, these island can be China naval outpost to engage any hostile navy in SCS, China fully understand the strategic important of these island for any nation threaten the existence of them. China will defense these key assets with their military force.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Oldman1

TheTruth said:


> Guess those "American ships and planes" just let China have the Scarborough Shoal, like the punk bitches they are.
> 
> 
> 
> By skirting around territorial waters?



Hey, the benefits from that is the Filipinos decided to invite the U.S. back in after they kicked the U.S. out.


----------



## TheTruth

Oldman1 said:


> Hey, the benefits from that is the Filipinos decided to invite the U.S. back in after they kicked the U.S. out.



Guess after getting your pink asses handed to you in the Middle East your boys need a vacation. Lets hope they don't do too many drugs or kill too many of the locals.

Please tell me how ISIS was actually an American victory. I'm waiting for it.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Oldman1

Steakhouse said:


> These island can be dual use, in war time these island can launch fighter jet to ensure China won't cede the air superiority to the the U.S. navy in the SCS, these island can be China naval outpost to engage any hostile navy in SCS, China fully understand the strategic important of these island for any nation threaten the existence of them. China will defense these key assets with their military force.



Sure, they can build as many as they want if they feel it helps them. Not going to deter the U.S. Navy and Air Force from sending in planes and ships during peacetime. After all the point of the islands is to stake their claim.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## F-22Raptor

Steakhouse said:


> These island can be dual use, in war time these island can launch fighter jet to ensure China won't cede the air superiority to the the U.S. navy in the SCS, these island can be China naval outpost to engage any hostile navy in SCS, China fully understand the strategic important of these island for any nation threaten the existence of them. China will defense these key assets with their military force.



Why don't you change to your real flags? You've already been called out by a mod here before.


----------



## Oldman1

TheTruth said:


> Guess after getting your pink asses handed to you in the Middle East your boys need a vacation. Lets hope they don't do too many drugs or kill too many of the locals.
> 
> Please tell me how ISIS was actually an American victory. I'm waiting for it.



A vacation? The U.S. is still bombing in Iraq.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Oldman1 said:


> You don't have the balls to stop American warships and planes traversing in the waters and as you already stated already done and that China still claims the whole entire SCS no matter how many islands you made. That is the purpose and pointed out in the first place in the op.
> 
> 
> 
> To show that China doesn't own all of SCS. Because if they did, they would not allow American ships or any other foreign vessels operating in there.




So just another cat and mouse game ? If chase them and they chase you?


Just last year there were reports about a interception of US aircraft by the Chinese ... Or maybe a repeat of Hainan type incident ? China still wins ?


----------



## TaiShang

Nityam said:


> Finally US shows some balls. Now let us see if they actually do it.



In fact, they are showing it to everybody. That's not a new or recent thing. Their balls have been/are being served back in Libya, Ukraine and Afghanistan, to name a few. Obama showed balls when he was hellbent to open war against Syria. China and Russia fed his balls down to his throat. You know, showing off stuff is one thing, but keeping the show in sync with action is another.

US hyper-nationalists, false flaggers and few lackeys are funny. China builds islands and US sends patrol ships, and the game continues. No body says the build-up will deter the US, why would it? The point is to have the capability when one needs it, not to put it in immediate use.

These steps are not an open declaration of war or anything. Don't get too high, US ultra-nationalists. They are part of capability-building, hence peaceful.



Oldman1 said:


> Hey, the benefits from that is the Filipinos decided to invite the U.S. back in after they kicked the U.S. out.



Good. I hope you send even more after a Republican is elected for president. Not our concern. After Okinawans, a whole lot of happy Filipino locals.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Oldman1 said:


> You don't have the balls to stop American warships and planes traversing in the waters and as you already stated already done and that China still claims the whole entire SCS no matter how many islands you made. That is the purpose and pointed out in the first place in the op.
> 
> 
> 
> To show that China doesn't own all of SCS. Because if they did, they would not allow American ships or any other foreign vessels operating in there.




So just another cat and mouse game ? You chase them and they chase you?


Just last year there were reports about a interception of US aircraft by the Chinese ... Or maybe a repeat of Hainan type incident ? China still wins ... And more military build up follows .. 


(And yet also main one of the largest or the largest trading partner of USA itself).. Lol.


----------



## Oldman1

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> So just another cat and mouse game ? If chase them and they chase you?
> 
> 
> Just last year there were reports about a interception of US aircraft by the Chinese ... Or maybe a repeat of Hainan type incident ? China still wins ?



Did the Hainan incident stop the recon by American planes? No. Did stopping in front of American warships stop the U.S. from sending ships to SCS, nope. Last year they intercept a plane, great job. Take pics and go home.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TaiShang

Oldman1 said:


> A vacation? The U.S. is still bombing in Iraq.



You should do more. Put boots on the ground. Your ally (Jabhat al-Nusra (former AQ)) against Assad is rooting for it.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Oldman1

TaiShang said:


> You should do more. Put boots on the ground. Your Jabhat al-Nusra (former AQ) allies against Assad is rooting for it.



Umm there are American boots on the ground currently. Its a well known fact.


----------



## Steakhouse

F-22Raptor said:


> Why don't you change to your real flags? You've already been called out by a mod here before.


Why would I change the flag? change the flag to phillipine and Vietnam won't change my oppion of the issue in SCS.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TaiShang

Oldman1 said:


> Umm there are American boots on the ground currently. Its a well known fact.



In Syria? That's new to me. As far as I know, you provide logistics and training to JN terrorists, but not involved in direct action against former ally ISIS or new enemy, Assad. Any links?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Gufi

Nihonjin1051 said:


> For me, I would say that there are few countries in the world , right now, who have such a broad span of national interest that extends from the Atlantic to the Pacific as the United States.


That is the issue, you can not expect the armed forces to fix this problem, and I use fix in the broadest of terms. What will be the fix here will be US Navy ships patrolling without any one disturbing them and at the same time the Islands will get completed and a stronger grip achieved. Going to war is something neither nation will do and it will be a wasted exercise in terms of conflict resolution. I was not doubting the US Navy which is the strongest right now but rather what it achieves. And as for ask Americans, old habits die hard, tagging you for opinions is one of them.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Oldman1 said:


> Did the Hainan incident stop the recon by American planes? No. Did stopping in front of American warships stop the U.S. from sending ships to SCS, nope. Last year they intercept a plane, great job. Take pics and go home.



Ah cool ... And what did you gain ? Nothing... The Chinese didn't stop reclaiming or building infra in SCS or harassing yours assets.. I seriously don't see any gain to USA or Vietnam ?


----------



## Oldman1

TaiShang said:


> In Syria? That's new to me. As far as I know, you provide logistics and training to JN terrorists, but not involved in direct action against former ally ISIS or new enemy, Assad. Any links?



I'm referring to Iraq. But I wouldn't be surprise about Syria as well. Just recently the U.S. tried to sent a force in to rescue the hostages but that failed and they decided to kill the hostages in retaliation. But thats another story.



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Ah cool ... And what did you gain ? Nothing... The Chinese didn't stop reclaiming or building infra in SCS or harassing yours assets.. I seriously don't see any gain to USA or Vietnam ?



Intelligence and free navigation of the seas which is what the U.S. wants. If China really wish they could, they would try to prevent that from happening. After all why would the U.S. send recon planes for? To stake our claims in SCS?


----------



## sicsheep

F-22Raptor said:


> Exactly, this is ultimately a message to the Chinese that they won't be able to impede US ships and aircraft from traversing the SCS.



pretty weak for an ultimate massage lol,


Oldman1 said:


> You don't have the balls to stop American warships and planes traversing in the waters and as you already stated already done and that China still claims the whole entire SCS no matter how many islands you made. That is the purpose and pointed out in the first place in the op.
> 
> 
> 
> To show that China doesn't own all of SCS. Because if they did, they would not allow American ships or any other foreign vessels operating in there.



we never claimed we own the waters, we even hold exercise with USN in SCS from time to time, the nine dash line means we own all the islands and reefs within it. so stop b!tching and fire your guns already.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Gufi

KAL-EL said:


> 'here' = the usual hyper-nationalists


The use of the navy is both futile and inflammatory, because on one side you know there will be no war and on the other it will make things worse in diplomatic terms. There is no real policy plan in place in regards to this issue and laughing at other people will not solve this issue. Nationalists maybe wrong in their assumptions but I am at a loss myself at what this will achieve.


----------



## TaiShang

Oldman1 said:


> Intelligence and free navigation of the seas which is what the U.S. wants. If China really wish they could, they would try to prevent that from happening.



You have all your freedom of navigation, for sure. If US really wanted to achieve something, it woould stop China from its regular activities in the SCS. Otherwise, China values open trade routes (as the largest trading nation on earth) as much as (if not more than) the US does.

In fact, the build-up is partly to ensure freedom of navigation for everybody and contribute to the regional economic development.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Oldman1

sicsheep said:


> pretty weak for an ultimate massage lol,
> 
> 
> we never claimed we own the waters, we even hold exercise with USN in SCS from time to time, the nine dash line means we own all the islands and reefs within it. so stop b!tching and fire your guns already.



 You telling me that the 9 or the newly 10 dash line was never about claiming all the islands and waters of SCS?


----------



## TaiShang

Oldman1 said:


> You telling me that the 9 or the newly 10 dash line was never about claiming all the islands and waters of SCS?



It is about the physical structures, not the water itself. Hence the dashed line, not a solid one. Of course, each island comes with its EEZ, but, I guess the issue is negotiable if it overlaps with the EEZ of other nations.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Oldman1

TaiShang said:


> You have all your freedom of navigation, for sure. If US really wanted to achieve something, it woould stop China from its regular activities in the SCS. Otherwise, China values open trade routes (as the largest trading nation on earth) as much as (if not more than) the US does.
> 
> In fact, the build-up is partly to ensure freedom of navigation for everybody and contribute to the regional economic development.



My idealistic dream is to see all the nations that has stake claims to SCS to share that territory (in other words shares the resources) but thats not going to happen. In any case, recent actions by China trying to stop an American warship in SCS by parking in front of it doesn't tell me much about the respect for freedom of navigation.


----------



## sicsheep

Oldman1 said:


> You telling me that the 9 or the newly 10 dash line was never about claiming all the islands and waters of SCS?



LOL read my post genius, I said we own the islands and reefs and whatever resources in SCS but we dont own the sea itself, therefore we dont give a fvck if US navy warship is in SCS.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TaiShang

Oldman1 said:


> My idealistic dream is to see all the nations that has stake claims to SCS to share that territory but thats not going to happen. In any case, recent actions by China trying to stop an American warship in SCS by parking in front of it doesn't tell me much about the respect for freedom of navigation.



That's a warship which has nothing to do with trade. Trade ships can sail freely without the presence of a US warship. Besides, once your presence gets too close and threatening to China's national security, you will be warned.

You have been doing the same thing with Russians.

You are free to use international waters, not China's waters. The SCS construction is to make sure that your actions are better monitored and, in times of conflict or war, your military presence is brought to nil. 

In peace time, the SCS construction is to ensure security and freedom of navigation.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Oldman1

TaiShang said:


> It is about the physical structures, not the water itself. Hence the dashed line, not a solid one. Of course, each island comes with its EEZ, but, I guess the issue is negotiable if it overlaps with the EEZ of other nations.



Well I can see how important the fishing industry is besides the islands and the resources under the seabed.



TaiShang said:


> That's a warship which has nothing to do with trade. Trade ships can sail freely without the presence of a US warship. Besides, once your presence gets too close and threatening to China's national security, you will be warned.
> 
> You have been doing the same thing with Russians.
> 
> You are free to use international waters, not China's waters. The SCS construction is to make sure that your actions are better monitored and, in times of conflict or war, your military presence is brought to nil.
> 
> In peace time, the SCS construction is to ensure security and freedom of navigation.



So American warships are not allowed in SCS? Even though you stated that its international waters.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TaiShang

Oldman1 said:


> Well I can see how important the fishing industry is besides the islands and the resources under the seabed.



Yes, there is economic interests that overlap with geo-strategic interests. That's the particular claimants to decide. There is always a chance to sign fishery and joint exploration/resource sharing agreements.

China has offered this to all first-degree parties to the conflict.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Oldman1

sicsheep said:


> LOL read my post genius, I said we own the islands and reefs and whatever resources in SCS but we dont own the sea itself, therefore we dont give a fvck if US navy warship is in SCS.



Taishang seems to disagree with that view.


----------



## F-22Raptor

Oldman1 said:


> You telling me that the 9 or the newly 10 dash line was never about claiming all the islands and waters of SCS?



Ya, his claim that China only wants to control the islands and not the SCS is utter BS.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## TaiShang

Oldman1 said:


> So American warships are not allowed in SCS? Even though you stated that its international waters.



I guess every nation is free to send warships in international waters. But, given the contested status of the SCS, where international water starts and ends is debatable. Of course no nation will allow foreign surveillance ships to sail right into its territories.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Beast

F-22Raptor said:


> Exactly, this is ultimately a message to the Chinese that they won't be able to impede US ships and aircraft from traversing the SCS.


Travel in SCS is one thing. Taking back islets back for yr philippines and Vietnam is another thing. If China construction in SCS is completed with military airfield, port and Scarborough shoal is still under Chinese control. US BS has once again failed just like how you respond to ukraine and Georgia.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## sicsheep

Oldman1 said:


> Taishang seems to disagree with that view.



No, what he means is when you are their for intel gathering, expect to be harassed. because we have the freedom to navigate in your path, deal with it. 

If we own the sea itself, we'd stop all merchant ships and make them pay to go through SCS, in which case we are not.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## TaiShang

Oldman1 said:


> Taishang seems to disagree with that view.



No, basically, it is the physical structures that are claimed as well as their particular EEZ. He just did not mention that (China repeatedly said that) natural resources can be explored jointly or various agreements can be signed.

Freedom of navigation, especially for trade, is a major concern for China, too.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Oldman1

F-22Raptor said:


> Ya, his claim that China only wants to control the islands and not the SCS is utter BS.



If they keep making those islands and cover every inch of SCS, then its possible to make that claim legit.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Oldman1 said:


> I'm referring to Iraq. But I wouldn't be surprise about Syria as well. Just recently the U.S. tried to sent a force in to rescue the hostages but that failed and they decided to kill the hostages in retaliation. But thats another story.
> 
> 
> 
> Intelligence and free navigation of the seas which is what the U.S. wants. If China really wish they could, they would try to prevent that from happening. After all why would the U.S. send recon planes for? To stake our claims in SCS?




Intel in what ?  how to create landing strips and artificial islands ?


Free navigation .. Did you achieve that ? Nope .. Instead all you have achieved there is getting harassed and forced landings.


----------



## SR-91

KAL-EL said:


> lol so the US would lose a nuclear war to china, I guess China has a giant invisible indestructible force shield surrounding the entire country no one knows about. The US massive land & sea second strike capability would all of a sudden not exist either.



This fool doesn't know, china's nukes will be brought down before they leave their airspace.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Oldman1

sicsheep said:


> No, what he means is when you are their for intel gathering, expect to be harassed. because we have the freedom to navigate in your path, deal with it.
> 
> If we own the sea itself, we'd stop all merchant ships and make them pay to go through SCS, in which case we are not.



American warships like to go somewhere whether intelligence gathering or humanitarian aid, so no it shouldn't be harassed. After all you had a spy ship near Hawaii and it wasn't harassed or parked in front of it that could lead to collision. But I guess its different for China.


----------



## CCP

BoQ77 said:


> SOUTH CHINA SEA (May 11, 2015) The littoral combat ship USS Fort Worth (LCS 3) conducts patrols in international waters of the South China Sea near the Spratly Islands.







Well, here is the whole picture.

Followed by a Type 054A .

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Oldman1

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Intel in what ?  how to create landing strips and artificial islands ?
> 
> 
> Free navigation .. Did you achieve that ? Nope .. Instead all you have achieved there is getting harassed and forced landings.



Possibly. Its a good idea to know how to make artificial islands and landing strips. American warships still travel in SCS, so yeah they still achieve that.


----------



## Steakhouse

pivot to Asia only accelerate China island reclamation in the SCS. Pivot to Asia served the purpose for china to turn the inhabitat corral reef into dual use artificial island in SCS.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TaiShang

SR-91 said:


> This fool doesn't know, china's nukes will be brought down before they leave their airspace.



Now that the Indian has all the answers, the US people can sleep in peace this night.



Oldman1 said:


> If they keep making those islands and cover every inch of SCS, then its possible to make that claim legit.



The dashed line is for the structures, not for the waters. The purpose construction is scientific, security and development related. The islands can in no way cover the entire SCS. At the end of the day, regional development is good for all nations. Chinese Navy as regional power is there to protect the freedom of navigation by fighting piracy and offering help during crises. This, in fact, what the US has been doing in various parts of the world for ages. 

We are here to bring freedom, peace and prosperity. It takes hard work, but nothing can really stop us.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Oldman1

TaiShang said:


> Now that the Indian has all the answers, the US people can sleep in peace this night.
> 
> 
> 
> The dashed line is for the structures, not for the waters. The purpose construction is scientific, security and development related. The islands can in no way cover the entire SCS. At the end of the day, regional development is good for all nations. Chinese Navy as regional power is there to protect the freedom of navigation by fighting piracy and offering help during crises. This, in fact, what the US has been doing in various parts of the world for ages.
> 
> We are here to bring freedom, peace and prosperity. It takes hard work, but nothing can really stop us.



Really?

"No, basically, it is the physical structures that are claimed as well as their particular EEZ. He just did not mention that (China repeatedly said that) natural resources can be explored jointly or various agreements can be signed."-TaiShang. 

I'm joking about making so many islands made by China that is could cover all of SCS, but I know the importance of what islands can do especially establishing EEZs even a few of them strategically placed.



Transhumanist said:


> How can it be the whole picture if the wake behind the LCS in the first pic and the wake behind lead ship in the second picture aren't the same? It's not the same picture.
> 
> @SvenSvensonov @Penguin - Navy guys, this isn't the same picture from different angles is it?



Its different thats for sure. But it doesn't matter, all they can do is watch even if its real.


----------



## TaiShang

Oldman1 said:


> Really?
> 
> "No, basically, it is the physical structures that are claimed as well as their particular EEZ. He just did not mention that (China repeatedly said that) natural resources can be explored jointly or various agreements can be signed."-TaiShang.
> 
> I'm joking about making so many islands made by China that is could cover all of SCS, but I know the importance of what islands can do especially establishing EEZs even a few of them strategically placed.



Good, you have a sense of humor.

But, seriously, it is not the entire water, but just the physical features above the water that are claimed and built.

In terms of island building, China is in fact a late comer. Filippinos and Vietnamese started much earlier. Just as with the ADIZ thing. China has started doing what others have been doing for decades.

But, given its industrial capabilities and technological advancement, once on it, China's island development is explosive and catching a lot of headlines. But, once the reality sinks deep enough, people will get used to the new normal. Reactions are anticipated and mediocre for us.



Oldman1 said:


> I'm joking about making so many islands made by China that is could cover all of SCS, but I know the importance of what islands can do especially establishing EEZs even a few of them strategically placed.



Indeed. To have a strategic control over the SCS, you really do not need to own the entire sea. So, claiming the entire water does not make sense, to begin with. Besides, what is more important than the fisheries and resources is freedom of navigation, which is important for China as the largest trading nation on the face of the Earth.

What is important is capacity and capability-building. It does not mean you would use them right away. The capabilities can be mobilized only in times of crises. I guess, as a great power, US, at least in the past, was not foreign to the idea.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

What to call for Intercept the EP3 and P8 mid air in international airspace?

The problem is China calling international water and airspace as their sovereignty.
American and Japan, South Korea did challenge China claim several times.


----------



## soundwave1987

BoQ77 said:


> Vietnam need only 1200t to handle that 12000


pls enlighten me how, by crushing itself to the boardside of the 12000 ton one and cry for the sympathy of the world?


----------



## BoQ77

soundwave1987 said:


> pls enlighten me how, by crushing itself to the boardside of the 12000 ton one and cry for the sympathy of the world?



Vietnam ships are not for ramming others. It's Chinese ships who attempt to ram to others.


----------



## soundwave1987

Viet said:


> ok, that means we need to build bigger ships. that is not a fair game, nor fairplay. you are shameless.


no doubt you NEED to build bigger and build more, the only question is, CAN you?



BoQ77 said:


> Vietnam ships are not for ramming others. It's Chinese ships who attempt to ram to others.


Yeah, let's say even what you said was true, but how could you handle the gaint boat if you got rammed? After all the bigger ship is aimed on to take advantage in a the potential maritime collision and cruise as long as the ship can


----------



## Place Of Space

Guys, go back to build warships. The more the better, build 200 ships over 8000 tons. 

I support my govt do anything invest in the navy and air forces, punish those rogue states, 10 years, 30 years, 50 years that's all right.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

soundwave1987 said:


> no doubt you NEED to build bigger and build more, the only question is, CAN you?
> 
> 
> Yeah, let's say even what you said was true, but how could you handle the gaint boat if you got rammed? After all the bigger ship is aimed on to take advantage in a the potential maritime collision and cruise as long as the ship can



international maritime safety regulation made clear how to avoid collision, but China always violate any laws, rule and regulations they signed.


----------



## Huan

Oldman1 said:


> China's intention to reclaim all of South China Sea by building up artificial islands is not going to stop the U.S. from sending warships and planes no matter what.





Oldman1 said:


> My idealistic dream is to see all the nations that has stake claims to SCS to share that territory (in other words shares the resources) but thats not going to happen. In any case, recent actions by China trying to stop an American warship in SCS by parking in front of it doesn't tell me much about the respect for freedom of navigation.


Well, we do use our vast American navy to force respect. How can you expect China to do it any differently since its backyard in the Asia Pacific is heavily crowded with other claimant countries unlike our US West Coast and East Coast sea region, which has none. I can see people in Washington easily use these other claimant countries as hound dogs to watch over and contain China in the first and second island chains.


----------



## soundwave1987

BoQ77 said:


> international maritime safety regulation made clear how to avoid collision, but China always violate any laws, rule and regulations they signed.





BoQ77 said:


> international maritime safety regulation made clear how to avoid collision, but China always violate any laws, rule and regulations they signed.


Although I agree not with you and can defend ourselves like“you did it too”, it is not the matter. you aviod my question sir, I was asking HOW could a 1200 ton ship handle a 12000 ton one if it got rammed, I know it is not a fair question but it could be ture.


----------



## Galad

USA military will stay at stage proposing and trying.Cant do anything to China -well apart of making noise and barking.In this case old saying "Dogs keep barking,caravan keep going " fits nicely situation.Chinese territory-China decision when and what to build.It is quite good idea for Uncle Sam instead putting his collective nose in other country internal affairs to start doing something for his country-like creating jobs for all those 93 + millions working-age USA citizens with no jobs.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## BoQ77

SOUTH CHINA SEA (May 10, 2015) USS Carl Vinson (CVN 70), USS Gridley (DDG 101) and Royal Malaysian Navy KD Lekir (FSG 26) participate in a PASSEX exercise, aimed at developing and expanding bi-lateral exercises with the Malaysian Royal Navy. Carl Vinson Strike group is deployed to the 7th Fleet area of operation supporting security and stability in the Indo-Asia-Pacific region

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## xunzi

Our American friend needs to respect our territorial sovereignty just as we respect of their sovereignty and other states.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## CCP

BoQ77 said:


> SOUTH CHINA SEA (May 10, 2015) USS Carl Vinson (CVN 70), USS Gridley (DDG 101) and Royal Malaysian Navy KD Lekir (FSG 26) participate in a PASSEX exercise, aimed at developing and expanding bi-lateral exercises with the Malaysian Royal Navy. Carl Vinson Strike group is deployed to the 7th Fleet area of operation supporting security and stability in the Indo-Asia-Pacific region



They were in a safe distance.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## KAL-EL

BoQ77 said:


> SOUTH CHINA SEA (May 10, 2015) USS Carl Vinson (CVN 70), USS Gridley (DDG 101) and Royal Malaysian Navy KD Lekir (FSG 26) participate in a PASSEX exercise, aimed at developing and expanding bi-lateral exercises with the Malaysian Royal Navy. Carl Vinson Strike group is deployed to the 7th Fleet area of operation supporting security and stability in the Indo-Asia-Pacific region



So beautiful to look at

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## gambit

xunzi said:


> Our American friend needs to respect our territorial sovereignty just as we respect of their sovereignty and other states.


The South China Sea region is *NOT* your sovereignty.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Zero_wing

KAL-EL said:


> lol well.. most rational and logical people are aware of the consequences of a nuclear confrontation. There are some keyboard warriors here that live in a fantasy land, and think of a nuclear war like a video game they can survive and respawn from.



Nuke are fools weapons people have already created weapons with same ammount of force without the fallout


----------



## xunzi

gambit said:


> The South China Sea region is *NOT* your sovereignty.


I'm talking about the islands that are in our possession and administer by us.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TaiShang

China's ongoing build-up in SCS is to ensure that its sovereignty rights are protected, which includes the entire features within the dashed-line.

Putting this reality aside, the rest is a sort of great power game: One chases the other and the other harasses another.

Nuke or a conventional warfare is out of question. Won't happen. Stop acting like the old delusional professional dude above.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## gambit

xunzi said:


> I'm talking about the islands that are in our possession and administer by us.


Then withdraw that dashy line. Sorry...I almost forgot...That dashy line does not cover water...

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## xunzi

gambit said:


> Then withdraw that dashy line. Sorry...I almost forgot...That dashy line does not cover water...


When the time is ripe and condition are met, we will have a proper answer.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## TaiShang

China will just go on with the construction of the islands within the dashed-line, as per the national policy. US can draw new reddish lines as they please. Hopefully the red lines can last at least a few weeks. Or, is Obama drawing the red lines on a white board which are accidentally erased by the staff?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## gambit

xunzi said:


> When the time is ripe and condition are met, we will have a proper answer.


Yeah...The next US President is going to assign a regular patrol to the SCS. I guess we can expect China's respond to be the same as with the Hainan Incident -- collision.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## xunzi

gambit said:


> Yeah...The next US President is going to assign a regular patrol to the SCS. I guess we can expect China's respond to be the same as with the Hainan Incident -- collision.


A good poker player never shown their hand until the last card is being draw out. I hope you understand this concept, my lovely friend! LOL

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TaiShang

China will monitor and track any activity in SCS. As the build-up continues, the ability to monitor the area increases. This is what really matters. Other than that, ships can sail through so long as they do not trespass on China's security concerns.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## gambit

TaiShang said:


> China will monitor and track any activity in SCS. As the build-up continues, the ability to monitor the area increases. This is what really matters. Other than that, *ships can sail through* so long as they do not trespass on China's security concerns.


Ships can sail through because the US will ensure China's restraints.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## BoQ77




----------



## Srinivas

xunzi said:


> Our American friend needs to respect our territorial sovereignty just as we respect of their sovereignty and other states.



It is foolish to think that seas and international waters can be claimed as territorial sovereignty.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## BoQ77

soundwave1987 said:


> Although I agree not with you and can defend ourselves like“you did it too”, it is not the matter. you aviod my question sir, I was asking HOW could a 1200 ton ship handle a 12000 ton one if it got rammed, I know it is not a fair question but it could be ture.



Who so foolish that attemp to handle a 12,000 ton by ramming. There're 18 other ways.


----------



## Beidou2020

When you can actually stop China building in the SCS, then lets talk.

Until then, these are hot air warnings that no one cares.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Audio

xunzi said:


> A good poker player never shown their hand until the last card is being draw out. I hope you understand this concept, my lovely friend! LOL



Everyone knows your hand.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## TaiShang

Audio said:


> Everyone knows your hand.



They are wrong. LOL. They think they know.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Beidou2020

US military can't do a damn thing to stop China in the SCS, and the US feels utterly powerless looking at what China is doing in the SCS.

China is making a complete and utter mockery of the US so called superpower status.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TaiShang

Beidou2020 said:


> US military can't do a damn thing to stop China in the SCS, and the US feels utterly powerless looking at what China is doing in the SCS.
> 
> China is making a complete and utter mockery of the US so called superpower status.



China builds. Just builds. Why this should concern others?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zero_wing

xunzi said:


> Our American friend needs to respect our territorial sovereignty just as we respect of their sovereignty and other states.



Wow hypocras


----------



## Audio

TaiShang said:


> They are wrong. LOL. They think they know.



Nah. You just think you're the smartest.
CCP won't risk any protracted war anyway, as this inherently brings instability and we all know what a dreaded term that is for the CCP.

Now it appears that even a limited war to ratchet up public opinion in response to deteriorating economic conditions is out of the question as it seems US ships will patrol there not those of Phillipines and Vietnam, which would have been an easy target and win.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## BoQ77

Audio said:


> Nah. You just think you're the smartest.
> CCP won't risk any protracted war anyway, as this inherently brings instability and we all know what a dreaded term that is for the CCP.
> 
> Now it appears that even a limited war to ratchet up public opinion in response to deteriorating economic conditions is out of the question as it seems US ships will patrol there not those of Phillipines and Vietnam, which would have been an easy target and win.



That's why China focus on build so big Coast Guard ships for ramming


----------



## TaiShang

Audio said:


> Nah. You just think you're the smartest.
> CCP won't risk any protracted war anyway, as this inherently brings instability and we all know what a dreaded term that is for the CCP.
> 
> Now it appears that even a limited war to ratchet up public opinion in response to deteriorating economic conditions is out of the question as it seems US ships will patrol there not those of Phillipines and Vietnam, which would have been an easy target and win.



China is not interested in war, but building up capability.

This is China's development and strength gathering moment (although these normally never end). As long as US lackeys or the master itself do not shoot, all silent on the SCS front.

But they should keep sending ships and patrolling the area. The more fuel they burn, the better. But they will not have any practical impact on China's actions.

Look, even the Vietnamese above thinks he knows what is China up to.

Reactions: Like Like:

3


----------



## 大汉奸柳传志

Oldman1 said:


> *Its okay to be mad* when you have Japanese ships in Chinese waters. Not to mention those Chinese islands that the Japanese occupied which is what was it they called? SENKAKU Islands they said? Man thats a big middle finger there to China.


Sure grandpa，if you say so 

And I think you are mixing up SENKAKU with SCS here，they are miles apart，I suggest you go see a map first，
...or maybe a neurologist, I hear mixing stuff up could be early signs of something，ya know，common among senior citizens

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Beidou2020

China should accelerate construction activity in the SCS and put more oil rigs in the SCS. Hopefully create the SCS ADIZ.

Let's see if the US can follow up on their warnings and stop China.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## TaiShang

Beidou2020 said:


> China should accelerate construction activity in the SCS and put more oil rigs in the SCS. Hopefully create the SCS ADIZ.
> 
> Let's see if the US can follow up on their warnings and stop China.



As far as I know, the second rig is being built. When China decides so, it will send another exploration team to the area.

I guess SCS ADIZ is in the making. Probably some of the construction is for that purpose. 

We will have to confront a lot of cyber jumping in the future. Buckle up!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Pangu

TaiShang said:


> China will monitor and track any activity in SCS. As the build-up continues, the ability to monitor the area increases. This is what really matters. Other than that, ships can sail through so long as they do not trespass on China's security concerns.



Yes. The key is NOT to restrict navigation but to monitor navigation, specifically naval vessels & military aircrafts. Despite all the hoohaa by various posters in this thread, we are not in the least disadvantaged, even if their vessels sail within the 12 nautical miles limit. Ultimately, gathering intel 24/7 & providing persistant naval & airstrip facilities is the upmost importance expected of those islands.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## CCP

BoQ77 said:


> That's why China focus on build so big Coast Guard ships for ramming



We are also building most of warships in the world.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Beidou2020

TaiShang said:


> As far as I know, the second rig is being built. When China decides so, it will send another exploration team to the area.
> 
> I guess SCS ADIZ is in the making. Probably some of the construction is for that purpose.
> 
> We will have to confront a lot of cyber jumping in the future. Buckle up!



Did you post that article where it said China has already built its 2nd oil rig?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## CCP

Oldman1 said:


> Its okay to be mad when you have Japanese ships in Chinese waters. Not to mention those Chinese islands that the Japanese occupied which is what was it they called? SENKAKU Islands they said? Man thats a big middle finger there to China.



Well, in 2013, China set ADIZ covered "senkaku" . Then, Japanese plane never shows up at Senkaku island anymore.
US also ordered its airline to report to China when they going in to the ADIZ. ( US did send 2 b-52 to touch the edge of the ADIZ in the first 2 days,LOL.)

That must be a huge middle finger to you.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Audio

TaiShang said:


> China is not interested in war, but building up capability.
> 
> This is China's development and strength gathering moment (although these normally never end). As long as US lackeys or the master itself do not shoot, all silent on the SCS front.
> 
> But they should keep sending ships and patrolling the area. The more fuel they burn, the better. But they will not have any practical impact on China's actions.
> 
> Look, even the Vietnamese above thinks he knows what is China up to.



Like i said, everyone knows your hand. If you think differently, LOL then.
I won't go into detail here as you're not really worth it, just sayin'


----------



## Beidou2020

Audio said:


> Like i said, everyone knows your hand. And they are forcing you to open up your hand. Hard times.



US military can't even stop China's construction in the SCS.

What happened to the 'Asian pivot' that was going to scare China and stop China?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## TaiShang

Audio said:


> Like i said, everyone knows your hand. If you think differently, LOL then.
> I won't go into detail here as you're not really worth it, just sayin'



I think you should go into detail for the rest of the audience here. Shutting up because of me would not do justice to the overall well-being and development of the PDF community. Think for a moment, maybe some policy makers in the US do not know China's hand. Your service will be remembered. 



Beidou2020 said:


> US military can't even stop China's construction in the SCS.
> 
> What happened to the 'Asian pivot' that was going to scare China and stop China?



Pivot is singing _Crimea River_ now. Just like the "reset" before. LOL.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Audio

TaiShang said:


> I think you should go into detail for the rest of the audience here. Shutting up because of me would not to justice to the overall well-being and development of the PDF community.
> 
> 
> 
> Pivot is singing _Crimea River_ now. Just like the "reset" before. LOL.



Mate, you and your coworkers provide all the fun required.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## TaiShang

Audio said:


> Mate, you and your coworkers provide all the fun required.



You co-workers have not done a worse job, either. We had fun. But they seem to have left the office. Are you doing overtime?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cnleio

05.11 South China Sea near Spratly Island, USN LCS-3 lead the way, behind PLAN type054A FFG following it.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Audio

TaiShang said:


> You co-workers have not done a worse job, either. We had fun. But they seem to have left the office. Are you doing overtime?



No, not really, I can afford to not do time at all, let alone overtime as i live mostly off royalties for my previous work.
So, i can spend my time trolling and doing stuff for the soul. Is nighttime in US now btw, like somewhere around midnight.

In case you want to know why you fail at copying my trolling.



cnleio said:


> 05.11 South China Sea near Spratly Island, USN LCS-3 lead the way, behind PLAN type054A FFG following it.



You welcome to come here, but we follow! Freedom of navigation Chinese style. 

Sweet pics though.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## TaiShang

cnleio said:


> 05.11 South China Sea, USN LCS-3 lead the way, behind PLAN 054A FFG following it
> 
> View attachment 220960
> View attachment 220961
> View attachment 220962
> View attachment 220963



Kawai!



Audio said:


> No, not really, I can afford to not do time at all, let alone overtime as i live mostly off royalties for my previous work.
> So, i can spend my time trolling. Is nighttime in US now btw, like somewhere around midnight.
> 
> In case you want to know why you fail at copying my trolling.



I am not sure where you live. So I cannot tell the time in your dwelling. Could be early morning; early evening (like here) or late night. cannot take your word for it. If you are doing overtime, just make sure to keep hydrated.

I am a researcher and lecturer in the field of IR, so, this stuff is of interest to me. Having fun while keeping updated with new developments. One stone, a dozen of birds.

Have no intention to plagiarize your trolling. You probably belong to a different league.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## soundwave1987

BoQ77 said:


> Who so foolish that attemp to handle a 12,000 ton by ramming. There're 18 other ways.


well then the gaint will not be stoped from rampaging and so called "other way" is merely " thx for your company"


----------



## jhungary

Nihonjin1051 said:


> I think that the American members are more qualified to answer this , my friend, so let me invite the American members who have actual military backgrounds to share their conjectures @SvenSvensonov @gambit @jhungary .
> 
> For me, I would say that there are few countries in the world , right now, who have such a broad span of national interest that extends from the Atlantic to the Pacific as the United States. And a restructure of US priority is / has been happening these past 5 years. To us, what may seem as blunders or failure in strategic steps, I would conjecture that the United States Armed Forces have a deeper reason for the things they've done, or for implementation of new policies --- reasons that are known to them and not to us in the general public.



This is always going to be the same.

China will continue their reclamation, claiming the whole SCS belong to China and US will continue to run ship up and down and ignore these claim.

There will not be a war, not even to mention a nuclear war, would China risk getting the whole China nuke to the ground just for a few hundred island in the South China Sea?? And why would US uses nuke if there are no reason to do so, the only way a war, or a nuclear war will ever start is if China would be stupid enough to shoot at US Warship or Merchant Shipping, as the US said many time before and after the reclamation, they are for freedom of navigation, not whoever claiming what island.

So, if we write off these rhetoric, the only way a war of any kind would happen would be US claiming those Island for themselves, and this is the one thing the US would not do.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Audio

TaiShang said:


> I am not sure where you live. So I cannot tell the time in your dwelling.



Hard to read the flags? Or deduce why Americans don't post en masse at this hour? Some researcher you are 

How easily you get lured...LOL



TaiShang said:


> Could be early morning; early evening (like here) or late night. cannot take your word for it. If you are doing overtime, just make sure to keep hydrated.



Don't worry mate, only in China you are overworked to death. Literally! You should offer some advice to them.

Tian Fulei, Chinese Apple factory employee was 'worked to death', claim family | Daily Mail Online




TaiShang said:


> Have no intention to plagiarize your trolling. You probably belong to a different league.



You already did plagiarize it. And ya, i'm in a different league. Miles above you, in mostly everything, probably. No joke. I do conceed you are probably better at preparing rice meals. but that's about it.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TaiShang

And would the US risk being nuked over a few uninhabited islands? And, more, would it risk being glassified by Russia after China has done half of the job?

Conventional, let alone a nuclear war, is not possible.

If the US or any other power is too stupid to fire at China's ships or other facilities, then, the response will be equal, but even that would not amount to a conventional war.

As usual, China will continue to build up the islands and have greater control over the region and the US will keep patrolling the seas.



Audio said:


> Hard to read the flags? Or deduce why Americans don't post en masse at this hour? Some researcher you are
> 
> Don't worry mate, only in China you are overworked to death. Literally! You should offer some advice to them.
> 
> Tian Fulei, Chinese Apple factory employee was 'worked to death', claim family | Daily Mail Online
> 
> 
> You already did plagiarize it. And ya, i'm in a different league. Miles above you, in mostly everything, probably. No joke. I do conceed you are probably better at preparing rice meals. but that's about it.



One of your flags is not on. Fix it. And even flags do lie. So, leave it at that. I will presume it is night time and you are doing overtime.

And, more convincing than the daily mail article, we have confirmed reports of police brutality as well as the police being killed in great numbers in the US. You have got to some reason to die.

I love your faith in yourself. I will not even try to downplay it. By saying "probably' you are becoming humble.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cnleio

Audio said:


> You welcome to come here, but we follow! Freedom of navigation Chinese style.
> 
> Sweet pics though.


My suggestion is welcome U.S to give a war to China ... sometimes i just think our ppl & CCP living too much comfortable and forget outside risk, forget the war, forget ourselves ... that's absolutely not good for China development. So i wish U.S could give a war to China like 1999 they bombed China embassy during last Serbia Air-Attack, a foreign war is not a bad thing for China coz Chinese missed the war during last 30 years, before our ppl & CCP fall down to the hell U.S should give us a lesson again.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Audio

TaiShang said:


> One of your flags is not on. The other is not definitely the US flag. And even flags do lie. So, leave it at that.



Hover the mouse over it? Or you need instructions?



TaiShang said:


> And, more convincing than the daily mail article, we have confirmed reports of police brutality as well as the police being killed in great numbers in the US. You have got to some reason to die.



This is of no concern to me, i'm not from US.



TaiShang said:


> By saying "probably' you are becoming humble.



Just one of the many awesome qualities i have 

In any case, imma go out for coffee soon, so.....will probably not respond any further. Have a nice day.



cnleio said:


> My suggestion is welcome U.S to give a war to China ... sometimes i just think our ppl & CCP living too much comfortable and forget outside risk, forget the war, forget ourselves ... that's absolutely not good for China development. So i wish U.S could give a war to China like 1999 they bombed China embassy during last Serbia Air-Attack, a foreign war is not a bad thing for China coz Chinese missed the war during last 30 years, before our ppl & CCP fall down to the hell U.S should give us a lesson again.



Eh, war is never good. Even for "cleansing" purposes like you allude to!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

cnleio said:


> My suggestion is welcome U.S to give a war to China ... sometimes i just think our ppl & CCP living too much comfortable and forget outside risk, forget the war, forget ourselves ... that's absolutely not good for China development. So i wish U.S could give a war to China like 1999 they bombed China embassy during last Serbia Air-Attack, a foreign war is not a bad thing for China coz Chinese missed the war during last 30 years, before our ppl & CCP fall down to the hell U.S should give us a lesson again.



Print those and bring outside of your apartment, and see how China people react to you ? LOL


----------



## cnleio

Audio said:


> Eh, war is never good. Even for "cleansing" purposes like you allude to!


U don't know a foreign war is a good thing to boost domestic substantial economy ... ? As far as i see there'r many economic bubbles in China cities, coz our ppl & CCP living too much confortable and sent too much money to creat some 'Beautiful' & 'Awesome' bubbles ... maybe a war can bring us back and reunite together ... i believe right now a war can awake Chinese again and return our belief.

Whatever, my opinion is it's not a bad thing when U.S will give a war to China. After 30 years Peace Time, China should learn the war again.


----------



## BoQ77

cnleio said:


> U don't know a foreign war is a good thing to boost domestic substantial economy ... ? As far as i see there'r many economic bubbles in China cities, coz our ppl & CCP living too much confortable and sent too much money to creat some 'Beautiful' & 'Awesome' bubbles ... maybe a war can bring us back and reunite together ... i believe right now a war can awake Chinese again and return our belief.
> 
> Whatever, my opinion is it's not a bad thing when U.S will give a war to China.



I think you confused between "war" and "some bankruptcy".
I never wish a war happen to any country. I don't want to remind, but let remember about the WW2


----------



## LordTyrannus

if china wants to grow, it must challenge USN.

there is no other way.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Huan

LordTyrannus said:


> if china wants to grow, it must challenge USN.
> 
> there is no other way.


The USN is Washington's "big stick" in the room.


----------



## LordTyrannus

Huan said:


> The USN is Washington's "big stick" in the room.



and why is it of your concern? You should join deviantart and enjoy the big sticks on their nude sites.

We are discussing the fate of the free world here. So go away, illuminati pawn.


----------



## Huan

LordTyrannus said:


> and why is it of your concern? You should join deviantart and enjoy the big sticks on their nude sites.
> 
> We are discussing the fate of the free world here. So go away, illuminati pawn.


Calm down, you godless killer beast/bear.

Anyways, I'm just emphasizing that the US Navy is Washington's big military trump card of foreign policy to coerce other rival parties/countries into their bidding. Without it, the USA would not be pivoting to Asia in a big way to check on China.


----------



## LordTyrannus

Huan said:


> Calm down, you godless killer beast/bear.
> 
> Anyways, I'm just emphasizing that the US Navy is Washington's big military trump card of foreign policy to coerce other rival parties/countries into their bidding. Without it, the USA would not be pivoting to Asia in a big way to check on China.



shut up stupid illuminati. you are the ones who don´t believe in god.

you have blood on your hands by supporting dictators and killers all around the world.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

There're too many countries opposing the land reclamation activities of China !!!


----------



## LordTyrannus

BoQ77 said:


> There're too many countries opposing the land reclamation activities of China !!!



see the bigger picture. usa is the most imperialistic country in the world and they are feeding china with poison like capitalist thoughts of growing and expanding. china never was an imperialistic power and never will be.


----------



## BoQ77

Secretary of the Navy Ray Mabus highlights the importance of exchanges like Naval Engagement Activity Vietnam.


----------



## Keel

Zero_wing said:


> Again be civil insulting me this *p word* is like tell a black man the n word we are the only people who can use that word



Please be educated:

*"Definition of Pinoy in English:*
*adjective*
Philippines or the Filipinos:_a Pinoy dishhis Pinoy friends_

Filipino origin or descent; a Filipino:_the team was met by local officials and fellowPinoys wanting to lend their support_

*noun (plural same or Pinoys)*
Filipino origin or descent; a Filipino:_the team was met by local officials and fellowPinoys wanting to lend their support_
Pinoy - definition of Pinoy in English from the Oxford dictionary "

Check out the "*n*" word here from Oxford dictionary 
Link
It clearly marks these terms

_"offensive_
contemptuous term for a black person."

Your sense of insult is self-created out of thin air as you are not an ethnic Pinoy

_
"But if you ask me really again you *chinamen* are not so important if the taewan really did that i can cost billions on its economy remember of majority of filipinos working in taewan are in fields of computers especially in programing and manufacutring if you try to fire all those people at the same time and saction the country that contributes this workers how in reality can you fill the void left by this works and can you do that in mouth a year or a day? if you say yes to this then your really on drugs! So tastes Aholes stop being prick and shut it and do some reading and some counseling for your problems you racist bigot"_

And I've seen your repeatedly use of "c" on Chinese like that above in your post @# 68 *(edit: deleted due to language abuse) which is an offensive term
*Link*
_"dated_ or _offensive _A native of China."







Wax printing art China

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zero_wing

Again its the way you imperialist racist bigots use it i could care less about your limited access to the free internet


----------



## Keel

Zero_wing said:


> Again its the way you imperialist racist bigots use it i could care less about your limited access to the free internet



Dont always act like "victims" trying to internalise everything which is alien to your own and at the same time align yourself with the aggressive Japanese right wings creating more troubles than real life





Chinese Wax Printing Art

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## BoQ77



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Carlosa

cnleio said:


> U don't know a foreign war is a good thing to boost domestic substantial economy ... ? As far as i see there'r many economic bubbles in China cities, coz our ppl & CCP living too much confortable and sent too much money to creat some 'Beautiful' & 'Awesome' bubbles ... maybe a war can bring us back and reunite together ... i believe right now a war can awake Chinese again and return our belief.
> 
> Whatever, my opinion is it's not a bad thing when U.S will give a war to China. After 30 years Peace Time, China should learn the war again.



Its good to see that you are very eager for war and to learn the art of war, so....... when are you going to join the military?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zero_wing

Keel said:


> Dont always act like "victims" trying to internalise everything which is alien to your own and at the same time align yourself with the aggressive Japanese right wings creating more troubles than real life
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chinese Wax Printing Art



Oh please your kind is just trolling here if you dont like us filipinos feel free to leave our thread! again hypocrasy is a B@#ch


----------



## Keel

Zero_wing said:


> Oh please your kind is just trolling here if you dont like us filipinos feel free to leave our thread! again hypocrasy is a B@#ch



I have no problems with ANY civilian and civil Pinoys (or Viets for that matter) until some alien bigots like yourself who pretend to feel like a Filippino for the sole purpose of bashing China

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zero_wing

Keel said:


> I have no problems with ANY civilian and civil Pinoys (or Viets for that matter) until some alien bigots like yourself who pretend to feel like a Filippino for the sole purpose of bashing China



Man you people are text book case of hypocrasy again feel free to leave because this our thread you people are poluting this thread with your nonsense your not welcome here

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cnleio

Carlosa said:


> Its good to see that you are very eager for war and to learn the art of war, so....... when are you going to join the military?


That decided by U.S not me ... if Washington willing to a wide-scale war against China not only in SCS, whatever like or dislike they will let me in, or i just watch the news on the TV screen, or type something on PDF. If U.S to attack China ship or island but China not fight back, that not called 'war' ... both fire each others called 'war'. If U.S don't attack China just send ships sailing up and donw in SCS, nothing can stop China continue building these artificial islands.

Without war, nothing will change in SCS.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Elkanah

Does anyone here really believe that China will simply sit back and allow the U.S. To sail warships basically right up to the shoreline of its spratly island holdings? I believe this to be an illogical approach if adopted by U.S. And quite frankly the nation that will most feel the consequences will be the Philippines it provides the perfect pretext for China to engage in reciprocal actions against their and vietnams holdings

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## JayMandan

Photos from Agence France-Presse shows the destroyers from the Japan Maritime Self Defense Force (JMSDF), JS Harusume and JS Amagiri with the Philippine Navy frigate BRP Ramon Alcaraz during the PASSEX somewhere between Manila Bay and Subic yesterday May 12, 2015. Another photo shows the Philippine Navy AW109E helicopter landing on a deck of one of the Japanese destroyers.
Photos taken from ABS-CBN News website.
‪#‎MaxDefense

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## +4vsgorillas-Apebane

The American pull this crap every now and then. I still remember them sailing a carrier down the Taiwan strait and the Chinese of the time could do nothing. Times change and this is not 1996.

Another few decades before the blight of American interference is scoured clean from Asia and China will not forget those who harbor the forces that divided the East Asian sphere.

For now, war will not happen.

My prediction if the American do proceed.

1) Close incidents of Chinese aircraft and ships trailing American ones.
2) Unfriendly chatter broadcast over the radio about sovereignty and international waters.
3) Media propaganda on both sides.
4) American fcuking off after a few years to pursue a war in some god forsaken part of the world.



Audio said:


> *No, not really, I can afford to not do time at all, let alone overtime as i live mostly off royalties for my previous work.*
> 
> 
> Sweet pics though.



You do know that on the internet, such claims are taken with a grain of salt right? Might be true or not at all - who cares?

I am a gorilla posting this from a banana tree plugged into a jungle waterfall generator. 

I once destroyed a german tiger 2 tank in world war 2 by ripping off the hatch and beating up the crew.

I met Atatwolf at the shopping center yesterday and saw him hit his grandmother with a wrench. She then beat him up real bad.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Keel

Zero_wing said:


> Man you people are text book case of hypocrasy again feel free to leave because this our thread you people are poluting this thread with your nonsense your not welcome here



You are just absurd
You should be the one to leave using abusive tricks against China in your false pretenses, dirty diatribes amd thinking like the Japanese rightwings

It is not hard to know where you're from

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Aepsilons

JayMandan said:


> Photos from Agence France-Presse shows the destroyers from the Japan Maritime Self Defense Force (JMSDF), JS Harusume and JS Amagiri with the Philippine Navy frigate BRP Ramon Alcaraz during the PASSEX somewhere between Manila Bay and Subic yesterday May 12, 2015. Another photo shows the Philippine Navy AW109E helicopter landing on a deck of one of the Japanese destroyers.
> Photos taken from ABS-CBN News website.
> ‪#‎MaxDefense





Wonderful!!!


----------



## grand

Keel said:


> You are just absurd
> You should be the one to leave using abusive tricks against China in your false pretenses, dirty diatribes amd thinking like the Japanese rightwings
> 
> It is not hard to know where you're from



lol. you are getting too worked up about this. let these clawns jump up and down for our amusement. just relax and enjoy the show.

why would china care about japan and the philipines? frankly speaking they are just too insignificant. the phillipines dont even have a functioning navy. japan is crippled by radiation and its economy in perpetual decline. there is nothing the two clawns can do.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TaiShang

BoQ77 said:


> There're too many countries opposing the land reclamation activities of China !!!



There are too many countries who do not give a darn about Vietnam.



+4vsgorillas-Apebane said:


> You do know that on the internet, such claims are taken with a grain of salt right? Might be true or not at all - who cares?
> 
> I am a gorilla posting this from a banana tree plugged into a jungle waterfall generator.
> 
> I once destroyed a german tiger 2 tank in world war 2 by ripping off the hatch and beating up the crew.
> 
> I met Atatwolf at the shopping center yesterday and saw him hit his grandmother with a wrench. She then beat him up real bad.



Big LOL. Fantastic!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TaiShang

The moral of the story is that no matter how much Vietnam and the Philippines itch for it, China won't give them the war they want. 

They need to shoot first if they are really mad about that. Their big and little sugar daddies won't move finger, either. 

Warmongering rhetoric is useless as long as it remains a rhetoric. Talking won't move things, action will do.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Audio

+4vsgorillas-Apebane said:


> You do know that on the internet, such claims are taken with a grain of salt right? Might be true or not at all - who cares?



Like you say, who cares. And that includes me not caring if you believe this or not.

Congratz on that tiger kill though.


----------



## Zero_wing

Keel said:


> You are just absurd
> You should be the one to leave using abusive tricks against China in your false pretenses, dirty diatribes amd thinking like the Japanese rightwings
> 
> It is not hard to know where you're from



Wow just wow look at a hole making things worse am filipino

 we here are talking about Philippine Japanese relations on defense matter your just trolling and the fact is maority of what we filipino members say in this forum is true we have no reasons to lie and what we gain from that! for one thing you people are the only liers here talking about crap you have no real evidence just back talk and hot air arrogance of your racial superiority again you people are just arrogant and full of crap again leave your trolling nonsense is not welcome here if you dont i just counter you again you have been warned!



TaiShang said:


> The moral of the story is that no matter how much Vietnam and the Philippines itch for it, China won't give them the war they want.
> 
> They need to shoot first if they are really mad about that. Their big and little sugar daddies won't move finger, either.
> 
> Warmongering rhetoric is useless as long as it remains a rhetoric. Talking won't move things, action will do.



man you guys are just trolling really who as bigger defense budget for no reason man you guys are just the text book case of hypocrasy


----------



## JayMandan

^Lol at warmongering rhetoric and bull talking. Your people are the ones who invaded this thread with such attitude. If you're jealous about our countries love affair then say it, otherwise post something relevant and with a little bit of RESPECT.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BuddhaPalm

SOUTH CHINA SEA (May 11, 2015) The littoral combat ship USS Fort Worth (LCS 3) conducts patrols in international waters of the South China Sea near the Spratly Islands as the People's Liberation Army-Navy [PLA(N)] guided-missile frigate Yancheng (FFG 546) transits close behind. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 2nd Class Conor Minto/Released)

Face Off: China's Navy Stalks U.S. Ship in South China Sea | The National Interest Blog

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zero_wing

Man more chinese harassments


----------



## F-22Raptor

*Fort Worth Completes South China Sea Patrol 
*
Littoral combat ship USS Fort Worth (LCS 3) arrived here to resupply May 13 after a weeklong routine patrol in international waters and airspace of the South China Sea near the Spratly Islands.

While Fort Worth has transited the South China Sea many times, this patrol marks the first time an LCS has operated in international waters near the Spratlys.

"As part of our strategic rebalance to bring our newest and most capable Navy platforms to the Indo-Asia-Pacific, LCS now has a regular presence in Southeast Asia," said Capt. Fred Kacher, commodore, Destroyer Squadron (DESRON) 7. "Routine operations like the one Fort Worth just completed in the South China Sea will be the new normal as we welcome four LCSs to the region in the coming years. Deployment of multiple LCSs to Southeast Asia underscores the importance of this 'region on the rise' and the value persistent presence brings."

Fort Worth is the second LCS to deploy to U.S. 7th Fleet as part of an initiative to simultaneously deploy up to four LCS to the Indo-Asia-Pacific region in just a few years. The third and fourth LCSs are planned to arrive in 2016, when the region will see two of these ships deployed at the same time.

Fort Worth is also the first LCS to deploy under the "3-2-1" manning concept, which allows LCS to sustain a 16-month rotational presence without fatiguing the crew during the extended deployment, which is twice as long as typical U.S. Navy ship deployments. It is named 3-2-1 because three rotational crews will support two LCS ships, one of which is deployed. Future LCS deployments to the region will employ this concept, allowing for enhanced U.S. Navy presence throughout the Indo-Asia-Pacific.

While operating in international waters and airspace near the Spratly's, Fort Worth conducted flight operations with its MQ-8B Fire Scout unmanned aircraft system and MH-60R Seahawk helicopter. Fort Worth encountered multiple People's Liberation Army-Navy [PLA(N)] warships, each time taking the opportunity to use the Code for Unplanned Encounters at Sea (CUES).

"Just like our first meeting in February with a PLA(N) warship, guided-missile frigate Hengshui (FFG 572), our interactions with Chinese ships continue to be professional and CUES helps clarify intentions and prevent miscommunication," said Cmdr. Matt Kawas, Fort Worth Crew 103 commanding officer.

Following the brief stop for fuel in the Philippines, Fort Worth will return to Singapore for the International Maritime Defense Exhibition and Conference (IMDEX) 2015 just ahead of the second crew swap in late May.

Throughout the summer and fall, Fort Worth will take part in most of the 2015 CARAT exercise series. In its 21st year, CARAT is an annual, bilateral exercise series with the U.S. Navy, U.S. Marine Corps and the armed forces of nine partner nations including, Bangladesh, Brunei, Cambodia, Indonesia, Malaysia, the Republic of the Philippines, Singapore, Thailand and Timor-Leste.

During February and March, Fort Worth participated in the annual U.S.-Republic of Korea exercise Foal Eagle and conducted a maintenance availability in Sasebo, Japan, expanding LCS' operational reach to Northeast Asia for the first time. Following the availability, Fort Worth returned to Southeast Asia where she took part in the sixth-annual Naval Engagement (NEA) Vietnam with the Vietnam People's Navy (VPN) in April, spending a day operating at-sea with the VPN.

"We've made great strides in terms of LCS' operational potential in a short period of time," said Kacher. "With the regular and routine presence of LCS here, we are far better able to spend the time and resources required to build regional maritime capacity, helping to achieve the 'Network of Navies' outlined in the Navy's newly-released maritime strategy."

Fast, agile and mission-focused, littoral combat ships are designed to operate in near-shore environments and employ modular mission packages that can be configured for surface warfare, mine countermeasures or anti-submarine warfare.

Fort Worth will employ the surface warfare (SUW) mission package for her entire deployment, augmenting her 57mm gun and rolling airframe missile launcher with two 30mm guns, two 11-meter rigid-hull inflatable boats, and two six-member maritime security boarding teams. Enhancing the SUW mission package is the embarked aviation detachment from Helicopter Maritime Squadron (HSM) 35, the Navy's first composite expeditionary helicopter squadron, which consists of one Sea Hawk helicopter and one Fire Scout.

The U.S. 7th Fleet conducts forward-deployed naval operations in support of U.S. national interests in the Indo-Asia-Pacific area of operations. As the U.S. Navy's largest numbered fleet, U.S. 7th Fleet interacts with 35 other maritime nations to build partnerships that foster maritime security, promote stability and prevent conflict.

Fort Worth Completes South China Sea Patrol

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Aepsilons

F-22Raptor said:


> *Fort Worth Completes South China Sea Patrol
> *
> Littoral combat ship USS Fort Worth (LCS 3) arrived here to resupply May 13 after a weeklong routine patrol in international waters and airspace of the South China Sea near the Spratly Islands.
> 
> While Fort Worth has transited the South China Sea many times, this patrol marks the first time an LCS has operated in international waters near the Spratlys.
> 
> "As part of our strategic rebalance to bring our newest and most capable Navy platforms to the Indo-Asia-Pacific, LCS now has a regular presence in Southeast Asia," said Capt. Fred Kacher, commodore, Destroyer Squadron (DESRON) 7. "Routine operations like the one Fort Worth just completed in the South China Sea will be the new normal as we welcome four LCSs to the region in the coming years. Deployment of multiple LCSs to Southeast Asia underscores the importance of this 'region on the rise' and the value persistent presence brings."
> 
> Fort Worth is the second LCS to deploy to U.S. 7th Fleet as part of an initiative to simultaneously deploy up to four LCS to the Indo-Asia-Pacific region in just a few years. The third and fourth LCSs are planned to arrive in 2016, when the region will see two of these ships deployed at the same time.
> 
> Fort Worth is also the first LCS to deploy under the "3-2-1" manning concept, which allows LCS to sustain a 16-month rotational presence without fatiguing the crew during the extended deployment, which is twice as long as typical U.S. Navy ship deployments. It is named 3-2-1 because three rotational crews will support two LCS ships, one of which is deployed. Future LCS deployments to the region will employ this concept, allowing for enhanced U.S. Navy presence throughout the Indo-Asia-Pacific.
> 
> While operating in international waters and airspace near the Spratly's, Fort Worth conducted flight operations with its MQ-8B Fire Scout unmanned aircraft system and MH-60R Seahawk helicopter. Fort Worth encountered multiple People's Liberation Army-Navy [PLA(N)] warships, each time taking the opportunity to use the Code for Unplanned Encounters at Sea (CUES).
> 
> "Just like our first meeting in February with a PLA(N) warship, guided-missile frigate Hengshui (FFG 572), our interactions with Chinese ships continue to be professional and CUES helps clarify intentions and prevent miscommunication," said Cmdr. Matt Kawas, Fort Worth Crew 103 commanding officer.
> 
> Following the brief stop for fuel in the Philippines, Fort Worth will return to Singapore for the International Maritime Defense Exhibition and Conference (IMDEX) 2015 just ahead of the second crew swap in late May.
> 
> Throughout the summer and fall, Fort Worth will take part in most of the 2015 CARAT exercise series. In its 21st year, CARAT is an annual, bilateral exercise series with the U.S. Navy, U.S. Marine Corps and the armed forces of nine partner nations including, Bangladesh, Brunei, Cambodia, Indonesia, Malaysia, the Republic of the Philippines, Singapore, Thailand and Timor-Leste.
> 
> During February and March, Fort Worth participated in the annual U.S.-Republic of Korea exercise Foal Eagle and conducted a maintenance availability in Sasebo, Japan, expanding LCS' operational reach to Northeast Asia for the first time. Following the availability, Fort Worth returned to Southeast Asia where she took part in the sixth-annual Naval Engagement (NEA) Vietnam with the Vietnam People's Navy (VPN) in April, spending a day operating at-sea with the VPN.
> 
> "We've made great strides in terms of LCS' operational potential in a short period of time," said Kacher. "With the regular and routine presence of LCS here, we are far better able to spend the time and resources required to build regional maritime capacity, helping to achieve the 'Network of Navies' outlined in the Navy's newly-released maritime strategy."
> 
> Fast, agile and mission-focused, littoral combat ships are designed to operate in near-shore environments and employ modular mission packages that can be configured for surface warfare, mine countermeasures or anti-submarine warfare.
> 
> Fort Worth will employ the surface warfare (SUW) mission package for her entire deployment, augmenting her 57mm gun and rolling airframe missile launcher with two 30mm guns, two 11-meter rigid-hull inflatable boats, and two six-member maritime security boarding teams. Enhancing the SUW mission package is the embarked aviation detachment from Helicopter Maritime Squadron (HSM) 35, the Navy's first composite expeditionary helicopter squadron, which consists of one Sea Hawk helicopter and one Fire Scout.
> 
> The U.S. 7th Fleet conducts forward-deployed naval operations in support of U.S. national interests in the Indo-Asia-Pacific area of operations. As the U.S. Navy's largest numbered fleet, U.S. 7th Fleet interacts with 35 other maritime nations to build partnerships that foster maritime security, promote stability and prevent conflict.
> 
> Fort Worth Completes South China Sea Patrol







LOL! I prefer seeing this myself.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Transhumanist

Nihonjin1051 said:


> LOL! I prefer seeing this myself.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Aepsilons

Transhumanist said:


>





What's not to love about this? This is like a navy guy's attractive piece, its HOT HOT. The Rising Sun, with the Stars and Stripes, big metal ships, missiles, macho men armed to the teeth.


SEXY!

LOL!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Transhumanist

Nihonjin1051 said:


> What's not to love about this?



Good food too! Testosterone, meat, heavy-metal, explosions... what's not to love about the Navy?






@SvenSvensonov - did you ever partake in such enjoyment?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## F-22Raptor

US and Malaysia operating in the SCS

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Transhumanist

Nihonjin1051 said:


> What's not to love about this? This is like a navy guy's attractive piece, its HOT HOT. The Rising Sun, with the Stars and Stripes, big metal ships, missiles, macho men armed to the teeth.
> 
> LOL!



Do you have any military experience? I served 4 years in the Royal Norwegian Air Force, as part of a SAR (mostly maritime search and rescue) unit.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Aepsilons

Transhumanist said:


> Good food too! Testosterone, meat, heavy-metal, explosions... what's not to love about the Navy?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @SvenSvensonov - did you ever partake in such enjoyment?



Hahaha, i think Sven did serve in a sub, so there's a high chance he also did "shark duty" LOL!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Transhumanist

Nihonjin1051 said:


> "shark duty" LOL!



 What a wimp. In the Sjøforsvaret we don't tend to get south enough to encounter sharks, though I'd like to see some Norwegian Ula's in Japan sometime:






Typically duties like "shark duty" were reserved for the sailors that didn't like to swim.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Keel

Zero_wing said:


> Wow just wow look at a hole making things worse am filipino
> 
> we here are talking about Philippine Japanese relations on defense matter your just trolling and the fact is maority of what we filipino members say in this forum is true we have no reasons to lie and what we gain from that! for one thing you people are the only liers here talking about crap you have no real evidence just back talk and hot air arrogance of your racial superiority again you people are just arrogant and full of crap again leave your trolling nonsense is not welcome here if you dont i just counter you again you have been warned!



tsk tsk tsk
This is an open forum

You are not Pinoys and try hard to meddle into the SCS affairs
It is not worth answering to you troll until you ID where you're from





Chinese fine ink and brush painting

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Aepsilons

Transhumanist said:


> Do you have any military experience? I served 4 years in the Royal Norwegian Air Force, as part of a SAR (mostly maritime search and rescue) unit.




Yes, buddy, I was an Officer in the Japanese Maritime Self Defense Force, served in the JDS Chokai and attached to the 1st Escort Fleet , as well as did some time in Fleet Intelligence Command.

Technically speaking, i'm still 'in service' as I'm doing post-graduate studies in the 'states through JSDF funding. If I were to decide to go back to Japan, I would consider re-enlisting again in Fleet Intelligence Command. I would be a mid level officer. 



Transhumanist said:


> What a wimp. In the Sjøforsvaret we don't tend to get south enough to encounter sharks, though I'd like to see some Norwegian Ula's in Japan sometime:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Typically duties like "shark duty" were reserved for the sailors that didn't like to swim.





buahahahaha!



Ever jumped / dived into the ocean from the stern of the ship off Tinian Island?

Its fun, until you are told that there are Bull Sharks around. LOL!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Transhumanist

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Yes, buddy, I was an Officer in the Japanese Maritime Self Defense Force, served in the JDS Chokai and attached to the 1st Escort Fleet , as well as did some time in Fleet Intelligence Command.



Fleet intelligence? I often get told that's an oxymoron. After conversing with you, I think the people telling me that are just normal morons.



Nihonjin1051 said:


> Ever jumped / dived into the ocean from the stern of the ship off Tinian Island?



I wish! Ever tried jumping from a helo into Arctic waters to rescue a distressed person? I was the unfortunate bloke sent down to "pick up" the distressed person:

(sorry, I don't have any pics of a Norwegian helo for this)











Of course it's what I signed up for, so I'm not exactly complaining. But sharks and warm beaches (and a fruity drink or two) would have been a nice change of pace.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Aepsilons

Transhumanist said:


> Fleet intelligence? I often get told that an oxymoron. After conversing with you, I think the people telling me that are just normal morons.




Hahahaha! Well one of the reasons why I love fleet command is because of the 'relaxed' atmosphere. As compared to other areas in the JMSDF. In fleet intelligence command, my role was in regional analysis, and interpretation. I was sent to the Philippines multiple times and took immersion courses there --- as you may know the Japanese Navy (JMSDF) is keen on increasing communication between Japanese and our vital partners in the region ; Philippines, Indonesia, Malaysia, Vietnam, Thailand. 

Id love to explain more, but i don't want to divulge too much information. 



Transhumanist said:


> I wish, ever tried jumping from a helo into Arctic waters to rescue a distressed person? I was the unfortunate bloke shy was sent down to "pick up" the distressed person:




Never had the privilege of partaking in such a mission, my friend. But knowing your background now, I have an even greater respect for you , as i have with all naval rapid reaction teams. Hats off to you, my Nordic Brother.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Transhumanist

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Hats off to you, my Nordic Brother.



Thank you and . *looks down at chest*

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Aepsilons

Transhumanist said:


> Thank you and . *looks down at chest*




LOL!

Ha ha ha.........


ehem.


----------



## SvenSvensonov

Transhumanist said:


> Good food too! Testosterone, meat, heavy-metal, explosions... what's not to love about the Navy?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @SvenSvensonov - did you ever partake in such enjoyment?



I'm a vegetarian, and @Nihonjin1051 was right, shark duty with an M21 (M14) was my job. You could find me in the tower, not on the deck. 

I'm a wimp.



Nihonjin1051 said:


> LOL!
> 
> Ha ha ha.........
> 
> 
> ehem.



Did you forget my Norwegian friend is a "Sister?"

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Srinivas

Beidou2020 said:


> When you can actually stop China building in the SCS, then lets talk.
> 
> Until then, these are hot air warnings that no one cares.



Stupidity is infinity .... arguments and logic do not work infront of that !


----------



## Aepsilons

SvenSvensonov said:


> I'm a vegetarian, and @Nihonjin1051 was right, shark duty with an M21 (M14) was my job. You could find me in the tower, not on the deck.
> 
> I'm a wimp.
> 
> 
> 
> Did you forget my Norwegian friend is a "Sister?"





All this time i thought that she was a guy. I'll be extra considerate next time in what i say around her.


----------



## Huan

LordTyrannus said:


> see the bigger picture. usa is the most imperialistic country in the world and they are feeding china with poison like capitalist thoughts of growing and expanding. china never was an imperialistic power and never will be.


@LordTyrannus and @russiarussia , that is an extremely ironic remark since Russia took away *Outer Mongolia* and *Outer Manchuria* from China and force her to sign Unequal Treaties during the Century of Humiliation. You should know what your people did. Don't be a darn hypocrite, you Russians are not innocent of anything of what you did to China from the north. Russia was also expanding all the way to the Far East and to the coast of Alaska and is the largest country in the world. That is imperialism in plain sight.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Transhumanist

Nihonjin1051 said:


> I'll be extra considerate next time in what i say around her.



Oh, I wouldn't bother with that. I'm just as lewd, crude and sometimes dumb as anyone else here (except for when I'm not). You did see my coconuts, right?


----------



## Aepsilons

Transhumanist said:


> Oh, I wouldn't bother with that. I'm just as lewd, crude and sometimes dumb as anyone else here (except for when I'm not). You did see my coconuts, right?




he he he, yes I saw your coconuts, Ma'am. 





_....hara ga hetta...._

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## LordTyrannus

Huan said:


> @LordTyrannus and @russiarussia , that is an extremely ironic remark since Russia took away *Outer Mongolia* and *Outer Manchuria* from China and force her to sign Unequal Treaties during the Century of Humiliation. You should know what your people did. Don't be a darn hypocrite, you Russians are not innocent of anything of what you did to China from the north. Russia was also expanding all the way to the Far East and to the coast of Alaska and is the largest country in the world. That is imperialism in plain sight.



You are not an chinese anymore. China is none of your bussiness. Nobody took anything from you. you are an american.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## jackmars

LordTyrannus said:


> You are not an chinese anymore. China is none of your bussiness. Nobody took anything from you. you are an american.


there are many troll here, someone can talk chinese does not mean he is chinese, thereare 2.5 billions people are learning chinese in world today



Huan said:


> @LordTyrannus and @russiarussia , that is an extremely ironic remark since Russia took away *Outer Mongolia* and *Outer Manchuria* from China and force her to sign Unequal Treaties during the Century of Humiliation. You should know what your people did. Don't be a darn hypocrite, you Russians are not innocent of anything of what you did to China from the north. Russia was also expanding all the way to the Far East and to the coast of Alaska and is the largest country in the world. That is imperialism in plain sight.


 technically, outer Manchuria is not really a solid part of china in history, that land belongs to local native tribes, not really part of china.


----------



## Elkanah

I'm not Chinese I am a descent of slaves in the Caribbean my hope and indeed prayer is that China ( the only possible nation that can) will challenge and God willing change the fact that all men on this planet must be subordinate and acquiescence to an international order that specifically designed to in ensure that all western interest should be held as sacrosanct over the nations of the earth. This is the only reason I support China and offer my prayers to ENFORCE a multipolar world

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Huan

LordTyrannus said:


> You are not an chinese anymore. China is none of your bussiness. Nobody took anything from you. you are an american.


And China is none of your business as well, greedy Russian bear.


----------



## jackmars

Zero_wing said:


> Man more chinese harassments


it sounds more like american harassments in everywhere across all world ,including south china sea


----------



## Huan

jackmars said:


> there are many troll here, someone can talk chinese does not mean he is chinese, thereare 2.5 billions people are learning chinese in world today
> 
> 
> technically, outer Manchuria is not really a solid part of china in history, that land belongs to local native tribes, not really part of china.


And not really part of Russia naturally until the Russians took it by force from China.


----------



## jackmars

Huan said:


> And not really part of Russia naturally until the Russians took it by force from China.


actually none of both countries, it belongs to local natives, just like america , canada, aussie, nz all belong to local natives, also like okinawa , its not part of japan, it belong to local natives



Elkanah said:


> I'm not Chinese I am a descent of slaves in the Caribbean my hope and indeed prayer is that China ( the only possible nation that can) will challenge and God willing change the fact that all men on this planet must be subordinate and acquiescence to an international order that specifically designed to in ensure that all western interest should be held as sacrosanct over the nations of the earth. This is the only reason I support China and offer my prayers to ENFORCE a multipolar world


dont worry too much, america and its little dogs for example japan are all dying fast on their broke *** , so you will see that change very soon

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TaiShang

JayMandan said:


> ^Lol at warmongering rhetoric and bull talking. Your people are the ones who invaded this thread with such attitude. If you're jealous about our countries love affair then say it, otherwise post something relevant and with a little bit of RESPECT.



But still you will not get the war you itch for unless you shoot first. Or convince one of the sugar daddies to do the job for you. 

Rhetoric does not change the reality on the ground. 

Billions of people called the US the great satan imperialist, hegemon etc. That did not move a hair on the US regime's back. And when someone finally brought the war to them, the regime responded by killing at a heroic ratio.

US brings the war to people's door steps at times. But you know China masters in time consciousness. You will be outdone.


----------



## BoQ77

F-22Raptor said:


> *Fort Worth Completes South China Sea Patrol
> *
> Littoral combat ship USS Fort Worth (LCS 3) arrived here to resupply May 13 after a weeklong routine patrol in international waters and airspace of the South China Sea near the Spratly Islands.
> 
> While Fort Worth has transited the South China Sea many times, this patrol marks the first time an LCS has operated in international waters near the Spratlys.
> 
> "As part of our strategic rebalance to bring our newest and most capable Navy platforms to the Indo-Asia-Pacific, LCS now has a regular presence in Southeast Asia," said Capt. Fred Kacher, commodore, Destroyer Squadron (DESRON) 7. "Routine operations like the one Fort Worth just completed in the South China Sea will be the new normal as we welcome four LCSs to the region in the coming years. Deployment of multiple LCSs to Southeast Asia underscores the importance of this 'region on the rise' and the value persistent presence brings."
> 
> Fort Worth is the second LCS to deploy to U.S. 7th Fleet as part of an initiative to simultaneously deploy up to four LCS to the Indo-Asia-Pacific region in just a few years. The third and fourth LCSs are planned to arrive in 2016, when the region will see two of these ships deployed at the same time.
> 
> Fort Worth is also the first LCS to deploy under the "3-2-1" manning concept, which allows LCS to sustain a 16-month rotational presence without fatiguing the crew during the extended deployment, which is twice as long as typical U.S. Navy ship deployments. It is named 3-2-1 because three rotational crews will support two LCS ships, one of which is deployed. Future LCS deployments to the region will employ this concept, allowing for enhanced U.S. Navy presence throughout the Indo-Asia-Pacific.
> 
> While operating in international waters and airspace near the Spratly's, Fort Worth conducted flight operations with its MQ-8B Fire Scout unmanned aircraft system and MH-60R Seahawk helicopter. Fort Worth encountered multiple People's Liberation Army-Navy [PLA(N)] warships, each time taking the opportunity to use the Code for Unplanned Encounters at Sea (CUES).
> 
> "Just like our first meeting in February with a PLA(N) warship, guided-missile frigate Hengshui (FFG 572), our interactions with Chinese ships continue to be professional and CUES helps clarify intentions and prevent miscommunication," said Cmdr. Matt Kawas, Fort Worth Crew 103 commanding officer.
> 
> Following the brief stop for fuel in the Philippines, Fort Worth will return to Singapore for the International Maritime Defense Exhibition and Conference (IMDEX) 2015 just ahead of the second crew swap in late May.
> 
> Throughout the summer and fall, Fort Worth will take part in most of the 2015 CARAT exercise series. In its 21st year, CARAT is an annual, bilateral exercise series with the U.S. Navy, U.S. Marine Corps and the armed forces of nine partner nations including, Bangladesh, Brunei, Cambodia, Indonesia, Malaysia, the Republic of the Philippines, Singapore, Thailand and Timor-Leste.
> 
> During February and March, Fort Worth participated in the annual U.S.-Republic of Korea exercise Foal Eagle and conducted a maintenance availability in Sasebo, Japan, expanding LCS' operational reach to Northeast Asia for the first time. Following the availability, Fort Worth returned to Southeast Asia where she took part in the sixth-annual Naval Engagement (NEA) Vietnam with the Vietnam People's Navy (VPN) in April, spending a day operating at-sea with the VPN.
> 
> "We've made great strides in terms of LCS' operational potential in a short period of time," said Kacher. "With the regular and routine presence of LCS here, we are far better able to spend the time and resources required to build regional maritime capacity, helping to achieve the 'Network of Navies' outlined in the Navy's newly-released maritime strategy."
> 
> Fast, agile and mission-focused, littoral combat ships are designed to operate in near-shore environments and employ modular mission packages that can be configured for surface warfare, mine countermeasures or anti-submarine warfare.
> 
> Fort Worth will employ the surface warfare (SUW) mission package for her entire deployment, augmenting her 57mm gun and rolling airframe missile launcher with two 30mm guns, two 11-meter rigid-hull inflatable boats, and two six-member maritime security boarding teams. Enhancing the SUW mission package is the embarked aviation detachment from Helicopter Maritime Squadron (HSM) 35, the Navy's first composite expeditionary helicopter squadron, which consists of one Sea Hawk helicopter and one Fire Scout.
> 
> The U.S. 7th Fleet conducts forward-deployed naval operations in support of U.S. national interests in the Indo-Asia-Pacific area of operations. As the U.S. Navy's largest numbered fleet, U.S. 7th Fleet interacts with 35 other maritime nations to build partnerships that foster maritime security, promote stability and prevent conflict.
> 
> Fort Worth Completes South China Sea Patrol



We worry about chance USS Fort Worth would be intercepted by PLAN ship near Spratlys


----------



## Zero_wing

jackmars said:


> actually none of both countries, it belongs to local natives, just like america , canada, aussie, nz all belong to local natives, also like okinawa , its not part of japan, it belong to local natives
> 
> 
> dont worry too much, america and its little dogs for example japan are all dying fast on their broke *** , so you will see that change very soon



Nice pic at least your honest about being racist bigot love the pic SS or panzergrender or just normal german army?


----------



## BoQ77

SOUTH CHINA SEA (May 8, 2015) The guided-missile cruiser USS Bunker Hill (CG 52) and Malaysian frigate KD Lekir (FSG 26) participate in a bi-lateral training exercise, aimed at developing and expanding bi-lateral exercises with the Malaysian Royal Navy. The Carl Vinson Strike Group is deployed to U.S. 7th Fleet area of operations supporting security and stability in the Indo-Asia-Pacific region.


----------



## BoQ77

cnleio said:


> 05.11 South China Sea near Spratly Island, USN LCS-3 lead the way, behind PLAN type054A FFG following it.
> 
> View attachment 220960
> 
> View attachment 220961
> 
> View attachment 220962
> 
> View attachment 220963



Can everybody tell me what difference between two of above? which is bigger? which is flexible ? which is faster?


----------



## Zero_wing

TaiShang said:


> But still you will not get the war you itch for unless you shoot first. Or convince one of the sugar daddies to do the job for you.
> 
> Rhetoric does not change the reality on the ground.
> 
> Billions of people called the US the great satan imperialist, hegemon etc. That did not move a hair on the US regime's back. And when someone finally brought the war to them, the regime responded by killing at a heroic ratio.
> 
> US brings the war to people's door steps at times. But you know China masters in time consciousness. You will be outdone.



What war since when did the Philippines ask for war? are you high ? the only thing china is master of is back talk and lying and stealing and as for undone who made more enemies today and disputes with all of its neighbors again if anyone is going to start anything its china you cant even go to the proper forums like ITCLOS to prove your claims and your mindset are still in dark ages so stop with fire brinestone act your not the victim here for one the Philippines is the victim here your arrogance has destory most fishing grounds in west philippines sea corals and giant clams take long to grow


----------



## jackmars

Zero_wing said:


> Nice pic at least your honest about being racist bigot love the pic SS or panzergrender or just normal german army?


racist? so you are racial to German? dont forget you are just a poor *** pinoy, probably all asia are racial to your backward people, let alone any white people



BoQ77 said:


> Can everybody tell me what difference between two of above? which is bigger? which is flexible ? which is faster?


american ship is smaller, chinese ships are way bigger, american ship is faster, so it run away faster



Zero_wing said:


> What war since when did the Philippines ask for war? are you high ? the only thing china is master of is back talk and lying and stealing and as for undone who made more enemies today and disputes with all of its neighbors again if anyone is going to start anything its china you cant even go to the proper forums like ITCLOS to prove your claims and your mindset are still in dark ages so stop with fire brinestone act your not the victim here for one the Philippines is the victim here your arrogance has destory most fishing grounds in west philippines sea corals and giant clams take long to grow



what war you pinoy ask for? lots of war, you pinoy thieves ask for war with taiwan, you shot taiwanese fisherman to death in south china sea, when taiwanese navy come, you pinoy pee your pants, you pinoy ask for war with maylasia and had clash with malay army last year and got your sorry weak axxx kicked by them, you pinoy thieves arrest viet fishboats and ask for war with vietnam, you pinoy theives stole island from china, taiwan, vietnam, maylasia, and ask for war with everybody,

and speaking of stealing, lying and ask for troubling and deluding, you pinoys are world champion , the thief of thief, liar of liar

also speaking of trouble maker, you pinoy thieves have dispute with all your neibours, with china, with taiwan, with vietnam ,with malaysia, with everybody, you dirty thief.

also speakiing of ITCLOS , its just a worthless full tool made up with westerners and Japanese and controlled by the west, the court head is a japaanese, so why china should go to an court controlled by her enemy, huh? you deluded pinoy liar, japan also ask korea to go to itclos for their dispute island in sea of japan, ,but south korea refused because they know japanese would manipulated the court , you ignorant dirty pinoy liar, thats why only dirty thief country like japan or your pinoy thiefland go to ITCLOS,


----------



## BoQ77

*Vietnam welcome the U.S. to maintain peace in East Vietnam Sea*
MAY 14, 2015 


Vietnam welcomes all efforts of the international community, including the U.S., to maintain peace, stability, cooperation and development in the East Vietnam Sea, said Le Hai Binh, spokesman of the Vietnam’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs, during the regular press conference on May 14 in Hanoi.





Binh added that Vietnam is keeping a close watch on the oil rig Haiyang Shiyou 981of the state-owned China National Petroleum Corporation, which is working in the sea.

“The maintenance of peace, stability, security and maritime safety is the expectations and the common benefits of nations in and out of the region.

“Relevant sides must solve disputes with peaceful measures and in conformance to international laws, especially the UNCLOS 1982 and the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the East Vietnam Sea (DOC) with a vision to the Code of Conduct of Parties in the East Vietnam Sea.

*Being asked about the plan of the U.S. to dispatch warships and war planes to artificial islands of China in Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelago, Binh said, “We want all relevant parties and nations in and out of the region to actively contribute to maintain peace, stability, security, and maritime safety.

“We want the parties not to complicate the situation in the East Sea.

“All activities of parties must obey to international laws and respect the sovereignty of coastal nations in the East Sea.”*

About the moving of the oil rig Haiyang Shiyou 981in the East Sea, the Vietnam Marine Police High Command confirmed to _Tuoi Tre _that, “The oil rig HYSY-981 and other oil rigs are now working in the maritime territory of China.

The force is well prepared for the protection of the maritime sovereignty of Vietnam, according to the police.


----------



## jackmars

BoQ77 said:


> *Vietnam welcome the U.S. to maintain peace in East Vietnam Sea*
> MAY 14, 2015
> 
> 
> Vietnam welcomes all efforts of the international community, including the U.S., to maintain peace, stability, cooperation and development in the East Vietnam Sea, said Le Hai Binh, spokesman of the Vietnam’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs, during the regular press conference on May 14 in Hanoi.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Binh added that Vietnam is keeping a close watch on the oil rig Haiyang Shiyou 981of the state-owned China National Petroleum Corporation, which is working in the sea.
> 
> “The maintenance of peace, stability, security and maritime safety is the expectations and the common benefits of nations in and out of the region.
> 
> “Relevant sides must solve disputes with peaceful measures and in conformance to international laws, especially the UNCLOS 1982 and the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the East Vietnam Sea (DOC) with a vision to the Code of Conduct of Parties in the East Vietnam Sea.
> 
> *Being asked about the plan of the U.S. to dispatch warships and war planes to artificial islands of China in Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelago, Binh said, “We want all relevant parties and nations in and out of the region to actively contribute to maintain peace, stability, security, and maritime safety.
> 
> “We want the parties not to complicate the situation in the East Sea.
> 
> “All activities of parties must obey to international laws and respect the sovereignty of coastal nations in the East Sea.”*
> 
> About the moving of the oil rig Haiyang Shiyou 981in the East Sea, the Vietnam Marine Police High Command confirmed to _Tuoi Tre _that, “The oil rig HYSY-981 and other oil rigs are now working in the maritime territory of China.
> 
> The force is well prepared for the protection of the maritime sovereignty of Vietnam, according to the police.



i think vietnam also welcomes vietnam war, you guys like foreingers


----------



## Zero_wing

jackmars said:


> racist? so you are racial to German? dont forget you are just a poor *** pinoy, probably all asia are racial to your backward people, let alone any white people
> 
> 
> american ship is smaller, chinese ships are way bigger, american ship is faster, so it run away faster
> 
> 
> 
> what war you pinoy ask for? lots of war, you pinoy thieves ask for war with taiwan, you shot taiwanese fisherman to death in south china sea, when taiwanese navy come, you pinoy pee your pants, you pinoy ask for war with maylasia and had clash with malay army last year and got your sorry weak axxx kicked by them, you pinoy thieves arrest viet fishboats and ask for war with vietnam, you pinoy theives stole island from china, taiwan, vietnam, maylasia, and ask for war with everybody,
> 
> and speaking of stealing, lying and ask for troubling and deluding, you pinoys are world champion , the thief of thief, liar of liar
> 
> also speaking of trouble maker, you pinoy thieves have dispute with all your neibours, with china, with taiwan, with vietnam ,with malaysia, with everybody, you dirty thief.
> 
> also speakiing of ITCLOS , its just a worthless full tool made up with westerners and Japanese and controlled by the west, the court head is a japaanese, so why china should go to an court controlled by her enemy, huh? you deluded pinoy liar, japan also ask korea to go to itclos for their dispute island in sea of japan, ,but south korea refused because they know japanese would manipulated the court , you ignorant dirty pinoy liar, thats why only dirty thief country like japan or your pinoy thiefland go to ITCLOS,



Question how can we be thieves in our waters? were is taewan and batenes province? did you hear Filipino firshermen going to taewan? since when you arrogant racist tugs are always talking crap without thinking because what? your bigger and large economy and really can taewan affored to lose friends over this? and for your info its china and chinamen in general who have disputes with all of its neigbouring countries not us did you here us building islands out of reefs and shoals no! or having huge budget for war hell no! and in fact we are the only one country here to follow all of the agree uppon agreements and the moral courage to go to ITCLOS and risking our own claims for world peace and yet china ignores all this peaceful means to solve the problem because they know they have no standing what so ever and taewan is just country that only few recognized heck you dont even know if you people would push for independence or just be called china 2 you people are arrogant racist SOB no different from you mainlander counterparts and your post shows your lack of humanity you dont even have the respect to call me Filipino name calling and as for accusation of courts impartiality prove it! or name calling is all you people ever good for and as for your other acusations really why would i lie what in gods name would that serve? and the most funny qoute was me being ignorant ya this coming from a guy who arrogant people claim a whole sea as its own and creating islands out of reefs and shoals destroying nature in the process all just to prove a illogical stupid claim? man ikaw na magaling magaling na CUp@l siguro! arrogante hy@yop



jackmars said:


> racist? so you are racial to German? dont forget you are just a poor *** pinoy, probably all asia are racial to your backward people, let alone any white people
> 
> No you chinese neo nazi i was asking about the picture is that SS or just wehrmacht? if its SS it totally fits you like a glove.


----------



## BoQ77

Zero_wing said:


> Question how can we be thieves in our waters? were is taewan and batenes province? did you hear Filipino firshermen going to taewan? since when you arrogant racist tugs are always talking crap without thinking because what? your bigger and large economy and really can taewan affored to lose friends over this? and for your info its china and chinamen in general who have disputes with all of its neigbouring countries not us did you here us building islands out of reefs and shoals no! or having huge budget for war hell no! and in fact we are the only one country here to follow all of the agree uppon agreements and the moral courage to go to ITCLOS and risking our own claims for world peace and yet china ignores all this peaceful means to solve the problem because they know they have no standing what so ever and taewan is just country that only few recognized heck you dont even know if you people would push for independence or just be called china 2 you people are arrogant racist SOB no different from you mainlander counterparts and your post shows your lack of humanity you dont even have the respect to call me Filipino name calling and as for accusation of courts impartiality prove it! or name calling is all you people ever good for and as for your other acusations really why would i lie what in gods name would that serve? and the most funny qoute was me being ignorant ya this coming from a guy who arrogant people claim a whole sea as its own and creating islands out of reefs and shoals destroying nature in the process all just to prove a illogical stupid claim? man ikaw na magaling magaling na CUp@l siguro! arrogante hy@yop



The victim and the killer can't have the fairness.
That's why we need the police, court.

Without the referee, the winner in any football match would be the most aggressive, strongest.
Thanks to referee, there're fair games.


----------



## Zero_wing

Well the arrogant fools are already in court for their crimes agansit the Filipino people so i leave the courts to handle it. Man i tell you this racist arrogant SOBs are pain in the behind can you believe in this day in age we still have racist arrogant D bags among us this people are just the worse of humanity his picture does fits him the SS were one of the worse war criminals in world war 2


----------



## 70U63

Zero_wing said:


> Well the arrogant fools are already in court for their crimes agansit the Filipino people so i leave the courts to handle it. Man i tell you this racist arrogant SOBs are pain in the behind can you believe in this day in age we still have racist arrogant D bags among us this people are just the worse of humanity his picture does fits him the SS were one of the worse war criminals in world war 2


That's why you need to be smart and learn to play the game (SG as an example).
The bigger and more powerful countries have more cards on their hand. They can afford not go through the court and no one can do anything.
I'm sure you knew these, but just don't want to admit it.


----------



## Nike

70U63 said:


> That's why you need to be smart and learn to play the game (SG as an example).
> The bigger and more powerful countries have more cards on their hand. They can afford not go through the court and no one can do anything.
> I'm sure you knew these, but just don't want to admit it.



if they are that smart Philippine surely had become the most advanced and industrialized country in ASEAN region, far before Thailand and Indonesia catch them in Industrial and economic output....


----------



## JayMandan

Smartness is out of the question. Our politicians are very smart. If you know what I mean!


----------



## cirr

The latest member of the Type 618B family - *CCG 35102*






chasing monkeys to the far corners of the world.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ahojunk

Some new pictures:-

*2015 May*




*Top - Chigua Island
Middle - Nanxun Island
Bottom - Huayang Island & Subi Island*

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## ahojunk

Recent pic of Subi Island, dated 11-May-2015.

The arrows are pointing to the original outpost.
Top picture is viewing towards the west. Bottom picture is viewing towards the east.






.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Hindustani78




----------



## ahojunk

Picture of Yongshu (Fiery Cross) Island. 
The runway is fast taking shape, my estimate is 75% completion, perhaps.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cirr

*CCG 2901* with main gun installed 






*CCG 3091*

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

*Asia Amphibious Forces Gathering Signals Nudge to China Containment*
By Tim Kelly on 08:12 pm May 20, 2015





Philippine and US marines prepare to land on a beach facing the South China Sea during an exercise in 2014. (AFP Photo/Ted Aljibe)

*Hickham Field, Hawaii.* Military commanders from Japan, Australia, the Philippines and 20 other mostly Asia-Pacific nations huddled around a large tactical map, poring over satellite images in readiness for an amphibious raid on Hawaii’s most populous island Oahu.

Although only a drill, it represented a glimpse of cooperation and integration among non-Chinese amphibious forces in Asia that the United States is belatedly encouraging.

A senior US official told Reuters the-first-of-its-kind gathering also signifies a nudge towards containing China, as Beijing grows increasingly assertive in pushing its territorial claims in the South China Sea.

The shift has left supporters of engagement with China “under pressure,” said the source, who declined to be identified because he was not authorized to speak to the media.

Early on Tuesday, the foreign amphibious commanders participating in the PACOM Amphibious Leaders Symposium (PALS), boarded Osprey tilt rotor aircraft at Hickam air base, near Honolulu, for a 20-minute ride over the tropical seas around Oahu to the amphibious assault ship USS Essex and other vessels for a demonstration of American marine muscle.

*“I don’t think China can match the complexity,” said Martin Sebastian, head of the Maritime Institute of Malaysia, in the hangar deck after a tour of the 40,000 ton, 266-meter Essex.*

A US spokesman said China was not invited to the meeting because doing so would have contravened a law prohibiting military-to-military exchanges with China at such events.

China joined in US-led Rim of the Pacific (RIMPAC) naval exercises last year with more than 20 countries, but was limited to things like humanitarian relief and search and rescue operations.

Tuesday’s exercise had only a military objective; to land a marine units on a beach by boat and helicopter and destroy the fictitious training camp of an insurgent group.

*Maritime tensions*

The drill, involving Ospreys, Harrier jump jet aircraft, armored vehicles, B-52 bombers and hovercraft, follows a two-day visit to China by US Secretary of State John Kerry that was dominated by concerns about Beijing’s territorial ambitions.

Recent Chinese reclamation work has stoked tensions in the South China Sea, where Beijing is building man-made islands around seven reefs in the Spratly archipelago that are also claimed by the Philippines and Vietnam.

*With a force of around 12,000 marines that it can rapidly expand in times of conflict, China, say military experts, represents a formidable potential foe.*

*The United States maintains a presence of some 80,000 troops, almost half its strength, in Asia, most on Japan’s Okinawa island at the edge of the East China Sea.*

Better integrating the amphibious operations of non-Chinese forces in the Asia-Pacific represents an arduous challenge. Capabilities vary from country to country, gear, including communications, is not interoperable and funding is scarce.

“Capabilities haven’t developed as quickly or as fully as they might,” said Grant Newsham, a former Marine liaison officer to Japan’s Ground Self Defense Force, who attended the meeting.

“The Symposium will hopefully coalesce these ongoing but somewhat disjointed efforts towards amphibious capability.”

Inter-regional rivalries are another hurdle to cooperation.

For example, one participant, who asked not to be identified, said cooperation between Japan and South Korea, which has about 25,000 marines, was impossible because Seoul might one day have to defend territory also claimed by Tokyo.

For some checking out the US military hardware, America’s enthusiasm to forge more capable amphibious forces in the region could provide a more immediate benefit by helping prepare for natural disasters such as super typhoon Haiyan, which killed more than 6,000 people in the Philippines 2013.

“It will help enhance the capability we should have,” said Alexander Lopez, a Philippine vice admiral. The US “is a big brother for the region.”

_Reuters_

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

Yongshu（Fiery Cross）Island Phase II？

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

12800-ton CCG 2901 begins sea trials：






CCG 3901 will follow suit shortly。

China needs to build a dozen of these beasts for humanitarian reasons。

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Economic superpower

cirr said:


> 12800-ton CCG 2901 begins sea trials：
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CCG 3901 will follow suit shortly。
> 
> China needs to build a dozen of these beasts for humanitarian reasons。



How many are in service currently?


----------



## ahojunk

With the new islands being developed in SCS, this new ship is a welcome addition.

--------------------------------------
New cruise ship to serve Xisha islands in South China Sea
2015-05-21 11:19 Xinhua Editor: Gu Liping





_The Xisha islands in the northwestern South China Sea comprise 45 islands, islets, reefs and beaches. As a shining pearl in the sea, the Xisha islands, along with the Dongsha islands, the Zhongsha islands and Nansha islands, are China's southernmost blue territory. (Xinhua/Zha Chunming)_

A new ship will serve the Xisha islands starting in October to promote cruise tourism on the South China Sea, according to the route's sole franchised shipping operator on Thursday.

According to the Hainan Strait Shipping Co., Ltd., the new cruise ship, Haisi Gongzhu, or the Princess of Marine Silk Road, is more comfortable than the current ship. The current vessel, Yexiang Gongzhu, or Scent of Princess Coconut, has completed 60 trips and served 8,000 tourists since the cruise route to Xisha was opened on April 28, 2013.

Ye Wei, deputy manager of the company, said the company has invested 150 million yuan (24 million U.S. dollars) in the new ship with a dead weight of 11,000 tonnes. It offers 500 passenger berths as well as catering and entertainment facilities.

The voyage to the Xisha Islands, a chain of islands scattered along the western part of the South China Sea, departs from the port in Sanya in the island province of Hainan.

Xisha, along with the Zhongsha and Nansha island groups and two million square kilometers of surrounding waters, are administered by China's southernmost and youngest city, Sansha, which was established in July 2012.

Xisha, famous for its beach scenery and pristine ecosystem, has great tourist appeal. The cruise allows tourists to sleep on board the ship and visit the islands of Yinyu, Quanfu and Yagong, where they can play beach volleyball, dive, fish and take photos.

The cruise lasts four days and three nights and can cost anywhere from 4,000 yuan to more than 10,000 yuan depending on accommodations on the current ship.
.


----------



## Viet

cirr said:


> 12800-ton CCG 2901 begins sea trials：
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CCG 3901 will follow suit shortly。
> 
> China needs to build a dozen of these beasts for humanitarian reasons。


in the above post 8463, you want to chase the monkeys. now for humanitarian reasons.
what is your decision? pick one.

let me ask our mod @Hu Songshan


----------



## ahojunk

cirr said:


> Yongshu（Fiery Cross）Island Phase II？


@cirr

I don't seem to be able to display this picture.

I keep getting timeouts.

Any chance of you re-upload?

Many thanks in advance.


----------



## ahojunk

I am pretty sure these are recent pictures of Chigua (Johnson South) Island.






A closer view of the building.





This building has 9 storeys or levels, big enough to be a hotel with casino to cater for tourism.




.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Globenim

What happens when storms and big waves come by? Will the airstrip be swamped?


----------



## cirr

*CCG 44104*






*CCG 46104*






Another twin-hull(the far side of Type 056) launched


----------



## ahojunk

Progress at Meiji Island from 14 April to 22 May 2015. 
In a space of 5 weeks, there is a lot of progress. Work has started on the east side.
This is going to be the biggest island in the SCS.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

ahojunk said:


> Progress at Meiji Island from 14 April to 22 May 2015.
> In a space of 5 weeks, there is a lot of progress. Work has started on the east side.
> This is going to be the biggest island in the SCS.
> 
> View attachment 224065
> 
> 
> View attachment 224066



Full steam ahead？


----------



## Christopher_ZJ

Huan said:


> And China is none of your business as well, greedy Russian bear.


No, he can actually be recognized as a close friend of Chinese. As for you, son of Uncle Sam, is an enemy to Chinese.



Nihonjin1051 said:


> LOL! I prefer seeing this myself.


Master Sam and his little puppy. LOL...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Namin

I try to understand Chinese 9 dash line but I can not. Maybe only Chinese are smart enough to understand
China claims that they own the sea inside 9 dash line from Han dynasty but just 200 years ago, when we are at the sea, we can not know exactly where we are. So even we are right above the 9 dash line, we also don't know. In the ground, people can use some marks to specify the borderline but in the sea, we cannot without modern technology. However China claimed based on Historic evidences from two thousands years ago.
China also don't explain why inside the 9 dash line, there were Chinese Historic activities but outside the 9 dash line there were not. Coordinates of each dot was also not clear.
And importantly just 200 years ago, Even If Chinese Emperor went to the sea, He also didn't know where are the positions of that imagined borderline. Even Zheng Hua crossed over that imagined borderline, he also can not recognize. 
Remember that we only know where we are in the sea to respect the EEZ with the help of modern GPS. That's why there was no concept of sea borderline in the past.
Only Chinese think they can specify a borderline in the sea from hundreds years ago.


----------



## ahojunk

China is building two lighthouses on Huayang (Cuateron) Island and Chigua (Johnson South) Island, to improve the navigation safety in the South China Sea.

These lighthouses will help in marine navigation, warn of danger in unseen low lying submerged reefs and complement the GPS/Beidou systems.

I have lifted the pics from the CCTV news bulletin.


----------



## cirr

China's White Fleet：

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## monitor



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ahojunk

More pictures. They were taken around 28-May-2015. Enjoy!

Meiji (Mischief) Island. Reclamation has started on the eastern fringe. Cloud covering the southern fringe.





Huayang (Cuateron) Island. The harbor is being developed. Lots of construction on the island. 





Yongshu (Fiery Cross) Island. The airstrip is complete!





Subi Island. The western fringe is long enough to host another airstrip.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

*CCG 46016*（left）launched 






A new force in the SCS。


----------



## cirr

*CCG 46305*


----------



## ahojunk

I stumbled on some pictures of Taiping Island, but they were taken in 6-Aug-2014.

This pic shows the on-going harbour construction.





Close up view of the harbour.





Progress between 18 April and 6 August 2014.


----------



## 70U63

OMG, the Chinese is coming ;
Nothing much we can do; you see me i see u 

_China has been detected encroaching on Malaysian waters at the Luconia Shoals, which are known as Gugusan Beting Patinggi Ali, located just 84 nautical miles from the coast here.
It is understood that a Chinese Coast Guard vessel has been anchored in the area for about two years._

China Coast Guard vessel found at Luconia Shoals – BorneoPost Online | Borneo , Malaysia, Sarawak Daily News | Largest English Daily In Borneo

OK, back to trolling, not me but is Aquino... 
I believe he made the same comment some time ago, and still repeat the same thing because nothing much he can do.

_The Philippine president has likened present-day China to Nazi Germany, hinting that the world cannot continue to appease Beijing as it claims ever more territory in the South China Sea._

_Benigno Aquino’s comments – made during a speech in Japan – came as disquiet grows over the quickening pace of China’s land reclamation programme in international waters, including its construction of a runway long enough for large military planes._

_“If there was a vacuum, if the United States, which is the superpower, says ‘we are not interested’, perhaps there is no brake to ambitions of other countries,” he told an audience of business leaders in Tokyo._

_“I’m an amateur student of history and I’m reminded of ... how Germany was testing the waters and what the response was by various other European powers,” he said, referring to the Nazis’ territorial conquests in the months before the outbreak of the second world war._

China behaving like Nazi Germany in South China Sea, says Benigno Aquino | World news | The Guardian


----------



## 70U63

*Luconia Shoals*




Luconia Shoals - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

To stop others trolling:
Fact 1: China Coast Guards are there for the last two years.
Fact 2: Miri (A coastal city in Sarawak, Malaysia) has been organised fishing contest in that shoal for the last 9 years.
... No Issue between Malaysia and China.

_A total of 142 anglers from 12 countries took part in the 9th Miri City Internation Deep Sea Fish Tournament held at the Luconia Shoal, in the South China Sea.
The event which started from 23 to 26 April saw anglers from Malaysia, Brunei, Norway, Singapore, People's Republic of China, the United Kingdon, Australia, Italy, India, Germany, Hong Kong, and the Netherlands competing against one another to win their fair share of the RM42,000 worth of prizes in the form of cash and finish equipment._

142 take part in 9th Miri City International Deep Sea Fishing Tournament | New Sarawak Tribune

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Endlesszen

kkacer said:


> iphine is a small


/yeah,There is no doubt!


----------



## ahojunk

Staying on the topic of Malaysia in the SCS, this is a pic of Swallow Reef controlled by Malaysia.

It has a 1.4km airstrip, jetty and a diving resort. Occupied by Malaysia since 1983.


----------



## cirr

Subi Island 05.06.2015

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

Vietnam launches 'sovereignty' cruise to South China Sea islands | World news | The Guardian

I will post pics of the tourists visiting the islands if available.


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

*Philippine defence minister 'gravely concerned' over reports Chinese warship fired warning shot in South China Sea*




*Photo:* China has reportedly fired a warning shot at a Filipino fishing boat in the South China Sea. (Reuters/US Navy) 

The Philippine defence minister says Manila is "gravely concerned" over reports a Chinese warship has fired a warning shot on a Filipino fishing boat in the disputed South China Sea.

China has been rapidly expanding its occupied reefs in the Spratly archipelago, alarming other claimants and drawing sharp criticism from the United States, Japan and Europe.

The fishing boat was reportedly near a reclaimed reef when the shot was fired.

"If indeed this happened, it is a cause of grave concern," Philippine defence minister Voltaire Gazmin told journalists in a text message from Tokyo, where he has been accompanying president Benigno Aquino on a four-day state visit.

In Tokyo, Mr Aquino said his nation was ready to start talks with Japan on allowing Japanese military aircraft and naval vessels to use Philippine bases to refuel and resupply.

The move would extend Tokyo's range of operations into the South China Sea.

On Wednesday, Mr Aquino made a veiled comparison between China's activities in the South China Sea and Nazi Germany's expansionism before World War Two.

China claims most of the South China Sea, through which $5 trillion in ship-borne trade passes every year.

The Philippines, Brunei, Malaysia, Taiwan and Vietnam also have overlapping claims.

All but Brunei have fortified bases in the Spratly Islands, which are roughly 1,300 kilometres from the Chinese mainland but much closer to the South-East Asian claimants.

Beijing has also slammed a move by Vietnam it said would violate China's sovereignty.

Vietnam has announced it would offer a luxury cruise to the Spratly archipelago for "patriotic citizens".

The political advertisement said the cruise would revive national pride and awareness of Vietnam's sacred maritime sovereignty.

Philippine defence minister 'gravely concerned' over reports Chinese warship fired warning shot in South China Sea - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)


----------



## Beidou2020

China should sink Viet and Pinoy ships.


----------



## JayMandan

Beidou2020 said:


> China should sink Viet and Pinoy ships.


I can't wait man. Can you please tell your government to do so!


----------



## cirr

*CCG 46016* launched 28.05.2015







CCG Hainan Detachment。

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cirr

Renewable energy（wind and solar）plus energy storage system（ESS，lithium-ion battery and BMS）on Chiguadao Island：

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ahojunk

cirr said:


> Renewable energy（wind and solar）plus energy storage system（ESS，lithium-ion battery and BMS）on Chiguadao Island：


I cannot see this image as it is referring to a "link". It keeps timing out. 

Could it be that I am trying to view it from Australia?

Can someone be kind enough to download this image and upload it as an attachment?
.


----------



## Globenim

cirr said:


> Renewable energy（wind and solar）plus energy storage system（ESS，lithium-ion battery and BMS）on Chiguadao Island：



We should build giant windparks around the islands  Lets watch some silly pirates try to "freedom of navigation in international waters" into Chinas territorial waters and whining about Chinese wind turbines making "threatening manouvers" on their peaceful spy ships.


----------



## Elkanah

Lol


----------



## ahojunk

Picture of Yongshu Island. Click on the pic to enlarge. Lots of construction activities are happening.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

*Vietnam wants more fun and games in Spratlys*

*Cynthia D. Balana*
*Philippine Daily Inquirer
 5:47 AM | Friday, May 29th, 2015*
 

*@inquirerdotnet*

*

*
_Members of the Philippine (back R-in white) and Vietnamese (L-in stripes) navies taking part in a tug-of-war game during a day of friendly games and cultural exchanges on June 8 on the contested islands in the Spratlys archipelago in the South China Sea. AFP/Philippine Navy FILE PHOTO_

Vietnam wants to conduct more friendly engagements with the Philippines following the successful holding of ball games and other sports activities on Wednesday in Parola Island (Northeast Cay) in the West Philippine Sea.

“They (Vietnamese Navy troops) were encouraged by the results and they would like to have a follow-on,” Philippine Navy spokesman Col. Edgard Arevalo said on Thursday.

“The information that we had was they were very happy about the turnout of the activity and they would like to have another similar event,” Arevalo said.

The Navy-to-Navy engagement was held in the Philippines-occupied territory in the Kalayaan Island Group.
A total of 62 personnel from the Vietnamese People’s Navy and the same number of sailors from the host Navy took part in the sports games.

This return visit followed after an equally successful hosting by the Vietnamese troops of a similar event in June 28 last year at the Vietnamese Navy’s island detachment.

Among the events played this year were volleyball, football, tug-of-war, sack race and centipede race. The host Navy won in the tug-of-war and the sack race for male.

The visiting team Navy won in the volleyball, soccer, centipede race and sack race for female. The Vietnamese troops were declared the overall winner.

The action-packed sports competition was capped by a cultural presentation rendered by the host Navy that the Vietnamese team met with acclamation.

Arevalo said the local Navy personnel reflected the true Filipino virtues of hospitality and friendship.

“Even language did not pose a barrier. The participants understood each other through signs and gestures,” he said.

He said the event showed that winning in the sports event was second only to what was attained in this activity—keeping peace, maintaining goodwill and promoting camaraderie between and among the participants.

“Sailor-to-sailor interactions like this foster understanding notwithstanding varying positions and overlapping claims between Vietnam and the Philippines in the West Philippine Sea,” Arevalo said.

“The Philippine and Vietnamese Navies are in the forefront of ensuring peace, amity, cooperation and assistance in that part of the sea,” he said.

The assistance recently rendered by the Vietnamese People’s Navy in helping six distressed Filipino fisherfolk near their island detachment this year is one good example of such cooperation and assistance.


Read more: http://globalnation.inquirer.net/123671/vietnam-wants-more-fun-and-games-in-spratlys#ixzz3cOJW3MUN
Follow us: @inquirerdotnet on Twitter | inquirerdotnet on Facebook


----------



## cirr

It is official - China's development of Sansha City in the SCS will be modelled on the Maldives：

国家海洋局支持海南加快三沙建设 借鉴“马尔代夫”模式_今日要闻_滚动播报_四川日报网


----------



## terranMarine

Chinese Maldives  , another fabulous destination and a cash cow for China

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ahojunk

Pic of Meiji (Mischief) taken on 01-Jun-2015.
It shows the western side in detail. Click on the image to view the enlarged pic.





Picture taken on 07-June-2015.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## William Hung

lol why was my thread about the history of the SCS deleted? It was civil, members disagreed but still behaved themselves in that thread.

@Hu Songshan can you explain why it was deleted? I suspect it was deleted because of another mod/TTA but if it was you, can I at least get some explanations why it was deleted?

As far as I saw, everyone in that thread didn't break any rules, nor did they troll, so why was it deleted while other flame threads are still open? Thanks.

@ahojunk, any update on Eldad reef? Post pics of it if you have any. I still can't find any up to date info on it. Thanks.


----------



## Viet

*US draws allies into South China Sea dispute*

YUKIO TAJIMA, Nikkei staff writer
June 4, 2015 12:00 am JST







U.S. Secretary of Defense Ashton Carter delivers his speech during the Asia Security Summit May 30 in Singapore. © AP

SINGAPORE -- Defense ministers from Japan, the U.S. and Australia expressed grave concerns about China building artificial islands in disputed areas in the South China Sea during an annual international security forum late last month.

In their joint statement, released on May 30, the three Pacific nations' top defense officials urged "all South China Sea claimants to exercise self-restraint, halt reclamation activities, take steps to ease tensions and refrain from provocative actions that could escalate tensions."

This was squarely aimed at China, which is covering reefs and coral atolls to build islets around the Spratly Islands, known as Nansha Qundao in Chinese, and other waters claimed by multiple nations in the South China Sea.

As Beijing builds structures, including a 3,000-meter runway, on the artificial islands, neighboring Philippines and Vietnam are objecting strongly to the construction. With the U.S. increasing patrols of the areas with aircraft and sea vessels, tensions are heating up between Washington and Beijing.

This year's Asia Security Summit was held in Singapore from May 29-31 amid this background. China's reclamation activities were high on everyone's mind.

China's behavior is "out of step with both the international rules and norms," U.S. Defense Secretary Ashton Carter said in a speech on May 30. He criticized Beijing and demanded, "There should be an immediate and lasting halt to land reclamation."

Japanese Defense Minister Gen Nakatani also spoke, pointing a finger directly at China for heightening tensions in the region. "I hope and expect all the countries, including China, to behave as a responsible power," he said in his speech.

In a meeting on the sidelines of the conference, Nakatani and Carter were united in their opposition to China's attempts at changing the status quo, clearly sniping at its island-building activities, which disregard all other claims on the territory.

The two, along with Australian Defense Minister Kevin Andrews, also expressed their "serious concern over Chinese land reclamation activities in the South China Sea," according to the joint statement.
*
Pushback*

*Japan, the U.S. and Australia are exploring the idea of helping the Philippines and Vietnam to deal with China's activities in the South China Sea.*

The two countries lack the personnel and military equipment, such as pilots and patrol aircraft, necessary to monitor the territories properly. These staffing and technology shortcomings are some of the reasons China has been able to build the islands mostly unnoticed, until recently.

Japan, the U.S. and Australia intend to help by training military personnel in the two Southeast Asian nations. The trio also plan to help the Philippines and Vietnam improve their soldiers' skills by inviting some of officials to train in Japan, the U.S. and Australia, as well as promoting military exchanges.

Furthermore, Japan may dispatch its Self-Defense Forces to the troubled sea territory for warning and surveillance activities.

Predictably, Beijing reacted swiftly to Carter's criticism of its reclamation activities.

Adm. Sun Jianguo, deputy chief of general staff of the People's Liberation Army, criticized the U.S. and other countries for provoking China with accusations about its reclamation activities, and suggested that China is being unfairly targeted.

"[The] South China Sea issue has become a hot topic during this dialogue ... but in the world and the Asia-Pacific region, there are many more serious security issues other than the South China Sea," Sun said on May 31.

He also confirmed that China's contentious reclamation work in the South China Sea is for "military and defense needs."

"Along with meeting the necessary military and defense needs, [the construction] is to better China's international responsibilities and obligations regarding maritime search and rescue, disaster prevention and relief, maritime scientific research ... [and] safety of navigation," said the Chinese admiral. He also restated China's official line that the work improves working and living conditions for personnel stationed on the islands.


----------



## fadine

Yorozuya said:


> ...
> @ahojunk, any update on Eldad reef? Post pics of it if you have any. I still can't find any up to date info on it. Thanks.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

Newly inducted* CCG 3105* sailing downward the mighty Yangtze River for its base in the SCS：











Proud produce of Chuandong Shipbuilding Co., Sichuan Province.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cirr

Sansha City（the administrative body responsible for the whole SCS south to the Yongxing（Woody） Island）Integrated Law Enforcement Vessel #1

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## 70U63

_*Tough talk by the US is escalating tensions in Asia. This is exactly how wars start.*_

_Second, it is far from clear that Asian countries are as willing to side with Washington against Beijing as US policymakers assume. As we have said, everyone wants the US to help balance China's power, but no one wants a bad relationship with China, and no one wants to see escalating US-China rivalry, let alone conflict. So everyone in Asia wants Washington to tread carefully in its dealings with Beijing. And none of them would join the US against China if it came to a fight._

South China Sea not the place to get all bolshie

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Viet

_We will continue to fish around Paracels. No chinese clown can stop us._


*Hoang Sa is Vietnam’s traditional fishing grounds: FM spokesman*
_Last update 09:20 | 22/05/2015
Vietnam Net

Hoang Sa (Paracel) archipelago is an integral territory of Vietnam and its waters have long been the traditional fishing grounds of Vietnamese fishermen, affirmed Vietnamese Foreign Ministry’s Spokesman Le Hai Binh. _






Answering reporters’ queries on Vietnam’s response to China’s unilateral ban on fishing in the East Sea at a regular press conference on May 21, Binh said that Vietnam will intensify management and closely monitor Vietnamese fishermen’s fishing activities in the waters of Vietnam in order to timely address arising incidents.

Mentioning to China’s large-scale construction on reef islands altering the status quo and violating Vietnam’s sovereignty over Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelago, the spokesman confirmed that Vietnam has full legal foundations and historical evidence proving its sovereignty on Hoang Sa and Truong Sa archipelagoes.

All actions of parties at the area without Vietnam’s agreement are illegal and void, he added.

Vietnamese functional agencies are keeping an eye on operations in the East Sea, including the operation and position of China’s drilling rig Haiyang Shiyou-981.

Regarding CNN’s launch of a video capturing Chinese naval ships chasing US aircraft flying above the international waters of the East Sea, Binh said that maintaining peace, stability, aviation and maritime security and safety in the East Sea, which forms an important international maritime route and aviation corridor, is the common interest and aspiration of nations inside and outside the region.

Vietnam calls on countries concerned to contribute to maintaining peace, stability, aviation and maritime security and safety in the East Sea in a responsible and active manner, while respecting the sovereignty, sovereign right and jurisdiction of coastal nations on the basis of international law, the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, and avoiding complicating the situation, he stated.

*Indonesia called to follow int’l law treating caught vessels
*
The Vietnamese Foreign Ministry’s spokesman called on Indonesia to address appropriately the issue of foreign fishing ships and fishermen supposedly operating in its waters in line with international law.

At a regular press conference on May 21, spokesman Le Hai Binh said Indonesia should pay attention to the worries of countries concerned when answering a question about Indonesia destroying foreign vessels allegedly caught to fish in its waters.

Indonesia should take in the spirit of treating the vessels and fisherman kindly, Binh said.
Indonesia destroyed 41 caught foreign vessels at several sites on May 20 in a move said to stop illegal fishing in its waters.
_VNA_

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

Meiji Island，a view from the ISS：

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cirr

*CCG 3106* is readying herself to join sister ship *CCG 3105* that was spotted sailing downward the Yangtze River several days back for homebase in the SCS

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## bobsm

*China rebukes Japan's meddling in South China Sea issue *

English.news.cn 2015-06-12 19:56:41 

BEIJING, June 12 (Xinhua) -- A Foreign Ministry spokesperson has urged Japan not to weigh into territorial disputes in the South China Sea, labelling Japan a "non-party" in the matter.

Hong Lei made the comments at a media briefing on Friday responding to reporter's question on Japan's recent hyping up the South China Sea issue and Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe more recently expressing "serious concern" over China's construction activities on islands and reefs of Nansha Islands in the South China Sea.

"China has voiced strong concern and indignation over Japan's negative moves, and has lodged solemn representations," Hong said.

"As a non-party to the South China Sea issue, Japan has been behaving very abnormally recently by deliberately interfering in the issue, stirring up dispute among regional countries and creating tension at sea."

He said China has indisputable sovereignty over the Nansha Islands and its surrounding waters. He said China's construction activities on some garrisoned islands and reefs of the Nansha Islands in the South China Sea is totally within its sovereignty. "They are lawful, reasonable and justified, which does not affect or target any other countries and beyond reproach".

"Japan's move neither contributes to resolving the South China Sea disputes nor protecting peace and stability in the South China Sea. It severely undermines security and political mutual trust between China and Japan and runs counter to improving bilateral ties," according to the spokesman.

Hong urged Japan to honor its commitment of not taking sides and respect the efforts of China and ASEAN countries to maintain peace in the South China Sea.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Zero_wing

Well you piss of a lot of people thanks for the alliance china


----------



## ahojunk

View of Philippines controlled Thitu (Zhongye) Island from a fly by.
The size of the island is 0.372 sq km with a 1.3 km airstrip.


----------



## dichoi

Last update 08:00 | 10/06/2015

China is a threat: US scholar
_VietNamNet Bridge - This is the second article in a series written Hoang Huong during her trip to Hawaii (USA), Beijing and Hainan (China), Masinloc and Manila (the Philippines) and Singapore with journalists from 14 countries in the Asia-Pacific region to discuss the East Sea (South China Sea) conflict, held by the Jefferson Fellowships program of the East-West Center (USA)._

The three scholars mentioned in the article are Dr. Mr. Denny Roy, a senior expert on governance and security from the East-West Center (USA), Prof. Sherry P. Broder, a lecturer at the William S. Richardson Law School, University of Hawaii (USA) and Dr. Li Guoqiang, a researcher in the field of philosophy and social sciences from the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences.

Sharing the same view that China has been developing very strongly and this country now has great influence on global trade, the Chinese and American scholars’ perspective is different on the orientation and the way of development, as well as the attitude of China to the world in the process of economic development.

Referring to the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea (DOC), which was signed by China and ASEAN countries in 2002, Mr. Li Guoqiang said that during the process of discussion and implementation, the concerned parties should try to reach common awareness and should not impose their will on others. However, two American scholars pointed out the actions that go against the good words of China.

Prof. Sherry P. Broder said that in the past few years, China has been involved in serious standoffs with its neighbors. She listed various events such as China’s dispute with the Philippine Coast Guard at the Scarborough Shoal began in 2012. In November 2013, China unexpectedly declared an air defense identification zone (ADIZ) over a large portion of the East China Sea that overlaps portions of the South Korean and Japanese ADIZs. In 2014, China sent the HD-981 oil rig in waters disputed with Vietnam near the Paracel Islands.

“China has also used its economic power to influence developments and to punish its opponents in the East Sea and West Sea disputes. For instance, in 2012, China restricted Philippine fruit imports. In 2010, China restricted exports of rare earth minerals to Japan. China claimed that the action was for environmental protection purposes, but in 2014 the World Trade Organization concluded that China’s restrictions were discriminatory and violated its rules,” said Prof. Broder.

Dr. Denny Roy frankly pointed out: “China sends dual, perhaps contradictory, messages. The first is ‘Don’t worry, we want peace and stability and trade that will be good for you.’ The second message is ‘We are increasingly powerful, so if you are wise you will treat China with deference and respect or you will suffer’.”

A reporter from New Zealand questioned why did China repeatedly state it observed the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) but refused the arbitration case of the Philippines? Mr. Li Guoqiang explained quite confusingly: "The UNCLOS does not solve the territorial, dispute and military issues, just deal with the basic problems of the sea…"

Citing China’s respect of diplomatic measures among the three ways of settlement - military struggle, judicial arbitration and diplomacy – Mr. Li Guoqiang justified China’s attitude in the Philippines’ lawsuit as "justifiable and appropriate."

Prof. Broder said: “If the arbitration panel rules in favor of the Philippines, it will strengthen the position of the Philippines and probably encourage other countries in the region to bring claims to push back China’s claims. If China refuses to abide by the decision, it will erode China’s international standing and position as a global leader.”

*"China is a threat"*

Referring to the role of the US in the East Sea, particularly when the US recently sent the warship USS Fort Worth to patrol the East Sea, which was protested fiercely by China, Mr. Li Guoqiang said the US’s statement on the policy on the South China Sea was "unconstructive".

"The US is not the country concerned, but it has made a lot of actions to intervene in the South China Sea issue," he said.

From American view, Prof. Broder clearlysaid: “China has repeatedly promised that it means only peace. The Charter of the United Nations prohibits using force to settle territorial disputes. The escalating conflicts in the region could trigger a severe crisis, which would ultimately affect the entire world.”

“The US has continued to urge all claimants to follow the provisions of the 2002 DOC, in which the parties committed to exercise self-restraint in the conduct of activities that would complicate or escalate disputes and affect peace and stability. It is fair for other nations to evaluate the validity of what China says against its actions,” she said.

Dr. Denny Roy stressed that the rise of China is a threat. “A stronger China will more strongly demand Chinese security and prosperity. Inevitably, this will reduce the freedom of action and in some cases the security of China’s neighbors. In that sense the rise of China is a threat,” he said.

** Dr. Denny Roy *taught Chinese studies, the history of Asia, and Southeast Asian politics at the Navy School of Monterey, California, in 1998 - 2000; researched on security - defense at the University of Canberra, Australia; taught political science at schools in Singapore and England before becoming a senior researcher of the East - West Research Centre in Honolulu, Hawaii, United States. He is the author of many research works such as The Pacific War and Its Political Legacies; Taiwan: A Political Policy and China's Foreign Relations, and many articles in scientific - politics journals.

** Prof. Sherry P. Broder *is a lecturer at the William S. Richardson Law School, University of Hawaiil, Honolulu, Hawaii, USA. Her major teaching and research fields are is international law, ocean law, environmental law and human rights. Also, she is a media advisor and arbitrator for Hawaii’s government. She is the founder and executive director of the Jon Van Dyke Institute for International Law and Justice, which regularly organizes seminars and events related to the UNCLOS, the International Environmental Law and the International law on human rights.

** Dr. Li Guoqiang* is a researcher in the field of philosophy and social sciences. He is working at the border research center of the CASS, China.

*Hoang Huong*


----------



## ahojunk

View from China.
--------
G7 accused of ignoring the facts over South China Sea
2015-06-10 08:31 | China Daily | _Editor: Wang Fan_

Beijing accused G7 members of bias, ignoring the facts and irresponsibility on Tuesday as it rejected a statement made by the group targeting, but not naming, China over maritime tensions.

The accusations were leveled by Hong Lei, spokesman for the Chinese Foreign Ministry, at a news conference.

"What the G7 members have said and done are too far from the facts," Hong said.

"China strongly urges the G7 members to respect the facts, discard bias, stop making irresponsible remarks and focus on things that can really help to properly handle and resolve the disputes and contribute to regional peace and stability."

On Monday, leaders of the Group of Seven countries expressed concerns over tensions in the East and South China seas and called for nations to abide by international law. Their comments marked the end of a two-day summit in southern Germany.

"We strongly oppose the use of intimidation, coercion or force, as well as any unilateral actions that seek to change the status quo, such as large-scale land reclamation," the G7 leaders said, without naming countries. Many observers interpreted the statement as targeting China.

In his reply, Hong stressed that construction work by China on the Nansha Islands in the South China Sea is an act within its sovereignty with which no other countries have the right to interfere.

He also said the facilities are mostly for civilian use to better fulfill international obligations such as maritime navigation and rescue work.

Zhou Yongsheng, a professor of Japanese studies at China Foreign Affairs University, said the fact that the statement did not name China proves "inner conflict and struggle" within G7 is continuing. It was also a disappointment for Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, he said.

"Some G7 members, such as Germany and France, obviously do not want to be 'kidnapped' by Japan to sacrifice their friendship with China over something that really does not affect their interests," Zhou said. "As hard as Abe has tried to make this a big issue on the international stage, he has failed."

Abe had been widely reported as making lobbying efforts to put the maritime issues on the G7 summit agenda.

Jia Xiudong, a senior international affairs researcher at the China Institute of International Studies, said none of the G7 members have the right to meddle in the situation in the South China Sea, as they are not directly involved.

"Making statements like this and ignoring facts and justice will not enhance the voice of the G7 on the global political stage. Rather, it will diminish its image and weaken the group's influence," Jia said.

"No one within the group really cares about the South China Sea－not even Japan. This purely political move will not help the G7 to regain the reputation and influence it has lost to emerging organizations like the G20."

Jia said the G7 statement could make the South China Sea situation more complicated, as some parties that are directly involved may take it as a sign of an endorsement of their activities within Chinese territory.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## XiaoYaoZi

what a beautiful island,enjoy it

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## XiaoYaoZi

thanks some viet media for the beautiful photos.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ahojunk

XiaoYaoZi said:


> thanks some viet media for the beautiful photos.



@XiaoYaoZi

These are indeed beautiful photos. I am amazed.

May I ask which island(s) are the pictures taken?


----------



## XiaoYaoZi

ahojunk said:


> @XiaoYaoZi
> 
> These are indeed beautiful photos. I am amazed.
> 
> May I ask which island are the pictures taken?


This is Subi Island.Some viet media take the pictures.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ahojunk

@ahtan_china @cirr @cnleio @XiaoYaoZi 

View of Dongmen (Hughes) Island.

The view appears to be looking in the South East direction. Taken from few km from the reef.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cnleio

ahojunk said:


> @ahtan_china @cirr @cnleio @XiaoYaoZi
> 
> View of Dongmen (Hughes) Island.
> 
> The view appears to be looking in the South East direction. Taken from few km from the reef.
> 
> View attachment 229862


Big smock ~ looks like catch FIRE !


----------



## XiaoYaoZi

The heart of ocean.









The pictures of islands taken from ISS




Scott Kelly:From Space Station looks like a serious expansion project on Spratly Islands in the SouthChinaSea. 









Zubi island

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## IR-TR

Dumbasses, even spying from the ISS. Anyway, which one of the islands is this? How many islands is China rightfully reclaiming?


----------



## ahojunk

IR-TR said:


> Dumbass, even spying from the ISS. Anyway, which one of the islands is this? How many islands is China rightfully reclaiming?



The first three are pictures of Meiji (Mischief) Island.

The bottom two are pictures of Zhubi (Subi) Island.

Both these islands are in the Spratly Islands group in the South China Sea.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## XiaoYaoZi

Some pictures from Yongsu island

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## dichoi

Documents proving Vietnam’s sovereignty of Truong Sa, Hoang Sa presented
_A copy of imperial records of the Nguyen Dynasty asserting Vietnam’s sovereignty over Hoang Sa (Paracel) and Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelagos has been donated to the Foreign Ministry’s National Boundary Commission by cultural researcher Ho Tan Phan.
_
The documents report the Nguyen Dynasty’s activities to exploit natural resources on the two archipelagos as well as their surveys and landmark planting there.

The copy of imperial records called “Royal Annals of Dai Nam” was collected and published by Japan’s Keio University.

The annals were originally compiled by the court’s historiography office between 1821 and 1939. However; only first part of the chronology from King Gia Long to King Dong Khanh, were engraved into wooden prints, while the rest were hand-written in six copies for preservation.

The records were lost during the war time.

Since 1961, Keio University researched, collected, photocopied the annals and published documents into 20 volumes with 8,181 pages.

Phan highlighted that thanks to concerted efforts made by the Japanese university, Royal Annals were restored and serve as valuable evidence of Vietnam’s sovereignty of Truong Sa and Hoang Sa archipelagos.

Throughout the annals, Japanese researchers and the international public are able to gain a deeper understanding about Vietnamese history from 16th century to the of the 20th century, he added.
_
VNA_

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## IR-TR

Hahah so funny. Every third rate country in the region suddenly has 'documents' proving their claims. Let's just sit back and allow China to open up it's GIGANTIC libraries and depots. Must be millions of documents. Heck, if you go back in time far enough, the whole of Eastern Asia is Chinese.


----------



## JayMandan

IR-TR said:


> Hahah so funny. Every third rate country in the region suddenly has 'documents' proving their claims. Let's just sit back and allow China to open up it's GIGANTIC libraries and depots. Must be millions of documents. Heck, if you go back in time far enough, the whole of Eastern Asia is Chinese.



Or let's just sit back and let the international court handle this case peacefully, do you agree?


----------



## cnleio

This is a historical time, we saw the miracle !!!

2015-06-10, Mischief Island !










2015-06-10, Subi Island !


----------



## Soryu

IR-TR said:


> Hahah so funny. Every third rate country in the region suddenly has 'documents' proving their claims. Let's just sit back and allow China to open up it's GIGANTIC libraries and depots. Must be millions of documents. Heck, if you go back in time far enough, the whole of Eastern Asia is Chinese.


Do it, and claim all Eastern Asia if you can ...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## IR-TR

Soryu said:


> Do it, and claim all Eastern Asia if you can ...


Economically? Already the case, and China isn't even halfway towards reaching it's economic potential. Just look at it like Germany within the EU. No need to invade and destroy anymore, it's just economic superiority. Neighbours depend on China economically. The US can't even offer 20% of what China offers trade and investment wise. It's just numbers.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## XiaoYaoZi

New Island pictures

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## ahojunk

Some pictures of Yongshu Island taken on 10-June-2015. Enjoy!
The area is 2.79 km².
The airstrip is over 3100 meters long and 50 meters wide.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Tom99

China said it will finish reclamations soon few days ago, so will China be able to finish required work on the above island to totally enclose the water or will it leave it half done as of 15-06-10?

It would be a total disappointment if it is done just as it is now.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## IR-TR

They won't leave it half done. The basic reclamation will be finished.


----------



## ahojunk

Subi's area is now estimated to be 3.87 square kilometers.
A straight segment on the western side can accommodate an airstrip more than three kilometers long.






The terrain preparation at this segment resemble that at Yongshu a few months ago, indicating there may be another airstrip in the making at Subi.


----------



## ahojunk

The progress of Meiji Island from 27-May to 09-June. Incredible!
It is already the biggest island in the South China Sea, period.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## IR-TR

Off topic: one thing is for sure, Chinese PLAN sailors are going to have a heck of a nice beach to swim on their off-day.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ahojunk

Pictures at China’s other islands – Hughes, Gaven, Johnson South and Cuarteron.

Intensive construction of facilities is on-going. They each has a 5-meter by 40-meter concrete ramp leading to a 2nd/3rd story of a large new building. The ramps allow the relocation of equipment to an elevated location in the event of a typhoon.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ahojunk

Below is a pic dated 13-Feb-2015 that shows a 4,000-ton CCG ship in Luconia Shoals. It is stationed 3.5 km from an elevated coral sediment called Luconia Breakers. A smaller Malaysian Navy patrol vessel is seen anchored 2.7 km northwest of the Chinese ship.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## xudoai

G7 to express concern over East Sea
_Group of Seven leaders will express their concern over any unilateral action to change the status quo in the East China Sea and East Vietnam Sea amid tensions between China and a number of Asian countries, Japan's Yomiuri newspaper said on June 6._

At the end of the summit in Germany, which starts on June 7, members will release a declaration calling for maintaining an international order of seas based on international law, the report said, without citing sources. No country will be singled out.

G7 leaders a year ago expressed their concern about tensions between China and a number of other Asian countries over resources in the East Vietnam Sea and East China Sea, and warned against any use of force.

China claims most of the East Vietnam Sea, through which US$5 trillion in ship-borne trade passes every year. The Philippines, Brunei, Malaysia, Taiwan and Vietnam also have overlapping claims.

All but Brunei have fortified bases in the disputed waters, which are roughly 1,300 km (800 miles) from the Chinese mainland but much closer to the Southeast Asian claimants.

Japan also has a territorial row with China over islands in the East China Sea.

China has been criticised for extensive reclamation work and moves to turn submerged rocks into man-made structures. The United States last week said Beijing had placed mobile artillery systems in contested territory.

*Mosccow workshop on the East Sea*

Dozens of experts and scholars discussed East Sea issues and conflicts threatening world peace at a round table discussion held in Moscow’s University of Humanities on June 5.

They expressed concern over China’s construction and reclamation of land and artificial islands in the East Sea.

Russia held that related parties not use force or threaten to use force and persist on diplomatic dialogues and political solutions to address remaining issues based on international law, especially the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS).

_VNA_


----------



## XiaoYaoZi

Huayang island


----------



## ahojunk

It appears that there is a new causeway heading south from Dongmen (Hughes) Island.


----------



## ahojunk

China unveils construction plan for reclamation projects in South China Sea
CCTV.com
06-22-2015 23:21 BJT

China has unveiled its development plan for civil-use construction projects on its islands in the South China Sea. 

According to a statement released by the National Development and Reform Commission- China's top economic and development planner- a batch of facilities for telecommunication, navigation, environmental monitoring, disaster relief, transportation and production, and logistical support will be constructed.

Key projects include large-scale lighthouses on international shipping routes, maritime security and communication facilities, as well as support for emergency rescue and salvage. Facilities will also be built to provide supply, shelter, maintenance and repair services to ships passing by. 

Meteorological centers to monitor tsunamis, earthquakes and the maritime environment, as well as maritime research centers, will also be constructed. A large scale medical and emergency center will also be built to satisfy future medical needs, alongside waste water and garbage processing facilities. Experts says these projects will further promote international cooperation in the South China Sea. 

"There are two main purposes for China's reclamation activities on its islands in the South China Sea," said Ruan Zongze, Executive VP for China Institute of Int'l Studies, "One is to improve the living and working environment for the personnel based on the islands. The other purpose is so that China can shoulder more international responsibilities and obligations. After the construction is completed, the facilities on the islands can be opened to countries surrounding the South China Sea, as well as international organizations and the international community."

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## IR-TR

It's not called the South CHINA Sea for nothing. Every other nation gets their territorial waters, and the rest goes to China. Others nations, if peaceful, may join in afterwards (splitting resources etc).


----------



## TaiShang

*China says South China Sea not an issue with U.S.*
1
2015-06-24 

A Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson said Tuesday that the South China Sea issue is not and should not be one between China and the United States.

Spokesman Lu Kang made the remarks while responding to a question on recent comments of Daniel Russell, assistant U.S. secretary of state for east Asian and Pacific affairs. Russell said the United States has "an unwavering determination" to avoid military confrontation with countries in the South China Sea, including China.

It is not an issue between the United States and China, but between China and some ASEAN members, Russell told a media briefing, while calling on China to stop militarizing outposts in the South China Sea.

"We have noticed Assistant Secretary of State Russell's comments, and we have been stressing to the U.S. side the South China Sea issue is not and should not be an issue between the two countries," Lu said.

China has several times stated its position on land reclamation on some territorial islands and reefs in the Nansha Islands, Lu said.

He said China agrees with the United States on closer bilateral cooperation in countering various global issues.

Hailing the fruitful cooperation and high interdependence between the two stakeholders, Lu said it is inevitable that both sides sometimes have different views or disputes as their interests increasingly overlap.

The development history of China-U.S. relationship shows that their cooperation far outweighs disputes, said the spokesman.

"Both sides have reached a consensus on expanding dialogue and communication and controlling disputes, in order to focus on win-win cooperation and jointly addressing global challenges," Lu said.

China and the United States are set to start annual high-level talks in Washington D.C. on Tuesday, namely, the seventh China-U.S. Strategic and Economic Dialogue and the sixth China-U.S. High-Level Consultation on People-to-People Exchange.

"We expect the talks will show to the world the positive achievements of China-U.S. relations," said the spokesman.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## 70U63

To Chinese member, anyone can check this?

Saw the following post in one of the Malaysia forum, I haven't read any news from Malaysia gov.


----------



## CCP

70U63 said:


> To Chinese member, anyone can check this?
> 
> Saw the following post in one of the Malaysia forum, I haven't read any news from Malaysia gov.



Basically, China and Malaysia already made a deal for it. Both govt.s are quiet .

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## 70U63

I do believe Gov on both side have made some agreement behind the closed-door, especially Malaysia side which we got too much internal shxt to deal with.
The post is either fake (some PH ppl made up the story) or real (Malaysia Gov try to cover up) 



CCP said:


> Basically, China and Malaysia already made a deal for it. Both govt.s are quiet .

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## zhkf



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## yowhenyo

*TALES FROM CHINA | Observatory 'built' on Panatag; astronomer in 2 places at same time - Carp*

MANILA - Could a 13th century Chinese astronomer have built an "observatory" more than 12 meters high and several meters wide, on the Philippines' Panatag (Scarborough) Shoal, which juts a mere 1.2 meters above water at high tide?

This was the claim made by the Chinese embassy web site to buttress Beijing's claim on the area it de facto occupied in 2012, and from which it routinely drives away Filipino fishermen.

The answer to whether that claim is at all possible is "No," on two counts - on sheer physical impossibility, and on China's own conflicting accounts - according to Supreme Court Senior Associate Justice Antonio Carpio, who cited in a recent lecture the absurdity of Beijing's claims.

It's just one of many, Carpio said, that Beijing has been using to boost its "baseless' nine-dashed line claim, the anchor of its steady expansion in the South China Sea.

First, there's the sheer physical impossibility, granting astronomer Guo Shoujing, indeed, visited Panatag (Scarborough) in 1279 and erected an observatory there.

Here's why. In his lecture at a forum organized by the nationalist group P1NAS at the Pamantasan ng Lungsod ng Maynila on June 25, Carpio flashed onscreen an image of a 12.6-meter high stone observatory situated in Henan Province, which, he said, is "the only extant astronomical observatory among the 27 that Guo Shoujing built during the Yuan Dynasty."

Image below is that of the Gaocheng Observatory:






Subsequently, Carpio reminded his audience of that iconic photo - with a solitary Philippine flag standing - of South Rock, already the biggest rock on Scarborough Shoal, and yet is just 1.2 meters above water at high tide.

"No more than 6 to 10 people could stand on it," Carpio said of South Rock.

"To be operated, the observatories of Guo Shoujing have had to be manned everyday, since measurements have to be taken everyday. It was physically impossible to erect, or operate, such an observatory on Scarborough Shoal," Carpio argued.

Certainly, he added, "the massive astronomical observatories that Guo Shoujing erected in other places in China could not possibly fit on the tiny rocks of Scarborough Shoal."

To prove the physical impossibility of that, he showed this hypothetical image of a huge observatory balancing itself on a tiny rock:





*Was Guo Shoujing in Paracels or Scarborough?*
Even if one were to suspend judgment on the physical ludicrousness of an observatory on Panatag's (Scarborough) South Rock, Beijing itself had sent out two conflicting claims about where the famed astronomer really went, Carpio pointed out.

In its Embassy web site in Manila, "China claims Scarborough Shoal because the shoal is allegedly the Nanhai Island that Guo Shoujing visited in 1279 and where he erected an astronomical observatory," Carpio told his PLM audience.

The web site states: "Huangyan Island was first discovered and drew [sic] into China's map in China's Yuan Dynasty (1271-1368 AD). In 1279, Chinese astronomer Guo Shoujing performed surveying of the seas around China for Kublai Khan, and Huangyan Island was chosen as the point in the South
China Sea."

And yet, Carpio continued, "in a document entitled 'China's Sovereignty Over Xisha and Zhongsha Islands Is Indisputable' issued on January 30, 1980, China's Ministry of Foreign Affairs officially declared that the Nanhai island that Guo Shoujing visited in 1279 was in Xisha or what is internationally called the Paracels, a group of islands more than 380 NM from Scarborough Shoal."

China issued this official document, Carpio explained, to "bolster its claim to the Paracels and to counter Vietnam's strong historical claims to the same islands."

Here are the exact words from this Chinese official document, published in Beijing Review, Issue No. 7 dated February 18, 1980: "Early in the Yuan Dynasty, an astronomical observation was carried out at 27 places throughout the country. xxx According to the official History of the Yuan Dynasty,
Nanhai, Gou's observation point, was "to the south of Zhuya" and "the result of the survey showed that the latitude of Nanhai is 15°N." The astronomical observation point Nanhai was today's Xisha Islands. It shows that Xisha Islands were within the bounds of China at the time of the Yuan dynasty."

In all, Gou Shoujing was supposed to have built 27 astronomical observatories, 26 on the mainland and one on an island in the South Sea (Nanhai), Carpio said, quoting official reports, but the problem is, China cannot seem to make up its mind on which island that was: the Paracels claimed by Vietnam, or the Philippines' Scarborough (Panatag) Shoal.

When it needed to box out Vietnam from the Paracels, it claimed the astronomer had gone to Xisha (Paracels). But, more recently, Beijing claims the astronomer went to the Philippines' Scarborough Shoal, where he did the impossible feat of erecting a massive observatory on a slender, 1-meter tall rock.

Carpio -- who has done decades-long extensive research on the law of the seas and the South China Sea issues, and stresses in all lectures that his views are his own and do not reflect the Philippine government's -- said that "China cannot now claim that Scarborough Shoal is the South Sea island that Guo Shoujing visited in 1279, because China had already declared in 1980 that Gou Shoujing visited the Paracels where he erected that astronomical observatory."


----------



## cirr

*CCG 2901*






Love the colour of the main gun

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Beidou2020

LOVE IT


----------



## ahojunk

China determined, able to safeguard its justified rights over Nansha Islands: FM




*Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi speaks at the luncheon of the fourth World Peace Forum in Beijing, capital of China, June 27, 2015. (Xinhua/Ding Haitao)*

BEIJING, June 27 (Xinhua) -- China is determined and able to continue to safeguard its justified rights and interests of the Nansha Islands by legitimate means, Foreign Minister Wang Yi on Saturday.

"On the Nansha Islands issues, we have resolute determination and enough capabilities. We will continue to take reasonable and legitimate approaches to safeguard our justified rights and interests of the Nansha Islands. We will work with the ASEAN countries to ensure peace and stability of the Nansha Islands," Wang said when asked to comment on the Nansha Islands issue.

Wang delivered a speech at the luncheon of the Fourth World Peace Forum which took place at prestigious Tsinghua University on Saturday.

Wang said China will work with other countries to safeguard the freedom of navigation and overflight enjoyed by all countries in accordance with international law in the South China Sea.

On China's recent land reclamation project on some stationed islands and reefs of the Nansha Islands, Wang said the major aim is to improve the working and living conditions of the people on the islands and reefs.

As a big power, China also offered some public goods to the international community by put in place those facilities on the islands and reefs for civilian use, Wang said. ' "China's necessary construction on its own islands and reefs are totally different in nature from some countries' seizure of Chinese islands and building facilities there," Wang said.

Wang stressed China's sovereignty over the Nansha Islands is legally supported and based on facts, saying China fell victim to some countries' seizure and occupation of its islands and reefs since the exploration of oil in the South China Sea back to 1960s.

Wang said the Chinese government has always dealt with the Nansha Islands issue by peaceful means, citing the fact that China and ASEAN countries signed the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea.

"The Chinese government's position on the Nansha Islands is consistent. We will not change it," Wang said.

"China's sovereignty claim over the Nansha Islands has neither expanded nor dwindled," Wang said, calling on some countries to end the seizure and occupation of China's islands and reefs.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Zero_wing

Again no evidence to support claims and all illegal under International law and basicly imperialism next!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Beidou2020

Zero_wing said:


> Again no evidence to support claims and all illegal under International law and basicly imperialism next!



Sure there is plenty of evidence China has shown.
Philippines hasn't shown why it has any stake in the SCS.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zero_wing

Beidou2020 said:


> Sure there is plenty of evidence China has shown.
> Philippines hasn't shown why it has any stake in the SCS.


Already did and yet china cant face the philippines in Itclos nice try imperial dbag


----------



## Beidou2020

Zero_wing said:


> Already did and yet china cant face the philippines in Itclos nice try imperial dbag



Nope, you haven't proven jack little Pinoy.
Philippines has absolutely no rights whatsoever in the SCS.
SCS belongs to China.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## 70U63

Click the link below to read full article:

_The attack on the Orkim Harmony was the latest in a spate of hijackings in South-East Asian seas, where the narrow straits separating Singapore and Malaysia from Indonesia provide passage for about one-third of the world’s shipping. Fifteen hijackings took place in 2014, up from only a handful the year before, according to the International Maritime Bureau; there have been nine in the past six months alone. These incidents are the most alarming symptom of a regional uptick in piracy, ranging from petty thefts in ports to more daring heists at sea. With the once-perilous waters around Somalia now calmed by an international effort, South-East Asia has regained an old reputation as the region worst-afflicted by piracy in the world._

http://www.economist.com/news/asia/...aneers?fsrc=scn/tw/te/pe/ed/malaccabuccaneers


----------



## Zero_wing

Beidou2020 said:


> Nope, you haven't proven jack little Pinoy.
> Philippines has absolutely no rights whatsoever in the SCS.
> SCS belongs to China.



And yet china has no oral argument on even its so called evidence cant even take it to ITCLOS while the Philippines have been waiting almost forever for china to man up and take it up in itclos and this since time an memorial thing really were is the physical evidence? none so again nice try imperial nice try tell to someone who gives a f@ck the whole world smells bull on your claims good luck with that cant wait for the ITCLOS to trash the 9 dash claim so it can finally shut you trolls up for good.


----------



## Beidou2020

Zero_wing said:


> And yet china has no oral argument on even its so called evidence cant even take it to ITCLOS while the Philippines have been waiting almost forever for china to man up and take it up in itclos and this since time an memorial thing really were is the physical evidence? none so again nice try imperial nice try tell to someone who gives a f@ck the whole world smells bull on your claims good luck with that cant wait for the ITCLOS to trash the 9 dash claim so it can finally shut you trolls up for good.



Who cares about laws. As China's power grows, China don't need to follow laws. Powerful countries don't follow laws. Only weaker countries do.

You know why China can claim the entire SCS?
Because China said so. 
That's why.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Zero_wing

Beidou2020 said:


> Who cares about laws. As China's power grows, China don't need to follow laws. Powerful countries don't follow laws. Only weaker countries do.
> 
> You know why China can claim the entire SCS?
> Because China said so.
> That's why.



Wow spoken like true nazi and have not even talk about UNCLOS i was talking about ITCLOS dumb@$$ Jesus can you read your own post? and you people still wonder why people hate you my point is proven that you know your claims are bull and you can never win. So again point proven

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## IR-TR

Zero_wing said:


> Wow spoken like true nazi and have not even talk about UNCLOS i was talking about ITCLOS dumb@$$ Jesus can you read your own post? and you people still wonder why people hate you my point is proven that you know your claims are bull and you can never win. So again point proven



Do something about it besides exporting maids.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zero_wing

IR-TR said:


> Do something about it besides exporting maids.



Wow what is that go to do with what i posted? talk about a dumb post


----------



## IR-TR

Zero_wing said:


> Wow what is that go to do with what i posted? talk about a dumb post



I hate how people bitch and moan, and keep trying to deny the fact that a rising hegemon of 1.4 billion people is NOT on the same level as an under developed (though rapidly developing) island chain of 100 million people.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zero_wing

IR-TR said:


> I hate how people bitch and moan, and keep trying to deny the fact that a rising hegemon of 1.4 billion people is NOT on the same level as an under developed (though rapidly developing) island chain of 100 million people.



Again no connection to the topic at hand troll? again god complex check yourself fool! excuse us for not to much in hurry to destroying our country by polluting it to death so we can call ourselves in the same league of west you can do that if you chinese imperials want too as for us we filipinos still wanna see our seas as our forefather left them clean and clear to enjoy and to fish and some air because we need that to live so save your illogical claims and nonsense to people who give a F2ck because us and the rest of the world just raise our middle fingers at your illogical stupidity.


----------



## IR-TR

Zero_wing said:


> Again no connection to the topic at hand troll? again god complex check yourself fool! excuse us for not to much in hurry to destroying our country by polluting it to death so we can call ourselves in the same league of west you can do that if you chinese imperials want too as for us we filipinos still wanna see our seas as our forefather left them clean and clear to enjoy and to fish and some air because we need that to live so save your illogical claims and nonsense to people who give a F2ck because us and the rest of the world just raise our middle fingers at your illogical stupidity.



The Philipines are booming very fast economically, many thanks to China. So what was your message again?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zero_wing

IR-TR said:


> The Philipines are booming very fast economically, many thanks to China. So what was your message again?



What or maybe thank to other trade partners and OFWs china is one of them yes but they are below in the list so thank them for what? stealing our resources, reefs and converting to military fortresses.


----------



## Beidou2020

Zero_wing said:


> Wow spoken like true nazi and have not even talk about UNCLOS i was talking about ITCLOS dumb@$$ Jesus can you read your own post? and you people still wonder why people hate you my point is proven that you know your claims are bull and you can never win. So again point proven



China couldn't give a flying F if anyone hate China. Only thing that matters is power. It does't matter whether China's claims are bull or not, the bottomline is China can do what it wants, when it wants and how it wants.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

*Freshly minted CCG 2301 with electric propulsion sailing down the mighty Yangtze River for its homebase *

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## bobsm

*PHL halts repairs on Spratlys airstrip ahead of UN suit*
June 29, 2015 7:08am

The Philippines has halted the repair of its airstrip in the disputed Spratly islands due to its pending suit at The Hague challenging China's claim over the waters, a presidential spokesman said Sunday.

The work on the airstrip on Thitu island, which the Philippines calls Pagasa and which hosts a small community, comes as China builds up outcroppings in the waters into islands that can host military facilities.

"The repair has been stopped because we uphold the principle of keeping the status quo in the areas involved," said President Benigno Aquino III's spokesman Herminio Coloma. 

"This is part of our strategy for a rules-based and diplomatic approach where we have filed an arbitration case with the UN tribunal," he added.

The tiny airstrip on Pagasa had been largely used to bring in supplies for the small town that the Philippine government established there to stake its claim over part of the Spratlys. 

However the airstrip has deteriorated over the years, forcing the government to rely on ships which must go through a gauntlet of Chinese vessels to reach the island. 

China claims almost all of the Spratlys and the South China Sea, even areas close to the coasts of its neighbours. Its claim is disputed by the Philippines as well as Brunei, Malaysia, Vietnam and Taiwan. 

The waters are a crucial sea lane and rich fishing ground also believed to hold large mineral resources.

In 2013 the Philippines asked The Hague, based in the Netherlands, to declare China's claim invalid and in violation of international law.

Hearings—looking at whether Manila's complaint has legal merit as well as whether the court has jurisdiction over the case—are set to begin next month. —Agence France-Presse

PHL halts repairs on Spratlys airstrip ahead of UN suit | News | GMA News Online


----------



## Zero_wing

Beidou2020 said:


> China couldn't give a flying F if anyone hate China. Only thing that matters is power. It does't matter whether China's claims are bull or not, the bottomline is China can do what it wants, when it wants and how it wants.



Wow not for long my friend not for long

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zero_wing

Beidou2020 said:


> Nope, you haven't proven jack little Pinoy.
> Philippines has absolutely no rights whatsoever in the SCS.
> SCS belongs to China.



Ya only china believes that


----------



## cirr

Subi Island 30.06.2015






Land reclamation Phase I is more or less done。



Beidou2020 said:


> China couldn't give a flying F if anyone hate China. Only thing that matters is power. It does't matter whether China's claims are bull or not, the bottomline is China can do what it wants, when it wants and how it wants.



Love comes with power。

The US beat the crap out of Vietnam and see how the Vietnamses love the Americans today。

The Japanese butchered and made slaves millions of Vietnameses and see how the Vietnamese kiss Japs‘ balls today。

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cirr

*CCG 2302* joins the ranks

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## XiaoYaoZi

6.28 Yongshu Island.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## dichoi

*Int’l protest against China changing status quo in East Sea*
_On June 27, numerous international friends, peace-loving people along with Vietnamese students and nationals gathered at the UN plaza in Geneva, Switzerland, to join a march and sign a letter of protest against China altering the status quo in the East Sea._

Vice Chairman of the Vietnam Youth Association in Switzerland Luu Vinh Toan delivered a speech underlining Vietnam’s legal basis and historical evidence confirming the longstanding legal sovereignty over the Hoang Sa (Paracel) and Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelagos.

The Chinese construction of artificial islands altering the status quo in the East Sea is unacceptable by the people of Vietnam and the international community, he added.

Swiss – Vietnam Friendship Association Chairwoman Anjuska Weil said countries around the world need to understand the core of the problem is that China is a threat to peace and regional and global security. In addition to supporting Vietnam in the cause of preserving its territorial sovereignty, it is essential to raise voice for the sake of peace and justice and a war free world.

Not only Vietnamese people living, studying and working in Switzerland but all peace-loving people in Switzerland and in the world should join hands in the protest against Chin’s wrongful acts in the East Sea, she said.

Many people living in Switzerland also expressed indignation over China’s disregard for the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) and the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the East Sea (DOC) and the formation of a Code of Conduct in the East Sea (COC).

The international community noticed with deep concern that after completing its illegal construction in Truong Sa, China will brazenly declare an Air Defense Identification Zone in the East Sea- a major threat to peace, stability, freedom and security and safety of navigation and aviation in the East Sea.

The media and scholars from the US, Germany, Australia, Japan, India, Switzerland and ASEAN countries have also strongly condemned China’s acts of disrespecting international law and neighboring nations’ territorial sovereignty.

_VOV_


----------



## ahojunk

XiaoYaoZi said:


> 6.28 Yongshu Island.


As of June 28, 2015, China is expanding the construction of its island facilities on Yongshu Island. 
The construction of a 3,000 meter airstrip is nearly complete. China continues to pave and mark the airstrip and an apron and taxiway have been added adjacent to the runway. 
Prior photos showed that a small lake existed in the middle of the island; this has since been filled in. 
Personnel are now visible walking around the island. 
A sensor array has also been constructed and additional support facilities are being built. 
Meanwhile, a naval vessel is moored in the port. The island has a partially-developed port with nine temporary loading piers. The harbor area is approximately 630,000 square meters. 
Two helipads, up to 10 satellite communications antennas, and one possible radar tower are also visible. 
Also visible are two lighthouses and one cement plant.
The size of the island is estimated at 2,740,000 square meters.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## dichoi

Preparedness for “unexpected developments” in the East Sea
_VietNamNet would like to introduce the last article by our journalist Hoang Huong about the East Sea disputes. This is an interview with an American expert of politics and security in Southeast Asia, Dr. Zachary Abuza, on the defense capacity of Southeast Asian countries, the attitude of the international community and the wisest steps for Vietnam._

*A big game in the East Sea*

_*Hoang Huong: *Philippines president Benigno Aquino recently said that this country is “ready to start negotiations on an accord that will allow Japan's military to use Philippine bases”, and the two nations will also expand joint military exercises. What does this mean? Is a regional war coming?_

*Dr. Zachary Abuza: *The Philippines has worked to improve relations with Japan. For the most part the relationship is economic in nature. But there has been an increase in defense relations. Recently the two coast guards had joint exercises, and President Aquino has called on Japan to play a greater role in the East Sea. 

Japan has pledged to transfer coast guard vessels to the Philippines, and Manila is hoping to receive P3 anti-submarine aircraft from Japan. President Aquino also announced that the Philippines and Japan would begin negotiating a Visiting Forces Agreement, which would allow Japan to use Philippine military facilities on a rotational basis.

But clearly there is a shared interest by both Prime Minister Abe and President Aquino for Japan playing a more proactive role in Southeast Asia; it does not mean a regional war is imminent.

_*Hoang Huong:* Do you think it is a response to China’s recent activities? What situation that China will have to face in near future? Should China be concerned about the move?_

*Dr. Zachary Abuza: *Of course, the Philippines pursuing closer ties with Japan is in response to Chinese aggression in the East Sea. But we have seen many countries do this: Vietnam has deepened security ties with India, Japan, and the United States. 

We know that China has a claim to 90 percent of the East Sea, and as it develops the military capabilities to enforce that, it will. 

But what is baffling to me is that by pursuing such an aggressive policy in the East Sea, China is getting everything that it said was not in its strategic interests. 

For example, China wants the United States out of the Western Pacific, and yet because of Chinese aggression, you have the pivot, deeper security ties with Japan, including new guidelines for the alliance, closer US ties with the Philippines and Vietnam. 

You also have anger in Canberra, which is increasing its own patrols in the East Sea; increased defense spending in Japan, and a more assertive foreign policy; and India wanting to play a greater role. All of these are not in China’s strategic interests, but they are happening because of Chinese assertiveness.

At some point the Chinese should be asking whether their strategy in the East Sea is counter-productive. Because of the lack of transparency and the pace and scope of which China has built these seven islands, which no one in the region believes are not for military purposes, China now has a trust deficit in Southeast Asia. 

_*Hoang Huong:* U.S. defense officials said that China had put in artillery units on artificial islands. American senator John McCain recently called the US to “provide more defensive weapons to Asian countries” to cope with China. What is your comment on this?_

*Dr. Zachary Abuza: *No country has the capabilities to manufacture islands out of nothing like China. It has developed over 850 hectares since 2014. In addition, they are being armed. On Fiery Cross Reef, for example, China has not only put in a three kilometer runway, capable of handling a range of military planes, but it has built a taxiway; i.e. they are predicting enough plane traffic on the island that a single runway is insufficient. China has put in at least two mobile artillery units on South Johnson Reef. What concerns me is that those units are not for maritime purposes; they are not there for self defense. 

I am not sure if the US providing more weapons to Southeast Asian countries is necessarily the answer. No matter how much the US provides, it will not deter China.

Senator McCain wants to do something, but frankly he’s too late. It doesn’t mean that I am against sales of certain weapons to Vietnam and other Southeast Asian countries, but China’s military is adding new equipment at such an alarming rate, little can be done to deter it. 

The most important thing that can be done to deter China has little to do with the United States. ASEAN - or at least the claimant states to the Spratlys - have to come up with a common position. 

If China refuses to sign a Code of Conduct, then it’s time for ASEAN to draft it on its own and then present it to the Chinese as a take it or leave it. 

_*Hoang Huong: *From the standpoint of security and defense, what situation will China’s activities lead to and how should the regional countries do?_

*Dr. Zachary Abuza:* The seven reclaimed islands clearly have a military purpose. But it is counter-intuitive. In times of war, those Islands are very vulnerable and in many ways indefensible. But in times short of war, they are essential to the enforcement of Chinese sovereignty: they give China the capabilities to enforce sovereignty, deny access, and harass other claimants resupplying garrisons or maintaining aids to navigation. They give China the capability to deploy constantly throughout the spiritless, including its navy, coast guard and fishing vessels. China now has a permanent, 365 day a year presence in the region.

What concerns me most is that China is going to start interfering with Vietnamese resupply of their islands. I expect routine harassment and interference with fishing vessels, etc. While I do not think that a March 1988 style offensive is likely, because the diplomatic costs would be too great as it would galvanize ASEAN, if you look at where China has reclaimed its islands, several are in very key positions to deny other countries - in particular Vietnam - access. I could imagine a situation where China prevents Vietnam from supplying its bases and then backing down temporarily if ASEAN started to coalesce.

_*Hoang Huong:* According to an annual report of the US Defense Department, China annually increased its defense budget by 9.5% in recent years. Which situations should China’s neighboring countries be aware of? Will it lead to an "arms race" in the region?_

*Dr. Zachary Abuza:* China has had almost double digit growth in its military expenditure over the past two decades. Moreover, many things are not part of its military budget, such as its space program, research and development, veterans pay, etc. So China’s real budget is actually much higher than its official budget. This has caused a miniature arms race in Southeast Asia. 

Between 2010 and 2014, there were net increases for all countries, averaging 37.6 percent. ASEAN spent $38.2 billion on defense in 2014. All countries saw strong increases in military spending between 2010 and 2014.

Nonetheless, there are wide disparities amongst ASEAN states in per capita military spending, military expenditure as a percent of GDP and military expenditure as a percent of overall government spending. 

Per capita military expenditure ranges from Cambodia ($18.1) to Singapore ($1,789). The average for the region is $392, but it falls to $60 if you exclude wealthy Singapore and Brunei. Vietnam’s precept spending is relatively low at only $46. Singapore (18.3 percent) led the region with military expenditures as a percent of all government spending in 2014.

_*Hoang Huong:* How can you compare military capabilities of ASEAN states to that of China? What is a wise strategy for the countries like Vietnam?_

*Dr. Zachary Abuza: *Military capabilities in some ASEAN states, including Vietnam, have grown substantially in the past few years. But no country could sustain a prolonged military conflict with China, including Vietnam. 

What Vietnam has done, which I think is very smart given its size, level of development and size of economy, is to develop a very sophisticated military that can cause substantial harm to China should hostilities break out. 

** Dr. Zachary Abuza* is an independent consultant on politics and security in Southeast Asia. He taught political science and international relations at Simmons College in Boston and national security strategy at the National Defense University in Washington, DC. He is an advisor to the US government and US companies on issues of Southeast Asia. In 2004-2005, he was a senior fellow at the US Institute of Peace in Washington, DC.

He is the author of “Conspiracy of Silence: The Insurgency in Southern Thailand” (2008), “Political Islam and Violence in Indonesia” (2006), “Militant Islam in Southeast Asia” (2003) and “Renovating Politics in Contemporary Vietnam” (2001).

*Hoang Huong*


----------



## yowhenyo

IR-TR said:


> The Philipines are booming very fast economically, many thanks to China. So what was your message again?



This guy does not know sh*t on what he is saying. Same goes to the one who clicked on the thank button. It does not hurt to spend 1 minute to google facts. Geeezz.


----------



## cirr

*Yongshu Island*






*Meiji Island* 03-07-2015

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## TaiShang

*China Nearly Finished With Runway on 'Wall of Sand' Island in S. China Sea / Sputnik International

According to new satellite photos, an airstrip being constructed by the Chinese government atop the Fiery Cross Reef could be completed even sooner than expected.*

The images, taken on June 28, show the rapid progress made by the Chinese government in building the 10,000-foot runway on Fiery Cross Reef. Large enough to support almost every type of military aircraft, the airstrip is also accompanied by an apron and taxiway.

According to the Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative, which published the photographs, the runway is in the final stages of being paved and marked.

The US military had predicted that the airstrip could be complete as soon as next year, but the new images suggest that estimate underestimated Beijing's progress.

Satellite images also detail two helipads on the island, at least 10 communications antennas, and what appears to be a radar tower.

Further to the east, satellite imagery also provides more detail about construction activity on South Johnson Reef. Significantly smaller than Fiery Cross Reef, the island still features a 3,000 square meter harbor and multiple radar installations. Construction has recently begun on a large military facility in the island’s center, and what appear to be weapons towers.

The Chinese government has stated its intentions with the islands are largely humanitarian, allowing crews to respond rapidly to emergency situations. Last month, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Lu Kang also said that military installations would be added to meet the "necessary military defense requirements."

Beijing’s land reclamation projects are taking place in the South China Sea, a highly contested stretch of water. While China lays claim to most of the sea, there are overlapping claims by Indonesia, Malaysia, Vietnam, Brunei, Taiwan, and the Philippines. Nearly $5 trillion in trade passes through the waterway each year.

Washington has been fiercely critical of the projects, despite China’s repeated statements that it has every right to build within its own territory. The US has also remained silent as regional allies conduct their own land reclamation ventures. Satellite imagery has shown both the Philippines and Vietnam building artificial islands in the Spratly archipelago.

"We also reiterated…our concerns about China’s behavior in the South China Sea, and stressed that substantive diplomacy is the proper way to resolve disputes among the claimants in the region," a US State Department official said last month, ahead of the US-China Strategic and Economic Dialogue.

In the meantime, Washington has, however, stepped up patrols in the region, conducted large-scale military exercises with territorial claimants, and encouraged Pacific allies to counter what it fears to be a growing Chinese influence.



Read more: China Nearly Finished With Runway on 'Wall of Sand' Island in S. China Sea / Sputnik International

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## zhkf




----------



## zhkf



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## 70U63

http://www.manilatimes.net/use-bbl-and-cct-funds-to-defend-our-kalayaan-sovereignty/198416/

_My past three columns on the Spratly issue argued the following:
• We cannot rely on international law, much less on an “arbitration” case as pursued by President Aquino’s government, to uphold our sovereignty in what we call the Kalayaan Group of Islands. Never has international law determined disputes over sovereignty. Neither have maps._


_• Vietnam’s capture of our Patag Island in 1975 (Đảo Song Tử Tây to them now) and Aquino’s bungling loss of Scarborough Shoal to China in 2012 demonstrate starkly the rules of the game in this territorial contest, which are, first, that “occupation is ownership;” and second, in this day and age, a country grabbing territory can only do it without firing a shot._


_With these two conclusions, the most important thing we have to do is quite obvious, which astonishingly appears not to have not even crossed Aquino’s mind: Secure and fortify the seven islands and two shoals that are under our control._


_I am not saying we build fortifications on the level of China’s. What we need to do is fortify our islands that they would have some credible deterrent effect that an attempt by Vietnam or China to capture them would have to be through a major firefight. Cruel as that may seem, that is and has been the reality of the world of competing nation-states._


_We don’t have funds? But Aquino and his budget secretary could easily commit to provide the would-be Muslim substate called Bangsamoro P529 billion in grants from 2015 to 2020, and that’s according to his ally Senator Ralph Recto’s figures._


_

_
_Above, before-and-after photos of Taiwan’s Taiping Island in the Spratlys, showing massive infrastructure work. Below, our Pag-asa Island in 2008, and at present, showing runway has been eroded. (Images from Google Earth.)_


_We don’t have funds? But Aquino’s dole-out program called the Conditional Cash Transfer, which hasn’t made a dent on alleviating Philippine poverty (how could it, as the program doesn’t provide the poor any new skill nor productive asset?), has cost us a staggering P227 billion._


_We just have to set our priorities and give up programs like the CCT and BBL, which, in reality, are intended to buy people’s (and Muslims) support for whoever Aquino endorses in the 2016 elections._


_Half of that planned BBL grant if the law is enacted and the CCT’s 2015 budget – roughly P50 billion – is more than enough to start strengthening our sovereignty in the South China Sea. This would be done by building up our fortifications on the islands we occupy, stationing enough troops and civilian populations there, arming our garrisons adequately, and buying vessels to patrol them and to swiftly transport troops, materiel and supplies._


_A law must be enacted so that these programs can be implemented through succeeding administrations, with an innocuous title like “Kalayaan Island Group Development Program Act.”_


_I’m sure we can be innovative in developing our Spratly islands._


_Like getting our taipans to pitch in to transform Pag-asa Island for instance into some kind of Amanpulo and Balesin island resorts, as Malaysia had, in fact, done with its Swallow Reef (Layang-Layang), which has become a three-star dive site. That, in fact, had been former President Fidel Ramos’ proposal in the 1990s._


_Or maybe Phil-Am billionaire Loida Nicolas, who has been leading a boycott-China-products movement in the US, could put her purse where her mouth is by committing her Beatrice Foods’ profits just for a year to replace the rusting ship on Ayungin with a proper bunkhouse on stilts, like those the Chinese had built on their reefs. Or maybe former Congressman Roilo Golez, another high-profile boycott-China-products advocate, could start a program for public figures like him to live in and man Pag-asa Island for three months as a deterrent to foreign invasion. For losing Scarborough Shoal, maybe Aquino should express remorse by living on Pag-asa after he steps down._


_

_
_Above, before and after: how the Vietnamese built an artificial bay and developed what had been our Pugad Island. (From Google Earth). Below, the World War II rusting landing ship we grounded on Ayungin Shoal to serve as our outpost._


_Thanks to Marcos who claimed it in the 1970s, our islands actually make up a prime piece of property in the South China Sea. But we are neglecting them, that they have become easily vulnerable to a takeover by China or Vietnam._


_Pag-asa Island is the second biggest island in the Spratlys, while Likas and Parola are the third and fifth biggest isles. Next to Vietnam, we actually had the second biggest lands in the Spratly, before the Chinese went on a reclamation frenzy that converted their shoals to artificial islands._


_What was obvious to other countries that have occupied islands in the Spratlys, escaped our government’s understanding: We have very foolishly neglected to fortify our territories._


_

_
_What islands and reefs occupied by what. Numbers before island names refer to their ranking in terms of land area. (See internet versions for better resolution of images in this article.)_


_The rusting World War II vintage landing ship grounded on Ayungin Shoal as our makeshift outpost is the pathetic demonstration of how little priority we have put on defending our sovereignty._


_Marcos’ building of an airstrip on Pag-asa Island in the mid-1970s, which required some reclamation work on each side of it, was the last infrastructure work there._


_A 2014 book (Yale University) by Bill Hayton, “The South China Sea: The Struggle for Power in Asia” reported the sorry state of Pag-asa Island:_


_“The runway… is now only usable with the utmost care. In the words of the (AFP) Western Command’s in-house magazine Kanluran, the “runway is about to be completely detached due to erosion by the sea. In early 2011, a Philippine Navy ship delivering materials to repair it ran aground on the surrounding reef. The armed forces declared that they didn’t have the resources or the skills to complete the job and appealed to the government to fund the repairs by a civilian contractor. Pledges have been made but the waves are still eating at the runway.”_


_I have been to Pag-asa (1996), and looking at the 2015 photos taken by journalists who recently visited it, nothing has changed on the island. I couldn’t even see radio antennas and cellphone cell sites in the photos._


_*Taiwan’s Taiping*
In sharp contrast to our neglect of our islands are Taiwan’s development of its Taiping Island, the biggest in the Spratlys, which is closer to Palawan than our Pag-asa, and Vietnam’s infrastructure work at Southwest Cay (Pugad Island to us), which it grabbed from us in 1975._


_Taiwan started to build an airport in 2006 on Taiping, the largest island in the Spratlys, which is closer to Palawan than our Pag-asa. It was completed in 2008, and is long enough to accommodate Hercules C-130 aircraft. In 2012, Taiwan started a $110 million project to be completed this year that would build two new deep piers, improve the runway, and install high tactical air navigation facilities, anti-aircraft guns and mortar units. That $110 million is “just” P5 billion, a fraction of the budget that was being earmarked for the Bangsamoro._


_Vietnam, a country a lot poorer than us, has even changed how Pugad Island looks from a satellite. Where there was no port at all is a rectangular bay that serves as refuge for its fishermen and navy vessels._


_So what does the Aquino government think of this?_


_At a Senate hearing on the 2015 budget, Defense Secretary Voltaire Gazmin said: “There is a Palace-ordered freeze in infrastructure work – including repairs – on military and air facilities on Pag-asa island.” The freeze, Gazmin told the Senate finance subcommittee, was meant to keep the Philippines on a “moral high ground” in its arbitration case against China. Aquino’s spokesman, Herminio Coloma, more recently echoed this absurd stance: “The repair has been stopped because we uphold the principle of keeping the status quo in the areas involved” … “This is part of our strategy for a rules-based and diplomatic approach where we have filed an arbitration case,” he said._


_Pathetically inane._


_This President must go, and the replacement can’t be an Aquino 2.0 or we will lose all our Kalayaan islands before we know it._


----------



## zhkf

fiery cross reef

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## six

A Chinese vessel rammed and sank a Vietnamese fishing boat, leaving 11 crew members drifting on the sea off Vietnam’s Hoang Sa (Paracel) Islands on Thursday.
Authorities in the central province of Quang Ngai announced Friday that the Vietnamese fishing boat codenamed QNg 90559 TS belonged to fisherfolk in Quang Ngai’s Binh Son District.
On Thursday evening, when some boats from Quang Ngai were fishing off Hoang Sa in Da Nang City, two Chinese vessels approached them and tried to prevent them from fishing by using high-capacity light and loudspeakers to shoo them away.
The Vietnamese boats moved away from the site. The QNg 90559 TS was moving rather slowly, so a Chinese ship rammed and sank it at around 11 p.m.
Eleven crew members of the Vietnamese boat clung on to bamboo baskets and lifebuoys drifting on the sea.
Around three hours later, after the Chinese ship left, another Vietnamese fishing boat came back to the area and rescued all of them.
The Quang Ngai authorities said they will pull the sunk boat out of water as evidence to protest against Chinese aggression.
At least five fishing boats from Quang Ngai have reported that they were attacked and robbed by Chinese vessels over the last two months.


----------



## 70U63

Dxmn, you need to share a link to support your post:
Chinese ships sink Vietnam’s fishing boat off Hoang Sa (Paracels)

Well, i will just wait for your foreign ministry to protest to the Chinese counterpart to verify the matter.



six said:


> A Chinese vessel rammed and sank a Vietnamese fishing boat, leaving 11 crew members drifting on the sea off Vietnam’s Hoang Sa (Paracel) Islands on Thursday.
> Authorities in the central province of Quang Ngai announced Friday that the Vietnamese fishing boat codenamed QNg 90559 TS belonged to fisherfolk in Quang Ngai’s Binh Son District.
> On Thursday evening, when some boats from Quang Ngai were fishing off Hoang Sa in Da Nang City, two Chinese vessels approached them and tried to prevent them from fishing by using high-capacity light and loudspeakers to shoo them away.
> The Vietnamese boats moved away from the site. The QNg 90559 TS was moving rather slowly, so a Chinese ship rammed and sank it at around 11 p.m.
> Eleven crew members of the Vietnamese boat clung on to bamboo baskets and lifebuoys drifting on the sea.
> Around three hours later, after the Chinese ship left, another Vietnamese fishing boat came back to the area and rescued all of them.
> The Quang Ngai authorities said they will pull the sunk boat out of water as evidence to protest against Chinese aggression.
> At least five fishing boats from Quang Ngai have reported that they were attacked and robbed by Chinese vessels over the last two months.


----------



## six

Sorry, you were not able to save since the content contained a link

For this Forum, before you can create content with links, you must first meet the minimum requirements

Minimum Requirements
The number of posts you have created must exceed: 29 (Yours: 1)
The number of days you have been registered is not enough.


----------



## CCP

six said:


> Sorry, you were not able to save since the content contained a link
> 
> For this Forum, before you can create content with links, you must first meet the minimum requirements
> 
> Minimum Requirements
> The number of posts you have created must exceed: 29 (Yours: 1)
> The number of days you have been registered is not enough.



Your avatar is the largest telescope in the world and made in China.
China making core components for world's No.1 telescope

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## 70U63

Sampaguita/SC72 And A South China Sea Peace - Analysis - Eurasia Review

_



he Sampaguita Field may offer the best opportunity to create a template-setting Joint Development Area in the South China Sea. Sources: The Economist, Philex Petroleum, Forum Energy, Grenatec.

Could the Sampaguita gas field off the Philippines offer a template for a South China Sea peace?

The concept’s worth investigating.

All of the South China Sea’s political and territorial issues come to a head with Sampaguita, an undeveloped natural gas field off the southern Philippine island of Palawan.

As the South China Sea’s most promising near-term developable gas field, joint development of Sampaguita could set a precedent for the whole region._


----------



## zhkf



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Speeder 2

zhkf said:


>



Why it hasn't been filled up yet?


----------



## zhkf

fiery cross reef

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Elkanah

What reef is above the fiery cross picture who controls it?


----------



## ahojunk

Elkanah said:


> What reef is above the fiery cross picture who controls it?


China controls the Fiery Cross (Yongshu) Island.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ahojunk

There are many reports of China reclaiming in the Spratly Islands. Not much is said about the other claimants activities and also the fact that China is the last one off the block.
.
*China is not the only country reclaiming land in South China Sea*
By Walter Pincus 
_*Walter Pincus reports on intelligence, defense and foreign policy for The Washingon Post. He first came to the paper in 1966 and has covered numerous subjects, including nuclear weapons and arms control, politics and congressional investigations. He was among Post reporters awarded the 2002 Pulitzer Prize for national reporting.*_ 

It’s time to get the facts straight on the military activities of all countries in the Spratly Islands before Washington intensifies its confrontation with China over Beijing’s intentions.

The headlines have been about China’s reclamation of some 2,000 acres from the South China Sea over the past 18 months and building military facilities on them.

Less attention has been paid — except by the Chinese — to smaller but similar reclamation and military construction efforts over the years and currently by Taiwan, Vietnam, the Philippines and Malaysia, related to islands they claim in the Spratlys.

Taiwan, for example, has claimed Itu Aba Island since 1955, one of the largest in the Spratlys. It served as a Japanese submarine base during World War II and today tankers carrying most of China’s imported oil pass nearby.

In 2008, Taiwan announced a new 3,900-foot airstrip had been completed on the island that would support search and rescue operations. It also could support military aircraft, as Taiwan’s president proved that year when he landed in a C-130 transport plane.

The island now has a radar station, meteorological center and permanent troop support facilities for a Taiwanese marine unit.

More recently, Taiwan has begun a modest reclamation effort near the airstrip, which may be part of a proposed $100 million port designed to handle frigates and coast guard cutters.

Vietnam also has been expanding its holdings in the Spratlys, which lie just seven miles east of Taiwan’s Itu Aba Island and were first occupied in 1975. On Sand Cay and West London Reef, Vietnam has been reclaiming land from the sea to build military facilities but at about one-tenth the size of China’s project.

West London Reef’s eastern sandbank has been expanded by two square miles and work on a harbor facility is underway, according to a study by the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS). On the southern portion a fourth structure is joining three multi-story military facilities. Another is going up in the northern portion.

A surveillance facility sits at the eastern side of Sand Cay with a heliport next to it. The Vietnamese are also constructing a pier and a complex of defense structures, including what may be artillery emplacements bunkers, according to the CSIS .

On the Spratly Island of Zhongye Dao, the Philippine government has had a military airstrip since 1975 known as Ranudo Air Field. The Philippine air force announced in June 2014 that $11 million had been allocated to upgrade the 4,200-foot runway and navy port facilities. Aside from the air field, which has been able to accommodate C-130s since 2002, the island has a military detachment and small civilian population.

Malaysia is also in the Spratly picture. In early 2013, the Chinese held naval exercises near James Shoals, a reef some 50 miles off Malaysia’s Borneo state of Sarawak, which Malaysia claims and is considered part of the Spratlys. In October 2013, Malaysian Defense Minister Hishamuddin Hussein announced his country’s plan to establish a marine corps that would be stationed at a new naval base to be constructed at Bintulu in Sarawak.

On Saturday, at the International Institute for Strategic Studies Shangri-La Dialogue in Singapore, Defense Secretary Ashton B. Carter acknowledged, “It’s true that almost all the nations that claim parts of the South China Sea have developed outposts over the years . . . of differing scope and degree.”

Although Carter described China as “one country [that] has gone much further and much faster than any other,” he added, “We also oppose any further militarization of disputed features.”

Carter meant China and everyone else, but that may prove difficult for the United States to accomplish.

As the defense secretary pointed out, as Asian-Pacific “nations develop, as military spending increases, and as economies thrive — we expect to see changes in how countries define and pursue their interests and ambitions.”

The United States, for example, is increasing its military presence in the area, though its mainland is 7,000 miles away and its closest states, Alaska and Hawaii, are 4,500 and 6,000 miles away respectively.

On Wednesday, Carter pointed out the “tremendous” U.S. forces already in the region: more than 350,000 military and civilian personnel, nearly 2,000 aircraft and 180 naval vessels.

On Saturday, he said, “As the United States develops new systems, [the Defense Department] will continue to bring the best platforms and people forward to the Asia-Pacific.”

Meanwhile, the Chinese in their military white paper released Tuesday took a different view of the U.S. presence and its activities. In the paper, Beijing took aim at “some external countries” — no names mentioned — that “are also busy meddling in South China Sea affairs,” along with “a tiny few [who] maintain constant close-in air and sea surveillance and reconnaissance against China.”

Should Americans be surprised that China says it is reorienting “from theater defense to trans-theater mobility,” from solely “offshore waters defense” to “open seas protection” and moving from “territorial air defense to both [air force] defense and offense?”

The Defense Department’s report on China’s military, released May 8, calmly says, “China seeks to ensure basic stability along its periphery and avoid direct confrontation with the United States in order to focus on domestic development and smooth China’s rise.”

If true, it appears that Carter will prove correct when he said Wednesday in Hawaii: “We will remain the principal security power in the Asia-Pacific for decades to come.”

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## zhkf

YongXing Island（Woody Island）

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ahojunk

zhkf said:


> YongXing Island（Woody Island）
> View attachment 238852



Rocky Island is no more, it's now part of Yongxing (Woody) Island.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## zhkf

fiery cross reef
13 July,2015

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## ahojunk

Pictures of the northeast portion, the midsection and the southwest portion.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Elkanah

Great pictures guys. I would like to know if mischief reef land is big enough for a 3km airfield as well ?


----------



## ahojunk

Elkanah said:


> Great pictures guys. I would like to know if mischief reef land is big enough for a 3km airfield as well ?


Yes.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Elkanah

Wow China really is plugging along with a well thought and planned stratagem


----------



## biendong

Int’l protest against China changing status quo in East Sea
_On June 27, numerous international friends, peace-loving people along with Vietnamese students and nationals gathered at the UN plaza in Geneva, Switzerland, to join a march and sign a letter of protest against China altering the status quo in the East Sea._

Vice Chairman of the Vietnam Youth Association in Switzerland Luu Vinh Toan delivered a speech underlining Vietnam’s legal basis and historical evidence confirming the longstanding legal sovereignty over the Hoang Sa (Paracel) and Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelagos.

The Chinese construction of artificial islands altering the status quo in the East Sea is unacceptable by the people of Vietnam and the international community, he added.

Swiss – Vietnam Friendship Association Chairwoman Anjuska Weil said countries around the world need to understand the core of the problem is that China is a threat to peace and regional and global security. In addition to supporting Vietnam in the cause of preserving its territorial sovereignty, it is essential to raise voice for the sake of peace and justice and a war free world.

Not only Vietnamese people living, studying and working in Switzerland but all peace-loving people in Switzerland and in the world should join hands in the protest against Chin’s wrongful acts in the East Sea, she said.

Many people living in Switzerland also expressed indignation over China’s disregard for the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) and the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the East Sea (DOC) and the formation of a Code of Conduct in the East Sea (COC).

The international community noticed with deep concern that after completing its illegal construction in Truong Sa, China will brazenly declare an Air Defense Identification Zone in the East Sea- a major threat to peace, stability, freedom and security and safety of navigation and aviation in the East Sea.

The media and scholars from the US, Germany, Australia, Japan, India, Switzerland and ASEAN countries have also strongly condemned China’s acts of disrespecting international law and neighboring nations’ territorial sovereignty.

_VOV_

Tags:
Int’l protest against China changing status quo in Ea

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cnleio

ahojunk said:


> Pictures of the northeast portion, the midsection and the southwest portion.
> 
> View attachment 239183
> 
> 
> View attachment 239184
> 
> 
> View attachment 239185


Well ... looks like China aircrafts can landing on this 3,000m lenght runway ... too long !


----------



## zhkf

YongXing Island

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## ahojunk

_Sansha City on Yongxing (Woody) Island, Xisha (Paracel) Islands_
-------
*Experts hired in Sansha to improve environment, city planning*
2015-07-21 10:24 | Xinhua | _Editor: Gu Liping_





The government of China's southernmost Sansha City has hired 12 experts to advise local environment protection and improving city planning, local authorities said Monday.

The environment protection commission consists of academics from China's top environment academies and professors from universities famous for construction and city management. The panel will help deal with issues such as the vulnerable eco-system and bad weather conditions, said Xiao Jie, Sansha mayor and Communist Party of China city chief.

Huang Liangmin, with the South China Sea Institute of Oceanology under the Chinese Academy of Sciences, emphasized the importance of the panel, of which he is a member.

"Sansha administers a unique and precious area of environmental assets formed over thousands of years, and they will be very difficult to restore if damaged," Huang said, adding that he and fellow members will try their best to provide scientific advice for Sansha's development.

Sansha City, on Yongxing, one of the Xisha islands in Hainan Province, was officially established in 2012 to administer the Xisha, Zhongsha and Nansha island groups and their surrounding waters in the South China Sea.

China has taken a variety of measures to enhance local environment, including building sewage plants, launching green projects and cracking down on environmental crimes.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Rechoice

Hoang Sa (Paracel) ís part òf Vietnam Sea teritory, belong to Quang Nam province. Occoupation of China in 1974 with force is illegal.


----------



## Aepsilons

*U.S. Marine and JGSDF -- Western Army deck--- shoot aboard the USS Green Bay (LPD-20)*


*



*


*



*


*



*

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Aepsilons



Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Kyle Sun

............

look like Japanese do not need sleep !

Wake up!


----------



## Hamartia Antidote

USS Green Bay (LPD-20) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Aepsilons

Peter C said:


> USS Green Bay (LPD-20) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> View attachment 239999




A beautiful ship, if i may say so myself. A larger version of our Osumi Class.


----------



## TaiShang

Across China: Young City Thrives in South China Sea

The young city of Sansha, encompassing a number of South China Sea islands,* will soon put its waste treatment facilities into use for the first time, marking a step closer to its transformation to a modern city.
*
As landfills and discharge of untreated water have affected the fragile environment, the project is aimed at addressing mounting sewage and trash generated by habitants and the flux of tourists and business people in Sansha, which will see its third birthday on Friday.

Located on Yongxing Island (as photo shows), the wastewater treatment plant is designed with a daily capacity of 1,800 tonnes.

http://en.people.cn/n/2015/0722/c90000-8924652.html

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## TaiShang

*
China Deploys Ultra-Modern Destroyer to Base on S. China Sea Island / Sputnik International

The Chinese navy reportedly has commissioned the second of its Type 052D Luyang III class destroyers earlier this month and deployed the ship to its fleet in the South China Sea.*

The destroyer, dubbed Yangsha, is likely to operate from the People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) base at Yalong Bay on Hainan Island, reports Jane's Defense Weekly.





China Beefing Up Its Anti-Submarine Warfare Capabilities

The Type 052D features a universal vertical launch weapon system capable of firing anti-air, anti-surface, anti-submarine, and land attack missiles – a system not found on the preceding Type 052C.

Earlier this month, the seventh Type 052D emerged from the building shed at a shipyard in Shanghai and joined the sixth member of class which is currently fitting out, Jane’s reported. Builders have also made significant progress on the hulls of the eighth and ninth ships, circulating photographs show.

Type 054A Jiangkai II class frigates Yangzhou and Handan – the 19th and 20th ships of the class – have been handed over to the PLAN and are believed to have been commissioned, or will be shortly, Jane’s reports. Four more are under construction at two shipyards.





China Starts 10-Day Navy Drills in Disputed Waters of South China Sea

On July 17, the latest Type 056 Jiangdao class corvette was launched at a shipyard in Huangpu. This is the 27th of the class and the eighth to be equipped with variable depth and towed array sonars.

Reports suggest that two days later, the 22nd of class, Suqian, also an ASW variant, was commissioned. Earlier in the month, the sixth Type 056 to be built at the Lushun Liaonan shipyard was launched, Jane’s reports.

A week earlier, two auxiliaries were commissioned – the semisubmersible heavy lift ship Donghaidao and Type 904A resupply ship Junshanhu.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## biendong

Paracel is Island of Vietnam from long time ago.

Old map of Vietnam.


----------



## TaiShang

biendong said:


> Paracel is Island of Vietnam from long time ago.
> 
> Old map of Vietnam.



Nice artistic description. literary circles must be allowed to express their wildest imagination.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## DoTell

Hey Japanese, until you clowns have the balls to get your islands back, all that mighty maritime exercise means sh!tBetter kiss that big fat *** of your master's some more. Meanwhile enjoy the following picture of reality instead


----------



## S10

biendong said:


> Paracel is Island of Vietnam from long time ago.
> 
> Old map of Vietnam.


It never belonged to you, and never will.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## biendong

S10 said:


> It never belonged to you, and never will.



Aggressor has big mouth. Paracel, Spratly belong to Vietnam for ever.


----------



## zhkf

NanWei Islang

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## fadine

_Spratly Island, Vietnam._

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## zhkf



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## six

Japan-China Spat: Beijing Plans To Tap Oil Field Near Disputed Waters, Tokyo Says

TOKYO — Japan released aerial photos of Chinese oil and gas exploration platforms Wednesday it said were close to disputed waters and proved that Beijing was planning to tap into an oil field that straddles both countries' territory.

"While the objects may be on the Chinese side of the dividing line, for China to unilaterally develop the natural resources there is extremely regrettable," Japan's main government's main spokesman Yoshihide Suga told reporters during a press conference.

In 2008, Japan and China agreed to jointly develop resources in the area, which is claimed by both countries.

Image: Aerial photo
Aerial photos of Chinese oil and gas exploration platforms in the East China Sea. Japanese Foreign Ministry Website / Japanese Defense Ministry
The new aerial photographs showed 16 Chinese platforms in the area, 12 of which have been built since 2013, Suga said.

"We decided to disclose what we can show, as there's been increasing interest home and abroad over China's unilateral efforts to change the status quo," Suga said, referring to a territorial dispute involving Vietnam and the Philippines over the Spratly Islands in South China Sea.

Related: China Has Some News About Disputed-Islands Project

On Tuesday, Japan's defense minister Gen Nakatani called on China to stop building the platforms, adding that Beijing's activities "were also of international concern."

China pushed back after Nakatani's statement.

"This kind of action completely lays bare the two-faced nature of Japan's foreign policy and has a detrimental impact on peace and stability in the Asia Pacific region," China's defense ministry said in a statement on Tuesday.


----------



## NiceGuy

six said:


> Japan-China Spat: Beijing Plans To Tap Oil Field Near Disputed Waters, Tokyo Says
> 
> TOKYO — Japan released aerial photos of Chinese oil and gas exploration platforms Wednesday it said were close to disputed waters and proved that Beijing was planning to tap into an oil field that straddles both countries' territory.
> 
> "While the objects may be on the Chinese side of the dividing line, for China to unilaterally develop the natural resources there is extremely regrettable," Japan's main government's main spokesman Yoshihide Suga told reporters during a press conference.
> 
> In 2008, Japan and China agreed to jointly develop resources in the area, which is claimed by both countries.
> 
> Image: Aerial photo
> Aerial photos of Chinese oil and gas exploration platforms in the East China Sea. Japanese Foreign Ministry Website / Japanese Defense Ministry
> The new aerial photographs showed 16 Chinese platforms in the area, 12 of which have been built since 2013, Suga said.
> 
> "We decided to disclose what we can show, as there's been increasing interest home and abroad over China's unilateral efforts to change the status quo," Suga said, referring to a territorial dispute involving Vietnam and the Philippines over the Spratly Islands in South China Sea.
> 
> Related: China Has Some News About Disputed-Islands Project
> 
> On Tuesday, Japan's defense minister Gen Nakatani called on China to stop building the platforms, adding that Beijing's activities "were also of international concern."
> 
> China pushed back after Nakatani's statement.
> 
> "This kind of action completely lays bare the two-faced nature of Japan's foreign policy and has a detrimental impact on peace and stability in the Asia Pacific region," China's defense ministry said in a statement on Tuesday.


JP need a closer tie wt VN and other sub-Mekong nations to stop CN there. USA wont come to help


----------



## 70U63

Japan changed the status quo in East China Sea few years ago, now they use the excuse to get involve In SCS.


six said:


> "We decided to disclose what we can show, as there's been increasing interest home and abroad over China's unilateral efforts to change the status quo," Suga said, referring to a territorial dispute involving Vietnam and the Philippines over the Spratly Islands in South China Sea.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## NiceGuy

70U63 said:


> Japan changed the status quo in East China Sea few years ago, now they use the excuse to get involve In SCS.


Whoever can control SCS(east sea) will control JP-TWan-Korea


----------



## six

Wow!

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## zhkf

Nan Hua Reef(Cornwallis South Reef), China.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ahojunk

*China's youngest city Sansha turns three*
2015-07-24 13:39 | Ecns.cn | Editor:Yao Lan

A flag-raising ceremony held on a square in front of Sansha city government's main building on Yongxing Island, a part of the Xisha Islands, July 24, 2015. Nine islands and islets simultaneously held a flag-raising ceremony to celebrate the third anniversary of establishing Sansha city. Sansha, on Yongxing, one of the Xisha islands, was officially established in July in 2012 to administer the Xisha, Zhongsha and Nansha island groups and their surrounding waters in the South China Sea. (Photo: China News Service/Luo Yunfei)

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cirr

six said:


> Wow!



Rumours are rife that underwater missile launch platform being developed by CAS to counter US' CBGs will be “hidden” in the lagoon。

Simply loving it。

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## ahojunk

The daily life of residents on Zhaoshu Island in Xisha Islands. Zhaoshu is the northern most island in Xisha.
IMHO, the following pictures give an indication of life on the island.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Elkanah

Cirr underwater missle and anti submarine platforms in the SCS will be key to China being able to resist the USA belief that only they have the right to dictate the rules that China must abide by in perpetuity. China is rather unfortunately the only nation that has the potential to ensure that the world does not continue to be oppressed by the current Eurocentric order established by the white nations of the earth through the naked subjugation and enslavement of the worlds non white peoples during their brief era of technological superiority. I pray China is able the challenge the Eurocentric oppressive order and indeed eventually establish a new world order in which the white populations of this planet are no longer able to enforce rules that by and large are in place to ensure their hegemony over their formerly enslaved and colonized fellow inhabitants of the third planet form the sun

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## S10

biendong said:


> Aggressor has big mouth. Paracel, Spratly belong to Vietnam for ever.


If it helps you sleep, go ahead and believe in your day dream.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Elkanah

That Vietnam is now an Uncle Tom nation is not in doubt

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## zhkf



Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## fadine

Paracel, Spratly belong to Vietnam for ever

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## dy1022

Chinese land, Chinese sea, Chinese rules, Chinese call!


simple as that!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## apiSubmarine

Chinese ghost ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## tntBien123

Paracel, Spratly belong to Vietnam for ever

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## biendong

S10 said:


> If it helps you sleep, go ahead and believe in your day dream.



Our island is there. China can't swallow our Islands in to your stomach. Chinese aggressors get lost from sea territory of Vietnam.


----------



## six

Chinese ship rams Vietnam fishing boat 2 times off Spratlys
*A Vietnamese fishing boat was operating off Spratly archipelago in the East Vietnam Sea when it was rammed by an iron-clad Chinese ship on Tuesday, the local vessel’s captain reported. *

The incident occurred at 1:00 pm, when the fishing vessel, from the south-central province of Binh Dinh, was operating off Song Tu Tay Island, part of Truong Sa, Nguyen Nhat Ngoc told the border guard station at Quy Nhon Port on Friday.

A strange iron-clad Chinese ship numbered 994 suddenly appeared and approached Ngoc’s vessel, sounding its horn loudly, according to Nguoi Lao Dong (Laborer) newspaper. 

The foreign vessel then fired its water cannon on the local ship, the 53-year-old boat captain said.

“In order to avoid a possible collision, I tried to steer my boat away, but the strange ship still chased after and then rammed it on the right side,” Ngoc recounted.

The hard hit broke the exhaust pipe of the fishing boat’s engine and smashed a light system of the vessel, he said.

As the damaged vessel continued running to escape, the foreign pursued it and made a second crash, this time onto its left side, the captain said.

The second attack broke up another lighting system of his boat, he added.

The Chinese vessel then continued chasing the local vessel for 30 minutes before leaving the Vietnamese waters, according to the captain.

The foreign vessel rushed toward the Vietnamese boat when crewmembers were sleeping, according to Luong Xuan Nguyen, one of the crew.

“After seeing the foreign ship, I stood up and rushed to close a door on our boat, but many onboard that vessel then threw a lot of jars at us,” he recalled, adding the foreigners wore camouflage battledress.

Nguyen said he did not know whether that Chinese ship was a military or civil one, although it was seen equipped with many guns, according to _Nguoi Lao Dong_.

The attack caused no casualty but resulted in a damage of at least VND40 million (US$1,840), captain Ngoc said.


----------



## zhkf



Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## six

Hai Yang Shi You 982

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## fadine

Paracel, Spratly belong to Vietnam for ever.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ahojunk

*Sansha city outlines plan on environment*
By Xu Wei and Huang Yiming in Sansha, Hainan (China Daily)
Updated: 2015-07-25 08:09






China's southernmost city of Sansha, which administers a number of South China Sea islands, will soon launch waste treatment facilities as local authorities intensify efforts to protect the local maritime environment.

The city government will soon bring into use a wastewater treatment plant and a garbage treatment plant on Yongxing Island, the Sansha government seat, its news office said in a statement on Friday, which was the third anniversary of the city's establishment.

Xiao Jie, the mayor of Sansha, said protecting the environment and the local ecology will be top priorities for the city government in the near future as it pushes forward improvements to local infrastructure.

Meanwhile, the Sansha authority has launched a fund of 10 million yuan ($1.6 million) a year to encourage fishermen to switch to other sectors, including catering services and the public service sector.

The city will create new job opportunities for its fishing population through the public service sector, including transportation between islands, landscaping and sanitation projects, he said.

Five family restaurants have already been opened by fishermen to cater to visitors on the island.

"We need to improve the income of the fishermen as we encourage them to take up other trades," Xiao said, adding that the authority worried that overfishing near the islets in Sansha might threaten the maritime ecology.

Sansha administers the Xisha, Zhongsha and Nansha islands and their surrounding waters in the South China Sea.

The water treatment plant will process wastewater produced by 6,000 people on a daily basis, while the garbage treatment plant will process more than 2 metric tons of garbage daily.

Improving the infrastructure and living conditions of residents will be a priority for the city government in the near future. "The ultimate purpose of infrastructure improvements is to make the life of residents much easier and improve their happiness index," the mayor said.

The city government has also launched two new departments, a bureau of taxation and a marriage registration service, on Yongxing Island, as the city government seeks to increase its administrative functions.

Additionally, a refrigerated warehouse and a supply center for the fishermen of the Xisha, Zhongsha and Nansha islands were inaugurated on Yongxing Island on Friday.

------------------------------------------------
*Across China: Young City Thrives in South China Sea*
(Xinhua) 23:32, July 22, 2015

SANSHA, Hainan. The young city of Sansha, encompassing a number of South China Sea islands, will soon put its waste treatment facilities into use for the first time, marking a step closer to its transformation to a modern city.

The project is aimed at addressing mounting sewage and trash generated by habitants and the flux of tourists and business people in Sansha, which will see its third birthday on Friday.

Since the city was established to administer about two million square kilometers of islands and territorial waters, it has become an increasingly comfortable home for hundreds of fishermen, government employees and troops.

However, landfills and discharge of untreated water have affected the fragile environment, said Chen Rufeng, an official of Yongxing Island, Sansha's government seat.

"The new facilities are being tested and are expected to start operation before long," he said.

Located on Yongxing Island, the wastewater treatment plant is designed with a daily capacity of 1,800 tonnes, equal to the amount of wastewater generated by about 6,000 people. It will also produce reclaimed water for cleaning roads and landscaping.

The garbage treatment project consists of a number of collection stations built on scattered islands, including a large collection and treatment plant on Yongxing Island, with a daily handling capacity of two tonnes. In addition, a vessel was manufactured to transport the garbage gathered on smaller islands to Yongxing.

Life on Sansha's islands has become more pleasant over the past three years, mainly due to improved infrastructure. In 2014, the local government managed to provide access to desalinated water and electricity, generated by solar power and gasoline, on all inhabited islands.

Currently, a government-led housing project is helping accommodate fishermen who live in cabins that are vulnerable to storms.

Construction of villas have started on Yongxing and Zhaoshu islands which are expected to house more than 100 families. An official with the city government told Xinhua that they might move in for free or only need to pay a small amount of rent.

Since January this year, a large supply ship with a displacement of about 8,000 tonnes began a route carrying daily necessities and food to the islets from the island province of Hainan, which is hundreds of kilometers away, up to twice a week, greatly relieving supply shortages on the islets.

Prior to that, a ship with a displacement of 2,500 tonnes would run the route once or twice a month.

"In the past, all my diet consisted of potato, onion, seafood and pork. But now I can find all kinds of vegetables and fruits, although they are more expensive here," said a man surnamed Wang, who frequently visits Sansha for business.

The new supply ship also helps Sansha's deep-sea fish reach more buyers in inland markets, sometimes as far as Beijing. Fisherman Fu Zaichou said fresh seafood can be rapidly shipped to Hainan and then sent to Beijing after two days on the road. "If Beijing customers like our fish, we will surely make much more money in the future."

Though fishing remains a traditional pillar of local economy, the local government is encouraging more residents to switch to the tourism service sector, catering for the buoyant cruise industry that has seen nearly 10,000 tourists since the service was launched in April, 2013.

This year, 10 million yuan (1.6 million U.S. dollars) was earmarked by the city government as financial support to those who want to start their own business, such as restaurants at scenic spots.

A snack chain store serving stewed duck neck along Beijing Road on Yongxing Island, has proven a big hit, with long queues seen nearly every night. "We made 5,000 yuan a day, and we run out of stock very often," said Wang Sisi, manager of the store.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## six

Fishermen's new home on Woody Islang

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ahojunk

six said:


> Fishermen's new home on Woody Islang


If this is fishermen's new home, it would be a massive upgrade. See below of picture of the old shack on the island.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Speeder 2

six said:


> Fishermen's new home on Woody Islang



Where's garage? I meant yacht parking?


----------



## S10

biendong said:


> Our island is there. China can't swallow our Islands in to your stomach. Chinese aggressors get lost from sea territory of Vietnam.


You're like a three year old kid crying "MINE! MINE! ALL MINE!" when his toys got taken away. We're going to take back what's ours one by one, and all you can do is cry.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## biendong

S10 said:


> You're like a three year old kid crying "MINE! MINE! ALL MINE!" when his toys got taken away. We're going to take back what's ours one by one, and all you can do is cry.



Get lost from Islands of Vietnam, Chinese sea pirates, criminals.!!! your territory is in North China.


----------



## S10

biendong said:


> Get lost from Islands of Vietnam, Chinese sea pirates, criminals.!!! your territory is in North China.


Cry some more.

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## biendong

S10 said:


> Cry some more.



Vietnamese people never forget our heroes, whos were killed by Chinese aggressors in Paracel and in Spratly.


----------



## sweetgrape

CCG 2901 sea trial.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## dy1022

sweetgrape said:


> CCG 2901 sea trial.






Wow, seems like Vietnam will cry even harder!

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## 70U63

I think this is for the East China Sea... other member can confirm.


dy1022 said:


> Wow, seems like Vietnam will cry even harder!


----------



## sweetgrape

70U63 said:


> I think this is for the East China Sea... other member can confirm.


Right, can get it from the number, if I am not wrong, the first digit of the number, "1" mean, it belong North Sea； "2", East China Sea； "3" South China Sea.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ahojunk

Some pictures of tourism related activities on Yongxing Island in Xisha Island group.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## biendong

Hoang Sa (Paracel) belong to Vietnam long time ago. Occupation with force of China is illegal.


----------



## opruh

biendong said:


> Hoang Sa (Paracel) belong to Vietnam long time ago. Occupation with force of China is illegal.


Go cry to your mama's lap.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## biendong

opruh said:


> Go cry to your mama's lap.



false flag, don't troll none sens.


----------



## zhkf

Vietnam belong to China long time ago

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Zero_wing

opruh said:


> Go cry to your mama's lap.



Change your flag false flager your been called on your bull a long time ago


----------



## cnleio

12,000-ton new patrol ship for China Coast Guard
... ...







sweetgrape said:


> CCG 2901 sea trial.


12,000-ton CHINA COAST GUARD

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## TaiShang

six said:


> Wow!



Amazing development.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Elkanah

TaiShang said:


> Amazing development.


Can't wait to see what they have done on mischief island


----------



## LowPost

* China, ASEAN vow to maintain peace on South China Sea
*
BEIJING, July 29 (Xinhua) -- Senior diplomats from China and Southeast Asia gathered in China's Tianjin City on Wednesday to discuss formulating a Code of Conduct (COC) for the South China Sea and vowed to maintain peace and stability in the region.

The 9th China-ASEAN senior officials' meeting on the implementation of the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea (DOC) was held in a "friendly and candid" manner, according to a press release from the Chinese Foreign Ministry.

China and ASEAN pledged to enhance practical maritime cooperation, work toward a full and effective implementation of the DOC and continue consultations on formulating the COC, the release said.

As the first political document signed between China and ASEAN on the South China Sea issue, the DOC is regarded by senior officials as a milestone in maintaining maritime peace and stability, it said.

Working to achieve full and effective implementation of the DOC is in the common interests of all parties and will contribute to the healthy development of the China-ASEAN strategic partnership, it said.

A work plan on the implementation of the DOC for 2015-2016 was adopted at the meeting. The leaders also discussed the establishment of technological committees on navigation safety and search and rescue, maritime science and combating transnational crime, according to the release.

China and ASEAN agreed to continue to work on the establishment of a hotline to respond to maritime search and rescue and other emergencies at sea, the release said.

China and ASEAN exchanged views on formulating preventive measures for risks at sea to avoid accidents and effectively manage the maritime situation while the COC is being formulated, it said. 

China, ASEAN vow to maintain peace on South China Sea - Xinhua | English.news.cn

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## six



Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## zhkf

**
*Vietnamese president greeted with Chinese patriotic music at national concert*
*



*

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## cirr

A new wave of CCG vessel building is here






40 beauties？50 for this batch？

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## opruh

@Nihonjin1051 senpai please donate aircraft-carrier to the philippines.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## 55100864

How about convert our CV16 into this:

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## VNAF

tntBien123 said:


> Paracel, Spratly belong to Vietnam for ever



_Exactly, Spratly and Paracel islands belong to Vietnam .
South west cay 



_


----------



## ahojunk

Recent naval exercises in the South China Sea, on 22-July-2015. The video is 2:36 long. Enjoy!

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## ahojunk

Some pictures of CCG35102.

Being built.





Just put into active service.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## zhkf

VNAF said:


> _Exactly, Spratly and Paracel islands belong to Vietnam .
> South west cay
> 
> 
> 
> _


You will see this soon

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cnleio

"Made in China".gif

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## LowPost

cnleio said:


> "Made in China".gif



Looks like they made good progress

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Elkanah

Any pics for mischief reef available for late July August 2015 ?


----------



## park tea young

Rechoice said:


> Hoang Sa (Paracel) ís part òf Vietnam Sea teritory, belong to Quang Nam province. Occoupation of China in 1974 with force is illegal.


so，you can say Huangsha island is part of vietnam by this map. on the same as you say，this map could provid a evidence that vietnam is apart of China？ Don't be forget that written in chinese.and the map mean“ china civil map”，that means vietnam is a part of china.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Elkanah

Hey all is there a thread dedicated to just pictures of China's scs islands looking for the latest on the construction of facilities on them would love to be pointed in the right direction many thanks


----------



## Rechoice

park tea young said:


> so，you can say Huangsha island is part of vietnam by this map. on the same as you say，this map could provid a evidence that vietnam is apart of China？ Don't be forget that written in chinese.and the map mean“ china civil map”，that means vietnam is a part of china.



you are idiot. Japanese has been used Han Zi to writing until now aday. Does it mean Japan is part of China. When you are not false flagger, When Korean has used Han Zi to writing in the past ? does it mean Korean is part of China ?

The map I posted is about Quang Nam province of Vietnam in our old book.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## VNAF

Reclaim, reclaim ..... Photo taken at Sinh Ton island ( Sin Cowe island)

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fadine

Prepare materials for renovations islands in Spratly Islands.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## killmkys

SUBI REEF, SOUTH CHINA SEA - AUGUST 1, 2015: DigitalGlobe imagery of the Subi Reef in the South China Sea, a part of the Spratly Islands group,China.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## TaiShang

*China's islands building in South China Sea "too late, too slow" *






I wish China will speed up its island genesis program. We are way behind Vietnam and the Philippines.

***

*China FM: 'freeze reef construction' proposal on SCS impractical*

Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi said at the press conference in Singapore that many proposals have been made on the South China Sea issue, while the most important thing is the disputing parties reach an agreement through equal consultations, which makes the proposals more feasible. Wang also mentioned that the idea of freezing all reef construction was not proposed recently, as early as the idea came out lastyear, consensus still has not been reached.

As Wang illustrated, on the "freeze" proposal, parities have different opinions on what to freeze, how to set up a standard, and who ought to make the judgement. Proposals like this may seem just and sound in the beginning, but they are actually impractical to operate.

According to Wang, China has proposed discussing precautionary measures on marine risk control under the framework of the South China Sea Code of Conduct. Any proposals and ideas can have open discussions on this platform to see whether they are recognized by all parities.

China FM: 'freeze reef construction' proposal on SCS impractical - People's Daily Online

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Rechoice

The invader has built his stronghold in lake of his neighbors.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TaiShang

Rechoice said:


> The invader has built his stronghold in lake of his neighbors.



But it is too late and too slow. I do not know how would we close the gap with Vietnam and the Philippines in terms of construction.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## opruh

Rechoice said:


> The invader has built his stronghold in lake of his neighbors.


China is just trying to drive away the squatters or what you call informal settlers away from South China Sea.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Rechoice

TaiShang said:


> But it is too late and too slow. I do not know how would we close the gap with Vietnam and the Philippines in terms of construction.



Chinese invader get lost from sea territory of Vietnam.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## VNAF

Rechoice said:


> Chinese invader get lost from sea territory of Vietnam.


Don't worry. We have just deployed new EW system, Extra MLRS ( firing range 150km), SAM, ... at Spratly islands.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## killmkys




----------



## TaiShang

Rechoice said:


> Chinese invader get lost from sea territory of Vietnam.



Vietnamese invader get lost from sea territory of China.


----------



## Rechoice

TaiShang said:


> Vietnamese invader get lost from sea territory of China.



Chinese aggressor has his big mouth to lying.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## killmkys

Paracel Islands

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## ahojunk

killmkys said:


> Paracel Islands



Do you know the names of these islands?


----------



## killmkys

ahojunk said:


> Do you know the names of these islands?


1-2:Qilian Yu (Seven connected islets)
3:Xi Shazhou (West shoal)
4:Bei Dao (North island)

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## VNAF

West London reef - Đá Tây island - Spratly island .
Vietnam is reclaiming land at Đá Tây island ( West London reef ).


----------



## zhkf



Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## fadine

Amphitrite Group, Paracel Islands, Vietnam





Cornwallis South Reef, Spratly Islands, Vietnam







ahojunk said:


> Do you know the names of these islands?





fadine said:


> Amphitrite Group, Paracel Islands, Vietnam

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## killmkys

Mischief Reef

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Elkanah

Curiously I see no sign of airfield on mischief island

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ahojunk

Elkanah said:


> Curiously I see no sign of airfield on mischief island



But there is a nice big lake to land the amphibious AG600 airplane.....

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ahojunk

Recent picture (low resolution) of Yongshu Island, dated 12-Aug-2015:-






Recent picture of Johnson South and Collins, dated 11-Aug-2015:-






Recent picture of Collins dated 11-Aug-2015:-
Some construction activity here but not sure what it is.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cirr

A new round of land reclamation and construction is about to begin on the Xisha Islands（Paracel Islands），with the aim of populating all as yet uninhabitated islands and reefs：

三沙市加快在岛礁建设生态环保“五大站”-中新网






Our Vietnamese friends sure will like this very much。@ahojunk

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Elkanah

Very nice China is a nation truly recovering from the brutal colonial history of European nations


----------



## killmkys

Dongmen Island (Hugh Island), 16-Aug-2015

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ahojunk

@cirr 

Besides the new round of reclamation and construction in Xisha Islands, China has announced the following.
This is a well plan multi-prong strategy.

-------------------------
China patrols Sansha islands to strengthen ecology protection

Photos taken on Aug. 14, 2015 show a ship of Sansha law enforcement department leaving the port of Yongxing Island to patrol Yongle Islands in Sansha, south China's Hainan Province. The patrol team which is made up of more than 30 law enforcement staff and experts on ocean ecological protection, aims to strengthen protection of the ecology of Xisha Islands and surrounding waters. (Xinhua/Wei Hua)

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## 64:0

killmkys said:


> Dongmen Island (Hugh Island), 16-Aug-2015


----------



## cirr

More CCG vessels on their way 

*CCG 31239*






*CCG 31240*






*CCG 31241*






all destined for the SCS。Or is it the ECS？

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## ahojunk

@cirr 
More recent pictures of CCG. Enjoy!

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## cirr

ahojunk said:


> @cirr
> More recent pictures of CCG. Enjoy!
> 
> View attachment 247889
> 
> 
> View attachment 247890
> 
> 
> View attachment 247891
> 
> 
> View attachment 247892
> 
> 
> View attachment 247893
> 
> 
> View attachment 247894
> 
> 
> View attachment 247895



Yes，these ships form part of a CCG flotilla based in Shanghai。

Now let's take a look at what is going on inside a corner of JN Shipbuilding：

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## TaiShang

China is determined as hell to ensure freedom and safety of navigation in the SCS. 

What is missing is an ADIZ.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cirr

TaiShang said:


> China is determined as hell to ensure freedom and safety of navigation in the SCS.
> 
> What is missing is an ADIZ.



and high-speed passenger-cargo catamarans






Fortunately Inst。701 of CSIC has completed the development work and we are likely to see the twin-hulled ship roam the SCS in a few years。

In American military speak，it is known as Spearhead-class joint high speed vessel (JHSV)。

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ahojunk

Nice looking pictures of *CCG 31239, CCG 31240, CCG 31241. *

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cirr

Spearhead-class joint high speed vessel (JHSV)


ahojunk said:


> Nice looking pictures of *CCG 31239, CCG 31240, CCG 31241. *
> 
> View attachment 248959
> 
> 
> View attachment 248960
> 
> 
> View attachment 248961



There are 4 of the class。Wondering what use is being made of the 4th。Export？To which country？Sri Lanka？

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fadine



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Rechoice

fadine said:


>



There is Paracel, Island of Vietnam. It is stated in old map printed in Europa.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Elkanah

Lmfao


----------



## Rechoice

Old map of Vietnam. It is stated that Paracel (Hoang Sa) and Spratly (Truong Sa) is Island of Vietnam.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## 64:0

Paracel Islands

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

64:0 said:


> Paracel Islands



This is illegal occupation of Chinese aggressors from 1974 on Paracel, the islands of Vietnam..

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## killmkys

What happened in recent months at Paracel Islands, You will sea more pictures like this in the future.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Rechoice

64:0 said:


> View attachment 249441
> 
> It's hard to communicate with a low IQ animals



Who is low IQ looks like this. ..He don't know how to hang up or down this idiot nine dashed map.





A Chinese worker holds up an officially approved map of China that includes the islands and maritime area that Beijing claims in the South China Sea. Asian nations have disputed China's nine-dash line. Photo: AP


----------



## 64:0

Rechoice said:


> Who is low IQ looks like this. ..He don't know how to hang up or down this idiot nine dashed map.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Chinese worker holds up an officially approved map of China that includes the islands and maritime area that Beijing claims in the South China Sea. Asian nations have disputed China's nine-dash line. Photo: AP

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

64:0 said:


> View attachment 249458


 Our heroes sacrificed their life to protect sovereignty of Vietnam, who were killed by Chinese PLA aggressors in 1988.


----------



## 64:0

Rechoice said:


> Our heroes sacrificed their life to protect sovereignty of Vietnam, who were killed by Chinese PLA aggressors in 1988.



You will have more heroes next time.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## CN.Black

Rechoice said:


> Our heroes sacrificed their life to protect sovereignty of Vietnam, who were killed by Chinese PLA aggressors in 1988.


All your 288 'heroes' died without killing one PLA soldier.LOL.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Rechoice

64:0 said:


> You will have more heroes next time.





CN.Black said:


> All your 288 'heroes' died without killing one PLA soldier.LOL.



Dirty chinese aggressors ! So chinese stop crying why Japanese killed you brutally in WW II.


----------



## 64:0

Rechoice said:


> Dirty chinese aggressors ! So chinese stop crying why Japanese killed you brutally in WW II.


next time

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Rechoice

Vietnamese people never forget our heroes. Whos were killed by Chinese aggressors.


----------



## 64:0

Viet said:


> such act of intentional killing is close to war crimes. that is nothing you can be proud of. or the japanese can be proud of killing chinese like parasites as they had done after the fall of singapore in WW 2? where japanese soldiers cut off heads of chinese men and hung them on trees in public places.
> 
> 
> bro, instead of posting such phrases and stories, I suggest you post pictures and tell stories how we killed them.
> 
> let me begin. for example this: in a series of great battles against the chinese army (dai viet-ming china war), is this one remarkable: the decisive battle of chi-lang pass of 1427, when our army encircled the 150,000 chinese soldiers under the command of liu sheng. they came as reinforcing army from yunnan and quangxi. in order to help the invasion army being stuck in north vietnam. 100,000 of them had not survived the battle. the rest went to prisoner camp.
> 
> 
> change your flag little idiot.


----------



## Viet

statue of Le Loi. the man who led the vietnamese army to the victory over the ming chinese.


----------



## 大汉奸柳传志

Rechoice said:


> Vietnamese people never forget our heroes. Whos were killed by Chinese aggressors.



They were not heroes，they were thieves and cowards. Why do Vietnam want to honor them？Not to mention the defeat was a total humiliation.

I would suggest the VCP bury the records and deny it ever happened

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## 70U63

Most of you guys are adult, stop calling each other monkey and aggressor.
You guys have been doing the same thing over and over again for the past year.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## killmkys

Huayang Island(Cuarteron Island)
Date:Aug 23

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## LacViet

US Assistant Secretary: COC in East Sea should be open to outsiders
_VietNamNet Bridge - Acting Assistant Secretary of State responsible for the issues in East Asia - Pacific Joseph Yun said that the negotiation process of the Code of Conduct (COC) in the East Sea should be opened to outsiders, because the East Sea is not only the matter between China and the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN), but also the global issue._

*Claims of sovereignty must be consistent with UNCLOS




*
_Acting Assistant Secretary of State responsible for the issues in East Asia - Pacific Joseph Yun_.

As Kurt Campbell's successor in the role of assistant secretary in charge of East Asian - Pacific issues of Secretary of State John Kerry, the speech by Joseph Yun at the International Conference on the East Sea held by CSIS in early June received attention because it is seen as an indication of U.S. policy towards the East Sea in the second term of President Obama.

The speech by Mr. Yun confirms six critical points of the U.S. policy towards the East Sea dispute. First of all, the U.S. does not support any side in the claims and disputes of sovereignty and territorial waters. However, the claims must be consistent with international law, particularly the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea. Yun emphasized the important point that the claims to maritime sovereignty must be based on soil characteristics which that country possesses.

Although the U.S. does not support any side in the East Sea dispute, this country has huge benefits from the settlement of disputes by the parties concerned. The U.S. diplomat mentioned two fundamental interests of America - freedom of navigation and the right to exploit natural resources in the East Sea in a legal way. Thus, the U.S. protests any party that threatens, forces or use of force in the East Sea disputes and support the pursuit of peaceful means, such as diplomatic negotiations, mediation, with the help of third parties or international arbitration. Referring to the initiatives of the Philippines to bring the case to the international court on the Law of the Sea, Mr. Yun recommended that if a related party chooses international arbitration, the concerned parties should not take retaliatory measures by threats or compulsion.

*COC negotiations should open for outsiders*

About future disputes over the East Sea conflict, Mr. Yun stressed the importance of maintaining the status quo and recommended related parties not take any unilateral acts to change the status quo.

He said that the COC is the key to bring peaceful resolutions for the disputes and prevent conflicts in the East Sea. The U.S. officials hoped that the two sides can begin formal discussions on COC this year.

According to Mr. Yun, the COC cannot be the version two of the Declaration of the Conduct of Parties in the East Sea (DOC). To make the COC effective, in one side, it needs to have a certain legal binding, on the other side, the negotiations of the COC should open to outside opinions because the East Sea is not only the matter between China and ASEAN, but also the global playing field.

Related to the comments of some attendants that the COC negotiation process is too slow, Mr. Yun noted that it took 10 years for the DOC to be implemented since the signing, so the COC will also require more time and the effort of all parties. One reason why this process is so long is the "ASEAN way" that seeks consensus from all parties.

Apparently not being satisfied with this explanation, expert Bonnie Glaser questioned whether the U.S. should encourage other countries, whether having or not having claims of sovereignty to voice support for the use of international arbitration to settle conflicts as the way the Philippines is pursuing in order to put pressure on China. So far, only the U.S., Japan and Vietnam have publicly supported this initiative of the Philippines.

Mr. Yun said that ASEAN unity on this issue is significant and it may take time to achieve a common ASEAN stance on this issue. ASEAN is facing many challenges to reach agreement because there are many different perspectives among the claimants.

Mr. Yun recommended being patient with the COC process because sovereignty disputes often last long and difficult to have radical solutions.

"It is important to maintain dialogue and negotiation between the parties so that security and stability in the region is not disturbed. Maybe someone will criticize that speaking is only speaking but in the context of complex and tense disputes, the dialogue is not a bad idea," said Yun.

*Proactive engagement*

The six points that Yun presented at the 3rd International Conference on the East Sea dispute is the continuation of the East Sea policy that was established in the first term of President Obama and Secretary of State Hilary Clinton. Not criticizing China directly, the speech by Yun indirectly mentioned this country when he asserted that the U.S. protests the use of threats, coercion and force, as well as the excessive demands of sovereignty that are not based on soil characteristics they possess (according to UNCLOS, countries have the right to claim 12 nautical mile territorial waters around the islands that they legally own. Consequently, the U-shaped line that China claims has no legal value – the author).

However, many scholars at the conference said that the US should make more proactive engagement in the East Sea dispute. They highlighted the fact that China has always ignored the US’ arguments such as maintaining the status quo, not threatening or threatening to use force ... Since then, a number of scholars questioned that is it the time for the US to consider a more effective strategy framework to make pressure on China to force this country to behave accordingly.

In response, Mr. Yun said the current policy on the East Sea of the US is compatible with the situation. Despite some clashes and tensions between the parties, it was said that "this is not a black or white issue."

He emphasized that the important thing is that the awareness of the East Sea in the U.S. leaders is increasing and the US is making a more proactive engagement with ASEAN more actively. He said that in June Secretary of State Kerry would attend the ASEAN Summit and the ARF in Brunei and visited some Southeast Asian countries. This October, President Obama will attend the East Asia Summit. Both trips, according to Mr. Yun, are the affirmation of the positive engagement policy of the U.S. with the region from the highest levels of leadership. ASEAN is a key pillar of the U.S. policy on rebalancing and any risk in the East Sea will affect the development of the global economy. Mr. Yun said in meetings of all levels, Americans always urged China to negotiate the COC.

"I understand that disputes over islands and territorial waters will never be resolved completely, but at least the parties can create a working framework that regional stability is not disturbed. That is the goal that we aim to," the Acting Assistant Secretary of State confirmed.

The International Conference on the East Sea with the theme "Control tension in the East Sea" was held by the US-based Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS) in Washington DC in early June, with the participation of about 250 delegates including officials, scholars, leading researchers in the East Sea from the U.S., China, India, Japan, Philippines, Taiwan and Vietnam.

*Vo Minh*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ahojunk

@killmkys 

Thank you for the high quality pictures of Huayang Island.

Please post pictures of the other islands too.


----------



## 64:0

China Air Force JH-7A
Woody Island, Paracel Islands

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## ahojunk

These fighter jets - they are impressive and menacing!

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## LacViet

64:0 said:


> China Air Force JH-7A
> Woody Island, Paracel Islands



Change your ID flag to PRC, kid.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## 64:0

Landing

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## LacViet

*Vietnam opposes Taiwan's illegal construction on Ba Binh island*
(VOV) - Vietnam has sufficient legal and historical evidence to validate its undisputable sovereignty over the Hoang Sa and Truong Sa archipelagos.

Foreign Ministry spokesperson Le Hai Binh was speaking at a press conference on August 24 about Vietnam’s reaction to Taiwan’s (China) illegal construction on Ba Binh island in Vietnam’s Truong Sa archipelago.

The spokesperson said all foreign activities in the region without Vietnam’s agreement were illegal and invalid. 

He said Vietnam resolutely opposes Taiwan’s illegal construction on Ba Binh island and requested Taiwan to immediately stop its wrongful actions and not to repeat them.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## opruh

LacViet said:


> *Vietnam opposes Taiwan's illegal construction on Ba Binh island*
> (VOV) - Vietnam has sufficient legal and historical evidence to validate its undisputable sovereignty over the Hoang Sa and Truong Sa archipelagos.
> 
> Foreign Ministry spokesperson Le Hai Binh was speaking at a press conference on August 24 about Vietnam’s reaction to Taiwan’s (China) illegal construction on Ba Binh island in Vietnam’s Truong Sa archipelago.
> 
> The spokesperson said all foreign activities in the region without Vietnam’s agreement were illegal and invalid.
> 
> He said Vietnam resolutely opposes Taiwan’s illegal construction on Ba Binh island and requested Taiwan to immediately stop its wrongful actions and not to repeat them.


The only thing Vietnam is good at is protesting.

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Rechoice

64:0 said:


> next time
> View attachment 249574



PLS don't forget it. In Nanking China.
.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## dy1022

Rechoice said:


> PLS don't forget it. In Nanking China.
> .






DO not forget Hirishima and Nagasaki in 1945!

DO not forget 1979-1989 in Vietnam!

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## 64:0




----------



## EastSea

64:0 said:


>


Why he ís died in Vietnam ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

killmkys said:


> To kill monkeys.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fiery Cross Reef Aug 26
> View attachment 250668



Chinese aggressors were punished in land of Vietnam, like France colonials, US imperialists.


----------



## killmkys

EastSea said:


> Chinese aggressors were punished in land of Vietnam, like France colonials, US imperialists.


National born beaten. forever

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Thanh Hoa VT

Elegant contest Fundraising For Trường Sa


----------



## EastSea

killmkys said:


> National born beaten. forever



you were beaten by Mongolian, Manchurian, Japanese etc... big boy but is punished like kid. You are crying before Taiwan and Senkaku like idiot now.


----------



## killmkys

EastSea said:


> you were beaten by Mongolian, Manchurian, Japanese etc... big boy but is punished like kid. You are crying before Taiwan and Senkaku like idiot now.


Victim of great powers struggle. forever

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## 64:0

EastSea said:


> you were beaten by Mongolian, Manchurian, Japanese etc... big boy but is punished like kid. You are crying before Taiwan and Senkaku like idiot now.


Well, most of them became a part of China.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## terranMarine

EastSea said:


> Chinese aggressors were punished in land of Vietnam, like France colonials, US imperialists.



Why do you like to see Vietnam punished these powers when they have ruled your country, some have mass murdered your brethren turned them into slaves. Honestly Vietnam had suffered a lot of humiliation throughout history and here you are bragging how supa powa Vietnam had taught them a lesson.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

*CCG 33103*，anohter law enforcement vessel that came out of nowhere

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## TaiShang

*China Launches Large-Scale Military Drills in East China Sea *
*
27.08.2015*







*Amidst territorial disputes between Beijing and Tokyo, the Chinese military has conducted live-fire air and sea drills in the East China Sea on Thursday.*

Without stating the precise coordinates, state news agency Xinhua reports that the drills involved *over 100 ships and dozens of aircraft. Nearly 100 missiles were fired, and the exercises also utilized information warfare units.*

The Japanese and Chinese governments are currently disputing ownership of a series of small islands in the region.

*The exercises also come amidst a push by the administration of Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe to expand his country’s military role abroad. Nationwide protests have erupted in Japan against a series of legislative proposals aimed at reversing the nation’s longstanding pacifist constitution.*

These policy changes come partially in response to pressure from the United States, which has pushed Japan to play a stronger role in countering what it sees as Chinese aggression.

China is also currently conducting joint military exercises with Russia in the Sea of Japan, a move seen as a major sign of renewed cooperation between the two countries.

Xinhua reports that Beijing will also hold a trilateral military exercise on Thursday with Australia and the United States. These will focus on field survival training, such as how to build shelter and start fires in the jungle.

*Beijing will also hold drills in the South China Sea, where its construction of artificial islands in the Spratly archipelago has led to complaints from rival claimants.* A highly disputed region, nearly $5 trillion in trade passes through the South China Sea annually. While the Chinese government claims most of the sea, there are overlapping claims by the Philippines, Brunei, Malaysia, Vietnam, and Taiwan.

Beijing has repeatedly stated that it has every right to build within its own territory, and that the islands will be used largely for humanitarian purposes.

*The South China Sea drills will be conducted in cooperation with Malaysia in September. Codenamed "Peace and Friendship 2015," the exercises will include search and rescue operations with 1,160 Chinese participants.*

The Malaysian exercises will utilize two Chinese destroyer-frigates, four transportation aircraft, and three shipboard helicopters, according to Xinhua.

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## Jlaw

China's neighbors need to stop crying like little bitches lol. They started this island reclamation game first now they are crying.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## empirefighter

The human history still has very long future，let us play with our neighbours every day until the earth movement can move their country far away from us.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## TaiShang

*Chinese navy conducts live fire drill in East China Sea*
10:44, August 28, 2015





An air-defense missile is launched from missile frigate "Changzhou" during a fire drill in the East China Sea, Aug. 27, 2015. The Chinese navy conducted a live fire drill in the East China Sea on Thursday. The exercise involved more than 100 warships, dozens of aircraft and several missile launch battalions, navy sources said. Nearly 100 missiles and several hundred shells and bombs were fired during the exercise. The majority of navy forces in the drill were from the Donghai Fleet. The Beihai and Nanhai Fleets as well as the Air Force also took part. (Xinhua/Ding Sicheng)





A missile speedboat arrives in appointed position during a drill in the East China Sea, Aug. 27, 2015. The Chinese navy conducted a live fire drill in the East China Sea on Thursday. The exercise involved more than 100 warships, dozens of aircraft and several missile launch battalions, navy sources said. Nearly 100 missiles and several hundred shells and bombs were fired during the exercise. The majority of navy forces in the drill were from the Donghai Fleet. The Beihai and Nanhai Fleets as well as the Air Force also took part. (Xinhua/Ye Wenyong)





A video frame grab taken on Aug. 27, 2015 shows a new type of jet fighter flying over clouds during a drill in the East China Sea. The Chinese navy conducted a live fire drill in the East China Sea on Thursday. The exercise involved more than 100 warships, dozens of aircraft and several missile launch battalions, navy sources said. Nearly 100 missiles and several hundred shells and bombs were fired during the exercise. The majority of navy forces in the drill were from the Donghai Fleet. The Beihai and Nanhai Fleets as well as the Air Force also took part. (Xinhua)







An antiship missile is launched from guided missile destroyer "Fuzhou" during a fire drill in the East China Sea, Aug. 27, 2015. The Chinese navy conducted a live fire drill in the East China Sea on Thursday. The exercise involved more than 100 warships, dozens of aircraft and several missile launch battalions, navy sources said. Nearly 100 missiles and several hundred shells and bombs were fired during the exercise. The majority of navy forces in the drill were from the Donghai Fleet. The Beihai and Nanhai Fleets as well as the Air Force also took part. (Xinhua/Ju Zhenhua)

@cirr

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## EastSea

killmkys said:


> Victim of great powers struggle. forever
> 
> View attachment 250950
> 
> 
> View attachment 250952



This is applied to China too. China is crying before Taiwan now.



terranMarine said:


> Why do you like to see Vietnam punished these powers when they have ruled your country, some have mass murdered your brethren turned them into slaves. Honestly Vietnam had suffered a lot of humiliation throughout history and here you are bragging how supa powa Vietnam had taught them a lesson.


----------



## cirr

This is a routine exercise that has been and will be carried out for years。

So deal with it。

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## fadine

Lincoln Island, Vietnam.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Viet

Why all the war games of all the sudden right now? do you want to convine the world of your peaceful rise with more and more weapons, with more frequent exercises, from east to south, from north to south?

or you just run amok?


----------



## Green Angel



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## killmkys

Chinese territorial sea base points on Dong Dao(Lincoln Island)

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## fadine

_Cornwallis South Reef, Spratly Islands, Vietnam._

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## diaoyudao protecter

oh so many thieves are showing their gains ...how cute they are when the owner is too patient

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Economic superpower

Viet said:


> Why all the war games of all the sudden right now? do you want to convine the world of your peaceful rise with more and more weapons, with more frequent exercises, from east to south, from north to south?
> 
> or you just run amok?



China will:

1) continue to spend increased money on the military.

2) continue to build advanced weaponry.

3) continue to export weaponry.

4) continue to do more military exercises.

5) begin to build overseas military bases.

Enjoy!

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## xunzi

Viet said:


> Why all the war games of all the sudden right now? do you want to convine the world of your peaceful rise with more and more weapons, with more frequent exercises, from east to south, from north to south?
> 
> or you just run amok?


Get used to us drilling more for years to come.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## TaiShang

Viet said:


> Why all the war games of all the sudden right now? do you want to convine the world of your peaceful rise with more and more weapons, with more frequent exercises, from east to south, from north to south?
> 
> or you just run amok?



We just want to emphasize that we are capable of ensuring freedom, justice, and liberty for the world. A true responsible rising power. 

Peaceful development never meant a lack of strong army. In fact, it always meant China had very thick stick andextremely sweet carrot simultaneously.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Viet

TaiShang said:


> We just want to emphasize that we are capable of ensuring freedom, justice, and liberty for the world. A true responsible rising power.
> 
> Peaceful development never meant a lack of strong army. In fact, it always meant China had very thick stick andextremely sweet carrot simultaneously.


with claims of other people´s properties and advancing a policy of intimidation by staging military exercises? your neighbors see you more as hooligan than a peaceful rising great power.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EastSea

killmkys said:


> Chinese territorial sea base points on Dong Dao(Lincoln Island)
> View attachment 251151
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 251154



This is chinese aggressors, they robbed Islands of Vietnam. Chinese are sea pirates.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

*CCG 2091* commissioned：







The 5950-ton *CCG 2501* looks rather puny vs the 12800-ton *CCG 2901*

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## 64:0

The runway of Yongshu Island nearly completed

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## killmkys

Runway of Subi Reef

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## cirr

Meiji Island

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## 64:0

cirr said:


> Meiji Island
> 
> View attachment 253805



Next runway?


----------



## fadine

_West Reef_, _Spratly Islands,_ Vietnam, September 2, 2015.






Aprin 2015, Spratly Islands, Vietnam.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## killmkys



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## biendong

killmkys said:


> View attachment 254695



Chinese invaders get lost. occupation with force is illegal. same what Japanese did in China.

Hoang Sa belong to Vietnam.
Vietnamese were first presented there from long time ago..

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## killmkys

biendong said:


> Chinese invaders get lost. occupation with force is illegal. same what Japanese did in China.
> 
> Hoang Sa belong to Vietnam.
> Vietnamese were first presented there from long time ago..



I'm too lazy to tell you crap, China will strengthen law enforcement efforts in the Paracel Islands in the next few years, until the vietnamese did not dare to enter the Paracel waters , then it will turn to the Spratly , believe it or not.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## biendong

killmkys said:


> I'm too lazy to tell you crap, China will strengthen law enforcement efforts in the Paracel Islands in the next few years, until the vietnamese did not dare to enter the Paracel waters , then it will turn to the Spratly , believe it or not.



Chinese invader has a big mouth, get lost from Islands of Vietnam, dirty aggressor !


----------



## killmkys

biendong said:


> Chinese invader has a big mouth, get lost from Islands of Vietnam, dirty aggressor !


The vietnamese still living on the tree when Chinese people manage the South China Sea.
I said believe it or not. I‘ll @you when vietnamese fishermen treated by China Coast Guard in the next few years.Maybe three to five years, so you do not die too soon.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## biendong

killmkys said:


> The vietnamese still living on the tree when Chinese people manage the South China Sea.
> I said believe it or not. I‘ll @you when vietnamese fishermen treated by China Coast Guard in the next few years.Maybe three to five years, so you do not die too soon.



Are you Chinese pynoy ? don't troll like this. there is Jiao Zhi sea of Vietnamese from ancient time until when you are ruled by Mongolian and Manchurian. Study more your ancestor's history book printed in China, kid.


----------



## Elkanah

Can we get a updated pic set of all China spratly islands


----------



## killmkys

biendong said:


> Are you Chinese pynoy ? don't troll like this. there is Jiao Zhi sea of Vietnamese from ancient time until when you are ruled by Mongolian and Manchurian. Study more your ancestor's history book printed in China, kid.


I will continue to record how the vietnamese were driven out of the South China Sea.
First @you, 1 @biendong

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## biendong

killmkys said:


> I will continue to record how the vietnamese were driven out of the South China Sea.
> First @you, 1 @biendong
> View attachment 254946
> 
> 
> View attachment 254947



Chinese is modern sea pirate in 21th century.


----------



## killmkys

2 @biendong
vietnamese fishing boat which detained by China Coast Guard.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## 64:0

Mischief Reef. Sep 8
A harbor many boats can be docked.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Martian2



Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## killmkys

*3 @biendong *
*Satellite Imagery Makes Clear China’s Runway Work on Subi Reef, South China Sea*

*



*

*



*

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Viet

Martian2 said:


>


wrong. vietnam has over 2,000 miles coast line, excluding islands. as appetite for you and other chinese, aka invasion of vietnam, I will post here vietnamese sceneries along the coast.

nha-trang
















da-nang


----------



## Viet

an-giang





saigon










and special for your navy: cam-ranh, vietnamese naval port


----------



## six



Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Viet

vietnam, south china sea

con dao island












phu-quy










phu-quoc island

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cnleio

cirr said:


> *CCG 2091* commissioned：
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The 5950-ton *CCG 2501* looks rather puny vs the 12800-ton *CCG 2901*


12,000-ton China Coast Guard patrol ship  ... it's a unfair game to Vietnam in the SCS water, they just start to build new designed 2,500-ton ship for Vietnam Coast Guard ...  incomparable is everywhere.



64:0 said:


> Next runway?


Comfired, the 2nd runway building in Subi island (reef), Meiji island not yet.

Subi island & Subi's runway building

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Speeder 2

cnleio said:


> 12,000-ton China Coast Guard patrol ship  ... it's a unfair game to Vietnam in the SCS water, they just start to build new designed 2,500-ton ship for Vietnam Coast Guard ...  incomparable is everywhere.
> 
> 
> Comfired, the 2nd runway building in Subi island (reef), Meiji island not yet.
> 
> Subi island & Subi's runway building
> View attachment 256573
> View attachment 256574
> View attachment 256575
> View attachment 256576



How long is this runway? 3,000m as well?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cnleio

Speeder 2 said:


> How long is this runway? 3,000m as well?


Don't know yet ... until end of this year.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Viet

killmkys said:


> *The vietnamese still living on the tree* when Chinese people manage the South China Sea.
> I said believe it or not. I‘ll @you when vietnamese fishermen treated by China Coast Guard in the next few years.Maybe three to five years, so you do not die too soon.


do you remember on which trees we were on?
if I remember, the last time a chinese visiting vietnam, travelling through the south sea, as you call it, was a Ming eunuch. that is LONG ago.

ok, I continue the series.

vung-tau










do you see our oil rigs? I do.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

Speeder 2 said:


> Either coconut trees or banana trees.
> 
> 
> 
> You have to know that if history tells you sth, it is this:
> 
> Whenever China was strong, Vietnam and Korea were good enough to go by.
> 
> Whenever China was weak, Vietnamese were either on the trees or running around them drinking agent orange.


a retard like you always love saying such a thing. You know what, we still have AO stuff at home, we can put a gun on your head, forcing you to drink it. Let me know if other chinese clowns want as well.


----------



## killmkys

*South China Sea: Satellite Imagery Shows China’s Buildup on Fiery Cross Reef

Recent satellite imagery of Fiery Cross in the Spratly Islands reveals that China’s construction of facilities on the reef is more ambitious than previously appreciated, with one of its building complexes on track to rival the Pentagon in size. The complex, located in the midsection of the manufactured island a thousand kilometers off China’s coast, has a current footprint of approximately 61,000 square meters, not including large adjacent tracts where additional foundations are being laid. As a benchmark, the Pentagon has a footprint of 116,000 square meters, not including its interior courtyard.












Increasingly sophisticated installations have appeared on Fiery Cross since an image was taken on July 13, including a circular antenna array and a likely radar tower rising from what was a bare sector of sand two months ago. Construction of the new military base at Fiery Cross appears to have suffered some setbacks and changes to plans, however.






The primary runway in the July 13 image shows seven locations where the concrete has been removed and replaced (three of the alterations appear to have been made to accommodate conduits beneath the main runway, possibly for drainage, irrigation, or sewage outfalls). All of the runway retrofitting was completed and no longer visible by early September, and the runway was quickly extended by 60 meters on each end, with a current length of approximately 3,125 meters.






A new dark strip appearing in September images, paralleling the southern third of the primary runway, has been interpreted by some analysts as the paving of an additional airstrip, but it is more likely an agricultural buffer zone, according to Professor J. David Rogers, of the Geological Engineering program at the Missouri University of Science & Technology, who has familiarity with military installations in the Pacific region.






Rogers, who is a former U.S. Navy intelligence officer, points out in an email interview the “tillage/planting rows, perpendicular to the main runway axis” visible at higher resolution. He adds that a cultivation zone could “semi-stabilize the seaward side of the main runway, helping to reduce storm-induced erosion,” as well as potentially provide fresh produce.






The July 13 image of Fiery Cross reveals what appear to be piles of imported topsoil additives dumped by trucks alongside the runway, to be spread and graded. Ribbed patterns now seen on parts of the dark strip are probably agricultural fabric row covers.






Fiery Cross Reef, Subi Reef and Mischief Reef are China’s largest military installations in the Spratlys, but they are still under construction and do not exhibit the more sophisticated defensive capabilities now present at China’s smaller bases on four other reefs in the Spratlys: Cuarteron, Gaven, Hughes, and Johnson South. These facilities are being equipped with state-of-the-art sensor towers, weapons tracking and firing platforms and tracking/firing guidance radars, as well as an array of electronic sensors and satellite communications infrastructure. For example, a satellite image taken August 23 shows that Cuarteron has a new antenna farm that Rogers considers reminiscent of Australia’s Jindalee over-the-horizon radar network, which has a range of up to 3,000 kilometers.

*

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## killmkys

Cuarteron’s sensor array, still under construction, appears to be a matrix of pole antennas up to 19 meters high, as estimated by shadow analysis. Over-the-horizon radar has been cited as one system the PLA could use to cue the launch and trajectory of China’s so-called “carrier killer” missile, the DF-21D, which featured prominently in Beijing’s military parade in early September and is a potential threat to U.S. Navy warships. An over-the-horizon radar system positioned at Cuarteron, more than a thousand kilometers from China’s nearest coastline, could significantly extend the theater for the PLA’s anti-ship ballistic missiles as well as provide redundancy if satellite or airborne guidance is compromised.






The new bases at Cuarteron, Gaven, Hughes and Johnson South additionally all have what appears to be a substantial billeting/command-control-communications building on the order of eight to ten stories tall, with elevated polygonal platforms that may eventually serve as weapons pads; the four platforms on the central building at Hughes show raised features consistent with a radar-controlled CIWS (close-in weapons system), but this cannot be confirmed at the resolution of the current images.






The size, shape and likely purpose of these buildings is evocative of a structure not seen anew since World War II: flak towers, some of which still grimly stand, due to the difficulty of destroying them, in Vienna, Berlin and Hamburg. The Pentagon, dating from the same wartime years, was frenetically built on wetlands using millions of cubic yards of trucked-in earth and 700,000 tons of sand dredged from the Potomac River – not unlike the massive and much larger undertaking now visible at Fiery Cross Reef.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Martian2



Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Rechoice

USA is turned back.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

New 3950-ton ship joining CCG's SCS flotilla：

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Elkanah

It seems when complete China's spratly island bases will fit in to a well conceptualized ability to if necessary stem American naval interdiction in the South China Sea. I am particularly curious if the speculation of an airstrip on mischief reef materializes as to me it would actually make it a lot harder for the U.S. To destroy the bases in any war scenario with China with out a substantial cost to US navy


----------



## zhkf

*U.S. commander backs challenging China over disputed islands*
The commander of U.S. forces in the Pacific said ahead of a visit by Chinese President Xi Jinping to Washington that America should challenge China's claim to territory in the South China Sea by patrolling close to artificial islands built by Beijing.

Admiral Harry Harris told a Senate hearing on Thursday that China's building of three airfields on the islands and their further militarization was of "great concern militarily" and posed a threat to all countries in the region.

Pressed by members the Senate Armed Services Committee on whether U.S. forces should challenge China by sailing within 12 nautical miles of the islands, Harris replied:

"I believe that we should exercise - be allowed to exercise, freedom of navigation and flight - maritime and flight - in the South China Sea against those islands that are not islands."

Asked if this meant going within 12 miles, he answered, referring to the artificial islands: "Depending on the feature." He added: "Conducting that kind of ... freedom-of-navigation operation is one of the operations we're considering."

Committee chairman Senator John McCain criticized the Obama administration for failing to challenge China by sailing within 12 miles of the artificial islands, saying this "dangerous mistake" amounted to de facto recognition of Chinese claims.

Assistant Secretary of Defense David Shear told the committee that such patrols had not been conducted since 2012, but were among an "array" of future U.S. options.



CHINESE VISIT

Chinese President Xi starts a week-long visit to the United States on Monday. U.S. concerns about China's pursuit of territorial claims in the South China Sea will be high on President Barack Obama's agenda in their talks on Friday.

McCain said the restrictions on U.S. patrols had continued even after China sent naval vessels within 12 miles of the Aleutian Islands off Alaska last week.

Shear said the Chinese had not yet placed advanced weaponry on the artificial islands and added: "We are going to do everything we can to ensure that they don't." He added: "This is going to be a long-term effort."

Harris said China was building 10,000-foot (3,000- meter) runways on the islands.

"And they're also building deep-water port facilities there, which could put their deep-water ships, their combatant ships, there, which gives them an extra capability," he said.

There would be a network of missile sites, runways, fighter planes and surveillance sites. "It creates a mechanism by which China would have de facto control over the South China Sea in any scenario short of war," he said.

Harris said the United States was also seeing increasingly long range submarine deployment by China, including to the Horn of Africa region and North Arabian Sea in conjunction with counter-piracy operations, and of ballistic missile submarines in the Pacific.



(Reporting by David Brunnstrom and David Alexander; Editing by Eric Walsh and David Gregorio)


----------



## biendong

USA warship in SCS.


----------



## cirr

CCG 31240 has some raw power 
















Hope our Vietnamese friends are at the ready

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## bobsm

*US Hasn’t Challenged Chinese ‘Islands’ Since 2012*
By SYDNEY J. FREEDBERG JR.
on September 17, 2015 at 2:20 PM

UPDATED: Adds House Letter To White House CAPITOL HILL: Defense officials acknowledged today that the US has not directly challenged the sovereignty of China’s artificial islands in the South China Sea for at least three years. US aircraft have not flown over the artificial islets. Nor have US ships sailed within 12 nautical miles of one since 2012 — when most of the current crop weren’t even built.

Those facts raise the question of whether Defense Secretary Ash Carter’s pledge earlier this month was a hollow one. “The United States will fly, sail, and operate wherever international law allows,” even in Chinese-claimed waters, Carter said Sept. 1st. These declarations are particularly pointed, and the discussion relevant, because Chinese President Xi Jinping is visiting Washington at the end of this month.

The 12-mile limit in particular is a big deal, because it’s the extent of the territorial waters the Chinese claim to control around their new constructed “islands.” The US argues an artificial “feature” built over a submerged coral reef grants no legal rights to the surrounding waters or airspace. (China in fact claims almost the entire South China Sea, based on an infamous “9-dash line” on a World War II-era map, which US and Asian nations naturally reject.)

This morning’s exchange between Sen. John McCain, who has bipartisan support for his view that China must not be allowed to build and operate these structures without being challenged, was dramatic.

“We sail and we fly and we operate within that area on a daily basis,” said David Shear, assistant secretary of defense for Asia-Pacific security, including “freedom of navigation” operations to assert our rights to free passage as recently as April.

“But you haven’t operated within 12 miles of these reclaimed features, have you?” asked McCain.

“We have conducted freedom of navigation operations….” Shear began.

“Have you gone within 12 miles of a reclaimed area?” McCain interrupted.

“We have not recently gone within 12 miles of a reclaimed area,” Shear acknowledged.

So when was the last time? McCain demanded.

After some pushing and prodding, Shear said that “I believe the last time we conducted a freedom of navigation operation within 12 nautical miles of one of those feature was 2012.”

“2012,” McCain said grimly. “Three years ago.”

Under questioning from McCain’s Democratic counterpart, SASC ranking member Jack Reed, Adm. Harris added that “we have not conducted a flyover” over Chinese-reclaimed land masses, either.

Even as purely physical structures, the artificial islets are affecting the balance of power. China is building deep-draft harbors suitable for warships and three 10,000-foot runways that can handle any aircraft short of the Space Shuttle, the chief of US Pacific Command, Adm. Harry Harris, told the Senate Armed Services Committee.

If the US refuses to challenge the islets’ legal status by sailing or flying within 12 miles, they effectively become bubbles of Chinese sovereign territory in disputed and strategic waters. “If you respect the 12-mile limit, then that’s de facto sovereignty, agreed to tacitly,” the Senate Armed Services Committee chairman, John McCain, argued at today’s hearing.

More @http://breakingdefense.com/2015/09/us-has-steered-clear-of-chinese-artificial-islands-in-south-china-sea/

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Martian2



Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Viet

Martin, as tourist you are welcome.

Ground breaking for the world’s longest cable car line: 1.5-kilometre cable, speed of 8.5 metres per second and is capable of carrying 3,500 passengers per hour. linking islands of Hon Thom and Phu Quoc.

Longest 3S Cable Car Breaks Ground in Vietnam (Phú Quốc to Hòn Thơm) « The Gondola Project











when completed, it will look like other cable cars having constructed in many places in Vietnam.





this is Ba-Na.


----------



## cirr

*Yongshudao*（Fiery Cross Island）20.09.2015

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## xudoai

* Vietnam opposes China’s zoning plan *
(VOV) -Vietnam has repeatedly asserted its indisputable sovereignty over the two islands- Paracel (Hoang Sa) and Spratly (Truong Sa). All activities of foreign parties in the area without the consent of Vietnam are an act of violation of international law, infringement of the nation’s sovereignty and invalid.

Foreign Ministry spokesperson Le Hai Binh made the remark on September 23 in response to reporters’ question about Vietnam’s reaction to the Chinese State Council’s adoption of the national marine functional zoning plan which includes both the Hoang Sa and Truong Sa of Vietnam.

“Vietnam resolutely opposes the illegal act by China, asking it to respect the country’s sovereignty and refrain from conducting the similar wrongful acts, thus making practical contributions to the development of the friendship and cooperation between the two nations and maintaining peace and stability in the East Sea,” Binh said.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cnleio

cirr said:


> *Yongshudao*（Fiery Cross Island）20.09.2015
> 
> View attachment 260247


Unsink aircraft carrier in SCS ... good job

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## yusheng

same guy， just in different colours

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## yusheng

three more:

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## DaiViet

cnleio said:


> Unsink aircraft carrier in SCS ... good job


Also an Unmoved aircraft carrier. Other words for this are static, locked target.


----------



## cirr

ram the SOB 

实拍：中方霸气猛撞越南船，将越南船只撞成“敞篷”！—在线播放—优酷网，视频高清在线观看

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Martian2



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Rechoice

Vietnam, US discuss Asia-Pacific situation at Defense Dialogue

UPDATED : 10/03/2015 14:04 GMT + 7

*The complicated situation in Asia-Pacific was among the key issues discussed at the 6th Vietnam-U.S. Defense Policy Dialogue that wrapped up Friday in Washington D.C.*

Sovereignty disputes as well as claims and actions that go against international law are worrying nations both inside and outside the Asia-Pacific region, U.S. Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for South and Southeast Asia Amy Searight said, referring to the situation in the region.

The U.S’s stance is that all disputes would be resolved through peacefully and that any actions that run against international law would be stopped, Searight told Deputy Defense Minister Nguyen Chi Vinh, who led the Vietnamese delegation at the dialogue, which kicked off on September 29.

Regarding the U.S.-Vietnam ties, Searight expressed her pleasure at the sound development of the two countries’ relations in general and their defense ties in particular.

The U.S. official affirmed that the bilateral defense cooperation has been effectively promoted within the framework of the 2011 memorandum of understanding (MoU) on boosting bilateral defense cooperation.

She highly appreciated both sides’ efforts to step up cooperation under the said MoU, the 2015 Joint Vision Statement on Defense Relations, and other bilateral agreements.

The two sides have achieved remarkable results in handling the aftermath of war, including bomb and mine clearance, dioxin detoxification, search for the remains of soldiers, humanitarian assistance, and search and rescue operations, the U.S. official said. 

She added that the two countries have also coordinated closely at multilateral forums.

Deputy Ministry Vinh told his host that the Asia-Pacific region is facing a risk of instability and conflict, which requires nations involved to exercise restraint, participate in peace talks, share viewpoints and unity at multilateral forums, and work towards the building of a Code of Conduct in the East Vietnam Sea on the basis of international law and the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea.

He also stressed the need of avoiding any actions that can complicate the situation.

The Vietnamese official highly valued the U.S.’s efforts in dealing with the consequences of war, particularly projects to address the dioxin contamination at the Da Nang airport in the central city of Da Nang and assess the environment at the Bien Hoa airport in the southern province of Dong Nai.

He also highlighted the results of the cooperation between Vietnam and the U.S in relation to United Nations peacekeeping operations, humanitarian assistance, disaster relief, and maritime security.

The Vietnamese official also handed over to the U.S. side several war remembrances of U.S. soldiers who fought in Vietnam.

_*Like us on Facebook or follow us on Twitter to get the latest news about Vietnam!*_


----------



## cnleio

DaiViet said:


> Also an Unmoved aircraft carrier. Other words for this are static, locked target.


Never mind, coz there will be full of HQ-9, HQ-16 SAMs and DF ballistic/cruise missiles.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cirr

Hello，SCS：

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## cirr

The Beacon of Freedom 






China's gift to the SCS。

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## TaiShang

Guests attend a completion ceremony for the construction of Huayang and Chigua Lighthouses on Huayang Reef of China's Nansha Islands, Oct. 9, 2015, marking the start of the operation of the two lighthouses. (Xinhua/Chen Yichen)

***

So, both of the lighthouses have been constructed and started regular operations.

Another step in China's inclusive growth and security scheme.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## black-hawk_101

Viet said:


> Martin, as tourist you are welcome.
> 
> Ground breaking for the world’s longest cable car line: 1.5-kilometre cable, speed of 8.5 metres per second and is capable of carrying 3,500 passengers per hour. linking islands of Hon Thom and Phu Quoc.
> 
> Longest 3S Cable Car Breaks Ground in Vietnam (Phú Quốc to Hòn Thơm) « The Gondola Project
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> when completed, it will look like other cable cars having constructed in many places in Vietnam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this is Ba-Na.



They should place some credible NATO class Low-Medium Air Defence systems along with Surface defence and submerge defence system like Placing Torpedo tubes along its Island coast.


----------



## cnleio

cirr said:


> The Beacon of Freedom
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China's gift to the SCS。


Wow ... Freedom from China in SCS, amazing ~!

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## ahojunk

cirr said:


> The Beacon of Freedom
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China's gift to the SCS。





TaiShang said:


> Guests attend a completion ceremony for the construction of Huayang and Chigua Lighthouses on Huayang Reef of China's Nansha Islands, Oct. 9, 2015, marking the start of the operation of the two lighthouses. (Xinhua/Chen Yichen)
> 
> ***
> 
> So, both of the lighthouses have been constructed and started regular operations.
> 
> Another step in China's inclusive growth and security scheme.



This is amazingly quick and another testament to China's skill and speed in building infrastructure.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Zero_wing

ahojunk said:


> This is amazingly quick and another testament to China skill and speed in building infrastructure.



Imperialism at work

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Martian2

*China's LD-2000 Counter Rocket, Artillery & Mortar (C-RAM) in Action*

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Martian2



Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## cirr



Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## cirr

12800-ton CCG 3901 begins sea trials






Deployment in the SCS in the 1st half of 2016？

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Elkanah

No new pictures of mischief reef curious to see if grading for runway is visible now


----------



## cnleio

Elkanah said:


> No new pictures of mischief reef curious to see if grading for runway is visible now


Ur wish already come true, Mischief Reef runway !  Now 3x Chinese artificial islands have 2,500~3,000m length runways ...

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Elkanah

Good lord they built that just in one month

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ahojunk

When it comes to building massive infrastructure projects, China is second to none.

China builds massive infrastructure projects faster, better and cheaper than other countries.

An example is their high speed railway. China is the latest entrant to HSR and yet in less than 10 years, it now has the fastest, longest, smoothest and largest network.

When you come to think of it, the building activities in the South China Sea only started in early 2014. Now, China has 4 airfields (including the one on Woody Island). Amazing!

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Rechoice

Vietnam protests China’s illegal lighthouse construction: Spokesperson
_China’s construction of two lighthouses in the Chau Vien (Cuarteron) and Gac Ma (Johnson) reefs in Vietnam ’s Truong Sa (Spratly) Archipelago is in serious violation of Vietnam ’s sovereignty, stated Foreign Ministry’s Spokesperson Le Hai Binh on October 13. 





Foreign Ministry’s Spokesperson Le Hai Binh.
_
The move was contrary to the common perspectives of both countries’ leaders, complicating the situation and escalating tension, said Binh in response to reporters’ questions regarding the action. 

“ Vietnam resolutely rejects and strongly protests that action by China ,” the spokesperson declared. 

“Once again, we affirm that Vietnam has full legal and historical evidence for its indisputable sovereignty over the Truong Sa and Hoang Sa archipelagos. That other countries conduct activities there without permission and agreement from Vietnam is illegal and completely worthless,” he stated.

VNA

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## rcrmj

Rechoice said:


> Vietnam protests China’s illegal lighthouse construction: Spokesperson


the theft protests police's legal action of building surveillance```

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## ahojunk

cnleio said:


> Ur wish already come true, Mischief Reef runway !  Now 3x Chinese artificial islands have 2,500~3,000m length runways ...
> View attachment 264422



@cnleio

The runway at Mischief Island does not look real.
Someone said that this is a Photoshop job.
Is that correct?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

rcrmj said:


> the theft protests police's legal action of building surveillance```



don't lie.

Chinese aggressors attcked on Vietnamese in South Johson reef in 1988.


----------



## rcrmj

Rechoice said:


> don't lie.
> 
> Chinese aggressors attcked on Vietnamese in South Johson reef in 1988.


we just simply sent those disgraceful invaders and cunt$ to fishes belly

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## opruh

Gosh vietnamese are such crybabies.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## cnleio

ahojunk said:


> @cnleio
> 
> The runway at Mischief Island does not look real.
> Someone said that this is a Photoshop job.
> Is that correct?


 North-west corner of Mischief Island, 2015-10-13 satellite photo

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Rechoice

rcrmj said:


> we just simply sent those disgraceful invaders and cunt$ to fishes belly



dirty aggressor has big mouth, you will punished like animals.


----------



## rcrmj

Rechoice said:


> dirty aggressor has big mouth, you will punished like animals.


history tells us that it always the disgraceful viets who got punished like animals from time to time``

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## cnleio

China Coast Guard has more ships(>1,000ton) than PLAN 60+ surface ships... how this happened ?

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Rechoice

rcrmj said:


> history tells us that it always the disgraceful viets who got punished like animals from time to time``



Mongolian, Manchurian and Japanese has been punished you many time for us. LOL.


----------



## cnleio

Rechoice said:


> Mongolian, Manchurian and Japanese has been punished you many time for us. LOL.


Tell a truth here  ... except Japan island, rest now become parts of China, Chinese citizens and they also speak Chinese. The past 500 years of China history, China lands become bigger adding North-East China,Tibet, XinJiang, Mongolia areas.

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Zero_wing

revisionist history mongolia and tibet had their own culture language and identity

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cnleio

Zero_wing said:


> revisionist history mongolia and tibet had their own culture language and identity


The white also not indigenous ppl of America, trust me nobody care that coz this is a fish eat fish world.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Viet

opruh said:


> Gosh vietnamese are such crybabies.


don´t forget to tell your chinese friends, relatives and whoever at home and elsewhere to build more Nanjing Rape monuments. you need more nanjing rape temples, to distract chinese people and foreigners from your own crimes. China is probably the only country in the world to have such monuments, places necessary to build its national identity. people can see how you to behave and who are you in reality: crybabies and delusional liars? the latter fits you better I believe.



rcrmj said:


> we just simply sent those disgraceful invaders and cunt$ to fishes belly


you received 2 thanks. great. more chinese should come here and give you more thanks.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## dy1022

Viet said:


> don´t forget to tell your chinese friends, relatives and whoever at home and elsewhere to build more Nanjing Rape monuments. you need more nanjing rape temples, to distract chinese people and foreigners from your own crimes. China is probably the only country in the world to have such monuments, places necessary to build its national identity. people can see how you to behave and who are you in reality: crybabies and delusional liars? the latter fits you better I believe.
> 
> 
> you received 2 thanks. great. more chinese should come here and give you more thanks.







you know we made a Vietnam rape between 1979-1989, but no one cares in this world!

Hirosima, Nagasaki, and Fukusima?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

dy1022 said:


> you know we made a Vietnam rape between 1979-1989, but no one cares in this world!
> 
> Hirosima, Nagasaki, and Fukusima?


so you admit being a rapist.
I´m curious what is the difference between your rape and japanese rape?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## rcrmj

Rechoice said:


> Mongolian, Manchurian and Japanese has been punished you many time for us. LOL.


and they either vanished or constrained to a barren land, have to survive under our mercy```and Japan is well watched by the U.S, but will eventually handed to us just like before``

and you viets? lol, no indigenous culture all copied from China, expect your vomiting language, it sounds insanely awful

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## dy1022

Viet said:


> so you admit being a rapist.
> I´m curious what is the difference between your rape and japanese rape?





China = winner in WW2!

Japan = Loser in WW2!

see Hirosima, Nagasaki, and Fukusima?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

dy1022 said:


> China = winner in WW2!
> 
> Japan = Loser in WW2!
> 
> see Hirosima, Nagasaki, and Fukusima?


I asked you the difference between chinese and japanese rapists?


----------



## Rechoice

rcrmj said:


> and they either vanished or constrained to a barren land, have to survive under our mercy```and Japan is well watched by the U.S, but will eventually handed to us just like before``
> 
> and you viets? lol, no indigenous culture all copied from China, expect your vomiting language, it sounds insanely awful



They punished you, it is enough for us. They will regain independence from China in future.

China is typical copycat, no more.


----------



## killmkys

Rechoice said:


> They punished you, it is enough for us. They will regain independence from China in future.
> 
> China is typical copycat, no more.


vietnam imitate China everywhere, but it said China copycat.













Look at what happened in less than two years.This is just the beginning,it is a long process. This process for us is eagerly hope and anxiously waiting, for the enemy is long suffering.

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## killmkys



Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## killmkys

One year













Less than a year

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## Rechoice

what you post there is is westerner costoum and hair fashion modificated type from Korean.






http://menshorthairstyle.com/wp-con...styles_for_men_2010-asian-short-hairstyle.jpg

Chinese haircut is here.






and Vietnam emblem is one from Socialist countries emblem, like East German.







like Soviet Union.

http://data:image/png;base64,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


----------



## killmkys

Q: It is reported that Vietnam said China sank a vietnam fishing boat on September 29 in the Paracel Islands waters, Can you confirm?

A: I do not have what you said, will be verified with the relevant departments. I want to emphasize is that China shall have the right to illegally enter China Xisha waters fishing and other illegal activities in the invasion of foreign fishing vessels to take enforcement measures.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## opruh

Viet said:


> don´t forget to tell your chinese friends, relatives and whoever at home and elsewhere to build more Nanjing Rape monuments. you need more nanjing rape temples, to distract chinese people and foreigners from your own crimes. China is probably the only country in the world to have such monuments, places necessary to build its national identity. people can see how you to behave and who are you in reality: crybabies and delusional liars? the latter fits you better I believe.
> 
> 
> you received 2 thanks. great. more chinese should come here and give you more thanks.


No agent orange monument?

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Zero_wing

Wow alot of chinese false flager here


----------



## ahojunk

China denies island building 'militarizes' South China Sea
2015-10-15 09:22 | Xinhua | Editor: Wang Fan

China on Wednesday denied its island building in the South China Sea would "militarize" the area, after U.S. and Australian defense and foreign ministers expressed concern during their annual meeting.

"China's construction on the Nansha Islands serves mostly civilian purposes, helping deliver our international responsibilities and obligations and providing more public good," Foreign Ministry spokesperson Hua Chunying told a regular news briefing.

The lighthouses on Huayang and Chigua reefs went into operation on Oct. 10 and have significantly improved navigation safety in the South China Sea.

"Some countries flex their military muscles and hold frequent large-scale drills with their allies in the South China Sea, which is the most important factor militarizing the waters. China expresses serious concern over this," she said.

China's military deployment is "necessary, limited and defense-oriented," Hua said.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Rechoice

opruh said:


> No agent orange monument?



In China you have it.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cnleio

big & middle & small, three biggest artificial islands in SCS.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## dichoi

killmkys said:


> vietnam imitate China everywhere, but it said China copycat.
> View attachment 264718
> View attachment 264720
> 
> 
> View attachment 264719
> 
> 
> Look at what happened in less than two years.This is just the beginning,it is a long process. This process for us is eagerly hope and anxiously waiting, for the enemy is long suffering.
> View attachment 264723
> View attachment 264724
> View attachment 264725
> 
> 
> View attachment 264727
> View attachment 264726



 This is Manchurian costums too. not belong to Han Chinese.


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

*Indonesia reiterates urgency to conduct South China Sea patrols*
Jumat, 16 Oktober 2015 19:00 WIB | 8




China's military when holding exercises in the South China Sea some time ago.(DTN News)
Beijing (ANTARA News) - Indonesia has highlighted the urgent need to conduct joint military patrols by the ASEAN countries and China to overcome the tensions in the South China Sea.

"We will explain to the United States about the purpose of conducting joint sea patrols in South China Sea by the ASEAN countries and China," Indonesian Defense Minister Ryamizard Ryacudu stated here on Friday.

Ryamizard noted that the United States should not be alarmed about the Indonesian proposal to conduct joint sea patrols in the South China Sea.

The minister pointed out that the operation can be a positive effort to overcome the tensions in the South China Sea that involve several ASEAN countries and China.

According to Ryamizard, Indonesia is committed to maintaining peace and stability in South China Sea.

"Thus, we proposed to conduct joint patrols by the related parties in the South China Sea region, such as the ASEAN countries and China to maintain peace and stability in the region," the minister said.

He added that the countries need to intensely communicate to tackle the challenges posed by the South China Sea issue.

*"Indonesia is committed to supporting all parties that prioritize peace and stability in the South China Sea. If the sea lanes are secure, then the trade route will also be safe, which could improve economic development and regional prosperity," Ryamizard pointed out.*

The minister is scheduled to visit Beijing in China on October 13-18, 2015.

Additionally, Chinese Defense Minister Chang Wanquan noted that the regional security situation, particularly in the South China Sea, has reached a crucial stage and must be solved. 

"The arrival of the United States in the Asia-Pacific region, particularly its maneuvers in the South China Sea, have raised tensions," Chang affirmed.

He affirmed that the political situation in each country of the region also affects the security situation in the waters. 

"I agree that other threats, such as terrorism, drug trafficking, and natural disasters have also become security threats in the region that need further settlement," Chang pointed out.

The Chinese defense minister pointed out that Indonesia is an influential state and has an important role in the ASEAN. Thus, China supports Indonesia to hold a dialogue between China and the ASEAN countries as well as to conduct joint patrols to promote peace in the South China Sea.

Previously, tensions between the ASEAN countries and China had escalated due to the Chinese government establishing military posts in the South China Sea.

The United States government and Southeast Asian countries have warned Beijing to stop their military activities in the region. Malaysia, the Philippines, Vietnam, and Brunei Darussalam have territorial disputes with China.

The United States government is disappointed with China as its military had driven away some jet fighters of the United States that were flying over the South China Sea, which is considered as an international airspace.(*) 

Indonesia reiterates urgency to conduct South China Sea patrols - ANTARA News


----------



## TaiShang

ahojunk said:


> When it comes to building massive infrastructure projects, China is second to none.
> 
> China builds massive infrastructure projects faster, better and cheaper than other countries.
> 
> An example is their high speed railway. China is the latest entrant to HSR and yet in less than 10 years, it now has the fastest, longest, smoothest and largest network.
> 
> When you come to think of it, the building activities in the South China Sea only started in early 2014. Now, China has 4 airfields (including the one on Woody Island). Amazing!



Pre-2014, China did not have any land surface (except reefs and rocks) in Spratlys.

In 2015, China has the largest land area in the Spratlys.

Vietnamese and Filipinos made a strategic miscalculation. They should not have encouraged China to initiate its peace and development-oriented island genesis program in the SCS.

Since, whatever China builds, it builds in China scale.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Zero_wing

TaiShang said:


> Pre-2014, China did not have any land surface (except reefs and rocks) in Spratlys.
> 
> In 2015, China has the largest land area in the Spratlys.
> 
> Vietnamese and Filipinos made a strategic miscalculation. They should not have encouraged China to initiate its peace and development-oriented island genesis program in the SCS.
> 
> Since, whatever China builds, it builds in China scale.



Oh please your just piss people off for one thing china though that since it can show its so called power people will just blindly obey but it had the opposite effect the surrounding countries are modernizing their forces and many nations are no voicing their opinions on the matter and the thing china fears is coming true the US is not Jumping in so as Japanese so you people did the strategic miscalculation and you seeing things blindly by your arrogance is showing that.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## rcrmj

dichoi said:


> This is Manchurian costums too. not belong to Han Chinese.


and who are those monkeys in these pics? seriously vomiting just like your language

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## dichoi

rcrmj said:


> and who are those monkeys in these pics? seriously vomiting just like your language



your ancestors had wearing such manchurian type clothes in Qing dynasty, who are they ? 

some word is borrowed from Tibetan friend. You learnt from Tibetan how to speak out


----------



## ahojunk

Taiwan's southernmost lighthouse completed in South China Sea
2015/10/24 19:02:58





Photo courtesy of Maritime and Port Bureau

Taipei, Oct. 24 (CNA) Taiwan has finished construction of its southernmost lighthouse located on Taiping Island in the South China Sea, the Maritime and Port Bureau said Saturday, adding that the lighthouse could both improve navigational safety and assert the nation's sovereignty.

The 12.7 meter-tall lighthouse will help guard Taiwan's various national interests, said the bureau's deputy head Lee Yun-wan (李雲萬).

The Taiping lighthouse has a range of 10 nautical miles, while it will also be automated and regularly maintained, Lee said.

It is unlikely that the lighthouse will be affected by the two lighthouses on Huayang Reef and Chigua Reef in the South China Sea, which the Chinese government inaugurated earlier this year, Lee said in response to media inquiries.

The Chinese lighthouses are far away from the Taiping lighthouse, he explained.

With an area of 0.49 square kilometers, Taiping Island is the largest of the Spratly Islands in the South China Sea, which have been at the center of heated territorial disputes involving Taiwan, China, Vietnam, the Philippines, Malaysia and Brunei in recent years.

Taiwan has improved airport facilities on the island and is also building a wharf, which is scheduled to be completed by the end of this year, ensuring that the island can be used for humanitarian tasks, the Ministry of National Defense said.

(By Chen Wei-ting and Lee Hsin-Yin)

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## F-22Raptor

The U.S. Navy plans to send the USS Lassen destroyer within 12 nautical miles of artificial islands built by China in the South China Sea within 24 hours, a U.S. defense official said on Monday, the first of more regular challenges to China's territorial claims.

The destroyer's patrol would go near Subi and Mischief reefs in the Spratly archipelago, features that were formerly submerged at high tide before China began a massive dredging project to turn them into islands in 2014.

The ship would likely be accompanied by a P-8A surveillance plane, the official said.

U.S. Navy to send destroyer within 12 miles of Chinese islands| Reuters

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## 21 Dec 2012

PDF :> Kowtowing to Beijing.......megaton bomb.......


Reality :> ...............[static]...You go...................[static].....You go

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## F-22Raptor

USS Lassen

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cnleio

There only two questions ?
1. Whether China will stop building when USS Lassen into 12miles water
2. Hong long USS Lassen stay in there, one day ? one week ? or one year ?

If today USS coming, tomorrow USS leaving ... i can say there nothing changed, im afraid single one USS Lassen coming cann't attract Chinese eyes ... next time try the A.C Strick Group. It's another ADIZ case(2x B-52 coming), end up with nothing changes.

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Bussard Ramjet

cnleio said:


> There only two questions ?
> 1. Whether China will stop building when USS Lassen into 12miles water
> 2. Hong long USS Lassen stay in there, one day ? one week ? or one year ?
> 
> If today USS coming, tomorrow USS leaving ... i can say there nothing changed, im afraid single one USS Lassen coming cann't attract Chinese eyes ... next time try the A.C Strick Group. It's another ADIZ case(2x B-52 coming), end up with nothing changes.



What you need to understand is the internal politics of US. Obama, and the most senior American diplomats have already conceded South China Sea largely to China, and accept it that way. But Obama is being badgered for being weak, and so on and on. 

He needs to show that he is doing all he can. That is why I think China, should just escort the ships. Don't touch them or say anything, unless they come too near, which is, let's say 5 nautical miles.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## tranquilium

21 Dec 2012 said:


> PDF :> Kowtowing to Beijing.......megaton bomb.......
> 
> 
> Reality :> ...............[static]...You go...................[static].....You go



Well, I didn't want to reply yet, we should wait 20 hours and see what become of it. For your sake, this one better be different from the last time US "challenged" Chinese ADZ,




Which consists of a B52 flying all the way to the edge of Chinese ADZ, poked it and then turned tail. Reminds me of children's prank of ringing someone's doorbell and then run when the owner comes out.

Or, you know, like this, start at 2:55:





Oh, the picture of B52's route in case people can't see the one above:






More of an elementary school child's come back, except with high tech equipment costing a lot of money.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## 21 Dec 2012

cnleio said:


> There only two questions ?
> 1. Whether China will stop building when USS Lassen into 12miles water
> 2. Hong long USS Lassen stay in there, one day ? one week ? or one year ?
> 
> If today USS coming, tomorrow USS leaving ... i can say there nothing changed, im afraid single one USS Lassen coming cann't attract Chinese eyes ... next time try the A.C Strick Group. It's another ADIZ case(2x B-52 coming), end up with nothing changes.


Only 2 questions? Does China not claim territorial waters off these islands? IF not, then what exactly have you achieved by pouring all that sand and yen into them?
If the USN can show that they are nothing more than permanent structures to be avoided during navigating the SCS (which they already were being reefs and all), rather than Chinese sovereign territory accompanied by all the rights granted to it by international laws, especially the 200 mile EEZ - what has China accomplished by making these islands anyway?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Martian2

Martian2 said:


>


*China is implementing a multi-layered defense on South China Sea islands.*

HQ-9 surface-to-air missiles strike targets at long range - People's Daily Online (October 22, 2015)





*HQ-9 SAM:* "A brigade of the PLA launches HQ-9 surface-to-air missiles to strike target at long range. A brigade of the PLA navy recently conducted a live-fire drill at the beach of the South China Sea to beef up fighting and strike capability. (Photo/81.cn)"





*LD-2000 land-based CIWS:* "A brigade of the PLA navy recently conducted a live-fire drill at the beach of the South China Sea to beef up fighting and strike capability. (Photo/81.cn)"





*Mobile ballistic and cruise missiles:* "A brigade of the PLA navy recently conducted a live-fire drill at the beach of the South China Sea to beef up fighting and strike capability. (Photo/81.cn)"





*Command-and-control center:* "A brigade of the PLA navy recently conducted a live-fire drill at the beach of the South China Sea to beef up fighting and strike capability. (Photo/81.cn)"

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## phancong

21 Dec 2012 said:


> Only 2 questions? Does China not claim territorial waters off these islands? IF not, then what exactly have you achieved by pouring all that sand and yen into them?
> If the USN can show that they are nothing more than permanent structures to be avoided during navigating the SCS, rather than Chinese sovereign territory accompanied by all the rights granted to it by international laws, especially the 200 mile EEZ - what has China accomplished by making these islands anyway?





China achieve their objectives to enforce their claim of soveignty to the SCS, further to challenge the US naval power in the region, those structure are useful in both peace time or war time.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## 21 Dec 2012

phancong said:


> China achieve their objectives to enforce their claim of soveignty to the SCS


Does watching USN ships sail by, unchallenged, not only in the remainder of SCS but even inside the 12 NM zone, count as 'Chinese _soveignty_'?


----------



## RayOfLight

Cross this line..

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Tom99

The Americans are not anymore challenging China's sovereignty with this display than when China sailed 5 of its naval ships within US's 12 miles coast line near Alaska. 

[url=http://www.wsj.com/articles/chinese-navy-ships-off-alaska-passed-through-u-s-territorial-waters-1441350488]Chinese Navy Ships Came Within 12 Nautical Miles of U.S. Coast[/URL]


> Chinese navy ships off Alaska in recent days weren’t just operating in the area for the first time: They also came within 12 nautical miles of the coast, making a rare foray into U.S. territorial waters, according to the Pentagon.
> 
> Pentagon officials said late Thursday that the five Chinese navy ships had passed through U.S. territorial waters as they transited the Aleutian Islands, but said they had complied with international law and didn’t do anything threatening.
> 
> “This was a legal transit of U.S. territorial seas conducted in accordance with the Law of the Sea Convention,” said Pentagon spokesman Cmdr. Bill Urban.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## 大汉奸柳传志

WTF hasnt the US done it already？I remember reading the same crap last month，probably posted by the same F22 dude...

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Sanchez

I think there'd be some escort or pushes to the approaching US ship around the islands, and then China would announce installation of military facilities for future defence.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## DaiViet

utp45 said:


> WTF hasnt the US done it already？I remember reading the same crap last month，probably posted by the same F22 dude...


This is different. Last month post was a will do thing. This month is doing.

After all tought talk from China, the more U.S. pushing, China fall into defense stance. First Chinese said, dont you dare enter near our island, then U.S sail near their islands, Chinese said, dont you dare enter our 12 nm, U.S. enter 12 nm, the Chinese said, dont you dare to enter 2 nm, when U.S enter 2nm, the Chinese will says, Ok you go, U.S. Stays, the Chinese says, ok that is fine as long as you dont touch us.

If U.S. Ship = poor Vietnamese fishermen ship, the Chinese will sink it. That is Chinese, yeh that is right.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ahtan_china

DaiViet said:


> This is different. Last month post was a will do thing. This month is doing.
> 
> After all tought talk from China, the more U.S. pushing, China fall into defense stance. First Chinese said, dont you dare enter near our island, then U.S sail near their islands, Chinese said, dont you dare enter our 12 nm, U.S. enter 12 nm, the Chinese said, dont you dare to enter 2 nm, when U.S enter 2nm, the Chinese will says, Ok you go, U.S. Stays, the Chinese says, ok that is fine as long as you dont touch us.
> 
> If U.S. Ship = poor Vietnamese fishermen ship, the Chinese will sink it. That is Chinese, yeh that is right.


Sir,refer to the U-2 and SR-71 spy plane were shoot down in 50+ years ago

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## gambit

tranquilium said:


> Well, I didn't want to reply yet, we should wait 20 hours and see what become of it. For your sake, this one better be different from the last time US "challenged" Chinese ADZ,
> 
> Which consists of a B52 flying all the way to the edge of Chinese ADZ, poked it and then turned tail. Reminds me of children's prank of ringing someone's doorbell and then run when the owner comes out.
> 
> More of an elementary school child's come back, except with high tech equipment costing a lot of money.


So if the US does it, it is childish. But China does it, then it is bold.

Got it...

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## F-22Raptor

It's also being reported this will become a regular occurrence, not a one time thing.

U.S. Navy to send destroyer within 12 miles of Chinese islands| Reuters

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## ahtan_china

F-22Raptor said:


> It's also being reported this will become a regular occurrence, not a one time thing.
> 
> U.S. Navy to send destroyer within 12 miles of Chinese islands| Reuters


Refer to the USNS Impeccable. We will watch the show.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Beast

F-22Raptor said:


> It's also being reported this will become a regular occurrence, not a one time thing.
> 
> U.S. Navy to send destroyer within 12 miles of Chinese islands| Reuters


It say it will do soon on Tuesday. We shall be waiting

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## F-22Raptor

The USS Lassen has begun FON operations. It's mission began at 6:40 am local time.

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/8a05582e-7c18-11e5-98fb-5a6d4728f74e.html#axzz3piZ40sku

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Aepsilons

F-22Raptor said:


> The USS Lassen has begun FON operations. It's mission began at 6:40 am local time.
> 
> http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/8a05582e-7c18-11e5-98fb-5a6d4728f74e.html#axzz3piZ40sku



Pictures, pictures, please. 

Yoisshhhhh!!!!

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Carach Angren

ahtan_china said:


> Sir,refer to the U-2 and SR-71 spy plane were shoot down in 50+ years ago



No SR-71 was lost to hostile fire. 12 crashed killing one pilot. 

_During its service life, no SR-71 was shot down._



ahtan_china said:


> Refer to the USNS Impeccable. We will watch the show.



Yes, good job harassing an unarmed ship.






Following the incident USS Chung-Hoon was assigned to protect USNS Impeccable. Not exactly a desirable outcome for China. Going from unarmed to defended by a Flight IIA Arleigh Burke class destroyer. USNS Impeccable continued with its mission, tracking Chinese submarines, unabated and without further incident.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## F-22Raptor

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Pictures, pictures, please.
> 
> Yoisshhhhh!!!!



We'll probably get videos. It looks like they'll spend several hours near those islands.

US Navy destroyer Lassen nears Spratly islands, China territory challenged

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Economic superpower

China will continue to build on the islands and militarise them.

US is utterly powerless and helpless to stop that from happening.

China will build more coast guard ships and naval ships and deploy them to patrol the SCS to make sure China has ABSOLUTE control of the SCS.

US patrols won't make a difference to China's long term plans of militarising the islands. Unless the US can stop the construction by China, China is winning this game BIG TIME!

More and more countries are no longer afraid to challenge American power. Everyone sees the rapid and terminal decline of America and their aura of invincibility is being shredded to pieces.

What you're seeing is the beginning of the end of the American empire and its desperate attempts to save face as China (AIIB, ADIZ, cyber, RMB in SDR, etc), Russia (Crimea, Syria, etc), Iran and others lose respect for the US and ignore the US and just do whatever they want.

American decline is what the British went through in the early 20th century. The British found its empire weakening internally and others started to challenge and change the status quo as its ability to stop others was weakening with each passing year. America is going through the same phase.

It's all over for the American empire. All it can do is manage its decline.

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## j20blackdragon

I'm not even worried.

If war didn't start after these two incidents below, why would it start now?

Third Taiwan Strait Crisis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hainan Island incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The US will sail within 12 nautical miles.
China will issue some warnings.
Absolutely *nothing* will happen.
Everyone will forget about it in a few weeks.
Island construction continues.
The US will have wasted their time as usual.

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## Dungeness

j20blackdragon said:


> I'm not even worried.
> 
> If war didn't start after these two incidents below, why would it start now?
> 
> Third Taiwan Strait Crisis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Hainan Island incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> The US will sail within 12 nautical miles.
> China will issue some warnings.
> Absolutely *nothing* will happen.
> Everyone will forget about it in a few weeks.
> Island construction continues.
> The US will have wasted their time as usual.




It is going to be U-2 all over again. We all know the outcome.


----------



## Azeri440

Economic superpower said:


> China will continue to build on the islands and militarise them.
> 
> US is utterly powerless and helpless to stop that from happening.
> 
> China will build more coast guard ships and naval ships and deploy them to patrol the SCS to make sure China has ABSOLUTE control of the SCS.
> 
> US patrols won't make a difference to China's long term plans of militarising the islands. Unless the US can stop the construction by China, China is winning this game BIG TIME!
> 
> More and more countries are no longer afraid to challenge American power. Everyone sees the rapid and terminal decline of America and their aura of invincibility is being shredded to pieces.
> 
> What you're seeing is the beginning of the end of the American empire and its desperate attempts to save face as China (AIIB, ADIZ, cyber, RMB in SDR, etc), Russia (Crimea, Syria, etc), Iran and others lose respect for the US and ignore the US and just do whatever they want.
> 
> American decline is what the British went through in the early 20th century. The British found its empire weakening internally and others started to challenge and change the status quo as its ability to stop others was weakening with each passing year. America is going through the same phase.
> 
> It's all over for the American empire. All it can do is manage its decline.



LOL another clown emerges 

the whole point of these islands is to expand territorial waters of China , if US ignores them then what has been done is an utter waste. as to militarizing islands , think with your tiny a little bit and try to figure out how easy of a target a militarized island will be for ships operating far away.

decline of American empire? America is having a good time right now , growing faster compared to the whole last decade+. 

If US hasn't "collapsed" a decade ago , what makes you think it will now 

Ukraine was never in NATO , so US was never obliged to protect Crimea , only delusional morons bring that up to point towards "American Decline" 

Syria , what has US lost in Syria exactly? they still conduct their operations in Syria and Iraq , additional 12 A-10s were sent to Turkey for missions in Iraq and Syria.

all this is while US has a pacifist president in power.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## F-22Raptor

WASHINGTON—A U.S. Navy destroyer sailed within 12 nautical miles of artificial islands claimed by China, in a direct challenge to Beijing that raises the stakes in an expanding, multination territorial dispute.

An American defense official confirmed Monday that the U.S. Navy ship navigated through the waters around at least one of the land masses to which China lays claim within the Spratly chain of islands in the South China Sea, crossing an area that China maintains is part of its sovereign territory.

International convention allows countries to claim territorial waters within 12 nautical miles of their coastal territory, but the U.S. and many other countries don’t recognize China’s claims to almost all of the South China Sea. Thus U.S. officials labeled Monday’s operation a “freedom of navigation” exercise.

Several U.S. defense officials said the navigation through the islands wasn’t a one-time operation, and that the U.S. Navy would continue to sail through waters claimed by Beijing.

U.S. Navy Ship Sails Near Islands Claimed by China - WSJ

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Aepsilons

F-22Raptor said:


> WASHINGTON—A U.S. Navy destroyer sailed within 12 nautical miles of artificial islands claimed by China, in a direct challenge to Beijing that raises the stakes in an expanding, multination territorial dispute.
> 
> An American defense official confirmed Monday that the U.S. Navy ship navigated through the waters around at least one of the land masses to which China lays claim within the Spratly chain of islands in the South China Sea, crossing an area that China maintains is part of its sovereign territory.
> 
> International convention allows countries to claim territorial waters within 12 nautical miles of their coastal territory, but the U.S. and many other countries don’t recognize China’s claims to almost all of the South China Sea. Thus U.S. officials labeled Monday’s operation a “freedom of navigation” exercise.
> 
> Several U.S. defense officials said the navigation through the islands wasn’t a one-time operation, and that the U.S. Navy would continue to sail through waters claimed by Beijing.
> 
> U.S. Navy Ship Sails Near Islands Claimed by China - WSJ



Please forward all Intel to JSDF, please and thank you.


----------



## Dungeness

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Please forward all Intel to JSDF, please and thank you.




Are you working in official capacity on PDF? You sounded like a member of JSDF in active duty. Just curious.


----------



## Genesis

21 Dec 2012 said:


> Only 2 questions? Does China not claim territorial waters off these islands? IF not, then what exactly have you achieved by pouring all that sand and yen into them?
> If the USN can show that they are nothing more than permanent structures to be avoided during navigating the SCS (which they already were being reefs and all), rather than Chinese sovereign territory accompanied by all the rights granted to it by international laws, especially the 200 mile EEZ - what has China accomplished by making these islands anyway?



First current international law states, any nation can go within 12 miles IF they are just passing through. China has made a challenge to this, but then we sailed within 12 miles of Alaska, so I guess that's no longer in stone. 

The US didn't do anything to offend the CURRENT law, which means, even though this is suppose to be a challenge, but it in fact recognizes the islands, because they didn't do, say launch a missiles or something. 

The fact the US feels the need to sail within these 12 miles really says it all. Without these islands, the US wouldn't even need to make this challenge.


Read something other than propaganda, the current Chinese AIDZ in the east sea, is essentially established, it's not 100%, but we are getting the desired results by having more fighter sorties and more resources in general than Japan. 

Also consider this, in 1989 we were sanctioned, in 1996, two carrier groups were deployed, in 2015, a ship sails into the 12 mile zone, which ironically recognizes our claim. 

I say that's pretty good progress.



DaiViet said:


> If U.S. Ship = poor Vietnamese fishermen ship, the Chinese will sink it. That is Chinese, yeh that is right.



If Chinese plane = Iranian air line, US will also destroy it. What's your point.

Anyways, China and Vietnam had "2000"" of these incidents according to Vietnam, and no sinking yet.



Azeri440 said:


> decline of American empire? America is having a good time right now , growing faster compared to the whole last decade+.
> 
> If US hasn't "collapsed" a decade ago , what makes you think it will now



First day on he internet I see. Americans says we collapse, for about 20 years now, even though today we grow another China every year relative to early 2000s. 

We say the US collapses, even though it's doing fine, it just doesn't have the same advantage it once had. 

Don't worry, you'll feel better on your second day.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Economic superpower

Azeri440 said:


> LOL another clown emerges
> 
> the whole point of these islands is to expand territorial waters of China , if US ignores them then what has been done is an utter waste. as to militarizing islands , think with your tiny a little bit and try to figure out how easy of a target a militarized island will be for ships operating far away.
> 
> decline of American empire? America is having a good time right now , growing faster compared to the whole last decade+.
> 
> If US hasn't "collapsed" a decade ago , what makes you think it will now
> 
> Ukraine was never in NATO , so US was never obliged to protect Crimea , only delusional morons bring that up to point towards "American Decline"
> 
> Syria , what has US lost in Syria exactly? they still conduct their operations in Syria and Iraq , additional 12 A-10s were sent to Turkey for missions in Iraq and Syria.
> 
> all this is while US has a pacifist president in power.



LOL

The US has been in decline for 15 years as its economy has been dead with 0% interest rates and bubbles in housing and bond market propping up its Ponzi scheme QE economy. It's labour force participation is at record lows which shows its middle class is shrinking and the people working are in part time jobs. Median income shrinking. Its debt continues to grow while its corporations are no longer the only ones in their respective sectors and companies from other countries are ending its monopolies.

It used to be number 1 in many areas (trade, manufacturing, market in different segments, etc) even 5 years ago which they are no longer.

America is just becoming a normal country as others are challenging its monopoly power. No one challenged American power 5 years ago and now everyone is challenging it. Things like BRICS bank, AIIB, ADIZ, SCS, Crimea, Syria, Renminbi, CIPS, cyber, brands, supercomputers, weapons sales, financing poor countries, infrastructure construction, consumer market, investing, technology monopoly etc etc etc the list is endless.

It had no challengers in many areas a few years ago but now it faces challenges from many areas and it has to manage its relative decline and absolute decline.

American power is based on holding a monopoly in all areas. As other countries end that monopoly, America's ability to dominate affairs diminishes over time.

Only a delusional noob like you thinks the US isn't in decline. It's a combination of others catching up and American decline.

You can pretend the US isn't in decline all you want, won't change reality buddy.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## TaiShang

We understand that the US now recognizes the islands as they keep getting bigger and more peace and security structures are built upon them.

We acknowledge that the US has an issue with the 12 NM rule for vessels passing by. As @Genesis mentions, that's a two-way street. Now that China already returned the favor and will do more frequently so; I guess all is fine.

It is China playing the catch-up game. The US only is acting to keep its great power home turf. Due to the nature of things in historical/contextual sense, we got to accept them as they are.

*We are Marxists; we pay as much attention, if not more, to contexts as facts.*

The US seems to come to understand and acknowledge that the island genesis and build-up efforts will continue with or without US ships passing by.

Consider this a capability build-up for immediate and future purposes.

12NM is another animal. After all, China's immediate concern is the sovereignty over and build-up on the islands. Now that this is now an established and undisputed fact, that's a strategic gain.

China never claimed the SCS in its entirety. What we really care about the islands, that are, not by chance, the biggest in the SCS.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## EAsian

Let's see what will happen,pretty interesting.


----------



## Sanchez

I am afraid of coming escalation of the event. China's sea police or PLANY has to respond...
China claims the islands/reefs and the EEZ within the 9 dotted lines.

Send some larger ships to cruise around the rocks...


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

lavenge lavenge said:


> This is more of a polite ,yet firm, way of reminding China that according to International law, artificial structures does not have a maritime territorial claim. To have territorial waters, an Island should be habitable, and should not submerge completely during high tide in its natural state,which Chinese artificial Islands do no, hence no territorial sea for them.



So when Chinese ships sailed within 12 nautical miles of Alaska, what does that mean?

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## F-22Raptor

A U.S. Navy ship passed within 12 nautical miles of disputed islands in the South China Sea late Monday in an apparent challenge to China's territorial claims in the region.

A defense official told the Associated Press that the USS Lassen, a guided missile destroyer, moved inside what China claims as a 12-mile territorial limit around Subi Reef in the Spratly Islands archipelago, a disputed group of hundreds of reefs, islets, atolls and islands in the South China. The official said the patrol took place without incident.

"We are conducting routine operations in the South China Sea in accordance with international law," a senior defense official told Fox News. "We will fly, sail, and operate anywhere in the world that international law allows."

The Navy's plan to send a destroyer near the Spratly Islands was first reported by Reuters.

Asked for comment about the U.S. move, a spokesman at the Chinese embassy in Washington, Zhu Haiquan, told the Associated Press China respects freedom of navigation in the South China Sea.

"Freedom of navigation and overflight should not be used as excuse to flex muscle and undermine other countries' sovereignty and security," he said. "We urge the United States to refrain from saying or doing anything provocative and act responsibly in maintaining regional peace and stability."

China's assertive behavior in the South China Sea has become an increasingly sore point in relations with the United States, even as President Barack Obama and China's President Xi Jinping have sought to deepen cooperation in other areas, such as climate change.

China claims virtually all of the South China Sea. The Philippines and other countries that have territorial disputes with China in the busy sea have been particularly concerned by China's recent land reclamation projects that have turned a number of previously submerged reefs in the Spratly archipelago into artificial islands with runways and wharves.

"We have been clear that we take no position on competing territorial sovereignty claims to land features in the South China Sea," the senior defense official told Fox News late Monday. "U.S. Freedom of Navigation operations are global in scope and executed against a wide range of excessive maritime claims, irrespective of the coastal state advancing the excessive claim. The longstanding FON program is not directed at any specific country."

Adm. Harry Harris Jr., commander of the U.S. Pacific Command, has previously said the South China Sea is no more China's than the Gulf of Mexico is Mexico's.

US Navy ship passes disputed islands claimed by China | Fox News

China backs down, as expected...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Roybot

Whatever happened to the Americans being scared of the mighty Chinese and only sending a puny LCS?

Kowtowing to Beijing, USA officially declines to deploy fleet to South China Sea

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Nilgiri

How hard would it be for the US destroyer to scoop some soil from the sea bed while they are there and indulge in some "resource extraction"  just to see the Chinese whine about it?

Or just give some fishing tackle to the sailors to catch what they can. Take pictures and post them hehe.

USN should schedule a live stream on youtube from the destroyer. That would be killer.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## DaiViet

ok so china does not do anything? wow that is unlike han warriors here big talk anything. let me guess chinese will try to spin this to China win and u.s lose again.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Cossack25A1

The thing is, what the US is doing is to ensure Freedom of Navigation, yet the Mainland Chinese think it is a provocation and a sign of declaration of war.

I wonder what will happen to non-Chinese merchant fleets if the islands will have military installations? Will they be forced to hail the PLA in the area just to have a safe passage? This reminds me of the concept of medieval castles called "Pfalzgrafenstein Castle" and "Gutenfels Castle" in Germany.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Rechoice

There is big mastake made by China, PLAN. China can't challange USA navy in SCS

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TaiShang

*China Straining U.S.-U.K. Relations; South China Sea At Center?*
OCT 21, 2015 , Forbes

In the art of statecraft, as in much else, Britain has never ceased being the master, and America the more often than not easily distracted, generally poor student.

Disparate policy stances and strategies toward China are now providing vivid and highly edifying example of this.

“US takes stern line on UK’s shirt to China,” declares a headline in the October 20 _Financial Times_. 

Notes the FT, while Chinese president Xi Jinping received the expected honors in Washington during his state visit last month, and will enjoy the comparable treatment in London, “China experts in Washington say…the two Atlantic allies have diverged in the way they treat the rising Pacific power.” 

Let me state my position clearly: In my view, the British approach to China is the correct one. 





The Duchess of Cambridge and Chinese President Xi Jinping listen as Britain’s Queen Elizabeth II speaks at a state banquet in the Ballroom at Buckingham Palace, London, on the first day of the state visit to the Britain, Tuesday Oct. 20, 2015. (Dominic Lipinski/Pool Photo via AP)

Prime Minister David Cameron and his chancellor George Osborne have concluded that Britain’s national interests are served by “positively engaging” (my term) China. This means actively promoting activities, most obviously and materially commerce, that are “win-win.” 

It also means–and here we can appreciate the depth of British diplomatic sophistication–not picking fights and pushing agendas that have little or no relevance to national interests, which are essentially _cultural_ and historical in origin.

The Brits–based on several centuries of experience–appreciate that, as Kipling wrote: “East is East and West is West.” That China’s 5000 year old political culture contains attitudes and mores that offend some Western sensibilities–particularly in more “progressive” countries like the United States–is accepted in Britain as a given, a fact of life, rather than as a challenge. 





British Chancellor of the Exchequer George Osborne, left, shakes hands with Chinese Premier Li Keqiang before their meeting at the Zhongnanhai Leadership Compound Monday, Sept. 21, 2015 in Beijing, China. (Lintao Zhang/Pool Photo via AP)

From their own history and experience, the Brits would see little or no positive purpose or outcome in lecturing others–least of all China–on the proper conduct of its internal politics and law. True to their traditions, what the Brits want from China is “trade”–a term that nowadays includes reciprocal investment, project development, technology transfer, and like. 

It was such clear-headed thinking by which Cameron’s government decided in March to break ranks with a would-be U.S. boycott and to join the China-promoted Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank (AIIB) as a founding member.

Such sobriety seems to elicit mainly incomprehension and derision from Washington, where bureaucratic self-interest seems to have placed every matter involving China in a “zero-sum” paradigm. 

The FT article quotes Evan Medeiros, now at Eurasia Group after having been head of the China desk of the National Security Council: “If there is one truism in relations with a rising China, it is that if you give in to Chinese pressure, it will inevitably lead to more Chinese pressure. London is playing a dangerous game of tactical accommodation in the hopes of economic benefits, which could lead to more problems down the line.”

A clearer expression of the gap between U.S. and U.K. mindsets would be hard to find.





Australia’s Treasurer Joe Hockey (C) holds up his pen as he becomes the first to sign an articles of association to help set up the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank (AIIB) during a ceremony at the Great Hall of the People in Beijing on June 29, 2015. The 57 founding member countries of the China-led Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank (AIIB) began signing articles of association setting up the new institution on June 29. The AIIB, which will have billions of dollars to lend, is expected to go into operation later this year. AFP PHOTO / WANG ZHAO (Photo credit should read WANG ZHAO/AFP/Getty Images)

Except that the Brits have calculated that “problems down the line”–if any–will be manageable, and are no reason _a priori_ to insert essentially gratuitous conflict into the relationship.

*The American national security establishment is incapable of this kind of calculus. *And the self-serving obsession with chimerical “problems down the road” is roiling relations with China now, particularly in the South China Sea (SCS).

An authoritative commentator on SCS issues is Dr. Sam Bateman who retired from the Royal Australian Navy as a Commodore and is now a professional research fellow at the Australian National Centre for Ocean Resources and Security (ANCORS). Bateman was awarded his PhD from the University of New South Wales in 2001 for a dissertation on “The Strategic and Political Aspects of the Law of the Sea in East Asian Seas.”

Writing in The Strategist blog of the Australian Strategic Policy Institute in May Bateman asks: “Does the US know what it’s doing in the South China Seas?” 

He continues: *“The idea that the US may send military aircraft and ships to assert freedom of navigation around Chinese claimed islands in the South China Sea is seriously bad. It’s bad because it would involve an unreasonably assertive interpretation of the international law of the sea, and because it shows such little regard for the impact of such action on regional stability.”*

My guess is that the Brits–who know something about naval affairs–would agree. 

Particularly, as Bateman writes: *“The second issue [the first was debatable validity of claims] is the oft-stated line from Washington that China threatens the freedom of navigation in the South China Sea. But what freedoms are being threatened?* 

*“China has always said that with freedoms of navigation and overflight, it only disputes the right of the US to conduct military activities, particularly certain types of intelligence collection and military data gathering (so-called ‘military surveys’) in its exclusive economic zone (EEZ).*

“The last law of the sea issue arises from reports that the options being considered in Washington include sending aircraft and ships _within_ 12 nautical miles of the reefs and islands occupied by China….





China’s Defense Minister Chang Wanquan addresses the Xiangshan Forum, a gathering of the region’s security officials in Beijing, China, Friday, Nov. 21, 2014. Chang said Friday he wants to enhance dialogue to manage disputes with his country’s neighbors, sounding a conciliatory note after years of sharpened confrontations over territorial claims on land and sea.(AP Photo/Ng Han Guan)

“Even though the features may not be full ‘islands’ under UNCLOS, they have a territorial sea. Sending ships and aircraft into such waters specifically for demonstrating a right wouldn’t be a legitimate exercise of innocent passage. UNCLOS makes clear that innocent passage should be ‘continuous and expeditious,’ and shouldn’t involve ‘any threat or use of force against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of the coastal State.”

Concludes Bateman: “For all these reasons, the action contemplated by the US looks like a dangerously unilateral assertion of rights by Washington…Provoking China in such an aggressive and unnecessary many can only make the current situation worse. One wonders whether the US know what it’s doing in the South China Sea…”

*And finally: “What does all this mean for Australia? Basically, it means we should keep well clear of what the US is contemplating, including joining Washington in these protests against China.”*

Could David Cameron and George Osborne be heeding Bateman’s advice? *My guess is yes, and for very good reasons. Britain is showing that it will break ranks when American “leadership” is heading in the wrong direction. *

That relations with China have become possibly the most serious conflict in U.S.-U.K. relations is of historic importance.

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

Rechoice said:


> There is big mastake made by China, PLAN. China can't challange USA navy in SCS



sure we can. We aren't Vietnam.



Cossack25A1 said:


> The thing is, what the US is doing is to ensure Freedom of Navigation, yet the Mainland Chinese think it is a provocation and a sign of declaration of war.
> 
> I wonder what will happen to non-Chinese merchant fleets if the islands will have military installations? Will they be forced to hail the PLA in the area just to have a safe passage? This reminds me of the concept of medieval castles called "Pfalzgrafenstein Castle" and "Gutenfels Castle" in Germany.



just as PLAN sailing through Alaskan waters is demonstrating freedom of navigation and Taiwanese ships sailing into Philippine waters is also demonstrating right of innocent passage, yet Filipino regime kills unarmed Taiwanese sailors. Zero Filipino sailors have been killed by the Chinese navy. And then you wonder, why are the islands being militarized? What did we do wrong? LMAO GTFO.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Genesis

Cossack25A1 said:


> The thing is, what the US is doing is to ensure Freedom of Navigation, yet the Mainland Chinese think it is a provocation and a sign of declaration of war.
> 
> I wonder what will happen to non-Chinese merchant fleets if the islands will have military installations? Will they be forced to hail the PLA in the area just to have a safe passage? This reminds me of the concept of medieval castles called "Pfalzgrafenstein Castle" and "Gutenfels Castle" in Germany.


It's 2015, you doubt China's ability to sink ships without these islands. 

These islands will be mostly civilian, perhaps with a military element, but it'll be an after thought. 



F-22Raptor said:


> China backs down, as expected...



Did you expect China to start firing missiles. If US didn't fire when we transited Alaska, why should we do any different here. 

As I said before, the US not doing any military activities is the defacto recognition of Chinese sovereignty. As transit is allowed under international law. If the US started to fire a missile, even if at nothing, or a few rounds, then it be a different story. That didn't take place.

Chinese strategy has always been complain until we can do it, then everything flies. You will hear less and less about the no military activities in EEZ, as our surveillance and resupply ability increases. 



lavenge lavenge said:


> Alsaka is USA's territory, not an artificial structure. Your Islands are artificial structures like an Oil rig. They do not have territorial water under international law and USA is reminding you of the same by sailing within 12 nautical miles of your fake Islands.
> 
> If you are sailing within 12 nautical miles of a nation's territory, you are only entitled to innocent passage which is continuous passage with show of flags and following conditions:
> 
> (a) any threat or use of force against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of the coastal State, or in any other manner in violation of the principles of international law embodied in the Charter of the United Nations;
> 
> (b) any exercise or practice with weapons of any kind;
> 
> (c) any act aimed at collecting information to the prejudice of the defence or security of the coastal State;
> 
> (d) any act of propaganda aimed at affecting the defence or security of the coastal State;
> 
> (e) the launching, landing or taking on board of any aircraft;
> 
> (f) the launching, landing or taking on board of any military device;
> 
> (g) the loading or unloading of any commodity, currency or person contrary to the customs, fiscal, immigration or sanitary laws and regulations of the coastal State;
> 
> (h) any act of wilful and serious pollution contrary to this Convention;
> 
> (i) any fishing activities;
> 
> (j) the carrying out of research or survey activities;
> 
> (k) any act aimed at interfering with any systems of communication or any other facilities or installations of the coastal State;
> 
> (l) any other activity not having a direct bearing on passage.
> 
> 
> 
> USA is going within 12 nautical miles of your fake Islands and staying there to remind you of international law which does not allow you to have territorial water for artificial structures.



As far as I can tell the US didn't stay, they transit, this from the US sources. Until proven otherwise, this is a defacto recognition of Chinese sovereignty.



Roybot said:


> Whatever happened to the Americans being scared of the mighty Chinese and only sending a puny LCS?
> 
> Kowtowing to Beijing, USA officially declines to deploy fleet to South China Sea



You really want to compare troll threads. Go look inside Indian defense section. I say we're still up. 



FairAndUnbiased said:


> So when Chinese ships sailed within 12 nautical miles of Alaska, what does that mean?


let's not bring facts into this, we have our trolls, they have theirs, what can you do.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## jhungary

LOL..........You have to be stupid to believe something like this.



> *“China has always said that with freedoms of navigation and overflight, it only disputes the right of the US to conduct military activities, particularly certain types of intelligence collection and military data gathering (so-called ‘military surveys’) in its exclusive economic zone (EEZ).*



Whoever wrote the aforementioned article know basically nothing about International law at sea.

For argument sake, let's say SCS is Chinese EEZ.

Exclusive Economic Zone is basically an extent of International Water with Economic Right to the EEZ owner. The transit and activities of foreign nation are treated as if they were in international water. Unless US Spy ship or warship stop at Chinese EEZ and started fishing, China have no right to dispute the rights of other from transiting it's EEZ. Wasn't the term "Exclusion *Economic* Zone" already a bit self explanatory?

Territorial water ended at 12 nautical mile, EEZ only give the host country right for* ECONOMIC* activities, military activities are not limited in EEZ.

And then there are UK and US breaking a bond over SCS is simply stupid. US-UK bond built on the threat of Soviet union and currently Russia. UK is not a claimant nor party of interest in SCS. Even US gone to war with China over SCS would have nothing to do with British Government, maybe the UK will lease Diego Garcia to the US for combat operation, that's about it. The same reason why the Brits was absent from Vietnam War.......

This article is too jokish to actually believe it was real...

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## DaiViet

I know for sure China sinks many vietnamese poor fishermen ships in scs outside of 12nm. They even block Vietnam coast guard on rescue mission but they afraid to touch U.S. That is obvious.

Chinese boats tried to sabotage Vietnam’s rescue mission near Paracels: officials | Politics | Thanh Nien Daily

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## AMDR

Can't wait for the actual footage...

But what a beautiful ship!

USS Lassen (DDG-82)

















Meanwhile in the dreams of the CPC...

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Cossack25A1

AMDR said:


> Can't wait for the actual footage...
> Meanwhile in the dreams of the CPC...
> View attachment 267534



What show is this?



Genesis said:


> It's 2015, you doubt China's ability to sink ships without these islands.



That's THE problem - what if China sinks one US Navy ship that just passes by?


----------



## Nilgiri

Cossack25A1 said:


> That's THE problem - what if China sinks one US Navy ship that just passes by?



Chinese are not dumb enough to do that. They be cold calculating SOB's....but definitely not dumb.


----------



## Cossack25A1

FairAndUnbiased said:


> just as PLAN sailing through Alaskan waters is demonstrating freedom of navigation and Taiwanese ships sailing into Philippine waters is also demonstrating right of innocent passage, yet Filipino regime kills unarmed Taiwanese sailors. Zero Filipino sailors have been killed by the Chinese navy. And then you wonder, why are the islands being militarized? What did we do wrong? LMAO GTFO.



Alaska is a natural land, those island on SCS are not.

And why is it that you love bringing an old mistake we made? Do you want us Filipinos to kill some of your fishermen so just you could take delight on how "savage" we are that you are drooling for an invasion plot against us?!



Nilgiri said:


> Chinese are not dumb enough to do that. They be cold calculating SOB's....but definitely not dumb.



Well there are times that dumb decisions have been done in the past by every superpowers that had existed.


----------



## Nilgiri

Cossack25A1 said:


> Do you want us Filipinos to kill some of your fishermen so just you could take delight on how "savage" we are that you are drooling for an invasion plot against us?!



Can PH open up Subic bay for military use by SCS coalition forces (US, Japan + possibly India etc) to refuel/replenish/visit? Has that option been considered anywhere?


----------



## TaiShang

Apparently there is a change in the status quo. Buckling down under the US pressure would be a miscalculation for UK since China guarantees that SCS FON is under protection and China, more than anybody else, cares about it being the largest trading nation in the world.

UK's opportunism might as well serve another dent in the subservient nature of Atlanticism.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Cossack25A1

Nilgiri said:


> Can PH open up Subic bay for military use by SCS coalition forces (US, Japan + possibly India etc) to refuel/replenish/visit? Has that option been considered anywhere?



It has been re-opened, though we are making another naval base in Oyster Bay in Palawan which is nearer to the contested region in SCS.


----------



## Genesis

Cossack25A1 said:


> That's THE problem - what if China sinks one US Navy ship that just passes by?



Why would we do that? You got to see between the lines. China is filing complains, but not doing anything. YET, in the last few years, increase fighter sorties, both to intercept and to challenge in the East Sea. Spy ship off to RIMPAC, submarines, and other ships into both US territorial waters, and other country's EEZ and territorial waters when called upon. 

The final goal is to be able to do exactly what the US is doing to the US and others, not to actually stop these actions. They benefit the nations that can actually do them. 

Think of it like a billionaire, before they were rich, they call for higher taxes for the rich to even the playing field, as soon as they become rich themselves, the narrative changes. But this only seem fun if you can actually change the narrative. 



Cossack25A1 said:


> Alaska is a natural land, those island on SCS are not.
> 
> And why is it that you love bringing an old mistake we made? Do you want us Filipinos to kill some of your fishermen so just you could take delight on how "savage" we are that you are drooling for an invasion plot against us?!



Alaska is natural land, but the US is currently treading these islands as natural land, because transit is ALLOWED. I never understood the need for this move, as it's not much of a move, unless military action is to be taken.( I don't mean killing, just any action not sanctioned in the UNCLOS)

Until I see a report that says otherwise, this move doesn't make sense yet.



Nilgiri said:


> Can PH open up Subic bay for military use by SCS coalition forces (US, Japan + possibly India etc) to refuel/replenish/visit? Has that option been considered anywhere?


I'm sure they can do this now. What you are suggesting isn't a base, just plain visits which China is currently doing in Europe somewhere.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## AMDR

Nilgiri said:


> Can PH open up Subic bay for military use by SCS coalition forces (US, Japan + possibly India etc) to refuel/replenish/visit? Has that option been considered anywhere?



http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/09/2...ubic-bay.html?referer=https://www.google.com/



Cossack25A1 said:


> What show is this?


No clue

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Genesis

Cossack25A1 said:


> Well there are times that dumb decisions have been done in the past by every superpowers that had existed.


True, but usually not against other superpowers.

Russians shot down a Korean airline, America did the same to an Iranian one. Neither has shot each other's down.

Which is why nonalignment is good, this proxy war stuff is really only fun for the superpowers. Not the countries getting pounded on.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## TaiShang

Genesis said:


> The final goal is to be able to do exactly what the US is doing to the US and others, not to actually stop these actions.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Genesis

Cossack25A1 said:


> What show is this?



American propaganda. What did you think it was.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Nilgiri

Cossack25A1 said:


> Well there are times that dumb decisions have been done in the past by every superpowers that had existed.



And todays superpowers and major powers have learnt from those experiences. China is a wise country that is playing long term here. Are they losing something massive with the status quo? Nope. They just keep prodding and poking, and bullying where they can get away with it. And the response by the other countries must be mature and reflective of that.



Cossack25A1 said:


> It has been re-opened, though we are making another naval base in Oyster Bay in Palawan which is nearer to the contested region in SCS.



Ah interesting to know. How big will the Oyster bay be? Will it be deep-water capable or just DDG max sized? 

Also why dont PH and other countries (Vietnam) solve their differences over SCS (where there are overlaps in claims between them)...and then present a united front against China. That way you can coordinate much better. In theory both Subic and Cam Ranh Bay + whatever other ones needed should be integrated together as part of a SCS coalition network...with Naval aviation facilities as well for MPA's from local and foreign deployed assets.



Genesis said:


> I'm sure they can do this now. What you are suggesting isn't a base, just plain visits which China is currently doing in Europe somewhere.



I meant with intent of significant patrol/loiter/dominance in the long run. Possibly even run a multilateral exercise in the area....the discussion should be certainly on the table for PH and Vietnam.


----------



## rcrmj

its only matter of time that the U.S has to accept the reality of China's dominance```

sending a ship to SCS is only a facing saving and cheer-leading action to comfort those monkeys and baboons, to say, yeah! your American master will 'support' your idiocy of challenging China``

and at the end day, we are keep building infrastructures in SCS, and that causes sensational burning to those monkey and baboon clowns` fact

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Economic superpower

Prediction:

Thread will go over 20+ pages.

Members will get banned.

@Hu Songshan You should monitor this thread for trolling and flame baiting before things get out of hand. Some well known trolls have entered the thread and are already flame baiting.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## gambit

Cossack25A1 said:


> That's THE problem - what if China sinks one US Navy ship that just passes by?


Then the PLAN will know what defeat is like.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Genesis

Nilgiri said:


> I meant with intent of significant patrol/loiter/dominance in the long run. Possibly even run a multilateral exercise in the area....the discussion should be certainly on the table for PH and Vietnam.



So....a race to the bottom. Sounds fun. 

The US has enough bases in Asia to launch something, one under-equipped Philippines base will make no difference. Also check the size and quality of the Chinese coast guard, unless the US wants to move its ENTIRE coast guard and more to Asia, it's not going to be effective. 

You seem like a reasonable poser, all in all, do you agree, a couple of moves or islands won't decide much, it is the size of the economy, and might of the gun that decide things. So the well being of China's economy and the continued pumping of billions into China's military industry that's going to be the difference maker.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Gijoe

OH MY !!! US go into 12 miles of artificial island and china still don't stop. What the hell US will do next? Just tomahawk the Chinese people on the island and see if china will stop? only drifting around or staying there to watch china do some pose would not change anything. US go in there just to photo shoot the island and go show to the world we did it. We go in there, and the Chinese not scared at all. lol do something, have some guts or balls shoot them.. please...


----------



## Economic superpower

gambit said:


> Then the PLAN will know what defeat is like.



Yup, exactly like Korean War.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## gambit

Economic superpower said:


> Yup, exactly like Korean War.


Yup...Where China was defeated.


----------



## DaiViet

Seems internet Han warriors have full force in this thread, trying to spin the table around by claiming China wins again and U.S is loser for doing point less

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## 21stCentury

gambit said:


> Yup...Where China was defeated.



Dafuq? Lol! More like mighty US defeated by a backwards China. If China lost, North Korea wouldn't exist you doofus.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## gambit

21stCentury said:


> Dafuq? Lol! More like mighty US defeated by a backwards China. If China lost, North Korea wouldn't exist you dingus.


And if the US was defeated, South Korea would not exists, you ignorant and unthinking pup.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## TaiShang

Gijoe said:


> OH MY !!! US go into 12 miles of artificial island and china still don't stop. What the hell US will do next? Just tomahawk the Chinese people on the island and see if china will stop? only drifting around or staying there to watch china do some pose would not change anything. US go in there just to photo shoot the island and go show to the world we did it. We go in there, and the Chinese not scared at all. lol do something, have some guts or balls shoot them.. please...





What can China do, which is only a large *developing* country. China is in no way capable of policing the world and the only thing we can do is to weakly complain. 

US is so _magnaficious_. That's why we let and even urged the US to keep policing in the Middle East, solve all the problems there like it always did and create a fertile ground for us to invest and do business.

US has once again proven how strong it is and we are now shaking in our boots. US really got what it wanted. The SCS will never be the same from this day on. 

US, in one masterful strike, has proven what it is made of: Big Mac, gun and the Bible.

China will continue to complain until the last breath while the US does the doing.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## 21stCentury

DaiViet said:


> Seems internet Han warriors have full force in this thread, trying to spin the table around by claiming China wins again and U.S is loser for doing point less



Why are you cheering for your mortal enemy? Remember they burned millions of Vietnamese with napalm and fire bombs and call your people 'gooks'?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## anon45

21stCentury said:


> Why are you cheering for your mortal enemy? Remember they burned millions of Vietnamese with napalm and fire bombs and call your people 'gooks'?



It seems like the only people on this forum who want Vietnam and the US to be mortal enemies are Chinese...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## 21stCentury

anon45 said:


> It seems like the only people on this forum who want Vietnam and the US to be mortal enemies are Chinese...



It's a reality check.


----------



## Azeri440

21stCentury said:


> Dafuq? Lol! More like mighty US defeated by a backwards China. If China lost, North Korea wouldn't exist you doofus.




do you even know anything about Korean war? 

South Korea was nearly defeated until US stepped in , China had 1,3 million troops on its side while US only had a little over 300 thousand that traveled thousands of miles.

US accomplished it's mission in saving South Korea.


----------



## 21stCentury

Azeri440 said:


> do you even know anything about Korean war?
> 
> South Korea was nearly defeated until US stepped in , China had 1,3 million troops on its side while US only had a little over 300 thousand that traveled thousands of miles.
> 
> US accomplished it's mission in saving South Korea.



Do YOU??

Before China entered the US + NATO army already consumed North Korea and was right at China's border. Then, China with its backwards army and relic tech but lots of balls, pushed the US all the way back to South Korea in one of the biggest retreats in US military. Ever. Being technologically and logistically inferior, China could not hold onto South Korea but the aftermath of the war is that the US is kicked out of China's border and North Korea becomes a buffer zone. 

Remember, China didnt start the Korean War, but it ended it. Like a boss.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## TaiShang

Azeri440 said:


> do you even know anything about Korean war?
> 
> South Korea was nearly defeated until US stepped in , China had 1,3 million troops on its side while US only had a little over 300 thousand that traveled thousands of miles.
> 
> US accomplished it's mission in saving South Korea.



US is so magnabulous. *You *win. Hands down.

Obama was not just ranting when he said "US was, is, has been, had been, will be, would be, would have been a triple A nation."

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Gijoe

Azeri440 said:


> do you even know anything about Korean war?
> 
> South Korea was nearly defeated until US stepped in , China had 1,3 million troops on its side while US only had a little over 300 thousand that traveled thousands of miles.
> 
> US accomplished it's mission in saving South Korea.


Hahahaha only 300 thousand plus best technologies all together would be like 1billion of a soldiers you moron. What on Chinese and North Korea side has? They used stone and stick old technology, as you may said it can be count as zero tech.


----------



## mike jones

DaiViet said:


> Seems internet Han warriors have full force in this thread, trying to spin the table around by claiming China wins again and U.S is loser for doing point less



They could use some motivation. Boasting will help China defeat the USA. You know.


----------



## Nilgiri

Genesis said:


> The US has enough bases in Asia to launch something, one under-equipped Philippines base will make no difference. Also check the size and quality of the Chinese coast guard, unless the US wants to move its ENTIRE coast guard and more to Asia, it's not going to be effective.



Its not about launching something, but sending a message, that a coordinated solid alliance exists, so more efficient use of assets can be accomplished. That's how deterrence is established, especially for smaller nations.



Genesis said:


> You seem like a reasonable poser, all in all, do you agree, a couple of moves or islands won't decide much, it is the size of the economy, and might of the gun that decide things. So the well being of China's economy and the continued pumping of billions into China's military industry that's going to be the difference maker.



In the long run, sure....but Human beings think in terms of few years...at most their lifetime....which is still a puny amount of time compared to human history (which is in itself a minuscule amount of time compared to cosmic timelines). So how much difference anything makes depends on what time frame you are talking about. I mean one of your compatriots in another forum many years back (I recognize his nickname here though I am not 100% certain its him) was saying a Chinese invasion and defeat of Vietnam would happen within a year or two (this was around the anti-China riots I think). That never happened and that's most likely never going to happen because Chinese I know are generally peaceful civilised people...and they have their ultra-nationalists that know not of what war really means just like any other country. Except when you are big nation, their combined voices are even louder....silent majority and all.

All I wish for is that every country's concerns are accommodated, the matter is settled peacefully and another potential flash-point is extinguished early. In the meantime however, each country must take pragmatic decisions and neither create anything that weakens itself or over-extends itself (physically or emotionally).


----------



## 大汉奸柳传志

DaiViet said:


> This is different. Last month post was a will do thing. This month is doing.
> 
> After all tought talk from China, the more U.S. pushing, China fall into defense stance. First Chinese said, dont you dare enter near our island, then U.S sail near their islands, Chinese said, dont you dare enter our 12 nm, U.S. enter 12 nm, the Chinese said, dont you dare to enter 2 nm, when U.S enter 2nm, the Chinese will says, Ok you go, U.S. Stays, the Chinese says, ok that is fine as long as you dont touch us.
> 
> If U.S. Ship = poor Vietnamese fishermen ship, the Chinese will sink it. That is Chinese, yeh that is right.



OK. If the US gets a free pass and other countries still won‘t dare to step in，then what’s the point of calling it free navigation？

China finds an excuse to militarize the islands，US gets a much needed ego boost. That's all.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Kyle Sun

Let's sit and watch the carton of Tom and Jerry.



mike jones said:


> I thought part of China worship to Monkey, pigs, snakes, etc. Why you hating?


You stupid cock even do not have any myth.


----------



## terranMarine

In a twist of event the US decided not to send LCS but a destroyer instead. Now we just wait and see how China deals with it. Nonetheless our construction activities have not been halted, lets be clear about this. The US has so far achieved nothing in persuading China to stop developing our islands. By not sending some battle groups the American government is also sending the message that they do not want to escalate the situation either. So do not get worked up, the Americans just wanna show the world we can still sail in international waters with a destroyer

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Huan

F-22Raptor said:


> WASHINGTON—A U.S. Navy destroyer sailed within 12 nautical miles of artificial islands claimed by China, in a direct challenge to Beijing that raises the stakes in an expanding, multination territorial dispute.
> 
> An American defense official confirmed Monday that the U.S. Navy ship navigated through the waters around at least one of the land masses to which China lays claim within the Spratly chain of islands in the South China Sea, crossing an area that China maintains is part of its sovereign territory.
> 
> International convention allows countries to claim territorial waters within 12 nautical miles of their coastal territory, but the U.S. and many other countries don’t recognize China’s claims to almost all of the South China Sea. Thus U.S. officials labeled Monday’s operation a “freedom of navigation” exercise.
> 
> Several U.S. defense officials said the navigation through the islands wasn’t a one-time operation, and that the U.S. Navy would continue to sail through waters claimed by Beijing.
> 
> U.S. Navy Ship Sails Near Islands Claimed by China - WSJ


Your WSJ article link requires a subscription. Please link a non-greedy American news source that does not require $$$ from the readers.


----------



## cnleio

HEHE ... USS coming make ppl High, well my opinion is Chinese artificial islands building won't stop and speed up.
Unless War, such within 12 miles of island is another ADIZ case after months ppl will forget it, but USS warship won't patrolling months in SCS. 

BTW according to news, USS also will patrol Vietnam/ Philippines islands in SCS ... so just see.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## TaiShang

mike jones said:


> They could use some motivation. Boasting will help China defeat the USA. You know.



US is the best.

China is only a developing nation.



cnleio said:


> HEHE ... USS coming make ppl High, well my opinion is Chinese artificial islands building won't stop and speed up.
> Unless War, such within 12 miles of island is another ADIZ case after months ppl will forget it, but USS warship won't patrolling months in SCS.
> 
> BTW according to news, USS also will patrol Vietnam/ Philippines islands in SCS ... just see.
> 
> View attachment 267545
> View attachment 267546



Artificial islands? 

That's a non issue. US forgot about that. They used to care about it couple of months ago.

What US cares about is now 12NM.

Guess what will they care about few months from now?

China will keep feeding them.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## phancong

China already have 7 island structure to ultilize for peace and war time purpose, in 2 yrs China already have the 7 function island in the middle of the SCS. Pivot to Asia not only allow China to build those artificial island in a short period of time and US hopelessly can't demand China stop further build up those island.


----------



## TaiShang

terranMarine said:


> In a twist of event the US decided not to send LCS but a destroyer instead. Now we just wait and see how China deals with it. Nonetheless our construction activities have not been halted, lets be clear about this. The US has so far achieved nothing in persuading China to stop developing our islands. By not sending some battle groups the American government is also sending the message that they do not want to escalate the situation either. So do not get worked up, the Americans just wanna show the world we can still sail in international waters with a destroyer





US has long forgotten they used to care about artificial islands. 

Wish all China's enemies had had such short memory.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## phancong

Sail through or with 12 nm is pointless when China had the physical structure in the middle of the dispute area, now China literally and physically lay claim to those area. Those island still fly Chinese flag and US battleship can't do anything other than watch from the distance.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cnleio

A U.S. Navy ship* passed within 12 nautical miles of disputed islands* in the South China Sea late Monday in an apparent challenge to China's territorial claims in the region.

A defense official told the Associated Press that the USS Lassen, a guided missile destroyer, moved inside what China claims as a 12-mile territorial limit around Subi Reef in the Spratly Islands archipelago, a disputed group of hundreds of reefs, islets, atolls and islands in the South China. The official said the patrol took place without incident.

"We are conducting routine operations in the South China Sea in accordance with international law," a senior defense official told Fox News. "We will fly, sail, and operate anywhere in the world that international law allows."

The Navy's plan to send a destroyer near the Spratly Islands was first reported by Reuters.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TaiShang

cnleio said:


> View attachment 267550
> 
> 
> A U.S. Navy ship* passed within 12 nautical miles of disputed islands* in the South China Sea late Monday in an apparent challenge to China's territorial claims in the region.
> 
> A defense official told the Associated Press that the USS Lassen, a guided missile destroyer, moved inside what China claims as a 12-mile territorial limit around Subi Reef in the Spratly Islands archipelago, a disputed group of hundreds of reefs, islets, atolls and islands in the South China. The official said the patrol took place without incident.
> 
> "We are conducting routine operations in the South China Sea in accordance with international law," a senior defense official told Fox News. "We will fly, sail, and operate anywhere in the world that international law allows."
> 
> The Navy's plan to send a destroyer near the Spratly Islands was first reported by Reuters.



Freedom of navigation had never been freer.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## 21stCentury

phancong said:


> China already have 7 island structure to ultilize for peace and war time purpose, in 2 yrs China already have the 7 function island in the middle of the SCS. Pivot to Asia not only allow China to build those artificial island in a short period of time and US hopelessly can't demand China stop further build up those island.



The U.S. Pivot to Asia policy gave China the opportunity to unleash a bit of its industrial might.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cnleio

TaiShang said:


> Artificial islands?
> 
> That's a non issue. US forgot about that. They used to care about it couple of months ago.
> 
> What US cares about is now 12NM.
> 
> Guess what will they care about few months from now?
> 
> China will keep feeding them.


I believe few days later ... ppl in PDF will see photos of PLAN warship sailing with USS Lesson DDG near the artificial island. According to news, some China warship including type052D from PLAN South Sea Fleet now near USS Lesson.
【美舰驶进南海岛礁范围逗留数小时 中国军舰尾随喊话驱离】美国国防部一名官员证实，美国海军派出的导弹驱逐舰“拉森号”周二早上驶到中国在南海兴建的多个人工岛礁12海里范围，并逗留数小时。期间，有中国军舰尾随“拉森号”及离远监视，“喊话驱离”，双方没有发生冲突。

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## xunzi

They can sail all the want. We will monitor them and use that threat to speed up our defense post on the island. LOL

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## TaiShang

xunzi said:


> They can sail all the want. We will monitor them and use that threat to speed up our defense post on the island. LOL



US no longer cares about the islands that get bigger and badder by the day. LOL. They care about this 12NM. 

We got the message. We will speed up the progress for even more peace-oriented scientific development across the SCS.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## kawaraj

Well this is a major humiliation to the Chinese when they are only bragging their economic achievement. Tell you the truth, without powerful navy or military strength your wealth only make you the milking cow.

I am surprised China has hesitated to build up its nuclear arsenal to match the US to rebalance its weak navy. What a shame, so called Chinese dream.


----------



## anon45

phancong said:


> Sail through or with 12 nm is pointless when China had the physical structure in the middle of the dispute area, now China literally and physically lay claim to those area. Those island still fly Chinese flag and US battleship can't do anything other than watch from the distance.



Do you hold the same standards to Japan and the Senkaku Islands?


----------



## gambit

TaiShang said:


> Freedom of navigation had never been freer.


No thanks to China.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## kawaraj

gambit said:


> No thanks to China.



Don't mock. His little heart is suffering, and must find China HSR updates to cheer up.


----------



## cnleio

I say again,* there's no direct relation between the "USS Lassen DDG within 12 nautical miles of artificial islands built by China" and "Chinese stop building artificial islands in SCS"* ... it's no matter whether USS passed within 12 nautical miles, (except a Hot War) the artificial islands building won't stop, so one side is USS spending few hours to patrol within 12 nautical miles, another side is Chinese continue building islands ... Trust me after one day USS will leave, after one month ppl including in PDF will forget this case like before.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Kyle Sun

kawaraj said:


> Well this is a major humiliation to the Chinese when they are only bragging their economic achievement. Tell you the truth, without powerful navy or military strength your wealth only make you the milking cow.
> 
> I am surprised China has hesitated to build up its nuclear arsenal to match the US to rebalance its weak navy. What a shame, so called Chinese dream.


You know nothing , Kid.
We are not SU.



kawaraj said:


> Don't mock. His little heart is suffering, and must find China HSR updates to cheer up.


Um. 
Looks like you are very happy to see your master fight China and start to bark now. Good Dog!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## kawaraj

cnleio said:


> I say again,* there's no directcor relation between the "USS Lassen DDG within 12 nautical miles of artificial islands built by China" and "Chinese building artificial islands in SCS"* ... it's no matter whether USS passed within 12 nautical miles, (except a Hot War) the artificial islands building won't stop, so one side is USS spent few hours to patrol within 12 nautical miles, another side is Chinese continue building islands, trust me after one day USS will leave.





Kyle Sun said:


> You know nothing , Kid.
> We are not SU.



I wish you were. At least SU had the courage to confront the US navy and always has a upper hand. Chinese Navy, it's a shame, at least from this incident. Clearly the USN is bullying, and you kowtow.


----------



## cnleio

kawaraj said:


> I wish you were. At least SU has the courage to confront the US navy and always has a upper hand. Chinese Navy, it's a shame, at least from this incident. Clearly the USN is bullying, and you kowtow.


At least u should know, China is not the USSR, both used different ways to solve the problem so both got different results.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Cossack25A1

Nilgiri said:


> Ah interesting to know. How big will the Oyster bay be? Will it be deep-water capable or just DDG max sized?
> 
> Also why dont PH and other countries (Vietnam) solve their differences over SCS (where there are overlaps in claims between them)...and then present a united front against China. That way you can coordinate much better. In theory both Subic and Cam Ranh Bay + whatever other ones needed should be integrated together as part of a SCS coalition network...with Naval aviation facilities as well for MPA's from local and foreign deployed assets.



Looking at the geography of Oyster bay, it smaller compared to Subic Bay, unless the entire Ulugan Bay in Palawan is converted into a naval base as Oyster Bay is part of it.








This would have not become an issue had we not kicked out the Americans in 1991 due to short-sighted, misguided politicians that have been influenced by leftist groups. Also, local politics is an issue as as I said earlier, most of our politicians are short-sighted.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EAsian

We should have lauch some torpedoes an sink them down,if they want it so badly.Our leaders become more and more coward day by day.


----------



## kawaraj

cnleio said:


> At least u should know, China is not the USSR, both used different ways to solve the problem so both got different results.



The USSR is on the other extreme admittedly, but China is too coward to confront a major showdown.

This is not right, and short of strategy maneuver, short of game theory playing, you military philosophy is outdated as old as your Qing empire army.


----------



## Cossack25A1

EAsian said:


> We should have lauch some torpedos an sink them down,if they want it so badly.



Then prepare for war, if you will do it.


----------



## Kyle Sun

kawaraj said:


> I wish you were. At least SU had the courage to confront the US navy and always has a upper hand. Chinese Navy, it's a shame, at least from this incident. Clearly the USN is bullying, and you kowtow.


We have certain national strategy. For now , our top priority is to develop our country.
US tries to provoke us and drag us into mire but we are not as reckless as RU .

1990S
US did something , china protested

2000S
US did something , China protested.

2010S
US did something, China protested
China did something, US protested.

2020S.........
US did something, China protested
China did something, US protested.

2030S........
China did something, US protested.
China did something, US protested.

We will keep hard working .We will keep construction. We will keep humble.

We Chinese do not look forward to instant gratification !!!

You , a bunch of trolls ,will never understand us and just keep a close eye on our rising!!!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## kawaraj

Cossack25A1 said:


> Then prepare for war, if you will do it.



They lack courage. It's nothing tactics or something else. They may have been accustomed to be humiliated since 1800s.


----------



## EAsian

Kyle Sun said:


> We have certain national strategy. For now , our top priority is to develop our country.
> US tries to provoke us and drag us into mire but we are not as reckless as RU .
> 
> 1990S
> US did something , china protested
> 
> 2000S
> US did something , China protested.
> 
> 2010S
> US did something, China protested
> China did something, US protested.
> 
> 2020S.........
> 
> 2030S........
> 
> 
> We Chinese do not look forward to instant gratification !!!
> 
> We will keep hard working , we will keep construction , we will keep studying.
> 
> You , a bunch of trolls ,just keep a close eye on our rising!!!


You should know that if one try to pretend to be a coward too long,then he will become a true coward one day.All you havw said is just prove that China was and is a coward.


----------



## Cossack25A1

kawaraj said:


> They lack courage. It's nothing tactics or something else. They may have been accustomed to be humiliated since 1800s.



Who knows? Considering the nationalistic sentiments being brewed in China which manifests in comments here, some are pretty nasty...


----------



## kawaraj

Kyle Sun said:


> We have certain national strategy. For now , our top priority is to develop our country.
> US tries to provoke us and drag us into mire but we are not as reckless as RU .
> 
> 1990S
> US did something , china protested
> 
> 2000S
> US did something , China protested.
> 
> 2010S
> US did something, China protested
> China did something, US protested.
> 
> 2020S.........
> 
> 2030S........
> 
> 
> We Chinese do not look forward to instant gratification !!!
> 
> We will keep hard working , we will keep construction , we will keep studying.
> 
> You , a bunch of trolls ,just keep a close eye on our rising!!!



YOU ARE ALREADY ON THE TOP OF INDUSTRIAL CAPABILITY. 

Your manufacture is much larger than the US. You are even making half of world iron output, what will be the best time you can confront the US? I am just curious.


----------



## Roybot

@BuddhaPalm what's your thought on this development?


----------



## Kyle Sun

EAsian said:


> You should know that if one try to pretend to be a coward too long,then he will be a true coward one day.All you havw said is just prove that China was and is a coward.


ALl they can do is troll us here.
US can patrol where ever they like .
But their confidence is not so confident now

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Nilgiri

kawaraj said:


> They lack courage. It's nothing tactics or something else. They may have been accustomed to be humiliated since 1800s.



Courage means nothing without intelligence. Then it just becomes insanity.


----------



## cnleio

kawaraj said:


> The USSR is on the other extreme admittedly, but China is too coward to confront a major showdown.
> 
> This is not right, and short of strategy maneuver, short of game theory playing, you military philosophy is outdated as old as your Qing empire army.


LOL ...* FOOLISH !* When did u see Chinese stop building artificial islands in SCS ? Chinese has much more wisdom than crude and rash ... as i said, Chinese artificial islands will be best in SCS, nothing can change it ... that's our purpose, the USS within 12 nautical miles can't change it too.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## kawaraj

Nilgiri said:


> Courage means nothing without intelligence. Then it just becomes insanity.



You don't know them well. They are never short of intelligence. But courage, No.


----------



## EAsian

Kyle Sun said:


> ALl they can do is troll us here.
> US can patrol where ever they like .
> But their confidence is not so confident now


This is just a small test to see how will China response.Compare to the confidence of US，you should care China more。Because what US is is out of our reach.


----------



## Kyle Sun

kawaraj said:


> YOU ARE ALREADY ON THE TOP OF INDUSTRIAL CAPABILITY.
> 
> Your manufacture is much larger than the US. You are even making half of world iron output, what will be the best time you can confront the US? I am just curious.



iron output ?? Do not play the fool here.

Confront US ? We have done that over 60 years ago.

We keep low profile but it does not mean we do not have red line.

You ask your master to invade NK again and see what will happen.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Nilgiri

kawaraj said:


> You don't know them well. They are never short of intelligence. But courage, No.



Are you a Pakistani living in Japan? Just curious.


----------



## EAsian

cnleio said:


> LOL ...* FOOLISH !* When did u see Chinese stop building artificial islands in SCS ? Chinese has much more wisdom than crude and rash ... as i said, Chinese artificial islands will be best in SCS, nothing can change it ... that's our purpose, the USS within 12 nautical miles can't change it too.


I thought Some Chinese leaders have said that those islands will not become military bases,instead they will become some light houses?Haven't checked the details though.


----------



## 21stCentury

kawaraj said:


> They lack courage. It's nothing tactics or something else. They may have been accustomed to be humiliated since 1800s.


 
Lmao! How dafuq is China being humiliated now? How did you come to that conclusion?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## kawaraj

cnleio said:


> LOL ...* FOOLISH !* When did u see Chinese stop building artificial islands in SCS ? Chinese has much more wisdom than crude and rash ... as i said, Chinese artificial islands will be best in SCS, nothing can change it ... that's our purpose, the USS within 12 nautical miles can't change it too.



Fine, what I point out is a major drawbacks of your military strategic deposition. I never deny your wisdom, and I am no fond of the US navy but Chinese in terms of military, you need put more courage on it. 

Courage to the military, is the military to a nation. Without it, a wealthy nation can only serve milking cow purpose. Take notes on this.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cnleio

EAsian said:


> I thought Some Chinese leaders have said that those islands will become military bases,instead they will become some light houses?Haven't checked the details though.


'SCS Casino' indeed .



kawaraj said:


> Fine, what I point out is a major drawbacks of your military strategic deposition. I never deny your wisdom, and I am no fond of the US navy but Chinese in terms of military, you need put more courage on it.
> 
> Courage to the military, is the military to a nation. Without it, a wealthy nation can only serve milking cow purpose. Take notes on this.


As i said before ... after weeks ppl will forget the case, after year whole artificial islands building will be finished... then just see what China to get in SCS . Wisdom & Patience is the best friend for Chinese, not crude and rash ... if China to reach higher goal, we need first one.

Who say Chinese no courage ? We r already N.o1! No matter whether USS coming or not, N.o1 keep getting stronger in SCS. Does USS within 12 nautical miles to change the truth ? Absolutely NOT !

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Roybot

21stCentury said:


> Lmao! How dafuq is China being humiliated now? How did you come to that conclusion?



A foreign naval vessel is prancing around in your so called territorial water, without your permission, if that's not humiliating then I don't know what is.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Kyle Sun

kawaraj said:


> You don't know them well. They are never short of intelligence. But courage, No.


Yes , you Japanese never short of courage. 
Samurai, go kill those US soldiers who raped your girls in japan.

Courage ? My ***!


----------



## 21 Dec 2012

Genesis said:


> Read something other than propaganda,


So speaketh the man from the land of the Great Firewall.


Genesis said:


> First current international law states, any nation can go within 12 miles IF they are just passing through. China has made a challenge to this, but then we sailed within 12 miles of Alaska, so I guess that's no longer in stone.
> 
> The US didn't do anything to offend the CURRENT law, which means, even though this is suppose to be a challenge, but it in fact recognizes the islands, because they didn't do, say launch a missiles or something.
> 
> The fact the US feels the need to sail within these 12 miles really says it all. Without these islands, the US wouldn't even need to make this challenge.
> 
> 
> Read something other than propaganda, the current Chinese AIDZ in the east sea, is essentially established, it's not 100%, but we are getting the desired results by having more fighter sorties and more resources in general than Japan.
> 
> Also consider this, in 1989 we were sanctioned, in 1996, two carrier groups were deployed, in 2015, a ship sails into the 12 mile zone, which ironically recognizes our claim.
> 
> I say that's pretty good progress.


This is just pathetic. The United States has openly declared that it does not recognize the territorial boundaries of these islands and hence making the journey to what should be Chinese territorial waters according to Chinese definition. And you call this accepting Chinese claims? LOL get a load of this guy. 


Genesis said:


> China has made a challenge to this, but then we sailed within 12 miles of Alaska, so I guess that's no longer in stone.


As has already been posted but is apparently too difficult to comprehend, it is called 'innocent passage'. The United States is challenging Chinese territorial claims and not passing through those waters with Chinese authorization. Does China have any such counter-claim to Alaska?


----------



## Kyle Sun

EAsian said:


> This is just a small test to see how will China response.Compare to the confidence of US，you should care China more。Because what US is is out of our reach.


not a test to China but play a political attitude to comfort its side kicks , like Viet/Ph/Jap.


----------



## phancong

US tried to stoke China into a confrontation as of now US still have some kind of upperhand, other US literally destroy those island, China shall continue expand those island and let the US sail through the 12 nm, nothing can change the structure on the island except an actual war.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EAsian

cnleio said:


> 'SCS Casino' indeed .
> 
> 
> As i said before ... after weeks ppl will forget the case, after year whole artificial islands building will be finished... then just see what China to get in SCS . Wisdom & Patience is the best friend for Chinese, not crude and rash ... if China to reach higher goal, we need first one.
> 
> Who say Chinese no courage ? We r already N.o1! No matter whether USS coming or not, N.o1 keep getting stronger in SCS.
> View attachment 267555


What kind of courage one need to build some artificial islands in your own territory？

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## phancong

Play for the longer game, China have the time on it side. Keep build upon those island and continue to develop China economy, build up the naval strength 5 yrs from now, China navy will match US navy with those island militarized, those islands will be very useful in future war on SCS

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## kawaraj

Kyle Sun said:


> Yes , you Japanese never short of courage.
> Samurai, go kill those US soldiers who raped your girls in japan.
> 
> Courage ? My ***!



Admittedly Japan made war crimes on Asian people and that's a no forgiven. Yet,

Japanese attacked pearl harbor, declared war against the US, the most powerful country in the world then.

Japanese also fighted wars with Russia, with China by its less mighty national strength.


As a Chinese, do you think you have the eligibility to judge Japan, just in this sense?


----------



## cnleio

EAsian said:


> What kind of courage one need to build some artificial islands in your own territory？


If we don't build artificial islands in there, might took by foreign,that's the courage ... and u might forget SCS sea battle, that's also courage. Another courage is to setup nine-dashed line & PLAN patrolling inside it ... that's why other nations complaining China in SCS.





So if China lack courage, there won't be any island which thousand miles far away from HaiNan in SCS belong to China. That's Chinese Courage !

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## kawaraj

cnleio said:


> If we don't build artificial islands in there, might took by foreign,that's the courage ... and u might forget SCS sea battle, that's also courage.
> View attachment 267560



He is asking a good question, 
What kind of courage one need to build some artificial islands in your own territory？

You called that courage? Your education must have the wrong definition of courage.


----------



## EAsian

cnleio said:


> If we don't build artificial islands in there, might took by foreign,that's the courage ... and u might forget SCS sea battle, that's also courage. Another courage is to setup nine-dashed line & PLAN patralling inside it ... that's why other nations complain China in SCS.
> View attachment 267560


But everyone is building artificial island in SCS，no courage is needed to build them.


----------



## cnleio

kawaraj said:


> He is asking a good question,
> What kind of courage one need to build some artificial islands in your own territory？
> 
> You called that courage? Your education must have the wrong definition of courage.


See my above post, ths.


----------



## Rechoice

FairAndUnbiased said:


> sure we can. We aren't Vietnam.



Ha ha. we kicked US from Vietnam. China is indirectly invited US navy came in SCS. Chinese is very hight IQ polician.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Kyle Sun

kawaraj said:


> Admittedly Japan made war crimes on Asian people and that's a no forgiven. Yet,
> 
> Japanese attacked pearl harbor, declared war against the US, the most powerful country in the world then.
> 
> Japanese also fighted wars with Russia, with China by its less mighty national strength.
> 
> 
> As a Chinese, do you think you have the eligibility to judge Japan, just in this sense?


it's you who judge us .
it's you who jump into this thread and mock us.
and yes, as a Chinese,i have the eligibility to judge Japan . think about the usa army which are deploied in Japan before you mock Our 12nautical miles issue.


----------



## cnleio

EAsian said:


> But everyone is building artificial island in SCS，no courage is needed to build them.


Everyone building as large as Chinese did in SCS ? Everyone setup nine-dashed line in SCS water ? Everyone sending FFGs patrolling inside the line ?* U r kidding me ...*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EAsian

cnleio said:


> Everyone building as large as Chinese did in SCS ? U r kidding me ...


That's our construction ability，not courage.What courage is that？Are you kidding？


----------



## nadeemkhan110

kawaraj said:


> Admittedly Japan made war crimes on Asian people and that's a no forgiven. Yet,
> 
> Japanese attacked pearl harbor, declared war against the US, the most powerful country in the world then.
> 
> Japanese also fighted wars with Russia, with China by its less mighty national strength.
> 
> 
> As a Chinese, do you think you have the eligibility to judge Japan, just in this sense?


*japan surrender many times in a war history but china is unbeatable till now and now china more stronger then ever.
china is not leaving south china sea.*

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## kawaraj

Kyle Sun said:


> it's you who judge us .
> it's you who jump into this thread and mock us.
> and yes, as a Chinese,i have the eligibility to judge Japan . think about the usa army which are deploied in Japan before you mock Our 12nautical miles issue.



The US defeated Japan in WWII. And the US stationed navy base in defeated Japan. That's nothing to be ashamed.

I make my comment on the US invading into China's clainm sea territory and the PLAN is doing nothing about it. That's nothing wrong either.

I don't follow you well.


----------



## cnleio

EAsian said:


> That's our construction ability，not courage.What courage is that？Are you kidding？


I don't wanna repeat it again, how China get islands from SCS ... don't kidding me again ! Is that some foreign nation gift islands to u for free ? Our construction ability also show how better than others in SCS. Without courage how u willing to spend billions $$$ on some SCS island, if there hot-conflict ?

As u saw, 6x Chinese islands in SCS surrounded by dozens of foreigners ... and now China artificial islands r N.o1,N.o2, N.o3 biggest in SCS ... without Chinese courage, how China did that ? A gift from foreign ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## dy1022

it's a pointless thread, just wasting time in here!


3 PLAN warships already take care of this one alone in SCS for more than 3 weeks time!


----------



## cnleio

Navy & airforce base island building in the sea like "Diego Garcia“ or ”Guam" =/= Chinese no courage, coz the base building not finished yet.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Kyle Sun

kawaraj said:


> The US defeated Japan in WWII. And the US stationed navy base in defeated Japan. That's nothing to be ashamed.
> 
> I make my comment on the US invading into China's clainm sea territory and the PLAN is doing nothing about it. That's nothing wrong either.
> 
> I don't follow you well.


you play the fool again.


----------



## dichoi

_USS Lassen US ship is patrolled closed to reclaimation works where Chinese robbed our Reefs, man made Island is never recognized by rules of international law.




_

Le Ba Hung, oversea Vietnamese, commander of USS Lassen warship.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## TaiShang

In international relations, there is no courage, hate or other moral concepts but only foolish mistakes or strategic feats.

These are peace times; what is important for China is to seek tranquility and harmony in peace time in order to achieve strategic goals to deploy them in war time.

Please keep in mind, Chin has yet to complete its national rejuvenation program. 

SCS is there to stay. Status quo can be readjusted any time. Physical assets and capabilities are what really important.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## dichoi

USS lassen warship has began patrolled in SCS, closed to the Reefs where Chinese robbed from Vietnam in 1988.


----------



## TaiShang

*After the show, it's time for US destroyer to leave*
Published: 2015-10-27 17:38:43

According to Reuters and the Wall Street Journal, the US Navy sent the guided-missile destroyer USLassen within 12 nautical miles of islands built by China in the South China Sea. US officials claimed that the action is aimed at safeguarding the freedom of navigation and did not target China. The patrols could also be conducted around features that Vietnam and the Philippines have built up in the South China Sea. According to the US side, the action has been approved by President Barack Obama, but with no notification for China.

Washington hinted long ago that it would send ships within 12 nautical miles of China's islands, *but it didn't say explicitly what it would do.* The US said the action would last several hours. According to Western media, Chinese navy ships are closely watching the Lassen. The Pentagon is obviously provoking China. *It is time to test the wisdom and determination of the Chinese people.*

We should stay calm.* If we feel disgraced and utter some furious words, it will only make the US achieve its goal of irritating us.*

We should analyze the actual condition of the US harassment.* It seems that the US only wants to display its presence as it didn't raise the imprudent demand that China stops island-building.* It has no intention to launch a military clash with China.* It is just the US' political show. *The UN Convention of the Law of the Sea provides three categories. The first is islands, which are naturally formed, habitable areas above water at high tide, and are therefore entitled to 12 nautical miles of territorial waters and a 200 nautical mile exclusive economic zones (EEZs). The second is reefs that have portions above water at low tide, and are uninhabitable, which have territorial waters but no EEZs. Finally, completely submerged "low tide elevations" have no territorial waters. 

*The islands and reefs in the Nansha Islands under the control of the Chinese mainland belong to the latter two categories. China did not elaborate whether it will expand its territorial seas after land construction. *This is where the ambiguity of the international law. *In addition, China hasn't announced its territorial baseline in the South China Sea*, making the legal meaning of Sino-US contention in the South China Sea vague.

China and the US have no conflicting views over the international law.* Instead, the two are competing with each other over the rules and orders in the South China Sea.* Beijing's construction work in the area is completely legal, and there is nothing Washington can blame it for. Yet, from Washington's perspective, the geopolitical situation in the area will be changed following China's island reclamation. Beijing may seize the advantage to control the Nansha Islands and their adjacent seas. The US also conjectures that China will gain strategic pivots for power projection to the south in the future. Therefore, Washington, annoyed and anxious, has taken actions in order to balance Beijing's clout and to consolidate its dominance in the South China Sea.

*It has to be noticed that China has already carried out construction work in the area. This is the concrete achievements Beijing has gained. Completing building the islands still remains as a major task for China in the future. At present, no country, the US included, is able to obstruct Beijing's island reclamation in the region.*

In face of the US harassment, Beijing should *deal with Washington tactfully* and *prepare for the worst. *This can convince the White House that China, despite its unwillingness, is not frightened to fight a war with the US in the region, and is determined to safeguard its national interests and dignity.

Beijing ought to carry out anti-harassment operations. *We should first track the US warships.* If they, instead of passing by, stop for further actions, it is necessary for us to launch electronic interventions, and even send out warships, lock them by fire-control radar and fly over the US vessels. 

Chinese should be aware that the US harassment is only a common challenge in China's rise. *We should regard it with calm and be confident of our government and troops.* It is certain that the Chinese government, ordering the land reclamation, is able and determined to safeguard the islands. *China is gradually recovering its justified rights in the South China Sea. *China has not emphasized the "12 nautical miles." It is the US that helps us to build and reinforce this concept. Then, it is fine for us to accept the "12 nautical miles" and we have no intention to accept 13 or more than 13 nautical miles.

@Martian2 , @Shotgunner51 , @terranMarine , @Jlaw , @xunzi , @Yizhi , @Kyle Sun , @AndrewJin , @cirr , @cnleio , @Chinese-Dragon , @tranquilium

Reactions: Like Like:
15


----------



## EAsian

Prepare for more harassment coming from US,they will keep trying to enter our territory sea if we don't do something serious to stop them.This is really a shame.too coward.


----------



## TaiShang

EAsian said:


> Prepare for more harassment coming from US,they will keep trying to enter our territory sea if we don't do something serious to stop them.This is really a shame.too coward.





*After the show, it's time for US destroyer to leave*
2015-10-27 17:38:43

According to Reuters and the Wall Street Journal, the US Navy sent the guided-missile destroyer USLassen within 12 nautical miles of islands built by China in the South China Sea. US officials claimed that the action is aimed at safeguarding the freedom of navigation and did not target China. The patrols could also be conducted around features that Vietnam and the Philippines have built up in the South China Sea. According to the US side, the action has been approved by President Barack Obama, but with no notification for China.

Washington hinted long ago that it would send ships within 12 nautical miles of China's islands, but it didn't say explicitly what it would do. The US said the action would last several hours. According to Western media, Chinese navy ships are closely watching the Lassen. The Pentagon is obviously provoking China. It is time to test the wisdom and determination of the Chinese people.

We should stay calm. If we feel disgraced and utter some furious words, it will only make the US achieve its goal of irritating us.

We should analyze the actual condition of the US harassment. It seems that the US only wants to display its presence as it didn't raise the imprudent demand that China stops island-building. It has no intention to launch a military clash with China. It is just the US' political show. The UN Convention of the Law of the Sea provides three categories. The first is islands, which are naturally formed, habitable areas above water at high tide, and are therefore entitled to 12 nautical miles of territorial waters and a 200 nautical mile exclusive economic zones (EEZs). The second is reefs that have portions above water at low tide, and are uninhabitable, which have territorial waters but no EEZs. Finally, completely submerged "low tide elevations" have no territorial waters. 

The islands and reefs in the Nansha Islands under the control of the Chinese mainland belong to the latter two categories. China did not elaborate whether it will expand its territorial seas after land construction. This is where the ambiguity of the international law. In addition, China hasn't announced its territorial baseline in the South China Sea, making the legal meaning of Sino-US contention in the South China Sea vague.

China and the US have no conflicting views over the international law. Instead, the two are competing with each other over the rules and orders in the South China Sea. Beijing's construction work in the area is completely legal, and there is nothing Washington can blame it for. Yet, from Washington's perspective, the geopolitical situation in the area will be changed following China's island reclamation. Beijing may seize the advantage to control the Nansha Islands and their adjacent seas. The US also conjectures that China will gain strategic pivots for power projection to the south in the future. Therefore, Washington, annoyed and anxious, has taken actions in order to balance Beijing's clout and to consolidate its dominance in the South China Sea.

It has to be noticed that China has already carried out construction work in the area. This is the concrete achievements Beijing has gained. Completing building the islands still remains as a major task for China in the future. At present, no country, the US included, is able to obstruct Beijing's island reclamation in the region.

In face of the US harassment, Beijing should deal with Washington tactfully and prepare for the worst. This can convince the White House that China, despite its unwillingness, is not frightened to fight a war with the US in the region, and is determined to safeguard its national interests and dignity.

Beijing ought to carry out anti-harassment operations. We should first track the US warships. If they, instead of passing by, stop for further actions, it is necessary for us to launch electronic interventions, and even send out warships, lock them by fire-control radar and fly over the US vessels. 

Chinese should be aware that the US harassment is only a common challenge in China's rise. We should regard it with calm and be confident of our government and troops. It is certain that the Chinese government, ordering the land reclamation, is able and determined to safeguard the islands. China is gradually recovering its justified rights in the South China Sea. China has not emphasized the "12 nautical miles." It is the US that helps us to build and reinforce this concept. Then, it is fine for us to accept the "12 nautical miles" and we have no intention to accept 13 or more than 13 nautical miles.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EAsian

TaiShang said:


> *After the show, it's time for US destroyer to leave*
> 2015-10-27 17:38:43
> 
> According to Reuters and the Wall Street Journal, the US Navy sent the guided-missile destroyer USLassen within 12 nautical miles of islands built by China in the South China Sea. US officials claimed that the action is aimed at safeguarding the freedom of navigation and did not target China. The patrols could also be conducted around features that Vietnam and the Philippines have built up in the South China Sea. According to the US side, the action has been approved by President Barack Obama, but with no notification for China.
> 
> Washington hinted long ago that it would send ships within 12 nautical miles of China's islands, but it didn't say explicitly what it would do. The US said the action would last several hours. According to Western media, Chinese navy ships are closely watching the Lassen. The Pentagon is obviously provoking China. It is time to test the wisdom and determination of the Chinese people.
> 
> We should stay calm. If we feel disgraced and utter some furious words, it will only make the US achieve its goal of irritating us.
> 
> We should analyze the actual condition of the US harassment. It seems that the US only wants to display its presence as it didn't raise the imprudent demand that China stops island-building. It has no intention to launch a military clash with China. It is just the US' political show. The UN Convention of the Law of the Sea provides three categories. The first is islands, which are naturally formed, habitable areas above water at high tide, and are therefore entitled to 12 nautical miles of territorial waters and a 200 nautical mile exclusive economic zones (EEZs). The second is reefs that have portions above water at low tide, and are uninhabitable, which have territorial waters but no EEZs. Finally, completely submerged "low tide elevations" have no territorial waters.
> 
> The islands and reefs in the Nansha Islands under the control of the Chinese mainland belong to the latter two categories. China did not elaborate whether it will expand its territorial seas after land construction. This is where the ambiguity of the international law. In addition, China hasn't announced its territorial baseline in the South China Sea, making the legal meaning of Sino-US contention in the South China Sea vague.
> 
> China and the US have no conflicting views over the international law. Instead, the two are competing with each other over the rules and orders in the South China Sea. Beijing's construction work in the area is completely legal, and there is nothing Washington can blame it for. Yet, from Washington's perspective, the geopolitical situation in the area will be changed following China's island reclamation. Beijing may seize the advantage to control the Nansha Islands and their adjacent seas. The US also conjectures that China will gain strategic pivots for power projection to the south in the future. Therefore, Washington, annoyed and anxious, has taken actions in order to balance Beijing's clout and to consolidate its dominance in the South China Sea.
> 
> It has to be noticed that China has already carried out construction work in the area. This is the concrete achievements Beijing has gained. Completing building the islands still remains as a major task for China in the future. At present, no country, the US included, is able to obstruct Beijing's island reclamation in the region.
> 
> In face of the US harassment, Beijing should deal with Washington tactfully and prepare for the worst. This can convince the White House that China, despite its unwillingness, is not frightened to fight a war with the US in the region, and is determined to safeguard its national interests and dignity.
> 
> Beijing ought to carry out anti-harassment operations. We should first track the US warships. If they, instead of passing by, stop for further actions, it is necessary for us to launch electronic interventions, and even send out warships, lock them by fire-control radar and fly over the US vessels.
> 
> Chinese should be aware that the US harassment is only a common challenge in China's rise. We should regard it with calm and be confident of our government and troops. It is certain that the Chinese government, ordering the land reclamation, is able and determined to safeguard the islands. China is gradually recovering its justified rights in the South China Sea. China has not emphasized the "12 nautical miles." It is the US that helps us to build and reinforce this concept. Then, it is fine for us to accept the "12 nautical miles" and we have no intention to accept 13 or more than 13 nautical miles.


Of course they left,What they have said all the time is they want to pass there freely,not stay there.They will come again,mark my words.


----------



## Aepsilons

Dungeness said:


> Are you working in official capacity on PDF? You sounded like a member of JSDF in active duty. Just curious.






What ever do you mean?


----------



## 21 Dec 2012

TaiShang said:


> We should stay calm.


Buddhapalm, ironically, will surely disagree.


----------



## TaiShang

EAsian said:


> Of course they left,What they have said all the time is they want to pass there freely,not stay there.They will come again,mark my words.



Nice, then. They passed. So, until next time, on board of island development train!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EAsian

TaiShang said:


> Nice, then. They passed. So, until next time, on board of island development train!


It's not nice that someone pass your territory sea freely and without your permission.If that is nice and fine,then that is equal to say there isn't a territory sea belong to China,Which is exactly the point of USA.


----------



## TaiShang

EAsian said:


> It's not nice that someone pass your territory sea freelyand without your permission.If that is nice and fine,then that is equal to say there isn't a territory sea belong to China,Which is exactly the point of USA.



I agree, it is not nice, if one considers the immediate facts, rather than the historical context.

As I said, differences in capabilities. What China needs to do is to build capabilities without hindrance. Responding to provocation would likely affect the build-up efforts.

What we need to have is patience and stay result-oriented.

When capabilities are there and enough, deterrence will come by default.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## gambit

EAsian said:


> It's not nice that someone pass your territory sea freely and without your permission.If that is nice and fine,then that is equal to say there isn't a territory sea belong to China,Which is exactly the point of USA.


And the point of the rest of the world.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## EAsian

TaiShang said:


> I agree, it is not nice, if one considers the immediate facts, rather than the historical context.
> 
> As I said, differences in capabilities. What China needs to do is to build capabilities without hindrance. Responding to provocation would likely affect the build-u efforts.
> 
> What we need to have is patience and stay result-oriented.
> 
> When capabilities are there and enough, deterrence will come by default.


As I have said,If one likes to pretend to be a coward then he will eventually becomes a coward.We don't need to build some buildings in the island to stop their intrusion,we only need some courage and a few ships that dares to surround and knock them down.
现在还有大棋党？


----------



## cnleio

gambit said:


> And the point of the rest of the world.


Point of the rest of the world, is Chinese controlled these islands and they r building more lands, USS just walk around and not stop China builindg in SCS.

There'r two things the all world can see right now:
1. U.S not stop Russia bombing in Syria
2. U.S not stop China building in SCS

Just walk/fly around ... near it. If U.S can't stop above, Russia/China will achieve our purposes.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## TaiShang

gambit said:


> And the point of the rest of the world.



Of your little world. 



EAsian said:


> As I have said,If one likes to pretend to be a coward then he will eventually becomes a coward.We don't need to build some buildings in the island to stop their intrusion,we only need some courage and a few ships that dares to surround and knock them down.
> 现在还有大棋党？



I believe this is being taken out of proportion. Nowhere being a great game. The great game is being played on economic and political fronts, which is less visible. This is, at best, a minor game. 

By the way, building up capability is important, including infrastructure, because courage and a big heart alone won't win you a war. 

The point is to harm the other side with the least possible harm on your own people. This job is done by machines, logistics and infra.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viva_Viet

Next time, US should come back with some big fishing ships sailing aroud CNese isls


----------



## EAsian

TaiShang said:


> Of your little world.
> 
> 
> 
> I believe this is being taken out of proportion. Nowhere being a great game. The great game is being played on economic and political fronts, which is less visible. This is, at best, a minor game.
> 
> By the way, building up capability is important, including infrastructure, because courage and a big heart alone won't win you a war.
> 
> The point is to harm the other side with the least possible harm on your own people. This job is done by machines, logistics and infra.


We don't need to win the war because there is and will be no direct war between China and US.Building some architectrue won 't change anything,you still need some ships to surround and knock them down.This is just an exuse.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Sanchez

China should speed up various constructions according to the plans. Maybe we should add laser guns on each reef to burn the radars or other parts of intruding US ships. Future clash or even fights around the reefs might not be avoidable.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## TaiShang

EAsian said:


> We don't need to win the war because there is and will be no direct war between China and US.Building some architectrue won 't change anything,you still need some ships to surround and knock them down.This is just an exuse.



On the build up of ships and other assets, there are members who are more knowledgeable to respond.

@cirr @cnleio @Martian2



Viva_Viet said:


> Next time, US should come back with some big fishing ships sailing aroud CNese isls

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viva_Viet

TaiShang said:


>


Does CN have the guts to ram big US fishing ships ??? No, you will get the world sanction

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## surya kiran

Had posted this in the jokes section, but now it seems apt here 









EAsian said:


> It's not nice that someone pass your territory sea freely and without your permission.If that is nice and fine,then that is equal to say there isn't a territory sea belong to China,Which is exactly the point of USA.



I think, the point being made is that the rule of 12 NM does not apply to man made reefs. I may be wrong, but, I think that's the point.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Nilgiri

Thats a hillarious cartoon hahaha


----------



## EAsian

surya kiran said:


> Had posted this in the jokes section, but now it seems apt here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think, the point being made is that the rule of 12 NM does not apply to man made reefs. I may be wrong, but, I think that's the point.


We have just enlarged those islands.12NM territory sea is exactly our point.


----------



## dichoi

USN warships will come again and again.


----------



## dichoi

US warship will come regularly.


----------



## gambit

surya kiran said:


> I think, the point being made is that the rule of 12 NM does not apply to man made reefs. I may be wrong, but, I think that's the point.


It does not.



TaiShang said:


> Of your little world.


Not at all. All Asia want the SCS to be free of China's control. We are there to guarantee it. China will not have the SCS.



cnleio said:


> Point of the rest of the world, is Chinese controlled these islands and they r building more lands, USS just walk around and not stop China builindg in SCS.
> 
> There'r two things the all world can see right now:
> 1. U.S not stop Russia bombing in Syria
> 2. U.S not stop China building in SCS
> 
> Just walk/fly around ... near it. If U.S can't stop above, Russia/China will achieve our purposes.


China can control the islands but that is the end of it. The 12 nm territorial limit do not apply.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cnleio

gambit said:


> China can control the islands but that is the end of it. The 12 nm territorial limit do not apply.


No ... the end depends on how long USS stay there or how often USS patrolling there, not like last time only once B-52 flying close to the ADIZ is useless. Again like u said, China will continue building artificial islands.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## gambit

cnleio said:


> No ... the end depends on how long USS stay there or how often USS patrolling there, not like last time only once B-52 flying close to the ADIZ is useless. Again like u said, China will continue building artificial islands.


So what you are saying is that if the USN is not there, then China will bully other countries into submission, forcing them to go around the 12 nm limit per island. But if the USN is there, China will do nothing.

Got it...Now we know what China will and will not do...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

Best news of the day!


----------



## cnleio

gambit said:


> So what you are saying is that if the USN is not there, then China will bully other countries into submission, forcing them to go around the 12 nm limit per island. But if the USN is there, China will do nothing.
> 
> Got it...Now we know what China will and will not do...


HEHE ... such question should ask Vietnam, China dosen't do nothing PLAN ships near the Lassen, do u know how long USN will stay there in SCS ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## monitor




----------



## jhungary

Genesis said:


> As I said before, the US not doing any military activities is the defacto recognition of Chinese sovereignty. As transit is allowed under international law. If the US started to fire a missile, even if at nothing, or a few rounds, then it be a different story. That didn't take place.



The different is China is not disputing the sovereignty of Aleutian Island. While the Sea in SCS is disputed. Also, the Chinese transit thru Aleutian strait through Innocent Passage, while the US transit thru planned bearing.

Under International Law of the Sea, Innocent Passage would be granted if a country transit thru another country territorial water given the bearing is for a simple transfer. For example. If one want to pass thru Panama Canal (Which is international water *DOES NOT* belong to Panama, as it was neutralized international waterway), one have to pass thru Panama Territorial water to be able to access the canal, thus an innocent bearing is granted.

International Waterway works in 3 levels.

Strait - Such as Aleutian/Bearing Strait
Canal - Such as Suez Canal and Panama Canal
Rivers - Some River also designated International waterway

International Waterways legal definition of International Waterways

What Chinese did in Aleutian is completely different than what the US ship did in SCS, the Chinese have the international right to access the Aleutian strait, which mean even if they are to enter US territorial water without notified and granted permission of the American, as long as they are to transit from Aleutian to the other end and enter Russia Water, US cannot do anything to them, if US fire on Chinese ship entering Aleutian Water under innocent passage, US would have committed war crime.

On the other hand, there are no restriction on SCS as they are not Canal nor Strait that was internationalized waterway, the claim, is that they are sole territorial water of China, but by allowing the US ship to transit under constant bearing, the Chinese could be seen as relief on duty of care to their alleged border. That is not the same as entering someone else water for innocent passage to the canal or strait. It was a challenge to disputed territories.


----------



## ahtan_china

gambit said:


> So what you are saying is that if the USN is not there, then China will bully other countries into submission, forcing them to go around the 12 nm limit per island. But if the USN is there, China will do nothing.
> 
> Got it...Now we know what China will and will not do...


It is pity that the world police has not ability to stop China illegal building in SCS


----------



## pher

gambit said:


> So what you are saying is that if the USN is not there, then China will bully other countries into submission, forcing them to go around the 12 nm limit per island. But if the USN is there, China will do nothing.
> 
> Got it...Now we know what China will and will not do...


wow, what a big mouth. this was the last time we played your P8 and scared the shit out of its crew, then your government cried like a baby and kept protested against China.










sending an old junk ship pass through an unfinished man-made island made you people high? how pathetic the so-called superpower US has become? welcome to try again next time when we fully militarise those islands. and remember, next time you should at least stay there a couple of hours ranther than just sail by to show your strengh, if you dare to.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Jlaw

If the US warship remain inside the 12 nm, China has to provide warning. IF they do not leave, China has no choice but to attack the warship.
If this leads to a war, so be it. US will stand to lose the most with a war in China's backyard.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Tom99

dichoi said:


> US warship will come regularly.



Good, they can witness the Chinese building prowess as China continue to develop their islands in SCS.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## gambit

Tom99 said:


> Good, they can witness the Chinese building prowess as China continue to develop their islands in SCS.


Yes, we will be impressed. But that will be the extent of China's effects on US. The SCS will be available for *ALL* to sail, and there is not a damn thing China can do about it.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## gambit

pher said:


> wow, what a big mouth. this was the last time we played your P8 and scared the shit out of its crew, then your government cried like a baby and kept protested against China.
> 
> View attachment 267583
> View attachment 267587
> 
> 
> sending an old junk ship pass through an unfinished man-made island made you people high? how pathetic the so-called superpower US has become? welcome to try again next time when we fully militarise those islands. and remember, next time you should at least stay there a couple of hours ranther than just sail by to show your strengh, if you dare to.


That is good. Finally your pilots know how to maneuver around other flying bodies. We all know what happened to the last time, do we ? 



ahtan_china said:


> It is pity that the world police has not ability to stop China illegal building in SCS


We have the ability. We just chose not to. The PLAN is not even halfway to contest our will should we chose to exercise the full measure of what the USN can do. Those little man-made islands exists because of our restraints, not of our lack of ability to destroy them.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## pher

gambit said:


> That is good. Finally your pilots know how to maneuver around other flying bodies. We all know what happened to the last time, do we ?


yes, just because last time our recon technology leaped frog by 20 years, so we would be happy to do it again and again . if your govenment is ok with this, why it become so agitated and kept protesting aginst us？
we all know that once canadians set fire on white house, but I will not be stupid like you to assum that the same result will happen again and again.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viva_Viet

gambit said:


> So what you are saying is that if the USN is not there, then China will bully other countries into submission, forcing them to go around the 12 nm limit per island. But if the USN is there, China will do nothing.
> 
> Got it...Now we know what China will and will not do...


Man, send some big US fishing vessels there to have more fun


----------



## Jlaw

cnleio said:


> If we don't build artificial islands in there, might took by foreign,that's the courage ... and u might forget SCS sea battle, that's also courage. Another courage is to setup nine-dashed line & PLAN patrolling inside it ... that's why other nations complaining China in SCS.
> View attachment 267560
> 
> 
> So if China lack courage, there won't be any island which thousand miles far away from HaiNan in SCS belong to China. That's Chinese Courage !


I guess what EastAsia is asking is that why does China need to justify building military or civilian installation within its territories?

If China want to build a missile defense why don't they just do it instead of justifying to the world "why" they are doing it and put in a qualifier such as "not targeted at any specific country." 

I think he asked a valid question.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Tom99

gambit said:


> Yes, we will be impressed. But that will be the extent of China's effects on US. The SCS will be available for *ALL* to sail, and there is not a damn thing China can do about it.



As China have said many times, the Freedom of Navigation was never threaten by any islands on SCS. And the American's display this time will have no effect whatsoever on China's continuation of developing of their islands.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ahtan_china

gambit said:


> That is good. Finally your pilots know how to maneuver around other flying bodies. We all know what happened to the last time, do we ?
> 
> 
> We have the ability. We just chose not to. The PLAN is not even halfway to contest our will should we chose to exercise the full measure of what the USN can do. Those little man-made islands exists because of our restraints, not of our lack of ability to destroy them.


It is really?
The *Yinhe incident* (Chinese: 银河号事件) was a claim made in 1993 by the United States government alleging that the China-based regular container ship _Yinhe_ (银河, "Milky Way") was carrying materials for chemical weapons to Iran. 
It showed the ability of USA as world police.
Now do you really think this ability is still available for USA to destroy the current illegal building by China?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Place Of Space

Not bad, perfect opportunity of vastly boosting navy.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## pher

Viet said:


> Best news of the day!


actually it is. to pacify our neighbours, we just announced that our man-made islands were for peaceful purpose. now we have every excuse to arm them to the teeth for they were under potential threat.
besides, we never established the connection between 12 miles and man-made islands before, now since US kept reminding us of this relationship, we will consider to implement that in the near future.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Royal Kathiyawadi

Look at these Traitors man @mike2000 is back @gambit @anon45 @F-22Raptor 

They can not Stop us guys just don't loooooose our Cool


----------



## Jlaw

EAsian said:


> We don't need to win the war because there is and will be no direct war between China and US.Building some architectrue won 't change anything,you still need some ships to surround and knock them down.This is just an exuse.


I think the high ranking military officials are too corrupted to do anything.


----------



## dichoi

Jlaw said:


> I think the high ranking military officials are too corrupted to do anything.



They got enough money from reclamation works, so they take a relax now and tried to send dirty money to US for their relatives there.


----------



## EAsian

Jlaw said:


> I think the high ranking military officials are too corrupted to do anything.


It is never about corruption,bro.It's about the courage and cultrue.Russians are even more corrupt than us,yet they still dare to invade Ukraine and deploy their army to Syria which is tens of tousands miles away from russia.Corruption and traitors are merely an execuse to cover those cowards who hold the real power.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Jlaw

EAsian said:


> It is never about corruption,bro.It's* about the courage and cultrue*.Russians are even more corrupt than us,yet they still dare to invade Ukraine and deploy their army to Syria which is tens of tousands miles away from russia.


And that too bro. I guess most mainland Chinese do not understand. 

This was a test by US to show its allies they are still the boss. China by not sending warships to intervene the US warship sends a wrong signal to the Viets, Pinoys and Japanese.


----------



## Gijoe

China sending warship to Hawaii, and Alaska. US is in his panic now.


----------



## Nan Yang

gambit said:


> So what you are saying is that if the USN is not there, then China will bully other countries into submission, forcing them to go around the 12 nm limit per island. But if the USN is there, China will do nothing.
> 
> Got it...Now we know what China will and will not do...


China IS doing something.
It is building and enlarging these island and there is nothing US can do about it either.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Aepsilons

EAsian said:


> It is never about corruption,bro.It's about the courage and cultrue.Russians are even more corrupt than us,yet they still dare to invade Ukraine and deploy their army to Syria which is tens of tousands miles away from russia.Corruption and traitors are merely an execuse to cover those cowards who hold the real power.



Russians ever were dating and proactive that is their history their trait. They every were interventional in Eurasia. It is in their blood. Chinese are different ; Chinese are gradualists and not the type to initiate proactive aggression. History bears witness to that. China is usually on the receiving end of aggression not the initiators I suppose. 

Chinese are builders not destroyers. That I admire about Chinese.


----------



## TaiShang

There is no damn thing you can force China to stop its peace-oriented island genesis program 

US does tactic.

We do strategy.

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Beast

Jlaw said:


> And that too bro. I guess most mainland Chinese do not understand.
> 
> This was a test by US to show its allies they are still the boss. China by not sending warships to intervene the US warship sends a wrong signal to the Viets, Pinoys and Japanese.



I agree but China response may come in months. We do not expect China to immediately response. Only Troll will demand immediate response like next day to prove something.


----------



## bobsm

Two Chinese warships chase off US warship.

Chinese Defense Ministry: Two Chinese Navy vessels have warned US warship USS Lassen as it sails in South China Sea.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Jlaw

TaiShang said:


> There is no damn thing you can force China to stop its peace-oriented island genesis program
> 
> US does tactic.
> 
> We do strategy.


Bro I understand the difference. US cannot stop China from building anything on the artificial islands. This incident was to reinforce one thing by the US:

That they are still the boss even in the SCS and at the ssame time send wrong signals to Viets, Pn, Jap that they can always count on US and not be afraid of China. It's a psychological that China should have acted more swiftly and bolder.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## TaiShang

Nan Yang said:


> China IS doing something.
> It is building and enlarging these island and there is nothing US can do about it either.



Apparently, that does not count , lol.



bobsm said:


> Two Chinese warships chase off US warship.
> 
> Chinese Defense Ministry: Two Chinese Navy vessels have warned US warship USS Lassen as it sails in South China Sea.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EAsian

bobsm said:


> Two Chinese warships chase off US warship.
> 
> Chinese Defense Ministry: Two Chinese Navy vessels have warned US warship USS Lassen as it sails in South China Sea.


That is good.But I am afraid it is not good enough to stop US from coming to our territory waters.I hope next time we will do better and that is the only thing I can hope for.


----------



## kawaraj

Jlaw said:


> And that too bro. I guess most mainland Chinese do not understand.
> 
> This was a test by US to show its allies they are still the boss. China by not sending warships to intervene the US warship sends a wrong signal to the Viets, Pinoys and Japanese.



Exactly.

Thanks to PLAN's soft touch, agreed by many of your PDF member, Japan will just send a similiar fleet to your disputed South China islands in the near future.

China is a mature country, you ought to know the consequences. Sailing through a weak nation's sea territory is not uncommon in this world.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EAsian

kawaraj said:


> Exactly.
> 
> Thanks to PLAN's soft touch, agreed by many of your PDF member, Japan will just send a similiar fleet to your disputed South China islands in the near future.
> 
> China is a mature country, you ought to know the consequences. Sailing through a weak nation's sea territory is not uncommon in this world.


I heard that Philippine will join next time too.


----------



## bobsm

EAsian said:


> That is good.But I am afraid it is not good enough to stop US from coming to our territory waters.I hope next time we will do better and that is the only thing I can hope for.



It doesn't matter. As long as the islands are fully developed and fortified, China's reach has extended.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## kawaraj

EAsian said:


> I heard that Philippine will join next time too.



Actually I am surpised that your top officials did not come up with any thing that prevented this from happenning. Beyond cowardness, It also shows the inability and lack of tactics of your military decision maker.

Maybe the world has overestimated the strength of Chinese military machines.


----------



## EAsian

bobsm said:


> It doesn't matter. As long as the islands are fully developed and fortified, China's reach has extended.


What is the meaning to develop those islands if you can‘t protect territorial seas around them?Can we dig out some gold or oil from those island？Totally meaningless.


----------



## Yizhi

.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EAsian

kawaraj said:


> Actually I am surpised that your top officials did not come up with any thing that prevented this from happenning. Beyond cowardness, It also shows the inability and lack of tactics of your military decision maker.
> 
> Maybe the world has overestimated the strength of Chinese military machines.


It depends which aspect you look at.For me,A military force that a country is afraid to use is equal to no military force.


----------



## TaiShang

Jlaw said:


> Bro I understand the difference. US cannot stop China from building anything on the artificial islands. This incident was to reinforce one thing by the US:
> 
> That they are still the boss even in the SCS and at the ssame time send wrong signals to Viets, Pn, Jap that they can always count on US and not be afraid of China. It's a psychological that China should have acted more swiftly and bolder.



I would say let them be the boss. In fact China asks them to be the boss in the Middle East. China still needs a some 5-year of favorable international situation.

So long as China manages this duration without much disturbance, I am content with the method employed. 

There is time to ask like Russia did; but, when sailing a ship (tailed by China's warships) across waters near China's islands, the US did not harm China's interests unlike what NATO did with Russia's.

My argument is therefore such that the response is right and enough.

JP, VN, and PH already seem to be put their faith on the US. If their egos are to be flighty with this incident, so be it. If I am one of these, I would be disappointed so long as the US fails to make China stop island construction.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cnleio

EAsian said:


> That is good.But I am afraid it is not good enough to stop US from coming to our territory waters.I hope next time we will do better and that is the only thing I can hope for.


Whatever islands still under Chinese control and constructs continue ... that's enough ! I think this case will speed up our artificial islands and Navy building ... maybe next year China could send a PLAN tast fleet to dock inside finished island.

Anyways now the first important thing is to finish the building, and thanks USN China will send more ships to SCS water to protect our island building.

"USN into 12 sea miles of artificial island" & "PLAN send more ships to artificial island", there'r two sides of this case ... so should thanks USN.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## kawaraj

EAsian said:


> It depends which aspect you look at.For me,A military force that a country is afraid to use is equal to no military force.



OFFENSIVE is the best DEFENCE TACTIC.

Your weak PLAN leaders will never understand the modern military thoery. Maybe they are counting on the Great Wall to protect your people's interest.


----------



## EAsian

cnleio said:


> Whatever islands still under Chinese control and constructs continue ... that's enough ! I think this case will speed up our artificial islands and Navy building ... maybe next year China could send a PLAN tast fleet to dock inside finished island.
> 
> Anyways now the first important thing is to finish the building, and thanks USN China will send more ships to SCS water.


Look,we don't need a US intrusion to boost our construction in those islands.It's a ridiculous exuse.One don't need to be invaded to realize how important military power isThe point is always about the Territorial seas.And that is always the US want to deny about.Constructions in those islands don't have much to do with the problem.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## bobsm

EAsian said:


> What is the meaning to develop those islands if you can protect territorial seas around them?Can we dig out some gold or oil from those island？



Of course, any unauthorized or undeclared ships within the 12 miles will still be warned or chased off. But the main point of developing those islands is to extend naval and air power further into South China Sea. In case of conflict, Chinese naval and air assets can be deployed quickly and efficiently, which makes protecting territorial waters easier.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cnleio

EAsian said:


> Look,we don't need a US intrusion to boost our construction in those islands.It's a ridiculous exuse.The point is always about the Territorial seas.And that is always the US want to deny about.Constructions in those islands don't have much to do with the problem.


U r wrong, BeiJing & CCP need such signal from U.S side ... China need more aircrafts/ships in there to protect artificial islands, after this case China building will speed up.

Don't cry like a girl, coz nothing changes to these artificial islands, Chinese still doing their works in there.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EAsian

bobsm said:


> Of course, any unauthorized or undeclared ships within the 12 miles will still be warned or chased off. But the main point of developing those islands is to extend naval and air power further into South China Sea. In case of conflict, Chinese naval and air assets can be deployed quickly and efficiently, which makes protecting territorial waters easier.


But we don't need those construction to encounter the intrusion which happened today.We just need some ships to ram over the US destroyer.Not like we will launch missiles to shot the destroyer.If you can't protect the territorial seas now.You can't protect them in the future too,no matter how good you have built in those islands.



kawaraj said:


> OFFENSIVE is the best DEFENCE TACTIC.
> 
> Your weak PLAN leaders will never understand the modern military thoery. Maybe they are counting on the Great Wall to protect your people's interest.


It's not the problem with theories,It's about balls.



cnleio said:


> U r wrong, BeiJing & CCP need such signal from U.S side ... China need more aircrafts/ships in there to protect artificial islands, after this case China building will speed up.


Then,Too passive I must say.It won't work well.


----------



## Tom99

cnleio said:


> Whatever islands still under Chinese control and constructs continue ... that's enough ! I think this case will speed up our artificial islands and Navy building ... maybe next year China could send a PLAN tast fleet to dock inside finished island.
> 
> Anyways now the first important thing is to finish the building, and thanks USN China will send more ships to SCS water to protect our island building.



Yupe. the pragmatic leaders in China understand this; that this and future American display will not in anyway alter the reality of these islands, China will continue to build and have sovereignty of these islands.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cnleio

cnleio said:


> Then,Too passive I must say.It won't work well.


Cry like a girl, and there nothing change yet !


----------



## EAsian

cnleio said:


> Cry like a girl, and there nothing change yet !


Cry?nope thanks.More intrusion will happen,Japanese and pinoys will follow uncle Sam.And you can still build in the islands while they can still across China's territorial waters like in their home.


----------



## cnleio

EAsian said:


> Cry?nope thanks.More intrusion will happen,Japanese and pinoys will follow uncle Sam.And you can still build in the islands while they can still across China's territorial waters like in their home.


LOL ... r u 100% sure ? That need ask China Coast Guard whether crash their boats in SCS like before.


----------



## Place Of Space

jhungary said:


> The different is China is not disputing the sovereignty of Aleutian Island. While the Sea in SCS is disputed. Also, the Chinese transit thru Aleutian strait through Innocent Passage, while the US transit thru planned bearing.
> 
> Under International Law of the Sea, Innocent Passage would be granted if a country transit thru another country territorial water given the bearing is for a simple transfer. For example. If one want to pass thru Panama Canal (Which is international water *DOES NOT* belong to Panama, as it was neutralized international waterway), one have to pass thru Panama Territorial water to be able to access the canal, thus an innocent bearing is granted.
> 
> International Waterway works in 3 levels.
> 
> Strait - Such as Aleutian/Bearing Strait
> Canal - Such as Suez Canal and Panama Canal
> Rivers - Some River also designated International waterway
> 
> International Waterways legal definition of International Waterways
> 
> What Chinese did in Aleutian is completely different than what the US ship did in SCS, the Chinese have the international right to access the Aleutian strait, which mean even if they are to enter US territorial water without notified and granted permission of the American, as long as they are to transit from Aleutian to the other end and enter Russia Water, US cannot do anything to them, if US fire on Chinese ship entering Aleutian Water under innocent passage, US would have committed war crime.
> 
> On the other hand, there are no restriction on SCS as they are not Canal nor Strait that was internationalized waterway, the claim, is that they are sole territorial water of China, but by allowing the US ship to transit under constant bearing, the Chinese could be seen as relief on duty of care to their alleged border. That is not the same as entering someone else water for innocent passage to the canal or strait. It was a challenge to disputed territories.



“It was a challenge to disputed territories.”
I agree to this point, exactly it's a challenge to Chinese territory. Unfortunately, US can not provide any actual solutions or proposals with this issue by sending warship.


----------



## EAsian

cnleio said:


> LOL ... r u 100% sure ?


Well,if China don't take serious counterattack,then I am sure.


----------



## cnleio

EAsian said:


> Well,if China don't take serious counterattack,then I am sure.


See my above post ... China Coast Guard welcome old friends coming .


----------



## EAsian

cnleio said:


> See my above post ... China Coast Guard welcome old friends coming .


Haven't I said that's not good enough?US will patrol our territorial waters again,mark my words.


----------



## anon45

21stCentury said:


> It's a reality check.


? The reality is relations between Vietnam and the US are improving, and there is a thriving Vietnamese diaspora in the US today. 

Remembering history is a good thing, but being chained to historical grudges is not.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Jlaw

EAsian said:


> Look,we don't need a US intrusion to boost our construction in those islands.It's a ridiculous exuse.One don't need to be invaded to realize how important military power isThe point is always about the Territorial seas.And that is always the US want to deny about.Constructions in those islands don't have much to do with the problem.


Didn't Sun Tzu said "In times of peace prepare for war". It's peace time now. I think China's military leaders should be building at break neck speed now. During war time you will not have the time to build and test out equipment.

It is true. I think only Qing emperor Qianlong knew the importance of buffer zones.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## anon45

U.S. sees more frequent patrols in South China Sea -defense official

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Jlaw

cnleio said:


> Cry like a girl, and there nothing change yet !


It's not about stopping Chinese building in this case. It's a psychological play.


----------



## Cossack25A1

kawaraj said:


> Actually I am surpised that your top officials did not come up with any thing that prevented this from happenning. Beyond cowardness, It also shows the inability and lack of tactics of your military decision maker.
> 
> Maybe the world has overestimated the strength of Chinese military machines.



That is a possibility, but then they may be applying Sun Tzu's "rules".


----------



## EAsian

I don't know why some Chinese think that all we need to do is keeping construction in those islands,then US will stop their patrol in our territorial waters and the problem will be somehow magically solved.It is really stupid as hell.


----------



## Sanchez

kawaraj said:


> Exactly.
> 
> Thanks to PLAN's soft touch, agreed by many of your PDF member, Japan will just send a similiar fleet to your disputed South China islands in the near future.
> 
> China is a mature country, you ought to know the consequences. Sailing through a weak nation's sea territory is not uncommon in this world.





kawaraj said:


> Actually I am surpised that your top officials did not come up with any thing that prevented this from happenning. Beyond cowardness, It also shows the inability and lack of tactics of your military decision maker.
> 
> Maybe the world has overestimated the strength of Chinese military machines.



That's what US wants the underdogs to feel.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## 21stCentury

EAsian said:


> I don't know why some Chinese think that all we need to do is keep constructiong in those islands,then US will stop their patrol in our territorial waters and the problem will be somehow magically solved.It is really stupid as hell.



Indeed it is really stupid to think building these massive artificial islands is for the purpose of 'stopping US patrolling in the SCS lol. The US was patrolling here since WWII with impunity, since before the Asia Pivot, but now they do it with China's physical presence there. The US can keep patrolling like they've done for decades, but now with these permanent islands it is reminder that China is here to stay.

The great thing about these islands is that they are multi-functional. They are fully capable of being military bases, supply/refuel stations and also great for surveillance. Recall that these islands did not exist 2 years ago, and now they are the by far the largest and will be the most functional islands in the SCS.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Sanchez

EAsian said:


> I don't know why some Chinese think that all we need to do is keep constructiong in those islands,then US will stop their patrol in our territorial waters and the problem will be somehow magically solved.It is really stupid as hell.



We must be sure to hurt them bad when we hit back.



EAsian said:


> Haven't I said that's not good enough?US will patrol our territorial waters again,mark my words.


 You must be too young or being a female.


----------



## EAsian

21stCentury said:


> Indeed it is really stupid to think building these massive artificial islands is for the purpose of 'stopping US patrolling in the SCS lol. The US was patrolling here since WWII with impunity, since before the Asia Pivot, but now they do it with China's physical presence there. The US can keep patrolling like they've done for decades, but now with these permanent islands it is reminder that China is here to stay.
> 
> The great thing about these islands is that they are multi-functional. They are fully capable of being military bases, supply/refuel stations and also great for surveillance. Recall that these islands did not exist 2 years ago, and now they are the by far the largest and will be the most functional islands in the SCS.


But you see，The problem is still there.Do China accept that US can patrol in our territorial waters？What you have said doesn't have much thing to do with the problem which discussed in this thread.
I haven't said the constraction is of no use.It is useful but not gonna stop USA somehow magically.



Sanchez said:


> We must be sure to hurt them bad when we hit back.
> 
> 
> You must be too young or being a female.


Instead of talking about my age and gender.I think you should concerntrate in the problem that discussed here.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## pher

bobsm said:


> Two Chinese warships chase off US warship.
> 
> Chinese Defense Ministry: Two Chinese Navy vessels have warned US warship USS Lassen as it sails in South China Sea.


haha, so the mighty US navy ran off like a scared rabbit in the sea, what a shame !!! why not wait a few miniuts more for our ramming game?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zsari

jhungary said:


> LOL..........You have to be stupid to believe something like this.
> 
> 
> 
> Whoever wrote the aforementioned article know basically nothing about International law at sea.
> 
> For argument sake, let's say SCS is Chinese EEZ.
> 
> Exclusive Economic Zone is basically an extent of International Water with Economic Right to the EEZ owner. The transit and activities of foreign nation are treated as if they were in international water. Unless US Spy ship or warship stop at Chinese EEZ and started fishing, China have no right to dispute the rights of other from transiting it's EEZ. Wasn't the term "Exclusion *Economic* Zone" already a bit self explanatory?
> 
> Territorial water ended at 12 nautical mile, EEZ only give the host country right for* ECONOMIC* activities, military activities are not limited in EEZ.
> 
> And then there are UK and US breaking a bond over SCS is simply stupid. US-UK bond built on the threat of Soviet union and currently Russia. UK is not a claimant nor party of interest in SCS. Even US gone to war with China over SCS would have nothing to do with British Government, maybe the UK will lease Diego Garcia to the US for combat operation, that's about it. The same reason why the Brits was absent from Vietnam War.......
> 
> This article is too jokish to actually believe it was real...


 
There is a difference between transiting and conducting military operation while calling it navigation. The current rule was established by maritime powers that serve to facilitate their operation in other countries near shore. It is thus quiet natural for China to seek to change such rule that would serve to protect the security of continental powers instead.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## EAsian

UK is still a royal puppet to the US.China has no political influence over UK.


----------



## Viet

pher said:


> actually it is. to *pacify *our neighbours, we just announced that our man-made islands were for peaceful purpose. now we have every excuse to arm them to the teeth for they were under potential threat.
> besides, we never established the connection between 12 miles and man-made islands before, now since US kept reminding us of this relationship, we will consider to implement that in the near future.


do what you like, while we do what we like. don´t bother us with your "pacify" bullshit.
expect the US to do more aggressive moves in the times to come.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## monitor

> PROOF OF CHINA SOVEREIGNTY OVER THE ISLES & REEFS OF SOUTH CHINA SEA
> ==========================
> 
> 1. The United Kingdom of Great Britain and the Northern Island
> 
> a) China Sea Pilot compiled and printed by the Hydrography Department of the Royal Navy of the United Kingdom in 1912 has accounts of the activities of the Chinese people on the Nansha Islands in a number of places.
> 
> b) The Far Eastern Economic Review (Hong Kong) carried an article on Dec. 31 of 1973 which quotes the British High Commissioner to Singapore as having said in 1970: "Spratly Island (Nanwei Island in Chinese) was a Chinese dependency, part of Kwangtung Province… and was returned to China after the war. We can not find any indication of its having been acquired by any other country and so can only conclude it is still held by communist China."
> 
> 2. France
> 
> a) Le Monde Colonial Illustre mentioned the Nansha Islands in its September 1933 issue. According to that issue, when a French gunboat named Malicieuse surveyed the Nanwei Island of the Nansha Islands in 1930, they saw three Chinese on the island and when France invaded nine of the Nansha Islands by force in April 1933, they found all the people on the islands were Chinese, with 7 Chinese on the Nanzi Reef, 5 on the Zhongye Island, 4 on the Nanwei Island, thatched houses, water wells and holy statues left by Chinese on the Nanyue Island and a signboard with Chinese characters marking a grain storage on the Taiping Island.
> 
> b) Atlas International Larousse published in 1965 in France marks the Xisha, Nansha and Dongsha Islands by their Chinese names and gives clear indication of their ownership as China in brackets.
> 
> 3) Japan
> 
> a) Yearbook of New China published in Japan in 1966 describes the coastline of China as 11 thousand kilometers long from Liaodong Peninsula in the north to the Nansha Islands in the south, or 20 thousand kilometers if including the coastlines of all the islands along its coast;
> 
> b) Yearbook of the World published in Japan in 1972 says that Chinese territory includes not only the mainland, but also Hainan Island, Taiwan, Penghu Islands as well as the Dongsha, Xisha, Zhongsha and Nansha Islands on the South China Sea.
> 
> 4. The United States
> 
> a) Columbia Lippincott World Toponymic Dictionary published in the United States in 1961 states that the Nansha Islands on the South China Sea are part of Guangdong Province and belong to China.
> 
> b) The Worldmark Encyclopaedia of the Nations published in the United States in 1963 says that the islands of the People's Republic extend southward to include those isles and coral reefs on the South China Sea at the north latitude 4°.
> 
> c) World Administrative Divisions Encyclopaedia published in 1971 says that the People's Republic has a number of archipelagoes, including Hainan Island near the South China Sea, which is the largest, and a few others on the South China Sea extending to as far as the north latitude 4°, such as the Dongsha, Xisha, Zhongsha and Nansha Islands.
> 
> 5. Viet Nam
> 
> a) Vice Foreign Minister Dung Van Khiem of the Democratic Republic of Viet Nam received Mr. Li Zhimin, charge d'affaires ad interim of the Chinese Embassy in Viet Nam and told him that "according to Vietnamese data, the Xisha and Nansha Islands are historically part of Chinese territory." Mr. Le Doc, Acting Director of the Asian Department of the Vietnamese Foreign Ministry, who was present then, added that "judging from history, these islands were already part of China at the time of the Song Dynasty."
> 
> b) Nhan Dan of Viet Nam reported in great detail on September 6, 1958 the Chinese Government's Declaration of September 4, 1958 that the breadth of the territorial sea of the People's Republic of China should be 12 nautical miles and that this provision should apply to all territories of the People's Republic of China, including all islands on the South China Sea. On September 14 the same year, Premier Pham Van Dong of the Vietnamese Government solemnly stated in his note to Premier Zhou Enlai that Viet Nam "recognizes and supports the Declaration of the Government of the People's Republic of China on China's territorial sea."
> 
> c) It is stated in the lesson The People's Republic of China of a standard Vietnamese school textbook on geography published in 1974 that the islands from the Nansha and Xisha Islands to Hainan Island and Taiwan constitute a great wall for the defense of the mainland of China.
> 
> B. The maps printed by other countries in the world that mark the islands on the South China Sea as part of Chinese territory include:
> 
> 1. The Welt-Atlas published by the Federal Republic of Germany in 1954, 1961 and 1970 respectively;
> 
> 2. World Atlas published by the Soviet Union in 1954 and 1967 respectively;
> 
> 3. World Atlas published by Romania in 1957;
> 
> 4. Oxford Australian Atlas and Philips Record Atlas published by Britain in 1957 and Encyclopaedia Britannica World Atlas published by Britain in 1958;
> 
> 5. World Atlas drawn and printed by the mapping unit of the Headquarters of the General Staff of the People's Army of Viet Nam in 1960;
> 
> 6. Haack Welt Atlas published by German Democratic in 1968;
> 
> 7. Daily Telegraph World Atlas published by Britain in 1968;
> 
> 8. Atlas International Larousse published by France in 1968 and 1969 respectively;
> 
> 9. World Map Ordinary published by the Institut Geographique National (IGN) of France in 1968;
> 
> 10. World Atlas published by the Surveying and Mapping Bureau of the Prime Minister's Office of Viet Nam in 1972; and
> 
> 11. China Atlas published by Neibonsya of Japan in 1973.
> 
> C. China's sovereignty over the Nansha Islands is recognized in numerous international conferences.
> 
> 1. The 1951 San Francisco Conference on Peace Treaty called on Japan to give up the Xisha and Nansha Islands. Andrei Gromyko, Head of the Delegation of the Soviet Union to the Conference, pointed out in his statement that the Xisha and Nansha Islands were an inalienable part of Chinese territory. It is true that the San Francisco Peace Treaty failed to unambiguously ask Japan to restore the Xisha and Nansha Islands to China. But the Xisha, Nansha, Dongsha and Zhongsha Islands that Japan was asked to abandun by the Peace Agreement of San Francisco Conference were all clearly marked as Chinese territory in the fifteenth map A Map of Southeast Asia of the Standard World Atlas published by Japan in 1952, the second year after the peace conference in San Francisco, which was recommended by the then Japanese Foreign Minister Katsuo Okazaki in his own handwriting.
> 
> 2. The International Civil Aviation Organization held its first conference on Asia-Pacific regional aviation in Manila of the Philippines on 27 October 1955. Sixteen countries or regions were represented at the conference, including South Viet Nam and the Taiwan authorities, apart from Australia, Canada, Chile, Dominica, Japan, the Laos, the Republic of Korea, the Philippines, Thailand, the United Kingdom, the United States, New Zealand and France. The Chief Representative of the Philippines served as Chairman of the conference and the Chief Representative of France its first Vice Chairman. It was agreed at the conference that the Dongsha, Xisha and Nansha Islands on the South China Sea were located at the communication hub of the Pacific and therefore the meteorological reports of these islands were vital to world civil aviation service. In this context, the conference adopted Resolution No. 24, asking China's Taiwan authorities to improve meteorological observation on the Nansha Islands, four times a day. When this resolution was put for voting, all the representatives, including those of the Philippines and the South Viet Nam, were for it.
> 
> No representative at the conference made any objection to or reservation about it.


from diplomat magazine 
*Alex McLean*
@disqus_uL0Exuq1uG
@Nihonjin1051 @Chinese-Dragon @ChineseTiger1986 @Beast @ other Chinese and Japanese Vietnamese member who are fighting over south china sea

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Aepsilons

monitor said:


> from diplomat magazine
> *Alex McLean*
> @disqus_uL0Exuq1uG
> @Nihonjin1051 @Chinese-Dragon @ChineseTiger1986 @Beast @ other Chinese and Japanese Vietnamese member who are fighting over south china sea



Is it recognized under UNCLOS?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## monitor



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Aepsilons

Viet said:


> do what you like, while we do what we like. don´t bother us with your "pacify" bullshit.
> expect the US to do more aggressive moves in the times to come.



Did you hear bro? Viet Nam navy invited JMDF Fleet to joint patrol near your islands in SCS.

Hmm, excited ? I am. 



monitor said:


>



Nothing new, they've always patrolled this region. Freedom of navigation , I suppose, is guaranteed .


----------



## pher

Viet said:


> do what you like, while we do what we like. don´t bother us with your "pacify" bullshit.
> expect the US to do more aggressive moves in the times to come.


you should pray harder. once there is a war bw US and China, vietnam and japan will be the first batch to get wiped out.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Martian2

*What about Crimea?*

The US has proven nothing.

Unless the US Navy sails within 12 miles of Crimean waters, "warship freedom of navigation" is an empty claim.

Does the US recognize Crimea as part of Russia? If not, has the US sailed in Crimean waters?

If the US Navy is too afraid to sail within 12 miles of Crimea, US claims of upholding "Freedom of Navigation for warships" lack substance.

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## Aepsilons

pher said:


> you should pray harder. once there is a war bw US and China, vietnam and japan will be the first batch to get wiped out.



LOL

Wipe out ? Don't eat too much rice cakes, kid. You might choke on it. 

And die.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

pher said:


> you should pray harder. once there is a war bw US and China, vietnam and japan will be the first batch to get wiped out.


what has to do with Japan and Vietnam, if a war breaks out between China and America?
the winner will be the new master of Asia. the loser... well, think of yourselves.



Nihonjin1051 said:


> Did you hear bro? Viet Nam navy invited JMDF Fleet to joint patrol near your islands in SCS.
> 
> Hmm, excited ? I am.
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing new, they've always patrolled this region. Freedom of navigation , I suppose, is guaranteed .


yes, we invite all friendly nations, especially Japan to come to the party. Have I mentioned the russians are invited, too?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## tranquilium

It is an announcement of presence, nothing more, nothing less. It is essentially the same as this one:

留园网-【CNN】中国舰队进入美国水域 -6park.com

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Martian2

TaiShang said:


> On the build up of ships and other assets, there are members who are more knowledgeable to respond.
> 
> @cirr @cnleio @Martian2


The Chinese artificial islands are not yet operational.

Once all seven Chinese South China Sea islands become combat ready, we can expect China to take a hard line.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Keel

EAsian said:


> But you see，The problem is still there.Do China accept that US can patrol in our territorial waters？What you have said doesn't have much thing to do with the problem which discussed in this thread.
> I haven't said the constraction is of no use.It is useful but not gonna stop USA somehow magically.
> .



Get a brain

The constructions are important
We dont intercept as yet because our airplanes and vessels do not have the reach and infra to support them:

Keep building China!

Let the jpnese collect as much intel as they want meantime!

Read these:
Chinese Top Gun 'Barrel Rolled' Over US Plane
UPDATED: Chinese Aircraft May Have Conducted an Unsafe Intercept of U.S. Surveillance Plane Last Week - USNI News

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Viet

Nihonjin1051 said:


> LOL
> 
> Wipe out ? Don't eat too much rice cakes, kid. You might choke on it.
> 
> And die.


bro I usually laugh at such weaklings and cowards. they are the first to run to their moms.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Aepsilons

Viet said:


> what has to do with Japan and Vietnam, if a war breaks out between China and America?
> the winner will be the new master of Asia. the loser... well, think of yourselves.



hahaha, prospects for the future? 

Come brother let us prepare for a bright future...the scion of Trung and Jimmu shall bask in Glory.

The peaceful rays of the Sun shall give light and dispel darkness...


----------



## pher

Viet said:


> what has to do with Japan and Vietnam, if a war breaks out between China and America?
> the winner will be the new master of Asia. the loser... well, think of yourselves.
> 
> 
> yes, we invite all friendly nations, especially Japan to come to the party. Have I mentioned the russians are invited, too?


because you two are expendable from the view of China and US, a perfect battle ground for us to have a fair fighting. 

If the war happene on any of our soils, russians will definately jump in whther it like or not, and that will be a doomday for earth. so that will not happen.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## EAsian

Keel said:


> Get a brain
> 
> The constructions are important
> We dont intercept as yet because our airplanes and vessels do not have the reach and infra to support them:
> 
> Keep building China!
> 
> Let the jpnese collect as much intel as they want meantime!
> 
> Read these:
> Chinese Top Gun 'Barrel Rolled' Over US Plane
> UPDATED: Chinese Aircraft May Have Conducted an Unsafe Intercept of U.S. Surveillance Plane Last Week - USNI News


You think China will bomb the US destroyer？And there are already vessels around US destroyer.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Aepsilons

EAsian said:


> You think China will bomb the US destroyer？



Perhaps in the fantasy of keyboard warriors , armchair generals and the like. 

lol

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Keel

EAsian said:


> You think China will bomb the US destroyer？



You think the yankies dare to bomb our islands?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

pher said:


> because you two are expendable from the view of China and US, a perfect battle ground for us to have a fair fighting.
> 
> If the war happene on any of our soils, *russians *will definately jump in whther it like or not, and that will be a doomday for earth. so that will not happen.


you are a delusional boy. ask the russians if they want to join China to anger Vietnam?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EAsian

Keel said:


> You think the yankies dare to bomb our islands?


What？Have I said that？So parking some planes in those islands will magically stop the patrol of Yankees？

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Keel

It is childish for Obama to show their destroyer there after getting sour over improvement of our relationships with EU



EAsian said:


> What？Have I said that？So paking some planes in those islands will magically stop the patrol of Yankees？



Dont spew your nonsense here kid
What is the time now in China
Time to go to bed

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EAsian

Where comes the EU？This is getting hillarious.OK，I will stop here.Too stupid.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

Nihonjin1051 said:


> hahaha, prospects for the future?
> 
> Come brother let us prepare for a bright future...the scion of Trung and Jimmu shall bask in Glory.
> 
> The peaceful rays of the Sun shall give light and dispel darkness...


my prediction is:

Japan will return to the glorious days of the Empire, while Vietnam to the days of the Le Dynasty. the most powerful period of our history. Let unite our forces and fight against the Tyranny!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## terranMarine

The main goal for the Pinoys and these Viets have always been: US will stop China's land reclamations and constructions. If the only thing the US does is sending recon planes or ships for patrol what has actually been achieved? None of these objectives  , other than yup we Americans can come and go as we please in International waters.
The above animals go nuts jumping with joy for such an accomplishment. Point taken, now we get back to work once again. What is the US gonna do once we launch our Southern ADIZ?  Or what are the Viets expecting the Americans gonna do on their behalf?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Keel

Viet said:


> my prediction is:
> 
> Japan will return to the glorious days of the Empire, while Vietnam to the days of the Le Dynasty. the most powerful period of our history. Let unite our forces and fight against the Tyranny!



Tyrannies are the yankees and imperial jpnese now on revival

That will be an efficient fight for us, one stone 2 angry birds

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Aepsilons

The Americans , as guarantors of regional peace and security , will not engage in militaristic provocations . They merely are reiterating their official position in the freedom of navigation in the SCS. I suppose the JMSDF will join in this patrol as co-guarantors of freedom
Of navigation. 




Viet said:


> my prediction is:
> 
> Japan will return to the glorious days of the Empire, while Vietnam to the days of the Le Dynasty. the most powerful period of our history. Let unite our forces and fight against the Tyranny!



Hehehe you speak so sweetly, my brother. It is time we begin the dance for blessings.... 

Soon the Sun God will renew us with vigor. The Great Amaterasu....

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Keel

japan and america the evil initiatiors of war crimes and human tragedies, one pre and during, the other one post WW2
birds of ugly feathers flock together!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

Nihonjin1051 said:


> The Americans , as guarantors of regional peace and security , will not engage in militaristic provocations . They merely are reiterating their official position in the freedom of navigation in the SCS. I suppose the JMSDF will join in this patrol as co-guarantors of freedom
> Of navigation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hehehe you speak so sweetly, my brother. It is time we begin the dance for blessings....
> 
> Soon the Sun God will renew us with vigor. The Great Amaterasu....


yes, we usually have little mercy to our enemy, we have a very long military tradition. 2,000 years. remember the Trung sisters, Trưng Trắc and Trưng Nhị? the swords are sharp.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Aepsilons

Keel said:


> japan and america the evil initiatiors of war crimes and human tragedies, one pre one post WW2
> birds of ugly feathers flock together!



I love you too, my sweet darling. Birds of a lovely feather embrace together . Come, embrace us and join the Dance 



Viet said:


> yes, we usually have little mercy to our enemy, we have a very long military tradition. remember the Trung sisters, Trưng Trắc and Trưng Nhị? the swords are sharp.




Yes I remember the Trung Sisters. Beautiful as they were graceful in crushing the enemies of Viet Nam.


----------



## Cossack25A1

Someone here is losing their mind, saying that US and Japan are evil because the former just sailed a ship near their "islands" while the latter is "rising militarily"...and also indirectly implying that China is a "saint". 

The effects of the red koolaid is too strong!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Keel

Viet said:


> yes, we usually have little mercy to our enemy, we have a very long military tradition. remember the Trung sisters, Trưng Trắc and Trưng Nhị? the swords are sharp.



LOve the look of Chinese girls whom you viets get the inspirations from Chinese martial arts novels and movies



Nihonjin1051 said:


> I love you too, my sweet darling. Birds of a lovely feather embrace together . Come, embrace us and join the Dance



You can find your viet bros as you soul and physical mates

You seduction is very disgusting

Take your pinoy bros as well jpnese if you're lonely


----------



## Dungeness

I can understand the rage of the US so it has to do something about it, anything, but I really don't understand why Japanese and viets are so excited here. 

So far, China has never officially declared 12 nautical miles territory waters surrounding those islands, as those islands may not even have legitimate 12 nautical miles territory waters to begin with, based on International laws. 

Now all of sudden, everybody is talking as if China has already owned 12 miles territory waters as a matter of fact. On top of it, China now has a perfect reason to militarize those islands. Don't know how more stupid they can be.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zsari

EAsian said:


> But you see，The problem is still there.Do China accept that US can patrol in our territorial waters？What you have said doesn't have much thing to do with the problem which discussed in this thread.
> I haven't said the constraction is of no use.It is useful but not gonna stop USA somehow magically.


 
The US action is symbolic in nature, and Chinese diplomatic protest is also symbolic in nature. Its not that different from China and Japan sending routine patrols to the Diaoyu island where neither side recognize the claim of the other. The only difference is that US doesn't have a claim itself to any of the water, thus its action is actually of less legal ramification.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Gabriel92

People really think USA will dare to fight China for countries like Vietnam or Philippines?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## monitor

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Did you hear bro? Viet Nam navy invited JMDF Fleet to joint patrol near your islands in SCS.
> 
> Hmm, excited ? I am.
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing new, they've always patrolled this region. Freedom of navigation , I suppose, is guaranteed .


 US is just assuring his ally in this region that he is stand beside them if China do any harm

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Keel

Zsari said:


> The US action is symbolic in nature, and Chinese diplomatic protest is also symbolic in nature. Its not that different from China and Japan sending routine patrols to the Diaoyu island where neither side recognize the claim of the other. The only difference is that US doesn't have a claim itself to any of the water, thus its action is actually of less legal ramification.



Of course they are symbolic just to appease the hawks who are seeing even their closiest allies in EU are cozying up to China
Their gestures are showing to their little cohots in the pacific that they are still the boss

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Cossack25A1

Gabriel92 said:


> People really think USA will dare to fight China for countries like Vietnam or Philippines?



The Chinese members here think so.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Keel

Cossack25A1 said:


> The Chinese members here think so.



All wise people would think so
US to fight for the philippines? or vietnamese?
You people are naive indeed

Election year is coming
The Democrates want votes

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Cossack25A1

Keel said:


> All wise people would think so
> US to fight for the philippines? or vietnamese?
> You people are naive indeed
> 
> Election year is coming
> The Democrates want votes



I though you and your comrades ARE the ones who said that?


----------



## EAsian

Zsari said:


> The US action is symbolic in nature, and Chinese diplomatic protest is also symbolic in nature. Its not that different from China and Japan sending routine patrols to the Diaoyu island where neither side recognize the claim of the other. The only difference is that US doesn't have a claim itself to any of the water, thus its action is actually of less legal ramification.


You should understand they will not stop coming into our territotial waters if we don't act more seriously.That is the point of all my posts.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Dungeness

Nihonjin1051 said:


> What ever do you mean?




I think you understand what I meant perfectly.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Aepsilons

Keel said:


> LOve the look of Chinese girls whom you viets get the inspirations from Chinese martial arts novels and movies
> 
> 
> 
> You can find your viet bros as you soul and physical mates
> 
> You seduction is very disgusting
> 
> Take your pinoy bros as well jpnese if you're lonely



Seduction? I wasn't trying to seduce anyone. I was just showing you my kind affection as a friend. I didn't know you interpreted my kindness as sexually seductive. Perhaps you mistranslated me. My darling colleague!


----------



## Zsari

Dungeness said:


> I can understand the rage of the US so it has to do something about it, anything, but I really don't understand why Japanese and viets are so excited here.
> 
> So far, China has never officially declared 12 nautical miles territory waters surrounding those islands, as those islands may not even have legitimate 12 nautical miles territory waters to begin with, based on International laws.
> 
> Now all of sudden, everybody is talking as if China has already owned 12 miles territory waters as a matter of fact. On top of it, China now has a perfect reason to militarize those islands. Don't know how more stupid they can be.


 
These islands do have a 12nm territorial water per UNCLOS as none of the reef where China did the land reclamation was fully submerged during low tide.

_Article6
Reefs
In the case of islands situated on atolls or of islands having fringing reefs, the baseline for measuring the breadth of the territorial sea is the seaward low-water line of the reef, as shown by the appropriate symbol on charts officially recognized by the coastal State._

Of course as the ownership of the islands/reefs themselves is under dispute, whether other states recognize such possession as yours is where the disagreement lies, not the 12nm territorial water. I think a lot of media reports are misleading or simply making false statements.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Keel

EAsian said:


> You should understand they will not stop coming into our territotial waters if we don't act more seriously.That is the point of all my posts.



And you have all the while lost your point because we are not ready for deployment of our military hard and soft ware there!
Go to bed now please!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Aepsilons

Dungeness said:


> I think you understand what I meant perfectly.



Lol, tee hee!!

Maybe I am , maybe I'm not.


----------



## EAsian

Keel said:


> And you have all the while lost your point because we are not ready for deployment of our military hard and soft ware there!
> Go to bed now please!


Please Stop replying to me.I don't even want to explain it again.You don't need a fighter or bomber to stop them.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Aepsilons

EAsian said:


> Please Stop reply to me.I don't even want to explain it again.You don't need a fighter or bomber to stop them.



Well China can always deploy a Type 056 some 10 miles off the Virginia coast. 

A tit for tat, or is it a tat for tit?


----------



## Zsari

EAsian said:


> You should understand they will not stop coming into our territotial waters if we don't act more seriously.That is the point of all my posts.


 
China didn't start a shooting war with Japan over the Diaoyu island dispute for far more serious transgression, why do you think it would do anything beyond the symbolic with the US?


----------



## Aepsilons

@jhungary @gambit im sure this would charge the boys near Virginia Beach , eh? lol.


----------



## Keel

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Seduction? I wasn't trying to seduce anyone. I was just showing you my kind affection as a friend. I didn't know you interpreted my kindness as sexually seductive. Perhaps you mistranslated me. My darling colleague!



I AM NOT your DARLING
puke puke PUKE

Go and find yours in the likes of your viet pinoy indian pakistani and chinese brothers onboard of PDF please

YUCK


----------



## EAsian

Zsari said:


> China didn't start a shooting war with Japan over the Diaoyu island dispute for far more serious transgression, why do you think it would do anything beyond the symbolic with the US?


You haven't read my posts.There isn't and won't be any direct war between China and USA.


----------



## Solomon2

EAsian said:


> The problem is still there.Do China accept that US can patrol in our territorial waters？


Most of the world doesn't accept the SCS as China's "territorial waters".

China often invokes the Law of the Sea Treaty to justify exploiting the area, but what China did when it signed was attach a letter to the treaty saying that China's boundaries are whatever the government says they are - in direct contravention to much of the content of the Treaty. Then, when many countries complained about this grab for territory, China doubled down and declared it would not abide by the conflict resolution procedures of the Treaty, either. 

So China wants the fruits of sea diplomacy but few - if any - of the duties. I imagine the purpose of this thuggish behavior is to provide the Party with a mechanism to begin a war at its convenience, providing an excuse for wartime unity when its own domestic situation becomes shaky.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Dungeness

Zsari said:


> These islands do have a 12nm territorial water per UNCLOS as none of the reef where China did the land reclamation was fully submerged during low tide.
> 
> _Article6
> Reefs
> In the case of islands situated on atolls or of islands having fringing reefs, the baseline for measuring the breadth of the territorial sea is the seaward low-water line of the reef, as shown by the appropriate symbol on charts officially recognized by the coastal State._
> 
> Of course as the ownership of the islands/reefs themselves is under dispute, whether other states recognize such possession as yours is where the disagreement lies, not the 12nm territorial water. I think a lot of media reports are misleading or simply making false statements.




Two points can be disputed. 

1. I am not sure if those reefs were fully submerged at low tide before China took them in 1988. 2. I am not sure if those reefs can be considered as "fringing reefs of a coastal state".


----------



## Keel

Dungeness said:


> Two points can be disputed.
> 
> 1. I am not sure if those reefs were fully submerged at low tide before China took them in 1988. 2. *I am not sure if those reefs can be considered as "fringing reefs of a coastal state"*.



We can draw the reference to some countries which claim the territorial rights after land reclamation such as the Netherlands, Singapore etc cant we?


----------



## Aepsilons

Zsari said:


> China didn't start a shooting war with Japan over the Diaoyu island dispute for far more serious transgression, why do you think it would do anything beyond the symbolic with the US?






Keel said:


> And you have all the while lost your point because we are not ready for deployment of our military hard and soft ware there!
> Go to bed now please!



Okay. Good to know.


----------



## Cossack25A1

Nihonjin1051 said:


> @jhungary @gambit im sure this would charge the boys near Virginia Beach , eh? lol.



Didn't they do this when the PLA sent five naval ships off the coast of Alaska last September?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Aepsilons

Solomon2 said:


> Most of the world doesn't accept the SCS as China's "territorial waters".
> 
> China often invokes the Law of the Sea Treaty to justify exploiting the area, but what China did when it signed was attach a letter to the treaty saying that China's boundaries are whatever the government says they are - in direct contravention to much of the content of the Treaty. Then, when many countries complained about this grab for territory, China doubled down and declared it would not abide by the conflict resolution procedures of the Treaty, either.
> 
> So China wants the fruits of sea diplomacy but few - if any - of the duties. I imagine the purpose of this thuggish behavior is to provide the Party with a mechanism to begin a war at its convenience, providing an excuse for wartime unity when its own domestic situation becomes shaky.



The point tho that various parties have alluded to is China's binding nature to UNCLOS since she is a signatory member. This is something often not impressed upon.



Cossack25A1 said:


> Didn't they do this when the PLA sent five naval ships off the coast of Alaska last September?



Yes they did, and the U.S. Allowed them as per international law. 



Cossack25A1 said:


> Didn't they do this when the PLA sent five naval ships off the coast of Alaska last September?



In fact during last year's 2014 RIMPAC the Chinese ships sailed around within 12 nautical miles off the coast of Oahu and Maui, without any provocative responses by the 7th fleet nor were any Chinese ships trailed and hailed by USN vessels. 

What we in the naval community are surprised at is the Chinese' hypocritical response here.

And rightfully so.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## mike jones

Matt Gurney: U.S. Navy 1, China 0 | National Post







An American destroyer deliberately ignored Chinese territorial claims that Washington rejects. Beijing's response was muted ... this time.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Dungeness

Keel said:


> We can draw the reference to some countries which claim the territorial rights after land reclamation such as the Netherlands, Singapore etc cant we?



They can be disputed, but the ground reality is China is on those islands and building them continuously, but this is not my point. By the provoking action of the US, it is confirmed that everyone is taking 12 miles seriously, and itself is a huge gain for China.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Indus Falcon

This could get real ugly, real fast!!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Solomon2

Nihonjin1051 said:


> The point tho that various parties have alluded to is China's binding nature to UNCLOS since she is a signatory member. This is something often not impressed upon.


By "agreeing" to cooperate via treaty yet insisting that nobody can do anything in the disputed area without permission China is in effect demanding "the lion's share":


_





A hyena and a lion who go hunting. The lion divides their take into three, awarding himself the first because he is king of the beasts, the second because they are 'equal' partners, and suggesting that the hyena runs away quickly before daring to touch the third. _​

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zsari

Dungeness said:


> Two points can be disputed.
> 
> 1. I am not sure if those reefs were fully submerged at low tide before China took them in 1988. 2. I am not sure if those reefs can be considered as "fringing reefs of a coastal state".


 
Natural feature of the reefs are described below.
List of maritime features in the Spratly Islands - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Most if not all of the reefs in the Spratly chain are classified as atolls.


----------



## EAsian

Dungeness said:


> They can be disputed, but the ground reality is China is on those islands and building them continuously, but this is not my point. By the provoking action of the US, it is confirmed that everyone is taking 12 miles seriously, and itself is a huge gain for China.


Too passive and unnecessary，as I have said.You said your own opinion.No need to make as if you have said something through what your enemy against.It sounds funny.More like a joke rather than a huge gain.


----------



## terranMarine

Keep it up and China will eventually militarize our islands  and slap the Viets with our own Southern ADIZ

Reactions: Like Like:
11


----------



## Keel

Dungeness said:


> They can be disputed, but the ground reality is China is on those islands and building them continuously, but this is not my point. By the provoking action of the US, it is confirmed that everyone is taking 12 miles seriously, and itself is a huge gain for China.



Of course and we havent make the declaration as yet even though by the Law of Territorial Waters (UN Convention of the Law of the Sea) the 12-mile demarcations should be honoured and respected

As I said it is just a "showing off" of the hawks who is blaming the Obama admin's getting too soft on China and again it is entering into the election year, they need votes

GOP congressional leaders denounce U.S.-China deal on climate change - The Washington Post
Matt Kaminski on Robert Menendez: Return of the Hawkish Democrat - WSJ



Solomon2 said:


> By "agreeing" to cooperate via treaty yet insisting that nobody can do anything in the disputed area without permission China is in effect demanding "the lion's share":
> 
> 
> _A hyena and a lion who go hunting. The lion divides their take into three, awarding himself the first because he is king of the beasts, the second because they are 'equal' partners, and suggesting that the hyena runs away quickly before daring to touch the third. _​



YOu need to actually count the total number of islands that each of the countries has already occupied
China, Vietnam, Malaysia, Philippines ... then you should know who is now getting the "Lion's Share" in reality


----------



## Solomon2

Keel said:


> YOu need to actually count the total number of islands that each of the countries have already occupied China, Vietnam, Malaysia, Philippines ... then you should know who is now getting the "Lion's Share" in reality


Most Chinese don't know about UNCLOS. Number counting games have no role. There are dispute mechanisms in UNCLOS. There are even procedures for uninhabited and artificial islands in UNCLOS. Chinese government's approach is to trash them all and declare that what they say China wants is what China deserves to get. The Party is blinding the people.


----------



## Keel

Even if you count this petty patrol as an american victory then it should be

1 US 7 China 

since we have reclaimed so many islands before this childish, frivolous patrol

Reactions: Positive Rating Positive Rating:
1 | Like Like:
21


----------



## tranquilium

China - 1 USA - 1

Chinese navy ships entered U.S. waters off Alaska - CNNPolitics.com

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Keel

Solomon2 said:


> Most Chinese don't know about UNCLOS. Number counting games have no role. There are dispute mechanisms in UNCLOS. There are even procedures for uninhabited and artificial islands in UNCLOS. Chinese government's approach is to trash them all and declare that what they say China wants is what China deserves to get. The Party is blinding the people.



No role? it's occupation that counts and that is the reason why our building and occupation of the islands irk the yankees so much!

We are talking about who has the "Lion's Share" of the islands. By "Lion's share" it means actual occupation


----------



## Zsari

Solomon2 said:


> Most Chinese don't know about UNCLOS. Number counting games have no role. There are dispute mechanisms in UNCLOS. There are even procedures for uninhabited and artificial islands in UNCLOS. Chinese government's approach is to trash them all and declare that what they say China wants is what China deserves to get. The Party is blinding the people.


 
And which text in UNCLOS describe the procedures for uninhabited and artificial islands? As far as dispute mechanism is concerned, China has already upon the ratification of the treaty followed the procedure in accordance to article 298 in declaring that it rejects any such arbitration.


_Article 298
Optional exceptions to applicability of section 2
1. When signing, ratifying or acceding to this Convention or at any time thereafter, a State may, without prejudice to the obligations arising under section 1, declare in writing that it does not accept any one or more of the procedures provided for in section 2 with respect to one or more of the following categories of disputes:
(a) (i) disputes concerning the interpretation or application of articles 15, 74 and 83 relating to sea boundary delimitations, or those involving historic bays or titles, provided that a State having made such a declaration shall, when such a dispute arises subsequent to the entry into force of this Convention and where no agreement within a reasonable period of time is reached in negotiations between the parties, at the request of any party to the dispute, accept submission of the matter to conciliation under Annex V, section 2; and provided further that any dispute that necessarily involves the concurrent consideration of any unsettled dispute concerning sovereignty or other rights over continental or insular land territory shall be excluded from such submission;
(ii) after the conciliation commission has presented its report, which shall state the reasons on which it is based, the parties shall negotiate an agreement on the basis of that report; if these negotiations do not result in an agreement, the parties shall, by mutual consent, submit the question to one of the procedures provided for in section 2, unless the parties otherwise agree;
(iii) this subparagraph does not apply to any sea boundary dispute finally settled by an arrangement between the parties, or to any such dispute which is to be settled in accordance with a bilateral or multilateral agreement binding upon those parties;
(b) disputes concerning military activities, including military activities by government vessels and aircraft engaged in non-commercial service, and disputes concerning law enforcement activities in regard to the exercise of sovereign rights or jurisdiction excluded from the jurisdiction of a court or tribunal under article 297, paragraph 2 or 3;
(c) disputes in respect of which the Security Council of the United Nations is exercising the functions assigned to it by the Charter of the United Nations, unless the Security Council decides to remove the matter from its agenda or calls upon the parties to settle it by the means provided for in this Convention._



Nihonjin1051 said:


> Well China can always deploy a Type 056 some 10 miles off the Virginia coast.
> 
> A tit for tat, or is it a tat for tit?


 
What's there to gain? What US does around the Chinese controlled islands, China can do around islands controlled by other claimants, even in area where it doesn't have a dispute in. Now that is something where gains can be made.


----------



## Solomon2

Zsari said:


> And which text in UNCLOS describe the procedures for uninhabited and artificial islands?


If you are that interested you can click the embedded link in my post and explore further the UNCLOS text yourself.



> As far as dispute mechanism is concerned, China has already upon the ratification of the treaty followed the procedure in accordance to article 298 in declaring that it rejects any such arbitration.


The exception cited provides for a conciliation commission to review and report. China rejects that, too.


----------



## xunzi

The best response is keep quiet from our media stand point, meanwhile aggressively tracking their ship and lock on to them. Continue to build on our islands and install defense post in case of the worse.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Zsari

Solomon2 said:


> If you are that interested you can click the embedded link in my post and explore further the UNCLOS text yourself.
> 
> The exception cited provides for a conciliation commission to review and report. China rejects that, too.


 
Yes China is exercising its right allowed for by the treaty in rejecting any of the procedures in Section 2. And don't be lazy, please cite the articles in your argument.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Solomon2

Zsari said:


> Yes China is exercising its right allowed for by the treaty in rejecting any of the procedures in Section 2.


Point to the conciliation commission.



> And don't be lazy, please cite the articles in your argument.


Article 60 discusses artificial islands and installations. 
Article 121 discusses uninhabitable (NOT uninhabited, sorry, my mistake) islands.


----------



## Dungeness

Dungeness said:


> I can understand the rage of the US so it has to do something about it, anything, but I really don't understand why Japanese and viets are so excited here.
> 
> So far, China has never officially declared 12 nautical miles territory waters surrounding those islands, as those islands may not even have legitimate 12 nautical miles territory waters to begin with, based on International laws.
> 
> Now all of sudden, everybody is talking as if China has already owned 12 miles territory waters as a matter of fact. On top of it, China now has a perfect reason to militarize those islands. Don't know how more stupid they can be.



This is exactly what I was talking about.  See below for Chinese Official reaction:

_"If any country thinks that, through some gimmicks, they will be able to interfere with or even prevent China from engaging in reasonable, legitimate and legal activities in its own territories, I want to suggest those countries give up such fantasy," ministry spokesman Lu Kang said.

"*In fact, if relevant parties insist on creating tensions in the region and making trouble out of nothing, it may force China to draw the conclusion that we need to strengthen and hasten the buildup of our relevant capabilities. I advise the U.S. not to create such a self-fulfilling prophecy.*"

China warns U.S. warship in South China Sea - CNN.com
_

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zsari

Solomon2 said:


> Point to the conciliation commission.
> 
> Article 60 discusses artificial islands and installations.
> Article 121 discusses uninhabitable (NOT uninhabited, sorry, my mistake) islands.


 
Thank you. Article 60 is regarding to artificial islands and installations, but what we have here are artificial structures on existing reefs, all of which are above water during low tide. Citing Article 6, these islands are entitled to 12nm of territorial water. 

_Article 6. Reefs 
In the case of islands situated on atolls or of islands having fringing reefs, the baseline for measuring the breadth of the territorial sea is the seaward low-water line of the reef, as shown by the appropriate symbol on charts officially recognized by the coastal State._

Article 121 is the regime of island where it specifies that uninhabited island are not entitled to 200nm of EEZ, and no one is claiming a 200nm EEZ from these islands anyway.



Dungeness said:


> This is exactly what I was talking about.  See below for Chinese Official reaction:
> 
> _"If any country thinks that, through some gimmicks, they will be able to interfere with or even prevent China from engaging in reasonable, legitimate and legal activities in its own territories, I want to suggest those countries give up such fantasy," ministry spokesman Lu Kang said.
> 
> "*In fact, if relevant parties insist on creating tensions in the region and making trouble out of nothing, it may force China to draw the conclusion that we need to strengthen and hasten the buildup of our relevant capabilities. I advise the U.S. not to create such a self-fulfilling prophecy.*"
> 
> China warns U.S. warship in South China Sea - CNN.com_


 
Indeed, this would be a good justification for further construction and buildup.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## mike2000 is back

To be honest, the U.S should also give some space to China at least in Chinas own immediate shores. The U.S is already the dominant naval power in Asia,nobody can contest that not anytime soon. So i dont think giving some little space to the Chinese will do much harm. Afterall, its rather bad for a big country not to even be able to assert its infleunce in its own immediate shores. 
Think both countries should agree on some way to resolve this dispute that will be benefit both sides and the region as a whole. Afterall, last time i checked i was shocked to find out that even Vietnam controls more territory in the SCS/spratlys islands than the Chinese by farrrr. Lol


----------



## Solomon2

Zsari said:


> Thank you. Article 60 is regarding to artificial islands and installations, but what we have here are artificial structures on existing reefs, all of which are above water during low tide. Citing Article 6, these islands are entitled to 12nm of territorial water.


This is _only_ for reefs attached to habitable islands, and installations upon them do not affect territorial claims.



mike2000 is back said:


> To be honest, the U.S should also give some space to China at least in Chonas own immediate shores.


That brings up an additional issue, that China is claiming additional sea territory but refusing to define its limits. China's probable intent, then, is to keep the South China Sea warm until China wants it to go hot.


----------



## Dungeness

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Well China can always deploy a Type 056 some 10 miles off the Virginia coast.
> 
> A tit for tat, or is it a tat for tit?



I think you are getting a little too high on the news, and trolling is not a "professional" like you would do . Why China wants to be that stupid?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zsari

Solomon2 said:


> This is _only_ for reefs attached to habitable islands, and installations upon them do not affect territorial claims.


 
The very definition of atoll is a coral formation that is not attached to any island as compare to a fringing reef. You are making assumptions that are not within the text especially regarding to the inhabitable part. Chinese argument has always been regarding the pre-existing territorial claim of the reefs, not the installation or land reclamation.


----------



## jhungary

Zsari said:


> There is a difference between transiting and conducting military operation while calling it navigation. The current rule was established by maritime powers that serve to facilitate their operation in other countries near shore. It is thus quiet natural for China to seek to change such rule that would serve to protect the security of continental powers instead.



Actually, according to UNCLOS, there are no different between transiting and conducting military operation. China can hold a military Drill in US EEZ as much *** the US having the same right to hold a Military Drill in China EEZ.

The definition of "Rules" is that it Applies to* EVERYBODY* and no one was in exception.

Even the US observe this "rules" even tho the US has not ratified the UNCLOS.

The problem with what you and most Chinese thinking is, since China wasn't "Around" when the rules was set, the China should not by all account respect and obey the rules and instead having their "Own" set of rules.

Well, I did not say China cannot do that, but you cannot do that and say China is not escalating anything. You can change the rules by having it heard internationally, and then when all other party agree to and ratified the amendment, then the rules can be change. You cannot unilaterally change the "rules" when you deem fits and call other aggressive. When you change the rules unilaterally, you are the party that act aggressively.

Baseline is, if you don't play nice, you automatically refused the right to call other foul.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Solomon2

Zsari said:


> Chinese argument has always been regarding the pre-existing territorial claim of the reefs, not the installation or land reclamation.


And China's claims to such on uninhabited islands and reefs is especially weak, not having been a seapower for some five hundred years and lacking archaeological or historical accounts of habiting or claiming such islands and atolls. Trying to establish them _now,_ by force and occupation, infringes upon the archipelagic sovereign rights (Article IV) of the Philippines and Malaysia and maybe Japan - rights that China cannot claim, not being an archipelagic State.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Beast

monitor said:


> from diplomat magazine
> *Alex McLean*
> @disqus_uL0Exuq1uG
> @Nihonjin1051 @Chinese-Dragon @ChineseTiger1986 @Beast @ other Chinese and Japanese Vietnamese member who are fighting over south china sea


China will step up the patrol to Guam island.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## mike jones

tranquilium said:


> China - 1 USA - 1
> 
> Chinese navy ships entered U.S. waters off Alaska - CNNPolitics.com



lol, the guy said "people know the strength of the United States, know the strength of our military. We don't need to display a parade necessarily for people to understand what United States is capable of." 

Best comment ever from USA!

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## anon45

Tom99 said:


> As China have said many times, the Freedom of Navigation was never threaten by any islands on SCS. And the American's display this time will have no effect whatsoever on China's continuation of developing of their islands.



Then there is nothing for the Chinese to be angry about, and nothing for us to worry about.



xunzi said:


> The best response is keep quiet from our media stand point, meanwhile aggressively tracking their ship and lock on to them. Continue to build on our islands and install defense post in case of the worse.




sure continue installing defences, but these islands are of symbolic value only, in a serious conflict they would be quickly resurfaced. Think of them as stationary carriers. Useful against those without the means to retaliate.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## dichoi

terranMarine said:


> Keep it up and China will eventually militarize our islands  and slap the Viets with our own Southern ADIZ



Useless kid, USA slapped on your face hardly, take it.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Zero_wing

Good luck screwing yourselves kung ano tinanim yun rin ng aanihin


----------



## Zsari

jhungary said:


> Actually, according to UNCLOS, there are no different between transiting and conducting military operation. China can hold a military Drill in US EEZ as much *** the US having the same right to hold a Military Drill in China EEZ.
> 
> The definition of "Rules" is that it Applies to* EVERYBODY* and no one was in exception.
> 
> Even the US observe this "rules" even tho the US has not ratified the UNCLOS.
> 
> The problem with what you and most Chinese thinking is, since China wasn't "Around" when the rules was set, the China should not by all account respect and obey the rules and instead having their "Own" set of rules.
> 
> Well, I did not say China cannot do that, but you cannot do that and say China is not escalating anything. You can change the rules by having it heard internationally, and then when all other party agree to and ratified the amendment, then the rules can be change. You cannot unilaterally change the "rules" when you deem fits and call other aggressive. When you change the rules unilaterally, you are the party that act aggressively.
> 
> Baseline is, if you don't play nice, you automatically refused the right to call other foul.


 
It has nothing to do with playing nice or naughty. There is no written rule defining the freedom of navigation. It is however used as a red herring by the US that any Chinese objection to its conducting military exercise and espionage mission in its near shore is branded as against the freedom of navigation. 

And yes you can say everyone plays by the same rule, that if US can conduct military drills in China's EEZ, then China can as well vice versa, but China doesn't want to conduct military drill anywhere near the US, nor does it want the US to so so in its own backyard. So it naturally wants to better define the rule in its favor. And how is China going to convince the US to accept that? It can't. So the only thing it can do is to deter and disrupt US action that it deems unfavorable, so as to become the norm, or an unwritten rule, just like the current interpretation on the "freedom of navigation". Until it is the US interest to better define or change the rule, that's the best China can and will do.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## terranMarine

dichoi said:


> Useless kid, USA slapped on your face hardly, take it.


 i thought Vietnam is a supa powa that kicked every major powers out so why do you need US for?

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## mike jones

terranMarine said:


> i thought Vietnam is a supa powa that kicked every major powers out so why do you need US for?



Because Vietnam doesn't have 1.3 billion lives to waste on war. It would be suicide for Vietnam.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## terranMarine

mike jones said:


> Because Vietnam doesn't have 1.3 billion lives to waste on war.


lame reply

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## mike jones

terranMarine said:


> lame reply



I'm with you on that man. Why is it lame? Vietnam doesn't have 1.3 billion lives. It would be suicide. Right?


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

So we built the islands, America couldn't stop us from building the islands, therefore they "won"? 

Great, more islands for us then.

Reactions: Like Like:
14


----------



## Rechoice

terranMarine said:


> i thought Vietnam is a supa powa that kicked every major powers out so why do you need US for?



Our warship is patrolled here nearby fake Island. ...

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## mike jones

Chinese-Dragon said:


> So we built the islands, America couldn't stop us from building the islands, therefore they "won"?
> 
> Great, more islands for us then.



China should push forward. Build more and more islands. Please!


----------



## senheiser

roflmao a canadian kissing american feet. Why i am not surprised?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

mike jones said:


> China should push forward. Build more and more islands. Please!



Of course. See the pictures of the new islands above, there will be many more.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## mike jones

senheiser said:


> roflmao a canadian kissing american feet. Why i am not surprised?



They have been doing the kissing a long time ago. Sometime they kiss each other. Are you surprised?


----------



## senheiser

mike jones said:


> They have been doing the kissing a long time ago. Sometime they kiss each other. Are you surprised?


so how is Canadian dollar doing with low oil price? does that benefit you?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Hamartia Antidote

terranMarine said:


> Keep it up and China will eventually militarize our islands  and slap the Viets with our own Southern ADIZ



Like that wasn't the PLAN all along...


----------



## mike jones

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Of course. See the pictures of the new islands above, there will be many more.



Would be better to see the Great Wall of China erected in SCS. That would be the day. Right?



senheiser said:


> so how is Canadian dollar doing with low oil price? does that benefit you?



Hehe, Canadian dollar is fine. It is helping me making American dollars. Cheap CAD dollar is good for Canadian.


----------



## Zsari

Solomon2 said:


> And China's claims to such on uninhabited islands and reefs is especially weak, not having been a seapower for some five hundred years and lacking archaeological or historical accounts of habiting or claiming such islands and atolls. Trying to establish them _now,_ by force and occupation, infringes upon the archipelagic sovereign rights (Article IV) of the Philippines and Malaysia and maybe Japan - rights that China cannot claim, not being an archipelagic State.


 
China is the first claimant to the region in the modern era when nation like Philippine and Vietnam were still colonies of the west. Especially compare to Philippine whose border is well defined under the Paris Treaty between Spain and the US that excludes it from any of the islands in the South China Sea, Chinese claim are much stronger.
Beyond that, there is the Japanese occupation, which by Treaty of Taipei with ROC it has relinquished all control over the islands in SCS. And further back, the Chinese-Vietnamese Boundary convention in 1887 signed with the French also confirmed Qing's ownership of the Spratly and Paracel islands.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## senheiser

mike jones said:


> Would be better to see the Great Wall of China erected in SCS. That would be the day. Right?
> 
> 
> 
> Hehe, Canadian dollar is fine. It is helping me making American dollars. Cheap CAD dollar is good for Canadian.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## mike jones

senheiser said:


>



Someone has to do it right? Nothing is wrong with that. Problem with the world nowadays is people think too highly of themselves and forgot where they came from.


----------



## boomslang

senheiser said:


> roflmao a canadian kissing american feet. Why i am not surprised?



Look at you, huffing German o-ring.



senheiser said:


>



Who's that ? You back in Russia ? RUSSIA......................HAHAHAHAHA !!!!



senheiser said:


> so how is Canadian dollar doing with low oil price? ...



They're doing better than Russia. Russia..................HAHAHAHAHAHAHA !!!!!!!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Penguin

Even if China had sovereignty over Spratleys and Paracels, it would still mean only 12 nmi territorial waters. A 200nmi EEZ has NOTHING to do with sovereignty/territory, and the right to close waters to others. Hence the claim SCS in its entirtey is Chinese territory is ... ludicrous.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

Zsari said:


> China is the first claimant to the region in the modern era when nation like Philippine and Vietnam were still colonies of the west. Especially compare to Philippine whose border is well defined under the Paris Treaty between Spain and the US that excludes it from any of the islands in the South China Sea, Chinese claim are much stronger.
> Beyond that, there is the Japanese occupation, which by Treaty of Taipei with ROC it has relinquished all control over the islands in SCS. And further back, the Chinese-Vietnamese Boundary convention in 1887 signed with the French also confirmed Qing's ownership of the Spratly and Paracel islands.



Vietnam controlled Islands from Le, Ngyen Dynasty, long before colonie time.

Old map of Vietnam stated Hoang Sa is part of Qungnam province in 1667.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## somebozo

tranquilium said:


> China - 1 USA - 1
> 
> Chinese navy ships entered U.S. waters off Alaska - CNNPolitics.com



China has entered every economy, industry and manufacturing sector of USA...so navy in or out what difference does it make?? Real power is economy!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cnleio

This is not the TV Game ...

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Rechoice

monitor said:


> from diplomat magazine
> *Alex McLean*
> @disqus_uL0Exuq1uG
> @Nihonjin1051 @Chinese-Dragon @ChineseTiger1986 @Beast @ other Chinese and Japanese Vietnamese member who are fighting over south china sea



From 1954 to 1975, both Paracel and Spratly belong to South Vietnam. North Vietnam didn't have right to the Islands. Howver what you said above is fabricating of Chinese.

Parecel and spratly belong to Vietnam from 1667. Old map of Vietnam.





Old map of Vietnam 1836. both Paracel and Spratly is under controlle of Vietnam.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Dungeness

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Like that wasn't the PLAN all along...




Well, now they have a good reason to put even more there. See their office statement today:

"If any country thinks that, through some gimmicks, they will be able to interfere with or even prevent China from engaging in reasonable, legitimate and legal activities in its own territories, I want to suggest those countries give up such fantasy," ministry spokesman Lu Kang said.

"In fact, if relevant parties insist on creating tensions in the region and making trouble out of nothing,* it may force China to draw the conclusion that we need to strengthen and hasten the buildup of our relevant capabilities. I advise the U.S. not to create such a self-fulfilling prophecy*."

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Kyle Sun

Rechoice said:


> Vietnam controlled Islands from Le, Ngyen Dynasty, long before colonie time.
> 
> Old map of Vietnam stated Hoang Sa is part of Qungnam province in 1667.


You call that a map ?

You claim for those islands with a so called map which was wrote in Chinese ?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cnleio

Penguin said:


> Even if China had sovereignty over Spratleys and Paracels, it would still mean only 12 nmi territorial waters. A 200nmi EEZ has NOTHING to do with sovereignty/territory, and the right to close waters to others. Hence the claim SCS in its entirtey is Chinese territory is ... ludicrous.


U forget Franklin Island to Britain or Hawaii to U.S, there's nothing is ludicrous, power speaking in the world ... also Japan building artificial island in the pacific.



> The UN said it has begun examining Japan's bid to extend its continental shelf in the Pacific to a gigantic seabed, Kyodo News reported.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

Kyle Sun said:


> You call that a map ?
> 
> You claim for those islands with a so called map which was wrote in Chinese ?



This is Vietnam map. In the past we have used Han Zi to writting, like what Japanese do untill now.

Vietnam map in 1836.


----------



## mike2000 is back

cnleio said:


> U forget *Franklin Island to Britain* or Hawaii to U.S, there's nothing is ludicrous, power speaking in the world ... also Japan building artificial island in the pacific.
> 
> 
> View attachment 267741



Falkland islands bro.


----------



## Kyle Sun

Rechoice said:


> This is Vietnam map. In the past we have used Han Zi to writting, like what Japanese do untill now.
> 
> Vietnam map in 1836.


Vietnam was our vassal state.
You and the whole Viet ,including those islands, belonged to us when your ancestor made this so called map.

And we claimed nine dash lines after WW2, no one questioned that .

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cnleio

mike2000 is back said:


> Falkland islands bro.


Im sorry for my bad English ... there'r also several oversea colony islands in the Pacific far away from Britain and France, much further than the distance between SCS island and mainland of China ... so nothing is ludicrous.


----------



## Dungeness

Rechoice said:


> This is Vietnam map. In the past we have used Han Zi to writting, like what Japanese do untill now.
> 
> Vietnam map in 1836.




Those islands on the map seem to be in the wrong place. They maybe just some irrelevant islands off Vietnam coast. Besides, if maps can do the job, why we need Navy?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Kyle Sun

make it 1000 : 0 .

We do not care about such childish game.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## somsak

Focus on your work. Everything else is distraction. Silk Road and Yuan Internationalization is Chinas goal. Focus on that

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Kyle Sun

somsak said:


> Focus on your work. Everything else is distraction. Silk Road and Yuan Internationalization is Chinas goal. Focus on that



Especially RMB internationalization. 

Saddam got hanged because he claimed iraq would do international settlement with euro in oil trade.

Shameless US GOV made a lie of WMD.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zsari

Penguin said:


> Even if China had sovereignty over Spratleys and Paracels, it would still mean only 12 nmi territorial waters. A 200nmi EEZ has NOTHING to do with sovereignty/territory, and the right to close waters to others. Hence the claim SCS in its entirtey is Chinese territory is ... ludicrous.



China has yet to declare its EEZ. Of all the islansd in the Spratly chain, there is a single island that is fully qualified for EEZ, and that is the Taiping island which is currently controlled by ROC. So until PRC/ROC resolve their difference, China will most definitely hold back on such a declaration. Right now China is just sticking to the 9 dash line which is a mirror of the 10 dash line published by ROC without giving much detail.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TaiShang

Dungeness said:


> They can be disputed, but the ground reality is China is on those islands and building them continuously, but this is not my point. By the provoking action of the US, it is confirmed that everyone is taking 12 miles seriously, and itself is a huge gain for China.





Build-up in peace time because in war time you might need them.

China needs a bit more time, hence, it needs not let the status quo to be dramatically changed. 

Most of the world does not give a crap about this freedom of navigation concern of the US as most of the world knows that the greatest threat to the world peace is the US itself. 

Let alone most of the world, even ASEAN does not give a crap about this sudden US love for FON.

This, in fact, reminds people of some past nasty memories -- such as bringing democracy to Iraq and Libya. 

Most of the world has seen China as their largest trade partner whose goods arrive in their ports through sea lanes. 

This is a pure great power struggle which involves some graceful act on part of the two while the minions (JP-VN-PH, to be exact) are let out to do the barking and the little nasty stuff.



somsak said:


> Focus on your work. Everything else is distraction. Silk Road and Yuan Internationalization is Chinas goal. Focus on that



Exactly. We in fact treat these US adventurisms as minor distractions. Hence, you will not see high officials commenting on that. We are busy with stuff like this:

Denmark signs AIIB agreement - China.org.cn

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Dungeness

TaiShang said:


> Build-up in peace time because in war time you might need them.
> 
> China needs a bit more time, hence, it needs not let the status quo to be dramatically changed.
> 
> Most of the world does not give a crap about this freedom of navigation concern of the US as most of the world knows that the greatest threat to the world peace is the US itself.
> 
> Let alone most of the world, even ASEAN does not give a crap about this sudden US love for FON.
> 
> This, in fact, reminds people of some past nasty memories -- such as bringing democracy to Iraq and Libya.
> 
> Most of the world has seen China as their largest trade partner whose goods arrive in their ports through sea lanes.
> 
> This is a pure great power struggle which involves some graceful act on part of the two while the minions (JP-VN-PH, to be exact) are let out to do the barking and the little nasty stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly. We in fact treat these US adventurisms as minor distractions. Hence, you will not see high officials commenting on that. We are busy with stuff like this:
> 
> Denmark signs AIIB agreement - China.org.cn



Well, US is 18 months too later now if they were serious about FON, and it is just face saving gesture that even themselves know it means jack to the ground reality. What I really don't understand is why in the world Japanese and Vietnamese here are up and down like they just hit a jackpot. 

US already said that they will conduct similar FON operations around Vietnam and Philippine occupied islands in the near future. So what Vietnam has gained exactly that made them so happy?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TaiShang

Zsari said:


> It has nothing to do with playing nice or naughty. There is no written rule defining the freedom of navigation. It is however used as a red herring by the US that any Chinese objection to its conducting military exercise and espionage mission in its near shore is branded as against the freedom of navigation.
> 
> And yes you can say everyone plays by the same rule, that if US can conduct military drills in China's EEZ, then China can as well vice versa, but China doesn't want to conduct military drill anywhere near the US, nor does it want the US to so so in its own backyard. So it naturally wants to better define the rule in its favor. And how is China going to convince the US to accept that? It can't. So the only thing it can do is to deter and disrupt US action that it deems unfavorable, so as to become the norm, or an unwritten rule, just like the current interpretation on the "freedom of navigation". Until it is the US interest to better define or change the rule, that's the best China can and will do.



In a sense, it is an attempt to change conventions, which corresponds well with China's growing capabilities and influence.

As long as it is possible to abstain from directly engaging the US, China will do that; and will set up its own alternative norms, like it attempts to do with the AIIB.

But, the maritime plane, given how widespread the US presence is, is one area that a confrontation is unavoidable as to the norms and rules of coexistence. 

The competition and struggle will continue in a foreseeable future as the two sides will not back down easily.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## hoangsa

dichoi said:


> _USS Lassen US ship is patrolled closed to reclaimation works where Chinese robbed our Reefs, man made Island is never recognized by rules of international law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _
> 
> Le Ba Hung, oversea Vietnamese, commander of USS Lassen warship.


Obama is very smart to send this war Lassen ship with her great Commander to challenge big mouth Chinese. So what ? What can you do ? Only bully small poor fishing boat. 

US said : "...a small fishing ship or a strong destroyer all have the same right on the international sea..." and US acted to make it happen. Bravo US. Chinese said A and they do B. Nowaday, it is really crazy to listen Chinese. In fact when I read newspapaper, what Chinese say, even Xi Jinping, I usually ignor because they just talk for fun, never do or do totally differently. Poor them.


----------



## TaiShang

terranMarine said:


> The main goal for the Pinoys and these Viets have always been: US will stop China's land reclamations and constructions. If the only thing the US does is sending recon planes or ships for patrol what has actually been achieved? None of these objectives  , other than yup we Americans can come and go as we please in International waters.
> 
> The above animals go nuts jumping with joy for such an accomplishment. Point taken, now we get back to work once again. What is the US gonna do once we launch our Southern ADIZ?  Or what are the Viets expecting the Americans gonna do on their behalf?



ADIZ over SCS? Nothing more than what they did with ADIZ over ECS.

It is usually like this:

1. China changes the reality on the ground.
2. Small countries get sad and angry.
3. US pulls a stunt that is inconclusive and has nothing to do with the new reality on the ground
4. Small countries get super excited.
5. The stunts is over. The US goes back where it comes from.
6. Small powers slowly forget about it.
7. China changes another reality on the ground.
8. Small countries get sad and angry.
9. ...

So long as it buys us time, our construction and build-up continues, I am fine with this -- US harasses, China responses back, dispatches some vessels, the US gets lost until the next time.

It is couple of months between these incidents, which is good enough a window of opportunity to build carriers on the SCS.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Dungeness

Rechoice said:


> Islands were drawn closer to our mainland, to demonstrate that Islands do belong to us, Vietnam.



It would have saved both of us a lot of troubles if you could actually pull all those islands closer to Vietnam.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## terranMarine

TaiShang said:


> ADIZ over SCS? Nothing more than what they did with ADIZ over ECS.
> 
> It is usually like this:
> 
> 1. China changes the reality on the ground.
> 2. Small countries get sad and angry.
> 3. US pulls a stunt that is inconclusive and has nothing to do with the new reality on the ground
> 4. Small countries get super excited.
> 5. The stunts is over. The US goes back where it comes from.
> 6. Small powers slowly forget about it.
> 7. China changes another reality on the ground.
> 8. Small countries get sad and angry.
> 9. ...
> 
> So long as it buys us time, our construction and build-up continues, I am fine with this US harasses, China responses back, dispatches some vessels, the US gets lost until the next time.
> 
> It is couple of months between these incidents, which is good enough a window of opportunity to build stationary carriers on the SCS.



And this is how we play weiqi, US can only repeat the same move over and over again while China gain more grounds as time goes by.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Solomon2

Zsari said:


> China is the first claimant to the region in the modern era when nation like Philippine and Vietnam were still colonies of the west. Especially compare to Philippine whose border is well defined under the Paris Treaty between Spain and the US that excludes it from any of the islands in the South China Sea, Chinese claim are much stronger.
> Beyond that, there is the Japanese occupation, which by Treaty of Taipei with ROC it has relinquished all control over the islands in SCS. And further back, the Chinese-Vietnamese Boundary convention in 1887 signed with the French also confirmed Qing's ownership of the Spratly and Paracel islands.


I don't think this is China's position, that it is "first claimant." Rather, China's position is that these areas are China's and that other claims don't exist. This makes resolving the issue impossible - which, in my opinion, is what the CCP wants right now.


----------



## TaiShang

terranMarine said:


> And this is how we play weiqi, US can only repeat the same move over and over again while China gain more grounds as time goes by.





The point is never let the frog know that the water is heating up to the level of incapacitating it.

I see this recent US move as a strategic one to take the extra air that was culminated over time inside some VN-JP-PH right wingers/nationalists. Sort of a safe-valve. 

As a great power of commitments and hard alliances, the US has to do that from time to time.

But, when it comes to real action, the US often falls short of actual delivery in the face of a great power/near equal.

The best historical case is what has been going on in Syria. I am not even bringing up the Ukraine, Iranian nuclear or DPRK issues.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## xunzi

anon45 said:


> sure continue installing defences, but these islands are of symbolic value only, in a serious conflict they would be quickly resurfaced. Think of them as stationary carriers. Useful against those without the means to retaliate.


We will speed up our build up. No need to make a big deal out of nothing especially it is our territory. Why can't we build in our territory? It makes no sense to anyone looking at this.. Those islands will be useful to gather intelligence in time of war against all kinds of enemy. There are indeed a good stationary carriers that are unsinkable.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Dungeness

Rechoice said:


> China was ruled by Manchus before. You lost your independence from 1644 to 1912. Nine dashed claim of China in 1948 is to late and baseless.





Rechoice said:


> In the past the distance is relative. There is enough to demonstrated that Hoang Sa and Truong Sa is territory of Vietnam.
> 
> 
> 
> When our Emperor Minh Mang ruled Vietnam, Chinese were slaves of Manchurian. Minh Mang is descent of Nguyen Kim, he is Kinh Vietnamese.
> 
> Nguyễn Kim - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




We mark Hainan island as Vietnem on the map, is it enough to demonstrate Vietnam belong to China?


----------



## EAsian

This is just a test,they will come again.Building more construction won't stop them.I don't know why some people keep mentioning about the construction.It don't have much to do what the US is doing.


----------



## xunzi

mike2000 is back said:


> To be honest, the U.S should also give some space to China at least in Chinas own immediate shores. The U.S is already the dominant naval power in Asia,nobody can contest that not anytime soon. So i dont think giving some little space to the Chinese will do much harm. Afterall, its rather bad for a big country not to even be able to assert its infleunce in its own immediate shores.
> Think both countries should agree on some way to resolve this dispute that will be benefit both sides and the region as a whole. Afterall, last time i checked i was shocked to find out that even Vietnam controls more territory in the SCS/spratlys islands than the Chinese by farrrr. Lol


They said we can't build on our territory, can you believe that, my Mikey friend? LOL The world can see the US is just a bully, stopping other countries from exerting their territorial rights that are grant to all peaceful loving state. LOL


----------



## AZADPAKISTAN2009

China should send ships to Cuba


----------



## terranMarine

TaiShang said:


> The point is never let the frog know that the water is heating up to the level of incapacitating it.
> 
> I see this recent US move as a strategic one to take the extra air that was culminated over time inside some VN-JP-PH right wingers/nationalists. Sort of a safe-valve.
> 
> As a great power of commitments and hard alliances, the US has to do that from time to time.
> 
> But, when it comes to real action, the US often falls short of actual delivery in the face of a great power/near equal.
> 
> The best historical case is what has been going on in Syria. I am not even bringing up the Ukraine, Iranian nuclear or DPRK issues.



The Russians are chess masters, their actions in Syria is a brilliant aggressive move. The US can only stand by as the terrorists are bombed to shreds. I guess the lack of American action in Georgia, Crimea, DPRK has put a huge dent on US image so that's why they feel it's necessary to send 1 destroyer and not the whole fleet. Twenty years ago when the risk of war was high between Mainland and Taiwan the US send the whole fleet to warn China and slapped Chen in the face telling him to STFU and no independence declaration. This time instead of a warning in the shape of an armada, only 1 destroyer sailed the area being trailed by 2 Chinese warships. Mark my words in 2-3 decades from today we will have a full fleet of modernized destroyers, stealth fighters, better subs and naval armada of our own.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## EAsian

I don't know why some people keep mentioning about we should keep the construction in the islands.It don't have much to do what the US is doing.
Do US have a plan to take over those islands?
Maybe changing the point into the construction will make them feel good?


----------



## gambit

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> China should send ships to Cuba


Excellent idea. Since Cuba is well on the way to becoming an unofficial US state, we will benefit from visits by the PLAN.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Thəorətic Muslim

Zsari said:


> There is no written rule defining the freedom of navigation.



Article 87(1). But if your questioning the verbatim definition of 'Navigation' then yes it is defined in definition. 



Zsari said:


> And yes you can say everyone plays by the same rule, that if US can conduct military drills in China's EEZ, then China can as well vice versa, but China doesn't want to conduct military drill anywhere near the US, nor does it want the US to so so in its own backyard.



Carry a big stick. 

To compare the US with the UK is childish in itself, one's past it's prime and it's only running on fumes while the other has a few decades to go depending on leadership. 

The Spartys aren't recognized as Chinese Territory, if they were the Chinese would have the 12 mile territorial claim around them. This is the real dispute.


----------



## BuddhaPalm

U.S. Navy Tests China Over Sea Claims - WSJ

Angry China shadows U.S. warship near man-made islands| Reuters

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## kawaraj

mike2000 is back said:


> To be honest, the U.S should also give some space to China at least in Chinas own immediate shores. The U.S is already the dominant naval power in Asia,nobody can contest that not anytime soon. So i dont think giving some little space to the Chinese will do much harm. Afterall, its rather bad for a big country not to even be able to assert its infleunce in its own immediate shores.
> Think both countries should agree on some way to resolve this dispute that will be benefit both sides and the region as a whole. Afterall, last time i checked i was shocked to find out that even Vietnam controls more territory in the SCS/spratlys islands than the Chinese by farrrr. Lol



You make very good point. The US just won't tolerate China in its own shoreline. This is a pure humiliation yet the Chinese navy's weak stance underscore their cowardness.

I heard people are jumping about their Chinese dream? A small incident can make you feel like back in 1990s your days of being bullied. It's hard to imagine a might industrial nation(the largest actually) like China is making such stupid mistakes. You should get some inspiration from Russia. You weak response could make Putin looks downing on you.

EAsian could be the only sane Chinese member in the forum. Others look like a bunch of braggart boy showing off your economic wonders on daily basis(what a shame). Remember those wonders and wealth made by your people's hard work only turn into other's prey if you can not defend your interest.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## xunzi

EAsian said:


> This is just a test,they will come again.Building more construction won't stop them.I don't know why some people keep mentioning about the construction.It don't have much to do what the US is doing.


They come, we welcome them. This is a cold war going on here where both sides will militarize and once the shot fire, hell will break lose. THAT is the main reason why we need to speed up our military modernization and build up on those islands and our surrounding capability in anticipation of war with the US in a future showdown. The US knows it, we know it. On the outside, nothing will happen but we are targeting one another. The question is remain, are they giving us enough time for build up for that future fight?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## terranMarine

xunzi said:


> They come, we welcome them. This is a cold war going on here where both sides will militarize and once the shot fire, hell will break lose. THAT is the main reason why we need to speed up our military modernization and build up on those islands and our surrounding capability in anticipation of war with the US in a future showdown. The US knows it, we know it. On the outside, nothing will happen but we are targeting one another. The question is remain, are they giving us enough time for build up for that future fight?



There's no doubt we will win this passive war , our economies are intertwined, we are the world factory, we are the biggest consumer market for US companies like Boeing, we already are considered like a peer power in many military strength. It's unthinkable the US wants to initiate a war with China.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## xunzi

terranMarine said:


> There's no doubt we will win this passive war , our economies are intertwined, we are the world factory, we are the biggest consumer market for US companies like Boeing, we already are considered like a peer power in many military strength. It's unthinkable the US wants to initiate a war with China.


They want to initiate war with us. It is up to our patience to remain calm and compose to deal with this threat. Until we are ready, we don't give that opportunity to them. The world can see that we are defending our territorial rights so to speak. Also let not underestimate them. When we strike, it has to be a surprise. Xi called for speeding up modernization is a must. The Chinese people need to prepare mentally and physically to overcome the challenge ahead.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ahtan_china

hoangsa said:


> Obama is very smart to send this war Lassen ship with her great Commander to challenge big mouth Chinese. So what ? What can you do ? Only bully small poor fishing boat.
> 
> US said : "...a small fishing ship or a strong destroyer all have the same right on the international sea..." and US acted to make it happen. Bravo US. Chinese said A and they do B. Nowaday, it is really crazy to listen Chinese. In fact when I read newspapaper, what Chinese say, even Xi Jinping, I usually ignor because they just talk for fun, never do or do totally differently. Poor them.


Good! you are super man.


----------



## EAsian

xunzi said:


> They want to initiate war with us. It is up to our patience to remain calm and compose to deal with this threat. Until we are ready, we don't give that opportunity to them. The world can see that we are defending our territorial rights so to speak. Also let not underestimate them. When we strike, it has to be a surprise. Xi called for speeding up modernization is a must. The Chinese people need to prepare mentally and physically to overcome the challenge ahead.


There will be no war,how ridiculous,lol.Building more construction will just make you feel good,it won't drive out US ships. Because all we need is just let some ships ram the destroyer.Not like China have the guts to lauch the missile from aircraft or those island to destroy them.
In the end of all,no matter how much you spent on those islands,it won't help China to stop US intrusion at all if you don't act more seriously.

Some Chinese are fine with that US warships passing our territorial waters,saying that won't change anything.That is brain dead and ridiculous.How about let US ships passing Shanghai and Tianjin freely？Will that change anything？

I have seen all kind of execuse to cover the coward government these days,most of them will make people laugh.


----------



## Yizhi

EAsian said:


> There will be no war,how ridiculous,lol.Building more construction will just make you feel good,it won't drive out US ships. Because all we need is just let some ships ram the destroyer.Not like China have the guts to lauch the missile from aircraft or those island to destroy them.
> In the end of all,no matter how much you spent on those islands,it won't help China to stop US intrusion at all if you don't act more seriously.
> 
> Some Chinese are fine with that US warships passing our territorial waters,saying that won't change anything.That is brain dead and ridiculous.
> 
> I have seen all kind of execuse to cover the coward government,most of them will make peop laugh.


so you want us to bomb sth. just to prove we have 'guts'?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EAsian

Yizhi said:


> so you want us to bomb sth. just to prove we have 'guts'?


You haven't read my post，have you？I don't want China to bomb US，And I think it's not gonna happen.


----------



## Nan Yang

terranMarine said:


> The Russians are chess masters, their actions in Syria is a brilliant aggressive move. The US can only stand by as the terrorists are bombed to shreds. I guess the lack of American action in Georgia, Crimea, DPRK has put a huge dent on US image so that's why they feel it's necessary to send 1 destroyer and not the whole fleet. Twenty years ago when the risk of war was high between Mainland and Taiwan the US send the whole fleet to warn China and slapped Chen in the face telling him to STFU and no independence declaration. This time instead of a warning in the shape of an armada, only 1 destroyer sailed the area being trailed by 2 Chinese warships. Mark my words in 2-3 decades from today we will have a full fleet of modernized destroyers, stealth fighters, better subs and naval armada of our own.


China actually sent the Aegis Type 052C guided missile destroyer _Lanzhou_ and the _Sovremennyy. There was also another report of aircraft involved. That's a lot of fire power_

China sends message by having destroyers shadow US ship past islands | Asia Times

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## xunzi

EAsian said:


> There will be no war,how ridiculous,lol.Building more construction will just make you feel good,it won't drive out US ships. Because all we need is just let some ships ram the destroyer.Not like China have the guts to lauch the missile from aircraft or those island to destroy them.
> In the end of all,no matter how much you spent on those islands,it won't help China to stop US intrusion at all if you don't act more seriously.
> 
> Some Chinese are fine with that US warships passing our territorial waters,saying that won't change anything.That is brain dead and ridiculous.How about let US ships passing Shanghai and Tianjin freely？Will that change anything？
> 
> I have seen all kind of execuse to cover the coward government these days,most of them will make people laugh.


Having gut is not about shooting someone without a legitimate reason. Do you think the US have the gut to shoot at us when we took over Scarborough Shoal? I don't see this bravado talk, the fake tough man talk coming from our American friends. Why? I tell you why. It is because real war aren't fought by fake tough talk. 

As far as what you said about this US passing in our coastal territorial water, that is not going to happen because the US knows it's not a gray area and not to mess with. So this fake tough talk means nothing from you.

Like I said many times, track them, harass, and monitor their ships over the gray area.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TaiShang

*South China Sea Fleet conducts confrontation drill*
*2015-10-28*






Soldiers ride in boats from a destroyer to conduct a visit, board, search and seizure training exercise aboard a simulated enemy vessel. Recently, a guided-missile destroyer flotilla under the South China Sea Fleet of the PLA Navy organized its warships to conduct a realistic confrontation training exercise, including such subjects as formation offense and defense, visit, board, search and seizure, anti-shore firing at night and anti-aircraft firing in complex electromagnetic environment.




















Guided-missile destroyers sail in a sea area of the South China Sea during a confrontation drill. Recently, a guided-missile destroyer flotilla under the South China Sea Fleet of the PLA Navy organized its warships to conduct a realistic confrontation training exercise, including such subjects as formation offense and defense, visit, board, search and seizure, anti-shore firing at night and anti-aircraft firing in complex electromagnetic environm

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## EAsian

xunzi said:


> Having gut is not about shooting someone without a legitimate reason. Do you think the US have the gut to shoot at us when we took over Scarborough Shoal? I don't see this bravado talk, the fake tough man talk coming from our American friends. Why? I tell you why. It is because real war aren't fought by fake tough talk.
> 
> As far as what you said about this US passing in our coastal territorial water, that is not going to happen because the US knows it's not a gray area and not to mess with. So this fake tough talk means nothing from you.
> 
> Like I said many times, track them, harass, and monitor their ships over the gray area.


Have I said China should shot someone in my post？Have you really look my post through？


----------



## xunzi

EAsian said:


> You haven't read my post，have you？I don't want China to bomb US，And I think it's not gonna happen.


We will bomb them when they infringe on the non-gray area.



EAsian said:


> Have I said China should shot someone in my post？Have you really look my post through？


Your post consists of wanting us to shoot them to show the "fake tough guy" posture or what else do you want us to do? Why don't you tell us what is the right thing to do here instead of badmouthing us for not shooting the boat.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

xunzi said:


> We will bomb them when they infringe on the non-gray area.
> 
> 
> Your post consists of wanting us to shoot them to show the "fake tough guy" posture or what else do you want us to do? Why don't you tell us what is the right thing to do here instead of badmouthing us for not shooting the boat.



When CPC wanna play with the time, then people will label them as coward.

Now if CPC is serious about to shoot something, then the same people will again accuse them for causing more troubles.

Yep, CPC must always be wrong in someone's mind.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Shotgunner51

TaiShang said:


> *After the show, it's time for US destroyer to leave*
> Published: 2015-10-27 17:38:43
> 
> According to Reuters and the Wall Street Journal, the US Navy sent the guided-missile destroyer USLassen within 12 nautical miles of islands built by China in the South China Sea. US officials claimed that the action is aimed at safeguarding the freedom of navigation and did not target China. The patrols could also be conducted around features that Vietnam and the Philippines have built up in the South China Sea. According to the US side, the action has been approved by President Barack Obama, but with no notification for China.
> 
> Washington hinted long ago that it would send ships within 12 nautical miles of China's islands, *but it didn't say explicitly what it would do.* The US said the action would last several hours. According to Western media, Chinese navy ships are closely watching the Lassen. The Pentagon is obviously provoking China. *It is time to test the wisdom and determination of the Chinese people.*
> 
> We should stay calm.* If we feel disgraced and utter some furious words, it will only make the US achieve its goal of irritating us.*
> 
> We should analyze the actual condition of the US harassment.* It seems that the US only wants to display its presence as it didn't raise the imprudent demand that China stops island-building.* It has no intention to launch a military clash with China.* It is just the US' political show. *The UN Convention of the Law of the Sea provides three categories. The first is islands, which are naturally formed, habitable areas above water at high tide, and are therefore entitled to 12 nautical miles of territorial waters and a 200 nautical mile exclusive economic zones (EEZs). The second is reefs that have portions above water at low tide, and are uninhabitable, which have territorial waters but no EEZs. Finally, completely submerged "low tide elevations" have no territorial waters.
> 
> *The islands and reefs in the Nansha Islands under the control of the Chinese mainland belong to the latter two categories. China did not elaborate whether it will expand its territorial seas after land construction. *This is where the ambiguity of the international law. *In addition, China hasn't announced its territorial baseline in the South China Sea*, making the legal meaning of Sino-US contention in the South China Sea vague.
> 
> China and the US have no conflicting views over the international law.* Instead, the two are competing with each other over the rules and orders in the South China Sea.* Beijing's construction work in the area is completely legal, and there is nothing Washington can blame it for. Yet, from Washington's perspective, the geopolitical situation in the area will be changed following China's island reclamation. Beijing may seize the advantage to control the Nansha Islands and their adjacent seas. The US also conjectures that China will gain strategic pivots for power projection to the south in the future. Therefore, Washington, annoyed and anxious, has taken actions in order to balance Beijing's clout and to consolidate its dominance in the South China Sea.
> 
> *It has to be noticed that China has already carried out construction work in the area. This is the concrete achievements Beijing has gained. Completing building the islands still remains as a major task for China in the future. At present, no country, the US included, is able to obstruct Beijing's island reclamation in the region.*
> 
> In face of the US harassment, Beijing should *deal with Washington tactfully* and *prepare for the worst. *This can convince the White House that China, despite its unwillingness, is not frightened to fight a war with the US in the region, and is determined to safeguard its national interests and dignity.
> 
> Beijing ought to carry out anti-harassment operations. *We should first track the US warships.* If they, instead of passing by, stop for further actions, it is necessary for us to launch electronic interventions, and even send out warships, lock them by fire-control radar and fly over the US vessels.
> 
> Chinese should be aware that the US harassment is only a common challenge in China's rise. *We should regard it with calm and be confident of our government and troops.* It is certain that the Chinese government, ordering the land reclamation, is able and determined to safeguard the islands. *China is gradually recovering its justified rights in the South China Sea. *China has not emphasized the "12 nautical miles." It is the US that helps us to build and reinforce this concept. Then, it is fine for us to accept the "12 nautical miles" and we have no intention to accept 13 or more than 13 nautical miles.
> 
> @Martian2 , @Shotgunner51 , @terranMarine , @Jlaw , @xunzi , @Yizhi , @Kyle Sun , @AndrewJin , @cirr , @cnleio , @Chinese-Dragon , @tranquilium




This incident does expose the need for new countermeasure, something after an initial but ineffective "warning" or "chasing off", but before last option of "firing the first shot". An example is "ramming" used by Soviet Navy in Black Sea.





In February 1988 the USS Yorktown CG48 was rammed by a Soviet Naval vessel in Black Sea.
Everyone backed off after the ram _*"as usual"*_, quoted by a crew on-board, the incident didn't escalate to exchange of fire.
Soviet Ships rams USS Yorktown in the Black Sea - CNN iReport​
My recommendation is PLAN (and/or other maritime law enforcement branches) should develop protocols accordingly, maybe even purposely built assets, so that more non-lethal options of different intensity levels are available to counter similar incident before using the last option of "fire".

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## xunzi

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> When CPC wanna play with the time, then people will label them as coward.
> 
> Now if CPC is serious about to shoot something, then the same people will again accuse them for causing more troubles.
> 
> Yep, CPC must always be wrong in someone's mind.


I can't believe that guy wants us to shoot the boat to send the "fake tough guy" posture. LOL If we don't shoot, they call us coward. If we shoot, they call us troublemaker. I think we can't really win no matter what. People will always have double standard against us.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## EAsian

xunzi said:


> We will bomb them when they infringe on the non-gray area.
> 
> 
> Your post consists of wanting us to shoot them to show the "fake tough guy" posture or what else do you want us to do? Why don't you tell us what is the right thing to do here instead of badmouthing us for not shooting the boat.


Since you didn't really looked my post，Then I repeat myself again.Our ships should ram into their destroyer like what Soviet Union have done to US ships in its territorial waters instead of learning from what Japan have done.This is a stategic test and an open humilation of China，if china don't act strong，they will never stop their patrol.



xunzi said:


> I can't believe that guy wants us to shoot the boat to send the "fake tough guy" posture. LOL If we don't shoot, they call us coward. If we shoot, they call us troublemaker. I think we can't really win no matter what. People will always have double standard against us.


Who said we shoud shoot at them？In which sentence I have said that？

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Cossack25A1

Nihonjin1051 said:


> What we in the naval community are surprised at is the Chinese' hypocritical response here.
> 
> And rightfully so.



Like the _PDF China Platoon_, the government in Mainland China thinks they have free passes on everything, even if it means becoming a hypocrite.


----------



## Yizhi

EAsian said:


> You haven't read my post，have you？I don't want China to bomb US，And I think it's not gonna happen.


you know US doing it just to make guys like you to be angry at govt, right? you are playing their game.

unless you come up with a better counter measure instead of saying 'govt coward', this is what we have. not pleasant, but deal with it.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

xunzi said:


> I can't believe that guy wants us to shoot the boat to send the "fake tough guy" posture. LOL If we don't shoot, they call us coward. If we shoot, they call us troublemaker. I think we can't really win no matter what. People will always have double standard against us.



China the only de facto challenger of the US is the "coward", while his beloved Japan/South Korea as the little US lapdogs are the true Northeast Asian superheroes.

Can you understand the funny logic of those China/CPC haters?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## EAsian

Yizhi said:


> you know US doing it just to make guys like you to be angry at govt, right? you are playing their game.
> 
> unless you come up with a better counter measure instead of saying 'govt coward', this is what we have. not pleasant, but deal with it.


I have said it，haven't I？You just don't look.


----------



## xunzi

Shotgunner51 said:


> This incident does expose the need for new countermeasure, something after an initial but ineffective "warning" or "chasing off", but before last option of "firing the first shot". An example is "ramming" used by Soviet Navy in Black Sea.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In February 1988 the USS Yorktown CG48 was rammed by a Soviet Naval vessel in Black Sea.
> Everyone backed off after the ram _*"as usual"*_, quoted by a crew on-board, the incident didn't escalate to exchange of fire.
> Soviet Ships rams USS Yorktown in the Black Sea - CNN iReport​
> My recommendation is PLAN (and/or other maritime law enforcement branches) should develop protocols accordingly, maybe even purposely built assets, so that more non-lethal options of different intensity levels are available to counter similar incident.


That is actually a very good recommendation and worthy to talk about. The PLAN need to sit together and carve out a protocols to deal with this aggressive move by our American friend. This is something that will come. It is not something that happen surprisingly. We know they will come and more will come. So I advise we install missile defense on our islands and saturated the area with civilian boats and arm boats to make their trespassing more uncomfortable.



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> China the only de facto challenger of the US is the "coward", while his beloved Japan/South Korea as the little US lapdogs are the true Northeast Asian superheroes.
> 
> Can you understand the funny logic of those China/CPC haters?


Yeah, I really don't understand the stuff these jokers are saying sometime. The lapdogs are the heroes, meanwhile the defender of Asia is the coward. It makes no sense to me. But as you know, these jokers can't be taken seriously since they are here just to annoy us rather than providing any good input. That's why I spent more times making fun out of them than taking them seriously to be honest.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## TaiShang

terranMarine said:


> The Russians are chess masters, their actions in Syria is a brilliant aggressive move. The US can only stand by as the terrorists are bombed to shreds. I guess the lack of American action in Georgia, Crimea, DPRK has put a huge dent on US image so that's why they feel it's necessary to send 1 destroyer and not the whole fleet. Twenty years ago when the risk of war was high between Mainland and Taiwan the US send the whole fleet to warn China and slapped Chen in the face telling him to STFU and no independence declaration. This time instead of a warning in the shape of an armada, only 1 destroyer sailed the area being trailed by 2 Chinese warships. Mark my words in 2-3 decades from today we will have a full fleet of modernized destroyers, stealth fighters, better subs and naval armada of our own.



Exactly. That's why I keep reminding that contexts are as important as facts. 

In the larger historical context, the progress made is obvious. 

The world not only ignores the US rhetoric of freedom (of anything, be it an abstract idea of democracy or maritime navigation), but also ridicules it. 

Has the world given a crap about US complaints over China-Russia veto on US military action against Syria? 

Even Europeans applauded the action because they are fed up with being dragged into wars and conflicts orchestrated by the US regime elites. 

The present situation in SCS is a matter of soft management as well as hard power projection. Without being dragged into an open conflict, China continues to soft-manage the US by responding its aggressions firmly.



Shotgunner51 said:


> This incident does expose the need for new countermeasure, something after an initial but ineffective "warning" or "chasing off", but before last option of "firing the first shot". An example is "ramming" used by Soviet Navy in Black Sea.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In February 1988 the USS Yorktown CG48 was rammed by a Soviet Naval vessel in Black Sea.
> Everyone backed off after the ram _*"as usual"*_, quoted by a crew on-board, the incident didn't escalate to exchange of fire.
> Soviet Ships rams USS Yorktown in the Black Sea - CNN iReport​
> My recommendation is PLAN (and/or other maritime law enforcement branches) should develop protocols accordingly, maybe even purposely built assets, so that more non-lethal options of different intensity levels are available to counter similar incident before using the last option of "fire".



That's exactly what has been suggested by the Navy spokesperson the other day. I guess China is preparing new contingency measures.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## EAsian

Shotgunner51 said:


> This incident does expose the need for new countermeasure, something after an initial but ineffective "warning" or "chasing off", but before last option of "firing the first shot". An example is "ramming" used by Soviet Navy in Black Sea.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In February 1988 the USS Yorktown CG48 was rammed by a Soviet Naval vessel in Black Sea.
> Everyone backed off after the ram _*"as usual"*_, quoted by a crew on-board, the incident didn't escalate to exchange of fire.
> Soviet Ships rams USS Yorktown in the Black Sea - CNN iReport​
> My recommendation is PLAN (and/or other maritime law enforcement branches) should develop protocols accordingly, maybe even purposely built assets, so that more non-lethal options of different intensity levels are available to counter similar incident before using the last option of "fire".


We won't fire at them.This is exactly what I keep saying in every one of my post.We should ram into their destroyer yesterday，not waiting for the next time.Someone just keep pretending they haven't seen it because I call Chinese government coward.


----------



## terranMarine

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> China the only de facto challenger of the US is the "coward", while his beloved Japan/South Korea as the little US lapdogs are the true Northeast Asian superheroes.
> 
> Can you understand the funny logic of those China/CPC haters?



Didn't he want Chinese to be more like those Kimchi freaks so we can have soft power?  Looking at how those Kimchi dress show how mighty they are and China in his eyes is a coward

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

xunzi said:


> Yeah, I really don't understand the stuff these jokers are saying sometime. The lapdogs are the heroes, meanwhile the defender of Asia is the coward. It makes no sense to me. But as you know, these jokers can't be taken seriously since they are here just to annoy us rather than providing any good input. That's why I spent more times making fun out of them than taking them seriously to be honest.



In fact, CPC is ready to fight at anytime, because they always don't believe that their enemies would give them more time to get prepared. CPC is always dealing with the reality and to prepare for the worst scenario, and they won't play with the luck. If you read their history of the geopolitical conflicts, then you will get this point.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## TaiShang

EAsian said:


> We won't fire at them.This is exactly what I keep saying in every one of my post.



This is probably on the line. In the first try, China simply watched the vessel pass the national territories. Next time, it will be another level of engagement, short of firing the first shot.

Obviously, China tries not to escalate the issue because the US is a non-party. But, if the US insists and repeats, rest assured, it will be confronted. 

According to Xinhua: "The Chinese navy has warned that further forays by the U.S. naval vessel into the waters claimed by China in the South China Sea may "trigger eventualities." "

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## xunzi

EAsian said:


> We won't fire at them.This is exactly what I keep saying in every one of my post.


Why should we fire at them? Do you even know the area the US operated in, from a legal standpoint is a gray area and must be EXTREMELY cautious because any move can be perceived by the international friends as aggression. This is why it is important we need to know which area we will allow passage and which area we will not. This is the type of gray area where the response should be shadowing. If it happens in a non-gray area, then at least the world knows the reason we shoot is the right thing to do and the world will applause us for defending against US's lawbreaking international norm.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

terranMarine said:


> Didn't he want Chinese to be more like those Kimchi freaks so we can have soft power?  Looking at how those Kimchi dress show how mighty they are and China in his eyes is a coward



Those Kimchi freaks are living in another planet.

Even many South Korean netizens nowadays are feeling ashamed when comparing their impotent country to China.


----------



## xunzi

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> In fact, CPC is ready to fight at anytime, because they always don't believe that their enemies would give them more time to get prepared. CPC is always dealing with the reality and to prepare for the worst scenario, and they won't play with the luck. If you read their history of the geopolitical conflicts, then you will get this point.


I'm sure they will fight. They have to. Protecting territorial integrity is the main job of the PLA. But I think unless the US continues to aggressively threaten our territorial rights, there won't be any fight. Now if they do this over and over, disregarding our territorial rights, then Chinese people must be prepare mentally and physically for the worse. And I'm talking about the worse, stack up water underground.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EAsian

xunzi said:


> Why should we fire at them? Do you even know the area the US operated in, from a legal standpoint is a gray area and must be EXTREMELY cautious because any move can be perceived by the international friends as aggression. This is why it is important we need to know which area we will allow passage and which area we will not. This is the type of gray area where the response should be shadowing. If it happens in a non-gray area, then at least the world knows the reason we shoot is the right thing to do and the world will applause us for defending against US's lawbreaking international norm.


Look，I haven't said we should try to shoot at them，And I haven't said that because we don't shoot them，so our government is coward.What I have meant is，since we don't shoot them，then building construction in those island won't help us to stop the US intrusion.We already have sevaral ships chased them，so why not just rum in like what SU have done？If we don't act more seriously，they won't stop.You should check my post carefully before replying to me.


----------



## terranMarine

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Those Kimchi freaks are living in another planet.
> 
> Even many South Korean netizens nowadays are feeling ashamed when comparing their impotent country to China.



I even wonder if that dude is even Chinese, look at the Russians that's how a mighty military power looks like REAL MEN.
Now he complains China is a pussy but doesn't think so when he suggested we dress like those Kimchis?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## EAsian

Someone keep relating me to koreans.I don't know why.This is really funny.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

xunzi said:


> I'm sure they will fight. They have to. Protecting territorial integrity is the main job of the PLA. But I think unless the US continues to aggressively threaten our territorial rights, there won't be any fight. Now if they do this over and over, disregarding our territorial rights, then Chinese people must be prepare mentally and physically for the worse. And I'm talking about the worse, stack up water underground.



The time is on our side, and just to make sure that those young hot blooded Chinese don't fall into the provocation by those anti-China trolls into believing that CPC has back down.

And remember soon Madame Merkel will come to China for an important deal, same for Monsieur Hollande.

China is now enjoying the real fruitful outcomes, not desperately trying to win the face.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## terranMarine

EAsian said:


> Someone keep relating me to koreans.I don't know why.This is really funny.


We all remember you have a fetish for KPOP

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## TaiShang

terranMarine said:


> I even wonder if that dude is even Chinese, look at the Russians that's how a mighty military power looks like REAL MEN.
> Now he complains China is a pussy but doesn't think so when he suggested we dress like those Kimchis?



He might be a false flag. Using emotional titles such as "coward" sound very much like one group of people.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EAsian

terranMarine said:


> We all remember you have a fetish for KPOP


Well，I don't really care what you and Chinesetiger think about me.I don't want to explain more.Just keep going.


----------



## terranMarine

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The time is on our side, and just to make sure that those young hot blooded Chinese don't fall into the provocation by those anti-China trolls into believing that CPC has back down.
> 
> And remember soon Madame Merkel will come to China for an important deal, same for Monsieur Hollande.
> 
> China is now enjoying the real fruitful outcomes, not desperately trying to win the face.



Psychological warfare, China keep her head cool and do what it does best: BUILD BUILD and BUILD

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## EAsian

TaiShang said:


> He might be a false flag. Using emotional titles such as "coward" sound very much like one group of people.


Then why not ram into the US destroyer yesterday？Waiting for the next time？


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

terranMarine said:


> Psychological warfare, China keep her head cool and do what it does best: BUILD BUILD and BUILD



If our enemies can only expect to launch a psychological warfare against us, then it must mean they are really becoming weak and desperate.



EAsian said:


> Then why not ram into the US destroyer yesterday？Waiting for the next time？



Do you think the DDG will just stay there and let other boat to ram it?

USS Cowpens Incident Reveals Strategic Mistrust Between U.S. and China | The Diplomat

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EAsian

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> If our enemies can only expect to launch a psychological warfare against us, then it must mean they are really becoming weak and desperate.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you think the DDG will just stay there and let other boat to ram it?
> 
> USS Cowpens Incident Reveals Strategic Mistrust Between U.S. and China | The Diplomat


Of course we can if we want，US have informed us months ago.


----------



## TaiShang

EAsian said:


> Then why not ram into the US destroyer yesterday？Waiting for the next time？



Yes. Why not? Do we even know what really went on? You are being emotional and repetitive. I guess you made your point and it is probably the time to move on. 

It did not happen, if it were you the one in charge, we would probably be ramming into them.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## EAsian

TaiShang said:


> Yes. Why not? Do we even know what really went on? You are being emotional and repetitive. I guess you made your point and it is probably the time to move on.
> 
> It did not happen, if it were you the one in charge, we would probably be ramming into them.


That is not really an answer.


----------



## xunzi

EAsian said:


> Look，I haven't said we should try to shoot at them，And I haven't said that because we don't shoot them，so our government is coward.What I have meant is，since we don't shoot them，then building construction in those island won't help us to stop the US intrusion.We already have sevaral ships chased them，so why not just rum in like what SU have done？If we don't act more seriously，they won't stop.You should check my post carefully before replying to me.


Building construction on those islands were not intend to stop their intrusion. It is for civilian purpose with a dual purpose in military intelligence gathering. Our official policy is consistent and transparent, so you should know by now.

As far as acting more serious, that is a very ah... empty. I don't know if ramming them on first trespassing is appropriate. The SU-US have serious bad blood and the event the SU rammed the US didn't happen first time. The US did that a lot, intruding on the SU sphere to cause a response from the SU. This event is the first time they infringe on our territorial rights. Even that, like I said, it happened in a grey area so they are not dumb after all. They do this for muscle fleshing and showboating rather than a real attempt to infringe on our territory.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## TaiShang

EAsian said:


> That is not really an answer.



Your logic resembles an Indian, I am sorry.

You are being repetitive, emotional, inconclusive.

Let me give you a hint: China cannot act like a over-zealous small power. What do you really want? 

If a similar thing happened with the US, they would probably act in a similar way. Let the language of diplomacy prevail. This is the realm of nation states. Things move different from online forums.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

EAsian said:


> Of course we can if we want，US have informed us months ago.



Back in 2013, China did not hesitate to ram the USS Cowpens, but that Ticonderoga class ship just ran away at the end.

Now in 2015, why do you think that China would be afraid to ram the USS Lassen?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## EAsian

xunzi said:


> Building construction on those islands were not intend to stop their intrusion. It is for civilian purpose with a dual purpose in military intelligence gathering. Our official policy is consistent and transparent, so you should know by now.
> 
> As far as acting more serious, that is a very ah... empty. I don't know if ramming them on first trespassing is appropriate. The SU-US have serious bad blood and the event the SU rammed the US didn't happen first time. The US did that a lot, intruding on the SU sphere to cause a response from the SU. This event is the first time they infringe on our territorial rights. Even that, like I said, it happened in a grey area so they are not dumb after all. They do this for muscle fleshing and showboating rather than a real attempt to infringe on our territory.


Well，They will come over and over again until China response in a more serious way.I don't think it will be good for China.And since building construction is not really related to this event，it is no need to mention about it.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

EAsian said:


> Well，They will come over and over again until China response in a more serious way.I don't think it will be good for China.



They will always come and run away at the end.

That's their choice, we cannot prevent that.


----------



## xunzi

EAsian said:


> Well，They will come over and over again until China response in a more serious way.I don't think it will be good for China.


Until they do so, all these talks are just speculation and assumption. Big powers react based on fact, not assumption. Remember this is not simple "fake posture" for showboating. There are hundred of billion of dollar on the line here. Even the SU-US didn't have 1/10 that much money involved on the table so it was easy for SU to respond. For us, it has to take a few more try. We will wait and see...

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## EAsian

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> They will always come and run away at the end.
> 
> That's their choice, we cannot prevent that.


And you think it is OK？Sorry I don't agree with you.You should know many puppets will follow the US to patrol in our territorial waters.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

EAsian said:


> And you think it is OK？Sorry I don't agree with you.You should know many puppets will follow the US to patrol in our territorial waters.



The US destroyer can run over 35 knots, so they can run really fast in order to prevent the collision with our landing ship.

While their puppets don't have such warship to prevent the collision with our landing ship.

Also, Japan just refuses to engage into those cat/mouse games with China in the SCS.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EAsian

xunzi said:


> Until they do so, all these talks are just speculation and assumption. Big powers react based on fact, not assumption. Remember this is not simple "fake posture" for showboating. There are hundred of billion of dollar on the line here. Even the SU-US didn't have 1/10 that much money involved on the table so it was easy for SU to respond. For us, it has to take a few more try. We will wait and see...


Too passive，you just push the decision into the next time after next time.



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The US destroyer can run over 35 knots, so they can run really fast in order to prevent the collision with our landing ship.
> 
> While their puppets don't have such warship to prevent the collision with our landing ship.
> 
> Also, Japan just refuses to engage into those games with China in the SCS.


So you mean we will target in the puppet of US instead of US and let the ships of US go freely？


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

EAsian said:


> So you mean we will target in the puppet of US instead of US？



Simple, when the USN came, the PLAN tried to ram it, but they just ran away. The USS Cowpens was just a prime example, and I won't be surprised that the USS Lassen was doing the same, but they just refused to acknowledge that because of afraid of losing face in front of their little buddies.

The little buddies can also make a new attempt, but I doubt they can run away as fast as Uncle Sam.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EAsian

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Simple, when the USN came, the PLAN tried to ram it, but they just ran away. The USS Cowpens was just a prime example, and I won't be surprised that the USS Lassen was doing the same, but they just refused to acknowledge that because of afraid of losing face in front of their little buddies.
> 
> The little buddies can also make a new attempt, but I doubt they can run away as fast as Uncle Sam.


I think we can catch the USS lassen even yesterday if we have really prepared.Hope we will do better next time.


----------



## terranMarine

EAsian said:


> I think we can catch the USS lassen even yesterday if we have really prepared.Hope we will do better next time.


Get on a boat and wait for them yourself next time



Dungeness said:


> He is a vietnamese.


Yeah even Indians are not as silly as him, i intend to believe he has escaped from the zoo

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

EAsian said:


> I think we can catch the USS lassen even yesterday if we have really prepared.Hope we will do better next time.



The USS Cowpens was trying to breach into the inner circle of the Liaoning carrier battlegroup, but before of making such attempt, it got intercepted by the PLAN's landing ship. After a failed attempt to embarrass China, the PLAN just let it go.

The USS Lassen was indeed trying to again embarrass China by breaching into the 12 nautical miles, but did it succeed? Even Mr. Carter cannot answer it, and he also refuses to make any further confirmation.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EAsian

terranMarine said:


> Get on a boat and wait for them yourself next time
> 
> 
> Yeah even Indians are not as silly as him, i intend to believe he has escaped from the zoo


Give me 1 trillion every year and I will do that.


----------



## TaiShang

Update... two PLAN destroyers were sent to invite the american intruders for some Chinese wine and a round of mahjong... lol

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## terranMarine

We have a photo of 2 Chinese warships trailing behind the Lassen, can't say we didn't do nothing now can we?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## TaiShang

EAsian said:


> Give me 1 trillion every year and I will do that.



Isn't that over three times your GDP?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## terranMarine

EAsian said:


> Give me 1 trillion every year and I will do that.


Why should i give you money, you want to show your Chinese manhood in front of us here. So go show it

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

TaiShang said:


> Update... two PLAN destroyers were sent to invite the american intruders for some Chinese wine and a round of mahjong... lol



Because they want to keep propagating that CPC's China is coward and loser.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## EAsian

TaiShang said:


> Isn't that over three times your GDP?


Isn't Chinese military budget more than 1 trillion RMB？


----------



## TaiShang

EAsian said:


> Isn't Chinese military budget more than 1 trillion RMB？



Sorry if I sound trolling. It just makes no sense to keep talking over the same thing in circles.

In my view, the budget should be doubled in five years. Of course, I am telling this as a mere political scientist. From the heights of international politics and statesmanship, things must be looking a lot differently.

Even Obama had confessed that (despite that he was a Senator before becoming a President) he did not see many things in their reality before he assumed the highest chair in his speech in Cairo.

***

Via Michael Tanner:

*** GOOGLE AND THE AMERICAN/WESTERN ESTABLISHMENT CONTROLLED MSM = THE MOST POWERFUL PROPAGANDA MACHINES IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND .....

*** google and the american/western establishment mainstream medias on the american challenge of china in the south china sea ... with a navy missile destroyer .....

*** while surfing the google "news" section searching for the latest "news" on the china-usa scs fiasco, something popped out with bold relief of the utter domination of prejudiced western commentary loaded with dubious tirades against the total lack of any other sources of news for the first 10 search pages. every piece and commentator is brutally critical of china while praising the american intrusion with a machine of war as the height of upholding international law and principle .....

*** it appears that google has engineered its so called "unbiased" search engine to extract "news" items from the american/western msm first and foremost before any others. this deception has been going on for ages and the victims of google's duplicity and deviousness are going from bad to worse ... it has been used against russia, china, venezeula, bolivia or simply anyone the american finds disobedient or distasteful.....

*** make no mistake - google is not created to be a socially responsible portal and moralistic platform for the promotion of a fair and just world ... its a vile creation of the american/western powers that be to promote its hegemonic and imperialistic agenda without any regard whatsoever to laws and orders, humanity, conscience and human decency .....

*** appropriate action must be taken against their grotesque and evil activities and meted with just punishment ... **** the fake political correctness .....

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## scholseys

American military tourism at its best

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

aazidane said:


> American military tourism at its best



I know that some people have initially very high expectation for China, and they expected to kick the US a$$ every time.

However, the geopolitics is a very complicated game, and it is not always about a$$-kicking or chest thumping.

The USN also knows the existence of the DF-21D and DF-26, even more powerful weapons. They know that their warships won't last few seconds if China truly decides to launch the attack. That's why they just sent a unarmed destroyer to visit our artificial island.

But for now, the business comes to China's mind first, since anyone who is consistently reading the news related to China, they will see that China has a huge amount of deals in 2015. So China doesn't want to create the tension in the region that could overshadow the economic cooperation.

A small country can be praised as brave when it dares to protests as the US just bombed them, while China must need to prove that it has balls by kicking the US a$$ every time. So it is definitely not easy to be a superpower, especially a rising one. You have been watched by the world.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## sicsheep

jhungary said:


> Actually, according to UNCLOS, there are no different between transiting and conducting military operation. China can hold a military Drill in US EEZ as much *** the US having the same right to hold a Military Drill in China EEZ.
> 
> The definition of "Rules" is that it Applies to* EVERYBODY* and no one was in exception.
> 
> Even the US observe this "rules" even tho the US has not ratified the UNCLOS.
> 
> The problem with what you and most Chinese thinking is, since China wasn't "Around" when the rules was set, the China should not by all account respect and obey the rules and instead having their "Own" set of rules.
> 
> Well, I did not say China cannot do that, but you cannot do that and say China is not escalating anything. You can change the rules by having it heard internationally, and then when all other party agree to and ratified the amendment, then the rules can be change. You cannot unilaterally change the "rules" when you deem fits and call other aggressive. When you change the rules unilaterally, you are the party that act aggressively.
> 
> Baseline is, if you don't play nice, you automatically refused the right to call other foul.



we are the true believers of freedom of navigation, it is US who cries every time we navigate in front of you.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TaiShang

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> I know that some people have initially very high expectation for China, and they expected to kick the US a$$ every time.
> 
> However, the geopolitics is a very complicated game, and it is not always about a$$-kicking or chest thumping.
> 
> The USN also knows the existence of the DF-21D and DF-26, even more powerful weapons. They know that their warships won't last few seconds if China truly decides to launch the attack. That's why they just sent a unarmed destroyer to visit our artificial island.
> 
> But for now, the business comes to China's mind first, since anyone who is consistently reading the news related to China, they will see that China has a huge amount of deals in 2015. So China doesn't want to create the tension in the region that could overshadow the economic cooperation.
> 
> A small country can be praised as brave when it dares to protests as the US just bombed them, while China must need to prove that it has balls by kicking the US a$$ every time. So it is definitely not easy to be a superpower, especially a rising one. You have been watched by the world.



Very well said.

Economic base is the most important determinant to shape ideology and history. Without a sound economic base, one easily falls prey to stronger and capable hegemonic powers. That's also why a concrete, sound capability build-up is important in SCS. 

Adventurism is the last thing China needs. 

In fact, the US also has been rather shrewd; there are definitely other interests that they care about. 

This is a nerve game that will last for some time.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## TaiShang

sicsheep said:


> we are the true believers of freedom of navigation, it is US who cries every time we navigate in front of you.



China has upheld freedom of navigation more dearly than the US.

During the height of Iranian nuclear crisis, it was the US presence that most endangered the flow of maritime trade along the Hormuz.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## dy1022

we are keeping spank viet's ships in China's South sea!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## TaiShang

Zero_wing said:


> Oh please your just piss people off for one thing china though that since it can show its so called power people will just blindly obey but it had the opposite effect the surrounding countries are modernizing their forces and many nations are no voicing their opinions on the matter and the thing china fears is coming true the US is not Jumping in so as Japanese so you people did the strategic miscalculation and you seeing things blindly by your arrogance is showing that.



There is no country really supporting you, except the US for their ulterior motives.

You are at each other's throats with Vietnam because you also invaded and stole their island in the SCS. You will pay for that dearly once Vietnam is capable enough. Now you are too weak to directly engage each other.

The world does not give crap about your island sickness. Most people do not even know of the situation. People have their own more important headaches. Why would day lose time to worry about for some sad Pinoy?

Japanese like to encourage you to pest China because Japan has territorial disputes with all of its neighbors.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

dy1022 said:


> we are keeping spank viet's ships in China's South sea!



It is disclosed that China is cowardice , you can do nothing to counter USA.


----------



## sicsheep

boomslang said:


> Who's that ? You back in Russia ? RUSSIA......................HAHAHAHAHA !!!!



Or he could be in Syria, dropping bombs on American trained rebels, LOL

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

kawaraj said:


> You make very good point. The US just won't tolerate China in its own shoreline. This is a pure humiliation yet the Chinese navy's weak stance underscore their cowardness.
> 
> I heard people are jumping about their Chinese dream? A small incident can make you feel like back in 1990s your days of being bullied. It's hard to imagine a might industrial nation(the largest actually) like China is making such stupid mistakes. You should get some inspiration from Russia. You weak response could make Putin looks downing on you.
> 
> EAsian could be the only sane Chinese member in the forum. Others look like a bunch of braggart boy showing off your economic wonders on daily basis(what a shame). Remember those wonders and wealth made by your people's hard work only turn into other's prey if you can not defend your interest.



Russia is not exactly the most successful country out there. Back in the Soviet days (when they had something to lose) they also treaded very carefully with the US. Now Russia doesn't have much to lose, so they're going all out in a quest for revenge. China has alot to lose, which is why the key trump cards have to be held in reserve until the very last instant.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## dy1022

Rechoice said:


> It is disclosed that China is cowardice , you can do nothing to counter USA.






Chinese navy ships entered U.S. waters off Alaska - CNNPolitics.com


PLAN and PLAAF confronts US Navy at close range in SCS - USA retreats

Angry China shadows U.S. warship near man-made islands| Reuters

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## CCP

Rechoice said:


> Our warship is patrolled here nearby fake Island. ...



Well, that Vietnamese navy frigate(HQ-011) is just visiting Collins Reef/ Đảo Cô Lin with Chinese frigate 537 at that day.
(Vietnamese structure on Collins Reef)
*




*
Here is the positions of Collin Reef and Johnson Reef.
*






more pics
Chinese frigate 537. 








*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## scholseys

This is a PR stunt for the world, a battle group would have made things interesting


----------



## gambit

Looks like Australia is prepping her ships to run thru the SCS.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## CCP

gambit said:


> Looks like Australia is prepping her ships to run thru the SCS.



Any link for that?


----------



## gambit

So here are some more information about this freedom of navigation idea that soooo offends the PDF Chinese squad here...

South China Sea: U.S. not provoking China (Opinion) - CNN.com


> The Pentagon oversees dozens of freedom of navigation operations every year targeting excessive maritime claims made by countries ranging from outright antagonists to some of the United States' closest allies.
> 
> In 2014, the U.S. military used these operations to contest claims made by nearly all the countries surrounding the South China Sea, meaning not just China but also the Philippines -- a treaty ally -- and Indonesia, Malaysia and Vietnam.


Looks like China is not the only one guilty of making contestable claims of territorial waters. Anyone from partner to ally can -- and will -- be challenged by US.

Civilian ships can be bullied but not a warship. In fact, even if the US send just a coastie, any actions against that ship constitutes an attack on US sovereign soil.

So when we say we are there to ensure freedom of navigation in the SCS, everyone will believe US and not China due to history.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## CCP

gambit said:


> So here are some more information about this freedom of navigation idea that soooo offends the PDF Chinese squad here...
> 
> South China Sea: U.S. not provoking China (Opinion) - CNN.com
> 
> Looks like China is not the only one guilty of making contestable claims of territorial waters. Anyone from partner to ally can -- and will -- be challenged by US.
> 
> Civilian ships can be bullied but not a warship. In fact, even if the US send just a coastie, any actions against that ship constitutes an attack on US sovereign soil.
> 
> So when we say we are there to ensure freedom of navigation in the SCS, everyone will believe US and not China due to history.













I don't think US want China to do that to their warships.

2013, SCS , Chinese fleet and US warship


----------



## Suff Shikan

Lion's (china's) sleep is not disturbed by snoring rats (Vietnam)....

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## jhungary

Zsari said:


> It has nothing to do with playing nice or naughty. There is no written rule defining the freedom of navigation. It is however used as a red herring by the US that any Chinese objection to its conducting military exercise and espionage mission in its near shore is branded as against the freedom of navigation.
> 
> And yes you can say everyone plays by the same rule, that if US can conduct military drills in China's EEZ, then China can as well vice versa, but China doesn't want to conduct military drill anywhere near the US, nor does it want the US to so so in its own backyard. So it naturally wants to better define the rule in its favor. And how is China going to convince the US to accept that? It can't. So the only thing it can do is to deter and disrupt US action that it deems unfavorable, so as to become the norm, or an unwritten rule, just like the current interpretation on the "freedom of navigation". Until it is the US interest to better define or change the rule, that's the best China can and will do.



You did not get my point at all.

First of all, there *ARE* written rule defining the freedom of navigation. Both Navigation Right and Freedom of Navigation were defined as per UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS). While US did not sign in at the convention, the US operate on US Law of Navigation (Or US Navigation Rights) but we are talking about the former, not the later, which China belong to the former convention as a Signed and Ratified Parties.

Both navigational right and freedom of navigation is defined as per Article 87 (FON) and Article 88 (Nav Right)

But this is not my point.

My point is as follow.

China can protest or they can ignore the law by its own merit. To be honest, the only thing Chinese Government need to do is to withdrew from the UNCLOS once and for all and issue their own Navigation Right, as per US. The problem is. You can do either one but not both.

You can withdrew from the Convention, then use your own law, but then you cannot protest other being "aggressive" as you lost the right to be protected by the convention, should you choose to leave. And if you are going to do what you do unilaterally, then what do you expect on other party response?

You can protest against the US aggression, if you stick by the UNCLOS. If you think the US is the aggressor per international law, you can speak up in the international forum you belong to. But by doing so, you would be need to respect and abide to the law as we speak. Building Island on an international waterway is not permitted as per UNCLOS.

You can leave, or you can protest, but you cannot do both. Doing one will concede the right of doing the other. What Chinese Government and to some extend PDF Chinese member here doing at this moment is they are doing both.



sicsheep said:


> we are the true believers of freedom of navigation, it is US who cries every time we navigate in front of you.



Look to me it's the Chinese who are doing the crying.

South China Sea: China slams US over warship sailing near artificial islands; US ambassador 'summoned' - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
South China Sea: Beijing calls US Navy warship's route a 'provocation'
South China Sea: US Navy warship sails by China's artificial islands, says US

The US, on the other hand, just do what they want to do....They did not protest, they simply challenge it.


----------



## seven7seven

If you have to say that you're winning, then you probably are not.

A real winner is more secure and let their actions do all the talking for them. China will keep building in SCS and let the US continue peacock strutting all they want. China gets stronger every day and US soothes their fragile ego so everyone's happy right?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## jhungary

Keel said:


> You think the *yankies* dare to bomb our islands?



You just never change didn't you??

Yankee/Yank is the quite Degradtory to North American.

Quote your favourite authoritative dictionary reference - The oxford Dictionary

Yankee - definition of Yankee in English from the Oxford dictionary



> Yankee - definition of Yankee in English from the Oxford dictionary
> 
> *Definition of Yankee in English:*
> _informal
> 
> often *derogatory *An American
> *Yank 2*_


_

Yank - Oxford Dictionary
yank - definition of yank in English from the Oxford dictionary




See definition in  Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary 
Line breaks: Yank
Pronunciation:  /jaŋk/


*noun*
 informal
*1chiefly derogatory An American.*

Click to expand...


also my favorite, The racial slur database

The Racial Slur Database

_
Please do not insult any nationality again. If you have to say Vietnamese, say Vietnamese, don't say Vietcong, if you have to say American, say American, don't say Yankies or Yank or Yankee, unless you are referring to the New York Yankee, I don't understand what's the point for nicknaming nationality like you did?

Fact is there are even internet talk about banning the word Yankee in official use in the US

The Racial Slur Database - "Yankee" (Is it time to ban the 'Yankees'?)




Nihonjin1051 said:


> @jhungary @gambit im sure this would charge the boys near Virginia Beach , eh? lol.



lol. We are just doing our job.....

Nothing new about this.



Cossack25A1 said:


> Didn't they do this when the PLA sent five naval ships off the coast of Alaska last September?



Actually, I have explained on Post #174 on the differences between the PLAN sail across the 12 NM territorial limit on the Aleutian in Alaska and the US sail to within 12 NM in SCS in term of International Law.

But nobody seems to care, so here it goes again



> The different is China is not disputing the sovereignty of Aleutian Island. While the Sea in SCS is disputed. Also, the Chinese transit thru Aleutian strait through Innocent Passage, while the US transit thru planned bearing.
> 
> Under International Law of the Sea, Innocent Passage would be granted if a country transit thru another country territorial water given the bearing is for a simple transfer. For example. If one want to pass thru Panama Canal (Which is international water *DOES NOT* belong to Panama, as it was neutralized international waterway), one have to pass thru Panama Territorial water to be able to access the canal, thus an innocent bearing is granted.
> 
> International Waterway works in 3 levels.
> 
> Strait - Such as Aleutian/Bearing Strait
> Canal - Such as Suez Canal and Panama Canal
> Rivers - Some River also designated International waterway
> 
> International Waterways legal definition of International Waterways
> What Chinese did in Aleutian is completely different than what the US ship did in SCS, the Chinese have the international right to access the Aleutian strait, which mean even if they are to enter US territorial water without notified and granted permission of the American, as long as they are to transit from Aleutian to the other end and enter Russia Water, US cannot do anything to them, if US fire on Chinese ship entering Aleutian Water under innocent passage, US would have committed war crime.
> 
> On the other hand, there are no restriction on SCS as they are not Canal nor Strait that was internationalized waterway, the claim, is that they are sole territorial water of China, but by allowing the US ship to transit under constant bearing, the Chinese could be seen as relief on duty of care to their alleged border. That is not the same as entering someone else water for innocent passage to the canal or strait. It was a challenge to disputed territories.
> 
> Source: https://defence.pk/threads/u-s-navy-to-send-destroyer-within-12-miles-of-chinese-islands.405468/page-12#ixzz3prSXiuyh

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Sanchez

senheiser said:


> so how is Canadian dollar doing with low oil price? does that benefit you?



The guy is a Viet.


----------



## Slav Defence

Please,have your discussions,but without any offence.If this thread succeed in having peaceful discussions till 23 posts,then I will be getting a real good heart attack
On serious note,it is not a game.US-China needs to reconsider such cases and should sit together to resolve them.
To the thread op,he should grow up and learn that war is a bad game.If US wasted all it's economy on this,then she will eventually lost her position,a really sincere advise.Economical and regional stability comes first.
Regards

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Place Of Space

Good action, very necessary.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Place Of Space

What's going on there today?


----------



## Place Of Space

jhungary said:


> Actually, according to UNCLOS, there are no different between transiting and conducting military operation. China can hold a military Drill in US EEZ as much *** the US having the same right to hold a Military Drill in China EEZ.
> 
> The definition of "Rules" is that it Applies to* EVERYBODY* and no one was in exception.
> 
> Even the US observe this "rules" even tho the US has not ratified the UNCLOS.
> 
> The problem with what you and most Chinese thinking is, since China wasn't "Around" when the rules was set, the China should not by all account respect and obey the rules and instead having their "Own" set of rules.
> 
> Well, I did not say China cannot do that, but you cannot do that and say China is not escalating anything. You can change the rules by having it heard internationally, and then when all other party agree to and ratified the amendment, then the rules can be change. You cannot unilaterally change the "rules" when you deem fits and call other aggressive. When you change the rules unilaterally, you are the party that act aggressively.
> 
> Baseline is, if you don't play nice, you automatically refused the right to call other foul.




"Even the US observe this "rules" even tho the US has not ratified the UNCLOS."

You guys are very funny, but can tease nobody. 

Need to know, all the America action has no actual effect upon China in SCS.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Jlaw

xunzi said:


> The best response is keep quiet from our media stand point, meanwhile aggressively tracking their ship and lock on to them. Continue to build on our islands and install defense post in case of the worse.


the best response would be for Chinese warships to lock missiles onto the USS Larsen. Give CNN more things to write about. Chasing and giving warning is not good enough.



terranMarine said:


> Psychological warfare, China keep her head cool and do what it does best: BUILD BUILD and BUILD


Psychological warfare is to intimidate the opponent, not keeping a cool head.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Sanchez

Seriously I think that the 12 mile thing is going to be heated up or escalate. It's the best time for US to wage a war against China. A war between China and US might be inevitable after all. Our government has to weigh the gains and losses. It's only the top bosses who know our cards.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Jlaw

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Did you hear bro? Viet Nam navy invited JMDF Fleet to joint patrol near your islands in SCS.
> 
> Hmm, excited ? I am.
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing new, they've always patrolled this region. Freedom of navigation , I suppose, is guaranteed .



And that was exactly what I was talking about. Now the US have given a false sense of security to Vn and Jp due to a nonchalant first response from PLAN.
@TaiShang @Martian2



Zsari said:


> China didn't start a shooting war with Japan over the Diaoyu island dispute for far more serious transgression, why do you think it would do anything beyond the symbolic with the US?


The fact China did very little with Diaoyu island exposed its weakness. In fact Chinese government arrested partriotic Chinese for staging anti Jap protests in Diaoyu island 
Sometimes you cannot wait for full modernization because when trouble comes to you, you can't just deflect it and hope to modernize until 2025.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## jhungary

Place Of Space said:


> "Even the US observe this "rules" even tho the US has not ratified the UNCLOS."
> 
> You guys are very funny, but can tease nobody.
> 
> Need to know, all the America action has no actual effect upon China in SCS.



lol, did you actually bother to read both UNCLOS and US Navigation Right? The "Freedom of Navigation" part are the same.

And it's true the other way around too, all Chinese Action have no effect on the US, the US will still sail and fly around and to the island regardless.


----------



## prima99

Indonesian President Widodo Calls For 'Restraint' In South China Sea As US Warship USS Lassen Tests China Claim

Speaking in Washington, D.C., Indonesian President Joko Widodo called for "restraint" in the South China Sea hours after a U.S. warship sailed close to an island claimed by China despite Chinese warnings not to do so.

Widodo didn't refer directly to the USS Lassen's journey in his prepared speech at the Brookings Institution, but he said Indonesia is neutral and supports freedom of navigation, the Associated Press reported. 

"Indonesia is not a party to the dispute, but we have a legitimate interest in peace and stability there," AP reported Widodo as saying. "We call on all parties to exercise restraint and refrain from taking actions that could undermine trust and confidence, and put at risk the peace and stability of the region."

China in the past year has made concrete its claim to most of the South China Sea, including parts claimed by the Philippines and Vietnam, by using reclamation to build and expand islands on which it has built airstrips and other facilities.

Widodo also reiterated his statement that Indonesia will play an active role in the situation, declining to say how.

According to the Diplomat, Widodo's defense minister, Ryamizard Ryacudu, this month said if the countries with claims in the South China Sea can calm tensions on their own, “there’s no need to involve other parties in resolving the dispute.”

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## anon45

xunzi said:


> We will speed up our build up. No need to make a big deal out of nothing especially it is our territory. Why can't we build in our territory? It makes no sense to anyone looking at this.. Those islands will be useful to gather intelligence in time of war against all kinds of enemy. There are indeed a good stationary carriers that are unsinkable.



Rest of the world says SCS is not your territory, we will continue sailing where we want to prove it.

Also be specific, they are not Islands, they are *Artificial* Islands.


*shrug* believe they are unsinkable if you want to, there is a reason the US navy calls them grapes, and GPS coordinates are all we need to sink them.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Place Of Space

jhungary said:


> lol, did you actually bother to read both UNCLOS and US Navigation Right? The "Freedom of Navigation" part are the same.
> 
> And it's true the other way around too, all Chinese Action have no effect on the US, the US will still sail and fly around and to the island regardless.



The America still sail and fly around, still has no effect upon China.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## jhungary

Place Of Space said:


> The America still sail and fly around, still has no effect upon China.



do you really want to play this game around and around??

I can say the US is flying over and sailing over "supposedly" your island and China had not been able to do anything about it lol.


----------



## Place Of Space

jhungary said:


> do you really want to play this game around and around??
> 
> I can say the US is flying over and sailing over "supposedly" your island and China had not been able to do anything about it lol.



China do the islands work, this is originally what China has been doing.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## DoTell

Sure, the U.S. punked China 1:0. 2:0 if you count their bomber fly over China's Diaoyu Islands. But there is a no real gain from such childish acts other than earning them a little bragging right for a while. The islands are not going anywhere. China is not to take back their claims or stop building the islands. Provoking China will only strengthen our wills to further protect our claims. 

Makes no mistake about it, no one likes to be punked. But China's reactions has been proper. We are not going to lose control over our core interest right in our backyard. We understand we have the resources and means to protect it. But we need to be patient. Time is on our side.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## jhungary

Place Of Space said:


> China do the islands work, this is originally what China has been doing.



You do know the US patrol these island long before the island was being constructed, right? Trace back all the way to 1980s, were you building Island in SCS back then?


----------



## Place Of Space

jhungary said:


> You do know the US patrol these island long before the island was being constructed, right? Trace back all the way to 1980s, were you building Island in SCS back then?



Not long enough, America is very young since 1773. (limited to the Atlantic coast).

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## jhungary

Place Of Space said:


> Not long enough, America is very young since 1773. (limited to the Atlantic coast).



lol what's how long has US been established matter in SCS, by the way, US independence is in 1776, not 1773


----------



## danger007

jhungary said:


> Actually, according to UNCLOS, there are no different between transiting and conducting military operation
> 
> 
> . China can hold a military Drill in US EEZ as much *** the US having the same right to hold a Military Drill in China EEZ.
> 
> The definition of "Rules" is that it Applies to* EVERYBODY* and no one was in exception.
> 
> Even the US observe this "rules" even tho the US has not ratified the UNCLOS.
> 
> The problem with what you and most Chinese thinking is, since China wasn't "Around" when the rules was set, the China should not by all account respect and obey the rules and instead having their "Own" set of rules.
> 
> Well, I did not say China cannot do that, but you cannot do that and say China is not escalating anything. You can change the rules by having it heard internationally, and then when all other party agree to and ratified the amendment, then the rules can be change. You cannot unilaterally change the "rules" when you deem fits and call other aggressive. When you change the rules unilaterally, you are the party that act aggressively.
> 
> Baseline is, if you don't play nice, you automatically refused the right to call other foul.




China got naval exercise between US, India and Japan in Indian Ocean let alone exercise in China EEZ..... lolz


----------



## Place Of Space

jhungary said:


> lol what's how long has US been established matter in SCS, by the way, US independence is in 1776, not 1773



All right, 3 years younger. I don't care how long has been, US itself just started since 1776. When China travelled through SCS, find, manage their islands, into the Indian ocean. There is nobody America.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## thesolar65

The battle of rhetoric between the US and China continues to escalate over the disputed South China Sea, with state-linked newspapers claiming Beijing is "not frightened to fight a war in the region".

The threat in an editorial of the Global Times comes after the US said it did sail a Navy ship near to China's artificial islands in the Spratly archipelago - and that it will do it again.

But just what is it that has led the two nations, who are otherwise working to forge closer ties, to such a diplomatic impasse?

Located at a maritime crossroads between Malaysia, Vietnam, the Philippines and China, the Spratly Islands are sliced through by a confusion of different claims to sovereign territory.

Areas of open sea in the archipelago have been aggressively dredged by the Chinese Government, however, and in barely two years more than 2,000 acres of new land has been created.

The activity has proved highly controversial because China is accused of creating new land to extend its sea borders. As if to sure up its claims, the Communist state has piled military bases, docks and even a runway on the new islands.

*Why is the US involved?*

The US has said it does not have a position on the land reclamation projects that have incited such anger from China's neighbours.

But the US defence secretary, Ash Carter, implied that the mission to sail the USS Lassen missile destroyer within 12 nautical miles of the Subi Reef was an expression of the right to freedom of navigation.

He told a congressional hearing: "We will fly, sail and operate wherever international law permits." Mr Carter has previously demanded an "immediate and lasting halt" to the reclamation projects in the area.

The Philippines, which has conducted its own land-building efforts on a smaller scale, welcomed the US sail-by as a way of helping maintain "a balance of power" in the region.

*How has China reacted?*

China says it tracked and then warned the USS Lassen as it sailed by the Subi Reef, which only lay above sea level at low tide before Chinese military installations appeared there around 2012.

It has since summoned the American ambassador, Max Bacaus, in protest. China's foreign ministry said on its website that ministers told Mr Bacaus the US had acted in a "provocative" manner which threatened China's sovereignty and security.

Chinese newspapers linked to the Communist party expressed outrage in more colourful terms. According to the Guardian, a Global Times editorial suggested Beijing "should deal with Washington tactfully and prepare for the worst".

"This can convince the White House that China, despite its unwillingness, is not frightened to fight a war with the US in the region, and is determined to safeguard its national interests and dignity."

China's main military newspaper, the People's Liberation Army Daily, reportedly made examples of the US's chaotic interventions in Iraq and Afghanistan.

It said: "Cast-iron facts show that time and again the United States recklessly uses force and starts wars, stirring things up where once there was stability, causing the bitterest of harm to those countries directly involved."

*What are the long-term implications?
*
*Top Comment*
Chinese are in great trouble....USA challenging China at it's door step will pave way for many more countries joining against China.Valid Sach
China has reacted defiantly, saying it will continue to develop its island-building projects and add new buildings, harbours, helipads and runways on them.

But, according to the Associated Press, other countries in the region have greeted the intervention and could use it as encouragement to stand up to China's assertiveness.

Further afield, regional powers including Singapore and Indonesia are wary of being caught up in the increasingly bitter dispute - and all sides are calling for negotiations on a long-term solution to head off the possibility of conflict.


----------



## ahtan_china

DoTell said:


> Sure, the U.S. punked China 1:0. 2:0 if you count their bomber fly over China's Diaoyu Islands. But there is a no real gain from such childish acts other than earning them a little bragging right for a while. The islands are not going anywhere. China is not to take back their claims or stop building the islands. Provoking China will only strengthen our wills to further protect our claims.
> 
> Makes no mistake about it, no one likes to be punked. But China's reactions has been proper. We are not going to lose control over our core interest right in our backyard. We understand we have the resources and means to protect it. But we need to be patient. Time is on our side.


The USA is weaker.
So many follower and younger brothers joined the Korea war with USA in 60+ years ago.
Now USA navy warship should patrol reef of China by himself in SCS. Where is his follower and younger brothers?
Even USA navy can not close to the reef of China and destroy the illegal building of China as the world police!
Do you think USA is a qualified world police?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## mike2000 is back

kawaraj said:


> You make very good point. The US just won't tolerate China in its own shoreline. This is a pure humiliation yet the Chinese navy's weak stance underscore their cowardness.
> 
> I heard people are jumping about their Chinese dream? A small incident can make you feel like back in 1990s your days of being bullied. It's hard to imagine a might industrial nation(the largest actually) like China is making such stupid mistakes. You should get some inspiration from Russia. You weak response could make Putin looks downing on you.
> 
> EAsian could be the only sane Chinese member in the forum. Others look like a bunch of braggart boy showing off your economic wonders on daily basis(what a shame). Remember those wonders and wealth made by your people's hard work only turn into other's prey if you can not defend your interest.



True. Well you cant blame some Chinesemembers here. Afterall, China went from being a third world country with warlords/rebels reigning in their own territories, with foreign powers all having their sphere of influence in China, to being an economic powerhouse. So obviously those Chinese who felt insecure and humiliated by foreign powers and being isolated from the world all this past century rightly feel boastful that their country is now rising to the world stage. Reason you see some of them being so boastful and posting any small news about China like its the end of the world. There was on their member on here @j20blackdragon who was even saying the warm welcoming visit we gave to the chinese president and his wife meant we are now subsevient to China and that they are now our master. lool This is just another sign of somebody who has been and is still insecure. Since you dont see countries like Germany, Japan, australia, France etc saying such things no matter the grandiose visit/welcome we give their presdient.lol 

They should calm down, but i do think the U.S needs to give them some space in their own immediate shores thoiugh.


----------



## F-22Raptor

Australia Prepares Option of Sail-Through to Test China

CANBERRA, Australia—Australian defense planners are looking at the possibility of a naval sail-through close to China’s artificial islands in the South China Sea, in case the government decides to follow its close ally the U.S. in testing Beijing’s territorial claims.

“Australia has been looking at options,” said one official in Australia’s military familiar with operational planning.

The official spoke after the American guided-missile destroyer USS Lassen sailed early Tuesday within 12 nautical miles of Subi Reef, one of seven sand and rock outcrops in the Spratly chain on which China has built artificial islands. The U.S. considers the area international waters, and fears China is trying to enforce territorial claims and gain greater control over major shipping lanes.

Another defense official, who has been involved in a military blueprint about the South China Sea for Australia’s Defense Minister Marise Payne, confirmed that plans for possible naval operations or flights by maritime patrol aircraft had been prepared, though said there is no immediate intent to put them into play. “At this stage, it’s only been looking at what we could do,” the second official said. The military had been looking at options including a sail-through for months, the person said, as tensions in the South China Sea intensified.

Ms. Payne didn’t address a question by The Wall Street Journal on Wednesday about whether Australia has plans under way to test China.

“Australia has a legitimate interest in the maintenance of peace and stability, respect for international law, unimpeded trade and freedom of navigation and overflight in the South China Sea,” she said. “As they do now, Australian vessels and aircraft will continue to exercise rights under international law to freedom of navigation and freedom of overflight.”

China’s Foreign Ministry didn’t respond to a faxed request for comment. The U.S. Embassy in Canberra couldn’t be reached.

China, Australia’s largest trading partner, lays claim to nearly all of the South China Sea, where 60% of Australia’s trade passes. Other Asia-Pacific countries also have high stakes in China’s growing assertiveness in the contested waters. None has publicly said it would openly challenge China with its military following the U.S. naval operation.

Peter Jennings, the executive director of the government-backed security think tank the Australian Strategic Policy Institute, said he expected most U.S. regional allies would follow with their own exercises to assert freedom of navigation, although few would telegraph movements in advance for operational security reasons.

“I think it is now critical we follow this up so that we don’t just leave it to the United States on what is an issue worrying countries from the Philippines to Vietnam,” said Mr. Jennings, a former Australian intelligence analyst.

“We won’t know about it until it happens because no one wants to attract a load of Chinese opprobrium in advance,” said Mr. Jennings, who is advising the Australian government of preparation of a new strategic planning blueprint that will grapple with China’s muscle-flexing in the South China Sea.

Australia has two naval frigates in the South China Sea region—the HMAS Arunta and HMAS Stuart—which have been scheduled to carry out exercises alongside Chinese warships over the next week, as a naval confidence-building exercise.

Ms. Payne told The Wall Street Journal there has been no change in plans on those movements following the USS Lassen’s passage.

She said on Tuesday that Australia hadn’t joined the sail-past to challenge to China’s territorial assertions. The possibility was understood to have been informally discussed among military officials alongside talks this month in Boston between Ms. Payne and Foreign Minister Julie Bishop and their U.S. counterparts Ash Carter and John Kerry.

After those talks, Ms. Payne played down the likelihood of Australia joining the U.S. on a freedom of navigation sail-through, but said Canberra had agreed to boost cooperation and exercises alongside the U.S. Navy. Those comments and criticism of Chinese actions earned a rebuke from Chinese envoys in Canberra, who issued a statement saying Australian and the U.S. should not “light a fire and add fuel to the flames.”

“It is important to recognize that all states have a right under international law to freedom of navigation and freedom of overflight, including in the South China Sea. Australia strongly supports these rights,” Ms. Payne said in a statement on Wednesday after the USS Lassen’s passage.

Australia’s government has so far asserted that it will keep carrying out patrols in the South China Sea. These include maritime overflights by long-range Australian reconnaissance aircraft based out of an air base in Malaysia. The frigate Arunta passed through the South China Sea with an Australian navy supply ship two weeks ago.

Australia Prepares Option of Sail-Through to Test China - WSJ

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## 帅的一匹

gambit said:


> Yes, we will be impressed. But that will be the extent of China's effects on US. The SCS will be available for *ALL* to sail, and there is not a damn thing China can do about it.


only US navy dare to sail, who the else? you just put up a political show to flatter those congress men. what the heck you can do to our island construction? American is paper tiger as known in Korean War.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## xperia

China to US(like kids): aj mari tabbiyat kharab thee. kal ana to main maron ga tumhain


----------



## Zsari

Thəorətic Muslim said:


> Article 87(1). But if your questioning the verbatim definition of 'Navigation' then yes it is defined in definition.


 
Navigation is defined as passage of ship. Is conducting military mission considered navigation? China obviously disagrees.



Thəorətic Muslim said:


> The Spartys aren't recognized as Chinese Territory, if they were the Chinese would have the 12 mile territorial claim around them. This is the real dispute.


 
Yes, that's my point. Most of the media points to the keyword of "artificial island" as the basis for legality of US patrol, which is completely false. It is Chinese ownership of the island that US disputes, not the construction.



jhungary said:


> You did not get my point at all.
> 
> First of all, there *ARE* written rule defining the freedom of navigation. Both Navigation Right and Freedom of Navigation were defined as per UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS). While US did not sign in at the convention, the US operate on US Law of Navigation (Or US Navigation Rights) but we are talking about the former, not the later, which China belong to the former convention as a Signed and Ratified Parties.
> 
> Both navigational right and freedom of navigation is defined as per Article 87 (FON) and Article 88 (Nav Right)
> 
> But this is not my point.
> 
> My point is as follow.
> 
> China can protest or they can ignore the law by its own merit. To be honest, the only thing Chinese Government need to do is to withdrew from the UNCLOS once and for all and issue their own Navigation Right, as per US. The problem is. You can do either one but not both.
> 
> You can withdrew from the Convention, then use your own law, but then you cannot protest other being "aggressive" as you lost the right to be protected by the convention, should you choose to leave. And if you are going to do what you do unilaterally, then what do you expect on other party response?
> 
> You can protest against the US aggression, if you stick by the UNCLOS. If you think the US is the aggressor per international law, you can speak up in the international forum you belong to. But by doing so, you would be need to respect and abide to the law as we speak. Building Island on an international waterway is not permitted as per UNCLOS.
> 
> You can leave, or you can protest, but you cannot do both. Doing one will concede the right of doing the other. What Chinese Government and to some extend PDF Chinese member here doing at this moment is they are doing both.


 

Wait a minute. Where does it say building island on the high sea is not permitted? Per freedom of the high seas in article 87 specifically states the freedom to construct artificial islands in the same status as the freedom of navigation. Moreover, China is not even building artificial island on the high sea, but conducting land reclamation on the existing island that it claims sovereign over.

_Article87
Freedom of the high seas

1. The high seas are open to all States, whether coastal or land-locked. Freedom of the high seas is exercised under the conditions laid down by this Convention and by other rules of international law. It comprises, inter alia, both for coastal and land-locked States:
(a) freedom of navigation;
(b) freedom of overflight;
(c) freedom to lay submarine cables and pipelines, subject to Part VI;
(d) freedom to construct artificial islands and other installations permitted under international law, subject to Part VI;
(e) freedom of fishing, subject to the conditions laid down in section 2;
(f) freedom of scientific research, subject to Parts VI and XIII.
2. These freedoms shall be exercised by all States with due regard for the interests of other States in their exercise of the freedom of the high seas, and also with due regard for the rights under this Convention with respect to activities in the Area._

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Place Of Space

It's not all negative thing USA get involved SCS issues directly.
At least the USA action can beat the ridiculous trolls China bully those poor little neighbors. lol.


----------



## Thəorətic Muslim

Zsari said:


> Yes, that's my point. Most of the media points to the keyword of "artificial island" as the basis for legality of US patrol, which is completely false. It is Chinese ownership of the island that US disputes, not the construction.
> 
> Navigation is defined as passage of ship. Is conducting military mission considered navigation? China obviously disagrees.



The Brits created a series of artificial "islands" between it and the English Channel to break up Nazi Attack Squadrons in WW2. They are outside the British Territorial waters, and hence the Germans had to negotiate with the Prince of Sea-land when another foolish pirate radio operator wanted to become the prince and take over his competitor hired some german mercenaries, to take it, who didnt expect a fight got captured.

Principality of Sealand - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If the Destroyer was just sailing through then yes it does have the right to do so. Even an Electronic Warfare ship can navigate.



> Under international law a warship can transit through a nation’s territorial waters “so long as it is not prejudicial to the peace, good order or security of the coastal state,”



Here's a report of Chinese ships passing:
Chinese Navy Ships Came Within 12 Nautical Miles of U.S. Coast - WSJ

Any ship can enter territorial waters, it's sailors can walk around naked to show the natives their crown jewels. It can't enter if it's going to carry out a military strike. Even in Special Operations, the operator has to show their nationality flag on their shoulders.


----------



## Speeder 2

CCP said:


> Any link for that?



Http://www.wikilinks.org/agent_orange_effect.html


----------



## Zsari

Jlaw said:


> The fact China did very little with Diaoyu island exposed its weakness. In fact Chinese government arrested partriotic Chinese for staging anti Jap protests in Diaoyu island .


 
Be very careful who these "patriotic Chinese" are, the same HK group that protests against the Chinese government. Do not be provoked into actions by third party that are funding these people.


----------



## Speeder 2

Jlaw said:


> And that was exactly what I was talking about. Now the US have given a false sense of security to Vn and Jp due to a nonchalant first response from PLAN.
> @TaiShang @Martian2
> 
> 
> The fact China did very little with Diaoyu island exposed its weakness. In fact Chinese government arrested partriotic Chinese for staging anti Jap protests in Diaoyu island
> Sometimes you cannot wait for full modernization because when trouble comes to you, you can't just deflect it and hope to modernize until 2025.



Its corruption.

Didn't a chinese general named Fan Long Worm say merely days ago that china would not resort to force even if the US went into 12 nm? That is basically opening a green light telling US to go and China promises to stay put. 

I can't believe that one could be that stupid, except some curry munching friends in PDF of course. China' s anti-corruption bureau should investigate this Fan. He must have deposited all his countless silvers with Chase Manhattan in New York.


----------



## Zsari

Solomon2 said:


> I don't think this is China's position, that it is "first claimant." Rather, China's position is that these areas are China's and that other claims don't exist. This makes resolving the issue impossible - which, in my opinion, is what the CCP wants right now.


 
You are mistaking China for Japan. That is exactly the Japanese position on the Diaoyu island dispute, whereas China has always maintained that territorial dispute in the South China Sea should be resolved bilaterally.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Beast

thesolar65 said:


> The battle of rhetoric between the US and China continues to escalate over the disputed South China Sea, with state-linked newspapers claiming Beijing is "not frightened to fight a war in the region".
> 
> The threat in an editorial of the Global Times comes after the US said it did sail a Navy ship near to China's artificial islands in the Spratly archipelago - and that it will do it again.
> 
> But just what is it that has led the two nations, who are otherwise working to forge closer ties, to such a diplomatic impasse?
> 
> Located at a maritime crossroads between Malaysia, Vietnam, the Philippines and China, the Spratly Islands are sliced through by a confusion of different claims to sovereign territory.
> 
> Areas of open sea in the archipelago have been aggressively dredged by the Chinese Government, however, and in barely two years more than 2,000 acres of new land has been created.
> 
> The activity has proved highly controversial because China is accused of creating new land to extend its sea borders. As if to sure up its claims, the Communist state has piled military bases, docks and even a runway on the new islands.
> 
> *Why is the US involved?*
> 
> The US has said it does not have a position on the land reclamation projects that have incited such anger from China's neighbours.
> 
> But the US defence secretary, Ash Carter, implied that the mission to sail the USS Lassen missile destroyer within 12 nautical miles of the Subi Reef was an expression of the right to freedom of navigation.
> 
> He told a congressional hearing: "We will fly, sail and operate wherever international law permits." Mr Carter has previously demanded an "immediate and lasting halt" to the reclamation projects in the area.
> 
> The Philippines, which has conducted its own land-building efforts on a smaller scale, welcomed the US sail-by as a way of helping maintain "a balance of power" in the region.
> 
> *How has China reacted?*
> 
> China says it tracked and then warned the USS Lassen as it sailed by the Subi Reef, which only lay above sea level at low tide before Chinese military installations appeared there around 2012.
> 
> It has since summoned the American ambassador, Max Bacaus, in protest. China's foreign ministry said on its website that ministers told Mr Bacaus the US had acted in a "provocative" manner which threatened China's sovereignty and security.
> 
> Chinese newspapers linked to the Communist party expressed outrage in more colourful terms. According to the Guardian, a Global Times editorial suggested Beijing "should deal with Washington tactfully and prepare for the worst".
> 
> "This can convince the White House that China, despite its unwillingness, is not frightened to fight a war with the US in the region, and is determined to safeguard its national interests and dignity."
> 
> China's main military newspaper, the People's Liberation Army Daily, reportedly made examples of the US's chaotic interventions in Iraq and Afghanistan.
> 
> It said: "Cast-iron facts show that time and again the United States recklessly uses force and starts wars, stirring things up where once there was stability, causing the bitterest of harm to those countries directly involved."
> 
> *What are the long-term implications?
> *
> *Top Comment*
> Chinese are in great trouble....USA challenging China at it's door step will pave way for many more countries joining against China.Valid Sach
> China has reacted defiantly, saying it will continue to develop its island-building projects and add new buildings, harbours, helipads and runways on them.
> 
> But, according to the Associated Press, other countries in the region have greeted the intervention and could use it as encouragement to stand up to China's assertiveness.
> 
> Further afield, regional powers including Singapore and Indonesia are wary of being caught up in the increasingly bitter dispute - and all sides are calling for negotiations on a long-term solution to head off the possibility of conflict.



BS article. Nobody is cheering these kind of distruptive engagement that could harm trade and causes unnecessary anxiety to the already fragile world economy. Talking about island expansion, Malaysia, Philippine, Vietnam has long engage these activities with no one make a fuss until now by US pinpointing at China only. Then they will come out with the stupid reasoning China is pick becos the expansion of island is much bigger than others. WHo the hell are to judge who is bigger and who's not.

The article is right. China shall engage a strong stance against US provocation. The response will come soon. Be prepare for blood to shed.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zsari

Thəorətic Muslim said:


> The Brits created a series of artificial "islands" between it and the English Channel to break up Nazi Attack Squadrons in WW2. They are outside the British Territorial waters, and hence the Germans had to negotiate with the Prince of Sea-land when another foolish pirate radio operator wanted to become the prince and take over his competitor hired some german mercenaries, to take it, who didnt expect a fight got captured.
> 
> Principality of Sealand - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> If the Destroyer was just sailing through then yes it does have the right to do so. Even an Electronic Warfare ship can navigate.
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a report of Chinese ships passing:
> Chinese Navy Ships Came Within 12 Nautical Miles of U.S. Coast - WSJ
> 
> Any ship can enter territorial waters, it's sailors can walk around naked to show the natives their crown jewels. It can't enter if it's going to carry out a military strike. Even in Special Operations, the operator has to show their nationality flag on their shoulders.


 
We are talking about two different topic. I was responding to Jhungary regarding to China's dispute with the US over its conducting of espionage mission and military drill in China's EEZ. You are talking about innocent passage which is well defined.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Thəorətic Muslim

Zsari said:


> We are talking about two different topic. I was responding to Jhungary regarding to China's dispute with the US over its conducting of espionage mission and military drill in China's EEZ. You are talking about innocent passage which is well defined.



They both go hand in hand. China is no right to claim Territorial Waters if the territory isn't recognized. 

So the passage of the Destroyer isn't a concern. Regardless. It can sail up within the 12 miles of China's coast also without hindrance from the Chinese, unless its planning on attacking.


----------



## saurav

Interesting development. Although this whole affair would have been agreed upon by both US and Chinese authorities in private.



xperia said:


> China to US(like kids): aj mari tabbiyat kharab thee. kal ana to main maron ga tumhain


 Achchi tactic hai. Koi Chinese samjhenge bhi nahin.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zsari

Thəorətic Muslim said:


> They both go hand in hand. China is no right to claim Territorial Waters if the territory isn't recognized.
> 
> So the passage of the Destroyer isn't a concern. Regardless. It can sail up within the 12 miles of China's coast also without hindrance from the Chinese, unless its planning on attacking.


 
There are specific protocol to innocent passage that I don't think US excursion in the SCS would qualify, ie no radar and helicopter in conducting surveillance etc.

*Article 19*
* Meaning of innocent passage*
_1. Passage is innocent so long as it is not prejudicial to the peace, good order or security of the coastal State. Such passage shall take place in conformity with this Convention and with other rules of international law. 
2. Passage of a foreign ship shall be considered to be prejudicial to the peace, good order or security of the coastal State if in the territorial sea it engages in any of the following activities: _

_any threat or use of force against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of the coastal State, or in any other manner in violation of the principles of international law embodied in the Charter of the United Nations; _
_any exercise or practice with weapons of any kind; _
_any act aimed at collecting information to the prejudice of the defence or security of the coastal State; _
_any act of propaganda aimed at affecting the defence or security of the coastal State; _
_the launching, landing or taking on board of any aircraft; _
_the launching, landing or taking on board of any military device; _
_the loading or unloading of any commodity, currency or person contrary to the customs, fiscal, immigration or sanitary laws and regulations of the coastal State; _
_any act of wilful and serious pollution contrary to this Convention; _
_any fishing activities; _
_the carrying out of research or survey activities; _
_any act aimed at interfering with any systems of communication or any other facilities or installations of the coastal State; _
_any other activity not having a direct bearing on passage. _
*Article 21*
* Laws and regulations of the coastal State relating to innocent passage*
_1. The coastal State may adopt laws and regulations, in conformity with the provisions of this Convention and other rules of international law, relating to innocent passage through the territorial sea, in respect of all or any of the following: _

_the safety of navigation and the regulation of maritime traffic; _
_the protection of navigational aids and facilities and other facilities or installations; _
_the protection of cables and pipelines; _
_the conservation of the living resources of the sea; _
_the prevention of infringement of the fisheries laws and regulations of the coastal State; _
_the preservation of the environment of the coastal State and the prevention, reduction and control of pollution thereof; _
_marine scientific research and hydrographic surveys; _
_the prevention of infringement of the customs, fiscal, immigration or sanitary laws and regulations of the coastal State. _
_2. Such laws and regulations shall not apply to the design, construction, manning or equipment of foreign ships unless they are giving effect to generally accepted international rules or standards. 
3. The coastal State shall give due publicity to all such laws and regulations. 
4. Foreign ships exercising the right of innocent passage through the territorial sea shall comply with all such laws and regulations and all generally accepted international regulations relating to the prevention of collisions at sea._

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Solomon2

Zsari said:


> You are mistaking China for Japan. That is exactly the Japanese position on the Diaoyu island dispute, whereas China has always maintained that territorial dispute in the South China Sea should be resolved bilaterally.


My understanding is that bilateral talks always start with China explaining the area is Chinese, period, and any other status can't be discussed by China's diplomats. If I'm wrong I'd gladly learn better - please provide links or quote sources, thanks.


----------



## Jlaw

Speeder 2 said:


> Its corruption.
> 
> Didn't a chinese general named Fan Long Worm say merely days ago that china would not resort to force even if the US went into 12 nm? That is basically opening a green light telling US to go and China promises to stay put.
> 
> I can't believe that one could be that stupid, except some curry munching friends in PDF of course. China' s anti-corruption bureau should investigate this Fan. He must have deposited all his countless silvers with Chase Manhattan in New York.



Either he said that or it was misquoted in English news. I cannot read the Chinese newspaper so other who know this can say if it's mistranslated or he actually said this. If he did say it I am not surprised because if it's a Chinese strategy of keeping a low profile and continue modernization, it's starting to wane.

@cnleio @Martian2 what did the Chinese general say from Chinese sources?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Zsari

Solomon2 said:


> My understanding is that bilateral talks always start with China explaining the area is Chinese, period, and any other status can't be discussed by China's diplomats. If I'm wrong I'd gladly learn better - please provide links or quote sources, thanks.


 
Any bilateral talk will start with reaffirming one's claim from both side, without which you will have no basis to negotiate anything. And realistically speaking, China would want to hold off or delay any negotiation until it is able to resolve its internal dispute with ROC first.


----------



## Solomon2

Zsari said:


> Any bilateral talk will start with reaffirming one's claim from both side, without which you will have no basis to negotiate anything.


We're not talking reaffirmation but stuffing cotton in the ears.



> ...And realistically speaking, China would want to hold off or delay any negotiation until it is able to resolve its internal dispute with ROC first.


That's the first time I've ever heard that excuse and I don't see how it applies, it doesn't affect China's external boundaries and claims at all, does it?


----------



## Zsari

Solomon2 said:


> We're not talking reaffirmation but stuffing cotton in the ears.
> 
> That's the first time I've ever heard that excuse and I don't see how it applies, it doesn't affect China's external boundaries and claims at all, does it?


 
Lol, that's how diplomacy works. But yes, like I've already explained, the most important island in the Spratly chain and the only island that is qualified for EEZ is controlled by ROC. So yes, it would matter greatly.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

The best way to respond would be to in return hold a freedom of navigation operation in Alaska and Florida.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Solomon2

Zsari said:


> Lol, that's how diplomacy works.


Unless the matter is urgent, such brutality is usually employed by diplomats only when they have weak moral or legal grounds to stand upon.



> ...the most important island in the Spratly chain and the only island that is qualified for EEZ is controlled by ROC. So yes, it would matter greatly.


I can't see how that matters in the slightest when it comes to external negotiations.


----------



## Zsari

Solomon2 said:


> Unless the matter is urgent, such brutality is usually employed by diplomats only when they have weak moral or legal grounds to stand upon.
> 
> I can't see how that matters in the slightest when it comes to external negotiations.


 
Brutality? Statement of brutality? Oh boy. Of course it matters as the relevant party can negotiate with ROC to get a more favorable term just as Japan has with its fishing right agreement.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## mike jones

Slav Defence said:


> Please,have your discussions,but without any offence.If this thread succeed in having peaceful discussions till 23 posts,then I will be getting a real good heart attack
> On serious note,it is not a game.US-China needs to reconsider such cases and should sit together to resolve them.
> To the thread op,he should grow up and learn that war is a bad game.If US wasted all it's economy on this,then she will eventually lost her position,a really sincere advise.Economical and regional stability comes first.
> Regards



Excuse me? I don't know if you are referring to me or the article creator himself. Whatever it is, it is people's opinion. Everyone knows war is bad. If China wants to create a problem worldwide, then be it. Everyone has their ways to fend for themselves. However, US knows its place and doesn't need to brag about its power. A threat to US is a threat to NATO. Telling someone to grow up is very short sited and immature.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## AMDR

*U.S. Plans More Patrols in South China Sea Despite Chinese Rebuke*
South China Sea Dispute: U.S. Plans Additional Patrols

The U.S. is planning more naval patrols in the South China Sea despite a strong rebuke from the Chinese government, according to a new report.

The news, attributed to an anonymous U.S. defense official by by Voice of America, comes after a China Foreign Ministry spokesman condemned a U.S. patrol in the disputed waters as “deliberately provocative actions.” U.S. Ambassador to China Max Baucus had been summoned to explain the perceived violation of China’s territory on Tuesday. The U.S. official said of the patrols: “This is not going to be the last one.” 

“We stand firmly against the harm caused by any country to China’s sovereignty and security interests under the cloak of navigation and over-flight freedom,” said a statement from the Chinese government.

The U.S. patrol occurred near artificial islands built by China on reefs in the Sea. Vietnam, Taiwan, Brunei, Malaysia, Indonesia and the Philippines also have claims in the region. The U.S. move follows prodding from allies.

[VOA]

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## gambit

FairAndUnbiased said:


> The best way to respond would be to in return hold a freedom of navigation operation in Alaska and Florida.


Absolutely. Especially the Gulf of Mexico.

Ever since that Chinese admiral said the SCS belongs to China because of the 'China' in its name, the Mexicans have been asserting themselves in the Gulf of Mexico because of the name 'Mexico'. The US is helpless under Mexican bullying. Would China give a show of strength to the Mexicans ?


----------



## silent hawk

AoA
The area is heating up
Regards


----------



## Viva_Viet

US can send some big fishing vessel there to score more point. 

1 big fishing vessel, 1 point. If CN go nuts and ram you fishing ships, then just slap a hard sanction on th after TPP to eliminate CN economy


----------



## Penguin

cnleio said:


> U forget Franklin Island to Britain or Hawaii to U.S, there's nothing is ludicrous, power speaking in the world ... also Japan building artificial island in the pacific.


No I don't. An EEZ does not give territorial rights. Only yor 12nmi zone does.



mike2000 is back said:


> Falkland islands bro.


The brits are not claiming the entire south atlantic, are they?

Dark blue/red only is territorial waters. That;'s where sovereignty applied. Only there. You can't exlude surface traffic from an EEZ.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## sicsheep

jhungary said:


> Look to me it's the Chinese who are doing the crying.
> 
> South China Sea: China slams US over warship sailing near artificial islands; US ambassador 'summoned' - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
> South China Sea: Beijing calls US Navy warship's route a 'provocation'
> South China Sea: US Navy warship sails by China's artificial islands, says US
> 
> The US, on the other hand, just do what they want to do....They did not protest, they simply challenge it.



LOL really?
Pentagon says Chinese vessels harassed U.S. ship - CNN.com
Pentagon: China jet made 'unsafe' move near U.S. plane - CNNPolitics.com
U.S., Chinese warships come dangerously close - CNNPolitics.com
Chinese Warships Made ‘Innocent Passage’ Through U.S. Territorial Waters off Alaska

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Penguin

Zsari said:


> China has yet to declare its EEZ. Of all the islansd in the Spratly chain, there is a single island that is fully qualified for EEZ, and that is the Taiping island which is currently controlled by ROC. So until PRC/ROC resolve their difference, China will most definitely hold back on such a declaration. Right now China is just sticking to the 9 dash line which is a mirror of the 10 dash line published by ROC without giving much detail.


None of this is territorial waters. You can't exlude surface or even air traffic from anything but you land area and 12nmi zone. Period.


----------



## Zsari

Penguin said:


> None of this is territorial waters. You can't exlude surface or even air traffic from anything but you land area and 12nmi zone. Period.


 
Never said it was. China never made any attempt in stopping air or surface traffic through the region. Rather US vessel did enter the 12nm zone if case you haven't notice.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## LowPost

* 'China no longer a Western colony & won't be bullied' *

While the world’s attention has been focused on events in the Middle East and Ukraine and the US-Russia standoff, another crisis has been brewing in the South China Sea where Washington’s writ is being contested by China.
It is a territorial dispute that goes back centuries, but which has become increasingly tense in recent years.

Deepening tensions in the South China Sea involving a territorial dispute over the Paracel and Spratly Islands – in truth, submerged pieces of rock - are particularly delicate, given that the dispute involves multiple countries, including China, Vietnam, Singapore Malaysia, Taiwan, and the Philippines.

The waters around these islands are known to be rich in natural resources, and would constitute a significant boon to the economy of the state that has sovereignty over them.

Meanwhile, China - much to the consternation of the United States - has been actively constructing a man-made island in the area, which includes a runway big enough for military aircraft.

This dispute cannot be treated in isolation from its wider geopolitical context. As China’s economy continues to grow relative to the US economy, Washington is using this dispute as an excuse to exert pressure on China militarily with the objective of intimidating Beijing and reminding it to know its place in the global scheme of things.

Consider the extent to which the US has been arming Japan, South Korea, and its other South Asian satellite states in recent years. The official line is that US allies located in proximity to China are upping their military spending in response to China’s own increase in military spending, which is set to rise by around 10 percent this year, pushing it just over $140 billion.

However, China’s military budget still remains miniscule compared to the US equivalent, which the Obama administration has decided will come in at around a mammoth $585 billion in 2016.

Beijing claims that its increase in military spending is primarily to meet the cost of modernization, as it equips its army, air force, and navy with the latest technology and weaponry, and works to integrate them. It is also the case that as China’s economic footprint grows so does its security needs in order to protect those interests.

More importantly, we have to consider the deep national scars that remain ever present within the Chinese national psyche over the humiliation it has experienced in its history – not to mention brutality and barbarism – as a consequence of its occupation by Japan between 1931 and 1945, and prior to that as a colony of the Western powers.

All these factors play into the territorial disputes that are ongoing in both the South China Sea and East China Sea (in the latter case with Japan), and which show no sign of abating anytime soon. China’s determination to assert its territorial claim is a product of its determination to deter any would-be aggressor and ensure that its sovereignty remains inviolate.

Without any sense of irony, the US, operating on behalf of the other nations involved in the dispute, claims that China’s actions are a violation of international law and freedom of navigation.

This at least is the justification for the recent provocative appearance of the USS Lassen – a US Navy guided missile destroyer - patrolling waters claimed by China around the Spratly Islands.

In response, the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs summoned the US Ambassador to China, Max Baucus, for an explanation, railing against what it considers was a clear violation of its territory.

China also issued the following statement through its foreign affairs spokesman, Lu Kang: _“If any country thinks that, through some gimmicks, they will be able to interfere with or even prevent China from engaging in reasonable, legitimate and legal activities in its own territories, I want to suggest those countries give up such fantasy."_

He added that China _“would resolutely respond to any country’s deliberately provocative actions.”_

For too long Washington has viewed the world as a giant chessboard and nation states as mere pieces, available to be moved around according to US economic and strategic interests. When Chinese and Russian naval carrier groups are operating up and down US coastal waters on a regular basis, and when China controls the global economy via currency hegemony, then the more discerning among us may be willing to entertain criticisms of Beijing.

Until then we can only continue to expose the rampant hypocrisy and double standards that informs US engagement with other nations and regions. China is no longer a colony of the West and will not be bullied; this much is clear. Also clear is that the only path to peace and stability is a multipolar alternative to the unipolarity enjoyed by the US over the past three decades.

And let the midwife of this multipolar world not be chaos and conflict but diplomacy, compromise, and respect for the rights and interests of all states and nations. Let there be an end to a two-tier world made up of the US and its allies at the top, and the rest of the world below.

The alternative, after all, is just too awful to contemplate.

'China no longer a Western colony & won't be bullied' — RT Op-Edge

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Raphael

Indonesia calls for US-China to ‘restrain themselves’, lashes US ‘power projection’ after Spratly sail-by | South China Morning Post

The Indonesian government expressed disapproval Wednesday over a “power projection” exercise conducted by the United States which saw a Navy destroyer enter what Beijing claims to be its territorial waters around artificial islands in the South China Sea.

“We disagree, we don't like any power projection,” Coordinating Minister for Political, Legal and Security Affairs Luhut Pandjaitan told a small group of reporters.

“Have you ever heard of power projection solving problems? In Afghanistan? In Iraq? The United States has spent trillions of dollars in Afghanistan and Iraq. What are the results? Hundreds of thousands of people were killed. And now, violence continues to happen in Iraq,” he added.

Pandjaitan made the statement a day after the USS Lassen, based in Yokosuka, Japan, sailed near the Spratly islands, escalating tension between the United States and China.

The U.S. warship's patrol within 12 nautical miles (about 22 kilometres) of Subi Reef in the archipelago represents the U.S. government's strongest action in recent years to challenge China's continued pursuit of territorial claims in one of the world's most important shipping lanes.

China criticised the move as a “deliberate provocation.”

The current situation in Afghanistan, Iraq and some countries in the Middle East, according to Pandjaitan, has been the result of power projection by powerful countries.

“We don't want that, because we have seen that power projection will not solve any problem. Indonesia believes in the tradition of building dialogues and negotiations, because the results will be more positive than showing off your power,” he said.

Saying Indonesia's relationships with both the United States and China are good, Pandjaitan called on the two countries to “restrain themselves.” He also reiterated Indonesia's commitment to playing an active role in making the region peaceful by pushing for dialogue between conflicting countries to help settle any disputes.

U.S. Defence Secretary Ashton Carter indicated in Washington that the United States will continue its navigation in the waters.

Philippine President Benigno Aquino, speaking to foreign correspondents in Manila, said he supported the US naval manoeuvres as an assertion of freedom of navigation and as a means to balance power in the region.

“I think expressing support for established norms of international behaviour should not be a negative for a country,” he said. 

“I think everybody would welcome a balance of power anywhere in the world.” 

Without identifying China by name, he said “one regional power” has been making “controversial pronouncements” that must not be left unchallenged.

China claims sovereignty over most of the South China Sea, which is believed to be potentially rich in oil and gas resources.

China says the United States, Japan and other major countries are outsiders in its disputes with smaller Asian claimants, including the Philippines and Vietnam, and should not interfere.

Despite China's protests, Australian defense planners are looking at the possibility of a naval sail-through close to China's artificial islands in the South China Sea, the Wall Street Journal reported.

“Australia has been looking at options,” the report quoted one unnamed official in Australia’s military familiar with operational planning.

The report quoted another defense official as saying that plans for possible naval operations or flights by maritime patrol aircraft had been prepared, though there is no immediate intent to put them into play.

China has repeatedly argued that its rapid reclamation work is civilian in nature and warned that it would never allow violations of its territorial waters in the name of freedom of navigation.

The United States informed nations in Southeast Asia, as well as Japan, this month of its intention to send naval vessels into the disputed archipelago, according to diplomats.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## ahtan_china

Viva_Viet said:


> US can send some big fishing vessel there to score more point.
> 
> 1 big fishing vessel, 1 point. If CN go nuts and ram you fishing ships, then just slap a hard sanction on th after TPP to eliminate CN economy


Don't just talk. Viet should follow his master to patrol the reef of SCS.


----------



## jhungary

sicsheep said:


> LOL really?
> Pentagon says Chinese vessels harassed U.S. ship - CNN.com
> Pentagon: China jet made 'unsafe' move near U.S. plane - CNNPolitics.com
> U.S., Chinese warships come dangerously close - CNNPolitics.com
> Chinese Warships Made ‘Innocent Passage’ Through U.S. Territorial Waters off Alaska



did you actually bother to read the article or just quoting the headline when it seems fit you??

Pentagon says Chinese vessels harassed U.S. ship - CNN.com - You quote an 2009 article. LOL, how does the US bitch about the SCS *CURRENTLY*, while you at it, why don't you quote one in 1980s or even 1950 when China are hostile to the US?

Pentagon: China jet made 'unsafe' move near U.S. plane - CNNPolitics.com - The US protest about Chinese jet being unsafe, would you lodge a complaint if some stuntman start flying loop-de-loop over your home at low altitude?

U.S., Chinese warships come dangerously close - CNNPolitics.com - Again, old article, in 2013, the situation is esculated in 2015 in case if you haven't noticed

Chinese Warships Made ‘Innocent Passage’ Through U.S. Territorial Waters off Alaska - That's an article quote a normal procedure, US cannot protest something that is covered under international law. So if you want to access Panama Canal, how you can do it without entering Panama territorial water? Same thing to Chinese ship in Bering Strait.

at the end of the day, all Chinese can do is protest, maybe you should intercept the US fleet entering your so-called 12nm limit, let's see what will happen?



Zsari said:


> Navigation is defined as passage of ship. Is conducting military mission considered navigation? China obviously disagrees.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, that's my point. Most of the media points to the keyword of "artificial island" as the basis for legality of US patrol, which is completely false. It is Chinese ownership of the island that US disputes, not the construction.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wait a minute. Where does it say building island on the high sea is not permitted? Per freedom of the high seas in article 87 specifically states the freedom to construct artificial islands in the same status as the freedom of navigation. Moreover, China is not even building artificial island on the high sea, but conducting land reclamation on the existing island that it claims sovereign over.
> 
> _Article87
> Freedom of the high seas
> 
> 1. The high seas are open to all States, whether coastal or land-locked. Freedom of the high seas is exercised under the conditions laid down by this Convention and by other rules of international law. It comprises, inter alia, both for coastal and land-locked States:
> (a) freedom of navigation;
> (b) freedom of overflight;
> (c) freedom to lay submarine cables and pipelines, subject to Part VI;
> (d) freedom to construct artificial islands and other installations permitted under international law, subject to Part VI;
> (e) freedom of fishing, subject to the conditions laid down in section 2;
> (f) freedom of scientific research, subject to Parts VI and XIII.
> 2. These freedoms shall be exercised by all States with due regard for the interests of other States in their exercise of the freedom of the high seas, and also with due regard for the rights under this Convention with respect to activities in the Area._



Maybe you need to check my post again, I had *NEVER* said Article 87 forbid building Island.

I forgot which one but the article that define "International Waterway" in UNCLOS had explicitly defined any international waterway must be permanently neutral and there could not be any established Military Structure on any international waterway. Hence all international waterway must be demilitarized. It's like Panama Government trying to reclaim island for military use on Panama Canal. It's a violation of international law of the sea.

The Chinese are currently Militarizing the island by reclaiming the land and put military structure in it, the act would have been totally fine if SCS is actually agree upon to be inside China territorial water, but since the island is disputed, and basically only China itself recognize the area is in Chinese territorial water the act itself would be considered a violation to the so called "High Sea" law under UNCLOS.

As I said, either China break away from UNCLOS and start its own law, and then you lose the right to be protected by UNCLOS and the right to protest a la dog eat dog world. Or China comply to what UNCLOS set forth and protest against US aggression, again, you cannot have both.



Place Of Space said:


> All right, 3 years younger. I don't care how long has been, US itself just started since 1776. When China travelled through SCS, find, manage their islands, into the Indian ocean. There is nobody America.



lol, in that case, the country "China, People Republic of" had not existed until 1949. Before that is the Republic of China, Before that is Qing Dynasty and before that is another dynasty and all the way to Xie Dynasty in 1600BC. If you count Xie as an extension of modern China, then the "US History" is not simply started from 1776. They started at first American Indian settle in American continent during 16,000 BC.

So if you want to count the 5,000 years history, then the US Native Indian, *WHICH IS PART OF US CITIZENS NOW*, would have 19,000 years of history.


----------



## Viva_Viet

ahtan_china said:


> Don't just talk. Viet should follow his master to patrol the reef of SCS.


Those reefs are useless to us. Unifying sub Mekong region is much more important.

So,just let US fishing ships teach CN a lesson there.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## sicsheep

jhungary said:


> So if you want to count the 5,000 years history, then the US Native Indian, *WHICH IS PART OF US CITIZENS NOW*, would have 19,000 years of history.



You should give the Monkey in your ZOO US citizenship, then you'd have longer history then all of humanity. hahahah 



jhungary said:


> did you actually bother to read the article or just quoting the headline when it seems fit you??
> 
> Pentagon says Chinese vessels harassed U.S. ship - CNN.com - You quote an 2009 article. LOL, how does the US bitch about the SCS *CURRENTLY*, while you at it, why don't you quote one in 1980s or even 1950 when China are hostile to the US?
> 
> Pentagon: China jet made 'unsafe' move near U.S. plane - CNNPolitics.com - The US protest about Chinese jet being unsafe, would you lodge a complaint if some stuntman start flying loop-de-loop over your home at low altitude?
> 
> U.S., Chinese warships come dangerously close - CNNPolitics.com - Again, old article, in 2013, the situation is esculated in 2015 in case if you haven't noticed
> 
> Chinese Warships Made ‘Innocent Passage’ Through U.S. Territorial Waters off Alaska - That's an article quote a normal procedure, US cannot protest something that is covered under international law. So if you want to access Panama Canal, how you can do it without entering Panama territorial water? Same thing to Chinese ship in Bering Strait.
> 
> at the end of the day, all Chinese can do is protest, maybe you should intercept the US fleet entering your so-called 12nm limit, let's see what will happen?



The only argument is the article is old? 

we intercepted you outside of 12nm all the time, US did nothing but bitch about it in the end.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## jhungary

sicsheep said:


> You should give the Monkey in your ZOO US citizenship, then you'd have longer history then all of humanity. hahahah
> 
> 
> 
> The only argument is the article is old?
> 
> we intercepted you outside of 12nm all the time, US did nothing but bitch about it in the end.



lol, and that's your response??

Anything actually solid to add?


----------



## BoQ77

It's Sovremenyy class Taizhou 138 destroyer. The same class used in exercise in Japan Sea which shot Moskit supersonic AShM.
A great warship class imported from Russia.
just slightly smaller than AB flight IIA 9200ton USS Lassen
===================
okay, there maybe some mistranlation.

China used to deploy Type-053H1/2 in Spratly islands area.
Vietnam Navy always meet them there when challenge the 12nm limit of Johnson South reef ( which Vietnam occupied before 1988 )


----------



## ahtan_china

Viva_Viet said:


> Those reefs are useless to us. Unifying sub Mekong region is much more important.
> 
> So,just let US fishing ships teach CN a lesson there.


So, smart Viet, ask your gov. retreat the soldier from SCS. return the reefs to CHN. The USA gived the benefit(TPP) to u, but u do nothing for your master. Don't believe Viet.


----------



## Zsari

jhungary said:


> Maybe you need to check my post again, I had *NEVER* said Article 87 forbid building Island.
> 
> I forgot which one but the article that define "International Waterway" in UNCLOS had explicitly defined any international waterway must be permanently neutral and there could not be any established Military Structure on any international waterway. Hence all international waterway must be demilitarized. It's like Panama Government trying to reclaim island for military use on Panama Canal. It's a violation of international law of the sea.
> 
> The Chinese are currently Militarizing the island by reclaiming the land and put military structure in it, the act would have been totally fine if SCS is actually agree upon to be inside China territorial water, but since the island is disputed, and basically only China itself recognize the area is in Chinese territorial water the act itself would be considered a violation to the so called "High Sea" law under UNCLOS.
> 
> As I said, either China break away from UNCLOS and start its own law, and then you lose the right to be protected by UNCLOS and the right to protest a la dog eat dog world. Or China comply to what UNCLOS set forth and protest against US aggression, again, you cannot have both.



You are talking about established Sea Lane, not International Waterway. Be very careful about legal document as different words carry very different implication. Chinese construction are on existing reefs and thus cannot possibly be anywhere near the existing Sea Lanes, or else ships will run aground.
Its ridiculous to suggest China to break away from UNCLOS as none of its action is in violation of the treaty.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## jhungary

Zsari said:


> You are talking about established Sea Lane, not International Waterway. Be very careful about legal document as different words carry very different implication. Chinese construction are on existing reefs and thus cannot possibly be anywhere near the existing Sea Lanes, or else ships will run aground.
> Its ridiculous to suggest China to break away from UNCLOS as none of its action is in violation of the treaty.



Actually, no. Panama Canal is an International Waterway.

In International Law, international waterways are straits, canals, and rivers that connect two areas of the high seas or enable ocean shipping to reach interior ports on international seas, gulfs, or lakes that otherwise would be land-locked. International waterways also may be rivers that serve as international boundaries or traverse successively two or more states. Ships have a right of passage through international waterways. This right is based on customary international law and treaty arrangements.

International Waterways legal definition of International Waterways

International Waterway have the same status as High Sea (International Water) and would see as an extend of the jurisdiction of high seas (Base on the simple principal that the canal, strait and river were connecting two area link to high seas.)

So, I am talking about international water. I just use panama canal as an example. If you are confused, I can use the Principality of Sealand as an example if you like

Under the Law of the Seas, High Seas, and connecting international waterways should not be militarized and should stay permanently neutral. Hence there is in fact a case against China militarizing an island or islands locating in High Seas in the UNCLOS tribunal. While Chinese argue the island is located within the territorial limit but not as in Exclusive Economic Zone of China. (Which would render those islands in the high seas)


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

It was not the Sovremenny class Taizhou "泰州", but the Type 053H1 class Taizhou "台州".


----------



## Zsari

jhungary said:


> Actually, no. Panama Canal is an International Waterway.
> 
> In International Law, international waterways are straits, canals, and rivers that connect two areas of the high seas or enable ocean shipping to reach interior ports on international seas, gulfs, or lakes that otherwise would be land-locked. International waterways also may be rivers that serve as international boundaries or traverse successively two or more states. Ships have a right of passage through international waterways. This right is based on customary international law and treaty arrangements.
> 
> International Waterways legal definition of International Waterways
> 
> International Waterway have the same status as High Sea (International Water) and would see as an extend of the jurisdiction of high seas (Base on the simple principal that the canal, strait and river were connecting two area link to high seas.)
> 
> So, I am talking about international water. I just use panama canal as an example. If you are confused, I can use the Principality of Sealand as an example if you like
> 
> Under the Law of the Seas, High Seas, and connecting international waterways should not be militarized and should stay permanently neutral. Hence there is in fact a case against China militarizing an island or islands locating in High Seas in the UNCLOS tribunal. While Chinese argue the island is located within the territorial limit but not as in Exclusive Economic Zone of China. (Which would render those islands in the high seas)



Man you are grasping on straw. South China Sea encompass a 1,400,000 sq mi area and you are comparing it to a 33meter wide canal? No one in a sane mind would classify the South China Sea as a "strait, canal, or river".

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## hoangsa

You guys Chinese here have so big mouth because you think war, if happen, will be far far away from your warm bed and never touch your hot bows of noodle. That the main reason you feel free to bully your smaller neighboors, and keep talking nice words but bad actions on sea, ignoring international laws.

In fact this year is just nothing happen, but end of next year 2016 or early of 2017, you will see the consequence of your bad actions in past years. Bad things starts in Subi reef but terrible things will happen in Senkaku island, then main course will be served in mainland. You are on your own, now. China vs the whole world


----------



## anon45

Dungeness said:


> Well, now they have a good reason to put even more there. See their office statement today:
> 
> "If any country thinks that, through some gimmicks, they will be able to interfere with or even prevent China from engaging in reasonable, legitimate and legal activities in its own territories, I want to suggest those countries give up such fantasy," ministry spokesman Lu Kang said.
> 
> "In fact, if relevant parties insist on creating tensions in the region and making trouble out of nothing,* it may force China to draw the conclusion that we need to strengthen and hasten the buildup of our relevant capabilities. I advise the U.S. not to create such a self-fulfilling prophecy*."



He is referring to China's navy, not the islands. The Islands are stationary aircraft carriers, that is to say they are sinkable (resurfacing) and sitting ducks to a country like the US. They are more symbolic against the US, but useful at any point short of open conflict with the US.

Joseph Nye interview: China's artificial isles are vulnerable, fixed targets- Nikkei Asian Review






Basically if China is attempting to arm these islands up against the US for open conflict, it's a futile task, plus it will alienate other SCS countries further.

I could see China using the US as an excuse though in order to build local superiority against other claimants. Both China and the US have ways to capitalize depending on their goals.


----------



## Dungeness

anon45 said:


> He is referring to China's navy, not the islands. The Islands are stationary aircraft carriers, that is to say they are sinkable (resurfacing) and sitting ducks to a country like the US. They are more symbolic against the US, but useful at any point short of open conflict with the US.
> 
> Joseph Nye interview: China's artificial isles are vulnerable, fixed targets- Nikkei Asian Review




It can be interpreted in many ways. It could mean China is ready to withdraw from their earlier stand that the islands would not be used for military purpose, as Xi announced during his trip to the US. In any case, a island is harder to sink than an aircraft carrier.


----------



## Carach Angren

anon45 said:


> The Islands are stationary aircraft carriers, that is to say they are sinkable (resurfacing) and sitting ducks to a country like the US.



Very much so, they can't be resupplied quickly, have limited supplies themselves, small outposts are pickets that warn a larger force and attempt to hold-out against or harass an opposing side. Still, having a lot of smaller islands engaged in an A2/AD type strategy can bring a rain of AShM to bear quickly and with devastating consequences. They wont survive a conflict, but they wont be brushed aside without troubles either. Right now China doesn't have enough to implement a large scale A2/AD strategy, so that's still an advantage the US can press.

As for small islands themselves.










Hardly as if taking on islands, defended or otherwise, is alien to the USAF and USN. If expanded, as in more islands are established for military purposes beyond a handful of airfields and artillery guns, they can represent a significant asymmetric threat. Right now they are not, but the situation is ongoing and dynamic. Expect more activity from both sides.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Dungeness

Carach Angren said:


> Very much so, they can't be resupplied quickly, have limited supplies themselves, small outposts are pickets that warn a larger force and attempt to hold-out or harass and opposing side. Still, having a lot of smaller islands engaged in an A2/AD type strategy can bring a rain of AShM to bear quickly and with devastating consequences. They wont survive a conflict, but they wont be brushed aside without troubles either. Right now China doesn't have enough to implement a large scale A2/AD strategy, so that's still an advantage the US can press.
> 
> As for small islands themselves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hardly as if taking on islands, defended or otherwise, is alien to the USAF and USN.




That is true if the islands do not have any air defense in place.


----------



## Solomon2

Zsari said:


> Brutality? Statement of brutality? Oh boy. Of course it matters as the relevant party can negotiate with ROC to get a more favorable term just as Japan has with its fishing right agreement.


That's China's fault for previously arguing that its own fishing arrangements with Japan compromised Japan's claims to sovereignty in disputed regions, yes? link You guys dug this hole yourselves, but I think if you pretend it never happened and stop thinking about what ROC might do that will be the most profitable and face-saving approach.


----------



## Aepsilons

Carach Angren said:


> Very much so, they can't be resupplied quickly, have limited supplies themselves, small outposts are pickets that warn a larger force and attempt to hold-out against or harass an opposing side. Still, having a lot of smaller islands engaged in an A2/AD type strategy can bring a rain of AShM to bear quickly and with devastating consequences. They wont survive a conflict, but they wont be brushed aside without troubles either. Right now China doesn't have enough to implement a large scale A2/AD strategy, so that's still an advantage the US can press.
> 
> As for small islands themselves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hardly as if taking on islands, defended or otherwise, is alien to the USAF and USN. If expanded, as in more islands are established for military purposes beyond a handful of airfields and artillery guns, they can represent a significant asymmetric threat. Right now they are not, but the situation is ongoing and dynamic. Expect more activity from both sides.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TaiShang

*Chinese religious sites found on South China Sea islands*
October 28, 2015

A Chinese expert has found Chinese religious sites on islands in the South China Sea, providing more evidence of China's sovereignty over the area.

With historical documents, archaeological findings and 50 photos from four years of field study, Chen Jinguo of the Institute of World Religions of the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences (CASS) believes that Chinese people built a lot of religious sites on the islands, their most important cultural features and the centers of fishermen's everyday life, according to his thesis published in "Religious Cultures of the World."

Chen said claims of sovereignty over the islands are based on historical occupation and so some countries have destroyed religious sites and added "historical" features of their own.

*Japanese Yoji Nishizawa occupied the Dongsha Islands in 1906 on the pretext of "discovering" them, changing their name to the Nishizawa Islands and destroying Chinese temples there.

Historical documents, archaeological findings, field studies and oral information have all recorded Chinese religious sites, an important basis for China's claim of sovereignty.*

Chen said Chinese religious sites in the South China Sea signify Chinese people's efforts to develop the waters.

He suggested that China pay more attention to rebuilding and protecting religious sites on some islands and developing traditional folk activities to safeguard territorial and cultural sovereignty.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Raphael

Siphan slams US for S China Sea actions , National, Phnom Penh Post

A Cambodian government spokesperson has publicly condemned the United States for sailing a warship close to disputed man-made islands in the South China Sea.

In a story published late Tuesday, Chinese state media outlet Xinhua reported that Phay Siphan, spokesman for the Council of Ministers, accused the US of “flexing its muscles” and creating tension around the contested Spratly islands.

“The US is not [an] involved party in this issue, so it should distance itself from this matter,” he was quoted as saying.

The USS Lassen, an armed destroyer, entered what China claims as a 21-kilometre territorial limit around the disputed territories on Tuesday.

Siphan repeated his criticism of the US in an interview yesterday.

“The truth hurts the United States, but it has to respect the parties involved resolving things themselves,” he said. “A warship in that area could escalate tensions. We are civilised people, and we don’t want anyone to resort to military means or violence.”

Cambodia would rather support an ASEAN code of conduct that was being hammered out by the organisation with the various claimants to the disputed territory, he said.

“We are a member of ASEAN,” Siphan said. “The parties need to sit down and talk in a patient way.”

However, just five months ago, the Cambodian government was vehemently opposed to ASEAN taking a role in resolving the dispute.

“ASEAN cannot resolve this problem because we are not a court that can judge who is right or wrong, or which piece of land or water belongs to which country,” Secretary of State Seung Rathchavy at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs told reporters at the time.

South China Sea expert Carl Thayer, emeritus professor of International Relations at University of New South Wales, yesterday said Cambodia’s current criticism of the US is part of a recent tendency to side with China.

“In 2012, when Cambodia was chairing ASEAN, Foreign Minister Hor Namhong took a very pro-China position and prevented the regional bloc putting out any statement mentioning the South China Sea dispute,” he said. “Cambodia was later rewarded by China with a big aid package and investment.”

Thayer added that aid and investment from China were more attractive to Cambodia than financial help from the US.

“China does not put conditions on aid around issues such as human rights, unlike the US and Europe,” he said.

But according to chairman of the Cambodian Institute for Strategic Studies, Chheang Vannarith, who is currently lecturing in the UK, Cambodia is not backing one super-power against another, but rather continuing a long-held policy of staying out of conflicts involving other states.

“It is not good for Cambodia’s long-term interests for it to take sides,” he said. “Cambodia has long pursued a policy of non-alignment and neutrality, which is laid down in the country’s constitution.”

He added that Cambodia’s own experience of resolving recent hostilities with neighbouring Thailand had shown it “that bilateral negotiations work best when it comes to sorting out differences”.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## DaiViet

When did Cambodia have any dispute in SCS? was it cambodia attempted to block CoC when it was Asean chair? Can these Cambodian learn to stay quiet. Sam rainsy used to kiss U.S azz, raising democracy, human right issue, however receive no U.S attention now try to kiss China azz?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TaiShang

sicsheep said:


> LOL really?
> Pentagon says Chinese vessels harassed U.S. ship - CNN.com
> Pentagon: China jet made 'unsafe' move near U.S. plane - CNNPolitics.com
> U.S., Chinese warships come dangerously close - CNNPolitics.com
> Chinese Warships Made ‘Innocent Passage’ Through U.S. Territorial Waters off Alaska



Eh he he... Nice catch!

Lots of tears shed. 

Just as Hillary Clinton were going berserk upon China-Russia veto on US war campaign against Syria.

***

*US has no hope to win S.China Sea showdown*
2015-10-29 1:33:02

Calling the _USS Lassen_'s intrusion a "regular occurrence," the US military put a gloss on its recent brazen provocation against China in the South China Sea, implying that more warships might be sent within the 12 nautical mile-limit around China-controlled islands. China will have to escalate its countermeasures if Washington does so, and the situation will worsen for the US.

*If such provocations continue, China's warships will have to engage in more face-offs with their US counterparts in the South China Sea. Beijing will be forced to accelerate military deployment in the region, including a quicker militarization of the islands to the extent that China can confront the US militarily in this region.

If the US is determined that these provocations are going to be regular events, it is possible that China will deploy fighter jets on these new islands. *

China has reiterated that the expanded islands in the South China Sea will serve peaceful and civilian purposes, supporting economic development around the South China Sea. China has no intention to militarize the region, but the US, despite China's assertion is pushing, even forcing, China in that direction.

US military policymakers are so narrow-minded that they cannot look at the big picture, cherishing the illusion that it could show off its might, embrace allies' cheers and frustrate China's confidence by sending a warship to the South China Sea.

It is hard to believe that these shortsighted wonks have not considered China's response, like Beijing has no cards to play.* If it wasn't for our restraint, China could have driven away every Filipino and Vietnamese from the islands they took from China, but it didn't.* Almost every move China has made in the South China Sea is a response to the provocations of these aggressors. 

*Washington should keep in mind that it really doesn't want China to transform these reclaimed islands into outposts to deal with the intrusions by US warships.*

Even in the worst scenario, if China decided to militarize all these small islands, what could the US do? Perhaps US President Barack Obama will have everything but the guts to wage a real battle with China for these small islands.

The Americans must keep in mind that when it comes to China's core interests, their determination to preserve certain strategic interests will have no chance to win in a showdown against China's determination to protect the integrity of its sovereignty. After flexing its muscles and bragging about its military prowess at China's doorstep, Washington should know when to stop. Enough is enough.

***

I feel these are last warnings.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zarvan

Subi reef, located in the disputed Spratly Islands in the South China Sea, is shown in this handout Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS) Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative satellite image taken September 3, 2015 and released to Reuters October 27, 2015.
REUTERS/CSIS ASIA MARITIME TRANSPARENCY INITIATIVE/DIGITALGLOBE/HANDOUT VIA REUTERS

Two Australian warships will hold exercises with the Chinese navy in the South China Sea next week, Australia's defense minister said on Thursday, just days after a U.S. navy patrol near a man-made Chinese island in the disputed waters angered Beijing.

The HMAS Stuart and HMAS Arunta will visit China's main South China Sea base of Zhanjiang in the southern province of Guangdong ahead of drills scheduled for early next week, Marise Payne said.

"The Royal Australian Navy has a long history of engagement with regional navies and regularly conducts port visits and exercises — including in China," Payne said in a statement.

"There have been no changes or delays to the schedule of the HMAS Arunta and HMAS Stuart since the United States activity in the South China Sea on 27 October 2015."

The statement gave no details on the precise location for the exercise. Australian media said it would include live-fire drills.

China rebuked Washington for sending a U.S. guided-missile destroyer close to Subi Reef in the Spratly archipelago on Tuesday, saying it had tracked and warned the USS Lassen and called in the American ambassador to protest.

Australia, a key U.S. ally in the region, expressed its strong support for freedom of navigation, while stopping short of welcoming the patrol.

Speculation has risen that Australia might undertake similar exercises, either alongside the U.S. navy or on its own, but any move would risk antagonizing top trading partner China.

Euan Graham, director of the International Security Program at the Lowy Institute in Sydney, said Australia would want to try and avoid being seen as "deputy sheriff" to the United States in the region.

"It would be more effective to demonstrate broader international concerns if Australia were to assert freedom of navigation under its own political and operational banner and not to ride U.S. coat-tails," he said.

Earlier this week, senior government senator Arthur Sinodinos told Sky News that Australia did not have "any plans to do what the United States has done" in relation to freedom of navigation exercises.

"Australia has a legitimate interest in the maintenance of peace and stability, respect for international law, unimpeded trade and freedom of navigation and overflight in the South China Sea," Payne said, without addressing whether Australia was planning similar exercises.

China claims most of the South China Sea, through which more than $5 trillion of world trade passes every year. Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei, the Philippines and Taiwan have rival claims.

On Wednesday, a French frigate docked at Zhanjiang for a four-day visit ahead of French President Francois Hollande's trip to China next week.



(Reporting by Lincoln Feast; Editing by Dean Yates)


Australia to join Chinese navy exercises in South China Sea| Reuters

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## ahtan_china

Carach Angren said:


> Very much so, they can't be resupplied quickly, have limited supplies themselves, small outposts are pickets that warn a larger force and attempt to hold-out against or harass an opposing side. Still, having a lot of smaller islands engaged in an A2/AD type strategy can bring a rain of AShM to bear quickly and with devastating consequences. They wont survive a conflict, but they wont be brushed aside without troubles either. Right now China doesn't have enough to implement a large scale A2/AD strategy, so that's still an advantage the US can press.
> 
> As for small islands themselves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hardly as if taking on islands, defended or otherwise, is alien to the USAF and USN. If expanded, as in more islands are established for military purposes beyond a handful of airfields and artillery guns, they can represent a significant asymmetric threat. Right now they are not, but the situation is ongoing and dynamic. Expect more activity from both sides.


1Welcome The HQ-9 air deffence missle will be waiting for your coming.
2 It seems the begining of WWIII.


----------



## BoQ77

Jianghu II (Type 053H1)
Frigate

SPECIFICATIONS

Displacement: (standard load) 1,425 tons; (full load) 1,702 tons
Dimensions: Length 103.2 m; Beam 10.8 m, Draft 3.05 m
Propulsion: Early variants were fitted with steam boilers, but they have all been replaced by diesel engines. 4 SEMT-Pielstick diesels, 2 shafts, 14,000 hp (Jianghu-II 16,000 hp)
Speed: 26 knots
Crew: 190
Radar (Air search): Type 354 (Eye Shield) 2D air/surface search, E-band; (Jianghu-II only) Type 517A (Knife Rest) 2D long-range air search, A-Band
Radar (Surface search/fire control): Type 352 (Square Tie) surface search/SSM homing, I-Band; (Jianghu-II only) Type 343 (Wasp Head), G/H-band (SSM and 100 mm main gun targeting)
Sonar: EH-5 hull mounted MF
Weapon Controls: Optronic directors (main gun targeting)
ECM/EW: Jug Pair intercept; Mk137 decoy RL (in some ships), IFF
Missiles: 6 SY-1 SSMs, two triple launchers; active radar homing to 35 km at 0.8 Mach, warhead 513 kg, liquid fuel
SAM: (On some units only) 4~8 PL-9C SAMs, IR homing
Guns: 2 single 100mm/56 cal main guns, 22 km; four manual dual 37 mm AAA, 8.5 km; (544 only has one French-made compact 100 mm main gun and 2 dual 37 mm AAA)
A/S Mortars: 2 Type 62 5-tubed fix launchers
Depth Charges: 2 or 4 Type 81 ASW RL, 2 DC racks


----------



## TaiShang

Soldiers ride in boats from a destroyer to conduct a visit, board, search and seizure training exercise aboard a simulated enemy vessel. Recently, a guided-missile destroyer flotilla under the South China Sea Fleet of the PLA Navy organized its warships to conduct a realistic confrontation training exercise, including such subjects as formation offense and defense, visit, board, search and seizure, anti-shore firing at night and anti-aircraft firing in complex electromagnetic environment.




Guided-missile destroyers sail in a sea area of the South China Sea during a confrontation drill. Recently, a guided-missile destroyer flotilla under the South China Sea Fleet of the PLA Navy organized its warships to conduct a realistic confrontation training exercise, including such subjects as formation offense and defense, visit, board, search and seizure, anti-shore firing at night and anti-aircraft firing in complex electromagnetic environment.




Guided-missile destroyers sail in a sea area of the South China Sea during a confrontation drill. Recently, a guided-missile destroyer flotilla under the South China Sea Fleet of the PLA Navy organized its warships to conduct a realistic confrontation training exercise, including such subjects as formation offense and defense, visit, board, search and seizure, anti-shore firing at night and anti-aircraft firing in complex electromagnetic environment




Guided-missile destroyers sail in a sea area of the South China Sea during a confrontation drill. Recently, a guided-missile destroyer flotilla under the South China Sea Fleet of the PLA Navy organized its warships to conduct a realistic confrontation training exercise, including such subjects as formation offense and defense, visit, board, search and seizure, anti-shore firing at night and anti-aircraft firing in complex electromagnetic environment.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## mike jones

ahtan_china said:


> 1Welcome The HQ-9 air deffence missle will be waiting for your coming.
> 2 It seems the begining of WWIII.



You're welcome.


----------



## jhungary

Zsari said:


> Man you are grasping on straw. South China Sea encompass a 1,400,000 sq mi area and you are comparing it to a 33meter wide canal? No one in a sane mind would classify the South China Sea as a "strait, canal, or river".



Did you actually look at my post before replying? Or you simply saw that I used the Panama Canal as an example and you assume I think SCS and Panama Canal is the same thing?

*WHERE DID I COMPARE THE ACTUAL SOUTH CHINA SEA TO PANAMA CANAL?
*
I have compared the *STATUS* of SCS and Panama Canal. Both Status is the same while SCS is on the high seas and Panama Canal is an international waterway. Which as I explained before,* High Seas and International Waterway share the same right and  are of equal status. You cannot build military structure in international waterway, as with you cannot build military structure high seas.*

As I said in my previous post, if you don't like my Panama Canal example, I can use the Principality of Sealand as an example.

This is the second time this happen, you are seeing something I did not say. Suggest that you go find an eye doctor or a brain doctor for a quick check up, cause you are seeing things that weren't there.


----------



## Viva_Viet

ahtan_china said:


> So, smart Viet, ask your gov. retreat the soldier from SCS. return the reefs to CHN. The USA gived the benefit(TPP) to u, but u do nothing for your master. Don't believe Viet.


SCS( east sea) is just like your throat, of course your throat is useless for me...but its quite fun when strangling your throat

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TaiShang

As the capability grows, China will enforce the rules. Period。

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## dichoi

TaiShang said:


> As the capability grows, China will enforce the rules. Period。


----------



## ahtan_china

mike jones said:


> You're welcome.


The illegal building of SCS is challenging the world police's ability. Come on. Uncle Sam



Viva_Viet said:


> SCS( east sea) is just like your throat, of course your throat is useless for me...but its quite fun when strangling your throat


Don't angry. Don't just talk. Retreat the reef of SCS or follow your master to patrol the reef. don't be afraid. Come on, dude. Take action.


----------



## Zero_wing

TaiShang said:


> There is no country really supporting you, except the US for their ulterior motives.
> 
> You are at each other's throats with Vietnam because you also invaded and stole their island in the SCS. You will pay for that dearly once Vietnam is capable enough. Now you are too weak to directly engage each other.
> 
> The world does not give crap about your island sickness. Most people do not even know of the situation. People have their own more important headaches. Why would day lose time to worry about for some sad Pinoy?
> 
> Japanese like to encourage you to pest China because Japan has territorial disputes with all of its neighbors.



Hahaha laughable reply as always I can name a lot country that support our peaceful efforts Russia for one Japan, South Korea, Most ASEAN countries half of the world your arrogance is showing troll bit plus its real unlike your stupid arrogant claims with no real basis in reality so again.









dichoi said:


>



Man the chinese Imperial trolls are in buzz killing frenzy laughable clowns


----------



## Zero_wing

Well why not i mean Cambodia is getting Billions from China


----------



## xunzi

Until anyone comes and try to stop our rightful territorial buildup, then there is no such thing as a China defeat. Grow ball and come and stop us.


----------



## Viva_Viet

ahtan_china said:


> Don't angry. Don't just talk. Retreat the reef of SCS or follow your master to patrol the reef. don't be afraid. Come on, dude. Take action.


Sure, we will invite US fishing ships to Take more action there


----------



## 70U63




----------



## xunzi

anon45 said:


> Rest of the world says SCS is not your territory, we will continue sailing where we want to prove it.
> 
> Also be specific, they are not Islands, they are *Artificial* Islands.
> 
> 
> *shrug* believe they are unsinkable if you want to, there is a reason the US navy calls them grapes, and GPS coordinates are all we need to sink them.


It is all countries rights to sail in any international sea and air space, and not exclusive to the US rights. Get that facts straight.

They are islands now so the sooner you accept it, the better it is for the world.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## BuddhaPalm

Forward deployment now to turn Spratly islands into naval and airbases. The SCS ADIZ could be declared anytime!

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## mike jones

Viva_Viet said:


> SCS( east sea) is just like your throat, of course your throat is useless for me...but its quite fun when strangling your throat



lol!!


ahtan_china said:


> The illegal building of SCS is challenging the world police's ability. Come on. Uncle Sam
> 
> 
> Don't angry. Don't just talk. Retreat the reef of SCS or follow your master to patrol the reef. don't be afraid. Come on, dude. Take action.



Why you so angry? Have a coolaid. Of course, it is *Made in the USA*. Not the poison you been drinking in China. Just for you bro.






Uncle Sam? You mean US, they don't care about SCS, they care about their freedom of navagation. So they can ship more coolaids to you. You're welcome.


----------



## xunzi

We must militarized the SCS before the US did so. It is to protect regional peace from outsiders after all.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## BuddhaPalm

China Headlines: U.S. ship patrolling in South China Sea counterproductive - Xinhua | English.news.cn

Subi reef is submerged at high tide so it is not entitled to a 12 nm territorial sea. Tracking with navy ships and aircraft was enough to drive them away. Now the US navy is getting ready to send their navy to islands and rocks in the South China Sea. PLAN and PLAAF have forward deployed.

Xinhua already declared: it's time for ramming!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Arya Desa

They destroyed a coral reef to build a base...


----------



## TaiShang

*Cambodia and China to cooperate on security*
Mon, 26 October 2015

Cambodia has endorsed China’s appeals for greater ASEAN security cooperation in fighting terrorism following Friday’s ministerial dialogue on regional law enforcement and security in Beijing, according to Chinese state media.

The calls came during the two-day summit at which China’s vice-minister of public security, Li Wei emphasised the need for more intelligence exchange and joint investigations, in particular in relation to the activities of the East Turkestan Islamic Movement, which Beijing deems terrorists.

Based in China’s restive western regions, the militant Uighur separatist group is believed to have ties to Muslim extremism, and Chinese police have claimed that its members have illegally crossed into Thailand, Vietnam and Malaysia en route to the Middle East for training.

Sar Kheng, Cambodian vice-prime minister, is reported to have said it is necessary to establish an efficient and high-level communication platform under which ASEAN countries and China could build trust in combating such crimes.

However, rights groups have expressed concern that these mechanisms could be used as cover to airbrush ill-treatment of Uighurs and conflate refugees with terrorists.

“Cambodia and Thailand have now shown their willingness to toss aside basic obligations under international law to do Beijing’s bidding on this issue,” says Sophie Richardson, Human Rights Watch’s China director.

“Instead of blithely approving of Beijing’s approach, ASEAN countries should be pushing China to respect the rights to freedom of religious belief, freedom from discrimination, and freedom of movement.”

The Ministry of Interior declined to comment yesterday.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## TaiShang

xunzi said:


> We must militarized the SCS before the US did so. It is to protect regional peace from outsiders after all.



Increased build-up efforts and force deployment are on the line. These are often done without much publicity. That's why the scale of China's island development program appears to be so dramatic.

What is missing is the development is the result of an extensive logistics. Of course no one knows until some satellite picture reveals it.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## TaiShang

BuddhaPalm said:


> China Headlines: U.S. ship patrolling in South China Sea counterproductive - Xinhua | English.news.cn
> 
> Subi reef is submerged at high tide so it is not entitled to a 12 nm territorial sea. Tracking with navy ships and aircraft was enough to drive them away. Now the US navy is getting ready to send their navy to islands and rocks in the South China Sea. PLAN and PLAAF have forward deployed.
> 
> Xinhua already declared: it's time for ramming!



Looks like the conventional sets of actions have been taken in confrontation the US breach of China's sovereign waters. 

If the US steps up the ante, so will China. 

But give some months until the next US stunt.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

The HQ-9 SAM is now deployed on the islands.

Reactions: Like Like:
23


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

Excellent. 

Now there is no reason for us not to do it.

Next America will say, now they have a reason to militarize Alaska:

Chinese navy ships entered U.S. waters off Alaska - CNNPolitics.com

Reactions: Like Like:
15


----------



## TaiShang

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The HQ-9 SAM is now deployed on the islands.
> 
> View attachment 267946
> 
> 
> View attachment 267947



Looking nice. 

Minimum requirement for peace-keeping in the region.

The deployment and build-up will only speed up to ensure that freedom and liberty is protected.

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Then a new ADIZ on the SCS will follow.

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## TaiShang

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Then a new ADIZ on the SCS will follow.



I guess the first concrete result of the build-up is going to be an ADIZ over the SCS.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

TaiShang said:


> I guess the first concrete result of the build-up is going to be an ADIZ over the SCS.



Regardless of the US, China will still militarize the island soon or later.

However, the US has just recently knocked China's door, so it has provided more reasons for China to proceed this determination right now.

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## TaiShang

Zero_wing said:


> Hahaha laughable reply as always I can name a lot country that support our peaceful efforts Russia for one Japan, South Korea, Most ASEAN countries half of the world your arrogance is showing troll bit plus its real unlike your stupid arrogant claims with no real basis in reality so again.
> 
> View attachment 267939
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Man the chinese Imperial trolls are in buzz killing frenzy laughable clowns



Is it exactly "half of the world"? Maybe a little more or a little less?

We are building up to ensure peace and security. The world knows it.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Then a new ADIZ on the SCS will follow.



Step by step, our interests are advancing.

And despite America's crying about our island building, it is still going strong.

And despite America's crying about the AIIB, it is still going strong.

Now let's hear them cry some more, maybe about Russia bombing their precious ISIL in the Middle East, or Crimea, or about "Chinese hacking".

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Step by step, our interests are advancing.
> 
> And despite America's crying about our island building, it is still going strong.
> 
> And despite America's crying about the AIIB, it is still going strong.
> 
> Now let's hear them cry some more, maybe about Russia bombing their precious ISIL in the Middle East, or Crimea, or about "Chinese hacking".



Remember what Xi Jinping has said before; the world is big enough for China and the US to coexist together, and the US will take more time to adapt this coming trend.

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## xunzi

It is good to know that we are taking step to protect ourselves. There will be no one to protect ourselves but ourselves. All should remember this.

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## TaiShang

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Step by step, our interests are advancing.
> 
> And despite America's crying about our island building, it is still going strong.
> 
> And despite America's crying about the AIIB, it is still going strong.
> 
> Now let's hear them cry some more, maybe about Russia bombing their precious ISIL in the Middle East, or Crimea, or about "Chinese hacking".



The rest of the world is taking note of US incapacity. They still fear the US, that's for sure, but, people no longer think the US is the only decision maker. 

Mr. Putin smashed that perception. China has been doing its part, as well, on less militaristic grounds.

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

TaiShang said:


> The rest of the world is taking note of US incapacity. They still fear the US, that's for sure, but, people no longer think the US is the only decision maker.
> 
> Mr. Putin smashed that perception. China has been doing its part, as well, on less militaristic grounds.



Putin is doing the job in the western front, while China is charging in the eastern front.

So some non-Chinese friends shouldn't blame China for not directly involving in Syria, since Russia and China are coordinating with each other.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## TaiShang

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Putin is doing the job in the western front, while China is charging in the eastern front.
> 
> So some non-Chinese friends shouldn't blame China for not directly involving in Syria, since Russia and China are coordinating with each other.



It might be evolving into the anti-fascist war we fought some 60 years ago. Luckily, this time over, if they dare to attack us, we have the capability to bring a total destruction on their own lands.

Hence, we see posing here and there with no real teeth.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

TaiShang said:


> It might be evolving into the anti-fascist war we fought some 60 years ago.



The history will just keep repeating, since it is an endless loop.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## anon45

xunzi said:


> It is all countries rights to sail in any international sea and air space, and not exclusive to the US rights. Get that facts straight.
> 
> They are islands now so the sooner you accept it, the better it is for the world.



Exactly, the US was sailing through international waters, so no Chinese anger or huffing and puffing is warranted.
They are not islands entitled to territorial waters under international law, the sooner you accept it, the better it is for China.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## TaiShang

anon45 said:


> They are not islands entitled to territorial waters under international law, the sooner you accept it, the better it is for China.



They are islands and growing. And all within international law.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## anon45

TaiShang said:


> They are islands and growing. And all within international law.



Nope to territorial waters we will continue to demonstrate it.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TaiShang

anon45 said:


> Nope to territorial waters we will continue to demonstrate it.



No. India will do jack.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## C130

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The HQ-9 SAM is now deployed on the islands.
> 
> View attachment 267946
> 
> 
> View attachment 267947




you make it sound like this wasn't the plan all along 


china becoming more imperialist by the year.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

C130 said:


> you make it sound like this wasn't the plan all along
> 
> 
> china becoming more imperialist by the year.



More imperialist than the imperialists themselves? Not a chance. 

Give me a call when China invades 3 separate countries in a single decade, like America did from 2001-2011 (Afghanistan, Libya, Iraq). Not counting bombing and drone attacks in other countries like Syria, otherwise the number would be countless.

Reactions: Like Like:
17


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

C130 said:


> you make it sound like this wasn't the plan all along
> 
> 
> china becoming more imperialist by the year.



defending sovereignty ≠ imperialistic attitude

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## TaiShang

C130 said:


> you make it sound like this wasn't the plan all along
> 
> 
> china becoming more imperialist by the year.



Becoming more peace-oriented, to be exact.

Peace through strength. Did not Mahan teach you so?

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## terranMarine

C130 said:


> you make it sound like this wasn't the plan all along
> 
> 
> china becoming more imperialist by the year.


 haven't looked at the mirror yet with all the wars the US has been waging for the past decades? When it comes to stealing land your ancestors (Europeans) are 2nd to none

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## anon45

TaiShang said:


> No. India will do jack.



 glad to see you acknowledge your vulnerability TaiShang.


----------



## TaiShang

anon45 said:


> glad to see you acknowledge your vulnerability TaiShang.



You are Indian. So, leave *we* (India) aside.

The issue is between the US and China.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## JSCh

OT, but somewhat relevant, regarding Indian official position vis a vis US.

*US regularly conducts operational challenges in Indian EEZ - The Economic Times*
By PTI | 20 Oct, 2015, 04.23PM IST

WASHINGTON: The US does not recognise India's territorial claims with regard to territorial waters and exclusive economic zone and has been conducting operational challenges to such claims on a regular interval, US Defence Department officials said.

"India maintains an excessive maritime claim requiring prior consent for military exercises or manoeuvres in its Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ)," a senior Defence Department official told PTI when asked about a recent White House statement that US has challenged India's territorial claims in EEZs.

"The US diplomatically protested the claim in 2007 and conducted operational challenges in 1999, 2001, and 2008 through 2014," said the official, who requested anonymity.

While it is not known what was India's response in these operational challenges by the US naval forces, publicly available information says the United States does not recognise this India's territorial claims since 1976 with regard to territorial waters, continental shelf, exclusive economic zone and other maritime zones.

The US first protested way back in 1976, and then in 1983 and 1997.

And as such the Pentagon has been regularly conducting operational assertions since 1985.

India requires foreign warships to provide notice before entering its territorial water as defined and identified by it.

The Pentagon said it has been carrying out operational challenges in territorial sea, which India says is its own and as such foreign warships need to seek permission from it and notify it, since 1985.

Its warships entered India's EEZ without notifying India multiple times between 1985 through 1989.

After a gap of two years, US warships is believed to have entered Indian EEZs without notifying India or seeking permission from it in 1991, through 1994, 1996, 1997, 1999, 2001, 2007 and 2011.

US warships did the same multiple times in 2014.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## sicsheep

C130 said:


> you make it sound like this wasn't the plan all along
> 
> 
> china becoming more imperialist by the year.



It was the plan all along, USA just made it seems more legit

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## BuddhaPalm

We are escalating the showdown appropriately. Now we are forward deploying and challenging trespassers with collision. Xinhua already declared our intention directly.

China Headlines: U.S. ship patrolling in South China Sea counterproductive - Xinhua | English.news.cn

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## C130

sicsheep said:


> It was the plan all along, USA just made it seems more legit



come on now. the charade is over. was your people going to build a hotel resort and casino on these islands mate  don't tell me one messily destroyer that the great PLAN followed the entire time is concerned now.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## 大汉奸柳传志

the US is really doing China a favor.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## anon45

TaiShang said:


> You are Indian. So, leave *we* (India) aside.
> 
> The issue is between the US and China.


Shhh i'm reading a good thread I don't want to deal with trolls.


----------



## Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The HQ-9 SAM is now deployed on the islands.
> 
> View attachment 267946
> 
> 
> View attachment 267947


all for civil and peaceful purposes I guess.



TaiShang said:


> Looking nice.
> 
> Minimum requirement for peace-keeping in the region.
> 
> The deployment and build-up will only speed up to ensure that *freedom *and *liberty *is protected.


freedom and liberty. perfect. who will say no?
China will be the next country becoming the Nobel peace price. congrat.


----------



## ahtan_china

Viva_Viet said:


> Sure, we will invite US fishing ships to Take more action there


Again, Don't just talk. Take action. 
One more, US is your master. Viet (slave) should beg master Take action, not "invite"…

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> all for civil and peaceful purposes I guess.



China will safeguard the SCS peacefully.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

Viet said:


> all for civil and peaceful purposes I guess.



Absolutely.

Peaceful nukes, peaceful Carrier killer ballistic missiles, peaceful artillery.

It's all peaceful... until we actually use it.  AFTER we start using it to kill people like America is doing all over the Middle East (invading 3 countries in a single decade), then you can say it's no longer peaceful.

Until then, it's still peaceful.

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> China will safeguard the SCS peacefully.


I have very mad mood today. don´t tell bullshit to me.


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

Viet said:


> I have very mad mood today. don´t tell bullshit to me.



Alright, tell me what YOU want to hear, and I will tell that to you, if it makes you feel better.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Viet

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Absolutely.
> 
> Peaceful nukes, peaceful Carrier killer ballistic missiles, peaceful artillery.
> 
> It's all peaceful... until we actually use it.  AFTER we start using it to kill people like America is doing all over the Middle East (invading 3 countries in a single decade), then you can say it's no longer peaceful.
> 
> Until then, it's still peaceful.


China is NOT a peaceful country. making less wars than America doesn´t mean you are peaceful. LESS aggressive is a proper term.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> I have very mad mood today. don´t tell bullshit to me.



Just take easy buddy.

When China has declared the ADIZ in the ESC, Japan just sit there and doing nothing.

I assume same for Vietnam when China is going to declare the new ADIZ in the coming November/December.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Alright, tell me what YOU want to hear, and I will tell that to you, if it makes you feel better.


how about signing a non-aggression pact between China and Vietnam?


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

Viet said:


> China is NOT a peaceful country. making less wars than America does mean you are peaceful.
> LESS aggressive is a proper term.



The definition of "peace" is the "absence of war".

America launched 3 separate invasions of 3 separate countries in the last decade alone from 2001-2011. They are currently in a state of WAR.

China is currently in a state of peace, since we are not fighting any wars. And we haven't for the past few decades.

That could all change very quickly though, that's why I put "peace" in inverted commas.  It's all peaceful... right up to the moment in which war starts.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Azeri440

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The HQ-9 SAM is now deployed on the islands.
> 
> View attachment 267946
> 
> 
> View attachment 267947



are you sure? 

those aren't even SAMs , that's a shore based anti-ship missile system 
and the original source doesn't mention anything about deployment on islands , only as regular training

南海舰队岸导团出动 演练反舰导弹攻击_武进新闻网

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

Viet said:


> how about signing a non-aggression pact between China and Vietnam?



In exchange for what exactly?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Azeri440 said:


> are you sure?
> 
> those aren't even SAMs , that's a shore based anti-ship missile system
> and the original source doesn't mention anything about deployment on islands , only as regular training
> 
> 南海舰队岸导团出动 演练反舰导弹攻击_武进新闻网



These are HQ-9 SAM, make no mistake.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## dy1022

C130 said:


> you make it sound like this wasn't the plan all along
> 
> 
> china becoming more imperialist by the year.





Alarming, My friend!

I'm so scared about the mighty US warship , I was crying all the time in yesterday.

So we have to protect our safety in there!

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Azeri440

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> These are HQ-9 SAM, make no mistake.
> 
> View attachment 267957



yes , but the photos you posted as a source , is a YJ-62A system

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## TaiShang

anon45 said:


> Shhh i'm reading a good thread I don't want to deal with trolls.



You are Indian so stop pretending to be someone else.

Read this thread like an Indian does.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## terranMarine

Viva_Viet said:


> Sure, we will invite US fishing ships to Take more action there


Are you scared already?


----------



## pher

Viet said:


> I have very mad mood today. don´t tell bullshit to me.


haha, why do you become so agitated now? Didn't you just have your best time yesterday?

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Hamartia Antidote

BoQ77 said:


> Jianghu II (Type 053H1)
> Frigate
> 
> SPECIFICATIONS
> 
> *Displacement:* (standard load) *1,425 tons*; (full load) *1,702 tons*
> Dimensions*: Length 103.2 m*; Beam 10.8 m, Draft 3.05 m
> Propulsion: Early variants were fitted with steam boilers, but they have all been replaced by diesel engines. 4 SEMT-Pielstick diesels, 2 shafts, 14,000 hp (Jianghu-II 16,000 hp)
> *Speed: 26 knots*



USS Lassen (DDG-82) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

*Displacement: 9,200 tons 
Length:* 509 ft 6 in (*155.30 m*)
Beam: 66 ft (20 m)
Draft: 31 ft (9.4 m)
Propulsion: 4 × General Electric LM2500-30 gas turbines, 2 shafts, 100,000 shp (75 MW)
*Speed*: *exceeds 30 knots* (56 km/h; 35 mph)





A US 9000 ton Destroyer at "Flank" speed.


----------



## volatile

How about some batteries of S-400


----------



## TaiShang

terranMarine said:


> yeah those animals were cheering along with the yankees, now the destroyer has left the scene and China is gonna militarize our islands, mood suddenly became depressive and scared. @Viva_Viet didn't want the Americans to leave  and is now making an emergency call "WE NEED YOU BACK"



Lots of hearts will remain broken until the next US-led stunt on China's doorways.

They are actually hoping for an armed conflict.

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## dy1022

What???


What's wrong with XXX???

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cnleio

Jlaw said:


> Either he said that or it was misquoted in English news. I cannot read the Chinese newspaper so other who know this can say if it's mistranslated or he actually said this. If he did say it I am not surprised because if it's a Chinese strategy of keeping a low profile and continue modernization, it's starting to wane.
> 
> @cnleio @Martian2 what did the Chinese general say from Chinese sources?


LOL ... the PLA General Fan indeed said exactly the wrong thing, and show off a wrong signal from China to the U.S.















Today China missed Mao ZeDong ... and that PLA General showing the weak to American.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## dichoi




----------



## Zero_wing

TaiShang said:


> Is it exactly "half of the world"? Maybe a little more or a little less?
> 
> We are building up to ensure peace and security. The world knows it.



Ya the world know that chinese imperial propaganda with no realtruth to it so say it to some who give an f imperial


----------



## dichoi

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> These are HQ-9 SAM, make no mistake.
> 
> View attachment 267957



This is fake product, copied from Russia. For parade is OK.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## HRM YANG

volatile said:


> How about some batteries of S-400


It's like using flakk 88 to shoot the raven, when using s-400 to kick Vietnam su-30 ***

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## dichoi

HRM YANG said:


> It's like using flakk 88 to shoot the raven, when using s-400 to kick Vietnam su-30 ***



we can destroy your fake Island from our mainland.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## HRM YANG

dichoi said:


> This is fake product, copied from Russia. For parade is OK.


This "toy" could also kick your ***.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## dichoi

HRM YANG said:


> This "toy" could also kick your ***.



by start, it will getting explosived immediately and fallen down on your heads.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cnleio

BoQ77 said:


> It's Sovremenyy class Taizhou 138 destroyer. The same class used in exercise in Japan Sea which shot Moskit supersonic AShM.
> A great warship class imported from Russia.
> just slightly smaller than AB flight IIA 9200ton USS Lassen
> ===================
> okay, there maybe some mistranlation.
> 
> China used to deploy Type-053H1/2 in Spratly islands area.
> Vietnam Navy always meet them there when challenge the 12nm limit of Johnson South reef ( which Vietnam occupied before 1988 )


Not Soveremeny with American DDG, it's type052C DDG and type053H1 FFG with USN Lassen in SCS ... PLAN 4x Sovremenny-class DDGs all deployed in China East Sea Fleet not in SCS, and two of them under modernization rebuilding to add VLS cells to replace orignal SA-N-7.


----------



## HRM YANG

dichoi said:


> we can destroy your fake Island from our mainland.


Good destroy, indeed your missiles crush those fishes to death in South CHINA Sea like Vietnameses wash their feet right there, and... indeed a good destroy!



dichoi said:


> by start, it will getting explosived immediately and fallen down on your heads.


It's "above" , myfriend... yeah prevent from misunderstand, and you forget to say that would be a Vietnam bird down from sky and with a fire on ***! oh yeah!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## dichoi

HRM YANG said:


> Good destroy, indeed your missiles crush those fishes to death in South CHINA Sea like Vietnameses wash their feet right there, and... indeed a good destroy!



Our missiles is origin made by Russia. You can sea how Russian killed IS in Syria by such toys..

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

cnleio said:


> Not Soveremeny with American DDG, it's type052C DDG and type053H1 FFG with USN Lassen in SCS ... PLAN 4x Sovremenny-class DDGs all deployed in China East Sea Fleet not in SCS, and two of them under modernization rebuilding to add VLS cells to replace orignal SA-N-7.



Thanks.
US navy official said that "there's ONE Chinese warship behinded the DDG 82 from a safe distance, and no intercept or something".

So is it 052C or 053H1 ?



> * Xi to visit Vietnam, Singapore next week *
> Chinese President Xi Jinping will pay a state visit to Vietnam from Nov. 5 to 6 at the invitation of General Secretary of the Communist Party of Vietnam (CPV) Nguyen Phu Trong and Vietnamese President Truong Tan Sang, Foreign Ministry spokesperson Lu Kang announced Thursday.
> Xi will pay a state visit to Singapore from Nov. 6 to 7 at the invitation of his Singaporean counterpart Tony Tan Keng Yam, Lu said.


----------



## CN.Black

CCP said:


> Well, that Vietnamese navy frigate(HQ-011) is just visiting Collins Reef/ Đảo Cô Lin with Chinese frigate 537 at that day.
> (Vietnamese structure on Collins Reef)
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Here is the positions of Collin Reef and Johnson Reef.
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> more pics
> Chinese frigate 537.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


HQ011 is not a frigate.It is a corvette.VN is a weak navy without any frigate or destroyer.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Kyle Sun

Wait a min!

Which island ?

I am sure China will deploy weapon on those islands but I can not believe we get this done so soon.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## dichoi

terranMarine said:


> Are you scared already?



I think Chinese is afraid from US now, you can change your pan quickly, .

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## volatile

Buddy my reference is for US and Japanese


HRM YANG said:


> It's like using flakk 88 to shoot the raven, when using s-400 to kick Vietnam su-30 ***

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Kyle Sun

dichoi said:


> Our missiles is origin made by Russia. You can sea how Russian killed IS in Syria by such toys..


Iraq Gov was fked up by ISIS even when they have so many US weapons.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cnleio

No doubt China keep building islands, and USN coming can boost building speed in SCS.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Viet

Chinese-Dragon said:


> In exchange for what exactly?


peace. what else?
or do you expect money? ok...how to make a deal: after the pact is signed, I can invite you to a cheap chinese/viet meal here in a shopping centre. not far from where I work.



pher said:


> haha, why do you become so agitated now? Didn't you just have your best time yesterday?


I had expected more: a US carrier crusing close to Paracels.


----------



## haviZsultan

I agree. We vouch for China as the replacement of America in the region. An Asian power-one of ours emerging is a double win for Pakistan. America has only demanded from Pakistan and given nothing. China is the exact opposite. It has never interfered in our internal affairs nor has it supported dictators and terrorists of all colours just to defeat the soviets. We stand united against terrorism and hegemonal forces like the US.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## russiarussia

cnleio said:


> No doubt China keep building islands, and USN coming can boost building speed in SCS.



What is the meaning of the Chinese writing?

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Kyle Sun

Viet said:


> peace. what else?
> or do you expect money? ok...how to make a deal: after the pact is signed, I can invite you to a cheap chinese/viet meal here in a shopping centre. not far from where I work.
> 
> 
> I had expected more: a US carrier crusing close to Paracels.


a AC or destroyer does make any difference .

Because usa sends warship to scs just to comfort its allies not to fight us.Just a political show.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Huaren

Lol how could this happen, someone claimed that the US has "won" just yesterday.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Rechoice

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The HQ-9 SAM is now deployed on the islands.
> 
> View attachment 267946
> 
> 
> View attachment 267947



This is good chance for US to internationalize the SCS dispute. American Jew is smarter than Han Chinese.


----------



## cnleio

russiarussia said:


> What is the meaning of the Chinese writing?


It's Mao's famous word and China basic diplomatic policy since 1949.

_*"人不犯我我不犯人,人若犯我我必犯人"
We(China) will not attack unless we are attacked; if we are attacked, we will certainly counter attack. *_

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## CCP

dichoi said:


> Our missiles is origin made by Russia. You can sea how Russian killed IS in Syria by such toys..



All your weapons are made by Russia.

You can see how China killed vietnamese in last China-vietnam war.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Elkanah

Are there any new pictures of the Chinese islands been a month since the last set came out


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

Viet said:


> peace. what else?
> or do you expect money? ok...how to make a deal: after the pact is signed, I can invite you to a cheap chinese/viet meal here in a shopping centre. not far from where I work.



How can we sign a pact when you still claim our territory in the Paracels?

Give up those claims first and you can have the pact.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Kyle Sun

dichoi said:


> we can destroy your fake Island from our mainland.



What's the antique ?



dichoi said:


> Our missiles is origin made by Russia. You can sea how Russian killed IS in Syria by such toys..


We know Ru weapon much better than you

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Viet

cnleio said:


> It's Mao's famous word and China basic diplomatic policy since 1949.
> 
> _*"人不犯我我不犯人,人若犯我我必犯人"
> We(China) will not attack unless we are attacked; if we are attacked, we will certainly counter attack. *_


One of my favorites quotes:
"Was interessiert mich mein Geschwaetz von gestern?"

A german chancellor.

That fits perfect to you chinese.


----------



## Viet

Chinese-Dragon said:


> How can we sign a pact when you still claim our territory in the Paracels?
> 
> Give up those claims first and you can have the pact.


I'm pretty sure all terms and conditions can be negotiated on and under the table. But you can't issue one sided demand in advance as it is unproductive and leads to nowhere.


----------



## Penguin

Zsari said:


> Never said it was. China never made any attempt in stopping air or surface traffic through the region. Rather US vessel did enter the 12nm zone if case you haven't notice.


Chinese recently did the same in US 12nmi zone at the Aleutians. Thats not the point. Even if the islands were Chinese territory, the U.S. Navy or any navy could pass within 12 miles under the rule of "innocent passage," which allows ships to sail if they are not conducting military maneuvers.

The point refers to sovereignty (territorial) claims on the one hand, EEZ on the other and what international shipping can/cannot do in an EEZ. AFAIK, under international law, navies can conduct activities in waters beyond the territorial sea of another state without prior notification or consent including in an exclusive economic zone of another country. See e.g. Impeccable incident re. attempts at stopping surface traffic ( a Chinese intelligence collection ship challenged Impeccable over bridge-to-bridge radio, calling her operations illegal and directing Impeccable to leave the area or 'suffer the consequences'). 








Arryn said:


> * 'China no longer a Western colony & won't be bullied' *
> 
> While the world’s attention has been focused on events in the Middle East and Ukraine and the US-Russia standoff, another crisis has been brewing in the South China Sea where Washington’s writ is being contested by China.
> It is a territorial dispute that goes back centuries, but which has become increasingly tense in recent years.
> 
> Deepening tensions in the South China Sea involving a territorial dispute over the Paracel and Spratly Islands – in truth, submerged pieces of rock - are particularly delicate, given that the dispute involves multiple countries, including China, Vietnam, Singapore Malaysia, Taiwan, and the Philippines.
> 
> The waters around these islands are known to be rich in natural resources, and would constitute a significant boon to the economy of the state that has sovereignty over them.
> 
> Meanwhile, China - much to the consternation of the United States - has been actively constructing a man-made island in the area, which includes a runway big enough for military aircraft.
> 
> This dispute cannot be treated in isolation from its wider geopolitical context. As China’s economy continues to grow relative to the US economy, Washington is using this dispute as an excuse to exert pressure on China militarily with the objective of intimidating Beijing and reminding it to know its place in the global scheme of things.
> 
> Consider the extent to which the US has been arming Japan, South Korea, and its other South Asian satellite states in recent years. The official line is that US allies located in proximity to China are upping their military spending in response to China’s own increase in military spending, which is set to rise by around 10 percent this year, pushing it just over $140 billion.
> 
> However, China’s military budget still remains miniscule compared to the US equivalent, which the Obama administration has decided will come in at around a mammoth $585 billion in 2016.
> 
> Beijing claims that its increase in military spending is primarily to meet the cost of modernization, as it equips its army, air force, and navy with the latest technology and weaponry, and works to integrate them. It is also the case that as China’s economic footprint grows so does its security needs in order to protect those interests.
> 
> More importantly, we have to consider the deep national scars that remain ever present within the Chinese national psyche over the humiliation it has experienced in its history – not to mention brutality and barbarism – as a consequence of its occupation by Japan between 1931 and 1945, and prior to that as a colony of the Western powers.
> 
> All these factors play into the territorial disputes that are ongoing in both the South China Sea and East China Sea (in the latter case with Japan), and which show no sign of abating anytime soon. China’s determination to assert its territorial claim is a product of its determination to deter any would-be aggressor and ensure that its sovereignty remains inviolate.
> 
> Without any sense of irony, the US, operating on behalf of the other nations involved in the dispute, claims that China’s actions are a violation of international law and freedom of navigation.
> 
> This at least is the justification for the recent provocative appearance of the USS Lassen – a US Navy guided missile destroyer - patrolling waters claimed by China around the Spratly Islands.
> 
> In response, the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs summoned the US Ambassador to China, Max Baucus, for an explanation, railing against what it considers was a clear violation of its territory.
> 
> China also issued the following statement through its foreign affairs spokesman, Lu Kang: _“If any country thinks that, through some gimmicks, they will be able to interfere with or even prevent China from engaging in reasonable, legitimate and legal activities in its own territories, I want to suggest those countries give up such fantasy."_
> 
> He added that China _“would resolutely respond to any country’s deliberately provocative actions.”_
> 
> For too long Washington has viewed the world as a giant chessboard and nation states as mere pieces, available to be moved around according to US economic and strategic interests. When Chinese and Russian naval carrier groups are operating up and down US coastal waters on a regular basis, and when China controls the global economy via currency hegemony, then the more discerning among us may be willing to entertain criticisms of Beijing.
> 
> Until then we can only continue to expose the rampant hypocrisy and double standards that informs US engagement with other nations and regions. China is no longer a colony of the West and will not be bullied; this much is clear. Also clear is that the only path to peace and stability is a multipolar alternative to the unipolarity enjoyed by the US over the past three decades.
> 
> And let the midwife of this multipolar world not be chaos and conflict but diplomacy, compromise, and respect for the rights and interests of all states and nations. Let there be an end to a two-tier world made up of the US and its allies at the top, and the rest of the world below.
> 
> The alternative, after all, is just too awful to contemplate.
> 
> 'China no longer a Western colony & won't be bullied' — RT Op-Edge



Yawn. Boohoo on the colonization period. It is not like Chinese history/development hasn't involved colonization



> Depending on the preferred definition of "colonies", Chinese states in fact established innumerable colonies throughout history. Certainly the most common form was overland colonies created in conquered "barbarian" territories. This processes lasts up till today; Beijing's sinicisation and settlement policies in Tibet and Xinjiang are viewed with some justification as colonialisation.
> While not overseas like how we usually envision "colonies", this isn't unique to China. In Europe, the colonial expansion observed in Tsarist Russia similarly spread overland. In the earliest times, there's also a certain similarity to the Roman and Greek colonies of classical antiquity. More stereotypical colonies were also founded later, though in most cases they were eclipsed and swept away by the more successfully European colonial empires.


china - Why aren't there any Chinese colonies? - History Stack Exchange

Which is not to deny that in recent history China suffered foreign enclaves 
Concessions in China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
List of former foreign enclaves in China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Or that in the late 1930s is suffered brutal invasion and occupation by Imperial Japan, after Japan had already invaded Manchuria in 1931, beginning the Second Sino-Japanese War.
Second Sino-Japanese War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Nanking Massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaUnit 731 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## ahtan_china

dichoi said:


> I think Chinese is afraid from US now, you can change your pan quickly, .


Don't just talk. Follow your master to patrol the reef and show your ability.


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

Viet said:


> I'm pretty sure all terms and conditions can be negotiated on and under the table. But you can't issue one sided demand in advance as it is unproductive and leads to nowhere.



Well don't we have to come to an agreement on the territorial disputes before any pact can be signed?

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## dichoi

ahtan_china said:


> Don't just talk. Follow your master to patrol the reef and show your ability.



Ha ha, we do it regularly. Don't you known that ?

In this moment we can take a relax, let US ship do it for us. Using enemy of enemy to counter enemy is our tactic , kid.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cnleio

Viet said:


> One of my favorites quotes:
> "Was interessiert mich mein Geschwaetz von gestern?"
> 
> A german chancellor.
> 
> That fits perfect to you chinese.


_English, pls ...! _
Anyways the world only trust national strength, ppl truly care what u do in next step & not care what u ever talked before.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## ahtan_china

dichoi said:


> Ha ha, we do it regularly. Don't you known that ?
> 
> In this moment we can take a relax, let US ship do it for us. Using enemy of enemy to counter enemy is our tactic , kid.


It is really? Come on, Dude. The PLA navy, even China coast guard is waiting for your coming.. Do you want to show the game of the 981 oil rig again? Welcome


----------



## Viva_Viet

Thats all Cnese can do, keep talk talk talk , try to look like a super internet warrior....when US keep sending ship to it 12miles


----------



## Jlaw

I am ashamed that China has not invaded other countries. Imo it is the only way to show that no one can mess with you.


TaiShang said:


> Becoming more peace-oriented, to be exact.
> 
> Peace through strength. Did not Mahan teach you so?



peace through strength, but sometimes countries with big mouth leaders need to be taught a lesson. I hope the next time it happens, China does not retreat and give back the enemies' ammunition. War without taking some strategic enemy land is almost useless.



Viva_Viet said:


> Thats all Cnese can do, keep talk talk talk , try to look like a super internet warrior....when US keep sending ship to it 12miles


You are right to an extent. All the Chinese around the world will respect Vn if she send her warship inside the 12 nm Chinese zone.



cnleio said:


> It's Mao's famous word and China basic diplomatic policy since 1949.
> 
> _*"人不犯我我不犯人,人若犯我我必犯人"
> We(China) will not attack unless we are attacked; if we are attacked, we will certainly counter attack. *_


Bro, that was a different China. A weak China. Today Chinese leader need to make new speeches. Make sure it's not done by General Fan. He should be reprimanded.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Hamartia Antidote

C130 said:


> come on now. the charade is over. was your people going to build a hotel resort and casino on these islands mate  don't tell me one messily destroyer that the great PLAN followed the entire time is concerned now.



You beat me to it!
Yes, the US Navy has foiled the plans of a billion Chinese to have a luxurious resort and spa available to them for rest and relaxation. The travel agencies are pissed.

Sorry we ruined your future vacation plans.
You'll have to find another reef.

I'm sure this was a conspiracy between the U.S. Government and Royal Carribean to keep people on their ships.

This was from yesterday:
China Focus: Full steam ahead for China's cruise market
- Xinhua | English.news.cn

Next up: That large mystery ship currently being built is going to be converted on the fly from a luxury 5000 passenger cruise ship into an aircraft carrier.


----------



## Viet

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Well don't we have to come to an agreement on the *territorial disputes* before any pact can be signed?


depending on how far or how close the parties on each matter. if the sea dispute can´t be solved in a foreseeable future, it is best to begin negotiating on the terms and conditions of a non-aggression pact.

go study the Hitler-Stalin Nichtangriffspakt of 1939.
Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## 21stCentury

Full speed ahead

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## pher

Viet said:


> I'm pretty sure all terms and conditions can be negotiated on and under the table. But you can't issue one sided demand in advance as it is unproductive and leads to nowhere.


It is impossible from your stupid and short-sighted government. We proposed long time ago that we like to co-develop the SCS with relevent parties, but your greedy government rejected this proposal. Now the tide has changed and you people just missed the window.

Don't provoke us further more, otherwise we will help combodia claim to take back your mekong delta including saigon.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Hamartia Antidote

Huaren said:


> Lol how could this happen, someone claimed that the US has "won" just yesterday.



What do you think a win should be? Beaching the ship on the reef or something? That would be a win?

The ship passed by...people cried..not really much of a win or lose.


----------



## 大汉奸柳传志

Hamartia Antidote said:


> You'll have find another reef.


Love the sound of that. 

not sure about the viets and filipinos tho..

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Viva_Viet

Jlaw said:


> You are right to an extent. All the Chinese around the world will respect Vn if she send her warship inside the 12 nm Chinese zone.


 There is an easier way: just sit and watch US crush CN to pieces there and take back the isls while CN collapse.

Thats what Cnese call: win without fighting


----------



## Jlaw

Viva_Viet said:


> There is an easier way: just sit and watch US crush CN to pieces there and take back the isls while CN collapse.
> 
> Thats what Cnese call: win without fighting


if only pigs can fly.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Viva_Viet

Jlaw said:


> if only pigs can fly.


CN collapsed about 100 times in history

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## VALKRYIE

CN.Black said:


> HQ011 is not a frigate.It is a corvette.VN is a weak navy without any frigate or destroyer.



It has two Gepard Frigates + 4 more coming. Genuis...


----------



## Hamartia Antidote

utp45 said:


> Love the sound of that.
> 
> not sure about the viets and filipinos tho..



Lol and you still think the U.S. is viewed as the aggressor in that area...


----------



## Sanchez

In 1946-1947 it was US destroyers who transported the Chinese to the islands and reefs to claim sovereignty of SCS recovered from Japanese occupation. Now US destroyers are telling us that these are no-man's land. It's obvious that it's a contest of fists and kicks...

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## 大汉奸柳传志

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Lol and you still think the U.S. is viewed as the aggressor in that area...


No，Just a much needed enabler.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ahtan_china

Sanchez said:


> In 1946-1947 it was US destroyers who transported the Chinese to the islands and reefs to claim sovereignty of SCS recovered from Japanese occupation. Now US destroyers are telling us that these are no-man's land. It's obvious that it's a contest of fists and kicks...


Do you remember the USA is a nation without history?.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Speeder 2

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The HQ-9 SAM is now deployed on the islands.
> 
> View attachment 267946
> 
> 
> View attachment 267947



Which islands?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## dichoi

ahtan_china said:


> It is really? Come on, Dude. The PLA navy, even China coast guard is waiting for your coming.. Do you want to show the game of the 981 oil rig again? Welcome



Come on, pls.


----------



## Hamartia Antidote

Sanchez said:


> In 1946-1947 it was US destroyers who transported the Chinese to the islands and reefs to claim sovereignty of SCS recovered from Japanese occupation. Now US destroyers are telling us that these are no-man's land. It's obvious that it's a contest of fists and kicks...



As I recall from my twisted history classes here... the Russians and Communists beat the Japanese...why would the U.S. Military be doing any transportation?


----------



## Sanchez

Hamartia Antidote said:


> As I recall from my twisted history classes here... the Russians and Communists beat the Japanese...why would the U.S. Military be doing any transportation?



It was after we beat Japanese and US forces came to meddle the affairs of C and N in China.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ahtan_china

dichoi said:


> Come on, pls.


I am not interesting in kid's cartoon. Bye


----------



## Place Of Space

Which islands?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Hamartia Antidote

Sanchez said:


> It was after we beat Japanese and US forces came to meddle the affairs of C and N in China.



Ah by meddling you mean the Navy showed up and forced some Chinese people on transport ships and dumped them on remote reefs...


----------



## Sanchez

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Ah by meddling you mean the Navy showed up and forced some Chinese people on transport ships and dumped them on remote reefs...



Oh no, you know the history. US was helping to transport Nationalist troops moving from Southwest of China to take over Japanese occupied areas. In the mean time US meddled a ceasefire between Communists and Nationalists.

China announced our SCS territory borders with the famous 9 dotted lines in *1947 *and nobody voiced objections then！

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Place Of Space

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Ah by meddling you mean the Navy showed up and forced some Chinese people on transport ships and dumped them on remote reefs...



Nonono, that's pragmatic policy. 
When you know, after 6 years nuking Japan, US made it an ally, you don't need to wonder the transpotation action. lol

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Gijoe

50 years ago, China would hide it balls to the US. Now 50 years later, US balls getting smaller. China balls getting enlarge. When US doing his business in Syria with ISIS, they really show some balls, but when Russia start intervene. US balls now getting more smaller. Both Russia and China giving US middle finger and pulled down their pants to show case their balls for the US. Unfortunately US cannot show back, because their balls is becoming vanished.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Hamartia Antidote

Gijoe said:


> 50 years ago, China would hide it balls to the US. Now 50 years later, US balls getting smaller. China balls getting enlarge. When US doing his business in Syria with ISIS, they really show some balls, but when Russia start intervene. US balls now getting more smaller. Both Russia and China giving US middle finger and pulled down their pants to show case their balls for the US. Unfortunately US cannot show back, because their balls is becoming vanished.



No flags...the irony.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> I had expected more: a US carrier crusing close to Paracels.



An aircraft carrier would not come that close to the vicinity of the island, because it would not risk to get grounded.

That's why the USN is constantly sending the smaller and more flexible cruiser or destroyer.



Speeder 2 said:


> Which islands?





Place Of Space said:


> Which islands?



I guess it is the island closest to the completion.

BTW, all islands will be soon militarized.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Zsari

Penguin said:


> Chinese recently did the same in US 12nmi zone at the Aleutians. Thats not the point. Even if the islands were Chinese territory, the U.S. Navy or any navy could pass within 12 miles under the rule of "innocent passage," which allows ships to sail if they are not conducting military maneuvers.
> 
> The point refers to sovereignty (territorial) claims on the one hand, EEZ on the other and what international shipping can/cannot do in an EEZ. AFAIK, under international law, navies can conduct activities in waters beyond the territorial sea of another state without prior notification or consent including in an exclusive economic zone of another country. See e.g. Impeccable incident re. attempts at stopping surface traffic ( a Chinese intelligence collection ship challenged Impeccable over bridge-to-bridge radio, calling her operations illegal and directing Impeccable to leave the area or 'suffer the consequences').


 
Like I've already said, innocent passage have specific protocols to follow. For example you can't launch on board helicopter, you can't turn on your radar etc. Unless the US specifically stated it is exercising innocent passage, the chance are that it is not.
Chinese naval vessels on the other hand are transiting through the Bering Strait, which according to UNCLOS on Straits, is called transit passage, which has less restrictive requirements than innocent passage. The two actions are actually very different legally speaking. And you know what's the biggest difference between the two? That innocent passage can be suspended by the costal state while transit passage cannot be.



jhungary said:


> Did you actually look at my post before replying? Or you simply saw that I used the Panama Canal as an example and you assume I think SCS and Panama Canal is the same thing?
> 
> *WHERE DID I COMPARE THE ACTUAL SOUTH CHINA SEA TO PANAMA CANAL?
> *
> I have compared the *STATUS* of SCS and Panama Canal. Both Status is the same while SCS is on the high seas and Panama Canal is an international waterway. Which as I explained before,* High Seas and International Waterway share the same right and  are of equal status. You cannot build military structure in international waterway, as with you cannot build military structure high seas.*
> 
> As I said in my previous post, if you don't like my Panama Canal example, I can use the Principality of Sealand as an example.
> 
> This is the second time this happen, you are seeing something I did not say. Suggest that you go find an eye doctor or a brain doctor for a quick check up, cause you are seeing things that weren't there.


 
Read the definition of international waterway in your own post.

_In __International Law__, international waterways are *straits, canals, and rivers* that connect two areas of the high seas or enable ocean shipping to reach interior ports on international seas, gulfs, or lakes that *otherwise would be land-locked*. International waterways also may be rivers that serve as international boundaries or traverse successively two or more states. Ships have a right of passage through international waterways._

The South China Sea by definition does not fall into the category of international waterway, or you can designate the entire world's ocean as international waterway. The below article is the only relevant restriction on artificial structures that it should not interfere with the use of recognized sea lanes. It is designed for narrow waterway and can't certainly be applied to vast sea, as I have yet to see anyone use that article as a justification against the Chinese construction.

_Article 60
Artificial islands, installations and structures in the exclusive economic zone
7. Artificial islands, installations and structures and the safety zones around them may not be established where interference may be caused to the use of recognized sea lanes essential to international navigation._

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## HRM YANG

haviZsultan said:


> I agree. We vouch for China as the replacement of America in the region. An Asian power-one of ours emerging is a double win for Pakistan. America has only demanded from Pakistan and given nothing. China is the exact opposite. It has never interfered in our internal affairs nor has it supported dictators and terrorists of all colours just to defeat the soviets. We stand united against terrorism and hegemonal forces like the US.


US is always interest oriented, what can you expect from their alignments?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zsari

C130 said:


> you make it sound like this wasn't the plan all along


 
Preplanned or not, China has the justification to do so after US incursion. Like its been said, the whole episode looks like a pre-arranged show. Both side got what they wanted.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> An aircraft carrier would not come that close to the vicinity of the island, because it would not risk to get grounded.
> 
> That's why the USN is constantly sending the smaller and more flexible cruiser or destroyer.
> .


the US deployed 22 aircraft carriers during the Vietnam war. they know the SC Sea in and out. you are guessing too much. and mostly wrong.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> the US deployed 22 aircraft carriers during the Vietnam war. they know the SC Sea in and out. you are guessing too much. and mostly wrong.



But not within the 12 nautical miles from Vietnam's coast.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Zsari

Solomon2 said:


> That's China's fault for previously arguing that its own fishing arrangements with Japan compromised Japan's claims to sovereignty in disputed regions, yes? link You guys dug this hole yourselves, but I think if you pretend it never happened and stop thinking about what ROC might do that will be the most profitable and face-saving approach.


 
The two are completely unrelated. After Japanese declaration to nationalize the Diaoyu island, it was challenged by both PRC & ROC. There were even a three way jousting on the sea between the Taiwan fishing boat, the Japanese coast guard and the Chinese maritime patrol boat. As the result Japan extended an invitation to ROC for a fishing rights agreement just to take ROC out of the equation. As you can see, without resolving the internal issue between PRC & ROC, China does not have a united front to best serve its interest. As such China will delay any meaningful negotiation at this point.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

Viva_Viet said:


> There is an easier way: just sit and watch US crush CN to pieces there and take back the isls while CN collapse.
> 
> Thats what Cnese call: win without fighting



if they could, they would, but they can't, so we don't. Remember the last time naval action happened in SCS ?

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Penguin

Zsari said:


> Like I've already said, innocent passage have specific protocols to follow. For example you can't launch on board helicopter, you can't turn on your radar etc. Unless the US specifically stated it is exercising innocent passage, the chance are that it is not.
> Chinese naval vessels on the other hand are transiting through the Bering Strait, which according to UNCLOS on Straits, is called transit passage, which has less restrictive requirements than innocent passage. The two actions are actually very different legally speaking. And you know what's the biggest difference between the two? That innocent passage can be suspended by the costal state while transit passage cannot be.





> *After Months of Waiting, US Finally Begins Freedom of Navigation Patrols Near China's Man-Made Islands*
> The USS _Lassen_ sailed within 12 nautical miles of a Chinese man-made island on October 27, 2015.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By Ankit Panda for The Diplomat
> October 27, 2015
> 
> Early Tuesday morning, the U.S. Navy confirmed that the USS _Lassen_, an _Arleigh_ Burke-class guided missile destroyer, had completed the first in a series of planned freedom of navigation operations (FONOPs) in the South China Sea. The operation is the strongest assertion yet by the U.S. Navy that it rejects any maritime claims for Chinese features that were submerged at low-tide in their original, pre-land reclamation state.
> 
> The FONOP _does not_, as some reporting has suggested, directly challenge or contest the sovereignty of specific maritime features in the South China Sea. The United States continues to take no position on the actual sovereignty of various disputed maritime features in the South China Sea.
> 
> Based on the reports available at the time of this writing, the U.S. Navy has not specified the exact location or duration of the _Lassen_‘s passage. A U.S. defense official confirmed to the _Wall Street Journal_, however, that the destroyer had “navigated through the waters around at least one of the land masses to which China lays claim within the Spratly chain of islands in the South China Sea.” As I noted earlier, a U.S. official had told _Reuters_ that the only two possible features where the Lassen could have carried out an operation are Subi and Mischief Reefs–two features that are “low-tide elevations” under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS).
> 
> Per UNCLOS, these features are entitled to no special consideration for a maritime exclusion zone outside of a 500 meter navigational safety zone. The _Journal_‘s report specifies that the *Lassen did not conform to “innocent passage” standards under UNCLOS as doing so could imply de facto recognition of Chinese territorial waters, defeating the purpose of the FONOP.*
> 
> _Reuters_ notes that Chinese authorities are still working to verify whether the _Lassen_ did indeed sail within 12 nautical miles of either Subi or Mischief Reef. However, China’s foreign minister has already commented on the FONOP. According to reports, Wang Yi noted that “If true, we advise the U.S. to think again and before acting, not act blindly or make trouble out of nothing.”
> 
> The foreign minister’s use of “think again” suggests that China will likely not retaliate harshly for this particular episode, but is issuing a warning for future FONOPs. Earlier, the Chinese foreign ministry had noted that China would “never allow any country” to violate its territorial waters. That China did not directly intercept or attempt to interdict the _Lassen_ suggests that Beijing’s language is stronger than its actual resolve to act to defend the waters around its man-made islands.
> 
> Now that the United States has officially started FONOPs within 12 nautical miles of man-made features, it will follow up with additional patrols near features that have been developed and reclaimed by Vietnam and the Philippines, according to a U.S. official who spoke to _Reuters_ ahead of the _Lassen_‘s patrol. “This is something that will be a regular occurrence, not a one-off event,” the official noted, adding that FONOPs will not be “unique to China.”
> _
> Editor’s Note: This is a developing story and will be closely followed by_ The Diplomat _in the coming days.
> 
> Update: a U.S. official, speaking anonymously, has told the Associated Press that the USS Lassen sailed within 12 nautical miles of Subi Reef._



There's your answer in terms of the US(N) position.


----------



## Penguin

Zsari said:


> _In __International Law__, international waterways are *straits, canals, and rivers* that connect two areas of the high seas or enable ocean shipping to reach interior ports on international seas, gulfs, or lakes that *otherwise would be land-locked*. International waterways also may be rivers that serve as international boundaries or traverse successively two or more states. Ships have a right of passage through international waterways._
> 
> The South China Sea by definition does not fall into the category of international waterway, or you can designate the entire world's ocean as international waterway. The below article is the only relevant restriction on artificial structures that it should not interfere with the use of recognized sea lanes. It is designed for narrow waterway and can't certainly be applied to vast sea, as I have yet to see anyone use that article as a justification against the Chinese construction.
> 
> _Article 60
> Artificial islands, installations and structures in the exclusive economic zone
> 7. Artificial islands, installations and structures and the safety zones around them may not be established where interference may be caused to the use of recognized sea lanes essential to international navigation._



About 30 percent of global trade passes through the South China Sea.
If its not an international waterway, as you say, then essentially it is high seas aka international seas. Unless you claim SCS is a (semi-) enclosed sea and China is a geographically disadvantaged state...
_
Re. artificial structures: construction allowed the coastal state in its EEZ (i.e. up to 200nmi from its coast) or construction allowed the coastal state in in high seas (implying no preexisting sovereignty as one would have e.g. with an naturally formed island).

*TERRITORIAL SEA AND CONTIGUOUS ZONE
SECTION 1. GENERAL PROVISIONS*
Article 2 Legal status of the territorial sea, of the air space over the territorial sea and of its bed and subsoil
1. The sovereignty of a coastal State extends, beyond its land territory and internal waters and, in the case of an archipelagic State, its archipelagic waters, to an adjacent belt of sea, described as the territorial sea.
2. This sovereignty extends to the air space over the territorial sea as well as to its bed and subsoil.
3. The sovereignty over the territorial sea is exercised subject to this Convention and to other rules of international law.
*
SECTION 2. LIMITS OF THE TERRITORIAL SEA*
Article 3 Breadth of the territorial sea
Every State has the right to establish the breadth of its territorial sea up to a limit not exceeding 12 nautical miles, measured from baselines determined in accordance with this Convention.

Article 4 Outer limit of the territorial sea
The outer limit of the territorial sea is the line every point of which is at a distance from the nearest point of the baseline equal to the breadth of the territorial sea.

Article 5 Normal baseline
Except where otherwise provided in this Convention, the normal baseline for measuring the breadth of the territorial sea is the low-water line along the coast as marked on large-scale charts officially recognized by the coastal State.

Article 6 Reefs
In the case of islands situated on atolls or of islands having fringing reefs, the baseline for measuring the breadth of the territorial sea is the seaward low-water line of the reef, as shown by the appropriate symbol on charts officially recognized by the coastal State.

Article 13 Low-tide elevations_
1. A low-tide elevation is a naturally formed area of land which is surrounded by and above water at low tide but submerged at high tide. Where a low-tide elevation is situated wholly or partly at a distance not exceeding the breadth of the territorial sea from the mainland or an island, the low-water line on that elevation may be used as the baseline for measuring the breadth of the territorial sea.
2. Where a low-tide elevation is wholly situated at a distance exceeding the breadth of the territorial sea from the mainland or an island, it has no territorial sea of its own.

*SECTION 3. INNOCENT PASSAGE IN THE TERRITORIAL SEA
SUBSECTION A. RULES APPLICABLE TO ALL SHIPS*
_Article 17 Right of innocent passage_
Subject to this Convention, ships of all States, whether coastal or land-locked, enjoy the right of innocent passage through the territorial sea.
_
Article 18 Meaning of passage_
1. Passage means navigation through the territorial sea for the purpose of:
(a) traversing that sea without entering internal waters or calling at a roadstead or port facility outside internal waters; or
(b) proceeding to or from internal waters or a call at such roadstead or port facility.
2. Passage shall be continuous and expeditious. However, passage includes stopping and anchoring, but only in so far as the same are incidental to ordinary navigation or are rendered necessary by _force majeure _or distress
or for the purpose of rendering assistance to persons, ships or aircraft in danger or distress.
_
Article 19 Meaning of innocent passage_
1. Passage is innocent so long as it is not prejudicial to the peace, good order or security of the coastal State. Such passage shall take place in conformity with this Convention and with other rules of international law.
2. Passage of a foreign ship shall be considered to be prejudicial to the peace, good order or security of the coastal State if in the territorial sea it engages in any of the following activities:
(a) any threat or use of force against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of the coastal State, or in any other manner in violation of the principles of international law embodied in the Charter of the United Nations;
(b) any exercise or practice with weapons of any kind;
(c) any act aimed at collecting information to the prejudice of the defence or security of the coastal State;
(d) any act of propaganda aimed at affecting the defence or security of the coastal State;
(e) the launching, landing or taking on board of any aircraft;
(f) the launching, landing or taking on board of any military device;
(g) the loading or unloading of any commodity, currency or person contrary to the customs, fiscal, immigration or sanitary laws and regulations of the coastal State;
(h) any act of wilful and serious pollution contrary to this Convention;
(i) any fishing activities;
(j) the carrying out of research or survey activities;
(k) any act aimed at interfering with any systems of communication
or any other facilities or installations of the coastal State;
(l) any other activity not having a direct bearing on passage.

_Article 24 Duties of the coastal State_
1. The coastal State shall not hamper the innocent passage of foreign ships through the territorial sea except in accordance with this Convention. In particular, in the application of this Convention or of any laws or
regulations adopted in conformity with this Convention, the coastal State shall not:
(a) impose requirements on foreign ships which have the practical effect of denying or impairing the right of innocent passage; or
(b) discriminate in form or in fact against the ships of any State or against ships carrying cargoes to, from or on behalf of any State.
2. The coastal State shall give appropriate publicity to any danger to navigation, of which it has knowledge, within its territorial sea.

*SECTION 4. CONTIGUOUS ZONE*
_Article 33 Contiguous zone [compare to territorial sea]_
1. In a zone contiguous to its territorial sea, described as the contiguous zone, the coastal State may exercise the control necessary to:
(a) prevent infringement of its customs, fiscal, immigration or sanitary laws and regulations within its territory or territorial
sea;
(b) punish infringement of the above laws and regulations committed within its territory or territorial sea.
2. The contiguous zone may not extend beyond 24 nautical miles from the baselines from which the breadth of the territorial sea is measured.

*SECTION 2. TRANSIT PASSAGE*
_Article 37 Scope of this section_
This section applies to straits which are used for international navigation between one part of the high seas or an exclusive economic zone and another part of the high seas or an exclusive economic zone.

_Article 39 Duties of ships and aircraft during transit passage_
1. Ships and aircraft, while exercising the right of transit passage, shall:
(a) proceed without delay through or over the strait;
(b) refrain from any threat or use of force against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of States bordering the strait, or in any other manner in violation of the principles of international law embodied in the Charter of the United Nations;
(c) refrain from any activities other than those incident to their normal modes of continuous and expeditious transit unless
rendered necessary by _force majeure _or by distress;
(d) comply with other relevant provisions of this Part.
2. Ships in transit passage shall:
(a) comply with generally accepted international regulations, procedures and practices for safety at sea, including the
International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea;
(b) comply with generally accepted international regulations, procedures and practices for the prevention, reduction and
control of pollution from ships.
3. Aircraft in transit passage shall:
(a) observe the Rules of the Air established by the International Civil Aviation Organization as they apply to civil aircraft; state aircraft will normally comply with such safety measures and will at all times operate with due regard for the safety of
navigation;
(b) at all times monitor the radio frequency assigned by the competent internationally designated air traffic control authority or the appropriate international distress radio frequency.

_Article 40 Research
and survey activities_
During transit passage, foreign ships, including marine scientific research and hydrographic survey ships, may not carry out any research or survey activities without the prior authorization of the States bordering straits.

*PART V
EXCLUSIVE ECONOMIC ZONE [compare territorial sea]*
_Article 55 Specific legal regime of the exclusive economic zone_
The exclusive economic zone is an area beyond and adjacent to the territorial sea, subject to the specific legal regime established in this Part, under which the rights and jurisdiction of the coastal State and the rights and
freedoms of other States are governed by the relevant provisions of this Convention.

_Article 57 Breadth of the exclusive economic zone_
The exclusive economic zone shall not extend beyond 200 nautical miles from the baselines from which the breadth of the territorial sea is measured.

_Article 58 Rights and duties of other States in the exclusive economic zone_
1. In the exclusive economic zone, all States, whether coastal or land-locked, enjoy, subject to the relevant provisions of this Convention, the freedoms referred to in article 87 of navigation and overflight and of the laying of submarine cables and pipelines, and other internationally lawful uses of the sea related to these freedoms, such as those associated with the operation of ships, aircraft and submarine cables and pipelines, and compatible with the other provisions of this Convention.

_Article 60 Artificial islands, installations and structures in the exclusive economic zone_
1. In the exclusive economic zone, the coastal State shall have the exclusive right to construct and to authorize and regulate the construction, operation and use of:

(a) artificial islands;
(b) installations and structures for the purposes provided for in article 56 and other economic purposes;
(c) installations and structures which may interfere with the exercise of the rights of the coastal State in the zone.
...
4. The coastal State may, where necessary, establish reasonable safety zones around such artificial islands, installations and structures in which it may take appropriate measures to ensure the safety both of navigation and of the artificial islands, installations and structures.
5. The breadth of the safety zones shall be determined by the coastal State, taking into account applicable international standards. Such zones shall be designed to ensure that they are reasonably related to the nature and function of the artificial islands, installations or structures, and shall not exceed a distance of 500 metres around them, measured from each point of their outer edge, except as authorized by generally accepted international standards or as recommended by the competent international organization. Due notice shall be given of the extent of safety zones.

_Article 70 Right of geographically disadvantaged States_
1. Geographically disadvantaged States shall have the right to participate, on an equitable basis, in the exploitation of an appropriate part of the surplus of the living resources of the exclusive economic zones of coastal States of the same subregion or region, taking into account the relevant economic and geographical circumstances of all the States concerned and in conformity with the provisions of this article and of articles 61 and 62.
2. For the purposes of this Part, "geographically disadvantaged States" means coastal States, including States bordering enclosed or semi-enclosed seas, whose geographical situation makes them dependent upon the exploitation of the living resources of the exclusive economic zones of other States in the subregion or region for adequate supplies of fish for the
nutritional purposes of their populations or parts thereof, and coastal States which can claim no exclusive economic zones of their own.

*PART VI
CONTINENTAL SHELF*
_Article 76 Definition of the continental shelf_
1. The continental shelf of a coastal State comprises the seabed and subsoil of the submarine areas that extend beyond its territorial sea throughout the natural prolongation of its land territory to the outer edge of the continental margin, or to a distance of 200 nautical miles from the baselines from which the breadth of the territorial sea is measured where the
outer edge of the continental margin does not extend up to that distance.

_Article 78 Legal status of the superjacent waters and air space and the rights and freedoms of other States_
1. The rights of the coastal State over the continental shelf do not affect the legal status of the superjacent waters or of the air space above those waters.
2. The exercise of the rights of the coastal State over the continental shelf must not infringe or result in any unjustifiable interference with navigation and other rights and freedoms of other States as provided for in this Convention.

_Article 80 Artificial islands, installations and structures on the continental shelf_
Article 60 applies _mutatis mutandis _to artificial islands, installations and
structures on the continental shelf.

*PART VII
HIGH SEAS
SECTION 1. GENERAL PROVISIONS*
_Article 86 Application of the provisions of this Part_
The provisions of this Part apply to all parts of the sea that are not included in the exclusive economic zone, in the territorial sea or in the internal waters of a State, or in the archipelagic waters of an archipelagic
State. This article does not entail any abridgement of the freedoms enjoyed by all States in the exclusive economic zone in accordance with article 58.
_
Article 87 Freedom of the high seas_
1. The high seas are open to all States, whether coastal or land-locked.
Freedom of the high seas is exercised under the conditions laid down by this
convention and by other rules of international law. It comprises, _inter alia_,
both for coastal and land-locked States:
(a) freedom of navigation;
(b) freedom of overflight;
(c) freedom to lay submarine cables and pipelines, subject to
Part VI;
(d) freedom to construct artificial islands and other installations permitted under international law, subject to Part VI;
(e) freedom of fishing, subject to the conditions laid down in section 2;
(f) freedom of scientific research, subject to Parts VI and XIII.
2. These freedoms shall be exercised by all States with due regard for the interests of other States in their exercise of the freedom of the high seas, and also with due regard for the rights under this Convention with respect to activities in the Area.
_
Article 88 Reservation of the high seas for peaceful purposes_
The high seas shall be reserved for peaceful purposes.

_Article 89 Invalidity of claims of sovereignty over the high seas
_
No State may validly purport to subject any part of the high seas to its sovereignty.

_
Article 90 Right of navigation 
_
Every State, whether coastal or land-locked, has the right to sail ships flying its flag on the high seas.

_Article 95 Immunity of warships on the high seas
_
Warships on the high seas have complete immunity from the jurisdiction of any State other than the flag State.

_
Article 96

Immunity of ships used only on government non-commercial service
_
Ships owned or operated by a State and used only on government non-commercial service shall, on the high seas, have complete immunity from the jurisdiction of any State other than the flag State.

*PART VIII
REGIME OF ISLANDS*
_Article 121
Regime of islands_
1. An island is a naturally formed area of land, surrounded by water, which is above water at high tide.
2. Except as provided for in paragraph 3, the territorial sea, the contiguous zone, the exclusive economic zone and the continental shelf of an island are determined in accordance with the provisions of this Convention
applicable to other land territory.
3. Rocks which cannot sustain human habitation or economic life of their own shall have no exclusive economic zone or continental shelf.

*PART IX

ENCLOSED OR SEMI-ENCLOSED SEAS
*
_Article 122 Definition
_
For the purposes of this Convention, "enclosed or semi-enclosed sea" means a gulf, basin or sea surrounded by two or more States and connected to another sea or the ocean by a narrow outlet or consisting entirely or primarily of the territorial seas and exclusive economic zones of two or more coastal States.


----------



## Zsari

Penguin said:


> About 30 percent of global trade passes through the South China Sea.
> If its not an international waterway, as you say, then essentially it is high seas aka international seas. Unless you claim SCS is a (semi-) enclosed sea and China is a geographically disadvantaged state...
> _
> Re. artificial structures: construction allowed the coastal state in its EEZ (i.e. up to 200nmi from its coast) or construction allowed the coastal state in in high seas (implying no preexisting sovereignty as one would have e.g. with an naturally formed island)_.


 
Isn't that exactly what I've said? The freedom to construct artificial islands and other installations are permitted by international law.



Penguin said:


> The point refers to sovereignty (territorial) claims on the one hand, EEZ on the other and what international shipping can/cannot do in an EEZ. AFAIK, under international law, navies can conduct activities in waters beyond the territorial sea of another state without prior notification or consent including in an exclusive economic zone of another country. See e.g. Impeccable incident re. attempts at stopping surface traffic ( a Chinese intelligence collection ship challenged Impeccable over bridge-to-bridge radio, calling her operations illegal and directing Impeccable to leave the area or 'suffer the consequences').


 
_The high seas are open to all States, whether coastal or land-locked. Freedom of the high seas is exercised under the conditions laid down by this Convention and by other rules of international law. It comprises, inter alia, both for coastal and land-locked States:
(a) freedom of navigation;
(b) freedom of overflight;
(c) freedom to lay submarine cables and pipelines, subject to Part VI;
(d) freedom to construct artificial islands and other installations permitted under international law, subject to Part VI;
(e) freedom of fishing, subject to the conditions laid down in section 2;
(f) freedom of scientific research, subject to Parts VI and XIII._

US simply includes all military activities as navigation which China disagrees, at least in its near shore.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Akasa

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The HQ-9 SAM is now deployed on the islands.
> 
> View attachment 267946
> 
> 
> View attachment 267947



Those are 400-km-range YJ-62 anti-ship missiles, not HQ-9 systems.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Elkanah

To me the Chinese have 1 play left short of physical confrontation they must withdraw from UNCLOS


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

Viet said:


> go study the Hitler-Stalin Nichtangriffspakt of 1939.
> Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



And how did that one turn out?

Even someone who has never studied history will know that the non-aggression pact between Germany and Russia in 1939 did not go well in the end.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Zsari

Elkanah said:


> To me the Chinese have 1 play left short of physical confrontation they must withdraw from UNCLOS


 
On the contrary, China should work to expanding the UNCLOS. In the same spirit of the cannon shot rule that created the 1st 3nm territorial water, with today's technology, there should create a maritime defense zone in the near shore that cannot be used to endanger the security of the costal state.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## HRM YANG

Viva_Viet said:


> CN collapsed about 100 times in history


Both of your math and history teachers feel ashamed for what you said

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## HRM YANG

Viet said:


> the US deployed 22 aircraft carriers during the Vietnam war. they know the SC Sea in and out. you are guessing too much. and mostly wrong.


How rampant the USN was in the Viet-war is because of how fragile the Vietnam was, At that time, you can take a look back by yourself. you completely had noway to scrape some US carrier's coating down, we are not Vietnam, what American dare to do is just dispatched a destroyer to do "De passage inoffensif" . maybe nexttime for a higher speed of escape and saving the fuel tje little LCS with a 6pounds gun could do better?
I am completely speechless to you...

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Sanchez

HRM YANG said:


> Both of your math and history teachers feel ashamed for what you said



I took it as a compliment! Other Ancient powers declined once for ever but China's different. After all the collapses we are still stronger and above their heads. For the angry Viets in the forum China remains to be unremovable nightmares and that's OK with me.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Penguin

Zsari said:


> Isn't that exactly what I've said? The freedom to construct artificial islands and other installations are permitted by international law.


Either on the high seas, or one's EEZ (i.e. there goes China's territorial claim, at least wrt Spratly's)


----------



## Solomon2

Zsari said:


> The two are completely unrelated. After Japanese declaration to nationalize the Diaoyu island, it was challenged by both PRC & ROC. There were even a three way jousting on the sea between the Taiwan fishing boat, the Japanese coast guard and the Chinese maritime patrol boat. As the result Japan extended an invitation to ROC for a fishing rights agreement just to take ROC out of the equation. As you can see, without resolving the internal issue between PRC & ROC, China does not have a united front to best serve its interest. As such China will delay any meaningful negotiation at this point.


Mmmm, no, I've never heard that PRC diplomats cite this. Probably because it undermines the position that ROC is a wayward province rather than an independent state. I don't see what's wrong with carrying on sea negotiations in earnest and simply ignoring ROC and previous Chinese-only interpretations of previous fishing arrangements.


----------



## Viva_Viet

Sanchez said:


> I took it as a compliment! Other Ancient powers declined once for ever but China's different. After all the collapses we are still stronger and above their heads. For the angry Viets in the forum China remains to be unremovable nightmares and that's OK with me.


In the last collape, CN.lost KoKang,half of Mongol,Senkaku,TW and lots of land to Russia.

I dont see any 'angry'Vnese in this thread,only angry Cnese here after US ships slap on your claim when entering 12miles


----------



## boomslang

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Next America will say, now they have a reason to militarize Alaska....




Alaska is a state, chief. And too late on the 'militarize' thing. Been there, done that.


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

Viva_Viet said:


> In the last collape, CN.lost KoKang,half of Mongol,Senkaku,TW and lots of land to Russia.
> 
> I dont see any 'angry'Vnese in this thread,only angry Cnese here after US ships slap on your claim when entering 12miles



And China is growing stronger again.

You realised this when you lost the Paracels remember? You didn't collapse but you still lost territory. 

When you actually do collapse there will be nothing left. Whereas China always returns after a collapse, as we have done for thousands of years.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## boomslang

C130 said:


> ....china becoming more imperialist by the year.




Not to mention douches for sanding over live coral.


----------



## Viva_Viet

Chinese-Dragon said:


> And China is growing stronger again.
> 
> You realised this when you lost the Paracels remember? You didn't collapse but you still lost territory.
> 
> When you actually do collapse there will be nothing left. Whereas China always returns after a collapse, as we have done for thousands of years.


We got more lands from Laos-Kam, we focus on expansion to the West. Those rock r useless to us.


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

boomslang said:


> Not to mention douches for sanding over live coral.



Coral will hold the weight of worlds. 



Viva_Viet said:


> We got more lands from Laos-Kam, we focus on expansion to the West. Those rock r useless to us.



"Expansion to the west"? LOL what are you talking about?

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## bobsm

*Australia not to join U.S. operation in South China Sea: FM*
English.news.cn 2015-10-29 20:24:16 

CANBERRA, Oct. 29 (Xinhua) -- Australia has not been asked to join the United States in sailing warships near Chinese islands in the South China Sea and Australia has no plan to go beyond what it is doing there now, Australian Foreign Minister Julie Bishop said on Thursday.

"We have not been asked to join the United States and we have no plans to do other than what we already do," Bishop told media.

She also confirmed reports that *two Australian Royal Navy destroyers are now in China for a joint live fire exercise.*

"Indeed, we have joint exercises with the United States Navy, we have joint exercises with the Chinese Navy so we will continue to operate in that region," Bishop said.

The Australian newspaper reported Thursday that two Australian Anzac-class frigates are in China and will conduct a live-firing exercise with China's People's Liberation Army navy.

Other cabinet members of Australia had been delivering similar remarks, clarifying Australia's stance on the issue.

*Defense Minister Malise Payne said in a statement that "Australia is not involved in the current United States activity in the South China Sea".

Cabinet Secretary Arthur Sinodinos told Sky News that Australia did not have "any plans to do what the United States has done" in relation to freedom of navigation exercises.*

Earlier this week, a U.S. navy warship sailed within 12 nautical miles of Chinese islands in the South China Sea, constituting a grave challenge to peace and stability in the Asia-Pacific region.

Australia not to join U.S. operation in South China Sea: FM - Xinhua | English.news.cn

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## jhungary

Zsari said:


> Like I've already said, innocent passage have specific protocols to follow. For example you can't launch on board helicopter, you can't turn on your radar etc. Unless the US specifically stated it is exercising innocent passage, the chance are that it is not.
> Chinese naval vessels on the other hand are transiting through the Bering Strait, which according to UNCLOS on Straits, is called transit passage, which has less restrictive requirements than innocent passage. The two actions are actually very different legally speaking. And you know what's the biggest difference between the two? That innocent passage can be suspended by the costal state while transit passage cannot be.
> 
> 
> 
> Read the definition of international waterway in your own post.
> 
> _In __International Law__, international waterways are *straits, canals, and rivers* that connect two areas of the high seas or enable ocean shipping to reach interior ports on international seas, gulfs, or lakes that *otherwise would be land-locked*. International waterways also may be rivers that serve as international boundaries or traverse successively two or more states. Ships have a right of passage through international waterways._
> 
> The South China Sea by definition does not fall into the category of international waterway, or you can designate the entire world's ocean as international waterway. The below article is the only relevant restriction on artificial structures that it should not interfere with the use of recognized sea lanes. It is designed for narrow waterway and can't certainly be applied to vast sea, as I have yet to see anyone use that article as a justification against the Chinese construction.
> 
> _Article 60
> Artificial islands, installations and structures in the exclusive economic zone
> 7. Artificial islands, installations and structures and the safety zones around them may not be established where interference may be caused to the use of recognized sea lanes essential to international navigation._



OMG........You are still arguing an imagine stuff* I NEVER SAID*....

Let me dumb it down for you in point, so even you would understand

*1.) I Never said SCS is international waterway*

*2.) SCS is located within International Water (High Seas), intercepting EEZ between China, Vietnam, Taiwan, Malaysia and Philippine*

*3.) International Waterway is not equal to International Water (High Seas)*

*4.) Panama Canal is an International Waterway.*

*5.) International Waterways share the same rights with International Water (High Seas) as per UNCLOS*

*6.) International Water and International Waterways must remain permanently neutral and demilitarize*

*7.) I used the Panama Canal example to illustrate why it is wrong to build Military Structure in International Water and International Waterways.*

*8.) Chinese is militarize the SCS, this is what violating the UNCLOS*

*9.) As I said many time before, if you are confused about why I use panama canal as an example, I can use Principality of Zealand as an example. to illustrate why it was violating UNCLOS.
*
There, I never said SCS is international waterways. I used Panama Canal as an example to illustrate why you cannot build Military Structure on any *INTERNAIONAL WATER* (Be it High Seas, International Waterway, Exclusive Economic Zone or even Contagious Zone)

If you still do not understand what I said, then I can't help you.



Zsari said:


> Isn't that exactly what I've said? The freedom to construct artificial islands and other installations are permitted by international law.



No, you cannot reclaim something that does not belong to you. Hence when a location is on High Seas, they have too be remain neutral. The question is, only China see the island belong to China (Hence within 12Nm Territorial Water) where Other country (Vietnam, Philippine, Taiwan, Indonesia, Malaysia and Singapore) all have overlapping EEZ within SCS. So, as per UNCLOS, it would be considered as a High Seas, unless challenged otherwise. (Because if Chinese claim would have valid, then the island would also lies within all other country territorial water.)

China can, either challenge the definition, or leave UNCLOS unilaterally to resolve the problem, as I said many time, you cannot have both. 



> _The high seas are open to all States, whether coastal or land-locked. Freedom of the high seas is exercised under the conditions laid down by this Convention and by other rules of international law. It comprises, inter alia, both for coastal and land-locked States:
> (a) freedom of navigation;
> (b) freedom of overflight;
> (c) freedom to lay submarine cables and pipelines, subject to Part VI;
> (d) freedom to construct artificial islands and other installations permitted under international law, subject to Part VI;
> (e) freedom of fishing, subject to the conditions laid down in section 2;
> (f) freedom of scientific research, subject to Parts VI and XIII._
> 
> US simply includes all military activities as navigation which China disagrees, at least in its near shore.



Again, this is how UNCLOS works, you either leave, like the US, if you did not agree to the term, or bitch about it and stay in UNCLOS and conform to it's rules, you cannot do both.


----------



## BoQ77

while its main role is anti air anti ballistic, Uss lassen could use below missiles to antiship:
- Harpoon missiles
- SM-2 OTH supersonic missiles
- Tomahawk missiles.


----------



## Zsari

jhungary said:


> OMG........You are still arguing an imagine stuff* I NEVER SAID*....
> 
> Let me dumb it down for you in point, so even you would understand
> 
> *1.) I Never said SCS is international waterway*
> 
> *2.) SCS is located within International Water (High Seas), intercepting EEZ between China, Vietnam, Taiwan, Malaysia and Philippine*
> 
> *3.) International Waterway is not equal to International Water (High Seas)*
> 
> *4.) Panama Canal is an International Waterway.*
> 
> *5.) International Waterways share the same rights with International Water (High Seas) as per UNCLOS*
> 
> *6.) International Water and International Waterways must remain permanently neutral and demilitarize*
> 
> *7.) I used the Panama Canal example to illustrate why it is wrong to build Military Structure in International Water and International Waterways.*
> 
> *8.) Chinese is militarize the SCS, this is what violating the UNCLOS*
> 
> *9.) As I said many time before, if you are confused about why I use panama canal as an example, I can use Principality of Zealand as an example. to illustrate why it was violating UNCLOS.
> *
> There, I never said SCS is international waterways. I used Panama Canal as an example to illustrate why you cannot build Military Structure on any *INTERNAIONAL WATER* (Be it High Seas, International Waterway, Exclusive Economic Zone or even Contagious Zone)
> 
> If you still do not understand what I said, then I can't help you.



Oh boy. Please quote specific article in UNCLOS. And most importantly, China is building on the territory and territorial water it is claiming, not on the High Sea to begin with. An island/reef in the middle of the Pacific doesn't make it the High Sea.



Penguin said:


> Either on the high seas, or one's EEZ (i.e. there goes China's territorial claim, at least wrt Spratly's)



Wait, so you mean to say one can build on the high sea, or EEZ but not one's own territory and territorial water? You are joking right?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## jhungary

Zsari said:


> Oh boy. Please quote specific article in UNCLOS. And most importantly, China is building on the territory and territorial water it is claiming, not on the High Sea to begin with. An island/reef in the middle of the Pacific doesn't make it the High Sea.
> 
> 
> 
> Wait, so you mean to say one can build on the high sea, or EEZ but not one's own territory and territorial water? You are joking right?



Article 88, Part VII dictate High Seas must be used for Peaceful purpose only
UNCLOS and Agreement on Part XI - Preamble and frame index



> Article88
> 
> Reservation of the high seas for peaceful purposes
> 
> The high seas shall be reserved for peaceful purposes.



*And just because you claim something, that does not make something automatically belong to you. If China claim the island of Gibraltar today, should Chinese start constructing in Gibraltar tomorrow?*

As I said time and Again, I don't really care if Chinese claim have any legality in it, that's not up to me to decide. The problem I see, is either you stick it out with UNCLOS and conform to its condition and complaint about other aggression on an official channel, or you drop out of UNCLOS and claim and do whatever you want, then you lose the right to complain to others in an official capacity. China, at this moment, are ignoring the UNCLOS and complaining about the US. As I said, you can only do one, not both.


----------



## Zsari

jhungary said:


> Article 88, Part VII dictate High Seas must be used for Peaceful purpose only
> UNCLOS and Agreement on Part XI - Preamble and frame index


Lol. Military installation are there to maintain peace in the area, so its for peaceful purpose. Again you cannot change out words in a legal document.



jhungary said:


> And just because you claim something, that does not make something automatically belong to you. If China claim the island of Gibraltar today, should Chinese start constructing in Gibraltar tomorrow?



If China controls it, then sure it can.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## jhungary

Zsari said:


> Lol. Military installation are there to maintain peace in the area, so its for peaceful purpose. Again you cannot change out words in a legal document.



dude, you are changing the word on a legal document.



> Article301
> 
> Peaceful uses of the seas
> 
> In exercising their rights and performing their duties under this Convention, States Parties shall refrain from any threat or *use of force* against the territorial integrity or political independence of any State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the principles of international law embodied in the Charter of the United Nations.



Unless you don't count your military as part of "force" then building military building to accommodate military force is a use of force, as you deploy your force in that barrack or port, hence, you used your force. Unless you solely build a barrack and not occupying it. Then that would not be a barrack, it will simply be a building.



> If China controls it, then sure it can.



Yeah, tell that to your embassy


----------



## Abacin

Viva_Viet said:


> CN collapsed about 100 times in history


But each time China became bigger.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## TaiShang

*China: We're Ready for War If US Continues to 'Make a Fool of Itself' in South China Sea*

America: Making friends everywhere it goes! 

As part of Obama's ingenious “pivot to Asia”, Washington has decided to challenge Beijing's territorial claims in the South China Sea. U.S. Defense Secretary Ash Carter confirmed on Tuesday that a U.S. warship “had passed within 12 miles of a Chinese artificial island.” Considering that China is ringed by U.S. naval bases, starting in Japan and snaking down to South Korea, it's not difficult to imagine why China is “sort of upset” about these latest developments. 

Although a top Chinese admiral announced today that Beijing was open to dialogue with the U.S. regarding the South China Sea, the Chinese government seems to be running out of patience. In response to the U.S. maneuvers, Beijing called the action illegal, summoned the U.S. Ambassador, and then warned the U.S. not to “make a fool of itself”. Oh, and China is ready to take all necessary measures to protect its legitimate interests in the region. Watch this incredible video of Chinese foreign ministry spokesman Lu Kang slamming Washington: 

Here is the video of the statement: China: We're Ready for War If US Continues to 'Make a Fool of Itself' in South China Sea

American global hegemony is over. The sooner Washington accepts this, the better.

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Zsari

jhungary said:


> dude, you are changing the word on a legal document.



Which word did I change? Peaceful purpose is very different from neutral or demilitarize. The UN will say the deployment of peace keeper are for peaceful purpose, US states its military presence are for peaceful purpose, and China have already said the island construction are for peaceful purpose. Lol. Whether you believe it or not is another matter.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## terranMarine

China warns US not to make fool of itself over South China Sea – video | World news | The Guardian

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## TaiShang

There you go, a smart, business oriented country. If they are rational actors, these medium/small countries will balance both China and the US without favoring one strongly against the other. 

Hence, Australia is smart to on the one hand preach "oh, freedom of navigation“ while not actually taking a hard stance, and on the other, do business with everybody.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

Falcon29 said:


> Was not expecting that, this is a bold move that shows China is both serious and confident. I wonder what it will mean from now on? If China militarizes islands fully will it then regulate who can enter space near them or allow US sailing?



It was going to happen anyway, and as we've said we're not trying to affect freedom of movement in the area. After all most of the merchant ships in the world pass through there.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## jhungary

Zsari said:


> Which word did I change? Peaceful purpose is very different from neutral or demilitarize. The UN will say the deployment of peace keeper are for peaceful purpose, US states its military presence are for peaceful purpose, and China have already said the island construction are for peaceful purpose. Lol. Whether you believe it or not is another matter.



Again, tell it to your embassy what your definition of "Peaceful Purpose"


----------



## Zarvan

Over the past few days, much ink has been spilled about Indonesia’s rhetoric on the South China Sea disputes as the United States finally conducted a freedom of navigation operation near China’s artificial islands there.

While paying attention to what the world’s fourth largest country thinks is important, observers would do well to look beyond the words of a few individual officials to get a sense for Indonesia’s South China Sea approach.

A case in point was the brouhaha over the comments of Luhut Pandjaitan, one of Indonesian President Joko “Jokowi” Widodo’s top advisers. On Tuesday, according to _Kyodo News_, Pandjaitan said that Indonesia disagreed with the U.S. “power projection,” equating the move with ineffective wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. To some, such comments make it seem like Indonesia’s South China Sea position is slightly anti-U.S. – perhaps even pro-Chinese – and that Jakarta may not view Chinese assertiveness there with much alarm. In fact, that could not be further from the truth.

Pandjaitan’s exact comments, which were given offhand in response to a few reporters, ought not to be viewed as an official articulation of Indonesia’s South China Sea policy, which I have detailed at length previously (See: “No, Indonesia’s South China Sea Approach Has Not Changed”). More generally, parsing comments by individual Indonesian officials makes for good headlines but is a bad way to assess policy change because of the diversity of views that can emerge even within a few weeks. Indeed, just last week, Indonesian Defense Minister Ryamizard Ryacudu made the news when he suggested in Beijing that that if regional countries can manage the South China Sea on their own, “there’s no need to involve other parties in resolving the dispute.”

A less hyperbolic and more authoritative and comprehensive version of Jakarta’s approach was what Jokowi himself said in prepared remarks at the Brookings Institution, a Washington, D.C.-based think tank, while on his inaugural trip to the United States. As fate would have it, Jokowi wound up speaking just hours after the FONOP had occurred. As I reported for _The Diplomat_, Jokowi said that while Indonesia was not a South China Sea claimant, the country has an interest in the preservation of regional peace and stability (See: “Indonesia Calls for South China Sea Restraint Amid US-China Tensions”). He implored all sides – not just the United States – to exercise restraint. He also said tensions in the area must be defused through peaceful means based on international law and that China and ASEAN should make progress on a binding code of conduct (CoC).

Though Jokowi did not explicitly mention the illegality of China’s nine-dash line claim or Beijing’s foot-dragging on the CoC, it was clear what he was referring to. Indeed, when asked how Indonesia would manage its relationship with China following his speech, Jokowi acknowledged that Beijing was an “important partner” but spent the second half of his response on the South China Sea issue, clearly indicating its importance even within the Sino-Indonesian relationship. He also directly specified ensuring freedom of navigation as one of the key areas of focus in the South China Sea.

Suggestions that Indonesia’s South China Sea position is slightly ‘pro-China’ and ‘anti-U.S.’ are vastly overstated. If one looks at what Indonesia is doing in the South China Sea, as opposed to what individual Indonesian officials are saying, Jakarta’s actions clearly indicate that such simplistic characterizations could not be further from the truth. In reality, in response to China’s growing assertiveness over the last few years – which has included bold intrusions into Jakarta’s waters – Indonesia has been building up its own capabilities and has pursued closer security ties with other countries including the United States. Under Jokowi, the South China Sea issue has arguably been even more of a focus given the administration’s prickliness on questions of sovereignty and territorial integrity (See: “The Trouble With Indonesia’s Foreign Policy Priorities Under Jokowi”).

Just last week, Indonesia’s legislature authorized a proposal to allocate money for earlier plans to strengthen a military base directed at the resource-rich Natuna Islands, which overlap with China’s nine-dash line. Officials have openly said the plan is motivated by growing tensions in the South China Sea (See: “Why Is Indonesia Building a New South China Sea Military Base?”). In addition to the U.S.-Indonesia defense agreements reached during Jokowi’s visit, maritime security has also featured prominently in engagements between Washington and Jakarta, including during Jokowi’s summit meeting with U.S. President Barack Obama (See: “Exclusive: US, Indonesia Eye New Defense Pacts for Jokowi Visit”). Meanwhile, while Indonesia has pursued closer economic ties with Beijing, military officials admit privately that defense relations remain limited due to lingering mistrust (See: “China and Indonesia Under Jokowi: Show Me The Money”).

To be fair, Pandjaitan’s remarks – though hyperbolic with the comparison between FONOPs and all-out wars – do reflect broader tendencies within Indonesian foreign policy that continue to inform the views of some today. Jakarta has traditionally viewed intervention by major powers with suspicion; it prefers not to take sides between major powers and instead focuses on preserving its own autonomy and exercising regional leadership. And while U.S.-Indonesia relations have been on the uptick, close observers of the relationship know that ties have long been strained by America’s ‘complex’ historical legacy there – as evidenced by its involvement in support for anti-communist rebellions in Indonesia in the 1950s – as well as recent U.S. wars in the Middle East, which are unpopular in the world’s largest Muslim-majority nation.

Pandjaitan may have meant for his South China Sea comments to reflect these general tendencies. His message might have been that Indonesia is neither opposed to U.S. preservation of freedom of navigation nor tolerant of Beijing’s growing assertiveness; Jakarta is merely concerned that U.S. FONOPs would risk exacerbating U.S.-China rivalry, thereby undermining regional stability and Indonesia’s national autonomy by forcing it to pick sides. Such a view is one shared by other regional states and reflects Indonesia’s preference to walk a careful balance between major powers. And we saw similar concerns even before Jokowi came to power. For instance, when Washington announced the rotational basing of 2,500 marines in Darwin, Australia back in 2011 as part of its “rebalance to Asia,” then-Foreign Minister Marty Natalegawa declared that the move would create a “vicious cycle of tension and mistrust” between Washington and Beijing where Southeast Asian states may be forced to take sides.

But the broader point is this: while parsing the words of every Indonesian official in search of headlines or policy shifts, outside observers should not be fooled into thinking that these statements represent authoritative articulations of Indonesia’s current position or signal potential change. Rhetoric is often not reality. And actions do speak much louder than words when it comes to Indonesia’s South China Sea policy — if only they were heard.

What’s Behind Indonesia’s South China Sea Rhetoric Amid US-China Tensions? | The Diplomat

@Indos @madokafc @Jakartans@PkDef @anas_nurhafidz @Reashot Xigwin

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

*US Navy to send more vessels near artificial islands built by Beijing, says US official; 'We will fly, sail and operate wherever international law permits,' says US Defence Secretary Ash Carter.*

PUBLISHED : Wednesday, 28 October, 2015, 10:13am
UPDATED : Wednesday, 28 October, 2015, 4:25pm





The USS Lassen guided-missile destroyer sailed within 12 nautical miles (22km) of at least one of the land formations claimed by China in the disputed Spratly Islands chain early on Tuesday (local time).

The move infuriated Beijing, which summoned the US ambassador and denounced what it called a threat to its sovereignty.

*READ MORE: US ‘playing with fire’: Chinese media’s fury after warship sails near disputed South China Sea islands*

"We will do it again," the US official told Agence France-Presse on Tuesday, speaking on condition of anonymity.

*

*
“We sail in international waters at a time and place of our choosing.”

Washington’s move followed months of deliberation by the administration of President Barack Obama and could raise tension in one of the world’s busiest shipping lanes and increase strains on US-China relations.

Another US defence official said the Lassen also went within the 12-nautical-mile limits of other reefs and features in the disputed sea claimed by Vietnam and US treaty ally, the Philippines.

US Defence Secretary Ash Carter, testifying to the Senate Armed Services Committee on Tuesday, initially said only that the US Navy had conducted operations in the South China Sea.

However, under questioning from lawmakers he said the USS Lassen had passed within 12 nautical miles of a Chinese artificial island.

“We will fly, sail and operate wherever international law permits and whenever our operational needs require,” Carter told the Senate.

*Read more: Beijing has options if US escalates challenge to its claims in South China Sea*

The officials said such “freedom-of-navigation” patrols were expected to become more frequent.

The US destroyer sailed within 12 nautical miles of Subi Reef, an artificial island built up by China in the past year.

The second US defence official said the Lassen was followed at a safe distance by a Chinese ship and no incidents were reported during the 115km passage.

“I would expect that this becomes a regular operation in the South China Sea,” the official said. “This type of operation shouldn’t be seen as provocative.”

The official said the Lassen had been followed for weeks by Chinese vessels before the patrol.

Two other US officials said there was bridge-to-bridge radio communication with the Chinese as the Lassen approached Subi Reef.

One of the officials said the Chinese did not shadow the US warship as closely when it came within 12 nautical miles of the islands claimed by the Philippines and Vietnam.

Carter told the Senate.Subi and nearby Mischief Reef were submerged at high tide before China began a dredging project to turn them into islands in 2014.

Under the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea, 12-nautical mile limits cannot be set around man-made islands built on previously submerged reefs.

The White House said Washington had made clear to Beijing, even during last month’s visit by President Xi Jinping, that the US would fly or sail anywhere that international law allowed and stressed the importance of the South China Sea for commerce.

*Watch: China warns US over sea patrols in South China Sea*
Asked on Tuesday about the patrol, White House spokesman Eric Schultz said he could not discuss details about military operations, but added: “Our freedom of navigation operations do not assert any specific US rights.”

US State Department spokesman John Kirby told a regular briefing that, “setting this aside, the US-China relationship is vitally important and one we want to see continue to improve and to grow for the benefit of both our countries, not to mention the region”.

A range of security experts have said Washington’s freedom-of-navigation patrols would have to be regular to be effective, given Chinese ambitions to project power deep into maritime Southeast Asia and beyond.

“By [the US] using a guided-missile destroyer, rather than smaller vessels ... they are sending a strong message,” said Ian Storey, of Singapore’s Institute of South East Asian Studies.

“They have also said, significantly, that there will be more patrols – so it really now is up to China how it will respond.”

*Watch: US patrols in South China Sea not a problem: Philippine President*
Philippine President Benigno Aquino, speaking to foreign correspondents in Manila, said he supported the US naval manoeuvres as an assertion of freedom of navigation and as a means to balance power in the region.

“I think expressing support for established norms of international behaviour should not be a negative for a country,” he said.

“I think everybody would welcome a balance of power anywhere in the world.”

Without identifying China by name, he said “one regional power” has been making “controversial pronouncements” that must not be left unchallenged.

*Agence France-Presse, Reuters and Associated Press *


War of words: Beijing fumes as US threatens to send more warships near disputed South China Sea islets | South China Morning Post

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## oproh

Great to see that the islands being built by China is continuously growing fast, america should sail nearer if they want to learn some great techniques when it comes to island building, too bad they can't.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## C130

it's very simple. a coalition of ships should sail through the area every once in awhile.

U.S+ASEAN.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## terranMarine

C130 said:


> it's very simple. a coalition of ships should sail through the area every once in awhile.
> 
> U.S+ASEAN.



RUSSIA + CHINA should visit your shores more frequently too

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Kyle Sun

The dog will bark at us with arrogance while its lord is standing beside him.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## C130

terranMarine said:


> RUSSIA + CHINA should visit your shores more frequently too




that is your right, but no one recognizes your claim to the entire SCS.
Tribunal Rules It Can Arbitrate South China Sea Dispute - WSJ


Kyle Sun said:


> The dog will bark at us with arrogance while its lord is standing beside him.



how much does the U.S trade with China? how much does China trade with ASEAN


----------



## terranMarine

C130 said:


> that is your right, but no one recognizes your claim to the entire SCS.
> Tribunal Rules It Can Arbitrate South China Sea Dispute - WSJ


Funny you said that, Taiwan recognizes it since it also claims the 9 dash line too

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Nan Yang

C130 said:


> it's very simple. a coalition of ships should sail through the area every once in awhile.
> 
> U.S+ASEAN.


Not really.

No ASEAN country are joining US. Maybe Philippines

Australia actually is joining China
Australia to join Chinese navy exercises in South China Sea| Reuters

Japan is unlikely.
Why Japan Won’t Get Too Involved in the South China Sea | The Diplomat

US is pretty much on its own. Which makes it meaningless.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## oproh

Great news, this will stop the vietnamese pirates from abusing natural resources in South China Sea.

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## C130

Nan Yang said:


> Not really.
> 
> No ASEAN country are joining US. Maybe Philippines
> 
> Australia already says no.
> 
> Japan is unlikely.
> Why Japan Won’t Get Too Involved in the South China Sea | The Diplomat
> 
> US is on its own. Which makes it meaningless.




don't care for Australia since well they rely on China heavily to buy their Iron ore and Coal, but even China is cutting that off.
Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian
Australian coal the loser as China looks for cheaper, greener options | afr.com
and Japan isn't part of ASEAN and is pacifist 


like I said no one recognizes China claim. they won't do anything since they know who feeds them


----------



## terranMarine

Japan is a pacifist thanks to US

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Roybot

Pretty embarrassing.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TaiShang

*China, US differ on freedom of navigation*
Reporter: _Han Bin _丨 CCTV.com

10-30-2015 06:20 BJT

The Chinese National Defence Ministry has once again expressed resolute opposition over the USS Lassen's patrol near the related islands and reefs of China's Nansha Islands in the South China Sea. The Military says it "has both the will and capability to tackle the issue, and will take measures needed." Such remarks are made by the National Defence spokesman at a regular press conference Thursday.

A true test in the China-US military ties. The USS Lassen's patrol off China's Nansha islands. The US says it's an exercise of freedom of navigation. China regards it a misuse of international law.

"China has always respected freedom of navigation and over-flight, according to the international law. But we are strongly against any kind of efforts, in the name of freedom of navigation, that may damage the interest of the literal states," Yang Yujun, spokesman Chinese Natinoal Defense Ministry, said.

US officials say that Washington takes the position on freedom of navigation, as it has direct interest in the region.

"We do not have a claim in the South China Sea. But what we want to see in the United States are the protocols of international that adhere to the international law globally," Gary Roughead, former US Chief of Naval Operations, said.

China has consistently protested against US regular surveillance operations within its Exclusive Economic Zones.

"China still would not endorse America's daily reconnaissance in China's EEZ, because we consider you are not coming here to offer us olive branch, you are breaking into my backyard, and try to take my pin number of my save in my house," Sr. Col Zhou Bo, director of Center For Int'l Security Cooperation, CMND, said.

The two sides have new agreements on issues like unexpected encounters at sea and notification on major military activities. But the technological agreements can't resolve the bigger strategic issue.

"We urge the US not to continue down the wrong path. But if the US side does continue, we'll take all necessary measures needed," Yang said.

It's long been clear that US China don't see eye to eye to each other on t freedom of navigation, particularly when it comes to military vessels.. The recent incident shows just how close to conflict those differences can be. Still, the US freedom of navigation operations will not change China's claims, nor stop China's efforts in strengthen its claims in the Stouth China Sea.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Abacin

US only gains face and get no profit at all by this kind of sailing. This will speed up the USA debt and accelerate the withdraw of the USA navy from the region. This is the dilemma of an over-expanded empire. Over-expansion destroys the balance sheet while the empire's dignity pushes for silly behaviors like this. USA is on the way to fall as British empires and Soviet Empires. 

The sailing will only speed up the militarizing SCS by China. In one sense, USA is doing China a favor. Before the pivotal to Asia, China had nearly nothing on SCS; now SCS is slowly becoming Guam of China.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## oproh

US threatens to send more warships near Chinese islands so that their soldiers can watch and be amazed at China's continuously developing islands.

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## TaiShang

We will increase the build-up in response. A favorable trade-off.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Abacin

if US does this regularly and has to stop it one day due to budget, this will be solid proof that China is exceptional. China has the home advantage in SCS while SCS is the over expanded area of US empire.As long as China sticks, US is losing the competition without solid support from Vietnam, Philippine and Japan. But Vietnam and Philippine are nearly nothing and Japan is falling hardly. Poor US

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Kyle Sun

C130 said:


> how much does the U.S trade with China? how much does China trade with ASEAN


it has nothing to do with the money.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Abacin

An Empire like US is working hard for its followers' interest at its own cost. Something is deeply wrong here. This usually marks the turning point of an empire.

Be frank. Obama is dumber than Bush. Bush's Afganistan and Iraq policy is trying to see the expansion limit of US empire. Obama is doing aimless, just for empire's dignity. He pushes China, Russia and Europe to work together for the first time in the history. He also try to binds US interests to falling Japan. Most people can clearly see that Japan is sinking. As soon as Japan's neighbor finishes industrialization, Japan looses industrial advantage and It sinks even when all its neighbors are flying.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## dy1022

Heart attack, man!!!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## terranMarine

They just don't get it, every time they do a thing it will be paid back by China. Japan tried to buy Diaoyu, Japanese economy dwindled fast. Abe had to agree to China's terms in order to improve economic ties again. What did China gain? East Sea ADIZ. VN started with land reclamation, we had the perfect excuse to show how it can be done more effectively. US tries to challenge our islands, now we speed it up and arm them. The more these foolish countries pushes China the harder the pay back will be.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Abacin

The problem of Obama is that he had never managed a business or a city/town before he became the president. He simply has no business sense. he is a peaceful president, but he increases much more US debts than war president Bush. He even cannot let Philippine, Vietnam or Japan to pay the SCS sailing bill. The first Bush even let Saudia and Japan pay the first gulf war bill. Japan even wants to cut the bills on US bases in Japan.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## TaiShang

Abacin said:


> The problem of Obama is that he had never managed a business or a city/town before he became the president. He simply has no business sense. he is a peaceful president, but he increases much more US debts than war president Bush. He even cannot let Philippine, Vietnam or Japan to pay the SCS sailing bill. The first Bush even let Saudia and Japan pay the first gulf war bill. Japan even wants to cut the bills on US bases in Japan.



Good points, indeed.

Japan seeks to cut spending on US military bases – report — RT News

The question is, can VN and PH foot the bill of US expenses like Japan does -- and even Japan is now complaining?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## terranMarine

TaiShang said:


> Good points, indeed.
> 
> Japan seeks to cut spending on US military bases – report — RT News
> 
> The question is, can VN and PH foot the bill of US expenses like Japan does -- and even Japan is now complaining?


South Korea has been complaining too a while ago

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Hyperion

Wrong timing on China's part. The move was at least 10 years premature. Whatever the case, one thing everyone can be sure of is that Pentagon will end up fvcking themselves in the ***.......


----------



## Srinivas

The whole scenario is like a mouse has entered into a mouse trap covered 3 sides and US has maneuvered it self to be a hunter in that area.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## dichoi

USA has good chance to enter in to SCS dispute. In fact , stupid Chinese invited USA back to Asia.


----------



## Abacin

Hyperion said:


> Wrong timing on China's part. The move was at least 10 years premature. Whatever the case, one thing everyone can be sure of is that Pentagon will end up fvcking themselves in the ***.......


You never have perfect timing. Your rival will never let you have perfect timing. China has prepared SCS movements more than 50 years, starting with 1974 recovery of Xisha islands, 1988 part of nasha islands. China has long planned to militarize SCS as the first step towards deep blue sea naval power. US clearly knew it. But it was busy at Russia in 1990s and Mideast in 2000s. As soon as US had the spare power, US took the step for pivotal to Asia to contain China. China quickly took the chance to militarize SCS with long prepared resources and technology. Both US and China are very smart players in SCS. But US is way over expanded. If it took pivotal to Asia in 1990s, China would lose shirts. The over expansion of US powers gave China precious extra 20 years' time and cost US huge precious resources. I bet that even US knows that it will lose SCS and Taiwan to China. It is simply asking China to offer a good price, such as more opening Chinese market to US companies and more US interests in China.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## mike jones

I don't think its really a threat. US knows that this is their usual routine path. Chinese islands never existed according to the US.


----------



## Abacin

dichoi said:


> USA has good chance to enter in to SCS dispute. In fact , stupid Chinese invited USA back to Asia.


It was long planned by USA. USA will come to SCS at any excuse. Just like that it can fake an excuse to occupy Iraq for its great Mideast strategy. USA is very good geopolitical player. it plays according to its geopolitical plan to become the forever sole superpower in this planet by destroying all complete industrial systems. US will become the sole complete industrial system while all others are dependent industrial systems such as Japan. It planed to dismember Russia in 1990s and dismember China in 2000s. Putin came out and helped the survival of Russia. If Putin didn't win chechen war, Russia might have become another Soviet with more and more republics leaving Russia, just as Gorbechev lose to independent movement in Baltic republic. Bin laden helped China and gave China 10 precious years. Otherwise US would choose China first instead of mid east.

US has prepared many cards such taiwan independence, East Turkestan, Tibet independence, South Mongolia independence for dismembering China. All of them are well coordinated by CIA.

Bush was really ambitious. He wanted to establish solid US bases in from Central Asia to Mid-East. These bases will provide solid support to separation movements in Russia caucasian republics and Xinjiang and Tibet separatists. It will also cut any connections between China and Russia and allow USA to eat China or Russia one by one. If both China and Russia were finished, in this planet, USA is the only country with complete industrial systems. All other countries can only work on part of industrial jobs at the order of USA. Japan is one solid example. It only can work on areas USA allows it to work on.

That's why even Europe didn't support Bush's Mid-East strategy. This threatens Europe's industrial freedom.

SCS has become the most critical area in this world now. All major powers are happily watching China and United States having head-to-head conflicts. Europe has never enjoyed such a great freedom in foreign policy. It can openly object to US foreign policy now. Russia can take Crimea freely and start to come to Mid-East since most of US resources are dragged by China in SCS and ECS.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

oproh said:


> Great news, this will stop the vietnamese pirates from abusing natural resources in South China Sea.



Natural resources are nice.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## LeslieEngel

I am happy to be a part this discussion.


----------



## Abacin

As long as China holds on USA in SCS, more and more countries will come to help China. Europe, Russia, even India and Japan will help China publicly or stealthily. Japan gains more and more independence from USA with China-USA. All of these countries want China to drag on USA so that they can gain freedom from US control or pressures.



TaiShang said:


> All it takes to drag the US into the Middle East as comprehensively as it was in the 2000s is yet another terror attack, this time by ISIS or other US-supported/terrorist groups.
> 
> If Al Qaeda could pull out 9/11, ISIS is more capable of doing so, this time probably through home-terrorists (US-based terrorists)
> 
> This may easily give China some extra needs. In my view, we need a favorable regional/global situation until the 2020s.
> 
> Then the game is over for the US.


ISIS is created by USA. Since USA cannot hold on Mid-East, USA doesn't want major powers of IRan, Russia to fill the vacuum. ISIS's job is simply to keep the mid-east from other powers for USA so that USA can shift its power to take on China. But Putin forms Russia-IRan-Syria alliance and determine to fill the vacuum. Now USA is really having headache now. It is considering to take on ISIS by ground forces to avoid Russia take-up. USA war on two fronts is really crazy. Only inexperienced president such as Obama can do it.

Obama has no business sense, no executable strategy. From domestic healthcare, debt reduction to foreign policy, nothing has a solid strategy.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## terranMarine

After Soviet Union went bankrupt it was Yugoslavia's turn to fall. The Americans could have been behind the Tienanmen protest. But the war in Afghanistan and Iraq gave China precious time indeed and for that we owe them a big thank. Americans wanted to cripple Russia with Georgia, Ukraine and then Syria but to no avail. Taiwan and HK are lost cause too and Tibet separation plan failed thanks to our genius Mao. Iran would not be safe either had Syria fallen. 

US wanted to f*ck Libya and Syria as a result EU is screwd with those refugees. The more reason for Europeans to join AIIB. The connectivity between China and EU through the silk road can only receive positive reactions from all the involved parties and the US is the one being left out. That's why the UK desperately wants to be China's best friend. The British and Aussies sure are smart to stay away from the SCS conflict

One thing is for sure, the US does not have the resources to take on both Russia, ME and China. If the pivot to Asia is gonna take priority our Russian buddies will fill in the vacancy. The simple minded Viets and Pinoys are too dumb to see this. Even if the US now meddles with SCS nothing will change for them, they are mere pawns in American world domination plan.

With these pieces on the board, the "axis of evil" countries are gonna fry the yankees

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## BuddhaPalm

China naval chief says minor incident could spark war in South China Sea - Yahoo News

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## TaiShang

Abacin said:


> As long as China holds on USA in SCS, more and more countries will come to help China. Europe, Russia, even India and Japan will help China publicly or stealthily. Japan gains more and more independence from USA with China-USA. All of these countries want China to drag on USA so that they can gain freedom from US control or pressures.
> 
> 
> ISIS is created by USA. Since USA cannot hold on Mid-East, USA doesn't want major powers of IRan, Russia to fill the vacuum. ISIS's job is simply to keep the mid-east from other powers for USA so that USA can shift its power to take on China. But Putin forms Russia-IRan-Syria alliance and determine to fill the vacuum. Now USA is really having headache now. It is considering to take on ISIS by ground forces to avoid Russia take-up. USA war on two fronts is really crazy. Only inexperienced president such as Obama can do it.
> 
> Obama has no business sense, no executable strategy. From domestic healthcare, debt reduction to foreign policy, nothing has a solid strategy.



Nonetheless, it would not be a first if the ghost of blowback made a brutal return, this time clad in ISIS clothes rather than some Saudi trainees with stationary knives. Even loyalty to the US is not a guarantee that they would come back one day and decide to bomb you in pieces. ISIS would at least try to bite the hand if the US strikes really start to hurt. This is becoming a likelihood, in fact, especially after Russia joined the game. US can no longer stealthily support the ISIS and various other terrorist groups with different hues of color -- from light green to dark black.

I wonder what would be the implications if an ISIS-led incident happens in the US.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Luca1

Abacin said:


> As long as China holds on USA in SCS, more and more countries will come to help China. Europe, Russia, even India and Japan will help China publicly or stealthily. Japan gains more and more independence from USA with China-USA. All of these countries want China to drag on USA so that they can gain freedom from US control or pressures.
> 
> 
> ISIS is created by USA. Since USA cannot hold on Mid-East, USA doesn't want major powers of IRan, Russia to fill the vacuum. ISIS's job is simply to keep the mid-east from other powers for USA so that USA can shift its power to take on China. But Putin forms Russia-IRan-Syria alliance and determine to fill the vacuum. Now USA is really having headache now. It is considering to take on ISIS by ground forces to avoid Russia take-up. USA war on two fronts is really crazy. Only inexperienced president such as Obama can do it.
> 
> Obama has no business sense, no executable strategy. From domestic healthcare, debt reduction to foreign policy, nothing has a solid strategy.



I agree that Obama is really screwing everything up. All these hope and change are real disasters.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viva_Viet

C130 said:


> it's very simple. a coalition of ships should sail through the area every once in awhile.
> 
> U.S+ASEAN.


Pls send some big US fishing vessels to have more fun



Abacin said:


> if US does this regularly and has to stop it one day due to budget, this will be solid proof that China is exceptional. China has the home advantage in SCS while SCS is the over expanded area of US empire.As long as China sticks, US is losing the competition without solid support from Vietnam, Philippine and Japan. But Vietnam and Philippine are nearly nothing and Japan is falling hardly. Poor US


VN will get richer and stronger thanks to TPP while CN economy will keep falling and making more young pple to crawl aroud the lake just for keeping low paid jobs.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## k_arura

BuddhaPalm said:


> China naval chief says minor incident could spark war in South China Sea - Yahoo News


These "threats" are getting awfully yawn-inspiring

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## pher

k_arura said:


> These "threats" are getting awfully yawn-inspiring


the message is for US goverment, did we expect here that an indian was capable of understanding? don't assume that everybody worship americans like a god like you people.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Viet

Nan Yang said:


> Not really.
> 
> No ASEAN country are joining US. Maybe Philippines
> 
> Australia actually is joining China
> Australia to join Chinese navy exercises in South China Sea| Reuters
> 
> Japan is unlikely.
> Why Japan Won’t Get Too Involved in the South China Sea | The Diplomat
> 
> US is pretty much on its own. Which makes it meaningless.


If you begin to believe to your own propaganda, then it is time to visit a doctor. The US will continue with provocations until the chinese lose the nerves and fire on US warships. Things will become interesting after that.

You can expect the retaliation not only from America but from the NATO. And Japan and South Korea. All US allies. All obligned to defend America if the country comes under attack.


----------



## BuddhaPalm

We still hold the most strategic islands in the Spratlys and now we will deploy fighter jets on them for power projection.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## 21 Dec 2012

BuddhaPalm said:


> We still hold the most strategic islands in the Spratlys and now we will deploy fighter jets on them for power projection.


And then do what? Take pictures when another USN warship sail past your territorial waters?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Declein

The whole point of those islands is to claim sovereignty.That's kinda' hard when the USA doesn't give 0.2 cents on this claim and parks war vessels right on them.


----------



## BuddhaPalm

21 Dec 2012 said:


> And then do what? Take pictures when another USN warship sail past your territorial waters?





Declein said:


> They'll protest in a more sterner tone (and take some pictures and get more buthurt)


We are already maintaining local military superiority at a ratio of 2:1 by militarizing the islands. We will crush them with twice superior numbers at sea and wipe out any Southeast Asian military bases they have. It could come to a tactical nuclear exchange. Good thing we have lots of tactical nukes and anti-sat weapons.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Declein

BuddhaPalm said:


> We are already maintaining local military superiority at a ratio of 2:1 by militarizing the islands. We will crush them with twice superior numbers at sea and wipe out any Southeast Asian military bases they have. It could come to a tactical nuclear exchange. Good thing we have lots of tactical nukes and anti-sat weapons.



Nobody cares.Get ready to wave the next one going by.


----------



## Declein

pher said:


> didn't you see the mighty US navy ship running like a jumpy rabbit in the sea after our boats chased them off? they don't give 0.2 cents but enormous dollar more the whole romania to execute such risk endeavor. don't embrass too much to your US master in this event.



Whatever, they will still come and go next to your "islands" as they please. And of course China will do 0 to challenge that.


----------



## Declein

Sanchez said:


> Why does this concern you, Romanian？ Never heard about it.



Personally, not much, even though we are in a military alliance with them. It was getting tiring reading the complete non sense regarding those "islands" here and in other media and a does of reality never hurt anyone.


----------



## pher

Declein said:


> Whatever, they will still come and go next to your "islands" as they please. And of course China will do 0 to challenge that.


this is a game that big powers play which is far far beyond your league to even make a comment. we all know you people have a heart of US bootlicking and we would like to have it taken cared of by russians, to whom we would provide all necessay supports of course.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## dichoi

BuddhaPalm said:


> China naval chief says minor incident could spark war in South China Sea - Yahoo News



Chinese is afraid, ...


----------



## terranMarine

Jlaw said:


> that is what 大菜 meant to say


 nice one

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

terranMarine said:


> I thought he said VN was gonna use those missiles to sink our islands



If they have enough firepower to "sink" these islands, then we have enough firepower to sink Vietnam. 

*If

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Nan Yang

Viet said:


> If you begin to believe to your own propaganda, then it is time to visit a doctor. The US will continue with provocations until the chinese lose the nerves and fire on US warships. Things will become interesting after that.
> 
> You can expect the retaliation not only from America but from the NATO. And Japan and South Korea. All US allies. All obligned to defend America if the country comes under attack.



No. I believe China will just play "wait and see". China already said that they will not be the first to first to open fire.
You do not want any conflict in your backyard. If there is, we all loss and US wins. US is far away and protected by two ocean.

Don't be like an Arab.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Solomon2

*US/CHINA CNO Discussion Readout*
Story Number: NNS151029-10 Release Date: 10/29/2015 12:40:00 PM





Official U.S. Navy file photo of Chief of Naval Operations Adm. John Richardson.

From Chief of Naval Operations Public Affairs
WASHINGTON (NNS) -- Chief of Naval Operations Adm. John Richardson participated in a video teleconference (VTC), Oct. 29, with his Chinese counterpart, People's Liberation Army (Navy) (PLA(N)) Commander Adm. Wu Shengli to discuss ongoing engagements between the two navies and recent operations in the South China Sea.

This was the second time Richardson has engaged with Wu over the VTC, the last being in Aug 2015.

During the latest call, Richardson and Wu discussed U.S. freedom of navigation operations; the relationship between the two navies, including pending port visits and senior leader engagement; and the importance of maintaining an ongoing dialogue.

U.S. freedom of navigation operations are global in scope, and executed across a wide range of maritime claims. The operations serve to protect the rights, freedoms, and lawful uses of the sea and airspace guaranteed to all nations under international law. Freedom of navigation operations are not a challenge to the sovereignty of land features. The United States takes no position on competing sovereignty claims to land features in the South China Sea. 

Both admirals agreed to speak again via VTC later this year.

For more news from the Chief of Naval Operations, visit Navy Leadership -- Chief of Naval Operations


----------



## oproh

Declein said:


> Whatever, they will still come and go next to your "islands" as they please. And of course China will do 0 to challenge that.


So did america's patrol resulted in China's islands disappearing, if no then it simply means that america's challenge to China failed miserably.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Nan Yang

ganesh623 said:


> Grabbing my popcorn, let the game begin enough of talking from both sides.


You will be disappointed.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ahtan_china

Viet said:


> If you begin to believe to your own propaganda, then it is time to visit a doctor. The US will continue with provocations until the chinese lose the nerves and fire on US warships. Things will become interesting after that.
> 
> You can expect the retaliation not only from America but from the NATO. And Japan and South Korea. All US allies. All obligned to defend America if the country comes under attack.


The U-2 spy plane was shoot down by China in 50+ years ago. What would be happen?
The USA gave benefit(TPP) to you Viet. Don't just talk. Do something for your master.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

pher said:


> are you stupid or naive or both?
> 
> nato and korea will fight war with china for US? what a delution is that? you thought they were as dumb as you vites, who experienced the most pathetic life on earth in the last 100 years untill now. ask the people around you in germany, did the have the guts or willpower to fight today's china, you ignorant.
> 
> you bet if we just lend a little bit help more to russia, those european countries will rush us to beg for stop. remember the PM of your hosting country currently is in china and she promises to support everything of our wish to just keep us happy.


it is you who is dumb!

article 5 of the NATO treaty clearly requires member states to come to the aid of any member state subject to an armed attack. a chinese attack on America is an attack on all NATO members.

and you are naive, too, if you place chinese fate on the poker table, betting other states will sit idle doing nothing.

the US can demand assistance from Germany. do you think the germans will say NO?


----------



## jhungary

Nan Yang said:


> Not really.
> 
> No ASEAN country are joining US. Maybe Philippines
> 
> Australia actually is joining China
> Australia to join Chinese navy exercises in South China Sea| Reuters
> 
> Japan is unlikely.
> Why Japan Won’t Get Too Involved in the South China Sea | The Diplomat
> 
> US is pretty much on its own. Which makes it meaningless.



said that many time here, Australia do not take any side, not Chinese, not the US.

We have RAAF regularly patrol the SCS with the US navy, and we are getting more cooperation from the US navy as well. The Australian-Chinese Exercise and the port visit have been arranged/scheduled prior to Talisman Sabre 2015 exercise, just because Aussie joining a long agreed Exercise with China does not mean we took the Chinese side.


----------



## Penguin

Zsari said:


> Wait, so you mean to say one can build on the high sea, or EEZ but not one's own territory and territorial water? You are joking right?


Read the relevant treaty articles as pertaining to artificial structures. And don't put words in my mouth: I never said anything about building artificial structures on territorial waters.

Point here is that if you have a reef and put a artifucial structure on it (i.e. it is not a naturally formed island) it isn't recognized as your territory to begin with. See how the US is approching this (as indicated earlier).

Put differenly: a coastal state can build artificial structures in EEZ and on high seas (i.e. outside its territorial waters) but that don't make them territory. One could argue only a 500m safety zone around an artificially created object would be allowed.


----------



## Zsari

Penguin said:


> Read the relevant treaty articles as pertaining to artificial structures. And don't put words in my mouth: I never said anything about building artificial structures on territorial waters.
> 
> Point here is that if you have a reef and put a artifucial structure on it (i.e. it is not a naturally formed island) it isn't recognized as your territory to begin with. See how the US is approching this (as indicated earlier).
> 
> Put differenly: a coastal state can build artificial structures in EEZ and on high seas (i.e. outside its territorial waters) but that don't make them territory. One could argue only a 500m safety zone around an artificially created object would be allowed.


 
Ah, you got the idea wrong. China is not saying "I build it, now its mine", but rather "its mine so I build on it", which is what other states in the SCS are doing as well.



jhungary said:


> Again, tell it to your embassy what your definition of "Peaceful Purpose"


 
Don't need me to tell them, as they have been saying that all along.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## jhungary

Zsari said:


> Don't need me to tell them, as they have been saying that all along.



dude, are you actually living in the US?

This is a phase, means tell that to someone who cares.

That means, I don't care.


----------



## Zsari

jhungary said:


> dude, are you actually living in the US?
> 
> This is a phase, means tell that to someone who cares.
> 
> That means, I don't care.


 
Been here 29 years, first time I've heard that though.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## jhungary

Zsari said:


> Been here 29 years, first time I've heard that though.



then either your English is Shite or You haven't been living in the US for 29 years

Tell Someone Who Cares Quotes


----------



## anon45

jhungary said:


> said that many time here, Australia do not take any side, not Chinese, not the US.
> 
> We have RAAF regularly patrol the SCS with the US navy, and we are getting more cooperation from the US navy as well. The Australian-Chinese Exercise and the port visit have been arranged/scheduled prior to Talisman Sabre 2015 exercise, just because Aussie joining a long agreed Exercise with China does not mean we took the Chinese side.



I'd still say Australia is by far more aligned with the US politically and militarily.



mike jones said:


> I don't think its really a threat. US knows that this is their usual routine path. Chinese islands never existed according to the US.



I agree it's not a threat, just a fact.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## pher

Viet said:


> it is you who is dumb!
> 
> article 5 of the NATO treaty clearly requires member states to come to the aid of any member state subject to an armed attack. a chinese attack on America is an attack on all NATO members.
> 
> and you are naive, too, if you place chinese fate on the poker table, betting other states will sit idle doing nothing.
> 
> the US can demand assistance from Germany. do you think the germans will say NO?


go to study again, you dumb viet.
Nato country has obligation to US only if US soil got attacked, not in the case when US sails thousdands miles away to fight war with others. Did nato participate in US' boming and spraying orange agent in vienam? no, because they don't have such kind of obligation unless they volunteerly jump in for fun.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zsari

jhungary said:


> then either your English is Shite or You haven't been living in the US for 29 years
> 
> Tell Someone Who Cares Quotes


 
Tell that to your embassy? Lol.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## jhungary

anon45 said:


> I'd still say Australia is by far more aligned with the US politically and militarily.
> 
> I agree it's not a threat, just a fact.



yes, largely. The last pro-China PM K-Rudd was oust from the job in 2009, you can see how pro-China Australia really is......


----------



## jhungary

Zsari said:


> Tell that to your embassy? Lol.



I don't have an embassy here, I live in my country. So basically everybody care what I have to say. You? I don't know


----------



## Penguin

Zsari said:


> Ah, you got the idea wrong. China is not saying "I build it, now its mine", but rather "its mine so I build on it", which is what other states in the SCS are doing as well.
> 
> Don't need me to tell them, as they have been saying that all along.



If it is just a reef, it is not territory. If you construct on a reef, it doesn't suddenly become (is)land or territory. See applicable articles.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zsari

Penguin said:


> If it is just a reef, it is not territory. If you construct on a reef, it doesn't suddenly become (is)land or territory.


 
Even completely submerged rock are claimed by countries as territory, or else we wouldn't have the dispute in the SCS in the first place.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## anon45

Looks like we see where the EU stands

European Union sides with United States on South China Sea incident| Reuters



> The European Union sided with Washington on Friday over a U.S.-Chinese patrolling incident in the South China Sea, in a move that may affect Brussels' discussions with Beijing at next week's Asia-Europe Meeting (ASEM) of foreign affairs ministers.
> 
> On Tuesday, a U.S. warship sailed within 12 nautical miles of one of Beijing's man-made islands in the contested Spratly archipelago, triggering a sharp reaction from China.
> 
> "The U.S. are exercising their freedom of navigation," a senior EU official said at a briefing, chiming with the U.S. line.
> 
> A U.S. Navy spokesman had said that the patrol was part of the U.S. freedom of navigation operations meant to "protect the rights, freedoms, and lawful uses of the sea and airspace guaranteed to all nations under international law".
> 
> The EU is concerned about Beijing's plans to build new islands in contested waters, the EU official said, a statement that may be welcomed by other Asian nations opposing China's claims to almost the entire South China Sea.
> 
> Vietnam, the Philippines, Taiwan, Malaysia and Brunei contest China's sovereignty over parts of one of the world's busiest sea lanes.
> 
> "Whilst not taking a position on claims, the EU is committed to a maritime order based upon the principles of international law, in particular as reflected in the United Nations Convention on the law of the Sea (UNCLOS)," an EU foreign affairs spokesman said in a statement.
> 
> The EU has been nursing relations with Beijing, hoping to attract Chinese funds to relaunch the bloc's sluggish economy and has been negotiating a bilateral investment and trade deal.
> 
> In defiance of Washington, EU governments have also decided to join the Chinese-led Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank (AIIB).
> 
> European and Asian foreign affairs ministers gather in Luxembourg next week for ASEM, a regular event that brings together all 28 EU countries and 21 Asian nations, including China, Vietnam and the Philippines.


----------



## Zsari

jhungary said:


> I don't have an embassy here, I live in my country. So basically everybody care what I have to say. You? I don't know


 
You mean you never run into anyone who tell you to "go back to your own country"? Although there are quiet a few video from Australia that says otherwise, I guess you have been the lucky one. Citizenship really matters not.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## jhungary

Zsari said:


> You mean you never run into anyone who tell you to "go back to your own country"? Although there are quiet a few video from Australia that says otherwise, I guess you have been the lucky one. Citizenship really matters not.



I don't know what you saw in Television, or what you encountered. No, not once did anyone I meet told me to go back to where I came from, maybe I am a bit different?

I was born in the US, speak perfect and fluent English with slight Mid-Western Accents, have a Caucasian wife who ironically don't speak English Fluently. Most of my friend are white people.

I think you only got called on that if you refuse to assimilate. I mean if you speak Chinese in a mall in the US, that kind of attract a lot of attention don't you think?


----------



## Zsari

jhungary said:


> I don't know what you saw in Television, or what you encountered. No, not once did anyone I meet told me to go back to where I came from, maybe I am a bit different?
> 
> I was born in the US, speak perfect and fluent English with slight Mid-Western Accents, have a Caucasian wife who ironically don't speak English Fluently. Most of my friend are white people.
> 
> I think you only got called on that if you refuse to assimilate. I mean if you speak Chinese in a mall in the US, that kind of attract a lot of attention don't you think?


 
Hmm, so you are one of those guys who would blame rape victim for dressing too provocatively? Interesting.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## jhungary

Zsari said:


> Hmm, so you are one of those guys who would blame rape victim for dressing too provocatively? Interesting.



I don't know how you get from A to B. But no.

I said you attract attention if you speak Chinese in a US mall, I never say the verbal assault is justified or deserved. I found that you had a habit to put word into people's mouth.


----------



## Penguin

Zsari said:


> Even completely submerged rock are claimed by countries as territory, or else we wouldn't have the dispute in the SCS in the first place.


The fact that that is the case does not mean such claims are valid.


----------



## Zsari

Penguin said:


> The fact that that is the case does not mean such claims are valid.


 
What is right? Can you point out where in UNCLOS does it say that reef are not territory? Pretty much every coastal state controls reef/atoll as territory. US has the Kingman Reef, Palmyra Atoll for example right in the middle of the Pacific, thousands miles away from its mainland.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Solomon2

Zsari said:


> What is right? Can you point out where in UNCLOS does it say that reef are not territory? Pretty much every coastal state controls reef/atoll as territory. US has the Kingman Reef, Palmyra Atoll for example right in the middle of the Pacific, thousands miles away from its mainland.


You were talking about submerged rocks, not reefs. I'm not sure such rocks can be claimed as territory but in any event under Article 121-3 they have no exclusive economic zone. Artificial islands do not possess the status of islands. (Article 60-8)

Palmyra Atoll is an actual island with a history of ownership by numerous parties. Kingman Reef is a navigational hazard and less than three acres of it are above water. These are not disputed territories.


----------



## Zsari

Solomon2 said:


> You were talking about submerged rocks, not reefs. I'm not sure such rocks can be claimed as territory but in any event under Article 121-3 they have no exclusive economic zone. Artificial islands do not possess the status of islands. (Article 60-8)
> 
> Palmyra Atoll is an actual island with a history of ownership by numerous parties. Kingman Reef is a navigational hazard and less than three acres of it are above water. These are not disputed territories.


 
This is going in circle. No one is claiming EEZ around reefs, well except Japan. If you trace the thread, you'll see that Penguin stated that reef cannot be claimed as territory, and I'm pointing it out that even submerged rock have been claimed by nations let alone reefs.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Zsari

Zarvan said:


> Pandjaitan may have meant for his South China Sea comments to reflect these general tendencies. His message might have been that Indonesia is neither opposed to U.S. preservation of freedom of navigation nor tolerant of Beijing’s growing assertiveness; Jakarta is merely concerned that U.S. FONOPs would risk exacerbating U.S.-China rivalry, thereby undermining regional stability and Indonesia’s national autonomy by forcing it to pick sides.


 
Lol, such a tongue twister. Usually when you use neither.. nor, it is on two opposing statements, but this one is a gem where neither nor means the same. Yes we get it, the writer want Indonesia to take the US side. But Indonesia as a major player in the region see US not just expanding in SCS which Jakarta has taken on part in, but also asserting itself into its own region further down south. And it also fully understands that China doesn't have the capability to project power into its Indonesian's water, but US does.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## dichoi

terranMarine said:


> I thought he said VN was gonna use those missiles to sink our islands



Just keeping such illegal man made islands to be useless.



Chinese-Dragon said:


> If they have enough firepower to "sink" these islands, then we have enough firepower to sink Vietnam.
> 
> *If



Southerner China is under our missiles firepower too.


----------



## ahojunk

It's good news for China.

Now, China has a good reason to further develop its islands.

Following the US lead, China can also sail close to the other claimant islands in the name of freedom of navigation. (That's probably why the Viets and Pinoys are keeping quiet.)

I sometimes wonder why the Americans are so stupid. There is nothing to be gained besides stirring up unnecessary troubles. Keeping in mind, they are already tied down in the Middle East.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## somsak

Abacin said:


> It was long planned by USA. USA will come to SCS at any excuse. Just like that it can fake an excuse to occupy Iraq for its great Mideast strategy. USA is very good geopolitical player. it plays according to its geopolitical plan to become the forever sole superpower in this planet by destroying all complete industrial systems. US will become the sole complete industrial system while all others are dependent industrial systems such as Japan. It planed to dismember Russia in 1990s and dismember China in 2000s. Putin came out and helped the survival of Russia. If Putin didn't win chechen war, Russia might have become another Soviet with more and more republics leaving Russia, just as Gorbechev lose to independent movement in Baltic republic. Bin laden helped China and gave China 10 precious years. Otherwise US would choose China first instead of mid east.
> 
> US has prepared many cards such taiwan independence, East Turkestan, Tibet independence, South Mongolia independence for dismembering China. All of them are well coordinated by CIA.
> 
> Bush was really ambitious. He wanted to establish solid US bases in from Central Asia to Mid-East. These bases will provide solid support to separation movements in Russia caucasian republics and Xinjiang and Tibet separatists. It will also cut any connections between China and Russia and allow USA to eat China or Russia one by one. If both China and Russia were finished, in this planet, USA is the only country with complete industrial systems. All other countries can only work on part of industrial jobs at the order of USA. Japan is one solid example. It only can work on areas USA allows it to work on.
> 
> That's why even Europe didn't support Bush's Mid-East strategy. This threatens Europe's industrial freedom.
> 
> SCS has become the most critical area in this world now. All major powers are happily watching China and United States having head-to-head conflicts. Europe has never enjoyed such a great freedom in foreign policy. It can openly object to US foreign policy now. Russia can take Crimea freely and start to come to Mid-East since most of US resources are dragged by China in SCS and ECS.


Your comment is one of the rare analysis on great game today. Great work.



Abacin said:


> As long as China holds on USA in SCS, more and more countries will come to help China. Europe, Russia, even India and Japan will help China publicly or stealthily. Japan gains more and more independence from USA with China-USA. All of these countries want China to drag on USA so that they can gain freedom from US control or pressures.
> 
> 
> ISIS is created by USA. Since USA cannot hold on Mid-East, USA doesn't want major powers of IRan, Russia to fill the vacuum. ISIS's job is simply to keep the mid-east from other powers for USA so that USA can shift its power to take on China. But Putin forms Russia-IRan-Syria alliance and determine to fill the vacuum. Now USA is really having headache now. It is considering to take on ISIS by ground forces to avoid Russia take-up. USA war on two fronts is really crazy. Only inexperienced president such as Obama can do it.
> 
> Obama has no business sense, no executable strategy. From domestic healthcare, debt reduction to foreign policy, nothing has a solid strategy.


Do you think Obama really "runs" the US? I noticed that no matter who the prsident of US is, FR policy never change direction. Some analyst say CFR is the direction of US fr policy no mattet who the president.


----------



## kungfugymnast

ahojunk said:


> It's good news for China.
> 
> Now, China has a good reason to further develop its islands.
> 
> Following the US lead, China can also sail close to the other claimant islands in the name of freedom of navigation. (That's probably why the Viets and Pinoys are keeping quiet.)
> 
> I sometimes wonder why the Americans are so stupid. There is nothing to be gained besides stirring up unnecessary troubles. Keeping in mind, they are already tied down in the Middle East.



Americans needed issues for public to approve the military budget. Also the Americans wanted their ally to get entire Spratlys giving contracts to America for mining petroleum. Spratlys are islands anyway.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Penguin

Zsari said:


> What is right? Can you point out where in UNCLOS does it say that reef are not territory? Pretty much every coastal state controls reef/atoll as territory. US has the Kingman Reef, Palmyra Atoll for example right in the middle of the Pacific, thousands miles away from its mainland.


art 5, 6 and 13 on establishing baseline


----------



## CN.Black

VALKRYIE said:


> It has two Gepard Frigates + 4 more coming. Genuis...


Gepard is not frigate but corvette.And the 4 sigmas you ordered are corvette, too. PLAN has 30 destroyers and 50 frigates and there are dozens of warships in construction including 2 ACs. We can sink your little boats just like killing ants. No matter how many ships you purchase, it will not work, because when you buy a corvette, we build a dozen of destroyers.


----------



## ahojunk

South China Sea ruling 'null and void', says ministry
2015-10-31 08:14 | China Daily | Editor: Yao Lan

The Foreign Ministry on Friday dismissed a ruling by the Arbitral Tribunal on the jurisdiction and admissibility of the South China Sea issue, saying it is null and void.

The ministry said in a statement released on its website that the result has no binding effect on China.

"The result of the ruling will by no means affect China's sovereignty and rights on the South China Sea," Vice-Foreign Minister Liu Zhenmin said on Friday at a media briefing.

The tribunal, established at the request of the Philippines, ruled on Thursday that it has jurisdiction over the South China Sea dispute.

China's sovereignty and rights in the South China Sea are grounded in history and protected under international laws, including the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), according to the statement.

"With regard to territorial sovereignty and maritime rights and interests, China will not accept any solution imposed on it or any unilateral resort to a third-party dispute settlement," it said.

The statement also said that the Philippines' decision to seek arbitration was "a political provocation under the cloak of law".

"The motivation behind the arbitration is not to settle disputes, but an attempt to negate China's territorial sovereignty and maritime rights and interests in the South China Sea for its own sake," Liu said.

Chen Xiangyang, an expert on South China Sea studies with the China Institute of Contemporary International Relations, noted that the decision made by the Arbitral Tribunal came just two days after a US Navy ship sailed within 12 nautical miles of Chinese islands.

"In my view, it is related, and that explains why the Philippines was vocal in its support for Washington's sailing," he said.

"The US ship and the legal battle made by the Philippines made the problem in the South China Sea even more complicated."

Chen Qinghong, another researcher with the China Institutes of Contemporary International Relations, said the issue in the South China Sea is far more complicated than something international law could solve.

"For instance, you have to take sovereignty, national emotions, public activities in history and traditional fishing grounds into consideration. So I think the best way to solve it is bilateral negotiations, in which the international law could be used."

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Zero_wing

ahojunk said:


> South China Sea ruling 'null and void', says ministry
> 2015-10-31 08:14 | China Daily | Editor: Yao Lan
> 
> The Foreign Ministry on Friday dismissed a ruling by the Arbitral Tribunal on the jurisdiction and admissibility of the South China Sea issue, saying it is null and void.
> 
> The ministry said in a statement released on its website that the result has no binding effect on China.
> 
> "The result of the ruling will by no means affect China's sovereignty and rights on the South China Sea," Vice-Foreign Minister Liu Zhenmin said on Friday at a media briefing.
> 
> The tribunal, established at the request of the Philippines, ruled on Thursday that it has jurisdiction over the South China Sea dispute.
> 
> China's sovereignty and rights in the South China Sea are grounded in history and protected under international laws, including the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), according to the statement.
> 
> "With regard to territorial sovereignty and maritime rights and interests, China will not accept any solution imposed on it or any unilateral resort to a third-party dispute settlement," it said.
> 
> The statement also said that the Philippines' decision to seek arbitration was "a political provocation under the cloak of law".
> 
> "The motivation behind the arbitration is not to settle disputes, but an attempt to negate China's territorial sovereignty and maritime rights and interests in the South China Sea for its own sake," Liu said.
> 
> Chen Xiangyang, an expert on South China Sea studies with the China Institute of Contemporary International Relations, noted that the decision made by the Arbitral Tribunal came just two days after a US Navy ship sailed within 12 nautical miles of Chinese islands.
> 
> "In my view, it is related, and that explains why the Philippines was vocal in its support for Washington's sailing," he said.
> 
> "The US ship and the legal battle made by the Philippines made the problem in the South China Sea even more complicated."
> 
> Chen Qinghong, another researcher with the China Institutes of Contemporary International Relations, said the issue in the South China Sea is far more complicated than something international law could solve.
> 
> "For instance, you have to take sovereignty, national emotions, public activities in history and traditional fishing grounds into consideration. So I think the best way to solve it is bilateral negotiations, in which the international law could be used."



Oh please its just another hissyfit from child minded china like that matters in the end china will just have to comply or risk being international condemnation even the US was not safe from that it takes time but surely it will have its toll on china.


----------



## ahojunk

Some pictures of Yongxing Island.






Lighthouse at Yongxing Island. You can see the buildings in the background.





Picture of a fighter plane on the runway at Yongxing Island.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Zsari

Penguin said:


> art 5, 6 and 13 on establishing baseline



Those articles are on territorial sea, so if reef are not territory, where would the territorial sea come from?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Penguin

Zsari said:


> Those articles are on territorial sea, so if reef are not territory, where would the territorial sea come from?


Exactly.


----------



## k_arura

BuddhaPalm said:


> We still hold the most strategic islands in the Spratlys and now we will deploy fighter jets on them for power projection.


Looking forward to it pal! The more tensions you create more your neighbors are scared and we get foothold


----------



## kungfugymnast

k_arura said:


> Looking forward to it pal! The more tensions you create more your neighbors are scared and we get foothold



You think if china pulled out of spratlys, things will go peaceful? It won't and the fight will go on. By that time, they will focus on vietnam then because it's not ally of America. Americans would prefer they closest buddy to get the spratlys.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## BuddhaPalm



Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## Zero_wing

Wow new targets for the US patriot Missiles or the Philippines and Vietnam new Spyder defense missiles system or maybe Manpad would do


----------



## BuddhaPalm

Zero_wing said:


> Wow new targets for the US patriot Missiles or the Philippines and Vietnam new Spyder defense missiles system or maybe Manpad would do


Philippines will have to be neutralized through a bombing and blockade campaign. Otherwise, you will let the USN use your territory as a staging ground. Just wait until we build our new military base on Scarborough Shoal and drop precision guided payload all over Manila. Viets are easy to deal with. Guangzhou military region PLA ground forces can overthrow their regime directly within two weeks from the start of conflict.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Haroon Syed

USA can not do anything now as J11B has come out. Check mate everyone.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## BuddhaPalm

Haroon Syed said:


> USA can not do anything now as J11B has come out. Check mate everyone.


This is just the beginning. Our J-20 enters service next year so it will also conduct strikes from our South China Sea island bases.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Haroon Syed

BuddhaPalm said:


> This is just the beginning. Our J-20 enters service next year so it will also conduct strikes from our South China Sea island bases.



I hope and I am pretty sure that J11B and J20 are far better than F22 and coming F35. Bring down an american plane to bring them to their sense. As of now they are playing with China but they don't know, the day dragon will roar it will be the last day of this world.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## +4vsgorillas-Apebane

BuddhaPalm said:


> The Americans very likely will lose their seventh and third fleets entirely as well as Guam and Kadena bases will be craters. Philippines will descend into civil war after a Chinese blockade of Manila.



Dude, he is playing you.

Dont respond to false flagger.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## 21stCentury

+4vsgorillas-Apebane said:


> Dude, he is playing you.
> 
> Dont respond to false flagger.



They are playing each other.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Beidou2020

China should use this territorial violation by the US along with Japan's return to militarism to do 5 things:

1) remove no-first-use nuclear policy.
2) remove minimal nuclear deterrence policy.
3) remove no-military-alliance policy.
4) remove no-overseas-military-bases policy.
5) increase military budget to $500 billion (5% of GDP).

1996 Taiwan crisis was the start of China's military modernisation. This current crisis should be used by CPC hardliners to justify going from a military modernisation to a full scale military buildup to accelerate China's military power.

Don't ever let a crisis go to waste.

Reactions: Like Like:
12


----------



## Sanchez

China should simply reveal the numbers of strategic nukes to the US. Once a Chinese general said that China could bomb hundreds of US cities in the second strike. There must be some substances to support the claim.

Since US attached their carriers to the nuclear policy, China shoud also attach islands/reefs in SCS and ECS to a new policy. We have plenty of tactic toys such as miniaturized neutron and hydrogen weapons to make sure that those islands/reefs are under control.

It's time to talk about an anti-US military alliance with Russia.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## terranMarine

k_arura said:


> Looking forward to it pal! The more tensions you create more your neighbors are scared and we get foothold


You mean Vietnam, Malaysia and Taiwan will allow India or US military base on their soil? If not then explain what you mean with foothold

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## k_arura

terranMarine said:


> You mean Vietnam, Malaysia and Taiwan will allow India or US military base on their soil? If not then explain what you mean with foothold



We (US) have closer relations with Taiwan than you. Vietnam may allow bases but not sure of malaysia. Phillipines Is already allowing


----------



## terranMarine

k_arura said:


> We (US) have closer relations with Taiwan than you. Vietnam may allow bases but not sure of malaysia. Phillipines Is already allowing


In other words you don't gain extra foothold.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## TaiShang

BuddhaPalm said:


>



Nice deterrent to ensure that peace and tranquility prevail in the SCS.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Zero_wing

TaiShang said:


> You are a cute Pinoy. I have only respect for the Filipino. We should further enhance bilateral trade.



Of course if you call strong arming a country compromise naturally you would want because you guys are arrogant SOB's who stilling living in the past and want to recreate world in your image like some kind of gods that and for your egos and thanks for saying i'm cute weirdo as if you did see personally.


----------



## TaiShang

Zero_wing said:


> Of course if you call strong arming a country compromise naturally you would want because you guys are arrogant SOB's who stilling living in the past and want to recreate world in your image like some kind of gods that and for your egos and thanks for saying i'm cute weirdo as if you did see personally.



I judge you by the way you talk/write, my friend. Our writing is often a reflection of our personality/of the way we think/speak.

We are a very future-oriented nation. Hence we are engaged in many long-term policies, strategies and investment. A nation should at least plan for the next five-decade, in my view, and be flexible enough to update the terms as the conditions on the ground change.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## TaiShang

Cossack25A1 said:


> Again, remember
> View attachment 268993



Did he decide to leave?

My non-professional advice is, do not take this stuff too seriously.

Real life is outside and history is happening before our eyes. Keep upbeat!

Off-topic, maybe I should dedicate some Latin proverbs as my signature to sound more professional. 



Zero_wing said:


> You called me cute what you seen me weirdo anyhow if that true that means you suck in logical thought then



You are cute with respect to the way you write, which is probably the way you talk.

I mean it. The meaner you try to get, the cuter you become. Ain't it so, @opruh ?

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## BuddhaPalm

Dangerous Escalation: Pentagon Chief Calls For Increasing Military Presence Off China's Shores

Angry Chinese Warships & Fighter Jets Swarm Over South China Sea For War Games - Morning News USA

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## F-22Raptor

The U.S. Navy plans to conduct patrols within 12 nautical miles of artificial islands in the South China Sea about twice a quarter to remind China and other countries about U.S. rights under international law, a U.S. defense official said on Monday.

"We're going to come down to about twice a quarter or a little more than that," said the official, who was not authorized to speak publicly about Navy operational plans.

"That's the right amount to make it regular but not a constant poke in the eye. It meets the intent to regularly exercise our rights under international law and remind the Chinese and others about our view," the official said.

U.S. Deputy National Security Adviser Ben Rhodes on Monday said there would be more demonstrations of the U.S. military's commitment to the right to freely navigate in the region.

"That's our interest there ... It's to demonstrate that we will uphold the principle of freedom of navigation," Rhodes told an event hosted by the Defense One media outlet.

Rhodes' comments came a week after a U.S. guided-missile destroyer sailed close to one of Beijing's man-made islands in the South China Sea last week.

China's naval commander last week told his U.S. counterpart that a minor incident could spark war in the South China Sea if the United States did not stop its "provocative acts" in the disputed waterway.

The USS Lassen's patrol was the most significant U.S. challenge yet to the 12-nautical-mile territorial limit China claims around artificial islands it has built in the Spratly Islands archipelago.

China claims most of the South China Sea, through which more than $5 trillion of world trade transits every year. Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei, the Philippines and Taiwan all have rival claims.

Rhodes said the goal in the dispute was to come to a diplomatic framework to resolve these issues.

U.S. Vice Admiral John Aquilino, deputy chief of naval operations for operations, plans and strategies, declined to comment about when the next patrols would take place.

"We do operations like that all the time around the world. That will continue for us," he told Reuters after his remarks at the same conference. "We'll just keep going."

Defense Secretary Ash Carter may visit a U.S. Navy ship during his upcoming visit to Asia, but is not expected to be on board during any Navy freedom of navigation operations, the U.S. defense official said.

U.S. Navy plans two or more patrols in South China Sea per quarter| Reuters

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Huan

I guess it means more opportunities for China to showcase her growing PLA Navy every quarter of the year during a confrontation? Yes?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## DoTell

The precedence has been set by the mighty U.S. of A. If you don't recognize another country's territory claim you can just send warships there in the name of protecting freedom of navigation. 


Well, China also doesn't recognize a lot of the territory claims by certain other countries in the SCS. We shall also patrol those territories regularly. Freedom of navigation it is. Let the fun begin

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## phancong

All China need to 100 of steel fishing boat enough to litter the area the US ship have to travel through.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## dichoi

Good move by USA navy.


----------



## gambit

DoTell said:


> The precedence has been set by the mighty U.S. of A. If you don't recognize another country's territory claim you can just send warships there in the name of protecting freedom of navigation.
> 
> 
> Well, China also doesn't recognize a lot of the territory claims by certain other countries in the SCS. We shall also patrol those territories regularly. Freedom of navigation it is. Let the fun begin


The problem is that the US have a solid history of enforcement of the freedom of navigation. China has none and given China's claiming all of the SCS, you will be alone in believing the delusion that China supports the idea of the freedom of navigation.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Abacin

gambit said:


> The problem is that the US have a solid history of enforcement of the freedom of navigation. China has none and given China's claiming all of the SCS, you will be alone in believing the delusion that China supports the idea of the freedom of navigation.


You are completely. If China denies FON in SCS, then China will be denied elsewhere worldwide. China is not so stupid to do this because SCS area is much smaller than world wide sea area.

US patrolling is more about defending the 1st island chain to contain China. Philippines and Japan are the most nervous since they are located in these island chain. If US retreat on SCS, this is a clear signal to China that US puts the space as 1st and 2nd islands as buffer zone between China and US. China will unify Taiwan by force right away.

China has larger world trades than united states. FON is core interest of China too even though projection of China power is still limited. I bet that there will more collaborations between United States and China on FON.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## gambit

Abacin said:


> You are completely. If China denies FON in SCS, then China will be denied elsewhere worldwide. China is not so stupid to do this because SCS area is much smaller than world wide sea area.


The freedom of navigation principle should not be selectively applied towards individual countries. Either all countries are allowed, or no countries are allowed.

But let us allow that what you say is true. For what reasons would anyone deny China the freedom of navigation through his EEZ ? Just because of Chinese assertion of SCS control ? Only for that reason ? Even at the expense of an economic loss ?

The FON principle was created -- and accepted -- is that often a ship's passage will take it near a country's territorial water and exclusive economic zone (EEZ). It is called 'innocent passage' with the word 'innocent' implying that the ship's passage is purely for transit, not stopping to fish or to conduct trade or military operations. So as long as the Chinese ship made it clear that its passage is innocent, no country would deny the Chinese ship its FON even if that country disapproves of what China does in the SCS.



Abacin said:


> US patrolling is more about defending the 1st island chain to contain China. Philippines and Japan are the most nervous since they are located in these island chain. If US retreat on SCS, this is a clear signal to China that US puts the space as 1st and 2nd islands as buffer zone between China and US. China will unify Taiwan by force right away.


An argument could be made that what China is doing is to contain those countries and to affect their economies.



Abacin said:


> China has larger world trades than united states. FON is core interest of China too even though projection of China power is still limited. I bet that there will more collaborations between United States and China on FON.


The collaboration will be that the USN will provide escorts for ships seeking peaceful transit thru the SCS.


----------



## dichoi

Our navy wasrship is patrolled there.


----------



## BuddhaPalm

China’s 'Little Blue Men' Take Navy’s Place in Disputes

Looks like the next escalation will be warship ramming!

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## gambit

Annoying gnats at best.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Star Wars

BuddhaPalm said:


> China’s 'Little Blue Men' Take Navy’s Place in Disputes
> 
> Looks like the next escalation will be warship ramming!



Why not start a war and be done with it ?


----------



## Sanchez

I think so too. The worse scenery would be a war...

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## gambit

Star Wars said:


> Why not start a war and be done with it ?


The Chinese is busy prepping the DF-21D and DSI before the war.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## GR!FF!N

I want to sound like a "Nerd",but Freedom of Navigation in International Water can only interfered in both countries are in War.so why such "Swarming" action on part of "Chinese Ships"??

Its true that Chinese Ships are performing similar duties against USN,VN and PHN.But what they forgot is,If China has similar Capabilities within First Island Chain,other powers can ensure China will stay inside "First Island Chain".


----------



## war&peace

This is stupidity on US navy part....Why the heck they are going so close to Chinese territory....Do they want a war or what?

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## gambit

war&peace said:


> This is stupidity on US navy part....Why the heck they are going so close to Chinese territory....Do they want a war or what?


Let me get this straight...

The Chinese is claiming an expanse of sea that was never theirs to start, then they start building artificial islands in trying to gain control of the region, but it is US who is provocative ?

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## Elkanah

We need updated pictures of the reclaimed islands been none for a month


----------



## war&peace

gambit said:


> Let me get this straight...
> 
> The Chinese is claiming an expanse of sea that was never theirs to start, then they start building artificial islands in trying to gain control of the region, but it is US who is provocative ?


But that should be solved through the dialogue...not by sending vessels...you can only intimidate smaller nations but not countries like China or Russia...relax Uncle Sam.....sometimes it is good to deal in a peaceful way....I think this concept is really foreign to you right?

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## gambit

war&peace said:


> But that should be solved through the dialogue...not by sending vessels...you can only intimidate smaller nations but not countries like China or Russia...relax Uncle Sam.....sometimes it is good deal in a peaceful way....i think this concept is really foreign to you right?


So basically, after someone punched you in the face, you would rather talk to the guy instead of fighting back ?

You are saying that anyone who provoked, not just US but a host of countries, and if there are any response, it is the responders who are at fault ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Hamartia Antidote

war&peace said:


> This is stupidity on US navy part....Why the heck they are going so close to Chinese territory....Do they want a war or what?



That's like India building a string of islands to Oman and then saying you need permission to pass.

You'd say you don't recognize these islands as legit and sail right by.

The U.S. doesn't recognize these manmade islands as legit
It's as simple as that.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## gambit

Hamartia Antidote said:


> That's like India building a string of islands to Oman and then saying you need permission to pass.


Right...And if Pakistan respond by sending ships to challenge India, we can criticize Pakistan for not using 'dialogue' to resolve the issue. 

Come to think of it, the US was in the wrong for going to war against Imperial Japan after the attack on Pearl Harbor. We should have tried 'dialogue' to get Imperial Japan to stop expansion in mainland China and stop all the atrocities against the Chinese.

When Hitler invaded Poland because the German people needed land to expand, according to Hitler's belief, Europe should have use 'dialogue' to try to solve Germany's problem.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## war&peace

gambit said:


> Right...And if Pakistan respond by sending ships to challenge India, we can criticize Pakistan for not using 'dialogue' to resolve the issue.
> 
> Come to think of it, the US was in the wrong for going to war against Imperial Japan after the attack on Pearl Harbor. We should have tried 'dialogue' to get Imperial Japan to stop expansion in mainland China and stop all the atrocities against the Chinese.
> 
> When Hitler invaded Poland because the German people needed land to expand, according to Hitler's belief, Europe should have use 'dialogue' to try to solve Germany's problem.


I am saying solve it through dialogue....not by a military conflict that can lead to a war

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## gambit

war&peace said:


> I am saying solve it through dialogue....not by a military conflict that can lead to a war


Why at US ?

A blockade is an act of war and that is without a single bullet fired. China claiming an expanse of sea as her own then trying to exert navigation control is very close to creating an economic blockade, not just to immediate Asian countries, but to any country in any part of the world that conducts commerce with Asia.

But is US who must use 'dialogue' ?

The word 'dialogue' is often used by cowards.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Hamartia Antidote

gambit said:


> Right...And if Pakistan respond by sending ships to challenge India, we can criticize Pakistan for not using 'dialogue' to resolve the issue.



What's even nuttier is Pakistan could then build a chain of islands outside the manmade Indian ones and claim India now needs permission to pass.

It turns into a worldwide pegging in the ocean contest.

The U.S. says this is all ridiculous and doesn't recognize any of it.

It we did a precedent of legitimate "pegging" would be set and the above scenario would be wide open to do.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## war&peace

gambit said:


> Why at US ?
> 
> A blockade is an act of war and that is without a single bullet fired. China claiming an expanse of sea as her own then trying to exert navigation control is very close to creating an economic blockade, not just to immediate Asian countries, but to any country in any part of the world that conducts commerce with Asia.
> 
> But is US who must use 'dialogue' ?
> 
> The word 'dialogue' is often used by cowards.


Lets say US is right on this issue....how should we solve it?


Hamartia Antidote said:


> What's even nuttier is Pakistan could then build a chain of islands outside the manmade Indian ones and claim India now needs permission to pass.
> 
> It turns into a worldwide pegging in the ocean contest.
> 
> The U.S. says this is all ridiculous and doesn't recognize any of it.


Yeah that would be a strange world with every nation building an artificial island. Pakistan does not have expansionist designs but it needs to look after its economic and strategic interests.


----------



## Hamartia Antidote

war&peace said:


> Lets say US is right on this issue....how should we solve it?
> 
> Yeah that would be a strange world with every nation building an artificial island. Pakistan does not have expansionist designs but it needs to look after its economic and strategic interests.



Now you can see why the U.S. Is doing this. To stop the potential mess that could erupt if everybody started dropping artificial islands all over the place and claiming permission to pass rights.

The U.S. said we don't recognize this artificial island crap and we are going to sail right by it without permission.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## kungfugymnast

F-22Raptor said:


> The U.S. Navy plans to conduct patrols within 12 nautical miles of artificial islands in the South China Sea about twice a quarter to remind China and other countries about U.S. rights under international law, a U.S. defense official said on Monday.
> 
> "We're going to come down to about twice a quarter or a little more than that," said the official, who was not authorized to speak publicly about Navy operational plans.
> 
> "That's the right amount to make it regular but not a constant poke in the eye. It meets the intent to regularly exercise our rights under international law and remind the Chinese and others about our view," the official said.
> 
> U.S. Deputy National Security Adviser Ben Rhodes on Monday said there would be more demonstrations of the U.S. military's commitment to the right to freely navigate in the region.
> 
> "That's our interest there ... It's to demonstrate that we will uphold the principle of freedom of navigation," Rhodes told an event hosted by the Defense One media outlet.
> 
> Rhodes' comments came a week after a U.S. guided-missile destroyer sailed close to one of Beijing's man-made islands in the South China Sea last week.
> 
> China's naval commander last week told his U.S. counterpart that a minor incident could spark war in the South China Sea if the United States did not stop its "provocative acts" in the disputed waterway.
> 
> The USS Lassen's patrol was the most significant U.S. challenge yet to the 12-nautical-mile territorial limit China claims around artificial islands it has built in the Spratly Islands archipelago.
> 
> China claims most of the South China Sea, through which more than $5 trillion of world trade transits every year. Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei, the Philippines and Taiwan all have rival claims.
> 
> Rhodes said the goal in the dispute was to come to a diplomatic framework to resolve these issues.
> 
> U.S. Vice Admiral John Aquilino, deputy chief of naval operations for operations, plans and strategies, declined to comment about when the next patrols would take place.
> 
> "We do operations like that all the time around the world. That will continue for us," he told Reuters after his remarks at the same conference. "We'll just keep going."
> 
> Defense Secretary Ash Carter may visit a U.S. Navy ship during his upcoming visit to Asia, but is not expected to be on board during any Navy freedom of navigation operations, the U.S. defense official said.
> 
> U.S. Navy plans two or more patrols in South China Sea per quarter| Reuters



America is totally far away from spratlys located at the other side of the globe. Yet the Americans send their naval fleet to SCS. Doesn't this show that America is the aggressor? Conclusion is, Americans wanted spratlys personally and to do so is through proxy. America trusted Taiwanese more than pinoys as they are less corrupt, that means America would wanted taiwan to get entire spratlys and kicked the rest out. Without China, they'll kick Vietnam out first followed by others. That only means they can choose either to let China or America to own spratlys. Vietnam should team up with China if they wanted spratlys, not India. Indian naval fleet would flee when America telling them to leave. US fleet is known to be arrogant, they would chase fighters and ships away even if they intruded into a country's territorial sea by locking into that country's fighter or vessel with trigger ready.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ChennaiDude

gambit said:


> Why at US ?
> 
> A blockade is an act of war and that is without a single bullet fired. China claiming an expanse of sea as her own then trying to exert navigation control is very close to creating an economic blockade, not just to immediate Asian countries, but to any country in any part of the world that conducts commerce with Asia.
> 
> But is US who must use 'dialogue' ?
> 
> The word 'dialogue' is often used by cowards.


Looks like the time has come to sink the "Man Made Islanad"......


----------



## Viper0011.

gambit said:


> Right...And if Pakistan respond by sending ships to challenge India, we can criticize Pakistan for not using 'dialogue' to resolve the issue.
> 
> Come to think of it, the US was in the wrong for going to war against Imperial Japan after the attack on Pearl Harbor. We should have tried 'dialogue' to get Imperial Japan to stop expansion in mainland China and stop all the atrocities against the Chinese.
> 
> When Hitler invaded Poland because the German people needed land to expand, according to Hitler's belief, Europe should have use 'dialogue' to try to solve Germany's problem.



You are wasting your time bud. This is a hardcore Chinese supporting form. Even with three concrete examples (and evidence based), I don't think anyone would care to get it. I've been through it many times. The Chinese can do all the wrong and get support from fan boys on here, the US, on the other hand, is just responding to events, as if we were the aggressors. We can't make sense to people who are so biased towards the Chinese to begin with!!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Schutz

If someone is blatantly anti western/US then just ignore them, they make zero sense, never have sources and just spout shit and get their other accounts/buddies to join in with them following the same stupid narrative.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viper0011.

war&peace said:


> I am saying solve it through dialogue....not by a military conflict that can lead to a war



There is no dialogue when your enemy sets their military posts closer to your allies, on land, air or see assets that don't belong to them. That's an act of war that has already taken place!!!! The dialogue now comes when the War is about to be over!

Did China involve the US, Japan and many others before building these islands?? NO! So why should the US do dialogue when she's just making sure the Chinese know we'll protect ourselves and our allies??

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## gambit

war&peace said:


> Lets say US is right on this issue....how should we solve it?


How about 'dialogue' ?


----------



## EAK

Viper0011. said:


> There is no dialogue when your enemy sets their military posts closer to your allies, on land, air or see assets that don't belong to them. That's an act of war that has already taken place!!!! The dialogue now comes when the War is about to be over!
> 
> Did China involve the US, Japan and many others before building these islands?? NO! So why should the US do dialogue when she's just making sure the Chinese know *we'll protect ourselves and our allies*??



Like you did in 1971.. LOL.. rants and rants...* Result*: O we r sorry we didn't found any WMD in Iraq..but ..but we killed saddam plus thousand of innocents..

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## 21 Dec 2012

EAK said:


> we r sorry we didn't found any WMD in Iraq..but ..but we killed saddam plus thousand of innocents..


Eh...who'd have thought.
Iraq Had WMDs After All | Power Line


----------



## seven7seven

Viper0011. said:


> You are wasting your time bud. This is a hardcore Chinese supporting form. Even with three concrete examples (and evidence based), I don't think anyone would care to get it. I've been through it many times. The Chinese can do all the wrong and get support from fan boys on here, the US, on the other hand, is just responding to events, as if we were the aggressors. We can't make sense to people who are so biased towards the Chinese to begin with!!



Everyone is biased in military forums. Don't pretend you're any different. You may think your view is the correct one but so does everybody else. Relax!

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## EAK

21 Dec 2012 said:


> Eh...who'd have thought.
> Iraq Had WMDs After All | Power Line


*And i Quote some from it*.." *Even more embarrassing*. There's another reason the U.S. might be embarrassed to acknowledge the incidents. In "five of six" incidents where soldiers were exposed to the agents, the "munitions appeared to have been designed in the United States, manufactured in Europe and filled in chemical agent production lines built in Iraq by Western companies."
*No, Iraq Didn't Have 'Weapons of Mass Destruction' After All*

Plus.. Added bonus for you.. 

*Tony Blair makes qualified apology for Iraq war*

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Djinn



Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## j20blackdragon

gambit said:


> Annoying gnats at best.



Every 'gnat' is a reconnaissance platform and potential off-board sensor for the ASBM.

Satellites and seafood: China keeps fishing fleet connected in disputed waters| Reuters

http://nationalinterest.org/feature/china’s-50000-secret-weapons-the-south-china-sea-10973

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Djinn



Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## Zsari

Viper0011. said:


> You are wasting your time bud. This is a hardcore Chinese supporting form. Even with three concrete examples (and evidence based), I don't think anyone would care to get it. I've been through it many times. The Chinese can do all the wrong and get support from fan boys on here, the US, on the other hand, is just responding to events, as if we were the aggressors. We can't make sense to people who are so biased towards the Chinese to begin with!!


 
A government really can't do no wrong when it comes to defending the country territorial sovereignty at least to majority of its population. I don't think the US public will behave any differently if US territory is at stake. The interesting part is that the US has no claim in the dispute but only engage itself in the name of its ally's new found claim. Perfect case of the tail wagging the dog.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## gambit

Zsari said:


> A government really can't do no wrong when it comes to defending the country territorial sovereignty at least to majority of its population. I don't think the US public will behave any differently if US territory is at stake. *The interesting part is that the US has no claim in the dispute but only engage itself in the name of its ally's new found claim. Perfect case of the tail wagging the dog.*


The US regularly sent FON challenges to anyone, friend or ally or enemy.


----------



## Zsari

gambit said:


> The US regularly sent FON challenges to anyone, friend or ally or enemy.


 
FON is merely a justification, we all know that.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## TaiShang

Ｗｅ　ｗｉｌｌ　ｃｏｎｔｉｎｕｅ　ｔｏ　ｆｉｇｈｔ　ｆｏｒ　ｆｒｅｅｄｏｍ　ｏｆ　ｎａｖｉｇａｔｉｏｎ．　Ｔｏ　ｔｈａｔ　ｅｎｄ，　ｗｅ　ｗｉｌｌ　ｂｕｉｌｄ　ｆｕｒｔｈｅｒ　ｃａｐａｂｉｌｉｔｉｅｓ．


Ｗｅ　ｗｉｌｌ　ｅｎｓｕｒｅ　ｔｈａｔ　ｗｅ　ａｒｅ　ａｂｌｅ　ｔｏ　ｐｒｏｔｅｃｔ　ｆｒｅｅｄｏｍ　ｏｆ　ｎａｖｉｇａｔｉｏｎ　ｎｏ　ｌｅｓｓ　ｔｈａｎ　ｔｈｅ　ＵＳ　ｉｓ　ａｂｌｅ　ｔｏ．

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## kungfugymnast

ChennaiDude said:


> Looks like the time has come to sink the "Man Made Islanad"......



That man made island was built upon an actual island that belongs to Chinese. They could build whatever they like on that island, their rights. Chinese been build bases and islands within their claimed islands, not on other countries' islands.

So what's your problem? Your country India is far from other side of globe, your military got nothing to do in spratlys. If Americans defeated Chinese in spratlys, they would kick Vietnam out too followed by your Indian naval fleet. Americans are known to acquire lock with fingers ready on firing trigger to chase off weaker fighter jets, ships. Your Rana, Vikram ships would flee like chicken under such situation like the few countries that had such encounter. Americans wanted spratlys for themselves, not sharing with your people.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## gambit

Zsari said:


> FON is merely a justification, we all know that.


And a valid one.

The South China Sea is an important world energy trade route - Today in Energy - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

Not just energy but other products ranging from textile to durable goods to electronics, the SCS is a vital trade route for the world. The US will not allow China to control the SCS. Like it or not, the world would rather have US ensure FON in the SCS than take on faith that China will do the same.


----------



## ChennaiDude

kungfugymnast said:


> That man made island was built upon an actual island that belongs to Chinese. They could build whatever they like on that island, their rights. Chinese been build bases and islands within their claimed islands, not on other countries' islands.
> 
> So what's your problem? Your country India is far from other side of globe, your military got nothing to do in spratlys. If Americans defeated Chinese in spratlys, they would kick Vietnam out too followed by your Indian naval fleet. Americans are known to acquire lock with fingers ready on firing trigger to chase off weaker fighter jets, ships. Your Rana, Vikram ships would flee like chicken under such situation like the few countries that had such encounter. Americans wanted spratlys for themselves, not sharing with your people.


Lets say for example...If Saudi Arabia were to extend their land in the Suez canal and combines both Egypt to SA...Then you do understand that you are technically saying that it is absolutely fine...No


----------



## Zsari

gambit said:


> And a valid one.
> 
> The South China Sea is an important world energy trade route - Today in Energy - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)
> 
> Not just energy but other products ranging from textile to durable goods to electronics, the SCS is a vital trade route for the world. The US will not allow China to control the SCS. Like it or not, the world would rather have US ensure FON in the SCS than take on faith that China will do the same.


 
A poor excuse at best as China have no intention of restricting FON in the South China Sea as it has been stated repeatedly.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## anon45

Zsari said:


> A poor excuse at best as China have no intention of restricting FON in the South China Sea as it has been stated repeatedly.



It has been stated repeatedly that China will, under the commonly understood definition of FoN, which includes military ships.


----------



## Zsari

anon45 said:


> It has been stated repeatedly that China will, under the commonly understood definition of FoN, which includes military ships.


 
But China doesn't recognize conducting military activities as navigation, nor is it necessary for FON to sail within 12nm of Chinese controlled islands/reefs. Been through this part before many times.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Penguin

TaiShang said:


> Ｗｅ　ｗｉｌｌ　ｃｏｎｔｉｎｕｅ　ｔｏ　ｆｉｇｈｔ　ｆｏｒ　ｆｒｅｅｄｏｍ　ｏｆ　ｎａｖｉｇａｔｉｏｎ．　Ｔｏ　ｔｈａｔ　ｅｎｄ，　ｗｅ　ｗｉｌｌ　ｂｕｉｌｄ　ｆｕｒｔｈｅｒ　ｃａｐａｂｉｌｉｔｉｅｓ．
> 
> 
> Ｗｅ　ｗｉｌｌ　ｅｎｓｕｒｅ　ｔｈａｔ　ｗｅ　ａｒｅ　ａｂｌｅ　ｔｏ　ｐｒｏｔｅｃｔ　ｆｒｅｅｄｏｍ　ｏｆ　ｎａｖｉｇａｔｉｏｎ　ｎｏ　ｌｅｓｓ　ｔｈａｎ　ｔｈｅ　ＵＳ　ｉｓ　ａｂｌｅ　ｔｏ．


That's fine. In your own (not disputed) waters.


----------



## Zsari

Too much inconsistence. Was it FONOPS or innocent passage? Stories coming out of Washington from different sources are contradicting with each other.

_Innocent Passage: Did the U.S. Just Fumble Its South China Sea Strategy?_
_http://www.nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/innocent-passage-did-the-us-just-fumble-its-south-china-sea-14253_

_Euan Graham__ 
November 4, 2015_

_The difference between freedom of navigation operations (FONOPs) and warships transiting under 'innocent passage' sounds arcane and legalistic. But this wonkish distinction is now central to understanding the nature of the U.S. Navy’s activities in the South China Sea last week and going forward — with a critical bearing on how they are perceived in China and beyond._
_USNI News__, Defense News and __Graham Webster__ all recently noted that the USS Lassen was undertaking innocent passage when it sailed past Subi Reef on 27 October. This surprising revelation has not been officially confirmed but is understood to have been widely corroborated by sources in the U.S. Navy, Department of Defense and Capitol Hill.
..._

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Penguin

> *What Did The Navy Do In the South China Sea?*
> By Adam Klein, Mira Rapp-Hooper
> Wednesday, November 4, 2015, 11:21 AM
> After the U.S.S._ Lassen’s_ freedom of navigation operation (FONOP) in the Spratly Islands last week, we wrote that the _Lassen_ and the accompanying P-8 Poseidon aircraft appeared to have conducted normal military operations inside 12 nm around Subi Reef. That was important because normal military operations are _not_ “innocent passage,” a demonstrably nonthreatening mode of transiting another nation’s territorial seas. By conducting normal operations inconsistent with innocent passage, the United States appeared to have demonstrated that it does not recognize a territorial sea around Subi—and, by extension, China’s other artificial islands built on “low-tide elevations.” DOD, however, did not specifically confirm that the _Lassen_ had conducted normal operations, and kept mum on the precise legal rationale for the operation.
> New reporting on the _Lassen _operation suggests that the FONOP might have been consistent with innocent passage after all. It appears that the _Lassen_ may have transited within 12 nautical miles in accordance with innocent passage, while the accompanying surveillance aircraft (which cannot operate consistent with innocent passage) remained outside of the 12 nm zone. Additional reporting suggests that the _Lassen’s_ fire control radar was turned off and that it did not launch or recover helicopters inside of 12nm—both activities that would have been obviously inconsistent with innocent passage.
> These new details don’t conclusively establish that the_ Lassen’s_ transit was innocent passage, as some authors now suggest. As this helpful Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative graphic shows, there are several ways a vessel can transit within 12 nm to challenge the assertion of a territorial sea. Surveillance is one such demonstrative activity, as is the use of fire control radars or helicopters. If the_ Lassen _loitered within 12 nautical miles, however, or failed to move in a direct and expeditious manner through the zone, this would have been inconsistent with innocent passage too. Some authors, including Julian Ku writing for _Lawfare_, have suggested that the U.S. Navy has confirmed an innocent passage transit. We are not sure that these presumably-unauthorized disclosures amount to an official confirmation.
> This lack of clarity is nonetheless a problem for U.S. foreign policy and for international law. We agree with Ku that, if allowed to harden, the widespread belief that the _Lassen _conducted innocent passage would be extremely damaging; indeed, it could make the operation worse than having done nothing at all.
> Let’s assume that the _Lassen _did conduct unannounced innocent passage. On the modestly positive side, such an operation would have repudiated China’s view that innocent passage through the territorial sea requires advance notice and permission from the coastal state. But that modest benefit would be greatly outweighed by what the operation would have implicitly _conceded_: If the _Lassen _did indeed conduct innocent passage, China could assert that the operation demonstrated the United States’ acquiescence in China’s claim to a territorial sea around its artificial islands, as Ku observes. (Under UNCLOS, “low-tide elevations” like Subi Reef are not entitled to a territorial sea, even if an artificial island is built on top of them.) We pointed this potential concession out as a downside of what we termed “Option 1” in our first post on this issue.
> This is a problem both for U.S. maritime policy and for international law. The policy concerns are not hard to imagine: As James Kraska of the Naval War College has explained, there are “hundreds of rocks, reefs, skerries and cays in the South China Sea.” “_f the international community recognizes the maximum theoretical rights generated by each of them, the oceans and airspace will come to look like Swiss cheese and be practically closed off to free navigation and overflight.” Recognizing territorial seas around artificial islands would undermine freedom of navigation and enhance China’s control over the region’s vital airspace and sea lanes.
> The widespread perception that the Lassen conducted an innocent-passage transit would also be damaging for the future development of international maritime law. Customary international law is formed by the accretion of state practice motivated by a sense of legal obligation. (This sense of legal obligation is known in the trade as opinio juris.) Each instance of state practice accompanied by opinio juris is a brick in the wall of customary international law. And an instance involving the lone global superpower is an especially big brick: If the all-powerful United States is bound to obey a legal rule, isn’t everybody?
> In our first post on this issue, we wrote that “the Pentagon should, and … presumably intends to, clearly explain the legal view underpinning whatever action it takes.” DOD hasn’t done so yet, and the result has been widespread confusion. The Pentagon needs to clarify what happened at Subi Reef—and, more importantly, what message it intended to send._


_What Did The Navy Do In the South China Sea? - Lawfare

Very useful: FONOPS Primer | Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative














_

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Zsari

Penguin said:


> _What Did The Navy Do In the South China Sea? - Lawfare
> 
> Very useful: FONOPS Primer | Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _


 
So what exactly did happen? Was the "new report" correct? Or nobody has the full story?


----------



## Zero_wing

Penguin said:


> _What Did The Navy Do In the South China Sea? - Lawfare
> 
> Very useful: FONOPS Primer | Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _



Thanks skipper


----------



## cnleio

"亮剑深蓝，筑牢海疆，不辱使命，为国争光" photos of Chinese working in SCS

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## cnleio

"亮剑深蓝，筑牢海疆，不辱使命，为国争光" photos of Chinese working in SCS

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## TaiShang

cnleio said:


> "亮剑深蓝，筑牢海疆，不辱使命，为国争光" photos of Chinese working in SCS
> 
> View attachment 269611
> View attachment 269612
> View attachment 269613
> View attachment 269615
> View attachment 269616
> View attachment 269617
> View attachment 269618
> View attachment 269619





At the end of the day, that's what really matters. China will incrementally acquire the capability to better enforce freedom of navigation maritime safety according to its own interpretation of international law.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Penguin

Working???


----------



## Daniel808

Penguin said:


> Working???




Working in Paradise Islands.
How Lucky they are

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## TaiShang

Penguin said:


> Working???



That's why our island genesis program is super peaceful.


----------



## cnleio

Penguin said:


> Working???


After 8x hours working ... leisure activity.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## gambit

Zsari said:


> A poor excuse at best as China have no intention of restricting FON in the South China Sea as it has been stated repeatedly.


Then let US waste our fuel and time.


----------



## F-22Raptor

ABOARD THE USS THEODORE ROOSEVELT—U.S. Defense Secretary Ash Carter sent a blunt message to China on Thursday by joining the American aircraft carrier USS Theodore Roosevelt on patrol in the sensitive South China Sea: that the U.S. won’t accept Chinese domination of the contested region.

Mr. Carter appeared on the Theodore Roosevelt as it navigated some 200 miles from the southern tip of the disputed Spratly Islands. He sought to balance the American desire to maintain an open dialogue with the Chinese with the projection of American power in the region.

“The American approach to the security structure for Asia is an inclusive one, we’re not trying to make divisions,” Mr. Carter said, standing beside an F-18 jet fighter in the hangar of the carrier. “We want China to be part of the security system of Asia and not to stand apart from it.”

The carrier patrol caps a critical phase in South China Sea relations, security analysts believe, during which the dispute has evolved into a direct contest between China and the U.S., relegating the Southeast Asian countries that ring the waters to the status of nervous bystanders.

“Great powers’ actions can only be restrained by the balancing efforts of other great powers,” said Zhang Baohui, a political scientist at Lingnan University in Hong Kong, arguing that China’s growing naval assertiveness has now drawn the inevitable U.S. military response.

As the U.S. and China square off over the region’s future, any hopes that smaller states or even the 10-member Association of South East Asian Nations can influence events are now a “fantasy,” Mr. Zhang said. He pointed to this week’s high-level defense talks hosted by the Association of Southeast Asian nations, which ended in gridlock after the U.S. and China took opposing views on how to manage the South China Sea confrontation.

Asked about the symbolism of the Roosevelt and the man it was named after, Mr. Carter said he welcomed the military-to-military relationship with China. “TR’s motto was to speak softly but carry a big stick, but the ‘speak softly’ means talk to other people, see what we can do to reach agreement.”

He noted the stability that has existed in the region for decades, adding: “It would be a shame if people here ruined that.”

During the defense summit Wednesday, Mr. Carter told reporters that the carrier maneuvers were “a symbol of our commitment to the rebalance,” referring to the Obama administration’s hallmark policy of raising America’s profile in Asia. He said the right to freedom of navigation in international waters was a tried-and-tested concept that the U.S. would uphold in the South China Sea and elsewhere.

China claims most of the South China Sea, which Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines and Vietnam also claim in part. For years, those nations have tried to engage China in a multilateral diplomatic process to ease tensions, but their efforts have led nowhere, said Ian Storey, an expert at the Institute of Southeast Asian Studies in Singapore.

“Asean and China talk about reducing tensions, but this is divorced from reality when you look at what China and the U.S. are doing,” Mr. Storey said of the escalation seen in recent weeks. “The Asean conflict management process,” which centers on developing a code of conduct to regulate the claimants’ behavior, “is increasingly irrelevant.”

Mr. Carter reached the Theodore Roosevelt via a flight from Malaysia. His visit follows a long-awaited freedom-of-navigation operation conducted by a U.S. warship last week around Subi Reef, one of seven artificial islets China has been constructing in the South China Sea to assert its territorial claims. Washington doesn't recognize Chinese sovereignty over the waters there, citing international law that says countries cannot use man-made features to claim territorial seas.

The Theodore Roosevelt isn't expected to sail past one of these islets, though U.S. officials have said more freedom-of-navigation operations will follow regularly. The carrier is conducting “routine operations while transiting the South China Sea”, according to the Defense Department, having left Singapore several days ago.

China condemned last week’s patrol by the destroyer USS Lassen as a provocation and responded with clear signals of its own. It has deployed jet fighters to Woody Island, a Chinese outpost in the Paracel Islands—another South China Sea island chain—according to a state media report. This has put the disputed Spratly islands within striking distance of Chinese aircraft. The Chinese military also conducted naval and aerial drills off southern China over the weekend.

Separately, a Chinese attack submarine was reported to have tailed the American aircraft carrier USS Ronald Reagan during exercises off Japan last week, according to U.S. officials cited in various media reports. The U.S. Pacific Command didn't respond to questions seeking confirmation of the encounter.

A Chinese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman said she wasn’t aware of the situation and had no comment. A Japanese Defense Ministry said he was unaware of the incident.

While seemingly relegated to the sidelines of the South China Sea struggle, most Southeast Asian countries are relieved to see the U.S. stepping up and challenging China, said Richard Javad Heydarian, a regional security specialist at De La Salle University in Manila, after months of China “single-handedly sabotaging the whole security architecture in Asia” through its island-building program.

Malaysian Defense Minister Hishammuddin Hussein joined Mr. Carter on board the Theodore Roosevelt on Thursday. Earlier in the week, Mr. Hishammuddin said Malaysia welcomed last week’s freedom-of-navigation operation, but said the U.S. and China both have a duty to avoid further escalation.

“Concern over China’s massive reclamation activities and emerging threats to freedom of navigation in the South China Sea is almost universal,” said Mr. Heydarian. “Smaller countries like the Philippines and Vietnam, and middle powers like Japan and Australia and India—all of them have been supportive of ongoing efforts to rein in China’s unilateral overhaul of the Asian seascape.”

Aboard U.S. Ship in South China Sea, Defense Secretary Invokes ‘Big Stick’ - WSJ

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Jlaw

Is it just me or others feel the same way. Too much talking on the US side. Attack the Chinese island or ship. Political sabre rattling and shit talking by old men who will run at the first sight of confrontation is so boring--and so old man like.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Aepsilons

Political message. Read between the words , my hyper nationalist friends .

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## pher

How big is that stick? today's US is just like a joker who could only bully samll countries like iraq and afghnistan, even that was the result of begging the whole world put arms sanction on them for at least 2 years. Does it dare to touch North korea or Iran? no way forever.

If US want war, bring up to us rather than just talking big, and we will make sure to expose your true color of worthless paper tiger.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Jlaw

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Political message. Read between the words , my hyper nationalist friends .


lol, the kettle calling the pot black my ultra nationalist Japanese friend?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## anon45

Zsari said:


> But China doesn't recognize conducting military activities as navigation, nor is it necessary for FON to sail within 12nm of Chinese controlled islands/reefs. Been through this part before many times.


yes we have, and we know what China believes, hence my statement. Just because China (and no one else)doesn't recognize it doesn't mean military warships aren't ships, and maritime law regarding ships applies to ALL ships. 

The whole point is these Artificial islands built on top of LTE's are not entitled to 12 nm territorial zones, but 500m safety zones. This is in agreement with maritime law, which is supported the world over.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Aepsilons

Jlaw said:


> lol, the kettle calling the pot black my ultra nationalist Japanese friend?



Lol, it's good to see the kettle and the pot being so kind to each other, my dear Huaren friend.


----------



## Aepsilons

BuddhaPalm said:


> First we stalk their carriers with our submarines.
> 
> Chinese sub tracked U.S. aircraft carrier | Politics - WSBT.com
> 
> Then we declare nuclear strike on Guam and Kadena is imminent.
> 
> South China Sea incident: China tells US a small issue could lead to war | Business Standard Mobile Website
> 
> Now they admit South China Sea belongs to China so they try to save face with DefSec dancing & singing to entertain the sailors.
> 
> Innocent Passage: Did the U.S. Just Fumble Its South China Sea Strategy? | The National Interest Blog



Next will we see Chinese ships patrolling San Diego harbor?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## anon45

Jlaw said:


> Is it just me or others feel the same way. Too much talking on the US side. Attack the Chinese island or ship. Political sabre rattling and shit talking by old men who will run at the first sight of confrontation is so boring--and so old man like.



We don't care about the islands, but the water around them. We are proving that the water is open to everyone, and we will continue proving it.

Don't like it? Attack us. Go ahead, we are sailing around what you view, against all law, as your national territory. So come on! Do something! We are waiting and sailing still in your inviolate national territory! Where is your resolve!




pher said:


> How big is that stick? today's US is just like a joker who could only bully samll countries like iraq and afghnistan, even that was the result of begging the whole world put arms sanction on them for at least 2 years. Does it dare to touch North korea or Iran? no way forever.
> 
> If US want war, bring up to us rather than just talking big, and we will make sure to expose your true color of worthless paper tiger.



lol your country had its chance and it did nothing. Put up or shut up.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Jlaw

anon45 said:


> We don't care about the islands, but the water around them. We are proving that the water is open to everyone, and we will continue proving it.
> 
> Don't like it? Attack us. Go ahead, we are sailing around what you view, against all law, as your national territory. So come on! Do something! We are waiting and sailing still in your inviolate national territory! Where is your resolve!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lol your country had its chance and it did nothing. Put up or shut up.



Why would China attack? You started the patrol. It's up to you guys to do something about China militarizing and building artificial islands. The onus is on US to fire the first shot.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viva_Viet

Wow, more fun in SCS (east Vn sea)....Mr. Xi just promise 5 year support plan to VN and hope VN will help CN to brake US's containment, and what Mr.Obama will offer Vn next ??


----------



## Aepsilons

BuddhaPalm said:


> Our semi-submerged mother ship for Zubr hovercraft can cover the distance. Of course, we will start by crushing our geographically closer enemies including brutal occupation and labor camps. West Coast USA comes later.



Lol, who are your geographically closer enemies, pray may I ask.



Viva_Viet said:


> Wow, more fun in SCS (east Vn sea)....Mr. Xi just promise 5 year support plan to VN and hope VN will help CN to brake US's containment, and what Mr.Obama will offer Vn next ??



A cookie and a banh mi with extra dichon.


----------



## Viva_Viet

Nihonjin1051 said:


> A cookie and a banh mi with extra dichon.


Our US partner just shift their bussiness from CN to VN, I should request an 1 month trip to US if they want me to watch out our Cnese partner for them


----------



## Aepsilons

Viva_Viet said:


> Our US partner just shift their bussiness from CN to VN, I should request an 1 month trip to US if they want me to watch out our Cnese partner for them



Clever clever and sly you are my Vietnamese friend. Dangerous !!

You are like Ninja.....

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## pher

anon45 said:


> We don't care about the islands, but the water around them. We are proving that the water is open to everyone, and we will continue proving it.
> 
> Don't like it? Attack us. Go ahead, we are sailing around what you view, against all law, as your national territory. So come on! Do something! We are waiting and sailing still in your inviolate national territory! Where is your resolve!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lol your country had its chance and it did nothing. Put up or shut up.


what chance? of course we put up, otherwise how could your carpy boat runing off with tails between like a headless fly in the sea? what a humiliation to America!!! yet you people still have the brazen to brag there? On the contray, US dared to do nothing when our warship sailed 12 miles within the coast off Alaska. This is really a shame. where is your mighty navy when we contructed those islands and we will contiune to do so. do something to stop us if you really got guts or just shut up.

we are doer and you just a big talker, see the diffirence? sending your junk ships to pass by our unfinished island then get chased off like a dog is the best you delusional big talker can do, what a pity.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Zsari

anon45 said:


> yes we have, and we know what China believes, hence my statement. Just because China (and no one else)doesn't recognize it doesn't mean military warships aren't ships, and maritime law regarding ships applies to ALL ships.
> 
> The whole point is these Artificial islands built on top of LTE's are not entitled to 12 nm territorial zones, but 500m safety zones. This is in agreement with maritime law, which is supported the world over.


 
If US does follow protocols of innocent passage when within 12nm of Chinese island as the new report suggest, then it is in fact recognizing Chinese territorial sovereignty there. Its funny how inconsistent the reports have been.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cnleio

11.02 China 052C & 054A task fleet within 12 sea miles of U.S territory 

MAYPORT, Fla. (Nov. 3, 2015) The Chinese Luyang II-class destroyer Jinan (DDG 152),Jiangkai II-class frigate Yiyang (FFG 548) and Fuchi-class oiler Qiandaohu (AOR 886) arrives into Naval Station Mayport as part of a routine goodwill port visit. Foreign navy ships routinely conduct port visits to Mayport. Engagements like this demonstrate a continuous navy-to-navy bilateral relationship between our two countries.























MAYPORT, Fla. (Nov. 3, 2015) Senior Captain Wang, commanding officer of the Chinese Luyang II-class destroyer Jinan (DDG 152) shakes hands with Cmdr. Thomas Ulmer, commanding officer of the amphibious dock landing ship USS Fort McHenry (LSD 43) at the conclusion of the ship tour as part of a routine goodwill port visit. Foreign navy ships routinely conduct port visits to Mayport. Engagements like this demonstrate a continuous navy-to-navy bilateral relationship between our two countries.










MAYPORT, Fla. (Nov. 3, 2015) Rear Adm. Mary Jackson, commander, Navy Region Southeast, and Senior Captain Wang, commanding officer of the Chinese Luyang II-class destroyer Jinan (DDG 152) listen during a ceremony during a routine goodwill port visit. Foreign navy ships routinely conduct port visits to Mayport. Engagements like this demonstrate a continuous navy-to-navy bilateral relationship between our two countries.


----------



## mike2000 is back

BuddhaPalm said:


> Our semi-submerged mother ship for Zubr hovercraft can cover the distance. Of course, we will start by crushing our geographically closer enemies including brutal occupation and labor camps. West Coast USA comes later.



You sound more like the Chinese version of *@Risingshinningsuperpower *guy who likes making fun of India by claiming such childish stuffs. lol You seem to be making fun of the Chinese sarcastically. lol



cnleio said:


> 11.02 China 052C & 054A task fleet within 12 sea miles of U.S territory
> 
> MAYPORT, Fla. (Nov. 3, 2015) The Chinese Luyang II-class destroyer Jinan (DDG 152),Jiangkai II-class frigate Yiyang (FFG 548) and Fuchi-class oiler Qiandaohu (AOR 886) arrives into Naval Station Mayport as part of a routine goodwill port visit. Foreign navy ships routinely conduct port visits to Mayport. Engagements like this demonstrate a continuous navy-to-navy bilateral relationship between our two countries.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MAYPORT, Fla. (Nov. 3, 2015) Senior Captain Wang, commanding officer of the Chinese Luyang II-class destroyer Jinan (DDG 152) shakes hands with Cmdr. Thomas Ulmer, commanding officer of the amphibious dock landing ship USS Fort McHenry (LSD 43) at the conclusion of the ship tour as part of a routine goodwill port visit. Foreign navy ships routinely conduct port visits to Mayport. Engagements like this demonstrate a continuous navy-to-navy bilateral relationship between our two countries.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MAYPORT, Fla. (Nov. 3, 2015) Rear Adm. Mary Jackson, commander, Navy Region Southeast, and Senior Captain Wang, commanding officer of the Chinese Luyang II-class destroyer Jinan (DDG 152) listen during a ceremony during a routine goodwill port visit. Foreign navy ships routinely conduct port visits to Mayport. Engagements like this demonstrate a continuous navy-to-navy bilateral relationship between our two countries.



To be honest many Navies visit other countries/make port calls in foriegn countries. Its normal nowadays, even Iran,Egypt,Algeria, India, Brazil,and many others all indulge in such visits. Its totally different from a country having a permamnent naval presence/military bases/constantly patrolling a region. You can't compare the two.


----------



## Zero_wing

BuddhaPalm said:


> Our military superiority in South China Sea is absolute. Submarines have already surrounded the USN fleet. Let them strut and boast a bit just like MacArthur before the trap door shuts!



As people should remember MacArthur was stop by Truman so shut your trap high fin second your so called military superiority if that what you call it is because people don't wanna fight unlike you people wanna live so dont mistaken peoples love for peace for cowardness but since you and you fellow arrogant dbags are pushing maybe you get your wish



Cossack25A1 said:


> That is why BuddhaPalm is not fit to lead a nation - he would make Kim Jong-Un look like sissy and an amateur, as he (BuddhaPalm) WOULD immediately attack without any regards to possible consequences if his comments are used as basis for such scenario.



Because his high just like the rest of the imperial armchair warriors in the forum they think we war is like call of duty or battlefield they can respond after being shot or something but i am curious on what drugs palm is using 



BuddhaPalm said:


> Our semi-submerged mother ship for Zubr hovercraft can cover the distance. Of course, we will start by crushing our geographically closer enemies including brutal occupation and labor camps. West Coast USA comes later.



Wow i think you forgot about America 7th fleet you have destroy them first but if you manage you still have to kill off the US Air Forces in the Pacific which is very unlikely to happen because they crush you guys before you can fire face it you're playing to much of those poorly made patriotic games man but its funny how your sick mind works


----------



## 21stCentury

Zero_wing said:


> As people should remember MacArthur was stop by Truman so shut your trap high fin second your so called military superiority if that what you call it is because people don't wanna fight unlike you people wanna live so dont mistaken peoples love for peace for cowardness but since you and you fellow arrogant dbags are pushing maybe you get your wish
> 
> 
> 
> Because his high just like the rest of the imperial armchair warriors in the forum they think we war is like call of duty or battlefield they can respond after being shot or something but i am curious on what drugs palm is using
> 
> 
> 
> Wow i think you forgot about America 7th fleet you have destroy them first but if you manage you still have to kill off the US Air Forces in the Pacific which is very unlikely to happen because they crush you guys before you can fire face it you're playing to much of those poorly made patriotic games man but its funny how your sick mind works



pinoy please.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## anon45

pher said:


> what chance? of course we put up, otherwise how could your carpy boat runing off with tails between like a headless fly in the sea? what a humiliation to America!!! yet you people still have the brazen to brag there? On the contray, US dared to do nothing when our warship sailed 12 miles within the coast off Alaska. This is really a shame. where is your mighty navy when we contructed those islands and we will contiune to do so. do something to stop us if you really got guts or just shut up.
> 
> we are doer and you just a big talker, see the diffirence? sending your junk ships to pass by our unfinished island then get chased off like a dog is the best you delusional big talker can do, what a pity.



Hahaha global maritime laws are different from yours, we don't have an issue with your warships sailing quickly through our territorial waters, that's fine with us, that's innocent passage, and its fine with UNCLOS. But under mighty Chinese law it is a great offense! and yet your ships weren't even conducting innocent passage!  they were collecting sensor data while passing through, and yet your ships just stood by buzzing like flies as we leisurely sailed collecting data, and will continue to do so!

US Navy to Conduct Patrols of China’s Artificial Islands Twice Per Quarter

Again we are waiting! Back up your mouth with action and fire ze missiles!


----------



## anon45

Zsari said:


> If US does follow protocols of innocent passage when within 12nm of Chinese island as the new report suggest, then it is in fact recognizing Chinese territorial sovereignty there. Its funny how inconsistent the reports have been.



True and that is the speaker's fault that they don't know the difference between innocent passage and FoNOPS, or failed to articulate it.

it wasn't innocent passage in anycase, sensors were on collecting recon data


----------



## TaiShang

Nonetheless, it is refreshing to see that China's islands development scheme continues unhindered. Practices can be forced to a change once the required physical assets are there.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Zero_wing

21stCentury said:


> pinoy please.



Oh please imperial can your racist its filipino


----------



## Penguin

Perhaps y'all can calm down and be a little more 'professional' in your tone of 'voice' or simply more cordial?
Let's take an example:



> *'Hope to see you again': China warship to U.S. destroyer after South China Sea patrol*
> *the Lassen had had about 50 "interactions" with Chinese military ships and aircraft since May while on patrol in the South and East China Seas, something he described as routine.
> *
> The Chinese destroyer shadowed the Lassen for 10 days before and after its Oct. 27 patrol near the artificial islands, said Francis. The Lassen got to within six to seven nautical miles from the nearest Chinese land formation, he added.
> But not all U.S.-Chinese naval interactions are tense, especially when things are slow on the high seas.
> "A few weeks ago we were talking to one of the ships that was accompanying us, a Chinese vessel ... (We) picked up the phone and just talked to him like, 'Hey, what are you guys doing this Saturday? Oh, we got pizza and wings. What are you guys eating? Oh, we're doing this. Hey, we're planning for Halloween as well'." The intent, Francis said, is "to show them ... that we're normal sailors, just like them, have families, just like them."
> The Chinese sailors, speaking in English, responded by talking about where they were from, their families and places they have visited, Francis said.
> Eventually, the Chinese destroyer that had followed the Lassen on its mission past the artificial islands peeled away.
> "They were very cordial the entire time ... even before and after the Spratly islands transit," Francis said.
> "When they left us they said, 'Hey, we're not going to be with you anymore. Wish you a pleasant voyage. Hope to see you again'." As for Francis and his crew of 300 sailors, they were unfazed by the intense media coverage of one of the most highly anticipated U.S. naval patrols in years, although Francis said his mother, having seen the news, did call to ask whether he was actually in China.
> "It's another day in the South China Sea. All of it is professional," he said.


'Hope to see you again': China warship to U.S. destroyer after South China Sea patrol - Yahoo News

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Globenim

U.S. armchair warriors and their lapdog fanmaids are really getting all flustered up about their 'undefeatable' army watching incapable like ducks while China is reinforcing its territory ignoring all their rambling and political cries

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Penguin

Globenim said:


> U.S. armchair warriors and their lapdog fanmaids are really getting all flustered up about their 'undefeatable' army watching incapable like ducks while China is reinforcing its territory ignoring all their rambling and political cries


So, when can we look forward to a serious reply from you? I'm mean, rather than the substanceless drivel above?


----------



## oproh

Dumb americans thinking that their patrols can stop China from enlarging the islands makes me laugh.

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## TaiShang

oproh said:


> Dumb americans thinking that their patrols can stop China from enlarging the islands makes me laugh.



We come for peace. Will ensure that peace stays in SCS.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

TaiShang said:


> We come for peace. Will ensure that peace stays in SCS.



China needs to take responsibility in the SCS by setting up the ADIZ as soon as possible.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## TaiShang

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> China needs to take responsibility in the SCS by setting up the ADIZ as soon as possible.



Indeed. SCS ADIZ would be another fundamental contribution to freedom of navigation by closely monitoring transportation activity.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## biendong

European MPs support Vietnam’s view on East Sea dispute
_VietNamNet Bridge - Speaking during a business trip in Vietnam, the European parliamentary delegation said it fully supported the view of Vietnam in the East Sea issue, based on the principles of maintaining peace, adhering to international law, and maintaining equality among nations.






The European parliamentary delegation led by Mr. Werner Langen (third from right) visited Vietnam from November 4-6.
_
The announcement was made by the European Parliament’s Delegation for relations with Southeast Asia and ASEAN countries (DASE) after the visit to Vietnam.

Regarding the tense situation in the East Sea, DASE Chairman Werner Langen, head of the delegation, reaffirmed the EU’s stance that all concerned parties should seek peaceful solutions which are relevant to international law, particularly the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS).

Langen said that the East Sea is not only the issue of Vietnam but of many other member countries of ASEAN and the EU supports resolving the problem through peaceful negotiations and means.

He noted that trade between the EU and Vietnam and other countries in the region depends on the freedom of navigation in the East Sea; therefore it is necessary to maintain safety and freedom of navigation in the East Sea.

Langen insisted that the European Parliament supports the view of Vietnam. The Statement of G7 Summit last year made it clear that it should support peaceful solutions. This can be considered one of the important steps in promoting cooperation between the EU and Vietnam and other countries in the ASEAN region.

Mr. Richard Ashworth, a member of the delegation, added that the European Parliament was keeping track of the East Sea situation with great interest.

He said that in the meetings with Vietnamese officials, the European parliamentary delegation learned the approaches of Vietnam to the East Sea issue and they will report back to the European Parliament on Vietnam's position. The delegation fully supported Vietnam's view, based on three basic principles:

Firstly, disputes in the East Sea must be resolved by negotiation and peaceful measures. 

Secondly, these measures must be based on international law. 

Thirdly, international law must be applied to all countries, big or small, weak or strong.

He said that the EU hopes resolving the conflict in the East Sea will create a precedent for resolving similar disputes in the world and not leave the consequences to which the parties do not want. 

The EU also expects to receive stronger support from other countries including ASEAN and the countries concerned in the region to solve this problem, said Ashworth.

Ashworth added that the European Union attaches great importance to the resolution of the current conflict in the East Sea. European MPs will contact and put pressure on their governments to put the East Sea issue to the G7 Summit.

Referring to the US’s sending of patrol ships into the area of 12 nautical miles around the artificial islands built illegally by China in the East Sea, Ashworth said if the patrol was conducted in accordance with international law, then the EU fully supported it.

"We also fully support if the patrols set out the principles of international law enforcement in the region," Ashworth said.

*

Tran Cham*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## k_arura

terranMarine said:


> In other words you don't gain extra foothold.


We get to middle-finger China! Its strategy has been laid bare Reconciling China’s PLAN: Strategic Intervention, Tactical Engagement | The Diplomat

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## terranMarine

k_arura said:


> We get to middle-finger China! Its strategy has been laid bare Reconciling China’s PLAN: Strategic Intervention, Tactical Engagement | The Diplomat



What does that proof? First you claim US is gonna gain EXTRA foothold and when i ask you which country is gonna allow US military to station on their soil you said Vietnam and Taiwan. Do you know how stupid that sound? A Communist country asking US military to screw the local women? We know how that turned out for the Pinoys the moment the Yankees set their feet back on Pinoy land. As for Taiwan you obviously have zero clue what you are talking about when you said the relation with US is closer than i think. In case you have not noticed Taiwan never condemned Mainland for the SCS land reclamation plus Taiwan also supports the 9 dash line. If the US-TW relation is that close, why don't the Americans sell the Taiwanese F-35 or nuclear subs but have no issues selling those jets to South Korea and Japan

The reclamation and militarizations of these islands are here to stay and what is the US gonna do about it? The middle finger just isn't enough for the Pinoys and the Viets.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## k_arura

terranMarine said:


> What does that proof? First you claim US is gonna gain EXTRA foothold and when i ask you which country is gonna allow US military to station on their soil you said Vietnam and Taiwan. Do you know how stupid that sound? A Communist country asking US military to screw the local women? We know how that turned out for the Pinoys the moment the Yankees set their feet back on Pinoy land. As for Taiwan you obviously have zero clue what you are talking about when you said the relation with US is closer than i think. In case you have not noticed Taiwan never condemned Mainland for the SCS land reclamation plus Taiwan also supports the 9 dash line. If the US-TW relation is that close, why don't the Americans sell the Taiwanese F-35 or nuclear subs but have no issues selling those jets to South Korea and Japan
> 
> The reclamation and militarizations of these islands are here to stay and what is the US gonna do about it? The middle finger just isn't enough for the Pinoys and the Viets.



Where a firecracker will do why use an atom bomb as the cliche goes. We haven't sold those to TW so as not to rile up China. YET! Keeping it in our arsenal of things to rattle China as need be. If we nuclear arm TW, you could do ZILCH (just like you did your with CLOSE Pal (terrorist) Pakistan). 

While I am at it, let me add that in case of nuclear exchange between India and Pak, India WILL see to it that a few of them from Indian side land in China so it gets a taste of its own medicine of using snakes as pets for biting others.

[Looking fwd to being banned for telling the truth . Again]


----------



## terranMarine

k_arura said:


> Where a firecracker will do why use an atom bomb as the cliche goes. We haven't sold those to TW so as not to rile up China. YET! Keeping it in our arsenal of things to rattle China as need be. If we nuclear arm TW, you could do ZILCH (just like you did your with CLOSE Pal (terrorist) Pakistan).
> 
> While I am at it, let me add that in case of nuclear exchange between India and Pak, India WILL see to it that a few of them from Indian side land in China so it gets a taste of its own medicine of using snakes as pets for biting others.
> 
> [Looking fwd to being banned for telling the truth . Again]



Why are you dodging my questions and giving us some lousy excuse?  I tell you why because i slapped you with a dose of reality check. Just watch the development in SCS for the coming months and see if Vietnam or Taiwan will invite American troops to station on their soil. There's also no point talking about IFs, just look at your pathetic homeland Tejas program. Even the Americans label the Tejas as a flying coffin.  Why don't you tell those skeptical Americans IF the Tejas is inducted it will rule the sky?

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## TaiShang

On the SCS issue and other territorial sovereignty issues, Taiwan and the Mainland are one and the same.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## bobsm

*Stop Opposing China's Monroe Doctrine and Roosevelt Corollary*
Posted: 11/04/2015 2:17 pm EST Updated: 11/04/2015 2:59 pm EST

The United States should cease opposing China's version of the Monroe Doctrine and the Roosevelt Corollary.

All we have to fear is fear itself.

Years ago, I attended a meeting with a high level Chinese official in the offices of the then Chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. The official explained that for more than a century the United States had grown bigger while China had become smaller. Now it was China's turn to grow bigger.

There was no pretense that China's expansion would further "Manifest Destiny,' offshore balancing, regional stability, or any other strategic model. It would represent the adolescent gratification of power for its own sake. China would redraw maps to correspond to its territorial ambitions.

Thus, China is now projecting maritime power over the South and East China seas in disputes with Vietnam Japan, the Philippines, and other Asian nations. It is building a Blue Water Navy and strengthening its armed forces to establish a sphere of influence in the Pacific and East Asia.

The United States is alarmed. We recently sailed a United States navy guided missile destroyer within the 12-nautical-mile territorial limits of Subi and Mischief Reefs in the South China Sea claimed by China.

President Barack Obama has announced a United States pivot from the Middle East to East Asia.
But is China doing anything more reckless than imitating our venerated Monroe Doctrine and the Roosevelt Corollary?

On December 2, 1823, President James Monroe's seventh annual message to Congress proclaimed "that the American continents, by the free and independent condition which they have assumed and maintain, are henceforth not to be considered as subjects for future colonization by any European powers...With the Governments who have declared their independence and maintain it, and whose independence we have, on great consideration and on just principles, acknowledged, we could not view any interposition for the purpose of oppressing them, or controlling in any other manner their destiny, by any European power in any other light than as the manifestation of an unfriendly disposition toward the United States...It is impossible that the allied powers should extend their political system to any portion of either continent without endangering our peace and happiness...."

President Monroe, however, had no writ to speak for the entire North and South American continents. He imply asserted in the manner of a papal encyclical that the United States would not tolerate within the Western Hemisphere any political dispensation in any country encouraged by a European power that conflicted with the principles of the United States Constitution.

President Theodore Roosevelt's 1905 Monroe Doctrine Corollary declared that the United States was deputed by the heavens to exercise an international police power to intervene anywhere in the Western Hemisphere to prevent any blemish on our conception of civilized society:

"Chronic wrongdoing, or an impotence which results in a general loosening of the ties of civilized society, may in America, as elsewhere, ultimately require intervention by some civilized nation, and in the Western Hemisphere the adherence of the United States to the Monroe Doctrine may force the United States, however reluctantly, in flagrant cases of such wrongdoing or impotence to exercise an international police power."

The Corollary coincided with President Roosevelt's scored earth campaign against Filipinos fighting for independence. His tactics in the Philippines included the burnings of entire villages, torture and concentration camps. He sermonized that "by war alone can we acquire the virile qualities necessary to win in the stern strife of national life," i.e., savagery is better than civilization.

Invoking the Monroe Doctrine, the United States initiated the Mexican-American War ostensibly to prevent Great Britain or France from imposing a monarchy on Mexico. Summoning the Roosevelt Corollary, the United States dispatched troops into Caribbean and Central American countries on approximately 20 occasions in the first three decades of the twentieth century, most frequently in the Dominican Republic, Haiti, Nicaragua, and Mexico to install or insure friendly or obedient governments and to preempt European interventions. In 1961, the United States attempted the overthrow of Communist Cuba's Fidel Castro by force and violence in the Bay of Pigs fiasco. And in 1965, the United States sent troops to the Dominican Republic to insure a government friendly to our interests.

In none of these cases, was the United States responding to an actual or imminent attack in legitimate self-defense under the Constitution or international law.

What is China doing in the South China and East China Seas that the United States has not already done and more in the Western Hemisphere?

Double standards at all times and in all places evoke strife or bitterness. Exemplary is Animal Farm's creed: "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."

Moreover, China's military adventurism towards Vietnam, Japan, and the Philippines is no threat to United States sovereignty. The three Asian nations are more than capable of self-defense. Vietnam smartly rebuffed China's 1979 invasion. China has never defeated Japan in war. And a Chinese occupation of the Philippines would spawn endless Filipino uprisings at huge expense to China.

To repeat, we have nothing to fear from China's Monroe Doctrine and the Roosevelt Corollary than fear itself. All the money and forces we are wasting on President Obama's pivot to Asia should be redirected to protecting the United States from an actual or imminent attack at home.

Stop Opposing China's Monroe Doctrine and Roosevelt Corollary | Bruce Fein

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## killmkys



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## biendong

Two U.S. B-52 strategic bombers flew near artificial Chinese islands in the South China Sea this week and were contacted by Chinese ground controllers but continued their mission undeterred, the Pentagon said on Thursday.

China claims most of the South China Sea, through which more than $5 trillion in global trade passes every year, and the United States has said it will continue conducting patrols to assure freedom of navigation. Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei, the Philippines and Taiwan have rival claims in the region.

In the latest mission, which occurred overnight on Nov. 8-9, the bombers flew "in the area" of the Spratly Islands but did not come within the 12-nautical-mile zones that China claims as territory around islands it has built in the chain, said Commander Bill Urban, a Pentagon spokesman.

"The B-52s were on a routine mission in the SCS (South China Sea)," taking off from and returning to Guam, Urban said.

Chinese ground controllers contacted the bombers but the aircraft continued their mission unabated, Urban said.

"We conduct B-52 flights in international air space in that part of the world all the time," Pentagon spokesman Peter Cook told a news briefing earlier on Thursday.

Last month, a U.S. warship challenged territorial limits around one of China's man-made islands in the Spratly archipelago with a so-called freedom-of-navigation patrol, the most significant U.S. challenge yet to territorial limits China claims around its new islands.

U.S. and Chinese warships and aircraft regularly communicate when operating near each other in Asian waters, U.S. military officials say.

U.S. bomber flew near Chinese-built island in South China Sea: Pentagon| Reuters

Source: US B-52 bombers fly near Chinese made islands in South China Sea

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TaiShang

bobsm said:


> *Stop Opposing China's Monroe Doctrine and Roosevelt Corollary*
> Posted: 11/04/2015 2:17 pm EST Updated: 11/04/2015 2:59 pm EST
> 
> The United States should cease opposing China's version of the Monroe Doctrine and the Roosevelt Corollary.
> 
> All we have to fear is fear itself.
> 
> Years ago, I attended a meeting with a high level Chinese official in the offices of the then Chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. The official explained that for more than a century the United States had grown bigger while China had become smaller. Now it was China's turn to grow bigger.
> 
> There was no pretense that China's expansion would further "Manifest Destiny,' offshore balancing, regional stability, or any other strategic model. It would represent the adolescent gratification of power for its own sake. China would redraw maps to correspond to its territorial ambitions.
> 
> Thus, China is now projecting maritime power over the South and East China seas in disputes with Vietnam Japan, the Philippines, and other Asian nations. It is building a Blue Water Navy and strengthening its armed forces to establish a sphere of influence in the Pacific and East Asia.
> 
> The United States is alarmed. We recently sailed a United States navy guided missile destroyer within the 12-nautical-mile territorial limits of Subi and Mischief Reefs in the South China Sea claimed by China.
> 
> President Barack Obama has announced a United States pivot from the Middle East to East Asia.
> But is China doing anything more reckless than imitating our venerated Monroe Doctrine and the Roosevelt Corollary?
> 
> On December 2, 1823, President James Monroe's seventh annual message to Congress proclaimed "that the American continents, by the free and independent condition which they have assumed and maintain, are henceforth not to be considered as subjects for future colonization by any European powers...With the Governments who have declared their independence and maintain it, and whose independence we have, on great consideration and on just principles, acknowledged, we could not view any interposition for the purpose of oppressing them, or controlling in any other manner their destiny, by any European power in any other light than as the manifestation of an unfriendly disposition toward the United States...It is impossible that the allied powers should extend their political system to any portion of either continent without endangering our peace and happiness...."
> 
> President Monroe, however, had no writ to speak for the entire North and South American continents. He imply asserted in the manner of a papal encyclical that the United States would not tolerate within the Western Hemisphere any political dispensation in any country encouraged by a European power that conflicted with the principles of the United States Constitution.
> 
> President Theodore Roosevelt's 1905 Monroe Doctrine Corollary declared that the United States was deputed by the heavens to exercise an international police power to intervene anywhere in the Western Hemisphere to prevent any blemish on our conception of civilized society:
> 
> "Chronic wrongdoing, or an impotence which results in a general loosening of the ties of civilized society, may in America, as elsewhere, ultimately require intervention by some civilized nation, and in the Western Hemisphere the adherence of the United States to the Monroe Doctrine may force the United States, however reluctantly, in flagrant cases of such wrongdoing or impotence to exercise an international police power."
> 
> The Corollary coincided with President Roosevelt's scored earth campaign against Filipinos fighting for independence. His tactics in the Philippines included the burnings of entire villages, torture and concentration camps. He sermonized that "by war alone can we acquire the virile qualities necessary to win in the stern strife of national life," i.e., savagery is better than civilization.
> 
> Invoking the Monroe Doctrine, the United States initiated the Mexican-American War ostensibly to prevent Great Britain or France from imposing a monarchy on Mexico. Summoning the Roosevelt Corollary, the United States dispatched troops into Caribbean and Central American countries on approximately 20 occasions in the first three decades of the twentieth century, most frequently in the Dominican Republic, Haiti, Nicaragua, and Mexico to install or insure friendly or obedient governments and to preempt European interventions. In 1961, the United States attempted the overthrow of Communist Cuba's Fidel Castro by force and violence in the Bay of Pigs fiasco. And in 1965, the United States sent troops to the Dominican Republic to insure a government friendly to our interests.
> 
> In none of these cases, was the United States responding to an actual or imminent attack in legitimate self-defense under the Constitution or international law.
> 
> What is China doing in the South China and East China Seas that the United States has not already done and more in the Western Hemisphere?
> 
> Double standards at all times and in all places evoke strife or bitterness. Exemplary is Animal Farm's creed: "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."
> 
> Moreover, China's military adventurism towards Vietnam, Japan, and the Philippines is no threat to United States sovereignty. The three Asian nations are more than capable of self-defense. Vietnam smartly rebuffed China's 1979 invasion. China has never defeated Japan in war. And a Chinese occupation of the Philippines would spawn endless Filipino uprisings at huge expense to China.
> 
> To repeat, we have nothing to fear from China's Monroe Doctrine and the Roosevelt Corollary than fear itself. All the money and forces we are wasting on President Obama's pivot to Asia should be redirected to protecting the United States from an actual or imminent attack at home.
> 
> Stop Opposing China's Monroe Doctrine and Roosevelt Corollary | Bruce Fein



That's why the only way to overcome the problem of double-standard is not whining or back-stepping, but more aggressively building an inherently peaceful but potentially destructive national power.

When supported by enough fire power, all the moral concerns will be secondary. In almost all cases, morality is a reflection of absolute physical power.

That's basically why China's build up and construction programs shall continue NO MATTER WHAT until the desired national outcomes are achieved.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## ahojunk

The distance from Subi to Thitu Island is 27 km.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## biendong



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## kungfugymnast

ChennaiDude said:


> Lets say for example...If Saudi Arabia were to extend their land in the Suez canal and combines both Egypt to SA...Then you do understand that you are technically saying that it is absolutely fine...No



Suez canal is owned by Egypt. If Saudi and Egypt merged into 1 country yet they are willing to fill up the canal forever, it is up to them. Others can make noise but no rights to forbid the owner. But filling up the canal would kill off their port and canal passage toll business.


----------



## kurutoga

TaiShang said:


> That's why the only way to overcome the problem of double-standard is not whining or back-stepping, but more aggressively building an inherently peaceful but potentially destructive national power.
> 
> When supported by enough fire power, all the moral concerns will be secondary. In almost all cases, morality is a reflection of absolute physical power.
> 
> That's basically why China's build up and construction programs shall continue NO MATTER WHAT until the desired national outcomes are achieved.



Yes, China does not pursue its version of Monroe Doctrine, otherwise Vietnam will face political and economy destruction until they have a pro-China government.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## dichoi

kurutoga said:


> Yes, China does not pursue its version of Monroe Doctrine, otherwise Vietnam will face political and economy destruction until they have a pro-China government.



It is dream of China.


----------



## kurutoga

dichoi said:


> It is dream of China.



Xi did not show any interests in doing so. US successfully weakened Mexico and South America, and fought off any European power. I think China's current government is more interested in Middle Asia. South/South East Asia is still too small.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ahojunk

Picture of Meiji (Mischief) Island, the close-up of the airstrip.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## ahojunk

Three pictures purportedly taken by South Korean satellite but unfortunately they are not so clear. Anyway, here they are .....





Yongxing (Woody) Island.





Meiji (Mischief) Island.





Nanxun (Gaven) Island.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## dichoi

*MANILA:* *US President Barack Obama on Wednesday demanded China end artificial island building in the hotly contested South China Sea, upping the pressure on Beijing at a regional leaders' summit. *The annual Asia-Pacific Economic Co-operation (APEC) gathering is meant to forge unity on trade among 21 Pacific rim economies that group three billion people.


But the territorial row over the strategically vital South China Sea, as well as terrorism concerns following last week's deadly Paris rampage, have dominated the build-up to this year's meeting in the Philippines.
*China has repeatedly insisted its disputes with its Asian neighbours over the sea, home to some of the world's most important shipping routes, should not be on the APEC agenda.*


*But just hours before the two-day summit started, Obama voiced concerns over giant land reclamation works by China that have created new islands close to the Philippines.*


"We discussed the impact of China's land reclamation and construction activities on regional stability," Obama told reporters after meeting Philippine President Benigno Aquino.


"We agree on the need for bold steps to lower tensions, including pledging to halt further reclamation, new construction, and militarisation of disputed areas in the South China Sea."


On Tuesday, Obama also announced more than $250 million in maritime aid to its Southeast Asian allies -- including a warship for the Philippines.


*China claims nearly all of the South China Sea, even waters approaching the coasts of its Asian neighbors.


APEC members the Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan have rival claims to parts of the sea, which is believed to sit atop vast oil and gas resources.*


Chinese state media hit out Wednesday at what it described as US meddling over the sea.
"Washington's recent provocative moves have infringed upon Beijing's maritime sovereignty and security in the South China Sea," the China Daily wrote in a commentary.


"But China is not one to give in when it comes to its territorial, maritime and security interests, and the US is unlikely to succeed in its designs by instigating ASEAN countries to challenge China's maritime rights in the South China Sea."


In a speech at a business forum ahead of the summit, Chinese President Xi Jinping did not directly mention of the South China Sea.


But he did call on Pacific nations to "resolve our differences through dialogue and consultation".
"We must focus on development and spare no effort to foster an environment of peace conducive to development and never allow anything to disrupt the development process," he said.


Obama's speech to the business forum focused mostly on the need for the world to tackle global warming, insisting fighting climate change would not hurt the economy.


"We have to break out of the mindset that when we are doing something about climate change, we slow growth," Obama said.


While in Manila, Obama is also trying to promote a giant free trade pact signed last month that groups 12 Pacific nations but excludes China.


Obama was due to meet with the leaders of the other Trade-Pacific Partnership nations on the sidelines of APEC on Wednesday. But in his speech, Xi urged Asian economies to sign up to its own free trade agreement, warning rival pacts risked hurting the regional economies.


"With various new regional free trade arrangements cropping up there have been worries about the potential of fragmentation," Xi said.


"We therefore need to accelerate the realisation of FTAAP and take regional economic integration forward."
The FTAAP is the Free Trade Area of the Asia-Pacific, which China launched as APEC host last year. However it is only in the preliminary planning stage. Obama's trip to Asia is the ninth of his presidency so far, and he had hoped it would showcase US focus on the region and not just on the Middle East or Europe.
But once again his pivot has been blunted by events elsewhere, with Paris mourning the loss of at least 129 people in a rampage claimed by the Islamic State (IS) group.


A draft of the APEC declaration due to be released on Thursday and seen by AFP condemned the Paris attacks, describing them as "atrocities that demand a united voice from the global community".


Philippine authorities, which had already deployed more than 20,000 security forces for the summit, said security had been ratcheted up even higher because of the Paris attacks.


Source: Obama demands halt to South China Sea island building


----------



## TaiShang

ahojunk said:


> Picture of Meiji (Mischief) Island, the close-up of the airstrip.
> 
> View attachment 272989
> 
> 
> View attachment 272990



What a beautiful demonstration of development and inclusive growth of China.

In the final analysis, it is to ensure national security, scientific development, and regional/global safety.

Island genesis and development continues at China speed.

Obama is not to be taken seriously until they vacate Hawaii.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Viet

TaiShang said:


> That's why the only way to overcome the problem of double-standard is not whining or back-stepping, but more aggressively building an inherently peaceful but potentially destructive national power.
> 
> When supported by enough fire power, all the moral concerns will be secondary. In almost all cases, morality is a reflection of absolute physical power.
> 
> That's basically why China's build up and construction programs shall continue NO MATTER WHAT until the desired national outcomes are achieved.


Hmmmm ...it's weird, why suddenly do I have the feeling Chinese clown like you and other cheerleaders have begun to run amok?


----------



## TaiShang

Viet said:


> Hmmmm ...it's weird, why suddenly do I have the feeling Chinese clown like you and other cheerleaders have begun to run amok?



In fact we are pretty much busy with the planned constructions. Lots of things to accomplish, bro. 

For the feeling you are now discovering inside, refer to a psychologist, please. Could be chronic.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Viet

bobsm said:


> *Stop Opposing China's Monroe Doctrine and Roosevelt Corollary*
> Posted: 11/04/2015 2:17 pm EST Updated: 11/04/2015 2:59 pm EST
> 
> The United States should cease opposing China's version of the Monroe Doctrine and the Roosevelt Corollary.
> 
> All we have to fear is fear itself.
> 
> Years ago, I attended a meeting with a high level Chinese official in the offices of the then Chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. The official explained that for more than a century the United States had grown bigger while China had become smaller. Now it was China's turn to grow bigger.
> 
> There was no pretense that China's expansion would further "Manifest Destiny,' offshore balancing, regional stability, or any other strategic model. It would represent the adolescent gratification of power for its own sake. China would redraw maps to correspond to its territorial ambitions.
> 
> Thus, China is now projecting maritime power over the South and East China seas in disputes with Vietnam Japan, the Philippines, and other Asian nations. It is building a Blue Water Navy and strengthening its armed forces to establish a sphere of influence in the Pacific and East Asia.
> 
> The United States is alarmed. We recently sailed a United States navy guided missile destroyer within the 12-nautical-mile territorial limits of Subi and Mischief Reefs in the South China Sea claimed by China.
> 
> President Barack Obama has announced a United States pivot from the Middle East to East Asia.
> But is China doing anything more reckless than imitating our venerated Monroe Doctrine and the Roosevelt Corollary?
> 
> On December 2, 1823, President James Monroe's seventh annual message to Congress proclaimed "that the American continents, by the free and independent condition which they have assumed and maintain, are henceforth not to be considered as subjects for future colonization by any European powers...With the Governments who have declared their independence and maintain it, and whose independence we have, on great consideration and on just principles, acknowledged, we could not view any interposition for the purpose of oppressing them, or controlling in any other manner their destiny, by any European power in any other light than as the manifestation of an unfriendly disposition toward the United States...It is impossible that the allied powers should extend their political system to any portion of either continent without endangering our peace and happiness...."
> 
> President Monroe, however, had no writ to speak for the entire North and South American continents. He imply asserted in the manner of a papal encyclical that the United States would not tolerate within the Western Hemisphere any political dispensation in any country encouraged by a European power that conflicted with the principles of the United States Constitution.
> 
> President Theodore Roosevelt's 1905 Monroe Doctrine Corollary declared that the United States was deputed by the heavens to exercise an international police power to intervene anywhere in the Western Hemisphere to prevent any blemish on our conception of civilized society:
> 
> "Chronic wrongdoing, or an impotence which results in a general loosening of the ties of civilized society, may in America, as elsewhere, ultimately require intervention by some civilized nation, and in the Western Hemisphere the adherence of the United States to the Monroe Doctrine may force the United States, however reluctantly, in flagrant cases of such wrongdoing or impotence to exercise an international police power."
> 
> The Corollary coincided with President Roosevelt's scored earth campaign against Filipinos fighting for independence. His tactics in the Philippines included the burnings of entire villages, torture and concentration camps. He sermonized that "by war alone can we acquire the virile qualities necessary to win in the stern strife of national life," i.e., savagery is better than civilization.
> 
> Invoking the Monroe Doctrine, the United States initiated the Mexican-American War ostensibly to prevent Great Britain or France from imposing a monarchy on Mexico. Summoning the Roosevelt Corollary, the United States dispatched troops into Caribbean and Central American countries on approximately 20 occasions in the first three decades of the twentieth century, most frequently in the Dominican Republic, Haiti, Nicaragua, and Mexico to install or insure friendly or obedient governments and to preempt European interventions. In 1961, the United States attempted the overthrow of Communist Cuba's Fidel Castro by force and violence in the Bay of Pigs fiasco. And in 1965, the United States sent troops to the Dominican Republic to insure a government friendly to our interests.
> 
> In none of these cases, was the United States responding to an actual or imminent attack in legitimate self-defense under the Constitution or international law.
> 
> What is China doing in the South China and East China Seas that the United States has not already done and more in the Western Hemisphere?
> 
> Double standards at all times and in all places evoke strife or bitterness. Exemplary is Animal Farm's creed: "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."
> 
> Moreover, China's military adventurism towards Vietnam, Japan, and the Philippines is no threat to United States sovereignty. The three Asian nations are more than capable of self-defense. Vietnam smartly rebuffed China's 1979 invasion. China has never defeated Japan in war. And a Chinese occupation of the Philippines would spawn endless Filipino uprisings at huge expense to China.
> 
> To repeat, we have nothing to fear from China's Monroe Doctrine and the Roosevelt Corollary than fear itself. All the money and forces we are wasting on President Obama's pivot to Asia should be redirected to protecting the United States from an actual or imminent attack at home.
> 
> Stop Opposing China's Monroe Doctrine and Roosevelt Corollary | Bruce Fein


How much money has the author received from CCP? I hope Xi Jinping listens to him and soon starts the war.


----------



## TaiShang

Viet said:


> How much money has the author received from CCP? I hope Xi Jinping listens to him and soon starts the war.



Tons of money, bro. Directly from President Xi's account. 

China won't start war, bro. It is not strategically viable at the point. Monroe is long dead and Latin America is pretty much up for grabs for China. 

We are doing lots of business there. We are the greatest trade partner. Canada included.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Viet

TaiShang, Do what you have to do, while we do what is necessary. But pls stop spewing insults toward us and telling bullshit as China and Chinese people are peaceloving angels. Because you have never been.


----------



## TaiShang

Viet said:


> TaiShang, Do what you have to do, while we do what is necessary. But pls stop spewing insults toward us and telling bullshit as China and Chinese people are peaceloving angels. Because you have never been.



Where is the insult toward you? Do you feel insulted when I argued that China is the largest trading partner in Latin America? But that's hard data. 

China is definitely the most benign developing great power. That's historically proven from a close analysis of China's foreign policy conceptualization.

And you hit the nail, we will do what we have to do. No body is immune from historical constraints, bro. We humankind make history through material development. And history in turn shapes us in some way.

China is the best student of historical materialism and dialectic.

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## bobsm

Viet said:


> *How much money has the author received from CCP?* I hope Xi Jinping listens to him and soon starts the war.



For that, you'll have to write to the author.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## killmkys

CHI GUA REEF

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## cnleio

4x 3,000m runways built by China in SCS

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## VNAF

Viet said:


> TaiShang, Do what you have to do, while we do what is necessary. But pls stop spewing insults toward us and telling bullshit as China and Chinese people are peaceloving angels. Because you have never been.


Don't worry, brother. 


Truong Sa Lon island (Big Spratly )











Đá Tây island ( West London reef )






Sinh Ton island ( Sincowe island )

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

TaiShang said:


> Where is the insult toward you? Do you feel insulted when I argued that China is the largest trading partner in Latin America? But that's hard data.
> 
> China is definitely the most benign developing great power. That's historically proven from a close analysis of China's foreign policy conceptualization.
> 
> And you hit the nail, we will do what we have to do. No body is immune from historical constraints, bro. We humankind make history through material development. And history in turn shapes us in some way.
> 
> China is the best student of historical materialism and dialectic.


It's not the single post you mention, but rather your general expression: China is great, while others are inferior. China can this can that, and that's good for everyone and for the world. But I told you previously, you can do what you want to do, while we do what we have to do. And now with our domestic built dredgers.


----------



## bobsm

*China to continue island building*

Xinhua, November 23, 2015

China will continue to build military and civilian facilities on its artificial islands in the South China Sea, it said yesterday, as it warned other countries not to "deliberately stir up trouble" there.

"Building and maintaining necessary military facilities, this is what is required for China's national defense and for the protection of those islands and reefs," Vice Foreign Minister Liu Zhenmin told a news conference in Kuala Lumpur.

China planned to "expand and upgrade" civilian facilities on the islands "to better serve commercial ships, fishermen, to help distressed vessels and provide more public services," Liu said, adding that China rejects the notion it is militarizing the South China Sea. He said China had mostly built civilian facilities there.

Liu was speaking at a press briefing on the sidelines of the 27th ASEAN Summit and Related Summits in Malaysia.

The briefing was held hours after Chinese Premier Li Keqiang, who attended the summits, raised a five-pronged proposal to uphold and promote peace and stability in the South China Sea and called on countries outside the region to refrain from taking actions that may cause tension in the area.

Liu said the construction of facilities, mainly civilian ones, on seven of its islands and reefs is essential to improve the quality of life and work for personnel on the islands and to provide high-quality public services that will also benefit surrounding countries.

He said 42 of China's islands and reefs in the region are being illegally occupied by its three neighboring countries.

"To build necessary military defense facilities on islands far away from our mainland is both required by the national defense need and the need to safeguard our islands and reefs," Liu said. "They should not be mistaken for the militarization of the South China Sea.

"Some major countries outside the region are exercising their so-called freedom of navigation by sending airplanes and warships while strengthening military cooperation with countries in the region. Is that a trend of militarization?" he said, urging heightened alert against it. "Don't make troubles on purpose," he warned.

China voiced "strong discontent" over the recent intrusion of a US warship in waters near China's Nansha Islands. Calling such an act "political provocation," Liu said that when exercising freedom of navigation in and above the South China Sea, countries concerned need to respect the sovereignty and security of countries along the coast.

More than 100,000 ships from many countries around the world sail safely and freely through the South China Sea each year. China has held that disputes should be addressed by the countries directly concerned through friendly consultation and peaceful negotiation, with peace and stability in the South China Sea being jointly maintained by China and ASEAN countries.

China to continue island building- China.org.cn

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## VNAF

Vietnam to continue reclaim Spratly island.
Truong Sa Lon island ( Big Spratly island)

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## dichoi

UkroTurk said:


> *Sibir’ or Xībólìyà? The future of Siberia between Russia and China*
> 
> 
> _Are we therefore approaching a new Cold War between the Sino-Russian bloc and the West? Not necessarily, since the Amur issue remains unsolved, and its importance is even increasing as a consequence of Russia’s demographic crisis. In a 2007 report from the Hudson Institute entitled “The Great Siberian War of 2030,” the Senior Fellow Laurent Murawiec outlined the risk of a military conflict between a depopulated Russia and an overpopulated China for control of the enormous land mass east of the Urals. By that time, with a population of just 5 million inhabitants always more isolated from Moscow, Siberia would have already been included into China’s policy of development for the “Great West” (Xībù Dàkāifā)._
> 
> _The eventuality of a war between Russia and China for control of Siberia and its natural resources is not at all unlikely. The Sleeping Land, which covers three-quarters of Russia’s territory, is currently home to only a quarter of the country’s population: 38 million people. Around 6 million Siberians live on the Russian side of the border with China, an insignificant figure compared to the 90 million Chinese living on the other side. The demographic imbalance between the two sides of the border is so marked that even Russia’s President Vladimir Putin once had to admit: “Unless we make a serious effort, the Russians in the border regions will have to speak Chinese, Japanese and Korean in a few decades.”_
> 
> *WINDOW ON HEARTLAND: Sibir’ or Xībólìyà? The future of Siberia between Russia and China*



China can't tauch a foots of Russian.


----------



## TaiShang

VNAF said:


> Don't worry, brother.
> 
> 
> Truong Sa Lon island (Big Spratly )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Đá Tây island ( West London reef )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sinh Ton island ( Sincowe island )



Looks like Vietnam continues island build up while it accuses China of one. 



Viet said:


> It's not the single post you mention, but rather your general expression: China is great, while others are inferior. China can this can that, and that's good for everyone and for the world. But I told you previously, you can do what you want to do, while we do what we have to do. And now with our domestic built dredgers.



China believes in inclusive development. Just as we studied and learned from other East Asian experience in termsa of economic governance. Nothing is wrong with that. 

Our newly build islands are just as great as your newly built islands. There might be differences in scale and spped, but, if you look impartially, national power and capability cannot be equal. 

I still argue that China's development is good not only for the region, but also for the entire world. Especially from the 2008 financial crisis, China has contributed to the world economy than any other country.

China's islands are for defense, safety, development, and scientific purposes.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Martian2

*Concise 2,000-year history of China's impregnable sovereignty over the South China Sea*

US ‘Steadily Retreating’ In South China Sea Dispute « Breaking Defense - Defense industry news, analysis and commentary

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## dichoi

Martian2 said:


> *Concise 2,000-year history of China's impregnable sovereignty over the South China Sea*
> 
> US ‘Steadily Retreating’ In South China Sea Dispute « Breaking Defense - Defense industry news, analysis and commentary



This is fabrication of Chinese. North Vietnam after 1954 didn't have right over Islands of South Vietnam.


Historically China of Han Chinese is in North China.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Martian2

dichoi said:


> This is fabrication of Chinese. Historically China of Han Chinese is in North China.


No. That was *2,200* years ago.

China was the first nation to claim the South China Sea starting about *2,000* years ago.

China's Han Dynasty possessed the world's best naval technology and conducted a lot of exploration (and territorial claims) in 200 years.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## dichoi

Martian2 said:


> No. That was *2,200* years ago.
> 
> China was the first nation to claim the South China Sea starting about *2,000* years ago.



Pls don't lie like this. There is Zhongyuan your native land. 2,000 year is joke.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Martian2

dichoi said:


> Pls don't lie like this. There is Zhongyuan your native land. 2,000 year is joke.


You're a typical ignorant Viet. I don't have the time or inclination to educate you.

Try reading some history about Han China (that rivaled the Roman Empire) on your own time.

Han Dynasty - Ancient History Encyclopedia

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## dichoi

Martian2 said:


> You're a typical ignorant Viet. I don't have the time or inclination to educate you.
> 
> Try reading some history about Han China (that rivaled the Roman Empire) on your own time.
> 
> Han Dynasty - Ancient History Encyclopedia



In the past there is Jiaozhi Yang (Ocean of Jiaozhi people - Vietnamese). I is recognized by your ancestors.



http://data:image/jpeg;base64,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





http://data:image/jpeg;base64,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

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## bobsm

*Harnessing the ocean: China’s military looks to wave farms to power radar on remote islands as South China Sea disputes simmer*

Country has been testing one of the largest power-generating machines of its kind in the world with maximum capacity in excess of 200 kilowatts.

PUBLISHED : Monday, 30 November, 2015, 8:00am
UPDATED : Monday, 30 November, 2015, 10:18am

Stephen Chen





Construction work is shown at Mabini (Johnson) Reef in the disputed Spratley Islands in the South China Sea in this February 2015 file photo. China is engaged in a series of territorial disputes with its neighbours in these waters, and is now turning to the ocean to help meet its energy needs. Photo: EPA

China plans to build electricity-generating wave farms near remote islands in the South China Sea, where it is engaged in territorial disputes with several of its neighbours, to mitigate the threat of a power blackout hitting its military radars there, according to researchers involved in the project.

These giant floating power stations are expected to significantly strengthen the nation’s foothold in the disputed waters.

A full-scale unit, about half the size of a soccer field, was deployed for a test run in waters off the Wanshan archipelago near the city of Zhuhai in Guangdong province earlier this month, said the researchers at the Chinese Academy of Sciences’ Guangzhou Institute of energy Conversion.

Using cutting-edge mechanical designs, the generator will efficiently transform the constant movement of the sea water into electricity and stay in operation on windless days and also in the face of a super-typhoon, they said.

China’s breakneck rush to build civilian and military facilities in these seas has stretched its power supply chain in recent years. One of the biggest headaches has proven to be keeping the country’s larger-than-ever radar network in constant operation.

“Military radars are power-hungry beasts that must be fed all the time,” said one researcher, who declined to be named due to the sensitivity of the issue.



China’s largest floating power generator, which converts sea waves to electricity that can be used on remote islands, was deployed for a test run in early November in the South China Sea. Photo: Guangzhou Institute of Energy Conversion, Chinese Academy of Sciences

“Sending fossil fuels to remote islands is costly and time-consuming. The shipping can also be affected easily by bad weather or unfriendly neighbours,” the researcher added.

More power is needed for the radar to cast its net wider. When operating at full power to get a bead on a distant fighter jet or unknown object, an early warning system may require thousands of kilowatts of energy - tantamount to the total demand of 1,000 average households in the United States.

Conventional renewable energy sources are not suitable for small islands, the researchers said.

Most lack sufficient land area for the installation of solar power panels, which at any rate are usually quickly compromised by faecal matter from birds, the team said.

Moreover, wind turbines cannot generate a stable enough energy supply, and their performance is also severely affected by the weather.

The unit that was tested is among the largest power-generating machines of its kind in the world, capable of churning out in excess of 200 kilowatts.

Similar power buoys deployed in the US and Australia have shown peak power outputs of around 150kw. The largest single wave energy convertor to date was a prototype deployed at a wave farm in Portugal, which recorded 750kw.



The PLA Navy has been carrying out realistic confrontation exercise in the South China Sea this year, according to China’s state media. Photo: SCMP Pictures

*But the new Chinese generator can survive even the most extreme weather conditions, the researchers said.

In the event of a typhoon, it would automatically partially submerge, leaving only a small area on the surface to avoid damage caused by strong winds.

The unit is not anchored to the ocean bed, which allows it to move freely amid strong waves.

The design, which resembles half a submarine, has performed well. A smaller 10-kw prototype even survived Typhoon Haiyan in the South China Sea two years ago. The typhoon claimed over 6,000 lives in the Philippines.

The machine continued generating power during the typhoon even after most of it was submerged, the researchers said.*

The wave farms that are planned have a flexible capacity with room to grow as more converters can be added later to meet demand.

The electricity will be channelled to nearby islands using underwater cables.

The enormous power requirements of military radar facilities means they cannot operate on a full-time basis with a large and stable energy supply, so using sea waves to provide power is a logical solution, said Li Ming. The professor of radar technology works at the National Lab of Radar Signal Processing in Xidian University, Xi’an in northwestern Shaanxi province.

But Li doubted whether a wave farm would fully satisfy demand.

“A warning radar consumes far more than 200kw of power,” he said.

Another problem is the cost of such an operation. A wave farm needs many power-generating units to form a grid for maximum output.

But those who field-tested the single unit recently said it cost nearly 20 million yuan (US$3.13 million) to design and build.

Harnessing the ocean: China’s military looks to wave farms to power radar on remote islands as South China Sea disputes simmer | South China Morning Post

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## TaiShang

bobsm said:


> China plans to build electricity-generating wave farms near remote islands in the South China Sea, where it is engaged in territorial disputes with several of its neighbours, to mitigate the threat of a power blackout hitting its military radars there, according to researchers involved in the project.



China looks like to render the islands self-sustaining, which is critical in terms of their military and civilian utility in times of peace and crisis. 

Looked in general perspective, this is a contribution to regional peace. Given that China is the only capable country in the region to undertake such development projects, it is also mandatory.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Rechoice

*UN chief calls for respect for international law in East Sea*
VNA MONDAY, NOVEMBER 23, 2015 - 

.




UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon and delegates in the Summit. (Source: VNA)

*Hanoi (VNA)* – The parties involved in disputes in the East Sea need to exercise restraint and settle disputes by peaceful means, through dialogues and in line with international law, said UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon. 

The UN Secretary General made the call i n the framework of meetings on the sidelines of the ASEAN Summit, the East Asia Summit (EAS) and related meetings in Malaysia on November 22, after China said it would continue construction of military and civil bases on the artificial islands it built in the East Sea. 

Previously, US President Barack Obama said concerned countries should stop building artificial islands and militarising their claims in the East Sea. 

"For the sake of regional stability, the claimants should halt reclamation, construction and militarisation of disputed areas," Obama told a meeting with leaders of the 10 member countries of the Association of South East Asian Nations (ASEAN) in Kuala Lumpur on November 21. 

He also supported the creation of a Code of Conduct in the East Sea. 

Last month, a US guided missile destroyer, USS Lassen, navigated within 12 nautical miles of artificial islands China has been building in Vietnam’s Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelago, the AFP news agency reported on October 27. 

This was seen as the first concrete move in the US’s plan to conduct regular patrol activities in the East Sea. 

Meanwhile, Reuters said the patrol carried out by the destroyer USS Lassen approached Su Bi (Subi) Reef and Vanh Khan (Mischief) Reef in the Truong Sa archipelago. Additional patrols would follow in the coming time. 

On October 29, in reply to reporters’ queries on Vietnam’s response to the US ship’s voyage, Ministry Spokesperson Le Hai Binh said as a sovereign state over the Hoang Sa (Paracels) and Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelagos in the East Sea and a member of the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), Vietnam respects the freedom of navigation and aviation in the East Sea on basis of the relevant provisions of the convention and in accordance with the coastal states’ regulations. 

Vietnam calls for parties involved to contribute to the maintenance of peace, stability, security, and navigation and aviation safety in the East Sea on the basis of international law, including the UNCLOS and the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the East Sea (DOC), he stated.-VNA


----------



## TaiShang

Rechoice said:


> *UN chief calls for respect for international law in East Sea*
> VNA MONDAY, NOVEMBER 23, 2015 -
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon and delegates in the Summit. (Source: VNA)
> 
> *Hanoi (VNA)* – The parties involved in disputes in the East Sea need to exercise restraint and settle disputes by peaceful means, through dialogues and in line with international law, said UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon.
> 
> The UN Secretary General made the call i n the framework of meetings on the sidelines of the ASEAN Summit, the East Asia Summit (EAS) and related meetings in Malaysia on November 22, after China said it would continue construction of military and civil bases on the artificial islands it built in the East Sea.
> 
> Previously, US President Barack Obama said concerned countries should stop building artificial islands and militarising their claims in the East Sea.
> 
> "For the sake of regional stability, the claimants should halt reclamation, construction and militarisation of disputed areas," Obama told a meeting with leaders of the 10 member countries of the Association of South East Asian Nations (ASEAN) in Kuala Lumpur on November 21.
> 
> He also supported the creation of a Code of Conduct in the East Sea.
> 
> Last month, a US guided missile destroyer, USS Lassen, navigated within 12 nautical miles of artificial islands China has been building in Vietnam’s Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelago, the AFP news agency reported on October 27.
> 
> This was seen as the first concrete move in the US’s plan to conduct regular patrol activities in the East Sea.
> 
> Meanwhile, Reuters said the patrol carried out by the destroyer USS Lassen approached Su Bi (Subi) Reef and Vanh Khan (Mischief) Reef in the Truong Sa archipelago. Additional patrols would follow in the coming time.
> 
> On October 29, in reply to reporters’ queries on Vietnam’s response to the US ship’s voyage, Ministry Spokesperson Le Hai Binh said as a sovereign state over the Hoang Sa (Paracels) and Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelagos in the East Sea and a member of the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), Vietnam respects the freedom of navigation and aviation in the East Sea on basis of the relevant provisions of the convention and in accordance with the coastal states’ regulations.
> 
> Vietnam calls for parties involved to contribute to the maintenance of peace, stability, security, and navigation and aviation safety in the East Sea on the basis of international law, including the UNCLOS and the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the East Sea (DOC), he stated.-VNA



Vietnam should stop island build-up. And destroy all that was built since the early 70s. This is what Mr. Moon says.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Rechoice

TaiShang said:


> Vietnam should stop island build-up. And destroy all that was built since the early 70s. This is what Mr. Moon says.



we do it on Islands, we have right to it , to secure ordenry life of our people who is living there.


----------



## TaiShang

Rechoice said:


> we do it on Islands, we have right to it , to secure ordenry life of our people who is living there.



What a coincidence！

We are doing exactly the same thing.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Rechoice

TaiShang said:


> What a coincidence！
> 
> We are doing exactly the same thing.



reclaimation on corel reefs under sea level, where China taken with force is illegal, bro.


----------



## TaiShang

Rechoice said:


> reclaimation on corel reefs under sea level, where China taken with force is illegal, bro.



China can do whatever it wants with the islands and reefs that it owns. This is legal. 

In fact, reclamation and build up on islands and reefs stolen by Vietnam from China is illegal.

I guess we have some disagreement on this.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Rechoice

TaiShang said:


> China can do whatever it wants with the islands and reefs that it owns. This is legal.
> 
> In fact, reclamation and build up on islands and reefs stolen by Vietnam from China is illegal.
> 
> I guess we have some disagreement on this.



Vietnam controlled Islands from many hundred year ago Le and Nguyen dynasty Vietnam, without troubles with China in the past.

china claimed from 1948 recently with nine dashed line. China is greedy and liar.


----------



## Viet

Martian2 said:


> No. That was *2,200* years ago.
> 
> China was the first nation to claim the South China Sea starting about *2,000* years ago.
> 
> China's Han Dynasty possessed the world's best naval technology and conducted a lot of exploration (and territorial claims) in 200 years.


Can you post the link or quote proving you made claim bla bla 2,000 years ago? I want to read them. Any maps or documents from the Han governments? Share with me.

Had anyone recognise your claim 2,000 years ago?

Prove that you controlled and administered the sea and islands, having soldiers or inhabitants in them. Fishing or swimming around don't count. 

Prove that there were only you chinese that inhabited the region, virtually the only race that existed and no other nations no ethnics no nothing.

And why only the SC Sea despite it lies some 1,000s miles away from China and not the East China Sea although it lies direct before your house door?

You don't want to be called as liar, do you?


----------



## Martian2

Viet said:


> Can you post the link or quote proving you made claim bla bla 2,000 years ago? I want to read them.
> 
> Had anyone recognise your claim 2,000 years ago?
> 
> And why only the SC Sea despite it lies some 1,000s miles away from China and not the East China Sea although it lies direct before your house door?


Here's a good historical summary.

The South China Sea Maritime Dispute: Political, Legal and Regional Perspectives - Leszek Buszynski, Christopher B. Roberts - Google Books

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Viet

Martian2 said:


> Here's a good historical summary.
> 
> The South China Sea Maritime Dispute: Political, Legal and Regional Perspectives - Leszek Buszynski, Christopher B. Roberts - Google Books


I asked you for original documents from the Han governments written in mandarin or chinese. And you post an english article written by a chinese?


----------



## Martian2

Viet said:


> I asked you for original documents from the Han governments written in mandarin or chinese. And you post an english article written by a chinese?


Send a request to the government of China. I don't have them.

These ancient Chinese maps are all that I have.
----------

*Spratly Islands have belonged to China since ancient times*

Ocean-faring Chinese explorers had claimed the Spratly Islands a thousand years ago.

[Source: Wikipedia article on Spratly Islands with primary sources listed in footnotes]

"Ancient Chinese maps record the 'Thousand Li Stretch of Sands'; Qianli Changsha (千里長沙) and the 'Ten-Thousand Li of Stone Pools'; Wanli Shitang (萬里石塘),[7] which China today claims refers to the Spratly Islands. The Wanli Shitang have been explored by the Chinese since the Yuan Dynasty and may have been considered by them to have been within their national boundaries. [8][9] They are also referenced in the 13th century,[10] followed by the Ming Dynasty.[11] When the Ming Dynasty collapsed, the Qing Dynasty continued to include the territory in maps compiled in 1724,[12] 1755,[13] 1767,[14] 1810,[15] and 1817.[16] A Vietnamese map from 1834 also includes the Spratly Islands clumped in with the Paracels (a common occurrence on maps of that time) labeled as 'Wanli Changsha'.[17]"





"By the twelfth century, names for the South China Sea islands began to appear. The Paracels and the Spratlys were referred to more consistently as Changsha and Shitang. By the mid-fourteenth century, Shitang could be accurately identified as the Spratlys. There is also evidence of Chinese naval control over some areas of the South China Sea, which resulted in complete Chinese dominion of the South China Sea in the late thirteenth century. Finally, in the fifteenth century, Zheng He's seven voyages placed the South China Sea islands on the official navigational charts. In this map, the Xisha Islands are called Shitang, and the Nansha Islands are referred to as Wansheng Shitang Yu."





"The Map of South and East Ocean Sea Routes was drawn in between 1712-1721 by Qing (Ching) Dynasty Fujian (Fuchien) Province Navy Commander Shi Shibiao, the son of a famous Qing Dynasty imperial officer. This map shows the sea routes, time, and descriptions from Chinese coastal ports to Japan, Laos, Vietnam, Indonesia, Brunei, Cambodia and the Philippines. On this map, the locations and names of the Southern Sea Islands (Nanhai Zhudao) are very accurate. The map shows Chinese sovereignty over the South China Sea islands (including Nansha Islands, Xisha Islands, Zhongsha Islands and Dongsha Islands)."





"A Vietnamese map from 1834 also includes the Spratly Islands clumped in with the Paracels (a common occurrence on maps of that time) labeled as [Chinese] 'Wanli Changsha'."
----------





*"Paracel Islands as shown in Zheng He Voyage Map (the group of rocks at the lower right hand corner)[21]"*
(Source: "MAO KUN MAP-19" by Mao Kun - mybook. Licensed under Public Domain via Wikimedia Commons)

"Xisha

The Chinese name Xisha (西沙), literally 'western sands' or 'shoals', is a modern name that distinguishes the Pratas from the 'eastern sands' (the Dongsha or Pratas), the 'southern sands' (the Nansha or Spratlys), and the 'central sands' (the Zhongsha or Macclesfield Bank). The Voyage with the Tail Wind, based on 13th-century Yuan documents but published during the Ming, called the islands the 'Distant Stony Banks' (万里石塘, Wànlǐ Shítáng, lit. 'Myriad-mile Rock Embankment').[22] The name also appears in the 'Map of Zheng He's Voyage' written in the 1430s.[23]
...
21. ^ The Overall Survey of the Ocean's Shores, Appendix 1 China in Southern Island 万生石塘 annotated as the Paracel Islands by J.V.Mills, White Lotus Press ISBN 974-8496-78-3
22. ^ 順風相送 [Shùnfēng Xiāng Sòng, Voyage of the Tail Wind]. Hosted at Chinese Wikisource. (Chinese)
23. ^ "郑和航海图" (Chinese), cited in The Overall Survey of the Ocean's Shores, App. 1: 'China in Southern Island'. White Lotus Press. ISBN 974-8496-78-3."

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Viet

Martian2 said:


> Send a request to the government of China. I don't have them.
> 
> These ancient Chinese maps are all that I have.
> ----------
> 
> *Spratly Islands have belonged to China since ancient times*
> 
> Ocean-faring Chinese explorers had claimed the Spratly Islands a thousand years ago.
> 
> [Source: Wikipedia article on Spratly Islands with primary sources listed in footnotes]
> 
> "Ancient Chinese maps record the 'Thousand Li Stretch of Sands'; Qianli Changsha (千里長沙) and the 'Ten-Thousand Li of Stone Pools'; Wanli Shitang (萬里石塘),[7] which China today claims refers to the Spratly Islands. The Wanli Shitang have been explored by the Chinese since the Yuan Dynasty and may have been considered by them to have been within their national boundaries. [8][9] They are also referenced in the 13th century,[10] followed by the Ming Dynasty.[11] When the Ming Dynasty collapsed, the Qing Dynasty continued to include the territory in maps compiled in 1724,[12] 1755,[13] 1767,[14] 1810,[15] and 1817.[16] A Vietnamese map from 1834 also includes the Spratly Islands clumped in with the Paracels (a common occurrence on maps of that time) labeled as 'Wanli Changsha'.[17]"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "By the twelfth century, names for the South China Sea islands began to appear. The Paracels and the Spratlys were referred to more consistently as Changsha and Shitang. By the mid-fourteenth century, Shitang could be accurately identified as the Spratlys. There is also evidence of Chinese naval control over some areas of the South China Sea, which resulted in complete Chinese dominion of the South China Sea in the late thirteenth century. Finally, in the fifteenth century, Zheng He's seven voyages placed the South China Sea islands on the official navigational charts. In this map, the Xisha Islands are called Shitang, and the Nansha Islands are referred to as Wansheng Shitang Yu."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "The Map of South and East Ocean Sea Routes was drawn in between 1712-1721 by Qing (Ching) Dynasty Fujian (Fuchien) Province Navy Commander Shi Shibiao, the son of a famous Qing Dynasty imperial officer. This map shows the sea routes, time, and descriptions from Chinese coastal ports to Japan, Laos, Vietnam, Indonesia, Brunei, Cambodia and the Philippines. On this map, the locations and names of the Southern Sea Islands (Nanhai Zhudao) are very accurate. The map shows Chinese sovereignty over the South China Sea islands (including Nansha Islands, Xisha Islands, Zhongsha Islands and Dongsha Islands)."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "A Vietnamese map from 1834 also includes the Spratly Islands clumped in with the Paracels (a common occurrence on maps of that time) labeled as [Chinese] 'Wanli Changsha'."
> ----------
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *"Paracel Islands as shown in Zheng He Voyage Map (the group of rocks at the lower right hand corner)[21]"*
> (Source: "MAO KUN MAP-19" by Mao Kun - mybook. Licensed under Public Domain via Wikimedia Commons)
> 
> "Xisha
> 
> The Chinese name Xisha (西沙), literally 'western sands' or 'shoals', is a modern name that distinguishes the Pratas from the 'eastern sands' (the Dongsha or Pratas), the 'southern sands' (the Nansha or Spratlys), and the 'central sands' (the Zhongsha or Macclesfield Bank). The Voyage with the Tail Wind, based on 13th-century Yuan documents but published during the Ming, called the islands the 'Distant Stony Banks' (万里石塘, Wànlǐ Shítáng, lit. 'Myriad-mile Rock Embankment').[22] The name also appears in the 'Map of Zheng He's Voyage' written in the 1430s.[23]
> ...
> 21. ^ The Overall Survey of the Ocean's Shores, Appendix 1 China in Southern Island 万生石塘 annotated as the Paracel Islands by J.V.Mills, White Lotus Press ISBN 974-8496-78-3
> 22. ^ 順風相送 [Shùnfēng Xiāng Sòng, Voyage of the Tail Wind]. Hosted at Chinese Wikisource. (Chinese)
> 23. ^ "郑和航海图" (Chinese), cited in The Overall Survey of the Ocean's Shores, App. 1: 'China in Southern Island'. White Lotus Press. ISBN 974-8496-78-3."


I just flush your reply down the toilette. Worthless. You haven't answered any of my questions.


----------



## biendong

Martian2 said:


> Send a request to the government of China. I don't have them.
> 
> These ancient Chinese maps are all that I have.
> ----------
> 
> *Spratly Islands have belonged to China since ancient times*
> 
> Ocean-faring Chinese explorers had claimed the Spratly Islands a thousand years ago.
> 
> [Source: Wikipedia article on Spratly Islands with primary sources listed in footnotes]
> 
> "Ancient Chinese maps record the 'Thousand Li Stretch of Sands'; Qianli Changsha (千里長沙) and the 'Ten-Thousand Li of Stone Pools'; Wanli Shitang (萬里石塘),[7] which China today claims refers to the Spratly Islands. The Wanli Shitang have been explored by the Chinese since the Yuan Dynasty and may have been considered by them to have been within their national boundaries. [8][9] They are also referenced in the 13th century,[10] followed by the Ming Dynasty.[11] When the Ming Dynasty collapsed, the Qing Dynasty continued to include the territory in maps compiled in 1724,[12] 1755,[13] 1767,[14] 1810,[15] and 1817.[16] A Vietnamese map from 1834 also includes the Spratly Islands clumped in with the Paracels (a common occurrence on maps of that time) labeled as 'Wanli Changsha'.[17]"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "By the twelfth century, names for the South China Sea islands began to appear. The Paracels and the Spratlys were referred to more consistently as Changsha and Shitang. By the mid-fourteenth century, Shitang could be accurately identified as the Spratlys. There is also evidence of Chinese naval control over some areas of the South China Sea, which resulted in complete Chinese dominion of the South China Sea in the late thirteenth century. Finally, in the fifteenth century, Zheng He's seven voyages placed the South China Sea islands on the official navigational charts. In this map, the Xisha Islands are called Shitang, and the Nansha Islands are referred to as Wansheng Shitang Yu."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "The Map of South and East Ocean Sea Routes was drawn in between 1712-1721 by Qing (Ching) Dynasty Fujian (Fuchien) Province Navy Commander Shi Shibiao, the son of a famous Qing Dynasty imperial officer. This map shows the sea routes, time, and descriptions from Chinese coastal ports to Japan, Laos, Vietnam, Indonesia, Brunei, Cambodia and the Philippines. On this map, the locations and names of the Southern Sea Islands (Nanhai Zhudao) are very accurate. The map shows Chinese sovereignty over the South China Sea islands (including Nansha Islands, Xisha Islands, Zhongsha Islands and Dongsha Islands)."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "A Vietnamese map from 1834 also includes the Spratly Islands clumped in with the Paracels (a common occurrence on maps of that time) labeled as [Chinese] 'Wanli Changsha'."
> ----------
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *"Paracel Islands as shown in Zheng He Voyage Map (the group of rocks at the lower right hand corner)[21]"*
> (Source: "MAO KUN MAP-19" by Mao Kun - mybook. Licensed under Public Domain via Wikimedia Commons)
> 
> "Xisha
> 
> The Chinese name Xisha (西沙), literally 'western sands' or 'shoals', is a modern name that distinguishes the Pratas from the 'eastern sands' (the Dongsha or Pratas), the 'southern sands' (the Nansha or Spratlys), and the 'central sands' (the Zhongsha or Macclesfield Bank). The Voyage with the Tail Wind, based on 13th-century Yuan documents but published during the Ming, called the islands the 'Distant Stony Banks' (万里石塘, Wànlǐ Shítáng, lit. 'Myriad-mile Rock Embankment').[22] The name also appears in the 'Map of Zheng He's Voyage' written in the 1430s.[23]
> ...
> 21. ^ The Overall Survey of the Ocean's Shores, Appendix 1 China in Southern Island 万生石塘 annotated as the Paracel Islands by J.V.Mills, White Lotus Press ISBN 974-8496-78-3
> 22. ^ 順風相送 [Shùnfēng Xiāng Sòng, Voyage of the Tail Wind]. Hosted at Chinese Wikisource. (Chinese)
> 23. ^ "郑和航海图" (Chinese), cited in The Overall Survey of the Ocean's Shores, App. 1: 'China in Southern Island'. White Lotus Press. ISBN 974-8496-78-3."



Don't lie bro.

There is stated in your map posted above: "Jiaozhi border" and "Jiaozhi Ocean" (Vietnamese Ocean). It is written in Hanzi.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Zero_wing

Rechoice said:


> Vietnam controlled Islands from many hundred year ago Le and Nguyen dynasty Vietnam, without troubles with China in the past.
> 
> china claimed from 1948 recently with nine dashed line. China is greedy and liar.



Everything the chinese say do, say, make is fabricated its a fact

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## VNAF

*Prepare for war ...
Vietnam Coast Guard received new replenishment tanker( #7011).




*










...two patrol ship (2500 ton ) with helideck ( #8004,#8005)


















x4 400ton class patrol ship ( #4036,#4037,#4038,#4039), equiped 23mm twin-barrelled

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Beidou2020

VNAF said:


> *Prepare for war ...
> Vietnam Coast Guard received new replenishment tanker( #7011).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...two patrol ship (2500 ton ) with helideck ( #8004,#8005)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> x4 400ton class patrol ship ( #4036,#4037,#4038,#4039), equiped 23mm twin-barrelled



Chinese coast guard is SIGNIFICANTLY bigger

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## bobsm

*ROC government reiterates its position on South China Sea issues*

Date: 2015/10/31 
October 31,


The government of the Republic of China ( Taiwan ) takes note of the awards pertaining to jurisdiction in the Philippines-mainland China arbitration issued by the arbitral tribunal on October 29, 2015, and solemnly reiterates its position on the South China Sea as follows:

1. Whether from the perspective of history, geography, or international law, the Nansha (Spratly) Islands, Shisha (Paracel) Islands, Chungsha Islands (Macclesfield Bank), and Tungsha (Pratas) Islands (together known as the South China Sea Islands) , as well as their surrounding waters, are an inherent part of ROC territory and waters. As the ROC enjoys all rights to these islands and their surrounding waters in accordance with international law, the ROC government does not recognize any claim to sovereignty over, or occupation of, these areas by other countries, irrespective of the reasons put forward or methods used for such claim or occupation.

2. The South China Sea islands were first discovered, named, and used, as well as incorporated into national territory, by the Chinese. Furthermore, the San Francisco Peace Treaty, which entered into effect on April 28, 1952, as well as the Treaty of Peace between the ROC and Japan , which was signed that same day, together with other international legal instruments, reconfirmed that the islands and reefs in the South China Sea occupied by Japan should be returned to the ROC.

3. Taiping Island (Itu Aba), the largest (0.5 square km) of the naturally formed Nansha (Spratly) Islands , has been garrisoned by ROC troops since 1956. From legal, economic, and geographic perspectives, Taiping Island (Itu Aba) indisputably qualifies as an “island” according to the specifications of Article 121 of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), and can sustain human habitation and economic life of its own; it is thus categorically not a “rock” under the same article. Any claims by other countries which aim to deny this fact will not impair the legal status of Taiping Island (Itu Aba) and its maritime rights based on UNCLOS.

4. The ROC has consistently adhered to the principles of peaceful settlement of international disputes and freedom of navigation and overflight as stipulated in the UN Charter and other relevant international law and regulations. In fact, the ROC has defended Taiping Island (Itu Aba) and other islands without ever getting into military conflict with other nations. Nor has the ROC interfered with other nations’ freedom of navigation or overflight in the South China Sea .

5. The ROC government calls on the coastal states of the South China Sea to respect the provisions and spirit of the UN Charter and UNCLOS, and to exercise restraint, safeguard peace and stability in the South China Sea, uphold the freedom of navigation and overflight through the South China Sea, refrain from taking any action that might escalate tensions, and resolve disputes peacefully.

6. On May 26, 2015, the ROC government proposed the South China Sea Peace Initiative, which is based on the principles of safeguarding sovereignty, shelving disputes, pursuing peace and reciprocity, and promoting joint development. Based on consultations conducted on a basis of equality and reciprocity, the ROC is willing to work with other parties concerned to jointly ensure peace and stability in the South China Sea , as well as conserve and develop resources in the region.

7. The Philippines has not invited the ROC to participate in its arbitration with mainland China , and the arbitral tribunal has not solicited the ROC’s views. Therefore, the arbitration does not affect the ROC in any way, and the ROC neither recognizes nor accepts related awards. (E)


ROC government reiterates its position on South China Sea issues - News and Events - Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Republic of China (Taiwan) 中華民國外交部 - 全球資訊網英文網

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## cnleio

VNAF said:


> *Prepare for war ...
> Vietnam Coast Guard received new replenishment tanker( #7011).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


War for WHAT ? **

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## dichoi

China is afraid to go to arbitration, just talking about muscles. Claim of China is illegal.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Elkanah

Seems there have been no new clear satalite pics of construction on the new islands for some time please post if you have any new ones available thx


----------



## biendong

Elkanah said:


> Seems there have been no new clear satalite pics of construction on the new islands for some time please post if you have any new ones available thx



man made island is meaningless.


----------



## Elkanah

Maybe but I like to observe the content of what's being constructed on them


----------



## applesauce

VNAF said:


> *Prepare for war ...
> Vietnam Coast Guard received new replenishment tanker( #7011).*



if youre relying on the coast guard for "war", you might as well surrender now to save yourself the embarrassment.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## JSCh

Taiwan quietly holds ceremony marking port opening on disputed Spratly island - AJW by The Asahi Shimbun
December 13, 2015
By SATOSHI UKAI/ Correspondent

TAIPEI--Taiwan's Interior Ministry announced on Dec. 12 the completion of port facilities on Taiping island, part of the disputed Spratly Islands in the South China Sea.

Although a ceremony was held to mark the opening, Taiwan President Ma Ying-jeou did not attend, partly due to concerns raised by the United States about the international impact of such a visit.

China has been escalating efforts to effectively control the Spratlys, which have heightened tensions in the South China Sea.

Taiwan built the port facilities on an island that it effectively controls, but which is also known as Itu Aba island and claimed by China, the Philippines and Vietnam.

Although Taiping island only has a total mass of about 0.5 square kilometer, it is the largest natural island among the Spratlys, lying about 1,600 kilometers from southern Taiwan.

Over a two-year construction period, Taiwan not only reinforced the existing runway, but also constructed a lighthouse and harbor where large ships can dock.

According to the Taiwan newspaper United Evening News, Ma decided not to attend the ceremony because of concerns it could affect the sale of weapons to Taiwan by the United States.

In Ma's place, Chen Wei-zen, the interior minister, attended.

However, Ma could still possibly visit Taiping before his term in office ends.

William Stanton, who now heads the Center for Asia Policy at the National Tsing Hua University in Taiwan after serving as the de facto U.S. ambassador to Taiwan, pointed to the November meeting between Ma and Chinese President Xi Jinping, the first time the leaders of Taiwan and China have ever met.

"If Ma was to go to Taiping, I think it would more closely identify the Taiwanese position with that of China," Stanton said.

Because China considers Taiwan as part of its territory, any territorial claims made by Taiwan would also revert back to China in the event of a reunification.

By SATOSHI UKAI/ Correspondent​

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## ahojunk

View of Meiji Island airstrip.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## ahojunk

*Taiwan Minister Christens Projects on Taiping, Among Spratly Islands*
Official inaugurates new wharf, lighthouse, reasserting Taiwan’s territorial claims in South China Sea






By JEREMY PAGE
Dec. 13, 2015 9:57 a.m. ET

BEIJING—Taiwan’s interior minister has paid a rare visit to a disputed island in the South China Sea and inaugurated a new wharf and lighthouse there, reasserting his government’s territorial claims in a region where China’s land reclamation has ignited international tensions.

Chen Wei-zen and other senior officials flew to Taiping Island on Saturday to preside over a ceremony marking the completion of a two-year project to upgrade infrastructure, according to a statement from Taiwan’s interior ministry.

Taiping Island, which houses a military airfield, is the largest natural island in the Spratlys chain and the only one controlled by Taiwan, whose claims in the area overlap with those of China, Vietnam, Malaysia, the Philippines and Brunei.

:
:

But Mr. Chen, the interior minister, also thanked coast-guard personnel and construction workers for helping to defend the island, according to the statement.

And he reaffirmed Taiwan’s position that Taiping should be considered a natural island, rather than a rock, because it had sufficient ground water and other resources to sustain human life, according to the statement.

Under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, a natural island capable of sustaining human habitation is entitled to an exclusive economic zone—which allows regulation of matters such as mineral and fishing rights—stretching up to 200 nautical miles from its shores.

Defense experts say Taiwan has been building a new wharf on Taiping Island—also known as Itu Aba—to allow larger ships to dock there, while upgrading its airstrip to allow frequent flights by larger cargo planes.

The island’s 1,195-meter (3,944-foot) airstrip is big enough to accommodate Taiwan’s F-16 fighters, C-130 Hercules cargo planes and P-3 maritime patrol aircraft, according to the Center for Strategic and International Studies, or CSIS, in Washington.

Taiwan took control of Taiping Island in 1946, established a permanent base in 1956 and sent 100 coast-guard personnel to replace its marines there in 2000, according to the CSIS Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative, which monitors territorial disputes in the area.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Daniel808

yugocrosrb95 said:


> WW-1 era tactics, they haven't learn from WW-2 era anything? Facepalm





Rechoice said:


> In Korean war, PLA used human wave tactic too. They did in the same way in Sino-Vietnam war 1979.



Sorry off topic.

*You are wrong ! China Army use "Short Attack" in Korean War not Human wave attack like Soviets did in World War 2. That's different !*
But, U.S and South Korean forces misleading it. they think, they have been under attack by Human wave attack, but the Truth is not. That's Short Attack, and Different with Human wave attack.



> *the Chinese short attack — a combination of infiltration and the shock tactics employed by the PLA during the Korean War.* According to some accounts, Marshal Peng Dehuai—the overall commander of the Chinese forces in Korea—is said to have invented this tactic.* A typical Chinese short attack was carried out at night by small fireteams on a narrow front against the weakest point in enemy defenses.The Chinese assault team would crawl undetected within grenade range, then launch surprise attacks against the defenders in order to breach the defenses by relying on maximum shock and confusion.*
> 
> If the initial shock failed to breach the defenses, additional fireteams would press on behind them and attack the same point until a breach was created.Once penetration was achieved, the bulk of the Chinese forces would move into the enemy rear and attack from behind.During the attacks, the Chinese assault teams would disperse while masking themselves using the terrain, and this made it difficult for UN defenders to target numerous Chinese troops. Attacks by the successive Chinese fireteams were also carefully timed to minimize casualties.



Image of Dec. 13, 2015.





Nice view

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Solomon2

*US Navy commander warns of possible South China Sea arms race*
REUTERS — PUBLISHED ABOUT 11 HOURS AGO





"My concern is that after many decades of peace and prosperity, we may be seeing the leading edge of a return of 'might makes it right' to the region," Swift said on Monday in a speech in Hawaii, according to a copy seen by Reuters. — AP/File

TOKYO: The United States (US) Pacific Fleet Commander has warned of a possible arms race in the disputed South China Sea which could engulf the region, as nations become increasingly tempted to use military force to settle territorial spats instead of international law.

Commander Admiral Scott Swift urged nations, like China, to seek arbitration to settle maritime disputes.

"My concern is that after many decades of peace and prosperity, we may be seeing the leading edge of a return of 'might makes it right' to the region," Swift said on Monday in a speech in Hawaii, according to a copy seen by Reuters.

By resorting to military strength to impose territorial claims, nations, including China, risked sparking a military arms race that could engulf the region, he said.

"Claimants and non-claimants alike are transferring larger shares of national wealth to develop more capable naval forces beyond what is needed merely for self defence," Swift said.

China claims most of the South China Sea, through which more than $5 trillion of world trade ships every year, a fifth of it heading to and from US ports.

Beijing is building seven man-made islands on reefs in the Spratly Islands, including a 10,000-foot airstrip on one of the sites, according to satellite imagery of the area.

*'Superfluous warnings' threaten ships, aircraft*
"Even now, ships and aircraft operating nearby these features, in accordance with international law are subject to superfluous warnings that threaten routine and commercial operations," Swift said, speaking at the Cooperative Strategy Forum to naval commanders from Japan, the Philippines, Indonesia and other countries.

Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei, the Philippines and Taiwan also claim parts of the South China Sea.

In October, the US guided missile destroyer Lassen sailed close to one of China's man-made islands, drawing an angry rebuke from China and a shadowing patrol.

The US Navy is unlikely to carry out another patrol within 12 nautical miles of Chinese-built islands in the South China Sea this year as officials had initially suggested, three US defence officials said on Monday.

In a challenge to China's island building program, Manila has asked the Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague to affirm its right to areas within 200 nautical miles of its coastline, under the terms of a United Nations (UN) convention.

"The Arbitration Tribunal's case between the Philippines and China could become the latest opportunity to demonstrate lawful access to regional prosperity for all nations," Swift said.

Beijing so far has rejected the courts jurisdiction and has boycotted the hearing. Rulings are supposed to be binding on its member countries, which include China. But the tribunal has no powers of enforcement and its verdicts have sometimes been ignored.

The People's Daily, the official newspaper of China's ruling Communist Party, on Tuesday described the arbitration case as a "farce" designed to rip territory from China it has had sovereignty over since ancient times.

"Certain people in the Philippines are blinded by lust for gain," the newspaper wrote in a commentary, adding it was a "vain illusion" to think the case would sway China's determination to protect its lands.


----------



## Elkanah

You can agree or disagree with China's approach to the South China Sea but one thing is certain these islands are extremely impressive feats as far as I know without equal in terms of ability to construct what seems impractical and focus on strategic objectives

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## biendong

with hight technology, US can build floating island in SCS.



Elkanah said:


> You can agree or disagree with China's approach to the South China Sea but one thing is certain these islands are extremely impressive feats as far as I know without equal in terms of ability to construct what seems impractical and focus on strategic objectives


----------



## biendong

ahojunk said:


> *Taiwan Minister Christens Projects on Taiping, Among Spratly Islands*
> Official inaugurates new wharf, lighthouse, reasserting Taiwan’s territorial claims in South China Sea
> 
> View attachment 279408
> 
> 
> By JEREMY PAGE
> Dec. 13, 2015 9:57 a.m. ET
> 
> BEIJING—Taiwan’s interior minister has paid a rare visit to a disputed island in the South China Sea and inaugurated a new wharf and lighthouse there, reasserting his government’s territorial claims in a region where China’s land reclamation has ignited international tensions.
> 
> Chen Wei-zen and other senior officials flew to Taiping Island on Saturday to preside over a ceremony marking the completion of a two-year project to upgrade infrastructure, according to a statement from Taiwan’s interior ministry.
> 
> Taiping Island, which houses a military airfield, is the largest natural island in the Spratlys chain and the only one controlled by Taiwan, whose claims in the area overlap with those of China, Vietnam, Malaysia, the Philippines and Brunei.
> 
> :
> :
> 
> But Mr. Chen, the interior minister, also thanked coast-guard personnel and construction workers for helping to defend the island, according to the statement.
> 
> And he reaffirmed Taiwan’s position that Taiping should be considered a natural island, rather than a rock, because it had sufficient ground water and other resources to sustain human life, according to the statement.
> 
> Under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, a natural island capable of sustaining human habitation is entitled to an exclusive economic zone—which allows regulation of matters such as mineral and fishing rights—stretching up to 200 nautical miles from its shores.
> 
> Defense experts say Taiwan has been building a new wharf on Taiping Island—also known as Itu Aba—to allow larger ships to dock there, while upgrading its airstrip to allow frequent flights by larger cargo planes.
> 
> The island’s 1,195-meter (3,944-foot) airstrip is big enough to accommodate Taiwan’s F-16 fighters, C-130 Hercules cargo planes and P-3 maritime patrol aircraft, according to the Center for Strategic and International Studies, or CSIS, in Washington.
> 
> Taiwan took control of Taiping Island in 1946, established a permanent base in 1956 and sent 100 coast-guard personnel to replace its marines there in 2000, according to the CSIS Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative, which monitors territorial disputes in the area.



*Taiwan urged to end violations of Vietnam’s sovereignty*

Vietnam requests that Taiwan (China) immediately end its actions that violate Vietnam’s sovereignty and not to repeat such violations, said Vietnamese Foreign Ministry Spokesperson Le Hai Binh on December 13


The spokesperson made the demand after Taiwanese officials attended a so-called inaugural ceremony of several facilities on Ba Binh island - part of Vietnam’s Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelago – on December 12.

“Vietnam has sufficient legal grounds and historical evidence to prove its indisputable sovereignty over Hoang Sa (Paracel) and Truong Sa archipelagoes,” the spokesperson affirmed, adding that all activities of any side in those areas without Vietnam’s consent are illegal and void.

He stressed that Taiwan has seriously violated Vietnam’s sovereignty, caused tensions and complicated the situation in the East Sea when it sent officials to Ba Binh island in Vietnam’s Truong Sa archipelago and declared to put into operation a number of facilities on the island, in disregard of the concerns of Vietnam, other countries and the international community.

Vietnam resolutely opposes these acts, the spokesperson said.


----------



## Place Of Space

biendong said:


> with hight technology, US can build floating island in SCS.



China will oppose US to build islands in SCS. It has nothing to do with SCS.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## gambit

Hey, China, this is why democracies beat autocracies in a fight. (So back off the South China Sea.) - The Washington Post

Democracies win almost all of the wars they start and about two-thirds of the wars in which they are the targets.

The U.S. is working actively, and successfully, to build large coalitions to support its goals in the South China Sea and elsewhere. By contrast, adversaries like China and Russia largely stand alone in these disputes.

For many members of the U.S. coalition in Asia, including the Philippines, Vietnam, Indonesia, and Malaysia, China is the nearer neighbor and a rising trade partner. China is likely more economically important to the future of these countries than the U.S. Similarly, Ukraine and the Baltics share a border with Russia, not the United States. So why do these countries (seek to) ally with us?

One answer is that the United States is pursuing public goods — like open sea lanes or territorial integrity — while China and Russia are seeking territory, which is a private good. It’s easier to build a coalition around the pursuit of something that benefits everyone, rather than an asset that must be divided up, often unequally.

Democracies don’t just win because of who they are, but because of what they want (and what they don’t). As long as states seek things that coalition partners can share, they tend to win and to get their way in world politics.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## oproh

gambit said:


> Hey, China, this is why democracies beat autocracies in a fight. (So back off the South China Sea.) - The Washington Post
> 
> Democracies win almost all of the wars they start and about two-thirds of the wars in which they are the targets.
> 
> The U.S. is working actively, and successfully, to build large coalitions to support its goals in the South China Sea and elsewhere. By contrast, adversaries like China and Russia largely stand alone in these disputes.
> 
> For many members of the U.S. coalition in Asia, including the Philippines, Vietnam, Indonesia, and Malaysia, China is the nearer neighbor and a rising trade partner. China is likely more economically important to the future of these countries than the U.S. Similarly, Ukraine and the Baltics share a border with Russia, not the United States. So why do these countries (seek to) ally with us?
> 
> One answer is that the United States is pursuing public goods — like open sea lanes or territorial integrity — while China and Russia are seeking territory, which is a private good. It’s easier to build a coalition around the pursuit of something that benefits everyone, rather than an asset that must be divided up, often unequally.
> 
> Democracies don’t just win because of who they are, but because of what they want (and what they don’t). As long as states seek things that coalition partners can share, they tend to win and to get their way in world politics.


On one side you have Communist China and it's supporters, on the other side you have Communist Vietnam and it's supporters. So in the fight for South China Sea islands, whichever side wins a communist country will emerge as a winner. It's embarrassing to see you posting a dumb article.

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## gambit

oproh said:


> On one side you have Communist China and it's supporters, on the other side you have Communist Vietnam and it's supporters. So in the fight for South China Sea islands, whichever side wins a communist country will emerge as a winner. It's embarrassing to see you posting a dumb article.


It is embarrassing for *YOU* to be on this forum, intellectually stunted as you are.

A communist country will emerge as a winner ? Is that the best you can do ? Who is on Viet Nam's side ? Who is on China's side ? You are hopeful that China can win in a limited war for control of the SCS, while every credible military analysts in the world, including some in the PLA, pretty give the fight to the US and allies. And we will have allies while China will stand alone.

You missed the point of the article, which is that control of the SCS have different contexts and perceptions for everyone involved. The perception is that China want control of the SCS for selfish reasons while the US want control of the SCS for altruistic reasons. The reality is that the US have been making good for our reasons all these decades since the end of WW II. The result is that regional powers will believe US more than believing in China.

Go back to wherever sandbox you came from, kid.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## 70U63

But you forgot that most of the countries in the region are not able or indirectly don't practice democratic system as per western standard.
Democratic system is not the answer to everything. They (those in the region) can't even agree among themselves before unite to fight China, what do you expect them to do?
And seriously, who need war in the region? they are so fxcking poor and still want to go war?



gambit said:


> It is embarrassing for *YOU* to be on this forum, intellectually stunted as you are.
> 
> A communist country will emerge as a winner ? Is that the best you can do ? Who is on Viet Nam's side ? Who is on China's side ? You are hopeful that China can win in a limited war for control of the SCS, while every credible military analysts in the world, including some in the PLA, pretty give the fight to the US and allies. And we will have allies while China will stand alone.
> 
> You missed the point of the article, which is that control of the SCS have different contexts and perceptions for everyone involved. The perception is that China want control of the SCS for selfish reasons while the US want control of the SCS for altruistic reasons. The reality is that the US have been making good for our reasons all these decades since the end of WW II. The result is that regional powers will believe US more than believing in China.
> 
> Go back to wherever sandbox you came from, kid.

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## cnleio

gambit said:


> Hey, China, this is why democracies beat autocracies in a fight. (So back off the South China Sea.) - The Washington Post
> 
> Democracies win almost all of the wars they start and about two-thirds of the wars in which they are the targets.
> 
> The U.S. is working actively, and successfully, to build large coalitions to support its goals in the South China Sea and elsewhere. By contrast, adversaries like China and Russia largely stand alone in these disputes.
> 
> For many members of the U.S. coalition in Asia, including the Philippines, Vietnam, Indonesia, and Malaysia, China is the nearer neighbor and a rising trade partner. China is likely more economically important to the future of these countries than the U.S. Similarly, Ukraine and the Baltics share a border with Russia, not the United States. So why do these countries (seek to) ally with us?
> 
> One answer is that the United States is pursuing public goods — like open sea lanes or territorial integrity — while China and Russia are seeking territory, which is a private good. It’s easier to build a coalition around the pursuit of something that benefits everyone, rather than an asset that must be divided up, often unequally.
> 
> Democracies don’t just win because of who they are, but because of what they want (and what they don’t). As long as states seek things that coalition partners can share, they tend to win and to get their way in world politics.


Nothing new here ... just look back what U.S help during CCP-KMT Civil War, North-South Vietnam War, Russia-Georgia conflict, West-East Ukraine conflict, ISIS in Iraqi ... sometimes the U.S promise just b@llsh!t, they might help u as long as not directly conflict with Russia or China. U.S can betray some small nation at any time for their interests in this region, if they feel necessary even can make friends with their rival like China at any time.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Zero_wing

cnleio said:


> Nothing new here ... just look back what U.S help during CCP-KMT Civil War, North-South Vietnam War, Russia-Georgia conflict, West-East Ukraine conflict, ISIS in Iraqi ... sometimes the U.S promise just b@llsh!t, they might help u as long as not directly conflict with Russia or China. U.S can betray some small nation at any time for their interests in this region, if they feel necessary even can make friends with their rival like China at any time.
> View attachment 279731



Ya right and china is better oh please who can say one thing and does other is no better


----------



## cnleio

Zero_wing said:


> Ya right and china is better oh please who can say one thing and does other is no better


My point, it's China is useful for U.S interest in this region ... that's the reason why U.S need us in Cold War, the same reason they also can betray others for their interest with China.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Zero_wing

cnleio said:


> My point, it's China is useful for U.S interest in this region ... that's the reason why U.S need us in Cold War, the same reason they also can betray others for their interest with China.



No its not its problem for the people of the region there is no good thing about your just causing trouble trying to be other USSR


----------



## cnleio

Zero_wing said:


> No its not its problem for the people of the region there is no good thing about your just causing trouble trying to be other USSR


LOL ... the nation u mentioned here, ever ally nations with U.S in WWII and China ever ally with U.S in Cold War. I had said, if necessary U.S will be friend with Russia and China for their interests in this region, they won't war with Russia or China for other small nations, coz that against American interests and reduce U.S power in the world.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zero_wing

cnleio said:


> LOL ... the nation u mentioned here, ever ally nations with U.S in WWII and China ever ally with U.S in Cold War. I had said, if necessary U.S will be friend with Russia and China for their interests in this region, they won't war with Russia or China for other small nations, coz that against American interests and reduce U.S power in the world.



Wow so that excellently but with chinese characters i dont care about your country's dream of being a super power but as long hurt others its our business no amount of justification is enough to repeat the past just to be like them knowing what they did to get there.


----------



## gambit

cnleio said:


> Nothing new here ... just look back what U.S help during CCP-KMT Civil War, North-South Vietnam War, Russia-Georgia conflict, West-East Ukraine conflict, ISIS in Iraqi ... sometimes the U.S promise just b@llsh!t, they might help u as long as not directly conflict with Russia or China. U.S can betray some small nation at any time for their interests in this region, if they feel necessary even can make friends with their rival like China at any time.


What can China offer US so that we will 'betray' Japan or South Korea ? Women ? 

The US have been enforcing the freedom of navigation in the Asian sea lanes for decades. The benefits have always been available to those willing to part take. Now China is threatening -- or at least the perception of -- taking all those opportunities away. So what can China offer US so that we would not send a couple of aircraft carriers to the SCS ?


----------



## cnleio

gambit said:


> What can China offer US so that we will 'betray' Japan or South Korea ? Women ?
> 
> The US have been enforcing the freedom of navigation in the Asian sea lanes for decades. The benefits have always been available to those willing to part take. Now China is threatening -- or at least the perception of -- taking all those opportunities away. So what can China offer US so that we would not send a couple of aircraft carriers to the SCS ?


Well ... let us see when U.S leading S.Korea and Japan in SCS ? and when U.S A.C back to SCS ? Even ur A.C in SCS, then attack China islands or nothing happen ?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## gambit

70U63 said:


> But you forgot that most of the countries in the region are not able or indirectly don't practice democratic system as per western standard.
> Democratic system is not the answer to everything. They (those in the region) can't even agree among themselves before unite to fight China, what do you expect them to do?
> And seriously, who need war in the region? they are so fxcking poor and still want to go war?


We do not care if they are democratic or not. The threat from China is still the same for all. You misunderstood the point of the article. Am not surprise. The Chinese and their supporters are not used to thinking.



cnleio said:


> Well ... let us see when U.S leading S.Korea and Japan in SCS ? and when U.S A.C back to SCS ?


It is already happening. The Aussies are making challenge flights. Other Asian navies will follow. Your China will blink.


----------



## cnleio

gambit said:


> It is already happening. The Aussies are making challenge flights. Other Asian navies will follow. Your China will blink.


HA ... that's very interesting, i thought some nation would attack China to stop Chinese building those artificial islands ... seems nothing happen, never mind building continue !

My suggestion is, U.S should hurry up coz China building in SCS will finish soon in 2016, then equipments & aircrafts will launch on islands.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## gambit

cnleio said:


> HA ... that's very interesting, i thought some nation would attack China to stop Chinese building those artificial islands ... seems nothing happen, never mind building continue !


Attack for what ? As long as we can ignore China's claim to the entirety of the SCS, those islands are next to useless. But the moment China is foolish enough to shoot at anyone in international airspace or sea lane, those islands will be rendered uninhabitable.


----------



## cnleio

gambit said:


> Attack for what ? As long as we can ignore China's claim to the entirety of the SCS, those islands are next to useless. But the moment China is foolish enough to shoot at anyone in international airspace or sea lane, those islands will be rendered uninhabitable.


What a fool idea ! U think China spent money to build three 3,000m runway on islands is just for JOKE ?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## gambit

cnleio said:


> What a fool idea ! U think China spent money to build three 3,000m runway on islands is just for JOKE ?


If they are not jokes now, when we are done with them, they will be. Even the Chinese citizens will be laughing at their own leadership.


----------



## cnleio

gambit said:


> If they are not jokes now, when we are done with them, they will be. Even the Chinese citizens will be laughing at their own leadership.


I had said before, China is a good student for U.S and U.S is a good teacher for us ... China is doing what U.S ever did during seaborne trade & politics. And China is not the only country in this region building the artificial islands, so American double standard is unwork for China, especially U.S built artificial islands too.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Daniel808

Zero_wing said:


> Ya right and china is better oh please who can say one thing and does other is no better





cnleio said:


> My point, it's China is useful for U.S interest in this region ... that's the reason why U.S need us in Cold War, the same reason they also can betray others for their interest with China.



U.S abandon Taiwan and then South Vietnam for Relationship with China.
In the future, maybe U.S will abandon Pinoy too for Relationship with China. Who knows?
History tell the Future. History never lie.

Pinoy must be more Independent. not too much depends to uncle u.s.a. You don't know, when the uncle will left you alone in the future for his interests. No one knows.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Daniel808

Zero_wing said:


> Man other false flager



Ignorant ! How pathetic are you !

About flag, I am born, growth, and live in Indonesia. and also I just can speak Indonesian language. besides english of course. wanna speak bahasa Indonesia with me?
What's wrong with that?

*Is there a rule for Indonesian must Support U.S.A, little pinoy, and must Hate China? Answer me !?

*
You just ENVY with China Achievement in all sectors.
Your country is ...... I don't know what to say, too Sad to say it in here.
Your country Air Force is a bunch of ...... Ah, enough enough. I don't want make Pinoy Cry in here.
Your Rusting Navy is ....... Okay okay, enough enough.


My advice : just stay in your Wet Dream, the real world is too hard for you.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## yugocrosrb95

Daniel808 said:


> Ignorant ! How pathetic are you Pinoy
> 
> About flag, I am born, growth, and live in Indonesia. and also I just can speak Indonesian language. besides english of course. wanna speak bahasa Indonesia with me?
> What's wrong with that?
> 
> *Is there a rule for Indonesian must Support U.S.A, little pinoy, and must Hate China? Answer me !?
> 
> 
> You just ENVY with China Achievement in all sectors.
> Your country is ...... I don't know what to say, too Sad to say it in here.
> Your country Air Force is a bunch of ...... Ah, enough enough. I don't want make Pinoy Cry in here.
> Your Rusting Navy is ....... Okay okay, enough enough. *
> 
> 
> My advice : just stay in your Wet Dream, the real world is too hard for you pinoy.



His country does not put priority on army, more on people and has vast potential.

If Philippines decides to give 2% of GDP for military then that would be 6 to 7 billion USD while currently Philippines army operates at 3 billion USD so it would give about 3 to 4 billion USD for upgrades...


----------



## apiSubmarine

South China sea should be a long term defiance status with millitary race.

*

*


----------



## terranMarine

Storage tank in progress

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## TaiShang

Impressive development effort by China is about to bear fruits in the Spratlys.

Chins is to ensure that the region remains safe and China's national interests are protected.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cnleio

Playing tennis in SCS

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## Rechoice

*US B-52 bombers fly near disputed South China Sea islands*

13 November 2015

.





The B-52 bomber planes, seen here in a file picture, continued the mission despite warnings from the Chinese

Two US B-52 bomber planes have flown near artificial islands built by China in disputed areas of the South China Sea, the Pentagon has said.

Their mission continued despite being warned by Chinese ground controllers.

The incident comes ahead of a visit by US President Barack Obama to a summit in Manila next week, which China's President Xi Jinping will also attend.

China is locked in maritime territorial disputes with several neighbours in the South China Sea.

It claims a large swathe of the resource-rich area and has been aggressively reclaiming land and building facilities on reefs, which the US and others oppose.

The US has said it plans to demonstrate its freedom of navigation principle in the sea, which challenges what it deems to be "excessive claims" to the world's oceans and airspace.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## hirobo2

I'm afraid the USA is being used (or maybe they agreed to it for later compensation). USA is now backing off their "freedom of navigation" patrol I see. Want to know the reason why?

Think anyone in the world would give a hoot about some artificial islands if it weren't for the US "interference" so the story makes it in the news? It's the best marketing campaign ever! China is trying to market the islands to the world w the help of the US, for whatever reason we don't know yet.

Think anyone would be stupid enough to build stationary aircraft carriers that are essentially sitting ducks?

Though if you want my opinion, these islands may have something to do with that civilian cruise ship that China is trying to build that they claim will be 3X the size of the Titanic...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## hirobo2

Btw, these man-made islands are so cool. It's the first time i heard of such things on such a scale.

Part of me wonder why Japan never did such first. Japan always like to be first in everything...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## applesauce

hirobo2 said:


> Btw, these man-made islands are so cool. It's the first time i heard of such things on such a scale.
> 
> Part of me wonder why Japan never did such first. Japan always like to be first in everything...



many counties have build artificial islands, japan actually has some of the largest. the difference here is, the area where islands are located is disputed, the number of islands being built at once, and the speed which china is doing it.



Rechoice said:


> *US B-52 bombers fly near disputed South China Sea islands*



the US has said the overflight is actually an accident.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## hirobo2

applesauce said:


> many counties have build artificial islands, japan actually has some of the largest. the difference here is, the area where islands are located is disputed, the number of islands being built at once, and the speed which china is doing it.
> 
> 
> 
> the US has said the overflight is actually an accident.



This whole islands building fiasco is intriguing. Remember Nintendo? Late to the gaming industry, then dominating it. They say the Devil was the first born child.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## gpit

Collier's world atlas and gazetteer 1947. It indicates clearly Paracel Islands (Xisha) belongs to China.






This atlas is published by _P.F. Collier & Son: Collier's - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia _

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Rechoice

World Atlas 1827 is printed by Philippe Vandermaelen in Europa, Paracels is part of Vietnam (Cochinchina).








applesauce said:


> the US has said the overflight is actually an accident



It does mean that, B 52 is freely flying on Spratly Islands, US didn't cared that Chinese has made a fake Islands there.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## fadine

The order of Quang Ngai province’s governor on sending boats and soldiers to
Paracel Islands under the court’s instruction in 1834.





Vietnamese soldiers salute the flag on Paracel Islands.(1939)





A Vietnam radio transmitter-receiver station on Paracel Islands in 1939.





Vietnam’s sovereignty stele on Paracel Islands in 1930.





The office of the Saigon Regime on Paracel Islands before 1974.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## oprih

Rechoice said:


> World Atlas 1827 is printed by Philippe Vandermaelen in Europa, Paracels is part of Vietnam (Cochinchina).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It does mean that, B 52 is freely flying on Spratly Islands, US didn't cared that Chinese has made a fake Islands there.


Correction, the B-52 didn't dare to fly over the Chinese islands, they only pass through international airspace.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Elkanah

Just read that fiery cross now has what looks like a sports stadium on it and Johnson south has lots of green areas on it now. Has anyone seen these new pictures? If so can you post them please?


----------



## Rechoice

oprih said:


> Correction, the B-52 didn't dare to fly over the Chinese islands, they only pass through international airspace.



yoke.

B-52 did it in 2 mile over such fake islands made by Chinese.


----------



## applesauce

Rechoice said:


> It does mean that, B 52 is freely flying on Spratly Islands, US didn't cared that Chinese has made a fake Islands there.



Everyone knows the US stance

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Elkanah

The US stance is rather a simple one that any major power would take, China's stance is equally as simple politics is power relations plain and simple, as admittedly my own opinion the long term political relationship between the US and China will eventually lead to Chinese control of the South China Sea it is physically and financially impractical for the US to stop it they can delay it but not stop it. It's not really right but it is the truth

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Zero_wing

Daniel808 said:


> Ignorant ! How pathetic are you !
> 
> About flag, I am born, growth, and live in Indonesia. and also I just can speak Indonesian language. besides english of course. wanna speak bahasa Indonesia with me?
> What's wrong with that?
> 
> *Is there a rule for Indonesian must Support U.S.A, little pinoy, and must Hate China? Answer me !?
> 
> *
> You just ENVY with China Achievement in all sectors.
> Your country is ...... I don't know what to say, too Sad to say it in here.
> Your country Air Force is a bunch of ...... Ah, enough enough. I don't want make Pinoy Cry in here.
> Your Rusting Navy is ....... Okay okay, enough enough.
> 
> 
> My advice : just stay in your Wet Dream, the real world is too hard for you.



Or really yet the economy failing etc ya your right am so jealous ha ya right oh please give me a break why should i be jealous of a country that is killing its self you people have relavant post to add you do crap like these then if you get peg to corner you cry faul you people are the ones who's pathetic so save your ignorance to your own kind you adopates


----------



## ahojunk

Some black and white images dated Dec 22, 2015. Enjoy!
These are for Huayang, Subi and Yongshu Islands.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Viet

wanting to share some nice pictures of a vietnam hold spratly island in the East VN Sea. Enjoy!
Hoping we soon start reclaiming lands, creating some 100 islands.





The best time to visit Truong Sa is period from May to July, because this is the time that sunshine will be yellow as pouring honey on islands.





Red flag with yellow star on a blue sky at the welcome gate on Truong Sa archipelago.





A corner of beautiful and romantic Truong Sa with white sand, fresh plants and clean water.





Outstanding lighthouse on Son Ca island looks as a simple picture of landscape but attractive enough to captivate tourists’ hearts.





Son Ca island is peacefully lying on sea.





Sea along Song Tu Tay Island





One corner of Song Tu Tay embankment- modern beauty like other coastal corners of beach cities of Nha Trang or Vung Tau.





Here, light towers shine at night

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

Long rows of Tournefortia argentea along white sand bring bright beauty for coastal embankment..




Tournefortia argentea is blossoming on islands





Tournefortia argentea, tropical almond, etc. create a simple and peaceful picture





The innocence of children on the Sinh Ton Island





In nearly all parts of the sinking and floating islands, it is easy to see sea water and sky color stretching and endless blue.





Solar energy system is used here





At Truong Sa archipelago, the sea water is too clear to see schools of colorful fish swimming.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

A corner of balcony on the island looks poetic with wind chimes made of snail shells.





Visiting any island of Truong Sa archipelago, you can easily see modern solar energy systems.





Solar batteries and wind fans are put into operation to ensure total electric power 5,167Kwh/day, 24/24 supply for both soldiers and residents in Truong Sa.





Under strong sunshine, a technical team is still working to maintain clean power system.





Truong Sa, at night, is shimmering under light like a busy inland cities.





Between red sunset, Truong Sa is nice and fanciful enough to captivate anyone who has a chance to visit Truong Sa archipelago of Vietnam.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ahojunk

Colour picture of Subi dated 21 Dec 2015.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Elkanah

Very impressive


----------



## TaiShang

ahojunk said:


> Colour picture of Subi dated 21 Dec 2015.
> 
> View attachment 282406



Zhubi is getting bigger day by day.



Viet said:


> A corner of balcony on the island looks poetic with wind chimes made of snail shells.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Visiting any island of Truong Sa archipelago, you can easily see modern solar energy systems.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Solar batteries and wind fans are put into operation to ensure total electric power 5,167Kwh/day, 24/24 supply for both soldiers and residents in Truong Sa.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Under strong sunshine, a technical team is still working to maintain clean power system.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truong Sa, at night, is shimmering under light like a busy inland cities.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Between red sunset, Truong Sa is nice and fanciful enough to captivate anyone who has a chance to visit Truong Sa archipelago of Vietnam.



None of the images are visible, bro (earlier posts, as well). Not sure it is only me...

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## TaiShang

Yongshu Island, China

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## ahojunk

This is perhaps the plan for Zhongjian (Triton) Island in the Paracels Island group?





From my limited Chinese, this is what I gather:-
Top area reserved for runway
East - retain as is
South - Naval port, and civilian port

1. Excavate by military, civilian harbor 1.5 sq km.
2. New reclamation, 1.5 sq km.
3. Unoccupied 1.5 sq km, new land

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## biendong

Vietnam Spratly Island.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

*3901，CCG's flagship in the SCS *

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## cirr

Reclaiming land at Zhaoshu Island in the Paracel Islands

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cirr

Xishazhou（West Sandbank）in the Paracel Islands

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Elkanah

China certainly seems to have a clearly defined program to enhance all of its SCS possessions really impressive.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ahojunk

Elkanah said:


> China certainly seems to have a clearly defined program to enhance all of its SCS possessions really impressive.



@Elkanah 

Yes, indeed. China is now executing its plan in the SCS. I have to agree, it's really impressive.

China is the master of developing infrastructure. 

This can be seen by the speedy and efficient development of their HSR, expressways and metro systems.

No other country can even come close!

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ahojunk

A couple of pictures of Qilian Yu (Seven Islets) in the Paracel Islands.





Starting from the top left corner, West Sand Island, Tree Island, then followed by the Seven Islets. 
The large island at the bottom is Yongxing (Woody) Island.






The very top is Tree Island. The rest are the Seven Islets.

Most of them are natural islands.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## biendong

.
*Vietnam protests China’s pilot flight to illegally-built airport in Truong Sa*

Foreign Ministry’s spokesman Le Hai Binh has expressed Vietnam’s resolute protest against China’s pilot flight to an illegally-built airport on Chu Thap (Fiery Cross) reef in Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelago. 

He made the statement in Hanoi on January 2, the same day when China committed the action. 

“China’s above-mentioned action seriously violated Vietnam’s sovereignty over Truong Sa archipelago and went counter to the common perception of the two countries’ leaders, the agreement on basic principles guiding the settlement of Vietnam – China issues at sea and the spirit of the 2012 Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the East Sea,” he said.

It has undermined peace and stability in the East Sea, eroded bilateral political trust and negatively impacted the neighbourliness and sentiments between the two peoples, he added. 

The spokesperson stated that Vietnam asks China to immediately end, not to repeat such an action and take practical and specific acts to contribute to maintaining peace, stability, security, maritime and aviation safety and freedom in the East Sea. 

The same day, a representative from the Vietnamese Foreign Ministry presented a diplomatic note to Chinese embassy counterpart opposing China’s action.
VNA

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ahojunk

Yongshu Jiao is Fiery Cross Island.
Looks like the airstrip is ready for civilian use.
------
China's Test Flight to Yongshu Jiao "within Sovereignty": FM
2016-01-03 04:00:23 | Xinhua Web | Editor: Niu Honglin

A test flight to a newly-built airfield on a South China Sea reef was a matter "completely within China's sovereignty," a Foreign Ministry spokesperson said late Saturday evening.

Spokeswoman Hua Chunying said China has finished building an airfield on Yongshu Jiao of China's Nansha Islands.

The Chinese government used a civil aircraft to conduct the flight in order to test whether the airfield facilities meet civil aviation standards, she said, in response to reported objections of Vietnam's foreign ministry.

"China has indisputable sovereignty over the Nansha Islands and their adjacent waters. China will not accept the unfounded accusation from the Vietnamese side," Hua said.

At present, the relations between China and Vietnam maintain a momentum of development. China hopes Vietnam can work accordingly to achieve "sustainable, healthy and stable" development of bilateral ties, Hua said.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ahojunk

Picture of Meiji Island taken on the first day of 2016!
The airstrip is seen on the north west. On the south west, there are two entrances to the lagoon.
There are lots of ships in the lagoon.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## biendong



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Ludovic

It seems USA wants more and more a ww3 and everything is good to increase the problems everywhere


----------



## cnleio

biendong said:


> .
> *Vietnam protests China’s pilot flight to illegally-built airport in Truong Sa*
> 
> Foreign Ministry’s spokesman Le Hai Binh has expressed Vietnam’s resolute protest against China’s pilot flight to an illegally-built airport on Chu Thap (Fiery Cross) reef in Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelago.
> 
> He made the statement in Hanoi on January 2, the same day when China committed the action.
> 
> “China’s above-mentioned action seriously violated Vietnam’s sovereignty over Truong Sa archipelago and went counter to the common perception of the two countries’ leaders, the agreement on basic principles guiding the settlement of Vietnam – China issues at sea and the spirit of the 2012 Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the East Sea,” he said.
> 
> It has undermined peace and stability in the East Sea, eroded bilateral political trust and negatively impacted the neighbourliness and sentiments between the two peoples, he added.
> 
> The spokesperson stated that Vietnam asks China to immediately end, not to repeat such an action and take practical and specific acts to contribute to maintaining peace, stability, security, maritime and aviation safety and freedom in the East Sea.
> 
> The same day, a representative from the Vietnamese Foreign Ministry presented a diplomatic note to Chinese embassy counterpart opposing China’s action.
> VNA


They will be deployed in SCS, Vietnam can't do nothing or say byebye to current economy.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## biendong

cnleio said:


> They will be deployed in SCS, Vietnam can't do nothing or say byebye to current economy.



PLA jet crashes killing two pilots | gbtimes.com

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ahojunk

This stuff is dated 2013/04/02.

This is almost 3 years old.

Moreover the incident is in Shandong, it has nothing to do with the South China Sea.

Why are you wasting electrons by posting old stuff here?


----------



## cnleio

biendong said:


> PLA jet crashes killing two pilots | gbtimes.com


For China, it's not a big deal coz Chinese aviation industry can produce double not need support from foreign ... and it's a normal case for aircraft crash. The gap is like when someone buy 100x foreign fighters, China produced 1,000x fighters in home, fortunately we just crashed few not most ... also cheaper than some F-22 crashed, we can afford the cost.


----------



## Elkanah

It is also important to note that military plane crashes occur in even the US mighty air force of which there were several in December 2015 so I am unsure what a jet crash in China plaaf is meant to convey to the readers here ?


----------



## Elkanah

Also of note the entire F22 stealth fleet was grounded for a while in 2015 because of safety issues. So again I fail to comprehend the relavent point that is trying to be made ? It would be helpful to me at least if you clarified the the relavence of a Chinese jet crash to the overall issue of the South China Sea ?


----------



## Elkanah

As a non Asian interested in the South China Sea disputes I must say it is certainly good that the Vietnamese and Chinese governments are a great deal more rational and sober minded than some of the posters here. Just my opinion.


----------



## Elkanah

It's rather silly to dismiss the Chinese the way you are they remain the ONLY nation to recover from European imperial divine right and it is my hope as a Caribbean man that Vietnam or the phillippenes don't derail China's lead in freeing this world from European domination

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## biendong

.
*Japan, US voice concern over China’s test flight*
VNA MONDAY, JANUARY 04, 2016 - 16:38:18

*Hanoi (VNA) *– Japan and the US have expressed their concern over China’s testing landing of a plane on an airstrip illegally built on Chu Thap (Fiery Cross) Reef in Vietnam’s Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelago.

Japan’s Kyodo News Agency quoted Foreign Minister Fumio Kishida as saying at a press briefing on January 4 that Japan is gravely concerned about China's act, which is a unilateral change of the status quo in the East Sea as well as the attempt to make Beijing's massive and fast-paced land reclamation work in the seas “a fait accompli.”

Japan cannot accept the act which is escalating tensions in the region, he said, noting that Japan will continue to cooperate with other countries concerned to protect the freedom of the seas.

The US State Department’s Spokeswoman Pooja Jhunjhunwala was also quoted by Reuters on January 2 as saying that the flight has exacerbated tensions.

She called on relevant sides to actively reduce tensions by refraining from unilateral actions that undermine regional stability, and taking steps to create space for meaningful diplomatic solutions to emerge.

Responding to China’s test flight, Vietnamese Foreign Minister Spokesperson Le Hai Binh on January 2 said the act seriously violates Vietnam’s sovereignty over Truong Sa archipelago and runs counter to the common perception reached by the two countries’ high-ranking leaders, the agreement on basic principles guiding the settlement of Vietnam – China issues at sea and the spirit of the 2002 Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the East Sea.

It has undermined peace and stability in the East Sea, eroded bilateral political trust and negatively impacted the neighbourliness and good sentiments between the two peoples, he added.

Vietnam resolutely protests against China’s pilot flight and asks the country to immediately end, not to repeat such an action and take practical and specific acts to contribute to maintaining peace, stability, security, maritime and aviation safety and freedom in the East Sea, Binh said.-VNA
East Sea

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Martian2

*China's South China Sea helipads enable anti-submarine warfare.*

Interestingly, China's islands in the South China Sea are being constructed with helipads (see IHS Jane's caption below). This allows China to conduct anti-submarine warfare with its Z-9C sub-hunting helicopters.
----------

South China Sea tensions surge as China lands plane on artificial island| Reuters

"The runway is complete with markings installed, including helipads, suggesting a potential for use in the near future."





----------

Chinese Z-9C Anti-submarine warfare (ASW) Helicopter | Chinese Military Review

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## cnleio

biendong said:


> Raw material for production progress to export only.
> 
> Fake products made in chine is destroyed by authorities looks like this.


I just see China J-20 stealth fighter beginning mass produce after 5-year prototypes flight, those artificial islands to finish soon,China start building third aircraft carrier, built 14x Aegis-like DDGs to build bigger ... our Vietnamese friend no big changes still good at trolling China.Very Well !

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## GS Zhou

biendong said:


> Raw material for production progress to export only.
> 
> Fake products made in chine is destroyed by authorities looks like this.




China's raw material export to Vietnam 2014 was USD 1,693 million, or 2.66% of China's total export to Vietnam.
China's raw material import from Vietnam 2014 was USD 4,623 million, or 23.23% of China's total import from Vietnam.
China's trade surplus to Vietnam of *Machinery, Electronics and Transportation Equipment *2014 was USD 12,863 million, which equivalent to
*38x of VN Government's spending on Science and Technology* (7702 billion dongs, 2013)
*1.7x of Vietnam Government's spending on Education and Training* (168692 billion dongs, 2013)

 source: World Bank, General Statistics Office Of Vietnam

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Martian2

The U.S. Navy's Master Plan to Dominate Russia and China | The National Interest Blog

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## cnleio

More test flight, Boeing 737 and Airbus A320 ???

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Martian2

*Huge Chinese runways at Yongshu Island (Fiery Cross Reef)*

China has been building new runways on its South China Sea islands. An on-site look reveals the gigantic size of the runways. It's a triple-wide design that can accommodate the simultaneous launch of three side-by-side Boeing 737s (or Airbus 320s).

I have included a map of the location for Yongshu Island at the bottom.

中国永暑礁机场试飞成功 两架客机接连降落(图)_即时新闻_新闻中心_北京晨报网





----------





_"Approximate ranges of PLA aircraft [J-10 (red), J-11 (yellow), JH-7 (green), and H-6 (light blue)] from Fiery Cross Reef. Adapted from the map included with the USCC Report cited earlier."_

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## biendong

.
*McCain Blasts Lack of US Patrols in South China Sea*







Reuters
January 04, 2016 6:46 PM

WASHINGTON—
The chairman of the influential U.S. Senate Armed Services Committee on Monday criticized the Obama administration for delaying further "freedom of navigation" patrols within 12 nautical miles of islands built by China in the South China Sea.

Senator John McCain said in a statement that the lack of U.S. action was allowing China to continue to "pursue its territorial ambitions" in the region, most recently by landing a plane on a man-made island in the Spratly Islands archipelago on Saturday.

McCain said the lack of additional U.S. patrols last year was "disappointing yet hardly surprising." He said the Obama administration was "either unable to manage the complexities of interagency national security decision-making or simply too risk averse to do what is necessary to safeguard the rules-based order in the Asia-Pacific."

Analysts say China's increasing military presence in the disputed sea could ultimately lead to a Beijing-controlled air defense zone, ratcheting up tensions with other claimants and the United States.

U.S. State Department spokesman John Kirby on Monday said China's first landing of a plane on an island in the disputed region "raises tensions and threatens regional stability."

"We again call for all claimants to halt land reclamation and further development of new facilities and militarization on their outposts and instead focus on reaching agreement on acceptable behavior in disputed areas," he told reporters.

U.S. officials remain committed to carrying out further "freedom of navigation" patrols near the dispute islands, but are still debating the timing of another patrol, said one U.S. defense official, who was not authorized to speak publicly.

"The question is do we want to escalate the situation and ratchet it up?" said the official.

U.S. Defense Secretary Ash Carter told McCain in a letter dated Dec. 21 that the Navy conducted a previous patrol in October to be "lawful under all possible scenarios" given ambiguities about whether certain islands in the region are entitled to a territorial sea. He said the United States would continue to "fly, sail and operate wherever international law allows."

Carter said the Oct. 27 patrol included a continuous transit consistent with what is known as the "right of innocent passage," which applies only in a territorial sea, and with "freedom of navigation," which applies beyond those limits.

At the time, critics said the destroyer Lassen's decision to conduct an "innocent passage" by skipping military drills could have actually reinforced China's claim to sovereignty over the islands.

Such passage can only take place in waters belonging to another country.

Carter said the patrol was not meant to challenge any claims of sovereignty, but to challenge attempts by the countries involved to restrict navigation rights and to require prior notification of transits.

He said U.S. officials did not notify any of the countries prior to the transit patrol.

Washington argues that islands China has built up in the South China Sea are not entitled to a territorial limit under international law as they used to be underwater at high tide.

China argues that the islands would be used mainly for civilian use, such as coast guard activity and fishing research.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ahojunk

Well, this is the only way for John McCain to be still relevant in US politics, i.e. make some noise every now and then.

------
Mischief Island a couple of days ago, dated 5 Jan 2016.

This is a clearer picture, not much clouds. The airstrip is quite prominent.






It won't be too long when another Chinese civilian plane lands here. 

It is very difficult for another country to build an airport on dry land within 2 years but China manufactured one in the open sea.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## killmkys



Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## killmkys



Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## 64:0

Xi Sha(Paracel Islands)

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## GS Zhou

killmkys said:


> View attachment 285657


hope one day I could spend one night on these beautiful islands.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## dichoi

64:0 said:


> Xi Sha(Paracel Islands)



false flag.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## GS Zhou

dichoi said:


> false flag.


a typical void/meaningless comment from Viet.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## ahojunk

GS Zhou said:


> hope one day I could spend one night on these beautiful islands.


.
I will wait for other entertainment facilities and a casino first before I plan to spend some nights there ... 

However, IIRC I don't think China will allow non Chinese citizens to visit these islands.

There goes my dream. 

------------------------
Some pictures of Subi Island & Yongshu Island dated Jan 8, 2016. I think these are slightly clearer than the ones just posted by killmkys. Please feel free to disagree, but I will post anyway.





Subi Island. Lots of construction activities on the northern rim.





Yongshu Island. The airstrip is very prominent. Last Saturday, a plane landed. A few days ago, on 6 Jan, two civilian planes (from China Southern and Hainan Airlines) landed on the airstrip.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## cnleio

ahojunk said:


> .
> I will wait for other entertainment facilities and a casino first before I plan to spend some nights there ...
> 
> However, IIRC I don't think China will allow non Chinese citizens to visit these islands.
> 
> There goes my dream.
> 
> ------------------------
> Some pictures of Subi Island & Yongshu Island dated Jan 8, 2016. I think these are slightly clearer than the ones just posted by killmkys. Please feel free to disagree, but I will post anyway.
> 
> View attachment 285689
> 
> Subi Island. Lots of construction activities on the northern rim.
> 
> View attachment 285690
> 
> Yongshu Island. The airstrip is very prominent. Last Saturday, a plane landed. A few days ago, on 6 Jan, two civilian planes (from China Southern and Hainan Airlines) landed on the airstrip.



8 in 1 islands map, the biggest r 3x unsink A.C in SCS











Let's say 'HELLO' to 10,000-ton China Coast Guard ship

Reactions: Positive Rating Positive Rating:
1 | Like Like:
11


----------



## ahojunk

cnleio said:


> 8 in 1 islands map, the biggest r 3x unsink A.C in SCS
> View attachment 285731
> 
> :


@cirr

Thanks for the great pictures. There are so many recently. It is difficult to keep up with them.

This one shows the 3 biggest Chinese islands in Nansha with the measurements of their runways.

All three runways are large, so we can expect to see more planes landing there soon.



cnleio said:


> 8 in 1 islands map, the biggest r 3x unsink A.C in SCS
> View attachment 285732
> 
> :



Taiping Island which used to be the biggest island in Nansha now looks tiny.

Also noticed that the southern part of Mischief Island is bigger than Chigua (Johnson south), Nanxun (Gaven) and Dongmen (Hughes). It's slightly smaller than Huayang (Cuateron).

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## CCP

cnleio said:


> Let's say 'HELLO' to 10,000-ton China Coast Guard ship
> View attachment 285734
> View attachment 285735
> View attachment 285736
> View attachment 285737
> View attachment 285738
> View attachment 285739



12,000 ton

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## dichoi

GS Zhou said:


> a typical void/meaningless comment from Viet.



do you understand what do I mean ?


----------



## ahojunk

Picture of Yongshu Island dated 19 Nov 2015. On the south west end of the airstrip/runway, there are hangars. All arranged in a neat row!
Note the original platform structure is on the south side.

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## cnleio

ahojunk said:


> Picture of Yongshu Island dated 19 Nov 2015. On the south west end of the airstrip/runway, there are hangars. All arranged in a neat row!
> Note the original platform structure is on the south side.
> 
> View attachment 285915


Well ... such size aircraft hangar, obviously too small for airliner.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ahojunk

December 23, 2015 -
The first pure electric car arrived at Sansha City, Yongxing Island.
It is being tested out in a pilot operation and being evaluated.






Someone said it's a BAIC electric car.
Can't comment as I am not familiar with Chinese car brands.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## GS Zhou

ahojunk said:


> December 23, 2015 -
> The first pure electric car arrived at Sansha City, Yongxing Island.
> It is being tested out in a pilot operation and being evaluated.
> 
> View attachment 286003
> 
> 
> Someone said it's a BAIC electric car.
> Can't comment as I am not familiar with Chinese car brands.



Yes, its BAIC EV160. Pure electricity distance about 200km; retailing price about USD 14,000 (government EV subsidies deducted)

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ahojunk

Picture of the Seven islets and Yongxing Island dated Jan 9, 2016.
Tree Island is just off the NW corner.






Yongxing Island - dated Jan 9, 2016.
The harbor in the SW has been deepened.
Rocky Island is now joined to Yongxing Island, with reclamation still on-going.
Both ends of the runway have greenery.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## VNAF

New ship for *Vietnam Fisheries Resources Surveillance



*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## CCP

VNAF said:


> New ship for *Vietnam Fisheries Resources Surveillance
> 
> 
> 
> *

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## oprih

cnleio said:


> 8 in 1 islands map, the biggest r 3x unsink A.C in SCS
> View attachment 285731
> View attachment 285732
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let's say 'HELLO' to 10,000-ton China Coast Guard ship
> View attachment 285734
> View attachment 285735
> View attachment 285736
> View attachment 285737
> View attachment 285738
> View attachment 285739


Insane! Those islands are amazing!

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## ahojunk

A large ship spotted at Yongshu Island.






Could this be the Sansha No.1, the supply ship?

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## killmkys

subi reef

Reactions: Like Like:
16


----------



## Rechoice

.
*Fisheries trade union protests Chinese ships’ attacks on VN's boats*
VNA WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 13, 2016


*Hanoi (VNA)* - The Vietnam Fisheries Trade Union (VFTU) has vehemently opposed Chinese fishing boats attacking and pillaging Vietnamese fishing boats in Vietnam’s waters. 

According to the VFTU’s local chapters nationwide, especially those in the central region, Vietnamese fishing vessels operating in the country’s traditional fishing grounds have recently been attacked and robbed by Chinese ships, said a statement released on January 12 by the VFTU. 

These provoking actions, which were conducted in a continuous and systematic fashion, threatened safety of Vietnamese fishermen and cost them huge economic losses, the statement stressed.

These showed the Chinese side’s unwillingness and increased tensions in the East Sea, it added.

The VFTU asked Vietnam’s relevant agencies to take more measures to ensure safety for the fishermen and their assets during operations at sea. The agencies need to coordinate to promptly prevent and handle similar actions targeting the Vietnamese boats.

It also called on the fishermen to continue maintaining operations and providing support to each other while going fishing in the national waters and strictly abide by relevant legal regulations of Vietnam and neighbouring countries.-VNA

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

killmkys said:


> subi reef

Reactions: Like Like:
11


----------



## Tiqiu

Road network on China Yongshu Island.

Some part of the road is elevated, what's underneath?

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## Speeder 2

Tiqiu said:


> Road network on China Yongshu Island.
> 
> Some part of the road is elevated, what's underneath?




The road is elevated?

High Speed Train!

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Rechoice

.
*Chinese planes’ unannounced operations break int’l regulations*
VNA SATURDAY, JANUARY 09, 2016


*Hanoi (VNA)* – Chinese airplanes’ unannounced operations in the Ho Chi Minh Flight Information Region (FIR) in the last few days violated the International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO)’s regulations and imperiled aviation safety in the region, Director of the Civil Aviation Authority of Vietnam (CAAV) Lai Xuan Thanh said. 

From January 1 to early January 8, the Chinese side conducted 46 flights to the Ho Chi Minh FIR. The flights interfered with the air traffic service (ATS) routes L625, N892 (flight levels from FL135 to FL460), and route M771 (flight levels from FL250 to FL460), from the reporting point FONA to ALDAS. 

The ICAO requires airplanes to report their positions when they fly to such points. 

The CAAV said the area that the Chinese planes operated contains a great number of international air routes. These planes crossed many different routes without any notice about their flights or contact with the flight operating agency. 

That seriously imperiled aviation safety in the region, the authority stressed. 

Director Thanh said that on late January 8, the CAAV sent another document to the ICAO in which it reiterated that the Chinese planes infringed the ICAO regulations. 

The CAAV requested the ICAO to take measures and solutions to prevent countries from doing activities that threaten regional and international aviation safety. 

He added that his authority will also give notification to neighbouring countries so that they could coordinate and raise a voice against operations endangering aviation safety. 

Earlier, the CAAV had submitted a document to the ICAO to report some planes operating in the Ho Chi Minh FIR without any contact with the air traffic control agency as internationally regulated.-VNA

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Tiqiu

So much warm feeling and love in the air on Chinese Yongshu island.

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## AndrewJin

Tiqiu said:


> So much warm feeling and love in the air on Chinese Yongshu island.


Sweet!

*Sansha to have full WIFI coverage this year*
The file photo shows the Yongxing School in Sansha. [Photo/chinanews.com]






Sansha city in Hainan province will start offering civil flight services and have full wifi coverage in 2016, its deputy mayor Feng Wenhai said Thursday.

Feng announced at his work report a series of measures for 2016 to improve the city's transportation and infrastructure to the local legislature.

Feng said this year the city will open civil aviation service at military-civilian airports like Yongxing airport, study the possibility of building new supply ships including the Sansha No 2, ensure all the inhabited islands and reefs to have practical piers, and start construction of simple wharfs for uninhabited islands and reefs.

"The city will complete construction of seabed optical cable and put it into use and provide access to WIFI to all inhabited islands and reefs. The city will also explore the possibility of involvement of social capital in its infrastructure construction," said Feng.

A detention house will be put into use in 2016 for the city and construction of courts and other judicial organs will be sped up. A standard court will be built in Yongxing Island with construction of a police ship beginning this year.

Sansha, which administers the island groups around Xisha, Zhongsha and Nansha and the surrounding waters of the South China Sea, celebrated its third birthday in late July. Local authorities are still trying to boost the city's transportation infrastructure, and further improve its function as a center of government. A number of projects have also been launched to improve living conditions on Yongxing Island and the neighboring islets.

Reactions: Like Like:
12


----------



## Rechoice

.
*Vietnam resolutely rejects Chinese spokesman’s viewpoints*
VNA TUESDAY, JANUARY 12, 2016 - 2

*Hanoi (VNA)* – Vietnam resolutely rejects the viewpoints in the Chinese foreign ministry spokesman’s statement on January 11 regarding Chinese planes’ flights to an illegally built airstrip on Chu Thap (Fiery Cross) Reef in Vietnam’s Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelago.

Spokesman for the Vietnamese Ministry of Foreign Affairs Le Hai Binh made the remark on January 12, reiterating Vietnam’s indisputable sovereignty over Truong Sa as well as Hoang Sa (Paracel) archipelago. 

In terms of China’s recent flights, as the Civil Aviation Authority of Vietnam has repeatedly said, the Ho Chi Minh Flight Information Region’s management agency did not receive any notifications of flight plans from China as the country stated. 

When a representative of the Chinese Embassy in Hanoi announced to a representative of the Vietnamese Foreign Ministry on December 30, 2015, that Chinese civil planes would conduct flights to Fiery Cross Reef, Vietnam immediately objected to, and demanded China cancel that action, Binh noted. 

China declaring the flights to Fiery Cross Reef its own “national aviation activities” is actually aimed at asserting the country’s unfounded sovereignty claim over Truong Sa archipelago, which seriously infringes Vietnam’s sovereignty over the chain of islands, he added. 

The spokesman said China’s flights to Fiery Cross Reef, under any name, affected aviation security, safety and freedom over the East Sea and ran counter to international regulations, including the 1944 Chicago Convention (Convention on International Civil Aviation) and the annexes on rules of flights in international airspace, especially Annex 2 and 11. 

“Once again, Vietnam demands China stop flights to Fiery Cross Reef, not conduct further actions that violate Vietnam’s sovereignty, and practically contribute to maintaining peace and stability in the region as well as security, safety and freedom of navigation and aviation in the East Sea,” he stressed.-VNA

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ahojunk

Picture of Meiji Island dated Jan 8, 2016.

It's runway is only 2,644m in length, shorter than the other runways.

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## ahojunk

A close-up picture of the southern part of Meiji Island.

This part is quite massive, it is almost the size of Huayang Island.

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## ahtan_china

dichoi said:


> Stubborn Chinese aggressor made troubles in East Sea of Vietnam.
> 
> Link: Trung Quốc ngoan cố “khuấy sóng” Biển Đông | Thủ Tướng Nguyễn Tấn Dũng


Just a keyboard fighter

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## asia2000

Here are some more pictures for Mr. dichoi to practice his Photoshop skills.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## ahojunk

The progress at Sansha City, Yongxing Island as of Dec 15, 2015.





The changes are in red.

Comparison with the situation on June 27, 2015. Amazing development in less than 6 months!

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## dichoi

.
*Foreign experts criticise China’s actions in East Sea*
VNA THURSDAY, JANUARY 14, 2016 

*Hanoi (VNA) *– China’s recent test landing of planes on an airstrip illegally built on the Chu Thap (Fiery Cross) Reef in Vietnam’s Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelago has sparked concerns in the region, and around the world.

Many countries have officially raised their voices against China’s action, while scholars also expressed their viewpoints on whether to take the East Sea dispute to an international court.

Theresa Fallon, a senior associate at the European Institute of Asian Studies (EIAS), said China’s action has escalated tensions in the East Sea, which is considered one of the world’s “hottest disputed areas”.

China’s putting the runway into service directly relates to coastal countries, including Vietnam and the Philippines, she said.

According to the expert, by using civilian planes, China is trying to persuade the world that the reclaimed islands are being built for civil purposes.

Fallon, however, also noted her doubts about China’s intentions when Beijing increased its management of take-off and landing procedures on the Chu Thap Reef via radio operators.

She forecast that Beijing would continue to reclaim islands in the East Sea, improve its communication system, set up long-range radars and build houses for Chinese staff there.

China may also deploy navy destroyers and military planes on these islands once aeroplane hangars and fuel storage centres have been completed.

Fallon called on regional countries to help attract the wider attention of the international community and promote international law enforcement, in order to curb China’s actions.

She also suggested the European Union send observers to the Permanent Court of Arbitration (PCA) to assist the settlement of disputes in the East Sea.

Eric David, Director of the Centre of International Law under the Free University of Brussels, described China’s construction of the airstrip on the Fiery Cross Reef as an act to claim its sovereignty.

Therefore, concerned nations should send diplomatic notes to oppose China and affirm that China has no right to build runways on the islands unilaterally assumed by China to belong to the country, he said.

He also suggested the countries ask China to address sovereignty-related issues by legal measures.

On January 2 and 6, China conducted test flights on an airstrip illegally built on the Chu Thap Reef in Vietnam’s Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelago.

Responding to this act, Vietnamese Foreign Minister Spokesperson Le Hai Binh said the act seriously violates Vietnam’s sovereignty over Truong Sa archipelago and runs counter to the common perception reached by the two countries’ high-ranking leaders, the agreement on basic principles guiding the settlement of Vietnam – China issues at sea, and the spirit of the 2002 Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the East Sea.

It has undermined peace and stability in the East Sea, eroded bilateral political trust and negatively impacted the neighbourliness and good sentiment between the two peoples, he added.

Vietnam resolutely protests against China’s pilot flights and asks the country to immediately end, and not repeat such an action, and take practical and specific steps towards maintaining peace, stability, security, and maritime and aviation safety and freedom in the East Sea, Binh said.-VNA


----------



## killmkys

CCG3901,12000T,deployment in the South China Sea

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## AndrewJin

Jan 2016

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## dichoi

*Vietnam asks China to pull drilling rig out of undelineated area*
VNA TUESDAY, JANUARY 19, 2016 

*Hanoi (VNA)* – Vietnam has asked China not to conduct oil drilling and promptly pull its Haiyang Shiyou 981 drilling rig out of the mouth of the Gulf of Tonkin, Foreign Ministry’s spokesman Le Hai Binh said on January 19. 

In response to reporters’ queries about the operation of the Haiyang Shiyou 981 rig and Vietnam’s reaction, Binh said in the evening of January 16, 2016, the Haiyang Shiyou 981 moved to a position around 21.4 nautical miles to the east from the suggested equidistant boundary line between the two base lines of Vietnam and China. 

On January 18, a representative from the Vietnamese Foreign Ministry met a counterpart from the Chinese Embassy in Hanoi to raise Vietnam’s concern over China’s above-mentioned action, saying that it happened in the overlapping area between the continental shelves of Vietnam’s central region and China’s Hainan island which is yet to be delineated. 

Vietnam reserves its legitimate rights and interests in the area in accordance with international law, including the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea and related international realties, he stated.-VNA

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## VNAF

Đảo Trường Sa Lớn - Big Spratly island






Đảo Đá Lớn - _Discovery Great Reef



_

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## bobsm

*Taiwan uses water cannon to drive off Vietnamese boat*
While denying accusations in Vietnamese media that Taiwanese coastguards had enforced the law outside their territorial waters, the coastguard tried to keep the event low-profile

*Agence France-Presse*
Published 10:14 PM, January 25, 2016
Updated 10:14 PM, January 25, 2016





DISPUTE. Taiwan's coastguard (right) seen here using a water cannon to spray a Vietnamese fishing boat, some 2.5 nautical miles off Taiping Island in the disputed Spratlys in the South China Sea. Photo by Taiwan Coast Guard/AFP

TAIPEI, Taiwan – Taiwan's coastguard said Monday that one of its vessels used water cannon this month to drive off a Vietnamese fishing boat near disputed islands in the South China Sea.

Two Vietnamese fishing boats were sighted on January 6 some 2.5 nautical miles (around 4,600 meters) off Taiping Island, an Taiwan-administered islet in the Spratlys, the coastguard said in a statement.

The Spratly islands are also claimed in part or in whole by Vietnam, China, the Philippines, Malaysia and Brunei.

The two Taiwanese coastguard boats, which have been deployed there since December to replace smaller vessels, scrambled to drive off the Vietnamese boats.

One left while the second refused and instead attempted to zigzag. One coastguard vessel opened fire with water cannon because of fears it might be rammed, the statement said.

While denying accusations in Vietnamese media that Taiwanese coastguards had enforced the law outside their territorial waters, the coastguard tried to keep the event low-profile.

"That was a regular law-enforcement practice in a sensitive area," one coastguard official told AFP on condition of anonymity.

China is seen by other claimants as the biggest threat in the South China Sea.

The Philippines and Vietnam have complained that China is becoming increasingly aggressive in its actions in the area - such as harassing fishermen - and also through bullying diplomatic tactics.

As part of efforts to strengthen defense capabilities, Taiwan late last year inaugurated a solar-powered lighthouse, an expanded airstrip and a pier on Taiping Island.

http://www.rappler.com/world/regions/asia-pacific/120235-taiwan-water-cannon-vietnam-boat-spratlys

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## ahojunk

SCS Islands to scale.





RED = China 
BLUE = Vietnam
YELLOW = Malaysia
GREEN = Philippines.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## dichoi

.
*Ambassador refutes China’s unconvincing arguments about East Sea*
VNA MONDAY, JANUARY 25, 2016 - 21:33:00 

*Jakarta (VNA)* – Vietnamese Ambassador to Indonesia Hoang Anh Tuan penned an article recently published in the Jakarta Post that refutes the unconvincing arguments made by Chinese Ambassador to ASEAN Xu Bu claiming China’s sovereignty over the East Sea. 

Xu Bu’s arguments were written in his article “Maintaining peace and stability in the East Sea” that was also published in the Jakarta Post. 

Tuan said “Having completed the construction and installation phase of developing artificial islands over the reefs and rocks it had illegally occupied in the Truong Sa (Spratly), on January 1 China began conducting test flights of civilian aircraft on Vietnam’s Chu Thap (Fiery Cross) Reef, underscoring Beijing’s intention to continue its occupation and domination of an area critical to Southeast Asian commerce and world trade, as well as navigation of the high seas”. 

Worse still, from January 1-8, China conducted 46 flights in the Ho Chi Minh City Flight Information Region (FIR) managed and controlled by Vietnam. 

“This violates not only Vietnam’s sovereignty, but also regulations such as the 1944 Chicago Convention on International Civil Aviation and its annexes concerning rules of the air, especially Annex 2 and Annex 11, thus threatening the safety of international flights over this area, and driving home the extent to which China is prepared to turn its back on such international agreements”. 

Clearly, China’s actions contravene its statement that the construction of artificial islands in the East Sea does not affect the freedom and safety of navigation and overflight in the East Sea, and that peace and stability in the area is still guaranteed, he said. 

The article also pointed out that China’s construction and reinforcement of the artificial islands in the Truong Sa goes against the spirit of the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the East Sea (DOC), which focuses on maintaining the status quo and discouraging acts that might further complicate the situation. 

The ambassador went on to list some c oncrete deeds that will help untangle the challenges that the East Sea represents to peace and stability in ASEAN. 

First, China needs to stop all construction work aimed at creating artificial islands and China must cease acts that alter the status quo and militarise the East Sea. 

China should commit to the maintenance of the status quo, and quickly terminate the construction of an airport on Chu Thap Reef, since this threatens the sovereignty of Vietnam, peace and stability in the region, and freedom of navigation and overflight in the East Sea. 

China should fully implement the DOC, reach an agreement with ASEAN on the Code of Conduct in the East Sea at the earliest opportunity and in a constructive manner, and commit to resolving disputes on the basis of international law and the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea. 

These are three initial but essential steps that will go a long way toward assuring peace, stability and security for the Southeast Asian region, which of course would serve the long-term interests of China as well, he concluded.-VNA

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TaiShang

This is the monster dredger, Tian Jing Hao mentioned in the Philippines' Hearing on Merits,　２５　Ｎｏｖ．，　２０１５．

＂With a dredging depth of 30m and a production rate of 4500m3/h, Tian Jing Hao is rated as Asia’s first and the world's third most powerful among the self-propelled cutter suction dredgers, and the production capacity is the best in Asian. Equipped with the most advanced automatic control system in the world and Asia's most powerful dredging system, Tian Jing Hao can perform automatic self-monitoring and self dredging. Thanks to its cutter power of 4200KW, Tian Jing Hao can dredge clay, gravel, dense sand, and also rock of 40 MPa. Being able to navigate and load barges in unrestricted areas, Tian Jing Hao is suitable for large-scale dredging projects under various sea conditions. It is also equipped with highly efficient dredge pumps and has a powerful ability of land reclamation, which ranks it the flagship of CCCC and even the dredging industry of China.＂

Ｐｒｏｕｄｌｙ　Ｍａｄｅ　ｉｎ　Ｃｈｉｎａ！

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## cirr

China will start a new round of land reclamation in the SCS in 2016.

As for the timing and other specifics。。。



TaiShang said:


> This is the monster dredger, Tian Jing Hao mentioned in the Philippines' Hearing on Merits,　２５　Ｎｏｖ．，　２０１５．
> 
> ＂With a dredging depth of 30m and a production rate of 4500m3/h, Tian Jing Hao is rated as Asia’s first and the world's third most powerful among the self-propelled cutter suction dredgers, and the production capacity is the best in Asian. Equipped with the most advanced automatic control system in the world and Asia's most powerful dredging system, Tian Jing Hao can perform automatic self-monitoring and self dredging. Thanks to its cutter power of 4200KW, Tian Jing Hao can dredge clay, gravel, dense sand, and also rock of 40 MPa. Being able to navigate and load barges in unrestricted areas, Tian Jing Hao is suitable for large-scale dredging projects under various sea conditions. It is also equipped with highly efficient dredge pumps and has a powerful ability of land reclamation, which ranks it the flagship of CCCC and even the dredging industry of China.＂
> 
> Ｐｒｏｕｄｌｙ　Ｍａｄｅ　ｉｎ　Ｃｈｉｎａ！



Bigger and more capable dredgers are under construction at several shipyards。

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ahojunk

Taiwan uses water cannon to drive off Vietnamese boat in South China Sea





_A handout photo showing Taiwan's coastguard (right) spraying a Vietnamese fishing boat with a water cannon._

PUBLISHED | JAN 25, 2016, 8:12 PM SGT

TAIPEI (AFP) - Taiwan's coastguard said on Monday (Jan 25) that one of its vessels used water cannon this month to drive off a Vietnamese fishing boat near disputed islands in the South China Sea.

Two Vietnamese fishing boats were sighted on Jan 6 some 2.5 nautical miles (around 4,600m) off Taiping Island, an Taiwan-administered islet in the Spratlys, the coastguard said in a statement.

The Spratly islands are also claimed in part or in whole by Vietnam, China, the Philippines, Malaysia and Brunei.

The two Taiwanese coastguard boats, which have been deployed there since December to replace smaller vessels, scrambled to drive off the Vietnamese boats.

One left while the second refused and instead attempted to zigzag. One coastguard vessel opened fire with water cannon because of fears it might be rammed, the statement said.

While denying accusations in Vietnamese media that Taiwanese coastguards had enforced the law outside their territorial waters, the coastguard tried to keep the event low-profile.

"That was a regular law-enforcement practise in a sensitive area," one coastguard official told AFP on condition of anonymity.

China is seen by other claimants as the biggest threat in the South China Sea.

The Philippines and Vietnam have complained that China is becoming increasingly aggressive in its actions in the area - such as harassing fishermen - and also through bullying diplomatic tactics.

As part of efforts to strengthen defence capabilities, Taiwan late last year inaugurated a solar-powered lighthouse, an expanded airstrip and a pier on Taiping Island.

It serves as the home port of the 100-tonne coastguard cutters and could accommodate 3,000-tonne naval frigates.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## LowPost

bobsm said:


> *Taiwan uses water cannon to drive off Vietnamese boat*
> While denying accusations in Vietnamese media that Taiwanese coastguards had enforced the law outside their territorial waters, the coastguard tried to keep the event low-profile
> 
> *Agence France-Presse*
> Published 10:14 PM, January 25, 2016
> Updated 10:14 PM, January 25, 2016
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DISPUTE. Taiwan's coastguard (right) seen here using a water cannon to spray a Vietnamese fishing boat, some 2.5 nautical miles off Taiping Island in the disputed Spratlys in the South China Sea. Photo by Taiwan Coast Guard/AFP
> 
> TAIPEI, Taiwan – Taiwan's coastguard said Monday that one of its vessels used water cannon this month to drive off a Vietnamese fishing boat near disputed islands in the South China Sea.
> 
> Two Vietnamese fishing boats were sighted on January 6 some 2.5 nautical miles (around 4,600 meters) off Taiping Island, an Taiwan-administered islet in the Spratlys, the coastguard said in a statement.
> 
> The Spratly islands are also claimed in part or in whole by Vietnam, China, the Philippines, Malaysia and Brunei.
> 
> The two Taiwanese coastguard boats, which have been deployed there since December to replace smaller vessels, scrambled to drive off the Vietnamese boats.
> 
> One left while the second refused and instead attempted to zigzag. One coastguard vessel opened fire with water cannon because of fears it might be rammed, the statement said.
> 
> While denying accusations in Vietnamese media that Taiwanese coastguards had enforced the law outside their territorial waters, the coastguard tried to keep the event low-profile.
> 
> "That was a regular law-enforcement practice in a sensitive area," one coastguard official told AFP on condition of anonymity.
> 
> China is seen by other claimants as the biggest threat in the South China Sea.
> 
> The Philippines and Vietnam have complained that China is becoming increasingly aggressive in its actions in the area - such as harassing fishermen - and also through bullying diplomatic tactics.
> 
> As part of efforts to strengthen defense capabilities, Taiwan late last year inaugurated a solar-powered lighthouse, an expanded airstrip and a pier on Taiping Island.
> 
> http://www.rappler.com/world/regions/asia-pacific/120235-taiwan-water-cannon-vietnam-boat-spratlys



Activities on the part of the ROC in the SCS is always news to me, to be honest. I wonder what the DPP will do when they take office.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## asia2000

ahojunk said:


> SCS Islands to scale.
> 
> View attachment 289697
> 
> RED = China
> BLUE = Vietnam
> YELLOW = Malaysia
> GREEN = Philippines.



Vietnam is pretty fast, 50 islands already?


----------



## dichoi

*Vietnam calls on Chinese Taiwan to end sovereignty violations*
VNA THURSDAY, JANUARY 28, 2016 






*Hanoi (VNA)* – The Taiwanese leader’s visit to Ba Binh island in Vietnam’s Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelago seriously violates Vietnam’s sovereignty and runs counter to the Taiwanese side’s recent statements hoping to contribute to maintaining peace and stability in the East Sea. 

The statement was made by Foreign Ministry Spokesman Le Hai Binh on January 28 in reply to reporters’ queries on Vietnam’s response to the Taiwanese leader Ma Ying-jeou’s visit to Ba Binh island on the same day. 

“Once again, Vietnam confirms that she has a full legal foundation and historical evidence asserting her indisputable sovereignty over Hoang Sa (Paracel) and Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelagoes,” said Binh. 

Vietnam resolutely opposes and requests Chinese Taiwan to immediately end its violations of Vietnam’s sovereignty, as well as, not to repeat similar actions, which accelerate tensions and complicate the situation in the East Sea, he added.-VNA


----------



## TaiShang

cirr said:


> China will start a new round of land reclamation in the SCS in 2016.
> 
> As for the timing and other specifics。。。
> 
> Bigger and more capable dredgers are under construction at several shipyards。



Very nice. The Filipino side will have to update their submissions to the Tribunal significantly, then. LOL.



Arryn said:


> Activities on the part of the ROC in the SCS is always news to me, to be honest. I wonder what the DPP will do when they take office.



Taiwan (China) has always been publicly less vocal, but, nonetheless, officially, remained rather steadfast on historical titles and claims.

Here is from Taiwan's Statement on the SCS dated 2015/7/16:

With regard to the South China Sea, which has been in the international spotlight of late, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Republic of China（Taiwan）reiterates its position as follows: 
1.Whether from the perspectives of history, geography, or international law, the Nansha（Spratly）Islands, Shisha （Paracel） Islands, Chungsha Islands （Macclesfield Bank）, and Tungsha （Pratas） Islands, as well as their surrounding waters, are an inherent part of ROC territory and waters. As the ROC enjoys all rights to these island groups and their surrounding waters in accordance with international law, the ROC government does not recognize any claim to sovereignty over, or occupation of, these areas by other countries, irrespective of the reasons put forward or methods used for such claim or occupation.

2.The South China Sea islands were first discovered, named, and used, as well as incorporated into national territory by the Chinese. In 1938 and 1939, Japan illegally occupied the Tungsha （Pratas）, Shisha （Paracel）, and Nansha （Spratly） Islands. On March 30, 1939, Japan integrated what it called “Shinnan Gunto” （comprising some of the Nansha （Spratly） Islands） into Takao Prefecture （today known as Kaohsiung City） through Announcement No. 122 of the Taiwan Governor-General’s Office. In 1946, following World War II, the ROC government reclaimed the Tungsha （Pratas）, Shisha （Paracel）, and Nansha （Spratly） Islands, erecting stone markers on major islands and garrisoning some. In December 1947 it issued the revised names of the South China Sea islands and the Location Map of the South China Sea Islands, which delineate the scope of ROC territory and waters in the region. Furthermore, the San Francisco Peace Treaty, which entered into effect on April 28, 1952, as well as the Treaty of Peace between the ROC and Japan which was signed that same day, together with other international legal instruments, reconfirmed that the islands and reefs in the South China Sea occupied by Japan should be returned to the ROC. In the several decades since, the fact that the ROC owns and exercises effective control over these islands has been recognized by foreign governments and international organizations.

3.Taiping Island （Itu Aba）, the largest （0.5 square km） of the naturally formed Nansha （Spratly） Islands, has been garrisoned by ROC troops since 1956. In the same year, the ROC government established the Defense Zone of the Nansha （Spratly） Islands on Taiping Island （Itu Aba）. In February 1990, by executive decree, the Executive Yuan （Cabinet） of the ROC put Taiping Island （Itu Aba） under the administrative jurisdiction of Qijin District of Kaohsiung City. For the past six decades, ROC military and civilian personnel have dwelled on Taiping Island （Itu Aba）, conducting their respective missions while making use of and developing its natural resources. Taiping Island （Itu Aba） has groundwater wells, natural vegetation, and phosphate ore and fishery resources. Moreover, personnel stationed on the island cultivate vegetables and fruit and rear livestock. In 1959, personnel built the Guan Yin Temple, dedicated to the Bodhisattva of Compassion. From legal, economic, and geographic perspectives, Taiping Island（Itu Aba） indisputably qualifies as an “island” according to the specifications of Article 121 of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea （UNCLOS）, and can sustain human habitation and economic life of its own; it is thus categorically not a “rock”. The ROC government will firmly defend this fact. Any claims by other countries which aim to deny this fact will not impair the legal status of Taiping Island （Itu Aba） and its maritime rights based on UNCLOS.​

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Dungeness

Chinese Navy has found fresh water on Fiery Cross Reef, the following text is copied from 南海研究论坛：

今天上午开会
刚听军方一工程技术专家说的
这位专家以前记过一等功
非常专业靠谱的一个人

本月中旬
科研人员选择永暑全岛0.6平方公里范围内
27个点位进行了钻探勘测
在其中11个点位探获了淡水
并且出水量较大
水质目前已达到灌溉用水标准: 
可用于绿化、家畜养殖等7 t
更重要的是岛中部的个别点位
出水已接近饮用标准

专家说
本次确认新建岛屿上出现地下淡水
战略意义十分重大
为未来岛屿森林化: 
改善岛上驻军和群众生活质量
甚至工农业发展都提供了重要基础条件
在世界上也是一项开创性课题

目前是对永暑岛淡水资源的首次勘测
只是前期调研性质. 
短期内并无任何永暑地下淡水开采计划
今后将大力加强研究投入
评估人工岛地下淡水资源的精确储量
密切跟踪水位、水质等参数的变化动态
为将来必要时开发利用积累科学资料
同时将在其他岛屿开展类似研究工作
此事应该不算泄密
希望能让大家开心一下
http://www.nhjd.net/thread-39221-1-1.html

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cirr

Chiguadao Island






Now this is what I call the Beacon of the Harmonious Land。

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## TaiShang

Dungeness said:


> Chinese Navy has found fresh water on Fiery Cross Reef, the following text is copied from 南海研究论坛：
> 
> 今天上午开会
> 刚听军方一工程技术专家说的
> 这位专家以前记过一等功
> 非常专业靠谱的一个人
> 
> 本月中旬
> 科研人员选择永暑全岛0.6平方公里范围内
> 27个点位进行了钻探勘测
> 在其中11个点位探获了淡水
> 并且出水量较大
> 水质目前已达到灌溉用水标准:
> 可用于绿化、家畜养殖等7 t
> 更重要的是岛中部的个别点位
> 出水已接近饮用标准
> 
> 专家说
> 本次确认新建岛屿上出现地下淡水
> 战略意义十分重大
> 为未来岛屿森林化:
> 改善岛上驻军和群众生活质量
> 甚至工农业发展都提供了重要基础条件
> 在世界上也是一项开创性课题
> 
> 目前是对永暑岛淡水资源的首次勘测
> 只是前期调研性质.
> 短期内并无任何永暑地下淡水开采计划
> 今后将大力加强研究投入
> 评估人工岛地下淡水资源的精确储量
> 密切跟踪水位、水质等参数的变化动态
> 为将来必要时开发利用积累科学资料
> 同时将在其他岛屿开展类似研究工作
> 此事应该不算泄密
> 希望能让大家开心一下
> http://www.nhjd.net/thread-39221-1-1.html



There goes one of Filipino submissions out the window. Let's see what the circus Court in the Hague will do about it.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cirr

*活力三沙海天阔 *




安装了路灯后，夜晚的赵述岛愈加迷人。 本报记者 宋国强 摄



建设一新的三沙市人民医院，完善了医院的医疗条件和设施，给岛礁作业的渔民和驻岛部队官兵吃下一颗“定心丸”。 本报记者 张杰 摄



在三沙市鸭公岛，人们正在通过冲锋舟出行。冲锋舟将三沙的一个个小岛礁“无距离”串联起来，让岛际交通体系日趋完善。 本报记者 张杰 摄







在三沙市鸭公岛上，当地渔民围在一起通过手机看朋友圈里。自鸭公岛开通了无线wifi后，岛上渔民可以通过互联网与岛外亲朋好友保持即时网络通讯。 本报记者 张杰 摄
　　■见习记者 李磊
　　每当“三沙一号”缓缓驶入永兴岛，很多第一次来到三沙的人都会被眼前的景象所震惊：整个岛礁上工程车辆轰鸣、宛若一个大工地，工地外的区域道路宽阔笔直、一栋栋建筑拔地而起，这幅画面完全颠覆了此前很多人心中艰苦的不毛之地的印象。

　　如今在三沙，上学有学校，看病有医院，用电有太阳能，娱乐有广播电视网络，健身有体育馆，购物有商业街……

　　从2012年7月三沙设市伊始，年轻的三沙市以一天也不耽误的精神推进基础设施建设，三年多的时间过去了，再看三沙，一个个项目建成使用，一个个新项目又开工建设，岛上居民生活服务设施的日趋完善，越来越多的三沙人感受到，“幸福三沙”的概念并非空泛，而是真正实实在在！

　　“海岛别墅” 让渔民告别日晒雨淋

　　尽管已经临近春节，可永乐群岛银屿社区上依然异常繁忙，碧波环绕的三沙银屿岛礁上机器轰鸣，烈日下，挖掘机、工程车在工地上频繁出入，工人忙得热火朝天。在银屿岛礁上，居委会综合楼、渔民定居点项目主体建筑正紧锣密鼓地施工，去年10月，这些建筑正式开工打下地基，如今建筑的框架已初见雏形。

　　银屿居委会主任李遴君介绍，过去的渔民临时居住点不仅不抗风雨，还异常湿热，一遇到台风天气，就要加固房屋，以免被台风摧毁。目前银屿社区有常住渔民19人，能住进钢筋水泥结构房屋，几乎成了这些坚守祖宗海的渔民最大的梦想。

　　现在，这“住”的幸福，让渔民深深感受到了党和政府对这片小岛的挂记和关怀。

　　正在建设中的银屿渔民定居点居民楼，只是三沙诸多岛礁上的一部分，除永兴岛外，三沙其他岛礁驻岛渔民的住房需求也将得到解决。按照计划，赵述岛渔民定居点一期（27户）在2016年12月全部完成。特别是去年，永兴岛上的三栋渔民住宅楼竣工，并全部完成了内部装修，这些住宅楼也是各个岛礁渔民居住环境的标杆。

　　走进这些装修一新的住宅楼内，不少人都会为现在渔民的居住环境感慨：楼内铺有明亮的瓷砖，安装了结实的门窗，每个卧室都安有温馨的灯饰，洗手间内布置了现代化的卫浴。一楼为厨房、餐厅，二楼为卧室的室内设计格局。

　　据了解，在三沙实施基础设施建设面临着“三高”的挑战：温度高、盐分高、湿度高。外来的建筑材料要重新检测，看是否耐高温、高湿；建筑材料运上岛礁既要协调运力，保证材料供应，又要照顾好工人的健康，免受热带岛礁气候影响。综合计算下来，三沙的建筑成本可能属全国最高。

　　越来越多的设施

　　让居民生活得更好

　　解决了住的问题，三沙岛礁居民饮食、出行等基础设施建设也成为基础设施建设重中之重，对岛上的居民来说，这些设施的建设，无疑是更加看得见摸得着的幸福。

　　设市三年来，三沙关于民用基础设施的建设一刻也没有停歇。应急物资储备配备中心和永兴码头配套设施主体工程于去年7月24日竣工，使得三沙物资补给和船只作业更加有保障。

　　永兴岛应急物资储备配备中心建筑面积675.63平方米，共有三层。其中第一层为低温冷藏库，第二层为高温保鲜库，第三层为仓库。冷藏库和保鲜库可达到150吨的冷藏规模，可维持三沙市500多人两个月的生活所需，极大改善永兴岛的物资储备。

　　2014年，永兴岛日产300吨海水淡化厂建设完成，雨水收集管网和地方区域各单位淡水供应的管道体系铺设完成，日产1000吨海水淡化厂给水管铺设完成，西沙永兴岛污水处理厂和西沙群岛垃圾收集转运工程也于去年7月25日竣工。

　　其中，污水处理厂设计日处理能力1800吨，出水水质达到《城市污水再生利用城市杂用水》水质标准，做到污水收集全岛全覆盖，处理后的中水可缓解永兴岛淡水资源紧张的局面，提高资源利用率；西沙群岛垃圾收集转运工程近期日转运最大能力为两吨。

　　这一系列工程改变不仅仅是永兴岛，在赵述岛、晋卿岛，这些基础设施均已改造完成，原本生活环境恶劣的小岛已经改变了模样。对于三沙居民来说，有了淡水，岛礁才能更绿；有了应急物资储备，他们的生活才能无后顾之忧；有了污水垃圾处理设施，才能让他们生活在更舒适的环境中。

　　网络信号覆盖岛礁

　　渔民可刷“朋友圈”

　　相对于海水淡化、垃圾处理、道路修建等基础设施的建设，网络信息基础设施的竣工，三沙岛礁网络化的覆盖，更是在精神层面上给三沙居民带来了可喜的变化，特别是永兴岛以外的岛礁上的居民，感受最深。

　　“老一辈闯三沙的渔民都说赵述岛是海鸟都不落地的荒岛。”在三沙赵述岛上定居的渔民李遴赛说，此前岛上居住条件很差，但这些问题都可以克服，最难受的是精神生活上的枯燥。此前，每当夕阳西下岛上就漆黑一片，唯独海浪冲刷着岛礁发出单调的浪花声，这样枯燥的日子甚是难熬。

　　“上岛10年，变化最大的就是三沙设市后的这3年多时间。”李遴赛说，长期以来，西沙各岛礁驻岛居民和工作人员只能通过手机网络登录互联网，费用高、信号相对不稳定。如今，随着岛礁WIFI信号的覆盖，岛礁居民天天都可以用手机“刷”朋友圈，或者用网络下载歌曲。岛上甚至有人开设了一家水产捕捞行，用网络将新鲜海产品发布到互联网，进行电子商务交易。

　　三沙市信息中心工作人员介绍，为解决三沙各岛礁居民“上网难”问题，他们通过在岛上安装室外无线天线，使原来的室内网络扩展到室外，既方便了岛上的工作人员办公，也方便了渔民上网，获取资讯，丰富岛礁居民的精神文化生活。

　　如今，三沙岛礁基础设施发生着实实在在的变化，让留岛的渔民越来越多，岛礁人气越来越旺。

　　2014年7月，三沙市投资近100万元完成有线电视数字化改造，永兴岛政府机关、部队及渔民村实现了有线数字电视信号的全覆盖，可收看80多套电视节目，包含15套高清电视节目。同时，“户户通”广播电视工程队也深入永乐工委，为住岛居民免费安装可以收到58套节目的“户户通”直播电视卫星接收设备，三沙卫视也在西沙各有人居住岛礁实现了全覆盖。

　　寂寞海岛

　　如今像个小城市

　　越来越多的基础设施建设正在建设，让三沙发生了极大的变化，特别是三沙市政府所在的永兴岛，如今建设越来越像一个城市。

　　相对于其他岛礁，三沙市政府所在地永兴岛，其基础设施的完善，已经成为三沙各岛礁发展的一面旗帜。这里的生活已经彻底告别了寂寞、枯燥、无味，处处洋溢着海岛风情和热带都市味道。

　　北京路是永兴岛上最热闹的市政主干道。每当夜幕降临，北京路上的各家店铺都会亮起五颜六色的霓虹灯，来自岛上各条战线的工作者们和居民都会汇聚到这里，在商品琳琅满目的超市内购物，在一旁的渔家乐里吃饭，在理发店里理个满意的发型……

　　此外，一些城市功能配套基础设施的建设，也让三沙的城市功能越来越完善。去年7月25日，三沙市*拘留所（for our Viet friends）*开建，同日开建的还有三沙军警民联防指挥中心。三沙市拘留所在永兴岛上分别新建1栋3层的综合楼和1栋3层的拘室楼等相关用房及配套基础设施，总建筑面积1498.32平方米，设计关押量56人，计划于今年7月14日建成投入使用，拘留所建成后加挂三沙市看守所牌，具有拘留所和看守所两种功能。

　　正在建设中的三沙军警民联防中心具备军警民联防指挥、联合训练、联合办公、战备物资存储等功能，建成后将强化三沙地区军警民联防指挥协调能力，对于加强边海防建设，提高抢险救灾能力，维护海洋权益和促进地方经济社会发展有着十分重要的现实意义。

　　（本报三沙1月27日讯）




上一篇 下一篇

分享到一键通新浪微博腾讯微博QQ空间i贴吧

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## VNAF

Mix pics of Spratly island (quần đảo Trường Sa)

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## asia2000

Vietnam copied China navy uniform and food (Zongzi). Please pay the license fee

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cirr

TaiShang said:


> There goes one of Filipino submissions out the window. Let's see what the circus Court in the Hague will do about it.








12月11日，由中交天津航道局有限公司投资、振华重工建造的5000kW绞刀功率自航绞吸挖泥船正式开工建造。

该*船长140 m*，*宽27.8 m*，*吃水6.5 m*，*最大挖深-35 m*，*绞刀电机功率5000kW*，*最大功率可达7500kW*。船舶设计融合了当前世界最新科技，全船动力装置均采用电驱形式，装备了当今世界最强大的挖掘系统和最大功率的高效泥泵，*总装机功率达25680kW*，*标称生产能力约6000 m3/h*，配置通用、粘土、挖岩及重型挖岩4种不同类型的绞刀，*航速12节*，*最大排泥距离达15000米*，生产能力和输送能力均位居世界前列。

该船将于2017年7月建成。作为中国疏浚产业的旗舰，船舶建成后将进一步巩固中交天津航道局有限公司在开挖岩石等坚硬土质以及吹填造地方面的领先优势，并将大大提升中国交建的疏浚装备水平和国际竞争力。

Tian Jin Hao parameters for comparison 

"*天鲸*"号挖泥船*总长127.5m*，*型宽22m*，*吃水6m*，*总装机功率为19200KW*，*挖掘效率为4500m³/h*, *最大挖深-30m*，*设计航速12节*，*最大排泥距离6000m*。

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## VNAF

Reclaim ...
Đảo Núi Le - *Cornwallis South Reef







*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ahojunk

Progress of the airstrip at Meiji Island.





The southern end of the Meiji airstrip on October 19, 2015. Basically, there is nothing much to see.






On December 5, 2015, the outline can be seen with other constructions.






The progress on Jan 8, 2016. The airstrip is almost complete.





The picture of the entire airstrip on Jan 8, 2016. 
Still have to add the finishing touches.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## F-22Raptor

A U.S. Navy destroyer sailed within 12 nautical miles of an island claimed by China and two other states in the South China Sea on Saturday to counter efforts to limit freedom of navigation, the Pentagon said.

China claims most of the South China Sea, through which more than $5 trillion of world trade is shipped every year. Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei, the Philippines and Taiwan have rival claims.

Pentagon spokesman Captain Jeff Davis said no ships from China's military were in the vicinity of the guided-missile destroyer USS Curtis Wilbur when it passed near Triton Island in the Paracel Islands.

"This operation challenged attempts by the three claimants - China, Taiwan and Vietnam - to restrict navigation rights and freedoms," Davis said, reflecting the U.S. position that the crucial sea lane should be treated as international waters.

The Navy conducted a similar exercise in October in which the guided-missile destroyer Lassen sailed close to one of China's manmade islands, drawing a rebuke from Beijing.

Davis said the latest operation sought to challenge policies that require prior permission or notification of transit within territorial seas. He said the United States took no position on competing sovereignty claims to naturally-formed land features in the South China Sea.

"No claimants were notified prior to the transit, which is consistent with our normal process and international law," Davis said.

The Chinese foreign ministry responded Saturday evening with a statement on its website condemning the action.

"The American warship has violated relevant Chinese laws by entering Chinese territorial waters without prior permission, and the Chinese side has taken relevant measures including monitoring and admonishments," China's foreign ministry said in a statement.

China's defense ministry followed up later Saturday night with a far more forceful statement on its website, calling the American action "intentionally provocative and "irresponsible and extremely dangerous."

The ministry also said that Chinese navy vessels had immediately taken responsive action, conducted identification checks and promptly gave warnings for the ship to keep its distance.

"Regardless of whatever provocative steps the American side takes, China's military will take all necessary measures to firmly safeguard national sovereignty and security," the ministry statement concluded.

The operation followed calls in Congress for the Obama administration to follow up on the October operation.

This month, the chairman of the U.S. Senate Armed Services Committee criticized Obama for delaying further freedom of navigation patrols.

He said that allowed China to continue to pursue its territorial ambitions in the region, including by landing a plane on a manmade island in the Spratly Islands archipelago.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-southchinasea-china-idUSKCN0V8093

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## F-22Raptor

USS Curtis Wilbur

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

what is big deal about that? the rule will be apply to US when we're strong we will go within 12 nautical mile in Guam and other US annexed islands...you play this game, we will please you back. This remind me of Han dynasty, the Huns thought they could violate our territory without harm, 100 years later not only we violate their territory back but banish them from their own homeland.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## HongWu002

USN declared innocent passage and we consented on the basis of our domestic law. This is equivalent to a port visit to Shanghai.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## nang2

It doesn't even count as a distraction. PLA, march on!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Ind4Ever

*US Navy destroyer sails near island claimed by China, Taiwan and Vietnam*
Paracel island chain is controlled by China and also claimed by Vietnam and Taiwan





The aircraft carrier USS Theodore Roosevelt sailed 200 nautical miles south of the contested Spratly Islands in October © Reuters

_Twitter_
_Facebook_
_LinkedIn_
_Whatsapp_
6
4 HOURS AGO 
by: Geoff Dyer in Washington

A US Navy destroyer sailed on Saturday within 12 nautical miles of an island claimed by China and two other states in the South China Sea, the latest in a series of operations the Pentagon says are designed to defend freedom of navigation.

The USS Curtis Wilbur navigated within 12 miles of Triton Island in the Paracel island chain, which is controlled by China and also claimed by Vietnam and Taiwan.

Known as a freedom of navigation operation, the Pentagon says the US does not use such patrols to dispute claims to the actual islands but seeks to challenge restrictions on the surrounding waters.

“This operation challenged attempts by the three claimants, China, Taiwan and Vietnam, to restrict navigation rights and freedoms around the features they claim by policies that require prior permission or notification of transit within territorial seas,” the Pentagon said in a statement.

US officials said that the patrol was conducted under the basis of “innocent passage”, which allows for navy vessels to pass through another country’s territorial waters if they do not conduct military operations. No Chinese naval vessels were in the vicinity, officials said.

The US says it has conducted such operations in the area for decades, however the patrols have become more politically charged over the past two years because of China’s aggressive campaign to build man-made islands, mostly in the Spratlys, another group of islands in the South China Sea.

As well as port facilities that could be used by warships, images suggest that China is constructing four airfields on the man-made or reclaimed islands which could accommodate most military aircraft.

China immediately criticised the operation by the USS Curtis Wilbur, an Arleigh Burke class guided-missile destroyer. “The American warship has violated relevant Chinese laws by entering Chinese territorial waters without prior permission, and the Chinese side has taken relevant measures including monitoring and admonishments,” China’s foreign ministry said in a statement.

The patrol on Saturday follows the October passage of the USS Lassen, another destroyer, within 12 miles of Subi Reef, a man-made island in the Spratlys, which also drew an angry response from China.

At the time, the Pentagon was criticised for not outlining more clearly the legal underpinning of the Lassen operation. Earlier this week, Admiral Harry Harris, the head of the US Pacific Command, said the operation had challenged China’s claims to territorial waters around Subi Reef by not giving prior notification to Beijing.

“As we continue down the path of freedom of navigation operations, you will see more of them and you will see them increasing in complexity and scope,” he said.


https://next.ft.com/content/83cdbc4c-c760-11e5-a8ef-ea66e967dd44


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

Out of all these countries, China is the only one that can conduct a freedom of navigation exercise in Alaska, Florida, Hawaii and California, so it evens out for us, but not for any southeast Asian country.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## asia2000

they were there to deliver pizza

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Beast

We will land more planes or even military cargo planes and station battalion, more installation. Can you stop those action beside useless sailing?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ahojunk

2016-01-23. Satellite picture of Yongshu Island shows that both ends of the runway now has lawn / grass planted.







The lawns were planted after Jan 6 and completed by Jan 18.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Nan Yang

F-22Raptor said:


> USS Curtis Wilbur

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## dichoi

.
*U.S. warship challenges Chinese claim to disputed waters*
**







asia2000 said:


> Vietnam copied China navy uniform and food (Zongzi). Please pay the license fee



both copied from white man.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Beast said:


> We will land more planes or even military cargo planes and station battalion, more installation. Can you stop those action beside useless sailing?



Doesn't matter if Americans patrol hundred times butt will not change the equation to SCS but when we enlarge and enhance land reclamation, build infrastructure automatically it will tip the balance on our favor. Americans are just desperately try to fart out loud on the air with the patrol and hope to get attention

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## dy1022

please send more and more!


you're welcome!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Rechoice said:


> USA is turning back to stop idiot expanism of Han Chinese in Asia.



Haha but it was us the mighty Hans, the ones who stop Viets expansionism in South east Asia and SCS....LMAO...just to funny.



dy1022 said:


> please send more and more!
> 
> 
> you're welcome!



The more they send the patrol ships, the more we will perform to enhance our Islands, they can desperately pass by with their patrol ship, watch our Islands and witness our mighty achievement in SCS.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## ahojunk

Stop this quarreling guys. Now, back to topic.

-------
*China drives off US destroyer intruding into Xisha Islands waters*
By ZHANG YUNBI (chinadaily.com.cn) Updated: 2016-01-30 21:25

The People's Liberation Army sent warnings and drove away a US navy destroyer intruding into Chinese territorial waters of Xisha Islands in the South China Sea, the Ministry of National Defense said on Saturday.

Earlier on Saturday, the USS Curtis Wilbur guided missile destroyer violated China's laws by intruding into Chinese territorial waters, the ministry's spokesman Yang Yujun said in a written statement issued on Saturday night.

"The Chinese troops stationed at the islands and naval ships and airplanes made an immediate response, took countermeasures and conducted identification and verification against the US warship," Yang said.

The US action was "a serious violation of law, it damaged the peace and security of relevant waters and good order, and it is not helpful to regional peace and stability" and the Chinese ministry "expresses resolute opposition", Yang said.

Yang noted that the US side has sent warships or aircraft into China's relevant waters or airspace multiple times, leading to brushes between the two militaries.

"Such actions are technically very unprofessional, they are irresponsible to the safety of servicemen of both sides, and are extremely dangerous in regard to (potential) outcomes," Yang said.

The Chinese military will "take all the necessary measures to firmly safeguard national sovereignty and security no matter what provocative actions are made by the US side", Yang said.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## TaiShang

ahojunk said:


> Stop this quarreling guys. Now, back to topic.
> 
> -------
> *China drives off US destroyer intruding into Xisha Islands waters*
> By ZHANG YUNBI (chinadaily.com.cn) Updated: 2016-01-30 21:25
> 
> The People's Liberation Army sent warnings and drove away a US navy destroyer intruding into Chinese territorial waters of Xisha Islands in the South China Sea, the Ministry of National Defense said on Saturday.
> 
> Earlier on Saturday, the USS Curtis Wilbur guided missile destroyer violated China's laws by intruding into Chinese territorial waters, the ministry's spokesman Yang Yujun said in a written statement issued on Saturday night.
> 
> "The Chinese troops stationed at the islands and naval ships and airplanes made an immediate response, took countermeasures and conducted identification and verification against the US warship," Yang said.
> 
> The US action was "a serious violation of law, it damaged the peace and security of relevant waters and good order, and it is not helpful to regional peace and stability" and the Chinese ministry "expresses resolute opposition", Yang said.
> 
> Yang noted that the US side has sent warships or aircraft into China's relevant waters or airspace multiple times, leading to brushes between the two militaries.
> 
> "Such actions are technically very unprofessional, they are irresponsible to the safety of servicemen of both sides, and are extremely dangerous in regard to (potential) outcomes," Yang said.
> 
> The Chinese military will "take all the necessary measures to firmly safeguard national sovereignty and security no matter what provocative actions are made by the US side", Yang said.



Good job on part of our PLA.

Drive the US off and make a joke of them in the international stage but also continuously build up punitive capability by making use of those violations of China's territorial waters.

US regime gives China all the strategic and tactical advantages it needs.

Fascism always defies logic and long-term thinking.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## cirr

TaiShang said:


> Good job on part of our PLA.
> 
> Drive the US off and make a joke of them in the international stage but also continuously build up punitive capability by making use of those violations of China's territorial waters.
> 
> US regime gives China all the strategic and tactical advantages it needs.
> 
> Fascism always defies logic and long-term thinking.



Getting increasingly childish and desperate，the Americans are apparently at their wits' end。

This latest show by the US of utter stupidity will only lend more credibility to China's claim on the so-called disputed reefs and islands and further stimulate China to embark on a new round of land reclamations in the SCS。

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## TaiShang

cirr said:


> Getting increasingly childish and desperate，the Americans are apparently at their wits' end。
> 
> This latest show by the US of utter stupidity will only strengthen China's will and determination to start land reclamation at more reefs in the SCS。



An enemy that hides its intentions is the most dangerous.

The US has been recklessly open and honest in its enmity toward China. This is good.

This is good, as you point out, to keep strategy-makers politically conscious and also push harder for ensuring China's safety and security by building up punitive capabilities in the South China Sea.

Let them enjoy their FON through utterly inconclusive and backfiring moves.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## $@rJen

*In a daring move, US warship patrols disputed South China Sea*

 Facebook
 Twitter
 Google+
 Linked in
Sunday, January 31, 2016
By: Indian Express 









An American warship on Saturday patrolled the disputed South China Sea claimed by China, Taiwan and Vietnam, “to challenge excessive maritime claims” that restrict the rights and freedoms of the US and others.

The daring freedom of navigation operation by the US, mainly aimed at China, was first reported by The Wall Street Journal in a lead story.

“A US warship conducted a patrol Saturday around an island in the South China Sea claimed by China and two of its neighbors, another in a series of operations intended to challenge Beijing’s maritime and territorial claims in the region,” the daily said.

The Pentagon confirmed its operation in South China Sea.

“I can confirm the Department of Defense conducted a freedom of navigation operation in the South China Sea on Jan 30 (Jan 29 EST), specifically in the vicinity of Triton Island in the Paracel Islands, to challenge excessive maritime claims,” Commander Bill Urban, a Pentagon spokesman, told PTI in response to a question.

This operation challenged attempts by the three claimants, China, Taiwan and Vietnam, to restrict navigation rights and freedoms around the features they claim by policies that require prior permission or notification of transit within territorial seas, he said. The excessive claims regarding Triton Island are inconsistent with international law as reflected in the Law of the Sea Convention.

“During the operation, the USS Curtis Wilbur, transited in innocent passage within 12 nautical miles of Triton Island,” Urban said, adding that this operation was about challenging excessive maritime claims that restrict the rights and freedoms of the US and others, not about territorial claims to land features.

According to the daily, the operation lasted about three hours, during which there were no Chinese army or navy seen in the area. “We saw nothing that was unusual in terms of the reaction,” a senior defense official was quoted as saying.

The US takes no position on competing sovereignty claims between the parties to naturally-formed land features in the South China Sea, Urban reiterated.

However, Urban said that US does take a strong position on protecting the rights, freedoms, and lawful uses of the sea and airspace guaranteed to all countries and that all maritime claims must comply with international law.

“No claimants were notified prior to the transit, which is consistent with our normal process and international law,” he said. This operation demonstrates, as US President Barack Obama and Defense Secretary have stated, the US will fly, sail and operate anywhere international law allows.

“That is true in the South China Sea, as in other places around the globe,” Urban said.

Since 1979, the US Freedom of Navigation program has demonstrated non-acquiescence to excessive maritime claims by coastal states all around the world. The program includes both consultations and representation by US diplomats and operational activities by US military forces.


----------



## bbccdd1470

This is expected, and I do not think USA will stop patrolling in near future. I think what China can do is keep focusing on our development of those Islands, while the USA can do whenever they want to patrol since nothing actually lose.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cirr

VNAF said:


> Reclaim ...
> Đảo Núi Le - *Cornwallis South Reef
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



One typhoon later and you lot are more or less gone





Satellite images on 28.08.2015（left） and 31.12.2015（right）

Hundreds of millions of dollars down the drain。

Kid，you need to learn from your Chinese masters when attempting anything in the SCS。



TaiShang said:


> An enemy that hides its intentions is the most dangerous.
> 
> The US has been recklessly open and honest in its enmity toward China. This is good.
> 
> This is good, as you point out, to keep strategy-makers politically conscious and also push harder for ensuring China's safety and security by building up punitive capabilities in the South China Sea.
> 
> Let them enjoy their FON through utterly inconclusive and backfiring moves.



After failing to create havocs in the SCS through its proxy the Philippines，the US has been forced to come into the open。

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## TaiShang

cirr said:


> After failing to create havocs in the SCS through its proxy the Philippines，the US has been forced to come into the open。



Looks like Vietnam also gave up on the Philippines' ability to really force China's hand through a circus Court. They look like embarking forcefully (within their capability, of course) on island reclamation.

Maybe the US wants to keep the best proxy (Vietnam) for the last show.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

what is the big deal about that...Americans can come hundred times to see how we reclaim our Island with hopeless eyes...LMAO. they wouldn't dare to stop us our progress in SCS, we will be the winner

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Globenim

30 years ago this was normal because no one could even challenge the U.S. navies aggressions and violations.

Now it has become sensationalist news and their naive cheerleaders brag about it every little defiant provocation of China and boast about their violation of Chinese rights and international law because in the real world U.S.A. is all but pivoting to the East and slowly retreating and making little public stunts to hide it, while China literally cements its position. Their hopes still hanging on some Chinese "economic crash" and "bubble bursting" getting all hyped up about ever little fluctuation in the market like its world end.

"This is the U.S. navy! We violated your sovereignty! We violated your sovereignty! We violated your sovereignty! We still relevant!"

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Oldman1

Theres nothing daring about it. Unless they missed U.S. patrols for decades in SCS.


----------



## nang2

US just irritates China after China refused to offer cooperation regarding North Korea (now should be called Corea. ).

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## xunzi

Might as well use their powerful navy to patrol and protect our merchant ships from the Phillipiines pirate. We welcome that! LOL

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

nang2 said:


> US just irritates China after China refused to offer cooperation regarding North Korea (now should be called Corea. ).



Not only North Korea but Middle east especially Iran, Americans are pissed because our again at their expense on a zero sum game. After the sanction lift, we signed oil, and other economic deal that worth 300 billions over 10 years ...Americans got nothing but hopelessly cast a jealousy eyes then turn humiliation into fury.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Abacin

It just shows how bad the economic situation United States has. To attract capital inflow, first United States tried to use the interest rate hike. Only after one year's promise, USA hiked 0.25% and this quickly evolved into a financial turmoil and possibly even an economical turmoil. Now USA is trying the last effort, or the military approach to force capital inflow into USA, similarly to those of WWI and WWII. USA has used Ukraine crisis for Russia, ISIS for middle east, Refugee crisis for Europe and South China Sea for East Asia.

However, this approach has its limitation. First US's credit-ability was established on its efforts to help recovery of West Europe and Japan post WWII. It was actively playing constructive roles. The destructive roles USA is playing will severely damage its credit-ability. Second the quick rise of the dollar also significantly reduces US exports and causes more trade imbalance.

I expect more US adventurous military behaviors in South China Sea. This is viewed as critical by Washington to check the rise of China. However, the chaos in SCS will damage ASEAN countries first before China. You may see the severe capital outflow in ASEAN which will lead to another ASEAN financial crisis due to military instability. There are also severe capital outflow in China. But this is largely due to CNY internationalization. More Chinese start to have capital accounts for foreign currencies. In the worse case, China could simply freeze these accounts and take back these foreign currencies, although this could severely damage CNY internationalization.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Zero_wing

xunzi said:


> Might as well use their powerful navy to patrol and protect our merchant ships from the Phillipiines pirate. We welcome that! LOL



Wow this coming from know thrift country nice and a person who can't even spell right


----------



## xunzi

Zero_wing said:


> Wow this coming from know thrift country nice and a person who can't even spell right


Hello to my lovely Pinoy buddy!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

*ICAO corrects Sanya FIR map in East Sea following Vietnam's demand*


Thanh Nien News
*HANOI* - Saturday, January 30, 2016 11:38






Director Lai Xuan Thanh of the Civil Aviation Authority of Vietnam shows Vietnam's Chu Thap (Fiery Cross) Reef in the East Sea. Photo credit: Minh Anh/Nguoi Lao Dong

A panel of international safety experts has corrected the Sanya flight information region (FIR) map that had incorrectly included Vietnam’s Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelago.

The chairman of the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) also informed Civil Aviation Authority of Vietnam on January 27 about the correction, according to Vietnamese Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

Earlier on January 15, the ministry requested ICAO to correct the map that writes Chinese words “Sansha city – China” and draws a symbol of an airport on Chu Thap (Fiery Cross) Reef in Truong Sa, with the English words “Yong Shu airport – Sansha”.

The ministry spokesman Le Hai Binh said that Vietnam has indisputable sovereignty over the Truong Sa (Spratly) and Hoang Sa (Paracel) archipelagos.






Ho Chi Minh Flight Information Region


Vietnam has many times raised a voice protesting China’s establishment of the so-called “Sansha city” and its building of artificial islands and an airport in the area, he said, adding that such moves are a violation of Vietnam’s sovereignty over Truong Sa and Hoang Sa, as well as an infringement on Vietnam’s legitimate rights in the East Sea.

Vietnamese agencies also sent letters to ICAO affirming Vietnam’s sovereignty and noting that China’s flights to Fiery Cross Reef has violated ICAO’s regulations on aviation safety.

On January 7, the permanent Vietnam Mission to the United Nations sent a diplomatic note to the UN Secretary General, asking for circulating the Vietnamese Foreign Ministry’s diplomatic notes to China dated on January 2 and January 7.

The notes protest China’s flights to Fiery Cross Reef in Vietnam’s Truong Sa archipelago and make it clear that it is a violation of Vietnam’s sovereignty and a threat to peace, and to stability, as well as aviation security and safety in the East Sea.

On January 14, the UN endorsed these diplomatic notes as official documents of the 70th session of the UN General Assembly.


----------



## ahojunk

Some pictures of Taiping Island, released after Taiwan President Ma Ying-jeou's visit.





Solar panels on Taiping Island.





Cafe/restaurant menu on Taiping Island.





Post office.





Plaque certifying the water quality.





Lunch box.





The island water well.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## dichoi

.
*Would Indonesia Actually Challenge China's Nine-Dash Line in International Court?*
Don’t read too much into Luhut Panjaitan’s comment about bringing the South China Sea issue to an international court.





By Shannon Tiezzi
November 13, 2015





A top Indonesian official recently said his country was seeking clarification on the extent of Chinese claims to the South China Sea – and could take China to international court if that clarity isn’t forthcoming. Luhut Pandjaitan, the chief of staff to Indonesian President Joko Widodo as well as Jakarta’s coordinating minister for political, legal, and security affairs, made the comments on Wednesday.

According to _Reuters, _Panjaitan called China’s “nine-dash line,” which claims most of the South China Sea for Beijing, “a problem we are facing,” saying that “we don’t want to see any power projection in this area.” It’s not only a problem for Indonesia, either – the nine-dash line “also directly (impacts) the interests of Malaysia, Brunei, Vietnam, and the Philippines,” Panjaitan added.

“We are working very hard on this. We are trying to approach the Chinese,” Panjaitan said. “We would like to see a solution on this in the near future through dialogue, or we could bring it to the International Criminal Court.”

As my colleague Prashanth Parameswaran has explained before, Indonesia walks a fine line when it comes to the South China Sea disputes. On one hand, Jakarta is not a claimant to any of the disputed features in the South China Sea, so it positions itself as a neutral party (and potential mediator). However, Indonesia is also concerned about depictions of China’s nine-dash line that would seem to indicate Beijing claims waters that are part of Indonesia’s exclusive economic zone (specifically, the EEZ generated by the Natuna Islands, located in the southwest corner of China’s nine-dash line). Jakarta has tried numerous times to get China to clarify its claims, but so far Beijing has stuck to purposeful ambiguity as to the extent and meaning of the nine-dash line.

Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson Hong Lei declined to see any cause for controversy. “The Indonesian side has no territorial claim to China’s Nansha [Spratly] Islands. The Chinese side has no objection to Indonesia’s sovereignty over the Natuna islands,” he told a press conference on Thursday. Hong added that the “China-Indonesia comprehensive strategic partnership is making steady and sound progress.”

As for the question of an international legal case, Hong once again reiterated China’s stance that the South China Sea disputes must be resolved “through negotiations and consultations with countries directly concerned.” China has repeatedly refused to participate in the Philippines’ arbitration case on the South China Sea issue. While visiting Manila to plan for Chinese President Xi Jinping’s upcoming attendance at the APEC summit, Foreign Minister Wang Yi called the case “a knot that has impeded the improvement and development of Sino-Philippine relations.”

Given the diplomatic consequences China has imposed on Manila for its arbitration case, how seriously should we take Pandjaitan’s remarks that Indonesia might undertake legal action to get clarity on the nine-dash line? As Parameswaran has pointed out, taking one-off remarks from Indonesia officials as signs of government policy shifts can be dangerous. It’s also telling that Pandjaitan references the International Criminal Court, which typically deals with war crimes, genocide, and crimes against humanity, when he likely meant the International Court of Justice (or even the Permanent Court of Arbitration, where the Philippines has filed its suit against China).

Indonesia’s Foreign Ministry provided some context for Panjaitan’s comments. Spokesperson Armanatha Nasir told reporters that Indonesia does “not recognize the nine-dash line because it is not in line with … international law.” He confirmed that Jakarta has “asked [China] for clarification on what they mean and what they mean by the nine-dash line.”

“That has not been clarified,” Nasir said.

That lack of clarification is the main source of frustration for Jakarta, which at this point cannot be sure whether or not China intends to claim control over parts of the Indonesian EEZ. But would Indonesia really take China to international court over the issue?

Asked that question, Nasir declined to speculate. “We cannot preempt things before we know how they evolve,” he said. “But what is clear is that we are not a claimant state and we don’t recognize the issue of the nine-dash line, which we have made clear to China.”

It seems more likely that Panjaitan’s comments were meant to signal frustration with China’s ambiguity, rather than a real indication that Indonesia wants to pursue the nine-dash line issue in a legal case. Ultimately, Indonesia may not have to seriously consider the option – the Philippines has already brought the nine-dash line before the Permanent Court of Arbitration for consideration.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ahojunk

more pictures of Taiping Island.





Water from the island well is clear.





Shrine on the island.





The island runway.





The ROC Warship Taiping monument, which the island is named after.





An old plant on the island.





Talking to medical staff on the island hospital.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## dichoi

*Vietnam opposes Taiwanese leader’s visit to Truong Sa (Spratlys)*
JANUARY 29, 2016 BY TUOITRENEWS 






.Vietnam has resolutely condemned a recent illegal visit by a Taiwanese leader to Ba Binh (Itu Aba) Island, part of the former’s Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelago.

Ma Ying-jeou’s visit to Ba Binh, despite strong criticism from Vietnamand the international community, is a serious violation of Vietnamese territorial sovereignty, Ministry of Foreign Affairs Spokesperson Le Hai Binh said on Thursday.

Ba Binh is an island in Vietnam’s Truong Sa which Taiwan has been illegally occupying.

Taiwan has recently completed the construction of a lighthouse and port valued at US$100 million on the island.

Ma’s illicit visit to Ba Binh is considered contradictory to Taiwan’s recent announcement that it wished to contribute to the preservationof peace and stability in the East Vietnam Sea, according to the spokesperson.

“Once again, Vietnam reiterates that it has sufficient legal grounds andhistorical evidence proving the country’s indisputable sovereignty over the Truong Sa and Hoang Sa [Paracel] archipelagoes,” Spokesperson Binh asserted.

Taiwan’s infringement on Vietnam’s territory only causes escalation and complication to the situation in the East Vietnam seas, he said.

Vietnam strongly objects to the Taiwanese leader’s visit and demands that Taiwan halt its infringement on Vietnamese sovereignty over the group of islands, he added.

Ma visited the healthcare and agricultural facilities on Ba Binh and expressed his intention to improve medical services on the island for humanitarian purposes, according to a press release on Thursday by Ma’s office.

In response to Ma’s visit, Sonia Urbom, a spokesperson of the United States’ representative office in Taiwan, expressed disappointment from Washington and acknowledged that the trip was unhelpful and lacked any contribution to the peaceful settlement of territorial disputes in the East Vietnam Sea.

Ma replied with a statement saying that Taiwan has the same goals as the U.S. regarding the situation in the East Vietnam Sea, and hopes for peace, not war, according to _Reuters_.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## oprih

ahojunk said:


> SCS Islands to scale.
> 
> View attachment 289697
> 
> RED = China
> BLUE = Vietnam
> YELLOW = Malaysia
> GREEN = Philippines.


Chinese islands are so huge!

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Dungeness

The guy who started all.

*春节前夕，当年血染赤瓜礁的战斗英雄杨志亮再回南沙 *

新华网南海某海域2月3日电（钟魁润 肖永）近了，越来越近了……

春节前夕,阔别28年后，随海军慰问组重访自己曾用鲜血染红南沙赤瓜礁的这片海域，战斗英雄杨志亮激动不已，手腕上的睡眠记录仪清晰地记录着他前一个晚上深度睡眠时间不到10分钟。

赤瓜礁，英雄礁。当年这里的炮火硝烟，铸就了杨志亮永远的南沙情结，让他刻骨铭心，魂牵梦萦。也是在这场战斗中，杨志亮成为家喻户晓的战斗英雄。

南沙归来，杨志亮伤愈后，被调往北海舰队任职。在离开南海舰队的28年里，杨志亮无论在猎潜艇当教导员，护卫舰政委，还是在机关任职，曾多次到南海参加各种重大演习演练，总想找个机会登上南沙岛礁，到曾经战斗过的地方看一看。但这个愿望一直没有实现。去年，杨志亮被任命为南海舰队政治部副主任，从当年的一名最基层军官成长为副军职领导干部，更重要的是，他工作的地方离南沙更近了。

今年1月底，杨志亮接到随海军慰问组乘军舰前往南沙慰问的任务，他十分兴奋。临行前，爱人紧紧地拉着他的手，说：你去南沙看看的愿望终于能实现了！打小仰慕父亲、同样在海军服役的儿子也打来电话，要爸爸记得从南沙回来告诉他那里现在咋样了。

从第一代“海上看瓜棚”、第二代高脚屋、第三代礁堡，到现在坐着汽车穿梭于礁盘；从一封信要邮寄半年，到现在手机4G信号全时开通；从坐船去南沙来回要10多天，到现在民航飞机数小时就能往返永暑礁……杨志亮无时无刻不在关注着南沙一天天的变迁，他的目光须臾不曾离开过南沙那片海域。

今天，这一切都在眼前了，美济太阳花满园，永暑四季长青菜，渚碧泻湖掠飞鱼……尤其登上他当年浴血战斗过的赤瓜礁盘，杨志亮的双眼不禁模糊了起来。他全身伏地，紧紧贴在礁盘上，静静地倾听大海的呼唤，让身心融入这片蓝色国土，与礁盘的血脉相连互通：“这是实现民族复兴的希望之海，也是我梦想开始的地方……”

当年那个青葱豆蔻的热血男儿，不就是如今这个样子吗？戴上钢盔，跨上钢枪，他和执勤官兵肩并肩，为祖国站岗放哨，坚毅刚强的脸庞与守礁官兵那特有的南沙黑，同样写满忠诚与奉献，血性与担当。

“我们守礁的第一课，就是学习您的英雄事迹，传承弘扬南沙精神。”“这里的每个人都知道您，大家以您为荣，当好新一代南海卫士”……官兵们得知心中的英雄回来了，早早就在码头等候。杨志亮刚一上礁，战士们就纷纷围过来，你一言我一语问不停聊不够，还争着与杨志亮合影留念。

上礁就是上战场，守礁就是守阵地。“人在礁在阵地在，誓与南沙共存亡。”“南沙海水深千尺，不及守礁战友情”。离礁返舰前，杨志亮亲手装上一瓶沙子，灌上一壶海水，把28年的战斗记忆带回去，把这片蓝色的国土珍藏起来；再次亲吻南沙礁盘，深情凝视那朵朵海石花，它们生如珊瑚般娇艳绽放、死若磐石刚硬坚固，见证着一代代守礁官兵以礁为家、乐守天涯的家国情怀。

“与20多年前相比，南沙发生了翻天覆地的变化，可以说是沧海桑田，今非昔比。虽然工作生活条件改善了，但高温、高湿、高盐度的自然环境没有变，复杂严峻的斗争形势没有变，扎根南沙、守卫南沙、建功南沙的铮铮誓言也没有变，弘扬海军精神、矢志改革强军的壮美航程同样没有变。”伴随军舰渐行渐远，杨志亮的临别赠言，依然回响在守礁官兵的耳畔心间。

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ahojunk

Nice pictures of 3 Islands in the SCS.





Composite picture of Subi Island dated Feb 03, 2016. I have seen the yellow outline many times and I think it shows the final size but I could be wrong.





Huayang Island dated Feb 04, 2016.





Yongxing Island in the Paracels, dated Feb 04, 2016. Its area has increased in the past year.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## dichoi

.
*Australian Military Plane Flies Over Disputed South China Sea*
Agence France-Presse9:53 p.m. EST December 16, 2015






SYDNEY — An Australian military surveillance plane flew near disputed areas of the South China Sea, emerging Wednesday after the crew warned China's navy it was on a freedom of navigation mission.

Tensions in the region have mounted since China transformed reefs in the South China Sea into small islands capable of supporting military facilities, a move the United States says threatens free passage in an area through which one-third of the world's oil passes.

In October, Washington infuriated Beijing when the USS Lassen guided missile destroyer sailed within 12 nautical miles of at least one land formation claimed by China in the disputed Spratly Islands chain.

Now a Royal Australian Air Force patrol plane has carried out patrols in air space around the area.

"A Royal Australian Air Force AP-3C Orion was conducting a routine maritime patrol in the region as part of Operation Gateway from Nov. 25 to Dec. 4," a defence department spokesperson told AFP.

"Under Operation Gateway, the Australian Defence Force conducts routine maritime surveillance patrols in the North Indian Ocean and South China Sea as a part of Australia's enduring contribution to the preservation of regional security and stability in Southeast Asia."

The comments follow audio released by the BBC late Tuesday after a reporting assignment in the Spratly archipelago.

In the scratchy radio recording, an RAAF pilot is heard speaking to the Chinese navy.

"China navy, China navy," the voice said.

"We are an Australian aircraft exercising international freedom of navigation rights in international airspace in accordance with the international civil aviation convention and the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea — over."

The BBC said it recorded the audio from a RAAF AP-3C Orion aircraft on Nov. 25. It said the message was repeated several times but no response was heard from the Chinese.

The Australian newspaper said it understood that the aircraft did not fly within the 12-nautical-mile limit China claims around the artificial islands it has built up.

The BBC hired a small plane and took off from the Philippines, which also claims some of the scattered atolls and reefs in the region, to film Chinese claimed land and construction and to see whether they were challenged.

It said they were warned several times, with radio communication from the Chinese navy telling them "you are threatening the security of our station."

China insists on sovereignty over virtually all the resource-endowed South China Sea, but Washington has repeatedly said it does not recognize the claims.

In a communique after talks in Sydney in November, US allies Japan and Australia called on "all claimants to halt large-scale land reclamation, construction, and use for military purposes" in the South China Sea.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Elkanah



Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## dichoi



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ahojunk

Chigua Island dated Dec 26, 2015. We can see the lighthouse, two concrete towers, a steel tower, solar panels, a new massive building which dwarf the original outpost adjacent to it.





Subi Island dated Dec 23, 2015. The airstrip is 3 km.





Meiji Island dated Dec 24, 2015. The airstrip is also 3 km.

Enjoy!

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## dichoi

.
*US Navy ship sails near disputed island in South China Sea*

*ASSOCIATED PRESS JANUARY 30, 2016*




The USS Curtis Wilbur,

BANGKOK (AP) — A U.S. warship sailed near a disputed island in the South China Sea on Saturday to exercise the U.S.’s freedom to navigate in international waters, a defense official said.

The USS Curtis Wilbur destroyer sailed within 12 nautical miles of Triton Island, in the Paracels chain, without notifying the three claimants to the surrounding seas beforehand, according to Defense Department spokesman Mark Wright in Washington.

In October, another U.S. warship sailed in the disputed Spratly Islands near Subi Reef, where China has built an artificial island.

U.S. officials said after that operation that such ship movements would be regular in the future.

China protested the October sail-by strongly. It had no immediate comment on Saturday’s movements.

China says virtually the entire South China Sea and its islands, reefs and atolls are its sovereign territory, although five other regional governments have overlapping claims.

The area has some of the world’s busiest shipping lanes, and U.S. officials say ensuring freedom of navigation there is in U.S. national interests.

China, Taiwan and Vietnam have claims in the Paracels and require prior notice from ships transiting in nearby waters. Wright said the claimants’ attempts to restrict navigational rights by requiring prior notice are inconsistent with international law.

Wright reiterated that while insisting on freedom of navigation, the United States took no position on the competing territorial claims to natural islands in the South China Sea.

US Navy ship sails near disputed island in South China Sea - The Boston Globe

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

A new round of land reclamation in the Xisha Islands（Paracels）has begun

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## dichoi

.
*US and India consider joint patrols in South China sea, says US official*

Feb 10, 2016 | Reuters
New Delhi




(Photo: PTI) *India and US have ramped up military ties in recent years, holding naval exercises in Indian Ocean.*

*New Delhi: *The United States and India have held talks about conducting joint naval patrols that a US defence official said could include the disputed South China Sea, a move that would likely anger Beijing, which claims most of the waterway.

Washington wants its regional allies and other Asian nations to take a more united stance against China over the South China Sea, where tensions have spiked in the wake of Beijing's construction of seven man-made islands in the Spratly archipelago.

India and the United States have ramped up military ties in recent years, holding naval exercises in the Indian Ocean that last year involved the Japanese navy.

But the Indian navy has never carried out joint patrols with another country and a naval spokesman told Reuters there was no change in the government's policy of only joining an international military effort under the United Nations flag.

He pointed to India's refusal to be part of anti-piracy missions involving dozens of countries in the Gulf of Aden and instead carrying out its own operations there since 2008.

The US defence official said the two sides had discussed joint patrols, adding that both were hopeful of launching them within the year. The patrols would likely be in the Indian Ocean where the Indian navy is a major player as well as the South China Sea, the official told Reuters in New Delhi on condition of anonymity.

The official gave no details on the scale of the proposed patrols.

There was no immediate comment from China, which is on a week-long holiday for Chinese New Year.

China accused Washington this month of seeking maritime hegemony in the name of freedom of navigation after a US Navy destroyer sailed within 12 nautical miles of a disputed island in the Paracel chain of the South China Sea in late January.

The US Navy conducted a similar exercise in October near one of China's artificial islands in the Spratlys.

MARITIME COOPERATION

Neither India nor the United States has claims to the South China Sea, but both said they backed freedom of navigation and overflight in the waterway when US President Barack Obama visited New Delhi in January 2015.

Obama and Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi also agreed at the time to "identify specific areas for expanding maritime cooperation".

More than $5 trillion in world trade moves through the South China Sea each year. Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei, the Philippines and Taiwan also claim parts of the waterway.

In December, the issue of joint patrols came up when defence minister Manohar Parrikar visited the US Pacific Command in Hawaii, an Indian government source said.

"It was a broad discussion, it was about the potential for joint patrols," said the source, who declined to be identified because of the sensitivity of the matter.

India has a long-running land border dispute with China and has been careful not to antagonise its more powerful neighbour, instead focusing on building economic ties.

But it has stepped up its naval presence far beyond the Indian Ocean, deploying a ship to the South China Sea almost constantly, an Indian navy commander said, noting this wasn't the practice a few years ago.

The commander added that the largest number of Indian naval ship visits in the South China Sea region was to Vietnam, a country rapidly building military muscle for potential conflict with China over the waterway.

Still, the idea of joining the United States in patrols in the region was a long shot, the officer added.

The Philippines has asked the United States to do joint naval patrols in the South China Sea, something a US diplomat said this month was a possibility.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ahojunk

A couple of pictures of Yongxing Island preparing for the Spring Festival, a.k.a. Chinese New Year. Yongxing Island is in the Paracel Island group.





Red lanterns on a street in Yongxing Island.





Workers placing red flowers in front of a government building in Yongxing Island.

The island looks quite nice, quite neat and clean. It's a good little place to go for a nice vacation.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Tiqiu

Miji Island phase2 (bottom left corner) ........





And Yongshu Island

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## dichoi

*Japan's Top Military Officer: Joint US-Japanese Patrols in South China Sea a Possibility*
Will the Japanese Navy expand into the South China Sea with regular patrols?





By Franz-Stefan Gady
June 26, 2015

.




Japan’s highest ranking military officer reiterated that Tokyo would consider joining U.S. Forces in conducting patrols in the South China Sea, the _Wall Street Journal_ reports today.

According to Admiral Katsutoshi Kawano, chief of the Joint Staff of the Japan Self-Defense Forces, Japan remains deeply concerned over China’s recent constructions of artificial islands in the South China Sea.

While noting that China’s activities have created “very serious potential concerns” for Tokyo, he also emphasized that as of now there are no concrete plans for the Japan’s Maritime-Self Defense Force (JMSDF) to patrol the 3,500,000 square kilometers (1,400,000 square miles) of the South China Sea:

_ Of course, the area is of the utmost importance for Japanese security. We don’t have any plans to conduct surveillance in the South China Sea currently but depending on the situation, I think there is a chance we could consider doing so. (…)_

_In the case of China, as we can see with the South China Sea problem, they are rapidly expanding their naval presence and their defense spending is still growing. Also because there is a lack of transparency, we are very concerned about China’s actions._

Admiral Kawano was appointed Chief of Staff of the Joint Staff Council in October 2014. In April this year, the United States and Japan revised a set of guidelines for U.S.-Japan defense cooperation that included bilateral pledges towards safeguarding sea lines of communications. “The alliance with the U.S. is our foundation. That’s how we build deterrence,” Kawano emphasized.

The United States military apparently would support Japan’s move into the South China Sea. “I view the South China Sea as international water, not territorial water of any country, and so Japan is welcome to conduct operations on the high seas as Japan sees fit,” noted Admiral Harry Harris, the head of the U.S. Pacific Command, earlier this month in Tokyo.

As one of colleagues pointed out last month (see: “US-Japan Joint Patrols in the South China Sea?”) a number of obstacles still would have to be overcome in order for joint U.S.-Japanese patrols in the South China Sea to become reality. These include, among other things, revised domestic legislation and successfully negotiating an agreement with Manila over access to Philippine military bases for Japanese aircraft and vessels in order to be capable of patrolling larger stretches of ocean in the South China Sea.

There is also the question of capacity within the JMSDF and whether it could keep up a regular patrol schedule given the current size of the Japanese Navy. As I have noted before (see: “This is Japan’s Best Strategy to Defeat China at Sea”), the JMSDF is a highly capable navy and it is technologically more advanced, more experienced, and more highly trained than its main competitor – the People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN).

Yet, in the long-run, the JMSDF and the Japanese Coast Guard (JCG) – Tokyo’s principle enforcer of maritime law – are at a relative disadvantage if one looks at the burgeoning naval rearmament program of China, which is gradually shifting the regional maritime balance in Beijing’s favor.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ahojunk

The first commercial flight took off on Saturday 6 Feb 2016 from Hainan's Meilan International Airport for Yongxing Island in the South China Sea following a major upgrade of the island's airport. The airport's renovation has increased its capacity to take larger planes, allowing it to accommodate Boeing 737s which can hold up to 200 Passengers. 





CCTVNEWS reporter Han Bin at Hainan's Meilan International Airport on Saturday.





Reporter Han Bin boards flight.





Leaving Meilan Airport in Hainan.





Landing on Yongxing Island.





On the island runway.





Reporter Han Bin in front of the island airport.





The airplane on the tarmac.

Enjoy!

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## cnleio

ahojunk said:


> The first commercial flight took off on Saturday 6 Feb 2016 from Hainan's Meilan International Airport for Yongxing Island in the South China Sea following a major upgrade of the island's airport. The airport's renovation has increased its capacity to take larger planes, allowing it to accommodate Boeing 737s which can hold up to 200 Passengers.
> 
> View attachment 292986
> 
> CCTVNEWS reporter Han Bin at Hainan's Meilan International Airport on Saturday.
> 
> View attachment 292987
> 
> Reporter Han Bin boards flight.
> 
> View attachment 292989
> 
> Leaving Meilan Airport in Hainan.
> 
> View attachment 292990
> 
> Landing on Yongxing Island.
> 
> View attachment 292991
> 
> On the island runway.
> 
> View attachment 292992
> 
> Reporter Han Bin in front of the island airport.
> 
> View attachment 292993
> 
> The airplane on the tarmac.
> 
> Enjoy!


Very smart ... behind the 'SCS Casino' it's the world N.o2 power, if U.S can't afford war lost with China, nobody can stop Chinese building on these artificial islands.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## dichoi

.US B-52 bombers flying over South China Sea manmade islands contacted by Chinese ground control - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
*US B-52 bombers flying over South China Sea manmade islands contacted by Chinese ground control*
Updated 13 Nov 2015, 9:53am




Two US B-52 strategic bombers flying near Chinese manmade islands in the South China Sea recently were contacted by Chinese ground controllers but continued their mission undeterred, the Pentagon said.

"We conduct B-52 flights in international air space in that part of the world all the time," Pentagon spokesman Peter Cook told a briefing.

In the latest mission, which occurred overnight on November 8 and 9, the bombers flew "in the area" of the Spratly Islands but did not come within the 12-nautical-mile zones that China claims as its territory, Pentagon spokesman Commander Bill Urban said.

"The B-52s were on a routine mission in the SCS (South China Sea)," taking off from and returning to Guam, Mr Urban said.

Chinese ground controllers contacted the bombers but the aircraft continued their mission unabated, he said.

The latest US patrol in the disputed South China Sea occurred in advance of president Barack Obama's visit to the region next week to attend Asia-Pacific summits where he is expected the re-assert Washington's commitment to freedom of navigation and overflight in the area.





White House spokesman Josh Earnest said he did not know whether the South China Sea would be on the formal agenda at any of the three Asia summits, but added it would be "on the minds and lips" of world leaders who gather there.

China claims most of the South China Sea through which more than $5 trillion in global trade passes every year, and the US has said it will continue conducting patrols to assure unimpeded passage.

Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei, the Philippines and Taiwan have rival claims in the region.

Last week, a top US admiral said in Beijing the US military would continue to operate wherever international law allows after infuriating China by sailing close to artificial islands it is building in the South China Sea.

"The South China Sea is not — and will not — be an exception," he said.

In late October, the USS Lassen guided missile destroyer travelled within 12 nautical miles of at least one of the land formations China claims in the disputed Spratly Islands.

The US and Chinese navies recently held high-level talks after the challenge, with a US official saying they have agreed to maintain dialogue to avoid clashes.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ahojunk

A few more pictures of the first flight, this time of the passengers.





A "military" wife with her son visiting her husband who is based on Yongxing Island.





Luo Baoming, the Party Secretary of Hainan Province, who is also on this flight.





The passengers of this first flight. The flight is quite full.

@cnleio 
I don't think there is a casino there yet!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ahojunk

Pictures of Sansha I, the supply ship for the SCS.

These pictures were taken at Yongxing Island.
















Pictures of the government building at Yongxing Island.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cirr

Soldiers and builders planting palm trees on the Subi Island：

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## dichoi

*Return of the FONOP: US Navy Destroyer Asserts Freedom of Navigation in Paracel Islands*
On Saturday, the USS _Curtis Wilbur_ sailed within 12 nautical miles of a disputed island in the Paracel Islands.





By Ankit Panda
January 31, 2016

.




mage Credit: Flickr/ U.S.Navy

On Saturday, a U.S. Navy guided-missile destroyer, the USS _Curtis Wilbur_, sailed within 12 nautical miles of Triton Island in the disputed Paracel Islands in the South China Sea. Triton Island is claimed by China, Taiwan, and Vietnam, and is administered by China. The_Curtis Wilbur_‘s passage near Triton Island marks the first freedom of navigation patrol in the South China Sea since the U.S. Navy sailed the USS _Lassen_ within 12 nautical miles of Subi Reef in the Spratly Islands, marking 95 days between the two operations. Triton Island is not among the features where China has built artificial islands and constructed military and civilian features.

According to Captain Jeff Davis, a spokesperson for the Pentagon, no Chinese People’s Liberation Army-Navy (PLAN) vessels attempted to inhibit the _Curtis Wilbur_‘s passage unlike during the October freedom of navigation patrol in the Spratlys, when PLAN vessels escorted the _Lassen_ out of the 12 nautical mile zone around Subi Reef. “This operation challenged attempts by the three claimants — China, Taiwan and Vietnam — to restrict navigation rights and freedoms,” Davis added.

Davis clarified that the latest freedom of navigation patrol was an “innocent passage,” intended to challenge policies by both China and Vietnam that require vessels transiting the 12 nautical mile territorial waters of features in the Paracels to first notify maritime authorities. The United States rejects prior notification and sees these waters as open for lawful navigation compliant with the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of Sea (UNCLOS). “No claimants were notified prior to the transit, which is consistent with our normal process and international law,” Davis added.

The Chinese foreign ministry protested the freedom of navigation patrol. “The American warship has violated relevant Chinese laws by entering Chinese territorial waters without prior permission, and the Chinese side has taken relevant measures including monitoring and admonishments,” it said in a statement. “We urge the US side to respect [and] abide by relevant Chinese laws, to do more things conducive to Sino-US mutual trust and regional peace and stability,” Chinese foreign ministry spokesperson Hua Chunying added in the statement.

Notably, the statement asserts that the _Curtis Wilbur_ entered “Chinese territorial waters.” In October, after the_Lassen_‘s freedom of navigation operation, the Chinese foreign ministry preserved a degree of ambiguity about its maritime claims in the Spratlys by noting that the _Lassen_‘s passage “threatened China’s sovereignty and security interests.” China has described its claims in the Spratlys as a “military alert zone” at times–a designation that has no particular meaning in international law.

Saturday’s freedom of navigation operation comes shortly after the heads of both the Chinese and U.S. navies consulted about unplanned encounters at sea between the two sides. Additionally, speaking last week, the commander of U.S. military forces in the Asia-Pacific, Admiral Harry Harris, said that U.S. freedom of navigation patrols would intensify and grow more complex this year. Saturday’s freedom of navigation operation remains consistent with the precedent set in October in that it challenges excessive claims by multiple claimants. October’s freedom of navigation drew attention for challenging Chinese claims near Subi Reef, where China has built an artificial island with military applications, but it also involved the _Lassen_ transiting within 12 nautical miles of Northeast Cay, Southwest Cay, South Reef, and Sandy Cay.

_Update: U.S. Secretary of Defense Ashton Carter’s office released this complete statement on Saturday’s freedom of navigation operation:_

_I can confirm the Department of Defense conducted a freedom of navigation operation in the South China Sea on Jan 30 (Jan 29 EST), specifically in the vicinity of Triton Island in the Paracel Islands, to challenge excessive maritime claims of parties that claim the Paracel Islands._

_This operation challenged attempts by the three claimants, China, Taiwan and Vietnam, to restrict navigation rights and freedoms around the features they claim by policies that require prior permission or notification of transit within territorial seas. The excessive claims regarding Triton Island are inconsistent with international law as reflected in the Law of the Sea Convention._

_During the operation, the USS Curtis Wilbur, (DDG 54) transited in innocent passage within 12 nautical miles of Triton Island._

_This operation was about challenging excessive maritime claims that restrict the rights and freedoms of the United States and other, not about territorial claims to land features. The United States takes no position on competing sovereignty claims between the parties to naturally-formed land features in the South China Sea. The United State does take a strong position on protecting the rights, freedoms, and lawful uses of the sea and airspace guaranteed to all countries, and that all maritime claims must comply with international law._

_No claimants were notified prior to the transit, which is consistent with our normal process and international law._

_This operation demonstrates, as President Obama and Secretary Carter have stated, the United States will fly, sail and operate anywhere international law allows. That is true in the South China Sea, as in other places around the globe._

_Since 1979, the U.S. Freedom of Navigation program has demonstrated non-acquiescence to excessive maritime claims by coastal states all around the world. The program includes both consultations and representation by U.S. diplomats and operational activities by U.S. military forces._

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ahojunk

Some pictures of Zhaoshu (Tree) Island in the Paracels.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## dichoi

Hoang Sa ( Paracels Islands) is sea trritory of Vietnam from long time ago in past.

Paracel belong to Quang Ngai province of Vietnam.





Vietnam map today.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ahojunk

Spring Festival (Chinese New Year) greetings from the people on the Chinese SCS islands.





Greetings from Shanhu (Pattle) Island in the Paracels.





Greetings from Chenhang (Duncan) Island in the Paracels.





Greetings from Yongshu (Fiery Cross) Island, in front of the original outpost.





Meiji Island Outpost No.1.





Greetings from Meiji Island Outpost No.2.





Greetings from Subi Island. You can see the original outpost's distinctive dome in the background.





Greetings from Nanxun (Gaven) Island.





Greetings from Huayang (Cuateron) Island.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ahojunk

Continued from previous post ........





Greetings from Dongmen (Hughes) Island.





And lastly, greetings from Chigua (Johnson South) Island.
This was the first island where the reclamation started in the Nansha.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## dichoi

Chinese aggressor invaded in to Hoang Sa of Vietnam in 1974.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ahojunk

Some pictures of the Sansha Law Enforcement Vessel #1.















The captain at the controls.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## ahtan_china

dichoi said:


> Chinese aggressor invaded in to Hoang Sa of Vietnam in 1974.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## dichoi

ahtan_china said:


> View attachment 293563
> 
> View attachment 293564
> 
> View attachment 293565
> 
> View attachment 293566



Pls don't lying. the statement in the book didn't recognized that there is China's Island.

"Hoang Sa" is Vietnamese name, "Tay Sa" is Chinese name for Islands Paracel.

In the past there is permitted both name in Vietnamese and Chinese to be used in media or for the geology document. It is not related to the sovereignty.

In china, PRC media has also called Diaoyu Dao (釣魚島) with Japanese name Senkaku too. This map is printed in China.




*Partial image of map showing Senkaku Islands in World Atlas published in China in 1960.*






It is states that this is a *classified PRC government map from 1969* *and that it lists the Senkaku islands as Japanese name "Senkaku Guntō".*

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ahojunk

@cirr @cnleio 

Reclamation has started on Qilian Yu (七连屿, Seven Islets) North Island and adjacent reefs.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## cirr

ahojunk said:


> @cirr @cnleio
> 
> Reclamation has started on Qilian Yu (七连屿, Seven Islets) North Island and adjacent reefs.
> 
> View attachment 293691
> 
> 
> View attachment 293692



Old pics。The North Island and the Middle Island are now one island。

And Qilianyu will be 1 quarter of a necklace pretty soon。

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## dichoi

*In a daring move, US warship patrols disputed South China Sea*
*The operation challenged attempts by the three claimants, China, Taiwan and Vietnam, to restrict navigation rights and freedoms around the features they claim by policies that require prior permission or notification of transit within territorial seas*

By: PTI | Washington | Updated: January 30, 2016 6:22 pm
- See more at: In a daring move, US warship patrols disputed South China Sea | The Indian Express

An American warship on Saturday patrolled the disputed South China Sea claimed by China, Taiwan and Vietnam, “to challenge excessive maritime claims” that restrict the rights and freedoms of the US and others.

The daring freedom of navigation operation by the US, mainly aimed at China, was first reported by The Wall Street Journal in a lead story.


“A US warship conducted a patrol Saturday around an island in the South China Sea claimed by China and two of its neighbors, another in a series of operations intended to challenge Beijing’s maritime and territorial claims in the region,” the daily said.

The Pentagon confirmed its operation in South China Sea.

“I can confirm the Department of Defense conducted a freedom of navigation operation in the South China Sea on Jan 30 (Jan 29 EST), specifically in the vicinity of Triton Island in the Paracel Islands, to challenge excessive maritime claims,” Commander Bill Urban, a Pentagon spokesman, told PTI in response to a question.

This operation challenged attempts by the three claimants, China, Taiwan and Vietnam, to restrict navigation rights and freedoms around the features they claim by policies that require prior permission or notification of transit within territorial seas, he said. The excessive claims regarding Triton Island are inconsistent with international law as reflected in the Law of the Sea Convention.

“During the operation, the USS Curtis Wilbur, transited in innocent passage within 12 nautical miles of Triton Island,” Urban said, adding that this operation was about challenging excessive maritime claims that restrict the rights and freedoms of the US and others, not about territorial claims to land features.

According to the daily, the operation lasted about three hours, during which there were no Chinese army or navy seen in the area. “We saw nothing that was unusual in terms of the reaction,” a senior defense official was quoted as saying.

The US takes no position on competing sovereignty claims between the parties to naturally-formed land features in the South China Sea, Urban reiterated.

However, Urban said that US does take a strong position on protecting the rights, freedoms, and lawful uses of the sea and airspace guaranteed to all countries and that all maritime claims must comply with international law.

“No claimants were notified prior to the transit, which is consistent with our normal process and international law,” he said. This operation demonstrates, as US President Barack Obama and Defense Secretary have stated, the US will fly, sail and operate anywhere international law allows.

“That is true in the South China Sea, as in other places around the globe,” Urban said.

Since 1979, the US Freedom of Navigation program has demonstrated non-acquiescence to excessive maritime claims by coastal states all around the world. The program includes both consultations and representation by US diplomats and operational activities by US military forces.

- See more at: In a daring move, US warship patrols disputed South China Sea | The Indian Express

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

It is time to start land reclamation at the Zhongsha Islands（Macclesfield Bank）

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## cnleio

CCTV news reported Chinese builders living on SCS islands

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cnleio

CCTV news reported Chinese builders living on SCS islands

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cnleio

CCTV report Chinese builders living on SCS islands

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cnleio

CCTV news reported Chinese builders living on SCS islands

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cnleio

CCTV news reported Chinese builders living on SCS islands

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cnleio

CCTV news reported Chinese builders living on SCS islands

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cnleio

CCTV news reported Chinese builders living on SCS islands

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## dichoi

Chinese aggressors invaded in to Hoang Sa (Paracels) of Vietnam in 1974. Occoupastion of China in Paracels is illegal.

China's propaganda for invasion.





Vietnamese civilian were captured by Chinese aggressors.





List of Vietnamese were killed by Chinese aggressors by invasion in 1974.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ahojunk

cirr said:


> Old pics。The North Island and the Middle Island are now one island。
> 
> And Qilianyu will be 1 quarter of a necklace pretty soon。



Do you have the new pictures of Qilianyu?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## dichoi

Vietnamese were in Paracels, Spratly before invasion of Chinese 1974.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## VNAF

...salvage tugs, medium patrol ships for Vietnam Fisheries Law Enforcement

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TaiShang

ahojunk said:


> The island water well.



Which proves Taiping is an island under the UNCLOS with full territorial right of 200NM, which, eventually, nullifies Philippine's whatever claims with respect to 8 islands/reefs/rocks they brought about in their Arbitration.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## dichoi

.
*Obama tackles South China Sea dispute in U.S.-ASEAN Summit*


By Patricia De Leon, CNN Philippines

Updated 18:16 PM PHT Tue, February 16, 2016





*United States President Barack Obama met with ASEAN leaders in California to talk about pressing issues in Southeast Asia.*


Metro Manila (CNN Philippines) — U.S. President Barack Obama reiterated the importance of peacefully resolving the maritime dispute in the South China Sea in his meeting with the leaders of the Association of the South East Asian (ASEAN).

Economic issues and the maritime dispute topped the discussion on day one of the U.S. special summit in Sunnylands, California.

Also read: President Aquino flies to US for US-ASEAN leaders’ conference

This is the first time such a meeting is taking place on U.S. soil.

President Benigno Aquino III was welcomed by Obama as soon as he arrived at Camp David of the West in Sunnylands estate — the summit venue.

In his opening speech, Obama urged ASEAN leaders to form a common stance on issues affecting regional order, specifically maritime disputes in the South China Sea.

"Here at this summit, we can advance our shared vision of a regional order where international rules and norms, including freedom of navigation, are upheld and where disputes are resolved through peaceful, legal means," said Obama.

Also read: Southeast Asia, 'strategically important' for U.S. rebalance to Asia

Obama has championed a foreign policy pivot to Asia and seeks to present the U.S. as a pacific power.

Obama urged ASEAN leaders to stay vigilant on counter-terrorism.

On Monday night (Tuesday, February 16 PHT), President Aquino attended a working dinner where the regional strategic landscape was discussed. The agenda of the meeting on Wednesday are counter-terrorism and combating climate change.

After the Southern California summit, Aquino will visit Los Angeles, where he is meeting with officials of three major companies including Walt Disney. He will speak before the Loas Angeles World Affairs Council and meet with the Filipino-American community before flying back to Manila.


----------



## ahojunk

Pictures of Zhaoshu (Tree) Island in the Paracels.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## dichoi

*Australia calls on South China Sea claimants to stop reclamation, militarization*
By Patricia Lourdes Viray (philstar.com) | Updated January 22, 2016 - 2:08pm

.




FILE - In this Nov. 13, 2015, file photo, Prime Minister of Australia Malcolm Turnbull speaks during a news conference in Berlin. *AP/Markus Schreiber, File
*
MANILA, Philippines - Australia called on all nations with overlapping claims in the South China Sea to stop building artificial islands and avoid militarization in the region.

"We urge all parties, not just China, to refrain from further construction on those islands or reefs, and to refrain from militarization," Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull said in a speech during the Martin Luther King Day in the United States.

Turnbull clarified that Australia does not have claims in the disputed sea and does not make any judgment on the legitimacy of any of the competing claims.

The Australian leader noted that the competing claims are a threat to the peace and good order in the region.

He said that the differences among claimant states should be resolved by international law.

"That is why Australia attended, as observers, the merits hearing in The Hague last November, in the case brought by the Philippines under the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea," Turnbull said.

Headlines ( Article MRec ), pagematch: 1, sectionmatch: 1
Turnbull stressed that the legitimacy of claims to the reefs and shoals in the South China Sea should be a secondary consideration on the objective of preserving international order.

"So central is the Asia Pacific to the world economy, to global stability, that the preservation of the international order and the peace that it brings has been a consistent and absolutely central objective of both the United States and Australia," the Australian leader said.

Turnbull admitted that all nations would agree that the world has benefited from China's rise but the disruption and instability in the region is a threat.

*READ: *China denies militarization in South China Sea

"We would hope that China’s actions would be carefully calculated to make conflict less likely, not more, and would seek to reassure neighbours of and build their confidence in China’s intention," Turnbull said.

The Australian Prime Minister said that he is looking forward to the decision of the Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague, Netherlands on the case of the Philippines against China's nine-dash line claim over the South China Sea.

Turnbull also said that he is looking forward to the US ratifying the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea.

"The US already observes the treaty, which is a product of American leadership and crucial for resolving potential flashpoints in many parts of the globe. Non-ratification diminishes American leadership where it is most needed," the Australian Prime Minister said.

*RELATED:* US, Australia warn China on sea access | China warns Australia not to take sides on sea row

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ahojunk

China’s new base at Yongshu (Fiery Cross) Island, already appears to be sophisticated; extensive structures, likely to serve as water capture reservoirs and fuel bunkers, have been dug into the coral substrate and covered with a protective layer of sand, as seen in imagery from January 8, 2016.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Pinoy

World | Thu Feb 18, 2016
WASHINGTON| BY DAVID BRUNNSTROM







*The United States and the European Union warned China on Wednesday that it should respect an international court ruling expected later this year on its dispute with the Philippines over territory in the South China Sea.*

China claims virtually all the South China Sea and rejects the authority of the Permanent Court of Arbitration in the Hague hearing the dispute, even though Beijing has ratified the U.N. Convention on the Law of the Sea on which the case is based.

*Amy Searight, U.S. deputy assistant secretary of defence for South and Southeast Asia, said the United States, the European Union, and allies like Australia, Japan and South Korea must be ready to make clear that the court's ruling must be binding and that there would be costs to China for not respecting it if it lost the case.*

*"We need to be ready to be very loud and vocal, in harmony together, standing behind the Philippines and the rest of the ASEAN claimants to say that this is international law, this is incredibly important, it is binding on all parties," *she told a seminar at Washington's Center for Strategic and International Studies.

Searight said the message to China, if it did not respect a negative ruling, should be, *"we will hold you accountable."*

"Certainly, reputational cost is at stake, but we can think of other creative ways to perhaps impose costs as well," she said without elaborating.

*The Hague tribunal has no powers of enforcement and its rulings have been ignored before. Manila has said the court may hand down a ruling before May.*

China disputes South China Sea territory with several other members of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) as well as the Philippines.

Klaus Botzet, head of the political section of the EU Delegation in Washington, said it was difficult to oppose world opinion.

*"A joint Western, a joint world opinion, matters also for Beijing," *he said.

*"If we unanimously support that international law as formulated by the international tribunal in the Hague ... needs to be upheld, that's a very strong message and will be very difficult to ignore," *he said.

Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong Lei said he had "noted" the comments, and repeated China's opposition to the arbitration case and refusal to participate.

The Philippines' "scheme would never succeed", he told a daily news briefing in Beijing.

In unusually forthright language, Botzet said China's policy of military buildup was not in its interest.

"It's investing much more in its military relative to its economic growth; it's forcing its neighbours into alliances against itself; positions its neighbours otherwise wouldn't take and the return on investment on this policy is negative," he said.

The United States had exceptional military capabilities in the Asia-Pacific, Botzet said, adding that the European Union "strongly supports the American guarantee of international law in Asia."


(Additional reporting by Michael Martina in BEIJING; Editing by Bernard Orr and Clarence Fernandez)

U.S. and EU warn China on need to respect South China Sea ruling| Reuters

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## sword1947

who care their rule? we have our rule, we follow ours

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## dichoi

.
*U.S. Navy plans more South China Sea patrols in 2016*
By David Larter, Staff writer1:47 p.m. EST December 19, 2015

The destroyer Lassen's vaunted patrol within the 12-nautical-mile limit of China's man-made South China Sea islands in October was the first challenge of China's sovereignty over the Spratly Islands since the land-reclamation began. Officials say the U.S. intends to continue periodic patrols to establish freedom of navigation, laying the stakes for more confrontations.

Six nations lay claim to parts or all of the Spratly Islands, a collection of reefs, rocks and other natural features. In the last two years, China has begun constructing islands on top of the reefs and claiming territorial seas around them to gain fishing and resource rights to most of the South China Sea.




NAVY TIMES

U.S. Navy sends destroyer by man-made islands in challenge to China's claims


Heading in to 2016, U.S. officials say that more patrols by Navy ships and aircraft are coming. Legal experts say these patrols are the only way to protect freedom of navigation rights disputed by China.

"We need to remind ourselves that [the] U.S. Navy ... has been conducting freedom of navigation operations since Jimmy Carter was in office," said Craig Allen, a professor of marine and environmental affairs at the University of Washington School of Law. "If you simply acquiesce to somebody else's claims, you could lose your rights."

The Navy's 7th Fleet, based in Japan, regularly patrols the South China Sea and other nations, including Japan, are considering joining the patrols. The Singapore-based littoral combat ship Fort Worth could also be tasked with a patrol but Navy officials say that is less likely — the Navy tends to dispatch front-line combatants such as destroyers and cruisers into contested waters.

U.S. Navy plans more South China Sea patrols in 2016

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Dungeness

U.S is not exactly the role model for " following the international rules", so it doesn't really have a position in preaching others. The end of day, "National Interest" RULES.

Reactions: Like Like:
12


----------



## beijingwalker

US is not even a member of the so called international court. why afraid of joining first? Cause US is the very countries which broke the international law numerous times . Such a big big irony ,see who is talking

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## sicsheep

Pinoy said:


> World | Thu Feb 18, 2016
> WASHINGTON| BY DAVID BRUNNSTROM
> 
> View attachment 294396
> 
> 
> *The United States and the European Union warned China on Wednesday that it should respect an international court ruling expected later this year on its dispute with the Philippines over territory in the South China Sea.*
> 
> China claims virtually all the South China Sea and rejects the authority of the Permanent Court of Arbitration in the Hague hearing the dispute, even though Beijing has ratified the U.N. Convention on the Law of the Sea on which the case is based.
> 
> *Amy Searight, U.S. deputy assistant secretary of defence for South and Southeast Asia, said the United States, the European Union, and allies like Australia, Japan and South Korea must be ready to make clear that the court's ruling must be binding and that there would be costs to China for not respecting it if it lost the case.*
> 
> *"We need to be ready to be very loud and vocal, in harmony together, standing behind the Philippines and the rest of the ASEAN claimants to say that this is international law, this is incredibly important, it is binding on all parties," *she told a seminar at Washington's Center for Strategic and International Studies.
> 
> Searight said the message to China, if it did not respect a negative ruling, should be, *"we will hold you accountable."*
> 
> "Certainly, reputational cost is at stake, but we can think of other creative ways to perhaps impose costs as well," she said without elaborating.
> 
> *The Hague tribunal has no powers of enforcement and its rulings have been ignored before. Manila has said the court may hand down a ruling before May.*
> 
> China disputes South China Sea territory with several other members of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) as well as the Philippines.
> 
> Klaus Botzet, head of the political section of the EU Delegation in Washington, said it was difficult to oppose world opinion.
> 
> *"A joint Western, a joint world opinion, matters also for Beijing," *he said.
> 
> *"If we unanimously support that international law as formulated by the international tribunal in the Hague ... needs to be upheld, that's a very strong message and will be very difficult to ignore," *he said.
> 
> Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong Lei said he had "noted" the comments, and repeated China's opposition to the arbitration case and refusal to participate.
> 
> The Philippines' "scheme would never succeed", he told a daily news briefing in Beijing.
> 
> In unusually forthright language, Botzet said China's policy of military buildup was not in its interest.
> 
> "It's investing much more in its military relative to its economic growth; it's forcing its neighbours into alliances against itself; positions its neighbours otherwise wouldn't take and the return on investment on this policy is negative," he said.
> 
> The United States had exceptional military capabilities in the Asia-Pacific, Botzet said, adding that the European Union "strongly supports the American guarantee of international law in Asia."
> 
> 
> (Additional reporting by Michael Martina in BEIJING; Editing by Bernard Orr and Clarence Fernandez)
> 
> U.S. and EU warn China on need to respect South China Sea ruling| Reuters



Oh China has to obey the ruling, ROFL, even USA does not obey the court rulings.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## beijingwalker

> "Certainly, reputational cost is at stake, but we can think of other creative ways to perhaps impose costs as well," she said without elaborating.



What is that supposed to mean? How creative that can be? Like what they did to Russia? We dare them. China is an economic power house, we can do more damage to them than they us.

"reputational cost is at stake, " Those ignorant American must think that they have a good reputation globally. lol..

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Pinoy

sword1947 said:


> who care their rule? we have our rule, we follow ours


Well it's the International law that the World adhere and respect that will brand your 9 dash lies ILLEGAL and just pure nonsense.






You should thank us for bringing the issue to the Permanent Court of Arbitration. The issue will now be settled once and for all.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## true

China thinks it can bully neighbouring nations in front of real superpowers ,soon they will regret it when their economy crashes .most countries are against China's outrageous claims .

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

China to station Z-18s on expanded Chenhang Island in the Paracels for rescue missions and anti-submarine warfare











according to the Japanese。

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## seven7seven

For those in the anti-China brigade who think the whole World is against China, think again. 

Countries only care about national interests, namely economics, and China is overwhelmingly the largest manufacturing and export nation in the World. Most countries love trading with China because they deliver on time, provide funding for infrastructure projects in developing countries, without any political interference or strings attached and is becoming the biggest market for countries to export goods to. 

China is like the antithesis of USA and most countries appreciate that. They won't overtly show their support to China because they know the current World hegemon is the jealous type that may lash out. China don't need the nice words of support from other nations, they just need their business. 

Most countries in the World don't care that Vietnam and Philippines are a little sour because China are building up in SCS. They won't stop trading with China because of this. China is important to most countries for business. Vietnam and Philippines is way down the importance list for most countries. Pinoys can pin their hopes on a favourable ruling but don't expect it to mean anything to anybody else. It was always a losing battle, even if the ruling went their way.

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## Aepsilons

seven7seven said:


> China is like the antithesis of USA and most countries appreciate that. They won't overtly show their support to China* because they know the current World hegemon is the jealous type that may lash out*. China don't need the nice words of support from other nations, they just need their business.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## dichoi

.
*US-China naval clash unlikely despite Chinese missile deployment: IHS*
BY DOUG TSURUOKA _on_ FEBRUARY 17, 2016 _in_ ASIA TIMES NEWS & FEATURES, CHINA

A naval confrontation between the China and the US remains “highly unlikely” despite Beijing’s deployment of an advanced surface-to-air missiles (SAM) to an island chain in the South China Sea, says a Wednesday assessment by global insights firm IHS.



Satellite image of Woody Island in Paracels

A naval confrontation between the China and the US remains “highly unlikely” despite Beijing’s deployment of an advanced surface-to-air missiles (SAM) to an island chain in the South China Sea, says a Wednesday assessment by global insights firm IHS.

The stationing of a Chinese fourth-generation SAM system on Woody Island in the South China Sea’s Paracel Island chain is most likely a response to stepped-up US naval activity in the area, according to Omar Hamid, head of Asia analysis for IHS Country Risk. “But, a naval confrontation between China and the US remains highly unlikely,” Hamid said. “China’s approach to the disputed islands continues to be the gradual militarization of the territory under its control, and the creation of a situation of domain awareness and area denial for other regional claimants.”

US officials say satellite imagery shows that China has deployed its HQ-9 air defense system, which is closely patterned after Russia’s S-300 missile system. The HQ-9 has a range of 125 miles, posing a threat to military and civilian aircraft flying within its kill zone.

Hamid says the deployment follows recent activity in the same part of the Paracels, where on Jan. 30, a US guided missile destroyer sailed close to Triton Island. The move followed President Barack Obama’s announcement that US warships would continue to conduct freedom of navigation operations in the region, Hamid said.

Neil Ashdown, the deputy editor of IHS Jane’s Intelligence Review says in a separate analysis that China’s deployment signals “a significant military escalation” in the area. “This leapfrogs steps such as deploying shorter-range systems and increasing the tempo of visits by military aircraft to the islands,” Ashdown said. “However, the deployment is still less significant from a military perspective for the US and others than the deployment of systems such as the YJ-type anti-ship cruise missiles.”

Ashdown speculates the missiles are intended to send a message to the US and other South China Sea claimants following freedom of navigation operations conducted by US naval vessels in October 2015 and January 2016.”

“The Paracel Islands are closer to mainland China than the Spratly Islands, which Beijing may see as making the deployment less provocative,” the analyst added. “While significant land reclamation work has taken place on Woody Island, it is also indisputably an island for legal purposes, meaning its status is less contentious than some of the features that China has expanded in the Spratlys, for example Subi Reef, which was submerged at high tide before the reclamation work took place.”

*Share this:*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ahojunk

*Washington's destabilizing role in South China Sea*
(Xinhua) 16:44, February 18, 2016





South China Sea. (Photo/Xinhua)​BEIJING, Feb. 18 -- After failing to get its way at the first U.S.-ASEAN summit in California, Washington appears ready to grasp at anything that could be used against China.

And the media hype over China's deployment of a surface-to-air missile system in Yongxing Island, part of the Xisha Islands in the South China Sea, just provided Washington a much-needed excuse to once again criticize Beijing for its alleged role in "militarizing" the region.

For starters, China has indisputable sovereignty over the Xisha Islands and deploying limited and necessary national defense facilities on China's own territory has nothing to do with militarization in the South China Sea. China has repeatedly made it clear that it has no intention to militarize the region. Its activities are mainly for maintenance purposes, improving the living conditions for the stationed personnel there and providing more public goods in the region.

With trillions of dollars' worth of goods traversing the patch of water every year, the South China Sea is vital both to global trade and to China's development. Beijing has no reason to disrupt one of its own crucial arteries of trade. Meanwhile, the United States, which has become fixated on the South China Sea since Washington announced a pivot to the Asia-Pacific, has been the primary source of destabilization in the area.

It has conducted a slew of naval and air patrol trips in the vicinity of the China-owned islands, which is in clear violation of China's sovereignty, not to mention international law. In addition, it has also reopened military bases in the Philippines, in a move widely interpreted as stirring up tension in the region. Furthermore, some countries in the region are taking more provocative measures to press for illegitimate territorially claims ever since the U.S. put the South China Sea on its radar.

If there were a ranking for destabilizers in the South China Sea, there's no doubt Washington would top the list.

China's practices in the region are defensive in nature, and it sees direct talks between rival claimants rather than military means as the best way to resolve any dispute.

For the sake of regional stability and the common good, let's hope the United States honor its previous commitment of not taking sides on the issue or stirring up tensions. Only then can the South China Sea be home to calm waters.

Reactions: Like Like:

7


----------



## xunzi

Sound like some kinds of blackmail. LOL

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## 911

true said:


> China thinks it can bully neighbouring nations in front of real superpowers ,soon they will regret it when their economy crashes .most countries are against China's outrageous claims .


Not our fight.


----------



## Zero_wing

seven7seven said:


> For those in the anti-China brigade who think the whole World is against China, think again.
> 
> Countries only care about national interests, namely economics, and China is overwhelmingly the largest manufacturing and export nation in the World. Most countries love trading with China because they deliver on time, provide funding for infrastructure projects in developing countries, without any political interference or strings attached and is becoming the biggest market for countries to export goods to.
> 
> China is like the antithesis of USA and most countries appreciate that. They won't overtly show their support to China because they know the current World hegemon is the jealous type that may lash out. China don't need the nice words of support from other nations, they just need their business.
> 
> Most countries in the World don't care that Vietnam and Philippines are a little sour because China are building up in SCS. They won't stop trading with China because of this. China is important to most countries for business. Vietnam and Philippines is way down the importance list for most countries. Pinoys can pin their hopes on a favourable ruling but don't expect it to mean anything to anybody else. It was always a losing battle, even if the ruling went their way.



Funny that's what the American said about Vietnam in the Vietnam War and your people said when we said your Divisions packing the Korean War etc

Let the chinese say, do whatever they want they making enemies everywhere with their arrogance and idiotic notions of entitlements they will get whats coming to them plus the way chinese economy and environment is going its just a matter of time

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Jlaw

I stopped reading after this, lol

"
*The Hague tribunal has no powers of enforcement and its rulings have been ignored before. Manila has said the court may hand down a ruling before May. "*

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## 54ptu

China already gave the finger to Hague by NOT participating in the tribunal，isnt this already a good sign that the ruling will not be respected？

Keep yelling the same old stuff to someone who is the least interested to listen， like this article，only shows what a weak position the PH is acting from，and it really starts to look like an harassment！

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## true

911 said:


> Not our fight.


 it is , China's ridiculous claim actually intersects our trade routs to Japan ,s.Korea ,Vietnam etc . International waters is not China's personal picnic spot .

It is as much of our fight as USA's fight .


----------



## Kwame Brown

Pot. Kettle. Black.


----------



## 911

true said:


> it is , China's ridiculous claim actually intersects our trade routs to Japan ,s.Korea ,Vietnam etc . International waters is not China's personal picnic spot .
> 
> It is as much of our fight as USA's fight .


South China Sea dispute can help India in many ways. Only if India don't take any extreme sides.


----------



## Genesis

Pinoy said:


> Well it's the International law that the World adhere and respect that will brand your 9 dash lies ILLEGAL and just pure nonsense.
> 
> View attachment 294399
> 
> 
> You should thank us for bringing the issue to the Permanent Court of Arbitration. The issue will now be settled once and for all.



lol, they have no power to dictate sovereignty. That isn't even what the Philippines is suing for anyways. What's on the table is what is and isn't an island. The Philippines also don't want anyone telling them what's theirs and what isn't apparently.

Worse case scenario, we'll lose island status for some of the rocks, and Philippines itself will have to redraw the maps as it's claims to large areas are also based on those same islands.

In the worst case scenario for China. Philippines gets a smaller EEZ, but including the rocks, and we'll have bases inside your EEZ. There isn't any international protocol for handing over bases, and certainly no one strong enough to force us.

Even more, even if we do get forced into handing over the islands, it's very simple to delay proceedings. A few hurdles there, a few dollars here, and this can get delayed into the day after hell freezes over.

Then instead of our 9 dash line, we get a huge international water, that belongs to no one, but we will have defacto control, as our navy continue to expand.

So in essence, even if we do follow the decision and you win, in everything but name, nothing will change.



true said:


> it is , China's ridiculous claim actually intersects our trade routs to Japan ,s.Korea ,Vietnam etc . International waters is not China's personal picnic spot .
> 
> It is as much of our fight as USA's fight .



Funny enough that people always forget China is actually there in the area. Your biggest trade partner, China transport three times more goods to you than the countries you listed. Unless we want to sink our own ships, you'll be fine.

If you want to challenge China because you think you are a global power, well, build a navy that's bigger than our South China Sea Fleet and we'll talk. (P.S. I checked, right before this post, you can too if you like)

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## dichoi

.
*South China Sea dispute: Anti-Beijing protesters in Vietnam mark Battle of the Paracel Islands anniversary*







By James LillywhiteJanuary 19, 2016 11:36 GMT
Dozens of anti-China protesters in Vietnam have marked the anniversary of the Battle of the Paracel Islands amid growing tension between the countries.

The demonstration on 19 January in Hanoi was to mark the 42nd anniversary of the conflict in which China took control of a cluster of around 40 islets, outcrops and reefs in the South China Sea. 74 South Vietnamese soldiers died in the conflict in 1974, and incidents have reoccurred in the area since then.

Protester Nguyen Van Phuong said, "We ought to (keep having) this ceremony to pay tribute to the sons who fell for our motherland, that is something we have to do. Secondly, this serves as a wake up call to society because this event has only been happening for the past few years. Before this, the ruling government did not give out information so not many people knew about the Paracel war and the 74 soldiers killed during that war".

On 3 January, Vietnam accused China of violating a recent pact by landing planes on an airstrip built in a contested part of the South China Sea. Beijing has also been accused of opening fire on fishing boats in that part of the ocean, but have defended their actions as a legitimate means of protecting sovereignty.





Well known propaganda movie actress Nguyen Thi Kim Chi was at the demonstration.Reuters/ Kham

The protesters in Hanoi held signs and posters reading "the people will never forget" and chanted "down with invasive China" and "Spratly and Paracels belong to Vietnam". Well known propaganda movie actress Nguyen Thi Kim Chi was one of the protesters involved in the rally.

She said: "We are doing this to remind people to always remember to protect our ocean, our islands and our motherland because we have this so-called 'friend' that has savage aggression plans to invade us and rob us of seas, our skies and our motherland".

China claims almost all the South China Sea, which is believed to have huge deposits of oil and gas, and through which about $5tn in ship-borne trade passes every year.

South China Sea dispute: Anti-Beijing protesters in Vietnam mark Battle of the Paracel Islands anniversary

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## beijingwalker

true said:


> China thinks it can bully neighbouring nations in front of real superpowers ,soon they will regret it when their economy crashes .most countries are against China's outrageous claims .


Your world maybe..

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Zero_wing

Genesis said:


> lol, they have no power to dictate sovereignty. That isn't even what the Philippines is suing for anyways. What's on the table is what is and isn't an island. The Philippines also don't want anyone telling them what's theirs and what isn't apparently.
> 
> Worse case scenario, we'll lose island status for some of the rocks, and Philippines itself will have to redraw the maps as it's claims to large areas are also based on those same islands.
> 
> In the worst case scenario for China. Philippines gets a smaller EEZ, but including the rocks, and we'll have bases inside your EEZ. There isn't any international protocol for handing over bases, and certainly no one strong enough to force us.
> 
> Even more, even if we do get forced into handing over the islands, it's very simple to delay proceedings. A few hurdles there, a few dollars here, and this can get delayed into the day after hell freezes over.
> 
> Then instead of our 9 dash line, we get a huge international water, that belongs to no one, but we will have defacto control, as our navy continue to expand.
> 
> So in essence, even if we do follow the decision and you win, in everything but name, nothing will change.
> 
> 
> 
> Funny enough that people always forget China is actually there in the area. Your biggest trade partner, China transport three times more goods to you than the countries you listed. Unless we want to sink our own ships, you'll be fine.
> 
> If you want to challenge China because you think you are a global power, well, build a navy that's bigger than our South China Sea Fleet and we'll talk. (P.S. I checked, right before this post, you can too if you like)



Man ego much well pride and falls comes to mind anyhow really then your whole argument negates the whole we owned the whole sea part this what happens if your country education system is 80% propaganda and 20% facts


----------



## true

beijingwalker said:


> Your world maybe..



what kind of idiotic "proof" is this? what does this list got to do with the counties in the territory dispute? seriously just look how dumb your argument is, In the list India has a majority positive view on china, so are you really that dense to think Indian citizens would support china's territory claims ,just because they have positive view on china on a random survey ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## true

Genesis said:


> Funny enough that people always forget China is actually there in the area. Your biggest trade partner, China transport three times more goods to you than the countries you listed. Unless we want to sink our own ships, you'll be fine.
> 
> If you want to challenge China because you think you are a global power, well, build a navy that's bigger than our South China Sea Fleet and we'll talk. (P.S. I checked, right before this post, you can too if you like)



geo politics, contracts all goes down the drain in a war, if personal interests favor them, Europe has proved this multiple times since the beginning of the last century.Hell china threats USA who is its largest trade partner. India and China regardless of its disputes in the the 60's are the largest economies in asia ,leaving japan, and the leading members of the BRICS , through developing closer ties in the past two decades the trade ratio was inevitable , just like Japan.


----------



## ahojunk

In addition to the ongoing expansion of its facilities at Woody Island, China has increase Duncan Island by 50 percent. There is a protected harbor and currently building a helicopter base on the island, with eight designated landing zones in place and four others likely to be completed soon.












Map of the location of Duncan Island, in relation to Woody Island, etc.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Ewok6102

true said:


> are you really that dense to think Indian citizens would support china's territory claims ,just because they have positive view on china on a random survey?



Does China need Indian citizen's support regarding something they have no business with? And do you honestly think the Chinese cares about what Indians think about the South China sea? Indian citizen's opinion will most likely fall on deaf ears.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## dichoi

*Top Republican senator welcomes US warship patrol of SCS*
BY : PTI

UPDATED ON : Sunday, January 31, 2016 02:02 PM

.





*Washington :-*
A top Republican senator has welcomed the move to send a US guided missile destroyer within 12 nautical miles of an island in the disputed South China Sea claimed by China, Taiwan and Vietnam “to challenge excessive maritime claims” that restrict freedom of navigation.

“I am encouraged to hear that the US Navy has conducted a freedom of navigation operation near Triton Island in the Paracel Islands in the South China Sea,” Senator John McCain, Chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee said yesterday.

This operation challenged excessive maritime claims that restrict the rights and freedoms of the US and other nations under international law, he said.

“I continue to hope these operations will become so routine that China and other claimants will come to accept them as normal occurrences and releasing press statements to praise them will no longer be necessary,” McCain said.

The “freedom of navigation operation” was conducted yesterday near Triton Island in the South China Sea, rich in natural resources and a major shipping lane. Over half of the world’s commercial shipping passes through the Indo-Pacific waterways including one-third of the world’s liquefied natural gas.

The development comes three months after US warship USS Lassen sailed within 12 nautical miles of an artificial island Beijing is building in the Spratly Islands, triggering a major face-off.

Top Republican senator welcomes US warship patrol of SCS

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

ahojunk said:


> In addition to the ongoing expansion of its facilities at Woody Island, China has increase Duncan Island by 50 percent. There is a protected harbor and currently building a helicopter base on the island, with eight designated landing zones in place and four others likely to be completed soon.
> 
> View attachment 294511
> 
> 
> View attachment 294512
> 
> 
> 
> Map of the location of Duncan Island, in relation to Woody Island, etc.
> 
> View attachment 294513



Zhongjiandao（Triton Island）is next。

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## beijingwalker

true said:


> what kind of idiotic "proof" is this? what does this list got to do with the counties in the territory dispute? seriously just look how dumb your argument is, In the list India has a majority positive view on china, so are you really that dense to think Indian citizens would support china's territory claims ,just because they have positive view on china on a random survey ?


Hi, idiot.You didn't mention the contested nations in your previous And who cares what you Indians think. your are just a irrelevant minor player on the world stage. India is hated by almost all its neighbors , you still have the shame to talk about China. Care about your business and if you want a fight, we will surely bring the fight to your doorstep like we did before.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## true

Ewok6102 said:


> Does China need Indian citizen's support regarding something they have no business with? And do you honestly think the Chinese cares about what Indians think about the South China sea? Indian citizen's opinion will most likely fall on deaf ears.


no they don't. and i never siad they needed Indian support or permission , so what are you talking about? its the Chinese users here that are dragging India into this.
also India has a 40 billion worth of business through that international territory




beijingwalker said:


> Hi, idiot.You didn't mention the contested nations in your previous And who cares what you Indians think. your are just a irrelevant minor player on the world stage. India is hated by almost all its neighbors , you still have the shame to talk about China. Care about your business and if you want a fight, we will surely bring the fight to your doorstep like we did before.



this isn't Chinese media to sell retarded propaganda , to start off what part of *" **China's outrageous claims**" *from my post didn't you understand as disputed territory claims. your entire argument right now is built on bias selective reading.


secondly nearly every country neighboring china historically hates it , japan,Hong Kong, Bhutan, Afghanistan, India ,south Korea, Malaysia, Vietnam, Nepal ,twain , Philippines .etc hell nearly every country it neighbors has had heated disputes, including Russia. their relationship is sore at best.


thirdly if you think the 7th largest economy and 4th most powerful military in the world is irreverent then you are beyond delusional.



> we will surely bring the fight to your doorstep like we did before


right and japan will conquer Manchuria like they did before

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## beijingwalker

Unlike India, which is hated by every neighbor, has just a few bordering countries, China has 14 land neighbors and most of them have very friendly relations with China and India is the only country out of 14 that has land disputes with China. all other land disputes China used to have with others were all settled peacefully on friendly terms. China is a huge country sitting across North Asian, East Asia, Central Asia, South Asia and South East Asia. Those who have island disputes countries are mostly South Eastern Asian countries which are not our immediate neighbors.

As for India, China can add an India to China's GDP every couple of years. For military prowess, it's hard to say, US is a clear leader and rankings for other countries are very murky, so don't boast here, Your Army hasn't been proved of any worth in major conflicts. And you GDP ranks the 9th, roughly one fifth of China's.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Ewok6102

true said:


> no they don't. and i *never siad they needed Indian support or permission* , so what are you talking about?



Please read your post again.

You were the one talking about the support from Indian citizen. As if China and its people will care for Indian's support on its own dispute with neighbours. 



true said:


> also India has a* 40 billion* worth of business



Have a guess how much business China brings into and through that region. Hence the need for China (world's second largest economy) to secure its territory and national interests there.



true said:


> through that *international territory*



Tell the Vietnamese those islands they claim and its surrounding waters belong to the "international" community. See what they will have to say about it.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## true

Ewok6102 said:


> Please read your post again.
> 
> You were the one talking about the support from Indian citizen. As if China and its people will care for Indian's support on its own dispute with neighbours.



no i wasn't , look at my post , i was saying how ridiculous the "proof" is because India has a majority positive view ,yet no one in india will support china's claims. the same concept applies to every other country in that list.



> Have a guess how much business China brings into and through that region. Hence the need for China (world's second largest economy) to secure its territory and national interests there.



why does that matter, its not Indian business, in Geo politics is only motivated by self interests. that 40 billion reflects Indian bilateral trades .



> Tell the Vietnamese those islands they claim and its surrounding waters belong to the "international" community. See what they will have to say about it.



no one is going to recognize individual claims from a globally reconfigured international territory.




beijingwalker said:


> Unlike India, which is hated by every neighbor, has just a few bordering countries, China has 14 land neighbors and most of them have very friendly relations with China and India is the only country out of 14 that has land disputes with China.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> based on what , your propaganda? every day we read china oppressing its neighbors .if you call those relationships as "*friendly*" then Indian bilateral relationships are blood brothers.
> 
> Nepal , Bhutan , India share open borders, India is Afghanistan and Iran's closest allies. do you know what's common in all of them , they historically hate china. Apart from Pakistan and China ,India has friendly refashions with every other country out there including your precious north and south korea. you are talking about a country that supports both Palestine and Israel , while maintaining friendly with both.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> all other land disputes China used to have with others were all settled peacefully on friendly terms. China is a huge country sitting across North Asian, East Asia, Central Asia, South Asia and South East Asia. Those who have island disputes countries are mostly South Eastern Asian countries which are not our immediate neighbors.
> 
> annexing neighboring countries , who were internationally recognized as sovereign states, for half a century in not my definition of "peaceful". its more related to
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for India, China can add an India to China's GDP every couple of years. For military prowess, it's hard to say, US is a clear leader and rankings for other countries are very murky, so don't boast here, Your Army hasn't been proved of any worth in major conflicts. And you GDP ranks the 9th, roughly one fifth of China's.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sure spread more propaganda -_-
> 
> to start off this "current" price image you are flinging here is outdated ,
> 
> 
> 
> with 2013 fall values. this is the current stats, India ranks 7th in GDP nominal and 3 in PPP
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> not saying chinese economy isn't larger, but like greece a significent chunk is fake ,as stated by every respected economist out there for a decade
> 
> 
> Chinese Officials Admit They Faked Economic Figures - Fortune
> China GDP: Economists think the numbers might be fake | Business News | News | The Independent
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your Army hasn't been proved of any worth in major conflicts. And you GDP ranks the 9th, roughly one fifth of China's.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> more BS prpoganda as stated by above facts
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## dichoi

.
*Vietnam requests China to end Hoang Sa sovereignty violations*
VNA FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 19, 2016 - 18:10:28 





Foreign Ministry’s Spokesperson Le Hai Binh (Photo: VNA)

*Hanoi (VNA)* – Vietnam demands China end its wrongful activities on Hoang Sa (Paracel) Archipelago, said Foreign Ministry’s Spokesperson Le Hai Binh on February 19.

He made the remarks in reply to reporters’ queries on China’s construction of a military helicopter base on Quang Hoa Island and its deployment of HQ-9 surface-to-air missiles on Phu Lam Island of Vietnam’s Hoang Sa Archipelago.

“ Vietnam is deeply concerned over China ’s aforementioned activities, which seriously violate Vietnam ’s sovereignty of the archipelago and threaten peace and stability in the region, as well as navigation and aviation security, safety and freedom in the East Sea ,” he said. “ Vietnam demands China immediately end these wrongdoings.”

The same day the Ministry of Foreign Affairs sent a diplomatic note to the Chinese Embassy in Hanoi to protest against China’s infringements on Vietnam’s sovereignty on Hoang Sa Archipelago.

Vietnam’s permanent mission to the UN also sent a diplomatic note to the UN Secretary-General proposing the official circulation of the Vietnamese foreign ministry’s diplomatic note.-VNA

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ahojunk

Besides Xisha and Nansha Islands, there are others. One is the Dongsha (Pratas) Atoll.
The atoll is located between Hainan and Taiwan. 






Some pictures of Dongsha (Pratas) Atoll.












Some pictures of the Island.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## dichoi

*Japan defence paper slams China's 'coercive' maritime demands*

*Japan on Tuesday slammed Beijing's bid to reclaim land in the South China Sea as a "coercive attempt" to force sweeping maritime claims, in a defence paper that comes as Tokyo is expanding the role of its own military.*

Posted 22 Jul 2015 03:25
TOKYO: Japan on Tuesday slammed Beijing's bid to reclaim land in the South China Sea as a "coercive attempt" to force sweeping maritime claims, in a defence paper that comes as Tokyo is expanding the role of its own military.

Tokyo said China was acting "unilaterally and without compromise", as it also highlighted concern about North Korea's nuclear programme and Russian moves in violence-wracked Ukraine.

The white paper accused Beijing of "raising concerns among the international community" as it ramped up criticism from last year's report, an annual summary of Japan's official view on defence matters.

"China, particularly over maritime issues, continues to act in an assertive manner, including coercive attempts at changing the status quo, and is poised to fulfil its unilateral demands without compromise," said the report entitled "Defence of Japan 2015".

China is locked in disputes with several countries over its claims to almost the entire South China Sea and is currently pursuing a rapid programme of artificial island construction in the region.

It is also embroiled in a separate row with Japan over the Tokyo-controlled Senkaku islands - which it calls the Diaoyus - in the East China Sea, as Chinese ships and aircraft regularly test Japanese forces in the area.

While the Sino-Japanese spat has cooled considerably over the last 12 months or so, observers have warned that it could spiral into a limited armed conflict.

Separately, Japan has complained that China may have started offshore drilling for gas in the disputed waters. "Japan has repeatedly lodged protests against China's unilateral development and demanded the termination of such works," the report said.

The document repeated Tokyo's concerns over China's growing assertiveness and widening naval reach in the Pacific and over what it calls the "opaqueness" of Beijing's sky-rocketing military budget. But it also noted that China has worked to set up an emergency hotline with Tokyo to prevent unintended conflicts at sea.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Globenim

In other news ISIS demands China to respect decission by international sharia courts ruling Jihadists butchering Chinese civilians as just and stop harrassing terrorists freedom of navigating their knifes into your necks or abdomen. China once said they respect muslims after all. So obviously they have to tolerate every arbitrary wim by lawbreaker and terrorists too.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## zheng2

Pinoy said:


> Well it's the International law that the World adhere and respect that will brand your 9 dash lies ILLEGAL and just pure nonsense.
> 
> View attachment 294399
> 
> 
> You should thank us for bringing the issue to the Permanent Court of Arbitration. The issue will now be settled once and for all.


his seas are the result for the WW2.and those seas were ordered belong to china in the agreement that america signed.And the most important is,there were no countries at that time circled the south china sea when the agreement was signed!
so **** that international law,who the heck want those seas before the oil was found.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zero_wing

Wow looks like we have a classical case of ego with side of stupid and ignorance are you aware of china's falling economy? oh your top now the way your country being run its all going down in few decades and not to mention many foreign investors are leaving china plus the pollution and the lack of protection of copyright etc its just bad case with your country so please make your stupid comments call names soon you people will be clean our toilets for few cents well its expected from person who's people are well known to be ill mattered just typical barbaric people.


----------



## ahojunk

Some satellite pictures.





Chigua reef is on the bottom with Ccllins reef at the top.





On the left is Ximen, on the right is Dongmen (Gaven) Reef.





From left to right - Ximen reef, Dongmen reef and Anle reef.





Alicia Annie Reef (Xian'e) - taken by the ISS.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cirr

Long Live the Motherland！

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## ahojunk

cirr said:


> Long Live the Motherland！
> 
> View attachment 294935


.
Now, this is one good looking hotel and casino.

I wonder when it is open for tourism.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cnleio

cirr said:


> Long Live the Motherland！
> 
> View attachment 294935

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Ewok6102

true said:


> no i wasn't , look at my post , i was saying how ridiculous the "proof" is because India has a majority positive view ,yet *no one in india will support china's claims.* the same concept applies to every other country in that list.



Yet your government won't come out and challenge China on it. India has no part to play on the regional disputes and your people's opinion matters little.



true said:


> why does that matter, its not Indian business, *in Geo politics is only motivated by self interests. that 40 billion reflect Indian bilateral trades*.



Hence China's official political stance on that part of the region. We have trades in its trillions running through that region. It is an important part of our national interest which we must protect.



true said:


> *no one is going to recognize* individual claims from a globally reconfigured international territory.



And no claimants cares what the outsiders think of their individual claims. Ones who say they care did nothing to help, other than offer useless rhetorics and political posturing.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## dichoi

.
*Amid South China Sea Tensions, Japan Strengthens Ties With Philippines, Vietnam*
The South China Sea is a large part of Tokyo’s calculations, but aid to Manila and Hanoi has a decades-long history.





By Mina Pollmann
December 02, 2015




As China’s construction projects and the United States’ freedom of navigation operations ratchet up tensions in the South China Sea, Japan is increasing its cooperation with other claimant states – most notably the Philippines and Vietnam. Japan’s Official Development Assistance (ODA) plays a large role in this cooperation.

Japan and the Philippines became “strategic partners”back in 2011. Security cooperation has increased since then: Japan and the Philippines took a more concrete step recently when the Japan Marine United Corp won a bid to supply the Philippine Department of Transportation and Communications with ten multirole response vessels this past April. Indicating how seriously Japan takes the relationship, PHP 7.4 billion out of the PHP 8.8 billion (around $200 million) cost for the ten boats actually comes from Japanese ODA to the Philippines. The Philippine government is only putting down PHP 1.4 billion (just under $30 million) for the purchase. Deliveries are expected to take place from 2016 to 2018. Meanwhile, in May, Japan and the Philippines conducted their first joint naval exercises in the South China Sea.

When Filipino President Benigno Aquino III visited Tokyo in June, he signed the Joint Declaration on the Strengthened Strategic Partnership with Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe. During that visit, both sides agreed to explore the transfer of Japanese military hardware and technology to the Philippines and to start discussions on a visiting forces agreement.

After a bilateral meeting with Aquino on the sidelines of the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) summit in late November, Abe said in a press statement, “We welcomed in principle on transfer of defense equipmentand agreed to work together for the early signing of agreement and realization of cooperation in defense equipment.” Furthermore, he added that Aquino requested a “provision of large patrol vessels to the Philippine Coast Guard and Japan would like to consider the specifics of the matter.”

_Asahi Shimbun_ reported last week that Japan is considering offering secondhand TC-90 twin-engine turboprop aircraft, used for Japan’s Maritime Self-Defense Force’s (MSDF) training, to the Philippines. Manila is likely to use these planes for patrol missions over the South China Sea.

Cooperation with the Philippines perhaps should come more naturally, as both Japan and the Philippines are U.S. treaty allies. From that perspective, Japan’s cooperation with Vietnam is more indicative of just how concerned Japan is with China’s ability to get away with unilateral actions in maritime disputes.

Japan has been “strategic partners” with Vietnam longer – their history dates back to 2006, when Abe was prime minister for the first time, actually. Cooperation with Vietnam has also been increasing recently. For example, Japan promised to provide Vietnam with six vessels last year; delivery is expected to be completed this year. The six vessels consist of two former Japanese Fishery Agency patrol boats and four used commercial fishing boats, intended for patrolling purposes. The deal is financed through an ODA package worth 500 million yen (around $4 million).

Following defense consultations in early November, Japan and Vietnam agreed that MSDF vessels will be allowed to make port calls in Cam Ranh Bay. Cam Ranh Bay is a deep-water harbor in central Vietnam alongside the South China Sea and has a strong historical association with Russia (and before that, the Soviet Union). Joint naval exercises between the MSDF and Vietnamese Navy were also discussed.

In all these different aspects of cooperation, Japan is able to do so much because of its economic superpower status. Though Japan’s aid has often been dismissed as purely economic – and, indeed, that is how Japanese aid got started, as reparations to Southeast Asian states designed to boost Japan’s own domestic economic growth – it has gained a strategic element since as early as the 1980s and the 1990s.

Before the 1980s, Japan’s aid to the Philippines was about smoothing Japanese businesses’ entry into the market. However, as the United States began demanding Japan do more to provide for regional security, instead of increasing its defense spending, Japan responded by increasing its share of donor responsibilities in support of the Philippines’ economic recovery. Akira Takahashi describes this as _katagawari_ (taking on someone else’s responsibility), and argued that “Japan’s ODA to the Philippines is most clearly an issue of triangular relations among the U.S., the Philippines, and Japan.” Japan increased its aid to the Philippines because of the recognition that stability in this archipelagic state was vital to Japan’s own security.

With regards to Vietnam, again, the situation was a bit more complicated. Japan froze ODA following Vietnam’s invasion of Cambodia in December 1978. In the early 1990s, Japan had to be careful about resuming aid until the U.S.-Vietnam relationship improved, according to Junichi Inada. Japan did not want to get ahead of the United States, but also recognized that giving aid to Vietnam would not only be about Japan’s business interests, but about reintegrating Vietnam into the region. There were political motivations driving Japan’s desire to resume aid.

This informal recognition that foreign aid should not only be an economic tool but a foreign policy tool developed in the 1990s and was made explicit in Japan’s updated ODA charter. Japan’s ODA charter, first adopted in 1992, then revised in 2003, was updated again in February 2015. The charter declares, “The objectives of Japan’s ODA are to contribute to the peace and development of the international community, and thereby to _help ensure Japan’s own security and prosperity_ (emphasis added).”

Under the new charter, Japan is allowed to send aid to foreign militaries for non-combat use, though military aid should still be avoided. But, depending on how the charter is read, Japan could still justify “non-combat” surveillance assets, including radar systems, maritime surveillance aircraft, and other intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance hardware. This could be particularly useful for the Philippines and Vietnam, of course.

Japan is interested in what China does, and has a stake in how the disputes in the South China Sea are resolved for many reasons. First, Japan is concerned about the impact of tensions in the South China Sea on Japanese shipping – and by extension – its economy; second, Japan wants to mitigate the “Finlandization” of littoral states in the absence of outside balancing; third, Japan is obsessed with upholding international law and preventing China from setting a negative precedent that force can be used to resolve territorial disputes (a precedent which could have repercussions for Japan’s own island dispute with China in the East China Sea); and fourth, Japan wants to entice greater U.S. commitment to Japan’s security by demonstrating that Japan is willing and able to “burden-share” in providing security to the Asia-Pacific.

For all these reasons, expect to see continued Japanese cooperation with the Philippines and Vietnam – through ODA, defense equipment transfers, and other means.

Amid South China Sea Tensions, Japan Strengthens Ties With Philippines, Vietnam | The Diplomat



cirr said:


> Long Live the Motherland！
> 
> View attachment 294935



shoot up ! China taken with force. There is illegal action of Chinese aggressor in sea territory of Vietnam.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## SEAISI

From this




to this





Good work! 

And what makes me feel even better is the viets jumping and crying. But nothing they can do to change it

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## ahojunk

SEAISI said:


> From this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> to this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good work!
> 
> And what makes me feel even better is the viets jumping and crying. But nothing they can do to change it


@SEAISI 
A small note - The top picture is that of Dongmen Island and the bottom picture is that of Nanxun Island. However, due to the "standardization", the buildings on the new islands are very similar, so they could be easily mistaken for each other.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Pulsar

Dungeness said:


> U.S is not exactly the role model for " following the international rules", so it doesn't really have a position in preaching others. The end of day, "National Interest" RULES.


If as you say, "National Interest" RULES, then why are you wasting everyone's time as a permanent member in the UN Security Council? You need to make way for others who follow the rule of law.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## HongWu002

Sounds like a threat to put Hawaii on the list of targets in the event of any attack on our Spratly island bases! Another powerful move!

Beijing says bolstering S. China Sea defense same as US presence in Hawaii — RT News

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Dungeness

Pulsar said:


> If as you say, "National Interest" RULES, then why are you wasting everyone's time as a permanent member in the UN Security Council? You need to make way for others who follow the rule of law.




China and other 4 CREATED the UN. There was no India back then, sorry.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Oldman1

HongWu002 said:


> Sounds like a threat to put Hawaii on the list of targets in the event of any attack on our Spratly island bases! Another powerful move!
> 
> Beijing says bolstering S. China Sea defense same as US presence in Hawaii — RT News


Possible another Pearl Harbor?


----------



## Dungeness

Oldman1 said:


> Possible another Pearl Harbor?




How did come to that?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Penguin

HongWu002 said:


> Sounds like a threat to put Hawaii on the list of targets in the event of any attack on our Spratly island bases! Another powerful move!
> 
> Beijing says bolstering S. China Sea defense same as US presence in Hawaii — RT News


What an idiot comparison, since HawaiI is not contested by the US's neighbours. Typical Russian RT garbage

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## dichoi

.
Freedom of navigation and overflight in the South China Sea were discussed by Malcolm Turnbull in his recent trip to the US. Picture: Nathan Edwards

*Malcolm Turnbull weighs South China Sea exercises*

THE AUSTRALIAN
JANUARY 26, 2016 12:00AM
SAVE
Greg Sheridan[/paste:font]



Foreign Editor
Melbourne





Freedom of navigation and overflight in the South China Sea were discussed by Malcolm Turnbull in his recent trip to the US. Picture: Nathan Edwards

*The Turnbull government is considering formal freedom of navigation exercises to dispute Chinese territorial claims in the South China Sea.*



The national security committee of cabinet has, over a period of months, been briefed on all the available options and combinations possible for such an exercise by Australian planes or ships.

The Turnbull government has not decided whether to conduct such an exercise, and if it did so, when and exactly what form such an exercise would take.

Sources have told _The Australian _that freedom of navigation and overflight in the South China Sea were discussed by Malcolm Turnbull in his recent trip to the US. Both the Americans, and a number of Southeast Asian nations, have communicated to Canberra their support for a separate Australian freedom of navigation exercise.


According to sources, the Japanese have offered to participate in such an exercise in partnership with US naval vessels, but Washington’s judgment, at this stage, is that any circumstance that brings Chinese and Japanese vessels into potential unfriendly contact is best avoided.

Washington, Tokyo, Canberra and a number of Southeast Asian capitals have called for freedom of navigation and overflight in the South China Sea, and have criticised Beijing’s massive land reclamation activities and installation of potential military bases in the disputed region.

A freedom of navigation exercise would involve sailing or flying within the 12-nautical-mile territorial waters zone of a disputed territory. Under international law, an artificial island cannot generate territorial waters.

Therefore, even if Beijing’s broad territorial claims in the South China Sea were valid, the artificial islands they built do not legally generate a 12NM territorial waters limit.

Beijing has created several such artificial islands in the South China Sea. Under its “nine dash line” maps, Beijing claims almost all of the South China Sea as Chinese territory.

In October, Washington sent the USS Lassen into a claimed Chinese 12NM zone as part of a formal FON exercise. The US also sent vessels through the territorial waters of land-reclamation structures created by The Philippines and Vietnam to demonstrate that it was not objecting only to China’s activities, although China’s land reclamation efforts dwarf all activities of other regional nations.

In November, an Australian air force plane flew over disputed waters in the South China Sea and was challenged by the Chinese navy, which advised the RAAF plane it was “threatening the security of our station” and told it to “leave immediately”.

The RAAF pilot involved radioed to the Chinese: “We are an Australian aircraft exercising freedom-of-navigation rights in international airspace.”

The RAAF plane was not flying directly within the 12NM territorial water zone.

Depending on the altitude of a plane involved, it can be difficult to triangulate its exact position in terms of territorial waters. The lower the altitude of the plane, the easier it is to make such calculations.

The Chinese are known to challenge planes and ships well outside the 12NM limit of any of their claimed territories. Nonetheless, sources say both the number of RAAF patrols and their tendency to fly within areas where the Chinese don’t want them to fly has increased markedly over the past 12 to 18 months.

The Australian military routinely patrols in the South China Sea, under Operation Gateway. The flights typically take place from Butterworth base in Malaysia, and are normally undertaken by P3-Orion aircraft.

Although these planes have a role in anti-submarine warfare, the primary purpose of their patrols over the South China Sea is intelligence-gathering as part of the “five eyes” intelligence and surveillance operations.

The tempo of these operations had declined in recent years because so much of Australia’s military effort was devoted to the Middle East. This has been reversed in part to respond to Chinese activities in the South China Sea.

If the Turnbull government decides to conduct a formal freedom of navigation exercise, the Orions would be a likely way to do it.

However, Australia also frequently sends frigates, and occasionally supply ships, through the South China Sea on their way to port visits to friendly Asian nations.

Sources suggest the government directed that these missions go through the South China Sea when possible, rather than by any other route, to reinforce Canberra’s insistence on the rights of free passage and over flight in the South China Sea.

Australia traditionally sends its submarines into the South China Sea on intelligence gathering operations.

Because their voyages are by design conducted in stealth, a submarine is not a likely option for a freedom of navigation exercise.

The flight of the RAAF plane that provoked the Chinese navy response has earnt Canberra a good deal of appreciation in Washington.

There have been a number of such flights, and this one became public only because a BBC crew was on a nearby flight and heard the Chinese and Australian radio communications.

Washington sources say that more US freedom of navigation exercises are likely.

Nocookies | The Australian

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Penguin said:


> What an idiot comparison, since HawaiI is not contested by the US's neighbours. Typical Russian RT garbage



Where you get that is the contested land, we stand on our island, we do what ever we want. Hawaii has been stolen by US, they don't have the legal right.

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Nike

Lol, rubbish hawai doesnt be contested by more than six countries.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

madokafc said:


> Lol, rubbish hawai doesnt be contested by more than six countries.



It's not rubbish, if anyone think that's contested island then try take it back from us

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Dungeness

madokafc said:


> Lol, rubbish hawai doesnt be contested by more than six countries.




Well, from China point of view, being contested is one more reason that they need to protect their asset. What else do you expect?

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Pulsar

Dungeness said:


> China and other 4 CREATED the UN. There was no India back then, sorry.


Sorry, but you need to read your history. It was India that was offered a seat in the UNSC as a permanent member back then but, as usual our great leader Nehru refused for some inexplicable reason and instead pushed for China to become a permanent member instead!

Had it not been for Nehru and his silly policies, it would have been India sitting there today. So you need to thank India for this.


----------



## Dungeness

Pulsar said:


> Sorry, but you need to read your history. It was India that was offered a seat in the UNSC as a permanent member back then but, as usual our great leader Nehru refused for some inexplicable reason and instead pushed for China to become a permanent member instead!
> 
> Had it not been for Nehru and his silly policies, it would have been India sitting there today. So you need to thank India for this.




There are two versions of history: one is called History, the other is called Indian History.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Pulsar

Dungeness said:


> There are two versions of history: one is called History, the other is called Indian History.



Don't talk like a knucklehead. Read...


> India was offered a permanent seat on the council 55 years ago, in 1955. But that offer, made by the United States and the Soviet Union, was declined by India's first prime minister, Jawaharlal Nehru. Nehru said the seat should be given to China instead.
> Obama supports adding India as a permanent member of U.N. Security Council


----------



## Oldman1

Dungeness said:


> How did come to that?



Japan view U.S. deployment of warships in Hawaii to its threat to its holdings in Asia. So they made the first move. China seeing Hawaii as a threat to its holdings in South China Sea as a threat as well.


----------



## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Oldman1 said:


> Japan view U.S. deployment of warships in Hawaii to its threat to its holdings in Asia. So they made the first move. China seeing Hawaii as a threat to its holdings in South China Sea as a threat as well.



LOL that's bullsh1t logic, American's China containment policy such as first island Chain is a threat to China, now what we did in SCS is not only to break this chain but to use that chain to our advantage and make American taste their own medicine....that's why you American is crying out loud for freedom of navigation...LMAO what irony.

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Oldman1

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> LOL that's bullsh1t logic, American's China containment policy such as first island Chain is a threat to China, now what we did in SCS is not only to break this chain but to use that chain to our advantage and make American taste their own medicine....that's why you American is crying out loud for freedom of navigation...LMAO what irony.



Just don't want a repeat of history. As you said, you want to expand.


----------



## Dungeness

Pulsar said:


> Don't talk like a knucklehead. Read...



An article on Washington Post is your bible? Show me UN document.

Check this one out. It is dangerous if one takes dream as the reality.

united nations - Did India turn down a permanent seat in the UN in 1955? - History Stack Exchange

The Hindu : Miscellaneous / This Day That Age : dated September 28, 1955: UN seat: Nehru clarifies

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Abacin

Oldman1 said:


> Japan view U.S. deployment of warships in Hawaii to its threat to its holdings in Asia. So they made the first move. China seeing Hawaii as a threat to its holdings in South China Sea as a threat as well.


It is US seeing Chinese deployment in SCS as a threat to USA,. If USA doesn't see as a threat, then just let China do at our will on SCS and peace arrives for China and USA.

China has no interest in US deployment in Hawaii, or even Philippines. We are only interested in US deployment in SCS.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## TaiShang

Penguin said:


> What an idiot comparison, since HawaiI is not contested by the US's neighbours. Typical Russian RT garbage



Nansha and Xisha are not contested, either. People think they do contest.



Oldman1 said:


> Just don't want a repeat of history. As you said, you want to expand.



It won't be repeated, rest assured, since the US will not manage to start a conflict.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Pulsar

Dungeness said:


> *An article on Washington Post is your bible? *Show me UN document.
> 
> Check this one out. It is dangerous if one takes dream as the reality.
> 
> united nations - Did India turn down a permanent seat in the UN in 1955? - History Stack Exchange
> 
> The Hindu : Miscellaneous / This Day That Age : dated September 28, 1955: UN seat: Nehru clarifies


Similarly, Stack Exchange and the Hindu is your bible? 

Nehru would obviously have denied it since he had come under a lot of fire for refusing the seat without consulting the Parliament.

And the UN doesn't record everything!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Speeder 2

HongWu002 said:


> Sounds like a threat to put Hawaii on the list of targets in the event of any attack on our Spratly island bases! Another powerful move!
> 
> Beijing says bolstering S. China Sea defense same as US presence in Hawaii — RT News



Hawaii is not enough, should have been the Caribbeans which are more appropriate.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Dungeness

Pulsar said:


> Similarly, Stack Exchange and the Hindu is your bible?
> 
> Nehru would obviously have denied it since he had come under a lot of fire for refusing the seat without consulting the Parliament.
> 
> And the UN doesn't record everything!




I was hoping you could pick up some critical thinking skills. Never mind, enjoy.


----------



## SEAISI

@ahojunk thanks for the note.

Hope I got it right this time 

From this






to this





Keep up the good work

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Penguin

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Where you get that is the contested land, we stand on our island, we do what ever we want. Hawaii has been stolen by US, they don't have the legal right.



While the US unlawfully annexed Hawaii, it never was contested by other contries. Plus, in 1993, the US acknowledged this as such.

Really, at least attempt to know the history of Hawaii before opening your mouth about it.
Hawaii - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## dichoi

.
*Pentagon Seeks to Deploy Mobile Artillery Near South China Sea*
© Sputnik/
ASIA & PACIFIC
01:38 24.02.2016(updated 11:05 24.02.2016)







*With tensions escalating in the South China Sea, the US Army is discussing the possibility of sending mobile artillery units to the region.*
Over the weekend, US President Barack Obama stated that his administration would continue to challenge Beijing’s territorial claims in the South China Sea.

"We think China is resorting to the old style of might makes right, as opposed to working through international law and international norms to establish claims and to resolve disputes," Obama said in an interview with Channel News Asia.

The US and its Pacific allies have accused China of building artificial islands on top of sensitive marine habitats to establish an air defense zone in the highly contested waterway. China maintains it has every right to build within what it considers to be its own territory, and has stated that the islands will be used primarily for humanitarian purposes.

Beijing has accused Washington of stirring unrest in the region, and new information of additional behind-the-scenes machinations have come to light.

According to a senior US Army official, speaking to Scout Warrior on condition of anonymity, the US may soon deploy mobile artillery, the kind traditionally used in land-based offensives, to the South China Sea, as defensive units.

"We could use existing Howitzers and that type of munition to knock out incoming threats when people try to hit us from the air at long ranges using rockets and cruise missiles," the official said.

Such a plan would require the cooperation of regional allies, who would have to approve the placement of the guns.

"A Howitzer can go where it has to go. It is a way of changing an offensive weapon and using it in dual capacity," the anonymous military official said. "This opens the door to opportunities and options we have not had before with mobile defensive platforms and offensive capabilities."

If approved, Washington’s weapon deployment would continue a pattern of US aggression in the South China Sea. Washington has conducted a number of joint military exercises with regional allies as a show of force against China. Over the past few months, the Pentagon has also begun conducting "freedom of navigation" exercises near Beijing’s artificial islands.

But if mobile offensive units are seen as an effective, cheaper alternative to shooting down missiles or aircraft, they could also be used beyond the Pacific. Military officials suggest that M777 Howitzers and M109 Paladins could also be used in Eastern Europe, to counter Russian "aggression."



Read more: Pentagon Seeks to Deploy Mobile Artillery Near South China Sea


----------



## SEAISI

From this




to this





Bravo

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Jana Assassin

China has absolutely no regard fr its neighbours.. It will keep doing this same song nd dance abt its need to protect the island...

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## dichoi

.
*Philippines allows military deal with U.S. amid South China Sea tension*
MANILA/WASHINGTON — Reuters

Published Tuesday, Jan. 12, 2016 11:25AM EST.Last updated Tuesday, Jan. 12, 2016 12:52PM EST

The Philippines Supreme Court on Tuesday declared a security deal with the United States constitutional as protesters rallied, allowing an increased U.S. military presence in the former U.S. colony as tension rises in the South China Sea.

Manila has long been a staunch U.S. ally and the pact is widely seen as important for both sides, worried by China’s increasingly assertive pursuit of territorial claims in the disputed South China Sea.

The court voted 10-4 to deny a petition of some lawmakers and activists to declare the Enhanced Defence Cooperation Agreement (EDCA) unconstitutional because it surrendered Philippine sovereignty to a foreign power.

“EDCA is not constitutionally infirm,” said Supreme Court spokesman Theodore Te. “It remains consistent with existing laws and treaties that it purports to implement.”

In Washington, U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry called it a “very important decision” as he and U.S. Defense Secretary Ash Carter began talks with their Philippine counterparts on security and economic issues, including tensions in the South China Sea and the Trans-Pacific Partnership trade deal.

“The United States has an iron-clad commitment to the security of the Philippines,” Kerry said in opening remarks. “To that end we welcome the Philippines Supreme Court’s decision ... (and) look forward to implementing this accord,” he added.

The pact, signed days before U.S. President Barack Obama visited the Philippines in 2014, will allow U.S. troops to build facilities to store equipment for maritime security and humanitarian and disaster response operations, in addition to giving broad access to Philippine military bases.

U.S. Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman John McCain called it “a landmark agreement ... (that) will bring our alliance to a level of cooperation and integration that we have not witnessed in decades.

“As Manila finds itself the target of Chinese coercion in the West Philippine Sea and is looking to Washington for leadership, this agreement will give us new tools to ... expand engagement with the Philippine Armed Forces, and enhance our presence in Southeast Asia,” he said in a statement.

McCain said he looked forward to implementation this year of a congressional Maritime Security Initiative he has championed that will provide resources to build the maritime capacity of the Philippines and other Southeast Asia countries.

Dozens of anti-U.S. activists held protests outside the court denouncing the deal as a de facto basing agreement that would make the Philippines “a launching pad for military intervention in the region.”

Philippine military officials say there has been an increase in U.S. exercises, training and ship and aircraft visits in the past year under Obama’s “rebalance” of U.S. forces and diplomatic efforts to Asia in the face of China’s rise, but the pact would take the relationship a step further.

China claims almost all the South China Sea, which is believed to have huge deposits of oil and gas, and has been building up facilities on islands it controls.

Brunei, Malaysia, Vietnam, Taiwan and the Philippines also have claims. Tension rose this month when China began test flights on Fiery Cross Reef, one of three artificial islands where Beijing has constructed airfields.


----------



## SEAISI

Take a closer look. That's a lot of solar panels. Should be able to support high power radars

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## sicsheep

*China has deployed fighter jets to a contested island in the South China Sea amid territorial tensions in the region, media reported.*

MOSCOW (Sputnik) — According to the Fox news television channel's Tuesday report, US intelligence spotted China’s Shenyang J-11 and Xian JH-7s aircraft (NATO reporting names Flanker B+ and Flounder, respectively) on Woody Island in the past few days. Beijing had previously deployed two batteries of HQ-9 surface-to-air missiles on the same island, the media outlet said.



In recent weeks, the United States and Taiwan have warned that China has deployed surface-to-air missiles on Woody Island in the Parcel chain in the South China Sea. The deployment marked the latest step in China’s military buildup in the Parcel and Spratly archipelagos, where at least six nations have overlapping territorial claims.

China, however, argues that both archipelagos are its sovereign territory, a claim that Washington has aggressively challenged by conducting so-called freedom of navigation exercises in which US warships deliberately pass within 12 miles of Chinese held islands.










China Deploys Fighter Jets to Contested South China Sea Island - Reports

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Penguin

Making this a US v China issue is kind of missing the point. It ignores how China apparently seeks to relate to its neighbours. Chinese 'control' over almost entire SCS essentially implies a strategic threat to shipping routes (energy supplies and trade) to Japan, South Korea, Taiwan. And interferes with near coastal waters of Indonesia, Malaysia, Brunei, Phillippines on the one hand and Vietnam on the other. That's 8 countries in the region.

Claims





It's clearly about oil and other resources





A possible alternative






US Navy: China is clearly militarizing the South China Sea | Watch the video - Yahoo News (Ok, its FOX, so take with a pinch of salt. 
China's Putting Anti-Stealth Radar in the South China Sea
U.S. Navy Sets the Record Straight on FONOPs | The National Interest

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## sicsheep

Oldman1 said:


> Just don't want a repeat of history. As you said, you want to expand.



Japan turned out to be just fine, maybe history will repeat, except this time, the other side has nukes too.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## xunzi

Penguin said:


> Making this a US v China issue is kind of missing the point. It ignores how China apparently seeks to relate to its neighbours. Chinese 'control' over almost entire SCS essentially implies a strategic threat to shipping routes (energy supplies and trade) to Japan, South Korea, Taiwan. And interferes with near coastal waters of Indonesia, Malaysia, Brunei, Phillippines on the one hand and Vietnam on the other. That's 8 countries in the region.
> 
> Claims
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's clearly about oil and other resources
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A possible alternative
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US Navy: China is clearly militarizing the South China Sea | Watch the video - Yahoo News (Ok, its FOX, so take with a pinch of salt.
> China's Putting Anti-Stealth Radar in the South China Sea
> U.S. Navy Sets the Record Straight on FONOPs | The National Interest


How does we seek to control SCS? Again, all ships are free to sail through. Not a single ships were strop. We are only concern with other countries violating our territorial rights and its adjacent water through international law. What we did is no different than the Vietnamese building up their fortification or any parties in the SCS.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## dichoi

.US B-52 bombers flew near disputed islands in South China Sea, says Pentagon | World news | The Guardian
*US B-52 bombers flew near disputed islands in South China Sea, says Pentagon*

*http://data:image/jpeg;base64,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 http://data:image/jpeg;base64,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 *
The strategic bombers were contacted by Chinese ground controllers as they took part in what has been described as a ‘routine’ flight

Two US B-52 strategic bombers flew near artificial Chinese-built islands in theSouth China Sea this week and were contacted by Chinese ground controllers but continued their mission undeterred, the Pentagon has revealed.

The latest US patrol in the disputed South China Sea occurred in advance of President Barack Obama’s visit to the region next week to attend Asia-Pacific summits where he is expected the reassert Washington’s commitment to freedom of navigation and overflight in the area.

China claims most of the South China Sea, through which more than $5 trillion in global trade passes every year, and the United States has said it will continue conducting patrols to assure unimpeded passage. Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei, the Philippines and Taiwan have rival claims in the region.

In the latest mission, which occurred overnight on 8-9 November, the bombers flew “in the area” of the Spratly Islands but did not come within the 12-nautical-mile zones that China claims as territory around islands it has built in the chain, said Commander Bill Urban, a Pentagon spokesman.

“The B-52s were on a routine mission in the SCS (South China Sea),” taking off from and returning to Guam, Urban said.

Chinese ground controllers contacted the bombers but the aircraft continued their mission unabated, Urban said.

“We conduct B-52 flights in international air space in that part of the world all the time,” Pentagon spokesman Peter Cook told a news briefing earlier on Thursday.

Last month, a US warship challenged territorial limits around one of China’s man-made islands in the Spratly archipelago with a so-called freedom-of-navigation patrol, the most significant US challenge yet to territorial limits China claims around its new islands. China reacted angrily to the patrol.

White House spokesman Josh Earnest said he did not know whether the South China Sea would be on the formal agenda at any of the three Asia summits that Obama will attend but added that it would be “on the minds and lips” of world leaders who gather there.

Obama’s first stop will be Manila for the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation forum summit, where Chinese President Xi Jinping will also be present. The US president will then go to Kuala Lumpur for ASEAN and East Asia summits.

“We are quite concerned about protecting freedom of navigation, the free flow of commerce in the South China Sea,” Earnest told reporters. “And we’re going to continue to encourage all parties, big and small, to resolve their differences diplomatically and to not try to use their comparative size and strength to intimidate their neighbors.“

In an apparent show of US resolve, Obama will take part in what the White House described as “an event that showcases U.S. maritime security assistance to the Philippines“. US officials did not elaborate.

But in September, Navy Admiral Harry Harris, head of the US Pacific Command, visited the National Coast Watch Center, a facility at the Philippines coast guard headquarters that Washington has helped Manila build to improve its ability to monitor developments in the South China Sea.


----------



## sweetgrape

Chinese post the picture here, Vietnamese post report that most of are about USA or Japan did or said here, Very interesting, I can feel their despise and inability.

By the way, Seems some of their report are old, don't know whether be posted twice or more, not notice that

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## SEAISI

Before





After





I bet there are spaces reserved for viet pirates on this island

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Penguin

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> It's not rubbish, if anyone think that's contested island then try take it back from us


Can't do that, you see, since our philosohpy is not 'might makes right'



xunzi said:


> How does we seek to control SCS? Again, all ships are free to sail through. Not a single ships were strop. We are only concern with other countries violating our territorial rights and its adjacent water through international law. What we did is no different than the Vietnamese building up their fortification or any parties in the SCS.


If that is your concern, proper channels are international court and diplomacy. Not artificial structures on shoals or reefs (around which you then claim a 12nm territorial zone and/or a 200nm EEZ in which China beliefs no warships may enter without persmission, although that is not the common understanding of rules pertaining to EEZ) and militarization of areas (port facilities, airfields, able to accommodate significant surface and air combattants, coupled to radars, some of which OTH).

As for doing the same as e.g. Vietnam, or others, this comparison just an example:




Airpower in the South China Sea | Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative

Evolution of Fiery cross reef since 2006





The moment J11, JH-7, H6, Y-8 etc and/or surface combattants start making appearances here, there is effectively control over the shipping lanes

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Jlaw

Penguin said:


> As for doing the same as e.g. Vietnam, or others, this comparison just an example:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Airpower in the South China Sea | Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative
> 
> Evolution of Fiery cross reef since 2006
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The moment J11, JH-7, H6, Y-8 etc and/or surface combattants start making appearances here, there is effectively control over the shipping lanes



The moral of the story is, if your penis is not big enough, do not buy magnum sized condoms. *You are aware that it was the Vietnamese and Phillippines who started island reclamation in SCS first? *China has just recently began land reclamation. IT's just that big China can reclaim land 100x faster and more efficient than the Viet Congs and Pinoys. 
The only solution the Viets and Pinoy have now is to cry to the international community.

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Dungeness

Jlaw said:


> The moral of the story is, if your penis is not big enough, do not buy magnum sized condoms. *You are aware that it was the Vietnamese and Phillippines who started island reclamation in SCS first? *China has just recently began land reclamation. IT's just that big China can reclaim land 100x faster and more efficient than the Viet Congs and Pinoys.
> The only solution the Viets and Pinoy have now is to cry to the international community.



Being the most powerful country in South China Sea Region, China has shown great restraint to the world for the past 20 years. China could have resort to force to evict foreign invaders from each and every her islands; China could have put more outposts on more reefs; China could have used force to stop Vietnam and Philippine from land reclamation. China did none of these, because China wants to be a "responsible big power". Did international community give a sh1t to what China sacrificed? Just look at the map of SCS, how many reefs have been occupied by the little countries like Vietnam since 1988? 

Enough is enough! China will not back down, China can't afford to back down.

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## Jlaw

Dungeness said:


> Being the most powerful country in South China Sea Region, China has shown great restraint to the world for the past 20 years. China could have resort to force to evict foreign invaders from each and every her islands; China could have put more outposts on more reefs; China could have used force to stop Vietnam and Philippine from land reclamation. China did none of these, because China wants to be a "responsible big power". Did international community give a sh1t to what China sacrificed? Just look at the map of SCS, how many reefs have been occupied by the little countries like Vietnam since 1988?
> 
> Enough is enough! China will not back down, China can't afford to back down.


China is learning that they need to do all those things you mentioned. Being a Yao Ming style country is not the way for people to take you seriously.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zero_wing

SEAISI said:


> while viets and pinoys jump and cry, chinese just build, build, build
> 
> hindus, well hindus just get ripped off by the ruskies year after year



Well we see


----------



## dichoi

.
*Vietnam calls for responsible actions in East Sea*
VNA THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 25, 2016 - 20:08:00 





*Hanoi (VNA) *– Vietnam calls on relevant sides to take responsible and constructive actions in maintaining peace and stability in the East Sea, said Foreign Ministry’s Spokesperson Le Hai Binh. 

The spokesperson made the appeal on February 25 in reply to reporters’ queries on Vietnam’s response to China’s deployment of warplanes to Phu Lam (Woody) Island in Vietnam’s Hoang Sa (Paracel) archipelago and its construction of a high frequency radar facility on several features in Vietnam’s Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelago, as well as news released by the US media that the country may put mobile artillery weapons in the East Sea. 

At the ministry’s regular press conference, Binh noted Vietnam’s hope that the parties will respect the UN Charter and international law, especially the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) and the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the East Sea (DOC). 

“Vietnam has indisputable sovereignty over Hoang Sa and Truong Sa archipelagoes,” the Foreign Ministry’s spokesperson said. 

The spokesman said China’s acts, regardless of objections and concerns raised by Vietnam and the international community, not only seriously violate Vietnam’s sovereignty and accelerate militarisation in the East Sea, but also threaten peace and stability in the region as well as maritime and aviation security, safety and freedom in the Sea. 

“Vietnam strongly opposes to the actions that seriously infringed its sovereignty and demands China have responsible and constructive words and deeds in maintaining peace and stability in the region and the world in respect for international law,” Binh said. 

Maintaining peace, stability, and maritime and aviation security and safety in the sea is the shared interest of all countries in and outside the region, Binh noted. 

Asked what Vietnam’s viewpoint would be if it is suggested the country should join a patrol with the US and its allies, the diplomat said Vietnam has conducted normal activities in the region in line with the country’s law, and international law, particularly the 1982 UNCLOS. 

The activities, which are performed by Vietnamese competent agencies, have always contributed to peace and stability in the region and the world at large. 

Vietnam has repeatedly voiced its viewpoint of respecting innocent passage through the country’s territorial waters in tune with relevant rules stated in international law, especially the UNCLOS, he said. 

Vietnam suggested countries make constructive and pragmatic contributions to peace and stability in the East Sea, and respect international law. 

The country’s foreign policy of independence and self-reliance has contributed to keeping peace and stability in the region, and received high appraisals from countries in and outside the region, Binh said. 

Regarding ongoing tensions in the East Sea, the spokesman said the recent developments in the region, especially in Hoang Sa and Truong Sa archipelagoes, show that the region’s status quo is being broken, and what is most worthy of worry is the militarisation of the East Sea. 

According to him, the tensions would harm peace, stability, and maritime and aviation security and safety in the region.-VNA

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## dichoi

zheng2 said:


> screw your crying baby theory,is dis all youv got.come on show me where your country were when south china sea is called china sea.your country is a puppet of china since 982 AD and before that the north viet land is a part of our dynasties,and after that you were a colony kept changing masters.who the heck you think you are to against china and steal our islands,this is a crime which will make you all die.and who will you choose this time for papa helping me.the america?



Your ancestor recognized there is Jiaozhi Ocean, 交趾洋 Vietnamese Ocean. Chinese stolen our Island in 1956, 1974, 1988 with force. Chinese is invader there.

Nanhai 南海 doésn't mean china sea.


----------



## Penguin

Jlaw said:


> The moral of the story is, if your penis is not big enough, do not buy magnum sized condoms. *You are aware that it was the Vietnamese and Phillippines who started island reclamation in SCS first? *China has just recently began land reclamation. IT's just that big China can reclaim land 100x faster and more efficient than the Viet Congs and Pinoys.
> The only solution the Viets and Pinoy have now is to cry to the international community.



Why do you have to ask? If you looked at the link with the graphic, you would have seen that on that particular website directly underneath the graphic it reads"
"Vietnam began construction of its airstrip on Spratly Island in 1976, making this the first runway in the Spratly island group. In 1978, the Philippines incorporated Thitu Island after airstrip construction had already begun. In 1983, Malaysia built a resort and airstrip atop Swallow Reef. The Nationalist Chinese government occupied Itu Aba in 1946, but did not begin constructing its airstrip until 2006, and construction finished in 2008. China is the most recent Spratly claimant to build an airstrip, which it began on Fiery Cross Reef in late 2014 after it reclaimed the former low-lying feature."

Reclamation of Fiery Cross Reef began in 2006, which coincides with the start of construction of the strip by RoC on Itu Aba, which is a natural island. At that time, Vietnam's demanded RoC cease building airstrips on the disputed Spratly archipelago. A Vietnamese Foreign Ministry spokesman warned that construction on Taiping Island, also known as Itu Aba (Malay for "What's that?"), would violate Vietnamese sovereignty and create a "negative impact" on peace, stability and regional cooperation. Taiping Island Airport is for military use only but, apparently [and rather remarkable if true], has no refueling facilities. If that is so, you could ferry F-16s or Mirage 2000 aircraft in from Taipei but you couldn't use them from there. To date, once every two months, a C-130 transport aircraft arrives from Taiwan island and provide personnel transportation and material supplies for the entire island.

Thitu Island is also a natural island. It's Rancudo Airfield is an unpaved, dirt surface with large, dirt aprons and is extremely worn. No major construction or engineering has been observed near this runway in recent years. The Thitu Island airstrip allows Manila to land C-130 Hercules cargo planes, BN-2 Islander unarmed Maritime patrol aircraft / Light transport aircraft (i.e. not the armed Defender version) and North American Rockwell OV-10 Bronco Light attack aircraft / Surveillance aircraft. The latter can be lightly armed (mg's, unguided rockets, small dumb bombs) for ground attack. PAF flies Broncos on search-and-rescue and COIN operations.

Spratly island is also a natural island. Truong Sa Airport is stricly for military use but the short landing strip can only accommodate small fixed-wing propeller aircraft such as unarmed PZL M28 maritime patrol aircraft and DHC-6 Twin Otter transport.

Swallow reef is an oceanic atoll. A coral atoll is a ring-shaped coral reef including a coral rim that encircles a lagoon partially or completely, sometimes with _coral islands_/cays on the rim. Swallow Reef had _an original land area_ of approximately 6.2 hectares (15 acres), but with reclaimed land now covers 35 hectares (86 acres). Layang-Layang Airport. It serves a Royal Malaysian Navy naval station (Station Lima), a marine research facility called MARSAL (Marine Research Station Pulau Layang-Layang) and a 3-star diving resort. The airport is a dual-use airport, serving both military and civilian aircraft. Layang Layang Aerospace operates Nomad N22C aircraft while the Royal Malaysian Air Force operates C130 Hercules transport planes and CN-235 maritime patrol aircraft. These are all maintained on landbases, not on the island. Su-30 could use this strip, but it is qustionable whether the existing infrastructure can support them.

Fiery cross reef was a group of three reefs. During 2014 the PRC government began reclamation activities to construct a large artificial island to support an airstrip and seaport. This to rectify China's "distinct disadvantage" compared with other claimants in the Spratly Islands, in that it was the only claimant that did not have an island hosting an airfield.





Fiery cross reef (2000)

Suggest to read UNCLOS part 2, section 2 and part 8 for the difference between natural island, atol and reef etc.
UNCLOS - Table of Contents



> An island is a naturally formed area of land, surrounded by water, which is above water at high tide. Ambiguity in the UNCLOS definition of an island is that it could mean islands formed by natural processes _or_ islands composed of naturally occurring objects. If the second definition is correct, reclaimed land would be entitled to all the maritime zones of an island. But this expansive interpretation just does not hold water. The Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties says that we must give treaty provisions their “ordinary meaning” while remaining mindful of their context, purpose and, if necessary, negotiating history
> 
> Let’s start with ordinary meaning. The New Oxford American Dictionary’s first entry for the verb ‘form’ defines it as to “bring together parts or combine to create (something).” So UNCLOS’ requirement that an island be naturally formed should mean that an island be _created_ naturally.
> 
> It would not make sense to interpret “naturally formed” as a noun. We can see this is true by looking at other UNCLOS provisions. For example, Article 60 says that countries may “establish reasonable safety zones around … artificial islands” and that “[a]rtificial islands, installations and structures do not possess the status of islands.” UNCLOS does not define “artificial island” explicitly, but a definition is suggested by the fact that Article 60 differentiates artificial islands, installations, and structures. Installations and structures ordinarily include objects built of non-natural materials (like concrete and steel in an oil rig). By using “artificial islands” as a separate term, UNCLOS states that this is a different type of landmass, one that is made of natural objects (i.e. sand) and _not _man-made objects (i.e. steel).
> 
> If artificial islands are made of natural objects, it would not make sense for UNCLOS to define islands as a landmass _also _made of natural objects. The only solution, therefore, is for “naturally formed” to indicate the _process_ by which an island is created.
> ...
> scholars have agreed that artificially formed islands should not be granted maritime entitlements.
> ...
> The China-Philippines arbitration implicates a region in which nearly all neighboring states have sovereign claims. But while there are a number of difficult legal and strategic issues for the Permanent Court of Arbitration to consider, the legal character of PRC-controlled reefs is not one of them. Here, if anywhere, a straightforward application of UNCLOS should prevail. No amount of land reclamation can change a reef into an island, nor entitle them to an island’s maritime zones.


What Makes an Island? Land Reclamation and the South China Sea Arbitration | Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative



Dungeness said:


> Being the most powerful country in South China Sea Region, China has shown great restraint to the world for the past 20 years. China could have resort to force to evict foreign invaders from each and every her islands; China could have put more outposts on more reefs; China could have used force to stop Vietnam and Philippine from land reclamation. China did none of these, because China wants to be a "responsible big power". Did international community give a sh1t to what China sacrificed? Just look at the map of SCS, how many reefs have been occupied by the little countries like Vietnam since 1988?
> 
> Enough is enough! China will not back down, China can't afford to back down.


As a UN member, signatory to the UN Charter, PRC too shall act in accordance with the following Principles:

The Organization is based on the principle of the sovereign equality of all its Members.
All Members, in order to ensure to all of them the rights and benefits resulting from membership, shall fulfill in good faith the obligations assumed by them in accordance with the present Charter.
All Members shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security, and justice, are not endangered.
All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the *threat* or *use of force* against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.
All Members shall give the United Nations every assistance in any action it takes in accordance with the present Charter, and shall refrain from giving assistance to any state against which the United Nations is taking preventive or enforcement action.
The Organization shall ensure that states which are not Members of the United Nations act in accordance with these Principles so far as may be necessary for the maintenance of international peace and security.
Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter; but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter Vll.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Dungeness

Penguin said:


> As a UN member, signatory to the UN Charter, PRC too shall act in accordance with the following Principles:
> 
> The Organization is based on the principle of the sovereign equality of all its Members.
> All Members, in order to ensure to all of them the rights and benefits resulting from membership, shall fulfill in good faith the obligations assumed by them in accordance with the present Charter.
> All Members shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security, and justice, are not endangered.
> All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the *threat* or *use of force* against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.
> All Members shall give the United Nations every assistance in any action it takes in accordance with the present Charter, and shall refrain from giving assistance to any state against which the United Nations is taking preventive or enforcement action.
> The Organization shall ensure that states which are not Members of the United Nations act in accordance with these Principles so far as may be necessary for the maintenance of international peace and security.
> Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter; but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter Vll.



If you have been lecturing Vietnam and Philippine in the past 40 years on the same ground, when they were grabbing islands and reefs in SCS like no tomorrow, I would've just said you are an UN Charter Nerd. Now you are just being hypocritical. 

SCS is the "Core National Interest" for China, and CPC is not about to give it up unless it wants to be overthrown by the people of China.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Penguin

Dungeness said:


> If you have been lecturing Vietnam and Philippine in the past 40 years on the same ground, when they were grabbing islands and reefs in SCS like no tomorrow, I would've just said you are an UN Charter Nerd. Now you are just being hypocritical.
> 
> SCS is the "Core National Interest" for China, and CPC is not about to give it up unless it wants to be overthrown by the people of China.



Sorry, as a 10 year old, I had other interests. Possibly, you weren't even born. But surely there were people back in 1975 who talked about this too. But.... we didn't have internet fora back then, did we?

Really, you should read this.
What Makes an Island? Land Reclamation and the South China Sea Arbitration | Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative


----------



## Dungeness

Penguin said:


> Sorry, as a 10 year old, I had other interests. Possibly, you weren't even born. But surely there were people back in 1975 who talked about this too. But.... we didn't have internet fora back then, did we?
> 
> Really, you should read this.
> What Makes an Island? Land Reclamation and the South China Sea Arbitration | Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative



The internet has been around for the past quarter century, and you just discovered your newly found expertise on UN Charter these days? You know this is exactly what upset Chinese people, whenever China is involved in any disputes, it MUST be China that is at fault. China has always been under the scrutiny from the west, and has been always criticized no matter what she dose. 

Just exactly what China should do to make others happy? Let its small neighbors to chew her alive? Divide herself up into pieces to satisfy the west? China may as well give a finger to everyone else and make Chinese people happy.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## TaiShang

Certain facts:

1. Vietnam and the Philippines have been engaged in island build-up for over 30 years now. China is a late comer. If China's might and capabilities outsize theirs, that's their own problem. In every Vietnamese and Philippines move, we see a desire to further expand and build. The only thing is they do not have the capability. We won't stop just because they do not have the capability and capacity.

2. China (Taiwan) claims and construction work is to ensure freedom and safety of navigation in the SCS. This is so until the opposite is proven. If there is one country challenging SCS safety and security, it is the US, as historically been proven.

3. China's Taiping is an island (there is scientific and visual evidence, including two papers by the very professor (Schofield) who, now on the PH's Court team, says he did not mean that) with full entitlement status, including 200NM and CS, hence, PH's Arbitration is moot as eight of the 9 features they mentioned in their Memorial lay within the 200NM of Taiping Island.

4. China does not claim individual EEZs for every single island in Nansha; China claims 200NM and CS for the entire Nansha as an island group. Delimitation is to be made based on this and bilaterally. For delimitation and sovereignty are outside the jurisdiction of the UNCLOS.

5. The U-shaped line is not a solid line, there is a reason for that. Just China erased two lines (it was 11-dashed line) after delimitation with Vietnam (and one with covering Taiwan), it will erase the dashes as sovereignty issues are solved and delimitation agreements are signed between related parties. So, China will make sure: Sovereignty --> Delimitation ---> Law enforcement and exploration/exploitation activities. PH's Court case is illogical because it attempts to start from the last; sort of trying to put the cart before the horse. It will not work.

6. China's historic rights over the entire four island groups in SCS (not the entire water) cannot be denied and taken away. This is a core national interest enshrined in the Constitution and, in line with China's growing capabilities, it will be forcefully executed, if required. Outside actors' intervention will be ignored and brushed off.

@Chinese-Dragon , @xunzi , @Dungeness , @Jlaw , @sicsheep , @Nihonjin1051 _et al_.

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## sicsheep

Penguin said:


> Sorry, as a 10 year old, I had other interests. Possibly, you weren't even born. But surely there were people back in 1975 who talked about this too. But.... we didn't have internet fora back then, did we?
> 
> Really, you should read this.
> What Makes an Island? Land Reclamation and the South China Sea Arbitration | Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative



I think you are missing the point, the reclamation is not about drawing territorial water or EEZ from that island or reef. 

now this is Vietnamese West London Reef . 








We only do it in way bigger scale.






and that is no more artificial than this

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## xunzi

Penguin said:


> Can't do that, you see, since our philosohpy is not 'might makes right'
> 
> 
> If that is your concern, proper channels are international court and diplomacy. Not artificial structures on shoals or reefs (around which you then claim a 12nm territorial zone and/or a 200nm EEZ in which China beliefs no warships may enter without persmission, although that is not the common understanding of rules pertaining to EEZ) and militarization of areas (port facilities, airfields, able to accommodate significant surface and air combattants, coupled to radars, some of which OTH).
> 
> As for doing the same as e.g. Vietnam, or others, this comparison just an example:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Airpower in the South China Sea | Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative
> 
> Evolution of Fiery cross reef since 2006
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The moment J11, JH-7, H6, Y-8 etc and/or surface combattants start making appearances here, there is effectively control over the shipping lanes


Our philosophy on dispute is mutual respect of each other sovereignty and dispute shall be resolve through bilaeral negotiation which is the international norm.

The international court is not the proper channel to resolve territorial dispute. If that is the case, there would be no territorial dispute in the world. Our diplomatic channel continue to be open for talk; yet nobody wants to come to us to talk but engage in tit-for-tat, then we will accept that kind of engagements.

Like I said, we are the last to fortify our position because we sense you are backing these claimants to provoke our national security through the back channel support. It is within our international rights to defend our position. The size of islands does not matter. What matter is everyone does it and we are the last to do it. It shows our great restraint in the past.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## zheng2

dichoi said:


> Your ancestor recognized there is Jiaozhi Ocean, 交趾洋 Vietnamese Ocean. Chinese stolen our Island in 1956, 1974, 1988 with force. Chinese is invader there.
> 
> Nanhai 南海 doésn't mean china sea.


nonsense,those seas were belong to china in the winner meetings which the agreement was signed.
there were no vietnam as a country at that time.
and the 交趾 means a city in the han dynasty belong to chinese han.
jiaozhi ocean is wrong,it is jiaozhiwan means a gulf around jiaozhi city.
and also when jiaozhi is found there were no vietnam as a country too.
we give you people a name,give you language and help you against america,and you steal our islands in return
this is called shameless.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zero_wing

oh my god where's your evidence you people claim stuff which does not belong to your country your country is trying to catch up to the other superpowers which you're not in even in the same league as your country if you must know your only regional power and not as experience and strong as the others like Japan, Korea, or India. So make your nonsense claims to the rest of the Planet it's simply a big nation trying to take from its smaller less powerful neighbours and annoying the rest of the people in the neighbourhood


----------



## Penguin

Dungeness said:


> The internet has been around for the past quarter century, and you just discovered your newly found expertise on UN Charter these days? You know this is exactly what upset Chinese people, whenever China is involved in any disputes, it MUST be China that is at fault. China has always been under the scrutiny from the west, and has been always criticized no matter what she dose.
> 
> Just exactly what China should do to make others happy? Let its small neighbors to chew her alive? Divide herself up into pieces to satisfy the west? China may as well give a finger to everyone else and make Chinese people happy.


Balony. Don't put yourself or China in the victim role. The suggestion that I must be against China is based on nothing. I have nothing against China and - frankly - am far more concerned about Russia under Putin. G'day.



sicsheep said:


> I think you are missing the point, the reclamation is not about drawing territorial water or EEZ from that island or reef.
> 
> now this is Vietnamese West London Reef .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We only do it in way bigger scale.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and that is no more artificial than this



We started out here with a discussion concerning HQ-9 onto the Paracels. We then looked at the different parts of that area, notable Woody Island. Discussion is now shifting to Spratleys and the whole issue of reclamation. The issue is not whether or not one can reclaim land or build structures. The issue is what you can derive from them e.g. rights e.g. where you can station weapons. A state can do so on its sovereign territory. But, what if sovereignty is disputed? UNLOCS links this sovereignty issue with islands. It has a clear definition of what are and what are not islands. Likewise, structures and articially formed land. From the latter do you cannot derive territorial waters or EEZ etc. Putting a 100-200km SAM on naturally formed Woody Island defeats the purpose of self defence, and is unproportional, because e.g. MANPADS or a 10-15km point defence SAM can provide air defence for Woody Island. The choice for the much londer range HQ-9 is clearly motivated by construction of articifial land about 68 km away from Woody Island. But that is not where China is sovereign.

I know perfectly well that legal status aside, having a naval and/or airbase ('unsinkable carrier') in an area allows for better monitoring and controlling (if necessary by force) an area. A large nation clearly has advanteges here over a small nation. Still, China has pledge itself to the UN, and by UN charter is bound to recognize all its neighbouring states as having equal rights. It is also bound to not resort to military solutions.

That is, of course, assuming that the member nation honors the international treaties it has entered into, knowlingly, willingly and voluntarily.



xunzi said:


> Our philosophy on dispute is mutual respect of each other sovereignty and dispute shall be resolve through bilaeral negotiation which is the international norm.
> 
> The international court is not the proper channel to resolve territorial dispute. If that is the case, there would be no territorial dispute in the world. Our diplomatic channel continue to be open for talk; yet nobody wants to come to us to talk but engage in tit-for-tat, then we will accept that kind of engagements.
> 
> Like I said, we are the last to fortify our position because we sense you are backing these claimants to provoke our national security through the back channel support. It is within our international rights to defend our position. The size of islands does not matter. What matter is everyone does it and we are the last to do it. It shows our great restraint in the past.


Indeed, it is not the size of the island that matters. What matters is whether it is an islands under the law i.e. naturally formed. A terraformed reef - whatever its size - is not recognized as such. No sovereignty claims can be derived from it. That includes self-defence.

As for the "everybody does it, so it is ok for us to do so" argument, that's a fine philosophy. If 'everybody' steals, it is therefor ok for you to do so (in spite of both the law and morals) . If everybody jumps of a cliff, so should you? The point here is of course that it is a fallacy that everybody does it.

Face up to it, it is all about - increasingly scarce - resources. But then again, that's what everybody has been blaming US for in relation to Middle East. So, just admit it is about recources and don't complain when others (Russia > on the pole, US > in the MidEast,) do so.

HAWAII is a naturally formed Island, part of the US. Where's the land reclamation?

The rest of the world (and I don't mean the US) just sees a game of landgrab in the SCS. Naturally, governments are concerned, for obvious reasons.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ahojunk

Some pictures of North Island,






Nice little island in Dec 2015.





Jan 9, 2016 - reclamation is starting.





07-Feb-2016. Lots of progress in just one month. China just doesn't muck around. It has a plan and is now executing the plan.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## zheng2

Zero_wing said:


> oh my god where's your evidence you people claim stuff which does not belong to your country your country is trying to catch up to the other superpowers which you're not in even in the same league as your country if you must know your only regional power and not as experience and strong as the others like Japan, Korea, or India. So make your nonsense claims to the rest of the Planet it's simply a big nation trying to take from its smaller less powerful neighbours and annoying the rest of the people in the neighbourhood


the evidence is on the UN website and archives,where is your evidence claimming those seas belong to you.
we even do not need evidence to rule those islands coz we are powerful.
you pathetic thieves even do not understand your country is a sacrifice to balance the strange of the great power competion.


----------



## TaiShang

xunzi said:


> It shows our great restraint in the past.



Which won't be the case anymore.

You know what is my Indonesian friend's favorite quote he uses at every social media account? "The nice guy finishes the last."

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Aepsilons

TaiShang said:


> "The nice guy finishes the last."



hahahaha! kinda goes with, " the good die young, the bad die old?"


----------



## Aepsilons

Viet said:


> yes, I wonder of chinese humour, asking myself why chinese posters here don´t go to circus, earning extra money, as clowns. they act as if they are the only one who possess the truth. great restraint, peaceful acts...and other empty phrases.



bro, there is no need for that, we all here are able to differentiate joking aside and serious demeanor. also i don't think its always productive to maintain a cross-odds position with our chinese patriot colleagues here, it is unhealthy , even, to always keep the same view. we must open our eyes to the broader picture, which am sure our chinese brothers do too. given at times in the burst of emotions people tend to say regretful things, but in the end, we are asian patriots who yearn to establish a place for our respective countries in the global order --- and one that is integrated with our region. i used to hold a heavy security focused position in the past, --- that has changed over time. in the end japan , nor vietnam cannot survive or operate in a glass box , and continue to ignore our great partner, which is china. it is simple, really. 

let the truth set you free, viet. let the truth set you free. 

and by the way don't be worried about being questioned as being "unpatriotic" enough. at least open yourself to discourse --- you've been one of the very exceptional vietnamese members here who can think outside the proverbial box, actually. actually both you and @xesy.



Viet said:


> they act as if they are the only one who possess the truth. great restraint, peaceful acts...and other empty phrases.



of course not, our chinese friends are as emphatic and patriotic as you and i, my friend. i suppose what i have learned is that we have to open ourselves to communication and remove barriers to discourse; and one barrier is usually our innate nationalism , which can be stifling if we do not watch it. in the past i used to speak with unhealthy ultra-nationalism -- which tended to dissuade discourse rather than encourage it. i suppose interacting with a very varied and wide background of people here, different ideologies, allowed me to learn more about myself and others. i hope you can -- do the same my friend. 

Bruce Lee said it best, "*Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless - like water. Now you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup, you put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, you put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.”*


----------



## BuddhaPalm

Now USA finally acknowledges how badly it has been spanked by China.

South China Sea: Beijing is winning, but here's how to retake the initiative

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Penguin

TaiShang said:


> Which won't be the case anymore.
> 
> You know what is my Indonesian friend's favorite quote he uses at every social media account? "The nice guy finishes the last."


Oh, so China is a man courting a woman? Because that's what the quote refers to.

Should you interprete wider, it refers to self centered people will step on who ever they need to and do what ever it takes no matter who thy hurt to "get to the top" or get what they want. In short, 'might makes right' (and civilization out the window). If that's the world you choose to make, well, good luck.


----------



## F-22Raptor

A Chinese Air Defense Identification Zone (ADIZ) over the South China Sea would ratchet up regional tensions and be ignored by U.S. forces, said the head of the U.S. military forces in the Pacific during a press conference at the Pentagon on Thursday.

Adm. Harry Harris, commander of U.S. Pacific Command, is concerned Beijing would declare an ADIZ over its disputed holdings like it did over the East China Sea in 2013.

“I’m concerned, in the sense that I would find that destabilizing and provocative,” he said.
“We would ignore it, just like we’ve ignored the ADIZ that they’ve put in place in the East China Sea… Secretary [of State] Kerry asked China to not declare an ADIZ [over the South China Sea].”

In the last several weeks, new satellite imagery has revealed new Chinese military kit on its holdings in the Paracel Islands near Vietnam and artificial islands in the Spratlys close to the Philippines.

“I’m of the opinion they’re militarizing the South China Sea,” Harris said.
“They have reclaimed almost 3,000 acres of military bases in the South China Sea.”

For example HQ-9 anti-air warfare missiles were deployed on Woody Island in the Paracels earlier this month and the Chinese Shenyang J-11 were spotted in the region as recently as this week according to press reports.

But a persistent concern behind all of the reclamation, militarization and the rhetoric from Beijing is the possibility of the declaration of a Chinese ADIZ over the South China Sea.

An ADIZ – which are also used by the U.S. – require aircraft in the zone to declare its intentions and identify itself to a national aviation authority.

“International law does not prohibit nations from establishing air defense identification zones (ADIZ) in the international airspace adjacent to their territorial airspace,” the U.S. Navy’s Commander’s Handbook on the law of Naval Operations reads. “The legal basis for ADIZ regulations is the right of a nation to establish reasonable conditions of entry into its territory. Accordingly, an aircraft approaching national airspace can be required to identify itself while in international airspace as a condition of entry approval.”

However, conflicts over territory in the South China Sea where several countries claim the same territory make the declaration of a China ADIZ problematic for regional neighbors.

An ADIZ could pair with expansive territorial claims China has made in the South China Sea to give Beijing more influence in the region that could bleed over to more control of the economic flow through the region.

“When they put their advanced missile systems on the Paracels, and when they build three 10,000 foot runways in the Spratlys on the basis that they’ve reclaimed — when they do all of that, they’re changing the operational landscape in the South China Sea,” Harris said.
“So, that is what’s changed. The United States and our patrols — military patrols, air and maritime in the South China Sea haven’t really changed. We have a consistent presence in the Western Pacific, and we have had that for decades.”

But was is different is how much influence China has over the region, “short of war they can rise to the level of having tactical control of the water ways of the South China Sea.”

China quickly responded on Friday to Harris’ statements.

“We have noticed that this official is busy making comments on the South China Sea — sometimes in the U.S. Congress, and sometimes in the Defense Department — which has given us the general impression that he intends to smear China’s legitimate and reasonable actions in the South China Sea and sowing discord,” Ministry of Foreign Affairs spokesman Hong Lei said on Friday.
“He is finding an excuse for U.S. maritime hegemony and muscle-flexing on the sea.”

Earlier this month, China has accused two recent U.S. surface Freedom of Navigation operations (FON ops) in the South China Sea as provocative actions.
“As the world’s largest trade in goods nation and the largest South China Sea littoral state, China cares more about navigation safety and freedom in the South China Sea than any other country,” said ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying earlier this week.
“The United States talks about freedom of navigation, but I fear in its heart what it’s thinking about is absolute maritime hegemony.”
Foreign Affairs Minister Wang Yi echoed comments, saying, “the demilitarization needs efforts of all parties, not only China, but also the United States and ASEAN countries.”
While Chinese officials comments are rhetorically charged, Hong did say while China reserves the right to declare an ADIZ over the South China Sea, the situation in the region was stable enough not to do so.

During his briefing in the Pentagon, Harris said there’s a chance to give China the benefit of the doubt.

“Let’s give China a chance here and see if they’ll opt for a more stabilizing less tense situation or whether they’ll opt to be a provocative and destabilizing influence,” Harris said.

PACOM Harris: U.S. Would Ignore A ‘Destabilizing’ Chinese South China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone - USNI News

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## 21stCentury

The only ones destabilizing South China Sea is the foreign occupying force aka United States. The faster you recognize China's sphere of influence in South China Sea the sooner there will be peace.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zero_wing

zheng2 said:


> the evidence is on the UN website and archives,where is your evidence claimming those seas belong to you.
> we even do not need evidence to rule those islands coz we are powerful.
> you pathetic thieves even do not understand your country is a sacrifice to balance the strange of the great power competion.



Oh my really now since when did china became archipelagic state? again china as no real claim to the area obviously you did not read any post you just repeat the old commie policy of your imperialist country the only thefts here is you guys for claim a whole damn sea as your own and stealing everything from my country and everyone else well since you guys made a lots of enemies lets see how you people fair when people will finally get sick and tired of your arrogance or even better after the ruling comes out lets see how much and china risk as a international devenant

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Dungeness

Penguin said:


> We started out here with a discussion concerning HQ-9 onto the Paracels. We then looked at the different parts of that area, notable Woody Island. Discussion is now shifting to Spratleys and the whole issue of reclamation. The issue is not whether or not one can reclaim land or build structures. The issue is what you can derive from them e.g. rights e.g. where you can station weapons.* A state can do so on its sovereign territory. But, what if sovereignty is disputed?* UNLOCS links this sovereignty issue with islands. It has a clear definition of what are and what are not islands. Likewise, structures and articially formed land. From the latter do you cannot derive territorial waters or EEZ etc.* Putting a 100-200km SAM on naturally formed Woody Island defeats the purpose of self defence, and is unproportional, because e.g. MANPADS or a 10-15km point defence SAM can provide air defence for Woody Island.* The choice for the much londer range HQ-9 is clearly motivated by construction of articifial land about 68 km away from Woody Island. But that is not where China is sovereign.



Sorry, I am confused with what you want to say:

Are you now saying yes, China has legitimate right to put SAM on "naturally formed Woody Island", but instead of HQ-9, they should use MANPADS as it is more "proportional" to the size of the island?

And if the sovereignty is in dispute, a state should not have any defense on the land in question?

You have been trying hard to prove that "artificial islands are not islands", but no Chinese member here are arguing about 200 miles EEZ for those reefs, so it seems you complete miss the point.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## dichoi

zheng2 said:


> nonsense,those seas were belong to china in the winner meetings which the agreement was signed.
> there were no vietnam as a country at that time.
> and the 交趾 means a city in the han dynasty belong to chinese han.
> jiaozhi ocean is wrong,it is jiaozhiwan means a gulf around jiaozhi city.
> and also when jiaozhi is found there were no vietnam as a country too.
> we give you people a name,give you language and help you against america,and you steal our islands in return
> this is called shameless.



Han Chinese invaded in to Vietnam, we kicked you back to China. The story is finished.

交趾 is written in Hanzi, imitated the sound speaking from old Vietnamese language, " kẻ chợ" (Kinh people), "Ke" is written as 交, "cho" is written as 趾. The map from Ming Dynasty of China, it stated clearly where is 交趾界 (Vietnam border) and where is 交趾洋 (Vietnamese Ocean). Study more, kid.

Chinese have to stop lying about history. In Francisco Conference 1951 after WW II, with representative of delegate from State Vietnam under leading of Bao Dai Emperor Vietnam's, Claim of China in East Sea of Vietnam is rejected by voting.

Islands belong to Vietnam from long time ago in the past. China has just stolen our Island from 1956 (by Taiwan), 1974 and 1988 recently (by mainland China) with force.


----------



## Penguin

Dungeness said:


> Sorry, I am confused with what you want to say:
> 
> Are you now saying yes, China has legitimate right to put SAM on "naturally formed Woody Island", but instead of HQ-9, they should use MANPADS as it is more "proportional" to the size of the island?
> 
> And if the sovereignty is in dispute, a state should not have any defense on the land in question?
> 
> You have been trying hard to prove that "artificial islands are not islands", but no Chinese member here are arguing about 200 miles EEZ for those reefs, so it seems you complete miss the point.


Woody Island is naturally formed. It has been and is disputed territory however. So, no, you got that wrong.
But lets'suppose - for the sake of argument - that it wasn't disputed, then the choice of weapon system to put there is out of proportion to any perceived threat ( and likely related to 'terraforming' 68km down the road).

The SAM range has no relation to the size of the location. Rather, again assuming for the sake of argument China has sovereignty over Woody Island, then that what it would have a right to defend doesn't extend offshore beyond 12nmi, as far as missiles are concerned.

Of course, the whole point with Woody Island is that Chinese sovereignty (or Vietnamese or Taiwanese, for that matter) is disputed, and therefore the whole issue of 'self defence' (against what, exactly? and why, out to where?) is BOGUS.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## dichoi

.Defence White Paper: Australia joins Asia's arms race with spending on weaponry and military forces to reach $195b - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

*Defence White Paper: Australia joins Asia's arms race with spending on weaponry and military forces to reach $195b*
By national affairs correspondent Greg Jennett, staff
Updated Thu at 1:08pm





Australia will embark on a decade-long surge in weaponry and military forces to defend its land, sea, skies and space from Asia's rapidly growing military forces.

The 2016 Defence White Paper maps a course towards a total of $195 billion in defence capability or equipment by 2020-21, together with a larger military force of 62,400 personnel, the largest in a quarter of a century.

Joining an Asian-region mini arms race, the White Paper promises 12 submarines to be built at a cost of more than $50 billion between 2018-2057.

However, maintenance costs will push that $50 billion budget much higher.

Navy will scoop a quarter of all new spending on capability, with nine new anti-submarine warfare frigates and 12 offshore patrol vessels.

The RAAF will build up two fleets of drones while also bringing its eventual fleet of 75 Joint Strike Fighters online.

The Army will claim 18 per cent of all extra spending on equipment, buying armed drones, new protected vehicles to transport troops, helicopters for special forces and a long-range rocket system.

Underscoring a sense of urgency to the renewal of Australia's defence power, the Government is aiming to build spending up to 2 per cent of GDP by 2020/21 — earlier than previously promised — representing an overall increase of $29.9 billion.

*Defence officials have told the ABC the White Paper reflects Australia's "growing discomfort" with China's military activity.*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## dichoi

Paracel is Island of Vietnam from long time ago in the past.












Chinese stolen Island Paracel of Vietnam with force in 1974. Vietnamese civilians were captured by Chinese aggressors there.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Penguin

Woody Island


> Fishing activities in the South China Sea region surrounding the island have been documented in the records of earlier Chinese dynasties. During the Ming Dynasty (1368–1644), Zheng He plotted the location of surrounding islands on a map. In 1909 Zhang Renjun, the Viceroy of Liangguang ordered Guangdong Fleet Admiral Li Zhun to sail to the island. His mission landed in June 1909. In 1932, the island was occupied by French Indochina.
> 
> The island was occupied by Japan during World War II. Following Japan's surrender at the end of the war, the Nationalist Chinese government sent naval expeditions to the South China Sea in November 1946 to claim the Spratly and Paracel Islands, and established a permanent presence on Woody Island and Itu Aba. They (re)named Woody Island "Yongxing (Yung-hsing) Island" after one of the Republic of China Navy warships, _ROCS Yung-hsing_. The ROCS Yung-hsing was formerly the USS Embattle (AM-226) transferred to the ROC navy after the war. In January 1947, after making a failed attempt to dislodge the Chinese garrison from Woody Island, France established a permanent presence, on behalf of Vietnam, on Pattle Island in the western Paracels.
> 
> After the Hainan Island Campaign in 1950 during the Chinese Civil War, the ROC garrison on Woody Island and Itu Aba were withdrawn to Taiwan. France had a chance to take over the islands, but decided not to, for fear of compromising its interests with the newly established PRC. The islands were thus unoccupied for six years, except for seasonal inhabitation by fishermen from Hainan. In 1956, the PRC established a permanent presence on Woody Island.
> 
> The Republic of Vietnam (South Vietnam) continued to exercise its sovereignty over the Crescent Group in the western part of the Paracel Islands after assuming control from the departing French colonialists, by maintaining a military garrison from the mid-1950s (per a decision by Ngo Dinh Diem's administration). Within the 20 years thereafter, conflicts between the two sides repeatedly erupted within the region. In January 1974, the PLA Navy captured the archipelago during the Battle of the Paracel Islands.


Woody Island (South China Sea) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## dichoi

.
*Why the United States and Vietnam Urgently Need to Deepen Ties*

*"Beijing is increasingly demonstrating to Hanoi that it aspires to regional hegemony and will trample the rights of any country that stands in its way..."

Alexander BenardPaul J. Leaf
September 11, 2015

*






U.S.-Vietnamese relations have strengthened in the past few years, in large part due to common concern over China’s increased aggression in the South China Sea. But some parts of the relationship have progressed slowly—confirming China’s belief that it can continue bullying Vietnam as part of its push for regional control without sparking serious backlash. Indeed, China recently parked another oil drilling rig in Vietnamese waters, and just last week, it extended the rig’s operations for several months. But this latest provocation, together with China’s announcement last week that it will shift more resources towards its naval and aerial capabilities, may motivate the United States and Vietnam to develop several key elements of their burgeoning partnership.

n May 2014, just three days after President Obama ended a tour of Asia meant to reassure allies there, Beijing almost triggered a crisis near the disputed Paracel Islands, which lie in the South China Sea and are occupied by Beijing, but claimed by Hanoi. Backed by “a large number of vessels,” China placed a state-owned oil drilling rig roughly 80 miles inside Vietnam’s internationally recognized exclusive economic zone (EEZ), which extends 200 miles from its coast. Beijing argued that it controlled those waters because they sit within the EEZ created by the Paracel Islands. Vietnam intervened with about thirty ships of its own. A seventy-five-day standoff ensued and escalated, as China dispatched military forces to guard the rig and the countries repeatedly rammed and sprayed each other’s boats. China sank a Vietnamese ship and anti-Chinese riots erupted in Vietnam. China ultimately withdrew after completing its testing, but warned that it might return.

The United States called China’s moves “provocative,” but it levied no sanctions, continued to bar lethal-weapons sales to Vietnam, declined to mediate the conflict and sent no military forces to the area. Seeing a detached United States and recognizing China’s naval superiority, Vietnam downplayed the dispute with its largest investor and trading partner, labeling the conflict a “brother[ly]” disagreement and resuming military ties with China. With a stronger regional power unable to stop it and Washington sidelining itself, China signaled that its rivals should accept its inexorable rise.

To underscore this message, this past June, just weeks before Vietnam’s top leader visited the United States, China deployed the same rig in a different part of Vietnam’s EEZ (which overlaps with the EEZ created by China’s Hainan Island) to investigate natural-resource deposits there. Beijing admonished foreign ships to stay 2,000 meters (6,562 feet) away from the rig. The exploration was slated to end on August 20, 2015. But last week, China moved the rig closer to Vietnam (within 110 miles of its coast) and unilaterally extended its drilling for two more months. 

Why the United States and Vietnam Urgently Need to Deepen Ties | The National Interest

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Dungeness

Penguin said:


> Woody Island is naturally formed. It has been and is disputed territory however. So, no, you got that wrong.
> But lets'suppose - for the sake of argument - that it wasn't disputed, then the choise of weapon system to put there is out of proportion to any perceived threat ( and likely related to 'terraforming' 68km down the road).
> 
> The SAM range has no relation to the size of the location. Rather, again assuming for the sake of argument China has sovereignty over Woody Island, *then that what it would have a right to defend doesn't extend offshore beyond 12nmi.*
> 
> Of course, the whole point with Woody Island is that Chinese sovereignty (or Vietnamese or Taiwanese, for that matter) is disputed, and therefore the whole issue of 'self defence' (against what, exactly? and why, out to where?) is BOGUS.



So a country should not have any capability to defend itself beyond its 12 nmi waters? Can you tell us where do you get this this idea from. Here in NW coast, there are hundred of 100 year old fortress that hosted cannons that had range of beyond that. Are you saying they were illegal in the first place? US has Pac -3 or THAAD with range hundreds of miles, all over the world including in the lower 48, are you telling us they are all illegal?

Being dispute is precisely the reason that need to be defended. Falkland is the dispute island between UK and Argentina, so all the defense in the islands that UK set up are illegal?

Are you sure you know what you are talking about?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## anon45

Just a statement of the obvious, they are ignoring China's ADIZ by Korea as well. Airlines will still follow it.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TaiShang

Penguin said:


> Oh, so China is a man courting a woman? Because that's what the quote refers to.
> 
> Should you interprete wider, it refers to self centered people will step on who ever they need to and do what ever it takes no matter who thy hurt to "get to the top" or get what they want. In short, 'might makes right' (and civilization out the window). If that's the world you choose to make, well, good luck.



The way I understand the quote, it suggests one should at least "respond in kind" and act proactively and preemptively when one gets the capability to do so.



Dungeness said:


> Sorry, I am confused with what you want to say:
> 
> Are you now saying yes, China has legitimate right to put SAM on "naturally formed Woody Island", but instead of HQ-9, they should use MANPADS as it is more "proportional" to the size of the island?
> 
> And if the sovereignty is in dispute, a state should not have any defense on the land in question?
> 
> You have been trying hard to prove that "artificial islands are not islands", but no Chinese member here are arguing about 200 miles EEZ for those reefs, so it seems you complete miss the point.



There is no such rule in international law. Besides, Woody Island can be regarded as an island, just as the rest of China's 9 holdings in Nansha.

See this map?

http://www.gc.noaa.gov/documents/2011/012711_gcil_maritime_eez_map.pdf

US claims EEZ for even Baker Island, which is entirely submerged in high tide.

International law is not written on stone. It is always reinterpreted according to the needs of more capable actors.

China will feed the US its own medicine to the point till the US is kicked out of China's immediate periphery and sphere of influence.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

anon45 said:


> Just a statement of the obvious, they are ignoring China's ADIZ by Korea as well. Airlines will still follow it.



lol isn't that enough?  once we establish the ADIZ in SCS, as along as the airlines and cargo ships comply our directive symbolize that we exercise the full control of SCS...and we don't respect others nation ADIZ neither by the way. I just love whoever have such bright idea to create the ADIZ at the fist place...now we use for our advantage.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## TaiShang

We do not respect US ADIZ, as well, just as we did not respect US claims of nerve gas used by Syrian government.

We do not respect when we feel we should not respect and you can do nothing about that.

For SCS ADIZ, the point is to have the capability to enforce law when the situation requires so. Capability is the real asset; the question of having to or not having to mobilize those capabilities is just conjectural.

We will monitor, track and keep a watchful eye on you even you do not wish to be done so. Whether we will take a safety measure or not is situational. War systems are set up in peace time. Exploring new frontiers never stops.

Right now the fundamentals are set up; the ADIZ will established when all the systems are ready. Give us some more time.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## ahojunk

Some selected quotes from the above article.



> China counters by arguing that it abides by the rules, but that only some rules are pertinent. In China’s view, the disputed islands were lawfully returned after World War II under the 1943 Cairo Declaration and 1945 Potsdam Proclamation. Others insist the 1951 San Francisco Peace Treaty with Japan and the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea should hold sway. China counters that it is not a party to the San Francisco Treaty and signed UNCLOS with specified reservations applying to the South China Sea issue. China is therefore 'observing international law in the true sense'.


Yes, that's true.



> China's stance has regional resonance. For instance, China avoids arbitration at the International Court of Justice (ICJ) over seabed boundaries, just as Australia has done with its smaller neighbour Timor Leste. The Philippines has sought an ICJ ruling against China’s island grabs, with China responding by declaring it will ignore the result. Again, such a stance is not unusual: Japan is ignoring an ICJ ruling on whaling in the Southern Ocean.


Yes, other countries have to look at what they have done before opening their mouth.



> The first strategy would be to target specific issues the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) is particularly sensitive about. The fundamental aim of the CCP is regime survival, which hinges both on retaining popular legitimacy and on repression. To this end, the state maintains the 'great Chinese firewall', suppresses dissenters, censors news and rewrites history. Today’s CCP leadership is particularly sensitive to threats to the political status quo, creating pressure points that could be exploited by states wanting to influence China's behaviour in the South China Sea. Meeting the Dalai Lama, openly discussing China's human rights problems, supporting a free press, assisting open internet access or vigorously marketing China’s true history are all options.


It's difficult to do that to your biggest trading partner, don't you think? In some cases, it is also your banker. Some countries have tried and found that it is to their detriment.



> The second approach would aim to constrain China’s future freedom of action. China has defended its land reclamation activities in the South China Sea as providing new ports and airfields for regional search-and-rescue and disaster relief operations. Recently, Foreign Minister Wang went further, declaring: 'China stands ready to open these facilities to other countries upon completion.' This offer could be accepted. A public diplomatic effort could be mounted to permanently place UN or ASEAN facilities and personnel on the islands to undertake civilian disaster relief tasks indefinitely. The islands would then be reconceptualised not as China’s exclusive property but rather as new territory shared with the world for all nations’ benefit. China’s use of the islands for military activities would be sharply constrained.


Yes, this could be a good option. But I am sure China will put in some conditions.



> Either approach could form the basis of a new strategy to replace the current failing ones. On the other hand, if imposing costs is considered to not be worth the outcomes, then it might be wiser to accept China’s South China Sea fait accompli. Continuing with the present ineffectual responses seems unwise. Chinese decision-makers could learn the wrong lessons and come to believe that assertive strategies are the most efficacious way to get favourable outcomes. A China that learns the wrong lessons might be worse than a China that gains the control it seeks over the South China Sea.


I don't quite follow this. All countries, big or small will do whatever they can get away with if it is to their benefit. Examples are Japan with whaling, Australia taking advantage of Timor Leste, Russia with Crimea, US with regime changes bypassing UN, etc.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## dichoi

.
*South China Sea: US may consider sending more destroyers to patrol islands*

Admiral Harry Harris, head of the US Navy’s Pacific Command, says ‘we’ll fly, sail and operate wherever international law allows’




Admiral Harry Harris said the US would increase freedom of navigation operations in the South China Sea. Photograph: Cliff Owen/AP


Reuters
Thursday 25 February 2016 04.43 GMTLast modified on Thursday 25 February 201604.45 GMT

The US, worried by China’s military buildup to assert dominance in the South China Sea, will increase freedom-of-navigation operations there, a senior Pentagon official has said.

“We will be doing them more, and we’ll be doing them with greater complexity in the future and ... we’ll fly, sail and operate wherever international law allows,” Admiral Harry Harris, the head of the US Navy’s Pacific Command, told a hearing of the House of Representatives armed services committee.

“We must continue to operate in the South China Sea to demonstrate that that water space and the air above it is international,” Harris said.

On Tuesday, Harris said China was “changing the operational landscape” in the South China Sea by deploying missiles and radar as part of an effort to militarily dominate east Asia.

China is “clearly militarising the South China Sea ... You’d have to believe in a flat Earth to think otherwise,” Harris said in comments that coincided with a visit to Washington by the Chinese foreign minister, Wang Yi.

China says its military facilities in the South China Sea are “legal and appropriate”, and on Tuesday, in an apparent reference to US patrols, Wang said Beijing hoped not to see more close-up reconnaissance, or the dispatch of missile destroyers or strategic bombers.

Wang met US national security adviser Susan Rice on Wednesday and they “candidly discussed” maritime issues, the White House said in a statement. Rice emphasised strong US support for freedom of navigation and urged China to address regional concerns, the statement said.

Harris, asked what more could be done to deter militarisation, said the US could deploy more naval assets, although there were significant “fiscal, diplomatic and political hurdles” in the way of stationing a second aircraft carrier group in the region.

“We could consider putting another [attack] submarine out there, we could put additional destroyers forward ... there are a lot of things we could do, short of putting a full carrier strike group in the western Pacific,” he said.

China claims most of the South China Sea, through which more than $5tn in global trade passes every year. Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei, the Philippines and Taiwan have rival claims.

Harris’s comments came a day after he said China had deployed surface-to-air missiles on Woody Island in the sea’s Paracel chain and radars on Cuarteron Reef in the Spratly islands further to the south.

On Tuesday, his command said China’s repeated deployment of advanced fighter aircraft to Woody Island was part of a disturbing trend that was inconsistent with Beijing’s commitment to avoid actions that could escalate disputes.

In January, a US Navy destroyer carried out a patrol within 12 nautical miles of Triton Island in the Paracels, a move China called provocative.

The US has also conducted sea and air patrols near artificial islands China has built in the Spratlys, including by two B-52 strategic bombers in December.

South China Sea: Beijing is winning, but here's how to retake the initiative

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Dungeness

BuddhaPalm said:


> Now USA finally acknowledges how badly it has been spanked by China.
> 
> South China Sea: Beijing is winning, but here's how to retake the initiative



The two so called strategies suggested in this article were pretty "low tech".

The first approach is to stir up political sensitive issues in China , in a bid to cause social instability, has been tried many times already since 1989, so it is a pretty old trick. It is not going to work.

The second approach is new, and it wants to trick CPC to turn Chinese islands into UN property. It sounds more like a laughable child's play than a serious strategy.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

*



US may consider sending more destroyers to patrol islands

Click to expand...

*
The more they send the better is for China, we don't need to give a verbal reply to Harry, only the hopeless and insecure need to make such announcement but we will do what must be done such as HQ-9 and let US keep crying . And as Chinese commentators said, the more they come the best for China perform intelligent gathering on each ship or airplane pass by....this is rare occasion for such enemy to expose himself to us.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## dichoi

.
*US B-52 bombers fly near disputed South China Sea islands*

13 November 2015





The B-52 bomber planes, seen here in a file picture, continued the mission despite warnings from the Chinese

Two US B-52 bomber planes have flown near artificial islands built by China in disputed areas of the South China Sea, the Pentagon has said.

Their mission continued despite being warned by Chinese ground controllers.

The incident comes ahead of a visit by US President Barack Obama to a summit in Manila next week, which China's President Xi Jinping will also attend.

China is locked in maritime territorial disputes with several neighbours in the South China Sea.

It claims a large swathe of the resource-rich area and has been aggressively reclaiming land and building facilities on reefs, which the US and others oppose.

The US has said it plans to demonstrate its freedom of navigation principle in the sea, which challenges what it deems to be "excessive claims" to the world's oceans and airspace.

*'Received warnings'*
The US patrol, which took place overnight on Sunday near the Spratly Islands, was a "a routine mission in the SCS (South China Sea)", said Pentagon spokesman Bill Urban, taking off from Guam and returning there.





The B-52s did not breach the area of sea claimed by China around the islands, the Pentagon said.

Mr Urban told reporters that the planes received two warnings "despite never venturing within 15 nautical miles of any feature".

"Both aircraft continued their mission without incident, and at all times operated fully in accordance with international law," he said.

Last month, the US sailed warship USS Lassen into the 12-nautical mile zone China claims around Subi and Mischief reefs in the Spratly archipelago, angering Beijing.

China's foreign ministry condemned it as "illegal" and provocative.






US B-52 bombers fly near disputed South China Sea islands - BBC News

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## dichoi

*US may consider sending more destroyers to patrol islands
*
US ships and US air jets will be present in front of China door and looks in china house.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

TaiShang said:


> We do not respect US ADIZ, as well, just as we did not respect US claims of nerve gas used by Syrian government.
> 
> We do not respect when we feel we should not respect and you can do nothing about that.
> 
> For SCS ADIZ, the point is to have the capability to enforce law when the situation requires so. Capability is the real asset; the question of having to or not having to mobilize those capabilities is just conjectural.
> 
> We will monitor, track and keep a watchful eye on you even you do not wish to be done so. Whether we will take a safety measure or not is situational. War systems are set up in peace time. Exploring new frontiers never stops.
> 
> Right now the fundamentals are set up; the ADIZ will established when all the systems are ready. Give us some more time.



You see the great joke of ADIZ is US think that by having such Idea, it can control the space and dictate the rule on the sky but they're just shooting themselves on the foot, now China not only has ADIZ is eastern sea but will also be in SCS.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

dichoi said:


> *US may consider sending more destroyers to patrol islands
> *
> US ships and US air jets will be present in front of China door and looks in china house.



, we will strip naked and expose ourself to them...well it's not far from true, there is nothing to hide in the Island

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Dungeness

Vietnam used to be a country of braves that pride itself of victories over superpowers. Nowadays, they are just hiding behind US butt like a bunch of cowards. Look that they have been posting! It is a none stop stream of US will do this, or US will do that to you. Pathetic!

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Dungeness said:


> Vietnam used to be a country of braves that pride itself of victories over superpowers. Nowadays, they are just hiding behind US butt like a bunch of cowards. Look that they have been posting! It is a none stop stream of US will do this, or US will do that to you. Pathetic!



They're hopeless against China so they need to do so to comfort themselves..

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ahojunk

China is hitting back...

-------------------
US should reflect on its own militarization in the South China Sea
(Agencies) Updated: 2016-02-20 19:15

BEIJING - China's alleged deployment of a missile system on its Yongxing Island in the South China Sea has been met with frantic overreaction from the United States, which has accused China of "militarizing" the region.

"We see no indication that [...] this militarization effort, has stopped. And it's doing nothing [...] to make the situation there more stable and more secure," US State Department spokesperson John Kirby said Thursday as commercial satellite imagery reportedly indicated the "very recent" placement of missiles on Yongxing Island.

It is no secret that the island, home to the municipal government of China's southernmost city of Sansha, has seen deployment of defence measures for decades. In fact, it is well within China's sovereignty rights, as granted by international law, and has no relation to any sort of regional "militarization."

China has repeatedly made it clear that it has no intention to militarize the region. Its island construction is mainly for maintenance purposes, improving the living conditions for stationed personnel and facilitating the movement of public goods in the region.

Then why is the US stirring up this hype? Previous self-defence moves on Yongxing Island seemed to raise little US interest, still less an uproar such as has been seen in recent days.

The change itself looks deliberate and questionable. Criticizing China, regardless of the circumstances, seems to be the tool that the US is using to move more of its own military weight to the region. It is the US, rather than China, who is posing the most significant risk of militarization.

The US frequently sends military vessels or planes to waters in the South China Sea to conduct reconnaissance against China. A US missile destroyer and strategic bombers intruded waters and airspace adjacent to China's Nansha Islands. Not to mention the joint drills between the USand its allies.

Such muscle-flexing has created heightened tension on the sea, enticing US allies to take more provocative measures to press their illegitimate territorial claims.

The US, with a global network of military bases, has also reopened its bases in the Philippines, a move widely interpreted as stirring up tension in the region.

The US has taken double standards on the militarization in the South China Sea. It automatically links Chinese defence facility deployment to militarization while selectively dodging the Philippines and Vietnam that have militarized the Chinese islands they occupy or the US joint drills and patrols.

When asked if sending the large US naval ships and military planes to the region is militarization at a recent press briefing, State Department spokesperson Mark Toner insisted the practice was "basically freedom of navigation."

The US, the self-styled guardian of freedom of navigation, rationalizes its navy and air force patrols for such purposes and says it will continue to do so. However, "freedom of navigation does not give one country's military aircraft and ships free access to another country's territorial waters and airspace," as a Chinese foreign ministry spokesperson put it.

Instead of questioning China about "militarizing" the region, the US should reflect on its own behavior. Stopping patrols, drills and reconnaissance will be the right way for it to serve its own interests and others.

China and other claimants of the South China Sea have the capacity to work out their disputes through dialogue and negotiation. As a non-claimant, the US should make good on its repeated commitment that it does not take a position on competing territorial claims.

Reactions: Like Like:
 1


----------



## TaiShang

dichoi said:


>



That's wrong. The U-shaped line is not the claimed territorial waters. Do not mischaracterize out of ignorance or intention.

What is claimed is 200NM EEZ for the four island groups in the SCS. When the 200NM and CS overlaps with other nations' waters (such as the Philippines), we can sit down and negotiate delimitation -- which needs to be done bilaterally as ITLOS has no jurisdiction over it, just like the question of sovereignty.

So, first, sovereignty, second, delimitation, third, activities in territorial waters.

China has historic rights over all the sea features within the U-shaped line.



Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> You see the great joke of ADIZ is US think that by having such Idea, it can control the space and dictate the rule on the sky but they're just shooting themselves on the foot, now China not only has ADIZ is eastern sea but will also be in SCS.



US gives the perfect excuse; their actions ae inconclusive but their implications are tangible in the form of new systems and further development work in the SCS.

I guess China and the US conspire against Vietnam.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## ahojunk

US should reflect on its own militarization in the South China Sea
(Agencies) Updated: 2016-02-20 19:15

BEIJING - China's alleged deployment of a missile system on its Yongxing Island in the South China Sea has been met with frantic overreaction from the United States, which has accused China of "militarizing" the region.

"We see no indication that [...] this militarization effort, has stopped. And it's doing nothing [...] to make the situation there more stable and more secure," US State Department spokesperson John Kirby said Thursday as commercial satellite imagery reportedly indicated the "very recent" placement of missiles on Yongxing Island.

It is no secret that the island, home to the municipal government of China's southernmost city of Sansha, has seen deployment of defence measures for decades. In fact, it is well within China's sovereignty rights, as granted by international law, and has no relation to any sort of regional "militarization."

China has repeatedly made it clear that it has no intention to militarize the region. Its island construction is mainly for maintenance purposes, improving the living conditions for stationed personnel and facilitating the movement of public goods in the region.

Then why is the US stirring up this hype? Previous self-defence moves on Yongxing Island seemed to raise little US interest, still less an uproar such as has been seen in recent days.

The change itself looks deliberate and questionable. Criticizing China, regardless of the circumstances, seems to be the tool that the US is using to move more of its own military weight to the region. It is the US, rather than China, who is posing the most significant risk of militarization.

The US frequently sends military vessels or planes to waters in the South China Sea to conduct reconnaissance against China. A US missile destroyer and strategic bombers intruded waters and airspace adjacent to China's Nansha Islands. Not to mention the joint drills between the USand its allies.

Such muscle-flexing has created heightened tension on the sea, enticing US allies to take more provocative measures to press their illegitimate territorial claims.

The US, with a global network of military bases, has also reopened its bases in the Philippines, a move widely interpreted as stirring up tension in the region.

The US has taken double standards on the militarization in the South China Sea. It automatically links Chinese defence facility deployment to militarization while selectively dodging the Philippines and Vietnam that have militarized the Chinese islands they occupy or the US joint drills and patrols.

When asked if sending the large US naval ships and military planes to the region is militarization at a recent press briefing, State Department spokesperson Mark Toner insisted the practice was "basically freedom of navigation."

The US, the self-styled guardian of freedom of navigation, rationalizes its navy and air force patrols for such purposes and says it will continue to do so. However, "freedom of navigation does not give one country's military aircraft and ships free access to another country's territorial waters and airspace," as a Chinese foreign ministry spokesperson put it.

Instead of questioning China about "militarizing" the region, the US should reflect on its own behavior. Stopping patrols, drills and reconnaissance will be the right way for it to serve its own interests and others.

China and other claimants of the South China Sea have the capacity to work out their disputes through dialogue and negotiation. As a non-claimant, the US should make good on its repeated commitment that it does not take a position on competing territorial claims.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Washington is playing a dangerous game of 'chicken' with the Chinese and Russians, who are attempting to defend themselves from the Washington Consensus, which reduces subject populations to that of serfs. 


While the Russians, following the collapse of the Soviet Union, seemed willing to accept a sort of vassal statehood, it is increasingly today clear that such an assignation is intolerable. Thus, Vladimir Putin enjoys immense popularity as he stands up to the pro-Washington forces inside and outside of the US.

Meanwhile, the Chinese remember all too well the sting of British colonialism: opium addiction and the lasting effects of British presumptions of superiority. The Chinese place in the Washington Consensus has been staked out as, in the case of Russia, supplier of inputs to feed the hungry capitalism of the US and the Western European former colonial masters.

Directed by the United States, and backed up by its military, the real beneficiaries of the Washington Consensus were never intended to be the people of China, who were just viewed as a one billion plus, voracious, consumption-hungry machine for Western goods.

But the Chinese had another idea, and instead of becoming an engine of growth for Western economies, international political economists are now discussing the “China Model” or the “Beijing Consensus.” Chinese Communist Party scholars now tout China as an alternative development model for the former colonized world. This is not what Washington had in mind with its so-called “China Opening” in 1972.

Thus, the US has embarked upon a strategy of containing the rise of Russia and China, rolling back any gains made by states friendly with them and willing to go against the neoliberal grain, and doing this by alternative means without overt or “hot” war. The US military establishment calls this _“asymmetric”_ warfare.

The Obama Administration, while pronouncing nostrums of civility and democracy, terms this multi-pronged attack on the right of self-determination of other countries, _“Leading From Behind,”_ a term borrowed from Nelson Mandela. This is a strategy akin to having a war in which the leading belligerent is _“in the closet,”_ out of view. Both the Russians and the Chinese know that Washington has declared war on them. So now, what does this mean for Asians’ engagement with each other and Washington’s engagement in Asia?

The particular line of contention now revolves around the geostrategically important sea lanes along which move oil from West Asia and North Africa to Japan and goods mostly produced in China yet consumed in every corner of the world. Because the Western media have touted the endangerment of global commerce caused by Chinese interference with these sea lanes, blogger Peter Lee decided to take a closer look. What he found is that even Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe reportedly told the Diet (the Japanese Parliament) that _“there are alternative routes”_ for the Strait of Malacca, _“unlike Hormuz.”_

He concluded that we who are forced to rely on Western media have been fed a bunch of propaganda and, in reality, the South China Sea and the Strait of Malacca are not a critical sea lane for US allies Japan and South Korea and offers the real-time map of maritime activity to prove it. So, with the veneer of legitimacy completely torn away from US justifications for its actions in the region, what exactly are China and the US doing in the South China Sea?

*Sea Power and The New Silk Road*
China has proposed reviving The Silk Road that once connected Asians and Europeans. It calls this effort the New Silk Road and has the financial power to encourage countries along the route to participate in the regional opportunities brought about by extensive land and sea linkages.

The New Silk Road envisions a peaceful integration of the region fostering development of the Continent as a whole. A development that could be explained 'of Asia by Asians for Asians.' Yet because of its military presence in the form of bases from West Asia to the archipelago countries in the East, the US military is present, blocking any Asian-led effort at integration and already enforcing US policies of containment, rollback, and “leading from behind.”

This US military presence can be found in Syria and Turkey in the West, the Philippines in the East, and Afghanistan and Pakistan in between. And one by one, the US is employing a direct military conquest strategy, as well as the old tried and true divide-and-rule strategy. Resistance to US hegemony in the Philippines had resulted in the US military being kicked out of the country, but now it is set to return. The US scored a _“two-fer”_ when it was able to secure its return to the Philippines while hawking the dangers of Chinese Imperialism.

The Japanese people have consistently voted in favor of local candidates who promise to stand up to the US and demand removal of American bases there, only to be betrayed by the central government in Tokyo. At least fifteen US bases in South Korea allow the imperial intruder to keep an eye on China and China-friendly North Korea from a close distance. It appears that Malaysia may be a target of Washington’s asymmetric warfare: one of its commercial airliners was shot down over Ukraine; another just disappeared without a trace—to this day. Now, Malaysia is in the midst of extreme political turmoil after $671 million mysteriously appeared in Prime Minister Razak’s personal bank account and he was unable to convincingly explain to the public how it got there.

But Malaysia shares with Indonesia (site of the historic Bandung Conference) the Strait of Malacca which is the gateway to the Bay of Bengal (Myanmar, Bangladesh, and India) from the South China Sea. Curiously, Vietnam, still feeling the effects of the Vietnam War, just asked Washington for a greater role in countering China’s actions in the South China Sea. Of China, Taiwan, Vietnam, the Philippines, and Malaysia, that all have claims on some of the Spratley Islands, China is the only country that had not constructed an airfield or done reclamation work on its claimed islands, according to the Center for Strategic and International Studies.

Once China began its reclamation and construction work is when the “problems” in the South China Sea began.

*US Provocations*
The United States has sent a steady stream of warships into the area claiming its right to navigate on the high seas. In December 2015, the US claimed that China’s militarism in the area had eroded navigational safety in the South China Sea. In its rejoinder, China warned the US not to be _“provocative.”_ Last month, the US began air and sea“patrols” in the South China Sea sending one of its warships within twelve nautical miles of one of China’s reclaimed islands. This month, the war of words escalated to limited kinetic action as flares were fired by a refueling US KC-130 Hercules while on air patrol. The US insists that it will continue its military patrols over the South China Sea as is consistent with international law.

The bottom line is that US actions indicate that the US gives not one whit about international law. It breaks international law everyday that it tortures, kills, bombs and maims the innocent. It threatens with asymmetric warfare any country that dares to challenge its ability to impose a neoliberal agenda on foreign citizens.

The case of Bolivarian Venezuela is a good example—both during Hugo Chavez’s tenure and today, with President Maduro. The list of countries being subjected to such treatment by the US is growing, something I previously thought was not possible. I wrote earlier that the US needs to forget its pivot to Asia and concentrate on improving the well being of its citizens, most of whom are suffering. While China focuses on lifting its citizens out of poverty, the US leadership seems bent on plunging more Americans into poverty as the military-industrial-national-security state plans to spend one trillion dollars on war and domestic policing. And no presidential candidates are willing to even talk about this travesty now that Senator Rand Paul has dropped out of the race. And you can count on the US media to keep the propaganda going. Sadly, somewhere in Washington, D.C. a tiny group of insiders is itching for a war with China and Russia. Let it be remembered that I voted against every war funding bill and the Pentagon budget while I was in Congress. Usually there were only a few, like Ron Paul, who joined me in those votes.

I still believe it is sinful for the US to spend so much on war, death, and destruction, especially while babies in the US go to bed hungry every night and people freeze in their homes for lack of heat or on the street for lack of shelter.

What is America doing in the South China Sea? — RT Op-Edge

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Oops post on wrong section, @Deino please move it to China & Far East


Thanks


----------



## CHD

If USA dont move from one conflict to another , How will they justify their huge defence budgets, how will USA power projection survive if the rest of the world becomes peaceful and prosperous, how will USA shape their foreign policy if they cant show a bogeman to their nation.USA foreign policy is based on kill/destroy any competition

As i have said before Islamic terrorism/jihad is in between stage till USA finds its next target after the communists and was created to fill the gap

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## TheNoob

They seem to always have their nose where it doesnt belong.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## anon45

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> lol isn't that enough?



Not really, no. Its only obvious American airlines would do so, they have no skin in this. This doesn't exactly add to claims of sovereignty over the area as an ADIZ does not denote sovereignty over an area. If the US military (along with other militaries) ignore China's ADIZ and China cannot send anything to intercept then its ADIZ loses credibility. 


Given this concerns the US specifically ,could you source where the Chinese military has ignored an American ADIZ? Sounds like a good way to get intercepted, and that would make headlines which I haven't seen.


----------



## Dungeness

The tougher the talk; the grimmer the ground reality.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## dichoi

TaiShang said:


> That's wrong. The U-shaped line is not the claimed territorial waters. Do not mischaracterize out of ignorance or intention.
> 
> What is claimed is 200NM EEZ for the four island groups in the SCS. When the 200NM and CS overlaps with other nations' waters (such as the Philippines), we can sit down and negotiate delimitation -- which needs to be done bilaterally as ITLOS has no jurisdiction over it, just like the question of sovereignty.
> 
> So, first, sovereignty, second, delimitation, third, activities in territorial waters.
> 
> China has historic rights over all the sea features within the U-shaped line.



Nine dashed claim is fabricated by KMT in 1948. China CPC has copied this idea from KMT. Vietnam has controlled Islands from long time ago in the past, without troubles with China.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## dichoi

.
*South China Sea dispute: US military will continue operations in region*
*Responding to reports of China’s deployment of missile launchers on the island, the US said it would continue to operate anywhere that international law allows*




mages taken by the private company ImageSat International appear to show that two batteries of eight missile launchers and a radar system were deployed to Woody Island in the South China Sea in the past week. Photograph: STR/AFP/Getty Images

The US military will continue to “fly, sail and operate” anywhere that international law allows, Barack Obama’s spokesman said on Wednesday, responding to reports of China’s deployment of surface-to-air missile launchers on a disputed island in the South China Sea.

Beijing’s provocative move threatens to heighten tensions with the US and its regional allies in a critical shipping route. Images taken by the private company ImageSat International appear to show that two batteries of eight missile launchers and a radar system were deployed to Woody Island in the past week.

White House press secretary Josh Earnest said he has seen the reports and some of the commercial images but did not provide independent verification. Despite fears of military escalation, he made clear that the US would continue to make its presence felt in the region.

“We have maintained that this is something that should be resolved peacefully among the claimants,” Earnest told reporters on Wednesday. “At the same time, the United States military has undertaken operations to indicate our view, and make clear in pretty stark terms our view, that we intend to continue to fly, sail and operate anywhere that international law allows.”

A patrol by a US navy destroyer came within 12 nautical miles of Triton Island in the Paracels last month, earning Chinese condemnation. America has also conducted sea and air patrols near artificial islands built by China in the Spratly islands chain, including by two B-52 strategic bombers in November.

Earnest welcomed this week’s Association of Southeastern Asian Nations (Asean) summit hosted by Obama in California, where members signed an agreement to work for peace and stability and avoid militarisation of the sea. They had made a “direct commitment”, he said, to clarify territorial maritime claims in accordance with international law and peacefully resolve disputes.

The US does not assert ownership of any territories in the South China Sea but has warned that Chinese aggression could impair global trade. Earnest added: “The US interest is not in particular claims on any of the land features but rather in the continued free flow of commerce in this region of the world. That has significant consequences for the global economy and significant consequences for the US economy.”

sked if China’s actions flew in the face of such an agreement, the press secretary noted that China had not signed it. “I think this is an indication, though, that the 10 or so countries in southeast Asia who also have claims in that region of the world are committed to the approach that we have advocated, which is the peaceful resolution of these disputes in a way that doesn’t ramp up the military presence or military capabilities that are located in these disputed territories.”

China claims most of the South China Sea, through which more than $5tn in global trade passes every year, and has been building runways and other infrastructure on artificial islands to strengthen its claims. Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei, the Philippines and Taiwan have rival claims.

Taiwan’s defence ministry has said the missile batteries were set up on Woody Island in the Paracels chain, which has been under Chinese control for decades but is also claimed by Taiwan and Vietnam.

Earlier on Wednesday, John Kerry, the US secretary of state, called for a diplomatic resolution. “There is every evidence every day that there has been an increase of militarisation of one kind or another,” he said. “It’s of serious concern. We’ve had these conversations with the Chinese, and I’m confident that over the next days we will have further, very serious conversation on this.”

The Chinese Defense Ministry told Reuters that the latest reports about missile deployment were nothing but “hype”.

Foreign minister Wang Yi told reporters the “limited and necessary self-defence facilities” China had on islands and reefs where it has personnel stationed was “consistent with the right to self-protection that China is entitled to under international law”.

South China Sea dispute: US military will continue operations in region | World news | The Guardian

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## sicsheep

anon45 said:


> Just a statement of the obvious, they are ignoring China's ADIZ by Korea as well. Airlines will still follow it.



Yeah, just like we are ignoring Japan's ADIZ and Russia is ignoring US ADIZ right? 

If we announce ADIZ in SCS, it will not be targeting US, US will do what it always does, but not US is not a claimant party in SCS, and does not take side in the dispute, so we could care less about what Harris thinks.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## sicsheep

C130 said:


> spanked?? who's the one that cries every time a patrol of ships or plane to fly over your reclaimed islands.
> 
> 
> 
> everyone should just ignore China.
> 
> 
> or we'll just set off a nuke underwater creating a mini-tsunami to wash your island away



we should set off a few in SCS to give Cambodia and Laos a longer coast line

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## C130

RT-OP edge
*
After serving in the Georgia Legislature, in 1992, Cynthia McKinney won a seat in the US House of Representatives. She was the first African-American woman from Georgia in the US Congress. In 2005, McKinney was a vocal critic of the government’s response to Hurricane Katrina and was the first member of Congress to file articles of impeachment against George W. Bush. In 2008, Cynthia McKinney won the Green Party nomination for the US presidency.

*
bias opinion discarded 


this would be like a anti-communist Chinese writing a propaganda filled opinion in the Washington Post about the crap China has done to its own people and it's growing domination of Asian and the SCS.

I like how she adds this in the last paragraph



> The case of Bolivarian Venezuela is a good example—both during Hugo Chavez’s tenure and today, with President Maduro.




*this is a good example*. what is happening in Venezuela is the U.S fault. wow  this idiot *would* want this country to turn into Venezuela or a Zimbabwe.

please renounce your U.S citizenship and go to Russia,China, or Venezuela.






.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

Dungeness said:


> Vietnam used to be a country of braves that pride itself of victories over superpowers. Nowadays, they are just hiding behind US butt like a bunch of cowards. Look that they have been posting! It is a none stop stream of US will do this, or US will do that to you. Pathetic!



Let enemy of enemy to counter enemy, it is simple tactic. What did Mao Zedong said to you Chinese : sitting on maintain, watching tigers in fighting.

Today, Uncle Sam is indirectly invited in to SCS dispute by Chinese. Congrats China...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## rott

C130 said:


> spanked?? who's the one that cries every time a patrol of ships or plane to fly over your reclaimed islands.
> 
> 
> 
> everyone should just ignore China.
> 
> 
> or we'll just set off a nuke underwater creating a mini-tsunami to wash your island away


This is called posturing. First we build the island and the US sends ships and planes, and we respond by placing the SAMs. Now it's USA's move. 
Get it, little boy? If not, we'll send you to the showers.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

Dungeness said:


> Vietnam used to be a country of braves that pride itself of victories over superpowers. Nowadays, they are just hiding behind US butt like a bunch of cowards. Look that they have been posting! It is a none stop stream of US will do this, or US will do that to you. Pathetic!


We are brave but not stupid. We have seen enough bloodshed. Why don't you reduce yourself to the size of Vietnam and we talk?


----------



## BoQ77

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> The bottom line is that US actions indicate that the US gives not one whit about international law. It breaks international law everyday that it tortures, kills, bombs and maims the innocent. It threatens with asymmetric warfare any country that dares to challenge its ability to impose a neoliberal agenda on foreign citizens.
> 
> What is America doing in the South China Sea? — RT Op-Edge



I wonder whether the writer would criticise US for violation of international law in South China Sea or not?
as the title "What is American doing in the South China Sea" 

To me, US doesn't violate the international law when they challenge excessive claims in SCS, no matter what they did to tortures, kills, bombs,... in other places.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Reduce ourself to the size of Vietnam before talk?...you will have to wait until the end of this earth it was the fantasy dream for generation and generation of your ancestor up until you to dream a break apart and weaker china
> but you only witness that we become bigger and bigger such as we recover more territories with reclamation on SCS, And there is millions reason why is good to be Chinese, Northern and southern Hans are fighting collectively for China, we're like the Borg, any enemies resistance is futile. The uniqueness of Chinese people is beyond Vietnamese comprehension.


ha ha ha

seriously I wonder why you spend billions of dollars digging the sea floor, ruining the enviroment, reclaiming sands, just successfully creating some tinny land mass. all of this to risk a nuclear war with America. you really want to put the fate of China on the poker table? 4,000 years chinese civilization can go down the drain.

your brother russia still holds a large part of China, isn´t? not to mention the lost land: Mongolia.

I pity you.


----------



## Globenim

How provocative of China! 

You can't just militarize your hometurf with defenses on Chinese islands that disable offensive U.S. weapons deployed 6000miles away from the U.S. mainland in front of your shores for peace and freedom bombing you!

Be more responsible China!


----------



## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

anon45 said:


> Not really, no. Its only obvious American airlines would do so, they have no skin in this. This doesn't exactly add to claims of sovereignty over the area as an ADIZ does not denote sovereignty over an area. If the US military (along with other militaries) ignore China's ADIZ and China cannot send anything to intercept then its ADIZ loses credibility.
> 
> Given this concerns the US specifically ,could you source where the Chinese military has ignored an American ADIZ? Sounds like a good way to get intercepted, and that would make headlines which I haven't seen.



ADIZ doesn't mean we claim the sovereignty over the entire area but to signal that we have control over that space as you American did. And what make you think that we're not able to send anything to intercept in SCS regarding the ADIZ, we have SAM, we have 3 km airstrip and we will have fighters there, we can certainly reinforce our ADIZ credibility.

I don't need to list any source regarding China ignored American ADIZ but base on reciprocity, you will get the same treatment as you did regarding our ADIZ

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## nang2

Gamer-X said:


> If USA dont move from one conflict to another , How will they justify their huge defence budgets, how will USA power projection survive if the rest of the world becomes peaceful and prosperous, how will USA shape their foreign policy if they cant show a bogeman to their nation.USA foreign policy is based on kill/destroy any competition
> 
> As i have said before Islamic terrorism/jihad is in between stage till USA finds its next target after the communists and was created to fill the gap


Good observation!


----------



## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Viet said:


> ha ha ha
> 
> seriously I wonder why you spend billions of dollars digging the sea floor, ruining the enviroment, reclaiming sands, just successfully creating some tinny land mass. all of this to risk a nuclear war with America. you really want to put the fate of China on the poker table? 4,000 years chinese civilization can go down the drain.
> 
> your brother russia still holds a large part of China, isn´t? not to mention the lost land: Mongolia.
> 
> I pity you.



YES, we're willing to spend billions to control the strategic area regardless how tiny it is. And I don't have any doubt that you viets like to dream of nuclear exchange between China and US but there is more chance that US will nuke Vietnam more than China because it's an easy target without any option of retaliation, and Americans can get easily away without any accountability as how they did in Vietnam war with those agent orange, you viets couldn't simply retaliate. And for the same tonken you viets don't want to put the fate of Vietnam on the poker table against China...and that's how you become our vessal state for millennium...I guess I understand your logic...

As for territories, we earned and lost throughtout the history, that's not a big deal about that, Tibet and Xinjiang that were annexed thanks to Mongol and Manchu...and you never know next might be Vietnam 

And pity for me??  no I pity you over your hopelss dream to see the reduced size of China but wake up with nightmare to see our islands reclamation allow us to fully control the SCS include which your south Vietnam is now effectively under our monitor screen,

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## dichoi

.Japan, U.S. join Philippines in South China Sea navy drills | The Japan Times






A Maritime Self-Defense Force P-3C patrol aircraft launches anti-missile flares during a naval fleet review in Sagami Bay off Yokosuka, Kanagawa Prefecture, in October 2012. | REUTERS

*Japan, U.S. join Philippines in South China Sea navy drills*

BLOOMBERG, KYODO

PALAWAN, PHILIPPINES – The U.S. and Japan are conducting separate military drills with the Philippines near disputed islands in the South China Sea, signaling support for the country as China builds out reclaimed reefs in the waters.

The annual CARAT Philippines joint exercise started Monday off Palawan island and will run until Friday, according to U.S. Navy spokesman Arlo Abrahamson. The Philippine Navy and the Maritime Self-Defense Force are holding drills around the same island through Saturday, the MSDF said last week.

The exercise is seen as an opportunity to display the strength of Japan’s cooperation with the Philippines, with an eye on China’s controversial land reclamation on the disputed Spratly Islands in the South China Sea.

About 20 personnel belonging to an aircraft group at MSDF Kanoya Air Base in Kagoshima Prefecture arrived in Puerto Princesa City, the capital of the Philippine island of Palawan in the South China Sea, on a P3-C Orion patrol aircraft on Sunday.

Personnel from the Philippine military are scheduled to to board the plane for a flight over international waters above the South China Sea starting Tuesday.

MSDF chief Adm. Tomohisa Takei, who visited the island in February during an official visit to the Philippines, said warning and surveillance activity “is not envisioned.”

At a summit in Tokyo on June 4, Philippine President Benigno Aquino III and Prime Minister Shinzo Abe agreed to begin negotiations on an accord for the transfer of defense equipment and technology in the fields of disaster relief and maritime security, as their nations bolster security ties amid tensions over China’s reclamation work.

Although details have yet to be worked out, Japanese sources have said P3-C patrol aircraft and radar-related equipment are seen as potential export items.

The U.S., meanwhile, has backed Southeast Asian nations including the Philippines as tensions escalate with China over territorial claims in the South China Sea.

“This year’s exercise reflects more than two decades of increasingly complex training ashore, at sea and in the air,” Abrahamson said.

The drill includes a sea phase with the littoral combat ship USS Fort Worth, diving and salvage ship USNS Safeguard and a P-3 Orion surveillance aircraft, and at least one Philippine frigate, according to the U.S. Navy. It’s the first time a littoral combat ship has taken part in CARAT Philippines.

Tensions in the area have risen recently with China warning planes and ships away from reefs where it is reclaiming land. The Fort Worth had an encounter last month with a Chinese ship — it was reportedly followed by a frigate — and a U.S. surveillance plane was repeatedly warned by radio to divert from its path near the reefs.

“We prefer to look at it as a strategy of regional stability and less of defense,” U.S. Rear Adm. William Merz, commander of Task Force 74, told reporters on Palawan in response to a question about how the drills may boost the Philippines’ ability to defend territory. “We have a lot of history that these types of exercises, working with our allies, tend to lead to a very stable environment.”

China will construct facilities to meet “necessary” military needs and various civilian needs, after it finishes reclamation in the near term, its Foreign Ministry said in a statement this month. The construction doesn’t target any nation and won’t affect navigation or aviation freedom, it said.

Protecting freedom of navigation in the disputed waters resonates in the region because more than $5 trillion worth of goods is shipped through the South China Sea each year. It is also home to about one/tenth of the world’s annual fishing catch.

China criticized drills involving more than 11,000 soldiers from the Philippines, U.S. and Australia near the contested islands in April. The expanded war games were inappropriate and ran counter to efforts to ease tensions, the state-run Global Times said at the time.

“The intent of CARAT is enhancing capabilities, navy-to- navy capabilities, increasing interoperability,” Rear Adm. Leopoldo Alano, commander of the Philippine Fleet, told reporters Monday on Palawan. “These can be used both in wartime missions or missions other than war.”

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

Dungeness said:


> Vietnam being a tiny country is not China's fault. Agent Orange wiped out a lot of population.



How many were wiped out in China in big leaf forward and culture revolution ?



Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> , we will strip *naked and expose* ourself to them...well it's not far from true, there is nothing to hide in the Island



Looks like this in China ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Rechoice said:


> Looks like this in China ?



I guess that had attracted of Vietnamese female tourists to China and came to settle in China, we should build more like that

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## zheng2

dichoi said:


> Han Chinese invaded in to Vietnam, we kicked you back to China. The story is finished.
> 
> 交趾 is written in Hanzi, imitated the sound speaking from old Vietnamese language, " kẻ chợ" (Kinh people), "Ke" is written as 交, "cho" is written as 趾. The map from Ming Dynasty of China, it stated clearly where is 交趾界 (Vietnam border) and where is 交趾洋 (Vietnamese Ocean). Study more, kid.
> 
> Chinese have to stop lying about history. In Francisco Conference 1951 after WW II, with representative of delegate from State Vietnam under leading of Bao Dai Emperor Vietnam's, Claim of China in East Sea of Vietnam is rejected by voting.
> 
> Islands belong to Vietnam from long time ago in the past. China has just stolen our Island from 1956 (by Taiwan), 1974 and 1988 recently (by mainland China) with force.


vietnamese has language?
you must be kidding you use chinese words in ancient times and now uses western words.
viets has no language even do not have a name.
the word vietnam is translated by the french from chinese words.KID.
and there is no such a country called vietnam at WW2 stupid,there are just france and japan colony.
the vietnam country is a puppet control by chinese emperor,you have no right to call you leader an emperor but a king,answered to chinese emperor.kid
you should learn more kid.
and those seas is ordered to belong to chinese in 1945 meetings you stole those islands in 1951 you stupid kid.
stop barking and come on fighting useless dump.



Zero_wing said:


> Oh my really now since when did china became archipelagic state? again china as no real claim to the area obviously you did not read any post you just repeat the old commie policy of your imperialist country the only thefts here is you guys for claim a whole damn sea as your own and stealing everything from my country and everyone else well since you guys made a lots of enemies lets see how you people fair when people will finally get sick and tired of your arrogance or even better after the ruling comes out lets see how much and china risk as a international devenant


so what enemies,let them come.
so of them are not enemies but thives and clowns.
you should be honest,stop barking and give those islands back,you even do not have the power and tech to make artificial islands,we finished them in just 4 months.
go and call your american papa and japanese mama to colonize your pathetic land again.


----------



## ahojunk

U.S. hype over 'militarization' in South China Sea double standards
Source: Xinhua | 2016-02-25 21:02:56 | Editor: huaxia

BEIJING, Feb. 25 (Xinhua) -- The whole brouhaha stirred up by the United States over alleged "militarization in the South China Sea" is clearly double standards, Defense Ministry spokesperson Wu Qian said Thursday at a monthly press briefing in Beijing.

Several high-ranking U.S. officials have recently accused China of militarizing the South China Sea and ratcheting up tensions.

The U.S. has sent military vessels and planes into China's territory without authorization to conduct surveillance, he said.

Some countries in the South China Sea are illegally occupying China's islands and reefs, and have deployed radars and artillery there.

He added that the U.S. had called on its allies and partners to conduct "targeted" joint drills and patrols.

"Is that not a kind of militarization?" he asked.

He said that the U.S. should not turn a blind eye to all those behaviors while throwing accusations at China. Otherwise it was blatant double standards.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ahojunk

U.S. hype over 'militarization' in South China Sea double standards
Source: Xinhua | 2016-02-25 21:02:56 | Editor: huaxia

BEIJING, Feb. 25 (Xinhua) -- The whole brouhaha stirred up by the United States over alleged "militarization in the South China Sea" is clearly double standards, Defense Ministry spokesperson Wu Qian said Thursday at a monthly press briefing in Beijing.

Several high-ranking U.S. officials have recently accused China of militarizing the South China Sea and ratcheting up tensions.

The U.S. has sent military vessels and planes into China's territory without authorization to conduct surveillance, he said.

Some countries in the South China Sea are illegally occupying China's islands and reefs, and have deployed radars and artillery there.

He added that the U.S. had called on its allies and partners to conduct "targeted" joint drills and patrols.

"Is that not a kind of militarization?" he asked.

He said that the U.S. should not turn a blind eye to all those behaviors while throwing accusations at China. Otherwise it was blatant double standards.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## dichoi

.Vietnam wants full lifting of U.S. arms embargo | The Japan Times

*Vietnam wants full lifting of U.S. arms embargo*

AP
WASHINGTON – Vietnam wants the U.S. to lift fully an embargo on arms sales that was eased last year, but Washington is calling for more progress by the communist-governed nation on improving human rights, their respective ambassadors said Tuesday.

This year marks the 20th anniversary of the resumption of diplomatic relations between the former enemies. Vietnam says an end to the embargo, which was partially lifted last October to help improve Vietnam’s maritime security, would show relations are fully normalized.

“It has political symbolism,” Ambassador Pham Quang Vinh told the Center for Strategic and International Studies, a Washington think tank.

The U.S. and Vietnam have deepened ties as they find common cause in countering a rising China. Vietnam is also among 12 nations negotiating a U.S.-backed trans-Pacific trade pact that Washington wants to finalize this year to help boost exports to Asia.

The U.S., however, has voiced concern about Russia refueling military planes at the Vietnamese base at Cam Ranh Bay. U.S. Ambassador Ted Osius blamed Russia for using its arrangement with Vietnam for “provocative” actions that could raise regional tensions.

Vinh said Vietnam has a “clear understanding” with the U.S. that it won’t let its airports and other facilities to be used in a way harmful to third countries. He did not elaborate.

Osius said the most difficult aspect of the U.S.-Vietnam relationship remains human rights. He said there is increasing space for religious and political expression in Vietnam, but more progress is needed for the relationship to reach its fullest potential.

He urged a moratorium on arrests under provisions of Vietnamese law that he said are currently being revised to make them consistent with its constitution. The provisions cover areas such as Internet freedom, freedom of speech and assembly, he said.

Despite periodic releases of detainees, Human Rights Watch says there continues to be a “revolving door of political prisoners” in Vietnam with at least 29 prosecutions in 2014.

Vinh was stony-faced as one high-profile dissident, Cu Huy Ha Vu, who was released last April, criticized the government’s record on human rights at Tuesday’s event.

The ambassador said that everyone is equal under the law in Vietnam and there are no prisoners of conscience.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## anon45

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> ADIZ doesn't mean we claim the sovereignty over the entire area but to signal that we have control over that space as you American did. And what make you think that we're not able to send anything to intercept in SCS regarding the ADIZ, we have SAM, we have 3 km airstrip and we will have fighters there, we can certainly reinforce our ADIZ credibility.



Unanswered violations of the ADIZ prove lack of control. We will see what China does, because it is going to be up to China to enforce it, or let it lose credibility. How would China enforce an ADIZ with a SAM without escalatiing the situation? AFAIK a SAM could only 'enforce' it by locking on to a craft... China doesn't want to see armed american fighters instead of unarmed recon craft or old american bombers. 

We will see if China can enforce its ADIZ with aircraft.




Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> I don't need to list any source regarding China ignored American ADIZ but base on reciprocity, you will get the same treatment as you did regarding our ADIZ



But we already did so in 2013, and yet it apparently hasn't happened yet...

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/27/w...2s-into-chinas-expanded-air-defense-zone.html

I am confident the US will be able to intercept Chinese planes not following its ADIZ. We will see if China can do the same.


----------



## xunzi

Penguin said:


> Indeed, it is not the size of the island that matters. What matters is whether it is an islands under the law i.e. naturally formed. A terraformed reef - whatever its size - is not recognized as such. No sovereignty claims can be derived from it. That includes self-defence.
> 
> As for the "everybody does it, so it is ok for us to do so" argument, that's a fine philosophy. If 'everybody' steals, it is therefor ok for you to do so (in spite of both the law and morals) . If everybody jumps of a cliff, so should you? The point here is of course that it is a fallacy that everybody does it.
> 
> Face up to it, it is all about - increasingly scarce - resources. But then again, that's what everybody has been blaming US for in relation to Middle East. So, just admit it is about recources and don't complain when others (Russia > on the pole, US > in the MidEast,) do so.
> 
> HAWAII is a naturally formed Island, part of the US. Where's the land reclamation?
> 
> The rest of the world (and I don't mean the US) just sees a game of landgrab in the SCS. Naturally, governments are concerned, for obvious reasons.


You have a weird, double standard interpretation of international law governing the artificial islands. Let me remind you that international law (UNCLOS) allows any country to build artificial islands as long as it is within their administrative rights to do so. A natural island or artificial is an asset, a property of a sovereign country, and that sovereign country has the right for self-defense. Whether it is subject to 12nm entitlement requires negotiation and international laws where it is allowed. We have not yet make any claim on 12nm of artificial islands. Let us remind you of that.

Our position is always consistent with international norm and laws. There should be no double standard regarding to any state interest. An analogy to jumping of a cliff is a false statement. That is essentially telling us to watch other claimants building up islands while we stand and watch. 

It is never about the resources. This accusation is unacceptable. It is about protecting our sea lane from subject of intimidation on blockage, forming an intelligent network to defend national security, and to provide humanitarian aid to civilian commercial ships. I'm sure you know that too well.

List of your artificial islands: Category:Artificial islands of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The concern is overblown by you.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## xunzi

anon45 said:


> Unanswered violations of the ADIZ prove lack of control. We will see what China does, because it is going to be up to China to enforce it, or let it lose credibility. How would China enforce an ADIZ with a SAM without escalatiing the situation? AFAIK a SAM could only 'enforce' it by locking on to a craft... China doesn't want to see armed american fighters instead of unarmed recon craft or old american bombers.
> 
> We will see if China can enforce its ADIZ with aircraft.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But we already did so in 2013, and yet it apparently hasn't happened yet...
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/27/w...2s-into-chinas-expanded-air-defense-zone.html
> 
> I am confident the US will be able to intercept Chinese planes not following its ADIZ. We will see if China can do the same.


We did monitor B52 violation in our ADIZ but since they only cross over a tiny bit and flight back, it doesn't give enough time to intercept. Intercept only occur when you fly too close. For that, we done hundred of interception per year since the establishment of ADIZ.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

US presence in Hawaii and SCS for stop expansionism of China in Specific Ocean. The different is that Hawaii is oversea territory of USA , but Paracel and Spresly is Vietnam's sea territory, part of its was stolen by Chinese recently..

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rechoice

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> I guess that had attracted of Vietnamese female tourists to China and came to settle in China, we should build more like that



This project is shameful for China.


----------



## Pangu

The Americans as usual are getting ahead of themselves, but what will be, will be...

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Dungeness

F-22Raptor said:


> “When they put their advanced missile systems on the Paracels, and when they build three 10,000 foot runways in the Spratlys on the basis that they’ve reclaimed — *when they do all of that, they’re changing the operational landscape in the South China Sea*,” Harris said.
> “So, that is what’s changed. The United States and our patrols — military patrols, air and maritime in the South China Sea haven’t really changed. We have a consistent presence in the Western Pacific, and we have had that for decades.”
> 
> But was is different is how much influence China has over the region, “short of war they can rise to the level of having tactical control of the water ways of the South China Sea.”



Sorry for the inconvenience, Mr. Harris, you and your fleet will just have to get used to the changing reality, after all change is the way of life. It is China's neighborhood, and being a responsible global power, China will take it from here. Thank you very much for years of excellent service, and don't forget to stop by in HK and have some fun. Ciao!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Aepsilons

mike2000 is back said:


> I just found out that S.Korea also have a dispute with China over Socotra Rock(some say its also claimed by even Japan ).



It is a minor eez clarification, Japan has no control over the Socotra rocks nor does it wish to antagonize Korea nor China over such trivial issues. Anyways, as far as i know Seoul and Beijing are currently working out to finalize a deal involving the features 苏岩礁. So, let's be optimistic, shall, we, Michael? 

The same way as how Japan and Korea will learn to work on the Liancourt issue. I think Japan is prepared to make concessions.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## mike2000 is back

Nihonjin1051 said:


> It is a minor eez clarification, Japan has no control over the Socotra rocks nor does it wish to antagonize Korea nor China over such trivial issues. Anyways, as far as i know Seoul and Beijing are currently working out to finalize a deal involving the features 苏岩礁. So, let's be optimistic, shall, we, Michael?
> 
> The same way as how Japan and Korea will learn to work on the Liancourt issue. I think Japan is prepared to make concessions.



To be honest, I think Japan should have ceeded control of the islands it has to China, S.Korea and Russia. As a loser of the war it should have renounced all these disputed islands and avoid stocking resentment from its Asian neighbours. 
To be honest though, the U.S played a role in this, The U.S instead of transfering these islands to Chinese and Japanese control after world she instead transfered them back to Japan and didnt force Japan to give up its claims over islands claimed by Korea and Russia. NOW Jappan has no intention of handing them.over. That was the wrong thing to do by the U.S. 
Japan should fix this mistake today and make things right IMO.


----------



## Aepsilons

mike2000 is back said:


> To be honest, I think Japan should have ceeded control of the islands it has to China, S.Korea and Russia. As a loser of the war it should have renounced all these disputed islands and avoid stocking resentment from its Asian neighbours.
> To be honest though, the U.S played a role in this, The U.S instead of transfering these islands to Chinese and Japanese control after world she instead transfered them back to Japan and didnt force Japan to give up its claims over islands claimed by Korea and Russia. NOW Jappan has no intention of handing them.over. That was the wrong thing to do by the U.S.
> Japan should fix this mistake today and make things right IMO.



Therein lies the issue many of us have in regards to the formal peace treaty, which was, ultimately, US-centric as per the terms of agreement. It would have been better had the United States accepted Japan's request for conditional surrender , which would have actually enabled all sides (Nationalist government of China, the Soviet Union, The United States, the UK, France, and Japan ) to have come to the peace table and discussed terms of surrender in a comprehensive and mutually beneficial manner, rather, instead of having been imposed on such a unilateral manner the way it was.

As for the issue of the Senkakus/ Diaoyutais and Dokdo/ Takeshima, these are rather miniscule inhabitable rock formations and do not have any economic incentives for either Japan, China or Korea, rather are areas that may be subject to politicization and national sentiments, which has been clearly shown. I do not disagree with you , in principle, that Dokdo should be recognized as a truly Korean territory , besides, Korea already has physical ownership of said island. In fact one of the negative talking points in Japanese foreign policy has been in the retention of claims on Takeshima / Dokdo , which actually serves to hurt Japanese-Korean interests and relations. I am optimistic that eventually, as the recent Seoul-Tokyo Comfort Women Landmark Deal had shown, Tokyo is currently not opposed to possibility of compromise with Seoul in regards to claim status of Dokdo/ Takeshima. Perhaps both can cosign a joint exploration deal regarding the territorial seas of Korea and Japan , which are contiguous to Dokdo/ Takeshima.

In fact, i believe it will come down to that, just another joint exploration block between Tokyo and Seoul.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## mike2000 is back

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Therein lies the issue many of us have in regards to the formal peace treaty, which was, ultimately, US-centric as per the terms of agreement. It would have been better had the United States accepted Japan's request for conditional surrender , which would have actually enabled all sides (Nationalist government of China, the Soviet Union, The United States, the UK, France, and Japan ) to have come to the peace table and discussed terms of surrender in a comprehensive and mutually beneficial manner, rather, instead of having been imposed on such a unilateral manner the way it was.
> 
> As for the issue of the Senkakus/ Diaoyutais and Dokdo/ Takeshima, these are rather miniscule inhabitable rock formations and do not have any economic incentives for either Japan, China or Korea, rather are areas that may be subject to politicization and national sentiments, which has been clearly shown. I do not disagree with you , in principle, that Dokdo should be recognized as a truly Korean territory , besides, Korea already has physical ownership of said island. In fact one of the negative talking points in Japanese foreign policy has been in the retention of claims on Takeshima / Dokdo , which actually serves to hurt Japanese-Korean interests and relations. I am optimistic that eventually, as the recent Seoul-Tokyo Comfort Women Landmark Deal had shown, Tokyo is currently not opposed to possibility of compromise with Seoul in regards to claim status of Dokdo/ Takeshima. Perhaps both can cosign a joint exploration deal regarding the territorial seas of Korea and Japan , which are contiguous to Dokdo/ Takeshima.
> 
> In fact, i believe it will come down to that, just another joint exploration block between Tokyo and Seoul.



JAPAN CAN STILL MAKE THINGS RIGHT. Just renounce all claims to Korean and Russian islands, and cede Senkakus to China/Taiwan. Its very simple actually. Dont need any magic/diplomatic rprowess to do that.


----------



## Aepsilons

mike2000 is back said:


> JAPAN CAN STILL MAKE THINGS RIGHT. Just renounce all claims to Korean and Russian islands, and cede Senkakus to China/Taiwan. Its very simple actually. Dont need any magic/diplomatic rprowess to do that.



Ideologically there must be compromise in regards to these challenges since Japanese political economy is varied and eclectic with varying points of contention , especially in Government systems. The point is that as we move towards an integrated paradigm, there shall be greater joint cooperation, joint development schema , which will fundamentally change the context of territoriality for ever, in context to the East Asian Regional Praxis.

I suppose it is illustrative of the complex milieu that diplomacy and political reference leads one to appreciate. If i may draw to your own insular policies, it goes with the saying that British politicians are half way for integration with the EU , and halfway out of the EU for more inclusive multilateralism , as well as even secession ideologies, as in the case of recent Scotland-Referendum on Independence. 

The EU referendum is already following the Scottish playbook, Project Fear 2.0 | Ruth Wishart | Opinion | The Guardian

Politic is not a white or black supra-spectrum, it is varied, complex, and has various sub-strata. It also requires one to appreciate each and every single independent variable of the over-arching praxis. 


Regards.

Sincerely,
@Nihonjin1051

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> YES, we're willing to spend billions to control the strategic area regardless how tiny it is. And I don't have any doubt that you viets like to dream of nuclear exchange between China and US but there is more chance that US will nuke Vietnam more than China because it's an easy target without any option of retaliation, and Americans can get easily away without any accountability as how they did in Vietnam war with those agent orange, you viets couldn't simply retaliate. And for the same tonken you viets don't want to put the fate of Vietnam on the poker table against China...and that's how you become our vessal state for millennium...I guess I understand your logic...
> 
> As for territories, we earned and lost throughtout the history, that's not a big deal about that, Tibet and Xinjiang that were annexed thanks to Mongol and Manchu...and you never know next might be Vietnam
> 
> And pity for me??  no I pity you over your hopelss dream to see the reduced size of China but wake up with nightmare to see our islands reclamation allow us to fully control the SCS include which your south Vietnam is now effectively under our monitor screen,


You are nuts!


----------



## mike2000 is back

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Ideologically there must be compromise in regards to these challenges since Japanese political economy is varied and eclectic with varying points of contention , especially in Government systems. The point is that as we move towards an integrated paradigm, there shall be greater joint cooperation, joint development schema , which will fundamentally change the context of territoriality for ever, in context to the East Asian Regional Praxis.
> 
> I suppose it is illustrative of the complex milieu that diplomacy and political reference leads one to appreciate. If i may draw to your own insular policies, it goes with the saying that British politicians are half way for integration with the EU , and halfway out of the EU for more inclusive multilateralism , as well as even secession ideologies, as in the case of recent Scotland-Referendum on Independence.
> 
> The EU referendum is already following the Scottish playbook, Project Fear 2.0 | Ruth Wishart | Opinion | The Guardian
> 
> Politic is not a white or black supra-spectrum, it is varied, complex, and has various sub-strata. It also requires one to appreciate each and every single independent variable of the over-arching praxis.
> 
> 
> Regards.
> 
> Sincerely,
> @Nihonjin1051



Dont really get what you mean my diplomatic friend. 
Anyway as far as Japan doesnt cede the Senkakus islands to PRC or Taiwan and stop claiming Korean and Russian islands while attempting to side-step its past war crimes/revisit its comfort women issues alias 'prostitutes'/yasukuni visits etc, then I don't see the current situation changing much to be honest. These are all issues which Japan has to contend/deal with.


----------



## Rechoice

mike2000 is back said:


> Well, every party here says SCS islands belong to them. To be honest there are just too many disputes/claimants in the region, Vietnam, China, Taiwan(who is also claimed entirely by China. Lol), Philippines, Malaysia and Brunei. China vs Japan over senkakus(or Diayou some will say. Lol) , Japan vs S.Korea over Dockdo islands , Russia vs Japan over kurils islands, and recently I just found out that S.Korea also has a dispute with China over Socotra Rock(some say its also say its claimed by even Japan )..,..........old boyyyyyyy. Too compllicated...... Total confusion.



Vietnam is the first country has been taken Islands into official administration of Vietnam's Kingdom from time of Nguyen Dynasty Vietnam. There is different of our claimant over Paracel and Spratly from others parties here.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ahtan_china

dichoi said:


> Nine dashed claim is fabricated by KMT in 1948. China CPC has copied this idea from KMT. Vietnam has controlled Islands from long time ago in the past, without troubles with China.


The China + USA ally defeated Japan and wined the WWII. So the SCS was belong to China as winner. Nothing dispute


----------



## dichoi

ahtan_china said:


> The China + USA ally defeated Japan and wined the WWII. So the SCS was belong to China as winner. Nothing dispute



without intervention of Soviet Union who liberated Manchuria for you and two nuke dropped in Japan by USA, China is still in occupation of Japan now.

In Sans Francisco conference 1951 for treaty with Japan after WW II, claim of KMT over islands of Vietnam is rejected by voting.

Pls study more before you can troll craps here, kid.


----------



## mike2000 is back

Rechoice said:


> Vietnam is the first country has been taken Islands into official administration of Vietnam's Kingdom from time of Nguyen Dynasty Vietnam. There is different of our claimant over Paracel and Spratly from others parties here.



Lol To each his own bro.


----------



## ahtan_china

dichoi said:


> without intervention of Soviet Union who liberated Manchuria for you and two nuke dropped in Japan by USA, China is still in occupation of Japan now.
> 
> In Sans Francisco conference 1951 for treaty with Japan after WW II, claim of KMT over islands of Vietnam is rejected by voting.
> 
> Pls study more before you can troll craps here, kid.


Sofar the China KMT/TAIWAN didn't gave up SCS.
Ok, It will up to your ability if the Viet will controlled SCS. Hope your Viet has enough economical/military ability to face China. Good luck.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## 21stCentury

Rechoice said:


> Vietnam is the first country has been taken Islands into official administration of Vietnam's Kingdom from time of Nguyen Dynasty Vietnam. There is different of our claimant over Paracel and Spratly from others parties here.



"Sure, buddy"


----------



## Penguin

Dungeness said:


> So a country should not have any capability to defend itself beyond its 12 nmi waters? Can you tell us where do you get this this idea from. Here in NW coast, there are hundred of 100 year old fortress that hosted cannons that had range of beyond that. Are you saying they were illegal in the first place? US has Pac -3 or THAAD with range hundreds of miles, all over the world including in the lower 48, are you telling us they are all illegal?
> 
> Being dispute is precisely the reason that need to be defended. Falkland is the dispute island between UK and Argentina, so all the defense in the islands that UK set up are illegal?
> 
> Are you sure you know what you are talking about?


Do you know what you're talking about. Because I don't see you showing anything in your replies that indicates you've researched the topic and treaties etc. 
Again, back to basics: the sovereignty of China over Woody Island is disputed. That means that the right to put military there 'in defence of "your" territory' is in dispute.

What specific threat is there against Woody Island to warrent a 200km range SAM there? If the argument is 'its our territory and we want to be able to stop incursions in the our territory', remember that your territory ends at 12nmi at best.

Where has Thaad been operationally deployed by the US? Where has US stationed Patriot PAC-3 outside its own territory? Where has US stationed Patriot PAC-3 in disputed territoy? Also, by definition, defence against ballistic missiles demands a different kind of interception scenario (and hence range) than e.g. defence against aircraft and cruise missiles. Who'se ballistic missiles are threatening Woody island?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Penguin

xunzi said:


> Let me remind you that international law (UNCLOS) allows any country to build artificial islands as long as it is within their administrative rights to do so.


Nowhere did I say that was not the case.



xunzi said:


> A natural island or artificial is an asset, a property of a sovereign country, and that sovereign country has the right for self-defense. Whether it is subject to 12nm entitlement requires negotiation and international laws where it is allowed. We have not yet make any claim on 12nm of artificial islands. Let us remind you of that.



Article 60
Artificial islands, installations and structures in the exclusive economic zone
1. In the exclusive economic zone, the coastal State shall have the exclusive right to construct and to authorize and regulate the construction, operation and use of:
(a) artificial islands;
(b) installations and structures for the purposes provided for in article 56 and other economic purposes;
(c) installations and structures which may interfere with the
exercise of the rights of the coastal State in the zone.
2. The coastal State shall have exclusive jurisdiction over such artificial islands, installations and structures, including jurisdiction with regard to customs, fiscal, health, safety and immigration laws and regulations.
3. Due notice must be given of the construction of such artificial islands, installations or structures, and permanent means for giving warning of their presence must be maintained. Any installations or structures which are abandoned or disused shall be removed to ensure safety of navigation, taking into account any generally accepted international standards established in this regard by the competent international organization. Such removal shall also have due regard to fishing, the protection of the marine environment and the rights and duties of other States. Appropriate publicity shall be given to the depth, position and dimensions of any installations or structures not entirely removed.
4. The coastal State may, where necessary, establish reasonable safety zones around such artificial islands, installations and structures in which it may take appropriate measures to ensure the safety both of navigation and of
the artificial islands, installations and structures.
5. The breadth of the safety zones shall be determined by the coastal State, taking into account applicable international standards. Such zones shall be designed to ensure that they are reasonably related to the nature and function of the artificial islands, installations or structures, and shall not exceed a distance of 500 metres around them, measured from each point of their outer edge, except as authorized by generally accepted international standards or as recommended by the competent international organization. Due notice shall be given of the extent of safety zones.
6. All ships must respect these safety zones and shall comply with generally accepted international standards regarding navigation in the vicinity of artificial islands, installations, structures and safety zones.
7. Artificial islands, installations and structures and the safety zones around them may not be established where interference may be caused to the use of recognized sea lanes essential to international navigation.
8. Artificial islands, installations and structures do not possess the status of islands. They have no territorial sea of their own, and their presence does not affect the delimitation of the territorial sea, the exclusive economic
zone or the continental shelf.

PART VIII
REGIME OF ISLANDS
Article 121
Regime of islands
1. An island is a naturally formed area of land, surrounded by water, which is above water at high tide.
2. Except as provided for in paragraph 3, the territorial sea, the contiguous zone, the exclusive economic zone and the continental shelf of an island are determined in accordance with the provisions of this Convention applicable to other land territory.
3. Rocks which cannot sustain human habitation or economic life of their own shall have no exclusive economic zone or continental shelf.




xunzi said:


> Our position is always consistent with international norm and laws. There should be no double standard regarding to any state interest. An analogy to jumping of a cliff is a false statement. That is essentially telling us to watch other claimants building up islands while we stand and watch.


Just because others do brake the law, doesn't mean it is ok for you to brake the law. If that were the case, we'ld all be making money pushing dope and getting away with it.



xunzi said:


> It is never about the resources. This accusation is unacceptable. It is about protecting our sea lane from subject of intimidation on blockage, forming an intelligent network to defend national security, and to provide humanitarian aid to civilian commercial ships. I'm sure you know that too well.


So, your sea lanes are more important than those of South Korea of Japan?
And it is not about resources? Rich Resources in the South China Sea








xunzi said:


> List of your artificial islands: Category:Artificial islands of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


All of which well inside the 12 nmi territorial waters, as measured from mainland. 
I.e. not the kind of thing we are discussion here (artificial islands in the EEZ).

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## dichoi

ahtan_china said:


> Sofar the China KMT/TAIWAN didn't gave up SCS.
> Ok, It will up to your ability if the Viet will controlled SCS. Hope your Viet has enough economical/military ability to face China. Good luck.



Paracel and Spratly is Island groups in sea territory of Vietnam from long time ago . Vietnam is the first Country set up state's official administration on Islands without dispute with China in the past. 

China has stolen our Islands with force recently. We have right to claim it forever. Greedy Chinese can not swallow Islands of Vietnam.


----------



## mike2000 is back

beijingwalker said:


> Your world maybe..



So European major powers France and U.K have a far more favourable view of China than Japanese,Vietnamese and some other Asian countries do?? @Nihonjin1051 , seems western evil propaganda backfired on its own citizens instead? Lol. 
Guess there will be a eurochina union before an Asian one. Lol


----------



## waz

Lol@the EU. The place is falling apart and they are ranting on about something thousands of miles away.


----------



## xunzi

Penguin said:


> Nowhere did I say that was not the case.
> 
> Article 60
> Artificial islands, installations and structures in the exclusive economic zone
> 1. In the exclusive economic zone, the coastal State shall have the exclusive right to construct and to authorize and regulate the construction, operation and use of:
> (a) artificial islands;
> (b) installations and structures for the purposes provided for in article 56 and other economic purposes;
> (c) installations and structures which may interfere with the
> exercise of the rights of the coastal State in the zone.
> 2. The coastal State shall have exclusive jurisdiction over such artificial islands, installations and structures, including jurisdiction with regard to customs, fiscal, health, safety and immigration laws and regulations.
> 3. Due notice must be given of the construction of such artificial islands, installations or structures, and permanent means for giving warning of their presence must be maintained. Any installations or structures which are abandoned or disused shall be removed to ensure safety of navigation, taking into account any generally accepted international standards established in this regard by the competent international organization. Such removal shall also have due regard to fishing, the protection of the marine environment and the rights and duties of other States. Appropriate publicity shall be given to the depth, position and dimensions of any installations or structures not entirely removed.
> 4. The coastal State may, where necessary, establish reasonable safety zones around such artificial islands, installations and structures in which it may take appropriate measures to ensure the safety both of navigation and of
> the artificial islands, installations and structures.
> 5. The breadth of the safety zones shall be determined by the coastal State, taking into account applicable international standards. Such zones shall be designed to ensure that they are reasonably related to the nature and function of the artificial islands, installations or structures, and shall not exceed a distance of 500 metres around them, measured from each point of their outer edge, except as authorized by generally accepted international standards or as recommended by the competent international organization. Due notice shall be given of the extent of safety zones.
> 6. All ships must respect these safety zones and shall comply with generally accepted international standards regarding navigation in the vicinity of artificial islands, installations, structures and safety zones.
> 7. Artificial islands, installations and structures and the safety zones around them may not be established where interference may be caused to the use of recognized sea lanes essential to international navigation.
> 8. Artificial islands, installations and structures do not possess the status of islands. They have no territorial sea of their own, and their presence does not affect the delimitation of the territorial sea, the exclusive economic
> zone or the continental shelf.
> 
> PART VIII
> REGIME OF ISLANDS
> Article 121
> Regime of islands
> 1. An island is a naturally formed area of land, surrounded by water, which is above water at high tide.
> 2. Except as provided for in paragraph 3, the territorial sea, the contiguous zone, the exclusive economic zone and the continental shelf of an island are determined in accordance with the provisions of this Convention applicable to other land territory.
> 3. Rocks which cannot sustain human habitation or economic life of their own shall have no exclusive economic zone or continental shelf.


This only applied to artificial island out of thin air. We build upon existing feature. That feature may be above water during high tide, which entitle to 12nm zone. 




Penguin said:


> Just because others do brake the law, doesn't mean it is ok for you to brake the law. If that were the case, we'ld all be making money pushing dope and getting away with it.


You're wrong. If nobody condemn the Vietnam and Philippines for breaking the law, then why should we concern about breaking the accord? You would be in a high ground position to preach, but since you didn't condemn their action, it shows double standard and that cannot be allow in a fair international environment.



Penguin said:


> So, your sea lanes are more important than those of South Korea of Japan?
> And it is not about resources? Rich Resources in the South China Sea


South Korea and Japan are your allies and do not need to be fear of a blockage in case of conflict. We are different than them, so you can't compare us with them. Our concern is you. Let make that clear, shall we?




Penguin said:


> All of which well inside the 12 nmi territorial waters, as measured from mainland.
> I.e. not the kind of thing we are discussion here (artificial islands in the EEZ).


No. Some of those artificial islands were build hundred of miles away from US mainland. Some were near the coast of Latin America.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## EastSea

* US navy plans more patrols of South China Sea to 'remind' Chinese of rights *
US military’s operational announcement affirms commitment to their right to freely navigate in the region, officials say

.




Navy sailors participate in an exercise on the deck of the Arleigh Burke-class guided missile destroyer USS Lassen (DDG 82) with an MH-60R Seahawk helicopter, in the South China Sea last week. Photograph: US navy/Reuters

The US navy plans to conduct patrols within 12 nautical miles of artificial islands in the South China Sea about twice a quarter to remind China and other countries about US rights under international law, a US defense official said on Monday.

“We’re going to come down to about twice a quarter or a little more than that,” said the official, who was not authorized to speak publicly about navy operational plans.

“That’s the right amount to make it regular but not a constant poke in the eye. It meets the intent to regularly exercise our rights under international law and remind the Chinese and others about our view,” the official said.

On Monday Ben Rhodes, the US deputy national security adviser, said there would be more demonstrations of the US military’s commitment to the right to freely navigate in the region.

“That’s our interest there … It’s to demonstrate that we will uphold the principle of freedom of navigation,” Rhodes told an event hosted by the Defense One media outlet.

Rhodes’s comments came a week after a US guided-missile destroyer sailed close to one of Beijing’s man-made islands in the South China Sea last week.

China’s naval commander last week told his US counterpart that a minor incident could spark war in the South China Sea if the United States did not stop its “provocative acts” in the disputed waterway.

The USS Lassen’s patrol was the most significant US challenge yet to the 12-nautical-mile territorial limit China claims around artificial islands it has built in the Spratly Islands archipelago.

Neither China nor the US will give way in this South China Sea showdown | Jonathan Fenby

China claims most of the South China Sea, through which more than $5tn of world trade transits every year. Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei, the Philippines and Taiwan all have rival claims.

Rhodes said the goal in the dispute was to come to a diplomatic framework to resolve these issues.

Vice-Admiral John Aquilino, US deputy chief of naval operations for operations, plans and strategies, declined to comment about when the next patrols would take place.

“We do operations like that all the time around the world. That will continue for us,” he told Reuters after his remarks at the same conference. “We’ll just keep going.“

The defense secretary, Ash Carter, may visit a US navy ship during his upcoming visit to Asia, but is not expected to be on board during any navy freedom of navigation operations, the US defense official said. 

http://syndication.theguardian.com/...patrols&type=article&internalpagecode=2400073

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

EastSea said:


> * US navy plans more patrols of South China Sea to 'remind' Chinese of rights *
> US military’s operational announcement affirms commitment to their right to freely navigate in the region, officials say
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Navy sailors participate in an exercise on the deck of the Arleigh Burke-class guided missile destroyer USS Lassen (DDG 82) with an MH-60R Seahawk helicopter, in the South China Sea last week. Photograph: US navy/Reuters
> 
> The US navy plans to conduct patrols within 12 nautical miles of artificial islands in the South China Sea about twice a quarter to remind China and other countries about US rights under international law, a US defense official said on Monday.
> 
> “We’re going to come down to about twice a quarter or a little more than that,” said the official, who was not authorized to speak publicly about navy operational plans.
> 
> “That’s the right amount to make it regular but not a constant poke in the eye. It meets the intent to regularly exercise our rights under international law and remind the Chinese and others about our view,” the official said.
> 
> On Monday Ben Rhodes, the US deputy national security adviser, said there would be more demonstrations of the US military’s commitment to the right to freely navigate in the region.
> 
> “That’s our interest there … It’s to demonstrate that we will uphold the principle of freedom of navigation,” Rhodes told an event hosted by the Defense One media outlet.
> 
> Rhodes’s comments came a week after a US guided-missile destroyer sailed close to one of Beijing’s man-made islands in the South China Sea last week.
> 
> China’s naval commander last week told his US counterpart that a minor incident could spark war in the South China Sea if the United States did not stop its “provocative acts” in the disputed waterway.
> 
> The USS Lassen’s patrol was the most significant US challenge yet to the 12-nautical-mile territorial limit China claims around artificial islands it has built in the Spratly Islands archipelago.
> 
> Neither China nor the US will give way in this South China Sea showdown | Jonathan Fenby
> 
> China claims most of the South China Sea, through which more than $5tn of world trade transits every year. Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei, the Philippines and Taiwan all have rival claims.
> 
> Rhodes said the goal in the dispute was to come to a diplomatic framework to resolve these issues.
> 
> Vice-Admiral John Aquilino, US deputy chief of naval operations for operations, plans and strategies, declined to comment about when the next patrols would take place.
> 
> “We do operations like that all the time around the world. That will continue for us,” he told Reuters after his remarks at the same conference. “We’ll just keep going.“
> 
> The defense secretary, Ash Carter, may visit a US navy ship during his upcoming visit to Asia, but is not expected to be on board during any navy freedom of navigation operations, the US defense official said.



Do what ever they want, just don't cry that we're doing on our soil.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Do what ever they want, just don't cry that we're doing on our soil.



let me correct you
"they do sail in the international water" ( if you believe that they violated your territory, you could bring them to the court or attack them )
"China is provocating in the disputed islands.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

BoQ77 said:


> let me correct you
> "they do sail in the international water" ( if you believe that they violated your territory, you could bring them to the court or attack them )
> "China is provocating in the disputed islands.



Wrong buddy, what we do it's our business and you really think that we believe tribunal court run by US? and why we need to attack them, we rather want them to come and witness our great achievement in SCS and let them cast a jealous eyes on what we did there

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Wrong buddy, what we do it's our business and you really think that we believe tribunal court run by US? and why we need to attack them, we rather want them to come and witness our great achievement in SCS and let them cast a jealous eyes on what we did there



I guess you would see some more movements in South Korea, Japan and Taiwan. And they all would say "it's their own business".

No. Paracel islands are disputed islands, if you want to persuade us Taiwan is disputed islands


----------



## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

BoQ77 said:


> I guess you would see some more movements in South Korea, Japan and Taiwan. And they all would say "it's their own business"



We shall see about that

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> We shall see about that



As you know, after several years of embargo, American suddenly consider to fully lift the ban of arm sale to Vietnam this year. 

Deploying THAAD in Vietnam would be more than expected act because our fishermen just caught an wreckage of North Korea rocket.


----------



## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

BoQ77 said:


> As you know, after several years of embargo, American suddenly consider to fully lift the ban of arm sale to Vietnam this year.



And?? US used to sell high tech weapons to South Korea and Japan, Russia sold better equipment to India than to us, practically our neighbors got better weapons than us for decades, and that had not scare us al all. what make think any different with Vietnam????

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## sicsheep

BoQ77 said:


> As you know, after several years of embargo, American suddenly consider to fully lift the ban of arm sale to Vietnam this year.
> 
> Deploying THAAD in Vietnam would be more than expected act because our fishermen just caught an wreckage of North Korea rocket.



hahaha, a guy can't even afford Toyota talking about buying BMW. 

go ahead..!! use these scrap your fisherman found, see how many M16s you can get for it.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

sicsheep said:


> hahaha, a guy can't even afford Toyota talking about buying BMW.
> 
> go ahead..!! use these scrap your fisherman found, see how many M16s you can get for it.



Okay. Navy official said 6 subs still not enough, means we would go for 6 more.


----------



## sicsheep

BoQ77 said:


> Okay. Navy official said 6 subs still not enough, means we would go for 6 more.



you should go for 50 more, bankrupt your country, but then you still have less subs then we do. 

Soon we will have Lada class from Russia and 095 nuclear sub.


----------



## BoQ77

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> And?? US used to sell high tech weapons to South Korea and Japan, Russia sold better equipment to India than to us, practically our neighbors got better weapons than us for decades, and that had not scare us al all. what make think any different with Vietnam????



yeah your people seems to be bravery, so are we !!!


----------



## kublaiyuan

so that south china sea doesnt become another occupied territory like Tibet


----------



## BoQ77

kublaiyuan said:


> so that south china sea doesnt become another occupied territory like Tibet



Welcome China to any international court if they make sure they are real owner of what inside their dashed line in SCS.

Or they shot other by piston ( if they want to resolve the situation by military movement ), US and allies would shoot them by canon

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## sicsheep

BoQ77 said:


> Welcome China to any international court if they make sure they are real owner of what inside their dashed line in SCS.
> 
> Or they shot other by piston ( if they want to resolve the situation by military movement ), US and allies would shoot them by canon



hahahaha, why didn't Ho chi Minh go to international court to get rule South Vietnam? 

We just have to find out if American and Japanese is willing to die for VN or not.


----------



## BoQ77

sicsheep said:


> hahahaha, why didn't Ho chi Minh go to international court to get rule South Vietnam?
> 
> We just have to find out if American and Japanese is willing to die for VN or not.



Entire of SCS is not Vietnam's territory , actually most of it is international water. That's why.

This diplomatic letter by Democratic Vietnam PM in 1958 which is often used by China, actually tell us 1 basis of nowaday UNCLOS regulation.

Summary, "Vietnam recognizes the territorial water of 12nm of China", no more !!!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## sicsheep

BoQ77 said:


> Entire of SCS is not Vietnam's territory , actually most of it is international water. That's why.
> 
> This diplomatic letter by Democratic Vietnam PM in 1958 which is often used by China, actually tell us 1 basis of nowaday UNCLOS regulation.
> 
> Summary, "Vietnam recognizes the territorial water of 12nm of China", no more !!!



entire SCS is almost all international water, all islands within SCS belong to China, and have right to 12nm territorial water from all island and EEZ accordlingly.


----------



## BoQ77

sicsheep said:


> *entire SCS is almost all international water.*



Why you don't print this and bring it to Tiananmen Square ?


----------



## Pangu

*Avoid Confrontaiton in the South China Sea*
*Tom Mockaitis - International security analyst/military historian. Prof. of History, DePaul University, teaches counter- terrorism courses around the world.*

The commander of U.S. forces in the Pacific recently told the Senate Armed Services Committee that China is "militarizing the South China Sea." Coming just after the Pentagon learned that the Peoples Republic has deployed antiaircraft missiles to the disputed Parcel islands, the accusation is but the latest development in a crisis that has been unfolding over the past several years.

Unfortunately, the U.S. has few options to counter Chinese moves in the region. It must not provoke a military confrontation with Beijing. A large buildup of U.S. forces would only encourage Chinese counter measures and could lead to an expensive and futile arms race.

China has long claimed most of the South China Sea as its territorial waters, defying both international law and the claims of other littoral countries. It has clashed with Vietnam over the Parcel and Spratly Islands and had diplomatic rows with the Philippines and Malaysia. The value of the waters as a fishery and the prospect of gas and oil reserves beneath the seabed have made the dispute more important.

That an emerging super-power would assert control over its near abroad should come as no surprise. The U.S. did precisely the same thing in the Caribbean a century ago. After the Panama Canal opened in 1914, Washington viewed the Sea as an American lake. During the interwar period, the Marines intervened in Haiti, the Dominican Republic and Nicaragua.

After WWII, the U.S. supported a coup to oust the President of Guatemala, forced the Soviet Union to remove its missiles from Cuba, and backed the Salvadoran government against Communist insurgents. This history makes it difficult for Washington to be too critical of Beijing's assertiveness in the South China Sea, no matter how objectionable such action may be.

How then should the U.S. respond? The much-vaunted "re balancing" of U.S. forces to Asia has been limited by the conflict in the Middle East and the resurgence of Russia. Deploying more naval and air assets to the region would, in any case, have limited effect. The U.S. will not go to war over the South China Sea, and China knows it. That realization reduces the credibility of any American military moves.

Beijing is developing anti-ship missile with the American Navy in mind. Such a weapon could neutralize U.S. carrier battle groups. Trying to outmatch China in its own backyard will not work. Attempting to do so would merely add to rising defense costs.

The U.S. does, of course, need to reassure its allies that it will protect them against direct aggression. That reassurance requires some bolstering of its forces in the region, but Washington should tread lightly. De-escalation coupled with joint diplomatic efforts by littoral nations with American support might be the wisest course of action.

Avoid Confrontaiton in the South China Sea

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## sicsheep

BoQ77 said:


> Why you don't print this and bring it to Tiananmen Square ?



because then all the vietnamese cant see it.


----------



## sicsheep

"We will fly, sail and operate wherever international law permits, and that includes flying over that airspace" is roughly what we hear over and over again when U.S. defense—and now President Obama—refer to American actions in the South China Sea. The challenge, of course, is that China might not care—and that’s a huge problem—and if they’re smart, they shouldn’t care. Call it the “Keep Calm, and Build on Doctrine.”

By now, at least in my humble opinion, a dangerous pattern has emerged that should have Washington and its allies quite worried when it comes to this important body of water that saw over $5 trillion of sea-borne trade pass through its shipping lanes—$1 trillion of which was U.S. goods. It goes a little something like this: the U.S. Navy conducts a FONOP or flies over newly built islands in the South China Sea in some public way, making sure it has on record that America will not stand for any attempts by China to challenge freedom of navigation in or control of international airspace above the South China Sea. However, as Dean Cheng recently pointed out, such FONOPs don’t “address the larger point that China seeks to establish new precedents, by building entire islands atop reefs and then claiming territorial sea and exclusive economic zones around them.”

Indeed, moving the above one step further, Beijing is taking advantage of a key flaw in U.S. strategy. As Washington defends the time-tested international principle of freedom of the seas and, in many respects, airspace—centuries old U.S. policy since the founding of the republic—the Obama Administration is not pushing back against China’s quest both to become the dominant power and to essentially take ownership of the South China Sea. While fighting for freedom of navigation might look like pushing back against Chinese coercion in the South China Sea to the untrained eye it is clearly not the same thing. Digging a little deeper, as Julian Ky noted earlier in the month, “the avowed legal purpose of these U.S. FONOPs is to win acquiescence for the U.S. (and majority) view of international law that innocent passage of military ships does not require prior permission,” not to directly challenge China’s goal of hegemony in the South China Sea. He goes on, correctly pointing out, “the sub silentio strategic goal of these FONOPs is to isolate China from its regional neighbors”—a worthy goal, but clearly not working if ASEAN states won’t even sign on to China being mentioned in a joint statement when President Obama hosted the group this week in California.

*So, now that we have the backstory of this drama out of the way—and we know Washington is not actively trying to halt Chinese dominance in the South China Sea, just narrowly defend Freedom of Navigation—what, then, does China do when a FONOP occurs? Complain loudly. . . but carry on and build up.*

And it's what is involved in that “carry on” that matters a great deal. Beijing, presses ahead with militarizing its newly built islands, testing aircraft off newly build runways, deploying more and more non-naval maritime assets, putting the finishing touches on new harbors while declaring loudly and proudly in various formats and ways that the South China Sea is Chinese territory—and its actions show it is serious about enforcing such claims. The recent deployment of the HQ-9 air-defense system is proof positive of such actions.

So what is America to do? In this case, what America should do—continue FONOP operations but quickly develop a strategy to ensure China pays a price for its coercive actions in South China—is what America will not and cannot do. Considering the challenge of ISIS, Russian moves in Syria and Ukraine, a Presidential election and now a budding war over the future of the Supreme Court there is clearly no political bandwidth left in the waning days of this administration to take on another foreign policy challenge—music to China’s ears. In fact, if Beijing was smart, the time to reinforce its claims is now, especially before a more assertive administration comes into office. In fact, that might be what we are already seeing in China’s recent behavior.

*My prediction for the next few months: America keeps sailing, China keeps protesting—and Beijing builds on.*

*My prediction for one year from now: a Chinese Air Defense Identification Zone (ADIZ) in the South China Sea.*


_Harry Kazianis (_@grecianformula_) is the former Executive Editor of The National Interest. Kazianis presently serves as Senior Fellow (non-resident) for Defense Policy at the_Center for the National Interest_ as well as Fellow for National Security Affairs at_The Potomac Foundation_. He is the editor and co-author of the Center for the National Interest report_Tackling Asia’s Greatest Challenges_: A U.S.-Japan-Vietnam Trilateral Report. All opinions are his own._

China's Genius Strategy in the South China Sea: Keep Calm, and Build On | The National Interest Blog

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Aepsilons

treetop said:


> have you ever thought of working for UN as peacemaker?



LOL

Thanks?


----------



## BoQ77

sicsheep said:


> because then all the vietnamese cant see it.



I wish the China dash line could be defined as simple as your post "*entire SCS is almost all international water"*
but China still struggle to make such a definition.


----------



## dichoi

.*FEATURED | US and China are they Trapped in Thucydides? by Ipshita Bhattacharya*
IndraStra Global 7/16/2015 11:06:00 AM 







By _Ipshita Bhattacharya_
The Thucydides Trap Theory primarily talks about the fear, threats and suspicions resulting in the Peloponnesian war (431-404 B.C.) between two great empires of Athens and Peloponnesian league led by Sparta. This echo from history has a significant meaning in today’s world order too. Which says that the important components to trigger war are fear, suspicion and threat; this article will therefore critically explore the potential factors of fear, suspicion and threats between United States and China. Obstacles and opportunities plays a very important role in ruining and building relationship between two Nations, where obstacles defines the fear, suspicions, and threats and opportunities defines the confidence building measures. China and USA at present are thriving on conditional relations with lots of unresolved issues at their backyard like cyber security, South China Sea, membership friction over China’s Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank etc, along with their institutional differences. This article will focus mainly on China’s engineering prowess in the South China Sea (SCS) and the fear factor behind her actions. As the old adage goes that the best defense is a good offense pertaining to which China is projecting military power and territorial claims in SCS. Beijing’s aggressive naval policy is a strategic defence mechanism arising out of fear, suspicion and threat from Washington’s involvement in the region. Since, therefore, China is most sincerely propelling the dominating agenda of establishing its military power play in the South China Sea marginalising UNCLOS (United Nations Common Laws of The Sea).
_*China’s Prowess in South China Sea (SCS):*_
US and China countries with extreme ideologies with different forms of political institutions, but they share one thing in common i.e. hectoring around with a strong arms show. This being probably the cause behind the fear, suspicion and feeling threatened by each other which may pull them in to the Thucydides Trap. China with its meteoric economic growth and mutating political interest wants to bridle Asia. The strategic territorial aggression has shown by Beijing in the South China Sea in the recent years distinctly points towards an absolute long term schedule. Apart from the territorial and jurisdictional claim dispute with Southeast Asian Nations (SEA) in the SEA region, China also shares a contentious issue of freedom of navigation with US in the region. On the other hand US want an unhindered access of navigation in the International waters of SCS on the commercial front and also looking forward for its hegemony in the region through its military ties and alliances with the SEA countries. China’s modernisation of its naval power and embarking on jurisdictional claims in the SCS apprehends clearly a defense mechanism of fear, suspicion and threat on her part. China with its growing economic and cultural relations with ASEAN fears and feels threaten by the US presence in the region. The reason behind this fear may be that China wants to play the intimidating role in the region and hence do not want any political interference of US Status and might. China’s extending outposts in the SCS for stationing ships, important airfields; building of artificial island to use them as military bases speaks about its determinant attitude to rule the waters[1]. According to _IHS Jane_China has started building an airstrip on an island which is adequate to hold fighter jets and surveillance aircraft. This navigational aggression on one hand and political diplomacy on the other reveals the fine wedged strategy of China. Last year there were reports on Chinese Su-27 fighter jet intercepting US P-8 Poseidon ASW (Anti-Submarine Warfare) over the Hainan Island (SCS region) performing “Barrel Roll “ a manoeuvre to show its might and deterrence[2], Perhaps as the old byword goes the best defence is offence. This open show of military artistry might perhaps determine the hidden fear of China which she palpates by the presence of US in the region.
The latest candid operation by the Chinese in provoking the security status in the SCS is the fourth test in eighteen months of a hypersonic nuclear delivery vehicle, a hypersonic glide vehicle _“WU-14”_which the US called an “extreme manoeuvre,” amid rising stress between the two powers in the South China Sea. This strike weapon is exceedingly advanced and can travel at ten times the speed of sound making it extremely hard to strike down. However China has claimed it as a scheduled scientific technological test and the tests are not being targeted to any area specific specified goal.
The conflicting claims over chain of islands in the SCS by various South East Asian countries and Washington’s military alliances with these countries raises deep concern for China. There for to overcome her adrenal rush China is aggressively following her serious ambitions for SCS by making big progressive territorial reclamations and military projects, to prepare herself for a vanquish military conflicts in a given situation of war, moreover Beijing also knows that once US is done with her smart diplomacy theory of persuasion will likely to land up into some concrete closure which may be caustic for China. Consequently, China wants to speed up all her unfinished projects before the International community acts, moreover, in this way she is trying to establish her rhetoric historic claim of over 90% sovereignty over SCS regardless of overlapping claims by the various claimants. On the other part for US it won’t be easy to challenge an economically and militarily rising China. The strengthening of its navy and developing fifth generation fighter aircrafts vigorously which includes stealth fighter programme prototype J-20 by CAC (Chengdu Aircraft Corporation) China is definitely a point of concern for USA. But emphatically, the inaction of USA, giving it a broad brush attention and accommodating China on this issue will not only give China a boost to carry on with her ambitions in SCS but also make Beijing more explicit and direct. As China is all set to rise geopolitically by intimidating the small claimants in the SCS will surely not tolerate US in the waters, as Beijing realizes US as a potential threat, because of her presence and pivot in Asia since long time. No doubt new dubieties of China and US in SCS have brought tremendous uncertainties into their strategic stability theory. However, the chances of Sino-US war are definitely distant but looking into China’s military preparation explains her planning for a specific destination, as fear and threat in belly always grow insecurity which leads to expressed actions.

FEATURED | US and China are they Trapped in Thucydides? by Ipshita Bhattacharya


----------



## TaiShang

China will take care of freedom of navigation like a newborn panda cub. Hope the US can join us in our efforts instead of attempting to plant IEDs in the region in the hope of making certain gains.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## BoQ77

sicsheep said:


> hahaha, a guy can't even afford Toyota talking about buying BMW.
> 
> go ahead..!! use these scrap your fisherman found, see how many M16s you can get for it.



could you learn the fact that this small trader earn more than at least 400 million of Chinese people in mainland?







more, our soldiers in military service don't receive monthly salary, but keep training and self feeding himself





even in Spratly island


----------



## Penguin

xunzi said:


> This only applied to artificial island out of thin air. We build upon existing feature. That feature may be above water during high tide, which entitle to 12nm zone.



Fiery Cross Reef is not an island, nor a fringe reef, but a group of three reefs. In 2014, China commenced reclamation activity in the area, and it has been converted into an artificial islandof about 230ha
Fiery Cross Reef - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

UNCLOS:

Article 5 Normal baseline
Except where otherwise provided in this Convention, the normal baseline for measuring the breadth of the territorial sea is the low-water line along the coast as marked on large-scale charts officially recognized by the coastal State.

Article 6 Reefs
In the case of_ islands situated on atolls_ or of _islands having fringing reefs_, the baseline for measuring the breadth of the territorial sea is the seaward low-water line of the reef, as shown by the appropriate symbol on charts officially recognized by the coastal State.

Article 13
Low-tide elevations
1. A low-tide elevation is a naturally formed area of land which is surrounded by and above water at low tide but submerged at high tide. Where a low-tide elevation is situated wholly or partly at a distance not exceeding the breadth of the territorial sea from the mainland or an island, the low-water line on that elevation may be used as the baseline for measuring the breadth of the territorial sea.
2. Where a low-tide elevation is wholly situated at a distance exceeding the breadth of the territorial sea from the mainland or an island, it has no territorial sea of its own.

Article 121
Regime of islands
1. An island is a naturally formed area of land, surrounded by water, which is above water at high tide.
2. Except as provided for in paragraph 3, the territorial sea, the contiguous zone, the exclusive economic zone and the continental shelf of an island are determined in accordance with the provisions of this Convention
applicable to other land territory.
3. Rocks which cannot sustain human habitation or economic life of their own shall have no exclusive economic zone or continental shelf.




> You're wrong. If nobody condemn the Vietnam and Philippines for breaking the law, then why should we concern about breaking the accord? You would be in a high ground position to preach, but since you didn't condemn their action, it shows double standard and that cannot be allow in a fair international environment.


Who says I don't or would hold other nations to the same standard? Point out wherre I've suggested or stated UNCLOS doesn't also apply to other nations. Meanwhile, China is the only contry carrying out substantional militarization at high tempo and also happens to be the topic of discussion in this thread.



> South Korea and Japan are your allies and do not need to be fear of a blockage in case of conflict. We are different than them, so you can't compare us with them. Our concern is you. Let make that clear, shall we?


I am from The Netherlands. We don't have a defence relation with South Korea or Japan. I'm quite sure China has no concerns about the Netherlands. Let's make that clear, shall we?



> No. Some of those artificial islands were build hundred of miles away from US mainland. Some were near the coast of Latin America.


Well, be specific then which you are talking about. AFAIK There are 37 artifical islands listed here. None of these are anywhere near non-US territory. Let alone near the coast of Latin America. All of these are inside the existing US territorial waters 12nmi zone. They are little structures used for housing (compared Dubai) or industry (compare Port of Rotterdam - Maasvlakte).
Category:Artificial islands of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TaiShang

All eight out of nine features mentioned in PH's Submissions fall inside China's Taiping Island's EEZ and CS. Hence, any activity on and around them are legal.

Scarborough is outside the 200NM but it still generates 12NM TS. Hence, China can do reclamation activity there, too.

Of course, China does not claim individual EEZs or CS for the islands. China has EEZ and CS for four islands groups as a whole.

What is island and what generates what entitlement is to be decided by China, not by some court. If the US can do it with Baker Island, we can to it, too. And it only takes greater national power to do so, not blessing from a kangaroo court.


----------



## dichoi

.
Hanoi says Beijing’s actions threaten peace, stability in East Vietnam Sea

TUOI TRE NEWS

UPDATED : 02/26/2016 14:36 GMT + 7
*Vietnam has expressed concern that peace, security, and freedom and safety of navigation and aviation in the East Vietnam Sea are being compromised by China’s recent activities in the region.*

Regarding Beijing’s deployment of fighter jets to Phu Lam (Woody) Island, the largest island in Vietnam’s Hoang Sa (Paracel) archipelago, and its installment of a radar system in the Southeast Asian country’s Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelago, Ministry of Foreign Affairs Spokesperson Le Hai Binh reiterated Vietnam’s indisputable sovereignty over the two archipelagoes in a press meeting on Thursday.

Despite the opposition and concern from Vietnam and the international community, China continues to infringe on Vietnamese territory, Binh said, adding that these moves promote militarization, threaten peace and stability, and endanger the freedom of navigation and aviation in the region.

“We resolutely protest China’s violation and demand the country have practical actions to contribute to the preservation of regional and global peace, stability, in accordance with international law including the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea [UNCLOS] and the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the [East Vietnam Sea] [DOC],” the spokesperson said.

He added that the matter would be addressed at the ASEAN Foreign Ministers’ Meeting scheduled for February 26 and 27 in Laos.

Answering questions from German news agency DPA, Binh said that the status quo is being destroyed, posing more concern for the possibility of militarization in the East Vietnam Sea.

China revealed its plan to turn features in the East Vietnam Sea into military outposts with strategic benefits by introducing surface-to-air missiles, radar, and fighter jets into the area, Denny Roy, senior fellow at the Hawaii-based East-West Center, told _Tuoi Tre_ (Youth) newspaper.

Roy denied that China’s deployment of military weaponry in the sea area is similar to the U.S. introduction of such weapons to the Hawaii archipelago prior to Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi’s visit to the U.S., saying that there are certain differences in the situation in the East Vietnam Sea and that in Hawaii.

Unlike Hawaii, the East Vietnam Sea is being claimed by several nations, the senior fellow continued.

The U.S. does not state its possession of the sea area between its continent and Hawaii while China has claimed authority over most of the sea, Roy elaborated.

He warned that Beijing, following recent activities, might possibly limit the fishing operation and oil exploitation in the marine territory of other countries.

China’s introduction of weaponry to the East Vietnam Sea could increase the risk of airline accidents for the flights crossing the waterway, according to the academic.

The U.S. and Taiwan have confirmed that China has been sending surface-to-air missiles to Phu Lam.

Recent satellite imagery has also showed that China is building a helicopter base on Quang Hoa (Duncan) Island, also belonging to Hoang Sa, that could be used for anti-submarine warfare missions. 

On February 19, Vietnam condemned China for carrying out these activities that violate its sovereignty and endanger regional peace and stability.

*Like us on Facebook or follow us on Twitter to get the latest news about Vietnam!*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Penguin

sicsheep said:


> entire SCS is almost all international water, all islands within SCS belong to China, and have right to 12nm territorial water from all island and EEZ accordlingly.


Article 3 Breadth of the territorial sea
Every State has the right to establish the breadth of its territorial sea up to a limit not exceeding 12 nautical miles, measured from baselines determined in accordance with this Convention.

Article 5 Normal baseline
Except where otherwise provided in this Convention, the normal baseline for measuring the breadth of the territorial sea is the low-water line along the coast as marked on large-scale charts officially recognized by the coastal State.

Article 6 Reefs
In the case of islands situated on atolls or of islands having fringing reefs, the baseline for measuring the breadth of the territorial sea is the seaward low-water line of the reef, as shown by the appropriate symbol on charts officially recognized by the coastal State.

Article 13 Low-tide elevations
1. A low-tide elevation is a naturally formed area of land which is surrounded by and above water at low tide but submerged at high tide. Where a low-tide elevation is situated wholly or partly at a distance not exceeding the breadth of the territorial sea from the mainland or an island, the low-water line on that elevation may be used as the baseline for measuring the breadth of the territorial sea.
2. Where a low-tide elevation is wholly situated at a distance exceeding the breadth of the territorial sea from the mainland or an island, it has no territorial sea of its own.

Article 55
Specific legal regime of the exclusive economic zone The exclusive economic zone is an area beyond and adjacent to the territorial sea, subject to the specific legal regime established in this Part, under which the rights and jurisdiction of the coastal State and the rights and freedoms of other States are governed by the relevant provisions of this Convention.

Article 56
Rights, jurisdiction and duties of the coastal State in the exclusive economic zone
1. In the exclusive economic zone, the coastal State has:
(a) sovereign rights for the purpose of exploring and exploiting, conserving and managing the natural resources, whether living or non-living, of the waters superjacent to the seabed and of the seabed and its subsoil, and with regard to other activities for the economic exploitation and exploration of the zone, such as the production of energy from the water, currents and winds;
(b) jurisdiction as provided for in the relevant provisions of this Convention with regard to:
(i) the establishment and use of artificial islands, installations and structures;
(ii) marine scientific research;
(iii) the protection and preservation of the marine
environment;
(c) other rights and duties provided for in this Convention.
2. In exercising its rights and performing its duties under this Convention in the exclusive economic zone, the coastal State shall have due regard to the rights and duties of other States and shall act in a manner compatible with the provisions of this Convention.
3. The rights set out in this article with respect to the seabed and subsoil shall be exercised in accordance with Part VI.

Article 57 Breadth of the exclusive economic zone
The exclusive economic zone shall not extend beyond 200 nautical miles from the baselines from which the breadth of the territorial sea is measured.

Article 59 Basis for the resolution of conflicts 
regarding the attribution of rights and jurisdiction in the exclusive economic zone In cases where this Convention does not attribute rights or jurisdiction to the coastal State or to other States within the exclusive economic zone, and a conflict arises between the interests of the coastal State and any other State or States, the conflict should be resolved on the basis of equity and in the light of all the relevant circumstances, taking into account the respective importance of the interests involved to the parties as well as to the international community as a whole.

Article 60
Artificial islands, installations and structures
in the exclusive economic zone
1. In the exclusive economic zone, the coastal State shall have the exclusive right to construct and to authorize and regulate the construction, operation and use of:
(a) artificial islands;
(b) installations and structures for the purposes provided for in article 56 and other economic purposes;
(c) installations and structures which may interfere with the exercise of the rights of the coastal State in the zone.
2. The coastal State shall have exclusive jurisdiction over such artificial islands, installations and structures, including jurisdiction with regard to customs, fiscal, health, safety and immigration laws and regulations.
3. Due notice must be given of the construction of such artificial
islands, installations or structures, and permanent means for giving warning of their presence must be maintained. Any installations or structures which are abandoned or disused shall be removed to ensure safety of navigation, taking into account any generally accepted international standards established in this regard by the competent international organization. Such removal shall also have due regard to fishing, the protection of the marine environment and the rights and duties of other States. Appropriate publicity shall be given to the depth, position and dimensions of any installations or structures not entirely removed.
4. The coastal State may, where necessary, establish reasonable safety zones around such artificial islands, installations and structures in which it may take appropriate measures to ensure the safety both of navigation and of the artificial islands, installations and structures.
5. The breadth of the safety zones shall be determined by the coastal State, taking into account applicable international standards. Such zones shall be designed to ensure that they are reasonably related to the nature and function of the artificial islands, installations or structures, and shall not exceed a distance of 500 metres around them, measured from each point of their outer edge, except as authorized by generally accepted international standards or as recommended by the competent international organization. Due notice shall be given of the extent of safety zones.
6. All ships must respect these safety zones and shall comply with generally accepted international standards regarding navigation in the vicinity of artificial islands, installations, structures and safety zones.
7. Artificial islands, installations and structures and the safety zones around them may not be established where interference may be caused to the use of recognized sea lanes essential to international navigation.
8. Artificial islands, installations and structures do not possess the status of islands. They have no territorial sea of their own, and their presence does not affect the delimitation of the territorial sea, the exclusive economic zone or the continental shelf.

PART VIII
REGIME OF ISLANDS
Article 121
Regime of islands
1. An island is a naturally formed area of land, surrounded by water, which is above water at high tide.
2. Except as provided for in paragraph 3, the territorial sea, the contiguous zone, the exclusive economic zone and the continental shelf of an island are determined in accordance with the provisions of this Convention applicable to other land territory.
3. Rocks which cannot sustain human habitation or economic life of their own shall have no exclusive economic zone or continental shelf.


----------



## sicsheep

Penguin said:


> Article 3 Breadth of the territorial sea
> Every State has the right to establish the breadth of its territorial sea up to a limit not exceeding 12 nautical miles, measured from baselines determined in accordance with this Convention.
> 
> Article 5 Normal baseline
> Except where otherwise provided in this Convention, the normal baseline for measuring the breadth of the territorial sea is the low-water line along the coast as marked on large-scale charts officially recognized by the coastal State.
> 
> Article 6 Reefs
> In the case of islands situated on atolls or of islands having fringing reefs, the baseline for measuring the breadth of the territorial sea is the seaward low-water line of the reef, as shown by the appropriate symbol on charts officially recognized by the coastal State.
> 
> Article 13 Low-tide elevations
> 1. A low-tide elevation is a naturally formed area of land which is surrounded by and above water at low tide but submerged at high tide. Where a low-tide elevation is situated wholly or partly at a distance not exceeding the breadth of the territorial sea from the mainland or an island, the low-water line on that elevation may be used as the baseline for measuring the breadth of the territorial sea.
> 2. Where a low-tide elevation is wholly situated at a distance exceeding the breadth of the territorial sea from the mainland or an island, it has no territorial sea of its own.
> 
> Article 55
> Specific legal regime of the exclusive economic zone The exclusive economic zone is an area beyond and adjacent to the territorial sea, subject to the specific legal regime established in this Part, under which the rights and jurisdiction of the coastal State and the rights and freedoms of other States are governed by the relevant provisions of this Convention.
> 
> Article 56
> Rights, jurisdiction and duties of the coastal State in the exclusive economic zone
> 1. In the exclusive economic zone, the coastal State has:
> (a) sovereign rights for the purpose of exploring and exploiting, conserving and managing the natural resources, whether living or non-living, of the waters superjacent to the seabed and of the seabed and its subsoil, and with regard to other activities for the economic exploitation and exploration of the zone, such as the production of energy from the water, currents and winds;
> (b) jurisdiction as provided for in the relevant provisions of this Convention with regard to:
> (i) the establishment and use of artificial islands, installations and structures;
> (ii) marine scientific research;
> (iii) the protection and preservation of the marine
> environment;
> (c) other rights and duties provided for in this Convention.
> 2. In exercising its rights and performing its duties under this Convention in the exclusive economic zone, the coastal State shall have due regard to the rights and duties of other States and shall act in a manner compatible with the provisions of this Convention.
> 3. The rights set out in this article with respect to the seabed and subsoil shall be exercised in accordance with Part VI.
> 
> Article 57 Breadth of the exclusive economic zone
> The exclusive economic zone shall not extend beyond 200 nautical miles from the baselines from which the breadth of the territorial sea is measured.
> 
> Article 59 Basis for the resolution of conflicts
> regarding the attribution of rights and jurisdiction in the exclusive economic zone In cases where this Convention does not attribute rights or jurisdiction to the coastal State or to other States within the exclusive economic zone, and a conflict arises between the interests of the coastal State and any other State or States, the conflict should be resolved on the basis of equity and in the light of all the relevant circumstances, taking into account the respective importance of the interests involved to the parties as well as to the international community as a whole.
> 
> Article 60
> Artificial islands, installations and structures
> in the exclusive economic zone
> 1. In the exclusive economic zone, the coastal State shall have the exclusive right to construct and to authorize and regulate the construction, operation and use of:
> (a) artificial islands;
> (b) installations and structures for the purposes provided for in article 56 and other economic purposes;
> (c) installations and structures which may interfere with the exercise of the rights of the coastal State in the zone.
> 2. The coastal State shall have exclusive jurisdiction over such artificial islands, installations and structures, including jurisdiction with regard to customs, fiscal, health, safety and immigration laws and regulations.
> 3. Due notice must be given of the construction of such artificial
> islands, installations or structures, and permanent means for giving warning of their presence must be maintained. Any installations or structures which are abandoned or disused shall be removed to ensure safety of navigation, taking into account any generally accepted international standards established in this regard by the competent international organization. Such removal shall also have due regard to fishing, the protection of the marine environment and the rights and duties of other States. Appropriate publicity shall be given to the depth, position and dimensions of any installations or structures not entirely removed.
> 4. The coastal State may, where necessary, establish reasonable safety zones around such artificial islands, installations and structures in which it may take appropriate measures to ensure the safety both of navigation and of the artificial islands, installations and structures.
> 5. The breadth of the safety zones shall be determined by the coastal State, taking into account applicable international standards. Such zones shall be designed to ensure that they are reasonably related to the nature and function of the artificial islands, installations or structures, and shall not exceed a distance of 500 metres around them, measured from each point of their outer edge, except as authorized by generally accepted international standards or as recommended by the competent international organization. Due notice shall be given of the extent of safety zones.
> 6. All ships must respect these safety zones and shall comply with generally accepted international standards regarding navigation in the vicinity of artificial islands, installations, structures and safety zones.
> 7. Artificial islands, installations and structures and the safety zones around them may not be established where interference may be caused to the use of recognized sea lanes essential to international navigation.
> 8. Artificial islands, installations and structures do not possess the status of islands. They have no territorial sea of their own, and their presence does not affect the delimitation of the territorial sea, the exclusive economic zone or the continental shelf.
> 
> PART VIII
> REGIME OF ISLANDS
> Article 121
> Regime of islands
> 1. An island is a naturally formed area of land, surrounded by water, which is above water at high tide.
> 2. Except as provided for in paragraph 3, the territorial sea, the contiguous zone, the exclusive economic zone and the continental shelf of an island are determined in accordance with the provisions of this Convention applicable to other land territory.
> 3. Rocks which cannot sustain human habitation or economic life of their own shall have no exclusive economic zone or continental shelf.



Exactly, you should tell that to Vietnam and Philippines, 

PRC controls the largest of all NATURAL formed island in Parcel, Yong Xing Island
*Woody Island*, also known as *Yongxing Island* (simplified Chinese: 永兴岛; traditional Chinese:永興島; pinyin: _Yǒngxīng Dǎo_; literally: "Eternal Prosperity Island") and *Phu Lam Island*(Vietnamese: _Đảo Phú Lâm_), is the largest of the Paracel Islands in the South China Sea.

ROC controls the largest of all NATURAL formed island in Spratly, TaiPing Island 
*Taiping Island*, also known as *Itu Aba Island* and by various other names, is the largest of the naturally occurring[1]Spratly Islands in the South China Sea

Woody Island (South China Sea) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Taiping Island - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Penguin

The treaty applies to all signatory, naturally.

Fiery cross reef .... ? This artificial island is now larger than any of the naturally formed islands in the Spratleys. I'm sure I can find a few more.

Woody Island > sovereignty disputed.

See several other thread which recently discussed this (not going over that again)

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## dichoi

sicsheep said:


> Exactly, you should tell that to Vietnam and Philippines,
> 
> PRC controls the largest of all NATURAL formed island in Parcel, Yong Xing Island
> *Woody Island*, also known as *Yongxing Island* (simplified Chinese: 永兴岛; traditional Chinese:永興島; pinyin: _Yǒngxīng Dǎo_; literally: "Eternal Prosperity Island") and *Phu Lam Island*(Vietnamese: _Đảo Phú Lâm_), is the largest of the Paracel Islands in the South China Sea.
> 
> ROC controls the largest of all NATURAL formed island in Spratly, TaiPing Island
> *Taiping Island*, also known as *Itu Aba Island* and by various other names, is the largest of the naturally occurring[1]Spratly Islands in the South China Sea
> 
> Woody Island (South China Sea) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> Taiping Island - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Paracel Islands belong to Vietnam from long time ago in the past. Occupation with force of China is illegal.







_The map of Quang Nam Prefecture in the Toan tap Thien Nam tu chi lo do thu. The complete set of road maps by Do Ba in the Chinh Hoa Dynasty (1680-1705), in the reign of Le. The notes on the map recorded Bai Cat Vang (Yellow Sand Beach) in Chu Nom in the native language, off the Quang Ngai Prefecture's shore_

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## sicsheep

Penguin said:


> The treaty applies to all signatory, naturally.
> 
> Fiery cross reef .... ? This artificial island is now larger than any of the naturally formed islands in the Spratleys. I'm sure I can find a few more.
> 
> Woody Island > sovereignty disputed.
> 
> See several other thread which recently discussed this (not going over that again)



Fiery Cross reef is a reef, no matter how large it is, There is no international law regarding controlling reef size as I recall, Japan, Vietnam have all done reclamation work. 

why do we need to draw EEZ or territorial water from it when we can do it from our the natural formed Islands? 

if we dispute the sovereignty the Vietnam, as we can show it was once controlled by China, does that mean they have to stop building anywhere in Vietnam? besides as I said before Vietnam is also doing reclamation just on a much lesser scale. 

why don't you tell the British to withdraw garrison on the Falklands, or Russian to withdraw from Kuril ....

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## xunzi

Penguin said:


> Fiery Cross Reef is not an island, nor a fringe reef, but a group of three reefs. In 2014, China commenced reclamation activity in the area, and it has been converted into an artificial islandof about 230ha
> Fiery Cross Reef - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> UNCLOS:
> 
> Article 5 Normal baseline
> Except where otherwise provided in this Convention, the normal baseline for measuring the breadth of the territorial sea is the low-water line along the coast as marked on large-scale charts officially recognized by the coastal State.
> 
> Article 6 Reefs
> In the case of_ islands situated on atolls_ or of _islands having fringing reefs_, the baseline for measuring the breadth of the territorial sea is the seaward low-water line of the reef, as shown by the appropriate symbol on charts officially recognized by the coastal State.
> 
> Article 13
> Low-tide elevations
> 1. A low-tide elevation is a naturally formed area of land which is surrounded by and above water at low tide but submerged at high tide. Where a low-tide elevation is situated wholly or partly at a distance not exceeding the breadth of the territorial sea from the mainland or an island, the low-water line on that elevation may be used as the baseline for measuring the breadth of the territorial sea.
> 2. Where a low-tide elevation is wholly situated at a distance exceeding the breadth of the territorial sea from the mainland or an island, it has no territorial sea of its own.
> 
> Article 121
> Regime of islands
> 1. An island is a naturally formed area of land, surrounded by water, which is above water at high tide.
> 2. Except as provided for in paragraph 3, the territorial sea, the contiguous zone, the exclusive economic zone and the continental shelf of an island are determined in accordance with the provisions of this Convention
> applicable to other land territory.
> 3. Rocks which cannot sustain human habitation or economic life of their own shall have no exclusive economic zone or continental shelf.


Keep reading UNCLOS and show everybody where it said a country can't build on low-tide elevation feature.



Penguin said:


> Who says I don't or would hold other nations to the same standard? Point out wherre I've suggested or stated UNCLOS doesn't also apply to other nations. Meanwhile, China is the only contry carrying out substantional militarization at high tempo and also happens to be the topic of discussion in this thread.


I'm not interest in your opinion on SCS. I'm speaking from official position of your govt which have a double standard on each claimants. So your personal objection to our building up artifical island is we do too fast? Does that mean if we build slowly like other claimants, then it is okay?



Penguin said:


> I am from The Netherlands. We don't have a defence relation with South Korea or Japan. I'm quite sure China has no concerns about the Netherlands. Let's make that clear, shall we?


You have used the American flag before, so I take your position of the USA. It is that simple. I do not care about Netherlands, so you got that right.



Penguin said:


> Well, be specific then which you are talking about. AFAIK There are 37 artifical islands listed here. None of these are anywhere near non-US territory. Let alone near the coast of Latin America. All of these are inside the existing US territorial waters 12nmi zone. They are little structures used for housing (compared Dubai) or industry (compare Port of Rotterdam - Maasvlakte).
> Category:Artificial islands of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


It doesn't matter. Artificial island is not new. International law allows artificial islands to be built if you owned those feature. We own it and we can build whatever we want on it. It's simple, really!. LOL

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## dichoi

.
*Vietnam Says China’s Flights to South China Sea a Threat to Air Safety*
*Vietnam authorities claim 46 instances of Chinese planes flying unannounced through Vietnam’s area of responsibility in first week of January*
By 
VU TRONG KHANH
Jan. 9, 2016 5:06 a.m. ET

HANOI—Vietnam’s civil aviation regulators have accused China of jeopardizing regional air safety by flying aircraft to a disputed reef in the South China Sea.

The Civil Aviation Authority of Vietnam said unannounced flights “threaten the safety of all flights in the region”, according to reports published in state-run media Saturday. It said it had filed a complaint with the United Nations’ International Civil Aviation Organization, or ICAO, and sent a protest letter to China’s government.

“ICAO is responsible for supervising all civil aviation activities in the world, and we expect that it will issue warnings to China after it finds out about its violations,” Vietnam’s civil aviation director Lai Xuan Thanhsubsequently said in a telephone interview.

China’s foreign ministry didn’t immediately respond to a request for comment.

Beijing on Wednesday said it had landed planes on a newly-built airstrip on an island at Fiery Cross Reef, part of the Spratly islands chain claimed by Vietnam and China, which also claims nearly the entire South China Sea as its territorial waters.

Vietnam, though, has been mandated by ICAO to supervise international air traffic through a large portion of the South China Sea known as the Ho Chi Minh City Flight Information Region, specifically tracking flights and providing alerts when needed. Aviation authorities were reported in state media as saying they had recorded 46 instances of Chinese planes flying without warning through Vietnam’s area of responsibility in the first week of January, including the test flights to Fiery Cross Reef.

Mr. Thanh said Chinese planes flew onto the flight paths of several international commercial flights, though none had to change their routes as a result.

China’s flights to Fiery Cross Reef mark a further escalation in the race among various claimants to the South China Sea to develop their presence on atolls and reefs in the area. Vietnam, the Philippines and Taiwan also occupy some geographical features there. In some instances, these include small garrisons and limited military facilities.

In recent years, China has moved to expand and upgrade its own outposts in the area, however, upsetting the status quo.

Vietnam has complained that the recent test flights to Fiery Cross Reef violate its territorial rights, while this week Philippine Foreign Secretary Albert del Rosario said China is on track to set up an air defense identification zone in the South China Sea that could limit free navigation of flights in the region. Such a move would also challenge Vietnam’s supervisory role in parts of the South China Sea.

The U.S. has also criticized Beijing’s flights to Fiery Cross Reef, with a Defense Department spokeswoman recently saying the test flights “are inconsistent with the region’s commitments to exercise restraint from actions that could complicate or escalate disputes.”

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Penguin

xunzi said:


> Keep reading UNCLOS and show everybody where it said a country can't build on low-tide elevation feature.


article 60 > artificial islands yield you no territorial zone or more.




> I'm not interest in your opinion on SCS. I'm speaking from official position of your govt which have a double standard on each claimants. So your personal objection to our building up artifical island is we do too fast? Does that mean if we build slowly like other claimants, then it is okay?


You haven't even shown you know the official position of MY government. I challenge you to document it (bet you cant)

[/quote]You have used the American flag before, so I take your position of the USA. It is that simple. I do not care about Netherlands, so you got that right.[/quote]
Oh really? Like, when/where. I'm probably the longest on this forum with no flags. More BS.




> It doesn't matter. Artificial island is not new. International law allows artificial islands to be built if you owned those feature. We own it and we can build whatever we want on it. It's simple, really!. LOL


Clearly, you are still not getting it. It is not about whether you can/are allowed to build artificial islands. It is about whether they are recognized as having a territorial zone, eez etc, and count towards establishing where Chinas EEZ is. And they DON'T.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cnleio

Islands in SCS

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Rechoice

Vietnamese old mother prayed for her son and his comrades who were killed by Chinese in South Johnson Reef in 1988, after 27 year.






There is Paracel and Spratly, sea territory of Vietnam motherland for ever. Chinese aggressor can't swalow our Islands.

64 đôi đũa, 64 cái bát trong bữa giỗ Gạc Ma

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Oldman1

sicsheep said:


> Japan turned out to be just fine, maybe history will repeat, except this time, the other side has nukes too.



Indeed! And the other side has nukes as well.


----------



## JSCh

*China's southernmost city to launch civilian flights*
By Liang Jun (People's Daily Online) 08:55, March 08, 2016
​ 
_




The runway at the Yongxing airport._​ 

Yongxing Airport in Sansha, China's southernmost island city administered by Hainan province, is expected to open to passenger planes within this year, and the city will gradually open more to tourists, said Xiao Jie, the mayor of the city and NPC deputy on March 5.

Tourism is a key sector in Sansha, and civil aircraft are currently conducting test flights at Yongxing Airport, Xiao Jie told reporters at the ongoing Two Sessions meetings on March 5. The airport is expected to launch civilian flights before the end of this year. 

Because the city’s tourism infrastructure and other tourism-related facilities lag somewhat behind, the full development of tourism in Sansha will need some time.

The city is also exploring an inter-island cruise, and considering the possibility of increasing waterways and cruise ships, according to Xiao.

Officially established in June 2012, Hainan's Sansha is China's youngest city that administers to vast island groups and their surrounding waters in the South China Sea.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## adnan12345

the u.s is encouraging a peaceful; resolution of competing maritime claims in the south china sea a goal that is definitely not helped by the militarization of facilities in that region , tuesday in testimony before the senate foreign relations committee. with countries trading barbs, expectations for the talks are low.

china argues its expansion in the south china sea is the natural behavior of a regional power while the us, the major military presence in asia since the end world war 2 , says china is using its economic and military clout to dominate smaller neighbors.

washington should be well aware that china will not compromise on territorial integrity and washington should not underestimate china's resolve in this respect, the official xinhua news agency said in a commentary ahead of wang's visit.


chinese foreign minister wang yi meets us secretary of state john kerry for talks tuesday as each country accuses the other of escalating military tensions in the western pacific. the sit down in washington will be the first since china parked missiles on woody in the disputed south sea , and since the us announced it would hold talks about deploying a missile defense system in south korea as a deterrent to north korea.

the us has said china under president xi jinping is militarizing the south china sea by building artificial islands and placing artillery , radar and other weapons there , while china says the us is doing the same with its freedom of navigation voyages , where naval vessels pass within territorial zones china asserts around reclaimed reefs. china claims more than 8- percent of the waters 
contesting territory with countries including vietnam and the philippines.


----------



## dichoi

*Vietnam to build Paracel monument on Ly Son Island
*
_VietNamNet Bridge – *The Vietnam General Confederation of Labor is working with Quang Ngai Province over a project to build a monument on Ly Son Island off the central province’s coast to pay tribute to Vietnamese people who had sacrificed their lives to protect Hoang Sa (Paracel) archipelago*._

.




_Ly Son Island – Photo: SGGP_

Ngo Minh Dong, deputy office manager of the Vietnam General Confederation of Labor, said the confederation is raising money from trade unions and workers across the country to finance the project.

The goal of the project is “to pay respect and express gratitude to the Vietnamese people who were killed while trying to protect the country’s sovereignty over Hoang Sa; contribute to fostering national pride, solidarity and patriotism among the Vietnamese; and create a place for Vietnamese at home and abroad to commemorate and learn about the history of fighting to protect the country,” he said.

The confederation and Quang Ngai authorities have also launched a Hoang Sa monument design contest to choose the best design in terms of historical, educational and aesthetic values.

The project is planned to cover around 1.5-2 hectares.

Organizations and individuals at home and abroad can join the contest and should register their interest at the Vietnam General Confederation of Labor, 82 Tran Hung Dao Street, Hanoi, or at its representative office in HCMC at 85 Cach Mang Thang Tam Street.

The organizer will receive entries from August 1 to October 31. After the best design is chosen, the confederation would invite contestants to visit Ly Son Island.

Currently, the confederation is working on a project to build Gac Ma monument on 2.5 hectares in Cam Ranh City, Khanh Hoa Province, also on the central coast. The project costs around VND100 billion (US$4,583), which is sourced from trade unions and workers nationwide, as well as local and foreign organizations and individuals.

The design for Gac Ma monument was also chosen in a contest held by the confederation. This monument commemorates 64 unarmed Vietnamese troops who were killed by the Chinese while they were protecting Gac Ma (Johnson South Reef) in Vietnam’s Truong Sa (Spratly) islands.

_SGT_

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## rott

dichoi said:


> .
> *Vietnam Says China’s Flights to South China Sea a Threat to Air Safety*
> *Vietnam authorities claim 46 instances of Chinese planes flying unannounced through Vietnam’s area of responsibility in first week of January*
> By
> VU TRONG KHANH
> Jan. 9, 2016 5:06 a.m. ET
> 
> HANOI—Vietnam’s civil aviation regulators have accused China of jeopardizing regional air safety by flying aircraft to a disputed reef in the South China Sea.
> 
> The Civil Aviation Authority of Vietnam said unannounced flights “threaten the safety of all flights in the region”, according to reports published in state-run media Saturday. It said it had filed a complaint with the United Nations’ International Civil Aviation Organization, or ICAO, and sent a protest letter to China’s government.
> 
> “ICAO is responsible for supervising all civil aviation activities in the world, and we expect that it will issue warnings to China after it finds out about its violations,” Vietnam’s civil aviation director Lai Xuan Thanhsubsequently said in a telephone interview.
> 
> China’s foreign ministry didn’t immediately respond to a request for comment.
> 
> Beijing on Wednesday said it had landed planes on a newly-built airstrip on an island at Fiery Cross Reef, part of the Spratly islands chain claimed by Vietnam and China, which also claims nearly the entire South China Sea as its territorial waters.
> 
> Vietnam, though, has been mandated by ICAO to supervise international air traffic through a large portion of the South China Sea known as the Ho Chi Minh City Flight Information Region, specifically tracking flights and providing alerts when needed. Aviation authorities were reported in state media as saying they had recorded 46 instances of Chinese planes flying without warning through Vietnam’s area of responsibility in the first week of January, including the test flights to Fiery Cross Reef.
> 
> Mr. Thanh said Chinese planes flew onto the flight paths of several international commercial flights, though none had to change their routes as a result.
> 
> China’s flights to Fiery Cross Reef mark a further escalation in the race among various claimants to the South China Sea to develop their presence on atolls and reefs in the area. Vietnam, the Philippines and Taiwan also occupy some geographical features there. In some instances, these include small garrisons and limited military facilities.
> 
> In recent years, China has moved to expand and upgrade its own outposts in the area, however, upsetting the status quo.
> 
> Vietnam has complained that the recent test flights to Fiery Cross Reef violate its territorial rights, while this week Philippine Foreign Secretary Albert del Rosario said China is on track to set up an air defense identification zone in the South China Sea that could limit free navigation of flights in the region. Such a move would also challenge Vietnam’s supervisory role in parts of the South China Sea.
> 
> The U.S. has also criticized Beijing’s flights to Fiery Cross Reef, with a Defense Department spokeswoman recently saying the test flights “are inconsistent with the region’s commitments to exercise restraint from actions that could complicate or escalate disputes.”


Use burnol.



skyknight said:


> List as many countries as you can&#65292;if it can make you feel better&#12290;
> I suggest you copy country names from here


----------



## dichoi

*‘Chinese armed vessels have harassed Vietnamese ships’*

*Vietnam protesting China’s continued use of force against Vietnamese boats and vessels*
November 29, 2015




Vietnam’s Foreign Ministry Spokesman Le Hai Binh

HA NOi (VNS) — Viet Nam strongly objects to the use of or threat to use force against its boats and vessels, Foreign Ministry Spokesman Le Hai Binh said yesterday.

The spokesman made the statement in response to the press’s question about Viet Nam’s reaction to reports that some Chinese coast guard and military surrounded and threatened to use force against the ship Hai Dang 05 of Viet Nam.

Domestic relevant agencies are verifying the location where the incident took place and several related issues in order to take appropriate diplomatic measures, he added.

The spokesman underlined Viet Nam’s consistent stance of resolutely protesting against all actions that use or threaten to use force against Vietnamese boats and vessels.

“These actions infringe international law, run counter to the spirit and wording of the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the East Sea (DOC), seriously menace peace and stability in the region, and are completely unacceptable and unjustifiable,” Binh said. — VNS

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## MacanJawa

who will fire bullet first if conflict broke?


----------



## Solomon2

dichoi said:


> The spokesman made the statement in response to the press’s question about Viet Nam’s reaction to reports that some Chinese coast guard and military surrounded and threatened to use force against the ship Hai Dang 05 of Viet Nam.


I cannot be the first to make the observation that China is treating the SCS as a giant go board, with ships and installations as playing pieces.


----------



## dichoi

*New Vietnam PM praises G7 statement, discusses East Sea issue with U.K. foreign secretary*
By Toan Dao April 12, 2016 | 04:14 pm GMT+7







*Vietnam’s newly elected Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc has spoken highly of the G7 statement referring to the East Sea and asked the United Kingdom to speak more on the issue.*
Phuc made the statement while meeting Philip Hammond, Foreign Secretary of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, in Hanoi on Tuesday, according to a statement on the Vietnamese government website.

Foreign ministers of the G7, a group that excludes China, on Monday issued a statement on maritime territorial disputes, saying they opposed "any intimidating coercive or provocative unilateral actions that could alter the status quo and increase tensions”. The statement has been met with anger from China.

“Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc praises the statement referring to the East Sea issue from G7 foreign ministers meeting in Hiroshima, which serves the common goal of ensuring freedom of navigation and keeping [parties] from implementing actions that may cause tension in the region and go against international law,” the Vietnamese statement said.

Phuc asked the U.K. and E.U. to speak strongly, asking claimants in the East Sea to respect international law, including the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea; use peaceful means to settle disputes; refrain from using force and threatening to use force; stop any activity, especially the construction of artificial islands and militarization in the East Sea, that aims to alter the status quo in the East Sea; fully conform with the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the East Sea; and actively take part in negotiations to build a Code of Conduct in the East Sea.

Hammond, while re-affirming the statement on the East Sea issued by G7 foreign ministers, expressed support for ASEAN's efforts to form a Code of Conduct in the East Sea to ensure freedom of navigation in the region. He also said he hoped relevant parties would use peaceful means to settle disputes and conform to international law, according to the Vietnamese government.

New Vietnam PM praises G7 statement, discusses East Sea issue with U.K. foreign secretary - VnExpress International

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Doomfloyd

I doubt that the U.S would go to war with China in order to protect it's "Allies"
Japan, South Korea, Phillipines, Vietnam and Malaysia should all Stick together to counter the Chinese Threat.
The U.S will never fight the Chinese, They will likely try to solve a war in a diplomatic way to Avoid Chinese Embargo because they need the Chinese... The Chinese Also needs them that is why. They both Dependant of each other's goods, resources(etc). So relying on the United States for defence is not good. 
That is why i think that the All the other Countries mentioned should all stick together and probably sign an agreement of some sort to protect each other.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## HongWu002

http://thediplomat.com/2016/04/russia-india-china-address-south-china-sea-in-trilateral-statement/

Soon our comrade Nguyen Phu Truong will join us. Pinoy will be sacrificed as pawn. USD is facing total collapse after so much humiliation.

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Jai Bharat

India's official position has always been to support a peaceful resolution to the conflict through regional cooperation.

This should not be a surprise to anyone. Only US and Philippines wants to internationalize the issue and send a military force.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## xunzi

The issue in SCS is not about freedom of navigation. It is about freedom to spy on others in the EEZ. Now we have a problem with this and India even agree with us. In fact, we have test the US during RIMPAC on that principle and as you can see, they don't like when others spy on them in the EEZ, so called international water. But they do it to others. That is the major issue at hand in SCS.

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## dy1022

Today's China in SCS, Tomorrow's India in Indian ocean!


everyone should say fcuk off to US' outdated hegemonism.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## LacViet

HongWu002 said:


> http://thediplomat.com/2016/04/russia-india-china-address-south-china-sea-in-trilateral-statement/
> 
> Soon our comrade Nguyen Phu Truong will join us. Pinoy will be sacrificed as pawn. USD is facing total collapse after so much humiliation.





Listen to me, my friend.!!!
http://data:image/jpeg;base64,/9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wCEAAkGBxMTEhUTEhMVFRUVGCAXGBYYGRgYGBgYGBoXGBUXGBoYHSggGB0lGxgYITEhJikrLi4uFx8zODMsNygtLisBCgoKDg0OGxAQGy0lICUwKy0tLS0tLSstLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tKy0tLS0tLS0tLf/AABEIALcBEwMBIgACEQEDEQH/xAAcAAABBQEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAFAQIDBAYABwj/xABHEAACAQIEAggDBQUGBAUFAAABAhEAAwQSITEFQQYTIjJRYXGRgaGxB0JSwdEUI3Lh8DNigpKT8WOistIVRFNUwiRVc4PD/8QAGQEAAwEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAQIDAAQF/8QAKhEAAgIBAwQCAQMFAAAAAAAAAAECEQMSITEEEyJBMlFhQnHwBRQzYoH/2gAMAwEAAhEDEQA/AN1h9zUq96osLzqS33q8tcIuPfvCn3dxTJ7VOfvCiYkunUU+5yqO5uKdcOoogJG3Fcx1FNbcU5txRAKe8KUd6m/epV71Ew9DqaS2d6S2dTXW9jWMPB0rm7tNXu1zt2axhz8qdzrJdJLBuXFYHtIDC5rihl3aerImI0k86G/+D3BDNmG2jM0aa7/tXMb1CXUJOiihZv1OppFOhrzrGYLqlAuXMmxEs0tBJ2/adRy22qPDKlxsqXELHTKSwkzOgOIknl6UFntXRtB6Qe7SXDoKw/8A4E8FSQDz3kAkH/3HlHoTSLwphdUuigI4K5Q2Ykwdf3jLlg+9KupTN2zdPuK771RW7kxNS866k7JiKdTTE2NPXc1Hb51jCKOyaT7v9eNLbPZNd900AjW7tI3dpT3f68aae7QMK3dpjd2n/dph7tAw37tNtd005e6abZ2rGIrHOofvfGprG59KjYdr40voI4iup0V1OKdhBvTrPepMNtS4felXoYcvfp571RqwDEnzpyXFLwGEgxuK2pGokfvCnv3hTSO1SkdqmAPPepfvV3OuHeogF+9Sr3jSLvSpuaKMdb511vY0lrnSp3TWRh33ajv92n/dpl/u1nwYEYrvNppHi2+R402PPf4UL6R4v9mYsFU3rpAQxOVQFXNHiToP5UVxSqWIJ1ykjU/gf4e9AkcXcfcuNqLRyoOUiVB+BDn1NccManld8Iq5VHYjwXQm7dHW4m6ULawO0/8AiY6D0ExUPEeh6gfu7xP8YUg/Fdq1fFeLdWEXKGzSYzZdoy6xrJNZh+NKbwXus2jKDIk6gzsSNvjXdGTfBJx2sZwXiDBjhMUJzDLbc6lSe6M3NSRp4HT01GLVlbkSInQnQBJiNtuelZLpDaDW5ntJqPGDv+R+FaO1ihdS1cYE51QmJ7xCztymd9K4+qxJNSXspjlewasHu1YntVVs7LVk94V0x4EYo3NNt86cN6bb3NEAy3saRe6aW3saRO6aARPu0n3aVe6a5R2TWMIvdpo7ppQwy6n0oZieP4a0GFy/bUjcZgT7DWfKk1INBC2Oyabh+dAsT0usJoq3LsjNKL2QDtLNAB8qGDpi7KRZsTcJEDMLoiDqRZzMDMaRS6lsHSzWWh2qZd71Y5MZxN3ByBNe7lVA3l+9uK/sOVT4K7dW4RcZWZSoLDcl1VyDryBAFI8noOk1ppKaHrquTH2D2adY51GhhKfhzoaH0MVMUZBHjp7kChHSbDqpN1cwJfKYJ17III1gbeHOi1w6j+Jf+oUO45qB4l2PtpUceOOXqoY5cOwZZvHhlJcgWxxO6vdu3F9e1P8Aly/Wr1npDiB9623ro3trVMCDqKqYV1Z2UFQZiCSJInUaR4aV6uf+mYcdOLaOLD1mSd2kbbg3FLt14a1lESWkRp85+FFbTyZoT0bTLYH8Nw/838qJ4Ya15kE45JQbunR3XqgpfaJEPaNLa3NNtbmltc6ugDrexpV7ppts6GnDu1kBi/dpl/uinHuim3joKz4MgTiyczARGVjuQZyXIgbHnqaw2NvtaxF4LP8AaN/1GPrW4xrqHie0UbSTMZbkmIg8tZrMdPMAVu9db2fRvJwNj6iPY1HppJZnF+x5rxsiucRN9FRXUOGCgttmIOnyqK7gBhbmd7gJKwSdyx3jwAj2oHwrFrbuZ3TNHyPjB0JqbieKW5JGYryVt18hXc8bUq9ElK0NxGKZmMzBn2re8GtMuHsx/wCmszm2YFvu/np41huCYR8RcS1y5/3UHePtXouPZARBhYQLEj8QXb4aVx9dJKoFMX2EbWy1YY9oVXt7LU794U64AKD2q5NzXfepE7xpgCW+dMt7GnW9zTLexoIIH4pj70izhwvWXJClthCljpEEkLAkjUig2THGRdxCqSCpAIGWdDpbR4YeOYRR20wGJsiBqxEncdljp67VPj8OOsJ8z9Sa58ce5PS2PJ6VZlLfAkBBa8zHkQrsR6G5cIH+TnT14RYXZHYzM5ssneT1SpPxo89qNYqNbDHUgKvidPUmu1dNjXybIvJN8IzmOxNuyRFi0GOxyKze7hm+dV7HF71xgpcx4AmPaY+VT9KcKg/eB8zLCnKZGv8AKs9axbKc6xOsCAfAa/1yo9mCdxQNUnyzYdHiBiQp1bLm5fjRZ056mu4npe0DCVQkzKmAFACxodDz1oB0LxbHGKWJJysNfKH/ACrQceIF8AMJCQV1mFuPB8NJPnrXD1arMtvXovi+IcU6V1MtbD0patTEost3aWz3TTXPZoBjOmmBsyjXwWEg5QzAHwlRE/Gsk29jBZe8v8Q+QJ/Kh+NEqp5Sxn+IyBScL43h8Qy9TdRyJYqD2gMrDVTruanObKFVScw1KjNHPUD4fOubHk7XWRk/SNlhrwtIFFOf+9XL1hUthSAWaGb8h57fKm4GywvxcRlA7s/eOgJ+e3nU2IOdySIn6DQV7veWbIt9lv8A9PL7TxQf2wrw0RZX/wDG3zb+dX8PzqlhxCeiIPc1dw3OvFxPVlnL/ZnqpVjivwiSzuaS1saSyd660dDXQgDk7ppDcAU+W8An5CqnEMWLdosSQJ1I/wBj/XOsLxPpoRItvmUjcSrT8BrHMgCsvwJKVHoX7UpUGY1jXy3pcS4yzIjx5V45jukTlSozANqYLkEiRPb9TruIG/Oe10rvwEYkARooKMDqZMaHYaiDvR0yF7h6FjsUAxlgFyHUtGpW5HZ5771WxvEbTG4oZblu6RKQ87LJmIBnX6V5xxfixuuSI10EuSVPMgkwdZoTZ4g8OVCkiNQQD4TA0YH61F9NvqsZ53wj0HH9F1Pas3FIP3XIDDylZB+VQWejDj+1e3bXxJLHTeFG9ZTCdILoyy4A9NTGozCIO457cop+N6TX2MNkJ2kSDoZ0y7eMgD51dPOlViaofR6TglsWkNq09sZh+8dyc5mdIiAPf48573EbY7KOp7CiQSq9kPmiPL8q8kxvGmaCY/w5RudiN/SdaXCcXIJEjfxOnqDrUJdK5bt7jrO1wj3CzeBVTIgk/XbWn4niCK4UntaaSJM+AmvKcHx17NsZr7AaiDJjkBBBEkaifCheI6QtcdZduz4E9nUQRGgjy8KsoPgV5D3FXEjzpV7xrzDo50uyNF0FyJJbM06AyWDc4jfwrbcK6QW7znKwAA130MTzWIA5zW4YykmGLe5ptrnSWHBJggjypLW5rDgm9dVb1kkT+8UAyRBJjlvvEedBOn9x1xCFGZZXkSOc/nRjGqvWWpn+0WNtGzCN/wAqH9PSBetEpmJBj4BPeo9P/n/n0NP4AW1xG/BAdyYBmeXh70P4jjb7a3GaNh4QPKj/AA/DXIkWTlbcgAGN9JBiqvEuB4q8+ltyo2kqse7fOvS8Fy0c1Nme68gROjCCZn10FVXME+HtWstdBsS24VR5k/kDVqz9nt2O1dT4KW+pFI82KPsbRJmb6Kn/AOptt/EPdHith0itN1xYCV7QJ8IJYe+f6UzC9EEsMtx8UgymdcqKZBGxJ8+dJ0gu23cOjo+SZKsDGdECk8vut7jxrzOrnGc1KJ0YouKphXDnsr6V1RYN+wvpXVdCAL7UOJPYwJNslS7rbLDcKZLR6gR8aw32e8OsXesuX0DhYgtqoJ3EczXqHSXAdfYKQC05lnbMu0+R2+NeZ9HMdaS6w6vKHYhldVkOOydtNCDVoS8WkNjitVs0nEbGGFyxewfV276PAhSqsuzhxpIAM/CKN2sXj41t4ZwP4l+oNDeGYgm+FS3CTIIQQPEhs3hPKtnZTsmufJjjN+SsedxexnrPGcVrOCGnO3dH0IFT2ukhPfwmJHplf6saN4a2INLhrYg1P+3x+thdbKGA4zbunIiX1JI79sqAFM7gQKNYbY1Fh1GsVLY2NUxY1DgEpWOs7Gktd0gU1D2TVDGY7qlB84+JgAes/WrQVtIRljHYSbbKboQ/iy5o8TqRXjPSno6+HvaEsp7SMNz5kmIM6n5V6pb4k1wAugAmQBBOkjfb61S4jgv2s5IIjQNlJM8wQYgedO6T8Rnhem2ePLnVCepkbZzmkd3NqNNJUfEeNUxeY6AEAajU6HnEeWles3Ps/uwQL2h5dW0ax/e8h7VUT7MWBk3Zj/hsN/8AFVmq4OZRPOCGicuUnQ6zOpinvbuwJXaNojTx0r0a59m1w7XT/pn9anXoDeC5et5R/ZtqPPtUF+QuJ5Ml/LEgmPExB9RuNt6I4Dm0tKjSdd9Tl08AvPWtuPsvuSf3oM/8Jv8Auqwv2cXACBd5QP3bfrQdm0o84vWiWyqM2skiZbynyqBL7IeyYP3hrBjxOk+Pwr0+x9nV1T/aD16tv1qJ/sxuEk9aNf8Aht/3U3o2k81QCCYkjSDOk+m8VNhOGPckrEDfn4D4annXpl37NnbXrYMQT1R1gfxeM00dDThIe5cLAmAAhU5oJBBk7RMeVLdbsZQbdIwWG4ZfntQN4zkgx6KDG2xrUdEnKNlMNczEgnYE6iT3ssjXTnT8dZtKRkZ3iT2tI8vOhXBcWRirOUGTcChd5DMBHsaDipx2GeNwe57Dw68xJzxPkZHqKs2j2j/XOqlrRyNj4HeprLdo1BKhgJx/ELbi4xPYYMIEyQZA3EetUr/2i25PV2lJHNmEkeYB0+daRrIYkMAR5+tU7XD0DGFHsPGpdpN2x9Wxnbn2j3j/AGeHSefZdtZ5QPCq1zptj3EKpmfupBHiBnA/oVrbODUMdBzrlwwzbU3bibUYlOJcSeSpupHNzpqI0GZvOqfGExiKGuX+skbSQdOWszuf5UcxOLxAmLSMOsZZlhKz2WAnwihXSDOQJ3O6zMe1FRinui2jxIMPwq/eRLguhlddGOeQBoB3hEbR5URtdEIhmuMfIAf/ACkii/RnCZMJZU7jN83Y/nRt17PtWdbpELfsp2LMKB4V1TCupLNRlOP9O7Fvs2gbzDTTsoD/ABEa/AH1qDostriYvviyLb2SGDKYC22HZGu4BVp8zpE152XzDwI1HmK1n2WcRyY0pp+9tMon8Qhh8g1enDBCKZDW7JhxS1h7LXcGzu4vhDcdCLZtlLnZUMSVJIBM5Ty2mi/DftGUdjEWGU8yhn3VoI9zWL4rizOItnUXL+f/ABKXWfiGPsKD4jEMZZiWbxJknlVJdPD2he5Juz3+xxKz1S3TcRUuCVZmCgyJHejXyqWy4IkGRyI2NeD4XGOVUFhlXQZiTCkkmByEzXov2Z8RZ7d225EqQygagBhrHx5frXBlw6FZZSs2tnY1LZuwDQjiHGEslVYElwxEf3co/wDl8qis8etkRrrXKpJFVCT4DF3G20Ql3VB4sQo9zWO6VcSsX1t27OKtG71igIrglszAKAQYBmOdeZcT4pcu37lxtCXOhMwAYCjyAgfCqhuSZ2NejjwVTbIOZ6viOKXEP7xSfgFjxBGkGrfCVa4zv1kgW2eAWBldlOVxpqeVVcV0kN/hNu+bK3r6P1V5zPZCCTcbLBOYG36Fz4VkX49fwd+5+znq0eGNogOpDoDlkiYEwCCCQAedDsUzol1FxNhw7hWOurnW+6KToGLHTw3mpLnB8cP/ADTf81EOgXS1cUhtFMly2ASApYMpMZgRqNdI8xqa0ty4PBv9N6bQkQswR4Zjv/cv86hbh+N54m5HkTW+Zx+Fv9K5UGIuiO459LV39KGlGswqcMxp/wDMXfc/rXJwvGmYxNz3P61tBc0lUceRS78wEP1pFvH8J+Fu8D7m2a1Gsw/7Bjduvu/5j71MnCsbp/8AUv7t+tbG3fEx1dwf/ruESDJO0mpw4nZv9K7+lajWZfD8BxzaftJ+OaqnHeG37FsnFXWuIxyiCYVtwd9NiAeVajpHx/8AZLPWBZYsFUMjqCTJMzGwBrzXjPSe/iARcaVmcoGVfLRd/jR7VrYMZ1JEWIurljrDc8GO4+POu4XZVGTEvmKI0BlkkMUaBA1JABJjyqzwbo91qW7128tm3cZlMgkhVMM87ATpJ5kVrPtF4SmGweHSwsIlyTzLFlPaY8zp9KEML9lMmVNbDuF9IcMzZuvEf3gw+taLBYpHYlGVh4qQfpXiNx4MkROvhp4+dW+j/HzYxCXNSFkFQYzSCIJg6TB+FZ9MktmRU37PbLfeNco7RoDgulNi4M65oM6EQR66x8+dXMLxBb2aAQAcpB81B5eTCuS0nRXS6swnGunN437iYbRUbKsLLMQYaSwIAn5US6M9Nw/WftjJaNsSXkBTrGWObfwz6eOI6UcKODxBtq3YIzoT2mymSFMj8QI9BPOs/fbOIOg8q644oyiTcqPQL3Grb3rj2ry9UWJGaQfOFLaakx2dqo3eIl3HV7DUk7GNTuNonWNKzXR/o22KN0Jcym2mcAqWzGQAgg6E/lXYvhGLsW2csMk9W2Rz99e6VIBIKyDp60HgVlF1Dqj1Tg3TPCXwttSbLbBLkAeACsDlPpM+VaYnsfCvn231JAk3VaIOiss84HZIHxo3wnpBiLIC4e8WXSbbKzmJE5UAYD4RQngXKJqbPWmu611AU6T4eBnuKGjUSRrz0Oo9DtXVydqRamBOLYS07PdTMhRSxVWbLKtCzmnvb6RFZHo5fZMXauAGBcGsGIfstr6MaPYC9ZRsQesc9aAASLYO5JPZuGd/AVt+j/TDC4fCWcNNwm3bCG4E5gRmAE8+VdkMihtdkHBv0eU8cPbueV1vkxoTi2+o+cV6B9oGKs4l+ttNJmTNp0c9lFCmFhgCrNLH78ctfP8AH4ZlnfIpgGDHlr6fSux5YySaJ6Wh7vABjN5beles/Zng1XB9YAc11mJJ3gdkD00PvXk2F7S/SvV/smxA6i8LxzHrQFz3CpChF0AblJO1c3UQclsNBknTBv32H/huf/zoUuIjnFGunDIb+HyACEubNn5p7VlcWDyrzZQq0zuxvxVGW4vaCYh8uzHN77/OaiNwEaiPTen9IHOdfQ/X+vehP7Qec16WCV402ceVVNmw4L0hFnDX8NlzJfKsTMFSvlBkGF8NqhNpsXds27ZBuEC0JMAwWKknkAhA9EoJw3B3r+bqbVy5kEtlUtlBmJjxg+1WuD8WfC3luhJdMwCtKwSpUnUSCATVthbdUekdBOiGNweOS7dtp1ZR7bMtxDEwwMSGIzKBtzr1GRyryTg32nKwy4gFH/EO55Sd1+OlbDA8ZYS0yNCQSIg8zr2dNmnKdBpXO5tPdF1iTVxZqqaRWQudPF5Wl/10/Sqz/aBG9lfhfX/tqhA2xpM3iKwb/aF4WB/rL/206707ZCA2GidQRdQgjxGmooBo3gUU4VhbX2gpzst8Lls/nS4j7RUVCwsktHZGe2ZblMEmPGAaNABH2s8XDXbVhWP7uS4jTM+TJrzIWf8AMKxBqjxnib3LhuXJLM2YmdyTJgflVlLmhnlVVtsA9SwYH7LgkgjLZS7I5s5LGfgdP4qNfaJh8/DrsfdyvpHJgT8idBWYXEkJZA1CWbS6ajS1b0n1Jrdcee3cwl61tmtMomBupg+VVmqjEJ8+Yp2YiSTpEkzAEQNeVUFuAMRI9T84HOrl5tvT9KHAw8kA7jXXf1qMnSsyVhbB4nKQymG/ETEfDc+mlbbod0mQubd3stdfssAchOVVCk8j2RrsSffzb9jJ7SjszBGnltPKjn7KxKW1yy7Ko8ZYgDy3NScY5FY1uOxJ034scRfZhItp2E8wN2J8zPsKyobU0V49cAvXkUABbrARGyswHd0mBQbOA4nQU8FpVCt2eifZcSgxV38KoB6/vDH0qr05xRFq3bmQzZ/8oIPuW+VR9DMwUFmyWXZ3YkqFYpkVASdfxae1XuI8RwZxNlrgW/btq4a3BbMWH7uAIntAc/elletUS/UeeNcgz4VPZvZCHS5kYc5Kn3A1rf4grfUph+CWlDCM7WzbInmpJBHqJqnhOh2NnRLdkfiEHT0AlviRTWVIn43etwpS2dAZA0OYBgdfWuolc6JWwYfE4nNzgIB8BB+tdUdK+yvckYnLcj+1NSWLV5pCEk76KJgbnala54U/DYx0bMpKyCsqddfKuRSb9F2lRUNu5OryefZX9KIXeEYl7RNmzdvJm7fVpmCbhR2ROup+FR3LsjctBnMdD8Ocev8AvOel2JwqqmGusgcS+UDvAn8Q86eDfcVCT+Aa4d0YtrhCCxOLCF2QMOyAJy5Y1gROvMx4VnLl8RruPPWnHpZjrpHW4q8F8S206TAigeK1ZpM6nXx866JwlLlklNLhG26K22tk3mtO1sjRokHlInQ8qL8WcFcwOhEg1kH4pcuIbg0jswNNNoHwNNbiLC11ZaZOY+Ws6eprneBt/uXWZKJW4lcDNI8Ioe1omrYQHU010DbMRXdGKjFRRyNtu2eh/Zphzhbbm4v9qR5MAJAEHcSSfKaxXS2ybWIuAgx1hYeYYk6eWtVla6vaF5yeRzNPqDO9Q4nGveLG6+cx3o108TzNZrYMOaE4Pgr168tuyhdm28AJgsSdAB41rON8IxOFUWLzAgqSpR2KlTAuJqAY7sqRGvOif2Y49EstrbUhobswxOylmmbhALQogCddTUXTLHG9eGultSumssxBPxAAn+KpOb1UU0JR1WYvqNfSl6110zMI5Tp4jTn8atQZ0FQ4qZOnh4U5IscO6P3rwzAKiHTrLhyIT4Dm3+EGvRuHdE1TDGxc/fqdSWGUKTzt6yseMz9KxPR/jzWFKm2p8GmG1I0JGoTTurlnnNF+KdKbj2zbtXMixBYRmJjlGijyHIDU1Gam3SOrFLFFW+ShxTDYew3V2i75QA2cgjMN9FADesfSap4m4SsiIG4HhVXrMxzTv/XKm278c48/pXRHZHK92M4Th3a/buBTCXUbYnZ1M+Qol0vtLaxeJRD2TcJWDI7YD6EeGb5UrYi1dQoso2UK0aKYIKsqnunkSNDNVuGYBVOZmLZWBGkaggwfGtHVe5nVHrfD+AQLZZmkBQwUkJyEZfDlrWx4j1QQhmUADnrHw3rxW7xy/cuZ1v3Ac+YBCAuaZAjwnkTRbE/aLjAxDXcKFP3VRs4HLus8+w+FXnK63AYTjQC3XVdg7ZdCvZns6HUaRvQl96OcQxC3HNy4Llx21kDq1PLYlm8KpYrEtbEraRPA5Sx/zPP0qUjI1HBOGW3tA3SFWCRqVkzvIigeMgFgbyaHRh2mIGxygb+1WMM1lmzXc7oVUDO0mROd8o0jYAa0I6T3bZuKLWWAuuUACSZjTwrmi6dHRNeN7CX2taEi5cPiYRfYa/OohjCjDqlt2ydAy6sJ0PaaTzp/RfANfxVq0qC4WbukgKQO0cxPKAZHMTXrXEui+JxNs28Siuu6hbtsZDsMssQsco03ERT9xQ2Jxhq3swnF+BBbVp+suO7uquG0ABBzMNNYIHvQMYghgqhQASshVmBz7tbTpBw5MFYGGJ7WjiWzk5swlmHZ3BGlZK1IuMMmcgmABPPcjw/lUnkuTKLHpW5SbGvtp7L+lRNjbn9Gr37Gq63WCn8K9pvloPnXHFBf7K2F/vHtP/L4RR45B+xfw2KuBQDhgx/FB18+9S1AmHDAEs5JEkz4/CurnebFfsooZAba45Ol1A397Zvca1z2Rc1tYgg/guaezLp8qhwPRvFXrYuWrJZDIDZkA0MHvMOdUjgrijORAy59x3c/Vz/m0rsqNnPv9kuKwl1P7QMB+KZU+jDT4UvEhBtj/hg+81JgOJ3E2Yx4HY/CimOsZrYvXbIVCci3EgCfAgH5EelZrzQb8QGWkRU2DwweEUO1wnQATIjbTWdDVtODMxXI6EPquaVMehHzmKJ8O4etjGWWzl7amWfLEHK0rAJkzppMzTzf0IjsJw57dm4LiMjL2wrAgkeInzWKD4VWdzlGZjv4DzPgK2XHsdbu3QbbaBArLEGZc6cjoRz50KS+qDKgCgbAa/Enn60kW+QshwuDRdXOY/8AJ8J1b6U++6MIIEeg+RHOq1/ETP6z/tULsRr47TRvcBDe7JI8DFQ2rvaIpz7GeetVie18KoAJ8Oxhwt0XVGa2SOtt7ZlB1WdwNSd94mRRzGYm09/EC0QUdhdtkaStxVZhHkxOnKDWYwwz3EQkAMwWTsASATW7xnAMGVm1dFq4NVKxE+YXlpyrnzZYwastjg5oz+AwL3ry2rYl30AkAaAsTJ8ACfhWvP2bMmGvXr94furLXcttCVJUFgM7RMwdl+OonKcFx2IwuI66F6xCSpyjKcyspI0g6E6+9dxbpDiL7Fr1644IYZSxyiQQIUdkb8hVIO90JJVsD8PckCE5SJAj3pwvH/0x8Dp8qqWRoNYjzn5U9zzDE+rEfQ0jQbJ0WW1ULpsNQap4smQRJn+tPPenYW8c0a6CnrtVYrYRsscO4olps5t5gRrZI7IIkHtTMHeCCaXFYxrsPOQCIVdgSCJA5aDbb3qrgELXZVoYag+dSYxSrEGN9htty96ymm3ELi6sivPOrMW01kk/KpcNjOyBAGg205VVGpjx096N8L6Pq8asf68qlm6iOL5D48TnwVjiYEgan+jS2scw5/DejeP6KHJ+5MsN1J39CazWN4ddtR1ltlnYnY+U7TQx5oZN0aeKUOS/auoxBYLK6jTTxggaEeRqpieGrcclXyk8iNPgQapI9TpifjGvKqUJb4IOrey3ZYyNc6FhEyNGERz1qw7X4l791PDNdefiC2n1p1riOYr2gCInMnM7QwMiBpqI0qPimMu3O0oItgwMoG/M6CdSJp6QBFuEHK1xrlzbUnlJgknUfrUb8XuEFQxA8NqrcLUm7zIAM6E6HQk+Uke9JbtZg50BRc5nmAVUgf3u0D5wee878qGrxsX9vy8h86X9vZtkJ9D/ACqpaw1y4SLaO5G4VS0esCiGF4HjPu2Lo9QV+sUsoQu2FSkTWMQ2Udph5eFLVvD8CxIUTZuTry8zSVytRs6FJ0afo1fa3w1e0QIdtPN2NZDFLNjTWMOvzxAJPpRjAdJ7dvCJZm3ISI6ss0mdztOtBL+JPVuFFwr1C25yEKApUknwEKNfEmulcnOwTY/KtVxt44dh1/Fdc/5SwrLYZdzy2nzOsfI0b4iblwWrMDKoYpLeOrGI7Oo+NGXzCvgUuEWTduW7YkzcAj+6zANHh/RrR8YXqsb1NsQigHJy0TNqTrBO/MzpqazPBkY3UCEBieyTMSATy1oyDcbFdXdgk98KTDQhI1OsbaetPJ7iJEnELxusC5zuoymMsGNvUeBnnQ61ZukkEN8T4md/eiWLIF99lmAZ2mJ2qXDAkjtDXSSNJ8J8am5T9VQ8Yx9le1hQNW1Phy/nVLHvJra2OCWyNWk8yAAP1HvTOL9HrYsXCqy4UsDmbdddiY5VDG2522Uk1ppIwnI1UY61bGxPIDWqt5CCJ+8Aw9DtXdZzkmHHbX1H1Fae0+36ihPRy6LeKs3XUlLbh25aDXc+daXiGJfF3C+BwjIn4gspOxIhYnyH51zZ8KyPcriyOAL4tcOVTmgAnnMTl2j0oVcsNAIOYHyPkRp5zRXgeuJXPabEETKZQ50B1CnQQ0byPz0vRq9bVr5OCu3QXhZQP1YBYZCCOydtvAU2NLHDShZtylbMRatQVJQSD5wR5irWLVXaQsaeHuOfvXpTXrHPhr/6KfpUfX4f/wC2XP8AQt1u4CjytLJUkkEaVwYazWr6cX0K2+qwrWBLBi1oJmJylRK76BqwzYg6yKrCVoDRc4cpzFoMcjUuOOo+J9/9q3/AMVhLeHtW7uCdnVQHc27RBbdiMxkifGsPx++HxN1lXKpc5VgCFkwIGg0qcF5tjSfikDk7woxYuEbGrHRXhtq6t5rpcEQLRUx2tS2bUaRl96ILwlC+XNc9wf8AqU1LPj1spinpQuE45dAylyfCdfrSYvGm6Cl3toTMHkfFTuDUuI6PsFlCWjWGVdR5FQNaFK7bEAE66hxoJ1EmCK5+xk/Sy/ejVMGYu0qSu4X7zAZtddSPWKu8M4RbvYe7eDNmtq0qAI0UssneD+RqriHLm4Co7VssPVRoZ+EVHwORav76rGhIHdadjrvXWtSW/JyypvYNdE+Hi9h7gl1k5Tk5iBoZBB3PvQHjnDLmEuQC2Q6o+0jmDGxHhU/BOKCyrDNcBJkBM2ungNK7jfFnvJkbPCnMM51BEjaPAkb00W7FaBuFxz5xqJPZJjWDuP8AfwqribnLl4bD28aXD99fUfWo8Vv8TTv5GXxPQeHjqLFlVIWUVj/eZgGYnx3+lFjjtj4j1/rWgWCJbDWs2jIgUjyAhZ+AFSYe4YI00P1/mPnXFKNvcrHgODH+QrqDC7XUvbQ1lLBBxZRQk9kcgOQ5mqnSF3Www2z5UiVJ01I0OlPtXDlAzHQcgv6UL47ckKJYnXc+ldKinIk26BOEGjDzXT/Nr/XjWpv2kVevNztKhCpAiTtOs7mNqzNtYI+fvWixdnPZgNqwBj2NNL5mXxA/Rq+lu+puMyqRlzDXKTEEiDpWiwotniZ7zJr5Mf3XwjX0rI3bWRob41oujWOthu0BmOiv94wNQT6U0l7FTO6UWAmJfJIDAET5gL4nmpr0XDYWwoAFi3AiJiZA31U61hMTwm7fv5gc2c6DmqiIHprvp863gwLqAHdA0TADH2qM5bJIdRLtsoNrVoecD/tqwt0fht8/u+PLcUDxB6vv3kXyIefkDWd4j0mZZCHXlG/8qVKT4M6RnuOcBNrENZtszosGW0AzAHXlpNWOKYu27WmyKWs2Us6H92Akw2vrz8KmGBv3u3cYKDyYtmI8dAfnUl7o/du2gtsW4kGTmgETrIXwJEeldFpLdiUyLoqFxOLtWroDpLMfCFUkCOeoG9ev5gi9loCCQAEAEA7ALppXn/Qboxcs3md+qJKwhXMSDPa3URINbLFYdirpmUkgrziSCN4qOSVy2GjHYyX2WYHMLmJYwT+7XQTqA9w6g7yo+BrY8P4cLAcIxh7jXDou7GY22FCuifC7mEs9VeKBy2bssTIIUD7o8KPqD4j5/pSybvYahkn8R9k9fw1yuYjMY2iEj/ppGK/iHpr+lco/CQfiZpNzUCumGB67CXQzaqvWLIXdASNQOYzD/FXiN8QDPhXvHGC3VXUXKXKlQCSBLCNTG2teW4roViIEG34GWYa+XY2roxSSW7Ekj2HDtsytuAdZI112mK8c+0THdbj7hBnIFtyNB2RLf8zMPhXoeCGIXB21Yp1oTJ3jlLKIUk5dJAB28a8+foNiSTD2T5lnkzzPYOvxrY5bu2Zo1H2X4oNhbqEKSt07gEwyrGvLUGtW6W+dq17Af/E0Jw+AuL3epHjGYfRaurgMREzbj1b80qbcm7Q1DyE521+DH8gP6FZ/pjhrRwrMqOHSGDZiR3gG0LncE8vCpcVi3V8jjK3/ACkeIPOh/G8ROHuhjuh96y1WajNdF8EL1y6XLZVtESJnM3d5HwNWui2Ctvg3dmIeW05aIIqTos4S055l9fQAQPmfeqXA1u2mu2isW3mDI0OwMb6j6VRt7gos9CsOrpcJuKpBEA89OWoonxgrZtl2dY8IaWJ5KIgn40G4RYfDhlMNmjUeXrQvpMXYqQNNoG87n8vagopyNbSBKMA6/wAQ+opuIiTPiY96aloggsI1q49mCW5yY8BrufOrN0xUrQT6KmLuQk5mRpEkiBBEjx3960FsEFteX0IrN9E7Z/al0+60n/A1aTFyJ9K5snyKLgrnEiloS13Wuo0CzQNhgeVB+KcEa4ZRgCOR296Suop0Boof+A3EhmyCdNCTr7Udt4HsgEzoK6upNbc2NS0oR+FI2hUH1FXOEdHELwirmGpJmFB5+foK6urTk6DFI3WCwyYdCVj+85EnT8vIVmOPdL9wgEeJUfIEfWlrqbFFS5BOTRlbTXsUxhsqjvMxP5a0Tw3DrVrulXf8bBvlppS11PNu6NFKrDfDeDs5BZ1by7Wg+IijC8KgdkrH8MH5AUldUWOgvwvCsgJJGggAbT47UmHsFnGoifE/mK6urGFxL5mOkR8dOWlRdSwOmk6/kK6urAGM2wMnWIgfPWDU72dQYiDM+nkK6uoGKnE7P70w0SB4z9Kr3cCQwloJ57jx2jWurqBi9gFGqHY7GOfjHKqOMtQ+WM3ie7tvXV1FAJcNOkACNwPD150XCkCROvKf6ikrqquAMEcTwIuIQ421DbMpMajxHlNY/jGdLd224BIQ6+II0PlXV1KnuN6IejGGm0ykDMjmT/EAy/Ij2q5eweug+NLXU8uRCL9i5k1BieHqwhlVh5gGurqyZgdc4DaP3APTT6Vn2tyTPLT8/wA66upr2Mi30ZcHEgj7uaB4aEenOi+KuFiY5V1dUsnyCuCqcKvM11dXUmpmP//Z

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## AbRaj

HongWu002 said:


> http://thediplomat.com/2016/04/russia-india-china-address-south-china-sea-in-trilateral-statement/
> 
> Soon our comrade Nguyen Phu Truong will join us. Pinoy will be sacrificed as pawn. USD is facing total collapse after so much humiliation.


Impossible, we can't support Chinese aggression in SCS



LacViet said:


> Listen to me, my friend.!!!
> http://data:image/jpeg;base64,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


Ignore Chinese, they are masters of deception

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Tractor

Is south China sea really a matter?And I think China needs no such supports for they are unnecessary.


----------



## Ind4Ever

HongWu002 said:


> http://thediplomat.com/2016/04/russia-india-china-address-south-china-sea-in-trilateral-statement/
> 
> Soon our comrade Nguyen Phu Truong will join us. Pinoy will be sacrificed as pawn. USD is facing total collapse after so much humiliation.



Very sad that Misleading heading /Tittle being used which is obsolescence. 

Here is the statement by RIC 

"_Russia, India and China are committed to maintaining a legal order for the seas and oceans based on the principles of international law, as reflected notably in the UN Convention on the Law of Sea (UNCLOS). All related disputes should be addressed through negotiations and agreements between the parties concerned. In this regard the Ministers called for full respect of all provisions of UNCLOS, as well as the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea (DOC) and the Guidelines for the implementation of the DOC." 

So Indias Stand on SCS is still the same . all should respect UN law of navigation and solve issues bilaterally and peaceful means. India still against aggression by Chinese to invade other territories . Our stand vindicated. 

The header should be that China softened it's stand to follow and respect UN laws . _


----------



## BoQ77

Ind4Ever said:


> Very sad that Misleading heading /Tittle being used which is obsolescence.
> 
> Here is the statement by RIC
> 
> "_Russia, India and China are committed to maintaining a legal order for the seas and oceans based on the principles of international law, as reflected notably in the UN Convention on the Law of Sea (UNCLOS). All related disputes should be addressed through negotiations and agreements between the parties concerned. In this regard the Ministers called for full respect of all provisions of UNCLOS, as well as the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea (DOC) and the Guidelines for the implementation of the DOC."
> 
> So Indias Stand on SCS is still the same . all should respect UN law of navigation and solve issues bilaterally and peaceful means. India still against aggression by Chinese to invade other territories . Our stand vindicated.
> 
> The header should be that China softened it's stand to follow and respect UN laws . _



It's good if China follows the international laws / regulations, like UNCLOS. Vietnam also promotes using UNCLOS,
I doubt that China would follow UNCLOS as what Russia and India expect

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zsari

Ind4Ever said:


> Very sad that Misleading heading /Tittle being used which is obsolescence.
> 
> Here is the statement by RIC
> 
> "_Russia, India and China are committed to maintaining a legal order for the seas and oceans based on the principles of international law, as reflected notably in the UN Convention on the Law of Sea (UNCLOS). All related disputes should be addressed through negotiations and agreements between the parties concerned. In this regard the Ministers called for full respect of all provisions of UNCLOS, as well as the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea (DOC) and the Guidelines for the implementation of the DOC."
> 
> So Indias Stand on SCS is still the same . all should respect UN law of navigation and solve issues bilaterally and peaceful means. India still against aggression by Chinese to invade other territories . Our stand vindicated.
> 
> The header should be that China softened it's stand to follow and respect UN laws . _




Declaration made upon ratification (29 June 1995):

(a) The Government of the Republic of India reserves the right to make at the appropriate time the declarations provided for in articles 287 and 298, concerning the settlement of disputes;

(b) The Government of the Republic of India understands that the provisions of the Convention do not authorize other States to carry out in the exclusive economic zone and on the continental shelf military exercises or manoeuvres, in particular those involving the use of weapons or explosives without the consent of the coastal State.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Nan Yang

Ind4Ever said:


> Very sad that Misleading heading /Tittle being used which is obsolescence.
> 
> Here is the statement by RIC
> 
> "_Russia, India and China are committed to maintaining a legal order for the seas and oceans based on the principles of international law, as reflected notably in the UN Convention on the Law of Sea (UNCLOS). All related disputes should be addressed through negotiations and agreements between the parties concerned. In this regard the Ministers called for full respect of all provisions of UNCLOS, as well as the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea (DOC) and the Guidelines for the implementation of the DOC."
> 
> So Indias Stand on SCS is still the same . all should respect UN law of navigation and solve issues bilaterally and peaceful means. India still against aggression by Chinese to invade other territories . Our stand vindicated.
> 
> The header should be that China softened it's stand to follow and respect UN laws . _



No, not really.

Did Russia Just Side With China on the South China Sea?

QUOTE
However, quite unusual for a media statement, Sergey Lavrov also touched upon the issue of internationalization of the South China Sea dispute. He said:

Our position is determined by the wish, natural for any normal country, to see disputes resolved directly between the countries involved in a peaceful political and diplomatic manner, without any interference from third parties or any attempts to internationalize these disputes.

Lavrov then went on to criticize attempts to internationalize the issue in international forums like the ASEAN Regional Forum (ARF), the East Asia Summits, and the Asia-Europe Meetings and called upon non-claimants to "refrain from taking sides or using these ongoing disputes to get any geopolitical unilateral advantage in the region or to isolate one country or another."
End QUOTE

http://thediplomat.com/2016/04/did-russia-just-side-with-china-on-the-south-china-sea/

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## 帅的一匹

BoQ77 said:


> It's good if China follows the international laws / regulations, like UNCLOS


First return the islands you steal from China



AbRaj said:


> Impossible, we can't support Chinese aggression in SCS
> 
> 
> Ignore Chinese, they are masters of deception


Oh come on!



LacViet said:


> Listen to me, my friend.!!!
> http://data:image/jpeg;base64,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


http://image.baidu.com/search/wisep...tf8&word=习近平和阮富仲&wiseps=1#!/searchDisp/1/0/1e

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## BoQ77

wanglaokan said:


> First return the islands you steal from China
> 
> 
> Oh come on!
> 
> 
> http://image.baidu.com/search/wisep...tf8&word=习近平和阮富仲&wiseps=1#!/searchDisp/1/0/1e



Vietnam didnt kill any Chinese to occupy those islands.
China did, so who steal from whom?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## 帅的一匹

BoQ77 said:


> Vietnam didnt kill any Chinese to occupy those islands.
> China did, so who steal from whom?


You stealed those Islands, we have to take it back by force. Actually you are really suck at sea battle, your marine almost Annhilated by PLA navy with smaller boat. You can't treat theif nicely. especially a thief lick Soviet arse.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## 帅的一匹

AbRaj said:


> Chinese are evil


World politics is not to be or not to be. It's very flexible and move accordingly.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

wanglaokan said:


> You stealed those Islands, we have to take it back by force. Actually you are really suck at sea battle, your marine almost Annhilated by PLA navy with smaller boat. You can't treat theif nicely. especially a thief lick Soviet arse.



you are talking like "China steal Guangdong from Vietnam", actually Guangdong belong to Vietnam since ancient time.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## 帅的一匹

BoQ77 said:


> you are talking like "China steal Guangdong from Vietnam", actually Guangdong belong to Vietnam since ancient time.


The whole Vietnam belonged to China or sometimes were puppet state in the past. All the historical book of Vietnam is written in Chinese, actually you don't have history. At China's mercy allowed you to dig some oil make living, you don't want more ok?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

wanglaokan said:


> The whole Vietnam belonged to China or sometimes were puppet state in the past. All the historical book of Vietnam is written in Chinese, actually you don't have history. At China's mercy allowed you to dig some oil make living, you don't want more ok?



"actually you don't have history" ? meaningless post.
recently, you become ugly, I see

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## 帅的一匹

BoQ77 said:


> "actually you don't have history" ? meaningless post.
> recently, you become ugly, I see


You can't cut off your past with China, you don't even try it. Ugly or not, I've enough of your BS.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

Doomfloyd said:


> I doubt that the U.S would go to war with China in order to protect it's "Allies"
> Japan, South Korea, Phillipines, Vietnam and Malaysia should all Stick together to counter the Chinese Threat.
> The U.S will never fight the Chinese, They will likely try to solve a war in a diplomatic way to Avoid Chinese Embargo because they need the Chinese... The Chinese Also needs them that is why. They both Dependant of each other's goods, resources(etc). So relying on the United States for defence is not good.
> That is why i think that the All the other Countries mentioned should all stick together and probably sign an agreement of some sort to protect each other.



If China invades Mongolia, who would protect Mongolia? Could you name?
Netizen always confused, but never look back at history.
Vietnam fought hundred battles against China, without any external help in their long history.
And They are still independent from China today.
During recent at least 1000 years, Vietnam almost free from China.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## AbRaj

BoQ77 said:


> "actually you don't have history" ? meaningless post.
> recently, you become ugly, I see


They can claim anything written in Chinese in one scripture or other, hilarious


----------



## wiseone2

xunzi said:


> The issue in SCS is not about freedom of navigation. It is about freedom to spy on others in the EEZ. Now we have a problem with this and India even agree with us. In fact, we have test the US during RIMPAC on that principle and as you can see, they don't like when others spy on them in the EEZ, so called international water. But they do it to others. That is the major issue at hand in SCS.



as matter of international law countries have right of access to travel in EEZ. They cannot fish or extract natural resources.

The major issue at hand is a territorial dispute


----------



## SrNair

dy1022 said:


> Today's China in SCS, Tomorrow's India in Indian ocean!
> 
> 
> everyone should say fcuk off to US' outdated hegemonism.



Of Course we know that .that is why always maintains an independent policy .
On topic :Noone should use SCS for threatning others including US.


----------



## Zsari

wiseone2 said:


> as matter of international law countries have right of access to travel in EEZ. They cannot fish or extract natural resources.



Its one thing to travel through the EEZ, its entirely another to carry out military exercise and manuver within another's EEZ. And according to Indian government's declaration, it saw such action as in violation of international law. That is in agreement with China, Russia and many other nations who ratified the UNCLOS.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

HongWu002 said:


> http://thediplomat.com/2016/04/russia-india-china-address-south-china-sea-in-trilateral-statement/
> 
> Soon our comrade Nguyen Phu Truong will join us. Pinoy will be sacrificed as pawn. USD is facing total collapse after so much humiliation.



Remind if anyone confusing, this part of statement sound identical to what Vietnam always speak to China who always in ignorance mode and violate those principles. If China choose this way, there's no room for US to raise their voice in this issue.


> _Russia, India and China are *committed to maintaining a legal order for the seas and oceans based on the principles of international law, as reflected notably in the UN Convention on the Law of Sea (UNCLOS). All related disputes should be addressed through negotiations and agreements between the parties concerned. In this regard the Ministers called for full respect of all provisions of UNCLOS, as well as the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea (DOC) and the Guidelines for the implementation of the DOC.*_



If China based on principles of international law, why they didn't join PH in the legal case at PCA ? No, They didn't base on intl law. PH did.

Sinking other fishboats is "negotiation" ? No, it isn't. China use murder and violence to handle others

Who disrespect UNCLOS ? It's China.
UNCLOS means international application
-----------------

Instead of meaning"support China", the joint statement means promoting to use only negotiations and jurisdiction to resolve the conflict. *Another word, the statement support what Philippine doing on the issue, not what China did*, which violated all of provisions of UN CLOS and international laws, and DOC.
@Zero_wing

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

It is funny that instead of making joint statement with Asean about eleminate external powers, China make joint statement with two external powers. Lol.

this maybe response to ASEAN - US meeting in Sunnylands in Feb.

China need to know and examine what happen if they decide to ignore the PCA statement on nine dashed line, and its consequence.
Recently, ASEAN become solid and lean to US. UK also oppose the China act and urge China for acceptance of PCA statement on nine dashed line.


> British Minister of State Hugo Swire’s comments regarding the South China Sea.
> 
> Speaking in Washington on Monday, Swire accused China of driving tensions in the region and said any ruling by the South China Sea tribunal in The Hague should be binding.



It's too risk, not to examine the attitude of Russia and India, two other big neighbors of China.
And their reply is quite clear, "China ! Let accept to reach the agreement with other SCS claimants by Negotiation or accept the PCA statement" Don't count on us, because we have no way but follow the international laws.

Anything could happen, if China choose different way, ignore the internatinal laws. That could be strong reaction of India, Russia, USA, UK and ASEAN on the issue.
Militarization is the trend, because less and less nation believe on the peaceful rising of China.



> *South China Sea: China Slams US-Philippines Rotational Basing Agreement*
> China cites the announcement of U.S. access to Philippines bases as evidence of militarization in the South China Sea.
> 
> By Ankit Panda
> March 23, 2016


----------



## wiseone2

Zsari said:


> Its one thing to travel through the EEZ, its entirely another to carry out military exercise and manuver within another's EEZ. And according to Indian government's declaration, it saw such action as in violation of international law. That is in agreement with China, Russia and many other nations who ratified the UNCLOS.



Right to travel in the EEZ pretty much implies they can conduct a military exercise. Russians conduct military exercises in international waters all the time. Russian naval aircraft keep buzzing the American coastline before USAF fighters turn them back


----------



## BoQ77

*U.S. to give Philippines eye in sky to track South China Sea activity*






U.S. Defence Secretary Ash Carter (R) and U.S. ambassador to the Philippines Philip Goldberg stand at attention while the American anthem is played at the American cemetery in Taguig, metro Manila April 14, 2016.
Reuters/Ezra Acaya

*The United States will transfer an observation blimp to the Philippines to help it track maritime activity and guard its borders amid rising tensions in the South China Sea, *a U.S. diplomat said on Monday.

Philip Goldberg, U.S. ambassador to the Philippines, said Washington would give Manila, its oldest Asia-Pacific security ally, *$42 million worth of sensors, radar and communications equipment.*

_*"We will add to its capability to put sensors on ships and put an aerostat blimp in the air to see into the maritime space*_," Goldberg said in an interview with CNN Philippines,

The blimp is a balloon-borne radar to collect information and detect movements in the South China Sea, a Philippine military official said.

China claims almost the entire South China Sea, believed to have huge deposits of oil and gas. Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines, Taiwan and Vietnam also have claims to parts of the waters, through which about $5 trillion in trade is shipped every year.

U.S. Defense Secretary Ash Carter visited the Philippines last week to reaffirm Washington's "ironclad" commitment to defend Manila under a 1951 security treaty.

China has been expanding its presence on its seven artificial islands in the Spratly archipelago and on Monday landed a military plane for the first time on one of them, Fiery Cross Reef.

It comes ahead of a planned U.S. freedom of navigation patrol this month near the Spratlys.

Carter's visit also signals the start of U.S. military deployment in the Philippines, with 75 soldiers to be rotated in and out of an air base north of Manila.

Goldberg said the two allies had agreed to set up a system for "secure and classified communications" as part of a five-year, $425 million security initiative by Washington in Southeast Asia.

*Manila will receive some $120 million in U.S. military aid this year*, the largest sum since 2000 when the American military returned to the Philippines for training and exercises after an eight-year hiatus.

They signed a new deal in 2013 allowing increased U.S. military presence on a rotational basis and storage of supplies and equipment for maritime security and humanitarian missions.

(Reporting By Manuel Mogato; Editing by Martin Petty and Nick Macfie)


----------



## SBUS-CXK

OrionHunter said:


> Oh really?  It looks nothing like it. *China can't teach lessons in 'peaceful behavior' to anyone seeing its 'unpeaceful behavior' towards nations such as :
> 
> Vietnam
> Taiwan
> Japan
> Indonesia
> Philippines
> India
> Australia
> USA
> Malaysia
> Brunei*
> 
> Practice what you preach!


China's neighbours have 14 on land. There are some dispute is inevitable.

Other countries also have a lot of territorial disputes. Such as the UK and Argentina, UK and Spain.

Then look at Asian countries disputed.

Vietnam VS China.Philippines. Taiwan
.Thailand.
Philippines VS China. Vietnam. Malaysia
.Indonesia.Taiwan.
Japan VS China. South Korea. Russia. Taiwan.

Let's take a look at India, oh, India for 35 rupees a day poverty line... 1. India repeatedly threatened to attack China's Tibet. 2. And claims that they can Brownian motion of missiles capable of hitting Beijing. 3. The threat to dismember give way province. 4. Threat annexation of Nepal. 5. Threat annexation of Sri Lanka. 6. Threat annexation of Bangladesh. 7. Invading Burma, as a result, repelled by the Burmese army. 8. The net friend told me, you even threatened to invade a Pacific island countries. 9.Direct annexation of Sikkim

Civilization may have territorial disputes between countries. But India has no territorial disputes... Because India with his controversial countries directly takeover. Perhaps, India needs a mirror.



BoQ77 said:


> If China invades Mongolia, who would protect Mongolia? Could you name?
> Netizen always confused, but never look back at history.
> Vietnam fought hundred battles against China, without any external help in their long history.
> And They are still independent from China today.
> During recent at least 1000 years, Vietnam almost free from China.


Do you know "ho chi minh trail" of the war in Vietnam??? We have no direct annexation of Sikkim. Not claim that our missiles capable of hitting a country capital... Because our missile is not as "advanced" "Brownian motion"

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## BoQ77

Two said:


> Do you know "ho chi minh trail" of the war in Vietnam??? We have no direct annexation of Sikkim. Not claim that our missiles capable of hitting a country capital... Because our missile is not as "advanced" "Brownian motion"



Don't catch what you mean. Please define.
China could run out of missile inventory in just one month, with less achievement.


----------



## SBUS-CXK

BoQ77 said:


> Don't catch what you mean. Please define.
> China could run out of missile inventory in just one month, with less achievement.


 Look at the news----In a grim reality check in March, TOI had reported that India did not have enough ammunition to undertake a full-blown war with “intense fighting” for even 20 days. Six months down the line, the situation on the ground has not changed much.

The WWR, incidentally, should be sufficient for 30 days of “intense” and 30 days of “normal” fighting. With three days of “normal” equal to one of “intense”, the WWR should consequently be adequate for 40 days of “intense” fighting.

China does not like India, we don't need to buy weapons store all over the world. We are the world's fourth largest exporter of weapons... The Iraqi army has just use Chinese CH - 4 unmanned aerial vehicle (uav) to destroy the terrorist bases. Please Google.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## HongWu002

http://www.morningnewsusa.com/china-deploy-nuclear-weapons-south-china-sea-2372997.html

http://freebeacon.com/national-secu...ultiple-warhead-missile-test-south-china-sea/

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## BoQ77

This statement would strengthen other statements of China about "peaceful rise"

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Don't make the Panda angry

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## PaklovesTurkiye

Excellent development...

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Hyperion

Why would anyone be moving 'nuclear' stuff, when they had ICBMS / SLBMS and HGV's on the way!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## albert_008

SCS is currently a perfect location for CHina to deploy nuclear sub and launch nuclear missiles. The large area of sea is covered by PLAN and surrouding nations are relative weak in terms of naval capacilities. One day when China has enough strength and confidence, PLAN's playground is in Pacific.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Beast

BoQ77 said:


> This statement would strengthen other statements of China about "peaceful rise"


Does peaceful rise means China cannot self defense?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Jlaw

C130 said:


> why would China move nuclear weapons to the SCS when they have 10,000KM+ ICBMs



You should ask the US news outlet about these stories.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## C130

HongWu002 said:


> South China Sea is our submarine bastion just like Black Sea for Russia.
> 
> Maybe we are developing a nuclear weapon so big it cannot be mounted on a missile. Like 200 megatons. Designed for Pinoy. It will be put on a tanker and sail into Manila.




no the Yellow Sea is your bastion  not sure if you are really Chinese if you didn't know this 



Jlaw said:


> You should ask the US news outlet about these stories.




the sources are terrible and this just fear mongering. you shouldn't be allowed to post crap from such sources.


----------



## Jlaw

C130 said:


> no the Yellow Sea is your bastion  not sure if you are really Chinese if you didn't know this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the sources are terrible and this just fear mongering. you shouldn't be allowed to post crap from such sources.



It happens. It appears almost every member will post anything from any source to try and make a point


----------



## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

HongWu002 said:


> South China Sea is our submarine bastion just like Black Sea for Russia.
> 
> Maybe we are developing a nuclear weapon so big it cannot be mounted on a missile. Like 200 megatons. Designed for Pinoy. It will be put on a tanker and sail into Manila.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Hamartia Antidote

C130 said:


> the sources are terrible and this just fear mongering. you shouldn't be allowed to post crap from such sources.



Australian server I think
http://morningnewsusa.com.websiteoutlook.com/


----------



## Globenim

Firing a missle into a sea because it won't hit any valuable targets isn't exactly the same as deploying it for a war in that sea.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## rott

Not a Reliable source. I would take this with a pinch of salt.


----------



## SBUS-CXK

curioususer said:


> from a cheer leading country's website. are there any similar reports from any neutral countries?


Australia is not neutral countries? 
Maybe you should see "HendersonBrooksreport"



skyknight said:


> List as many countries as you can&#65292;if it can make you feel better&#12290;
> I suggest you copy country names from here


Such as......... Pakistan, Nepal, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, myanmar. Or Sikkim?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## SBUS-CXK

T-Rex said:


> *It's also a victory for the friends of China. I've always said that the US never had the guts to face a powerful adversary, it chooses weak nations to intimidate. There's a lesson in it for Hu Jin Tao and Wen too. My congratulations to Xi Jinping!*


Hu jintao era (2003-2013). China never against the United States. Also does not have too much of the south China sea dispute. While Vietnam and the Philippines to speed up the construction of the military deployment of the south China sea islands also. We almost have no dignity... Xi jinping, after taking office, will be the end of the tolerance policy implemented by the since 1978. To abandon the "hide our capabilities and bide our time "strategy. Beginning to use strength to speak.

While the USA to China's critics is unfair. In the confrontation between China and the Philippines, China sent a coast guard vessel, and the Philippines sent two frigates! From beginning to end, the Chinese are restrained. In May 2013, the Philippine armed ships fired at the Taiwan fishing boat without any warning And continuous pursuit of Taiwan fishing vessel for an hour. Until Taiwanese territorial waters! Killing a Taiwanese fishermen. Sparked anger in Taiwan. And the USA said not familiar with the occurrence of the incident. USA intentionally cover for the Philippines

We don't have any invasion of any country. No threat annexation of Nepal, No annexation of Sri Lanka, there is no threat annexation of Bangladesh, no threat to dismember baluchistan province. There is no invasion of Burma, annexation of Sikkim...... We just fight back.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Speeder 2

There is no real South China Sea issue at all.

So-called "South China Sea issue" is in essence China-US regional leadership issue.

5-10 years later if we look back, you people will understand that China will prevail in SCS if all sides are rational players as they are, because China's economic weight is , and will keep becoming, too big for the US to compete the leadership role in the region. All military powers, the US military power included, are after all based on economic power in the core.

China and the US will almost never fight eye-to-eye directly. All you seenow are postures and smoke screens.

There will be, however, 2 small senarios where China must and will fight:

1. against the small cannon fodders of the US in the region, when they are low IQ enough to take on China directly dreaming that the US is right behind them backing them up. They will be ruthlessly awakened by a big surprise! As I said, the US won't fight China, and vice-versus.

2. against Japan - most of the mainstream Chinese strategists are just too kind, or too information-wise stupid, to even realise that Japan is the *SINGLE* *MOST IMPORTANT* hand behind South China Sea issue, not the US!!! Let me explain why:* 
the ultimate strategic goal of Japan* is to drag the US into a war with China in the region. Fortunately both China and the US are extremely careful and both realise that it's almost impossile. Both China and the US have been constanly barking loudly at each other. But we all know that barking dogs won't bite. However, Japan can make it happn, as Japan will take all opportunities keeping pushing it because in case of the war between the 2 superpowers, winner would be Japan, alone! So Japan is betting heavily that China would be too kind to do anything to Japan proper should China be dragged into a war with the US. Up till now, Japan is suceeding... China's top strategists must make Japan know directly and explicitly that in case *any* *hot conflcit* occurs between CHina and the US in SCS in the future, China *will* firstly bomb Japan into the stone age at the very start of the conflict simplely because Japan will be the underying leading cause. Only Japan clearly realises that China will be determined to do so, will it refrain from keep provocating the war as it is doing now.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## LacViet

What Xi Jinping would like to do, ís same what Kim Jungun did. Both is princeling.


----------



## BoQ77

Beast said:


> Does peaceful rise means China cannot self defense?



You called nuclear weapon for SCS war as self defend?

How about North KoreA, Japan nuke program?

And maybe Vietnam, South Korea nuke program.

nuke against nuke


----------



## xunzi

BoQ77 said:


> You called nuclear weapon for SCS war as self defend?
> 
> How about North KoreA, Japan nuke program?
> 
> And maybe Vietnam, South Korea nuke program.
> 
> nuke against nuke


Let us remind you that we have a No 1st Use Nuclear policy.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## dy1022

BoQ77 said:


> You called nuclear weapon for SCS war as self defend?
> 
> How about North KoreA, Japan nuke program?
> 
> And maybe Vietnam, South Korea nuke program.
> 
> nuke against nuke






China can do it!


you can't!


this is the biggest international law on earth!

better get used to it or cry me a river!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

WASHINGTON: The US military conducted "freedom of navigation" operations against 13 countries last year, including several to challenge China's claims in the South and East China seas, according to an annual Pentagon report released on Monday.

The operations were against China, India, Indonesia, Iran, Libya, Malaysia, the Maldives, Oman, the Philippines and Vietnam, the report said.....

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...on-rights-last-year/articleshow/51988898.cms?

-------------------

US challenge India too? unless India also claim Indian Ocean is India's ocean..., how about all these countries unite and set sail to US pacific coast to exercise and demonstrate the freedom of navigation

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## Nilgiri

Its common since India's EEZ is quite huge and the Andaman and Nicobar + Laskhadweep ones are strategically quite significant (for Malacca entrance + routes to Diego Garcia respectively) to the USN.







The US position is that EEZ does not equal territorial waters (which is fair enough) and does not need to inform India of transit (which is the stated Indian policy for its EEZ)....and holds up that is has no such requirements for its own EEZ.

We see no serious diplomatic issue with this unlike the Chinese SCS drama where parts of the spratly's have claimed territorial water components that the US is freely violating to stick it to China like so:

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/01/31/us-w...d-in-south-china-sea-infuriating-beijing.html

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Nilgiri said:


> Its common since India's EEZ is quite huge and the Andaman and Nicobar + Laskhadweep ones are strategically quite significant (for Malacca entrance + routes to Diego Garcia respectively) to the USN.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The US position is that EEZ does not equal territorial waters (which is fair enough) and does not need to inform India of transit (which is the stated Indian policy for its EEZ)....and holds up that is has no such requirements for its own EEZ.
> 
> We see no serious diplomatic issue with this unlike the Chinese SCS drama where parts of the spratly's have claimed territorial water components that the US is freely violating to stick it to China like so:
> 
> http://www.cnbc.com/2016/01/31/us-w...d-in-south-china-sea-infuriating-beijing.html



I'm please to hear that India is so easy...oh well that's India's choice but as China we gonna have some fun with US.

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Nilgiri

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> I'm please to hear that India is so easy...oh well that's India's choice but as China we gonna have some fun with US.



That is your choice of course . They are not crossing any of our territorial waters (12 nmi), the issue pertains only to EEZ (200 nmi).

BTW, does china have a similar policy for its EEZ transit, or it only applies to territorial waters (for warships)?


----------



## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Nilgiri said:


> That is your choice of course . They are not crossing any of our territorial waters (12 nmi), the issue pertains only to EEZ (200 nmi).
> 
> BTW, does china have a similar policy for its EEZ transit, or it only applies to territorial waters (for warships)?



We will settle with US over this 12 nmi issue, it's just a matter of time but every nation can transit EEZ of other countries

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Echo_419

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> WASHINGTON: The US military conducted "freedom of navigation" operations against 13 countries last year, including several to challenge China's claims in the South and East China seas, according to an annual Pentagon report released on Monday.
> 
> The operations were against China, India, Indonesia, Iran, Libya, Malaysia, the Maldives, Oman, the Philippines and Vietnam, the report said.....
> 
> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...on-rights-last-year/articleshow/51988898.cms?
> 
> -------------------
> 
> US challenge India too? unless India also claim Indian Ocean is India's ocean..., how about all these countries unite and set sail to US pacific coast to exercise and demonstrate the freedom of navigation





Lol, and these guys were saying we should further increase cooperation with them



Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> We will settle with US over this 12 nmi issue, it's just a matter of time but every nation can transit EEZ of other countries



Good luck with that

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BoQ77

It's no problem to others because they respect the intl laws, and the fact that USN does follow the right in according to intl laws to protect not break it.

US challenges as way to maintain the rights


----------



## BoQ77

UnClos isnt the only intl laws. Freedom of Navigation is basic right since ancient time.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

BoQ77 said:


> UnClos isnt the only intl laws. Freedom of Navigation is basic right since ancient time.



"Freedom of Navigation" is just a recent slogan used by US as excuse to meddle SCS affaire, and you call that as basic right since ancient time. , and to add insult to American "freedom of Navigation", Russia invent a new slogan "*Freedom of Aeronautic*"  during the SU-24 close encounter with US destroyer at Baltic sea...LMAO...just too funny

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## HongWu002

http://thediplomat.com/2016/04/the-us-cancelled-a-scheduled-fonop-in-the-south-china-sea-what-now/

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## xunzi



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## xunzi

Nobody questions about the freedom of navigation in the EEZ of other countries. What we opposing is the doing renaissance inside the EEZ of other countries. That is disrespectful. But if that is what the US wants, then they shall be prepare when our navy operated and spy in all of their allies EEZ.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Taygibay

Calm down good people, this article carries bias that makes the subject of it look for what it's not!

This sentence shows it well :
"The cancellation of a scheduled freedom of navigation operation undermines earlier pledges by senior U.S. officials, including Defense Secretary Ashton Carter, that the patrols would become a regular occurrence in the South China Sea."

That's crap! The first of those FONOP as the article itself specifies was in 2015
and the second in January. Thus, skipping one ( not even really skipping actually
but merely replacing it with air patrols ) at this point means little. There is time for
one or two more before the year ends. Not coming every 3 months on the clock is
not the same as not being regular. Birthdays come once a year only and yet are ...
regular occurrences.

Heck, if one FONOP was held in June & one in November then 4 next year ( 2017 ),
that would be a "*regular*" 100% yearly increase, wouldn't it?

If you read between the lines, the author is pushing a warmonger's agenda to DC.
Don't base your knowledge entirely on glorified lobbyists' pieces; trust the facts!

好日子所有, Tay.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Nilgiri

xunzi said:


> Nobody questions about the freedom of navigation in the EEZ of other countries. What we opposing is the doing renaissance inside the EEZ of other countries. That is disrespectful. But if that is what the US wants, then they shall be prepare when our navy operated and spy in all of their allies EEZ.



They are violating your claimed territorial waters (not just EEZ recon)....since a territorial water would extend 12 nautical miles from each island that China claims in SCS....and US made sure to sail it ships within that distance...right next to those islands.


----------



## xunzi

Nilgiri said:


> They are violating your claimed territorial waters (not just EEZ recon)....since a territorial water would extend 12 nautical miles from each island that China claims in SCS....and US made sure to sail it ships within that distance...right next to those islands.


You are right. The US violated our water many times. If it wasn't for our great patient, this would be war a long time ago. Now you finally understand why we are defending our national water. LOL

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## BoQ77

* 
Vietnam sent the Navy missile guided Fast Attack Ship and naval special force to ASEAN ADMM+MS/CT 2016 *

*





............................................

Preparations for ADMM+MS/CT 2016 inspected *

PANO - Wednesday, April 27, 2016,
PANO – A delegation of the Navy inspected the preparations of crew members on ship 381 (Brigade 162, Naval Region 4), on April 26th, for their participation in the ASEAN Defense Ministers’ Meeting Plus Maritime Security and Counterterrorism Exercise (ADMM+MS/CT 2016). The assigned unit is now in Cam Ranh Military Port, Khanh Hoa province, to be ready for the big regional maritime event.





_The crew of ship 381_
During the inspection, the delegation praised ship 381’s efforts in thoroughly preparing forces and equipment for the coming event. The delegation also made recommendations about how to prepare for the meeting and contribute to the success of the exercises.

Maritime security and counterterrorism exercises will take place in Brunei and Singapore from May 2nd to 12th. This year Vietnam will send naval and commando troops to join the exercises and strengthen bilateral defense cooperation with Brunei and Singapore. The participation of Vietnamese troops in the event demonstrates the Vietnamese Party, State, and Army protecting sovereignty over seas and islands, protecting national interests at sea, and ensuring regional security. This is all in accordance with international law and with new challenges regarding maritime security and terrorism in the region.


----------



## Hamartia Antidote

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> "Freedom of Navigation" is just a recent slogan used by US as excuse to meddle SCS affaire,



Sorry it isn't a recent slogan...there were 2 major incidents (and many other littler ones) off Libya in the 1980's due to Freedom of Navigation issues in Libya's "Line of Death".
They weren't minor either like the SCS stuff...at least 4 fighters were shot down.

The US ships were nowhere close to 12 miles out either. Probably more like 100.


----------



## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Sorry it isn't a recent slogan...there were 2 major incidents (and many other littler ones) off Libya in the 1980's due to Freedom of Navigation issues in Libya's "Line of Death".
> They weren't minor either like the SCS stuff...at least 4 fighters were shot down.
> 
> The US ships were nowhere close to 12 miles out either. Probably more like 100.



Freedom of navigation was American idea to counter UNCLOS in 1979, because under UNCLOS it will restrain US sea hegemonic action and force it to respect on international law and US refused because it's not in US interest to do so and it know that none of UNCLOS nations has the capability to force US to accept the UNCLOS law. And Hypocritically US is trying to lecture China with UNCLOS over SCS...LMAO

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Hamartia Antidote

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Freedom of navigation was American idea to counter UNCLOS in 1979, because under UNCLOS it will restrain US sea hegemonic action and force it to respect on international law and US refused because it's not in US interest to do so and it know that none of UNCLOS nations has the capability to force US to accept the UNCLOS law. And Hypocritically US is trying to lecture China with UNCLOS over SCS...LMAO



"Freedom of the Seas" has been used for 100's of years. UNCLOS sought to establish a *unified territorial limit* since some countries had 3 miles while other said 100 miles. 12 miles was the agreed upon worldwide limit.

Not sure how you see UNCLOS being contrary to the Libya incident.

UNCLOS did have other provisions in it that the US objected to. Most of it had to do with seafloor mining outside your territory.

I don't think there are any ship navigation issues in UNCLOS that the US objects to.


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

*Indonesia to finalise joint patrol plan in South China Sea with Malaysia, Philippines*




Indonesia's Coordinating Minister for Political, Legal and Security Affairs Luhut Pandjaitan says more needs to be done to deter piracy.PHOTO: REUTERS
Published
6 hours ago
Francis Chan
Indonesia Bureau Chief


Indonesia, Malaysia and the Philippines are expected to finalise plans for joint patrols in piracy-prone areas in the South China Sea at a trilateral meeting in Yogyakarta on Thursday (May 5).

The gathering of foreign ministers and armed forces chiefs from the three countries comes after recent kidnappings in the waters off southern Philippines and north of Borneo, where Indonesia shares a border with Malaysia.

The officials will first call on President Joko Widodo at the Gedung Agung presidential palace in the city, before meeting to discuss how they can cooperate to further enhance security in the region.


In the past five weeks, 14 Indonesian and four Malaysian seamen were abducted from their boats by gunmen believed to have ties with the Abu Sayyaf terrorist group.

Ten Indonesians seized at the end of March were released on May 1 and have since returned home.


Indonesia's Coordinating Minister for Political, Legal and Security Affairs Luhut Pandjaitan had said that more needs to be done to deter piracy before the kidnappings become a booming business as it has evolved into in Somalia.

Experts say the joint patrols may take the form of the successful Malacca Straits Patrol (MSP), which was established on April 21, 2006, by the navies of Singapore, Indonesia, Thailand and Malaysia.

The MSP is a set of cooperative measures made up of the Malacca Strait Sea Patrol (MSSP); "Eyes in the Sky" aerial patrols; and the MSP Intelligence Exchange Group.

The navy chiefs of Indonesia, Singapore and Thailand as well as Malaysia's deputy chief of navy had gathered at Singapore's Changi Naval Base on April 21 to commemorate the MSP's 10th anniversary.

The MSSP has been successful in tackling piracy in South-east Asia, significantly reducing the number of piracy attacks in the busy sea lane, two experts from the University of Indonesia (UI) told The Jakarta Post on May 3.

"Notwithstanding the success of the joint patrol in the Malacca Strait as a lesson learned, a joint patrol in the sea off Kalimantan would be a challenging task with different factors to take into account,"said Mr Christian Guntur Lebang and Mr Muhamad Arif from UI.

Indonesian Foreign Minister Retno Marsudi did not rule out the possibility of turning to a model similar to the MSSP, but she added that any cooperation among the three countries must be agreed on without any of them sacrificing their sovereignty.

"Negotiations will go on until we find a common understanding and are able to conduct joint operations," she said on Wednesday.

Philippine Foreign Secretary Jose Rene Almendras said after calling on Ms Retno he was grateful that his Indonesian counterpart and President Joko had initiated the trilateral meeting.

"We are here, contrary to reports that the Philippines is not supportive of the proposed coordinated patrols and coordinated activities and information sharing," he said at a press conference at the Foreign Affairs Ministry in Jakarta.

"Our presence here is testament that we, the Philippines, are very very interested in coming up and participating in the discussions so that agreements can happen."

He added that the release of the 10 Indonesian seamen was "very meaningful" to the Philippines.

"We are very pleased and happy that it has happened but I must say that the Indonesian people must acknowledge the fact that the Indonesian government did its very best to get them released. Their efforts, their initiatives, which we work with them on, have resulted in the (release) and we hope the release of the rest of the hostages will also happen."

tkchan@sph.com.sg

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## bobsm

*U.S. journal criticizes Obama administration for provocation in South China Sea*
(Xinhua) 14:39, May 07, 2016

NEW YORK, May 6 -- The Barack Obama administration's provocative policy in the Pacific is gunboat diplomacy in disguise and may lead to war in the region if not quickly reversed, a U.S. journal warned on Friday.

The article "Prelude to War in the Pacific," published on the latest issue of Executive Intelligence Review, provided a detailed analysis on why the provocative meddling in the Pacific region by the United States is dangerous, why China's territorial claims of the Nansha and Xisha Islands are legitimate, and how the United States is sabotaging the amicable resolution of the regional conflict.

Bylined by the Washington Bureau Chief of the publication William Jones, the article noted that Washington did not sign the UN Law of the Sea Convention, but elaborated its unilateral "freedom of navigation policy" out of the country's own selfish interests.

The policy effectively allows the U.S. Navy to sail wherever and whenever it wants, unimpeded by any treaty, which essentially making U.S. military vessels a modern form of "gunboat diplomacy," wrote Jones.

It denounced Western media for depicting China's claims to the Nansha and Xisha Islands as a Chinese "power grab," arguing that for most of China's history, these claims have never been contested.

Throughout the region's history, extensive activities by Chinese on the islands were present, including fishing and planting, and some Chinese even lived on the islands for years. Many Chinese relics and remains have been found there, including the remains of temples, the article said.

Jones also argued that Chinese possession of the islands would have a beneficial effect on navigation in the region.

"Already China has constructed two lighthouses on Huayang Reef in the Nanshas, and emergency rescue facilities have been established on the Nanshas and Xishas."

The article made an accurate analogy to display the hypocrisy of the U.S. rhetoric.

"Remember that the United States in 1872 sent General John Schofield to the then independent kingdom of Hawaii to investigate those islands for the purpose of eventually putting U.S. military facilities on an advanced perimeter in the Pacific," said the article.

"But the Hawaiian Islands are 2,390 miles from the coast of California, while the Nansha Islands are 500 miles from the Chinese coast and the Xisha only 180 miles. And while the United States had no claim to the Hawaiian Islands (but would soon annex them in rather murky circumstances), China does have such a claim, a claim which was once universally recognized," Jones argued.

Jones believed that countries in the region had a path to peaceful resolution to the conflicts of their territorial claims, but Washington was actively sabotaging the efforts.

"China is clearly aware of the conflicts that have arisen with its neighbors over its attempt to make good on its claims," said Jones in the article. "It is also concerned to maintain amicable relations with its neighbors, and is therefore engaged in coming to agreements with the various claimants through a process of bilateral negotiations."

The article highlighted the agreements between the countries of the region, encapsulated in the 2012 Declaration of Conduct signed by the members of ASEAN and the government of China.

The document calls on the parties "to resolve their territorial and jurisdictional disputes by peaceful means, without resorting to the threat or use of force, through friendly consultations and negotiations by sovereign states directly concerned, in accordance with universally recognized principles of international law, including the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea."

However, the Philippines has taken the issue to arbitration in its dispute with China. And with the blessing of the United States, the Philippines is hoping that the Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague will rule in its favor, said the article.

Jones argued that if the disputes involved only the countries in the region, they could be resolved amicably. "Given the economic strength of China and its clear willingness to use that strength to create a win-win situation for its neighbors -- as we have seen in China's Belt and Road Initiative -- there is no reason that satisfactory arrangements beneficial to all could not be worked out."

The article warned sternly against U.S. provocative policy in the Pacific region, saying that the U.S. invasions of Chinese waters, and the attempts by the United States to create a mini-NATO to target China using the few allies it has in the region, have made an amicable solution impossible.


http://en.people.cn/n3/2016/0507/c90777-9054520.html

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cnleio

China island vs Vietnam island

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## BoQ77

cnleio said:


> China island vs Vietnam island
> 
> View attachment 304176



Yes. We don't violate DOC as this is just a submerge islets.


----------



## BoQ77

*South China Sea: Who Occupies What in the Spratlys?*
A closer look at a basic yet poorly understood question.

By Alexander L. Vuving
May 06, 2016
1.1k
4
15
*1.1k* Shares

The discourse on the South China Sea disputes is understandably laden with emotion. That is arguably a reason why debate on the subject should be based on facts. And yet, as Bill Hayton has noted, “Unreliable evidence is clouding the international discourse on the South China Sea disputes.” Indeed, it sometimes feels like a thick veil is hiding the truth about the South China Sea.

Consider, for instance, the argument that China, far from being the aggressor in the South China Sea, is in fact merely reacting to unilateral provocations by others such as Vietnam. That conclusion is based on some rather questionable evidence, including the suggestion that Vietnam has “doubled its holdings” in the South China Sea in the past 20 years. Even if one assumes that Vietnam occupied 24 features in 1996 (the actual data from which the map often drawn for this line of argument actually specifies 22), the idea that there has been some sort of doubling is misleading. The source for this claim – a 2015 congressional testimony by a senior U.S. defense official – in fact specified 48 _outposts_ amongst the features occupied by Vietnam in the Spratly Islands, rather than 48 _features_. Using a 20-year timeline is also equally misleading because it leaves out China’s seizure of Mischief Reed 21 years ago.

But more broadly, the issue is that there is still no real clarity about who occupies what in the Spratly Islands. It is not uncommon to find articles – and sometimes even publicly available documents, maps and data – that contain inaccurate, conflicting and sometimes unreliable information. This piece attempts to address that issue by looking at who actually occupies what in the Spratlys. In investigating these questions, I have consulted multiple sources, many of which are primary, and interviewed several people knowledgeable about the subject matters. The information obtained has also been carefully checked.

*Vietnam*

Vietnam currently occupies 21 features in the Spratly Islands, with the latest taken a few days after a bloody clash on March 14, 1988 with China at Johnson South Reef. A full list of these features with their names and coordinates was publicized in the April 22, 1988 issue of _Nhan Dan_, the Vietnamese government’s mouthpiece. They are:


Southwest Cay (Vietnamese: _Song Tu Tay_),
South Reef (_Da Nam_),
Petley Reef (_Nui Thi_ or _Da Thi_),
Sand Cay (_Son Ca_),
Namyit Island (_Nam Yet_),
Discovery Great Reef (_Da Lon_),
Sin Cowe Island (_Sinh Ton_),
Collins Reef (_Co Lin_),
Lansdowne Reef (_Len Dao_),
Sin Cowe East Island (_Sinh Ton Dong_),
Ladd Reef (_Da Lat_),
Spratly Island (_Truong Sa_ or _Truong Sa Lon_),
West Reef (_Da Tay_),
Central Reef (_Truong Sa Dong_),
East Reef (_Da Dong_),
Pearson Reef (_Phan Vinh_),
Allison Reef (_Toc Tan_),
Cornwallis South Reef (_Nui Le_),
Pigeon or Tennent Reef (_Tien Nu_),
Barque Canada Reef (_Thuyen Chai_),
Amboyna Cay (_An Bang_).
In a map (hereafter: APMSS map) attached to its 2015 _Asia-Pacific Maritime Security Strategy_, the U.S. Department of Defense (DoD) identified 34 outposts on these 21 features. An “outpost” may be as large as an island and as small as a watchtower. East Reef, for example, is counted three times because the feature has not been developed into a single artificial island but remains marked at three locations by four octagonal pillboxes, each of which covers a few hundred square meters.

Vietnam also has a similar counting system, but it identifies only 33 outposts (_diem dong quan_ or _diem dao_ in Vietnamese). Why the discrepancy? The extra outpost counted by DoD is a lighthouse on Tennent Reef. Vietnam does not view it as an outpost because no troops are stationed there – it is operated by a civilian company that belongs to the Transportation Ministry. It is unclear when this lighthouse was built, but all the other 33 Vietnamese outposts were established prior to 1989.

The APMSS map also indicates that Vietnam has 14 more outposts in the Spratly Islands. Comparing the map with what exists on the ground – or, if you prefer, the water – we can see that they are the 14 lookout structures (_nha gian_ in Vietnamese) that Vietnam is operating on six underwater banks located southwest of the Spratly Islands. Vietnam started to set up permanent structures on Vanguard Bank (Vietnamese: _Bai Tu Chinh_), Rifleman Bank (_Bai Vung May_), and Prince of Wales Bank (_Bai Phuc Tan_) in 1989, on Prince Consort Bank (_Bai Phuc Nguyen_) in 1990, and on Grainger Bank (_Bai Que Duong_) and Alexandra Bank (_Bai Huyen Tran_) in 1991. These platforms measure between 100 and 250 square meters each, and stand on shallow elevations lying between seven and 25 meters below the sea surface.

Whether these shoals form part of the Spratly Islands is a matter of debate. China’s maps group them together with the Spratlys proper while treating them as if they were landforms above water. As a result, the Chinese numbers of the Vietnamese-occupied features in the Spratly Islands range typically between 27 and 30. Vietnam argues that as the shoals lie deep under water and within 200 nautical miles (nm) from the Vietnamese baselines, they belong to Vietnam’s continental shelf and exclusive economic zone (EEZ) as stipulated in Article 76 of the UN Convention of the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS). According to UNCLOS, submarine features cannot be appropriated by occupation or otherwise.

Eleven of the Vietnamese-held features in the Spratly Islands have natural portions showing more than 100 meters long above high tide. These are Southwest Cay, South Reef, Sand Cay, Namyit Island, Sin Cowe Island, Sin Cowe East Island, Lansdowne Reef, Spratly Island, Central Reef, Pearson Reef, and Amboyna Cay. Seven other features – Petley Reef, Discovery Great Reef, Collins Reef, West Reef, East Reef, Tennent Reef, and Barque Canada Reef – reportedly have portions that are naturally above water at high tide. These features may qualify as “islands” or “rocks” and may generate territorial waters in keeping with UNCLOS. Three features – Ladd Reef, Allison Reef, and Cornwallis South Reef – may be above water only at low tide. In the language of UNCLOS, they may be called “low-tide elevations,” which are not entitled to a territorial sea, EEZ, or continental shelf.

*Philippines*

Philippine media typically reports either nine or ten Philippine-held features in the Spratly Islands. The tenth feature is Irving Reef (Filipino: _Balagtas_), which lies between Loaita Bank and West York Island. There are no structures on this reef, but unverified sources report that Philippine Navy ships take turns to guard the feature. If this is true, the status of Irving is similar to that of several other features that are watched by Chinese and Vietnamese vessels but remain unoccupied.

Given this, the nine features held by the Philippines in the Spratly Islands are:


Northeast Cay (Filipino: _Parola_),
Thitu Island (_Pag-asa_),
Loaita Cay (_Panata_),
Loaita Island (_Kota_),
West York Island (_Likas_),
Flat Island (_Patag_),
Nanshan Island (_Lawak_),
Second Thomas Shoal (_Ayungin_),
Commodore Reef (_Rizal_).
This roster disagrees with the more popular lists of the Philippine-occupied features on the location of _Panata_. Most of the Philippine sources render the English name of _Panata_ as Lankiam Cay, a tiny sand dune located 8 nm east-northeast of Loaita Island. Most of the international literature also lists Lankiam Cay and Loaita Island as the two features occupied by the Philippines in Loaita Bank. But the APMSS map shows no outpost at Lankiam Cay. Instead, it locates the second Philippine outpost in Loaita Bank at an unidentified reef northwest of Loaita Island. Some Chinese and Vietnamese sources identify this Philippine-occupied feature as Loaita Nan. However, the coordinates commonly associated with Loaita Nan (100 42.5’ N, 1140 19.5’ E) refer to the reef that forms the western edge of Loaita Bank, where no structures are visible from satellite images available in Google Maps. At the same time, small structures are visible on Loaita Cay (100 44’ N, 1140 21’ E), which might be thought of as part of Loaita Nan but actually lies east across a seven-meter deep channel. Loaita Cay is 6.5 nm northwest of Loaita Island.

Between 1970 and 1978, the Philippine moved in to occupy seven features in the Spratlys, with troops stationed on five islands. Flat Island, which lies about 6 nm north of Nanshan Island, appeared to be controlled by a garrison based at Nanshan until 2011, when some starshell-like structures were built on Flat to house a more permanent presence. A documentary produced by a local TV network in 2004 reported that only four soldiers were guarding both features from their shelters on Nanshan. A similar method appeared to be applied to the features in Loaita Bank, with Loaita Island serving as the base for the garrison until additional facility was erected on Loaita Cay. Some sources report that Lankiam Cay had a beach of more than five hectares in the past, but strong waves brought by a typhoon washed out the sandy surface of the island, leaving behind the calcarenite foundation that can be seen at low tide.

The start date of the Philippine occupation of Commodore Reef remains uncertain. Philippine troops landed on the reef in August 1980 and removed a marker that Malaysia installed there a few months before, but it is unknown whether they stayed or left after the operation. One report states that they deserted it since 1986, but it is currently occupied by a military detachment.

In 1999, the Philippines occupied Second Thomas Shoal by running the tank landing ship BRP _Sierra Madre_ aground and using it as a shelter for a small garrison. Of note, the Pentagon does not count the Philippine station on Second Thomas Shoal as an outpost, although the contrary view is prevalent in the Philippines. This shoal is also the only low-tide elevation among the features occupied by the Philippines. All the other eight are visible above water at high tide.

*Taiwan*

Itu Aba Island (Chinese: 太平島) is the only feature occupied by Taiwan in the Spratlys. It is also the largest natural land feature in the archipelago. Taiwan sometimes is said to hold two features there. This is likely to be inferred from reports of Taiwan erecting structures (in 1995 and 2004) and its officials landing (in 2003 and 2012) on Ban Than Reef. However, the best description of Ban Than’s current status is “unoccupied.” Ban Than has a beach less than 100 meters long, which lies about 2.5 nm from Itu Aba and about 4 nm from the Vietnamese-occupied Sand Cay. The Pentagon identifies no outpost on Ban Than, and no structures are visible in recent satellite images as well as photos of the reef. Sources with local knowledge told me that both Taiwanese and Vietnamese troops have occasionally planted materials on Ban Than and used them as targets for their live-fire exercises.

*China*

In the Spratly Islands, China has occupied six features since 1988 and Mischief Reef since 1995. The seven features occupied by China in the Spratly Islands are:


Subi Reef (Chinese: 渚碧礁 Zhubi Jiao),
Gaven Reef (南薰礁 Nanxun Jiao),
Hughes Reef (东门礁 Dongmen Jiao),
Johnson South Reef (赤瓜礁 Chigua Jiao),
Fiery Cross Reef (永暑礁 Yongshu Jiao),
Cuarteron Reef (华阳礁 Huayang Jiao),
Mischief Reef (美济礁 Meiji Jiao).
When the Pentagon in May 2015 said there were eight Chinese outposts in the Spratly Islands, some thought that the eighth was Eldad Reef. But the APMSS map released three months later shows two outposts on Mischief alone, and none on Eldad. This is a fact that has often been missed.

In addition, some accounts have mistakenly identified some features such as Eldad Reef, Whitsun Reef, Ladd Reef, and McKennan Reef as being occupied by China. For instance, two popular maps produced in 2015 by Reuters and AFP still reflected the incorrect information about Eldad Reef and Lankiam Cay. The mistaken status of Eldad, Whitsun, and Ladd Reefs is likely to have been inferred from reports about Vietnam protesting against Chinese troops landing on Eldad Reef in 1990, _Da Ba Dau_ in March 1992 and _Da Lac_ in July 1992. _Da Ba Dau_ was identified as the Vietnamese name for Whitsun Reef, but _Da Lac_ was mistakenly thought to be Ladd Reef (_Da Lat_ in Vietnamese), which actually was occupied by Vietnam. In fact, _Da Lac_ is the Vietnamese name for Gaven South Reef, a low-tide elevation 2 nm from Gaven Reef.

The APMSS map shows no Chinese outposts on any other reefs except the seven listed above. Some reports citing Philippine intelligence sources in June 2015 alleged that China had reclaimed land on Eldad Reef. However, separate sources with local knowledge later confirmed that Eldad as well as Whitsun, McKennan, and Gaven South Reefs remained unoccupied.

Still, the unoccupied status of these features is fragile. Both Eldad Reef and Whitsun Reef have strategic value. They form the eastern edge of two major groups in the Spratlys – Tizard Bank and Union Bank. They have also gradually “become” islands. Sailing directions prior to the mid-1990s suggest that they were low-tide elevations. But today each reef bears a 100-meter long sand dune that has reportedly grown in area and height. A smaller sand dune has also emerged on McKennan Reef, which is often confused with Hughes Reef but actually lies 1 nm west. Several stories in the Vietnamese social media suggest that Eldad, Whitsun, and McKennan are frequently sites of quiet cat-and-mouse games between China and Vietnam, one attempting to get a foothold on these ‘new islands’ while the other tries to frustrate these efforts.

A similar situation has been going on at South Luconia Shoal (Malay:_ Beting Patinggi Ali_) 84 nm off the coast of Malaysia’s Sarawak. Both Chinese and Malaysian officials have confirmed that China’s vessels have been continually present at the shoal since 2013. Intriguingly, one of the features in the shoal, Luconia Breakers (Malay: _Beting Hempasan Bantin_), appears to have changed status from a low-tide elevation to a “small island,” to use the words of Malaysia’s Minister in the Prime Minister’s Department Shahidan Kassim. Satellite images and aerial photos show a sand dune of about 70 meters in length on this feature. They also show Chinese Coast Guard vessels, shadowed by Malaysian Navy ships, anchoring near the ‘new island.’

Some scholars argue that Luconia Breakers was reclaimed into an artificial island by Malaysia sometime prior to 2009. But this argument makes little sense. As the coastal state with an EEZ over the shoal, Malaysia has a strong interest in keeping the feature submerged. A 2012 judgment by the International Court of Justice stated that “low-tide elevations cannot be appropriated.” Following from this, Luconia Breakers might be legally protected from China’s sovereignty claim if it remains a low-tide elevation.

Some have questioned whether such a rapid elevation could indeed have occurred naturally in a short period of time. But this is hardly an uncommon occurrence. The emergence of small sand dunes has been registered during the last few decades at several reefs in the Spratly Islands, with Eldad, Whitsun, McKennan, and Ban Than being some prominent examples. With the help of waves and wind, coral sediment can either form growing sand dunes or be washed away – as might be the case with Lankiam Cay – without any movements of the reef foundation.

Hydrographic evidence presented by the Philippines at the Permanent Court of Arbitration suggests that three of the seven Chinese-held features, including Fiery Cross, Cuarteron and Johnson South, have portions above water during high tide, but the other four, including Subi, Gaven, Hughes, and Mischief Reefs are low-tide elevations in their original nature before the massive land reclamation program since 2013 that turned all the seven into artificial islands.

*Malaysia*

As with the case of the Philippines, the number of Malaysian-held features in the Spratlys varies depending on how one defines occupation. Most accounts typically speak of either five or eight features. Malaysia has troops and facilities stationed on five features:


Swallow Reef (Malay: _Layang-Layang_), since 1983,
Ardasier Reef (_Ubi_), since 1986,
Mariveles Reef (_Mantanani_), since 1986,
Erica Reef (_Siput_), since 1999,
Investigator Shoal (_Peninjau_), since 1999.
Several sources also list three more features, including Dallas Reef (_Laya_), Royal Charlotte Reef (_Semarang Barat Besar_), and Louisa Reef (_Semarang Barat Kecil_), as occupied by Malaysia. However, more recent, reliable, and knowledgeable sources from Malaysia, Brunei, and the United States confirm that there are in fact no troops stationed on these three features.

Malaysia appears to “occupy” Dallas Reef in a similar way to how the Philippines did with Flat Island. Troops from nearby Ardasier Reef, which lies about 3 nm from Dallas Reef, may watch and visit the latter on a regular basis. Royal Charlotte and Louisa Reefs, on the other hand, can hardly be classified as “occupied.” While there is a beacon on Royal Charlotte, visitors report that it was inactive and there were no others structures on the reef. Visitors have also found Louisa deserted with no other structures than an obelisk-shaped beacon, which was also not working. Among these eight features, Swallow, Mariveles, Erica, Royal Charlotte, and Louisa Reefs reportedly have some natural portions protruding above high tide, while Ardasier, Dallas, and Investigator are likely low-tide elevations. The beacons on Royal Charlotte and Louisa might have been built by Malaysia in the 1980s as a means to assert sovereignty over the two reefs.

*Brunei*

The only feature in the Spratly Islands that is claimed by Brunei is Louisa Reef. According to official statements by Malaysia and Brunei, an Exchange of Letters signed in 2009 has “established the final delimitation of territorial sea, continental shelf, and exclusive economic zone” between the two countries. The agreement unequivocally states that Brunei has sovereignty over two oil blocks within which Louisa Reef is located.

Although Malaysia has not officially dropped its territorial claims over this feature, the agreement with Brunei substantially weakens Malaysia’s claims. As both Malaysia and Brunei have grounded their sovereignty claims over Louisa on the basis of coastal state rights, Malaysia’s acknowledgement of Brunei’s territorial sea, continental shelf, and EEZ is tantamount to effectively conceding Louisa Reef to Brunei. However, this appears to be a tacit understanding rather than an official agreement of any kind. The Exchange of Letters has yet to be publicized, and even if it would be made public, there would likely be no mentioning of Louisa. This is certainly the case with Limbang District, the other territorial dispute between Brunei and Malaysia.

For all the attention that has been focused on the South China Sea disputes, there is still little clarity on some basic realities such as who owns what. As Bill Hayton has demonstrated, much of the literature relies on historical accounts that “use unreliable bases from which to write reliable histories.” It is hoped that this article is a step in the right direction towards lifting the thick veil that often conceals the truth about these disputes.

_Alexander L. Vuving is Professor at the Daniel K. Inouye Asia-Pacific Center for Security Studies. The views expressed in this article are his own and do not reflect those of the U.S. Government, the U.S. Department of Defense, and the Asia-Pacific Center._


----------



## sicsheep

*How Low Oil Prices Hamstring Vietnam in the South China Sea Disputes*

Falling oil prices are usually analyzed from an economic point of view; Vietnam is no exception. Myriad domestic and international articles have provided in-depth analysis of the “double-edged” effects that falling oil prices might have on Vietnam’s GDP. The Voice of Vietnam concluded that “falling oil prices’ negative effects might be offset by well-planned economic strategies, which can turn adversity into opportunities for Vietnam economy.”

However, economic impacts are not the only dangers posed by rock-bottom oil prices for Vietnam. Low oil prices also have non-negligible geopolitical implications – including on the strength of Vietnam’s position in the South China Sea.

The top geopolitical concern for the Vietnamese government is well-known to be the South China Sea dispute, and particularly China’s maneuvers in the region. As a small nation next to the great power (in terms of both population size and international influence) of China, Vietnam has little ability to balance China on its own. The ASEAN community is too fragmented and divided in its individual national interests to stay united against China. And neither the United States nor Russia is close or sincere enough for Vietnam to wholeheartedly rely upon. The old era of the Communist bloc has long since passed; the current Russian Federation greatly values its comprehensive strategic partnership with China. The United States, meanwhile, seems reluctant to take concrete steps to counter China’s rising influence. Given the reality of the current international and regional order, Vietnam’s only realistic choice is to be self-reliant and make use of the multi-polar balance in the international arena.

For the purposes of this balancing, Vietnam generally prefers a stronger Russia, a weaker China, and less anti-Russian America. That combination provides Vietnam a better negotiating position on the South China Sea disputes. The underlying logic is that the better the balance of power among the United States, Russia, and China, the less power China has, and consequently the relatively greater bargaining power Vietnam can get. Unfortunately, low oil prices have effectively driven the balance away from Vietnam’s interests; today we are seeing a weaker Russia, a stronger China, and a strongly anti-Russian America.

First of all, the falling oil prices have not only reduced Russia’s bargaining position in the international arena but also pushed Russia to depend more on Chinese cash. It’s possible weakening Russia through oil prices was intentional — a strategic move by the United States to render Russia helpless right after the economic sanctions from the West to punish Russian aggression in Crimea. “It’s time to drive Russia bankrupt – again,” read the headline for a 2014 Forbes piece by Louis Woodhill. “We should do to Russia what Ronald Reagan did to its predecessor, the old Soviet Union,” Woodhill argues. “We should drive them into bankruptcy by stabilizing the U.S. dollar” – and thereby driving down oil prices.

It is obviously not a coincidence that this history is repeating itself. In 1983, the notorious oil glut effectively pressed the oil price down from an annual average of $35 per barrel in 1980 to around $14 in 1986. One of the main causes was Reagan allowing oil prices in the United States to be decided by the free market and increasing American oil production. Again, in 2014, with Russia and the United States at odds over Crimea, Washington announced the possibility of increasing production.

Since then, oil prices have plummeted from over $100 a barrel to around $30. The decline in oil prices drove the Russian economy into the corner. According to estimates from the International Monetary Fund, Russia’s GDP shrank by 3.7 percent in 2015, and is projected to contract a further 1 percent in 2016. This constrained economic capacity has consequently harmed Moscow’s political influence.

It has also boosted China’s clout in the Sino-Russian relationship. Eager for more customers, Russia had to rush into the potentially non-profitable “Power of Siberia” pipeline with China in 2014. The gas deal with China, worth $400 billion, provides an alternative market for Russian energy exports.

Russia’s own problem with Crimea and the current economic doldrums has blocked Moscow from taking any definitive stand on the South China Sea disputes. In contrast to the tangible support given to China’s neighbor during the Sino-Soviet split — Soviet military advisers were stationed in Vietnam during the Sino-Vietnamese war, while Soviet troops massed at the Sino-Soviet border and Mongolian-Chinese border – Russia’s policy on the South China Sea disputes has been described as “non-existent.” A weakened and dependent Russia, the result of falling oil prices, is not encouraging for Vietnam’s status in South China Sea Dispute.

Furthermore, the drop in oil prices has strengthened China’s bargaining position as a regional price maker. China ranks third in global gas consumption and second in oil consumption. The falling oil prices lessen the burden on production costs and might help save China from its economic woes. The current oil surplus, and the resulting low prices, benefit China as a global producer and consumer. China stands to gain from the falling oil prices and this is against Vietnam’s geopolitical interests in the South China Sea dispute.

The United States, on the other hand, is busy designing her own game of power in the Asia-Pacific. U.S. moves to provide financial aid for the ASEAN countries in strengthening their marine defense capacity (the Southeast Asia Maritime Security Initiative, or MSI) and have American ships guarding the Asia-Pacific are welcomed by all the nations involved, including Vietnam. However, from Vietnam’s geopolitical perspective, the U.S. position has not been as beneficial as desired.

It is important to remember that Vietnam is under the leadership of the Communist Party, which has unerasable links with the Russian Federation and remains trapped in a relationship with Communist China. For this reason, while rhetorically declaring support for Vietnam, the United States has chosen the Philippines to be its strategic partner instead. The American preference is shown in numbers, with the Philippines receiving $41 million dollars while Vietnam will receive only $2 million dollars in the MSI package. Meanwhile, the absence of Russia in the South China Sea disputes, due in part to the falling oil prices, fits with the U.S. desire to exclude Russian influence, but it is contrary to Vietnam’s geopolitical interest. An anti-Russia United States is not good for Vietnam’s standing in the South China Sea disputes.

In short, the falling price of oil has more than just economic implications for Vietnam. By assessing carefully the effect of the oil surplus on the balance of power among China, Russia, and the United States, the threats for Vietnam geopolitically become more visible. Of course, a strong Russia does not automatically translate to a constraint on Chinese aggression or balance against American activeness in the South China Sea dispute. Yet a strong Russia will at least contribute to better maintaining what Henry Kissinger has called a “global equilibrium” with “a greater harmony of values” compared to the weak and dependent Russia of today. Following such logic, the falling oil prices are having a detrimental effect on Vietnam’s geopolitical interests in the increasingly intense South China Sea dispute.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## CCP



Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## yusheng

近日，有网友曝出了永暑岛5月12日和4月21日对比图。可以清晰的看出，5月12日的最新卫星照比4月21日的卫星图疑似多了三个机库!不得不感叹：这就是“中国速度”啊!（鸣谢：南海研究论坛 a缺钱不缺德a）





　　 
　　图为永暑岛4月20日合成孔径雷达成像图。（鸣谢：南海研究论坛 小鱼尔）





　　

　　图为永暑岛5月12日合成孔径雷达成像图。（鸣谢：南海研究论坛 小鱼尔）





　　

　　有网友也发布了4月21日永暑岛的最新卫星图，可以看到永暑岛的码头停靠了疑似054A护卫舰和大型补给舰各一艘!图为2016-04-21 永暑岛 DS超高清卫星图。（鸣谢：南海研究论坛 戒急用忍）





　　

　　图为2016-04-21 永暑岛 DS超高清卫星图。（鸣谢：南海研究论坛 戒急用忍）





　　 
　　有网友也发布了4月21日永暑岛的最新卫星图，可以看到永暑岛的码头停靠了疑似054A护卫舰和大型补给舰各一艘!图为2016-04-21 永暑岛 DS超高清卫星图。（鸣谢：南海研究论坛 戒急用忍）





　　 
　　疑似054A护卫舰和大型补给舰现身永暑岛港口。（鸣谢：南海研究论坛 戒急用忍）

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## yusheng

4月21日永暑岛的最新卫星图，可以看到永暑岛的码头停靠了疑似054A护卫舰和大型补给舰各一艘!图为2016-04-21 永暑岛 DS超高清卫星图。（鸣谢：南海研究论坛 戒急用忍）







　　岛礁上已经建好了数座小楼，马路上还划设了斑马线，还有塑胶跑道等活动设施，港池已经投入使用。图为2016-04-21 永暑岛 DS超高清卫星图。（鸣谢：南海研究论坛 戒急用忍）





　　 
　　岛礁此前只有个巴掌大的哨所，如今既有居住区又有娱乐区，还有港口和机场，俨然已经成了个小城市。图为2016-04-21 永暑岛 DS超高清卫星图。（鸣谢：南海研究论坛 戒急用忍）





　　 
　　可以看到永暑岛的码头停靠了疑似054A护卫舰和大型补给舰各一艘!图为2016-04-21 永暑岛 DS超高清卫星图。（鸣谢：南海研究论坛 戒急用忍）





　　 
　　图为网友发布的永暑岛高清局部照。（鸣谢：南海研究论坛 a缺钱不缺德a）





　　 
　　图为网友发布的永暑岛高清局部照。（鸣谢：南海研究论坛 a缺钱不缺德a）





　　 
　　图为网友发布的永暑岛高清局部照。（鸣谢：南海研究论坛 a缺钱不缺德a）





　　 
　　图为网友发布的永暑岛高清局部照。（鸣谢：南海研究论坛 a缺钱不缺德a）

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## yusheng

图为网友发布的永暑岛高清局部照。（鸣谢：南海研究论坛 a缺钱不缺德a）





　　 
　　图为网友发布的永暑岛高清局部照。（鸣谢：南海研究论坛 a缺钱不缺德a）





　　 
　　近日央视媒体曝光轰6K赴西太演习，穿越第一岛链的画面，画面中有疑似穿越南沙的镜头，注意右下角的疑似为永暑岛工地。





　　 
　　4月17日上午，一架正在南海执行空中巡逻任务的海军巡逻机，紧急飞赴南沙，降落永暑礁机场，将李万美等三名重病工人转运至海南三亚425医院接受救治。这也是“首次官泄南沙永暑岛街景与机场”。





　　 
　　图为永暑岛2016年3月6日高清卫星图。（鸣谢：南海研究论坛 simwong）





　　 
　　永暑礁是中国南沙群岛的一个环形珊瑚礁，地理位置优越，战略价值高。中国官方证实已经在该岛礁进行相关建设，建造了飞机跑道，并进行了试飞。图为永暑岛2016年3月6日高清卫星图，疑似为楼层建筑。（鸣谢：南海研究论坛 我心中的大海）





　　 
　　马路上的斑马线清晰可见，由此可以推测岛礁上未来驻扎的人数不会少，不然根本不需要这些辅助交通的设施。





　　 
　　跑道尽头有一片绿色的区域，疑似已经开始开始初步绿化。虽说现在后勤补给越来越好了，种菜相对少了，但是可以搞绿化啊，总之勤劳的中国人不爱“闲着”。如今南沙有了这么大一块土地，想必岛上的人们又有的忙了。





　　 
　　之前的永暑礁碉堡哨所跑个步只能绕着半个篮球场绕圈，现在光飞行跑道就有3公里长，还有塑胶跑道、足球场、篮球场、网球场，让你一次活动个够。

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## yusheng

岛礁建设主要是为了“方便民用”，因此必须有个灯塔。





　　 
　　港池有多大？连大型工程船在里面都显得像小虾米……

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

wow that I call piece of art to build such island. China must have spend a lot of money to do that

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## cirr

Yongxingdao Island

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## cirr



Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## SBUS-CXK

LacViet said:


> What Xi Jinping would like to do, ís same what Kim Jungun did. Both is princeling.


Vietnam, for example, when the invasion of Thailand, Laos, Cambodia do?? As in Germany, there is no war restraint. What is the difference between the Viet cong with Nazi? ... Facts have proven that indosinian federal ambition cannot be achieved.


----------



## Globenim

cirr said:


>



Ha... I remember some armchair "thinktank" kids laughing at me about a year ago for suggesting catamaran types will likely see use use in the South China Sea, because it would be "too far away from the shores" or something like that and China could only project power close to its shores and the navy would be underpoweredin the SCS.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## bobsm

*Many Arab nations back China's stance on South China Sea *

MENAFN - The Journal Of Turkish Weekly - 14/05/2016 

China's stance on the South China Sea is backed by many Arab countries, which expressed staunch support for Beijing's efforts to settle the issue peacefully. 

In a statement issued at the 7th Ministerial Meeting of China-Arab Cooperation Forum, the participating Arab countries said they support China's efforts to peacefully resolve territorial and maritime differences with certain nations through friendly dialogue and negotiation. 

They also stressed that the rights of sovereign nations as well as the U.N. Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) signatories to choose how to solve their disputes should be respected. 

Earlier,Arab LeagueSecretary-General Nabil al-Araby made a similar statement at a joint press conference with Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi and Qatari Foreign Minister Sheikh Mohammed Bin Abdulrahman Bin Jassim Al-Thani. 

He said both the Arab world and China will continue to support each other on issues concerning their respective core interests. 

On Thursday, Sudanese Foreign Minister Ibrahim Ghandour also expressed the country's support for China's stance on this issue while meeting with Wang after the ministerial conference. 

Ghandour stressed Sudan's firm stance on the issue of the South China Sea, backing China's legitimate rights in preserving territorial integrity and sovereignty. 

While meeting Wang at the sidelines of the conference, Dr. Nizar Bin Obaid Madani, Minister of State for Foreign Affairs of Saudi Arabia, said his country appreciates China's adherence to peaceful means in settling dispes concerning the South China Sea. 

In Doha, Wang held separate meetings on Wednesday with Abdelkader Messahel, Algerian Minister of Maghreb Affairs, high-profile officials of theAfrican Unionand the Arab League as well as his Lebanese counterpart Joubran Bassil,Yemeni Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Abdulmalik al-Mekhlafi. 

During their meeting, Wang briefed Messahel on the historical facts about, and China's principled position on, the South China Sea issue. 

Messahel said Algeria fully understands and supports China's position on the issue, and supports the settlement of relevant disputes through direct dialogue. 

Bassil expressed support for China's position on the South China Sea, and Mekhlafi also expressed support for China's just position on the issue. 

Manila unilaterally initiated an arbitration case against China over the maritime disputes at an international tribunal in The Hague in early 2013 under the UNCLOS. 

China insists that the South China Sea disputes should be resolved peacefully through negotiation between the parties directly concerned. 

Wang said last month that China is exercising its legitimate right to reject a compulsory arbitration, adding that thePhilippines' attempt to pressure China over an arbitration of maritime disputes is "either political arrogance or legal prejudice." 

Under Article 4 of the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea, signed by China and ASEAN countries, the disputes should be resolved through consultations and negotiations by parties directly concerned.



http://www.menafn.com/1094764712/Many-Arab-nations-back-Chinas-stance-on-South-China-Sea

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cnleio

Light in SCS night

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## ahojunk

Ha, ha, before anyone else get overly excited, .....

-----------------------
Military drills in SE China not aimed at specific targets: defense ministry
2016-05-18 15:57 | Xinhua _| Editor: Gu Liping_

Military drills China has been staging in its southeast recently are not aimed at any specific target, the Ministry of National Defense said on Wednesday, in response to media reports of a ramping-up of such training exercises.

"The drills are routine arrangements according to the annual training plan," according to a statement from the ministry's information bureau. "They are designed to test and improve troops' capabilities of dealing with security threats and accomplishing military missions."

It said the drills should not be "over-interpreted."

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## BoQ77

*Two Chinese fighter jets flew within 50 feet of Navy recon plane over South China Sea, Pentagon says *

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Wednesday, May 18, 2016, 8:06 PM

WASHINGTON — The Pentagon says two Chinese fighter jets flew within about 50 feet of a U.S. Navy reconnaissance plane Tuesday in international airspace over the South China Sea.

The Pentagon characterized the incident as an unsafe intercept and said it is being reviewed.

A U.S. military official says the two Chinese J-11 fighters flew out to intercept the U.S. EP-3 Aries aircraft and came so close that they forced the pilot to descend a couple hundred feet in order to avoid a collision. The U.S. surveillance plane was conducting routine operations in the region.

The official says the incident took place in the northern part of the sea, south of Hong Kong. The official was not authorized to discuss details of the incident publicly, so spoke on condition of anonymity.


----------



## Soryu

cnleio said:


> China island vs Vietnam island
> 
> View attachment 304176



So you call this is: Island vs "Island" ???

Yeah, you're just reach a new level of bullshjt cnleio, mere rock vs Island to correct.


----------



## cirr

Types 818 and 718, a new wave of shipbuilding for CCG is coming






Watch out!

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## cirr

12000-ton CCG 2901 docked in Sanya，Hainan Island






Surprise it is CCG 2901， not its sistership 3901.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Jason Zhao

I have to say, crazy all of you.......what you are talking about..............


----------



## ahojunk

Japan's South China Sea Maneuvering at G7 Summit A 'Clumsy Show'
2016-05-27 12:15:17 China Daily Web Editor: Guo Jing

Japan's continuous meddling in the South China Sea is a "clumsy show" that goes against not only the interests of the G7, but also the peace and security of the South China Sea region, a Foreign Ministry official said on Wednesday.

Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying made the remarks in a news conference after reports that Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe is expected to bring up the South China Sea issue when meeting with United States President Barack Obama in Japan on Wednesday.

It's also reported that the G7 summit declaration will include the "three principles of rule of law" on solving maritime territorial disputes, which Abe brought up in 2014.

Hua described moves by Japan as "petty shrewdness" by taking advantage of its status as the host of the G7, while the summit should focus on global economic governance and cooperation.

Hua reiterated that China's activities in the South China Sea are totally justified and lawful, and the country has the right to, and must, guard its legitimate interests.

"For some time, Japan has kept hyping the South China Sea issue, sparing no effort to stir up trouble everywhere… It's just another clumsy show by Japan. I believe everybody has a clear-headed understanding of it," Hua said.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## hirobo2

ahojunk said:


> Japan's South China Sea Maneuvering at G7 Summit A 'Clumsy Show'
> 2016-05-27 12:15:17 China Daily Web Editor: Guo Jing
> 
> Japan's continuous meddling in the South China Sea is a "clumsy show" that goes against not only the interests of the G7, but also the peace and security of the South China Sea region, a Foreign Ministry official said on Wednesday.
> 
> Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying made the remarks in a news conference after reports that Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe is expected to bring up the South China Sea issue when meeting with United States President Barack Obama in Japan on Wednesday.
> 
> It's also reported that the G7 summit declaration will include the "three principles of rule of law" on solving maritime territorial disputes, which Abe brought up in 2014.
> 
> Hua described moves by Japan as "petty shrewdness" by taking advantage of its status as the host of the G7, while the summit should focus on global economic governance and cooperation.
> 
> Hua reiterated that China's activities in the South China Sea are totally justified and lawful, and the country has the right to, and must, guard its legitimate interests.
> 
> "For some time, Japan has kept hyping the South China Sea issue, sparing no effort to stir up trouble everywhere… It's just another clumsy show by Japan. I believe everybody has a clear-headed understanding of it," Hua said.



Lol, Japan, Japan... They're just being sourpusses for thinking China caused them to lose the Aussie sub deal to the French. The little brother trying to get back at the big brother... Just a big show of immaturity.

The only thing Japan is/was ever good at is tech. Even then this will be questionable in the near future as China leads advances in science.

The Japanese were never good at anything else, and that includes politics and strategic planning, which is why they lost most of the lands they "conquered" during their past expansionist regime, and their national birth rate is at an all time low...

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## BoQ77

cnleio said:


> China island vs Vietnam island
> 
> View attachment 304176



This post expressed the real thing.
1. There isnt any natural island there until last year. ONLY submerged reefs. Both look the same.

2. Vietnam doesnt make change to the reef they occupied, while China proceeded the submerged reef to fake island.

In brief,
Before, After
Vietnam : Reef with watch tower >> Unchanged
China : Reef with watch tower >> Massive land reclamation >> Fake island

Legal aspect, both is still reefs not any island


----------



## cnleio

BoQ77 said:


> This post expressed the real thing.
> 1. There isnt any natural island there until last year. ONLY submerged reefs. Both look the same.
> 
> 2. Vietnam doesnt make change to the reef they occupied, while China proceeded the submerged reef to fake island.
> 
> In brief,
> Before, After
> Vietnam : Reef with watch tower >> Unchanged
> China : Reef with watch tower >> Massive land reclamation >> Fake island
> 
> Legal aspect, both is still reefs not any island


Vietnam also made changes to the reef occupied by urself ... but not good at it (lack tools & skills). Just as we knew Vietnam isn't the China, in SCS not get the same effect. MAN vs MACHINE, different result in SCS !

Vietnam side building the island in SCS:




















China side building the island in SCS:

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## cnleio

@BoQ77 ... one thing we should admit both doing the same thing in SCS, but it's the typical MAN vs MACHINE Game. 

MAN: Vietnamese doing your best














MACHINE: Chinese doing our best

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## BoQ77

What I see, Vietnam make the breakwater, not "producing fake island" and ruin the reefs like China

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cnleio

BoQ77 said:


> What I see, Vietnam make the breakwater, not "producing fake island" and ruin the reefs like China


Like i said, Vietnam already did (building island in SCS, not only the breakwater) ... anyways compared with China doing, it's less effect in there.
















Vietnam is not the China, not as same as the effect. U just deny the truth.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## ahojunk

China sets four bottom lines regarding the South China Sea disputes
By Yuan Can (People's Daily Online) 17:13, May 27, 2016






China's Ministries of Foreign Affairs and National Defense announced on Thursday four bottom lines on issues related to the South China Sea.

*Bottom line 1: China will never accept the arbitration on the South China Sea no matter what kind of ruling the International Tribunal makes.*

Although the International Tribunal may make an official ruling in the coming weeks, both China's Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Ministry of National Defense stressed on Thursday that China will neither accept nor recognize the adjudication.

The Foreign Affairs Ministry has said that the choice of the Philippines to unilaterally initiate arbitration was little more than political provocation. The Philippines does not actually aim to settle the dispute this way; instead, they are attempting to deny China's territorial sovereignty and maritime interests.

*Bottom line 2: The U.S. should stop close-in reconnaissance.*

In recent years, U.S. military ships and aircraft have frequently conducted reconnaissance in China's coastal areas. These operations seriously threaten China's air and maritime security.

According to China's Defense Ministry, a U.S. reconnaissance plane EP-3 flew close to the airspace of China’s Hainan Island on May 17. Two Chinese military aircraft conducted identification and verification in accordance with relevant regulations.

It is not difficult to tell who is actually challenging the region's stability. Yang Yujun, spokesperson of China's Ministry of National Defense, said, "We urge [interfering countries] to stop sowing seeds of discord so as to maintain peace and stability in the South China Sea, which is in the common interest of all parties."

*Bottom line 3: The South China Sea disputes are not the business of G7 and its members.*

Informed that Donald Tusk, president of the European Council, said on Thursday that G7 should make a clear statement on the South China Sea disputes, Foreign Ministry spokesperson Hua Chunying said that some countries are trying to take advantage of the summit. The South China Sea issue is none of the business of G7 and its members. Hua urged those participating in G7 to refocus and refrain from poking their noses into matters beyond their authority.

*Bottom line 4: Any attempt to undermine China’s sovereign rights through intimidation or other means is doomed to fail.*

At a press conference on May 25, Hua Chunying said that China is in the right when it comes to upholding territorial sovereignty and preserving its legitimate rights in the South China Sea. Many members of the international community support China's position on the disputes.

"It is ridiculous to accuse China of attempting to seek regional hegemony," said Tayeb Abdul Rahim, general secretary of the Palestinian Authority’s executive committee, in an interview recently.

Hua explained that many Western media reports have falsely stated that the countries who back China on the South China Sea issue are small, poor and inconsequential. This statement is blatantly arrogant, prejudiced and snobbish. Hua emphasized that it is preposterous to dismiss the legitimate stance of a country based on its size and wealth. The truth is, many different countries sympathize with and endorse China's position on the issue.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## cirr

CCG 46301（Type 818）launched on this day at HP

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## cirr

CCG 46111（Type 718？？）closely follows 






Let's make dozens of these new generation CCG vessels

Let's not stop till the SCS is over-crowded with these beauties。

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## ahojunk

Laos urges bilateral talks on South China Sea rows
May 29, 2016 1:15 am JST

TOKYO -- Echoing China's stance, Laotian Prime Minister Thongloun Sisoulith on Saturday called for South China Sea disputes to be resolved through bilateral talks between the countries concerned.





Thongloun Sisoulith

Thongloun said in an interview with The Nikkei that he will "urge the countries concerned to hold dialogues toward the peaceful settlement" of territorial rows, in an apparent reference to the Philippines and Vietnam.

Thongloun's remarks are significant as Laos holds this year's rotating chairmanship of the 10-member Association of Southeast Asian Nations.

Several ASEAN nations, including the Philippines and Vietnam, are locked in territorial disputes with China in the South China Sea. China's creation of artificial islands for military purposes has drawn particularly strong backlashes from the Philippines and Vietnam.

"As chair of ASEAN, Laos will make efforts to create a favorable environment for positive dialogue among countries concerned," Thongloun said. He also said Laos will urge countries to refrain from any actions that could further raise tensions.

Thongloun, who took office in April, visited Japan to attend the Outreach Meeting of the G-7 Ise-Shima summit, in Mie Prefecture, on Friday.

At the Outreach Meeting, Thongloun and leaders from several other developing countries in Asia and Africa joined their counterparts from major industrialized countries.

The Philippines and Vietnam, which find it difficult to counter China's aggressive maritime advancement into the South China Sea on their own, have asked their fellow ASEAN nations to form a united front on the issue.

The Philippines also has taken the dispute to an arbitration court in the Netherlands. The Hague-based Permanent Court of Arbitration expects a ruling soon.

The Philippines is asking other ASEAN nations to issue a joint declaration in response to the ruling, in a show of unity over the issue.

But Thongloun showed a cautious stance about issuing such a document, saying ASEAN nations should make a decision on the matter "carefully while taking into account the situation."

The 10 ASEAN nations are split over whether to issue a joint declaration, with some, including Singapore, being positive about the idea while others, including Cambodia, remain opposed to it.

Cambodia and Laos have close economic relations with China.

Thongloun noted that ASEAN operates by consensus. As things stand now, it is not easy for the ASEAN nations to issue the kind of joint declaration demanded by the Philippines.

Thongloun also disclosed that Laos is now considering joining the Trans-Pacific Partnership. The trade pact, recently signed but not ratified, is to create a huge economic zone among the U.S., Japan and 10 other Pacific Rim countries.

He said Laos is "conducting a study with interest" to see what benefits TPP membership would bring to the country.

The TPP's four ASEAN members are: Singapore, Malaysia, Vietnam and Brunei. The Philippines, Indonesia and Thailand have shown interest in joining the TPP.

Thongloun apparently believes TPP membership would help boost Laotian exports to non-ASEAN countries. But signing on could also adversely impact the Laotian economy.

Laos remains impoverished and heavily dependent on agriculture. As a TPP member, it would be required to take painful steps to significantly open its domestic markets to foreign competition.

The Laotian government will likely take its time in making a decision on the matter.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ahojunk

New Taiwan Leadership Takes Tough Stance On Disputed South China Sea
Ralph Jennings, Contributor
May 31, 2016 @ 01:21 AM

Taiwan under a new political party will extend its Teflon stance on claims to almost the entire 3.5 million-square-kilometer South China Sea, despite bigger and more diplomatically connected rivals, and renew calls for joint use of resource-rich waters. That position explained Tuesday by the 11-day-old government of President Tsai Ing-wen will delight a so-far suspicious China but keep Southeast Asian countries on alert.

The government of President Tsai Ing-wen will stick to a 60-year-old claim over the ocean between its southwest coast and Singapore, a foreign ministry official said. Taiwan will also maintain a presence on a major islet under its control and promote maritime resource sharing among claimants, foreign ministry spokesperson Eleanor Wang said Tuesday.





_A member of Taiwan’s coast guard speaks as he guides visiting journalists on Taiping island in the Spratlys chain in the South China Sea on March 23, 2016. (SAM YEH/AFP/Getty Images)_

An extension of the high-visibility maritime claim embraced by outgoing president Ma Ying-jeou means Taiwan will regularly remind the world, particularly aggressive fellow claimants Vietnam and the Philippines, that it owns the ocean. It will also keep functional control of coast guard-fortified Taiping Island, the sea’s largest natural land feature at 1,400 meters long, a nearby sandbar and the Dongsha archipelago closer to Taiwan proper. And Taiwanese officials will keep suggesting peaceful sharing of marine resources such as fisheries, oil and natural gas. 

“These are the Republic of China’s historic lands and maritime territories,” Wang told a news briefing, using Taiwan’s legal name. “Under international law, this position is indisputable.”

Taiwan has used “all sorts of means recently” to show other countries its use of the embattled Taiping Island, she added. “In the future the government will go in this direction to promote (Taiping) as a peaceful and ecological islet,” Wang said. “In the future what we want to emphasize is peaceful, cooperative and mutual development. That is, maritime disputes should be set aside and peaceful means should be used to work together on development.”

The ex-president traveled himself to Taiping in January and earlier in his term suggested a peace initiative that involved sharing marine resources. His Nationalist Party developed the historical basis for the full ocean claim when it ruled all of China before a civil war that sent it fleeing to Taiwan in 1940s. Tsai is backed by the Nationalists’ chief rival, the Democratic Progressive Party.

Other claimants worry more about China than Taiwan. Beijing officials have angered them by using landfill to expand other natural islets by a cumulative 3,000 acres, per researcher estimates. It has also authorized oil drilling in contested areas and let fishing boats range as far as waters claimed by Indonesia. The historical basis for its claim to the whole ocean prompted the Philippines to file for U.N. arbitration, and a court is due to rule any time on that case.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## TaiShang

ahojunk said:


> Japan's South China Sea Maneuvering at G7 Summit A 'Clumsy Show'
> 2016-05-27 12:15:17 China Daily Web Editor: Guo Jing
> 
> Japan's continuous meddling in the South China Sea is a "clumsy show" that goes against not only the interests of the G7, but also the peace and security of the South China Sea region, a Foreign Ministry official said on Wednesday.
> 
> Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying made the remarks in a news conference after reports that Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe is expected to bring up the South China Sea issue when meeting with United States President Barack Obama in Japan on Wednesday.
> 
> It's also reported that the G7 summit declaration will include the "three principles of rule of law" on solving maritime territorial disputes, which Abe brought up in 2014.
> 
> Hua described moves by Japan as "petty shrewdness" by taking advantage of its status as the host of the G7, while the summit should focus on global economic governance and cooperation.
> 
> Hua reiterated that China's activities in the South China Sea are totally justified and lawful, and the country has the right to, and must, guard its legitimate interests.
> 
> "For some time, Japan has kept hyping the South China Sea issue, sparing no effort to stir up trouble everywhere… It's just another clumsy show by Japan. I believe everybody has a clear-headed understanding of it," Hua said.



Japan better needs to explain its crazy EEZ on a piece of submerged rock called Okinotorishima "Island" before lecturing others on how to follow international law.

It is very obvious that it is power that matters, not some words on a piece of paper.



BoQ77 said:


> This post expressed the real thing.
> 1. There isnt any natural island there until last year. ONLY submerged reefs. Both look the same.
> 
> 2. Vietnam doesnt make change to the reef they occupied, while China proceeded the submerged reef to fake island.
> 
> In brief,
> Before, After
> Vietnam : Reef with watch tower >> Unchanged
> China : Reef with watch tower >> Massive land reclamation >> Fake island
> 
> Legal aspect, both is still reefs not any island



The problem is not that your government had a sense of fairness, but only that it lacked capacity. Do not blame your incapacity on others.

The reality is, your fake islands are comical.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cochine

.
*Vietnam Arms Embargo to Be Fully Lifted, Obama Says in Hanoi*
MAY 23, 2016


HANOI, Vietnam — The United States is rescinding a decades-old ban on sales of lethal military equipment to announced at a news conference in Hanoi on Monday, ending one of the last legal vestiges of the Vietnam War.

The United States has long made lifting the embargo contingent on Vietnam’s improving its human rights record, and recently administration officials had hinted that the ban could be removed partly in response to China’s buildup in the South China Sea.

But Mr. Obama portrayed the decision as part of the long process of normalizing relations between the two countries after the Vietnam War.

“The decision to lift the ban was not based on China or any other considerations,” he said, with the Vietnamese president, Tran Dai Quang, standing stiffly by his side. “It was based on our desire to complete what has been a lengthy process of moving toward normalization with Vietnam.”

Mr. Obama insisted that the move should not be interpreted as carte blanche for weapons sales to Vietnam and that the United States would review future arms sales to “examine what’s appropriate and what’s not,” as it does with any country.

As for human rights, he said, “this is an area where we still have differences.”

Human rights advocates, who had asked Mr. Obama to hold off on lifting the ban until Vietnam had released some prominent political prisoners and promised to stop the police beatings of protesters, condemned the decision.

“President Obama just gave Vietnam a reward that they don’t deserve,” said John Sifton, the Asia policy director of Human Rights Watch.

Mr. Quang defended his country’s rights record.

“The consistent position and viewpoint of the Vietnamese government is to protect and promote human rights,” he said, adding, “Those achievements have been highly recognized and appreciated by the international community.”

American officials have portrayed lifting the embargo as part of a strategy to help Vietnam defend itself against an increasing threat from China in the South China Sea. Analysts have speculated that in return, Vietnam would grant the United States access to the deepwater port at Cam Ranh Bay.

While there were no statements about such a deal on Monday, Mr. Obama did announce new commercial agreements worth more than $16 billion, including one in which Boeing will sell 100 aircraft and Pratt & Whitney will sell 135 advanced aircraft engines to VietJet Air, a privately owned low-cost airline.

Analysts said, however, that the potential market for new military contracts with Vietnam was likely to be limited in the near term.
Mr. Obama said that improved ties with Vietnam made sense for the United States, since it was a fast-growing country in one of the fastest-growing regions of the world.

He predicted that the Trans-Pacific Partnership, a trade deal among 12 nations, including Vietnam, that has very little chance of passing Congress before the November election, would someday become law. All three remaining presidential candidates oppose it.

Mr. Obama’s visit was part of an effort by Vietnam to recalibrate its relationship with China, its giant neighbor in the north. China remains Vietnam’s largest trading partner and an ideological ally, but the two countries have sparred over Beijing’s claims to waters off Vietnam’s coast in the South China Sea.

Since 2014, when China placed an oil rig in waters near the Paracel Islands, which Vietnam claims, Hanoi has repeatedly asked Washington for the freedom to buy American lethal weapons. The United States partly relaxed the ban two years ago, allowing the purchase of nonlethal equipment for maritime defense.

China’s reaction to the decision on Monday was subdued.

“The arms embargo is a product of the Cold War and should never have existed,” Hua Chunying, a spokeswoman for the Foreign Ministry, said during a news briefing in Beijing. “We welcome normal relations between Vietnam and the United States.”

But beneath the polite response are deep concerns in Beijing about the intentions of Vietnam. And Vietnam, while seeking to defend itself from China, is unlikely to completely sever itself from China’s orbit.

In a sign of the complexities of the relationship, the Chinese ambassador to Vietnam, Hong Xiaoyong, met last Thursday with Vietnam’s defense minister, Ngo Xuan Lich, in Hanoi. Both sides pledged to strengthen military ties, said Xinhua, the Chinese news agency.

The lifting of the arms embargo comes at a particularly sensitive time for China. The government is running a high-pitched diplomatic campaign criticizing a pending arbitration ruling on the South China Sea. China argues that a United Nations tribunal has no right to make a ruling in the case, which the Philippines brought against China.

Vietnam has loudly backed the right of the Philippines to take its case to the tribunal.

Mr. Obama also announced on Monday that the two sides had formalized an agreement to allow the opening of Fulbright University Vietnam in Ho Chi Minh City, the first independent university in Vietnam in which the government would have no formal role.

The university’s chairman, Bob Kerrey, a former Nebraska senator and a Vietnam veteran who lost part of a leg in combat, said the university could start teaching undergraduates in the autumn of 2017.

Mr. Obama also said that Peace Corps volunteers would be posted to Vietnam for the first time.

Earlier in the morning, Mr. Obama was whisked through Hanoi’s streets for a highly choreographed arrival ceremony at the Presidential Palace. His route was lined with children waving small American and Vietnamese flags.

The president later had dinner with Anthony Bourdain, the host of a CNN program.


----------



## bobsm

*US taking advantage of South China Sea dispute: Analyst*



*The United States and its allies are exploiting the South China Sea dispute to increase their military presence and fuel unrest in the Asia Pacific region, a former American intelligence linguist says.*

“There has been many disputes in the area and certainly foreign nations have taken advantage of the resources in the region when it comes to fishing, oil and gas exploration,” Scott Rickard told Press TV on Tuesday.

*“China is not violating any international law and is absolutely setting up a deterrent, a forward [operating] base, in defense of their country because of the aggressive nature of not only the United States but other NATO allies that have controlled the international waters for over 500 years,” Rickard said.*

The United States has dramatically increased its military maneuvers across the South China Sea over the past months, prompting angry protests from China and Russia who accuse Washington of fueling unrest in the Asia Pacific region.

Military activity has become the “new normal” in US-Pacific relations and is meant to counter efforts by Beijing and Moscow and show “military superiority” in the increasingly crowded and competitive region, ABC News said in a report on Tuesday.

“We're for freedom of navigation and following the rules, and to an extent we are pushing back against changing the rules,” said Derek Chollet, a former assistant defense secretary for international affairs.

The United States is concerned that China is extending its military reach in the South China Sea by developing man-made islands to accommodate military airfields and weapons systems. 

American warships have deliberately sailed close to one of the land formations three times in the past seven months to test China’s territorial claims.

*“The US is trying to claim that it is keeping the maritime waters free for transport and navigation. Needless to say that the small islands that the Chinese have built… are not interrupting any navigation whatsoever,” Rickard said.*

US Defense Secretary Ashton Carter plans to visit the region next week for an annual Asian national security conference.

China claims nearly all of the South China Sea, despite partial counterclaims by Brunei, Malaysia, Taiwan, Vietnam and the Philippines. China is also locked in disputes with Japan and South Korea over the East China Sea.

Across Southeast Asia, concerns about China and its growing military have created an opportunity for the US to improve relationships.

China has repeatedly criticized US military presence in the region and suspects the military drills are part of efforts to contain Beijing.


http://irandaily.ion.ir/News/152440.html

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## ahojunk

China simulates 'natural process' of South China Sea corals
2016-06-02 08:27 | Global Times _| Editor: Li Yan_

China is simulating the natural process of coral reefs in the country's activities in the South China Sea, denying recent accusations of large-scale destruction of coral reefs.

China has applied for over *60 national patents* in construction activities in the South China Sea, and construction work on the Nansha Islands has protected the biological system, afforested the land and improved the ecology, a Xinhua News Agency report said on Tuesday.

After two years of construction, the area has become a flora and fauna paradise. Over *300,000 tropical plants* from twenty species are located there with a germination rate above 86.5 percent, and the salinity of coral sand has decreased to a safe planting level,according to the report.

However, some U.S. experts told a recent forum at the East-West Center in Hawaii that coral reefs in the South China Sea are being destroyed on a large scale, which was mainly caused by China's massive land reclamation activities.

Chen Xiangmiao, an assistant researcher at the National Institute for South China Sea Studies, told the Global Times that the U.S. tried to use the environmental problem as an excuse to suppress China and hype the South China Sea issue.

We have taken everything into consideration and prepared contingency plans, said Chen, adding that he hopes China and the ASEAN (Association of Southeast Asian Nations) could cooperate protect and develop the South China Sea.

Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson Hong Lei also said that China's activities on the Nansha Islands strictly follow the principle of conducting a green project and building ecologically-friendly islands and reefs.

Based on thorough studies, China adopts dynamic protection measures along the whole process so as to combine construction with ecological protection and the sustainable development of islands and reefs, said Hong.

"China takes the approach of 'natural simulation'. The impact on the ecological system of coral reefs is limited. Once China's construction activities are completed, ecological protection on relevant islands and reefs will be notably enhanced and such action would stand the test of time," said Hong,

Hong added that the Nansha Islands are China's territory. China cares about protecting the ecology of relevant islands, reefs and waters more than any other country, organization or people in the world.

The South China Sea has different kinds of ecosystems including coral reefs, mangroves and seaweed beds. There are over 200 kinds of biological resources in the Nansha Islands, said Wang Xiaoqiang, a deputy director at the State Oceanic Administration.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cochine

.
*Indonesia tổ charge Chinese fishing crew with poaching*





A Chinese coast guard vessel intervened and prevented the Indonesian maritime authorities from seizing a Chinese fishing boat that Jakarta said was poaching in the country's waters.PHOTO: REUTERS

Indonesia will prosecute the crew of eight from a China-flagged fishing boat who were arrested last Saturday for poaching near the Natunas, according to its laws, said the country's chief security minister.

Coordinating Minister for Political, Legal and Security Affairs Luhut Pandjaitan, however, said Jakarta will continue to engage Beijing in dialogue to resolve their latest dispute arising from the intervention by a Chinese coast guard vessel in the failed seizure of the fishing boat by the Indonesian authorities.

"Indonesia and China are good friends, but our territorial integrity must be upheld," he told The Straits Times yesterday.

"That is why our Foreign Minister is intensively communicating with her Chinese counterpart."

Tensions flared between Indonesia and China on Monday after the South-east Asian giant protested against the actions of a vessel from China's coast guard.

Indonesia had accused it of breaching its sovereign rights when the Chinese patrol boat forcibly prevented the local maritime authorities from detaining a fishing boat in its territorial waters.

Officers from the Hiu 4 had spotted the Sheng Te Tsai and Lien I Hsing vessels poaching in Indonesian waters at about 3am, with the crew on board allegedly preparing a "long-line fishing net" .

The Hiu 4 fired warnings shots over the bows of the two vessels after they ignored its order to halt.

Taiwan's Central News Agency reported yesterday that the fishing vessels evaded capture and later lodged a complaint against the Indonesians, accusing the patrol boat of firing 10 shots at them.

Taiwan's Ministry of Foreign Affairs yesterday demanded that Indonesia provide evidence to support its claims that two fishing boats were poaching in its territorial waters and had attempted to ram the Indonesian patrol boat.

The ministry also said in a statement that if the Indonesian authorities are unable to provide any further explanation over the shooting, Taipei "will not rule out the possibility of lodging a formal protest".

The Central News Agency report said Indonesia's Maritime Affairs and Fisheries Minister Susi Pudjiastuti showed the agency video footage of the pursuit. Ms Susi said a rope can be seen in the video hanging from the right side of the Sheng Te Tsai, which indicated that it was in the middle of a fishing operation.

The incident involving China's fishing vessel was not the only altercation in recent weeks. China last Wednesday expressed its "serious concerns" after claiming that Argentina sank a Chinese trawler for alleged illegal fishing off the Argentine coast.


----------



## vtnsx

Nothing is credible coming from China.


----------



## cnleio

The 3,000m-long runway seems finished in Subi Reef(Island)

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## cochine

cnleio said:


> The 3,000m-long runway seems finished in Subi Reef(Island)
> View attachment 308799



Its Subi Reef, not Island. Man made structure is illegal.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cnleio

kecho said:


> Its Subi Reef, not Island. Man made structure is illegal.


Is this (controlled by Vietnam) illegal or not ? although smaller than Subi island

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## CCP

Malaysian navy chief visited Liaoning this week.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## ahojunk

China Urges U.S., Japan to Stop Pointing Fingers on S. China Sea
2016-06-05 09:35:00 CRIENGLISH.com Web Editor: Fei Fei

The Chinese foreign ministry is demanding the United States and Japan stop pointing fingers at China on the South China Sea.

It's a response to remarks made by U.S. Defense Secretary Ashton Carter and his Japanese counterpart Gen Nakatani at the Shangri-La security summit in Singapore.

Cater has suggested China's military activities in the South China Sea are isolating itself.

In countering the suggestion, the Chinese Foreign Ministry says China has indisputable sovereignty over the Nansha Islands and their adjacent waters, saying any construction activities on islands and reefs in the area are legitimate.

Chinese Admiral Sun Jianguo, head of Chinese delegation to the Shangri-La Dialogue, has also called on Japan to respect China's interests and concerns, and not to intervene in or hype up the South China Sea.

Thai Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha has issued a statement at the talks in Singapore, saying maritime issue should not become a zero-sum game for the region.

Indonesia's Defense Minister says the UN Charter and other documents need to be given full consideration, saying disputes in the South China Sea need to be resolved step by step.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cochine

cnleio said:


> Is this (controlled by Vietnam) illegal or not ? although smaller than Subi island



Spratly Island is existed from ancient time. we can do what we want on our islands. Its legally activities of true owner. 

The man made island on Subi reef of Chinese is illegal. Its the difference.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cnleio

kecho said:


> Spratly Island is existed from ancient time. we can do what we want on our islands. Its legally activities of true owner.
> 
> The man made island on Subi reef of Chinese is illegal. Its the difference.


LOL ... interesting, first hear 'the double standard' from Vietnam. China also can do what we want on our lands.

More faster, more efficient, more bigger ~!



CCP said:


> Malaysian navy chief visited Liaoning this week.


Soon there will be next A.C to visit.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ahojunk

_The following is an email to the Editor - Leslie Fong._

-------
Freedom of Navigation Ops: US Exercising Right or Might?
2016-06-01 12:18:26 Agencies Web Editor: Guan Chao

Leslie Fong

An e-mail that takes a dig at Uncle Sam for using freedom of navigation as a lame excuse to flex his muscles at China over its maritime claims in the South China Sea has somehow found its way into my mailbox.

Written by a certain Ms Oh Beigong from Taipei, it was addressed to Admiral Harry B. Harris, Commander of the United States Pacific Command, and copied to his bosses, US Secretary of Navy Ray Mabus and US Secretary of Defence Ashton Carter, as well as Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe.

Now, I would like to make it clear that I have not the faintest idea who Ms Oh is but I do think she has a sharp elbow. From the little that I know, what she has written is accurate but just so readers can judge for themselves, I reproduce here the e-mail in its entirety:

_"Dear Admiral Harris,

I write to congratulate you for standing up for mariners the world over to assert the right to freedom of navigation in international waters. You showed much daring when on May 10, you sent the USS William P. Lawrence, an Arleigh Burke class missile destroyer, to within 12 nautical miles of Fiery Cross Reef, over which Beijing has long claimed sovereignty and which it has occupied for years.

Sure, some of my friends said the destroyer made just a single pass, which would qualify the sail-through as innocent passage under Article 18 of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (Unclos). In other words, they were telling me, the US had made a big deal out of it as there was no real risk of the Chinese responding and going ballistic, literally or metaphorically. They also said you didn't need guts, or even brains, to dispatch the destroyer as you were just carrying out the orders of your political masters!

That's quibbling. I think you deserve credit for risking the lives of your sailors as you couldn't know for sure the Chinese would steer clear of your destroyer. Remember the mid-air collision between one of your EP-3 spy planes and a Chinese J8 fighter on April 1, 2001? Nobody saw that coming and somebody did die - the Chinese pilot, Lieutenant Commander Wang Wei. The EP-3 was forced to land in Hainan and its 24 crew members detained and interrogated. Beijing, ruled by a more conciliatory Jiang Zemin then, set the 24 free eventually, compensated Wang's family and hailed him as a hero, a "Guardian of Territorial Space and Waters".

This time round, with a tougher Xi Jinping in charge and after so many provocations, no one could guarantee that the Chinese would not send a number of "fishing vessels" or even Coast Guard Cutters to sail right across the path of the USS William P. Lawrence and force a collision. Out of the question? Back in the 1980s, when the Cold War was still on, Soviet freighters did exactly that - they rammed American naval craft in the Mediterranean for encroaching on their waters. Chinese commentators have of late been talking publicly about emulating the Soviets. And hey, with all the nationalistic fervour whipped up on the mainland, the Chinese may need another hero!

Well, you got away again this time just as you did in January when the USS Curtis Wilbur skirted Triton in the Paracel group of islands claimed by Beijing and last October when the USS Larsen charged into contentious waters in the Spratlys. So, yes, you showed you had what it took to risk your men's lives without batting an eyelid. Bully for you!

But displaying testicular fortitude is one thing and pushing your luck too far is another. You have made whatever point you think you were making. But have the Chinese stopped building the airstrips and other structures on the disputed islands and reefs that the other claimants are said to be worried about?

Let me get serious. The US is playing with fire by repeatedly poking China in the eye. We in this region are going to be the collateral damage if this spins out of control. And why should we pay the price when the US does not really have right on its side? As a thinking man, did you not feel discomfort deep inside you when the US kept singling out the Chinese as the bad guys in the maritime disputes?

You must know better than most on this planet that the US has not been able to cite one instance when China actually denied anyone the freedom of navigation or point to any statement by Beijing threatening that right. Of course Washington will sidestep that - why let facts spoil a good excuse - and say instead that it cannot allow China's claim to waters bound by that famous or infamous nine-dash line that it has drawn in the South China Sea to go unchallenged.

Excuse me, but did you not know that it was the Republic of China government, now relocated to Taiwan, that first went to the United Nations in 1948 to lodge a claim using a map of the South China Sea showing 11 dashes? Yes, 11, not nine. Not one squeak about that in all this time, none from the US, Britain, Australia - till now.

You will say, no doubt, that the Chinese are going to militarise the airstrips and other facilities to project force, thus threatening all the countries in the region. Er, coming from a senior naval officer of a country that operates some 800 bases or military facilities in more than 60 countries around the world, several of them virtually at China's doorstep, that, sir, is a bit rich!

I may be just a fisherman's daughter from Kaohsiung but I have read enough to know that capability plus intention equals threat. Guess what? The US has 11 carrier battle groups circling the globe, each with enough firepower to send four-fifths of the world's countries back to the Stone Age, the largest and second-largest air force in the world (US Air Force and US Navy's Air Wing) and the openly declared intention of not allowing any other nation to challenge US power and supremacy. Talk about threats!

By the way, all the other claimants, except Brunei, are also building and expanding their presence in the disputed areas. In fact, Taiwan has troops stationed on Taiping Island, which is also claimed by the Philippines. But the US has looked the other way. I guess, to quote your former vice-president Al Gore, that is an inconvenient truth.

I know, I know, the US is not in the habit of admitting that it is or can be wrong. Thus not a word of apology for invading Iraq under the pretext of rooting out the non-existent weapons of mass destruction. Nor did Washington ever concede that it wrongly accused the Soviet Union of using biological weapons on the Hmong people in Indochina in 1981 when the yellowish substance that fell on them from the sky was found by an international panel of scientists to be just the faeces of huge swarms of bees!

Bottom line? Might is right. The US is out to stymie the rise of China and prevent it from challenging American dominance, if not hegemony. We get that. So do us a favour, please stop talking about high principles and international law.

However, if you wish to regain at least a modicum of respect from clear-sighted people in this region, here is something you, in particular, can do. In the name of asserting freedom of navigation and upholding international law, send your destroyer or whatever to an atoll in the Philippine Sea which the Japanese call Okinotorishima (Okinotori Island) and claim as their territory.

The atoll measures no more than 9 sq m at low tide, which is probably smaller than your office in Honolulu, and lies more than 1,700km south of Tokyo. But it is less than 500km from Taiwan itself.

Under Unclos, an atoll is not an island and thus cannot be used as the basis to claim the usual 200 nautical mile exclusive economic zone or EEZ. But that has not stopped Tokyo from doing so, and it has proclaimed as its EEZ an area larger than the entire Japan. Taiwan is among the many that have refused to recognise this.

Last month, a Taiwanese fishing boat was seized by the Japanese Coast Guard for operating in the EEZ. It was set free only after the owners paid nearly US$55,000 (S$76,000) as a security bond. Fortunately, our government in Taipei took up the cudgels and said it would send naval vessels from now on to protect Taiwanese fishing boats.

So, please, dear admiral, send the William P. Lawrence there and have some of its crew go fishing near the atoll. All who look askance at your dubious freedom of navigation expeditions in the South China Sea thus far will applaud you.

Don't let the Chinese beat you to it!_

The Author:

Leslie Fong is the senior executive vice-president of Singapore Press Holdings' marketing and digital divisions. He imagines an open letter a vexed Taiwanese fisherman's daughter might write to the Commander of the United States Pacific Command over the recent freedom of navigation exercise when the USS William P. Lawrence sailed within 12 nautical miles of Beijing-occupied Fiery Cross Reef.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## The Sandman

5th June 2016,

China has rebuffed US pressure to curb its activity in the South China Sea on Sunday, restating its sovereignty over most of the disputed territory and saying it “has no fear of trouble”. 

On the last day of Asia’s biggest security summit in Singapore, Admiral Sun Jianguo said China will not be bullied, including over a pending international court ruling over its claims on the vital trade route.

*“We do not make trouble, but we have no fear of trouble,” Sun told the Shangri-La Dialogue, where more than 600 security, military and government delegates had gathered over three days. *

*“China will not bear the consequences, nor will it allow any infringement on its sovereignty and security interest, or stay indifferent to some countries creating chaos in the South China Sea.”*

The waterway has become a flashpoint between the United States, which increased its focus on the Asia Pacific under President Barack Obama’s “pivot”, and China, which is projecting ever greater economic, political and military power in the region.

The two powers have traded accusations of militarising the waterway as Beijing undertakes large-scale land reclamation and construction on disputed features while Washington has increased its patrols and exercises.

On Saturday, top US officials including defense secretary Ash Carter warned China of the risk of isolating itself internationally and pledged to remain the main guarantor of Asian security for decades.

During a visit to Mongolia on Sunday, US secretary of state John Kerry urged Beijing not to establish an air defence identification zone over the South China Sea, as it did over the East China Sea in 2013.

Kerry, who will visit China next, said an ADIZ would be “a provocative and destabilising act”, which would question Beijing’s commitment to diplomatically manage the dispute.

Despite repeated notes of concern from countries such as Japan, India, Vietnam and South Korea, Sun rejected the prospect of isolation, saying many of the Asian countries present at the Shangri-La Dialogue were “warmer” and “friendlier” to China than a year ago. China had 17 bilateral meetings this year, compared with 13 in 2015.

“We were not isolated in the past, we are not isolated now and we will not be isolated in the future,” Sun said.

“Actually I am worried that some people and countries are still looking at China with the Cold War mentality and prejudice. They may build a wall in their minds and end up isolating themselves.”

On the upcoming decision by the international tribunal in The Hague in the case brought by the Philippines to contest China’s claims in the territory, Sun reiterated Beijing does not recognise the court’s authority.

said China wanted to solve the dispute with the Philippines bilaterally and said the door was open for dialogue with incoming president Rodrigo Duterte.

Duterte said on Thursday he would not surrender the country’s rights over the disputed Scarborough Shoal in the South China Sea, which China seized in 2012.

Japan’s minister of defense Gen Nakatani told reporters all claimants must abide by the ruling or else “Japan will have no choice but to strongly raise its voice from the standpoint of placing importance on the rule of law.”

China claims almost the entire sea. Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines, Taiwan and Vietnam also have claims.

“China has the patience and wisdom to settle any disputes through dialogue. We also believe the related countries have the wisdom and patience to make peace,” Sun said. “I’ve always believed that shaking hands is better than clenching fists.”

Vietnam’s deputy defence minister Nguyen Chi Vinh warned the rising tensions could lead to an arms race with “disastrous and unpredictable consequences” if not addressed. The US lifted Vietnam’s arms embargo last month.

Most countries at the summit stressed the importance of freedom of navigation and overflight in the waters, through which trillions of dollars in trade is shipped every year.

Sun denied such concerns should be focused on China.

“If there is any restriction ... it will definitely not be China’s fault. If you don’t believe it, just wait and see.”
http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...have-no-fear-of-trouble-chinese-admiral-warns

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## cochine

cnleio said:


> LOL ... interesting, first hear 'the double standard' from Vietnam. China also can do what we want on our lands.
> 
> More faster, more efficient, more bigger ~!



Island and reef is totally different concept here.

*China is a threat: US scholar
*
_VietNamNet Bridge - This is the second article in a series written Hoang Huong during her trip to Hawaii (USA), Beijing and Hainan (China), Masinloc and Manila (the Philippines) and Singapore with journalists from 14 countries in the Asia-Pacific region to discuss the East Sea (South China Sea) conflict, held by the Jefferson Fellowships program of the East-West Center (USA)._





_The reef of Mischeft where China is conducting land reclaimation_.

The three scholars mentioned in the article are Dr. Mr. Denny Roy, a senior expert on governance and security from the East-West Center (USA), Prof. Sherry P. Broder, a lecturer at the William S. Richardson Law School, University of Hawaii (USA) and Dr. Li Guoqiang, a researcher in the field of philosophy and social sciences from the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences.

Sharing the same view that China has been developing very strongly and this country now has great influence on global trade, the Chinese and American scholars’ perspective is different on the orientation and the way of development, as well as the attitude of China to the world in the process of economic development.

Referring to the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea (DOC), which was signed by China and ASEAN countries in 2002, Mr. Li Guoqiang said that during the process of discussion and implementation, the concerned parties should try to reach common awareness and should not impose their will on others. However, two American scholars pointed out the actions that go against the good words of China.

Prof. Sherry P. Broder said that in the past few years, China has been involved in serious standoffs with its neighbors. She listed various events such as China’s dispute with the Philippine Coast Guard at the Scarborough Shoal began in 2012. In November 2013, China unexpectedly declared an air defense identification zone (ADIZ) over a large portion of the East China Sea that overlaps portions of the South Korean and Japanese ADIZs. In 2014, China sent the HD-981 oil rig in waters disputed with Vietnam near the Paracel Islands.

“China has also used its economic power to influence developments and to punish its opponents in the East Sea and West Sea disputes. For instance, in 2012, China restricted Philippine fruit imports. In 2010, China restricted exports of rare earth minerals to Japan. China claimed that the action was for environmental protection purposes, but in 2014 the World Trade Organization concluded that China’s restrictions were discriminatory and violated its rules,” said Prof. Broder.

Dr. Denny Roy frankly pointed out: “China sends dual, perhaps contradictory, messages. The first is ‘Don’t worry, we want peace and stability and trade that will be good for you.’ The second message is ‘We are increasingly powerful, so if you are wise you will treat China with deference and respect or you will suffer’.”

A reporter from New Zealand questioned why did China repeatedly state it observed the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) but refused the arbitration case of the Philippines? Mr. Li Guoqiang explained quite confusingly: "The UNCLOS does not solve the territorial, dispute and military issues, just deal with the basic problems of the sea…"

Citing China’s respect of diplomatic measures among the three ways of settlement - military struggle, judicial arbitration and diplomacy – Mr. Li Guoqiang justified China’s attitude in the Philippines’ lawsuit as "justifiable and appropriate."

Prof. Broder said: “If the arbitration panel rules in favor of the Philippines, it will strengthen the position of the Philippines and probably encourage other countries in the region to bring claims to push back China’s claims. If China refuses to abide by the decision, it will erode China’s international standing and position as a global leader.”

*"China is a threat"*

Referring to the role of the US in the East Sea, particularly when the US recently sent the warship USS Fort Worth to patrol the East Sea, which was protested fiercely by China, Mr. Li Guoqiang said the US’s statement on the policy on the South China Sea was "unconstructive".

"The US is not the country concerned, but it has made a lot of actions to intervene in the South China Sea issue," he said.

From American view, Prof. Broder clearlysaid: “China has repeatedly promised that it means only peace. The Charter of the United Nations prohibits using force to settle territorial disputes. The escalating conflicts in the region could trigger a severe crisis, which would ultimately affect the entire world.”

“The US has continued to urge all claimants to follow the provisions of the 2002 DOC, in which the parties committed to exercise self-restraint in the conduct of activities that would complicate or escalate disputes and affect peace and stability. It is fair for other nations to evaluate the validity of what China says against its actions,” she said.

Dr. Denny Roy stressed that the rise of China is a threat. “A stronger China will more strongly demand Chinese security and prosperity. Inevitably, this will reduce the freedom of action and in some cases the security of China’s neighbors. In that sense the rise of China is a threat,” he said.

** Dr. Denny Roy *taught Chinese studies, the history of Asia, and Southeast Asian politics at the Navy School of Monterey, California, in 1998 - 2000; researched on security - defense at the University of Canberra, Australia; taught political science at schools in Singapore and England before becoming a senior researcher of the East - West Research Centre in Honolulu, Hawaii, United States. He is the author of many research works such as The Pacific War and Its Political Legacies; Taiwan: A Political Policy and China's Foreign Relations, and many articles in scientific - politics journals.

** Prof. Sherry P. Broder *is a lecturer at the William S. Richardson Law School, University of Hawaiil, Honolulu, Hawaii, USA. Her major teaching and research fields are is international law, ocean law, environmental law and human rights. Also, she is a media advisor and arbitrator for Hawaii’s government. She is the founder and executive director of the Jon Van Dyke Institute for International Law and Justice, which regularly organizes seminars and events related to the UNCLOS, the International Environmental Law and the International law on human rights.

** Dr. Li Guoqiang* is a researcher in the field of philosophy and social sciences. He is working at the border research center of the CASS, China.


----------



## dy1022



Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## William Hung

I truly don’t understand, China why do you keep doing these kind of provocative things when they were not provoking you? First you did it to the Philippines, then to Vietnam, now you trying to make Indonesia and Malaysia your enemies too? Why you do these things when they are not even provoking you?

*shakes head in disbelief*

------------------------

*As Beijing flexes muscles in South China Sea, Malaysia eyes harder response*


REUTERS/JOSEPH SIPALAN
X
By Joseph Sipalan

MIRI, Malaysia (Reuters) - Spotting a large vessel off the coast of Sarawak state in March, officers on a Malaysian patrol boat were shocked when it steamed toward them at high speed, blaring its horn before veering off to reveal "Chinese Coast Guard" emblazoned on its side.

According to an officer from the Malaysian Maritime Enforcement Agency (MMEA), Chinese Coast Guard vessels have been sighted several times before around the South Luconia Shoals, off the oil-rich town of Miri. But such an aggressive encounter was a first.

"To us, it looked like an attempt to charge at our boat, possibly to intimidate," said the officer, who was not authorized to speak publicly but showed Reuters a video of the previously unreported incident.

Spurred by the incident and the appearance of some 100 Chinese fishing vessels in the area around the time, some in Malaysia are hardening the nation's previously muted responses toward their powerful neighbor China.

One senior minister said Malaysia must now stand up against such maritime incursions as China flexes its muscles along dozens of disputed reefs and islands in the South China Sea.

China's growing assertiveness has already alarmed the Philippines, Vietnam and other claimants. It has also increased U.S.-China tensions, with the two heavyweights trading accusations of militarizing the vital waterways through which some $5 trillion in trade passes each year.

But heralding its "special relationship" with China, and heavily reliant on trade and investment, Malaysia's previous responses to China's activity in the region have been described by Western diplomats as "low-key".

It downplayed two naval exercises conducted by China in 2013 and 2014 at James Shoal, less than 50 nautical miles off Sarawak. And in 2015, concerns raised by Malaysian fishermen in Miri about alleged bullying by armed men aboard Chinese Coast Guard vessels were largely ignored.

FISHING FRACAS

But when scores of Chinese fishing boats were spotted in March encroaching near South Luconia Shoals, a rich fishing ground south of the disputed Spratly Islands, Malaysia sent its navy and uncharacteristically summoned China's ambassador to explain the incident.

China's foreign ministry downplayed the matter, saying its trawlers were carrying out normal fishing activities in "relevant waters".

Just a couple of weeks later, Malaysia announced plans to set up a naval forward operating base near Bintulu, south of Miri...

source: Reuters. http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0YM2SV

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Akhill

The chinese version also should be listened first before making an assertion like this...

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Beast

William Hung said:


> I truly don’t understand, China why do you keep doing these kind of provocative things when they were not provoking you? First you did it to the Philippines, then to Vietnam, now you trying to make Indonesia and Malaysia your enemies too? Why you do these things when they are not even provoking you?
> 
> *shakes head in disbelief*
> 
> ------------------------
> 
> *As Beijing flexes muscles in South China Sea, Malaysia eyes harder response*
> 
> 
> REUTERS/JOSEPH SIPALAN
> X
> By Joseph Sipalan
> 
> MIRI, Malaysia (Reuters) - Spotting a large vessel off the coast of Sarawak state in March, officers on a Malaysian patrol boat were shocked when it steamed toward them at high speed, blaring its horn before veering off to reveal "Chinese Coast Guard" emblazoned on its side.
> 
> According to an officer from the Malaysian Maritime Enforcement Agency (MMEA), Chinese Coast Guard vessels have been sighted several times before around the South Luconia Shoals, off the oil-rich town of Miri. But such an aggressive encounter was a first.
> 
> "To us, it looked like an attempt to charge at our boat, possibly to intimidate," said the officer, who was not authorized to speak publicly but showed Reuters a video of the previously unreported incident.
> 
> Spurred by the incident and the appearance of some 100 Chinese fishing vessels in the area around the time, some in Malaysia are hardening the nation's previously muted responses toward their powerful neighbor China.
> 
> One senior minister said Malaysia must now stand up against such maritime incursions as China flexes its muscles along dozens of disputed reefs and islands in the South China Sea.
> 
> China's growing assertiveness has already alarmed the Philippines, Vietnam and other claimants. It has also increased U.S.-China tensions, with the two heavyweights trading accusations of militarizing the vital waterways through which some $5 trillion in trade passes each year.
> 
> But heralding its "special relationship" with China, and heavily reliant on trade and investment, Malaysia's previous responses to China's activity in the region have been described by Western diplomats as "low-key".
> 
> It downplayed two naval exercises conducted by China in 2013 and 2014 at James Shoal, less than 50 nautical miles off Sarawak. And in 2015, concerns raised by Malaysian fishermen in Miri about alleged bullying by armed men aboard Chinese Coast Guard vessels were largely ignored.
> 
> FISHING FRACAS
> 
> But when scores of Chinese fishing boats were spotted in March encroaching near South Luconia Shoals, a rich fishing ground south of the disputed Spratly Islands, Malaysia sent its navy and uncharacteristically summoned China's ambassador to explain the incident.
> 
> China's foreign ministry downplayed the matter, saying its trawlers were carrying out normal fishing activities in "relevant waters".
> 
> Just a couple of weeks later, Malaysia announced plans to set up a naval forward operating base near Bintulu, south of Miri...
> 
> source: Reuters. http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0YM2SV



You see how desperate the west media try to add in their words and lie to the world..

http://english.chinamil.com.cn/news-channels/china-military-news/2016-05/25/content_7072002.htm

Oh yes, Malaysia Chief of Navy visit CV-16 Laoning with warm ties. If Malaysia want harder response, they will not even bother such visit in the first place. 3 years old kid can also understand the situation. 

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/dipl...vestment-embattled-1mdb-throw-malaysian-prime

And the Malaysia will thank China for suporting 1 MDB. Any hostile to Chinese will mean all such investment withdraw. I trust the wisdom of Malaysian state. 



Emperor_of_Mankind said:


> William are you Chinese?


He is a bitter Pinoy!

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## fadine

"中国的敌人太多了。我们是不是应该移民外星，毁灭地球" <= What is this mean?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

fadine said:


> "中国的敌人太多了。我们是不是应该移民外星，毁灭地球" <= What is this mean?



it means the we're too many enemies, we will have alliance with Aliens against our enemies on earth 



> *“We do not make trouble, but we have no fear of trouble,” Sun told the Shangri-La Dialogue, where more than 600 security, military and government delegates had gathered over three days.
> 
> “China will not bear the consequences, nor will it allow any infringement on its sovereignty and security interest, or stay indifferent to some countries creating chaos in the South China Sea.”*



Strong enemy will only understand a strong words, well said Admiral Sun

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ahojunk

The Sandman said:


> Sun rejected the prospect of isolation, saying many of the Asian countries present at the Shangri-La Dialogue were “warmer” and “friendlier” to China than a year ago. China had 17 bilateral meetings this year, compared with 13 in 2015.
> 
> “We were not isolated in the past, we are not isolated now and we will not be isolated in the future,” Sun said.


.
For many countries in the world, China is their biggest or second biggest trading/economic partner. Any country trying to isolate China is asking for economic suicide. The economic damage to China is minimal, but the damage to themselves is far greater. That's the reason why smart ASEAN countries and South Korea prefer bilateral dialogue rather than sable rattling no matter how hard US is trying to provoke them. Obama had a recent meeting with ASEAN leaders in California but US must be very disappointed that there was no communique issued to condemn China.
All the same, the ASEAN leaders enjoyed a nice holiday in California, lol.



The Sandman said:


> “Actually I am worried that some people and countries are still looking at China with the Cold War mentality and prejudice. They may build a wall in their minds and end up isolating themselves.”


.
LOL. Admiral Sun has a good point and also a sense of humor.



The Sandman said:


> On the upcoming decision by the international tribunal in The Hague in the case brought by the Philippines to contest China’s claims in the territory, Sun reiterated Beijing does not recognise the court’s authority.


.
China has the right not to participate in arbitration under a clause in UNCLOS. However, the lawyers and judges are happy to go ahead because they get paid. The longer this drags on, the more they are paid. You know how lawyers are. I believe the Philippines are paying for this.

----

Starting today, the US and China are having their Strategic & Economic Dialogue in Beijing. This is where the real horse-trading takes place between the G2. I have no doubt that pawns (i.e. Philippines, Vietnam, Japan and Taiwan) would be sacrificed if they are no longer of any use. As Singapore's veteran diplomat, Mr Bilahari Kausikan notes, small countries would "pay the price" when big countries reach an agreement. Think Taiwan in the 1970s, when it was at the losing end of Sino-American rapprochement.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Soryu

cnleio said:


> Is this (controlled by Vietnam) illegal or not ? although smaller than Subi island


Do you have brain !?

Reef = small Island ?
So Why did we call them are reef and Islands ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ahojunk

Problem of navigation freedom in South China Sea "pseudo-proposition": China
Source: Xinhua | 2016-06-05 22:46:57 | Editor: Tian Shaohui

BEIJING, June 5 (Xinhua) -- A Chinese foreign ministry spokeswoman on Sunday said the freedom of navigation and overflight in the South China Sea has never been a problem.

China respects and supports such freedom enjoyed by all countries in accordance with international law, and has made great efforts in safeguarding the freedom with other countries in the region, Hua Chunying said in a press release.

She made the remarks in response to reports of some worries over the "freedom of navigation and overflight" in the South China Sea, expressed during the 15th Shangri-La Dialogue in Singapore.

Hua called the so-called problem of the navigation and overflight freedom a "pseudo-proposition" because there has never been a problem.

She said that the real intention of certain countries to hype up the topic is to sow dissension among countries in the region and create an excuse for political and military engagement in the South China Sea issue.

Safeguarding the freedom of navigation and overflight in the South China Sea is not only the requirement of international law, but also in line with China's fundamental interests, she said, adding that China will unswervingly ensure it.

"We hope those certain countries will stop disturbing regional safety and stability in the name of safeguarding the right of the navigation freedom," Hua said.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cnleio

Soryu said:


> Do you have brain !?
> 
> Reef = small Island ?
> So Why did we call them are reef and Islands ?


LOL ... what stuff in ur brain, Vietnam can building ur island, and China can't build our reef ?
U r not the Lord of SCS !

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Soryu

cnleio said:


> LOL ... what stuff in ur brain, Vietnam can building ur island, and China can't build our reef ?
> U r not the Lord of SCS !



So DOC and COC were shjt to you !?
So just say it: I want do what I want, don't care or respect about any law and agreement, DOC whatever...

We're improving our Islands >>> still a Islands.
You made reef become big Islands >>> you changed it situation.

So don't compare you to us on the actions.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cnleio

Soryu said:


> So DOC and COC were shjt to you !?
> So just say it: I want do what I want, don't care or respect about any law and agreement, DOC whatever...
> 
> We're improving our Islands >>> still a Islands.
> You made reef become big Islands >>> you changed it situation.
> 
> So don't compare you to us on the actions.


Keep going ... the time when u building the island, China already made ten more in the region. U knew that it's a game u can't win vs China in real world. maybe U can dream the American or Japanese someone willing to die for Vietnam island in SCS to stop China, or as far as i know ADIZ in SCS will coming. When the day come, just enjoy it.


Who can stop China in SCS ? Only the WAR, which one take first ?

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## cochine

*France to Push for Coordinated EU Patrols in South China Sea*

France will urge European Union nations to coordinate navy patrols to ensure a “regular and visible” presence in the disputed South China Sea, in the latest sign of international push back to China’s expanded military clout in the area.

The French government views the protection of freedom of the seas as critical from an economic standpoint and is concerned that a loss of such rights in the South China Sea may lead to similar problems in the Arctic Ocean or Mediterranean Sea, Defense Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian told attendees at a global defense forum, including top Chinese officials.

“If we want to contain the risk of conflict, we must defend this right, and defend it ourselves,” Le Drian said on Sunday at the Shangri-La dialogue in Singapore.






Jean-Yves Le Drian speaks at an IISS meeting on June 5.

Photographer: Roslan Rahman/AFP/Getty Images
He said so far this year, France’s navy has been deployed three times through parts of the South China Sea. “Several times per year, French navy ships cross the waters of this region, and they’ll continue to do it.”

European nations have previously urged claimant states in the South China Sea -- China, Taiwan and some Southeast Asian nations -- to resolve their disputes peacefully, while calling for the continuation of free navigation through one of the world’s busiest shipping lanes.

*‘Be Present’*
Still, there has not so far been a major boost in the military presence from Europe. At the same time, China is increasing its navy and aerial patrols of the South China Sea and installing defense infrastructure on some reclaimed reefs, amid a broader focus on long-range military capacity in the western Pacific.

“This is a message that France will continue to be present at international forums,” Le Drian said. “It’s also a message that France will continue to act upon, by sailing its ships and flying its planes wherever international law will allow, and wherever operational needs request that we do so.”


Le Drian said he regretted that the Association of Southeast Asian Nations had not made substantial progress toward a code of conduct with China on the South China Sea.

*Minimizing Gaps*
Speaking at the same forum Saturday, U.S. Defense Secretary Ash Carter said China risked erecting a “Great Wall of self-isolation” in Asia over its actions, and called China’s land reclamation in the area “unprecedented.”

A senior French official who traveled with the minister said the country will discuss plans with EU partners in coming weeks, with a focus on guaranteeing that EU navies regularly crisscross the waters.

With countries such as the U.K. and Netherlands sending ships to the area from time to time, France is interested in better coordinating patrols to ensure there is no long gap without an EU presence in the area, according to the official, who asked not to be identified, citing policy.

Another possibility, the official said, is smaller EU navies or those currently less engaged in the area may send ships that would be integrated in French task forces to minimize supply difficulties.


----------



## ahojunk

_China is continuing its diplomatic offensive, ..._

--------
Interview: Manila intensifies tension in South China Sea -- former diplomat
Source: Xinhua | 2016-06-09 20:45:42 | Editor: huaxia

by Xinhua Writers Yang Tianmu, Wang Wen

MANILA, June 9 (Xinhua) -- The Philippine government has been behind the intensifying tensions in the South China Sea, a former diplomat of the country told Xinhua on Wednesday.

Alberto Encomienda, former secretary-general of Maritime and Ocean Affairs Center of the Philippine Foreign Affairs Department, said: "China has been for the negotiations all along, but from the beginning we are not."

The Philippine Foreign Affairs Department said it has conducted over 50 consultations and negotiations with China from 1995 to 2012, which did not happen, said the diplomat, who was then in charge of the negotiation "before it exploded."

Encomienda noted that China "has been sending quiet feelers to improve relations."

"Prior to the 2005's APEC (forum summit), China sent two delegations to the Philippines, and invited delegations from the House of Representatives to Beijing. We never gave this much attention. After the summit, China sent feelers to the Philippines again, we never responded," he revealed.

The former Philippine maritime official also said that China should not be demonized in terms of the South China Sea issue, since it was the Philippines who first engaged in reclamation activities in South China Sea, building airstrips on China's Zhongye Island.

"We were the first to do reclamation in South China Sea. So we cannot demonize China for reclamation," he said, revealing that the airfield on Zhongye Island "was built on top of live coral reefs."

Encomienda also lashed out at the United States for its mounting military presence in the South China Sea and its purpose to set the Philippines against China on this issue.

"The U.S. is very against China's reclamation in South China Sea ... Look, how much China is spending to reclaim those reefs? Nothing compared to what the U.S. spent on the Philippines for EDCA (Enhanced Defense Cooperation Agreement). In short, China is reclaiming reefs, but America is reclaiming the Philippines," he said.

After President Benigno Aquino III's first state visit to the United States in 2010, "everything that came up as the Philippines' South China Sea position has something to do with 'rule-based' and 'legal framework.' But these are rule basis determined by the U.S.," said Encomienda.

The former diplomat emphasized that the Philippines "is in urgent need of an independent foreign policy."


----------



## ahojunk

_President Duterte shows he has balls, he is pursuing a more independent foreign policy, i.e. charting a different course to that of Aquino. US will not be happy, but will US stay silent? What will US do next?_

--------
Manila's new leader sends positive signal to Beijing
(China Daily) 09:44, June 11, 2016

The incoming new government of the Philippines has indicated a desire for talks to solve its territorial dispute with China, igniting hopes that a fresh atmosphere can replace the chaos in the South China Sea that has characterized the past few years.

China has responded warmly by vowing to treat the Philippines as a "partner of priority" in regional cooperation.

Salvador Panelo, spokesman for President-Elect Rodrigo Duterte, said on Thursday that the incoming leader has "determined on friendly ties with China".

"The new Philippine government will carry out bilateral talks with China," Panelo said in Manila, according to China News Service. He made the remarks at an evening party marking the 41st anniversary of diplomatic ties. Duterte will take office on June 30.

Chinese Ambassador to the Philippines Zhao Jianhua said at the event that good relations between Beijing and Manila are in line with the basic interests of the two peoples, the news report said.

"The Philippines is an important country on the Maritime Silk Road and a founding member of the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank," he said.

China is willing to view the Philippines as "a partner of priority" in the Belt and Road Initiative, in regional trade, industrial capacity cooperation and other areas, the report quoted Zhao as saying.

"We're willing to work with the new government of the Philippines to draw a new blueprint to lead bilateral relations back to the channel of healthy development," Zhao said, drawing applause from the audience.

Perfecto Yasay, the incoming Philippine foreign minister, said on Thursday in an interview published in the Chinese Commercial News that he will "invite China to join us to ensure peaceful settlement of our conflicts and difficulties".

Duterte said earlier that he would consider bilateral dialogue with China on the South China Sea issue if multilateral talks fail to make progress.

China's Foreign Ministry issued a statement on Wednesday insisting on bilateral negotiations with the Philippines to solve the South China Sea issue. It said Manila had shut the door to dialogue by seeking to settle the dispute through the international tribunal of the Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague.

A ruling by the international arbitration body is expected within weeks. The process was launched by the Philippines to challenge China's territorial claims in the South China Sea.

Beijing has expressed strong opposition to the move, the Foreign Ministry statement said.

The Chinese Society of International Law on Friday released a paper saying any award by the tribunal is "null and void". It said the body's claim of jurisdiction, issued in October, filled with errors both of fact and the application of law. It cited six major errors by the tribunal.

"Political decisions will have no legal effect," the paper said.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Anjo

ahojunk said:


> _President Duterte shows he has balls, he is pursuing a more independent foreign policy, i.e. charting a different course to that of Aquino. US will not be happy, but will US stay silent? What will US do next?_



One of the reasons there's so much friction in the South China Sea is that the Aquino administration put too much strategic faith in one partner alone. For his entire term(6 years), dialogue with China has been pretty much shut down. Duterte in essence at least, wants to maintain functional relations with China. This of course is quite an unpopular notion amongst the pro-US Filipino people.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ahojunk

_China is quite active on the diplomatic front lately. It certainly helps if you have a big wallet too!..._

------
China Voices Appreciation for Support on South China Sea Issue
2016-06-14 20:26:59 Xinhua Web Editor: Fei Fei

China Tuesday thanked countries for their support on the South China Sea issue.

Sierra Leone and Kenya recently announced their approval of China's stance. The number of countries that support China now amounts to 60.

"We appreciate these countries for their understanding of right and wrong and belief in fairness and justice," Foreign Ministry spokesperson Lu Kang said at a daily press briefing.

"The so-called South China Sea issue is an issue between China and littoral countries of the South China Sea," said Lu, adding that China has opposed the internationalization of the South China Sea issue from the very beginning.

Both the 2002 Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea (DOC) and the "dual-track approach" recently offered by ASEAN advocate friendly and direct negotiation by the countries directly involved, Lu said.

"Following this path, freedom and security of navigation in the area have never been a problem," Lu said.

"Manipulation of public opinion cannot cover the truth," Lu said, stressing that international society will not be represented by seven or eight countries.

Lu said in recent years, certain countries have deliberately produced tension in the region for their own benefit.

"They incite individual countries in the region to break their promises. In the name of 'protecting rules', they are undermining rules and international law," Lu said.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ahojunk

Sierra Leone Urges Peaceful Resolution to South China Sea Dispute 

Sierra Leone's Foreign Minister Samura Kamara has called for the peaceful resolution of the South China Sea dispute through friendly negotiations and honoring bilateral agreements and provisions of the declaration on the conduct of parties in the South China Sea.

Talking to Xinhua in an exclusive interview prior to his visit to China starting on Monday, Kamara emphasized the need for all parties to "exercise respect for the rights of each other as sovereign states and contracting states of the U.N. Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS)".

He also urged international judicial institutions or arbitral tribunals to fully respect declarations of optional exception made by each country under Article 298 of the UNCLOS.

He affirmed that Sierra Leone is behind China in looking forward to a "mutually respectful solution among the parties that are involved in the South China Sea".

Kamara's visit to China follows a visit by Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi to the West African country in August last year.

Samura Kamara described the relationship with China as growing day by day, noting that the relationship is based on mutual respect and understanding each other's concerns.

He said Sierra Leone would further seek support from China in implementing the country's post-Ebola recovery program as well as in areas including agriculture, education, water resources, revival of the private enterprise and the health sector so that the country will not fall victim to what happened during the Ebola crisis.

He also paid tribute to China's support to the country mentioning the Parliament's building, the national stadium and the newly constructed foreign affairs ministry edifice as some of the symbols of China's contributions to Sierra Leone's development.

Samura Kamara was also thankful to the Chinese support in the country's Ebola crisis which he said helped "galvanize" international support.

(Xinhua News Agency June 11, 2016)

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ahojunk

_Not all western journalist are bad. There is a small handful of decent ones..._

--------
Ben Reynolds：The New York Times is wrong about the South China Sea
(People's Daily Online) 09:52, June 17, 2016

In an recent article wrote for China-US Focus.com titled “The New York Times is Wrong about the South China Sea”, U.S. writer and Foreign Policy analyst Ben Reynolds pointed out that one editorial of the New York Times “echoes a number of mistaken arguments that are popular with American policymakers”, and hoped that the New York Times could be more “thorough and careful with the facts” in future pieces, instead of selling the American public on yet “another disastrous foreign intervention”.

“Most significantly, the Times lends credence to arguments that dramatically inflate the threat that China poses to the region and the United States,” he wrote, “this editorial demonstrates the difficulties that face American advocates for peace in a media environment dominated by uncritical support for U.S. foreign policy”.

Reynolds argued that the editorial has misconstrued key points about international norms in the South China Sea and in Asia as a whole. For example, the“freedom of navigation” being asserted by U.S. is for U.S. military vessels, not oil tankers. Needless to say China never poses a threat to the trade in this area.

He stressed that the newspaper has demonstrated different attitudes towards China and Vietnam on the construction activities in the South China Sea. To China, the project is “aggressive and outrageous tactic”; but to Vietnam, U.S. ally, the ongoing military outposts construction just being on-purposely ignored.

“Misleading the American people about U.S.-China rivalry in the South China Sea with omissions and half-truths is the job of the Defense Department, not the press”, he mocked. “Until major American press outlets reorient their outlook on U.S. foreign policy toward China, it will remain our responsibility to correct dangerous and mistaken ideas that can only contribute to hostility between the American and Chinese peoples”.

(People's Daily)

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ahojunk

_China is complaining..._
--------
China condemns Indonesia's use of force in South China Sea

BEIJING, June 19 (Xinhua) -- Chinese foreign ministry on Sunday strongly protested over Indonesia navy warships' harassment of Chinese fishermen in the South China Sea.

Chinese fishing boats were harassed and shot at by several Indonesian navy warships in a disputed fishing ground in the South China Sea on Friday. One crew member was injured. Another fishing boat and seven crew were detained.

"China strongly protests and condemns such excessive use of force," spokesperson Hua Chunying said in a press release.

The incident took place in a traditional Chinese fishing ground where China and Indonesia have overlapping maritime rights claims.

Indonesia's actions violated international laws including the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), as well as the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea (DOC), and harmed the lives and property of Chinese fishermen, Hua said.

"China urges Indonesia to stop taking action that escalates tension, complicates issues, or affects peace and stability," Hua said.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ahojunk

_Currently, there is an existing operator of cruises to Xisha Islands. 
This new competitor will give the Chinese customer more choices which will result in better value..._

---------
COSCO to launch cruise business of Xisha Islands
China Daily, June 21, 2016





_Tourists at the Xisha Islands, Hainan Province. [Photo/Xinhua] _


China COSCO Shipping Corp, which owns the world's largest fleet of specialized carriers and multipurpose vessels, plans to launch cruise lines in the South China Sea next month.

The first route is expected to travel from Sanya to the Yongle Island, part of the Xisha Islands in Hainan province.

"It is practical to stimulate the local economy through development of tourism, logistics and infrastructure facilities," Xu Lirong, chairman of COSCO Shipping, said over the weekend at the Boao Forum for Entrepreneurs in Boao, Hainan province.

China COSCO Shipping signed a contract with China National Travel Service (HK) Group Corp and China Communications Construction Co Ltd in late April, to jointly establish a cruise company to offer tourism services in the South China Sea.

They will share resources and management expertise to provide cruise services to major islands of the Xisha. They will also work together in areas such as operating multimodal transportation, cruise ships, wharves and ports, storage and logistics.

Under the framework, the cruises will be managed by Dalian-based COSCO Shipping Ferry Co Ltd.

The COSCO Shipping subsidiary, however, does have a competitor on this route. Hainan Strait Shipping Co Ltd has been operating cruise services between Sanya and the Xisha Islands for more than two years. The Haikou-based ferry company operated 48 voyages carrying 8,430 people to the Xisha Islands.

Dong Liwan, a professor at Shanghai Maritime University, said that even though shipping, tourism and construction companies are enthusiastic about developing the cruise market in the South China Sea, they must be aware that it still takes time and resources to improve service and logistics facilities in those islands.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Solomon2

ahojunk said:


> The incoming new government of the Philippines has indicated a desire for talks to solve its territorial dispute with China, igniting hopes that a fresh atmosphere can replace the chaos in the South China Sea that has characterized the past few years. China has responded warmly by vowing to treat the Philippines as a "partner of priority" in regional cooperation.


This looks like an armed conflict can be avoided. But does China really want to avoid it? Doesn't the desire to wipe out the perceived stain of abuse by others demand a shooting war to achieve satisfaction?


----------



## bobsm

*UK law expert: South China Sea arbitration lacks legal basis*
(People's Daily) 14:28, June 22, 2016

A research paper written by British law expert recently disclosed the weak points of the arbitral tribunal, who rendered an award on jurisdiction and admissibility of “South China Sea Arbitration” Initiated by the Philippines.

The paper was published in Chinese Journal of International Law. *The author, Chris Whomersley, former deputy legal adviser to the British Foreign and Commonwealth Office, revealed that the arbitral tribunal was outside its jurisdiction when issues were related to maritime delimitation and disputes over territorial sovereignty.*

He stressed that although the Philippines specifically disclaimed any wish to seek a ruling on either the sovereignty of land territory or maritime delimitation, “questions of territorial sovereignty, status of features and maritime delimitation are inextricably linked, to consider only one element out of these three is unreal and artificial, and worse it risks producing a distorted result.”

He pointed out that the tribunal “failed to recognize that the fundamental dispute is about the sovereignty over the features in the South China Sea, and that the status of the features, such as whether they are low-tide elevations or 'rocks,' is a question which can only logically be answered once the sovereignty dispute has been resolved.”

“The Tribunal should have got below the surface of the Philippines' claims, but it did not,” he wrote.


http://en.people.cn/n3/2016/0622/c90000-9075900.html

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## bobsm

*You have chosen the wrong opponent: People’s Daily warns USA of the game of 'deterrence' against China*
(People's Daily Online) 15:00, June 23, 2016


People’s Daily strongly rebuked the U.S. for flexing of military might repeatedly in the South China Sea in an opinion piece published on the flagship newspaper on June 22. The article has sparked heated discussion among internet users around the world over U.S. foreign policies.

“Regardless of how many times it may have gone smoothly in other parts of the world, the U.S. has chosen the wrong opponent by selecting China for this type of game,” read the article, commenting the recent drills conducted by two American aircraft carriers in the waters near the Philippines, which was touted by U.S. navy official as “deterrence” against China.

The following is a full translation of the article.

Two American aircraft carriers conducted practice drills in the waters not far from the coast of the Philippines islands in recent days. John M. Richardson, Chief of Naval Operations let it be known on June 20 during a meeting at the Center for a New American Security that it was not at all ordinary for the United States to dispatch two aircraft carriers to one single ocean region, and that it represents the commitment of the U.S. to maintain security in this region, and that it also serves as “deterrence” for related countries.

Conveying a so-called message about security through the exhibition of military might, and furthermore describing the events as an act of deterrence is something that the U.S. has done far too many times. Regardless of how many times it may have gone smoothly in other parts of the world the U.S. has chosen the wrong opponent by selecting China for this type of game. Behind all of this is lack of patience and brassy moves and it also reveals a nature of hegemony beneath the surface.

*Statements from high ranking officials in the U.S. military as well as the aircraft carrier drills themselves once again demonstrate that the U.S. is definitely not a regional security safeguard, and instead precisely a trouble maker. In the regard of the South China Sea issue, the U.S. is playing an extremely destructive role.*

For a period of time, the U.S., by making what appears to be a show being very much in earnest to advertise militarization dangers in the South China Sea is putting the hat that balances regional peace and stability onto China’s head in a sly manner . Yet in reality, what people see is that the U.S. aircraft carriers have arrived, that the U.S. strategic bombers have arrived, that the U.S. guided missile destroyers sailing with a flag representing “freedom of navigation” have not only approached near to Chinese islands, the Americans together with allies have conducted military drills one after another, so the question is who is promoting the militarization of the South China Sea, who is trying to turn the South China Sea into a gunpowder bucket?

The United States is a country outside the territory of the South China Sea, coming from one side of the Pacific Ocean all the way to the other side of the Pacific Ocean to demonstrate their military power is for the purpose of intensifying the situation and to provoke disturbances and break peaceful stability and then to fish in troubled water and make an effort to maintain hegemony thereat at all costs. This deceitful business is despised in the regard of international law, and it is also harmful to the security benefits of the country.

The U.S. once indicated that it would guarantee to China that it would not take sides regarding South China Sea matters. However, the aforementioned behaviors conducted by the U.S. military indicate that it was false, and also allow people to see clearly that the origin of disputes in the South China Sea is the desired provocation on the behalf of the U.S.

In the regard of the South China Sea issue, China’s will to maintain national sovereignty and territorial integrity is as solid as a boulder. If it is not China’s then we don’t need a single piece of it, but if there is a piece of land that is supposed to be China’s then it must be maintained. Any person should not have dreams or fantasies about this.

China will continue to maintain strict supervision of the sea area conditions and will take appropriate measures should there be any incidences, and defend against the occurrence of situations that harm Chinese territorial sovereignty or security benefits. China’s will and actions equate to something that the U.S. should be clear about. China will not let other countries have their way with their temper or to act arbitrarily regardless of the rules in the regard of South China Sea stability.

Commentary: U.S. display of military power act of hegemony, edited and translated from 美国，炫耀武力就是搞霸权！source: People's Daily

http://en.people.cn/n3/2016/0623/c90000-9076522.html

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## cochine

*China is threatening to leave a major UN sea treaty—and there’s nothing the US can say about it*
Tricky maneuvering in the South China Sea. (Reuters/Edgar Su)

June 21, 2016
Over 160 countries and the European Union have signed on to the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (Unclos). The United States, however, has long declined to do so.

Now, China has indicated that it might exit the convention if an upcoming ruling by an international tribunal runs counter to its questionable position: that nearly the entire South China Sea is its territory.

The US is urging China to respect the upcoming ruling, which could happen this month and is widely expected to favor the Philippines. In 2013 the Philippines petitioned an international tribunal—the Permanent Court of Arbitration, in The Hague—to rule on whether China’s “nine-dash line” (see below) is valid, under Unclos.

US secretary of defense Ash Carter, speaking at the Shangri-La Dialogue earlier this month, stressed the importance of China respecting the tribunal’s ruling:

The United States views the upcoming ruling by the UN Arbitral Tribunal on the South China Sea as an opportunity for China and the rest of the region to recommit to a principled future, to renewed diplomacy, and to lowering tensions, rather than raising them. All of us should come together to ensure this opportunity is realized.

That position is undercut, of course, by the US’s own failure to join Unclos.

Despite efforts by the George W. Bush and Obama administrations, and support from the US business community, environmental groups, and the military, the US Senate has never ratified the convention. Ratification has been blocked for years by a few conservative Republican senators, with Oklahoma’s James Inhofe playing a prominent role. Many US conservatives consider involvement in some international organizations and treaties as detrimental to national interests, and as an infringement on national sovereignty.

While she was secretary of state, Hillary Clinton said in 2012 that opposition to the treaty was “based in ideology and mythology, not in facts, evidence, or the consequences of our continuing failure to accede to the treaty.”

In 2009, China officially submitted (pdf) its nine-dash-line map to the United Nations. The map shows most of the South China Sea being enclosed by the line. The accompanying text included this passage:

China has indisputable sovereignty over the islands in the South China Sea and the adjacent waters, and enjoys sovereign rights and jurisdiction over the relevant waters as well as the seabed and subsoil thereof (see attached map).

Vietnam, Indonesia, and the Philippines subsequently objected to it. They asserted, among other things, that China’s claims, as reflected in the map, are without basis under the convention. They noted the line overlaps with the exclusive economic zones (EEZs) of other nations. Under Unclos, nations have exclusive rights to exploiting resources in their EEZs, which extend 200 nautical miles from the shore.

Some worry that China might become more aggressive after a ruling that doesn’t go its way. Indeed, almost immediately after the Philippines filed the case with the tribunal, China began setting about building, and later militarizing, artificial islands from which it could project its emerging maritime power.

In a show of strength of its own, the US Navy recently deployed not one but two aircraft carrier strike groups to the South China Sea—a rare move.

Now the US, while trying to tell China to abide by the international law, faces a credibility gap. If China leaves the convention, as it’s now threatened to do, there’s little the US can say about it.

http://qz.com/712170/china-is-threa...y-and-theres-nothing-the-us-can-say-about-it/

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Jeffymoen

cirr said:


> 12000-ton CCG 2901 docked in Sanya，Hainan Island
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Surprise it is CCG 2901， not its sistership 3901.


Hello, this is Precisetool, a manufacturer providing wire harness solution and producing crimping tools for wire harness and cable lugs. We used to cooprate with TE Connectivity and Vishay. The Main products include crimping tools, assembly tools, wind speed sensors, plastic and metal mold. The products are produced according to MIL(m22520/2-01, m22520/1-01, m22520/7-01,etc.). Meanwhile, we also develop for customers with special requirements for the products. In each section of designing, material selection, manufacturing and service, we make every efforts to provide the best experience, low price but high standard service.



cnleio said:


> @BoQ77 ... one thing we should admit both doing the same thing in SCS, but it's the typical MAN vs MACHINE Game.
> 
> MAN: Vietnamese doing your best
> View attachment 307611
> 
> View attachment 307612
> 
> View attachment 307624
> 
> 
> 
> MACHINE: Chinese doing our best
> View attachment 307613
> 
> View attachment 307614
> 
> View attachment 307615
> 
> View attachment 307616
> 
> View attachment 307617


Hello, this is Precisetool, a manufacturer providing wire harness solution and producing crimping tools for wire harness and cable lugs. We used to cooprate with TE Connectivity and Vishay. The Main products include crimping tools, assembly tools, wind speed sensors, plastic and metal mold. The products are produced according to MIL(m22520/2-01, m22520/1-01, m22520/7-01,etc.). Meanwhile, we also develop for customers with special requirements for the products. In each section of designing, material selection, manufacturing and service, we make every efforts to provide the best experience, low price but high standard service.

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/south-china-sea-news-discussions.196058/page-697#ixzz4CSUru8N4


----------



## cochine

.
*China’s illegal activities in East Sea must be ended: FM spokesman*
VNA FRIDAY, JUNE 24, 2016 - 17:03:47 





Foreign Ministry Spokesperson Le Hai Binh (Photo: VNA)

*Hanoi (VNA) –* Illegal activities that have been continuously deployed by China cannot change the fact that Vietnam has sovereignty over Hoang Sa (Paracel) and Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelagos, said Foreign Ministry Spokesperson Le Hai Binh on June 24. 

Binh made the statement while fielding queries from reporters concerning information from Chinese media over China’s construction on and plans related to the two archipelagos. 

China has continued building and operating a number of facilities on Truong Sa, including a hospital on the Chu Thap (Fiery Cross) Reef and a farm on Xubi (Subi) Reef, while its state-run shipping company COSCO said it plans to launch tours to Hoang Sa. 

The FM Spokesman said: “Vietnam has repeatedly expressed its clear and consistent stance on the subject. Vietnam has indisputable sovereignty over Hoang Sa and Truong Sa archipelagos. Either illegal construction and use of facilities on Truong Sa or the arrangement of tours to Hoang Sa carried out by China seriously violate Vietnam’s sovereignty over the two archipelagoes.” 

“Vietnam strongly objects to these activities. Vietnam requests China to respect the country’s sovereignty over the two archipelagoes, to immediately put an end to these violations without similar repetition in the future, and to stringently comply with the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the East Sea (DOC), practically contributing to maintaining peace and security in the East Sea,” Binh stated.-VNA


----------



## ahojunk

_As the verdict nears, China is very active on the diplomatic front....._

--------
Brazilian expert supports China's sovereignty over South China Sea islands
Source: Xinhua | 2016-06-26 22:59:30 | Editor: huaxia

RIO DE JANEIRO, June 26 (Xinhua) -- China's sovereignty over the South China Sea islands has already been established and there are no legal reasons for the Philippines' claim for the sovereignty over the Huangyan Island, a Brazilian expert has said.

The islands belong to China and not to the Philippines, and that is a matter already settled decades ago, Carlos Tavares, an author of 10 books on China and a longtime expert of China-Brazil relations, told Xinhua.

He criticized the Philippines for its decision to resort to an arbitration by the Permanent Court of Arbitration (PCA) based in The Hague, the Netherlands.

The Philippines unilaterally initiated an arbitration from the PCA over the South China Sea disputes in 2013. The Chinese government has reiterated its non-acceptance and non-participation stance in the case.

"This sort of conflict should be solved within Asia's borders, preferably by the two parties only," Tavares said.

On the U.S. influence in the case, Tavares said that it was inappropriate for the North-American country to meddle in matters of the Asian nations.

He said that the United States should keep itself out of Asian matters, leaving to Asian nations the task of solving their own disputes.

"*China is not interfering in the matters of the North Atlantic, so why is the U.S. trying to meddle in the matters of the South China Sea?*" he said.

Tavares remained optimistic about the resolution of the territorial dispute, noting that the issue should be settled as soon as possible.

The Brazilian expert hoped that the new Philippine government would solve its dispute with China through dialogue.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## cochine

*Philippines urgently needs multi-role warships*

June 29, 2016 PNA Nation 0



The pressing need for warships capable of carrying out a variety of defense missions made Philippine naval planners decide on a proposed frigate design capable of engaging air, surface and sub-surface targets. Rear Admiral Roland Joseph Mercado, Western Command chief and head of the Philippine Navy (PN) technical working group head said there is nothing new on compressing three warfare requirements on the proposed frigates as it is the rule of thumb nowadays in warship design.

Some examples of multi-mission frigates include Germany’s Mekong class, Australia’s Anzac, and Canada’s Halifax warships.

The Philippines is in the market for two missile-capable frigates with a budget of PHP18 billion, with PHP16 billion going to the construction of the ship and PHP2 billion for its munitions.

Mercado declined to give exact specifics of the frigate program but said the two ship can “must steam in speeds in excess of 25 knots and can engage surface, air, and surface threats”.

Aside from this, the ships must be also capable of helping in the PN’s humanitarian assistance and disaster relief missions.

He expects the ships to be in service within three to four years.

Earlier, Mercado said representatives of the PN have visited and conducted post-qualification inspections on South Korea’s Hyundai Heavy Industries (HHI), one of the proponents in the country’s missile-capable frigate project.

HHI was one of the six foreign shipbuilders who participated in the project when it formally opened for bidding sometimes in 2014. It is based in Ulsan, South Korea

He added that post-qualification inspection on HHI is “very favorable” and said PN representatives focused on the proponent’s capability to meet the project’s “technical proposals and technical requirements”.

Post-qualification inspections took place some three weeks ago, Mercado added.

http://www.update.ph/2016/06/philippines-urgently-needs-multi-role-warships/6853


----------



## bobsm

*South China Sea arbitration to have negative impact on international rule of law: experts*
By Pei Guangjiang, Hu Zexi and Xu Liqun (People's Daily) 10:16, June 30, 2016

Some 30 international law experts gathered at Hague on Sunday for a seminar in which many have voiced their doubts and concerns over the negative impact that the South China Sea arbitration will bring to the rule of law at the international level.

Hu Dekun, dean of Wuhan University's China Institute of Boundary and Ocean Studies, told the People’s Daily that experts focused on whether the tribunal’s interpretation of the United Nations Convention on the Law of Sea (UNCLOS) is impartial and comprehensive and if other valid interpretations from different perspectives are possible. Attending experts agreed that the tribunal’s interpretation cannot represent the common opinion of the international law community.

According to Yi Xianhe, chief researcher at the Institute of International Law of Wuhan University, experts attending the seminar hold that the arbitration violates the principles of various international laws.

The tribunal failed to correctly identify and verify the disputes between China and the Philippines and the formation of the court cannot represent major existing legal systems, Yi pointed out.

“The Philippines covers all the expense of the court and the process procedure has been going really fast,” Yi explained, adding that the verdict on the jurisdiction lacks a complete understanding of China’s views and necessary legal analysis.

“Some arbitrators even changed their stances without any explanation, which violates the principle of consistency,” Yi said, stressing that all these give the legal circle reasons to worry about the negative impact of the case.

*Hu noted that the experts agreed on the following issues: First, the South China Sea arbitration is one-sided and the tribunal has no jurisdiction over territorial and maritime delimitation issues between China and the Philippines.

Moreover, unilaterally filed arbitration is illegal. The Philippines has deliberately ignored China’s statement of optional exception under Article 298 of the UNCLOS in 2006, breaking the consensus reached between both sides that to solve the maritime dispute through negotiation.

“This is a precedent that we cannot set,” Hu emphasized. “In addition, from the historical perspective, islands in the South China Sea have been part of China’s territory since ancient times. The arbitration submitted by the Philippines shows no respect to historical facts.”*

The seminar was co-organized by Wuhan University's China Institute of Boundary and Ocean Studies and Leiden University's Grotius Center for International Legal Studies, which attracted international maritime law experts from Asia, Africa, the US and Europe.

Chinese experts attending the event are from Wuhan University, Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, Xiamen University and some other renowned institutions. Foreign experts include Sreenivasa Rao Pemmaraju, former chairman of the UN International Law Commission, Judge of the International Court of Justice (ICJ) and chief legal adviser in India's Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Abdul Koroma, former ICJ judge and Tom Zwart, law professor at Utrecht University in the Netherlands. 


http://en.people.cn/n3/2016/0630/c90000-9079717.html

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## TaiShang

*China to hold military drills around Xisha islands*
2016-07-04

China will hold military exercises this week in the South China Sea *ahead of a UN arbitration ruling*, with analysts saying the drills are meant for peacekeeping while *showing that China is capable of defending its territorial sovereignty*.

The Maritime Safety Administration of China on Sunday posted a notice on its official website, saying that military exercises in certain waters of the South China Sea will be held from Tuesday to July 11, and all civilian vessels will be prohibited from those areas.

The exercises will finish one day before the UN arbitration court announces its decision on the South China Sea case initiated by the Philippines against China.

"China gave coordinates for the drills that cover an area from the east of China's Hainan Island down to and including the Xisha Islands," Reuters reported Sunday.

The Hong Kong Economic Times reported Wednesday that warships from the three fleets of the Chinese navy were spotted at the Sanya military port, Hainan. *The warships allegedly included the guided missile destroyer Shenyang under the North China Sea Fleet, the guided missile destroyer Ningbo and the missile frigate Chaozhou under the East China Sea Fleet.*

An official from the defense ministry told the Global Times on Thursday that *this is a routine exercise according to an annual plan.*

"The timing of the exercises in the South China Sea is subtle, but it's not necessary to link it with the arbitration, because the exercise is a routine activity that was planned a long time ago," Liu Feng, an expert on Chinese maritime issues, told the Global Times on Sunday.

Wang Xiaopeng, a maritime border expert at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, told the Global Times the drill is a normal naval activity to methodically maintain regional stability, which is not connected with specific events or targeted at certain countries.

The situation in the South China Sea is sensitive. However, given the sluggish global economy, it is more essential to improve regional cooperation, instead of making trouble like the US and Japan, Liu said.

Currently, there are some unstable elements in the area, mainly because of persistent intervention from the US and the arbitration case initiated by the Philippines, which have overshadowed the security of the area, Wang said.

China will continue constructing on reefs in the area and improve naval power in order to maintain regional peace and show the outsiders that China has the capability to maintain its own sovereign security, Liu noted.

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## cochine

*Vietnam opposes China’s military drill in Hoang Sa*
Monday, 07/04/2016, 19:29
VOV.VN - Vietnam raises objection to China’s military drill in Hoang Sa (Paracel) archipelago, said Foreign Ministry spokesperson Le Hai Binh in response to reporters’ question on Vietnam’s reaction to China’s notice on conducting military drills from July 5- 11.






The military drills are transpiring in an area that covers Vietnam’s Hoang Sa archipelago, he said, adding that China’s action once again violates Vietnam’s sovereignty over Hoang Sa (Paracel) archipelago and runs counter to common perception of the two countries’ leaders, and violates international law including the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) and the Declaration on the Conduct of Party in the East Sea (DOC).
Vietnam strongly opposes this action and demands that China respect the country’s sovereignty, act responsibly, and immediately end and not to conduct acts that threaten security and safety of navigation in the East Sea or escalate tension in the region.

VOV


----------



## ahojunk

_Two more lighthouses from China on the way._

--------
Lighthouses at 2 reefs in Nansha to operate soon
CRI, June 7, 2016

It's been reported that lighthouses on two reefs in the South China Sea will be put into use at the end of the year.

Workers are stepping up the construction of the two lighthouses on Meiji and Yongshu reefs.

They were designed to provide navigation services such as positioning reference and navigation safety information to ships in the vicinity.

The lighthouse on Meiji Reef is over 60 meters high and is the tallest of all the structures on the Nansha Islands.

It has a range of over 20 nautical miles.

Meanwhile, a modern hospital will also be completed on Yongshu Reef later this month.

In April, China finished the construction of a lighthouse on Zhubi Reef, also in the South China Sea area.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## bobsm

*Taiwan to not compromise on sovereignty in South China Sea: official*
2016/07/04 19:51:32

Taipei, July 4 (CNA) Foreign Minister David Lee (李大維) said Monday that Taiwan has no way of knowing how an international court will rule in a dispute between the Philippines and China over the South China Sea, but it will stand up for its sovereignty.

"Basically, we will insist on national sovereignty and will not compromise on it," Lee said at a legislative hearing.

The Permanent Court of Arbitration in the Dutch city of The Hague will give a ruling on July 12 on the dispute between the two countries.

The Philippines has brought the case to the international court to undermine China's claims that it has sovereignty over South China Sea waters.

Manila has argued that the land formations China claims in the South China Sea are nothing more than reefs and therefore not entitled to 200-nautical-mile exclusive economic zones, which buttress Beijing's insistence that it has sovereignty over those waters.

China has repeatedly rejected the tribunal's jurisdiction over the case since it was filed, and its Maritime Safety Administration has announced that it will hold military exercises around the Paracel Islands in the South China Sea from July 5 to 11.

Though Taiwan is not a party to the case, its claims in the South China Sea are similar to China's, and Taiping Island (also known as Itu Aba), which is controlled by Taiwan, was brought up in testimony during court hearings.

Should the court rule that Taiping Island is not an island under international law, it would also undercut some of Taiwan's claims.

Taiwan has no way of knowing what the ruling will say, but the government has prepared for various scenarios, and Taiwan will make clear its stance when the ruling is announced on July 12, Lee said.

Six countries -- Taiwan, China, the Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia and Brunei -- claim part or all of the South China Sea. 


http://focustaiwan.tw/news/aipl/201607040026.aspx

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## grey boy 2

Nice pictures on (6/5/2016)




















Very nice development, progressing day by day

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## yusheng

TaiShang said:


> *China to hold military drills around Xisha islands*
> 2016-07-04
> 
> China will hold military exercises this week in the South China Sea.



in the red area, no other ship should be there

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## ahojunk

yusheng said:


> in the red area, no other ship should be there
> 
> View attachment 315940


.
This is quite a large area and covers most of Xisha Islands.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## ahojunk

Naval drill is fully within country's 'sovereign rights'
China Daily, July 7, 2016

China said its naval drill in the South China Sea is within its sovereign rights, and it urged the Philippines to come back to the negotiating table to solve its maritime disputes with China regardless of an arbitrary tribunal's ruling.

"The drill is a routine exercise the Chinese Navy carries out according to the annual plan. It is within China's sovereign rights and is not targeting any specific countries," Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong Lei said on Wednesday.

Hong made the remarks after Vietnam claimed the drill was violating Vietnamese sovereignty.

The Ministry of National Defense confirmed on Tuesday that China would hold a drill in the area between Hainan Island and the Xisha Islands in the first 10 days of July and that military equipment including multiple ships and fixed-wing aircraft would participate.

The Defense Ministry said the drill "aims at improving the military's ability to respond to security threats and implement missions".

"The Xisha Islands are China's inherent territory. There is no dispute of this," Hong reiterated on Wednesday. He asked the parties concerned to "objectively view" the drill.

The drill takes place ahead of ruling expected on July 12 in the arbitration case the Philippines filed in 2013 against China over disputes in the South China Sea.

"China will not accept any country's claim or action based on the so-called ruling", Hong said, after Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte is reported to have said the Philippines is ready to talk to China if the ruling is in the Philippines' favor.

Hong reiterated that the arbitration case filed by the Aquino III administration is "illegal and invalid from the start", and he urged the new Philippine government to "abandon the old administration's wrong practice" and "come back to the proper path of talking and negotiating with China".

Xu Liping, a researcher at the National Institute of International Strategy of the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, said China is not concerned about whom the ruling will favor as it has already made clear that it will not accept or participate in, acknowledge or implement the ruling.

Xu suggested that the Philippines cool down and be low key about the ruling. He said he is "cautiously optimistic" that the Philippines will return to the consensus it reached with China, which is to deal with its maritime disputes with China through bilateral talks.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## cochine

.
*Vietnam protests against Chinese drills in South China Sea*
By Associated Press

Published: 03:24 GMT, 5 July 2016 | Updated: 03:24 GMT, 5 July 2016


HANOI, Vietnam (AP) — Vietnam has protested against a Chinese military drill in the contested South China Sea and has demanded that China stop the actions it says are a threat to security and maritime safety.

China announced that it will carry out the week-long military drills on and around the Paracel islands starting Tuesday. They will finish on the eve of a ruling by an international tribunal in a case filed by the Philippines challenging China's claims to most of the South China Sea.

Foreign Ministry spokesman Le Hai Binh said in a statement posted late Monday on the ministry's website that China's moves seriously violate Vietnamese sovereignty and demanded that China stop the drills.

"Vietnam strongly protests and demanded that China respect Vietnam's sovereignty, behave responsibly, immediately stop and do not take actions that threaten security, maritime safety in the East Sea or escalate tension in this region," Binh said, referring to the South China Sea.

China's military exercise comes as the Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague is expected to issue a ruling on July 12 on a case brought by the Philippines in 2013 contesting China's claims in the South China Sea.

Vietnam, China and Taiwan all claim the Paracel islands which are occupied by China, and those three along with the Philippines, Malaysia and Brunei claim all or parts of the Spratly islands, which are believed to rich in natural resources and occupy one of the world's busiest sea lanes.

China's massive land reclamation projects and increased militarization of the seven reefs and atolls in the Spratlys over the past two years have raised serious concerns in the region.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/ap...ese-drills-South-China-Sea.html#ixzz4DtoqPsjq

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cnleio

Subi island 2016-06-05

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## cnleio

Fierry Cross island 2016-06-03

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## cnleio



Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## cochine

*Before the “sensitive” moment, China exerts its 'muscle"*
Updated at Wednesday, 29 Jun 2016, 17:14
_The Hanoitimes_ - China`s motive since the Philippines promoted legal solutions to the East Sea dispute, is to focus on developing its "muscle power" to assert sovereignty in the field.






A vessel in the area where China builds an artificial island at the Chau Vien (Cuarteron) Reef on October 4th, 2014. Photo: Asahi Shimbun

Last week 180 delegates from Asian and European countries discussed marine security at a conference themed “Marine security and development: International cooperation and European-Asian experience sharing” in Ha Long city, Quang Ninh province.

During the 2-day conference, delegates discussed ways to enhance cooperation in dealing with marine security issues and affirmed the need to foster cooperation, amidst the escalation of strategic competition between countries. They also talked about the upcoming ruling by the Permanent Court of Arbitration (PCA) on the "East Sea case" as well as the reaction of the parties involved.

On this issue, VietNamNet would like to introduce the following analysis.


*China’s ignorance and use of "muscle"*

Recently at the Shangri-La Dialogue 2016, US Defense Secretary Ash Carter acknowledged that the upcoming decision of the PCA about the East Sea case is an opportunity for China and the countries in the region to re-commit the principles of behavior, to show a new foreign policy, and to reduce conflict. The legal path and the other mechanism for resolving conflicts through peaceful negotiation and dialogue are the shortest way to promote security and to address the security issues globally, especially in Asia - Pacific.

Meanwhile, China's attitude to the upcoming verdict of the PCA is completely contrary. Also at Shangrila Dialogue, Admiral Sun Jianguo, deputy chief of general staff of the Chinese People’s Liberation Army, emphasized that China would not accept the decision made by PCA on the East Sea case.

“On the one hand, we have noticed that some countries apply international laws only when it is convenient. On the other hand, they support allies confronting China,” Sun said. “China firmly opposes such behavior…. We do not make trouble, but we have no fear of trouble."

The two statements represented entirely conflicting stances in approach to the East Sea dispute and they were watched very carefully by the international community.

This is the "sensitive" moment as the time for the PCA to make the decision on the East Sea case against China lodged by the Philippines is coming. Most of the delegates to the Shangri-La Dialogue 2016 paid attention to every move and of Beijing, such as rumors on the decision on the establishment of the ADIZ (Air Defense Identification Zone) in the East Sea as a response to the decision of the PCA.

These moves strengthen the trend that has been developed over the past three years: Since the Philippines promoted the legal process against China, this country has ignored it, focused on its "strength" - developing "muscles" to assert sovereignty in the field.

According to Prof. Carlyle A. Thayer (University of New South Wales, Australia) there are four main motives for China’s construction of artificial islands in the East Sea in recent times: rising nationalism, aquatic resources, mineral resources, and strategic geographical location.

He said that the favorable geopolitical position is the most important reason, because China is trying to deal with the rebalancing strategy of the Obama administration in the Asia - Pacific. Accordingly, China wants to assert sovereignty over the East Sea to ensure maritime communications and avoid the risk of interference from the south by the US Navy and Air Force in the future.

In contrast, the US strategy, as Dr. Patrick Cronin (American Institute for New Security Policy Studies) told the International Conference on the East Sea dispute at Yale University last May, includes five key elements, which are the catalyst and decisive determinants for the foreign policy of the United States in the East Sea in the coming time. They are: (1) closely linked with the re-balance policy in the Asia - Pacific region; (2) bilateral relationship between the US and China; (3) decisive role of the next president of the US on the US participation; (4) the strategy carried out comprehensively, not just limited to the political-diplomatic field, but also the economic, commercial areas and international law; (5) ensuring US interests in the region.


*The choices of ASEAN*

The choices of the two powers will force ASEAN to make its own choice. William Choong, a Shangri-La Dialogue Senior Fellow at the the International Institute for Strategic Studies, which organises the Shangri-La Dialogue, in his presentation at the Shangri-La Dialogue 2016, mentioned the response of ASEAN states before the PCA’s decision.

He said that if the ASEAN countries cannot release a joint statement supporting the PCA’s decision, China will become a hands-free in the East Sea issue. At that time China can claim the ADIZ in retaliation for the verdict of the PCA and the US patrol for freedom of navigation in the East Sea. It's one of the scripts that ASEAN countries should take into account when tensions escalate resulting in China’s "retaliation" on the economy and diplomacy.

On the other hand, the change of strategic environment is necessary for ASEAN to promote the protection of international law in the region.

Jeremy Lagelee, from the Faculty of Law, Georgetown University* raised a number of legal ideas that ASEAN should take into account after the PCA’s decision. The case between the Philippines and China also pointed out opportunities and challenges for ASEAN countries when choosing a bilateral solution.

Lagelee mentioned successful cases at the arbitration court when the case is beyond the bilateral framework, such as the collaboration between New Zealand and Australia to sue Japan on fishing in 1999, thereby encouraging ASEAN countries to find a common voice in the East Sea issue.

He suggested the new approach in the East Sea dispute resolution, such as the ability to expand to a third party (in order to protect freedom of navigation - FONOP), or non-state actors, in order to shift territorial disputes to judicial conflict resolution mechanisms, such as the law governing conflicts between enterprises - state, or the law protecting investors. Thereby, ASEAN on one side reaffirms its stance on the East Sea issue and on the other hand it is a way for the bloc to respond to the criticisms of the loss of its importance and role in regional security issues.

At the International Conference on East Sea disputes at Yale University in May, Dr. Ta Van Tai (Harvard University) said that Vietnam was and will always give priority to the legal path. Accordingly, the rights of Vietnam on the islands and archipelagos in the East Sea are entirely based on the legal practices in line with international law.

In the exclusive economic zone (EEZ) and the continental shelf, the fishing rights, exploitation of natural resources, environmental issues and maritime traffic of Vietnam are ensured by the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea 1982 (UNCLOS) .

He also rejected the ADIZ set by China in the East Sea, because it is the right of self-defense that is only deployed on the legal territory of a country. In addition, Vietnam can be based on the oil rig crisis in 2014 to enrich the record of the case in the future, and it should seek further assistance from the International Court of Justice (ICJ), the Arbitration Court of the international Convention on the Law of the Sea, and the UN.

Vietnamnet


----------



## ahojunk

_Aha, another lighthouse on Meiji to start operation soon......_

--------
*Fifth lighthouse to shine on S. China Sea*
2016-07-11 08:29 | China Daily | _Editor: Wang Fan_

China will start operation of its fifth lighthouse in the South China Sea soon, it was announced on Sunday.

Xu Ruqing, head of China's Maritime Safety Administration, said construction of the lighthouse on Meiji Reef is almost complete.

China started to build lighthouses in the South China Sea in May last year, with four now in use on Huayang, Chigua, Zhubi and Yongshu reefs. The most recent project went into operation on Yongshu Reef on June 25.

Speaking in Ningbo, Zhejiang province, at an event to mark China Maritime Day, Xu said all five lighthouses are 50 to 55 meters tall and are equipped with the Automatic Identification System, a tool used around the world for marine communication.

The system allows vessels in surrounding waters to receive up-to-date information and send messages to the lighthouses to ask for assistance, he said.

Xu said construction of the lighthouses reflects China's dedication to its responsibility of boosting navigational safety in the South China Sea, a critical maritime and trade corridor linking the Pacific and Indian oceans.

"The five lighthouses will work like the other 2,000 or so lighthouses in China's coastal regions, providing nonstop navigational services for maritime and rescue activities," he said.

Zheng Heping, another official with the administration, added that China will improve the construction of navigational facilities in the sea to improve its capacity for maritime rescue and environmental protection.

The administration will focus on placing beacons at key points of the main international channel in the South China Sea, double-checking data on water depth and meeting the navigational demands of ships, he said.

Li Wen, a beacon expert with more than 60 years' experience, said China has had to innovate to find ways to build lighthouses in areas of the sea that are usually too shallow for such structures.

China is fulfilling its responsibilities to ensure safety in the international navigation channel by setting up the lighthouses in the South China Sea, he said, adding that the international community will benefit from the facilities.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cochine

*Nguyen Dynasty (Vietnam) exercises national maritime sovereignty*

Updated at Wednesday, 22 Jun 2016, 09:17
_The Hanoitimes_ - The Nguyen Dynasty (1802-1945) delineated Vietnam’s territory spanning from the mainland to sea and islands, and continuously exercised the country’s maritime sovereignty.
Nguyen Dynasty exercises national maritime sovereignty, Government news, politic news, vietnamnet bridge, english news, Vietnam news, news Vietnam, vietnamnet news, Vietnam net news, Vietnam latest news, vn news, Vietnam breaking news.






A document dated on July 19, 1838 under reign of King Minh Mang to ask for tax exemption for ships on missions to Hoang Sa.

Aware that the sea and islands were an important part of Vietnam, the dynasty issued and implemented a string of policies on military, national defence, foreign affairs and economy regarding sea and islands in an effort to protect and exploit this area, according to Dr. Phan Thanh Hai, Director of the Hue Relics Preservation Centre.

Such policies focused on coastal defence, naval force development, patrol activities, rescue operations and combat piracy.

A document relating to the Hoang Sa (Paracel) archipelago compiled 250 years ago was preserved in the communal house of My Loi village, Vinh My commune, Phu Loc district, in the central province of Thua Thien-Hue.

The document reveals that the Nguyen Dynasty sent forces to protect the archipelago hundreds of years ago. It was then handed over to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs as evidence proving Vietnam’s sovereignty over the archipelago.

Foreign scholars recorded that in 1816, under the reign of King Gia Long (1802-1820), there were a total of 1,482 ships in the royal naval fleet, including 490 warships, 77 great warships and 66 European-style ships. King Gia Long’s warships carried up to 22 guns.

J. White, a US national who visited the shipyards of King Gia Long in Sai Gon Port many times, praised Vietnamese shipbuilding skills and described the materials and equipment aboard the warships.

Such shipyards, located in the northeastern part of Sai Gon (now Ho Chi Minh City), could compete with the best shipyards in Europe, he said.

King Gia Long’s descendant - King Minh Mang heeded learning from the shipbuilding techniques of other countries in order to improve the transport and combat capacity of the royal naval power.

The numbers of the naval force increased from 17,000 men during the reign of King Gia Long to 28,600 during the reign of King Minh Mang. 

Thanks to the King’s due attention to exercises and maritime patrols, the naval force became strong in the region, which could meet both fighting and trading requirements at sea.

King Minh Mang also issued various policies on ship management, patrols, rescue operations and pirate combat.

In 1876, King Tu Duc formed a patrol troop divided into two groups in charge of defending the country’s sea waters and fighting pirates. 

It can be said that the Nguyen Kings were well aware that the sea and islands were significant to the existence of the dynasty, as well as to national security and the whole people.

The Hoang Sa archipelago housed a Vietnamese meteorological station which operated from 1938 to 1947 and was internationally coded 48-860.

Under the Nguyen Dynasty, the archipelago belonged to Quang Ngai district, in the central province of Quang Nam. It then became part of Thua Thien province in 1938, and Quang Nam province’s Hoa Vang district in 1961. In 1982, the Vietnamese Government decided to establish Hoang Sa district in Quang Nam-Da Nang province, presently known as Hoang Sa district in Da Nang city.

In 1956, China occupied the eastern part of Vietnam’s Hoang Sa archipelago. In January 1974, the neighbouring country took advantage of the context that the Vietnamese army and people were focusing efforts on the war against US forces to gain control over the entire archipelago.

Clearly, Vietnam’s sovereignty over the Hoang Sa and Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelagoes was continuously and fully established and exercised without disputes.

http://www.hanoitimes.com.vn/news/m...asty-exercises-national-maritime-sovereignty/

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ahojunk

*Eco-protection in South China Sea: Sansha City gets creative for eco-friendly islands*
CCTV News
Published on 10 Jul 2016
China established Sansha City four years ago to strengthen its foothold in the South China Sea. The city is getting creative to make the islands greener. CCTV’s reporter Han Bin went to one of the islands in the Xisha Islands, known as the Paracels. He looked at the marine environment and the fishermen who relied on the coral reefs to make a living.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## ahojunk

South China Sea arbitration to set "serious, wrong and bad example": Chinese ambassador
2016-07-09 14:38 | Xinhua | _Editor: Huang Mingrui_


The South China Sea arbitration unilaterally initiated by the Philippines will set a "serious, wrong, and bad example" if it is allowed to go through, Chinese Ambassador to Britain Liu Xiaoming said.

In a recent interview with Reuters, Liu said China will not participate in the arbitration and China believes it is illegal for a tribunal to handle this case.

"The Philippines' arbitration case is against UNCLOS (the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea), because sovereignty and territorial disputes are not under the jurisdiction of UNCLOS," Liu stressed.

Liu noted that China, like 30 other countries, made a declaration in 2006 that it will not take part in third party arbitration when it comes to maritime delimitation.

"UK is one of the 30 countries. UNCLOS provides that sovereign countries have their sovereign right to make these declarations on optional exceptions," he explained.

China has always called for bilateral consultation and negotiations with neighboring countries, including the Philippines, when it comes to maritime disputes, the Chinese envoy said.

There had been a series of statements between China and the Philippines on how to resolve disputes before 2013 when the Philippines submitted its arbitration case.

"In our view, the Philippines have turned their back on their promise and that is against international practice. Once agreed, you have to follow your commitment," he said in the interview.

According to UNCLOS, Liu said, arbitration is only a supplementary means to resolve disputes, and bilateral channels are regarded as the main means to resolve a dispute between countries.

"The Philippines had never come to China to talk about this arbitration. And China and the Philippines had never had serious negotiations on this subject back then," he elaborated.

UNCLOS provides that a compulsory arbitration will not be resorted to settle a dispute between countries unless all bilateral channels are exhausted.

If this arbitration goes through, it "is against the spirit of UNCLOS," and will "set a serious, wrong and bad example," said Liu, adding that British and Dutch experts on the Law of the Sea shared the same concern with Chinese legal experts.

"Some people try to label China as not respecting international law if we reject this arbitration. But that is totally wrong. What China is doing is exactly safeguarding the authority and seriousness of international law, safeguarding the letter and spirit of UNCLOS," he told Reuters.

No matter what decision this tribunal is going to make, "it has no impact on China and China's sovereignty over these islands and reefs will not be bound by it," Liu argued.

"We will not fight in the court, but we will certainly fight for our sovereignty," he stressed.

Citing China's record in resolving territorial disputes with its neighbors, Liu reiterated that the door remains open for the Philippines to return to bilateral negotiations with China.

"The Philippines, they can put forward their proposals. And we can have our proposals and we'll meet half way. Any negotiation is a process of compromise."

"Now they have elected a new government. We do hope that they will change their course, return to the negotiation table," said the diplomat.

In the interview, Liu also slammed the U.S. "rebalancing in the Asia Pacific," voicing suspicion over American motives.

"I think the American move in the Asia Pacific emboldened those countries to change the traditional channel of negotiation with China," making them believe in "a better deal with China" via U.S. help, he said.

Describing U.S. "freedom of navigation" claims as a false argument, the ambassador said the situation in the South China Sea is calm and peaceful with no reason for military involvement from an outside power at all.

"What they are doing is not for safeguarding free navigation," Liu said. "They are there to challenge China's sovereignty over the islands and reefs. And they make a dangerous provocation. China has a legitimate right to check what they are doing."

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## ahojunk

*South China Sea Issue ABC: Treaties proving China's sovereignty over South China Sea Islands*
*Updated: 2016-07-11 14:43*
*(chinadaily.com.cn)*






After the Philippines filed a case in The Hague-based Permanent Court of Arbitration against China in the South China Sea dispute, Beijing has made it clear that it would neither participate in nor accept the ruling of the arbitral tribunal.

The dispute over the South China Sea was a small but very important segment of the quest for global dominance, said Ante Simonic, former Croatian ambassador to China.

"There is a new world order in the making and the center of tectonic movements are Asia and Pacific region. With all the regional disagreements and differences, there are opposed interests of the United States, the only superpower in the world and the global policeman, on the one side, the regional power China, on the other," he said.

"This dangerously tense and complex situation threatened not only safety of an extremely important maritime corridor but the peace and prosperity in the region, even the whole world," he said, "Therefore, all sides have to act in a wise, responsible and patient manner and gradually find a fair and long-term sustainable solution."

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

kecho said:


> *Nguyen Dynasty (Vietnam) exercises national maritime sovereignty*
> http://www.hanoitimes.com.vn/news/m...asty-exercises-national-maritime-sovereignty/



 *Annam was merely a quasi-state witin the Chinese Empire.
*
*Observe the entire document was all written in Chinese. *

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cochine

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> *Annam was merely a quasi-state witin the Chinese Empire.
> *
> *Observe the entire document was all written in Chinese. *



Vietnam has kicked Chinese invaders from our land long time ago.

and here is the decision of PCA over the dispute. *Nine dashed claim of China is illegal.*






.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cochine

* Arbitral Tribunal rules on Philippine case against China *

July 12, 2016 UPDATE PHILIPPINES World 0


The Arbitral Tribunal at the Permanent Court of Arbitration in the Peace Palace, The Hague, Netherlands has released its ruling on case filed by Philippines against China’s massive claims in South China Sea including West Philippine Sea which is the Philippines’ Exclusive Economic Zone.

The five-member Arbitral Tribunal, which handled Philippine case, is chaired by Judge Thomas A. Mensah of Ghana. Members are Judge Jean-Pierre Cot of France, Judge Stanislaw Pawlak of Poland, Professor Alfred Soons of the Netherlands, and Judge Rüdiger Wolfrum of Germany.

*“The Tribunal concluded that there was no legal basis for China to claim historic rights to resources within the sea areas falling within the ‘nine-dash line’,” said in the Tribunal decision’s press release.*

It added that certain sea areas in Spratly Islands are within the exclusive economic zone of the Philippines.

“Accordingly, the Tribunal concluded that none of the Spratly Islands is capable of generating extended maritime zones. The Tribunal also held that the Spratly Islands cannot generate maritime zones collectively as a unit. Having found that none of the features claimed by China was capable of generating an exclusive economic zone, the Tribunal found that it could—without delimiting a boundary—declare that certain sea areas are within the exclusive economic zone of the Philippines, because those areas are not overlapped by any possible entitlement of China,” added in the press release.

Artbitral Tribunal: China violated Philippines’ sovereign rights


----------



## bobsm

*Taiwan rejects ruling on South China Sea island of Itu Aba*
Reuters
Posted at Jul 12 2016 07:37 PM

Taiwan said Tuesday it does not accept a tribunal's ruling on the South China Sea, saying the decision on Itu Aba, Taipei's sole holding in the disputed Spratly Islands, had "seriously impaired" its territorial rights.

The arbitration court in The Hague ruled that China has no historic title over the waters of the South China Sea and that it has breached the sovereign rights of the Philippines with its actions there, infuriating a defiant Beijing.

Taiwan, formally known as the "Republic of China", is also a claimant in the South China Sea. The maps China bases its South China Sea claims on date to when Chiang Kai-shek's Nationalists ruled China before they fled to Taiwan in 1949 after losing a civil war to Mao Zedong's Communists.

Manila had challenged the legality of China's claims to virtually the entire South China Sea, in part by arguing that no reefs, atolls or islets in the Spratly archipelago can legally be considered an island, and therefore hold no rights to a 200 nautical mile (370 km) exclusive economic zone.

Itu Aba is the biggest feature in the Spratlys and the one some analysts believed had the strongest claim to island status and an economic zone. The Spratlys are also claimed by China, Vietnam and Malaysia while Brunei claims nearby waters.

(Reporting by J.R. Wu and Faith Hung; Editing by Nick Macfie)


http://uk.reuters.com/article/southchinasea-ruling-taiwan-idUKL4N19Y2TU

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## Devil Soul

*China reacts furiously after Arbitration Court rules against Beijing in South China Sea dispute*

Foreign
2 HOURS AGO BY AGENCIES
An international tribunal ruled on Tuesday against China’s claims it had “historical rights” in the South China Sea in a bitter dispute that risks further stoking regional tensions.

Manila ─ which had lodged the suit against Beijing ─ welcomed the decision by the Permanent Court of Arbitration (PCA) but Beijing reacted furiously, saying it “neither accepts nor recognises” the ruling.

Beijing claims most of the South China Sea, even waters approaching neighbouring countries, as its sovereign territory, basing its arguments on Chinese maps dating back to the 1940s marked with a so-called nine-dash line.

“The tribunal concluded that there was no legal basis for China to claim historic rights within the sea areas falling within the ‘nine-dash line’,” the Hague-based PCA said in its hard-hitting ruling.

It said Beijing had no historic rights to resources in South China Sea waters and that such rights were “extinguished” as being incompatible with exclusive economic zones provided for in the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNClos), to which both countries are signatories.

“China had violated the Philippines’ sovereign rights in the exclusive economic zone by interfering with Philippine fishing and petroleum exploration, by constructing artificial islands and failing to prevent Chinese fishermen from fishing in the zone,” the PCA added.

The tribunal further ruled that the disputed Spratly islands “cannot generate maritime zones collectively as a unit” as claimed by China.

Tuesday’s judgement comes against the backdrop of frequent military brushes between China and its Asian neighbours the Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan, which ring the waters believed to hold untapped oil and gas reserves.

The tensions have also alarmed the US which has key defence treaties with many regional allies, and in a show of strength last week sent warships to patrol close to some of the reefs and islands claimed by China.

All eyes were watching for any possible reaction on the ground or in the water from the Asian political and military powerhouse after the foreign ministry swiftly denounced the decision.

“The award is null and void and has no binding force,” the Chinese foreign ministry said in a statement after the ruling.



Beijing has repeatedly denied the tribunal’s authority to rule on the dispute over the strategically vital region, and it refused the opportunity to defend its position in The Hague.

To bolster its position it has rapidly turned reefs into artificial islands capable of hosting military planes.

Beijing has held naval drills between the Paracels and the southern Chinese island of Hainan in recent days.

Richard Heydarian, a political analyst at De La Salle University in Manila, said the judgement was a “clean sweep” for the Philippines, with the court deciding that China had “violated prevailing international law on multiple levels”.

“China has been branded as an outlaw in unequivocal terms. US, Japan and other major powers should now focus on enforcing this binding verdict if China fails to comply,” he said.

The Philippines, which had lodged the suit in 2013, welcomed the “milestone decision”.

Foreign Secretary Perfecto Yasay said experts were studying the decision. “In the meantime, we call on all those concerned to exercise restraint and sobriety.”

The Philippine embassy in China has warned its citizens to beware of personal “threats” and avoid political debates.

Nationalist demonstrations are not rare in China, sometimes apparently with the tacit backing of authorities.

More than 20 Chinese police were positioned outside the embassy, with more in vans nearby ─ a significantly larger presence than usual ─ along with two lorries loaded with crowd control barriers, a possible indication that authorities expected protests.

Ahead of the decision, new Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte had signalled he did not want to antagonise China, saying he would not “taunt or flaunt” a favourable ruling and would seek a “soft landing” with China.

But Chinese President Xi Jinping said earlier this month that Beijing would never compromise on sovereignty, adding: “We are not afraid of trouble.”

China had sought diplomatic support around the world, and foreign ministry spokesman Lu Kang said its latest backers in the case included Angola, Madagascar and Papua New Guinea.

One of the key issues was whether the land features in the area are islands capable of supporting human habitation ─ which under UNCLOS are entitled to territorial waters and an exclusive economic zone ─ or rocks, which only have territorial waters, or low-tide elevations, which get neither.

“The ruling can reduce the scope of the South China Sea disputes, but will not solve them,” said analysts Yanmei Xie and Tim Johnston of the International Crisis Group in a report ahead of the decision.

The ruling was likely to “escalate the war of words”, they said, but added: “Escalation to military standoffs is not inevitable.”

http://www.pakistantoday.com.pk/201...s-against-beijing-in-south-china-sea-dispute/

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## cnleio



Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## cochine

cnleio said:


> View attachment 317104





PCA arbitration result: China's nine dashed line is ruleless.


----------



## bobsm

*Taipei to hasten frigate patrol for Taiping Island in wake of South China Sea ruling
Ruling, especially regarding Taiwan-occupied island, will never be accepted, says presidential office*
PUBLISHED : Tuesday, 12 July, 2016, 11:57pm
UPDATED : Wednesday, 13 July, 2016, 12:17am






*
Taipei will bring forward plans to send a frigate to patrol waters near the biggest land feature in the Spratlys after a Hague tribunal ruled on Tuesday that Taipei-controlled Taiping Island was a “rock” that conferred no exclusive maritime rights.*

Taiwanese Foreign Minister David Lee said President Tsai Ing-wen was expected to take “action” on Wednesday after top-level national security meeting on Tuesday on the Permanent Court of Arbitration’s ruling. Lee refused to specify the action but local news media said Tsai was likely to board a La Fayette-class frigate to boost the crew’s morale before the vessel set off for Taiping.

An emergency response centre has also been set up at the defence ministry.

*"The ruling ... has seriously hurt our rights over the islands in the South China Sea, and we can never accept it", the Presidential Office said.*

Although the ruling was a result of a dispute between Beijing and Manila over claims to disputed land formations and waters, Taipei found the tribunal’s reference of Taiping unacceptable, saying Taiwan has long considered the 46 hectare feature an island.

“The ruling, especially the part involving Taiping Island, has seriously hurt our rights over the islands in the South China Sea, and we can never accept it,” the Presidential Office said.

*It added that the ruling was not legally binding, and it would do all it could to uphold Taiwan’s sovereignty claims to “various islets” and their surrounding territorial waters.*

“The Republic of China [in Taiwan] enjoys every right in line with the international law and the United Nations’ Convention on the Law of the Sea regarding the islands in the South China Sea.”

The ROC regime took control of Taiping after Japan’s surrender in the second world war and stationed military personnel there even after the regime retreated to Taiwan. The mainland inherited the ROC’s claim to the South China Sea, including the U-shape “nine-dash” line first promoted by the ROC regime in 1947. Tuesday’s ruling also said the line contravened Unclos.

In Beijing, the State Council’s Taiwan Affairs Office said both the mainland and Taiwan should safeguard territorial sovereignty and maritime rights in the South China Sea.

Xinhua quoted TAO spokesman Ma Xiaoguang as saying the two sides shared responsibility for the overall and fundamental interests of the Chinese nation.

Relations between the mainland and Taiwan have been strained since the Tsai took office in May and official communication has stalled.

Taiwan has physically controlled Taiping, making it a must for the Tsai government to stand firm on Taipei’s claims EDWARD CHEN I-HSIN, TAMKANG UNIVERSITY

Analysts said the Tsai government had adopted a strategy of maintaining outright claims to Taiping, but keeping an ambiguous position towards the nine-dash line.

“This is because Taiwan has physically controlled Taiping, making it a must for the Tsai government to stand firm on Taipei’s claims,” said Edward Chen I-hsin, professor of international studies at Tamkang University in Taiwan.


http://www.scmp.com/news/china/poli...8/taipei-hasten-frigate-patrol-taiping-island

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## cochine

*Vietnam welcomes tribunal’s ruling issuance: spokesman*

VNA TUESDAY, JULY 12, 2016 - 18:59:52  PRINT



Foreign Ministry Spokesman Le Hai Binh (Photo: VNA)

*Hanoi (VNA)* – “Vietnam welcomes the arbitration tribunal’s issuance of the final ruling on July 12 and will issue a statement on the ruling’s content,” Foreign Ministry Spokesman Le Hai Binh said on July 12. 

He fielded reporters’ question about Vietnam’s response to the arbitration tribunal’s issuance of the final ruling on the Philippines’s lawsuit against China’s claims in the East Sea. The tribunal was set up pursuant to Annex VII of the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea at the request of the Philippines.

“Vietnam once again reiterates its consistent stance on this lawsuit as it was fully shown in the Vietnamese Foreign Ministry’s Declaration on December 5, 2014, sent to the arbitration tribunal,” he noted. 

“In that spirit, Vietnam strongly supports settling disputes in the East Sea through peaceful measures, including diplomatic and legal processes without the use or threat to use force, as in line with regulations of international law, including the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, maintaining peace and stability in the region, security, safety and freedom of navigation in and overflight over the East Sea, and respecting the law-abiding principle in seas and oceans,” Binh said. 

“On this occasion, Vietnam once again affirms its sovereignty over Hoang Sa (Paracel) and Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelagoes, the sovereignty over internal waters and territorial waters, the sovereign right and jurisdiction over Vietnam’s exclusive economic zone and continental shelf as defined in line with the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea. 

Vietnam upholds all of its legitimate rights and interests regarding the geographical structures belonging to Hoang Sa and Truong Sa archipelagoes,” stated the spokesperson.-VNA


----------



## TaiShang

ahojunk said:


> *Eco-protection in South China Sea: Sansha City gets creative for eco-friendly islands*
> CCTV News
> Published on 10 Jul 2016
> China established Sansha City four years ago to strengthen its foothold in the South China Sea. The city is getting creative to make the islands greener. CCTV’s reporter Han Bin went to one of the islands in the Xisha Islands, known as the Paracels. He looked at the marine environment and the fishermen who relied on the coral reefs to make a living.



Impressive display of regional public goods and development social responsibility.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## cochine

*Japan: Parties are required to comply with Arbitral Tribunal’s award*

July 13, 2016 Gracel Ortega World 0



“Japan has consistently advocated the importance of the rule of law and the use of peaceful means, not the use of force or coercion, in seeking settlement of maritime disputes,” Japanese Foreign Minister Fumio Kishida said after the Arbitral Tribunal instituted under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) rendered it award regarding the West Philippine Sea dispute.

He added that as the Tribunal’s award is final and legally binding on the parties to the dispute under the provisions of UNCLOS, the parties to this case are required to comply with the award.

“Japan strongly expects that the parties’ compliance with this award will eventually lead to the peaceful settlement of disputes in the South China Sea,” the Japanese Minister added.

http://www.update.ph/2016/07/japan-parties-are-required-to-comply-with-arbitral-tribunals-award/7479


----------



## Han Patriot

I think you guys are taking all these international courts too seriously. Trust me the real deal is the gangstar nego behind the scenes between US and China. After this, China will re-assert their claim, build more bases, America will keep on flying and sailing to enforce the freedom of navigation, China will protest and then nothing will change.

China will show that she is angry, frustrated and humiliated by foreign powers, it's just for the domestic audience, the population will support the government even more. You still don't get it?

In the end, China would have completed the bases and it will just remain as status quo. It's just theatrical, in the end it's all a game between powers.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## cochine

*Making political hay after the arbitration ruling on South China Sea*
Evelyn Goh For The Straits Times
Published
Jul 12, 2016, 5:00 am SGT
Facebook Twitter Email
*South-east Asian states should understand the region's strategic realities. They should focus on building relations, and respond with resolve and restraint, after the Permanent Court of Arbitration ruling on the South China Sea.*
Today, the Permanent Court of Arbitration (PCA) will issue its ruling on the Philippines' case against China's territorial claims in the South China Sea. Many worry about China's possible response to what is widely expected to be a ruling against its favour, and the implications for the region's already-choppy strategic waters.

This international legal confrontation comes amid the region's descent into a maritime insecurity spiral since the April-June 2012 stand-off at Scarborough Shoal between Chinese maritime security forces and the Philippine Navy. That incident ended with Chinese control of the disputed feature and Manila initiating legal arbitration proceedings in The Hague.

The following year, tensions escalated between China and Japan over the Senkaku Islands, and China declared an air defence identification zone over parts of the East China Sea in November 2013, triggering fears of a similar move in the South China Sea. In mid-2014, the state-owned China Offshore Oil Corporation placed a giant oil rig close to the Paracel Islands disputed by Vietnam.


In January last year, the US-based Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative publicised satellite images of China's island construction in the area, fuelling Washington's concerns about the unprecedented speed, scale and strategic implications of Chinese land reclamation - fears intensified by reports that China stationed anti-ship missiles on the disputed Woody Island in March this year.

Since mid-2015, the US military has conducted overflights and three publicised freedom-of- navigation operations in the South China Sea, to challenge China's maritime territorial claims.


Meanwhile, Indonesia and Malaysia have responded more strongly to incursions by Chinese fishermen and security agencies in their maritime territories, and Asean has again demonstrated apparent disarray on the South China Sea issue in recent months.






Today's legal ruling, regardless of the result, will be difficult to enforce. To forestall an even more intense security dilemma in the South China Sea, regional policymakers should not lose sight of four vital underlying strategic trends.

*STRATEGIC TRENDS*

First, the power asymmetry and economic interdependence between China and South-east Asia will continue to grow. While this does not mean that China's smaller neighbours should give up their territorial and resource claims, out of national interest they do necessarily have to sustain relationships with China that are wider than just the South China Sea disputes alone.

Second, the United States is no longer the only great power operating in maritime South-east Asia. As China's military capability and economic interests expand, it wants to secure access to the region's sea lanes, territories and economic zones. This obliges both Washington and Beijing to find mutually acceptable rules for maritime usage, if only because neither wants to go to war over rocks and islands per se.

Third, China is most likely to continue on its path of national development within the existing international order, rather than by forging a new order - because it has benefited enormously from it, and its key economic partners sit within it. Ultimately, because China's successful domestic economic transformation could be undermined by regional instability, we may expect the Chinese leadership to temper the excesses of its territorial claims.

For a rising power like China, the downside of accepting the existing order is having to give less powerful states more regard than their capabilities alone deserve, such as by respecting unfavourable international legal rulings. Yet, the upsides are significant, because many existing international rules also favour the more powerful - for example, as China develops more long-range naval capabilities, its leaders and military too will appreciate the right to "innocent passage" in others' territorial waters and to military activities in their exclusive economic zones, which they currently oppose for the US.

Fourth, the most dangerous element of the South China Sea disputes is not island-building, territorial claims or freedom of navigation, but rather intense competition over rapidly declining fishery resources in the South China Sea. Armed disputes over fishing grounds have long been fairly common in the area, but these are now exacerbated by large-scale commercial fishing.

Moreover, growing involvement of coast guards and other national maritime security agencies threatens to turn such fishing disputes into bigger regional conflicts. Thus, new modes of trans-boundary fisheries resource management are arguably more urgently needed than an elusive agreement on territorial claims.

*A THREE-PART RESPONSE*

Where does this leave South-east Asia the morning after the PCA ruling? If it delivers, as many anticipate, an authoritative judgment against the legal basis of China's claim on territorial waters within its "nine-dash line", the Philippines (and other claimants) will secure important moral high ground in the disputes.





Related Story
*The 2009 claims that changed the dynamics in the South China Sea*
Yet, the judgment by itself will also not wipe clean the South China Sea slate; the region will still face the same knotty problem of seemingly irreconcilable territorial and resource claims.

Therefore, all parties should seize the opportunity offered by this legal juncture to regroup and refocus on the wider strategic picture.

The Asia-Pacific region will have to live with the South China Sea disputes for a long time to come. Effective management of these disputes will entail three essential elements:

*•Relationship*
As South-east Asians well know, China is not going to go away. But this region is adept at creating complex and delicate relationships with powerful states so as to be able to survive and prosper in their shadow. Focusing on the relationship means acknowledging and upholding the PCA ruling, while resisting the temptation to beat China over the head with it. This entails leaving it some room for manoeuvre so that Beijing is able to find a way to step out of the spotlight. More urgently, South-east Asia needs to work with the US and other partners - Japan, India, Australia - to convince Chinese leaders about the value of stabilising China's relationship with the region, which is also more comprehensive than just the South China Sea disputes alone.

*•Resolve *
Because of the intractable nature of the rival territorial claims, all parties have to live with higher levels of tension in the South China Sea going forward. Credible and intelligent resolve will be required to prevent localised disputes from spilling over into large-scale armed conflict and to deter aggression by rival claimants. In this regard, there is widespread support from South-east Asian states for the US military presence in the South China Sea, and for continued assistance by the US and its allies like Japan to boost maritime surveillance and defensive capabilities of claimants such as the Philippines and Vietnam. Regardless of differing views about the right to "innocent passage" by military craft within other states' territorial waters , the US will act to uphold that principle. But intelligent resolve requires that freedom-of- navigation operations are not deliberately politicised and publicised in order to castigate China. If the PCA rules against China's claims to territorial waters associated with its artificial islands, the legal point would be won, and in principle the question of freedom of military navigation becomes moot. In that context, politicising such routine operations in international waters would paradoxically legitimise China's sovereignty claims, by suggesting that China's sovereignty claims have merit. Moreover, everyone should expect to extend to Chinese forces the same right to innocent passage in regional and international waters. Note also that deterrence policies will elevate tension, because shows of force tend to generate similar responses. For instance, the military elements of the Obama administration's rebalance to maritime East Asia were met by China's militarisation of the South China Sea disputes, and both sides have upgraded maritime military exercises in the region to rival displays of strength. Ultimately, coercing China into halting its island building or resource exploitation will require actions like blockading Chinese forces or destroying Chinese construction - offensive actions that are likely to trigger war. For the South-east Asians whose lives, lands and seas will be the actual theatre for such a conflict, a more attractive bet will be trying to bring about voluntary limits to these claims.

*•Restraint *
The PCA ruling should not detract from the longstanding conundrum of how to agree on a code of conduct for the South China Sea. Indeed, developments since 2012 make it clear that we need an even more comprehensive code. In order to prevent accidental conflict escalations, some form of agreement such as the Code for Unplanned Encounters at Sea (Cues) is needed. As the Singapore Government has suggested, for the South China Sea, Cues will have to cover not only naval incidents but also encounters between coast guards. To cultivate restraint by claimant states in pursuing their rival territorial claims, the Asean-China South China Sea Code of Conduct (CoC) remains the most promising avenue. But a negotiated moratorium of activities under the CoC will now have to cover an expanded list of activities, including blockading features occupied by others and island construction. Given the trend of building islands that may be significant enough to generate claims to territorial waters, the CoC will also have to grapple with defining such features and delineating disputed and undisputed areas. Furthermore, the urgent problem of managing conflicting resource claims, especially fishing grounds, will need to be tackled either within the CoC process or independently of it. Regulating restraint in the South China Sea is a very tall order, which requires South-east Asian leadership. The most important response South-east Asian states must have to today's ruling is to make constructive political hay from their moral high ground. One assured way to do this would be for Asean to push forward with agreeing among itself the outline for a CoC consistent with international law that all its member states can first commit to upholding. Having demonstrated unity in restraint, regional states can then hope to persuade China and other players to sign up.

*•The writer is the Shedden Professor of Strategic Policy Studies at the Australian National University.*


----------



## Tiqiu



Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## SEAISI

Tiqiu said:


>


That's a big middle finger to the viets

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## cochine

SEAISI said:


> That's a big middle finger to the viets



PCA ruling, china doesnt has both historic evidences for claiming and also nine dash claiming is ruleless.

Its disclosed that Chinese are aggressive invaders in to sea territory òf Viets.


----------



## Tiqiu

SEAISI said:


> That's a big middle finger to the viets



Here is another one from their dear Uncle

World | Thu Jul 14, 2016 5:57am EDT
Related: World,  Indonesia
*U.S. launches quiet diplomacy to ease South China Sea tensions*





A ship (top) of the Chinese Coast Guard is seen near a ship of the Vietnam Marine Guard in the South China Sea, about 210 km (130 miles) off shore of Vietnam May 14, 2014.


The United States is using quiet diplomacy to persuade the Philippines, Indonesia, Vietnam and other Asian nations not to move aggressively to capitalize on an international court ruling that denied China's claims to the South China Sea, several U.S. administration officials said on Wednesday.

"What we want is to quiet things down so these issues can be addressed rationally instead of emotionally," said one official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe private diplomatic messages.

Some were sent through U.S. embassies abroad and foreign missions in Washington, while others were conveyed directly to top officials by Defense Secretary Ash Carter, Secretary of State John Kerry and other senior officials, the sources said.

"This is a blanket call for quiet, not some attempt to rally the region against China, which would play into a false narrative that the U.S. is leading a coalition to contain China," the official added.

The effort to calm the waters following the court ruling in The Hague on Tuesday suffered a setback when Taiwan dispatched a warship to the area, with President Tsai Ing-wen telling sailors that their mission was to defend Taiwan's maritime territory.

The court ruled that while China has no historic rights to the area within its self-declared nine-dash line, Taiwan has no right to Itu Aba, also called Taiping, the largest island in the Spratlys. Taipei administers Itu Aba but the tribunal called it a "rock", according to the legal definition.

The U.S. officials said they hoped the U.S. diplomatic initiative would be more successful in Indonesia, which wants to send hundreds of fishermen to the Natuna Islands to assert its sovereignty over nearby areas of the South China Sea to which China says it also has claims, and in the Philippines, whose fishermen have been harassed by Chinese coast guard and naval vessels.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## kuge

Tiqiu said:


> Here is another one from their dear Uncle
> 
> World | Thu Jul 14, 2016 5:57am EDT
> Related: World,  Indonesia
> *U.S. launches quiet diplomacy to ease South China Sea tensions*
> 
> View attachment 317755
> 
> A ship (top) of the Chinese Coast Guard is seen near a ship of the Vietnam Marine Guard in the South China Sea, about 210 km (130 miles) off shore of Vietnam May 14, 2014.
> 
> 
> The United States is using quiet diplomacy to persuade the Philippines, Indonesia, Vietnam and other Asian nations not to move aggressively to capitalize on an international court ruling that denied China's claims to the South China Sea, several U.S. administration officials said on Wednesday.
> 
> "What we want is to quiet things down so these issues can be addressed rationally instead of emotionally," said one official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe private diplomatic messages.
> 
> Some were sent through U.S. embassies abroad and foreign missions in Washington, while others were conveyed directly to top officials by Defense Secretary Ash Carter, Secretary of State John Kerry and other senior officials, the sources said.
> 
> "This is a blanket call for quiet, not some attempt to rally the region against China, which would play into a false narrative that the U.S. is leading a coalition to contain China," the official added.
> 
> The effort to calm the waters following the court ruling in The Hague on Tuesday suffered a setback when Taiwan dispatched a warship to the area, with President Tsai Ing-wen telling sailors that their mission was to defend Taiwan's maritime territory.
> 
> The court ruled that while China has no historic rights to the area within its self-declared nine-dash line, Taiwan has no right to Itu Aba, also called Taiping, the largest island in the Spratlys. Taipei administers Itu Aba but the tribunal called it a "rock", according to the legal definition.
> 
> The U.S. officials said they hoped the U.S. diplomatic initiative would be more successful in Indonesia, which wants to send hundreds of fishermen to the Natuna Islands to assert its sovereignty over nearby areas of the South China Sea to which China says it also has claims, and in the Philippines, whose fishermen have been harassed by Chinese coast guard and naval vessels.


so is that US acknowledging she is the stirring trouble-maker?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Taimur Khurram

I don't know much about the South China sea dispute, other than who is at odds with each other. Could some members from each respective side please offer me their view on things and explain what it's about? Thanks.


----------



## Taimoor Khan

It reminds me of old cat and mouse story. Plenty of rats running around south China sea, clueless as to who will bell the cat.


----------



## cochine

*How does the East Sea ruling affect Vietnam?
*
_VietNamNet Bridge - Major General Le Van Cuong, former director of the Institute of Strategy Studies, the Ministry of Public Security, told Dan Tri online newspaper that the ruling of the Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague, the Netherlands on the Philippines’ lawsuit against China’s nine-dash line claims in the East Sea (internationally known as the South China Sea) is a break-through for Vietnam’s struggle to defend its legitimate rights and interests and sovereignty in the East Sea._


_



_

_Major General Le Van Cuong, former director of the Institute of Strategy Studies, the Ministry of Public Security._


*Q: The Permanent Court of Arbitration (PCA) on July 12 ruled that there is no legal foundation for China’s U-shaped line claims in the East Sea. What do you think of the ruling?*

*Le Van Cuong:* I think this is a very honest judgment, in accordance with objective and historical reality. I fully believe in international justice and the verdict of the Tribunal. China does not have any legal basis for the 9-dotted line claims.

The Tribunal's ruling again rejected the absurd claims of China with the so-called "sovereignty in the East Sea." This also means that Beijing's claims over Vietnam’s Truong Sa (Spratly) and Hoang Sa (Paracel) Islands is entirely illegal, regardless of international law.

Before the PCA made the ruling, China had made a series of aggressive actions in the East Sea, such as invading Vietnam’s Hoang Sa on January 19th 1974 and Vietnam’s seven reefs on March 14 1988. China's actions violated point 3, item 4 of Article 2 of the Charter of the United Nations, Resolution 2625 of the UN General Assembly and generally international law.

Therefore, the PCA’s ruling on July 12 is extremely important. It reflects the voice of conscience, of progressive human kind and indirectly urges the international community to be alert and take tough measures against China's actions to deliberately cause tension in the East Sea.

*Q: The East Sea case between the Philippines and China is considered the case of the century because this was the first time a country used legal measures to resolve conflicts in the East Sea. What is the meaning of the ruling in the present context and whether it can change the face of the East Sea?*

*Le Van Cuong:* First of all, I have to say that the Tribunal's ruling is not mandatory for China. But I think that this judgment is meaningful on the point that it is on behalf of the United Nations, on behalf of the international community and progressive mankind to make a conclusion that is fully consistent with objective reality.

This demonstrates that the PCA worked very seriously, fairly and impartially. The ruling also demonstrates that international law has been respected, international law is paramount, not national strength.

Secondly, after this decision, the international community will surely have a different view on China.

Legally, China has trampled upon international law. China is a permanent member of the UN Security Council but it does not comply with the UN Charter.

In the political and moral aspects, for many times Chinese leaders claimed to respect the sovereignty of its neighbors; committed to join other countries to maintain peace, stability and development.

On September 25th 2015 at the White House’s Rose Garden, in a meeting with US President Barack Obama, Chinese President Xi Jinping also declared to the world that China did not militarize the East Sea.

But on February 12th 2016, China installed 8 surface-to-air missile launchers in Phu Lam (Woody) Island and 4 high frequency radar systems for military purposes. Then they continued to build up, sent war planes to its runways on Chu Thap (Fiery Cross Reef) and Gac Ma (Johnson South Reef).

In all aspects, nobody can believe in China because they frequently "say one thing and do another." I think this ruling once again proves that justice must belong to reason, not to the power.

*Q: What do you think about China’s response after the ruling?*


*



*

_An artificial island of China in the East Sea. Photo CSIS _



*Le Van Cuong: *First of all, I have to say that Chinese leaders are visionary. They had certainly prepared scenarios for the worst. They may react in two ways.

Firstly, China will launch a great media campaign to continue to lie to the world about the so-called "China’s sovereignty in the East Sea," while enticing the support of others. China will often make claims that they have a legal basis for the Spratly and Paracel islands and the PCA’s ruling is invaluable and unrelated to them.

Secondly, Beijing may take actions on the field. They may continue militarization in the East Sea in a faster, more aggressive way. China has built runways for war planes and in the coming time they may send long-ranger bomber-aircraft to the runway on the Fiery Cross Reef or war planes J10, J11, 30 ... to Johnson South Reef or install HQ 9 rocket launcher rigs in the Spratly and Paracel Islands

It is also possible that they will build many works on Scarborough and turn it into a military base. Of course this is not easy.

Another scenario is that China will set up the air defense identification zone (ADIZ) in the East Sea under 3 levels.

At the lowest level, they will set up the ADIZ over the Paracel Islands. There China has prepared technical and material infrastructure such as airports, war planes, HQ9 surface-to-air missile, and high frequency radar systems. If this happens, China’s ADIZ will overlap the airspace of Vietnam and the Philippines, the flight information regions of Hanoi, HCM City and Hong Kong.

At a more serious level, China will set an ADIZ in the Spratly Islands and this will affect international aviation security because this ADIZ will overlap the flight information zones of a series of Ho Chi Minh City, Singapore, Malaysia, ....

The final step is that China can set up the ADIZ on the area inside the 9-dotted line. This is the most serious and dangerous level. If it happens, the entire East Sea will become a hot spot.

I think China will make moves while watching the response of the United States and the international community. However, today China is unable to do anything it wants. If they make excessive aggression, they will be boycotted by the international community.

*Q: What is the ruling’s impacts on Vietnam, in your opinion?*

*Le Van Cuong: *The Philippines formally brought the case to the PCA in January 2013. It is not easy for the Philippines to pursue this case. They had to prepare 4,000 pages of documents. They had an extremely good team of lawyers. So, if there's a similar scenario happening for Vietnam, we can learn from them about the preparation of legal documents.

The ruling on July 12 is also beneficial to Vietnam in the struggle to defend its legitimate rights and interests, and sovereignty in the East Sea. Thus, Vietnam will have more legal power.

http://english.vietnamnet.vn/fms/ma...does-the-east-sea-ruling-affect-vietnam-.html


----------



## Taimur Khurram

Amphibious Assault said:


> After WW2, China claimed all the islands of the South China Sea and occupied the main island. These were our prize of war for our victory over Japanese imperialism. In the 1970's, Vietnam and Philippines invaded our islands. We defeated Vietnam in naval battles but Pinoy was too far away. Since 2012, they tried to expand their invasion with the help of USA pivot to Asia. As a consequence, China built up our navy to defeat the USA in South China Sea. Meanwhile, we spank the Viets and Pinoys mercilessly.



Thank you.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## yusheng

海军首艘大型远洋拖轮
The PLAN first large ocean-going tug is ready to SCS, 
guess which one will be the first client of this huge beast





















the other ones:

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Beidou2020

yusheng said:


> 海军首艘大型远洋拖轮
> The PLAN first large ocean-going tug is ready to SCS,
> guess which one will be the first client of this huge beast
> View attachment 318225
> View attachment 318226
> View attachment 318227
> View attachment 318228
> View attachment 318229
> View attachment 318230
> 
> 
> the other ones:
> View attachment 318224



What's the full displacement of the tug?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## bobsm

*UN Court Reaffirms Unrelated to South China Sea Arbitral Tribunal*
By Ren Yan (People's Daily) 00:41, July 16, 2016

*The United Nations (UN) and the International Court of Justice (ICJ) recently issued statements reiterating that they have no connection to the temporary arbitral tribunal established under UNCLOS for the South China Sea case brought unilaterally by the Philippines.*

The spokesperson of UN Secretary-General also stated that “the UN doesn't have a position on the legal and procedural merits of the case or on the disputed claims” at a daily briefing on Tuesday.

On Wednesday, the UN’s official account on Sina Weibo, China’s answer to Twitter, posted that the tribunal has nothing to do with the UN.

“The ICJ, located at the Peace Palace, is the principal judicial organ of the UN, which was established in accordance with the UN Charter,” reads the post.

The Peace Place is built to house the Permanent Court of International Justice, the predecessor of the ICJ, by the Carnegie Foundation. The UN donates to the foundation annually for using the building, the post explained.

“Another tenant of the Peace Palace is the Permanent Court of Arbitration (PCA) established in 1899, but it has no correlation with the UN,” the post further pointed out.

*Former ICJ Judge Abdul Koroma confirmed the UN’s post to People’s Daily. He said that the temporary tribunal is not an UN institution and the PCA is not a court in a real sense.*

“Many people who are not familiar with the situation would confuse the tribunal with the ICJ who shares the same office building,” Koroma noted.

The PCA is merely an international mediation agency that allows arbitration for non-state entities and individuals. According to Koroma, only 16 arbitration requests have been accepted in its 117-year-long history.

*The ICJ also released a statement on its official website on Thursday, stating that “the Award in the South China Sea Arbitration was issued by an Arbitral Tribunal acting with the secretarial assistance of the PCA. The ICJ, which is a totally distinct institution, has had no involvement in the above mentioned case.”*

According to insiders of the ICJ, the temporary tribunal only used the hall room of the PCA during court hearing. The arbitral tribunal is just a provisional organization set at the unilateral request of the Philippines for compulsory arbitration.

*An unnamed staff member of the PCA told People’s Daily that arbitrators of this temporary set-up have no work ethic and they only care about money. “This institution is no place for justice. It has been reduced to a commercial venue for private interests,” said the employee.*

*In an interview with People’s Daily, Rao Pemmaraju, former Chairman of the International Law Commission, explicitly pointed out that territorial issues are not subject to the United Nations Convention of the Law of the Sea and delimitation issues have been excluded from compulsory arbitration procedures in statements of the Chinese government, thus the tribunal has no jurisdiction over the case. *


http://en.people.cn/n3/2016/0716/c90000-9086845.html

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## cochine

*Abe stresses rule of law at meeting with Chinese Premier Li Keqiang*
Posted on July 16, 2016




1181
SHARES
Share on FacebookTweet on Twitter
Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe and Chinese Premier Li Keqiang held talks in Ulan Bator Friday, days after an international tribunal ruled Beijing’s claims in the South China Sea have no basis in international law.

Abe stressed the need to resolve South China Sea conflicts in a peaceful manner under the rule of law.

The Chinese government has rejected the closely watched ruling, saying in a statement that it is “null and void and has no binding force.” The Japanese government has urged China to accept it.

The leaders met on the sidelines of a two-day summit of Asian and European leaders in the Mongolian capital, where Abe has pledged to emphasize the importance of the peaceful resolution of disputes under the rule of law.

After the Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague on Tuesday rejected China’s claims to historic and economic rights over the South China Sea in a case brought by the Philippines. (PNA/Kyodo)


----------



## Globenim

The only winner is the U.S. after they destroyed the legitimacy of UNCLOS and the tribunal with their extreme blackmailing and pressure on parties to force them to step out of their bounds and do break convention people have agreed upon.

They see their power gap waning now they trey to destroy every diplomatic channel that that ought to stabilize their "enemies".

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## SEAISI

hey viets, you are next

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## bobsm

*Chinese premier wins backing over South China Sea at ASEM Summit*
(Xinhua) 08:28, July 17, 2016
(Xinhua/Ma Zhancheng)


ULAN BATOR, July 16 -- In Mongolia over the weekend, Chinese Premier Li Keqiang's effort to promote China's stance on the South China Seaissue received broad support during the 11th Asian-Europe Meeting (ASEM) Summit.

Li said Saturday before he returned to China that the South China Sea arbitration award will have no impact on China's territorial sovereignty and maritime interests.

Speaking in an informal meeting during the summit, Li said the South China Sea issue should not be subject to multilateral discussions from the very beginning, or be included in the summit's agenda.

"But since certain countries commented on the issue, it is thus necessary for China to come out to clarify its stance and spell out the truth," he said.

Li said China has never participated in the arbitration unilaterally initiated by the Philippines, adding that his country neither accepts nor acknowledges the so-called arbitration award.

"By doing so, we are both exercising our rights in accordance with international law, and safeguarding the dignity of international law," he said.

"Under no circumstance will the arbitration award exert any impact on China's territorial sovereignty and maritime rights and interests in the South China Sea," Li added.

The Chinese premier said China remains committed to settling the South China Sea disputes via dialogue and consultation with countries directly involved on the basis of historical facts and in accordance with international law, so as to safeguard peace and stability in the South China Sea.

This is the first time the Chinese premier has made an open statement on the South China Sea issue at an international forum following the South China Sea arbitration award issued Tuesday.

Li did not include the issue in his keynote speech at the start of the two-day summit. However, faced with certain nations' attempts to stir up tension and interfere in the South China Sea issue in the summit, Li expounded China's stance of non-acceptance of and non-participation in the arbitration proceedings, as part of his diplomatic offensive.

In a meeting with his Vietnamese counterpart Nguyen Xuan Phuc Thursday, Li said the South China Sea issue should be solved through bilateral negotiations between relevant parties in line with historical facts, international law and the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea (DOC).

One day later, he told Cambodian Prime Minister Samdech Techo Hun Sen that China will work with members of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) to protect regional peace and stability as well as the freedom of navigation in the South China Sea.

Li's toughest remarks were directed at Japan, which, according to a Chinese diplomat that demanded anonymity, had sought in vain to include the arbitration case into the chair's statement of the summit.

Tokyo, not a state directly involved in the South China Sea issue, should thus stop hyping up and interfering in the South China Sea issue and "exercise caution in its own words and deeds," Li told Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe in a Friday meeting at the latter's request.

China's stance on the issue is completely in line with international law and the DOC, Li said.

The Chinese premier's statements have been keenly received and won the backing from a number of Asian and European heavyweight leaders.

In the meeting with Li, Vietnam's Nguyen Xuan Phuc said his nation respects China's stance on the arbitration, adding that the disputes should be solved peacefully through negotiations.

Lao Prime Minister Thongloun Sisoulith said on the same day that Laos supports China's stance over the South China Sea issue, and stands ready to work with China to maintain peace and stability in the region.

Their words were echoed by Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen, who said on Friday that his country supports settlement of the South China Sea disputes through dialogue and consultation between countries directly concerned.

Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev also said Russia opposes the internationalization of the South China Sea disputes or any interference by the forces outside the region.

Russia supports China's principles on resolving the disputes, Medvedev said. He called for bilateral negotiations and consultations between directly relevant parties to solve the issue.

According to the anonymous Chinese diplomat, a vast number of countries "expressed understanding of China's stance in difference forms" and "accepted our stance on dispute settlement via dialogue and consultation."

"On the one hand, more and more countries have come to understand China's standpoints via extensive exchanges with the Chinese side," he said.

"On the other hand, the Nice attack had shed light on the importance of peace and stability," he added, referring to Thursday's truck attack in southern Francethat has claimed over 80 lives.

"We realize that the real threat in front of us is terrorism. There are neither wars nor conflicts in the South China Sea. Only a volatile South China Sea would threaten regional peace and stability," the diplomat noted. "Our 'friends circle' on the South China Sea issue seems to be getting bigger and bigger."

http://en.people.cn/n3/2016/0717/c90000-9087190.html

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## cochine

SEAISI said:


> hey viets, you are next



yes, the next case will be submitted to PCA is Paracel Islands in Cochin 交趾 Sea. as Chinese had recognized long before in the past. there is is historical sea territory òf Vietnam.


----------



## yusheng

Beidou2020 said:


> What's the full displacement of the tug?



i don't know its displacement.

the main character of a tug is its power usually indicated by horsepower, not its displacement, just as a truck is not a tractor. this one al teast has 10000 hoursepower.





tugs are good at extrusion, dragging, impacting, so the use of tug in PLAN is obvious when you can not use weapon. such size tug is not prepared for viet's and pino's warships.
note, PLAN tugs are not used against foreign civilian ships, we have other tugs to fulfill the tasks. 
you can see the viet used tugs too.























if anyone can play "international laws" in such a cheap way, then no one will finally respect the "international laws", that is why Chinese Foreign ministry spokesman says, australian looked down upon the "international laws" , to the end, it is not about the fame of a nation, but the world wild war to rebuild world orders and laws. 

and that is why too, the UN , and many other countires tried to stand away form the PCA.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## SEAISI

kecho said:


> yes, the next case will be submitted to PCA is Paracel Islands in Cochin 交趾 Sea. as Chinese had recognized long before in the past. there is is historical sea territory òf Vietnam.



Do it, otherwise you are my grandson lol 



yusheng said:


> i don't know its displacement.
> 
> the main character of a tug is its power usually indicated by horsepower, not its displacement, just as a truck is not a tractor. this one al teast has 10000 hoursepower.
> View attachment 318341
> 
> 
> tugs are good at extrusion, dragging, impacting, so the use of tug in PLAN is obvious when you can not use weapon. such size tug is not prepared for viet's and pino's warships.
> note, PLAN tugs are not used against foreign civilian ships, we have other tugs to fulfill the tasks.
> you can see the viet used tugs too.
> View attachment 318333
> View attachment 318334
> View attachment 318335
> View attachment 318336
> View attachment 318337
> View attachment 318338
> View attachment 318339
> 
> 
> if anyone can play "international laws" in such a cheap way, then no one will finally respect the "international laws", that is why Chinese Foreign ministry spokesman says, australian looked down upon the "international laws" , to the end, it is not about the fame of a nation, but the world wild war to rebuild world orders and laws.
> 
> and that is why too, the UN , and many other countires tried to stand away form the PCA.



Beautiful ship! Crush those trepassing viets with no mercy

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## JSCh

*Japanese archives confirm Chinese settled on South China Sea islands*
(Xinhua) 08:55, July 17, 2016

NANJING, July 13 -- When Japanese explorer Takeji Miyoshi's expedition dropped anchor near a small island in the South China Sea on Aug. 19, 1933, they were received by three Chinese fishermen.

Takeji's diary entry stated that the fishermen had built houses on Beizi (Northeast Cay), one of the Nansha Islands, which are also known as the Spratly chain. The fishermen offered to show the crew around the island.

Following this first interaction with Chinese residents, Takeji Miyoshi discovered it was not a chance meeting, as he explored the area he found that many of the other islands were home to groups of Chinese fishermen.

He wrote that a large number of fishermen from Hainan had relocated to the small islands in the South China Sea. His team kept detailed records on the daily lives of the fishermen, who called these islands home. Their archives include information on agriculture cultivation and a birth register.

Hu Zhuoran, a member of the Modern History Association in east China's Jiangsu Province, has been researching Miyoshi's documents.

He said that the Japanese had collected lots of details on Chinese inhabitants of the Nansha Islands.

"The archives show that Chinese actually lived on and explored the islands. They were settled," Hu said.

The central government on Tuesday refused to recognize an tribunal award issued on the South China Sea, which denied China's territorial sovereignty on the sea.

The award by the Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague stated that all of the "features" in the Spratly chain mean the islands are legally "rocks."

The Philippines sought the arbitration from the tribunal on several issues related to its territorial disputes with China.

The Spratly chain is known as the Nansha Islands to China.

The Japanese explorer, in his ledger, said that his expedition team saw anti-Japanese posters across the island of Zhongye.

The posters were related to the Japanese invasion of northeast China in 1931.

Hu Dekun, head of the China Institute of Boundary and Ocean Studies with the Wuhan University, said that records show that in 1939, Japan occupied all of the Xisha and Nansha islands.

After the World War II, China recovered its sovereignty and jurisdiction over the islands in compliance of the Cairo Declaration, which states that "the territories stolen by Japan from China should be returned to China."

In 1948, an official Chinese map of the South China Sea was released to the International Community. None of the countries in the sea area objected to China's nine-dashed line demarcation.

Hu pointed out that before the Philippines gained independence in 1946, America had not recognized Nansha Islands as Philippine territory.

In 1970s, the Philippines illegally occupied the islands. As a smoke screen, it described the largest island, Taiping Island, as a "rock", in a rejection of China's sovereignty over the island and its surrounding waters.

The "rock," however, had six freshwater wells and lush vegetation when China recovered it from Japan.

According to Japanese archives, during its occupation of Taiping Island, Japanese mined phosphate, and it was home to over 600 people.

Hu said there was plenty of evidence showing the Nansha Islands and its adjacent waters to be Chinese territory. The Chinese people were the first to name and develop the islands and it was the Chinese government that first asserted sovereignty over them.

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## lcloo

No opposition againt China in South China Sea ruling except Japan's Abe who had sought in vain to include the arbitration case into the chair's statement of the summit in Asia-Europe Meeting ASEM summit in Mongolia this week end, attended by prime ministers and presidents of Asian and Europen countries.

European countries refused to support Japan's Abe. Not even Vietnam's Nguyen Xuan Phuc voiced any support for Abe for his vain attempt.

Note: ASEM membership has 51 countries from Europe and Asia, plus European Union and ASEAN Secretariat having a separate membership.

*Spotlight: Chinese premier wins backing over South China Sea at ASEM Summit* Source: Xinhua | 2016-07-16 21:39:36 | Editor: huaxia






ULAN BATOR, July 15, 2016 (Xinhua) -- Chinese PremierLi Keqiang(C, front) delivers a speech during the 11th Asia-Europe Meeting (ASEM) Summit in Ulan Bator, Mongolia, July 15, 2016.(Xinhua/Ma Zhancheng)

ULAN BATOR, July 16 (Xinhua) -- In Mongolia over the weekend, Chinese Premier Li Keqiang's effort to promote China's stance on the South China Sea issue received broad support during the 11th Asian-Europe Meeting (ASEM) Summit.

Li said Saturday before he returned to China that the South China Sea arbitration award will have no impact on China's territorial sovereignty and maritime interests.

Speaking in an informal meeting during the summit, Li said the South China Sea issue should not be subject to multilateral discussions from the very beginning, or be included in the summit's agenda.

"But since certain countries commented on the issue, it is thus necessary for China to come out to clarify its stance and spell out the truth," he said.

Li said China has never participated in the arbitration unilaterally initiated by the Philippines, adding that his country neither accepts nor acknowledges the so-called arbitration award.

"By doing so, we are both exercising our rights in accordance with international law, and safeguarding the dignity of international law," he said.

"Under no circumstance will the arbitration award exert any impact on China's territorial sovereignty and maritime rights and interests in the South China Sea," Li added.

The Chinese premier said China remains committed to settling the South China Sea disputes via dialogue and consultation with countries directly involved on the basis of historical facts and in accordance with international law, so as to safeguard peace and stability in the South China Sea.

This is the first time the Chinese premier has made an open statement on the South China Sea issue at an international forum following the South China Sea arbitration award issued Tuesday.

Li did not include the issue in his keynote speech at the start of the two-day summit. However, faced with certain nations' attempts to stir up tension and interfere in the South China Sea issue in the summit, Li expounded China's stance of non-acceptance of and non-participation in the arbitration proceedings, as part of his diplomatic offensive.

In a meeting with his Vietnamese counterpart Nguyen Xuan Phuc Thursday, Li said the South China Sea issue should be solved through bilateral negotiations between relevant parties in line with historical facts, international law and the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea (DOC).

One day later, he told Cambodian Prime Minister Samdech Techo Hun Sen that China will work with members of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) to protect regional peace and stability as well as the freedom of navigation in the South China Sea.

Li's toughest remarks were directed at Japan, which, according to a Chinese diplomat that demanded anonymity, had sought in vain to include the arbitration case into the chair's statement of the summit.

Tokyo, not a state directly involved in the South China Sea issue, should thus stop hyping up and interfering in the South China Sea issue and "exercise caution in its own words and deeds," Li told Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe in a Friday meeting at the latter's request.

China's stance on the issue is completely in line with international law and the DOC, Li said.

The Chinese premier's statements have been keenly received and won the backing from a number of Asian and European heavyweight leaders.

In the meeting with Li, Vietnam's Nguyen Xuan Phuc said his nation respects China's stance on the arbitration, adding that the disputes should be solved peacefully through negotiations.

Lao Prime Minister Thongloun Sisoulith said on the same day that Laos supports China's stance over the South China Sea issue, and stands ready to work with China to maintain peace and stability in the region.

Their words were echoed by Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen, who said on Friday that his country supports settlement of the South China Sea disputes through dialogue and consultation between countries directly concerned.

Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev also said Russia opposes the internationalization of the South China Sea disputes or any interference by the forces outside the region.

Russia supports China's principles on resolving the disputes, Medvedev said. He called for bilateral negotiations and consultations between directly relevant parties to solve the issue.

According to the anonymous Chinese diplomat, a vast number of countries "expressed understanding of China's stance in difference forms" and "accepted our stance on dispute settlement via dialogue and consultation."

"On the one hand, more and more countries have come to understand China's standpoints via extensive exchanges with the Chinese side," he said.

"On the other hand, the Nice attack had shed light on the importance of peace and stability," he added, referring to Thursday's truck attack in southern France that has claimed over 80 lives.

"We realize that the real threat in front of us is terrorism. There are neither wars nor conflicts in the South China Sea. Only a volatile South China Sea would threaten regional peace and stability," the diplomat noted. "Our 'friends circle' on the South China Sea issue seems to be getting bigger and bigger."

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## Tiqiu

*South China Sea: Vietnam detains activists after international ruling*
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-07-17/vietnam-detains-activists-after-south-china-sea-ruling/7636228

"30 Vietnamese activists were swiftly bundled onto waiting buses and cars by security forces after they gathered to hold a protest near the city's famous Hoan Kiem lake, a common spot for demonstrations."

As a PDF member, I am really concerned about some Vietnamese members here and hope they are Okay.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Tiqiu

CSIS: China's Response to the South China Sea Arbitration Ruling

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## bobsm

*Europe goes soft with China over South China Sea ruling * 
BY EMANUELE SCIMIA on JULY 14, 2016 in ASIA TIMES NEWS & FEATURES, CHINA, SOUTHEAST ASIA

ROME–In the past days some observers alleged that the European Union (EU) would take on a more vigorous position on the current South China Sea territorial spats. Nothing of that sort happened in the aftermath of the much-expected ruling of the Permanent Court of Arbitration in the Hague on China’s claims to a large part of the disputed waters, with the EU leaders remaining faithful to their usual cautious approach to the issue.

The arbitration court in the Hague ruled on July 12 against China’s demands over vast portions of the South China Sea, upholding the Philippines’ objections to Beijing’s legal and historical rationale. The case was brought to the court by the Philippine government in 2013. Manila has overlapping claims with China and other neighboring countries on waters and natural features in the region.

*One day later, at the end of the 18th EU-China summit in Beijing, European Council President Donald Tusk voiced his hope that the arbitration court ruling would be a positive step to settle the territorial disputes in the South China Sea. Tusk did not clearly call on China to obey the award; in a softer tone, he reiterated the EU’s full confidence in the work and procedures of the arbitration court in the Hague and Brussels’ support of the international law, not least of the United Nations convention on the law of the sea. In Tusk’s words, “the rule-based international order is in our common interest and both China and the EU have to protect it.”*

EU’s rules-based stance

The EU has a legalistic approach to the South China Sea issue and advances the argument that any solution to the problem should be rules-based and in accordance with the international law. This is the same concept that leads Brussels to maintain economic and financial sanctions on Russia over its annexation of the Crimea and backing of rebel groups in Eastern Ukraine, though restrictions against the Kremlin have negative fallouts for the EU state members.

The vision of a rule-bound system of global relations is probably the quintessence of the now tarnished European dream and is shared by most of the EU leaders. Despite its recent bid for exit from the EU – the so-called Brexit – and the increasing economic connections that it has set up with China over the past year, even Britain has always been in line with the EU’s stance on the South China Sea disputes, contending that Beijing must respect the arbitration court’s verdict.

*However, any exhortations from the EU that China complies with the ruling delivered by the arbitration court in the Hague will be confined to the realm of principled positions. It is doubtful that the European bloc and its single state members will welcome recent calls from the Washington-based Center for Strategic and International Studies for a transatlantic initiative to inflict economic and financial penalties on China over its refusal to obey the arbitration court’s legal decision; and this even though the EU Commission has recently called for the reinforcement of the EU-US cooperation and coordination in the Asian-Pacific region.*

No EU SCS patrols?

*It is also highly improbable that EU nations will embark on “regular and visible” patrols in the South China Sea to affirm freedom of navigation and overflight, as suggested by French Defense Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian during the Shangri-La Dialogue in Singapore last June.*

Still, after a long period of disengagement in East Asia, Europe is showing a more concrete interest in the region’s affairs. Le Drian’s words in Singapore fall within this logic and the same goes for the first participation in the US-promoted Rim of the Pacific (RIMPAC) drills by Germany, Italy and Denmark, which joined with regular European participants such as France, Britain, the Netherlands and Norway on June 30.

As early as April, the EU External Action Service raised the European bloc’s concerns over the climate of instability in the South China Sea. Underlining the EU’s neutral policy over the disputes, Brussels maintains that it has a stake in the region, where half the world’s trade passes through. The argument in the Old Continent is that in the current interconnected world the economic security of Europe is linked to stability in East Asia and other parts of the globe.

*All that said, Europe is still in economic disarray and dramatically needs Chinese investments for its recovery, as well as China’s huge trade market as an outlet for its exports. In a recent position paper, the EU Commission refers to “the constructive management of differences” between Brussels and Beijing, meaning that the EU will be careful not to make a fuss about the South China Sea controversies.*


http://atimes.com/2016/07/europe-goes-soft-with-china-over-south-china-sea-ruling/

Reactions: Like Like:
12


----------



## cochine



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## bobsm

*World should heed US interests in South China Sea arbitration -- Egyptian experts*
Source:Xinhua Published: 2016-7-16 13:49:48

Egyptian experts say the international community should be vigilant about veiled US interests in the South China Sea arbitration case. 

Though it was the Philippines that initiated the case against China, the United States predominated it, Diyaa El-Fiqy, a political analyst on international affairs, told Xinhua. 

"In the past, the Philippines signed a deal to solve the problem in a friendly way via negotiations, but it reversed its promises under US pressures and went to arbitration," he said. 

The United States uses the freedom of navigation as a pretext to interfere in the South China Sea through the Philippines, El-Fiqy added. 

*"The United States is entirely upset about the development of China as a powerful country," he said."This is their biggest fear." *

El-Fiqy's remarks were echoed by Nabil Zaki, who said Washington has exerted pressure on the arbitral tribunal. 

"The United States wants to stir up a new cold war in the region to contain a fast-growing China both economically and politically," Zaki said. 

El-Fiqy said people should pay attention to the logic of Washington behind the issue, the same as behind the Iraq War, which was recently exposed by Britain's investigation report on the Iraq War. 

*The United States has double-standard policies because it has never respected international law, and it invaded Iraq without approval from the United Nations Security Council, El-Fiqy said. *

The Iraq War destabilized the Middle East, leading to the rise of the Islamic State group, he added. 

Washington's worries about China are not justified, and it "seeks to repeat the Iraqi mess to prevent China from growing," the expert concluded. 

Zaki reckons Washington's intervention in countries of the Middle East are intended for resources in the region. "After the Middle East, It is trying to poke its nose into the South China Sea now," he said. 


http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/994648.shtml

Reactions: Like Like:
13


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

bobsm said:


> *World should heed US interests in South China Sea arbitration -- Egyptian experts*
> Source:Xinhua Published: 2016-7-16 13:49:48
> 
> Egyptian experts say the international community should be vigilant about veiled US interests in the South China Sea arbitration case.
> 
> Though it was the Philippines that initiated the case against China, the United States predominated it, Diyaa El-Fiqy, a political analyst on international affairs, told Xinhua.
> 
> "In the past, the Philippines signed a deal to solve the problem in a friendly way via negotiations, but it reversed its promises under US pressures and went to arbitration," he said.
> 
> The United States uses the freedom of navigation as a pretext to interfere in the South China Sea through the Philippines, El-Fiqy added.
> 
> *"The United States is entirely upset about the development of China as a powerful country," he said."This is their biggest fear." *
> 
> El-Fiqy's remarks were echoed by Nabil Zaki, who said Washington has exerted pressure on the arbitral tribunal.
> 
> "The United States wants to stir up a new cold war in the region to contain a fast-growing China both economically and politically," Zaki said.
> 
> El-Fiqy said people should pay attention to the logic of Washington behind the issue, the same as behind the Iraq War, which was recently exposed by Britain's investigation report on the Iraq War.
> 
> *The United States has double-standard policies because it has never respected international law, and it invaded Iraq without approval from the United Nations Security Council, El-Fiqy said. *
> 
> The Iraq War destabilized the Middle East, leading to the rise of the Islamic State group, he added.
> 
> Washington's worries about China are not justified, and it "seeks to repeat the Iraqi mess to prevent China from growing," the expert concluded.
> 
> Zaki reckons Washington's intervention in countries of the Middle East are intended for resources in the region. "After the Middle East, It is trying to poke its nose into the South China Sea now," he said.
> 
> 
> http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/994648.shtml



AS I opined earlier on, everyone is a loser here except USA.

*Imagine USA who is not a signatory of the UNCLOS meaning USA does not respected your 200NM EEZ now called on the China to respects international law meaning Philippines 200NM EEZ (PCA is a European Tribunal panel from 1899 and was never a part of the UN, ICJ is whose ruling USA failed to respect)*

In an Arbitration Process, *

The judges must be shown to be IMPARTIAL but are they?* Since Shunji Yanai ( a well known Japanese Rightist) *by appointment, paid and report to Albert Del Rosaria, the former Philippines Minister of Foreign Affair* selected all his 5 judges and their approval by Philippines. ( All their fees and expenses paid by Philippines), how can they considered themselves as IMPARTIAL.

Next China has truly compliied with international law by citing Article 298, hence she is right indeed. The panel has neither the jurisdiction nor the enforcement power to force China to participate.

In conclusion, as I opined *Philippines WON a Political Victory but it is a HOLLOW victory* and the newly installed Phiilippines President Duterte understands it. He now called for bilateral negotiation and discussion as a way forward.

Reactions: Like Like:
11


----------



## Han Patriot

As I mentioned earlier, nothing will change. The base building will continue, America will patrol nearby and 'challenge' China, and China will protest. In the end, the bases are still there, getting reinforced by the day. After 15 years when 3 battlegroups are formed and the DF-26/21 targeting systems are complete. Nobody will dare challenge the ADIZ.

Reactions: Like Like:
13


----------



## cochine

* Deployment of UN peacekeepers in West Philippine Sea proposed *

July 17, 2016 Ruben Santos 


Senator Panfilo Lacson last week said that United Nations (UN) Peacekeepers could be deployed to West Philippine Sea to protect Filipino fishermen following the decision of Tribunal at the Permanent Court of Arbitration.

“With all its military might, I don’t think gegerahin [ng China] yung United Nations. Makakalaban nila dun community of nations na,” the Senator said as quoted by CNN Philippines.

The Philippines is actively sending troops in support of UN’s peacekeeping missions around the world. There are currently 16 peacekeeping operations led by UN Department of Peacekeeping Operations.

Just recently, July 8, the Armed Forces of the Philippines (AFP) has deployed 135-strong all-Army 20th Philippine Contingent to Haiti (PCH) to support United Nations Stabilization Mission in Haiti (MINUSTAH).

The 20th PCH replaces the all-Air Force 19th PCH which arrived in the country July 11. The 19th PCH members were given their United Nations Service Medals at the GHQ Canopy Area, Camp Aguinaldo, Quezon City.

The UN does not have its own military force, it only depends on contributions from Member States.

In addition to maintaining peace and security, peacekeepers are increasingly charged with assisting in political processes; reforming judicial systems; training law enforcement and police forces; disarming and reintegrating former combatants; supporting the return of internally displaced persons and refugees.

http://www.update.ph/2016/07/deployment-of-un-peacekeepers-in-west-philippine-sea-proposed/7649

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## bobsm

kecho said:


> * Deployment of UN peacekeepers in West Philippine Sea proposed *
> 
> July 17, 2016 Ruben Santos
> 
> 
> Senator Panfilo Lacson last week said that United Nations (UN) Peacekeepers could be deployed to West Philippine Sea to protect Filipino fishermen following the decision of Tribunal at the Permanent Court of Arbitration.
> 
> “With all its military might, I don’t think gegerahin [ng China] yung United Nations. Makakalaban nila dun community of nations na,” the Senator said as quoted by CNN Philippines.
> 
> The Philippines is actively sending troops in support of UN’s peacekeeping missions around the world. There are currently 16 peacekeeping operations led by UN Department of Peacekeeping Operations.
> 
> Just recently, July 8, the Armed Forces of the Philippines (AFP) has deployed 135-strong all-Army 20th Philippine Contingent to Haiti (PCH) to support United Nations Stabilization Mission in Haiti (MINUSTAH).
> 
> The 20th PCH replaces the all-Air Force 19th PCH which arrived in the country July 11. The 19th PCH members were given their United Nations Service Medals at the GHQ Canopy Area, Camp Aguinaldo, Quezon City.
> 
> The UN does not have its own military force, it only depends on contributions from Member States.
> 
> In addition to maintaining peace and security, peacekeepers are increasingly charged with assisting in political processes; reforming judicial systems; training law enforcement and police forces; disarming and reintegrating former combatants; supporting the return of internally displaced persons and refugees.
> 
> http://www.update.ph/2016/07/deployment-of-un-peacekeepers-in-west-philippine-sea-proposed/7649



Good luck with that.

http://www.un.org/en/peacekeeping/operations/rolesc.shtml

*



Role of the Security Council

The Security Council has primary responsibility, under the United Nations Charter, for the maintenance of international peace and security.

It is for the Security Council to determine when and where a UN Peacekeeping operation should be deployed.

Click to expand...

*
And as a permanent member, China has Veto power:



> *Under Article 27 of the UN Charter, Security Council decisions on all substantive matters require the affirmative votes of nine members. A negative vote or "veto" by a permanent member prevents adoption of a proposal, even if it has received the required votes.*

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## yusheng

南海7月19日、20日、21日（0700-1700）将在19-20N/110-33E、18-40N/110-25E、18-40N/111-04E、19-20N/111-04E，四点连线水域范围内进行军事活动，禁止驶入。

HN0053 SOUTH CHINA SEA MILITARY EXERCISES 2300UTC TO 0900UTC DAILY FROM 18 JUL TO 21 JUL IN AREA BOUNDED BY 1)19-20N/110-33E,2)18-40N/110-25E,3)18-40N/111-04E,4) 19-20N/111-04E. ENTERING PROHIBITED. HAINAN M.S.A.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## bobsm

*Diplomacy, not courthouse, key to resolving South China Sea dispute: European Parliament member*
Source:Xinhua Published: 2016-7-15 23:38:35

Diplomacy, instead of courthouse, is the right path to solve the South China Sea disputes between China and its neighbors, a European Parliament member said Thursday. 

Helmut Scholz, member of the European Parliamentary Group of the European United Left-Nordic Green Left, told Xinhua that the award of an arbitral tribunal in The Hague cannot replace negotiations, which is evidently clear when taking into account the reactions of all the parties involved. 

On Tuesday, the tribunal handling the South China Sea arbitration case unilaterally initiated by the former Philippine government issued its final award, denying China's long-standing historic rights in the South China Sea. 

"The negotiations should focus on three areas: avoiding military confrontation, guaranteeing safety of passage and emphasizing mutually beneficial cooperation," Scholz added. 

He believed that the time has come for Beijing and Manila to work together through mutual cooperation and confidence building in a bid to end the territorial dispute. 

"As we have seen in common fisheries policies and closer cooperation on environmental protection and marine research, such an approach is entirely logical," he cited his experience as a member in the Committee on International Trade of European Parliament. 

*Scholz's opinion echoed a white paper issued by the Chinese government on Wednesday as a response to the ill-founded award, saying China adheres to the position of settling the South China Sea disputes through negotiation. 

"Mutual engagement can only help contribute to the strengthening of international law and, crucially, to help build on the foundations of bilateral and multilateral relationships which are based on lawful and objective policies," Scholz concluded.*


http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/994592.shtml

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## Tiqiu

yusheng said:


> 南海7月19日、20日、21日（0700-1700）将在19-20N/110-33E、18-40N/110-25E、18-40N/111-04E、19-20N/111-04E，四点连线水域范围内进行军事活动，禁止驶入。
> 
> HN0053 SOUTH CHINA SEA MILITARY EXERCISES 2300UTC TO 0900UTC DAILY FROM 18 JUL TO 21 JUL IN AREA BOUNDED BY 1)19-20N/110-33E,2)18-40N/110-25E,3)18-40N/111-04E,4) 19-20N/111-04E. ENTERING PROHIBITED. HAINAN M.S.A.

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## cochine

*Vietnam News Agency refutes China’s coverage about East Sea issue*

VNA MONDAY, JULY 18, 2016 - 21:06:53  PRINT




China's illegal construction in the East Sea (Source: VNA)


*Hanoi (VNA) *– The Vietnam News Agency on July 18 was empowered to declare refuting untruthful coverage by the Chinese press regarding the East Sea issue which was discussed during a meeting between Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc and Chinese Premier Li Keqiang on the sidelines of the Asia-Europe Meeting (ASEM) Summit in Ulan Bator, Mongolia on July 14. 

Following the meeting, a number of Chinese official press outlets, including Xinhua, the English version of newswire chinadaily.com.cn and the Chinese version of the People’s Daily quoted PM Nguyen Xuan Phuc as saying that “Vietnam respects China’s stance on the South China Sea arbitration case, which was unilaterally initiated by the Philippines, and maintains that such disputes should be solved peacefully through negotiations” and “Vietnam stands ready to push forward bilateral maritime negotiations and properly manage differences with China, in order to contribute to regional peace and stability”. 

In fact, PM Phuc asked both sides to seriously realise agreements and common perceptions by senior leaders, including the agreement on basic principles guiding the settlement of issues at sea between Vietnam and China signed by Party Secretary General Nguyen Phu Trong and his Chinese counterpart Hu Jintao in October 2011. 

He said it is meant to promote mechanisms of negotiating sea-related issues, manage differences at sea, avoid further complicating the situation, and fully and effectively realise the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the East Sea as well as reach a Code a Conduct in the East Sea soon, contributing to maintaining peace and stability in the region. 

The Vietnamese PM also reaffirmed Vietnam’s stance on the ruling of the Permanent Court of Arbitration on July 12, 2016 in The Hague, the Netherlands, on the Philippines’ lawsuit against China in the East Sea issue. 

Earlier on July 12, Foreign Ministry’s spokesman Le Hai Binh said Vietnam welcomes the arbitration tribunal’s issuance of the final ruling on July 12, 

“Vietnam once again reiterates its consistent stance on this lawsuit as it was fully shown in the Vietnamese Foreign Ministry’s Declaration on December 5, 2014, sent to the arbitration tribunal,” he noted. 

“In that spirit, Vietnam strongly supports settling disputes in the East Sea through peaceful measures, including diplomatic and legal processes without the use or threat to use force, as in line with regulations of international law, including the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, maintaining peace and stability in the region, security, safety and freedom of navigation in and overflight over the East Sea, and respecting the law-abiding principle in seas and oceans,” Binh said. 

“On this occasion, Vietnam once again affirms its sovereignty over Hoang Sa (Paracel) and Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelagos, the sovereignty over internal waters and territorial waters, the sovereign right and jurisdiction over Vietnam’s exclusive economic zone and continental shelf as defined in line with the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea. 

“Vietnam upholds all of its legitimate rights and interests regarding the geographical structures belonging to Hoang Sa and Truong Sa archipelagoes,” stated the spokesperson.-VNA

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## homing28

http://http://61.155.167.13/data1/video09/2016/07/18/4146992-102-1942.mp4

Reactions: Like Like:
13


----------



## grey boy 2



Reactions: Like Like:
11


----------



## grey boy 2



Reactions: Like Like:
12


----------



## TaiShang

*Chinese vice president appreciates Laos' support on South China Sea*
Xinhua, July 19, 2016

Chinese Vice President Li Yuanchao on Tuesday met with Lao Defense Minister Chansamone Chanyalath, expressing China's appreciation for Laos' support on the South China Sea issue.

"China appreciates Laos' firm support on the South China Sea issue," Li told Chansamone during their meeting in Beijing.

China holds that the issue can only be solved through dialogue and negotiation, said Li, adding that this position was "consistent and unwavering."

Stressing that the two countries share common development opportunities through cooperation, Li said he hoped China and Laos could deepen mutually beneficial cooperation to advance their comprehensive strategic partnership.

Chansamone said Laos greatly valued cooperation with China.

Laos has always understood and supported China's stance on the South China Sea issue, backing the peaceful settlement of disputes through negotiation between the countries directly concerned, he said.

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Soryu

cnleio said:


> Keep going ... the time when u building the island, China already made ten more in the region. U knew that it's a game u can't win vs China in real world. maybe U can dream the American or Japanese someone willing to die for Vietnam island in SCS to stop China, or as far as i know ADIZ in SCS will coming. When the day come, just enjoy it.
> 
> 
> Who can stop China in SCS ? Only the WAR, which one take first ?



Oh, come on, those bullshjt again, cnleio !?
War, begging Americanm, Japanese ... etc !? If you want the war, fire a bullet first. You, not anyone else.

Did you know what I want to say !? What a waste of time.


----------



## bobsm

*Taiwan lawmakers and fishermen head to South China Sea’s Taiping Island to declare sovereignty and fishing rights*

Moves come after an international tribunal in the Hague rejected Taipei’s right to an exclusive economic zone around Taiping on July 12

PUBLISHED : Wednesday, 20 July, 2016, 12:19pm
UPDATED : Wednesday, 20 July, 2016, 12:46pm







Minnie Chan
minnie.chan@scmp.com

*Taiwanese lawmakers, fishing flotilla bound for Taiping Island*
19 Jul 2016

Twenty Taiwanese lawmakers and fishermen departed for Taiping Island in the South China Sea on Wednesday to declare Taiwan’s sovereignty and fishing rights in the area.

The moves come after an international tribunal in the Hague on July 12 rejected Taipei’s right to an exclusive economic zone around Taiping.

*Eight lawmakers from Taiwan’s ruling Democratic Progressive Party and opposition Kuomintang (KMT) flew from Pingtung county to Taiping Island to declare Taipei’s sovereignty over the island.*

Twelve fishermen set off in a five-boat flotilla at noon on Wednesday from southern Pingtung to Taiping to uphold what they say are Taiwan’s fishing rights to the waters.

The delegation of politicians, led by KMT lawmaker Chiang Chi-chen, boarded a military aircraft from

Pingtung at 7.20am and was expected to land on the island at 10.50 am, the official China News Agency said.

Chiang criticised Taiwan’s government for not taking substantial action to defend the island’s sovereignty in the region.

During the visit the lawmakers would visit the military facilities on the island, as well as its weather station and solar power and satellite equipment, before returning to Pingtung at 1.10 pm, the agency said.

Ten fishing boats from Pingtung had originally planned to take part in the action, but five of them dropped out after receiving warnings from fishery authorities, organisers said.

Cheng Chun-chung, the fishing boat owner who initiated the action, said he had been told by a fisheries official in Taiwan that he would have his boat licence revoked if he sailed to the island, because his vessel was permitted to sail only between Taiwan, the mainland and Hong Kong.

However, Cheng said he would not back down – even at the risk of having his licence revoked. Organisers received a box of clothes and hats bearing the Republic of China flag design from a supporter in Taichung, who urged the fishermen to wear them.

The Permanent Court of Arbitration in the Hague ruled on July 12 that all high-tide features in the South China Sea, including Itu Aba, known as Taiping in Chinese, were rocks rather than islands and therefore were not entitled to 200-nautical-mile economic zones under international law.

An island is entitled to a 200-nautical-mile exclusive economic zone, while “rocks” are permitted to have only a 12-nautical-mile zone.

Taiwan’s President Tsai Ing-wen and her administration were not a party to the tribunal case, called the ruling unacceptable and said it was not binding on Taiwan.


http://www.scmp.com/news/china/dipl...d-fishermen-head-south-china-seas#add-comment

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## cnleio



Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## cochine

*Philippines starts building own multi-mission offshore vessels*

January 29, 2016 Gloria Seloza Nation 0



The Philippine government has started building two 50.5-meter Multi-mission Offshore Vessels (MMOV) on January 27, Thursday during the Keel Laying Ceremony for said vessels. The vessels will be assigned to Department of Agriculture – Bureau of Fisheries and Aquatic Resources (DA-BFAR).

The said vessels will be first in their class to be built in the Philippines. Each vessel costs PhP 178.5 Million.

“This momentous event indicates the government’s serious commitment for inclusive growth and poverty alleviation in all sectors, particularly agriculture and fisheries sectors, as we further intensify the country’s stance against illegal, unreported and unregulated fishing,” said Agriculture Secretary Proceso J. Alcala who was present at the Keel Laying Ceremony with Jose Luis Alano of National Coast Watch Center (NCWC), BFAR Director Asis Perez, and other government officials.

BFAR said the design was created by Incat Crowther, a reputable ship designer based in the United States. The vessels will be built at Josefa Slipways, a medium category local shipyard in Navotas City.

“All plans, drawings, and calculations, meanwhile, are in accordance with the rules of the internationally acclaimed Bureau Veritas Classification Society known for its expertise in Testing, Inspection, and Certification (TIC),” BFAR said.

The vessel construction became possible through the collaborative efforts of MARINA, DA-BFAR, Philippine Coast Guard and Philippine Navy.

BFAR is planning to ask the Congress for additional funds in 2017 for four more Multi-mission Offshore Vessels (MMOV). “We will be asking PhP250 million each [for the next four] so we can attain a faster speed geared for rescue operations,” Perez said.

“These vessels are made in the Philippines, made by Filipino, and funded using our own money, the taxpayers’ money,” the BFAR Director added.

http://www.update.ph/2016/01/philippines-starts-building-own-multi-mission-offshore-vessels/2257


----------



## Han Patriot

bobsm said:


> *Taiwan lawmakers and fishermen head to South China Sea’s Taiping Island to declare sovereignty and fishing rights*
> 
> http://www.scmp.com/news/china/dipl...d-fishermen-head-south-china-seas#add-comment



United we stand. Long live the Chinese Republic! Imagine a united Taiwan, Mainland and HK, we can be a real superpower. Technology, money and military, wake up my Taiwan brethren.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## cochine

*New schoolbooks about the Paracel islands*

Update: March, 07/2015 - 12:00
Vietnamese school children are going to start learning more about the country's islands that China is illegally occupying. The history of the islands has been written up in special school books. Some of this history will be about the time of the Nguyen Dynasty. The islands always had a lot to do with the city of Da Nang.


image: http://image.vietnamnews.vn/uploadv...p21a.jpg?url=Storage/Images/2015/3/6/p21a.jpg





By the book: The history of Da Nang and its relationship with the Hoang Sa Archipelago (Paracel Islands) will be introduced into the curricula at secondary and high schools in the central coastal city this year. - File Photo
HA NOI (VNS) — The history of Da Nang and its relationship with the Hoang Sa Archipelago (Paracel Islands) will be introduced into the *curricula* at secondary and high schools in the central coastal city this year, officials have announced.

About 100,000 school textbooks, divided into two volumes, have been printed and will be distributed in the schools.
The textbooks contain detailed information about the city's *seafaring *history as also Viet Nam's *sovereignty* over the islands that are currently illegally occupied by China.

Titled _Lich Su Da Nang_ (Da Nang History), the textbooks also include information on the *illegal placement* of a Chinese oil rig on the islands and *the resulting confrontation*.

Nguyen Minh Hung, deputy director of the Da Nang Department of Education and Training, said the idea for the textbooks was proposed by members of the city legislature, the People's Council, last July.

Hung said that the textbooks would have seven and four lessons *respectively* for secondary school and high school students.

While the secondary school students will gain general knowledge of the city's development history, including how *ancestors *established the nation's sovereignty over the region, high school students will *acquire intensive information* on the Paracel Islands.

They will learn about the historical *evidence* that clearly prove Viet Nam's sovereignty over the islands, like the maps and documents dating back to the rule of the Nguyen Dynasty in the region (1802 - 1884).

The textbooks will focus in particular on the relationship between the Paracel Islands and Da Nang City.

It is important to *compile* such textbooks *to foster the patriotic spirit* among the city's youth, Hung said.

"As citizens of Da Nang, the students must remember and understand the most important historical moments of their hometown; and *reinforce their pride* and belief in the development of the city to promote the values of our ancestors," he said.

Local educators have welcomed the new textbooks.

"It is a very meaningful and practical way to educate the students about Viet Nam's sovereignty over the Paracel Islands. It is even more important as the islands are under Da Nang's administration," said Huynh Dinh Quoc Thien, who heads the city's historians association.

For their part, students are excited.

Twelfth grader Phan Anh Dung from the Ngu Hanh Son High School said: "It would be great to have such textbooks in our curriculum. I think that we students must understand much more than anyone else about the Hoang Sa Islands, which are a part of our hometown."

Da Nang is home to thousands of Vietnamese fishermen, many of whom have been involved in ongoing attempts to defend Viet Nam's sovereignty over the Hoang Sa Archipelago. — VNS

Read more at http://vietnamnews.vn/learning-engl...-the-paracel-islands.html#PE0wmvTBVYCVtzhI.99


----------



## JSCh

* World's deepest underwater sinkhole found in South China Sea*
Source: Xinhua 2016-07-22 19:12:42

SANSHA, Hainan, July 22 (Xinhua) -- Chinese researchers have found the world's deepest underwater sinkhole, or blue hole, at China's Xisha Islands in the South China Sea.

The blue hole is 300.89 meters deep, surpassing the current record of 202 meters, the researchers confirmed Friday.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## cochine

*US guided-missile destroyer in Philippines*

July 22, 2016 PNA Nation 0



The Arleigh Burke-class guided-missile destroyer USS Curtis Wilbur (DDG-54) arrived in Manila on July 20 for a routine port call that highlights the strong historic, community, and military connections between the Philippines and the United States.

During the visit, service members from the American ship will participate in a series of community relations projects and sporting events, while experiencing Filipino culture.

Although some USS Curtis Wilbur sailors will be experiencing the Philippines for the first time, some of its crewmen, such as Senior Chief Gas Turbine System Technician Fitz Dasal, are looking forward to seeing the country again because they are Filipino-American.

“I was born in Bacolod, Philippines, which is south of Manila,” Dasal said.

“My wife and children are all US citizens, but they currently live in Bacolod. I’m very excited and grateful to see them. I’m thankful that the Navy granted me the opportunity to see my loved ones. The Philippines is a great country and I encourage everyone to get out and experience the culture to the fullest,” he added.

The Philippines is a longstanding treaty ally of the United States and became a major non-NATO ally in 2003.

With a partnership spanning more than 70 years, the American and Philippine militaries have worked closely in regional security, counter-terrorism, and combating transnational crime.

USS Curtis Wilbur is on patrol with Carrier Strike Group (CSG) 5 in the US 7th Fleet area of responsibility supporting security and stability in the Indo-Asia-Pacific.

http://www.update.ph/2016/07/us-guided-missile-destroyer-in-philippines/7877


----------



## ahojunk

_Video on Sansha city on Yongxing Island in the Paracels._

--------







* Sansha city’s anniversary: Municipality created to boost China’s maritime rights *




 CCTV News
*
Published on 24 Jul 2016*

In 2014, shortly after the Philippine police detained 11 Chinese fishermen, CCTV’s reporter Han Bin visited one of the released fishermen. The reporter looked into the process of construction of the Sansha city and its unique role in China’s efforts to protect its maritime rights and marine resources. And in the heart of the South China Sea debate, he found out challenges for Sansha, and the changes it has brought to the Chinese fishermen who live there.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ahojunk

_Another video - this one showing the 3 new airports and 5 new lighthouses in Nansha._

--------






*Sansha city’s anniversary: Massive construction projects underway*



CCTV News

*Published on 24 Jul 2016*
Sunday marks the fourth anniversary of the establishment of China's newest city, Sansha. Over the past four years, the region witnessed massive construction projects undertaken by China. The latest achievement is the successful trial flights on the two new airports on Zhubi and Meiji reefs, two of China's southernmost reefs in the South China Sea. Earlier, CCTV’s reporter Han Peng shared with us how the reefs have transformed.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## TaiShang

ahojunk said:


> _Another video - this one showing the 3 new airports and 5 new lighthouses in Nansha._
> 
> --------
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Sansha city’s anniversary: Massive construction projects underway*
> 
> 
> 
> CCTV News
> 
> *Published on 24 Jul 2016*
> Sunday marks the fourth anniversary of the establishment of China's newest city, Sansha. Over the past four years, the region witnessed massive construction projects undertaken by China. The latest achievement is the successful trial flights on the two new airports on Zhubi and Meiji reefs, two of China's southernmost reefs in the South China Sea. Earlier, CCTV’s reporter Han Peng shared with us how the reefs have transformed.



Progress is unstoppable. Those who deny it only deny for themselves since the ground reality stands. 

Reactionarism is a religion and a false one. Hopefully, US and its little weak allies will be inflicted with this conditions for many more decades to come. 

Until the Mandate of Heavens is complete.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## ahojunk

_The Japanese should just butt out of this._

--------
China tells Japan don't intervene in South China Sea
Source: Xinhua | 2016-07-24 18:54:17 | Editor: huaxia

BEIJING, July 24 (Xinhua)-- China on Sunday urged Japan not to intervene in the South China Sea issue as Japan is not directly concerned in any disputes there.

Japanese foreign minister Fumio Kishida said he would talk about the issue if he has a chance to meet with his Chinese counterpart Wang Yi during the series of foreign ministers' meeting involving ASEAN and other Asian countries.

Stressing that the South China Sea arbitration is "illegal and invalid" from very beginning to end, Foreign Ministry spokesperson Lu Kang said China's rejection of the award is indeed in accordance with the international law and the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea.

"Japan is not a party to the South China Sea issue, and *considering its shameful history, it has no rights whatsoever to accuse China on the matter*," he said.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## ahojunk

_Now comes the money to protect the environment._

--------
Monday, July 25, 2016, 15:08
China's Sansha launches maritime ecological protection fund
By Xinhua





_*Aerial view of Sansha city in the Paracel chain. July 27, 2012. (Photo / AFP)*
_

SANSHA - China's Sansha city has decided to allocate 5 million yuan (about US$748,000) annually for maritime environmental conservation in the next three years.

A first round of special environmental funding worth one million yuan was earmarked Saturday for exploration of the newly confirmed world's deepest underwater sinkhole, or blue hole, in the Xisha Islands. The blue hole in Yongle, a major coral reef, is 300.89 meters deep. It is known as Longdong, or "Dragon Hole."

The funds will be used to support scientific research and development of new methods and equipment in environmental protection, said Shi Guoning, a senior official of the land resources and environmental protection bureau of Sansha City.

Over the past four years, Sansha city has invested more than 30 million yuan in treatment and restoration of reefs and islets, according to the bureau.

The city has organized breeding and release of fish and sea turtles into the sea six times and cracked down on illegal capture of seabirds, according to Xu Zhifei, vice mayor of Sansha.

Sansha City was officially established in 2012 to administer the Xisha, Zhongsha and Nansha island groups and their surrounding waters in the South China Sea.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## cochine

Last update 08:40 | 03/07/2016
 


*China tells untruths about East Sea dispute*
_VietNamNet Bridge – China’s announcement of winning support from 60 countries in the East Sea (internationally known as the South China Sea) dispute has attracted the special attention of the international community. But then, the truth was revealed: China did not tell the truth._


_



_

_China illegally builds artificial islands in the East Sea._


In a few more days, the Permanent Court of Arbitration (PCA) based in The Hague (Netherlands) will make a decision on the case of the Philippines against China concerning the regulation of entities in the East Sea.

The PCA will not decide on the ownership of these entities, but only the maritime rights for these entities. In addition to the legal impact of this decision, which is considered a cornerstone in the evolution of the East Sea disputes, the case is expected to favor Manila on almost every aspect and affect the prestige of China.

Right from the start, Beijing spent a lot of money to persuade, intimidate and entice countries inside and outside the region to support the view of China in the East Sea. They loudly said there was no need for an international organization to intervene in the dispute and the dispute should be resolved on the basis of bilateral negotiations.

It was not surprising as this bilateral approach is beneficial for China, which has a louder voice than the smaller and weaker claimants (like the Philippines).

However, many times China was exposed to fabricate evidence and tell lies; for example, the recent statement on who supports their views concerning the East Sea dispute.

In many cases, this country provided only general information after diplomatic meetings, saying that the countries they had met expressed support for China’s views in the East Sea, but failed to quote the words of any senior official.

A final ruling is expected soon from a tribunal at the Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague hearing Manila’s case against Beijing’s claims in the East Sea. How many countries recognize the decision as legally binding on both parties and call for it to be respected will determine its ultimate value, as international pressure is the court’s only enforcement mechanism.

In an effort to deflect that pressure, Chinese officials and state media have been trumpeting the number of countries that have voiced support for Beijing’s position that the tribunal lacks jurisdiction in the case and the ruling is therefore invalid.

In a recent press conference, when reporters asked how many countries supported the view of China, the spokesman of Chinese Foreign Ministry said 60, the number that a journalist had mentioned in a previous question. However, China cannot name these countries.

The Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative (AMTI), under the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS), has recently published the results of a study to help clarify this.

AMTI has scoured publicly availableofficial statements in an effort to determine the real positions taken by countries. It has identified 60 countries that appear to be included in China’s list of supporters.

Of those, 8 have publicly confirmed their support, 4 have denied Beijing’s claim of support, and 48 have remained publicly silent or have issued statements that are considerably vaguer than indicated by China.

In contrast, 40 countries have voiced support for the arbitration proceedings, said the award will be legally binding, and/or called on China and the Philippines to respect it.

Support for China’s position is defined here as an explicit public statement that 1) the arbitral tribunal lacks jurisdiction or legitimacy; 2) the right of states to choose their own method of dispute resolution should be respected (and therefore compulsory dispute mechanisms such as the tribunal are invalid); or 3) the right of states to exempt certain types of disputes from compulsory settlement as provided for by article 298 of the UNCLOS should be respected (which China claims invalidates the arbitral proceedings because they actually touch upon boundary delimitation, from which it has exempted itself).

These are the main reasons that China will be concerned at the cost of credibility following the ruling of the PCA. Until now, only a few days before the trial, Beijing has still not received a public statement in favor.

http://english.vietnamnet.vn/fms/ma...na-tells-untruths-about-east-sea-dispute.html


----------



## ahojunk

*Taiwan fishermen excited to set foot on Taiping Island*
2016/07/26 11:59:45

Taipei, July 26 (CNA) Ten crew members of three Taiwanese fishing boats set foot in the port of Taiping Island in the South China Sea on Tuesday, expressing their excitement at finally seeing the island up close.

The fishing boats left Pingtung County on July 20 for the Taiwan-held island to highlight Taiwan's sovereignty there and that it is in fact an "island" under international law after an international tribunal ruled on July 12 that it was not.

The boats docked at the port Monday night, and after requesting permission from the commander of Taiping Island, the fishermen were allowed access to the island's port area on Tuesday.

But they were forbidden from entering the island itself as it is a restricted military base, said Captain Chen Fu-sheng (陳富盛) of the Pingtung-based Man Sheng Chi No. 8, one of the three boats that reached the island.

"Since we have come to Taiping Island, we feel like we should set foot on its land, or we will have regrets," Chen told CNA in a telephone interview.

"I saw the stone stele that former president Ma Ying-jeou (馬英九) took a photo with. There are also coconut and papaya trees on the island," Chen said.

Chen said he believed Taiping Island is an island because there are trees, fresh water and chickens and cows on the island.

He said his crew has filled up bottles of fresh water and plan to bring them back to Taiwan "to give each reporter (unable to come along) a bottle."

The three fishing boats departed for Taiwan at about 11 a.m. after being replenished with 21 canisters of fresh water two cartons of canned pork and beef.

No Taiwan reporters were allowed to cover the journey. A crew from the Hong Kong-based Phoenix TV managed to go with a fourth fishing boat but the it was not allowed to dock and set anchor instead in waters off the island.

During their brief stay, two of the fishermen who landed on the island were sent to a medical station in the port to be treated for toothache and skin infection. They returned to their boats after being treated.

The flotilla of four fishing boats embarked on the journey July 20.

The fishermen's trip was taken in response to a July 12 ruling by the Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague.

In a case brought by the Philippines against China, the court said all high-tide features in the Spratly Islands, including Itu Aba (Taiping Island), are legally "rocks" rather than islands and therefore not entitled to 200-nautical-mile exclusive economic zones.

Without a 200-nautical-mile economic zone, Taiwanese fishermen could end up having a much smaller area in the South China Sea in which to operate. 

(By Kuo Chih-hsuan and Christie Chen)

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## ahojunk

Lawmakers visit Taiping Island to reaffirm ROC sovereignty

Publication Date: July 20, 2016
Source:Taiwan Today





_Legislators pose in southern Taiwan’s Pingtung Airport July 20 as they prepare to depart for Taiping Island in the South China Sea to reaffirm the Republic of China’s (Taiwan) sovereignty in the region. (CNA)_


Legislators from the Foreign Affairs and National Defense Committee and the Internal Administration Committee of the Legislative Yuan, the nation’s highest lawmaking body, visited Taiping Island in the Nansha (Spratly) Islands July 20 to reassert the Republic of China’s (Taiwan) sovereignty following the recent release of an award rendered by the Permanent Court of Arbitration in the Philippines-initiated South China Sea Arbitration.

Lawmakers Chen Ting-fei, Lo Chih-cheng, Tsai Shih-ying and Wang Ting-yu of the ruling Democratic Progressive Party, as well as Chiang Chi-chen, Hsu Chih-jung, Huang Chao-shun and Lu Yu-ling from the main opposition Kuomintang, flew from southern Taiwan’s Pingtung Airport to Taiping Island on a military transport aircraft.

During a roughly two-hour visit, the legislators inspected a number of facilities on the island, including its satellite and solar power equipment and weather station. “Taiping Island is absolutely not a rock, as described by the arbitral tribunal, and is in fact an island,” said the KMT’s Chiang, who led the team of lawmakers. “The ROC has administered Taiping Island for seven decades and has continuously worked to improve the facilities on the island, which is fully capable of sustaining human life.”

DPP lawmaker Wang praised the high quality of local agricultural produce after sampling coconut milk from fruit grown on Taiping Island. He also lauded the dedication of personnel stationed there, adding “there can be no question that Taiping Island is an inherent part of the ROC’s sovereign territory.”

Comprising numerous decisions, the July 12 award classified Taiping Island as a rock and not an island. This would call into question the ROC’s rightful claim to a 200-nautical-mile exclusive economic zone around Taiping Island.

The award has produced strong reactions in Taiwan. The Office of the President, Executive Yuan and several ministries issued statements following the announcement of the award reaffirming the ROC is entitled to all rights over the South China Sea islands and their surrounding waters in accordance with international law and the U.N. Convention on the Law of the Sea. These statements have generated widespread international media coverage.

On July 13, President Tsai Ing-wen ordered ROC navy Kangding-class frigate Dihua to depart 24 hours early on a regular patrol of the South China Sea, and three days later the Coast Guard Administration dispatched a 1,000-ton cutter to the region on a mission of undetermined duration.

The Legislative Yuan issued a statement July 15 jointly drafted by the caucuses of the DPP, KMT, New Power Party and People First Party rejecting the PCA award and announcing that Taiwan remains committed to the ongoing development and administration of Taiping Island across the areas of academic research, environmental protection, infrastructure development, natural resources exploration, security, tourism, and transportation and communications.

Taiping Island, with an area of 0.51 square kilometers, is the largest naturally formed island in the Nansha (Spratly) Islands. It can sustain human habitation and an economic life of its own, and meets the criteria of an island as defined in Article 121 of UNCLOS. As such, the ROC enjoys full rights associated with territorial waters, a contiguous zone, an exclusive economic zone and a continental shelf in accordance with UNCLOS. (KTJ-CM)

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## TaiShang

ahojunk said:


> *Taiwan fishermen excited to set foot on Taiping Island*
> 2016/07/26 11:59:45
> 
> Taipei, July 26 (CNA) Ten crew members of three Taiwanese fishing boats set foot in the port of Taiping Island in the South China Sea on Tuesday, expressing their excitement at finally seeing the island up close.
> 
> The fishing boats left Pingtung County on July 20 for the Taiwan-held island to highlight Taiwan's sovereignty there and that it is in fact an "island" under international law after an international tribunal ruled on July 12 that it was not.
> 
> The boats docked at the port Monday night, and after requesting permission from the commander of Taiping Island, the fishermen were allowed access to the island's port area on Tuesday.
> 
> But they were forbidden from entering the island itself as it is a restricted military base, said Captain Chen Fu-sheng (陳富盛) of the Pingtung-based Man Sheng Chi No. 8, one of the three boats that reached the island.
> 
> "Since we have come to Taiping Island, we feel like we should set foot on its land, or we will have regrets," Chen told CNA in a telephone interview.
> 
> "I saw the stone stele that former president Ma Ying-jeou (馬英九) took a photo with. There are also coconut and papaya trees on the island," Chen said.
> 
> Chen said he believed Taiping Island is an island because there are trees, fresh water and chickens and cows on the island.
> 
> He said his crew has filled up bottles of fresh water and plan to bring them back to Taiwan "to give each reporter (unable to come along) a bottle."
> 
> The three fishing boats departed for Taiwan at about 11 a.m. after being replenished with 21 canisters of fresh water two cartons of canned pork and beef.
> 
> No Taiwan reporters were allowed to cover the journey. A crew from the Hong Kong-based Phoenix TV managed to go with a fourth fishing boat but the it was not allowed to dock and set anchor instead in waters off the island.
> 
> During their brief stay, two of the fishermen who landed on the island were sent to a medical station in the port to be treated for toothache and skin infection. They returned to their boats after being treated.
> 
> The flotilla of four fishing boats embarked on the journey July 20.
> 
> The fishermen's trip was taken in response to a July 12 ruling by the Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague.
> 
> In a case brought by the Philippines against China, the court said all high-tide features in the Spratly Islands, including Itu Aba (Taiping Island), are legally "rocks" rather than islands and therefore not entitled to 200-nautical-mile exclusive economic zones.
> 
> Without a 200-nautical-mile economic zone, Taiwanese fishermen could end up having a much smaller area in the South China Sea in which to operate.
> 
> (By Kuo Chih-hsuan and Christie Chen)





ahojunk said:


> Lawmakers visit Taiping Island to reaffirm ROC sovereignty
> 
> Publication Date: July 20, 2016
> Source:Taiwan Today
> 
> 
> View attachment 320722
> _Legislators pose in southern Taiwan’s Pingtung Airport July 20 as they prepare to depart for Taiping Island in the South China Sea to reaffirm the Republic of China’s (Taiwan) sovereignty in the region. (CNA)_
> 
> 
> Legislators from the Foreign Affairs and National Defense Committee and the Internal Administration Committee of the Legislative Yuan, the nation’s highest lawmaking body, visited Taiping Island in the Nansha (Spratly) Islands July 20 to reassert the Republic of China’s (Taiwan) sovereignty following the recent release of an award rendered by the Permanent Court of Arbitration in the Philippines-initiated South China Sea Arbitration.
> 
> Lawmakers Chen Ting-fei, Lo Chih-cheng, Tsai Shih-ying and Wang Ting-yu of the ruling Democratic Progressive Party, as well as Chiang Chi-chen, Hsu Chih-jung, Huang Chao-shun and Lu Yu-ling from the main opposition Kuomintang, flew from southern Taiwan’s Pingtung Airport to Taiping Island on a military transport aircraft.
> 
> During a roughly two-hour visit, the legislators inspected a number of facilities on the island, including its satellite and solar power equipment and weather station. “Taiping Island is absolutely not a rock, as described by the arbitral tribunal, and is in fact an island,” said the KMT’s Chiang, who led the team of lawmakers. “The ROC has administered Taiping Island for seven decades and has continuously worked to improve the facilities on the island, which is fully capable of sustaining human life.”
> 
> DPP lawmaker Wang praised the high quality of local agricultural produce after sampling coconut milk from fruit grown on Taiping Island. He also lauded the dedication of personnel stationed there, adding “there can be no question that Taiping Island is an inherent part of the ROC’s sovereign territory.”
> 
> Comprising numerous decisions, the July 12 award classified Taiping Island as a rock and not an island. This would call into question the ROC’s rightful claim to a 200-nautical-mile exclusive economic zone around Taiping Island.
> 
> The award has produced strong reactions in Taiwan. The Office of the President, Executive Yuan and several ministries issued statements following the announcement of the award reaffirming the ROC is entitled to all rights over the South China Sea islands and their surrounding waters in accordance with international law and the U.N. Convention on the Law of the Sea. These statements have generated widespread international media coverage.
> 
> On July 13, President Tsai Ing-wen ordered ROC navy Kangding-class frigate Dihua to depart 24 hours early on a regular patrol of the South China Sea, and three days later the Coast Guard Administration dispatched a 1,000-ton cutter to the region on a mission of undetermined duration.
> 
> The Legislative Yuan issued a statement July 15 jointly drafted by the caucuses of the DPP, KMT, New Power Party and People First Party rejecting the PCA award and announcing that Taiwan remains committed to the ongoing development and administration of Taiping Island across the areas of academic research, environmental protection, infrastructure development, natural resources exploration, security, tourism, and transportation and communications.
> 
> Taiping Island, with an area of 0.51 square kilometers, is the largest naturally formed island in the Nansha (Spratly) Islands. It can sustain human habitation and an economic life of its own, and meets the criteria of an island as defined in Article 121 of UNCLOS. As such, the ROC enjoys full rights associated with territorial waters, a contiguous zone, an exclusive economic zone and a continental shelf in accordance with UNCLOS. (KTJ-CM)



By denying Taiping island status, the kangaroo court has shown that it is not an ignorant court, by a paid off and bought off one. 

An ignorant decision would have made them look better.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## JSCh

Thursday, July 28, 2016, 17:10
*China, Russia navies to hold drills in S. China Sea*
By Agencies



This photo taken on May 5, 2016 shows crew members of China's South Sea Fleet taking part in a drill in the Xisha Islandsin the South China Sea. (STR/AFP)

BEIJING - China and Russia will hold routine naval exercises in the South China Sea in September, China said on Thursday, adding that the drills were aimed at strengthening their cooperation and were not aimed at any other country.

"This is a routine exercise between the two armed forces, aimed at strengthening the developing China-Russia strategic cooperative partnership," China's defense ministry spokesman Yang Yujun told a news conference.

"The exercise is not directed against third parties."

China and Russia are veto-wielding members of the UN Security Council, and have held similar views on many major issues such as the crisis in Syria, putting them at odds with the United States and Western Europe.

Last year, they held joint military drills in the Sea of Japan and the Mediterranean.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## ahojunk

China urges Japan, U.S.,Australia to do right things for peace in Asia-Pacific
Source: Xinhua | 2016-07-28 01:11:24 | Editor: huaxia

BEIJING, July 27 (Xinhua) -- China on Wednesday urged Japan, the United States and Australia to view and deal with the South China Sea issue in a right attitude.

None of the three nations are directly-concerned parties to the issue, said Foreign Ministry spokesperson Lu Kang in response to question on a trilateral statement issued by the three countries on Monday evening, which touched upon the South China Sea situation.

Lu said China urges relevant countries to respect the efforts of the directly-concerned parties to safeguard peace and stability in the South China Sea, and do right things to serve peace, stability and prosperity in the Asia-Pacific region.

China and members of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) have already set rules in the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea (DOC), he said.

During the foreign ministers' meeting between China and ASEAN nations (10+1), China and the ASEAN nations issued a joint statement on full and effective implementation of the DOC, which reiterates that disputes should be resolved peacefully through negotiation between the parties directly concerned, said Lu.

Japan, the U.S. and Australia have been citing international laws for some time, but in fact they have been adopting a double standard towards international laws, which they adopt only when the international laws fit their needs, said the spokesperson.

Lu reaffirmed China's non-acceptance of the illegal and void award issued by the Arbitral Tribunal in the South China Sea arbitration established at the unilateral request of the Philippines.

The award given by the Arbitral Tribunal is beyond the scope of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) and has gravely violated the international law and the general practice of international arbitration, and it does not stand for the international law, he said.

China firmly opposes any proposition and action based on the award, Lu stressed.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Han Patriot

JSCh said:


> Thursday, July 28, 2016, 17:10
> *China, Russia navies to hold drills in S. China Sea*
> By Agencies
> 
> 
> This photo taken on May 5, 2016 shows crew members of China's South Sea Fleet taking part in a drill in the Xisha Islandsin the South China Sea. (STR/AFP)
> 
> BEIJING - China and Russia will hold routine naval exercises in the South China Sea in September, China said on Thursday, adding that the drills were aimed at strengthening their cooperation and were not aimed at any other country.
> 
> "This is a routine exercise between the two armed forces, aimed at strengthening the developing China-Russia strategic cooperative partnership," China's defense ministry spokesman Yang Yujun told a news conference.
> 
> "The exercise is not directed against third parties."
> 
> China and Russia are veto-wielding members of the UN Security Council, and have held similar views on many major issues such as the crisis in Syria, putting them at odds with the United States and Western Europe.
> 
> Last year, they held joint military drills in the Sea of Japan and the Mediterranean.


Hmm...things are getting interesting. Basically if China grabs Viet n Pinoy island. America would get involved and Russia will also join in. WW3? You think the US would risk this for over some 'rocks'?

We need those 3 battlegroups damn it! We can make almost the whole ships domestically, only left aircraft engines, nuclear propulsion n emals

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cochine

*Vietnam slams Taiwanese officials' visit to Spratly Island*

July 28, 2016 | 05:35 pm GMT+7

*'All activities in these areas without Vietnam's consent are deemed illegal.'*

Vietnam has issued a stern response to the recent trip made by Taiwanese officials to Ba Binh Island in the Spratlys, an island chain in the South China Sea, which Hanoi calls the East Sea.

Vietnam, Taiwan, China, Malaysia, the Philippines and Brunei have overlapping claims to the Spratly Island.

The fact that some Taiwanese officials have visited Ba Binh Island, known internationally as Itu Aba, has seriously violated Vietnam’s territorial sovereignty over the Spratlys, Le Hai Binh, Vietnam’s foreign ministry spokesman, said in a statement Thursday.

“Vietnam affirms its indisputable sovereignty over Truong Sa (the Spratlys) and Hoang Sa (the Paracels). All activities in these areas without Vietnam's consent are deemed illegal,” Binh said.

“Vietnam resolutely opposes [the activity] and urges Taiwan not to commit similar violations to help maintain peace and stability in the East Sea,” Binh continued, adding that Hanoi believes that such moves would escalate tensions in the region.

The Taiwanese visit took place at a time of simmering tension in the flashpoint waters after an international court in the Hague on July 12 rejected China's sweeping claims to large swaths of the South China Sea.

Neither China nor Taiwan has accepted the ruling. Taiwan has said that the decision on Itu Aba, its sole holding in the Spratlys, "seriously impaired" its territorial rights.


----------



## TaiShang

kecho said:


> *Vietnam slams Taiwanese officials' visit to Spratly Island*
> 
> July 28, 2016 | 05:35 pm GMT+7
> 
> *'All activities in these areas without Vietnam's consent are deemed illegal.'*
> 
> Vietnam has issued a stern response to the recent trip made by Taiwanese officials to Ba Binh Island in the Spratlys, an island chain in the South China Sea, which Hanoi calls the East Sea.
> 
> Vietnam, Taiwan, China, Malaysia, the Philippines and Brunei have overlapping claims to the Spratly Island.
> 
> The fact that some Taiwanese officials have visited Ba Binh Island, known internationally as Itu Aba, has seriously violated Vietnam’s territorial sovereignty over the Spratlys, Le Hai Binh, Vietnam’s foreign ministry spokesman, said in a statement Thursday.
> 
> “Vietnam affirms its indisputable sovereignty over Truong Sa (the Spratlys) and Hoang Sa (the Paracels). All activities in these areas without Vietnam's consent are deemed illegal,” Binh said.
> 
> “Vietnam resolutely opposes [the activity] and urges Taiwan not to commit similar violations to help maintain peace and stability in the East Sea,” Binh continued, adding that Hanoi believes that such moves would escalate tensions in the region.
> 
> The Taiwanese visit took place at a time of simmering tension in the flashpoint waters after an international court in the Hague on July 12 rejected China's sweeping claims to large swaths of the South China Sea.
> 
> Neither China nor Taiwan has accepted the ruling. Taiwan has said that the decision on Itu Aba, its sole holding in the Spratlys, "seriously impaired" its territorial rights.



Well, warships are on the way. Stop them if you got the guts.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Han Patriot

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/featu...r-nations-could-lose-exclusive-economic-zones

These Japanese and American hypocrites.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cochine

TaiShang said:


> Well, warships are on the way. Stop them if you got the guts.



without China mainland PLAN threats, we can take back Itu Aba very soon.


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

China's response to the ruling in a nutshell:


----------



## T.K

At any time, the Chinese people will be kind to our friends and we are willing to share our success with our friends, such as Pakistan.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ahojunk

China's response to the kangaroo court ruling is short and sweet:-

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## TaiShang

kecho said:


> without China mainland PLAN threats, we can take back Itu Aba very soon.



Even in theory, I do not think so. There would be protracted conflict and lots of blood shed on both side - if no one else intervened.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cochine

*Argentina-VN institute backs tribunal’s East Sea-related verdict
*
_The Argentina-Vietnam Cultural Institute (ICAV) on July 27 issued a statement in support of the recent ruling by the Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague, the Netherlands, related to territorial disputes in the East Sea._

_



_

_Image taken by US aircraft shows that China has continue its reclamation activities in the East Sea (Source: WSJ)_

The statement declared that the ruling has created a firm legal foundation for nations involved in disputes on sovereignty in the sea, and guaranteed the principles of the Convention on the Law of the Sea 1982 (UNCLOS).

It also stressed that the verdict has legal validity to all the parties involved.

Through the statement, the ICAV asked the countries involved to comply with the ruling and protect peace in accordance with international law.

It protested all actions that cause tensions in the East Sea such as increasing military personnel and equipment presence, building artificial islands, and hindering the legitimate rights of fishermen and maritime freedom.

On July 12, the Permanent Court of Arbitration (PCA) in The Hague, the Netherlands, issued its ruling on a case brought by the Philippines against China’s nine-dash line claim in the East Sea, saying China’s claims to historic rights for waters within the nine-dash line are contrary to the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea.

The tribunal also found no legal basis for China to claim historic rights to resources within the nine-dash line.

The country has no historic title over waters of the East Sea. At the same time, China has caused permanent and irreparable harm to the coral reef ecosystem at Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelago, the court said.

_VNA_


----------



## ahojunk

Ha ha ha. What will China do with the ruling?
The answer below.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Han Patriot

ahojunk said:


> Ha ha ha. What will China do with the ruling?
> The answer below.
> 
> View attachment 321895


I had always reminded the Viets that this is a game between superpowers and those in the middle are just pawns. Nobody knows the behind the scenes deal China makes with US on dividing their sphere.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## cochine

Han Patriot said:


> I had always reminded the Viets that this is a game between superpowers and those in the middle are just pawns. Nobody knows the behind the scenes deal China makes with US on dividing their sphere.



same comedia what china did with USA in Vietnam war in 1968-1975.



ahojunk said:


> Ha ha ha. What will China do with the ruling?
> The answer below.
> 
> View attachment 321895



Its china dream.

*Philippines says omission of arbitration ruling in ASEAN statement not victory for China*
By Reuters July 27, 2016 | 10:51 am GMT+7





China's Foreign Minister Wang Yi speaks to media at the sidelines of the ASEAN foreign ministers meeting in Vientiane, Laos July 26, 2016. Photo by Reuters/Jorge Silva
*'The Arbitral award is a matter between China and the Philippines.' *
The Philippines "vigorously pushed" for the inclusion of a arbitration ruling in an ASEAN statement but the grouping's decision not to mention it was not a victory for China, Manila's foreign minister said on Wednesday.

The issuance of a joint communique by the Association of Southeast Asian Nations, however, was a victory for the grouping, which the Philippines had never asked for support on its arbitration case, Foreign Secretary Perfecto Yasay said.

"I am just saying this to dispel the reports that have been said that China came out victorious in the ASEAN meeting because we precisely agreed to not mentioning the arbitral award," Yasay told a news conference.

"The Arbitral award is a matter between China and the Philippines."





Philippine Foreign Secretary Perfecto Yasay leaves a meeting of the ASEAN foreign ministers meeting in Vientiane, Laos July 26, 2016. Photo by Reuters/Jorge Silva

*Kerry to meet Philippines' Duterte on cooperation, China talks*

U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry meets Philippine's President Rodrigo Duterte in Manila on Wednesday to discuss his new government's priorities as well as possible dialogue with China on resolving tensions over the South China Sea.

Kerry is the highest-ranking U.S. official to visit the Philippines since Duterte's election victory in May and follows a meeting of foreign ministers from Southeast Asian nations in Laos this week.

"We are going to hear about (Duterte's) priorities, we're going to get to know him," a U.S. official said ahead of the meeting. "We're going to discuss how we can work together and where we want to focus."

Duterte will host Kerry at the presidential palace for a working lunch, a gesture the U.S. official called "unprecedented and a signal of the importance the new president places on the relationship and the alliance" with the United States.

Kerry said on Tuesday he supported the resumption of talks between China and the Philippines over the South China Sea following an international court ruling against Beijing over the dispute earlier this month.

China has refused to accept the July 12 ruling by the Permanent Court of Arbitration, based in The Hague, in which Manila won an emphatic legal victory.

During the meeting in Vientiane, China's Foreign Minister Wang Yi asked Kerry to lend his support for bilateral talks to restart between Manila and Beijing.





U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry (R) and Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi hold a joint news conference after their meeting at the State Department in Washington, February 23, 2016. Photo by Reuters/Yuri Gripas/File Photo 

"I expect the conversation to include more exploration on the question of what a constructive, positive and peaceful and lawful path forward looks like," the U.S. official said, adding that the Philippines had behaved with restraint since the court ruling.

The official said Kerry would also raise U.S. concerns over "an unhappy history" in the Philippines of extra-judicial killings and violence against journalists.

"We hope to learn more from President Duterte about his thinking in connection with protecting human rights, civil rights, and maintaining the rule of law in law enforcement," the official added.

Duterte's incendiary rhetoric and advocacy of extrajudicial killings to stamp out crime has prompted alarm among the international community, including in the United States.

Increased military cooperation between the two countries could also come up during the meeting, the official said.

The Philippines is one of the oldest U.S. allies in Asia, and hosted permanent U.S. military bases until 1992. That deal ended after Philippine lawmakers voted to evict U.S. troops in 1991.

However, U.S. Defense Secretary Ash Carter recently announced that U.S. troops and military equipment would be sent on regular rotations in the Philippines and that the two countries had started joint patrols in the South China Sea.


----------



## ahojunk

China's supreme court clarifies maritime jurisdiction
Source: Xinhua | 2016-08-02 11:31:53 | Editor: huaxia


BEIJING, Aug. 2 (Xinhua) -- The Supreme People's Court (SPC) on Tuesday issued a regulation on judicial interpretation to clarify China's jurisdiction over its territorial seas.

The explanation provides a clear legal basis for China to protect the maritime order, marine safety and interests, and to exercise integrated management over the country's jurisdictional seas, said an SPC statement.

The regulation, which takes effect Tuesday, states that Chinese citizens or foreigners will be pursued for criminal liability if they engage in illegal hunting or fishing, or killing endangered wildlife in China's jurisdictional seas.

"Judicial power is an important component of national sovereignty," said the statement, adding, "People's courts will actively exercise jurisdiction over China's territorial waters, support administrative departments to legally perform maritime management duties, equally protect the legal rights of Chinese and foreign parties involved and safeguard Chinese territorial sovereignty and maritime interests."

The judicial explanation, based on Chinese law, the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea and judicial practices, further clarifies China's maritime jurisdiction, the statement said.

According to the regulation, jurisdictional seas not only include inland waters and territorial seas, but also cover regions including contiguous zones, exclusive economic zones and continental shelves.

The regulation also addresses Chinese citizens or organizations engaged in fishing in fishing zones or the open sea under co-management between China and other countries, according to signed agreements.

The interpretation specifies the standard of conviction and punishment for illegal marine fishing: those who illegally enter Chinese territorial waters and refuse to leave after being driven away, or who re-enter after being driven away or being fined in the past year, will be considered to have committed "serious" criminal acts and will be fined and sentenced to less than a year of imprisonment, detention or surveillance.

This penalty also applies to those who illegally enter China's territorial seas to fish but do not engage in "illegal fishing" under the law, it said.

"The explanation offers legal guarantees for marine fishing law enforcement," defining punishments for fishing without a license in order to encourage legal fishing, said the statement, adding that it also promotes judicial assistance and international cooperation on marine affairs.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cochine

*US President’s interview on Hague’s tribunal ruling over East Sea (Bien Dong in Vietnamese)
*
_US President Barack Obama has acknowledged that the Philippines made a lawful and peaceful effort to resolve their maritime dispute with China using The Hague tribunal._

The President made the statement during an interview with Singapore’s Strait Times newspaper on August 1. It was the first time the President had given an interview to press on the East Sea issue after the court’s July 12 decision.

He said the tribunal’s ruling delivered a clear and legally binding decision on maritime claims in the East Sea as they relate to China and the Philippines and that ruling should be respected.

According to the President, the US is committed to respecting international law and its participation in Asia does not target any particular nation. 

He said the US will continue to urge China and other claimants to work to peacefully resolve disagreements in the waters.

The President said that the US believes every nation should respect international law, including the East Sea. 

Respecting international law is in the interests of the US, China and the rest of the world to make sure that the rules of the road are upheld. The rules and norms are part of the foundation of regional stability, and they have allowed nations across the region, including China, to grow and prosper, he added.

_VNA_


----------



## Han Patriot

kecho said:


> same comedia what china did with USA in Vietnam war in 1968-1975.
> 
> 
> 
> Its china dream.



We did invade into Vietnam and took some islands and sank some ships. But Viet hide like monkeys, nowdays, there is no more hiding in the forest. It's gonna be a fast sharp attack in the sea with air power and navy.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cochine

Han Patriot said:


> We did invade into Vietnam and took some islands and sank some ships. But Viet hide like monkeys, nowdays, there is no more hiding in the forest. It's gonna be a fast sharp attack in the sea with air power and navy.



China kneed before USA in cold war from 1968,... 1972....

*Philippines: Hague’s verdict will be “ground” for talks with China
*
_Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte has affirmed that the July 12 ruling of the Permanent Court of Arbitration based in The Hague, the Netherlands on the case between his country and China in the East Sea will be a “ground” for future talks between Manila and Beijing over territorial disputes. _

Presidential spokesperson Ernesto Abella said the statement came in a meeting between President Duterte and US Secretary of State John Kerry in Manila, during which, the two sides discussed the East Sea among other issues of mutual concern.

Speaking with the press after the meeting, Kerry asserted that the US does not stand with any particular party in the East Sea dispute, however, it will have obvious viewpoints in safeguarding rights to freedom and legal use of aerial and water areas stipulated in international law. 

The American diplomat said Washington hopes disputes will be solved peacefully through diplomatic ways, without coercion and threat to use force. 

On the same day, President Duterte convened a National Security C ouncil session with the participation of four former presidents, including Fidel Ramos, Joseph Estrada, Gloria Arroyo and Benigno Aquino III, to discuss the government’s strategies in future talks with China to solve East Sea disputes and other security matters.

_VNA_


----------



## CCP

kecho said:


> China kneed before USA in cold war from 1968,... 1972....



Richard Nixon's 1972 trip to China 





Watch from 1:52 , who were on their knees?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cochine

CCP said:


> Richard Nixon's 1972 trip to China
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Watch from 1:52 , who were on their knees?



when USA is no more paper tiger, and became friend of China, China begged this tiger to visit her house.


----------



## CCP

kecho said:


> when USA is no more paper tiger, and became friend of China, China begged this tiger to visit her house.



Ok, may be in your country, beggers are waiting detonator to visit their place.
There is the other way around in the rest of the world.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cochine

CCP said:


> Ok, may be in your country, beggers are waiting detonator to visit their place.
> There is the other way around in the rest of the world.



yes, likes this.


----------



## CCP

kecho said:


> yes, likes this.



Well, that is just the timing of this picture.
If you have the video of that moment you will see the true story.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Han Patriot

kecho said:


> yes, likes this.


It was the US who came to visit and initiate the first alliance, thanks to our llink in Pakistan.

Both of them were lowering their heads, but Deng was shorter. Are you serious? You use this as evidence we submit to the US? The fact remains, the US initiated the first alliance to counter USSR, after USSR collapsed, they turned their back on China. And Vietnam was the first action in this alliance, we were supporting Vietnam, until it became a crazy dog trying to destabilize SEA. It proved one thing, when we kicked Viet ***, the Russians just kept quiet. The aim of the war had always been to taunt Russia, there was never an intention to colonize Vietnam.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## ahojunk

China launches website on South China Sea issue
2016-08-03 13:36:15 CRIENGLISH.com Web Editor: Guan Chao





_The launch ceremony for southchinasea.org is held in Beijing, on July 18, 2016. [Photo: haiwainet.cn]_

A website called "thesouthchinasea.org" was recently launched in Beijing.

The launch was timely coming shortly after the ruling on the "arbitration" initiated by the former government of the Philippines.

The online portal aims to support China's stance on South China Sea issues and provide factual information to the public.

It will feature updates on expert opinions and historical facts on the South China Sea issue, in addition to listing the latest feeds on tourism and development in the area.

--------
Screenshot of the website:-

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## cochine

Han Patriot said:


> It was the US who came to visit and initiate the first alliance, thanks to our llink in Pakistan.
> 
> Both of them were lowering their heads, but Deng was shorter. Are you serious? You use this as evidence we submit to the US? The fact remains, the US initiated the first alliance to counter USSR, after USSR collapsed, they turned their back on China. And Vietnam was the first action in this alliance, we were supporting Vietnam, until it became a crazy dog trying to destabilize SEA. It proved one thing, when we kicked Viet ***, the Russians just kept quiet. The aim of the war had always been to taunt Russia, there was never an intention to colonize Vietnam.


----------



## CCP

kecho said:


>

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Han Patriot

kecho said:


>


Whats wrong with the pic?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cnleio

Something u must like it , how to build the island in SCS ?!

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## cochine

*Japan warns China over 'territorial aggression'*

By AFP August 3, 2016 | 09:48 am GMT+7

By U.N.-backed tribunal's finding last month that there is no legal basis for its ambitions over the South China Sea where the Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia and others also have claims.

The white paper said China was "poised to fulfill its unilateral demands without compromise" including efforts "to turn these coercive changes to the status quo into a fait accompli".

And it again called on Beijing to abide by the ruling of the tribunal, which China has denounced as a fraud.

Chinese state media in Beijing quoted Defense Minister Chang Wanquan as urging preparations for a "people's war at sea" to counter offshore security threats and safeguard sovereignty.

Chang "called for recognition of the seriousness of the national security situation, especially the threat from the sea", Xinhua news agency said.

The military, police and people should prepare to mobilize to defend national sovereignty and territorial integrity, he was quoted as saying during a tour of the coastal province of Zhejiang.

The agency did not elaborate on the source of the threats.

The United States has said it will continue naval patrols close to reefs and outcrops claimed by China to assert the principle of freedom of navigation, a move which has angered Beijing.

In its white paper Japan also expressed concern over increased activity in the East China Sea, where the two countries have competing claims to small uninhabited islets called the Senkakus in Japan and the Diaoyus in China.

"Recently, China has been intensifying activities near the Senkaku Islands, such as its military aircraft flying southward closer to the islands," it said.

In the year to March 2016, Japan's air force scrambled jets 571 times against Chinese planes flying near Japanese airspace, an increase of 107 from the previous year, it added.

*"Irresponsible remarks"*

China lodged a "solemn" protest with Japan over the defense white paper, state broadcaster CCTV said in Beijing.

Xinhua, in a report from Tokyo, blasted the paper and accused Japan of "making irresponsible remarks on China's national defense and China's normal and legal maritime activities in the East and South China Seas".

Last month the two countries were at loggerheads over accusations Japanese warplanes locked their fire control radar onto Chinese aircraft.

Beijing sparked alarm after it unilaterally established an air defense identification zone in the East China Sea in 2013, demanding all aircraft submit flight plans when traversing the zone, which covers islands disputed with Tokyo and also claimed by Taipei.

U.S. Defense Secretary Ashton Carter said in February that China's military presence in the South China Sea was increasing the risk of "miscalculation or conflict".

And tensions have also grown over Indonesia's Natuna Islands in the South China Sea, where Chinese and Indonesian boats have clashed.

Japan's white paper also highlighted concerns over North Korea’s nuclear program, saying it was possible it has "achieved the miniaturization of nuclear weapons and has developed nuclear warheads".

Since carrying out a fourth nuclear test in January, North Korea has claimed it miniaturized a nuclear warhead to fit on a missile and successfully tested an engine designed for an inter-continental ballistic missile that could reach the U.S. mainland.


----------



## ahojunk

_After all the hoopla, it is back to square one!
@TaiShang At the end of the day, it's still money that talks the loudest! _

--------
South China Sea issue not to affect China-Philippines cooperation: ministers
Source: Xinhua | 2016-08-05 19:38:25 | Editor: huaxia





_Chinese Minister of Commerce Gao Hucheng (L) meets with his Philippine counterpart Ramon Lopez in Vientiane, Laos, on Aug. 4, 2016. (Xinhua/Liu Ailun)_

VIENTIANE, Aug. 5 (Xinhua) -- The South China Sea issue does not determine all aspects of China-Philippines relations and will not affect bilateral cooperation in economic, trade and investment fields, ministers from the two countries agreed on Friday.

China and Philippines have the capability and wisdom to solve the issue on the existing basis through bilateral negotiation and the consultation mechanism between China and the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN), said Chinese Minister of Commerce Gao Hucheng after meeting with his Philippine counterpart Ramon Lopez in the Lao capital.

The meeting has focused on measures to further recover and develop economic and trade relations between the two countries, Gao told media on the sidelines of the 48th ASEAN Economic Ministers Meeting that kicked off here Wednesday.

Gao said both Lopez and he agreed that the two countries should restart the China-Philippines joint economic and trade committee, an important mechanism on bilateral trade and economic cooperation, which has been stalled for five years.

The new Philippine administration has repeatedly expressed willingness to improve relations with China through bilateral channels and direct dialogues, which created favorable condition for bilateral cooperation in a number of areas, said the Chinese minister.

The two sides also had an in-depth and extensive exchange of views on bilateral cooperation on trade, two-way investment, infrastructure construction, tourism, trade facilitation and certain industries, he said.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## cochine

*Mexican, Polish associations backs PCA’s ruling
*
_The Mexican Institute for Friendship and Cooperation with Vietnam (IACMV) and Poland’s Saint Stanislaw Brotherhood have voiced their support for the recent ruling of the Permanent Court of Arbitration (PCA) in The Hague on the Philippines’s lawsuit against China’s claims in the East Sea._

_



_

_China illegally builds artificial islands in Vietnam's Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelago (Photo: DigitalGlobe)_


In its statement sent to the Vietnamese Embassy in Mexico, the IACMV highlighted the historical significance of the judgment, saying that it contributes to peacefully settling disputes in the East Sea.

The IACMV called on the Chinese government to respect the verdict, adding that if any country does not abide by international law and acts unilaterally, it will create chaotic conditions and threaten the peace and sovereignty of countries in the region.

The IACMV reaffirmed its strong support for Vietnam’s efforts to safeguard the country’s sovereignty and territorial integrity.

Meanwhile, Ryszard Murat, head of the Saint Stanislaw Brotherhood, said the association applauds the PCA’s judgment at a ceremony to announce the association’s letter to Vietnam Union of Friendship Organisations (VUFO) held in Warsaw on July 23.

The ruling will create a legal foundation for settling East Sea-related disputes in a peaceful manner, he added.

The letter, which shows the association’s support for the PCA’s ruling as well as for Vietnam’s efforts to safeguard the country’s sea and island sovereignty, was handed over to representatives of the Vietnamese Embassy in Poland and to send to VUFO.

Many political parties, civil organisations and individuals worldwide have recently expressed their support for the ruling, as well as Vietnam’s stance on the peaceful settlement of disputes with respect for legal and diplomatic processes.

On July 12, the PCA issued the ruling on the case brought by the Philippines against China’s nine-dash line claim in the East Sea, saying China’s claims to historic rights for waters within the nine-dash line are contrary to the 1982 UNCLOS.

The Hague Tribunal also finds no legal basis for China to claim historic rights to resources within the nine-dash line.

The country has no historic title over waters of the East Sea. At the same time, China has caused permanent and irreparable harm to the coral reef ecosystem at Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelago, the court said.

_VNA_


----------



## JSCh

*Chinese military aircraft patrol South China Sea *
Source: Xinhua | 2016-08-06 18:14:26 | Editor: huaxia

GUANGZHOU, Aug. 6 (Xinhua) -- Chinese Air Force aircraft, including H-6K bombers and Su-30 fighters, have completed a patrol of airspace above the Nansha and Huangyan islands in the South China Sea, said a spokesperson Saturday.

The flight is part of actual combat training to improve the Air Force's response to security threats, said Senior Colonel Shen Jinke of the People's Liberation Army (PLA) Air Force.

Two Su-30 airplanes conducted air refueling twice above the sea, Shen said.

Several types of planes -- bombers, fighters, Airborne Early Warning Aircraft, reconnaissance and tanker airplanes -- performed the patrol, he said, adding that they took off from several airports.

The aircraf have completed a series of training missions, including air defense early warning maneuvers, air combat and island patrolling, in a complicated electromagnetic environment, he said.

The PLA Air Force, which was established 67 years ago, organizes regular South China Sea patrols to safeguard state sovereignty, security and maritime interests, Shen said.

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## cochine

*Japan stresses law compliance in East Sea issue
*
_Japanese Foreign Minister Fumio Kishida called for peaceful settlement and compliance to international law in disputes in the East Sea when meeting with his Lao counterpart Saleumxay Kommasith on July 24._

The meeting took place on the sidelines of the 49 th ASEAN Foreign Ministers’ Meeting which is underway in Laos’ capital of Vientiane, Japan’s Kyodo reported.

According to the press agency, the Japanese Foreign Minister conveyed his country’s stance in the East Sea issue, stressing the importance of respecting international law in the disputes, especially after a tribunal in The Hague, the Netherlands, rejected China's claims to disputed waters in the East Sea.

Kishida expressed his expectations that Laos, as this year’s chair of the 10-member bloc, will play an active role in addressing the East Sea issue.

Although details of Kishida’s talks with his Lao counterpart have not been revealed, the diplomat confirmed Tokyo’s firm stance on the East Sea issue.

Earlier the same day, the foreign minister attended a series of regional meetings of ASEAN in the Laos’ capital city.

The minister also said that Japan will support Laos' development in the energy and farming sectors.

_VNA_


----------



## ahojunk



Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## cochine

ahojunk said:


> View attachment 323718


----------



## Basel

Chinese military aircraft patrol airspace above Nansha, Huangyan islands in #SouthChinaSea https://t.co/nZXPgWJ1y2

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cochine

*Expert: PCA’s ruling helps address East Sea disputes in long run
*
_The recent ruling of the Permanent Court of Arbitration (PCA) on the Philippines lawsuit against China’s claims in the East Sea is significant as it clarifies the claims of the parties involved, thus pushing them towards a settlement of disputes in the long run._

_



_

_Chinese dredging vessels are purportedly seen in the waters around Mischief Reef in the Spratly (Truong Sa) Islands in the East Sea. (Photo: Reuters)_

_
_

The remarks were made by Le Hong Hiep, an expert from the Institute for Southeast Asian Studies.

He said the ruling has helped considerably narrow the scale of disputes in the East Sea, especially those related to China’s claims of its “nine-dash line” and features in Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelago.

The PCA ruled that China’s claims over historical rights within the “nine-dash line” run counter the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), so it has no legal value.

The tribunal also verified that no features in the Spratly archipelago could be considered an island and so are not entitled to a 200 nautical mile exclusive economic zone under UNCLOS, he added.

Regarding this issue, Vietnamese Foreign Ministry Spokesman Le Hai Binh on July 12 confirmed that Vietnam welcomes the PCA’s issuance of the final ruling on July 12 and the country will issue a statement on the ruling’s content.

“Vietnam once again reiterates its consistent stance on this lawsuit as it was fully shown in the Vietnamese Foreign Ministry’s Declaration on December 5, 2014 sent to the arbitration tribunal,” he noted.

“In that spirit, Vietnam strongly supports settling disputes in the East Sea through peaceful measures, including diplomatic and legal processes without the use or threat to use force, as in line with regulations of international law, including the 1982 UNCLOS, maintaining peace and stability in the region, security, safety and freedom of navigation in and overflight over the East Sea, and respecting the law-abiding principle in seas and oceans,” Binh said.

“On this occasion, Vietnam once again affirms its sovereignty over Hoang Sa (Paracel) and Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelagoes, the sovereignty over internal waters and territorial waters, the sovereign right and jurisdiction over Vietnam ’s exclusive economic zone and continental shelf as defined in line with the 1982 UNCLOS.”

Vietnam upholds all of its legitimate rights and interests regarding the geographical structures belonging to Hoang Sa and Truong Sa archipelagoes, he added.

_VNA_


----------



## JSCh

*National South China Sea Oceanic Resources Development Laboratory opens in Hainan*
(People's Daily Online) 16:51, August 08, 2016
​ 





(File photo of Yongxing Island on the South China Sea)​ 

On Aug. 7, China unveiled a new key national laboratory. The laboratory, under dual management from the Ministry of Science and Technology and the Hainan provincial government, is located at Hainan University.

It aims to promote national strategy on the South China Sea as well as to support provincial development goals through targeted exploitation, preservation and research on oceanic resources in the South China Sea, China News Service (CNS) reported. The Hainan government has earmarked 10 million yuan to support the laboratory every year.

According to CNS, the laboratory will focus on the development and preservation of organism resources, organisms for medical use and microorganisms. Other research fields include oceanic farming, oceanic biology protection, development of quartz sand and other new materials and oceanic power technology.

The laboratory will both help to elevate China as a major maritime power and boost local economic development. It can also help with talent training, according to Ye Zhenxing, party chief of Hainan's Department of Science and Technology.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## cochine

*US backs Philippines *

The U.S., which has criticized Chinese construction and creation of artificial islands in the South China Sea, is perceived to be backing Manila.

"I think the U.K., Australia, and other Western countries are willing to stand firm on their principles on this matter. I am doubtful they will back China or even remain silent," Glaser said, adding that "China needs the U.K., Australia and other nations just as much as they need China."

And while China has hoped that the Philippines would drop the case, it is unlikely that the situation there will change much as well. The Philippines holds presidential elections on Monday and most of the candidates in the polls have taken a staunch view against China.

"This means, the Sino-Philippine relations won't see quick and substantive changes even after the new president is sworn in, whoever he or she is,” said Ju Hailong, a research fellow at the Collaborative Innovation Center for South China Sea Studies.

http://www.voanews.com/content/beijing-warns-critics-over-south-china-sea-dispute/3318147.html


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Glorino said:


> China behaviour is closely associated with the way the Axis powers GERMANY, JAPAN and ITALY behaved prior to the second world war. Need for Asian countries to beef up security- do not get caught with your pants down. VERY VERY VERY SERIOUS SERIOUS ISSUE UNFOLDING



 That is a very shallow and askew assessment.

If your assessment is based on China's stand on historical lands then let not forget China own argument. China is a very old country and when her ancient navy landed on these islands, Vietnam was ANNAM (her province), Philippines (never existed), Malaysia was mainly controlled by SIAM.

So who do you think are China's partners in the new AXIS?

The so called SERIOUS, SERIOUS ISSUE that you imagine will be settled once ASIA countries takes control of their own destiny and do not submit themselves to the hegemonic agenda of imperialist West, USA and her allies.

Imagine what the region will be if the Western Colonialist and its Asian imitator Japan did not invaded the other weaker nations. Yet in history, ancient China as a super naval power then did not colonial any one of them e.g. Malacca, Sri Lanka, etc. 

Time to read your real Malayan history and discovered how the Japanese invader decapitate more than 10,000 victims and buried them in Rifle Range Flat alone in Penang alone. There were many unnamed sites as well.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## cochine

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> That is a very shallow and askew assessment.
> 
> If your assessment is based on China's stand on historical lands then let not forget China own argument. China is a very old country and when her ancient navy landed on these islands, Vietnam was ANNAM (her province), Philippines (never existed), Malaysia was mainly controlled by SIAM.
> 
> So who do you think are China's partners in the new AXIS?
> 
> The so called SERIOUS, SERIOUS ISSUE that you imagine will be settled once ASIA countries takes control of their own destiny and do not submit themselves to the hegemonic agenda of imperialist West, USA and her allies.
> 
> Imagine what the region will be if the Western Colonialist and its Asian imitator Japan did not invaded the other weaker nations. Yet in history, ancient China as a super naval power then did not colonial any one of them e.g. Malacca, Sri Lanka, etc.
> 
> Time to read your real Malayan history and discovered how the Japanese invader decapitate more than 10,000 victims and buried them in Rifle Range Flat alone in Penang alone. There were many unnamed sites as well.



Historically Han Chinese were in North China. Vietnamese discovered the East Sea in Vietnamese, so why SCS is called Cochin Sea by Han chinese in the past. There is sea of Vietnamese. We are native people here.


----------



## Han Patriot

kecho said:


> Historically Han Chinese were in North China. Vietnamese discovered the East Sea in Vietnamese, so why SCS is called Cochin Sea by Han chinese in the past. There is sea of Vietnamese. We are native people here.


You need to understand Han Chinese went south and intermarried with the locals and became todays South Chinese. Some of those South Chinese locals fled south to Vietnam and established dynasties and intermarried with Champa people, therefore you see darker skinned Viets.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

kecho said:


> Historically Han Chinese were in North China. Vietnamese discovered the East Sea in Vietnamese, so why SCS is called Cochin Sea by Han chinese in the past. There is sea of Vietnamese. We are native people here.



OK Let us look at your argument.

I will just refer someone else research on the subject from says Wiki.

The *Han Chinese*, *Han people*[29][30][31] or simply *Han*[30][31] (汉族; pinyin: _Hànzú_, literally "Han ethnicity"[32] or "Han ethnic group";[33] or 汉人; pinyin: _Hànrén_, literally "Han people"[34]) are an ethnic group native to East Asia. They constitute approximately 92% of the population of Mainland China, 93% of the population of Hong Kong, 92% of the population of Macau, 98% of the population of Taiwan (Han Taiwanese), 76.2% of the citizen population of Singapore,[_citation needed_] 23.4% of the population of Malaysia[35][_citation needed_] and about 18% of the entire global human population, making them the largest ethnic group in the world.

So according to the above, Han Chinese made up of 92% of the population of Mainland China and China has says 1.3~1.4 billion people distributed across the nation, you still think what you write hold water.

Han Patriot is quite right in his reply as there are Han Chinese DNA present in many of the ethnic races including people who lived in Vietnam (Formerly Annam).

Anyway Vietnam comprises of many former tribes and in the South, the descendant of the Kingdom of Kampa which was later annexed by the Chinese King in ANNAM. Hence it is not surprising to me if you discovered you are in fact a partial Han by virtue of Han DNA in your body.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cnleio

Glorino said:


> China behaviour is closely associated with the way the Axis powers GERMANY, JAPAN and ITALY behaved prior to the second world war. Need for Asian countries to beef up security- do not get caught with your pants down. VERY VERY VERY SERIOUS SERIOUS ISSUE UNFOLDING


There is no peaceful Axis power, there's no Axis power as the permanent member of UNSC ... ur claim just against the U.N. U can piss off China and nobody care that, here i point out once U.N in there China still is one member of *"FIVE JUSTICE"* in this world since WWII. 

U wanna change the* "FIVE JUSTICE",* u need another World War ~!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## j20blackdragon

*Photos suggest China built reinforced hangars on disputed islands: CSIS*
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-southchinasea-china-images-idUSKCN10K08P

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

j20blackdragon said:


> *Photos suggest China built reinforced hangars on disputed islands: CSIS*
> http://www.reuters.com/article/us-southchinasea-china-images-idUSKCN10K08P
> 
> View attachment 324591
> View attachment 324592
> View attachment 324593
> View attachment 324594
> View attachment 324595
> View attachment 324596
> View attachment 324597



*The decision for militarization of these islands were practically forced onto China by the unnecessary and senseless intrusion into these water claimed by China by the USA naval warships using the excuse of testing the so-called Freedom of Navigation. 

Now these moves have backfired and US Military have to face the imminent threat they create for themselves. 

Great strategy USA! Whoever the dumbass strategians who suggest these may be? They should give him a rise in his pay and China may be more than happy to chip it. *

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cochine

Han Patriot said:


> You need to understand Han Chinese went south and intermarried with the locals and became todays South Chinese. Some of those South Chinese locals fled south to Vietnam and established dynasties and intermarried with Champa people, therefore you see darker skinned Viets.



what you said is related to Southerner Han Chinese, Hokklo. Minnan , Cantonese etc. Vietnamese (Yue) Y DNA is much more older than Han Chinese Y DNA. Pls study more..

In Vietnam there is more sunlighting in south compared to the north Vietnam.


----------



## JSCh

*Tour operator in Taiwan offers 1-day tour of Taiping Island*
(People's Daily Online) 14:25, August 10, 2016




Over 1,000 people have signed up for a tour that will take them to watch the moon on Taiping Island. The tour, which lasts just one day, is organized by TaiwanXing under Taiwan's 1111 Human Resource Bank. The organizer said the planning of the tour has already been finalized, and that they are just awaiting approval from relevant departments.

In addition to viewing the island's tourist sites, those who go on the trip get the added bonus of defending the island on China's behalf, according to Li Qiyue, an adviser to TaiwanXing. Li believes that one reason the tour is so popular is that the public is eager to do just that.

The agency has chosen to launch the tour during Mid-Autumn Festival. Tours will be offered from Sept. 9 to 18. Tourist will head to the island by airplane and take a tour around the island, exploring its history and culture. They will then enjoy a special dinner and moon cakes under the night sky before flying home at 8 p.m.

Chen Guisong, head of the Association of Taiwan Travel Agencies, said he is very supportive of the tour. Exploring Taiping Island will increase the content and diversity tours available in Taiwan.

Taiping Island, which is 1,420 meters long and 402 meters wide, is the largest natural island within the Nansha Islands. The Chinese army took it over from Japan and renamed it Taiping Island after China's victory in the War of Resistance Against Japanese Aggression in 1945.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## cochine

*Argentine scholar hails PCA’s ruling over East Sea dispute
*
_Professor Ezequiel Ramoneda, coordinator from the La Plata University’s Centre for Southeast Asia Studies, has hailed the ruling of the Permanent Court of Arbitration (PCA) in The Hague, the Netherlands, regarding the Philippines’ lawsuit against China._


_



_

_Illustrative image_


In his article published on the Resumen Latinoamericano newspaper, he said the ruling provides an important legal precedent for the East Sea sovereignty disputes involving Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei, Indonesia, besides China and the Philippines.

He underscored the economic and strategic significance of the East Sea, describing it as an important navigation route that is rich in fishing and fuel resources.

Ramoneda criticised China’s disregard for the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the East Sea signed by the country and the Association of Southeast Asian Nations in 1992, evidenced by its occupation of the Scarborough Shoal in 2012 as well as the expanded construction on artificial islands.

The scholar also protested China’s groundless claim for the so-called “nine-dash line” in the East Sea irrespective of parties concerned. He said that was an aggressive action instead of the peaceful settlement of differences.

China has also prevented other countries’ fishermen from go fishing in the area, which has threatened maritime freedom and safety and the ecological environment.

Vietnam and the Philippines are the hardest hit by China’s behaviours, he stressed, admitting that though the ruling is yet to deal with sovereignty issue in the East Sea to the root, it has rejected China’s claim for the “nine-dash line”, contributing to ensuring regional security.

He warned that China’s defiance of the ruling would exacerbate tension and challenge international law, particularly the enforcement of the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea.

_VNA_


----------



## ahojunk

Hanoi artillery report brings Beijing reproval
(China Daily) 07:29, August 11, 2016

China emphasized its opposition on Wednesday to Vietnam's military deployments on islands that the country has illegally occupied in the South China Sea, following the reported deployment of rocket launchers by Vietnam on several of the Nansha Islands.

The move, which shows a further stage of Hanoi's militarization of the Nansha Islands, will have a negative impact on regional peace and stability, observers said.

Intelligence shows that Hanoi has shipped the launchers to five bases in the Nansha Islands in recent months, Reuters reported on Wednesday.

The launchers have been hidden from aerial surveillance and have yet to be armed, but could be made operational with artillery rockets within two or three days, it said.

Foreign officials and military analysts told Reuters that they believe the launchers form part of Vietnam's state-of-the-art EXTRA artillery rocket system, which was recently acquired from Israel.

"China has indisputable sovereignty over the Nansha Islands and their surrounding waters," the Foreign Ministry's Spokesperson's Office said in a written reply on Wednesday.

"China has always firmly opposed the illegal occupation of parts of China's Nansha Islands and reefs by certain countries and their illegal construction and military deployments on these islands and reefs," it said.

Vietnam's Foreign Ministry said the information was "inaccurate" but did not elaborate.

Vietnam has illegally occupied 29 of about 50 islands and reefs in the South China Sea.

It has conducted construction and reclamation work on more than 20 of them since the 1980s, and the scale of the reclamation has increased in the past two years.

It also has built infrastructure, including runways and barracks, on the islands and reefs.

Jia Duqiang, a senior researcher on Southeast Asian studies at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, said it is Hanoi's latest effort to tighten its hold on islands in the South China Sea.

"By fortifying the islands with rocket launchers, Vietnam is keeping up its militarization of the region in a more aggressive way," he said.

Xu Liping, another Southeast Asian studies researcher with CASS, said Hanoi is trying to emphasize its determination to strengthen its illegal occupation of the islands.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cochine

*Japan to beef up defense cooperation with Vietnam*

TUOI TRE NEWS

UPDATED : 08/10/2016 15:28 GMT + 7




Shimpei Ara (R), head of the International Operations Division under Japan’s Ministry of Defense, during an interview with a Tuoi Tre (Youth) newspaper reporter

Tuoi Tre
ruling of the arbitration tribunal in The Hague, which rejected China’s nine-point territorial and economic claims across large swathes of the waterway, in a suit brought by the Philippines.

Japan has been urging China to comply with the decision and international law via multiple diplomatic channels, Ara continued.

The East Asian nation has also helped shore up Vietnam’s defense capabilities along with other countries' in the Asia-Pacific region in an effort to restrict China’s unilateral activities there, he added.

Assessing the role of Vietnam, Ara said that the nation has a significant influence in the maritime area, and hoped that Hanoi would join hands with Tokyo and other countries to ensure regional peace.

Vietnam needs to augment its naval force and coast guard units to increase its influence in the area, he asserted.

Based on the common visions of the two nations’ defense ministries, Japan has established several policies to cooperate with Vietnam, including all-level delegation exchanges between defense forces, multinational conferences, capability assistance, and more, Ara said.

Ties in new fields, namely non-traditional security, naval security and safety, and investigation and rescue, will also be forged, according to the Japanese official.

He reiterated the joint statements issued during a previous visit to Vietnam by Japanese Minister of Defense Gen Nakatani, which were aimed at preserving regional peace, opposing any actions that compromise stability, and respecting international law.

Based on the request of Vietnam, Japan’s defense ministry will continue to support the nation in building its defense capability, Ara added.

He expected that more vessels from the Japanese naval force would be able to dock at Vietnamese seaports during their international operations once collaboration between the two countries is cemented.


----------



## ahojunk

_From China's perspective - Japan is up to no good, there is a price to pay.
From Japan's perspective - it is trying to get access to naval bases and sale of boats._

--------
Japan eyeing Philippine naval ports: expert
2016-08-12 08:32 | Global Times | Editor: Li Yan

*'Tokyo is encouraging Southeast Asian neighbors to confront China'*

Japan's real purpose in helping improve Philippine naval forces is to get to use the latter's ports, a maritime expert said, even as Tokyo and the Philippines on Thursday urged China to observe the rule of law in resolving maritime disputes.

Japanese Foreign Minister Fumio Kishida's visit to Manila shows that Japan is encouraging the Philippine government to pursue the former administration's policy against China while spreading the misleading message that China has no intention to fix the souring relationship with Japan, experts said.

Kishida met his counterpart Perfecto Yasay in the southern Philippine city of Davao, where both pledged to work closely to boost maritime security while facing separate sea disputes with China, AFP reported.

Kishida is visiting the Philippines to strengthen "friendly ties." During the visit, both sides will discuss both the South and East China sea issues, and the possible sale of Japanese patrol ships to the Philippines, according to the Kyodo News Agency.

Japan appears to be trying to help the Philippines improve its naval forces, but its real purpose is to capitalize on these cooperation programs to use Philippine naval ports, Song Zhongping, a Beijing-based military expert, told the Global Times.

Japan is offering the Philippines patrol ships and P-3C aircraft at a low price or even for free to enhance Manila's maritime defense, Song said.

Lü Yaodong, director of the Institute of Japanese Studies at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, stressed that Japan is the most aggressive "trouble maker" by encouraging Southeast Asian countries to confront China, disrupting negotiations between Beijing and Manila, especially as former Philippine president Fidel Ramos meets with contacts from the Chinese side in Hong Kong.

The visit of Chinese Assistant Foreign Minister Kong Xuanyou to Japan this month has been suspended due to China's displeasure over Japan's repeated protests against the presence of Chinese vessels around the Diaoyu Islands in the East China Sea, the Asahi Shimbun newspaper reported.

A Japanese government source said under such an intense situation, chances of a meeting between Chinese President Xi Jinping and Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe at next month's G20 summit in Hangzhou are "collapsing," the Asahi Shimbun reported.

Lü explained that Japan is accusing China of showing no sincerity in maintaining sound bilateral ties, by claiming China is preventing its diplomats from communicating with Japan.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

*If only the Filipino politicians would bother to take some time to read about its history and the halocausts of the Manila Massacre in 1945 where more than 100,000 folks perished - raped and murdered by retreating Japanese Imperial Army, they will reconsidered their position.

The Japanese Parliamentarians repeated visits to the Yasukuni Shrine show that JAPAN has never repented for their WW2 actrocities.*

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## cochine

*PH CAN FILE NEW ARBITRAL CASE AGAINST CHINA*
Posted on August 11, 2016





Share on FacebookTweet on Twitter


The Philippine government can file new case against China to receive monetary reward for the damages China has caused in the West Philippine Sea, Senior Associate Justice Antonio Carpio said Thursday.

Carpio said monetary damages was not included in the first case filed before the Permanent Court of Arbitration.

“We can file a new case to quantify the damages that we are entitled. That has not been resolved because we did not pray for it,” Carpio said.

He also pushed for the declaration of the Spratly Islands as a marine protected area to prevent further environment ruin in the West Philippine Sea.

“The proposal is that all claimant states to suspend claims for 50 to 100 years and declare Spatlys a marine protected area. All geographical features will be declared fish sanctuary up to three nautical miles,” Carpio said.

http://tankler.com/ph-can-file-new-arbitral-case-against-china-7173


----------



## Glorino

JAPAN TO BEEF UP DEFENSE COOPERATION WITH VIETNAM

Japan should do more to beef up defense cooperation and capacity building of not only Vietnam but other South East Asian nations to maintain peace and transquility for further development of the nations to maintain maritime peace in South China Sea


----------



## cochine

*Philippines urges China to respect rule of law
*
_Philippine Foreign Minister Perfecto Yasay on August 11 called on China to respect maritime law and security as well as the rule of law to resolve disputes in both the East Sea and the East China Sea._


_



_

_Philippine Foreign Minister Perfecto Yasay
_

The appeal was made during talks between Yasay and his Japanese counterpart Fumio Kishida in Manila to discuss regional security, cooperation in maritime security, law enforcement and Japanese support for economic development.

Yasay told a press conference that the Philippines and Japan are facing similar issues in the East Sea and the East China Sea.

Japan has a dispute with China over a group of islands in the East China Sea while the Philippines and China have overlapping claims in the East Sea.

On July 12, the Permanent Court of Arbitration at The Hague, the Netherlands issued a ruling rejecting China’s “nine-dash line” claim in the East Sea as well as its claims to “historical rights” in the waters.

_VNA_


----------



## hoangsa74

_
Barque Canada Reef. Measure from top to bottom is 31.5 km. It's widest width is 5.6km. Total area excluding the lagoon should be more than 80km2. This is the largest reef in the Spratly. If this reef is turned into an artificial island, it can be a city of a few hundred thousand inhabitants. Vietnam currently holds this reef. 








_


----------



## BoQ77

Japan gave tons of money to Southeast Asia



ahojunk said:


> _From China's perspective - Japan is up to no good, there is a price to pay.
> From Japan's perspective - it is trying to get access to naval bases and sale of boats._
> 
> --------
> Japan eyeing Philippine naval ports: expert
> 2016-08-12 08:32 | Global Times | Editor: Li Yan
> 
> *'Tokyo is encouraging Southeast Asian neighbors to confront China'*
> 
> Japan's real purpose in helping improve Philippine naval forces is to get to use the latter's ports, a maritime expert said, even as Tokyo and the Philippines on Thursday urged China to observe the rule of law in resolving maritime disputes.
> 
> Japanese Foreign Minister Fumio Kishida's visit to Manila shows that Japan is encouraging the Philippine government to pursue the former administration's policy against China while spreading the misleading message that China has no intention to fix the souring relationship with Japan, experts said.
> 
> Kishida met his counterpart Perfecto Yasay in the southern Philippine city of Davao, where both pledged to work closely to boost maritime security while facing separate sea disputes with China, AFP reported.
> 
> Kishida is visiting the Philippines to strengthen "friendly ties." During the visit, both sides will discuss both the South and East China sea issues, and the possible sale of Japanese patrol ships to the Philippines, according to the Kyodo News Agency.
> 
> Japan appears to be trying to help the Philippines improve its naval forces, but its real purpose is to capitalize on these cooperation programs to use Philippine naval ports, Song Zhongping, a Beijing-based military expert, told the Global Times.
> 
> Japan is offering the Philippines patrol ships and P-3C aircraft at a low price or even for free to enhance Manila's maritime defense, Song said.
> 
> Lü Yaodong, director of the Institute of Japanese Studies at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, stressed that Japan is the most aggressive "trouble maker" by encouraging Southeast Asian countries to confront China, disrupting negotiations between Beijing and Manila, especially as former Philippine president Fidel Ramos meets with contacts from the Chinese side in Hong Kong.
> 
> The visit of Chinese Assistant Foreign Minister Kong Xuanyou to Japan this month has been suspended due to China's displeasure over Japan's repeated protests against the presence of Chinese vessels around the Diaoyu Islands in the East China Sea, the Asahi Shimbun newspaper reported.
> 
> A Japanese government source said under such an intense situation, chances of a meeting between Chinese President Xi Jinping and Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe at next month's G20 summit in Hangzhou are "collapsing," the Asahi Shimbun reported.
> 
> Lü explained that Japan is accusing China of showing no sincerity in maintaining sound bilateral ties, by claiming China is preventing its diplomats from communicating with Japan.



In Vietnamese "bãi Thuyền Chài" "bai Thuyen Chai"
Vietnam has 3 garrison sites on it.









hoangsa74 said:


> _Barque Canada Reef. Measure from top to bottom is 31.5 km. It's widest width is 5.6km. Total area excluding the lagoon should be more than 80km2. This is the largest reef in the Spratly. If this reef is turned into an artificial island, it can be a city of a few hundred thousand inhabitants. Vietnam currently holds this reef.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _


----------



## BoQ77

*Cornwallis South Reef*
đá Núi Le : length 10km, width 5km


----------



## TaiShang

Huangyan development will start soon, bros.

Hold your breath.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Bussard Ramjet

*In bid to defend sovereignty, Indonesia plans to change name of South China Sea to Natuna Sea*
The plan would involve renaming the sea surrounding the Natuna Islands, which lie to the northwest of the Indonesian part of Borneo, within their 200 nautical mile exclusive economic zone

PUBLISHED : Thursday, 18 August, 2016, 10:59am
UPDATED : Thursday, 18 August, 2016, 10:59am
Comments: 2 






In a bid to maintain its sovereignty in the region, Indonesia announced on Wednesday evening that it will seek to change the name of the South China Sea to the Natuna Sea in the area within 200 miles of its Natuna Islands.

Ahmad Santosa, the Chief of Task Force 115, an agency combating illegal fishing, said the proposal will “be given to the United Nations”, adding that “if no one objects ... then it will be officially the Natuna Sea”.

The plan would involve renaming the sea surrounding the Natuna Islands, which lie to the northwest of the Indonesian part of Borneo, within their 200 nautical mile exclusive economic zone.

The islands’ mayor, Hamid Rizal, said the change was aimed at helping people to understand that section of the sea belongs to Indonesia, and to help fight illegal, unreported and unregulated fishing in Indonesian waters.

On Wednesday, Indonesian Independence Day, authorities sank 60 vessels – 58 foreign boats and two domestic vessels – because of such fishing. Most of these were in the Natuna area, which is often claimed by China as a traditional fishing ground.

The same day, Minister of Fisheries and Marine Affairs, Susi Pudjiastuti, said “my ministerial role is dealing with fish and all natural resources from the sea. I do not talk about sovereignty of political territories. I am talking about sovereignty over fish and ocean marine resources. As long as the fish are swimming in Indonesia’s EEZ, they are Indonesian fish. If someone takes it from there, it is illegal.”

Susi added that Indonesia only has a fishing rights agreement with Malaysia in the Malacca Strait. She highlighted that Indonesia does not recognise any traditional fishing ground, referring to Chinese claims in Natuna’s waters.

Since December 2014, Susi’s ministry has sunk 236 vessels.

The vessels are left to become artificial reefs for fish. However, five of them will become a monument in Pangandaran, West Java. Next to the monument, Susi’s ministry will make the International Maritime Museum, assisted by the United States and Norway.

Besides sinking the ships, Susi also held a groundbreaking ceremony for a detention centre for illegal fishing on Indonesia’s Independence Day. The building will have a capacity of 300 to 500 people, and is estimated to be finished before the end of 2016.

To develop the Natuna Islands, Indonesia will also build an integrated fisheries area, which will include a 200 tonne cold storage capacity.

The South China Sea has been the site of numerous clashes over territorial claims, with China asserting its claim more aggressively in recent months with extensive land reclamation and building of military facilities on reefs and islands in the sea.

China’s claim to much of the sea overlaps land claims by the Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan, and also overlaps Indonesia’s exclusive economic zone around the Natuna Islands.

The Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague recently ruled that China’s claim was invalid, and that it had caused irreparable damage to the marine environment in the region.



Source: https://defence.pk/threads/in-bid-t...china-sea-to-natuna-sea.444836/#ixzz4HfM0A5SP


----------



## cochine

*ISRAEL OFFERS SHALDAG MK. V TO PHILIPPINE NAVY*
Posted on August 17, 2016





Share on FacebookTweet on Twitter


Israel Shipyards with the assistance of the Israel Ministry of Defense has formally offered Shaldag Mk V fast attack craft to the Philippine Navy (PN). MaxDefense reports.

President Rodrigo Duterte will continue the modernization of AFP but will focus more on internal security. Duterte plans to improve the AFP by purchasing equipment such as helicopter and fast craft.

The Philippine Navy recently released a Request for Information (RFI) for 6 Fast Attack Crafts to equip the Littoral Combat Force of the Philippine Fleet.

According to MaxDefense, the Mk. V, which is currently the Shaldag family’s largest variant, is almost the same size as the Philippine Navy’s own Andrada-class patrol gunboats, but is faster and is proven to carry more weapons than the PN’s almost 30-year old US-designed boats.

The proposed Philippine Navy variant of the Shaldag Mk. V is expected to be armed with a stabilized remote weapons station for a 25mm gun, and small surface-to-surface missiles which MaxDefense expects to be the Spike family due to the PN’s recent order of Spike-ER missiles for the Multi-Purpose Attack Craft (MPAC) Mk. 3.


----------



## ahojunk

*Interior minister arrives on Taiping Island*
2016/08/16 13:07:30





_The hospital on Taiping Island. (File photo courtesy of the Presidential Office)_


Taipei, Aug. 16 (CNA) Interior Minister Yeh Jiunn-rong (葉俊榮) led officials and scholars on a visit to Taiping Island on Tuesday, hoping to underscore Taiwan's sovereignty over the island and establish it as a climate change research base.

Yeh arrived on the island -- the biggest in the Spratlys in the South China Sea -- accompanied by Coast Guard and land administration officials, climate change experts, and researchers participating in a Ministry of Science and Technology South China Sea research project.

In addition to asserting Taiwan's sovereignty over the island, the visit was aimed at setting up long-term observation facilities there and seeking opportunities for global cooperation on climate issues, according to the ministry.

The observation post can be operated by an international team, and the information gathered can be shared with the international community, ministry officials said Monday.

Kaohsiung Mayor Chen Chu (陳菊) said Tuesday that Taiping Island is under the jurisdiction of Kaohsiung and officials from her city also took part in Tuesday's trip and were scheduled to install an address plaque that reads "Nansha No. 2" on the island's hospital building.

The Spratly Islands are also known as the Nansha Islands.

When asked on Tuesday if the government had informed the United States of the visit, a Ministry of Foreign Affairs official said it was normal for Yeh to visit Taiping Island and "there is no need to inform other countries" about the visit.

When asked by a reporter on Monday if the U.S. had received any notice of the trip from President Tsai Ing-wen's (蔡英文) administration, U.S. State Department spokeswoman Elizabeth Trudeau said she would not comment specifically on the visit.

But she called on all South China Sea claimants to avoid actions that would raise tensions and intensify efforts to find a peaceful and diplomatic solution to disputes.

When asked if Yeh is paving the road for President Tsai Ing-wen (蔡英文) to visit the island in the future, Cabinet spokesman Tung Chen-yuan (童振源) said "future visits are not ruled out" but there are currently no such plans. 

(By Liu Li-jung, Tang Pei-chun and Christie Chen)

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cochine

*Vietnam protests Chinese Taiwan’s violation of Truong Sa*
_Visits by a number of Taiwanese officials to the Ba Binh (Itu Aba) feature area have seriously violated Vietnam’s sovereignty over the Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelago, stated Foreign Ministry spokesperson Le Hai Binh on July 28._


_



_

_Foreign Ministry spokesperson Le Hai Binh._


Responding to a reporter’s question on Vietnam’s stance on the Taiwanese officials’ visits, the diplomat stressed that Vietnam resolutely protests the visits and demands Taiwan not to repeat those and contribute to maintaining peace and stability in the East Sea.

“Vietnam asserts its indisputable sovereignty over Hoang Sa (Paracel) and Truong Sa archipelagoes. All activities carried out by foreign sides in these areas without Vietnam’s permission are illegal,” stated the spokesperson.

_VNA_


----------



## ahojunk

Taiwan a victim of S. China Sea ruling: Canadian think tank
By Chanda JL, Special to The China Post
August 18, 2016, 12:12 am TWN

TAIPEI, Taiwan -- The NATO Association of Canada has said that Taiwan had been victimized by last month's Hague ruling on the South China Sea.

In an article published on the association's website, research analyst David Sutton said that though "The Hague ruling wished to restrict the Asian giant China ... it ended up affecting Taiwan."

Sutton said that the case, which was brought to establish the legal rights of the Philippines in the South China Sea, had harmed an "unrecognized but abiding member" in Taiwan.

The article rebuts the ruling's finding that Taiping should not be classified as an island, which would entitle it to a 200-square-kilometer exclusive economic zone.

Pointing to Article 121 of the U.N. Convention on the Law of the Sea, which defines an island as "a naturally formed area of land, surrounded by water," the article argues that Taiping's status "should not be up for dispute."

Sutton says that Taiwan had maintained a cooperative approach to disputes in the South China Sea, pointing to the Agreement Concerning the Facilitation of Cooperation on Law Enforcement in Fisheries Matters (台菲漁業事務執法合作協定), which was finalized between the Philippines and Taiwan last year. The agreement was prompted by hostilities between the two sides in the SCS that resulted in the death of a Taiwanese fisherman two years ago.

Sutton adds that such agreements showed "Taiwan's commitment to a conciliatory approach to matters of overlapping claims," which he says mitigates "the court's concerns that Taiwan would try to prevent the Philippines access to the region surrounding Taiping Island."

He also states that protecting the claims of Taiwan should be in the interest of all parties who oppose those of China, adding that the Hague ruling's effect on Taiping's island status had challenged the integrity and validity of the international community, of which Taiwan was an active member.

The ruling elicited an angry response from the Taiwanese government — which has usually adopted a cooperative approach — forcing it to stand up for its territorial claims, the report says.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## hoangsa74

The ruling that Taiping is a reef favors Vietnam in this case. Since Taiwan/China controls this island; giving Taiping the status of "island" would mean that Taiwan/China is the only one claimant who has 200 mile EEZ in the Spratly. Naturally, Taiping would qualify as an island since it is the only island that has natural fresh water and by definition can sustain life on its own. The viet kong are jumping up and down protesting the PCA ruling but they don't realize the PCA's ruling indirectly help them in this case because none of viet kong's island holding in the Spratly has natural fresh water like Taiping island.


----------



## cochine

hoangsa74 said:


> The ruling that Taiping is a reef favors Vietnam in this case. Since Taiwan/China controls this island; giving Taiping the status of "island" would mean that Taiwan/China is the only one claimant who has 200 mile EEZ in the Spratly. Naturally, Taiping would qualify as an island since it is the only island that has natural fresh water and by definition can sustain life on its own. The viet kong are jumping up and down protesting the PCA ruling but they don't realize the PCA's ruling indirectly help them in this case because none of viet kong's island holding in the Spratly has natural fresh water like Taiping island.



Taiwan has robbed Itu Aba from south Vietnam in 1956. Occupation with force is illegal. PCA ruling said that China ( included Taiwan) doesn't has historical sovereignty over SCS, it is enough said.


----------



## hoangsa74

Taiwan did not go to war against south vn to get itu aba. Same thing with the phillipnes getting thitu island. Occupation when there was no owner is different than going to war and rob it from someone. Historical evidence means jack in modern day lawsuit. Everyone including the chinese have evidence that they some point in time occupied or discovered spratly. The status quo is that taipjng is not occupied by vn. Had pca awarded taiping the island status. Vn would have in Big trouble because none of vn holding in the spratly has natural fresh water to qualify for 200 miles eez


----------



## cochine

hoangsa74 said:


> Taiwan did not go to war against south vn to get itu aba. Same thing with the phillipnes getting thitu island. Occupation when there was no owner is different than going to war and rob it from someone. Historical evidence means jack in modern day lawsuit. Everyone including the chinese have evidence that they some point in time occupied or discovered spratly. The status quo is that taipjng is not occupied by vn. Had pca awarded taiping the island status. Vn would have in Big trouble because none of vn holding in the spratly has natural fresh water to qualify for 200 miles eez



Taiwan invasion is in 1956. Hoang sa and Truong Sa is part of Vietnam sovereignty territory from long time ago.


----------



## CCP

kecho said:


> Taiwan invasion is in 1956. Hoang sa and Truong Sa is part of Vietnam sovereignty territory from long time ago.



Well, vietnam is part of China from long time ago too.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## cochine

CCP said:


> Well, vietnam is part of China from long time ago too.





CCP said:


> Well, vietnam is part of China from long time ago too.



apply your logic, China is part of Japan Imperial recently.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

New CCG vessels
















ready to roll

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## fadine

China is part of Japan

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## CCP

kecho said:


> apply your logic, China is part of Japan Imperial recently.



1. I am applying your logic that :"it belong to XXX at some point ,so it belongs to XXX now"

2. japan just seized part for China less than 20 years, and I do know the whole vietnam is either part of China or vassle state of China in most of its hisotry.



fadine said:


> China is part of Japan



Should be the other way around.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_of_Na_gold_seal

"_*The five Chinese characters appearing on the seal identify it as the seal of the King of the Na state of the Wa *__*(Japan), vassal state of the Han Dynasty*_."

Reactions: Like Like:

3


----------



## cochine

CCP said:


> 1. I am applying your logic that :"it belong to XXX at some point ,so it belongs to XXX now"
> 
> 2. japan just seized part for China less than 20 years, and I do know the whole vietnam is either part of China or vassle state of China in most of its hisotry.
> 
> 
> 
> Should be the other way around.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_of_Na_gold_seal
> 
> "_*The five Chinese characters appearing on the seal identify it as the seal of the King of the Na state of the Wa *__*(Japan), vassal state of the Han Dynasty*_."



China is part of Mongolia Imperial for long time in the past,.


----------



## CCP

kecho said:


> China is part of Mongolia Imperial for long time in the past,.




Again, Mongolia is part of China for much longer time.

BTW, if you think 90 years is a long time, then how about the 1000+ year vietnam under the direct Chinese rule?
_*"Vietnam was part of Imperial China for over a millennium, from 111 BC to AD 939."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam*_

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

kecho said:


> apply your logic, China is part of Japan Imperial recently.



 *NOTHING to do with LOGIC!*

Vietnam was always a quasi-state within the Chinese Empire called *ANNAM *and Japan was *NEVER* a part of ancient China.

*When Vietnam produce an ancient map and it was all written in Chinese, what does that tells us LOGICALLY?*

In history when some of these ancient quasi-states or provinces rebel against the Empire in support of the former Dynasty e.g. former Ming officials against the Qing, the newly installed Emperor will issued his decree and crushed them mercilessly e.g. the Southern Han which was based in Quangdong (The King of ANNAM was under the control of the King of Southern Han.)

Hence many Vietnamese especially the descendants of the former Kingdom of Kampa (South Vietnam, Kampuchae), the Khmer Krom which was annexed by the King of Annam believed that Vietnam is former still KAMPA. 

They are WRONG!



CCP said:


> Again, Mongolia is part of China for much longer time.
> 
> BTW, if you think 90 years is a long time, then how about the 1000+ year vietnam under the direct Chinese rule?
> _*"Vietnam was part of Imperial China for over a millennium, from 111 BC to AD 939."
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam*_



In recent years, British archaeologists discovered a buried part of the Chinese Great Wall in Outer Mongolia.

When does that tells us and now QUESTION is raised?

Where was the real MONGOLIA or was it in fact merely the STEPPE as tribes in Mongolia were known to be NOMADS?

Was Mongolia inside Siberia or in CENTRAL ASIA?

ANNAM which any doubt was the ancient part of China for all those who understands and read Chinese.

Vietnam was merely a place with many tribes and the Han like the rest of China is the dominant race until today inside Vietnam. Read my former post about the "MALAY" a race that does not existed and you will understand the connection, etc



kecho said:


> China is part of Mongolia Imperial for long time in the past,.


 That is the Western interpretation of the YUAN dynasty with the title conveniently changed. Well, it was the shortest dynasty in the history of China and after its demise, they return back to their former state and the steppe (Mongolia) where these nomadic tribes dwell became China once more.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cochine

CCP said:


> Again, Mongolia is part of China for much longer time.
> 
> BTW, if you think 90 years is a long time, then how about the 1000+ year vietnam under the direct Chinese rule?
> _*"Vietnam was part of Imperial China for over a millennium, from 111 BC to AD 939."
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam*_



No.

After many hundred year China was under direct ruling of Mongolian, China was further under direct ruling of Jurchen people until 1911. And last , Japan has taken China to the Japan Emperial until 1945.


----------



## CCP

kecho said:


> No.
> 
> After many hundred year China was under direct ruling of Mongolian, China was further under direct ruling of Jurchen people until 1911. And last , Japan has taken China to the Japan Emperial until 1945.



NO what?

Ok,your history book must be different to the rest of the world's or can you apply any source of your stories?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

CCP said:


> Ok, your history book is different to the rest of the world or can you apply any source of your stories?



Chinese ancient civilisation unlike the rest wrote and maintained their historical records. Ancient India depends on Vedas, coins and ancient sculptures in temple but they all have one thing in common, the DATE and year.

So to ask for their ancient records meaning pictures written in banana leaves is a TALL ORDER.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## TaiShang

cirr said:


> New CCG vessels
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ready to roll



Good toys to civilly engage VN and PH.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ahojunk

*Interior minister visits Taiping Island, reasserts ROC sovereignty*
Publication Date: August 17, 2016
Source: Taiwan Today






Minister of the Interior Yeh Jiunn-rong led a team of officials and researchers to Taiping Island Aug. 16 to reaffirm the Republic of China’s (Taiwan) sovereignty over the largest naturally formed island in the Nansha (Spratly) Islands.

“As President Tsai Ing-wen stated during the July 19 National Security Council meeting, the ROC remains steadfast on its position that the South China Sea islands are an inherent part of the nation’s territory,” Yeh said during a news conference at the Ministry of the Interior in Taipei City following his one-day trip to Taiping Island.

“The ROC maintains all rights over the South China Sea islands and their surrounding waters in accordance with international law and the U.N. Convention on the Law of the Sea,” he said. “While we will not assert excessive claims, we will also not give up any rights.”

Yeh and the group, which included Coast Guard Administration Minister Lee Chung-wei, Kaohsiung City Deputy Mayor Chen Chin-de and researchers involved in projects overseen by the Ministry of Science and Technology, took part in a large number of activities during the visit. Some of these were meeting with government personnel, inspecting meteorological facilities, touring fruit and vegetable gardens and attaching a new address plate to Nansha Hospital.

According to Yeh, the trip is also part of preparations to transform Taiping Island into a hub of scientific investigation on climate change and marine ecology. “Given its central location in the South China Sea and rich biodiversity, Taiping Island is ideal for conducting long-term atmospheric and marine environmental research and observation.”

The minister said the Central Weather Bureau will set up automatic weather observation and tidal monitoring stations next month, adding that the MOI is working with the MOST and other agencies on sharing this data and seeking international collaboration on related projects.

Other measures in the pipeline, Yeh said, are producing a documentary on the lives of government personnel stationed on Taiping Island and staging a seminar and workshop on the government’s South China Sea policymaking. These are part of a series of events planned to commemorate the 70th anniversary of Taiping Island’s recovery by the ROC. The ROC recovered Taiping Island Dec. 12, 1946, following World War II, and has stationed government personnel there for over 60 years since June 1956.

Taiping Island, with an area of 0.51 square kilometers, can sustain human habitation and an economic life of its own, and meets the criteria of an island as defined in Article 121 of UNCLOS. Therefore, the ROC enjoys full rights associated with territorial waters, a contiguous zone, an exclusive economic zone, and a continental shelf in accordance with UNCLOS. (SFC-E)

Write to Taiwan Today at ttonline@mofa.gov.tw

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cnleio

2016-07-22

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## cnleio

Some unknown structures on the islands (guess for HQ-9 launch-site)

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## hoangsa74

Cnleio. What's the elevation of these islands?


----------



## cochine

PCA award helps resolve East Sea issue
_One month after the Permanent Court of Arbitration (PCA) decided an award on the Philippines’ arbitration proceedings against China on interpretation and application of 1982 UN Convention on Law of Sea, public shows concern over implementation of the ruling._


_



_

_Philippine Foreign Minister Albert del Rosario spoke at the opening session of the trial at the Permanent Court of Arbitration(PCA) in The Hague. _

Although it would take much time and effort for the ruling to be implemented, the public agree that PCA is a legal tool for the East Sea issue in the future.

The arbitral proceedings since the Philippines filed a lawsuit to the Permanent Court of Arbitration in 2013 were in compliance with the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea. 

PCA’s decisions are internationally recognized and legally binding to parties involved in the case.

*Efforts to seek peaceful measures*

The Philippines’ lawsuit against China has not complicated the situation but it aims to resolve disputes by peaceful means without using or threatening to use force in addressing international disputes. 

It shows respect to international law and illustrates the international community’s effort. 

Once countries had discussed and agreed on an international legal framework, they have to adjust their behaviors in dealing with maritime demarcation issues.

The PCA’s ruling is the first of its kind on the East Sea issue. It provides a common interpretation of some contents in the UNCLOS, which were unclear among involved parties, including the structures of features in the Spratly archipelago. 

The interpretation will be a legal foundation to be applicable to similar cases in the future. 

*The feasibility of PCA’s ruling*

Analysts say PCA’s ruling can be realized. Firstly PCA operates in accordance with the UNCLOS and its ruling must be observed. 

The Court does not judge territorial disputes but identifies the legality of the actions and, in some cases, verifies the maritime territorial rights of countries. 

Secondly being members of the UNCLOS, China, the Philippines, and relevant countries are obliged to respect PCA’s decision. 

An individual country will be unable to succeed in maintaining regional peace and stability while it vetoes articles it ratified previously. Lastly China has repeatedly mentioned its “peaceful development” policy. 

So it should not go against the policy which has been pursued by its previous leaderships.

One month after the PCA announced its ruling, China has continuously rejected it as null and void. But there has been no escalation in Beijing’s statements, analysts said. 

2 years ago China escalated its activities in the East Sea including the placing of an oil rig in Vietnam’s Paracel archipelago. Widespread criticism against China and its consequences have made China more cautious. 

Since then there has been no similar incident in the exclusive economic zone (EEZ) of claimants in the East Sea.

*PCA creates an opportunity for negotiation*

Negotiation is the key solution to ease tension. Realizing this fact both China and the Philippines have expressed their willingness to negotiate.

Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte said at his swearing-in ceremony that he would seek a “soft landing” in its East Sea dispute with China. 

The Philippines’ former President Fidel Ramos and China’s former Deputy Foreign Minister Fu Ying met recently but didn’t mention marine disputes in the East Sea such as in Scarborough Shoal and Mischief. 

The meeting focused on the need to engage in dialogue to build trust and ease tension, paving the way for cooperation.

Analysts say it’s innocent to say that the PCA’s ruling in the East Sea would fully stabilize the situation. But the ruling has created an opportunity for countries to sit down for talks. 

It would help countries adjust their behaviors and avoid unilateral actions regardless of international law.

_VOV5_


----------



## cnleio

hoangsa74 said:


> Cnleio. What's the elevation of these islands?


about 0.9m ~ 1.8m elevation over sea-surface ... data read from a Chinese SCS forum.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## hoangsa74

cnleio said:


> about 0.9m ~ 1.8m elevation over sea-surface ... data read from a Chinese SCS forum.


Even if it's 1.8 m or 6 feet; that's still really low. How can these islands sustain their presence when high tide comes or if there is a storm. Not to mention artificial islands tend to sink like the kansai international airport (the airport is 17 ft above sea level).


----------



## cnleio

hoangsa74 said:


> Even if it's 1.8 m or 6 feet; that's still really low. How can these islands sustain their presence when high tide comes or if there is a storm. Not to mention artificial islands tend to sink like the kansai international airport (the airport is 17 ft above sea level).


From 1980s ~ 2000s, photo of China 1-gen to 3-gen navy marines camp on SCS reef ... 0.9m~1.8m elevation that seems okay.










Chinese built digues around whole artificial island

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cochine

*Scholars welcome The Hague ruling for East Vietnam Sea at int’l workshop*

TUOI TRE NEWS

UPDATED : 08/18/2016 16:02 GMT + 7





Vietnamese and international experts at the workshop on the East Vietnam Sea in the south-central city of Nha Trang on August 17, 2016
Tuoi Tre
Judges at the arbitration tribunal in The Hague rejected China's claims to economic rights across large swathes of the East Vietnam Sea in a lawsuit brought by the Philippines.

The scholars emphasized ASEAN’s centrality in building regional security and promoting diplomatic and legal processes in the resolution of differences in the seaway, as per Article 33 of the United Nations Charter.

The bloc should also focus on the full implementation of the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the East Vietnam Sea (DOC) and early conclusion of a Code of Conduct (COC) to open more opportunities for the preservation of peace and stability.

The delegates hoped for the organization of more international seminars on the topic of East Vietnam Sea to extend the network amongst scholars.

They expected to “build public opinions and to make policy recommendations to government agencies, and international organizations with the aim of creating an environment conducive to the maintenance of peace, stability, cooperation, and a legal order based on international law in the [East Vietnam Sea].”


----------



## ahojunk

China opens service center in Xisha
2016-08-05 08:35Global Times_Editor: Li Yan_

*Yongxing island office issues residence permits*

China has opened an administrative service center in its southernmost city in Hainan Province as part of efforts to safeguard the country's sovereignty over the South China Sea and provide more convenience to residents of the islands.

The center opened by Sansha city in Yongxing Island primarily issues residence permits, and will also provide other permits like exit-entry permits to Hong Kong and Macao to cope with the difficulties experienced by island residents in obtaining residence certificates, the China News Service (CNS) reported on Thursday.

Sansha city was officially established in 2012 to administer the Xisha, Zhongsha and Nansha island groups and their surrounding waters in the South China Sea. Its government sits in Yongxing, the largest island of the Xisha chain in the South China Sea.

Temporary residents who work or do business in the city for over 30 days should apply for residence permits, which allow them to apply for public rental housing and use transportation in and out of the island, as well as to register their businesses with industry and commerce departments, CNS reported in 2013.

As for those who apply for household registration in the city, they might be eligible if they have lived there for over two years, with stable and legal jobs, as well as stable residence.

The city issued its first identity cards and residence permits on July 17, 2013.Ten people were given identity cards and another 68 received residence permits. They qualified for social insurance, employment and support for starting a business, medical treatment and education, the Xinhua News Agency reported.

Sansha's infrastructure has significantly improved since 2012, including its transportation, medical and communication facilities.

Commercial flights will soon be available from Yongxing. Two airfields on the island and Yongshu Reef will improve air services in the South China Sea and provide more information on weather conditions, aeronautics, communication, navigation and surveillance, Xinhua reported in March.

Before Sansha was established, only one regular passenger ship connected Yongxing to Hainan Island.

The city added another ship with telephone and Internet access on board. Sansha 1 was added within a year of the city's establishment, doubling the number of regular trips between Sansha and Hainan from two to four a month.

The two passenger ships, along with a law enforcement vessel, function as base stations for mobile communications and have significantly improved wireless access in neighboring areas.

Sansha also provides waste water treatment facilities, garbage collection and transfer stations, and marine environmental monitoring stations.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cochine

*Hanoi seminar spotlights PCA’s East Sea ruling
*
_A seminar was held in Hanoi on August 16, focusing on dissecting the content of the recent ruling of the Permanent Court of Arbitration (PCA) in The Hague, the Netherlands, on the Philippines’s lawsuit against China’s claims in the East Sea._


_



_
.

_*A project constructed illegally by China in Vietnam's Phu Lam Island (Source: scmp.com)*
_

The activity aimed to make it easy for historians to make studies of the advantages and difficulties facing Vietnam in safeguarding national sea and island sovereignty, thus giving relevant advice to Party and State leaders, towards effectuating activities that raise public awareness of national sea and island sovereignty protection and measures to ensure security at sea.

Deputy Foreign Minister Dang Dinh Quy briefed the gathering on the legal concept concerning disputes and types of disputes in the East Sea in accordance with international law, while detailing the contents of the ruling.

According to Tran Viet Thai, Deputy Director of the Strategic Research Institute of the Foreign Ministry, on the legal aspects, the lawsuit has clarified the actions made by China in the East Sea over the last three years, which changed the status quo of the sea.

The lawsuit creates a crucial and permanent foundation for involved parties to define the rights of relevant parties and seek to solve East Sea disputes.

Participants heard that the East Sea dispute is not merely the sovereignty dispute or a regional security-related issue, but about global governance concerning big countries and regulations of international law.

The East Sea issue is just at the stage of conflict management and confidence-building, rather than going to the next stage to determine rights of parties and find the final solution to the issue, Thai said.

_VNA_


----------



## Solomon2

ahojunk said:


> ...Taiping Island, with an area of 0.51 square kilometers, can sustain human habitation and an economic life of its own, and meets the criteria of an island as defined in Article 121 -



... In the Tribunal’s view, the use in Article 121(3) of the term “habitation” includes a qualitative element that is reflected particularly in the notions of settlement and residence that are inherent in that term. The mere presence of a small number of persons on a feature does not constitute permanent or habitual residence there and does not equate to habitation. Rather, the term habitation implies a non-transient presence of persons who have chosen to stay and reside on the feature in a settled manner. Human habitation would thus require all of the elements necessary to keep people alive on the feature, but would also require conditions sufficiently conducive to human life and livelihood for people to inhabit, rather than merely survive on, the feature....

...In the Tribunal’s view, the term “habitation” also generally implies the habitation of the feature by a group or community of persons. No precise number of persons is specified in the Article, but providing the basic necessities for a sole individual would not typically fall within the ordinary understanding of human habitation: humans need company and community over sustained periods of time...*the Tribunal considers that the text of Article 121(3) does not directly indicate the threshold that would separate settled human habitation from the mere presence of humans..*.Article 121(3) provides that “[r]ocks which cannot sustain human habitation or economic life of their own shall have no exclusive economic zone or continental shelf.”...

...The final element of the text of Article 121(3) is the phrase “economic life of their own.” In the Tribunal’s view, two elements of this phrase require consideration...a feature itself (or group of related features) must have the ability to support an independent economic life, without relying predominantly on the infusion of outside resources or serving purely as an object for extractive activities, without the involvement of a local population...

...The Tribunal notes the expert evidence submitted by the Philippines on the limited capacity to be expected of the freshwater lens at Itu Aba, but also notes that these conclusions are predicated in part on the fact that the construction of the airstrip on the feature would have reduced the soil’s capacity to absorb rainwater and regenerate the freshwater lens.614 Ultimately, the Tribunal notes that the freshwater resources of these features, combined presumably with rainwater collection, evidently have supported small numbers of people in the past...

...the Tribunal accepts the point that the capacity for [vegetable] cultivation would be limited and that agriculture on Itu Aba would not suffice, on its own, to support a sizable population...

...For the Tribunal, *the criterion of human habitation is not met by the temporary inhabitation of the Spratly Islands by fishermen, even for extended periods*. As discussed above at paragraph 542, the Tribunal considers human habitation to entail the non-transient inhabitation of a feature by a stable community of people for whom the feature constitutes a home and on which they can remain. This standard is not met by the historical presence of fishermen that appears in the record before the Tribunal. Indeed, the very fact that the fishermen are consistently recorded as being “from Hainan”, or elsewhere, is evidence for the Tribunal that they do not represent the natural population of the Spratlys. Nowhere is there any reference to the fishermen “of Itu Aba”, “of Thitu”, or “of North Danger Reef,” nor is there any suggestion that the fishermen were accompanied by their families. Nor do any of the descriptions of conditions on the features suggest the creation of the shelter and facilities that the Tribunal would expect for a population intending to reside permanently among the islands. Rather, the record indicates a pattern of temporary residence on the features for economic purposes, with the fishermen remitting their profits, and ultimately returning, to the mainland...

...Finally, *the Tribunal does not consider that the military or other governmental personnel presently stationed on the features in the Spratly Islands by one or another of the littoral States suffice to constitute “human habitation” for the purposes of Article 121(3)*. These groups are heavily dependent on outside supply, and it is difficult to see how their presence on any of the South China Sea features can fairly be said to be sustained by the feature itself, rather than by a continuous lifeline of supply and communication from the mainland...

...*The Tribunal sees no indication that anything fairly resembling a stable human community has ever formed on the Spratly Islands*. Rather, the islands have been a temporary refuge and base of operations for fishermen and a transient residence for labourers engaged in mining and fishing. The introduction of the exclusive economic zone was not intended to grant extensive maritime entitlements to small features whose historical contribution to human settlement is as slight as that.* Nor was the exclusive economic zone intended to encourage States to establish artificial populations in the hope of making expansive claims, precisely what has now occurred in the South China Sea. On the contrary, Article 121(3) was intended to prevent such developments and to forestall a provocative and counterproductive effort to manufacture entitlements. *
The Tribunal sees no evidence that would suggest that the historical absence of human habitation on the Spratly Islands is the product of intervening forces or otherwise does not reflect the limited capacity of the features themselves. *Accordingly, the Tribunal concludes that Itu Aba, Thitu, West York, Spratly Island, South-West Cay, and North-East Cay are not capable of sustaining human habitation within the meaning of Article 121(3)* -


----------



## ahojunk

China opens service center in Xisha
2016-08-05 08:35Global Times_Editor: Li Yan_
*
Yongxing island office issues residence permits*

China has opened an administrative service center in its southernmost city in Hainan Province as part of efforts to safeguard the country's sovereignty over the South China Sea and provide more convenience to residents of the islands.

The center opened by Sansha city in Yongxing Island primarily issues residence permits, and will also provide other permits like exit-entry permits to Hong Kong and Macao to cope with the difficulties experienced by island residents in obtaining residence certificates, the China News Service (CNS) reported on Thursday.

Sansha city was officially established in 2012 to administer the Xisha, Zhongsha and Nansha island groups and their surrounding waters in the South China Sea. Its government sits in Yongxing, the largest island of the Xisha chain in the South China Sea.

Temporary residents who work or do business in the city for over 30 days should apply for residence permits, which allow them to apply for public rental housing and use transportation in and out of the island, as well as to register their businesses with industry and commerce departments, CNS reported in 2013.

As for those who apply for household registration in the city, they might be eligible if they have lived there for over two years, with stable and legal jobs, as well as stable residence.

The city issued its first identity cards and residence permits on July 17, 2013.Ten people were given identity cards and another 68 received residence permits. They qualified for social insurance, employment and support for starting a business, medical treatment and education, the Xinhua News Agency reported.

Sansha's infrastructure has significantly improved since 2012, including its transportation, medical and communication facilities.

Commercial flights will soon be available from Yongxing. Two airfields on the island and Yongshu Reef will improve air services in the South China Sea and provide more information on weather conditions, aeronautics, communication, navigation and surveillance, Xinhua reported in March.

Before Sansha was established, only one regular passenger ship connected Yongxing to Hainan Island.

The city added another ship with telephone and Internet access on board. Sansha 1 was added within a year of the city's establishment, doubling the number of regular trips between Sansha and Hainan from two to four a month.

The two passenger ships, along with a law enforcement vessel, function as base stations for mobile communications and have significantly improved wireless access in neighboring areas.

Sansha also provides waste water treatment facilities, garbage collection and transfer stations, and marine environmental monitoring stations.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cochine

Hoàng Sa Islands is part of sea territory of Vietnam from long time ago. Vietnam has been controlled Islands officially, it is accepted by westerner scholars in the past.

This map is printed in Brussels 1827 indicated clearly that Hoang Sa (Paracel Islands) in center of map, is part of Cochin (Jiao Zhi) Vietnam today.



.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cochine

*It is time to rename the South China Sea*




Feeling the current. (Reuters/Erik De Castro)
*SHARE
WRITTEN BY*
Steve Mollman@stevemollman
*OBSESSION*
The Sea
August 22, 2016

For all the complexities of the territorial struggle between China and its neighbors in the South China Sea, there’s a growing recognition that part of the problem is simply the name of the place.

Indonesia became the latest country to propose a renaming last week, when the government announced it will submit a proposal to the United Nations regarding the exclusive economic zone (EEZ) surrounding its Natuna Islands. “If no one objects… then it will be officially the Natuna Sea,” said Ahmad Santosa, who heads an agency combating illegal fishing.

In 2012 the Philippines officially renamed part of the South China Sea on its own maps and government correspondence. Manila declared that waters falling within its EEZ would be called the West Philippine Sea, an important step to clarifying “which portions we claim as ours,” president Benigno Aquino said at the time. The nation submitted its administrative order and an official map to the United Nations.

Of course, getting the international community to go along with a name change is another matter. Government agencies in Manila might use “West Philippine Sea,” but “South China Sea” is still common usage. UN submission or no, “Natuna Sea” might be similarly ignored outside of Indonesian government circles.

Vietnam, for its part, has long called the waterway the East Sea. Malaysia goes with South China Sea, although after the tribunal’s ruling some are questioning why that is.

China claims nearly all the strategic waterway as its own territory, based on a nine-dash line drawn up after World War 2. Though an international tribunal invalidated the line in a July ruling, Beijing continues to uphold its expansive claims.




A contested sea.
A Change.org campaign started about five years ago that proposes a name change to the “Southeast Asia Sea” brings up some interesting points. Among them:

The countries of Southeast Asia encompass almost the entire South China Sea with a total coastline measuring approximately 130,000 km (81,250 miles) long; whereas the Southern China’s coastline measured about 2,800 km (1,750 miles) in length.

Other proposals have included the “Indochina Sea” and the “Asean Sea,” though that last one bumps into the problem of Cambodia, a member of ASEAN, siding more with China (and earning Beijing’s appreciation along the way).

The sea has had a variety of names throughout history, with “South China Sea” being a relatively recent invention (paywall), coming into use in the 1930s as a way to distinguish the waterway from the East China Sea.

China can play the name game, too. In the Chinese language, the sea is called simply Nanhai, or the South Sea. Some have proposed renaming the southern Hainan Province, which faces the sea, to “Nanhai Province.” Proponents contend the name change would help fortify China’s claims to the sea.

In English, changing the name of the sea to “South Sea” might work, argued Ellen Frost, a senior adviser at the East-West Center, earlier this year. Chinese nationalists would surely reject the “Southeast Asia Sea,”she noted (pdf). But they’d have a harder time arguing against the “South Sea”—even though it removes “China”—since in Chinese the name “Nanhai” has been around for centuries.

That change, she contended, “would signal a small, seemingly technical, but meaningful contribution to peace.”

http://qz.com/763161/it-is-time-to-rename-the-south-china-sea/

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TaiShang

cnleio said:


> Some unknown structures on the islands (guess for HQ-9 launch-site)
> 
> View attachment 327739
> View attachment 327740
> View attachment 327741
> View attachment 327742
> View attachment 327748
> View attachment 327749
> View attachment 327750
> View attachment 327751



Very nice pace of development.

As for the mysterious structures; that's to increase the suspense and make life more interesting.

But, joke aside, I guess, those structures have to do with the upcoming South China Sea ADIZ.

China is building up capability, which requires time, money, expertise and logistics.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cnleio

TaiShang said:


> Very nice pace of development.
> 
> As for the mysterious structures; that's to increase the suspense and make life more interesting.
> 
> But, joke aside, I guess, those structures have to do with the upcoming South China Sea ADIZ.
> 
> China is building up capability, which requires time, money, expertise and logistics.


Chinese will put something on islands to protect those 3,000m-long runways, also need them to protect ADIZ.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cochine

*ASEAN dialogue post tribunal ruling on East Sea dispute*
_
The Jakarta based Habibie Centre hosted the 36th Talking ASEAN Dialogue post The Hague tribunal’s ruling on the East Sea dispute, in the Indonesian capital city on July 26._

On July 12, the Permanent Court of Arbitration (PCA) in The Hague, the Netherlands, issued its ruling on a case brought by the Philippines against China’s nine-dash line claim in the East Sea, saying China’s claims to historic rights for waters within the nine-dash line are contrary to the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea. The tribunal also found no legal basis for China to claim historic rights to resources within the nine-dash line.

The talk was the first of scholars and experts from major research centres and institutes of Indonesia and the country’s Foreign Ministry to define the consequences of the ruling on regional stability, as well as post-ruling challenges and opportunities for the central role of ASEAN in maintaining peace and stability in the region.

Siswo Pramono, Director General and Head of the Foreign Ministry’s Policy Analysis and Development Agency, said that ASEAN member states have to date issued their particular statements on the PCA ruling which all emphasised the need to exercise self-restraint, avoid tense actions, and conduct actions in accordance with international law and ASEAN’s legal standards.

He also affirmed that the ruling will have certain effects on the ASEAN Economic Community, the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) agreement and the region’s security situation.

Vietnamese Ambassador to Indonesia Hoang Anh Tuan said that all parties involved are keeping a close watch on the ruling’s effects, so as to have appropriate responses.

Participants agreed that this is a final and legally-binding ruling, whose results depend much on the relevant parties, as there is no common mechanism to enforce it.

_VNA_


----------



## Viet

TaiShang said:


> Very nice pace of development.
> 
> As for the mysterious structures; that's to increase the suspense and make life more interesting.
> 
> But, joke aside, I guess, those structures have to do with the upcoming South China Sea ADIZ.
> 
> China is building up capability, which requires time, money, expertise and logistics.





cnleio said:


> Chinese will put something on islands to protect those 3,000m-long runways, also need them to protect ADIZ.


I hear the threat China declaring ADIZ since a time. several questions:

- how large will it cover? will it cover the airspace within 9 dash?
- how will China enforce it?
- how will China respond if Vietnam declares ADIZ covering the entire East Sea, with radars, air assets including missiles?

- Vietnam ADIZ will overlap with China in big parts. How to avoid confrontations?

you should keep in mind it is not a one-way game.

http://nationalinterest.org/feature/how-vietnam-can-stop-the-south-china-sea-adiz-16474


----------



## hoangsa74

Vit konk can declair adiz if they want but would they dare to shoot down chinese plane? The answer is no. Chinese otoh shot down viet su30 and casa plane with impunity via electronic warfare or missiles. Thats the reason why viet refused help from airbus for help to investigate the crash of casa plane. R u kidding me? Vit konk can't produce anything properly n now they act like they can investigate a plane crash on their own?


----------



## cochine

SU 30 is here. where is called " Spratly"





http://trandaiquang.org/nghe-chuyen-mot-chuyen-bay-ra-truong-sa-cua-su-30.html


----------



## ahojunk

Commentary: China-Vietnam maritime cooperation sets example for handling South China Sea disputes
Source: Xinhua 2016-08-26 22:01:00

BEIJING, Aug. 26 (Xinhua) -- Maritime cooperation between China and Vietnam has set an example for handling South China Sea disputes.

The coast guards of China and Vietnam on Friday held their first working meeting during which they signed a conference summary.

Friday's meeting is a key step in enhancing bilateral maritime cooperation between China and Vietnam, which, since 1992, have been negotiating the demarcation of territorial waters in the Beibu Gulf -- a half-closed bay surrounded by Chinese and Vietnamese territory and a traditional fishing area for the two countries.

Maritime cooperation has particularly been deepened since the two countries signed the Beibu Gulf Demarcation Agreement and the Beibu Gulf Fishery Cooperation Agreement in 2000.

China and Vietnam have also conducted joint patrols and joint oil exploration in Beibu Gulf in the past few years.

In December 2015, the two countries launched a joint inspection in which Chinese and Vietnamese experts have inspected the terrain and geological conditions outside the mouth of the Beibu Gulf.

Since the Beibu Gulf Fishery Cooperation Agreement took effect in 2000, by the end of 2013, China has handled more than 300 fishing disputes, rescued more than 440 fishing boats in distress, investigated several hundred cases such as maritime theft and smuggling, as well as repelled some illegal foreign fishing boats, according to China's Maritime Safety Administration.

Through joint inspection, China and Vietnam have established a platform for smooth communication, which has created a harmonious and stable environment for their fishing sectors and enhanced the mutual trust and exchanges between their maritime law enforcement departments.

The success story of maritime cooperation between China and Vietnam shows that both countries are committed to solving their maritime differences via cooperation instead of confrontation, which will produce win-win results for the two parties.

In fact, Beijing has been calling on related parties to peacefully solve territorial disputes in the South China Sea through direct negotiations.

Any act that is intended to illegally occupy Chinese territories using the influence of some outsiders or coercing international courts are doomed to failure.

In order to make the South China Sea a sea of peace, friendship and cooperation, China and members of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations have been endeavoring to implement the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea, and striving for the signing of a full code of conduct in the waters as soon as possible. This is the correct path that related parties should take.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cochine

ast update 10:04 | 13/08/2016
 0


*ASEAN aims for East Sea code
*
_VietNamNet Bridge – Foreign Affairs Deputy Minister Le Hoai Trung speaks to the press about the role of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) in resolving the simmering East Sea (South China Sea) dispute._









*How is ASEAN handling the East Sea dispute so far, in your opinion?*

ASEAN has reached a consensus on the East Sea dispute, one of which is that maintaining peace, stability and co-operation in the East Sea plays a key and inseparable role for peace, stability and co-operation in the whole Southeast Asia region.

The East Sea, therefore, is in the mutual interests of all ASEAN member nations and even of the international community, judging from its geographical strategic location for global transportation, the economy and security, both for countries inside and outside the region.

As a matter of fact, the East Sea is deemed by governments, researchers and the media as one of the places most significantly at risk of conflict, as there have been tensions concerning the international community.

And the second consensus of ASEAN regarding the principle to resolve the East Sea dispute is that all countries have to abide by international law, including the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) 1982. Particularly, parties must not resort to threat or use of force, but only dialogues and other peaceful means to resolve their disputes.

ASEAN and China have to effectively follow the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea (DOC), of which there are three key contents. Item number four is about peaceful dispute resolution principles, while numbers five and six, respectively, are about exercising self-restraint to avoid the escalation of disputes and further co-operation towards establishing a Code of Conduct (COC) in the East Sea.

ASEAN’s task is determining how to bring about measures that both ASEAN and China can carry out together to more effectively implement the DOC. The DOC is just a non-binding principle and ASEAN wants to negotiate with China to reach the COC, which is legally binding between signed parties. That would help to further sustain peace, stability and co-operation in the East Sea.

*Has the work on the COC achieved any practical progress so far?*

ASEAN nations really want to advance to the next stage of negotiations, but unfortunately, the COC so far is still at the consultation level.

The countries have exchanged their views on the new elements of a potential COC since last year, but ASEAN countries and Viet Nam in particular are hoping that all parties can further discuss a framework for the COC.

We also want to have a specific schedule - for example, trying to set the targets of what we can achieve in 2017 and a detailed working agenda on the COC. The exchange of views is a good start, but ASEAN is looking forward to taking one step closer to the COC.

*Some ASEAN countries have expressed thoughts different to the rest of ASEAN regarding the East Sea dispute. Are such differences challenging the solidarity of ASEAN?*

I have to state again that ASEAN considers the East Sea dispute a matter of common interest and agreed to find a peaceful solution to the dispute and to strengthen co-operation via a variety of forums and mechanisms in diplomacy, defence and maritime law enforcement co-operation, as well as the DOC and the COC.

However, it is true that some differences remain. ASEAN is an intergovernmental organisation and its members joined on a voluntary basis for the sake of their national interests. It is understandable that a country only participated in ASEAN when its interests matched those of the organisation. Yet when it became a member, it also agreed to uphold a common cause. This is not applied to ASEAN only, but to any other international organisation.

We should be reminded of how confrontations in Southeast Asia in the 60s and 70s have badly damaged the countries involved. ASEAN now is actually an opportunity to prevent such kind of tensions and conflicts from being repeated again.

A united and strong ASEAN is in the long-term interests of its partners. ASEAN is an element to promote regional peace, stability and co-operation, which will consequently be weakened if that element is undermined.

But ASEAN is also alike other international organisations like the United Nations or the European Union in terms of how its outside partners always want to pressure them when it comes to their interests and issues they care about.

If ASEAN is divided during this difficult period, some members will have to choose other partners.

The solidarity of ASEAN is what helps promote the position of each member country, and allows them to be more independent and have their own voice on issues with less dependence on the outside. A weakened ASEAN will force some members to seek new partners because they can’t rely on ASEAN for what it has initially brought to them any longer. The differences between the members will increase and there will be more risks of tensions and confrontations in the region.

ASEAN’s consensus principle is even more needed during times of differences because all member countries will get to discuss as a group rather than just in bilateral meetings.

But the bottom line here is that ASEAN members should have a long-term vision to see that a strong ASEAN is in their own interests.

As one ASEAN foreign minister said, we will all have to pay for what was not done right.


----------



## ahojunk

_More drills between Russia and China, this time in the SCS._

--------
*Russia-China South China Sea drills to be held on September 12-19*
August 22, 2016 ALEXANDER KORABLINOV, RBTH
Cultural events will also be held within the framework of the drills.

Russia and China have agreed to hold their planned joint drills in the South China on September 12-19, Vladimir Matveyev, a spokesman for the Russian Navy’s Pacific Fleet told TASS on August 22. *Sporting and cultural events will also be held within the framework of the drills*, he added.

Matveyev said the exercises would focus on organized efforts to protect merchant ships in the South China Sea. There will also be landings on islands, he added.

In July, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Yang Yujun said the drills were “not directed against third countries.”

However, some Chinese analysts have interpreted Russia’s willingness to take part in the exercises as an endorsement of Chinese claims in South China Sea maritime territorial disputes.

Earlier in August, the Sydney Morning Herald reported that Australia is likely to have military assets in the South China Sea to gather vital intelligence on the Sino-Russian drills.

The paper cited an anonymous defense source as saying that assets were expected to be used to collect information.

Information from a Kommersant report was used in this article

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cochine

Maritime security issues generate challenges, opportunities in Asia
_An international symposium took place at Shangri-La Hotel in Jakarta, Indonesia, on August 22 to look into maritime security in Asia, along with challenges and opportunities for peace, stability and sustainability. _


_



_


At the three panel discussions, scholars analysed current maritime security challenges, especially in the East Sea where China has ramped up activities threatening peace, security and stability in the region. 

They underscored the need to comply with the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea so as to resolve sea-related security challenges, thereby helping maintain peace, stability and sustainable development. 

Many opinions shared the view that as ASEAN is an important stakeholder in the East Sea issue, the bloc’s member nations should promote their cooperation and optimise such frameworks as the ASEAN Regional Forum and the ASEAN Defence Ministers’ Meeting. 

They called on the regional countries to actively settle East Sea disputes through peaceful negotiations, which will also help ASEAN affirm its central role and growing stature in the world. 

At the symposium, participants also talked about ASEAN cooperation in fisheries, disaster prevention, navigation and customs. 

The event was held following The Hague tribunal’s ruling on the East Sea-related lawsuit filed by the Philippines against China. 

Arif Havas Oegroseno, Indonesia’s Deputy Coordinating Minister for Maritime Affairs and Resources, told Vietnam News Agency that ASEAN nations which are involved in East Sea disputes need to take stronger actions by making clear commitments on conduct in the waters. 

Sea-related matters are mentioned in legal documents, and countries who violate them can be sued if they are parties to commitments stated in international law on the sea, he added.

_VNA_


----------



## hoangsa74

*Vietnam's Fishermen Stranded After Toxic Spill Destroys An Industry

*
The toxic spill that devastated the marine environment in four central Vietnamese provinces earlier this year has also ripped the livelihood from some 200,000 people – local fishermen and their families.

Most of these coastal areas were recently deemed to be safe for swimming, but at the moment authorities are still debating about how and where commercial fishing activities can resume.

The Ministry of Agriculture announced on August 27 it was looking at four options restricting the areas available for fishing. These ranged from a ban on fishing within 10 nautical miles of the coast along the entirety of the four provinces, a 20 nautical mile ban only in certain areas, or allowing the resumption of commercial fishing everywhere apart from three sites deemed to still be too polluted.

The ministry said it was also continuing to beef up spot checks of catches in other areas to test for any contamination of seafood. However, health authorities in the country are still warning people it is not safe to eat seafood from the central coast region. It’s estimated that total seafood catches have fallen by around 1,600 tons per month.

Formosa Ha Tinh Steel, the operator of the plant that was the source of the spill, has already paid the first half of a $500 million fine, with the balance due to be handed over in the coming weeks. Much of the money, in addition to paying for continued clean-up and monitoring of the affected areas, is meant to go to compensate fishermen and their families.

There has been little in the way of details about how exactly these funds will be dispersed, with local and provincial authorities tasked do draw up plans and submit them to the central government. There has been some mention of a portion of the funds be used to retrain fishermen for jobs in other industries.

This is going to be a difficult task to accomplish. These are communities and families that have been fishing for generations. Perhaps they can work in the steel mill? Time will tell how the fishing industry recovers, but the damage to the reputation of the quality of Vietnamese seafood may be irreparably damaged.

------------------------------------
http://www.forbes.com/sites/davisbr...oxic-spill-destroys-an-industry/#3848caf3a107


No more eez, no more fish. no more fishermen's presence at sea. this plays well into china's strategy.


----------



## cochine

Tue Aug 30, 2016 3:00am EDT

*Philippines says China must recognize South China Sea ruling*





A Philippine flag flutters from BRP Sierra Madre, a dilapidated Philippine Navy ship that has been aground since 1999 and became a Philippine military detachment on the disputed Second Thomas Shoal, part of the Spratly Islands, in the South China Sea March 29, 2014. Picture... REUTERS/Erik De Castro

*China will be the "loser" if it does not recognize an international court ruling against its territorial claims in the South China Sea, Philippine Foreign Minister Perfecto Yasay said on Tuesday.*

An arbitration court in The Hague infuriated China in July when it ruled that China had no historical title over the South China Sea and it had breached the Philippines' sovereign rights.

China has ignored the ruling that none of its claims in the disputed Spratly Islands entitled it to a 200-mile (320 km) exclusive economic zone. Its construction work on reefs there has alarmed other claimants, as well the United States and Japan.

"We are trying to make China understand especially when the dust settles that unless they respect and recognize the arbitral tribunal, they will be the losers at the end of that day on this matter," Yasay told a congressional hearing.

Prior to starting bilateral talks, the Philippines plans to seal a deal for China to allow Philippine fishermen to access the resource-rich waters, Yasay said.

China seized Scarborough Shoal in 2012, denying Philippine fishermen access, one of the factors that prompted Manila to seek arbitration.

"When we start formal negotiations or bilateral engagements with China, we will have to do it within the context of the arbitral decision. There are no buts or ifs insofar as our policy on this matter is concerned," Yasay said.

*ALSO IN SOUTH CHINA SEA*

Philippines says sea dispute not led to shift in ties with China or U.S.
Philippines' Duterte says talks with China on sea dispute 'within the year'
Philippines gets first coastguard boat from Japan to boost security


----------



## cochine

Langkasukan said:


> You can call and remind them to honor international law .. but, what can you do if China don;t want to listen you? ...



Key item here for us is that: China is loser an arbitration court in The Hague


----------



## cochine

Langkasukan said:


> Legality is not a key issue for any "super power' ..... most important is who are "effectively control"... .



illegally is meaningless.


----------



## bobsm

27.08.2016 Author: Tony Cartalucci
*US “International Court” Ruling on China Falls Short*


A recent “international tribunal” ruling regarding China’s claims in the South China Sea was more than just anticlimactic – it was indicative of the United States’ waning influence as well as the waning legitimacy of the many international institutions it has used, abused, and thus undermined for decades.

The New York Times in an article titled, “Tribunal Rejects Beijing’s Claims in South China Sea,” would claim:

_An international tribunal in The Hague delivered a sweeping rebuke on Tuesday of China’s behavior in the South China Sea, including its construction of artificial islands, and found that its expansive claim to sovereignty over the waters had no legal basis._

_The landmark case, brought by the Philippines, was seen as an important crossroads in China’s rise as a global power and in its rivalry with the United States, and it could force Beijing to reconsider its assertive tactics in the region or risk being labeled an international outlaw. It was the first time the Chinese government had been summoned before the international justice system._

Despite the NYT’s claims that the case was _“brought by the Philippines,”_ it was in fact headed by an American lawyer, Paul S. Reichler, of US-based law firm, Foley Hoag. Just like the court case itself, the apparent conflict in the South China Sea may be portrayed as being between China and its neighbors, but it is in reality a conflict cultivated by the US explicitly as a means of maintaining _“primacy in Asia.”_

*Facing Threats to “US Primacy in Asia”*

The corporate-financier funded and directed policy think tank, the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) published a paper titled, “Revising U.S. Grand Strategy Toward China,” penned by Robert Blackwill – a Bush-era administrator and lobbyist who has directly participated in Washington’s attempts to maintain hegemony over Asia.

Blackwill’s paper states clearly what interests the US has in Asia (emphasis added):

_Because the American effort to ‘integrate’ China into the liberal international order has now generated new threats _*to U.S. primacy in Asia*_—and could result in a consequential challenge to American power globally—Washington needs a new grand strategy toward China that centers on balancing the rise of Chinese power rather than continuing to assist its ascendancy._

The CFR paper constitutes a US policymaker openly admitting that the US perceives itself as possessing and seeking to maintain “primacy in Asia,” primacy being defined by Merriam-Webster as, _“the state of being most important or strongest.”_

The notion that the United States, from an entire ocean away from Asia, should proclaim itself “the most important or strongest” nation in Asia is in itself every bit in reality a threat to intentional peace and stability as the US claims Chinese primacy in Asia would be.

*The South China Sea “Conflict” as a Pretext*

More specifically, Blackwill would mention the South China Sea conflict as the primary pretext with which to further tighten American control over an Asia the paper admits is slipping away.

The paper then enumerates a list of self-serving measures the US should take predicated on the alleged conflict, which include:


_Defense reform within the Armed Forces of the Philippines to develop a full range of defense capabilities that would enable the government to deter and prevent intrusions on or possible invasion of Philippine territory;_
_Boost Indonesia’s role in joint exercises and expand its scope, symbolically indicative of Jakarta’s growing centrality to security in the Asia Pacific, and gear military aid, training, and joint exercises with Indonesia toward air-sea capabilities; _
_Help Singapore upgrade its current air force capabilities from F-16s to F-35s;_
_encourage Malaysia to fully participate in the Proliferation Security Initiative, which it agreed to join in April 2014, and promote more active Malaysian involvement in combined exercises, domain awareness architectures, and the like; _
_Seek to expand the scope of activities during the annual U.S.-Vietnam naval exercises to include joint humanitarian assistance and disaster relief, and/or search and rescue exercises, and make more frequent stops at the port at Cam Ranh Bay in the short term; _
_Establish strategic International Military Exchange Training (IMET) programs with Myanmar, with a focus on professionalizing the military, and continue to integrate the Myanmar military into, and _
_Expand its participation in, joint international military exercises; _
_Advocate substantial IMET expansion throughout Southeast Asia; _
_Help build domestic democratic political capacity throughout the region. _
It is clear that this sweeping military expansion the US proposes not only lends to the United States unwarranted influence over the military forces, governments, and very sovereignty of each respective Southeast Asian state, but includes the transparently self-serving requirement of purchasing immense amount of US weapons to threaten China with. In fact, Blackwill openly suggests Singapore’s F-16s be upgraded to the scandal-ridden, grossly overpriced F-35.

The paper, 70 pages in total, expounds in immense detail this, the latest chapter in Washington’s decades-long effort to encircle and contain China.

It is clear then why the US took the Philippines by the hand to the Hague for its court case against China.

*An International Tribunal Not Internationally Recognized *

While the US media attempted to stampede public opinion with the supposed gravity of the tribunal’s decision, it was met by silence worldwide.

China outright rejected the entire proceeding before the ruling was even read, while other nations in Southeast Asia have continued drawing closer still in economic, political, and military cooperation with China.

Thailand, the second largest economy in Southeast Asia’s ASEAN bloc, has recently announced its intentions to buy up to 100 VT-4 main battle tanks from China and has continued exploring the possibility of purchasing several Chinese-made diesel electric submarines. Many of the trains now running in Thailand are Chinese-made as will be new rail lines built across the country. Thailand has also begun conducting joint-military exercises with China to rebalance its fading relationship with the United States.

Thailand, along with other Southeast Asian nations have insisted that they have no stake in the South China Sea dispute, and have refused categorically to take sides in it despite pressure from each nation’s respective US ambassador. Beyond Asia, Europe too has refused to intervene, and failed to decisively recognize the tribunal’s recent ruling.

Reuters in its article, “Discord over South China Sea clouds Asia-Europe summit,” would report that:

_A key summit between Asian and European leaders in Mongolia ended on Saturday without direct mention of the South China Sea dispute in its closing statement, with diplomats describing intense discord over the issue between Europe and Asia._

It would also add that:

_On Friday, the European Union issued a statement noting China’s legal defeat but avoided direct reference to Beijing, reflecting discord among EU governments over how strongly to respond to the court ruling._

One must wonder then, just how “international” a tribunal is, whose ruling is not recognized internationally.

*International Tribunal Serves US, Not Philippine Interests *

Even in the Philippines, whose name the case was brought to the tribunal in, reactions were muted, with the newly elected president, Rodrigo Duterte, calling for calm in the aftermath of the ruling. The Financial Times in its article, “Duterte calls for calm as SE Asia grapples with sea ruling,” would state:
_[President Duterte’s] call for peaceful talks instead, echoed across Southeast Asia, highlights the region’s difficult position following this week’s international tribunal ruling at The Hague. Several countries in the 10-member Association of Southeast Asian Nations have territorial quarrels with Beijing, but none want to spark an unwinnable war or alienate a superpower to which they are tied by aid, trade or cultural affinities._

In other words, the ruling and the expected confrontation the US had hoped to spark, benefits Southeast Asia in no shape, form, or way and despite the considerable influence the United States still holds over the Philippines, it is apparent that the will for peace, prosperity, and progress is more considerable still.

Indeed, according to Harvard University’s Atlas of Economic Complexity, the Philippines’ leading trade partner is China, with 26% of its exports and 19% of its imports accounted for amid the two nations’ economic ties. The United States on the other hand, accounts for only 12% of the Philippines exports, and 9% of all imports. It is upon Asia, by far, that the Philippines economy depends – an Asia enjoying peace and stability. And it is this peace and stability that is directly threatened by America’s openly declared plan to militarize the region and confront China.

It is clear that America’s closest allies in the region are disinterested in confronting China, and while the US emphasizes the need to confront Chinese “coercion,” it is clear that the United States has resorted to coercion itself to punish nations unwilling to help it uphold its “primacy in Asia.”

While the US is sure to resort to an array of punitive measures against the Philippines, as well as the rest of Southeast Asia for failing to enable its “primacy in Asia,” one thing is certain. An “international tribunal” the entire world fails to recognize is no longer “international.” The irrelevance of the US-backed tribunal is a harbinger of what’s to come for the “international order” itself that the US poses as head of.

One only hopes that China has paid careful attention to the brutal, bloody, and shameful spread of American hegemony, and its now ignominious retreat – and decides to take another path on its way toward global power – one that bypasses aspirations for global hegemony, and one that instead arrives at leading by example. For Southeast Asia’s part, ensuring their economies, societies, and armed forces remain strong and vigilant, can help guide China toward that destination peacefully and without temptation.

http://journal-neo.org/2016/08/27/us-international-court-ruling-on-china-falls-short/

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## terranMarine

When Vietnam threatened to file a U.N. arbitration claim against China in mid-2014 as maritime tensions flared, China responded by freezing credit lines for ongoing Vietnamese energy and infrastructure projects, forcing some projects into restructuring and leaving others stranded. China also choked off tourism, depriving Vietnam of its largest single tourist market. China's message was clear: the costs of challenging China’s maritime claims are literally too high for Vietnam to afford thus Vietnam decided not to file the claim at last minute. Now after witnessing the aftermath of the case filed by the "Philippines" which turned out the US was the mastermind behind all of this containment game, it has become clear to Vietnam the option of challenging China not only does it not achieve a thing (let alone a decisive victory) to start with the instigator also has to pay a huge price for such a disastrous political move (be it the 30 mln dollar fees covering the whole circus show or the economic blunder with the biggest trading nation). The prospect of filling another arbitration case by the Philippines or any other SEA countries who has territorial issues with the Dragon does not look all too promising.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Yuyukangkang

Langkasukan said:


> Legality is not a key issue for any "super power' ..... most important is who are "effectively control"... .



I agree ... de facto surpass de jure ..., we've been learn harshly about this things. That's why our gov tried to put hammer and anvil in Natuna, still far from enough tough.


----------



## cochine

terranMarine said:


> When Vietnam threatened to file a U.N. arbitration claim against China in mid-2014 as maritime tensions flared, China responded by freezing credit lines for ongoing Vietnamese energy and infrastructure projects, forcing some projects into restructuring and leaving others stranded. China also choked off tourism, depriving Vietnam of its largest single tourist market. China's message was clear: the costs of challenging China’s maritime claims are literally too high for Vietnam to afford thus Vietnam decided not to file the claim at last minute. Now after witnessing the aftermath of the case filed by the "Philippines" which turned out the US was the mastermind behind all of this containment game, it has become clear to Vietnam the option of challenging China not only does it not achieve a thing (let alone a decisive victory) to start with the instigator also has to pay a huge price for such a disastrous political move (be it the 30 mln dollar fees covering the whole circus show or the economic blunder with the biggest trading nation). The prospect of filling another arbitration case by the Philippines or any other SEA countries who has territorial issues with the Dragon does not look all too promising.



its disclosed true mentality of China.


----------



## terranMarine

kecho said:


> its disclosed true mentality of China.


you mad?  don't be like the rest of the Viets writing few words. If you have something to share go ahead but don't be such a sad Viet only using verbal insults

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cochine

terranMarine said:


> you mad?  don't be like the rest of the Viets writing few words. If you have something to share go ahead but don't be such a sad Viet only using verbal insults



telling the truth, not insults, we do know what is china's dream.


----------



## terranMarine

kecho said:


> telling the truth, not insults, we do know what is china's dream.


It's good to know that you know what China's dream is, but do you know what Vietnam's dream is?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cochine

terranMarine said:


> It's good to know that you know what China's dream is, but do you know what Vietnam's dream is?



to be friend of ordinary, normal Chinese people.


----------



## ahojunk

*South China Sea: Did the ruling sink the rule of law?*
Tan Keng Tat for The Straits Times
Published AUG 31, 2016, 5:00 AM SGT

*Eight reasons why the tribunal ruling was troubling, especially the decision that turned Taiping Island into a "rock" devoid of its own exclusive economic zone.*

On July 12, an arbitral tribunal, constituted under Annex VII of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (Unclos), ruled in favour of the Philippines at the Permanent Court of Arbitration at the Hague (PCA).

The tribunal made a landmark decision that, as between the Philippines and China, there was no legal basis for China to claim historic rights to resources, in excess of the rights provided for by Unclos, within the "nine-dash" line map that China has been using to assert its claims of sovereignty over territories in the South China Sea.

The tribunal also ruled, inter alia, that China had infringed on the Philippines' rights to fish stocks and resources within its 200-nautical-mile exclusive economic zone (EEZ).

China rejected the tribunal's ruling as null and void on substantive and procedural grounds.

*Professor Myron Nordquist, of the University of Virginia School of Law, has opined that the ruling was a "huge mistake" and should be "criticised severely"*.

In my view as a private researcher who has researched the issue for years, the tribunal's ruling was also weighed down by a litany of controversies as there were eight troubling issues arising from the ruling.

First, some media reports wrongly attributed the ruling to a UN-backed PCA to elevate its impact but that ended when UN spokesman Stephane Dujarric confirmed that *the PCA "has nothing to do with the UN"*. He added: "The UN doesn't have a position on the legal and procedural merits of the South China Sea arbitration case."

*The PCA is not a court.* It only provides a registry and secretarial assistance to "arbitral tribunals constituted to resolve specific disputes" for a fee.

*Second is the question of sovereignty.* In the 1887 Sino-Franco Convention, France agreed that all the isles east of the Treaty Delimitation Line were assigned to China. That included the Spratly Islands, among others. France attempted to occupy the Spratlys in 1930. China protested and reminded France of the 1887 convention.

In 1933, colonial Philippines contemplated annexing the Spratlys, but then US Secretary of State Cordell Hull cautioned that "the islands of the Philippine group which the United States acquired from Spain by the treaty of 1898, were only those within the limits described in Article III". He added: "It may be observed that no mention has been found of Spain having exercised sovereignty over, or having laid claim to, any of these (Spratly) islands."

Japan invaded China in 1937. In the fog of war, France occupied the Spratlys in 1938. Japan evicted the French and colonised the Spratlys in 1939.

After its defeat, Japan ceded its claim to the Spratlys, returning them to China.

*According to Professor John Anthony Carty, British archives show that "there is no dispute regarding the Nansha (Spratly) Islands and that China is the sole title-holder."*

Yet the tribunal ruled that Mischief Reef and Second Thomas Shoal lie in the EEZ of the Philippines, effectively awarding these two features to the Philippines.

How a pre-Unclos reef and shoal owned by China could be "awarded" to the Philippines this year by a tribunal was never convincingly explained. Unclos is only the law of the sea and it has no power to award any littoral state with sovereignty or extinguish its pre-existing sovereignty over any territory. Third is the issue of jurisdiction. The tribunal had no jurisdiction on matters involving maritime delimitation or historic titles, already excluded by a declaration by China in 2006, pursuant to Article 298 (1)(a).

Yet the tribunal ruled that China's historic rights were "extinguished by the entry into force of Unclos in 1994".

This begs the question: Why would China bother to ratify Unclos in 1996 if by doing so its historic rights were extinguished? Why not defer ratification indefinitely like the United States did?

Also, under Article 288(1), the tribunal's jurisdiction was limited to only disputes concerning the interpretation and application of Unclos.

The Philippines asserted that:

The Scarborough Shoal generates no exclusive economic zone.
Five reefs are high-tide elevations.
Two reefs are low-tide elevations.
The International Court of Justice (ICJ) held in 1962, in the South West Africa cases, that to prove the existence of a dispute, it "must be shown that the claim of one party is positively opposed by the other".

Mr Alberto Encomienda, former secretary-general of the then Maritime and Ocean Affairs Centre of the Philippine Foreign Affairs Department, told China's news agency Xinhua that "China has been for the negotiations all along, but from the beginning we are not".

Since no substantive negotiation between China and the Philippines took place, there could not be any dispute. The tribunal's ruling on these assertions could be ultra vires (beyond legal power), thus null and void.

*Fourth is the question of bias*. The rule against bias has to be strictly applied because justice must not only be done but must be seen to be done.

The Philippines appointed one member of the five-member tribunal. Since China did not participate in the proceedings, four members were appointed by Mr Shunji Yanai, a Japanese judge who was president of the International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea at the material time.

Judge Chris Pinto from Sri Lanka was originally appointed, but since his wife is from the Philippines he gracefully resigned to avoid any controversy.

The Chinese media have voiced a reasonable suspicion that none of the arbitrators were China- friendly. They also pointed out that Mr Yanai is a right-wing nationalist who is a close adviser to Japan's Prime Minister Shinzo Abe and should have recused himself, as Japan has a serious territorial dispute with China over the Diaoyu/Senkaku islands.

*Fifth is the issue of reclamation on disputed features*. The tribunal rebuked China for reclaiming land in reefs it considers its own. But according to Mr Encomienda, the Philippines "was the first to do reclamation in the South China Sea, so we cannot demonise China for reclamation". He revealed that their airfield situated on China's Zhongye Island, which the Philippines now occupies, "was built on top of live coral reefs".

*Sixth, the tribunal rebuked China for blocking supplies from reaching some Philippine sailors staking a claim on Second Thomas Shoal by grounding a ship*. But this shoal was itself one of eight features annexed by then President Ferdinand Marcos on June 11, 1978, using presidential decree No. 1596, which violated the United Nations Charter. That decree created the Kalayaan Island Group, whose boundary illegally extended over the Spratlys.

*Seventh is the issue of conflict of interest over the tribunal's ruling on islands and rocks*.

The Philippines' gambit was that no feature in the Spratlys could generate a 200-nautical-mile EEZ and therefore there is no overlapping of its own EEZ.

The tribunal stated that its jurisdiction over some of the Philippines' claims was barred "if a feature claimed by China in the South China Sea were found to be an island, entitled to a 200-nautical- mile EEZ".

In 2012, in the case of Nicaragua v Colombia, the ICJ ruled that an island was defined "by reference to whether it is 'naturally formed' and whether it is above water at high tide and would generate a (12-nautical-mile) territorial sea", and to qualify for a 200-nautical-mile EEZ, "it would need to be able to sustain human habitation or economic life on its own" under Article 121(3) of Unclos.

*Taiping Island, occupied by Taiwan since 1946, is a naturally formed, 480,000-sq-m island which is able to sustain human habitation or economic life on its own as it has plenty of fresh water, lush vegetation, locally grown produce, buildings, a hospital, an airport, a harbour and a meteorological station, all supporting over 200 people*.

Since the Philippines' entire raison d'etre and the tribunal's own "legitimacy" hinged on a "game changer" decision on whether Taiping Island is an island or a rock, under the rule of fairness the tribunal should have appointed an independent UN agency to make an impartial judgment, after proper field and hydrographic surveys.

Instead, the tribunal ignored the ICJ ruling in Nicaragua v Colombia, studied historical documents and maps, and ruled narrowly that Taiping Island is a rock, validating its own "legitimacy". An invitation to visit Taiping Island was rejected by the Philippines and ignored by the tribunal.

In my view, *this ruling was not only absurd, it also violated the legal principle of Nemo judex in causa sua, meaning "no persons can judge a case in which they have an interest"*. To add insult to injury, Taiwan, which lost a 200-nautical-mile EEZ, was not even consulted. Taiwan rejected the ruling as baseless.

Former ICJ judge Abdul Koroma said such a complicated decision takes years to conclude. But here it took only a week during the merits stage in November last year.

*Eighth is the implication if Taiping Island is not really a rock but can be classified as an island*.

Taiping Island is about 204 nautical miles from the Philippines. If it is rightly ruled an island with a 200-nautical-mile exclusive economic zone under Unclos, Taiping's EEZ will reach the Philippines' coast and overlap with the latter's EEZ.

If Taiping Island, now occupied by Taiwan, has a 200-nautical-mile EEZ and is considered a part of China under the one-China policy, it would validate the nine-dash line map that shows China's sovereignty claims over the Spratly, Pratas and Paracel Islands, Macclesfield Bank and the Scarborough Shoal in the South China Sea.

Under Article 15 of Unclos, the new maritime boundary between Taiping Island and the Philippine coast is equidistant or about 102 nautical miles, revealing the eight features, annexed by president Marcos, are from China's Spratly Islands.

The tribunal defied conventional wisdom, overreached and arbitrarily ruled that Taiping Island is a rock. The coast was then clear for the tribunal to invalidate China's historic rights within the nine-dash line without the inconvenience of delimitation.

Some analysts have dismissed this as a political decision, which could undermine the integrity of Unclos because Japan now says the verdict's legal ramifications apply only to China and the Philippines. Japan insists that Okinotorishima, which is "a collection of tiny specks that are barely visible at high tide, located about 1,740km south of Tokyo, is an island with a 200-nautical-mile EEZ".

But despite the eight areas of controversy which will keep maritime lawyers and law students busy for many years to come, the good news is that China and Asean issued a joint statement in Vientiane on July 26 without mentioning the divisive arbitration case.

They have reached a new modus vivendi to resolve the South China Sea disputes "through friendly consultations and negotiations by sovereign states directly concerned".

*The writer is a Singapore-based commentator on Asian affairs and a private researcher on the South China Sea disputes.*

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## terranMarine

kecho said:


> to be friend of the Chinese people.


good, i like that. You do your best making friends with the Chinese people. We always welcome such a good attitude from our SEA neighbors

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cochine

terranMarine said:


> good, i like that. You do your best making friends with the Chinese people. We always welcome such a good attitude from our SEA neighbors



I edited, friend of working class Chinese people, not to the neo-chinese imperialists.


----------



## grey boy 2

terranMarine said:


> good, i like that. You do your best making friends with the Chinese people. We always welcome such a good attitude from our SEA neighbors



Perhaps you may have got him wrong, he meant "Ordinary Vietnamese to make friends with Ordinary Chinese"
However, he aint some "Ordinary Vietnamese, so he may be playing with his verbal games as usual bro, you're like playing music to a cow, wasting your kind friendship approach

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## terranMarine

grey boy 2 said:


> Perhaps you may have got him wrong, he meant "Ordinary Vietnamese to make friends with Ordinary Chinese"
> However, he aint some "Ordinary Vietnamese, so he may be playing with his verbal games as usual bro, you're like playing music to a cow, wasting your kind friendship approach



If that was the case it's deeply regretful he has such a resentment towards the Chinese people in general.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cochine

grey boy 2 said:


> Perhaps you may have got him wrong, he meant "Ordinary Vietnamese to make friends with Ordinary Chinese"
> However, he aint some "Ordinary Vietnamese, so he may be playing with his verbal games as usual bro, you're like playing music to a cow, wasting your kind friendship approach



here is this.


----------



## grey boy 2

kecho said:


> here is this.



Yawn..............

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## terranMarine

@ahojunk in order to have a fruitful discussion, a warning to @kecho would be welcome. Some posts of his are only for trolling here.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cochine

terranMarine said:


> @ahojunk in order to have a fruitful discussion, a warning to @kecho would be welcome. Some posts of his are only for trolling here.



I copied it on PDF to answer your guy's trolling. I think the mode is fair.

check here. https://defence.pk/threads/south-china-sea-news-discussions.196058/page-714


----------



## ahojunk

terranMarine said:


> @ahojunk in order to have a fruitful discussion, a warning to @kecho would be welcome. Some posts of his are only for trolling here.


@terranMarine

I am keeping track of as many threads as I can. If anyone posts insulting, no-value or off-topic material, I will issue infraction notice. Also, to be fair, I don't think English is kecho's first language, so he may not be able to express himself as well as others. I have to make some allowance.

By the way, I can assure you that I taken note of what you have said.


@kecho

Please try to put more info into your posts and make them more useful for others.

Most of your posts are one liners and may come across as trolling.

I understand that English is not your first language (forgive me if I am wrong), but please try.

Thanks.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cochine

Last update 07:03 | 29/08/2016
 


*Persistently, resolutely protecting national sovereignty by peaceful measures
*
_VietNamNet Bridge – Aside from establishing diplomatic relations with foreign countries, the diplomatic sector plays an important role in protecting the independence, sovereignty, unity, and territorial integrity of the country and ensuring a peaceful and stable environment for national growth. Vietnam’s foreign policy has been stated in documents of the 12th National Party Congress and reaffirmed at the ongoing 29th Diplomatic Conference in Hanoi._





_Vietnam's fishing boats_

Vietnam has insisted on a foreign policy of peace, national independence, democracy, cooperation, and development. In recent years, political and security situation in the Asia-Pacific region and Southeast Asia in particular has developed rapidly and unexpectedly. The East Sea issue has become a pressing topic regionally and internationally, particularly since the Permanent Court of Arbitration (PCA) issued an award on the Philippines’ lawsuit against China which clearly interpreted controversial contents in the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea.

Responding to the situation Vietnam has affirmed its stance on national sovereignty and maritime sovereignty rights to persistently and resolutely protect the independence, sovereignty, territorial integrity, and interest of the nation, and guarantee a peaceful and cooperative environment for development. 

*Resolving disputes peacefully*

The East Sea has been a “hot spot” in the region, and tensions have escalated due to territorial and sovereignty disputes and strategic competition among big countries.

Vietnam, with over 3,000km of coastline, is directly impacted by marine security in the East Sea. Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Pham Binh Minh said Vietnam has confirmed time and again its sovereignty and sovereign rights to the Hoang Sa (Paracel) and Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelagos. The diplomatic sector has closely followed the guidelines of the Communist Party of Vietnam to resolutely protect national sovereignty by peaceful means and resolve disputes through negotiations with respect for international law.

Deputy Prime Minister Minh said: “Vietnam insists on protecting its sovereign rights to islands under its control in accordance with international law. We have to defend our rights to our exclusive economic zone of 200 nautical miles. Disputes between two or more countries will be resolved bilaterally or multilaterally. I confirm that Vietnam defends its sovereignty by peaceful means in accordance with international law and requests that other countries respect international law.”

*A peaceful, stable environment in the common interest*

Responding to concerns about big countries’ escalation of tensions and appropriate responses by relevant parties, Deputy Prime Minister Minh said the East Sea is not an issue that should concern only claimants. Other countries in and beyond the region should take responsibility to ensure maritime security and safety and a peaceful environment for development. He added that a country’s provocations will influence its national growth and prestige on the international arena.

Vietnamese Ambassador to China Dang Minh Khoi said: “Although the East Sea has seen complicated developments, I’m positive about the situation. China is growing stronger while countries have strengthened themselves at all levels. But all countries have expressed their wish to maintain peaceful relations. China will benefit from peace and stability in the Asia-Pacific region. No country has talked about war. It shows that Vietnam and other countries share the same view of retaining a peaceful and stable environment for development.”

ASEAN and China recently agreed to finalize the Code of Conduct of Parties in the East Sea in mid 2017, which will be a legal tool guaranteeing maritime peace and stability.

*Narrowing gaps, preventing conflict, and improving cooperation*

Addressing the 29th Diplomatic Conference on Monday, Party General Secretary Nguyen Phu Trong said external work should have an effective remedy to narrow differences, prevent conflicts, improve cooperation, and create conditions for solutions. Vietnam’s diplomatic sector has thoroughly abided by the Party’s guidelines to defend national sovereignty and a peaceful environment for national development.


RELATED NEWS

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## eldamar

*It's starting:

China building in disputed shoal: Philippines' Duterte
*

Beijing is expanding its large-scale land reclamation in the disputed South China Sea, Philippine president Rodrigo Duterte said Friday, despite an international court ruling rejecting most of China's claims in the resource-rich area.

A UN-backed tribunal ruled in July that China's claims to almost all of the strategic sea had no legal basis and its construction of artificial islands in disputed waters was illegal.

But Duterte said he received an "unsettling" intelligence report showing China had sent barges to the contested Scarborough Shoal and had appeared to begin construction in the area for the first time.

"There seem to be new barges coming in and they suspect that's going to be another construction."

China has sought to assert its claims in the South China Sea by building a network of artificial islands capable of supporting military operations.

Its massive land reclamation has prompted criticism from the US and claimant countries, with Washington warning it endangers freedom of navigation in international waters.

Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan also have claims to the sea, through which over $5 trillion in annual trade passes.

The Scarborough Shoal, a rich fishing ground within the Philippines' exclusive economic zone and far away from the nearest major Chinese landmass, is a particular flashpoint. China took control of Scarborough Shoal in 2012 after a stand-off with the country's navy.

Duterte's comments come a week before a regional summit in Laos where the South China Sea dispute will be on the agenda.

He said he would consider bringing up the construction work during bilateral talks with Beijing, adding it would affect global commerce.

"If (China) continues building military installations there ... insurance would go up for the ships and the goods they transport. Because then it would be a source of conflict and thereby the threat is always there."

Duterte, who took office two months ago, has vowed to mend ties with China after his predecessor Benigno Aquino angered Beijing by filing the arbitration case in 2013.

He has said he would not raise the matter of the ruling in Laos to avoid escalating tensions. But on Friday, Duterte he said he would insist on China's compliance with the verdict during direct talks with Beijing.

He criticised the Asian giant's statements saying it would ignore the ruling.

"We can only take so much but you cannot be slapped every day with (those) kinds of words."

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Globenim

eldarlmari said:


> *It's starting:
> 
> China building in disputed shoal: Philippines' Duterte
> *
> 
> Beijing is expanding its large-scale land reclamation in the disputed South China Sea, Philippine president Rodrigo Duterte said Friday, despite an international court ruling rejecting most of China's claims in the resource-rich area.
> 
> A UN-backed tribunal ruled in July that China's claims to almost all of the strategic sea had no legal basis and its construction of artificial islands in disputed waters was illegal.




Cant take Japan Times serious when they don't even wait 2 Paragraphs until they start straight out lying.

It's an *UN-unrelated tribunal* that destroyed its own credibility by not abiding to its own rules to make that silly ruling in first place, not just with the silly judgement made turning entire natural islands into "rocks" under pressure from the U.S. connections and from U.S. controlled nations. But that doesn't fit into the false narrative they want to tell as that objectively false "UN-backed" thrown arround by all these rogue regime controlled propaganda papers to fool the silly sheep that blindly believe in the lie of "their" "free" press.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ahojunk

_Good news these two neighbors are cooperating..._

--------
27 August 2016
* News Story: China-Vietnam maritime cooperation sets example for handling South China Sea disputes *






BEIJING, Aug. 26 (Xinhua) -- Maritime cooperation between China and Vietnam has set an example for handling South China Sea disputes.

The coast guards of China and Vietnam on Friday held their first working meeting during which they signed a conference summary.

Friday's meeting is a key step in enhancing bilateral maritime cooperation between China and Vietnam, which, since 1992, have been negotiating the demarcation of territorial waters in the Beibu Gulf -- a half-closed bay surrounded by Chinese and Vietnamese territory and a traditional fishing area for the two countries.

Maritime cooperation has particularly been deepened since the two countries signed the Beibu Gulf Demarcation Agreement and the Beibu Gulf Fishery Cooperation Agreement in 2000.

China and Vietnam have also conducted joint patrols and joint oil exploration in Beibu Gulf in the past few years.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Red Vietnam is walking a thin line by playing the balancing act between the two giant rivals. 

They knew that Obama's USA is trying to make use of them to counter China but they cannot afford to offend China, the former motherland either. President Obama who was denied a full Red Carpet reception at Hangzhou Airport is on his way out and his TPPA will be history soon. 

That is why Red Vietnam quickly signed up for China's CREP although she already to join TPPA.
France and Germany have both described the European TIPP as the most UNFAIR trade agreement ever.
That makes Philippines who did not signed up SMARTER than the Vietnamese.   



eldarlmari said:


> *It's starting:
> 
> China building in disputed shoal: Philippines' Duterte
> *
> 
> Beijing is expanding its large-scale land reclamation in the disputed South China Sea, Philippine president Rodrigo Duterte said Friday, despite an international court ruling rejecting most of China's claims in the resource-rich area.
> 
> A UN-backed tribunal ruled in July that China's claims to almost all of the strategic sea had no legal basis and its construction of artificial islands in disputed waters was illegal.
> 
> But Duterte said he received an "unsettling" intelligence report showing China had sent barges to the contested Scarborough Shoal and had appeared to begin construction in the area for the first time.
> 
> "There seem to be new barges coming in and they suspect that's going to be another construction."
> 
> China has sought to assert its claims in the South China Sea by building a network of artificial islands capable of supporting military operations.
> 
> Its massive land reclamation has prompted criticism from the US and claimant countries, with Washington warning it endangers freedom of navigation in international waters.
> 
> Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan also have claims to the sea, through which over $5 trillion in annual trade passes.
> 
> The Scarborough Shoal, a rich fishing ground within the Philippines' exclusive economic zone and far away from the nearest major Chinese landmass, is a particular flashpoint. China took control of Scarborough Shoal in 2012 after a stand-off with the country's navy.
> 
> Duterte's comments come a week before a regional summit in Laos where the South China Sea dispute will be on the agenda.
> 
> He said he would consider bringing up the construction work during bilateral talks with Beijing, adding it would affect global commerce.
> 
> "If (China) continues building military installations there ... insurance would go up for the ships and the goods they transport. Because then it would be a source of conflict and thereby the threat is always there."
> 
> Duterte, who took office two months ago, has vowed to mend ties with China after his predecessor Benigno Aquino angered Beijing by filing the arbitration case in 2013.
> 
> He has said he would not raise the matter of the ruling in Laos to avoid escalating tensions. But on Friday, Duterte he said he would insist on China's compliance with the verdict during direct talks with Beijing.
> 
> He criticised the Asian giant's statements saying it would ignore the ruling.
> 
> "We can only take so much but you cannot be slapped every day with (those) kinds of words."



 Philippines cannot stop the machinery which is already in motion. China has GRAND DESIGN on these islands and NO amount of provocations from USA or allies will ever changed anything. 

 Filipino have to thanks US returnee BS Aquino for completing his great assignment for the CIA in exchange for his President. Now the newly elected President Duterte has to work very hard to regain the confidence of China which they have offended.

Don't forget it was the Filipino Coastguards that arrested Chinese Fishermen and drove then away from their traditional fishing shelters.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## terranMarine

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Red Vietnam is walking a thin line by playing the balancing act between the two giant rivals.
> 
> They knew that Obama's USA is trying to make use of them to counter China but they cannot afford to offend China, the former motherland either. President Obama who was denied a full Red Carpet reception at Hangzhou Airport is on his way out and his TPPA will be history soon.
> 
> That is why Red Vietnam quickly signed up for China's CREP although she already to join TPPA.
> France and Germany have both described the European TIPP as the most UNFAIR trade agreement ever.
> That makes Philippines who did not signed up SMARTER than the Vietnamese.
> 
> 
> 
> Philippines cannot stop the machinery which is already in motion. China has GRAND DESIGN on these islands and NO amount of provocations from USA or allies will ever changed anything.
> 
> Filipino have to thanks US returnee BS Aquino for completing his great assignment for the CIA in exchange for his President. Now the newly elected President Duterte has to work very hard to regain the confidence of China which they have offended.
> 
> Don't forget it was the Filipino Coastguards that arrested Chinese Fishermen and drove then away from their traditional fishing shelters.



Trump will torpedo TTP into the depths of SCS, our Viet members will look like monkeys if the deal is off and their wet dream of containing China will be totally shattered. Vietnam is now more than eager to have better ties with China after the arbitration case went into a downhill spiral

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cochine

*US Secretary of State urges China, Philippines to abide by PCA ruling*
Last update 13:32 | 04/09/2016

_US Secretary of State John Kerry has urged China and the Philippines to abide by the Permanent Court of Arbitration (PCA)’s ruling on the East Sea issue, saying that military acts are not a solution to the dispute. 




_

_US Secretary of State John Kerry
_


Addressing a meeting with students during his visit to New Delhi from August 29-31, Kerry said the ruling by the international arbitration court is final and legally binding on all related parties. 

This is a crucial opportunity to uphold the existing rule-based international order in line with current law, he said, adding that the US supports efforts to resolve dispute through diplomatic channel. 

His comments came ahead of the G20 Summit slated for September 4-5 in the Chinese city of Hangzhou. 

On July 12, the PCA issued the ruling saying that China has no historic title over waters of the East Sea. 

The Hague Tribunal also found no legal basis for China to claim historic rights to resources within the so called nine-dash line.

_VNA_


----------



## bobsm

*Russia Supports China’s Stance on South China Sea *

WORLD 17:30 05.09.2016(updated 17:52 05.09.2016)

Russian President Vladimir Putin said that Moscow supports China’s stance on the South China Sea court dispute and opposes any third-party interference.

HANGZHOU (Sputnik) – Russia supports China’s stance on the South China Sea court dispute and opposes any third-party interference, Russian President Vladimir Putin said Monday.

"Chairman Xi Jinping and I have developed very trusting, I would say friendly, relations. But he never – I want to emphasize this – never approached me requesting to somehow comment, somehow intervene in the matter," Putin told reporters.

"We of course have our own opinion on this matter. It is that, first of all, we do not interfere and we believe that any intervention of a non-regional power goes only to the detriment of settling these issues. The intervention of third-party non-regional powers, in my opinion, is harmful and counterproductive," he added.

On July 12, the Hague-based Permanent Court of Arbitration ruled that Beijing has no legal basis to claim historic rights to South China Sea resources and has violated the sovereign rights of the Philippines in the country's exclusive economic zone.

The ruling came after Manila filed a case in January 2013 accusing Beijing of violating the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea.

*"We stand in solidarity and support of China's position on this issue – not to recognize the decision of this court… This is not a political position, but purely legal. It lies in the fact that any arbitration proceedings should be initiated by the disputing parties, while the arbitration court should hear the arguments and positions of the disputing parties. As you know, China did not address the Hague arbitration and no one listened to its position there. How can you recognize these decisions as fair? We support China's position on this issue," Putin stressed.*

Beijing’s territorial claims to the Spratly Islands in the South China Sea, which are believed to be rich in oil and gas reserves, run counter to those of the Philippines, Taiwan, Malaysia, Brunei and Vietnam.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/world/20160905/1044988523/russia-china-putin.html

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## TaiShang

bobsm said:


> *"We stand in solidarity and support of China's position on this issue – not to recognize the decision of this court… This is not a political position, but purely legal. It lies in the fact that any arbitration proceedings should be initiated by the disputing parties, while the arbitration court should hear the arguments and positions of the disputing parties. As you know, China did not address the Hague arbitration and no one listened to its position there. How can you recognize these decisions as fair? We support China's position on this issue," Putin stressed.*



Wow, such a strong statement!

The pain from the statement must have been felt all across SCS down to Vietnam.

The hell with Russia, Vietnam has India and Brahmos.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

terranMarine said:


> Trump will torpedo TTP into the depths of SCS, our Viet members will look like monkeys if the deal is off and their wet dream of containing China will be totally shattered. Vietnam is now more than eager to have better ties with China after the arbitration case went into a downhill spiral



Recently there was a discussion in Singapore on which nation will caught a COLD when China sneezes.

One of them high in the list is Vietnam which is in fact quite dependent on China looking at the trade statistics.

So when I read what the Vietnamese boys are posting in here, I have a good laugh.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cochine

bobsm said:


> *Russia Supports China’s Stance on South China Sea *
> 
> WORLD 17:30 05.09.2016(updated 17:52 05.09.2016)
> 
> Russian President Vladimir Putin said that Moscow supports China’s stance on the South China Sea court dispute and opposes any third-party interference.
> 
> HANGZHOU (Sputnik) – Russia supports China’s stance on the South China Sea court dispute and opposes any third-party interference, Russian President Vladimir Putin said Monday.
> 
> "Chairman Xi Jinping and I have developed very trusting, I would say friendly, relations. But he never – I want to emphasize this – never approached me requesting to somehow comment, somehow intervene in the matter," Putin told reporters.
> 
> "We of course have our own opinion on this matter. It is that, first of all, we do not interfere and we believe that any intervention of a non-regional power goes only to the detriment of settling these issues. The intervention of third-party non-regional powers, in my opinion, is harmful and counterproductive," he added.
> 
> On July 12, the Hague-based Permanent Court of Arbitration ruled that Beijing has no legal basis to claim historic rights to South China Sea resources and has violated the sovereign rights of the Philippines in the country's exclusive economic zone.
> 
> The ruling came after Manila filed a case in January 2013 accusing Beijing of violating the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea.
> 
> *"We stand in solidarity and support of China's position on this issue – not to recognize the decision of this court… This is not a political position, but purely legal. It lies in the fact that any arbitration proceedings should be initiated by the disputing parties, while the arbitration court should hear the arguments and positions of the disputing parties. As you know, China did not address the Hague arbitration and no one listened to its position there. How can you recognize these decisions as fair? We support China's position on this issue," Putin stressed.*
> 
> Beijing’s territorial claims to the Spratly Islands in the South China Sea, which are believed to be rich in oil and gas reserves, run counter to those of the Philippines, Taiwan, Malaysia, Brunei and Vietnam.
> 
> Read more: http://sputniknews.com/world/20160905/1044988523/russia-china-putin.html



Russia has used China to counter USA, simply geopolitical tactic.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## terranMarine

TaiShang said:


> Wow, such a strong statement!
> 
> The pain from the statement must have been felt all across SCS down to Vietnam.
> 
> The hell with Russia, Vietnam has India and Brahmos.



These are indeed very powerful words coming from Putin. His sharp and penetrating eyes saw through the smoke screen laid down by US and its lackeys. Over 60-70 countries who supported China's stance knew there's something going on that really stinks thus stood by China's side. Russia added extra weight with the joint military excercise in SCS to make a clear statement that she too does not find it acceptable that US is meddling with sovereign issues which doesn't concern her at all. Again US is no stakeholder and it's adding more oil to heat things up. But we all understand perfectly well the malignant intentions coming from the bald eagle.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cochine

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Recently there was a discussion in Singapore on which nation will caught a COLD when China sneezes.
> 
> One of them high in the list is Vietnam which is in fact quite dependent on China looking at the trade statistics.
> 
> So when I read what the Vietnamese boys are posting in here, I have a good laugh.



China is loser following PCA ruling. You can laugh or cry here, we don't care.


----------



## terranMarine

kecho said:


> China is loser following PCA ruling. You can laugh or cry here, we don't care.


You sound like EastSea, Niceguy  they always were repetitive

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cochine

terranMarine said:


> You sound like EastSea, Niceguy  they always were repetitive



we are local Vietnamese, whos are living in Vietnam, dudde.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## bobsm

kecho said:


> Russia has used China to counter USA, simply geopolitical tactic.



Which part of this don't you understand, or don't want to understand?

*"This is not a political position, but purely legal. It lies in the fact that any arbitration proceedings should be initiated by the disputing parties, while the arbitration court should hear the arguments and positions of the disputing parties. As you know, China did not address the Hague arbitration and no one listened to its position there. How can you recognize these decisions as fair? We support China's position on this issue, Putin stressed."
*

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cochine

bobsm said:


> Which part of this don't you understand, or don't want to understand?
> 
> *"This is not a political position, but purely legal. It lies in the fact that any arbitration proceedings should be initiated by the disputing parties, while the arbitration court should hear the arguments and positions of the disputing parties. As you know, China did not address the Hague arbitration and no one listened to its position there. How can you recognize these decisions as fair? We support China's position on this issue, Putin stressed."*



.
It is very clear that Putin said about *purely legal, *the formality of arbitration procedure, not about the nature of award PCA ruling on this dispute. Putin forgot that China denied to join in bcz China didn't have evidents to approve her claim in SCS.

So I said that he would like to use China to counter USA Asia pivot in Asia, purely.


----------



## bobsm

kecho said:


> .
> It is very clear that Putin said about *purely legal, *the formality of arbitration procedure, not about the nature of award PCA ruling on this dispute. Putin forgot that China denied to join in bcz China didn't have evidents to approve her claim in SCS.
> 
> So I said that he would like to use China to counter USA Asia pivot in Asia, purely.



Please read slowly and carefully, for the meaning of the statement may go above your head.

*"This is not a political position"* - Putin

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## terranMarine

bobsm said:


> Please read slowly and carefully, for the meaning of the statement may go above your head.
> 
> *"This is not a political position"* - Putin



To Kecho it is a political one, apparently he thinks he knows better what's going on in Putin's mind as he is speaking on his behalf.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cochine

bobsm said:


> Please read slowly and carefully, for the meaning of the statement may go above your head.
> 
> *"This is not a political position"* - Putin



what is important in his statement here ?

I quote for you:

*"We of course have our own opinion on this matter. It is that, first of all, we do not interfere and we believe that any intervention of a non-regional power goes only to the detriment of settling these issues. The intervention of third-party non-regional powers, in my opinion, is harmful and counterproductive," he added.*

Read more: https://sputniknews.com/world/20160905/1044988523/russia-china-putin.html

So why, I said that Russia would like to use China to counter USA's pivot in Asia. purely.


----------



## yusheng

Passive-source ocean bottom seismograph （OBS） array experiment in South China Sea and data quality 
analyses


《中国科学通报：英文版》2014年 第33月 | Chenguang Liu Qingfeng Hua Yanliang Pei Ting Yang Shaohong Xia Mei Xue Ba Manh Le Da Huo Fang Liu Haibo Huang College of Marine Geosciences Ocean University of China Qingdao 266100 China The First Institute of Oceanography State OceanicAdministration Qingdao 266061 China State Key Laboratory of Marine Geology Tongji University Shanghai 200092 China South China Sea Institute of Oceanology Chinese Academy ofSciences Guangzhou 510301 China

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cirr

Our friends in the SCS will surely welcome this with open arms






New ship for CCG

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## cochine

*Japan providing PH with 2 large patrol ships, 5 surveillance aircraft*

September 6, 2016 Gloria Seloza Nation 0

ShareTweet



Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, during his meeting with President Rodrigo Duterte, agreed to supply the Philippines with two large-sized patrol ships and lend up to five used surveillance aircraft to the Philippines, according to Reuters’ report quoting a Japanese government spokesman. The two leaders met before the official start of ASEAN Summit and Related Meetings in Vientiane, Laos.

They agreed on the necessity of continuing law enforcement cooperation and projects which will strengthen maritime capabilities of the Philippines.

Japan, through Japan International Cooperation Agency (JICA), has granted the Philippine government Official Development Assistance (ODA) Loan for the first phase of Maritime Safety Capability Improvement Project for the Philippine Coast Guard (PCG) in 2013.

The said project is providing the PCG with 10 44-meter Multi-Role Response Vessels (MRRVs). The first MRRV was already delivered, succeeding deliveries are expected every quarter until completion of 10 units in 2018.

The phase 2 of Maritime Safety Capability Improvement Project for PCG will cover the 2 Japan-made 92-meter heavy-weather, high endurance MRRVs.

http://www.update.ph/2016/09/japan-...rge-patrol-ships-5-surveillance-aircraft/9153

(Mod, _I think this news is related SCS dispute)_

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cochine

*Russian experts talk legal path to peace, stability in East Sea
*
PANO - Friday, September 09, 2016, 19:26 (GMT+7)

Leading Russian experts and researchers on Asia-Pacific discussed how a legal path helps secure to peace and stability in the East Sea at a round-table workshop in Moscow on September 8.

They agreed that the ruling issued by the Permanent Court of Arbitration (PCA) in The Hague, the Netherlands on July 12, confirms China’s sovereignty declaration in the East Sea has no legal foundation.





_At the workshop_
Secretary General of the International Institute for Peace Grigory Lokshin, an expert from the Russian Academy of Sciences’ Institute of Far Eastern Studies, said the ruling is the clearest explanation for regulations under the UN 1982 Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS).

The PCA’s decision has become a prerequisite condition and laid down a legal foundation for the regional involved parties to push ahead with dialogues and cooperation in the coming time, he added.

Meanwhile, Pavel Gudev, Senior Research Fellow at the Primakov Institute of World Economy and International Relations (IMEMO), said China’s claims were based on no legal foundation and even violated international norms and law.

The ruling provides extra legal power for countries in the East Sea to forge ahead with bilateral and multilateral negotiations, which, he said, are the only legal path to regional peace and stability.

Participants suggested the involved parties seek measures to address disputes peacefully and without use or threat to use forces and in line with international law, especially the UNCLOS 1992.

They agreed that any disputes in the East Sea are unbeneficial for Russia as both Vietnam and China are strategic partners of Russia.

Ancient maps of Vietnam, France, China and other countries were screened during the workshop, which show China has no historical evidence supporting its sovereignty claims in the East Sea and reaffirm Hoang Sa (Paracel) and Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelagos belong to Vietnam.

_*Source: VNA*_

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## JSCh

Sunday, September 11, 2016, 15:50
*China, Russia to hold navy drill in S. China Sea*
By Xinhua



This May 26, 2014 photo shows Russian guided missile cruiser Varyag, the flagship of Russia's Pacific fleet, berths in a port in Shanghai on May 26, 2014, after taking part in a joint military drill with China. A China-Russia eight-day Navy drill will begin in the South China Sea off southern China's Guangdong Province on Sept 12, 2016. (Photo / AFP)

BEIJING – China and Russia will hold an eight-day Navy drill in the South China Sea off southern China's Guangdong Province starting Monday, a Chinese Navy spokesperson said Sunday.

The drill, "Joint Sea-2016," will feature Navy surface ships, submarines, fixed-wing aircraft, ship-borne helicopters marine corps and amphibious armored equipment from both navies, according to spokesperson Liang Yang.

Most of the Chinese participants will come from the Nanhai Fleet under the People's Liberation Army Navy (PLAN).

Together, Chinese and Russian participants will undertake defense, rescue, and anti-submarine operations, in addition to joint-island seizing missions and other activities, Liang said.

The marine corps, in particular, will carry out live-fire drills, sea crossing and island landing operations, and island defense and offense exercises among others, he said.

Liang said the drill, from Sept 12, is part of an annual program, which aims to consolidate and advance the Sino-Russian comprehensive strategic partnership of coordination, and deepen friendly and practical cooperation between the two militaries.

It will also improve coordination between the two navies on joint defense operations at sea, he said.

Earlier reports in July quoted a Chinese Defense Ministry spokesperson as saying that the drill "does not target any third party."

The annual China-Russia joint naval exercise is the fifth of its kind between the two countries since 2012. The drills were held in 2012 in the Yellow Sea; off the coast of Russia's Far East in 2013; and in the East China Sea in 2014.

In 2015, the drill was conducted in two phases: in the Mediterranean in May and then in the Peter the Great Gulf, the waters off the Clerk Cape, and the Sea of Japan in late August.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## cochine

*RUSSIA, CHINA TO HOLD WAR GAMES IN WEST PHILIPPINE SEA*
Posted on September 12, 2016





Share on FacebookTweet on Twitter


A joint naval exercise that lasts up to eight days has started yesterday in the West Philippine Sea – headed by China and Russia. This is the first drill by any country in the contested waters since an international tribunal rejected Beijing’s historic claims to the resource-rich sea.

The naval drills, the first by Russia and China in the South China Sea, will be held off southern China’s Guangdong Province, and was reportedly “not close to Beijing’s nine-dash line which was struck down by the arbitration court in The Hague in July in a case brought by the Philippines over Beijing’s maritime claims there,” said PTI of Firstpost.

The drills were “routine” and not directed at any other countries according to Chinese Navy in a statement on Sunday.

Meanwhile, Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan along with the Philippines, contest China’s claims over the South China Sea.

http://tankler.com/russia-china-to-hold-war-games-in-west-philippine-sea-7699

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ahojunk

_There are no permanent allies, only permanent interests. What Great Britain did was just looking after their own interests._

--------
*The Great Game: Is Britain playing both sides in China-Vietnam standoff?*
Published time: 9 Sep, 2016 15:33
Edited time: 9 Sep, 2016 15:50





_Chinese naval vessels participate in a drill on the East China Sea._

Just a day after the UK pledged to bolster its support for Vietnam, the British government has promised China almost identical defense cooperation – despite the fact that the two Asian nations are teetering on the edge of a potential armed standoff.

Defence Secretary Michael Fallon met with his Chinese counterpart, Chang Wanquan, in London on Thursday on the sidelines of an international conference on UN peacekeeping.

Hours earlier, it was reported that a similar agreement had been reached with military officials from China’s fierce local rival, Vietnam.

China reportedly said it would like to deepen ties with Britain and increase military exchanges – almost identical pledges to those made between Ministry of Defence (MoD) minister Earl Howe and Vietnam’s Deputy Defense Minister Nguyen Chi Vinh just prior to the conference.

“_We should make our military relations a critical growth pole for our bilateral relations,_” Chang told Fallon, according to the Xinhua news agency.

Vietnam is currently engaged in a stand-off with China over its island building efforts in the South China Sea. The Hague recently ruled that by building what are effectively military outposts in the region of the Spratly Islands, China is violating international law.

Besides the goodwill of India and attempts to nurture relations with the UK, Vietnam recently received a pledge from Japan to provide it with patrol ships to better conduct maritime law enforcement operations.

From a Western perspective, the discussion comes at a time when the US, with Britain on its coat-tails, is looking to reorganize its strategic disposition to meet the challenge of a rising China – a phenomenon known in academic circles as the “_pivot to Asia._”

In April, UK military chiefs were handed an £800 million budget boost as they were considering creating new bases in the former British protectorate of Oman and beyond in order to re-establish British power east of the Suez Canal. China has established a major base in nearby Djibouti.

In a statement, Fallon lauded his department’s £35.1 billion budget windfall – its first increase in six years.

“_Nothing is more important than defending our country and protecting our people,_” Fallon said.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## hoangsa74

I posted the above article a few days ago. the viets went absolutely silently when they realized the brits did not give 2 cents about the viet's cause.



kecho said:


> *RUSSIA, CHINA TO HOLD WAR GAMES IN WEST PHILIPPINE SEA*
> Posted on September 12, 2016
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Share on FacebookTweet on Twitter
> 
> 
> A joint naval exercise that lasts up to eight days has started yesterday in the West Philippine Sea – headed by China and Russia. This is the first drill by any country in the contested waters since an international tribunal rejected Beijing’s historic claims to the resource-rich sea.
> 
> The naval drills, the first by Russia and China in the South China Sea, will be held off southern China’s Guangdong Province, and was reportedly “not close to Beijing’s nine-dash line which was struck down by the arbitration court in The Hague in July in a case brought by the Philippines over Beijing’s maritime claims there,” said PTI of Firstpost.
> 
> The drills were “routine” and not directed at any other countries according to Chinese Navy in a statement on Sunday.
> 
> Meanwhile, Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan along with the Philippines, contest China’s claims over the South China Sea.
> 
> http://tankler.com/russia-china-to-hold-war-games-in-west-philippine-sea-7699


Russian just unload another load on the viets with this kind of behavior.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## grey boy 2

Updates: 近日，中国南海部分最新照片在网络上曝出，大自然的鬼斧神工令人叹为观止

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## grey boy 2



Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## cochine

hoangsa74 said:


> I posted the above article a few days ago. the viets went absolutely silently when they realized the brits did not give 2 cents about the viet's cause.
> 
> 
> Russian just unload another load on the viets with this kind of behavior.



do you know where is China EZZ in Quangdong sea ? There is separated by Quangxi sea and there is so far way from Hainan sea. Its not related to us (in East Vietnam Sea).

_(Russian can report to us collected important data and information if its necessary )_


----------



## Daniel808

*Russia Supports China’s Stance on South China Sea *



> *"We stand in solidarity and support of China's position on this issue – not to recognize the decision of this court… This is not a political position, but purely legal. It lies in the fact that any arbitration proceedings should be initiated by the disputing parties, while the arbitration court should hear the arguments and positions of the disputing parties. As you know, China did not address the Hague arbitration and no one listened to its position there. How can you recognize these decisions as fair? We support China's position on this issue," Putin stressed.*
> 
> Read more: http://sputniknews.com/world/20160905/1044988523/russia-china-putin.html



Fresh from Russia directly !
This tell us, everything 

Don't get shocked, our little viet friends

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cochine

Daniel808 said:


> *Russia Supports China’s Stance on South China Sea *
> 
> 
> 
> Fresh from Russia directly !
> This tell us, everything
> 
> Don't get shocked, our little viet friends



Why we 're shocked ? We do know what could happened in China _Russia (or USSR) relation from long time,. like what was from 1969 ?.


I quote here again for you, Putin said that :

"We of course have our own opinion on this matter. It is that, first of all, we do not interfere and we believe that any intervention of a non-regional power goes only to the detriment of settling these issues. The intervention of third-party non-regional powers, in my opinion, is harmful and counterproductive," he added

https://sputniknews.com/world/20160905/1044988523/russia-china-putin.html

Putin has kick off China to counter USA in Asia.


----------



## hoangsa74

Read #4








Now this is the official statement from North Vietnam that agreed to the Chinese's claim of #4


----------



## TaiShang

kecho said:


> Russia has used China to counter USA, simply geopolitical tactic.



And US use Vietnam to counter China. Simply geopolitical tactic.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cochine

TaiShang said:


> And US use Vietnam to counter China. Simply geopolitical tactic.



Vietnam counter China to defence sea soveregnity, nothing more.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TaiShang

grey boy 2 said:


>



@kecho 

My friend, you should be proud of what an Asian country is capable of doing, given that China started build up only around 2013.

Vietnam and PH build up date back to the early 70s.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cochine

hoangsa74 said:


> Read #4
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now this is the official statement from North Vietnam that agreed to the Chinese's claim of #4



Pls don't post trash here.

1. After 1954, Geneva accord stated that Hoang Sa and Truong Sa belong to SRV not related to North Vietnam.

2. The Letter of North said about 12 mile coast line only, what related to North Vietnam authorities to the 12 mile coast line of China to the Quangxi and Hainan only.

3. Letter didn't mentioned about Paracel and Spratly Islands. Simply, North Viet didn't had right to say about sovereignty of south Vietnam sea territory.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TaiShang

*Legal Defects of the South China Sea Ruling*

By Li Xue & Yuwen Zheng
IPP Review, Sept. 16, 2016

Mainstream Chinese rejection of the South China Sea ruling by the tribunal at the Permanent Court of Arbitration in the Philippines v. China case is based on at least three reasons. *First, the case contravened the general principle that arbitration can only be initiated after a full agreement has been reached between the State Parties concerned. Second, the case essentially dealt with disputes over land territory and maritime boundary delimitation. The sovereignty over land territory is a matter beyond the purview of United Nation Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS).* *China also made a public declaration in 2006 which excluded the application of the dispute resolution mechanism under Article 298 of UNCLOS to issues relating to boundary delimitation, historic bays and titles, military activities, and so on. Third, the Philippines did not satisfy the requirement in Article 281 of UNCLOS or the agreements it had reached with China, nor did it seek communication with China according to Article 283.* What’s more, Article 299 says: “A dispute excluded under Article 297 or excepted by a declaration made under Article 298 from the dispute settlement procedures provided for in section 2 may be submitted to such procedures only by agreement of the parties to the dispute.” 

However, Western mainstream media and scholars believe that the tribunal had jurisdiction over the case. Their reasons include: (a) the State Parties were obliged to accept the compulsory arbitration once they have ratified UNCLOS, which is different from the practice under general international laws and regulations; (b) if the State Parties had not reached a consensus on choosing a dispute settlement mechanism from the International Court of Justice, the International Tribunal for UNCLOS, an arbitral tribunal constituted in accordance with Annex VII of UNCLOS, and a special arbitral tribunal constituted in accordance with Annex VIII of UNCLOS, the complaining party has the right to request the constitution of an arbitral tribunal and initiate arbitration procedures according to Article 287, Article 288, Annex VII and so on; and (c) according to Article 288 of UNCLOS, the parties of dispute have no authority to decide whether the Philippines’ claims are exceptional; rather, such matter is for the arbitral tribunal to decide. 

After the ruling was announced, the analysis on it has become a focus. Important international legal problems include (a) whether the Philippines had fully communicated with China about the South China Sea dispute before initiating the arbitration; (b) whether the arbitral tribunal had obeyed the legal principle of prudence, (c) whether the ruling was fair and just; (d) *whether it was reasonable to declare that Taiping/Itu Aba Island is rock without a 200 nautical mile Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ);* and (e) whether the ruling meets the political wishes of coastal states and island states in the world.

*Prior Communication*

The tribunal considered that multilateral agreements — such as the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea, the Treaty of Amity and Cooperation in Southeast Asia, the Convention on Biological Diversity, and the series of joint statements between China and Philippines — did not preclude or forbid the Philippines from initiating arbitration. In addition, the diplomatic records between both parties show that both sides had exchanged views with each other regarding the dispute. The Philippines sought multilateral negotiation while China insisted on bilateral negotiation. Therefore, the Philippines had the right to submit the dispute to arbitration, and the arbitral tribunal had the right to accept the arbitration. The problem is that what inter-governmental documents usually reflect are the preferences and options of the relevant parties on dispute resolution. It was unlikely for the arbitral tribunal to find any precedent for “forbidding the third-party’s involvement for dispute resolution” to be included in the articles of interstate agreements. 

In practice, China had proposed and implemented the dual-track approach since 2014, which means China had accepted dealing with the South China Sea dispute under the multilateral framework. What’s more, multilateral negotiations between China and ASEAN states in the “Code of Conduct in the South China Sea” is another demonstration of China’s willingness to conduct multilateral negotiations. The negotiations started in December 2013 when these countries participated in a conference in Suzhou and continued recently in a conference at Ha Long Bay in June 2016. *Moreover, has the Philippines proved that it had communicated with China on any of its fifteen submissions, and that such communications had been ineffective? If the Philippines had not exchanged views with China, was it appropriate for the Philippines to initiate arbitration before informing China?* In fact, it was reported that the Philippines had consulted the International Tribunal for UNCLOS on this matter, and that it received the reply that it was not necessary to communicate on specific issues. If this is true, the problem would be more serious.

*Legal Principle of Prudence*

As we all know, UNCLOS was a result of a 9-year-long negotiation which reflects the will of most states and has become the principal law in dealing with maritime issues. Hence, UNCLOS is considered to be the “maritime constitution” and has been ratified by 168 states thus far. The United States is the only country among the five permanent member states in the United Nations Security Council which has refused to ratify UNCLOS.* The other four permanent member states which have ratified UNCLOS have made similar statements that disputes over maritime boundaries, military activities, and so on, should be exempted from the compulsory dispute settlement set in international judicial and arbitral procedures.* (According to information on the official website of Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the Chinese government sent a statement to the Secretary General of the United Nations *on August 25, 2006, in which China ruled out the possibility of applying international judicial or arbitral procedures to “disputes concerning maritime delimitation, historic bays or titles, military and law enforcement activities, and disputes in respect of which the Security Council of the United Nations is exercising the functions assigned to it by the Charter of the United Nations*”.). China was exercising the member states’ rights entitled by UNCLOS.

*The tribunal’s clarification of the Regime of Islands in Article 121 of UNCLOS has caused widespread concern and anxiety in international society.*


International laws are set to solve interstate conflicts through low-cost and peaceful means. However, compared with domestic law, international law which is usually called “soft law” lacks strong enforcement power. Many provisions stipulated under international law result from mutual compromises among the relevant parties, and therefore lack clarity and have room for different interpretations. *When the relevant parties cannot agree on certain issues, international laws usually avoid mentioning them in specific articles, which effectively circumvent many potential conflicts.* Such strategy reflects the principle of prudence in the process of international law-making. In international judicial and arbitral practices,* the principle of prudence covers at least three aspects.*

*First, mutual agreement should be obtained from both relevant parties and the unilateral submission of arbitration should be refused. Second, in general, only inter-governmental disputes and cases raised by organizations — rather than personal appeals — should be accepted. Third, the rulings should reflect the spirit of existing international laws and regulations, in order to avoid making unambiguous adjudication which could violate the relevant parties’ will and give rise to new disputes even when it is not necessary to do so. *

The South China Sea arbitral tribunal did not follow the principle of prudence properly. In particular, its clarification of the Regime of Islands in Article 121 of UNCLOS has caused widespread concern and anxiety in international society. *Some have wondered whether the ad hoc arbitral tribunal constituted by five arbitrators has the right to make a ruling that violates the will of many signatory states.* Can the tribunal make judgements on issues that have not been submitted by the Philippines? Has the tribunal solved or made new disputes? If this trend continues, will other states want to join an international institution like UNCLOS? Is such legal radicalism and expansionism the mainstream of international law?

*Equity of the Ruling *

The tribunal agreed with 14 of Philippines’ 15 arbitration claims within a short time.* It is obvious that the arbitral tribunal was partial to the Philippines, which is rare to see in international judicial and arbitral history. *The general way is to declare one party’s win over the other while allowing the other party to enjoy some rights, which will show legal fairness and allow for the enforcement of the ruling. However, this tribunal’s one-sided result surprised most scholars and caused worries about the fairness of the ruling.

The tribunal also deemed Chinese land reclamation at seven islands and reefs non-military in nature. *However, as has been done by the Philippines, Malaysia, and Vietnam, China has also stationed its military on its controlled islands and reefs in the Nansha/Spratly Islands. It is impossible for China to allow these islands and reefs to remain purely for civilian use under the intense situation in the South China Sea. In fact, as the biggest coastal state, China has claimed that it will use the seven expanded islands not only for the installation of essential defence facilities but also for the provision of public goods, such as transportation, medical services, disaster relief, scientific research, and so on.* Nevertheless, the tribunal made a counterintuitive judgement in order to avoid the restriction of jurisdiction under Article 298 of UNCLOS. Meanwhile, the tribunal found that the Nansha/Spratly Islands should not be treated as a whole to generate maritime zones on its own, which was not included in the Philippines’ claims. Thus, the ruling was not merely a reflection of legal activism and expansionism but also* a violation of the common sense of “no trial without complaint” in international law.*

*Legal Status of Taiping/Itu Aba Island*

The tribunal determined that all islands and reefs in the Nansha/Spratly and Zhongsha Islands (Macclesfield Bank and the Scarborough Shoal) cannot generate any EEZ, which is entirely different from the universal understanding among international jurisprudential and scholarly circles who have studied the South China Sea issues. In the past few years, the authors have taken part in many academic conferences and interviewed dozens of specialists on international law and the South China Sea. The number of islands that the specialists believe can generate EEZs is varied, ranging from five to more than ten, and even more than thirty. There is at least one common ground among them: that Taiping/Itu Aba Island meets the standard of “island” as defined by UNCLOS. 

Then, what made the tribunal determine that Taiping/Itu Aba Island is not capable of sustaining human habitation? The Philippines outlined eight reasons.

1) There is no fresh water on Itu Aba suitable for drinking or capable of sustaining a human settlement;
2) There is no natural source of nourishment on the feature capable of sustaining a human settlement;
3) There is no soil on Itu Aba capable of facilitating any kind of agricultural production that could sustain human habitation;
4) There has never been a population on the feature that is indigenous to it;
5) Excluding military garrisons, there has never been human settlement of any kind on Itu Aba;
6) There was not even a military occupation prior to World War II;
7) The Taiwanese troops that are garrisoned at Itu Aba are entirely dependent for their survival on supplies from Taiwan, and apart from sunlight and air, they derive nothing they need from the feature itself; and
8) No economic activity has been or is performed on Itu Aba.

In the past few months, the Taiwanese authority has proved that Taiping/Itu Aba Island has natural source of nourishment, agricultural soil, and economic activity, and has supplied more than the sunshine and air to people living on it. Indeed, the French archive that the Philippines provided to the tribunal shows that French botanists visiting Taiping/Itu Aba Island in 1936 found the island had some vegetation and was covered partly with soil. Furthermore, the Coast Guard on Taiping/Itu Aba Island belongs to a paramilitary force rather than the regular military garrison, let alone doctors and nurses in the hospital of the island. The occupation of the islands in the South China Sea by France and Japan before World War II is evidence to refute the assertion that “there was not even a military occupation prior to World War II.” As for “lack of indigenous population,” it has never been a necessary condition to satisfy the criterion of forming an island.

The Philippines mentioned specifically that the island lacks fresh water “suitable for drinking” and used it as key evidence. But scholars all know that Taiping/Itu Aba Island and Zhongye/Thitu Island have enough fresh water which is rare in the Nansha/Spratly Islands. *Because of the low quality of fresh water, gathering and storing rainwater becomes the first remedial measure before sea water desalination equipment was installed on Taiping/Itu Aba Island, as has usually been done by many people settling on islands around the world for thousands of years.* *According to the arbitration, countless islands on Earth will possess only 12 nautical miles of territorial waters. It is undoubted that the arbitration challenges all coastal states’ and island states’ will. Do these states need to alter all relevant laws?* As we all know, the legal effect of international arbitration is weaker than international judicial judgement, so *how could the five arbitrators get enough power to challenge the existing order?* *Does the arbitration committee make new disputes and conflicts?* *Do sovereign states support the arbitration?* It is unlikely for great powers to indulge this power-expanding activity which may damage their national interests significantly. Some scholars have already pointed out that the arbitration will become a strong reason for the US Senate to reject UNCLOS.

*According to the arbitration, countless islands on Earth will possess only 12 nm of territorial waters, which will challenge all coastal states’ and island states’ will.*


On Taiping/Itu Aba Island, the Taiwanese authority dug a more than 600 meter deep water well in the 1980s and built a collecting ground and reservoir in 1992. In 1993, Taiwan installed two sea water desalination machines to produce 23 tonnes of fresh water in 4 hours per day. There are four wells on the island now, and these wells produce 65 tonnes of fresh water per day. The salinity in three of the four wells is between 0.1 to 0.3 percent, which is far lower than the level between 3.3 and 3.5 percent of the sea water. The Number 5 well located in the East has the best water quality, which can produce 3 tonnes of water for 1500 people per day. Its solvency reaches 418-427 mg/L, which is close to the standard of mineral water. 

Without any field visits, these five aged judges made the decision relying on remote sensing data, several experts’ testimonies, and a few research reports.* It is worth mentioning that the testimony presented by one of the experts from Australia is contrary to his previous argument in scholarly papers.* The ruling clearly is a result of a subjective judgement and differs from the understanding among academic circles on the South China Sea. Such a radicalized, expansive, biased and arbitrary decision has destroyed international society’s confidence in the fairness of the tribunal.

*China’s Historic Rights in the South China Sea*

The arbitral tribunal’s explanation on the Chinese historic rights in the South China Sea is also questionable. The tribunal insisted that the Chinese rights of navigation and fishing are not exclusive, and these rights are equivalent to rights on high seas before the conclusion of UNCLOS. The arbitrators also believed that Chinese historic rights in the South China Sea are different from historic bays or titles in UNCLOS. They argued that Chinese historic rights should be limited to living resources which do not include non-living resources such as petroleum and mining resources in the South China Sea. This kind of historic rights is within the scope of UNCLOS. 

“Historic rights” is an evolving concept which has been applied to the maritime boundary delimitation between India and Sri Lanka; while “historic bay” is not an old concept and it will take time for people to accept this concept. It is known to those who have studied international politics that even if there are high seas in the South China Sea, these high seas are different from those in the oceans.* The natural resources in the South China Sea cannot be shared by the whole world. It is impractical to force China to give up its historical rights and the Nine-Dash Line before the parties concerned have reached compromise. Once the relevant states reach an agreement based on proposals such as “common sovereignty” and “non-exclusive jurisdiction of natural resources”, the South China Sea will act as a catalyst for East Asian integration.* The ruling excluded this option and attempted to force China to give up the Nine-Dash Line and bring its claim into full conformity with UNCLOS. *This has ultimately radicalized the dispute. *

On the one hand, international maritime laws include not only UNCLOS but also international customs and other international treaties. On the other hand, many maritime issues are not regulated by the articles of UNCLOS and hence they need to refer to other international laws and practices. The arbitral tribunal equated international maritime law with UNCLOS and declared that any issues that are not covered by UNCLOS are illegal. The arbitral tribunal, therefore, violated the basic logic of international law. The main purpose behind the ruling is to deny Chinese historic rights which rely primarily on customary international law.

As international legal scholars dig further into the case, more deficiencies of the arbitral ruling will be spotted. The lack of rigor and fairness has failed to prove the professionalism of the arbitrators.

*Conclusion *

The Philippines did not disclose the fact that the two countries had “effective but slow negotiation under multilateral framework,” nor did it communicate with China prior to the arbitration. *The reasons for the tribunal to accept the arbitration were not convincing. The ruling has violated the principle of prudence and reflected legal expansionism and radicalism. Although the arbitral tribunal has done its best to keep impartialness in form, its ruling showed obvious bias against China.* *Besides, the ruling breached the general will of all coastal and island states and “illegalized” many existing relative laws in these states.* While the ruling intended to constrain maritime expansionism through decisions such as the restricted interpretation of “islands,” it will inevitably cause more maritime disputes because the maritime zones of many states generated from islands will be deprived. Meanwhile, the ruling limited the development of international law and denied the possibility of solving the South China Sea dispute based on proposals such as “common sovereignty” and “non-exclusive jurisdiction of nature resource.”

It appears that the tribunal’s ruling is against the mainstream view among international legal scholars and academic circles on the South China Sea. Therefore, it is likely to become a controversial case and cautionary lesson for the future. 

(The authors would like to express gratitude to the following scholars for their suggestions: Dr Liu Heng, Professor Luo Guoqiang, Dr Liu Dan, Dr Zuo Xiying, Dr Zheng Zhihua, and Dr Li Kaisheng. Dr Yang Fang from Australia National University polished this translation.)

@bobsm , @CAPRICORN-88 , @Daniel808

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## grey boy 2



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## grey boy 2



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cochine

*PH PRECONDITIONS IN BILATERAL TALKS WITH CHINA*
Posted on September 18, 2016





Share on FacebookTweet on Twitter


Arrangements through diplomatic channels for bilateral talks with China are being undertaken by Philippines without any preconditions to discuss their competing claims in the South China Sea and West Philippine Sea, Foreign Secretary Perfecto Yasay said.

“Our position has been we will not engage them in talks outside the framework of the tribunal ruling. We are now engaged in the process of making sure these bilateral talks will happen,” Yasay stated.

Yasay said the relationship between the two countries was not limited to the maritime dispute. There were other areas of concern in such fields as investment, trade and tourism and discussing them could open the door for talks on the maritime issue.

Meanwhile, Beijing has said it can only talk with Manila outside the framework of the ruling by the Permanent Court of Arbitration in the Hague that declared as invalid China’s extensive claim in the South China Sea and West Philippine Sea. The ruling also reaffirmed the Philippines’ rights over several contested reefs, shoals and islands.

“The important thing is that we talk,” Yasay told Filipino community members at a meeting in the Philippine embassy in Washington on Friday.

http://tankler.com/ph-preconditions-in-bilateral-talks-with-china-7965


----------



## TaiShang

*China, Russia conclude joint naval drill*
*Xinhua, September 20, 2016*
​

Chinese frigate "Huangshan" and Russian Navy's Antisubmarine Ship "Admiral Tributs" sail to a target area during a China-Russia naval joint drill at sea off south China's Guangdong Province, Sept. 16, 2016. Chinese and Russian fleets conducted joint operation exercise off Guangdong Province in the South China Sea during the "Joint Sea 2016" drill on Friday. The drill, starting on Sept. 12, will run until Sept. 19, consisting of three phases: preparation at port, exercise at sea and summary. [Photo / Xinhua]

​

Senior colonel Zhai Baoran directs on Chinese frigate "Guangzhou" during a China-Russia naval joint drill at sea off south China's Guangdong Province, Sept. 19, 2016. The closing ceremony of the "Joint Sea 2016" drill was held at the joint director department after Chinese and Russian fleets completed all scheduled subjects of the drill on a sea area east of Zhanjiang in south China's Guangdong Province on Monday. [Photo / Xinhua]

​

Chinese officers and soldiers waves to say goodbye to Russian fleet during a China-Russia naval joint drill at sea off south China's Guangdong Province, Sept. 19, 2016. The closing ceremony of the "Joint Sea 2016" drill was held at the joint director department after Chinese and Russian fleets completed all scheduled subjects of the drill on a sea area east of Zhanjiang in south China's Guangdong Province on Monday. [Photo / Xinhua]

​

Chinese officers and soldiers waves to say goodbye to Russian fleet during a China-Russia naval joint drill at sea off south China's Guangdong Province, Sept. 19, 2016. The closing ceremony of the "Joint Sea 2016" drill was held at the joint director department after Chinese and Russian fleets completed all scheduled subjects of the drill on a sea area east of Zhanjiang in south China's Guangdong Province on Monday. [Photo / Xinhua]

​

Chinese officers and soldiers waves to say goodbye to Russian fleet during a China-Russia naval joint drill at sea off south China's Guangdong Province, Sept. 19, 2016. The closing ceremony of the "Joint Sea 2016" drill was held at the joint director department after Chinese and Russian fleets completed all scheduled subjects of the drill on a sea area east of Zhanjiang in south China's Guangdong Province on Monday. [Photo / Xinhua]

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ahojunk

*Taiwan’s new facilities on Taiping Island may have military use*
Lawrence Chung, SCMP
PUBLISHED : Tuesday, 20 September, 2016, 3:15pm
UPDATED : Wednesday, 21 September, 2016, 12:09am

Outpost is part of the Spratly Islands and is also claimed by mainland China, the Philippines and Vietnam.






Taiwan is building four concrete structures on the disputed Taiping Island in the South China Sea, in what might be a facility to increase its military alertness.

The structures, about three to four storeys high, were found to have been built on the coastline of the west side of Taiping surrounding a circular structure still under construction on the shore, according to a recent Google Earth map.

Taiping is part of the Spratly Islands and is also claimed by mainland China, the Philippines and Vietnam.

The discovery of the facilities comes at a sensitive time when both Taiwan and the mainland are protesting against a ruling by an international tribunal over the status of the South China Sea archipelagos.

They were not there on the previous map taken by satellite in January last year.

Taiwanese Defence Minister Feng Shih-kuan on Tuesday declined to reveal what exactly the structures were for.

“It is inconvenient for us to reveal any military facilities we are installing on Taiping Island and what their purposes are as they are all considered secrets,” Feng told reporters after a legislative session in Taipei. But he assured the public that “Taiping Island has strong defensive capability.”

According to Kuomintang legislator Johnny Chiang Chi-chen, the structures were there in July when he led a group of lawmakers on a trip to Taiping to assert Taiwan’s ownership claim and protest over the ruling.






The tribunal ruled Taiping was a rock and therefore could not be used to justify claims in the surrounding waters under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea.

Taiwanese media have speculated the structures could house anti-aircraft weapons.

Military experts said they could be used to launch mobile surface-to-air missiles but they were more likely devoted to detection and surveillance.

“It is unlikely a cannon base, given that the salty waters and vapours would rust the cannons,” military expert Chen Kuo-ming said.

“Very possibly they are for a certain kind of military alert system or facility that can be mounted on them,” Chen said.

Arthur Ding, an associate research fellow at Stockholm-based Institute for Security and Development Policy, said the construction would have been approved by former president Ma Ying-jeou to increase Taiping’s defences amid the dispute over the South China Sea.

“Sensitive as they may be, I don’t think it would greatly escalate the tension in the region, given that Taiping is controlled by Taiwan, which is considered relatively moderate over the South China Sea dispute,” he said.

Meanwhile, legislators have demanded that the defence ministry and Taiwan’s Coast Guard Administration contact Google and ensure the company obscures details of the structures in their photos to protect Taiwanese military secrets.

Macau-based military expert Antony Wong Dong said the four structures appeared to be large coastal forts to prevent any landing assaults.






“The surrounding area ... is the most suitable landing beach on Taiping. Such kinds of construction were only found in Germany during the second world war and Taiwan,” Wong said.

“The coastal forts can effectively stop vessels from Vietnam or even deter mainland warships from landing on Taiping.”

Wong said the structures might be equipped with heavy machine guns, howitzers or even anti-tank weapons.

Additional reporting by Minnie Chan

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cochine

*France-Vietnam friendship associations support PCA’s ruling
*
_The France-Vietnam Friendship Association, organisations of Vietnamese community and friendship associations with Vietnam in France issued a joint statement expressing support to the ruling on the East Sea issue by the Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague, the Netherlands. _

_



_

_China's construction in the East Sea
_


The statement stressed that according to the PCA’s ruling, China has no legal basis to claim “historic right” over the so-called “nine dash-line” in the East Sea. Furthermore, China has caused serious damage to the ecosystem by intentionally changing status quo and massively building seaport and airport infrastructure in the area. 

It also expressed strong protest against China’s illegal actions and claims and urged parties concerned, especially China and the international community, to commit to and act to enforce international law, particularly the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea and the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the East Sea. 

Disputes in the East Sea must be settled by peaceful means and negotiations in line with international law, absolute refrain from any threat or use of force, ensuring all parties’ respect to the PCA’s ruling, it said.

_VNA_


----------



## TaiShang

*South China Sea: Washington 'Lost the Plot and the Pivot' in Southeast Asia*

16.09.2016, Sputnik News

Although Washington has taken every effort to undermine Beijing's position in the Southeast region, US President Obama's "Pivot to Asia" policy has failed. Geostrategic analyst Mathew Maavak and CNTV Editor Tom McGregor shared their views on the prospects of the South China Sea dispute in an interview with Sputnik.

*While China is pushing ahead with the New Silk Road initiative and establishing closer working relationships with other major Eurasian powers, such as Russia and India, in order to transform the continent into a unified trade space, Washington has increased its pressure on Beijing.*

It is hardly a coincidence that the US has intensified its FONOP (freedom of navigation operation) maneuvers in the South China Sea at the same time trying to drive a wedge between Beijing and the ASEAN nations.

Furthermore, on July 12, 2016 The Hague Permanent Court of Arbitration (PCA) issued a ruling on the dispute brought by the Philippines — the US' military ally since 1951 — against China over the South China Sea back in 2013.

The arbitration case was brought at the PCA in 2013 by former Philippine president Benigno Aquino, who at the same time started negotiating an enhanced defense pact with Washington aimed at beefing up US military presence in the region.

In March 2016 Militarytimes.com highlighted that the agreement between Washington and Manila had come into force, paving the way for a new American "permanent military presence" across five bases in the Philippines and targeting "the contested South China Sea."

*It seemed that Barack Obama's "Pivot to Asia" strategy reached its goal.

However, further developments showed that there's many a slip between the cup and the lip.*

Following The Hague ruling ASEAN nations refused to aggravate tensions with China, while the Philippines' new leader Rodrigo Duterte didn't rush to reap the benefits of the award.

Why Obama's 'Pivot to Asia' Strategy Has Been Proven Ineffective

As Obama's second term is ending, can we say that his Pivot to Asia strategy has failed? "Without a scintilla of doubt!" Mathew Maavak, geostrategic analyst and doctoral candidate in Security Foresight at Universiti Teknologi Malaysia (UTM) told Sputnik.

*"Washington virtually sent an armada to rebuff so-called Chinese aggression in the South China Sea, and expected the Philippines to be its military pivot in Southeast Asia. Instead, President Rodrigo Duterte called his American counterpart a 'son of a b***' and is now requesting the exit of US Special Forces from the southern Philippines," he noted.*

*"I will be charting a [new] course [for the Philippines] on its own and will not be dependent on the United States,"* Duterte stressed after elections, as quoted by Reuters.

Furthermore, the new Philippines President announced recently that* he is mulling purchasing arms from China and Russia* and *may end joint patrol with the US in the South China Sea*, prompting experts to speculate about a "dramatic shift in the geostrategic picture of the region," as Bloomberg noted.

"Generally, US efforts in this area [the South China Sea region] have not been successful. It is trying hard to cultivate special ties with Vietnam — using the South China Sea card — but Hanoi is hedging its cards well by engaging Moscow and New Delhi as well," Maavak pointed out.

*"The US may have lost the plot — and the pivot — but does it still possess the capability to destabilize Southeast Asia? That's the worrying question…" he remarked.*

_Activists burn a mock US flag during a protest at the US embassy, to coincide with US Secretary of State John Kerry's visit to the Philippines in Manila on July 27, 2016_

*South China Sea May Become 'Non-Issue' if Trump Wins*

The question remains open whether or not Obama's successor will follow in his footsteps in Southeast Asia.

Tom McGregor, Commentator and Editor at CNTV (China Network Television), believes that if Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump wins the US presidential election in November, Washington may reconsider its strategy toward Beijing and Moscow.

"Now that Trump seems more likely to become the next US president, the South China Sea may become, at least relative to today, a non-issue.

Trump is more concerned about promoting fair trade and bringing jobs back to the United States and costly territorial disputes do not play into that equation," McGregor told Sputnik.

The CNTV commentator emphasized that the Obama administration's "Pivot to Asia" has de facto accelerated the Sino-Russian rapprochement.

*"The US Pivot to Asia has forced China to pursue its own reset with Russia. We can expect closer ties between Beijing and Moscow in the days ahead so long as Washington seeks to restrain China.*

Nevertheless, if US reverses course during a Trump presidency, I anticipate improved bilateral ties between Russian and the US while *China may face more challenges due to a Putin-Trump rapprochement*," McGregor suggested. Meanwhile, Beijing and Moscow are bolstering the Sino-Russian cooperation.

At the recent G20 Summit Beijing demonstrated "special hospitality" toward Russian President Vladimir Putin. Why is Beijing interested in further political, economic and military rapprochement with Russia? Is it somehow connected with the US pressuring Beijing in the South China Sea?

"Again, one can speculate that this gesture was indicative of larger, regional autarkic forces at work behind the scenes. It is not just the South China Sea at stake here. *The world is waking up to the likelihood of a post-American multipolar world. This will be a post-dollar world as well, and it will be anchored foremost in Greater Eurasia.* Only WWIII can delay — not prevent — a shift of geopolitical and geo-economic power to the East," Maavak emphasized, speaking to Sputnik.

Read more: https://sputniknews.com/politics/20160916/1045378213/south-china-sea-us-asia-pivot.html

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## UMNOPutra

_NO debatable ...It is true that money and "Sweet Talking" from China can change every thing in SCS ..._
*--------
Indonesia’s ASEAN leadership lost at sea*
by Ristian Atriandi Supriyanto

As ASEAN meetings in Vientiane concluded in September 2016, an air of anxiety was already beginning to settle over the Southeast Asian nations. Further resistance against China’s maritime assertiveness in the South China Sea is proving increasingly futile. Nothing displays this conviction better than ASEAN’s muted acquiescence towards Beijing’s rejection of a legally binding Permanent Court of Arbitration’s (PCA) decision in July 2016; ignoring calls from the United States andothers. And it’s wrong to assume that Indonesia’s diplomatic heft in ASEAN could change that.

Prior to the PCA decision, Indonesia had been consistently arguing about the illegality of China’s ‘nine-dash’ or ‘U-shaped’ line claim. This stems from its critical stake in the UNCLOS-based global maritime order — a point Indonesia made clear in its 2010 UN note. It thus begs the question why Indonesia’s foreign ministry statement did not explicitly support the decision, although President Joko Widodo’s parliamentary address reiterated the statement’s call for conciliatory efforts among claimants. Indonesia could have at least amplified its diplomatic concerns on the illegality of the U-shaped line. But it didn’t, despite plenty of opportunities to do so.

https://dinmerican.wordpress.com/2016/09/17/indonesias-asean-leadership-lost-at-sea/


----------



## GS Zhou

kecho said:


> Countries must be free to pass through *the South China Sea (Vietnam's East Sea)*, the European Commission said on Wednesday, in its first diplomatic admonishment of Beijing after Chinese jets intercepted a U.S. military plane over the contested waters last month.





kecho said:


> Despite the Commission's careful language, the EU is increasingly concerned by the tensions and French Defence Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian called this month for "regular and visible" European patrols in* the South China Sea (Vietnam's East Sea)*.



Firstly, this is a news in June, I see no reason to post such an old piece of new at this moment.

Secondly, *please do NOT exaggerate or distort the original news*. In the original Reuters news By Robin Emmott, there is NOTHING about the so-called "East Vietnam Sea", needless to say "Vietnam's East Sea". Pls stop making such funny tricks. 

Below is the screen-shot of the original news. Tell us where is the words about "Vietnam's East Sea"??










link to the original news: 
http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-southchinasea-china-eu-idUKKCN0Z81W9

@Shotgunner51 @ahojunk @Hu Songshan 
sirs, I report this case to you. This Vietnam user is distorting the news he post. Thanks.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cochine

GS Zhou said:


> Firstly, this is a news in June, I see no reason to post such an old piece of new at this moment.
> 
> Secondly, *please do NOT exaggerate or distort the original news*. In the original Reuters news By Robin Emmott, there is NOTHING about the so-called "East Vietnam Sea", needless to say "Vietnam's East Sea". Pls stop making such funny tricks.
> 
> Below is the screen-shot of the original news. Tell us where is the words about "Vietnam's East Sea"??
> 
> View attachment 336788
> 
> 
> View attachment 336787
> 
> link to the original news:
> http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-southchinasea-china-eu-idUKKCN0Z81W9
> 
> @Shotgunner51 @ahojunk @Hu Songshan
> sirs, I report this case to you. This Vietnam user is distorting the news he post. Thanks.



It is nothing related to what you said *exaggerate or distort the original news,* there is report from VNA, simply additional explanation for the term SCS (...). for the different name called for same sea region in south east Asia.

I quote here below from wiki:

_In China, it is called the "South Sea", 南海 Nánhǎi, and in Vietnam the "East Sea", *Biển Đông*..... 
following an escalation of the Spratly Islands dispute in 2011, various Philippine government agencies started using the name "West Philippine Sea". A PAGASA spokesperson said that the sea to the east of the Philippines will continue to be called thePhilippine Sea.[13]..._

*South China Sea*






and here below for the term "Bien Đông " in *Viet.wiki. https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biển_Đông*

*Biển Đông*








and more:

This report dated from June 23, 2016 , after award of PCA ruling for SCS in 12 June, 2016. I think this news is not so old.

http://e.vnexpress.net/news/world/eu-calls-for-free-passage-through-vietnam-s-east-sea-3424505.html


----------



## GS Zhou

kecho said:


> It is nothing related to what you said *exaggerate or distort the original news,* there is report from VNA, simply additional explanation for the term SCS (...). for the different name called for same sea region in south east Asia.
> 
> I quote here below from wiki:
> 
> _In China, it is called the "South Sea", 南海 Nánhǎi, and in Vietnam the "East Sea", *Biển Đông*.....
> following an escalation of the Spratly Islands dispute in 2011, various Philippine government agencies started using the name "West Philippine Sea". A PAGASA spokesperson said that the sea to the east of the Philippines will continue to be called thePhilippine Sea.[13]..._
> 
> *South China Sea*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and here below for the term "Bien Đông " in *Viet.wiki. https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biển_Đông*
> 
> *Biển Đông*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is nothing related to what you said *exaggerate or distort the original news,* there is report from VNA, simply additional explanation for the term SCS (...). for the different name called for same sea region in south east Asia.
> 
> I quote here below from wiki:
> 
> _In China, it is called the "South Sea", 南海 Nánhǎi, and in Vietnam the "East Sea", *Biển Đông*.[9][10][11] In Malaysia, Indonesia and the Philippines, it was long called the "South China Sea" (Dagat Timog Tsina in Tagalog, Laut China Selatan in Malay), with the part within Philippine territorial waters often called the "Luzon Sea", Dagat Luzon, by the Philippines.[12] However, following an escalation of the Spratly Islands dispute in 2011, various Philippine government agencies started using the name "West Philippine Sea". A PAGASA spokesperson said that the sea to the east of the Philippines will continue to be called thePhilippine Sea.[13]..._
> 
> *South China Sea*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and here below for the term "Bien Đông " in *Viet.wiki. https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biển_Đông*
> 
> *Biển Đông*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and more:
> 
> This report from June 23, 2016 , after award of PCA ruling for SCS in 12 June, 2016. I think this news is not so old.
> 
> http://e.vnexpress.net/news/world/eu-calls-for-free-passage-through-vietnam-s-east-sea-3424505.html



I don't care how you call this sea. You can even call it Kecho's Sea, if you like. In fact, the name alone cannot decide anything. Just like there is a very large part land in Japan is called as "中国", but we will never think this part of Japan belongs to us, simply because of the name is 中国。





The key question is, in the original Reuters article, it mentions nothing about what you, or the Vietnam media, added. I respect your people's right to call South China Sea with the name that you like. But the only proper way is like "...... South China Sea (Editor's Note: In Vietnam, we call it xxx Sea)" .

The childish & disgusting trick you, or the Vietnam media play is obviously trying to mislead the readers to think that the famous western media is calling South China Sea with another name. Although Reuters has NO intention about this at all. Such funny trick has no real impact but to humiliate your country.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cnleio

2016-09 RING

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cochine

GS Zhou said:


> The childish & disgusting trick you, or the Vietnam media play is obviously trying to mislead the readers to think that the famous western media is calling South China Sea with another name. Although Reuters has NO intention about this at all. Such funny trick has no real impact but to humiliate your country



In Vietnam, Vietnam media or VNA report about ECS dispute, it is always said that there is Senkaku Islands *Quần đảo Senkaku *尖閣諸島, but in the additional mark (....) , it also mentioned there is *quần đảo Điếu Ngư Đài* 釣魚台群島 in Chinese. Two name for one geology place, it is fair manner.


----------



## GS Zhou

kecho said:


> In Vietnam, Vietnam media or VNA report about ECS dispute, it is always said that there is Senkaku Islands *Quần đảo Senkaku *尖閣諸島, but in the additional mark (....) , it also mentioned there is *quần đảo Điếu Ngư Đài* 釣魚台群島 in Chinese. Two name for one geology place, it is fair manner.



Two name for one geology place can be frequently seen. But when you did so, you need to make the remark as "... South China Sea (*Editor's note*: xxxx Sea)". The key is to add "Editor's note" here, so readers can tell which part is coming from the original author, which part is coming from the editor, so readers won't fulled like that the original author accepted the name of "xxxx sea".

But from the article you put, we could not find anything about the "Editor's Note", that makes the Vietnam media, and even people who post this Vietnam media article once again (like you), a joke.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## TaiShang

Manila making plans for Duterte to visit China, Japan in October
SCMP
Friday, 23 September, 2016

Diplomats in the Philippines are in talks with counterparts in Japan and China to arrange visits for their controversial President Rodrigo Duterte at the end of next month, officials in Manila said on Friday.

Dates were still being worked out for the proposed trips by the outspoken leader, several officials said, remaining anonymous because they were not authorised to speak to media.

A Japanese foreign ministry official confirmed plans were being made. There was no immediate response from China.

Philippine relations with Japan are warm but those with China have long been frosty over territorial wrangles in the South China Sea.

Duterte has repeatedly said conflict was pointless* and he wants to get along and do business with Beijing.*

Some analysts believe Duterte’s uncharacteristic verbal restraint towards China, in contrast to his stinging rebukes of the United States, United Nations and European Union, shows he is hedging in pursuit of his goal of an independent foreign policy and reducing reliance on former colonial ruler Washington.

China and the Philippines are trying to find a way to break the ice after a verdict by an arbitral court in The Hague in July invalidated China’s claims to most of the South China Sea and gave Manila the legal high ground in the dispute.

During a speech on Thursday Duterte said he would go to China this year and, without elaborating,* told Chinese businessmen: “you will see me often”.*

He reiterated he would not deviate from the court ruling but would seek a way out of a four-year deadlock at the disputed Scarborough Shoal and* for China’s coastguard to let Filipino fish there unimpeded.* The arbitration panel ruled that no one country can legally control that shoal.

A source in the Duterte’s office said it was possible former president Fidel Ramos, his new China envoy, could visit as early as next week to lay the groundwork for talks.

The relationship with Japan is far less complicated and Tokyo has agreed to provide 10 coastguard vessels to Manila to support its maritime security efforts.

Japan, a major investor across Southeast Asia, has been providing coastguard training and ships also to Vietnam, another country at odds with China over its maritime assertiveness.

The proposed October visits would be among Duterte’s first as president in what has been a colourful, at times dramatic first three months in office.

He attended a summit of Asian leaders in Laos earlier this month and has been to Indonesia. He is due to visit Vietnam next week.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ahojunk

22 September 2016 - 08H45
*Taiwan asks Google to blur images of South China Sea island*

*




© Chiang Chi-chen/AFP/File | Taiwan-controlled Taiping Island is part of 
the Spratlys archipelago in the South China Sea*​

TAIPEI (AFP) - 

Taiwan's defence ministry has asked Google to blur images of a new development believed to be for military use on a disputed South China Sea island.

Tensions remain high in the region over conflicting territorial claims, particularly over the strategically important Spratlys chain.

Taiwan administers Taiping island, which is the largest in the Spratlys archipelago. The island chain is also claimed in part or whole by the Philippines, Vietnam and China.

Google satellite images show a circular structure with four Y-shaped attachments, jutting out to sea on Taiping's northwestern coast.

The development comes after Taiwan last year inaugurated a solar-powered lighthouse, an expanded airstrip and a pier as part of efforts to strengthen defence capabilities on Taiping.

The defence ministry said it was in the process of contacting Google Thursday to ask them to blur the satellite images, but would not comment further on what the structures are.

"It is classified information," the ministry's spokesman Chen Chung-chi said when asked the reason for the request to Google, which was made after images of the structures surfaced in local media.

Fears over possible military confrontation in the area have grown since an international tribunal ruling in July which rejected Beijing's sweeping claims to almost all of the South China Sea -- even waters approaching coasts of the Philippines and other Southeast Asian nations.

China outlines its territory using a vague map that emerged in the 1940s, resulting in an overlap with Taiwan's claims.

The two sides split in 1949 after a civil war on the mainland, but Beijing still sees Taiwan as part of its territory.

Beijing angrily vowed to ignore the verdict from the tribunal in The Hague, prompting a warning from US President Barack Obama who emphasised that the ruling was binding.

Crucially for Taipei, the ruling stated that Taiping was legally a "rock" that did not give it an exclusive economic zone, undermining its claims to the surrounding waters.

Taiwan's President Tsai Ing-wen, who has yet to visit the island since taking office in May, has said the verdict "severely jeopardised" Taiwan's rights.

Her predecessor Ma Ying-jeou visited Taiping in January to press Taiwan's claims, a move that triggered criticism from the US as well as protests from Vietnam and the Philippines.

Tensions have also been stoked by China's rapid development of reefs in the South China Sea into artificial islands capable of hosting military planes.

© 2016 AFP

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## frequency

kecho said:


> Russia has used China to counter USA, simply geopolitical tactic.



I think I can see that too. Russians aren't dumb enough to go on their own. Using China as body shield is much more effective than going straight to the Eagle.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## terranMarine

The only meat shield is Vietnam if it's foolish enough to side with the US. Duterte is smart enough not to fall for this trick. And no China is no shield for anybody. China and Russia are strategic partners, Russia has never called Vietnam that way. I think that says alot  besides US is crouching Russian border in EU, that has nothing to do with China. Just as SCS has nothing to do with Russia, Putin gave the order to have a joint drill with PLAN to give Obama his middle finger. Delusional Viets thinking China is a shield for Russia must have smoked some weed.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cochine

GS Zhou said:


> Two name for one geology place can be frequently seen. But when you did so, you need to make the remark as "... South China Sea (*Editor's note*: xxxx Sea)". The key is to add "Editor's note" here, so readers can tell which part is coming from the original author, which part is coming from the editor, so readers won't fulled like that the original author accepted the name of "xxxx sea".
> 
> But from the article you put, we could not find anything about the "Editor's Note", that makes the Vietnam media, and even people who post this Vietnam media article once again (like you), a joke.



The explanation of editor is made in the mark (...), it is clear. It doesn't change nothing to the nature of the news is reported.

Pls read more here.

*Senate starts probe of Chinese activities in West Philippine Sea*
By Marvin Sy (The Philippine Star) | Updated May 7, 2015 - 12:00am
82 843 googleplus1 0 




A Chinese dredging vessel is spotted near Mischief Reef, which the Philippine claims jurisdiction over in the South China Sea. *Republished with permission from CSIS/AMTI*

MANILA, Philippines - *The Senate starts today its inquiry into the alleged reclamation and dredging activities of China in disputed territories of the West Philippine Sea (South China Sea).*

Sen. Antonio Trillanes IV, chairman of the Senate committee on national defense and security, would lead the inquiry into the issue based on the resolution that he filed last month.

A separate resolution was filed by Sen. Miriam Defensor-Santiago calling for an inquiry into the activities of China, which she said might have changed the present situation in the disputed territorial waters.

Santiago cited reports indicating that China’s land reclamation in four of the Philippine-claimed islands and reefs in the West Philippine Sea has reached an estimated 60 hectares.

Aerial photos of Panganiban (Mischief) Reef taken earlier this year showed that dredging activities have also begun in the area.

She quoted Magdalo party list Rep. Ashley Acedillo as saying that upon the completion of China’s reclamation activities, the reefs and shoals would be physically altered to habitable islands and would be able to host structures for military and other personnel as well as support naval and aircraft operations.

Headlines ( Article MRec ), pagematch: 1, sectionmatch: 1
Acedillo, a former military pilot, said the Philippines could lose Ayungin Shoal if China steps up air and navy patrols based in Panganiban Reef.

He added these Chinese-built territories function as forward operating bases that could sustain 24/7 naval and air patrols, virtually allowing China to stake its claim to the detriment of other claimants.

“An investigation must be conducted to examine the extent of the construction in the disputed territories,” Santiago said.

“The state should also study whether a more aggressive action should be taken in order to protect the Philippines’ territories,” she added.

Trillanes, for his part, stressed the need for Congress to “look into and review the relevant national policies and international agreements that are pertinent to the Philippines’ claim over the Spratly Islands,” saying the activities of China there may have significantly changed the physical features of the disputed areas.

Trillanes said this could “bring larger geopolitical consequences such as providing a stronger basis for China’s territorial claim, thereby diminishing the Philippines’ assertion of sovereignty.”

China, on the other hand, has accused the Philippines of illegally occupying some of the islands in the Spratlys that Beijing called its own.

China accused the Philippines of conducting largescale construction of military and civil facilities including airports, ports and barracks on those islands for many years.

Beijing also maintained it has never taken action that may complicate and deteriorate the disputes or affect regional peace and stability and called on the Philippines to stop construction work and evacuate its people.

Department of National Defense (DND) spokesman Peter Paul Galvez said China now appeared to be confused while justifying its own provocative acts as it aggressively asserts maritime claim to virtually all of the West Philippine Sea.

“They have been saying too many things that they are now confused. What they should do is to stop all their reclamation activities, dismantle structures and apologize to the international community for the massive environmental degradation they committed in the West Philippine Sea,” he said.

The Armed Forces of the Philippines (AFP) said it would not pull out troops in the Kalayaan Island Group of the Spratlys.

AFP Public Affairs Office chief Lt. Col. Harold Cabunoc said there is no reason to evacuate the troops as their primary mission is to protect and safeguard the country’s sovereign rights in the region. – *With Jaime Laude, Evelyn Macairan

http://www.philstar.com/headlines/2...-probe-chinese-activities-west-philippine-sea*


----------



## GS Zhou

kecho said:


> The explanation of editor is made in the mark (...), it is clear. It doesn't change nothing to the nature of the news is reported.
> 
> Pls read more here.
> 
> *Senate starts probe of Chinese activities in West Philippine Sea*
> By Marvin Sy (The Philippine Star) | Updated May 7, 2015 - 12:00am
> 82 843 googleplus1 0
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Chinese dredging vessel is spotted near Mischief Reef, which the Philippine claims jurisdiction over in the South China Sea. *Republished with permission from CSIS/AMTI*
> 
> MANILA, Philippines - *The Senate starts today its inquiry into the alleged reclamation and dredging activities of China in disputed territories of the West Philippine Sea (South China Sea).*
> 
> Sen. Antonio Trillanes IV, chairman of the Senate committee on national defense and security, would lead the inquiry into the issue based on the resolution that he filed last month.
> 
> A separate resolution was filed by Sen. Miriam Defensor-Santiago calling for an inquiry into the activities of China, which she said might have changed the present situation in the disputed territorial waters.
> 
> Santiago cited reports indicating that China’s land reclamation in four of the Philippine-claimed islands and reefs in the West Philippine Sea has reached an estimated 60 hectares.
> 
> Aerial photos of Panganiban (Mischief) Reef taken earlier this year showed that dredging activities have also begun in the area.
> 
> She quoted Magdalo party list Rep. Ashley Acedillo as saying that upon the completion of China’s reclamation activities, the reefs and shoals would be physically altered to habitable islands and would be able to host structures for military and other personnel as well as support naval and aircraft operations.
> 
> Headlines ( Article MRec ), pagematch: 1, sectionmatch: 1
> Acedillo, a former military pilot, said the Philippines could lose Ayungin Shoal if China steps up air and navy patrols based in Panganiban Reef.
> 
> He added these Chinese-built territories function as forward operating bases that could sustain 24/7 naval and air patrols, virtually allowing China to stake its claim to the detriment of other claimants.
> 
> “An investigation must be conducted to examine the extent of the construction in the disputed territories,” Santiago said.
> 
> “The state should also study whether a more aggressive action should be taken in order to protect the Philippines’ territories,” she added.
> 
> Trillanes, for his part, stressed the need for Congress to “look into and review the relevant national policies and international agreements that are pertinent to the Philippines’ claim over the Spratly Islands,” saying the activities of China there may have significantly changed the physical features of the disputed areas.
> 
> Trillanes said this could “bring larger geopolitical consequences such as providing a stronger basis for China’s territorial claim, thereby diminishing the Philippines’ assertion of sovereignty.”
> 
> China, on the other hand, has accused the Philippines of illegally occupying some of the islands in the Spratlys that Beijing called its own.
> 
> China accused the Philippines of conducting largescale construction of military and civil facilities including airports, ports and barracks on those islands for many years.
> 
> Beijing also maintained it has never taken action that may complicate and deteriorate the disputes or affect regional peace and stability and called on the Philippines to stop construction work and evacuate its people.
> 
> Department of National Defense (DND) spokesman Peter Paul Galvez said China now appeared to be confused while justifying its own provocative acts as it aggressively asserts maritime claim to virtually all of the West Philippine Sea.
> 
> “They have been saying too many things that they are now confused. What they should do is to stop all their reclamation activities, dismantle structures and apologize to the international community for the massive environmental degradation they committed in the West Philippine Sea,” he said.
> 
> The Armed Forces of the Philippines (AFP) said it would not pull out troops in the Kalayaan Island Group of the Spratlys.
> 
> AFP Public Affairs Office chief Lt. Col. Harold Cabunoc said there is no reason to evacuate the troops as their primary mission is to protect and safeguard the country’s sovereign rights in the region. – *With Jaime Laude, Evelyn Macairan
> 
> http://www.philstar.com/headlines/2...-probe-chinese-activities-west-philippine-sea*



Look how stupid the trick you are playing!

This is an article *published by The Philippine Star on the website of The Philippine Star. *The complete article written by the original author and published by the original author on its own website. So with, or without the mark "editor's note", that's both fine. Because it is the intention of the original author. Readers won't have any misunderstanding.

But look at the Reuters article you show us, it is NOT coming from the original Reuters website, but from an Vietnam media. The Vietnam media re-post the article, and made some edit. In that case, it is the Vietnam media's responsibility to clearly shows which part is coming from the original author Reuters, which part comes from the editor of the Vietnam media. That's why the mark "Editor's note" is important. 

As I mentioned previously, such tricks your media and you play with has NO real impacts, but to humiliate your own country.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cnleio

*The Zubr-class LCAC *will be very useful in SCS.

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## cochine

GS Zhou said:


> Look how stupid the trick you are playing!
> 
> This is an article *published by The Philippine Star on the website of The Philippine Star. *The complete article written by the original author and published by the original author on its own website. So with, or without the mark "editor's note", that's both fine. Because it is the intention of the original author. Readers won't have any misunderstanding.
> 
> But look at the Reuters article you show us, it is NOT coming from the original Reuters website, but from an Vietnam media. The Vietnam media re-post the article, and made some edit. In that case, it is the Vietnam media's responsibility to clearly shows which part is coming from the original author Reuters, which part comes from the editor of the Vietnam media. That's why the mark "Editor's note" is important.
> 
> As I mentioned previously, such tricks your media and you play with has NO real impacts, but to humiliate your own country.



VNA editor staff did same what The Phil star did to prevent misunderstanding when West Philippine sea is new name called by Philippine authourities. Its permitted.

Do you know what Senator Antonio Trillanes IV said to media ?

_"“This issue of China’s reclamation and dredging activities has grave national and regional security implications. It is high time that we assess our country’s preparedness for any contingency,” said Trillanes, chairman of the Senate committee on national defense and security, in a statement on Tuesday...

and "“may have significantly changed the physical features of these disputed areas, which in turn, could bring larger geopolitical consequences such as providing a stronger basis for China’s territorial claim, thereby diminishing the Philippines’ assertion of sovereignty.”_

Read more: http://globalnation.inquirer.net/12...-reclamation-in-disputed-waters#ixzz4LF0OXssx



He didn't mentioned the word "West Philippine sea" or "South China Sea' in his statement. Editor staff of Philippine Star and VNA does their job fairly.


----------



## eldamar

GS Zhou said:


> Two name for one geology place can be frequently seen. But when you did so, you need to make the remark as "... South China Sea (*Editor's note*: xxxx Sea)". The key is to add "Editor's note" here, so readers can tell which part is coming from the original author, which part is coming from the editor, so readers won't fulled like that the original author accepted the name of "xxxx sea".
> 
> But from the article you put, we could not find anything about the "Editor's Note", that makes the Vietnam media, and even people who post this Vietnam media article once again (like you), a joke.



Atually just let him name it whatever he wants- doesnt changes the de facto situation in the South China Sea. I was surfing on my mobile(i cant see the poster's avatar on my mobile) at work just now when i read this thread and by the choice of the wording, i could instantly identify the poster as a Vietnamese. Sure enough when i got home to my PC, the poster was INDEED a Vietnamese


----------



## cochine

eldarlmari said:


> Atually just let him name it whatever he wants- doesnt changes the de facto situation in the South China Sea. I was surfing on my mobile(i cant see the poster's avatar on my mobile) at work just now when i read this thread and by the choice of the wording, i could instantly identify the poster as a Vietnamese. Sure enough when i got home to my PC, the poster was INDEED a Vietnamese



are you Hoa-Indonesian ?

Where is Natuna sea ?


----------



## eldamar

Sewage treatment on Yongxing island:








kecho said:


> are you Hoa-Indonesian ?
> 
> Where is Natuna sea ?



whats hoa-indonesian? whats that? Natuna is in the West China Sea

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cochine

eldarlmari said:


> Sewage treatment on Yongxing island:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> whats hoa-indonesian? whats that? Natuna is in the West China Sea



where is west china sea ?

There is Natuna Sea where:

*Indonesia-China Tensions in the Natuna Sea: Evidence of Naval Efficacy Over Coast Guards?*

http://thediplomat.com/2016/06/indo...evidence-of-naval-efficacy-over-coast-guards/


----------



## eldamar

kecho said:


> where is west china sea ?
> 
> There is Natuna Sea where:
> 
> *Indonesia-China Tensions in the Natuna Sea: Evidence of Naval Efficacy Over Coast Guards?*
> 
> http://thediplomat.com/2016/06/indo...evidence-of-naval-efficacy-over-coast-guards/



West China sea is also what the Vietnamese would call the West Vietnamese Sea


----------



## cochine

eldarlmari said:


> West China sea is also what the Vietnamese would call the West Vietnamese Sea



west china sea doesn't exist, you are yoker.


----------



## eldamar

kecho said:


> west china sea doesn't exist, you are yoker.



if West China sea does not exist, then the East Vietnam Sea doesnt too.

Hence, u're a joker yourself.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cochine

eldarlmari said:


> if West China sea does not exist, then the East Vietnam Sea doesnt too.
> 
> Hence, u're a joker yourself.



Vietnam's East Sea is existed along with the history of Vietnam.

East Sea stated in *Cửu Đỉnh* nhà Nguyễn ( 阮朝九鼎)


----------



## eldamar

kecho said:


> Vietnam's East Sea is existed along with the history of Vietnam.
> 
> East Sea stated in *Cửu Đỉnh* nhà Nguyễn ( 阮朝九鼎)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 337847


i can only recognise the CHINESE words 'East Sea'- from where does it states 'East Vietnam Sea'?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cochine

eldarlmari said:


> i can only recognise the CHINESE words 'East Sea'- from where does it states 'East Vietnam Sea'?



the "East Sea" is in easterner sea territory a of Vietnam.


----------



## eldamar

kecho said:


> the "East Sea" is in easterner sea territory a of Vietnam.



From where does it state 'East Vietnam Sea'. posting a picture of a cauldron with the word 'East Sea' on it doesnt prove anything- that could even be a Chinese artifact(in fact, i think it is).













In fact the 'East Sea' on that cauldron is refering to the East Sea here above

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cochine

eldarlmari said:


> From where does it state 'East Vietnam Sea'. posting a picture of a cauldron with the word 'East Sea' on it doesnt prove anything- that could even be a Chinese artifact(in fact, i think it is).




You can see it when visit Nguyen Dynasty Citadel in Hue city, in Vietnam. It is Vietnam National history heritage.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

kecho said:


> You can see it when visit Nguyen Dynasty Citadel in Hue city, in Vietnam. It is Vietnam National history heritage.



 Don't distort Chinese history. ANNAM as it was called then was a quasi-state and like the Southern Han Kingdom in Quangzhou served at the pleasure the Middle Kingdom's Emperor. Look at the Palace and all the writing in the walls, they are Chinese as Nguyen were all Chinese. Whenever there was a change in dynasty, these quasi-state maystill be loyal to the former Emperor and that was until the newly installed Emperor right it by sending his troops to crush the rebels.

On the other hand, the Kampa Kingdom was annihilated and annexed by ANNAMESE King and hence we have Khmer Annamese in the South who still viewed Imperial China and her King in Hue as occupier.



kecho said:


> *Russia eyes military deal, transfer of technology to Philippines*
> 
> September 25, 2016 Joel Dizon Nation 0



 Transfer of technology!!! Where did I heard that term so very often?

India of course!!! 

Imagine India who does not even have the technology to build a supersonic windtunnel now wanted to built a hypersonic Mach 7 Brahmos for Russia. The missile will disintegrate in mid-flight. 

Now Indian fanboy claimed that France will also transfer their technology to India as well just because India finally signed up for 36 Rafales after luring the French with an initial order for 126. 

I take such news with a pinch of salt because I know one thing most of you do not. NO Advanced especially Western powers will ever transfer you their technology.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## GS Zhou

kecho said:


> VNA editor staff did same what The Phil star did to prevent misunderstanding when West Philippine sea is new name called by Philippine authourities. Its permitted.
> 
> Do you know what Senator Antonio Trillanes IV said to media ?
> 
> _"“This issue of China’s reclamation and dredging activities has grave national and regional security implications. It is high time that we assess our country’s preparedness for any contingency,” said Trillanes, chairman of the Senate committee on national defense and security, in a statement on Tuesday...
> 
> and "“may have significantly changed the physical features of these disputed areas, which in turn, could bring larger geopolitical consequences such as providing a stronger basis for China’s territorial claim, thereby diminishing the Philippines’ assertion of sovereignty.”_
> 
> Read more: http://globalnation.inquirer.net/12...-reclamation-in-disputed-waters#ixzz4LF0OXssx
> 
> 
> 
> He didn't mentioned the word "West Philippine sea" or "South China Sea' in his statement. Editor staff of Philippine Star and VNA does their job fairly.



I don't care what the PH officer is talking about. That is not the core of our debate. 

The core of our discussion is, when some media (Media A) is quoting the article from another media (Media B), Media A needs to make clear indication about which part of the article is coming from the original author (Media B), which part is coming from the editor of Media A.

Like in the case about your VN media post the article from the Reuters, the mark "Editor's note" is required when you want to say "...... the South China Sea (Editor's note: xxx Sea)", because the original Reuters article has NO intension to call South China Sea with another name, so you need to tell your readers the name "xxx Sea" is actually coming from your own editors, not coming from Reuters.

I believe I've been clear enough in this case. I'll stop the education. As I said already, such silly tricks you and your media is playing with could only humiliate your own country.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## yusheng

Chinese defence facilities are installing

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## yusheng

September 19 to 21, the PLAN South China Sea Fleet landing ship drilled known as the "new hovercraft bison" landing craft for combat based courses assessment

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## cochine

GS Zhou said:


> I don't care what the PH officer is talking about. That is not the core of our debate.
> 
> The core of our discussion is, when some media (Media A) is quoting the article from another media (Media B), Media A needs to make clear indication about which part of the article is coming from the original author (Media B), which part is coming from the editor of Media A.
> 
> Like in the case about your VN media post the article from the Reuters, the mark "Editor's note" is required when you want to say "...... the South China Sea (Editor's note: xxx Sea)", because the original Reuters article has NO intension to call South China Sea with another name, so you need to tell your readers the name "xxx Sea" is actually coming from your own editors, not coming from Reuters.
> 
> I believe I've been clear enough in this case. I'll stop the education. As I said already, such silly tricks you and your media is playing with could only humiliate your own country.



dont forget that some chinese member on this forum said that " south china sea " does mean that there is south sea of China.

To prevent that in future china could say that VNA has said "south china sea" in his report, so Vietnam VNA has accepted there is sea belong to China.

In fact South China Sea or India Ocean is called by westerner for navigation only.

We do know well about mentality of Chinese. so why VNA is very carefully handling with this matter.


----------



## grey boy 2

1000 tons class "Seawater *Desalination* facility" started to operate in (永兴岛)Yongxing Island 
三沙永兴千吨海水淡化厂10月1日投入使用。南海网记者高鹏摄

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cochine

*Singapore 'disappointed' with 'irresponsible report' by Global Times on NAM Summit: MFA*

Posted 27 Sep 2016 00:45

Updated 28 Sep 2016 03:08






The Non-Aligned Movement recently held its 17th Summit in Venezuela. (Photo: AFP/Ronaldo Schemidt)


SINGAPORE: Singapore's Ambassador to China on Monday (Sep 26) expressed the city-state's disappointment at a report by Chinese newspaper Global Times, alleging that Singapore had acted inappropriately at the recent Non-Aligned Movement (NAM) Summit held in Venezuela. 

In a letter to the Global Times' editor-in-chief Hu Xijin, Ambassador Stanley Loh refuted the newspaper's report, stating that it "attributed actions and words to Singapore which are false and unfounded".

*The report, published online on Sep 21, said Singapore wanted to include Philippines' position on the South China Sea dispute in the NAM Final Document at the last minute, which was met with opposition by many countries. *

It said as a result, Singapore's delegation at the summit was unhappy and responded with "inappropriate" remarks during discussions. The report also alleged that Singapore openly challenged NAM chair Venezuela's position on the matter.

"Singapore acted out of self-interest and caused many discussions to drag on late into the night, upsetting many countries," the report claimed.

Additionally, the Global Times report said Singapore's reaction to the Hague's ruling on the South China Sea was "disappointing", especially as it is the country coordinator for ASEAN-China relations.

In response, Mr Loh said in his letter that the proposal to update the Southeast Asia paragraphs in the NAM Final Document was not done at the last minute, nor by any single ASEAN country. Neither did the Singapore delegation raise the South China Sea or the tribunal ruling at the NAM Summit, he wrote.

Ambassador Loh's response is reproduced in full below:

"Dear Editor-in-Chief Hu,


The Global Times (Chinese) article dated 21 September 2016 regarding the 17th Non-Aligned Movement (NAM) Summit attributed actions and words to Singapore which are false and unfounded.

Firstly, the proposal to update the Southeast Asia paragraphs in the NAM Final Document was not done at the last minute nor by any single ASEAN country. There was a common and united ASEAN position. It was a consensus position of all ten ASEAN members, based on agreed language from the Joint Communique of the 49th ASEAN Foreign Ministers Meeting. As the current ASEAN Chair, Laos conveyed the group’s common position through a formal letter to the former-NAM Chair Iran in July 2016. Subsequently, Iran circulated ASEAN’s updates to all NAM Members on Jul 29, 2016.

Secondly, the NAM Chair refused ASEAN’s request to abide by the established practice in NAM for regional groupings to update the paragraphs of their respective regions in the NAM Final Document, without interference from non-regional NAM countries or external parties. If this important principle is not respected, any non-regional NAM member or external element could in future impose their views on any regional issue. This is not in the interests of the NAM and its members. The paragraphs on Southeast Asia, including those referring to the South China Sea, have been part of the NAM Final Document since 1992, and regularly updated based on the common position of the ASEAN countries.

Thirdly, contrary to the claim fabricated by the Global Times, the Singapore delegation did not raise the South China Sea or the tribunal ruling at the NAM Summit. Singapore adopted a principled position throughout and intervened to support the common position of ASEAN and defend NAM principles and established practices. Singapore believes that it is detrimental to the unity, impartiality and future of the NAM to allow NAM principles to be undermined.

The following additional facts clearly refute the allegations in the article:

i. Only a very small number of NAM Members outside Southeast Asia raised objections to ASEAN’s updates at the NAM Senior Officials’ Meeting at Margarita Island. However, substantive discussions were regrettably blocked.

ii. As Chairman of ASEAN, Laos protested on behalf of all ten ASEAN countries to the NAM Chair on its improper decision to reject ASEAN’s updates. Several other countries also objected to the breach of this well-established NAM principle.

iii. At the end of the 17th NAM Summit, Laos as Chair of ASEAN wrote to the Venezuelan Foreign Minister to put on record ASEAN’s collective reservation to a paragraph in the Southeast Asia section of the NAM Final Document that was not updated. The ASEAN Chair further requested that ASEAN’s proposed language be annexed to the NAM Final Document. A copy of the letter from Laos as Chair of ASEAN is attached.

We are disappointed that an established newspaper published this irresponsible report replete with fabrications and unfounded allegations with no regard for the facts. I request that in the interest of professionalism, objectivity and transparency, Global Times publishes this letter in full in Chinese and English, so that your readers may be accurately informed, and the close friendship between our two countries will not be inadvertently affected."

The letter from the Laos delegation is as follows:

"Excellency,

I would like to extend my friendly greeting to Your Excellency, and on behalf of 10 ASEAN member States attending the XVII NAM Ministerial Meeting, namely Brunei Darussalam, Cambodia, Indonesia, Laos, Malaysia, Myanmar, Philippine, Singapore, Thailand and Viet Nam, have the honour to reiterate that the question of South China Sea is a matter of vital interest for peace stability, security and cooperation in South East Asia. From the very beginning, ASEAN with a high respect to Venezuela Chair of XVII NAM Summit and with the strong aspiration to contribute to the success of this XVII NAM Summit, has been requesting extensive discussion and consultation with interested NAM members to reach an agreement on the issue.

Unfortunately our cooperative spirit and our constructive efforts have not been reciprocated. ASEAN, with a very deep regret and with the high respect to the President of the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela as the Chair of the XVII NAM Summit and to all distinguished NAM members, has to reiterate that ASEAN is not in a position to accept the paragraph relating to the South China Sea numbered 449 as reflected in the draft NAM Final Outcome Document received by member countries in the morning of 18 September 2016, as it does not reflect the current developments in the region. We would like to request the NAM Chair to put on record our reservation and incorporate in the NAM Final Outcome Document our reservation in the form of an Annex as follows:

'The Heads of State or Government reiterated the call to solve all sovereignty and territorial disputes in the South China Sea by peaceful means, without resorting to force and/or the threat to use force, in accordance with the universally recognized principles of international law, including the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea and the Charter of the United Nations. In this context, they urged all parties to ensure the full and effective implementation of the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea in its entirety to build, maintain and enhance mutual trust and confidence, to exercise self-restraint in the conduct of activities, and to work expeditiously for the early adoption of an effective Code of Conduct, which would help to promote international peace and stability in the region, with a view to creating a positive climate for the eventual resolution of all contentious issues, as mentioned in paragraph 2 of the Joint Commmunique of the 49th ASEAN Foreign Ministers’ Meeting in Vientiane, Laos dated 24 July 2016. They expressed their hope that all parties concerned would refrain from any actions that may undermine peace, stability, trust and confidence in the region. The Heads of State or Government shared serious concerns over recent and ongoing developments in the South China Sea and took note of the concerns expressed by some ministers/leaders on the land reclamations and escalation of activities in the area, including the increased presence of military assets and the possibility of further militarization of outposts in the South China Sea, which have eroded trust and confidence, increased tensions and may undermine peace, security and stability in the region. They emphasized the importance of non-militarisation and self-restraint in the conduct of all activities, including land reclamation that could further complicate the situation and escalate tensions in the South China Sea. They reaffirmed the importance of and their shared commitment to maintaining peace, security, stability, the freedom of navigation in and over-flight above the South China Sea, as provided for by the universally recognized principles of international law. To this end, they welcomed the adoption of the Guidelines for the Implementation of the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea in July 2011 in Bali and the Joint Statement of the 15th ASEAN-China Summit on 10th Anniversary of the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea in November 2012 in Phnom Penh. The Heads of State or Government also welcomed the Joint Statement by the Foreign Ministers of ASEAN Member States and China on the Full and Effective Implementation of the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea on 25 July 2016 in Vientiane. They further welcomed the positive contribution of the consultations at ASEAN-China dialogues, and the regular exchange of views at relevant ASEAN-led fora, and encouraged their continuance. The Heads of State or Government welcomed the progress made on some of the Early Harvest Measures, which includes adopting a 24-hour MFA-to-MFA hotline for maritime emergencies. They noted the ASEAN-China 25th Anniversary Commemorative Summit on 7 September 2016 in Vientiane, the 17th Joint Working Group on the implementation of the DOC on 8 June 2016 and the 12th Senior Official’s Meeting on the implementation of the DOC on 9 June 2016 in Ha Long Bay, Viet Nam.'

Therefore, ASEAN expresses its reservation on paragraph 449 of the XVII NAM Final Outcome Document, and with your permission, kindly requests that its reservation and this letter be put on record and included as annex of the Final Outcome Document.

Please accept, Excellency, the assurances of my highest consideration.

Kham-Inh Khitchadeth
Director General
SOM and Ministerial Leader of the Lao delegation"

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news...sponsible-report-by-global-times/3158046.html


----------



## TaiShang

grey boy 2 said:


> 1000 tons class "Seawater *Desalination* facility" started to operate in (永兴岛)Yongxing Island
> 三沙永兴千吨海水淡化厂10月1日投入使用。南海网记者高鹏摄




*New desalinator put into use in China's Sansha*
Xinhua, October 3, 2016

A 1,000-tonne-a-day desalination plant was put into use on Yongxing Island of China's Sansha City, to meet the fresh water need of people on the island.

*The new facility, which was officially commissioned on Saturday, is capable of treating 1,000 tonnes of seawater per day and 700 tonnes of processed water is directly drinkable.*

Currently, the desalination equipment on Yongxing Island can process 1,800 tonnes of seawater per day.

Sansha City was officially established in 2012 to administer the Xisha, Zhongsha and Nansha island groups and their surrounding waters in the South China Sea. The city government is located on Yongxing Island.



kecho said:


> Neither did the Singapore delegation raise the South China Sea or the tribunal ruling at the NAM Summit, he wrote.



Good. They are being good boys and trying to prove it.

Global Times did well on this by forcing Singapore to clear their position.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cochine

*US, Vietnam Boost Naval Cooperation with NEA 2016*
Washington and Hanoi kick off the seventh iteration of their naval engagement activity.





By Prashanth Parameswaran
October 02, 2016





The USNS Richard E. Byrd at anchor in Vietnam's Cam Ranh Bay while undergoing a routine seven-day maintenance availability.
Image Credit: Flickr/US Pacific Fleet

On September 28, the United States and Vietnam kicked off the seventh iteration of their naval engagement in Da Nang.

As I have noted previously, though the United States refers to its naval interactions with Southeast Asian states such as the Southeast Asia Cooperation and Training (SEACAT) and the Cooperation Afloat Readiness and Training (CARAT) as exercises, those with Vietnam continue to be referred to on their own as a Naval Engagement Activity (NEA) (See: “Interview: The Future of US Military Exercises in the Asia-Pacific”).

Nonetheless, NEA Vietnam has evolved over the years from mere port visits to multi-day bilateral naval engagements ashore and at sea, with a U.S. littoral combat ship (LCS) participating last year for the first time.

*Enjoying this article?* Click here to subscribe for full access. Just $5 a month.
On Wednesday, the 7th annual Naval Engagement Activity (NEA) with Vietnam began with a welcome ceremony at Tien Sa Port in Da Nang. NEA Vietnam 2016 will include a range of non-combat events including symposia on military medicine and maritime law, subject matter exchanges, community service events, according to a press release by Task Force 73, the task force of the U.S. Navy that helps oversee the planning and execution of the CARAT exercises.

This year will also see some notable firsts, including the expansion of the sea phase to incorporate a more complex event involving the Code for Unplanned Encounters at Sea (CUES) and a search and rescue scenario. U.S. assets participating in the exercise will include the guided missile destroyer USS _John S. McCain_.

The exercise is occurring amid increasing momentum in the U.S.-Vietnam defense relationship, with future developments expected including the naval domain (See: “U.S.-Vietnam Defense Relations: Problems and Prospects”). In May, U.S. President Barack Obama had announced the historic lifting of a decades-old embargo on the sale of arms to Hanoi (See: “Why Obama’s Lifting of the Vietnam Arms Embargo Matters”).

http://thediplomat.com/2016/10/us-vietnam-boost-naval-cooperation-with-nea-2016/


----------



## cirr

You guys(Viets) will soon be naked to Chinese eyes 

*Mystic Bar-shaped Facilities on China’s Artificial Cuarteron Island*
*
Posted:* October 6, 2016 | *Author:* chankaiyee2 





The above September-3 satellite photo of China’s artificial island on Cuarteron Reef shows that the island is filled with mystic bar-shaped facilities. No one knows what the facilities are and why they have been built there.





To have a clearer image, we have above the satellite photo of a corner of the artificial island bar-shaped facilities there.





The above is a photo of China’s artificial island on Cuarteron Reef taken in July before the facilities were built there.

A comparison between the two photos is given below:





Source: mil.news.sina.com.cn “What are the bar-shaped facilities? Disclosure of new photo of Cuarteron Island” (summary by Chan Kai Yee based on the report in Chinese)

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cochine

*


cirr said:



You guys(Viets) will soon be naked to Chinese eyes 

Click to expand...

*
Chinese thief invaded in to neighbors house, to be seen neighbors are naked...in chinese eyes. Yes, at nights, time to time we are naked.

*
Russia Hints at Reclaiming Cuba, Vietnam Bases in Test for U.S.*

*http://finance.yahoo.com/news/russia-hints-reclaiming-cuba-vietnam-152349052.html*

Threatening to open Cold War wounds and further aggravate ties with the U.S. that are already strained by the conflict in Syria, a senior Russian defense official said the military is considering a possible return to its Soviet-era bases in Cuba and Vietnam.

In the clearest confirmation to date that Russia may scrap its decision to withdraw from the two countries more than a decade ago, Deputy Defense Minister Nikolai Pankov told lawmakers in Moscow on Friday that the military is revisiting the issue, without providing more details, according to the state-run Tass news service. Responding to a question about the plans, President Vladimir Putin’s spokesman, Dmitry Peskov, said the global security situation has become “rather fluid” after “substantial changes” over the past two years.

“It’s natural that all countries are assessing these changes in accordance with their national interests and taking certain measures they consider necessary,” Peskov said, referring more detailed questions to the Defense Ministry.

A move to reclaim the bases, abandoned shortly after Putin came to power in 2000, would further expose fault lines of the Cold War standoff with the U.S. as the two former rivals now duel over the 5 1/2 year war in Syria. While Russia withdrew from Cuba and Vietnam, it kept its small base in the Syrian port of Tartus, the only naval facility it’s maintained outside the former Soviet Union.

Since Putin entered the conflict in the Middle Eastern country on behalf of President Bashar al-Assad a year ago, Russia has now added a second base in Syria’s Khmeimim, used for conducting air raids against groups opposed to government forces there. The lower house of parliament on Friday ratified a treaty that allows Russia to keep the air base in Syria indefinitely.

*Deepening Rift*
The U.S. has blamed Putin’s government for indiscriminate bombing that has killed civilians and targeted hospitals in Syria, cutting bilateral discussions with Russia over the conflict after a Sept. 9 cease-fire deal collapsed within days. Russia hasn’t budged from its support for Assad, continuing to back the Syrian regime’s bombardments in Aleppo, where the United Nations estimates 275,000 people are trapped.

U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry on Friday called for an investigation into possible war crimes in Syria after a hospital bombardment killed 20 people, saying that Russia and Assad’s regime “owe the world more than an explanation” for the attack.

The clashing views are reviving tensions started by the separatist war in Ukraine, with the U.S. and the European Union accusing Russia of backing the insurgency. Russia’s expanding military presence, from Vietnam to Latin America, has already drawn notice from the U.S.

*Cuba, Vietnam*
The State Department last year confirmed then that the U.S. was pressing Vietnam to bar Russian military aircraft from refueling at the former American base at Cam Ranh Bay, while a U.S. commander raised concerns about Russia’s military activities in the Western Hemisphere. The facility in Cam Ranh Bay, a U.S. base during the Vietnam War, was a Soviet naval base until 2002.

In 2012, a senior military official in Moscow said that Russia was in talks to set up resupply bases in Cuba after undertaking its biggest military overhaul since the Soviet era. Putin visited the Caribbean island in 2014, with Russia writing off $32 billion of Cuba’s Soviet-era debt.

Under the deal that ended the 1962 Cuban crisis, the Soviet Union withdrew its missiles on the island and pledged not to station offensive weapons. Russian military cooperation with Cuba ended in 2002 after Russia closed its radar base at Lourdes, Russia’s only intelligence-gathering center in the Western Hemisphere, which had been operating since the 1960s.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cochine

*Vietnam opposes China’s election in so-called Sansha city
*
_China’s election of deputies to the People’s Congress in the so-called Sansha city illegally built by the country and the illegal patrol in the Hoang Sa (Paracel) archipelago area is a serious violation of Vietnam’s sovereignty, Foreign Ministry’s spokesman Le Hai Binh said on October 3. _

_



_

_Foreign Ministry’s spokesman Le Hai Binh
_


He made the statement in reply to reporters’ queries about Vietnam’s position on China’s aforementioned moves, noting that Vietnam has sufficient legal and historic evidence affirming its sovereignty over Hoang Sa and Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelagos. 

According to him, such illegal actions could not change the truth about Vietnam’s sovereignty over Hoang Sa and Truong Sa. 

Vietnam resolutely opposes and asks China to respect Vietnam’s sovereignty, immediately end above wrongful actions, seriously abide by the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the East Sea (DOC) and the Agreement on basic principles guiding the settlement of issues at sea between Vietnam and China, he said.

_VNA_


----------



## eldamar

kecho said:


> *Vietnam opposes China’s election in so-called Sansha city
> *
> _China’s election of deputies to the People’s Congress in the so-called Sansha city illegally built by the country and the illegal patrol in the Hoang Sa (Paracel) archipelago area is a serious violation of Vietnam’s sovereignty, Foreign Ministry’s spokesman Le Hai Binh said on October 3. _
> 
> _
> 
> 
> 
> _
> 
> _Foreign Ministry’s spokesman Le Hai Binh
> _
> 
> 
> He made the statement in reply to reporters’ queries about Vietnam’s position on China’s aforementioned moves, noting that Vietnam has sufficient legal and historic evidence affirming its sovereignty over Hoang Sa and Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelagos.
> 
> According to him, such illegal actions could not change the truth about Vietnam’s sovereignty over Hoang Sa and Truong Sa.
> 
> Vietnam resolutely opposes and asks China to respect Vietnam’s sovereignty, immediately end above wrongful actions, seriously abide by the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the East Sea (DOC) and the Agreement on basic principles guiding the settlement of issues at sea between Vietnam and China, he said.
> 
> _VNA_



China has heard you. So what can the Vietnamese do?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cochine

eldarlmari said:


> China has heard you. So what can the Vietnamese do?



Protest all kind of illegal activities of China in sea territory of Vietnam.

Last update 00:42 | 11/10/2016
 


*Da Nang protests China’s election in so-called Sansha city
*
_The central city of Da Nang has opposed China’s organisation of an election for the so-called Sansha city in the East Sea. _

Chairman of the Da Nang People’s Committee Huynh Duc Tho issued a statement of opposition on October 10. 

He noted that Da Nang city’s administration is once again seriously concerned about China’s organisation of an election of deputies to a People’s Congress of the so-called Sansha city on September 22. 

The election organisation in the area that is part of Hoang Sa (Paracel) and Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelagos has seriously violated Vietnam’s sovereignty, he stressed. 

“Da Nang city resolutely rejects and strongly objects to the abovementioned action and demands China not repeat similar actions,” Tho emphasised.
_VNA_


----------



## eldamar

kecho said:


> Protest all kind of illegal activities of China in sea territory of Vietnam.
> 
> Last update 00:42 | 11/10/2016
> 
> 
> 
> *Da Nang protests China’s election in so-called Sansha city
> *
> _The central city of Da Nang has opposed China’s organisation of an election for the so-called Sansha city in the East Sea. _
> 
> Chairman of the Da Nang People’s Committee Huynh Duc Tho issued a statement of opposition on October 10.
> 
> He noted that Da Nang city’s administration is once again seriously concerned about China’s organisation of an election of deputies to a People’s Congress of the so-called Sansha city on September 22.
> 
> The election organisation in the area that is part of Hoang Sa (Paracel) and Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelagos has seriously violated Vietnam’s sovereignty, he stressed.
> 
> “Da Nang city resolutely rejects and strongly objects to the abovementioned action and demands China not repeat similar actions,” Tho emphasised.
> _VNA_



ok keep protesting. U can protest all you want. Nobody will stop you.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cochine

eldarlmari said:


> ok keep protesting. U can protest all you want. Nobody will stop you.



The game to protect Vietnam sea territory is just going on. China can't swallow our coral reefs so illegally with force and mad claimations on it.


----------



## eldamar

kecho said:


> The game to protect Vietnam sea territory is just going on. China can't swallow our coral reefs so illegally with force and claimations on it.



yes u can protest all u want. hired a group of demonstrators paid by the hour to do it

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cochine

eldarlmari said:


> yes u can protest all u want. hired a group of demonstrators paid by the hour to do it



vietnamese is hatred toward China with her expansionism. VN police has tried best to make people was calmed down recently.. .No needed to pay for them to gather for anti-China demonstration.

If Chinese Singapore kid like you are not to be neural in this dispute. Chinese expansionism is threatened to sovereignty of Ma lai xi a too, so Malaysian can take back singapore island to her back , and Chinese Singaporian can move back to your native home land, there is China.

too many hua chinese immigrated to South east asia is no good.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## terranMarine

How come i keep smelling Kecho's fear and anger every time?  Does China scare you that much?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## GS Zhou

eldarlmari said:


> yes u can protest all u want. hired a group of demonstrators paid by the hour to do it


dissolve its army to save the expense for hiring a division of elite lawyers maybe a better solution to them

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cochine

Last update 12:34 | 11/10/2016
 


*Khanh Hoa leader opposes China’s election in so-called ‘Sansha’ city
*
_Chairman of the People’s Committee of central Khanh Hoa province Le Duc Vinh has rejected China’s election of deputies to the People’s Congress in the so-called ‘Sansha’ city._

In a statement posted on Khanh Hoa province’s e-portal on October 10, the official affirmed that Truong Sa (Spratly) island district is an integral part of Vietnam’s territory and under Khanh Hoa’s administrative management.

“Khanh Hoa’s authorities and people are discontented with China’s election in the so-called Sansha city illegally set up by the country, covering Vietnam’s Truong Sa island district,” he said, stressing that the election seriously violated Vietnam’s sovereignty.

Khanh Hoa resolutely rejects the above-motioned illegal deed and asks China not to repeat such an action harming the relationship between the two countries, the friendship between their people and the feelings of citizens in Khanh Hoa, he said.
_VNA_


----------



## ashok321

*China developing world's smallest nuclear reactor for South China Sea islands*


http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/world-news/china-developing-worlds-smallest-nuclear-reactor-for-south-china-sea-islands/articleshow/54796477.cms
*




*


BEIJING: China is developing the world's smallest nuclear power plant which could be installed in one of the islands in the disputed South China Sea to supply power to households and is capable of running for up to decades without refuelling, a media report said today. 

Modelled on the compact lead-cooled thermal reactor used by the navy of the former Soviet Union in its nuclear submarines in the 1970s, Chinese researchers are carrying out intensive work to develop "portable nuclear battery pack" within five years, Hong Kong-based South China Morning Post reported. 

Earlier, the official media reports said China will soon start assembling floating maritime nuclear power platforms. 

State-run Global Times had quoted China National Nuclear Cooperation (CNNC) as saying that China plans to build 20 floating nuclear power to beef up the power and water supplies on the South China Sea (SCS) islands. 

China has been building infrastructure in the disputed islands as it consolidated its hold on the area after an international tribunal quashed its claims over almost all of the SCS. The strategic waters through which over USD 5 trillion of goods pass annually has rival claims over it by the Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan. 

The floating nuclear power plants were aimed at providing power to the remote islands as power cannot be supplied from Chinese mainland. 

The smallest lead-cooled reactor could be placed inside a shipping container measuring about 6.1 metres long and 2.6 metres high but would be able to generate 10 megawatts of heat, which, if converted into electricity, would be enough to power some 50,000 households, the Post report said. 

It is also capable of running for years or even decades without refuelling, and scientists say that because it produces neither dust nor smoke, even on a small island a resident would hardly notice its existence, the report said. 

The research is partially funded by the People's Liberation Army. 

Researchers at the Chinese Academy of Sciences' Institute of Nuclear Energy Safety Technology, a national research institute in Hefei, Anhui province, say they hope to be able to ship the first unit within five years. 

"Part of our funding came from the military, but we hope - and it's our ultimate goal - that the technology will eventually benefit civilian users," Professor Huang Qunying, a nuclear scientist involved in the research, said. 

However, China would probably be the first nation to use such military technology on land, the Post report said. 

While these "baby" reactors would able to generate large quantities of electricity and desalinate huge supplies of seawater for use as fresh water, they have also attracted serious environmental concerns. 

A marine environment researcher at the Ocean University of China, in Qingdao, Shandong province, requesting anonymity warned that the inevitable discharge of hot, radioactive water from a nuclear plant into the ocean might alter the ecological system of an entire region around an island.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cochine

*NZ Defence Minister expresses stance on East Sea in Beijing*


New Zealand Defence Minister Gerry Brownlee expressed his support to arbitral process at the seventh Xiangshan Forum in Beijing on October 11, saying that the reclamation, construction and militarisation in the East Sea is to blame for escalating tension.

_



_

Expressing concern over the East Sea issue, Brownlee stressed that New Zealand opposes actions that undermine peace and erode trust, and would like to see all parties actively take steps to reduce those tensions.

"As a small maritime trading nation, international law and, in particular, the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, is important for New Zealand”, he said, adding that he believes countries have the right to seek international resolution such as arbitral process.

This isn't the first time New Zealand has raised its voice on the East Sea issue. According to Reuters, in February, New Zealand urged for Chinese restraint after Beijing's apparent deployment of an advanced missile system on an East Sea island, while Beijing said New Zealand's proposal is unconstructive.

The seventh Xiangshan Forum, co-hosted by the Chinese Association for Military Science and the China Institute for International Strategic Studies, officially opened in Beijing on October 11.

Themed “Build a New Type of International Relations through Security Dialogue and Cooperation”, this year’s event attracts nearly 400 military officials and specialists from around the globe. It focuses on responding to new security challenges in Asia-Pacific through cooperation, role of militaries in global governance, maritime security cooperation, and international terrorist threats and countermeasures.
_VNA_


----------



## TaiShang

@kecho , your protests appear to be working...

***

*US Intel: Beijing Has Military Gear on Artificial Islands in South China Sea*

12.10.2016

The American spy agency that provides the Pentagon with assistance for the ongoing Pivot to Asia US military strategy has claimed that the artificial islands that China has constructed in the South China Sea are military installations.

China has been building artificial islands on reefs and rock outcroppings in the Spratly and Paracel archipelagos over the course of the past two years. During this period small clusters of sensitive reef habitat have been turned into large islands, with various structures, including a 3,000-meter runway.
...

In a recent development, the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency (NGA), a Pentagon-based group providing and analyzing imagery intelligence gathered with the use of satellites, has claimed that it has proof that Chinese construction efforts in the South China Sea are not civilian in nature.

Speaking at a recent congressional hearing, NGA head Robert Cardillo explained that the agency analyzed imagery taken from satellites, and had spotted “military-related structures and equipment that at least gives the Chinese the option to permanently post military forces in and on these islands.”

Read more: https://sputniknews.com/asia/201610121046243825-china-military-gear-islands-south-china-sea/

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## eldamar

kecho said:


> vietnamese is hatred toward China with her expansionism. VN police has tried best to make people was calmed down recently.. .No needed to pay for them to gather for anti-China demonstration.
> 
> If Chinese Singapore kid like you are not to be neural in this dispute. Chinese expansionism is threatened to sovereignty of Ma lai xi a too, so Malaysian can take back singapore island to her back , and Chinese Singaporian can move back to your native home land, there is China.
> 
> too many hua chinese immigrated to South east asia is no good.



You can protest all you want, protest by yelling n crying until your voicebox burst- nobody will cry. I dont think China is about to 'surrender' those islands jsut becos of your protesting.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## terranMarine

eldarlmari said:


> You can protest all you want, protest by yelling n crying until your voicebox burst- nobody will cry. I dont think China is about to 'surrender' those islands jsut becos of your protesting.


Not many country backs Vietnam actually. Up to 60-70 countries backed China in the arbitration case whereas PH can only enjoy support from a couple of countries while the rest rather stay neutral. He can keep posting this or that protest against China which he has been doing for some years under other accounts. At the end of the day China is expanding massively with land reclamation and construction. Nobody is doing anything to challenge China's activities in SCS end of story.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cochine

eldarlmari said:


> You can protest all you want, protest by yelling n crying until your voicebox burst- nobody will cry. I dont think China is about to 'surrender' those islands jsut becos of your protesting.





terranMarine said:


> Not many country backs Vietnam actually. Up to 60-70 countries backed China in the arbitration case whereas PH can only enjoy support from a couple of countries while the rest rather stay neutral. He can keep posting this or that protest against China which he has been doing for some years under other accounts. At the end of the day China is expanding massively with land reclamation and construction. Nobody is doing anything to challenge China's activities in SCS end of story.



Vietnamese looks always directly to the true face of our enemies, event though there was France, US or China CPC, in the past and nowadays. no one cry here kids ! To protect our sea souvereignity, here is the new battle geopolitically, its just beginning.

China is loser under PCA ruling award following terms and conditions of UNCLOS. It is big victory for people in south east asia and big shame for big China, the country is member UNSC.


----------



## eldamar

kecho said:


> Vietnamese looks always directly to the true face of our enemies, event though there was France, US or China CPC, in the past and nowadays. no one cry here kids ! To protect our sea souvereignity, here is the new battle geopolitically, its just beginning.
> 
> China is loser under PCA ruling award following terms and conditions of UNCLOS. It is big victory for people in south east asia and big shame for big China, the country is member UNSC.



yayayayayyayaaa whatever. no matter what u argue, the islands are still in China's hands.



terranMarine said:


> How come i keep smelling Kecho's fear and anger every time?  Does China scare you that much?



becos they are just like what he said- they can only protest all day, but take no concrete action.

他们只能抗议, 却但无法采取任何实际行动

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cochine

*LOOK: Commissioning of brand new Japan-made Coast Guard vessel for Phillipine.*

October 13, 2016 Caleb Velasquez Nation 0

ShareTweet







Government photo
President Rodrigo Duterte on Wednesday thanked Japan for its continued assistance, including patrol ships, to the country. President Duterte expressed his appreciation to the Japanese people during the 115th anniversary of the Philippine Coast Guard (PCG) and the commissioning ceremony of BRP Tubbataha, the first of ten Japan-made Parola-class 44-meter patrol vessels.

Japanese Ambassador to the Philippines Kazuhide Ishikawa attended the said ceremony at the PCG headquarters in Port Area, Manila October 12.

The Philippine government has ordered 10 Parola-class patrol vessels from Japan through the Maritime Safety Capability Improvement Project (MSCIP) Phase I. Parola-class patrol vessel is a 44-meter Multi-Role Response Vessel (MRRV) built by Japanese shipbuilder Japan Marine United (JMU).

The second Parola-class patrol vessel is expected to sail to the Philippines this December and will be named as BRP Malabrigo (MRRV-4402). Succeeding deliveries are expected every quarter until completion of 10 units in 2018.





Government photo




Government photo



eldarlmari said:


> These islands- the south china sea islands(xisha, parts of nansha) *are indeed in China's hands now*- every1 knows that. Whats wrong with me stating this fact? and what has it got to do with China lands being in japan's hands during ww2?
> 
> blind nationalism will lead u nowhere. u make so much noise, and u can only make noise anyway, cos vietnam is impotent and incapable of doing anything regarding these islands
> 
> thus, keep protesting- i will cheerlead for you.



I do my comparison on your comment, China stolen our Islands with force, This occupation with force is illegal. Do you understand ?

PCA ruling said that nine dashed line and historical claim of China is illegal. Problem here is clear.


----------



## grey boy 2

kecho said:


> *LOOK: Commissioning of brand new Japan-made Coast Guard vessel for Phillipine.*
> 
> October 13, 2016 Caleb Velasquez Nation 0
> 
> ShareTweet
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Government photo
> President Rodrigo Duterte on Wednesday thanked Japan for its continued assistance, including patrol ships, to the country. President Duterte expressed his appreciation to the Japanese people during the 115th anniversary of the Philippine Coast Guard (PCG) and the commissioning ceremony of BRP Tubbataha, the first of ten Japan-made Parola-class 44-meter patrol vessels.
> 
> Japanese Ambassador to the Philippines Kazuhide Ishikawa attended the said ceremony at the PCG headquarters in Port Area, Manila October 12.
> 
> The Philippine government has ordered 10 Parola-class patrol vessels from Japan through the Maritime Safety Capability Improvement Project (MSCIP) Phase I. Parola-class patrol vessel is a 44-meter Multi-Role Response Vessel (MRRV) built by Japanese shipbuilder Japan Marine United (JMU).
> 
> The second Parola-class patrol vessel is expected to sail to the Philippines this December and will be named as BRP Malabrigo (MRRV-4402). Succeeding deliveries are expected every quarter until completion of 10 units in 2018.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Government photo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Government photo
> 
> 
> 
> I do my comparison on your comment, China stolen our Islands with force, This occupation with force is illegal. Do you understand ?
> 
> PCA ruling said that nine dashed line and historical claim of China is illegal. Problem here is clear.



Thanks for the good laugh 不漏洞拉




http://cimsec.org/east-asian-security-age-chinese-mega-cutter/16974:china:

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## eldamar

kecho said:


> *LOOK: Commissioning of brand new Japan-made Coast Guard vessel for Phillipine.*
> 
> October 13, 2016 Caleb Velasquez Nation 0
> 
> ShareTweet
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Government photo
> President Rodrigo Duterte on Wednesday thanked Japan for its continued assistance, including patrol ships, to the country. President Duterte expressed his appreciation to the Japanese people during the 115th anniversary of the Philippine Coast Guard (PCG) and the commissioning ceremony of BRP Tubbataha, the first of ten Japan-made Parola-class 44-meter patrol vessels.
> 
> Japanese Ambassador to the Philippines Kazuhide Ishikawa attended the said ceremony at the PCG headquarters in Port Area, Manila October 12.
> 
> The Philippine government has ordered 10 Parola-class patrol vessels from Japan through the Maritime Safety Capability Improvement Project (MSCIP) Phase I. Parola-class patrol vessel is a 44-meter Multi-Role Response Vessel (MRRV) built by Japanese shipbuilder Japan Marine United (JMU).
> 
> The second Parola-class patrol vessel is expected to sail to the Philippines this December and will be named as BRP Malabrigo (MRRV-4402). Succeeding deliveries are expected every quarter until completion of 10 units in 2018.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Government photo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Government photo
> 
> 
> 
> I do my comparison on your comment, China stolen our Islands with force, This occupation with force is illegal. Do you understand ?
> 
> PCA ruling said that nine dashed line and historical claim of China is illegal. Problem here is clear.



Xisha islands is of almsot equal distance from vietnam and hainan island- its not been covered by any ruling. stop trolling.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cochine

ecurity-age-chinese-mega-cutter/16974:china:[/QUOTE]


eldarlmari said:


> Xisha islands is of almsot equal distance from vietnam and hainan island- its not been covered by any ruling. stop trolling.



PCA ruling said that " nine dashed line" claim by China is illegal. 

It is included Paracel Island of Vietnam.

*Vietnam says no to foreign military base on its soil*
By Reuters/My Pham October 13, 2016 | 10:16 pm GMT+7




Vietnam Foreign Ministry spokesman Le Hai Binh. Photo by Reuters/Kham
*The message comes just a week after Russia said it was considering plans to restore a Soviet-era military base in Vietnam.*
Vietnam said today it would not allow other countries to set up military bases there, just days after Russia said it was considering reopening Soviet-era bases in Vietnam and Cuba.

Russian news agencies last week quoted a Russian deputy defense minister as saying Russia was considering plans to restore the bases that had served as pivots for Soviet global military power during the Cold War.

"Vietnam's consistent policy is not to engage a military ally or engage with any country to oppose a third country," Foreign Ministry spokesman Le Hai Binh told a news briefing.

"We will also not allow any other countries to set up a military base in Vietnam."

While pursuing a neutral foreign policy and allowing port calls by foreign warships, Vietnam still bars any permanent presence by foreign military forces.

Russia, which inherits a long relationship with Vietnam, withdrew from the deepwater Cam Ranh naval base in the early 2000s as part of its drawing down of military presence around the world after the demise of the Soviet Union.

Cam Ranh is the jewel in the crown of Vietnam's military, with an air base once used by the U.S. and Soviet forces and a deep water bay home to its modern, Russian-built submarines.

Visits by foreign ships are rare and usually restricted to maintenance. U.S., Japanese and French warships have recently made port calls at Cam Ranh.


----------



## eldamar

kecho said:


> ecurity-age-chinese-mega-cutter/16974:china:
> 
> 
> PCA ruling said that " nine dashed line" claim by China is illegal.
> 
> It is included Paracel Island of Vietnam.
> 
> *Vietnam says no to foreign military base on its soil*
> By Reuters/My Pham October 13, 2016 | 10:16 pm GMT+7
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vietnam Foreign Ministry spokesman Le Hai Binh. Photo by Reuters/Kham
> *The message comes just a week after Russia said it was considering plans to restore a Soviet-era military base in Vietnam.*
> Vietnam said today it would not allow other countries to set up military bases there, just days after Russia said it was considering reopening Soviet-era bases in Vietnam and Cuba.
> 
> Russian news agencies last week quoted a Russian deputy defense minister as saying Russia was considering plans to restore the bases that had served as pivots for Soviet global military power during the Cold War.
> 
> "Vietnam's consistent policy is not to engage a military ally or engage with any country to oppose a third country," Foreign Ministry spokesman Le Hai Binh told a news briefing.
> 
> "We will also not allow any other countries to set up a military base in Vietnam."
> 
> While pursuing a neutral foreign policy and allowing port calls by foreign warships, Vietnam still bars any permanent presence by foreign military forces.
> 
> Russia, which inherits a long relationship with Vietnam, withdrew from the deepwater Cam Ranh naval base in the early 2000s as part of its drawing down of military presence around the world after the demise of the Soviet Union.
> 
> Cam Ranh is the jewel in the crown of Vietnam's military, with an air base once used by the U.S. and Soviet forces and a deep water bay home to its modern, Russian-built submarines.
> 
> Visits by foreign ships are rare and usually restricted to maintenance. U.S., Japanese and French warships have recently made port calls at Cam Ranh.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cochine

eldarlmari said:


>



There is no joke my dude, China invaded in to Paracel Islands of Vietnam in 1974, Vietnamese civilians whos were ling in Paracel were captured by Chinese PLAN. 


China stolen with force is illegal.


----------



## grey boy 2

*"Junyang 1 *say Hi "

*Asia's biggest sand-dredging boat unveiled in Guangzhou*
(CRI Online) 14:37, October 13, 2016




*The biggest sand-dredging boat in Asia and one of the world's most advanced
*
The jumbo-sized boat can dredge approximately 20 thousand cubic meters of sand an hour with its rakes reaching as deep as 90 meters under the sea. Only three crew members are needed to operate the boat, as it is equipped with a self-control system.





http://en.people.cn/n3/2016/1013/c90000-9126613.html

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cochine

*Japan to provide patrol ships to Vietnam amid maritime row with China*


Reuters

Wednesday, September 07, 2016 20:32.

The Japanese government said on Wednesday it is ready to provide Vietnam with new patrol ships, in its latest step to boost the maritime law-enforcement capabilities of countries locked in territorial rows with China.
On Tuesday, Japan agreed to provide two large patrol ships and lend up to five used surveillance aircraft to the Philippines, another country at odds with China over sovereignty issues in the South China Sea.
Japan itself has been at loggerheads with China over a group of tiny, uninhabited East China Sea islets.
Prime Minister Shinzo Abe told his Vietnamese counterpart, Nguyen Xuan Phuc, of Tokyo's intention in their meeting on the sidelines of ASEAN-related meetings in Vientiane.





...... 

Japan has already provided six patrol ships to Vietnam, but they were all used ones, a Japanese foreign ministry official said, adding that details such as the timing of the delivery and the number of ships to be provided have yet to be fixed.
Japan plans to extend a low-interest loan under its official development assistance program to Vietnam to facilitate the acquisition.
China has laid claim to almost all of the South China Sea, where about $5 trillion worth of seaborne trade passes every year. Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines, Taiwan and Vietnam also have claims in the sea believed to have rich deposits of oil and gas.
A court of arbitration in The Hague in July said China's claims to the waterway were invalid, after a case was brought by the Philippines. Beijing has refused to recognize the ruling.


----------



## grey boy 2

kecho said:


> *Japan to provide patrol ships to Vietnam amid maritime row with China*
> 
> 
> Reuters
> 
> Wednesday, September 07, 2016 20:32.
> 
> The Japanese government said on Wednesday it is ready to provide Vietnam with new patrol ships, in its latest step to boost the maritime law-enforcement capabilities of countries locked in territorial rows with China.
> On Tuesday, Japan agreed to provide two large patrol ships and lend up to five used surveillance aircraft to the Philippines, another country at odds with China over sovereignty issues in the South China Sea.
> Japan itself has been at loggerheads with China over a group of tiny, uninhabited East China Sea islets.
> Prime Minister Shinzo Abe told his Vietnamese counterpart, Nguyen Xuan Phuc, of Tokyo's intention in their meeting on the sidelines of ASEAN-related meetings in Vientiane.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ......
> 
> Japan has already provided six patrol ships to Vietnam, but they were all used ones, a Japanese foreign ministry official said, adding that details such as the timing of the delivery and the number of ships to be provided have yet to be fixed.
> Japan plans to extend a low-interest loan under its official development assistance program to Vietnam to facilitate the acquisition.
> China has laid claim to almost all of the South China Sea, where about $5 trillion worth of seaborne trade passes every year. Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines, Taiwan and Vietnam also have claims in the sea believed to have rich deposits of oil and gas.
> A court of arbitration in The Hague in July said China's claims to the waterway were invalid, after a case was brought by the Philippines. Beijing has refused to recognize the ruling.



Thanks for providing daily jokes of "republic of 不漏洞拉"
"Day dreaming VS Reality" truth always hurts, sunny




http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...s-coast-guard-chases-boats-in-south-china-sea

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## GS Zhou

grey boy 2 said:


> Thanks for providing daily jokes of "republic of 不漏洞拉"
> "Day dreaming VS Reality" truth always hurts, sunny


The delivery of that boat is posting threaten to us. We should accelerate the pace of building coast guard ships. Seriously.

A corner of our many shipyards in one single moment, just count how many coast guard ships and navy frigates are being constructed simultaneously. 

你那么想要军备竞赛，那就军备竞赛好咯
If you wanna arms race, lets race.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## cochine

grey boy 2 said:


> Thanks for providing daily jokes of "republic of 不漏洞拉"
> "Day dreaming VS Reality" truth always hurts, sunny
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...s-coast-guard-chases-boats-in-south-china-sea

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## bhedgehog

kecho said:


>


Deprecated Russian junks. And numbers are too small.

In China such weapons can only serve in 2nd or 3rd tier units, although we have way much larger number of them or similar stuff.

BTW, does Vietnam even has a modern C4I system to full utilize the capabilities of your imported toys? And they are super expensive to you, aren't they? Russians aways make BIG BIG money on selling expensive weapons to countries who cannot produce similar modern equipments themselves and rely on Russia as their only source... ...

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## eldamar

bhedgehog said:


> Deprecated Russian junks. And number s are way too small.
> 
> In China such weapons can only serve in 2nd or 3rd tier units, although we process much larger number of them or similar stuff.
> 
> Source: https://defence.pk/threads/south-china-sea-news-discussions.196058/page-723#ixzz4N4g9qoUs



any serious confrontation between china and vietnam would be settled on land- just a march down to hanoi from guangxi will solve all disputes.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## bhedgehog

kecho said:


>


Oh wait, do you know that China knows your new Russian weapons way much better than you do? 

Russians gave tons of classified information on those weapons to their big customer China, not to Vietnam I am afraid. Moreover we have been manufacturing and operating your newly purchased modles for decades and have been updating the deprecated modules using our own technology. So do not use Russian high tech weapons against China, not too wise......... They are not as simple as rifles after all.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## bhedgehog

eldarlmari said:


> any serious confrontation between china and vietnam would be settled on land- just a march down to hanoi from guangxi will solve all disputes.


Conflicts on land may easily cause casualties on both sides, no good for the side holding absolute technological advantage. For state such as Vietnam, a 0 casualty conflict is what China should try to achieve, as we did in 1988.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cochine

eldarlmari said:


> any serious confrontation between china and vietnam would be settled on land- just a march down to hanoi from guangxi will solve all disputes.



China ran back in 1979 with bloody nose.

Re-attacks shall be done in to cities in south China immedetly after first shot from China.













bhedgehog said:


> Conflicts on land may easily cause casualties on both sides, no good for the side holding absolute technological advantage. For state such as Vietnam, a 0 casualty conflict is what China should try to achieve, as we did in 1988.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## eldamar

kecho said:


> China ran back in 1979 with bloody nose.
> 
> Re-attacks shall be done in to cities in south China immedetly after first shot from China.



It's always been north attacking south- never south attacking north. cite an istance whereby the Vietnamese did a counter attack deep into guangxi

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cochine

eldarlmari said:


> It's always been north attacking south- never south attacking north. cite an istance whereby the Vietnamese did a counter attack deep into guangxi



Yes Chinese aggressors is very aggressive, it is truth, she is attacking Viet from not.. .But Viet is only re-attacking to counter all invasion of Chinese from north, so Chinese is ran back to China .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lý_Thường_Kiệt

preparing to re-attack on where the aggressor could be coming...


----------



## eldamar

kecho said:


> Yes Chinese aggressors is very aggressive, it is truth, she is attacking Viet from not.. .But Viet is only re-attacking to counter all invasion of Chinese from north, so Chinese is ran back to China .
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lý_Thường_Kiệt
> 
> preparing to re-attack on where the aggressor could be coming...



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_best_defense_is_a_good_offense

*Military[edit]*
George Washington wrote in 1799: "…make them believe, that offensive operations, often times, is the surest, if not the only (in some cases) means of defence".[1]

Mao Zedong opined that "the only real defense is active defense", meaning defense for the purpose of counter-attacking and taking the offensive.[2] Often success rests on destroying the enemy's ability to attack. This principle is paralleled in the writings of Machiavelli and Sun Tzu.[3]

Some martial arts emphasise attack over defense. Wing Chun, for example, is a style of Kung Fu which uses the maxim: "The hand which strikes also blocks."

During World War I, Germany planned to attack France so as to quickly knock it out of the war thereby reducing the Entente's numerical superiority and to free up German troops to head east and defeat Russia.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## TaiShang

*In pics: China's Nansha island airports*
(CRI Online) 10:26, October 16, 2016




The airport runway on Meiji Reef in the Nansha islands of South China Sea has currently been completed. Flights have been tested from three newly constructed airpots. The airports are capable of handling civil aviation flights and will facilitate transportation, emergency rescue and medical services for residents of the islands. [Photo: sina.com]





　　The airport runway on Meiji Reef in the Nansha islands of South China Sea has currently been completed. Flights have been tested from three newly constructed airpots. The airports are capable of handling civil aviation flights and will facilitate transportation, emergency rescue and medical services for residents of the islands. [Photo: sina.com]





　　The airport runway on Yongshu Reef in the Nansha islands of South China Sea has currently been completed. Flights have been tested from three newly constructed airpots. The airports are capable of handling civil aviation flights and will facilitate transportation, emergency rescue and medical services for residents of the islands. [Photo: sina.com]





　　The airport runway on Yongshu Reef in the Nansha islands of South China Sea has currently been completed. Flights have been tested from three newly constructed airpots. The airports are capable of handling civil aviation flights and will facilitate transportation, emergency rescue and medical services for residents of the islands. [Photo: sina.com]





　　A patrol aircraft lands on the airport on Yongshu Reef in the Nansha islands of South China Sea. [Photo: CCTV]





　　The airport runway on Yongshu Reef in the Nansha islands of South China Sea has currently been completed. Flights have been tested from three newly constructed airpots. The airports are capable of handling civil aviation flights and will facilitate transportation, emergency rescue and medical services for residents of the islands. [Photo: sina.com]





　　A passenger jet of Hainan Airlines lands at the airport on Zhubi Reef, July 13, 2016. [Photo: Xinhua]






　　The airport runway on Zhubi Reef in the Nansha islands of South China Sea has currently been completed. Flights have been tested from three newly constructed airpots. The airports are capable of handling civil aviation flights and will facilitate transportation, emergency rescue and medical services for residents of the islands. [Photo: sina.com]

@kecho

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## eldamar

kecho said:


> This is illegal construction works made by China and got meaningless. China stolen corel reefs of Vietnam with force in 1988, is same what Japan did in the past in North East China's land in WW II or Japan had annexed Taiwan to Japan territory after First Sino-Japan war 1895..
> 
> Based on PCI ruling on SCS dispute, China "nine dashed line" and "historical sea territory" claimed by China is illegal.



same thing: Spratly island itself, of which Spratly islands is collectively named after- is illegally occupied by Vietnam now, and China will get it back

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Viet

eldarlmari said:


> It's always been north attacking south- never south attacking north. cite an istance whereby the Vietnamese did a counter attack deep into *guangxi*


do you feel happy? I wonder too why it is always Japan that attacks China but never vice versa?

sure, Vietnam army under the Ly once staged a pre-emptive strike, annihilating the Song army in Guangzhou and Guangxi.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cochine

eldarlmari said:


> same thing: Spratly island itself, of which Spratly islands is collectively named after- is illegally occupied by Vietnam now, and China will get it back



stop lie here my dude. Spratly and Paracel was controlled and part of Vietnam sovereignty from long time in the past .

claim and occupation of china is illegal.

Full map òf China KMT printed in China 1936. No where ís Spratly and Paracel Islands.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## grey boy 2



Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## cochine

*DUTERTE WARNED OF IMPEACHMENT OVER SCARBOROUGH SHOAL*
Posted on October 16, 2016





Share on FacebookTweet on Twitter


President Rodrigo Duterte can be impeached once he gives up sovereignty over Scarborough shoal that China has occupied in 2012, said Supreme Court Associate Justice Antonio Carpio.

“If Duterte concedes sovereignty, it is a culpable violation of the Constitution, a ground for impeachment. Once Duterte concedes sovereignty, we can never recover it because China will never give it back,” argued Carpio, adding, “China will not be bound by the ruling of the Philippine Supreme Court (that could void Duterte’s concessions to China).”

“Only an international court can void the concession (that Duterte might give to China). (And) China will never submit to the jurisdiction of an international court on sovereignty issues,” Carpio said.

While negotiating in his state visit to China in late October, Mr. Duterte might “recognise China’s sovereignty over the Scarborough shoal” in exchange for “(China) allowing Filipino fishermen to fish on Scarborough Shoal and for all the infrastructure loans and grants (that he could get) from the Chinese (counterparts during his state visit from December 19 to 21),” said Carpio.

In July, the Hague-based Permanent Court of Arbitration (PCA) ruled that China’s claim of the entire South China Sea were illegal, stating that Scarborough Shoal is a common fishing ground for all claimants in the South China Sea.

China, Taiwan, and Vietnam claim the entire South China Sea, while Brunei, Malaysia, and the Philippines claim their respective 200 nautical mile exclusive economic zone in the sea lane where $5.3 trillion worth of trade passes annually.

http://tankler.com/duterte-warned-of-impeachment-over-scarborough-shoal-8928


----------



## TaiShang

*Foreign interference in South China Sea won’t bring prosperity to region: Duterte*
(People's Daily Online) 11:27, October 19, 2016

Philippines President Rodrigo Duterte has* reiterated* his opposition to* foreign interference* in the South China Sea, warning that *such unwelcome overtures would pose a great threat to regional stability.*

Even though countries like the U.S. say all nations are by the Philippines’ side, I say we are close to a third world war, said Duterte during an interview with CCTV on Oct. 13. Duterte believes that stubborn insistence on territorial claims does not help with economic development.

Though the South China Sea issue has dampened the two countries’ relations, Duterte said he still has faith that China and the Philippines can “totally erase these dark spots,” adding that he wants to establish a more cohesive and stronger bond with China.

"In one word, I would say it is a defining moment of my presidency to open the frontiers of friendship and cooperation, and enhance [the] relationship between our two countries," Duterte said.

Discussing the balance of the Philippines' diplomatic ties with the U.S. and China,* the president noted that his country “should not be too constrained [by] the dictates of any other country.”* *He also stressed that China and the Philippines are neighbors, while the U.S. is thousands of miles away.*

“I am not breaking away from the U.S. - I just want to be friendly with everybody. So you do not restrain me from doing [the same thing to] China. Why should we be afraid? *Why should we stick to a certain country?”* Duterte said,

As for his expectations for his state visit to China, the president said he hopes that better Sino-Philippines relations can benefit his country's sluggish domestic economy, adding that China is the only hope for the Philippines’ economy.

China is the first non-ASEAN country that Duterte has visited as a president. The visit, which kicked off on Oct. 18, will continue until Oct. 21.

@terranMarine , @Dungeness

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## cochine

*Philippine leader says will raise arbitration case with China, won't bargain*
By Reuters/Martin Petty October 17, 2016 | 09:18 am GMT+7

*Rodrigo Duterte will not "barter" away territory and economic rights.*
Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte said on Sunday he would raise a controversial arbitral ruling on the South China Sea with China's leaders, and vowed not to surrender any sovereignty or deviate from the July award by the tribunal in The Hague.

Duterte said his trip to China this week represented a turning point in bilateral ties, but he acknowledged there was some public concern about his rapid rapprochement moves and reassured Filipinos that would not impact on the country's maritime sovereignty.

In comments that will not sit comfortably with the Chinese leadership, Duterte said the decision by the Permanent Court of Arbitration would be talked about and the parameters of the award would be discussed, but there would be no "hard imposition" of it.

The ruling dealt a blow to China's extensive claims in the South China Sea. Beijing has refused to recognize the case and has chided any country telling it to abide by the ruling.

"I will not bargain anywhere, we will continue to insist that is ours," he told a news conference in his home city of Davao.

"The international tribunal decision will be taken up."

The unpredictable president's moves to strongly engage China, just a few months after an arbitral award that sparked fears in the region of a backlash by Beijing in the South China Sea, mark a striking reversal in Philippine foreign policy since he took office on June 30.

Duterte goes to China on Tuesday with at least 200 members of the Philippine business elite to pave the way for what he calls a new commercial alliance. Among the areas expected to be prioritized are financing for Philippine businesses, farm exports, major infrastructure investments and tourism.

It comes amid a torrent of anti-American comments by Duterte that have cast a cloud over a longstanding relationship with the United States.

While he continues to chastise and hurl abuse at Washington for expressing concern about his bloody war on drugs, he insists his strategic gambit is about abiding by a constitution that enshrines an independent foreign policy.

He spoke of his intention to "intensify" trade ties and work closer with China, but would not avoid discussing what is a bone of contention between them.

"There will be no hard impositions. We will talk, we will maybe paraphrase everything in the judgment and set the limits of our territories, the special economic zones," he said of meeting.

"It will be no bargaining. It is ours and many of you are wanting to ask the question. No bargaining."

Duterte's comments might rattle China, which has spoken glowingly about the new partnership, but may not want to hear about an international ruling that it lost comprehensively, and included the invalidation of the U-shaped "nine-dashed line" featured on Chinese maps and passports.


----------



## cochine

*No, I am not breaking away from US – Duterte*

October 19, 2016 PNA Nation 0

ShareTweet



President Rodrigo Duterte has clarified that he is not breaking away from the Philippines’ old ally United States. ”The basic question of the Filipinos – I know what’s in their mind, why is Duterte breaking away from the United States? No, I am not breaking away,” Duterte said in an exclusive interview with China Central Television (CCTV) before he left for a four-day state visit in China.

President Duterte said he just want to be friendly with other countries including Asian neighbor China. ”I just want to be friendly with anybody. You do not constrain, do not restrain me from doing business with China,” he said.

The Filipino leader said he was sincere in seeking stronger alliance with China as well as with Russia, which he might also visit within this year. ”I believe in sincerity and I believe in the basic fundamentals of human sincerity,” Duterte, who said his grandfather is a Chinese, said.

President Duterte said the Philippines should not be too constrained to follow the dictates of other countries.

Late last month, President Duterte said the joint US-Philippines military exercise that was held last October 7 was the last under his term.

The Philippines and the US signed Mutual Defense Treaty in 1951 and a Visiting Forces Agreement in 1998 that paved the way for the holding of annual joint military exercises or ‘Baliktan’ exercises.

President Duterte told the Beijing-based CCTV that the military exercises were ‘useless’ since the US brought their military equipment back to their country after the Baliktan exercises.

”During the military exercises, they allow us to use their equipment, their arms, their weaponry, their armaments but after the games, they get them back from us,” the President said.

”So if there is really an emergency or a sudden – with a flight of a finger – you want to assemble men, their computers, our armaments are simply not compatible. So what’s the use of going into these useless exercise when after all…” he added.

President Duterte said his pragmatic approach in establishing his own foreign policy is “the only way to move forward nowadays.”

Last Sunday, President Duterte left for Brunei for a three-day state visit and then proceeded to Beijing last Tuesday for his four-day state visit.

http://www.update.ph/2016/10/no-i-am-not-breaking-away-from-us-duterte/10428


----------



## 艹艹艹

kecho said:


> stop lie here my dude. Spratly and Paracel was controlled and part of Vietnam sovereignty from long time in the past .
> 
> claim and occupation of china is illegal.
> 
> Full map òf China KMT printed in China 1936. No where ís Spratly and Paracel Islands.


*Vietnamese so funny！！
Map of the South China Sea in 1937





The South China Sea Islands of the Republic of China in 1946




The British "Thames Chinese atlas" page 115th South China Sea Islands map. The company published in September 1974




In 1964, Taiwan published the "Republic of China" Atlas, Hainan Special Administrative Region



*

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## GS Zhou

One article from the the Oct. 20th PLA News (解放军报) confirms that PLA Navy has deployed a fighter regiment on one island on the South China Sea.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cochine

long_ said:


> *Vietnamese so funny！！
> Map of the South China Sea in 1937
> 
> View attachment 344894
> 
> The South China Sea Islands of the Republic of China in 1946
> View attachment 344895
> 
> The British "Thames Chinese atlas" page 115th South China Sea Islands map. The company published in September 1974
> View attachment 344896
> 
> In 1964, Taiwan published the "Republic of China" Atlas, Hainan Special Administrative Region
> View attachment 344898
> *



Chinese has newly fabricated your map by ROC recently. So why PCA ruling on SCS dispute has said that *history * sea territory and *nine dashed line *claim by China is illegal.

Vietnam map dated back to 1600s stated that Islands in Vietnam's East sea is sea territory of Vietnam.


----------



## 艹艹艹

kecho said:


> Chinese has newly fabricated your map by ROC recently. So why PCA ruling on SCS dispute has said that *history * sea territory and *nine dashed line *claim by China is illegal.
> 
> Vietnam map dated back to 1600s stated that Islands in Vietnam's East sea is sea territory of Vietnam.


*Vietnamese so funny！！*
*You should read more books.*

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cochine

long_ said:


> *Vietnamese so funny！！
> You should read more books.*



Old books printed in China in the past, its said that there is Cochin (交趾) Sea (Vietnamese Sea)


----------



## GS Zhou

long_ said:


> *Vietnamese so funny！！
> You should read more books.*


You requested too much on him. This guy even could NOT read the Vietnam ancient books. Because these books are unfortunately all in Chinese.

For example, the map he just pasted, the map is said to come from a booked called as: 天南四致路图书全集. 





However, in another website organized by Vietnam government, nghiencuubiendong.vn, the same book is called as: 天南四志路图书募集. So the question is, this book can only have one name, but whether it is "天南四致路图书全集", or "天南四志路图书募集"? 

No one knows.

What's more ridiculous is, for such an important book to support Vietnam's claim on the South China Sea, we actually don't know where is the original version of this book!! Again from the VN webpage mentioned, the website said "we now can only read the *replicated versions *of this book"! 

Replicated!!! You know, every one can add his own flavor to the book during every round of replicate.

@kecho the content below comes from the link given. For the highlighted part, let me make a quick translation to you: for the book《天南四志路图书募集》and《天南四志路图书》, what we can read today, no matter in Vietnam, or in foreign countries, are all replicated versions created by the later generations.





http://nghiencuubiendong.vn/cn/basi...ocation-and-geography/721-2012-02-11-19-43-24

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## 艹艹艹

GS Zhou said:


> You requested too much on him. This guy even could NOT read the Vietnam ancient books. Because these books are unfortunately all in Chinese.
> 
> For example, the map he just pasted, the map is said to come from a booked called as: 天南四致路图书全集.
> View attachment 344916
> 
> 
> However, in another website organized by Vietnam government, nghiencuubiendong.vn, the same book is called as: 天南四志路图书募集. So the question is, this book can only have one name, but whether it is "天南四致路图书全集", or "天南四志路图书募集"?
> 
> No one knows.
> 
> What's more ridiculous is, for such an important book to support Vietnam's claim on the South China Sea, we actually don't know where is the original version of this book!! Again from the VN webpage mentioned, the website said "we now can only read the *replicated versions *of this book"!
> 
> Replicated!!! You know, every one can add his own flavor to the book during every round of replicate.
> 
> @kecho the content below comes from the link given. For the highlighted part, let me make a quick translation to you: for the book《天南四志路图书募集》and《天南四志路图书》, what we can read today, no matter in Vietnam, or in foreign countries, are all replicated versions created by the later generations.
> 
> View attachment 344917
> 
> http://nghiencuubiendong.vn/cn/basi...ocation-and-geography/721-2012-02-11-19-43-24


*It is said that Vietnam's ancient books are used in Chinese characters.*

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## terranMarine

kecho full time job is spreading lies all these years, he thinks posting these stuff will gain international recognition and support.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## cochine

GS Zhou said:


> You requested too much on him. This guy even could NOT read the Vietnam ancient books. Because these books are unfortunately all in Chinese.
> 
> For example, the map he just pasted, the map is said to come from a booked called as: 天南四致路图书全集.
> View attachment 344916
> 
> 
> However, in another website organized by Vietnam government, nghiencuubiendong.vn, the same book is called as: 天南四志路图书募集. So the question is, this book can only have one name, but whether it is "天南四致路图书全集", or "天南四志路图书募集"?
> 
> No one knows.
> 
> What's more ridiculous is, for such an important book to support Vietnam's claim on the South China Sea, we actually don't know where is the original version of this book!! Again from the VN webpage mentioned, the website said "we now can only read the *replicated versions *of this book"!
> 
> Replicated!!! You know, every one can add his own flavor to the book during every round of replicate.
> 
> @kecho the content below comes from the link given. For the highlighted part, let me make a quick translation to you: for the book《天南四志路图书募集》and《天南四志路图书》, what we can read today, no matter in Vietnam, or in foreign countries, are all replicated versions created by the later generations.
> 
> View attachment 344917
> 
> 
> http://nghiencuubiendong.vn/cn/basi...ocation-and-geography/721-2012-02-11-19-43-24



Any case, the ancient book has stated clearly that the Islands does belong to Vietnam territory, part of Quang Ngai Province Vietnam.



terranMarine said:


> kecho full time job is spreading lies all these years, he thinks posting these stuff will gain international recognition and support.



westerner scholars had recognized that Paracel and Spratly is part of territory Vietnam from long time ago.


----------



## GS Zhou

kecho said:


> Any case, the ancient book has stated clearly that the Islands does belong to Vietnam territory, part of Quang Ngai Province Vietnam.


haha, a book with NO consistent name, and no one knows what the author said exactly in the original version! you even cite this as the core historic evidence for vn claim on the south China sea islands! what a strong and convincing proof! haha, enjoy your book. 

btw, if you can pay me 100k dollar, I can create 10 similar books for you in one week.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cochine

GS Zhou said:


> haha, a book with NO consistent name, and no one knows what the author said exactly in the original version! you even cite this as the core historic evidence for vn claim on the south China sea islands! what a strong and convincing proof! haha, enjoy your book.
> 
> btw, if you can pay me 100k dollar, I can create 10 similar books for you in one week.



ancient Vietnam book is written on special paper and material. You can not do like this.

one more old map of Vietnam wiht Paracel and Spratly in near by..


----------



## GS Zhou

kecho said:


> Any case, the ancient book has stated clearly that the Islands does belong to Vietnam territory, part of Quang Ngai Province Vietnam.
> 
> 
> 
> westerner scholars had recognized that Paracel and Spratly is part of territory Vietnam from long time ago.


according to this fancy map:
1. north vietnam and south vietnam are two separate countries, because they painted in different colours.
2. a largr part of Guangxi province belongs to north Vietnam. look at the border between China and North Vietnam, the border line even close to the Leizhou Peninsula. you can use this map to claim your right on guangxi as well.



kecho said:


> ancient Vietnam book is written on special paper and material. You can not do like this.
> 
> one more old map of Vietnam wiht Paracel and Spratly in near by..


I dont care the socalled special paper or material. show me the original version, not the replicated version created by later generation.

another trash map. with basic PS skill, even a young kid can create such credible and reliable map.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## eldamar

kecho said:


> stop lie here my dude. Spratly and Paracel was controlled and part of Vietnam sovereignty from long time in the past .
> 
> claim and occupation of china is illegal.
> 
> Full map òf China KMT printed in China 1936. No where ís Spratly and Paracel Islands.



atually i stopped bothering replying to Kecho's post when the map shows Taiwan in white colour conisdering that the map states Zhonghuaminguo Quan Tu- and an authentic unedited KMT map would had showed taiwan as part of China

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cochine

GS Zhou said:


> according to this fancy map:
> 1. north vietnam and south vietnam are two separate countries, because they painted in different colours.
> 2. a largr part of Guangxi province belongs to north Vietnam. look at the border between China and North Vietnam, the border line even close to the Leizhou Peninsula. you can use this map to claim your right on guangxi as well.
> 
> 
> I dont care the socalled special paper or material. show me the original version, not the replicated version created by later generation.
> 
> another trash map. with basic PS skill, even a young kid can create such credible and reliable map.



Vietnam is one country under Le Dynasty Vietnam, but two area was controlled by two warlord, there is our history.



eldarlmari said:


> atually i stopped bothering replying to Kecho's post when the map shows Taiwan in white colour conisdering that the map states Zhonghuaminguo Quan Tu- and an authentic unedited KMT map would had showed taiwan as part of China



Taiwan was part of Japan Imperial in 1936. Japan annexed Taiwan to her after first Sino-Japan war 1895.

when we would like to claim back Guanxi to us, we no need this map becaues Gunagxi is ancient land of us, later on there was part of Nan Yue in the past. Nan Yue land is ancient land of Vietnam. The land of Jiao Zhou when China illegally had occoupated in the past.


----------



## GS Zhou

kecho said:


> *when we would like to claim back Guanxi to us, we no need this map becaues Gunagxi is ancient land of us, later on there was part of Nan Yue in the past.* Nan Yue land is ancient land of Vietnam. The land of Jiao Zhou when China illegally had occoupated in the past.




This guy is keeping posting suspicious maps about the South China Sea, although the maps are proved unreliable. But now this guy even throws out more trash map to claim even Guangxi Province of China belongs to Vietnam. I have to say he trolls toooooo far.
Will be great if the admin. team can take some actions to stop this guy's violation on PDF rule. Many thanks!

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## 艹艹艹

kecho said:


> Vietnam is one country under Le Dynasty Vietnam, but two area was controlled by two warlord, there is our history.
> 
> 
> 
> Taiwan was part of Japan Imperial in 1936. Japan annexed Taiwan to her after first Sino-Japan war 1895.
> 
> when we would like to claim back Guanxi to us, we no need this map becaues Gunagxi is ancient land of us, later on there was part of Nan Yue in the past. Nan Yue land is ancient land of Vietnam. The land of Jiao Zhou when China illegally had occoupated in the past.


*Tang Dynasty*




*Han Dynasty*

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ahojunk

GS Zhou said:


> This guy is keeping posting suspicious maps about the South China Sea, although the maps are proved unreliable. But now this guy even throws out more trash map to claim even Guangxi Province of China belongs to Vietnam. I have to say he trolls toooooo far.
> Will be great if the admin. team can take some actions to stop this guy's violation on PDF rule. Many thanks!


Okay, going forward no more posting of maps more than 100 years old.
I will issue warnings and bans.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## GS Zhou

ahojunk said:


> Okay, going forward no more posting of maps more than 100 years old.
> I will issue warnings and bans.


thank you sir!

@kecho be cautious to your PDF membership.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## 艹艹艹

kecho said:


> westerner scholars had recognized that Paracel and Spratly is part of territory Vietnam from long time ago



French? Vietnam used to be a colony of France.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cochine

long_ said:


> French? Vietnam used to be a colony of France.



how about China in the past ?

(my last answer for you is deleted by mod).


----------



## 艹艹艹

kecho said:


> how about China in the past ?


Vietnam used to be a China's vassal state.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cochine

*DUTERTE WELCOMES POSSIBLE JOINT EXERCISES WITH JAPAN*
Posted on October 27, 2016




Photo by Tomohiro Ohsumi.
Share on FacebookTweet on Twitter


Philippines is open to have joint exercises with Japan, President Rodrigo Duterte said in a chance interview after he visited the Japan Coast Guard on Thursday afternoon.

“Joint exercise with Japan in general terms is not a problem. Stationing of Japanese troops was not discussed and with the Americans, it’s problematic,” Duterte told reporters one day after saying he wanted foreign troops out of his country “maybe in the next two years”.

*Duterte also said the patrol vessels from Japan would be used within the territorial waters of the Philippines, including the West Philippine Sea.*

In July, the Coast Guards of both countries conducted their sixth Joint Maritime Law Enforcement (MARLEN) Exercise.

However, Duterte said there was no mention of visiting forces agreement during his meeting with Prime Minister Shinzo Abe.

“Specifically, walang mention ang Japanese diyan eh,” he explained.

http://tankler.com/duterte-welcomes-possible-joint-exercises-with-japan-9234


----------



## GS Zhou

kecho said:


> There was diplomacy gift between two kingdom's Emperor paid for Turkis (Tang), Mongolian (Yuan) and Tungus (Qing) who invaded and ruled you in China.


how is the feeling in jail? hope you can survive longer this round.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cochine

GS Zhou said:


> how is the feeling in jail? hope you can survive longer this round.



I will stop to say it here, when your guys could shut up about "colony" or "vassal state" to insult us on this forum.

Look at how chinese people had suffered and survived in your history. The elite chinese had said that, there is humiliation century of China.


----------



## terranMarine

kecho said:


> I will stop to say it here, when your guys could shut up about "colony" or "vassal state" to insult us on this forum.
> 
> Look at how chinese people had suffered and survived in your history. The elite chinese had said that, there is humiliation century of China.


Is a century humiliation worse than a millennium humiliation? Being a vassal state of China for 1006 years , then ruled by the French for couple of decades and briefly became Japanese vassal state. As if that wasn't worse enough you guys suffered at the hands of the Yankees for nearly 20 years. The aftermath proved to be even disastrous when your people had to deal with the consequences of chemical warfare and international sanctions placed by the US. So i suggest you to learn to shut up about century of humiliation because it looks much worse on your side than it is on our side.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cirr



Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## 艹艹艹

cirr said:


>


海警+炮

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## terranMarine

kecho said:


> There was many humiliation centuries in china, many dynaties in China were in hand of invaders, when you Han chinese is the biggest , huge population in this planet.
> 
> China is still devided country now, USA has controlled you indirectly in Taiwan for ....forever.
> 
> Vietnam is small country with small population, but we 'vd kicked from our soil all big enemy, super power like China, France and USA.


 you never learn, what a hopeless stupid Viet. Keep it up with the insults and you will receive them back in return.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cochine

*‘We don’t need the permission of China for our fishermen’*

October 28, 2016 PNA Nation 0
http://www.update.ph/2016/10/we-dont-need-the-permission-of-china-for-our-fishermen/10574
ShareTweet



By now, fishermen should be allowed to fish in the West Philippine Sea (South China Sea) without asking permission from China. This was the statement made by Senator Leila de Lima Thursday, urging the government to enforce and assert the arbitral ruling on the West Philippine Sea territorial row to allow fishermen to “exercise their rights.”

“We don’t need the permission or authority of China for our fishermen to go there and exercise their rights which have been explicitly recognized by an international arbiter court,” de Lima said in a press conference.

She urged President Rodrigo Duterte to be careful with his pronouncements and moves insofar as the WPS is concerned.

“Pronouncements by state officials, particular head of state himself can be binding. He (the President) might not realize that he has made statements that China will just be too happy to invoke against us in that case,” she said.

“Of course the case is over, the decision has been made although it is not being respected by China, but we should be in the period of enforcement and assertion of the ruling. But are we doing it? We’re not,” she added.

She stressed that the triumph gained from what has been described as a “monumental” case should not be wasted as the world has recognized the Philippines for pursing it.

The senator further said that this victory should not be put at risk “just to appease China.”

She admitted that while it was difficult for the Philippines to win over China “militarily”, it was no reason to allow this type of oppression.

“Both the Philippines and China are state parties to the UNCLOS (UN Convention on the Law of Sea). We invoke that because that’s the rule of law. We adhere to peaceful methods of settling disputes and that is the most peaceful method of setting dispute, going to tribunal,” de Lima said.

Presidential spokesperson Ernesto Abella earlier assured that President Duterte would not make agreements with China that would be detrimental to the country’s interest in the WPS.

Abella made the assurance after Associate Justice Antonio Carpio warned that the President could face impeachment if he concedes the sovereignty of Scarborough shoal.


----------



## GS Zhou

cirr said:


>


Coast Guard ship constructed upon the 054A frigate platform! China is among the very few countries that can afford such luxe!

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## lonelyman

terranMarine said:


> Is a century humiliation worse than a millennium humiliation? Being a vassal state of China for 1006 years , then ruled by the French for couple of decades and briefly became Japanese vassal state. As if that wasn't worse enough you guys suffered at the hands of the Yankees for nearly 20 years. The aftermath proved to be even disastrous when your people had to deal with the consequences of chemical warfare and international sanctions placed by the US. So i suggest you to learn to shut up about century of humiliation because it looks much worse on your side than it is on our side.


1006 years are actually direct rule, the rest of 1000 years are vassals state



kecho said:


> *‘We don’t need the permission of China for our fishermen’*
> 
> October 28, 2016 PNA Nation 0
> http://www.update.ph/2016/10/we-dont-need-the-permission-of-china-for-our-fishermen/10574
> ShareTweet
> 
> 
> 
> By now, fishermen should be allowed to fish in the West Philippine Sea (South China Sea) without asking permission from China. This was the statement made by Senator Leila de Lima Thursday, urging the government to enforce and assert the arbitral ruling on the West Philippine Sea territorial row to allow fishermen to “exercise their rights.”
> 
> “We don’t need the permission or authority of China for our fishermen to go there and exercise their rights which have been explicitly recognized by an international arbiter court,” de Lima said in a press conference.
> 
> She urged President Rodrigo Duterte to be careful with his pronouncements and moves insofar as the WPS is concerned.
> 
> “Pronouncements by state officials, particular head of state himself can be binding. He (the President) might not realize that he has made statements that China will just be too happy to invoke against us in that case,” she said.
> 
> “Of course the case is over, the decision has been made although it is not being respected by China, but we should be in the period of enforcement and assertion of the ruling. But are we doing it? We’re not,” she added.
> 
> She stressed that the triumph gained from what has been described as a “monumental” case should not be wasted as the world has recognized the Philippines for pursing it.
> 
> The senator further said that this victory should not be put at risk “just to appease China.”
> 
> She admitted that while it was difficult for the Philippines to win over China “militarily”, it was no reason to allow this type of oppression.
> 
> “Both the Philippines and China are state parties to the UNCLOS (UN Convention on the Law of Sea). We invoke that because that’s the rule of law. We adhere to peaceful methods of settling disputes and that is the most peaceful method of setting dispute, going to tribunal,” de Lima said.
> 
> Presidential spokesperson Ernesto Abella earlier assured that President Duterte would not make agreements with China that would be detrimental to the country’s interest in the WPS.
> 
> Abella made the assurance after Associate Justice Antonio Carpio warned that the President could face impeachment if he concedes the sovereignty of Scarborough shoal.


Empty talks, yes you do. Without your president rapprochement, ur fisherman is still sitting at home



kecho said:


> There was many humiliation centuries in china, many dynaties in China were in hand of invaders, when you Han chinese is the biggest , huge population in this planet.
> 
> China is still devided country now, USA has controlled you indirectly in Taiwan for ....forever.
> 
> Vietnam is small country with small population, but we 'vd kicked from our soil all big enemy, super power like China, France and USA.


Without our generous help, u guys are still kissing American *** today

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cochine

lonelyman said:


> 1006 years are actually direct rule, the rest of 1000 years are vassals state



Big China with territory and population, but you are ruled by many Northerners until 1912, recently. Sun Zhongshan liberated you but Japanese had continued controlled you until 1945



lonelyman said:


> Without our generous help, u guys are still kissing American *** today



Soviet Union and other Socialist countries helped Vietnam, but China CPC had made dirty tricks counter Vietnam in our back.

USA-China friendship in Vietnam war. This true China CPC.


----------



## 艹艹艹

kecho said:


> Big China with territory and population, but you are ruled by many Northerners until 1912, recently. Sun Zhongshan liberated you but Japanese had continued controlled you until 1945
> 
> 
> 
> Soviet Union and other Socialist countries helped Vietnam, but China CPC had made dirty tricks counter Vietnam in our back.
> 
> USA-China friendship in Vietnam war. This true China CPC.


In the cold war, this was the fate of a small country.But you invaded Kampuchea

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cochine

long_ said:


> In the cold war, this was the fate of a small country.But you invaded Kampuchea



without dirty hands of China, Khmer Rouge couldn't attacked us over our border and killed Vietnamese in side of our border. We do know that Khmer Rouge is puppet of China. China is friend of USA in cold war.


----------



## eldamar

Small Namviet is just a vassal state

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cochine

eldarlmari said:


> Small Namviet is just a vassal state



南越 , or 南粤, is there your home land ?


----------



## sweetgrape

kecho said:


> 南越 , or 南粤, is there your home land ?


I don't think so, Namviet is idiot's land.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cochine

sweetgrape said:


> I don't think so, Namviet is idiot's land.





sweetgrape said:


> I don't think so, Namviet is idiot's land.



I think that NanYue or 南粤, is homeland of Sun Zhongshan,孫中山 / 孫逸仙, who had liberated China from Tungus rulers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Yat-sen

*BRP Andres Bonifacio to beef up capability in conducting territorial patrols*

October 31, 2016 PNA Nation 0

ShareTweet



BRP Andres Bonifacio (FF-17), the Philippine Navy (PN)’s third Hamilton-class cutter, will greatly boost the country’s capability to conduct “territorial patrols” within the nation’s exclusive economic zone (EEZ). “FF-17 is a significant addition to the Navy’s inventory of ships in order to boost the conduct of territorial patrol missions within our EEZ,” PN spokesperson Capt. Lued Lincuna in a message to the PNA Monday, said.

BRP Andres Bonifacio is the sister ship BRP Gregorio Del Pilar (FF-15) and BRP Ramon Alcaraz (FF-16), both former Hamilton-class cutters acquired through the US Excess Defense Article Program in 2011 and 2013, respectively.

“The ship can also be used for humanitarian assistance and disaster relief missions, search-and-rescue at sea, and limited transport of relief goods and personnel to affected areas,” Lincuna disclosed.

Barring inclement weather, BRP Andres Bonifacio is scheduled to leave the US Coast Guard base in Alameda, California this coming Nov. 1 (American time).

“She will be at sea for 26 days, passing San Diego, California, Hawaii, and Guam for refuelling and reprovisioning,” he added.

The BRP Andres Bonifacio is formerly the USCGC Boutwell which was retired from US Coast Guard service last March 16 and handed to the PN last July 21 (American time).

Hamilton-class cutters have a gross tonnage of 3,250 tons, a length of 378 feet, beam of 43 feet, and draft of 15 feet.

Its propulsion systems consist of two diesel engines and two gas turbine engines, giving it a top speed of 29 knots and a crew of 80 officers and enlisted personnel.

The ship has cruising range of 14,000 miles and has a sea and loiter time of 45 days.

http://www.update.ph/2016/10/brp-an...ility-in-conducting-territorial-patrols/10628


----------



## lonelyman

kecho said:


> Big China with territory and population, but you are ruled by many Northerners until 1912, recently. Sun Zhongshan liberated you but Japanese had continued controlled you until 1945
> 
> 
> 
> Soviet Union and other Socialist countries helped Vietnam, but China CPC had made dirty tricks counter Vietnam in our back.
> 
> USA-China friendship in Vietnam war. This true China CPC.


Because u guys are losers, why stick with losers, we end up on the winning side of Cold War. As we always did in First World War, Second World War

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## sweetgrape

kecho said:


> I think that NanYue or 南粤, is homeland of Sun Zhongshan,孫中山 / 孫逸仙, who had liberated China from Tungus rulers.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Yat-sen


Thanks for you proving my comment, Namviet is a idiot's land,

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cochine

lonelyman said:


> Because u guys are losers, why stick with losers, we end up on the winning side of Cold War. As we always did in First World War, Second World War


 In WW II, Soviet union's red army won on Japan's Guandong army and liberated Manchu Guo for you. China sided to USA in cold war. You are ungrateful chinese guy.



sweetgrape said:


> Thanks for you proving my comment, Namviet is a idiot's land,



Why ? 南越 , or 南粤 is the homeland of Hakka people, they claimed themselves as Chinese now even though they are living in Taiwan or in Singapore.


----------



## lonelyman

kecho said:


> In WW II, Soviet union's red army won on Japan's Guandong army and liberated Manchu Guo for you. China sided to USA in cold war. You are ungrateful chinese guy.


Yeah like u guys are grateful to our huge assistance to fight against the French and Americans, without us you are still a colony.

By the way, this shows u are ultimate immature. In international relationships unlike personal level, there is only interests. Like I said, u losers have a habit always picking the losers side, this time by jumping to USA is no different

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## lonelyman

GS Zhou said:


> @ahojunk hi sir, we have the rule that *map older than 100 years could not be posted here*.
> 
> But this map that just posted by @kecho, it comes from the era of China's Han Dynasty, i.e. *the map is older than 2,000 years.* Will be great if some actions could be taken to deal with such serious violation of PDF rule. Many thanks!


These viet members like kecho, viet constantly trash talking China and derail normal discussion threads, they should be banned

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cochine

lonelyman said:


> Yeah like u guys are grateful to our huge assistance to fight against the French and Americans, without us you are still a colony.
> 
> By the way, this shows u are ultimate immature. In international relationships unlike personal level, there is only interests. Like I said, u losers have a habit always picking the losers side, this time by jumping to USA is no different



I said to you before that Soviet Union and Socialist countries had helped Vietnam in Vietnam war against Imperialist France and USA much more than China, in critic time when USA used B52 to destroyed Vietnam 1972, China had begged Nixon to visit Peking 1972 and robbed Paracel Islands of Vietnam in 1974, invaded to Vietnam 1979.

For your interest, pls stop talking about China's help in Vietnam war. China did is more halm for Vietnam in Sino-Vietnam war than what China had helped us. 



GS Zhou said:


> @ahojunk hi sir, we have the rule that *map older than 100 years could not be posted here*.
> 
> But this map that just posted by @kecho, it comes from the era of China's Han Dynasty, i.e. *the map is older than 2,000 years.* Will be great if some actions could be taken to deal with such serious violation of PDF rule. Many thanks!



He he, I just showed that where is Namviet or 南越 , or 南粤 is located where in China.

When China say about history right over SCS, we can demonstrate here the historic map from thousand year, not only from hundred year.


----------



## GS Zhou

kecho said:


> He he, I just showed that where is Namviet or 南越 , or 南粤 is located where in China.
> 
> When China say about history right over SCS, we can demonstrate here the historic map from thousand year, not only from hundred year.


I don't care much about your claim. I just know we should all obey the PDF fule.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cochine

GS Zhou said:


> I don't care much about your claim. I just know we should all obey the PDF fule.



The rule said by Chinese mod is unfair and unrealistic. Old maps could confirmed that there is sea territory of China's neighbors.

*CHINESE COAST GUARD SEEN BLOCKING PINOY FISHERS AT SCARBOROUGH SHOAL*
Posted on November 2, 2016






Share on FacebookTweet on Twitter


Filipino fishermen are still not fishing inside Scarborough Shoal as new imagery reports from October 29 showed a China Coast Guard (CCG) vessel anchored just inside the mouth of the lagoon, where it has been for most of the period since China seized the shoal in 2012, apparently blocking access, reported by Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative.

There were at least 17 Philippine fishing vessels were present along the exterior of Scarborough’s reef. This corroborates reports that Filipino fishermen fished “just outside Scarborough’s lagoon” over the last week.

Two Chinese civilian ships were seen in the vicinity and according to the Philippine Navy, three other CCG vessels continue to patrol near Scarborough.

Earlier, GMA News Online reported that some fishermen arrived with their huge catch, after days of fishing inside the shoal beginning Wednesday night.





Markers may indicate more than one Philippine vessel operating close to each other.


----------



## sweetgrape

kecho said:


> In WW II, Soviet union's red army won on Japan's Guandong army and liberated Manchu Guo for you. China sided to USA in cold war. You are ungrateful chinese guy.
> 
> 
> 
> Why ? 南越 , or 南粤 is the homeland of Hakka people, they claimed themselves as Chinese now even though they are living in Taiwan or in Singapore.
> 
> Map of Nanyue guo in the past.


In fact, you don't need prove it twice, Namviet idiot(SB).

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## 艹艹艹

*Senior Chinese leader to visit Vietnam*
Source:Xinhua Published: 2016/11/3 16:17:03

A senior leader of the Communist Party of China (CPC) will head a delegation to pay a friendly official visit to Vietnam next week.

Zhang Dejiang, a member of the Standing Committee of the Political Bureau of the CPC Central Committee, will visit Vietnam from Nov. 8 to 11, said a statement from the International Department of the CPC Central Committee.

Zhang is also chairman of the Standing Committee of the National People's Congress, the country's top legislature.

Zhang was invited by his Vietnam counterpart Nguyen Thi Kim Ngan, chairwoman of the National Assembly of Vietnam, who is also a member of the Political Bureau of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Vietnam.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cochine

*Chinese postage stamps violate Vietnam's sovereignty*

By VnExpress November 4, 2016 | 12:14 pm GMT+7
*Vietnamese collectors have alerted authorities of the violation and called for official disapproval.*
The Vietnam Stamp Club, a group of local collectors, has informed the government that China Post’s new stamps violate Vietnam’s sovereignty over an island chain in the East Sea, the Vietnamese reference for the South China Sea.

In a document sent to the information ministry on Wednesday, the group said the Chinese State Post Bureau issued a set of five stamps named “Chinese lighthouses,” depicting lighthouses constructed on five reefs of Vietnam’s Spratly Islands, which were illegally occupied by China in 1988 and 1995.

Hoang Anh Thi, head of the club, said that the new stamps have violated Vietnam’s sovereignty. China uses the pretext of stamp issuance to deceive the public over its illegal actions, Thi added.

This is the third time China Post has released stamps violating Vietnam's sovereignty over the Spratlys and Paracels, another island chain in the East Sea.

Earlier, in 2004 it issued a stamp set featuring frontier scenes of China, one of which showed the image of Paracel Islands, which China has taken by force since 1974.

In 2013, China Post distributed another stamp set with one stamp featuring the islands. This time, the Vietnam’s Post Department demanded that China Post abolish stamps, envelops and postcards that violated Vietnam’s sovereignty and avoid similar actc.

China Post, however, apparently repeated the violation with the new stamps issued late last month.

The Vietnam Stamp Club proposed that the information ministry speak out against China Post's action and issue a set of its own stamps showing images of the Spratly and Paracel Islands to reaffirm Vietnam’s sovereignty.


----------



## shjliu

kecho said:


> *Chinese postage stamps violate Vietnam's sovereignty*
> 
> By VnExpress November 4, 2016 | 12:14 pm GMT+7
> *Vietnamese collectors have alerted authorities of the violation and called for official disapproval.*
> The Vietnam Stamp Club, a group of local collectors, has informed the government that China Post’s new stamps violate Vietnam’s sovereignty over an island chain in the East Sea, the Vietnamese reference for the South China Sea.
> 
> In a document sent to the information ministry on Wednesday, the group said the Chinese State Post Bureau issued a set of five stamps named “Chinese lighthouses,” depicting lighthouses constructed on five reefs of Vietnam’s Spratly Islands, which were illegally occupied by China in 1988 and 1995.
> 
> Hoang Anh Thi, head of the club, said that the new stamps have violated Vietnam’s sovereignty. China uses the pretext of stamp issuance to deceive the public over its illegal actions, Thi added.
> 
> This is the third time China Post has released stamps violating Vietnam's sovereignty over the Spratlys and Paracels, another island chain in the East Sea.
> 
> Earlier, in 2004 it issued a stamp set featuring frontier scenes of China, one of which showed the image of Paracel Islands, which China has taken by force since 1974.
> 
> In 2013, China Post distributed another stamp set with one stamp featuring the islands. This time, the Vietnam’s Post Department demanded that China Post abolish stamps, envelops and postcards that violated Vietnam’s sovereignty and avoid similar actc.
> 
> China Post, however, apparently repeated the violation with the new stamps issued late last month.
> 
> The Vietnam Stamp Club proposed that the information ministry speak out against China Post's action and issue a set of its own stamps showing images of the Spratly and Paracel Islands to reaffirm Vietnam’s sovereignty.



have you see this document before? in 1958, vietnam government respect the right of China owns South China Sea

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cochine

shjliu said:


> have you see this document before? in 1958, vietnam government respect the right of China owns South China Sea



After 1954 with Geneva accords was signed by North Vietnam and China. The Spratly and Paracel is territory of South Vietnam. North Vietnam didn't have rights to say about sovereignty of South Vietnam.

This letter didn't mentioned about Paracel and Spratly, it said about 12 mile coast line of China where North Vietnam will respected from North Vietnam sea territory only.

Chinese can stop lyings about this diplomatic letter.


----------



## shjliu

kecho said:


> After 1954 with Geneva accords was signed by North Vietnam and China. The Spratly and Paracel is territory of South Vietnam. North Vietnam didn't have rights to say about sovereignty of South Vietnam.
> 
> This letter didn't mentioned about Paracel and Spratly, it said about 12 mile coast line of China where North Vietnam will respected from North Vietnam sea territory only.
> 
> Chinese can stop lyings about this diplomatic letter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 349435


yes, the north Vietnam have no saying for south vietnam, but if I remember correctly, it is now the north Vietnam win the war, so it does have saying for the loser south Vietnam ? am I wrong on that?

Well, I guess you guys heading for a war eventually. best of luck for both side

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cochine

shjliu said:


> yes, the north Vietnam have no saying for south vietnam, but if I remember correctly, it is now the north Vietnam win the war, so it does have saying for the loser south Vietnam ? am I wrong on that?
> 
> Well, I guess you guys heading for a war eventually. best of luck for both side



South Vietnam revolutionary liberation Government and *south Vietnamese people* won on RNV Government in Vietnam war. North VN goverment was the supporter only.






Problem is that Noth Vietnam signed in to Geneva Accord, rights of north VN is limited at 17th Parallel . There is two VN state at that time. So, the letter is stated clearly that "DRVN authorities respect 12 mile coast line of China related to North DRVN" only.

Can north Korean say that Dokdo Island does belong to Japan ?


in opposite case, there is Senkaku Island dispute, Lee Deng hui president of Taiwan ROC had said that Senkaku Island does belong to Japan, but this statement is useless for Japan, because Taiwan Parlement didn't approved that.


----------



## shjliu

kecho said:


> South Vietnam revolutionary liberation Government and *south Vietnamese people* won on RNV Government in Vietnam war. North VN goverment was the supporter only.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Problem is that Noth Vietnam signed in to Geneva Accord, rights of north VN is limited at 17th Parallel . There is two VN state at that time. So, the letter is stated clearly that "DRVN authorities respect 12 mile coast line of China related to North DRVN" only.
> 
> Can north Korean say that Dokdo Island does belong to Japan ?
> 
> 
> in opposite case, there is Senkaku Island dispute, Lee Deng hui president of Taiwan ROC had said that Senkaku Island does belong to Japan, but this statement is useless for Japan, because Taiwan Parlement didn't approved that.


well, I have to agree with you totally! so is there any way to solve this problem between VN and China? I mean beside going to war! without going to war and solving this problem, then it will show the wisdom of people in both countries, won't you agree? of course going into war is another option, in my opinion China will not lose !

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## GS Zhou

William Hung said:


> Really? There is a “PDF rule” that all maps older 100 years are banned in this section?? Thats the first time I’ve ever heard about this socalled “PDF rule”, sounds like you guys are trying to hide/censor something.


Such rule is actually made to protect your interests.

For example, your friend Kecho once showed an ancient map, and told us this map is a crucial evidence to support Vietnam's claim on the South China Sea. But what's ridiculous is,
1. this map comes from an ancient book. But no one know what is the exact name of this book. Different book names are mentioned by different sources in Vietnam

2. No one knows where is the original copy of this book. What's available currently is only the replicated copies that created by the later generations. Replicated Copies!!! You know, every one can add his own flavor to the book during every round of replicate.

Another interesting example, still coming from your friend Kecho. He once shared a 19th-century map, which, according to Kecho's theory, is again a crucial evidence to support Vietnam's right on the South China Sea. However, if we strictly follow what is drawn on the map, a very large part of China's Guangxi Province would be belong to Vietnam. The China vs. Vietnam border line, according to the map, is close to the Leizhou Peninsula. 

https://defence.pk/threads/south-china-sea-forum.196058/page-725

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## GS Zhou

*China builds its 1st marine nuclear power station*
2016-11-05 07:39:31 CRIENGLISH.com Web Editor: Xu Yaqi

The construction of China's first marine nuclear power station began on Friday, November 4, 2016. The floating nuclear plant, named ACPR50S and designed by China General Nuclear Power Corp (CGN), will provide electricity, heat and fresh water for marine resources exploration, as well as the everyday life and production of island residents. 

CGN has released its contract with Dongfang Electric, a company that will provide reactor pressure vessels for key parts of the power station's experiment reactor.

Reactor pressure vessels have the longest production cycle in the whole project; therefore, they will largely determine how long the plant can be completed. 

CGN is also going to use the VR technology to simulate the scenes of construction, which can help prevent and analyze accidents.
















-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nice progress! After completion, our fishermen and scientists at the South China Sea can have a stable electricity supply! More people and assets could be deployed there!!

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## eldamar

William Hung said:


> Really? There is a “PDF rule” that all maps older 100 years are banned in this section?? Thats the first time I’ve ever heard about this socalled “PDF rule”, sounds like you guys are trying to hide/censor something.



ya tell that to the mod who obviously had his reasons to implement this rule.

Are u challenging the mod's decision?

BTW, check out kecho's profile n see how many off topic posts he has in reagrd to this thread. han dynasty, tang dynasty, Japan, Taiwan, Russia, Soviet Union- he practically talks about everything that has nothing to do with the Suuth China sea, cos he know his Little Namviet(Xiaonanyue) is weak alone.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## GS Zhou

China Post recently issued a set of five stamps about the Chinese lighthouses in the South China Sea. 

Here is the five stamp





Here are the real pictures of the five lighthouses on five reefs in the South China Sea

Lighthouse on the Chubi Reef





Lighthouse on the Chigua Reef





Lighthouse on the Yongshu Reef





Lighthouse on the Huayang Reef





Lighthouse on the Meiji Reef

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## GS Zhou

some newest sat. pictures of our islands in the South China Sea

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## cirr

GS Zhou said:


> some newest sat. pictures of our islands in the South China Sea
> 
> View attachment 349970



Something fishy happening top and bottom?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cochine

*Trilateral agreement among PH, Indonesia, Malaysia to address porous security in the south*

November 7, 2016 PNA Nation 0

ShareTweet



The trilateral agreement among the Philippines, Indonesia and Malaysia is expected to address the porous security area in the neighboring countries’ waters once it takes effect.

Armed Forces of the Philippines (AFP) spokesperson Brig. Gen. Restituto Padilla said the presence of military forces in maritime areas of common concern of the three nations would secure ships passing the area, allowing trade to grow faster.

The three countries share common waters near the provinces of Sulu and Tawi-Tawi.

Padilla said the trilateral agreement’s implementing rules and regulations (IRR) are currently being formulated.

No exact date was given on the completion of the IRR.

Cooperation between the three nations is driven by the need to address the rising incidents of armed robbery at sea, kidnapping and piracy in the three countries’ areas of common concern.

Earlier this year, Abu Sayyaf Group (ASG) bandits conducted a series of attacks against Malaysian and Indonesian tugs and coal carriers, abducting dozens of crew members in the process.

The victims were eventually freed during the Philippine government offensive against the terrorist group.

Earlier, the three Southeast Asian nations have agreed to explore joint air patrols in transit corridors considered as maritime areas of common concern.

http://www.update.ph/2016/11/trilat...to-address-porous-security-in-the-south/10770


----------



## UMNOPutra

*Has China really been successful with Malaysia, Philippines?
*
KUALA LUMPUR: *Asean nations such as Malaysia, the Philippines and Thailand*, aware that China is better at playing geopolitics, *are now playing China*, according to a Financial Times article.

The tone of the article is that one should not read too much into the* “success” achieved by Beijing* and that it is *more perception than reality.*
The lengthy FT article delves into China’s success in courting the Philippines and Malaysia, the motivation of the leaderships in these nations, the impact on these nations relationship with the US and the South China Sea dispute.
It acknowledges that the back-to-back visits by Philippine and Malaysian leaders have marked a moment of rare foreign policy success for Beijing and that* Beijing has demonstrated that a concerted charm, and cash, offensive in Asia *can cause even staunch US allies to wobble in their pro-Washington orbits.
“There is going to be a more intensified game of influence in the region,” it quotes Paul Haenle, former China director for the US National Security Council who is now director of the Carnegie-Tsinghua Center in Beijing as saying.
The article quotes experts as saying that nothing concrete has been taken away from the US by either country, but that in diplomacy, where perception is often more important than reality, much damage has been done.
According to the FT article, *just as China is getting better at playing geopolitics, its neighbours are getting better at playing China*, and many *analysts are sceptical that Beijing actually got the better deal.*
Carl Thayer, a Southeast Asia specialist at Australia’s University of New South Wales, is quoted as saying: “It’s almost universal in every country: make profits and benefit from the relationship with China, but don’t make yourself choose between the US and China.”
The FT articles says while Asean nations are keen to tap Beijing’s money to build infrastructure, the *US is also still a more important source of foreign direct investment.*
China has sought to blunt the force of a ruling dismissing its claim to the Scarborough Shoal by an international tribunal in The Hague by “buying off” the Philippines, the article says.
Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte received USD13.5 billion in promised investment and trade deals when he visited China.
Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak returned from a five-day visit to China with about USD34 billion worth of deals.
The FT article says analysts note that both* Duterte and Najib have been at least partially motivated by personal grievances against the US*.
Duterte has railed against US criticism of his domestic anti-drug war, in which the government has condoned the use of police death squads, while Najib has been stung by the US after federal prosecutors investigated 1MDB. China, the FT article say, has bailed out the fund by buying its distressed assets.
In Thailand, the ruling generals have turned towards China and away from the US after Washington’s criticism of their 2014 coup, the article observes.
“Right now *the carrots are being fed and the sticks are in the back pocket because China wants to test how far it can pull these states into its orbit,*” the FT quotes Prashanth Parameswaran, an expert on South China Sea diplomacy, as saying.
“This could well be just *another period of Chinese charm that will be followed by another round of coercion.* That’s certainly been the pattern of Chinese behaviour before, and it is difficult to see why Beijing would change now,” says Parameswaran.

http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/ca...ly-been-successful-with-malaysia-philippines/


----------



## cochine

GS Zhou said:


> For example, your friend Kecho once showed an ancient map, and told us this map is a crucial evidence to support Vietnam's claim on the South China Sea. But what's ridiculous is,
> 1. this map comes from an ancient book. But no one know what is the exact name of this book. Different book names are mentioned by different sources in Vietnam
> 
> 2. No one knows where is the original copy of this book. What's available currently is only the replicated copies that created by the later generations. Replicated Copies!!! You know, every one can add his own flavor to the book during every round of replicate.
> 
> Another interesting example, still coming from your friend Kecho. He once shared a 19th-century map, which, according to Kecho's theory, is again a crucial evidence to support Vietnam's right on the South China Sea. However, if we strictly follow what is drawn on the map, a very large part of China's Guangxi Province would be belong to Vietnam. The China vs. Vietnam border line, according to the map, is close to the Leizhou Peninsula.
> 
> https://defence.pk/threads/south-china-sea-forum.196058/page-725



don't say meaningless . 

The old book is written by Chinese and printed in China It is evidence for that long time ago Chinese had recognized that there is Cochin (Vietnam) Sea. Nine dashed line is fabricated by KMT in 1948.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## GS Zhou

kecho said:


> don't say meaningless .
> 
> The old book is written by Chinese and printed in China It is evidence for that long time ago Chinese had recognized that there is Cochin (Vietnam) Sea. Nine dashed line is fabricated by KMT in 1948.


So what? 

India Ocean doesn't mean the ocean belonging to India; Japan Sea doesn't mean the sea belonging to Japan; a lake in US is called as China Lake (US Navy weapon test center China Lake), but that doesn't mean the lake belonging to China. A very large part of Japan is even called as "中国". But it doesn't mean that part of Japan's land belongs to China.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## 52051

Hehe, with trump being the US president, I really want to see the expression of the lapdogs of the US now, it must be priceless

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## 艹艹艹

*China Post issues stamps featuring South China Sea lighthouses*
People's Daily Online | Updated: 2016-11-08 14:03

















[Photo/People's Daily Online]

China Post issued a set of postage stamps on Oct 28 featuring five lighthouses located in the South China Sea. With a simple and elegant design, the stamps showcase multi-functional lighthouses built since 2015.

The five chosen lighthouses support safe navigation in the region, reducing risks and accidents. A transportation official named Shi Junfeng said that the lighthouses provide services including route guidance, navigation and safety bulletins, improving navigational aid and emergency rescue in their adjacent waters.

The designers of the lighthouses incorporated various Chinese cultural images into the blueprints, conveying the friendliness of Chinese people to foreign seafarers. Completed in 137 days, the lighthouses in Huayang and Chigua reefs set records for the shortest construction time in China's history.

The light emitted by the lighthouses covers a range of up to 22 nautical miles. In addition, the Automatic Identification System and Very High Frequency base stations installed in all five lighthouses further ensure the safety of vessels in the South China Sea.

Shi commented that even though the construction of these lighthouses was challenging, it felt worthwhile each time their lights finally turned on.
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/culture/2016-11/08/content_27310154.htm

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## 艹艹艹

*China, Vietnam conclude joint patrol in Beibu Gulf*
(Xinhua) 21:04, November 09, 2016





(File photo)

China and Vietnam concluded a three-day joint patrol mission in a common fishing zone inthe Beibu Gulf Wednesday.

Coast guards from both sides completed a series of scheduled tasks, including a joint patrol,maritime search and rescue exercise, and examination of fishing boats, amid strong windsand high waves, according to a China Coast Guard (CCG) statement.

The two sides also discussed law enforcement experiences and visited each other's ships.

This has been the two countries' second joint patrol in 2016; the first being in April. Fourcoast guard ships were involved in the latest mission.

The two countries have conducted 12 joint law enforcement exercises in the commonfishing zone since 2006, the statement said.

The latest mission will help the two sides' maritime search and rescue abilities, andstrengthen personnel communication and law enforcement cooperation, according to LiuTianrong, the Chinese commander of the mission.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## eldamar

kecho said:


> *Chinese postage stamps violate Vietnam's sovereignty*
> 
> By VnExpress November 4, 2016 | 12:14 pm GMT+7
> *Vietnamese collectors have alerted authorities of the violation and called for official disapproval.*
> The Vietnam Stamp Club, a group of local collectors, has informed the government that China Post’s new stamps violate Vietnam’s sovereignty over an island chain in the East Sea, the Vietnamese reference for the South China Sea.
> 
> In a document sent to the information ministry on Wednesday, the group said the Chinese State Post Bureau issued a set of five stamps named “Chinese lighthouses,” depicting lighthouses constructed on five reefs of Vietnam’s Spratly Islands, which were illegally occupied by China in 1988 and 1995.
> 
> Hoang Anh Thi, head of the club, said that the new stamps have violated Vietnam’s sovereignty. China uses the pretext of stamp issuance to deceive the public over its illegal actions, Thi added.
> 
> This is the third time China Post has released stamps violating Vietnam's sovereignty over the Spratlys and Paracels, another island chain in the East Sea.
> 
> Earlier, in 2004 it issued a stamp set featuring frontier scenes of China, one of which showed the image of Paracel Islands, which China has taken by force since 1974.
> 
> In 2013, China Post distributed another stamp set with one stamp featuring the islands. This time, the Vietnam’s Post Department demanded that China Post abolish stamps, envelops and postcards that violated Vietnam’s sovereignty and avoid similar actc.
> 
> China Post, however, apparently repeated the violation with the new stamps issued late last month.
> 
> The Vietnam Stamp Club proposed that the information ministry speak out against China Post's action and issue a set of its own stamps showing images of the Spratly and Paracel Islands to reaffirm Vietnam’s sovereignty.
> 
> Source: https://defence.pk/threads/south-china-sea-forum.196058/page-727#ixzz4PZCsHEG8
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean that Namviet is true Vietnam today ?
> 
> So we can claim back that Guangdong and Guangxi province is Vietnam's historic territory. So that Cantonese, Hokkien people from Guandong and Guangxi is origin Vietnamese, you have to join with us to fight counter Han Chinese's invasion in East Sea of Vietnam.



Why don't you say the Han Chiness should claim back the southern half of Namviet all the way to Da Nang instead?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## GS Zhou

kecho said:


> You are funny Chinese boy.
> 
> In China and Japan both, Han Zi is offical writting characters used from long time ago. "中国" in Japanese is name of one location in territory of Japan. "中国" in China is brifly called to the name of one country *中*华人民共和*国. Íts two diferent thing.*
> 
> Cochin (交趾) is name of Vietnamese people, is written in Chinese, so 交趾 洋 (Cochin Sea) dóse mean that there is Vietnam's Sea.



You are a very funny Vietnam kid. You know few about Chinese history nor Chinese characters, but you even dare to explain Chinese characters in front of a Chinese!

中国 is served as short to 中华人民共和国 only? Are you sure??

Below is an arm protector digged from a Han-Dynasty tomb in Xinjiang in 1995. See what is written on it? 五星出东方利中国, or "Five star rises in the East, brings benefits to 中国". You mean Han-Dynasty people already predict the birth of 中华人民共和国？







The following is what written on He Zun （何尊）, a bronze vessels made in the Western Zhou Dynasty (1046–771 BC). The highlighted characters are 宅兹中国, or "own the place called 中国". So you mean Western Zhou Dynasty people also predict the birth of 中华人民共和国？






South China Sea belongs to us. So we have the right to make whatever names to the sea. Just like that part of Japan belongs to Japan fully, so the Japanese people has the right to bring whatever names to that part of land. Even Japan calls such a big part of its land as 中国, but we Chinese will never believe that part belongs to us, simply because of the name.



kecho said:


> When China hand back to Vietnam our Islands, we can do same sea join patrol in all SCS (Vietnam East Sea).


China will eventually get back all China's islands that are currently illegally occupied by Vietnam. That day won't be too far away, 20 to 25 years maximally!

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## GS Zhou

kecho said:


> This battle is just beginning.


Among so many of your posts here, this is the very few that I could agree fully. You are perfectly right, the battle is just beginning! 

Just take a look at our ship builders and aircraft plants

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## GS Zhou

kecho said:


> This battle is just beginning.


more defense industry pictures to follow. Hope you like.

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## lonelyman

kecho said:


> I'm impressive for that in Zhou and Han Dynasty, was predicted that 5 star is the symbol of modern China.
> 
> But I have to note you that Zhou and Han Dynasty origin territory is in north China only. So right full territory of China is limited there. Invasion of China to southerner countries is illegal.
> 
> 
> 
> Pynoy flag is seen in his pullover.
> 
> On SCS dispute, Vietnamese has fighting counter Chinese thief to protect our Islands and reef shoal in East Sea òf Vietnam, Many Vietnamese was sacrificed his life in 1974 and 1988 for the our country sovereignty.
> 
> 
> 
> Its called China's dream. China can't swallow our Islands and reefs. This battle is just beginning.


Viet troll, stop crying in public, that's shameful

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## lonelyman

*The Trans-Pacific Partnership is dead, Schumer tells labor leaders*
*
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...tnership-is-dead-schumer-tells-labor-leaders/*

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## terranMarine

Eveybody says TPP is dead but for some odd reasons @kecho wants us to believe it's on the edge of revival by posting past articles  , maybe someone has to use Viet language to deliver him the obituary if English is too hard to understand.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cirr

terranMarine said:


> Eveybody says TPP is dead but for some odd reasons @kecho wants us to believe it's on the edge of revival by posting past articles  , maybe someone has to use Viet language to deliver him the obituary if English is too hard to understand.



It is a case of "cling on to the bitter end" for some Viets.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## shjliu

terranMarine said:


> Eveybody says TPP is dead but for some odd reasons @kecho wants us to believe it's on the edge of revival by posting past articles  , maybe someone has to use Viet language to deliver him the obituary if English is too hard to understand.


TPP was never being born yet, how can it be dead??


----------



## sinait

kecho said:


> Why ? 南越 , or 南粤 is the homeland of Hakka people, they claimed themselves as Chinese now even though they are living in Taiwan or in Singapore.



Wonder where you got this. Hakka people of "Guest" are Han originally from Northern China but became "Guest" all over China, Taiwan and South East Asia.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cirr

*Firm that helped build South China Sea islands wins Philippine contract*
*
BY JESSE JOHNSON*

STAFF WRITER

A Chinese state-owned firm that helped build man-made islands in a disputed area of the South China Sea has clinched a big-ticket infrastructure deal with the Philippines, a rival claimant to the strategic waters, amid Manila’s newfound detente with Beijing, a report has said.

The China Communications Construction Co. (CCCC), a state-owned infrastructure group, signed a contract with the Philippines’ Mega Harbor Port and Development Inc. to conduct a 208-hectare land-reclamation project in the harbor of Davao city, where Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte formerly served as mayor, the Beijing Youth Daily reported Monday.

The reclamation is expected to finished by the end of 2019, it said. CCCC Dredging is the largest dredging company in China in terms of capacity and installed power, the report said.

Beijing has built seven artificial islands on rocks and reefs it controls in the Spratly chain of the South China Sea, with a dredging ship owned by CCCC seen in surveillance photos at one of the islets there in early 2015, the Wall Street Journal reported in November.

Analysts say the agreement is part of moves by Duterte to repair ties with Beijing amid the row over the South China Sea.

In July, a ruling by an international arbitration court invalidated China’s claims to much of the strategic waterway, through which about $5 trillion worth of trade passes every year. Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines, Taiwan and Vietnam all have rival claims in the waters.

The U.S. Defense Department’s annual report on China’s military said in May that while Beijing had paused its land-reclamation work in the disputed Spratlys late last year after adding more than 3,200 acres (1,280 hectares) of land to seven features it occupies there, the man-made islets give it long-term “civil-military” outposts from where it can project power.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## GS Zhou

A most recent news from China's Xisha islands said that the seawater desalination of the Xisha Islands has reached 500,000 tons/year; while the fresh water transported from the Hainan Island reduced to about 45,000 ton! Very nice progress!!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
三沙基础设施不断完善 西沙岛礁年生产海淡水50万吨
来源： 南海网 作者：高鹏 时间：2016-11-12 22:38:00 　　
　　南海网、南海网客户端三沙11月12日消息(南海网记者高鹏)11月12日，中国共产党三沙市第一次代表大会在三沙市永兴岛召开，南海网记者了解到，三沙设市以来，加快基础设施建设，推动一批重大基础设施建设取得成效，岛礁发生翻天覆地变化。

　　据了解，2013年3月，西沙邮轮旅游航线正式开通，截至目前共开121航次，接待游客2.3万人次，既带动了西沙岛礁服务业发展和渔民就业增收，促进了居民常态居住，增加了民事存在，为巩固政权创造了条件。

　　永兴、赵述居委会综合楼陆续建成投入使用，永兴公用住房1、2号楼建成投入使用，3、4号楼建设主体已完工。建设永兴应急物资储备中心，建成储量1200余吨的冷库。永兴岛上有了农产品自选超市、哨兵超市、美食园、理发店、冷饮店、咖啡屋。永兴学校建成开学，2016年招收29名学生。

　　市人民医院建成投用，医治住岛军民13291人次，120紧急救治重症患者154人，培训卫生员14名，每个居委会岛礁建立了卫生室，大大方便了远离大陆岛礁居民的看病问题。双拥运动场、三沙体育馆和岛礁文化室、文化广场的建成，极大丰富住岛军民的文体生活。

　　建成岛礁海水淡化厂9座，其中永兴岛1000吨海水淡化厂建成试运行，管网全岛覆盖，*西沙岛礁年生产海淡水50万吨，从海南本岛运输补给淡水累计4.5万吨*。委托南方电网管理运营三沙电力，完成了永兴电网改造，新电厂预计2017年1月建成投产，将新增1000千瓦发电能力，其他岛礁都安装发电机组并逐步实现“双保险、双保障”。完成永兴岛全岛路网建设，赵述岛、晋卿岛环岛路已经建成，七连屿北岛、中岛、南岛生态小道正在建设，甘泉岛环岛路正在开展前期工作。

　　这些实实在在的变化，让岛上居民感受到生活质量的改善，幸福指数的提高。三沙市委组织部副部长黄广南说，举个例子，三沙设市前，他就在永兴岛上工作，以前整个岛只有一部座机电话，打电话要排队，而且排队时间长，加上电话费贵，打电话可以说是奢望。三沙设市后，通信设施改善，各岛礁手机信号全面覆盖，与外界通信不再是“奢望”。另外岛礁配有卫生员，渔民的伤病可以及时救治。

　　“现在永兴岛上的生活非常方便，水电不缺，而且各类物资非常齐全。”三沙市信息中心工作人员冯见升说，医院、学校、超市等机构现在都有，未来他想把儿子接到永兴学校上学。

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## grey boy 2



Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## cochine

*THIS STRIKE GROUP MADE CHINA NERVOUS, EVEN WITHOUT AN AIRCRAFT CARRIER — NAVY TIMES*

Posted on November 20, 2016




Photo by US Navy.
Share on FacebookTweet on Twitter


The first-of-its-kind Pacific surface action group ‘three-destroyer pack’ – Decatur, Momsen and Spruance – patrolled in and out of the South China Sea, playing ‘cat and mouse with the Chinese fleet and surveilled China’s man-made islands,’ according to Navy Times.

The destroyers, are back from their western Pacific deployment. The group was deployed in April on a quest to fine-tune so-called “distributed lethality” tactics, which breaks up more traditional strike groups and amphibious ready groups. “Top surface warfare officer Vice Adm. Tom Rowden has been championing a concept designed to join up surface combatants that can spread out the enemy’s surveillance assets and ships, and that adds long range anti-ship and anti-sub weapons to make the ships more deadly. The destroyers were sent out to test the concepts in the real world,” says the report.

http://tankler.com/this-strike-grou...n-without-an-aircraft-carrier-navy-times-9966


----------



## TaiShang

*China's destroyers stage drills in S. China Sea
CRI, November 21, 2016*




The Chinese navy stage a 5-day drill on the South China Sea. The South China Sea Fleet destroyers carried out missions on anti-piracy, special combat soldiers' cable drop, hijacking and anti-hijacking, and comprehensive replenishment under complex conditions. The drill aims to improve the ability of accomplishing multiple types of military missions. [Photo: Chinanews.com]




The Chinese navy stage a 5-day drill on the South China Sea. The South China Sea Fleet destroyers carried out missions on anti-piracy, special combat soldiers' cable drop, hijacking and anti-hijacking, and comprehensive replenishment under complex conditions. The drill aims to improve the ability of accomplishing multiple types of military missions. [Photo: Chinanews.com]




The Chinese navy stage a 5-day drill on the South China Sea. The South China Sea Fleet destroyers carried out missions on anti-piracy, special combat soldiers' cable drop, hijacking and anti-hijacking, and comprehensive replenishment under complex conditions. The drill aims to improve the ability of accomplishing multiple types of military missions. [Photo: Chinanews.com]




The Chinese navy stage a 5-day drill on the South China Sea. The South China Sea Fleet destroyers carried out missions on anti-piracy, special combat soldiers' cable drop, hijacking and anti-hijacking, and comprehensive replenishment under complex conditions. The drill aims to improve the ability of accomplishing multiple types of military missions. [Photo: Chinanews.com]




The Chinese navy stage a 5-day drill on the South China Sea. The South China Sea Fleet destroyers carried out missions on anti-piracy, special combat soldiers' cable drop, hijacking and anti-hijacking, and comprehensive replenishment under complex conditions. The drill aims to improve the ability of accomplishing multiple types of military missions. [Photo: Chinanews.com]




The Chinese navy stage a 5-day drill on the South China Sea. The South China Sea Fleet destroyers carried out missions on anti-piracy, special combat soldiers' cable drop, hijacking and anti-hijacking, and comprehensive replenishment under complex conditions. The drill aims to improve the ability of accomplishing multiple types of military missions. [Photo: Chinanews.com]

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## cochine

*American guided-missile destroyer arrives in Manila*

November 21, 2016 PNA Nation 0

ShareTweet



The forward-deployed Arleigh Burke-class guided-missile destroyer USS McCampbell (DDG 85) arrived in Manila Nov. 18. A US Embassy in Manila statement on Monday said the port visit highlights the strong community and military connections between the Philippines and the United States.

The port visit follows McCampbell’s successful completion of a training exercise with the Royal Brunei Navy during Cooperation Afloat Readiness and Training (CARAT) 2016. CARAT is a series of annual maritime exercises between the U.S. Navy, U.S. Marine Corps, and the armed forces of nine partner nations to include Bangladesh, Brunei, Cambodia, Indonesia, Malaysia, the Philippines, Singapore, Thailand, and Timor-Leste.

The brief port call will allow McCampbell to replenish supplies as well as give sailors time to rest and relax.

Petty Officer 1st Class Ambrosio Maddagan, a Filipino-American from Honolulu, Hawaii, said, “I am very excited for this upcoming port visit because I will be able to show my fellow shipmates my heritage and culture.”

McCampbell is commanded by Cmdr. Ed Angelinas and crewed by approximately 300 Sailors, of whom 20 are Filipino-Americans.

McCampbell is on patrol with the Carrier Strike Group Five (CSG 5) in the U.S. 7th Fleet area of responsibility supporting security and stability in the Indo-Asia-Pacific.

http://www.update.ph/2016/11/american-guided-missile-destroyer-arrives-in-manila/11194


----------



## JSCh

*Duterte to Declare Fishing Ban in Chinese-Controlled Lagoon*
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESSNOV. 21, 2016, 5:48 A.M. E.S.T.

MANILA, Philippines — Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte has decided to declare a lagoon in China-controlled waters to be a marine sanctuary where Filipinos and Chinese will be prohibited from fishing, officials said Monday.

China seized the Scarborough Shoal in 2012 after a tense standoff with the Philippines. Duterte's plan is delicate because it may imply Philippine territorial control there. Chinese coast guard ships have closely guarded the shoal since then, and both governments have suspected the other of planning construction to cement their claims to the area.



--> Duterte to Declare Fishing Ban in Chinese-Controlled Lagoon - The New York Times


----------



## 艹艹艹

*China, Malaysia begin joint military exercises amid closerties*
(Xinhua) 20:48, November 22, 2016
Chinese and Malaysian armed forces began a joint exercise on Tuesday in Paya Indah, awetlands park in the state of Selangor, as the two countries aim to forge closer military tiesand safety and security cooperation.

"Aman Youyi 2016," or "Peace Friendship 2016," is a joint exercise on humanitarianassistance and disaster relief, involving 410 participants from the Malaysian Armed Forcesand 195 from the Chinese People's Liberation Army. Observers from the Royal ThaiArmed Forces will also witness the exercise.

Launching the opening ceremony of the exercise, Fang Fenghui, a member of China'sCentral Military Commission (CMC) and chief of the Joint Staff Department under theCMC, expressed the hope that the two sides can take this opportunity to make continuousjoint efforts in combating terrorism and addressing maritime threats.

"We've always believed that nothing is more important than the all-round growth of thefriendly relations between the two countries and the two militaries as well as jointlysafeguarding peace and stability in the region including the South China Sea," said Fang.

He also reiterated China's stance on the South China Sea and pointed out that China alwaysopposes outside interference in the South China Sea issue.

Zulkifeli Bin Mohd Zin, chief of the Malaysian defense force, said multinational initiativessuch as "Aman Youyi" would afford greater synchronization and stronger awareness inhumanitarian assistance and disaster relief operations.

After the opening ceremony, Chinese special forces performed close quarters combat skillswhile commanding officers from the two sides conducted a Table Top Exercise.

China and Malaysia have seen closer military ties in recent years. It is the third time thatChina and Malaysia have conducted such joint exercises. Last month, a Chinese naval fleetpaid a friendly visit to the Malaysian port of Klang.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cochine

*US, PH alliance remains strong: Commitment on cooperation renewed in latest MDB-SEB*

November 22, 2016 PNA Nation 0

ShareTweet



The military alliance between the United States and the Philippines remains strong as both parties have committed to continue close cooperation in areas central to the national and security interest of both nations. This was the essence of Tuesday’s Mutual Defense Board and Security Engagement Board (MDB-SEB) which was held in Camp Aguinaldo, Quezon City.

“We look forward to continued, close cooperation in areas central to both our national and security interests including humanitarian assistance and disaster relief, counter-terrorism, cyber security, and maritime security,” AFP spokesperson Brig. Gen. Restituto Padilla said.

This highlights the enduring commitment of both countries to the US-Philippine alliance.

This year’s MDB-SEB meeting was jointly presided by AFP chief-of-staff Gen. Ricardo R. Visaya and US Pacific Command head Admiral Harry B. Harris, Jr.

They were joined and supported by various standing committees and participating agencies of both governments.

“The successful completion of the MDB-SEB ensures continued, robust relations between the US and Philippine militaries,” Padilla added.

Earlier, the Department of National Defense (DND) announced that the Enhanced Defense Cooperation Agreement (EDCA) with the US will continue but it will focus on humanitarian assistance and disaster relief, counter-terror, and anti-narcotics operations.

“EDCA will continue (but it) be under the basis of this new direction,” it further stressed.
http://www.update.ph/2016/11/us-ph-...n-cooperation-renewed-in-latest-mdb-seb/11249


----------



## cirr

Way to go, way to go 

http://tv.cctv.com/2016/11/22/VIDE7ECUzLpxFaYC5Of4gKks161122.shtml

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## cochine

*5 AIRCRAFT FROM JAPAN SCHEDULED FOR TRANSFER TO PHILIPPINES*
Posted on November 23, 2016






Share on FacebookTweet on Twitter


Japan’s Maritime Self-Defense Force (JMSDF) scheduled to transfer its five TC-90 aircraft to the Philippines around March, with plans to bolster its maritime patrolling capabilities beneficial in countering China’s assertiveness in the South China Sea.

The country leased 5 TC-90 patrol aircraft from Japan to be used for humanitarian assistance and disaster relief activities.

JMSDF said it will start training Philippine naval pilots next week to operate the TC-90. The first trainees — two lieutenant commanders — will undergo training from next Monday through March 24 at the MSDF’s Tokushima Air Base in Tokushima Prefecture. A total of six Philippine pilots will be trained through November next year, JMSDF said in a press release.

Doubling the current Philippine Navy’s aircraft, TC-90 has a flight range of about 2,000 kilometers.

http://tankler.com/5-aircraft-from-japan-scheduled-for-transfer-to-philippines-10082


----------



## TaiShang

*Ministry: island's status not changed 
China Daily, November 23, 2016*

*China said its sovereignty and administration over Huangyan Island in the South China Sea "has not and will not change", and that China and the Philippines should strengthen dialogue and cooperation to make the South China Sea issue a positive factor for enhancing bilateral friendship and cooperation.*

Foreign Ministry spokesman Geng Shuang made the remarks in a daily news conference on Tuesday in response to reports that Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte will issue an order to ban all fishermen from fishing in the lagoon of the island.

During their meeting in Lima, the capital of Peru, on Saturday, President Xi Jinping told Duterte that the two countries should stick to friendly cooperation and proper management of differences, while Duterte said the Philippines is willing to handle maritime issues through dialogue and consultation with China.

*Geng said: "China has made proper arrangements regarding Filipino fishermen fishing in waters near Huangyan Island."*

Tensions around Huangyan Island, one of China's islands in the South China Sea, rose in April 2012, when a Philippine military vessel confronted Chinese fishermen who were fishing in the island's lagoon and were later evacuated with the help of Chinese maritime law enforcement vessels.

Ties between China and the Philippines further worsened when the previous Philippine government unilaterally filed an arbitration case over the South China Sea.

Duterte, who became Philippine president in June and had voiced intentions to talk to China over bilateral maritime disputes, visited China in October, helping to improve bilateral ties.

Chen Qinghong, a researcher of Southeast Asian studies at the China Institutes of Contemporary International Relations, said the ban to be issued is in line with the two countries' efforts to improve relations and resolve South China Sea disputes through dialogue and consultation, and it helps improve the environment of the island.

"The ban has nothing to do with sovereignty," Chen said, *adding that the news may be distorted by Western media or some political forces in the Philippines*, as the move suggests the country has a legitimate claim to Huangyan Island.

China will not accept such distortion, Chen said.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## JSCh

Yongshu hospital open.

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## cochine

Last update 15:20 | 17/11/2016

*Japan, Malaysia affirm stance on East Sea issue*
_ Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe and his Malaysian counterpart Najib Razak affirmed their common stance on territorial disputes in the East Sea on November 16. _

_



_


_Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe (R) and his Malaysian counterpart Najib Razak_




In a press briefing following their talks in Tokyo, Abe said both sides underscored the importance of self-restraint and peaceful settlement of maritime disputes in line with international law, including the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea. 

Malaysia, along with three other members of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) - the Philippines, Vietnam and Brunei - are among the countries contesting territorial claims with China in the East Sea. China claims nearly the entire body of water as its territory. 

Japan and Malaysia signed an agreement in which Tokyo will provide Kuala Lumpur with two decommissioned patrol vessels from the Japan Coast Guard. 

Previously, Japan also handed over patrol vessels to Indonesia, the Philippines and Vietnam in an effort to strengthen their maritime security.

It is the fourth Japan visit by Najib since taking office in 2009.-_VNA_


----------



## grey boy 2



Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## 艹艹艹

kecho said:


> Last update 15:20 | 17/11/2016
> 
> *Japan, Malaysia affirm stance on East Sea issue*
> _ Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe and his Malaysian counterpart Najib Razak affirmed their common stance on territorial disputes in the East Sea on November 16. _
> 
> _
> 
> 
> 
> _
> 
> 
> _Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe (R) and his Malaysian counterpart Najib Razak_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In a press briefing following their talks in Tokyo, Abe said both sides underscored the importance of self-restraint and peaceful settlement of maritime disputes in line with international law, including the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea.
> 
> Malaysia, along with three other members of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) - the Philippines, Vietnam and Brunei - are among the countries contesting territorial claims with China in the East Sea. China claims nearly the entire body of water as its territory.
> 
> Japan and Malaysia signed an agreement in which Tokyo will provide Kuala Lumpur with two decommissioned patrol vessels from the Japan Coast Guard.
> 
> Previously, Japan also handed over patrol vessels to Indonesia, the Philippines and Vietnam in an effort to strengthen their maritime security.
> 
> It is the fourth Japan visit by Najib since taking office in 2009.-_VNA_


@kecho
Vietnamese leader and Japanese PM ？？？

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cochine

long_ said:


> @kecho
> Vietnamese leader and Japanese PM ？？？



*Japan, Vietnam reiterate joint efforts to peacefully resolve South China Sea disputes*



PUBLISHED : Monday, 21 November, 2016, 3:51pm
UPDATED : Monday, 21 November, 2016, 3:51pm

COMMENTS: 











Kyodo

Japan and Vietnam on Sunday affirmed their commitment to peacefully resolving disputes in the South China Sea in line with international law, as Tokyo prepares to provide Hanoi with patrol ships to strengthen its maritime law-enforcement capabilities amid a territorial row with China.

Meeting on the sidelines of a Pacific Rim summit in Lima, Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe and Vietnamese President Tran Dai Quang agreed to promote domestic procedures for each country so as to implement the Trans-Pacific Partnership, a 12-nation free trade agreement, according to the Japanese Foreign Ministry. Preparations are under way to provide the patrols ships promised to Vietnam in September, Abe told Quang.

Japan’s maritime force conducts joint drills with Vietnam’s navy in South China Sea base

Vietnam is among a handful of Asian countries embroiled in territorial disputes with Beijing in the South China Sea. Abe promised Japan’s full support to Vietnam for its hosting of next year’s summit of the 21-member Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation forum. Quang praised a planned visit to Vietnam in next spring by Japanese Emperor Akihito and Empress Michiko.

In separate talks, Abe and US President Barack Obama agreed to continue close bilateral coordination in promoting the TPP and handling other international issues, the ministry said.

Abe and Obama, who will leave office in January, hailed each other’s leadership in strengthening the Japan-US alliance for peace and prosperity of the Asia-Pacific region.

Japan pledges more vessels for Vietnam’s security amid maritime dispute with China

In a meeting with James Soong, chairman of Taiwan’s People First Party, Abe said he hopes Beijing and Taipei will promote peaceful relations through dialogue, and that stable cross-strait ties will contribute to peace and prosperity in East Asia, according to the ministry.

Abe and Soong agreed to continue developing relations between Japan and Taiwan under the administration of President Tsai Ing-wen launched in May. Tsai’s Democratic Progressive Party has traditionally been sceptical of closer ties with China.

Abe held separate talks with Quang, Obama and Soong on the fringes of a two-day APEC summit that ended Sunday in the Peruvian capital. Soong attended the summit as Tsai’s proxy.


----------



## DayWalker90

Various aspects of life on YongShu island






It's hard to imagine that just a few years ago there was nothing here but a handful of barely surfaced reefs. Now there are office buildings, a stadium, high-tech agriculture, state of the art hospitals. Simply Amazing.

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## cochine

*Indonesia hosts workshop on the East Sea
*
_The 26th workshop on managing potential conflicts in the East Sea took place from November 15-17 in Bandung, Indonesia._


_



_



The workshop drew representatives from Indonesia, Brunei, Myanmar, Malaysia, Laos, the Philippines, Singapore, Vietnam, China and Taiwan-China. 

Speaking at the opening ceremony, Desra Percaya, Director General for Asia-Pacific African Affairs of the Indonesian Ministry of Foreign Affairs, stressed the importance of the East Sea to the region and the world, affirming Indonesia consistent commitment to maintaining peace, stability and prosperity in the area. 

Among the topics discussed were projects which were approved at previous events. 

In particular, participants lauded the efforts of governing bodies in carrying out projects, such as Study of Tides and Sea Level Change and Their Impacts on Coastal Environment in the East Sea, East Asia Network for Education and Training and Maritime Law Enforcement “Pre Service Training”. 

They also offered suggestions for effective project implementation and reviews on new cooperation project proposals and master plans for future workshops. 

First held in 1990, the workshop helps boost understanding and cooperation between countries, contributing to managing potential conflicts and maintaining peace and stability in the East Sea. 

It is considered an important channel to foster cooperation and build trust in the East Sea.

_VNA_


----------



## ahojunk

*Two drowning Philippine fishermen rescued in South China Sea*
2016-11-29 20:42 | Xinhua | _Editor: Mo Hong'e_

Two Philippine fishermen, drowning in waters off Huangyan Island in the South China Sea, have been rescued by Chinese coast guard.

At a routine press briefing on Tuesday, Foreign Ministry spokesperson Geng Shuang was asked to comment on a media report that the Philippine coast guard was searching for five Filipinos who failed to return from a fishing trip.

"China has deployed ships in search operations," Geng said.

A media report quoted Philippine coast guard officials as saying that the fishermen left waters off Huangyan Island due to an approaching typhoon last week and have not been heard from since.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## cochine

*Vietnam condemns Taiwan's military drills in flashpoint waters*
By VnExpress November 30, 2016 | 02:00 am GMT+7



Vietnam’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs denounced Taiwan on Tuesday over the latter's ongoing military drills on Ba Binh (Itu Aba) Island in the Truong Sa (Spratly Islands), which is Vietnam's sovereign territory.

Taiwan’s actions are a serious violation of Vietnam's sovereignty, threatening peace, stability, security and maritime safety while causing tensions and complicating the situation in the East Sea, the Vietnamese foreign ministry said in a statement, using the Vietnamese reference for the South China Sea.

Vietnam has demanded that Taiwan refrain from similar actions, the statement said.

Vietnam has reiterated that it has full historical evidence and the legal foundation to prove its sovereignty over the Hoang Sa (Paracel) Island and the Spratlys in the East Sea.

China, Taiwan, the Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia and Brunei claim parts or all of the energy-rich East Sea, through which trillions of dollars in trade passes annually.

Taiwan, which currently occupies Ba Binh Island, conducted search-and-rescue exercises near the island on Tuesday, according to _Reuters._

Coastguard vessels and navy helicopters practiced how to retrieve injured crewmen from a burning ship and transport them to the island's small port and hospital, the newswire reported.


----------



## terranMarine

*Duterte's pivot away from US, timely and significant*

The dramatic improvement in the relationship between China and the Philippines has raised a lot of eyebrows in the West, but it is definitely in the best interests of the two neighbors as well as those of other nations in Southeast Asia.

On Friday, in his latest indication of his goodwill toward China, Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte told the Philippine Star that he is considering making a second visit to China. While earlier this month in Lima, Peru, when meeting with President Xi Jinping on the sidelines of the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation Economic Leaders' Meeting, the Philippine leader also said his country is willing to be friends with "brotherly" China forever.

Since taking office, Duterte has been matching words with deeds to turn a new page in his country's relationship with China. His commitment to putting his country's relationship with China back on the right track has won him much applause in both countries.

Under his predecessor Benigno Aquino III, bilateral ties had been strained for years due to the Philippines' provocations and challenges to China's maritime interests at the instigation of the United States.

Duterte's October visit to China has broken the ice between the two countries and reaped fruitful results in furthering bilateral cooperation in various fields.

According Philippine estimates, China-proposed investment commitments to the Philippines could add up to $15 billion. This will bring huge benefits to the Philippines as it is three times larger than the total FDI inflows to the Philippines in 2015, which were estimated at $5.3 billion.

The new momentum in bilateral cooperation is based on reciprocity and win-win outcomes, and there is every reason for the Philippines to continue to inject impetus into the current desirable momentum in bilateral ties.

Soon after Duterte's visit, China also allowed Philippine fishermen to return to the waters of China's Huangyan Island in a sign of the resumed friendship between the two neighbors.

Such positive developments have helped calm down the troubled waters in the South China Sea, which were threatening to come to the boil.

A healthy and growing relationship between Beijing and Manila is obviously a boon to the region at large, especially the members of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations. This is especially true considering that previous Philippine government used every occasion of the bloc's annual meetings to raise the South China Sea issue, doing a lot of damage to the unity of the regional organization.

Just like Kavi Chongkittavorn, a senior journalist and international relations expert in Thailand, rightfully pointed out in an opinion piece earlier this month, for the past six years, the government of ex-president Aquino III had pursued its own isolationist policy by seeking support solely from the US while ignoring ASEAN diplomacy.

The consequences of Aquino III's policy have been toxic as ASEAN is an organization that operates on the premise of consensus. Without consensus, the 10-member bloc cannot possibly unite all its members and effectively cooperate with its regional partners to press ahead with its ambitious plan for an ASEAN Community.

Now that Duterte has made a strategic pivot away from the US, the Philippines can resume being a whole-hearted member of the bloc. This crucial change is what ASEAN needs right now as it has to cope with the new global political and economic realities.

Globalization is losing ground while trade protectionism is gaining support in the West. Against this backdrop, the members of ASEAN should do their utmost to strive for unity and greater consensuses which are the keys for realizing their vision for an ASEAN community. To this end, Duterte's pivot is both timely and significant.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## TaiShang

*Chinese navy marks 70th anniversary of recovering Xisha, Nansha Islands*
(Xinhua) December 08, 2016

BEIJING, Dec. 8 (Xinhua) -- The People's Liberation Army(PLA) Navy on Thursday commemorated the 70th anniversary of the recovery of the Xisha and Nansha Islands.

*In compliance of the Cairo Declaration and Potsdam Proclamation, China in November and December 1946 designated officials to proceed to the Xisha and Nansha Islands by four warships to take over the islands, illegally occupied by Japan.*

Ceremonies were held to demonstrate that China resumed the exercise of sovereignty over the islands.

"Recovering these islands was an important achievement of China's war against aggression, demonstrating that China was firmly safeguarding the post-war international order and affirming the nation as defending its rights and interests in the South China Sea," said PLA Navy Commander Wu Shengli at the commemoration.

*Wu said construction on the islands and reefs are "lawful, justified, and reasonable" being in Chinese territory.*

China is committed to resolving the disputes in a peaceful manner through negotiations and consultations, controlling differences through regulations and achieving a win-win solution through mutually beneficial cooperation, Wu said.

He stressed that history should be respected, and stability maintained by strengthening mutual trust and deepening cooperation, so that peace and development in countries in the South China Sea is assured.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## JSCh

*China asks for halt of illegal construction in Nansha islands*
(Xinhua) 09:35, December 10, 2016

China urged "relevant country" to respect its sovereignty and stop illegal invasions and construction activities on the Nansha Islands and their adjacent waters, Foreign Ministry Spokesman Lu Kang said Friday.

Lu made the remarks at a press briefing in response to a media report that Vietnam has started dredging work on a reef in the southwestern fringe of the Nansha Islands in the South China Sea.

"We urge relevant country to respect China's sovereignty and rights, stop illegal invasion and construction activities, and not to take actions that could complicate the situation," Lu said.

China has indisputable sovereignty over the Nansha Islands and their adjacent waters, he said.

Lu called on the country to make joint efforts with China for security and stability in the South China Sea region.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## samsara

JSCh said:


> *China asks for halt of illegal construction in Nansha islands*
> (Xinhua) 09:35, December 10, 2016
> 
> China urged "relevant country" to respect its sovereignty and stop illegal invasions and construction activities on the Nansha Islands and their adjacent waters, Foreign Ministry Spokesman Lu Kang said Friday.
> 
> Lu made the remarks at a press briefing in response to a media report that Vietnam has started dredging work on a reef in the southwestern fringe of the Nansha Islands in the South China Sea.
> 
> "We urge relevant country to respect China's sovereignty and rights, stop illegal invasion and construction activities, and not to take actions that could complicate the situation," Lu said.
> 
> China has indisputable sovereignty over the Nansha Islands and their adjacent waters, he said.
> 
> Lu called on the country to make joint efforts with China for security and stability in the South China Sea region.


Read everywhere in the news stream today, the mainstream media networks (MSM) are campaigning this news all over medium. Vietnam is the most stubborn though relatively silent contender of China's claim over the South China Sea, they talk less but action more.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## beijingwalker

Beijing tops China Integrated City Index 2016
China.org.cn, November 29, 2016
Beijing, Shanghai and Shenzhen top the city rankings based on the economic, social and environmental dimensions, according to China Integrated City Index 2016 issued by the People’s Publishing House on Nov. 28










http://www.china.org.cn/china/2016-11/29/content_39808830_2.htm

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## beijingwalker



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## grey boy 2

Y-8 electronic surveillance aircraft that stationed at our Yongshu Island patrolling the our frontier of SCS

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## samsara

*China consolidates its positions in the South China Sea*

*By Henri Kenhmann 24 November 2016*

A new hospital, three 3,000-meter-long airstrips, five lighthouses, 100% 4G telecommunication coverage, farms, desalination plants and solar power plants - China has invested tens of billions of yuan In recent years to extend its basic infrastructure on the distant islands in the Spratly Islands（Nansha Islands 南沙群岛）and consolidate its multiple positions in the South China Sea.

Since July, a class 2A hospital with more than 100 beds and an area of 16,000 m² is inaugurated on the "reef" of Fiery Cross（Yongshu Island 永暑岛）, the 3rd largest island of Spratly that spans 2.8 km², largely due to backfilling.

Work began in November 2015 and was completed in just 8 months. A medical team of about fifty people ensures the proper functioning of the hospital. It has already welcomed more than 1,000 patients and has carried out a hundred operations so far.






The Fiery Cross (Yongshu) Hospital in the South China

In March, a Chinese naval patrol aircraft had to interrupt its current mission and land on Fiery Cross Island （Yongshu Island 永暑岛）in an emergency to repatriate a soldier who had fallen very ill on a Chinese island.

The commissioning of this hospital will greatly alleviate the pressure in medical support in this remote region of the world - whether for garrison soldiers based on the various islands controlled by China, or civilians who continue on-site work - where the nearest corner of the Chinese mainland is more than 1,000 kilometers away.

The interior of the establishment, rather well equipped with a structure of this size, is revealed in a CCTV report:






And there is no doubt that the presence of a medical infrastructure in this part of the South China Sea will give a significant tactical advantage to the Chinese army in times of war and conflict.

In addition to the hospital, five lighthouses were also inaugurated on the five largest Chinese islets in the Spratly Islands （Nansha Islands 南沙群岛）: Subi (Zhubi 渚碧), Mischief (Meiji 美济), Fiery Cross (Yongshu 永暑), Johnson South (Chigua 赤瓜) and Cuarteron (Huayang 华阳). All of these islands have been artificially enlarged.

According to Chinese media, these lighthouses are more than 50 meters high and have a range of 20 nautical miles (around 37 km). They are all equipped with the AIS (Automatic Identification Systems) to track the position of the ships that crisscross the area.










_Lighthouse at Mischief Reef （Meiji Reef 美济礁）_





_Lighthouse at Cuarteron Reef （Huayang Reef 华阳礁）_





_Lighthouse at Fiery Cross Reef （Yongshu Island 永暑岛）_





_Lighthouse at Johnson South Reef （Chigua Reef 赤瓜礁）_





_Lighthouse at Subi Reef （Zhubi Reef 渚碧礁）_

Alongside its maritime utilities, these lighthouses are also an important psychological symbol to remind passers-by of the permanent presence of the Chinese in this highly strategic maritime passage.





_The location of the main Chinese islets in the Spratly Islands （Nansha Islands 南沙群岛）_

After medical care and aid to navigation, another much more vital element that is water demanded much more works from the Chinese. With more than 20,000 people at the peak of the backfilling, spread over the various islets in the Spratly (Nansha), fresh water has always been a problem, due in part to the fact that practically no Chinese islands in the South China Sea has any underground water source.

To remedy this situation, the Chinese have put in place several solutions. In addition to regular supplies from the mainland, rainwater harvesting and the recycling of used water are also the main sources for sanitary and construction needs.

Since 2013, the Chinese state has gradually put into operation desalination plants on all the islands, with capacity ranging from a few tons to a few thousand tons per day depending on the size of the block and the number inhabitants.

We already said, for example, one of these desalination plants installed on Woody Island （Yongxing Island 永兴岛） - the largest city and military base in the Paracel Islands （Xisha Islands 西沙群岛） - in our article "New desalination plant on the Woody (Yongxing) Island".

With freshwater pressure being greatly reduced, the Chinese now want to go further and are working hard to "recreate" a green ecosystem on its islands in the South China Sea, despite they're originally desert.

On the Subi Reef （Zhubi Reef 渚碧礁） for example, more than one million plants of various types, selected carefully by the Chinese Academy of Sciences, were transferred to the site to fix the sand and reduce its expansion. And on the other hand, also provide food to "local animals" and attract birds.

The objective is to create a suitable place for a sustainable settlement.






CCTV's report shows that these islands, although partly artificially created, are perhaps the most ecological place in China - all potentially toxic emissions are placed under control and all waste is recycled to the maximum - this proves that when human can not do otherwise, ecology is no longer just a slogan but an obligation for survival. It is therefore possible that this consciousness comes "naturally".

As for the long runways and landing, the cover of the telecommunications network, we already addressed these points last few months ago in our articles about "China is testing two airfields in the South China Sea " and "The Chinese 4G network covers the Spratly (Nansha) Islands ".

With these works that can be considered "fundamentals", the Chinese are imposing their will on a small fire in this part of the South China Sea, without even the need to raid militarily those islands that are already controlled by neighboring countries.

*In the Spratly (Nansha) Islands, Vietnam and Malaysia are the two countries that control the most reefs, but those recovered by the Chinese nearly 40 years ago are geologically and geographically the most interesting. The orientation and composition of Chinese atolls have greater potential for future development.*

It should be noted that this very progressive but above all very costly method applied by the Chinese in the South China Sea will still have a lasting and destructive effect for the other neighboring countries because it is not only difficult to duplicate but is also difficult to counter on the duration, less to relying prematurely on military operations, which unfortunately will have an uncontrollable and unbearable consequence.

And, paradoxically, this method is still more "constructive" than sending few warships to defend the "freedom of navigation" that has never been violated by any of the countries concerned.

When works on the islets of the Spratly (Nansha) Islands are completed, it is more than probable that the Chinese will do the same on the Scarborough Reef （Huangyan Island 黄岩岛）, which is less than 300 kilometers from the Philippine coasts, and especially from the old Subic Bay naval base, which was more or less the largest overseas military installation for the United States military.

A case to follow.

Henri K.


_A loose translation from the original article written in French by Henri Kenhmann from below link._

http://www.eastpendulum.com/chine-consolide-positions-mer-de-chine-meridionale

*@hk299792458*

Note: The addition of Chinese geographic names and some bold amplification are done by myself.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## samsara

_A beautiful recent aerial picture of *Yongshu Island 永暑岛 (Fiery Cross Reef)*, part of Nansha Islands 南沙群岛 (Spratly Islands), South China Sea. Photo dated December 2016. Image tweeted by @xinfengcao_

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## F-22Raptor

The United States is ready to confront China should it continue its overreaching maritime claims in the South China Sea, the head of the U.S. Pacific fleet said on Wednesday, comments that threaten to escalate tensions between the two global rivals.

China claims most of the resource-rich South China Sea through which about $5 trillion in ship-borne trade passes every year. Neighbours Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines, Taiwan and Vietnam also have claims.

The United States has called on China to respect the findings of arbitration court in The Hague earlier this year which invalidated its vast territorial claims in the strategic waterway.

But Beijing continues to act in an "aggressive" manner, to which the United States stands ready to respond, Admiral Harry Harris, head of the U.S. Pacific Command, said in a speech in Sydney.

"We will not allow a shared domain to be closed down unilaterally no matter how many bases are built on artificial features in the South China Sea," he said. "We will cooperate when we can but we will be ready to confront when we must."

The comments threaten to stoke tensions between the United States and China, already heightened by President-elect Donald Trump's decision to accept a telephone call from Taiwan's president on Dec. 2 that prompted a diplomatic protest from Beijing.

The United States estimates Beijing has added more than 3,200 acres (1,300 hectares) of land on seven features in the South China Sea over the past three years, building runways, ports, aircraft hangars and communications equipment.

In response, the United States has conducted a series of freedom-of-navigation operations in the South China Sea, the latest of which came in October.

The patrols have angered Beijing, with a senior Chinese official in July warning the practice may end in "disaster".

Harris said it was a decision for the Australian government whether the U.S. ally should undertake its own freedom-of-navigation operations, but said the United States would continue with the practice.

"The U.S. fought its first war following our independence to ensure freedom of navigation," said Harris. "This is an enduring principle and one of the reasons our forces stand ready to fight tonight."

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-southchinasea-usa-idUKKBN1430CL


----------



## TaiShang

*China should seize opportunity to reshape South China Sea order *
By Liu Zhun Global Times Published: 2016/12/13


After a series of visits by leaders of ASEAN states to China, China and ASEAN have found common agreement to *prioritize economic cooperation and move forward.* A golden opportunity has emerged: It is high time for China and its rival claimants in ASEAN to make major progress in the South China Sea disputes.

*It's reported that officials and scholars from countries related to the South China Sea issue have met recently to discuss trust-building mechanisms, including nailing down the Code of Conduct, reshaping South China Sea order and the feasibility of joint cooperation on areas including anti-terror, climate change and protecting biodiversity.*

US President-elect Trump's aggressive posturing against China has generated a lot of uncertainties in many respects, South China Sea disputes included, which have just quieted down after the tricky and stormy international arbitration process in July. 

Joint efforts from China and the Philippines have brought the derailed Sino-Philippine relationship back on track, *which has foiled other claimants' attempt to complicate the situation and prompted them to shelve disagreements with China.* 

Stability and cooperation in the South China Sea can be achieved without interference from external countries. This job had better be done before Trump could make choppier waves in the region.

Trump laying a finger on China's core interests in such a brazen manner is against all diplomatic protocol. His diplomatic debut signals a bad omen for his foreign policy. So far, there have been no signs of boundaries he would stick to. His agenda might not exclude reshuffling the US' long-established arrangements and reshaping the international system. *ASEAN countries should be anxious about their future - will the US still be accountable for their security? Can they maintain the balance between China and the US and benefit from it if the two major powers engage in intense competition?*

Although the political rookie might make quite a few troubles for Sino-US ties, *China could see it as a chance to show the world what a responsible major power should be. China's consistency with its promises, good intent to cooperate for reciprocity, and commitment to peace and regional stability will be much favored by other countries. *

Many people might be expecting China to take tit-for-tat countermeasures against the US. However,* China won't be as childish as trading insults or provocative actions just to get the upper hand in international discourse.* Beijing will take the opportunity to* win over Washington's agents on China's periphery, giving them a better alternative.* This will give China a peaceful and stable environment for development, and its neighboring countries a free ride to benefit from its growth. Addressing the South China Sea disputes could be the first step.

***
_
The more the US is sidelined from the SCS strategic sphere, the more deeply peace prevails. In this sense, the new US regime bravado and angry Twitter posturing is a strategic opportunity for China to emerge as a responsible and logical power.

_

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## 艹艹艹

*Images show 'significant' Chinese weapons systems in South China Sea*

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## samsara

*Flying along the normal airspace of the nine-dash-line in the South China Sea*





_Image tweeted by @OedoSoldier_

"_As usual, China's military aircraft will execute normal flight missions in the South China Sea's correlated airspace,_" the spokesperson of the Chinese Foreign Ministry, Geng Shuang, said on Tuesday (13 Dec) the Chinese Air Force bomber and fighters flew along the airspace of the nine-dash-line in the South China Sea on the 8th of this month.

http://www.fmprc.gov.cn/web/fyrbt_673021/t1423773.shtml

Reactions: Like Like:

7


----------



## F-22Raptor

A Chinese Navy ship stole an American oceanographic underwater drone in the South China Sea approximately 40 miles west of the Philippines and about 150 miles from Scarborough Shoal, an area contested by the Chinese and the Philippines, two U.S. defense officials told Fox News.

The incident occurred around noon Thursday local time. The Chinese ship had been shadowing the American ship, USNS Bowditch for days.

The research ship was owned by the U.S. Navy but operated by Military Sealift Command, with a crew of contracted civilian mariners and scientists. 

The Chinese have been regularly shadowing U.S. Navy vessels in the South China Sea for months, Fox News was told. 

According to the USNS Bowditch ship's website, the ship is used to "support worldwide oceanography programs, including performing acoustical, biological, physical and geophysical surveys." Fox News was told the underwater drone was used to map the sea floor and other oceanographic data. 

The drone was worth roughly $150,000 dollars. After the Chinese vessel plucked the drone out of the water, the American research ship attempted to call the Chinese ship over bridge-to-bridge radio, but to no avail.

The State Department launched a formal protest known as a demarche by the U.S. Ambassador and delivered to the Chinese government today, Fox News was told.

There was no immediate comment from the State Dept when Fox News reached out for comment.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/12/16/china-steals-us-underwater-drone-in-south-china-sea.html

Really China? So now your stealing drones conducting legitimate scientific research in international waters? Pathetic...

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## SirHatesALot

LMAO


----------



## Beast

F-22Raptor said:


> A Chinese Navy ship stole an American oceanographic underwater drone in the South China Sea approximately 40 miles west of the Philippines and about 150 miles from Scarborough Shoal, an area contested by the Chinese and the Philippines, two U.S. defense officials told Fox News.
> 
> The incident occurred around noon Thursday local time. The Chinese ship had been shadowing the American ship, USNS Bowditch for days.
> 
> The research ship was owned by the U.S. Navy but operated by Military Sealift Command, with a crew of contracted civilian mariners and scientists.
> 
> The Chinese have been regularly shadowing U.S. Navy vessels in the South China Sea for months, Fox News was told.
> 
> According to the USNS Bowditch ship's website, the ship is used to "support worldwide oceanography programs, including performing acoustical, biological, physical and geophysical surveys." Fox News was told the underwater drone was used to map the sea floor and other oceanographic data.
> 
> The drone was worth roughly $150,000 dollars. After the Chinese vessel plucked the drone out of the water, the American research ship attempted to call the Chinese ship over bridge-to-bridge radio, but to no avail.
> 
> The State Department launched a formal protest known as a demarche by the U.S. Ambassador and delivered to the Chinese government today, Fox News was told.
> 
> There was no immediate comment from the State Dept when Fox News reached out for comment.
> 
> http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/12/16/china-steals-us-underwater-drone-in-south-china-sea.html
> 
> Really China? So now your stealing drones conducting legitimate scientific research in international waters? Pathetic...



First, its Chinese territories water. Just like how your RQ-170 flies into Iran airspace and get pwned by Iranian..

Foxnews? Biased and piece of propaganda news for spreading American nonsense. It is called confiscated for intrusion.

Reactions: Like Like:
24


----------



## T-Rex

*



*





FILE PHOTO: A Chinese navy frigate © Martin Petty / Reuters

A US Defense official said a Chinese Navy warship seized an underwater drone deployed by an American oceanographic vessel in international waters, Reuters reported.
The mission of the survey ship, USS Bowditch, had been sampling and data collection of surface, midwater and ocean floor measurements.




US ‘ready to confront’ Beijing over South China Sea, as satellite photos show ‘militarization’ 

The USS Bowditch was sailing about 100 miles off the port at Subic Bay when the incident happened. The survey ship had stopped to pick up two underwater drones when a Chinese naval ship that had been shadowing the Bowditch put a small boat into the water. The small boast came up alongside and the Chinese crew took one of the drones.

The United States is calling for the return of the drone, which was seized in the South China Sea on Thursday, according to Reuters.
A US survey ship was about to retrieve the drone before it was captured.

The US received no answer from the Chinese on the radio when it said the drones American property, according to US defense officials.

US oceanographic research vessels are often followed by the Chinese on the assumption they are spying.

The Pentagon has not commented officially on the incident.

https://www.rt.com/usa/370559-china-us-drone-sea/

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## graphican

@op,

China woulds carry on this research in American and Indian waters now. have faith, they love research a little bit more than you credit them for.


----------



## F-22Raptor

Beast said:


> First, its Chinese territories water. Just like how your RQ-170 flies into Iran airspace and get pwned by Iranian..
> 
> Foxnews? Biased and piece of propaganda news for spreading American nonsense. It is called confiscated for intrusion.



Please....the reality is China stole an oceanographic drone gathering scientific data in international waters. That makes you thieves. No wonder your neighbors have no trust in you.

The US will continue to conduct hundreds of missions per year in the SCS. This won't deter us.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BuddhaPalm

PLA is ready for war! What happened to Yankee shupa powa? As soon as they saw our anti-ship missiles they retreated just like 1950!  You remember when we spanked you until your farm boys wet themselves whenever they hear Chinese gongs!

Reactions: Like Like:
12


----------



## Khanate

Grab your popcorn!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## beijingwalker

US came all the way across the oceans to the Chinese territorial waters to espionage and China seized their equipment, and they cowardly claimed we stole their belongings. A thief claims they lost something after sneaked into other people's home.

Reactions: Like Like:
28


----------



## F-22Raptor

A U.S. Navy bouancy glider similar to one seized by Chinese forces.


A U.S. Navy unmanned bouancy glider was take by Chinese forces in international waters earlier this week, two defense officials confirmed to USNI News on Friday.

The glider was operating with U.S. Military Sealift Command ship USNS _Bowditch_ (T-AGS-62) about 50 miles off of Subic Bay in the Philippines when a People’s Liberation Army Navy ship took the glider both defense officals said.

“A Chinese naval ship that had been shadowing the Bowditch put a small boat into the water. That small boat came up alongside and the Chinese crew took one of the drones,” CNN reported on Friday.







The gliders, far from the Navy’s most sophisticated unmanned vehicles, are used by the service as oceanagraphic survey tools. The gliders largely use unclassified means to collect data for the Navy’s charts and ocean models. The service deploys the systems for months at a time and they transmit data back to the Navy.

“While the service has more than a hundred of the gliders that can transmit data back for more than a month at a time, the service has been limited in the platforms it can deploy the gliders from, Oceanographer of the Navy Rear Adm. Tim Gallaudet said in October during an AUVSI conference in Washington, D.C.,” USNI News reported last month.

However, the seizure of the glider is arguably a violation of freedom of navigation norms.

https://news.usni.org/2016/12/16/breaking-chinese-seize-u-s-navy-unmanned-vehicle


----------



## BuddhaPalm

I bet Duterte must be laughing. Look at the Yanks beating their chests every day like a gorilla but when as soon as we surround them with anti-ship missiles they run away with tail between legs 

All talk and no action from Yanks! Who wants to be allies with a coward?

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## beijingwalker

We seized their espionage plane before and held the plane for some days until they apologized, now they came again.

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## Götterdämmerung

That's because the US navy has introduced fluid-gender. Everything is fluid.

Reactions: Like Like:
12


----------



## HAIDER

Technology for free......China has to pay the royalty of stealing technology.....


----------



## beijingwalker

Next time we will seize their aircraft carriers if they come close enough.

Reactions: Like Like:
16


----------



## BuddhaPalm

Our J-20 is deployed and our Type 094G SSBN is on combat patrol. Time for tactical nuclear exchange. PLA is ready for war! Is USN ready to be vaporized?

Reactions: Like Like:
13


----------



## Shotgunner51

HAIDER said:


> Technology for free......China has to pay the royalty of stealing technology.....


How about China charging fees for garbage disposal?

Reactions: Like Like:
13


----------



## xuxu1457

haha,again something about military was captured by fishship occasionally, and not the first time

Reactions: Like Like:
13


----------



## Globenim

More unprofessional behavior by U.S. navy... they can pretend an USNS vessel is not military as much as they want.

An apology from the U.S regime for violating Chinese sovereignty by invading into territorial waters with military assets without permission by China and causing unnecessary trouble is due.

Reactions: Like Like:
19


----------



## beijingwalker



Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Pangu

Haha, nice catch, that's a plentifully harvest in the SCS.

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## j20blackdragon

F-22Raptor said:


> The US will continue to conduct hundreds of missions per year in the SCS. This won't deter us.



Please sail as close to the islands as you like. The closer the better.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Indika

F-22Raptor said:


> Please....the reality is China stole an oceanographic drone gathering scientific data in international waters. That makes you thieves. No wonder your neighbors have no trust in you.
> 
> The US will continue to conduct hundreds of missions per year in the SCS. This won't deter us.


In retaliation why does not US steal chinese ship or sub?


----------



## Hrk19

F-22Raptor said:


> A Chinese Navy ship stole an American oceanographic underwater drone in the South China Sea approximately 40 miles west of the Philippines and about 150 miles from Scarborough Shoal, an area contested by the Chinese and the Philippines, two U.S. defense officials told Fox News.
> 
> The incident occurred around noon Thursday local time. The Chinese ship had been shadowing the American ship, USNS Bowditch for days.
> 
> The research ship was owned by the U.S. Navy but operated by Military Sealift Command, with a crew of contracted civilian mariners and scientists.
> 
> The Chinese have been regularly shadowing U.S. Navy vessels in the South China Sea for months, Fox News was told.
> 
> According to the USNS Bowditch ship's website, the ship is used to "support worldwide oceanography programs, including performing acoustical, biological, physical and geophysical surveys." Fox News was told the underwater drone was used to map the sea floor and other oceanographic data.
> 
> The drone was worth roughly $150,000 dollars. After the Chinese vessel plucked the drone out of the water, the American research ship attempted to call the Chinese ship over bridge-to-bridge radio, but to no avail.
> 
> The State Department launched a formal protest known as a demarche by the U.S. Ambassador and delivered to the Chinese government today, Fox News was told.
> 
> There was no immediate comment from the State Dept when Fox News reached out for comment.
> 
> http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/12/16/china-steals-us-underwater-drone-in-south-china-sea.html
> 
> Really China? So now your stealing drones conducting legitimate scientific research in international waters? Pathetic...


in case you forgot its their ocean
plus the Philippines and them are on good terms now,so you can get lost from there now

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## HAIDER

The drone was being used in sampling and data collection of the surface, midwater and ocean floor measurements at the time. Pictured it a US Bluefin-21 drone 

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ater-drone-South-China-Sea.html#ixzz4T1nB86Mk 
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Basel

F-22Raptor said:


> Please....the reality is China stole an oceanographic drone gathering scientific data in international waters. That makes you thieves. No wonder your neighbors have no trust in you.
> 
> The US will continue to conduct hundreds of missions per year in the SCS. This won't deter us.



US have used this scientific research as cover since Cold War. CIA is very well known for using those tactics.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Devil Soul

*Chinese warship seizes US underwater drone in international waters*
Official says drone deployed by American oceanographic vessel in South China Sea was taken by Chinese navy on Thursday

The Chinese navy has seized an underwater drone in plain sight of the American sailors who had deployed it in international waters, in a seemingly brazen message to the incoming Trump administration.

According to a US defence official, the unmanned glider had come to the surface of the water in the South China Sea and was about to be retrieved by the USNS Bowditch, an oceanographic and surveillance ship, when a Chinese naval vessel that had been shadowing the Bowditch put a small boat in the water.

Chinese sailors in the small boat came alongside the drone and grabbed it despite the radioed protests from the Bowditch that it was US property in international waters. The incident happened about 100 miles north-west of the Philippines’ port of Subic Bay.

The US has issued a formal protest and demanded the return of the glider.

“The UUV [unmanned underwater vehicle] was lawfully conducting a military survey in the waters of the South China Sea,” the official said. “It’s a sovereign immune vessel, clearly marked in English not to be removed from the water – that it was US property.”

The seizure of the drone is also a reflection of the struggle occurring under the surface of the South China Sea. As China develops a strategic submarine fleet, with the potential to carry nuclear missiles out into the Pacific Ocean, the US has built up a monitoring network designed to spot Chinese submarines as they leave their bases. Drones are key to the network, and there is a race under way between major naval powers to develop drones that can work together in swarms and “see” long distances through the water. Underwater gliders are drones that can stay underwater on the lookout for submarines for long periods of time.

“This looks like signalling from the Chinese in response to Trump’s Taiwan call,” said Bonnie Glaser, the director of the China Power Project at the Centre for Strategic and International Studies. “It is hard to believe this is the action of an independent commander. The Chinese now have much better control over the military, particularly the navy. It is in China’s interest to send signals before Trump is inaugurated, so that he gets the message and be more restrained once he is office.”

Sebastian Brixey-Williams of the British American Security Information Council said: “Nuclear states are increasing anxious about unmanned underwater vehicles (UUVs, or underwater drones) autonomously tracking their nuclear ballistic missile submarines (SSBNs), making them vulnerable to antisubmarine warfare. This is an issue for China in particular, whose SSBN fleet is small and noisy. Though the USNS Bowditch is an oceanographic ship and may sound harmless, the kinds of data it is collecting will make Chinese submarines easier to find over time.

“China therefore accomplishes a number of things by seizing a US underwater drone,” Brixley-Williams said. “It allows Chinese scientists to better understand the US’s offensive technical capabilities in this area, and potentially allows them to reverse-engineer them, bringing gains in both the commercial and military spheres.”

Glaser pointed out that the Chinese have frequently tested the US when there is a new administration. In the early months of the George W Bush administration, in 2001, the Bowditch was involved in a close encounter with a Chinese frigate which turned on its gun control radar and forced it to retreat. A week later there was a collision between a US spy plane and Chinese warplane off China’s Hainan island.

At about the same point in the early Obama administration, in March 2009, a number of Chinese navy ships harassed another US oceanographic vessel, the USNS Impeccable, coming as close as 50ft away, trying to snag its acoustic equipment with hooks, waving flags and demanding the Impeccable leave the area.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/16/china-seizes-us-underwater-drone-south-china-sea

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## maximuswarrior

Nicely done by China. Don't return it now. That should send a strong message. That should also serve as a warning to Trump.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## JOEY TRIBIANI

Why dont Chinese start doing research near hawaii?

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## JOEY TRIBIANI

F-22Raptor said:


> Please....the reality is China stole an oceanographic drone gathering scientific data in international waters. That makes you thieves. No wonder your neighbors have no trust in you.
> 
> The US will continue to conduct hundreds of missions per year in the SCS. This won't deter us.



Lolz ok


----------



## Hamartia Antidote

Wow sounds like an extreme act of desperation...rather low for China. Luckily the data is unclassified.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Hindustani78

The incident, the first of its kind in recent memory, took place on Dec. 15 northwest of Subic Bay off the Philippines just as the USNS Bowditch, an oceanographic survey ship, was about to retrieve the unmanned, underwater vehicle (UUV), the official said, speaking on condition of anonymity.

“The UUV was lawfully conducting a military survey in the waters of the South China Sea,” the official said.

“It's a sovereign immune vessel, clearly marked in English not to be removed from the water - that it was U.S. property.”

The US asked China to “immediately” return its unmanned naval probe in international waters in the South China Sea which it alleged has been “unlawfully” seized by them. “Using appropriate government-to-government channels, the Department of Defense has called upon China to immediately return an unmanned underwater vehicle (UUV) that China unlawfully seized on December 15 in the South China Sea while it was being recovered by a US Navy oceanographic survey ship,” Pentagon Press Secretary Peter Cook said.

The Chinese seizure will add to concerns about China's growing military presence and aggressive posture in the disputed South China Sea, including its militarisation of maritime outposts.

A U.S. think tank reported this week that new satellite imagery indicated that China has installed weapons, including anti-aircraft and anti-missile systems, on all seven artificial islands it has built in the South China Sea.

The seized underwater drone was part of an unclassified program to collect oceanographic data, including salinity,temperature and clarity of the water, the official added.

Such data can help inform U.S. military sonar data, since sound is affected by such factors.

The United States issued the formal demarche, as such protests are known, through diplomatic channels and included a demand that China immediately return the underwater drone.

The Chinese have acknowledged the demarche but not responded to it, the official added.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ashok321

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/809791169702096896


----------



## haviZsultan

Good work China. Enough time to show some assertiveness and combat the foremost tyrant of the world today. When America crumbles we will celebrate.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Hindustani78

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/586999/china-seizes-us-naval-probe.html

The underwater probe was taken around 50 nautical miles (90 kilometers) northwest off Subic Bay in the Philippines on Thursday afternoon in a non-violent incident, Pentagon spokesman Navy Captain Jeff Davis said.

The event unfolded as the civilian-crewed USNS Bowditch was retrieving a pair of "naval gliders" that routinely collect information on water temperatures, salinity and sea clarity.

A Chinese Dalang-III class submarine rescue ship then stopped within 500 yards (meters) of the Bowditch and snatched one of the probes. The Americans safely hoisted the other one back onto their ship.

Davis said he could not recall another time when something like this has happened, and the Pentagon issued a statement calling on Beijing to "immediately" return the probe that it had "unlawfully seized."

The US personnel "were asking over bridge-to-bridge radio to please leave it there," Davis said.

Other than a brief acknowledgment that it had received the message, the Chinese ship did not respond.

"The only thing they said after they were sailing off into the distance was: 'We are returning to normal operations,'" Davis said.

Washington has issued a formal request through diplomatic channels to ask for the probe back. "It is ours. It is clearly marked as ours. We would like it back, and we would like this not to happen again," Davis said.

Pentagon press secretary Peter Cook said China had acted unlawfully. "The UUV (unmanned underwater vehicle) is a sovereign immune vessel of the United States. We call upon China to return our UUV immediately, and to comply with all of its obligations under international law," Cook said in a statement.

Davis said the seized vessel is off-the-shelf technology that is commercially available for about $150,000. Data it gathers are unclassified and can be used to help submarines navigate and determine sonar ranges in murky waters.

The incident comes amid rising tensions in the South China Sea, where China has moved to fortify its claims to the region by building out tiny reefs and islets into much larger artificial islands.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## patero

BuddhaPalm said:


> Our J-20 is deployed and our Type 094G SSBN is on combat patrol. Time for tactical nuclear exchange. PLA is ready for war! Is USN ready to be vaporized?



This might seem like a strange comment to make on a military forum, but would it not be better to want a peaceful resolution rather than desire mass death and destruction? 

Did not the Buddha say "In separateness lies the world’s greatest misery; in compassion lies the world’s true strength".

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Akasa

The US should respond with sanctions on Chinese businesses or impose higher tariffs. They can't let anybody get away with theft of US property in international waters.


----------



## maximuswarrior

SinoSoldier said:


> The US should respond with sanctions on Chinese businesses or impose higher tariffs. They can't let anybody get away with theft of US property in international waters.



We'll see if the US can do that.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## phancong

Another way for China to learn the code transmitter and it signal from this captured UVS. China have UVS treasure on it hand. Know yourself and know your enemy that how you win in any war.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Sugarcane

Devil Soul said:


> Chinese sailors in the small boat came alongside the drone and grabbed it despite the radioed protests from the Bowditch that it was US property in international waters.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## phancong

maximuswarrior said:


> We'll see if the US can do that.


US can't do jack about this incident.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Akasa

maximuswarrior said:


> We'll see if the US can do that.



With Obama in office? Expect another big red line for everybody to trample.


----------



## 21stCentury

Stole? If anything, it's confiscating

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## qwerrty

> "Captain Davis says a *civilian US Navy ship*"
> US Navy "Underwater Drone" collecting "*unclassified data*"


?!

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Hindustani78

Navy file photo of the T-AGS 60 Class Oceanographic Survey Ship, USNS Bowditch. US Navy 






The drone was part of an unclassified program to collect oceanographic data including salinity, temperature and clarity of the water, the U.S. official added. The data can help inform U.S. military sonar data since such factors affect sound.

The USNS Bowditch, a U.S. Navy ship crewed by civilians that carries out oceanographic work, had already retrieved one of two of its drones, known as ocean gliders, when a Chinese Dalang 3 class vessel took the second one.

Officials said the Bowditch was only 500 meters (yards) from the underwater drone and, observing the Chinese intercede, used bridge-to-bridge communications to demand the drone be returned.

The Chinese ship acknowledged the communication but did not respond to the Bowditch's demands, Davis said.

"The only thing they said after they were sailing off into the distance was: "we are returning to normal operations," Davis said.

The United States issued the formal demarche, as such protests are known, through diplomatic channels and included a demand that China immediately return the drone. The Chinese acknowledged it but have not responded, officials said.

(Reporting by Phil Stewart; Editing by Chizu Nomiyama and James Dalgleish)

the _Bowditch_ is an official U.S. Navy ship, it’s not a warship. The Navy lists the _Bowditch_ as a _Pathfinder_-class survey ship, used primarily to “support worldwide oceanography programs, including performing acoustical, biological, physical and geophysical surveys,” according to the Military Sealift Command’s website. Essentially, the _Bowditch_ makes maps. Its crew are entirely civilians as well — while the data it collects can be used for both scientific and military purposes, it’s not a combat vessel.

The seized drone is an “ocean glider,” according to the military. It’s a small, torpedo-shaped craft that glides beneath the waves collects various data. The drones are often used for weather research but have a variety of uses.






A Rutgers university ocean glider probably similar to the one siezed.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Jlaw

F-22Raptor said:


> Please....the reality is China stole an oceanographic drone gathering scientific data in international waters. That makes you thieves. No wonder your neighbors have no trust in you.
> 
> The US will continue to conduct hundreds of missions per year in the SCS. This won't deter us.


oh please wig. scientific research operated by military ? try harder.

Reactions: Like Like:
12


----------



## terranMarine

Ouchhhhhhhh, world's supa powa is crying China stole her underwater drone? It's called under our possession now through LEGAL act. The Iranians confiscated the Sentinel when it entered their airspace uninvited, now that a sea drone entered our territory uninvited we just simply took it in what's wrong with that? 

Can anybody teach @F-22Raptor the definition of stealing - thief / confiscating - seized ?  

We should dismantle, examine, reverse engineer if it's worthy, mail the dismantled parts back and charge the US for transportation fee.

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## Desertfalcon

That is good. It informs the world that when my country is accused of violating international law by those that oppose us, that it is inevitably by countries that have proven they really don't care about such law. It will give the next US president a freer hand when he needs to violate their sovereignty. They will have no grounds to complain when it happens.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Jlaw

qwerrty said:


> ?!


exactly. it's a civilian military ship with civilian weapons operates by US navy! 
gotta give it to Americans. their propaganda is tricking a lot of Americans. 



terranMarine said:


> Ouchhhhhhhh, world's supa powa is crying China stole her underwater drone? It's called under our possession now through LEGAL act. The Iranians confiscated the Sentinel when it entered their airspace uninvited, now that a sea drone entered our territory uninvited we just simply took it in what's wrong with that?
> 
> Can anybody teach @F-22Raptor the definition of stealing - thief / confiscating - seized ?
> 
> We should dismantle, examine, reverse engineer if it's worthy, mail the dismantled parts back and charge the US for transportation fee.


the data will be examined. China does not need to return it. U.S. was operating in Chinese territory. U.S. thief got caught red handed.

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## terranMarine

Jlaw said:


> the data will be examined. China does not need to return it. U.S. was operating in Chinese territory. U.S. thief got caught red handed.



It's not state of the art tech so no need to reverse engineer it, just check out what the Yankees have been recording and incinerate it

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## terranMarine

It came, we saw, we grabbed it

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## Zsari

F-22Raptor said:


> Please....the reality is China stole an oceanographic drone gathering scientific data in international waters. That makes you thieves. No wonder your neighbors have no trust in you.
> 
> The US will continue to conduct hundreds of missions per year in the SCS. This won't deter us.



You know according to UNCLOS article 246, you can't conduct "scientific research" in another country's EEZ without the consent of the state even though its considered to be international water. Note only the dark blue area are defined as High Sea where one can freely conduct "scientific research".

Reactions: Like Like:
13


----------



## Mo12

Zsari said:


> You know you can't conduct "scientific research" in another country's EEZ without the consent of the state even though its considered to be international water. Note only the dark blue area are defined as High Sea where one can freely conduct "scientific research".



India EEZ doesnt go that far north, this map doesnt seem true to me.

If USA wants to go to war, sooner rather than later would be the best hope because China is closing the military gap every single year.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Jlaw

terranMarine said:


> It's not state of the art tech so no need to reverse engineer it, just check out what the Yankees have been recording and incinerate it


record what they say and if it benefit china or make yankee look like hypocrites in international stage or if it's a big embarrassment to them China can release the recording. we can all have a good laugh at yankees

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Akasa

Beast said:


> First, its Chinese territories water. Just like how your RQ-170 flies into Iran airspace and get pwned by Iranian..
> 
> Foxnews? Biased and piece of propaganda news for spreading American nonsense. It is called confiscated for intrusion.



Uh, no. The SCS is *not* entirely under Chinese juridiction; China's territorial waters (as per UNCLOS conventions) extends to only 22 km from its shorelines.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## slng

Please get rid of UNCLOS. The one who file it even don't care about it anymore.

Beside US themselves ignore UNCLOS jurisdiction when it comes to sovereignty. Your joker should just stay at your own backyard.

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Desertfalcon

The good thing is that it clears the way for the next US president to violate Chinese sovereignty at will. When the Chinese complain, we will remind them they it is they, who have instructed us, that they no longer have any interest in adhering to such legal constraints. It's better for everyone to sweep away the hypocrisy.


----------



## IblinI

Desertfalcon said:


> That is good. It informs the world that when my country is accused of violating international law by those that oppose us, that it is inevitably by countries that have proven they really don't care about such law. It will give the next US president a freer hand when he needs to violate their sovereignty. They will have no grounds to complain when it happens.


"International law",says by an american.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Götterdämmerung

Desertfalcon said:


> The good thing is that it clears the way for the next US president to violate Chinese sovereignty at will. When the Chinese complain, we will remind them they it is they, who have instructed us, that they no longer have any interest in adhering to such legal constraints. It's better for everyone to sweep away the hypocrisy.



Your post doesn't make any sense at all.

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## Desertfalcon

YuChen said:


> "International law",says by an american.


 
I guess you missed that I am saying exactly the opposite of your little comment. I could care less about international law. This will help encourage that view with the American people. It will help them to realize what a joke it is and that our potential opponents could actually, care less about it.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Desertfalcon

Götterdämmerung said:


> Your post doesn't make any sense at all.



Oh? Seems pretty clear to me. You obviously can write English so what part did you not understand?


----------



## 52051

Desertfalcon said:


> I guess you missed that I am saying exactly the opposite of your little comment. I could care less about international law. This will help encourage that view with the American people. It will help them to realize what a joke it is and that our potential opponents could actually, care less about it.



You talk like as if the average americans care about international law to begin with through...

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Desertfalcon

52051 said:


> You talk like as if the average americans care about international law to begin with through...


Unfortunately, many of them still do. Things like this though, certainly help the cause!


----------



## IblinI

Desertfalcon said:


> Unfortunately, many of them still do. Things like this though, certainly help the cause!


Jungle time?

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## 52051

Desertfalcon said:


> Unfortunately, many of them still do. Things like this though, certainly help the cause!



I am so scared of the naive-ness of the americans then, especially considering the fact how the america become a country in the first place.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Götterdämmerung

Desertfalcon said:


> Oh? Seems pretty clear to me. You obviously can write English so what part did you not understand?



Plenty of people can write unintelligible stuffs, like your previous post.

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## SBUS-CXK

F-22Raptor said:


> A Chinese Navy ship stole an American oceanographic underwater drone in the South China Sea approximately 40 miles west of the Philippines and about 150 miles from Scarborough Shoal, an area contested by the Chinese and the Philippines, two U.S. defense officials told Fox News.
> 
> The incident occurred around noon Thursday local time. The Chinese ship had been shadowing the American ship, USNS Bowditch for days.
> 
> The research ship was owned by the U.S. Navy but operated by Military Sealift Command, with a crew of contracted civilian mariners and scientists.
> 
> The Chinese have been regularly shadowing U.S. Navy vessels in the South China Sea for months, Fox News was told.
> 
> According to the USNS Bowditch ship's website, the ship is used to "support worldwide oceanography programs, including performing acoustical, biological, physical and geophysical surveys." Fox News was told the underwater drone was used to map the sea floor and other oceanographic data.
> 
> The drone was worth roughly $150,000 dollars. After the Chinese vessel plucked the drone out of the water, the American research ship attempted to call the Chinese ship over bridge-to-bridge radio, but to no avail.
> 
> The State Department launched a formal protest known as a demarche by the U.S. Ambassador and delivered to the Chinese government today, Fox News was told.
> 
> There was no immediate comment from the State Dept when Fox News reached out for comment.
> 
> http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/12/16/china-steals-us-underwater-drone-in-south-china-sea.html
> 
> Really China? So now your stealing drones conducting legitimate scientific research in international waters? Pathetic...


I'm curious。
1, Why US uav in China - PH disputed waters? US said in the vicinity?
2, what is the role of this UAV? Investigation? Intelligence gathering?
3, Why is this happening in China and Philippines when reconciliation?
4,US use this way to interrupt China and PH reconciliation between?
5, If China's CH-5 uav appeared on international waters near the west coast of the United States? what would US do？

Oh US need to let the South China Sea continue to turmoil, help US to the Asia Pacific to transfer troops to provide the excuse, do you think? @F-22Raptor @Desertfalcon @maximuswarrior @BuddhaPalm @BuddhaPalm @beijingwalker

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zhu Rong Zheng Yang

*@SinoSoldier Revealed*



SinoSoldier said:


> The US should respond with sanctions on Chinese businesses or impose higher tariffs. They can't let anybody get away with theft of US property in international waters.



I have been wondering about your origin for a *while watching you sabotaged and stabbed PRC in the back with your frequently Derogatory and Snide comments on PRC military hardware in PDF and in that Fake and Pretentious* ( Sino Defense Forum ).










AHA, ... ...
Then, suddenly you revealed your origin by changing your avatar with a Hindustan LCA Tejas.
IMO, the < SINO > word on your name is misleading.
Why do you hide your identity behind the word < SINO > and using 2 Canadian Flags ??



===

This kind of PLA proactive action is long overdue.
It is time to remind Hegemonic Evil americese and Low Lifer Trump and his supporting slaves that not all Chinese are softies and infected by the weak knees disease.

I hope those weak Chinese slaves in MOFA ( Ministry of Foreign Affairs ) do not sabotage and torpedo the PLAN proactive actions to harass the Hegemonic Evil americese.

All those americese who hate PRC shall be grateful that too many part of PRC are still being controlled by those weak Chinese slaves who are bending over backward to appease and trying very hard to please the Hegemonic Evil usa.



1*) I hope Low Lifer trump try much harder to harass CHINA, thus we can remove all those weak Chinese slaves in MOFA.

2*) And, PRC will have much more proactive policy to arm IRAN and boost RUSSIA strength, and much more proactive economic policy to reward the Pro PRC nations, such as CAMBODIA, BELARUS, SERBIA.

3*) Stop all Chinese businesses in investing in Hegemonic Evil usa and its supporting slave nations, and channel and redirect their investments to RUSSIA, IRAN, CAMBODIA, LAOS, BELARUS, SERBIA, and NORTH KOREA.

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## Desertfalcon

52051 said:


> I am so scared of the naive-ness of the americans then, especially considering the fact how the america become a country in the first place.


Well, if they are, they are no different than the Chinese posters I encounter here who are utterly oblivious to the nightmare that was Chinese communism up until the reforms of Deng. I don't know how many Chinese PDF posters I've run into who think the tens of millions murdered by their government is fiction, but there you have it; ignorance is bliss, as they say.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Desertfalcon

Götterdämmerung said:


> Plenty of people can write unintelligible stuffs, like your previous post.



That fact that you still won't answer what I asked, tells me how bogus your initial objection was. You understood it perfectly...you just didn't like it.


----------



## Desertfalcon

BuddhaPalm said:


> USA military-politico-industrial complex is a parasite upon humanity. Gouging it out will serve the greater good even if it means a nuclear attack on USA. The only question is how to make it quick and clean.


I salute you for your honesty, sir.



This is exactly why I posted what I did in this thread.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Penguin

1. In international waters claimed by China as EEZ
2. There is no UAV but rather a ROV/UUV. Bowditch serves as an _oceanographic _sampling and data collection of surface, mid-water and ocean floor parameters. Surveys of this nature are required to confirm bottom features and identify navigational hazards i.e. to verify waters are safe for other ships, esp. close to shore. The ship's success lies in the multi-beam contour mapping system, and wide-angle side-scan sonar systems, which continuously collect data over a broad strip of ocean floor. Bowditch also employs two Hydrographic Survey Launches, small boats that use single and multi-beam echo-sounders and streamed side-scan sonar systems to collect data in very shallow regions. http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=77698
3. Good question. 
4. How?
5. Nothing much, just inspect it. It would be interesting to see an airborne craft like CH-5 UAV appear in international waters (i.e. 'splash'). Or, put differently, in international airspace.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Penguin

qwerrty said:


> ?!








Bowditch is operated by the Military Sealift Command for the Naval Oceanographic Office, a component of the Naval Meteorology and Oceanography Command headquartered at the Stennis Space Center in Mississippi. Bowditch is one of six Pathfinder-class ships with an all-civilian crew of professional mariners and scientific support personnel.

An unarmed, civilian manned oceanography ship.



slng said:


> Please get rid of UNCLOS. The one who file it even don't care about it anymore.
> 
> Beside US themselves ignore UNCLOS jurisdiction when it comes to sovereignty. Your joker should just stay at your own backyard.


US is NOT an UNCLOS signatory. China is. You (don't) sign it, you are (not) bound by it.


----------



## patero

BuddhaPalm said:


> USA are cowards. You will accept New York vaporization and sue for peace. You know it. I know it.
> 
> ...Chairman Xi knows it.




'It is better to conquer yourself than to win a thousand battles. Then the victory is yours. It cannot be taken from you.
'


----------



## Penguin

Zsari said:


> You know according to UNCLOS article 246, you can't conduct "scientific research" in another country's EEZ without the consent of the state even though its considered to be international water. Note only the dark blue area are defined as High Sea where one can freely conduct "scientific research".


If the Phillippines don't object, why can't the Americans? It is the Chinese claiming virtually the entire SCS as their EEZ, well beyond anything normally considered (i.e. 200 nmi from shore)


----------



## somsak

Perhaps the most value things from this underwater drone is DATA and Algorithm.
1. Data: What kind of information this device is gathering.
2. Algorithm: Encoding/encription. Remember Enigma Machine got from Germany's U boat WW2?
Ofcause there are many encoding algorithm being used, but still one type of encoding encryption has lost.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Penguin

Basel said:


> US have used this scientific research as cover since Cold War. CIA is very well known for using those tactics.


BLah blah blah. All navies of any importance have oceanography ships.


----------



## SBUS-CXK

somsak said:


> Perhaps the most value things from this underwater drone is DATA and Algorithm.
> 1. Data: What kind of information this device is gathering.
> 2. Algorithm: Encoding/encription. Remember Enigma Machine got from Germany's U boat WW2?
> Ofcause there are many encoding algorithm being used, but still one type of encoding encryption has lost.


It almost reminds me of the Gulf of Tonkin incident.
@Desertfalcon Do you know Gulf of Tonkin incident?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Desertfalcon

Two said:


> It almost reminds me of the Gulf of Tonkin incident.
> @Desertfalcon Do you know Gulf of Tonkin incident?


Of course. Only this time, China is the aggressor and is making up whatever justification they need.


----------



## Place Of Space

Penguin said:


> If the Phillippines don't object, why can't the Americans? It is the Chinese claiming virtually the entire SCS as their EEZ, well beyond anything normally considered (i.e. 200 nmi from shore)



When your bs can be over, it's not China claiming the whole SCS territory, it's Chinese territory after wwii.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## SBUS-CXK

Desertfalcon said:


> Of course. Only this time, China is the aggressor and is making up whatever justification they need.


Haha, let me think.
Who invaded Vietnam for 13 years?
Who colonized Philippines for 50 years?
Who invaded Panama?
Who invaded Grenada?
Who first supported al Qaeda and Taliban?
Who is making the world turmoil?
Perhaps the answer is not important... American hegemony in the world is the most important.

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## Beast

Desertfalcon said:


> Of course. Only this time, China is the aggressor and is making up whatever justification they need.


Yes yes, China is the aggressor. US is the most peace loving nation in the world. The muslim and middle eastern shall thank US for what been doing in the last 20 years for that region.

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## Place Of Space

Desertfalcon said:


> Of course. Only this time, China is the aggressor and is making up whatever justification they need.



I guess USA really lack leverage in the SCS issue, so use this excues. Come on, that drone is just a small piece of toy.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## alwaysfair

Pretty embarrasing for the americans . Its obviously for military use , probably mapping the ocean floor for sub use.
If its taken in international waters, dont know what face saving can they come up with.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Beast

Two said:


> Haha, let me think.
> Who invaded Vietnam for 13 years?
> Who colonized Philippines for 50 years?
> Who invaded Panama?
> Who invaded Grenada?
> Who first supported al Qaeda and Taliban?
> Who is making the world turmoil?
> Perhaps the answer is not important... American hegemony in the world is the most important.


Americans are arrogant and ignorant. Remember that!

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Penguin

F-22Raptor said:


> A Chinese Navy ship stole an American oceanographic underwater drone in the South China Sea approximately* 40 miles west of the Philippines* and about *150 miles from Scarborough Shoal*, an area contested by the Chinese and the Philippines, two U.S. defense officials told Fox News.


40 miles west of the Philippines is international waters, only 12.3 mi beyond Philippines contiguous zone and 26.2mi beyond its territorial waters. Any claim of this being Chinese EEZ is silly: 200nmi from some point in Scarborough Shoal places you on land in the Philippines.


----------



## Akasa

Zhu Rong Zheng Yang said:


> *@SinoSoldier Revealed*
> 
> 
> 
> I have been wondering about your origin for a *while watching you sabotaged and stabbed PRC in the back with your frequently Derogatory and Snide comments on PRC military hardware in PDF and in that Fake and Pretentious* ( Sino Defense Forum ).
> 
> 
> View attachment 360947
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AHA, ... ...
> Then, suddenly you revealed your origin by changing your avatar with a Hindustan LCA Tejas.
> IMO, the < SINO > word on your name is misleading.
> Why do you hide your identity behind the word < SINO > and using 2 Canadian Flags ??
> 
> 
> 
> ===
> 
> This kind of PLA proactive action is long overdue.
> It is time to remind Hegemonic Evil americese and Low Lifer Trump and his supporting slaves that not all Chinese are softies and infected by the weak knees disease.
> 
> I hope those weak Chinese slaves in MOFA ( Ministry of Foreign Affairs ) do not sabotage and torpedo the PLAN proactive actions to harass the Hegemonic Evil americese.
> 
> All those americese who hate PRC shall be grateful that too many part of PRC are still being controlled by those weak Chinese slaves who are bending over backward to appease and trying very hard to please the Hegemonic Evil usa.
> 
> 
> 
> 1*) I hope Low Lifer trump try much harder to harass CHINA, thus we can remove all those weak Chinese slaves in MOFA.
> 
> 2*) And, PRC will have much more proactive policy to arm IRAN and boost RUSSIA strength, and much more proactive economic policy to reward the Pro PRC nations, such as CAMBODIA, BELARUS, SERBIA.
> 
> 3*) Stop all Chinese businesses in investing in Hegemonic Evil usa and its supporting slave nations, and channel and redirect their investments to RUSSIA, IRAN, CAMBODIA, LAOS, BELARUS, SERBIA, and NORTH KOREA.



To be completely square with you, I changed my avatar just so I could enjoy seeing you folks lose your cool over your rather peculiar presumptions of me. 

I wasn't let down.


----------



## Desertfalcon

Two said:


> Haha, let me think.
> Who invaded Vietnam for 13 years?
> Who colonized Philippines for 50 years?
> Who invaded Panama?
> Who invaded Grenada?
> Who first supported al Qaeda and Taliban?
> Who is making the world turmoil?
> Perhaps the answer is not important... American hegemony in the world is the most important.


And yet, this time, China is the aggressor.


----------



## SBUS-CXK

alwaysfair said:


> Pretty embarrasing for the americans . Its obviously for military use , probably mapping the ocean floor for sub use.
> If its taken in international waters, dont know what face saving can they come up with.


When China and PH reconciliation, the United States unhappy.
So US appeared.
And then there's this.
If you have to find an example.
Perhaps - Gulf of Tonkin incident

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_incident

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Penguin

BuddhaPalm said:


> I bet Duterte must be laughing. Look at the Yanks beating their chests every day like a gorilla but when as soon as we surround them with anti-ship missiles they run away with tail between legs
> 
> All talk and no action from Yanks! Who wants to be allies with a coward?


I see mostly Chinese here beating their chest .... is snagging an oceanography ROV/UUV all the 'action' China can manage? How insignificant.



Beast said:


> Americans are arrogant and ignorant. Remember that!


And you arent?



Place Of Space said:


> When your bs can be over, it's not China claiming the whole SCS territory, it's Chinese territory after wwii.


UCLOS definition of EEZ is 200nmi. _Territorial _waters never extend beyond 12nmi from baseline. 
China signed and ratified UNCLOS, so it agreed to those definitions.


----------



## SBUS-CXK

Desertfalcon said:


> And yet, this time, China is the aggressor.


Oh....
If I don't remind you, have you forgotten how many countries US invaded?
This time, China and PH have been reconciled.
Even China began to provide weapons to PH.

https://www.rt.com/news/369956-duterte-china-philippines-arms/

So this makes US embarrassed, which allows US unable to maintain military presence in the SCS. So a new "Gulf of Tonkin incident". US need to make China and PH re confrontation... Don't you understand? Lovely baby. Play politics? Any Chinese is better than the president of the United states.

This game, China 3000 years ago to learn.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## friendly_troll96

China be like:

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Beast

Penguin said:


> And you arent?



Did Chinese goes other people backyard and do those sneaky cheap moves and then lost the equipment and then do propangada garbage accusing others of stealing their equipment? No.. So only American is doing that and my assessment is correct.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Desertfalcon

Two said:


> Lovely baby. Play politics? Any Chinese is better than the president of the United states.



 Why do so many Chinese posters on this forum sound just like some old Hollywood movie, Asian tough guy! It cracks me up!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Place Of Space

Penguin said:


> I see mostly Chinese here beating their chest .... is snagging an oceanography ROV/UUV all the 'action' China can manage? How insignificant.
> 
> 
> And you arent?
> 
> 
> UCLOS definition of EEZ is 200nmi. _Territorial _waters never extend beyond 12nmi from baseline.
> China signed and ratified UNCLOS, so it agreed to those definitions.



UNCLOS isn't applicable to this case. This is outcomes of WWII victory.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## SBUS-CXK

Penguin said:


> I see mostly Chinese here beating their chest .... is snagging an oceanography ROV/UUV all the 'action' China can manage? How insignificant.
> 
> 
> And you arent?
> 
> 
> UCLOS definition of EEZ is 200nmi. _Territorial _waters never extend beyond 12nmi from baseline.
> China signed and ratified UNCLOS, so it agreed to those definitions.


Yeah, so these have anything to do with US? Oh, affecting US in SCS the military presence...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Beast

Desertfalcon said:


> Why do so many Chinese posters on this forum sound just like some old Hollywood movie, Asian tough guy! It cracks me up!



Really? US media is the real circus. We are all amuse at the amount of ridiculous article they can conjure up and try to shove it into others.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## BuddhaPalm

Desertfalcon said:


> And yet, this time, China is the aggressor.


Ask Philippines who is the aggressor and they will tell you

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## alwaysfair

Problem is both countries are cut from the same cloth. 
China . Power flows from the barrel of the gun.
USA . My way or the highway.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BuddhaPalm

Penguin said:


> I see mostly Chinese here beating their chest .... is snagging an oceanography ROV/UUV all the 'action' China can manage? How insignificant.


We already spanked them silly in 1950. Let's see how the Yanks react to our merciful light spanking. The nuking of New York is just waiting for Chairman Xi's command. 



Penguin said:


> UCLOS definition of EEZ is 200nmi. _Territorial _waters never extend beyond 12nmi from baseline.
> China signed and ratified UNCLOS, so it agreed to those definitions.


Wrong. China reserved its rights when joining the treaty. Treaty does not affect the fact the South China Sea is Chinese waters.

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## SBUS-CXK

Desertfalcon said:


> Why do so many Chinese posters on this forum sound just like some old Hollywood movie, Asian tough guy! It cracks me up!


Well, as always.
Americans are best at shifting topics.
Now explain.
Why in China and PH reconciliation after. US uav in the SCS?





Do you have any other games besides monitoring the world?

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Makarena

finder keeper

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## samsara

Sometimes when you are playing in somebody else's backyard, your stuff gets jacked.

That's just the way it goes.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## beijingwalker

Desertfalcon said:


> Why do so many Chinese posters on this forum sound just like some old Hollywood movie, Asian tough guy! It cracks me up!


You watched too much of them and that's your problem

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## qwerrty

alwaysfair said:


> Pretty embarrasing for the americans . Its obviously for military use , probably mapping the ocean floor for sub use.
> If its taken in international waters, *dont know what face saving can they come up wit*h.



they already did. they said it's just 150k dollars drone you can buy off-the-shelf. no big deal lol

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## 艹艹艹

*Americans seem very angry.*

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Thəorətic Muslim

phancong said:


> US can't do jack about this incident.



Nope we can't.

I mean the MASSIVE BALLS the Chinese Navy has. Taking a Drone from an unarmed research ship.


----------



## The SC

WASHINGTON—China seized a U.S. Navy underwater drone in the South China Sea and the Pentagon demanded it back, raising a new point of tension between U.S. and Chinese military forces in the disputed waters as relations between the countries enter uncharted territory.

“It’s ours, it was clearly marked, we want it back, and we don’t want this to happen again,” said Capt. Jeff Davis, a Pentagon spokesman.

The incident on Thursday occurred days after President-elect Donald J. Trump raised China’s ire by suggesting his administration could abandon a bedrock agreement on Taiwan’s status that has kept peace in the area for decades. Mr. Trump’s suggestion that the U.S. would maintain its position on Taiwan only if China makes concessions to American interests came after he broke decades of diplomatic protocol by accepting a phone call from Taiwan’s president, hitting one of Beijing’s most sensitive issues.

It also came as a Washington-based think tank reported China had installed antiaircraft weapons and other small arms on all seven of its reclaimed islands in the South China Sea, where China has built artificial islands and laid claim to a vast swath of maritime territory, to the dismay of neighbors and U.S. officials. China’s actions have raised concerns in the U.S. that Beijing is planning to enforce broad and disputed claims over the sea, a hub that sees more than $5 trillion in trade transit its waters annually. China’s Defense Ministry said on its website Thursday that any reef construction was mainly for civil use, and that any military facilities “are mainly for defense and self-defense, which is appropriate and legal.”




ENLARGE
An ocean glider of the general type the Pentagon says the Chinese snatched this week being recovered in October. Photo: cmdr santiago carrizosa/Agence France-Presse/Getty Images
In the latest incident, the U.S. Naval Ship Bowditch, which has a civilian commander, was retrieving two underwater drones about 50 nautical miles northwest of Subic Bay in the Philippines. It was being shadowed by a Chinese ship, a Dalang 3, a typical occurrence when U.S. ships navigate those waters, Navy and defense officials say.

The USNS Bowditch retrieved the first drone, but while it prepared to retrieve the second one, the Chinese ship put a smaller boat in the water and snatched it away, according to U.S. defense officials. The U.S. ship established “bridge-to-bridge” communications with the Chinese vessel, about 500 yards away, the Pentagon said, and asked it to leave the drone in the water. That request wasn’t heeded.

It was the first time China has seized a piece of U.S. military gear since the Chinese detained a Navy surveillance plane that landed on Hainan Island following a midair collision in April 2001. Unlike that incident, however, the underwater drone was on an unclassified mission and isn’t considered a particularly valuable intelligence asset, according to a U.S. military official.

The Pentagon said the drone is known as an “ocean glider” and valued at approximately $150,000, one of many the U.S. Navy uses around the world to collect bathymetric data from the sea, along with data on the water’s salinity, temperature and current flow. Bright yellow and about 5 to 10 feet long, the drones often move slowly and autonomously to gather data about the ocean for weeks or months before U.S. Navy ships retrieve them.

‘China had no right to seize this vehicle. And the United States must not stand for such outrageous conduct.’

—Sen. John McCain
That data is often used to help U.S. submarines navigate. The U.S. Navy has also been developing, and gradually deploying, systems that use gliders and other undersea drones to listen for and track foreign submarines. The South China Sea has been an area of particular interest because of China’s expanding submarine capabilities.

A U.S. official said the glider seized by China was a Littoral Battlespace Sensing glider or similar underwater drone. The Littoral Battlespace Sensing glider was developed for the U.S. Space and Naval Warfare Systems Command, or SPAWAR, and has been deployed on several ships of the same class as the Bowditch, SPAWAR has said.

China has one of its largest submarine bases on Hainan Island, which abuts the South China Sea, and has sent attack submarines through those waters and into the Indian Ocean in the last two years or so.

China is also soon expected to conduct its first patrols by submarines carrying fully armed nuclear missiles, which will most likely stay within the South China Sea to begin with to try to evade detection by foreign militaries, according to U.S. officials and experts.

Pentagon press secretary Peter Cook described the ocean-glider drone as “a sovereign immune vessel of the United States” and said China had acted unlawfully in seizing it. The State Department lodged a formal diplomatic protest over Thursday’s incident.

Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman John McCain (R., Ariz.) called the Chinese Navy’s behavior a flagrant violation of the freedom of the seas. “China had no right to seize this vehicle,” he said. “And the United States must not stand for such outrageous conduct.”

A representative of the Chinese Embassy in Washington didn’t respond to a request for comment. The incident wasn’t mentioned on the website of the Chinese Defense Ministry, and calls to an after-hour duty office phone there weren’t answered.

It wasn’t clear if the drone seizure was provocative behavior by Chinese sailors or a broader geopolitical signal. U.S. military officials say they so far have no reason to believe the seizure was a decision in Beijing to send a message to Washington.

Jeffrey Bader, a former China adviser to President Barack Obama, said the action was so uncommon that it was unlikely the call was made by a local commander. Mr. Bader, now at the Brookings Institution, pointed to the location of the drone snatching—near the Philippines—as a potential sign that China was taking advantage of Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte’s moves to weaken the U.S.-Philippine alliance.

Other China-watchers suggested the Chinese Navy’s actions could be a response to Mr. Trump. “It’s better from their perspective to have a clear signal sent now so by the time he is sworn in, he gets it,” said Bonnie Glaser of the Center for Strategic and International Studies.

Jason Miller, a spokesman for Mr. Trump, declined to comment.

U.S. defense officials said the USNS Bowditch is typically harassed more than some other U.S. ships. Compared to destroyers and other warships, the small, unarmed vessel is viewed as less intimidating and sometimes invites more Chinese attention, they said.

China often views what the U.S. describes as routine military measures in international waters with suspicion, considering activities like oceanographic surveying as spy work.

The U.S. collects bathymetric data nearly everywhere the Navy operates, but prioritizes those areas like the Western Pacific, where the Navy spends more time navigating. The drones also capture sonar data to help the Navy determine where it’s harder to hear other vessels underwater.

The Chinese government has previously accused the U.S. of overdramatizing the situation in the South China Sea as a pretext to build up defenses of the U.S. and its allies in the region.

The U.S. has denied those accusations, arguing earlier this year that China has heightened tension in the region by reclaiming more than 3,200 acres of land in parts of the South China Sea over the previous two years and using “coercive tactics short of armed conflict” to assert power in the region.

The U.S. regularly sends ships and surveillance aircraft through the South China Sea on what the Pentagon describes as “freedom-of-navigation operations,” designed to signal that the waters should remain open to all.

At times, those operations have led to tension with the Chinese military, which regularly intercepts U.S. planes and ships, sometimes in a way the Pentagon has deemed unsafe or unprofessional. But the Chinese seizure this week of U.S. equipment marks an escalation the U.S. military so far hasn’t seen.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-research-vessels-survey-drone-grabbed-by-chinese-ship-1481909093


----------



## phancong

All the Indian and Indian expat in these forum most butt hurt by China captured US USV drone. Stop crying for the US, this incident will be solved by US and China government, Indian should not be bother much by a this lost drone.

What worrisome not about the drone lost to China but how and when China military know exact location of this drone positioned at.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## qwerrty

long_ said:


> *Americans seem very angry.*


yeah, i see a lot angry comments on american media websites. most of 'em probably typing angily from their chinese made phones in front of walmart stores wearing china-made clothes, shoes, etc..

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Daniel808

With this case, I must Admit.
China's Navy ASW (Anti Submarine Warfare) Capability is very Good.

2 Thumbs up for China's ASW Capability.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## F-22Raptor

Daniel808 said:


> With this case, I must Admit.
> China's Navy ASW (Anti Submarine Warfare) Capability is very Good.
> 
> 2 Thumbs up for China's ASW Capability.


 The USNS Bowditch was picking up 2 UUVs that had already completed their mission. They were both waiting on the surface of the water when one was stolen by the Chinese. This had nothing to do with ASW.


----------



## Akasa

samsara said:


> Sometimes when you are playing in somebody else's backyard, your stuff gets jacked.
> 
> That's just the way it goes.



International waters, 160 km off the Philippines' Subic Bay, is certainly not China's "backyard", geographically or politically.



F-22Raptor said:


> The USNS Bowditch was picking up 2 UUVs that had already completed their mission. They were both waiting on the surface of the water when one was stolen by the Chinese. This had nothing to do with ASW.



Unfortunately, the Obama administration would probably draw another of their famed "red lines", like they did against the Russians and Syrians for the DNC hack & civil war, respectively.


----------



## gambit

SinoSoldier said:


> Unfortunately, the Obama administration would probably draw another of their famed "red lines", like they did against the Russians and Syrians for the DNC hack & civil war, respectively.


So you see nothing wrong with petty theft.


----------



## F-22Raptor

Thəorətic Muslim said:


> Nope we can't.
> 
> I mean the MASSIVE BALLS the Chinese Navy has. Taking a Drone from an unarmed research ship.



The US military conducts operations in the SCS in some form everyday. There's a reason why they go after a UUV and not a US carrier group, destroyer, or fighter/bomber. They know s**t would hit the fan.


----------



## Akasa

gambit said:


> So you see nothing wrong with petty theft.



I was criticizing Obama's response (or lack thereof) to the situation. Don't take my words out of context.


----------



## gambit

SinoSoldier said:


> I was criticizing Obama's response (or lack thereof) to the situation. Don't take my words out of context.


What is there for Obama to respond ? The US Navy's response is not good enough ?

Anyway...Never mind US responses. Why the theft ? It is brazen. Right in front of the owner.

But it is noted that the ship was not a US Navy ship but a civilian research vessel. The PLAN bullying civilians.


----------



## Akasa

gambit said:


> What is there for Obama to respond ? The US Navy's response is not good enough ?
> 
> Anyway...Never mind US responses. *Why the theft ? It is brazen. Right in front of the owner.
> 
> But it is noted that the ship was not a US Navy ship but a civilian research vessel. The PLAN bullying civilians.*



What US Navy response? So far the current administration has yet to make an official response (verbal or otherwise) to the provocation; the Pentagon did voice a request for the Chinese to return the UUV but I doubt anyone would believe the Chinese would actually honor it.

You don't react to a burglary by asking nicely to have your belongings returned; you reach for your Mossberg.


----------



## F-22Raptor

SinoSoldier said:


> International waters, 160 km off the Philippines' Subic Bay, is certainly not China's "backyard", geographically or politically.
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, the Obama administration would probably draw another of their famed "red lines", like they did against the Russians and Syrians for the DNC hack & civil war, respectively.



US adversaries will eventually run into a US administration that will retaliate for such actions. Obama has certainly proven to be indecisive.


----------



## Akasa

F-22Raptor said:


> US adversaries will eventually run into a US administration that will retaliate for such actions.



The good days of Reagan, you mean?


----------



## gambit

SinoSoldier said:


> What US Navy response? So far the current administration has yet to make an official response (verbal or otherwise) to the provocation; the Pentagon did voice a request for the Chinese to return the UUV but I doubt anyone would believe the Chinese would actually honor it.
> 
> You don't react to a burglary by asking nicely to have your belongings returned; you reach for your Mossberg.


Why should there be a response in the first place ? 

You criticize Obama's lack of response. Great. That is like criticizing the robbery victim for being a victim.

Your avoidance of criticizing the Chinese government for this brazen theft is telling. It is a theft. It is bullying of civilians.

Now...Your China can always do what the Iranians did to our sailors. See what happens next. Trump may give your China a response you will not like.


----------



## Huan

F-22Raptor said:


> A Chinese Navy ship stole an American oceanographic underwater drone in the South China Sea approximately 40 miles west of the Philippines and about 150 miles from Scarborough Shoal, an area contested by the Chinese and the Philippines, two U.S. defense officials told Fox News.
> 
> The incident occurred around noon Thursday local time. The Chinese ship had been shadowing the American ship, USNS Bowditch for days.
> 
> The research ship was owned by the U.S. Navy but operated by Military Sealift Command, with a crew of contracted civilian mariners and scientists.
> 
> The Chinese have been regularly shadowing U.S. Navy vessels in the South China Sea for months, Fox News was told.
> 
> According to the USNS Bowditch ship's website, the ship is used to "support worldwide oceanography programs, including performing acoustical, biological, physical and geophysical surveys." Fox News was told the underwater drone was used to map the sea floor and other oceanographic data.
> 
> The drone was worth roughly $150,000 dollars. After the Chinese vessel plucked the drone out of the water, the American research ship attempted to call the Chinese ship over bridge-to-bridge radio, but to no avail.
> 
> The State Department launched a formal protest known as a demarche by the U.S. Ambassador and delivered to the Chinese government today, Fox News was told.
> 
> There was no immediate comment from the State Dept when Fox News reached out for comment.
> 
> http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/12/16/china-steals-us-underwater-drone-in-south-china-sea.html
> 
> Really China? So now your stealing drones conducting legitimate scientific research in international waters? Pathetic...[/


With incoming Trump, what do you expect?


----------



## phancong

gambit said:


> Why should there be a response in the first place ?
> 
> You criticize Obama's lack of response. Great. That is like criticizing the robbery victim for being a victim.
> 
> Your avoidance of criticizing the Chinese government for this brazen theft is telling. It is a theft. It is bullying of civilians.
> 
> Now...Your China can always do what the Iranians did to our sailors. See what happens next. Trump may give your China a response you will not like.


He not Chinese

Told you 10 yrs from now US navy will meet her match in SCS.

Chinese military fully know the location of this drone and scoop it up right in front of the US ship.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Akasa

gambit said:


> Why should there be a response in the first place ?
> 
> You criticize Obama's lack of response. Great. That is like criticizing the robbery victim for being a victim.
> 
> Your avoidance of criticizing the Chinese government for this brazen theft is telling. It is a theft. It is bullying of civilians.
> 
> Now...Your China can always do what the Iranians did to our sailors. See what happens next. Trump may give your China a response you will not like.



Sigh... you've taken my words out of context again. 

Re-read my post. I was criticizing Obama's administration for *apparent inaction*. Nowhere did I imply that China's actions were justified.

As for Trump, I'm all for what he has to offer. But you wouldn't believe that (not that it matters).


----------



## grey boy 2

Civilian ship my a@s

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Akasa

gambit said:


> Nope. I just exposed you for what you are -- a coward.



Right. If you say so. 



gambit said:


> Why is the response more important than the theft ?
> 
> This is why it is always entertaining debating you PDF Chinese. Your physical acrobats absolutely enchants Americans. Your mental gymnastics are equally fascinating.
> 
> A brazen theft occurred, but it is more critical to point out the lack of response by the victim.



Funny how you accuse me of criticizing the lack of a response when you are indirectly doing the same.


> See what happens next. Trump may give your China a response you will not like.


----------



## gambit

SinoSoldier said:


> Right. If you say so.


Apparently...The description fits. 



SinoSoldier said:


> Funny how you accuse me of criticizing the lack of a response when you are indirectly doing the same.


Nonsense. You are imagining things.

But I can make it official, if you like: I hereby condemn Obama for his lack of response.

There you go.

Now...As usual the evasion...The lack of response by the victim is far more important than the theft itself.


----------



## Akasa

gambit said:


> Apparently...The description fits.


I'm glad I made you feel better about yourself. 



gambit said:


> Nonsense. You are imagining things.
> 
> But I can make it official, if you like: I hereby condemn Obama for his lack of response.
> 
> There you go.
> 
> Now...As usual the evasion...The lack of response by the victim is far more important than the theft itself.


Because it's usually the response of the victim that governs the perpetrator's propensity to repeat the crime. I'm sure you've realized that the Chinese government isn't exactly spanking honest.


----------



## Gijoe

US cannot send the spy device down there, China hiding 100000 nukes there. So capture the unmanned device, is to send clear signal to US. Bring it on WW3, world ready for the nukes war scenario. Too bad US had no balls to do WW3 anyway. Lol


----------



## Gijoe

US demanding China, this is so hilarious. China giving you middle finger, talk to it. Maybe demand the India states they will bow down to you US. LMAO about this article.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## gambit

SinoSoldier said:


> Because it's usually the response of the victim that governs the perpetrator's propensity to repeat the crime. I'm sure you've realized that the Chinese government isn't exactly spanking honest.


Your focus on the supposedly lack of response by US reveals much about you, specifically, your sense of morality.

It does not matter if you steal from a stronger or weaker man than you. Theft is wrong. It does not matter if the victim responds or not. A nun may not respond at all and would suffer in silence, and in your opinion, she deserves it because she did not respond. That if phucked up, pal.

But *WHEN* the US Navy respond by increasing our presence in the SCS, we will see your PLAN scurries back to port like the coward it is.


----------



## Basel

Penguin said:


> BLah blah blah. All navies of any importance have oceanography ships.



kindly mind your language, you have lost my respect with that post.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Gijoe

Very good article, China is giving US the middle fingers to talk with And sit on it too.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Akasa

gambit said:


> Your focus on the supposedly lack of response by US reveals much about you, specifically, your sense of morality.
> 
> It does not matter if you steal from a stronger or weaker man than you. Theft is wrong. It does not matter if the victim responds or not. A nun may not respond at all and would suffer in silence, and in your opinion, she deserves it because she did not respond. That if phucked up, pal.
> 
> But *WHEN* the US Navy respond by increasing our presence in the SCS, we will see your PLAN scurries back to port like the coward it is.



I'm speaking from the perspective of the victim, in which case it is not only appropriate but almost obligatory to elicit a response; there are numerous examples in which the US responded very appropriately to unprovoked attacks (Operation El Dorado Canyon, cruise missile strikes against Yemeni forces that fired missiles at USN ships, etc.).



> But *WHEN* the US Navy respond by increasing our presence in the SCS


So, you *do* advocate for a response and find that preferable to merely scolding the perpetrator. I'm glad we're on the same page. Anything else you wish to needlessly argue about?


----------



## grey boy 2

And they said its a peaceful civilian ship LOL

Reactions: Positive Rating Positive Rating:
1 | Like Like:
8


----------



## gambit

SinoSoldier said:


> So, you *do* advocate for a response and find that preferable to merely scolding the perpetrator. I'm glad we're on the same page. Anything else you wish to needlessly argue about?


How will the US Navy will respond ? Trump will let the Navy decides. But I think the US Navy will be quiet about it. No need to make any public statement. Let you think the lack of public response means none at all. That is how small minds think.


----------



## graphican

There is no harm in asking anyway.. even though we know whats the result of this asking.


----------



## Akasa

gambit said:


> How will the US Navy will respond ? Trump will let the Navy decides. But I think the US Navy will be quiet about it. No need to make any public statement. Let you think the lack of public response means none at all. That is how small minds think.



Nobody is saying that public statements are the only way this situation could be handled. A response could very well be, as you've mentioned, an increase in the frequency of SCS patrols.


----------



## gambit

SinoSoldier said:


> Nobody is saying that public statements are the only way this situation could be handled. A response could very well be, as you've mentioned, an increase in the frequency of SCS patrols.


In a way, the Iranians have bigger balls than the Chinese when they grabbed those US Navy sailors. Foolish, but ballsy.


----------



## Akasa

gambit said:


> In a way, the Iranians have bigger balls than the Chinese when they grabbed those US Navy sailors. Foolish, but ballsy.



I thought you were emphasizing the importance of solidarity with the victim just a few posts ago. What's up with the sudden "Iranians have balls" mindset?


----------



## 艹艹艹

grey boy 2 said:


> And they said its a peaceful civilian ship LOL


*Only fools believe them*

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## TaiShang

Piotr said:


> Foxnews = CIA trolls = pathological liars = barking dogs of US imperialism
> 
> 
> You made my day.
> US militaryman are only good in torturing civilians, bombing hospitals, embassies and weddings and supporting terrorism.
> This is how US militaryman (dumb stupid animals according to Kissinnger) look like:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is how real militaryman look like:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW China should be vigilant. Evil US Empire like dirty tricks. In 2001 illegal aliens from Murika rammed Chinese jet:
> 
> Source: http://wiki.china.org.cn/wiki/index.php/Wang_Wei
> I salute hero Wang Wei.
> I salute brave Chinese People.
> Long live The Free World (China, Russia, rest of Asia, Africa, Latin America, some countries in Europe).
> 
> Best regards from (Greater)Poland.
> Pozdrowienia z (Wielko)Polski.
> Piotr



Well said. Only China and Russia can have a legitimate check on the US regime military. Russia is doing that in the European sphere. China is doing that in the East Asian sphere.

And the US regime has prove many times over that they are toothless against rivals with similar size and equal punching power.

The seized asset will likely be melted to make a number of rice cookers.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Jlaw

alwaysfair said:


> Pretty embarrasing for the americans . Its obviously for military use , probably mapping the ocean floor for sub use.
> If its taken in international waters, dont know what face saving can they come up with.


Yankees are crying and begging for China to give back drone. you can tell by yankee posters that they are pissed off and can't do anything about it.





Desertfalcon said:


> And yet, this time, China is the aggressor.


America superpower is whining and crying.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## TaiShang

long_ said:


> *Americans seem very angry.*





It is very easy to go under their skin.

Brace for many angry Tweets from their new boss who happens to care more about Russia than Russians themselves.

Besides, I do not understand why so may US-flagged Indians, including the OP, are roused up by this little confiscation incident.

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## terranMarine

It's not the first time China has humiliated the Yankees. We smashed them so hard during the Korean War they withdrew back to SK ASAP , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8th_Cavalry_Regiment , we slaughtered over 800 soldiers of the 8th Cavalry. Xi warned the US do not make trouble in our backyard (referring to DPRK's nuclear tests) and US didn't dare attack our neighbor. This year we gave SEA region and US a taste of China's fury with over 100 units in SCS drill. US admiral rushed all the way to Beijing to calm us down  and now this sea drone. US must love being humiliated all the time by the PLA

Reactions: Like Like:
12


----------



## BoQ77

The Chinese ship is Type 922 III , sub rescue, I guess there is a Chinese sub in the area, and China wanna intercept the USNS Bowditch tracing the sub signature.


----------



## Jlaw

terranMarine said:


> It's not the first time China has humiliated the Yankees. We smashed them so hard during the Korean War they withdrew back to SK ASAP , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8th_Cavalry_Regiment , we slaughtered over 800 soldiers of the 8th Cavalry. Xi warned the US do not make trouble in our backyard (referring to DPRK's nuclear tests) and US didn't dare attack our neighbor. This year we gave SEA region and US a taste of China's fury with over 100 units in SCS drill. US admiral rushed all the way to Beijing to calm us down  and now this sea drone. US must love being humiliated all the time by the PLA


but wait ! US WILL retaliate by providing China in advance with flight coordinates of SCS. Then they will fly two unarmed B52 into SCS. the MSM will spin the story saying how brave US is.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## gambit

Jlaw said:


> Yankees are crying and begging for China to give back drone.


Say what...??? 

The Iranians got bigger balls than you do when they grabbed those US Navy sailors. In the end, they returned our people. But here you just took an inanimate object that made you orgasm ?



Jlaw said:


> but wait ! US WILL retaliate by providing China in advance with flight coordinates of SCS. Then they will fly two unarmed B52 into SCS. the MSM will spin the story saying how brave US is.


Note -- unarmed. Your China did nothing back then, and your China will do nothing in the future. And your Chinese government will spin on how brave your PLAN sailors were in capturing that inanimate object.


----------



## terranMarine

Jlaw said:


> but wait ! US WILL retaliate by providing China in advance with flight coordinates of SCS. Then they will fly two unarmed B52 into SCS. the MSM will spin the story saying how brave US is.



Can't trust MSM, Hillary lost because of MSM remember? She has been blaming the media for her ugly defeat and Obama is helping her by accusing the Russians rigging the votes through cyber hacking . Americans are definitely not brave, the bald eagle doesn't suit them, must replace it with a chicken

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## gambit

terranMarine said:


> It's not the first time China has humiliated the Yankees.


Sure we are 'humiliated'. You captured an inanimate object while we armed Taiwan.


----------



## terranMarine

gambit said:


> Sure we are 'humiliated'. You captured an inanimate object while we armed Taiwan.



You arm Taiwan with junk oldman that's the difference. US don't treat TW the same as Japan or SK. These countries get access to F-35 and US modern destroyers. You sell old garbage to Taiwan because US does not trust the TW military for good reason. That's right we have plenty of spies inside TW's military

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## gambit

terranMarine said:


> You arm Taiwan with junk oldman that's the difference. US don't treat TW the same as Japan or SK. These countries get access to F-35 and US modern destroyers. You sell old garbage to Taiwan because US does not trust the TW military for good reason. That's right we have plenty of spies inside TW's military


Those 'junk' are enough to give your government pause, pal, and those 'junk' are all that is needed. 

But let us get back to the issue that you guys creamed your pants over the capture of a drone.


----------



## terranMarine

gambit said:


> Those 'junk' are enough to give your government pause, pal, and those 'junk' are all that is needed.
> 
> But let us get back to the issue that you guys creamed your pants over the capture of a drone.


 yeah the PLA is shaking with fear from US old junk

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## gambit

terranMarine said:


> yeah the PLA is shaking with fear from US old junk


It is shaking. So bad I can hear in the States.


----------



## terranMarine

gambit said:


> It is shaking. So bad I can hear in the States.


You better get used to that sound because it's gonna sound a lot louder when the PLA unleash its full power

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## TaiShang

terranMarine said:


> Can't trust MSM, Hillary lost because of MSM remember? She has been blaming the media for her ugly defeat and Obama is helping her by accusing the Russians rigging the votes through cyber hacking . Americans are definitely not brave, the bald eagle doesn't suit them, must replace it with a chicken



Obama brought up the Russian spying on and cyber-hacking of US elections.

Trump, in return, argued that Obama's birth certificate was a fake one.

Interesting how the US regime lost direction and stability like a decapitated chicken. 



Jlaw said:


> but wait ! US WILL retaliate by providing China in advance with flight coordinates of SCS. Then they will fly two unarmed B52 into SCS. the MSM will spin the story saying how brave US is.



It is easy to get US extreme nationalists arouse; just conduct an innocent passage or fly unarmed bombers nearby territories owned by China, and US nationalists will feel satisfied. Apparently no more long-term thinking, but the regular empty rhetoric like Obama's "always triple A nation" blabber.

Real life functions apparently quite different.



terranMarine said:


> ooooh so the sea drone is so high tech we don't know what the phukk it is? Damn how on earth did we manage to find this alien tech in the first place. Oh we are having an orgasm right now because we achieved something nobody else managed to track it down.



I like to be humble and argue that this was a smaller lesson to the US breach of China's sovereignty than what the Iranians did with that military UAV.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## terranMarine

gambit said:


> It is going to sound like a kid jacking off considering how many Chinese men cannot get women.
> 
> When a bunch of US Navy sailors gone off course, the Iranians grabbed them. In this case, your 'mighty' PLAN had a ship in its sight and you took -- a drone ?
> 
> I bet when your PLAN take this underwater drone back to the labs, your scientists will blow their head gaskets: " What the phukk is this ? Our university students can build this shit. "



now that you mention about the Iranians having your US navy sailors taken into custody is it why the US sending a tiny sea drone to avoid international embarrassment again?

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Akasa

TaiShang said:


> Obama brought up the Russian spying on and cyber-hacking of US elections.
> 
> Trump, in return, argued that Obama's birth certificate was a fake one.
> 
> Interesting how the US regime lost direction and stability like a decapitated chicken.



Trump's birth certificate fiasco occurred in 2011; the DNC hacking scandal (or so it is claimed) was earlier this month.

It was a sheriff, not Trump, who later claimed that the certificate was fake.



TaiShang said:


> It is easy to get US extreme nationalists arouse; just conduct an innocent passage or fly unarmed bombers nearby territories owned by China, and US nationalists will feel satisfied. Apparently no more long-term thinking, but the regular empty rhetoric like Obama's "always triple A nation" blabber.
> 
> Real life functions apparently quite different.
> 
> 
> 
> I like to be humble and argue that this was a smaller lesson to the US breach of China's sovereignty than what the Iranians did with that military UAV.



What breach of sovereignty? The UAV was taken 160 km from Subic bay, far from China's UNCLOS-defined waters.


----------



## BuddhaPalm

gambit said:


> Sure we are 'humiliated'. You captured an inanimate object while we armed Taiwan.


After so much boasting about confronting China in South China Sea, you don't even have the balls to stop us from confiscating your military equipment. Just keep whining on this thread and boasting as usual

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## gambit

terranMarine said:


> ooooh so the sea drone is so high tech we don't know what the phukk it is? Damn how on earth did we manage to find this alien tech in the first place. Oh we are having an orgasm right now because we achieved something nobody else managed to track it down.


What is there to 'track' ? All the PLAN had to do is wait by the ship. 

You guys so often boasted that in the Korean War, you 'humiliated' the US. So now you went from humiliating Douglas MacArthur to humiliating -- a drone ? 

I bet that that once PLAN sailors got the drone aboard their ship, they surrounded the drone and taunted it. 



terranMarine said:


> now that you mention about the Iranians having your US navy sailors taken into custody is it why the US sending a tiny sea drone to avoid international embarrassment again?


You felled for it, did ya ?


----------



## TaiShang

SinoSoldier said:


> Trump's birth certificate fiasco occurred in 2011; the DNC hacking scandal (or so it is claimed) was earlier this month.
> 
> It was a sheriff, not Trump, who later claimed that the certificate was fake.



I read on Fox that Trump raised the birth question again after Obama blamed Russia for Trump's victory.

Of course, you cannot really trust the US media these days; it is all about to which political group they belong. These days I feel pretty much close to Fox News line of argument.



SinoSoldier said:


> What breach of sovereignty? The UAV was taken 160 km from Subic bay, far from China's UNCLOS-defined waters.



UNCLOS does not define any waters that belong to a sovereign. It was confiscated in China-defined sovereign waters, as Mr. Duterte would agree, as well.



BuddhaPalm said:


> After so much boasting about confronting China in South China Sea, you don't even have the balls to stop us from confiscating your military equipment. Just keep whining on this thread and boasting as usual



Several Tweets by Trump, and they will start to feel good again.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## terranMarine

gambit said:


> What is there to 'track' ? All the PLAN had to do is wait by the ship.
> 
> You guys so often boasted that in the Korean War, you 'humiliated' the US. So now you went from humiliating Douglas MacArthur to humiliating -- a drone ?
> 
> I bet that that once PLAN sailors got the drone aboard their ship, they surrounded the drone and taunted it.



WOOT?? did we knew in advance where that little sneaky toy was gonna be? Our hacking skills must have been so great we know US toy deployments from the beginning.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## gambit

BuddhaPalm said:


> After so much boasting about confronting China in South China Sea, you don't even have the balls to stop us from confiscating your military equipment. Just keep whining on this thread and boasting as usual


Yeah...All it takes to confront you is a civilian ship running drones.



terranMarine said:


> WOOT?? did we knew in advance where that little sneaky toy was gonna be? Our hacking skills must have been so great we know US toy deployments from the beginning.


No hacking skills. Just a bunch of little Chinese junks, like the ones you guys so often said used to track US aircraft carriers to guide the DF-21D.


----------



## rott

beijingwalker said:


> US came all the way across the oceans to the Chinese territorial waters to espionage and China seized their equipment, and they cowardly claimed we stole their belongings. A thief claims they lost something after sneaked into other people's home.


I was just about to say the exact same thing. 
Lol, a thief calling the house owner a thief.



beijingwalker said:


> Next time we will seize their aircraft carriers if they come close enough.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## gambit

TaiShang said:


> UNCLOS does not define any waters that belong to a sovereign. It was confiscated in *China-defined sovereign waters*,...


Which is worthless.


----------



## terranMarine

gambit said:


> Just like how convincing it is that this is a 'victory' for the PLAN that it bullied a civilian ship.


Nobody said it was a victory, it's just another embarrassment for the US sneaky tactics. Iran captured the sentinel drone, captured your sailors, China captures this sea drone now. If anything it seems like the US is always begging to be captured by foreign entity.  must be addicting

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## truthseeker2010

gambit said:


> And we will sink those PLAN junks and seize the Chinese sailors.



please do that, if u can.........

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## terranMarine

gambit said:


> Then is that not embarrassing for China ?


Nope because US is crying for the return of the sea drone, obviously it is storing very sensitive data for the US Navy.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## truthseeker2010

gambit said:


> Try to take the aircraft carrier first...And see what happens...Our females Marines are tougher than you PLA troopers.



empty words and no action..... thats the new great america......

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## BuddhaPalm

gambit said:


> Yeah...All it takes to confront you is a civilian ship running drones.


LOL it's already middle of the night in USA and you are still on the internet trying to heal your bruised ego after a PLA spanking! 

Carry on... like you have no family, career or social life

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## gambit

terranMarine said:


> Nope because US is crying for the return of the sea drone, obviously it is storing very sensitive data for the US Navy.


We are not 'crying' for the thing. For starter, every vessel that have ancillary items like deployable boats or in this case a research drone are fully prepped to lose these items. You do not know it, but the commander of the Liaoning is fully readied to lose one or more of his aircrafts. That is life.

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/12/16/politics/chinese-warship-underwater-drone-stolen/


> Bowditch had stopped in the water to pick up two underwater drones. At that point a Chinese naval ship that had been shadowing the Bowditch put a small boat into the water. That small boat came up alongside and the Chinese crew took one of the drones.


You have been following the Bowditch for quite some time. You waited at the right moment to steal the drone. We knew who was following US, therefore, we were prepped to lose even the ship itself. In the end, you were nothing but a thief.



truthseeker2010 said:


> empty words and no action..... thats the new great america......


Empty words and no actions, except for petty theft. That is the rising China.


----------



## truthseeker2010

gambit said:


> Empty words and no actions, except for petty theft. That is the rising China.



Humiliation on continuous basis in SCS, that is US.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## gambit

truthseeker2010 said:


> Humiliation on continuous basis in SCS, that is US.


You claimed the SCS is yours, and yet we play in it as we please. That is the real humiliation.


----------



## truthseeker2010

gambit said:


> You claimed the SCS is yours, and yet we play in it as we please. That is the real humiliation.



As long as SCS is being developed, and US's petty games being exposed on regular basis, if it pleases u, carry on.......
if u r playing, why are u pleading to return the thing?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Penguin

Beast said:


> Did Chinese goes other people backyard and do those sneaky cheap moves and then lost the equipment and then do propangada garbage accusing others of stealing their equipment? No.. So only American is doing that and my assessment is correct.


40 miles of the Philippine coast is China's backyard? Hahaha.


----------



## gambit

truthseeker2010 said:


> As long as SCS is being developed, and US's petty games being exposed on regular basis, if it pleases u, carry on.......
> if u r playing, why are u pleading to return the thing?


If someone stole something from you, why not ask for its return ? So what if it is nothing more than a formality and we know that the Chinese thief would not return it ? Yours is such a stupid question. That is like why bother prosecuting a murderer when nothing would bring the victim back to life.

The reality is that you cannot afford to return it lest you lose face. So it is all the more reason for US to keep asking for it.


----------



## Daniel808

BuddhaPalm said:


> LOL it's already middle of the night in USA and you are still on the internet trying to heal your bruised ego after a PLA spanking!
> 
> Carry on... like you have no family, career or social life



US Centcom Army must pay more Overtime for him. lol 
Typical loser in Real Life.
Just barking in internet

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Dungeness

Looks like China doesn't have any use for it any more.


----------



## Penguin

Place Of Space said:


> UNCLOS isn't applicable to this case. This is outcomes of WWII victory.


China signed the UNCLOS agreement Dec 10, 1982 Jun 7, 1996 and ratified Jul 29, 1994. Subsequently, the "Agreement relating to the implementation of Part XI of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea" amending the original Convention was signed by China Jul 29, 1994, and ratified Jun 7, 1996.

Both agreements are 100% applicable.


----------



## TaiShang

Next time we may cooperate with the Philippines to chase the US spies away from our sovereign waters.

NOTE: UNCLOS on sovereignty is as useful as a second hand tissue paper- as has been factually proven 17 times, including once by China.

***

*Coast guards of Philippines, China vow to enhance cooperation*
(Xinhua) 19:35, December 16, 2016

MANILA, Dec. 16 (Xinhua) -- The Philippines Coast Guard(PCG) and the China Coast Guard (CCG) agreed to strengthen cooperation and mutual trust in certain maritime issues, according to a joint statement released on Friday in Manila.

The PCG and CCG held the first meeting on Thursday and Friday in Manila, discussing the establishment of the Joint Coast Guard Committee (JCGC) as the initial cooperation platform for both sides.

The statement said the JCGC, once established, will serve as a venue for both Coast Guards to strengthen mutual trust, deepen confidence, intensify communications and exchange, enhance friendly cooperation based on equality, reciprocity, and consensus.

Both sides had a friendly exchange of views on the establishment of the JCGC, including the principles of the organizational structure, terms of references, and operational procedures, the statement said.

The two sides also explored possible programs of maritime cooperation, including combating drug trafficking and other maritime crimes, marine environmental protection, maritime search and rescue, and capacity-building in related areas.

During the meeting, the two sides had a substantial discussion on an interim arrangement for a proposed hotline communication. It was also agreed to convene the second organizational meeting and the inaugural meeting of the JCGC in February 2017 in Philippines.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## qwerrty

the funny thing is american media keep mentioning that china stole their drone outside the 9-dash line..

what does this sound like to you?

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## gambit

Dungeness said:


> Looks like China doesn't have any use for it any more.


So it looks like someone in the PLA leadership royally phukked up.


----------



## TaiShang

qwerrty said:


> the funny thing is american media keep mentioning that china stole their drone outside the 9-dash line..
> 
> what does this sound like to you?



The New Normal.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Dungeness

gambit said:


> So it looks like someone in the PLA leadership royally phukked up.



I think they just want to piss some people off, and they did.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## gambit

Dungeness said:


> I think they just want to piss some people off, and they did.


We are not pissed off. Right now, the Pentagon brass are laughing their stars off their epaulets.

*YOU HAD A SHIP AND YOU WENT AFTER A DRONE.*

What does a drone do ? Gather and send information. The real money is in the ship.


----------



## Dungeness

gambit said:


> We are not pissed off. Right now, the Pentagon brass are laughing their stars off their epaulets.
> 
> *YOU HAD A SHIP AND YOU WENT AFTER A DRONE.*
> 
> What does a drone do ? Gather and send information. The real money is in the ship.



They just wanted to keep sea lane clean. You guys seem to be really pissed, kept screaming "steal". No worry, US Navy will get it back, and hopefully in one piece.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## TaiShang

long_ said:


> *Images show 'significant' Chinese weapons systems in South China Sea*



Nice defence and scientific-research facilities. These might as well be called 'regional public goods.'

***

*China claims legitimacy of defensive facilities on South China Sea*
By Kou Jie (People's Daily Online) 16:30, December 16, 2016






_[File photo]_

The recent accusation by the U.S. of China’s deployment of defense facilities in the South China Sea was denounced by the latter’s diplomatic and military authorities, which reiterated the country’s sovereignty over the disputed waters.

In response to a U.S. think tank’s accusation that China is installing weaponry systems on seven islands in the South China Sea, foreign ministry spokesperson Geng Shuang stressed on Dec. 15 that *the islands are China’s territory; building facilities and deploying necessary defense equipment on them is the right of a sovereign state as recognized by international law.*

The same day, the Chinese Defense Ministry also objected to the accusation, adding that China has stated its position many times - that the construction activities are primarily for civilian purposes.

* “It’s not very common for the two ministries to make public declarations at the same time. Tensions between China and the U.S are already heightened after Donald Trump’s recent public accusation of China’s stance on the South China Sea, and the joint responses have shown China’s determination to safeguard its sovereignty,” a Hainan-based military expert told People’s Daily Online.*

Despite China’s efforts to keep regional peace, the U.S. said it would confront China should it continue its maritime claims in the South China Sea. According to Reuters, U.S. Admiral Harry Harris said on Dec. 14 that his country will not allow a shared domain to be closed down unilaterally no matter how many bases are built on artificial features in the South China Sea, and the U.S. will be ready to confront China if necessary.

The U.S. has been trying to hype up the dispute in the South China Sea in an effort to escalate an already complicated situation. However, the accusations are groundless and are not helpful for regional peace and stability, the expert said.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## gambit

Dungeness said:


> They just wanted to keep sea lane clean. You guys seem to be really pissed, kept screaming "steal". No worry, US Navy will get it back, and hopefully in one piece.


You can keep the thing...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pathfinder-class_survey_ship

The _Bowditch_ is 3rd in the class.

The ship is loaded with equipment to store and analyze data.

*AND YOU WENT AFTER THE DRONE*


----------



## Pangu

gambit said:


> You PDF Chinese said the same 'cooperate' thing with Venezuela...And now look...Your China abandoned Venezuela...



Hey, at least we didn't go to the Marshall Islands, lied to the natives that blowing up & poisoning their islands with nukes is to save the world or some such nonsense.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## gambit

Pangu said:


> Hey, at least we didn't go to the Marshall Islands, lied to the natives that blowing up & poisoning their islands with nukes is to save the world or some such nonsense.


Of course not. But we expect your China to at least know the great value difference between a ship and its drone and steal the correct one.


----------



## Dungeness

gambit said:


> You can keep the thing...
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pathfinder-class_survey_ship
> 
> The _Bowditch_ is 3rd in the class.
> 
> The ship is loaded with equipment to store and analyze data.
> 
> *AND YOU WENT AFTER THE DRONE*




Yea, they did. They may have thought it was some debris from MH370, and they needed to do some investigation. You know no every Chinese understand English. Please advise Navy, next time print the labels in Chinese.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Pangu

gambit said:


> Of course not. But we expect your China to at least know the great value difference between a ship and its drone and steal the correct one.



Those drones will do nicely, thank you America. I'm sure you guys have plenty more to send them our way, thanks for continuing to contribute to our fishermen s harvest.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## gambit

Dungeness said:


> Yea, they did. *They may have thought it was some debris from MH370, and they needed to do some investigation.* You know no every Chinese understand English. Please advise Navy, next time print the labels in Chinese.


Then absolutely on behalf of the US, I apologize to China. I had no idea the nobility of what they did.

Of course, since it was all a misunderstanding, China should have no problems returning the drone. Right ?


----------



## TaiShang

Interesting no official reaction from China's side so far.

The US media and regime is going on full-throttle by the way. Being ignored like this must be not easy.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## gambit

Pangu said:


> *Those drones will do nicely, thank you America.* I'm sure you guys have plenty more to send them our way, thanks for continuing to contribute to our fishermen s harvest.


You are welcome. I had no idea these simple things are too sophisticated for your universities to design and build that you must resort to petty theft.


----------



## TaiShang

Pangu said:


> Those drones will do nicely, thank you America. I'm sure you guys have plenty more to send them our way, thanks for continuing to contribute to our fishermen s harvest.



They have money. They can easily build more.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## gambit

TaiShang said:


> Interesting no official reaction from China's side so far.
> 
> The US media and regime is going on full-throttle by the way. Being ignored like this must be not easy.


Usually, thieves do not say much about what they stole.


----------



## Dungeness

gambit said:


> Then absolutely on behalf of the US, I apologize to China. I had no idea the nobility of what they did.
> 
> Of course, since it was all a misunderstanding, China should have no problems returning the drone. Right ?




Most likely, they will return it to rightful owner. My guess is it's sitting in their *Lost And Found* bin on one of their islands.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## gambit

Dungeness said:


> Most likely, they will return it to rightful owner.


And we will accept with great gratitude...< snicker snicker snicker >


----------



## phancong

US underestimate China military capacity to track and located a object in the ocean, what alarming to this incident that China capility to located a submersible object then flaunted their capility to the world by scoop the submersible drone right in front of the US ship.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## grey boy 2

gambit said:


> Usually, thieves do not say much about what they stole.



Old man, lets be honest for once in your life
You're still piss hurt that you believed China has stolen your "South Vietnam"
Although i agreed with you China hadn't said much about that as well LOL

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## qwerrty

TaiShang said:


> The New Normal.


sounded like they accepting china's 9-dash line. china won

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Dungeness

gambit said:


> And we will accept with great gratitude...< snicker snicker snicker >



I hope they will be nice enough not to charge US Navy a storage fee or fine for littering.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## gambit

grey boy 2 said:


> Old man, lets be honest for once in your life
> You're still piss hurt that you believed China has stolen your "South Vietnam"
> Although i agreed with you China hadn't said much about that as well LOL


Not only was your China a thief, she was a stalker as well.

Here are some more details on the event...

https://www.inverse.com/article/25346-usns-bowditch-underwater-drone-stolen-china


> While the details of the engagement are unclear, early reports explain the event like this: The _Bowditch_ was surveying 50 nautical miles off the Subic Bay off of the Philippines.


So while the headlines misleadingly said 'South China Sea', the _Bowditch_ was actually *INSIDE* Subic Bay off the Philippines.

All this time, you PDF Chinese repeatedly said the ship trespassed Chinese territorial waters and therefore justified in taking the drone. Now it turned out the ship was nowhere near China.

You stalked US, waited for the right moment, then stole our property. Right in front of someone else's front yard.



Dungeness said:


> I hope they will be nice enough not to charge US Navy a storage fee or fine for littering.


We will pay a reasonable storage fee. Of course, provided the Chinese government can recover from its red face to return it.


----------



## phancong

gambit said:


> Not only was your China a thief, she was a stalker as well.
> 
> Here are some more details on the event...
> 
> https://www.inverse.com/article/25346-usns-bowditch-underwater-drone-stolen-china
> 
> So while the headlines misleadingly said 'South China Sea', the _Bowditch_ was actually *INSIDE* Subic Bay off the Philippines.
> 
> All this time, you PDF Chinese repeatedly said the ship trespassed Chinese territorial waters and therefore justified in taking the drone. Now it turned out the ship was nowhere near China.
> 
> You stalked US, waited for the right moment, then stole our property. Right in front of someone else's front yard.


You left your possession unattended, any passerby can pick it up which too late to whine and cry about your possession.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## gambit

phancong said:


> You left your possession unattended, any passerby can pick it up which too late to whine and cry about your possession.


Right...This means if you leave your child, home, car, or money unattended, anyone can claim it.

No wonder the PDF Chinese and their supporters are laughed at on this forum.


----------



## Dungeness

gambit said:


> We will pay a reasonable storage fee. Of course, provided the Chinese government can recover from its red face to return it.



Why China should have red face? They saw a debris floating on they patrolled area , and they just remove it. There are lots of read faces today, but they are not Chinese.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## phancong

Freaking stupid not to make sure the unman drone would never felt into the hand on China while it on the mission to gather Intel and data from the China naval military actitvity. No cry and whine about US lost the drone just made US a laughing stock of the world.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## gambit

Dungeness said:


> Why China should have red face? They saw a debris floating on they patrolled area , and they just remove it. There are lots of read faces today, but they are not Chinese.


Debris ? I guess technical incompetence can be excused.



phancong said:


> Freaking stupid not to make sure the unman drone would never felt into the hand on China while *it on the mission to gather Intel and data from the China naval military actitvity.* No cry and whine about US lost the drone just made US a laughing stock of the world.


So Subic Bay and the Philippines belongs to China.


----------



## phancong

gambit said:


> Right...This means if you leave your child, home, car, or money unattended, anyone can claim it.
> 
> No wonder the PDF Chinese and their supporters are laughed at on this forum.


When you leave your property unattended, you just invited strange into your home with an open arm to take away your belonging. No point to bemoaned your lost possession, just have to be more careful next time.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Dungeness

gambit said:


> Debris ? I guess technical incompetence can be excused.



Whatever they thought it was. Former US Ambassador to UN thought it was a humiliation to the US.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## phancong

gambit said:


> Debris ? I guess technical incompetence can be excused.
> 
> 
> So Subic Bay and the Philippines belongs to China.


Did I say anything to belong to China? US navy claimed the droned position in the international water, China founded an object in the international water they pick it up, up to them to give it back to the rightfull owner. Just like someone pick up a wallet on the street, up to them to located and return the wallet to it rightfull owner.


----------



## terranMarine

gambit said:


> You PDF Chinese might want to consider this dingbat to be a plant to make you guys looks like idiots. By his reasoning, we can board the Liaoning and claim it if we 'found' your ship in international water.



well you could certainly try, it never stopped Europeans from stealing America from the Native Americans.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## phancong

gambit said:


> You PDF Chinese might want to consider this dingbat to be a plant to make you guys looks like idiots. By his reasoning, we can board the Liaoning and claim it if we 'found' your ship in international water.


You can board a Chinese well arm manned ship and claimed it your, let see how fast your head get blow up in a sec.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## gambit

terranMarine said:


> well you could certainly try, it never stopped Europeans from stealing America from the Native Americans.


What do *YOU* think now that you learned the event occurred nowhere near your China ?


----------



## grey boy 2

Zhu Rong Zheng Yang said:


> _Repost _... ...
> 
> *@SinoSoldier
> WARNING: Indian Poster Revealed*
> 
> 
> 
> I have been wondering about your origin for a *while watching you sabotaged and stabbed PRC in the back with your frequently Derogatory and Snide comments on PRC military hardware in PDF and in that Fake and Pretentious* ( Sino Defense Forum ).
> 
> 
> View attachment 360947
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AHA, ... ...
> Then, suddenly you revealed your origin by changing your avatar with a *Hindustan LCA Tejas*.
> Now, you changed your avatar to *Obsolete Rafael* ( _*no DSI tech*_ )
> You are still trying to fool and confuse people that you are somewhat Chinese. -- Are you ?
> 
> There is no need to hide your identity behind the word < SINO > and using 2 Canadian Flags.
> I guess you are NOT proud to be INDIAN and ASIAN.
> Then, you are disgracing the INDIAN nation specifically, and ASIAN in general.
> 
> 
> 
> ===
> 
> PLAN need to demonstrate to the Global audience how PLA AShM arsenals are performing in the real world.
> Please quickly ask USN and the Half Japanese Harry Harris to send that 4 *Vomit Burky* destroyers sailing inside 12 nm of PRC SCS islands.
> 
> Many Chinese are eagerly waiting.
> 
> 
> View attachment 361083



Bro, don't worry, most of the Chinese members knew about this shameless false flagger, thanks form your efforts anyway

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## phancong

terranMarine said:


> well you could certainly try, it never stopped Europeans from stealing America from the Native Americans.


Better off to laugh at his high IQ reasoning.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## terranMarine

gambit said:


> What do *YOU* think now that you learned the event occurred nowhere near your China ?



Again the sea drone got confiscated through LEGAL justification. Killing Native Americans, robbing their soil and claiming they are the new Americans is called stealing, genocide. I know the Americans scared the sh!t out of you in Vietnam your mental psychology has been affected ever since. Your new master, your new home provides you shelter and food i can truly understand you have abandoned your own country and race. But do you seriously have to come to defend your master like what you are doing right now? It's okay your master knows you are working hard to repay them back for your loyalty. Time to take a break because everybody can see you keep making up new excuses.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Dungeness

gambit said:


> Sure, the 'humiliation' was sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo painful...
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/16/politics/chinese-warship-underwater-drone-stolen/
> 
> We were nowhere near China when you stole our property.
> 
> Spin any way you want. Only the PDF Chinese will believe that the Philippines belongs to China, therefore, justified in theft.



Calm down pal, don't get *red faced*. It's what the old man said, and he may be the next secretary of the state.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## United

https://defence.pk/threads/us-navy-set-to-deploy-underwater-drones-in-the-south-china-sea.427365/

@gambit Obama's foreign policies have failed miserably........don't expect anything else from next one.

Rusk & Chins have been bitcch slapin Americans all over the globe ( Ukrn,Sirya,philpins........)


----------



## ashok321

Trump talks to Taiwan Premier.
China snatches US submarine drone.
This cat & mouse game would be far from over.


----------



## brokk

Dungeness said:


> Calm down pal, don't get *red faced*. It's what the old man said, and he may be the next secretary of the state.



Lol, the US has leveled up on hypocrisy, I find it funny that they got their toy confiscated for sticking it where it shouldn't be. The US backs countries with bias to extend national waters to fit its own needs, places its bases in zones of other countries (N.Syria), funds terrorists to their war for them (Syria, Iraq....), and used drones to kill people in other countries (Pakistan) that it has not declared war against.. when other nations do it, it begins to play 'holier-than-thou' speeches... 

Thumbs up to China!

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Zhu Rong Zheng Yang

What I regret the most --- is PLAN should have *taken the 2nd USN drone as well*.
If we have the 2nd drone, we can compare their inner configurations, and designed a better mousetrap next time.
The PLAN shall had sent multiple speed boats to go after the USN drones in the future.

Let's deploy these FAC-22 all over SCS.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## mike2000 is back

SinoSoldier said:


> What US Navy response? So far the current administration has yet to make an official response (verbal or otherwise) to the provocation; the Pentagon did voice a request for the Chinese to return the UUV but I doubt anyone would believe the Chinese would actually honor it.
> 
> You don't react to a burglary by asking nicely to have your belongings returned; you reach for your Mossberg.


Lol What do you want Obama to do? Declare war because of a small Underwater drone that is unclassified and easilly available commercially to civilians and anybody alike? Lol This underwater drone costs just over 100,000 dollars for Christ sake, it's not something any country (even a small country) will be worried about. Even if it was Syria, Iran, Yemen, North Korea, Cuba, Venezuela, Gambia etc who did this, the U.S will act the same way they did by using diplomatic channels to demand the return of their UAV not declaring war or even sanctions. So nothing surprising there.
If anything it's more bad for China's image,since for them to openly and publicly steal another country's underwater drone carryng out scientific research in International waters will give them a negative image around the region and world. Even more so giving this equipment they stole has no classified or top secret technology that could help boost their military/commercial industry, unlike say the RQ-90 drone that crashed in Iran, that was classified technology which helped them .

I do agree with your point though, that Obama has been a very passive/inactive and indecisive leader, but that's his personality though, can't blame him.


----------



## TaiShang

This is not a reason for the US to be embarrassed.

They need to be able to solve the small issue through proper diplomatic channels. No need to get a red face over this.

Obama once negotiated with Iran to release some US military persons breaching into Iranian waters and Obama sent a plane-full of cash and solved the crisis from getting out of hand.

I am sure Obama will find a way to solve this small issue, as well, in an over/covert manner.

China, in the meantime, will get whatever it needs from this situation. Apparently, being a small incident, it cannot be made use of forever.

Nonetheless, the incident served its purpose in here, at least, leading to a healthy 17 pages debate.

In the end, PDF got traffic. China got cool. US got red faced and angry.

The East Asia region is silently pleased the way China educated the US about proper international conduct and respect for sovereignty.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## 艹艹艹



Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Hindustani78

http://zeenews.india.com/news/world...be-resolved-smoothly-china-paper_1959312.html

PTI | Last Updated: Saturday, December 17, 2016 - 12:36

Beijing: China expects a smooth resolution to the seizure by its navy of unidentified equipment found in the South China Sea, a state-run newspaper said on Saturday, after U.S. officials said a Chinese warship had taken a U.S. underwater drone.

The drone was taken on Thursday, the first seizure of its kind in recent memory, about 50 nautical miles northwest of Subic Bay off the Philippines just as the USNS Bowditch was about to retrieve the unmanned underwater vehicle (UUV), U.S. officials said.

China's influential state-run tabloid the Global Times, citing an unidentified Chinese source, said a Chinese naval vessel had discovered "unidentified equipment" and checked it to prevent any navigational safety issues.

"This person said China has already received a claim request for the equipment from the U.S. side, relevant parties from both sides have maintained smooth communication channels, and believe this issue will be smoothly resolved," the paper said.

China's defense and foreign ministries have yet to comment publicly on the issue.

"The UUV was lawfully conducting a military survey in the waters of the South China Sea," a U.S. official said, speaking on condition of anonymity. "It`s a sovereign immune vessel, clearly marked in English not to be removed from the water - that it was U.S. property," the official said. 

The Pentagon confirmed the incident at a news briefing on Friday, and said the drone used commercially available technology and sold for about $150,000.

Still, the Pentagon viewed China`s seizure seriously since it had effectively taken U.S. military property.

"It is ours, and it is clearly marked as ours and we would like it back. And we would like this not to happen again," Pentagon spokesman Jeff Davis said.
HEIGHTENED CONCERNS

The seizure will add to concerns about China`s increased military presence and aggressive posture in the disputed South China Sea, including its militarization of maritime outposts.

It coincided with sabre-rattling from Chinese state media and some in its military establishment after U.S. President-elect Donald Trump cast doubt on whether Washington would stick to its nearly four-decades-old policy of recognizing that Taiwan is part of "one China."

President Barack Obama said on Friday it was appropriate for Trump to take a fresh look at U.S. policy toward Taiwan, but he cautioned that a shift could lead to significant consequences in the U.S. relationship with Beijing, as the notion that Taiwan is part of "one China" is central to China`s view of itself as a nation.


First Published: Saturday, December 17, 2016 - 12:36 







A new agreement between the United States and the Philippines clears the way for a new permanent American military presence across five bases that will support rotational deployments near the contested South China Sea.

The bases include:

*Antonio Bautista Air Base. *Located near the capital of the island province of Palawan, which is strategically located near the contested Spratly Islands in the South China Sea.

*Basa Air Base.* Located about 40 miles northwest of the Philippines' capital, Manila, the air base was originally constructed by the U.S. Army Air Corps before the Second World War. 

*Fort Magsaysay.* Located on the northern Island of Luzon, Fort Magsaysay is the largest military installation in the Philippines, and is one of the primary training areas of the Philippine Army.

*Lumbia Air Base. *Located on the southern island of Mindanao, the air base is connected to a civilian airport. Local media reports say construction of a new U.S. facility will begin soon. 

*Mactan-Benito Ebuen Air Base.* Located on Mactan Island of the coast of Cebu in the central Philippines. It was originally built by the U.S. Air Force before the American pullout in the early 1990s.

Antonio Bautista Air Base on Palawan is very close to the Spratly Islands where China has made its controversial territorial claims. "That puts them much closer to the scene where the Chinese are using what we consider to be illegitimate activities," he said. 

The announcement of the five bases comes almost two years after President Obama visited the Philippines in 2014 and signed a new 10-year agreement with the former U.S colony. The future U.S. activity in the Philippines may include Marine Corps units rotating through the country like the ongoing mission in Darwin, Australia.


----------



## TaiShang

long_ said:


> View attachment 361099



Mmm, looks like they really want it back.

I think so long as they use proper channels and act diplomatically, this small embarrassment won't be dragged on long.


----------



## 艹艹艹

TaiShang said:


> Mmm, looks like they really want it back.
> 
> I think so long as they use proper channels and act diplomatically, this small embarrassment won't be dragged on long.










Hindustani78 said:


> http://zeenews.india.com/news/world...be-resolved-smoothly-china-paper_1959312.html
> 
> PTI | Last Updated: Saturday, December 17, 2016 - 12:36
> 
> Beijing: China expects a smooth resolution to the seizure by its navy of unidentified equipment found in the South China Sea, a state-run newspaper said on Saturday, after U.S. officials said a Chinese warship had taken a U.S. underwater drone.
> 
> The drone was taken on Thursday, the first seizure of its kind in recent memory, about 50 nautical miles northwest of Subic Bay off the Philippines just as the USNS Bowditch was about to retrieve the unmanned underwater vehicle (UUV), U.S. officials said.
> 
> China's influential state-run tabloid the Global Times, citing an unidentified Chinese source, said a Chinese naval vessel had discovered "unidentified equipment" and checked it to prevent any navigational safety issues.
> 
> "This person said China has already received a claim request for the equipment from the U.S. side, relevant parties from both sides have maintained smooth communication channels, and believe this issue will be smoothly resolved," the paper said.
> 
> China's defense and foreign ministries have yet to comment publicly on the issue.
> 
> "The UUV was lawfully conducting a military survey in the waters of the South China Sea," a U.S. official said, speaking on condition of anonymity. "It`s a sovereign immune vessel, clearly marked in English not to be removed from the water - that it was U.S. property," the official said.
> 
> The Pentagon confirmed the incident at a news briefing on Friday, and said the drone used commercially available technology and sold for about $150,000.
> 
> Still, the Pentagon viewed China`s seizure seriously since it had effectively taken U.S. military property.
> 
> "It is ours, and it is clearly marked as ours and we would like it back. And we would like this not to happen again," Pentagon spokesman Jeff Davis said.
> HEIGHTENED CONCERNS
> 
> The seizure will add to concerns about China`s increased military presence and aggressive posture in the disputed South China Sea, including its militarization of maritime outposts.
> 
> It coincided with sabre-rattling from Chinese state media and some in its military establishment after U.S. President-elect Donald Trump cast doubt on whether Washington would stick to its nearly four-decades-old policy of recognizing that Taiwan is part of "one China."
> 
> President Barack Obama said on Friday it was appropriate for Trump to take a fresh look at U.S. policy toward Taiwan, but he cautioned that a shift could lead to significant consequences in the U.S. relationship with Beijing, as the notion that Taiwan is part of "one China" is central to China`s view of itself as a nation.
> 
> 
> First Published: Saturday, December 17, 2016 - 12:36
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A new agreement between the United States and the Philippines clears the way for a new permanent American military presence across five bases that will support rotational deployments near the contested South China Sea.
> 
> The bases include:
> 
> *Antonio Bautista Air Base. *Located near the capital of the island province of Palawan, which is strategically located near the contested Spratly Islands in the South China Sea.
> 
> *Basa Air Base.* Located about 40 miles northwest of the Philippines' capital, Manila, the air base was originally constructed by the U.S. Army Air Corps before the Second World War.
> 
> *Fort Magsaysay.* Located on the northern Island of Luzon, Fort Magsaysay is the largest military installation in the Philippines, and is one of the primary training areas of the Philippine Army.
> 
> *Lumbia Air Base. *Located on the southern island of Mindanao, the air base is connected to a civilian airport. Local media reports say construction of a new U.S. facility will begin soon.
> 
> *Mactan-Benito Ebuen Air Base.* Located on Mactan Island of the coast of Cebu in the central Philippines. It was originally built by the U.S. Air Force before the American pullout in the early 1990s.
> 
> Antonio Bautista Air Base on Palawan is very close to the Spratly Islands where China has made its controversial territorial claims. "That puts them much closer to the scene where the Chinese are using what we consider to be illegitimate activities," he said.
> 
> The announcement of the five bases comes almost two years after President Obama visited the Philippines in 2014 and signed a new 10-year agreement with the former U.S colony. The future U.S. activity in the Philippines may include Marine Corps units rotating through the country like the ongoing mission in Darwin, Australia.


*Indians are also anxious?？？？*

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## TaiShang

long_ said:


> View attachment 361100



Looks like they start to behave now. I think this small embarrassment will be solved quickly. I guess China is currently doing the required scientific tests to make sure the drone did not cause any damage to national security and environment.

Next time they better be careful about when passing through China's waters.

As you see, Global Times basically reports from Reuters.

***
*
China confirms US request for seized drone *
Source: Global Times-Agencies Published: 2016/12/17







File photo:CFP


A Chinese military source confirmed with the Global Times that they received on Saturday a “claim request” from the US for an underwater drone after a Chinese warship seized the craft *during a security check in the South China Sea.*

According to a Reuters report, the request was made after the *Chinese navy seized the drone Thursday*, about 80 kilometers northwest of Subic Bay in the Philippines just as the USNS Bowditch, an oceanographic survey ship, was about to retrieve it.

The Pentagon had confirmed the incident at a news briefing Friday and said the drone used commercially-available technology and sold for about $150,000, Reuters reported.

China believes that the incident will be *“resolved successfully,” *said the PLA source.



long_ said:


> *Indians are also anxious?？？？*

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## JOEY TRIBIANI

patero said:


> This might seem like a strange comment to make on a military forum, but would it not be better to want a peaceful resolution rather than desire mass death and destruction?
> 
> Did not the Buddha say "In separateness lies the world’s greatest misery; in compassion lies the world’s true strength".



Hypocrites . you( usa) bomb 1.5 million people in iraq .just because of the fake info of WMD and now when some one (of your size) challenged you , you are talking about peace & negotiations  such a coward .

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## beijingwalker

US wants drone back from China

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## vtnsx

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=TXo8EqC6OyA#t=150


This is the US's response to China if China continue to provoke aggression in the SCS. It's an ugly one. Not a good news at all.


----------



## vtnsx

This Chinese drone theft reminds me of the Gulf of Tonkin false flag that gave LBJ the excuse he was looking for to enter the Vietnam war.


----------



## TaiShang

beijingwalker said:


> US wants drone back from China



They may eventually get it back. It has already been almost four days since the seizure of the illegally operating vehicle.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## boomslang

BuddhaPalm said:


> I bet Duterte must be laughing. ...




Yeah, just like Hugo Chavez used to laugh. Look at Venezuela now. HAHAHAHAHAHA !!!



beijingwalker said:


> US came all the way across the oceans to the Chinese territorial waters .....



Fifty seven miles off the Philippines isn't chinese waters.


----------



## Place Of Space

Penguin said:


> China signed the UNCLOS agreement Dec 10, 1982 Jun 7, 1996 and ratified Jul 29, 1994. Subsequently, the "Agreement relating to the implementation of Part XI of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea" amending the original Convention was signed by China Jul 29, 1994, and ratified Jun 7, 1996.
> 
> Both agreements are 100% applicable.



UNCLOS is about sea, it's 0% applicable to island territory. China had gotten back those scs islands from Japan after WWII.
One of the basic rule of UNCLOS is that land decides sea. What's more, they are different understanding or application of UNCLOS, some insist 200 nm sea territory off land, some claim 3 nm, some claim 12 nm, and so on.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Raphael

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...national-waters-south-china-sea-a7481321.html


View image on Twitter






This is obviously a small-scale replay of the 1979 hostage crisis. Through backdoor channels, China has negotiated a publicity stunt with the incoming Trump administration, whereby the drone will not be released while Obama is in office but only once Trump reaches office, so that Trump looks tough. In exchange, China receives some kind of concession - wonder what it could be?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## truthseeker2010

gambit said:


> If someone stole something from you, why not ask for its return ? So what if it is nothing more than a formality and we know that the Chinese thief would not return it ? Yours is such a stupid question. That is like why bother prosecuting a murderer when nothing would bring the victim back to life.
> 
> The reality is that you cannot afford to return it lest you lose face. So it is all the more reason for US to keep asking for it.



stole? when ur in someone else's territory trying to prove that ur some worth, and when you are caught, u make 
yourself innocent..... thats the american hypocrisy........

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## boomslang

truthseeker2010 said:


> stole? when ur in someone else's territory trying to prove that ur some worth, and when you are caught, u make
> yourself innocent..... thats the american hypocrisy........



That's the thing. It's not 'someone elses' territory'. It's international waters. Plus, while china is downloading a bunch of boring oceanic info from the drone it's also downloading some nasty computer viruses for us to spring at a later date.



Raphael said:


> ...This is obviously a small-scale replay of the 1979 hostage crisis. Through backdoor channels, China has negotiated a publicity stunt with the incoming Trump administration, whereby the drone will not be released while Obama is in office but only once Trump reaches office, so that Trump looks tough. In exchange, China receives some kind of concession - wonder what it could be?



WRONG !


----------



## slng

boomslang said:


> That's the thing. It's not 'someone elses' territory'. It's international waters. Plus, while china is downloading a bunch of boring oceanic info from the drone it's also downloading some nasty computer viruses for us to spring at a later date.
> 
> 
> 
> WRONG !


and yes, US international water span across world globe.
and if same drone detected outside hawaii by chinese, im sure someone from WH will stand up and shout " this is Act of War"

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## TaiShang

Raphael said:


> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...national-waters-south-china-sea-a7481321.html
> 
> 
> View image on Twitter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is obviously a small-scale replay of the 1979 hostage crisis. Through backdoor channels, China has negotiated a publicity stunt with the incoming Trump administration, whereby the drone will not be released while Obama is in office but only once Trump reaches office, so that Trump looks tough. In exchange, China receives some kind of concession - wonder what it could be?



Only 1429 retweets?

This is not how the strongest man in the world would be retweeted.

Not presidential.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## truthseeker2010

boomslang said:


> That's the thing. It's not 'someone elses' territory'. It's international waters. Plus, while china is downloading a bunch of boring oceanic info from the drone it's also downloading some nasty computer viruses for us to spring at a later date.



Go enforce it if u can the international rules and FREEDOM............


----------



## boomslang

truthseeker2010 said:


> Go enforce it if u can the international rules and FREEDOM............



China claims the waters, let china enforce it. We sail our warships through these imaginary chinese waters every day. Chinas' navy is free to sail around the Gulf of Mexico as much as they want. If they can make it there. HAHAHAHAHAHA !!


----------



## truthseeker2010

boomslang said:


> China claims the waters, let china enforce it. We sail our warships through these imaginary chinese waters every day. Chinas' navy is free to sail around the Gulf of Mexico as much as they want. If they can make it there. HAHAHAHAHAHA !!



than stop bragging about stealing.......

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## saurav jha

SinoSoldier said:


> If that makes yours bigger, I'm glad I'm of assistance.


Hello buddy . are you in India ?


----------



## Place Of Space

boomslang said:


> China claims the waters, let china enforce it. We sail our warships through these imaginary chinese waters every day. Chinas' navy is free to sail around the Gulf of Mexico as much as they want. If they can make it there. HAHAHAHAHAHA !!



Who knows the future, maybe we will really go to Mexico gulf one day.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## boomslang

truthseeker2010 said:


> than stop bragging about stealing.......



WTF are you talking about ?



Place Of Space said:


> Who knows the future, maybe we will really go to Mexico gulf one day.



Is chinas' ships and crew capable of making it that far ?


----------



## Imran Khan

US poke nose in every corner of earth til someone chop their nose

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Place Of Space

boomslang said:


> WTF are you talking about ?
> 
> 
> 
> Is chinas' ships and crew capable of making it that far ?



Okay, we don't go to there. The best way I guess is that we ignore the USA alone in the North America. Asia-euro continent is the heartland of the Earth, in the past and in the future. Hahaha. Let you play with youselves there.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## 帅的一匹

SinoSoldier said:


> International waters, 160 km off the Philippines' Subic Bay, is certainly not China's "backyard", geographically or politically.
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, the Obama administration would probably draw another of their famed "red lines", like they did against the Russians and Syrians for the DNC hack & civil war, respectively.


You remind me of the newly American TV series 'exorcist', now Pazuzu finally shows his true face. Anyway, you are no more falseflagger, congratulations!

All I can assure you is that US government had sold their souls to devil. With God help China will rise to end their brutal misconduct around the world. US government support ISIS to serve its very dirty scheme( same as help Devil to kill people), that's a severe betray to what the Bible prescribe. God will bless China in the 21th century, and USA will be punished. USA is now like a fallen angel, conceal himself under the form of what God had created.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## TaiShang

Trump has Twitter to rant. Too bad he is not the president now. Obama needs to learn the rules of the game and sharpen his Twitter skills to respond to China's confiscation of his illegal marine asset found in China's waters.

Besides, if I were Obama, I would start defending China in response to Trump's unrequited defense of Russia.

****

Trump defends Russia, slams White House on Twitter *
Source: Xinhua Published: 2016/12/16 7:51:17

US President-elect Donald Trump on Thursday questioned the probe into election-related hacking that is allegedly linked to Moscow, hinting the White House only bothered to look into the matter now Trump has won.

"If Russia, or some other entity, was hacking, why did the White House wait so long to act? Why did they only complain after Hillary lost?" Trump tweeted.

White House spokesman Josh Earnest admitted Wednesday that the president had known about the hackings prior to the election, but refrained from acting on it to avoid being seen as "meddle in the election."

The New York Times reported Wednesday that hacker groups linked to the Russian government have been actively trying to obtain information from the Democratic National Committee since last year.

Trump's *rant* came as a deep rift between Trump and the establishment widened regarding their stance on Russia.


----------



## Zsari

Penguin said:


> If the Phillippines don't object, why can't the Americans? It is the Chinese claiming virtually the entire SCS as their EEZ, well beyond anything normally considered (i.e. 200 nmi from shore)



Philippines might have grounds for objection, but not the US as regardless whose EEZ it is, it's clearly not the US's.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Gijoe

vtnsx said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=TXo8EqC6OyA#t=150
> 
> 
> This is the US's response to China if China continue to provoke aggression in the SCS. It's an ugly one. Not a good news at all.



What will US will do to China lol, built a wall around SCS and beg China to pay for it? Will they has the balls to go nukes war? Lol, they think China don't have nukes to retaliate them? Lol, economy sanction on China lol, hey how old are you stupid? Tell US to show some balls first.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Beast

Penguin said:


> 40 miles of the Philippine coast is China's backyard? Hahaha.


Did Pinoy ever complained? Surprisely, its American claiming acting on behalf of Pinoy to conduct the BS freedom of navigation. So how does 40miles of Philippine coast on behalf of Philippine by US justify? US deserve a slap on face for so much stirring..

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## truthseeker2010

boomslang said:


> WTF are you talking about ?








This ***t that your ***king president to be is saying.......

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## LeGenD

haviZsultan said:


> Good work China. Enough time to show some assertiveness and combat the foremost tyrant of the world today. When America crumbles we will celebrate.


As an analyst, you should be more professional and realistic in your expectations.



maximuswarrior said:


> We'll see if the US can do that.


If US can cripple OPEC and impose heavy sanctions on Russia, it can do something about China as well.

I hope that this situation doesn't goes out of hand because a conflict between US and China is not good for Pakistan either.



Imran Khan said:


> US poke nose in every corner of earth til someone chop their nose


This doesn't makes sense.

This drone was not operating near China.


----------



## Dungeness

truthseeker2010 said:


> This ***t that your ***king president to be is saying.......




What does this "Unpresidented" mean?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Godman

China can capture it if went inside Chinese territory however lets say if the Drone was suspicious and if it was a possible threat to PLAN ships then capturing it in International territory has reasons



Dungeness said:


> What does this "Unpresidented" mean?



Not very presidential LOL

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## F-22Raptor

China has agreed to return the US underwater drone that it seized in international waters earlier this week, the Pentagon said Saturday.

"We have registered our objection to China's unlawful seizure of a US unmanned underwater vehicle operating in international waters in the South China Sea. Through direct engagement with Chinese authorities, we have secured an understanding that the Chinese will return the UUV to the United States," Pentagon spokesman Peter Cook said in a statement.

Details were not immediately available on when or how it may be returned.
Earlier Saturday, China's defense ministry said Chinese authorities had decided to return it, but criticized the US for having "hyped up" the issue. President-elect Donald Trump weighed in on the incident, calling China's action "unprecedented."

"Upon confirming that the device was a US underwater drone, the Chinese side decided to transfer it to the US side in an appropriate manner," Chinese Defense Ministry spokesman Sr. Col. Yang Yujun said. "China and the United States have been communicating about this process. It is inappropriate -- and unhelpful for a resolution -- that the US has unilaterally hyped up the issue. We express our regret over that."

The statement added that the US "has been frequently deploying ships and aircraft to conduct close-in surveillance and military surveys in waters facing China. China firmly opposes such acts and demands the US cease such activities. China will stay alert over relevant US activities and will take necessary measures to counter them."

A message left with the State Department was not returned Saturday.

Saturday morning, Trump tweeted, "China steals United States Navy research drone in international waters - rips it out of water and takes it to China in unprecedented act."
Trump initially tweeted that it was an "unpresidented" act, leading him to delete the message and retweet it with the correct spelling.

*Incident in international waters*
The incident, the latest encounter in international waters in the South China Sea region, occurred earlier this week about 100 miles off the Philippine port at Subic Bay.

The USNS Bowditch had stopped in the water to pick up two underwater drones. At that point, a Chinese naval ship that had been shadowing the Bowditch put a small boat into the water. That small boat came up alongside and the Chinese crew took one of the drones.

The US got no answer from the Chinese on the radio when it said the drone was American property, a US defense official told CNN.

As they turned away, the Chinese did come up on the radio and indicated they were returning to their own operations.

US oceanographic research vessels are often followed in the water under the assumption they are spying. In this case, however, the drone was simply measuring ocean conditions, the official said.

Cook earlier in the week said said China had "unlawfully seized" the drone, calling for its immediate return.
Although it's unclear what the motivation was for the Chinese, the seizing of the drone comes on the heels of other provocative incidents that have happened since Trump received a congratulatory call from Taiwan's President, a violation of the US's agreement with China's "One China policy." China publicly voiced its disapproval of that incident and contacted the White House at the time.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/17/politics/china-drone-donald-trump/


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

Exactly, so Mr President P---y grabber needs to calm down.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Gijoe

China is done with duplicated the drone already, so giving back to Mr. Trumpet can give him a good night sleep now.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## tranquilium

SinoSoldier said:


> The US should respond with sanctions on Chinese businesses or impose higher tariffs. They can't let anybody get away with theft of US property in international waters.



Yeah, and that will be different from the situation right now...how?

As far as technology goes, China's own branch of submarine drones research started in the 90s and by 2004, they are already operational. While I don't doubt the benefit of observing your chief competitor's newest technology, the benefit is clearly secondary.

Judging from the actual picture of the drone capture, the speed and efficiency of the move, it is clear that the move has been planned from the very start. Likely that satellites have already been tracking the US vessel for quite a while. The net they used in the capture actually fits the drone perfectly, indicating that they are well aware the specifications for the drone in question.

Basically, this is China's middle finger to Trump's loud mouth. You gonna run your mouth off and test the grounds? Well, two can play that game and pay back is a bitch.

Edit: I would like to point out a piece of implication that a lot of people ignore from the incident. There is a reason they released the picture from the actual drone-capture scene. The scene indicated a planned operation and detailed information on US equipment involved. This showed that China is capable of tracking minute US vessel movements, likely without the vessel even realizing it. I don't think I need to explain the military significance for this.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Zhu Rong Zheng Yang

*USN Underwater Drones were TRESPASSING 
and lurking underwater inside PRC 12nm zone*

@F-22Raptor ,, @boomslang



95+% americese who can NOT perform some basic math -- tend to be Super DUMB DUMB and Super DIMWIT in global affairs and blind and ignorant towards their own americese government Serial GENOCIDAL activities for the last 300 years.
I hope both of you are not this type of americese above.

It is almost 100% certain that USN Underwater Drones were TRESPASSING and lurking underwater inside PRC 12nm zone.

=== 

All those americese who hate PRC shall be GRATEFUL that too many part of PRC are still being controlled by those *weak Chinese slaves who are bending over backward to appease and trying very hard to please* the Hegemonic Evil usa.

If PRC is being controlled by Unbrainwashed people like me, then the usa ( Land of the Ignoramus ) that you americese love so much will be *ALREADY in TOTAL CHAOS and in nationwide Civil Disturbances and Upheavals from coast to coast*.
Unbrainwashed people like me will make certain that americese overall defense ( Military and Domestic ) spendings will *BALLOON to exceed 60%* of your total national budget.

CHINA and all pro CHINA nations will *obliterate and attack americese from everywhere on Earth* ( including from your homeland ).
Both ocean ( Pacific and Atlantic will NOT be able to shield you from our attacks ).
Your *standard of Living will PLUMMET* overnight.

U can not deny the truth that is STARING in your FACE. -- With Low Lifer scum trump in power, your usa ( Land of the Ignoramus ) *will DECLINE even FASTER*. -- Mark my words and remember my post -- U just watch.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## terranMarine

Guess Trump wants to stick to the pivot board game like his predecessor. Some said Trump would be aggressive and take on China on the SCS issue unlike the lame duck Obama. I'd like to see if Trump wants to have a show down with the PLA or just like his predecessor all talk but no real action.  I have said it many times you either declare us war based on Chinese militarization on our own territory or you repeat the same BS tactic playing the antagonizing part and then chicken last minute. China only has 1 option and that is WAR.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## 21stCentury

This will be routine so no point making a fuss out of it. What was the US thinking, sending their little spy machine to gather Intel within China's territorial periphery? This type of intrusive and unwelcoming behavior will not be accepted, Trumps new regime better take note.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Penguin

Basel said:


> kindly mind your language, you have lost my respect with that post.


Kindly explain what is so offensive about the word 'blah' (I see far worse being used here all the time, with little complaints, so I cannot really take your comment seriously)



BuddhaPalm said:


> We already spanked them silly in 1950. Let's see how the Yanks react to our merciful light spanking. The nuking of New York is just waiting for Chairman Xi's command.
> 
> Wrong. China reserved its rights when joining the treaty. Treaty does not affect the fact the South China Sea is Chinese waters.


It still means China agreed to resolve any conflicts via paths specified in the treaty. And it is not doing so.


----------



## phancong

From now on Chinese fishermen instead of catching fish for a living, they can easily catching drone and score a hundred thousand dollars catch of the US drone.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Penguin

Two said:


> Yeah, so these have anything to do with US? Oh, affecting US in SCS the military presence...


SCS is not China's territorial waters. Any navy has a right to be present there.


----------



## phancong

Penguin said:


> SCS is not china's territorial waters. Any navy has a right to be present there.


Who are you to determine which territory belong to whom?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Penguin

Place Of Space said:


> UNCLOS is about sea, it's 0% applicable to island territory. China had gotten back those scs islands from Japan after WWII.
> One of the basic rule of UNCLOS is that land decides sea. What's more, they are different understanding or application of UNCLOS, some insist 200 nm sea territory off land, some claim 3 nm, some claim 12 nm, and so on.


I think you should read some of the unclos text. It is very specific about territorial sea, contiguous zones, eez etc. Real islands are relevant. It still doesn't give China the right to snag US equipment in international waters.



Zsari said:


> Philippines might have grounds for objection, but not the US as regardless whose EEZ it is, it's clearly not the US's.


Too bad UNLCOS also outline the rights of States other than the coastal state in question.
_
Article58


Rights and duties of other States in the exclusive economic zone
_
1. In the exclusive economic zone,* all States*, whether coastal or land-locked, *enjoy*, subject to the relevant provisions of this Convention,* the freedoms referred to in article 87 of navigation and overflight and of the laying of submarine cables and pipelines, and other internationally lawful uses of the sea related to these freedoms, such as those associated with the operation of ships, aircraft and submarine cables and pipelines, and compatible with the other provisions of this Convention.*

2. Articles 88 to 115 and other pertinent rules of international law apply to the exclusive economic zone in so far as they are not incompatible with this Part.

3. In exercising their rights and performing their duties under this Convention in the exclusive economic zone, *States shall have due regard to the rights and duties of the coastal State and shall comply with the laws and regulations adopted by the coastal State in accordance with the provisions of this Convention and other rules of international law* in so far as they are not incompatible with this Part.
http://www.un.org/depts/los/convention_agreements/texts/unclos/part5.htm

Getting you equipment stolen is not part of rights and duties of other states in the EEZ, irrespective of whose it is.



Beast said:


> Did Pinoy ever complained? Surprisely, its American claiming acting on behalf of Pinoy to conduct the BS freedom of navigation. So how does 40miles of Philippine coast on behalf of Philippine by US justify? US deserve a slap on face for so much stirring..



It certainly is NOT Chines EEZ. And even if it were, there is not right to take equipment like this.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## tranquilium

Gijoe said:


> china is done with duplicated the drone already, so giving back to Mr. Trumpet can give him a good night sleep now.



Nah, the agreement just says China will return the drone eventually. When and how is up to negotiation.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Penguin

phancong said:


> Who are you to determine which territory belong to whom?


I don't. UNCLOS does. And where there is disagreement, UNCLOS specifies the path to be taken towards resolving disagreement. Stealing equipment isn't one of those paths.

On 12 July 2016, an arbitral tribunal in the Permanent Court of Arbitration in the Hague ruled that China has no legal basis to claim "historic rights" within its nine-dash line in a case brought by the Philippines. The tribunal judged that there was no evidence that China had historically exercised exclusive control over the waters or resources within the Nine-Dash Line. The ruling was rejected by the Chinese government

China has not (as of 2016) filed a formal and specifically defined claim to the area within the dashes.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Globenim

Lots of salty responses from the usual U.S. armchair cheerleader squad of PDF.  You can read the humilation out of every desperate though act post, desperately trying to play it of cool or divert attention by shaming China who just righfully protected and acted in its sovereign rights, from the same typical low IQ trolls who gloat every day about the weak paper tiger and baffled PLA generals.

Now China seizes an invading assets of the U.S. aggitators like it was nothing, when the self proclaimed expert cheerleader concensus was something along the line of China being hardly be able to detect anything made by the U.S. stealth or not simply because of Vietnamese plumber "physics" nor would it dare to prevent all mighty U.S. navy from "freedom" violating Chinas sovereignty. So much timeconsuming, opinionated foam and unsubstantial layman drivel feigned as "expertise" and "facts" and high any mighty gloating over "ignorant" and "uneducated" Chinese poster... yet reality once again contradicts the whole narrative...

Btw. you can stop spinning and missquoting UNCLOS and hyping up irrelevant foreign kangaroo court decisions that everyone knows have no legal jursidiction all over again. We all know about what UNCLOS says, what China agreed upon and that some kangaroo court can't change historical facts from the South Chinese Sea thread. Its been beaten to death with trolls insist pretending their snippet quotes and spins proof China is wrong despite being corrected and debunked times again and since months only some persistent Vietnamese trolls keep repeating the same ignorant copy paste claims every few pages... You care about an argument? Go read it repeated times and times again to the other deliberately ignorant acting Vietnamese and U.S. trolls over there. Those dumb spins are just getting tiresome. We aleady know you pretend its not and all the excuses you made up. It is and stays lawfully and historically Chinese waters. Period

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## alwaysfair

Seems like the Chinese will return the drone within a week.
If its violated their 12 nm zone then it should be a permanent seizure . Chinese should show some backbone and follow their countries laws.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## sweetgrape

alwaysfair said:


> Seems like the Chinese will return the drone within a week.
> If its violated their 12 nm zone then it should be a permanent seizure . Chinese should show some backbone and follow their countries laws.


It is besiness between China and USA, you indian better take care of your "india ocean", don't rush to kiss American ***, you are nobody here, better to sit down quietly and see the good show between China and USA.

We have ball to grab it this time, also have ball to grab it next time if they dare to come with it again, including Indian things.



Penguin said:


> SCS is not china's territorial waters. Any navy has a right to be present there.



Does earth belong to your American？ any Navy have right to present on it including USA? don’t misguide people, I know that's you like and good at that.

I don't argue with you whether military force is applied to UNCLOS, but you are not signatory of UNCLOS, even we are, but don't apply to you, so you American never talk about so-called international law, because you are the one violating it most frequently.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Zhu Rong Zheng Yang

1*) This USN underwater drone is the *latest generation* and usa *most advanced underwater* drone. 

2*) The USN underwater drones were *launched from USN virginia sub torpedo tubes* from a spot approx. 200 km away from PRC SCS island 

3*) After lurking and trespassing inside 12 nm PRC SCS islands for many days -- these drones sailed back towards the usn surface ( *pretend to be civilian* ) ship, so they can be retrieved. 

Super Dumb Dumb and Super Dimwit USN think they can fool Chinese PLAN.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## sweetgrape

alwaysfair said:


> Best post i have seen in my 1 week here. You are an example to all of us.
> What is a senior member ? No.of posts or quality of posts ?


So, what kind of post should be labeled as good quality of post in you eyes? show it to me, hehe.


----------



## alwaysfair

Zhu Rong Zheng Yang said:


> *Let me Apologize to You @alwaysfair.*
> 
> 
> 
> I am sorry. I have to defend @alwaysfair publicly.
> We have to be fair and be very careful brother.
> Please do not be careless and *we have to defend all those posters who help PRC, and we shall properly THANK them* instead.
> 
> Remember, ... ... PRC and Chinese soft power reputation globally everywhere are at stake.
> Our PRC soft power is declining week by week because of some careless posting like the above.
> 
> @alwaysfair is defending CHINA -- why are U attacking him ?
> 
> This is not fair -- and we are sabotaging ourselves.
> *Too many softies weak Chinese in MOFA are already treacherously siding with americese* usa in BeiJing.
> While at the same time, .... ... Some careless Chinese attack Pro China poster such as @alwaysfair.
> 
> Why are we stabbing ourselves in our chests ??



No apology needed. Its the internet.
But i was not defending China.
We have faced similar situations in India where western countries commit crimes here and are let off with a rap on the knuckles.
If we have laws we should enforce them equally for all. But maintain impartiality .

Reactions: Like Like:

1


----------



## xunzi

A big deal out of nothing.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## 艹艹艹



Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Zhu Rong Zheng Yang

@sweetgrape

Please forgive me first. -- I did not mean to offend you at all.
Thanks so much brother for your reply.

I totally agree, *cultivating* ( strong soft power ) in western Anti--CHINA nations are *absolutely useless *
and just wasting precious resources.
Instead, .... ...
We shall strive to *CULTIVATE* ( strong soft power ) *in *( _well known and proven_ ) *Pro--CHINA nations* such as
( RUSSIA, PAKISTAN, IRAN, CAMBODIA, LAOS, THAILAND, PHILIPPINE, SERBIA, BELARUS, CUBA,
all Central Asia nations, IRAQ, SYRIA, and so on ... ... )

I happen to travel extensively in many nations from 3 different continents.
It was obvious to me that while PRC hard power is rising dramatically, ... ...
but the PRC soft power is declining rapidly too.

===

( _let's assume >> PRC GDP is = 75+ % of Global GDP, and americese usa *has imploded and gone*. 
usa has been fractured as many little tiny states_ ), ... ...

IMHO, no matter how strong PRC economically and militarily
PRC and Chinese *can NOT prosper and thrive alone globally*.
PRC can NOT have military presents on every nation guarding PRC citizens wellbeing on other nations.

If PRC and Chinese soft power is low, then PRC and Chinese will eventually suffer repeated terrorists attacks
backed and sponsored by by PRC previous enemies ( _the *remnants of usa neocons*_ ).

Then, we PRC will become the new Hegemonic Evil americese.
I am certain 98+ % Chinese hate to become the new Hegemonic Evil americese.

Even if we concentrate on commercial activities alone,
then we will become the *hated FERENGI* ( *money driven Star Trek race* ) in the universe.


_*Hated FERENGI* ( *money driven Star Trek race* )_






Thus, ... ...
Roughly speaking, ( PRC soft power ) need to be at least equal to ( 75+ % of our PRC hard power ).

===

My method of differentiating who is Pro China poster or Hidden Anti-China poster is very simple and quick.
If taken ( *at Face value* ), their content is beneficial to PRC, then I THANK their post.
If taken ( *at Face value* ), their content is damaging to PRC, then I attacked them.

Presently, IMHO, ... ...
PRC so many problems with americese usa is because we PRC have to many ( soft weak HanJian in MOFA ) and ( soft weak HanJian in PRC Central Propaganda department ), and we have been *wasting precious resources cultivating PRC soft power in the wrong place* ( _western Anti-China nations, such as usa, uk, aussie, france, Israel, Turkey_, and so on )

If we can eliminate or squeeze all these HanJian, we can *start to be proactive and attack americese* usa -- globally from economic front all the way to the military front. -- We do NOT have to *be passive and always reactive* when facing americese usa. -- Thus, we PRC need to have a reasonably ( strong soft power ) in true Pro CHINA nations to achieve this proactive goal.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## sweetgrape

Zhu Rong Zheng Yang said:


> @sweetgrape
> 
> Please forgive me first. -- I did not mean to offend you at all.
> Thanks so much brother for your reply.
> 
> I totally agree, *cultivating* ( strong soft power ) in western Anti--CHINA nations are *absolutely useless *
> and just wasting precious resources.
> Instead, .... ...
> We shall strive to *CULTIVATE* ( strong soft power ) *in *( _well known and proven_ ) *Pro--CHINA nations* such as
> ( RUSSIA, PAKISTAN, IRAN, CAMBODIA, LAOS, THAILAND, PHILIPPINE, SERBIA, BELARUS, CUBA,
> all Central Asia nations, IRAQ, SYRIA, and so on ... ... )
> 
> I happen to travel extensively in many nations from 3 different continents.
> It was obvious to me that while PRC hard power is rising dramatically, ... ...
> but the PRC soft power is declining rapidly too.
> 
> ===
> 
> ( _let's assume >> PRC GDP is = 75+ % of Global GDP, and americese usa *has imploded and gone*.
> usa has been fractured as many little tiny states_ ), ... ...
> 
> IMHO, no matter how strong PRC economically and militarily
> PRC and Chinese *can NOT prosper and thrive alone globally*.
> PRC can NOT have military presents on every nation guarding PRC citizens wellbeing on other nations.
> 
> If PRC and Chinese soft power is low, then PRC and Chinese will eventually suffer repeated terrorists attacks
> backed and sponsored by by PRC previous enemies ( _the *remnants of usa neocons*_ ).
> 
> Then, we PRC will become the new Hegemonic Evil americese.
> I am certain 98+ % Chinese hate to become the new Hegemonic Evil americese.
> 
> Even if we concentrate on commercial activities alone,
> then we will become the *hated FERENGI* ( *money driven Star Trek race* ) in the universe.
> 
> Thus, ... ...
> Roughly speaking, ( PRC soft power ) need to be at least equal to ( 75+ % of our PRC hard power ).
> 
> ===
> 
> My method of differentiating who is Pro China poster or Hidden Anti-China poster is very simple and quick.
> If taken ( *at Face value* ), their content is beneficial to PRC, then I THANK their post.
> If taken ( *at Face value* ), their content is damaging to PRC, then I attacked them.
> 
> Presently, IMHO, ... ...
> PRC so many problems with americese usa is because we PRC have to many ( soft weak HanJian in MOFA ) and ( soft weak HanJian in PRC Central Propaganda department ), and we have been *wasting precious resources cultivating PRC soft power in the wrong place* ( _western Anti-China nations, such as usa, uk, aussie, france, Israel, Turkey_, and so on )
> 
> If we can eliminate or squeeze all these HanJian, we can *start to be proactive and attack americese* usa -- globally from economic front all the way to the military front. -- We do NOT have to *be passive and always reactive* when facing americese usa. -- Thus, we PRC need to have a reasonably ( strong soft power ) in true Pro CHINA nations to achieve this proactive goal.


Now we are developing country, hard power first, Chinese culture is different from western, don't think much about soft power in the western dominated world, western media will keep attacking and defaming Chinese untill their hard power down and can't support their softe power.

I now give up on soft power of China, I had thought like you, but feel that it don't work, even the estern countries like Korean and Japanese influenced by us, so-called soft power are much anti-China, how do you think the else? this is jungle world, only respect fist, pity weak one, if the weak one become strong, expecially stronger than them, they will be jealous, and follow the powerful state that they have got used to, attack the rising one, this is real world.

How to develop our soft power? developing economy and industry, the only way, for hard power and soft power both, soft power can goes far without hard power, the case that soft power goes further than hard power only apply to weak and small country, and it is very weak and fragile.

Soft power come out of hard power, you should know that, don't think Russia, Iran and other so-called friendly country will help you when you are weak with powerful soft power, they need protect their people first, and they can go with you, because you have strong hard power which can give them tangible help and benefits, then you soft power comes.

So-called pro China and anti China, even a Japanese perform he is pro-China, I will not thank him, I more like generous enemy than hypocritic friend in disguise, of course you can keep your view.

As to Hanjian, every countries has, for every country, the biggest threat to ourself is the internal enemy, but what is the real reason that make them choose to be a traitor, the real casue is still weak hard power, and the so-called internal traitor of China is exaggerated, and as we becoming stronger, less chinese will choose to traitor, who want to be slave of foreigner if there are much choices?

Our prior mission is building capability that sinking American 11 carriers and destroying all the USA base around us, then made more and better movies that can compete with Hollywood, We Chinese are too humble, but don't work, we should be a little aggressive if you don't want to be bullied.

I think we are off topic, but on topic, very glad that the case make American and its follower angry.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Zhu Rong Zheng Yang

@sweetgrape

South Korean and Japanese are not and will probably never be PROVEN to become the ( Pro CHINA nations ).
South Korea and Japan and those Barbaric western Anti-China nations -- will only understand PRC Hard Power.

But, ( RUSSIA, PAKISTAN, IRAN, CAMBODIA, THAILAND, SERBIA, BELARUS, CUBA,
all Central Asia nations, IRAQ, and SYRIA ) are ALREADY *PROVEN over the last 25 years* to be the ( Pro CHINA nations ).

Too many influential Chinese are dismissing and overlooking these PROVEN to be the ( Pro CHINA nations ) just because they are a bit weak economically. -- IMHO, ... ... this is totally unwise and very short sighted.
PRC shall assist these ( Pro CHINA nations ) to acquire Long Term Prosperity as much as possible and
as soon as possible.

===

STOP and Freeze all investment flows towards the western Anti-China nations immediately.

Too many influential Chinese are acting and behaving like the Hated FERENGI in Star Trek.
PROFIT justify everything.
Vuck ETHICS and vuck everything in the name of PROFIT.


_I will stop here in order not to derail this thread. 
Back to the ( USN Trespassing PRC 12 nm drones ) topic. _

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## nadeemkhan110

USNS Bowditch CREDIT: CHINFO NAVY VISUAL NEWS SERVICE/AP
Donald Trump has said the US should let the Chinese keep the underwater drone they seized off the coast of the Philippines last week.

The president-elect, who used Twitter to condemn the Chinese for seizing the drone in the first place, used the same platform to re-enter the fray later in the day.


Follow

Donald J. Trump 

✔@realDonaldTrump
We should tell China that we don't want the drone they stole back.- let them keep it!

5:59 AM - 18 Dec 2016

https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?in_reply_to=810288321880555520


7,1117,111 Retweets


23,31623,316 likes


His latest intervention came after the Chinese authorities agreed to return the equipment which the Americans said was being used for navigational work.


The incident was triggered when a Chinese naval ship, which had been shadowing the USNS Bowditch took one of the drones.

According to the Pentagon the drone, known as an unmanned underwater vehicle (UUV), was operating legally in international waters - even though Beijing has claimed the South China Seas in its entirety.

News of the seizure incensed Mr Tump. "China steals United States Navy research drone in international waters - rips it out of water and takes it to China in unprecedented act," he tweeted .

Beijing, which initially accused the US of "hyping up" the incident agreed to return it following negotiations.


Follow

Donald J. Trump 

✔@realDonaldTrump
China steals United States Navy research drone in international waters - rips it out of water and takes it to China in unprecedented act.

6:57 PM - 17 Dec 2016

https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?in_reply_to=810121703288410112


15,21015,210 Retweets


44,24944,249 likes


"Through direct engagement with Chinese authorities, we have secured an understanding that the Chinese will return the UUV to the United States," Pentagon spokesman Peter Cook said in a statement.

However Mr Trump was unimpressed by the gesture, tweeting on Saturday evening: "We should tell China that we don't want the drone they stole back.- let them keep it!".

His intervention will do little to ease relations with Beijing, with the authorities incensed by Mr Trump's willingness to hold a telephone call with the Taiwanese leader Tsai Ing-wen.

Source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...-us-should-let-chinese-keep-underwater-drone/


----------



## Jlaw

qwerrty said:


> the funny thing is american media keep mentioning that china stole their drone outside the 9-dash line..
> 
> what does this sound like to you?



Crying. Like a bully in school crying to the teacher

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## TaiShang

China should give the credit to Trump's misspelled Tweet for the eventual diplomatic argument to further polish his ego. This will make Obama and his party, which is half of the country, weak and pathetic.

Although Trump may not have good English skills to express himself in written form, he can still grab Obama and his party supporters by the 'you know where.'

Polishing up Trump ego is a good tactic to employ against him to ensure his friendship. Look how Putin grabbed him by the 'you know where.' Now Trump is more pro_Putin than most Russians.

Trump is easy to play with and manipulate. This seizure of illegal US assets in China's sovereign peripheries is a very well planned trick.

In fact, it is a text book example for multilateral strategy.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Dungeness

TaiShang said:


> China should give the credit to Trump's misspelled Tweet for the eventual diplomatic argument to further polish his ego. This will make Obama and his party, which is half of the country, weak and pathetic.
> 
> Although Trump may not have good English skills to express himself in written form, he can still grab Obama and his party supporters by the 'you know where.'
> 
> Polishing up Trump ego is a good tactic to employ against him to ensure his friendship. Look how Putin grabbed him by the 'you know where.' Now Trump is more pro_Putin than most Russians.
> 
> Trump is easy to play with and manipulate. This seizure of illegal US assets in China's sovereign peripheries is a very well planned trick.
> 
> In fact, it is a text book example for multilateral strategy.




Now this "you know where" grabber sounds more like G. W. Bush than a legitimate president elect. Is he really the best Americans can come up with and deserve?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## WaLeEdK2

@Chinese-Dragon @Beast LOL this guy is all talk. So much for the tough stance. I think china will have it a little too easy

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Makarena

China should send it back using fedex to trump's address, with a christmas card inside saying now you better behave, boy

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## BuddhaPalm

Zhu Rong Zheng Yang said:


> @sweetgrape
> 
> South Korean and Japanese are not and will probably never be PROVEN to become the ( Pro CHINA nations ).
> South Korea and Japan and those Barbaric western Anti-China nations -- will only understand PRC Hard Power.
> 
> But, ( RUSSIA, PAKISTAN, IRAN, CAMBODIA, THAILAND, SERBIA, BELARUS, CUBA,
> all Central Asia nations, IRAQ, and SYRIA ) are ALREADY *PROVEN over the last 25 years* to be the ( Pro CHINA nations ).
> 
> Too many influential Chinese are dismissing and overlooking these PROVEN to be the ( Pro CHINA nations ) just because they are a bit weak economically. -- IMHO, ... ... this is totally unwise and very short sighted.
> PRC shall assist these ( Pro CHINA nations ) to acquire Long Term Prosperity as much as possible and
> as soon as possible.
> 
> ===
> 
> STOP and Freeze all investment flows towards the western Anti-China nations immediately.
> 
> Too many influential Chinese are acting and behaving like the Hated FERENGI in Star Trek.
> PROFIT justify everything.
> Vuck ETHICS and vuck everything in the name of PROFIT.
> 
> 
> _I will stop here in order not to derail this thread.
> Back to the ( USN Trespassing PRC 12 nm drones ) topic. _


Soft power comes from picking an enemy and destroying that enemy completely. Everybody else is glad that you spared them the same fate. For example, USA did genocide on Native Americans. All we have to do is drop megatons of nukes on Japan and everybody else will recognize China's soft power.



Zhu Rong Zheng Yang said:


> 1*) This USN underwater drone is the *latest generation* and usa *most advanced underwater* drone.
> 
> 2*) The USN underwater drones were *launched from USN virginia sub torpedo tubes* from a spot approx. 200 km away from PRC SCS island
> 
> 3*) After lurking and trespassing inside 12 nm PRC SCS islands for many days -- these drones sailed back towards the usn surface ( *pretend to be civilian* ) ship, so they can be retrieved.
> 
> Super Dumb Dumb and Super Dimwit USN think they can fool Chinese PLAN.
> 
> 
> View attachment 361207


No wonder the Americans are crying like a child after a stern spanking from daddy. We took away their newest toy after they behaved naughtily. Next time we should drop a torpedo on the Virginia.



Penguin said:


> I don't. UNCLOS does. And where there is disagreement, UNCLOS specifies the path to be taken towards resolving disagreement. Stealing equipment isn't one of those paths.
> 
> On 12 July 2016, an arbitral tribunal in the Permanent Court of Arbitration in the Hague ruled that China has no legal basis to claim "historic rights" within its nine-dash line in a case brought by the Philippines. The tribunal judged that there was no evidence that China had historically exercised exclusive control over the waters or resources within the Nine-Dash Line. The ruling was rejected by the Chinese government
> 
> China has not (as of 2016) filed a formal and specifically defined claim to the area within the dashes.


LOL just a pile of lies. China already made an exception for South China Sea when signing UNCLOS so UNCLOS confirms China's ownership over the nine-sectioned line completely.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Dawood Ibrahim

*China to return seized US drone, says Washington ‘hyping up’ incident*

Foreign
21 MINS AGO BY AGENCIES









China will return an underwater US drone seized by a naval vessel this week in the South China Sea, both countries said on Saturday, but Beijing complained that Washington had been “hyping up” the incident.

US President-elect Donald Trump, who has vowed to take an aggressive approach in dealing with China over its economic and military policies, jumped on the unusual drone seizure with a pair of provocative tweets, accusing Beijing of stealing the equipment.

The drone, known as an unmanned underwater vehicle (UUV), was taken on Thursday, the first seizure of its kind in recent memory. The Pentagon went public with its complaint after the action and said on Saturday it had secured a deal to get the drone back.

“Through direct engagement with Chinese authorities, we have secured an understanding that the Chinese will return the UUV to the United States,” Pentagon spokesman Peter Cook said in a statement.

The drone, which the Pentagon said was operating lawfully was collecting data about the salinity, temperature and clarity of the water about 50 nautical miles north-west of Subic Bay, off the Philippines.

It was seized just as the USNS Bowditch was about to retrieve it, US officials said.

China’s Defense Ministry said a Chinese naval vessel discovered a piece of “unidentified equipment” and checked it to prevent any navigational safety issues before discovering it was a US drone.

“China decided to return it to the US side in an appropriate manner, and China and the US have all along been in communication about it,” the ministry said on its website.

“During this process, the US side’s unilateral and open hyping up is inappropriate and is not beneficial to the smooth resolution of this issue. We express regret at this,” it added.

*‘KEEP IT!’*

Trump, a Republican who takes office on Jan. 20, waded into the dispute on Twitter early on Saturday from his seaside resort club Mar-a-Lago in Palm Beach, Florida, where he plans to spend the holidays.

“China steals United States Navy research drone in international waters – rips it out of the water and takes it to China in an unprecedented act,” he said.

After China said it would return the drone, Jason Miller, a spokesman for Trump, tweeted a link to a news story, saying: “@realdonaldtrump gets it done.”

There was, however, no evidence that Trump had played any role. US officials said the negotiations took place in Beijing during the overnight hours in the United States. Miller did not respond to requests for comment.

Hours later, while riding in a motorcade back to his resort, Trump tweeted his second jab. “We should tell China that we don’t want the drone they stole back – let them keep it!” he said.

Trump has previously threatened to declare China a currency manipulator and force changes in US-Chinese trade policy, which he says has led to the greatest theft of American jobs in history.

Trump has also raised questions about the most sensitive part of the US-China relationship: whether Washington would stick to its nearly four-decades-old policy of recognising that Taiwan is part of “one China.”

After his Nov. 8 election victory, Trump accepted a congratulatory phone call from President Tsai Ing-wen of Taiwan, prompting China to lodge a diplomatic protest.

President Barack Obama said on Friday it was fine for Trump to review Washington’s policy toward Taiwan, but he cautioned that a shift could lead to significant consequences in the US relationship with Beijing.

“There’s probably no bilateral relationship that carries more significance and where there’s also the potential, if that relationship breaks down or goes into a full-conflict mode, that everybody is worse off,” Obama told reporters.

*HEIGHTENED TENSIONS*

The drone incident has raised fresh concerns about China’s increased military presence and aggressive posture in the energy-rich South China Sea, through which about $5 trillion in trade is shipped every year. Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines, Taiwan and Vietnam also have claimed to the waterway.

New satellite imagery shows China has installed weapons, including anti-aircraft and anti-missile systems, on all seven artificial islands it has built in the South China Sea, a US research group said this week.

Without directly saying whether the US drone was operating in waters Beijing considers its own, China’s Defense Ministry said US ships and aircraft have for a long period been carrying out surveillance and surveys in “the presence” of Chinese waters.

“China is resolutely opposed to this, and demands the US stops this kind of activity,” it said.

China will remain on alert for these sorts of activities and take necessary steps to deal with them, the ministry said without elaborating.

The Global Times, published by the ruling Communist Party’s official People’s Daily, earlier cited an unidentified Chinese source as saying they believed the issue would be resolved smoothly.



Share this on WhatsApp


----------



## Akasa

The Chinese theft of the UUV is a political message, an indication of the CCP's unease and perhaps anger with the incoming Trump administration. The best course of action is to *not* let the Chinese get the satisfaction of having the US by the balls; an UUV is essentially nothing for US institutions to design and rebuild.


----------



## lcloo

WASHINGTON: US President-elect Donald Trump got plenty of attention — but not the kind he was looking for — after a tweet Saturday calling out China for its seizure of an unmanned US naval probe.

"China steals United States Navy research drone in international waters — rips it out of water and takes it to China in unpresidented (sic) act," the real estate magnate wrote on his favorite platform.

"Unpresidented" quickly became a top trending topic on Twitter in the United States, as online wags savaged the incoming president for the unfortunate misspelling.

"TrumpSpellCheck — Unpresidentedly effective," tweeted "Harry Potter" author JK Rowling.

"Dear world, most Americans really wish we could be #unpresidented," another user wrote.

Even dictionary Merriam-Webster weighed in.

"The #WordOfTheDay is… not ‘unpresidented’. We don’t enter that word. That’s a new one," it tweeted.

Trump deleted his tweet after about an hour, replacing it with one correctly using the word "unprecedented."


----------



## rcrmj

F-22Raptor said:


> Please....the reality is China stole an oceanographic drone gathering *scientific data in international waters*. That makes you thieves. No wonder your neighbors have no trust in you.
> 
> The US will continue to conduct hundreds of missions per year in the SCS. This won't deter us.


no wonder you americans are so ignorant ``` as you lot will take whatever nonsensical propaganda that your controlled media tells you gullible bunch 



Desertfalcon said:


> The good thing is that it clears the way *for the next US president to violate Chinese sovereignty at will*. When the Chinese complain, we will remind them they it is they, who have instructed us, that they no longer have any interest in adhering to such legal constraints. It's better for everyone to sweep away the hypocrisy.


lets see whether it will come true or not````I recken Trump is a *very very very bold man*! 



Desertfalcon said:


> And yet, this time, China is the aggressor.


you sent a spying kit thousands miles away from home, doing dodgy 'researches' in SCS, and now it appears China is the 'aggressor' ? lol, `````

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## maximuswarrior

Nice one China. Let them know you are in charge.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## maximuswarrior

LOL at Trump. That is it my man. Change your narrative in a matter of hours. I like this guy a lot. He is going to serve as a wonderful president of the USA. All negotiations and feedback will be given through Twitter. Even a war will be declared through Twitter LMAO

The president-elect hasn't even entered the White House yet and every hour there is a new controversy. Not only at home, but with other nations.

"Unpresidented" LMAO This isn't some ordinary typo. This guy didn't know the spelling of unprecedented.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## BuddhaPalm

Americans jumping up and down in frustration after getting spanked in the most humiliating fashion after they boasted about their shupa powa!

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## terranMarine

I bet Trump wants to reconcile with Beijing for his "_two_" China policy blunder by telling to the world we can keep the advance drone as a gift , Thanks Donald we make sure to reverse engineer it and put it into good use.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## gambit

boomslang said:


> Fifty seven miles off the Philippines isn't chinese waters.


Basically, the PDF Chinese are saying the Philippines belongs to China just because Duterte tossed China an air kiss.



Gijoe said:


> China is done with duplicated the drone already, so giving back to Mr. Trumpet can give him a good night sleep now.


This underwater drone is COTS and cost about $150,000 to build.

COTS = Components Off The Shelf.

I bet that some time recently, someone sane in the PLA leadership finally blew his head gasket: _" We embarrassed China over something that could have been built by university students in their off days. " 
_
You took the drone but left the ship and the ship is the real treasure. The ship is where all the data resides, compiled and analyzed, readied to be studied. All the drone does is sonar ping the bottom and store it for transfer later.

This is going to go down as a major phukk up by the PLA.



terranMarine said:


> Again the sea drone got confiscated through LEGAL justification.


Basically, what China did was piracy and piracy made legal under Chinese laws, correct ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TaiShang

long_ said:


> View attachment 361208



After cozying up with Putin, now winking at Beijing? 

Putin must have really gotten under Trump's skin.

When he becomes the president, it is really gonna be so much fun. I think there will a whole new brand of satire exclusively for Trump.


----------



## cochine

TaiShang said:


> *Chinese navy marks 70th anniversary of recovering Xisha, Nansha Islands*
> (Xinhua) December 08, 2016
> 
> BEIJING, Dec. 8 (Xinhua) -- The People's Liberation Army(PLA) Navy on Thursday commemorated the 70th anniversary of the recovery of the Xisha and Nansha Islands.
> 
> *In compliance of the Cairo Declaration and Potsdam Proclamation, China in November and December 1946 designated officials to proceed to the Xisha and Nansha Islands by four warships to take over the islands, illegally occupied by Japan.*
> 
> Ceremonies were held to demonstrate that China resumed the exercise of sovereignty over the islands.
> 
> "Recovering these islands was an important achievement of China's war against aggression, demonstrating that China was firmly safeguarding the post-war international order and affirming the nation as defending its rights and interests in the South China Sea," said PLA Navy Commander Wu Shengli at the commemoration.
> 
> *Wu said construction on the islands and reefs are "lawful, justified, and reasonable" being in Chinese territory.*
> 
> China is committed to resolving the disputes in a peaceful manner through negotiations and consultations, controlling differences through regulations and achieving a win-win solution through mutually beneficial cooperation, Wu said.
> 
> He stressed that history should be respected, and stability maintained by strengthening mutual trust and deepening cooperation, so that peace and development in countries in the South China Sea is assured.



Last update 09:40 | 13/12/2016



*Vietnam opposes China’s celebration of so-called island recovery
*
_Vietnam adamantly opposes the Chinese Navy’s commemoration of the so-called 70 years of the recovery of two archipelagoes in the East Sea, Foreign Ministry Spokesman Le Hai Binh said on December 12._

_



_

_Foreign Ministry Spokesman Le Hai Binh
_


He made the statement while answering reporters’ question about Vietnam’s response to the Chinese Navy’s marking of the so-called 70 years of recovering Hoang Sa (Paracel) and Truong Sa (Spratly) Islands on December 8.

“Vietnam has sufficient historical evidence and legal foundation to affirm its sovereignty over Hoang Sa and Truong Sa archipelagoes – Vietnam’s long-standing territories.* After the World War II, the international community rejected China’s claim on these islands.*

“China’s above-mentioned activity is unable to alter Vietnam’s sovereignty over Hoang Sa and Truong Sa, runs counter to the current development trend of the two countries’ relations, and complicates the situation. Vietnam resolutely opposes that activity,” Binh emphasised.

_VNA_

Vietnam opposes China’s celebration of so-called island recovery, Government news, Vietnam breaking news, politic news, vietnamnet bridge, english news, Vietnam news, news Vietnam, vietnamnet news, Vietnam net news, Vietnam latest news, vn news

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## gambit

SinoSoldier said:


> The Chinese theft of the UUV is a political message, an indication of the CCP's unease and perhaps anger with the incoming Trump administration. The best course of action is to *not* let the Chinese get the satisfaction of having the US by the balls; an UUV is essentially nothing for US institutions to design and rebuild.


According to the civilians who operate the _Bowditch_, the drone is COTS and cost about $150,000. Something China could definitely do.

So here are the options...

- Either China really cannot build something like this and must resort to piracy to get functional technology.

- Or China is trying to make some kind of a statement by bullying civilians.

Whatever statement that China tried to make, it *WILL* backfire once the Trumpster is in office. When and how is up to US, but China can count on an increase of US Navy ships, the kind that can shoot back, in the SCS.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## samsara

As a president-elect of a major power, Donald Trump simply talks too much, and his opinion is fluid, changes like weather  if he's a leader from a small nation that may be okay and ignorable. But not from country as big as the USA. Just a weird leader.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## TaiShang

Dungeness said:


> Now this "you know where" grabber sounds more like G. W. Bush than a legitimate president elect. Is he really the best Americans can come up with and deserve?



I think he fits well. If he fits, then it means people deserve him. In their political life, countries cannot produce better than the best of the country.

Trump is one of the best in his country. With Obama, race differences were reinforced. With Trump, class differences will be reinforced, along with race.



rcrmj said:


> no wonder you americans are so ignorant ``` as you lot will take whatever nonsensical propaganda that your controlled media tells you gullible bunch
> 
> 
> lets see whether it will come true or not````I recken Trump is a *very very very bold man*!
> 
> 
> you sent a spying kit thousands miles away from home, doing dodgy 'researches' in SCS, and now it appears China is the 'aggressor' ? lol, `````



The spying could not be allowed to continue.

This is a gentle reminder and aimed at resetting the rules of the game. This is the new normal and the US has one option: To accept it. Otherwise, they will become more of a laughing stock of the world, worse than when Duterte rebuked the US for not paying off a meager 30 million Arbitration fee that the PH undertook on behalf of the US.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## AndrewJin

TaiShang said:


> After cozying up with Putin, now winking at Beijing?
> 
> Putin must have really gotten under Trump's skin.
> 
> When he becomes the president, it is really gonna be so much fun. I think there will a whole new brand of satire exclusively for Trump.


What a show!
I can't wait for his crazy presidency!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TaiShang

AndrewJin said:


> What a show!
> I can't wait for his crazy presidency!




18.000 likes and 5000 retweets.

Now he is becoming presidential.

Once he hits 100.000 likes and 20.000 retweets, then he is the strongest man in the world.

(But he needs to study a bit more proper spelling and punctuation. He needs to be at least slightly better in English than the illegals he will kick out. Otherwise, people, Heavens forbid, may mistake him for one of those illegals.)

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Hindustani78

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/587238/let-china-keep-us-underwater.html

*In yet another swipe at China, President-elect Donald Trump today said the US should let the Communist giant keep the Navy's unmanned underwater drone after Beijing agreed to return in an "appropriate manner" the device it had seized in the disputed South China Sea.*

"We should tell China that we don't want the drone they stole back - let them keep it!" Trump tweeted, hours after Pentagon announced it had reached an understanding with China for the return of the drone.

The Pentagon had alleged that the drone was unlawfully seized by China on December 15 in the SCS while it was being recovered by a US Navy oceanographic survey ship.

The US lodged a formal diplomatic complaint and demanded the drone back. The incident is among the most serious military confrontations between the two powers for decades.
China yesterday slammed the US for "making a fuss" over the seizure of its underwater drone and said it will return the device in an "appropriate manner".

Defence Ministry spokesperson Senior Colonel Yang Yujun dismissed the US allegations, insisting that China seized the underwater glider to ensure the safe navigation of passing ships.

Trump's latest tweet was the second time the President-elect blasted China for the seizure.

Earlier, he accused China of stealing American drone.

"China steals United States Navy research drone in international waters - rips it out of water and takes it to China in unpresidented (sic) act," Trump tweeted, misspelling unprecedented.

He later reissued the tweet, correcting the spelling.

Trump has repeatedly infuriated China in recent weeks, questioning decades-old US policy on Taiwan, making phone call to Taiwanese President Tsai Ing-wen and calling Beijing a currency manipulator.

The drone incident, the latest encounter in international waters in the South China Sea region, occurred earlier this week about 161 km off the Philippine port at Subic Bay.

The USNS Bowditch had stopped in the water to pick up two underwater drones. At that point, a Chinese naval ship that had been shadowing the Bowditch put a small boat into the water. That small boat came up alongside and the Chinese crew took one of the drones.

The US got no answer from the Chinese on the radio when it said the drone was American property, a US defense official was quoted as saying by the CNN.
As they turned away, the Chinese did come up on the radio and indicated they were returning to their own operations.

US oceanographic research vessels are often followed in the water under the assumption they are spying.

Although it is unclear what the motivation was for the Chinese action, the seizing of the drone comes on the heels of other provocative incidents that have happened since Trump received a congratulatory call from Taiwan's President, a violation of the US's agreement with China's "One China policy." China publicly voiced its disapproval of that incident and protested to the White House at the time. 

Experts say the seizure of the drone was the most significant military incident between China and the US since a 2001 mid-air collision between a US Navy surveillance aircraft and a Chinese fighter jet that led to the death of a Chinese pilot.

The latest incident could add to US concerns about the growing military build-up by China in the South China Sea.

China has claimed territorial rights over parts of the region but its claims are disputed. It is not clear if China claims the territory in which the US drone was seized.

China has become more assertive over the South China Sea after an international tribunal this year struck down its claim over all most all of the area.

The Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan also have counter claims over the South China Sea.

Also, amid increasing tensions, China's first aircraft carrier conducted its maiden live fire drills on a massive scale along with a host of naval ships, aircraft and submarines, four years after it was commissioned.

A US think tank reported this week that aerial imagery shows that China has installed weaponry along seven artificial islands they have built at sea, despite US protests.


----------



## TaiShang

*Navigation freedom can't threaten China's national security *
Source: Global Times Published: 2016/12/18 18:58:39


According to the Pentagon and the US media, a Chinese Type 922 salvage ship on Thursday "seized" an unmanned underwater drone deployed by the US Navy in the South China Sea. Two unmanned gliders released by the _USNS Bowditch_, an oceanographic and surveillance ship, were coming to the surface when the Chinese navy vessel "grabbed" one of them before the US sailors could, the US side claimed. 

The Pentagon said the incident happened about 50 nautical miles northwest of the Philippines' Subic Bay. *But it was also reported by some US media that the distance was 100 nautical miles.* The Pentagon accused the action by the Chinese navy of not being in "keeping with international law" and being "unprofessional," and it demanded the immediate return of the drone. 

A Chinese military source told the Global Times Saturday that the Chinese navy lifeboat located an unidentified device in the South China Sea waters. In order to prevent navigation safety problems, it "verified and examined" the device. Then the Chinese side received a claim request for the equipment from the US side. The incident will be solved "smoothly," the source said.

*We welcome that the Chinese navy is conducting regular "verification and examination" of devices dispatched by the US to collect intelligence in China's surrounding waters in future. This should go along with US sabotage activities in China's periphery. *

The US claimed that the glider was collecting unclassified data such as salinity and water temperature, which are routine operations in accordance with international law. However, this argument is absurd. 

The _USNS Bowditch_ has appeared in the waters around China now and then. It caused a dispute between China and the US in the Yellow Sea in 2002. The surveillance ship has been engaged in maritime intelligence gathering, posing a long-term threat to the safety of Chinese navy vessels, especially submarines. 

It's well-known that the South China Sea is an important area where Chinese strategic submarines conduct activities. Intelligence gathering activities by the US Navy in the region are very rampant. 

China and the US have confronted each other over US intelligence gathering in China's periphery for a long time. In 2001, a US Navy intelligence aircraft collided with a Chinese jet. In 2009, several Chinese fishing vessels besieged US surveillance ship USNS Impeccable. 

Many people worry that the US Navy has collected too much information about China's naval base in Hainan Island, and it may even have deployed underwater devices that can continuously send signals. 

The US has always claimed its practices are consistent with international law and regards maritime reconnaissance operations targeting China as a key aspect of "freedom of navigation in the South China Sea." *This is a typical hegemonic approach. It's common sense that freedom of navigation should not harm China's national security. With the increase in China's defensive capabilities, we believe such a common-sense approach will win more respect. *

*If one day Chinese navy ships conduct intelligence gathering around US coastlines and its surrounding waters, what will the US think? It's worth noting that it won't take a long time for the Chinese ships to develop such capabilities.* Does the US want the two countries to engage in offshore intelligence gathering one-upmanship? China knows the strength of the US Navy. But no matter how powerful the US Navy is, it cannot act on the bottom line of China's security. Otherwise, misunderstandings and frictions are bound to occur.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## gambit

TaiShang said:


> 18.000 likes and 5000 retweets.
> 
> Now he is becoming presidential.
> 
> Once he hits 100.000 likes and 20.000 retweets, then he is the strongest man in the world.
> 
> (But he needs to study a bit more proper spelling and punctuation. He needs to be at least slightly better in English than the illegals he will kick out. Otherwise, people, Heavens forbid, may mistake him for one of those illegals.)


From a communication perspective, you and your friends just made the same mistake that the American Democrats did -- underestimate Trump.

How many of us remember our thoughts and words in any conversation ? None of us.

Thoughts, yes. Exact words, no.

When you talk to an agent, in this case a reporter, your words are no longer your own. Your thoughts are still your own, but not your words. When your audience reads what they believes to be from you, some will know that what the reporter claims to be your words are actually the reporter's words, and some will genuinely believes those are your words. But the reality is that those are the reporter's words trying to convey your thoughts, and if the reporter have any biases about a particular subject, that subject will be tainted with that bias.

Trump is hardly a genius but his instincts are better than average. Instincts are observations and analyses working in concert. For most of us, we have to consciously observe and analyze most of the time. For the gifted few, that combination works seamlessly and in accelerated mode most of the time. That is why we sometimes compliment someone for his/her 'good' instincts.

Trump's instincts on how social media can work for him greatly contributed to his electoral rise and that rise was so fast that it shook the political and communication establishments. Trump's twitter activities bypassed any third party that can taint his words and thoughts with that third party's biases. His followers know that what they received from Trump are genuinely his and that it is up to them to think for themselves on what he meant. Trump has threatened to relegate mainstream media reporters to secondary status and that threat is being taken seriously by the mainstream media and communication experts. This is not censorship by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, it is the opposite because the reporter and his newspaper/radio/TV are censors in many ways. Trump's twitter actions are quite immediate and raw and people want that.

Mock Trump and you pretty much underestimated him.


----------



## gambit

TaiShang said:


> If one day Chinese navy ships conduct intelligence gathering around US coastlines and its surrounding waters, what will the US think? It's worth noting that it won't take a long time for the Chinese ships to develop such capabilities.



We will return the favor.



TaiShang said:


> Does the US want the two countries to engage in offshore intelligence gathering one-upmanship? China knows the strength of the US Navy. But no matter how powerful the US Navy is, it cannot act on the bottom line of China's security. Otherwise, misunderstandings and frictions are bound to occur.


Do we want ? No. But do we know how to handle it ? Yes.

Whoever wrote that article is ignorant of what went on during the decades of the Cold War, of which China contributed to the tensions.


----------



## Penguin

TaiShang said:


> *If one day Chinese navy ships conduct intelligence gathering around US coastlines and its surrounding waters, what will the US think? It's worth noting that it won't take a long time for the Chinese ships to develop such capabilities.* Does the US want the two countries to engage in offshore intelligence gathering one-upmanship? China knows the strength of the US Navy. But no matter how powerful the US Navy is, it cannot act on the bottom line of China's security. Otherwise, misunderstandings and frictions are bound to occur.


This gives you a clue:

The head of the U.S. Navy said he's not particularly concerned that a Russian destroyer has joined a Russian intelligence ship off Hawaii during Rim of the Pacific exercises. 
The destroyer arrived within the past few days coinciding with the start of the at-sea phase of the world's largest international maritime exercise, the Navy said.
"We've got to be ... alert to them, for sure, and aware ... but to be honest, (I'm) not too concerned," Chief of Naval Operations Adm. John Richardson said Friday.
"To be pretty straightforward, it's kind of what we expect, right?" Richardson added. "This is a very interesting exercise. There are a lot of things going on. We know there are a lot of people interested. Russia is among them."
Russia's AGI ship was outside the U.S. 12-nautical-mile territorial waters but within the U.S. 200-nautical-mile exclusive economic zone. The destroyer joined the Russian spy ship in international waters.
China, a participant in RIMPAC with five ships, has not sent a surveillance ship to monitor RIMPAC as it did in 2012 and 2014, Pacific Fleet said.
http://www.military.com/daily-news/2016/07/17/head-navy-not-worried-russian-ships-near-hawaii.html

Chinese navy ships off Alaska in recent days weren’t just operating in the area for the first time: They also came within 12 nautical miles of the coast, making a rare foray into U.S. territorial waters, according to the Pentagon.

Pentagon officials said late Thursday that the five Chinese navy ships had passed through U.S. territorial waters as they transited the Aleutian Islands, but said they had complied with international law and didn’t do anything threatening. 

“This was a legal transit of U.S. territorial seas conducted in accordance with the Law of the Sea Convention,” said Pentagon spokesman Cmdr. Bill Urban. 
U.S. officials said there was no known official communication to the U.S. from the ships.
The flotilla apparently traveled east from somewhere near Russia and entered the Bering Sea, navigating north of the Aleutian Islands before transiting south, where they undertook the “innocent passage” through U.S. waters between two islands, a defense official said.
That principle allows military ships to transit foreign territorial waters if they don’t conduct threatening activity. The Chinese didn’t give prior notification to the U.S. before doing so, but under international law, they don’t need to.
The Chinese don’t always acknowledge those laws, however, according to U.S. defense reports. For example, Beijing claims that U.S. warships should request permission before making their own “innocent passage” in Chinese territorial waters.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/chinese...sed-through-u-s-territorial-waters-1441350488

See also
https://www.rt.com/news/314386-amber-spy-ship-atlantic/
http://freebeacon.com/national-secu...hip-in-atlantic-near-nuclear-submarine-areas/

Clearly NO BIG DEAL was made out of any of this.


----------



## Hindustani78

PACIFIC OCEAN (Dec. 15, 2016)

Hide Caption
The Auxiliary General Oceanographic Research (AGOR) vessel R/V Sally Ride is currently underway conducting a series of science verification cruises in order to test its installed systems and ensure its readiness for conducting future research missions. Operated by Scripps Institution of Oceanography under a charter lease agreement with the Office of Naval Research (ONR), Sally Ride has multi-beam bottom-mapping and ocean current profiling sonars, advanced meteorological sensors and satellite data transmission systems, the latest navigation and ship-positioning systems and a specially designed hull that improves sonar acoustic performance. The Navy, through ONR, has been a leader in building and providing large ships for the nation's academic research fleet since World War II. U.S. Navy photo by John F. Williams (Released) 161215-N-PO203-134


----------



## samsara

*China Responds: Will Return Stolen Drone, "Regrets US Hype"*

ZeroHedge, 2016-12-17






"China decided to return it to the U.S. side in an appropriate manner, and China and the U.S. have all along been in communication about it," the ministry said on its website. "During this process, the U.S. side's unilateral and open hyping up is inappropriate, and is not beneficial to the smooth resolution of this issue. We express regret at this," it added.

A retired Chinese admiral, Yang Yi, quoted as saying China considered itself well within its rights to seize the drone.

"*If China needs to take it, we'll take it. (America) can't block us,*" Yang was quoted as saying. Yang said he was unsure of the purpose of seizing the drone, but didn't think the matter qualified as a "military conflict."

However, he added that the chances of a confrontation had risen following Trump's recent comments, which were seen as testing China's bottom line on Taiwan and other sensitive issues. "*It's natural for us to take possession of and research for a bit these types of things that America sends to our doorstep*," Yang said. "*The louder they shout, the more their protests ring hollow.*"

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Globenim

U.S.A. should behave and take back their junk littering Chinese waters.

They should be happy China isn't unnecesarrily escalating their petty invasions and demanding officially for an apology, because it was just some insignificant junk that intruded.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## gambit

I say the Pentagon sent the PLA a high definition picture of the Liaoning, complete with the captain's open mouth in shock, taken by a B-2 that the Liaoning's radar never detected.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## asia2000

gambit said:


> I say the Pentagon sent the PLA a high definition picture of the Liaoning, complete with the captain's open mouth in shock, taken by a B-2 that the Liaoning's radar never detected.


Are you saying a radar cannot detect a B2, even it can be seen by the captain's naked eyes?

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## grandmaster

asia2000 said:


> Are you saying a radar cannot detect a B2, even it can be seen by the captain's naked eyes?


Guys like this say something about America issues with the mind, the ideologies of their original country like Vietnam and aim to benefit their original countries. Their thought like those is understandable.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## BuddhaPalm

grandmaster said:


> Guys like this say something about America issues with the mind, the ideologies of their original country like Vietnam and aim to benefit their original countries. Their thought like those is understandable.


It's called "going bonkers with humiliation" after a spanking of colonial master by PLA. Really funny to see him degenerate into foaming at the mouth spewing nonsense live on the internet

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Penguin

sweetgrape said:


> Does earth belong to your American？ any Navy have right to present on it including USA? don’t misguide people, I know that's you like and good at that.


Insinuate all you like. That doesn't make you right. ANd it shows you don't have SUBSTANTIVE arguments: this is why you attack the person rather than the message.



sweetgrape said:


> I don't argue with you whether military force is applied to UNCLOS, but you are not signatory of UNCLOS, even we are, but don't apply to you, so you American never talk about so-called international law, because you are the one violating it most frequently.


I'm not an American. You could have know this, had you payed attention in previous discussions of Chinese behavior in the SCS and the relation to UNCLOS. My country, like China, has signed and ratified UNCLOS.

Again, you seek to attack the person rather than the message.



Globenim said:


> Lots of salty responses from the usual U.S. armchair cheerleader squad of PDF.  You can read the humilation out of every desperate though act post, desperately trying to play it of cool or divert attention by shaming China who just righfully protected and acted in its sovereign rights, from the same typical low IQ trolls who gloat every day about the weak paper tiger and baffled PLA generals.
> 
> Now China seizes an invading assets of the U.S. aggitators like it was nothing, when the self proclaimed expert cheerleader concensus was something along the line of China being hardly be able to detect anything made by the U.S. stealth or not simply because of Vietnamese plumber "physics" nor would it dare to prevent all mighty U.S. navy from "freedom" violating Chinas sovereignty. So much timeconsuming, opinionated foam and unsubstantial layman drivel feigned as "expertise" and "facts" and high any mighty gloating over "ignorant" and "uneducated" Chinese poster... yet reality once again contradicts the whole narrative...
> 
> Btw. you can stop spinning and missquoting UNCLOS and hyping up irrelevant foreign kangaroo court decisions that everyone knows have no legal jursidiction all over again. We all know about what UNCLOS says, what China agreed upon and that some kangaroo court can't change historical facts from the South Chinese Sea thread. Its been beaten to death with trolls insist pretending their snippet quotes and spins proof China is wrong despite being corrected and debunked times again and since months only some persistent Vietnamese trolls keep repeating the same ignorant copy paste claims every few pages... You care about an argument? Go read it repeated times and times again to the other deliberately ignorant acting Vietnamese and U.S. trolls over there. Those dumb spins are just getting tiresome. We aleady know you pretend its not and all the excuses you made up. It is and stays lawfully and historically Chinese waters. Period


Hey Cheerfull, I'm not an American nor a US cheerleader. And if I were, then all of you's are China armchair cheerleaders.
The rest of you post is so idiotic is doesn't warrent substantive response (since you make no point whatsoever)
Unlike you, I actually bother to acquint myself with UNCLOS. I dare you to SHOW where I spin and or misquote UNCLOS. 
If you wish to call The Hague-based temporary arbitral tribunal constituted under Annex VII to the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) a kangaroo court, be my guest. All you say than is that Chinese leadership has been stupid enough to formally recognized this kangaroo court by signing and ratifying both treaty and instrument.... 
Have a nice evening.


----------



## shadows888

gambit said:


> From a communication perspective, you and your friends just made the same mistake that the American Democrats did -- underestimate Trump.
> 
> How many of us remember our thoughts and words in any conversation ? None of us.
> 
> Thoughts, yes. Exact words, no.
> 
> When you talk to an agent, in this case a reporter, your words are no longer your own. Your thoughts are still your own, but not your words. When your audience reads what they believes to be from you, some will know that what the reporter claims to be your words are actually the reporter's words, and some will genuinely believes those are your words. But the reality is that those are the reporter's words trying to convey your thoughts, and if the reporter have any biases about a particular subject, that subject will be tainted with that bias.
> 
> Trump is hardly a genius but his instincts are better than average. Instincts are observations and analyses working in concert. For most of us, we have to consciously observe and analyze most of the time. For the gifted few, that combination works seamlessly and in accelerated mode most of the time. That is why we sometimes compliment someone for his/her 'good' instincts.
> 
> Trump's instincts on how social media can work for him greatly contributed to his electoral rise and that rise was so fast that it shook the political and communication establishments. Trump's twitter activities bypassed any third party that can taint his words and thoughts with that third party's biases. His followers know that what they received from Trump are genuinely his and that it is up to them to think for themselves on what he meant. Trump has threatened to relegate mainstream media reporters to secondary status and that threat is being taken seriously by the mainstream media and communication experts. This is not censorship by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, it is the opposite because the reporter and his newspaper/radio/TV are censors in many ways. Trump's twitter actions are quite immediate and raw and people want that.
> 
> Mock Trump and you pretty much underestimated him.



you are going to look so dumb in 3 years when your in a quagmire in Iran. you know it's happening.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## boomslang

gambit said:


> I say the Pentagon sent the PLA a high definition picture of the Liaoning, complete with the captain's open mouth in shock, taken by a B-2 that the Liaoning's radar never detected.



Also a good way of planting a nasty virus. 



shadows888 said:


> you are going to look so dumb in 3 years when your in a quagmire in Iran. you know it's happening.



We'll be fine, genius. No need for any 'quagmires'. If we have to bitch-slap iran, it'll be just that. They can keep their country. That's the worst punishment we can inflict on them.


----------



## Penguin

Zhu Rong Zheng Yang said:


> 1*) This USN underwater drone is the *latest generation* and usa *most advanced underwater* drone.


According to who? Source? (i.e. assuming for a moment that this is correct, how would you know?)



Zhu Rong Zheng Yang said:


> 2*) The USN underwater drones were *launched from USN virginia sub torpedo tubes* from a spot approx. 200 km away from PRC SCS island


According to who? Source? (i.e. assuming for a moment that this is correct, how would you know?)



Zhu Rong Zheng Yang said:


> 3*) After lurking and trespassing inside 12 nm PRC SCS islands for many days -- these drones sailed back towards the usn surface ( *pretend to be civilian* ) ship, so they can be retrieved.


According to who? Source? (i.e. assuming for a moment that this is correct, how would you know?)

_USNS Bowditch
_
USNS > the prefix designation given to non-commissioned ships that are property of the United States Navy.

These usually are auxiliary support vessels owned by the U.S. Navy and operated by Military Sealift Command. They are crewed by civilian mariners rather than U.S. Navy personnel, although some ships include a small military complement to carry out communication and special mission functions, or for force protection. In comparison, U.S. Navy ships commissioned into service have the designation USS and are crewed by U.S. Navy personnel; commissioned and held in property by the United States Government.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Military_Sealift_Command_ships

The _Pathfinder_ class survey ships are owned by the United States Navy and operated by Military Sealift Command for the Naval Oceanographic Office ("NAVOCEANO"). They have mostly civilian crews, including scientists from NAVOCEANO.

The Naval Oceanographic Office (NAVOCEANO), located at John C. Stennis Space Center in south Mississippi, comprises approximately 1,000 civilian, military and contract personnel responsible for providing oceanographic products and services to all elements within the Department of Defense.

The T-AGS 60 class ships were designed and constructed to provide multipurpose oceanographic capabilities in coastal and deep-ocean areas for NAVOCEANO.
On board, surveyors are equipped to conduct physical, chemical and biological oceanographic operations; multidisciplinary environmental investigations; ocean engineering and marine acoustics; marine geology and geophysics; and bathymetric, gravimetric and magnetometric surveying.
Typical missions of the 329-foot-long (100 m) T-AGS 60 vessels may include oceanographic sampling and data collection of surface water, mid-water and ocean floor parameters; the launch and recovery of small boats known as hydrographic survey launches (HSLs); the launching, recovering and towing of scientific packages (both tethered and autonomous) including the handling, monitoring and servicing of remotely operated vehicles (ROVs); shipboard oceanographic data processing and sample analysis; and precise navigation, trackline maneuvering and station-keeping to support deep-ocean and coastal surveys.


----------



## Nan Yang

nadeemkhan110 said:


> Donald Trump has said the US should let the Chinese keep the underwater drone they seized off the coast of the Philippines last week.


Then China can use it for target practice.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## shadows888

boomslang said:


> Also a good way of planting a nasty virus.
> 
> 
> 
> We'll be fine, genius. No need for any 'quagmires'. If we have to bitch-slap iran, it'll be just that. They can keep their country. That's the worst punishment we can inflict on them.



you break it, you own it. there's no "bitch-slaping" cause that went so well in iraq.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## gambit

asia2000 said:


> Are you saying a radar cannot detect a B2, even it can be seen by the captain's naked eyes?


At least not by a Chinese radar...


----------



## slng

samsara said:


> As a president-elect of a major power, Donald Trump simply talks too much, and his opinion is fluid, changes like weather  if he's a leader from a small nation that may be okay and ignorable. But not from country as big as the USA. Just a weird leader.


the more he spin the less credible person as a leader

a good leader dont just come out and bark then retreat

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Dungeness

gambit said:


> At least not by a Chinese radar...



Now yo are acting like an Indian amateur.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## TaiShang

samsara said:


> "*It's natural for us to take possession of and research for a bit these types of things that America sends to our doorstep*," Yang said. "*The louder they shout, the more their protests ring hollow.*"



When/if he becomes president, Trump should write his warning Twitter messages in *BOLD CAPITAL LETTERS *for an increased effect.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## slng

If you watch the documentary I posted, it yield the same result.
US has bases surrounded both Russia and China with everyone thought it was okay to do so.

If the same were to deploy to their doorstep, it will then judge as ACT of WAR. Bias? No? Anyone?

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Akasa

Dungeness said:


> Now yo are acting like an Indian amateur.



I'd like to point out a few observations from your very own "Red-Sword" exercises:
- the Chinese AWACS (which uses a very large L-band array) was unable to detect the J-20
- the ground-based radar was unable to spot the J-20
- none of the air-based assets was able to detect the J-20
- these simulated "enemy" assets were knocked out of the simulation before they even knew a J-20 was in the vicinity

How could you possibly expect a vessel like Liaoning to detect an aircraft (B-2) that is far stealthier than the J-20 due to its *uncompromised* VLO design?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TaiShang

Unlike what Trump says, the anti-spying operation is not _"unpresidented,"_ it has been done before but the US regime hype was not so big as this time. Such _"unpresidented"_ incidents will repeat if the US continues to spy on China's doorsteps.

The Philippines side also said hey were unaware of a US drone operating in their waters, even those China seized the foreign asset in PH EEZ.

China simply did a regional security check; PH security is in part China's security, as well.

Perhaps the seized drone has some significant data. We may find out after the drone is handed back in an "appropriate time and manner."

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Gijoe

vtnsx said:


> I'm not a VC. US nuking China is very easy. Your missiles won't even reach USA trust me. Don't be a fool.


Lol you r a fools then, have US try anything from their soil to hit other nation land. Lol, you should ask Mr. Bush about the mystery missile that over California and Los Angelos? If China toys could not reach US, are you sure.



vtnsx said:


> Older than you. I recommend you stop trolling, trust me.


We have this guy going nuts anytime soon, please help him call the mental institution asap.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Zaem

Now wait until China releases its "own" Red Sea underwater drone in few weeks...


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

vtnsx said:


> Older than you. I recommend you stop trolling, trust me.



 It is so easier to be a troll in here but coming down to EARTH, in event of an *ALL OUT WAR between USA and China*, China will as a matter of strategy should take the opportunity and immediately ANNEXED Vietnam as its former Province of ANNAM.

Trust me, it is far too easy for China to do that.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## BuddhaPalm

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> It is so easier to be a troll in here but coming down to EARTH, in event of an *ALL OUT WAR between USA and China*, China will as a matter of strategy should take the opportunity and immediately ANNEXED Vietnam as its former Province of ANNAM.
> 
> Trust me, it is far to easy for China to do that.


The only reason why we don't spank Vietnam harder already is because of VCP Secretary Nguyen Phu Trong. The moment they try to do colored revolution against VCP, we will defend our ally just like Russia defended Assad.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## gambit

slng said:


> If you watch the documentary I posted, it yield the same result.
> US has bases surrounded both Russia and China *with everyone thought it was okay to do so.*


That says much about how those everyone do not like Russia and China.



slng said:


> If the same were to deploy to their doorstep, it will then judge as ACT of WAR. Bias? No? Anyone?


If ? We will see if ever Russia and/or China are powerful enough to do something like that.

Remember the Cuban Missile Crisis where the Soviets decided that maintaining Cuba as a base was too expensive and effectively abandoned Cuba. In contrast, Japan and South Korea remains and thrives.


----------



## Gijoe

Zaem said:


> Now wait until China releases its "own" Red Sea underwater drone in few weeks...


It already sell online for $20 usd, and it is cost US that toy for $ 100000 usd. Lol, US drone only worth $20 usd online. Lol

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## gambit

Gijoe said:


> It already sell online for $20 usd, and it is cost US that toy for $ 100000 usd. Lol, US drone only worth $20 usd online. Lol


Cost China much more than $150,000 in time, fuel, and salary to stole something worth only $20. LOL.


----------



## BoQ77

Return the seaglide to US is the right thing to do. 
Try to learn how to say "Sorry" as well.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cochine

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> It is so easier to be a troll in here but coming down to EARTH, in event of an *ALL OUT WAR between USA and China*, China will as a matter of strategy should take the opportunity and immediately ANNEXED Vietnam as its former Province of ANNAM.
> 
> Trust me, it is far to easy for China to do that.



Its called a wetdream from ancient time.


----------



## frequency

This is very good news.


----------



## SBUS-CXK

SinoSoldier said:


> To be completely square with you, I changed my avatar just so I could enjoy seeing you folks lose your cool over your rather peculiar presumptions of me.
> 
> I wasn't let down.


Even if the SU-30MKI replace LCA can not change your cheap.
Perhaps India 18 million modern slaves and 60 million child labor make you so confident?



SinoSoldier said:


> I'd like to point out a few observations from your very own "Red-Sword" exercises:
> - the Chinese AWACS (which uses a very large L-band array) was unable to detect the J-20
> - the ground-based radar was unable to spot the J-20
> - none of the air-based assets was able to detect the J-20
> - these simulated "enemy" assets were knocked out of the simulation before they even knew a J-20 was in the vicinity
> 
> How could you possibly expect a vessel like Liaoning to detect an aircraft (B-2) that is far stealthier than the J-20 due to its *uncompromised* VLO design?


A country does not depend on one plane.
He needs a lot of support.
For example: Q-5, J-6, J-7, J-8, J-10, J-10B, J-10C, J-11, J-11B, J-15, J-20, J-31, JH-7, H-6k, Y-8, Y-20, KJ-200, KJ-500, C919, AG600. (JF-17).
This is not your the kind of modern slave state you can produce only the world's lightest fighters (trash).

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## samsara

*China Seized An Unmanned U.S. Navy Sub - That Was Possibly Legal*

Moon of Alabama - 2016-12-16

China Just Seized an Unmanned US Navy Sub

China just seized an unmanned underwater vehicle operated by the US Navy, according to reports from Reuters. The seizure occurred in the South China Sea yesterday, and the US has since demanded that the vehicle be returned.

Reuters is reporting that the vehicle was seized just northwest of the Subic Bay, shortly before the USNS Bowditch was about to pick up the unmanned vehicle.

Aside from the details of this case which do not yet know (there is a tit-for-tat ongoing between the U.S. and Chinese Navy in the South-China-Sea) the legal issue involved here could get quite complicate.

Many militaries and commercial shipping companies are working on unmanned ships. But there is no case law and no international law yet that is applicable for unmanned shipping. The Laws of the Sea and the Law of Salvage all consider, to my best knowledge, only manned shipping.

This spring I discussed this problem over lunch with some people working in commercial cargo shipping here in Hamburg. The first plans for unmanned commercial cargo liners had just come up (see pic below). They had no ready answers to the open legal questions.

The Chinese can simply say: "We saw a ship or submarine that seemed to be somewhat erratic in its movements. It did not respond to direct bridge to bridge bull horn calls. No crew was seen on board. We reasonably considered it a danger to international shipping. We salvaged it. If it is yours we will give it back (after a thorough inspection) if you pay us the usual applicable salvage award."

What can the U.S. in a legally straight way respond? How will it respond?

How would a British Navy Captain react if some unannounced unmanned ship came up through the English Channel? He would probably ask: "Is that ship possibly out of control or damaged? How would I know? Is it a danger to the dense general shipping here? Should I salvage it? Should I sink it?"

What would the legal answers be?

It took centuries until all nations agreed to some common Law of the Sea. I wonder how long it will take to make that applicable for unmanned shipping. With probably millions of dollars worth of cargo on such ships the problems could soon escalate.

Is it "pirating" or "salvaging" when someone enters up and takes control of such a ship? I don't know and reading the law hasn't helped.

*The Chinese were possibly well within their rights when they took control of the unmanned U.S. Navy sub. But do not expect the U.S. Navy to support that legal position. Until of course the day it captures some unmanned Chinese ship.*

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## SBUS-CXK

Zaem said:


> Now wait until China releases its "own" Red Sea underwater drone in few weeks...


China is the world's third largest arms exporter. Have their own industrial capabilities and R & D capabilities.
This is the Chinese CH-4 uav in Iraq to combat terrorist organizations video.





So now I want to know. What can be made in your country? 
So, a lame laugh at a long-distance runner up. Really interesting.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## samsara

*China To Hand Over Seized US Drone "Under These Conditions"*

ZeroHedge, 2016-12-18

On Saturday morning, the Pentagon was eager to announce that China would return a U.S. Navy underwater drone after its military scooped up the submersible in the South China Sea late this week and sparked a row that drew in President-elect Donald Trump. As previously reported, Pentagon spokesman Peter Cook said that “through direct engagement with Chinese authorities, we have secured an understanding that the Chinese will return the UUV to the United States."

In retrospect, the Pentagon may have declared victory too soon. According to the South China Morning Post, China's handover of the drone will come *"with conditions"*, adding that _"Beijing is expected to demand the United States scale down its surveillance in the South China Sea when it hands back a seized US underwater drone."_ Beijing would also _"seek an expansion in the code for unplanned military encounters in the disputed waters to cover drones like the one seized by a Chinese warship off the Philippine coast near Subic Bay on Thursday."_

Zhang Zhexin, a professor from the Shanghai Institutes for International Studies, said he expected it would take about 10 days for the drone to be returned. The demand for US concessions stems from the fact that “China is worried that there will be more action from the US during its power transition period,” Zhexin said. “Beijing will possibly talk to the US about expanding the code for unplanned encounters at sea to include unmanned underwater vehicles.”

Currently the code includes a set of standard operational procedures designed to minimize the risks of unintended maritime encounters, but it does not have a procedure to deal with underwater drones.

_China is concerned that despite the US insistence that the drone was used for purely peaceful purposes. its deployment had ulterior motives._ Zhang Huang, a professor from the PLA National Defence University, said the _unmanned underwater vehicle could be used to gather data on Chinese naval actions, and the navigation details of Chinese submarines_, People’s Daily reported.

Zhang Baohui, a China security specialist at Hong Kong’s Lingnan University, said the drone could be used to collect data on factors such as currents and salinity, as well as *special sonar signals* from Chinese nuclear submarines. _“Both uses have military applications. The first could be used to track possible routes by Chinese submarines,”_ he said.

_“The second could be used to detect and trace Chinese nuclear submarines.”_
*
“The drone is part of the US’ anti-submarine warfare.”*

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## gambit

> The Chinese were possibly well within their rights when they took control of the unmanned U.S. Navy sub. But do not expect the U.S. Navy to support that legal position. Until of course the day it captures some unmanned Chinese ship.
> 
> Source: https://defence.pk/threads/rt-beiji...china-sea-report.467091/page-23#ixzz4THb7uwHZ


No, the Chinese were not within their rights.

First...The event happened far away from any Chinese territorial water. In fact, it happened in Filipino waters proper -- inside Subic Bay.

Second...The _Bowditch_ noted that the Chinese ship have been stalking the _Bowditch_ before taking the UUV. This means the Chinese knew exactly what the _Bowditch_ does.

Third...Now the Chinese claimed...

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-china-drone-idUSKBN14526J


> ...discovered a piece of "unidentified equipment" and checked it to prevent any navigational safety issues before discovering it was a U.S. drone.


If it was completely innocuous, then the Chinese should have returned the UUV to the _Bowditch_ when asked at that time, instead, the _Bowditch_ crew reported that the Chinese did not replied when queried.

When someone tells you that what you -- innocuously -- found belongs to them, at least do the polite thing and see if they are telling the truth. What happened was not in a crowded area. It was the open sea, so all the more reason that if the US said it belongs to US, odds are very good that the thing *BELONGS TO US*.


----------



## samsara

The Chinese are right in that leaving an unmanned drone floating is a hazard to shipping - they had every right to pick up hazards.

Unmanned (no captain, no crew) vehicle on the open sea belongs to the first one that finds it. Especially if it seeds sonars and opto-acoustical monitoring devices in the disputed areas. Same happened with the W. Bush and the downed spy plane. Nothing to really worry about right now, except rhetorics.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## gambit

samsara said:


> The Chinese are right in that leaving an unmanned drone floating is a hazard to shipping - they had every right to pick up hazards.


Fine...Then why not released it to the owner when he asked for it ? After all, once he asked for it, the thing becomes his responsibility to remove it, correct ?

Spin it any way you want but only Internet Chinese will believe your argument. The people least gullible are the experienced mariners, which ironically includes the Chinese crew who stole the UUV. In other words, they knew exactly what they were doing -- theft.


----------



## TaiShang

BoQ77 said:


> Return the seaglide to US is the right thing to do.
> Try to learn how to say "Sorry" as well.



No. No sorry. Did you say sorry when you burnt down German and Japanese factories, killing people?

An apology for seizing a spying illegal foreign asset would truly be "unpresidented."

China needs to charge a salvage fee.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## gambit

TaiShang said:


> China needs to charge a salvage fee.


Keep it and consider the fee paid. After all, you could not build something like it and that is why you stole it.


----------



## samsara

"These "drones" are persistent ASW platforms. They don't operate like traditional drones with propulsion, rather they take on water as ballast and adjust their attitude (i.e. down-angle) by shifting internal weights. As the craft sinks, it "glides" laterally. At a predetermined depth, a little water is pumped out, internal weights are shifted aft, and the craft glides to the surface some number of miles away. At that point, the craft establishes a satellite up-link and reports its GPS position. Since the craft is essentially on autopilot when it is submerged, there is always some uncertainty as to where its going to pop up. For that reason, a remote controller has to provide course corrections for the craft to reach its next way point. This is accomplished via satellite down-link. With new orders (heading and dive depth), the craft comes to the ordered course and sinks, repeating the dive & glide/surface & glide routine. One of the beauties of passive propulsion is that the craft is utterly silent. This makes it an excellent platform for passive sonar capable of detecting both surface ships and submarines. Conversely, their silence and small size makes them difficult to detect using conventional ASW sensors (acoustic and magnetic). I can understand why the Chinese are so interested." - Moon of Alabama

So the relevant question here is: *"What is actually the US Navy doing 3,000 miles away from home in China's backyard?"*

Thus the snoop central exceptional nation with drones both above and below the ground are fair game for capture... just catch me if you can...

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## gambit

samsara said:


> "These "drones" are persistent ASW platforms.


So what ?

Were we anywhere near China ? What you argued opened the door for seizure of any vessel in international water just from mere suspicion. Did you even think before you post ?


----------



## samsara

gambit said:


> So what ?
> 
> Were we anywhere near China ? What you argued opened the door for seizure of any vessel in international water just from mere suspicion. Did you even think before you post ?



*The Laws of the Sea and the Law of Salvage all consider only MANNED vessels.*

Drone is excluded!

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## gambit

samsara said:


> *The Laws of the Sea and the Law of Salvage all consider only MANNED vessels.*
> 
> Drone is excluded!


Present your argument. Simply saying it does not cut it, kid.


----------



## samsara

gambit said:


> Present your argument. Simply saying it does not cut it, kid.


I won't repeat it again, just read the Moon of Alabama posted above.

Btw don't be rude, and kid me not.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## frequency

haha China just want a war. Let's give it to them! Why wait! I'm so impatient!!


----------



## sweetgrape

Penguin said:


> Insinuate all you like. That doesn't make you right. ANd it shows you don't have SUBSTANTIVE arguments: this is why you attack the person rather than the message.


You see it as personal attack？hehe, what's substantive arguments? so tell me which clause of UNCLOS china violating, armed military warship apply to freedom of navigation? hehe, you are idiot or I am idiot? ok, this personal attack.




Penguin said:


> I'm not an American. You could have know this, had you payed attention in previous discussions of Chinese behavior in the SCS and the relation to UNCLOS. My country, like China, has signed and ratified UNCLOS.
> 
> Again, you seek to attack the person rather than the message.


You are not American? ok, so you don't know USA is not signatory of UNCLOS?! do you think USA have qualificaton of judging us by UNCLOS law? hehe, freedom of navigation, guy, freedom not apply in all cases, don't be misguided or misguiding others.

As a normal foreigner, if you want to come to China for tour, it is very simple, and are welcome, but if you play as tourist in disguise, but to collect information related to nation security, we will confiscate your device and expel you, hard to understand?




frequency said:


> haha China just want a war. Let's give it to them! Why wait! I'm so impatient!!


Hehe, why feel so hilarious about the comment, a Vietnamese who had lain that bought a Huawei phone with much more money than market price that just enterred into market, and said it soon failed to work.

Give war to China? so cool, come back to your vietnam, there are huge chance, talking is very simple, don't be a coward, although I know you are.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## BuddhaPalm

frequency said:


> haha China just want a war. Let's give it to them! Why wait! I'm so impatient!!


Exactly! We committed a brazen act of war by seizing most advanced UUSV of USN under their nose. All they can do is submit a demarche through their ambassador and we told them to shove it 

Now get ready for more spanking

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## gambit

samsara said:


> I won't repeat it again, just read the Moon of Alabama posted above.
> 
> Btw don't be rude, and kid me not.


You are a kid, from what I can tell.

The salvage laws covers *ABANDONED* items. This UUV was not abandoned.

Further, to this day, China continued the lie that the event occurred inside Chinese controlled waters.



sweetgrape said:


> do you think USA have qualificaton of judging us by UNCLOS law?


Yes, because China signed UNCLOS. Whether the US signed or not is irrelevant. China signed UNCLOS, therefore, China will be held against it.



BuddhaPalm said:


> Exactly! We committed a brazen act of war by seizing most advanced UUSV of USN under their nose. All they can do is submit a demarche through their ambassador and we told them to shove it
> 
> Now get ready for more spanking


China bullied a civilian ship to get something that was built by common civilian parts. A *CIVILIAN* ship.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## sweetgrape

gambit said:


> Yes, because China signed UNCLOS. Whether the US signed or not is irrelevant. China signed UNCLOS, therefore, China will be held against it.


Hehe, first show which clause of the law we isolating, then prove so called freedom of navigation apply to military ship.

As to we are signatory of UNCLOS, but you are not, so you think you can enter into any territorial sea of China?! what a roguish and unreasonable comment, but I like that, so you want to be rogue, now we are rogue too, don't you find it is funny? 

In the thread, you jump up and down, in fact, it is very funny, I feel very good that you are active here, that indicating something, the case irritate you, bad or good, I don't care, hope you have another good day here

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## gambit

sweetgrape said:


> Hehe, first show which clause of the law we isolating, then prove so called freedom of navigation apply to military ship.


No one recognizes the SCS as belonging to China, from that perspective, the laws regarding the freedom of navigation applies.


----------



## samsara

Now let's see what the US gov/military can do regarding the confiscation of its spying drone.

After all, China is a force on its peer level to reckon for the USA, whether it likes or not, but reality is there and won't be altered by words.

Word exchanges won't change the status of the possession!

*Possession is 9/10th of the law! *The US gov or its military is terribly wrong to think China is a weak nation that it can bully or intimidate.



gambit said:


> *No one recognizes the SCS as belonging to China*, from that perspective, the laws regarding the freedom of navigation applies.


In fact only the NATO Clan plus the few claimants plus few vassal states *have been disputing* the China's claims on the South China Sea.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## gambit

samsara said:


> Now let's see what the US gov/military can do regarding the confiscation of its spying drone.
> 
> After all, China is a force on its peer level to reckon for the USA, whether it likes or not, but reality is there and won't be altered by words.
> 
> Word exchanges won't change the status of the possession!
> 
> *Possession is 9/10th of the law! *The US gov or its military is terribly wrong to think China is a weak nation that it can bully or intimidate.


Essentially, you cannot find anything in the laws of salvage to justify China's theft.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Gijoe

gambit said:


> Cost China much more than $150,000 in time, fuel, and salary to stole something worth only $20. LOL.


Oh old gambit, you really a fool. Worth $20 buck here is already humiliating to the US.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## gambit

Gijoe said:


> Oh old gambit, you really a fool. Worth $20 buck here is already humiliating to the US.


China blew more than $150,000 to steal something that is worth $20, and left million$$$ (USNS Bowditch) alone.


----------



## gambit

sweetgrape said:


> hehe, you very "eloquent", you are such knowledgeable, can answer my above question I mentioned?


What is there to answer ?

No one recognizes China's claim to the entirety of the SCS, not even the fool Duterte. And this event occurred nowhere near China but China continues the lie that it did.


----------



## gambit

Gijoe said:


> Who cares man, does china cares. Grow some balls and declare WW3, please fight one on one not pulling in 30 other nations. Lol, but now fighting China, USA need 1000 nation together to attack china. Lol....


Grow some balls and take the ship, not the drone. But of course, the PLA can only take on Chinese civilians, not so brave against American civilians.


----------



## sweetgrape

gambit said:


> What is there to answer ?
> 
> No one recognizes China's claim to the entirety of the SCS, not even the fool Duterte. And this event occurred nowhere near China but China continues the lie that it did.


Haha, you are just so-so, I am happy of you are so active here, I am happy of the case too, feel so cool and good.

As to my questions, hard to review my few comments above? but in fact, I dont care, doesn't matter you answer it or not.

BTW, I said you are rogue, so I am rogue too, feel that being a rogue is very cool thing, but you are still the No.1 bad rogue, hope ASAP, we can be bad as you.



gambit said:


> Grow some balls and take the ship, not the drone. But of course, the PLA can only take on Chinese civilians, not *so brave against American civilians*.


Interested in why you don't use American soldiers? funny,

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Gijoe

gambit said:


> Grow some balls and take the ship, not the drone. But of course, the PLA can only take on Chinese civilians, not so brave against American civilians.


So you saying USA is a big bully on small nations or country had no defenses? But they still need around 20 other country to help them fight? You also mean USA is big country on the outside, big little balls in the inside. Lol....



gambit said:


> China bullied a civilian ship to get something that was built by common civilian parts. A *CIVILIAN* ship.



A civilian ship that make US screaming and demanding for it return? A civilian ship that US could not sleep for 4 nights? Lol.....

Reactions: Negative Rating Negative Rating:
1 | Like Like:
6


----------



## gambit

sweetgrape said:


> Interested in why you don't use American soldiers? funny,


Because the mission does not require the US military.

But that is diverting from the real issue: That China committed theft and for something that could be built by Chinese university students in their spare time.



Gijoe said:


> A civilian ship that make US screaming and demanding for it return? A civilian ship that US could not sleep for 4 nights? Lol.....


Screaming ? 

What we are doing is nothing but a formality, pal.

You stole from US, of course we are going to complain. But the UUV is COTS and cost only $150,000 to make, and apparently too sophisticated for your China to built so you must commit theft.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## sweetgrape

gambit said:


> Because the mission does not require the US military.






gambit said:


> But that is diverting from the real issue: That China committed theft and for something that could be built by Chinese university students in their spare time.


You call other rogue, but you are NO.1 rogue, hahaha, we are "stealing" your the UUV, yeah, so what? bite me? we have "stolen" huge thing from you America, that's our "capability", you are so dam impotent to keep you secret, next time, when you enter our area, protecting your UUV better, that's your prior job, deploying more warships around your scout ship.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Zsari

Penguin said:


> Too bad UNLCOS also outline the rights of States other than the coastal state in question.
> _
> Article58
> 
> 
> Rights and duties of other States in the exclusive economic zone
> _
> 1. In the exclusive economic zone,* all States*, whether coastal or land-locked, *enjoy*, subject to the relevant provisions of this Convention,* the freedoms referred to in article 87 of navigation and overflight and of the laying of submarine cables and pipelines, and other internationally lawful uses of the sea related to these freedoms, such as those associated with the operation of ships, aircraft and submarine cables and pipelines, and compatible with the other provisions of this Convention.*
> 
> 2. Articles 88 to 115 and other pertinent rules of international law apply to the exclusive economic zone in so far as they are not incompatible with this Part.
> 
> 3. In exercising their rights and performing their duties under this Convention in the exclusive economic zone, *States shall have due regard to the rights and duties of the coastal State and shall comply with the laws and regulations adopted by the coastal State in accordance with the provisions of this Convention and other rules of international law* in so far as they are not incompatible with this Part.
> http://www.un.org/depts/los/convention_agreements/texts/unclos/part5.htm
> 
> Getting you equipment stolen is not part of rights and duties of other states in the EEZ, irrespective of whose it is.
> 
> 
> 
> It certainly is NOT Chines EEZ. And even if it were, there is not right to take equipment like this.



Yes, other nation have rights navigating inside costal state's EEZ, but unfortunately "scientific research" isn't one of them.



Penguin said:


> I don't. UNCLOS does. And where there is disagreement, UNCLOS specifies the path to be taken towards resolving disagreement. Stealing equipment isn't one of those paths.
> 
> On 12 July 2016, an arbitral tribunal in the Permanent Court of Arbitration in the Hague ruled that China has no legal basis to claim "historic rights" within its nine-dash line in a case brought by the Philippines. The tribunal judged that there was no evidence that China had historically exercised exclusive control over the waters or resources within the Nine-Dash Line. The ruling was rejected by the Chinese government
> 
> China has not (as of 2016) filed a formal and specifically defined claim to the area within the dashes.



Its called law of the sea, not law of the land. As such UNCLOS has no jurisdiction over land territories including islands and reefs. Furthermore, the PCA purposefully misinterpret Chinese claim of historical title as historical rights, for the prior is again outside the jurisdiction of the arbitration. For that alone would make the ruling invalid, not to mention it has number of other defects.



gambit said:


> What is there to answer ?
> 
> No one recognizes China's claim to the entirety of the SCS, not even the fool Duterte. And this event occurred nowhere near China but China continues the lie that it did.



Whether others recognize or not is not the condition for which to determine whether a nation would exercise its own right via its claim, or else much of disputed territory around the world would not be under the control of one nation or the other.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Penguin

sweetgrape said:


> You see it as personal attack？hehe, what's substantive arguments? so tell me which clause of UNCLOS china violating, armed military warship apply to freedom of navigation? hehe, you are idiot or I am idiot? ok, this personal attack.


Oh yea of little knowledge. 
1. What armed warship? The US ship? Does the designation USNS have any meaning to you?
See http://www.msc.navy.mil/inventory/ships.asp?ship=17&type=OceanographicSurveyShip
Where's the armament?






As for violated article of UNCLOS, try these:


*Article56*
_

Rights, jurisdiction and duties of the coastal State in the exclusive economic zone
_
1. In the exclusive economic zone, the coastal State has:
(a) sovereign rights for the purpose of exploring and exploiting, conserving and managing the natural resources, whether living or non-living, of the waters superjacent to the seabed and of the seabed and its subsoil, and with regard to other activities for the economic exploitation and exploration of the zone, such as the production of energy from the water, currents and winds;
(b) jurisdiction as provided for in the relevant provisions of this Convention with regard to:
(i) the establishment and use of artificial islands, installations and structures;
(ii) marine scientific research;
(iii) the protection and preservation of the marine environment;
(c) other rights and duties provided for in this Convention.

*2. In exercising its rights and performing its duties under this Convention in the exclusive economic zone, the coastal State shall have due regard to the rights and duties of other States and shall act in a manner compatible with the provisions of this Convention.*

3. The rights set out in this article with respect to the seabed and subsoil shall be exercised in accordance with Part VI.

*Article58*
_

Rights and duties of other States in the exclusive economic zone
_
1. *In the exclusive economic zone*, *all States*, whether coastal or land-locked, *enjoy*, subject to the relevant provisions of this Convention, *the freedoms referred to in article 87 of navigation and overflight and of the laying of submarine cables and pipelines, and other internationally lawful uses of the sea related to these freedoms,* such as those associated with the operation of ships, aircraft and submarine cables and pipelines, and compatible with the other provisions of this Convention.

2. Articles 88 to 115 and other pertinent rules of international law apply to the exclusive economic zone in so far as they are not incompatible with this Part.

3. In exercising their rights and performing their duties under this Convention in the exclusive economic zone, States shall have due regard to the rights and duties of the coastal State and shall comply with the laws and regulations adopted by the coastal State in accordance with the provisions of this Convention and other rules of international law in so far as they are not incompatible with this Part.




sweetgrape said:


> You are not American? ok, so you don't know USA is not signatory of UNCLOS?! do you think USA have qualificaton of judging us by UNCLOS law? hehe, freedom of navigation, guy, freedom not apply in all cases, don't be misguided or misguiding others.


Man, you are thick. I have indicated China and my own country are and US isn't an UNCLOS (ratified) signatory. Irrespective of whether the US is or is not a signatory, China is therefor bound by UNCLOS.



sweetgrape said:


> As a normal foreigner, if you want to come to China for tour, it is very simple, and are welcome, but if you play as tourist in disguise, but to collect information related to nation security, we will confiscate your device and expel you, hard to understand?


Oceanography is necessary e.g. for the production of accurate sea maps, particularly in areas that have been hit by e.g. large storms, where shift may have occurred on the sea bed. If you (or China) claim that the USNS ship was actually spying, you should produce evidence thereof and lodge a complaint via diplomatic channels, or with the international institutions or practices indicated in UNCLOS. Up untill now China (and you) have produced NOTHING that actually supports the notion that this particular ship was spying. How hard is THAT to understand?



sweetgrape said:


> Hehe, first show which clause of the law we isolating, then prove so called freedom of navigation apply to military ship.
> 
> As to we are signatory of UNCLOS, but you are not, so you think you can enter into any territorial sea of China?! what a roguish and unreasonable comment, but I like that, so you want to be rogue, now we are rogue too, don't you find it is funny?
> 
> In the thread, you jump up and down, in fact, it is very funny, I feel very good that you are active here, that indicating something, the case irritate you, bad or good, I don't care, hope you have another good day here


_
*
SECTION 2. LIMITS OF THE TERRITORIAL SEA
*
Article3 Breadth of the territorial sea

Every State has the right to establish the breadth of its* territorial sea* up to a limit *not exceeding 12 nautical miles*, measured from baselines determined in accordance with this Convention.

Article29 Definition of warships

For the purposes of this Convention, "warship" means a ship belonging to the armed forces of a State bearing the external marks distinguishing such ships of its nationality, under the command of an officer duly commissioned by the government of the State and whose name appears in the appropriate service list or its equivalent, and manned by a crew which is under regular armed forces discipline.

Article30 Non-compliance by warships with the laws and regulations of the coastal State

If any warship does not comply with the laws and regulations of the coastal State concerning passage through the territorial sea and disregards any request for compliance therewith which is made to it, the coastal State may require it to leave the territorial sea immediately.

Article32 *Immunities *of warships and other government ships operated for non-commercial purposes

With such exceptions as are contained in subsection A and in articles 30 and 31, nothing in this Convention affects the immunities of warships and other government ships operated for non-commercial purposes.

Article87  Freedom of the high seas
_
1. The high seas are open to all States, whether coastal or land-locked. Freedom of the high seas is exercised under the conditions laid down by this Convention and by other rules of international law. It comprises, _inter alia_, both for coastal and land-locked States:
(a) freedom of navigation;
(b) freedom of overflight;
(c) freedom to lay submarine cables and pipelines, subject to Part VI;
(d) freedom to construct artificial islands and other installations permitted under international law, subject to Part VI;
(e) freedom of fishing, subject to the conditions laid down in section 2;
(f)* freedom of scientific research,* subject to Parts VI and XIII.

2. These freedoms shall be exercised by all States with due regard for the interests of other States in their exercise of the freedom of the high seas, and also with due regard for the rights under this Convention with respect to activities in the Area.

_Article89 Invalidity of claims of sovereignty over the high seas
_
*No State may validly purport to subject any part of the high seas to its sovereignty.*

_
Article95_ Immunity of warships on the high seas

*Warships on the high seas have complete immunity from the jurisdiction of any State other than the flag State.*
_
Article96 _Immunity of ships used only on government non-commercial service

*Ships owned or operated by a State and used only on government non-commercial service shall, on the high seas, have complete immunity from the jurisdiction of any State other than the flag State.*



samsara said:


> In fact only the NATO Clan plus the few claimants plus few vassal states *have been disputing* the China's claims on the South China Sea.


i.e. all your neighbours.


----------



## Zaem

Two said:


> China is the world's third largest arms exporter. Have their own industrial capabilities and R & D capabilities.
> This is the Chinese CH-4 uav in Iraq to combat terrorist organizations video.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So now I want to know. What can be made in your country?
> So, a lame laugh at a long-distance runner up. Really interesting.


Be real, Chinese equipment is mostly upgraded Soviet stuff. Or worse versions of Western Equipment. 
How many succesful battles Chinese aircrafts have went throught? How many ships Chinese ships have sank? How Chinese military has been able to work together in real war? Oh yeah, NONE KNOWS. China only has equipment that it claims (surprisingly) to be "high end" but none has ever seen them actually doing anything. If you believe Chinese jets and ships are worlds best just because Chinese STATE RUN media tells you, then youre idiot. 

US is far more capable in every field when it comes to military technology, they have experience and can use it, China only has big dreams


----------



## Penguin

Zsari said:


> Yes, other nation have rights navigating inside costal state's EEZ, but unfortunately "scientific research" isn't one of them.


It is, see article 87 on Freedom of navigation.




Zsari said:


> Its called law of the sea, not law of the land. As such UNCLOS has no jurisdiction over land territories including islands and reefs. Furthermore, the PCA purposefully misinterpret Chinese claim of historical title as historical rights, for the prior is again outside the jurisdiction of the arbitration. For that alone would make the ruling invalid, not to mention it has number of other defects.


Sea begins where land ends. Various sea zones are defined in relation to land, including islands and reefs. Other than that, the above paragraph has no meaning. As nothing in UNCLOS says anything about having jurisdiction over land and the incident in question took polace at sea. The above is fully bogus.



Zsari said:


> Whether others recognize or not is not the condition for which to determine whether a nation would exercise its own right via its claim, or else much of disputed territory around the world would not be under the control of one nation or the other.


If it were up to China, it would claim its EEZ (i.e. not its territorial waters) run up to 3 nmi from the Philippine shore. As if there have been no Philippines in history, sailing out to sea. Reminder: EEZ lets you manage natural sea resources, it doesnt give you sovereignty over said sea area. It does not let you block out other nations ships, whether civilian or military, not does it let you steal stuff from them.


----------



## Zsari

Penguin said:


> It is, see article 87 on Freedom of navigation.



Article 87 or the entire part VII is specific to High Sea which excludes EEZ. Article 86 reads, the provisions of this Part apply to all parts of the sea that are not included in the exclusive economic zone, in the territorial sea or in the internal waters of a State, or in the archipelagic waters of an archipelagic State. I've even provided a map of what's defined as High Sea earlier which excludes the entire SCS.



Penguin said:


> Sea begins where land ends. Various sea zones are defined in relation to land, including islands and reefs. Other than that, the above paragraph has no meaning. As nothing in UNCLOS says anything about having jurisdiction over land and the incident in question took polace at sea. The above is fully bogus.



Funny how your statement actually supported my argument that the PCA ruling over any piece of island is but bogus.



Penguin said:


> If it were up to China, it would claim its EEZ (i.e. not its territorial waters) run up to 3 nmi from the Philippine shore. As if there have been no Philippines in history, sailing out to sea. Reminder: EEZ lets you manage natural sea resources, it doesnt give you sovereignty over said sea area. It does not let you block out other nations ships, whether civilian or military, not does it let you steal stuff from them.



EEZ allow you to exercise your law in the sea zone, where you can confiscate items from other states that violates your exclusive economic right for example to exploit the marine resources via ocean floor mapping.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## SBUS-CXK

Zaem said:


> Be real, Chinese equipment is mostly upgraded Soviet stuff. Or worse versions of Western Equipment.
> How many succesful battles Chinese aircrafts have went throught? How many ships Chinese ships have sank? How Chinese military has been able to work together in real war? Oh yeah, NONE KNOWS. China only has equipment that it claims (surprisingly) to be "high end" but none has ever seen them actually doing anything. If you believe Chinese jets and ships are worlds best just because Chinese STATE RUN media tells you, then youre idiot.
> 
> US is far more capable in every field when it comes to military technology, they have experience and can use it, China only has big dreams


China as the world's third largest arms exporter. Do you say Chinese weapons have not experienced real war?

http://www.upi.com/News_Photos/Features/Worlds-Top-5-arms-exporters/fp/3105/?spt=su

China is the world's largest shipbuilding and exporter, do you say how many chinese ships sank？？

http://www.sajn.or.jp/e/statistics/Shipbuilding_Statistics_Sep2016e.pdf

I saw an idiot...
Chinese arms and US and Russia there is a gap, which is recognized by the Chinese government. Do you understand?
I hope you see some kind of propaganda, with your head seriously thinking!
How many countries are the world's independent producers of aircraft, tanks, artillery, warships and ballistic missiles? And all can export!
Have you ever thought about it?
You can buy US or Russian weapons, but you can skillfully use it? How about weapons inventory?
Not worried about a military blockade in the real war?

China is a complete industrial system, an independent military manufacturing capacity. I'm not sure you're in a real war (such as the Second World War), weapons stocks depleted, how to get US and Russian weapons. But before that. I will conquer you. (or if the 1982 Argentina can produce Exocet missiles, history will not change?)
The real gap between people to buy food and plant food.

When you see some kind of propaganda, learn to think with your head.
One not think the cripple, don't laugh at a long distance runner.
Does Finland manufacture any weapons and export it?

Oh, by the way, tell you a secret... Chinese weapons begin to export to Philippines. Philippines seems to have had enough of your arrogance.

https://www.rt.com/news/369956-duterte-china-philippines-arms/

Oh, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait buy Chinese artillery.

http://www.upi.com/China-wins-key-Saudi-artillery-contract/74931218128855/

In 1988, China DF-3 ballistic missile exports Saudi arabia!

http://origin.www.uscc.gov/sites/de... Ballistic Missile Sale to Saudi Arabia_0.pdf

Oh, Do you know? NATO Turkey has succeeded in "Copycat" Chinese weapons.

http://www.bestchinanews.com/Military/3593.html

Oh, you hardly know anything...

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Penguin

Zsari said:


> Article 87 or the entire part VII is specific to High Sea which excludes EEZ. Article 86 reads, the provisions of this Part apply to all parts of the sea that are not included in the exclusive economic zone, in the territorial sea or in the internal waters of a State, or in the archipelagic waters of an archipelagic State. I've even provided a map of what's defined as High Sea earlier which excludes the entire SCS.


And you are suggesting about 50 nautical miles northwest of Subic Bay off the Philippines is Chinese EEZ? 

_Besides:

Article86 Application of the provisions of this Part

The provisions of this Part apply to all parts of the sea that are not included in the exclusive economic zone, in the territorial sea or in the internal waters of a State, or in the archipelagic waters of an archipelagic State. * This article does not entail any abridgement of the freedoms enjoyed by all States in the exclusive economic zone in accordance with article 58.*

Article58 _Rights and duties of other States in the exclusive economic zone

1. In the exclusive economic zone,* all States*, whether coastal or land-locked, *enjoy*, subject to the relevant provisions of this Convention, *the freedoms referred to in article 87 of navigation and overflight and of the laying of submarine cables and pipelines, and other internationally lawful uses of the sea related to these freedoms*, such as those associated with the operation of ships, aircraft and submarine cables and pipelines, and compatible with the other provisions of this Convention.

2. Articles 88 to 115 and other pertinent rules of international law apply to the exclusive economic zone in so far as they are not incompatible with this Part.

3. In exercising their rights and performing their duties under this Convention in the exclusive economic zone, States shall have due regard to the rights and duties of the coastal State and shall comply with the laws and regulations adopted by the coastal State in accordance with the provisions of this Convention and other rules of international law in so far as they are not incompatible with this Part.



Zsari said:


> Funny how your statement actually supported my argument that the PCA ruling over any piece of island is but bogus.


Real islands are one thing. Artificial islands another.



Zsari said:


> EEZ allow you to exercise your law in the sea zone, where you can confiscate items from other states that violates your exclusive economic right for example to exploit the marine resources via ocean floor mapping.


And you are suggesting about 50 nautical miles northwest of Subic Bay off the Philippines is Chinese EEZ?


----------



## gambit

Zsari said:


> Article 87 or the entire part VII is specific to High Sea which excludes EEZ.


Until the entirety of the SCS is recognized to be Chinese EEZ, the area is considered 'high seas'.

Still...Not one of you have the balls to address the issue of why the theft occurred so far away from Chinese territory, disputed or not.

This UUV is COTS and cost about $150,000 to build. Whether it is used to gather information for military or civilian purposes is up to the owner, just like how a rifle can be used to provide food or defense. If you cannot build it, all you have to do is ask and most likely the US would have given China all the technical information to build it yourself. Peaceful cooperation and all that stuff.

No need to be thuggish about it, unless China feels the need to show the world that her sailors are tough -- against civilians.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Penguin

It is exactly like what the Russian are doing: there is propaganda value in this. "Oh look how tough we are, the US can't touch us'" on minor thinngs... but in reality the true professionals are shown to be the US crews. Each such incident to me is 'Chinese lost face"


----------



## Zsari

Penguin said:


> And you are suggesting about 50 nautical miles northwest of Subic Bay off the Philippines is Chinese EEZ?
> 
> _Besides:
> 
> Article86 Application of the provisions of this Part
> 
> The provisions of this Part apply to all parts of the sea that are not included in the exclusive economic zone, in the territorial sea or in the internal waters of a State, or in the archipelagic waters of an archipelagic State. * This article does not entail any abridgement of the freedoms enjoyed by all States in the exclusive economic zone in accordance with article 58.*
> 
> Article58 _Rights and duties of other States in the exclusive economic zone
> 
> 1. In the exclusive economic zone,* all States*, whether coastal or land-locked, *enjoy*, subject to the relevant provisions of this Convention, *the freedoms referred to in article 87 of navigation and overflight and of the laying of submarine cables and pipelines, and other internationally lawful uses of the sea related to these freedoms*, such as those associated with the operation of ships, aircraft and submarine cables and pipelines, and compatible with the other provisions of this Convention.
> 
> 2. Articles 88 to 115 and other pertinent rules of international law apply to the exclusive economic zone in so far as they are not incompatible with this Part.
> 
> 3. In exercising their rights and performing their duties under this Convention in the exclusive economic zone, States shall have due regard to the rights and duties of the coastal State and shall comply with the laws and regulations adopted by the coastal State in accordance with the provisions of this Convention and other rules of international law in so far as they are not incompatible with this Part.
> 
> 
> Real islands are one thing. Artificial islands another.
> 
> 
> And you are suggesting about 50 nautical miles northwest of Subic Bay off the Philippines is Chinese EEZ?



As I've already pointed out, none that you've listed and highlighted include the right for "scientific research". Read Article 246 in regards to marine research.
As for the location, Chinese claim is that of historic title, which goes far beyond the rights of EEZ.



gambit said:


> Until the entirety of the SCS is recognized to be Chinese EEZ, the area is considered 'high seas'.



Wrong. It doesn't have to be recognized as Chinese EEZ, but rather anyone's EEZ for it to be outside the definition of what is High Sea.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Penguin

"The UUV was lawfully conducting a military survey in the waters of the South China Sea," one official said, speaking on condition of anonymity. "It's a sovereign immune vessel, clearly marked in English not to be removed from the water - that it was U.S. property," the official said. The Pentagon confirmed the incident at a news briefing and said the drone used commercially available technology and sold for about $150,000.
*http://www.cnbc.com/2016/12/16/china-has-seized-an-unmanned-us-navy-vehicle-in-south-china-sea.html*

*What is an 'ocean glider'?*
An ocean glider is an autonomous underwater vehicle used to collect ocean data.
http://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/ocean-gliders.html

*Slocum Sub-surface Electric Gliders*
The Slocum electric glider can be deployed for up to thirty days and travel up to 1500-km (longer using Lithium batteries) collecting scientific data from depths of 5 to 1000m.
http://www.pmel.noaa.gov/edd/slocum-sub-surface-electric-gliders
See also http://rasc.usc.edu/slocum-glider.html

Slocum Service provision for a number of countries in the Asia – Pacific (APAC) region includes Australia, Brunei, Cambodia, East Timor, Indonesia, Malaysia, New Zealand, Philippines, Papua New Guinea, Singapore, Thailand, Vietnam, Myanmar, and Laos. Blue Ocean Monitoring (Services) is the exclusive third party Slocum Service provider for this region.
http://www.teledynemarine.com/press-releases/slocum-glider-service-expansion-asia-pacific

Potential future uses:
http://swampland.time.com/2013/12/22/navy-underwater-drone/
http://www.businessinsider.com/navy-underwater-drone-slocum-2014-1?international=true&r=US&IR=T


----------



## gambit

Zsari said:


> Wrong. It doesn't have to be recognized as Chinese EEZ, but rather anyone's EEZ for it to be outside the definition of what is High Sea.


Fine...Then show us who else claimed the entirety of the SCS as own EEZ. As long as there is even one conflicting/contesting claim, the entire area is open for various maritime operations. So in this case, China cannot use violation of her EEZ to justify theft on the high seas.


----------



## Penguin

Zsari said:


> As I've already pointed out, none that you've listed and highlighted include the right for "scientific research". Read Article 246 in regards to marine research.
> As for the location, Chinese claim is that of historic title, which goes far beyond the rights of EEZ.



*Article87*
_

Freedom of the high seas
_
1. The high seas are open to all States, whether coastal or land-locked. Freedom of the high seas is exercised under the conditions laid down by this Convention and by other rules of international law. It comprises, _inter alia_, both for coastal and land-locked States:

(a) freedom of navigation;

(b) freedom of overflight;

(c) freedom to lay submarine cables and pipelines, subject to Part VI;

(d) freedom to construct artificial islands and other installations permitted under international law, subject to Part VI;

(e) freedom of fishing, subject to the conditions laid down in section 2;

(f)* freedom of scientific research*, subject to Parts VI and XIII.

_
Part XIII

Article 238 _Right to conduct marine scientific research

All States, irrespective of their geographical location, and competent international organizations have the right to conduct marine scientific research subject to the rights and duties of other States as provided for in this Convention.

NOW, as for 246: 50 nautical miles northwest of Subic Bay off the Philippinesis not Chinese EEZ
_
Article 246


Marine scientific research in the exclusive economic zone

and on the continental shelf
_
1.* Coastal States, in the exercise of their jurisdiction, have the right to regulate, authorize and conduct marine scientific research in their exclusive economic zone *and on their continental shelf in accordance with the relevant provisions of this Convention.

2.* Marine scientific research in the exclusive economic zone and on the continental shelf shall be conducted with the consent of the coastal State.*

3.* Coastal States shall, in normal circumstances, grant their consent for marine scientific research projects by other States or competent international organizations in their exclusive economic zone or on their continental shelf to be carried out in accordance with this Convention exclusively for peaceful purposes and in order to increase scientific knowledge of the marine environment for the benefit of all mankind. To this end, coastal States shall establish rules and procedures ensuring that such consent will not be delayed or denied unreasonably.*

4. For the purposes of applying paragraph 3, normal circumstances may exist in spite of the absence of diplomatic relations between the coastal State and the researching State.

5.* Coastal States may however in their discretion withhold their consent *to the conduct of a marine scientific research project of another State or competent international organization in the exclusive economic zone or on the continental shelf of the coastal State *if* that project:

(a) is of direct significance for the exploration and exploitation of natural resources, whether living or non-living;

(b) involves drilling into the continental shelf, the use of explosives or the introduction of harmful substances into the marine environment;

(c) involves the construction, operation or use of artificial islands, installations and structures referred to in articles 60 and 80;

(d) contains information communicated pursuant to article 248 regarding the nature and objectives of the project which is inaccurate or if the researching State or competent international organization has outstanding obligations to the coastal State from a prior research project.

*6. Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraph 5, coastal States may not exercise their discretion to withhold consent under subparagraph (a) of that paragraph in respect of marine scientific research projects to be undertaken in accordance with the provisions of this Part on the continental shelf, beyond 200 nautical miles from the baselines from which the breadth of the territorial sea is measured, outside those specific areas which coastal States may at any time publicly designate as areas in which exploitation or detailed exploratory operations focused on those areas are occurring or will occur within a reasonable period of time. Coastal States shall give reasonable notice of the designation of such areas, as well as any modifications thereto, but shall not be obliged to give details of the operations therein.*

7. The provisions of paragraph 6 are without prejudice to the rights of coastal States over the continental shelf as established in article 77.

8. Marine scientific research activities referred to in this article shall not unjustifiably interfere with activities undertaken by coastal States in the exercise of their sovereign rights and jurisdiction provided for in this Convention.

NOWHERE DOES THIS STATE THERE IS A RIGHT TO TAKE EQUIPMENT.



Zsari said:


> Wrong. It doesn't have to be recognized as Chinese EEZ, but rather anyone's EEZ for it to be outside the definition of what is High Sea.


Let's views this as being Philippine EEZ, what rights does that give a Chinese naval ships to operating in Philippine EEZ and to confiscate (steal) equipment, if the Philippines have given consent?


----------



## jhungary

Zsari said:


> Article 87 or the entire part VII is specific to High Sea which excludes EEZ. Article 86 reads, the provisions of this Part apply to all parts of the sea that are not included in the exclusive economic zone, in the territorial sea or in the internal waters of a State, or in the archipelagic waters of an archipelagic State. I've even provided a map of what's defined as High Sea earlier which excludes the entire SCS.
> .



Actually, it does. Article 58 of UNCLOS defining Exclusive Economic Zone give the right of other nation set forth by Article 87.

https://www.un.org/depts/los/convention_agreements/texts/unclos/part5.htm

Article58

Rights and duties of other States in the exclusive economic zone

1. *In the exclusive economic zone, **all States**, whether coastal or land-locked, **enjoy**,* subject to the relevant provisions of this Convention*, **the freedoms referred to in article 87** of navigation and overflight and of the laying of submarine cables and pipelines*, and other internationally lawful uses of the sea related to these freedoms, such as those associated with the operation of ships, aircraft and submarine cables and pipelines, and compatible with the other provisions of this Convention.

2. Articles 88 to 115 and other pertinent rules of international law apply to the exclusive economic zone in so far as they are not incompatible with this Part.

3. In exercising their rights and performing their duties under this Convention in the exclusive economic zone, States shall have due regard to the rights and duties of the coastal State and shall comply with the laws and regulations adopted by the coastal State in accordance with the provisions of this Convention and other rules of international law in so far as they are not incompatible with this Part.

Article 87
http://www.un.org/Depts/los/convention_agreements/texts/unclos/part7.htm

1. The high seas are open to all States, whether coastal or land-locked. Freedom of the high seas is exercised under the conditions laid down by this Convention and by other rules of international law. It comprises, _inter alia_, both for coastal and land-locked States:

(a) freedom of navigation;

(b) freedom of overflight;

(c) freedom to lay submarine cables and pipelines, subject to Part VI;

(d) freedom to construct artificial islands and other installations permitted under international law, subject to Part VI;

(e) freedom of fishing, subject to the conditions laid down in section 2;

*(f) freedom of scientific research, subject to Parts VI and XIII.*

2. These freedoms shall be exercised by all States with due regard for the interests of other States in their exercise of the freedom of the high seas, and also with due regard for the rights under this Convention with respect to activities in the Area.

Even so, I don't think UN regonize that spot as China EEZ, so all these is basically a moot point

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## BoQ77

China didnt argue that way, they simply return the AUV immediately.
That tells something.

An apology is recommended for a perfect end.

Disappointed to see they wasted the budget that way to ignite this potential crisis.

But disappointed more to see they didnt use an apology which cost None to end this.

Reactions: Like Like:

1


----------



## Zsari

gambit said:


> Fine...Then show us who else claimed the entirety of the SCS as own EEZ. As long as there is even one conflicting/contesting claim, the entire area is open for various maritime operations. So in this case, China cannot use violation of her EEZ to justify theft on the high seas.



Wrong. Claim and counter claim doesn't make the area open to others, as the dispute is purely between the parties involved, just as any territorial dispute between neighbors won't make that territory open for third party acquisition. As a third party not involved in the dispute, you can either pick a side and comply with that state's regulation, or if you claim to be neutral, then you need to comply with the relevant laws of both claimants. Thus far, the US has claimed to be neutral.



Penguin said:


> *Article87*
> _
> 
> Freedom of the high seas
> _
> 1. The high seas are open to all States, whether coastal or land-locked. Freedom of the high seas is exercised under the conditions laid down by this Convention and by other rules of international law. It comprises, _inter alia_, both for coastal and land-locked States:
> 
> (a) freedom of navigation;
> 
> (b) freedom of overflight;
> 
> (c) freedom to lay submarine cables and pipelines, subject to Part VI;
> 
> (d) freedom to construct artificial islands and other installations permitted under international law, subject to Part VI;
> 
> (e) freedom of fishing, subject to the conditions laid down in section 2;
> 
> (f)* freedom of scientific research*, subject to Parts VI and XIII.
> 
> _
> Part XIII
> 
> Article 238 _Right to conduct marine scientific research
> 
> All States, irrespective of their geographical location, and competent international organizations have the right to conduct marine scientific research subject to the rights and duties of other States as provided for in this Convention.
> 
> NOW, as for 246: 50 nautical miles northwest of Subic Bay off the Philippinesis not Chinese EEZ
> _
> Article 246
> 
> 
> Marine scientific research in the exclusive economic zone
> 
> and on the continental shelf
> _
> 1.* Coastal States, in the exercise of their jurisdiction, have the right to regulate, authorize and conduct marine scientific research in their exclusive economic zone *and on their continental shelf in accordance with the relevant provisions of this Convention.
> 
> 2.* Marine scientific research in the exclusive economic zone and on the continental shelf shall be conducted with the consent of the coastal State.*
> 
> 3.* Coastal States shall, in normal circumstances, grant their consent for marine scientific research projects by other States or competent international organizations in their exclusive economic zone or on their continental shelf to be carried out in accordance with this Convention exclusively for peaceful purposes and in order to increase scientific knowledge of the marine environment for the benefit of all mankind. To this end, coastal States shall establish rules and procedures ensuring that such consent will not be delayed or denied unreasonably.*
> 
> 4. For the purposes of applying paragraph 3, normal circumstances may exist in spite of the absence of diplomatic relations between the coastal State and the researching State.
> 
> 5.* Coastal States may however in their discretion withhold their consent *to the conduct of a marine scientific research project of another State or competent international organization in the exclusive economic zone or on the continental shelf of the coastal State *if* that project:
> 
> (a) is of direct significance for the exploration and exploitation of natural resources, whether living or non-living;
> 
> (b) involves drilling into the continental shelf, the use of explosives or the introduction of harmful substances into the marine environment;
> 
> (c) involves the construction, operation or use of artificial islands, installations and structures referred to in articles 60 and 80;
> 
> (d) contains information communicated pursuant to article 248 regarding the nature and objectives of the project which is inaccurate or if the researching State or competent international organization has outstanding obligations to the coastal State from a prior research project.
> 
> *6. Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraph 5, coastal States may not exercise their discretion to withhold consent under subparagraph (a) of that paragraph in respect of marine scientific research projects to be undertaken in accordance with the provisions of this Part on the continental shelf, beyond 200 nautical miles from the baselines from which the breadth of the territorial sea is measured, outside those specific areas which coastal States may at any time publicly designate as areas in which exploitation or detailed exploratory operations focused on those areas are occurring or will occur within a reasonable period of time. Coastal States shall give reasonable notice of the designation of such areas, as well as any modifications thereto, but shall not be obliged to give details of the operations therein.*
> 
> 7. The provisions of paragraph 6 are without prejudice to the rights of coastal States over the continental shelf as established in article 77.
> 
> 8. Marine scientific research activities referred to in this article shall not unjustifiably interfere with activities undertaken by coastal States in the exercise of their sovereign rights and jurisdiction provided for in this Convention.
> 
> NOWHERE DOES THIS STATE THERE IS A RIGHT TO TAKE EQUIPMENT.
> 
> 
> Let's views this as being Philippine EEZ, what rights does that give a Chinese naval ships to operating in Philippine EEZ and to confiscate (steal) equipment, if the Philippines have given consent?



You are going around in circle. South China Sea is not HIGH SEA, even if you argue for Philippine's EEZ, the restriction on "scientific research" still applies. Mind you, but Philippine has made their statement that they have no knowledge of the US operation, nor do they object to Chinese naval conduct there. Moreover, the drone operation were not only the very definition of exploration of natural resrouces in other's EEZ, but also a military operation that directly violated the very condition laid out by the article as exclusively for peaceful purposes. That single fact alone make the operation and the drone outside the framework allowed for by UNCLOS.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## TaiShang

BoQ77 said:


> China didnt argue that way, they simply return the AUV immediately.
> That tells something.
> 
> An apology is recommended for a perfect end.
> 
> Disappointed to see they wasted the budget that way to ignite this potential crisis.
> 
> But disappointed more to see they didnt use an apology which cost None to end this.



You sad?

That's unpresidented.

***

*Op-Ed: Underwater drone just a sample of US military action against China*

By Hua Yiwen (People's Daily Online) December 19, 2016







_File Photo_

The U.S. unmanned navy vehicle in the South China Sea has quickly become the focus of international attention. President-elect Donald Trump participated in this public discussion through Twitter, first accusing China of stealing the unmanned underwater vehicle (UUV), and then saying that China can “keep it.”

In recent years, the U.S. has tried to strategically contain China through the South China Sea issue.* In this case, the U.S. claimed that the UUV was collecting “military oceanographic data” in international waters "according to international law.”* Reports stated that China found the device in its territorial waters in the South China Sea, thus earning the responsibility and right to identify the device in order to avoid potential hazard to passing ships.

China dealt with the issue professionally and with due diligence, and it has agreed to return the vehicle to the U.S. *after an investigation*. The U.S., on the other hand, has used this issue to *hype up speculations*, which does not help to solve the problem.

The U.S. cannot hide its real agenda by downplaying recent events. The unmanned drone was just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to U.S. military actions against China. The U.S. has been developing UUVs for a long time, treating them as a “power enhancer” for its military and a crucial part of its weapons system. The U.S. even increased its investment in the research of UUVs in recent years.

The fact that the U.S. released Bowditch, an oceanographic survey ship, in the South China Sea was another example of its years-long attempt to keep a close watch over China. The U.S. military routinely sends ships to Chinese waters to conduct close-in reconnaissance and military surveys. This demonstrates the country's hostility against China. So-called free navigation would not only increase the risk of accidents, it would also create obstacles for strategic mutual trust between China and the U.S.

*Both cooperation and competition will co-exist in bilateral ties for a long time. It is precisely this dynamic that has made China stronger and stronger.*

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## AZADPAKISTAN2009



Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## TaiShang



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## AZADPAKISTAN2009

What will happen if China Buys twitter ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TaiShang

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> What will happen if China Buys twitter ?



They would not sell it on national security grounds. Now with Trump so active in Twitter diplomacy, he would personally prevent it.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## AZADPAKISTAN2009

I heard chinese hackers can hack Trump account and steal national security material he saves all data on his twitter account with public setting

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TaiShang

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> I heard chinese hackers can hack Trump account and steal national security material he saves all data on his twitter account with public setting



That would not be surprising after people found out how Hillary handled classified information. Trump owes his presidency to Hillary's recklessness and hacking of information by various foreign agencies.

Nonetheless, if Trump continues to use Twitter for important foreign policy decisions and announcements, that would be the most democratic form of foreign policy making and I would support it.

Did we not learn about how he feels about China's confiscation of US spying material. His entire unsteady logic process can be seen crystal clear from the flow of his tweets. 

That's priceless.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## third eye

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-38376037











A US underwater drone seized by China last week has now been returned, the Pentagon has confirmed.

The drone was handed over close to the location it was seized, some 92km north-west of Subic Bay.

*A statement said the US will "fly, sail, and operate in the South China Sea" where international law allows.*

China captured the vessel in international waters last Thursday, in one of the most serious confrontations between the powers in decades.


----------



## Baloch Pakistani

I hope all the screws are in place.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## patero

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> What will happen if China Buys twitter ?



They'll lose a load of money. Why do you think nobody else wanted to buy it recently, it's overvalued.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Trump uses it daily I don't buy media keeps puting his tweets on my feeds daily

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TaiShang

*China has handed underwater drone back to the US: MOD*
Source: Global Times Published: 2016/12/20 14:43:39



The Chinese defense ministry confirmed with the Global Times Tuesday that China has returned to the US the underwater drone it seized in the South China Sea.

According to the early report from FOX News, the US Department of Defense confirmed that China planned to hand the drone back to the US on Tuesday near Huangyan Island, where the drone was seized by the Chinese Navy.

Chinese Defense Ministry spokesperson Yang Yujun said late Saturday that China had decided to hand over the US underwater drone it captured in its waters to the United States in *"an appropriate manner."*

According Yang's statement on the website of the defense ministry, on Thursday afternoon a Chinese naval lifeboat located an unidentified device in the waters of the South China Sea. In order to prevent the device from risking the safety of navigation and personnel of passing vessels,* the Chinese naval lifeboat verified and examined the device in a professional and responsible manner*, the statement read.



patero said:


> They'll lose a load of money. Why do you think nobody else wanted to buy it recently, it's overvalued.



Indeed. It would not be a wise investment. Especially after the US regime decided to "crackdown" on fake news on Twitter and Facebook.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## BoQ77

The Pentagon said the vehicle had been handed over to the guided missile destroyer USS Mustin *near where it had been "unlawfully seized*". It called on China to comply with international law and refrain from further efforts to impede lawful U.S. activities.


----------



## Place Of Space

BoQ77 said:


> The Pentagon said the vehicle had been handed over to the guided missile destroyer USS Mustin *near where it had been "unlawfully seized*". It called on China to comply with international law and refrain from further efforts to impede lawful U.S. activities.



The Pentagon must understand it's a slight warning. They need to demand their overseas staff to be more careful.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## BoQ77

Place Of Space said:


> The Pentagon must understand it's a slight warning. They need to demand their overseas staff to be more careful.



In that case, China didnt return it quickly.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Place Of Space

BoQ77 said:


> In that case, China didnt return it quickly.



The goal has been achieved. In most cases, other nations won't capture American vehicle this way.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## gambit

Zsari said:


> Wrong. Claim and counter claim doesn't make the area open to others, as the dispute is purely between the parties involved, just as any *territorial dispute between neighbors won't make that territory open for third party acquisition.* As a third party not involved in the dispute, you can either pick a side and comply with that state's regulation, or if you claim to be neutral, then you need to comply with the relevant laws of both claimants. Thus far, the US has claimed to be neutral.


Wrong.

Where did the US, as that third party, claimed the entirety of the SCS as our own, as in 'acquisition' as how you dishonestly put US ?

*WHERE DID THE US EVER CLAIMED TO OWN THE SOUTH CHINA SEA ?*

Claim and counter claim of ownership -- of a current public access way -- keep that access way open for anyone to traverse, *NOT FOR ANYONE TO CLAIM OWNERSHIP.*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BuddhaPalm

LOL did we give it back in disassembled pieces? That is the question.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## gambit

Zsari said:


> South China Sea is not HIGH SEA,...


Of course it is. The context of 'high sea' is an area of ocean *THAT IS NOT UNDER ANY COUNTRY'S JURISDICTION.*

Currently, the SCS is not recognized by anyone to belong to China, therefore, the SCS is not under any country's jurisdiction, therefore, the SCS is qualified as 'high sea'.



Zsari said:


> ...the drone operation were not only the very definition of exploration of natural resrouces in other's EEZ, but also a military operation that directly violated the very condition laid out by the article as exclusively for peaceful purposes. That single fact alone make the operation and the drone outside the framework allowed for by UNCLOS.


Data gathering is peaceful purposes.

A violation of peaceful purposes means no overtly military type operations like war games are allowed. That is why there is something called 'innocent passage' thru territorial waters where the word 'innocent' mean a genuine desire to simply traverse the region without disturbing the local peace.

The _Bowditch_ was *NOT* a commissioned warship, just like how the USAF often lease civilian airliners which does not mean a United Airlines jet suddenly becomes a military transport. That mean the _Bowditch_ was fully within rights to conduct surveying operations within the Philippines' EEZ and did it without disturbing the local peace.



BuddhaPalm said:


> LOL did we give it back in disassembled pieces? That is the question.


Who cares ? But China's face is in pieces. LOL.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BuddhaPalm

gambit said:


> Who cares ? But China's face is in pieces. LOL.


LOL no more technology secret left in that UUSV after we took it apart. Will USA keep crying about its toy?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ahojunk

Op-Ed: China deserves credit for handling underwater drone issue in professional and peaceful manner
By Curtis Stone (People's Daily Online) 16:55, December 20, 2016

On Tuesday, China demonstrated its goodwill in the face of U.S. hostility by returning the underwater drone that was located in the South China Sea. In a recent People’s Daily commentary, the USNS Bowditch was accused of keeping watch over China. The news has been largely one-sided, with Western media frequently replacing “discovery of unknown device” with “seizure of U.S. underwater drone.” But given China’s past experience with the Bowditch, the role of oceanographic data in warfare operations, and U.S. President-elect Donald Trump’s aggressive actions and comments, China has every reason to be deeply suspicious of U.S. naval surveillance in the South China Sea.

The Bowditch has long been associated with spying operations against China. A recent article on the China Military website called the ship a threat to China’s national security. According to a 2011 Congressional Research Service reported on the subject of China’s military and security developments, the Bowditch has been involved in at least two major incidents. In March 2001, the U.S. accused a Chinese frigate of carrying out “aggressive and provocative actions” against the Bowditch within China’s exclusive economic zone. In September 2002, a similar event unfolded a second time. Given China’s past experience with the Bowditch, it is normal for China to be suspicious of its activities in waters facing China.

Oceanographic data is useful for scientific research, but this data can also be used to support submarine and undersea warfare operations in areas of tactical importance, such as the South China Sea. In addition, the Bowditch is not the first noncombat “research” ship to sail the waters of Northeast Asia. The USS Pueblo, a “research” ship captured by North Korea during Cold War, was used to intercept communications from North Korea. There is no way for China to be absolutely certain that the Bowditch is not engaged in hostile spying operations against China or that data being collected is not for the purpose of warfare operations against China.

Then there is the wildcard that is currently upsetting China-U.S. relations. Shortly after the Chinese navy collected the underwater device to make sure that it did not pose a security risk, Trump lashed out at China for “stealing” the underwater drone in an “unpresidented (unprecedented) act.” However, the situation was being handled military-to-military in a professional manner, and his comments only added fuel to the fire. Chinese Foreign Ministry Spokeswoman Hua Chunying on Monday called Trump’s word choice “totally inaccurate.”

China has long opposed U.S. close-in reconnaissance operations in the South China Sea. Despite the spiral of tensions, China demonstrated its goodwill and returned the underwater drone “after friendly negotiation.” China should be given credit for handling the situation in a professional and peaceful manner.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## gambit

> China should be given credit for handling the situation in a professional and peaceful manner.
> 
> Source: https://defence.pk/threads/rt-beiji...china-sea-report.467091/page-27#ixzz4TO0vGgm8


Nice spin, but China should have left the _Bowditch_ alone in the first place, especially when both Chinese and American ships were nowhere near China.



BuddhaPalm said:


> LOL no more technology secret left in that UUSV after we took it apart. Will USA keep crying about its toy?


You cannot build it yourself ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Hindustani78

AT SEA (Aug. 24, 2015) A littoral battlespace sensing-glider (LBS-G) is deployed aboard a Naval Oceanographic Office (NAVOCEANO) T-AGS 60-class vessel. NAVOCEANO, comprised of approximately 800 military, civilian and contractor personnel, uses a variety of platforms, including ships, aircraft, satellite sensors, buoys and unmanned underwater vehicles to collect oceanographic and hydrographic data from the world's oceans. (U.S. Navy photo/Released)






AT SEA (Nov. 30, 2015) A littoral battlespace sensing-glider (LBS-G) is deployed from a Naval Oceanographic Office (NAVOCEANO) T-AGS 60-class vessel. LBS-G are currently deployed from five of six NAVOCEANO T-AGS 60-class ships. LBS-G collect data profiles including temperature, salinity, water clarity and depth. (U.S. Navy photo/Released)





AT SEA (Nov. 30, 2015) The stern of a Naval Oceanographic Office (NAVOCEANO) T-AGS 60-class vessel is photographed with a glider, left, in the distance. Gliders operate at speeds of approximately 0.5 knots and are highly susceptible to the environment, especially currents. They routinely dive to nearly 1,000 meters and can operate for up to four months, depending on environmental conditions and sensors utilized. (U.S. Navy photo/Released)




AT SEA (Dec. 10, 2015) A littoral battlespace sensing-glider (LBS-G) is deployed from a Naval Oceanographic Office (NAVOCEANO) T-AGS 60-class vessel. NAVOCEANO has been deploying LBS-G operationally since 2012. Today, NAVOCEANO employs a fleet of LBS-G around the world. (U.S. Navy photo/Released)





AT SEA (Feb. 15, 2016) A night deployment of a littoral battlespace sensing-glider (LBS-G). Once deployed, gliders change their buoyancy to descend or ascend in the ocean. The upward or downward movement is transformed into horizontal motion by its wings, causing the vehicle to glide. (U.S. Navy photo/Released)


----------



## Zsari

gambit said:


> Wrong.
> 
> Where did the US, as that third party, claimed the entirety of the SCS as our own, as in 'acquisition' as how you dishonestly put US ?
> 
> *WHERE DID THE US EVER CLAIMED TO OWN THE SOUTH CHINA SEA ?*
> 
> Claim and counter claim of ownership -- of a current public access way -- keep that access way open for anyone to traverse, *NOT FOR ANYONE TO CLAIM OWNERSHIP.*



Have you ever freely traverse any disputed territory without proper visa and act in complete disregard of the law of the nation that's in control of the territory?



gambit said:


> Of course it is. The context of 'high sea' is an area of ocean *THAT IS NOT UNDER ANY COUNTRY'S JURISDICTION.*




Unfortunately, the definition for High Sea is already given by Article 86 instead of what you claim.



gambit said:


> Data gathering is peaceful purposes.
> 
> A violation of peaceful purposes means no overtly military type operations like war games are allowed. That is why there is something called 'innocent passage' thru territorial waters where the word 'innocent' mean a genuine desire to simply traverse the region without disturbing the local peace.
> 
> The _Bowditch_ was *NOT* a commissioned warship, just like how the USAF often lease civilian airliners which does not mean a United Airlines jet suddenly becomes a military transport. That mean the _Bowditch_ was fully within rights to conduct surveying operations within the Philippines' EEZ and did it without disturbing the local peace.



Any military operation is for non-peaceful *purpose*, let alone for "exclusive peaceful purpose". The data gathering is for submarine and anti-submarine warfare. Any claim of peaceful purpose would be a complete farce. An act of overt espionage itself is non-peaceful, not just the purpose.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## sweetgrape

Penguin said:


> Oh yea of little knowledge.
> 1. What armed warship? The US ship? Does the designation USNS have any meaning to you?
> See http://www.msc.navy.mil/inventory/ships.asp?ship=17&type=OceanographicSurveyShip
> Where's the armament?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for violated article of UNCLOS, try these:
> 
> 
> *Article56*
> _
> 
> Rights, jurisdiction and duties of the coastal State in the exclusive economic zone
> _
> 1. In the exclusive economic zone, the coastal State has:
> (a) sovereign rights for the purpose of exploring and exploiting, conserving and managing the natural resources, whether living or non-living, of the waters superjacent to the seabed and of the seabed and its subsoil, and with regard to other activities for the economic exploitation and exploration of the zone, such as the production of energy from the water, currents and winds;
> (b) jurisdiction as provided for in the relevant provisions of this Convention with regard to:
> (i) the establishment and use of artificial islands, installations and structures;
> (ii) marine scientific research;
> (iii) the protection and preservation of the marine environment;
> (c) other rights and duties provided for in this Convention.
> 
> *2. In exercising its rights and performing its duties under this Convention in the exclusive economic zone, the coastal State shall have due regard to the rights and duties of other States and shall act in a manner compatible with the provisions of this Convention.*
> 
> 3. The rights set out in this article with respect to the seabed and subsoil shall be exercised in accordance with Part VI.
> 
> *Article58*
> _
> 
> Rights and duties of other States in the exclusive economic zone
> _
> 1. *In the exclusive economic zone*, *all States*, whether coastal or land-locked, *enjoy*, subject to the relevant provisions of this Convention, *the freedoms referred to in article 87 of navigation and overflight and of the laying of submarine cables and pipelines, and other internationally lawful uses of the sea related to these freedoms,* such as those associated with the operation of ships, aircraft and submarine cables and pipelines, and compatible with the other provisions of this Convention.
> 
> 2. Articles 88 to 115 and other pertinent rules of international law apply to the exclusive economic zone in so far as they are not incompatible with this Part.
> 
> 3. In exercising their rights and performing their duties under this Convention in the exclusive economic zone, States shall have due regard to the rights and duties of the coastal State and shall comply with the laws and regulations adopted by the coastal State in accordance with the provisions of this Convention and other rules of international law in so far as they are not incompatible with this Part.


That ship is not military ship? which company does it belong to? don't find the company spokensman stand out for asking China return it, but USA government first, hehe.

Exclusive economic zone? why dragged it here, first tell the ship is military ship or civilian ship.







Penguin said:


> Man, you are thick. I have indicated China and my own country are and US isn't an UNCLOS (ratified) signatory. Irrespective of whether the US is or is not a signatory, China is therefor bound by UNCLOS.


So, China violate the UNCLOS? ok, we don't accept that, how to deal with it? I think you should ask USA sue China for it, 30 million dollars is very small money for them.



Penguin said:


> Oceanography is necessary e.g. for the production of accurate sea maps, particularly in areas that have been hit by e.g. large storms, where shift may have occurred on the sea bed. If you (or China) claim that the USNS ship was actually spying, you should produce evidence thereof and lodge a complaint via diplomatic channels, or with the international institutions or practices indicated in UNCLOS. Up untill now China (and you) have produced NOTHING that actually supports the notion that this particular ship was spying. How hard is THAT to understand?


Does spyer will come at you volunterily, and say they are spyer, although average IQ of American is lower than Chinese, but not that fool, is it? they were sneaking around Chinese islands, seems collecting the information about security of China, rumor said at that time, there was a nuclear there, we as a peacekeeper of SCS, it is our responsiblity to check whether the ship is bad guy, if you are not, will release you soon, don't feel it is unreasonble.

As the evidence of the ship is spying, we need check its device, you know spyer will not tell you voluntarily, and how do you know whether UUV came into China territorial sea and what did it do underwater? we were collecting evidence, it is very normal thing like police does, hard to understand?

_
*


Penguin said:



SECTION 2. LIMITS OF THE TERRITORIAL SEA

Click to expand...

*


Penguin said:



Article3 Breadth of the territorial sea

Every State has the right to establish the breadth of its* territorial sea* up to a limit *not exceeding 12 nautical miles*, measured from baselines determined in accordance with this Convention.

Article29 Definition of warships

For the purposes of this Convention, "warship" means a ship belonging to the armed forces of a State bearing the external marks distinguishing such ships of its nationality, under the command of an officer duly commissioned by the government of the State and whose name appears in the appropriate service list or its equivalent, and manned by a crew which is under regular armed forces discipline.

Article30 Non-compliance by warships with the laws and regulations of the coastal State

If any warship does not comply with the laws and regulations of the coastal State concerning passage through the territorial sea and disregards any request for compliance therewith which is made to it, the coastal State may require it to leave the territorial sea immediately.

Article32 *Immunities *of warships and other government ships operated for non-commercial purposes

With such exceptions as are contained in subsection A and in articles 30 and 31, nothing in this Convention affects the immunities of warships and other government ships operated for non-commercial purposes.

Article87  Freedom of the high seas

Click to expand...

_


Penguin said:


> 1. The high seas are open to all States, whether coastal or land-locked. Freedom of the high seas is exercised under the conditions laid down by this Convention and by other rules of international law. It comprises, _inter alia_, both for coastal and land-locked States:
> (a) freedom of navigation;
> (b) freedom of overflight;
> (c) freedom to lay submarine cables and pipelines, subject to Part VI;
> (d) freedom to construct artificial islands and other installations permitted under international law, subject to Part VI;
> (e) freedom of fishing, subject to the conditions laid down in section 2;
> (f)* freedom of scientific research,* subject to Parts VI and XIII.
> 
> 2. These freedoms shall be exercised by all States with due regard for the interests of other States in their exercise of the freedom of the high seas, and also with due regard for the rights under this Convention with respect to activities in the Area.
> 
> _Article89 Invalidity of claims of sovereignty over the high seas
> _
> *No State may validly purport to subject any part of the high seas to its sovereignty.*
> 
> _
> Article95_ Immunity of warships on the high seas
> 
> *Warships on the high seas have complete immunity from the jurisdiction of any State other than the flag State.*
> _
> Article96 _Immunity of ships used only on government non-commercial service
> 
> *Ships owned or operated by a State and used only on government non-commercial service shall, on the high seas, have complete immunity from the jurisdiction of any State other than the flag State.*


Scientific research? cool words, like democracy and freedom of navigation, when you peep at girl taking a bath, you can say you are doing human research; when you break into other room and move the belongs, you can say you just do exercise , we know what you are doing, rhetoric words can't change it in essence.



Penguin said:


> It is exactly like what the Russian are doing: there is propaganda value in this. "Oh look how tough we are, the US can't touch us'" on minor thinngs... but in reality the true professionals are shown to be the US crews. Each such incident to me is 'Chinese lost face"


Hehe, Chinese lost face? we lost again? 

I remember that in 1993, the Chinese Ship Yinhe affair, which was suspected by USA that it took prohibited goods, and will sent to Iran, US Navy warship seize surrounded it, try board on it without permission from China government, the ship can't pull in to shore, finally for the crew life safety, China government had to come to compromise that let the ship pull in to a port of Saudi arabia, let US officers boarded on it, but nothing forbiden found, what do you think about the affair, US military ship get Chinese ship trapped in "international sea" and suspecting it? and who lost face? interested in your answer. 

BTW, Thanks your "negative" label to my comments, but baised to not give to that fake American, never mind, hehe, just so-so, like freedom of navigation, deomcacy to western, the power that give other "negative" just a tool to you, be abused.





BoQ77 said:


> China didnt argue that way, they simply return the AUV immediately.
> That tells something.
> 
> An apology is recommended for a perfect end.
> 
> Disappointed to see they wasted the budget that way to ignite this potential crisis.
> 
> But disappointed more to see they didnt use an apology which cost None to end this.


Why you were disappointed? we are wasting our money, according to reason, you should be happy, you fall to new lower level, in fact if you don't know what should to say when see the conflict between two big boys, you should better to sit down and enjoy it, here opening your mouth only expose your fool side,



gambit said:


> Who cares ? But China's face is in pieces. LOL.


No care? but you are jumping up and down here, LOL.

You want face, we can give you more, be ready

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## gambit

Zsari said:


> Have you ever freely traverse any disputed territory without proper visa and act in complete disregard of the law of the nation that's in control of the territory?


If I obey certain rules during travel, it is because of safety reasons, not because the territory is recognized as belonging to someone.

But you are avoiding the question...So I will ask again...

Show us where the US ever claimed the entirety of the SCS as our own ?



Zsari said:


> Unfortunately, the definition for High Sea is already given by Article 86 instead of what you claim.


Sure...

http://www.un.org/depts/los/convention_agreements/texts/unclos/part7.htm

Right there in the beginning.



Zsari said:


> Any military operation is for non-peaceful *purpose*, let alone for "exclusive peaceful purpose". The data gathering is for submarine and anti-submarine warfare. Any claim of peaceful purpose would be a complete farce. An act of overt espionage itself is non-peaceful, not just the purpose.


You are expanding the definition of 'peaceful purpose' to unacceptable dimensions.

The US perform EM reconnaissance, surface and air, off China's coast and inside her EEZ, regularly. If what you said/interpreted is applicable, China would have attacked the first vessel that performed such a mission. Instead, those missions continued to this day.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## sword1947

F-22Raptor said:


> Please....the reality is China stole an oceanographic drone gathering scientific data in international waters. That makes you thieves. No wonder your neighbors have no trust in you.
> 
> The US will continue to conduct hundreds of missions per year in the SCS. This won't deter us.



arrest a spy is not a big deal

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## gambit

The PDF Chinese who persistently claimed the American UUV is an instrument of war by the dual use nature of the data collection process, therefore, justified the Chinese act of piracy on the _Bowditch_...

http://www.popsci.com/blog-network/...university-tests-long-range-unmanned-mini-sub


> Tianjin University researchers have completed a sea test of the Haiyan autonomous underwater unmanned vehicle (UUV). The Haiyan is currently a civilian platform, targeted for purposes of scientific exploration of marine biology, seabeds and to aid search and rescue missions (such as the assignment of the Blue Fin 21 UUV to search for Flight MH370). *But just like the US Navy, the People's Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) also has close relationships with research universities, sponsoring robotic prototypes for potential military applications.* As an autonomous UUV, the Haiyan is capable of conducting independent operations without the need for human intervention, making it ideal for lengthy and/or dangerous missions like minesweeping and submarine detection.


Do not complain if the Trump administration decides to teach your China the same lesson by taking one of your UUVs.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zsari

gambit said:


> If I obey certain rules during travel, it is because of safety reasons, not because the territory is recognized as belonging to someone.
> 
> But you are avoiding the question...So I will ask again...
> 
> Show us where the US ever claimed the entirety of the SCS as our own ?



Since when I've stated US claim the SCS? My statement is clear that US has claimed neutrality in the dispute, hence should observe the relevant laws of all of the claimant states.




gambit said:


> You are expanding the definition of 'peaceful purpose' to unacceptable dimensions.
> 
> The US perform EM reconnaissance, surface and air, off China's coast and inside her EEZ, regularly. If what you said/interpreted is applicable, China would have attacked the first vessel that performed such a mission. Instead, those missions continued to this day.



My definition is too broad, as "exclusive peaceful purpose" should be far more restrictive. China have repeatedly voice opposition to US reconnaissance mission inside its EEZ. Of course unlike you, US state department doesn't cite UNCLOS for its conduct but rather base its action on the immunity of military vessels being outside the jurisdiction of UNCLOS. However whether a drone can enjoy the same immunity as a warship is still high debatable.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## BoQ77

Try to capture the UUV again, China.
If you insist that nothing wrong, just do it again.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## gambit

Zsari said:


> Since when I've stated US claim the SCS?


The insinuation is evident...

https://defence.pk/threads/rt-beiji...-china-sea-report.467091/page-26#post-9027770


> ...dispute between neighbors won't make that territory open for third party acquisition.





Zsari said:


> My statement is clear that US has claimed neutrality in the dispute, hence should observe the relevant laws of all of the claimant states.


This argument is seriously flawed.

We are not talking about an object that can be moved to where the owner can exercise absolute physical control over it. We are talking about a fixed geographical feature that require a moral foundation that is acceptable to all parties who have some interests in this feature.

If I own a piece of land, I can have a physical presence on that land to clearly show that the land is occupied. That physical presence can be me personally, or a standing structure like a house or even a simple sign to indicate the same. But that is not enough, I would also have to rely on an existing moral and legal framework that support me and/or that standing structure. This means in absence of me, people would still understand that the land is not abandoned, owned by someone, and that there are laws protecting that land.

If ownership of a piece of land, or in this case a region of the ocean, is being contested, there is no way for me to obey all rules of claimants considering those rules will contradict each other. If A do not give me permit to cross, but B does give permission, how can I obey both rules ? Those rules are to be obeyed even if neither countries are present. Those rules are supposed to have the force of law, or at least a moral persuasion for all sides. So if the rules from A says I cannot cross, but the rules from B says I can cross, where is the force of law or that moral understanding ?

How can you not see the flaw in your argument is beyond me...



Zsari said:


> My definition is too broad, as "exclusive peaceful purpose" should be far more restrictive. China have repeatedly voice opposition to US reconnaissance mission inside its EEZ. Of course unlike you, US state department doesn't cite UNCLOS for its conduct but rather base its action on the immunity of military vessels being outside the jurisdiction of UNCLOS. *However whether a drone can enjoy the same immunity as a warship is still high debatable.*


The debate is imaginary.

China, like the US, is experimenting with autonomous cars. So going by your argument, is the ownership of an unmanned car 'debatable' ? No, it does not. When that unmanned car is on the road, it is still immune from being stolen. If there are valuable items inside that unmanned car, those items are still immune from being stolen.

Fish traps are essentially unmanned devices and usually they are unattended. Does that mean anyone can steal another person's livelihood ? No, we respect the laws protecting those unattended fish traps, and we understand the moral persuasion that supports those laws.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

*China Holds UUV Symposium for Coordination in UUV Development*

December 20, 2016 




An ocean glider UUV being recovered off the coast of Scotland. On December 15, a similar unmanned underwater vehicle was snatched by the Chinese Navy as it was about to be collected off the coast of the Philippines. Photo: AFP

In its report “China holds ‘first ever’ underwater drone symposium two days after it seizes US device” today, SCMP quotes Hu Dunxin of the Chinese Academy of Sciences as saying that China’s use of underwater drone (unmanned underwater vehicle (UUV)) technology was advanced.

The symposium was held on December 17, two days after China’s seizure of a US UUV, but SCMP says in the report, “The gathering of more than 100 specialists, organised by the Chinese Academy of Sciences’ Shenyang Institute of Automation, is not directly related to the seizure.”

According to the institute’s website, the Institute of Automation is one of the leaders in underwater drone research in China. It has developed a series of UUVs that can operate at depths of between 300 metres and 7,000 metres and the UUV symposium was held as there is urgent need for Chinese research institutions, manufacturers and clients to improve their cooperation for better coordination of UUV research.

The report shows that China has attached great importance to and made great efforts in developing UUVs. No wonder it is capable of detecting, tracking and seizing US UUVs. China does not lag behind the US in UUV technology. That was why I said in my previous post that the seizure has broken US dream of attacking China with UUVs.

Full article:

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/dipl...lds-first-ever-underwater-drone-symposium-two.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## gambit

https://www.lawfareblog.com/chinas-capture-us-underwater-drone-violates-law-sea

_China’s capture of the drone violates three norms embedded in international maritime law and reflected in the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea and other treaties. First, the drone is a “U.S. vessel,” and its seizure shows a willingness to openly steal American property operating legitimately at sea. Second, China’s action is all the more blatant because the U.S. “vessel” enjoys sovereign immune status. No foreign nation may purport to assert legal jurisdiction over it. Third, the capture is further evidence of China’s penchant for disrupting freedom of navigation on the high seas, despite Beijing’s repeated assertions that it has never interfered with freedom of navigation in the South China Sea.
_
https://lawfareblog.com/nonexistent-legal-basis-chinas-seizure-us-navys-drone-south-china-sea

_Under UNCLOS Article 32, “*warships and other government ships operated for non-commercial purposes” retain their immunities under customary international law. This absolute sovereign immunity from seizure would be applicable even within China’s territorial waters.* It certainly exists within China’s theoretical and sketchy Scarborough Shoal-based EEZ and would apply even if the UUV was conducting military surveillance. 

In sum, China has seized a vessel belonging to a foreign government in clear violation of any possible theory of international law it could offer. Even if one accepts China’s expansive claims to an EEZ 50 miles off the coast of the Philippines (in violation of the arbitral award), and one accepts China’s rights to stop military surveillance (in violation of the plain text of UNCLOS), there is no way any country can accept China’s right to seize foreign naval vessels in violation of the basic principle of sovereign immunity. China has no legal basis for its action, and the U.S. should do its best to make sure other nations realize this._

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Levina

I luv Chinese!
Yeah I do. It takes a lot of courage to do this to one of the most (militarily) powerful country. 
This is a Chinese style of saying "welcome Mr President".  
Trump's predecessors, Obama and Bush, too found themselves in a similar military standoff in their first month as a President.
I guess it was during Bush's 1st month when a Chinese jet crashed after it flew too close to an American spy plane, killing the pilot of the jet, and the American plane had to make an emergency landing. The crew made it home after 11 days and the plane came back in pieces....months later. Americans were fuming back then.

Then came Obama's turn, when an American ship found itself facing 5 Chinese ships. They even tried snatching the sonar equipment that was being towed.
The poor American ship sped off only to return in the company of an American destroyer. 
Sorry I thought it was funny. Don't mean to offend anyone. 
I think this is just a warning to what Trump might have to face a month later when he takes over frm Obama. The call to Taiwan has not gone down well with Chinese.
Not sure if Russia has ever faced something similar. @vostok

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Penguin

ahojunk said:


> Op-Ed: China deserves credit for handling underwater drone issue in professional and peaceful manner
> By Curtis Stone (People's Daily Online) 16:55, December 20, 2016


The _*People's Daily*_ is the biggest newspaper group in China. The paper is an official newspaper of the Chinese Communist Party

Hardly a source one would expect tro be critical in this case.



sweetgrape said:


> That ship is not military ship? which company does it belong to? don't find the company spokensman stand out for asking China return it, but USA government first, hehe


It was you that spoke of an armed warship, and this clearly it isn't. The rest of you post is not worthy of serious comment, as it is not serious to begin with. Have a nice day.


----------



## Zsari

gambit said:


> The insinuation is evident...
> 
> https://defence.pk/threads/rt-beiji...-china-sea-report.467091/page-26#post-9027770



That's a lot of insinuation with a vivid imagination.



gambit said:


> This argument is seriously flawed.
> 
> We are not talking about an object that can be moved to where the owner can exercise absolute physical control over it. We are talking about a fixed geographical feature that require a moral foundation that is acceptable to all parties who have some interests in this feature.
> 
> If I own a piece of land, I can have a physical presence on that land to clearly show that the land is occupied. That physical presence can be me personally, or a standing structure like a house or even a simple sign to indicate the same. But that is not enough, I would also have to rely on an existing moral and legal framework that support me and/or that standing structure. This means in absence of me, people would still understand that the land is not abandoned, owned by someone, and that there are laws protecting that land.
> 
> If ownership of a piece of land, or in this case a region of the ocean, is being contested, there is no way for me to obey all rules of claimants considering those rules will contradict each other. If A do not give me permit to cross, but B does give permission, how can I obey both rules ? Those rules are to be obeyed even if neither countries are present. Those rules are supposed to have the force of law, or at least a moral persuasion for all sides. So if the rules from A says I cannot cross, but the rules from B says I can cross, where is the force of law or that moral understanding ?
> 
> How can you not see the flaw in your argument is beyond me...



This is getting silly. Take example of the Kuril island. Can the USAF flies a jet into its airspace, it'll be shout out of the sky. Now tell the Russian that because Japan dispute the ownership of these islands, the airspace are now open for transit, and you'll be laugh out of the room. And even with Russian consent, without Japanese agreement, Japan will protest your intrusion. A neutral party needs to get clearance from both states. Is that too hard to understand?



gambit said:


> China, like the US, is experimenting with autonomous cars. So going by your argument, is the ownership of an unmanned car 'debatable' ? No, it does not. When that unmanned car is on the road, it is still immune from being stolen. If there are valuable items inside that unmanned car, those items are still immune from being stolen.
> 
> Fish traps are essentially unmanned devices and usually they are unattended. Does that mean anyone can steal another person's livelihood ? No, we respect the laws protecting those unattended fish traps, and we understand the moral persuasion that supports those laws.



If you throw something on the ground in a public area, is the next guy picking it up stealing? And if you leave your car unattended on the road, does the police not have the power to tow it away? China is exercising its administrative right in the water it claims, and an unmanned drone would not enjoy the same immunity a flagged warship does.



gambit said:


> https://www.lawfareblog.com/chinas-capture-us-underwater-drone-violates-law-sea
> 
> _China’s capture of the drone violates three norms embedded in international maritime law and reflected in the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea and other treaties. First, the drone is a “U.S. vessel,” and its seizure shows a willingness to openly steal American property operating legitimately at sea. Second, China’s action is all the more blatant because the U.S. “vessel” enjoys sovereign immune status. No foreign nation may purport to assert legal jurisdiction over it. Third, the capture is further evidence of China’s penchant for disrupting freedom of navigation on the high seas, despite Beijing’s repeated assertions that it has never interfered with freedom of navigation in the South China Sea.
> _
> https://lawfareblog.com/nonexistent-legal-basis-chinas-seizure-us-navys-drone-south-china-sea
> 
> _Under UNCLOS Article 32, “*warships and other government ships operated for non-commercial purposes” retain their immunities under customary international law. This absolute sovereign immunity from seizure would be applicable even within China’s territorial waters.* It certainly exists within China’s theoretical and sketchy Scarborough Shoal-based EEZ and would apply even if the UUV was conducting military surveillance.
> 
> In sum, China has seized a vessel belonging to a foreign government in clear violation of any possible theory of international law it could offer. Even if one accepts China’s expansive claims to an EEZ 50 miles off the coast of the Philippines (in violation of the arbitral award), and one accepts China’s rights to stop military surveillance (in violation of the plain text of UNCLOS), there is no way any country can accept China’s right to seize foreign naval vessels in violation of the basic principle of sovereign immunity. China has no legal basis for its action, and the U.S. should do its best to make sure other nations realize this._



There we go. US is arguing the drone as a "warship or other government ships" that has sovereign immunity for seizure. There is however no customary international law defining a drone to be one.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## rott

Zsari said:


> Wrong. Claim and counter claim doesn't make the area open to others, as the dispute is purely between the parties involved, just as any territorial dispute between neighbors won't make that territory open for third party acquisition. As a third party not involved in the dispute, you can either pick a side and comply with that state's regulation, or if you claim to be neutral, then you need to comply with the relevant laws of both claimants. Thus far, the US has claimed to be neutral.
> 
> 
> 
> You are going around in circle. South China Sea is not HIGH SEA, even if you argue for Philippine's EEZ, the restriction on "scientific research" still applies. Mind you, but Philippine has made their statement that they have no knowledge of the US operation, nor do they object to Chinese naval conduct there. Moreover, the drone operation were not only the very definition of exploration of natural resrouces in other's EEZ, but also a military operation that directly violated the very condition laid out by the article as exclusively for peaceful purposes. That single fact alone make the operation and the drone outside the framework allowed for by UNCLOS.


You're simply beating a dead horse. With him, you should only troll. Logic doesn't work.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## The SC

Penguin said:


> China signed the UNCLOS agreement Dec 10, 1982 Jun 7, 1996 and ratified Jul 29, 1994. Subsequently, the "Agreement relating to the implementation of Part XI of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea" amending the original Convention was signed by China Jul 29, 1994, and ratified Jun 7, 1996.
> 
> Both agreements are 100% applicable.


There was an agreement on the "One China policy" and it has been breached, that is why the law of the sea was breached..

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Place Of Space

Penguin said:


> The _*People's Daily*_ is the biggest newspaper group in China. The paper is an official newspaper of the Chinese Communist Party
> 
> Hardly a source one would expect tro be critical in this case.
> 
> 
> It was you that spoke of an armed warship, and this clearly it isn't. The rest of you post is not worthy of serious comment, as it is not serious to begin with. Have a nice day.



Official media is more responsible reporter specially referring to international issues. You know why the Charlie Hebdo accident happened? Because the private medias run off at the mouth. Seems now Charlie is much more calm and rational, lol.
I totally agree to this. "The Bowditch has long been associated with spying operations against China."

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## gambit

Zsari said:


> This is getting silly. Take example of the Kuril island. Can the USAF flies a jet into its airspace, it'll be shout out of the sky. Now tell the Russian that because Japan dispute the ownership of these islands, the airspace are now open for transit, and you'll be laugh out of the room. And even with Russian consent, without Japanese agreement, Japan will protest your intrusion. A neutral party needs to get clearance from both states. Is that too hard to understand?


*YOU* are silly.

The Kuril Islands are currently under Russian jurisdiction. Further, the islands have a history of being occupied by one side or the other. There is no valid comparison between the Kuril Islands and the SCS.



Zsari said:


> If you throw something on the ground in a public area, is the next guy picking it up stealing?


More silliness.

If I make it clear that I *DISCARD* that object, then there is no theft if someone picked it up. We did not throw away that UUV.



Zsari said:


> And if you leave your car unattended on the road, does the police not have the power to tow it away?


No, the police do not have that power. Go to any shopping center and you will see plenty of unattended parked cars. 

But seriously, the open sea is not the road. The open sea is more like public land where I can park my SUV anywhere I like and leave it unattended while I go target shooting out of sight.

During the theft, the _Bowditch_ was only a few hundred meters away from the UUV. Continuing with your police analogy, if the officer sees me approaching my car with my keys obviously in plain sight, he will do nothing and let me tend to my car. China have been stalking the _Bowditch_ for quite some time all the way into the Philippines' EEZ, so China is fully aware of who is the owner of that UUV.

Face it, pal. Your China was simply a thief.



Zsari said:


> China is exercising its administrative right in the water it claims, and an unmanned drone would not enjoy the same immunity a flagged warship does.


And China is in the wrong.



Zsari said:


> There we go. US is arguing the drone as a "warship or other government ships" that has sovereign immunity for seizure. There is however no customary international law defining a drone to be one.


More wrong. The lawyers already done the homework for you.

https://www.lawfareblog.com/chinas-capture-us-underwater-drone-violates-law-sea


> The variation between manned systems and unmanned systems, such as size of the means of propulsion, type of platform, capability, endurance, human versus autonomous control and mission set, has not been a defining character of what constitutes a “vessel” or “ship.”

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BuddhaPalm

http://www.businessinsider.com/china-confronted-us-navy-came-out-on-top-2016-12

China’s _Anschluss_ in the South China Sea

http://www.nationalreview.com/node/443209/print

*We came. We saw. We spanked. Who is next in line?*

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## qwerrty

unless those manned made islands dismantled, china will always come out on top by default

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Huan

BuddhaPalm said:


> http://www.businessinsider.com/china-confronted-us-navy-came-out-on-top-2016-12
> 
> China’s _Anschluss_ in the South China Sea
> 
> http://www.nationalreview.com/node/443209/print
> 
> *We came. We saw. We spanked. Who is next in line?*


How long before China's navy confronts a US carrier group directly?


----------



## gambit

China bullied a civilian ship, and it looked like China came out on top.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Globenim

gambit said:


> *YOU* are silly.
> 
> The Kuril Islands are currently under Russian jurisdiction. Further, the islands have a history of being occupied by one side or the other. There is no valid comparison between the Kuril Islands and the SCS.
> 
> 
> More silliness.
> 
> If I make it clear that I *DISCARD* that object, then there is no theft if someone picked it up. We did not throw away that UUV.
> 
> 
> No, the police do not have that power. Go to any shopping center and you will see plenty of unattended parked cars.
> 
> But seriously, the open sea is not the road. The open sea is more like public land where I can park my SUV anywhere I like and leave it unattended while I go target shooting out of sight.
> 
> During the theft, the _Bowditch_ was only a few hundred meters away from the UUV. Continuing with your police analogy, if the officer sees me approaching my car with my keys obviously in plain sight, he will do nothing and let me tend to my car. China have been stalking the _Bowditch_ for quite some time all the way into the Philippines' EEZ, so China is fully aware of who is the owner of that UUV.
> 
> Face it, pal. Your China was simply a thief.
> 
> 
> And China is in the wrong.
> 
> 
> More wrong. The lawyers already done the homework for you.
> 
> https://www.lawfareblog.com/chinas-capture-us-underwater-drone-violates-law-sea



Now its getting silly. At the request of the parking lot owner any private car can be removed by public and private services and Im pretty sure the U.S. is no exception in that case. For highly trafficed places its NORMAL to tow away cars if they violate the houserules even if they are not actually abonded by the owner. Do you even have a car licence yet or is that also just fantasy? The only reason the police wont do it as because its hard to keep track, a waste of time and it would only annoy people when no one complained yet. Private owners have the same issue, unless parking lots ar taken up that harm their business they have no reason to complain. And you can be sure abonded cars that fall apart in public space and may cause harm or stand in the way of a parade and ignore public orders by mere absence will be simply towed away. You can cry "freedomland" all you want. No one will take your infantile ignorance and hobby lawyer act serious and just laugh it off dismissing every complaint and lawsuit of yours.

Now no mater how many deliberately ignorant and dishonest spins you invent or quote from U.S. regime loyal "lawyers" their spins and lies are not the authority of truth. Its just the daily product of dishonest trolls like you who call islands rocks, deny history and drop every work ethic in they way to come up with whatever "expert conclusions" they want. Their lot have less integrity and credibility than the plumber next door.

The referenced section actually starts out with explicit exceptions those "lawyers" deliberately ommitted and just glossed over, which apply exactly in this case and have been unquestionably violated this time and in great numbers before by the U.S.. Aviolation is a violation wether you disrespect Chinese laws and customs or not. And anyways it would be a mindnumbing dumb statue no one would ever agree to if it protected your government vessels unconditionally from being seized, like your "lawyers" just tried to pass it off, but thats exactly the audience of those spin doctors public work. Not those naggy "PDF Chinaman" who question or worse understand what they are talking about, but dumb "free thinking" sheep who gobble up whatever most prominent lie they are told by selfproclaimed "authorities" and other disingenious people like you. We all know the superficial interpretation from a 3rd party of U.S. aligned "experts" serves no other purpose than to fabricate your own narrative and unsubstantial propaganda by ommission, spin and lies, where the facts contradict you. Thanks for proving and adding nothing of substance as usual. I rather stick to the facts and whats written in the real documents and they clearly protect Chinas rights.

As it stands the U.S. was simply in the wrong. Those UNCLOS documents lay it out very clearly and its hard to come up with a false interpretation that blames China without grossly ignoring half of the related passages and just reading every second half of a senctence. But good luck the U.S pirates are not respecting UNCLOS anyways!

Don't pretend you can judge and teach from a position of an ignorant boy

Reactions: Like Like:

3


----------



## BuddhaPalm

Huan said:


> How long before China's navy confronts a US carrier group directly?


We already confronted them with Song submarine during their exercises many years ago. Probably a shooting war will be before 2020 when we move to liberate Taiwan.



gambit said:


> China bullied a civilian ship, and it looked like China came out on top.


LOL just like White House is occupied by civilians

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Penguin

The SC said:


> There was an agreement on the "One China policy" and it has been breached, that is why the law of the sea was breached..


You do understand the qualitative difference between an agreement on policy and a signed and ratified treaty? 
Also, if so, why not withdraw from / reject UNCLOS.



Place Of Space said:


> Official media is more responsible reporter specially referring to international issues. You know why the Charlie Hebdo accident happened? Because the private medias run off at the mouth. Seems now Charlie is much more calm and rational, lol.
> I totally agree to this. "The Bowditch has long been associated with spying operations against China."


Sure, a lot more responsible. But still, very unlikely to be critical of the way China has handle this (or any) situation. 
The whole idea behind / point of having private media is that there are (and should be) a variety of avenues for a variety of perspectives, perceptions and points of view to be available. The whole choice of wording ("private media run off at the mouth") says enough in relation to that basic principle.

There is no comparison with Charlie Hebdo (unless you equal the Chinese actions with those of the terrorists, which I am sure you have no intention to do). Have you visited / followed Charlie Hebdo recently? I see very little change. I sincerely hope what you say above about that terrorist attack is not veiled justification or approval of said attack....


----------



## Zsari

Globenim said:


> Now its getting silly. At the request of the parking lot owner any private car can be removed by public and private services and Im pretty sure the U.S. is no exception in that case. For highly trafficed places its NORMAL to tow away cars if they violate the houserules even if they are not actually abonded by the owner. Do you even have a car licence yet or is that also just fantasy? The only reason the police wont do it as because its hard to keep track, a waste of time and it would only annoy people when no one complained yet. Private owners have the same issue, unless parking lots ar taken up that harm their business they have no reason to complain. And you can be sure abonded cars that fall apart in public space and may cause harm or stand in the way of a parade and ignore public orders by mere absence will be simply towed away. You can cry "freedomland" all you want. No one will take your infantile ignorance and hobby lawyer act serious and just laugh it off dismissing every complaint and lawsuit of yours.
> 
> Now no mater how many deliberately ignorant and dishonest spins you invent or quote from U.S. regime loyal "lawyers" their spins and lies are not the authority of truth. Its just the daily product of dishonest trolls like you who call islands rocks, deny history and drop every work ethic in they way to come up with whatever "expert conclusions" they want. Their lot have less integrity and credibility than the plumber next door.
> 
> The referenced section actually starts out with explicit exceptions those "lawyers" deliberately ommitted and just glossed over, which apply exactly in this case and have been unquestionably violated this time and in great numbers before by the U.S.. Aviolation is a violation wether you disrespect Chinese laws and customs or not. And anyways it would be a mindnumbing dumb statue no one would ever agree to if it protected your government vessels unconditionally from being seized, like your "lawyers" just tried to pass it off, but thats exactly the audience of those spin doctors public work. Not those naggy "PDF Chinaman" who question or worse understand what they are talking about, but dumb "free thinking" sheep who gobble up whatever most prominent lie they are told by selfproclaimed "authorities" and other disingenious people like you. We all know the superficial interpretation from a 3rd party of U.S. aligned "experts" serves no other purpose than to fabricate your own narrative and unsubstantial propaganda by ommission, spin and lies, where the facts contradict you. Thanks for proving and adding nothing of substance as usual. I rather stick to the facts and whats written in the real documents and they clearly protect Chinas rights.
> 
> As it stands the U.S. was simply in the wrong. Those UNCLOS documents lay it out very clearly and its hard to come up with a false interpretation that blames China without grossly ignoring half of the related passages and just reading every second half of a senctence. But good luck the U.S pirates are not respecting UNCLOS anyways!
> 
> Don't pretend you can judge and teach from a position of an ignorant boy



Aye. Notice the following passage. The "lawyers" cites the London Dumping convention for the definition on "vessel". But the problem is the UNCLOS has no "vessel" in its article for immunity. So what happened? Create a passage themselves to draw a parallel, and put quotation mark as if it comes out of the text of the convention.

The variation between manned systems and unmanned systems, such as size of the means of propulsion, type of platform, capability, endurance, human versus autonomous control and mission set, has not been a defining character of what constitutes a “vessel” or “ship.”

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## oprih

To the American cheerleaders, go troll somewhere else, you are just embarrassing yourselves here.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## BoQ77

Place Of Space said:


> I totally agree to this. "The Bowditch has long been associated with spying operations against China."



The world saw that China ship shadowed the Bowditch and steal its UUV marked US Property in international water.

China said "We just take and check an unidentified object for safety reason and return it immediately to US" mean they pretend that they don't know it belongs to the Bowditch.

Could we link your comment on this into "China lied, they captured Bowditch's UUV as punishment for its operations in the past" ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## JSCh

* Regular charter flights start at Yongxing airport*
Source: Xinhua 2016-12-22 17:48:23

HAIKOU, Dec. 22 (Xinhua) -- Charter business flights started at Yongxing airport in Sansha City, Hainan Province, on Thursday.

A passenger plane took off at Meilan Airport in Haikou, the provincial capital, and landed at the airport on Yongxing Island, one of the Xisha islands and the city's administrative base, at 10:20 a.m. Thursday.

The plane is scheduled to fly back to Haikou Thursday afternoon.

Starting Thursday, Yongxing airport will have a daily return charter business flight from Haikou to improve the work and living conditions of the city's public servants and stationed soldiers.

The expansion of Yongxing airport was completed in May. It obtained a certificate for civilian use in December and now serves both military and civilian purposes.

Sansha City was officially established in 2012 to administer the Xisha, Zhongsha and Nansha islands, and their surrounding waters in the South China Sea.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cochine

*Vietnam opposes all sovereignty violations: Spokesman
*
_Vietnam opposes all activities that violate its sovereignty as well as militarise and threaten peace, stability, security, safety and freedom of navigation and overflight in the East Sea._

_




_

_Foreign Ministry Spokesman Le Hai Binh
_


The statement was made on December 16 by Foreign Ministry Spokesman Le Hai Binh while answering reporters’ question on Vietnam’s response to new satellite images of the Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative (AMTI) which show that China appears to have installed weapons on seven geographic features in the East Sea.

“Vietnam is extremely worried about this imagery,” he stressed, affirming the country has sufficient legal foundation and historical evidence proving its sovereignty over Hoang Sa (Paracel) and Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelagoes.

_VNA_


----------



## The SC

Penguin said:


> You do understand the qualitative difference between an agreement on policy and a signed and ratified treaty?
> Also, if so, why not withdraw from / reject UNCLOS.
> 
> .


I do understand it if you want to make it a difference, hope you understand as well that the agreement was breached once and the law was also breached once.. at least from the Chinese point of view this is logical.. you can't have an important agreement with them and then breach it anytime you feel like it .. any way it was a message to Trump, that it will be Tic for Tac as far as the one China agreement is concerned, and maybe in general..

Also an important fact to note; it is more about the information the drone carried than the drone itself, China made a point about its security by letting the US know that it was playing in its backyard.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Place Of Space

BoQ77 said:


> The world saw that China ship shadowed the Bowditch and steal its UUV marked US Property in international water.
> 
> China said "We just take and check an unidentified object for safety reason and return it immediately to US" mean they pretend that they don't know it belongs to the Bowditch.
> 
> Could we link your comment on this into "China lied, they captured Bowditch's UUV as punishment for its operations in the past" ?



It depends on what they understand. The coin always has two sides. You hardly get a mono answer. Hope you not disappointed with this reply.



Penguin said:


> You do understand the qualitative difference between an agreement on policy and a signed and ratified treaty?
> Also, if so, why not withdraw from / reject UNCLOS.
> 
> 
> Sure, a lot more responsible. But still, very unlikely to be critical of the way China has handle this (or any) situation.
> The whole idea behind / point of having private media is that there are (and should be) a variety of avenues for a variety of perspectives, perceptions and points of view to be available. The whole choice of wording ("private media run off at the mouth") says enough in relation to that basic principle.
> 
> There is no comparison with Charlie Hebdo (unless you equal the Chinese actions with those of the terrorists, which I am sure you have no intention to do). Have you visited / followed Charlie Hebdo recently? I see very little change. I sincerely hope what you say above about that terrorist attack is not veiled justification or approval of said attack....



Before their editor was shot at head I didn't hear the name of Charlie Hebdo. It defame Muslims' prophet, run horse at tongue, unfortunately the muslims' temper is not that good.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## gambit

Globenim said:


> Now its getting silly.


Yes, it is. The PDF Chinese arguments gets sillier as time goes by.



Globenim said:


> At the request of the parking lot owner any private car can be removed by public and private services and Im pretty sure the U.S. is no exception in that case.


All analogies have their limits. The problem for this analogy is that the SCS does not belongs to China. Claim of ownership does not equate to actual ownership, of which requires acknowledgement by others.



Globenim said:


> Now no mater how many deliberately ignorant and dishonest spins you invent or quote from U.S. regime loyal "lawyers" their spins and lies are not the authority of truth.


Your China rests her claim to the entirety of the SCS upon UNCLOS as well as whatever feeble historical evidences her spin doctors can create.

Those who do not live by the law -- shall die by the law.

US lawyers presented their arguments as to why China was a thief in this event. So far, you PDF Chinese have yet to present your side of the law. Is it because there are no possible credible arguments based upon the law ?

So far, the most prominent argument against the Americans have been that ownership of the UUV is uncertain the moment it was dropped in the water -- because of the unmanned nature of the vehicle and that it was unattended.

There is not a shred of legal principle that would support that silly argument.

Currently, Baidu is testing driverless cars in China...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/tychode...duce-driverless-cars-in-5-years/#17eaae53dad6

If we go by the silly PDF Chinese argument as presented above, if you take one of these cars, what would happen ?

Baidu would go after you with a squad of lawyers proving how even though the car had no person it it, the car absolutely belongs to the company *UNDER CHINESE LAWS*. Then after Baidu got you imprisoned, its CEO will use his connections with the Chinese government to have your family sent to internal exile.

How in the real world can ownership be uncertain by virtue of being unattended is beyond common sense, and common sense is not what we have been seeing from the PDF Chinese regarding this event.

Next that none of the PDF Chinese have the balls to address is the fact that the Chinese ship stalked the _Bowditch_ for days all the way into Subic Bay before committing theft. If the Chinese ship stalked the _Bowditch_ for days, that mean the Chinese knew the _Bowditch's_ routine, which mean the Chinese ship knew all along the ownership of the UUV, which simply mean what happened was simply theft.

It is a good thing that this is not a Chinese forum like the ignominiously defunct CDF. If this is a Chinese forum, the admin staff would have scrubbed all references to the fact that this event occurred in Subic Bay, in Filipino proper, nowhere near China. Of course, there is always the chance that the Chinese member of the admin staff of this forum will take side with his fellow Chinese and remove all references to Subic Bay in my posts.



Globenim said:


> Don't pretend you can judge and teach from a position of an ignorant boy


You want to see a boy ? Go look in the mirror.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Penguin

The SC said:


> I do understand it if you want to make it a difference, hope you understand as well that the agreement was breached once and the law was also breached once.. at least from the Chinese point of view this is logical.. you can't have an important agreement with them and then breach it anytime you feel like it .. any way it was a message to Trump, that it will be Tic for Tac as far as the one China agreement is concerned, and maybe in general..
> 
> Also an important fact to note; it is more about the information the drone carried than the drone itself, China made a point about its security by letting the US know that it was playing in its backyard.


This is not the first time China has snagged equipment from a T-AG(O)S ship. It is also not the first time that USNS Bowditch was itself harrased by Chinese ships (2001-2003). To illustrate the difference, other nations have at times protested her activities (mostly in the contiguous zone) diplomatically but never took any physical actions. 

Ships of this type also aided in the search for MH370, by the way

So, keeping that in mind, IMHO, this is not related to any statements by Trump (who at this time isn't even POTUS yet and who'se policy initiatives are yet to become apparent: at this time he's just doing what he did during his campaign i.e. making bold statements left and right for domestic consumption)



Place Of Space said:


> Before their editor was shot at head I didn't hear the name of Charlie Hebdo. It defame Muslims' prophet, run horse at tongue, unfortunately the muslims' temper is not that good.



Well, I suppose this illustrate the situation for most people (Charlie Hebwho?). It also shows that there will always be people who are actively and specifically looking for / checking if there isn't something that insults their group somewhere. There really is no excuse for this kind of violence.


----------



## Place Of Space

Penguin said:


> This is not the first time China has snagged equipment from a T-AG(O)S ship. It is also not the first time that USNS Bowditch was itself harrased by Chinese ships (2001-2003). To illustrate the difference, other nations have at times protested her activities (mostly in the contiguous zone) diplomatically but never took any physical actions.
> 
> Ships of this type also aided in the search for MH370, by the way
> 
> So, keeping that in mind, IMHO, this is not related to any statements by Trump (who at this time isn't even POTUS yet and who'se policy initiatives are yet to become apparent: at this time he's just doing what he did during his campaign i.e. making bold statements left and right for domestic consumption)
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I suppose this illustrate the situation for most people (Charlie Hebwho?). It also shows that there will always be people who are actively and specifically looking for / checking if there isn't something that insults their group somewhere. There really is no excuse for this kind of violence.



Don't know what you are typing here. Think twice before you input letters.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Globenim

gambit said:


> Yes, it is. The PDF Chinese arguments gets sillier as time goes by.
> 
> All analogies have their limits. The problem for this analogy is that the SCS does not belongs to China. Claim of ownership does not equate to actual ownership, of which requires acknowledgement by others.



You made the silly analogy about leaving cars everywhere you want including others property and police and others cant do anything about it. Don't blame me when Im pointing out how stupid and detached from reality your entire premise of an argument is whatever you where trying to prove with your flawed pro U.S. spin analogies.

Jokes on you much of its does belong to China. Your denial of ownership does not eqate to lack of ownership.



gambit said:


> Your China rests her claim to the entirety of the SCS upon UNCLOS as well as whatever feeble historical evidences her spin doctors can create.
> 
> Those who do not live by the law -- shall die by the law.
> 
> US lawyers presented their arguments as to why China was a thief in this event. So far, you PDF Chinese have yet to present your side of the law. Is it because there are no possible credible arguments based upon the law ?



Our side of the argument is the very law, your silly "lawyers" pretend to base their "arguments" on. Its there. Very explicit and in this regard very clearly not saying at all what your "lawyers" spin out of it. We all know you resort to biased U.S. 3rd party spins because the facts themself don't serve your agenda. Thats the whole point of these spin doctor articles.

They just fabricate their own narrative cherrypicking lines and glossing over the very explicit exceptions to that alleged "protection against Chinese seizing" I already mentioned. The U.S. themself admits to violate them with minced words. Just because your pirate ships deliberately ignore Chinese law and customs does not mean they are not violating them. It should be obvious without the provided exceptions of violating the states laws and customs that this make believe law, as missconstrued by your U.S. spin doctors and the whole "argument" of the U.S. lawyers builds on, would be a silly statue no one would ever agree to and China obviously never did. But these articles are not made for critical thinking people, they are just a farce to fool unwashed naive masses and a propaganda tools for dishonest trolls like you who just use them as a distraction from the plain undoctored facts.

China didn't agree to some butchered interpretation of biased U.S. lawyers of UNCLOS selectively quoting some lines that fit their deceptive own narrative. China agreed UNCLOS, some parts not, but still just UNCLOS. As long as we don't violate that one, no matter how many "expert" opinions you can fabricate, we are acting lawfull and you guys got dealt with legitimately.



gambit said:


> So far, the most prominent argument against the Americans have been that ownership of the UUV is uncertain the moment it was dropped in the water -- because of the unmanned nature of the vehicle and that it was unattended.
> 
> There is not a shred of legal principle that would support that silly argument.
> 
> Currently, Baidu is testing driverless cars in China...
> 
> http://www.forbes.com/sites/tychode...duce-driverless-cars-in-5-years/#17eaae53dad6
> 
> If we go by the silly PDF Chinese argument as presented above, if you take one of these cars, what would happen ?
> 
> Baidu would go after you with a squad of lawyers proving how even though the car had no person it it, the car absolutely belongs to the company *UNDER CHINESE LAWS*. Then after Baidu got you imprisoned, its CEO will use his connections with the Chinese government to have your family sent to internal exile.
> 
> How in the real world can ownership be uncertain by virtue of being unattended is beyond common sense, and common sense is not what we have been seeing from the PDF Chinese regarding this event.



Thats something completely different from your silly first argument about leaving your car unattended on someones else property and not even the police being able to do anything about it.

Baidu isn't sending driverless cars into the world without ever having consulted police and authorities and receiving a permit. Of course the can be dealt with if its demmed necessary. If some foreign unidentified driverless car would be driving on a Chinese street without respecting CHINESE LAW AND CUSTOMS, by prior consulting and announcement of this potential dangerous devices test on a public street to the police and authorities and requesting an explicit permit, you can bet you best piece that its going to immediately taken off the streets by police and private people have all the rights to deny it access to their property including parking lots and have it just towed away as long there is no precedent that makes it a "normal" situation.

I hope you are just pretending.You sound like some hick from the countrside or teenager who has no clue how the 21st century works outside of some Wikipedia parrotting. Sometimes I wonder if you ever even lived in the U.S. and its not all just some Vietnamese village fanboy fantasy.
Theres a very big difference between uncooperative U.S. pirates invading China with some secretive devices lurking around somewhere and test drives of a new but well announced clearly visible device of a lawfull Chinese company that cooperates with the Chinese authorities moving around designated areas. Its silly you even try to allege the same treatment should apply.

Again you can keep crying "freedomland" like a child. The same thing would happen in every European or American city in a reversed situation.



gambit said:


> Next that none of the PDF Chinese have the balls to address is the fact that the Chinese ship stalked the _Bowditch_ for days all the way into Subic Bay before committing theft. If the Chinese ship stalked the _Bowditch_ for days, that mean the Chinese knew the _Bowditch's_ routine, which mean the Chinese ship knew all along the ownership of the UUV, which simply mean what happened was simply theft.
> 
> It is a good thing that this is not a Chinese forum like the ignominiously defunct CDF. If this is a Chinese forum, the admin staff would have scrubbed all references to the fact that this event occurred in Subic Bay, in Filipino proper, nowhere near China. Of course, there is always the chance that the Chinese member of the admin staff of this forum will take side with his fellow Chinese and remove all references to Subic Bay in my posts.


Doesn't take balls to ignore biased spins and fabrications by the U.S. regime to justify their violations. Its obvious Chinese coast guard is nearby U.S. ships near Chinese islands provoking China with violations of Chinas sovereignty. The rest of the story is just unproven allegations trying to pin it against China. Yet it doesnt justify your violations or makes the reaction by Chinese coast guard illegal either ways. Period.



gambit said:


> You want to see a boy ? Go look in the mirror.


You are probably not seeing the irony here either. Talk like a child. Get treated like one.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Penguin

Place Of Space said:


> Don't know what you are typing here. Think twice before you input letters.


It is not my problem your level of comprension is insufficient. Certainly not a reason for me to change. How's the verbal diarrhea?


----------



## TaiShang

*China’s aircraft carrier conducts drills, may head to South China Sea *
Source: Globaltimes.cn Published: 2016/12/24 

China’s aircraft carrier _Liaoning_ held drills recently in the Yellow Sea and will undertake further drills *in other parts of the country’s maritime area.*

China’s first aircraft carrier _Liaoning_, together with a fleet of destroyers and multiple groups of J-15 carrier-borne fighter jets, conducted the drills under the direction of Wu Shengli, commander of the Navy of the Chinese People’s Liberation Army (PLA), according to navy.81.cn, a website of PLA Daily.

The J-15 fighters took off from the aircraft carrier and conducted aerial refueling and air combat exercises on Thursday.

_Liaoning_ will conduct further drills in other parts of *China’s maritime area which includes the Bohai Sea, the Yellow Sea, the East China Sea and the South China Sea*.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## samsara

Globenim said:


> You made the silly analogy about leaving cars everywhere you want including others property and police and others cant do anything about it. Don't blame me when Im pointing out how stupid and detached from reality your entire premise of an argument is whatever you where trying to prove with your flawed pro U.S. spin analogies.
> 
> Jokes on you much of its does belong to China. Your denial of ownership does not eqate to lack of ownership.
> 
> 
> 
> Our side of the argument is the very law, your silly "lawyers" pretend to base their "arguments" on. Its there. Very explicit and in this regard very clearly not saying at all what your "lawyers" spin out of it. We all know you resort to biased U.S. 3rd party spins because the facts themself don't serve your agenda. Thats the whole point of these spin doctor articles.
> 
> They just fabricate their own narrative cherrypicking lines and glossing over the very explicit exceptions to that alleged "protection against Chinese seizing" I already mentioned. The U.S. themself admits to violate them with minced words. Just because your pirate ships deliberately ignore Chinese law and customs does not mean they are not violating them. It should be obvious without the provided exceptions of violating the states laws and customs that this make believe law, as missconstrued by your U.S. spin doctors and the whole "argument" of the U.S. lawyers builds on, would be a silly statue no one would ever agree to and China obviously never did. But these articles are not made for critical thinking people, they are just a farce to fool unwashed naive masses and a propaganda tools for dishonest trolls like you who just use them as a distraction from the plain undoctored facts.
> 
> China didn't agree to some butchered interpretation of biased U.S. lawyers of UNCLOS selectively quoting some lines that fit their deceptive own narrative. China agreed UNCLOS, some parts not, but still just UNCLOS. As long as we don't violate that one, no matter how many "expert" opinions you can fabricate, we are acting lawfull and you guys got dealt with legitimately.
> 
> 
> 
> Thats something completely different from your silly first argument about leaving your car unattended on someones else property and not even the police being able to do anything about it.
> 
> Baidu isn't sending driverless cars into the world without ever having consulted police and authorities and receiving a permit. Of course the can be dealt with if its demmed necessary. If some foreign unidentified driverless car would be driving on a Chinese street without respecting CHINESE LAW AND CUSTOMS, by prior consulting and announcement of this potential dangerous devices test on a public street to the police and authorities and requesting an explicit permit, you can bet you best piece that its going to immediately taken off the streets by police and private people have all the rights to deny it access to their property including parking lots and have it just towed away as long there is no precedent that makes it a "normal" situation.
> 
> I hope you are just pretending.You sound like some hick from the countrside or teenager who has no clue how the 21st century works outside of some Wikipedia parrotting. Sometimes I wonder if you ever even lived in the U.S. and its not all just some Vietnamese village fanboy fantasy.
> Theres a very big difference between uncooperative U.S. pirates invading China with some secretive devices lurking around somewhere and test drives of a new but well announced clearly visible device of a lawfull Chinese company that cooperates with the Chinese authorities moving around designated areas. Its silly you even try to allege the same treatment should apply.
> 
> Again you can keep crying "freedomland" like a child. The same thing would happen in every European or American city in a reversed situation.
> 
> 
> Doesn't take balls to ignore biased spins and fabrications by the U.S. regime to justify their violations. Its obvious Chinese coast guard is nearby U.S. ships near Chinese islands provoking China with violations of Chinas sovereignty. The rest of the story is just unproven allegations trying to pin it against China. Yet it doesnt justify your violations or makes the reaction by Chinese coast guard illegal either ways. Period.
> 
> 
> You are probably not seeing the irony here either. Talk like a child. Get treated like one.


*VERY WELL SAID, Globenim!!*

The US cannot even intimidate Iran in the Strait of Hormuz, why do they think that they will be able to intimidate China in the South China Sea? 

Btw if they don't like this drone treatment, next time they should send the spying drone under clear military clothes instead of hiding beneath the civilian outfits. Just manned up guys!

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## TaiShang

_This is entirely defensive, if true. But you know how US military agencies think; they think very politically and unprofessionally to suit their agenda, like how they try to bring down Trump via a soft coup. 

***_
*
China Reportedly Aims to Send More Missiles to Disputed South China Sea Islands*

24.12.2016, Sputnik News

Beijing intends to deploy more surface-to-air missiles to the disputed islands in the South China Sea, US media reported on Friday.

WASHINGTON (Sputnik) — US intelligence agencies say *they think* China will move CSA-6b and HQ-9 weapons to the contested South China Sea territories from the island of Hainan, Fox News reported.

US authorities has come to the conclusion based on new satellite images from Hainan, according to media report.

。。。

Read more: https://sputniknews.com/asia/201612241048946680-china-more-missiles-spratly/

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## gambit

Globenim said:


> Your denial of ownership does not eqate to lack of ownership.


In this case -- it does.

The goal of providing proof of ownership is not to show proof of ownership but to convince others that, if they have contesting/challenging claims to the same item, their claims are inferior to yours.

If you buy something, which is more convincing, the sales clerk saying that you bought that item, or you showing the receipt containing date of purchase, the price, and even which cashier machine that processed the transaction ? The receipt, of course. The receipt is usually powerful enough that by itself it will discourage me from claiming ownership of what you bought.

Ownership is very much binary. Black or white. Yes or no. One or zero. Either you have complete ownership or you do not. If you have virtual control of %99.999 of the item, you do not own it for real. Either you own the item %100 or you do not.

So far, China's claim to the entirety of the SCS have been lacking. The 'receipt', as in China showing historical maps and a few archaeological artifacts, have *NOT* been sufficiently convincing in others' views. Maybe in the eyes of God is that 'receipt' good enough, but until God Himself speaks up, whatever evidences China presented have not been convincing.

Why does China go to great lengths presenting these evidences, from historical to legal via UNCLOS ? And yes, by presenting historical maps and archaeological artifacts, China have argued ownership using UNCLOS.

Because the alternative is violence. When you present your receipt for what you purchased, you are hoping that the receipt alone will convince me to withdraw my contesting claim. China want a peaceful resolution to the issue.

That means -- that if others found China's evidences less than %100 convincing, China can either resort to violence to control the SCS or withdraw her claim.

So until China can convince US and others in the region that the entirety of the SCS belongs to China, our denial of ownership does equals to complete lack of ownership.



Globenim said:


> Baidu isn't sending driverless cars into the world without ever having consulted police and authorities and receiving a permit.


That is not the point.

The argument from your fellow Chinese said nothing about notifying anyone, simply that if an item is unattended, it is free to be possessed, or at least control, by anyone.

https://defence.pk/threads/south-china-sea-forum.196058/page-760#post-9034019

His argument was flawed from the start.

A road implies rules and order, which further implies authority and control. The SCS is not a road but in reality more like an expanse of undeveloped ground -- like a desert. Leaving an unattended vehicle in the middle of the desert does not get in anyone's way. There are no right of way rules, or where I must park.

So my question, based upon his flawed argument, is that if Baidu leave its car unattended, can I simply take possession of it ?

Our UUV was deployed into the ocean wild. There is no authority figure to notify that it belongs to US. Therefore, common sense takes over. If you see markings on the UUV, clearly common sense suggests that the thing belongs to someone whether it is unattended or not, and you should either leave it alone or at least try to return it to the owner, if you can find him.

China did not exercise common sense. China simply took our UUV right in our plain sight. China was a thief.



Globenim said:


> Doesn't take balls to ignore biased spins and fabrications by the U.S. regime to justify their violations. Its obvious Chinese coast guard is nearby U.S. ships near Chinese islands provoking China with violations of Chinas sovereignty. The rest of the story is just unproven allegations trying to pin it against China. Yet it doesnt justify your violations or makes the reaction by Chinese coast guard illegal either ways. Period.


This event happened inside Subic Bay. Are you denying that ?



Globenim said:


> You are probably not seeing the irony here either. Talk like a child. Get treated like one.


I am treating you like an adult, which is more than you deserve.



samsara said:


> The US cannot even intimidate Iran in the Strait of Hormuz, why do they think that they will be able to intimidate China in the South China Sea?


Yes we can and we have.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USNS_Bowditch_(T-AGS-62)

The _Bowditch_ was once escorted by a US warship and China did nothing.

Further, we armed Taiwan and China did nothing. So yes, the US can and have intimidated China.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## samsara

gambit said:


> Yes we can and we have.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USNS_Bowditch_(T-AGS-62)
> 
> The _Bowditch_ was once escorted by a US warship and China did nothing.
> 
> Further, we armed Taiwan and China did nothing. So yes, *the US can and have intimidated China*.


WRONG! Nope, each of the major powers: CHN - USA; RUS - USA are trying to avoid the direct military clash each other, a clash that may go beyond control and eventually go to the devastating nuclear exchanges. While Clash in words are still benign.

The sane minds within those major powers try to stay clear from such direct conflict. Fear is not the right word to describe them. If they are covered by fears in their interactions, we all won't see Russia going into Syria helping Assad to defend his country from the regime change attempt... we won't see China defending its claim on the South China Sea and goes on with all the constructions on the islands it rules incl. the defensive installations despite all the navy fleet show-off by the USA there. Each major power makes its own moves in many complex arenas but I count the most on the real, physical ones!

By historical reasons USA keeps on selling certain quantity of weapons to Taiwan but at the same time it won't recognize the renegade island as an independent entity either. This pragmatic approach is matched by the same pragmatic one by China too.... but if the USA ever ditches its One-China Policy, then all hell breaks loose!

Fear is simply not the right word to depict the complex relationships among the major powers! Each major power has its own TRUE red line not to be crossed by the others (not that kind of Obama's red line the so-called line in the sand). Always keep this matter in mind.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## cochine

Last update 10:06 | 25/12/2016

*China’s air route to Hoang Sa violates Vietnam’s sovereignty
*
_China’s launch of a regular air route to the airport on Phu Lam in Hoang Sa (Paracel) archipelago seriously violates Vietnam’s sovereignty over the archipelago, Foreign Ministry spokesperson Le Hai Binh said on December 23. _

_



_

_Foreign Ministry Spokesman Le Hai Binh
_


The spokesperson made the statement in response to China’s inauguration of a civilian air route to the airport in Phu Lam on Hoang Sa archipelago on December 22.

Binh stressed that Vietnam has full legal foundations and historical evidence to assert its sovereignty of Hoang Sa and Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelagoes. 

“Vietnam resolutely protests China’s above-mentioned actions, and demands that China immediately end actions violating Vietnam’s sovereignty over Hoang Sa archipelago”, Binh stated.

_VNA_

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## samsara

*Regular Civil Charter Flight opens linking Haikou and Sansha*

By Ma Zhiping and Liu Xiaoli in Haikou | China Daily | Updated: *2016-12-23*





_Passengers board a flight at an airport on Yongxing Island. The first regular civil charter flight
between Haikou, capital of Hainan province, and the island was operated on Thursday (22 Dec).
Song Guoqiang / For China Daily_

*Sansha, the southernmost island city of China in the South China Sea, welcomed its first regular civil charter flight on Thursday (12/22).*

The plane took off from *Meilan International Airport in Haikou, capital of Hainan province*, at 8:45 am on Thursday and landed at *Sansha Yongxing Airport* after *a one-hour flight*.

For years, people had to take a ship to get to Yongxing, but now they have more choices.





_Location of Sansha-Yongxing Island in the South China Sea_

There will be *one flight per day from Haikou to Yongxing Island, where the city government of Sansha is based.* The flight takes off from Haikou every morning, arriving on Yongxing Island at 10:20 am, while the return flight takes off at 1 pm.

The *one-way flight ticket is fixed at a price of 1,200 yuan ($173)*, according to Sansha's official website.

The launch of the civil aviation service was regarded as one of the city's efforts to improve the quality of daily work and life of local residents in Sansha.

Both public servants and their relatives, as well as fishermen and workers on Sansha, can buy tickets from the airport operation company *after receiving official permission*.

Yongxing Airport now operates as both a military and civil airport after it passed a civil industry inspection earlier this month and was awarded an operation license last week. The airport completed construction to expand the facility in May this year.

*Sansha was officially established in 2012 to administer the Xisha, Zhongsha and Nansha island groups and their surrounding waters in the South China Sea.*

In another development, *a new cruise ship, Nanhai Zhimeng*, will make its maiden voyage later this month, *traveling from Sanya to the Yongle Islands, which are administered by Sansha*, according to the city's tourism bureau.

The cruise ship has completed a trial voyage and has seen rapid ticket sales since bookings opened in late November. The ship has maximum capacity of 893 passengers.

~~~~~~~~

_Seasons Greeting and Happy Holidays!_

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## JSCh

*Third cruise liner to sail in South China Sea*
Xinhua 2016-12-26 19:39:33








A file photo of cruise ship "Changle Princess" [Photo: Chinanews.com]​
A Chinese company will soon add another cruise ship to sail around the Xisha islands in the South China Sea, bringing the number of regular cruise ships in the region to three.

The Changle Princess, a 126.6-meter-long, 20.5-meter-wide cruise liner, will begin its maiden tour in March 2017. It is built to carry a maximum of 1,000 people and features bars, dance floors, cafes, tea rooms, shops, and reading rooms. The ship can ferry private cars for tourists who want to drive on the islands, according to operator Hainan Strait Shipping Co., Ltd.

The ship will depart from the city of Sanya in Hainan and make a loop around the islands in Xisha. A typical four-night package will take tourists to the beaches on Yinyu, Quanfu, and Yagong islands, and activities such as diving, fishing, and photography will be available.

Hainan Strait Shipping Co. Ltd. launched the first tourist cruise ship in 2013. It has set sail 121 times, carrying a total of 23,000 tourists. Another company, Nanhai Cruises Company, says it will start operating a second cruise liner, the Nanhai Zhi Meng, later this month.

All three will sail the same route.

The Xisha Islands are a cluster of islets, sandbanks and reefs in the South China Sea. China established the municipality of Sansha in the region in 2012, with its government office on Yongxing island. The municipal government plans to make tourism Sansha's main industry, taking advantage of the area's pristine white sand beaches and breathtaking ocean views.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## TaiShang

*Construction of South China Sea Museum in progress*
(People's Daily Online) December 27, 2016




Photo taken on Dec. 26 shows the South China Sea Museum in Qionghai, Hainan province. The museum combines modern elements with Hainan’s traditional characteristics, and resembles the boat houses of the Li people in Hainan.

The museum’s construction began in November 2015. It is set to open in March 2017. Covering 10 hectares, the institution will display artifacts related to the history, culture and natural resources of the South China Sea, *highlighting China's sovereignty over the sea and the protection of cultural heritage*, according to Ding Hui, head of the Culture Department of Hainan's provincial government.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cochine

East Sea: How can China's irrational arguments be disposed of?

_VietNamNet Bridge -* This article points out the absurdity of the arguments of China and pro-China scholars against the Permanent Court of Arbitration’s (PCA) ruling.*_

_



_

_A photo taken by satellite_


Since the Permanent Court of Arbitration (PCA) constituted under Annex VII to the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) (hereinafter called the "Court of Arbitration") was formally established [1] after the Philippines filled the case against Chinauntil the final ruling was released on July 12, 2016, China has repeatedly stated it rejected the PCA’s ruling and the legal effect of the ruling.

This article discusses the arguments of China and pro-China scholars against the PCA’s ruling and points out why these arguments are unfounded in UNCLOS in particular and in international law in general.

*Argument 1: Exceptions of historic rights*

The Philippines requested the Court of Arbitration to rule on the legal validity of the nine-dotted line and the historic rights of China in the East Sea (internationally known as the South China Sea) [2]. China said that this requirement directly related to its historic rights in the East Sea, in the exceptions outlined in UNCLOS 1982. Therefore, the Court of Arbitration has no jurisdiction to resolve the issues raised in the Philippines’ complaints.

In the ruling on jurisdiction dated October 29th 2015, the Court of Arbitration reserved, did not make a decision about the Court of Arbitration’s jurisdiction for this issue [3]. On Juily 12th 2016, in the final ruling, the Court of Arbitration not only declared its jurisdiction to consider this issue, but also rejected the entire claim on the historic rights of China in the East Sea, confirming the worthless in terms of law of the nine-dashed line [4].








_*China has repeatedly denied the Court of Arbitration’s ruling*. Photo: Pca-cpa.org_


According to the Court of Arbitration, the exception provided in Article 298 of UNCLOS aims to exclude the jurisdiction of the Court of Arbitration for disputes relating to "historic bays" or "historic title", and the request of the Philippines does not lie within the scope of this exception.

Firstly, the East Sea is not a gulf, whether geographically or legally [5]. Secondly, from China's behavior in the East Sea (issuing a ban on fishing, oil and gas exploration and claims to respect freedom of navigation and freedom of aviation), the Court of Arbitration concluded that the nature of the nine-dashed line of China in the East Sea is China's historic rights to the mineral resources here [6].

The concept of "historical rights" is not synonymous with "historic title" which is defined in Article 298. Historic title is attached to the sovereignty of a country for certain waters during a long time and must be reflected in the exclusive control of that country.

Besides, the Court of Arbitration also stressed that the historic title of nations must not be opposed by other countries.

Thus, from China's behavior in the East Sea, the Court concluded that China’s claims through the nine-dotted line can be considered as statements about historic rights and cannot be seen as China’s claims of historic title here. So this claim of China is not an exception that is provided in Article 298 of UNCLOS [7].

Related to the issue of legal value of China’s claims of historic rights through the nine-dotted line, the Court of Arbitration found that the historical rights over the exploitation of biological and mineral resources have been identified in the course of construction of UNCLOS.

So, while the concept of "historical rights" exist in the international law of the sea, but when nations became members of UNCLOS, they have abandoned historical rights to waters to accept the rights of coastal nations for the resources in the exclusive economic zone (EEZ) and the continental shelf as established under the provisions of the Convention [8].

At the same time, the Court of Arbitration also analyzed the provisions of UNCLOS on the sovereign rights and jurisdiction right of coastal states in the EEZ and the continental shelf and asserted that these rights are not synonymous with the concept of "historical rights" formed before the Convention came into force [9].

On that basis, the Court of Arbitration affirmed that the UNCLOS only allows the member states to have sovereign rights and jurisdiction over the resources within their EEZ and continental shelf. Therefore, the so-called "historical rights" that China claimed is completely inconsistent with UNCLOS. Since then, the Court of Arbitration asserted that China’s nine-dotted claim in the East Sea has no legal value [10].

*Argument 2: China has exception of sovereignty over the features in Truong Sa (Spratly Islands)*


*



*

_Photo taken from a satellite on the current state of the Fiery Cross Reef in the Spratly Islands: The Guardian/VietnamPlus_


In the petition submitted to the Court of Arbitration, the Philippines requested the Court to clarify the legal nature of the eight features in the Spratly Islands as islands, reefs or low-tide elevations. According to China, this issue is related to the determination of sovereignty over the features and relevant to the delimitation of the waters in the Spratlys.

China said that under the provisions of UNCLOS, the Court of Arbitration has no jurisdiction to resolve both issues. However, in the PCA’s ruling on the jurisdiction, the Court of Arbitration confirmed a dispute can include many different legal issues, so if one or several issues are out of the Court's jurisdiction it does not affect its jurisdiction over the remaining issues [11]. This view has repeatedly been confirmed by international courts in the previous legal cases [12].

Since the determination of the legal nature of the features in the Spratly Islands is the interpretation and application of Article 13 and Article 121 of UNCLOS, the Court of Arbitration should is fully competent to solve this problem.

In the ruling dated July 12th 2016, the Court of Arbitration made an extremely important decision on the legal nature of not only the eight features requested by the Philippines. Accordingly, after considering the most reliable evidence in terms of geography, geology and geomorphology, the Court of Arbitration confirmed that no feature in the Spralty Islands has enough elements to be considered "islands" as stipulated in Article 121 of UNCLOS [13].

This conclusion means that no island of the Spratly Islands that allows China to have the exclusive economic zone. Since then, the ruling indirectly eliminates China's territorial claims over the features that the Philippines mentioned in its case.

_*Pham Ngoc Minh Trang*_


----------



## samsara

*Statement of the Government of the People's Republic of China on China's Territorial Sovereignty and Maritime Rights and Interests in the South China Sea*​2016/07/12

To reaffirm China's territorial sovereignty and maritime rights and interests in the South China Sea, enhance cooperation in the South China Sea with other countries, and uphold peace and stability in the South China Sea, the Government of the People's Republic of China hereby states as follows:

*I. China's Nanhai Zhudao (the South China Sea Islands) consist of Dongsha Qundao (the Dongsha Islands), Xisha Qundao (the Xisha Islands), Zhongsha Qundao (the Zhongsha Islands) and Nansha Qundao (the Nansha Islands). The activities of the Chinese people in the South China Sea date back to over 2,000 years ago. China is the first to have discovered, named, and explored and exploited Nanhai Zhudao and relevant waters, and the first to have exercised sovereignty and jurisdiction over them continuously, peacefully and effectively, thus establishing territorial sovereignty and relevant rights and interests in the South China Sea.*

*Following the end of the Second World War,* China recovered and resumed the exercise of sovereignty over Nanhai Zhudao which had been illegally occupied by Japan during its war of aggression against China. To strengthen the administration over Nanhai Zhudao, the Chinese government in 1947 reviewed and updated the geographical names of Nanhai Zhudao, compiled *Nan Hai Zhu Dao Di Li Zhi Lüe (A Brief Account of the Geography of the South China Sea Islands), and drew Nan Hai Zhu Dao Wei Zhi Tu (Location Map of the South China Sea Islands)* on which the dotted line is marked. This map was officially published and made known to the world by the Chinese government in February 1948.

*II. Since its founding on 1 October 1949, the People's Republic of China has been firm in upholding China's territorial sovereignty and maritime rights and interests in the South China Sea.* A series of legal instruments, such as the 1958 _Declaration of the Government of the People's Republic of China on China's Territorial Sea_, the 1992 _Law of the People's Republic of China on the Territorial Sea and the Contiguous Zone_, the 1998 _Law of the People's Republic of China on the Exclusive Economic Zone and the Continental Shelf_ and the 1996 _Decision of the Standing Committee of the National People's Congress of the People's Republic of China on the Ratification of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea_, have further reaffirmed China's territorial sovereignty and maritime rights and interests in the South China Sea.

III. Based on the practice of the Chinese people and the Chinese government in the long course of history and the position consistently upheld by successive Chinese governments, and in accordance with national law and international law, including the _United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea_, China has territorial sovereignty and maritime rights and interests in the South China Sea, including, inter alia:

i. China has sovereignty over Nanhai Zhudao, consisting of Dongsha Qundao, Xisha Qundao, Zhongsha Qundao and Nansha Qundao;

ii. China has internal waters, territorial sea and contiguous zone, based on Nanhai Zhudao;

iii. China has exclusive economic zone and continental shelf, based on Nanhai Zhudao;

iv. China has historic rights in the South China Sea.

The above positions are consistent with relevant international law and practice.

IV. China is always firmly opposed to the invasion and illegal occupation by certain states of some islands and reefs of China's Nansha Qundao, and activities infringing upon China's rights and interests in relevant maritime areas under China's jurisdiction. China stands ready to continue to resolve the relevant disputes peacefully through negotiation and consultation with the states directly concerned on the basis of respecting historical facts and in accordance with international law. Pending final settlement, China is also ready to make every effort with the states directly concerned to enter into provisional arrangements of a practical nature, including joint development in relevant maritime areas, in order to achieve win-win results and jointly maintain peace and stability in the South China Sea.

V. China respects and upholds the freedom of navigation and overflight enjoyed by all states under international law in the South China Sea, and stays ready to work with other coastal states and the international community to ensure the safety of and the unimpeded access to the international shipping lanes in the South China Sea.

http://www.fmprc.gov.cn/nanhai/eng/snhwtlcwj_1/t1379493.htm


* * * * * * * * * * * * 


*China opens S China Sea website*
(Xinhua) Updated: 2016-08-04

BEIJING - China on Wednesday opened a website on the South China Sea, complete with historical maps, articles and research, according to the State Oceanic Administration (SOA).

Run by the National Marine Data & Information Service, the Chinese language site has 10 sections that cover basic information, news, historical archives, development and management, expert opinion, law and regulations, a timeline of major events, pictures and videos and Q&A.

"The South China Sea has drawn huge attention, but some information online is not accurate," said Zhang Haiwen, SOA official in charge of international cooperation. "We hope that this website will enable domestic and overseas people to better understand it and learn about the truth behind the 'dispute' over it."

According to Zhang, the website contains not only maps and archives but also exclusive analysis and expository articles based on experts' research of thousands of maps.

Zhang cited that a map often used by Vietnam to prove that it owned the Xisha Islands was actually pieced together by two maps, which have already been obtained by experts and might be used to refute the country's claim.

Zhang said new findings will be published on the website once verified.

According to the SOA, information on the website must first be reviewed by an expert panel and be "comprehensive, authoritative, detailed and accurate."

"The website is founded with the aim of positively publicizing our policies, claims, historical proof, legal basis and international cooperation while serving as a reliable channel for domestic and overseas government departments, research groups and individuals to learn about the South China Sea," said SOA spokesman Shi Qingfeng.

The website has now six domain names, including *www.thesouthchinasea.org* and *www.china-nanhai.org*, due to "information unification and security concerns," according to the SOA.

-----

*Cross-posted at South Front: China Launches Website to Justify South China Sea Claims*
https://southfront.org/china-launches-website-to-justify-south-china-sea-claims/


Other references:

*History and law back China's sovereignty | Document | China Daily*
http://usa.chinadaily.com.cn/epaper/2016-07/14/content_26088896.htm

*The South China Sea Issue_CCTV.com English*
http://english.cctv.com/special/southchinasea/

*South China Sea Arbitration*
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/special/SouthChinaSea/

*NISCS - National Institute for South China Sea Studies*
http://en.nanhai.org.cn/

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cochine

Last update 15:18 | 02/11/2016

*Chinese officials cannot incessantly talk about 'the nine-dash line'
*
_VietNamNet Bridge –* International experts said that the recent ruling released by the Permanent Court of Arbitration (PCA) has strongly changed debate on the issue of the East Sea, especially among Chinese scholars and officials.*_


_



_



_China’s illegal runway on the Fiery Cross reef in Vietnam’s Truong Sa (Spratly Islands). Photo: CSIS
_




The dispute resolution measures provided under the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) and other legal frameworks should be considered an important measure (besides political and diplomatic measures) to solve territorial water disputes. More importantly, when a ruling is issued by the fair and reputable judges, it should be obeyed by state members. This is the view that was emphasized in both important events related to the East Sea (internationally known as the South China Sea) last week [1].

*Powerful impact*

In July, the Permanent Court of Arbitration (PCA) was established under the petition of the Philippines government. It released a ruling consisting of 3 main groups of contents. 

Firstly, the Court of Arbitration rejected the claim of historic rights and sovereignty claims of China’s 9-dash line. 

Secondly, the Court of Arbitration declared that all the features in the Spratlys Islands have not reached the legal status of an "island", meaning that no feature shall enjoy the exclusive economic zone (EEZ) of 200 nautical miles. 

Thirdly, the Court of Arbitration considered the actions of China not military operations and violating several provisions of the UNCLOS, exacerbating the tensions in the East Sea.

International experts said that the recent ruling released by the Permanent Court of Arbitration (PCA) has strongly changed debates on the issue of the East Sea, especially Chinese scholars and officials.

They no longer have the right to criticize other countries and claim China’s "indisputable sovereignty" in the waters within the "nine-dash line". This line has been completely erased from the international map.

Regarding the legal field, MSc. Pham Ngoc Minh Trang, a lecturer of the Faculty of International Relations, University of Social Sciences and Humanities, HCM City, also referred to several cases in which a country did not participate in and did not comply with the Court's ruling: Nicaragua's case with the US, which was the party that refused to participate in (1986), and most recently the lawsuit between the Netherlands with Russia, in which Russia behaved like China today. However, Russia still adhered to the final judgment of the Court.

Conduct of the countries in the absence of compliance with the ruling (especially China) will create a very bad precedent for that country itself. 

Because later on, if China wants to sue a country in the International Court, the defendant can possibly behave in the "Chinese style" and not attend the hearing, causing difficulty for China when it wants to be protected by international law - MSc. Minh Trang analyzed.

*The East Sea cooperation after the lawsuit*


*



*


Through the main conflicts related to oil exploration in the East Sea (2007 in the Hoang Sa – Paracels Islands, 2011 in Truong Sa – Spratly Islands and in 2012 at the South mouth of the Gulf of Tonkin), scholar Kathrin Reed, researcher at the Institute of Peace and Cooperation of Cambodia, insisted that the conflicts are only a part, and does not occupy a dominant role, making the East Sea dispute as the opinion of many researchers.

In other words, the East Sea conflict cannot be interpreted by any single factor of natural resources, trade and sovereignty ... but by a comprehensive view. If only focusing on one element and ignoring other factors, leading to single methods of settlement, it will not help terminate the current instability in the East Sea.

This scholar said, focusing on the relationship of the Southeast Asian countries with China will mean both acknowledging and upholding the ruling of the PCA, and at the same time wanting to use it to fight with China. 

Meanwhile, Southeast Asia needs to urgently work with the United States and other partners - including Japan, India and Australia - to convince Chinese leaders about the value of the stable relationship of China with the region.

Dr. Felix Heiduk, from the Institute for International and Security Policy Studies of Germany, commented on the security dilemma that is appearing in the East Sea and the increased uncertainty for all parties on all aspects of law, military, diplomacy and economics.

Fisheries, fishing management and maintenance of traditional fishing grounds have a very important role in the economy and food security of China but they have not been discussed much on the media. 

Dr. Felix also stressed the central role of ASEAN in addressing and governing East Sea disputes, especially after the ruling of the Court of Arbitration on July 12th.

Reliable and smart solutions will be required by all parties to prevent local conflicts turning into large-scale armed conflicts as well as to prevent aggression from the claimants. 

This solution has the broad support from the Southeast Asian countries in the presence of the US military in the East Sea, as well as the current support of this country and its allies to boost marine surveillance and defense capability of claimants like the Philippines.

During the discussion session, international scholars made different assessments of the impact on policies of the ruling of the Court of Arbitration which was established under Annex VII of UNCLOS.

Scholars said that the ruling of the Court of Arbitration actually had a positive impact on the regional situation, and whether the impact is not the same for all parties, it will create more opportunities for solving the East Sea conflicts in the direction of peace, stability and equitable development in the region.

_*Tran Thang*_

_[1] The seminar "Update on the East Sea 2016" held by the Center for International Studies (SCIS) and the Centre for Strategy and National Policy Studies (CSS), University of Social Sciences and Humanities, HCM City and international seminar "The legal issues related to the ruling of the Court of Arbitration established under Annex VII of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) 1982" held by the HCM City University of Law in collaboration with the Association of Vietnam Lawyers._


----------



## TaiShang

@kecho , bro, please take a look. PH wants you to sacrifice yourself because they decided to get along with China.

**
*
China’s Artificial Islands No Cause for Concern in Philippines – Duterte
29.12.2016
*

Rodrigo Duterte, the president of Philippines stated that China’s artificial islands in the South China Sea waters were not a cause of concern for Philippines.

MOSCOW (Sputnik) — The president of Philippines said Thursday *he did not regard China’s artificial islands in the South China Sea waters as a cause for serious concern and suggested Washington could take the issue in its own hands.* Asked if China’s manmade islands were a cause for concern, Rodrigo Duterte told CNN Philippines, "No, because if it really were a serious concern, the US should lead the way and stop it right in the beginning."

...

https://sputniknews.com/asia/201612291049096794-philippines-china-duterte/

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cochine

TaiShang said:


> @kecho , bro, please take a look. PH wants you to sacrifice yourself because they decided to get along with China.
> 
> **
> *
> China’s Artificial Islands No Cause for Concern in Philippines – Duterte
> 29.12.2016
> *
> 
> Rodrigo Duterte, the president of Philippines stated that China’s artificial islands in the South China Sea waters were not a cause of concern for Philippines.
> 
> MOSCOW (Sputnik) — The president of Philippines said Thursday *he did not regard China’s artificial islands in the South China Sea waters as a cause for serious concern and suggested Washington could take the issue in its own hands.* Asked if China’s manmade islands were a cause for concern, Rodrigo Duterte told CNN Philippines, "No, because if it really were a serious concern, the US should lead the way and stop it right in the beginning."
> 
> ...
> 
> https://sputniknews.com/asia/201612291049096794-philippines-china-duterte/



Nothing special and serious bro, same what China did in Vietnam war, when China shooken hands and get along with Uncle Sam from 1972. Other than Durtete is very naive, his term is not forever..


----------



## TaiShang

*China to release environmental forecasts on three Nansha reefs from Jan. 1*
Xinhua, December 31, 2016

The State Oceanic Administration (SOA) announced Saturday that forecasts on the marine environment of three reefs in the Nansha Islands will be released from Sunday.

*Forecasts for waves, tides, ocean temperatures, winds and tropical cyclones, as well as warnings of marine disasters will be posted daily on nh.hyyb.org.*

The SOA has carried out five projects on the *Yongshu, Meiji and Zhubi reefs*, including marine observation centers and marine research facilities, in order to meet growing demands for services regarding marine environmental protection in the South China Sea, including research and navigation safety.

Marine meteorological monitoring, hydrological observation and routine marine environmental monitoring on the reefs will start on the first day of 2017, the SOA said.

Tsunami and seismic observation, along with special marine environmental monitoring activities, is expected to follow.

The SOA's development of a marine observation and early warning network and its monitoring activities will significantly improve marine environmental protection, island surveillance and monitoring, oceanographic survey and research, as well as disaster prevention and mitigation, an SOA official said.

The development of marine observation and forecasting on Nansha reefs is of much value in the peaceful exploitation and use of marine resources in the South China Sea, and for China's fulfillment of international responsibilities and obligations of environmental protection in the region, the official said.

The move will also boost the social and economic development of China and countries around, the official added.

**
_
And they say China militarizes its own islands? How clueless..._

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Globenim

gambit said:


> In this case -- it does.
> The goal of providing proof of ownership is not to show proof of ownership but to convince others that, if they have contesting/challenging claims to the same item, their claims are inferior to yours.
> 
> ...



We know why you pretend to have contradicting proof, deny history, fabricate lies, act dishonest, biased ignorant and what you try to achieve with it. Your longwinded justification to push your propaganda doesn't change the fact your propaganda is building on these false premises. That just flags you as yet another liar, idiot or ignorant.
*
Our ownership does not disappear by your denial. *

Don't come at us with propganda or excuses based on the premise of denied ownership and expect anyone but the other U.S. cheerleader to go along with it. This subject is not up to debate. Only drivel written for naive and ignorant masses makes it seems like it could be argued, to emotionally ready and convince their own foolish masses into alegiance, not to convince others. It only changes by force or trade, not some dumb reinterpretations and denial of history books and maps and crafty words spins spammed by Vietnamese forum trolls.



gambit said:


> That is not the point.



Oh it was. You made unambigous claims about policing and norms in your host nations society that are simply wrong and should sound stupid to anyone who hasn't spend his entire life in a barn in the mountains or desert. What you falsely claim he missed to say bears no relevance. You blew it all by yourself.



gambit said:


> The argument from your fellow Chinese said nothing about notifying anyone, simply that if an item is unattended, it is free to be possessed, or at least control, by anyone.



First of his argument wasn't that any arbitrary "item" could be possessed or controlled by "anyone" merely when being "unattended". Actually he didn't say anything similar and general like this at all. This is the relevant section of his post:



> If you throw something on the ground in a public area, is the next guy picking it up stealing? And if you leave your car unattended on the road, does the police not have the power to tow it away? China is exercising its administrative right in the water it claims, and an unmanned drone would not enjoy the same immunity a flagged warship does.



Thats a) a statement about sweeping ignorant accussation of "theft" simply for picking up something abondoned in a public space, where its completely normal for authorities to pick up stuff they consider abondoned or displaced at their own discretion, not the one of the actual owner if there even is one, b) a very explicit example of unnattended car on a road and police reaction that lead to your flawed analogies, c) the inequality of an [unflagged] unmanned drone and a flagged warshipped that justifies different treatment like for the U.S. toy drone. These flaws of ambiguity and generalization your are playing on are your craft, not his.

Secondly, just because you drop common sense over board, arguments of others you reply to are not becoming flawed or incomplete. No one needs to add every detail nessessary to dismiss every hypothetical flawed excuses like yours, when common sense and context cover them and makes them redundant to mention or make them completely unrelated to the discussion. Like that the minimum China will obviously expect is a notification in respect of customs and laws before your are sending suspiscious submerged unflagged toys into our administered waters with some silly "dont pick this up" labels. Not mentioning that doesn't even remotely justify the silly analogy of yours to Baidus unmanned cars roaming in China or those alleged freedoms (that don't even exist) of tossing you car around everywhere you want without anyones interference ever not even police in your host countries society .

You just try to misconstrue the entire argument now to make loopholes for more of your silly excuses. And thats a really pathetic tradition linking to post and sources while paraphrasing them to an extend they barely resemble the orginal in hope no one would notice. So is trying to shift the blame after your silly replies blew up.




gambit said:


> Our UUV was deployed into the ocean wild.
> 
> There is no authority figure to notify that it belongs to US. Therefore, common sense takes over. If you see markings on the UUV, clearly common sense suggests that the thing belongs to someone whether it is unattended or not, and you should either leave it alone or at least try to return it to the owner, if you can find him.
> 
> China did not exercise common sense. China simply took our UUV right in our plain sight. China was a thief.



Oh yes there is an authority figure. The one that fished your clutter out of our administered waters. Your continous denial doesn't make it disappear. Common sense says respect our laws and customs or deal with the consequences when playing Pirate of the Chinese Sea. That applies to civil as well as your U.S. navy "civil" vessels.

Saves you all the embarassment and efforts to fabricate excuses when it doesn't work out as expected and cheerleaders can't tout "U.S. navy stands up to China and conducted exercises with submerged drones near not-Chinese not-islands while China did nothing! Papertiger!" as you would have obviously prefered.



gambit said:


> This event happened inside Subic Bay. Are you denying that ?



Subic Bay isn't the entire South Chinese Sea. Are you denying that? See everyone can formulate inappropiate, stupid, ambigous, missleading and loaded questions, intentionally missing and dodging the point and playing at false premises at ever occassion like you.

These U.S. sphere media propaganda spins you are playing at are only be scoffed at and are not worth to be denied. They are written for their own ignorants and fools. Just the usual loopsided propaganda spins the U.S. media produces. Olds "news" to us. Like the regular beating on the proximity of Philipines to Chinas islands to dispute our sovereignty, while they hold on islands like Guam them self or complaining about Iranian coast guard proximity in the Strait of Hormuz. Unfortunately for you we lack the clientele to fall for these spins here so think of some smarter replies.

The event happend close to Chinese administered islands and in Chinese administered waters and the proximity of the comparatively hardly even close U.S. related places your propaganda machine puts all over the headlines to fool ignorant sheep with an incomplete missleading picture, becomes thus in combination with the appearance of the submerged object practically irrelevant. Argue the reality or just parrot your propaganda but then dont pretend you are actually replying to me.



gambit said:


> I am treating you like an adult, which is more than you deserve.


Another Gambit post ending with these snotty brat retorts... some day even you will see the irony.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## gambit

Globenim said:


> *Our ownership does not disappear by your denial.*


Ownership is ultimately by consensus.

When there is a community, inevitably there will be contesting claims on things. Any thing. If you are by yourself in the wild, you can 'claim' anything you want and voila, it is yours. Except, not really. It is not yours until someone else come along and try to make a claim on that same thing and in one way or another, he was discouraged from continuing his claim on that thing.

How many times have people on this forum declared that North America belongs to the Natives and not to 'invading' white Europeans ?

Put aside the legalism for now. The fact that people make that statement, regardless of their hostility to the US, means exactly what have always been acknowledged, that ownership is ultimately by consensus. These people disagreed with the current situation that North America belongs to the 'Americans'. There is no consensus, in their minds.

The historical evidences that China brought on to claim the entirety of the SCS have been found unconvincing. There is no consensus, ergo, there is no ownership.



Globenim said:


> Thats a) a statement about sweeping ignorant accussation of "theft" simply for picking up something abondoned in a public space, where its completely normal for authorities to pick up stuff they consider abondoned or displaced at their own discretion, not the one of the actual owner if there even is one, b) a very explicit example of unnattended car on a road and police reaction that lead to your flawed analogies, c) the inequality of an [unflagged] unmanned drone and a flagged warshipped that justifies different treatment like for the U.S. toy drone. These flaws of ambiguity and generalization your are playing on are your craft, not his.


But it is his fault.

Your entire argument/defense of his post can and will be destroyed by the history of the event.

Yes, the police, or anyone for that matter, can pick up any unattended item by virtue of perception that said item is seemingly 'abandoned'.

But that is not what happened...

The Chinese ship have been stalking the _Bowditch -- *FOR DAYS*.
_
The Chinese ship knew exactly who owns that UUV. Just because it is unattached to the mothership, that does not mean it has no owner. No different than a child unattached -- by hands -- to mother does not mean the child belongs to no family. In my neighborhood, children routinely leave their toys, from bicycles to teddy bears, on my front yard. I leave them alone. The next day, those items will be gone. That is how friendly relations works. I do not need to find out who owns what in my front yard. I know that those things have their owners and they will be removed by those owners.

The Chinese ship have been stalking the _Bowditch -- *FOR DAYS*. _The Chinese ship knew the _Bowditch's_ daily operations and most likely schedule down to the hour. There is no way the Chinese ship is ignorant of who owns the UUV in order for your friend's and your arguments to be valid._ 
_
If Baidu notified the police of their unattended vehicles roaming the city, then it is absurd to argue that those vehicles have no owner, right ?

But by observing who operates the UUV or that driverless car, that is the equivalent of its owner notifying the observer that 'I am the owner'. Surely not even the Chinese police is that stupid.

Do you deny the fact that the Chinese ship were stalking the Bowditch for days, therefore, knew the Bowditch's daily operations ?



Globenim said:


> Secondly, just because you drop common sense over board, arguments of others you reply to are not becoming flawed or incomplete.


Actually, *YOU* did so dropped when you deny the history of the event.



Globenim said:


> Oh yes there is an authority figure. The one that fished your clutter out of our administered waters. Your continous denial doesn't make it disappear.


Authority, just like ownership, is ultimately by consensus. Either you submit to overwhelming force or you vote. In the end, you will have a leader. Consensus.

The immediate community neither submitted nor voted China to be the authority figure regarding the SCS. They submitted to UNCLOS and that convention denied China's claim to the entirety of the SCS.



Globenim said:


> Subic Bay isn't the entire South Chinese Sea. Are you denying that?


Where did I even implied such ?

Even now, you continues to evade the fact that the event happened far away from China, unless the Philippines belongs to China.

The Chinese ship stalked the _Bowditch_ for days, observed its daily operations, and took the UUV in sight of the Bowditch, who was preparing a recovery process of the UUV.

That is theft._ _


----------



## Viet

The Chinese claim the sea as theirs based on one sentence: we are the first who discover and name the sea. End of discussion. Saying such statement as rediculous is an understatement. Normally someone needs to check their mental condition.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## UMNOPutra

Viet said:


> The Chinese claim the sea as theirs based on one sentence: we are the first who discover and name the sea. End of discussion. Saying such statement as rediculous is an understatement. Normally someone needs to check their mental condition.



Other countries can also do the same thing at SCS if they have also capabilities like China to realize their claim ... If not ...we have to accept it as our destiny as Malaysia did ..

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## terranMarine

UMNOPutra said:


> Other countries can also do the same thing at SCS if they have also capabilities like China to realize their claim ... If not ...we have to accept it as our destiny as Malaysia did ..


He refuses to accept this fate thus he wishes the Americans to stick around in SCS, keep dreaming the Yankees will give Vietnam state of the art modern destroyers and having an arms race with China to become the next China. Plus he was trying to tell us some retired PLA general told some German newspaper Vietnam is the biggest threat to China and he actually believe it himself  But somewhere deep in his mind he knows China is and will always be the big boss of Asia. I can smell the fear in him from miles away, it's boring watching him trying to present Vietcongs as fearless fighting machine but not stupid enough to attack or wage war against China image here all the time. "We are brave but not stupid"

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cochine

TaiShang said:


> *China to release environmental forecasts on three Nansha reefs from Jan. 1*
> Xinhua, December 31, 2016
> 
> The State Oceanic Administration (SOA) announced Saturday that forecasts on the marine environment of three reefs in the Nansha Islands will be released from Sunday.
> 
> *Forecasts for waves, tides, ocean temperatures, winds and tropical cyclones, as well as warnings of marine disasters will be posted daily on nh.hyyb.org.*
> 
> The SOA has carried out five projects on the *Yongshu, Meiji and Zhubi reefs*, including marine observation centers and marine research facilities, in order to meet growing demands for services regarding marine environmental protection in the South China Sea, including research and navigation safety.
> 
> Marine meteorological monitoring, hydrological observation and routine marine environmental monitoring on the reefs will start on the first day of 2017, the SOA said.
> 
> Tsunami and seismic observation, along with special marine environmental monitoring activities, is expected to follow.
> 
> The SOA's development of a marine observation and early warning network and its monitoring activities will significantly improve marine environmental protection, island surveillance and monitoring, oceanographic survey and research, as well as disaster prevention and mitigation, an SOA official said.
> 
> The development of marine observation and forecasting on Nansha reefs is of much value in the peaceful exploitation and use of marine resources in the South China Sea, and for China's fulfillment of international responsibilities and obligations of environmental protection in the region, the official said.
> 
> The move will also boost the social and economic development of China and countries around, the official added.
> 
> **
> _
> And they say China militarizes its own islands? How clueless..._



Vietnam did it long time ago.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Cybernetics

I personally would prefer if there were more positive discussions and less normative discussions. As normative discussions are relative and each side has experienced history differently thus have differing views, and we should respect that. I don't believe there is a right or wrong (from a macro historical perspective) when it comes to any issue, only what is and what you desire.

This is a defense forum and I hope to see more discussions from a geopolitical lens. Historical views (not necessarily historical realities) of a particular topic are respectable but quite irrelevant when it comes to helping us understand geopolitical realities. Desires may be historical but realities are not. When discussing the issue of SCS I see normative discussions to be an endless back and forth (often emotionally charged) due to tricky technicalities (we all have common history). Normative statements' purpose is only to establish an open claim for future generations to fight over or to deter future adversaries from making a claim once physical control has been established (else they will be seen as disturbing an established order).

I see China, Vietnam, Taiwan, and Philippines's historical control or view over SCS as irrelevant. For China present conditions dictate the importance of the region through a few factors such as: breaking containment, securing trade routes, energy deposits, and strategic depth to list a few. China had historical control of certain central Asian territories as well as the part of the Far East but why does China choose to make a big fuss out of SCS currently and not those mentioned territories (even though some may believe those to be historical territories)? Because they don't serve the current realities very well. If we look only at historical views we will never understand what will happen or the nature of the situation. Many have miss judged the reaction of China to Philippines when they chose to de-escalate confrontations. China opened these waters to Filipino fishermen. Why? Doesn't China say the waters are their sovereign waters? You must realize its a guise for China to peruse its core interests since the reality is China didn't build the current international order so it must operate under the language of the current order. It doesn't really care about disrupting the lives of fishermen or securing all the oil but it does care about strategic depth and security much like how the US managed to remove all great powers's influence from the Caribbeans in the 19th century but allowed colonial powers to keep their island assets, China views it the same way.

In the eyes of the universe no one is right, only who has might.


----------



## cochine

Last update 01:59 | 01/01/2017

*French magazine carries special edition on East Sea
*
_French magazine Francophonie Actualites recently released a special issue on the East Sea and the sovereignty of Truong Sa (Spratly) and Hoang Sa (Paracel) archipelagos._


_




_


The first 77 pages focus on writings, speeches, and interviews concerning Vietnam’s sovereignty over the Truong Sa and Hoang Sa archipelagos.

The next part reviews the history of the East Sea and asserts Vietnam’s sovereignty over these islands using international data and documents.

There are also articles and speeches on the reasons for the current tension in the East Sea, the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), the significance of the Permanent Court of Arbitration (PCA) ruling in the Philippines’ suit against China, and assessments of and solutions for developments in the region.

_VOV_

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

UMNOPutra said:


> Other countries can also do the same thing at SCS if they have also capabilities like China to realize their claim ... If not ...we have to accept it as our destiny as Malaysia did ..


Do what you like but please don't bother other people.


----------



## TaiShang

*Carrier-born aircrafts of Chinese military exercise on South China Sea*

(CRI Online) 13:30, January 03, 2017





The fighter "Flying Shark" ready for takeoff on the deck of China's first aircraft carrier, the Liaoning, during a training mission in the South China Sea on January 2, 2017. The carrier took part in a multi-tasking training exercise involving the Jian-15 aircraft and on board helicopters. [Photo: chinanews.com]





The "Flying Shark" jet fighter takes off from the deck on a signal given by a crew member. Refueling in the sky and air-defense confrontation were also part of the training exercise. [Photo: chinanews.com]





The formation led by the first Chinese aircraft carriers, the Liaoning, in the South China Sea for a training mission on January 2, 2017. [Photo: chinanews.com]





Aircraft on board the Liaoning, China's first aircraft carrier, in the South China Sea during a training mission on January 2, 2017. [Photo:CCTV]






An aerial view of the Liaoning, China's first aircraft carrier, in the South China Sea during a training mission on January 2, 2017. [Photo: t.people.com.cn]

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Viet

terranMarine said:


> He refuses to accept this fate thus he wishes the Americans to stick around in SCS, keep dreaming the Yankees will give Vietnam state of the art modern destroyers and having an arms race with China to become the next China. Plus he was trying to tell us some retired PLA general told some German newspaper Vietnam is the biggest threat to China and he actually believe it himself  But somewhere deep in his mind he knows China is and will always be the big boss of Asia. I can smell the fear in him from miles away, it's boring watching him trying to present Vietcongs as fearless fighting machine but not stupid enough to attack or wage war against China image here all the time. "We are brave but not stupid"


congrats. I see you are one of many loyal readers of my posts. too bad, the mods here delete my posts quicker than anyone can react. but ok, I will soften the tone a bit. stay tune my zhongguo friend.


----------



## Globenim

gambit said:


> Ownership is ultimately by consensus.
> 
> When there is a community, inevitably there will be contesting claims on things. Any thing. If you are by yourself in the wild, you can 'claim' anything you want and voila, it is yours. Except, not really. It is not yours until someone else come along and try to make a claim on that same thing and in one way or another, he was discouraged from continuing his claim on that thing.
> 
> How many times have people on this forum declared that North America belongs to the Natives and not to 'invading' white Europeans ?
> 
> Put aside the legalism for now. The fact that people make that statement, regardless of their hostility to the US, means exactly what have always been acknowledged, that ownership is ultimately by consensus. These people disagreed with the current situation that North America belongs to the 'Americans'. There is no consensus, in their minds.
> 
> The historical evidences that China brought on to claim the entirety of the SCS have been found unconvincing. There is no consensus, ergo, there is no ownership.



Your unsubstantial longwinded excuses, your perception of a concensus or nonexistence of it, nor your denial are relevant.

*Our ownership does not disappear by your denial*, no matter how many layers and facets you wrap arround your expression or justifcation of your denial.

Make this the premise of your arguments and I say nice try troll.



gambit said:


> But it is his fault.
> 
> Your entire argument/defense of his post can and will be destroyed by the history of the event.



Hold it boy, your invented "stalking" narrative, doesn't excuse all those unrelated stupid arguments you already made that blew up, nor does it excuse your attempts to paraphrase him to rescue your failing argument. All your car related arguments/analogies you made to defend your biased position where detached from reality and just silly. Anyone with a some basic common sense can see that. Your paraphrasing attempts can be seen quote on quote in my previous posts. You cant just brush that away, with such a cheap dodge.

Neither are his actually pretty common sense arguments "destroyed" by alleging completely new aspects to the story to invalidate his arguments relevance. It's clear you went along with the anaolgy and tried to beat him and then me with his own arguments and dragging the analogy along up to the Baidu nonsense where it just blew up when you started talking like someone who lives in the mountains. Now you try to change the premises and imply the entire anaolgy could not be applied in first place because the situation was different? Thats not argueing anymore. That's just wiggling in a grave you dug yourself. Get over it, you blew it.

Now your biased and ignorant narrative is not becoming any more valid by calling it "history of the event". The whole stalking narrative is at best a spin on the fact that this is was a regular Chinese partrol boat and if anyone it was the U.S. ships lingering and stalking around Chinese islands and ships, not vice versa. The rest plain and simple unproven allegations from the provocateur and defensive cheerleaders forging excuses.

But then would you agree that the U.S. navy "civilian" ship knew or as "professionals" should have been aware they where provoking China with their missbehavior? Or will you deny that even after claiming they knew they where allegedly followed by Chinese authorities because of their obvious suspiscious behavior around and in Chinese administered waters where common sense would expect them not to do that without expecting consequences and appropiate measures? Something tells me you won't.



gambit said:


> Authority, just like ownership, is ultimately by consensus. Either you submit to overwhelming force or you vote. In the end, you will have a leader. Consensus.
> 
> The immediate community neither submitted nor voted China to be the authority figure regarding the SCS. They submitted to UNCLOS and that convention denied China's claim to the entirety of the SCS.



You played dumb asked for the authority. You got it.
Its up to you to deny it. But don't pretend you don't know now.

Again your, as you refer to yourself with "the community", denial does not change our ownership. Common sense say if it belongs to China and or China exercises authority over it, China is the authority you should consult if you want to send your toy drones into Chinese administered waters. Whether you feign ignorance, lack common sense or pretend to be dumb, the authorities are going to deal with any disrespect of our customs and laws as they see fit either way.

Again China does not care about your biased U.S. propaganda reinterpretation of UNCLOS cases nor anyone else beyond the facts its just more platitudes to roll your eyes over, no matter where and how you try to slip it into your arguments pretending you are talking about facts rather than biased missleading U.S. opinion pieces. China respects only the provisions on UNCLOS it agreed uppon that do not conflict with these claims nor these concrete actions (not denying we **** up and step over it sometimes like anyone else) not your opinion pieces.



gambit said:


> Where did I even implied such ?


Its explained right in the next sentence.



gambit said:


> Even now, you continues to evade the fact that the event happened far away from China, unless the Philippines belongs to China.


By "far away from China" you mean of course the fact that it happen close those Chinas islands and in Chinese administered waters. You can go on dodging that the fact all day, this isn't a mainstream land of the free roaming sheep blog, its a forum where people understand the context. You desperate attempts to keep spinning it to the U.S. propaganda narrative that is trying to paint a false picture in the head of ignorants, is kind of futile with people that know the geographic situation.

We are now approaching the circle where the Vietnamese trolls keep repeating ignorant talking points over and over again it seems.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## UMNOPutra

Viet said:


> Do what you like but please don't bother other people.



Our Prime Minister Najib Razak and his Malays party UMNO is very-very smart .. Based on his realistic and pragmatic approach ..If we have no capabilities to fight with China .. It would be better for Malaysia to be a "Slave" to China as long as Malaysia can survive as a Malay State .. ....


----------



## gambit

Globenim said:


> Your unsubstantial longwinded excuses, your perception of a concensus or nonexistence of it, nor your denial are relevant.
> 
> *Our ownership does not disappear by your denial*, no matter how many layers and facets you wrap arround your expression or justifcation of your denial.


Yes, it does.

Here is an excellent analysis on why China's claim to the entirety of the SCS is deemed absurd in both historical and legal perspectives. Third paragraph.

http://www.worldaffairsjournal.org/article/historical-fiction-china’s-south-china-sea-claims


> China’s claim to the Spratlys on the basis of history runs aground on the fact that the region’s past empires did not exercise sovereignty.


This means past Chinese empires were actually suzerain powers, not sovereign powers, over territories that these empires controlled.



> ...in its territorial disputes with neighboring India, Burma, and Vietnam, Beijing always took the position that its land boundaries were never defined, demarcated, and delimited. But now, when it comes to islands, shoals, and reefs in the South China Sea, Beijing claims otherwise. In other words, China’s claim that its land boundaries were historically never defined and delimited stands in sharp contrast with the stance that China’s maritime boundaries were always clearly defined and delimited.


China's multiple claims regarding other territorial disputes contradicts each other. This undermines the validity of her claim to the entirety of the SCS.



> ...sovereignty is a post-imperial notion ascribed to nation-states, not ancient empires


If China claims to be a sovereign nation-state under modern day's political status and geographical boundaries, then China cannot, with any degree of validity, to be able to transfer past suzerain authority to modern day's territories.

China's ownership claim to the entirety of the SCS is essentially smoke.



Globenim said:


> Hold it boy, your invented "stalking" narrative,...


Hold it, boy. There is no invention here.

Credit to Stratfor. Here is the map of where the theft occurred.






The location is nowhere off China's coast or within or near China's territorial waters, other than the already denied interpretation that the SCS is China's property.

The distance means the Chinese ship pretty much stalked the _Bowditch_. Wait until the right time when the _Bowditch_ was vulnerable, the stole the UUV in clear view when the unarmed civilian crew could do nothing to resist.

The Chinese ship knew who was the owner of the UUV. It was theft.



Globenim said:


> But then would you agree that the U.S. navy "civilian" ship knew or as "professionals" should have been aware they where provoking China with their missbehavior? Or will you deny that even after claiming they knew they where allegedly followed by Chinese authorities because of their obvious suspiscious behavior around and in Chinese administered waters where common sense would expect them not to do that without expecting consequences and appropiate measures? Something tells me you won't.


So essentially, you are saying that China will do whatever she want anyway. Never mind that Chinese authority over the SCS is in dispute. Whatever anyone do inside these disputed waters, China can take it as 'provocation', even when the ship is clearly unarmed and civilian status.

Back in '01, the _Bowditch_ had an armed escort and China did nothing.

The SCS does not belong to China. Whatever the USN does in the SCS is within legal rights of all countries, whether they have business traversing the sea or not.



Globenim said:


> Common sense say if it belongs to China and or China exercises authority over it, China is the authority you should consult if you want to send your toy drones into Chinese administered waters.


That is true. That would be common sense. But only if there is consensus that the SCS belongs to China, which there is no such consensus. Start shooting at the ships who can shoot back and find out.


----------



## cirr

Time for some pics of CCG vessels 

CCG 3174 and CCG 3171





CCG 46301





CCG 46302





CCG 46112





CCG 31303





CCG XXXXX





Tip of the iceberg...Sausage making has just started...Let's have fun in the SCS for 100 years...

CCG 2304





CCG 3901

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Han Patriot

See, now the SCS issue is all quiet and dandy. Told you guys right, the International Court rulings will change nothing...China will just ignore it.

It's all about power...

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## gambit

Han Warrior said:


> See, now the SCS issue is all quiet and dandy. Told you guys right, the International Court rulings will change nothing...*China will just ignore it.*
> 
> It's all about power...


No one ever -- *EVER* -- believed, not even an atom's worth of hope, that China will agree to any external judgement. Nevertheless, China has to go thru the motions anyway to maintain the facade that China is a responsible power. We all agree with you that Chinese control of the SCS will be thru military power, not by legal consent. Since China elected to go thru these motions, we are obliged to do the same. We enlist historians and legal experts to present our case to China knowing full well that China will these papers as toilet papers.

But in the end, no matter how much China claim ownership, the SCS will remain free for everyone and the US will ensure it.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Globenim

gambit said:


> Yes, it does.
> .



No it does not. We all know you have your opinions and making excuses for them, from biased interpretation of the legal situation to attempts to change history with their fresh convenient interpretations. Some putting up a more professional, some less.

But the layer of exuses to justify it are irrelevant, *our ownership does not disappear by your denial. *

Make this the premise of your arguments and I say nice try troll.



gambit said:


> Hold it, boy. There is no invention here.
> .



Until you find something better than a map that just illustrates my positon about the missleading "Subic Bay" propaganda spin and does not even touch on your invented "stalking" narrative and its allegations against the Chinese patrol boat, which obviously just tries to distract from the reality of the suspiscious and provocative behavior by the U.S. vessels themself, like the Subic Bay spin tries to distract from the realy relevant geographic Chinese landmarks, yes it remains your invention.

The map underlines the close proximity to the Chinese islands and how deep they reach into the Chinese administered waters with their ever increasing distances to some inceasingly irrelevant location that just served as a diversion from the beginning. It destroys the "in Subic Bay" spin you try to push, the "about 50 miles near Subic Bay"spin and the "about 100 miles near Subic Bay" spin and mabe tommorows 150 miles spin, when you know whats right on the other side ofit, if you are not already inside. And we all do know. The close proximity to Chinese islands and administered waters confirms their provocative approach to us, not vice versa. This is evidence the U.S. ship and their toy drone where intentionally trying to disrepect our law and customs and provoke a reaction in spite of a regular patrol already observing their suspicious behavior. Whether they play the victim now because showing off failed or that was they goal from the start.

I just told you we know the geographic context. The U.S. propaganda "Subic Bay" spin you cling to only works on ignorant people and thats what its aimed at. Not Chinese. Fooling "free thinking" sheep at home with a farce.

So we are back to the justified reaction by the Chinese navy doing its job and fishing out your suspiscious clutter from Chinese administered waters, while you guys are whining about it.

If you want to argue you can act like a brute and disrespect the laws and customs and authorities by flashing guns at them, so be it. Don't assume it will always works out as you wish.



gambit said:


> So essentially, you are saying that China will do whatever she want anyway. Never mind that Chinese authority over the SCS is in dispute. Whatever anyone do inside these disputed waters, China can take it as 'provocation', even when the ship is clearly unarmed and civilian status.
> .



No thats essentially you deliberately saying something completely different and stupid and disregarding everything I actually said probably because its sounds too much like common sense and inconveniently in favour of the Chinese camp.

I repeat it for probably the fourth time, respect our customs and laws when you send clearly concealed unflagged submerged toys into our administered waters or you will face consquences as according to those customs and laws, just like when you deal with any other country especially when you are on the watchlist for being povocative problem children that keep testing our patience. A "civilian" sticker on your not really military icbm speeding at us or your not really military appropiated submerged drone lurking around in our waters or not real military navy vessels tiptoeing around Chinese islands and yelling not to provoke anyone or violating anyones sovereignty, will not protect you from lawfull and appropiate consqueuences.

All something the U.S. navy force knew about, when they decided to go along with their provocation. We are not to blame for your host countries irresponsibilities.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## gambit

Globenim said:


> our ownership does not disappear by your denial.


Yes, it does. Poof...!!!



Globenim said:


> ...yes it remains your invention.


The true invention is somehow China 'owns' the entirety of the SCS.

There is no way China is going to convince Asia that the SCS belongs to China, even by historical evidences, which were flimsy to start. The rest of your argument regarding laws and customs rests upon this (false) premise and will be, and have been, discarded.

Since China is determined to make possession, or rather to take possession, by force, the US will have no problems meeting China on that arena. For now, the Chinese populace can take pride that the PLAN apparently embarrassed the US, but in the long run, the PLAN will remain as nothing more than a schoolyard bully easily deterred by someone willing to stand up for what is right for Asia, namely the freedom to navigate the SCS without harassment. That someone is US and we will make good on that front.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Globenim

gambit said:


> Yes, it does. Poof...!!!
> 
> The rest of your argument regarding laws and customs rests upon this (false) premise and will be, and have been, discarded.


Thanks for finally making it clear your entire case boils down to your denial of our ownership that has no relevance to us and the laws and orders we respect, after we took out all all the deliberate missleading omissions, your inventions and spins that rest on ignorance and this (false) premise, and your entire filmsy excuses where just another farce to monkey around that, because your blanket denial is far too easy to dismiss for its irrelevance and too unconvincing to pose as a "rationale" to insult and blame China. So we have another unproductive non-argument settled, since as you know your mere denial never invalidated our ownership. I told you right from the very start it doesn't.

The U.S. is always welcome to drop its provocations and start acting respectful, professional and cooperative for a change and enjoy all the freddom of navigation by non-violators and non-aggressors protected by PLAN in the SCS.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## TaiShang

Han Warrior said:


> See, now the SCS issue is all quiet and dandy. Told you guys right, the International Court rulings will change nothing...China will just ignore it.
> 
> It's all about power...



Just the 17th casualty of a kangaroo court that even the US does not respect.

Meanwhile in the SCS...

China reinforces its scientific development program by adding new technologies and safety-security measures such as the now developing floating nuclear energy vessel and ensuring regional safety from piracy and other non-state and rogue-state actors (such as the US).

Hence we have this fresh development (Please note, alleged by the US state-embedded regime media):

***

*China's missile deployment in South China Sea completely reasonable: expert*

By Sun Wenyu (People's Daily Online) January 04, 2017






HQ-9 ground-to-air missile. [File photo]


Chinese military expert Yin Zhuo told CCTV that China's military deployment in the South China Sea is *completely reasonable*, in light of the powerful naval force of the U.S. in the region.

He made his remarks after American media outlet Fox News quoted the U.S. intelligence community, saying that *China has sent hundreds of surface-to-air missiles from the mainland to the South China Sea*. *Fox News reported* that China has deployed *more than 500 missiles on South China Sea islands*, including CSA-6B and HQ-9 missiles, as well as the anti-ballistic missile interceptor HQ-26.

A U.S. official said these locations are “only temporary” and anticipated that* the missiles would soon be deployed to the Nansha Islands and Yongxing Island*. Some people believe China will form a comprehensive air defense system once it deploys CSA-6B, HQ-9 and HQ-26 in the South China Sea, increasing its power to cope with U.S. forces in the region.

Yin noted that the speculation by Western media makes no sense at all, since the U.S. has maintained powerful forces in the region, including bombers and aircraft carriers. He said neither the U.S. nor surrounding countries are the targets of the missile, adding that they won't be launched unless China's sovereignty over these islands and reefs are violated.

Yin said the* U.S. is the one who truly threatens regional stability*, though Western media has been spreading the theory of the so-called China threat. The situation in the South China Sea has been stable since the U.S. presidential election. However, some countries are still pushing issues, hoping the U.S. will maintain its Asia-Pacific Rebalance strategy.

*China will never give up its core interest in the South China Sea*, stressed Yin.

"We will never start a fight as long as others remain peaceful, but we'll fight back when our interests are violated or endangered," he added.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## cochine

Last update 10:06 | 09/12/2016

*All nations must adhere to 1982 UNCLOS: Ambassador
*
_All countries, regardless of big or small, must have goodwill and responsibility to comply with regulations in the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (1982 UNCLOS), Vietnamese Ambassador Nguyen Phuong Nga has said at a plenum of the UN General Assembly._


_



_


_Vietnamese Ambassador Nguyen Phuong Nga

_

The UN General Assembly convened a plenary meeting at the UN’s headquarters in New York, the US, on December 7 with a focus on Agenda Item 73, themed “Oceans and the law of the sea”.

Participants in the event included representatives of UN member states, the International Seabed Authority (ISA), and the International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea (ITLOS).

They discussed the UN General Assembly’s draft resolutions on oceans and the law of the sea, sustainable fisheries, and the World Tuna Day. They also looked into reports by the UN Secretary-General on issues pertaining to oceans and the law of the sea.

In her speech, Ambassador Nga, head of Vietnam’s Permanent Mission to the UN, lauded recent efforts by the UN General Assembly and subordinate agencies, especially those to attain the outcomes of the 17th meeting of the UN Open-ended Informal Consultative Process on Oceans and the Law of the Sea, the 26th meeting of States Parties to the UNCLOS, and meetings of the preparatory committee on the conservation and sustainable use of marine biological diversity of areas beyond national jurisdiction.

Vietnam also highly values the success of the ISA’s 22nd session, efforts to consider reports of the Commission on the Limits of the Continental Shelf, and activities of the ITLOS and other dispute settlement mechanisms to interpret and apply the 1982 UNCLOS, she noted.

She affirmed that this Convention is the most important legal document stipulating all ocean and sea-related activities, and is also a comprehensive and effective framework to peacefully resolve disputes. It contributes to peace and security while ensuring safety, security and freedom of navigation and overflight at sea.

As one of the first nations to sign and ratify the UNCLOS, Vietnam has continually adhered to the Convention’s regulations, respected rights and legitimate interests of other countries, and actively engaged in activities held within the Convention’s framework, Nga added.

Regarding complex developments in the East Sea, the diplomat stressed that Vietnam calls on all relevant parties to exercise self-restraint, settle disputes by peaceful means on the basis of international law, including UNCLOS, respect diplomatic and legal processes, implement the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the East Sea (DOC), and expeditiously finalise a Code of Conduct (COC) in the waters.

_VNA_

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cochine

*U.S. COAST GUARD TO SEND SHIPS IN SOUTH CHINA SEA*
Posted on January 5, 2017






Share on FacebookTweet on Twitter


U.S. Coast Guard was reportedly proposed sending U.S. Coast Guard ships to the South China Sea, a heavily contested region where China is taking a hard-line stance.

“When you look at the East and South China seas, look at China’s Coast Guard, it is really the first face of China,” Coast Guard Commandant Admiral Paul Zukunft told Voice of America.

With no coast guard vessels of its own in the region, the US is in an awkward position in the face of “civilian” Chinese vessels.

“I have proposed to the Department of Defense that if they were to leverage the U.S. Coast Guard, I would look at providing resources to provide the face of the United States behind a Coast Guard ship, should that be a consideration for our approach to the East and South China seas with the next administration,” he added.

To maintain regional order, United States may deploy coast guard vessels to the South China Sea, former congressman and national security adviser Roilo Golez said on Wednesday.

“Will the US Coast Guard (USCG) deploy their ships in the South China Sea under the Trump presidency? It looks like it,” Golez, a graduate of the US Naval Academy in Annapolis, said in a blog entry.

“That will make the game in the South China Sea more exiting. Another pushback in the making,” he said.
http://tankler.com/u-s-coast-guard-to-send-ships-in-south-china-sea-11484

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TaiShang

*Liaoning aircraft carrier training in South China Sea*

By Sun Wenyu (People's Daily Online) January 05, 2017




China's Liaoning aircraft carrier is currently training in the South China Sea. According to Foreign Ministry spokesperson Geng Shuang, the carrier and accompanying ships are testing weapons and equipment as well as running exercises.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## UMNOPutra

TaiShang said:


> J
> *China's missile deployment in South China Sea completely reasonable: expert*
> 
> By Sun Wenyu (People's Daily Online) January 04, 2017
> 
> Chinese military expert Yin Zhuo told CCTV that China's military deployment in the South China Sea is *completely reasonable*, in light of the powerful naval force of the U.S. in the region.
> 
> He made his remarks after American media outlet Fox News quoted the U.S. intelligence community, saying that *China has sent hundreds of surface-to-air missiles from the mainland to the South China Sea*. *Fox News reported* that China has deployed *more than 500 missiles on South China Sea islands*, including CSA-6B and HQ-9 missiles, as well as the anti-ballistic missile interceptor HQ-26.
> 
> A U.S. official said these locations are “only temporary” and anticipated that* the missiles would soon be deployed to the Nansha Islands and Yongxing Island*. Some people believe China will form a comprehensive air defense system once it deploys CSA-6B, HQ-9 and HQ-26 in the South China Sea, increasing its power to cope with U.S. forces in the region.
> 
> Yin noted that the speculation by Western media makes no sense at all, since the U.S. has maintained powerful forces in the region, including bombers and aircraft carriers. He said neither the U.S. nor surrounding countries are the targets of the missile, adding that they won't be launched unless China's sovereignty over these islands and reefs are violated.
> 
> Yin said the* U.S. is the one who truly threatens regional stability*, though Western media has been spreading the theory of the so-called China threat. The situation in the South China Sea has been stable since the U.S. presidential election. However, some countries are still pushing issues, hoping the U.S. will maintain its Asia-Pacific Rebalance strategy.
> 
> *China will never give up its core interest in the South China Sea*, stressed Yin.
> 
> "We will never start a fight as long as others remain peaceful, but we'll fight back when our interests are violated or endangered," he added.



It is very interesting that the majority of Malaysian Chinese silently support the closer relationship between Malaysia and PRC .. They have also no objection if Malaysia can be a part of a 'Wealthy China ..Wealthy of Greater China .soon ....

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## TaiShang

UMNOPutra said:


> It is very interesting that the majority of Malaysian Chinese silently support the closer relationship between Malaysia and PRC .. They have also no objection if Malaysia can be a part of a 'Wealthy China ..Wealthy of Greater China .soon ....





*Ministry of National Defense confirms submarine stopover in Malaysia*

By Sun Wenyu (People's Daily Online) January 09, 2017






The information office of China's Ministry of National Defense (MND) confirmed on Jan. 7 a stopover in Malaysia by a Chinese submarine.* It was the first time that a Chinese submarine had visited Malaysia, which, according to analysts, is a sign of alleviated tension in the South China Sea.*

The submarine, together with a navy support ship, arrived in Kota Kinabalu on Jan. 3, prepared to stay for four days, a Malaysian naval official told the Wall Street Journal. Kota Kinabalu houses a naval base facing the South China Sea.

The information office of MOD confirmed this announcement,* saying that the submarine and support ship arrived at the port for rest and recreation after completing an escort mission to the Gulf of Aden and Somalia. It was the second confirmed port visit by a Chinese submarine, following a visit to Sri Lanka in 2014.*

A specialist told the Global Times on Jan. 7 that the stopover reflects China's goal of improving its military operations outside the context of war. This puts greater pressure on the performance of China's submarines.

"China serves as a major force for protecting global marine safety. Therefore, it's normal for the country's navy to appear in every corner of the world," the specialist said.

The Wall Street Journal argued that the stopover is a display of China’s expanding underseas force, and a further sign of power realignment in Southeast Asia. However, the specialist refuted the idea that submarine stopovers are a universal practice of all navies, and stated that the Chinese navy's global presence will be a new normal in the coming years.

*The docking of a Chinese submarine - a sensitive underwater craft - at the port indicates a friendly relationship between China and Malaysia.** The specialist believes that China's relationships with ASEAN nations, especially Malaysia, have significantly improved, which will benefit regional peace and stability. Over interpretation and other mischief are unnecessary, the specialist added.*

Another professional remarked that guesses and comments about the Chinese navy by other countries are reasonable, due to the freedom of speech. However, these public statements won't impact China's resolution to protect its overseas interests and safeguard world peace.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cochine

*US TO ARM SOUTH CHINA SEA*
Posted on January 9, 2017





Share on FacebookTweet on Twitter


*Senior Army and Pentagon strategists are now planing for the installation of mobile artillery units in areas of the South China Sea to function as air-defense weapons, if necessary, to knock incoming rockets and cruise missiles out of the sky.*

US Secretary of Defense Ashton Carter said the potential use of existing weapons in new ways is entirely consistent with an existing Pentagon office which was, for the first time, recently announced publicly, Kris Osborn wrote in Scout Warrior, a military news website.

Carter is also the one who made the Strategic Capabilities Office (SCO) which stood up to look at integrating innovating technologies with existing weapons platforms since 2012.

“We could use existing Howitzers and that type of munition (155m shells) to knock out incoming threats when people try to hit us from the air at long ranges using rockets and cruise missiles,” a senior Army official said as quoted by the report.

“Mobile air defenses such as an Army M777 or Paladin Howitzer weapon could use precision rounds and advancing fire-control technology to destroy threatening air assets such as enemy aircraft, drones or incoming artillery fire,” the report noted.

Meanwhile, Pentagon officials said they are stepping up its coordination with allies in the region for the planned weaponry installation said Cmdr. Bill Urban, Pentagon spokesman, told Scout Warrior.

However, officials are clear to emphasize that no decisions have been made along these lines, yet it is one of the things being considered.

http://tankler.com/1us-to-arm-south-china-sea-11596


----------



## cirr

Zhaoshu Island in the SCS, from a pile of white sand to paradise 






Over 2 million trees were planted on the reclaimed lands in the SCS in 2016 alone.

Only China is capable of this kind of land transformation. The like of Viet???

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## terranMarine

one word: terraforming

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cochine

*DUTERTE INVITES TRUMP TO JOIN ASEAN SUMMIT*
Posted on January 10, 2017





Share on FacebookTweet on Twitter


President Rodrigo Duterte has invited United States President-elect Donald Trump to attend the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) Summit in November this year.

According to Presidential Communications Secretary Martin Andanar, the invitation has been received by Trump’s office and and said they will look into Trump’s schedule and will notify Malacañang as soon as a decision is reached.

The ASEAN Summit will be held in November in Clark, Pampanga.

http://tankler.com/1duterte-invites-trump-to-join-asean-summit-11622


----------



## cochine

*TAIWAN SCRAMBLES JETS AGAINST CHINA AIRCRAFT CARRIER ENTERS SOUTHWEST*
Posted on January 11, 2017





Share on FacebookTweet on Twitter


Taiwan defense ministry spokesman Chen Chung-chi on Wednesday said Taipei scrambled its jets and navy ships as a group of Chinese warships led by China’s sole aircraft carrier sailed southwest of the Taiwan Strait.

Chen said the Soviet-built Liaoning aircraft carrier, returning from exercises in the South China Sea, was not trespassing in Taiwan’s territorial waters but entered its air defense identification zone (ADIZ) in the southwest.

Taiwanese military aircraft and ships have been deployed to follow the carrier group, which is sailing up the west side of the median line of the strait, Chen said. “We have full grasp of its movements.”

Earlier, China has claimed the Liaoning aircraft carrier was on drills to test weapons and equipment in the disputed South China Sea and its movements comply with international law.

Pressures has stepped up on Taiwan President Tsai Ing-wen after a protocol-breaking against China came up over a congratulatory telephone call between her and US President-elect Donald Trump last month.

In return, Beijing is speculating that Tsai is pushing for the island’s formal independence, a red line for the mainland, which has never renounced the use of force to bring what it deems a renegade province under its control.

http://tankler.com/taiwan-scrambles-jets-against-china-aircraft-carrier-enters-southwest-11672


----------



## TaiShang

*South China Sea not a problem between China, ASEAN 

Xinhua, January 11, 2017
*
China said on Tuesday that the South China Sea issue never has been and will not become a problem between China and the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN).

Foreign Ministry spokesman Lu Kang made the remarks at a regular press briefing.

*Philippine Foreign Affairs Undersecretary Enrique Manalo said last Thursday that an arbitration ruling on the South China Sea issue will not be on the agenda of this year's ASEAN summit.*

China welcomes the remarks of the Philippine government, which holds the ASEAN rotating presidency this year, said Lu.

The Philippines filed a compulsory arbitration against China at the Hague-based Permanent Court of Arbitration (PCA) in 2013.

The PCA issued a 479-page award over the South China Sea case in support of the Philippine side on July 12 of last year.

China declared the decision "null and void" and maintained that the tribunal has no jurisdiction over the case, which is in essence about territorial sovereignty and maritime delimitation.

*Lu said the South China Sea issue has existed only between China and some ASEAN nations, not between China and ASEAN.*

China is committed to resolving disputes over the South China Sea with countries directly concerned through negotiations, and will work with ASEAN countries to safeguard peace and stability in the region, said Lu.

This year marks the 50th anniversary of the founding of ASEAN, he said, noting that China has always attached great importance to ASEAN's role in regional affairs.

China is ready to enhance dialogue with the Philippines and support its work as the ASEAN chair, he said.

China will work with ASEAN nations to focus on development and cooperation, properly deal with sensitive issues, and push for new progress in China-ASEAN ties as well as East Asian cooperation, said Lu.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cochine

*CHINESE BOMBER FLIES AROUND WEST PHILIPPINE SEA*
Posted on January 11, 2017





Share on FacebookTweet on Twitter


A U.S. official said on Tuesday a Chinese H-6 strategic bomber flew around the Spratly Islands over the weekend as a show of “strategic force” in the disputed West Philippine Sea also pronounced as South China’s, ABS-CBN reports.

The official, who spoke on condition of anonymity said it was the second such flight by a Chinese bomber in the South China Sea this year. The first was on Jan. 1.

The activity comes after U.S. President-elect Donald Trump has signaled harder approach against China when he takes office on Jan. 20, with tweets criticizing Beijing for its trade practices and accusing it of failing to help rein in nuclear-armed North Korea.

Meanwhile, commander Gary Ross, a Pentagon spokesman, said he had no specific comment on China’s recent bomber activities, but added: “we continue to observe a range of ongoing Chinese military activity in the region‎.”

During the earlier days of 2017, China said that a group of Chinese warships led by its sole aircraft carrier was testing weapons and equipment in exercises this week in the South China Sea, where territory is claimed by several regional states.

http://tankler.com/chinese-bomber-flies-around-west-philippine-sea-11680


----------



## GS Zhou

Sea-based drone R&D done! Will be deployed in South China Sea soon.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## cochine

Last update 00:35 | 02/11/2016
 
*East Sea: Forcing China to pay for any expansionist actions
*
_VietNamNet Bridge - All countries are related to the East Sea (internationally known as the South China Sea) disputes need a new approach to counter these attempts to change the status quo of China._

_



_


_The photo taken from satellites shows Chinese missiles on Phu Lam (Woody) Island - Photo: Fox News
_

In a study published in 2013, How New and assertive China's New Assertiveness Is [1], Prof. Alastair Johnston (Harvard University) said that "the recent affirmation" of China largely come from the media’s exaggeration. That firm should be placed in the broader and more permanent context of the "peaceful rise" policy that Beijing has announced.

Three years after this studies was published, based on the acts of China in the East Sea and the East China Sea in recent two years, the above arguments should be rewritten: the exaggeration of the media only reflects part of a plan "to become hegemony" of China.

From the unilateral declaration of the air defense identification zone (ADIZ) in the East China Sea, to the triggering an "oil rig crisis" in 2014, and most recently the deployment of missiles on the disputed islands, it is clearly that China is more assertive and reckless than ever in the East Sea dispute.

The gradually increasing aggression of China is not merely a consequence of short-term calculations or the outbreak of nationalism in China. In fact, China has long been pursuing a long-term strategy, with the ultimate goal is to control the entire East Sea.

*The expansion strategy of Beijing*


*



*

_In May, China deployed a deepwater rig (HD-981) 120 nautical miles off the coast of Vietnam. Photo: Vietnam Coast Guard _


The expansion strategy of China in the East Sea has five main characteristics.

Firstly, the top goal of this strategy is gradually changing the territorial status quo in the East Sea towards China's favor. Instead of trying to swallow the entire East Sea in a move, China began to invade the Paracels Islands in 1974, then gradually occupied the other islands of the Spratly Islands of Vietnam at the end of the 80s. Not long ago, after a clash with the Philippine in 2012, China took control over the Scarborough Shoal.

China hopes that by changing the status quo slowly, they will strengthen the strategic position in the East Sea, as well as create a "fait accompli" to tie the hands of other countries , and at the same time not excessively provoke the remaining parties to avoid a tough, collective response.

Secondly, this strategy is based on "full-spectrum diplomacy”, cleverly using all available diplomatic tools, from the military "stick" to the economic "carrot" and high-ranking negotiations. This is shown most clearly in the HD-981 oil rig crisis.

Beijing sparked the crisis by sending a giant oil rig into the exclusive economic waters (EEZ) of Vietnam, then maintaining the pressure by using a combination of marine vessels and warships which were disguised as civil boats to threaten the fishery administration boats of Vietnam. And finally it conducted “negotiation” diplomatic moves.

Thirdly, China's strategy is mainly based on the provocation on a small scale with high frequency in many different points at the same time. This action helps China stretch the defense capabilities of the enemy and control military escalating capabilities in a moderate extent.

Moreover, it helps prevent the fierce reaction from the group of neighboring countries of China. Because these small countries would think that the price they have to pay when the relations with China deteriorating is greater than the benefits of resistance against the giant neighbor in the East Sea. 

Therefore the really big crises such as the Scarborough Shoal or the HD-981 oil rig will rarely happen. Instead, China has been focusing on activities like consolidating artificial islands and gradually militarized disputes.

Fourthly, this strategy emphasizes the "bilateral" nature of territory disputes to prevent the intervention of other countries such as the US and Japan. 

China will always be stronger than each smaller neighbor, so of course they will want to negotiate bilaterally with each country to maximize bargaining power. Furthermore, to minimize the "players" in the dispute, China will reduce the risk in their plans. Thus, Beijing will be more confident and tougher in handling disputes.

Finally, China's strategy is based largely on the use of the non-lethal use of force to put pressure on the opponent. Instead of using military strength to directly attack its neighbors, China gradually build a solid position in the East Sea to persuade the small countries to subdue China because if conflicts occur, they will not win.

Therefore, China's main purpose is to "win without fighting". The use of the non-lethal use of force includes actions such as show of military strength to deployment of missile-to-air (SAM) on islands.

China has been successful with this "salami slicing" strategy. So far ASEAN has yet to reach consensus on a collective and assertive response before the expansion of China. Moreover, China has been changing the status quo in the East Sea massively. The evidence is that many works were built on islands in the past few years, including runways for military aircraft of up to 3,000 meters long. The proof is that China continues to erode the sovereignty of other countries in the region, but it has not faced any sanctions from the international community.

*Sending a clear message to Beijing*


*



*

_China’s illegal construction activities on Hughes reef in Vietnam’s Spratlys Island. Photo: Huy Phong_


The claimant states and those with interests in the East Sea keep making weak response, sending unclear signals, then China has more reason to continue to pursue its expansion strategies. Otherwise, at least Beijing will have to be more cautious and may be have to reconsider its strategy.

In this context, all countries related to the East Sea disputes need a new approach to deal with China’s efforts to change the status quo in the East Sea. Instead of relying only on the “grand measures” as the Code of Conduct (COC), the joint statements of ASEAN, or traditional military deterrence, these countries should regularly carry out small actions, but concrete and substantive to force China to pay for all the actions causing tension and complication in the East Sea dispute. For example, the implementation of smart sanctions aimed at specific subjects who are directly related to the effort to build up the artificial islands in the East Sea.

China will certainly retaliate. Even so, forcing the Chinese to pay the price for each unconstructive action through concrete and practical moves is still very important. Because it sends a clear signal that to Beijing.

As long as the countries involving in the disputes in and having interests in the East Sea only make vague statements or merely symbolic actions, as long as China still see that these countries are afraid of collision. As long as China still reads unclear messages, as long as China still thinks that its current expansion strategy is the best.

It’s time for these countries to force Chinese foreign policy makers to reconsider their calculations.

*Ngo Di Lan*

_* Ngo Di Lan is currently a doctoral student in International Relations - Brandeis University (USA) and an associate researcher at the Center for International Studies (SCIS) of the University of Social Sciences and Humanities, National University of HCM City. The article is part of a presentation delivered at the workshop on the topic "Militarization the South China Sea and the consequences" held at the Harvard University, USA._

-------


----------



## TaiShang

kecho said:


> Last update 00:35 | 02/11/2016
> 
> *East Sea: Forcing China to pay for any expansionist actions
> *
> _VietNamNet Bridge - All countries are related to the East Sea (internationally known as the South China Sea) disputes need a new approach to counter these attempts to change the status quo of China._
> 
> _
> 
> 
> 
> _
> 
> 
> _The photo taken from satellites shows Chinese missiles on Phu Lam (Woody) Island - Photo: Fox News
> _
> 
> In a study published in 2013, How New and assertive China's New Assertiveness Is [1], Prof. Alastair Johnston (Harvard University) said that "the recent affirmation" of China largely come from the media’s exaggeration. That firm should be placed in the broader and more permanent context of the "peaceful rise" policy that Beijing has announced.
> 
> Three years after this studies was published, based on the acts of China in the East Sea and the East China Sea in recent two years, the above arguments should be rewritten: the exaggeration of the media only reflects part of a plan "to become hegemony" of China.
> 
> From the unilateral declaration of the air defense identification zone (ADIZ) in the East China Sea, to the triggering an "oil rig crisis" in 2014, and most recently the deployment of missiles on the disputed islands, it is clearly that China is more assertive and reckless than ever in the East Sea dispute.
> 
> The gradually increasing aggression of China is not merely a consequence of short-term calculations or the outbreak of nationalism in China. In fact, China has long been pursuing a long-term strategy, with the ultimate goal is to control the entire East Sea.
> 
> *The expansion strategy of Beijing*
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> _In May, China deployed a deepwater rig (HD-981) 120 nautical miles off the coast of Vietnam. Photo: Vietnam Coast Guard _
> 
> 
> The expansion strategy of China in the East Sea has five main characteristics.
> 
> Firstly, the top goal of this strategy is gradually changing the territorial status quo in the East Sea towards China's favor. Instead of trying to swallow the entire East Sea in a move, China began to invade the Paracels Islands in 1974, then gradually occupied the other islands of the Spratly Islands of Vietnam at the end of the 80s. Not long ago, after a clash with the Philippine in 2012, China took control over the Scarborough Shoal.
> 
> China hopes that by changing the status quo slowly, they will strengthen the strategic position in the East Sea, as well as create a "fait accompli" to tie the hands of other countries , and at the same time not excessively provoke the remaining parties to avoid a tough, collective response.
> 
> Secondly, this strategy is based on "full-spectrum diplomacy”, cleverly using all available diplomatic tools, from the military "stick" to the economic "carrot" and high-ranking negotiations. This is shown most clearly in the HD-981 oil rig crisis.
> 
> Beijing sparked the crisis by sending a giant oil rig into the exclusive economic waters (EEZ) of Vietnam, then maintaining the pressure by using a combination of marine vessels and warships which were disguised as civil boats to threaten the fishery administration boats of Vietnam. And finally it conducted “negotiation” diplomatic moves.
> 
> Thirdly, China's strategy is mainly based on the provocation on a small scale with high frequency in many different points at the same time. This action helps China stretch the defense capabilities of the enemy and control military escalating capabilities in a moderate extent.
> 
> Moreover, it helps prevent the fierce reaction from the group of neighboring countries of China. Because these small countries would think that the price they have to pay when the relations with China deteriorating is greater than the benefits of resistance against the giant neighbor in the East Sea.
> 
> Therefore the really big crises such as the Scarborough Shoal or the HD-981 oil rig will rarely happen. Instead, China has been focusing on activities like consolidating artificial islands and gradually militarized disputes.
> 
> Fourthly, this strategy emphasizes the "bilateral" nature of territory disputes to prevent the intervention of other countries such as the US and Japan.
> 
> China will always be stronger than each smaller neighbor, so of course they will want to negotiate bilaterally with each country to maximize bargaining power. Furthermore, to minimize the "players" in the dispute, China will reduce the risk in their plans. Thus, Beijing will be more confident and tougher in handling disputes.
> 
> Finally, China's strategy is based largely on the use of the non-lethal use of force to put pressure on the opponent. Instead of using military strength to directly attack its neighbors, China gradually build a solid position in the East Sea to persuade the small countries to subdue China because if conflicts occur, they will not win.
> 
> Therefore, China's main purpose is to "win without fighting". The use of the non-lethal use of force includes actions such as show of military strength to deployment of missile-to-air (SAM) on islands.
> 
> China has been successful with this "salami slicing" strategy. So far ASEAN has yet to reach consensus on a collective and assertive response before the expansion of China. Moreover, China has been changing the status quo in the East Sea massively. The evidence is that many works were built on islands in the past few years, including runways for military aircraft of up to 3,000 meters long. The proof is that China continues to erode the sovereignty of other countries in the region, but it has not faced any sanctions from the international community.
> 
> *Sending a clear message to Beijing*
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> _China’s illegal construction activities on Hughes reef in Vietnam’s Spratlys Island. Photo: Huy Phong_
> 
> 
> The claimant states and those with interests in the East Sea keep making weak response, sending unclear signals, then China has more reason to continue to pursue its expansion strategies. Otherwise, at least Beijing will have to be more cautious and may be have to reconsider its strategy.
> 
> In this context, all countries related to the East Sea disputes need a new approach to deal with China’s efforts to change the status quo in the East Sea. Instead of relying only on the “grand measures” as the Code of Conduct (COC), the joint statements of ASEAN, or traditional military deterrence, these countries should regularly carry out small actions, but concrete and substantive to force China to pay for all the actions causing tension and complication in the East Sea dispute. For example, the implementation of smart sanctions aimed at specific subjects who are directly related to the effort to build up the artificial islands in the East Sea.
> 
> China will certainly retaliate. Even so, forcing the Chinese to pay the price for each unconstructive action through concrete and practical moves is still very important. Because it sends a clear signal that to Beijing.
> 
> As long as the countries involving in the disputes in and having interests in the East Sea only make vague statements or merely symbolic actions, as long as China still see that these countries are afraid of collision. As long as China still reads unclear messages, as long as China still thinks that its current expansion strategy is the best.
> 
> It’s time for these countries to force Chinese foreign policy makers to reconsider their calculations.
> 
> *Ngo Di Lan*
> 
> _* Ngo Di Lan is currently a doctoral student in International Relations - Brandeis University (USA) and an associate researcher at the Center for International Studies (SCIS) of the University of Social Sciences and Humanities, National University of HCM City. The article is part of a presentation delivered at the workshop on the topic "Militarization the South China Sea and the consequences" held at the Harvard University, USA._
> 
> -------



For all these to happen, Vietnam will do two things:

Vacate the islands it stole from the Philippines and, 

Overthrow the VCP.

In another word, the author is US- loving VCP hater from South Vietnam. 

In the meantime, his VCP boss is in China as we speak.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## cochine

TaiShang said:


> For all these to happen, Vietnam will do two things:
> 
> Vacate the islands it stole from the Philippines and,
> 
> Overthrow the VCP.
> 
> In another word, the author is US- loving VCP hater from South Vietnam.
> 
> In the meantime, his VCP boss is in China as we speak.



Vietnam ís the first country in region claimed, controlled and owned Islands in SCS from long time ago. Pls dont telling yoke here, dream òf China to be boss ís wet-dream for ever.


----------



## TaiShang

kecho said:


> Vietnam ís the first country in region claimed, controlled and owned Islands in SCS from long time ago. Pls dont telling yoke here, dream òf China to be boss ís wet-dream for ever.



As I said above, to become a lackey to the US as mentioned in the OP you shared, you needs to overthrow this:


*Vietnam Communist Party chief looks to cement ties on trip to China*

(Global Times) January 12, 2017

Vietnam's top leader begins an official four-day visit to China on Thursday, a move expected to cement ties between the two countries in the face of uncertainties in the Asia-Pacific region.

*The trip is the first official visit by Nguyen Phu Trong to China after he was re-elected General Secretary of the Communist Party of Vietnam (CPV) Central Committee in January 2016.* Analysts expect the trip will revive bilateral relations swayed by island disputes in the South China Sea, at a time when the future US policy on the South China Sea is unclear following the election of Donald Trumpas president.

Although voices of the claimant countries in the South China Sea dispute have subsided, tensions have escalated in the Asia-Pacific in the past two months, which will deeply influence relations between Vietnam and China and the US and Southeast Asian nations, said Zhuang Guotu, dean of the School for Southeast Asian Studies at Xiamen University.

The two sides are likely to confront and resolve thorny issues such as the South China Sea island disputes and trade imbalance, Zhuang said. "During this trip, Trong is expected to ascertain the actual situation of China and find a way of developing bilateral relations that both sides can accept," he said.

Zhang Mingliang, a professor with the Southeast Asian Institute of Ji'nan University, described Trong's visit as "a trip to hold the bottom line," which is to secure peace with China.

"The first priority of Trong's trip is to cement the relationship with China and to clear misunderstandings," Zhang said.

The promotion of friendly relations between China and Vietnam depends primarily on high-level dialogues rather than social exchanges, he said.

Tensions over the South China Sea issue have eased in the recent months, leading to an improvement in China's relationship with countries in the region.

* "The display of friendship by other ASEAN(Association of Southeast Asian Nations) countries, especially the Philippines, has an impact on Vietnam,"* said Gu Xiaosong, head of Southeast Asian Studies at the Guangxi Academy of Social Sciences.

"China has both land and sea borders with ASEAN countries, so it places a high value on the relations with all ASEAN countries."

*Vietnam is good at dealing with big powers like China and the US, with its flexible diplomatic tactics. In the past three to five years, it has benefited from the relations with both China and the US, which is very impressive, said Zhang.*

* "The essence of the South China Sea issue is the confrontation between China and the US.* Vietnam is attempting to create a balance between the two powers to keep its independence, and it is doing well in this regard," Zhuang told the Global Times.

"Overall, Vietnam cannot get too close to the US due to different ideologies and political systems, besides, China is a neighbor of Vietnam," he added.

*Trade expansion*

Trade will be high on the agenda of the visit, according to experts. China has been Vietnam's biggest trading partner for 13 consecutive years. As bilateral trade continued to expand, in 2016, Vietnam became China's biggest trading partner among ASEAN nations.

China currently enjoys a trade surplus with Vietnam, but figures show that in the past year, there was a substantial increase in Vietnam's exports to China.

*In the first 11 months of 2016, Vietnam's exports to China reached $32.9 billion, with a year-on-year growth of 20.8 percent. Vietnam's trade deficit decreased by 31 percent, according to the Chinese embassy in Hanoi. ( @Viet @AViet )*

China's direct investment in Vietnam also rose by a whopping 112.7 percent in 2016, leaping to fourth place among 68 countries and regions that invest in Vietnam.

"Though Vietnam complains about trade deficit with China and poor quality of Chinese products, it benefits greatly from trade with China," said Zhang.

China provides not only raw materials for Vietnam's manufacturing industry and exports to Europe and the US, but also creates a lot of jobs in Vietnam, which contributes to the social stability of the country, he said.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cochine

TaiShang said:


> As I said above, to become a lackey to the US as mentioned in the OP you shared, you needs to overthrow this:
> 
> 
> *Vietnam Communist Party chief looks to cement ties on trip to China*
> 
> (Global Times) January 12, 2017
> 
> Vietnam's top leader begins an official four-day visit to China on Thursday, a move expected to cement ties between the two countries in the face of uncertainties in the Asia-Pacific region.
> 
> *The trip is the first official visit by Nguyen Phu Trong to China after he was re-elected General Secretary of the Communist Party of Vietnam (CPV) Central Committee in January 2016.* Analysts expect the trip will revive bilateral relations swayed by island disputes in the South China Sea, at a time when the future US policy on the South China Sea is unclear following the election of Donald Trumpas president.
> 
> Although voices of the claimant countries in the South China Sea dispute have subsided, tensions have escalated in the Asia-Pacific in the past two months, which will deeply influence relations between Vietnam and China and the US and Southeast Asian nations, said Zhuang Guotu, dean of the School for Southeast Asian Studies at Xiamen University.
> 
> The two sides are likely to confront and resolve thorny issues such as the South China Sea island disputes and trade imbalance, Zhuang said. "During this trip, Trong is expected to ascertain the actual situation of China and find a way of developing bilateral relations that both sides can accept," he said.
> 
> Zhang Mingliang, a professor with the Southeast Asian Institute of Ji'nan University, described Trong's visit as "a trip to hold the bottom line," which is to secure peace with China.
> 
> "The first priority of Trong's trip is to cement the relationship with China and to clear misunderstandings," Zhang said.
> 
> The promotion of friendly relations between China and Vietnam depends primarily on high-level dialogues rather than social exchanges, he said.
> 
> Tensions over the South China Sea issue have eased in the recent months, leading to an improvement in China's relationship with countries in the region.
> 
> * "The display of friendship by other ASEAN(Association of Southeast Asian Nations) countries, especially the Philippines, has an impact on Vietnam,"* said Gu Xiaosong, head of Southeast Asian Studies at the Guangxi Academy of Social Sciences.
> 
> "China has both land and sea borders with ASEAN countries, so it places a high value on the relations with all ASEAN countries."
> 
> *Vietnam is good at dealing with big powers like China and the US, with its flexible diplomatic tactics. In the past three to five years, it has benefited from the relations with both China and the US, which is very impressive, said Zhang.*
> 
> * "The essence of the South China Sea issue is the confrontation between China and the US.* Vietnam is attempting to create a balance between the two powers to keep its independence, and it is doing well in this regard," Zhuang told the Global Times.
> 
> "Overall, Vietnam cannot get too close to the US due to different ideologies and political systems, besides, China is a neighbor of Vietnam," he added.
> 
> *Trade expansion*
> 
> Trade will be high on the agenda of the visit, according to experts. China has been Vietnam's biggest trading partner for 13 consecutive years. As bilateral trade continued to expand, in 2016, Vietnam became China's biggest trading partner among ASEAN nations.
> 
> China currently enjoys a trade surplus with Vietnam, but figures show that in the past year, there was a substantial increase in Vietnam's exports to China.
> 
> *In the first 11 months of 2016, Vietnam's exports to China reached $32.9 billion, with a year-on-year growth of 20.8 percent. Vietnam's trade deficit decreased by 31 percent, according to the Chinese embassy in Hanoi. ( @Viet @AViet )*
> 
> China's direct investment in Vietnam also rose by a whopping 112.7 percent in 2016, leaping to fourth place among 68 countries and regions that invest in Vietnam.
> 
> "Though Vietnam complains about trade deficit with China and poor quality of Chinese products, it benefits greatly from trade with China," said Zhang.
> 
> China provides not only raw materials for Vietnam's manufacturing industry and exports to Europe and the US, but also creates a lot of jobs in Vietnam, which contributes to the social stability of the country, he said.



No needed in this moment, ... let he do some testing on China. I think he does know well about mentality of CPC. When China is afraid from USA, China could be saying softly with her "comrade" (?). In fact both of you "comrades" were hatred mutual from time 1954, 1974. 1979, 1988...,


----------



## TaiShang

kecho said:


> In fact both of you "comrades"



I knew you hated VCP.

Your kind of people might be a liability first and foremost for the very country you claim to be campaigning for. You have, on the other hand, no practical harm on China and its SCS development strategy.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## cochine

TaiShang said:


> I knew you hated VCP.
> 
> Your kind of people might be a liability first and foremost for the very country you claim to be campaigning for. You have, on the other hand, no practical harm on China and its SCS development strategy.



VCP fought counter all enemies, who invaded in to Viet Lands in the past, France, ÚSA and China (PRC)
.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cochine

*US SEC. NOMINEE UNVEILS ‘DANGEROUS’ PLAN OVER FAKE ISLANDS IN SCS*
Posted on January 12, 2017






Share on FacebookTweet on Twitter


A potentially ‘dangerous’ confrontation with Beijing on Wednesday has been announced by U.S. President-elect Donald Trump’s nominee for secretary of state, saying China should be denied access to islands it has built in the contested South China Sea.

According to The Diplomat Magazine, Trump’s Nominee Rex Tillerson’s ‘dangerous idea’ for the South China Sea was proposed during a confirmation hearing before the U.S. Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

When asked if he supports a more aggressive stance toward China, he said: *“We’re going to have to send China a clear signal that, first, the island-building stops and, second, your access to those islands also is not going to be allowed.”*

China’s building of islands and putting military assets on those islands was “akin to Russia’s taking Crimea” from Ukraine, he added.

Meanwhile, the former Exxon Mobil Corp chairman and chief executive did not elaborate on what might be done to deny China access to the islands it has built up from South China Sea reefs.

Tillerson also called China’s South China Sea island-building and declaration of an air defense zone in waters of the East China Sea it contests with Japan “illegal actions.”

“They’re taking territory or control, or declaring control of territories that are not rightfully China’s,” he said.

He blamed the current situation on what he termed an inadequate U.S. response. “The failure of a response has allowed them just to keep pushing the envelop on this,” Tillerson said.

“The way we’ve got to deal with this is we’ve got to show back up in the region with our traditional allies in Southeast Asia,” he said.

Look at the detailed map for additional information:




http://tankler.com/1us-sec-nominee-unveils-dangerous-plan-over-fake-islands-in-scs-11706


----------



## TaiShang

kecho said:


> *US SEC. NOMINEE UNVEILS ‘DANGEROUS’ PLAN OVER FAKE ISLANDS IN SCS*
> Posted on January 12, 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Share on FacebookTweet on Twitter
> 
> 
> A potentially ‘dangerous’ confrontation with Beijing on Wednesday has been announced by U.S. President-elect Donald Trump’s nominee for secretary of state, saying China should be denied access to islands it has built in the contested South China Sea.
> 
> According to The Diplomat Magazine, Trump’s Nominee Rex Tillerson’s ‘dangerous idea’ for the South China Sea was proposed during a confirmation hearing before the U.S. Senate Foreign Relations Committee.
> 
> When asked if he supports a more aggressive stance toward China, he said: *“We’re going to have to send China a clear signal that, first, the island-building stops and, second, your access to those islands also is not going to be allowed.”*
> 
> China’s building of islands and putting military assets on those islands was “akin to Russia’s taking Crimea” from Ukraine, he added.
> 
> Meanwhile, the former Exxon Mobil Corp chairman and chief executive did not elaborate on what might be done to deny China access to the islands it has built up from South China Sea reefs.
> 
> Tillerson also called China’s South China Sea island-building and declaration of an air defense zone in waters of the East China Sea it contests with Japan “illegal actions.”
> 
> “They’re taking territory or control, or declaring control of territories that are not rightfully China’s,” he said.
> 
> He blamed the current situation on what he termed an inadequate U.S. response. “The failure of a response has allowed them just to keep pushing the envelop on this,” Tillerson said.
> 
> “The way we’ve got to deal with this is we’ve got to show back up in the region with our traditional allies in Southeast Asia,” he said.
> 
> Look at the detailed map for additional information:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://tankler.com/1us-sec-nominee-unveils-dangerous-plan-over-fake-islands-in-scs-11706




US will fight everybody. That's good, in fact, as I view it as a contribution to the decline of an undesired cancerous hegemon in our region.

Look they will also fight with your old patron:

**

*Trump's pick for U.S. secretary of state calls Russia a 'danger'*

(Xinhua) 10:35, January 12, 2017






_　　Rex Tillerson testifies before the U.S. Senate Foreign Relations Committee during the confirmation hearing on his nomination to be U.S. secretary of state at Capitol Hill in Washington D.C., the United States, on Jan. 11, 2017. (Xinhua/Bao Dandan)_

U.S. President-elect Donald Trump's pick for secretary of state Rex Tillerson on Wednesday called Russia a "danger" to the United States and said he favored keeping current U.S. sanctions against Moscow for now.

"Russia today poses a danger, but it is not unpredictable in advancing its own interests," said Tillerson in Washington at his confirmation hearing before the U.S. Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

"Our NATO allies are right to be alarmed at a resurgent Russia," he added.

....

***

China's response is:

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ashok321

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/819771864050384896




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/819771422146867201


----------



## GS Zhou

terranMarine said:


> China is pleased with VN's kowtow


come on, this is just a normal diplomatic visit, which has NOTHING to do with kowtow!


----------



## cochine

terranMarine said:


> China is pleased with VN's kowtow




*Kerry says confident new U.S. administration will stick to same principles on regional security*
By Reuters/Mai Nguyen January 13, 2017 | 05:47 pm GMT+7




Secretary of State John Kerry speaks at Ho Chi Minh University of Technology and Education in Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam, January 13, 2017. Photo by Reuters/Alex Brandon/Pool
*The outgoing Secretary of State believes all disputes should be solved peacefully in accordance with international law.*
Outgoing U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry said on Friday he was confident that the Trump administration would stick to the same principles on regional security as those of the Obama administration.

In reference to the disputed South China Sea, which Vietnam calls the East Sea, he told a university audience in Ho Chi Minh City that countries big or small should refrain from provocation and any dispute should be solved peacefully in accordance with international law.

His comments came after U.S. Secretary of State nominee Rex Tillerson said the U.S. must send a clear signal to China that its island-building in the South China Sea must stop and that its access to those islands must not be allowed. 





Secretary of State John Kerry speaks at Ho Chi Minh University of Technology and Education in Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam, January 13, 2017.Photo by Reuters/Alex Brandon





Secretary of State John Kerry presents a Letter of Intent, to fund the construction of Fulbright University's new campus, to Dam Bich Thuy, president of Fulbright University Vietnam, at Ho Chi Minh University of Technology and Education in Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam, January 13, 2017. Photo by Reuters/Alex Brandon

U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry arrived in Vietnam late Thursday to begin what many consider a low-key visit at a time when all eyes are on President-elect Donald Trump’s team-in-waiting and the future of global politics. On Saturday he will tour the Mekong Delta, where he served as a commander of an American patrol boat during the Vietnam War.





Secretary of State John Kerry, left, shakes hands with Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc, at the Office of the Government, before their meeting Friday, Jan. 13, 2017 in Hanoi, Vietnam. Photo by Reuters/Alex Brandon
http://e.vnexpress.net/news/news/ke...-principles-on-regional-security-3528114.html


----------



## TaiShang

*South China Sea Framework Expected to Conclude in 1st Half of 2017 *

2017-01-26 ：IPP Review
January 26, 2017

By YAN Yan

While attending the ASEAN foreign ministers’ meeting in Vientiane, Laos on July 25, 2016, Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi put forward four visions on the Code of Conduct (COC) consultation, *one of which was that China and ASEAN states would finish their consultation on the COC outline in the first half of 2017 without disturbances*. Wang remarked that China also planned to fast-track the COC consultation. This proposal was warmly welcomed and supported by the ASEAN states. 

On January 17-18, 2017, Chinese Vice Foreign Minister Liu Zhenmin moderated the 20th China-Philippines Foreign Ministry Consultation together with his Philippine counterpart Enrique A. Manalo, and paid a visit to Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte. The two sides confirmed once again that they would actively advance the COC consultation and finish the COC framework in the first half of 2017. 

The COC consultation has witnessed ups and downs since November 29, 2004, when leaders of China and ASEAN states signed the “Plan of Action to Implement the Joint Declaration on ASEAN-China Strategic Partnership for Peace and Prosperity,” and made it clear that they would formulate the COC on the basis of consensus. *Thanks to the relentless efforts of China and some ASEAN states over the recent years, the COC consultation process has yielded a series of “early harvest” results, and has entered the stage of consultation on “important and complex issues.”* 

Since the three-year-long South China Sea arbitration came to a close on July 12, 2016, the Chinese government has taken a series of effective responses in terms of diplomacy, law, and public opinion, which has helped alleviate ensuing tensions and bring relevant disputants back to the track of resolving disputes through negotiation, consultation, and dialogue.* However, the ruling’s influence on international law — including the regimes of islands, historic rights and compulsory dispute settlement mechanisms — was not obliterated and may become more evident and widespread over time.* 

Besides the legal impact, other disputants may take new measures to consolidate their respective claims on the basis of the ruling, which says Chinese maritime features in the Spratly Islands are incapable of generating an entitlement to a 200-nautical-mile exclusive economic zone, and that there is hence no overlapping maritime zones between China and the Philippines in the South China Sea. 

For example, Vietnam, the Philippines, Malaysia, and Brunei may make submissions to the Commission on the Limits of the Continental Shelf (CLCS) concerning the outer limit of the continental shelf beyond 200 nautical miles. They may also leave China aside and establish bilateral consultation and negotiation mechanisms to address disputes on territorial sovereignty and maritime delimitation. Therefore, in the current situation, it is particularly urgent and important for China and other disputants to bolster mutual trust and set up institutional arrangements on dispute settlement. 

*First, the commitment to finish the consultation on the COC outline in the first half of 2017 is a means for China to soothe the nerves of ASEAN states.* As a confidence building and crisis management mechanism, the COC is important for China and the ASEAN parties concerned to bolster political trust, manage maritime conflicts, avoid potential crises and escalation of conflicts, as well as stabilize the situation in the South China Sea. On one hand, the COC will place restrictions on bilateral acts in the South China Sea and reduce the causes of tensions. On the other, the COC will help the parties concerned deepen practical maritime cooperation and accumulate trust for the final dispute settlement. 

A bilateral consultation mechanism can promote regular communication among disputants and is effective for them to bolster mutual trust, narrow differences, and promote cooperation. 

*It still needs to be emphasized that formulating the COC is not only part of the effort to implement the “Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea” (DOC) in a comprehensive and effective manner, but is also the final objective of implementing the DOC.* As Article 10 of the DOC stipulates, “the Parties concerned reaffirm that the adoption of a code of conduct in the South China Sea would further promote peace and stability in the region and agree to work, on the basis of consensus, towards the eventual attainment of this objective.”

However, it will not be easy to finish the consultation on the COC framework in the next five or six months because we cannot preclude the possibility that the process may be mired by various political factors and other contingencies, particularly when the Asia-Pacific and South China Sea policies of the Trump administration have not been fully shaped. 

In the author’s view, the framework of the COC should be concise, clear, and open in order to facilitate consensus and leave room for further revision. *In addition, the early harvest results, such as the list of important and complex issues, should be incorporated in the outline text.* Experts and Eminent Persons Groups should begin work as early as possible to take advantage of the resources and wisdom of the Track II platform to enrich the outline text and make the COC more pragmatic. 

*Second, establishing a bilateral consultation mechanism between China and the other disputants is an effective guarantee to strengthen communication, reassure the other disputants, and deepen cooperation.* The consensus that a bilateral consultation mechanism can be useful for both sides to meet regularly on the South China Sea issues, which was put forward in the joint statement issued by China and the Philippines during the state visit of Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte to China, was confirmed once again during Chinese Vice Foreign Minister Liu Zhenmin’s recent visit to the Philippines. 

The bilateral consultation mechanism can promote regular communication among disputants and will be effective for them to bolster mutual trust, narrow differences, and promote cooperation. China and Vietnam may build on the success of the maritime delimitation in the Gulf of Tonkin to build a bilateral consultation mechanism for dispute settlement. 

*Finally, China could take the opportunity of the Philippines’ assumption of the rotating presidency of the ASEAN to implement the DOC in a comprehensive and pragmatic manner.* In the year 2017, which marks the 50th anniversary of the establishment of ASEAN, the Philippines’ work will be guided by the following six priorities: place the people at the core; work for regional peace and stability; pursue maritime security and cooperation; advance inclusive, innovation-led growth; strengthen ASEAN resiliency; and promote ASEAN as a model of regionalism and as a global player. 



On this basis, the effective functioning of the specialized technical committees on marine research and environmental protection, safety of navigation, and search and rescue, as well as combating transnational crimes at sea, will play a significant role in implementing relevant maritime cooperation projects, maintaining the stability of the South China Sea, and lifting China-ASEAN relations to a new level. 

http://www.ippreview.com/index.php/Home/Blog/single/id/339.html


----------



## cochine

Last update 18:49 | 18/01/2017
 


*Foreign affairs contribute to protecting national sovereignty over East Sea
*
_Foreign affairs have made positive contributions to protecting Vietnam's sovereignty over sea and islands in the East Sea and maintaining peace, stability and relations with other countries, delegates at a meeting held by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Hanoi heard on January 17._


_



_


The meeting reviewed the foreign affairs of Vietnam in 2016 and outlined plans for 2017 in the presence of Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Pham Binh Minh.

Despite unpredictable developments in the world in 2016, the diplomacy sector of Vietnam carried out foreign affairs flexibly; promptly responding to complicated situations in the world.

Vietnam has deepened its bilateral and multilateral relations and consolidated political trust with many countries while balancing relations with neighbouring countries as well as powerful countries, helping to create a peaceful and stable environment for national development.

Last year Vietnam successfully held the 7th Ayeyawady–Chao Phraya–Mekong Economic Co-operation Strategy Summit (ACMECS 7), the 8th Cambodia–Laos–Myanmar–Vietnam Summit (CLMV 8) and the World Economic Forum on the Mekong (WEF-Mekong).

Speaking at the meeting, Foreign Minister Pham Binh Minh asked the diplomacy sector to focus on several tasks including the research and forecast of world developments and maintaining relations with partners, particularly key partners.

The diplomacy sector was also requested to continue keeping a peaceful and stable environment for national development and international integration.

_VNA_


----------



## TaiShang

*Half of All US Navy Aircraft Can't Even Fly. Have Fun Fighting China, Guys!* 

No wonder Washington is whining about the Chinese in the South China Sea. That's literally all they can do — *whine.*

Matthew Allen
Sun, Feb 12, 2017 




Expensive scrap metal?

*Isn't there some sort of Freudian theory about* *how violent maniacs are often just sad loners who are trying to overcompensate for their own insufficiencies?*

Well, here's Exhibit A:

*Sixty-two percent of the US Navy’s F/A-18s are out of service, of which 27 percent are in major depot work and 35 percent are simply awaiting maintenance or parts*, Defense News said, adding that *53 percent of all Navy aircraft – some 1,700 combat aircraft, patrol, transport planes, and helicopters – can’t fly.*

Moreover, there “isn’t enough money to fix the fleet’s ships, and the backlog of ships needing work continues to grow,” the article says. *Some subs have allegedly been out of service literally for years, “as much as four years or more*,” Defense News reports.

Holy mother of God.

Here's a bit of free advice: If you're going to maintain hundreds of military bases all over the world and threaten and bomb and invade countries _at least keep your airplanes in "able to fly" condition_.

What the hell happened, Washington? *"Speak softly, and carry a big stick" has turned into "be an asshole, and have carriers full of broken planes."*

No wonder the U.S. only bombs countries like Iraq and Libya. Anyone with a semi-functional military would turn the yanks into hamburger meat.

Good luck with that whole "South China Sea" thing. (Do your shiny-looking ships even float? Yes, but just barely.)

@Chinese-Dragon , @long_

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cochine

Last update 19:19 | 09/02/2017
 


*Chinese bank branch on Vietnam’s Phu Lam island is illegal: Spokesman*
_A Chinese bank branch established in the so-called Sansa city on Phu Lam island in Vietnam’s Hoang Sa archipelago is illegal, stated Foreign Ministry Spokesperson Le Hai Binh._


_



_

_Foreign Ministry Spokesperson Le Hai Binh_


He chaired the ministry’s regular press conference in Hanoi on February 9 and responded to some queries, including the one on Vietnam’s reaction to a Chinese bank setting up a branch in the so-called Sansa city.

“We have repeatedly affirmed that Vietnam has indisputable sovereignty over Hoang Sa (Paracel) and Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelagoes. Therefore, every activity carried out by foreign countries in this area, if there is, without Vietnam’s permission is illegal and does not change the fact that Vietnam has full sovereignty over the area,” Binh said.

_VNA_


----------



## 艹艹艹

*Chinese bank setting up a branch in the Sansha city *

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## JustHappened

China upset at disputed islands mention in Japan-U.S. meeting

China's Foreign Ministry expressed concern on Monday after Japan got continued U.S. backing for its dispute with Beijing over islands in the East China Sea during a meeting between U.S. President Donald Trump and Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe.

A joint Japanese-U.S. statement after the weekend meeting in the United States said the two leaders affirmed that Article 5 of the U.S.-Japan security treaty covered the islands, known as the Senkaku in Japan and the Diaoyu in China.

Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Geng Shuang said China was "seriously concerned and resolutely opposed", adding that the islands had been China's inherent territory since ancient times.

"No matter what anyone says or does, it cannot change the fact that the Diaoyu Islands belong to China, and cannot shake China's resolve and determination to protect national sovereignty and territory," Geng told a daily news briefing in Beijing.

The United States and Japan should watch what they say and do and stop making the wrong comments to avoid complicating the issue and affecting regional peace and stability, he added.



(Reporting by Ben Blanchard; Editing by Jacqueline Wong)

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## 艹艹艹

JustHappened said:


> China upset at disputed islands mention in Japan-U.S. meeting
> 
> 
> China's Foreign Ministry expressed concern on Monday after Japan got continued U.S. backing for its dispute with Beijing over islands in the East China Sea during a meeting between U.S. President Donald Trump and Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe.
> 
> A joint Japanese-U.S. statement after the weekend meeting in the United States said the two leaders affirmed that Article 5 of the U.S.-Japan security treaty covered the islands, known as the Senkaku in Japan and the Diaoyu in China.
> 
> Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Geng Shuang said China was "seriously concerned and resolutely opposed", adding that the islands had been China's inherent territory since ancient times.
> 
> "No matter what anyone says or does, it cannot change the fact that the Diaoyu Islands belong to China, and cannot shake China's resolve and determination to protect national sovereignty and territory," Geng told a daily news briefing in Beijing.
> 
> The United States and Japan should watch what they say and do and stop making the wrong comments to avoid complicating the issue and affecting regional peace and stability, he added.
> 
> 
> 
> (Reporting by Ben Blanchard; Editing by Jacqueline Wong)


*Diaoyu island is in the East China Sea, not in the South China Sea.


*

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cochine

*US NAVY WANTS STRONGER PRESENCE IN SOUTH CHINA SEA*
Posted on February 14, 2017






Share on FacebookTweet on Twitter


United States Navy officials and the U.S. Pacific Command on Monday expressed desire to propose a stronger presence in South China Sea like sailing near Beijing’s artificial islands in the disputed Spratlys Islands.

The Navy Times has mentioned several US naval officials seeking to possibly sail also to the Paracel Islands, where China has been building a military presence.

U.S. Navy may be planning a freedom of navigation operations, or FONOPS, near disputed islands in the South China Sea. FONOPS is viewed by many in the Navy’s leadership as a standard mission, the report added.

Previous administration in the U.S. government under Barack Obama did not allow the Navy to engage in FONOPS, part of his policy of caution and avoidance of extra confrontation with Beijing. But that policy could change under U.S. President Donald Trump.

Advocates of the operation think FONOPS could remove ambiguity from U.S. policy in the South China Sea.

In recent years, while the Navy suspended the operations, China began to aggressively build in the Spratly Islands, installing military-grade runways and deploying surface-to-air weaponry, according to satellite images.



long_ said:


> *Diaoyu island is in the East China Sea, not in the South China Sea.
> 
> *







JustHappened said:


> China's Foreign Ministry expressed concern on Monday after Japan got continued U.S. backing for its dispute with Beijing over islands in the East China Sea during a meeting between U.S. President Donald Trump and Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## JustHappened

kecho said:


>



Yes. Indeed. Pacific is huge. You are right. There is problem and trouble everywhere in south /east with the Yanks

USS Coronado littoral combat ship starts maintenance in Singapore

Following a four-day underway in the South China Sea , littoral combat ship USS Coronado (LCS 4) pulled into Sembawang Wharves in Singapore for a scheduled maintenance period starting Feb. 3.

That was reported by press service of United States Pacific Command (USPACOM).

At sea the crew conducted training exercises designed to maintain operational proficiency while executing emergency procedures at sea. The crew flexed the ship’s capabilities with unit-level training, casualty drills, flight operations and engineering equipment operational testing.

_“It’s been _an extremely productive few days_ at sea and the sense of enthusiasm on the deck plates was evident throughout,” said Cmdr. Scott Larson, commanding officer, USS Coronado. “The team completed essential training that will pay significant dividends during future operational tasking.”_
Specific events included small boat operations, live-fire gunnery exercises, damage control drills, and over 20 combined hours of manned and unmanned flight operations.

USS Coronado (LCS-4) is an Independence-class littoral combat ship. She is the third ship of the United States Navy to be named after Coronado, California. The contract was awarded to General Dynamics-Bath Iron Works in May 2009 for the construction of LCS-4.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## 艹艹艹

JustHappened said:


> Yes. Indeed. Pacific is huge. You are right. There is problem and trouble everywhere in south /east with the Yanks
> 
> USS Coronado littoral combat ship starts maintenance in Singapore
> 
> Following a four-day underway in the South China Sea , littoral combat ship USS Coronado (LCS 4) pulled into Sembawang Wharves in Singapore for a scheduled maintenance period starting Feb. 3.
> 
> That was reported by press service of United States Pacific Command (USPACOM).
> 
> At sea the crew conducted training exercises designed to maintain operational proficiency while executing emergency procedures at sea. The crew flexed the ship’s capabilities with unit-level training, casualty drills, flight operations and engineering equipment operational testing.
> 
> _“It’s been _an extremely productive few days_ at sea and the sense of enthusiasm on the deck plates was evident throughout,” said Cmdr. Scott Larson, commanding officer, USS Coronado. “The team completed essential training that will pay significant dividends during future operational tasking.”_
> Specific events included small boat operations, live-fire gunnery exercises, damage control drills, and over 20 combined hours of manned and unmanned flight operations.
> 
> USS Coronado (LCS-4) is an Independence-class littoral combat ship. She is the third ship of the United States Navy to be named after Coronado, California. The contract was awarded to General Dynamics-Bath Iron Works in May 2009 for the construction of LCS-4.


*The United States launched a war in the South China sea region,
Have you ever heard of the “Vietnam War”?
It was a very cruel war！

*

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## cochine

long_ said:


> *The United States launched a war in the South China sea region,
> Have you ever heard of the “Vietnam War”?
> It was a very cruel war！
> *



In this case, its called "Sino-American war",


----------



## cochine

long_ said:


>



*US nuclear-powered fast attack submarine now in Philippines*

February 14, 2017 PNA Nation 0

ShareTweet


The Los Angeles-class nuclear-powered fast attack submarine USS Louisville (SSN 724) on Tuesday arrived in Subic Bay for a brief port call that highlights the strong community and military connections between the Philippines and the United States, the US Embassy in Manila said.

The Louisville crew will participate in a series of community service projects and sporting events during the crew’s visit to the Philippines.

The ship will also use the stop to conduct some minor maintenance with the assistance of Filipino companies.

The Philippines is a longstanding treaty ally of the United States with a history of partnership of more than 70 years.

The American and Philippine militaries have worked closely together on areas of mutual interest such as humanitarian assistance and disaster relief, counter terrorism, cybersecurity and maritime security.

Louisville is forward-deployed to the U.S. 7th Fleet area of operations in support of security and stability in the Indo-Asia-Pacific region.


----------



## 艹艹艹

kecho said:


> *US nuclear-powered fast attack submarine now in Philippines*
> 
> February 14, 2017 PNA Nation 0
> 
> ShareTweet
> 
> 
> The Los Angeles-class nuclear-powered fast attack submarine USS Louisville (SSN 724) on Tuesday arrived in Subic Bay for a brief port call that highlights the strong community and military connections between the Philippines and the United States, the US Embassy in Manila said.
> 
> The Louisville crew will participate in a series of community service projects and sporting events during the crew’s visit to the Philippines.
> 
> The ship will also use the stop to conduct some minor maintenance with the assistance of Filipino companies.
> 
> The Philippines is a longstanding treaty ally of the United States with a history of partnership of more than 70 years.
> 
> The American and Philippine militaries have worked closely together on areas of mutual interest such as humanitarian assistance and disaster relief, counter terrorism, cybersecurity and maritime security.
> 
> Louisville is forward-deployed to the U.S. 7th Fleet area of operations in support of security and stability in the Indo-Asia-Pacific region.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## TaiShang

long_ said:


> *Chinese bank setting up a branch in the Sansha city *



Vietnamese fisherman are welcome to open foreign accounts using RMB.



long_ said:


> *The United States launched a war in the South China sea region,
> Have you ever heard of the “Vietnam War”?
> It was a very cruel war！
> *



That's a Turk member who has opened perhaps 100 accounts after each new one got banned upon heavy insult (mostly in Turkish) and unfounded claims. I guess originally he was called hurshit. The guy has some crazy idea about German secret service doing nasty things.

Better leave ignored.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cochine

Last update 23:53 | 31/01/2017


*Former Australian defence official urges East Sea navigation freedom*
_Former Chief of the Australian Defence Force (ADF) Angus Houston has underscored the importance of ensuring maritime freedom and safety of navigation in the East Sea. _


_



_

_China's illegal construction in the East Sea _


During the Australia-US-Japan security cooperation conference in Canberra on January 31, Houston, who led the ADF from 2005-2011, also called for solutions to territorial disputes in line with international law and preventing unilateral actions that threaten regional peace and stability. 

Commenting on militarised islands, the former official warned of the likelihood of China’s permanent presence in the East Sea and expansion of its military presence to the south near Indonesia, Malaysia and Singapore. 

He urged the US to maintain strong presence in the Indian Ocean and Pacific. 

Meanwhile, former Japanese Defence Minister Satoshi Morimoto also expressed concern over policies towards Asia-Pacific under the new US administration led by President Donald Trump.

_VNA_

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## GS Zhou

The PLA Navy fleet of Destroyers Changsha, Haikou, and Replenishment Ships Luoma Lake today finished their week-long military drills in South China Sea. 

The fleet is now on the way sailing to East India Ocean.


海军南海舰队远海训练编队完成南海预定课目训练

来源：新华社作者：曾涛　曾行贱责任编辑：李爱明2017-02-17 15:52
2月17日，由导弹驱逐舰长沙舰、海口舰和综合补给舰骆马湖舰组成的海军南海舰队远海训练编队，组织直升机组进行联合防空、巡逻警戒等多课目实战化训练，并圆满完成带有战术背景条件下的立体综合补给，标志着编队已结束在南海相关海域的预定课目训练。

“航行一路、训练一路、总结一路、提高一路。这次在南海相关海域进行的例行训练，极大提高了编队综合作战能力，达到了预期训练目的。”编队指挥员、南海舰队副司令员俞满江介绍，在组训过程中，他们始终紧贴实战，要求各参演兵力群实时获取战场态势、判断情况、定下决心，通过一系列“背靠背”对抗演练，检验了部队主战兵力精确打击、防空反导、舰机协同突击等战法。另一方面，针对编队装备新、体系全的特点，突出战法训法研究，强化问题导向，紧抓战术动作基础，通过理论创新牵引提高训练实际效益，检验编队整体作战能力。

自2月10日起航以来，编队克服南海海域恶劣海况影响，精心操纵舰艇，坚持组织演练，成功组织开展了联合防空、舰机协同、编队突击、航行补给等一系列实战环境条件下的综合演练。

同时，编队坚持发挥政治工作的服务保证作用，通过思想发动、战时政工课题演练、举行向国旗宣誓仪式等工作，做到政治工作与军事训练同频共振，有效锤炼了官兵战斗意志，增强了编队各级指战员指挥协同和应急处置能力，提升了编队远海训练实战化水平。

据悉，远海训练编队下步将进入东印度洋，组织反恐反海盗、武力营救等课目训练。（曾涛　曾行贱）

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cochine

*Carrier Strike Group 1 Conducts South China Sea Patrol*
Story Number: NNS170218-01Release Date: 2/18/2017 8:03:00 AM
By From Carrier Strike Group One Public Affairs

SOUTH CHINA SEA (NNS) -- Carrier Strike Group (CSG) 1, including Nimitz-class aircraft carrier USS Carl Vinson (CVN 70), Destroyer Squadron (DESRON) 1's Arleigh Burke-class guided-missile destroyer USS Wayne E. Meyer (DDG 108), and aircraft from Carrier Air Wing (CVW) 2, began routine operations in the South China Sea, Feb. 18.

Prior to their operations in the South China Sea, ships and aircraft from within the strike group conducted training off the islands of Hawaii and Guam to maintain and improve their readiness and develop cohesion as a strike group. The strike group recently enjoyed a port visit to Guam and after departing the Marianas, conducted operations in the Philippine Sea.

"The training completed over the past few weeks has really brought the team together and improved our effectiveness and readiness as a strike group," said Rear Adm. James Kilby, commander, CSG 1. "We are looking forward to demonstrating those capabilities while building upon existing strong relationships with our allies, partners and friends in the Indo-Asia-Pacific region."

Vinson last deployed to the Western-Pacific in 2015 and conducted a bilateral exercise with the Royal Malaysian Navy and Royal Malaysian Air Force in the South China Sea. Vinson first operated in the South China Sea in 1983 and in total, has operated there during 16 previous deployments over its 35 year history.

While deployed, the Carl Vinson CSG will remain under U.S. 3rd Fleet command and control, including beyond the international dateline, which previously divided operational areas of responsibility for 3rd and 7th Fleets. Third Fleet operating forward offers additional options to the Pacific Fleet commander by leveraging the capabilities of 3rd and 7th Fleets. This operational concept allows both numbered fleets to complement one another and provide the foundation of stability in the Indo-Asia-Pacific region.

CVW-2 includes the "Black Knights" of Helicopter Sea Combat Squadron (HSC) 4, the "Blue Hawks" of Helicopter Maritime Strike Squadron (HSM) 78, the "Bounty Hunters" of Strike Fighter Squadron (VFA) 2, the "Blue Blasters" of VFA-34, the "Kestrels" of VFA-137, the "Golden Dragons" of VFA-192, the "Black Eagles" of Carrier Airborne Early Warning Squadron (VAW) 113, the "Gauntlets" of Electronic Attack Squadron (VAQ) 136 and the "Providers" of Fleet Logistic Support Squadron (VRC) 30.


For more information, visit www.navy.mil, www.facebook.com/usnavy, or www.twitter.com/usnavy.

For more news from Commander, Carrier Strike Group 1, visit www.navy.mil/local/csg1/.


----------



## TaiShang

*5.7-km bridge to connect artificial islet in south China*
(Xinhua) 08:47, February 19, 2017






　　The rendering of the multi-functional bridge [Photo: CCTV]

Construction started Saturday on a multi-functional bridge that will connect China's southernmost province of Hainan to a nearby man-made islet.

The bridge will be 27.5 meters wide and 5,666 meters long, spanning over sea north of the provincial capital Haikou to link to the Ruyi Islet, a tourism project still under construction, according to the 2nd Engineering Company of the China Railway 18th Bureau Group, a major contractor of the bridge.

The bridge will have six main functions: *road, a tramway, and being a corridor for water, electricity, natural gas and optical fiber.*

The sea under the bridge has an average depth of 10 to 15 meters, and the construction could be challenged by strong wind, thick fog and tides, according to the company.

He Changsong, project manager at the company, said *the bridge was designed to resist super typhoons and earthquakes of more than magnitude 8.*

The sail-shaped bridge is scheduled to be completed in the first half of 2019.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cochine

*US carrier group patrols in disputed waterway*
By Reuters/Matthew Tostevin February 19, 2017 | 01:03 pm GMT+7




Sailors man the rails as the USS Carl Vinson aircraft carrier departs on deployment from Naval Station North Island in Coronado, California, U.S. January 5, 2017. Photo by Reuters/Mike Blake
*Friction between the United States and China over trade and territory under U.S. President Donald Trump have increased concerns that the troubled sea could become a flashpoint.*
A United States aircraft carrier strike group has begun patrols the South China Sea, which Vietnam calls East Sea, amid growing tension with China over control of the disputed waterway and concerns it could become a flashpoint under the new U.S. administration.

China's Foreign Ministry on Wednesday warned Washington against challenging its sovereignty in the South China Sea.

The U.S. navy said the force, including Nimitz-class aircraft carrier USS Carl Vinson, began routine operations in the South China Sea on Saturday. The announcement was posted on the Vinson's Facebook page.

The strike group's commander, Rear Admiral James Kilby, said that weeks of training in the Pacific had improved the group's effectiveness and readiness.

"We are looking forward to demonstrating those capabilities while building upon existing strong relationships with our allies, partners and friends in the Indo-Asia-Pacific region," he was quoted as saying by the Navy News Service.

Friction between the United States and China over trade and territory under U.S. President Donald Trump have increased concerns that the South China Sea could become a flashpoint.

China wrapped up its own naval exercises in the South China Sea on Friday. War games involving its own aircraft carrier have unnerved neighbors with which it has long-running territorial disputes.

China lays claim to almost all of the resource-rich South China Sea, through which about $5 trillion worth of trade passes each year.

Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines, Taiwan and Vietnam also claim parts of the waters that command strategic sea lanes and have rich fishing grounds, along with oil and gas deposits.

The United States has criticized Beijing's construction of man-made islands and build-up of military facilities in the sea, and expressed concern they could be used to restrict free movement.


----------



## RISING SUN

As US-China ties run into trouble, India eyes bigger Asean role
As the US-China relationship becomes fraught with tension, Asia is doing what it does best — looking for balancing powers to hedge against both an aggressive China and an uncertain America. Over the coming weeks and months, India plans to ramp up its already strong engagement with Asia with an eye to building alliances, hedging and projecting itself as a "leading power" in the region. 

Vietnam's foreign minister Pham Binh Minh and vice-president will visit India in the coming weeks. 
Malaysia's already embattled PM Najib Razak is also expected to make a trip,
and India expects to host Malcolm Turnbull, the Australian PM, later this year.
The Bangladeshi PM is likely to visit in April, 
while foreign secretary S Jaishankar is currently on a tour of Sri Lanka, China and Bangladesh, both as a neighbourhood visit as well as contextualising these relationships within the larger Asian chessboard.

For the countries of the region, the initial days of the Trump administration has been replete with confusing signals. There is a general sense that the US-China relationship will be frosty at best, and the impact of this would be felt in every regional capital. Trump and his top cabinet picks have indicated a more confrontational stance on China's island-building, definitely more aggressive on trade and tariffs, while walking away from the only Obama "pivot" exercise, the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP). The Trump administration does not believe, as some do, that undoing TPP will open strategic space for China. It believes that TPP would have had a limited impact in "containing" China and that Asian nations were in any case wary of Beijing's intent and would look to hedge their bets.

On the other hand, after showing some desire to change the US-China template, Trump reaffirmed the "one-China" policy, secretary of state Rex Tillerson moderated his comments on South China Sea and North Korea's recent missile test went off with a mild reproof from Washington. For regional powers, it means two things — they know what to expect from China and are concerned, but they do not know much of what to expect from the new US administration, a cause of equal concern. Philippine defence secretary Delfin Lorenzana told an interviewer last week that China might build on Scarborough Shoal, 300km from Manila, if it felt it would be unchecked.

"If we allow them, they will build," he was quoted as saying. "That's very, very disturbing. Very much (more) disturbing than Fiery Cross because this is so close to us." The Philippines is arguably the closest US ally in the Asean region. Vietnam feels particularly let down with the death of TPP, having banked on its as a political signal.
An unchecked China could revive tensions in South China Sea. While Japan and India remain steady allies, Hanoi is keen to get a better sense of how the US wants to play in that region. This would be one of the top topics of conversation between Vietnamese leaders and their Indian counterparts. India, thus far, appears to be on the right side of the new Trump administration and this gives it an interesting insight into Washington, these countries feel. Malaysia had fallen into China's sphere of influence, particularly after Beijing stepped in to rescue the scam-ridden 1MDB company. Malaysian ports are hosting Chinese submarines, like Sri Lanka, and Malaysia has committed to buying submarines from China as well. 
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...es-bigger-asean-role/articleshow/57240128.cms


----------



## TaiShang

*Chinese Navy carries out counter-attack drill in South China Sea*
chinadaily.com.cn/Xinhua | 2017-02-21




Missile destroyers Changsha and Haikou, part of the Chinese Navy's Nanhai Fleet, fire at simulated enemy destroyers during a counter-attack drill in the South China Sea on Feb 19, 2017. [Photo/Xinhua]





A missile destroyer fires at the simulated enemy during a drill in the South China Sea on Feb 19, 2017. [Photo/Xinhua]




A soldier on the missile destroyer Changsha fires flares during a drill in the South China Sea on Feb 19, 2017. [Photo/Xinhua]





Soldiers on a flight deck deploy a floating target to act as the simulated enemy destroyer during a drill in the South China Sea on Feb 19, 2017. [Photo/Xinhua]

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cochine

*Brothers-in-Arms: Vietnam Ramps Up Its Defense Potential With Russian Help*
© Sputnik/ Maksim Bogovid
RUSSIA
15:03 10.01.2017(updated 15:05 10.01.2017) Get short URL
104512372


*Vietnam now ranks seventeenth in the complete Global Firepower (GFP) list and second in Southeast Asia after Indonesia, thanks much to modern arms supplies from Russia.*







© SPUTNIK/ RAMIL SITDIKOV
Russia's T-90 Battle Tank Interests Vietnam Because It's 'More Modern' Than Rivals
The Global Firepower (GFP) list puts the military powers of the world into full perspective depending on their defense outlays, air and naval might, number and quality of Air Force bases and seaports, etc.


Commenting on the information contained in the Global Firepower 2016 report, AEC News Today wrote that with its history of victorious wars fought against France, the US and China, Vietnam possesses a military force to reckon with.

In an interview with Sputnik Vietnam, former Deputy Defense Minister, Col. Gen. Nguyen Van Duoc said that his country owned much of its military potential to the assistance it once received from the Soviet Union and the weapons now being supplied it by the Russian Federation.

“We have the very same feelings of love and respect for Russia that we once had for the Soviet Union. Our military-technical cooperation is expanding all the time with Russia providing us with everything we need: tanks, warplanes, naval ships, submarines and air-defense systems. Much of what they have in the Russian Army we now also have here in Vietnam,” he said.

Meanwhile, a Kilo-class Russian diesel-electric submarine, armed with Kalibr missiles, the last of the six such vessels ordered by Hanoi, is on the way to Vietnam.

These submarines are extremely silent and are very aptly called “black holes” by Western military specialists.

A second pair of Gepard-class frigates is now in the final stages of their trials in the Black Sea and will soon be handed over to the Vietnamese Navy, in addition to as many supplied earlier.

The Soviet Union started supplying North Vietnam with firearms and anti-aircraft systems back in the early 1950s. In 1954 Soviet Katyusha multiple rocket launchers helped the North Vietnamese forces win the Battle of Dien Bien Phu — the final battle of the First Indochina War.

During the 1960s and 1970s, Soviet missiles and warplanes shot down an estimated 1,700 US military aircraft and it was Soviet tanks that rammed the gates of the Doc Lap presidential palace in Saigon on April 1975, the day when the North Vietnamese Army took the capital of South Vietnam.

In recent years Russia and Vietnam have signed a raft of arms-delivery contracts worth over 4.5 billion dollars.

The list of Russian military supplies to Vietnam include Tor, Buk and S-300 air defense systems and the sides are currently negotiating the supply of the state-of-the-art S-400 missile systems.







© SPUTNIK/ ROMAN DENISOV
Russia Rebuilding Military Airfields in Vietnam, Pacific Islands – Former Air Force Chief
Russian Mi-8 helicopters are the backbone of Vietnam’s combat helicopter fleet and Russia has also supplied 10 Su-27 fighters and 32 Su-30MK2 multi-role fighters that offer enhanced combat capabilities against aerial, ground and sea-based targets.


Apart from the already mentioned Gepard-class frigates, Russia has also provided the Vietnamese Navy with high-speed Svetlyak-class frigates and a number of Tarantul-class missile corvettes.

After watching the performance of Molniya-class guided missile boats, the Vietnamese military started building them under license in Vietnam.

Russia has supplied Vietnam with the Bastion mobile coastal missile complex that can effectively protect a 600-kilometer stretch of the coastline and keep an eye on up to 200,000 square kilometers of open water area.

When a group of US naval ships sailing close to the Crimean coast caught sight of Bastion batteries deployed on the peninsula, they quickly turned back and steamed away.

According to military experts, Russian-made arms account for a hefty 90 percent of Vietnam’s arsenal.

https://sputniknews.com/russia/201701101049432881-russia-vietnam-arms/


----------



## terranMarine

*China finishing South China Sea buildings that could house missiles*

China, in an early test of U.S. President Donald Trump, is nearly finished building almost two dozen structures on artificial islands in the South China Sea that appear designed to house long-range surface-to-air missiles, two U.S. officials told Reuters.

The development is likely to raise questions about whether and how the United States will respond, given its vows to take a tough line on China in the South China Sea.

China claims almost all the South China Sea, which carries a third of the world's maritime traffic. Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines, Taiwan and Vietnam also have claims. Trump's administration has called China's island building in the South China Sea illegal.

Building the concrete structures with retractable roofs on Subi, Mischief and Fiery Cross reefs, part of the Spratly Islands chain where China already has built military-length airstrips, could be considered a military escalation, the U.S. officials said in recent days, speaking on condition of anonymity.

"It is not like the Chinese to build anything in the South China Sea just to build it, and these structures resemble others that house SAM batteries, so the logical conclusion is that's what they are for," said a U.S. intelligence official.

Another official said the structures appeared to be 20 meters (66 feet) long and 10 meters (33 feet) high.

A Pentagon spokesman said the United States remained committed to "non-militarization in the South China Sea" and urged all claimants to take actions consistent with international law.

The Chinese Embassy in Washington did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

In his Senate confirmation hearing last month, U.S. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson raised China's ire when he said Beijing should be denied access to the islands it is building in the South China Sea.

Tillerson subsequently softened his language, and Trump further reduced tensions by pledging to honor the long-standing U.S. "One China" policy in a Feb. 10 telephone call with Chinese President Xi Jinping.

LONGER-RANGE

Greg Poling, a South China Sea expert at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington, said in a December report that China apparently had installed weapons, including anti-aircraft and anti-missile systems, on all seven of the islands it has built in the South China Sea.

The officials said the new structures were likely to house surface-to-air missiles that would expand China's air defense umbrella over the islands. They did not give a time line on when they believed China would deploy missiles on the islands.

"It certainly raises the tension," Poling said. "The Chinese have gotten good at these steady increases in their capabilities."

On Tuesday, the Philippines said Southeast Asian countries saw China's installation of weapons in the South China Sea as "very unsettling" and have urged dialogue to stop an escalation of "recent developments."

Philippine Foreign Secretary Perfecto Yasay did not say what provoked the concern but said the 10-member Association of South East Asian Nations, or ASEAN, hoped China and the United States would ensure peace and stability.

POLITICAL TEST

The U.S. intelligence official said the structures did not pose a significant military threat to U.S. forces in the region, given their visibility and vulnerability.

Building them appeared to be more of a political test of how the Trump administration would respond, he said.

"The logical response would also be political – something that should not lead to military escalation in a vital strategic area," the official said.

Chas Freeman, a China expert and former assistant secretary of defense, said he was inclined to view such installations as serving a military purpose - bolstering China's claims against those of other nations - rather than a political signal to the United States.

"There is a tendency here in Washington to imagine that it's all about us, but we are not a claimant in the South China Sea," Freeman said. "We are not going to challenge China's possession of any of these land features in my judgment. If that's going to happen, it's going to be done by the Vietnamese, or . . . the Filipinos . . . or the Malaysians, who are the three counter-claimants of note."

He said it was an "unfortunate, but not (an) unpredictable development."

Tillerson told the Senate Foreign Relations Committee last month that China's building of islands and putting military assets on them was "akin to Russia's taking Crimea" from Ukraine.

In his written responses to follow-up questions, he softened his language, saying that in the event of an unspecified "contingency," the United States and its allies "must be capable of limiting China's access to and use of" those islands to pose a threat.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-usa-southchinasea-exclusive-idUSKBN161029

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## TaiShang

terranMarine said:


> China, in an early test of U.S. President Donald Trump, is nearly finished building almost two dozen structures on artificial islands in the South China Sea that appear designed to house long-range surface-to-air missiles



Pure speculation. Those are greenhouses to grow fruit and vegetables.



terranMarine said:


> The development is likely to raise questions about whether and how the United States will respond, given its vows to take a tough line on China in the South China Sea.



In response, the US Navy will pass nearby China's islands, making some other people to sing "Me love you long time".



terranMarine said:


> Trump's administration has called China's island building in the South China Sea illegal.



Trump even said US economic figures were all fake and Obama administration set up the ISIS. If I want to believe what the Trump administration says, I want to believe them all.



terranMarine said:


> "It certainly raises the tension," Poling said. "The Chinese have gotten good at these steady increases in their capabilities."



As if the US does not do that.



terranMarine said:


> The U.S. intelligence official said the structures did not pose a significant military threat to U.S. forces in the region, given their visibility and vulnerability.



As if aircraft carriers and all those bases with some 300.000 military persons are not visible to China.



terranMarine said:


> "There is a tendency here in Washington to imagine that it's all about us, but we are not a claimant in the South China Sea," Freeman said. "We are not going to challenge China's possession of any of these land features in my judgment. If that's going to happen, it's going to be done by the Vietnamese, or . . . the Filipinos . . . or the Malaysians, who are the three counter-claimants of note."



The Filipinos and Malaysians spoke by getting closer to China and signing economic and defense agreements. Vietnam makes noise, however. But it is ineffective.



terranMarine said:


> Tillerson told the Senate Foreign Relations Committee last month that China's building of islands and putting military assets on them was "akin to Russia's taking Crimea" from Ukraine.



Poor comparison and analysis. Even Opie is smarter than him.






China building of islands putting military assets on them is only akin to US building and weaponizing Hawaii.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## terranMarine

@TaiShang very valid points, no matter what kind of noises Washington is making (including sending some extra warships, battlegroup for patrolling in the international water in SCS) at the end of the day China is doing land reclamation and building infrastructure. Not even US can stop it as we have said it countless of times in the past 2-3 years. Certain primitive primates from down under China can keep posting US sending ships to patrol, so what? Vietnam cannot do anything about it, couldn't steal Taiping island, couldn't do sh!t. Malaysia never made much noise and we know how the relations has improved between CN & PH because a smarter leader has been elected. Vietnam can keep on dreaming of a war in which Japan & US would send their men to die on their behalf so that Viets can later on grab all those islands (eh i don't think so )

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cochine

*CHINA INFURIATED OVER PH FRESH REMARKS ON SOUTH CHINA SEA*
Posted on February 23, 2017





Share on FacebookTweet on Twitter


China’s foreign ministry spokesperson Geng Shuan on Wednesday said Philippines’s remarks about concerns for ASEAN regarding Chinese stance on South China Sea do not represent the bloc.

Geng said China looks to work with the ASEAN to complete the draft of a framework of the Code of Conduct in the South China Sea (COC) before midyear.

China dismissed Philippine Foreign Secretary Perfecto Yasay’s remarks about concerns raised by ASEAN over China in the South China Sea, saying “such comments were only his opinion and does not represent the view of ASEAN as a whole.”

He urged Yasay to follow President Rodrigo Duterte’s policies to improve China-Philippine relations and work with China to resolve the South China Sea disputes through friendly talks.

On Tuesday, ASEAN foreign ministers called for the “full and effective implementation” of the 2012 Declaration on the Conduct (DOC) of Parties in the South China Sea.

Yasay said Southeast Asian countries see China’s installation of weapons systems in the South China Sea as very unsettling and want to prevent militarization, according to media reports.

http://tankler.com/china-infuriated-over-ph-fresh-remarks-on-south-china-sea-12869


----------



## TaiShang

*South China Sea Dispute: Why US Carriers Unable to Put Pressure on China*

16:36 22.02.2017(updated 16:38 22.02.2017) ， Sputnik News

*As the temperature is rising in the South China Sea over the recent freedom of navigation operation (FONOP) launched by the US and further reports that China "has nearly finished" buildings "that could house missiles", a RIA Novosti correspondent explains why the US is unable to put any pressure on Beijing.*






© AP Photo/ Fan Yishu/Xinhua

On Saturday, the US navy strike group led by the Nimitz-class aircraft carrier the USS Carl Vinson and consisting of Destroyer Squadron (DESRON), Arleigh Burke-class guided-missile destroyer USS Wayne E. Meyer (DDG 108), and aircraft from Carrier Air Wing (CVW) began what the US Navy called "routine operations" in the South China Sea.

China has denounced the patrol for threatening its sovereignty and security in the South China Sea.

*"China always respects the freedom of navigation and overflight all countries enjoy under international law. But we are consistently opposed to relevant countries threatening and damaging the sovereignty and security of littoral countries under the flag of freedom of navigation and overflight,"* Chinese foreign ministry spokesman Geng Shuang told journalists commenting on the matter.

On Wednesday, Reuters, citing two unnamed US officials, reported that "China has nearly finished building almost two dozen structures on artificial islands in the South China Sea that appear designed to house long-range surface-to-air missiles."

"It is not like the Chinese to build anything in the South China Sea just to build it, and these structures resemble others that house SAM [surface-to-air missiles] batteries, so the logical conclusion is that's what they are for," the agency quotes a US intelligence official as saying.

Another official said the structures appeared to be 20 meters (66 feet) long and 10 meters (33 feet) high.







In Beijing, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Geng Shuang said on Wednesday he was aware of the report, though did not say if China was planning on placing missiles on the reefs.

*"China carrying out normal construction activities on its own territory, including deploying necessary and appropriate territorial defense facilities, is a normal right under international law for sovereign nations," he told reporters.*

Commenting on the recent developments in the area, RIA Novosti political analyst Alexander Khrolenko provided his own take on the risk of a direct military standoff between China and the US, explaining that even though tensions are high, the risk of escalation is actually quite low. 
"Washington has not changed its position on the disputed territories and defined water zones in the South China Sea with the election of Donald Trump. Many political analysts see the conflict between the US and China over the issue potentially more dangerous that the disputes between Russia and NATO in Europe," he writes in his article for RIA Novosti.

"However unchanged political rhetoric and the unpredictability of the latest events only demonstrate that any naval clashes off China's coast are very unlikely," the political analyst said, reminding the recent claims of US new defense secretary that there is no need for large-scale US actions in the South China Sea.

He further provided his reasons why the US' policy of "containment of China" is so contradictory.

Up to one third of the world's naval freight traffic volume goes through the South China Sea, as well as 75 per cent of the Middle Eastern crude oil shipments to the Asia Pacific Region, over 40 percent of which are going to China. Over $5 trillion of world trade transit annually (including $1.2 trillion in US trade transits annually) goes through this part of the World Ocean.






© AP Photo/ US Navy

Over a hundred islands and reefs make it easy to efficiently control the shelf which holds deposits of over 5.4 billion barrels of oil and over 55.1 trillion cubic meters of gas (according to the data of the US Department of Energy).

"The growth of China's economic and political influence has the US worried, but they have practically no means to hinder this process. It is not by chance that one of the most influential Chinese papers, People.cn has urged Beijing not to allow the US to disrupt the status quo in the South China Sea," the political analyst said.

He finally stated that it has become evident that the development of China's economy and its armed forces will allow China to further peacefully develop resources of the three adjacent seas and other areas of the World Ocean regardless of the US Washington's will and Pentagon's "signals."

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cochine

*US NAVAL WARFARE GROUP NOW IN SOUTH CHINA SEA*
Posted on February 19, 2017





Share on FacebookTweet on Twitter


The Carrier Strike Group (CSG) 1 of the United States began routine operations in the South China Sea on February 18.

The warfare group includes Nimitz-class aircraft carrier USS Carl Vinson (CVN 70), Destroyer Squadron (DESRON) 1’s Arleigh Burke-class guided-missile destroyer USS Wayne E. Meyer (DDG 108), and aircraft from Carrier Air Wing (CVW) 2.

Prior to their operations in the South China Sea, ships and aircraft from within the strike group conducted training off the islands of Hawaii and Guam to maintain and improve their readiness and develop cohesion as a strike group.

The strike group recently enjoyed a port visit to Guam and after departing the Marianas, conducted operations in the Philippine Sea.

“The training completed over the past few weeks has really brought the team together and improved our effectiveness and readiness as a strike group” said Rear Adm. James Kilby, commander, CSG 1.

“We are looking forward to demonstrating those capabilities while building upon existing strong relationships with our allies, partners and friends in the Indo-Asia-Pacific region,” Kilby added.

Vinson first operated in the South China Sea in 1983 and in total, has operated there during 16 previous deployments over its 35 year history.

Earlier this month, the U.S. Navy and Pacific Command leaders has planned to ratchet up potentially provocative operations in the South China Sea by sailing more warships near the increasingly militarized man-made islands that China claims as sovereign territory.

http://tankler.com/ebtsertbe-12676


----------



## TaiShang

The Philippines are cool with China's SCS development efforts:

***

*Govt aware of China buildup, says Philippine security adviser*

By Leila B. Salaverria
25 February 2017

Philippine Daily Inquirer (Philippines)


MANILA (Philippine Daily Inquirer/ANN) - The Philippines’ National Security Adviser says the structures being built by China in the disputed waters could be turned into hangars, *but hopefully not as military facilities.* 

The Philippine government continues to be aware of China’s continued building of structures in the South China Sea, which National Security Adviser Hermogenes Esperon said could be turned into military facilities.

Esperon said some of the structures could be hangars.

“If they would turn them into military facilities, that would be alarming,” Esperon told reporters at Camp Aguinaldo.

*While this is possible, he continues to hope this would not be the case, he said.*

Asked what the Philippines would do if China converts the structures into military facilities, he said* it would not just be the country that could be expected to take action.*

*“What would we fight China with?”* he added.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cochine

*WATCH: HOME SWEET HOME FOR 5TH, 6TH FA-50PH*
Posted on February 22, 2017





Share on FacebookTweet on Twitter


The brand new FA-50 fighter jets of the Philippine Air Force (PAF) arrives in Clark at around 11 a.m. on Wednesday.


Col. Antonio Francisco, PAF spokesman said the two FA-50s, with tail numbers 005 and 006, was delivered by the Korean Aerospace Industries Ltd (KAI) at the Air Force City in Clark Air Base, Pampanga.

This will bring to six the number of fighter jets now in the Air Force inventory and the aircraft are expected to boost its capability.

KAI is expected to complete the delivery of the remaining six fighter jets within the year, according to the PAF spokesman.

The first and second batches of supersonic jets arrived in the Philippines on November 28, 2015 and on December 1, 2016.

The Department of National Defense (DND) sealed the jet acquisition contract with KAI for P18.9 billion.

http://tankler.com/sergh5yhge5-12837


----------



## TaiShang

*Cruise ship starts maiden Xisha trip*
By Xinhua | China Daily | Updated: 2017-03-03

*



*​_The Changle Gongzhu, or Changle Princess, cruise ship is berthed at a port in Sanya, Hainan province, on Thursday. Guo Cheng/xinhua_

SANYA, Hainan - A new cruise ship began its maiden voyage to the Xisha Islands in the South China Sea on Thursday afternoon. The Changle Gongzhu, or Changle Princess, sailed from Sanya with 308 passengers on board.

The new ship is capable of carrying 499 people. *It has 82 guest rooms and offers dining, entertainment, shopping, medical treatment and postal services.*

The first voyage will last four days and three nights, said an official with Hainan Strait Shipping, the owner of the vessel.

It will arrive in the Xisha Islands on Friday morning. Passengers can visit the islands of Yinyu, Quanfu and Yagong.

Hainan Strait Shipping began cruises to the Xisha Islands in 2013.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## cochine

*Aggressive China “makes rod for its own back”*
_VietNamNet would like to introduce an article by expert Pham Ngoc Minh Trang analyzing the absurdity of the views of China and pro-Sino scholars against the Permanent Court of Arbitration’s ruling (PCA)._

_



_

_A photo taken of works built by China on Gaven Reef on February 19, 2015 by the Philippine army._


Argument: The Philippines violated commitments on dispute settlement by negotiation that were stipulated in the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the East Sea (DOC) and other agreements.

China said that the Philippines and China, through the DOC and the other bilateral agreements between the two countries, had committed to resolve disputes in the East Sea (internationally known as the South China Sea) through negotiations only. Therefore, the Philippines’ case against China at the PCA was against the commitments made by the Philippines, and China did not recognize the whole proceedings, as well as jurisdiction and any verdict of the PCA.

In the ruling on the jurisdiction, the PCA affirmed that the DOC as well as bilateral agreements between the Philippines and China are not legally binding documents. [1] Thus, the Philippines’ use of the dispute settlement mechanism of the UN Convention on the Law of the Seas (UNCLOS) to settle disputes with China in the East Sea through the PCA did not violate the provisions of the UNCLOS, as well as the obligations of the Philippines under international law. The PCA is absolutely competent in resolving this dispute.

The photo taken on February 19, 2015 by the Philippine military shows the construction scale of China on the Gaven Reef in Truong Sa (Spratlys Islands), Vietnam. Photo: EPA

In addition, Article 288 of the UNCLOS stipulates that if there is any dispute between the parties on the jurisdiction of the PCA, the PCA shall have full power to consider whether the PCA has jurisdiction or not. On October 29th 2015, the Court confirmed that it has jurisdiction to resolve a number of requests in the petition of the Philippines. On July 12th 2016, the PCA continued to assert its jurisdiction over the remaining requirements, as well as to draw conclusions about the content of each issue.

The PCA also emphasized that its ruling is final and legally binding on the parties involved in the case - the Philippines and China. Therefore, the Chinese statement of objections and their not adhering to the PCA’s ruling do not affect the legal validity of the decision. This act is contrary, if not a flagrant violation of international law and commitments that China has made as a member of UNCLOS.

*Other arguments*


*



*



In addition, there are also other arguments of pro-China scholars focusing on the legitimacy of the PCA. For example, the argument attacking the former director of the International Tribunal on the Law of the Sea (ITLOS), judge Shunji Yanai. They said that Mr. Yanai is a Japanese and the one who chose the arbitrators for the case between the Philippines and China, so it would be certainly unfair and impartial.

Also there are the arguments that as the PCA had only five arbitrators, their ruling is not persuasive as the rulings given by other International Courts as the ITLOS (21 judges) or the International Court of Justice (ICJ) (15 judges). But those who made this argument have forgotten that China’s refusal to appear at the Court led to the two legal consequences.

China would have been able to accept the claim of the Philippines and select the ITLOS or the ICJ to resolve the dispute. But China chose to be absent from the Court. Therefore, pursuant to Article 287 of the UNCLOS, a party in the dispute can unilaterally lodge its claim to the International Court. The court that accepts the case would be the Court of Arbitration under the Annex VII.

China would have been able to solve the dispute with the Philippines at the Court of Arbitration under Appendix VII and China would have had the right to select the arbitrators as its wish. But China chose to boycott the case. Thus, as defined in Article 3 of Annex VII of UNCLOS, the director of the ITLOS has to choose arbitrators because of the absence.

And up to now, China has made statements and actions representing views of not complying with a ruling made by the PCA on July 12, 2015. This behavior of China is justified that under Article 38, the regulation on the PCA is not in main sources of international law, so if China does not obey the ruling of the PCA, it does not mean that it is breaking international law. Legally, this argument is completely wrong.

As noted above, Article 296 of UNCLOS provides that the judgment of the International Court or the Court of Arbitration established under the UNCLOS (Annex VII) shall be final and binding to the parties mentioned in the ruling. China, though it did not appear at the Court, is still a party in the ruling, therefore it is obliged to implement this ruling. Otherwise, China will violate Article 296 of UNCLOS - this is a source of international law; thus, China does not comply with international law.

Finally, there is an argument that if China withdraws from the UNCLOS, China can avoid the implementation of the PCA’s ruling. This argument is hardly persuasive under the following two points. Firstly, under Article 317 of UNCLOS, member states have the right to denounce UNCLOS, but the denunciation does not include an obligation to implement the ruling in at least one year after it makesa declaration of withdrawal.

Secondly, as a member of UNCLOS, China benefits greatly from the provisions of UNCLOS, especially the institutions of the exclusive economic zone (EEZ) and the continental shelf. Thus, it is likely that China will not refuse these benefits only to evade the implementation of the ruling made on July 12, 2016

*Conclusion*


*



*


The arguments against the establishment of, competence, and the ruling and the legitimacy of the Court of Arbitration Annex VII solving the lawsuit between the Philippines and China from China and pro-China scholars may be dismissed logically and legally under international law. The PCA was very careful to split the proceedings into two different sessions. One session was held only to consider jurisdiction and the other to settle the dispute.

The final ruling of more than 500 pages thoroughly resolves each claim of the Philippines, showing the details of the court, and the coherence in each arguments of the judges. Therefore, China’s arguments against the court and its ruling show an attitude of disregarding justice and the superficial study of international law of the sea in particular and international law in general.

_*Pham Ngoc Minh Trang *_

_Faculty of International Relations, HCM City University of Social Sciences and Humanities_

-----


----------



## samsara

kecho said:


> *Aggressive China “makes rod for its own back”*
> _VietNamNet would like to introduce an article by expert Pham Ngoc Minh Trang analyzing the absurdity of the views of China and pro-Sino scholars against the Permanent Court of Arbitration’s ruling (PCA)._
> 
> _
> 
> 
> 
> _
> 
> _A photo taken of works built by China on Gaven Reef on February 19, 2015 by the Philippine army._
> 
> 
> Argument: The Philippines violated commitments on dispute settlement by negotiation that were stipulated in the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the East Sea (DOC) and other agreements.
> 
> China said that the Philippines and China, through the DOC and the other bilateral agreements between the two countries, had committed to resolve disputes in the East Sea (internationally known as the South China Sea) through negotiations only. Therefore, the Philippines’ case against China at the PCA was against the commitments made by the Philippines, and China did not recognize the whole proceedings, as well as jurisdiction and any verdict of the PCA.
> 
> In the ruling on the jurisdiction, the PCA affirmed that the DOC as well as bilateral agreements between the Philippines and China are not legally binding documents. [1] Thus, the Philippines’ use of the dispute settlement mechanism of the UN Convention on the Law of the Seas (UNCLOS) to settle disputes with China in the East Sea through the PCA did not violate the provisions of the UNCLOS, as well as the obligations of the Philippines under international law. The PCA is absolutely competent in resolving this dispute.
> 
> The photo taken on February 19, 2015 by the Philippine military shows the construction scale of China on the Gaven Reef in Truong Sa (Spratlys Islands), Vietnam. Photo: EPA
> 
> In addition, Article 288 of the UNCLOS stipulates that if there is any dispute between the parties on the jurisdiction of the PCA, the PCA shall have full power to consider whether the PCA has jurisdiction or not. On October 29th 2015, the Court confirmed that it has jurisdiction to resolve a number of requests in the petition of the Philippines. On July 12th 2016, the PCA continued to assert its jurisdiction over the remaining requirements, as well as to draw conclusions about the content of each issue.
> 
> The PCA also emphasized that its ruling is final and legally binding on the parties involved in the case - the Philippines and China. Therefore, the Chinese statement of objections and their not adhering to the PCA’s ruling do not affect the legal validity of the decision. This act is contrary, if not a flagrant violation of international law and commitments that China has made as a member of UNCLOS.
> 
> *Other arguments*
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> In addition, there are also other arguments of pro-China scholars focusing on the legitimacy of the PCA. For example, the argument attacking the former director of the International Tribunal on the Law of the Sea (ITLOS), judge Shunji Yanai. They said that Mr. Yanai is a Japanese and the one who chose the arbitrators for the case between the Philippines and China, so it would be certainly unfair and impartial.
> 
> Also there are the arguments that as the PCA had only five arbitrators, their ruling is not persuasive as the rulings given by other International Courts as the ITLOS (21 judges) or the International Court of Justice (ICJ) (15 judges). But those who made this argument have forgotten that China’s refusal to appear at the Court led to the two legal consequences.
> 
> China would have been able to accept the claim of the Philippines and select the ITLOS or the ICJ to resolve the dispute. But China chose to be absent from the Court. Therefore, pursuant to Article 287 of the UNCLOS, a party in the dispute can unilaterally lodge its claim to the International Court. The court that accepts the case would be the Court of Arbitration under the Annex VII.
> 
> China would have been able to solve the dispute with the Philippines at the Court of Arbitration under Appendix VII and China would have had the right to select the arbitrators as its wish. But China chose to boycott the case. Thus, as defined in Article 3 of Annex VII of UNCLOS, the director of the ITLOS has to choose arbitrators because of the absence.
> 
> And up to now, China has made statements and actions representing views of not complying with a ruling made by the PCA on July 12, 2015. This behavior of China is justified that under Article 38, the regulation on the PCA is not in main sources of international law, so if China does not obey the ruling of the PCA, it does not mean that it is breaking international law. Legally, this argument is completely wrong.
> 
> As noted above, Article 296 of UNCLOS provides that the judgment of the International Court or the Court of Arbitration established under the UNCLOS (Annex VII) shall be final and binding to the parties mentioned in the ruling. China, though it did not appear at the Court, is still a party in the ruling, therefore it is obliged to implement this ruling. Otherwise, China will violate Article 296 of UNCLOS - this is a source of international law; thus, China does not comply with international law.
> 
> Finally, there is an argument that if China withdraws from the UNCLOS, China can avoid the implementation of the PCA’s ruling. This argument is hardly persuasive under the following two points. Firstly, under Article 317 of UNCLOS, member states have the right to denounce UNCLOS, but the denunciation does not include an obligation to implement the ruling in at least one year after it makesa declaration of withdrawal.
> 
> Secondly, as a member of UNCLOS, China benefits greatly from the provisions of UNCLOS, especially the institutions of the exclusive economic zone (EEZ) and the continental shelf. Thus, it is likely that China will not refuse these benefits only to evade the implementation of the ruling made on July 12, 2016
> 
> *Conclusion*
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> The arguments against the establishment of, competence, and the ruling and the legitimacy of the Court of Arbitration Annex VII solving the lawsuit between the Philippines and China from China and pro-China scholars may be dismissed logically and legally under international law. The PCA was very careful to split the proceedings into two different sessions. One session was held only to consider jurisdiction and the other to settle the dispute.
> 
> The final ruling of more than 500 pages thoroughly resolves each claim of the Philippines, showing the details of the court, and the coherence in each arguments of the judges. Therefore, China’s arguments against the court and its ruling show an attitude of disregarding justice and the superficial study of international law of the sea in particular and international law in general.
> 
> _*Pham Ngoc Minh Trang *_
> 
> _Faculty of International Relations, HCM City University of Social Sciences and Humanities_
> 
> -----


Vietnam is on its own if it wanna use the Kangaroo Court's ruling as the bargain tool with China over the South China Sea. The Philippines itself already ditched the faux and toothless ruling of the 3-person tribunal panel, now it can only lament upon the million dollars wasted for paying those three fortunate judges who laughed all the ways to their bank accounts. Think it may claim the reimbursement from Washington that had cheated it to proceed as such. Neither we hear anything from MAS and BRN govts sounding the Kangaroo Court's decisions.

Now the Vietnam is on its own among the claimants if it insist on chasing claims based on that invalidated ruling. Wanna see what the Viets can do over this issue aside from crying foul loudly. I dare Viet to ask the help from NATO force to back it up to see if it works its way  lol

Ignorance is bliss, reality is not.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cochine

Last update 10:03 | 24/02/2017
 


*Vietnam urges responsible behaviour in East Sea*
_Vietnam has reiterated its sovereignty over the Truong Sa (Spratly) and Hoang Sa (Paracels) archipelagoes, and held that all construction and reclamation at the two archipelagoes without Vietnam’s permission are illegal. _


_



_

_Foreign Ministry spokesperson Le Hai Binh_


Foreign Ministry spokesperson Le Hai Binh made the statement on February 23 in responding to reporters’ question on Vietnam’s reaction to reports that China has almost completed the construction of more than 20 structures which could be storage facilities of long-range surface-to-air missile on artificial islands in the East Sea. 

“Vietnam has sufficient legal grounds and historical evidence” to prove its sovereignty over the two archipelagos, Binh said, adding that Vietnam will verify the information.

He highlighted Vietnam’s consistent stance on settling disputes in the East Sea by peaceful measures in line with international law, including the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea, and with full and effective observance of the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the East Sea. 

“Vietnam urges related parties to behave in a responsible manner and refrain from taking any action that can further complicate the situation, particularly militarization that threatens peace, stability, security, safety and freedom of navigation and overflight in the East Sea,” he said.

_VNA_


----------



## terranMarine

Burning down foreign factories and killing people with forbidden chemical weapon are illegal

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cochine

Last update 09:38 | 01/03/2017
 


*Vietnam rejects China’s new fishing regulations*
_Vietnam resolutely opposes and rejects China’s new regulations on a fishing break at sea, Foreign Ministry’s spokesman Le Hai Binh has said. _


_



_

_Foreign Ministry’s spokesman Le Hai Binh_


He made the statement on February 28 in response to reporters’ queries about the Chinese Ministry of Agriculture’s official announcement on the application of the regulations, which also cover some waters areas of Vietnam. 

The spokesman emphasised that Vietnam has sufficient legal ground and historical evidence affirming its sovereignty over Hoang Sa (Paracel) archipelago as well as legitimate rights over its waters in line with the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS). 

Such unilateral decision made by China is a serious violation of Vietnam’s sovereignty over Hoang Sa, as well as her legal rights and interests over her waters, and international law, including the 1982 UNCLOS and relevant international legal documents. It runs counter to the spirit and wording of the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the East Sea (DOC), and makes the East Sea situation continuously complicated and tense, Binh stated.

_VNA_


----------



## samsara

*China takes another jab at US in war of words over South China Sea*

Advisory body spokesman bats away US criticism of China’s construction activities in contested waters, insisting they’re essential

By Jun Mai - South China Morning Post
PUBLISHED : Thursday, 02 March, 2017, 11:30pm
UPDATED : Friday, 03 March, 2017, 8:58am

*A senior Chinese politician defended Beijing’s right to build facilities on artificial islands in the South China Sea in comments that were seen as a veiled attack on the United States.*

The remarks on Thursday by *Wang Guoqing, spokesman for the country’s top political advisory body*, came after a US aircraft carrier group was sent to the disputed waters, and the PLA Navy staged combat exercises in the Western Pacific.

China and the US have waged a bitter war of words over maritime issues, with Washington accusing Beijing of militarising and obstructing freedom of navigation in the waters through its construction activities.

But without naming any particular nation, Wang dismissed such criticism as “_much ado about nothing_”.

*“Though peace reigns over the land, the stupid people create trouble for themselves,” Wang said before the opening of the annual session of the Chinese People’s Political Consultative Conference.*

_*“As the world’s largest trader and the country with the most coastline along the South China Sea, we care about the safety and freedom of navigation more than any other country,”*_ he said, adding that the facilities China had built were necessary for defence and had contributed to navigational safety and rescue efforts.

Tough questions, straight answers: China’s top diplomat on the South China Sea, North Korea, Japan, the US and more

The US Carl Vinson aircraft carrier strike group was reportedly patrolling in the waters last week. And yesterday, a number of PLA Navy bombers, jet fighters and early warning aircraft flew east through international airspace above the Miyako Strait near Japan’s Okinawa Island, conducting exercises with a Chinese naval fleet in the area, Xinhua reported.

China has stepped up its naval presence in the Western Pacific, with the Liaoning aircraft carrier passing through the Miyako Strait last year before going through the Bashi Channel between Taiwan and the Philippines.

China had nearly finished building almost two dozen structures on artificial islands in the South China Sea that appeared designed to house long-range surface-to-air missiles, US officials said last week. Analysts say the US presence in the waters will be strengthened after US President Donald Trump’s pledge to increase the defence budget.

China finishing buildings that may house missiles in South China Sea, say US officials

Teng Jianqun, from the China Institute of International Studies, said China and the US were in a “dilemma” over the South China Sea.

“I don’t think the US will compromise on freedom of navigation in the South China Sea, while China is trying to become a maritime power,” he said.

Wang also said China still had one of the world’s fastest rates of economic growth, with gross domestic product expanding by 6.7 per cent last year despite the global economic downturn.

“We definitely have reason to believe that China will remain the strongest engine in the world’s economy in the new year,” he said.

Additional reporting by Liu Zhen and Kristin Huang

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/poli...kes-another-jab-us-war-words-over-south-china

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cochine

Last update 06:30 | 12/01/2017

*New old map reinforces VN sovereignty over Hoang Sa*
_VietNamNet Bridge – Museums usually hold a fair share of historical treasures, but the Hoang Sa Museum being built in Da Nang City, has received one that is particularly priceless._







_Students of Da Nang join a field tour to study the history of the Hoang Sa (Paracels) and Truong Sa (Spratly) Archipelagos at the city’s Museum. Photos: Cong Thanh/ VNS_

An American-Vietnamese collector, Tran Thang, has donated to the Hoang Sa (Paracel) Island District the Pattie De La Conchinchine, an 1827 map printed in the six-volume World Atlas (Atlas universel) by Belgium cartographer Phillippe Vandermaelen (1795-1869).

The map, 1.2m wide and 0.85m high, is one of the most detailed maps indicating clearly Viet Nam’s sovereignty over the Hoang Sa (Paracels) Islands. The map is part of many that Thang has collected in Europe and the US since 2012.

The map, drawn by Philippe Vandermaelen, founder of the Belgium Royal Geographical Society, indicates that the central coast of Viet Nam stretched from the 12th parallel (in the area of what is Khanh Hoa Province now, to the 16th parallel (Quang Nam Province now).

The names used in the map are Bink-Knag, or Nhia Trang (Nha Trang City), and Champella (Cu Lao Cham or Cham Island).

The map also shows Hoang Sa (Paracels) Islands offshore between the 14th and 17th latitudes, and from the 109th to 113th longitudes.

The Hoang Sa (Paracels) Islands have been drawn in great detail accuracy, including Pattles, Duncan in the west; Tree and Lincoln, Bocher au dessas de l’eau in the east and Triton in the southwest near the 16th parallel, Investigateur in the south in the 14.5 parallel, and marking of a sea area 5m-10m deep to Quin Hone (Quy Nhon City in Binh Dinh Province now) in the 14th parallel.

“I’ve spent a lot of time collecting old maps that state or identify Viet Nam’s sovereignty over the Hoang Sa (Paracels) and Truong Sa (Spratly) Archipelagos. I wish to contribute more documents to the Hoang Sa Museum in Da Nang City,” Thang said.

“I have collected and donated 150 old maps, of which 80 Chinese maps indicate the frontier of Southern China is Hainan Island, and 50 indicate that the Paracels Archipelago belongs to Viet Nam,” Thang said.

Thang said the Pattie De La Conchinchine was a rare map printed early in the 19th century in great precision, using western written names of the islands in the Hoang Sa Archipelago.

He said Conchinchine, a name used to indicate the central region of Annam (a French protectorate encompassing the central region of Viet Nam), was part of Annam, and Hoang Sa (Paracels) was under sovereignty of Viet Nam at least from 19th century onwards.

Thang, who is president of the Institute for Vietnamese Culture and Education (IVCE) in the US, said the 1827-printed Pattie De La Conchinchine also identified coastal islands of Cham Collac ou Champella (or Cu Lao Cham, or Cham Island off the coast of Hoi An City), and P.Canton ou Cacitam (Cu Lao Re, or Ly Son Island off the coast of Quang Ngai Province).

Vo Ngoc Dong, Chairman of the Hoang Sa (Paracels) Island District, said the map was a highly precious document for Hoang Sa Archipelago.

“It’s a treasure for the Hoang Sa Islands. The map will enrich the store of documents and artifacts related to history of Hoang Sa Islands, and facilitate further studies on Viet Nam’s islands,” Dong said.

Over three years (2012-2014), Thang had collected 150 old maps published between 1826 and 1980 in England, America, France, Germany and Scotland from antique shops in the US, England and Poland.

Among the maps and atlases donated to the Da Nang Museum are two Postal Atlas Maps of China published by the Directorate General of Posts, Ministry of Transportation of the Republic of China in 1919 (consisting of 49 maps), in 1933 (29 maps) and one Atlas of the Chinese Empire, published by the China Inland Mission in 1909 (23 maps).

None of these three volumes list the Paracels and Spratlys in the maps and index pages.

Tran Duc Anh Son, deputy director of the Da Nang-based Institute for Socio-Economic Development (ISED), said the collection of old maps was significant evidence that the two archipelagoes belonged to Viet Nam.

"We can classify that the collection comprises three kinds of maps: 68 old maps of China showing that China did not have the Paracel and Spratlys islands; six maps that indicate those islands belong to Viet Nam; five maps of the Southeast Asian region that show Paracel and Spratly archipelagoes under Vietnamese sovereignty," Son said.

He said the map collection had been displayed during the ‘Sea and Islands Week’ held nationwide last year.






_The original Pattie De La Conchinchine._






_Tran Thang (L) donates an 1827-printed map, Pattie De La Conchinchine, drawn by Belgium cartographer Phillippe Vandermaelen (1795-1869), to the Hoang Sa District’s People’s committee yesterday. _

Ly Son Island, 30km offshore from Quang Ngai Province, still preserves the Am Linh Pagoda, a place of worship for seamen dispatched to the Paracel Islands since the 17th century during the reign of the Nguyen Dynasty.

A museum of the two archipelagoes displays over 200 ancient documents and 100 objects proving that the Paracel and Spratly archipelagoes belong to Viet Nam.

In 2015, Da Nang presented a Certificate of Merit to Tran Thang for his donation of a 150 map collection. Last year, at a conference on Conflict in the South China Sea (called East Sea by Viet Nam) at the Yale University in Connecticut, the US, Thang also displayed a collection of 40 ancient maps indicating the Hoang Sa (Paracel) Islands belong to Viet Nam.

The Hoang Sa Museum, under construction on the Da Nang coast, stores collections of maps, documents, photos and objects on the Hoang Sa and Truong Sa archipelagoes.

In its adjusted urban master plan until 2030 with a vision until 2050, the city will develop the Hoang Sa (Paracel) Archipelago on 30,500ha.

The history of Da Nang and its relationship with the Hoang Sa (Paracel) Archipelago was introduced into secondary and high school textbooks last year.


----------



## samsara

*Vessel embarks on maiden voyage to the Xisha Islands 西沙群岛*

SCMP, 2017-03-03





_New Chinese cruise ship to serve Xisha Islands 西沙群岛 in the South China Sea_

A new Chinese cruise ship has embarked on its maiden voyage to the Xisha Islands 西沙群岛 in the South China Sea, the Xinhua said on Friday. The Changle Gongzhu, or Changle Princess sailed from Sanya on the southern Chinese island province of Hainan on Thursday afternoon with 308 passengers on a four-day voyage, Xinhua said.

The new ship can carry 499 people and has 82 guest rooms with dining, entertainment, shopping, medical and postal services on board, it added. Tourists will be able to visit the following three islands of the Xisha Islands 西沙群岛: Yinyu 银屿岛, Quanfu 全富岛 and Yagong 鸭公岛.

China has previously said it plans to build hotels, villas and shops on the islands and has also stated that it wants to build Maldives-style resorts around the South China Sea. The first cruises from China to the Xisha Islands 西沙群岛 were launched by Hainan Strait Shipping Co in 2013.

---------------------------

_I wish one day in not too distant future foreigners can have sightseeing too in those South China Sea's better versions of the Maldives island...  For once China builds it will definitely build the better versions... it has every needed resource to independently turn the harsh islands/islets/atolls into the new paradises of Nanhai!_

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cochine

*PH officials, US envoy visit supercarrier operating in West Philippine Sea*

March 4, 2017 Joel Dizon Nation 0

ShareTweet


Philippine government officials with United States Ambassador to the Philippines Sung Kim were transported by 2 US Navy C-2 Greyhound aircraft to nuclear-powered Nimitz-class supercarrier USS Carl Vinson (CVN 70) which is currently operating in West Philippine Sea, ABS-CBN News said in a report releasing an exclusive video. ABS-CBN News joined the said visit to US supercarrier.


The Philippine government officials include Defense Secretary Delfin Lorenzana, Finance Secretary Carlos Dominguez and Justice Secretary Vitaliano Aguirre II together with three other security officials.

United States Carl Vinson Carrier Strike Group (CSG 1), with lead-ship USS Carl Vinson (CVN 70), started routine patrol operations in the West Philippine Sea and entire South China Sea, February 18.

The carrier strike group departed Naval Base San Diego in San Diego, California January 5 for a “regularly scheduled deployment” to the western Pacific.




“Prior to their operations in the South China Sea, ships and aircraft from within the strike group conducted training off the islands of Hawaii and Guam to maintain and improve their readiness and develop cohesion as a strike group,” US Navy said.

“The strike group recently enjoyed a port visit to Guam and after departing the Marianas, conducted operations in the Philippine Sea,” it added.

While operating within US Navy 7th Fleets AOR, the Carrier Strike Group will remain to be under the command of US 3rd Fleet command and control. US 3rd Fleet is responsible for the eastern and northern Pacific ocean. Both 7th and 3rd Fleet are under United States Pacific Fleet.

http://www.update.ph/2017/03/ph-off...arrier-operating-in-west-philippine-sea/15146


----------



## JSCh

*China to build another Hainan base, protect ecology around islands*
(Global Times) 08:19, March 06, 2017

South China's Sansha, which administers several island groups in the South China Sea, including some disputed islets, is pushing to preserve the ecology and is building another base in Hainan to provide logistics support, the city's mayor said.

The Philippines, in its arbitral case against China over the disputed waters which ended last year, accused China of harming the maritime ecological system and environment in the South China Sea.

"The central government has approved an outline to protect the environment in Sansha, Xisha, Nansha and Zhongsha islands. The plan stresses ecological preservation, and is the focus of six projects, including the restoration of islands and reefs, coastline restoration, providing surveillance for the marine environment and foresting the islands," Xiao Jie, mayor and Party chief of Sansha, Hainan Province, said after the Hainan delegates met on Saturday in Beijing.

Xiao said environmental preservation in Sansha is part of China's long-term national interests in the region and how China protects its rights.

Sansha has pushed for the use of solar power and electric motorbikes on the islands, and uses rooftops to collect rainwater, Xiao added.

The city planted 2 million trees on the islands in 2016, and Xiao told the Global Times that the city is considering planting 1 million more trees this year.

The city is also planning to integrate military and civilian facilities. Xiao noted that many resources, including civilian buildings on the island, can be used by the military.

Meanwhile, Sansha is building a base on Mulan Bay harbor in Wenchang, Hainan Province to provide logistical support, maritime emergency rescue facilities and resource development in the region.

Mulan Bay harbor is a deepwater port 40 kilometers from Hainan's capital Haikou, China Ocean News reported. The harbor, once completed, would be able to greatly boost Sansha's transportation capabilities and provide maintenance services to ships traveling to and from Sansha.

The Qinglan port in Sanya, Hainan currently provides logistic services to Sansha.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## cochine

*Third Japan-made patrol vessel to officially enter Coast Guard service tomorrow*

March 6, 2017 Ace dela Cruz Nation 0

ShareTweet


The Philippine Coast Guard will be commissioning the third Parola-class Multi-role Response Vessel (MRRV) built by Japan Marine United tomorrow, March 7. The commissioning ceremony will be held at Headquarters Philippine Coast Guard, Pier 15, South Harbor, Port Area, Manila.


The said vessel is BRP Malapascua (MRRV-4403). She is the third of 10 ordered 44-meter MRRVs from Japan Marine United.

House Speaker Pantaleon Alvarez will be attending as Guest of Honor and Speaker, the Coast Guard said. Department of Transportation Secretary Arthur Tugade will be attending as presiding officer.

BRP Tubbataha (MRRV-4401) and BRP Malabrigo (MRRV-4402), the first and second Parola-class vessels were commissioned to coast guard service, December 2016 and October 2016, respectively.






The Philippine government has ordered 10 vessels from Japan through the Maritime Safety Capability Improvement Project (MSCIP) Phase I. Deliveries are expected every quarter until completion of 10 units in 2018.

According to MCIP, will act as (1) “primary rescue vessels within the PCG District’s areas of responsibility (AOR) when the extent of the disaster is beyond the capability of floating assets deployed within the area.”

The MRRVs will also (2) assist in controlling oil pollution and protection of the marine environment. (3) These vessels will also enforce applicable maritime laws within the designated AOR, particularly relating to illegal fishing and sea patrol. The vessels will provide (4) service as platform for rapid response during relief operations in the area, and (5) transport of personnel and logistical support.
http://www.update.ph/2017/03/third-...ally-enter-coast-guard-service-tomorrow/15231


----------



## TaiShang

*Intoxicating Xisha Islands scenery in China's South China Sea*
(People's Daily Online) 16:17, March 06, 2017




Photo shows the picturesque scenery of the Xisha Islands in the South China Sea. The Xisha Islands are famous for their beaches and pristine ecosystem. (Chinanews.com/Hong Jianpeng)




Photo shows the picturesque scenery of the Xisha Islands in the South China Sea. The Xisha Islands are famous for their beaches and pristine ecosystem. (Chinanews.com/Hong Jianpeng)




Photo shows the picturesque scenery of the Xisha Islands in the South China Sea. The Xisha Islands are famous for their beaches and pristine ecosystem. (Chinanews.com/Hong Jianpeng)

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cochine

*First look at Vietnam’s newest stealth submarines*
By Xuan Ngoc February 28, 2017 | 04:17 pm GMT+7
*An official ceremony was held on Tuesday to show off the two latest Kilo-class attack submarines built by Russia.*




HQ-187 Ba Ria-Vung Tau is the last in a series of six Kilo-class diesel-electric submarines that Vietnam ordered from Russia in a deal worth $2 billion. The submarine was delivered in January by the Dutch-registered vessel the Rolldock Storm.





HQ-186 Da Nang is the fifth in the pack, which arrived in Vietnam in February 2016, three years after the first was delivered.





The Kilo-class submarines are built with advanced stealth technology, extended combat range and modern navigation systems.





Each submarine, with space for 52 crew members, can operate at a maximum depth of 300 meters with a range of 9,600 kilometers over 45 days.





Vietnam’s Air Force joined the ceremony with an aerial display.





Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc waves as he joins government officials at the ceremony.





A similar ceremony was held in August 2015 to unveil two other submarines 184 Hai Phong and 185 Khanh Hoa. The first two submarines, 182 Hanoi and 183 Ho Chi Minh City, were presented in 2014.

_Photos by VnExpress/Xuan Ngoc_


----------



## samsara

*Indonesia backs away from joint patrols with Australia in South China Sea*

By Amanda Hodge - South East Asia correspondent, Jakarta, The Australian - 2017-03-07

The Indonesian government appears to have backed away from president Joko Widodo’s comments opening the door to joint patrols with Australia in the South China Sea, two weeks after the president made the remarks in an exclusive interview with The Australian .

It is the second time the Indonesian government has back pedaled on the issue of joint patrols with Australia, after its defence minister Ryamizard Ryacudu also flagged the possibility of joint “peace patrols” last October during discussions with Julie Bishop and Defence Minister Martine Payne, only for the foreign ministry to wind back his remarks.

Mr Ryamizard told reporters he had proposed a peace patrol with Australia in the South China Sea to “bring peace” and combat illegal fishing, and both Australian ministers more vaguely confirmed the discussions after their Bali meeting

During a 20-minute interview at the presidential palace a few days before Jokowi’s first state visit to Australia last month The Australian asked the president several questions on the South China Sea issue which flared again recently over hawkish remarks made by US Secretary of State Rex Tillerson that China could not be allowed access to its artificial islands there.

Mr Widodo demurred on questions over whether he was concerned about escalating tensions in the region under a Trump presidency.

But when asked directly whether there was a possibility of Australia and Indonesia conducting joint patrols together in the South China Sea, as his defence minister had raised four months earlier, Mr Widodo answered with considerable thoughtfulness.

Here is the full transcript of the question and Mr Widodo’s response.

“Just on the South China Sea and my last question on that. Your defence minister Ryamizard mentioned last year there was a possibility of Australia-Indonesia joint patrols. Is that something you foresee could be a possibility in the near future? Perhaps around the Natuna islands, Indonesia’s own territory?”

“Yea it depends,” Mr Widodo answers, before pausing for a full 30 seconds to formulate his answer.

“If there is …… If there is tension like last year, it’s difficult to decide this program. But if there is no tension I think it’s very important to have patrols together.”

When asked whether that would be something he would discuss with Mr Turnbull he replied: “Yea… I will discuss with PM Turnbull.”

The comments prompted some consternation in Jakarta, with the country’s major english speaking newspaper Jakarta Post citing the Institute for Defence Security and Peace Studies warning it could “cause confusion” and potentially raise tensions with China.

When asked about the issue yesterday Julie Bishop said her understanding was that Mr Widodo had been talking about coordinating efforts to ensure freedom of navigation in the South China Sea, a critical trade route, and “not joint patrols as such”.

“I have been told that he was talking about cooperating to ensure there was freedom of overflight and navigation,” she said.

*But in Jakarta today for the Indian Ocean Rim Association leaders’ summit, Mr Turnbull gave a more nuanced answer.*

*“The discussions we have had - and I’m being very careful about this - firstly we are not going to take any actions which would increase tensions in the South China Sea.*

*“Everyone has a vested interest in reducing that. And we are certainly determined and agreed to work more closely together but that’s the limit of what I can say and that’s the limit of any discussions.*

“It’s a question of further coordination and cooperation in terms of maritime security as referred to not least in the IORA Concorde today. Maritime security and the support of the blue economy.”

The nuance seems to lie not in whether the two nations are discussing greater cooperation on the South China Sea, but whether they are discussing coordinated” or “joint” exercises.

When asked last October to explain the difference Minister Ryamizard replied: “It’s a joint patrol or coordinated patrol, it’s the same thing.”

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## samsara

*Is Beijing outflanking U.S. in South China Sea?*

by Peter Apps - Japan Today, 2017-03-07

LONDON — For much of the last week, the U.S. aircraft carrier Carl Vinson has been patrolling the South China Sea. *It is just the kind of display of Washington’s power and global reach that the U.S. Navy excels at* – both to reassure allies and, in this case, send a message to potential foes.

*How much longer Washington will be able to perform such operations unchallenged, however, is an increasingly open question.*

Some military experts project that within a little more than a decade, China’s People’s Liberation Army Navy may have more warships than Washington under its command. Beijing’s military buildup is part of its strategy to dominate many disputed territories in the South China Sea – and push America back.

Retaining U.S. global military dominance is at the heart of President Donald Trump’s plan to up Pentagon spending by $54 billion, or roughly 9 percent. That alone, however, will not be enough to maintain Washington’s regional military edge. China’s own defense budget has increased by double digits almost every year for the last two decades – although it slowed slightly last year. More importantly, Beijing is also adopting a range of tactics to which Washington lacks a truly effective response.

While Washington’s approach in Asia has always been focused on its ability to move aircraft carriers through China’s backyard, Beijing has been doing everything it can to tilt the strategic balance against its possible foes. It’s a strategy that includes new weapons systems, considerable conventional naval expansion but also a host of other tactics including building naval bases, floating power stations and artificial islands.

Some current and former U.S. military officials believe it is a question of when, rather than if, a regional conflict takes place. What seems equally plausible is a decades-long – and perhaps largely bloodless – confrontation remaining just below the threshold of anything that might trigger actual war.

That may well be China’s plan.

It’s a game that Beijing has played in increasing earnest since 1995, when the Chinese military fired several missiles and conducted military maneuvers around Taiwan, which Beijing sees as a breakaway province. U.S. President Bill Clinton responded by sending two aircraft carriers to patrol the waters between Taiwan and mainland China, a move that Beijing’s military could do little to stop without sparking a war it knew it would not win.

*Since then, China has focused on gaining the ability to keep U.S. forces – particularly aircraft carriers – out of its immediate neighborhood. Many analysts believe it now possesses enough weapons technology – submarines, missiles and strike aircraft in particular – that U.S. planners would be reluctant to risk their carriers that close to China’s coast again.*

China is believed to have thousands of ballistic missiles aimed at the island, as well as naval weaponry to destroy nearby warships. Some experts believe Beijing might try to regain control of the island sometime in the next two decades.

Beijing’s next immediate goal appears to be expanding its military capability much further out – to a number of potentially energy-rich atolls and islands claimed by the Philippines, Vietnam and Malaysia.

*No one has a strategy to stop the Chinese. At his confirmation hearings, new U.S. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson raised eyebrows by suggesting U.S. forces might somehow deny China access to the disputed islands. That would almost certainly start a war, however, and the idea has not been mentioned since.*

China has also become increasingly focused on acquiring the kind of high-level, high-value military assets that the United States has used against it in the past. China’s first aircraft carrier – a former Soviet vessel rebuilt – is becoming ever more effective, although it remains primarily used for training. In December, it conducted what appeared to be its first long-range patrol outside China’s coastal waters. China is also constructing its first domestically built carrier and reportedly working on another.

Such ships are important to Beijing’s international image – witness the attention Russia got through sending its only carrier to conduct airstrikes in Syria late last year. *So are the ballistic missile submarines that – like Russia – Beijing is increasingly building, a stark reminder to any potential enemies of the cataclysmic consequences of outright war.*

According to some estimates, over the next 10 to 15 years, China could build its fleet to a total of 500, including up to four aircraft carriers and 100 submarines as well as smaller but sophisticated corvettes, patrol boats and other combat craft. That compares to Trump’s planned expansion of the U.S. Navy to some 350 vessels, including a larger proportion of more powerful vessels, but spread across the entire world.

*In sailing through the disputed waters of the South China Sea, the Carl Vinson has once again shown America’s military might. In the event of an actual war, however, it is far from clear how long such a massive vessel would survive before being sunk.*

*In any case, the Carl Vinson will be gone next week – although other forces will remain – and the Chinese will still be building.*

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## cochine

*1000 US MARINES, JAPANESE SOLDIERS CONDUCT MANEUVERS WITH EYE ON CHINA*
Posted on March 7, 2017




US Marine Corps Photo.
Share on FacebookTweet on Twitter


A combination of 1,000 Japanese and American service members in Marine joined the overall combat exercises which honor the hard work and cooperation of the Americans and Japanese that liberated both Osea and Isea.

Conducted annually since 2006, this year’s Iron Fist training began in early February in California and concluded Monday morning.

During the drills, the Japanese soldiers and American Marines blasted apart targets with mortars, artillery, rockets and tens of thousands of rounds of rifle and machine-gun fire.

Everyone takes orders from the Japanese commander when he’s the highest official in the room. When Marine Maj. Gen. David Coffman — deputy commander of the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force — arrived on the beach alongside Kaida a week later, they issued commands together as equals.

Throughout the past month, neither American nor Japanese commanders would reveal the identity of the fictional enemy they schemed to defeat. But defense analysts told the Union-Tribune that it obviously was China, a nation that asserts numerous territorial claims throughout the Western Pacific and South China Sea, including islands long held by Japan.

Osea is actually San Clemente Island, which is routinely pounded by Navy warships and planes for training purposes, and Isea is a fictional dollop of the sprawling Camp Pendleton that was demarcated just for Iron Fist.

http://tankler.com/1000-us-marinvcv...s-conduct-maneuvers-with-eye-on-chinacv-13213


----------



## terranMarine

The news is not even related to South China Sea  , @kecho is so desperate posting US - JP military exercise to proof something?

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## TaiShang

samsara said:


> *Indonesia backs away from joint patrols with Australia in South China Sea*
> 
> By Amanda Hodge - South East Asia correspondent, Jakarta, The Australian - 2017-03-07
> 
> The Indonesian government appears to have backed away from president Joko Widodo’s comments opening the door to joint patrols with Australia in the South China Sea, two weeks after the president made the remarks in an exclusive interview with The Australian .
> 
> It is the second time the Indonesian government has back pedaled on the issue of joint patrols with Australia, after its defence minister Ryamizard Ryacudu also flagged the possibility of joint “peace patrols” last October during discussions with Julie Bishop and Defence Minister Martine Payne, only for the foreign ministry to wind back his remarks.
> 
> Mr Ryamizard told reporters he had proposed a peace patrol with Australia in the South China Sea to “bring peace” and combat illegal fishing, and both Australian ministers more vaguely confirmed the discussions after their Bali meeting
> 
> During a 20-minute interview at the presidential palace a few days before Jokowi’s first state visit to Australia last month The Australian asked the president several questions on the South China Sea issue which flared again recently over hawkish remarks made by US Secretary of State Rex Tillerson that China could not be allowed access to its artificial islands there.
> 
> Mr Widodo demurred on questions over whether he was concerned about escalating tensions in the region under a Trump presidency.
> 
> But when asked directly whether there was a possibility of Australia and Indonesia conducting joint patrols together in the South China Sea, as his defence minister had raised four months earlier, Mr Widodo answered with considerable thoughtfulness.
> 
> Here is the full transcript of the question and Mr Widodo’s response.
> 
> “Just on the South China Sea and my last question on that. Your defence minister Ryamizard mentioned last year there was a possibility of Australia-Indonesia joint patrols. Is that something you foresee could be a possibility in the near future? Perhaps around the Natuna islands, Indonesia’s own territory?”
> 
> “Yea it depends,” Mr Widodo answers, before pausing for a full 30 seconds to formulate his answer.
> 
> “If there is …… If there is tension like last year, it’s difficult to decide this program. But if there is no tension I think it’s very important to have patrols together.”
> 
> When asked whether that would be something he would discuss with Mr Turnbull he replied: “Yea… I will discuss with PM Turnbull.”
> 
> The comments prompted some consternation in Jakarta, with the country’s major english speaking newspaper Jakarta Post citing the Institute for Defence Security and Peace Studies warning it could “cause confusion” and potentially raise tensions with China.
> 
> When asked about the issue yesterday Julie Bishop said her understanding was that Mr Widodo had been talking about coordinating efforts to ensure freedom of navigation in the South China Sea, a critical trade route, and “not joint patrols as such”.
> 
> “I have been told that he was talking about cooperating to ensure there was freedom of overflight and navigation,” she said.
> 
> *But in Jakarta today for the Indian Ocean Rim Association leaders’ summit, Mr Turnbull gave a more nuanced answer.*
> 
> *“The discussions we have had - and I’m being very careful about this - firstly we are not going to take any actions which would increase tensions in the South China Sea.*
> 
> *“Everyone has a vested interest in reducing that. And we are certainly determined and agreed to work more closely together but that’s the limit of what I can say and that’s the limit of any discussions.*
> 
> “It’s a question of further coordination and cooperation in terms of maritime security as referred to not least in the IORA Concorde today. Maritime security and the support of the blue economy.”
> 
> The nuance seems to lie not in whether the two nations are discussing greater cooperation on the South China Sea, but whether they are discussing coordinated” or “joint” exercises.
> 
> When asked last October to explain the difference Minister Ryamizard replied: “It’s a joint patrol or coordinated patrol, it’s the same thing.”



Vietnam needs to confront China alone, if it wishes to stir up troubles in the SCS. Nobody will risk their lives for them. Not the Indonesians. Not the Filipinos. Not even the USers who often seek meat shields for their own strategic goals. 

If VCP catches Kecho, he/she will be seriously reprimanded for painting Vietnam in such an aggressive way.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## terranMarine

TaiShang said:


> Vietnam needs to confront China alone, if it wishes to stir up troubles in the SCS. Nobody will risk their lives for them. Not the Indonesians. Not the Filipinos. Not even the USers who often seek meat shields for their own strategic goals.
> 
> If VCP catches Kecho, he/she will be seriously reprimanded for painting Vietnam in such an aggressive way.



Perhaps we have to warn VCP about it don't we? @kecho is working nonstop posting news articles related to any US or JP military drills. You might think he has an agenda like promoting US or JP clashing with China. Someone here doesn't wish for a peaceful region at all. Vietnam stands alone, which is what we have been saying all this time. PH, Indon, Malay none of these countries are gonna escalate things with China especially on behalf of Vietnam.

This image is only the wet dream of Vietnam





This is the reality

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## TaiShang

terranMarine said:


> Perhaps we have to warn VCP about it don't we? @kecho is working nonstop posting news articles related to any US or JP military drills. You might think he has an agenda like promoting US or JP clashing with China. Someone here doesn't wish for a peaceful region at all. Vietnam stands alone, which is what we have been saying all this time. PH, Indon, Malay none of these countries are gonna escalate things with China especially on behalf of Vietnam.



When it comes to sovereignty, there is no ASEAN unity. ASEAN does/cannot touch sovereignty issues. Besides, inside ASEAN, the Philippines probably blew up more Vietnam fishing boats in their claimed waters than Chinese boats.

So, in SCS, everybody is against everybody and China has been promoting a peaceful regional existence in which the US is kept in check. The message, although slowly, is getting through the leadership of several countries, including the Philippines, Malaysia, and now, as @samsara shared, Indonesia.

Vietnam is lonelier than it was in 2016. That's probably why the VCP is much more cautious and China does not want to give them a bad face at the moment.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## terranMarine

TaiShang said:


> When it comes to sovereignty, there is no ASEAN unity. ASEAN does/cannot touch sovereignty issues. Besides, inside ASEAN, the Philippines probably blew up more Vietnam fishing boats in their claimed waters than Chinese boats.
> 
> So, in SCS, everybody is against everybody and China has been promoting a peaceful regional existence in which the US is kept in check. The message, although slowly, is getting through the leadership of several countries, including the Philippines, Malaysia, and now, as @samsara shared, Indonesia.
> 
> Vietnam is lonelier than it was in 2016. That's probably why the VCP is much more cautious and China does not want to give them a bad face at the moment.



That's why whoever claims to be the leader of ASEAN is only humiliating himself. What leader? 
Duterte got the message, US isn't generous or any trustworthy. The Yankees abandoned them, not willing to foot the $30 million bill, only want to use PH for its own agenda. Najib's a$$ was saved by China. Indonesia acted like some tough motha fucka (so called leader) and now toned down it's voice. Which leaves us to Vietnam (another so called leader) who is so disappointed that the tension had died down so he's now trying to suck up to the BIG BOSS of ASIA (now that's a title that has true meaning).

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cochine

terranMarine said:


> Perhaps we have to warn VCP about it don't we? @kecho is working nonstop posting news articles related to any US or JP military drills. You might think he has an agenda like promoting US or JP clashing with China. Someone here doesn't wish for a peaceful region at all. Vietnam stands alone, which is what we have been saying all this time. PH, Indon, Malay none of these countries are gonna escalate things with China especially on behalf of Vietnam.
> 
> This image is only the wet dream of Vietnam
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the reality
> View attachment 382474



*CHINA BANS FISHING IN VIETNAMESE WATERS*
Posted on March 8, 2017





Share on FacebookTweet on Twitter


The government of Vietnam has condemned China for imposing a fishing ban over its territory in the Paracel Islands, a South China Sea archipelago that China illegally claims as its own.

The Chinese Ministry of Agriculture announced a ban last week on fishing in multiple regions of the South China Sea, including the Gulf of Tonkin and the waters of Vietnam’s Paracel Islands. Between May 1 and August 16, the Chinese Coast Guard will prevent Vietnamese fishermen from exploiting the resources within Chinese sovereign territory.

The Vietnamese Foreign Ministry said China made a serious violation of the nation’s sovereignty. “Vietnam resolutely opposes and rejects the regulation issued by China,” Foreign Ministry spokesman Le Hai Binh said last week.

According to the English-language regional outlet Vietnam Net, Binh added that Vietnam “has sufficient legal ground and historical evidence affirming its sovereignty over Hoang Sa (Paracel) archipelago as well as legitimate rights over its waters in line with the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS).”

The Chinese government claims most of the South China Sea, including the sovereign waters of Vietnam, the Philippines, Taiwan, Brunei, Malaysia, and Indonesia.

http://tankler.com/china-bans-fishing-in-vietnamese-waters-13261

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## samsara

*China not to allow South China Sea stability to be disturbed: FM*

Source: Xinhua | 2017-03-08 12:46:12 | Editor: huaxia





Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi answers questions on China's foreign policy and foreign relations at a press conference for the fifth session of the 12th National People's Congress in Beijing, capital of China, March 8, 2017. (Xinhua/Cui Xinyu)

BEIJING, March 8 (Xinhua) -- *China will never allow hard-won stability in the South China Sea to be disturbed or undermined again*, Foreign Minister Wang Yi said on Wednesday.

The situation in the South China Sea has calmed down visibly as a result of the joint efforts of China and the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) countries, a blessing to the region and the world, he told a press conference on the sidelines of the national legislature's annual session.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2017-03/08/c_136112302.htm

~~~~~~~~~~~

*China Never Allows Hard-Won Stability in South China Sea to Be Disrupted Again: FM*

_Foreign Minister Wang Yi updates the press with the latest development_





With full English translation

~~~~~~~~~~~

*FM Wang Yi: Situation in South China Sea has calmed down visibly*

_FM Wang Yi takes questions from journalists_





With full English translation

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cochine

*VIETNAM TO DEPLOY MANY SHIPS AFTER CHINA BANS THEM FROM FISHING*
Posted on March 8, 2017





Share on FacebookTweet on Twitter


Vietnam announced recently it would send more surveillance ships to protect its fishermen, who have come under attack by Chinese Coast Guard ships in the past.

China’s Ministry of Agriculture on Monday issued a ban on fishing in a number of areas from May 1 to August 16, which include Vietnam’s Gulf of Tonkin near the Hoang Sa (Paracel) Islands in the East Sea.

Vietnam has condemned the ban, saying China’s move has seriously violated its maritime sovereignty over Hoang Sa.

The Directorate of Fisheries under Vietnam’s Ministry of Agriculture and Rural Development will deploy fisheries surveillance ships across its territorial waters with a focus on the areas where China has issued its illegal fishing ban, Vu Duyen Hai, an official from the directorate, told a press briefing on March 3.

In the past, China has used force against Vietnam more than any other South China Sea rival. In 2014, Chinese ships sunk a Vietnamese fishing vessel in Vietnamese waters, claiming the fishermen had “forcefully intruded into the area of a Chinese company’s oil rig and capsized” rather than being sunk.

A year later, A Chinese ship rammed itself into another Vietnamese ship until it sank, leaving the entire crew floating on lifeboats in the middle of the South China Sea until Vietnamese rescue teams saved them.
http://tankler.com/vietnam-to-dbhue...hips-after-china-bans-them-from-fishing-13269

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## samsara

*First cruises, now flights  China plans to fly tourists to South China Sea islands*

SCMP - 2017-03-07





_Chinese tourists pictured on a cruise to the Xisha Islands 西沙群岛 (Photo Liu Zhen / SCMP)_

*The authorities in southern China want to launch tour flights to the Xisha Islands 西沙群岛 in the South China Sea.*

If approved, the move is likely to further anger Vietnam, which also has territorial claims to the Xisha.





_A Chinese documentary movie about the heroic repossessing of the Xisha Islands 西沙群岛 in 1974 was shown during the sailing (scmp.tv)_





_A Chinese flag raising ceremony attended by tourists in Quanfu Island 全富岛, Xisha (scmp.tv)_

*The air tour plans have been listed as a priority by the authorities on the southern Chinese island of Hainan this year* and they are trying to gain approval from the relevant ministries and the military, according to a document released by the provinces delegates at the National Peoples Congress (NPC) in Beijing.

Chinese firms already operate cruise ships in the South China Sea, but these would be the first flights to the region.

*Hainan is the centre of cruise ship operations to the South China Sea and the island is aiming to expand the scale of its tours to the Xisha.*

Two major cruise ships now operate in the Xisha, *the Dream of the South China Sea* and *the Changle Princess*.

*The city of Sansha administers the islands in the South China Sea, including the Nansha, the Xisha, and Huangyan Dao 黄岩岛.* Its mayor, Xiao Jie, said on Tuesday during the NPC in Beijing that China would continue to strengthen its sovereignty claims in the area.

_One of our priorities is to strengthen our administrative authority starting from grassroots organisations,_ he said.

Xiao said 10 residential committees has been set up in the Xisha, including Yongxing Island 永兴岛, where China has stationed military equipment and soldiers. Such government agencies were set up to exhibit Chinas administrative authority and sovereignty, Xiao said.

He declined to comment on whether China would extend its presence to other islands in the South China Sea.





_Tourists on Xisha Islands 西沙群岛 (Photo Liu Zhen / SCMP)_





_A Chinese cruise ship operating in the Xisha Islands 西沙群岛 (Photo Liu Zhen / SCMP)_

*The number of tourists to the Xisha surged 48.8 per cent last year to 12,038, the document said.*

*Construction is under way to expand the Sanya Phoenix Island International Cruise Terminal, which connects Hainan with the Xisha, the report said.*

The Changle Princess began its maiden voyage last week from Sanya to the Xisha.

China began daily civilian charter flights between Hainans Haikou and Yongxing Island in the Xisha in December, but the routes mainly serve officials and stationed soldiers.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## JSCh

*Most advanced rescue ship put into use in South China Sea*
(Xinhua) 08:58, March 09, 2017

China's first vessel capable of conducting rescue in deep, open water was delivered and put into service on Wednesday in the South China Sea.

The ship, Nanhaijiu 102, is the most advanced rescue vessel in the area and will play a role in emergencies, said the Ministry of Transport.

An all-weather, high-powered rescue ship designed and built by China, is 127 meters long and 16 meters wide, with displacement of 7,300 tonnes and range of 16,000 nautical miles.

Carrying a towing system and autonomous underwater vehicle that can dive as deep as 6,000 meters, the ship is the country's first rescue ship that can conduct air, sea and underwater searches at the same time.

The ministry said Nanhaijiu 102, which can rescue 200 people at a time, is designed for bad sea conditions including 12th grade waves and is suitable for the refueling and landing of helicopters.

China has 74 special rescue ships, among which 31 are in southern sea areas. In addition, the country has 20 rescue helicopters, according to the ministry.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## samsara

*Hainan wants to add flights to bring more tourists to South China Sea islands*

Shanghaiist, 2017-03-07

Hainan delegates at this year's National People's Congress (NPC) in Beijing have released a document stating that *tour flights to the Xisha Islands 西沙群岛 are one of their priorities for this year*.





_The dazzling beauty of the Xisha Islands 西沙群岛 in South China Sea_

Looking to get away from it all? Mainlanders now can plan a trip to the South China Sea.

After expanding the islands in the middle of the South China Sea and filling them with airstrips, cute female soldiers, veggie gardens and defense installations, China is now working hard on turning the islands into tourist hotspots.





Chinese companies already operate two cruise ships to the Xisha Islands 西沙群岛, they are the Changle Princess, made its maiden voyage last week, joining the Dream of the South China Sea. These tours are comprised of a few days of fun, sun and patriotic activities. Its launch was marked by Chinese media with articles encouraging readers to take in the remarkable views and beautiful scenery that the islands offer. Last year, over 12,000 tourists visited the Xisha Islands, a 48% increase over the year before.





_Female soldiers are relaxing by playing music, Xisha Islands 西沙群岛_

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cochine

samsara said:


> *Hainan wants to add flights to bring more tourists to South China Sea islands*
> 
> Shanghaiist, 2017-03-07
> 
> Hainan delegates at this year's National People's Congress (NPC) in Beijing have released a document stating that *tour flights to the Xisha Islands 西沙群岛 are one of their priorities for this year*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _The dazzling beauty of the Xisha Islands 西沙群岛 in South China Sea_
> 
> Looking to get away from it all? Mainlanders now can plan a trip to the South China Sea.
> 
> After expanding the islands in the middle of the South China Sea and filling them with airstrips, cute female soldiers, veggie gardens and defense installations, China is now working hard on turning the islands into tourist hotspots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chinese companies already operate two cruise ships to the Xisha Islands 西沙群岛, they are the Changle Princess, made its maiden voyage last week, joining the Dream of the South China Sea. These tours are comprised of a few days of fun, sun and patriotic activities. Its launch was marked by Chinese media with articles encouraging readers to take in the remarkable views and beautiful scenery that the islands offer. Last year, over 12,000 tourists visited the Xisha Islands, a 48% increase over the year before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Female soldiers are relaxing by playing music, Xisha Islands 西沙群岛_



*Researchers present evidence of VN’s sovereignty over Paracel*
_VietNamNet Bridge – The country’s leading researchers gathered yesterday (Dec 13) in Thua Thien Hue Province to present old documents issued by the Europeans, which were proof of Viet Nam’s sovereignty over the Paracel (Hoang Sa) archipelago._








_The country’s leading researchers gathered yesterday in Thua Thien Hue Province to present old documents issued by the Europeans, which were proof of Viet Nam’s sovereignty over the Paracel (Hoang Sa) archipelago. — Photo tuoitre.vn_

According to Dr Tran Duc Anh Son, a well-known researcher in the field, French Navy sailor Jean Baptiste Chaigneau wrote in his memoir Le mesmoire sur la Cochinchine that Hoang Sa was an uninhabited island until Emperor Gia Long, first king of the Nguyen Dynasty (1802-1945) declared sovereignty in 1816.

The Journal of an Embassy from the Governor - General of India to the Courts of Siam and Cochinchina by late diplomat John Crawfurd, published in 1830 in London, also includes lines saying that the emperor in 1816 took over Paracel, which was then under no dispute over its sovereignty.





The book Die Erdkunde von Asien by Calt Ritter, published in Berlin in 1834, said the same, adding that neighbouring countries, including China, did not dispute the sovereignty declaration over Paracel by the emperor.

The Nguyen Dynasty’s Dai Nam Thuc Luc (Great South Real Record) in 1816 recorded that the emperor sent a royal marine troop to monitor and undertake measuring work on Hoang Sa. Dai Nam is the former name of Viet Nam.

Son said Viet Nam’s sovereignty over the archipelago has been clear since over 200 years ago.

Prof Nguyen Quang Ngoc, deputy chairman of the Viet Nam Scientific History Association, said royal documents issued by the Nguyen Dynasty presented details of the work and contributions of localities, including Thua Thien-Hue, Quang Ngai and Binh Thuan, for protecting the archipelago, and these also served as evidence of Viet Nam’s sovereignty.

The researchers gathered for a seminar on the issue where they pledged to research more old documents from Japan, South Korea and China related to the archipelago in an attempt to present an accurate picture of the East Sea dispute to citizens around the world.

http://english.vietnamnet.vn/fms/ma...vidence-of-vn-s-sovereignty-over-paracel.html


----------



## terranMarine

Guys see the pattern? @kecho keeps posting outdated news article, the one above is from 14/12/2016
As you can see he's desperate searching for news articles and when no recent ones can be found he just put some old articles here. What a sad mentality

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## cochine

terranMarine said:


> Guys see the pattern? @kecho keeps posting outdated news article, the one above is from 14/12/2016
> As you can see he's desperate searching for news articles and when no recent ones can be found he just put some old articles here. What a sad mentality



The history evidence for sovereignty of Vietnam over Paracel and Spratly ís never old.


----------



## terranMarine

kecho said:


> The history evidence for sovereignty of Vietnam over Paracel and Spratly ís never old, kid.


Yeah we've seen you Viets teaching fake history all the time so ofcourse it's never old  , don't worry China will take good care of you ingrates especially in the future.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## cochine

terranMarine said:


> Yeah we've seen you Viets teaching fake history all the time so ofcourse it's never old  , don't worry China will take good care of you ingrates especially in the future.



stop lying and fabricating ! your ancestor said in china's document that there is JiaoZhi sea (Vietnamese Sea). You, traitor ! can not swallow our Islands there.


----------



## samsara

terranMarine said:


> Guys see the pattern? @kecho keeps posting outdated news article, the one above is from 14/12/2016
> As you can see he's desperate searching for news articles and when no recent ones can be found he just put some old articles here. What a sad mentality


Ha ha ha @kecho is *quite busy digging the used piles* to extract any substance to defend the Viet's fragile claims over the South China Sea. The current realities are too painful for him to swallow, witnessing China is rapidly developing the islands within the South China Sea, and is too BIG and too STRONG for Viet to ever play hanky panky  

Viet indeed must feel lucky that its giant neighbor is not another USA, otherwise Viet will be Saddamized or Gaddafied...

Viet's [long] history??? What an oxymoron!
Viet's history was simply a history of vassal state carried on by a *history of French colonization*! And without the help of China in the past, Viet today will just be another vassal state of the USA. No way for Uncle Ho to beat the Yankees without the back-ups from China and USSR.

No wonder, a petite civilization only has a very short memory...

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cochine

samsara said:


> Ha ha ha @kecho is *quite busy digging the used piles* to extract any substance to defend the Viet's fragile claims over the South China Sea. The current realities are too painful for him to swallow, witnessing China is rapidly developing the islands within the South China Sea, and is too BIG and too STRONG for Viet to ever play hanky panky
> 
> Viet indeed must feel lucky that its giant neighbor is not another USA, otherwise Viet will be Saddamized or Gaddafied...
> 
> Viet's [long] history??? What an oxymoron!
> Viet's history was simply a history of vassal state carried on by a *history of French colonization*! And without the help of China in the past, Viet today will just be another vassal state of the USA. No way for Uncle Ho to beat the Yankees without the back-ups from China and USSR.
> 
> No wonder, a petite civilization only has a very short memory...



Stop lying and fabrication. Paracel and Spratly Islands does belong to Vietnam long time ago in the past, in time of Le Dynasty Vietnam. This islands is under controle of Nguyen Warlord in Vietnam from 1600s, long before invasion of France Colonials.

Vietnam had regained independence with help of Soviet Union and Socialist Countries, not only from help of China. China was betrayal in cold war and allied with USA from 1972...

*The letter you posted did not mentioned about Paracel and Spratly*, *after 1954 this Islands belong to South Vietnam.* North Vietnam and China signed in to Geneva Accord, Chinese has to know about this aggreement. *It said about 12 mile coastline of Mainland China only.* *North Vietnam didn't have right to say about sovereignty of South Vietnam.




*






South and North Vietnam State after 1954, following to Geneva Accord. North Vietnam and China had signed on this aggreement. 

North Korea can not say that Dokdo Island does belong to Japan, because Dokdo Island is under sovereignty of South Korea.


----------



## GS Zhou

kecho said:


> Stop lying and fabrication, kid. Paracel and Spratly Islands does belong to Vietnam long time ago in the past, in time of Le Dynasty Vietnam. This islands is under controle of Nguyen Warlord in Vietnam from 1600s, long before invasion of France Colonials.
> 
> Vietnam had regained independence with help of Soviet Union and Socialist Countries, not only from help of China. China was betrayal in cold war and allied with USA from 1972...
> 
> *The letter you posted did not mentioned about Paracel and Spratly*, *after 1954 this Islands belong to South Vietnam.* North Vietnam and China signed in to Geneva Accord, Chinese has to know about this aggreement. *It said about 12 mile coastline of Mainland China only.* *North Vietnam didn't have right to say about sovereignty of South Vietnam.
> 
> View attachment 382924
> *


I like your debate. 

While you said the vice PM from VCP can not represent the entire Vietnam, good argument. On the other hand, you insist a map drawn by no body, just because it mentions Jiaozhi Sea, it could represent the entire China. 

Good debating skill!!

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cochine

GS Zhou said:


> I like your debate.
> 
> While you said the vice PM from VCP can not represent the entire Vietnam, good argument. On the other hand, you insist a map drawn by no body, just because it mentions Jiaozhi Sea, it could represent the entire China.
> 
> Good debating skill!!



This notice letter of PM North Vietnam (Vietnam Democratic Republik) not VCP (Vietnam Communist Party) to PM China about 12 mile coastline of Mainland China, just the clarification the nature of 12 mile Coast line to North Vietnam.

Jiaozhi Sea it does mean that Vietnam Sea. You can check ancient map printed in China in the past.

Smart and educated Chinese can understand my comment.


----------



## GS Zhou

kecho said:


> This notice letter of PM North Vietnam (Vietnam Democratic Republik) not VCP (Vietnam Communist Party) to PM China about 12 mile coastline of Mainland China, just the clarification the nature of 12 mile Coast line to North Vietnam.
> 
> Jiaozhi Sea it does mean that Vietnam Sea. You can check ancient map printed in China in the past.
> 
> Smart and educated Chinese can understand my comment.


The name of the water/region doesn't mean anything about its ownership. Japan Sea, Indian Ocean, China Lake (in US), Queensland (in Australia), but so what? A large part of Japan even called as 中国, so?







Thái Nguyên (太原) is part of Vietnam. But 太原 is also name of the capital city of China's Shanxi Province. Shall I thereof claim Thái Nguyên belongs to Shanxi Province? Never! Thái Nguyên is always a part of Vietnam that I won't have doubt at all.

Đông Kinh (东京) is the ancient name of Hanoi. Meanwhile 东京 is also the ancient name of China's Kaifeng (in Henan Province); 东京 is still the name of Japan's capital city. Does it mean Đông Kinh/Hanoi belongs to China or Japan? Or Kaifeng, Tokyo belongs to Vietnam?



kecho said:


> This notice letter of PM North Vietnam (Vietnam Democratic Republik) not VCP (Vietnam Communist Party) to PM


the letter from is from Phạm Văn Đồng, one of the top leaders of VCP, who is still the ruling party of Vietnam today.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## cochine

GS Zhou said:


> The name of the water/region doesn't mean anything about its ownership. Japan Sea, Indian Ocean, China Lake (in US), Queensland (in Australia), but so what? A large part of Japan even called as 中国, so?
> View attachment 382926
> 
> 
> 
> Thái Nguyên (太原) is part of Vietnam. But 太原 is also name of the capital city of China's Shanxi Province. Shall I thereof claim Thái Nguyên belongs to Shanxi Province? Never! Thái Nguyên is always a part of Vietnam that I won't have doubt at all.
> 
> Đông Kinh (东京) is the ancient name of Hanoi. Meanwhile 东京 is also the ancient name of China's Kaifeng (in Henan Province); 东京 is still the name of Japan's capital city. Does it mean Đông Kinh/Hanoi belongs to China or Japan? Or Kaifeng, Tokyo belongs to Vietnam?
> 
> 
> the letter from is from Phạm Văn Đồng, one of the top leaders of VCP, who is still the ruling party of Vietnam today.



Jiaozhi sea is only one in this sea area in south east Asia.

Problem here is that the letter of PM Pham Van Dong didn't said about Paracel and Spratly.

What do you think about that. Mr. Lee Deng Hui, President of Taiwan said that Senkaku is Japan's Island ?

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/aug/6/inside-china-lee-teng-hui-taiwans-former-president/


----------



## GS Zhou

kecho said:


> What do you think about that. Mr. Lee Deng Hui, President of Taiwan said that Senkaku is Japan's Island ?


So what? That's Lee's personal opinion, part of his right of freedom of speech. I have no interest to comment.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cochine

GS Zhou said:


> So what? That's Lee's personal opinion, part of his right of freedom of speech. I have no interest to comment.



Letter of PM Phạm Văn Đồng didn't mentioned the name of Spratly ánd Paracel in his statement. In the time 1958, this Island belong to South Vietnam State.

Pls don't twisted the matter here.

China map Atlas printed in Mainland China stated that Senkaku island in China's PRC map, under leading of China Communist Party.


----------



## The Eagle

Members are advised to continue your discussion/debate without personal attacks or name calling etc. 

Thanks

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## The Eagle

GS Zhou said:


> Thanks



Every member is at liberty to continue the discussion until & unless it is not in violation of Forum Rules. Also, as always advised, report such offensive posts without quoting/engaging back so Mods will handle the same.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## samsara

kecho said:


> Stop lying and fabrication, kid. Paracel and Spratly Islands does belong to Vietnam long time ago in the past, in time of Le Dynasty Vietnam. This islands is under controle of Nguyen Warlord in Vietnam from 1600s, long before invasion of France Colonials.
> 
> Vietnam had regained independence with help of Soviet Union and Socialist Countries, not only from help of China. China was betrayal in cold war and allied with USA from 1972...
> 
> *The letter you posted did not mentioned about Paracel and Spratly*, *after 1954 this Islands belong to South Vietnam.* North Vietnam and China signed in to Geneva Accord, Chinese has to know about this aggreement. *It said about 12 mile coastline of Mainland China only.* *North Vietnam didn't have right to say about sovereignty of South Vietnam.
> 
> View attachment 382924
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *South and North Vietnam State after 1954, following to Geneva Accord. North Vietnam and China had signed on this aggreement.
> 
> North Korea can not say that Dokdo Island does belong to Japan, because Dokdo Island is under sovereignty of South Korea.*



That's a very wrong comparison. North Vietnam was the winner of the civil war between the South and North Vietnam, therefore it's North Vietnam that represents the united Vietnam at the end of the civil war, the ruling party is also the same. The South Vietnam was buried into the graveyard already. The fact that the Vietnam is *playing with words* to deny the letter of its late top and long serving leader, Pham Van Dong, *showing the cunning characteristics* and *lack of trustworthiness* of its political and leadership class. When the officially written words of a nation's leader is no longer trustworthy then the whole nation lost its honor... and should be treated as such accordingly!

The aggressor is playing out as victim today. Luckily China is way much bigger and stronger; otherwise it's easily to imagine Vietnam may storm China as it did against its smaller and weaker neighbor, Cambodia (Khmer). And fortunately it is not the China that relies its fresh water needs (sources of rivers) on Vietnam but the reverse is true; otherwise the Chinese people may have to resort to sea waters for living (the costly desalination).

North Korea - South Korea -- they are indeed two separated entities, two sovereign states! It's completely irrelevant. [Unless you think that the South Vietnam still exists.]

Btw, please *do not kid* others. It doesn't make your argument more sound by belittling others. Fortunately the mod already noticed this.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cochine

samsara said:


> That's a very wrong comparison. North Vietnam was the winner of the civil war between the South and North Vietnam, therefore it's North Vietnam that represents the united Vietnam at the end of the civil war, the ruling party is also the same. The South Vietnam was buried into the graveyard already. The fact that the Vietnam is *playing with words* to deny the letter of its late top and long serving leader, Pham Van Dong, *showing the cunning characteristics* and *lack of trustworthiness* of its political and leadership class. When the officially written words of a nation's leader is no longer trustworthy then the whole nation lost its honor... and should be treated as such accordingly!
> 
> The aggressor is playing out as victim today. Luckily China is way much bigger and stronger; otherwise it's easily to imagine Vietnam may storm China as it did against its smaller and weaker neighbor, Cambodia (Khmer). And fortunately it is not the China that relies its fresh water needs (sources of rivers) on Vietnam but the reverse is true; otherwise the Chinese people may have to resort to sea waters for living (the costly desalination).
> 
> North Korea - South Korea -- they are indeed two separated entities, two sovereign states! It's completely irrelevant. [Unless you think that the South Vietnam still exists.]
> 
> Btw, please *do not kid* others. It doesn't make your argument more sound by belittling others. Fortunately the mod already noticed this.



stop lying more, bro. Check again the letter 1958 of PM of North Vietnam (Vietnam Democratic Republic). It did not mentioned about Spratly and Paracel Islands of South Vietnam (Republic Vietnam) in the time 1958, it said about coast line 12 mile related to North VN and China only.

Its nature of the letter, no more.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## terranMarine

China's southern island province of Hainan will run regular cruises to the Nansha Islands in the South China Seaby 2020, according to a local government paper on tourism.

Hainan will improve the travel experience with new routes and ships, improve infrastructure and provide better travel packages.

Sansha City, on Yongxing, one of the Xisha Islands, was founded in July 2012. The city sees tourism as its main economic engine and administers three island groups -- the Xisha, Zhongsha and Nansha -- along with surrounding waters.

The first cruise to the Xisha Islands was in 2013, with two cruise since making the trip more than 100 times, carrying over 20,000 tourists.

Hainan is upgrading its ports and has plans for a pan-South China Sea cruise line covering countries along the Maritime Silk Road.

http://en.people.cn/n3/2017/0311/c90000-9188854.html

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## shjliu

Sully3 said:


> China should make islands on the Arabian and Indian ocean as well to protect its interests in the region
> 
> would love a squadron of j20 bombers on a island near indian shores


why?


----------



## cochine

*Navy’s latest frigate to be deployed for annual exhibit in Malaysia*

March 11, 2017 PNA Nation 0

ShareTweet


In line with efforts to foster closer defense ties with its Southeast Asian neighbors, the Philippine Navy (PN) will deploy its newly acquired Gregorio del Pilar-class frigate BRP Andres Bonifacio (FF-17), to the Langkawi International Maritime and Aerospace Exhibition (LIMA 2017) in Malaysia.

LIMA, one of the most influential exhibitions in Asia, is a dedicated maritime and aerospace exhibition for defense, civil and commercial aviation, shipbuilding and ship repair. The event will start on March 21 and end on the 25th, Navy spokesperson Lued Lincuna said in a message to the Philippine News Agency (PNA) Saturday.

In line with this, he said the Navy will have a send-off ceremony for BRP Andres Bonifacio and the 206 naval personnel on board at Pier 13, Manila South Harbor on Tuesday. Lincuna said Navy flag-officer-in-command Vice Adm. Ronald Joseph Mercado will lead the ceremony.

Aside from participating in LIMA 2017, the Filipino warship and her crew will conduct port visits to Lumut and Port Klang, Malaysia.

Gregorio del Pilar-class frigates were formerly used by the US Coast Guard as Hamilton class high endurance cutters.

The BRP Andres Bonifacio was formally welcomed into the Philippine fleet last December 9. The ship is armed with a 76-mm. Oto Melara automatic cannon, like her sister ships, BRP Ramon Alcaraz (FF-16) and BRP Gregorio Del Pilar.
http://www.update.ph/2017/03/navys-...deployed-for-annual-exhibit-in-malaysia/15627


----------



## samsara

Sully3 said:


> China should make islands on the Arabian and Indian ocean as well to protect its interests in the region
> 
> would love a squadron of j20 bombers on a island near indian shores


Just do not see such relevance at all. China is not an imperialistic nation, there is no such necessity to build the many costly permanent military outposts overseas to project such military forces, after all China is an industrial and trading nation relying on manufacturing and commercial relationships. The service availability to cater the PLA Navy fleet at *Djibouti and Pakistan* are adequate to serve China's interests to protect its maritime trade through the Arabian Sea and Indian Ocean IMO.




What China needs to do is *building up more aircraft carrier fleets*, which she's doing right now. See _this latest post_ in other thread about aircraft carrier.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cochine

*Gac Ma soldiers’ memorial site to open in March*

China attacked on Vietnam's sea at South Johson Reef 14 Marc 1988. 64 VPA logistic men were killed by Chinese.








Last update: 14:38 | 19/01/2017
http://m.english.vietnamnet.vn/fms/...soldiers--memorial-site-to-open-in-march.html

_The first-phase construction of a memorial site dedicated to 64 navy soldiers who laid down their lives while protecting Gac Ma island in Vietnam’s Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelago on March 14, 1988, is scheduled for completion in March._

_



_


_The main statue at the Gac Ma memorial site
_


On January 18, a delegation from the Vietnam General Confederation of Labour (VGCL) visited the construction site to examine the work progress and the major statue.

The statue depicts the image of the soldiers holding each other’s hands to form a circle that symbolises their immortal fight for the country’s sovereignty.

The examiners said the statue meets the set criteria in terms of art and materials, but need a few changes to make it more soulful.

The Gac Ma memorial site spans on an area of 2.5 hectares with construction beginning in March 2015. The building cost is sourced from donations by trade unions and employees nationwide to the VGCL’s “Love for Hoang Sa-Truong Sa” programme initiated in March 2014.

_VNA_

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Get Ya Wig Split

*China begins new work on disputed South China Sea island*

China has started fresh construction work in the disputed South China Sea, new satellite images show, a sign that Beijing is continuing to strengthen its military reach across the vital trade waterway.

Regional military attaches and experts believe the work shows China's determination to build up its network of reefs and islets, even if it is seeking to avoid a fresh confrontation with the new administration of U.S. President Donald Trump.

An image of North Island in the Paracels group taken on March 6 shows recent work including land clearing and possible preparation for a harbor to support what experts believe may be eventual military installations. Initial work was damaged in a typhoon last year.

The pictures, provided by private satellite firm Planet Labs, follow reports in January showing work undertaken on nearby Tree Island and other features in the Paracels, which are also claimed by Vietnam and Taiwan.

Diplomats briefed on latest Western intelligence assessments say Beijing is pursuing efforts to dominate its maritime 'backyard', even if it tweaks the timing of moves to avoid being overtly provocative.

"The Paracels are going to be vital to any future Chinese attempt to dominate the South China Sea," said Carl Thayer, a South China Sea expert at Australia's Defence Force Academy.

"We can see they are committed to militarization, whatever the official rhetoric tells us, even if they are going to do it bit by bit."

*Uncertainties over Trump
*
The more widely disputed Spratlys archipelago to the south are higher profile but the Paracels are key to China's presence in the South China Sea,

China has in recent years temporarily based surface-to-air missile launchers and crack jet fighters at long established bases on Woody Island on the Paracels, helping protect its nuclear submarine facilities on Hainan Island.

North Island is part of an arc of reefs that are expected to form a protective screen for Woody, which includes civilian facilities and a listening post.

Zhang Baohui, a mainland security expert at Hong Kong's Lingnan University, said he believed China was pursuing long-held goals of strengthening its facilities in the Paracels, and had calculated the Trump administration would not over-react given other pressing priorities.

"There's also uncertainty with this young Trump administration, but this is very important work to the Chinese--the Paracels are vital to defending Hainan, which is in turn important to China's nuclear deterrent," he said.

"The calculation here is that it is really only Vietnam that will be rattled by this."

The Vietnamese Foreign Ministry did not immediately respond to requests for comment.

China's Defence Ministry said it was "not familiar" with any work at North Island.

"What needs to be stressed is that the Xisha Islands are China's inherent territory," it said, using the Chinese name for the Paracels. China fully occupied the Paracels in 1974 after forcing the navy of the-then South Vietnam off its holdings.

News of fresh Chinese activity comes as Rex Tillerson prepares for his first visit to the region as U.S. Secretary of State later this week. Tillerson sparked alarm in Beijing when he said in January China should not be allowed access to islands it has built in the South China Sea.

A U.S. official, speaking on the condition of anonymity, was unable to confirm new construction work on North Island but said it would not be surprising.

"It would be in line with what they have been doing, why else would they clearing land on the islands but for militarization," the official said. "There is no other reason to have a presence there."

Diplomatic sources in Beijing say China is not looking for confrontation with the United States over the South China Sea, pointing to China's low-key reaction to last month's patrol of a U.S. aircraft carrier strike group in the waters there.

China has recently sought to portray itself as being conciliatory over the disputed waterway, saying it and Southeast Asian nations are committed to a peaceful resolution.

Last week, Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi said a draft code of conduct for behavior in the South China Sea had now been completed and that tensions had "distinctly dropped".

Reuters/CNBC

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cochine

*JAPAN DEPLOYING LARGEST WARSHIP TO SOUTH CHINA SEA*
Posted on March 14, 2017






Share on FacebookTweet on Twitter


Japan plans to dispatch its largest warship in South China Sea beginning in May.

According to source, Izumo helicopter carrier, commissioned only two years ago, will make stops in Singapore, Indonesia, the Philippines and Sri Lanka before joining the Malabar joint naval exercise with Indian and U.S. naval vessels in the Indian Ocean in July.

It will return to Japan in August, the sources said.

“The aim is to test the capability of the Izumo by sending it out on an extended mission,” said one of the sources who have knowledge of the plan. “It will train with the U.S. Navy in the South China Sea,” he added, asking not to be identified because he is not authorized to talk to the media.

A spokesman for Japan’s Maritime Self Defense Force declined to comment.

Japan does not have any claim to the waters, but has a separate maritime dispute with China in the East China Sea.

http://tankler.com/japahviun-deploying-largest-warship-to-south-china-sea-13374


----------



## samsara

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/842213685040828416*China is to build an environment monitoring station in Huangyan Dao 黄岩岛 ("Scarborough Reef") according to Sansha City Party Committee Secretary Xiao Jie - 2017-03-14.*










More info (in CN): http://www.guancha.cn/local/2017_03_14_398710.shtml




The magnificent signature picture of Huangyan Island 黄岩岛 in the South China Sea​

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## JSCh

Thursday, March 16, 2017, 11:09
* South China Sea tsunami alert center expected to go on trial in 2017*
By Xinhua

BEIJING - China's tsunami warning center in the South China Sea is expected to start trial operations this year, according a UNESCO body.

The work team of the South China Sea region with the Intergovernmental Coordination Group of the Pacific Tsunami Warning and Mitigation System (ICG/PTWS), a body of the UNESCO'S Intergovernmental Oceanographic Commission, has held a meeting in Shanghai to discuss tsunami alerts in the region.

The meeting suggested the 27th ICG/PTWS session scheduled for this year should approve testing of the center before the end of the year.

The meeting also called for collaboration between the new warning center and another two in Pacific ocean.

"Issuing tsunami alerts to the international community is an important move for China to boost regional marine cooperation and participate in global ocean governance," said Yu Fujiang with the National Marine Environmental Forecasting Center.

The meeting also called for improving data sharing by establishing a monitoring network for earthquakes and tsunamis in the South China Sea region.

The meeting was attended by representatives with the UNESCO Intergovernmental Oceanographic Commission, the US National Weather Service and the Japan Meteorological Agency.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## cochine

*DUTERTE OK TO VISIT LARGEST WARSHIP OF JAPAN WHEN IT ARRIVES IN SUBIC*
Posted on March 14, 2017





Share on FacebookTweet on Twitter


President Rodrigo Duterte on Monday said he is open to visit in May the helicopter carrier ‘Izumo’, the largest Japanese warship.

A source has told Reuters that Japan wants to invite Duterte – who has pushed ties with China in recent months – to visit the warship when it arrives in Subic Bay, located about 100km (62 miles) west of Manila. But a spokesman for Japan’s Maritime Self Defense Force (JMSDF) declined to comment on the report.

Duterte said he would visit the warship “if I have the time.”

The report said Japan plans to dispatch its largest warship on a three-month tour through the South China Sea beginning in May, in its biggest show of naval force in the region since World War Two.

Plans to dispatch the ‘Izumo’ to the South China Sea is likely to anger Beijing, which lays claim to almost all of the resource-rich waters – despite competing claims from Vietnam, the Philippines Taiwan, Malaysia and Brunei.
http://tankler.com/duterte-ok-to-hiuviu-largest-warship-of-japan-when-it-arrives-in-subic-13384


----------



## samsara

OPINION
*China must draw red line for Japan's activities in South China Sea*

Source: China Military Editor: Zhang Tao - 2017-03-15

"Japan's largest warship will "patrol" the South China Sea," Reuters reported in its exclusive news on March 13. The news was confirmed by CNN on March 14, which cited an American source.

However, domestic military expert said that from a military perspective, Japan's Izumo helicopter carrier will post limited military threat in the South China Sea without air and naval support, but Japan's attempt to step up its military presence in that region on the pretext of dispatching the Izumo to participate in exercises via the South China Sea is *unacceptable*.

China should draw a red line for Japan's activities in the South China Sea, the expert added. CNN reported March 14 that a Pentagon official told it Monday that as part of the "Malabar" annual joint exercise, Japan's largest military vessel Izumo will have joint training with American and Indian naval ships in the coming summer.

According to CNN, " the Malabar military exercises have taken place on a rotational basis in the West Pacific and Indian oceans since Japan became a regular participant in 2007, and to get to the Indian Ocean, *the shortest route* will take the Izumo through the contested South China Sea".

Based on foreign media coverage, Izumo's destination this time is the Malabar Sea. It won't be the first time that the Japan Self-defense Forces passes through the South China Sea, but its duration of stay in the South China Sea will be longer than before, the expert expressed.

He also briefed that this may become the main model of Japan's voyage in the region in the future, namely "*dragging its feet*" on the excuse of passing. It may even hold some exercises to detect Chinese naval vessels and enhance its military presence in the South China Sea, attempting to force China to accept that as a fact. However, the expert said that *China doesn't need to care too much about the normal voyage of Japanese vessels.* By contrast, China only need to step up tracking and monitoring, but if they do anything unusual, China should strike back hard.

*Another important purpose of Izumo is using its helicopters for anti-submarine operations. When it passes through the South China Sea, China should closely monitor its possible anti-submarine training and prevent it from threatening the PLA Navy submarines, added the expert.*

CNN also claimed that the addition of the Izumo to the already large-scale exercise underscores that "Japan's anti-submarine warfare capabilities are key to attempting to deter Chinese expansion in the region".

But one Izumo isn't enough to make big waves, the expert stressed. As a helicopter carrier, Izumo has limited firepower, a deep draft and not so agile movement, so it isn't likely to enter the 12 nautical miles of Chinese islands and reefs without permission.

While, Izumo may not enter the South China Sea by itself this time. Since the vessels participating in the exercise will stay a long time in the region, it's possible that Japan and US will challenge China together.

*"China must be fully prepared to fight back and draw a clear red line for Japan's activities in the South China Sea", the expert emphasized.

http://eng.chinamil.com.cn/view/2017-03/15/content_7527811.htm*


_*Disclaimer:* The information, ideas or opinions appearing in this article are those of the author from the Global Times and do not reflect the views of eng.chinamil.com.cn. Chinamil.com.cn does not assume any responsibility or liability for the same. If the article carries photographs or images, we do not vouch for their authenticity._

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## terranMarine

Guys @kecho is now posting a news article from 21 oct 2015

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## cochine

terranMarine said:


> Guys @kecho is now posting a news article from 21 oct 2015



Íts valid up to now, bro.

ỏr thís is news for you.

*US to finance construction of PNP Maritime Command Center*

March 16, 2017 PNA Nation 0

ShareTweet


The United States government agreed to extend the grant worth USD 1 million for the establishment of a Maritime Command Center, which will be run by the Philippine National Police (PNP), to combat piracy and terrorism in this city. The pledge to extend the grant was made during the visit of U.S. Ambassador Sung Y. Kim in this city on Thursday.

Mayor Maria Isabelle Climaco-Salazar told the Philippines News Agency that the U.S. ambassador agreed to the extension period of the grant, since the PNP has yet to settle the land title of the area where the command center will be constructed.

The period of the grant, which was pledged last year, will expire this year.

The city government said they are eyeing for the construction of the Maritime Command Center to begin within the year.

The center will be located in Barangay Bolong, a coastal village located 32.60 kilometers east of city hall.

The Maritime Command Center aims to beef up security measures to curb the presence of terrorists, smugglers, pirates, and other criminal groups in the area.

“The city of Zamboanga expressed its gratitude to the U.S. government for its continued support to the city,” Salazar said after their closed-door meeting with the U.S. ambassador.

She said this city has been getting technical as well as financial support from the U.S. government through its development arm, the United States Agency for International Development (USAID), especially after the 21-day September 2013 siege.

Among the U.S. interventions in this city are the Water Security for Resilient Economic Growth and Stability (Be Secure) project; skills training for out-of-school youth under the Mindanao Youth for Development, wildlife trafficking assistance, and improving the city government’s operations in centralizing and streamlining business permit processing.

“We have a very big support from the U.S. government through the USAID,” Salazar said.

The U.S. ambassador, who declined to be interviewed by the media, also went to visit Camp Navarro to talk with U.S. troops and top Filipino military officials there.

Camp Navarro houses the Western Mindanao Command (Westmincom) headquarters in this city.

The U.S. government has maintained a small contingent with around 100 soldiers in this city to help the Philippine military in anti-terrorist operations by way of providing intelligence, monitoring capabilities, and technical training.

The U.S. facility inside Camp Navarro used to be the base of the defunct Joint Special Operations Task Force-Philippines (JSOTFP).

The presence of the U.S. troops here began at the height of the global war on terror in 2001 under the “Balikatan” military exercise program.


----------



## samsara

terranMarine said:


> Guys @kecho is now posting a news article from 21 oct 2015



@kecho must be in desperate mode to push forward his narration lines 

Just in case any one has missed earlier this authoritative position outlined by the govt of China 

CHINA'S WHITE PAPER BRIEF INTRO

*Vice Foreign Minister Liu Zhenmin at the Press Conference on the White Paper Titled China Adheres to the Position of Settling Through Negotiation the Relevant Disputes Between China and the Philippines in the South China Sea*

2016/07/13

*On 13 July 2016, the State Council Information Office (SCIO) held a press conference on the white paper* titled *China Adheres to the Position of Settling Through Negotiation the Relevant Disputes Between China and the Philippines in the South China Sea* hosted by Vice Minister and Spokesperson of SCIO Guo Weimin. *Vice Foreign Minister Liu Zhenmin attended the press conference, briefed the audience on the white paper and took questions from the press.*

The first part is that Nanhai Zhudao are China's inherent territory. The activities of the Chinese people in the South China Sea date back to over 2,000 years ago. China is the first to have discovered and named, and explored and exploited Nanhai Zhudao and the South China Sea, and the first to have continuously, peacefully and effectively exercised sovereignty and jurisdiction over Nanhai Zhudao. China's sovereignty over Nanhai Zhudao and the relevant rights and interests in the South China Sea have been established in the long course of history.​
During its war of aggression against China, Japan invaded and illegally occupied Nanhai Zhudao. After the end of World War II, the Cairo Declaration and the Potsdam Proclamation as well as a series of post-war international documents stipulated that all territories Japan had stolen should be returned to China. Accordingly, after World War II, China recovered Taiwan, Penghu Islands, Xisha Qundao and Nansha Qundao which belong to China in the first place. After the resumption of the exercise of sovereignty over Nanhai Zhudao, China drew up the relevant map with the dotted line, and published the map to the world in 1948. So the dotted line has been there since 1948.

Since its founding, the People's Republic of China has further upheld its sovereignty over Nanhai Zhudao and the relevant rights and interests in the South China Sea. China has never stopped patrolling Nanhai Zhudao and relevant waters as well as law enforcement, resource development and scientific survey activities there. Nanhai Zhudao have been widely recognized as a part of China's territory by the international community after World War II, which constitutes an integral part of post-war territorial arrangement and international order. Encyclopedias, yearbooks and maps published in many countries after the war all mark the Nansha Qundao as Chinese territory.​
This authoritative press conference was attended by the familiar names at which they also threw in questions: Reuters; BBC; CNN in addition to those heavyweights within the Chinese media ecosystem.

*READ THE FULL ARTICLE AT:* http://www.fmprc.gov.cn/mfa_eng/wjbxw/t1381980.shtml


Note: The term *Nanhai Zhudao 南海诸岛* refers to _the entire islands/islets/atolls in the South China Sea under China's sovereignty._

​

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## TaiShang

terranMarine said:


> Guys @kecho is now posting a news article from 21 oct 2015



At least he takes out the date from the article before submitting to fool people.

At least he tries.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cochine

*Trump’s World and the South China Sea*
How the president responds to China’s provocations could prove decisive for the region.

By Tetsuo Kotani
January 25, 2017





Donald J. Trump is now president of the United States, one known for his “America First” position. What impact might that have on disputes in the South China Sea?

On December 4, 2016, the president-elect tweeted, in reference to China’s construction of artificial islands for military purposes in the South China Sea, “Did China ask for our permission?” Still, it is premature to conclude that Trump will really take a harder line on China than the Obama administration has over the South China Sea issue. The tweet may simply have been Trump firing back at China for criticizing his telephone conversation with Taiwanese President Tsai Ing-wen two days earlier. Also, China’s seizure of a U.S. Navy’s underwater drone in the South China Sea later that month was not a sufficient test of Trump’s South China Policy, although he criticized the incident on Twitter.

From the very beginning of his presidential campaign, Trump has viewed China not through a national security lens, but primarily as an economic competitor and as a challenge. He sees China as a currency manipulator that is taking jobs and wealth away from Americans through an increasing trade deficit. He also accuses China of stealing industrial secrets through cyberattacks and thinks that if the U.S. eliminates the trade deficit with China and applies economic pressure, China will stop reclaiming reefs in the South China Sea.

*Enjoying this article?* Click here to subscribe for full access. Just $5 a month.
Yet Trump simultaneously does not appear to be a believer in the Thucydides trap (which posits that confrontation between an emerging power and an existing power is inevitable). He has said that he would aim for peaceful coexistence with China and seek to build relations based on common interests. This is not incompatible with the “new type of major country relations” which China has been calling for under President Xi Jinping.

The top foreign policy priority for the Trump administration will be containing Islamic extremists such as the Islamic State. Trump has said he will significantly expand U.S. military power, increasing the Army’s numbers from 490,000 to 540,000, fighter jets from 1,113 to at least 1,200, Marines from 23 battalions to 36 battalions, and surface vessels and submarines in the U.S. Navy from 276 to 350.

It is not yet clear what policy the Trump administration will take with respect to the South China Sea and what role this expanded military force will play in the region. The Chinese leadership is perhaps the most keen to know. China has a history of testing the crisis response capabilities of incoming U.S. administrations. In April 2001, soon after the inauguration of the administration of George W. Bush, a Chinese fighter jet collided with a U.S. EP-3 reconnaissance airplane over international waters off Hainan Island, which severely strained relations. At that time, China demanded an apology from the United States and succeeded in drawing an expression of regret from the Bush administration. In March 2009, soon after Barack Obama had taken over the presidency, Chinese warships, government-owned vessels and fishing vessels obstructed the navigation of USNS _Impeccable_, an ocean surveillance ship, in the South China Sea. The Obama administration responded by dispatching the guided missile destroyed USS _Chung-Hoon_ to protect the _Impeccable_.

So it would not be at all surprising if China were to try some kind of provocation once Donald Trump takes office. Since China saw its claims to the South China Sea voted down by the International Court of Arbitration based on the U.N. Convention of the Law of the Sea, Beijing has ostensibly been refraining from provocative acts. But it has continued to build facilities on the artificial islands it has created.

Rather than the South China Sea, China could test the Trump administration and the strength of the U.S.-Japan alliance in the East China Sea. This would no doubt please Philippines President Rodrigo Duterte, who has been keen to make overtures to China. Alternatively, Beijing may target Taiwan, to punish Tsai for her phone call with Trump in addition to the recent demonstration deployment of its aircraft carrier in the South China Sea.

The Trump administration could avoid a major rupture in U.S.-Sino relations by responding rationally to any provocation, while emphasizing freedom of navigation and the peaceful resolution of conflicts. It could also go too far in its response, and put itself on the path to confrontation. Or perhaps it will tacitly condone China’s domination of the South China Sea in exchange for the elimination of the trade deficit, placing the emphasis on the peaceful coexistence of the two countries.

Whichever path it takes, Trump’s response to the likely Chinese provocations will become a major factor in determining the future of the South China Sea.

_Tetsuo Kotani is Senior Fellow at The Japan Institute of International Affairs._


----------



## samsara

*China urges Japan not to stir up troubles on South China Sea issue*

Source: Xinhua | 2017-03-16 19:54:06 | Editor: huaxia





_Foreign Ministry spokesperson *Hua Chunying* (Photo source: fmprc.gov.cn)_​
BEIJING, March 16 (Xinhua) -- A Foreign Ministry spokesperson on Thursday urged Japan to respect related countries' efforts to maintain peace and stability on the South China Sea, and to refrain from causing trouble in the region.

At a routine press briefing, spokesperson Hua Chunying was asked to comment on reports that Japan's lzumo warship will go to the South China Sea for drills.

The South China Sea issue has improved since last year thanks to the efforts of China and ASEAN countries, Hua said, adding that some non-regional countries should respect measures by regional countries to maintain peace and stability on the South China Sea.

Hua said Japan was focused on its own interests and had inflamed the issue recently, much to the dissatisfaction of the Chinese people.

*If the Japanese side still refuses to realize its error and play up regional tensions, China will definitely respond to any action that harm China's sovereignty and security, Hua said.*

*Japan is not a party to the South China Sea issue and Japan had invaded and occupied China's Xisha Islands and Nansha Islands in the past, Hua said, urging Japan to remember history and mind its words and steps.*

Hua added that Japan should not do any harm to the regional peace and stability any longer.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2017-03/16/c_136134407.htm

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cochine

*AUSTRALIA HITS MILITARY STRUCTURES IN SOUTH CHINA SEA*
Posted on March 17, 2017





Share on FacebookTweet on Twitter


Australian Foreign Minister Julie Bishop on Thursday hit on China’s militarisation of man-made islands in the South China Sea saying the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) should use ruling as basis for ‘code of conduct.’

Speaking at a forum of the ADR Institute for Strategic and International Studies in Manila, Bishop said Australia did not take sides in the South China Sea disputes, but it wanted to see “de-escalation of tension”, reiterating its opposition to China’s militarisation of man-made islands in the waters.

“Australia opposes the scale of reclamation and reconstruction that has occurred and certainly we do not support militarisation by any party of the islands and the other features in the South China Sea because it would raise tensions, it would raise the prospect of conflict,” Bishop said.

“We should all advocate for its preservation and be prepared to defend it, even fight for it, should that be necessary,” she added.

She suggested that the 12 July verdict by the Permanent Court of Arbitration could be taken as the basis for the set of rules that are to be followed by the warring parties to avoid conflict in the international waterway.

The tribunal rejected China’s sweeping claims in the disputed water and ruled in favour of the Philippines, which brought the case to The Hague. It ruled that Beijing had no legal basis and that it violated the rights of Filipino fishermen at Scarborough Shoal.
http://tankler.com/australia-hits-on-scxss-structures-in-south-china-seadcxcxczcx-13472


----------



## samsara

*Australia’s pragmatic South China Sea policy best for our region*

BOB CARR
The Australian - March 18, 2017

It’s a reasonable bet Australians would be more comfortable with a democratic China; that is, a China boasting competing political parties in an elected legislature, buttressed by robust freedom of expression.

Foreign Minister Julie Bishop’s remarks in Singapore on Monday (3/13) on the value of democracy, aimed at China, are the kind of thing that may be laid down for the record — once in a while — before resuming normal diplomacy. *A country with thousands of years of cultural continuity won’t change its political system because of lectures by Westerners.* US Democrat Nancy Pelosi spoke in the early 1990s of China introducing freedom of expression under American pressure. Henry Kissinger commented wryly on this naive notion that pressure from the US congress could produce “freedom of speech and the press, which has never existed in five millennia”.

China is undergoing a demanding economic transition to lift 850 million more people into the middle class by 2030. It is bold and risky. China’s leaders are unlikely to choose this moment to surrender their authority. China will liberalise if its middle class begins to expect it, as in Singapore or South Korea, or a reformist leader sponsors it, as in Taiwan or Myanmar.

Right now the West has chosen to deal with China as it is, pragmatically drawing it into global governance. Australia, too, is running a pragmatic China policy. The most striking proof is the South China Sea.

To the disappointment of Australia’s hawks, it is plain as a pikestaff that Australia will not be running US-style patrols there. Last month Bishop met US Secretary of State Rex Tillerson. According to The Australian Financial Review, she told him: “_Australia will not change its past behaviour in the South China Sea and not escalate tensions with Beijing._”

Despite speculation on two occasions, Australia has not attempted to recruit Indonesia for patrols. Bishop categorically ruled this out in Jakarta on March 6. Note the significance of this. As with our decision to join the China-sponsored Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank, Australia is saying no to US attempts to enlist us to an anti-Chinese posture. Perhaps the lecture on democracy provides cover.

Yet 18 months ago it had looked almost inevitable that Australia would be recruited to challenge China’s island-building. Three US admirals — their brass glinting and medals tinkling — had dropped strong hints.

As recently as last December, Admiral Harry B. Harris urged Australia to run its own freedom-of-navigation operations.

For Canberra, the proposition was problematic on two grounds.

First, no other American friend, partner or ally — not India, Japan or any European nation — had the remotest interest in jamming its navies into the 12-nautical mile radius around China’s claimed territory. We would be the only one, typecast as a gallant and gullible ally. Second, Canberra had to consider the views of Southeast Asian countries, on whose behalf we would be challenging China.

And they were all dealing with China. According to Chinese sources, Philippines President Rodrigo Duterte went to Beijing on October 19 to seek an alliance with China, despite China’s non-alignment policy. China has been astute enough to allow Philippines fishing vessels access to waters around Scarborough Shoal, which lies within The Philippines’ exclusive economic zone.

Just as striking, *Vietnam* also has decided to seek a diplomatic accommodation with China over maritime territorial disputes. Following the visit to Beijing in January by *Nguyen Phu Trong, General Secretary of the Vietnamese Communist Party*, both countries issued a joint communique pledging to “manage well their maritime difference”.

Against this background the Canberra orthodoxy was captured by Angus Houston, former Australian Defence Force chief, in a speech last month. He came down against the notion of freedom-of-navigation operations, arguing they “_could provoke a response, a military response_”, and added: “I think it’s all about diplomacy in the first instance.”

His views were endorsed by Defence Minister Marise Payne as a “constructive contribution”. A top military man says it would be foolish to run these patrols and the Defence Minister endorses his comments: cue heartfelt lamentations among Australian Cold Warriors, tears of frustration in the staff cafeteria at the Australian Strategic Policy Institute.

Australian diplomacy should be directed at leading the Trump administration to pragmatic engagement with China and urging China to freeze militarisation of its artificial islands — doing so with the extra clout we enjoy because the Chinese know we have so far declined patrols with the US but could always change our minds.

For its part, China is handling the Trump administration with restraint, as a survey of its media responses to Donald Trump confirms. This survey, conducted by the Australia-China Relations Institute, shows Chinese official opinion is eager for dialogue with the Americans. Presidents Trump and Xi Jinping are scheduled to talk at Mar-a-Lago in Florida next month.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/inquirer/australias-pragmatic-south-china-sea-policy-best-for-our-region/news-story/f1991e69f3b4e1b35ca14c05ea99fd71?nk=5efc650c66ee6a628db22ff24d8ac255-1489841927

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cochine

*Turbulence in South China Sea: India Offers Missile to Vietnam*
© AFP 2017/ JUNG YEON-JE
ASIA & PACIFIC
20:00 09.01.2017Get short URL
45213215428
*India is an old friend of Vietnam and both don't subscribe to China's claim in the South China Sea. That is the reason for raised eyebrows over India's offer to supply missiles to Vietnam.*
New Delhi (Sputnik) — India has offered to supply indigenously developed Akash missile to Vietnam at a time when both countries are talking of China's growing assertiveness in the Asia-Pacific region.







© PHOTO: YOUTUBE/DEFENSENEWSX
India to Test Nuclear-Capable Submarine-Launched Ballistic Missile
In fact, India has been helping Vietnam's defence modernization when it is trying in confrontation with China on the South China Sea issue. It recently underwrote the costs of four patrol boats that it will build especially for Vietnam.


Akash is a medium range air-to-air missile system developed by India's Defense Research and Development Organization (DRDO). Akash has the capacity to destroy targets up to 30 km away.

Initially, India will supply the missiles off-the-shelf to Vietnam and could later into a joint production arrangement.

Vietnam has been a close Indian ally in South East Asia and Prime Minister Narendra Modi's visit to Vietnam last year saw both countries elevating their strategic partnership to a comprehensive strategic partnership.

India-Vietnam defense ties are an important aspect of their strategic partnership. Earlier, India had offered to supply naval vessels to Vietnam as well as the BrahMos supersonic cruise missile. India also trains Vietnamese fighter pilots as both countries mainly operate Russian fighter jets.

"It's a part of India-Vietnam defense cooperation. Supplying of Akash missiles by India to Vietnam is very small in caparison to what China had supplied to Pakistan. But it's a beginning," Srikant Kondapalli, Professor of Chinese Studies in Jawahar Lal University in New Delhi told Sputnik.
https://sputniknews.com/asia/201701091049409735-india-vietnam-missile-south-china-sea/


----------



## terranMarine

A possible weapon sale from India to Vietnam can now even be found on this thread? @kecho do you understand what this thread is all about?

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## hoangsa74

Why would vietnam buy that pos akash when vietnam already operate the superior israeli made spyder MR Sam? Another indian supa powa news

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cochine

*PH MILITARY HOT SPOT IN WPS, MAKE STRUCTURES STRONGER*
Posted on March 19, 2017






Share on FacebookTweet on Twitter


The Department of National Defense (DND) on Friday (17 March) announced it will station ships and strengthen its military facilities on disputed islands and shoals in the West Philippine Sea internationally known as South China’s.

DND secretary Delfin Lorenzana disclosed the development plans after visiting a military base near Spratly Islands. “We will build a runway and a port, a pier, for our ships on Thitu,” Lorenzana said. “We are a bit blind in that area.”

Thitu is the second largest of the naturally occurring Spratly archipelago and the largest of the Philippine-administered Spratlys. It is close to Subi Reef, which is one of the seven artificial islands in the Spratlys. About 110 fishing community are thought to be living on Thitu, where China has placed its troops but not civilians.

China has built military-grade runways there that have the capability to deploy surface-to-air missiles. Besides, it has built civilian facilities like a lighthouse, which China said has played a positive role in guaranteeing navigation safety and is used in humanitarian rescue efforts.

Lorenzana added that Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte had approved to upgrade facilities not only on Thitu but on the eight other features in the South China Sea it occupies.
http://tankler.com/ph-military-hot-spot-in-wps-make-structures-stronger-13504


----------



## Suika

madokafc said:


> meanwhile it's true Vietnam Armed Forces being communist forces till now still prefer quantity over quality, dont believe it? why the heck till now your army still operating T-34 and T-55 series?



Vientam still has a weak economy. A weak economy cannot purchase advance military tech. But Vietnam's GDP growth rate is fast right now. They will have more money later to purchase new equipment. They are currently looking to buy T-90 tanks from Russia.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cochine

*SC Justice: Invoke defense treaty with US if China attacks Navy in Scarborough*

March 20, 2017 PNA Nation 0

ShareTweet





Supreme Court Senior Associate Justice Antonio Carpio on Monday made recommendations to President Rodrigo Duterte on how to respond to China’s reported plan to install a radar station in the disputed Panatag or Scarborough Shoal. In a statement, Carpio said the President is the Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces which is tasked by the Constitution to defend the country’s territory.

He pointed out that under Republic Act 9522 or the Philippines’ Baseline Law, Scarborough Shoal is part of the Philippine territory.

Carpio said since the Philippines is no match to China militarily, the President can fulfill his constitutional duty by doing any, some or all of the following:

1. File a strong formal protest against the Chinese building activity. This is the least that the President should do. This is what the Vietnamese did recently when China sent cruise tours to the disputed Paracels.

2. Send the Philippine Navy to patrol Scarborough Shoal. If the Chinese forces attack Philippine navy vessels, then the President can invoke the Philippines-US Mutual defense Treaty which covers any armed attack on Philippine navy vessels operating in the South China Sea.

3. Ask the United States to declare that Scarborough Shoal is part of Philippine territory for purposes of the Philippines-US Mutual Defense Treaty since the shoal has been part of Philippine territory even during the American colonial period. The US has declared the Senkakus as part of Japanese territory for purposes of the US-Japan mutual defense treaty.

4. Accept the standing US offer to hold joint naval patrols in the South China Sea, which includes Scarborough Shoal. This will demonstrate joint Philippine and US determination to prevent China from building on Scarborough Shoal.

5. Avoid any act, statement or declaration that expressly or impliedly waives Philippine sovereignty to any Philippine territory in the West Philippine Sea. This will preserve for future generations of Filipinos their national patrimony in the West Philippine Sea.

“This will preserve for future generations of Filipinos their natural patrimony in the West Philippine Sea,” Carpio said.

In 2012, China seized Panatag Shoal or the Scarborough Shoal after a standoff between Chinese and Filipino vessels. China is denying Filipino fishermen access to its rich fishing stock.

The Permanent Court of Arbitration ruled that Panatag Shoal is a “common fishing ground” of fishermen not only from the Philippines but also from China and other neighboring countries.
http://www.update.ph/2017/03/sc-jus...us-if-china-attacks-navy-in-scarborough/15984


----------



## samsara

*In the South China Sea, no sign of a thaw between China and the US*

Mark Valencia says all signs point to a nervous status quo in the South China Sea – though an out-and-out war is unlikely, the prospects of a truce, even a temporary one, are bleak

Mark J. Valencia, 2017-03-10





_If the Trump administration follows hawkish advice and pursues confrontational policies towards China, this could result in a true cold war, with all the negative ramifications for the region’s peace, stability, economics and politics. More worrying, this could break out in a “hot war” at any time. Illustration: Craig Stephens_​
There is an air of anxiety and uncertainty regarding the future of the contest between China and the US in the South China Sea. This is understandable given the wobbly leadership transition in the US, the uncertainty surrounding the Trump administration’s policy towards China, and the equally uncertain Chinese reaction to it. Meanwhile, those favouring a US confrontation with China are clamouring for more aggressive US action, while others are urging caution.

In an optimistic best-case scenario, China and the US will make a pseudo – and temporary – grand bargain which the region’s countries will have to live with. That the US would even consider – let alone make – such a deal would indicate to all that it recognises and respects China’s status as a dominant regional power. This is really what China wants – for now.

Strategically, this would set the tone for the region – in essence a political and military stand-down. China would refrain from further occupation, construction and “militarisation” on its claimed features. It would also not undertake any provocative action like occupying and building on Scarborough Shoal, harassing other claimants in the area and declaring an air defence identification zone over the Spratlys. The US, in turn, would decrease or cease altogether its provocative freedom of navigation operations and its “close-in” intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance probes, which China says threaten its security. It would also refrain from belligerent actions like “blockading” China’s occupied features.

This scenario – a tense “agreement to disagree” – is not without its downside. Since nothing would be fully and finally resolved, it would probably result in intensifying competition – a “cool war” – between the two for soft-power influence in the region. This would intensify pressure on the region’s countries to pick and choose between them. It could even see stepped-up covert operations by both in the vulnerable countries, in which the two powers would support “friendly” domestic factions and foment opposition to its “enemy”. So this situation may simply be kicking the can down the road.
That the US would even consider such a deal would indicate to all that it respects China’s status as a dominant regional power. This is really what China wants – for now

Whatever its merits and demerits, this scenario is unlikely because of the pressure from military hawks and nationalists on both sides for their respective leaders to be more aggressive. More likely is a worse scenario in which the Trump administration follows hawkish advice and pursues across-the-board confrontational policies towards China in general, and in the South China Sea in particular.

This would result in a true cold war, with all the negative ramifications for the region’s peace, stability, economics and politics. More worrying, this cold war could break out in a “hot war” at any time.

Without a doubt, the worst scenario is out-and-out war. Many scenarios could lead to a military confrontation between China and the US that could escalate into war. The South China Sea issues are actually quite low on the list of likely triggers, when compared to a Chinese attack on Taiwan, a Chinese attack on the Japanese-administered Senkaku Islands (known to the Chinese as the Diaoyu Islands, and which the US has said fall under the Japan-US security treaty), or China’s military support for North Korea in a clash between it and South Korea (and the US).

Of course, any one of these clashes could spill over into the South China Sea. And there is always the likelihood of more “accidents” involving the Chinese and US warships and planes there.

This worst scenario, like the best, is also unlikely. One reason is that US President Donald Trump, whether out of strategic intent or dysfunctional character, is clearly inconsistent, unpredictable and downright scary – especially in foreign policy. China’s leaders just don’t know what to make of him. For the US, this is both good and bad. It is good in the sense that it makes potential adversaries like China think twice before calling the US’ bluff. But it is bad in that *it compels China to prepare for the worst by building up its defences – particularly its navy and military cyber capabilities.*

Another reason this scenario is unlikely for now is that despite its public bravado, the US military is a bit wary of taking on China’s anti-access/area denial strategy in a conventional war in China’s “home waters”. US military concerns include China’s probable use of overwhelming numbers of mines and missiles, and its rumoured capability to blind US command and control networks through attacks on critical US satellites and massive cyber strikes. The mutual economic damage that such a clash would wreak is also a deterrent.

The most likely scenario for the South China Sea is something in between – a “leaking” status quo. In this scenario, the US and China eye each other warily. They prepare for the worst but continue in a semi stand-off. Neither crosses the other’s red line. Both continue to enhance their military capabilities and presence in the region. Although this scenario is less than optimal, especially for other countries in the region, it is probably the best that can realistically be hoped for.

We are thus likely to see more of the same – dangerous incidents, threatening rhetoric, and more competition than cooperation, with the Association of Southeast Asian Nations relegated to the sidelines. But a US-China war over the South China Sea is unlikely – for now.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/843292491092840450Tillerson today. Xi Jinping in 2014. Weird, huh? - Patrick Chovanec

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## TaiShang

*National South China Sea Museum lights up Qionghai*
(People's Daily Online) 16:05, March 20, 2017




Photo shows the National South China Sea Museum glittering in the night in Qionghai, Hainan province, March 19, 2017.

Construction of the main structure has already been finished. According to workers at the site, three to four exhibition halls will open to the public during the 2017 Bo'ao Forum for Asia, and the overall construction of the museum is scheduled to be completed by the end of this year. The museum will be a key base for exhibiting the history and culture of the South China Sea. It will also serve to promote exchanges and cooperation among countries along the maritime Silk Road.




Photo shows the National South China Sea Museum glittering in the night in Qionghai, Hainan province, March 19, 2017. (Photo/IC)




Photo shows the National South China Sea Museum glittering in the night in Qionghai, Hainan province, March 19, 2017. (Photo/IC)




Photo shows the National South China Sea Museum glittering in the night in Qionghai, Hainan province, March 19, 2017. (Photo/IC)





Photo shows the National South China Sea Museum glittering in the night in Qionghai, Hainan province, March 19, 2017. (Photo/IC)

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cochine

*Coast Guard should patrol Scarborough – DFA*

March 22, 2017 PNA Nation 0

ShareTweet


The Department of Foreign Affairs (DFA) said it is better to use Philippine Coast Guard ships instead of the Navy in patrolling the vicinity of Bajo de Masinloc to avoid any provocative move.

“The position of DFA is to ask concerned government agencies to patrol Bajo de Masinloc (Scarborough Shoal) using civilian ships,” DFA Spokesman and Assistant Secretary Charles Jose said in a text message Wednesday.

He said Coast Guard ships patrolling the area can immediately send information on any development there.

The DFA senior official is reacting to the statement made by Associate Justice Antonio Carpio to send Navy ships instead of Coast Guards in the area.

However, Jose said sending Navy ships could be misinterpreted.

This after Hainan Daily newspaper recently published the statement made by Sansha Communist Party Secretary Xiao Jie, Mayor of Sansha City, saying that preparations were underway to build an environmental monitoring station on Bajo de Masinloc Shoal which is part of the West Philippine Sea where the Philippines has exclusive sovereign rights.

Meanwhile, Jose said while waiting for the confirmation that there are moves to build another structure in the West Philippine Sea, the Coast Guard should patrol the area to protect Philippine territory.

He said that once it is confirmed that there is such, “we will file diplomatic protest.”

Jose pointed out that the Duterte administration is not abandoning the July 2016 ruling of the UN Arbitral Tribunal, favoring the Philippines but just avoiding possible armed confrontation with China.

He added that the announcement made by Jie does not “reflect the official position” of China.
http://www.update.ph/2017/03/coast-guard-should-patrol-scarborough-dfa/16036


----------



## cochine

@Viet Ignor thís fake Indonesian friend's trolls.

*Incorrect to say there is nothing we can do to stop China – Gatchalian*

March 22, 2017 Gracel Ortega Nation 0

ShareTweet


Senator Win Gatchalian today said that it is now the time for the Duterte administration to invoke the West Philippine Sea Arbitration ruling as China prepares to build a radar installation on the Scarborough (Panatag) Shoal. He also urged President Rodrigo Duterte to re-think his hands-off approach to the issue.

“It is incorrect to say that there is nothing we can do to stop China. We still have several legal and diplomatic options, all of which must be exhausted in defending Philippine territory from foreign aggression. The Philippines should never allow itself to be bullied by anyone, no matter how big and powerful that bully might be,” Gatchalian said in a statement.

“The favorable decision in the Philippines vs. China case is a potent tool we can use to enforce our sovereign rights in the West Philippine Sea. It is our duty to invoke this ruling and take action before international legal institutions to contest any further acts of Chinese aggression in the West Philippine Sea,” he said.

The arbitration ruling in July 2016 declared that Chinese actions in the West Philippine Sea had violated the Philippines’s sovereign rights within its Exclusive Economic Zone.

The senator noted that the Scarborough Shoal, which sits less than 200 kilometers off the coast of Zambales, is a militarily significant position that must be protected at all costs.

“Chinese military activity so close to the Philippine mainland is an alarming national security risk that must be immediately addressed,” Gatchalian said.

“We cannot stop China from doing this thing. Di nga na-para ng Amerikano,” Duterte said during a press briefing prior to his departure to Myanmar Sunday. “So what do you want me to do? What do you want? Declare war against China? I can, but we’ll all lose our military and policemen tomorrow.”

“China is also our friend, and now we are now improving on the economy because of the help of China. Bakit ka naman mag walanghiya para magdaan lang,” Duterte said.

“I will not invoke the arbitral ruling now. But there will be a time in my term when I will bring the issue back on the table on the four square of the arbitral ruling and it will come,” he said.

“When? When they shall start to tinker with the entitlements. Tubig pa lang ngayon eh,” Duterte said.


----------



## Tom99

> Jose pointed out that the Duterte administration is not abandoning the July 2016 ruling of the *UN Arbitral Tribunal*, favoring the Philippines but just avoiding possible armed confrontation with China.



From Wikipedia:



> The *Permanent Court of Arbitration* (PCA) is an intergovernmental organization located at The Hague in the Netherlands. The PCA is not a court "in the traditional sense", but provides services of arbitral tribunal to resolve disputes between member states, international organizations, or private parties arising out of international agreements
> ...
> *The organization is not a United Nations agency.*

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Nike

silly @Viet always drag other Vietnamese member to some mudslinging counter productive arguments either against China, Indonesian or other and had deep bad prejudice against Muslim community. And all starting from his silly comment. The list is so much....

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## hoangsa74

Viet said:


> again, you are a little idiot. Indonesia is a country sending maids overseas serving Chinese, Malay and Arab masters. don´t take it as provocative as I just stated the fact.


Indonesia is building submarines, 2000 tonne corvette, transport aircraft. What does vietnam produce? Bullet?

Stop bragging and start working.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cochine

Tom99 said:


> From Wikipedia:


Permanent Court of Arbitration (PCA) is not a United Nations agency where China or USA is SC member, so that China nor USA, she couldn't interferences in to the affairs . So PCA is impartial in the issue

The Permanent Court of Arbitration (PCA) was established in 1899 to facilitate the peaceful settlement of international disputes. The PCA is an intergovernmental organisation with a growing number of Member States, currently 121, included China. China has signed in to UNCLOS too.

China has to obey the rule of Human kind.


----------



## terranMarine

Obviously Viet is suffering from superiority complex






Vietnam was over a thousand years under China's rule, the French took over afterwards. Then Japan conquered Vietnam during WW2 and then came the US who totally devastated Vietnam for 20 years but thanks to China's assistance those Vietcongs managed to hold that long until the US withdrew back home. So the constant bragging of defeating the Mongols, the US is nothing more than what is described as suffering from inferiority complex and he intends to hide it with the constant bragging of how the Viets managed to defeat such strong opponents all by itself.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## terranMarine

kecho said:


> Supercomplex mentality òf Chine is destroyed bay Mongolian, Manchurian, they ruled you until 1912, and in the last Japanese had ruled you until 1945. Without intervention of Soviet an USA, China is part of Japan Imperial until now. Pls to learn the correct history of China and try best to be ordinary people in modern time.



You deny the millenium domination by China? You deny Vietnam was a French colony? For a large part of your history you were not independent. Someone who is in denial telling others to learn the correct history is ironic 
Why don't you tell us how many years China was not under Han rule? You want to talk about correct history right then educate us how many years was Vietnam under Viet rule. Lets make a comparison that is if you dare.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Tom99

kecho said:


> Permanent Court of Arbitration (PCA) is not a United Nations agency where China or USA is SC member, ...



So Philippines was wrong when it said about the "July 2016 ruling of the UN Arbitral Tribunal"?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## terranMarine

kecho said:


> Viets kicked you back to China. Thís ís my answer.


like i said Viets are superiority complex suffers

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## terranMarine

A list of 71 countries supporting China regarding the ruling
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/who-supports-china-in-the-south-china-sea.441791/

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cochine

terranMarine said:


> A list of 71 countries supporting China regarding the ruling
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/who-supports-china-in-the-south-china-sea.441791/



The list is meaningless. Here is rule of international law.


----------



## terranMarine

international law?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## samsara

kecho said:


> The list is meaningless. Here is rule of international law.



*SUCH KANGAROO COURT was resolutely NOT recognized by China from the very beginning; thus not accepted, invalidated and NOT RELEVANT at all!

China said it very clearly to all concerned parties, any discussion on the South China Sea will never depart from this ruling!! Period.*

This Kangaroo Court may rule "any thing" as long as some country is willing to pay the panel judges (last time the PHI govt under Aquino III just spent around US$30 million as the cost) but China will simply say "*PISS OFF*".

*What do you want to do now? Crying foul aloud??? He he he *

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cochine

*Key points of arbitral tribunal’s verdict on PH-China dispute*
By: Matikas Santos - NewsLab Lead / @MSantosINQ
INQUIRER.net / 05:34 PM July 12, 2016



Demonstrators, police, and media gather outside the Peace Palace in The Hague, Netherlands, on Tuesday, July 12, 2016, ahead of a ruling by the Permanent Court of Arbitration (PCA) on the dispute between China and the Philippines over the South China Sea. China has intensified the drumbeat of its opposition to an international tribunal’s ruling expected Tuesday that could threaten its expansive claims in the South China Sea. (AP Photo/Mike Corder)

The international Arbitral Tribunal on Tuesday issued its award on the arbitration case between Philippines and China over the West Philippine Sea (South China Sea) dispute.

BACKSTORY: Philippines wins arbitration case vs. China over South China Sea

*In a 501-page award, the Tribunal decided in favor of the Philippines and said that China does not have historic rights to the South China Sea and that their “nine-dash line” claim has no legal basis.*

READ: Key points of arbitral tribunal’s verdict on PH-China dispute

Below are five key points included in the summary statement released to the media

*(1)Historic Rights and the ‘Nine-Dash Line’:*
The Tribunal concluded that, to the extent China had historic rights to resources in the waters of the South China Sea, such rights were extinguished to the extent they were incompatible with the exclusive economic zones provided for in the Convention.

The Tribunal also noted that, although 2 Chinese navigators and fishermen, as well as those of other States, had historically made use of the islands in the South China Sea, there was no evidence that China had historically exercised exclusive control over the waters or their resources.

The Tribunal concluded that there was no legal basis for China to claim historic rights to resources within the sea areas falling within the ‘nine-dash line’.

*(2)Status of Features:*
The Tribunal noted that the reefs have been heavily modified by land reclamation and construction, recalled that the Convention classifies features on their natural condition, and relied on historical materials in evaluating the features.

The Tribunal found historical evidence to be more relevant and noted that the Spratly Islands were historically used by small groups of fishermen and that several Japanese fishing and guano mining enterprises were attempted.

The Tribunal concluded that such transient use does not constitute inhabitation by a stable community and that all of the historical economic activity had been extractive. Accordingly, the Tribunal concluded that none of the Spratly Islands is capable of generating extended maritime zones.

The Tribunal also held that the Spratly Islands cannot generate maritime zones collectively as a unit. Having found that none of the features claimed by China was capable of generating an exclusive economic zone, the Tribunal found that it could—without delimiting a boundary—declare that certain sea areas are within the exclusive economic zone of the Philippines, because those areas are not overlapped by any possible entitlement of China.

*(3)Lawfulness of Chinese Actions:*
Having found that certain areas are within the exclusive economic zone of the Philippines, the Tribunal found that China had violated the Philippines’ sovereign rights in its exclusive economic zone by (a) interfering with Philippine fishing and petroleum exploration, (b) constructing artificial islands and (c) failing to prevent Chinese fishermen from fishing in the zone.

The Tribunal also held that fishermen from the Philippines (like those from China) had traditional fishing rights at Scarborough Shoal and that China had interfered with these rights in restricting access.

The Tribunal further held that Chinese law enforcement vessels had unlawfully created a serious risk of collision when they physically obstructed Philippine vessels.

*(4)Harm to Marine Environment:*
The Tribunal considered the effect on the marine environment of China’s recent large-scale land reclamation and construction of artificial islands at seven features in the Spratly Islands and found that China had caused severe harm to the coral reef environment and violated its obligation to preserve and protect fragile ecosystems and the habitat of depleted, threatened, or endangered species.

The Tribunal also found that Chinese authorities were aware that Chinese fishermen have harvested endangered sea turtles, coral, and giant clams on a substantial scale in the South China Sea (using methods that inflict severe damage on the coral reef environment) and had not fulfilled their obligations to stop such activities

*(5)Aggravation of Dispute:*
Finally, the Tribunal considered whether China’s actions since the commencement of the arbitration had aggravated the dispute between the Parties.

The Tribunal found that it lacked jurisdiction to consider the implications of a stand-off between Philippine marines and Chinese naval and law enforcement vessels at Second Thomas Shoal, holding that this dispute involved military activities and was therefore excluded from compulsory settlement.

The Tribunal found, however, that China’s recent large-scale land reclamation and construction of artificial islands was incompatible with the obligations on a State during dispute resolution proceedings, insofar as China has inflicted irreparable harm to the marine environment, built a large artificial island in the Philippines’ exclusive economic zone, and destroyed evidence of the natural condition of features in the South China Sea that formed part of the Parties’ dispute.

BACKSTORY: #InquirerSeven FAQ about the Philippines vs. China arbitration case

The Convention

Under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) a coastal state needs to have land before they can claim rights to the sea. The international treaty has been signed and ratified by both the Philippines and China.

“You need to have land before you can have rights to the sea. It’s as simple as that.You cannot just have rights to the sea without owning land,” former Solicitor General Francis Jardeleza said in a forum at the University of the Philippines (UP) Law Center in 2014, citing the basic principle of UNCLOS.

China asserts it has “indisputable sovereignty” and “historic rights” to over two-thirds of the 3.5 million square kilometers South China Sea using its “nine-dash line” claim that overlaps with the UNCLOS-mandated 200-nautical-mile Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ).

The line, encircling an area roughly the size of Mexico, overlaps territories claimed by the Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan. China argues that its historic rights justify the line. But the Philippines insists that these rights cannot be used to define sea borders.

The Philippines says since the South China Sea is mostly sea, there is no land mass or clumps of islands and rocks there large enough to generate sea borders that will span the over 2 million square kilometers China is claiming with its nine-dash line.

In recent months, China has conducted massive land reclamation activities turning submerged reefs into artificial islands capable of hosting military equipment and structures.

Unclos, however, does not recognize artificial islands and states that these are not entitled to a 12 nautical mile territorial sea nor a 200 nm eez.

PHOTOS: China’s construction of military bases in Spratlys




Satellite image analysis South China Sea reclamation in Spratly Islands

_/rga_



Read more: http://globalnation.inquirer.net/14...ion-spratly-islands-scarborough#ixzz4c8TZZ1vL
Follow us: @inquirerdotnet on Twitter | inquirerdotnet on Facebook



samsara said:


> *SUCH KANGAROO COURT was resolutely NOT recognized by China from the very beginning; thus not accepted, invalidated and NOT RELEVANT at all!
> 
> China said it very clearly to all concerned parties, any discussion on the South China Sea will never depart from this ruling!! Period.*
> 
> This Kangaroo Court may rule "any thing" as long as some country is willing to pay the panel judges (last time the PHI govt under Aquino III just spent around US$30 million as the cost) but China will simply say "*PISS OFF*".
> 
> *What do you want to do now? Crying foul aloud??? He he he *


----------



## Tom99

kecho said:


> The unanimous *ruling of the Permanent Court of Arbitration (the “PCA” or “Tribunal”) in the dispute between the Philippines and China is a landmark decision under the United Nations Law of the Sea Convention (UNCLOS) and represents a strong rebuke of China’s expansive claims to maritime territory in the South China Sea.*




From: http://globalnation.inquirer.net/141125/arbitral-court-not-a-un-agency



> The United Nations said on Wednesday it has nothing to do with the Permanent Court of Arbitration (PCA), which set up a tribunal that handled the South China Sea arbitration case the Philippines filed unilaterally in 2013.
> 
> In a post on its Sina Weibo micro blog, the UN said the PCA is a “tenant” of the Peace Palace in The Hague, “but has nothing to do with the UN”.


....


> When asked about the Arbitral Tribunal’s case’s ruling on Tuesday, Stephane Dujarric, spokesman for UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon said “The UN doesn’t have a position on the legal and procedural merits” of the South China Sea arbitration case.



The PAC is not an UN agency. 

If I hire a bunch of clowns to play judge and juries and rule you of a crime under Vietnamese laws in Vietnam, it doesn't make it legal, binding, or lawful.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## terranMarine

It has been said countless of times, the United Nations refused to accept that PCA has anything to do with the UN. This clown @kecho keeps talking lies, so it comes as no surprise no other nationals are voicing their support for PH. Heck China even got the support from 71 countries and said China was correct, only 1 hand was needed to count the number of countries who were supporting PH. Funny how a liar keeps calling Chinese people liars, the irony.....

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## samsara

terranMarine said:


> It has been said countless of times, the United Nations refused to accept that PCA has anything to do with the UN. This clown @kecho keeps talking lies, so it comes as no surprise no other nationals are voicing their support for PH. Heck China even got the support from 71 countries and said China was correct, only 1 hand was needed to count the number of countries who were supporting PH. Funny how a liar keeps calling Chinese people liars, the irony.....


And the army of *Fake News (TM) manufacturers* do associate the PCA tribunal with the United Nations.

Since they are fake, no surprise they will fabricate info to prop their Fake News.
The folks like @kecho conveniently parrot the Fake News media to prop their stance!


*The Hague's Permanent Court of Arbitration (PCA) tribunal is NOT appointed by UN at all.*

Not related to UN or International Court of Justice (ICJ).

Permanent Court of Arbitration - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_Court_of_Arbitration

Arbitral court is NOT a UN agency!

The UNITED NATIONS said on Wednesday it has nothing to do with the Permanent Court of Arbitration (PCA), which set up a tribunal that handled the South China Sea arbitration case the Philippines filed unilaterally in 2013.

In a post on its Sina Weibo micro blog, the UN said the PCA is a “tenant” of the Peace Palace in The Hague, “but has nothing to do with the UN”.

The UN said the International Court of Justice, its principal judicial organ set up according to the Charter of the UN, is also located in the Peace Palace.

The construction of the palace was managed by the CARNEGIE FOUNDATION, which is still the building’s owner and manager, according to the Peace Palace website.

The UN said it makes an annual donation to the foundation for using the Peace Palace.

When asked about the Arbitral Tribunal’s case’s ruling on Tuesday, Stephane Dujarric, spokesman for UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon said “The UN doesn’t have a position on the legal and procedural merits” of the South China Sea arbitration case.
...
http://globalnation.inquirer.net/141125/arbitral-court-not-a-un-agency


The ruling of this tribunal is ILLEGAL in that it should not have taken place when the other party REFUSED a tribunal process, and when it's ruling VIOLATED the very terms of the UNCLOS that it claimed to be based on.

It ignored the fact that *China had made DECLARATIONS (EXCEPTIONS) when she rectified the UNCLOS*. Therefore, it's rulings is illegal when it contravened directly against UNCLOS.

China's Declarations to the UNCLOS

*Declaration under article 298:*
The Government of the People's Republic of China does not accept any of the procedures provided for in Section 2 of Part XV of the Convention with respect to all the categories of disputes referred to in paragraph 1 (a) (b) and (c) of Article 298 of the Convention.


"*Article 298. Optional exceptions to applicability of section 2*
"1. When signing, ratifying or acceding to this Convention or at any time thereafter, a State may, without prejudice to the obligations arising under section 1, declare in writing that it does not accept any one or more of the procedures provided for in section 2 with respect to one or more of the following categories of disputes:

(a)
(i) disputes concerning the interpretation or application of articles 15, 74 and 83 relating to sea boundary delimitations, or those involving historic bays or titles, provided that a State having made such a declaration shall, when such a dispute arises subsequent to the entry into force of this Convention and where no agreement within a reasonable period of time is reached in negotiations between the parties, at the request of any party to the dispute, accept submission of the matter to conciliation under Annex V, section 2; and provided further that any dispute that necessarily involves the concurrent consideration of any unsettled dispute concerning sovereignty or other rights over continental or insular land territory shall be excluded form such submission;
(ii) after the conciliation commission has presented its report, which shall state the reasons on which it is based, the parties shall negotiate an agreement on the basis of that report; if these negotiations do not result in an agreement, the parties shall, by mutual consent, submit the question to one of the procedures provided for in section 2, unless the parties otherwise agree;
(iii) this subparagraph does not apply to any sea boundary dispute finally settled by an arrangement between the parties, or to any such dispute which is to be settled in accordance with a bilateral or multilateral agreement binding upon those parties;

(b) disputes concerning military activities, including military activities by government vessels and aircraft engaged in non-commercial service, and disputes concerning law enforcement activities in regard to the exercise of sovereign rights or jurisdiction excluded from the jurisdiction of a court or tribunal under article 297, paragraph 2 or 3;

(c) disputes in respect of which the Security Council of the United Nations is exercising the functions assigned to it by the Charter of the United Nations, unless the Security Council decides to remove the matter from its agenda or calls upon the parties to settle it by the means provided for in this Convention."

Declarations or Statements upon UNCLOS ratification
http://www.un.org/depts/los/convention_agreements/convention_declarations.htm


And if one really cares to understand the real South China Sea issues beyond the rabid propaganda by Empire-controlled mainstream media (MSM) along with their mouthpieces:

This is the other Filipino voice that gives a better perspective behind what happened. All for the price of two old US coast guard vessels.

Filipino Perspective

The Philippine suit: A brilliant US machination? | The Manila Times Online
http://www.manilatimes.net/the-philippine-suit-a-brilliant-us-machination/273407/

Thinking Pinoy: South China Sea #CHexit decision explained in simple Taglish
http://www.thinkingpinoy.net/2016/07/south-china-sea-chexit-decision.html#/page/1

Thinking Pinoy: The South China Sea Decision and Perfecto Yasay's Face
http://www.thinkingpinoy.net/2016/07/south-china-sea-ITLOS-UNCLOS-Yasay-Face-chexit.html#/page/1

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Suika

terranMarine said:


> A list of 71 countries supporting China regarding the ruling
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/who-supports-china-in-the-south-china-sea.441791/



Well, the link posted the list of countries and the map, but there was a whole article to it. Many of the countries that supported China did not support China fully but only in some respects. Here is the article.

---start---
---start---
The South China Sea arbitration case has elicited almost unanimous public opposition in China. Besides this, it has been reported that 66 countries worldwide have endorsed China’s position on the South China Sea. Yet that figure also caused controversy, especially in the United States.

According to our team’s research, we have found at least 70 countries supporting China’s position on various occasions. We find that the reason for the controversy over the figure comes down to different definitions on “China’s position.” But no matter how it is defined, the psychology behind these statements is a desire to avoid taking sides between China and the United States, showing the reality of a fundamental global consensus on peace and wide-spread anxiety toward the potential for conflict in the South China Sea. Thus, we should take every opportunity to go beyond the “zero-sum game” in order to maintain peace in the South China Sea, to seek Asia-Pacific economic cooperation, and to make the “cake” bigger using economic and financial means.

How many countries support China’s South China Sea position?

There is no doubt that Chinese almost unanimously support their government’s official position on the South China Sea, shown by the firestorm of social media comments soon after the award. Moreover, China’s position is also welcomed and understood by other countries. According to the Chinese government and media, nearly 100 parties from more than 60 countries declared their support for China’s position on the South China Sea issue. China Daily counted 66 countries, as shown in the map below.

The figure, however, encountered doubts from American media and think tanks. The Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative argued that the real number was only ten. We personally also received emails expressing similar doubts.

Considering such a huge gap in the count, our research team at the international studies department of Chongyang Institute for Financial Studies, Renmin University of China (RDCY), sought to verify on our own by conducting an independent count. We explored the issue by extensively searching the internet, and then looked for original sources including media reports, official statements, diplomatic documents, and talking points. We also searched the Chinese foreign affairs database, Xinhua‘s news and multimedia database, and our news citation system with data from various sources such as Bloomberg and Reuters to verify.

Strikingly, we identified 70 countries that have expressed their support for China’s position, even more than reported by Chinese media. In addition, the League of Arab States and Shanghai Cooperation Organization are also in line with China. (We have listed the countries and sourced all of the statements, with the date of issue, in the appendix below). It is said some others privately expressed support to China according to our global network, but we only counted the countries that went on record. It is also possible that our team may have miss some countries that are supporting China.

Why is there such a big gap in the number？

One reason is quite obvious: some of these statements of support are not available in English. They are expressed and available in Chinese, French, Spanish, Arabic, Swahili, Khmer, or other languages. Therefore, some analysts in the English-speaking world may have merely failed to find them.

More importantly, though, the discrepancy has something to do with the essence of “China’s position.” Simply put, we suppose most American media and think tanks have not yet understood what “China’s position” means. In our view, China’s position on the South China Sea issue can be interpreted as below:

1. China does not participate in the arbitration, nor accept, recognize, or implement the award.
2. China will adhere to peaceful negotiations and settlements of the South China Sea dispute.
3. While disputes should be settled by the parties directly concerned in accordance with the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea (DOC), China will work with ASEAN countries to maintain peace and stability in this region.
4. The temporally-established (ad hoc) arbitral tribunal is neither a part of the Permanent Court of Arbitration (PCA) nor the International Court of Justice (ICJ). It does not have jurisdiction over the territorial disputes, which is the core of the arbitration. The arbitration itself is flawed in procedure. Thus, the award is not legally-binding, nor representing international law.

To directly support any of those components is to support China’s position. On the contrary, those countries that openly endorse the arbitral tribunal as affiliated to PCA and assert China should recognize and implement the award oppose China’s position.

In this regard, at least 70 countries, based on our research, endorse China’s position in various angles of the four components above, and they did so in various ways: unilaterally, bilaterally, or multilaterally. All of them welcome peaceful negotiations to settle the disputes. In addition, we should bear in mind that Philippines’ ex-parte arbitration violates its own commitment to peaceful dialogue and negotiation. Among these countries, some expressed their public and firm support for China’s stance of non-acceptance of the arbitration. Nonetheless, “non-acceptance” is only part of China’s position. American media and think tanks who use this alone for their counts misinterpreted the implication of China’s position.

Generally speaking, most countries’ attitudes toward the South China Sea issue can fall into three categories.

Counties in the first category, represented by Japan, oppose China’s position by supporting the Philippines’ stance while insisting China should recognize and implement the result of the arbitration, which is claimed to officially represent the PCA. This opinion is rare. China Daily mapped five in its report, but our team can only identify three: Japan, Australia, and the United States. Vietnam and the United Kingdom, though represented on the map, do not meet the definition of opposing China directly. In this circumstance, although Japan indeed raised the issue at the Asia-Europe Meeting (ASEM) in Ulaanbaatar, it was echoed by no country except the Philippines itself, according to Japanese media such as Japan Today, The Japan Times, and The Japan News.

The second group includes countries that explicitly expressed their firm support to China on the arbitration, such as Pakistan, Cambodia, and some African countries. This group is bigger than the first one, but still limited. For example, in a public speech broadcast on TVK, Cambodia’s state-owned television network, on June 20, Prime Minister Hun Sen revealed diplomatic pressure over the South China Sea from “certain country outside the region” — widely believed to refer to Japan — and expressed his objection to the arbitration. In a press release found on the official website of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Pakistan on July 12, the Chinese neighbor reiterated its support for China on its statement of optional exception in light of Article 298 of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS). Among African countries, Kenya issued a statement on June 15, also on its MFA website, declaring its respect for China’s right of optional exception under UNCLOS Article 298. Gambia, another coastal country in West Africa, has stated its support of China’s position on the arbitration by clearly saying the arbitral tribunal has no jurisdiction over delimitation in the South China Sea through the Gambia Radio and Television Service (GRTS).

Last, many countries, categorized as the third group, support China’s position in terms of resolving the disputes through consultations and negotiations while following the Declarations on the Conduct of Parties in South China Sea (DOC). Combining the second and the third groups, we have found 70 countries, with probably some still missing. Our global think tank network and foreign embassies in Beijing told us some other countries also hold similar attitudes, but have not openly expressed their position due to some “pressure.” We did not include them in our count.

Therefore, our key finding is that the claim by Chinese officials that at least 66 countries support China’s position is verified and solid; in fact, we found five more countries. Although the second and third groups as outlined above may have different stresses on China’s position, they all welcome at least one of the four components. Considering China’s official position on the peace negotiations, these two types of opinions acknowledge the path of peace talks.

Further, the fact that most countries do not show a hardline stance toward either China or the United States illustrates their anxiety about conflicts. This psychological factor is the fundamental issue behind the rally of support.

The Root Cause: Anxiety Over Conflict

In our opinion, the moderated stances of most countries can be explained by the global fundamental consensus over the South China Sea issue — a desire for peace. However, some people are worried about the possibility of an armed clash in the South China Sea and even the start of a “new Cold War” which may force countries to take sides between the United States and China. From this point of view, those who assert that only 10 countries support China not only too narrowly define “China’s position,” but also fail to fully recognize the nuance of other countries’ positions. Moreover, whether the count is 10 or 70, the real issues behind these statements are the global consensus on peace and worldwide anxieties or even fears of conflict — or worse, war.

In recent years, conflicts and turbulence have risen across the world. Thus, there are great anxieties about social unrest and mass violence; there are also anxieties about the distrust between major powers, which may very likely result in a new Cold War or even hot wars if badly managed.

East Asia has long been called “The Museum of Cold War,” where long-standing geopolitical and traditional security issues have not yet been settled and even have been heating up in recent years, especially after the “pivot to Asia” was introduced.

Recently, the South China Sea has been the focal point of Sino-U.S. relations. However, when it comes to the South China Sea issue, some countries find themselves trapped into a dilemma: not only do they worry about the loss of economic support from China, but also they are worried about the loss of security support from the United States. Moreover, some may worry that the regional organization they belong to will be split by the South China Sea issue.

Besides Cambodia mentioned above, Singapore and Thailand have also stated that they will not be involved in the disputes and called for peace. Further, ASEAN as a whole did not form a unanimous view after the arbitration, which shows even ASEAN countries try to avoid taking sides between the two giants.

A great portion of China’s support comes from African and Middle Eastern states that call for diplomatic negotiations rather than unilateral actions. This is not surprising given their collective history as colonies and the deteriorating security environment in these regions.

Extremism is on the rise while the South China Sea heats up. In one of our seminars in Washington D.C. recently, Professor Amitai Etzioni of George Washington University reminded us that the United States’ active response to terrorism and extremism in the Middle East and Africa will also guarantee its credibility among allies without taking on the risk of conflict with China; meanwhile, China has many common interests with the United States on anti-terrorism issues.

Take a look at the tragedy in Nice, think about the death toll in Kabul, let alone the long-lasting bloody turbulence in the Middle East, then you will probably agree with our conclusion: it is time for China and the United States to work together to address our common threats — terrorism and extremism — instead of focusing on the current zero-sum game in the South China Sea.

Beyond the Zero-Sum Game: Seek Asia-Pacific Cooperation

When former Chinese State Councilor Dai Bingguo famously said the arbitral award is nothing but “a piece of waste paper” in the U.S.-China Dialogue on the South China Sea held by our institute (RDCY) and the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, we have almost forgotten his key point is that we need a cooling down. Indeed, no matter how the public reacts to the arbitration, the “fusing point” — July 12 — has already passed; all parties are evaluating the next step in the game and restarting the long-term setup for the region. As we mentioned above, peace, the real and fundamental global consensus, remains there. Whether parties want it or not, the disputes will be settled in peace while regional cooperation will continue.

In fact, even in the Philippines there is an effort toward peace. Rodrigo Duterte, the new president, has shown a low-key, restrained, and cooperative attitude after the arbitration. It is reported that Fidel Ramos, a former Philippine president (and also the authors’ friend), will visit China as an envoy. All these efforts show that peace and stability remain the common interests of all parties of the South China Sea in the “post-arbitration” era.

This also goes for the United States. As Jeffery Bader of the Brookings Institution wrote in his recent “framework for U.S. policy toward China,” despite the disputes over the South China Sea issue, China is still a vital stakeholder in global governance and shares a lot of common interests with the United States. In particular, China is going to hold the G20 summit in Hangzhou — a chance for China to lead the global economy recovery cooperatively with other G20 members, including the United States. So why can’t the two cooperate on the South China Sea?

There have been good signs, in fact. Admiral John Richardson, the U.S. chief of naval operations (CNO) paid a successful visit to China on July 17-20, having a fruitful talk with his counterpart Adm. Wu Shengli. We hope this visit will serve as a new starting point for Sino-U.S. military exchanges after the arbitration.

Furthermore, cooperative governance is plausible in the South China Sea. As the authors said at the U.S.-China Dialogue, the most devastating threat to the fishermen in and around the South China Sea is not from China, nor from the United States, but from typhoons. In this regard, all parties, including China and the United States, can cooperate on issues such as meteorological stations, data sharing, typhoon early warning systems, and joint research on climate change. When it comes to hard military issues, the mechanism for Sino-U.S. cooperation already exists. China has taken part in the RIMPAC exercises twice now; in fact, as we wrote this piece, one Chinese fleet was exercising together with U.S. Navy around Hawaii. It is time to freeze tensions as well as activating the existing military exchanges.

We should also bring joint development and broader economic cooperation back to table. Recently, the Duterte government has expressed its will to cooperate with China in exploiting the resources of the South China Sea. The Philippines have some maritime area in the South China Sea that are not subject to sovereignty disputes, but does not have the technology and investment to benefit from them. Here China can do something for the Philippines. This prospect recalls the suggestion to shelve differences and seek joint development put forward by former Chinese leader Deng Xiaoping when meeting with a former Philippine leader.

Finally, as we wrote in our previous article, the South China Sea issue will not stop China-ASEAN economic and financial cooperation. The 21st Century Maritime Silk Road initiative and Mekong-Lancang Mechanism initiated by China are shaping more diversified development projects, and a more flexible and open win-win situation where all ASEAN countries can obtain the investments that they urgently need, including in the sectors of manufacturing, infrastructure, and what we call the “financial infrastructure.” Moreover, the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank (AIIB) is a financial institution with strong compatibility and feasibility. The Philippines joined the institution as a founding member; of course, Japan and the United States are welcome to join and benefit from AIIB as well.

To conclude, to avoid a war and to maintain peace in the South China Sea and the Asia-Pacific is the real and fundamental global consensus behind the divergent views on “China’s position.” To make a difference, China, the United States, and other countries should bring joint development back and focus more on possible cooperation areas from anti-terrorism to economic and financial ties, eventually leading the global economy out of its sluggish and uneven recovery.
---end---
---end---
http://thediplomat.com/2016/07/who-supports-china-in-the-south-china-sea-and-why/

Probably the real reason why so many countries supported China in some form or another was just to get money out of China. All those countries in Africa.. do you think they really care about the South China Sea? Venezuela? They were a recipient of Chinese investments. But even Chinese investments didn't save their country from collapsing. The US and Japan openly opposed. Just those two count multiple times more than all those Africa countries. Australia came along with the US and Japan like a good ally. Not a single major European country supported China. They remained silent, they know what is economically good.

Additionally, in December 2016, the UK said they will sail their new carriers through the South China Sea. And they will fly Typhoons through the South China Sea in support of international law.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ted-South-China-Sea-strength-aimed-China.html

And France is slowly coming in towards actual military relations with the US, Japan, and the UK in support of international law.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-navy-china-idUSKBN16O0QK

Regardless of what color India is on that map, they support Vietnam in regards to the South China Sea, and China has expressed its dislike of it.
https://thewire.in/63957/india-and-vietnam-upgrade-to-comprehensive-strategic-partnership/

Vietnam of course maintains its claims in the South China Sea and has been improving the capabilities of their features in the Spratly islands.

I don't understand why China felt like having a party on their airbase on Fiery Cross Reef last year. Apparently they all actually thought that they were going to get away with it.









http://www.thenational.ae/world/eas...s-singers-to-assert-claims-in-south-china-sea

When it becomes May 2017, it'll be one year since they had that party, and JS Izumo will be sailing and practicing with the US Navy in the South China Sea. Maybe the Chinese will have another party for when JS Izumo comes, I don't know. Maybe they think 20 countries from Africa will bring whatever scrapes of naval forces to the South China Sea for joint training with the PLA Navy? Again, I don't know..

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cochine

samsara said:


> And the army of *Fake News (TM) manufacturers* do associate the PCA tribunal with the United Nations.
> 
> Since they are fake, no surprise they will fabricate info to prop their Fake News.
> The folks like @kecho conveniently parrot the Fake News media to prop their stance!
> 
> 
> *The Hague's Permanent Court of Arbitration (PCA) tribunal is NOT appointed by UN at all.*
> 
> Not related to UN or International Court of Justice (ICJ).
> 
> Permanent Court of Arbitration - Wikipedia
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_Court_of_Arbitration
> 
> Arbitral court is NOT a UN agency!
> 
> The UNITED NATIONS said on Wednesday it has nothing to do with the Permanent Court of Arbitration (PCA), which set up a tribunal that handled the South China Sea arbitration case the Philippines filed unilaterally in 2013.
> 
> In a post on its Sina Weibo micro blog, the UN said the PCA is a “tenant” of the Peace Palace in The Hague, “but has nothing to do with the UN”.
> 
> The UN said the International Court of Justice, its principal judicial organ set up according to the Charter of the UN, is also located in the Peace Palace.
> 
> The construction of the palace was managed by the CARNEGIE FOUNDATION, which is still the building’s owner and manager, according to the Peace Palace website.
> 
> The UN said it makes an annual donation to the foundation for using the Peace Palace.
> 
> When asked about the Arbitral Tribunal’s case’s ruling on Tuesday, Stephane Dujarric, spokesman for UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon said “The UN doesn’t have a position on the legal and procedural merits” of the South China Sea arbitration case.
> ...
> http://globalnation.inquirer.net/141125/arbitral-court-not-a-un-agency
> 
> 
> The ruling of this tribunal is ILLEGAL in that it should not have taken place when the other party REFUSED a tribunal process, and when it's ruling VIOLATED the very terms of the UNCLOS that it claimed to be based on.
> 
> It ignored the fact that *China had made DECLARATIONS (EXCEPTIONS) when she rectified the UNCLOS*. Therefore, it's rulings is illegal when it contravened directly against UNCLOS.
> 
> China's Declarations to the UNCLOS
> 
> *Declaration under article 298:*
> The Government of the People's Republic of China does not accept any of the procedures provided for in Section 2 of Part XV of the Convention with respect to all the categories of disputes referred to in paragraph 1 (a) (b) and (c) of Article 298 of the Convention.
> 
> 
> "*Article 298. Optional exceptions to applicability of section 2*
> "1. When signing, ratifying or acceding to this Convention or at any time thereafter, a State may, without prejudice to the obligations arising under section 1, declare in writing that it does not accept any one or more of the procedures provided for in section 2 with respect to one or more of the following categories of disputes:
> 
> (a)
> (i) disputes concerning the interpretation or application of articles 15, 74 and 83 relating to sea boundary delimitations, or those involving historic bays or titles, provided that a State having made such a declaration shall, when such a dispute arises subsequent to the entry into force of this Convention and where no agreement within a reasonable period of time is reached in negotiations between the parties, at the request of any party to the dispute, accept submission of the matter to conciliation under Annex V, section 2; and provided further that any dispute that necessarily involves the concurrent consideration of any unsettled dispute concerning sovereignty or other rights over continental or insular land territory shall be excluded form such submission;
> (ii) after the conciliation commission has presented its report, which shall state the reasons on which it is based, the parties shall negotiate an agreement on the basis of that report; if these negotiations do not result in an agreement, the parties shall, by mutual consent, submit the question to one of the procedures provided for in section 2, unless the parties otherwise agree;
> (iii) this subparagraph does not apply to any sea boundary dispute finally settled by an arrangement between the parties, or to any such dispute which is to be settled in accordance with a bilateral or multilateral agreement binding upon those parties;
> 
> (b) disputes concerning military activities, including military activities by government vessels and aircraft engaged in non-commercial service, and disputes concerning law enforcement activities in regard to the exercise of sovereign rights or jurisdiction excluded from the jurisdiction of a court or tribunal under article 297, paragraph 2 or 3;
> 
> (c) disputes in respect of which the Security Council of the United Nations is exercising the functions assigned to it by the Charter of the United Nations, unless the Security Council decides to remove the matter from its agenda or calls upon the parties to settle it by the means provided for in this Convention."
> 
> Declarations or Statements upon UNCLOS ratification
> http://www.un.org/depts/los/convention_agreements/convention_declarations.htm
> 
> 
> And if one really cares to understand the real South China Sea issues beyond the rabid propaganda by Empire-controlled mainstream media (MSM) along with their mouthpieces:
> 
> This is the other Filipino voice that gives a better perspective behind what happened. All for the price of two old US coast guard vessels.
> 
> Filipino Perspective
> 
> The Philippine suit: A brilliant US machination? | The Manila Times Online
> http://www.manilatimes.net/the-philippine-suit-a-brilliant-us-machination/273407/
> 
> Thinking Pinoy: South China Sea #CHexit decision explained in simple Taglish
> http://www.thinkingpinoy.net/2016/07/south-china-sea-chexit-decision.html#/page/1
> 
> Thinking Pinoy: The South China Sea Decision and Perfecto Yasay's Face
> http://www.thinkingpinoy.net/2016/07/south-china-sea-ITLOS-UNCLOS-Yasay-Face-chexit.html#/page/1



The nature od this dispute is the invasion of China in to SCS islands and claim of China to the nine dashed line is illegal. China is member of SC of UN, China signed in to UNCLOS, China has to obey rules of international laws, there is better way for China's rising.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## GS Zhou

the living conditions on China's Xisha Island have improved a lot. A most recent news article said the self-sufficient ratio of vegetables supplies of the Xisha Islands reach 30% to 70%, depending on seasons.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## TaiShang

*China broadcasts marine forecasts for three Nansha reefs*
(Xinhua) 09:02, March 24, 2017






_The Yongshu reef in the Nansha Islands [File photo: Xinhua]_

China on Thursday started broadcasting marine forecasts for three reefs in the Nansha Islands via radio to the South China Sea region.

Based on the forecasting information provided by the State Oceanic Administration (SOA), the Guangzhou coastal radio station broadcasts forecasts for waves, tides, ocean temperatures, winds and tropical cyclones on the *Yongshu, Meiji and Zhubi reefs*, said Bai Yiping, deputy director of the SOA South China Sea forecast center.

The radio station broadcasts on 15 frequencies via single sideband radiotelephone, very high frequency radiotelephone and narrowband printing telegraph.

*Forecasts for the marine conditions of the three reefs started on Jan. 1, with related information released via online platforms, fax and mobile text messages.*

With the new radio broadcast channel, vessels and reef residents in the South China Sea will receive accurate information instantly to protect the safety of people's lives and assets, said Hong Sixiong, an official for South China Sea navigation.

***
_
China has been relentlessly working to improve the conditions in China's South China Sea islands. _

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## GS Zhou

kecho said:


> China stolen Hoang Sa from Vietnam in 1974.
> 
> Vietnamese have been living in Hoang Sa long time ago in the past in Hoang Sa (Spratly Islands).


it is not a good habit to call others islands as yours. I'll never call your house in any Vietnam city as my house.

If you strongly believe Xisha Islands belongs to Vietnam, write an email to VCP and request them to declare a war on China. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Job offerings from China's Xisha Islands! The jobs are all relevant to infrastructures building on these Islands. And the payment is not bad!!

- Senior engineer: RMB 13,000 / month
- Middle-level engineer: RMB 11,000 / month
- Junior engineer: RMB 6,000 / month
- The above mentioned payment does NOT include the additional incentives for working on these islands.

(FYI: 1 USD = 6.9 RMB)

　　1.项目工程师岗薪酬：高级工程师13000元/人/月，试用期3个月，试用期间按照80%发放；中级工程师11000元/人/月，试用期3个月，试用期间按照80%发放；
　　2.助理工程师岗薪酬：助理工程师6000元/人/月，试用期3个月，试用期间按照80%发放；
　　3.项目财务岗薪酬：5000元/人/月，试用期3个月，试用期内按照80%发放；
　　4.驻岛补贴按照三沙市驻岛补助标准发放。


三沙市永乐管委会临时法人项目办公室招聘启示
时间：2017-02-23 来源：市新闻中心 作者： 　字号：大 中


　　根据二届1次市政府常务会议精神及省委第四巡视组巡视整改意见，参照《海南省事业单位公开招聘人员实施办法》（琼人社发〔2011〕100号）精神，拟招聘项目办技术人员7名（编外人员），结合我市实际，制订此招聘程序。
　　一、工作职责
　　三沙市永乐群岛管理委员会项目办公室负责永乐群岛各岛礁相关项目的前期工作、施工建设、竣工验收及有关协调、文秘、财务等日常管理工作。
　　二、招聘原则和组织形式
　　招聘工作坚持德才兼备的用人标准和公开、平等、竞争、择优的原则，由用人单位具体组织实施，在用人单位上级人事部门的指导和纪检部门的全程监督下完成本次招聘工作。
　　三、招聘岗位人数、工作地点及服务期限
　　1.招聘岗位及人数：项目办技术人员需按本程序进行招聘筛选。本次招聘项目工程师岗1名、助理工程师岗4名、项目财务岗1名；
　　2.工作地点：三沙市永乐群岛；
　　3.服务期限：1年（期满考核合格可续签）
　　四、招聘对象和范围
　　面向全国招聘具有相关岗位条件要求的人员。报考者必须在报名时提供岗位要求的岗位资格证书。
　　五、招聘基本条件
　　（一）报考者应同时具备的条件
　　1、具有中华人民共和国国籍；
　　2、遵守国家法律、法规，无违法、违纪行为；
　　3、具有良好的品行和职业道德；
　　4、身体健康，不晕船，适应岛礁工作、生活，具有正常履行岗位职责的身体条件；
　　5、在编在岗人员，须征得工作单位同意；
　　6、应聘人员须签订保密协议；
　　（二）有下列情况之一者，不得报考
　　1、曾受过各类刑事处罚的；
　　2、曾被开除公职的；
　　3、有违法、违纪行为正在接受审查的；
　　4、尚未解除党纪、政纪处分的；
　　5、违反有关规定不适宜报考的。
　　*六、岗位薪酬及待遇参考（具体根据工作能力和业绩为主）
　　1.项目工程师岗薪酬：高级工程师13000元/人/月，试用期3个月，试用期间按照80%发放；中级工程师11000元/人/月，试用期3个月，试用期间按照80%发放；
　　2.助理工程师岗薪酬：助理工程师6000元/人/月，试用期3个月，试用期间按照80%发放；
　　3.项目财务岗薪酬：5000元/人/月，试用期3个月，试用期内按照80%发放；
　　4.驻岛补贴按照三沙市驻岛补助标准发放。*
　　七、招聘程序
　　事业单位公开招聘人员工作按照发布招聘信息、报名、资格审查、领取准考证、笔试、面试、考察、体检、公示、聘用等程序组织实施。
　　1.报名方式：采取网络报名或现场报名方式，应聘者只能选择一种报名方式，不得多头报名。一是现场报名需填写报名登记表；二是网络报名需下载报名登记表（附件1），并填写后发送邮件至邮箱gygbca@163.com。邮件标题为“应聘岗位+姓名”。
　　2.现场报名时间：2017年3月8日至2017年3月15日止（早上8：00-12:00、下午14:30-17:30）
　　现场报名地点：海口市龙华区坡巷路（黎隆假日酒店4楼407）
　　3.网络报名时间：2017年3月8日至12日止
　　网络报名邮箱：gygbca@163.com。
　　4.报名要求：考生需携带户口薄、第二代身份证、学历证书及相应岗位要求提供的其他证书（以上证件均要求同时提供原件和复印件,原件审核后当场退回），近期2寸免冠照片4张，到报名点领取报名表。网络报名的将以上资料上传并压缩后发送到指定报名邮箱;每位报考人员只能填报一个招聘岗位，多报无效;委培、定向、及在编在岗人员，须征得原委培、定向单位、工作单位同意，提交原单位同意报名和流动的意见书。
　　5.报名注意事项
　　资格审查工作贯穿于公开招聘的全过程，应聘者报名登记表所填写内容及提交的材料必须真实、准确，凡发现报考者与报名资格条件不符以及提供虚假材料的，随时取消考试、录用资格。报名材料不退还。
　　（一）组织考试
　　考试包括笔试和面试，笔试和面试满分均为100分。经初步筛选后，各岗位招聘人数和报名人数应达到1：3的比例方可进行笔试，未达到招聘比例的，可适当减少招聘人数。根据笔试情况和岗位报考情况，划定笔试合格分数线。通过资格审查，符合考试条件的人员凭本人居民身份证到现场报名地址领取准考证。
　　1、笔试时间：2017年3月16日（具体时间、地点以准考证为准）；
　　2、笔试内容：笔试采取闭卷方式进行,内容为公文写作和相关专业知识组成。(公文写作占笔试总成绩40%；相关专业知识占笔试总成绩的60%)。笔试成绩按照“四舍五入法”，综合成绩折算精确到小数点后两位，通过三沙市政府网公布。
　　3、面试：在笔试合格分数线上，各岗位按1：3的比例从高到低确定面试对象，最低不低于1：2的比例。达不到面试比例的岗位，按实际合格人数确定面试人员，并适当减少招聘人数，择优录取。面试内容为专业基础知识、综合分析、人际关系协调、语言表达能力等。面试合格分数线为60分。面试人员凭笔试使用的准考证和身份证进入考场，准时参加考试，逾期未到，视为自动放弃面试资格。面试成绩按照“四舍五入法”，综合成绩折算精确到小数点后两位。
　　4、面试结束后，按笔试成绩的40%和面试成绩60%综合计算考试总成绩。综合成绩在市政府网进行公布。
　　（二）考察、体检
　　根据综合成绩，按各岗位拟招聘人数1：1的比例确定考察人选，招聘工作领导小组组成考察组到原用人单位对拟录用人员在综合工作能力、思想政治表现、道德品质等方面进行综合考察。根据考察情况确定体检人选，体检标准参照公务员录用标准执行。考察、体检不合格的，取消拟聘人选资格，空缺的招聘名额，可从报考同一岗位考试成绩在合格分数线以上人员中从高分到低分依次递补。
　　（三）录用
　　根据考试、考察、体检结果确定拟录用人员，并在市政府网公示，公示时间七个工作日。公示期满，没有问题或者反映的问题不影响聘用的，确定拟聘用人员，办理聘用手续。
　　（四）聘用
　　聘用：1.应聘者报考被录用，与项目办直接签订劳务合同；试用期3个月包括在劳动合同期限内，试用期考核不合格的，解除劳动用工关系。
　　八、纪律要求
　　公开招聘工作严格执行《海南省事业单位公开招聘人员实施办法》（琼人社发〔2011〕100号）的各项纪律规定，严格执行公开招聘工作人员实施招聘；公开招聘工作接受同级人力资源和社会保障部门、纪检部门指导和监督，自觉接受群众监督。
　　九、其他事项
　　本招聘方案由永乐群岛管理委员会项目办公室负责解释。

　　附件1：职责岗位表
　　附件2：三沙市项目办公开招聘人员报名登记表

　　联系人：13876652998
　　联系电话：0898-66811961 传真：0898-66811961
　　三沙市纪检监督电话：66775197

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## samsara

*Why Trump Should Avoid a Showdown in the South China Sea*

*By Mark J. Valencia - The National Interest, March 20, 2017*

There has been a spate of recent proposals for aggressive U.S. military action challenging China’s claims and actions in the South China Sea. A prime example is “Standing Up to China Is Not Extremism—It’s Smart Foreign Policy,” by *James Holmes* and *Toshi Yoshihara*.





Professor James Holmes and Professor Toshi Yoshihara, both are the former lecturers at the Naval War College (NWC)

According to Holmes and Yoshihara, the new administration “must relearn the art of deterrence, and to deter Chinese aggression the administration must accept that hazards come with the territory.” For them, such deterrence “involves fielding military power sufficient to make good on the threat, whether the requisite capabilities be nuclear or conventional. And it involves convincing the antagonist we’re resolute about making good on our threats.”

They then go on to argue that time-worn canard: that all the United States wants is to preserve the “freedom of the sea.” But China argues that it is not challenging U.S. freedom of navigation itself but U.S. abuse of this right in its exclusive economic zones. The activities of the United States’ intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance assets include active “tickling” of China’s coastal defenses to provoke and observe a response, interference with shore-to-ship and submarine communications, “preparation of the battlefield” using legal subterfuge to evade the scientific research consent regime and tracking of China’s new nuclear submarines for potential targeting as they enter and exit Yulin Naval Base. In China’s view, these are not passive intelligence-collection activities commonly undertaken and tolerated by most states, nor are they uses of the ocean for peaceful purposes, as required by United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS). Instead, they are intrusive and controversial practices that China regards as a threat of use of force.

What Holmes and Yoshihara *neglect to mention* is that because the convention was a “*package deal*,” *non-ratifiers like the United States cannot credibly or legitimately pick and choose which UNCLOS provisions they wish to abide by, deem them customary law and unilaterally interpret and enforce them to their benefit.* This is especially true regarding the exclusive economic zones regime, which the convention introduces as sui generis and which does have some freedom-of-navigation restrictions. This includes the duty to pay “due regard” to the rights of the coastal state, including its marine scientific research consent and environmental-protection regimes. *Clearly, China and the United States disagree on the meaning of key terms in UNCLOS relevant to the freedom of navigation*, which are not defined in the convention. These terms include “_other internationally lawful uses of the sea_,” “_abuse of rights_,” ”_due regard_,” “_peaceful use/purpose_” and “_marine scientific research._”

According to Holmes and Yoshihara, “Statesmen of yore made Moscow a believer in American power and resolve—and largely held the line against communism.” Really? Well, whether or not this assertion is valid, it certainly reveals the nostalgic mindset of the authors. The Cold War between the United States and the Soviet Union is over. We are now in the twenty-first century and experiencing the vagaries and complexities of an increasingly multipolar world in which U.S. soft and hard power have relatively declined. It seems Holmes and Yoshihara have some waking up and catching up to do.

Holmes and Yoshihara warn: “If Beijing and Washington want nonnegotiable things a lot, then the Trump administration must gird itself for a long standoff.” But the authors are not advocating a standoff. Instead, they argue for risk-taking in the form of military confrontation. Indeed, they are proposing actions that will likely lead to conflict and even war. But risk-taking—if necessary—can be in many forms and spheres, including in the economic and political/diplomatic spheres, not solely in the military sphere.

The events of the past few months have already caused serious damage to the U.S.-China relationship as well as prospects for security and stability in the region. Whatever trust existed between China and the United States has been eroded. Now, there is a lack of clarity regarding U.S. policy towards China. China’s President Xi Jinping is coming up for “reappointment” in October 2017. He is likely to be especially inflexible on these issues in order to ward off criticism from hard-liners. Already the Chinese military is calling for China to “be prepared to throw punches” regarding increasing U.S. intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance probes from the sea. Certainly, internal political developments in China “cannot form the basis of US foreign policy,” but they should be a factor in the choice of timing and tactics. In this political environment, following Holmes and Yoshihara’s advice would likely lead to political and even military disaster.

What worries me most—and should worry others about this and similar proposals—is that Holmes and Yoshihara are essentially calling for military confrontation and, if necessary, war, even nuclear war. Following their advice would not only threaten the security of the United States and Japan—but that of the entire region and beyond.


Look at some interesting educated comments posted at the article link:
http://nationalinterest.org/blog/why-trump-should-avoid-showdown-the-south-china-sea-19834?page=show
_

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_
SEE: Authors Explore the Growing Sea Power of China (2011)

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## GS Zhou

kecho said:


> China had illegally invaded and occupied Islands of Vietnam in 1974, 1988. China is aggressor.


What we did is just to get back our own islands that illegally occupied by Vietnam.



kecho said:


> Regretfully, only USA can punish you !


To put the hope on US military? Haha, I love your idea!

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## cochine

GS Zhou said:


> To put the hope on US military? Haha, I love your idea!
> View attachment 386205



China can bully small neighbors only and steal Islands and Reefs of them, US will punish you for rules of international law, just look at how US control Taiwan.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## terranMarine

kecho said:


> Big china, big liar !
> 
> Vietnam had claimed and controlled the sea territory on Hoàng Sa and Trường Sa many hundred year ago by Vietnam's dynasties , without troubles with China inthe past. Your ancestor had recognized that there is Jiao Zhi Yang (Vietnam Sea).
> 
> 
> 
> China can bully small neighbors only and steal Islands and Reefs of them, US will punish you for rules of international law, just look at how US control Taiwan.



You have been caught with your pants down all the time for lying. It is no surprise your continuous barking will earn you no respect here on this forum. Only a couple of countries voice their support for PH while the majority sided with China. There goes your mumble jumbo "the world sides with the PH or support the PCA ruling crap". Your falsely presented the PCA as part of the UN, you post some black and white photo which could have been taken inside Vietnam, nothing you present is proof. Constant lies will earn you nothing and your wishful thinking of ASEAN vs China or US/JP/PH/IN/VN alliance vs China are crumbling down before your own eyes. When you can't find any latest news about SCS you post old articles just to stay on top of this thread after Chinese members posted the latest development news. In case you haven't noticed Trump is too busy with DPRK and other important policies, so far he has not commented anything on SCS that should tell you something. Keep on dreaming the US will declare war on China so you can swallow up the islands (not gonna happen). VN is now lonely facing the Juggernaut all by herself.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## GS Zhou

kecho said:


> US will punish you


The Asian-face gentleman below is the last Vietnamese that putting all hope on US. 

Good luck!





South Vietnam President Ngo Dinh Diem shaking hands with US President Eisenhower.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## shjliu

kecho said:


> Big china, big liar !
> 
> Vietnam had claimed and controlled the sea territory on Hoàng Sa and Trường Sa many hundred year ago by Vietnam's dynasties , without troubles with China inthe past. Your ancestor had recognized that there is Jiao Zhi Yang (Vietnam Sea).
> 
> 
> 
> China can bully small neighbors only and steal Islands and Reefs of them, US will punish you for rules of international law, just look at how US control Taiwan.


can you show some proof of those island belong to Vietnam many hunderd years ago? I for one would really like to see it! TIA

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## samsara

kecho said:


> China had illegally invaded and occupied Islands of Vietnam in 1974, 1988. China is aggressor. Regretfully, only USA can punish you !


The US may be willing to engage in the real hot war against China for those islands/islets/atolls provided the VIE & PHI are willing to serve as their cannon fodders... the American people don't want their soldiers to shed their blood for contesting those remote objects, they aren't of the American public interest at all!

Will you then enlist as a voluntary expendable, @kecho or any other enthusiast here?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cochine

shjliu said:


> can you show some proof of those island belong to Vietnam many hunderd years ago? I for one would really like to see it! TIA



 Paracel Islands is part of Vietnam's territory from 1600s year in the past.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## GS Zhou

kecho said:


> Paracel Islands is part of Vietnam's territory from 1600s year in the past.


what a ridiculous proof! A typical Kecho way for cheating on PDF.

the map you quoted comes from a book originally written in Chinese. The picture you put said the name of the book is: 天南四致路图书全集





Meanwhile, in another website organized by Vietnam government, nghiencuubiendong.vn, the same book is called as: 天南四志路图书募集. So the question is, for such an important ancient book to support Vietnam's claim on South China Sea, why we even don't know what is its exact name?? A book with suspicious/unclear name, how can it be cited as a reliable source to support the VN claim?

What makes this joke more ridiculous is, for such a critical book, we unfortunately do not know where is the original version of the book!! Needless to say what is the exact original content of the book. Again from the same Vietnam government webpage, the website said "the books we read today, no matter in Vietnam or outside Vietnam, are *all replicated versions that created by the later generations*"! 






Replicated versions that created by the later generations!!! Haha, every one can add his/her own flavor to the book during every round of replicate. If VCP gives me $1B, I can create a new version of the book, with content that claiming Kunming belongs to Vietnam too.

http://nghiencuubiendong.vn/cn/basi...ocation-and-geography/721-2012-02-11-19-43-24

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## TaiShang

*Air cushioned landing craft makes its way to beach-head*
(China Military Online) 14:36, March 24, 2017





A Type 726 Yuyi class landing craft, air cushion (LCAC) attached to a landing ship flotilla of the South China Sea Fleet under the PLA Navy makes its way to the beach-head during a landing exercise *at an undisclosed sea area of the South China Sea* on March 21, 2017. (81.cn/ Gan Jun)

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## shjliu

kecho said:


> Paracel Islands is part of Vietnam's territory from 1600s year in the past.


any other proof? this is not proof enough, as stated above.
in my opinion, both countries (VN CHN) can bring lots of "proofs", but neither one of the countries will finally say "OK" it belongs to you! so why fight for the ownership now? just talk about cooperate and develop the area together? unless you have a better suggestion? btw, going to war is not a better suggestion ! so you know!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cochine

shjliu said:


> any other proof? this is not proof enough, as stated above.
> in my opinion, both countries (VN CHN) can bring lots of "proofs", but neither one of the countries will finally say "OK" it belongs to you! so why fight for the ownership now? just talk about corporate develop the area together? unless you have a better suggestion? btw, going to war is not a better suggestion ! so you know!



Soveregnity of Vietnam over Paracel and Spratly Islandes is stated in many History Clonical Books printed in Vietnam from long time ago. I can líst such books here for you:
_
Toản tập Thiên Nam tứ chí lộ đồ thư _纂集天南四至路圖書_, Toản tập An Nam lộ _纂集安南路, v.v... 2/ Thư tịch về lịch sử, địa chí, hội điển, v.v... có thể kể như: _Đại Việt sử ký tục biên _大越史記續編_, Phủ biên tạp lục _撫編雜錄_,_ _Khâm định Đại Nam hội điển sự lệ _欽定大南會典事例_, Lịch triều hiến chương loại chí _歷朝憲章類誌_, Hoàng Việt địa dư _黃越地與_, Đại Nam nhất thống chí _*大南一統志*, _Đại Nam thực lục _大南實錄_, Quốc triều chính biên toát yếu _國朝正編撮要, _Việt sử cương giám khảo lược _越史綱監考略_, _v.v... 3/ Các tập công văn, chiếu, tấu, biểu, sớ, v.v... có thể kể như: _Châu bản triều Nguyễn _阮朝硃本, v.v.

In fact, Vietnam has been establishing sovereignty Administrative on such Islands in SCS long time ago.

Why China hás clamed our Islands recently ? I think China believe that she is stronger than Vietnam, so China can steal our Islands with force. This is the nuture of dispute in East Sea of Vietnam.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## shjliu

kecho said:


> Soveregnity of Vietnam over Paracel and Spratly Islandes is stated in many History Clonical Books printed in Vietnam from long time ago. I can líst such books here for you:
> _
> Toản tập Thiên Nam tứ chí lộ đồ thư _纂集天南四至路圖書_, Toản tập An Nam lộ _纂集安南路, v.v... 2/ Thư tịch về lịch sử, địa chí, hội điển, v.v... có thể kể như: _Đại Việt sử ký tục biên _大越史記續編_, Phủ biên tạp lục _撫編雜錄_,_ _Khâm định Đại Nam hội điển sự lệ _欽定大南會典事例_, Lịch triều hiến chương loại chí _歷朝憲章類誌_, Hoàng Việt địa dư _黃越地與_, Đại Nam nhất thống chí _*大南一統志*, _Đại Nam thực lục _大南實錄_, Quốc triều chính biên toát yếu _國朝正編撮要, _Việt sử cương giám khảo lược _越史綱監考略_, _v.v... 3/ Các tập công văn, chiếu, tấu, biểu, sớ, v.v... có thể kể như: _Châu bản triều Nguyễn _阮朝硃本, v.v.
> 
> In fact, Vietnam has been establishing sovereignty Administrative on such Islands in SCS long time ago.
> 
> Why China hás clamed our Islands recently ? I think China believe that she is stronger than Vietnam, so China can steal our Islands with force. This is the nuture of dispute in East Sea of Vietnam.


Thanks for the information regarding reference books, I will check them out slowly.
As I said, war is NOT an Opinion, it will end up lots of dead peoples. Since you have so many reference books saying the islands belongs to Vietnam, it is more reason for Vietnam to sit down and talk with China, isn't it? Again, do you have a better suggestion besides going to war? or going to war is the only way you think can solve the problem?



kecho said:


> Soveregnity of Vietnam over Paracel and Spratly Islandes is stated in many History Clonical Books printed in Vietnam from long time ago. I can líst such books here for you:
> _
> Toản tập Thiên Nam tứ chí lộ đồ thư _纂集天南四至路圖書_, Toản tập An Nam lộ _纂集安南路, v.v... 2/ Thư tịch về lịch sử, địa chí, hội điển, v.v... có thể kể như: _Đại Việt sử ký tục biên _大越史記續編_, Phủ biên tạp lục _撫編雜錄_,_ _Khâm định Đại Nam hội điển sự lệ _欽定大南會典事例_, Lịch triều hiến chương loại chí _歷朝憲章類誌_, Hoàng Việt địa dư _黃越地與_, Đại Nam nhất thống chí _*大南一統志*, _Đại Nam thực lục _大南實錄_, Quốc triều chính biên toát yếu _國朝正編撮要, _Việt sử cương giám khảo lược _越史綱監考略_, _v.v... 3/ Các tập công văn, chiếu, tấu, biểu, sớ, v.v... có thể kể như: _Châu bản triều Nguyễn _阮朝硃本, v.v.
> 
> In fact, Vietnam has been establishing sovereignty Administrative on such Islands in SCS long time ago.
> 
> Why China hás clamed our Islands recently ? I think China believe that she is stronger than Vietnam, so China can steal our Islands with force. This is the nuture of dispute in East Sea of Vietnam.


I just check out the map in _Đại Nam nhất thống chí _*大南一統志, it have land border clearly map out, but no sea border, so this map can not proof these islands belongs to Vietnam, of course it is just first glance, when I have time, I have to go detail with words and so on, since you may already read it, can you point out which page contain the proof, so I don't have to search for it?
the map link:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e3/Dai_Nam_Nhat_Thong_Chi_-_Toan_Ky.jpg*

the book link (page by page readable)
http://lib.nomfoundation.org/collection/1/volume/961/page/1

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## hoangsa74

shjliu said:


> Thanks for the information regarding reference books, I will check them out slowly.
> As I said, war is NOT an Opinion, it will end up lots of dead peoples. Since you have so many reference books saying the islands belongs to Vietnam, it is more reason for Vietnam to sit down and talk with China, isn't it? Again, do you have a better suggestion besides going to war? or going to war is the only way you think can solve the problem?
> 
> 
> I just check out the map in _Đại Nam nhất thống chí _*大南一統志, it have land border clearly map out, but no sea border, so this map can not proof these islands belongs to Vietnam, of course it is just first glance, when I have time, I have to go detail with words and so on, since you may already read it, can you point out which page contain the proof, so I don't have to search for it?
> the map link:
> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e3/Dai_Nam_Nhat_Thong_Chi_-_Toan_Ky.jpg*
> 
> the book link (page by page readable)
> http://lib.nomfoundation.org/collection/1/volume/961/page/1


The spratly is considered by the vietnamese as disputable. However, the paracels is considered as non disputable as the vietnamese has absolute sovereignty over the paracels since the 1600's. We are not talking about some fishermen who discovered it take a dump on it to mark his territory here. Im talking about vietnam putting the paracels on continous administration since the 1600s. In 1816 vietnam even planted the national flag on the paracels. The chinese also violated modern international law by using deadly force to invade a sovereign nation territory in this case the paracels of south vietnam. The vietnamese have made it very clear that they are willing to negotiate on the spratly if the chinese is willing to negotiate on the paracels. However, it is the chinese who refuse to negotiate on the paracels; hence we still have the scs conflict today. Western journalists have been on the band wagon writing load of articles about the spratly scs dispute but none of them has any idea that the root of this dispute is the paracels island, not the spratly. The spratly won't get resolved unless the paracels get resolved first.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## shjliu

hoangsa74 said:


> The spratly is considered by the vietnamese as disputable. However, the paracels is considered as non disputable as the vietnamese has absolute sovereignty over the paracels since the 1600's. We are not talking about some fishermen who discovered it take a dump on it to mark his territory here. Im talking about vietnam putting the paracels on continous administration since the 1600s. In 1816 vietnam even planted the national flag on the parcels. The chinese also violated modern international law by using deadly force to invade a sovereign nation territory in this case the paracels of south vietnam. The vietnamese have made it very clear that they are willing to negotiate on the spratly if the chinese is willing to negotiate on the paracels. However, it is the chinese who refuse to negotiate on the paracels; hence we still have the scs conflict today. Western journalists have been on the band wagon writing load of articles about the spratly scs dispute but none of them has any idea that the root of this dispute is the paracels island, not the spratly. The spratly won't get resolved unless the paracels get resolved first.


that is why I asked for some proof that the parcels belong to Vietnam, in that case, negotiation will be in Vietnam's favor. Regarding China used deadly force to overtake some parcels from Vietnam, I read somewhere, Vietnam did the same to Taiwan occupied island when they are away for the Tai Feng, so this part is even out, don't mention it again, because both side did the same thing. with regarding negotiation, from what I read, it is the other way around, China always tries to talk about border issues, so make a formal request to talk with China, they will not back down, otherwise they will lose face.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cochine

shjliu said:


> Thanks for the information regarding reference books, I will check them out slowly.
> As I said, war is NOT an Opinion, it will end up lots of dead peoples. Since you have so many reference books saying the islands belongs to Vietnam, it is more reason for Vietnam to sit down and talk with China, isn't it? Again, do you have a better suggestion besides going to war? or going to war is the only way you think can solve the problem?



Its reported in Vietnam that China has refused to negociate with Vietnam about Paracel Islands sovereignty, simply china didn't has proof for her claiming. China would like to apply here the aggressive tactic, step by step she will take all Islands of Vietnam in East Sea of Vietnam with force and invasions (China did in 1974 and in 1988). China's plan is that China is master in Asia, she would like to demonstrate her muscle here.



shjliu said:


> I just check out the map in _Đại Nam nhất thống chí _*大南一統志, it have land border clearly map out, but no sea border, so this map can not proof these islands belongs to Vietnam, of course it is just first glance, when I have time, I have to go detail with words and so on, since you may already read it, can you point out which page contain the proof, so I don't have to search for it?
> the map link:
> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e3/Dai_Nam_Nhat_Thong_Chi_-_Toan_Ky.jpg*
> 
> the book link (page by page readable)
> http://lib.nomfoundation.org/collection/1/volume/961/page/1



This map _*Đại Nam nhất thống toàn đồ*_ (tên gốc: 大南ー統全圖) is made in Vietnam in 1834, Paracel and Spratly had drawn in shore of Vietnam, Paracels and Spratly has stated clearly in sea territory of Vietnam.





https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Đại_Nam_nhất_thống_toàn_đồ

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## shjliu

kecho said:


> Its reported in Vietnam that China has refused to negociate with Vietnam about Paracel Islands sovereignty, simply china didn't has proof for her claiming. China would like to apply here the aggressive tactic, step by step she will take all Islands of Vietnam in East Sea of Vietnam with force and invasions (China did in 1974 and in 1988). China's plan is that China is master in Asia, she would like to demonstrate her muscle here.
> 
> 
> 
> This map _*Đại Nam nhất thống toàn đồ*_ (tên gốc: 大南ー統全圖) is made in Vietnam in 1834, Paracel and Spratly had drawn in shore of Vietnam, Paracels and Spratly has stated clearly in sea territory of Vietnam.
> 
> View attachment 387207
> 
> https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Đại_Nam_nhất_thống_toàn_đồ


As I mentioned, Vietnam use force to take some islands as well, so mentioned it is like only Vietnam can do it, but another country cannot do it! regarding sit down and talk, I hear just the opposite story. In my opinion, still try to sit down and talk is the best. 
As for the Map you attached, Hainan Island also in the map, so are you claiming Hainan island is belong to Vietnam as well?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## terranMarine

shjliu said:


> As I mentioned, Vietnam use force to take some islands as well, so mentioned it is like only Vietnam can do it, but another country cannot do it! regarding sit down and talk, I hear just the opposite story. In my opinion, still try to sit down and talk is the best.
> As for the Map you attached, Hainan Island also in the map, so are you claiming Hainan island is belong to Vietnam as well?



Southern Guandong is on that map, must be Vietnam too

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cochine

shjliu said:


> As I mentioned, Vietnam use force to take some islands as well, so mentioned it is like only Vietnam can do it, but another country cannot do it! regarding sit down and talk, I hear just the opposite story. In my opinion, still try to sit down and talk is the best.
> As for the Map you attached, Hainan Island also in the map, so are you claiming Hainan island is belong to Vietnam as well?



1975 South Vietnamese liberation front troopes had taken control Islands from South Vietnam Saigon Goverment' army, mostly there was no fighting, just handed over.

I do agree with you that China and Vietnam have to solve this dispute in East Sea of Vietnam based on rules of international laws and both should respect mutual interests in minds of "win-win" solution.

In the map posted is existed the Hai Nam Island, there is not disputed Island.



terranMarine said:


> Southern Guandong is on that map, must be Vietnam too



This map is for you.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## GS Zhou

kecho said:


> I do agree with you that China and Vietnam have to solve this dispute in East Sea of Vietnam based on rules of international laws and both should respect mutual interests in minds of "win-win" solution.


Respect the international law? What a joke!! You even want to deny the official diplomatic letter from your vice PM.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cochine

GS Zhou said:


> Respect the international law? What a joke!! You even want to deny the official diplomatic letter from your vice PM.
> View attachment 387427



Again, could North Korea agree that Dokdo Island does belong to Japan when Dokdo is in sea territory of South Korea ? any case, this letter is just said about 12 sea coastline related to North Vietnam (VDR) with mainland China's (PRC) sea only, no mentioned about Paracel and Spratly.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## GS Zhou

kecho said:


> Again, could North Korea agree that Dokdo Island does belong to Japan when Dokdo is in sea territory of South Korea ? any case, this letter is just said about 12 sea coastline related to North Vietnam (VDR) with mainland China's (PRC) sea only, no mentioned about Paracel and Spratly.



You've made too many repetitions about your FAKE point that North Vietnam (or Democratic Republic of Vietnam) could not represent Vietnam. Just take a read at your own constitution: The Constitution of Socialist Republic of Vietnam!

As part of the constitution preamble, it said: "President Ho Chi Minh announced the Declaration of Independence, *founding the **Democratic Republic of Vietnam which is now the Socialist Republic of Vietnam.**" *

Clearly, according to your own constitution, although bearing different names, "Socialist Republic of Vietnam" is the *same constitutional entity *to "Democratic Republic of Vietnam". In short, constitutional wise, *"Democratic Republic of Vietnam" = "Socialist Republic of Vietnam". *

Even a less-educated Vietnamese could agree that the Constitution of Socialist Republic of Vietnam is the most critical foundation to the current Vietnam. However, as you are so eager to seeking for excuses to your stealing of China's waters and islands from the South China Sea, I won't be surprised that you even DENY your own constitution. But obviously, a country that even want to deny own constitution, can not be seen as a reliable partner for international law negotiation.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cochine

GS Zhou said:


> You've made too many repetitions about your FAKE point that North Vietnam (or Democratic Republic of Vietnam) could not represent Vietnam. Just take a read at your own constitution: The Constitution of Socialist Republic of Vietnam!
> 
> As part of the constitution preamble, it said: "President Ho Chi Minh announced the Declaration of Independence, *founding the **Democratic Republic of Vietnam which is now the Socialist Republic of Vietnam.**" *
> 
> Clearly, according to your own constitution, although bearing different names, "Socialist Republic of Vietnam" is the *same constitutional entity *to "Democratic Republic of Vietnam". In short, constitutional wise, *"Democratic Republic of Vietnam" = "Socialist Republic of Vietnam". *
> 
> Even a less-educated Vietnamese could agree that the Constitution of Socialist Republic of Vietnam is the most critical foundation to the current Vietnam. However, as you are so eager to seeking for excuses to your stealing of China's waters and islands from the South China Sea, I won't be surprised that you even DENY your own constitution. But obviously, a country that even want to deny own constitution, can not be seen as a reliable partner for international law negotiation.
> 
> View attachment 387431



1.China and North Vietnam signed in to Geneva Acorrd Agreement 1954. There is two state in Vietnam is existed in the world after 1954. Paracel and Spratly does belong to South Vietnam Territory.






2. *The Letter of North Vietnam in 1958 is said about 12 mile coastline of North Vietnam and to mainland China only.* 

3. North Vietnam state govt , in 1958, didn't have right to say about sovereignty of South Vietnam state.


----------



## GS Zhou

GS Zhou said:


> I won't be surprised that you even DENY your own constitution.



See what I predicted? *Our friend Kecho begins to deny his own constitution!*



kecho said:


> China and North Vietnam signed in to Geneva Acorrd Agreement 1954.


Democratic Republic of Vietnam got its legitimacy from the Geneva Accord? Haha, you are making bad joke with your own constitution. According to your own institution, Democratic Republic of Vietnam got its legitimacy from Ho Chi Minh's speech of "Declaration of Independence", and was found on Sept. 2, 1945!







kecho said:


> There is two state in Vietnam is existed in the world after 1954.





kecho said:


> North Vietnam state govt , in 1958, didn't have right to say about sovereignty of South Vietnam state.



You are making very bad joke with your own constitution again. According to your current constitution, South Vietnam, or Republic of Vietnam, does NOT exist at all! Your constitution mentions Ho's Declaration of Independence that was made in 1945, mentions the 1946 constitution and the 1959 constitution. But where is the constitutional place of South Vietnam or Republic of Vietnam?

Take a read at the Constitution of Democratic Republic of Vietnam. The first sentence of the constitutions said: *"Vietnam is a single entity from Lang-Son to Camau. " *Since Vietnam is one single entity, tell us how South Vietnam could be seen as a Sovereign State?

So sad. Your beloved VCP does NOT want to acknowledge the existence of South Vietnam. Your point that Democratic Republic of Vietnam didn't have right to say about sovereignty of South Vietnam state, *equals to deny the past constitutions and current constitution of Vietnam, equals to deny the legitimacy of VCP and the current Vietnam government, implies that you expect for a rebel to kill VCP.*

Constitutional wise, "Democratic Republic of Vietnam" = "Socialist Republic of Vietnam". Unless VCP be expelled from the throne, there is NO chance for you to deny this.







kecho said:


> The Letter of North Vietnam in 1958 is said about 12 mile coastline of North Vietnam and to mainland China only.



Pham Van Dong’s Diplomatic Note said very clear: *Vietnam government recognizes and endorses the decision and statement made by the Government of the People's Republic of China on the territorial waters of China on 4 September 1958. 
*
And regarding the 4 September 1958 statement by China, it said the 12-mile rules *apply to all islands of China, incl. Xisha Islands, Zhongsha Islands, Dongsha Islands, and Nansha Islands. 

-------------------------------------------------------------
中华人民共和国政府关于领海的声明(1958年9月4日)
*
中华人民共和国政府宣布（一）中华人民共和国的领海宽度为12海里。这项规定适用于中华人民共和国的一切领土，包括中国大陆及其沿海岛屿，和同大陆及其沿海岛屿隔有公海的台湾及其周围各岛、澎湖列岛、*东沙群岛、西沙群岛、中沙群岛、南沙群岛*以及其他属于中国的岛屿。

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> See what I predicted? *Our friend Kecho begins to deny his own constitution!*
> 
> 
> Democratic Republic of Vietnam got its legitimacy from the Geneva Accord? Haha, you are making bad joke with your own constitution. According to your own institution, Democratic Republic of Vietnam got its legitimacy from Ho Chi Minh's speech of "Declaration of Independence", and was found on Sept. 2, 1945!
> View attachment 387787
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are making very bad joke with your own constitution again. According to your current constitution, South Vietnam, or Republic of Vietnam, does NOT exist at all! Your constitution mentions Ho's Declaration of Independence that was made in 1945, mentions the 1946 constitution and the 1959 constitution. But where is the constitutional place of South Vietnam or Republic of Vietnam?
> 
> Take a read at the Constitution of Democratic Republic of Vietnam. The first sentence of the constitutions said: *"Vietnam is a single entity from Lang-Son to Camau. " *Since Vietnam is one single entity, tell us how South Vietnam could be seen as a Sovereign State?
> 
> So sad. Your beloved VCP does NOT want to acknowledge the existence of South Vietnam. Your point that Democratic Republic of Vietnam didn't have right to say about sovereignty of South Vietnam state, *equals to deny the past constitutions and current constitution of Vietnam, equals to deny the legitimacy of VCP and the current Vietnam government, implies that you expect for a rebel to kill VCP.*
> 
> Constitutional wise, "Democratic Republic of Vietnam" = "Socialist Republic of Vietnam". Unless VCP be expelled from the throne, there is NO chance for you to deny this.
> View attachment 387783
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pham Van Dong’s Diplomatic Note said very clear: *Vietnam government recognizes and endorses the decision and statement made by the Government of the People's Republic of China on the territorial waters of China on 4 September 1958.
> *
> And regarding the 4 September 1958 statement by China, it said the 12-mile rules *apply to all islands of China, incl. Xisha Islands, Zhongsha Islands, Dongsha Islands, and Nansha Islands.
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------
> 中华人民共和国政府关于领海的声明(1958年9月4日)
> *
> 中华人民共和国政府宣布（一）中华人民共和国的领海宽度为12海里。这项规定适用于中华人民共和国的一切领土，包括中国大陆及其沿海岛屿，和同大陆及其沿海岛屿隔有公海的台湾及其周围各岛、澎湖列岛、*东沙群岛、西沙群岛、中沙群岛、南沙群岛*以及其他属于中国的岛屿。


the letter bears no meaning. only the national assembly has the authority to make decisions on sovereignty.

Can the Taiwanese government give the People of Republic of China as gift to Japan since Taiwan sees itself as the legitimate ruler of entire China?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## samsara

Taiwan restates sovereignty in South China Sea amid dispute with Vietnam

_Taiwan restates sovereignty over Taiping Island following protests from Vietnam_

By Judy Lin, Taiwan News, Staff Writer
2017/03/31 16:54





Taiping Island or known as Itu Abu seen from afar.

TAIPEI (Taiwan News)—Taiwan reiterated its sovereignty over the disputed *Taiping Island (太平島)* in the South China Sea, after Vietnam announced Thursday, such actions seriously impacted maritime safety and security in the East Sea.

In response to Vietnam’s protest, Taiwan’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MOFA) stated Taiping Island is an indispensable territory of the nation, and that the country has irrefutable rights over the island in the South China Sea and surrounding waters based on international and maritime laws.

Taiping Island or more commonly known as Itu Abu internationally is one of the largest naturally formed Spratley Islands in South China Sea.

Taiwan’s MOFA stated the nation’s Coast Guard Administration (CGA) conducted a regular three-day military drill on the island from March 29-31, 2017 that involved firing missiles.

In response to Taiwan’s increasing military actions in the region, Vietnam’s Foreign Ministry’s Spokesperson Le Hai Binh stated the actions “seriously violate Vietnam’s sovereignty over Truong Sa archipelago.”

"It also threatens peace, stability and maritime safety and security in the East Sea, while elevating tension and complicating the situation in the waters,” a Reuters report quoted Le saying.

According to a Taiwan MOFA official, the country’s government is willing to work with countries involved in the South China Sea to promote peace and stability, based on the principles of casting aside disputes, jointly developing resources, and negotiating on an equal footing, stated the official.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## cochine

GS Zhou said:


> See what I predicted? *Our friend Kecho begins to deny his own constitution!*
> 
> 
> Democratic Republic of Vietnam got its legitimacy from the Geneva Accord? Haha, you are making bad joke with your own constitution. According to your own institution, Democratic Republic of Vietnam got its legitimacy from Ho Chi Minh's speech of "Declaration of Independence", and was found on Sept. 2, 1945!
> View attachment 387787
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are making very bad joke with your own constitution again. According to your current constitution, South Vietnam, or Republic of Vietnam, does NOT exist at all! Your constitution mentions Ho's Declaration of Independence that was made in 1945, mentions the 1946 constitution and the 1959 constitution. But where is the constitutional place of South Vietnam or Republic of Vietnam?
> 
> Take a read at the Constitution of Democratic Republic of Vietnam. The first sentence of the constitutions said: *"Vietnam is a single entity from Lang-Son to Camau. " *Since Vietnam is one single entity, tell us how South Vietnam could be seen as a Sovereign State?
> 
> So sad. Your beloved VCP does NOT want to acknowledge the existence of South Vietnam. Your point that Democratic Republic of Vietnam didn't have right to say about sovereignty of South Vietnam state, *equals to deny the past constitutions and current constitution of Vietnam, equals to deny the legitimacy of VCP and the current Vietnam government, implies that you expect for a rebel to kill VCP.*
> 
> Constitutional wise, "Democratic Republic of Vietnam" = "Socialist Republic of Vietnam". Unless VCP be expelled from the throne, there is NO chance for you to deny this.
> View attachment 387783
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pham Van Dong’s Diplomatic Note said very clear: *Vietnam government recognizes and endorses the decision and statement made by the Government of the People's Republic of China on the territorial waters of China on 4 September 1958.
> *
> And regarding the 4 September 1958 statement by China, it said the 12-mile rules *apply to all islands of China, incl. Xisha Islands, Zhongsha Islands, Dongsha Islands, and Nansha Islands.
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------
> 中华人民共和国政府关于领海的声明(1958年9月4日)
> *
> 中华人民共和国政府宣布（一）中华人民共和国的领海宽度为12海里。这项规定适用于中华人民共和国的一切领土，包括中国大陆及其沿海岛屿，和同大陆及其沿海岛屿隔有公海的台湾及其周围各岛、澎湖列岛、*东沙群岛、西沙群岛、中沙群岛、南沙群岛*以及其他属于中国的岛屿。



When both China (PRC) and North Vietnam (VDR) had signed in to Geneva Accord Agreement in 1954, the administrate right of VDR is automatically limited at 17th Pararell at Bến Hải river. In South Vietnam, is under controlled and governed by President Bảo Đại (Vietnam State), later on Ngo Dinh Diem In 1955, Diệm called for a referendum to remove Bảo Đại and establish a Republic Vietnam with Diệm as president, and also with different Law and Constitution, govenor administrate sýstem in South Vietnam, from southern òf 17th Pararall. This ís truth of Vietnam History, my Friend.

So why, in the letter dated 1958, the *North Vietnam PM had intentionally skip Hoang Sa and Truong Sa name* from his statement (Island does belong to South Vietnam in time 1954 -1975) in his diplomtaic letter.

Declaration òf independence Vietnam ís still valid up to nơw aday, Vietnamese people have fight in new battle (diplomatically) counter all foreigner occupation in our sea territory with Taiwan (ROC) and Mainland China (PRC) and partly by Phil.

*Pls don't twisted mỏre about nature òf the diplomatic latter dated 1958*, my friend.


----------



## samsara

*In-depth*
*Truth about South China Sea dispute: expert
*
English.news.cn 2014-06-14 14:01:11

BEIJING, June 14 (Xinhua) -- Vietnam says it has evidence to prove its claim in the South China Sea but is ignoring its own historical documents that vindicate China's position, *Ling Dequan*, *a researcher with Center for World Affairs Studies affiliated to Xinhua*, said on Saturday.

The following is *the full text of Ling's article* titled "*The truth about the sea dispute*" and published on China Daily on Saturday:

Vietnam says it has evidence to prove its claim in South China Sea but is ignoring own historical documents that vindicate China's position. Vietnam has been using China-Vietnam clashes in the South China Sea, and distorting facts, fanning passions and playing up the "China threat" theory, to vilify China. Ignoring the overall development of Beijing-Hanoi relationship, Vietnam is pretending to be a "victim" in the South China Sea dispute, saying it is prepared to seek international arbitration on the issue.

Vietnamese leaders have said that they have enough historical evidence to justify Vietnam's sovereignty over "Huangsha" and "Changsha" islands, claiming that Vietnam has been the "master" of the two islands since the 17th century. It seems like they have lifted their remarks straight out of a *white paper* "*Truth of China-Vietnam Relationship over 30 Years*", issued by the Vietnamese Foreign Ministry *in 1979* when bilateral ties were not normal. *Worse, almost all the arguments in that 1979 document were copied from a "white paper" issued by the Saigon-based puppet South Vietnam regime (or the Republic of Vietnam) in February 1974.*

Now the Vietnamese leaders, using the so-called historical documents, are trying to claim that Vietnam's "Huangsha" and "Changsha" islands are actually China's Xisha Islands and Nansha Islands. The fact is that, the islands recorded in Vietnamese documents refer to some other islands surrounding Vietnam instead of the Xisha and Nansha islands.

*To encroach on China's territory in the 1970s, the South Vietnam regime distorted historical facts, which were adopted by later Vietnamese leaders for political purposes. This has complicated the issue and caused serious damage to Sino-Vietnamese ties.*

*A look at the evidence presented in China's diplomatic documents in the late 1970s and early 1980s will reveal the truth. In fact, even some Vietnamese scholars have said that the documents cited by Vietnam to claim sovereignty over the Xisha and Nansha islands are not genuine historical records but edited versions of originals, confirming China's sovereignty over the islands.*

Vietnamese leaders said China forcibly occupied the entire "Huangsha Islands" in 1974, which were then controlled by the Saigon regime. The Saigon regime had kicked up a row over the naval battle that broke out in 1974 in the waters around China's Xisha Islands and sought military support from its ally, the United States, and requested the UN Security Council's intervention. But neither the US nor the UN Security Council acceded to the Saigon regime's request. This means the international community, including the US, has never believed in Vietnam's complaints or claims.

On Sept 2, 1945, Ho Chi Minh announced the establishment of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam in Hanoi. In January 1950, the People's Republic of China became the first country to establish diplomatic relations with Ho Chi Minh-led Vietnam. For China and a vast majority of the other countries, the government of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam (later the Socialist Republic of Vietnam), was (and has been) *the only legitimate government of Vietnam*, and the government of *South Vietnam, a puppet regime* installed by French colonialists and American imperialists.

*So now, about 39 years after defeating the Americans, why does the Socialist Republic of Vietnam want to use the Saigon regime's claim to create trouble in the South China Sea?* Aren't the current Vietnamese leaders betraying Ho Chi Minh and other freedom fighters, profaning the sacrifice of hundreds of thousands of their compatriots who laid down their lives to resist foreign aggressors, and negating the valued support of their allies in the battle against colonialism by citing the comprador Saigon regime's claim?

*The Vietnamese government must not violate the principle of estoppel in the Xisha and Nansha islands' sovereignty issue. Vietnamese leaders claim that no country recognizes that the Xisha and Nansha islands belong to China. This is a brazen lie, because the Democratic Republic of Vietnam topped the list of countries that accepted China's sovereignty over the islands.*

The Democratic Republic of Vietnam's position was unequivocal in the 1950s and 1960s. The position remained unchanged even after the death of Ho Chi Minh and the end of the Vietnam War in 1975. Documents with the Chinese Foreign Ministry from the 1970s and 1980s show the position of the Ho Chi Minh-led Vietnamese Communist Party on the Xisha and Nansha islands. The most important of these documents is a note given by former Vietnamese premier Pham Van Dong to Zhou Enlai and the declaration of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam in 1965.

*On Sept 4, 1958*, the Declaration of the Government of the People's Republic of China said that the breadth of the territorial sea of the country shall be 12 nautical miles and that this provision *should apply to all territories of the PRC, including all the islands in the South China Sea.* *On Sept 14, 1958, Pham Van Dong solemnly stated in his note to Zhou Enlai that Vietnam recognizes and supports the Declaration of the Government of the PRC on the country's territorial sea. On Sept 22, 1958, the diplomatic note was publicly published in Nhan Dan, the official newspaper of the Vietnamese Communist Party.*

*On May 9, 1965*, the Democratic Republic of Vietnam issued a statement on the US' definition on the "theater of war" in Vietnam. The statement said that by defining the whole of Vietnam and the waters up to 100 nautical miles off its coast as well as part of the territorial sea of China's Xisha Islands as the operational area of the US armed forces, Lyndon Johnson, then US president, has directly threatened the security of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam and its neighbors.

In recent years, however, some Vietnamese government officials and "scholars" *have tried to "reinterpret" the two government documents*, only to end up making fools of themselves. And after their attempts failed, the Vietnamese government *started pretending as if the two documents never existed*.

*Vietnam has said that it is fully prepared with historical and legal evidence to prove its claim in the South China Sea, and it is waiting for the appropriate time to take China to the international court of justice. If that is so, then Vietnam should not forget to attach Pham Van Dong's note and the Democratic Republic of Vietnam's statement, as well as the maps and textbooks published by Vietnam before 1975, with its complaint.*

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/indepth/2014-06/14/c_133407130.htm


*Related:*

*Chinese envoy rebuts Vietnamese, Philippine accusations over South China Sea*

UNITED NATIONS, June 13 (Xinhua) -- A Chinese envoy on Friday forcefully refuted accusations made by Vietnam and the Philippines against China over the South China Sea situation, holding the two countries responsible for any disputes.

At the meeting of state parties to the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) held here, Wang Min, China's deputy permanent representative to the United Nations, slammed Vietname and the Philippines for infringing upon Chinese territory. Full Story

*The Operation of the HYSY 981 Drilling Rig: Vietnam's Provocation and China's Position*

*Video: History of Chinese sovereignty over the Xisha Islands*

*HYSY 981 Drilling Rig: Vietnam's Provocation and China's Position*

BEIJING, June 8 (Xinhua) -- China's Foreign Ministry released an article about the HYSY 981 drilling rig in the Xisha Islands on its website on Sunday. The full text is as follows: Full story

*China sends note to UN chief to clarify Xisha situation*

UNITED NATIONS, June 9 (Xinhua) -- A Chinese envoy on Monday sent a note to UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon, presenting documents making clear Vietnam's provocation and China's stance regarding the Xisha Islands in the South China Sea.

In the note, Wang Min, China's deputy permanent representative to the United Nations, also asked Ban to circulate the documents, as UN General Assembly documents, among all UN member states. Full story

====================================

Seeing on how during the last decade the various governments of Vietnam have been lying outright incl. having some amnesia of the true history related to the Xisha Islands 西沙群岛 (internationally better known as "Paracel Islands") and Nansha Islands 南沙群岛 (better known as "Spratly Islands" internationally), readers should have less wonder if they are also aware of this historical denial by the Vietnamese government.

_IS any reader here aware of the following historical fact that Hồ Chí Minh indeed got married to a Chinese wife? _

#BELOW IS JUST A BRIEF EXCERPT#

The sacrosanct leader of the New Vietnam, *Hồ Chí Minh*, got married to a Chinese woman, *Zeng Xueming （曾雪明）*, known in Vietnamese as *Tăng Tuyết Minh* in 1926.





_*Hồ Chí Minh's wife, Zeng Xueming （曾雪明）aka. Tăng Tuyết Minh*_​
*Zeng Xueming* (Chinese: 曾雪明, 1905–1991), known in Vietnamese as *Tăng Tuyết Minh*, was a Chinese midwife who married Vietnamese leader Hồ Chí Minh. She was a Catholic from Guangzhou and married Ho in October 1926. They lived together until April 1927, when Ho fled China following an anti-communist coup. Ho returned to Vietnam in 1940 to lead the pro-Communist Viet Minh, the communist rebels against the French colonial authorities. He became president of North Vietnam in 1954. Despite several attempts to renew contact by both Zeng and Ho, the couple was never reunited. Ho and Zeng were never legally divorced nor was their marriage ever annulled. *Her existence has never been acknowledged by the Vietnamese government.*

[...]

In May 1950, Zeng saw a picture of Ho in a newspaper and learned that he was now president of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam, which later became the government of North Vietnam. She then sent a message to the DRV ambassador in Beijing. This message was unanswered. She tried again in 1954, but her letter was again unanswered. Representatives of the Chinese government told her to stop trying to contact Ho and promised to provide for her needs. By this time, a cult of personality had arisen around Ho and the North Vietnamese government had an investment in the myth of his celibacy, said to symbolize his total devotion to the revolution. For his part, Ho asked the North Vietnamese consul in Guangzhou to look up Zeng in 1967, but without success. Ho died in September 1969. Zeng retired as a midwife in 1977 and died 14 November 1991 at the age of 86.

*Research and reaction*
The claim that Ho had a Chinese wife first appeared in a book by Chinese author Huang Zheng published in 1987. This claim went unnoticed until the book was translated into Vietnamese in 1990. *Also in 1990, French author Daniel Hémery found Ho's letters to Zeng in the Centre des Archives d’Outre-Mer, the French colonial archive.* In May 1991, the editor-in-chief of _Tuoi Tre_ Vũ Kim Hạnh was summarily dismissed from her post after the newspaper published a story about Ho's marriage. William Duiker's _Ho Chi Minh: A Life_ (2000) presents additional CAOM documentation for the relationship. The government requested substantial cuts in the official Vietnamese translation of Duiker's book, which was refused. In 2002, the Vietnamese government suppressed a review of Duiker's book in the _Far Eastern Economic Review_.

Chu Đức Tính, Director of the Hồ Chí Minh Museum, in an interview with the newspaper _Tuổi Trẻ_ said that he and his colleagues at the museum have debated many times with Huang Zheng, the first person who published about Zeng Xueming's marriage to Ho. He characterized it as a rumor heard on the Internet and concluded that "this is a hypothesis that is more fiction than not" and said "the facts have proven that it is not true."


The legal witnesses of this marriage were the two top women's personalities of the New China: *Cai Chang* （蔡畅) and *Deng Yingchao* （邓颖超 | 鄧穎超）, wife of future Chinese Premier Zhou Enlai.

Zeng was 21 and Ho was 36. The wedding took place in the same building where Zhou had married Deng earlier.

P.S: *Cai Chang was the future President of the All-China Women's Federation* as well as the *future Vice Chairman of the Fifth NPC Standing Committee*.


_Just imagine, with all the historical facts and documents, the govt of Vietnam would still deny such marriage of *Hồ Chí Minh and Zeng Xueming* did exist!!! What one may expect about the South China Sea issues then  LOL

Knowing who were the legal witnesses of this marriage, i.e. *the two of the most influential women in the history of modern China*, not just ordinary personalities, such official denial by the Vietnamese government is becoming even weirder! Showing what a cunning character and lacks of trustworthiness!!_

Note: It was not the fault of Hồ Chí Minh himself regarding his marriage denial, it's the subsequent political and party forces that created a myth around Ho who made such blatant denial, and remains uncorrected until today. Showing about a nation living under myth and lies...

*Read the FULL article here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeng_Xueming*

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## samsara

*China opens S China Sea website*

(Xinhua) Updated: 2016-08-04 07:35

*BEIJING - China on Wednesday opened a website on the South China Sea, complete with historical maps, articles and research, according to the State Oceanic Administration (SOA).*

*Run by the National Marine Data & Information Service, the Chinese language site has 10 sections that cover basic information, news, historical archives, development and management, expert opinion, law and regulations, a timeline of major events, pictures and videos and Q&A.*

"*The South China Sea has drawn huge attention, but some information online is not accurate,*" said Zhang Haiwen, SOA official in charge of international cooperation. "*We hope that this website will enable domestic and overseas people to better understand it and learn about the truth behind the 'dispute' over it.*"

According to Zhang, *the website contains not only maps and archives but also exclusive analysis and expository articles based on experts' research of thousands of maps.*

*Zhang cited that a map often used by Vietnam to prove that it owned the Xisha Islands was actually pieced together by two maps, which have already been obtained by experts and might be used to refute the country's claim.*

Zhang said new findings will be published on the website once verified.

According to the SOA, information on the website must first be reviewed by an expert panel and be "comprehensive, authoritative, detailed and accurate."

"*The website is founded with the aim of positively publicizing our policies, claims, historical proof, legal basis and international cooperation while serving as a reliable channel for domestic and overseas government departments, research groups and individuals to learn about the South China Sea,*" said SOA spokesman Shi Qingfeng.

*The website has now six domain names, including www.thesouthchinasea.org and www.china-nanhai.org, due to "information unification and security concerns," according to the SOA.*

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2016-08/04/content_26338101.htm

------------------------------------------


Any poster here who wants to quote the China's official standing on the South China Sea (maps, references, historical facts, analyses, etc) is strongly suggested TO REFER to below OFFICIAL, AUTHORITATIVE websites for the relevant resources.
*@terranMarine ; @GS Zhou ; @TaiShang *


*China's Official Website on the South China Sea*

Managed by the State Oceanic Administration







*中国南海网*
*http://www.thesouthchinasea.org/*

*中国南海网*
*http://www.china-nanhai.org/*

*国家海洋局南海分局*
*http://www.scsb.gov.cn/scsb/index.shtml*


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


@kecho - I won't bother to address your "rubber-style" posts any further... it seems you can post _anything_ *with impunity here* to prop your make-believe ideas, even such RIDICULOUSLY HILARIOUS remark such as "*China was a puppet regime of the USSR*" ==> thus it's useless to address further any trolling post as such!! What a waste of time 

About the Hồ Chí Minh and Zeng Xueming marriage, your so-called "fabricated Chinese propaganda"

... thus the France assisted China in promoting this propaganda by keeping the Ho's letters to Zeng in the Centre des Archives d’Outre-Mer, the French colonial archive as mentioned by French author Daniel Hémery in 1990.


I am amazed on the capabilities of the Vietnamese rulers to coin a new history of their own version, whitewashing the historical facts 

At the end let's see on how the realities work in the South China Sea  I do believe that China should have known the characters of VIE ruling class very well thus it won't get cheated any more.

I will take the de jure and/or de facto islands/islets/atolls possessions as the only importance and relevant aspect.... plus of course the capability to defend and develop them... any other things such as word exchanges are good for mental satisfaction only... and moreover the actual developments there are the only thing that will give values to such ownership... all others are just noises across the giant waves in the vast South China Sea...

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## cochine

samsara said:


> About the Hồ Chí Minh and Zeng Xueming marriage, your so-called "fabricated Chinese propaganda"
> 
> ... thus the France assisted China in promoting this propaganda by keeping the Ho's letters to Zeng in the Centre des Archives d’Outre-Mer, the French colonial archive as mentioned by French author Daniel Hémery in 1990.
> 
> 
> I am amazed on the capabilities of the Vietnamese rulers to coin a new history of their own version, whitewashing the historical facts



As human being, Hồ Chí Minh could had Chinese girl friend in China in the past, it was normal life of people every where in this world. 

When you can not show the marriage certificate here, its fake info... pls don't fabricating and spread such meaningless cooked cabbages for insult ơn Hồ Chí Minh here on this forum, I will do with the same manner on your Chinese leaders, like Mao Zedong etc...when you do not stop it.


----------



## Globenim

kecho said:


> 1.China and North Vietnam signed in to Geneva Acorrd Agreement 1954. There is two state in Vietnam is existed in the world after 1954. Paracel and Spratly does belong to South Vietnam Territory.





kecho said:


> When both China (PRC) and North Vietnam (VDR) had signed in to Geneva Accord Agreement in 1954, the administrate right of VDR is automatically limited at 17th Pararell at Bến Hải river.



I think you are the one mixing some up some history here.

1) No intent: If you check out the negotiations preceeding the Geneva agreement of 1954 pretty much every party refused a division of the country. 

2) No ruling: The agreement was over a defacto division of/in the country to seperate zones until elections would decide who would govern the country, not a division into two seperate sovereign states. Different things. With the conclusion of the agreement, there was still just one state of Vietnam. 

There is no interpretation room to assume someone might have "intended" a division into two states in the Geneva agreement or in other words signing off the Geneva Agreement implies recognizing and respecting Vietnam as one whole state that is simply just internaly divided. Not like that stops people from trying to make contrary claims.

The later division into the two states of North and South Vietnam(Republic of Vietnam), not just the zones North and South Vietnam as they where known for for about a decade even before the Geneva Agreement 1954, was a consequence of the failure of the Geneva Agreement. Signing off the Geneva Agreement has nothing to do with that anymore.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cochine

Globenim said:


> I think you are the one mixing some up some history here.
> 
> 1) No intent: If you check out the negotiations preceeding the Geneva agreement of 1954 pretty much every party refused a division of the country.
> 
> 2) No ruling: The agreement was over a defacto division of/in the country to seperate zones until elections would decide who would govern the country, not a division into two seperate sovereign states. Different things. With the conclusion of the agreement, there was still just one state of Vietnam.
> 
> There is no interpretation room to assume someone might have "intended" a division into two states in the Geneva agreement or in other words signing off the Geneva Agreement implies recognizing and respecting Vietnam as one whole state that is simply just internaly divided. Not like that stops people from trying to make contrary claims.
> 
> The later division into the two states of North and South Vietnam(Republic of Vietnam), not just the zones North and South Vietnam as they where known for for about a decade even before the Geneva Agreement 1954, was a consequence of the failure of the Geneva Agreement. Signing off the Geneva Agreement has nothing to do with that anymore.



You have mixed truth of history with the propaganda. 

When North Vietnam (VDR) and mainland China (PRC) signed in to Geneva Accords. Automatically, this official international aggreement is binding on you. In fact, Ngô Đình Diệm had taken power as State President in South Vietnam by general referendum in 1955. This is truth of Vietnam History, there was two state were existed in Vietnam from 1954 up to 1975.


----------



## samsara

*Sunset scenery of South China Sea - Xinhua 2017-03-31*

























​

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cochine

Last update 15:06 | 30/03/2017

*Vietnam protests Taiwan’s live-fire drill in Vietnam’s waters*
_Vietnam resolutely protests against Taiwan (China)’s live-fire drill in waters around Ba Binh in Vietnam’s Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelago and demands that Taiwan not to repeat such activity, stated Foreign Ministry’s Spokesperson Le Hai Binh on March 30._


_



_

_Foreign Ministry’s Spokesperson Le Hai Binh_



Responding to reporters’ queries on Vietnam’s reaction to Taiwan’s live-fire exercise in Ba Binh waters, Binh declared that the move “seriously violates Vietnam’s sovereignty over Truong Sa archipelago.”

“It also threatens peace, stability and maritime safety and security in the East Sea, while elevating tension and complicating the situation in the waters,” he said.

The spokesperson reiterated that Vietnam has all sufficient historical evidence and legal foundation proving the country’s sovereignty over Hoang Sa (Paracel) and Truong Sa archipelagoes.

_VNA_


----------



## Globenim

kecho said:


> You have mixed truth of history with the propaganda.
> 
> When North Vietnam (VDR) and mainland China (PRC) signed in to Geneva Accords. Automatically, this official international aggreement is binding on you. In fact, Ngô Đình Diệm had taken power as State President in South Vietnam by general referendum in 1955. This is truth of Vietnam History, there was two state were existed in Vietnam from 1954 up to 1975.



In Vietnam History many things happend after the Geneva Accords. That doesnt mean China signed off everything with the Geneva Accords. I never said anything about the validity of the signature per se nor denied that later on two states existed, I actually explained that. Stop missconstruing the post I made like some propaganda drone.

In simple words again, because you just keep parotting the same false "facts": 
The Genevaa Accords agreement 1945 did not partition Vietnam into two states, nor did the signatories intend to do so, the partition was two zones in one state. The two states came to be after the agreement was made, not because but in defiance and contradiction of what was agreed upon. You entire argument fails on this point. Hence **** your dishonest claim that China signed off whatever you want.

Read my previous post before you deny it again. Im not going to run in circles and repeat myself endlessly to refute you claims.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cochine

Globenim said:


> In Vietnam History many things happend after the Geneva Accords. That doesnt mean China signed off everything with the Geneva Accords. I never said anything about the validity of the signature per se nor denied that later on two states existed, I actually explained that. Stop missconstruing the post I made like some propaganda drone.
> 
> In simple words again, because you just keep parotting the same false "facts":
> The Genevaa Accords agreement 1945 did not partition Vietnam into two states, nor did the signatories intend to do so, the partition was two zones in one state. The two states came to be after the agreement was made, not because but in defiance and contradiction of what was agreed upon. You entire argument fails on this point. Hence **** your dishonest claim that China signed off whatever you want.
> 
> Read my previous post before you deny it again. Im not going to run in circles and repeat myself endlessly to refute you claims.



Vietnam is one country but was divided in two zone or two part, is the same. The first Vietnam war (1946-1954) is the fighting between Communists (Việt Minh - Vietnam Democratic Republic goverment headed by Hồ Chí Minh) and Nationalists (State of Vietnam goverment, headed by former Nguyen Dynasty Vietnam's Emperor Bảo Đại as President) with direct military interference of France Goverment.

Its reported that in Genava Conference 1954, China (PRC) is invited. And China for yourselves, on June 23, Mendès France secretly met with Zhou Enlai at the French Embassy in Bern, _Zhou outlined the Chinese position that an immediate ceasefire was required, the three nations should be treated separately (Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam), and recognition that two governments existed in Vietnam_.

China PRC and Vietnam VDR had signed in Geneva Accord Agreement dated 7 April 1954. China was known well about the true history. There was two part of Vietnam is existed with two different goverment, is governed in two separated territory, with border line at Pararell 17 at Benhai river, from 1954 to 1975. it does mean that in the time, there is two state was in Vietnam, like the situation in Korea now.

link here: Logevall, Fredrik (2012). _Embers of War: The Fall of an Empire and the Making of America's Vietnam_. random House


----------



## Star Expedition

The USA thinks our south sea is a place to show his power. 
He perhaps also knows it is a stage for he to perform the last ballet.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cochine

Star Expedition said:


> The USA thinks our south sea is a place to show his power.
> He perhaps also knows it is a stage for he to perform the last ballet.



The communiqué included in Shanghai 1972, when was an important diplomatic document issued by the ÚSA and China PRC on February 28, 1972 during President Nixon's visit to China. The US and China also agreed that neither they nor any other power should "_seek hegemony in the Asia-Pacific region_".

China invaded in to Paracel 1974 and 1988, and also made artifact íslands there. China is violated the agreement dated 1972 to seek hegemony in the Asia-Pacific region.


----------



## shjliu

kecho said:


> The communiqué included in Shanghai 1972, when was an important diplomatic document issued by the ÚSA and China PRC on February 28, 1972 during President Nixon's visit to China. The US and China also agreed that neither they nor any other power should "_seek hegemony in the Asia-Pacific region_".
> 
> China invaded in to Paracel 1974 and 1988, and also made artifact íslands there. China is violated the agreement dated 1972 to seek hegemony in the Asia-Pacific region.


The pot is calling kettle black, as an example, Spratly Island, Vietnam rob it over from Taiwan in 1973, start building "artificial island" to enlarge the size.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## initial_d

Star Expedition said:


> The USA thinks our south sea is a place to show his power.
> He perhaps also knows it is a stage for he to perform the last ballet.


So why not your mighty PLA NAVY stop US Navy in south china sea? ?!! LOLs...... 
We know that china navy don't have the ball againts monsterous US Navy, china only dare bullying small country such as the phillipine and Vietnam... 
China military says aware of U.S. carrier in South China Sea

China's defense ministry said on Thursday it was aware of the presence of a U.S. aircraft carrier strike group in the South China Sea and China respected freedom of navigation for all countries in the waters there.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-so...-idUSKBN1620YO

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TaiShang

Beautiful Yongxing

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## samsara

*The South China Sea: From reef to island*















*@xinfengcao* 2017.04.01

*BUILD, BUILD... *
_either for civilian facilities or for defense purposes or for both...._

*This is the only thing that matters*, how to develop those islands/islets/atolls... to fill in, give the substances, make use and grow those beautiful, pristine resources into something beneficial, inhabitable, and of course  defendable possessions, just imagine on some unsinkable giant carriers!

China has all the needed resources, technology, money, capabilities and strong will to turn those islands / islets / atolls in the South China Sea into the new lively paradises and strongholds... that not even The Empire is able to interfere and obstruct... aside from those hollow words exchanges or at most having some warship fleet showdowns [for the time being only; there will be time even such superficial showdown will be too costly]...while it's loitering there burning out gases and vigors China keeps on building, quietly...  the rest are merely noises across the giant waves of the South China Sea.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## grey boy 2

*The “strategic triangle” that would allow Beijing to control the South China Sea*
*"We got you all covered" *

Yoji Koda, a former vice admiral in the Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force, wrote in the journal Asia Policy in January that the strategic triangle “could be a game changer in regional power relations.”
On a map it showed a ring around each point of the triangle, showing the approximate range of Chinese fighter jets. The overlapping rings easily cover most of the South China Sea (note that Woody Island below is part of the Paracels):
The triangle could also help China with establishing an air defense identification zone (ADIZ) over the sea, requiring foreign aircraft to notify Chinese authorities in advance of flights.
https://qz.com/775382/all-eyes-are-...allow-beijing-to-control-the-south-china-sea/

被称为“南沙铁三角”的永暑礁、渚碧礁、美济礁，已建成大型机场，都是3000米跑道的大型机场，可起降远程战斗机和大型轰炸机。三者互为犄角，又可同时向周边覆盖。

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## cochine

*US Navy deploys Surface Action Group to Western Pacific*

April 2, 2017 Joel Dizon World 0

ShareTweet


The United States Navy Third Fleet has deployed a two-warship Sterett-Dewey Surface Action Group (Sterett-Dewey SAG) March 31 to Western Pacific. The SAG has departed San Diego.

“The command staff of Destroyer Squadron (DESRON) 31 and the guided-missile destroyers USS Sterett (DDG 104) and USS Dewey (DDG 105) will deploy with the embarked helicopter detachments from Helicopter Maritime Squadron (HSM) 49 and HSM 78,” 3rd Fleet Public Affairs said.

Though the Western Pacific is under US Navy Seventh Fleet area of operations, the Sterett-Dewey SAG will remain under the control of Third Fleet. Both Seventh and Third fleets are under US Navy Pacific Fleet.

“Third Fleet operating forward offers additional options to the Pacific Fleet commander by leveraging the capabilities of 3rd and 7th Fleets,” 3rd Fleet Public Affairs said. This will complement both numbered fleets.

The Third Fleet last year a 3-warship Surface Action Group which included USS Spruance (DDG 111), USS Decatur (DDG 73) and USS Momsen (DDG 92).

“We are building upon the successes and applying the lessons learned from the inaugural PACSAG deployment,” said Capt. David A. Bretz, commander, DESRON 31. “The value of a SAG cannot be overstated. We are ready and able to support a variety of exercises and missions with our partners and allies in support of maritime stability and security in the Western Pacific.”
http://www.update.ph/2017/04/us-navy-deploys-surface-action-group-to-western-pacific/16391


----------



## Star Expedition

initial_d said:


> So why not your mighty PLA NAVY stop US Navy in south china sea? ?!! LOLs......
> We know that china navy don't have the ball againts monsterous US Navy, china only dare bullying small country such as the phillipine and Vietnam...
> China military says aware of U.S. carrier in South China Sea
> 
> China's defense ministry said on Thursday it was aware of the presence of a U.S. aircraft carrier strike group in the South China Sea and China respected freedom of navigation for all countries in the waters there.
> 
> http://www.reuters.com/article/us-so...-idUSKBN1620YO



You are all right.
Because you are Singapore, knowing nothing about strategy.




kecho said:


> The communiqué included in Shanghai 1972, when was an important diplomatic document issued by the ÚSA and China PRC on February 28, 1972 during President Nixon's visit to China. The US and China also agreed that neither they nor any other power should "_seek hegemony in the Asia-Pacific region_".
> 
> China invaded in to Paracel 1974 and 1988, and also made artifact íslands there. China is violated the agreement dated 1972 to seek hegemony in the Asia-Pacific region.



We talk about this with you guys just because our carriers are still in the plan and dock.
If you don't like to respect the history, then solution is simple.



kecho said:


> *US Navy deploys Surface Action Group to Western Pacific*
> 
> April 2, 2017 Joel Dizon World 0
> 
> ShareTweet
> 
> 
> The United States Navy Third Fleet has deployed a two-warship Sterett-Dewey Surface Action Group (Sterett-Dewey SAG) March 31 to Western Pacific. The SAG has departed San Diego.
> 
> “The command staff of Destroyer Squadron (DESRON) 31 and the guided-missile destroyers USS Sterett (DDG 104) and USS Dewey (DDG 105) will deploy with the embarked helicopter detachments from Helicopter Maritime Squadron (HSM) 49 and HSM 78,” 3rd Fleet Public Affairs said.
> 
> Though the Western Pacific is under US Navy Seventh Fleet area of operations, the Sterett-Dewey SAG will remain under the control of Third Fleet. Both Seventh and Third fleets are under US Navy Pacific Fleet.
> 
> “Third Fleet operating forward offers additional options to the Pacific Fleet commander by leveraging the capabilities of 3rd and 7th Fleets,” 3rd Fleet Public Affairs said. This will complement both numbered fleets.
> 
> The Third Fleet last year a 3-warship Surface Action Group which included USS Spruance (DDG 111), USS Decatur (DDG 73) and USS Momsen (DDG 92).
> 
> “We are building upon the successes and applying the lessons learned from the inaugural PACSAG deployment,” said Capt. David A. Bretz, commander, DESRON 31. “The value of a SAG cannot be overstated. We are ready and able to support a variety of exercises and missions with our partners and allies in support of maritime stability and security in the Western Pacific.”
> http://www.update.ph/2017/04/us-navy-deploys-surface-action-group-to-western-pacific/16391




The us navy is very powerful, so that some people keep dreaming of old master coming back to rule themselves again.



kecho said:


> Paracel and Spratly is territory of Vietnam from long time ago in past, is under control of Nguyễn warlords of Vietnam from year 1600s... Taiwan robed Itu Aba from South Vietnam in 1956.



That's right. Same as Vietnam was part of china for such a long time.



kecho said:


> When both China (PRC) and North Vietnam (VDR) had signed in to Geneva Accord Agreement in 1954, the administrate right of VDR is automatically limited at 17th Pararell at Bến Hải river. In South Vietnam, is under controlled and governed by President Bảo Đại (Vietnam State), later on Ngo Dinh Diem In 1955, Diệm called for a referendum to remove Bảo Đại and establish a Republic Vietnam with Diệm as president, and also with different Law and Constitution, govenor administrate sýstem in South Vietnam, from southern òf 17th Pararall. This ís truth of Vietnam History, my Friend.
> 
> So why, in the letter dated 1958, the *North Vietnam PM had intentionally skip Hoang Sa and Truong Sa name* from his statement (Island does belong to South Vietnam in time 1954 -1975) in his diplomtaic letter.
> 
> Declaration òf independence Vietnam ís still valid up to nơw aday, Vietnamese people have fight in new battle (diplomatically) counter all foreigner occupation in our sea territory with Taiwan (ROC) and Mainland China (PRC) and partly by Phil.
> 
> *Pls don't twisted mỏre about nature òf the diplomatic latter dated 1958*, my friend.



Without China, there weren't north Vietnam, and any boring agreements. Just a USA colony in Asia.



kecho said:


> Last update 15:06 | 30/03/2017
> 
> *Vietnam protests Taiwan’s live-fire drill in Vietnam’s waters*
> _Vietnam resolutely protests against Taiwan (China)’s live-fire drill in waters around Ba Binh in Vietnam’s Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelago and demands that Taiwan not to repeat such activity, stated Foreign Ministry’s Spokesperson Le Hai Binh on March 30._
> 
> 
> _
> 
> 
> 
> _
> 
> _Foreign Ministry’s Spokesperson Le Hai Binh_
> 
> 
> 
> Responding to reporters’ queries on Vietnam’s reaction to Taiwan’s live-fire exercise in Ba Binh waters, Binh declared that the move “seriously violates Vietnam’s sovereignty over Truong Sa archipelago.”
> 
> “It also threatens peace, stability and maritime safety and security in the East Sea, while elevating tension and complicating the situation in the waters,” he said.
> 
> The spokesperson reiterated that Vietnam has all sufficient historical evidence and legal foundation proving the country’s sovereignty over Hoang Sa (Paracel) and Truong Sa archipelagoes.
> 
> _VNA_



If you like, you can protest everyday.
It saves money.



Suika said:


> Well, the link posted the list of countries and the map, but there was a whole article to it. Many of the countries that supported China did not support China fully but only in some respects. Here is the article.
> 
> ---start---
> ---start---
> The South China Sea arbitration case has elicited almost unanimous public opposition in China. Besides this, it has been reported that 66 countries worldwide have endorsed China’s position on the South China Sea. Yet that figure also caused controversy, especially in the United States.
> 
> According to our team’s research, we have found at least 70 countries supporting China’s position on various occasions. We find that the reason for the controversy over the figure comes down to different definitions on “China’s position.” But no matter how it is defined, the psychology behind these statements is a desire to avoid taking sides between China and the United States, showing the reality of a fundamental global consensus on peace and wide-spread anxiety toward the potential for conflict in the South China Sea. Thus, we should take every opportunity to go beyond the “zero-sum game” in order to maintain peace in the South China Sea, to seek Asia-Pacific economic cooperation, and to make the “cake” bigger using economic and financial means.
> 
> How many countries support China’s South China Sea position?
> 
> There is no doubt that Chinese almost unanimously support their government’s official position on the South China Sea, shown by the firestorm of social media comments soon after the award. Moreover, China’s position is also welcomed and understood by other countries. According to the Chinese government and media, nearly 100 parties from more than 60 countries declared their support for China’s position on the South China Sea issue. China Daily counted 66 countries, as shown in the map below.
> 
> The figure, however, encountered doubts from American media and think tanks. The Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative argued that the real number was only ten. We personally also received emails expressing similar doubts.
> 
> Considering such a huge gap in the count, our research team at the international studies department of Chongyang Institute for Financial Studies, Renmin University of China (RDCY), sought to verify on our own by conducting an independent count. We explored the issue by extensively searching the internet, and then looked for original sources including media reports, official statements, diplomatic documents, and talking points. We also searched the Chinese foreign affairs database, Xinhua‘s news and multimedia database, and our news citation system with data from various sources such as Bloomberg and Reuters to verify.
> 
> Strikingly, we identified 70 countries that have expressed their support for China’s position, even more than reported by Chinese media. In addition, the League of Arab States and Shanghai Cooperation Organization are also in line with China. (We have listed the countries and sourced all of the statements, with the date of issue, in the appendix below). It is said some others privately expressed support to China according to our global network, but we only counted the countries that went on record. It is also possible that our team may have miss some countries that are supporting China.
> 
> Why is there such a big gap in the number？
> 
> One reason is quite obvious: some of these statements of support are not available in English. They are expressed and available in Chinese, French, Spanish, Arabic, Swahili, Khmer, or other languages. Therefore, some analysts in the English-speaking world may have merely failed to find them.
> 
> More importantly, though, the discrepancy has something to do with the essence of “China’s position.” Simply put, we suppose most American media and think tanks have not yet understood what “China’s position” means. In our view, China’s position on the South China Sea issue can be interpreted as below:
> 
> 1. China does not participate in the arbitration, nor accept, recognize, or implement the award.
> 2. China will adhere to peaceful negotiations and settlements of the South China Sea dispute.
> 3. While disputes should be settled by the parties directly concerned in accordance with the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea (DOC), China will work with ASEAN countries to maintain peace and stability in this region.
> 4. The temporally-established (ad hoc) arbitral tribunal is neither a part of the Permanent Court of Arbitration (PCA) nor the International Court of Justice (ICJ). It does not have jurisdiction over the territorial disputes, which is the core of the arbitration. The arbitration itself is flawed in procedure. Thus, the award is not legally-binding, nor representing international law.
> 
> To directly support any of those components is to support China’s position. On the contrary, those countries that openly endorse the arbitral tribunal as affiliated to PCA and assert China should recognize and implement the award oppose China’s position.
> 
> In this regard, at least 70 countries, based on our research, endorse China’s position in various angles of the four components above, and they did so in various ways: unilaterally, bilaterally, or multilaterally. All of them welcome peaceful negotiations to settle the disputes. In addition, we should bear in mind that Philippines’ ex-parte arbitration violates its own commitment to peaceful dialogue and negotiation. Among these countries, some expressed their public and firm support for China’s stance of non-acceptance of the arbitration. Nonetheless, “non-acceptance” is only part of China’s position. American media and think tanks who use this alone for their counts misinterpreted the implication of China’s position.
> 
> Generally speaking, most countries’ attitudes toward the South China Sea issue can fall into three categories.
> 
> Counties in the first category, represented by Japan, oppose China’s position by supporting the Philippines’ stance while insisting China should recognize and implement the result of the arbitration, which is claimed to officially represent the PCA. This opinion is rare. China Daily mapped five in its report, but our team can only identify three: Japan, Australia, and the United States. Vietnam and the United Kingdom, though represented on the map, do not meet the definition of opposing China directly. In this circumstance, although Japan indeed raised the issue at the Asia-Europe Meeting (ASEM) in Ulaanbaatar, it was echoed by no country except the Philippines itself, according to Japanese media such as Japan Today, The Japan Times, and The Japan News.
> 
> The second group includes countries that explicitly expressed their firm support to China on the arbitration, such as Pakistan, Cambodia, and some African countries. This group is bigger than the first one, but still limited. For example, in a public speech broadcast on TVK, Cambodia’s state-owned television network, on June 20, Prime Minister Hun Sen revealed diplomatic pressure over the South China Sea from “certain country outside the region” — widely believed to refer to Japan — and expressed his objection to the arbitration. In a press release found on the official website of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Pakistan on July 12, the Chinese neighbor reiterated its support for China on its statement of optional exception in light of Article 298 of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS). Among African countries, Kenya issued a statement on June 15, also on its MFA website, declaring its respect for China’s right of optional exception under UNCLOS Article 298. Gambia, another coastal country in West Africa, has stated its support of China’s position on the arbitration by clearly saying the arbitral tribunal has no jurisdiction over delimitation in the South China Sea through the Gambia Radio and Television Service (GRTS).
> 
> Last, many countries, categorized as the third group, support China’s position in terms of resolving the disputes through consultations and negotiations while following the Declarations on the Conduct of Parties in South China Sea (DOC). Combining the second and the third groups, we have found 70 countries, with probably some still missing. Our global think tank network and foreign embassies in Beijing told us some other countries also hold similar attitudes, but have not openly expressed their position due to some “pressure.” We did not include them in our count.
> 
> Therefore, our key finding is that the claim by Chinese officials that at least 66 countries support China’s position is verified and solid; in fact, we found five more countries. Although the second and third groups as outlined above may have different stresses on China’s position, they all welcome at least one of the four components. Considering China’s official position on the peace negotiations, these two types of opinions acknowledge the path of peace talks.
> 
> Further, the fact that most countries do not show a hardline stance toward either China or the United States illustrates their anxiety about conflicts. This psychological factor is the fundamental issue behind the rally of support.
> 
> The Root Cause: Anxiety Over Conflict
> 
> In our opinion, the moderated stances of most countries can be explained by the global fundamental consensus over the South China Sea issue — a desire for peace. However, some people are worried about the possibility of an armed clash in the South China Sea and even the start of a “new Cold War” which may force countries to take sides between the United States and China. From this point of view, those who assert that only 10 countries support China not only too narrowly define “China’s position,” but also fail to fully recognize the nuance of other countries’ positions. Moreover, whether the count is 10 or 70, the real issues behind these statements are the global consensus on peace and worldwide anxieties or even fears of conflict — or worse, war.
> 
> In recent years, conflicts and turbulence have risen across the world. Thus, there are great anxieties about social unrest and mass violence; there are also anxieties about the distrust between major powers, which may very likely result in a new Cold War or even hot wars if badly managed.
> 
> East Asia has long been called “The Museum of Cold War,” where long-standing geopolitical and traditional security issues have not yet been settled and even have been heating up in recent years, especially after the “pivot to Asia” was introduced.
> 
> Recently, the South China Sea has been the focal point of Sino-U.S. relations. However, when it comes to the South China Sea issue, some countries find themselves trapped into a dilemma: not only do they worry about the loss of economic support from China, but also they are worried about the loss of security support from the United States. Moreover, some may worry that the regional organization they belong to will be split by the South China Sea issue.
> 
> Besides Cambodia mentioned above, Singapore and Thailand have also stated that they will not be involved in the disputes and called for peace. Further, ASEAN as a whole did not form a unanimous view after the arbitration, which shows even ASEAN countries try to avoid taking sides between the two giants.
> 
> A great portion of China’s support comes from African and Middle Eastern states that call for diplomatic negotiations rather than unilateral actions. This is not surprising given their collective history as colonies and the deteriorating security environment in these regions.
> 
> Extremism is on the rise while the South China Sea heats up. In one of our seminars in Washington D.C. recently, Professor Amitai Etzioni of George Washington University reminded us that the United States’ active response to terrorism and extremism in the Middle East and Africa will also guarantee its credibility among allies without taking on the risk of conflict with China; meanwhile, China has many common interests with the United States on anti-terrorism issues.
> 
> Take a look at the tragedy in Nice, think about the death toll in Kabul, let alone the long-lasting bloody turbulence in the Middle East, then you will probably agree with our conclusion: it is time for China and the United States to work together to address our common threats — terrorism and extremism — instead of focusing on the current zero-sum game in the South China Sea.
> 
> Beyond the Zero-Sum Game: Seek Asia-Pacific Cooperation
> 
> When former Chinese State Councilor Dai Bingguo famously said the arbitral award is nothing but “a piece of waste paper” in the U.S.-China Dialogue on the South China Sea held by our institute (RDCY) and the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, we have almost forgotten his key point is that we need a cooling down. Indeed, no matter how the public reacts to the arbitration, the “fusing point” — July 12 — has already passed; all parties are evaluating the next step in the game and restarting the long-term setup for the region. As we mentioned above, peace, the real and fundamental global consensus, remains there. Whether parties want it or not, the disputes will be settled in peace while regional cooperation will continue.
> 
> In fact, even in the Philippines there is an effort toward peace. Rodrigo Duterte, the new president, has shown a low-key, restrained, and cooperative attitude after the arbitration. It is reported that Fidel Ramos, a former Philippine president (and also the authors’ friend), will visit China as an envoy. All these efforts show that peace and stability remain the common interests of all parties of the South China Sea in the “post-arbitration” era.
> 
> This also goes for the United States. As Jeffery Bader of the Brookings Institution wrote in his recent “framework for U.S. policy toward China,” despite the disputes over the South China Sea issue, China is still a vital stakeholder in global governance and shares a lot of common interests with the United States. In particular, China is going to hold the G20 summit in Hangzhou — a chance for China to lead the global economy recovery cooperatively with other G20 members, including the United States. So why can’t the two cooperate on the South China Sea?
> 
> There have been good signs, in fact. Admiral John Richardson, the U.S. chief of naval operations (CNO) paid a successful visit to China on July 17-20, having a fruitful talk with his counterpart Adm. Wu Shengli. We hope this visit will serve as a new starting point for Sino-U.S. military exchanges after the arbitration.
> 
> Furthermore, cooperative governance is plausible in the South China Sea. As the authors said at the U.S.-China Dialogue, the most devastating threat to the fishermen in and around the South China Sea is not from China, nor from the United States, but from typhoons. In this regard, all parties, including China and the United States, can cooperate on issues such as meteorological stations, data sharing, typhoon early warning systems, and joint research on climate change. When it comes to hard military issues, the mechanism for Sino-U.S. cooperation already exists. China has taken part in the RIMPAC exercises twice now; in fact, as we wrote this piece, one Chinese fleet was exercising together with U.S. Navy around Hawaii. It is time to freeze tensions as well as activating the existing military exchanges.
> 
> We should also bring joint development and broader economic cooperation back to table. Recently, the Duterte government has expressed its will to cooperate with China in exploiting the resources of the South China Sea. The Philippines have some maritime area in the South China Sea that are not subject to sovereignty disputes, but does not have the technology and investment to benefit from them. Here China can do something for the Philippines. This prospect recalls the suggestion to shelve differences and seek joint development put forward by former Chinese leader Deng Xiaoping when meeting with a former Philippine leader.
> 
> Finally, as we wrote in our previous article, the South China Sea issue will not stop China-ASEAN economic and financial cooperation. The 21st Century Maritime Silk Road initiative and Mekong-Lancang Mechanism initiated by China are shaping more diversified development projects, and a more flexible and open win-win situation where all ASEAN countries can obtain the investments that they urgently need, including in the sectors of manufacturing, infrastructure, and what we call the “financial infrastructure.” Moreover, the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank (AIIB) is a financial institution with strong compatibility and feasibility. The Philippines joined the institution as a founding member; of course, Japan and the United States are welcome to join and benefit from AIIB as well.
> 
> To conclude, to avoid a war and to maintain peace in the South China Sea and the Asia-Pacific is the real and fundamental global consensus behind the divergent views on “China’s position.” To make a difference, China, the United States, and other countries should bring joint development back and focus more on possible cooperation areas from anti-terrorism to economic and financial ties, eventually leading the global economy out of its sluggish and uneven recovery.
> ---end---
> ---end---
> http://thediplomat.com/2016/07/who-supports-china-in-the-south-china-sea-and-why/
> 
> Probably the real reason why so many countries supported China in some form or another was just to get money out of China. All those countries in Africa.. do you think they really care about the South China Sea? Venezuela? They were a recipient of Chinese investments. But even Chinese investments didn't save their country from collapsing. The US and Japan openly opposed. Just those two count multiple times more than all those Africa countries. Australia came along with the US and Japan like a good ally. Not a single major European country supported China. They remained silent, they know what is economically good.
> 
> Additionally, in December 2016, the UK said they will sail their new carriers through the South China Sea. And they will fly Typhoons through the South China Sea in support of international law.
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ted-South-China-Sea-strength-aimed-China.html
> 
> And France is slowly coming in towards actual military relations with the US, Japan, and the UK in support of international law.
> http://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-navy-china-idUSKBN16O0QK
> 
> Regardless of what color India is on that map, they support Vietnam in regards to the South China Sea, and China has expressed its dislike of it.
> https://thewire.in/63957/india-and-vietnam-upgrade-to-comprehensive-strategic-partnership/
> 
> Vietnam of course maintains its claims in the South China Sea and has been improving the capabilities of their features in the Spratly islands.
> 
> I don't understand why China felt like having a party on their airbase on Fiery Cross Reef last year. Apparently they all actually thought that they were going to get away with it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.thenational.ae/world/eas...s-singers-to-assert-claims-in-south-china-sea
> 
> When it becomes May 2017, it'll be one year since they had that party, and JS Izumo will be sailing and practicing with the US Navy in the South China Sea. Maybe the Chinese will have another party for when JS Izumo comes, I don't know. Maybe they think 20 countries from Africa will bring whatever scrapes of naval forces to the South China Sea for joint training with the PLA Navy? Again, I don't know..




We don't need thousands of such articles to prove anything. South sea is our sea.



kecho said:


> Supercomplex mentality òf Chine is destroyed bay Mongolian, Manchurian, they ruled you until 1912, and in the last Japanese had ruled you until 1945. Without intervention of Soviet an USA, China is part of Japan Imperial until now. Pls to learn the correct history of China and try best to be ordinary people in modern time.




You are definitely right.
Th point is we are fast growing in all fields and get stronger.
What you have in hand is a history book that you can write whatever you like.



kecho said:


> Viets kicked you back to China. Thís ís my answer.



Even today, Vietnam is the 3rd powerful country is the world, undoubtedly in history, GDP or internet.



kecho said:


> The list is meaningless. Here is rule of international law.




Vietnam is good at writing. Carry on. We r expecting a thousand pages work



samsara said:


> *Australia’s pragmatic South China Sea policy best for our region*
> 
> BOB CARR
> The Australian - March 18, 2017
> 
> It’s a reasonable bet Australians would be more comfortable with a democratic China; that is, a China boasting competing political parties in an elected legislature, buttressed by robust freedom of expression.
> 
> Foreign Minister Julie Bishop’s remarks in Singapore on Monday (3/13) on the value of democracy, aimed at China, are the kind of thing that may be laid down for the record — once in a while — before resuming normal diplomacy. *A country with thousands of years of cultural continuity won’t change its political system because of lectures by Westerners.* US Democrat Nancy Pelosi spoke in the early 1990s of China introducing freedom of expression under American pressure. Henry Kissinger commented wryly on this naive notion that pressure from the US congress could produce “freedom of speech and the press, which has never existed in five millennia”.
> 
> China is undergoing a demanding economic transition to lift 850 million more people into the middle class by 2030. It is bold and risky. China’s leaders are unlikely to choose this moment to surrender their authority. China will liberalise if its middle class begins to expect it, as in Singapore or South Korea, or a reformist leader sponsors it, as in Taiwan or Myanmar.
> 
> Right now the West has chosen to deal with China as it is, pragmatically drawing it into global governance. Australia, too, is running a pragmatic China policy. The most striking proof is the South China Sea.
> 
> To the disappointment of Australia’s hawks, it is plain as a pikestaff that Australia will not be running US-style patrols there. Last month Bishop met US Secretary of State Rex Tillerson. According to The Australian Financial Review, she told him: “_Australia will not change its past behaviour in the South China Sea and not escalate tensions with Beijing._”
> 
> Despite speculation on two occasions, Australia has not attempted to recruit Indonesia for patrols. Bishop categorically ruled this out in Jakarta on March 6. Note the significance of this. As with our decision to join the China-sponsored Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank, Australia is saying no to US attempts to enlist us to an anti-Chinese posture. Perhaps the lecture on democracy provides cover.
> 
> Yet 18 months ago it had looked almost inevitable that Australia would be recruited to challenge China’s island-building. Three US admirals — their brass glinting and medals tinkling — had dropped strong hints.
> 
> As recently as last December, Admiral Harry B. Harris urged Australia to run its own freedom-of-navigation operations.
> 
> For Canberra, the proposition was problematic on two grounds.
> 
> First, no other American friend, partner or ally — not India, Japan or any European nation — had the remotest interest in jamming its navies into the 12-nautical mile radius around China’s claimed territory. We would be the only one, typecast as a gallant and gullible ally. Second, Canberra had to consider the views of Southeast Asian countries, on whose behalf we would be challenging China.
> 
> And they were all dealing with China. According to Chinese sources, Philippines President Rodrigo Duterte went to Beijing on October 19 to seek an alliance with China, despite China’s non-alignment policy. China has been astute enough to allow Philippines fishing vessels access to waters around Scarborough Shoal, which lies within The Philippines’ exclusive economic zone.
> 
> Just as striking, *Vietnam* also has decided to seek a diplomatic accommodation with China over maritime territorial disputes. Following the visit to Beijing in January by *Nguyen Phu Trong, General Secretary of the Vietnamese Communist Party*, both countries issued a joint communique pledging to “manage well their maritime difference”.
> 
> Against this background the Canberra orthodoxy was captured by Angus Houston, former Australian Defence Force chief, in a speech last month. He came down against the notion of freedom-of-navigation operations, arguing they “_could provoke a response, a military response_”, and added: “I think it’s all about diplomacy in the first instance.”
> 
> His views were endorsed by Defence Minister Marise Payne as a “constructive contribution”. A top military man says it would be foolish to run these patrols and the Defence Minister endorses his comments: cue heartfelt lamentations among Australian Cold Warriors, tears of frustration in the staff cafeteria at the Australian Strategic Policy Institute.
> 
> Australian diplomacy should be directed at leading the Trump administration to pragmatic engagement with China and urging China to freeze militarisation of its artificial islands — doing so with the extra clout we enjoy because the Chinese know we have so far declined patrols with the US but could always change our minds.
> 
> For its part, China is handling the Trump administration with restraint, as a survey of its media responses to Donald Trump confirms. This survey, conducted by the Australia-China Relations Institute, shows Chinese official opinion is eager for dialogue with the Americans. Presidents Trump and Xi Jinping are scheduled to talk at Mar-a-Lago in Florida next month.
> 
> http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/inquirer/australias-pragmatic-south-china-sea-policy-best-for-our-region/news-story/f1991e69f3b4e1b35ca14c05ea99fd71?nk=5efc650c66ee6a628db22ff24d8ac255-1489841927



Australia is a magic land full of magic politicians



kecho said:


> *CHINA BANS FISHING IN VIETNAMESE WATERS*
> Posted on March 8, 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Share on FacebookTweet on Twitter
> 
> 
> The government of Vietnam has condemned China for imposing a fishing ban over its territory in the Paracel Islands, a South China Sea archipelago that China illegally claims as its own.
> 
> The Chinese Ministry of Agriculture announced a ban last week on fishing in multiple regions of the South China Sea, including the Gulf of Tonkin and the waters of Vietnam’s Paracel Islands. Between May 1 and August 16, the Chinese Coast Guard will prevent Vietnamese fishermen from exploiting the resources within Chinese sovereign territory.
> 
> The Vietnamese Foreign Ministry said China made a serious violation of the nation’s sovereignty. “Vietnam resolutely opposes and rejects the regulation issued by China,” Foreign Ministry spokesman Le Hai Binh said last week.
> 
> According to the English-language regional outlet Vietnam Net, Binh added that Vietnam “has sufficient legal ground and historical evidence affirming its sovereignty over Hoang Sa (Paracel) archipelago as well as legitimate rights over its waters in line with the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS).”
> 
> The Chinese government claims most of the South China Sea, including the sovereign waters of Vietnam, the Philippines, Taiwan, Brunei, Malaysia, and Indonesia.
> 
> http://tankler.com/china-bans-fishing-in-vietnamese-waters-13261



If you believe that is your water, go fishing.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## initial_d

@Star Expedition
It's all about saving face what China govt say and do when US Navy trolling on South China Sea, you realise that nothing you can do to them...... Just like a dog with his tail under his leg meeting stronger opponent. lols

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## terranMarine

@Star Expedition He's a delusional Indonesian thinking the US will come save them.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Star Expedition

initial_d said:


> @Star Expedition
> It's all about saving face what China govt say and do when US Navy trolling on South China Sea, you realise that nothing you can do to them...... Just like a dog with his tail under his leg meeting stronger opponent lols



Of course.

We are not a competitor to the USA now and also are not too stupid to risk.

But now, it is very easy for us to build lots of ports in Malaysia to provide better services to all ships.

Or dig a canal in Thailand some day.



terranMarine said:


> @Star Expedition He's a delusional Indonesian thinking the US will come save them.



They have plenty of time to argue, dream or beg.

We have the same time to build more carriers.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## oprih

initial_d said:


> So why not your mighty PLA NAVY stop US Navy in south china sea? ?!! LOLs......
> We know that china navy don't have the ball againts monsterous US Navy, china only dare bullying small country such as the phillipine and Vietnam...
> China military says aware of U.S. carrier in South China Sea
> 
> China's defense ministry said on Thursday it was aware of the presence of a U.S. aircraft carrier strike group in the South China Sea and China respected freedom of navigation for all countries in the waters there.
> 
> http://www.reuters.com/article/us-so...-idUSKBN1620YO


What are you violently whining about, thanks to the mighty PLA navy, america has basically not able to do anything to stop China's constructions of grand islands in South China sea.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## terranMarine

oprih said:


> What are you violently whining about, thanks to the mighty PLA navy, america has basically not able to do anything to stop China's constructions of grand islands in south china sea.



The almighty America wanted to invade DPRK after its first nuclear explosion, when China told the almighty one: Don't even try it, the mighty one obeyed

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Globenim

kecho said:


> Vietnam is one country but was divided in  two zone or two part, is the same. The first Vietnam war (1946-1954) is the fighting between Communists (Việt Minh - Vietnam Democratic Republic goverment headed by Hồ Chí Minh) and Nationalists (State of Vietnam goverment, headed by former Nguyen Dynasty Vietnam's Emperor Bảo Đại as President) with direct military interference of France Goverment.
> 
> Its reported that in Genava Conference 1954, China (PRC) is invited. And China for yourselves, on June 23, Mendès France secretly met with Zhou Enlai at the French Embassy in Bern, _Zhou outlined the Chinese position that an immediate ceasefire was required, the three nations should be treated separately (Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam), and recognition that two governments existed in Vietnam_.
> 
> China PRC and Vietnam VDR had signed in Geneva Accord Agreement dated 7 April 1954. China was known well about the true history. There was two part of Vietnam is existed with two different goverment, is governed in two separated territory, with border line at Pararell 17 at Benhai river, from 1954 to 1975. it does mean that in the time, there is two state was in Vietnam, like the situation in Korea now.
> 
> link here: Logevall, Fredrik (2012). _Embers of War: The Fall of an Empire and the Making of America's Vietnam_. random House


Thanks for proving my point that your understanding of history is clearly wrong and being more clear about the parts you clearly didn't understand (or want to misunderstand) and tried to muddy up, to come up with the now self-explaining false claims that the Geneva Accords themselves separated Vietnam into two states and China signed something like that off. I guess that ends the debate.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Star Expedition

We are busy writing new epic, while Vietnam is making more exciting stories to set up their unbelievable glory history.

We are changing the world, while Vietnam goes back to old master's arms for warm.

The future of the world belongs to us. Even the moon, the galaxy, the universe.

that's our destiny.


Vietnam is just a bug on our long voyage.
It's nothing but its master has to be taken good care of at this stage.
Just go fishing, no worries. we only catch ships and will release fisherman.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cochine

Star Expedition said:


> We are busy writing new epic, while Vietnam is Making more exciting stories to set up their unbelievable glory history.
> 
> We are changing the world, while Vietnam goes back to old master's arms for warm.
> 
> The future of the world belongs to us. Even the moon, the galaxy, the universe.
> 
> that's our destiny.
> 
> 
> Vietnam is just a bug on our long voyage.
> It's nothing but its master has to be taken good care of at this stage.
> Just go fishing, no worries. we only catch ships and will release fisherman.



Its called wet dream, bro.


----------



## Star Expedition

kecho said:


> Its called wet dream, bro.



Of course you don't understand.

You know nothing more than buying weapons from USA, Japan and India, invading cambodia...
In one word: your biggest vision is inside of Indo-China peninsula.

But we Chinese are different.
We are from the Central Empire, the center of Asia and world.

That also means people like you in Vietnam will be sided and other voted to join us again as a province, just like in history.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## terranMarine

Star Expedition said:


> This post is here.
> You can come back after 10 years, 20 years, 50 years.



Just like this one  https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/top-...-2017-under-construction.486901/#post-9345530

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Star Expedition

The USA's presence in our South Sea is like a strong patient is showing he is still have muscles, while his heart needs bypass surgery.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## grey boy 2

Viet said:


> this thread seems become a place where young Chinese come to mast...


Well, blame it on our resident troll "vietboy kecho" for his daily "SEDUCTIVE" trolling LOL and of cos thanks to your typical bias one liner simply just add "OIL to the FIRE" as well

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Star Expedition

Viet said:


> this thread seems become a place where young Chinese come to mast...



you are right.

This forum belongs to our brother, and we Chinese are totally free to speak what we want.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## grey boy 2

Viet said:


> @waz
> 
> Can you pls take a minute of your costly time and read the comment of terra boy above? He is extremely annoying. His language is a shame for the people of China, a country that is proud of thousands years of civilization.



Don't forget to turn yourself in for flame baiting post #11655 for saying we Chinese come to "masturbate" on this thread as well, little man 

Like an old Asian wisdom preaching: "don't started the fire if you can't handle the heat" LOL

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## terranMarine

grey boy 2 said:


> Don't forget to turn yourself in for flame baiting post #11655 for saying we Chinese come to "masturbate" on this thread as well, little man


Little man is good at skipping his own comment when pointing at Chinese 
But one thing i finally agree with him China is proud of the Millennium Domination of VN  (totally agree)

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## waz

terranMarine said:


> Little man is good at skipping his own comment when pointing at Chinese
> But one thing i finally agree with him China is proud of the Millennium Domination of VN  (totally agree)



Please be careful with your choice of words. Thank you.


----------



## Star Expedition

terranMarine said:


> Little man is good at skipping his own comment when pointing at Chinese
> But one thing i finally agree with him China is proud of the Millennium Domination of VN  (totally agree)




There are 2 kinds of histories on the earth： the real one and the created one.
We are really not good at the latter.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## terranMarine

Star Expedition said:


> There are 2 kinds of histories on the earth： the real one and the created one.
> We are really not good at the latter.



You are right, when Viets claimed they kicked the Americans out or won the Vietnam War, you know it's a fabrication. The World knows the Americans went home by themselves, they did not surrender all due to Chinese assistance.



waz said:


> Please be careful with your choice of words. Thank you.



Absolutely, I totally understand the frustrations are too much for these poor fragile souls to bear. I shall try to seal the truth as tight as possible but they will have to cooperate otherwise I can't promise the onslaught -> truth unleashed upon their sanity (what's left of it that is after what the mighty one had inflicted upon them during those 2 dreadful decades)

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Radical101

There was a documentary about an island in South China Sea in 1960s when Vietnam tried to defend it by placing aggressive 89 Vietnam soldiers. So the story goes one day Chinese might of military came confronted them & killed all of them in one hour. Now who is Vietnam to bully south China Sea even with all coalition trouble monger's stirring up?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cochine

terranMarine said:


> You are right, when Viets claimed they kicked the Americans out or won the Vietnam War you know it's a fabrication. The World knows the Americans went home by themselves, they did not surrender all due to Chinese assistance.



Yes, both of you American and Chinese were went home voluntarily and freely in 1973 and 1979.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## terranMarine

kecho said:


> Yes, both of you American and Chinese were went home voluntarily and freely in 1973 and 1979.


Absolutely, Viets also went back home voluntarily from the Sea skirmish with China. Some of you wanted to stay permanently in the depth of the SCS so China granted them their wish

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cochine

terranMarine said:


> Absolutely, Viets also went back home voluntarily from the Sea skirmish with China. Some of you wanted to stay permanently in the depth of the SCS so China granted them their wish

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## terranMarine

@kecho is that it?  when no more argument or bashed so hard by Chinese you make repetitive posts.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## TaiShang

_Peacification, not militarization. This is China's strategy in SCS. But, we need to ensure enough check on the mad militarist empire that is tremendously unstable these days.

Peace is the antithesis of the mad empire in our region.

***_






*Beijing, Southeast Asian Neighbors Report ‘Progress’ on South China Sea Deal*

01:10 05.04.2017(updated 03:57 05.04.2017)

*Fiery disagreements over the South China Sea may soon start to cool down, as Beijing and an association of nearby countries inch closer to a settlement for civil maritime conduct.*

The Association of Southeastern Asian Nations (ASEAN) has made "progress" on reaching an accord in the South China Sea, according to the Philippines’ Foreign Ministry, and a final agreement could be made as soon as August. 

Rating their progress, Philippine Acting Foreign Minister Enrique Manalo said *"we are at a very high level" since communications on a code of conduct in the South China Sea began in January.*

"I think China still believes, is still in the position that [the code of conduct] shouldn’t be legally binding," Manalo said. This could become a sticking point, as Manalo thinks there should be a clause that makes the new code obligatory. 





© AFP 2017/ STR

Beijing Outmaneuvering US Navy in South China Sea

Alternatively, China could be using the legally binding clause to improve its leverage in the negotiation process. From a deliberations standpoint, "it’s a little bit early to say," Manalo said on Monday.

*The diplomat was optimistic that half of the elements within the code of conduct have been agreed upon by China and ASEAN.* "We were starting from zero in January," he says. On March 7, Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi announced the completion of an initial draft for the code. 

Beijing has insisted that arguments over claims in the South China Sea should be left to nations in the immediate region, without Western intervention. The ASEAN nations include Brunei, Cambodia, Indonesia, Laos, Malaysia, Myanmar, the Philippines, Singapore, Thailand and Vietnam. 

A host of countries have expressed disdain for what they claim is China’s militarization of islets in the South China Sea, which will likely render it a sensitive point as the 11 nations seek convergence on a regional agreement. The group of 14 islets, islands and cays, plus some 100 reefs, comprising the Spratly Island group, for example, is claimed by Taiwan, China, Vietnam, Brunei and Malaysia.

Chinese leaders have asserted that its military installments in the Spratly Islands are for routine defense purposes.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Star Expedition

Vietnam people shows more and more ps crafts everyday.
We are not good at that.
We can only build more and more aircraft carrier combat groups , deploy them in each area in south sea to protect our fish.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## terranMarine

Star Expedition said:


> Vietnam people shows more and more ps crafts everyday.
> We are not good at that.
> We can only build more and more aircraft carrier combat groups , deploy them in each area in south sea to protect our fish.


We do what we are good at, no time to stop need to keep building more

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Viet

terranMarine said:


> Little man is good at skipping his own comment when pointing at Chinese
> But one thing i finally agree with him China is proud of the Millennium Domination of VN  (totally agree)


Large part of Germany was part of Roman Empire, but unlike the Italians you are constantly talking of Vietnam being part of China.

Can't you move on?


----------



## samsara

Viet said:


> Large part of Germany was part of Roman Empire, but unlike the Italians you are constantly talking of Vietnam being part of China.
> 
> Can't you move on?


But today's Italy is much smaller than Germany and trailing behind in almost every aspect of life... Italy will become the *world's laughing-stock* if it ever asserts its past Roman greatness legacy over today's Germany. Besides, today's Italy is just a remnant of the Roman Empire and quickly relegates to a diminishing power, even within the Old Continent boundary itself.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Star Expedition

samsara said:


> But today's Italy is much smaller than Germany and trailing behind in almost every aspect of life... Italy will become the *world's laughing-stock* if it ever asserts its past Roman greatness legacy over today's Germany. In fact today's Italy is just a remnant of the Roman Empire and quickly relegates to a diminishing power, even within the Old Continent boundary.



We will never win in debate on history.
Simply because most Vietnam people have their homemade history books.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## terranMarine

Viet said:


> Large part of Germany was part of Roman Empire, but unlike the Italians you are constantly talking of Vietnam being part of China.
> 
> Can't you move on?



Are you holding a mirror? Who is it that keeps barking like a mad dog China was ruled by Mongols, Manchu, Japs, British. They took over China and raped our women that is what you have been repeating all the time. And you are now saying we Chinese are living in the past ? 

Excuseeeee me, the one who is suffering from a very serious superiority complex is YOU. You guys are so inferior from the inside that you are constantly bragging about your past glory: "We kicked the French, Chinese, Americans, Mongols out"

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Star Expedition

kecho said:


> *Turbulence in South China Sea: India Offers Missile to Vietnam*
> © AFP 2017/ JUNG YEON-JE
> ASIA & PACIFIC
> 20:00 09.01.2017Get short URL
> 45213215428
> *India is an old friend of Vietnam and both don't subscribe to China's claim in the South China Sea. That is the reason for raised eyebrows over India's offer to supply missiles to Vietnam.*
> New Delhi (Sputnik) — India has offered to supply indigenously developed Akash missile to Vietnam at a time when both countries are talking of China's growing assertiveness in the Asia-Pacific region.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> © PHOTO: YOUTUBE/DEFENSENEWSX
> India to Test Nuclear-Capable Submarine-Launched Ballistic Missile
> In fact, India has been helping Vietnam's defence modernization when it is trying in confrontation with China on the South China Sea issue. It recently underwrote the costs of four patrol boats that it will build especially for Vietnam.
> 
> 
> Akash is a medium range air-to-air missile system developed by India's Defense Research and Development Organization (DRDO). Akash has the capacity to destroy targets up to 30 km away.
> 
> Initially, India will supply the missiles off-the-shelf to Vietnam and could later into a joint production arrangement.
> 
> Vietnam has been a close Indian ally in South East Asia and Prime Minister Narendra Modi's visit to Vietnam last year saw both countries elevating their strategic partnership to a comprehensive strategic partnership.
> 
> India-Vietnam defense ties are an important aspect of their strategic partnership. Earlier, India had offered to supply naval vessels to Vietnam as well as the BrahMos supersonic cruise missile. India also trains Vietnamese fighter pilots as both countries mainly operate Russian fighter jets.
> 
> "It's a part of India-Vietnam defense cooperation. Supplying of Akash missiles by India to Vietnam is very small in caparison to what China had supplied to Pakistan. But it's a beginning," Srikant Kondapalli, Professor of Chinese Studies in Jawahar Lal University in New Delhi told Sputnik.
> https://sputniknews.com/asia/201701091049409735-india-vietnam-missile-south-china-sea/




Poor Chinese army.
We have no money to buy.
Even we to buy, they don't have.



kecho said:


> *SC Justice: Invoke defense treaty with US if China attacks Navy in Scarborough*
> 
> March 20, 2017 PNA Nation 0
> 
> ShareTweet
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Supreme Court Senior Associate Justice Antonio Carpio on Monday made recommendations to President Rodrigo Duterte on how to respond to China’s reported plan to install a radar station in the disputed Panatag or Scarborough Shoal. In a statement, Carpio said the President is the Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces which is tasked by the Constitution to defend the country’s territory.
> 
> He pointed out that under Republic Act 9522 or the Philippines’ Baseline Law, Scarborough Shoal is part of the Philippine territory.
> 
> Carpio said since the Philippines is no match to China militarily, the President can fulfill his constitutional duty by doing any, some or all of the following:
> 
> 1. File a strong formal protest against the Chinese building activity. This is the least that the President should do. This is what the Vietnamese did recently when China sent cruise tours to the disputed Paracels.
> 
> 2. Send the Philippine Navy to patrol Scarborough Shoal. If the Chinese forces attack Philippine navy vessels, then the President can invoke the Philippines-US Mutual defense Treaty which covers any armed attack on Philippine navy vessels operating in the South China Sea.
> 
> 3. Ask the United States to declare that Scarborough Shoal is part of Philippine territory for purposes of the Philippines-US Mutual Defense Treaty since the shoal has been part of Philippine territory even during the American colonial period. The US has declared the Senkakus as part of Japanese territory for purposes of the US-Japan mutual defense treaty.
> 
> 4. Accept the standing US offer to hold joint naval patrols in the South China Sea, which includes Scarborough Shoal. This will demonstrate joint Philippine and US determination to prevent China from building on Scarborough Shoal.
> 
> 5. Avoid any act, statement or declaration that expressly or impliedly waives Philippine sovereignty to any Philippine territory in the West Philippine Sea. This will preserve for future generations of Filipinos their national patrimony in the West Philippine Sea.
> 
> “This will preserve for future generations of Filipinos their natural patrimony in the West Philippine Sea,” Carpio said.
> 
> In 2012, China seized Panatag Shoal or the Scarborough Shoal after a standoff between Chinese and Filipino vessels. China is denying Filipino fishermen access to its rich fishing stock.
> 
> The Permanent Court of Arbitration ruled that Panatag Shoal is a “common fishing ground” of fishermen not only from the Philippines but also from China and other neighboring countries.
> http://www.update.ph/2017/03/sc-jus...us-if-china-attacks-navy-in-scarborough/15984




We PLA is afraid of USA army or international alliance.
Scared...



kecho said:


> *JAPAN DEPLOYING LARGEST WARSHIP TO SOUTH CHINA SEA*
> Posted on March 14, 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Share on FacebookTweet on Twitter
> 
> 
> Japan plans to dispatch its largest warship in South China Sea beginning in May.
> 
> According to source, Izumo helicopter carrier, commissioned only two years ago, will make stops in Singapore, Indonesia, the Philippines and Sri Lanka before joining the Malabar joint naval exercise with Indian and U.S. naval vessels in the Indian Ocean in July.
> 
> It will return to Japan in August, the sources said.
> 
> “The aim is to test the capability of the Izumo by sending it out on an extended mission,” said one of the sources who have knowledge of the plan. “It will train with the U.S. Navy in the South China Sea,” he added, asking not to be identified because he is not authorized to talk to the media.
> 
> A spokesman for Japan’s Maritime Self Defense Force declined to comment.
> 
> Japan does not have any claim to the waters, but has a separate maritime dispute with China in the East China Sea.
> 
> http://tankler.com/japahviun-deploying-largest-warship-to-south-china-sea-13374



Japanese presence in south sea brings nightmares to us.
What to do?
Keep building more carriers.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## JSCh

* China lab plans deep-sea research with manned submersible in S.China Sea *
Source:Global Times Published: 2017/4/4 19:53:39

A Chinese lab has announced that it will conduct research with a manned deep-sea submersible in the South China Sea, a national first.

The Qingdao National Laboratory for Marine Science and Technology (QNLM) said at a conference Saturday that Jiaolong, China's first manned deep-sea submersible, will be used for research in the region from April 1, news portal chinanews.com reported Tuesday.

Jiaolong will study the environment at five points in the ocean ranging from depths of 2,500 meters to 4,000 meters in South China Sea after sailing from Sanya, South China's Hainan Province on April 9. 

This expedition will form part of the QNLM's "Aoshan" series of projects which seek to use advanced technology to conduct undersea research.

"It is significant that Jiaolong's first deep-sea scientific research will be conducted in the South China Sea," Pan Kehou, the secretary-general of QNLM, was quoted as saying by chinanews.com.

"This is part of a joint plan and the samples we collect will be shared," Pan added.

"Jiaolong will probe a comprehensive range of subjects including geology, biology and the ecosystem," Yang Gang, senior engineer from the First Institute of Oceanography, was quoted as saying.

Jiaolong, produced by the China Shipbuilding Industry Corporation in 2002, set a national record in June 2012 by reaching a depth of 7,062 meters in the Pacific Ocean's Mariana Trench. It was deployed in 2014 in the Indian Ocean for its first voyage.

Plans to build China's first long-term national underwater observation platform in the South China Sea to observe conditions in real time have also recently been announced, involving Shanghai's Tongji University and the Institute of Acoustics under the Chinese Academy of Sciences, news portal sciencenet.cn reported on February 26.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## cochine

Last update 10:24 | 23/03/2017

*Philippines plans protest against China’s Scarborough construction*
_ The Philippines plans to make a strong protest against China’s preparatory work for an environment monitoring station on the disputed Scarborough Shoal in the East Sea, Justice Minister Vitaliano Aguirre said on March 21._


_




_

_Scarborough shoal (Source: Telegraph)_


The Philippines would file a complaint against the plan China has just announced, Minister Aguirre told press in Manila.

The Philippines would take necessary action to defend and protect the country's sovereignty and entitlements in the disputed maritime borders, Presidential spokesman Ernesto Abella said.

"President Rodrigo Duterte has repeatedly asserted that the Philippines is not giving up its claims and entitlements over the area," he reiterated.

When asked on March 19 for his response to the report of a radar station to be built at the Scarborough Shoal, Duterte said: "We cannot stop China."

Until late last year China had two to three coastguard ships guarding the shoal and stopping Filipinos from tapping their vast traditional fishing ground.

In 2016, an international tribunal ruled that Beijing violated Manila's entitlements and no country has sole rights to fish there, Reuters reported.

In 2012, China seized the Scarborough Shoal, which is 120 nautical miles from the nearest coast of the Philippines’ main island of Luzon and stopped Filipino fishermen to approach the rich waters. Then Filipinos were allowed to return to fish at the shoal after Philippine President Duterte visited China in October 2016, called for a new era of ties. 

_VNA_


----------



## Star Expedition

kecho said:


> Last update 10:24 | 23/03/2017
> 
> *Philippines plans protest against China’s Scarborough construction*
> _ The Philippines plans to make a strong protest against China’s preparatory work for an environment monitoring station on the disputed Scarborough Shoal in the East Sea, Justice Minister Vitaliano Aguirre said on March 21._
> 
> 
> _
> 
> 
> 
> _
> 
> _Scarborough shoal (Source: Telegraph)_
> 
> 
> The Philippines would file a complaint against the plan China has just announced, Minister Aguirre told press in Manila.
> 
> The Philippines would take necessary action to defend and protect the country's sovereignty and entitlements in the disputed maritime borders, Presidential spokesman Ernesto Abella said.
> 
> "President Rodrigo Duterte has repeatedly asserted that the Philippines is not giving up its claims and entitlements over the area," he reiterated.
> 
> When asked on March 19 for his response to the report of a radar station to be built at the Scarborough Shoal, Duterte said: "We cannot stop China."
> 
> Until late last year China had two to three coastguard ships guarding the shoal and stopping Filipinos from tapping their vast traditional fishing ground.
> 
> In 2016, an international tribunal ruled that Beijing violated Manila's entitlements and no country has sole rights to fish there, Reuters reported.
> 
> In 2012, China seized the Scarborough Shoal, which is 120 nautical miles from the nearest coast of the Philippines’ main island of Luzon and stopped Filipino fishermen to approach the rich waters. Then Filipinos were allowed to return to fish at the shoal after Philippine President Duterte visited China in October 2016, called for a new era of ties.
> 
> _VNA_



We will happily live on our land and sea no matter what noises are there.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## grey boy 2

HD satellite Islands structures updates (3/9/2017)

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## samsara

China has successfully tested its *underwater robot* from 3,000 meters of South China Sea, attaining the salvage capability from the same depth - Xinhua News 2017.04.10

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## GS Zhou

grey boy 2 said:


> HD satellite Islands structures updates (3/9/2017)


one of my dreams is to play football on this beautiful field! Hope it could be realized soon!!

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## cochine

*US Navy destroyer USS Stethem arrives in Subic Bay*

April 11, 2017 PNA Nation 0

ShareTweet


The Arleigh Burke-class guided-missile destroyer USS Stethem (DDG 63) arrived in Subic Bay for a brief port call that highlights the strong community and military connections between the Philippines and the United States.

The US Embassy in Manila said the ship’s crew will use the stop to conduct some minor repairs with the assistance of Philippine companies.




The United States and Philippines continue to build upon their 70-year history of partnership through defense cooperation, port visits, and military training activities. The American and Philippine militaries have worked together on areas of mutual interest including humanitarian assistance and disaster relief, counterterrorism, cybersecurity, and maritime security.

USS Stethem is forward-deployed to the U.S. 7th Fleet area of operations in support of security and stability in the Indo-Asia-Pacific region.

http://www.update.ph/2017/04/us-navy-destroyer-uss-stethem-arrives-in-subic-bay/16685


----------



## Star Expedition

kecho said:


> *US Navy destroyer USS Stethem arrives in Subic Bay*
> 
> April 11, 2017 PNA Nation 0
> 
> ShareTweet
> 
> 
> The Arleigh Burke-class guided-missile destroyer USS Stethem (DDG 63) arrived in Subic Bay for a brief port call that highlights the strong community and military connections between the Philippines and the United States.
> 
> The US Embassy in Manila said the ship’s crew will use the stop to conduct some minor repairs with the assistance of Philippine companies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The United States and Philippines continue to build upon their 70-year history of partnership through defense cooperation, port visits, and military training activities. The American and Philippine militaries have worked together on areas of mutual interest including humanitarian assistance and disaster relief, counterterrorism, cybersecurity, and maritime security.
> 
> USS Stethem is forward-deployed to the U.S. 7th Fleet area of operations in support of security and stability in the Indo-Asia-Pacific region.
> 
> http://www.update.ph/2017/04/us-navy-destroyer-uss-stethem-arrives-in-subic-bay/16685




It scared us again. 
Almost a scheduled entertainment to show.

If they think we are a threat to their power, they should act really quickly, not just hanging around. 

When we get 20 carriers, all waters are ours.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## JSCh

*Salvage robot reaches 3,000 meters underwater *
New China TV
*Published on Apr 11, 2017*

An maritime salvage robot successfully dived to the depth of about 3,000 meters during a sea trial in the South China Sea. It marks a breakthrough in China's deep-sea salvage capacity.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cochine

Star Expedition said:


> It scared us again.
> Almost a scheduled entertainment to show.
> 
> If they think we are a threat to their power, they should act really quickly, not just hanging around.
> 
> When we get 20 carriers, all waters are ours.



China ís very aggressive. You can't stolen water of people there with force.

*President Duterte firm on building structures in West Philippine Sea*

April 11, 2017 PNA Nation 0

ShareTweet


President Rodrigo R. Duterte is firm on putting structures, including mounting the Philippine flag, in the West Philippine Sea, but emphasized the “Philippines will maintain good relations with the People’s Republic of China.”

The President also stressed he will protect Philippine ownership over Benham Rise.

“China can relax. We are friends. We will not go to war with you. We’re just trying to maintain the balance of the geopolitical situation there (West Philippine Sea),” President Duterte said.

While he extended his hands of friendship to China, the President also called on the Chinese government to “kindly take a deep look at the situation there to avoid the situation where everybody is grabbing every land and islet in the disputed islands.”

In a press briefing Monday before he left for an official visit to the Middle East, Duterte revealed he had been hearing plans to put up structures and missile facilities in the West Philippine Sea, which the Chinese government calls as the South China Sea.”I will not allow that to happen. So I said occupy and claim it as ours,” he said.

“So for the information of China, we will not place any weapons there. We are just there to claim the islands because that is really ours,” Duterte emphasized.

He ordered the Armed Forces of the Philippines (AFP) to build structures there “to signify to all that it is the Philippines’ exclusive property.”

“We do not mean harm to China. We are friends as a matter of fact. And maybe when we get rich, very rich, I can sell the land to you for — inyo na (it’s yours). When the spectacle of a war is gone, nothing is dangerous to the Philippines,” he said.

Duterte said that with the Philippine flag installed in the West Philippine Sea, any exploration in the area needs clearance from the Philippine government. Upon his return, Duterte said he will be issuing an executive order renaming Benham Rise as “The Philippine Ridge” or “The Philippine Rise.”

Also known as Benham Plateau, this 13-million- hectare seismically active undersea region is located east of Luzon, and is 35 meters underwater at its shallowest point off the provinces of Aurora and Isabela. It is said to be wider than Luzon, Samar and Leyte combined.
http://www.update.ph/2017/04/presid...lding-structures-in-west-philippine-sea/16702


----------



## sinait

GS Zhou said:


> one of my dreams is to play football on this beautiful field! Hope it could be realized soon!!
> View attachment 390082



Ya, it immediately caught me eye too. Satellite pictures are fantastic. Any idea what they do when typhoon comes around.



kecho said:


> China ís very aggressive. You can't solen water of people there with force.
> 
> *President Duterte firm on building structures in West Philippine Sea*
> 
> April 11, 2017 PNA Nation 0
> 
> ShareTweet
> 
> 
> President Rodrigo R. Duterte is firm on putting structures, including mounting the Philippine flag, in the West Philippine Sea, but emphasized the “Philippines will maintain good relations with the People’s Republic of China.”
> 
> The President also stressed he will protect Philippine ownership over Benham Rise.
> 
> “China can relax. We are friends. We will not go to war with you. We’re just trying to maintain the balance of the geopolitical situation there (West Philippine Sea),” President Duterte said.
> 
> While he extended his hands of friendship to China, the President also called on the Chinese government to “kindly take a deep look at the situation there to avoid the situation where everybody is grabbing every land and islet in the disputed islands.”
> 
> In a press briefing Monday before he left for an official visit to the Middle East, Duterte revealed he had been hearing plans to put up structures and missile facilities in the West Philippine Sea, which the Chinese government calls as the South China Sea.”I will not allow that to happen. So I said occupy and claim it as ours,” he said.
> 
> “So for the information of China, we will not place any weapons there. We are just there to claim the islands because that is really ours,” Duterte emphasized.
> 
> He ordered the Armed Forces of the Philippines (AFP) to build structures there “to signify to all that it is the Philippines’ exclusive property.”
> 
> “We do not mean harm to China. We are friends as a matter of fact. And maybe when we get rich, very rich, I can sell the land to you for — inyo na (it’s yours). When the spectacle of a war is gone, nothing is dangerous to the Philippines,” he said.
> 
> Duterte said that with the Philippine flag installed in the West Philippine Sea, any exploration in the area needs clearance from the Philippine government. Upon his return, Duterte said he will be issuing an executive order renaming Benham Rise as “The Philippine Ridge” or “The Philippine Rise.”
> 
> Also known as Benham Plateau, this 13-million- hectare seismically active undersea region is located east of Luzon, and is 35 meters underwater at its shallowest point off the provinces of Aurora and Isabela. It is said to be wider than Luzon, Samar and Leyte combined.
> http://www.update.ph/2017/04/presid...lding-structures-in-west-philippine-sea/16702



zzz ... zzz . 
Can you please spare us with your incessant rants. Too much and it becomes very annoying. Post something interesting, like what is happening on those islands occupied by Vietnam. Don't just post all and sundry that is anti-China Please. Most of us are not interested in your quarrels. We would like to see new developments and not this quarrel and that quarrel and so on and so forth. Aren't you tired? If you insist, then please leave the Philippines out. Just post what concerns your country. Grrr

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## terranMarine

Star Expedition said:


> It scared us again.
> Almost a scheduled entertainment to show.
> 
> If they think we are a threat to their power, they should act really quickly, not just hanging around.
> 
> When we get 20 carriers, all waters are ours.



That Vietcong can only post news about Philippines surrounding the SCS issue. No news from Vietnam, obviously our Southern neighbor turns out to be chicken.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## GS Zhou

sinait said:


> Any idea what they do when typhoon comes around.


To be honest, there is very limited work you could do when typhoon hits the island. What's important is to have an early & accurate predict on the route of typhoon, so the potentially-influenced islands could get some cushion time for preparation and key assets evacuation. And in order to make high quality typhoon forecast, you need to be equipped with both meteorological satellites and super computer systems.

Meteorological satellites wise, China currently has 8 active meteorological satellites working on the orbit; with another 13 ones planned to be sent to orbit during the next 10 years;

Super computers wise, China is the developer and owner of world's No.1 (Sunway Taihu Light, ~100Pflop) and No.2 (Tianhe-2, ~50Pflop) fastest computers. And China's current target is to launch an 1,000 Pflop (10x faster than Sunway Taihu Light, the current fastest one) computer by 2018.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## sinait

GS Zhou said:


> To be honest, there is very limited work you could do when typhoon hits the island. What's important is to have an early & accurate predict on the route of typhoon, so the potentially-influenced islands could get some cushion time for preparation and key assets evacuation. And in order to make high quality typhoon forecast, you need to be equipped with both meteorological satellites and super computer systems.
> 
> Meteorological satellites wise, China currently has 8 active meteorological satellites working on the orbit; with another 13 ones planned to be sent to orbit during the next 10 years;
> 
> Super computers wise, China is the developer and owner of world's No.1 (Sunway Taihu Light, ~100Pflop) and No.2 (Tianhe-2, ~50Pflop) fastest computers. And China's current target is to launch an 1,000 Pflop (10x faster than Sunway Taihu Light, the current fastest one) computer by 2018.



What I mean is do occupants huddle up in an elevated and reinforced building and wait out the typhoon. Maybe somebody can post something on how they manage during typhoon time. Like if there is provision to protect the pigs on the island. Is internet still available or else its really boring and miserable. Regarding typhoon forecast, there is the Tree island reclamation washout by typhoon. Wonder if they thought that it was enough to withstand the typhoon or the typhoon came unexpectedly.
It was an eye opener when the Tianhe-1 appeared, and China have held the supercomputer crown ever since to the chagrin of the US. All that BS that China cannot innovate. Its funny the US thought they can stop China by banning the export of Intel chips. China just came up with their own chip. Innovation needs $ and research, which China has abundant now. So we can expect more exciting things to come out of China. 
China Jiayou.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cochine

terranMarine said:


> That Vietcong can only post news about Philippines surrounding the SCS issue. No news from Vietnam, obviously our Southern neighbor turns out to be chicken.



do mỏre talk less, we are preparing for next battle counter China next invasion in our sea territory. USA. Japan, Phil ís good pảrtner of us for free navigation hêre.

*LOOK: Vietnam Navy sailing ship arrives in Philippines*

April 10, 2017 Ace dela Cruz Nation 0

ShareTweet






PH Navy photo
Vietnam People’s Navy sailing ship Le Quy Don 286 arrived in South Harbor, Manila April 8 for a goodwill visit. The ship is under the command of Lt. La Van Tam. Onboard are 50 cadets from Vietnam’s naval academy headed by its Deputy Director, Commodore Phan Van Van, the Philippine Navy said.

http://www.update.ph/2017/04/look-vietnam-navy-sailing-ship-arrives-in-philippines/16675


----------



## terranMarine

kecho said:


> do mỏre talk less, we are preparing for next battle counter China next invasion in our sea territory. USA. Japan, Phil ís good pảrtner of us for free navigation hêre.


but you are doing the opposite, you talk too much and do little

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Viet

sinait said:


> Ya, it immediately caught me eye too. Satellite pictures are fantastic. Any idea what they do when typhoon comes around.
> 
> 
> 
> zzz ... zzz .
> Can you please spare us with your incessant rants. Too much and it becomes very annoying. Post something interesting, like what is happening on those islands occupied by Vietnam. Don't just post all and sundry that is anti-China Please. Most of us are not interested in your quarrels. We would like to see new developments and not this quarrel and that quarrel and so on and so forth. Aren't you tired? If you insist, then please leave the Philippines out. Just post what concerns your country. Grrr


as you want: Vietnam construction and land reclamation on ONE island. notice we have lots of islands and reefs 
























this one is nice, too 






or this 





a shelter for all fishermen in need

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cochine

terranMarine said:


> but you are doing the opposite, you talk too much and do little



you are lack in understanding...


----------



## sinait

terranMarine said:


> but you are doing the opposite, you talk too much and do little


I agree. I had a good laugh after reading your post. clownish?



Viet said:


> as you want: Vietnam construction and land reclamation on ONE island. notice we have lots of islands and reefs


Thanks, that's what I thought too. Keep them coming. But you too must agree the recent batch of satellite pic by greyboy2 are simply stunning, especially when they have a track field and what looks like basketball courts. All these practically in the middle of nowhere. Understandable you may not like it, but it is exciting to see how China rapidly built up their islands from nearly nothing.
China have advantage that they are building from scratch. So their islands are stunningly beautiful.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cochine

sinait said:


> I agree. I had a good laugh after reading your post. clownish?
> 
> 
> Thanks, that's what I thought too. Keep them coming. But you too must agree the recent batch of satellite pic by greyboy2 are simply stunning, especially when they have a track field and what looks like basketball courts. All these practically in the middle of nowhere. Understandable you may not like it, but it is exciting to see how China rapidly built up their islands from nearly nothing.
> China have advantage that they are building from scratch. So their islands are stunningly beautiful.



many Hua Singaporian had troll here too much, I'm just wander that are you chinese or from other ethnic living in Singapore ?

any case, what china did in such reefs or propaganda for her construction is meaningless. Its showed of the true aggressive habitat of China. PCA ruling said that China doesn't have historic right with nine dashed claim in SCS. Occupation of China is illegal.


----------



## sinait

kecho said:


> many Hua Singaporian had troll here too much, I'm just wander that are you chinese or from other ethnic living in Singapore ?



Is it important?. Chinese members here never consider that when they bombarded me in the thread on Singapore Terrex Vehicles detained in Hong Kong. Its not a good feeling, but I just state my point and move on without being antagonistic.




kecho said:


> any case, what china did in such reefs or propaganda for her construction is meaningless. Its showed of the true aggressive habitat of China. PCA ruling said that China doesn't have historic right with nine dashed claim in SCS. Occupation of China is illegal.



Based on your empty words or that Japanese arranged kangaroo 1-sided Tribunal. Suffice to say I am Singaporean, but I lean more towards Chinese views on the South China Sea. You see all these Chinese immigrants in the Philippines and South East Asia long ago (since 10th century?). Where are the Vietnamese?

Unless the Chinese travel in an underground tunnel, they must have stopped and used these South China Sea islands. Unlike the Imperial West, the Chinese focus on trade. They are just claiming uninhabited islands. They don't kill, colonize or enslave the locals even though they had a strong navy led by Zheng He, if the lands they visit are inhabited.

On the contrary, the Vietnamese are claiming lands that are forcefully stolen at gun point by the French. Consider yourselves lucky that you have China as your neighbor instead of India, seeing the way India annexed Sikkim, Goa, etc and how they bully Sri Lanka and Nepal. Of course it could be Vietnam giving them a lesson of their life seeing your performance against your colonists. But Vietnam did become colonized more than once whereas China's conquerors always rule as Chinese and became Chinese themselves. That says a lot about their cultural strength. Can you explain why India still have unresolved border issues with relatively friendly Myanmar. If not for the huge sacrifice by the Chinese fighting the Japanese to the end without surrendering, wonder how WW2 will turn out. It is commendable that China have resolved borders with nearly all their neighbors.

I have been watching these threads for many years as it's entertaining. I seldom feel the need to butt into your dispute except to give thanks for those wonderful pics. I am pissed off by those abrasive nationalistic Chinese, but so do all those newly rich but this time on a massive scale. Remember the phrase "ugly American", and Japanese sex tours. We were resented by the relatively poor Taiwanese when we 1st went there for military training.

Don't think the Pinoys support you, except for keyboard warriors, they don't. I hope China, Vietnam, SK, Japan and hopefully the Philippines will together show the West what Asians can achieve. Asians can be proud again with China leading the way. I remember those days when Japan is an also ran in the Olympics. I never thought Asians can reach such heights in international events until China came along. China made my day.

Pardon me if I am partial to China's views. My apologies, but I am open to being persuaded by you through FACTS, though this issue is not important to me, and I may not respond. Maybe I shouldn't have taken a dig at you and laughed at your expense. It will be helpful if you can write to your Gov to return Pugad Island to show that Vietnam is not greedy land grabbing.

Hope you can contribute towards this thread with interesting items instead of those old maps by murderous Imperial colonizers. People may think that you are so proud to be colonized. Thks

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cochine

sinait said:


> Is it important?. Chinese members here never consider that when they bombarded me in the thread on Singapore Terrex Vehicles detained in Hong Kong. Its not a good feeling, but I just state my point and move on without being antagonistic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Based on your empty words or that Japanese arranged kangaroo 1-sided Tribunal. Suffice to say I am Singaporean, but I lean more towards Chinese views on the South China Sea. You see all these Chinese immigrants in the Philippines and South East Asia long ago (since 10th century?). Where are the Vietnamese?
> 
> Unless the Chinese travel in an underground tunnel, they must have stopped and used these South China Sea islands. Unlike the Imperial West, the Chinese focus on trade. They are just claiming uninhabited islands. They don't kill, colonize or enslave the locals even though they had a strong navy led by Zheng He, if the lands they visit are inhabited.
> 
> On the contrary, the Vietnamese are claiming lands that are forcefully stolen at gun point by the French. Consider yourselves lucky that you have China as your neighbor instead of India, seeing the way India annexed Sikkim, Goa, etc and how they bully Sri Lanka and Nepal. Of course it could be Vietnam giving them a lesson of their life seeing your performance against your colonists. But Vietnam did become colonized more than once whereas China's conquerors always rule as Chinese and became Chinese themselves. That says a lot about their cultural strength. Can you explain why India still have unresolved border issues with relatively friendly Myanmar. If not for the huge sacrifice by the Chinese fighting the Japanese to the end without surrendering, wonder how WW2 will turn out. It is commendable that China have resolved borders with nearly all their neighbors.
> 
> I have been watching these threads for many years as it's entertaining. I seldom feel the need to butt into your dispute except to give thanks for those wonderful pics. I am pissed off by those abrasive nationalistic Chinese, but so do all those newly rich but this time on a massive scale. Remember the phrase "ugly American", and Japanese sex tours. We were resented by the relatively poor Taiwanese when we 1st went there for military training.
> 
> Don't think the Pinoys support you, except for keyboard warriors, they don't. I hope China, Vietnam, SK, Japan and hopefully the Philippines will together show the West what Asians can achieve. Asians can be proud again with China leading the way. I remember those days when Japan is an also ran in the Olympics. I never thought Asians can reach such heights in international events until China came along. China made my day.
> 
> Pardon me if I am partial to China's views. My apologies, but I am open to being persuaded by you through FACTS, though this issue is not important to me, and I may not respond. Maybe I shouldn't have taken a dig at you and laughed at your expense. It will be helpful if you can write to your Gov to return Pugad Island to show that Vietnam is not greedy land grabbing.
> 
> Hope you can contribute towards this thread with interesting items instead of those old maps by murderous Imperial colonizers. People may think that you are so proud to be colonized. Thks



what I've guested, idea ís correct, you are Hua Chinese Singapore citizen, you just repeated what brain washed Chinese members with their propaganda, had said here in this forum. I don't like to lost my time to discuss with you point to point on that what you have said above.
But I can say to you again, is related to old map of Vietnam and others, that Vietnam is the first country in the region had claimed Paracel and Spratly is territory of Vietnam, from many hundred year ago without troubles with China or others in the past.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Shotgunner51

Guys, stay on topic, as per forum rules no personal attack on your fellow poster (or group of posters collectively), no national attack on the general civilian public of a nation or race (but not government). Post your debate on opponent's content, not on the opponent himself. If you suspect any of these rules are violated, report or PM a mod (mods cannot be here 24/7 but will attend asap, so wait), ignore, move on.

P.S.: At least six posters violated forum rules here to-date, too many posts spotted, no warning/infraction will apply to old posts, but please behave from now on, debate or can even fight but do it clean, thanks guys.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## GS Zhou

Pictures of China's Xisha Islands today

Solar Power Array





the Sansha Airport





Meteorology Station





Xisha Hotel





TV Tower





Sanitation workers on the island





BBQ man on the island

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## sinait

kecho said:


> what I've guested, idea ís correct, you are Hua Chinese Singapore citizen, you just repeated what brain washed Chinese members with their propaganda, had said here in this forum. I don't like to lost my time to discuss with you point to point on that what you have said above.
> But I can say to you again, is related to old map of Vietnam and others, that Vietnam is the first country in the region had claimed Paracel and Spratly is territory of Vietnam, from many hundred year ago without troubles with China or others in the past.



Please don't be fixated on who is of what ethnicity. Better if you explain why if Vietnamese had been prevalent in the South China Sea, why there are so many Chinese diaspora in South East Asia but not the Vietnamese.


----------



## Viet

sinait said:


> Please don't be fixated on who is of what ethnicity. Better if you explain why if Vietnamese had been prevalent in the South China Sea, why there are so many Chinese diaspora in South East Asia but not the Vietnamese.


do you know the town of Hoi An (peaceful assembly)?

it is a town located central Vietnam.

nearly all Chinese diaspora in SEA have their root in this town. you may ask why? most Chinese ethnics today are grand grand grand children of Chinese merchants, political refugees, who fled China because of persecution at home. because ancient China considered merchants as the last scum. or they escaped to Vietnam because of invasions of the Mongols, the Manchu. we provided the refugees a home. later they spread to other regions of Southeast Asia as Malaysia, Singapore and Indonesia.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## sinait

Viet said:


> do you know the town of Hoi An (peaceful assembly)?
> 
> it is a town located central Vietnam.
> 
> nearly all Chinese diaspora in SEA have their root in this town. you may ask why? most Chinese ethnics today are grand grand grand children of Chinese merchants, political refugees, who fled China because of persecution at home. because ancient China considered merchants as the last scum. or they escaped to Vietnam because of invasions of the Mongols, the Manchu. we provided the refugees a home. later they spread to other regions of Southeast Asia as Malaysia, Singapore and Indonesia.


Unfortunately I am not well read with Vietnam or China history and geography. Offhand I would think that some of the Chinese diaspora are from Hoi An but the majority are not. No matter the reasons or origin, scores of Chinese did sail the South China Sea and settle in South East Asia. Through their journeys and fishing they came across these uninhabited islands. These happen mostly during the Han and Tang dynasties and therefore before the Manchus and the Mongols. 
My initial reading of the South China Sea disputes were like most of my fellow Sinkies, is yes, China is so far away to be claiming these islands. After following arguments on PDF and other sites, I have changed my mind. Mr Kecho like to harp on Chinese ethnicity brainwashing. If that were the case, there won't be any Hong Kong or Taiwan problem or even Tiananmen. Anyway thanks for that info on Hoi An. I also like those pics you posted, especially Sin Cowe Island can be beautiful after rebuilding. It will be great if there is cooperation between Asian nations to break up the Western hegemony and with China leading the way, it is possible.



Viet said:


> as you want: Vietnam construction and land reclamation on ONE island. notice we have lots of islands and reefs
> 
> a shelter for all fishermen in need



West Reef is nice. Looks like reclamation is still going on the bottom corner. The enclosure can put up a lot of ships. The date is April 2016, should be fully reclaimed by now.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

sinait said:


> Unfortunately I am not well read with Vietnam or China history and geography. Offhand I would think that some of the Chinese diaspora are from Hoi An but the majority are not. No matter the reasons or origin, scores of Chinese did sail the South China Sea and settle in South East Asia. Through their journeys and fishing they came across these uninhabited islands. These happen mostly during the Han and Tang dynasties and therefore before the Manchus and the Mongols.
> My initial reading of the South China Sea disputes were like most of my fellow Sinkies, is yes, China is so far away to be claiming these islands. After following arguments on PDF and other sites, I have changed my mind. Mr Kecho like to harp on Chinese ethnicity brainwashing. If that were the case, there won't be any Hong Kong or Taiwan problem or even Tiananmen. Anyway thanks for that info on Hoi An. I also like those pics you posted, especially Sin Cowe Island can be beautiful after rebuilding. It will be great if there is cooperation between Asian nations to break up the Western hegemony and with China leading the way, it is possible.


of course Chinese fishermen catch fishes in the South sea as China calls it, or Vietnamese fishermen in East sea as Vietnam calls it, dated back since thousands of years. long before the terms "South East Asia" and "South China sea" were invented by White men. not only Chinese, Vietnamese but also fishermen from Malaysia, Philippines and Indonesia fish in the seas that belong to nobody.

the conflict starts when China adopts the concept of the White men of "closed seas". in contrast to "open seas" that exist since thousands of years.

the islands are a different story. Vietnam has many islands in the sovereignty and administration. so do other SEA nations in the region. China is the last who tries to occupy the islands from others by force.



sinait said:


> West Reef is nice. Looks like reclamation is still going on the bottom corner. The enclosure can put up a lot of ships. The date is April 2016, should be fully reclaimed by now.


I think, too, West Reef building is complete now. VN has begun to reclaim at Ladd Reef. da there is a lighthouse as well. when we get enough money and machineries we will copy the Chinese style.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cochine

sinait said:


> Please don't be fixated on who is of what ethnicity. Better if you explain why if Vietnamese had been prevalent in the South China Sea, why there are so many Chinese diaspora in South East Asia but not the Vietnamese.



China invaded in to paracel Islands of Vietnam in 1974. In Spratly Vietnam control more Islands and reefs than China. 

Our kids in Spratly Islands.






























Vietnam Primary school in Spratly.


























http://www.24h.com.vn/tin-tuc-trong...hs-quay-mot-huong-o-truong-sa-c46a711773.html

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## sinait

kecho said:


>


What island is this? Usually I notice the islands got high walls and no beaches. This is very nice. Shiok place to idle if no typhoon.


----------



## cochine

sinait said:


> What island is this? Usually I notice the islands got high walls and no beaches. This is very nice. Shiok place to idle if no typhoon.



There is Đảo Song Tử Tây (tên quốc tế: Southwest Cay). This is true Island with beach.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Star Expedition

Viet said:


> as you want: Vietnam construction and land reclamation on ONE island. notice we have lots of islands and reefs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this one is nice, too
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> a shelter for all fishermen in need



All of them will save our cost. Thanks.
All buildings on other's land will still belong to landlord.



Viet said:


> do you know the town of Hoi An (peaceful assembly)?
> 
> it is a town located central Vietnam.
> 
> nearly all Chinese diaspora in SEA have their root in this town. you may ask why? most Chinese ethnics today are grand grand grand children of Chinese merchants, political refugees, who fled China because of persecution at home. because ancient China considered merchants as the last scum. or they escaped to Vietnam because of invasions of the Mongols, the Manchu. we provided the refugees a home. later they spread to other regions of Southeast Asia as Malaysia, Singapore and Indonesia.



Poor Vietnam people. They can only learn what they are told, not right.



kecho said:


> do mỏre talk less, we are preparing for next battle counter China next invasion in our sea territory. USA. Japan, Phil ís good pảrtner of us for free navigation hêre.
> 
> *LOOK: Vietnam Navy sailing ship arrives in Philippines*
> 
> April 10, 2017 Ace dela Cruz Nation 0
> 
> ShareTweet
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PH Navy photo
> Vietnam People’s Navy sailing ship Le Quy Don 286 arrived in South Harbor, Manila April 8 for a goodwill visit. The ship is under the command of Lt. La Van Tam. Onboard are 50 cadets from Vietnam’s naval academy headed by its Deputy Director, Commodore Phan Van Van, the Philippine Navy said.
> 
> http://www.update.ph/2017/04/look-vietnam-navy-sailing-ship-arrives-in-philippines/16675




This is really funny. Some Vietnam, India, Japanese people think more countries get involved will defeat Chinese PLA.

This is just what we always prepared for.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Viet

Star Expedition said:


> All of them will save our cost. Thanks.
> All buildings on other's land will still belong to landlord.
> 
> 
> 
> Poor Vietnam people. They can only learn what they are told, not right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is really funny. Some Vietnam, India, Japanese people think more countries get involved will defeat Chinese PLA.
> 
> This is just what we always prepared for.


You are a funny boy.

Let me ask you a question:

Why in ancient times Japanese pirates frequently raided and looted Chinese coastal cities but never Vietnamese?

Ok I know, you will come with excuse: Vietnam is too far away

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Star Expedition

Viet said:


> You are a funny boy.
> 
> Let me ask you a question:
> 
> Why in ancient times Japanese pirates frequently raided and looted Chinese coastal cities but never Vietnamese?
> 
> Ok I know, you will come with excuse: Vietnam is too far away




When there is no history knowledge, people always like to choose that topics.

That is because at that time we still have stable control in Vietnam area. And it is hard for Ming dynasty to control more broad area, like Japan and Southeast Asia, my brother.

You lost your history, therefore you lost direction.

Your ancient ancestors begins in south China and moves to current area. You have ours DNA.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cochine

Star Expedition said:


> This is really funny. Some Vietnam, India, Japanese people think more countries get involved will defeat Chinese PLA.
> 
> This is just what we always prepared for.



Only Japan alone, had defeated China in first Sino - China war 1895 and 1937... You can dream more...



Star Expedition said:


> When there is no history knowledge, people always like to choose that topics.
> 
> That is because at that time we still have stable control in Vietnam area. And it is hard for Ming dynasty to control more broad area, like Japan and Southeast Asia, my brother.
> 
> You lost your history, therefore you lost direction.
> 
> Your ancient ancestors begins in south China and moves to current area. You have ours DNA.



Ming Dynasty occupied around 10 year, Viets had kicked you back to China. You ran away from Vietnam my friend.

Vietnamese shared DNA mtdA M175 dated back 35 thousand year, Chinese shared DNA mtdA M122 dated back 10 thousand year. We are your ancester, my friend.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Star Expedition

kecho said:


> Only Japan alone, had defeated China in first Sino - China war 1895 and 1937... You can dream more...
> 
> 
> 
> Ming Dynasty occupied around 10 year, Viets had kicked you back to China. You ran away from Vietnam my friend.
> 
> Vietnamese shared DNA mtdA M175 dated back 35 thousand year, Chinese shared DNA mtdA M122 dated back 10 thousand year. We are your ancester, my friend.
> 
> View attachment 390536


 

This is just current findings with current bones. It's updated every year.
There are even no apes in your whole area. So don't trust too much those manmade evolution data.

Yes we are almost genocided by little Japan.
That's why we are here now.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## JSCh

飞跃西沙永乐群岛的琛航-广金岛，填海扩建后，港池扩大，新修了多个直升机平台和机库。坚持建设性处理好南海问题，是中方的一贯立场！( 查看微博 )
Paracel - Palm island.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## sinait

JSCh said:


> 飞跃西沙永乐群岛的琛航-广金岛，填海扩建后，港池扩大，新修了多个直升机平台和机库。坚持建设性处理好南海问题，是中方的一贯立场！( 查看微博 )
> Paracel - Palm island.



Very nice looking island with its curves. Pity it is not of higher resolution. I think the emphasis is on the Spratley Islands.



Star Expedition said:


> This is just current findings with current bones. It's updated every year.
> There are even no apes in your whole area. So don't trust too much those manmade evolution data.
> 
> Yes we are almost genocided by little Japan.
> That's why we are here now.



The Chinese were remarkable. They fought against heavy odds and never surrendered until victory was achieved. The Japanese would have succeeded if they had ruled as Chinese like what the Mongols and the Manchus did. Not that difficult as the Japanese are already using the Chinese characters. In that case the whole East Asia will be speaking Mandarin including Korea. Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere would have been achieved with Beijing as the Capital.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Globenim

kecho said:


> Vietnamese shared DNA mtdA M175 dated back 35 thousand year, Chinese shared DNA mtdA M122 dated back 10 thousand year. We are your ancester, my friend.


You mean you are our primitive cousins who got stuck on the evolutionary ladder.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## sinait

Globenim said:


> You mean you are our primitive cousins who got stuck on the evolutionary ladder.



That's a good one. This fella don't give up. haha

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Star Expedition

We have to live there with birds singing and some Vietnam people's crying.
They are both lovely.

Now we just focus on build more carrier groups as scheduled.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## sinait

Viet said:


> You are a funny boy.
> 
> Let me ask you a question:
> 
> Why in ancient times Japanese pirates frequently raided and looted Chinese coastal cities but never Vietnamese?
> 
> Ok I know, you will come with excuse: Vietnam is too far away



Distance could be 1 of the factors. With Vietnam the Japanese pirates will not be able to "*frequently *raided and looted Chinese coastal cities". During ancient times they don't have modern ships with engines and its a major effort and dangerous to travel the distance to Vietnam. Its more profitable to raid nearby China and Korea which they did.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cochine

Star Expedition said:


> We have to live there with birds singing and some Vietnam people's crying.
> They are both lovely.
> 
> Now we just focus on build more carrier groups as scheduled.



true mentality of invader. just what Japanese did when they invaded in to China in the past. The occupation of invaders ís illegal.


----------



## Star Expedition

kecho said:


> true mentality of invader. just what Japanese did when they invaded in to China in the past. The occupation of invaders ís illegal.




We don't have time to speak truth again and again.
The ships will do that once for all.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Star Expedition

kecho said:


> Yes, lỉars don't like to say about truth. ...


 

We are Chinese, that means we don't like to argue all the day. 
We act right away.

You can use your such abilities with your allies.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Basel

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/855709367622000641

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## yusheng



Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## yusheng

Statement of the Government of the People's Republic of China on China's Territorial Sovereignty and Maritime Rights and Interests in the South China Sea
2016/07/12
To reaffirm China's territorial sovereignty and maritime rights and interests in the South China Sea, enhance cooperation in the South China Sea with other countries, and uphold peace and stability in the South China Sea, the Government of the People's Republic of China hereby states as follows:

I. China's Nanhai Zhudao (the South China Sea Islands) consist of Dongsha Qundao (the Dongsha Islands), Xisha Qundao (the Xisha Islands), Zhongsha Qundao (the Zhongsha Islands) and Nansha Qundao (the Nansha Islands). The activities of the Chinese people in the South China Sea date back to over 2,000 years ago. China is the first to have discovered, named, and explored and exploited Nanhai Zhudao and relevant waters, and the first to have exercised sovereignty and jurisdiction over them continuously, peacefully and effectively, thus establishing territorial sovereignty and relevant rights and interests in the South China Sea.

Following the end of the Second World War, China recovered and resumed the exercise of sovereignty over Nanhai Zhudao which had been illegally occupied by Japan during its war of aggression against China. To strengthen the administration over Nanhai Zhudao, the Chinese government in 1947 reviewed and updated the geographical names of Nanhai Zhudao, compiled Nan Hai Zhu Dao Di Li Zhi Lüe (A Brief Account of the Geography of the South China Sea Islands), and drew Nan Hai Zhu Dao Wei Zhi Tu (Location Map of the South China Sea Islands) on which the dotted line is marked. This map was officially published and made known to the world by the Chinese government in February 1948.

II. Since its founding on 1 October 1949, the People's Republic of China has been firm in upholding China's territorial sovereignty and maritime rights and interests in the South China Sea. A series of legal instruments, such as the 1958 Declaration of the Government of the People's Republic of China on China's Territorial Sea, the 1992 Law of the People's Republic of China on the Territorial Sea and the Contiguous Zone, the 1998 Law of the People's Republic of China on the Exclusive Economic Zone and the Continental Shelf and the 1996 Decision of the Standing Committee of the National People's Congress of the People's Republic of China on the Ratification of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, have further reaffirmed China's territorial sovereignty and maritime rights and interests in the South China Sea.

III. Based on the practice of the Chinese people and the Chinese government in the long course of history and the position consistently upheld by successive Chinese governments, and in accordance with national law and international law, including the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, China has territorial sovereignty and maritime rights and interests in the South China Sea, including, inter alia:

i. China has sovereignty over Nanhai Zhudao, consisting of Dongsha Qundao, Xisha Qundao, Zhongsha Qundao and Nansha Qundao;

ii. China has internal waters, territorial sea and contiguous zone, based on Nanhai Zhudao;

iii. China has exclusive economic zone and continental shelf, based on Nanhai Zhudao;

iv. China has historic rights in the South China Sea.

The above positions are consistent with relevant international law and practice.

IV. China is always firmly opposed to the invasion and illegal occupation by certain states of some islands and reefs of China's Nansha Qundao, and activities infringing upon China's rights and interests in relevant maritime areas under China's jurisdiction. China stands ready to continue to resolve the relevant disputes peacefully through negotiation and consultation with the states directly concerned on the basis of respecting historical facts and in accordance with international law. Pending final settlement, China is also ready to make every effort with the states directly concerned to enter into provisional arrangements of a practical nature, including joint development in relevant maritime areas, in order to achieve win-win results and jointly maintain peace and stability in the South China Sea.

V. China respects and upholds the freedom of navigation and overflight enjoyed by all states under international law in the South China Sea, and stays ready to work with other coastal states and the international community to ensure the safety of and the unimpeded access to the international shipping lanes in the South China Sea.

http://www.fmprc.gov.cn/nanhai/eng/snhwtlcwj_1/t1379493.htm

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## sinait

kecho said:


> *G7 ministers call for implementation of Hague ruling on South China Sea*
> By Patricia Lourdes Viray (philstar.com) | Updated April 19, 2017 - 3:48pm
> 
> "We consider the July 12, 2016 award rendered by the Arbitral Tribunal under the *UNCLOS as a useful basis* for further efforts to peacefully resolve disputes in the South China Sea," the G7 joint communique read.
> 
> *The UN-backed arbitral tribunal *based in the Hague, Netherlands had ruled that China's nine-dash line claim does not have a legal basis and that Beijing violated its commitment under the UNCLOS for building artificial islands in the Philippines' exclusive economic zone.



FAKE NEWS. Nowhere do I see the G7 ministers call for implementation of anything. In calling for using the award as "*a useful basis for further efforts*", it clearly shows that the G7 don't accept the award as legitimate as well. Merely to use it as a reference only. Please don't twist facts.
The UN has already clarified that they *got nothing* to do with the kangaroo tribunal based in the Hague.
http://globalnation.inquirer.net/141125/arbitral-court-not-a-un-agency
http://www.scmp.com/news/china/dipl...ed-nations-stresses-separation-hague-tribunal.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## JSCh

*Chinese submersible Jiaolong tested ahead of South China Sea dive*
(Xinhua) 08:20, April 24, 2017






Jiaolong (Xinhua/Gao Yue)​
ONBOARD SHIP XIANGYANGHONG 09, April 23 -- Jiaolong, China's manned submersible, went through a dive simulation in Sanya, Hainan Province on Saturday to prepare for a deep descent in the South China Sea.

The submersible stayed underwater for 18 minutes in Saturday's drill before returning Xiangyanghong 09, the mother ship, completing tasks including underwater training for its crew.

Zhang Weijia, who participated, said she was very excited entering the submersible for the first time to learn about its facilities, practical operation and emergency escape.

Jiaolong's South China Sea dive is part of the second stage of China's 38th ocean scientific expedition. The expedition will last for about four months.

The drill was necessary for testing equipment and personnel, said Wu Changbin, general commander of the second stage of the expedition. Currently the Jiaolong's "technological status" is stable and the cooperation among various departments is smooth, Wu said.

Jiaolong completed a deep-sea operation in the northwestern Indian Ocean earlier this year in the mission's first stage. It will also conduct surveys in the Yap Trench and the Mariana Trench in the third stage.

Named after a mythical dragon, Jiaolong reached its deepest depth of 7,062 meters in the Mariana Trench in June 2012.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## samsara

*Jinqing Island 晋卿岛 - Xisha Islands 西沙群岛*

Aerial view of Jinqing Island 晋卿岛, part of the Xisha Islands 西沙群岛 in the South China Sea, oval-shaped, 0.2 square kilometre, inhabited by 20 plus fishermen only. (Xinhua News - 2017.04.23)

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## GS Zhou

Even today, I still feel unbelievable that how could these buildings be constructed in a distant "no-where" in such a short period of time. That's really a magnificent achievement of China!

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## TaiShang

*Singaporean warship visits China*
(Xinhua) April 24, 2017

QINGDAO, April 23 -- A Singaporean warship arrived Sunday at Chinese city Qingdao for a four-day visit and joint drill.

The North Sea Fleet of the Chinese People's Liberation Army(PLA) Navy held a ceremony to welcome missile frigate RSS Intrepid, which is accompanied by Chinese ship Yancheng. Altogether 141 Singaporean naval staff were onboard the frigate.

The two navies will visit each other's ships and hold exchange activities.

After the visit,* the RSS Intrepid and Yancheng will conduct a joint drill practising the Code for Unalerted Encounters at Sea*, focusing on simple subjects such as communication and formation maneuvers.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## ahojunk

TaiShang said:


> *Singaporean warship visits China*
> (Xinhua) April 24, 2017
> 
> QINGDAO, April 23 -- A Singaporean warship arrived Sunday at Chinese city Qingdao for a four-day visit and joint drill.
> 
> The North Sea Fleet of the Chinese People's Liberation Army(PLA) Navy held a ceremony to welcome missile frigate RSS Intrepid, which is accompanied by Chinese ship Yancheng. Altogether 141 Singaporean naval staff were onboard the frigate.
> 
> The two navies will visit each other's ships and hold exchange activities.
> 
> After the visit,* the RSS Intrepid and Yancheng will conduct a joint drill practising the Code for Unalerted Encounters at Sea*, focusing on simple subjects such as communication and formation maneuvers.



Aha. It looks like both countries have gone past the Terrex incident.

Now, they are back on better terms and holding exchange activities. Good for these two countries.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Place Of Space

GS Zhou said:


> Even today, I still feel unbelievable that how could these buildings be constructed in a distant "no-where" in such a short period of time. That's really a magnificent achievement of China!
> 
> View attachment 392608
> 
> 
> View attachment 392609



A building looks like a 5 star hotel!

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## sinait

ahojunk said:


> Aha. It looks like both countries have gone past the Terrex incident.
> Now, they are back on better terms and holding exchange activities. Good for these two countries.



It was never a big problem. The 1st time I visited our Civil Service College, I was so surprised to see so many PRC personnel there for training. Our interest are deeply entrenched as well as large section of the populace have close relatives in China. The Chinese here speak and write simplified Chinese, unlike HK and Taiwan. The relationship may have bumps along the way but will never be impaired.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Star Expedition

sinait said:


> FAKE NEWS. Nowhere do I see the G7 ministers call for implementation of anything. In calling for using the award as "*a useful basis for further efforts*", it clearly shows that the G7 don't accept the award as legitimate as well. Merely to use it as a reference only. Please don't twist facts.
> The UN has already clarified that they *got nothing* to do with the kangaroo tribunal based in the Hague.
> http://globalnation.inquirer.net/141125/arbitral-court-not-a-un-agency
> http://www.scmp.com/news/china/dipl...ed-nations-stresses-separation-hague-tribunal.




Thanks for your efforts. 

This is just one of those thousands of fake news they created to mislead people, they just want to waste our time on nonexistent issues.

Our response is very simple: bigger GDP , bigger navy.
A canon is louder than all these mouths.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Viet

sinait said:


> Distance could be 1 of the factors. With Vietnam the Japanese pirates will not be able to "*frequently *raided and looted Chinese coastal cities". During ancient times they don't have modern ships with engines and its a major effort and dangerous to travel the distance to Vietnam. Its more profitable to raid nearby China and Korea which they did.


Wrong. The Japanese know we have little humor if they come looting our properties.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Star Expedition

Viet said:


> Wrong. The Japanese know we have little humor if they come looting our properties.



Words won't stop Japanese.
Vietnam has nothing to negotiate with much powerful Japan

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cochine

*Japan Is Becoming Player in South China Sea Sovereignty Dispute*
March 20, 2017 4:47 AM

Ralph Jennings





FILE - A helicopter lands on the Izumo, Japan Maritime Self Defense Force's (JMSDF) helicopter carrier, at JMSDF Yokosuka base in Yokosuka, south of Tokyo, Japan, Dec. 6, 2016.

TAIPEI — 
Japan is building up its influence in the South China Sea, the most widely contested body of water in Asia, to curb Chinese expansion and garner support for its broader military as well as economic interests.

In May, Japan will send its Izumo helicopter-carrying warship to the South China Sea for three months of port visits in Southeast Asia before directing it onward to the Indian Ocean for drills with the United States, according to the U.S. Naval Institute’s news website.

“You see this warship more as a multipurpose platform,” said Collin Koh, maritime security research fellow at Nanyang Technological University in Singapore. “It can do humanitarian assistance and disaster relief. It can do anti-submarine warfare, so a few signals Japan wants to send via this deployment.”

*'Causing trouble'*

Last week, China’s foreign ministry spokesperson reacted to word about the warship by urging that Tokyo “refrain from causing trouble in the region” and “respect related countries' efforts to maintain peace and stability,” according to the official Xinhua News Agency.





Japan does not claim the South China Sea, a 3.5 million-square-kilometer body of water prized for fisheries and possible undersea fuel reserves.

Six other governments call all or part of it their own, creating friction since the 1960s. Over the past decade China has angered the others by using landfill to expand tiny islets and built military installations on some to fortify its claim to about 95 percent of the sea.

Japan, which does have maritime territorial disputes with Beijing in the East China Sea, will send the ship as part of a longer-term effort to vie with China’s influence in Southeast Asian coastal states while cooperating with the United States to bolster a broader power base in Asia, analysts say.

“Like China and the U.S., Japan is trying to consolidate its role as a leader in the region,” said Jonathan Spangler, director of the Taipei-based South China Sea Think Tank. “Part of this effort involves demonstrating that it has the capacity and courage to operate in areas well beyond its own borders.”

*Island-building*

The United States hopes to stop Chinese island-building in the South China Sea and ensure freedom of navigation, an agenda that has angered Beijing but found a match in Tokyo.

Japan also cares about the safety of undersea communications infrastructure and China’s compliance with international laws, Koh said.





Japan and China dispute the eight uninhabited Senkaku Islands in the East China Sea. Analysts say Tokyo’s influence in Southeast Asia, along with its close U.S. security relationship, could draw wider sympathy to its Senkaku claim.

Tokyo controls the islets, which are 200 nautical miles (370 kilometers) southeast of Okinawa and called the Diaoyudao in China. It regularly reports spotting Chinese military aircraft flying over nearby waters.

Japan wants to form a “united front” with Southeast Asian countries, said Carl Thayer, emeritus professor of politics at The University of New South Wales in Australia. Brunei, Malaysia, Vietnam and the Philippines contest parts of China’s maritime claims in the South China Sea.

“It does not want the Senkakus to be just an isolated incident. Broader context is China’s assertiveness and growing power in the Indo-Pacific,” he said. “The endgame is stability and getting China to stand down on assertive actions on the Senkakus.”

*Economic influence*

China and Japan already vie for economic influence in Southeast Asia, a hotbed for investment and a vibrant consumer market of about 600 million people.

Japan has given the region development aid since the 1950s. Last year it pledged to raise the amount. The aid builds political relations while keeping doors open for low-cost investment by Japanese factories.

Vietnam and the Philippines are exploring ways to cooperate with China over the disputed sea, adding urgency for Japan. China offers aid and investment to much of Southeast Asia as well.





A satellite image shows what CSIS Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative says appears to be concrete structures with retractable roofs on the artificial island Fiery Cross reefs, South China Sea, in this image released on February 22, 2017.

Japan’s foreign ministry said last year it hoped China would “comply with” a July 2016 world arbitration court ruling against the Chinese claim to about 95 percent of the sea. The Philippines had filed for the arbitration. China rejected the ruling.

“Japan is continuously proactive in terms of providing assistance to the ASEAN (Association of Southeast Asian Nations) countries in terms of conducting ... patrols in the region and also sending the warships to ASEAN countries, very much in line with their emphasis on the rule-based behavior,” said Andrew Yang, secretary-general with the Chinese Council of Advanced Policy Studies think tank in Taiwan.

China’s dialogue with other countries had “improved” relations in the region, Xinhua said.

Beijing distrusts Japan for what it perceives as an unrepentant stance for its pre-World War Two invasion of mainland China. It also frets over the Japan-U.S. military alliance that U.S. Defense Secretary James Mattis reaffirmed in February.

*Japanese influence*

China is used to Japan’s influence in Southeast Asia, analysts say.

Japan sent three amphibious ships to the Philippines in 2013 for relief after Typhoon Haiyan killed about 6,300 people in the Southeast Asian country.

Last year, Japan gave the Philippines two patrol vessels and said it would lease training aircraft, adding to an earlier offer of 10 coast guard ships to an otherwise militarily weak nation. Japan agreed in 2014 to sell Vietnam six used maritime surveillance vessels and two months ago pledged to sell it six new patrol ships.

The Chinese foreign ministry spokesperson said Japan “had inflamed the (South China Sea) issue recently, much to the dissatisfaction of the Chinese people,” Xinhua reported. Unless Japan shifts direction, the news agency said, “China will definitely respond to any action that harms China's sovereignty and security.”

Expect a "continuation" of Japanese military cooperation in Southeast Asia, Thayer said.
http://www.voanews.com/a/japan-player-south-china-sea-sovereignty-dispute/3773376.html


----------



## samsara

*Ganquan Island 甘泉岛 - Xisha Islands 西沙群岛, South China Sea*











_Location of Ganquan Island 甘泉岛 (marked by a red dot at the topmost image)_
_part of the Xisha Islands 西沙群岛 in South China Sea_​
A very recent footage with English commentary on *Ganquan Island 甘泉岛*, part of the *Xisha Islands 西沙群岛* in South China Sea. This tiny yet beautiful island has its own natural source of fresh water. And it has many shipwrecks around its waters, from the ancient time to the modern era... who knows some may contain the lost valuable treasure from the past

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## samsara

kecho said:


> ...



I believe they're the South Vietnamese, the puppet regime of the Washington in Saigon, and it had nothing to do with today's modern Vietnam. Btw, the South Vietnamese simply asked their demise, they launched the military attack on PLA Navy first thinking the US Navy would back them up in their fight against the Chinese but they're terribly wrong then. A blatantly wrong move turned into a deadly one!

I hope the modern Vietnam won't repeat the same mistake as its past South sibling! Accept one's state gracefully and live with reality and do not push one's luck!!

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## sinait

kecho said:


> China robbed *Island òf Vietnam* with force in 1974. this occupation is illegal.


Oh dear, quickly go report matter to your Vietnam People Security and let them investigate. I didn't know that the whole of Vietnam was robbed by China in 1974. BTW when did "Island of Vietnam" become an island. 
Hahahahaha

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cochine

sinait said:


> Oh dear, quickly go report matter to your Vietnam People Security and let them investigate. I didn't know that the whole of Vietnam was robbed by China in 1974. BTW when did "Island of Vietnam" become an island.
> Hahahahaha



you are Hua chinese Singaporian as I said.

*Vietnamese in Germany protest China's militarization of contested waters*
By Minh Duc April 25, 2017 | 08:45 am GMT+7
*Over 100 protesters gathered to condemn China's actions in the Spratly and Paracel archipelagos.*


More than 100 Vietnamese nationals living in Germany took part in a demonstration on Sunday opposite Frankfurt's central station to protest against China's militarization of the South China Sea, which Vietnam calls the East Sea.

Protesters raised Vietnamese flags and German flags as well as banners in Vietnamese, German and English calling for China to halt all actions on Vietnam's Truong Sa (Spratly Islands) and Hoang Sa (Paracel Islands).

They also condemned Beijing's so-called "nine-dash line" and demanded that China comply with international law and respect the verdict of the Permanent Court of Arbitration's tribunal last July. The crowd sang “Noi Vong Tay Lon” (“Join Hands”) and other revolutionary songs to demonstrate their desire to defend Vietnam's sovereignty.

The protest's organizers also sent a letter to the Chinese Consulate in Frankfurt demanding that Beijing end all activities that could cause tension in the South China Sea.

Many Germans took part in the protest in support of Vietnam's policy to resolve disputes by peaceful means and in accordance with international law, and to condemn China's monopolization of the South China Sea.

Participants distributed flyers and brochures to locals and tourists in the area about Vietnam's sovereignty and evidence of China's increased military moves in the South China Sea.

This is the first demonstration by the Vietnamese community in Germany this year, and the sixteenth since China illegally moved an oil platform into Vietnam's waters in 2014.
http://e.vnexpress.net/news/news/vi...litarization-of-contested-waters-3575210.html


----------



## samsara

kecho said:


> you are Hua chinese Singaporian as I said.
> 
> *Vietnamese in Germany protest China's militarization of contested waters*
> By Minh Duc April 25, 2017 | 08:45 am GMT+7
> *Over 100 protesters gathered to condemn China's actions in the Spratly and Paracel archipelagos.*
> 
> 
> More than 100 Vietnamese nationals living in Germany took part in a demonstration on Sunday opposite Frankfurt's central station to protest against China's militarization of the South China Sea, which Vietnam calls the East Sea.
> 
> Protesters raised Vietnamese flags and German flags as well as banners in Vietnamese, German and English calling for China to halt all actions on Vietnam's Truong Sa (Spratly Islands) and Hoang Sa (Paracel Islands).
> 
> They also condemned Beijing's so-called "nine-dash line" and demanded that China comply with international law and respect the verdict of the Permanent Court of Arbitration's tribunal last July. The crowd sang “Noi Vong Tay Lon” (“Join Hands”) and other revolutionary songs to demonstrate their desire to defend Vietnam's sovereignty.
> 
> The protest's organizers also sent a letter to the Chinese Consulate in Frankfurt demanding that Beijing end all activities that could cause tension in the South China Sea.
> 
> Many Germans took part in the protest in support of Vietnam's policy to resolve disputes by peaceful means and in accordance with international law, and to condemn China's monopolization of the South China Sea.
> 
> Participants distributed flyers and brochures to locals and tourists in the area about Vietnam's sovereignty and evidence of China's increased military moves in the South China Sea.
> 
> This is the first demonstration by the Vietnamese community in Germany this year, and the sixteenth since China illegally moved an oil platform into Vietnam's waters in 2014.
> http://e.vnexpress.net/news/news/vi...litarization-of-contested-waters-3575210.html


POOR VIETS... please come over South China Sea  ha ha ha

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## sinait

kecho said:


> you are Hua chinese Singaporian as I said.


Why are you so preoccupied with who is of what ethnicity.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

Star Expedition said:


> Words won't stop Japanese.
> Vietnam has nothing to negotiate with much powerful Japan


Wrong again. Powerful Japan? Japanese pirates only tried one time and never again. I believe we beat them too hard.



samsara said:


> I believe they're the South Vietnamese, the puppet regime of the Washington in Saigon, and it had nothing to do with today's modern Vietnam. Btw, the South Vietnamese simply asked their demise, they launched the military attack on PLA Navy first thinking the US Navy would back them up in their fight against the Chinese but they're terribly wrong then. A blatantly wrong move turned into a deadly one!
> 
> I hope the modern Vietnam won't repeat the same mistake as its past South sibling! Accept one's state gracefully and live with reality and do not push one's luck!!


You are famous as coward, only good in attacking Vietnam when we face multiple threats from inside and outside. If China is of similar size and population we will slap you one in the morning, one in lunch time and one before we go to bed. And nothing you can't do.


----------



## samsara

Viet said:


> Wrong again. Powerful Japan? Japanese pirates only tried one time and never again. I believe we beat them too hard.
> 
> 
> You are famous as coward, only good in attacking Vietnam when we face multiple threats from inside and outside. *If China is of similar size and population* we will slap you one in the morning, one in lunch time and one before we go to bed. And nothing you can't do.


BUT CHINA IS IN NO WAY OF SIMILAR SIZE WITH VIETNAM!! NO SUCH IF IN THIS UNIVERSE

_Read again my earlier lines:_ "I hope the modern Vietnam won't repeat the same mistake as its past South sibling! *Accept one's state gracefully* and *live with reality* and *do not push one's luck*!!"

I wrote such line (in bold) because the size of China and Vietnam differ very much, no similarity at all! In NO way can Vietnam match China... just look at the mirror but more importantly hang the world map high to remember and memorize it!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

samsara said:


> BUT CHINA IS IN NO WAY OF SIMILAR SIZE WITH VIETNAM!! NO SUCH IF IN THIS UNIVERSE
> 
> _Read again my earlier lines:_ "I hope the modern Vietnam won't repeat the same mistake as its past South sibling! *Accept one's state gracefully* and *live with reality* and *do not push one's luck*!!"
> 
> I wrote such line (in bold) because the size of China and Vietnam differ very much, no similarity at all! In NO way can Vietnam match China... just look at the mirror but more importantly hang the world map high to remember and memorize it!


Yes I know the balance of powers otherwise we will force you to eat all fake maps with silly dotted lines on them.


----------



## terranMarine

superiority complex cannot be cured sadly, having big mouths won't change the fact Vietnam was dominated by China for over a 1000 years and when the French arrived (smaller in numbers than the Viets) they turned them into their slaves.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Star Expedition

Viet said:


> Wrong again. Powerful Japan? Japanese pirates only tried one time and never again. I believe we beat them too hard.
> 
> 
> You are famous as coward, only good in attacking Vietnam when we face multiple threats from inside and outside. If China is of similar size and population we will slap you one in the morning, one in lunch time and one before we go to bed. And nothing you can't do.





Some Vietnam people are really funny.
We can't live without them in this forum. either wise it is like a desert.

They have a very brilliant history in their mind and a superpower feeling in their heart.

The only unbreakable power is the USA.
But the Vietnam defeated them badly by themselves.
So actually Vietnam is the Big Brother behind.



kecho said:


> *Japan Is Becoming Player in South China Sea Sovereignty Dispute*
> March 20, 2017 4:47 AM
> 
> Ralph Jennings
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FILE - A helicopter lands on the Izumo, Japan Maritime Self Defense Force's (JMSDF) helicopter carrier, at JMSDF Yokosuka base in Yokosuka, south of Tokyo, Japan, Dec. 6, 2016.
> 
> TAIPEI —
> Japan is building up its influence in the South China Sea, the most widely contested body of water in Asia, to curb Chinese expansion and garner support for its broader military as well as economic interests.
> 
> In May, Japan will send its Izumo helicopter-carrying warship to the South China Sea for three months of port visits in Southeast Asia before directing it onward to the Indian Ocean for drills with the United States, according to the U.S. Naval Institute’s news website.
> 
> “You see this warship more as a multipurpose platform,” said Collin Koh, maritime security research fellow at Nanyang Technological University in Singapore. “It can do humanitarian assistance and disaster relief. It can do anti-submarine warfare, so a few signals Japan wants to send via this deployment.”
> 
> *'Causing trouble'*
> 
> Last week, China’s foreign ministry spokesperson reacted to word about the warship by urging that Tokyo “refrain from causing trouble in the region” and “respect related countries' efforts to maintain peace and stability,” according to the official Xinhua News Agency.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Japan does not claim the South China Sea, a 3.5 million-square-kilometer body of water prized for fisheries and possible undersea fuel reserves.
> 
> Six other governments call all or part of it their own, creating friction since the 1960s. Over the past decade China has angered the others by using landfill to expand tiny islets and built military installations on some to fortify its claim to about 95 percent of the sea.
> 
> Japan, which does have maritime territorial disputes with Beijing in the East China Sea, will send the ship as part of a longer-term effort to vie with China’s influence in Southeast Asian coastal states while cooperating with the United States to bolster a broader power base in Asia, analysts say.
> 
> “Like China and the U.S., Japan is trying to consolidate its role as a leader in the region,” said Jonathan Spangler, director of the Taipei-based South China Sea Think Tank. “Part of this effort involves demonstrating that it has the capacity and courage to operate in areas well beyond its own borders.”
> 
> *Island-building*
> 
> The United States hopes to stop Chinese island-building in the South China Sea and ensure freedom of navigation, an agenda that has angered Beijing but found a match in Tokyo.
> 
> Japan also cares about the safety of undersea communications infrastructure and China’s compliance with international laws, Koh said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Japan and China dispute the eight uninhabited Senkaku Islands in the East China Sea. Analysts say Tokyo’s influence in Southeast Asia, along with its close U.S. security relationship, could draw wider sympathy to its Senkaku claim.
> 
> Tokyo controls the islets, which are 200 nautical miles (370 kilometers) southeast of Okinawa and called the Diaoyudao in China. It regularly reports spotting Chinese military aircraft flying over nearby waters.
> 
> Japan wants to form a “united front” with Southeast Asian countries, said Carl Thayer, emeritus professor of politics at The University of New South Wales in Australia. Brunei, Malaysia, Vietnam and the Philippines contest parts of China’s maritime claims in the South China Sea.
> 
> “It does not want the Senkakus to be just an isolated incident. Broader context is China’s assertiveness and growing power in the Indo-Pacific,” he said. “The endgame is stability and getting China to stand down on assertive actions on the Senkakus.”
> 
> *Economic influence*
> 
> China and Japan already vie for economic influence in Southeast Asia, a hotbed for investment and a vibrant consumer market of about 600 million people.
> 
> Japan has given the region development aid since the 1950s. Last year it pledged to raise the amount. The aid builds political relations while keeping doors open for low-cost investment by Japanese factories.
> 
> Vietnam and the Philippines are exploring ways to cooperate with China over the disputed sea, adding urgency for Japan. China offers aid and investment to much of Southeast Asia as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A satellite image shows what CSIS Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative says appears to be concrete structures with retractable roofs on the artificial island Fiery Cross reefs, South China Sea, in this image released on February 22, 2017.
> 
> Japan’s foreign ministry said last year it hoped China would “comply with” a July 2016 world arbitration court ruling against the Chinese claim to about 95 percent of the sea. The Philippines had filed for the arbitration. China rejected the ruling.
> 
> “Japan is continuously proactive in terms of providing assistance to the ASEAN (Association of Southeast Asian Nations) countries in terms of conducting ... patrols in the region and also sending the warships to ASEAN countries, very much in line with their emphasis on the rule-based behavior,” said Andrew Yang, secretary-general with the Chinese Council of Advanced Policy Studies think tank in Taiwan.
> 
> China’s dialogue with other countries had “improved” relations in the region, Xinhua said.
> 
> Beijing distrusts Japan for what it perceives as an unrepentant stance for its pre-World War Two invasion of mainland China. It also frets over the Japan-U.S. military alliance that U.S. Defense Secretary James Mattis reaffirmed in February.
> 
> *Japanese influence*
> 
> China is used to Japan’s influence in Southeast Asia, analysts say.
> 
> Japan sent three amphibious ships to the Philippines in 2013 for relief after Typhoon Haiyan killed about 6,300 people in the Southeast Asian country.
> 
> Last year, Japan gave the Philippines two patrol vessels and said it would lease training aircraft, adding to an earlier offer of 10 coast guard ships to an otherwise militarily weak nation. Japan agreed in 2014 to sell Vietnam six used maritime surveillance vessels and two months ago pledged to sell it six new patrol ships.
> 
> The Chinese foreign ministry spokesperson said Japan “had inflamed the (South China Sea) issue recently, much to the dissatisfaction of the Chinese people,” Xinhua reported. Unless Japan shifts direction, the news agency said, “China will definitely respond to any action that harms China's sovereignty and security.”
> 
> Expect a "continuation" of Japanese military cooperation in Southeast Asia, Thayer said.
> http://www.voanews.com/a/japan-player-south-china-sea-sovereignty-dispute/3773376.html





Believe it or not, we hope they get involved.
If they love peace, we can't even find an excuse to beat them.



kecho said:


> you are Hua chinese Singaporian as I said.
> 
> *Vietnamese in Germany protest China's militarization of contested waters*
> By Minh Duc April 25, 2017 | 08:45 am GMT+7
> *Over 100 protesters gathered to condemn China's actions in the Spratly and Paracel archipelagos.*
> 
> 
> More than 100 Vietnamese nationals living in Germany took part in a demonstration on Sunday opposite Frankfurt's central station to protest against China's militarization of the South China Sea, which Vietnam calls the East Sea.
> 
> Protesters raised Vietnamese flags and German flags as well as banners in Vietnamese, German and English calling for China to halt all actions on Vietnam's Truong Sa (Spratly Islands) and Hoang Sa (Paracel Islands).
> 
> They also condemned Beijing's so-called "nine-dash line" and demanded that China comply with international law and respect the verdict of the Permanent Court of Arbitration's tribunal last July. The crowd sang “Noi Vong Tay Lon” (“Join Hands”) and other revolutionary songs to demonstrate their desire to defend Vietnam's sovereignty.
> 
> The protest's organizers also sent a letter to the Chinese Consulate in Frankfurt demanding that Beijing end all activities that could cause tension in the South China Sea.
> 
> Many Germans took part in the protest in support of Vietnam's policy to resolve disputes by peaceful means and in accordance with international law, and to condemn China's monopolization of the South China Sea.
> 
> Participants distributed flyers and brochures to locals and tourists in the area about Vietnam's sovereignty and evidence of China's increased military moves in the South China Sea.
> 
> This is the first demonstration by the Vietnamese community in Germany this year, and the sixteenth since China illegally moved an oil platform into Vietnam's waters in 2014.
> http://e.vnexpress.net/news/news/vi...litarization-of-contested-waters-3575210.html



I feel we are in siege now...
What can we do then?
Build more carrier groups for self-protection.




Viet said:


> Yes I know the balance of powers otherwise we will force you to eat all fake maps with silly dotted lines on them.




What a lovely child.
There is no balance at all. Just changing powers.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cochine

samsara said:


> POOR VIETS... please come over South China Sea  ha ha ha



Many oversea Vietnamese visited our Island in Spratly, many time.





terranMarine said:


> superiority complex cannot be cured sadly, having big mouths won't change the fact Vietnam was dominated by China for over a 1000 years and when the French arrived (smaller in numbers than the Viets) they turned them into their slaves.



Mongolian , Manchurian and Japanese were smaller numbers than you, Hua Chinese.


----------



## sinait

kecho said:


> Hokkien people is the Guest People in your homeland in China. what does it means ?


You have this habit of assigning homeland to others. Two can play the game. I notice that you talk like an Indian. Do you happen to have Indian ancestry. I suggest you ask your mom about it.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## terranMarine

kecho said:


> Mongolian , Manchurian andJapanese were smaller numbers than you, Hua Chinese.


So? Do you see Chinese brag about numbers? The one who is talking with a big mouth is Viet. Don't worry when time comes we shall send more of your brethren to join your fallen ones in the depth of SCS. You can volunteer to join them too if you are as brave as the big mouth of yours. We shall continue to haunt you for eternity with the millenium domination and that is the source of your inferiority.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## TaiShang

sinait said:


> It was never a big problem. The 1st time I visited our Civil Service College, I was so surprised to see so many PRC personnel there for training. Our interest are deeply entrenched as well as large section of the populace have close relatives in China. The Chinese here speak and write simplified Chinese, unlike HK and Taiwan. The relationship may have bumps along the way but will never be impaired.



Well said. There were some people here pinning their hope on an anti-China alliance in this region led by the US. I have always believed that the leaderships in our region has always been more prudent, historical and forward-looking to be played out by the US - than the leaderships, say, in the Middle East. Hence, we may have bumpy relations here and there, but, what we abhor the most is to let our region go into flames while the US watches from a safe distance.

In the end, people killed and people killing will always be the same people in our region. We are so closely and deeply intertwined.



ahojunk said:


> Aha. It looks like both countries have gone past the Terrex incident.
> 
> Now, they are back on better terms and holding exchange activities. Good for these two countries.



That's very good. I think the Taiwan weapons sale incident has been handled through silent, backdoor diplomacy. In some instances, keeping the laymen outside the high politics is the best option because large crowds tend to be emotional, short-memoried, and hasty. 

***

*China begins deep-sea probe in South China Sea*
Xinhua, April 25, 2017

Chinese scientists embarked on *a deep-sea mission in the South China Sea on Tuesday*, the beginning of the second stage of China's 38th oceanic expedition.




Crew members check China's manned deep-sea submersible Jiaolong in Sanya, south China's Hainan Province, April 8, 2017. [Photo/Xinhua]


China's manned submersible Jiaolong with her crew of scientists arrived in the location aboard the mother ship Xiangyanghong 09 on Tuesday.

The submersible is expected to conduct its first South China Sea dive this year on Wednesday if the weather conditions allow, according to Wu Changbin, general commander of the second stage of the expedition.

During the mission, which lasts until May 13, *scientists hope to choose a site for experimenting the collection of polymetallic nodules and complete geological and biological surveys.*

The 38th oceanic scientific expedition started on Feb. 6. Jiaolong completed a dive in the northwestern Indian Ocean earlier this year in the mission's first stage. It will also conduct surveys in the Yap Trench and the Mariana Trench in the third stage.

Named after a mythical dragon, Jiaolong reached its deepest depth of 7,062 meters in the Mariana Trench in June 2012.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Star Expedition

kecho said:


> Many oversea Vietnamese visited our Island in Spratly, many time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mongolian , Manchurian and Japanese were smaller numbers than you, Hua Chinese.





No matter how many native or overseas Vietnamese visit any place. It won't change anything.
Just give out more tickets.

No matter what history you or other nations created, it won't mean the same history is showing.
The only way to get it again is to visit your museums . There is no entry limits.

We Chinese give one same answer to all questions.
We are builders.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Viet

terranMarine said:


> So? Do you see Chinese brag about numbers? The one who is talking with a big mouth is Viet. Don't worry when time comes we shall send more of your brethren to join your fallen ones in the depth of SCS. You can volunteer to join them too if you are as brave as the big mouth of yours. We shall continue to haunt you for eternity with the millennium domination and that is the source of your inferiority.


If there are prizes for most humorless Chinese clowns, you will win the first prize.


----------



## terranMarine

Viet said:


> If there are prizes for most humorless Chinese clowns, you will win the first prize.


Chinese have lots of humor dealing with Viets especially the inferior types. Just as how we send your brethren to the depths of SCS with great humor. Today i had a great laugh seeing our new AC lowering into water and our 3rd one is already under construction. Soon more assets will be in SCS and we shall see who is doing the crapping in his pants. The 1006 years domination is not enough if it was up to me i would rule you mothafuckers with our iron fists and extend to 2000 years how's that for some humor?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Star Expedition

Viet said:


> If there are prizes for most humorless Chinese clowns, you will win the first prize.




And you and other Vietnamese here will definitely win the Life Awards.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

terranMarine said:


> Chinese have lots of humor dealing with Viets especially the inferior types. Just as how we send your brethren to the depths of SCS with great humor. Today i had a great laugh seeing our new AC lowering into water and our 3rd one is already under construction. Soon more assets will be in SCS and we shall see who is doing the crapping in his pants. The 1006 years domination is not enough if it was up to me i would rule you mothafuckers with our iron fists and extend to 2000 years how's that for some humor?


I wonder why a humourless person like you always talks of Chinese rule over Vietnam that today nobody remembers of. It is like the Turks talk of their empire. It is ridiculous annoying the people. Less in human casualties like you always want everyone to remember. Should we talk of what the Mongol, the Manchu did to you or the Japanese? Don't you feel no shame?

Ok you float the AC, while we float a giant oil rig. Your vessel can ram the Malaysians. The company Yinson will build $1 billion floating platform for Vietnam ha ha ha. What can you do? Running amok? Ha ha ha. Writing more insulting humorless post? Ha ha ha.

http://www.theedgemarkets.com/article/yinson-bags-vietnam-charter-contract-worth-rm44-bil


----------



## terranMarine

Viet said:


> I wonder why a humourless person like you always talks of Chinese rule over Vietnam that today nobody remembers of. It is like the Turks talk of their empire. It is ridiculous annoying the people. Less in human casualties like you always want everyone to remember. Should we talk of what the Mongol, the Manchu did to you or the Japanese? Don't you feel no shame?



Shame? Why not look at your own post #11740
Who was it again who keeps talking about Japanese pirates? Talking about the past is you or have you become a blind ape that you don't see yourself talking about the past while pointing fingers at Chinese? 

If you don't like the past then don't start, if you don't wanna stop then why should we stop reminding readers of Vietnam being dominated by China for 1006 years. No country have been a colony for so long as Vietnam, this is the most humiliating part.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## GS Zhou

A new sea water desalination station starts the operation in China's Zhaoshu Island. The system is powered by solar panel and wind turbine, i.e. no diesel required. Nice progress!







Blue sky, blue sea. On the beach, the towers, photovoltaic panels such as large blue lenses ... ... open the phone in this picture taken from the South China Sea three sand a reef, Jiangsu Fenghai new energy desalination Seawater Development Co., Ltd. R & D manager Wang Fujia look Pride: "scenery complementary micro - network equipment stand up, the island fishermen finally thirsty.
　　This is China's first set of new energy desalination of marine equipment in the domestic field applications. April 20, the island's new energy "sea fresh water" after the Hainan Provincial Product Quality Supervision and Inspection by the test, the indicators are standard.
　　Vertical fan, the island to drink "water" no longer oil
　　Wang Fu home phone scenery, thousands of miles away in the island on the island of a reef, the fisherman Xie Shengqing pushed the windows can be seen: "This is the island's new landmark! The sea of water, flow out from the home faucet, Can be directly drunk. Return to the waves of fishermen, every day can wash hot bath.
　　"53 years old Xie Shengqing told reporters that in 2009, he bought a 10-ton ship, the fishermen hit the shore of seafood shipped out to sell, while to go into the three Sand Yongxing Island ship "water", come back to everyone. "Every time five or six tons, the island 150 people to eat, drinking water are tight with, take a bath to wait for the rain, although this time, transport water can only be maintained for ten days.
　　In order to add fresh water to fishermen, in 2014, Sansha City to the island to install desalination of seawater equipment, fishermen drink the first "sea fresh water." "Desalination of sea water by diesel engine power generation, encountered bad weather, supply the ship can not get out of the sea, the water on the cut." Xie Shengqing frankly, "although the 'sea fresh water', but less water, the island was living 500 people, laundry cooking Still can not be used open.
　　"At that time the 'sea fresh water' is a two reverse osmosis water, supply is insufficient. *Today, the scenery is complementary to micro-network 24 hours running, 100 tons of sunrise, the island residents of adequate water, and even can provide residents of the nearby reefs, After three reverse osmosis, the water is more clean.* "New Year's Day this year, Wang Fu family led the island, has just set up a new energy Haiban equipment successful water. Xie Shengqing emotion: "the island 'scenery' plenty, the sea inexhaustible, green energy for water, after the water is no longer rely on oil.
　　Fenghai company technical director Xu Weiguo introduction, this set of intelligent equipment can automatically run, but also power storage, the island wind energy, solar energy complementary, smooth electricity, water worry. At present, the daily management of equipment has been trained by local fishermen took over.

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Star Expedition

terranMarine said:


> Shame? Why not look at your own post #11740
> Who was it again who keeps talking about Japanese pirates? Talking about the past is you or have you become a blind ape that you don't see yourself talking about the past while pointing fingers at Chinese?
> If you don't like the past then don't start, if you don't wanna stop then why should we stop reminding readers of Vietnam being dominated by China for 1006 years. No country have been a colony for so long as Vietnam, this is the most humiliating part.




You should


GS Zhou said:


> A new sea water desalination station starts the operation in China's Zhaoshu Island. The system is powered by solar panel and wind turbine, i.e. No diesel required. Nice progress!
> View attachment 393260
> 
> 
> 
> 蔚蓝的天、湛蓝的海。沙滩上，风机高耸，光伏电板如大块蓝色镜片……打开手机里这张摄自南海三沙某岛礁的照片，江苏丰海新能源淡化海水发展有限公司研发部经理王福家一脸自豪：“风光互补微网设备立起来，海岛渔民终于解了渴。”
> 这是我国首台套新能源淡化海水设备在国内的实地应用。4月20日，该岛新能源“海淡水”经过海南省产品质量监督检验所检测，各项指标均达标。
> 立风机，海岛喝“水”不再烧油
> 王福家手机里的风景，在千里之外的三沙岛一处岛礁上，渔民谢胜清推开家中窗户就能看到：“这是岛上新地标！海里的水，从家中水龙头流出来，可直接喝。风浪里归来的渔民，每天还能洗上热水澡。”
> “以前岛上缺水，你想象不出用水有多难。”53岁的谢胜清告诉记者，2009年，他买来一条10吨船，把渔民打上岸的海鲜运出去卖，同时去开进三沙永兴岛的大船“接水”，回来分给大家。“每次接五六吨，岛上150人吃饭、饮水都紧着用，洗澡就等天下雨。尽管这样，运一次水也只能维持十天。”
> 为给渔民补充淡水，2014年，三沙市给该岛安装淡化海水设备，渔民们喝上了第一口“海淡水”。“淡化海水靠柴油机发电，遇到恶劣天气，补给船出不了海，水就断供。”谢胜清坦言，“虽然有了‘海淡水’，但出水少，岛上当时生活着500人，洗衣做饭依然不能敞开用。”
> “那时的‘海淡水’是一二级反渗透水，补给不足。*如今风光互补微网24小时运转，日出水100吨，岛上居民用水充足，甚至还可以供给附近岛礁居民。而且，经过三级反渗透，出水更洁净。*”今年元旦前一天，王福家带队登岛，刚刚架起的新能源海淡设备成功出水。谢胜清感慨：“岛上‘风光’充沛，海水取之不尽，绿色能源换水源，以后用水不再靠烧油。”
> 丰海公司技术总监许卫国介绍，这套智能化设备能自动运行，也能蓄电，岛上风能、太阳能互补，用电畅通，出水无忧。目前，设备日常管理已由当地培训过的渔民接手。




With this equipment, we would play make South Sea our holiday land

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

21.04.2017

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## cirr

Ode to the Motherland, performed by the BBC Symphony Orchestra

http://weibo.com/tv/v/EFS6dzzvS?fid=1034:d271509fd2bc545813ac6644b83e088d

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Star Expedition

We are changing south sea to seaside

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## grey boy 2

ALL islands constructions will be completed before 2018 (2017-04-21 渚碧岛 实况图：据说2018年前将完成南海所有岛礁建设！)

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## grey boy 2

Chinese navy port visiting Philippines for the 1st time in 7 years 
中国军舰7年来首次抵菲律宾纳卯市访问 (credits to ccl)
菲律宾商报讯：3艘中国海军军舰将自明天起，前往纳卯市访问3天，彰显双方日益升温的关系。这是2010年4月以来，首次有中国军舰访问菲律宾。
东棉兰佬军区昨天发布通告说，导弹驱逐舰长春号、导弹护卫舰荆州号以及综合补给舰巢湖号将由东海舰队副司令员沈浩率领，于明天航进纳卯港，进行亲善访问直到5月2日。杜特尔特总统预期将登舰参观。

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Star Expedition

grey boy 2 said:


> ALL islands constructions will be completed before 2018 (2017-04-21 渚碧岛 实况图：据说2018年前将完成南海所有岛礁建设！)




Our south sea is our holiday sea.

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## samsara

cirr said:


> Ode to the Motherland, performed by the BBC Symphony Orchestra
> 
> http://weibo.com/tv/v/EFS6dzzvS?fid=1034:d271509fd2bc545813ac6644b83e088d


Funny on how you mentioned a song here  like the most this version by Guo Rong 郭蓉, quite powerful in her singing!

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## grey boy 2

PLAN Philippines port visit updates: welcome ceremony (中国海军远航访问编队今抵达菲律宾访问




】当地时间4月31日13时，中国海军远航访问编队抵达菲律宾南部城市达沃，开始为期三天的友好访问。这是中国海军远航访问编队出访第一站，也是中国海军舰艇编队首次访问达沃。菲律宾青年跳起民族舞蹈欢迎中国海军舰艇编队，达沃市市长萨拉·杜特)

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## samsara

TaiShang said:


> Well said. *There were some people here pinning their hope on an anti-China alliance in this region led by the US*. I have always believed that the leaderships in our region has always been more prudent, historical and forward-looking to be played out by the US - than the leaderships, say, in the Middle East. Hence, we may have bumpy relations here and there, but, *what we abhor the most is to let our region go into flames while the US watches from a safe distance*.
> 
> *In the end, people killed and people killing will always be the same people in our region. We are so closely and deeply intertwined.*
> 
> 
> 
> That's very good. I think the Taiwan weapons sale incident has been handled through silent, backdoor diplomacy. In some instances, *keeping the laymen outside the high politics is the best option because large crowds tend to be emotional, short-memoried, and hasty*.
> [...] /removed


It's imperative to make sure that the next time the US starts a conflict with any major power, incl. China, its continental US won't be safe, will not go untouched like in the WW2 or many wars after that. One of the main reasons the US is quite fond of starting a war is because so far, the CONUS is safe, so they have no war trauma! However the Russian Federation has been declared openly that it won't let this thing happen again in any serious conflict between RUS - USA... the CONUS won't be safe. Here from Express (UK).

----------

*Ganquan Island 甘泉岛 - Xisha Islands 西沙群岛, South China Sea*

Amazing scenery of Ganquan Island 甘泉岛 in South China Sea! *It has underground fresh water!*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/858448350852599808

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## TaiShang

cirr said:


> 21.04.2017



That's some serious engineering, turning small islands into inhabitable cities, as per UNCLOS.

***



grey boy 2 said:


> PLAN Philippines port visit updates: welcome ceremony (中国海军远航访问编队今抵达菲律宾访问
> 
> 
> 
> 】当地时间4月31日13时，中国海军远航访问编队抵达菲律宾南部城市达沃，开始为期三天的友好访问。这是中国海军远航访问编队出访第一站，也是中国海军舰艇编队首次访问达沃。菲律宾青年跳起民族舞蹈欢迎中国海军舰艇编队，达沃市市长萨拉·杜特)



You know this will break some hearts over this board.



samsara said:


> It's imperative to make sure that the next time the US starts a conflict with any major power, incl. China, its continental US won't be safe, goes untouched like in the WW2 or many wars after that. One of the main reasons the US is quite fond of starting a war is because so far, the CONUS is safe, so they have no war trauma! However the Russian Federation has been declared openly that it won't let this thing happen again in any serious conflict between RUS - USA... the CONUS won't be safe. Here from Express (UK).



Definitely agree. The only way to keep the US in check is to assure them that in case of an aggression, their mainland won't be saved.

The US should not just worry about some minority expandables located in Japan, Korea and Guam. 

***

*Chinese submersible retrieves seamount sample in South China Sea*
Xinhua | Updated: 2017-04-30 

_Jiaolong_, China's manned submersible on Saturday retrieved a basalt sample from the Zhenbei Seamount in the South China Sea which scientists say could shed light on the formation and evolution of seamounts in the area.

_Jiaolong_ stayed underwater for nine and a half hours in its third dive in the second stage of China's 38th ocean scientific expedition, which will last until May 13. 

The maximum depth of the dive was 2,930 meters beneath the sea surface. 

Aside from the five-kilogram basalt sample, it also brought back samples of sediments and seawater near the seabed as well as biosamples, in addition to high-definition photos and video footages. 

"It is not easy (to acquire such a basalt sample). This valuable 'rock' will lay the foundation for our study of formation and evolvement of seamounts in the South China Sea during the Cenozoic period," said Shi Xuefa, a researcher with the State Oceanic Administration. 

"It is very important for the study of the region's structural evolution," Shi said. 

Jiaolong has already completed two dives in the South China Sea on Wednesday and Thursday. A fourth dive has been planned on Sunday.@ The 38th oceanic scientific expedition started on Feb 6. _Jiaolong_ completed a dive in the northwestern Indian Ocean earlier this year in the mission's first stage. It will also conduct surveys in the Yap Trench and the Mariana Trench in the third stage. "

Named after a mythical dragon, _Jiaolong_ reached its deepest depth of 7,062 meters in the Mariana Trench in June 2012.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## samsara

*China begins deep-sea probe in South China Sea*

Xinhua | 2017-04-26





China's manned submersible Jiaolong begins its first South China Sea dive this year on April 26, 2017.[Photo/Xinhua]​
ONBOARD SHIP *XIANGYANGHONG 09* - Chinese scientists embarked on a *deep-sea mission in the South China Sea* on Tuesday, the beginning of the second stage of *China's 38th oceanic expedition*.

China's manned submersible _Jiaolong_ with her crew of scientists arrived in the location aboard the mother ship _Xiangyanghong 09_ on Tuesday.





China's manned submersible Jiaolong begins its first South China Sea dive this year on April 26, 2017. [Photo/Xinhua]​
The submersible is expected to conduct its first South China Sea dive this year on Wednesday if the weather conditions allow, according to Wu Changbin, general commander of the second stage of the expedition.

During the mission, which lasts until May 13, scientists hope to choose a site for experimenting the collection of polymetallic nodules and complete geological and biological surveys.





China's manned submersible Jiaolong begins its first South China Sea dive this year on April 26, 2017. [Photo/Xinhua]​
The 38th oceanic scientific expedition started on Feb. 6. Jiaolong completed a dive in the northwestern Indian Ocean earlier this year in the mission's first stage. It will also conduct surveys in the Yap Trench and the Mariana Trench in the third stage.

*Named after a mythical dragon, Jiaolong reached its deepest depth of 7,062 meters in the Mariana Trench in June 2012.*





China's manned submersible Jiaolong begins its first South China Sea dive this year on April 26, 2017. [Photo/Xinhua]​




China's manned submersible Jiaolong begins its first South China Sea dive this year on April 26, 2017. [Photo/Xinhua]​

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Star Expedition

samsara said:


> *China begins deep-sea probe in South China Sea*
> 
> Xinhua | 2017-04-26
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China's manned submersible Jiaolong begins its first South China Sea dive this year on April 26, 2017.[Photo/Xinhua]​
> ONBOARD SHIP *XIANGYANGHONG 09* - Chinese scientists embarked on a *deep-sea mission in the South China Sea* on Tuesday, the beginning of the second stage of *China's 38th oceanic expedition*.
> 
> China's manned submersible _Jiaolong_ with her crew of scientists arrived in the location aboard the mother ship _Xiangyanghong 09_ on Tuesday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China's manned submersible Jiaolong begins its first South China Sea dive this year on April 26, 2017. [Photo/Xinhua]​
> The submersible is expected to conduct its first South China Sea dive this year on Wednesday if the weather conditions allow, according to Wu Changbin, general commander of the second stage of the expedition.
> 
> During the mission, which lasts until May 13, scientists hope to choose a site for experimenting the collection of polymetallic nodules and complete geological and biological surveys.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China's manned submersible Jiaolong begins its first South China Sea dive this year on April 26, 2017. [Photo/Xinhua]​
> The 38th oceanic scientific expedition started on Feb. 6. Jiaolong completed a dive in the northwestern Indian Ocean earlier this year in the mission's first stage. It will also conduct surveys in the Yap Trench and the Mariana Trench in the third stage.
> 
> *Named after a mythical dragon, Jiaolong reached its deepest depth of 7,062 meters in the Mariana Trench in June 2012.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China's manned submersible Jiaolong begins its first South China Sea dive this year on April 26, 2017. [Photo/Xinhua]​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China's manned submersible Jiaolong begins its first South China Sea dive this year on April 26, 2017. [Photo/Xinhua]​




we have to do such thing to keep our sea ours.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TaiShang

*Philippines open to joint war drills with China: Duterte*
Xinhua | Updated: 2017-05-01 





Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte speaks during a news conference after concluding the 30th Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) summit in Manila, Philippines April 29, 2017. [Photo/Agencies]

MANILA -- Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte said on Monday that he is open to the idea of conducting joint military exercises with China.

"I agree (to the idea).* They can have joint exercise(s) here in Mindanao, maybe in the Sulu Sea,*" Duterte told reporters after visiting the Chinese warship docked in Davao City wharf.

Duterte said he was very impressed by the Chinese warship. "*It's very impressive. It's all carpeted. It's so beautiful. Inside, it's like a luxury hotel," he told reporters, "It's clean!"*

He said the visit to the warship is part of the confidence building and good will between Manila and Beijing.

A Chinese naval fleet has begun a three-day friendly visit after arriving Sunday at Davao City in the southeastern region of The Philippines.

@kecho , @Viet , @terranMarine

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## samsara

*Duterte open to joint exercises with China in Sulu Sea*

Published May 1, 2017 5:37pm
By Trisha Macas, GMA News

*President Rodrigo Duterte on Monday said that he was open to have joint exercises with China not only in the South China Sea but also in the Sulu Sea.*

Duterte made the remark after visiting China's flagship destroyer Changchun that docked at the Sasa Port in Davao City.

“_Yes, I said I agree. We can have joint exercises in Mindanao, maybe in the Sulu Sea,_” Duterte told reporters.

Duterte as early as October last year, Duterte said he was open to have military exercises with China and Russia in the South China Sea.

He indicated then that he would end war games with the United States.

The Philippines has claims that overlap with those of China in the South China Sea.

Duterte only had praises for the Chinese warship, which had an array of arms, including missile launchers.





Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte pays a visit to the Chinese warship in Davao City, May 01, 2017​
“_Very impressive. It’s clean, and even the carpeting—it’s all carpeted inside. It’s like a hotel, actually,_” Duterte said.

He also said that the port call was part of confidence-building and goodwill.

“_And to show we are friends, that’s why I welcomed them here, and I am the one who asked for it. ‘Show me your warships,’_” he said.

Duterte denied that the Chinese military offered aid to the Philippines’ forces.

“The military is not allowed to do that, they’re only authorized to talk within their own ambit of ships. But very limited information,” Duterte said. —NB, GMA News

http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/news...-joint-exercises-with-china-in-sulu-sea/story

* * * * *

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## samsara

*Duterte inspects China warships, jokes of missiles pointed to PH*

During a tour highlighting China's growing military might, Duterte writes a message of peace on a warship's guest book: 'Weather the waves, journey on seas of peace, freedom and friendship'

By Pia Ranada - RAPPLER
Published 11:25 PM, May 01, 2017
Updated 2:00 AM, May 02, 2017





MILITARY MIGHT. Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte inspects various equipment aboard
Chinese guided missile destroyer Chang Chun. Malacañang photo, 2017-05-01​
*DAVAO CITY, Philippines* – While President Rodrigo Duterte said the visit of 3 Chinese warships to his hometown prove the friendly ties between the Philippines and China, he was quick to point out another observation: the Asian giant's military might and the risks this poses to his country.

"_Very impressive,_" said Duterte about the warships on Monday, May 1, during a chance interview with reporters.

"_It's run by a computer and look at the way their missile launchers are pointed at us. It will be lowered a little. At the angle, sabog tayo dito lahat (we'll all get blown up),_" he joked.

The 3 ships Duterte inspected are *China's guided missile destroyer Chang Chun (DDG150)*, *guided missile frigate Jin Zhou (FFG532)*, and *type 903 replenishment ship Chao Hu (890)*.

All are docked in *Davao City's Sasa Wharf* until Tuesday, May 2.

"_It is part really of confidence-building and goodwill. And to show that we are friends,_" said the Philippine President.





VISITING WARSHIP. Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte is given a tour inside the Chang Chun
with Chinese Ambassador Zhao Jianhua. Malacañang photo, 2017-05-01​
It was he, apparently, who asked China to let him aboard their warships.

"_That's why I welcome them here and I was the one who asked it, 'Show me your warships,'_" said Duterte.

He was accompanied during the inspection by Chinese Ambassador Zhao Jianhua, Philippine Defense Secretary Delfin Lorenzana, and Chinese navy officers.

Though the tour impressed upon him China's military might, Duterte's message in guided missile destroyer Chang Chun's guest book was one of peace.

"_Weather the waves, journey on seas of peace, freedom and friendship,_" wrote Duterte.









'SEAS OF PEACE.' The Philippine President writes a message of peace as he signs Chang Chun's guest book. (2017-05-01)​
*First visit in years*

It has been 7 years since Chinese warships docked at a Philippine port. The last time was in 2010 under the administration of *Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo*, who was also on friendly terms with Beijing.

During the administration of Arroyo's successor, *Benigno Aquino III*, no Chinese warship visited the Philippines. It was under the Aquino presidency that the Philippines filed a case against China for its expansive claim in the South China Sea (West Philippine Sea) before an international court.

The move angered China. It was not until Duterte's state visit to Beijing last year that diplomatic ties were "fully restored."





CAPABILITIES. Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte is briefed about the Chinese warships.​
The visit of the Chinese warships came after the end of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) Summit chaired by Duterte.

Under his leadership, Southeast Asian leaders acquiesced to China's demands to leave out any mention of the arbitral award won by the Philippines in Duterte's chairman's statement.

Their soft stance toward Beijing is said to signal China's growing influence over the region. *Warships in Duterte's hometown also indicate his determination to be on China's good side.*

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## hirobo2

samsara said:


> *Duterte inspects China warships, jokes of missiles pointed to PH*
> 
> During a tour highlighting China's growing military might, Duterte writes a message of peace on a warship's guest book: 'Weather the waves, journey on seas of peace, freedom and friendship'
> 
> By Pia Ranada - RAPPLER
> Published 11:25 PM, May 01, 2017
> Updated 2:00 AM, May 02, 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MILITARY MIGHT. Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte inspects various equipment aboard
> Chinese guided missile destroyer Chang Chun. Malacañang photo, 2017-05-01​
> *DAVAO CITY, Philippines* – While President Rodrigo Duterte said the visit of 3 Chinese warships to his hometown prove the friendly ties between the Philippines and China, he was quick to point out another observation: the Asian giant's military might and the risks this poses to his country.
> 
> "_Very impressive,_" said Duterte about the warships on Monday, May 1, during a chance interview with reporters.
> 
> "_It's run by a computer and look at the way their missile launchers are pointed at us. It will be lowered a little. At the angle, sabog tayo dito lahat (we'll all get blown up),_" he joked.
> 
> The 3 ships Duterte inspected are *China's guided missile destroyer Chang Chun (DDG150)*, *guided missile frigate Jin Zhou (FFG532)*, and *type 903 replenishment ship Chao Hu (890)*.
> 
> All are docked in *Davao City's Sasa Wharf* until Tuesday, May 2.
> 
> "_It is part really of confidence-building and goodwill. And to show that we are friends,_" said the Philippine President.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VISITING WARSHIP. Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte is given a tour inside the Chang Chun
> with Chinese Ambassador Zhao Jianhua. Malacañang photo, 2017-05-01​
> It was he, apparently, who asked China to let him aboard their warships.
> 
> "_That's why I welcome them here and I was the one who asked it, 'Show me your warships,'_" said Duterte.
> 
> He was accompanied during the inspection by Chinese Ambassador Zhao Jianhua, Philippine Defense Secretary Delfin Lorenzana, and Chinese navy officers.
> 
> Though the tour impressed upon him China's military might, Duterte's message in guided missile destroyer Chang Chun's guest book was one of peace.
> 
> "_Weather the waves, journey on seas of peace, freedom and friendship,_" wrote Duterte.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'SEAS OF PEACE.' The Philippine President writes a message of peace as he signs Chang Chun's guest book. (2017-05-01)​
> *First visit in years*
> 
> It has been 7 years since Chinese warships docked at a Philippine port. The last time was in 2010 under the administration of *Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo*, who was also on friendly terms with Beijing.
> 
> During the administration of Arroyo's successor, *Benigno Aquino III*, no Chinese warship visited the Philippines. It was under the Aquino presidency that the Philippines filed a case against China for its expansive claim in the South China Sea (West Philippine Sea) before an international court.
> 
> The move angered China. It was not until Duterte's state visit to Beijing last year that diplomatic ties were "fully restored."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CAPABILITIES. Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte is briefed about the Chinese warships.​
> The visit of the Chinese warships came after the end of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) Summit chaired by Duterte.
> 
> Under his leadership, Southeast Asian leaders acquiesced to China's demands to leave out any mention of the arbitral award won by the Philippines in Duterte's chairman's statement.
> 
> Their soft stance toward Beijing is said to signal China's growing influence over the region. *Warships in Duterte's hometown also indicate his determination to be on China's good side.*



Articles like this make me sick. Enough BS talk, start constructing Scarborough Shoal already. PH won't mind.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## samsara

hirobo2 said:


> Articles like this make me sick. Enough BS talk, start constructing Scarborough Shoal already. PH won't mind.


Those Chinese leaders who are guiding through the Giant Mothership over the great waves cannot simply act as such simpleton! Time and again the history has been showing the virtues of acting wisely. Study on Zhou Enlai's great statesmanship (hint: here --see the bottom-- is a quality TV series about the life and times of Premier Zhou, worth of one's viewing time) to learn some insights.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## hirobo2

samsara said:


> Those Chinese leaders who are guiding through the Giant Mothership over the great waves cannot simply act as such simpleton! Time and again the history has been showing the virtues of acting wisely. Study on Zhou Enlai's great statesmanship to learn some insights.



They're going to miss the chance.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## TaiShang

*Submersible Jiaolong completes 4th dive in S. China Sea*

*Xinhua, May 2, 2017*

​
Chinese submersible Jiaolong completed four dives in the South China Sea within five days. [Photo/Xinhua]

Jiaolong, China's manned submersible, conducted its fourth dive Sunday around the Zhenbei Seamount in the South China Sea.

Jiaolong stayed underwater for eight hours in its fourth dive in the second stage of China's 38th ocean scientific expedition, which will last until May 13, authorities said Monday.

The maximum depth of the dive was 1,101 meters beneath the sea surface, where it retrieved a number of basalt samples.

In the meantime, it collected a 0.7-kilogram sample of foraminifer grit at the depth of 630 meters, and brought back samples of sediments and seawater near the seabed as well as high-definition photos and video footages.

"We have also caught sight of corals, sea lilies, anemones, and large fishes like sharks above 420 meters," said Yang Gang, a senior engineer on board the submersible. Yang said that the new discoveries could shed new light on the study of the South China Sea's formation and evolution, biodiversity, and the cause of the seamount chain in the area.

Instead of using trawling as a sampling method, Jiaolong is able to conduct refined sampling mission and obtain ample samples, said Shi Xuefa, a researcher with the State Oceanic Administration.

Jiaolong has completed four dives in the South China Sea within five days. The submersible has went through full maintenance on Monday, including its propelling and electrical systems.

"The 38th ocean scientific expedition will be the furthest and longest voyage for Jiaolong in terms of distance and time," said Wu Changbin, general commander of the second stage of the expedition. "Jiaolong will also complete the largest number of tasks since its operation."

The 38th oceanic scientific expedition started on Feb. 6. Jiaolong completed a dive in the northwestern Indian Ocean earlier this year in the mission's first stage. It will also conduct surveys in the Yap Trench and the Mariana Trench in the third stage.

Named after a mythical dragon, Jiaolong reached its deepest depth of 7,062 meters in the Mariana Trench in June 2012.




Chinese submersible Jiaolong completed four dives in the South China Sea within five days. [Photo/Xinhua]

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## samsara

Opinion: Visit of Chinese warships boosts relations with Philippines (Xinhua pic)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/859430444852547591




http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2017-05/02/c_136251731.htm

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## samsara

_The South China Sea issue is NOT between the U.S. and ASEAN,_
_it involves China and a few members of ASEAN: FM spokesman._

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/859750575780622339

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## samsara

*"Very impressive": Philippine President Duterte*
*visits **Chinese warship docked in hometown*





Published on May 1, 2017
Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte on Monday visited Chinese warships and appeared impressed with the vessels docked in his hometown of Davao City, highlighting fast-warming relations despite competing claims in the South China Sea.









*President Philippines Rodrigo Duterte went aboard China's flagship Type 052C destroyer Changchun
that docked at the Sasa Port in Davao City on Monday, May 1st, 2017*​

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## TaiShang

*Chinese submersible explores turbidity current in South China Sea*
Xinhua | 2017-05-08 06:53 









_Jiaolong_, China's manned submersible, is about to dive into the South China Sea, May 6, 2017. Jiaolong explored submarine turbidity currents in the South China Sea on Saturday. Three crew members in the submersible conducted surveys and sampling and measured environmental parameters. They brought back samples of sediment and seawater near the seabed as well as high-definition photos and video footage. [Photo/Xinhua]

ABOARD SHIP XIANGYANGHONG — _Jiaolong_, China's manned submersible, explored submarine turbidity currents in the South China Sea on Saturday.

With a maximum depth of 2,980 meters, _Jiaolong_ was underwater for nine hours and 54 minutes in its seventh dive in the second stage of China's 38th ocean scientific expedition, which will last until May 13.

Three crew members in the submersible conducted surveys and sampling and measured environmental parameters. They brought back samples of sediment and seawater near the seabed as well as high-definition photos and video footage.

Xu Jingping, a professor with the Ocean University of China, said China started research on submarine turbidity currents, a major challenge in geoscience, relatively late.

"The dive helped us to obtain evidence of the topographic features and sediment of modern turbidity currents in northeastern South China Sea. It enriched our scientific understanding of canyon turbidity current in the region and provided key data and technical support for future research," Xu said.

The 38th oceanic scientific expedition started on Feb. 6. Jiaolong completed a dive in the northwestern Indian Ocean earlier this year as part of the first stage of the mission. It will also conduct surveys in the Yap Trench and the Mariana Trench in the third stage.





Bi Naishuang (L), Liu Xiaohui (C) and Tang Jialing, wave after conducting a dive mission of _Jiaolong_, China's manned submersible, on May 6, 2017. Jiaolong explored submarine turbidity currents in the South China Sea on Saturday. Three crew members in the submersible conducted surveys and sampling and measured environmental parameters. They brought back samples of sediment and seawater near the seabed as well as high-definition photos and video footage. [Photo/Xinhua]

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## TaiShang

*PLA South China Sea Fleet conduct training*

People's Daily Online, May 9, 2017



​A naval aviation unit with the South China Sea Fleet of the People's Liberation Army conduct training at an unidentified airport. The unit, which goes by the name of "Hawks of Thunder", are pilots of China's advanced JH-7 fighter jets. They have recently finished their first nighttime training exercise at the newly-built airport. [Photo/Xinhua]



​A naval aviation unit with the South China Sea Fleet of the People's Liberation Army conduct training at an unidentified airport. The unit, which goes by the name of "Hawks of Thunder", are pilots of China's advanced JH-7 fighter jets. They have recently finished their first nighttime training exercise at the newly-built airport. [Photo/Xinhua]



​A naval aviation unit with the South China Sea Fleet of the People's Liberation Army conduct training at an unidentified airport. The unit, which goes by the name of "Hawks of Thunder", are pilots of China's advanced JH-7 fighter jets. They have recently finished their first nighttime training exercise at the newly-built airport. [Photo/Xinhua]



​A naval aviation unit with the South China Sea Fleet of the People's Liberation Army conduct training at an unidentified airport. The unit, which goes by the name of "Hawks of Thunder", are pilots of China's advanced JH-7 fighter jets. They have recently finished their first nighttime training exercise at the newly-built airport. [Photo/Xinhua]



​A naval aviation unit with the South China Sea Fleet of the People's Liberation Army conduct training at an unidentified airport. The unit, which goes by the name of "Hawks of Thunder", are pilots of China's advanced JH-7 fighter jets. They have recently finished their first nighttime training exercise at the newly-built airport. [Photo/Xinhua]



​A naval aviation unit with the South China Sea Fleet of the People's Liberation Army conduct training at an unidentified airport. The unit, which goes by the name of "Hawks of Thunder", are pilots of China's advanced JH-7 fighter jets. They have recently finished their first nighttime training exercise at the newly-built airport. [Photo/Xinhua]



​A naval aviation unit with the South China Sea Fleet of the People's Liberation Army conduct training at an unidentified airport. The unit, which goes by the name of "Hawks of Thunder", are pilots of China's advanced JH-7 fighter jets. They have recently finished their first nighttime training exercise at the newly-built airport. [Photo/Xinhua]

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Suff Shikan

http://www.defensenews.com/articles/satellite-images-reveal-chinese-expansion-in-south-china-sea


*Satellite images reveal Chinese expansion in South China Sea*
By: Barbara Opall-Rome, May 8, 2017 (Photo Credit: ImageSat International)
TEL AVIV, Israel — Imagery captured Monday from an ImageSat International (ISI) Eros B satellite indicates Chinese preparations for new land-based missile installations on an increasingly strategic island base in the South China Sea. 

The high-resolution imagery, shown here for the first time, reveals recent changes in the layout of the People’s Liberation Army’s Yulin Naval Base at the tip of Hainan Island in the disputed Scarborough Shoal. In less than two months, the PLA deployed multiple missile launchers on the western side of the base, deployments that ISI imagery analyst Amit Gur has concluded are anti-ship missiles. 

“The direction in which the launchers are facing leads us to believe these are shore-to-ship missiles,” Gur told Defense News. 





Photo Credit: ImageSat International

He said that similar systems had shown up in satellite data about two years ago, but had been removed in recent months to accommodate infrastructure upgrades at the site. ISI's imagery from March 15 shows an empty plateau, but by May 8 the firm’s Eros B captured a clear image of newly paved infrastructure and multiple launch sites. 

“They must have concluded renovation work, as the systems are clearly visible,” Gur said. “We just don’t know if they are new systems, or a [redeployment] of the ones that were stored during the renovation.” 

 




Defense News
Satellite imagery shows Russian AWACS back in Syria
Perhaps even more interesting, according to ISI, is progress taking place on Yulin’s eastern side. “We’re seeing the building of infrastructure that wasn’t there before and what looks like preparations for shore-to-ship missiles, just like on the western side,” company spokesman Gil Or said. 





Photo Credit: ImageSat International





Photo Credit: ImageSat International

Gur noted that expansion of the Yulin base fortifies Beijing’s strategic triangle of forward bases with which to quickly project its power well beyond neighboring Vietnam and the Philippines.


----------



## Muhammed45

South China sea
South China sea
South China sea

American idiots, it's name is on it. Go home Yankee

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Tom99

> ...Yulin Naval Base at the tip of Hainan Island in the disputed Scarborough Shoal.



The tip of Hainan Island is in the disputed Scarborough Shoal now?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## sinait

Tom99 said:


> The tip of Hainan Island is in the disputed Scarborough Shoal now?





Suff Shikan said:


> http://www.defensenews.com/articles/satellite-images-reveal-chinese-expansion-in-south-china-sea


Text from the given link:
"The high-resolution imagery, shown here for the first time, reveals recent changes in the layout of the People’s Liberation Army’s Yulin Naval Base at the tip of Hainan Island *in the disputed South China Sea*. In less than two months, the PLA deployed multiple missile launchers on the western side of the base, deployments that ISI imagery analyst Amit Gur has concluded are anti-ship missiles."

There is no mention of *Scarborough Shoal* in the original text and there is no dispute over Hainan Island portion of the South China Sea.
What's your motive for inserting "Scarborough Shoal".
@*Suff Shikan* ??

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## grey boy 2

Beautiful Nansha (南沙海市辰楼)

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Tom99

sinait said:


> There is no mention of *Scarborough Shoal* in the original text and there is no dispute over Hainan Island portion of the South China Sea.
> What's your motive for inserting "Scarborough Shoal".
> @*Suff Shikan* ??



The article was most likely edited after the writer was informed of the obvious error. The writer motive is to create fear and mistrust of China's defense development by connecting it to the South China Sea issue.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Suika

mohammad45 said:


> South China sea
> South China sea
> South China sea
> 
> American idiots, it's name is on it. Go home Yankee



The Sea of Japan does not belong to Japan.
The Philippine Sea does not belong to the Philippines.
The Indian Ocean does not belong to India.
And the South China Sea does not belong to China, just like how the East China Sea does not belong to China.


----------



## Muhammed45

@Suika

I wonder what would American supremacists do if China sends it's nuclear submarines and ACs beside destroyers to bay of pigs?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Suika

mohammad45 said:


> @Suika
> 
> I wonder what would American supremacists do if China sends it's nuclear submarines and ACs beside destroyers to bay of pigs?



The US has experienced Soviet nuclear powered submarines going into the Caribbean Sea before. What happened was that the US built SONUS to detect the submarines and they followed the submarines with naval and air assets. The US never claimed the entire Caribbean Sea to belong to the US.


----------



## Muhammed45

Suika said:


> The US has experienced Soviet nuclear powered submarines going into the Caribbean Sea before. What happened was that the US built SONUS to detect the submarines and they followed the submarines with naval and air assets. The US never claimed the entire Caribbean Sea to belong to the US.


I like Japanese people, i hope you didn't take it aggressive my friend. In my Childhood i thought Samurayis are the bravest humans in the world but what i see now is completely a different thing. Japan is stabbing NK and China. 

USA has not the right of such claim but it's military bases in Japan and S.K is an annoying thing to Japan's neighbors. Kick that bit** out of your motherland guys

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Suika

mohammad45 said:


> I like Japanese people, i hope you didn't take it aggressive my friend. In my Childhood i thought Samurayis are the bravest humans in the world but what i see now is completely a different thing. Japan is stabbing NK and China.
> 
> USA has not the right of such claim but it's military bases in Japan and S.K is an annoying thing to Japan's neighbors. Kick that bit** out of your motherland guys



Thanks for those kind words.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TaiShang

_


***

South China Sea economic and scientific development continues with China providing regional public goods. See you again in South China Sea soon, Jiaolong!_

***

*Jiaolong conducts last dive in South China Sea*
Xinhua | 2017-05-11 07:28 








_Jiaolong_, China's manned submersible, is about to dive into the South China Sea, May 10, 2017. Jiaolong conducted its last dive on Wednesday in the South China Sea during the second stage of China's 38th ocean scientific expedition. [Photo/Xinhua]

ON BOARD SHIP XIANGYANGHONG — _Jiaolong_, China's manned submersible, conducted its ninth and final dive in the South China Sea Wednesday.

_Jiaolong_ stayed underwater for nine and a half hours in its ninth dive in the second stage of China's 38th ocean scientific expedition, which will last until May 13.

The maximum depth of the dive was 1,897 meters in the Puyuan Seamount. Three crew in the submersible brought back samples of seawater from near the seabed, sediment, high-definition photographs and video footage.

The 38th oceanic scientific expedition started on Feb 6. Jiaolong completed a dive in the northwestern Indian Ocean earlier this year in the mission's first stage.

It will also conduct surveys in the Yap Trench and the Mariana Trench in the third stage. Named after a mythical dragon, _Jiaolong_ reached its deepest depth of 7,062 meters in the Mariana Trench in June 2012.





_Jiaolong_, China's manned submersible, is about to dive into the South China Sea, May 10, 2017. Jiaolong conducted its last dive on Wednesday in the South China Sea during the second stage of China's 38th ocean scientific expedition. [Photo/Xinhua]






Crew member Qi Haibin studies the route for the dive mission of _Jiaolong_, China's manned submersible, in the South China Sea, at the command base on board ship _Xiangyanghong 09_, May 9, 2017. Jiaolong conducted its last dive on Wednesday in the South China Sea during the second stage of China's 38th ocean scientific expedition. [Photo/Xinhua]





Crew members Qi Haibin (L) and Chen Yunsai enter _Jiaolong_, China's manned submersible, to conduct a dive mission in the South China Sea, May 10, 2017. Jiaolong conducted its last dive on Wednesday in the South China Sea during the second stage of China's 38th ocean scientific expedition. [Photo/Xinhua]






_Jiaolong_, China's manned submersible completes its last dive mission in the South China Sea, May 9, 2017. [Photo/Xinhua]






_Jiaolong_, China's manned submersible completes its last dive mission in the South China Sea, May 9, 2017. [Photo/Xinhua]

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cirr

*What Makes New Chinese Sea-Skimming Combat Drone Perfect for South China Sea*

Sputnik News

In-Depth Coverage

19:55 10.05.2017(updated 21:14 10.05.2017)

*Pictures have emerged on social media of a new Chinese anti-ship drone that uses ground effect technology to fly at an extremely low altitude above the water.*

The pictures show a flying vehicle with a set of forward canards and a pair of upward swept wings. The drone is painted in the blue camouflage of the Chinese Navy.

According to an article on Defense Blog, the new sea-skimming drone will be able to fly as low as 50 cm above the surface of the water. It can reach a maximum altitude of 3,000 meters and has an endurance of 1.5 hours. The drone has a maximum takeoff weight of 3,000 kilograms and can carry a 1,000 kg load.

In an interview with Sputnik China, Russian military expert Vasily Kashin said that the available information indicates that China is on the verge of creating a new type of weapon that would embody the anti-access and area denial (A2/AD) conception.

Kashin said that the drone can take off from the water and this is why it is well suited for deployment to China-controlled islets and facilities in the South China Sea. Unlike planes, the drone could be used even if airstrips on those islands are destroyed.

"Its index name begins with CH, by analogy with Rainbow-type combat unmanned aerial vehicles. Probable, the new drone was developed by the 11th academy of the China Aerospace Science and Technology Corporation (CASC)," Kashin suggested.

Media reports do not provide details on the drone's speed. Usually, ekranoplans cannot surpass 500-550 kph. The expert said that with a flight time of 1.5 hours the drone isexpected to reach up to 600 kph and to be able to fly at 1-6 meters above the water.

Kashin said that the drone has three main purposes. First, it is designed to deliver strikes at large surface targets. Second, it can be used for rapid torpedo attacks at long distances. Finally, the drone will be useful for isolating maritime areas. Due to its low altitudes, the drone will not be suitable for reconnaissance missions.

"Probably, for the first group of tasks it can carry a powerful warhead with a weight of up to 1,000 kilograms. In such a scenario, the drone is not reusable. It is slower than anti-shipmissiles. At the same time, its low flight altitude will allow for traveling slightly touching the surface of the water," the expert said.

Kashin also assumed that the unit cost of the new drone could be much lower than that of an anti-ship cruise missile, especially a supersonic missile, due to a cheaper design of its body and engine.

The expert also pointed out that China is also working on so-called swarming drone technology. This concept refers to the use of an autonomous group of drones, which can intercommunicate and distribute roles on a mission. Similar technologies were used in Russian-developed heavy-anti-ship missiles, such as the Granit and the Vulkan.

"In theory, despite its low flight speed, drones of the new type could operate in a group, distributing directions of attack between each other. Thus, they could breach the air defense of the enemy naval group. The drone could also be equipped with radio and electronic warfare devices and armored protection," Kashin said.

Moreover, according to Kashin's assumption, an attack by these new drones could be coordinated with the use of other weapons, including anti-ship cruise and ballistic missiles and combat aircraft.

*The new drone can also carry torpedoes, which makes it a kind of reusable anti-submarine missile*, Kashin added.

"In this scenario, the vehicle would fly to the target probable location area and drop a torpedo. Possibly, it could receive information on the target from an underwater monitoring system currently developed by China. It could also coordinate with anti-submarine aircraft," the expert said.

Furthermore, according to the expert, the new drone could hypothetically be used against ground targets, with the use of theChinese version of the Russian-made Shkval torpedo.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/china/2017/china-170510-sputnik01.htm

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cirr

CCG 46301

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Viet

Vietnam's President Tran Dai Quang (R) and China's President Xi Jinping inspect honour guards during a welcoming ceremony outside the Great Hall of the People, in Beijing, China May 11, 2017. REUTERS/Jason Lee REUTERS







BEIJING (Reuters) - The leaders of China and Vietnam had "positive" talks about the disputed South China Sea on Thursday with neither side criticizing the other, a senior Chinese diplomat said.

Vietnam is the country most openly at odds with China over the waterway since the Philippines pulled back from confrontation under President Rodrigo Duterte.

Speaking after Chinese President Xi Jinping met Vietnamese President Tran Dai Quang in Beijing's Great Hall of the People, Chinese Vice Foreign Minister Liu Zhenmin said the South China Sea had been brought up in their talks.

"It was discussed but the main tone was very positive," Liu told reporters.

Both agreed to follow their consensus to continue stabilizing the situation and to keep pushing talks, as well as continue joint resource exploration in less sensitive areas, like the Gulf of Tonkin, he added.

"I think that talking about the South China Sea this time is really a positive piece of news. Neither side raised any criticisms of each other. There were no voices of that were out of step," Liu said.

China claims 90 percent of the potentially energy-rich South China Sea. Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines, Vietnam and Taiwan lay claim to parts of the route, through which about $5 trillion of trade passes each year.

Last year, tensions heightened between Beijing and Hanoi after Taiwan and U.S. officials said Beijing had placed surface-to-air missiles on Woody Island, part of the Paracel archipelago which China controls.

Vietnam called China's actions a serious infringement of its sovereignty over the Paracels.

In 2014, tensions between the two communist countries peaked more dramatically when China moved an oil rig into disputed waters and protests broke out across Vietnam.

Relations have since gradually improved with a series of high level visits between the two, though the military buildup continues in the region, including China's building of airstrips on man-made islands in the South China Sea.

In comments in front of reporters, Xi told Quang he hoped to take relations to a new stage to better benefit both peoples.

Xi also praised the leadership of Vietnam for its economic reforms.

"As a comrade and neighbor, we are happy to see this," Xi said.

Quang is in Beijing to attend a weekend conference on an ambitious scheme proposed by Xi to build a new Silk Road connecting China to Asia, Europe and beyond through massive infrastructure investment.

(Reporting by Ben Blanchard; Editing by Nick Macfie)

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/a...ositive-talks-with-vietnam-on-south-china-sea

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

After Duterte came to power in the Philippines, he strengthened relations with China, leaving Vietnam alone in ASEAN to oppose China.

Even Donald Trump now calls Xi Jinping his "close friend". It looks like nobody really cares about the South China Sea anymore, at least not enough to do anything about it.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Viet

Chinese-Dragon said:


> After Duterte came to power in the Philippines, he strengthened relations with China, leaving Vietnam alone in ASEAN to oppose China.
> 
> Even Donald Trump now calls Xi Jinping his "close friend". It looks like nobody really cares about the South China Sea anymore, at least not enough to do anything about it.


I give you a friendly proposal that will serve both sides Vietnam and China interests, as well as easing the concern of international community you can blackmail all, once you take over the waterway: we share the control. You Northern half we Southern half of The SC Sea. Everyone will be happy.


----------



## Zsari

Viet said:


> I give you a friendly proposal that will serve both sides Vietnam and China interests, as well as easing the concern of international community you can blackmail all, once you take over the waterway: we share the control. You Northern half we Southern half of The SC Sea. Everyone will be happy.



South China Sea strategic value is in its sea lane. So instead of looking at north and south divide, one should instead looking at it via the western, central and eastern corridor.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

Zsari said:


> South China Sea strategic value is in its sea lane. So instead of looking at north and south divide, one should instead looking at it via the western, central and eastern corridor.


Interesting thought. Can you elaborate a bit how division of sea lanes can look like? My proposal bases on the imperative: neither side can control the waterway.


----------



## shadows888

Viet said:


> Interesting thought. Can you elaborate a bit how division of sea lanes can look like? My proposal bases on the imperative: neither side can control the waterway.



Realist geopolitics are who ever have the biggest navy will control the waterway. Always have been, always will be. Yesterday it was the british, today the americans and China. However, it may be in the interest of the biggest powers to keep the water way open especially if their economy is also export dependant.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Zsari

Viet said:


> Interesting thought. Can you elaborate a bit how division of sea lanes can look like? My proposal bases on the imperative: neither side can control the waterway.



The primary goal for China in the SCS has always been the security of its sea lane. To deny it that control is a non-starter. If you take the SCS and slice it into three vertical strips however, I think that would be a better point to start.



shadows888 said:


> Realist geopolitics are who ever have the biggest navy will control the waterway. Always have been, always will be. Yesterday it was the british, today the americans and China. However, it may be in the interest of the biggest powers to keep the water way open especially if their economy is also export dependant.



True, but I think the west side is too close to Vietnam that it will be impossible to navigate in the future if the two take a confrontational approach. Just like how China is pushing its defense perimeter away from its coast, eventually Vietnam will be able to achieve the same to a lesser degree with land based system.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## 帅的一匹

Viet said:


> Interesting thought. Can you elaborate a bit how division of sea lanes can look like? My proposal bases on the imperative: neither side can control the waterway.


Many countries have interest in SCS, if we split it then will go crazy.



Viet said:


> I give you a friendly proposal that will serve both sides Vietnam and China interests, as well as easing the concern of international community you can blackmail all, once you take over the waterway: we share the control. You Northern half we Southern half of The SC Sea. Everyone will be happy.


China and Vietnam shall improve relationship

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## iajj

Viet said:


> I give you a friendly proposal that will serve both sides Vietnam and China interests, as well as easing the concern of international community you can blackmail all, once you take over the waterway: we share the control. You Northern half we Southern half of The SC Sea. Everyone will be happy.



first, the talk of halves gives the delusion of equality, which has no root in political reality.

second, the talk of halves also excludes considerations for other countries - not that they deserve any consideration in china's sovereign waters, but the "talk" of halves that excludes them also gives the viets the sense of superiority over other southeast Asians. historically the lowly viets appropriated Chinese political philosophy and bureaucracy and used the latter to subjugate its still more southern neighbors morally and militarily. and historically the central empire had every interest in disabusing the lowly viets of that sense of moral and cultural superiority over khmers and laotians and malays. that interest is as valid and as salient as ever. any talk that gives appearance of superiority and precedence of viets' claim to those of the malays or finos must be spurned.

viets must take their place among all those marginal peoples. it is a place distinctively inferior to the central nation, and it is a place not at all distinct from those of other peripheral races. viets must be made to adhere to both points. if necessary, they must be made to relearn their rightful, lowly place through chinese military might, just as they have been ever since time immemorial.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Place Of Space

Viet said:


> I give you a friendly proposal that will serve both sides Vietnam and China interests, as well as easing the concern of international community you can blackmail all, once you take over the waterway: we share the control. You Northern half we Southern half of The SC Sea. Everyone will be happy.



No interests of your proposal. 9-dashes is very obvious.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## terranMarine

I smell the fear coming from that sh!t, it's all over the place. For years he has been talking with some tough attitude towards China with US,Japan backing up PH and VN. We already predicted the outcome long ago and right now he's proposing a deal. How sad and pathetic he looks right now, constantly trying to act tough and talking down China. In the end US backed down, his dog Abe has silenced too. PH has a smarter leader and is reaping the benefit right now. Vietcongs wooing US,JP,ASEAN alliance against China has totally backfired which we all have been saying for years. US ain't gonna send their men to die for Vietnam so they can grab the islands for free, how naive and childish that kind of behavior that is, totally deluded Viets. With DPRK issue more pressing, US needs close contact with China is the only logical policy hence not making any reckless statements on SCS or even Taiwan goes without saying. Our predictions all came out. The whole US mastermind of containing China literally sank and Vietnam became the lonely opponent with nothing to gain, a total loser in the end. Now VN wants to repair some damage, but you know a loser will remain a loser. With our rapid buildup nobody is a match for that, not surprising analysts are already predicting within 10-15 years PLAN would rule SCS. The sticks are getting bigger day by day.

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> I give you a friendly proposal that will serve both sides Vietnam and China interests, as well as easing the concern of international community you can blackmail all, once you take over the waterway: we share the control. You Northern half we Southern half of The SC Sea. Everyone will be happy.


Thanks to your proposal. But I personally don't like it. And I also believe most of the Chinese PDFers here won't like it. 

Let time to judge who will be the owner of South China Sea and the SCS islands. I believe we are all young enough to see that day to come.

A birdview of China's JNCX shpyard, in Dec. 2016










The latest picture of DL shipyard. DL is not just about building aircraft carrier. How many type 052D destroyers and type 055 destroyers you could count from this picture?

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Brainsucker

Viet said:


> Vietnam's President Tran Dai Quang (R) and China's President Xi Jinping inspect honour guards during a welcoming ceremony outside the Great Hall of the People, in Beijing, China May 11, 2017. REUTERS/Jason Lee REUTERS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BEIJING (Reuters) - The leaders of China and Vietnam had "positive" talks about the disputed South China Sea on Thursday with neither side criticizing the other, a senior Chinese diplomat said.
> 
> Vietnam is the country most openly at odds with China over the waterway since the Philippines pulled back from confrontation under President Rodrigo Duterte.
> 
> Speaking after Chinese President Xi Jinping met Vietnamese President Tran Dai Quang in Beijing's Great Hall of the People, Chinese Vice Foreign Minister Liu Zhenmin said the South China Sea had been brought up in their talks.
> 
> "It was discussed but the main tone was very positive," Liu told reporters.
> 
> Both agreed to follow their consensus to continue stabilizing the situation and to keep pushing talks, as well as continue joint resource exploration in less sensitive areas, like the Gulf of Tonkin, he added.
> 
> "I think that talking about the South China Sea this time is really a positive piece of news. Neither side raised any criticisms of each other. There were no voices of that were out of step," Liu said.
> 
> China claims 90 percent of the potentially energy-rich South China Sea. Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines, Vietnam and Taiwan lay claim to parts of the route, through which about $5 trillion of trade passes each year.
> 
> Last year, tensions heightened between Beijing and Hanoi after Taiwan and U.S. officials said Beijing had placed surface-to-air missiles on Woody Island, part of the Paracel archipelago which China controls.
> 
> Vietnam called China's actions a serious infringement of its sovereignty over the Paracels.
> 
> In 2014, tensions between the two communist countries peaked more dramatically when China moved an oil rig into disputed waters and protests broke out across Vietnam.
> 
> Relations have since gradually improved with a series of high level visits between the two, though the military buildup continues in the region, including China's building of airstrips on man-made islands in the South China Sea.
> 
> In comments in front of reporters, Xi told Quang he hoped to take relations to a new stage to better benefit both peoples.
> 
> Xi also praised the leadership of Vietnam for its economic reforms.
> 
> "As a comrade and neighbor, we are happy to see this," Xi said.
> 
> Quang is in Beijing to attend a weekend conference on an ambitious scheme proposed by Xi to build a new Silk Road connecting China to Asia, Europe and beyond through massive infrastructure investment.
> 
> (Reporting by Ben Blanchard; Editing by Nick Macfie)
> 
> https://www.usnews.com/news/world/a...ositive-talks-with-vietnam-on-south-china-sea



Isn't this good?


----------



## Viet

iajj said:


> first, the talk of halves gives the delusion of equality, which has no root in political reality.
> 
> second, the talk of halves also excludes considerations for other countries - not that they deserve any consideration in china's sovereign waters, but the "talk" of halves that excludes them also gives the viets the sense of superiority over other southeast Asians. historically the lowly viets appropriated Chinese political philosophy and bureaucracy and used the latter to subjugate its still more southern neighbors morally and militarily. and historically the central empire had every interest in disabusing the lowly viets of that sense of moral and cultural superiority over khmers and laotians and malays. that interest is as valid and as salient as ever. any talk that gives appearance of superiority and precedence of viets' claim to those of the malays or finos must be spurned.
> 
> viets must take their place among all those marginal peoples. it is a place distinctively inferior to the central nation, and it is a place not at all distinct from those of other peripheral races. viets must be made to adhere to both points. if necessary, they must be made to relearn their rightful, lowly place through chinese military might, just as they have been ever since time immemorial.


you again with Middle Kingdom complex



Place Of Space said:


> No interests of your proposal. 9-dashes is very obvious.


You forget the gang on the other side of the street: the US/JP military alliance 

@Suika



GS Zhou said:


> Thanks to your proposal. But I personally don't like it. And I also believe most of the Chinese PDFers here won't like it.
> 
> Let time to judge who will be the owner of South China Sea and the SCS islands. I believe we are all young enough to see that day to come.
> 
> A birdview of China's JNCX shpyard, in Dec. 2016
> View attachment 396302
> 
> 
> View attachment 396303
> 
> 
> The latest picture of DL shipyard. DL is not just about building aircraft carrier. How many type 052D destroyers and type 055 destroyers you could count from this picture?
> View attachment 396308


My proposal serves very well China interests, not the number of your warships. Remember, in the old days during the military clash with the Ming navy, we fielded 1,000 warships onto the water. Ok I admit those ships were of course smaller and weaker than your present day frigate and destroyer. Anyway we have less warships but possess land based antiship missiles that pose a serious threat to any Navy operating in the SC sea.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Place Of Space

Viet said:


> you again with Middle Kingdom complex
> 
> 
> You forget the gang on the other side of the street: the US/JP military alliance
> 
> @Suika
> 
> 
> My proposal serves very well China interests, not the number of your warships. Remember, in the old days during the military clash with the Ming navy, we fielded 1,000 warships onto the water. Ok I admit those ships were of course smaller and weaker than your present day frigate and destroyer. Anyway we have less warships but possess land based antiship missiles that pose a serious threat to any Navy operating in the SC sea.



That's gang is not a problem. We can use every chance to negociate peace and cooperation with US. But you give me a reason, why I need to negociate with Vietnam?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> My proposal serves very well China interests, not the number of your warships. Remember, in the old days during the military clash with the Ming navy, we fielded 1,000 warships onto the water. Ok I admit those ships were of course smaller and weaker than your present day frigate and destroyer. Anyway we have less warships but possess land based antiship missiles that pose a serious threat to any Navy operating in the SC sea.


thanks to your consideration on "China's interests", altough I don't think it really serves China's interests as you claim. Anyway, you at least display a "softer" attitude than VCP, which is a very nice start. I like it. 

I don't want to waste time to discuss the wargame like Bastion-P vs. 052C/D. Believe me, 052C/D, incl. the radars, missiles and CIWS, they have passed faaaaaaaaar more difficult tests, before the mass production. 

BTW, to be honest, the scenario that you imagined, a fair game land-based ASM vs. 052C/D, actually won't happen in reality. The war in tomorrow is a war of "system vs. system". Instead of bragging the might of your land-based ASM, you'd better ask yourself, if its launch site, the detection radars, communication lines, could function smoothly in wartime like in peaceful time.



Viet said:


> You forget the gang on the other side of the street: the US/JP military alliance


Yeah, US is always a reliable partner to Vietnam!

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Viet

Place Of Space said:


> That's gang is not a problem. We can use every chance to negociate peace and cooperation with US. But you give me a reason, why I need to negociate with Vietnam?


Have you ever bought a house? I do several times. Location is everything. Vietnam is next to the sea lanes, we know the name of every single fish, we control more islands and reefs than any other. Our military might is feared by our neighbors. Reasons enough?


----------



## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> we control more islands and reefs than any other.


That's very true at the current moment, I fully agree with you. But this is also what we want to change. As I said in my previous post, you and I are both young enough to see that day to come.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Place Of Space

Viet said:


> Have you ever bought a house? I do several times. Location is everything. Vietnam is next to the sea lanes, we know the name of every single fish, we control more islands and reefs than any other. Our military might is feared by our neighbors. Reasons enough?



China is on the sea lanes. Your military might don't chanllenge others, you won't fear anything, however, Be feared is better than be destoryed.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> No more China peaceful rise?


To get back our waters, islands and reefs that stolen by other countries is part of the scope of "rise". I hope we can realize this mission by diplomatic negotiation. But of course, peace or war, this is not decided by China alone. Hope SCS area could always maintain peace and prosperous.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## samsara

*The Ganquan Island 甘泉岛* of Xisha Yongle Islands 西沙朱棣岛 is seen in south China's Hainan Province, April 23, 2017. Sansha City, on Yongxing 永兴岛, one of the Xisha Islands, was founded in July 2012. The city sees tourism as its main economic engine and administers three island groups -- the Xisha 西沙群岛, Zhongsha 中沙群岛 and Nansha 南沙群岛 -- along with surrounding waters. (Xinhua/Guo Cheng)

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## UMNOPutra

Now .. we know who are the winner and lossers ...
-------
*'Game over' for PHL if China finishes building in Scarborough –Justice Carpio *
*Published *May 16, 2017 7:02pm
* Updated * May 16, 2017 10:30pm
By JOSEPH TRISTAN ROXAS, GMA News
It will be "game over" for the Philippines if China will be allowed to continue building military facilities in Scarborough Shoal unrestricted, Supreme Court Senior Associate Justice Antonio Carpio said Tuesday.

"The flashpoint really is Scarborough Shoal and to me that’s the biggest worry because once China completes its air and naval bases in Scarborough Shoal, it would be game over for many of us because China will have control of the South China," Carpio said.

He also told in the defense symposium that not only the Scarborough Shoal is the "next flashpoint" of the territorial row between the Philippines and China, it is also the "missing piece" in China's full control of South China Sea.

"We are nearing a point where China is about to take full control of South China Sea," Carpio said. "Scarborough Shoal is the missing piece."

Scarborough Shoal, or Panatag Shoal, is inside the Philippines' exclusive economic zone, but China claims it is covered by its "nine-dash line" — a claim invalidated last year by a United Nations (UN) Arbitral Tribunal.

Despite the ruling of the Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Netherlands, Beijing continued its development of artificial islands in the disputed territory.

Carpio, who was one of the country’s legal team that argued the Philippine case at the PCA, said Scarborough Shoal is the last piece for China to declare the South China Sea as within its territorial boundaries after it completes building military facilities in its artificial islands.

"Military facilities of China will be beneficial in making nine-dash line claim as their territorial boundaries," he said.

*Vietnam*

The Supreme Court magistrate had long called on the administration of President Rodrigo Duterte, which has been seeking warmer ties with China to firmly engage with Beijing regarding the territorial dispute.

Carpio said the country can follow how Vietnam engages with China, saying the Vietnamese know how to fight for its territory with the Chinese in the Paracel Islands despite the warm economic ties between the two countries.

"I always look at Vietnam. Vietnam has strong relations with China but Vietnam is strong in defending its maritime zones," he said.

"Every time China does something Vietnam protests officially and they remain friends with China in terms of business relations," Carpio added.

He also noted that Vietnam is always "on guard" against China, and urged the Duterte administration to do the same.

*Test US commitment on MDT*

Carpio said the Philippines could test the commitment of the United States in the Mutual Defense Treaty (MDT) if the country sends one of its naval ships in Scarborough Shoal.

“We can send our Navy ship there and wait for it to be attacked because any attack on that armed vessel of the Philippines can trigger the operation of the MDT,” Carpio said.

“If it’s attacked, then the US will have to decide if it will honor the treaty or not," he added.

The Philippines signed the MDT with the US in 1951 for defense and develop assistance. The Visiting Forces Agreement is also under the MDT.

Carpio, however, said that the Americans sending their troops in Scarborough Shoal would be for naught if the Philippines itself would not defend it.

“If we ourselves are not going to defend Scarborough Shoal, why would the Americans send their soldiers to die there on the rocks?” Carpio said.* —KBK/NB, GMA News*

- See more at: http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/news...gh-justice-carpio/story/#sthash.H9mwISSZ.dpuf


----------



## BHarwana

*China has reportedly further militarized a disputed reef in the South China Sea, just days after agreeing to minimize tensions with Vietnam.*
China’s increasing military capabilities are proudly on display: according to Chinese state-run newspaper the Defense Times, Norinco CS-AR-1 55mm rocket launchers have been installed on the Fiery Cross Reef in the Spratly Islands. The defense systems are able to detect and engage enemy combat divers.

Frogmen are mainly used by Special Forces divisions since underwater divers and small-scale vehicles are notoriously difficult for to target. They have been used by Vietnam since 2014 to install particular fishing nets throughout the South China Sea.

In 2014, Vietnamese frogmen were reported to have been involved in placing obstacles around a Chinese oil rig to interfere with drilling. “40 percent of losses in naval warfare history took place at the anchor site because warships or other facilities are too large to evade enemy fire,” People’s Liberation Army Navy commander Zhang Lisong told the Global Times.

An expert on Chinese navy threats told the Global Times at the time that Vietnamese frogmen would constitute China’s toughest enemy in the future.

The reef where the cannons were mounted is claimed by the Philippines, Taiwan and Vietnam but controlled by China.

On Tuesday, a joint statement from China and Vietnam stated Beijing would "not take any actions to complicate the situation," Sputnik reported, which is important for the safe passage of $5 trillion worth of trade transiting the South China Sea annually. 

https://sputniknews.com/asia/201705171053714090-military-china-installs-guns-scs/


----------



## Place Of Space

Vietnamese frogman is famous, they once and only the one who sunk American aircrafts carrier.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## tada

Place Of Space said:


> Vietnamese frogman is famous, they once and only the one who sunk American aircrafts carrier.


as I know there is not suck thing vietnamese frog men sunk American aircraft carries. all the story in guf of tokin vietnamese sunking american carries . because all this this is make up buy american


----------



## samsara

UMNOPutra said:


> Now .. we know who are the winner and lossers ...
> -------
> *'Game over' for PHL if China finishes building in Scarborough –Justice Carpio *
> *Published *May 16, 2017 7:02pm
> * Updated * May 16, 2017 10:30pm
> By JOSEPH TRISTAN ROXAS, GMA News
> It will be "game over" for the Philippines if China will be allowed to continue building military facilities in Scarborough Shoal unrestricted, Supreme Court Senior Associate Justice Antonio Carpio said Tuesday.
> 
> "The flashpoint really is Scarborough Shoal and to me that’s the biggest worry because once China completes its air and naval bases in Scarborough Shoal, it would be game over for many of us because China will have control of the South China," Carpio said.
> 
> He also told in the defense symposium that not only the Scarborough Shoal is the "next flashpoint" of the territorial row between the Philippines and China, it is also the "missing piece" in China's full control of South China Sea.
> 
> "We are nearing a point where China is about to take full control of South China Sea," Carpio said. "Scarborough Shoal is the missing piece."
> 
> Scarborough Shoal, or Panatag Shoal, is inside the Philippines' exclusive economic zone, but China claims it is covered by its "nine-dash line" — a claim invalidated last year by a United Nations (UN) Arbitral Tribunal.
> 
> Despite the ruling of the Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Netherlands, Beijing continued its development of artificial islands in the disputed territory.
> 
> Carpio, who was one of the country’s legal team that argued the Philippine case at the PCA, said Scarborough Shoal is the last piece for China to declare the South China Sea as within its territorial boundaries after it completes building military facilities in its artificial islands.
> 
> "Military facilities of China will be beneficial in making nine-dash line claim as their territorial boundaries," he said.
> 
> *Vietnam*
> 
> The Supreme Court magistrate had long called on the administration of President Rodrigo Duterte, which has been seeking warmer ties with China to firmly engage with Beijing regarding the territorial dispute.
> 
> Carpio said the country can follow how Vietnam engages with China, saying the Vietnamese know how to fight for its territory with the Chinese in the Paracel Islands despite the warm economic ties between the two countries.
> 
> "I always look at Vietnam. Vietnam has strong relations with China but Vietnam is strong in defending its maritime zones," he said.
> 
> "Every time China does something Vietnam protests officially and they remain friends with China in terms of business relations," Carpio added.
> 
> He also noted that Vietnam is always "on guard" against China, and urged the Duterte administration to do the same.
> 
> *Test US commitment on MDT*
> 
> Carpio said the Philippines could test the commitment of the United States in the Mutual Defense Treaty (MDT) if the country sends one of its naval ships in Scarborough Shoal.
> 
> “We can send our Navy ship there and wait for it to be attacked because any attack on that armed vessel of the Philippines can trigger the operation of the MDT,” Carpio said.
> 
> “If it’s attacked, then the US will have to decide if it will honor the treaty or not," he added.
> 
> The Philippines signed the MDT with the US in 1951 for defense and develop assistance. The Visiting Forces Agreement is also under the MDT.
> 
> Carpio, however, said that the Americans sending their troops in Scarborough Shoal would be for naught if the Philippines itself would not defend it.
> 
> “If we ourselves are not going to defend Scarborough Shoal, why would the Americans send their soldiers to die there on the rocks?” Carpio said.* —KBK/NB, GMA News*
> 
> - See more at: http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/news...gh-justice-carpio/story/#sthash.H9mwISSZ.dpuf




*The PHI Supreme Court Senior Associate Justice Antonio Carpio just sounded what also represents the utmost interests of the USA think tank and military interests to maintain the encirclement of China within The First Island Chain! Wonder if he's one of their men in Manila.*

Read on below excerpt from an *article* articulating the opinion of an expert at the U.S. Naval War College (NWC) before a Congress panel in February, 2017:

*The panel was titled* “_*China’s Hypersonic and Maneuverable Re-Entry Vehicle Programs*_” and also included *James Acton*, co-director of Nuclear Policy Program and senior fellow, Carnegie Endowment for International Peace; and *Mark Stokes*, executive director, Project 2049 Institute.

In closing, Andrew S. Erickson gave USCC some direction on where U.S. policy might go next.

*“*_*U.S. policymakers should enhance efforts at developing tailored countermeasures, particularly concerning electronic warfare,” Erickson said. “(U.S. should also) attempt to **ensure that China doesn’t develop Scarborough Shoal into a key targeting node in the South China Sea**, and increase U.S. Navy ship numbers to avoid presenting China with an over-concentrated target set.*_*”*​
The USCC was created by the United States Congress in *October 2000* with the legislative mandate to monitor, investigate, and submit to Congress an annual report on the national security implications of the bilateral trade and economic relationship between the United States and the People’s Republic of China, and to provide recommendations, where appropriate, to Congress for legislative and administrative action.

----------------

*Due to the very strategic position of Huangyan Dao 黄岩岛 ("Scarborough Shoal") as explicitly articulated by the U.S. Naval War College's expert, Andrew S. Erickson, in relation to USA's encirclement strategy to limit China's naval force free movement within The First Chain Island only, then China has no choice but to act firmly to secure that strategic position to free itself from the Pentagon's entanglement! For this fundamental reason, in no way China should entertain any attempt by some factions in PHI to block its full entrance there!*

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## TaiShang

UMNOPutra said:


> Scarborough Shoal, or Panatag Shoal, is inside the Philippines' exclusive economic zone, but China claims it is covered by its "nine-dash line" — a claim invalidated last year by a United Nations (UN) Arbitral Tribunal.



The paid Kangaroo Court (PCA) has nothing to do with the UN. It is not a UN institution. The Court just happen to rent a building owned by the UN. 

If I pay enough money, I can also buy a verdict on my behalf in the court. Many Australian and US 'experts' got rich on the back of the Philippines' hard earned tax money, which the US declined to pay off.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## xiao qi

*China installs Rocket Launchers to ward off Vietnamese Military Combat Divers






*

China has installed rocket launchers on a disputed reef in the South China Sea+ to ward off Vietnamese military combat divers, according to a state-run newspaper, offering new details on China's ongoing military build-up.

China has said military construction on the islands it controls in the South China Sea will be limited to necessary defensive requirements, and that it can do what it likes on its own territory.

The United States has criticized what it has called China's militarization of its maritime outposts and stressed the need for freedom of navigation by conducting periodic air and naval patrols near them that have angered Beijing.

The state-run Defense Times newspaper, in a Tuesday report on its WeChat account, said Norinco CS/AR-1 55mm anti-frogman rocket launcher defense systems with the capability to discover, identify and attack enemy combat divers had been installed on Fiery Cross Reef in the Spratly Islands.

Fiery Cross Reef is administered by China but also claimed by the Philippines, Vietnam and Taiwan.

The report did not say when the defense system was installed, but said it was part of a response that began in May 2014, when Vietnamese divers installed large numbers of fishing nets in the Paracel Islands.

China has conducted extensive land reclamation work at Fiery Cross Reef, including building an airport, one of several Chinese-controlled features in the South China Sea where China has carried out such work.

More than $5 trillion of world trade is shipped through the South China Sea every year. Besides China's territorial claims in the area, Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei, the Philippines and Taiwan have rival claims.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-southchinasea-china-idUSKCN18D0ER


----------



## Viet

TaiShang said:


> The paid Kangaroo Court (PCA) has nothing to do with the UN. It is not a UN institution. The Court just happen to rent a building owned by the UN.
> 
> If I pay enough money, I can also buy a verdict on my behalf in the court. Many Australian and US 'experts' got rich on the back of the Philippines' hard earned tax money, which the US declined to pay off.


it is not as easy as you thought.

Look: PCA is older than UN, established on Haugue Convention of 1899, signed by 121 nations including China. yes, China is a member of the Haugue Convention, hence committed to PCA. the ruling of PCA is accepted by G7, the most powerful club on the planet. that matters. UN or not does not matter. so either you quit the convention, including UNCLOS, or you are free to found your own convention, your own court, your own money, but the problem is your ruling will be only accepted by China politbuero. nobody else.

in short, China 9-dash claim is worthless and dumped. questions?


----------



## GS Zhou

China and Cambodia agrees to enhance the cooperation on sea technology. According to a newly-signed agreement between two sides, *China will build ocean observation station in Cambodia*. The new facility built in Cambodia will help both sides to strengthen the capabilities of wave and weather forecasts in the region. 

中柬海洋合作为两国关系发展增添新成果

来源：国家海洋局 发布时间：2017-05-16 [打印本页] [关闭窗口]
5月16日，在国务院总理李克强与柬埔寨首相洪森见证下，国家海洋局局长王宏与柬埔寨外交与国际合作部部长布拉索昆共同签署了《中国国家海洋局与柬埔寨王国环境部关于建立中柬联合海洋观测站的议定书》（简称《议定书》），并纳入《“一带一路”国际合作高峰论坛成果清单》。

* 根据《议定书》，双方将在柬埔寨共建联合海洋观测站，进行海洋观测、监测和预报，推进海洋在气候变化及其适应中的作用等研究活动，开展海岸带与海洋综合管理、海洋环境、海洋生态系统保护等相关工作，进一步加强两国在海洋观测领域的合作，提升海岸带与海洋综合管理能力，推进海岸带与海洋环境和生态系统保护，促进海岸带与海洋资源的可持续利用领域的相互学习和借鉴。*

2012年，国家海洋局局领导首次率团访问柬埔寨环境部，此后双方在海洋领域人才培养及能力建设等方面开展了交流与合作。2016年10月，双方签署了《中国国家海洋局与柬埔寨王国环境部关于海洋领域合作的谅解备忘录》，并于当年，11月3日在厦门召开了中柬海洋领域合作联委会第一次会议，就多项具体合作事项达成共识。2016年12月，“向阳红01号”科考船实施了首次中柬联合科考调查，开展了物理海洋与气象、海洋生物等学科的多要素观测，为柬埔寨科学家进行了海水样品采集、样品现场分析及处理等培训工作。此外，双方还在金边联合举办了第四届中国-东南亚国家海洋合作论坛,来自中国和东盟国家的海洋主管部门官员、海洋科学机构的专家、以及有关国际和地区组织的代表就海洋相关领域的合作进行了深入交流。

未来，双方将进一步深化海洋领域务实合作，携手制定和实施包括联合海洋观测站在内的能力建设项目，共同提高海洋管理、资源开发和科学研究的水平，升级基础设施，使海洋合作成为推动中柬双边关系发展的新动力。

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## sinait

Viet said:


> it is not as easy as you thought.
> Look: PCA is older than UN, established on Haugue Convention of 1899, signed by 121 nations including China. yes, China is a member of the Haugue Convention, hence committed to PCA. the ruling of PCA is accepted by G7, the most powerful club on the planet. that matters. UN or not does not matter. so either you quit the convention, including UNCLOS, or you are free to found your own convention, your own court, your own money, but the problem is your ruling will be only accepted by China politbuero. nobody else.
> in short, China 9-dash claim is worthless and dumped. questions?


Very despicable of GMA News to keep on repeating lies when the UN had clearly clarified 10
mths ago that it has nothing to do with the PCA and that Kangaroo Unilateral Arbitral
Tribunal constituted by a Nationalist Japanese judge.
There would be no issue if it is simply reported as a PCA *arranged* Unilateral Arbitral Tribunal.

http://globalnation.inquirer.net/141125/arbitral-court-not-a-un-agency
http://www.scmp.com/news/china/dipl...ed-nations-stresses-separation-hague-tribunal
http://www.icj-cij.org/homepage/

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## terranMarine

More progress, good. Add more military assets there and keep on building.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## TaiShang

Viet said:


> it is not as easy as you thought.
> 
> Look: PCA is older than UN, established on Haugue Convention of 1899, signed by 121 nations including China. yes, China is a member of the Haugue Convention, hence committed to PCA. the ruling of PCA is accepted by G7, the most powerful club on the planet. that matters. UN or not does not matter. so either you quit the convention, including UNCLOS, or you are free to found your own convention, your own court, your own money, but the problem is your ruling will be only accepted by China politbuero. nobody else.
> 
> in short, China 9-dash claim is worthless and dumped. questions?



You have copied and pasted PCA website. But this does not change the fact that it is not even a court, but a dispute resolution mechanism with no sanctioning powers.

Quit or not does not matter. G7, or G77 does not matter, as well.

The job of the PCA is to arbitrate between at least "two" parties agreeing to seek dispute resolution. It is a company. 

***



xiao qi said:


> China has installed rocket launchers on a disputed reef in the South China Sea



Problem is, the area is not disputed. It is owned.

***

*China, ASEAN countries agree on COC framework*
Xinhua, May 19, 2017



Senior officials from China and ASEAN countries attend the 14th senior officials' meeting on the implementation of the Declaration on the Conduct of the Parties in the South China Sea (DOC) in Guiyang, southwest China's Guizhou Province, May 18, 2017. (Xinhua/Liu Xu)


Senior officials from China and ASEAN countries Thursday agreed on a framework for the Code of Conduct (COC) in the South China Sea.

The consensus came during the 14th senior officials' meeting on the implementation of the Declaration on the Conduct of the Parties in the South China Sea (DOC).

*The meeting, co-chaired by Chinese Vice Foreign Minister Liu Zhenmin and Singapore's Permanent Secretary for Foreign Affairs Chee Wee Kiong, was held ahead of the upcoming China-ASEAN foreign ministers' meeting in July.*

The approval of the framework was reached earlier than scheduled, Liu told the press after the meeting, adding that according to the work plan, China and ASEAN countries were expected to finish consultation on the draft framework for the COC by the first half of this year.

The framework, which represents a crucial phased result in the entire COC negotiation process, has laid a solid foundation for further negotiations, Liu stressed.

Liu said all parties have vowed to continue to constructively advance the negotiations toward the early conclusion of the COC.

During the meeting, all parties also agreed to continue to implement the DOC and *reaffirmed plans to solve disputes via negotiation, manage differences with a regional framework of regulations, deepen maritime cooperation, and move forward COC negotiation to safeguard peace and stability of the region.*

The meeting approved a paper on the establishment of three technological committees, agreed on outcomes of the trial application of the China-ASEAN senior diplomats' hotline platform, and updated the 2016-2018 work plan.

This year marks the 15th anniversary of the signing of the DOC. All parties pledged to implement the DOC to build a South China Sea environment of peace, friendship and cooperation.

Prior to the meeting, the 21st Joint Working Group meeting on the Implementation of the DOC was held.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Viet

TaiShang said:


> You have copied and pasted PCA website. But this does not change the fact that it is not even a court, but a dispute resolution mechanism with no sanctioning powers.
> 
> Quit or not does not matter. G7, or G77 does not matter, as well.
> 
> The job of the PCA is to arbitrate between at least "two" parties agreeing to seek dispute resolution. It is a company.
> 
> ***
> .


proof I copied and pasted PCA website!

China signs the Haugue convention, but does not respect it. China signs UNCLOS, but does not respect it, either. the people outside China laugh at your logic, signing to international treaties but rejecting to follow the rules, citing ancient texts and hear-saying dating back thousand years ago nobody can check.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TaiShang

Viet said:


> proof I copied and pasted PCA website!
> 
> China signs the Haugue convention, but does not respect it. China signs UNCLOS, but does not respect it, either. the people outside China laugh at your logic, signing to international treaties but rejecting to follow the rules, citing ancient texts and hear-saying dating back thousand years ago nobody can check.



This is a long, exhausting debate which we have gone over numerous times. 

In any case, the Kangaroo Court is not really a court. So, the so-called judges/arbitrator are officially called 'members.' 

PCA is a private entity based on willing-buyer, willing-seller. It is not a court. It is what the two or more sides make it to be. 

In PH Case, China rendered it an expensive Kangaroo Court. That's all.

China does not have to join in all business transactions just because it does business with everybody.

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## terranMarine

Viet said:


> proof I copied and pasted PCA website!
> 
> China signs the Haugue convention, but does not respect it. China signs UNCLOS, but does not respect it, either. the people outside China laugh at your logic, signing to international treaties but rejecting to follow the rules, citing ancient texts and hear-saying dating back thousand years ago nobody can check.



You have also said the world stands with PH and VN. Well 70+ countries picked China's side and i have provided the list so again now you claim the world is laughing at China's logic you got proof? I know the world did laugh at America when Bush said US will invade the International Court in the Hague if a single US soldier would be prosecuted for war crimes in Iraq.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Viet

terranMarine said:


> You have also said the world stands with PH and VN. Well 70+ countries picked China's side and i have provided the list so again now you claim the world is laughing at China's logic you got proof? I know the world did laugh at America when Bush said US will invade the International Court in the Hague if a single US soldier would be prosecuted for war crimes in Iraq.


Of course the world stands with Vietnam and the other people nations who have a little brain. The 70+ countries say they support peaceful solution, don't back your claim "the sea is mine because my Han grand uncle was there".



TaiShang said:


> This is a long, exhausting debate which we have gone over numerous times.
> 
> In any case, the Kangaroo Court is not really a court. So, the so-called judges/arbitrator are officially called 'members.'
> 
> PCA is a private entity based on willing-buyer, willing-seller. It is not a court. It is what the two or more sides make it to be.
> 
> In PH Case, China rendered it an expensive Kangaroo Court. That's all.
> 
> China does not have to join in all business transactions just because it does business with everybody.


What the government of China says is irrelevant. PCA issues a statement saying your 9-dash line is worthless. It is as rediculous as if Italy claims large part of Germany because ancient italian merchants were here.

The people will begin to ask your mental condition.


----------



## Suika

terranMarine said:


> You have also said the world stands with PH and VN. Well 70+ countries picked China's side and i have provided the list so again now you claim the world is laughing at China's logic you got proof? I know the world did laugh at America when Bush said US will invade the International Court in the Hague if a single US soldier would be prosecuted for war crimes in Iraq.



This picture yeah 





Out of the countries colored in red, which ones can militarily support China in the SCS? Interesting to see India as red too. But obviously, given the way many Chinese posters here bash the Indian posters, its a safe bet that India in red on the map means nothing. And India's defense relations with Vietnam have reached very high strategic levels. All those African and Middle East countries just want Chinese money, as do a number of other countries throughout. So after crossing off from the list, the countries that only did lip service for other reasons and don't meaningfully support, the list becomes much shorter. No economically powerful country supported China, no one from the G7. Consider the kangaroo court case as an early warning to the geopolitical confrontation that lays ahead by continuing this path, not an invitation to keep pressing.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Banglar Bir

*While the U.S. Is Distracted, Beijing Is Winning the Battle to Control the South China Sea*
Charlie Campbell / Beijing
May 19, 2017
South China Sea? The Chinese do. Americans seem preoccupied, though, with Russia's social media war on the U.S., and North Korea’s nuclear program. These, combined with huge gaps in the Trump administration’s foreign policy team, may be handing Beijing almost complete control of the South China Sea. So have deft Chinese diplomacy and a pro-Beijing change of guard in former bitter rival, the Philippines.

On Thursday, China and the 10-member Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) agreed a framework for a code of conduct that will apply to the disputed waterway in the latest sign of waning U.S. influence. Almost a third of the world’s trade, worth $5 trillion annually, passes through the South China Sea, which Beijing claims in its entirety and the Philippines, Malaysia, Brunei, Vietnam and Taiwan do in part.
Having stalled on code of conduct for over a decade, China, perhaps seeing a decisive tip in its favor, is now pushing to see a draft by a provisional deadline of August. Chinese Vice Foreign Minister Liu Zhenmin even gave a not-so-subtle message for the U.S. to stay out of it: "We hope that our consultations on the code are not subject to any outside interference,” he said on Thursday.

“The leadership in Beijing must think that its won the lottery,” says Professor Nick Bisley, an Asia specialist at Australia’s La Trobe University. “It signals that ASEAN is prepared to bend on certain issues, which must be favorable to Beijing."

A code of conduct was first proposed in 2000. In the interim, China has angered rival claimants by seizing, expanding and militarizing islets and reefs in the South China Sea — transforming low-tide outcroppings into what have been dubbed “unsinkable aircraft carriers,” all in apparent violation of the U.N. Convention on the Law of the Sea.

In response, the Obama Administration ramped up naval Freedom of Navigation Operations through the area. However, despite U.S. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson telling his confirmation hearings that the patrols should be maintained, and China would “not be allowed” to visit those islands it had already built, not one such patrol has taken place under President Donald Trump. (According to the New York _Times_, three requested operations did not receive approval.)

The speculation is that either Trump has taken his eye off the ball, or is deliberating not pursuing the South China Sea in exchange for China's cooperation on other issues — most likely trade and pressuring North Korean Supreme Leader Kim Jong Un over his nuclear weapons program.

“President Trump’s reluctance to confront China over the South China Sea is, in part, a product of his failure to appoint senior officials to the State and Defense Departments, writes Carlyle Thayer, emeritus professor at the Australian Defence Force Academy, in a briefing paper. “As a result, the Trump Administration has a myopic strategic view rather than a comprehensive strategic view.”

The election of President Rodrigo Duterte in the Philippines has meanwhile been a great boon to China’s claims. The former president, Benigno Aquino took Beijing to the Permanent Court of Arbitration in the Hague over China's 2012 occupation of the disputed Scarborough Shoal, which lies less than 200 nautical miles from Manila. He obtained a favorable ruling on behalf of the Philippines, which Duterte has astonishingly set aside, instead offering to solve the issue bilaterally.

On Friday, Manila and Beijing held direct talks on the South China Sea issue for the first time. Duterte has shamelessly tried to cadge financial assistance from China with the hope of building a railway across the archipelago nation’s main islands of Luzon and Mindanao.

"If the Philippines cuts a deal, especially with a White House that looks like it doesn’t care about this issue, then the other claimants’ incentive structure changes," adds Bisley. "We may well see a scaling back of ambition and they might start saying, ‘what can we get now?’ Because the longer this goes on the worse this is going to be.”

It’s likely that a bilateral agreement will be reached in exchange for Chinese financial assistance and a guarantee not to militarize the Scarborough Shoal. But any deal undercuts the efforts of other claimants to internationalize the dispute and force through a stricter code of conduct. Compounding issues, the Philippines, under Duterte, is currently ASEAN chair.

That has already paid China dividends. On April 30, a statement at the conclusion of the 30th ASEAN Summit in Manila pointedly dropped references to "land reclamation and militarization" in the South China Sea that had previously been included. A watered down code of conduct that effectively hands Beijing dominion over the South China Sea may be the next step.

Adds Thayer: “The reality is that ASEAN is gradually accepting that the South China Sea has become China’s lake.”

http://time.com/4785577/south-china-sea-us-china-control/


----------



## Satria Manggala

*Duterte says China's Xi threatened war if Philippines drills for oil*





Chinese President Xi Jinping shakes hands with Philippines President Rodrigo Duterte in Beijing. 


> REUTERS/Etienne Oliveau/Pool
> By Manuel Mogato | MANILA
> Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte said on Friday Chinese counterpart China Xi Jinping had warned him there would be war if Manila tried to enforce an arbitration ruling and drill for oil in a disputed part of the South China Sea.
> 
> In remarks that could infuriate China, Duterte hit back at domestic critics who said he has gone soft on Beijing by refusing to push it to comply with an award last year by the Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague, which ruled largely in favor of the Philippines.
> 
> Duterte said he discussed it with Xi when the two met in Beijing on Monday, and got a firm, but friendly warning.
> 
> "We intend to drill oil there, if it's yours, well, that's your view, but my view is, I can drill the oil, if there is some inside the bowels of the earth because it is ours," Duterte said in a speech, recalling his conversation with Xi.
> 
> "His response to me, 'we're friends, we don't want to quarrel with you, we want to maintain the presence of warm relationship, but if you force the issue, we'll go to war."
> 
> Duterte has long expressed his admiration for Xi and said he would raise the arbitration ruling with him eventually, but needed first to strengthen relations between the two countries, which the Philippines is hoping will yield billions of dollars in Chinese loans and infrastructure investments.
> 
> The Hague award clarifies Philippine sovereign rights in its 200-mile Exclusive Economic Zone to access offshore oil and gas fields, including the Reed Bank, 85 nautical miles off its coast.
> 
> It also invalidated China's nine-dash line claim on its maps denoting sovereignty over most of the South China Sea.
> 
> Duterte has a reputation for his candid, at times incendiary, remarks and his office typically backpeddles on his behalf and blames the media for distorting his most controversial comments.
> 
> Duterte recalled the same story about his discussion with Xi on oil exploration in a recorded television show aired moments after the speech.
> 
> He said Xi told him "do not touch it".
> 
> He said Xi had promised that the arbitration ruling would be discussed in future, but not now.
> 
> 
> Duterte said China did not want to bring up the arbitral ruling at a time when other claimant countries, like Vietnam, might also decide to file cases against it at the arbitration tribunal.
> 
> It was not the first time the firebrand leader has publicly discussed the content of private meetings with other world leaders.
> 
> His remarks came the same day that China and the Philippines held their first session in a two-way consultation process on the South China Sea.
> 
> They exchanged views on "the importance of appropriately handling concerns, incidents and disputes involving the South China Sea", the Chinese Foreign Ministry said in a statement that gave few details.
> 
> (Additional reporting by Ben Blanchard in Beijing; Editing by Martin Petty)



http://www.reuters.com/article/us-southchinasea-philippines-china-idUSKCN18F1DJ


----------



## Jammer

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=768540143344344


----------



## TaiShang

Viet said:


> Of course the world stands with Vietnam and the other people nations who have a little brain. The 70+ countries say they support peaceful solution, don't back your claim "the sea is mine because my Han grand uncle was there".
> 
> 
> What the government of China says is irrelevant. PCA issues a statement saying your 9-dash line is worthless. It is as rediculous as if Italy claims large part of Germany because ancient italian merchants were here.
> 
> The people will begin to ask your mental condition.



In fact, what the private arbitrators, or members, say is irrelevant. The irrelevancy has been proven tens of times. China did not pay them, hence, the private court spoke the where their mouth was.

China does not feed all mouths. Only those that matter.

Who was going to stop China's island Genesis programs? Martians?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## UMNOPutra

Woow ....What will happen with PRC if PH win the war ....
-----
*Duterte says China's Xi threatened war if Philippines drills for oil*





MANILA: Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte said on Friday (May 19) Chinese counterpart Xi Jinping had warned him there would be war if Manila tried to enforce an arbitration ruling and drill for oil in a disputed part of the South China Sea.

In remarks that could infuriate China, Duterte hit back at domestic critics who said he has gone soft on Beijing by refusing to push it to comply with an award last year by the Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague, which ruled largely in favor of the Philippines.

Duterte said he discussed it with Xi when the two met in Beijing on Monday, and got a firm, but friendly warning.
"We intend to drill oil there, if it's yours, well, that's your view, but my view is, I can drill the oil, if there is some inside the bowels of the earth because it is ours," Duterte said in a speech, recalling his conversation with Xi.





"His response to me, 'we're friends, we don't want to quarrel with you, we want to maintain the presence of warm relationship, but if you force the issue, we'll go to war."

Duterte has long expressed his admiration for Xi and said he would raise the arbitration ruling with him eventually, but needed first to strengthen relations between the two countries, which the Philippines is hoping will yield billions of dollars in Chinese loans and infrastructure investments.

The Hague award clarifies Philippine sovereign rights in its 200-mile Exclusive Economic Zone to access offshore oil and gas fields, including the Reed Bank, 85 nautical miles off its coast.

It also invalidated China's nine-dash line claim on its maps denoting sovereignty over most of the South China Sea.

Duterte has a reputation for his candid, at times incendiary, remarks and his office typically backpeddles on his behalf and blames the media for distorting his most controversial comments.






Duterte recalled the same story about his discussion with Xi on oil exploration in a recorded television show aired moments after the speech.

He said Xi told him "do not touch it".

He said Xi had promised that the arbitration ruling would be discussed in future, but not now.

Duterte said China did not want to bring up the arbitral ruling at a time when other claimant countries, like Vietnam, might also decide to file cases against it at the arbitration tribunal.

It was not the first time the firebrand leader has publicly discussed the content of private meetings with other world leaders.

His remarks came the same day that China and the Philippines held their first session in a two-way consultation process on the South China Sea.

They exchanged views on "the importance of appropriately handling concerns, incidents and disputes involving the South China Sea", the Chinese Foreign Ministry said in a statement that gave few details.

Source: Reuters/mn
Read more at http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asiapa...lls-for-8865896


----------



## TaiShang

*Beijing, Manila start series of S. China Sea talks*
By LI XIAOKUN | China Daily | Updated: 2017-05-20

China and the Philippines on Friday vowed to seek ways acceptable to both sides to solve issues related to the South China Sea in their first direct meeting on the topic.

Vice-Foreign Minister Liu Zhenmin and Philippine Ambassador to China Jose Santiago Santa Romana led their delegations to the meeting of the China-Philippines Bilateral Consultation Mechanism on the South China Sea. The event was held in Guiyang, capital of Guizhou province.

A joint news release issued after the meeting said the mechanism should be "a platform for confidence-building measures and for promoting maritime cooperation and maritime security".

It will comprise officials from their foreign ministries and relevant maritime affairs agencies, and will meet alternately in China and the Philippines once every six months.

The meeting on Friday also discussed issues including promotion of next-step practical maritime cooperation and the possibility of setting up technical working groups.

Zhang Xuegang, a Southeast Asian studies expert at the China Institutes of Contemporary International Relations, said the consultation is crucial in ensuring proper handling of the South China Sea issue. It also "provides a model to neighbors with territorial disputes", Zhang said.

The meeting was four days after President Xi Jinping and Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte reaffirmed they would solve the South China Sea issue through dialogue and negotiations on Monday when Duterte attended the Belt and Road Forum for International Cooperation in Beijing.

Beijing's relations with Manila made a U-turn after Duterte assumed office in June 2016. He visited China in October, his first foreign visit beyond ASEAN. Both sides have agreed to separate the territorial dispute from talks on developing bilateral cooperation and to handle it on another track.

*Duterte indicated that under his China policy, contentious issues will be discussed one by one with the use of "quiet diplomacy".*

Liu said on Thursday that *Beijing speaks highly of Duterte's friendly stance, calling it "a beautiful turnaround" after five years of difficult relations.*

He made the remarks at a news conference after a meeting of senior officials from China and ASEAN member countries. The meeting approved a draft framework of the South China Sea Code of Conduct, marking a milestone in peacefully resolving the South China Sea issue.

Also on Friday, the 23rd China-ASEAN Senior Officials' Consultation was held at the same venue.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Suika

Such obvious arm twisting is being called "friendly".


----------



## Viet

TaiShang said:


> In fact, what the private arbitrators, or members, say is irrelevant. The irrelevancy has been proven tens of times. China did not pay them, hence, the private court spoke the where their mouth was.
> 
> China does not feed all mouths. Only those that matter.
> 
> Who was going to stop China's island Genesis programs? Martians?


Why did you fail to buy the PCA when you had the chance? Now it is too late. The verdict is out there. No matter how loud you are crying now.

We explore oil and gas, we expand and build up our islands too. Wait for 10 years from now, we will build second Vietnam in the SC sea. All within China 9-dash line. What can you do against our undertaking? Writing more China peaceful rise articles?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## terranMarine

Viet said:


> Why did you fail to buy the PCA when you had the chance? Now it is too late. The verdict is out there. No matter how loud you are crying now.
> 
> We explore oil and gas, we expand and build up our islands too. Wait for 10 years from now, we will build second Vietnam in the SC sea. All within China 9-dash line. What can you do against our undertaking? Writing more China peaceful rise articles?



It's a great suggestion, i hope VN takes your advice because that will give China the perfect excuse to open fire. Go ahead just do it.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Viet

terranMarine said:


> It's a great suggestion, i hope VN takes your advice because that will give China the perfect excuse to open fire. Go ahead just do it.


Bad news for you. In case you haven't noticed Vietnam always follows Chinese development path, be culture and custom, be political or economic, be island genesis program or military modernization. We are the second country after Ming China that produced and deployed fire arms. We are your twin brother. You don't want to open fire on someone that copies the greatness of China?

If I want to know what will happen in VN, I just read Chinese news.

Hope peace will forever prevail between our nations.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## TaiShang

Viet said:


> Why did you fail to buy the PCA when you had the chance? Now it is too late. The verdict is out there. No matter how loud you are crying now.



Because China is a big developing nation and it does not have an extra $30 million to feed members of the private PCA and private expert contractors.

Ignoring has been cheaper. Besides, the private court verdict by the paid members has been used by China in a strategic way. I, as an IR student, enjoy post-Arbitration SCS more than pre-Arbitration SCS.



Viet said:


> We explore oil and gas, we expand and build up our islands too. Wait for 10 years from now, we will build second Vietnam in the SC sea. All within China 9-dash line. What can you do against our undertaking? Writing more China peaceful rise articles?



Then you will continue to prove our point: That your country has never been sincere. In fact, it was Duterte that realized this first and he made a U-turn to China to outdone Vietnam. I do not think your complaints are being taken seriously in the ASEAN, anymore. 

You build, China builds. Outcome cannot be hidden, after all. The for-profit arbitration company's verdict has worked miraculously so far.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## samsara

EXCLUSIVE: Hunting ancient and modern treasures of South China Sea!
Xinhua's Wang Jingzhong tells his own story.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/866575687334805504


UMNOPutra said:


> Woow ....What will happen with PRC if PH win the war ....
> -----
> *Duterte says China's Xi threatened war if Philippines drills for oil*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MANILA: Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte said on Friday (May 19) Chinese counterpart Xi Jinping had warned him there would be war if Manila tried to enforce an arbitration ruling and drill for oil in a disputed part of the South China Sea.
> 
> In remarks that could infuriate China, Duterte hit back at domestic critics who said he has gone soft on Beijing by refusing to push it to comply with an award last year by the Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague, which ruled largely in favor of the Philippines.
> 
> Duterte said he discussed it with Xi when the two met in Beijing on Monday, and got a firm, but friendly warning.
> "We intend to drill oil there, if it's yours, well, that's your view, but my view is, I can drill the oil, if there is some inside the bowels of the earth because it is ours," Duterte said in a speech, recalling his conversation with Xi.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "His response to me, 'we're friends, we don't want to quarrel with you, we want to maintain the presence of warm relationship, but if you force the issue, we'll go to war."
> 
> Duterte has long expressed his admiration for Xi and said he would raise the arbitration ruling with him eventually, but needed first to strengthen relations between the two countries, which the Philippines is hoping will yield billions of dollars in Chinese loans and infrastructure investments.
> 
> The Hague award clarifies Philippine sovereign rights in its 200-mile Exclusive Economic Zone to access offshore oil and gas fields, including the Reed Bank, 85 nautical miles off its coast.
> 
> It also invalidated China's nine-dash line claim on its maps denoting sovereignty over most of the South China Sea.
> 
> Duterte has a reputation for his candid, at times incendiary, remarks and his office typically backpeddles on his behalf and blames the media for distorting his most controversial comments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Duterte recalled the same story about his discussion with Xi on oil exploration in a recorded television show aired moments after the speech.
> 
> He said Xi told him "do not touch it".
> 
> He said Xi had promised that the arbitration ruling would be discussed in future, but not now.
> 
> Duterte said China did not want to bring up the arbitral ruling at a time when other claimant countries, like Vietnam, might also decide to file cases against it at the arbitration tribunal.
> 
> It was not the first time the firebrand leader has publicly discussed the content of private meetings with other world leaders.
> 
> His remarks came the same day that China and the Philippines held their first session in a two-way consultation process on the South China Sea.
> 
> They exchanged views on "the importance of appropriately handling concerns, incidents and disputes involving the South China Sea", the Chinese Foreign Ministry said in a statement that gave few details.
> 
> Source: Reuters/mn
> Read more at http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asiapa...lls-for-8865896



The Singaporean government's controlled mouthpiece (mainly in broadcast/visual media), *The Channel News Asia*, like its sibling in printed media, *The Strait Times*, is just another extension of the Western-controlled army of trumpets so-called the mainstream media (MSM), a captured media regularly pushes forward the propaganda piece of the major news disseminator owned by Rothschild family from their base in London (the world's oldest financial enclave of the City of London), The Thomson Reuters, Reuters is its news arm.



Viet said:


> Why did you fail to buy the PCA when you had the chance? Now it is too late. The verdict is out there. No matter how loud you are crying now.
> 
> We explore oil and gas, we expand and build up our islands too. Wait for 10 years from now, we will build second Vietnam in the SC sea. All within China 9-dash line. What can you do against our undertaking? Writing more China peaceful rise articles?


By 2030 (put in additional 10 years if deferred in any case) the South China Sea questions will be solved once and for all!

Just live up and witness by then!!  



Viet said:


> proof I copied and pasted PCA website!
> 
> China signs the Haugue convention, but does not respect it. China signs UNCLOS, but does not respect it, either. the people outside China laugh at your logic, signing to international treaties but rejecting to follow the rules, citing ancient texts and hear-saying dating back thousand years ago nobody can check.


Just a blatant lie or misinformation piece!

CHINA SIGNED UNCLOS with very clear attached clause that UNCLOS will have NO jurisdiction over SOVEREIGNTY ISSUES in the South China Sea

The mainstream media aka. The Fake News manufacturer conveniently drop this part in their news! And you quoted them religiously.

At the end some stupid Asian country may very well push China to eventually adopt the method of the Uncle Sam, namely to talk with military muscle (bombing first, ask question or negotiate later) instead of using the civilized persuasive way!

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Viet

samsara said:


> EXCLUSIVE: Hunting ancient and modern treasures of South China Sea!
> Xinhua's Wang Jingzhong tells his own story.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/866575687334805504
> 
> 
> The Singaporean government's controlled mouthpiece (mainly in broadcast/visual media), *The Channel News Asia*, like its sibling in printed media, *The Strait Times*, is just another extension of the Western-controlled army of trumpets so-called the mainstream media (MSM), a captured media regularly pushes forward the propaganda piece of the major news disseminator owned by Rothschild family from their base in London (the world's oldest financial enclave of the City of London), The Thomson Reuters, Reuters is its news arm.
> 
> 
> By 2030 (put in additional 10 years if deferred in any case) the South China Sea questions will be solved once and for all!
> 
> Just live up and witness by then!!
> 
> 
> Just a blatant lie or misinformation piece!
> 
> CHINA SIGNED UNCLOS with very clear attached clause that UNCLOS will have NO jurisdiction over SOVEREIGNTY ISSUES in the South China Sea
> 
> The mainstream media aka. The Fake News manufacturer conveniently drop this part in their news! And you quoted them religiously.
> 
> At the end some stupid Asian country may very well push China to eventually adopt the method of the Uncle Sam, namely to talk with military muscle (bombing first, ask question or negotiate later) instead of using the civilized persuasive way!


You sound as funny as other Chinese warmongering nationalists. 2030 you are ready? Listen little boy, in 5 years the aliens of the planet Pluto will invade China and make you to slave. Pls don't bother other people with insulting and threatening (stupid asians hence the need to copy America), do when you are ready. We will be ready too.
You apparently don't read Unclos. Chinese declarations bear no meaning.


----------



## samsara

Viet said:


> You sound as funny as other Chinese warmongering nationalists. 2030 you are ready? Listen little boy, in 5 years the aliens of the planet Pluto will invade China and make you to slave. Pls don't bother other people with insulting and threatening (stupid asians hence the need to copy America), do when you are ready. We will be ready too.
> You apparently don't read Unclos. Chinese declarations bear no meaning.


Talk as much rubbish as you wish, the fact and reality will do the final say! Just wait and see whose belief will turn into fact  you bet on Vietnam while I bet on China  ha ha ha

_Meanwhile in realities..._

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/867419500181950465

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/867418360534970370

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## sinait

samsara said:


> The Singaporean government's controlled mouthpiece (mainly in broadcast/visual media), *The Channel News Asia*, like its sibling in printed media, *The Strait Times*, is just another extension of the Western-controlled army of trumpets so-called the mainstream media (MSM), a captured media regularly pushes forward the propaganda piece of the major news disseminator owned by Rothschild family from their base in London (the world's oldest financial enclave of the City of London), The Thomson Reuters, Reuters is its news arm.


Unfortunately, you are correct.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## bobsm

*In the South China Sea, the U.S. is Struggling to Halt Beijing’s Advance*

Despite a belated U.S. naval patrol, Beijing’s bid to extend its military power over the South China Sea is moving ahead unchecked.

BY DAN DE LUCE, KEITH JOHNSON
MAY 25, 2017
DAN.DELUCE@DANDELUCEfacebooktwittergoogle-plusredditLinkedIn email

In the South China Sea, the U.S. is Struggling to Halt Beijing’s Advance 
For the first time since President Donald Trump took office, a U.S. warship has sailed near a Chinese-controlled island in the disputed South China Sea, signaling an attempt to project a more assertive American stance against Beijing just before a major regional defense summit.

The mission, a passage by the guided missile destroyer USS Dewey on Wednesday within twelve nautical miles of Mischief Reef, in the Spratly island chain, was long anticipated and delayed. The last such operation took place in October, and U.S. commanders who had already chafed under Barack Obama’s tight leash had hoped to get a freer hand and to carry out more patrols under Trump.

Instead, the new administration has declined several requests from the military to carry out naval patrols in the disputed waterway. Eager to secure China’s help in pressuring North Korea over its nuclear weapons program, the White House has moved cautiously and chosen not to confront Beijing over the South China Sea, officials and congressional aides told Foreign Policy.

But with defense ministers and senior military officers from across Asia due to meet in Singapore next month, including U.S. Defense Secretary James Mattis, the administration needed to show it was willing to back up its words with some action and demonstrate that it would uphold the principle of freedom of navigation, experts said.

“This was a good, albeit overdue, move by the Trump Administration,” said Ely Ratner, formerly deputy national security adviser to Joe Biden and now at the Council on Foreign Relations.

It was the first time a U.S. warship had sailed within the twelve-mile limit of any Chinese-held feature — a way to show that Washington doesn’t buy Beijing’s claims that rocks generate a territorial sea, and so push back against China’s expansionist claims. “This was the big one folks were waiting for,” he said.

And while those so-called freedom of navigation operations, or FONOPS, by themselves don’t amount to a U.S. strategy to deal with the South China Sea, he said, the first step is to make sure that China can’t unilaterally fence off bits of international waters. “FONOPs are an essential part of that,” Ratner said.

During the campaign and early days of the administration, Trump and his deputies staked out a tough line on China. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson suggested in his confirmation hearings that U.S. forces would actually try to expel China from disputed waters and islets it now claims.

But North Korea and its rapidly-expanding missile and nuclear weapons program have grabbed the attention of the Trump administration, pushing the disputes over the Chinese land grab in the South China Sea — and Beijing’s open militarization of many islets and atolls — to the back burner. Trump has toned down his rhetoric on trade disputes and other spats with China specifically to secure Beijing’s cooperation in defusing the North Korea crisis.

“The president and his advisers have calculated that if we are to get China’s help on North Korea, better to take the foot off the gas on more contentious issues,” said Mira Rapp-Hooper, a senior fellow at the Center for a New American Security.

Even though as a candidate Trump portrayed former president Barack Obama as a weak president in his dealings with China and other adversaries, his administration’s cautious diplomacy bears some resemblance to Obama’s policies, as the previous White House concluded that more could be gained from Beijing by avoiding a full-blown confrontation over the South China Sea or other disputes.

Much to the consternation of U.S. allies in Asia, the Trump White House has yet to fill senior positions at the State Department and the Pentagon handling Asia policy, and has said little about the South China Sea issue publicly. The uncertainty over the administration’s policy on China has alarmed America’s partners and weakened the resolve of some governments in Southeast Asia, who fear Washington will no longer back them up if they try to take on Beijing in the South China Sea.

At a meeting last month in Manila of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations, government ministers from the region backed off of references to “land reclamation and militarization” after lobbying from China.

The Pentagon sought to downplay the significance of the operation, which it described as routine. Adm. John Richardson, the chief of naval operations, described the passage at an event in Washington Thursday as “not confrontational,” and said that the so-called freedom of navigation operations by U.S. ships receive exaggerated scrutiny for the supposed diplomatic messages they convey.

“They sure get a lot of attention when they happen,” he said, but the operations are routinely conducted all over the world without the fanfare associated with the South China Sea missions.

The operations sure get a lot of attention in China.

The Dewey’s patrol “undermined China’s sovereignty and security interests and is highly likely to cause untoward incidents in the waters and airspace,” a Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson said Thursday.

Citing China’s “indisputable sovereignty” over those islets and surrounding waters, he added: “We strongly urge the U.S. side to correct its wrongdoing and stop any provocative actions detrimental to China’s sovereignty and security interests so as to avoid any further damage to China-US cooperation and regional peace and stability.”

And such operations are also closely watched in Washington, rightly or wrongly, as a barometer of the administration’s willingness to push back against China. Amid growing concern in Congress that the Trump administration is making strategic concessions to China in hopes of persuading Beijing to shift its stance on North Korea, several senators from both sides of the aisle wrote a letter earlier this month urging the administration to show resolve in the South China Sea and conduct more frequent naval patrols in the waterway.

The first real test of the effect of Wednesday’s naval mission will come in early June at the Shangri-La dialogue, a large annual gathering in Singapore that serves as a venue for high-level talks on crucial matters of Asian security.

Many maritime experts view the focus on freedom of navigation operations, and how they are publicly presented, as misplaced.

“In my view, the publicity around the FONOPs is problematic. Many observers now view it as an indicator of U.S. resolve, which it is not,” said M. Taylor Fravel, an expert on Chinese maritime issues at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. Such missions are merely meant to uphold traditional rights to navigation in international waters for all countries, he said. What’s more, they can give Beijing an excuse to ramp up its own provocative behavior, feeling as if its claims of sovereignty are being challenged.

“They were never intended to do more, such as deterring China’s broader ambitions in places like the South China Sea.”

*Ultimately, and despite the belated U.S. mission near Mischief Reef, Washington has few tools at its disposal to convince China to retreat from its years-long acquisition and garrisoning of a spate of tiny reefs and atolls in the South China Sea, one of the world’s busiest waterways. Some experts and lawmakers have urged imposing economic sanctions on Chinese companies taking part in the vast island-building project, but the Trump administration has shown no sign it is ready to consider such a move.

Since it began dredging sand from the seafloor to vastly expand the size of those pinpricks of coral in 2014, China has built airfields, deep harbors and air defense systems on many features and deployed advanced fighter jets, despite promises to stop militarizing the area.

The bid to extend its reach in the waterway is part of China’s much broader effort — backed up with an arsenal of missiles — to push out its defensive perimeter from the Chinese coast and keep potential rivals at arm’s length in the event of a conflict.*

*“The United States does not have great options in the South China Sea,” Fravel said. “China will not vacate the features it occupies and the United States will not forcibly remove them. “*

*China’s project has moved at a brisk pace, with reports of new military installations appearing every few weeks. Earlier this month, a state-run Chinese paper said that Beijing had installed 155 mm rocket launchers on Fiery Cross reef in the Spratlys, purportedly to deter combat divers from Vietnam, which has been at loggerheads with China over territorial claims in the South China Sea.*

*“They basically succeeded in their construction projects, and are now well on their way to having floating bases out in the Spratly Islands, and there’s been really very little pushback and they’ve had to pay very little cost for doing so,” said Rapp-Hooper.

She added: “It is, unfortunately, now game over.”*

https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/05/2...e-u-s-is-struggling-to-halt-beijings-advance/

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## terranMarine

The US does not hold the cards, China does. For the DPRK situation China is THE KEY, that's the kind of importance China is: our direct involvement. Without China US can forget about diplomatic solution. Pissing China off in SCS definitely won't help. SCS is not US core interest, DPRK nuclear missile program is way more important than that so it was no surprise regarding Trump's reluctance playing hardball with China. If he chose to do so things would get ugly, China can easily supply our neighbor the required necessities  , having amnesia in regard to sanctions and what not. Whether Fat Kim listens or ignores China's calls that's beyond us, China remains the center of the solution nevertheless.

Right now China has kept on winning, we expanded our islands, militarized them despite US objections 
Like i said what's the US gonna do about it? What the US is now doing with the latest FONOP is trying to convince Vietnam, PH, Malay that US is "committed" in this region on their behalf. Will they believe it?

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## TaiShang

terranMarine said:


> Right now China has kept on winning, we expanded our islands, militarized them despite US objections



You are wrong! US is winning!! Hear what the weirdo says:

"We're gonna win so much, you may even get tired of winning. And you'll say, "Please, please. It's too much winning. We can't take it anymore. Mr. President, it's too much." And I'll say, "No, it isn't!""

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## JSCh

*China's Sansha gets remote diagnosis facilities*
(Xinhua) 20:57, May 27, 2017

SANSHA, May 27 (Xinhua) -- China's newest city, Sansha, in the South China Sea, has received remote diagnosis facilities, enabling fishermen and other locals to consult experienced doctors in distant better-equipped hospitals.

The facilities include a high-definition video conferencing system, a picture archiving and communications system, and portable electrocardiography monitors.

The equipment, donated by the Second Affiliated Hospital of Zhejiang University School of Medicine, arrived at Sansha People's Hospital Friday.

"Sansha's health care system is starting from scratch. Internet technology brings high-quality health care in developed regions to us," said Zhuang Zhongjun, a Hainan Province health official.

Trials of long-distance diagnosis have been conducted, connecting a makeshift clinic on a boat with a doctors' office in the Zhejiang hospital. About 20 fishermen consulted doctors on their symptoms ranging from itching skin to a sore neck.

It has been well received, but the weak Internet connection sometimes causes disruptions.

Wang Jian'an, president of the Zhejiang hospital, said his hospital would regularly send doctors to Sansha to complement the distance medical service and to boost disease prevention.

China set up the Sansha municipality in 2012. The city government is located on Yongxing Island, the largest island of the Xisha Islands in the South China Sea.

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Banglar Bir

*The Economist explains What a new agreement means for the South China Sea*
China and ASEAN agree on a “framework” for a code of conduct




*The Economist explains*
May 30th 2017
by J.F. | SINGAPORE

THE long-running dispute between China and its rivals in the South China Sea centres on an apparently insoluble conflict: China’s maritime claims overlap with those of Brunei, Indonesia, Malaysia, the Philippines and Vietnam. Nobody wants to go to war; nobody wants to back down. 
To reduce the chances of armed conflict and give all claimants a chance to save face, the countries have ostensibly been negotiating a set of rules designed to regulate behaviour and manage tensions for decades. 
The idea was first mooted by the Association of South-East Asian Nations (ASEAN) in the late 1990s, after China's seizure in 1995 of a Philippine-claimed reef; since then, negotiations have proceeded haltingly. But on May 18th the two sides agreed on a framework for a “code of conduct”. It will be presented to foreign ministers in August, and will form the basis for future negotiations. Both sides congratulated themselves on their progress. But will it amount to anything?




If history is a guide, there is every reason to be pessimistic. In a “Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea”, signed in 2002, China and ASEAN promised “co-operation” and “self-restraint”, recognised “the need to promote a peaceful, friendly and harmonious environment” and said they would abide by the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), and work towards a code of conduct. 

Nine years later, the two sides agreed to a vague set of guidelines to implement the declaration. And in July 2016 China agreed to expedite talks about a code of conduct—a decision some suspect was driven by the election of Rodrigo Duterte to the presidency of the Philippines. Mr Duterte’s predecessor, Benigno Aquino, had filed a case against China with an international tribunal in The Hague, accusing it of violating UNCLOS. The tribunal ruled in favour of the Philippines. But Mr Duterte, far more favourably disposed towards China than Mr Aquino, offered to “set aside” the ruling. 

Hence this framework, which they concocted in record time. Its text has not (yet) been leaked. A draft version from March talked about “promot[ing] mutual trust”, a “duty to co-operate” and “self-restraint”. The 2002 Declaration used similar phrases, which failed to restrain anybody—least of all China, which set about building artificial, apparently military-ready islands in disputed waters. Like the Declaration, this framework appears to lack any enforcement mechanisms or consequences for violating any of the (potential) code’s terms. That seems to suit all parties, who claim to want peace and stability, but not to have their freedom circumscribed. This framework lets China look co-operative without having to constrain its behaviour; and it gives ASEAN bureaucrats a sense that their much-vaunted process is producing results.

Assuming the foreign ministers approve the framework in August, another long round of thorny negotiations will begin. Except this time, China gets a friendly leader in the Philippines, one of its main maritime rivals. It also gets Donald Trump, whose unpredictability may rattle the Chinese, but whose mercantile, transactional approach to foreign affairs suits China far better than Barack Obama’s principled defence of a rules-based international order. And it gets rivals sweetened by “One Belt, One Road” infrastructure investment, and unsettled by America’s sudden disarray. In other words, this agreement lets China consolidate its gains with minimal interference and a veneer of good regional citizenship.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/econ.../n/n/Daily_Dispatch/email&etear=dailydispatch

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## grey boy 2

近期，越南渔船频频出现在生产平台周围，要么把缆绳挂靠到平台桩腿；要么在平台附近排污；要么开着船围绕平台转，白天黑夜乐此不疲。已经严重影响到平台的正常安全生产，平台任何劝说喊话都不起作用，我们唯有用水炮、拖轮驱赶
Waiting in line for some holy water (niao shui) sincerely 
Finally, blessing granted to those believers from the almighty "Middle Kingdom" 
Enjoy comrades

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## TaiShang

grey boy 2 said:


>



Friendly wash.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cirr

TaiShang said:


> Friendly wash.



*New long-range maritime surveillance plane could cover all of S China Sea: report*

2017-06-22 09:16

Global Times _Editor: Li Yan_

The first medium-to-long-range maritime-surveillance plane under the Chinese State Oceanic Administration has started operation at the South China Sea Branch of the government department.

The B-5002 plane, whose wingspan is about 30 meters, is the biggest and fastest maritime-monitoring plane in China. It also holds the record for the longest distance in flight among all Chinese maritime-monitoring planes, which theoretically could cover the whole South China Sea, China Ocean News reported Tuesday.

According to the report, the plane will perform monitoring tasks in a variety of areas including maritime environment protection, sea island exploitation and maritime rights maintenance as well as maritime research and rescue.

The aircraft's operation will effectively enlarge the scope of China's maritime and aviation law enforcement, promoting law enforcement in the South China Sea to a higher standard, the report said.

The plane is manufactured by the AVIC Xi'an Aircraft Industry (Group) Company LTD, modeled after the China-made Xinzhou-60 plane. It is equipped with some advanced hardware and software with a total value of nearly 100 million yuan ($14.6 million). It went into service on Monday.

http://www.ecns.cn/2017/06-22/262429.shtml

*South China Sea research data to be digitized*

2017-06-22 09:00

Global Times _Editor: Li Yan_





Photo shows a piece of rock sample from the seabed of South China Sea on April 2, 2017. (Photo/Xinhua)

China launched a project on Wednesday to digitize the information collected from the country's scientific research and investigations in the South China Sea, including the islands and reefs in the region.

The South China Sea Institute of Oceanography under the Chinese Academy of Sciences, announced the project at a conference in South China's Guangdong Province, the China News Service reported.

The project demonstrates China's actual sovereignty over this region, said Liu Feng, a Hainan-based expert on the South China Sea.

"Scientific research is also a method, besides political and economic measures, to safeguard our rights and interests in the region," Liu said.

The project will collect and digitize information including hydrometeorological data, marine chemical data and geologic-environmental data of the South China Sea and its affiliated islands and coral reefs, said the China News Service report.

It added that a comprehensive digital database will be built, and a series of books will be published when the project is finished.

Liu noted that "the project can compile all of our previous work into a system, which will support further research in the South China Sea."

A total of 193 research fellows and more than 10 Chinese research institutes and universities will take part in the project.

http://www.ecns.cn/2017/06-22/262411.shtml

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## xiao qi

Han Warrior said:


> I think you should read history from a neutral source, Chinese sources were leaked by dissidents to US and it's a more logical number 6000-9000 Chinese troops killed by guerrilla warfare. China also learnt from US not to fight in the jungles but concentrate in the urban areas. Bulk of Vietnamese forces were in Hanoi for defense, and Cambodia, low possibility to inflict heavy damage on China. The Vietnamese did not dare face China head on, they were counting on Chinese withdrawal. We were already reaching the gates of Hanoi literally, but the message was sent, and we withdrew to the relief of Vietnam. I don't think China would have attacked Hanoi, if they did, the casualties would be immense. If we did attack Hanoi, then it is possible for Chinese casualties to reach that high. Else, I think 6k - 9k seems logical and Vietnamese death are mostly militias(more like civilians) in around 50-60k.
> 
> Btw, don't misunderstand me, China has no intention to conquer or colonize Vietnam, we are already big enough, just give us back those islands you took after KMT withdrew. Before 1949, all those islands were literally under KMT control, they withdrew and you guys came in to take in. When Mao ask Vietnam why they did that when China supported Vietcong, you know what Vietnamese answered? They said China is already so big, why not spare a few rocks for Vietnam. You betrayed us! We sacrificed our soldiers and equipment to give you independence.



For Vietnam- Sino War : This is one battle among hundred battle in Vietnamese-Chinese war "The lack of military skills was illustrated by Chinese combat performance in the battle for Cao Ba Lanh, a strategic peak located 9 km from the border crossing at Hoành Mô: a regiment-sized Chinese force, after five hours staging numerous waves of mass formation attacks and the toll of 360 casualties, were eventually able to capture a height defended by a single Vietnamese platoon" So I agree for the number of 50-60k Vietnamese civil + soldiers died but the number of Chinese is higher the number you give many times. 

If sources are to be believed, there was reason for which China considered Vietnam ungrateful. From as early as 1949 to 1977, China was, alongside the Soviet Union, *a major supporter of Vietnam in its unification war*. China's assistance from 1949 to 1955 was instrumental in Vietnamese war against France, turning Vietnamese guerrilla into a regular army.

From 1955 to 1977, China assisted Vietnam in developing the country while fighting the Americans in the south. Below is a figure I came across and included in my thesis.





The amount of support was massive considering that from 1966 China entered a state of national crisis (i.e. Cultural Revolution & famines). Such support during such dire time was important to the Vietnamese struggle.

So, in a way Vietnam owed China a lot. As such, China was confident that Vietnam would support it in its bid to compete with Russia (Xin, 2009). Instead, Vietnam was hellbent on unifying the country and could care less about the bickering between China and Russia. It instead wanted to stay as neutral as possible. So at this stage it stood out of the fight, and China did not really like it.

Also, Vietnam was extraordinarily active in Indochina (Chanda, 1986). It was the center of communist movement in Indochina and, by right, its leaders believed it was to have predominance in the region. China was not particularly happy with Vietnam's operations in Lao and Cambodia, and this was also a source of friction between the two countries in the 1955 - 1975.

So, to China Vietnam was not the most amicable "brother". But Vietnam had reasons to view China in a negative way, too. First, China, during Vietnam War, *normalized relations with the United States*, casting doubt on their commitment to help Vietnam. Leaders in Vietnam saw this as a compromise that did not bode well for Vietnam and the communist countries. It should be noted that China did this not long after their conflict with Russia, another communist state, so it was not strange to Vietnamese leaders to think that China was double-dealing behind their back.

Second, China *did not assist Vietnam in solving the ethnic Chinese issue in Vietnam*. Most of these people, who lived in southern Vietnam, resisted attempts to register them as Vietnamese citizens and even requested assistance from China. The Vietnamese government saw this as a betrayal, and took harsh measures. Likely they thought that China was only making the matter worse for Vietnam. The amount of ethnic Chinese forcibly returned to China took a toll of China's economy, so the Chinese resented the Vietnamese from that point.

Third and most gravely, China *assisted the Pol Pot who blatantly attacked Vietnam*. The Khmer already became intimate to China and China gave them a lot of weapons for "aid". Then they bought the fight to the Vietnamese. The Vietnamese requested the Chinese to be the arbiter, but China declined. Shortly after, China also stopped all aid to Vietnam. To them that was necessary to rebuild China, but the Vietnamese saw this as an attempt by China to sever all ties with Vietnam.

The last straw was the Khmer made an all-out assault in 1979. In retaliation, Vietnam invaded Cambodia in two weeks, and shortly after China invaded Vietnam in two months. The decisions to open fire put an end to China-Vietnam relations for the next decade.

I think the war between China and Vietnam was the result of both countries' leaders' arrogance and misjudgment of each other's policies and actions. The United States, the ethnic Chinese and the Khmer were only the fuel that added more to the already blazing flame. I don't think any country was entirely at fault but their actions resulted a decade of hostility and current animosity between the two countries.

For SCS :





Bao dai letter reaffirmed Vietnam’s sovereignty over Paracel archipelagos - 1939

















Vietnamese *saluting the flag at (Pattle), Paracel Islands*





Ancient statue built by Vietnamese in the south-west of the Paracels.





Asia in Praecipuas Ipsius Partes Distributa by Van der AA - 1594





Insulae Indiae Orientalis by Jodocus Hondius - 1632





Map of Replublic of Vietnam that show the Paracel and Spratly archipelagoes are under South Viet Nam’s sovereignty , why South Vietnam ? Because it lay under 17th parallel , it temporarily divided _Vietnam_ along the _17th parallel._





Republic of Vietnam stele on the Spratly Islands with Republic of Vietnam naval officer beside

Most clear map i can found so people can zoom-in is : The Complete Map of the Unified Great Nam 1834





It show group of islands - draws symbolically

_For effective management of island and sea areas, particularly Hoang Sa and Truong Sa archipelagoes, the Nguyen Lords founded Bac Hai flotilla with sailors selected from Tu Chinh village in Binh Thuan province and Canh Duong commune. Those who join the flotilla would be granted permits by the Nguyen Lords and exempted from poll tax or river-crossing charges. It is recorded in historical documents that Bac Hai flotilla operated in a fairly large sea area belonging to southern and southern central provinces of Vietnam, patrolling Con Dao (Poulo Condor) island and others islands in Ha Tien sea bordering on the present-day gulf of Thailand._

_In addition to Bac Hai flotilla, the Nguyen Lords also founded Hoang Sa flotilla to conduct marine patrol and control, exploit marine products and collect ship-wrecked cargoes floating to Hoang Sa and Truong Sa areas. Hoang Sa flotilla was carefully prepared for every long voyage, first obtaining the permission of the Nguyen Lords, then preparing vessels and food. Historian Phan Huy Chu wrote in “Lich Trieu Hien Chuong Loai Chi” (Classified Rules of Dynasties):_

_“Hoang Sa flotilla was set up by the Nguyen Lords with 70 crewmembers chosen from An Vinh village (Ly Son of Quang Ngai) on a rotational basis. In the third month of every year, by order of the Nguyen Lords, the men sailed on five small vessels, bringing with them enough food for six months, and reached these islands after three full days. There, they were free to catch fishes for food and collect plenty of precious items. In the eighth month, the sailors returned to the mainland through Thuan An estuary, then they came to Phu Xuan citadel to hand over items they have collected._

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Han Patriot

xiao qi said:


> For Vietnam- Sino War : This is one battle among hundred battle in Vietnamese-Chinese war "The lack of military skills was illustrated by Chinese combat performance in the battle for Cao Ba Lanh, a strategic peak located 9 km from the border crossing at Hoành Mô: a regiment-sized Chinese force, after five hours staging numerous waves of mass formation attacks and the toll of 360 casualties, were eventually able to capture a height defended by a single Vietnamese platoon" So I agree for the number of 50-60k Vietnamese civil + soldiers died but the number of Chinese is higher the number you give many times.
> 
> If sources are to be believed, there was reason for which China considered Vietnam ungrateful. From as early as 1949 to 1977, China was, alongside the Soviet Union, *a major supporter of Vietnam in its unification war*. China's assistance from 1949 to 1955 was instrumental in Vietnamese war against France, turning Vietnamese guerrilla into a regular army.
> 
> From 1955 to 1977, China assisted Vietnam in developing the country while fighting the Americans in the south. Below is a figure I came across and included in my thesis.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The amount of support was massive considering that from 1966 China entered a state of national crisis (i.e. Cultural Revolution & famines). Such support during such dire time was important to the Vietnamese struggle.
> 
> So, in a way Vietnam owed China a lot. As such, China was confident that Vietnam would support it in its bid to compete with Russia (Xin, 2009). Instead, Vietnam was hellbent on unifying the country and could care less about the bickering between China and Russia. It instead wanted to stay as neutral as possible. So at this stage it stood out of the fight, and China did not really like it.
> 
> Also, Vietnam was extraordinarily active in Indochina (Chanda, 1986). It was the center of communist movement in Indochina and, by right, its leaders believed it was to have predominance in the region. China was not particularly happy with Vietnam's operations in Lao and Cambodia, and this was also a source of friction between the two countries in the 1955 - 1975.
> 
> So, to China Vietnam was not the most amicable "brother". But Vietnam had reasons to view China in a negative way, too. First, China, during Vietnam War, *normalized relations with the United States*, casting doubt on their commitment to help Vietnam. Leaders in Vietnam saw this as a compromise that did not bode well for Vietnam and the communist countries. It should be noted that China did this not long after their conflict with Russia, another communist state, so it was not strange to Vietnamese leaders to think that China was double-dealing behind their back.
> 
> Second, China *did not assist Vietnam in solving the ethnic Chinese issue in Vietnam*. Most of these people, who lived in southern Vietnam, resisted attempts to register them as Vietnamese citizens and even requested assistance from China. The Vietnamese government saw this as a betrayal, and took harsh measures. Likely they thought that China was only making the matter worse for Vietnam. The amount of ethnic Chinese forcibly returned to China took a toll of China's economy, so the Chinese resented the Vietnamese from that point.
> 
> Third and most gravely, China *assisted the Pol Pot who blatantly attacked Vietnam*. The Khmer already became intimate to China and China gave them a lot of weapons for "aid". Then they bought the fight to the Vietnamese. The Vietnamese requested the Chinese to be the arbiter, but China declined. Shortly after, China also stopped all aid to Vietnam. To them that was necessary to rebuild China, but the Vietnamese saw this as an attempt by China to sever all ties with Vietnam.
> 
> The last straw was the Khmer made an all-out assault in 1979. In retaliation, Vietnam invaded Cambodia in two weeks, and shortly after China invaded Vietnam in two months. The decisions to open fire put an end to China-Vietnam relations for the next decade.
> 
> I think the war between China and Vietnam was the result of both countries' leaders' arrogance and misjudgment of each other's policies and actions. The United States, the ethnic Chinese and the Khmer were only the fuel that added more to the already blazing flame. I don't think any country was entirely at fault but their actions resulted a decade of hostility and current animosity between the two countries.
> 
> For SCS :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bao dai letter reaffirmed Vietnam’s sovereignty over Paracel archipelagos - 1939
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vietnamese *saluting the flag at (Pattle), Paracel Islands*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ancient statue built by Vietnamese in the south-west of the Paracels.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Asia in Praecipuas Ipsius Partes Distributa by Van der AA - 1594
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Insulae Indiae Orientalis by Jodocus Hondius - 1632
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Map of Replublic of Vietnam that show the Paracel and Spratly archipelagoes are under South Viet Nam’s sovereignty , why South Vietnam ? Because it lay under 17th parallel , it temporarily divided _Vietnam_ along the _17th parallel._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Republic of Vietnam stele on the Spratly Islands with Republic of Vietnam naval officer beside
> 
> Most clear map i can found so people can zoom-in is : The Complete Map of the Unified Great Nam 1834
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It show group of islands - draws symbolically
> 
> _For effective management of island and sea areas, particularly Hoang Sa and Truong Sa archipelagoes, the Nguyen Lords founded Bac Hai flotilla with sailors selected from Tu Chinh village in Binh Thuan province and Canh Duong commune. Those who join the flotilla would be granted permits by the Nguyen Lords and exempted from poll tax or river-crossing charges. It is recorded in historical documents that Bac Hai flotilla operated in a fairly large sea area belonging to southern and southern central provinces of Vietnam, patrolling Con Dao (Poulo Condor) island and others islands in Ha Tien sea bordering on the present-day gulf of Thailand._
> 
> _In addition to Bac Hai flotilla, the Nguyen Lords also founded Hoang Sa flotilla to conduct marine patrol and control, exploit marine products and collect ship-wrecked cargoes floating to Hoang Sa and Truong Sa areas. Hoang Sa flotilla was carefully prepared for every long voyage, first obtaining the permission of the Nguyen Lords, then preparing vessels and food. Historian Phan Huy Chu wrote in “Lich Trieu Hien Chuong Loai Chi” (Classified Rules of Dynasties):_
> 
> _“Hoang Sa flotilla was set up by the Nguyen Lords with 70 crewmembers chosen from An Vinh village (Ly Son of Quang Ngai) on a rotational basis. In the third month of every year, by order of the Nguyen Lords, the men sailed on five small vessels, bringing with them enough food for six months, and reached these islands after three full days. There, they were free to catch fishes for food and collect plenty of precious items. In the eighth month, the sailors returned to the mainland through Thuan An estuary, then they came to Phu Xuan citadel to hand over items they have collected._


I agree most of the things you said except for the casualty numbers. To me China held those islands before Vietnamese independence circa KMT era in the 30s - 49, but geographically speaking it should have belonged to Vietnam/Philippines. But due to Chinese policy of safeguarding every inch of Chinese soil, we have no choice but to reclaim it.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## TaiShang

*Philippine slams outside interference in South China Sea dispute*
(People's Daily Online) 16:54, August 09, 2017






Philippine Foreign Secretary Alan Peter Cayetano on Tuesday warned countries outside of the South China Sea, denouncing their interference in the disputed water.

The remarks come on the heel of a joint statement issued by the U.S., Japan, and Australia on Aug.7 calling on China and the Philippines to abide by the 2016 arbitration ruling on South China Sea.

In response to the accusation, Cayetno said the Philippines is sovereign and independent and will not be instructed by other nations when it comes to the South China Sea issue. The Secretary also noted that the Philippines will decide what is best for the country’s national interest.

Though the U.S., Japan, and Australia are not claimants in the South China Sea, they have been constantly vocal on the dispute, calling for so-called “Freedom of Navigation” to satisfy their own needs.

Countries in the region, on the other hand, have reached certain consensus on the issue. The foreign ministers of the Association of Southeastern Asian Nations (ASEAN) issued a joint communiqué on Sunday, in which they took note of the improving situation in the South China Sea over the past year, agreeing that promoting peace, stability, and prosperity in the region will benefit all parties.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## IblinI



Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## Taygibay

YuChen said:


>



What designation will that new carrier carry? 004A型航空母艦 ?
And its tonnage must be humongous!


Have a nice day, Tay.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## TaiShang

*New Chinese fighter pilots conduct solo night flight over South China Sea*
(People's Daily Online) 15:23, August 23, 2017






(Photo/CCTV)

China's newest fighter pilots of a naval aviation division of the South China Sea Fleet of the People's Liberation Army (PLA) successfully conducted their first solo night flight drill over the South China Sea, CCTV news reported on Aug.22.

*The new pilots conducted competitive training exercises, including multi-fighter cooperative air combat, intercepts, and searching for and attacking targets at night over the South China Sea.*






(Photo/CCTV)

"Night flights are important for round-the-clock combat missions. By making full use of the complicated natural battlefield environment of the South China Sea, we hope to build an air force composed of competent fighter pilots," said Cui Meng, battalion chief of the naval aviation division.

The Chinese Navy training plan was based on research of night flights. The Navy also formulated a special implementation program and response measures in case of extraordinary circumstances ahead of the drill.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## JSCh

*Smart microgrid-based desalination systems installed in Sansha*
By Sun Wenyu (People's Daily Online) 18:40, August 25, 2017






(Photo/Science and Technology Daily)​
Smart microgrid-based desalination systems have been installed in Sansha, China's southernmost city. The system, employing wind power and solar energy, can produce high-quality drinking water out of sea water.

Desalination used to be a high energy-consuming industry. Statistics show that by using conventional energy, it would take 46,600 kilowatt hours to desalinate 10,000 tons of sea water, the equivalent to 18.8 tons of coal and 46.4 tons of carbon dioxide emissions.

In order to have an economical and stable desalination system off the national grid, Jiangsu Fenghai New Energy Seawater Desalination Development Co., Ltd. explored a unique technology that combines a large-capacity generator and small-capacity energy storage system, successfully breaking the energy bottleneck.

The company established China's first 10,000-ton wind-power demonstration project of sea water desalination in Jiangsu province in May 2014, applying an advanced energy management system and a series of storage converters to adjust the load. By doing this, the company found an effective solution to desalinate sea water using new energy.

"Now the demonstration project can desalinate 10,000 tons of sea water per day, including 1,000 tons of vessel water, 8,200 tons of municipal water, and 800 tons of purified water," said Wang Jiafu, research and development manager of the company.

Later, the company upgraded the 10,000-ton device, transforming the mega project into one that could be applied on small islands.

According to Wang, the company reduced the size of the device and packed it into a container which could be operated off the national power grid. "It's like a computer, ready for use once connected with wires and tubes," Wang explained.

In addition, the container-style system's anti-corrosion and high-temperature resistance technologies make it typhoon proof. The device could enable people to survive on any isolated island.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## cochine

Last update 15:58 | 24/08/2017
 0


Vietnam objects to Taiwan’s live-fire drill in Truong Sa
_Foreign Ministry Spokesperson Le Thi Thu Hang has voiced Vietnam’s strong opposition to Taiwan’s live-fire drill on Ba Binh (Itu Aba) Island, part of the Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelago, and asked the Chinese territory not to repeat similar actions._



_



_

_Foreign Ministry Spokesperson Le Thi Thu Hang _



Responding to reporters’ question about the recent live-fire drill of Taiwan, she said on August 24 that: “Vietnam has sufficient legal foundation and historical evidence testifying to its sovereignty over Hoang Sa (Paracel) and Truong Sa archipelagos.”

Taiwan’s live-fire drills in the sea area surrounding Ba Binh Island of Vietnam’s Truong Sa archipelago for many times seriously violated Vietnam’s territorial sovereignty over this archipelago, threatened peace, stability, safety, and security of navigation, caused tensions and complicated the situation in the East Sea, she said.

“Once again, Vietnam resolutely objects and requests Taiwan not to repeat similar actions,” the spokesperson noted.

_VNA_

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cochine

*Vietnam protests over Chinese live-fire drill in seized island*
By Staff reporters September 5, 2017 | 08:54 pm GMT+7
*The objection came just several days after Hanoi bristled at Beijing’s military exercises in the Gulf of Tonkin.*
China's announced live-fire drill on the Paracel archipelago in the troubled South China Sea, which Vietnam calls the East Sea, is a serious violation of Hanoi's territorial sovereignty, the Vietnamese foreign ministry said in a statement late Tuesday.

“Vietnam strongly opposes this action and demands that China respect Vietnam’s sovereignty over the Hoang Sa archipelago and cease and refrain from repeating acts” that threaten peace and stability in the East Sea and the region, Le Thi Thu Hang, Vietnam’s foreign ministry spokesperson, said, employing the Vietnamese name for the Paracels, the island chain China took from Vietnam by force in 1974.

"We will resolutely protect our sovereignty and our legitimate rights and interests in the East Sea through peaceful measures that are in accordance with international laws," Hang said.

The Maritime Safety Administration of China’s southern province of Hainan, which oversees the East Sea, announced that military drills would take place south of the province and east of Vietnam from August 29 until September 4, _Reuters _reported. That would include live-fire drills around the Paracel Islands until Sunday, according to the newswire.

Last Thursday, Vietnam also said it was deeply concerned about the Chinese exercises in the Gulf of Tonkin area, at the north end of the East Sea. Vietnam and China agreed on an equal split of the maritime boundary of the Gulf of Tonkin in 2000.

“The drills themselves are not unusual,” Gregory Poling, director of the Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, said.

“China does several military drills in the South China Sea each year, including frequently in the Gulf of Tonkin and around the Paracels. And Vietnam protests them anytime they occur in waters that Hanoi considers to be disputed," Poling said.

But "the language of the objection from Vietnam highlights that tensions are high right now.”

China invaded the Paracel Islands in 1974, as American forces withdrew from the region, abandoning a naval unit of the then U.S.-backed Republic of Vietnam to a brief but bloody assault.

Vietnam's behemoth northern neighbor has illegally occupied the islands ever since; re-unified Vietnam has never relinquished its sovereignty over the Paracel Islands.

http://e.vnexpress.net/news/news/vi...live-fire-drill-in-seized-island-3637348.html


----------



## grey boy 2

Check this out, stunning, unbelievable evolution of our "Unsinkable Aircraft-Carrier" in a 5 years span
砥砺奋进的五年：南沙永暑礁旧貌换新颜震撼世界

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## sinait

grey boy 2 said:


> Check this out, stunning, unbelievable evolution of our "Unsinkable Aircraft-Carrier" in a 5 years span
> 砥砺奋进的五年：南沙永暑礁旧貌换新颜震撼世界


It literally does look like a gigantic aircraft carrier.
Magnificent !!!
Mo Tak Teng.
.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## grey boy 2

sinait said:


> It literally does look like a gigantic aircraft carrier.
> Magnificent !!!
> Mo Tak Teng.
> .


My take:Ho lung gink LOL

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## samsara

grey boy 2 said:


> Check this out, stunning, unbelievable evolution of our "Unsinkable Aircraft-Carrier" in a 5 years span
> 砥砺奋进的五年：南沙永暑礁旧貌换新颜震撼世界


What captivating pictures... truly beautiful !!!

And the Yongshu Island 永暑岛, part of the Nansha Islands, is very strategically located in the middle of the South China Sea, with good airport can hold large plane and have many other facilities such as hospital, water desalination, vegetable gardening, mobile cellular coverage, lighthouse and even some object of interests for domestic tourists. This island is crucial in ensuring the safety of the China's maritime trade sea lane sailing through the South China Sea.





_The Yongshu Island 永暑岛 is the left leg at this triangular mark with large airports._



sinait said:


> It literally does look like a gigantic aircraft carrier.
> Magnificent !!!
> Mo Tak Teng.
> .


Even bigger than Ford-class CV?  some parties seeing these latest pics may cry baby out of envy 



Taygibay said:


> What designation will that new carrier carry? 004A型航空母艦 ?
> And its tonnage must be humongous!
> 
> 
> Have a nice day, Tay.


EVEN WAY LARGER than FORD-Class CV  ha ha ha

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Kulas Mata

UMNOPutra said:


> Now .. we know who are the winner and lossers ...
> -------
> *'Game over' for PHL if China finishes building in Scarborough –Justice Carpio*



Only the local mainstream media are keeping Carpio's warmongering alive on the national consciousness of the Philippines, together with Rep. Alejano, who's a former failed military mutineer himself during the time of former Pres. Arroyo (coincidentally her administration had a good rapport with China too). Both men are an avid critics of Duterte's current foreign policy towards China. 

Anyways, this purported Aquino government victory handed by the PCA in the Neitherland over China was already totally debunked by no less than by a former Philippines diplomat, Adolfo Q. Paglinawan, former Press Attache of the Philippine Embassy in Washington DC, as nothing but cover-up of the Aquino monumental blunder in the SCS.

*The Ruling of the Permanent Court of Arbitration was “ill-founded” indeed! *

This well crafted, scholarly criticism never quite took off in the circulation for obvious reason, in the Philippine mainstream media are now vilified as the yellow press of the Aquino's political party.

_Here's some excerpt from the article:_

"...China questioned why the case filing was done with the Permanent Court of Arbitration in the Hague, when any and all discussions will necessarily involve sovereignty issues. It has categorically asserted that the* PCA cannot have any jurisdiction over matters of sovereignty.*

*It is not a body under the United Nations. It is a private arbitral venue.* The nearest it is associated with the United Nations is that its facilities are housed in the same building as the International Court of Justice in The Hague, Netherlands, and it enjoys an observer status in the UN General Assembly.

Failing in the three foregoing essential elements of arbitration, and showing China’s incapacity to participate, the rest are therefore moot and academic.

*1.4 They must agree to submit themselves to this third party’s decision.
1.5. They must agree to jointly implement such a decision, or award.
1.6 They must agree to defray all expenses incurred for the services of the arbitration, including the honoraria of the jurors.*

In view of this, pray tell me, how can the PCA ruling be bona fide?
Anything that is not bona fide, is ipso facto, ill-founded.
Contradicting its very definition, how can an arbitration occur with only one party, the petitioner, involved?
Can any debate, from which a wise and legally binding ruling is to be based, occur with only one party involved?

Not only is it unilateral but a dangerous precedent to con China, or any country for that matter into a rule-based corner without due process, forced to compliance under lawless circumstances by an arbiter who made its decisions alone on the basis of what one party had submitted.

Not only does it present a dangerous precedent, but a monumental swindle. Isn’t this what China eventually asserted – that the arbitral ruling was a big gyp because when only the Philippines footed the bill of expenses, in effect the Philippines bought the award?

Worst of all, while the Philippines was busy “buying” an ill-founded arbitral decision by engaging in flawed procedures, China was equally busy altering the facts on the ground occupying, reclaiming and building structures on artificial islands.

_Now, here comes the part where it is not palatable to Philppines yellow media:_

The talking point is etched in the statements promuslgated by Albert del Rosario and his talking heads Associate Justice Antonio Carpio, multiple-losing congressional candidate Roilo Golez, Philippine Star columnists Jarius Bondoc and Alfredo Pascual, former solicitor-general Florin Hilbay, and the desks of The Philippines Daily Inquirer, ABS-CBN and Rappler, and for sometime in the writings of Richard Heydarian and Jay Batongbacal in the academe.

*Given all these facts, don’t they point to conclude that BS Aquino III proxied for the United States in building a case against China not just to shame China before the world but paint it as a rogue state? Didn’t the Philippines find itself validating his signature to the Enhanced Defense Cooperation Agreement with the United States?*

These questions are relevant in evaluating how the BS Aquino administration, under the tutelage of Albert del Rosario, a suspected American cditizen, based its determination of our national interest in the posturing that he allowed in our relations with China, in active disconnection with any bilateral talks.

*Didn’t the former president allow himself to be used, in preparation for the American pivot scheduled for completion in 2020 involving the rebalancing of its military presence to the Asia-Pacific?*

The vehicle used in our previous posturing against China is a novelty in international relations. It is called lawfare, as distinguished from warfare, or its mild equivalent, low-intensity conflict.

*This play becomes even more curious now that Ambassador Rigoberto Tiglao, now a Manila Times columnist, has claimed that the Aquino administration only proceeded with the filing of the PCA award to cover up the loss of Scarborough Shoal as a territory of the Philippines.*
--------------------------------------------------

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## TaiShang

*China’s South Sea Fleet Gets Its Own Marine Rescue Squadron*
© AFP 2017/ STR
ASIA & PACIFIC
03:24 22.10.2017

China’s South Sea Fleet has set up its first marine salvage and rescue squadron aimed to improve the People's Liberation Army (PLA) Navy’s fighting capabilities as the service seeks to beef up its presence in the region’s disputed waters.

According to the PLA website, a submarine rescue unit was established as part of China's recent round of military reform to support a broader range of operations in the country's navy, step up the service's combat readiness, and deploy more submarines to the hotly-contested region.





© REUTERS/ CHINA DAILY
Xi Jinping Declares Era of 'National Rejuvenation' in China

Previously, the North China Sea Fleet's unit, established in 2011 and designed to effectively respond to submarine-related emergencies by deploying rescue ships, life-saving equipment and divers, was the only one of its kind.* A similar unit in the South China Sea, where China's most advanced nuclear submarines are deployed, has become necessary with the expansion of the PLA Navy's mission area.*

"The army has to be prepared for battle," Ke Hehai, the political commissar of the unit, was quoted as saying by the PLA Daily on Thursday.

Ni Lexiong, a Shanghai-based military affairs commentator, suggested that it was almost impossible for just one rescue team to provide a prompt and efficient response.

*"It is a sign that the fleet is getting itself more ready for battle," Ni said. "Rescue squadrons are crucial in war."*

The South Sea Fleet plays a key role in asserting China's territorial claim over the disputed waters, where many Southeast Asian nations also claim sovereignty.

https://sputniknews.com/asia/201710221058440309-china-south-sea-fleet-rescue-unit/

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## samsara

Kulas Mata said:


> Only the local mainstream media are keeping Carpio's warmongering alive on the national consciousness of the Philippines, together with Rep. Alejano, who's a former failed military mutineer himself during the time of former Pres. Arroyo (coincidentally her administration had a good rapport with China too). Both men are an avid critics of Duterte's current foreign policy towards China.
> 
> Anyways, this purported Aquino government victory handed by the PCA in the Neitherland over China was already totally debunked by no less than by a former Philippines diplomat, Adolfo Q. Paglinawan, former Press Attache of the Philippine Embassy in Washington DC, as nothing but cover-up of the Aquino monumental blunder in the SCS.
> 
> *The Ruling of the Permanent Court of Arbitration was “ill-founded” indeed! *
> 
> This well crafted, scholarly criticism never quite took off in the circulation for obvious reason, in the Philippine mainstream media are now vilified as the yellow press of the Aquino's political party.
> 
> _Here's some excerpt from the article:_
> 
> "...China questioned why the case filing was done with the Permanent Court of Arbitration in the Hague, when any and all discussions will necessarily involve sovereignty issues. It has categorically asserted that the* PCA cannot have any jurisdiction over matters of sovereignty.*
> 
> *It is not a body under the United Nations. It is a private arbitral venue.* The nearest it is associated with the United Nations is that its facilities are housed in the same building as the International Court of Justice in The Hague, Netherlands, and it enjoys an observer status in the UN General Assembly.
> 
> Failing in the three foregoing essential elements of arbitration, and showing China’s incapacity to participate, the rest are therefore moot and academic.
> 
> *1.4 They must agree to submit themselves to this third party’s decision.
> 1.5. They must agree to jointly implement such a decision, or award.
> 1.6 They must agree to defray all expenses incurred for the services of the arbitration, including the honoraria of the jurors.*
> 
> In view of this, pray tell me, how can the PCA ruling be bona fide?
> Anything that is not bona fide, is ipso facto, ill-founded.
> Contradicting its very definition, how can an arbitration occur with only one party, the petitioner, involved?
> Can any debate, from which a wise and legally binding ruling is to be based, occur with only one party involved?
> 
> Not only is it unilateral but a dangerous precedent to con China, or any country for that matter into a rule-based corner without due process, forced to compliance under lawless circumstances by an arbiter who made its decisions alone on the basis of what one party had submitted.
> 
> Not only does it present a dangerous precedent, but a monumental swindle. Isn’t this what China eventually asserted – that the arbitral ruling was a big gyp because when only the Philippines footed the bill of expenses, in effect the Philippines bought the award?
> 
> Worst of all, while the Philippines was busy “buying” an ill-founded arbitral decision by engaging in flawed procedures, China was equally busy altering the facts on the ground occupying, reclaiming and building structures on artificial islands.
> 
> _Now, here comes the part where it is not palatable to Philppines yellow media:_
> 
> The talking point is etched in the statements promuslgated by Albert del Rosario and his talking heads Associate Justice Antonio Carpio, multiple-losing congressional candidate Roilo Golez, Philippine Star columnists Jarius Bondoc and Alfredo Pascual, former solicitor-general Florin Hilbay, and the desks of The Philippines Daily Inquirer, ABS-CBN and Rappler, and for sometime in the writings of Richard Heydarian and Jay Batongbacal in the academe.
> 
> *Given all these facts, don’t they point to conclude that BS Aquino III proxied for the United States in building a case against China not just to shame China before the world but paint it as a rogue state? Didn’t the Philippines find itself validating his signature to the Enhanced Defense Cooperation Agreement with the United States?*
> 
> These questions are relevant in evaluating how the BS Aquino administration, under the tutelage of Albert del Rosario, a suspected American cditizen, based its determination of our national interest in the posturing that he allowed in our relations with China, in active disconnection with any bilateral talks.
> 
> *Didn’t the former president allow himself to be used, in preparation for the American pivot scheduled for completion in 2020 involving the rebalancing of its military presence to the Asia-Pacific?*
> 
> The vehicle used in our previous posturing against China is a novelty in international relations. It is called lawfare, as distinguished from warfare, or its mild equivalent, low-intensity conflict.
> 
> *This play becomes even more curious now that Ambassador Rigoberto Tiglao, now a Manila Times columnist, has claimed that the Aquino administration only proceeded with the filing of the PCA award to cover up the loss of Scarborough Shoal as a territory of the Philippines.*
> --------------------------------------------------



The related article:

*The Ruling of the Permanent Court of Arbitration was “ill-founded” indeed! – The Independent Asian Review*

*By Adolfo Q. Paglinawan, August 17, 2017*
*



*

https://independentreviewblog.wordp...-court-of-arbitration-was-ill-founded-indeed/

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## samsara

*The Triangle of Defence in the middle of the*
* South China Sea*

Below rough map gives a good clue why the South China Sea is so strategic for China, serving as its very first line of defence in safeguarding the mainland of China, incl. the Yulin Naval Base in Hainan Island. I am a bit surprised when I pay close attention at the islands forming the triangular shape in the middle of the sea, propped by Yongxing Island as the center of support, it puts in place a respectable defence, even robust, at minimum as the front line protectors.






~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

*Thucydides Trap* - *Brett Wessley*, who is an officer in the U.S. Navy, currently assigned to U.S. Pacific Command, interviewed the famous American author, *Professor Graham Allison*:

I was going to ask you about the case of *the South China Sea*, because you have to watch it every day. I was in Beijing two weeks ago with a lot of people talking about Thucydides’s Trap, and some people—Chinese—believe the contest in the South China Sea is basically over...and that they won. Now, has anyone said that at U.S. Pacific Command? Would they be considered nuts, or is that at least a plausible idea?

*I think that would be news to us, but I’m interested in hearing why the Chinese think it’s over.*

There was an Australian there, a former Australian foreign minister, and he said he thought it was over too. He basically said the Chinese have achieved their objective: all the governments in the region now ask first what will China do, and look first to China rather than the U.S. over the contest in the area. I said, “Geez, I didn’t think that was the prevailing American view,” and he said Americans are often slow to wake up. So, I just started looking at it again. If you think of the economic balance of power between China and the U.S. as a seesaw, and that's why I have that graphic in my book, that basically shows the seesaw is tilting and our feet are now lifting off the ground. That is the reality. That reality is even more extreme in the case of relations between China and every one of its Asian neighbors. So China is important to every Asian neighbor as the market and the source of investments, as the party that can squeeze them if it decides to squeeze them. Whether it's the Philippines—or now even Singapore—feeling this, it is a fact of life for them every day.

https://thestrategybridge.org/the-bridge/2017/10/30/reviewing-destined-for-war-an-interview-with-graham-allison

。。。

Reactions: Positive Rating Positive Rating:
1 | Like Like:
9


----------



## Viva_Viet

samsara said:


> There was an Australian there, a former Australian foreign minister, and he said he thought it was over too. He basically said the Chinese have achieved their objective:* all the governments in the region now ask first what will China do*, and look first to China rather than the U.S. over the contest in the area. I said, “Geez, I didn’t think that was the prevailing American view,” and he said Americans are often slow to wake up. So, I just started looking at it again. If you think of the economic balance of power between China and the U.S. as a seesaw, and that's why I have that graphic in my book, that basically shows the seesaw is tilting and our feet are now lifting off the ground. That is the reality. That reality is even more extreme in the case of relations between China and every one of its Asian neighbors. So China is important to every Asian neighbor as the market and the source of investments, as the party that can squeeze them if it decides to squeeze them. Whether it's the Philippines—or now even Singapore—feeling this, it is a fact of life for them every day.
> 
> https://thestrategybridge.org/the-bridge/2017/10/30/reviewing-destined-for-war-an-interview-with-graham-allison
> 
> 。。。


Why all the governments in the region now ask first what will China do ?? Cos unlike other big nations (Russia, India) CN willing to bow down to US just to gain support to bully small nation in the region

CN alone is nothing, its army is poorly trained and weak. But if US send support to CN like in 1979 VN-CN war , then VN have to be careful in this case

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## samsara

Viva_Viet said:


> Why all the governments in the region now ask first what will China do ?? Cos unlike other big nations (Russia, India) CN willing to bow down to US just to gain support to bully small nation in the region
> 
> CN alone is nothing, its army is poorly trained and weak. But if US send support to CN like in 1979 VN-CN war , then VN have to be careful in this case


Oops! Your suggestion even has not come into my thought at the slightest... and seeing that you've been around here, at PDF, for over six years, it seems that you have not learned anything of substance at this forum.

You even ignore the thoughts of Prof. Graham Allison right before your eyes at all. I'm simply speechless.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Viva_Viet

samsara said:


> Oops! Your suggestion even has not come into my thought at the slightest... and seeing that you've been around here, at PDF, for over six years, it seems that you have not learned anything of substance at this forum.
> 
> You even ignore the thoughts of Prof. Graham Allison right before your eyes at all. I'm simply speechless.


Everyone know that VN is always be the last winner in all war against mighty enemies (Mongol empire, France,US, CN ), so what we said based on what we faced in history and it help VNese to keep winning in any incoming war .

Who is Graham Allison ?? a loser in VN war ?? he'd better stop smoking while writing 5cent article.


----------



## UMNOPutra

*Finally ...PH has sold its sovereignty to China ...
*


> *Philippines removes hut on contested sandbar after China complain *
> 
> MANILA - President Rodrigo Duterte ordered the withdrawal of a structure put up on a sandbar near an island the Philippines occupies in the South China Sea, after China complained about it.
> 
> Defence Secretary Delfin Lorenzana told reporters on the sidelines of a forum on the upcoming Asean summit on Wednesday (Nov 8) *that Philippine troops had in August built a hut on the sandbar, 4km off Thitu island, for use as a shelter for Filipino fishermen*.
> 
> Soon after, Chinese patrol boats approached the sandbar and demanded that the hut be removed.
> 
> More : http://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se-...august-defence


----------



## samsara

*Xi: China-Philippines ties standing on a new starting point*

CGTN -



2771 km to Beijing
2017-11-11 22:43 GMT+8, Updated 2017-11-12 08:16 GMT+8






*China-Philippines ties are at a new starting point, said Chinese President Xi Jinping on Saturday, adding that China will continue to work with ASEAN countries to safeguard peace and development in the South China Sea region.*

Xi made the remarks when he met with Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte on the sidelines of the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) Economic Leaders' Meeting in Da Nang, Vietnam.

Xi said that since Duterte's visit to China in October last year, bilateral ties have opened a new chapter.

With the two countries' cooperation enhanced, China-Philippines relations have seen healthy and stable development, bringing tangible benefits to both peoples and contributing to the region's peace and stability, he added.





_Chinese President Xi Jinping meets with Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte in Da Nang, Vietnam, Nov. 11, 2017. /Xinhua Photo‍_

Xi said good-neighborliness and friendliness is the right direction for China-Philippines relations, and China, together with the Philippines, is willing to continue considering the *bilateral ties* from a *strategic and long-term perspective*, enhancing mutual political trust, deepening cooperation and bringing more benefits to the two peoples.

Xi said the 19th National Congress of the Communist Party of China (CPC) concluded last month set the goal for China for a period in the future.

*China's development needs an environment of lasting peace and stability, he added, noting that China will continue peaceful development, as well as opening up and win-win cooperation.*

*China will treat neighboring countries with amity, sincerity, mutual benefit and inclusiveness, pushing forward the building of a community with a shared future for mankind, said the Chinese president.*

He said relations between the two countries stand on a new starting point, adding that they should enhance high-level exchanges, so as to ensure the development of bilateral relations on a right track.

He noted the two sides should align the Belt and Road Initiative with the Philippines' development strategy, and deepen practical cooperation in infrastructure, agriculture, investment and other areas.





_Chinese President Xi Jinping (R) meets with Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte, who is here for the Belt and Road Forum (BRF) for International Cooperation, at the Great Hall of the People in Beijing, capital of China, May 15, 2017. /Xinhua Photo_

*Xi said China is willing to offer assistance to the Philippines on poverty reduction, and continue support for the Philippine government's effort to safeguard national security.*

*Xi also said China is to work with ASEAN countries to maintain peace and stability, as well as development and prosperity in the South China Sea region.*

Noting the great importance of bilateral ties, Duterte said the Philippines regards China as a sincere friend and is grateful for China's assistance on economy, anti-terrorism and maintaining stability.

*He said the Philippines is willing to properly handle maritime issues through bilateral channels in accordance with consensus reached by the two sides.*

The current overseas trip is Xi's first after the 19th CPC National Congress. After attending the APEC meeting in Da Nang, he will then *pay state visits to Vietnam and Laos* from Sunday to Tuesday.

_APEC is a regional economic forum established in 1989 to leverage the growing interdependence of the Asia-Pacific. _This year's APEC Economic Leaders' Week is held under the theme of "Creating New Dynamism, Fostering a Shared Future."






https://news.cgtn.com/news/31677a4d35597a6333566d54/share_p.html

。。。

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## UMNOPutra

China - All there are ours..





So .. what will happen with Indonesia's Natuna oil and gas project ?

------

*Will China Scuttle ExxonMobil’s South China Sea Gas Project With Vietnam?*

A planned investment in the Blue Whale field could make the U.S. energy giant the next target of Chinese threats.

https://thediplomat.com/2017/11/will...-with-vietnam/


----------



## samsara

UMNOPutra said:


> China - All there are ours..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So .. what will happen with Indonesia's Natuna oil and gas project ?
> 
> ------
> 
> *Will China Scuttle ExxonMobil’s South China Sea Gas Project With Vietnam?*
> 
> A planned investment in the Blue Whale field could make the U.S. energy giant the next target of Chinese threats.
> 
> https://thediplomat.com/2017/11/will...-with-vietnam/



WHY did you INSINUATE that there will be any problem with Indonesia's Natuna oil dan gas project? Do you know how long has the Natuna's project been in operation?

And why don't you add the Brunei Darrusalam's oil dan gas project either while being here?

Indeed you may come out with many more fabricated lines if you do try harder... I believe you do have bigger motive as well as imagination seeing most of your posts with regard to the South China Sea.
。。。

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## samsara

Expansion work on Spratly Islands, one of the islands in the Spratly Islands in the South China Sea and controlled by Vietnam, is currently underway.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/931528303705329664





NO news coverage? The main presstitutes just keep the deafening silence! Not okay for China yet okay for the rest? Ha ha ha 
。。。

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## UMNOPutra

samsara said:


> WHY did you INSINUATE that there will be any problem with Indonesia's Natuna oil dan gas project? Do you know how long has the Natuna's project been in operation?
> 
> And why don't you add the Brunei Darrusalam's oil dan gas project either while being here?
> 
> Indeed you may come out with many more fabricated lines if you do try harder... I believe you do have bigger motive as well as imagination seeing most of your posts with regard to the South China Sea.
> 。。。



So.. Do you want to say that all oil and gas projects owned by Brunei dan Malaysia at their ZEE are are also owned by China because of all SCS are efectively controlled by China ?


----------



## samsara

UMNOPutra said:


> So.. Do you want to say that all oil and gas projects owned by Brunei dan Malaysia at their ZEE are are also owned by China because of all SCS are efectively controlled by China ?


DO NOT try to put your words into my mouth.

I asked you earlier how could you insinuate that the Natuna Oil & Gas projects have any problem with China?

You have yet answered that question.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## UMNOPutra

samsara said:


> DO NOT try to put your words into my mouth.
> 
> I asked you earlier how could you insinuate that the Natuna Oil & Gas projects have any problem with China?
> 
> You have yet answered that question.



Hahahaha ... Who are you actually? Are you pro China or Not?


----------



## samsara

PLA Navy will conduct a naval exercise on 21 November near *Chenhang Dao 琛航岛* (Duncan Island), in *Xisha Islands 西沙群岛*, South China Sea.














Via East Pendulum 2017-11-20
。。。

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## samsara

*Chinese bombers H-6K patrol the high sea, the South China Sea.*
*



*




Credits to dafeng cao, East Pendulum, 2017-11-23​。。。

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## samsara

PLA Navy continues the naval exercises in the Xisha Islands 西沙群岛 in the South China Sea, as to verify the operational status of each island there. The next drill will take place on 24 November on the *Jinyin Dao 金银岛* (aka. Money or Treasure Island).













Via East Pendulum 2017-11-24
。。。

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## TaiShang

*Chinese air force patrol South China Sea*
Xinhua, November 23, 2017

The PLA air force recently conducted a combat air patrol in the South China Sea, said a military spokesperson on Thursday.

*A team of various bombers completed the routine patrol,* said spokesman Shen Jinke.

Chinese bombers also conducted training exercises after passing over the *Bashi Channel and Miyako Strait. *The H-6K bombers took off from an inland airport in north China, according to Shen.

The Chinese air force started regular high seas training in 2015.

http://china.org.cn/china/2017-11/23/content_41935758.htm

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## striver44

Kulas Mata said:


> Only the local mainstream media are keeping Carpio's warmongering alive on the national consciousness of the Philippines, together with Rep. Alejano, who's a former failed military mutineer himself during the time of former Pres. Arroyo (coincidentally her administration had a good rapport with China too). Both men are an avid critics of Duterte's current foreign policy towards China.
> 
> Anyways, this purported Aquino government victory handed by the PCA in the Neitherland over China was already totally debunked by no less than by a former Philippines diplomat, Adolfo Q. Paglinawan, former Press Attache of the Philippine Embassy in Washington DC, as nothing but cover-up of the Aquino monumental blunder in the SCS.
> 
> *The Ruling of the Permanent Court of Arbitration was “ill-founded” indeed! *
> 
> This well crafted, scholarly criticism never quite took off in the circulation for obvious reason, in the Philippine mainstream media are now vilified as the yellow press of the Aquino's political party.
> 
> _Here's some excerpt from the article:_
> 
> "...China questioned why the case filing was done with the Permanent Court of Arbitration in the Hague, when any and all discussions will necessarily involve sovereignty issues. It has categorically asserted that the* PCA cannot have any jurisdiction over matters of sovereignty.*
> 
> *It is not a body under the United Nations. It is a private arbitral venue.* The nearest it is associated with the United Nations is that its facilities are housed in the same building as the International Court of Justice in The Hague, Netherlands, and it enjoys an observer status in the UN General Assembly.
> 
> Failing in the three foregoing essential elements of arbitration, and showing China’s incapacity to participate, the rest are therefore moot and academic.
> 
> *1.4 They must agree to submit themselves to this third party’s decision.
> 1.5. They must agree to jointly implement such a decision, or award.
> 1.6 They must agree to defray all expenses incurred for the services of the arbitration, including the honoraria of the jurors.*
> 
> In view of this, pray tell me, how can the PCA ruling be bona fide?
> Anything that is not bona fide, is ipso facto, ill-founded.
> Contradicting its very definition, how can an arbitration occur with only one party, the petitioner, involved?
> Can any debate, from which a wise and legally binding ruling is to be based, occur with only one party involved?
> 
> Not only is it unilateral but a dangerous precedent to con China, or any country for that matter into a rule-based corner without due process, forced to compliance under lawless circumstances by an arbiter who made its decisions alone on the basis of what one party had submitted.
> 
> Not only does it present a dangerous precedent, but a monumental swindle. Isn’t this what China eventually asserted – that the arbitral ruling was a big gyp because when only the Philippines footed the bill of expenses, in effect the Philippines bought the award?
> 
> Worst of all, while the Philippines was busy “buying” an ill-founded arbitral decision by engaging in flawed procedures, China was equally busy altering the facts on the ground occupying, reclaiming and building structures on artificial islands.
> 
> _Now, here comes the part where it is not palatable to Philppines yellow media:_
> 
> The talking point is etched in the statements promuslgated by Albert del Rosario and his talking heads Associate Justice Antonio Carpio, multiple-losing congressional candidate Roilo Golez, Philippine Star columnists Jarius Bondoc and Alfredo Pascual, former solicitor-general Florin Hilbay, and the desks of The Philippines Daily Inquirer, ABS-CBN and Rappler, and for sometime in the writings of Richard Heydarian and Jay Batongbacal in the academe.
> 
> *Given all these facts, don’t they point to conclude that BS Aquino III proxied for the United States in building a case against China not just to shame China before the world but paint it as a rogue state? Didn’t the Philippines find itself validating his signature to the Enhanced Defense Cooperation Agreement with the United States?*
> 
> These questions are relevant in evaluating how the BS Aquino administration, under the tutelage of Albert del Rosario, a suspected American cditizen, based its determination of our national interest in the posturing that he allowed in our relations with China, in active disconnection with any bilateral talks.
> 
> *Didn’t the former president allow himself to be used, in preparation for the American pivot scheduled for completion in 2020 involving the rebalancing of its military presence to the Asia-Pacific?*
> 
> The vehicle used in our previous posturing against China is a novelty in international relations. It is called lawfare, as distinguished from warfare, or its mild equivalent, low-intensity conflict.
> 
> *This play becomes even more curious now that Ambassador Rigoberto Tiglao, now a Manila Times columnist, has claimed that the Aquino administration only proceeded with the filing of the PCA award to cover up the loss of Scarborough Shoal as a territory of the Philippines.*
> --------------------------------------------------


Mehhhh


----------



## samsara

striver44 said:


> Mehhhh


You had _*SPOILED this thread*_ by quoting the long posting, and only added *the meaningless remark "Mehhhh" *

Please... if You have nothing meaningful to add here then please do not squeeze yourself in. I detest a thread flashes itself due to some really trivial, random post.  Next time I'll call in Mod's attention.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

*The Chinese Coast Guard's MA-60H registered B-5002 starts patrol in the South China Sea.*
(East Pendulum 1:55 AM - 26 Nov 2017)













。。。

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## TaiShang

*China showcases jet fighters at South China Sea island*

By Zhang Hui Source:Global Times Published: 2017/11/30 22:53:40

The official Chinese media's broadcast of *Chinese J-11B fighters entering a sealed hangar in the Xisha Islands showcases China's improving air and sea control of the South China Sea*, a Chinese military expert said. 

Footage aired by China Central Television (CCTV) on Wednesday *for the first time confirmed deployment of the fighter aircraft in a hangar on Yongxing Island. *

The footage was broadcast in a CCTV report on People's Liberation Army Air Force drills to improve its nautical combat capability. 

Yongxing Island, the largest of the Xisha Islands in the South China Sea, is also the seat of the Sansha city government of South China's Hainan Province. 

*With a 3-kilometer runway, the airport in Yongxing Island is an important dual-use airport in the South China Sea area, the CCTV report said. *

*The thermostabilized hangar boosts the jet fighters' durability and resistance to the island's humidity and high temperatures. *

More importantly,* the special hangar helps to realize regular deployment of fighter jets in the Xisha Islands,* TV commentator Song Zhongping told the Global Times on Thursday. 

*"Other islands in China could also use such aircraft hangars and China's overall control of air and sea in the South China Sea would be greatly improved as well,"* Song said.

China will enhance its capability to safeguard its legal rights in the South China Sea through military and legal enforcement channels, Song noted. "Legal enforcement channel" means Chinese fighters intercepting foreign aircraft flying over the South China Sea, he said.

Two Chinese J-10 fighter jets intercepted a US Navy surveillance aircraft over the South China Sea in May, CNN news website reported. 

China's Ministry of National Defense later said that* the fighters were sent to identify the US warship, warn and expel it.*

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1078125.shtml

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## samsara

TaiShang said:


> *China showcases jet fighters at South China Sea island*
> 
> By Zhang Hui Source:Global Times Published: 2017/11/30 22:53:40
> 
> The official Chinese media's broadcast of *Chinese J-11B fighters entering a sealed hangar in the Xisha Islands showcases China's improving air and sea control of the South China Sea*, a Chinese military expert said.
> 
> Footage aired by China Central Television (CCTV) on Wednesday *for the first time confirmed deployment of the fighter aircraft in a hangar on Yongxing Island. *
> 
> The footage was broadcast in a CCTV report on People's Liberation Army Air Force drills to improve its nautical combat capability.
> 
> Yongxing Island, the largest of the Xisha Islands in the South China Sea, is also the seat of the Sansha city government of South China's Hainan Province.
> 
> *With a 3-kilometer runway, the airport in Yongxing Island is an important dual-use airport in the South China Sea area, the CCTV report said. *
> 
> *The thermostabilized hangar boosts the jet fighters' durability and resistance to the island's humidity and high temperatures. *
> 
> More importantly,* the special hangar helps to realize regular deployment of fighter jets in the Xisha Islands,* TV commentator Song Zhongping told the Global Times on Thursday.
> 
> *"Other islands in China could also use such aircraft hangars and China's overall control of air and sea in the South China Sea would be greatly improved as well,"* Song said.
> 
> China will enhance its capability to safeguard its legal rights in the South China Sea through military and legal enforcement channels, Song noted. "Legal enforcement channel" means Chinese fighters intercepting foreign aircraft flying over the South China Sea, he said.
> 
> Two Chinese J-10 fighter jets intercepted a US Navy surveillance aircraft over the South China Sea in May, CNN news website reported.
> 
> China's Ministry of National Defense later said that* the fighters were sent to identify the US warship, warn and expel it.*
> 
> http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1078125.shtml



It's noteworthy the detachment being deployed to the Yongxing Island
came from the northeast region of China, about 3,000-kilometer away.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/936425819945107456

PLAAF conducted exercise in the South China Sea lately,
JH-7A escorted by J-11B penetrated air defense unit.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/935859212965564417。。。

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## samsara

TaiShang said:


> *China showcases jet fighters at South China Sea island*
> 
> By Zhang Hui Source:Global Times Published: 2017/11/30 22:53:40
> 
> The official Chinese media's broadcast of *Chinese J-11B fighters entering a sealed hangar in the Xisha Islands showcases China's improving air and sea control of the South China Sea*, a Chinese military expert said.
> 
> Footage aired by China Central Television (CCTV) on Wednesday *for the first time confirmed deployment of the fighter aircraft in a hangar on Yongxing Island. *
> 
> The footage was broadcast in a CCTV report on People's Liberation Army Air Force drills to improve its nautical combat capability.
> 
> Yongxing Island, the largest of the Xisha Islands in the South China Sea, is also the seat of the Sansha city government of South China's Hainan Province.
> 
> *With a 3-kilometer runway, the airport in Yongxing Island is an important dual-use airport in the South China Sea area, the CCTV report said. *
> 
> *The thermostabilized hangar boosts the jet fighters' durability and resistance to the island's humidity and high temperatures. *
> 
> More importantly,* the special hangar helps to realize regular deployment of fighter jets in the Xisha Islands,* TV commentator Song Zhongping told the Global Times on Thursday.
> 
> *"Other islands in China could also use such aircraft hangars and China's overall control of air and sea in the South China Sea would be greatly improved as well,"* Song said.
> 
> China will enhance its capability to safeguard its legal rights in the South China Sea through military and legal enforcement channels, Song noted. "Legal enforcement channel" means Chinese fighters intercepting foreign aircraft flying over the South China Sea, he said.
> 
> Two Chinese J-10 fighter jets intercepted a US Navy surveillance aircraft over the South China Sea in May, CNN news website reported.
> 
> China's Ministry of National Defense later said that* the fighters were sent to identify the US warship, warn and expel it.*
> 
> http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1078125.shtml


The article was reposted at this blog, and furnished with many beautiful pictures about that island. I just posted few pics here for illustration only. Please visit the blog to see more.

*J-11B at Yongxing Island, South China Sea (30 NOV)*
http://china-defense.blogspot.com/2017/11/j-11b-at-yongxing-island-south-china-sea.html

















。。。

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## TaiShang

samsara said:


> The article was reposted at this blog, and furnished with many beautiful pictures about that island. I just posted few pics here for illustration only. Please visit the website to see more.
> 
> *J-11B at Yongxing Island, South China Sea (30 NOV)*
> http://china-defense.blogspot.com/2017/11/j-11b-at-yongxing-island-south-china-sea.html
> 
> View attachment 440215
> 
> View attachment 440218
> 
> View attachment 440222
> 
> View attachment 440223
> 
> 。。。



Under the UNCLOS, this could be considered a full-fledged island, given that its "sustaining life" features have been reinforced considerably.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## samsara

The 4th Division of Y-9 conducted airdrop training in the South China Sea after flying *roughly 1,500 miles or 2,414 kilometers to the Yongshu Island 永暑岛 (aka. Fiery Cross Reef).*

Shaanxi Y-9（运-9 [yùn] means transport）is a medium-sized, medium-range transport aircraft produced by Shaanxi Aircraft Company in the northwestern China.

























*Via dafeng cao‏ @xinfengcao 2017-12-02*

Read the related article at below:

_Combat ready: Chinese air force puts new Y-9 transport planes through paces in South China Sea drill | South China Morning Post (02 Dec)_

_The People’s Liberation Army Air Force announced on its social media account on Saturday that a fleet of the aircraft from the *Western Theatre Command* flew thousands of kilometres to simulate an airdrop over an island in the contested waters before returning the same day._

_Henry K. from East Pendulum said that flight was made from Sichuan to Nansha Islands._

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/dipl...ady-plas-new-y-9-transport-planes-put-through
。。。

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## TaiShang

samsara said:


> The 4th Division of Y-9 conducted airdrop training in the South China Sea after flying *roughly 1,500 miles or 2,414 kilometers to the Yongshu Island 永暑岛 (aka. Fiery Cross Reef).*
> 
> Shaanxi Y-9（运-9 [yùn] means transport）is a medium-sized, medium-range transport aircraft produced by Shaanxi Aircraft Company in the northwestern China.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Via dafeng cao‏ @xinfengcao 2017-12-02*
> 
> Read the related article at below:
> 
> _Combat ready: Chinese air force puts new Y-9 transport planes through paces in South China Sea drill | South China Morning Post (02 Dec)_
> 
> _The People’s Liberation Army Air Force announced on its social media account on Saturday that a fleet of the aircraft from the *Western Theatre Command* flew thousands of kilometres to simulate an airdrop over an island in the contested waters before returning the same day._
> 
> _Henry K. from East Pendulum said that flight was made from Sichuan to Nansha Islands._
> 
> http://www.scmp.com/news/china/dipl...ady-plas-new-y-9-transport-planes-put-through
> 。。。



*Yun-9 ‘ready for combat’ after training in S.China Sea*
(Global Times) 08:14, December 04, 2017

*Transport aircraft completes training in S.China Sea*

The domestic-made medium-sized military transport aircraft Yun-9 is ready for combat mission, which will boost China's effort in safeguarding maritime rights, military experts said on Sunday after the aircraft completed exercises in the South China Sea.

*The Yun-9 is now able to undertake combat missions after a fleet of the transport aircraft finished training in the South China Sea*, Chinese People's Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) announced on Saturday on its official WeChat account.

It was the first long-range maritime exercise of the medium-sized transport aircraft, the PLAAF said.

*The PLAAF didn't say on which date that the training was carried out, or the number of aircraft involved.*

The Yun-9 completed its air-drop missions without assistance from ground control and the crew prepared procedures to cope with any emergency, Liu Bao, a PLA officer said, according to the PLAAF post.

"As the backbone transport aircraft of the PLA, t*he Yun-9's combat readiness means China has the ability to ensure military supplies reach offshore and even open seas*," Wang Ya'nan, chief editor of Aerospace Knowledge magazine, told the Global Times on Sunday.

The Yun-9 will support China's mission to safeguard oceanic sovereignty and security, Wang said, adding maritime rights of the South China Sea always face challenges.

The aircraft, with more advanced features than its predecessor the Yun-8, should be the best-equipped transport aircraft in the PLA, said Wang.* It can also be produced in greater number than the large-size transport aircraft the Yun-20*, Wang explained.

*The Yun-9 costs less than the larger Yun-20 transport aircraft and is more adaptable to airports, and is able to supply weapons, personnel and goods over medium-distances*, another military expert told the Global Times on condition of anonymity on Sunday.

The training session demonstrated that the Yun-9 is reliable to finish its transportation missions. The *Yun-9 can land on small islands if necessary*, the expert said.

The Y-9 transport aircraft is manufactured by Shaanxi Aircraft Corporation, a company affiliated with Aviation Industry Corporation of China. The aircraft can carry a payload of up to 20 tons and 98 soldiers. Its flying range is up 4,200 kilometers, according to Aerospace Knowledge in October.

The transport plane flew from a military airport in Southwest China's Sichuan Province in the morning, landed on an island in the South China Sea around noon and returned the same night.

The medium-lift transport aircraft Y-9 has also undergone several other major training exercises in extreme weather, after it formally entered service with the PLA in 2016.

http://en.people.cn/n3/2017/1204/c90000-9299945.html

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## samsara

TaiShang said:


> *Yun-9 ‘ready for combat’ after training in S.China Sea*
> (Global Times) 08:14, December 04, 2017
> 
> *Transport aircraft completes training in S.China Sea*
> 
> The domestic-made medium-sized military transport aircraft Yun-9 is ready for combat mission, which will boost China's effort in safeguarding maritime rights, military experts said on Sunday after the aircraft completed exercises in the South China Sea.
> 
> *The Yun-9 is now able to undertake combat missions after a fleet of the transport aircraft finished training in the South China Sea*, Chinese People's Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) announced on Saturday on its official WeChat account.
> 
> It was the first long-range maritime exercise of the medium-sized transport aircraft, the PLAAF said.
> 
> *The PLAAF didn't say on which date that the training was carried out, or the number of aircraft involved.*
> 
> The Yun-9 completed its air-drop missions without assistance from ground control and the crew prepared procedures to cope with any emergency, Liu Bao, a PLA officer said, according to the PLAAF post.
> 
> "As the backbone transport aircraft of the PLA, t*he Yun-9's combat readiness means China has the ability to ensure military supplies reach offshore and even open seas*," Wang Ya'nan, chief editor of Aerospace Knowledge magazine, told the Global Times on Sunday.
> 
> The Yun-9 will support China's mission to safeguard oceanic sovereignty and security, Wang said, adding maritime rights of the South China Sea always face challenges.
> 
> The aircraft, with more advanced features than its predecessor the Yun-8, should be the best-equipped transport aircraft in the PLA, said Wang.* It can also be produced in greater number than the large-size transport aircraft the Yun-20*, Wang explained.
> 
> *The Yun-9 costs less than the larger Yun-20 transport aircraft and is more adaptable to airports, and is able to supply weapons, personnel and goods over medium-distances*, another military expert told the Global Times on condition of anonymity on Sunday.
> 
> The training session demonstrated that the Yun-9 is reliable to finish its transportation missions. The *Yun-9 can land on small islands if necessary*, the expert said.
> 
> The Y-9 transport aircraft is manufactured by Shaanxi Aircraft Corporation, a company affiliated with Aviation Industry Corporation of China. The aircraft can carry a payload of up to 20 tons and 98 soldiers. Its flying range is up 4,200 kilometers, according to Aerospace Knowledge in October.
> 
> The transport plane flew from a military airport in Southwest China's Sichuan Province in the morning, landed on an island in the South China Sea around noon and returned the same night.
> 
> The medium-lift transport aircraft Y-9 has also undergone several other major training exercises in extreme weather, after it formally entered service with the PLA in 2016.
> 
> http://en.people.cn/n3/2017/1204/c90000-9299945.html


WATCH the short footage here:

_*China's Y-9 transport aircraft is set for long-distance training over the South China Sea for first time.*_


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/937594081303175168。。。

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## terranMarine

China has complete control over the situation

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## samsara

TaiShang said:


> Under the UNCLOS, this could be considered a *full-fledged island*, given that its "sustaining life" features have been reinforced considerably.


It seems all parties do not question the full-fledged island status of the *Yongxing Island 永兴岛* (aka. the Woody Island). Even an article on the South China Sea (Feb 2016) written by an American blogger ex-military guy won't deny it. The blog has its catchword: "Fernando Betancor's Thoughts On The Present State Of American Affairs"

"_The Chinese deployment was not by itself of tremendous significance. Woody Island is disputed with Vietnam, along with the rest of the Paracel Island chain, but since the Vietnamese Navy has been twice beaten[2] into a cocked hat by the Chinese Navy, the probability of military conflict is low. *Woody Island is also a real island, with all that this implies under maritime law: an exclusion zone to military navigation and a right to control the airspace above it.*_"
。。。

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## terranMarine

Obama or should i say Hillary's Asian Pivot spiraled downwards. TPP thrown into the dustbin. These China containment plans wasted financial means and all energy gone wasted. Vietnam and Japan were amongst the biggest losers especially after that fake court case fired by Aquino. What's hilarious is how some believe China would be in trouble after Trump leading the Office, the truth hurts seeing how Trump keeps talking how great his relationship with Xi is. What's even more hilarious are the six Naval incidents this year in the region, we were all impressed by the level of professionalism displayed by this super power.

Now China keeps constant patrol in SCS and is dominating the area period. Those in South East Asia who want to challenge us shall be met with fire and fury  



samsara said:


> It seems all parties do not question the full-fledged island status of the *Yongxing Island 永兴岛* (aka. the Woody Island). Even an article on the South China Sea (Feb 2016) written by an American blogger ex-military guy won't deny it. The blog has its catchword: "Fernando Betancor's Thoughts On The Present State Of American Affairs"
> 
> "_The Chinese deployment was not by itself of tremendous significance. Woody Island is disputed with Vietnam, along with the rest of the Paracel Island chain, *but since the Vietnamese Navy has been twice beaten[2] into a cocked hat by the Chinese Navy, the probability of military conflict is low.* *Woody Island is also a real island, with all that this implies under maritime law: an exclusion zone to military navigation and a right to control the airspace above it.*_"
> 。。。



Nice article, that's the reality which we have predicted years ago.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## TaiShang

terranMarine said:


> Obama or should i say Hillary's Asian Pivot spiraled downwards. TPP thrown into the dustbin. These China containment plans wasted financial means and all energy gone wasted. Vietnam and Japan were amongst the biggest losers especially after that fake court case fired by Aquino. What's hilarious is how some believe China would be in trouble after Trump leading the Office, the truth hurts seeing how Trump keeps talking how great his relationship with Xi is. What's even more hilarious are the six Naval incidents this year in the region, we were all impressed by the level of professionalism displayed by this super power.



I must admit the Pivot strategy was a dangerous and challenging one. How China has handled and repelled it into a major strategic defeat provides a textbook matter for international relations studies. 

Trump made things more complicated perhaps (given his sudden bursts), but he also made things easier for China to handle. 

Obama-Hillary duo was less complicated but more difficult to handle. 

South China Sea situation is a prime example. Of course, it is not the enemy's deficiencies, but rather, China's supreme strategic mind that has made all the difference, at the end of the day.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## JSCh

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/940387290244771840A China-developed "flying boat" on Monday made a debut at the South China Sea. With a speed of around 160-210 km/h, it can travel from S China's Sanya to Yongxing Island in just a few hours.









​

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## cochine

Last update 10:56 | 23/11/2017
 0


Seminar on East Sea held at European Parliament
_The Gabriel Péri Foundation of France held an international seminar on the East Sea at the European Parliament in Brussels, Belgium, on November 21._


_



_

_An overview of the seminar on East Sea_



The event, the third of its kind held by the foundation, gathered lawyers, professors and diplomats from the UK, Belgium, Germany, Italy, the US, France and Switzerland who delivered speeches on the current geo-politic situation, issues related to relevant international laws and parties’ conduct in the East Sea and several policy suggestions for the EU.

Many said that there are several changes in the East Sea in recent times, including fishing-related policies, environmental protection, and construction which alters the status quo at the sea.

They all agreed that international law must be a foundation for all solutions.

Prof. Erik Franckx from the Free University of Brussels mentioned China’s rejection of the Permanent Court of Arbitration (PCA)’s ruling on the East Sea while many others welcomed the decision.

He said he hopes that parties involved will hold bilateral dialogues to seek a solution accepted by all, regardless of big or small countries.

To restore order in the East Sea, the parties should abide by international law, particularly Article 121 in the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea 1982, he suggested, adding that the PCA ruling is useful to all parties and holds an important role.

Prof. James Borton from the Center for Asian Studies under the US’s University of South Carolina affirmed that the construction of artificial islands has caused a serious impact on the reproduction of fish sources.

His research showed that the number of fish species reduced by half, while reserves fell by 70-95 percent compared with those in the early 1960s.

He proposed combining policy and science to solve existing issues in the East Sea such as the establishment of a “committee” gathering maritime scientists in the region. He also suggested mapping out and defining sea areas in order to protect the eco-system.

Meanwhile, Ambassador Christian Lechervy, Permanent Secretary for the Pacific at the French Foreign Ministry, stressed the need to maintain regular dialogues between the EU and Asia, between the EU and ASEAN, and ASEAN member states, and between the European Parliament and the ASEAN Inter-Parliamentary Assembly.

The stability and economic growth in the East Sea region will contribute to the world’s economic development, which is the reason pushing the EU to help maintain stability at the strategic sea.

The tribunal declared on July 12, 2016, that China’s claim to “historic rights” over waters within its “nine-dash line” is contrary to the UNCLOS. 

It said China has caused permanent and irreparable harm to the coral reef ecosystem at the Spratly (Truong Sa) archipelago, and that it also has no historic title over waters of the South China Sea. 

The Hague Tribunal also finds no legal basis for China to claim historic rights to resources within the nine-dash line, and that China has interfered with traditional Philippine fishing rights at Scarborough Shoal.

However, China completely rejected the PCA’s ruling, and maintained its stance that disputes between countries with overlapped sovereign claims in the East Sea need to be solved bilaterally.

The East Sea provides one of the most important maritime lanes in the globe and benefits many countries. Therefore, maintaining peace, stability, navigation and over flight security, safety, and freedom in the sea area is the top priority. The parties concerned should display their responsibility in abiding by international law, specifically upholding the supremacy of the rule of law in the East Sea. Every extreme reaction or activities defying international law will fuel tensions and complicate the situation.

In recent years, the East Sea issue has attracted much attention from the international community. Although Europe and the East Sea are located over 9,000km apart, the two regions have mutual dependence in terms of economy, politics, and security.

Therefore, escalated tensions in the East Sea may hurt Europe’s interests and threaten stability and prosperity in the world.-_VNA_
http://english.vietnamnet.vn/fms/ma...-on-east-sea-held-at-european-parliament.html

China asked to respect Vietnam’s sovereignty over Hoang Sa
_China’s announcement of launching a live-fire drill in Vietnam’s Hoang Sa (Paracel) Archipelago is a serious violation of Vietnam’s sovereignty over the archipelago, threatening peace and stability in the region and the East Sea, said the Foreign Ministry’s Spokesperson Le Thi Thu Hang on September 5._



_



_

_The Foreign Ministry’s Spokesperson Le Thi Thu Hang._



Vietnam strongly protests this move of China, and strictly demands the country to respect Vietnam’s sovereignty over Hoang Sa Archipelago and not to repeat the action, thus not harming peace and stability in the region and the East Sea, stressed Hang.

“Vietnam once again affirms the resolve to safeguard her sovereignty and legitimate rights and interests in the East Sea through peaceful measures in line with international law, including the United Nations Charter and the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea,” stated the spokesperson.

_VNA_

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Globenim

kecho said:


> Seminar on East Sea held at European Parliament
> _The Gabriel Péri Foundation of France held an international seminar on the East Sea at the European Parliament in Brussels, Belgium, on November 21._



Maybe if Pakistan Defence poster rent one of these seminar rooms, we get our own huffing and puffing dishonest Vietnamese news article about nobodies with opinions in a room rented for 60 Euro.



> Seminar on South China Sea held at European Parliament
> _The Defence Forum of Pakistan held an international seminar on the South China Sea at the European Parliament in Brussels, Belgium, addressing Vietnams destablizing role and harmful behavior in the South China Sea._

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cochine

Last update 15:05 | 29/11/2017
 


Int’l law essential to peace, stability in East Sea: conference
_International law holds an important role in maintaining peace and stability in the East Sea, heard the ninth East Sea International Conference which ended in Ho Chi Minh City on November 28._



_



_

_Delegates discuss at the ninth East Sea International Conference_




At the event, participating scholars agreed that in 2017, the East Sea situation was calm, but there remains risk of disorder and conflict in the waters.

Differences in countries’ standpoints and consciousness of history and developments in the field and the fact that international law is not fully obeyed make disputes in the sea complex.

Along with traditional challenges, the situation is getting more complicated due to the development of issues such as climate change, terrorism, crime at sea, and the exhaustion of natural resources.

Participants affirmed that international law remains an essential foundation to maintain world order for common prosperity, although the law is not completed yet or is interpreted in different ways depending on each country’s interests.

They suggested the countries involved focus on building and reaching a consensus on interpretation to promote peace and cooperation at sea, instead of finding ways to take advantage of legal loopholes.

The countries which have interests in the East Sea like the US, China, Japan, India and Australia, and ASEAN should take bigger roles in the region, while all countries in the region and the world should take responsibility for upholding for international law through the enforcement of tribunals’ rulings, they added.

Adjusting maritime activities towards turning challenges arising from these activities into opportunities for countries to intensify cooperation and boost development was also discussed by the scholars.

They proposed the countries establish mechanisms for cooperation in less sensitive areas such as environmental protection, pirate fighting, and training for law enforcement forces at sea.

In the field of fishing, the countries need to build strategic trust and cooperate to define the season unsuitable for fishing, ban illegal fishing, and be responsible for monitoring their fishing vessels.

Scholars agreed that cooperation in preventing trans-national crime at sea and the enforcement of regulations of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea 1982 (UNCLOS) and the Convention for the Safety of Life at Sea of the International Maritime Organisation play an important role in reducing conflicts at sea.

During the conference, scholars also discussed the future of a Code of Conduct in the East Sea (COC).

They recommended focusing on stipulating principles of not using violence or threatening to use violence, maintaining the status quo and self-restraint, as well as legal foundations for cooperative activities, the lists of activities which are encouraged and not allowed in the East Sea, and codes of conduct for several fields such as fishery, marine environmental protection and maritime safety in accordance with international law and the UNCLOS.

The East Sea is one of the world’s most important shipping lanes and benefits many countries. Therefore, maintaining peace, stability, navigation and over flight securit and freedom in the sea is the top priority. 

The parties concerned should display responsibility in abiding by international law in the East Sea. Every extreme reaction or activities defying international law will fuel tensions and complicate the situation.

In recent years, the East Sea issue has attracted much attention from the international community.

The ninth East Sea International Conference took place in Ho Chi Minh City on November 27-28, with seven working sessions focusing on the theme “Cooperation for Regional Security and Development”.

The event was part of efforts to contribute to boost international cooperation for peace and stability in the East Sea.-_VNA_

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## samsara

Globenim said:


> Maybe if Pakistan Defence poster rent one of these seminar rooms, we get our own huffing and puffing dishonest Vietnamese news article about nobodies with opinions in a room rented for 60 Euro.


No problem those EU folks can hold thousands of similar fun gathering among them thousands of miles away from the Asia Continent discussing the fate of their former colonies in a nice nostagia....

I can care less what the European heads do say nowadays.... moreover they need to solve first the enormous MENA migrants within their lands and another million waiting eagerly to cross the borders entering the European Continent upon the slightest opportunity... they're blessed with humanity problems to solve in decades to come... and as always *"Money talks, bullsh1t walks."*

_and WHY? Just read on following..._

*"While you were sleeping, China built facilities covering 290,000 square meters of the Spratlys and Paracels this year, incl. major radar & SIGINT capabilities"*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/941386417363738624
The author was silent when pointed out at following fact 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/941496324943261696
A recent update, look like more an annual recapitulation before departing from the dynamic year of the 2017 from a US think-tank CSIS AMTI. Great that some folks are well funded to track the development in the South China Sea so we all the poor folks here, lacking of such ample resources may have some peeks into the not-easy-to-track progresses made around the many islands/islets/atolls/etc... thank you, thank you  

_Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative (AMTI) was conceived of and designed by Center for Strategic & International Studies (CSIS). AMTI is made possible by Asia Program internal funding as well as a start-up grant from *the Brzezinski Institute on Geostrategy*._

For more information about AMTI, please contact the Initiative Director, Gregory Poling, at AMTI@csis.org.

Gregory Poling
The Initiative Director





Gregory B. Poling is director of the Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative and a fellow with the Southeast Asia Program at CSIS. He oversees research on U.S. foreign policy in the Asia Pacific, with a particular focus on the maritime domain and the countries of Southeast Asia. His research interests include the South China Sea disputes, democratization in Southeast Asia, and Asian multilateralism.


*A CONSTRUCTIVE YEAR FOR CHINESE BASE BUILDING*

PUBLISHED: DECEMBER 14, 2017 - Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative (AMTI)

International attention has shifted away from the slow-moving crisis in the South China Sea over the course of 2017, but the situation on the water has not remained static. While pursuing diplomatic outreach toward its Southeast Asian neighbors, Beijing continued substantial construction activities on its dual-use outposts in the Spratly and Paracel Islands. China completed the dredging and landfilling operations to create its seven new islands in the Spratlys by early 2016, and seems to have halted such operations to expand islets in the Paracels by mid-2017. But Beijing remains committed to advancing the next phase of its build-up—construction of the infrastructure necessary for fully-functioning air and naval bases on the larger outposts.

AMTI has identified all the permanent facilities on which China completed or began work since the start of the year. These include buildings ranging from underground storage areas and administrative buildings to large radar and sensor arrays. These facilities account for about 72 acres, or 290,000 square meters, of new real estate at Fiery Cross, Subi, and Mischief Reefs in the Spratlys, and North, Tree, and Triton Islands in the Paracels. This does not include temporary structures like storage containers or cement plants, or work other than construction, such as the spreading of soil and planting of grass at the new outposts.

Fiery Cross Reef




Fiery Cross saw the most construction over the course of 2017, with work on buildings covering 27 acres, or about 110,000 square meters. This counts work previously documented by AMTI, including completion of the larger hangars alongside the airstrip, work on large underground structures at the south of the island likely intended to house munitions or other essential materiel, a large communications/sensor array at the northeast end of the island, various radar/communications facilities spread around the islet, and hardened shelters for missile platforms at the south end.




The large underground tunnels AMTI identified earlier this year as likely being for ammunition and other storage have been completed and entirely buried. They join other underground structures previously built on the island, which include water and fuel storage.




In addition to the work previously identified at Fiery Cross, in the last several months China has constructed what appears to be a high frequency radar array at the north end of the island. It consists of a field of upright poles, similar to those erected at Cuarteron Reef in 2015. This high-frequency radar is situated next to the large communications/sensor array completed earlier in the year (the field of radomes in the image below).






Subi Reef




Subi Reef also saw considerable building activity in 2017, with work on buildings covering about 24 acres, or 95,000 square meters. This included buried storage facilities identical to those at Fiery Cross, as well as previously-identified hangars, missile shelters, radar/communications facilities, and a high-frequency “elephant cage” antenna array for signals intelligence at the southwest end of the island.




Like at Fiery Cross, the new storage tunnels at Subi were completed and covered over in the last few months. They join other buried structures on the islet, including large storage facilities to the north.




China is poised to substantially boost its radar and signals intelligence capabilities at Subi Reef. Since mid-year, it has built what looks like a second “elephant cage” less than 500 meters west of the first, as well as an array of radomes on the southern end of the outpost that appears similar to, if smaller than, the one on Fiery Cross Reef.









Mischief Reef




This year construction was undertaken on buildings covering 17 acres, or 68,500 square meters, of Mischief Reef. Like at Fiery Cross and Subi, this included underground storage for ammunition and other materiel, the completion of hangars and missile shelters, and new radar and communications arrays.




The new storage tunnels at Mischief were completed over the last several months and have been buried, joining previously-built underground structures to the north.




In addition to previously-identified structures, China has started work on a new radar/communications array on the north side of the outpost.






China has continued construction, though on a smaller scale, at its bases in the Paracel Islands. The most significant of this work in 2017 was at North, Tree, and Triton Islands.



Tree Island




Like North Island, dredging and reclamation work at Tree Island continued as late as mid-2017. In total, China built facilities covering about 1.7 acres, or 6,800 square meters, of the island. These included a new helipad next to the harbor and solar arrays and a pair of wind turbines on the north shore of the island.



North Island




China had earlier tried to connect North Island to neighboring Middle Island, but gave up the project after the land bridge it created was washed out by a storm in October 2016. Earlier this year, it built a retaining wall around the remaining reclaimed land at the southern end of North Island and built a large administrative building on the feature.



Triton Island




Triton Island saw completion of a few buildings this year, including two large radar towers, which are especially important given that Triton is the southwestern-most of the Paracels and the waters around it have been the site of several recent incidents between China and Vietnam, as well as multiple U.S. freedom of navigation operations.



Woody Island

Woody Island is China’s military and administrative headquarters in the South China Sea. Developments at Woody are usually a precursor to those at Fiery Cross, Subi, and Mischief in the Spratlys. There was no substantial new construction at the island this year, but it did see two first-time air deployments that hint at things to come at the three Spratly Island airbases farther south.

First, at the end of October, the Chinese military released images showing People’s Liberation Army Air Force J-11B fighters deployed to Woody Island for exercises. This was the first confirmed deployment of J-11s to Woody. Previous deployments to the island involved the less-advanced People’s Liberation Army Navy J-10, which is what AMTI has used as a basis—perhaps too conservatively—to estimate Chinese power projection capabilities from its South China Sea bases.







Then on November 15, AMTI spotted several large planes that appear to be Y-8 transport aircraft, which in certain configurations are capable of electronic intelligence gathering. AMTI earlier noted that the larger hangars built at each of the Spratly airbases could accommodate Y-8s, suggesting their presence at Woody could be a sign of things to come.

https://amti.csis.org/constructive-year-chinese-building/
。。。

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## samsara

FERNANDO BETANCOR'S THOUGHTS ON THE PRESENT STATE OF AMERICAN AFFAIRS

*From Island Building to Island Hopping: Is China’s South China Sea Strategy Viable?*

BY FDBETANCOR ⋅ FEBRUARY 26, 2016
*FILED UNDER* CHINA, NATIONAL DEFENSE, SOUTH CHINA SEA, US FOREIGN POLICY

In a tumultuous world, it takes a lot to make the headlines. Competing with the ongoing debacle in Syria, the refugee crisis splitting Europe apart, the possibility of Brexit and the flamboyant extravaganza of a US election featuring Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders is difficult: even issues afflicting important states like Ukraine or Brazil often fail to make the front pages. So it is interesting to see the headline status give to China’s placement of two anti-aircraft missile batteries on a disputed island in the Paracel archipelago. It is an accurate reflection of the fact that over and under the placid waters of the South China Sea, the world’s three largest economies[1] are rattling their sabers, and that the possibility of war by accident or design cannot be dismissed.

The Chinese deployment was not by itself of tremendous significance. Woody Island is disputed with Vietnam, along with the rest of the Paracel Island chain, but since the Vietnamese Navy has been twice beaten[2] into a cocked hat by the Chinese Navy, the probability of military conflict is low. Woody Island is also a real island, with all that this implies under maritime law: an exclusion zone to military navigation and a right to control the airspace above it. It is not contentious in the way that the occupation and reclamation of the more uninhabitable rocks and the sparser coral atolls in the region has become. The international Law of the Sea grants neither an exclusion zone nor air control rights to these man-made islands, a point repeatedly pressed by the US Navy in its freedom of navigation transits near the more adventurous Chinese claims in the Spratly Islands, such as Fiery Cross Reef near the Philippines.






*China’s interest in the area predate the current Communist government by several centuries. The Song Dynasty established China’s first permanent navy in 1132 AD to protect the Empire’s trading fleets, whose junks already traveled as far as the Red Sea. However, it was the Ming Dynasty that really came to value the power of a navy, using it to help overthrow the Mongolian Yuan Dynasty in 1363; to conquer Northern Vietnam in 1407; and then combining with a Korean fleet to defeat a Japanese invasion of the peninsula in 1598. The Ming navy was by no means used only against Asian rivals:*

*In the First (1521) and Second (1522) Battles of Tamao, the Chinese defeated Portuguese fleets of caravels, which had recently established a fort in Tamao (Tuen Mun) on the mouth of the Tuen Mun River, near modern Hong Kong;*
*In the battles of Penghu, Liaoluo Bay and the siege of Fort Zeelandia, Ming naval forces decisively defeated the fleets of the Dutch East India Company and local Taiwanese allies. This resulted in the establishment of Ming control over Taiwan, which was being colonized by the Dutch at that time.*
*These victories over the most aggressive of the European states colonizing Asia established the strength of China and prevented any further encroachment on her territories and dependencies for almost 200 years.*






*The newly installed Ming Emperor Yongle funded a vast expedition led by Admiral Zheng He, who undertook seven voyages between 1405 and 1433. The voyages of this “Treasure Fleet” are a classic in power projection: they carried the Ming Emperor’s flag, ambassadors and displays of wealth to “subject” kingdoms from the Sultanate of Malacca to the Straits of Hormuz and beyond. In the process, Admiral Zheng He destroyed pirate navies and overthrew local rules in Sumatra and Ceylon. This was the height of Chinese naval power, never to be exceeded, and comparable with the voyages of discovery made by Portuguese and Spanish explorers later in the century[3]. These voyages are the basis for China’s claim today to the entire South China Sea, citing ancient navigational maps left behind by the intrepid Admiral and other Ming mariners.*

_*Note: The author apparently missed to refer to the Terra nullius principle, a principle that is widely used by the many European colonial countries as the justification to their ownership of the many islands incl. those faraway from their mainland as far as over half the globe. (samsara)*_

Today over 5 trillion dollars of world trade transit the South China Sea, making it one of the most important waterways in the world. Of course, the economy most dependent on these sea lanes and least able to reroute trade is: China. While the undersea oil and gas deposits are often cited as a major reason for China’s interest, food is probably at least as important: the shallow, reef-filled waters hold a significant percentage of the world’s remaining fishing stocks and an unparalleled marine biodiversity. Both of these assets are under grave threat by the untrammeled reef-destruction and island building being undertaken by all claimants, with China at the forefront. Not only economics but also China’s geography dictate a fundamental strategic need to control the seas bordering her densely populated coast: with the exception of the Mongols, all foreign threats to China have come from the sea[4].

_*Note: The author also missed to mention that 70~80% of this $5-trillion or so maritime goods traffic through the South China Sea have the port calling to and from Chinese ports incl. HKSAR. (samsara)*_

The island building strategy makes sense from this political perspective. “Planting the flag” has always been an effective means of establishing sovereignty over a territory; as Eddie Izzard might say “no flag, no country.” This strategy is also aligned with China’s overwhelming superiority in economic and military power; the PLA(N)[5] dwarfs its regional competitors in the South China Sea, while the Chinese military budget is orders of magnitude larger than its nearest competitor: in fact, it is an order of magnitude greater than the sum of the defense outlays of all its South China Sea rivals combined. The economic and financial leverage enjoyed by Beijing is on a similar scale, which is why PRC negotiators have always rejected a multilateral negotiation on the status of the SCS. In bilateral talks, they hold all the cards.






The military implications of the island-building strategy are less obviously beneficial to China. It is an advantage to have airstrips and port facilities in advanced locations, but only if they can be defended. Otherwise they can become a liability: a location that requires resupply and defense which can quickly draw in a disproportionate amount of resources.

Take the Japanese and American experiences in the Second World War. Imperial Japan seized a vast number of islands and atolls across a wide belt of the Pacific from the Marianas to New Guinea and one of the principal purposes was to create a defensive barrier to keep the American and British navies as far from the Home Islands as possible. That strategy backfired when the Americans developed a strategy that exploited its weaknesses:

The need to resupply so many far-flung bases gave the US submarine force a wonderful opportunity to ravage the enemy’s merchant marine. Though most people remember the German U-boats and the Battle of the Atlantic, the American sub fleet crippled Japan’s war effort to an even greater extent;
The desire to take or defend these remote bases led to some of the most critical battles of the Pacific War. The Battle of Midway developed as a Japanese trap to force the Americans to defend the Marine base on the atoll with the carriers that had escaped Pearl Harbor and thus destroy them. The Americans, through better cryptology, turned the tables and sank 4 fleet carriers and a heavy cruiser – the biter bit. The US also lost a carrier and a destroyer, but the outcome was a strategic defeat for the Imperial Navy.
Guadalcanal[6] was a grinding attritional battle over 6 months in the torrid Solomon Islands where both sides committed more and more resources to an island 87 miles long and 30 miles. The Allied force commitment, mostly US Marines, increased from 14,000 during the initial landings to 60,000 by the end of the campaign. The Japanese initially had about 3,700 personnel on the islands, many of them Korean laborers rather than soldiers. Over the next six months, they funneled 36,000 troops onto the embattled isle, with more than half of them killed or captured. The Japanese also lost 38 ships and approximately 700 aircraft while the Allies lost 29 ships and 600 aircraft in the first of many meat grinder battles in the Pacific Theater.






These outcomes were not due to Japanese or American stupidity, but to the problems inherent to defending fixed positions. Having chosen them, the defender must continually supply them: even when not actively engaged in combat operations, military forces consume an enormous quantity of fuel, food, parts and other sundries which must all be brought in by ship or air. These shipments are choice targets for attack by the attacker, and logistical attrition can slow or stop a campaign just as the sinking of Italian convoys imposed a fatal drag on Rommel’s Afrika Korps. The defender must then protect these shipments, which divert military resources from other operations while also exposing them to enemy attack. Additionally, the defender cannot be strong everywhere. The attacker will always have the luxury of deciding which point to attack, and thus be able to mass a superiority of troops and equipment at that point, even if the balance of forces is more balanced over all. The advantages[7] of initiative, surprise, and mass are thus with the attacker at the outset of any campaign and the defender will be left to react to this effort through reinforcement: but the reinforcement itself will be subject to detection and attack, since the attacker knows it will be coming and where the endpoint must be.

*How do these principles and historical examples apply to China’s strategic situation? The development of PRC military capabilities, particularly in the PLA(N), has been in support of five key strategic objectives[8] outlined in a Congressional review of the PRC’s naval modernization program:*

Maintain a military option for intervention in Taiwan, if necessary[9];
Asserting and defending claims to territories in the East and South China Seas;
Enforcing China’s self-proclaimed right to regulate foreign military activities in its 200-mile maritime exclusive economic zone[10];
Exert Chinese influence and displace US influence in the Western Pacific;
Demonstrate Chinese capabilities and status as a regional and global power.
I would add a sixth objective:

6. Develop the capability to project power in defense of Chinese interests and commerce beyond the immediately surrounding sea zones.​To accomplish this, the PLA(N) has spent the past 15 years or so making large investments in improving their force structure: moving away from a focus on quantity and focusing on designing and building more modern, more capable multi-purpose platforms. *China has built far more ships than the size of her considerable fleet would indicate, and that is because the PLA(N) has been retiring obsolescent designs almost as quickly as the new craft have been introduced.*






A good example of this development is the evolution of the amphibious warfare fleet. China initially build a large number of small, simple and short-range transports capable of landing 5 to 10 tanks and perhaps a company of infantry. These ships were built in large number and their purpose was to swarm across 150 miles of the Taiwan Strait and swamp the defenders on the beaches. *However each subsequent generation of ship has been larger and introduced greater capabilities*, including helicopter decks, deck wells to launch air-cushioned vehicles, and helicopter hangars. The newest generation Type 071 _Yuzhao _is classified as a landing platform/dock, roughly comparable to the American _San Antonio_ class with the capacity to transport a full naval infantry battalion with its equipment, 15 to 20 armored vehicles, 4 helicopters, 4 air-cushioned landing craft, and fully capable of blue water operations far from Chinese coastal waters.






*Along with these enhanced capabilities, fruit of the modernization effort, China has built a sophisticated and multi-layered anti-access area denial defense (A2/AD) with the overriding purpose of preventing the US Navy from interfering in any potential conflict with Taiwan.* The strategy is centered on the Second Artillery Corps, the PLA command in charge of China’s mobile ballistic missiles and land-based cruise missiles. Batteries of hypersonic DF-21 and DF-26 intermediate range missiles with terminal maneuvering warheads are known as “carrier-killers” and their purpose is just that: destroy any US fleet carrier so foolish as to venture within range, a range that extends out to Guam. The launchers are highly mobile, making them difficult to target, and they lay behind formidable defenses designed to protect them: passive array radar reputed to be effective at detecting fifth generation stealth aircraft; S-300 and S-400 SAM batteries; short-range anti-ship ballistic and cruise missiles; advanced J-15 and J-16 multirole fighters. All of these systems combined present a formidable problem for any American Task Force commander.






The defenses are formidable, but they are focused on preventing an enemy fleet from approaching the Chinese mainland; their lethality degrades the farther one goes from the coast. The short-range missiles cannot reach much farther than Taiwan, while the land-based aircraft, radar and SAM defenses also have a limited reach. The farther disputed islands of the Scarborough Reef and Spratly Islands are at the limit of the (estimated) combat radius of Chinese land-based fighters flying from Hainan Island. Both locations are much closer to the Philippine military installations at Subic Bay and Tiniguiban in Palawan. *Even without Philippine cooperation in a Sino-American conflict, US carriers operating from the Sulu Sea would be well-positioned to launch attacks on these bases.*






The islands themselves would undoubtedly contain their own multi-layered defense, a reproduction in miniature of the systems guarding the mainland. The effectiveness of these defenses would suffer from one key factor: China is vast while the islands are very, very small. The small size of the islands in question means that the overall amount of equipment that can reasonably be placed on them is already limited; and the lack of dispersion inherent in the situation increases their vulnerability to precision guided weapons. There are only so many places to hide in 5 square miles of flat, sandy scrub. That makes these islands highly vulnerable.

*Seizing these outlying islands would be a viable US strategy in any conflict with China.* It would bring numerous important benefits, both tactical and strategic, while limiting risks at the start of the campaign. On the tactical level:

It would remove the threat of Chinese aircraft and sub operating from these bases and closing the South China Sea to US or Allied forces;
It would provide convenient bases, once repaired, to deploy US Air Force land-based aircraft to supplement the Navy fleet air arms, as well as for US and Allied submarines to penetrate the South China Sea;
It might draw Chinese reinforcement or relief efforts that would enable US forces to engage and destroy them outside the area of greatest effectiveness of China’s A2/AD envelope. In the event of a conflict, the US would like nothing better than to draw a significant part of the Chinese fleet far from its bases and maul it;
The strategic benefits of targeting these islands would also be large:

Seizing these bases would reassure any engaged or potential US allies in the region, especially the Philippines, Malaysia, Singapore and Vietnam;
Assuming the US would not start a conflict with China, American forces would initially find themselves on the defensive, just as in World War 2. These islands would provide a means to take the initiative in a secondary theater, potentially distracting and diverting Chinese forces from the primary theater (most likely Taiwan, Japan, South Korea or some combination of the three).
Capture of these islands would also provide a morale booster to US and Allied forces and populations to offset the losses one could expect from an initial Chinese attack that achieves any degree of surprise.
The islands themselves could become useful bargaining chips in peace negotiations.
In other words, the US might find itself engaged in a sort of modern island-hopping campaign, wearing down Chinese naval and air forces as American and Allied task forces slowly approach the Chinese mainland. As PLA(N) and PLAAF capabilities are degraded, the US would retain the initiative by shifting the focus of strikes to different points along the line of the fixed defenses. Eventually, the ring would close enough to permit landings on Taiwan and the liberation of that island from occupying forces. That would seem to be a more likely plan than a direct approach to Taiwan into the teeth of the Second Artillery Corps missile batteries.

While China derives important political benefits in peace time from its island building activities as part of its “salami-slicing” tactics in the South China Sea, it is actually providing the US Navy with future hostages in the event of war. The islands and reefs of the SCS are too small to provide an adequate defense in depth on their own resources and they are far enough from the mainland to be vulnerable to US navy task forces assigned to occupy them. If conflict broke out between the two great powers[11], the US could profitably pursue a new “island hopping” strategy against China.

*Sources and Notes*

[1] And numerous smaller, but strategically important, states as well. Although Japan is not directly involved in the South China Sea disputes, it has several open disputes with China in the East China Sea, especially the one simmering over the Senkaku-Diaoyu Islands. It is thus keenly interested in Chinese activities, supportive of the other claimants, and eager to avoid any settlements or precedents prejudicial to its own interests.

[2] Battle of the Paracel Islands (1974) and Johnson South Reef Skirmish (1988). To be fair, the former skirmish was against the South Vietnamese Navy.

[3] The one way distance between Shanghai-Surabaya-Aden is approximately 12,200 kilometers. The one way distance between Cádiz-Bariay, Cuba is approximately 6,800 kilometers. Of course, Admiral Zheng He had far more knowledge of this destination and many more intermediate ports to visit than Christopher Columbus did in his voyage; but Columbus did not have to negotiate with sophisticated and powerful local rulers in his expeditions. The dangers of the sea and the need to care for ships and men were the same for both navigators. It is interesting to note that the distance from Shanghai to Los Angeles is approximately 10,500 kilometers; but any Chinese ship sailing east towards North America would do so against the prevailing trade winds, an impossible feat for vessels of that era. The only practical route would be to sail north of Hokkaido and into the far Northern Pacific, where the prevailing winds blow towards the Americas. But what could possibly tempt any Chinese Emperor to fund such a voyage into the bleak and hostile north?






[4] Portugal, the Netherlands, France, Great Britain, Germany, the United States and most importantly Japan have all attempted to or actually carved out pieces of Chinese territory during the “Century of Humiliations.” Russia too has taken nominally Chinese territory, but the Amur River basin is far to the north of the “heartland” region between the Pearl, Yellow and Yangtse rivers, while the center of Russian power is 15,000 miles away over some of the most difficult terrain known to man. The threat from the sea can immediately and without warning strike the most important cities and factories of China, as Japan demonstrated in the Sino-Japanese War of 1937 to 1945.

[5] The Chinese Navy is officially called the People’s Liberation Army Navy, which is a most inauspicious name as any sailor would agree.

[6] Guadalcanal was only one of the islands targeted, Tulagi and Florida were also invaded.

[7] Mass, initiative and surprise are three of the principles of war, the exact number and definition of which varies from country to country. The British define 10 principles, the US 9, the Soviet Union and Russians define 12 principles; but the first three are common to all modern doctrines, were formalized by Carl von Clausewitz and have been around at least since Sun Tzu’s “Art of War”.

[8] Ronald O’Rourke, Specialist in Naval Affairs, “China Naval Modernization: Implications for U.S. Navy Capabilities – Background and Issues for Congress,” Congressional Research Service, 01 June 2015

[9] Such as in the event of a Taiwanese unilateral declaration of independence

[10] The International Law of the Sea – which China has signed but which the US has not – grants the EEC, but not a right to regulate “innocent passage” of military vessels in that zone.

[11] God forbid.

https://www.fdbetancor.com/2016/02/26/from-island-building-to-island-hopping-is-chinas-south-china-sea-strategy-viable/


An excerpt from the author's biography:

A native son of the Old Dominion, I was born and raised in Fairfax County. My parents were immigrants from Uruguay, a tiny nation known as the “Switzerland of South America”. Grandfather came to Washington to work for the Voice of America, a government radio organization transmitting news and cultural programs to Latin America, and the rest of the family followed.

I served in the military for four years, 1993 to 1997. In that time I was assigned to the 101st Air Assault Division, Fort Campbell, Kentucky. There I served with the 2nd Battalion, 502nd Infantry Regiment (Strike Force) and 1st Battalion, 187th Infantry Regiment (Rakkasans). I spent a year in South Korea with 1st Battalion, 506th Infantry Regiment (Currahee) at Camp Greaves, just 2 kilometers from the demilitarized zone and North Korea. In late 1996, I was deployed with the Rakkasans to Dhahran, Saudi Arabia, in response to the Khobar Tower bombings.
。。。

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## cochine

Last update 14:49 | 27/11/2017
 


More than 200 delegates attend international East Sea Conference
_The ninth International Conference on the East Sea themed "Cooperation for Regional Security and Development," opened on November 27 in Ho Chi Minh City, with more than 200 delegates in attendance._


_



_




During the two-day conference, officials, experts and scholars from the US, Japan, the Republic of Korea, Australia, India, ASEAN and ambassadors and diplomatic representatives in Vietnam will discuss measures to deepen their understanding about common interests in maintaining peace and stability in the East Sea and propose solutions to disputes in the territorial waters.

The reputable forum was jointly held by the Diplomatic Academy of Vietnam, the Foundation for East Sea Studies and the Vietnam Lawyers Association.

VOV

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cochine

samsara said:


> he newly installed _Ming Emperor Yongle_ funded a vast expedition led by _Admiral Zheng He_, who undertook _seven voyages between 1405 and 1433_. The voyages of this “Treasure Fleet” are a classic in power projection: they carried the Ming Emperor’s flag, ambassadors and displays of wealth to “subject” kingdoms from the Sultanate of Malacca to the Straits of Hormuz and beyond. In the process, Admiral Zheng He destroyed pirate navies and overthrew local rules in Sumatra and Ceylon. This was the height of Chinese naval power, never to be exceeded, and comparable with the voyages of discovery made by Portuguese and Spanish explorers later in the century[3]. These voyages are the basis for China’s claim today to the entire South China Sea, citing ancient navigational maps left behind by the intrepid Admiral and other Ming mariners.



But Ming dynasty China recognized there is "Cochin sea", the sea of Vietnamese.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## SEAISI

kecho said:


> But Ming dynasty China recognized there is "Cochin sea", the sea of Vietnamese.



cochin was ruled by ming at the time. are you trying to say vietnam is part of china based on that map?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cochine

SEAISI said:


> cochin was ruled by ming at the time. are you trying to say vietnam is part of china based on that map?



Viet had kicked Ming invaders out from Vietnam. In the map is stated clearly that where is the Cochine border. Enough said. (can you read Chinese characters ?).

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## FlowerSummer

kecho said:


> Viet had kicked Ming invaders out from Vietnam. In the map is stated clearly that where is the Cochine border. Enough said. (can you read Chinese characters ?).



The cochine border is different from the cochine "ocean".
Ming name the sea as cochine "ocean" doesn't mean that "cochine" own the cochine "ocean". Just like argentina became independent yet Falkland island still belongs to UK.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cochine

FlowerSummer said:


> The cochine border is different from the cochine "ocean".
> Ming name the sea as cochine "ocean" doesn't mean that "cochine" own the cochine "ocean". Just like argentina became independent yet Falkland island still belongs to UK.



Apply your logic , China could shoot up to say that SCS is sea of China with nine dashed claim in 1948.

The story here is different, the Cochine sea or ocean is existed long before the Zheng He's voyager in to the south. Vietnam is independent state with his border, and Vietnamese had controlled the Island in East Sea of Vietnam from early time, before Zheng He voyage and the time when KMT's gov in China had claimed nine dashed in the SCS in 1948.

China invaded recently with force in to the Islands of Vietnam and killing Vietnamese there in 1974 and in 1988. China's claim and occupation on Islands of Vietnam is illegal.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## FlowerSummer

kecho said:


> Apply your logic , China could shoot up to say that SCS is sea of China with nine dashed claim in 1948.
> 
> The story here is different, the Cochine sea or ocean is existed long before the Zheng He's voyager in to the south. Vietnam is independent state with his border, and Vietnamese had controlled the Island in East Sea of Vietnam from early time, before Zheng He voyage and the time when KMT's gov in China had claimed nine dashed in the SCS in 1948.
> 
> China invaded recently with force in to the Islands of Vietnam and killing Vietnamese there in 1974 and in 1988. China's claim and occupation on Islands of Vietnam is illegal.



China claim on 9 dashed is not based on the name of SCS alone, otherwise india probably gonna claim the entire indian ocean which is absurb. China have detail records of SCS in the ancient times, far older than other SCS claimants.

Also if you wanna mention "early" times, then china can claim the entire Vietnam rather than just SCS, because Vietnam is part of china for centuries long before zheng he's voyage ang KMT era.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viva_Viet

No thing new in SCS(east Vn sea), PLAN still so poorly trained and useless as usual, VN still control the biggest and the most important part.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## sinait

kecho said:


> Chinese can not deny that Mônglian Kublai khan is foreigner, Mongolians had invaded and conquered total China territory and ruled China in long time, Yuan is foreigner Dynasty. Long or short time ruling by foreigner in Vietnam or in China is got same nuture. Occupation by foreign invaders in other countries's territory is illegal.
> 
> Japan did not given Senkaku Island back to China after WW 2. it did not mentioned in San Fracisco Treaty after WW 2. "Nine dashed Claim" in 1948 of China over Islands of Vietnam in East Sea of Vietnam is illegal.


Kublai Khan willingly became Chinese.
He ruled as a Chinese emperor, so he is not a foreigner.
You can also apply to become a Chinese though I doubt they will accept you.
.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## FlowerSummer

kecho said:


> Chinese can not deny that Mônglian Kublai khan is foreigner, Mongolians had invaded and conquered total China territory and ruled China in long time, Yuan is foreigner Dynasty. Long or short time ruling by foreigner in Vietnam or in China is got same nuture. Occupation by foreign invaders in other countries's territory is illegal.
> 
> Japan did not given Senkaku Island back to China after WW 2. it did not mentioned in San Fracisco Treaty after WW 2. "Nine dashed Claim" in 1948 of China over Islands of Vietnam in East Sea of Vietnam is illegal.



Applying your logic, the current British monarch is a foreigner dynasty in UK, I guess good old Eliz aren't gonna happy to hear that. Long or short time ruling does matter when it comes to claim, generally if there is multiple claimant on the same territory, the one who can prove that they are the one that rule these area longer than other claimant will have the strongest claim.

Whether it get mention in treaty or not is another problem, but as a loser in WW2, japan needs to return ALL territory they annex from china. This is not even the problem about legality, but about the responsibilities japan need to take up for trying to play the bully during WW2 but ultimately lost. If they don't shoulder their share of responsibilities, it will be very unfair for Germany, which has also lost WW2 and force to return all the territory they once annex.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## samsara

kecho said:


> Chinese can not deny that Mônglian Kublai khan is foreigner, Mongolians had invaded and conquered total China territory and ruled China in long time, Yuan is foreigner Dynasty. Long or short time ruling by foreigner in Vietnam or in China is got same nuture. Occupation by foreign invaders in other countries's territory is illegal.
> 
> Japan did not given Senkaku Island back to China after WW 2. it did not mentioned in San Fracisco Treaty after WW 2. "Nine dashed Claim" in 1948 of China over Islands of Vietnam in East Sea of Vietnam is illegal.


And you may also add up another FOREIGN dynasty to serve your narration: MANCHU or QING Dynasty 

Don't you feel shy that you know so little about the Chinese history yet mentioned it often here at PDF? I still feel amazed with your statement that people in Taiwan Island speak Hokkien thus they are not Han people  

And about the Diaoyu Island, Japan can dream on to ever settle with that their illegal occupation of that island.
As @sinait mentioned, Japan need to launch again its Third Aggression against China and win over it in order to settle with the loot resulted from the *Shimonoseki Treaty 1895* following *the First Chinese People's War of Resistance Against Japanese Aggression (抗日战争)*.

And among many other things, TIME does not side with Japan either... and neither Vietnam on its illegal occupation of those Chinese territories in the South China Sea!

During the Japanese war of aggression against China, Japan invaded and illegally occupied *Nanhai Zhudao*. After the end of World War II, the *Cairo Declaration* and the *Potsdam Proclamation* as well as a series of post-war international documents stipulated that *all territories Japan had stolen should be returned to China*. *Accordingly, after World War II, China recovered Taiwan, Penghu Islands, Xisha Qundao and Nansha Qundao which belong to China in the first place.* After the resumption of the exercise of sovereignty over Nanhai Zhudao, China drew up the relevant map with the dotted line, and published the map to the world in 1948. So the dotted line has been there since 1948.

Since its founding, the People's Republic of China has further upheld its sovereignty over Nanhai Zhudao and the relevant rights and interests in the South China Sea. China has never stopped patrolling Nanhai Zhudao and relevant waters as well as law enforcement, resource development and scientific survey activities there. Nanhai Zhudao have been widely recognized as a part of China's territory by the international community after World War II, which constitutes an integral part of post-war territorial arrangement and international order. Encyclopedias, yearbooks and maps published in many countries after the war all mark the Nansha Qundao as Chinese territory.
。。。

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## sinait

kecho said:


> The Mongol Empire emerged from the unification of nomadic tribes in the Mongol homeland under the leadership of Genghis Khan, he was not chinese. He annexed China to Mongolia.


Very tiring to convince an ignoramus.
Joining Mongolia to China and annexing China is a big difference.
https://www.biography.com/people/kublai-khan-9369657
*Kublai Khan Biography.com*
Emperor, General(c. 1215–c. 1294)
Mongolian general and statesman Kublai Khan was the grandson of Genghis Khan. *
He conquered China, founding and becoming the first emperor of the country's Yuan Dynasty.*

Kublai Khan became a Chinese emperor, the first emperor of the Yuan Dynasty.
I cannot help you if you cannot comprehend such simple English.
.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## sinait

kecho said:


> Treaty is treaty. The matter is not depend on your willing.
> 
> Next time, President of USA will conquer all territory of China and announced that he join to Chinese and has right to rule Chinese people. is he right ?


I think you have serious problem with logic.
Have you seen a Mongolian in person ?
A Mongolian Chinese is indistinguishable from the rest of the Chinese.
I am not from China, but I think the Chinese would like it if the USA become part of China.
If the Japanese had been willing to be part of China, China could very well had a Japanese Chinese emperor.
That is the invader must become Chinese to rule over the Chinese.
The result was a 8 year long war that resulted in the total defeat of the Japanese.

That is the strength and greatness of the Chinese culture, it is able to subsume the invader.
.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## FlowerSummer

kecho said:


> The Mongol Empire emerged from the unification of nomadic tribes in the Mongol homeland under the leadership of Genghis Khan, he was not chinese. He annexed China to Mongolia.



Genghis is not an emperor of china, but Kublai is. Kublai formed Yuan dynasty and split it from the mongol empire. You need to learn more about Chinese and mongol history, do you even know the history about mongol empire collapse into 4 major parts, where the legit heir line of Genghis ruling only golden horde and lost control over the other 3 major parts of the former mongol empire?



kecho said:


> the current British monarch had gained her power in side of UK territory, she is native people of England at this time. China nine dashed claim in East Sea of Vietnam is from 1948, very short time, when Cochine ocean does belong to Vietnamese far more longer than your claimant.



The current British dynasty aren't originated from England LOL, they aren't native in England LOL, I bet Irish are so wanna kill you now. And Kublai khan too gain power from china not Mongolia, because the legit heir of Genghis is ruling golden horde, Kublai doesnt rule golden horde. By the time yuan dynasty is form, the mongol empire already fractured to 4 major parts. This is the reason why Chinese historian doesn't included Genghis in the records of yuan emperors, because Genghis died before yuan is form, and thus china cant claim the other mongol khanate territory.



kecho said:


> Treaty is treaty. The matter does not depend on your willing.
> 
> 
> 
> Next time, President of USA will conquer all territory of China and announced that he join to Chinese and has right to rule Chinese people. is he right ?



Applying your logic, then china controlling and ruling SCS is legit, because I never know about a treaty says the island in SCS belong to Vietnam.

If said president let go his USA citizenship, obtain Chinese citizenship, name the new country using china system instead of America way, set the newly form (that included north America territory) china's capital in asia, as well as all administration system follow the former Chinese government system, then yes, he can rule Chinese.

Basically if the newly form china follows the system of former Chinese administration in majority, this new country is basically china.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cochine

sinait said:


> I think you have serious problem with logic.
> Have you seen a Mongolian in person ?
> A Mongolian Chinese is indistinguishable from the rest of the Chinese.
> I am not from China, but I think the Chinese would like it if the USA become part of China.
> If the Japanese had been willing to be part of China, China could very well had a Japanese Chinese emperor.
> That is the invader must become Chinese to rule over the Chinese.
> The result was a 8 year long war that resulted in the total defeat of the Japanese.
> 
> That is the strength and greatness of the Chinese culture, it is able to subsume the invader.
> .



Redirect, you accepted that Mongolian Emperor òf Yuan was invader and had ruled Chinese people.



FlowerSummer said:


> Genghis is not an emperor of china, but Kublai is. Kublai formed Yuan dynasty and split it from the mongol empire. You need to learn more about Chinese and mongol history, do you even know the history about mongol empire collapse into 4 major parts, where the legit heir line of Genghis ruling only golden horde and lost control over the other 3 major parts of the former mongol empire?



Separating and collapsing is the failure of all Empire in the world in the histories. Kublai was the rest heritage of the former Mongolian Emperor and ruled China to the end of his Yuan Dynasty. Ming Dynasty Emperor of China was legally kicked out Mongolian invader back to where they was native people and established the Ming Dynasty.



FlowerSummer said:


> The current British dynasty aren't originated from England LOL, they aren't native in England LOL, I bet Irish are so wanna kill you now. And Kublai khan too gain power from china not Mongolia, because the legit heir of Genghis is ruling golden horde, Kublai doesnt rule golden horde. By the time yuan dynasty is form, the mongol empire already fractured to 4 major parts. This is the reason why Chinese historian doesn't included Genghis in the records of yuan emperors, because Genghis died before yuan is form, and thus china cant claim the other mongol khanate territory.



British Monarch is not separated from German Monarch or other Europ Monarch in mainland Europe, my friend.



FlowerSummer said:


> Applying your logic, then china controlling and ruling SCS is legit, because I never know about a treaty says the island in SCS belong to Vietnam.
> 
> If said president let go his USA citizenship, obtain Chinese citizenship, name the new country using china system instead of America way, set the newly form (that included north America territory) china's capital in asia, as well as all administration system follow the former Chinese government system, then yes, he can rule Chinese.
> 
> Basically if the newly form china follows the system of former Chinese administration in majority, this new country is basically china.



Study more, my friend.

by Sans Francisco Conference after WW 2, in 1951, Claim of China KMT over Paracel and Spratly Islands of Vietnam (was ocouppated by Japanese Army from 1940 to 1945) was completely rejected (45 votes against out of 51).

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## sinait

kecho said:


> Redirect, you accepted that Mongolian Emperor òf Yuan was invader and had ruled Chinese people.


You are really FUNNY.
Kublai Khan became Chinese to rule China and he ruled from ancient Beijing.
The normal folks couldn't be bothered who is ruling them as long as the emperor is one of them, among the many different ethnic Chinese and is able to provide peace, food and prosperitiy.
In the distant future, an ethnic Japanese Chinese could become president of China.

Did the Chinese convert to Vietnamese to rule Vietnam, and moved its capital to Vietnam ?
Did the French convert to Vietnamese to rule Vietnam, and moved its capital to Vietnam ?
Did the USA become Vietnamese to control Vietnam, and moved its capital to Vietnam ?
See the Difference ? Maybe not as you got problem processing logic.
.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## FlowerSummer

kecho said:


> Redirect, you accepted that Mongolian Emperor òf Yuan was invader and had ruled Chinese people.
> 
> 
> 
> Separating and collapsing is the failure of all Empire in the world in the histories. Kublai was the rest heritage of the former Mongolian Emperor and ruled China to the end of his Yuan Dynasty. Ming Dynasty Emperor of China was legally kicked out Mongolian invader back to where they was native people and established the Ming Dynasty.
> 
> 
> 
> British Monarch is not separated from German Monarch or other Europ Monarch in mainland Europe, my friend.
> 
> 
> 
> Study more, my friend.
> 
> by Sans Francisco Conference after WW 2, in 1951, Claim of China KMT over Paracel and Spratly Islands of Vietnam (was ocouppated by Japanese Army from 1940 to 1945) was completely rejected (45 votes against out of 51).



I don't get your logic at all, on one hand you stated british monarch are England native dynasty (the truth is Britain had been invaded, conquered and ruled by waves after waves of foreign dynasties since roman conquest of Britannia, so many to the point I cant count how many of them), on the other hand you said british monarch aren't separated from german monarch... so tell me my friend, is good old Eliz native of England or native of german? Is it the british ruling germans or Germans ruling british?

Kublai doesn't take any order from the golden horde khagan, this means that yuan empire is independent and was not a part of mongol empire. FYI, The founder of thai kingdom is a legit Chinese named zheng xin, as well as some of your viets dynasties founders have han Chinese bloodline, so Thailand is ruled by Chinese all along? And is Vietnam ruled by Chinese until the French came to colonize viets?

Pardon my ignorance, does ANY TREATY specified SCS island belong to Vietnam? Don't try to dodge my question. And isn't sans Francisco conference was held while china was absent, I don't think such conference result is credible when any claimant on disputed territory is absent from it.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cochine

sinait said:


> You are really FUNNY.
> Kublai Khan became Chinese to rule China and he ruled from ancient Beijing.
> The normal folks couldn't be bothered who is ruling them as long as the emperor is one of them, among the many different ethnic Chinese and is able to provide peace, food and prosperitiy.
> In the distant future, an ethnic Japanese Chinese could become president of China.
> 
> Did the Chinese convert to Vietnamese to rule Vietnam, and moved its capital to Vietnam ?
> Did the French convert to Vietnamese to rule Vietnam, and moved its capital to Vietnam ?
> Did the USA become Vietnamese to control Vietnam, and moved its capital to Vietnam ?
> See the Difference ? Maybe not as you got problem processing logic.
> .





FlowerSummer said:


> I don't get your logic at all, on one hand you stated british monarch are England native dynasty (the truth is Britain had been invaded, conquered and ruled by waves after waves of foreign dynasties since roman conquest of Britannia, so many to the point I cant count how many of them), on the other hand you said british monarch aren't separated from german monarch... so tell me my friend, is good old Eliz native of England or native of german? Is it the british ruling germans or Germans ruling british?
> 
> Kublai doesn't take any order from the golden horde khagan, this means that yuan empire is independent and was not a part of mongol empire. FYI, The founder of thai kingdom is a legit Chinese named zheng xin, as well as some of your viets dynasties founders have han Chinese bloodline, so Thailand is ruled by Chinese all along? And is Vietnam ruled by Chinese until the French came to colonize viets?
> 
> Pardon my ignorance, does ANY TREATY specified SCS island belong to Vietnam? Don't try to dodge my question. And isn't sans Francisco conference was held while china was absent, I don't think such conference result is credible when any claimant on disputed territory is absent from it.



What you said above ís propaganda òf China about China hístory. About that Kublai Khan had really conquered China. It was the first foreign dynasty (yuan) to rule all of China and lasted until 1368. In addition to Emperor of China, *Kublai Khan also claimed the title of Great Khan, supreme over the other successor khanates: the Chagatai, the Golden Horde, and the Ilkhanate*. As such, the Yuan Dynasty is created by Kublai was also as the *Empire of the Great Khan*. Kublai had taken the power in China with force and invaded in to Chia territory and won on chinese native people.

There history of Thailand and Vietnam is different, this is the internal matter of Thái and Việt people, Hua Yue native ethnic persons in Thailand and Vietnam, so they had their Thái and Việt citizenship first, before they could taken power in Thailand and Vietnam Kingdoms. Trần dynasty Vietnam is origin from Baiyue, no Han, has fought counter China Yuan invasion many time, to protect Independence of Vietnam. The matter is totally different to Yuan Mongolian in China.

About the disputation in SCS, China has fabricated about the history that China has discovered SCS by Zheng He voyage, in fact there was "Cohine (Vietnamese) Ocean" is stating clearly in China's map. 

And also importance point of San Francisco Treaty is that : Claim of China in 1948 with "nine dashed line" is rejected by general voting.


----------



## terranMarine

No matter how many times this monkey fabricating history, facts remain facts. We have scared them so much they told the Spanish to stop drilling oil

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## sinait

kecho said:


> What you said above ís propaganda òf China about China hístory. About that Kublai Khan had really conquered China. It was the first foreign dynasty (yuan) to rule all of China and lasted until 1368. In addition to Emperor of China, *Kublai Khan also claimed the title of Great Khan, supreme over the other successor khanates: the Chagatai, the Golden Horde, and the Ilkhanate*. As such, the Yuan Dynasty is created by Kublai was also as the *Empire of the Great Khan*. Kublai had taken the power in China with force and invaded in to Chia territory and won on chinese native people.
> 
> There history of Thailand and Vietnam is different, this is the internal matter of Thái and Việt people, Hua Yue native ethnic persons in Thailand and Vietnam, so they had their Thái and Việt citizenship first, before they could taken power in Thailand and Vietnam Kingdoms. Trần dynasty Vietnam is origin from Baiyue, no Han, has fought counter China Yuan invasion many time, to protect Independence of Vietnam. The matter is totally different to Yuan Mongolian in China.
> 
> About the disputation in SCS, China has fabricated about the history that China has discovered SCS by Zheng He voyage, in fact there was "Cohine (Vietnamese) Ocean" is stating clearly in China's map.
> 
> And also importance point of San Francisco Treaty is that : Claim of China in 1948 with "nine dashed line" is rejected by general voting.


I have to give up on you.
Nobody is disputing the fact that Kublai Khan conquered China, but he had to rule as a Chinese emperor from China or else he will be kicked out in an unending war like the Japanese.
Don't keep flogging the dead horse !

According to your version of Vietnam, the following must be FAKE.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_writing_in_Vietnam
Until the beginning of the 20th century, government and scholarly documents in Vietnam were written in classical Chinese (Vietnamese: _cổ văn_ 古文 or _văn ngôn_ 文言)
So the Chinese became Vietnamese and learned Viet script to rule Vietnam ?
Except there was no Viet script.
The French became Vietnamese and learned Viet script to rule Vietnam ?
The French moved their capital to Vietnam and ruled the French empire from Vietnam ?
I give up on you !
Bye.
.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## samsara

FlowerSummer said:


> I don't get your logic at all, on one hand you stated british monarch are England native dynasty (the truth is Britain had been invaded, conquered and ruled by waves after waves of foreign dynasties since roman conquest of Britannia, so many to the point I cant count how many of them), on the other hand you said british monarch aren't separated from german monarch... so tell me my friend, is good old Eliz native of England or native of german? Is it the british ruling germans or Germans ruling british?
> 
> Kublai doesn't take any order from the golden horde khagan, this means that yuan empire is independent and was not a part of mongol empire. FYI, The founder of thai kingdom is a legit Chinese named zheng xin, as well as some of your viets dynasties founders have han Chinese bloodline, so Thailand is ruled by Chinese all along? And is Vietnam ruled by Chinese until the French came to colonize viets?
> 
> Pardon my ignorance, does ANY TREATY specified SCS island belong to Vietnam? Don't try to dodge my question. And isn't sans Francisco conference was held while china was absent, I don't think such conference result is credible when any claimant on disputed territory is absent from it.


Thanks for your clue about the founder of Thai kingdom and Zheng Xin, here are some fascinating read resulted from a brief dig in the internet. If time allows, shall dig deeper the rain forest of the internet to learn more...

And history is indeed a bitch  the more one digs the more new facts come out... 
Due to time constraint I left out the part of *Nguyễn Ánh or the Emperor Gia Long* (1802-) (Thai; Phrachao Vietnam Ya Long), perhaps the other time I'll dig in this figure.


Some yield simply from a flash dig...

*King Taksin and Thailand's Chinese roots | The Nation*

By Pimpraphai Bisalputra - October 08, 2016 01:00

_Special to The Nation_

*Behind the modern-day success story of the Thai-Chinese lies a saga of heroes who changed the course of history*

Though their ancestors' importance to Siamese history can hardly be overstated, few ethnic Chinese in Thailand today can trace their ancestry beyond the Bangkok period.

Among these ancestors are the great heroes of THONBURI, who ousted the Burmese invaders and reclaimed AYUDHYA for Siam. Yet their descendants have largely disappeared without a trace.

*For almost 250 years, KING TAKSIN, the man who FOUNDED the THONBURI KINGDOM after avenging Ayudhya's destruction by the Burmese in 1767, has been a revered household icon in Thailand.*

*Yet although more monuments and words have been lavished on Taksin than on many other Siamese kings*, the life and times of this great ruler and his peerless comrades-in-arms remain shrouded in mystery.

Most deserving of mention are the legendary exploits of the stalwart fighters who fought shoulder to shoulder with the mercurial half-Chinese general Taksin, in his quest for supremacy and legitimacy over his rivals to the throne.

*Humble beginnings to Ayudhya triumph*

According to Zhen Rui, a Chinese officer sent from Canton to report on the fall of Ayudhya in 1768, *King Taksin was born Tae Sin (Zheng Xin)* of no renowned lineage in Ayudhya. *His father Tae Yong was a Teochew immigrant from Chenghai County in Guangdong Province.*

After reclaiming Ayudhya, King Taksin sent several tribute missions to China seeking royal investiture. In his letter to the *Qianlong Emperor*, Taksin called himself *Zheng Zhao*, using his Chinese clan name Zheng and Zhao for the Thai word “*chao*”, meaning ruler.

According to Zhen Rui's report to the Viceroy of Canton, Taksin had several Chinese aides, including Chen Lian, Chen Wu, Huang Qian, Su Si and Lan Lai, who was his finance minister.

In matching these names with the Thai chronicles, *Chen Lian and Lan Lai were probably Phraya Phipit and Phraya Phichai respectively*. These were the generals who commanded the king's Chinese troops that stormed the Burmese camp at Pho Sam Ton. The battle brought the final victory for Taksin at Ayudhya, before he moved the capital of Siam down to Thonburi, over the river from present-day Bangkok.

Following the collapse of Ayudhya, anarchy prevailed. Bandits and pirates roamed the forests and waterways. The economy and fertile lands had been laid waste by sustained warfare and the population of the Central Plain was depleted. Above all, famine threatened.

Taksin's immediate priority was to find food for the populace, curb banditry, piracy and restore law and order so that people could resume their livelihoods.

In 1769 an outbreak of famine and disease decimated the population of the emergent kingdom of Thonburi. French missionaries reported that more Siamese died from starvation that year than during the Burmese invasion.

In Thonburi, Catholic priest M Corre wrote that local residents, both Thai and Chinese, plundered abandoned temples. Meanwhile, concessions were being handed out to hunt for hidden treasure among the ruins of Ayudhya. A Chinese treasure hunter found three shiploads of gold at Wat Phutthai Sawan while others at Wat Pradu found five buried caches of silver. The precious metals were put back into circulation by the temple raiders, who also melted down numerous Buddha images looted from temples.

*Building a kingdom*

The once unitary state of Ayudhya had fragmented into a tapestry of fiefdoms.
The daunting task facing Taksin was to unify these competing and conflicting centres of power. His eventual success came thanks to personal courage, but also his shrewd economic instincts.

The strategy of controlling all the important Siamese ports in the gulf, along with a push to form alliances with regional warlords, contributed to Taksin's early military and economic success. A case in point was the story of *Hao Yiang (Wu Rang), the patriarch of the Na Songkhla clan.*

Hao Yiang, a native of Zhangzhou, arrived in Songkhla in 1750 at the age of 34. He was engaged in farming and fishing and by the time of King Taksin's Nakhon Si Thammarat campaign in 1769, he was already a prosperous man, known in Songkhla as the Great Elder.

Hao Yiang sought out Taksin to bestow on the king a gift of 50 boxes of tobacco. The meeting went well and Hao was granted the lucrative concession to collect bird's nests on Koh Si and Koh Ha.

His sons were sent to Thonburi for education and Hao visited the king to pay his obeisance in person every year. As the leader of the local community commanding substantial manpower, he was eventually appointed governor of Songkhla in 1775.

Seven successive members of the Na Songkhla clan succeeded Hao Yiang as governor till the death of Phraya Vichienkhiri (Chom na Songkhla) in 1901.

The new-found wealth generated by the interplay of Chinese, opportunism, China trade and mercantilism on Siam's eastern and southern frontiers helped King Taksin finance Thonburi's many wars. Serving the economic interests of the merchant class in turn fuelled the economic resurgence of the Siamese state.

*My research of more than 10 years shows that, apart from the King's descendants, fewer than 10 modern-day Chinese clans can trace their ancestry back to the Thonburi era.*

*Pridi Banomyong among descendants*

Among these, the most touching story came from the Teochew family of Pridi Banomyong, the seventh prime minister of Thailand, who traced his ancestry to Thonburi.

According to Pridi, who spent time living in exile in China, his forefather Chen Xing was in fact King Taksin's first cousin. Chen Xing's mother was a sister of Zheng Yong, Taksin's father. Driven by poverty, Chen Xing decided leave his wife and son in China and join his maternal uncle.

During the Thonburi-period wars, Chen Xing joined his cousin's regiment and subsequently died in the service of King Taksin. The family in China was not informed of his death until Taksin responded to his mother's enquiry about her missing son. Subsequently, King Taksin sent money as compensation to Chen Xing's family in China.

In 1814, Chen Xing's grandson Chen Chengyu, known in Thai as Nai Kok, emigrated to Siam and made his living selling Chinese and Thai sweets in Ayudhya. *Nai Kok was the great grandfather of Pridi Banomyong, the founder of Thammasat University.*

Known descendants of Taksin are quite numerous. Family names tracing their lineage to the king of Thonburi include Sinsuk, Indrayothin, Pongsin, Rungpairoj, Silanond, Indrakamhaeng and a branch of the Na Nakorn family. Those descended from King Taksin's daughters include Issarasena, Dharmasaroja, Noppavong, Supradit, Srithawat, Watanavong, Ratanakot, Panumas and Kanchanavichai.

Apart from the king's offspring the Teochew families that can trace their roots back to this period include the Sombatsiri and the Swasdibutra, who descended from Tan Teck Ngun and Lim Boon Ping respectively.

*Two of the oldest Hokkien family tales are those of Su Xiang and Lim Riksh.*

Su Xiang was a native of Zhangzhou, who came to live in Thonburi, where his son was born in 1776. His grandson made good and was appointed Luang Aphai Vanich (Chak) during the reign of King Rama III.

The Su clan (called So in Thai) later settled in Bangkok's Talad Noi district. *Talad Noi has been the symbolic centre of Hokkien culture in Bangkok since its formation.* The district is home to a shrine of the Hokkien deity Cho Sue Kong (Qing Shui Zu Shi), which also houses the Hokkien Association.

Members of the Su clan lived in adjoining houses clustered near the Cho Su Kong shrine. *Su Xiang was a forefather of Korn Chatikavanij, former finance minister, and of two-time former prime minister Anand Panyarachun.*

According to the Krairiksh's family history, their ancestor Lim Riksh was the Hokkien translator in King Taksin's final tribute mission to Canton. The *May 1781* mission of 11 ships was headed by Phraya Sunthorn Aphai, who was to fall ill and die in Beijing.

By the time the ships arrived back in Thonburi, *King Rama I* had already ascended the throne. Lim Riksh later worked for Rama I's younger brother as the Phrakhlang of the Front Palace. During the reign of King Rama II, Lim Riksh's son Thong Chin was appointed Phraya Choduk Rachasretthi, sheriff of the Chinese community in Bangkok.

*Cambodian campaign*

The Chronicle of Bangkok tells us that Chin Kun, the Chinese patriarch of the Ratanakul family from the Mae Klong River, was counted among Rama I's loyal friends. Kun was a military commander in the service of the King of Thonburi with the rank of Phra Rachprasith. Rama I later appointed him Phraya Phrakhlang and under King Rama II Kun eventually rose to the rank of Chao Phraya Ratanathibeth, the Samuhanayok.

Of the two brave Chinese generals who attacked the Pho Sam Ton camp, finance minister Lan Lai (Phraya Phichai Kosa) featured prominently in the early days of the reign. His assignments included building fortifications at Phrapadaeng, Samut Sakhon and Samut Songkhram. In 1769 Phraya Phichai was sent to attack Battambang while Phraya Anuchitracha (Boonma) attacked Siem Reap.

The unsuccessful campaign was a prelude to the 1771 war in which King Taksin led troops to Cambodia himself. In this campaign, Phraya Phichai subdued Kampot and led its Cham governor Phraya Panglima to pledge his loyalty to Taksin in Phnom Penh. Curiously, the Cambodian campaign marks the last time Phraya Phichai is mentioned in historical records. He probably passed away soon after. So far none of his descendants has been traced.

The Chinese general who outlived the king was Chen Lian, known in the early days as Phraya Phipit. In 1770 when Ha Tien attacked Chantabun while Taksin was on campaign in Nakhon Si Thammarat, the king sent Chen Lian to reinforce the defence of Chantabun. Although Chantabun fell under the onslaught of Ha Tien's numerically superior forces, Phraya Phipit organised a successful counter-attack which eventually succeeded in forcing the invaders to withdraw.

In 1771 when Taksin attacked Ha Tien, Phraya Phipit commanded a fleet of 34 junks, 12 royal warships and four private ships with 1,431 men. When Taksin returned to Thonburi in 1772 he appointed Phraya Phipit (Chen Lian) as the Thai governor of Ha Tien with the new title of Phraya Rachasretthi-chin.

But peace did not last long. Shortly after, the city's former ruler Mac Thien Tu attacked and took back his domain from the Siamese army.

Chen Lian retreated to Kampot where newly subdued Cham governor Phraya Panglima helped with reinforcements. After three days the Chinese army of Chen Lian attacked and retook Ha Tien, massacring Mac Thien Tu's men on sight. Mac Thien Tu again fled to Vietnam.

A few months later, in February 1773, Mac Thien Tu sent a peace mission to Thonburi to negotiate the return of Ha Tien. King Taksin responded favourably and Chen Lian was recalled back to Thonburi. From a Burmese spy's map we learn that Phraya Rachasretthi-chin lived in a Teochew enclave just across the river from the king's palace.

After the death of King Taksin, he was responsible for effecting a smooth and peaceful relocation of the Teochew community to make way for the Grand Palace of the Chakri dynasty. Interestingly Chen Lian, the man who moved the Chinese out of the city and down to fields near *Wat Sampheng – the present-day Chinatown* – has faded from history, with no known ancestors.

However, at the end of his tumultuous life he stood vindicated. King Rama I reappointed Chen Lian as the governor of Ha Tien, the town he and his followers had bravely defended. Upon his death in 1787, Mac Thien Tu's son succeeded him as governor.

*Pimpraphai Bisalputra is the co-author of “A HISTORY OF THE THAI-CHINESE”.*

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/King-Taksin-and-Thailands-Chinese-roots-30297153.html

Note:
*Zheng Xin* 郑信｜鄭信 - The *King Taksin* or official reference: Taksin the Great (Thai: สมเด็จพระเจ้าตากสินมหาราช, Somdet Phra Chao Taksin Maha Rat or the *King of Thonburi.*

*Teochew* in standard Chinese language (Mandarin) is 潮洲 Cháozhōu - *Chaozhou or Teochew*, a town near Guangdong, with famous cuisine; the Chaozhou dialect is a variant of Minnan dialect 闽南语 or Southern Min, a Sinitic language spoken in southern Fujian and surrounding areas, incl. some areas in the eastern Guangdong.

The book: _*A History Of The Thai-Chinese*_










The book cover and review of "_*A History Of The Thai-Chinese*_"
authored by Jeffery Sng and Pimpraphai Bisalputra (2015)​
Will buy this book some day to learn more 


*Rama I or Phra Phutthayotfa Chulalok*, the founder of Rattanakosin Kingdom and the first monarch of the reigning *Chakri dynasty* of Siam (now Thailand) was the one of the most valuable generals of the King Taksin. Rama I was born from a Mon family, sharing lineage with the House of Sisowath where his father served in the royal court in the Kingdom of Ayutthaya, and had served King Taksin in wars against the Burmese Konbaung dynasty and helped him in the reunification of Siam. During this time he emerged as Siam's most powerful military leader. Thongduang was the first Somdet Chao Phraya, the highest rank the nobility could attain, equaled to that of royalty. In 1782, he took control of Siam and crowned himself as the monarch.

Vietnam and Cambodia
In *1784–1785*, the last of the Nguyễn Lords, *Nguyễn Ánh*, convinced Rama I to give him forces to attack Vietnam, which was then under the control of the *Tây Sơn brothers*. However, the joint Nguyễn-Siam fleet was destroyed in the *Battle of Rach Gam–Xoai Mut in the Mekong Delta region*. Nguyễn's appeal for Siamese assistance enabled the Siamese to exert considerable political influence over Nguyễn's court. Mac Tu Sinh, the son of Mạc Thiên Tứ and his Siamese wife, was raised among the Siamese, and held office as the governor of Hà Tiên until his death in 1787. Ngo Ma, a general of Siamese descent, was appointed as its acting governor in Mac's place.[9] Nguyễn Ánh also took refuge in Siam at the King's court waiting for the opportunities to defeat Tây Sơn. These episodes demonstrated Rama I's willingness to extend Siamese power beyond his Kingdom.

In Cambodia, King Reamraja of Cambodia was deposed in 1779 and the throne was given to his son, the young Ang Eng. However, the pro-Vietnamese policies of certain Cambodian aristocrats under Ang Eng alarmed Rama I. As a result, Rama I had Ang Eng captured and deported to Bangkok, where he became Rama's adopted son to implant pro-Siamese sentiments on him. Rama I also imposed Chao Phraya Abhaya Bhubet as the Regent of Cambodia.

*Nguyễn Ánh secretly left for Vietnam in 1787, leaving Rama I a note. Nguyen managed to recapture Saigon by 1788 and later ascended as Emperor Gia Long in 1802.[10] (Thai; Phrachao Vietnam Ya Long)*

In 1794, upon Ang Eng's majority, Rama I reinstalled him as the Narairaja III of Cambodia. The area around Siemreap and Battambang was annexed by Siam, and were governed by Abhaya Bhubet. However, Rama I allowed these territories to be ruled in accordance with Cambodian traditions.

Above lines are excerpt from Wiki's page about Rama I.


@sinait , just a friendly light suggestion, please save your breath from enlightening @kecho... a kind of special persona who's _*capable to create its own reality as well as its own version of history*_ in order to prop his version of stories  and indeed there are plenty of people of this kind around the globe, the kind who will only grasp the power of might, not the words.
I'm quite pleased that China under Xi is far more assertive than his predecessors, as well as growing far stronger than a decade ago. The time has come for action, not simply words. Or words need to be backed by the real strength. I still wonder should China follow the footsteps of the Exceptional Nation, the United States of America, whereas the simple principle is widely applied -- "Might Is Right"?  Time will divulge.
。。。

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## FlowerSummer

kecho said:


> What you said above ís propaganda òf China about China hístory. About that Kublai Khan had really conquered China. It was the first foreign dynasty (yuan) to rule all of China and lasted until 1368. In addition to Emperor of China, *Kublai Khan also claimed the title of Great Khan, supreme over the other successor khanates: the Chagatai, the Golden Horde, and the Ilkhanate*. As such, the Yuan Dynasty is created by Kublai was also as the *Empire of the Great Khan*. Kublai had taken the power in China with force and invaded in to Chia territory and won on chinese native people.
> 
> There history of Thailand and Vietnam is different, this is the internal matter of Thái and Việt people, Hua Yue native ethnic persons in Thailand and Vietnam, so they had their Thái and Việt citizenship first, before they could taken power in Thailand and Vietnam Kingdoms. Trần dynasty Vietnam is origin from Baiyue, no Han, has fought counter China Yuan invasion many time, to protect Independence of Vietnam. The matter is totally different to Yuan Mongolian in China.
> 
> About the disputation in SCS, China has fabricated about the history that China has discovered SCS by Zheng He voyage, in fact there was "Cohine (Vietnamese) Ocean" is stating clearly in China's map.
> 
> And also importance point of San Francisco Treaty is that : Claim of China in 1948 with "nine dashed line" is rejected by general voting.



LOL Kublai is foreigner but first thai king and many of viet kings are locals, wow the viet propaganda is strong LOL. Do you even know that Tang emperors claim the title khagan of heaven (天可汗) after they defeated the Turkic hordes? So is it china have the claim on all Turkic nations now eh?

Yuan was supreme over the other khanates? LOL! Kublai never control any of the others khanates, the mongol empire already gone when it fractured to 4 parts, and they are independent from each other. Otherwise, applying your logic, you viets are rule by china until the French came colonize you guys, because lots of viet kings are Chinese origin.

Your double standard really showing man, what difference between the history of china, Thailand and Vietnam rule by localized dynasty of foreign origin? Internal matter LOL, then yuan is also internal matter of china, and Kublai is a Mongolian ethnic Chinese. Kublai too have to identify himself as Chinese before he can claim the mandate of heaven and rule as a Chinese emperor.

And don't DODGE MY QUESTION ABOUT BRITISH MONARCH AND ANY TREATY STATED SCS ISLANDS BELONG TO VIETNAM, oh you cant, because all you have is just double standard POV and crappy history knowledge. So applying your logic, Britain is ruled by germans for centuries (so is viets because they colonize by french), and Vietnam is currently illegally occupying SCS islands because I do not recall any treaty stated SCS belongs to Vietnam.

LOL names doesn't implying ownership, Ming name SCS as cochine "ocean" is simply for ease to remember, not to mention Vietnam is rule by Ming China for decades before Ming pull out and grant viets limited freedom, albeit Vietnam is still a vassal state of china. To give you an example, the name new Zealand (Zeeland) originated from netherland, but british monarch is currently the head of state. While NZ is a part of british commonwealth, UK, Canada and Australia does not own new Zealand.

The most important point of san Francisco conference is, china did not participate this conference hence all "voting" results from this conference regarding china are illegal and will not be recognize by china. China will only recognize conference that china had participated. This san Francisco conference is just basically an earlier version of the SCS arbitration from just a while ago, illegal and nonsense.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cochine

FlowerSummer said:


> LOL Kublai is foreigner but first thai king and many of viet kings are locals, wow the viet propaganda is strong LOL. Do you even know that Tang emperors claim the title khagan of heaven (天可汗) after they defeated the Turkic hordes? So is it china have the claim on all Turkic nations now eh?
> 
> Yuan was supreme over the other khanates? LOL! Kublai never control any of the others khanates, the mongol empire already gone when it fractured to 4 parts, and they are independent from each other. Otherwise, applying your logic, you viets are rule by china until the French came colonize you guys, because lots of viet kings are Chinese origin.
> 
> Your double standard really showing man, what difference between the history of china, Thailand and Vietnam rule by localized dynasty of foreign origin? Internal matter LOL, then yuan is also internal matter of china, and Kublai is a Mongolian ethnic Chinese. Kublai too have to identify himself as Chinese before he can claim the mandate of heaven and rule as a Chinese emperor.
> 
> And don't DODGE MY QUESTION ABOUT BRITISH MONARCH AND ANY TREATY STATED SCS ISLANDS BELONG TO VIETNAM, oh you cant, because all you have is just double standard POV and crappy history knowledge. So applying your logic, Britain is ruled by germans for centuries (so is viets because they colonize by french), and Vietnam is currently illegally occupying SCS islands because I do not recall any treaty stated SCS belongs to Vietnam.
> 
> LOL names doesn't implying ownership, Ming name SCS as cochine "ocean" is simply for ease to remember, not to mention Vietnam is rule by Ming China for decades before Ming pull out and grant viets limited freedom, albeit Vietnam is still a vassal state of china. To give you an example, the name new Zealand (Zeeland) originated from netherland, but british monarch is currently the head of state. While NZ is a part of british commonwealth, UK, Canada and Australia does not own new Zealand.
> 
> The most important point of san Francisco conference is, china did not participate this conference hence all "voting" results from this conference regarding china are illegal and will not be recognize by china. China will only recognize conference that china had participated. This san Francisco conference is just basically an earlier version of the SCS arbitration from just a while ago, illegal and nonsense.



Apply your logic, new President of Taiwan is fractured from former KMT policy, has claimed that she is Taiwanese and so she has right to claim that Taiwan is independent state, not related to mainland China. Do you like it ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## FlowerSummer

kecho said:


> Apply your logic, new President of Taiwan is fractured from former KMT policy, has claimed that she is Taiwanese and so she has right to claim that Taiwan is independent state, not related to mainland China. Do you like it ?



Tsai does have the right to declare independence, but mainland will also has the right to invoke anti-secession law and declare military reunification on rogue province Taiwan.

As for whether she is Taiwanese or not that doesn't contradict with her Chinese nationality. I am a half-hokkien (real taiwanese) half Cantonese and I am a legit han Chinese national. If Tsai and her DAP want to declare independence they should choose another better reason, using geographical naming is not convincing at all.

Oh before you ask it, I will answer it for you. Yes Mongolia too can reunified with china if they wish so, although just like Kublai they need to convert themselves to Chinese first for such reunification to be legal and possible.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## TaiShang

*S.China Sea island construction strengthens defense, helps locals*

By Zhao Yusha Source:Global Times Published: 2017/12/24 20:43:22

*Island residents enjoy stable power supply, fresh water*

China has *accelerated construction and enhanced its military presence on South China Sea islands and shoals over the past year* as territorial tensions with neighboring countries are subsiding. 

China's construction projects in the South China Sea region *covered about 290,000 square meters in 2017*, including new facilities for underground storage, administrative buildings and large radar, according to a report released on nanhai.haiwainet.cn, a website jointly run by the National Marine Data and Information Service and the People's Daily Overseas Edition.

The report added that *China has reasonably expanded the area of South China Sea Islands*, in order to *enhance military defense capability within its sovereign scope and improve the lives of people living on the islands.*

One of the most outstanding achievements of South China Sea's island-building is the increase of civilian facilities in these islands. These *improve their public service capacity and help to maintain sovereignty over the islands*, Chen Xiangmiao, a research fellow with the National Institute for the South China Sea, told the Global Times. 

*Residents of Sansha city on Yongxing Island, South China's Hainan Province will have a more stable power supply once a floating nuclear power platform has been put into use. *People on some islands have installed seawater desalination facilities.

A fleet of offshore nuclear platforms, a civilian-military integration project, are reportedly to be commissioned before 2020, the Chinese news site thepaper.cn reported in November. 

The website's report said that *the defense capability on these islands has also been improved with more professional troops being stationed there.*

The number of students in Yongxing's school in Sansha, which is located in the southernmost point of China, has increased from six to 23 this year, said the report, adding that Sansha's government has also built libraries and stadiums to enrich people's lives. 

The size of some South China Sea Islands will be further expanded in the future with more dredging vessels, such as the Tiankun working on the land reclamation projects in the South China Sea region, said Chen, adding that a regional transportation network in South China Sea has also begun to shape up in recent years. Over 680 flights have taken off from Yongxing airport since the end of 2016, China News Service reported in December. 

*The island-building also helps China to fulfill its international responsibility, including maritime search and rescue, navigation safety and environment protection*, Chen added.

Sansha city for the first time held "sea-sky three-dimensional" joint search and rescue exercises in June, a move to improve Sansha's ability to respond to maritime rescue and ensure safe navigation of passing ships.

*Necessary military deployment*

However, some foreign media and governments continue to hype China's moves in this region, stirring unnecessary worries from neighboring countries and posing a threat to China's island-building activities, experts noted.

The US think tank Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative on December 14 published satellite photos, which allegedly were taken in the South China Sea region, showing airbases, radar towers and missile defense systems. "*Carrying out peaceful construction and deploying necessary defense equipment in our own territory is part of China's sovereignty," *said Liu Feng, a Hainan-based expert on the South China Sea. 

Liu added China's deployment of defense equipment is necessary for defense and control of the maritime situation. 

"*It's a necessary move for China to have defense equipment considering that we are now facing threats from the US and other countries because of the US fighters' frequent visits to the area and other countries constantly holding military drills in this region*," Liu said.

The relationship between China and other Southeast Asia countries, such as the Philippines, has calmed in recent years, providing a golden opportunity for China to upgrade these areas, said Chen, while urging China and other Southeast Asia countries to conduct more effective dialogue and cooperation on the South China Sea issue.

*Newspaper headline: China develops island bases*

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1081802.shtml

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cochine

FlowerSummer said:


> Tsai does have the right to declare independence, but mainland will also has the right to invoke anti-secession law and declare military reunification on rogue province Taiwan.
> 
> As for whether she is Taiwanese or not that doesn't contradict with her Chinese nationality. I am a half-hokkien (real taiwanese) half Cantonese and I am a legit han Chinese national. If Tsai and her DAP want to declare independence they should choose another better reason, using geographical naming is not convincing at all.
> 
> Oh before you ask it, I will answer it for you. Yes Mongolia too can reunified with china if they wish so, although just like Kublai they need to convert themselves to Chinese first for such reunification to be legal and possible.



when you accepted that Kublai had divorced from Mongolian Empire created new country, if it's legally, you have also to accept that Taiwan Hokkien people could do in the same manner to escape from rule of Han Chinese from mainland China and also legally to creat new state in Taiwan. Madam Tschai hás owned her pasport òf Taiwain, not China mainland nationality.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## FlowerSummer

kecho said:


> when you accepted that Kublai had divorced from Mongolian Empire created new country, if it's legally, you have also to accept that Taiwan Hokkien people could do in the same manner to escape from rule of Han Chinese from mainland China and also legally to creat new state in Taiwan. Madam Tschai hás owned her pasport òf Taiwain, not China mainland nationality.



It is not us (Chinese) that accepted Kublai partitioned yuan from mongol empire, but golden horde. It is the golden horde that failed to reclaim their lost land before they get destroyed. However we Chinese will never let such things happen to us, unification is the upmost importance for Chinese civilization.

LOL hokkien (min) is a sub-culture of han ethnic, there is no escape from the rule of han Chinese because the entire taiwan island has 95% of han Chinese. Also there is no such things as "Taiwan" passport, *the official name of state that ruling Taiwan province is Republic of China*. Taiwanese is just a regional name for Chinese that living in Taiwan province, there is no such country name Taiwan exist on this world.

And viets better don't play fire on issues about Chinese reunification, don't forgot there used to be a country commonly known as south Vietnam existed just a few decades ago, and viets better don't forgot which country help Vietnam reunification and which countries try to prevent Vietnam reunification.

I will stop here now as our discussions had derailed from the topic of this thread.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## UMNOPutra

*Now .... We know who is the real winner in the South China Sea ...
-----
Hainan No, 1 Satellite constellation system provides shield for South China Sea*
2018-01-04 11:06

The ChinaRS Geo-informatics Co., Ltd (ChinaRS) of the Chinese Academy of Sciences (CAS) announced the official launch of the "Hainan No. 1" satellite project on Dec.14, 2017. Hainan will launch its first satellite in 2019 and the Hainan satellite constellation system will be completed within the next four to five years.

According to the plan, there will be six optical satellites in the Hainan No. 1 project as part of the future Hainan satellite constellation, while the Sanya No. 1 project will have two hyper spectral satellites and two SAR satellites.

According to calculations, once the number of satellites in the constellation has increased to eight, the system will be able to achieve non-stop all-weather observations of all tropical and marine areas between the 30th south and north latitudes. The satellite constellation project will achieve full uninterrupted observations of the South China Sea.

Yang Tianliang, director of the project, said that the initiative was proposed by Guo Huadong, chief scientist of the project and a CAS academician.

"Hainan has the advantages of low latitude and wide range, so we need to clarify our thinking and formulate measures to find the right point of development," said Guo Huadong at the launching ceremony. Relying on Sanya's natural advantages, the CAS established a space station there in 2001 and added an institute within the following two years.

At present, the project has completed its overall demonstration and system design. The testing of satellite systems and ground systems will be gradually carried out starting from next year.

Launching low latitude satellites is of great significance to China.

On the global scale, more than 90 percent of the remote sensing satellites are located above the north and south poles, but have a lower frequency of observation in low latitude areas.

Through repeated simulations and projections, experts of the ChinaRS found that constellations of three satellites at low latitudes can achieve daily observations and multiple observations each day in key areas.

"This area covers not only all the countries on the Silk Road, but also 92 percent of the world's rice acreage. The system can help monitor the growth of rice but also can help marine dynamics research," said Guo.

More importantly, the Hainan satellite constellation will become a huge "skynet" covering the South China Sea.

"There are more than 50 islands, reefs and beaches scattered in the South China Sea. The monitoring and management of such vast oceans, the safeguarding of our national sovereignty and the building of a strong maritime province require the assistance of remote sensing technology," said Yang Tianliang. He added that the Hainan No.1 satellitescan monitor every island and reef and every ship of the South China Sea.

Li Xiaoming, member of the project, said at the launching ceremony that Hainan is the strategic base of the South China Sea and therefore developing a satellite system in Hainan is a responsibility and requirement of the strategy of strengthening China's maritime power. It can provide effective information assurance for China's South China Sea management and control.

Through the Hainan constellation system, China can gain a wide range of observational capabilities over the South China Sea and its surrounding areas. The system can help China realize real-time dynamic observation and meet the needs of development and effective control in the South China Sea.

In the meantime, accurate and rapid response can also be achieved in the event of an emergency.The system is a guarantee for China's strategy of becoming a maritime power.

"People will pay more and more attention to the sky in Hainan with the completion and use of the launch site in Wenchang. The launch today is just the beginning. I believe there will be more moves in the future," said Yang Tianliang.

http://www.ecns.cn/military/2018/01-...4/286964.shtml

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

Yongshu 永暑岛 of Today 1 Jan 2018

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## UMNOPutra

*PH plans to repair Pag-asa Island 'illegal', says Chinese envoy*
*Chiara Zambrano, ABS-CBN News*





The flag of the Philippines and China are raised at the bridge of China's guided missile destroyer Chang Chun (DDG 150). Chiara Zambrano, ABS-CBN News
They were supposed to dock in Manila, as most visiting fleets on a goodwill visit often do. But the Chinese People's Liberation Army Navy decided to move their port call to Davao City, hometown of the Philippine President who has taken a great liking to them.

On Sunday, in an impressive display of both troop discipline and military capability, three Chinese warships -- the guided missile destroyer Chang Chun (DDG 150), the guided missile frigate Jin Zhou (FFG 532), and replenishment ship Chao Hu (890) -- docked in Davao City's Sasa Wharf, with the men of the Chinese Navy manning the rail fully armed and impervious to the blinding heat of the sun.

"We especially choose the Philippines as the first port call for the oceanic voyage of the Task Group 150, and made a short-notice change of the destination from Manila to Davao to meet the schedule of His Excellency President Duterte," said Admiral Miao Hua, Political Commissar of the China People's Liberation Army Navy (PLA Navy).

Task Group 150's visit to the Philippines is the first time China has returned for a port call since the maritime row began. The last goodwill visit by the Chinese Navy was in 2010, two years before the navy standoff in Scarborough Shoal that marked the start of hostile relations between the Philippines and China over the West Philippine Sea.

The Philippine Navy says PLA Navy's Task Group 150 is based in Shanghai, China, and may not be the actual vessels patrolling the West Philippine Sea. However, it is these Chinese warships that - with complements from the China Coast Guard create the blockades against the Philippine Navy, chase down Filipino fishermen from traditional fishing ground, and are present in the 7 man-made military islands that China has built in the South China Sea.

Now that they come in the name of friendship, the Philippine Navy has no choice but to be the welcoming party for them.

http://news.abs-cbn.com/news/05/01/17/ph-plans-to-repair-pag-asa-island-illegal-says-chinese-envoy


----------



## TaiShang

*China’s new landing ship useful in island dispute: expert*

(Global Times) 08:16, January 11, 2018

Another Type 071 landing ship from the People's Liberation Army (PLA) Navy came into the limelight on Wednesday with military experts saying such ships could enhance military advantages in dealing with potential island disputes.

*With a maximum displacement of 29,000 tons, the 210-meter-long, 28-meter-wide Longhushanis the largest domestically designed amphibious warfare ship in China*, news site thepaper.cn reported on Wednesday.

Longhushanwas named after a mountain in Yingtan, Jiangxi Province. The civil affairs bureau of the East China city released a notice on January 2 in an effort to collect a song for the new ship from the public.

The song needs to represent thoughts of enhancing the PLA and display the image of Longhushan, according to the notice.

*"China is developing Type 071 ships to meet requirements of possible wars involved with islands in the future, which could help it gain advantages in solving disputes on islands as well as questions involved with Taiwan,"* Song Zhongping, a Chinese military expert, told the Global Times on Wednesday.

China owns four or five amphibious warfare ships, Song said.

Type 071 have helicopters that can land on islands from the sea.

The Type 071 can work with Type 075 amphibious assault ships and help the navy win control of the air during landing operations, according to Song.

"The Type 071 ships are equipped with defensive weaponry to deal with enemy attacks," said Song.

"It could also deliver the navy and the army to the target island. The expanding number of this type of ships could greatly enhance the PLA Navy's amphibious warfare capability," Song said.

Zhang Junshe, a senior research fellow at the PLA Naval Military Studies Research Institute, told the Global Times on Wednesday that aside from its use in landing operations, Type 071 ships have joined PLA Navy escort missions since the year of 2008.

"China has fewer landing ships than that of the US. And the PLA Navy is expanding the groups as it develops," Zhang said.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cochine

*Vietnam has legal basis to dismiss illegal joint exploration in East Sea*
_Vietnam has legal basis to dismiss any proposal for joint exploration illegally enabling violations to her continental shelf, said Dr. Nguyen Hong Thao, a Vietnamese lecturer, at a workshop on territorial disputes in the East Sea recently held in the UK._



_



_

_Dr. Nguyen Hong Thao, a professor from the Diplomacy Academy of Vietnam, speaks at the UK's workshop providing new approaches to disputes in the East Sea. _



The University of Oxford’s China Centre hosted the panel discussion entitled “New Approaches to the South China Sea Conflicts”, bringing together policymakers, lawyers in practice specializing in laws of the sea, experienced arbitrators, and leading academics from ASEAN nations, China, Canada, the US and Europe.

The conflicts in the East Sea pose a regional threat to peace, maritime security and economic progress in ASEAN, the littoral states along the sea and global trade. The five major claimants, including China, the Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia and Brunei, have ratified the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS). 

UNCLOS contains specific mechanisms for dispute resolution but the application of these mechanisms in the case of the East Sea disputes over the past time has not yet proven effective.

Some said that the full implementation and following of UNCLOS principles and international law by the countries having declared their sovereignty in the East Sea are fundamental requirements for tackling the disputes. 

As a speaker, Nguyen Hong Thao, a professor from the Diplomacy Academy of Vietnam, said Vietnam always supports a flexible approach to settlement of the disputes in accordance with international laws and her legitimate national interests.

Vietnam agrees with the Permanent Court of Arbitration’s final judgment in 2016 declaring that no features in the Spratly Archipelago could be considered an island and so are not entitled to a 200-nautical mile exclusive economic zone (EEZ) under UNCLOS, Thao noted.

The country backs finding an appropriate zone for joint exploration activities in compliance with UNCLOS and international laws, Thao stressed.-_VNA_

*Vietnam has legal basis to dismiss illegal joint exploration in East Sea*
_Vietnam has legal basis to dismiss any proposal for joint exploration illegally enabling violations to her continental shelf, said Dr. Nguyen Hong Thao, a Vietnamese lecturer, at a workshop on territorial disputes in the East Sea recently held in the UK._



_



_

_Dr. Nguyen Hong Thao, a professor from the Diplomacy Academy of Vietnam, speaks at the UK's workshop providing new approaches to disputes in the East Sea. _



The University of Oxford’s China Centre hosted the panel discussion entitled “New Approaches to the South China Sea Conflicts”, bringing together policymakers, lawyers in practice specializing in laws of the sea, experienced arbitrators, and leading academics from ASEAN nations, China, Canada, the US and Europe.

The conflicts in the East Sea pose a regional threat to peace, maritime security and economic progress in ASEAN, the littoral states along the sea and global trade. The five major claimants, including China, the Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia and Brunei, have ratified the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS). 

UNCLOS contains specific mechanisms for dispute resolution but the application of these mechanisms in the case of the East Sea disputes over the past time has not yet proven effective.

Some said that the full implementation and following of UNCLOS principles and international law by the countries having declared their sovereignty in the East Sea are fundamental requirements for tackling the disputes. 

As a speaker, Nguyen Hong Thao, a professor from the Diplomacy Academy of Vietnam, said Vietnam always supports a flexible approach to settlement of the disputes in accordance with international laws and her legitimate national interests.

Vietnam agrees with the Permanent Court of Arbitration’s final judgment in 2016 declaring that no features in the Spratly Archipelago could be considered an island and so are not entitled to a 200-nautical mile exclusive economic zone (EEZ) under UNCLOS, Thao noted.

The country backs finding an appropriate zone for joint exploration activities in compliance with UNCLOS and international laws, Thao stressed.-_VNA_

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Cybernetics

Subi Reef 渚碧礁 10 October, 2017 on going construction.








__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/960332220421599233

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## TaiShang

_China continues to distribute regional public goods in East Asia. Compare that with US warmongering and hitting commercial large vessels in open seas.

**_
*
China-led tsunami warning center for South China Sea region launched*
_
By Wang Mengzhen
9km to Beijing
2018-02-08_

China's maritime regulator said on Wednesday a UN-led tsunami warning center for the South China Sea region is now under trial operation in Beijing. 

The system will help issue alerts in the event of a major earthquake measuring magnitude-6 in the region. 

In the wake of the deadly Indian Ocean earthquake and tsunami in 2004, the United Nations built the Pacific Tsunami warning and mitigation system. This serves as an international network to exchange data for rapid tsunami detection. In 2011, China decided to build its own early-warning center under the UN framework.





China's State Oceanic Administration (SOA) announces the establishment of the tsunami warning center at a press conference. /CGTN Photo

After seven years of international coordination and updates, now the tsunami warning center has expanded to cover the main body of the South China Sea, the Sulu Sea and the Celebes Sea, spanning over a total of nine countries.

The past efforts saw coordination on forecasting skills such as tsunami scenario database, as well as real-time numerical modeling based on rapid CMT solution and GPU & OpenMP hybrid parallel computing technology. 

"We faced some challenges in international coordination during the process. It takes a great deal of efforts to incorporate and share massive data and resources among different countries and regions," said Yu Fujiang, director of the National Marine Environmental Forecasting Center (NMEFC). 

"Meanwhile, the international coordination meeting under the UN framework is a biennial event, so it is not easy for us to set up the warning center for the South China Sea region within a short time," he added.





UN-led tsunami warning center for the South China Sea region in Beijing /CGTN Photo

"A tsunami warning is a race against time. After the earthquake occurs, we must complete the entire warning procedure within 10 minutes. And, we can complete the whole task within 8 minutes," said Dr. Yuan Ye, head of the tsunami warning division, NMEFC.

"It is comparable with other warning systems such as the Northwest Pacific Tsunami Advisory Center (NWPTAC), the Japan Meteorological Agency (JMA) in regards to the delay time of issuing tsunami warning."

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Suika

USS Carl Vinson and JS Ise cruised together from the South China Sea up to the waters around Okinawa.

*SOUTH CHINA SEA* - The Carl Vinson Strike Group began a bilateral exercise with the Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force (JMSDF), March 11, during a regularly scheduled deployment in the Western Pacific.

Aircraft carrier USS Carl Vinson (CVN 70) and destroyer USS Wayne E. Meyer (DDG 108) are conducting combined operations with Japanese destroyer JS Ise (DDH 182) to enhance maritime interoperability between longstanding allies.

“Strong maritime partnerships maintain security, stability and prosperity, which the Indo-Pacific region has enjoyed for more than 70 years,” said Rear Adm. John Fuller, the strike group commander. “Collaborating with a close maritime partner promotes regional cooperation.”

As part of the exercise, four JMSDF liaison officers have embarked Carl Vinson to support combined operations. The operations will include formation steaming as well as anti-submarine and air-defense training. Ise will also conduct a replenishment-at-sea with Carl Vinson.

The 646-foot Japanese destroyer displaces 18,000 tons and sails with three Y (60 K/J) helicopters. The ship’s primary missions include anti-submarine warfare, mine countermeasure, logistics, and search and rescue.

The Carl Vinson Strike Group also includes Carrier Air Wing 2 and a complement of more than 70 aircraft, Destroyer Squadron 1 and guided-missile destroyer USS Michael Murphy (DDG 112).

Michael Murphy conducted a passing exercise with the French frigate FNS Vendémiaire while operating in the Western Pacific and South China Sea in January and February. Sailors practiced communication and shiphandling techniques.

The strike group completed a historic port visit to Vietnam, March 9, which marked the first time an aircraft carrier visited in more than 40 years. 
http://www.cpf.navy.mil/news.aspx/110461





http://www.sankei.com/politics/photos/180316/plt1803160030-p4.html





http://www.sankei.com/politics/photos/180316/plt1803160030-p3.html





https://www.dvidshub.net/image/4221548/180314-n-mt837-0085





https://www.dvidshub.net/image/4221185/180314-n-mt837-0018





https://www.dvidshub.net/image/4221383/180314-n-jn391-0022





https://www.dvidshub.net/image/4221530/180315-n-lk571-0025

























__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10156228189432402


----------



## terranMarine

*Exclusive: Satellite images reveal show of force by Chinese navy in South China Sea
*
HANOI/HONG KONG (Reuters) - Dozens of Chinese naval vessels are exercising this week with an aircraft carrier in a large show of force off Hainan island in the South China Sea, satellite images obtained by Reuters show.






The images, provided by Planet Labs Inc, confirm a Chinese carrier group has entered the vital trade waterway as part of what the Chinese navy earlier described as combat drills that were part of routine annual exercises. 

The Liaoning carrier group last week traversed the Taiwan Strait, according to the Taiwanese defense ministry. 

The photos, taken on Monday, show what appear to be *at least 40 ships and submarines flanking the carrier Liaoning in what some analysts described as an unusually large display of the Chinese military’s growing naval might.* 

Sailing in a line formation more suited to visual propaganda than hard military maneuvers, the flotilla was headed by what appeared to be submarines, with aircraft above. 

Jeffrey Lewis, a security expert at the California-based based Middlebury Institute of Strategic Studies, said the images showed the first confirmation that the carrier was joining the drills. 

“It’s an incredible picture,” he said. “That’s the big news to me. Confirmation that, yes, the carrier participated in the exercise.” 

While the Liaoning has previously entered the South China Sea as part of drills in uncontested training grounds south of Hainan, its annual exercises are closely watched by regional and international powers eyeing Beijing’s growing military might. 

It is unclear where the flotilla was headed, or how long operations will last. China’s defense ministry did not immediately respond to a faxed request for comment. 

Collin Koh, a security expert at Singapore’s S. Rajaratnam School of International Studies, described the deployment as unusual for its size and scope. 

“Judging by the images, it does seem they are keen to show that elements of the South Sea Fleet are able to routinely join up with the carrier strike group from Dalian in the north,” he said. 

“It does seem they want to show inter-fleet interoperability - something the (Chinese) navy has been quietly working on for some time.” 

*Chinese naval and coast guard forces have expanded rapidly in recent years and now patrol the vast swathes of the South China Sea*, but little is known about their combat readiness and co-ordination. 

Koh said as well as the destroyers, frigates and submarines that would ordinarily support a carrier, the flotilla appeared to include a large oiler for re-supply as well as smaller corvettes and possibly fast attack catamarans. 

“While it highlights an extensive ability to deploy, we are still left to guess at the PLAN’s combat readiness,” Koh said. 

As well as Vietnam, China’s claims in the South China Sea are disputed by the Philippines, Malaysia and Brunei while Taiwan also has claims. 

The exercises come amid fresh signs of tension in the resource-rich waterway, with *Vietnam recently halting oil exploration off its coast by Spanish firm Repsol under pressure from Beijing.* 

Beijing also objected to a so-called freedom of navigation patrol by a U.S. warship last week close to one of its artificial islands in the Spratlys archipelago further south. 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...chinese-navy-in-south-china-sea-idUSKBN1H3135

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## dy1022



Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## sweetgrape

dy1022 said:


>


Glad for Chinese to see these Monster be stronger, don't just feed them with ammunition, but blood can make them more powerful.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## ashok321

*China Has Military Jamming Gear on Spratlys, U.S. Says*

*In Trade Fight, China Today Differs From 1980s Japan*

*Europe Caught in the Middle as Trump Threatens China*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cirr

*Hainan to build super-sized fish farms*

Source: Xinhua| 2018-04-12 21:53:32|Editor: Liangyu

HAIKOU, April 12 (Xinhua) -- *China's southern-most island province of Hainan is to build three large fish farm cages, each as big as seven standard soccer fields.*

The provincial government of Hainan Thursday signed an agreement with China Shipbuilding Industry Corp. on the deep sea fish farm equipment to be installed off the coast of Lingshui Li Autonomous County in southern Hainan.

*With a diameter of 110 meters and a depth of 75 meters*, the fish farm platform will measure 250,000 cubic meters. Each cage can hold about 6,000 tonnes of fish, 500 to 600 times as much as standard deep water cages.

The deep water fish farming will not be affected by the busy ship traffic. The netted cages can also withstand huge waves triggered by winds with speeds of up to 220 kilometers per hour, the two said.

*The cages will have the highest level of automation in China as they will automatically provide feed and monitor the fish.*

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2018-04/12/c_137106802.htm

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## cochine

*President Duterte approves Navy’s submarine program*

PUBLISHED: July 30, 2018
President Rodrigo Duterte has approved the submarine program of Philippine Navy, Department of National Defense (DND) spokesman Director Arsenio Andolong said.

“Well, the proposed submarine program at least was given a go by the president. The Philippine Navy has begun studying its doctrines and planning its procurement,” Andolong said as quoted by Manila Bulletin.

He noted that the approval of the President is significant because it shows political will.

“He wants to push our Armed Forces to the forefront, as equal with our neighbors,” he said.

“The President likes the idea of us procuring our own submarines. Sakanya, kapag inaprubahan niya kami nahahanap ng paraan kung paano ito gagawin,” he said. “Ngayon hindi sure, malamang hindi pa siya ma [complete] sa termino ni President Duterte. But at least the Navy has begun studies of it kasi inaprubahan niya ang wish list. Pero pag-uusapan pa kung papaano popondohan, saan kukuha, at anong klase.”

Sources: https://news.mb.com.ph/2018/07/30/duterte-okays-afps-submarine-program/; http://www.pna.gov.ph/articles/1043069


----------



## cochine

Last update 00:28 | 11/08/2018
 


*Vietnam resolutely opposes China’s recent activities in Hoang Sa
*
_The Ministry of Foreign Affairs’ spokeswoman Le Thi Thu Hang on August 10 voiced Vietnam’s resolute objection to China’s recent activities in Hoang Sa (Paracel) archipelago and reiterated Vietnam’s sovereignty over the islands._


_



_

_Spokeswoman of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs Le Thi Thu Hang _


Hang made the remarks in response to reporters’ questions regarding China’s recent activities in the area, including celebrations marking six years of the so-called “Sansha city” and installing wave monitoring devices on Phu Lam island. Meanwhile, China Central Television’s (CCTV) children’s channel recently organised a reality TV show for kids on the Hoang Sa archipelago. The Sun Yat-sen University of China also conducted a series of scientific surveys on the Hoang Sa islands.

Hang said Vietnam has sufficient legal foundations and historical evidence affirming its sovereignty over Hoang Sa and Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelagoes in line with international law.

“The aforementioned actions of China have not only seriously violated Vietnam’s sovereignty over the Hoang Sa and Truong Sa archipelagos but also run counter to the agreement on basic principles guiding the settlement of sea-related issues between the Socialist Republic of Vietnam and the People’s Republic of China; not conformed to the important common perceptions of the two countries’ senior leaders on well controlling sea-related disagreements; as well as disobeyed the solid development trend of the bilateral relations.”

She added that these actions are also “contrary to the spirit and content of the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the East Sea (DOC) and do not benefit the negotiations between ASEAN and China on a Code of Conduct in the East Sea (COC), as well as the maintaining of an environment of peace, stability, cooperation, and development in the East Sea and the region.”

“Vietnam resolutely opposes these actions and demands China to immediately stop the aforementioned activities; respect Vietnam’s sovereignty over the Hoang Sa and Truong Sa archipelagoes; seriously implement the agreement on basic principles guiding the settlement of sea-related issues between the Socialist Republic of Vietnam and the People’s Republic of China, along with the DOC; not continue actions that complicate the situation; and practically and actively contribute to developing the friendship and comprehensive cooperation between Vietnam and China for the sake of peace, stability, and cooperation in the East Sea and the region,” the spokeswoman said.

A representative of the Vietnamese Ministry of Foreign Affairs met with a representative of the Chinese Embassy in Vietnam to talk about this issue, Hang added.–VNA

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cirr

*Hainan eyes new satellite network*

2018-08-16 09:20:15 China Daily Editor : Li Yan

*The southernmost island province of Hainan is preparing a satellite network that is expected to enable China to conduct effective and efficient surveillance over the South China Sea.*

Design work for the Hainan Earth-Observation Satellite Constellation, a project headed by the Sanya Institute of Remote Sensing in Hainan and sponsored by the provincial government, has begun at the institute and by its contractors.

The first in the constellation, a Hainan 1 optical satellite, is scheduled to be launched in the second half of 2019, according to a statement from the institute.

The statement said *the constellation will have 10 satellites that will be launched in four stages by the end of 2021. First, three Hainan 1 optical satellites are scheduled to enter orbit in 2019. The following year, three Hainan 1 satellites and two Sanya 1 multispectral remote-sensing satellites will be launched. In 2021, two Sansha 1 synthetic aperture radar satellites are expected to be sent into space.*

At a meeting in Sanya on Tuesday, Chinese space experts reviewed and approved technical plans for the first four Hainan 1 satellites.

According to the institute, each Hainan 1 will weigh 50 kilograms, and will operate in a low-Earth orbit 500 kilometers above Earth and move at 7.9 km per second.

Yang Tianliang, director of the institute and chief designer of the constellation, said in a phone interview on Wednesday that Hainan 1 satellites will carry two types of instruments - cameras and identification technology.

"The combination of cameras and automatic identification systems will allow us not only to monitor ships lawfully sailing in the South China Sea, but also to detect and track illegally operating ones," Yang said.

Automatic identification systems can receive and process signals concerning positioning data, courses of vessels as well as speed readings sent by a moving ship. The technology is often mounted on ships and satellites and assists vessel operators in understanding maritime traffic situations while also helping maritime authorities to track and monitor vessel movements.

Yang said Hainan administers hundreds of islands and reefs in the South China Sea, so it requires the assistance of a space-based platform to monitor these territories and surrounding waters.

He also noted that once the satellite network becomes fully operational by 2021, it will be able to cover the entire South China Sea and will be very helpful in a wide range of sectors, such as marine transportation, fisheries, island management and maritime search and rescue.

Gao Enyu, a manager from Hainan MinoSpace Technology Co, was quoted by China News Service as saying on Tuesday that researchers optimized Hainan 1's cameras to make them suitable for monitoring large expanses of waters.

He added that the satellite is capable of detecting and identifying all midsize and large vessels.

Gao's company is in charge of the research and development of some of Hainan 1's equipment.

http://www.ecns.cn/news/politics/2018-08-16/detail-ifyxccrz0965419.shtml

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## cochine

Last update 10:14 | 01/08/2018
 


*Communication project raises awareness on sea, island sovereignty
*
_Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc has recently approved a project to raise public awareness of safeguarding sovereignty and sustainable development of Vietnam’s seas and islands._


The project will be carried out in centrally-run cities and provinces, countries which are home to large communities of Vietnamese people and those with traditional friendly ties with Vietnam.

It aims to update Party guidelines and State laws on Vietnamese seas and islands via the mass media.

Besides domestic policies and laws, major contents include international laws, bilateral and multilateral cooperation agreements with countries and international organisations regarding seas and islands, historical and legal evidence affirming Vietnam’s sovereignty over Truong Sa (Spratly) and Hoang Sa (Paracel) archipelagoes.




The project also hopes to popularise economic development in seas and islands, especially construction of coastal economic, industrial and processing zones, among others.-_VNA_

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## JSCh

*PH Navy warship runs aground in Palawan*
One of the Philippine Navy's most capable warships, BRP Gregorio Del Pilar, runs aground in the vicinity of Hasa-Hasa Shoal
*Carmela Fonbuena*
@carmelafonbuena
Published 11:09 PM, August 30, 2018
Updated 11:11 PM, August 30, 2018




BRP GREGORIO DEL PILAR. Photo of the BRP Gregorio del Pilar from Wikipedia, as taken from the Philippine Navy Official Facebook page.

MANILA, Philippines – One of the Philippine Navy's most capable warships ran aground in Palawan Wednesday night, August 29, according to the military.

The Western Command is conducting operations to retrieve the cutter that the navy acquired from the US Coast Guard in 2011.

"Reports have reached the General Headquarters that the BRP Del Pilar (FF15) has ran aground in the vicinity of Hasa-hasa Shoal, West Philippine Sea late in the evening of August 29, 2018," said Colonel Noel Detoyato of the military's Public Affairs Office.

"All afloat vessels in the Western Command area have already been mobilized to conduct assessment, retrieve the aground vessel, and return her to safe harbor, and assist all personnel aboard BRP Del Pilar," Detoyato said. – *Rappler.com*


----------



## cochine

Last update 16:26 | 13/07/2018

*Arbitral ruling on East Sea will have long-term impacts in dispute resolution: expert*
_VietNamNet Bridge – Ha Anh Tuan, Director of the Centre for Policy Analysis under the Institute for Bien Dong Maritime Studies, writes to Viet Nam News on the legal implications of the arbitral tribunal’s ruling and its impacts two years on._







_Dr Ha Anh Tuan, Director of the Centre for Policy Analysis under the Institute for Bien Dong Maritime Studies at the Diplomatic Academy of Viet Nam._



On July 12, 2016, the Tribunal established under Annex VII to the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS 1982) delivered a historical verdict in the arbitration instituted by the Philippines against China. The ruling has had long-term implications to the management and settlement of disputes in the East Sea (internationally called the South China Sea).

Among the five conclusions of the arbitral tribunal, the two decisions most relevant to Vietnam’s national security concerns are about the legality of China’s nine-dash line claim and the legal status of features in the Spratlys. With regards to the nine-dash line claim, the Award concludes that “there was no legal basis for China to claim historic rights to resources within the sea areas falling within the ‘nine-dash line’”. Concerning the legal status of the features in the East Sea, the Tribunal holds that none of the Spratly Islands are capable of generating extended maritime zones and “the Spratly Islands cannot generate maritime zones collectively as a unit.” Apart from these two points, the Tribunal also concludes that China’s actions in the East Sea have caused irreparable harm to the marine environment and aggravated the dispute between the parties.

The ruling provides strong means to settle maritime disputes in the region. By concluding that no features in the Spratlys is capable of generating extended maritime zone, the Award significantly narrows down the geographical scope of disputes between parties in the Spratlys area. It also states clearly that China’s excessive claim in the East Sea does not have legal foundation and China’s activities in the region, including the construction of artificial islands in the features it occupied in the Spratlys is against the international law.

China rejected the legitimacy of the court and officially stated it will neither recognise the Award nor comply with it. However, according to international law, the Award is “final and without appeal” and it will become a source of international law. The Award, therefore, has long-term implications to the peaceful settlement of disputes in the East Sea.

*Unlawful occupation*

Much has been said about China’s attempts to change the status quo by civilising and militarising artificially developed islands in the East Sea.

On another note, recently, the Hainan Province’s government – which is China’s administration over the islands it claims – has invited individuals to develop uninhabited islands under contracts lasting as long as 50 years.

What Hainan has recently published does not involve any features in the Hoang Sa (Paracels) and Truong Sa (Spratlys), however, we need to keep a close watch on this move as the scope of it may be expanded in the future.

According to international law, regardless of what a state does in an island, the island will not be seen as their territory if it is unlawfully occupied and other parties protest it. With regards to artificial islands, they will not be entitled to 200-nautical mile Exclusive Economic Zones (EEZ).

However, for power politics, major powers often try to gain de facto advantages on the ground. After the tribunal’s ruling, China has carried out lot of measures on both the legal front and on the ground to undermine the ruling.

Legally speaking, China in the first place has been adamant in its ‘three-nos’ policy (non-recognition of the tribunal’s jurisdiction, non-acceptance and non-compliance of the award). Second, China has been advancing a new ‘lawfare tactic’, the ‘Four Sha’ claim is an example. By grouping four groups of islands in the East Sea namely Spratly, Paracels, Pratas, and Macclesfield Bank, China wants to claim extended maritime rights surrounding this chain of archipelagos. By doing so, China wants to bypass the ruling because it doesn’t mention directly the Spratly archipelago. Third, earlier in the year, Chinese legal experts have recently published an extensive 500-page “A Critical Study” on the arbitration award by the Chinese Society of International Law, which basically attempts to discredit the ruling and proposes their own new concepts.

On the ground, China continues to advance its economic activities, including tourism and fisheries development. Beijing is also increasing patrols and installing various surveillance systems to monitor the region.

*East Sea: an international and multilateral issue*

Vietnam has strong legal basis for its claims in the Spratlys and Paracels. Vietnamese high ranking officials have several times stated that Hanoi will use every peaceful means to protect Vietnam sovereignty in the East Sea, including the use of international law. In principle, Vietnam had said it respects the law and the foreign ministry announced that Vietnam welcomed the arbitral tribunal’s award.

Internationalisation of the East Sea issue was not Vietnam’s prime intention. The nature of the issue itself is international and hence, needs multilateral efforts – aside from the six claimant countries, we cannot discount the influence and involvement of other outside major players such as the US, EU or Japan, India in this issue.

The tension in the East Sea is not because of the implementation of international law but because international law has not been fully respected.





_A view of the Tien Nu (Pigeon) Reef of Truong Sa (Spratly) Archipelago, Vietnam. — VNA/VNS Photo Quang Quyet_



*Central role of ASEAN*

Recently, the Philippines set aside the Award in an attempt to foster bilateral relations with China, especially in terms of economic co-operation, and the Award will have long term impacts on the management and settlement of disputes in the East Sea. What has currently happened in the reality does not reflect the international law. As I mentioned earlier, it reflects the lack of full implementation of international law. That’s why we need to adhere to the principles of international law in managing and solving disputes in the South China Sea. I have a strong belief that the Award will continue to be referred to in the coming years as a source of dispute settlement in the region.

ASEAN functions on the basis of consensus principle and some ASEAN members do not have direct interest in the South China Sea, so they may not want ASEAN to raise the East Sea issue in ASEAN documents. Noting that ASEAN is not a suitable mechanism to settle sovereignty disputes between states, we should not over-expect what it can do with East Sea disputes. However, to maintain its centrality in handling regional affairs, this organisation should take its role in the East Sea disputes seriously. This will be an important test case in the future.

*Vietnam-initiated lawsuit not ruled out*

Vietnam stress on the importance of peaceful means in dealing with maritime disputes in the East Sea on the principle of mutual respect and in accordance with international law. Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Foreign Affairs Pham Binh Minh has several times said the country would protect its sovereignty “by all peaceful means in line with international law, including the UNCLOS 1982.” Going in to a court is a peaceful way, so it should not be ruled out as one choice in the future. 

However, going to court is not the only peaceful option. In fact, countries often prioritise diplomatic solutions as diplomacy allows agreement between concerned parties. So, in the East Sea disputes, Vietnam sees negotiations as the first priority in handling maritime disputes.

Hanoi has managed to reach some agreements with regional countries, including Malaysia, Indonesia, and Thailand in settling maritime disputes. Vietnam also signed comprehensive agreements with China in delimiting the Gulf of Tonkin and fostering fishery co-operation in this region. That agreement is the first of this kind China has entered into with another country when dealing with maritime disputes.

Although maritime disputes in the East Sea is much more complicated than those in the Gulf of Tonkin, the Gulf of Tonkin agreement between China and Vietnam will be a clear example of how political determination allows maritime dispute settlement and co-operation between states.

_Source: VNS_

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cochine

__ https://www.facebook.com/


----------



## Viva_Viet

CN economy is so bad now, so they dont have enough money to keep playing water cannon game wt VN anymore. 

CN ships got sprayed by VN guard ship in this month Apr

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

*South China Sea Conflit*

Date 14 March 1988
Chigua Reef
Territorial changes:
*Chinese retook Chigua Reef*
Belligerents



China



Vietnam

*Casualties and losses
China 0 killed =VS= Vietnam 64 killed 
China 1 wounded =VS= Vietnam 11 wounded
China 0 captured =VS= Vietnam 9 captured
China 0 armed transporters sunk =VS= Vietnam 2 armed transporters sunk
China 0 landing craft destroyed =VS= Vietnam 1 landing craft destroyed*

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Chinese_domination_of_Vietnam

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Chinese_domination_of_Vietnam

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Chinese_domination_of_Vietnam

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Chinese_domination_of_Vietnam

2)
No matter what kind of tank the VN army buys, it is not a threat to China(The strength of the VN army and the strength of the Chinese PLA army are not at the same level).

Little Vietnam, first to build an atomic bomb, and then to say equality with China!
Ohhhh,W*ait, your new owner, the United States, will never allow you to possess nuclear weapons*. Then what else can you do,little Vietnamese?





Ho Chi Min,* please don't kiss too much. I am straight.


Viva_Viet said:



CN economy is so bad now, so they dont have enough money to keep playing water cannon game wt VN anymore. 

CN ships got sprayed by VN guard ship in this month Apr 














Click to expand...

South China Sea Conflit

Date 14 March 1988
Chigua Reef
Territorial changes:
Chinese retook Chigua Reef
Belligerents



China



Vietnam

Casualties and losses
China 0 killed =VS= Vietnam 64 killed 
China 1 wounded =VS= Vietnam 11 wounded
China 0 captured =VS= Vietnam 9 captured
China 0 armed transporters sunk =VS= Vietnam 2 armed transporters sunk
China 0 landing craft destroyed =VS= Vietnam 1 landing craft destroyed

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Chinese_domination_of_Vietnam

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Chinese_domination_of_Vietnam

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Chinese_domination_of_Vietnam

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Chinese_domination_of_Vietnam

2)
No matter what kind of tank the VN army buys, it is not a threat to China(The strength of the VN army and the strength of the Chinese PLA army are not at the same level).

Little Vietnam, first to build an atomic bomb, and then to say equality with China!
Ohhhh,Wait, your new owner, the United States, will never allow you to possess nuclear weapons. Then what else can you do,little Vietnamese?





Ho Chi Min, please don't kiss too much. I am straight.*


----------



## Viva_Viet

@waz that @Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA trolling here again , pls send warning to him. he really wants to ruin the Far east section.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

Viva_Viet said:


> @waz that @Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA trolling here again , pls send warning to him. he really wants to ruin the Far east section.


1)I am merely sending wikipedia source infos,
2)not like you little Viva_Viet, call me barking dog!!When the Vietnamese have nothing to say, they can only carry out personal attacks on others!
Who is ruining the Far east section really?!
Are you denying that you called me Chinese barking dog multiple times?

@waz please ban
*Viva_Viet*
this guy called and is still calling me barking dogs multiple times!

Proof
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/viet...e-run-crazily-to-chinese-border.595051/page-3



*Viva_VietSENIOR MEMBER*




Messages:
3,468
Joined:
Jun 26, 2011
Ratings:
+0 / 1,392 / -3
↑
_Ho Chi Minh made a mistake, this is human affair. He did not know that, Mao is enemy of Socialist Communist parties in Cold War.
Adam is just a barking dog, only sit behind the computer and bark, and will knee down, begging for mercy like his dad in 2014 conflitc

insulting words will be in ignore list <3<3<3_


----------



## cochine

Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA said:


> *South China Sea Conflit*
> 
> Date 14 March 1988
> Chigua Reef
> Territorial changes:
> *Chinese retook Chigua Reef*
> Belligerents
> 
> 
> 
> China
> 
> 
> 
> Vietnam
> 
> *Casualties and losses*
> *China 0 killed =VS= Vietnam 64 killed *
> *China 1 wounded =VS= Vietnam 11 wounded*
> *China 0 captured =VS= Vietnam 9 captured*
> *China 0 armed transporters sunk =VS= Vietnam 2 armed transporters sunk*
> *China 0 landing craft destroyed =VS= Vietnam 1 landing craft destroyed*
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Chinese_domination_of_Vietnam
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Chinese_domination_of_Vietnam
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Chinese_domination_of_Vietnam
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Chinese_domination_of_Vietnam
> 
> 2)
> No matter what kind of tank the VN army buys, it is not a threat to China(The strength of the VN army and the strength of the Chinese PLA army are not at the same level).
> 
> Little Vietnam, first to build an atomic bomb, and then to say equality with China!
> Ohhhh,W*ait, your new owner, the United States, will never allow you to possess nuclear weapons*. Then what else can you do,little Vietnamese?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ho Chi Min,* please don't kiss too much. I am straight.
> 
> South China Sea Conflit
> 
> Date 14 March 1988
> Chigua Reef
> Territorial changes:
> Chinese retook Chigua Reef
> Belligerents
> 
> 
> 
> China
> 
> 
> 
> Vietnam
> 
> Casualties and losses
> China 0 killed =VS= Vietnam 64 killed
> China 1 wounded =VS= Vietnam 11 wounded
> China 0 captured =VS= Vietnam 9 captured
> China 0 armed transporters sunk =VS= Vietnam 2 armed transporters sunk
> China 0 landing craft destroyed =VS= Vietnam 1 landing craft destroyed
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Chinese_domination_of_Vietnam
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Chinese_domination_of_Vietnam
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Chinese_domination_of_Vietnam
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Chinese_domination_of_Vietnam
> 
> 2)
> No matter what kind of tank the VN army buys, it is not a threat to China(The strength of the VN army and the strength of the Chinese PLA army are not at the same level).
> 
> Little Vietnam, first to build an atomic bomb, and then to say equality with China!
> Ohhhh,Wait, your new owner, the United States, will never allow you to possess nuclear weapons. Then what else can you do,little Vietnamese?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ho Chi Min, please don't kiss too much. I am straight.*



China changed her friend to American from 1972 in time of Vietnam - America War. China is bad boy.







China in 1979.





and 1984 China invaded into Island of Vietnam in East Vietnam Sea, Chinese had killed logistic people were working in Gac Ma rocks belong to Vietnam. China is the dirty aggressor !


----------



## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

cochine said:


> China changed her friend to American from 1972 in time of Vietnam - America War. China is bad boy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China in 1979.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and 1984 China invaded into Island of Vietnam in East Vietnam Sea, Chinese had killed logistic people were working in Gac Ma rocks belong to Vietnam. China is the dirty aggressor !


I can tolerate your words,but your camarad,Viva-Viet,who is calling other barking dog here and there,no thanks.


----------



## Viva_Viet

Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA said:


> I can tolerate your words,but your camarad,Viva-Viet,who is calling other barking dog here and there,no thanks.


I will report u to Mod till u get ban for spamming on far east section

U r not allowed to keep breaking forum rules. U call us mokey, so we call u barking dog. fair and square.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

Viva_Viet said:


> I will report u to Mod till u get ban for spamming on far east section
> 
> U r not allowed to keep breaking forum rules.


*That is exactly what I want say to you! *

Keep call me barking dog please!!


----------



## samsara

The strong words and diligent posts by some supporters of the VIE here will NOT alter the reality in the South China Sea.

Whether one likes it or not, as a matter of reality China will rule the South China Sea, and not even the Uncle Sam can prevent such reality, let alone the small nations like VIE (or PHI in the lesser case). 

SIZE, STRENGTH, RESOURCES are very real... one cannot lie in this regard, and no amount of words will alter the reality! In no way the VIE can compete with China in this regard. Reality is simply a bitch!!! 

However, if some members wish to have the stronger or louder words here to feel better on paper, or merely to get some tranquilizer… then be my guess, just go ahead 


*“The dogs bark while the caravan is passing by.”*

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cochine

samsara said:


> The strong words and diligent posts by some supporters of the VIE here will NOT alter the reality in the South China Sea.
> 
> Whether one likes it or not, as a matter of reality China will rule the South China Sea, and not even the Uncle Sam can prevent such reality, let alone the small nations like VIE (or PHI in the lesser case).
> 
> SIZE, STRENGTH, RESOURCES are very real... one cannot lie in this regard, and no amount of words will alter the reality! In no way the VIE can compete with China in this regard. Reality is simply a bitch!!!
> 
> However, if some members wish to have the stronger or louder words here to feel better on paper, or merely to get some tranquilizer… then be my guess, just go ahead
> 
> 
> *“The dogs bark while the caravan is passing by.”*



China signed in to UNCLOS 1982, so China has to obey the rules of International laws.

Regretfully, only Uncle Sam, master of China in cold war could, who could stop expansion mentality of Chinese.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viva_Viet

CN debt is too high now, it explain why CN coast guard ships have No fuel to keep competing wt VN guard ship in SCS(east VN sea) any more.

CN fishing boats: help help ! VN guard ships spraying at us, help plsssss

CN coast guard : Chairman XI, send me money to buy fuel for the guard ships, our fishing boats need helpppp

Chairman Xi : Huhu. I'm broke,the economy is too bad now, no money for fuel huhuhu 


---------------
CN Out of the $244 trillion, *government debt was tallied at $65.2 trillion*, non-financial corporate debt stood at $72.9 trillion dollars and financial sector debt was $60 trillion dollars, while households owe $46.1 trillion dollars.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/samsung-electronics-vietnamese-subsidiaries-thriving.612717/

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Nilgiri

Viva_Viet said:


> @waz that @Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA trolling here again , pls send warning to him. he really wants to ruin the Far east section.



He is just mad bout 2023 bro

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viva_Viet

Nilgiri said:


> He is just mad bout 2023 bro


Yeah, due to tax cut cos CN economy is so bad, so now CN fishing boats have to run as fast as possible when VN coast guard spraying at them cos CN guard ships have no money to buy fuel, corrupted/coward officers have no salary 

what a pathetic big nation

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## 艹艹艹



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## cochine

*U.S. sends warship near man-made islets in South China Sea's Spratly chain*
*BY JESSE JOHNSON*






The United States has sailed a warship near two of China’s man-made islands in the disputed South China Sea, the latest in a series of recent moves by the U.S. military in the strategic waterway and in the diplomatic arena amid rising tensions between Washington and Beijing.

The guided-missile destroyer USS Decatur on Sunday sailed within 12 nautical miles (22 km) of Gaven and Johnson reefs in the Spratly Islands as part of what the U.S. Navy calls “freedom of navigation operations” (FONOPs). The operations are meant to enforce the right of free passage in international waters under international law. The two islets are also claimed by Taiwan, Vietnam and the Philippines.





Both outposts are among seven in the Spratly chain that China has built up, with some transformed from so-called high-tide elevations entitled to 12 nautical mile territorial seas into garrisons with massive radar installations, scores of buildings and military-grade runways.

A U.S. defense official told The Japan Times that the Decatur conducted the freedom of navigation operation under the right of “innocent passage.”

International law permits foreign warships to transit a country’s territorial waters on the basis of innocent passage without seeking prior permission, and the Chinese Navy has exercised that right off Alaska, among other locations.

However, Beijing demands that foreign naval vessels seek its permission before transiting Chinese territorial waters. The U.S. Navy regularly conducts FONOPs to challenge that requirement, as well as other maritime claims the United States considers excessive.

Washington says it conducts these operations throughout the world, though Beijing remains sensitive about FONOPs, which it has labeled “provocations.”

The last such U.S. operation took place in May near the Paracel chain in the South China Sea, and the military has denied they specifically target China.

The South China Sea includes vital sea lanes through which about $3 trillion in global trade passes each year. Beyond Vietnam, Taiwan and the Philippines, Malaysia and Brunei also have overlapping claims.

“This FONOP challenged attempts by China, Taiwan and Vietnam to restrict navigation rights around the features they claim,” the U.S. defense official said. “Contrary to international law, these three claimants require prior permission or notification of transits through the territorial sea. No claimants were notified before this operation.”

Meanwhile, media reports said China had also canceled a high-level security meeting with U.S. Secretary of Defense Jim Mattis that had been planned for later this month.

The news, first reported Monday by The New York Times, said it was not clear if or when the meeting would be rescheduled or if was because of the broad range of disputes between Beijing and Washington on issues such as arms sales and military activity in the South China Sea and other waters around China.

China and the United States are also locked in a spiraling trade war that has seen them level increasingly severe rounds of tariffs on each other’s imports.

The U.S. Defense Department did not immediately respond to a request for comment on the cancelation.
Sunday’s FONOP also came just days after the U.S. sent nuclear-capable B-52 bombers through the strategic waterway twice during the past week.

Last week, the Pentagon said the B-52s had transited over the South China Sea as part of “regularly scheduled operations designed to enhance our interoperability with our partners and allies in the region.”

Asked if the latest FONOP was related to the training last week, the defense official said Sunday that there was “no relationship” to the B-52 flights, adding that the freedom of navigation operations happen “independent of other events.”

Analysts, however, said there was likely some coordination.

According to Collin Koh, a specialist in regional naval affairs at Singapore’s S. Rajaratnam School of International Studies, B-52 overflights in the South China Sea have become a more common occurrence in recent years, adding another layer to U.S. moves in the area.

“I won’t discount the possibility of some kind of coordination on this front,” he said. “To challenge the Chinese claim, and more broadly to signal continued U.S. security commitments to the region, it’s insufficient to rely on purely one aspect of military power.”

The Chinese government did not immediately respond to the latest FONOP, but did on Thursday assail the U.S. bomber flights.

“China’s principle and standpoint on the South China Sea are always clear,” Defense Ministry spokesman Ren Guoqiang said, according to state-run media. “China firmly opposes the U.S. military aircraft’s provocation in the South China Sea, and will take all necessary measures.”

Foreign Ministry spokesman Geng Shuang delivered a thinly veiled criticism of the U.S. the same day for using freedom of navigation and overflight as excuses to harm other countries’ sovereignty and security, disturbing regional peace and stability.

In late August, B-52s conducted similar training over the South China Sea. In addition to those exercises, the bombers integrated with the Yokosuka, Kanagawa Prefecture-based Ronald Reagan Carrier Strike Group in the area.

And in June, after two U.S. B-52s flew near disputed islands in the South China Sea, China’s Foreign Ministry said no military ships or aircraft could scare China away from its resolve to protect its territory.

For its part, China has also bolstered training and patrols in the waterway.

On Saturday, state-run media reported that the Chinese military had sent fighter planes and bombers to conduct live-fire exercises at a range in the South China Sea. The short report said that dozens of fighters and bombers from the People’s Liberation Army Naval Air Force had conducted the drills to test pilots’ assault, penetration and precision-strike capabilities at sea.

In comments carried Sunday by the official Xinhua News Agency, Chinese President Xi Jinping was quoted as saying that efforts to strengthen the military training and war preparedness of the armed forces and improve its capability to win wars must be bolstered.


----------



## 艹艹艹



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cochine

Truong Sa,


----------



## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

cochine said:


> *U.S. sends warship near man-made islets in South China Sea's Spratly chain*
> *BY JESSE JOHNSON*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The United States has sailed a warship near two of China’s man-made islands in the disputed South China Sea, the latest in a series of recent moves by the U.S. military in the strategic waterway and in the diplomatic arena amid rising tensions between Washington and Beijing.
> 
> The guided-missile destroyer USS Decatur on Sunday sailed within 12 nautical miles (22 km) of Gaven and Johnson reefs in the Spratly Islands as part of what the U.S. Navy calls “freedom of navigation operations” (FONOPs). The operations are meant to enforce the right of free passage in international waters under international law. The two islets are also claimed by Taiwan, Vietnam and the Philippines.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Both outposts are among seven in the Spratly chain that China has built up, with some transformed from so-called high-tide elevations entitled to 12 nautical mile territorial seas into garrisons with massive radar installations, scores of buildings and military-grade runways.
> 
> A U.S. defense official told The Japan Times that the Decatur conducted the freedom of navigation operation under the right of “innocent passage.”
> 
> International law permits foreign warships to transit a country’s territorial waters on the basis of innocent passage without seeking prior permission, and the Chinese Navy has exercised that right off Alaska, among other locations.
> 
> However, Beijing demands that foreign naval vessels seek its permission before transiting Chinese territorial waters. The U.S. Navy regularly conducts FONOPs to challenge that requirement, as well as other maritime claims the United States considers excessive.
> 
> Washington says it conducts these operations throughout the world, though Beijing remains sensitive about FONOPs, which it has labeled “provocations.”
> 
> The last such U.S. operation took place in May near the Paracel chain in the South China Sea, and the military has denied they specifically target China.
> 
> The South China Sea includes vital sea lanes through which about $3 trillion in global trade passes each year. Beyond Vietnam, Taiwan and the Philippines, Malaysia and Brunei also have overlapping claims.
> 
> “This FONOP challenged attempts by China, Taiwan and Vietnam to restrict navigation rights around the features they claim,” the U.S. defense official said. “Contrary to international law, these three claimants require prior permission or notification of transits through the territorial sea. No claimants were notified before this operation.”
> 
> Meanwhile, media reports said China had also canceled a high-level security meeting with U.S. Secretary of Defense Jim Mattis that had been planned for later this month.
> 
> The news, first reported Monday by The New York Times, said it was not clear if or when the meeting would be rescheduled or if was because of the broad range of disputes between Beijing and Washington on issues such as arms sales and military activity in the South China Sea and other waters around China.
> 
> China and the United States are also locked in a spiraling trade war that has seen them level increasingly severe rounds of tariffs on each other’s imports.
> 
> The U.S. Defense Department did not immediately respond to a request for comment on the cancelation.
> Sunday’s FONOP also came just days after the U.S. sent nuclear-capable B-52 bombers through the strategic waterway twice during the past week.
> 
> Last week, the Pentagon said the B-52s had transited over the South China Sea as part of “regularly scheduled operations designed to enhance our interoperability with our partners and allies in the region.”
> 
> Asked if the latest FONOP was related to the training last week, the defense official said Sunday that there was “no relationship” to the B-52 flights, adding that the freedom of navigation operations happen “independent of other events.”
> 
> Analysts, however, said there was likely some coordination.
> 
> According to Collin Koh, a specialist in regional naval affairs at Singapore’s S. Rajaratnam School of International Studies, B-52 overflights in the South China Sea have become a more common occurrence in recent years, adding another layer to U.S. moves in the area.
> 
> “I won’t discount the possibility of some kind of coordination on this front,” he said. “To challenge the Chinese claim, and more broadly to signal continued U.S. security commitments to the region, it’s insufficient to rely on purely one aspect of military power.”
> 
> The Chinese government did not immediately respond to the latest FONOP, but did on Thursday assail the U.S. bomber flights.
> 
> “China’s principle and standpoint on the South China Sea are always clear,” Defense Ministry spokesman Ren Guoqiang said, according to state-run media. “China firmly opposes the U.S. military aircraft’s provocation in the South China Sea, and will take all necessary measures.”
> 
> Foreign Ministry spokesman Geng Shuang delivered a thinly veiled criticism of the U.S. the same day for using freedom of navigation and overflight as excuses to harm other countries’ sovereignty and security, disturbing regional peace and stability.
> 
> In late August, B-52s conducted similar training over the South China Sea. In addition to those exercises, the bombers integrated with the Yokosuka, Kanagawa Prefecture-based Ronald Reagan Carrier Strike Group in the area.
> 
> And in June, after two U.S. B-52s flew near disputed islands in the South China Sea, China’s Foreign Ministry said no military ships or aircraft could scare China away from its resolve to protect its territory.
> 
> For its part, China has also bolstered training and patrols in the waterway.
> 
> On Saturday, state-run media reported that the Chinese military had sent fighter planes and bombers to conduct live-fire exercises at a range in the South China Sea. The short report said that dozens of fighters and bombers from the People’s Liberation Army Naval Air Force had conducted the drills to test pilots’ assault, penetration and precision-strike capabilities at sea.
> 
> In comments carried Sunday by the official Xinhua News Agency, Chinese President Xi Jinping was quoted as saying that efforts to strengthen the military training and war preparedness of the armed forces and improve its capability to win wars must be bolstered.


Wow ,for a second I thought it was Vn send ships!!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cochine

Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA said:


> Wow ,for a second I thought it was Vn send ships!!



China made on izlets, its fake Island. Occupation of China on this rocks is illegal.

This is warship of Vietnam.


----------



## Pepsi Cola

cochine said:


> China made on izlets, its fake Island. Occupation of China on this rocks is illegal.
> 
> This is warship of Vietnam.



It's just 'Rocks', so don't be so insecure...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viva_Viet

Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA said:


> 1)I am merely sending wikipedia source infos,
> 2)not like you little Viva_Viet, call me barking dog!!When the Vietnamese have nothing to say, they can only carry out personal attacks on others!
> Who is ruining the Far east section really?!
> Are you denying that you called me Chinese barking dog multiple times?
> 
> @waz please ban
> *Viva_Viet*
> this guy called and is still calling me barking dogs multiple times!


Mod pls ban this @Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA . he the first one keep calling others monkeys.

Chairman Xi, this guy support Fake news against CN Govt.Based on CN laws, he must get some punishment for posting and supporting Fake news.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/120-chinese-soldiers-land-in-venezuela-us-silent.611559/page-2

Like private credit scores, a person's social score can move up and down depending on their behavior. The exact methodology is a secret — but examples of infractions include bad driving, smoking in non-smoking zones, buying too many video games and *posting fake news online.*

https://www.businessinsider.com/china-social-credit-system-punishments-and-rewards-explained-2018-4

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cochine

Chinese Commie said:


> It's just 'Rocks', so don't be so insecure...



China signed in to UNCLOS 1982, China has to know what does the islets or rock on the sea means.


----------



## Viva_Viet

The position of "Dongfang 13-2 CEPB," platform is in China water, not disputed zone like in 2014.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viva_Viet

Goolge show the number of VN ships near Scarborough

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viva_Viet

Vietnam Coast Guard is entitled to operate outside the Vietnamese waters ( Google translate)
https://m.baomoi.com/canh-sat-bien-duoc-quyen-hoat-dong-ngoai-vung-bien-viet-nam/c/31293620.epi

From now on, VN guard ships can attack anyone we dislike at any time even outside VN waters

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## congtubl

Unilateral actions in East Vietnam Sea a threat to regional economic growth: EU




The European Union (EU) on Wednesday warned that a deteriorating maritime security environment caused by recent “unilateral actions” in the East Vietnam Sea represents a serious threat to the region’s economic growth.

“Unilateral actions during the past weeks in the [East Vietnam Sea] have resulted in mounting tensions and a deterioration of the maritime security environment which represents a serious threat to the peaceful economic development of the region,” EU spokesperson for foreign affairs and security policy Maja Kocijancic was quoted as saying in a statement posted on the European External Action Service’s website.

The statement came amid repeated infringing activities of a Chinese marine research vessel escorted by coast guard ships in Vietnam’s Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ) and Continental Shelf since July.

Kocijancic said all parties in the region must “exercise self-restraint, take concrete steps towards reverting to the status quo ante, refrain from militarizing the region and resolve disputes through peaceful means.''

Such actions must be done in accordance with international law, notably the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), she added.

The spokesperson proposed that the sides seek third-party assistance “in the form of mediation or arbitration” to facilitate the settlement of their respective claims if necessary.

“The EU will continue to fully support regional ASEAN-led processes, in order to further promote a rules-based regional and international order, to consolidate multilateral cooperation, as well as closer cooperation with third parties,” spokesperson Kocijancic continued.

ASEAN, or the Association of Southeast Asian Nations, is a political and socio-economic bloc consisting of ten member states, namely Brunei, Cambodia, Indonesia, Laos, Malaysia, Myanmar, the Philippines, Singapore, Thailand, and Vietnam.
Spokesperson Kocijancic said the EU is looking forward to a swift and transparent conclusion of the talks on an “effective, substantive and legally binding” Code of Conduct (COC) of parties in the East Vietnam Sea.

“The EU is committed to the legal order for the seas and oceans based upon international law, maritime security and cooperation, as well as the freedom of navigation and overflight, in the interest of all states,” the statement concluded.


The Vietnamese foreign ministry’s spokesperson Le Thi Thu Hang said on August 16 the Chinese survey ship Haiyang Dizhi 8 and its escorts had resumed their infringement of Vietnam’s EEZ and Continental Shelf from August 13.

The Chinese fleet had previously violated Vietnam’s EEZ and Continental Shelf in the southern area of the East Vietnam Sea from July 4 to August 8.

“This area lies entirely within the Vietnamese waters,” Hang said, underlining that Hanoi has sovereignty, sovereign rights and jurisdiction over the waters in the East Vietnam Sea, as established in the provisions of the 1982 UNCLOS.



Japan’s oil rig Hakuryu-5, which is in operation in the East Vietnam Sea. Photo: PetroVietnam" class="outer-img fancybox" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 1rem;">




_Japan’s oil rig Hakuryu-5, which is in operation in the East Vietnam Sea. Photo:_ PetroVietnam


The EU spokesperson’s statement came a day after Japanese Minister for Foreign Affairs Taro Kono said Tokyo also opposes any action that intensifies tensions in the East Vietnam Sea, according to _Vietnam News Agency_.

Kono said on Tuesday that the East Vietnam Sea is an important sea line for Japan and many other countries, and is directly related to stability and peace of the region.

He added that the international community, including Japan, is paying serious attention to the situation in the sea.

The foreign minister said he has raised concerns about the serious situation in the East Vietnam Sea after the recent East Asian Summit (EAS) Foreign Ministers’ Meeting in Bangkok, Thailand in early August.

FM Kono held that the international community should oppose any unilateral attempt to change the status quo, or any serious action with coercion by any country.

The top Japanese diplomat asked all the parties concerned to demilitarize facilities or institutions in the sea, stressing that any dispute must be solved according to international law, including the 1982 UNCLOS.

The countries should continue to emphasize the need to uphold the rule of law in the East Vietnam Sea, he stated.
https://tuoitrenews.vn/news/politic...eat-to-regional-economic-growth-eu/51118.html

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## congtubl

https://tuoitrenews.vn/news/politic...rom-vietnams-eez-continental-shelf/51253.html

Vietnam demands that China immediately withdraw the geological survey ship Haiyang Dizhi 8 and its escorts from its Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ) and Continental Shelf, the foreign ministry said on Thursday after confirming the Chinese ships have violated Vietnamese waters for the third time in two months.

The Chinese group of ships has since September 7 resumed infringement upon the Vietnamese waters, the foreign ministry’s spokesperson Le Thi Thu Hang told reporters in Hanoi.

Vietnam “resolutely opposes” this illegal action by China, Hang said.

The Haiyang Dizhi 8 first entered Vietnam's EEZ in the southern area of the East Vietnam Sea on July 3 and appeared to conduct a seismic survey. It left the area on August 7 and returned a week later escorted by Chinese coast guard vessels.

This is the third time since July the Chinese fleet has entered the area, which “lies entirely within the sovereignty and jurisdiction of Vietnam,” Hang said.

“The Haiyang group of ships has continued to seriously violate Vietnam’s sovereignty and EEZ,” the spokesperson added.

Vietnam requires that China immediately pull these ships from Vietnam’s EEZ and Continental Shelf as defined in the provisions of the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), Hang said.

Hanoi pressed the same demand during the previous incidents, having asked Beijing to respect Vietnam’s sovereignty, jurisdiction, rights and legitimate interests in the East Vietnam Sea.

Vietnamese authorities have continued to implement measures to enforce the country’s legitimate sovereignty, sovereign rights and jurisdiction in accordance with local and international laws, the spokesperson added.

Vietnam attaches great importance to peace, security and the rule of law in the East Vietnam Sea, and is willing to resolve disagreements through peaceful measures, she added.

Hanoi always values, and wishes to promote, friendly relations with Beijing in the interests of the two countries and peoples, as well as of peace, stability, and security in the region and the world, she said.

At the same time, Vietnam will resolutely and persistently protect its legitimate rights and interests, Hang underlined.

Vietnam calls on relevant countries and the international community to make active contributions to maintaining regional and global peace, stability and cooperation, including those in the East Vietnam Sea, the spokesperson said.

VCG, VRS... are always proteced EEZ of VIETNAM, CHINA GET OUT OF VIETNAM

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## congtubl



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## polanski

Chinese Navy's type 094 submarine in embarrassing incident in South China Sea 
https://www.globaldefensecorp.com/2...ine-in-embarrassing-south-china-sea-incident/

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Galactic Penguin SST

Only to avoid another Diaoyu Islands situation in the future, quick decisive action is necessary now.



> "The Universe is an ocean, the moon is the Diaoyu Islands, Mars is Huangyan Island. If we don't go there now even though we are capable of doing so, then we will be blamed by our descendants. If others go there, then they will take over, and you won't be able to go even if you want to. This is reason enough."
> - Ye Pejian, Head of China's Lunar Mission







https://archive.is/3kKgt/2cf187043e603d1c831f02b6a30a1f9961ec58aa.jpg ; https://archive.is/3kKgt/ff93adcd78cb2f563da475bc27895d4816d84523/scr.png 
▲ 1. China's space program and territoriality.


----------



## polanski

The Path to Insanity: South China Sea Explosion Explained! https://www.globaldefensecorp.com/2...insanity-south-china-sea-explosion-explained/


----------



## Beast

polanski said:


> The Path to Insanity: South China Sea Explosion Explained! https://www.globaldefensecorp.com/2...insanity-south-china-sea-explosion-explained/


Nice propangada. 

Sourgraped reaction is understandable for some country after they lose control inside nine dash line.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## samsara

polanski said:


> The Path to Insanity: South China Sea Explosion Explained! https://www.globaldefensecorp.com/2...insanity-south-china-sea-explosion-explained/


Why do you keep posting the pathetic Fake media carrying the unreliable news here? Try to get a better, more trustworthy source to affirm your whatsoever views  hahaha


----------



## polanski

For the first time ever, a PRC spy blow up his cover and defect to Australia. 
https://www.globaldefensecorp.com/2019/11/24/chinese-spy-risks-his-life-defect-to-australia/


----------



## polanski



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Beast

polanski said:


>


This guy is a well known scammer. Australia is so quick to jump in the yellow peril bandwagon without careful verification. Pathetic.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Bogeyman

Sharing the South China Sea and France's presence in Africa & Asia Pacific


----------



## polanski

The Shenyang J-15: “Garbage In, Garbage Out”: https://www.globaldefensecorp.com/2020/02/22/the-shenyang-j-15/


----------



## UMNOPutra




----------



## sinait

UMNOPutra said:


>


*CHINA SHOCKED*, HAHAHA   
*Coronavirus: Two US aircraft carriers out of action for a month ...*
*Apr 6th 2020*
*USS Theodore Roosevelt and USS Ronald Reagan are the only two US aircraft carriers in the Pacific; both have sailors who have tested positive to COVID-19*

Both US aircraft carriers in the Pacific are taken out of action for up to a MONTH after sailors get infected with coronavius - giving China an almost free hand in the region as Pentagon raises threat level to second highest setting
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8161181/Sailors-aircraft-carriers-Pacific-coronavius.html
.


----------



## cochine

riscol said:


> The sailors now have more leisure time to play with Saigon ladies



You are liar. They were not in Saigon. US sailors were effected by Chinese prostitute from Wuhan ...

https://www.dimsumdaily.hk/8-chines...on-sex-trafficking-ring-is-busted-in-florida/

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Balamir

Against Chinese hegemony, all communist capitalist authoritarian regimes are heading for an unnamed alliance.

Japan
S.Korea
Taiwan
Philippines
Vietnamese

This list will be even longer.

https://thediplomat.com/2020/04/new...hilippines-backs-vietnam-amid-china-standoff/

There is actually the fact of China under the Japan-Taiwan rapprochement, which seems to be the Covid19 solidarity.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1247779328793784322

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## flowerfan2020

Balamir said:


> Against Chinese hegemony, all communist capitalist authoritarian regimes are heading for an unnamed alliance.
> 
> Japan
> S.Korea
> Taiwan
> Philippines
> Vietnamese
> 
> This list will be even longer.
> 
> https://thediplomat.com/2020/04/new...hilippines-backs-vietnam-amid-china-standoff/
> 
> There is actually the fact of China under the Japan-Taiwan rapprochement, which seems to be the Covid19 solidarity.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1247779328793784322


Don't naive. Japan and S. Korean is not related to S. China sea. Philippine has very good relationship with China but only Vietnam in your list. For the worst, even if they are what you called allies still no match to China today.


----------



## cochine

flowerfan2020 said:


> Don't naive. Japan and S. Korean is not related to S. China sea. Philippine has very good relationship with China but only Vietnam in your list. For the worst, even if they are what you called allies still no match to China today.




Phillippine will wake up ...

The Department of Foreign Affairs (DFA), in a statement, has expresses deep concern over the reported sinking of a Vietnamese fishing vessel in the South China Sea on April 3.

“Our own similar experience revealed how much trust in a friendship is lost by it; and how much trust was created by Vietnam’s humanitarian act of directly saving the lives of our Filipino fishermen. We have not stopped and will not stop thanking Vietnam. It is with that in mind that we issue this statement of solidarity,” the DFA said.

https://www.mintfo.com/news/phl-con...rSuuE6q_yQBajTcWT_idhTV7vTl4kwdNsaJ8B0Msbb8qc


----------



## flowerfan2020

cochine said:


> Phillippine will wake up ...
> 
> The Department of Foreign Affairs (DFA), in a statement, has expresses deep concern over the reported sinking of a Vietnamese fishing vessel in the South China Sea on April 3.
> 
> “Our own similar experience revealed how much trust in a friendship is lost by it; and how much trust was created by Vietnam’s humanitarian act of directly saving the lives of our Filipino fishermen. We have not stopped and will not stop thanking Vietnam. It is with that in mind that we issue this statement of solidarity,” the DFA said.
> 
> https://www.mintfo.com/news/phl-con...rSuuE6q_yQBajTcWT_idhTV7vTl4kwdNsaJ8B0Msbb8qc


Philippine already waked up but only Vietnam. Soon Vietnam will in Chaos because your economy will collapse in this year.


----------



## cochine

flowerfan2020 said:


> Philippine already waked up but only Vietnam. Soon Vietnam will in Chaos because your economy will collapse in this year.



Pynoy people is waked up ...


----------



## flowerfan2020

cochine said:


> Pynoy people is waked up ...


Like I said, Philippine finally waked up now after *Rodrigo Duterte became president of Philippine. 
https://www.scmp.com/news/asia/sout...ing-philippines-province-china-appears-manila*


----------



## cochine

flowerfan2020 said:


> View attachment 622614
> 
> Like I said, Philippine finally waked up now after *Rodrigo Duterte became president of Philippine.
> https://www.scmp.com/news/asia/sout...ing-philippines-province-china-appears-manila*



Its slogan to yoker, blaming on Rodrige, next term rodrigo Durtete (he is Hua chinese in origin) will be loser.

US set to kick off first-ever maritime exercise with ASEAN members in South China Sea

*



*

The crew of Philippine navy vessel BRP Ramon Alcaraz bid farewell to the USS Blue Ridge in the South China Sea, March 19, 2019. The Ramon Alcaraz is among the ships slated to participate in the inaugural ASEAN-U.S. maritime exercise.

ADAM THOMAS/U.S. NAVY

https://www.stripes.com/news/pacifi...ith-asean-members-in-south-china-sea-1.596553


----------



## flowerfan2020

cochine said:


> Its slogan to yoker, blaming on Rodrige, next term rodrigo Durtete (he is Hua chinese in origin) will be loser.
> 
> US set to kick off first-ever maritime exercise with ASEAN members in South China Sea
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> The crew of Philippine navy vessel BRP Ramon Alcaraz bid farewell to the USS Blue Ridge in the South China Sea, March 19, 2019. The Ramon Alcaraz is among the ships slated to participate in the inaugural ASEAN-U.S. maritime exercise.
> 
> ADAM THOMAS/U.S. NAVY
> 
> https://www.stripes.com/news/pacifi...ith-asean-members-in-south-china-sea-1.596553


Have you ever heard the fox and tiger story? Fox hiding behind the tiger though it is safe but unit one day he couldn't find the tiger behind it. Now, 4 U.S aircraft carrier were down because of the virus plus they redrawing all their troop back to their country. You still believed they can help Vietnam?


----------



## Balamir

flowerfan2020 said:


> Don't naive. Japan and S. Korean is not related to S. China sea. Philippine has very good relationship with China but only Vietnam in your list. For the worst, even if they are what you called allies still no match to China today.


Now calm down, I understand you're fussy. Read again what I wrote. I am talking about the alliance against the Chinese hegemony, not the South China Sea alliance. In addition, if China reigns in the South China Sea, Japan and S. Korea know that it will be their turn. However, Japan is not like the people of Hong Kong. It is a real competitor for China.

Only the Philippines will not wake up, Hong Kong, East Turkestan, Tibet will wake up. China should be worried about the alliance outside, but should be afraid of the awakening that occurs inside.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## flowerfan2020

Balamir said:


> Now calm down, I understand you're fussy. Read again what I wrote. I am talking about the alliance against the Chinese hegemony, not the South China Sea alliance. In addition, if China reigns in the South China Sea, Japan and S. Korea know that it will be their turn. However, Japan is not like the people of Hong Kong. It is a real competitor for China.
> 
> Only the Philippines will not wake up, Hong Kong, East Turkestan, Tibet will wake up. China should be worried about the alliance outside, but should be afraid of the awakening that occurs inside.


Yes, I agreed China always more careful about inside then outside but definitely not HK, E.Turkestan or Tibet. Your point proving you really not understand China.


----------



## Viva_Viet

Balamir said:


> Now calm down, I understand you're fussy. Read again what I wrote. I am talking about the alliance against the Chinese hegemony, not the South China Sea alliance. In addition, if China reigns in the South China Sea, Japan and S. Korea know that it will be their turn. However, Japan is not like the people of Hong Kong. It is a real competitor for China.
> 
> Only the Philippines will not wake up, Hong Kong, East Turkestan, Tibet will wake up. China should be worried about the alliance outside, but should be afraid of the awakening that occurs inside.


CN reign in SCS ( east VN sea) ?? By their useless, undiscipline and coward PLAN ? 

Haha. Thanks for ur support bro, but PLAN is usless and coward, thats why CN only control 10-12 % of SCS ( east VN sea) while VN control 60-65%. Thats the reason why US-JP-SK supported CN against VN in 1978.




Spratly islands map showing occupied features marked with the flags of countries occupying them. 


 Philippines 


 Republic of China (Taiwan) 


 Vietnam 


 Malaysia 


 People's Republic of China

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cochine

flowerfan2020 said:


> Have you ever heard the fox and tiger story? Fox hiding behind the tiger though it is safe but unit one day he couldn't find the tiger behind it. Now, 4 U.S aircraft carrier were down because of the virus plus they redrawing all their troop back to their country. You still believed they can help Vietnam?



I do know only one about tiger story from China, Mao said that USA is paper tiger, but at the end of cold war China is bowed your head before your new master, the Uncle Sam.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## flowerfan2020

cochine said:


> I do know only one about tiger story from China, Mao said that USA is paper tiger, but at the end of cold war China is bowed your head before your new master, the Uncle Sam.
> 
> View attachment 622634





cochine said:


> I do know only one about tiger story from China, Mao said that USA is paper tiger, but at the end of cold war China is bowed your head before your new master, the Uncle Sam.
> 
> View attachment 622634


So I saw two tigers was shaking hands and humble each other. The monkey was feeling helpless and jump up and down.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## cochine

flowerfan2020 said:


> So I saw two tigers was shaking hands and humble each other. The monkey was feeling helpless and jump up and down.



Chinoa bowed her head before his new master and looked down to kiss boots of his master ...


----------



## SEAISI

cochine said:


> Chinoa bowed her head before his new master and looked down to kiss boots of his master ...


They are whispering to each other sharing secrets of agent orange, which is to be used on...you know who

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## flowerfan2020

cochine said:


> Chinoa bowed her head before his new master and looked down to kiss boots of his master ...


Self-comfort and delusion are common mental issue for the Viets in here.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cochine

SEAISI said:


> They are whispering to each other sharing secrets of agent orange, which is to be used on...you know who





flowerfan2020 said:


> Self-comfort and delusion are common mental issue for the Viets in here.



Don't lying more. Check again the picture above, kids. China is bowing her head down before the master, and American is laughing...


----------



## flowerfan2020

cochine said:


> Don't lying more. Check again the picture above, kids. China is bowing her head down before the master, and American is laughing...


Now what do you see Old men?


----------



## cochine

flowerfan2020 said:


> Now what do you see Old men?
> View attachment 622888
> View attachment 622889



Pictures is photoshop.

same more pictures disclosed true inferior mentality of Chinese ...


----------



## flowerfan2020

cochine said:


> Pictures is photoshop.
> 
> same more pictures disclosed true inferior mentality of Chinese ...


Do you still have self-respect? Your Viet just showing yourself such a idiot.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cochine

flowerfan2020 said:


> Do you still have self-respect? Your Viet just showing yourself such a idiot.



The idiot is the man, who said "USA is paper tiger", but next day he kneed before Uncle Sam like his papa.


----------



## flowerfan2020

cochine said:


> The idiot is the man, who said "USA is paper tiger", but next day he kneed before Uncle Sam like his papa.


Mao proved he was right.


----------



## cochine

flowerfan2020 said:


> Mao proved he was right.
> View attachment 623289



Its photoshop.

check here again, that the idiot slave did before his master in peking 1972


----------



## Viet

flowerfan2020 said:


> Have you ever heard the fox and tiger story? Fox hiding behind the tiger though it is safe but unit one day he couldn't find the tiger behind it. Now, 4 U.S aircraft carrier were down because of the virus plus they redrawing all their troop back to their country. You still believed they can help Vietnam?


No I haven’t. Does the story originate in Wuhan?


----------



## flowerfan2020

cochine said:


> Its photoshop.
> 
> check here again, that the idiot slave did before his master in peking 1972
> 
> View attachment 623397


That's the best you got?



Viet said:


> No I haven’t. Does the story originate in Wuhan?


So is this called Jungle monkey play dumb?


----------



## cochine

flowerfan2020 said:


> That's the best you got?



The photo posted, is showed clearly that in 1972 your leader has got the new job, to feed Uncle Sam to eat in restaurant in Peking ...


----------



## flowerfan2020

cochine said:


> The photo posted, is showed clearly that in 1972 your leader has got the new job, to feed Uncle Sam to eat in restaurant in Peking ...


You dame right. We feed Uncle Sam, tells China is the boss.


----------



## cochine

flowerfan2020 said:


> You dame right. We feed Uncle Sam, tells China is the boss.


----------



## polanski

The Peoples Liberation Army (PLA) Has Conducted Low Yield Nuclear Tests: https://www.globaldefensecorp.com/2...my-pla-has-conducted-low-yield-nuclear-tests/


----------



## Viet

flowerfan2020 said:


> That's the best you got?
> 
> 
> So is this called Jungle monkey play dumb?


Monkey is smarter than dog.

Proven by scientists


----------



## SEAISI

polanski said:


> The Peoples Liberation Army (PLA) Has Conducted Low Yield Nuclear Tests: https://www.globaldefensecorp.com/2...my-pla-has-conducted-low-yield-nuclear-tests/



Getting ready to nuke viettard land?


----------



## Viet

SEAISI said:


> Getting ready to nuke viettard land?


Beware pls don’t nuke yourself by accident!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## flowerfan2020

Viet said:


> Monkey is smarter than dog.
> 
> Proven by scientists


Ok, you think you are just a little smart than dog.


----------



## Viet

flowerfan2020 said:


> Ok, you think you are just a little smart than dog.


I haven’t said I think. I say dog is dumber than monkey. That is scientifically proven. pls learn to read my posts you illiterate!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## polanski

Fast and furious: China’s shipbuilding at a mammoth scale: https://www.globaldefensecorp.com/2020/04/30/fast-and-furious-chinas-warship-built-in-months/


----------



## cochine

hina's first big-deck amphibious assault ship, a huge vessel that was built in a miraculously short amount of time, caught fire on Saturday, April 11th, 2020. Photos and video showing the ship billowing large clouds of black smoke hit Chinese social media earlier in the day. The warship, which is the first of the new Type 075 class, was resting alongside the pier at its birthplace, Hudong–Zhonghua Shipbuilding in Shanghai, when the blaze broke out. 







https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...-massive-new-type-075-amphibious-assault-ship

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## SEAISI

cochine said:


> hina's first big-deck amphibious assault ship, a huge vessel that was built in a miraculously short amount of time, caught fire on Saturday, April 11th, 2020. Photos and video showing the ship billowing large clouds of black smoke hit Chinese social media earlier in the day. The warship, which is the first of the new Type 075 class, was resting alongside the pier at its birthplace, Hudong–Zhonghua Shipbuilding in Shanghai, when the blaze broke out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...-massive-new-type-075-amphibious-assault-ship



Less than 3 weeks later, another one appeared to be near completion. These ships can carry a lot of viet brides back to China

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## SEAISI

cochine said:


> First bring back Nearly 100 women, Chinese nationals, were rescued at an alleged prostitution den that is posing as a karaoke bar in Makati City (Phil) on Tuesday .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://cnnphilippines.com/news/201...n-app-powered-prostitution-den-in-Makati.html



First stop viettard land. Buy 1 get 1 free bride 

Next stop phillipines to offload those brides to the karaoke


----------



## flowerfan2020

cochine said:


> Its dream of Ah Q China, stop export Chinese girls to everywhere in the world. .
> 
> https://www.scmp.com/news/world/article/1639045/egyptian-denies-rape-murder-chinese-prostitute-paris


You such a low life Viet.


----------



## Mr Happy

SinoChallenger said:


> June 11 is victory for China day. Thanks to our new Supreme Leader Xi Jinping, Beijing grew some balls and wielded the PLA like a mighty sword to decapitate our enemies.
> 
> There is enough oil and gas in the South China Sea to make every single Chinese as rich as Saudi or Brunei citizens! Now nobody can stop us from taking our spoils of war. Of course, we can share with our allies, but never with dirty nations like Vietnam and Philippines.



Need to work on quality though. 
The best 2 military powers are USA and Russia.


----------



## polanski

China’s long-range Xian H-20 stealth bomber could make its debut at Zhuhai air show: https://www.globaldefensecorp.com/2...tealth-bomber-could-make-its-debut-this-year/


----------



## Daniel808

*China's Navy Air Force (PLAN-AF) doing ASW (Anti Submarine Warfare) Patrol Daily Mission in South China Sea
















 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1258801820614438912*
The aircraft is Y-8 GX6 Maritime Patrol & Anti Submarine Warfare (MPA/ASW)
*




*
Guardian of the Sea

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cochine

*Indonesia Protests China Coast Guard Incursions*




China Coast Guard hull number 3303 defending a Chinese-flagged fishing vessel from Indonesian law enforcement, June 17, 2019 (Indonesian Navy Western Region Command)
BY *THE MARITIME EXECUTIVE *01-01-2020 08:36:57



Indonesia's foreign ministry has filed a formal complaint with China over alleged violations of the Indonesian EEZ in the vicinity of the Natuna Islands, one of the many regional flash points in the conflict over sovereignty in the South China Sea. 

China claims almost all of the South China Sea based on historical Chinese activity in the region, not on international law. The claim's boundaries are defined loosely by Beijing's "nine-dash line" chart, and they extend hundreds of miles south of the recognized Chinese EEZ boundary. UNCLOS restricts EEZ claims to 200 nm from the nation's own shores. 






In a statement issued January 1, the Indonesian Ministry of Foreign Affairs noted that China's historically-based claims to fishing rights inside of other nations' EEZs are not supported by UNCLOS, and that these claims have already been rejected by the Permanent Court of Arbitration in the Hague. 

The ministry also took the unusual step of rejecting China's use of the neutral term "the relevant waters" to refer to Indonesia's EEZ. The phrase follows a format often used by the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs when discussing disputes ("the relevant area," "the relevant individual," "the relevant party," etc.). "Indonesia rejects the term the 'relevant waters' claimed by [China] because this term is unknown and is incompatible with UNCLOS 1982," the ministry wrote. 

Further, Indonesia rejected the notion that it has anything to discuss with China about its boundaries. "Based on UNCLOS 1982, Indonesia does not have overlapping claims with the PRC so that it is not relevant to have any dialogue on maritime boundary delimitation," the ministry declared.

The statement follows a series of unauthorized incursions by Chinese fishing boats and China Coast Guard escort vessels into Indonesian waters. More than 50 Chinese fishing vessels and government ships entered the Indonesian EEZ on December 24, according to Indonesia's Maritime Security Agency. “An interagency meeting at the Foreign Ministry confirmed that there were violations in the Indonesian EEZ, including IUU fishing activities and violations of sovereignty by China’s Coast Guard in Natuna waters,” the ministry wrote Monday. 

In response, the ministry summoned China's ambassador to Jakarta, Xiao Qian, to protest the incursions and to communicate that Indonesia will not recognize the Chinese nine-dash line claim. 

According to Chinese foreign ministry spokesman Geng Shuang, the presence of China Coast Guard vessels is normal and expected in the area. "China has historical rights in the South China Sea. Chinese fishermen have long been engaging in fishery activities in relevant waters near the [Chinese-claimed Spratly Islands], which has all along been legal and legitimate. The China Coast Guard were performing their duty by carrying out routine patrol to maintain maritime order and protect our people's legitimate rights and interests in the relevant waters," Shuang said at a press conference Tuesday. The nearest of the Spratly Islands is located about 370 nm to the northeast of the Natuna Islands.

The incursions were observed on commercial AIS tracking platforms, and video of the encounters between Indonesian forces and the China Coast Guard has been released to Indonesian television outlets (below). 




Ryan Martinson@rdmartinson88
· Dec 28, 2019

Update (28 December): China Coast Guard ships are still operating in these waters. Probably there escorting Chinese fishing vessels. https://twitter.com/rdmartinson88/status/1208594192030679042 …




Ryan Martinson@rdmartinson88

An unusual congregation of China Coast Guard ships in the southern part of the South China Sea. Wonder what’s going on.








Imam Prakoso@imamp_tweet

this is what happened on the water





83
6:40 AM - Dec 31, 2019
Twitter Ads info and privacy

87 people are talking about this



The increase in Chinese incursions followed shortly after the departure of Indonesia's previous fisheries minister, Susi Pudjiastuti, who raised her ministry's profile by confiscating and destroying hundreds of unlicensed foreign fishing vessels. Pudjiastuti was not selected to retain her post in the new administration of Indonesian president Joko "Jokowi" Widodo, who won re-election in early 2019.


----------



## Stranagor



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Ashraf. M

_Beijing's territorial claims_


----------



## Viva_Viet

Say Hello to VN guard ships fleet

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## sword1947

cochine said:


> hina's first big-deck amphibious assault ship, a huge vessel that was built in a miraculously short amount of time, caught fire on Saturday, April 11th, 2020. Photos and video showing the ship billowing large clouds of black smoke hit Chinese social media earlier in the day. The warship, which is the first of the new Type 075 class, was resting alongside the pier at its birthplace, Hudong–Zhonghua Shipbuilding in Shanghai, when the blaze broke out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...-massive-new-type-075-amphibious-assault-ship


your information is too late


----------



## cochine

sword1947 said:


> your information is too late



Its china ship no safe, it could be happen again and again.


----------



## sword1947

cochine said:


> Its china ship no safe, it could be happen again and again.


when and where is your "happen again and again"? in your day dream?


----------



## cochine

sword1947 said:


> when and where is your "happen again and again"? in your day dream?



Unsafety is very popular problem in ship building in China, not only happen at the ships. Jumbo cran collapsed at the Hudong-Zhonghua Shipbuilding in Pudong China in December 10, 2009.







The first-in-class amphibious vessel, which was launched 6 months ago, is currently at fitting out stage at CSSC’s Hudong-Zhonghua shipyard in Shanghai.







https://www.google.com.vn/url?sa=i&url=https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2020/04/chinas-1st-type-075-lhd-caught-on-fire-during-fitting-out/&psig=AOvVaw22hhOmUEIDJZ9Vnz2bQ0eO&ust=1592991100309000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=2ahUKEwjU4sq20JfqAhU7zYsBHYVxA1cQr4kDegUIARDmAQ

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## flowerfan2020

Viva_Viet said:


> View attachment 643633
> 
> 
> Say Hello to VN guard ships fleet


Hello Vietnam coast guard. You only have 7 ships? Can you show me more?



cochine said:


> Unsafety is very popular problem in ship building in China, not only happen at the ships. Jumbo cran collapsed at the Hudong-Zhonghua Shipbuilding in Pudong China in December 10, 2009.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The first-in-class amphibious vessel, which was launched 6 months ago, is currently at fitting out stage at CSSC’s Hudong-Zhonghua shipyard in Shanghai.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.google.com.vn/url?sa=i&url=https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2020/04/chinas-1st-type-075-lhd-caught-on-fire-during-fitting-out/&psig=AOvVaw22hhOmUEIDJZ9Vnz2bQ0eO&ust=1592991100309000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=2ahUKEwjU4sq20JfqAhU7zYsBHYVxA1cQr4kDegUIARDmAQ


You only know how to trolling? Can you provide any achievement of Viet navy do comparing to the Chinese Navy?


----------



## IblinI

@cochine 
US never failed to slap the face on your kind for us.


----------



## Globenim

cochine said:


> Unsafety is very popular problem in ship building in China, not only happen at the ships. Jumbo cran collapsed at the Hudong-Zhonghua Shipbuilding in Pudong China in December 10, 2009.


Scraping the searchengines for an accident from over 10 years ago. Really proving your point about all those purported troubles and safety issues in one of the bussiest warfs in the entire world.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cochine

IblinI said:


> @cochine
> US never failed to slap the face on your kind for us.



what do you mean ? wasnt China is lapdog og US in the past, from 1969 ?


----------



## IblinI

cochine said:


> what do you mean ? wasnt China is lapdog og US in the past, from 1969 ?


You need to keep yourself updated, the US assult carrier is still burning as we speak.


----------



## cochine

IblinI said:


> You need to keep yourself updated, the US assult carrier is still burning as we speak.



Mentality of Chinese leader dosen't changed, your leader again ask help from American Kissinger like what China did in 1969.


----------



## IblinI

cochine said:


> Mentality of Chinese leader dosen't changed, your leader again ask help from American Kissinger like what China did in 1969.
> 
> 
> View attachment 650567


Trying to divert topic?How you jumping up and down like a clown even when Type 075's fire put down after half hour,now it's US turn,the ship is melting after 12 hrs burning, what do you say.


----------



## cochine

IblinI said:


> Trying to divert topic?How you jumping up and down like a clown even when Type 075's fire put down after half hour,now it's US turn,the ship is melting after 12 hrs burning, what do you say.



075 has got fire. Its disclosed that China ship is not good. As I said above, the fire could be repeat again and again ...


----------



## IblinI

cochine said:


> 075 has got fire. Its disclosed that China ship is not good. As I said above, the fire could be repeat again and again ...


Take your prayer and enjoy the US show,it is not "could" but still burning now,because you may never see one ship that size in viet navy.


----------



## cochine

IblinI said:


> Take your prayer and enjoy the US show,it is not "could" but still burning now,because you may never see one ship that size in viet navy.



both of you US and China ships will burning time to time. Both of you were enemy to us from cold war. do understand this matter ... ?


----------



## Figaro

cochine said:


> Unsafety is very popular problem in ship building in China, not only happen at the ships. Jumbo cran collapsed at the Hudong-Zhonghua Shipbuilding in Pudong China in December 10, 2009.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The first-in-class amphibious vessel, which was launched 6 months ago, is currently at fitting out stage at CSSC’s Hudong-Zhonghua shipyard in Shanghai.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.google.com.vn/url?sa=i&url=https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2020/04/chinas-1st-type-075-lhd-caught-on-fire-during-fitting-out/&psig=AOvVaw22hhOmUEIDJZ9Vnz2bQ0eO&ust=1592991100309000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=2ahUKEwjU4sq20JfqAhU7zYsBHYVxA1cQr4kDegUIARDmAQ


Come on ... you are using two accidents, the latter one being a minor fire, to say that the Chinese shipbuilding industry is unsafe. This is a classic cherry picking fallacy. Just today a US LHD caught fire in a similar fashion to that in the second picture you posted. Are we to assume that American shipyards are also "unsafe"?


----------



## cochine

Figaro said:


> Come on ... you are using two accidents, the latter one being a minor fire, to say that the Chinese shipbuilding industry is unsafe. This is a classic cherry picking fallacy. Just today a US LHD caught fire in a similar fashion to that in the second picture you posted. Are we to assume that American shipyards are also "unsafe"?



Do you know what Mao had said in beginning of violation in China "small fire could destroyed all the big plan" ?

small fire can destroyed the big fake ship made in China, same what your leader had forecasted long time ago.


----------



## Viva_Viet

IblinI said:


> You need to keep yourself updated, the US assult carrier is still burning as we speak.


Mongol empire lost thousand ships and they still defeated and annexed CN 100 years.

Russia lost thousand ships and they still took away Vladivostok aka outer Manchurian for good.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## congtubl

The line of Vietnam-Malay (Yellow star); Vietnam-Indo (Green Note)


This is GPS: INDO holding 3 VIETNAMESE SHIPS.

The indo government should negotiate with Vietnam on this demarcation line, Avoid cases occurring in the future.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## samsara

*Reality Check of Nine Allegations on the South China Sea*

*CGTN (2020-09-02)*

_Recently, the U.S. side announced a policy statement regarding its position on maritime claims in the SOUTH CHINA SEA and smeared China on many occasions. It is important that we list *U.S. false allegations* vis-à-vis the facts to *debunk the falsehoods* and let people know the truth._

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## samsara

*UPDATE: Chinese diplomat’s election to sea tribunal with high count of votes reflects international recognition: FM*

By Xu Keyue and Cui Fandi | GLOBAL TIMES (2020.08.25)

CHINESE AMBASSADOR TO HUNGARY Duan Jielong was on Monday (8/24) elected as a member of the *International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea with a high count of votes*, which reflected the international community's recognition of China's claims and actions on maritime issues and was a "slap in the face" of the United States, as the country HAD NOT ACCEPTED the law but instead pointed its finger at and smeared China's moves.

Duan is one of the six to have been elected in the FIRST ROUND of voting by the States Parties to the *UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) to become a judge settling maritime disputes*, the Xinhua News Agency reported Monday. Other members are David J. Attard of Malta, Ida Caracciolo of Italy, Maria Teresa Infante Caffi of Chile, Maurice Kengne Kamga of Cameroon and Markiyan Kulyk of Ukraine. One of the tribunal seats has yet to be filled and a second round of restrictive voting will be held on Tuesday, reports said. The contenders will be Kathy-Ann Brown of Jamaica and Rodrigo Fernandes More of Brazil.

THE TRIBUNAL IS AN INTERGOVERNMENTAL BODY set up by UNCLOS and has 21 judges who hold nine-year terms. A third of the members are replaced every three years. The election of Duan once again shows China's voice is reaching further into the international community, Li Haidong, a professor at the Institute of International Relations of the China Foreign Affairs University, told the Global Times on Tuesday.

"China's voice is gaining more recognition and support, which proves that the international community is recognizing China's important role given its past efforts," Li Haidong noted. "As the world's major powers have vast differences regarding perception of maritime rights, China's gradual prominence will help bring consensus in future disputes."

THE UNITED STATES, WHICH HAS NO RIGHT TO VOTE ON THE MATTER, *has been seeking to stop China after Duan was nominated as a candidate*, arguing that "Beijing has flouted international sea laws in the disputed South China Sea," US media outlet CNBC reported on August 3.

Li Haidong warned the United States not to overestimate its ability to do evil in the international community. "This is NO LONGER the era of Western-led colonialism, as countries are awakening their international consciousness," he said.

Shen Yi, a professor of international politics at Fudan University in Shanghai, told the Global Times that United States' failure to intervene shows that the international influence of US hegemony is steadily declining, which is a foreseeable trend for the future. In contrast, China's international influence is growing "as a result of past contributions."

US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo recently attempted to smear China by accusing it of seeing the South China Sea as its "maritime empire." In a tweet in late April, Pompeo said, "The South China Sea is not China's maritime empire" and urged "free nations" to unite to prevent China from taking "more territory."

*THE US, WHICH IS THOUSANDS OF MILES FROM THE SOUTH CHINA SEA, has sought to dictate regional affairs, repeatedly sending aircraft carriers and warplanes to the waters to assert its hegemony. The US has also constantly tried to stir up the situation regarding South China Sea disputes.*

By contrast, China has been committed to promoting the peaceful settlement of disputes with other South China Sea claimants in the region, said analysts. Thanks to the joint efforts of the relevant parties, negotiations on the CODE OF CONDUCT on the South China Sea are progressing steadily, the analysts noted.

Li Haidong warned the US to reflect on its responsibilities as a great power, considering its actions over the past few decades.

Since the establishment of the tribunal in 1996, three Chinese have served as judges: Zhao Lihai (1996-2000), Xu Guangjian (2001-07) and Gao Zhiguo (2008-20).






UPDATE: Chinese diplomat’s election to sea tribunal with high count of votes reflects intl recognition: FM - Global Times







www.globaltimes.cn

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cochine

Map of Vietnam with Paracels and Spratly.


----------



## cochine

samsara said:


> *UPDATE: Chinese diplomat’s election to sea tribunal with high count of votes reflects international recognition: FM*
> 
> By Xu Keyue and Cui Fandi | GLOBAL TIMES (2020.08.25)
> 
> CHINESE AMBASSADOR TO HUNGARY Duan Jielong was on Monday (8/24) elected as a member of the *International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea with a high count of votes*, which reflected the international community's recognition of China's claims and actions on maritime issues and was a "slap in the face" of the United States, as the country HAD NOT ACCEPTED the law but instead pointed its finger at and smeared China's moves.
> 
> Duan is one of the six to have been elected in the FIRST ROUND of voting by the States Parties to the *UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) to become a judge settling maritime disputes*, the Xinhua News Agency reported Monday. Other members are David J. Attard of Malta, Ida Caracciolo of Italy, Maria Teresa Infante Caffi of Chile, Maurice Kengne Kamga of Cameroon and Markiyan Kulyk of Ukraine. One of the tribunal seats has yet to be filled and a second round of restrictive voting will be held on Tuesday, reports said. The contenders will be Kathy-Ann Brown of Jamaica and Rodrigo Fernandes More of Brazil.
> 
> THE TRIBUNAL IS AN INTERGOVERNMENTAL BODY set up by UNCLOS and has 21 judges who hold nine-year terms. A third of the members are replaced every three years. The election of Duan once again shows China's voice is reaching further into the international community, Li Haidong, a professor at the Institute of International Relations of the China Foreign Affairs University, told the Global Times on Tuesday.
> 
> "China's voice is gaining more recognition and support, which proves that the international community is recognizing China's important role given its past efforts," Li Haidong noted. "As the world's major powers have vast differences regarding perception of maritime rights, China's gradual prominence will help bring consensus in future disputes."
> 
> THE UNITED STATES, WHICH HAS NO RIGHT TO VOTE ON THE MATTER, *has been seeking to stop China after Duan was nominated as a candidate*, arguing that "Beijing has flouted international sea laws in the disputed South China Sea," US media outlet CNBC reported on August 3.
> 
> Li Haidong warned the United States not to overestimate its ability to do evil in the international community. "This is NO LONGER the era of Western-led colonialism, as countries are awakening their international consciousness," he said.
> 
> Shen Yi, a professor of international politics at Fudan University in Shanghai, told the Global Times that United States' failure to intervene shows that the international influence of US hegemony is steadily declining, which is a foreseeable trend for the future. In contrast, China's international influence is growing "as a result of past contributions."
> 
> US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo recently attempted to smear China by accusing it of seeing the South China Sea as its "maritime empire." In a tweet in late April, Pompeo said, "The South China Sea is not China's maritime empire" and urged "free nations" to unite to prevent China from taking "more territory."
> 
> *THE US, WHICH IS THOUSANDS OF MILES FROM THE SOUTH CHINA SEA, has sought to dictate regional affairs, repeatedly sending aircraft carriers and warplanes to the waters to assert its hegemony. The US has also constantly tried to stir up the situation regarding South China Sea disputes.*
> 
> By contrast, China has been committed to promoting the peaceful settlement of disputes with other South China Sea claimants in the region, said analysts. Thanks to the joint efforts of the relevant parties, negotiations on the CODE OF CONDUCT on the South China Sea are progressing steadily, the analysts noted.
> 
> Li Haidong warned the US to reflect on its responsibilities as a great power, considering its actions over the past few decades.
> 
> Since the establishment of the tribunal in 1996, three Chinese have served as judges: Zhao Lihai (1996-2000), Xu Guangjian (2001-07) and Gao Zhiguo (2008-20).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UPDATE: Chinese diplomat’s election to sea tribunal with high count of votes reflects intl recognition: FM - Global Times
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.globaltimes.cn



So, china has to accept UNCLOS decision on the dispute with Philippine 4 year ago.


----------



## Indos




----------

